#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-01
<madnick> Unit193: do you want to test it?
<madnick> it would be great help
<Unit193> The point is that I'm not sure if it will even work
<Unit193> It takes way too many reboots to get this working and when I do, I only reboot for power outages (And now it's on an old UPS)
<madnick> oh
<Unit193> I'll still try if I can get a mostly working Oneiric install
<GridCube> charlie-tca, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor
<charlie-tca> GridCube: thank you
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-08 | Oneiric images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<charlie-tca> Okay, got the meeting minutes out. Good night
<astraljava> madnick: If you need something to be tested on real hardware, I should get most of my machines up and running this evening (meaning in 6 to 7 hours)
<madnick> astraljava: sweet :) would be great
<astraljava> madnick: Okay, gonna have to push it forward a few hours. I had forgotten jussi wants us to go to a soccer game tonight. But it's only some 3 hours delay, so we'll talk again in... UTC 1800-1900?
<madnick> okay :>
<knome> astraljava, lol, you go watching a game with leather ball(s) with jussi?
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png
<madnick> That sorta keeps the same theme all the way to the desktop :P
<madnick> plymouth->lightdm->user session
<astraljava> knome: Leather balls is what it's all about. Seriously, when you think about it. That's where life begins. :D
<madnick> Is it a bug that you must first set properities of the screenshot utility for the panel, then click it?
<madnick> !bug help
<charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit : found a few more mb to save in Xubuntu. We are installing gwibber and gwibber-service by default. This is both images and updates.
<madnick> I don't think Im gonna file a bug report, it might be a "feature" :P
<madnick> charlie-tca: cannot do much more than this with the current configuration: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png
<astraljava> madnick: Not following you. Do you mean there's an applet for the screenshot utility, and it sits in the panel? How can you set the properties, if not by clicking on it?
<madnick> astraljava: currently, 11.04
<madnick> you can simply click it
<madnick> But on Oneiric you need to right click -> properites, set mode
<madnick> then click it again, and do the thing you selected by right clicking
<charlie-tca> madnick: right, until Ubuntu straightens out the configuration files first, we get blocked
<astraljava> madnick: Every time?!
<madnick> astraljava: yes
 * astraljava faints
<charlie-tca> We will want to remove "Guest" before we release
<madnick> astraljava: try it out :)
<astraljava> madnick: Don't have it installed, yet, but will do later in the evening/night.
<madnick> charlie-tca: yep, i was just testing how much there could be done :P
<charlie-tca> I had that on my machine until they messed with the files
<charlie-tca> I like that better then the pink I get now
<madnick> :D
<madnick> pink hurts peoples eyes :P 
<charlie-tca> yup
<madnick> It was like rule #1 in website
<madnick> design*
<madnick> astraljava: do you think i should file it as a bug?
<davmor2> madnick: it does mostly cause I poke the designers eyes out for using pink :D
<charlie-tca> Well, I think it is supposed to be purple, but it depends on your monitor and video as to the actual color you see
<madnick> davmor2: :D
<astraljava> madnick: It depends on whether it's against the user experience specs or not (don't really think there are any.)
<astraljava> madnick: File it away, it'll be marked as a wishlist if it is.
<madnick> Well, it breaks current behavior
<astraljava> Right.
<astraljava> Okay, I'm off for a couple of hours. I'll ping ya when I get back, so we can talk about what it was I promised to test. :)
<madnick> sweet 
<madnick> have fun! :)
<madnick> ill get on making a package for easier testing
<charlie-tca> great! I need issues with staying connected today
<madnick> dh_make sure is not explianitory :D
<micahg> charlie-tca: are you be facetious?
<micahg> charlie-tca: that's going away, it's temporary, but bad timing
<charlie-tca> about the connection?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> about gwibber?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> It pulled in today with updates 
<charlie-tca> and it installed today with a fresh install
<micahg> yes, it's now a recommends of indicator-messages
<micahg> that will be fixed right after alpha3, but it was bad timing
<charlie-tca> I don't know what happened, but Xubuntu images are working and Ubuntu images are broken for now
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg. I knew you would be on top of ti
<charlie-tca> s/ti/it
<micahg> charlie-tca: we're ok space wise, is it ok to release w/gwibber in alpha3 and release note it as unintentional?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> That's not a problem
<charlie-tca> It just bothered me that the update on this system pulled it in
 * micahg wonders if kenvandine was trying to get wider testing for gwibber
 * charlie-tca nods
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, it's a recommends of indicator-messages which is a depends on indicator-messages-gtk2, which is a recommends of xfce4-indicator-plugin
<charlie-tca> but it shouldn't be a recommends, should it?
<charlie-tca> indicator-messages does not need gwibber
<charlie-tca> even if gwibber needs it
<charlie-tca> That's the kind of thing that makes it hard for all of us "official" derivatives
<micahg> no, it should've just been seeded
<micahg> and it will be after alpha3 (I have no idea why he didn't just seed it properly now)
<charlie-tca> oh, right
<charlie-tca> I can think of a lot of reasons, all of which I will keep to myself ;)
<micahg> same with xdiagnose, it was a recommends, then a depends, then it got seeded
<micahg> BTW, do we want that :)
<charlie-tca> It does make troubleshooting xorg easier, doesn't it?
<micahg> yes
<charlie-tca> Otherwise, we have to have users install it, then gather the information and attach it to their bugs
<charlie-tca> I forgot why they removed it though
<charlie-tca> it messes something up, for some users
<micahg> no, it's seeded on the Desktop CD now
<charlie-tca> If it doesn't cause problems, yes, we want it
<charlie-tca> Makes bug work much easier
<micahg> k, well, I can add it after alpha3 and you can tell me if it breaks anything
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> hm, I have it already on this system
<charlie-tca> Does that mess with plymouth, by chance?
<micahg> I don't think so, but no idea really
<charlie-tca> oaky
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> that's not the problem
<charlie-tca> I will keep trying
<micahg> BTW, mythbuntu has their own greeter 
<charlie-tca> nice
<charlie-tca> Are they using lightdm?
<micahg> yep
<charlie-tca> madnick: might be worth looking at?
<micahg> still in Unapproved
<charlie-tca> makes it harder, then
<micahg> err, new
<charlie-tca> I have my fingers crossed that when they fix Ubuntu images today, they don't mess up ours
<madnick> sure, but I thought you wanted to go with the default greeter?
<charlie-tca> madnick is working on one for us. I didn't care if we stayed with the default or customize it, myself. If we had a nice customized version, that would be great.
<madnick> ah okay :>
<charlie-tca> We are going to have a custom plymouth screen that is fantastic! a new greeter would be nice, but is not a necessity
<madnick> with lightdm we could really do something unique
<madnick> no idea what tho :D
<charlie-tca> We have time to think about it
<charlie-tca> Maybe take a look at the wallpapers in Settings -> Desktop, and also on the wiki in
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty and the other artwork pages there
<madnick> I read a bit online about dm's, and a often requested feature is to use their own background, but that sortra breaks with multiuser systems
<charlie-tca> yes, we can work towards that as a long range goal, but for oneiric, it may not happen
<charlie-tca> time is growing short now
<madnick> hehe, ubuntu is writing their theme in vala
<TheSheep> they only want one or two of them, ever
<micahg> that's because the person writing it loves vala
<TheSheep> I can understand that customizability is actually against ubuntu's goals
<TheSheep> especially with their mac complex
<TheSheep> vala is a pretty awesome language for programming
<madnick> yes
<TheSheep> not sure how it works for design though
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I would rather we don't follow that lead
<TheSheep> they have been stripping customizability and hardcoding things since quite a while
<TheSheep> it's hard to stop once you move in that direction
<charlie-tca> Which, in reality, is not a bad thing for beginners in linux
<charlie-tca> but, Xfce is about being able to customize, isn't it?
 * micahg thought the was KDE
<madnick> private bool background_animate_cb () <- This I dont think we can do without rewriting source, if we would like to add such things
<TheSheep> at some point you realize that your new tablet pc cannot have higher resolution because all your ui would need remaking
 * charlie-tca thinks "modular", for customisation
<TheSheep> even if xfce wanted to go down that path, we can't, because we need to rely on user-provided content and designs
<TheSheep> s/xfce/xubuntu
<TheSheep> sorry
<TheSheep> the punk approach
<charlie-tca> I understand, I like the direction we take
<charlie-tca> madnick: is that line from the source for lightdm or a config file?
<madnick> charlie-tca: well, its not from lightdm, its from a theme, you supply a "binary", the config file however, you cannot do much with
<charlie-tca> oh
<micahg> we will provide our own config file as well
<charlie-tca> This is why I don't do coding today
<madnick> Thats what I said about C/GTK last nite
<madnick> And you said "don't" :P
<charlie-tca> I test, if you give me instructions. It is easier on my poor old brain
<charlie-tca> micahg knows more than I do about it. 
<madnick> micahg: are you working on this?
<charlie-tca> what did I say 'don't' to?
<madnick> charlie-tca: to modifying lightdm-gtk-greeter.c
<charlie-tca> is that the theme or config or ??
<madnick> It is the theme kinda
<charlie-tca> If that is the source itself, we should not need to modify it, but if that is the theme, we do.
<madnick> I see
<charlie-tca> micahg: should we just tell madnick to do what he sees fit now to make it work for Xubuntu?
<madnick> I was acctually a bit scared that we were only allowed to modify the config file, because that did not provide much to configure 
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, anything in the greeter package is available for changing, anything in core lightdm would need approval
<charlie-tca> there, madnick ^ ^ ^\
<madnick> awesome
<charlie-tca> Is that better?
<madnick> yep
<micahg> we will also have a custom config file as well for various options that we should override (like no guest session)
<madnick> I'll try to produce something "mockup" like, but tomorrow I have to give a short lecture, so I wont be on until later, so maybe tomorrow night i will have something
<charlie-tca> Take your time.
<madnick> Ubuntus greeter can already hide guest session
<micahg> indeed, we're just waiting for a config file we can modify
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit appears to have pushed through a couple of changes for us in lightdm, giving us a .conf file and removing guest session. 
<charlie-tca> Yay!
<charlie-tca> madnick: might have to wait until alpha3 releases to see it, but we are gaining
<madnick> cool :)
<madnick> Is there GTK3?
<charlie-tca> for?
<charlie-tca> well, yes, GTK3 is out, but Xubuntu will not use it for Oneiric
<madnick> okay, so we cannot costumize the current ubuntu theme, we either costumize the the default or make a brand new
<madnick> It depends on GTK3
<charlie-tca> Oh, goody
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are we putting both gtk2 and gtk3 on the cd?
<charlie-tca> oh, make us a new one, for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> if mr_pouit puts gtk3 on the images, we can use that, otherwise, can we use gtk2?
<madnick> Problem is UI freeze
<madnick> Its quite a big task
<madnick> + testing
<charlie-tca> We will get a ffe for it. 
<charlie-tca> or, rather, a ui freeze exception if we have to
<madnick> acctually, if i work on this constantly, i should be done before that
<madnick> I think it will be fine
<charlie-tca> UI and Beta freeze are the 25th of august
<madnick> oh 25th, not 15th
<madnick> sorry i had misread
<madnick> then its cool
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> extra 10 days now, huh?
<madnick> yeah :D
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do I need to respin the images for lightdm?
<charlie-tca> The images from this morning are the alpha3 candidates right now
<charlie-tca> micahg: any idea?
<charlie-tca> A little help please!
<micahg> yeah, I think we do assuming what was uploaded actually works
<charlie-tca> How will we know without spinning them?
<charlie-tca> I can't mr_pouit to respond at all today
<micahg> charlie-tca: upgrade an oneiric desktop?
<charlie-tca> got one here to try
<micahg> if the guest session is hidden, it should mean it's working
<charlie-tca> upgrading now
<charlie-tca> 13 new packages, 62 upgrades, lightdm is not one of them
<charlie-tca> doesn't look to me like mr_pouit 's changes are in yet
<charlie-tca> I can have the images added to the tracker for us
<micahg> no, lightdm wasn't uploaded, xubuntu-default-settings was
<micahg> should be 11.10.2
<charlie-tca> not in the upgrades
<micahg> published 37 minutes ago, so might not have hit the mirrors yet
<charlie-tca> Well, crap
 * micahg figures mr_pouit wanted that change in, but wasn't aware of the 12:00 UTC freeze
<charlie-tca> well, images will respin tonight
<charlie-tca> replacement pidgin in the upgrades
<micahg> 2.9.0 was uploaded last week
<charlie-tca> I just installed this one two days ago
<charlie-tca> image dated 2011-07-29
<micahg> hmm
<micahg> it was uploaded that day :)
<charlie-tca> That explains it
<astraljava> o/
<charlie-tca> xubuntu-default-settings 11.10.1
<micahg> nope, you want .2
<charlie-tca> not there yet
<charlie-tca> Wish I could see madnick's new plymouth screens, too
<charlie-tca> OTOH, I can't see the old ones, either
<astraljava> madnick: I'm in, again. Just a heads-up. Will still fiddle with these machines for a bit, but just fire away if you got something. :)
<madnick> astraljava: sweet
<madnick> well, the themes are at
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu <- however, its a "bit" outdated, but not in terms of what it shall do, just graphics + minor changes
<astraljava> madnick: Okay, so is that .tar.gz the one I need to fetch? And if yes, then where shall I unpack it?
<madnick> astraljava: okay
<madnick> Like this:
<madnick> Its the tar file, put it in /lib/plymouth/themes/{here} then run:
<madnick> sudo update-alternatives --install /lib/plymouth/themes/default.plymouth default.plymouth /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-plymouth/xubuntu-plymouth.plymouth 100
<madnick> then run sudo update-alternatives --config default.plymouth .. then run sudo update-initramfs -u 
<madnick> Yeap, that should be right (double checked)
<madnick> astraljava: i need to reboot, i be back in 30 seconds
<astraljava> Cool, thanks! I'll report back when I get to that stage.
<madnick> astraljava: awesome, thanks for doing this :)
<charlie-tca> madnick: you changed the names?
<madnick> charlie-tca: yep, i put xubuntu in the name so people shall know what it is 
<charlie-tca> Is that why I can't make it work?
<madnick> charlie-tca: if you had the old files, it should work anyways
<madnick> If you mixed the new with the old, then it will not work
<charlie-tca> I had a folder named madnick instead of xubuntu-plymouth
<madnick> okay, but you were using madnick.tar.gz right? then that should not be a conflic
<madnick> conflict*
<madnick> charlie-tca: i uploaded this last night, if you have not downloaded since last night, you are not effected 
<charlie-tca> that doesn't work with the update commands
<madnick> charlie-tca: if you installed the "Manual" way, and have not restored previous files, it will not work to use the update command
<charlie-tca> Oh, I see
<madnick> i need more screens :P Im testing the changes i made to the DM on a netbook :( 
<madnick> charlie-tca: hm, could you found out what version of the greeter we are using on the images?
<madnick> I have no idea how to do that
<madnick> (the ones with the config file)
<charlie-tca> How do I make it go to auto mode?
<madnick> charlie-tca: you set a higher precedence
<madnick> than 100
<madnick> or lower, i dont remmeber
<madnick> Let me check
<madnick> yeah lower, try 50
<charlie-tca> I will try it
<charlie-tca> Um, until they quit making changes, I don't what version it will end up as
<charlie-tca> well, at least we don't hang anymore if no session is entered. It just loops back to the login screen now
<madnick> okay, well, i guess i could use the default greeter and build on that, shouldnt be too many changes
<madnick> knome: do you have any ideas for a DM theme?
<charlie-tca> Wonder if we should perhaps use an Xfce in the background ?
<madnick> the mouse?
<charlie-tca> no, the letters "Xfce"
<madnick> ah 
<charlie-tca> If you look in Sessions and Startup, there are 4 display manager screens listed that worked with GDM
<charlie-tca> Not sure they are still valid for us, but they give you an idea, anyway.
<charlie-tca> You can preview them, maybe
<madnick> yep
<madnick> Should be keep the position of the login in the middle? or something closer to this:
<madnick> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o1flLfTEanU/Th3TpoGpcBI/AAAAAAAABFg/oRyhXzQ22RU/s1600/unity+greeter+1.png
<madnick> we can also animate stuff
<madnick> perhaps a detail of a background, like a bird in the current background for example
<charlie-tca> We could put the mouse logo on the right?
<madnick> Yes
<charlie-tca> That ties it to us and Xfce at the same time
<charlie-tca> I like the offset
<charlie-tca> but I am not a good art critic, either.
<charlie-tca> I don't know what the reason for centering is. It used to be offset, centered towards the screen bottom
<charlie-tca> Now, they always put it centered on the screen
<madnick> I can try some stuff out and get some comments
<madnick> ill look into a xfce logo
<astraljava> Aaaahhhahahaha!!! I accidentally attempted to install Fluxbuntu. You know, the sole release from 2007. *sigh*
<madnick> :D
<charlie-tca> madnick: could always grab the logo from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork and blow it up
<astraljava> Damnit, so glad GNOME2 is going away. I _really really_ loathe it when newly-opened dialogs don't have focus in the only field that can receive input.
<madnick> charlie-tca: oh you meant like that, i thought you wanted a pure XFCE logo :P
<charlie-tca> Depends on what looks best
 * astraljava bursts out in tears
<astraljava> All my .isos are x86_64, and the test hardware is a 32-bit system. :(
<astraljava> madnick: Busy? Can we do this tomorrow? I really can't waste 700MB of my 3GB montly quota...
<astraljava> monthly*
<charlie-tca> ouch
<charlie-tca> Want me to mail one?
<astraljava> Well, maybe not. I have an older one on the desktop machine. It shouldn't have changed that much, so that a zsync would eat too much of that quota.
<charlie-tca> could be as much as 50%, though
<astraljava> Yeah, well, I won't be making the decision on the landline in a week or so anyway, so I'm looking at buying 1GB additional packages anyway.
<astraljava> But 700MB would eat one package almost totally, so...
<madnick> :)
<madnick> No rush 
<madnick> charlie-tca: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png something like that? (ofcourse, not at ALL like that, but that placement of stuff?)
<charlie-tca> something like that, yeah. 
<charlie-tca> although the xubuntu bothers my eyes, for some reason
<madnick> its "glowing2
<charlie-tca> What if it was above the login prompt?
<charlie-tca> or maybe it is too bright?
<madnick> yeah, we need the artists on this :P
<charlie-tca> I agree
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Target was 44.3% complete... :-/ Oh well, 1GB is only 1.90 â¬
<astraljava> It's still 40+ % better than downloading the whole thing.
 * astraljava laughs at the censored version of Children of Bodom's In Your Face.
<knome> madnick, DM?
<madnick> knome: display manager :) lightdm theme
<knome> hmm, do you have a shot of what we have currently?
<madnick> knome: i can fix that :)
<knome> sure, but can i see what we have now? :)
<madnick> yes i meant i can fix an iamge of that :D
<knome> aha
<knome> right
<knome> good ;)
<knome> thanks, that would be nice
<knome> i think i'm having a not-working login
<knome> that's why i'm asking
<knome> not-working as in not looking as should
<madnick> ok
<madnick> here:
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/current.png
<madnick> thats the current
<knome> ouch
<knome> :D
<madnick> acctually thats a bit costumized by me
<knome> are we sticking with the list-style?
<madnick> to use the droid font
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/lightdm.png
<madnick> thats what it looks like now
<knome> mmh
<charlie-tca> What we have is a plain background with a login in the center
<madnick> I changed to droids + background
<knome> yeah
<knome> madnick, what about the list?
<knome> madnick, sticking with that?
<madnick> i dont know
<knome> madnick, what do you think?
<knome> i personally might even prefer the textfield more, but for most users, i think the list is optimal
<madnick> I think we should do a good version of this: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/draft1.png
<knome> hmm
<madnick> Like the logo
<madnick> And to the left
<knome> i'm wondering if it looks awkward to first have the plymouth theme aligned to centre, then changing it to this
<madnick> oh
<madnick> didnt think of that
<knome> that's not really consistent :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> so if we don't want to do something completely different, let's just center-align the stuff
<madnick> okay
<madnick> hm
<madnick> if you have a nice idea, i could just implement whats needed to make that possible
<madnick> I cannot do graphics
<madnick> I dont think that the current box looks nice 
<madnick> and the computer screen
<madnick> it looks a bit "off"
<madnick> Maybe we could use the mouse? :)
<knome> why don't we just remove that
<knome> why don't just use the logo as in the plymouth theme
<knome> :)
<madnick> yep!
<madnick> do you think that its too bright?
<madnick> the logotype*
<knome> what we have in plymouth, no
<knome> that's how i originally designed it
<madnick> :>
<madnick> So basically, hide users, use the xubuntu logo instead of computer, and keep it in the middle?
<madnick> not animate anything?
<knome> i don't know about list/textbox
<madnick> I had a (maybe dumb) idea, that if we used the foresty image, we could animate a bird, rotation is not a problem programmatically
<madnick> knome: okay
<knome> maybe use the list
<knome> for the password input screen, use the same style as in plymouth pw-input, but naturally lose the progress bar
<knome> about the list itself, i'm not sure what would look best yet
<knome> i'll have to look at that later today or tomorrow
<knome> pleia2?
<madnick> okay
<madnick> sounds good
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, aisleriot will be broke in alpha3
<charlie-tca> yup, I figured that, since it is still broken
<micahg> charlie-tca: gilir filed a bug for the gwibber issue if you want to track it, bug 819519
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819519 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Gwibber installed on Xubuntu/Lubuntu ISO (indicator-messages recommends)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819519
<astraljava> Uhhh... now I understand the pink creepiness you guys were talking about.
<charlie-tca> pretty, huh?
<madnick> :D
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg 
<charlie-tca> I'm guessing they fixed the wiki again. It is very slow again
<astraljava> whee! Yay for wiki sluggishness!
<charlie-tca> It was good for a few weeks now.
<charlie-tca> Got to give them credit, a few weeks of working right in 5+ years is something!
<madnick> wow, i stumbled accross a really wierd error
<charlie-tca> Really? There is such a thing?
<madnick> "No LIGHTDM_TO_SERVER_FD environment variable" <- see, should there be one?
<madnick> :D
<charlie-tca> I don't know
<astraljava> madnick: Not seeing the splash while booting, but there is a splash when going down. While coming up, my monitor clicks a few times, though, so it's definitely trying to do something.
<madnick> astraljava: okay, alot of people reports this thing, but do you know if you had a boot splash before you tried my script?
<astraljava> madnick: Ahh... sadly, I don't. I didn't watch the screen when it booted up the first time. That should be an easy change, though, right? Just reverting the alternatives?
<madnick> yep
<astraljava> Let me try that.
<madnick> :)
<astraljava> Nope, the same clicks, but no splash.
<madnick> astraljava: what drivers are you using?
<astraljava> madnick: i915
<madnick> and they are installed / supported?
<astraljava> That's installed by the installer. No idea whether it's supported or not.
<astraljava> Hmm... found a bug already. Can't assign a keyboard shortcut for a new command.
<madnick> plymouth seem to be hard to get working in all cases
<madnick> alot of people getting "blank" screens
<madnick> It requires fiddeling with settings to get stuff working :(
<charlie-tca> yup
<astraljava> I can only imagine.
<charlie-tca> That's been a problem for a long time with plymouth
<astraljava> Too many things still require a lot of fiddling. Like for one, spotify on my two-screen setup wants to be maximized all the time. Nothing I do makes a difference. It's either on this monitor or the other, but covering up the whole space. Even occupying the space normally used by the panels.
<madnick> Cannot get pass this error, i cant just random set an fd :D
<madnick> They dont have an IRC channel either
<charlie-tca> that in lightdm?
<astraljava> Did you try #ubuntu-devel yet? Could give some pointers. Seems like they've died down for the night, mostly, though.
<charlie-tca> Talk direct to rancell if he is in
<pleia2> knome: *waves*
<micahg> charlie-tca: on vacation I think
<charlie-tca> madnick: Robert Ancell is the developer for lightdm, he hangs out in either #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-devel, I can't remember which one
<charlie-tca> great
<madnick> thanks, ill look that up tomorrow, for now: workaround :P
<madnick> alot of environment variables are missing, not just lightdm's
<madnick> Ill investigate
<astraljava> Goddamn that thing is lightning fast!
<astraljava> On a Pentium4 even!
<micahg> what thing?
<astraljava> Xubuntu oneiric.
<micahg> cool
<astraljava> Seriously, takes like 10 seconds to boot, and 2 to shutdown.
<astraljava> And we're talking ancient hardware.
<astraljava> I'm sooo going to convert all my other machines, except the Studio desktop. :)
<astraljava> And the test comps, for other dists.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-02
<Unit193> Anyone else get two options of Xubuntu Session today?
<charlie-tca> fresh install or after running updates?
<Unit193> Updates
<Unit193> Daily live with updates that is
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: We get two sessions now for Xubuntu after the xubuntu-default-settings update
<Unit193> One is the XFCE theme
<charlie-tca> file a bug for it against xubuntu-default-sessions. We will need the bug report for the qa tracker
<Unit193> Do you get it too though?
<charlie-tca> I haven't done any updates since the change was done
<Unit193> Anything you want me to put in it? LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options
<Unit193> And file agenst xubuntu-default-settings
<charlie-tca> yes, and add "after the upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01"
<Unit193> Bug 819585
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819585 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options after upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819585
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<Unit193> Only thank me if it's valid and helpful :P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot?action=diff&rev2=23&rev1=22
<charlie-tca> it's helpful
<mr_pouit> o hai
<mr_pouit> yeah, sorry, I wasn't aware of the freeze (and I received the announcement mail a few hours later)
<mr_pouit> yeah, well, default.desktop is supposed to be handled in a special way in lightdm, but apparently it's not the case if there are two xubuntu sessions :/
<Unit193> I'll get th[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Ce logs tomorrow (5am now and I need sleep)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Alpha3 images to test today. 
<madnick> http://pastebin.madnick.se/paste.php?id=4e3806fb0a746
<madnick> :(
<madnick> Ok, this is what I made it out to look like:
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/default.png
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/default2.png
<madnick> Thats using only the new config files
<madnick> Are the new images complete with the lightdm config file?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> mythbuntu images should have their new config file. ours are a bit of a mess right now
<madnick> okay 
<charlie-tca> https://launchpad.net/bugs/819585 now has logs from today's live session
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 819585 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options after upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01" [Medium,Triaged]
<micahg> charlie-tca: someone uploaded a new version of gnumeric w/out goffice, if we respin xubuntu, it'll break
<charlie-tca> I sure wish they would stop doing that
<charlie-tca> Is it part of the that sync that should not have happened?
<micahg> no
<micahg> let's move this to -release
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> We have an install icon on the live desktop now
<charlie-tca> micahg: bigger problem than just pulling in gwibber 
<charlie-tca> bug 819614
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819614 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-indicator-plugin pulls in lots of unnecessary packages (dup-of: 819519)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819614
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819519 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Gwibber installed on Xubuntu/Lubuntu ISO (indicator-messages recommends)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819519
<micahg> charlie-tca: that's due to gwibber
<davmor2> charlie-tca: that was a temporary work round so gwibber got on the cd it was missing, so if it isn't meant to be on xubuntu then it should be removed when it moves to the ubuntu seed but check with kenvandine
<charlie-tca> I sure like the way Ubuntu temporary workarounds make more work for us, but our workarounds have to make sure they don't touch what ubuntu needs
<GridCube> madnick: i like the new greetings you made :D
<davmor2> charlie-tca: I don't think it was done intentionally honest ;)
<davmor2> charlie-tca: ken is on ubuntu-devel feel free to flame him :D
<davmor2> charlie-tca: what does xubuntu use for twitter and stuff?
<micahg> davmor2: nothing until now, now we have pidgin-microblog :)
<charlie-tca> pidgin
<charlie-tca> We have never used gwibber
<davmor2> charlie-tca: I've let ken know for you on #ubuntu-desktop
<micahg> davmor2: he already knew as I subscribed him to the bug
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<davmor2> micahg: trust me I know how many bugs he is dealing with right now irc is quicker :)
<charlie-tca> davmor2: the biggest issue I see is that it also caused all of us already running oneiric to get gwibber installed too
<charlie-tca> and that is not so easy to fix by changing seeds
<micahg> huh?
<charlie-tca> huh? what?
<micahg> oh, wait
<micahg> I forget normal people don't run aptitude :)
<davmor2> charlie-tca: feel free to let ken know I've done my bit and let him know that it got installed :)
<micahg> yeah, people will be stuck with it
<charlie-tca> Every computer running oneiric with indicators now has gwibber and gwibber-service
<micahg> unless they run apt-get autoremove
<charlie-tca> It is not removing it
<micahg> charlie-tca: won't remove it until indicator-messages doesn't recommend it
<davmor2> charlie-tca: it won't currently they'll need to remove the recommends
<charlie-tca> See, it is not so much a matter of "fixed it to work on the Ubuntu images." 
<charlie-tca> It really is much bigger than a simple "got it on the cd"
<charlie-tca> There is a big difference between an installation of oneiric and the live session now
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, I got the list of users back when I installed unity
<charlie-tca> Yes, because lightdm has been set up specific to Ubuntu now
<charlie-tca> The provision for anyone else to use it is not there yet
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, I just need to seed accountsservice if you want the list back
<charlie-tca> let's seed it then
<micahg> k, after alpha3 :)
<charlie-tca> But that still won't get us a default session working right
<micahg> I thought mr_pouit's upload fixed that
<charlie-tca> nope
<micahg> hmmm
<charlie-tca> we now have two xubuntu sessions, one of which is ours and one is xfce defaults
<charlie-tca> neither one gives the right live session
<charlie-tca> bug 819585
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819585 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "LightDM has two Xubuntu Session options after upgrade to xubuntu-default-settings on 2011-08-01" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819585
<charlie-tca> but we are gaining. We now *have* a live session, and you can install from it
<charlie-tca> You just have to know to use "ubuntu" as the user name, nothing goes in password, and choose the bottom Xubuntu session
<charlie-tca> which I will put in the release notes
<micahg> charlie-tca: you'll get the user list after I seed accountsservice (I wonder if it will auto-login like it should)
<charlie-tca> But that will be after alpha3 is released, right?
<micahg> yep, unless you want a respin
<charlie-tca> it's alpha3, they should expect a problem or two?
<micahg> your call
<charlie-tca> If we knew it would fix the multiple xubuntu session thing and the auto-login part, then I would. Otherwise, let's just wait
<charlie-tca> It isn't that hard to login now, and if you don't know what user name and password you used, maybe you should not be using oneiric.
<mr_pouit> bah, this is extremely boring
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> what is?
<mr_pouit> #819585 is a lightdm issue imho
<mr_pouit> (yeah, sorry, out of context)
<charlie-tca> We seem to have many bugs against lightdm now. Is there anything we can do to fix them?
<charlie-tca> We get the right session with all the pieces after installing, but the live session is really messed up
<charlie-tca> It seems to be pulling in a combination of xfce and xubuntu again
<charlie-tca> if you log in to the wrong session first
<mr_pouit> it's because lightdm takes 'default.desktop' instead of 'xubuntu.desktop' as the real session name
<charlie-tca> I get a different session when I log to the first xubuntu session, logout, then login the the second xubuntu session
<mr_pouit> so DESKTOP_SESSION=default instead of DESKTOP_SESSION=xubuntu gets propagated to the environment
<charlie-tca> much different than logging straight to the second session
<mr_pouit> and picked up by some xsession scripts
<mr_pouit> so XDG_CONFIG_DIRS end up containing /etc/xdg/xdg-default/ instead of /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu
<mr_pouit> thus the different look, because it searches for default xfce settings in the wrong folder
<mr_pouit> btw, has something been done for gnumeric?
<mr_pouit> mmh
<mr_pouit> ah, micahg uploaded goffice :)
<charlie-tca> yeah, we added goffice, so if we respin, it should be okay
<micahg> mr_pouit: I sent an e-mail to the uploader of gnumeric
<charlie-tca> Should we go ahead and add accountsservice and respin to see what that fixes or breaks?
<mr_pouit> micahg: I bet he didn't know gnumeric was seeded by xubuntu =]
<charlie-tca> We have a good xubuntu live session if you login to the second session on starting the desktop cd
<micahg> mr_pouit: he might not have been checking for seeded packages at all, idk, but he promised to be more careful
<mr_pouit> micahg: okay, thanks for taking care of that. I think the real issue is there's no easy way to check that...
<mr_pouit> (or, at least, easy and advertised ;D)
<micahg> right, I have an open bug to write a tool that checks the tasks
<micahg> which would get us 98% of the way there
<charlie-tca> I suppose anyone not reading the release notes is going to be very upset with what they get in Alpha3
<mr_pouit> well, all previous alphas have been more or less broken because of lightdm, haven't they?
<charlie-tca> Yup
<mr_pouit> so people won't be more upset :p
<charlie-tca> ever since Ubuntu added it
<charlie-tca> true statement 
<charlie-tca> It seems to be working quite well, other than getting logged in
<charlie-tca> If they insist on filing bugs for using the wrong session, we can sign them off invalid for not reading release notes?
<madnick> knome: cannot directly use the "textbox" image, we can color the current one however
<madnick> well, unless we make a special case theme for that only
<charlie-tca> micahg: so, the seed changes are done and will be in the next respin, gnumeric and goffice will also update?
<micahg> charlie-tca: I didn't change anything yet
<charlie-tca> and it is only tuesday
<charlie-tca> let's do it and respin then
<micahg> charlie-tca: what do you want me to add?  accountsservice, anything else for alpha3?
<charlie-tca> We can pick up the user list, goffice, gnumeric, sudoku, what else?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: anything else we can do to make lightdm work?
<micahg> we're stuck with gwibber unless another upload of indicator-messages happens
<charlie-tca> micahg: as far as I know, that's it
<micahg> mr_pouit: depends or recommends on accountsservice (I"m think recommends)
<micahg> charlie-tca: did you want xdiagnose?
<charlie-tca> sure, I think
<charlie-tca> also want pastebinit
<micahg> right, but for now or after alpha 3?
<charlie-tca> oh, I guess after is fine
<charlie-tca> we are in freeze now, so we should only do what we really need, right?
 * micahg thinks xdiagnose should wait as well
<micahg> yep
<charlie-tca> yep, xdiagnose is not a priority
<charlie-tca> but we should be able to do gnumeric, goffice, and accountsservice
<charlie-tca> Those are big for us
<micahg> k, will upload a new meta in a few minutes
<charlie-tca> I will order a respin in what, an hour?
<micahg> hour and a half if I get it uploaded in the next 30 minutes
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will give it two hours then
<micahg> oh, should I drop aisleriot for alpha3 or leave it broke?
<charlie-tca> They ain't gonna fix it yet, huh?
<charlie-tca> let's drop it, it will cut down on fake reports
<micahg> we're waiting on a new upstream release with the license fixed
<charlie-tca> I see. Well, we can put it back when it is working, right?
<knome> madnick, can't use it with what, lightdm?
<knome> madnick, could we just add that image as some kind of background image, and add a 100% transparent box on top of it?
<micahg> charlie-tca: do we need to check with skaet before I upload?
<charlie-tca> What are we uploading, just accountsservice?
<micahg> no, just the meta
<charlie-tca> courtesy check, yes
<micahg> or do we own our CDs
<charlie-tca> I don't think we own much, TBH
<micahg> by own I mean can respin when we wnat
<charlie-tca> Got permission, go ahead, micahg 
<charlie-tca> I can request the respins, but have to have them push the button
<micahg> k, it'll be a few more minutes for the meta (this takes forever)
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> I have worked pretty hard to get Xubuntu in a position that when I request things now, I usually get it
<micahg> um, I just updated it and it didn't pick up accountsservice
<micahg> ah, branch scaner didn't get to it yet
<charlie-tca> okay, respin happens in 1.5 hours
<charlie-tca> all images
<micahg> oops, pushed to my branch, not the main one..I hope I make it...
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> What a deal... Just trying to really improve things, too. :)
<micahg> yeah, I don't think we'll make it, one more hour most likekly
<micahg> actually, I shouldn't say that, idk exactly how this all works yet
<charlie-tca> No problem. I will order the respin when you tell me everything is ready
<madnick> knome: i am afraid that is not possible without modifying the greeter, it should probably be possible to use a gtk theme also, however i cannot get lightdm to do that
<charlie-tca> might be better to try that after alpha3, we just added the user list
<madnick> I find it really hard to find documentation about lightdm
<micahg> k, meta uploaded
<charlie-tca> madnick: that's because there is very little
<charlie-tca> madnick: have you seen http://people.ubuntu.com/~robert-ancell/lightdm/reference/
<charlie-tca> madnick: also some good stuff in http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/2010/07/lightdm.html
<charlie-tca> madnick: and I also have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LightDM
<charlie-tca> Does that help at all?
<charlie-tca> It is all I seem to know of for lightdm
<madnick> well, ive seen them but thanks :)
<madnick> what im looking for is:
<madnick> How to use a GTK theme, hm i guess that is all :P
<madnick> charlie-tca: ive modified as much as i could
<madnick> using the glade file, and the configs:
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/default.png
<madnick> But I dont think its enough
<charlie-tca> Thanks for trying. We will need some of the broken stuff fixed too, I think
<charlie-tca> I like that
<charlie-tca> did you get the logo in the lower left to tone down?
<madnick> nope, but it is scacled
<micahg> charlie-tca: k, meta is building, but we missed the start of the publisher run, idk if it'll still make it in or need to wait for the next one
<charlie-tca> or lower right, I guess.
<charlie-tca> micahg: Okay, I will wait and see. Let me know when to respin.
 * micahg hopes this actually helps :)(
<charlie-tca> heh, me too
<charlie-tca> Well, it has to, if we get a user name in the list
<charlie-tca> I already duped a bug report for no autologin to live session
<charlie-tca> I will go work on other things, since I know both desktop images did work
<micahg> well, hopefully 2 less release notes for xubuntu :)
<charlie-tca> Every one counts!
<ochosi> madnick: heya
<ochosi> madnick: just a quick comment (might be off again for tonight pretty quickly), i think it would be cool if the box with the username etc wouldn't be plain grey, if you can tweak that that would be great. either something translucent (e.g. black shadowy half-transparent box?) or a darker color could go well with the bg-colors
<madnick> ochosi: i will see what i can do :)
<madnick> The problem is what layer im gonna end up adding to
<ochosi> madnick: okeydokey, maybe we can also start out with mockups
<madnick> ochosi: have you seen the plymouth stuff?
<madnick> I think you were on vacation?
<ochosi> yup, just retourned
<ochosi> so no, haven't seen that
<ochosi> link
<ochosi> ?
<madnick> 1 sec
<ochosi> sure np
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/
<madnick> the ogg files
<madnick> mainly
<ochosi> looks pretty sazzy :)
<ochosi> i like it
<madnick> good 
<madnick> :)
<ochosi> the knight-rider effect can't really be transformed into something else, can it?
<ochosi> i mean the white bar going left and right
<madnick> Well, anything can be done, we had it different before
<charlie-tca> what if it were black instead of white?
<madnick> 1 sec
<ochosi> hm, maybe black would be strange because the logo and font are in white
<madnick> ochosi: had it rebouncing before
<madnick> But that was not so nice
<ochosi> hm, i see
<ochosi> maybe we can do something like a spinner?
<madnick> we get no real "progress" data as we do for fsck
<madnick> if you'd like
<madnick> you can make something taht i can use
<ochosi> that would feel more natural to me
<ochosi> because it's "endless"
<ochosi> what do you need for that?
<ochosi> just a mockup?
<madnick> yep
<ochosi> ok, thing i can get around to that, maybe tomorrow
<ochosi> or at least in the upcoming days
<madnick> im not great with colors or stuff like that :(
<ochosi> np, what you've done up to now looks great
<madnick> knome did all of the graphics
<ochosi> and i'm happy i'm not the only one anymore doing artwork around here :)
<madnick> :P
<charlie-tca> heh, we are trying to add to the contributors :)
<madnick> i meant, for this plymouth
<ochosi> mhm
<TheSheep> is it normal that mouse doesn't work in lightdm? :)
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> mouse works here in it, on all images and installs
 * charlie-tca has both usb only and ps/2 only mice, too
<charlie-tca> wait
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Can you try whether it works the same way for you than it works for me; try to add a new key shortcut, can you actually add a key combo for the command?
<madnick> ochosi: i looked at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Breezy?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_logo.png
<madnick> but it was animated, was that what you had in mind?
<charlie-tca> TheSheep: no, all mice should just work in lightdm
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: I see, disconnecting the tablet helped
<charlie-tca> Usually when mine doesn't, I have to reboot and it will 
<charlie-tca> astraljava: let me try
<ochosi> madnick: yeah, i think there's a spinning/running mouse somewhere as a login splash-screen in xfce/xubuntu
<madnick> ochosi: yep but i was told not to use it because it was old
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> "old" in what way?
<madnick> I dont know :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> well we can talk about that again
<ochosi> i'm not sure it's necessary that the logo itself moves
<charlie-tca> astraljava: it added it
<charlie-tca> Let me try a fresh oneiric
<ochosi> madnick: a very clean circle underneath the logo/font would work as well and be cleaner in a way
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Okay, then it was just a glitch in my yesterday's install.
<charlie-tca> let's see what a new install
<charlie-tca> does
<madnick> ochosi: :)
<charlie-tca> ochosi: is that the mouse running in the circle  of friends?
<charlie-tca> we killed that logo
<TheSheep> I loved it
<madnick> do you think we should have something specific at boot/shutdown? to distingish them?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ah, now i get what you mean with "old". true.
<ochosi> madnick: maybe, i
<ochosi> i'll try to think of it a bit
<ochosi> all of this started pretty much as i left
<ochosi> so i'm at square one here
<madnick> :P
<madnick> ochosi: you also got a vid from a real computer screen from the live cd, so you can see how it looks like with a normal resolutions
<madnick> its a bit wider
<charlie-tca> astraljava: works great here on fresh install from today
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I did suggest looking at the xfce splash screens, too
<charlie-tca> They used to have a running mouse that was nice
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> well after having seen the bar that moves back and forth i really think we should go for something else there
<ochosi> be it a running mouse or a spinner
<ochosi> madnick: yeah thanks, i looked at all the stuff there now. great you put that together!
<charlie-tca> I can agree with that. Maybe give it some thought
<ochosi> yeah, i'm pretty sure we'll come up with something nice
<charlie-tca> micahg: do we know anything yet?
<charlie-tca> ubuntu just started a full respin, so it will be a while for us now.
<madnick> is there some special purpose for the thick lines in the accessability and shutdown icon things?
<madnick> in lightdm
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Right, will have to try again tomorrow, then. Thanks!
<charlie-tca> madnick: carry over of the icons used by Untiy
<charlie-tca> s/untiy/unity and Ubuntu
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> It should be changable for us.
<madnick> it is
<madnick> its stock icons
<madnick> set in the glade file
<madnick> But I really wonder, if this is what they call "themable"
<madnick> seems worse than gdm
<madnick> oh.. i forgot to talk to the developer :(
<charlie-tca> heh, and another person finds the changes made by Ubuntu miserable to work around
<davmor2> charlie-tca: it's not the changes Ubuntu make, it's the lack of changes you guys make honest ;)  /me counts to 3 before hearing charlie-tca's head explode
<micahg> charlie-tca: I think we're good
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks, micahg 
<charlie-tca> will go for the respin now
<charlie-tca> davmor2: honest, lightdm worked great for a week before Ubuntu touched it
<davmor2> charlie-tca: I blame the lightdm-gtk-greeter or whatever it is called, I can't even change to the unity-greeter and without it lightdm doesn't go at all :(  I liked the unity-greeter too it was nice 
<charlie-tca> Well, glad I ain't the only one fighting it :)
<charlie-tca> Maybe it is just easy to blame Ubuntu. It can't all be their fault, right?
<charlie-tca> Besides, it really is Ubuntu that allowed Xubuntu to exist at all!
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'll be afk for several hours, but will check backscroll later tonight
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg 
<madnick> gah, i wish we used the webkit engine :P just tried some stuff out, its wonderful :D
<madnick> seems thats deleted from oneiric?
<charlie-tca> probably. There have been many changes in the last week or two.
<madnick> i give up for tonight :P when is the next meeting? 
<madnick> sorry for asking that, forgot there is a website
<charlie-tca> It's also in the topic
<charlie-tca> August 8
<madnick> :)
<madnick> Does GTK3 break something in Xubuntu? 
<madnick> Reason Im asking is
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/unity.png
<madnick> Is very possible, if we had GTK3
<Unit193> Xfce uses GTK2, but I think we may ship with both? The theme will support it anyway
<madnick> oh sweet :)
<madnick> Don't know why Ubuntu hardcoded the Ubuntu fonts and Ubuntu logos into the source
<Unit193> Wait for another to make sure. Because it's Ubuntu :P
<madnick> hehe, its also written in Vala :P
<madnick> But Vala is easy, sorta like C#
<charlie-tca> madnick: gtk3 should not bread anything
<madnick> I got a little check when i saw string? 
<madnick> "string?" :)
<madnick> But then i got the reference and saw what it meant
<madnick> charlie-tca: im sorry, "bread", im not familar with the expression :(
<charlie-tca> madnick: gtk3 should not break anything
<charlie-tca> sorry
<charlie-tca> keyboard got confused
<madnick> sorry, i truly did not understand, i wasnt correcting you
<charlie-tca> no problem. spelling errors happen
<madnick> But do we want a theme like this one?
<madnick> Its already running on my machine, so it works
<charlie-tca> gtk3 should work, but there is apparently a difference in graphics in gtk2 and gtk3
<madnick> okay, because, without writing a greeter
<madnick> We cannot do much things
<madnick> And if this works, then its very good
<charlie-tca> Write a greeter if you need to, we can have one named xubuntu-greeter, can't we?
<charlie-tca> or do things the easiest way
<madnick> yep we can, but if we want the unity greeter is pretty nice imo
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit does not plan to put gtk3 on the cd if we don't have to.
<madnick> hm, difficult this :P 
<charlie-tca> okay
<madnick> Ill ask ochosi and knome if they have inputs
<madnick> and if they really like to do something
<knome> wot?
<madnick> I could costumize the greeter to do it?
<madnick> knome: about the art to use
<madnick> I know what you said last night
<knome> mmh
<madnick> But that is not really 100% possible with the GTK default greeter
<knome> bah. :)
<madnick> The functionallity of the unity greeter is nice imo
<astraljava> Hehehe... costumize. :) I like that.
<micahg> charlie-tca: gtk3 is already on the CD
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> madnick: apparently, my information was bad. gtk3 is on the cd, so you can use it
<micahg> we don't want GNOME3 :)
<madnick> oh cool :)
<micahg> on the CD...I mean on the CD...
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> if he writes it for gnome3, we won't use it
<Unit193> So we can have KDE and qt? ;)
<charlie-tca> no
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I take it no more logs are  needed for that bug?
<charlie-tca> We can not
<charlie-tca> right, I gave him enough
<charlie-tca> I thought as long as I was trying to test alpha3...
<charlie-tca> Now we are waiting for the .2 images for today
<Unit193> Yeah, I just wanted to make sure
<charlie-tca> It's good to follow up
<micahg> charlie-tca: and it's only tuesday and we have a .2 :)
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> today .2
<charlie-tca> I think. Maybe it is a .1, and I am confused again
<charlie-tca> but it is not without the .?
<micahg> I think it's progress, better to get these bugs out on tuesday than wed
<charlie-tca> yup
<madnick> seems the unity greeter is not 100% accurate at scaling
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/labmachine.jpg
<madnick> (if i talk to much, please tell me :P)
<charlie-tca> looks kind of dark, too?
<charlie-tca> We just don't answer when you talk too much
<madnick> that might be the camera, im not sure
<madnick> okay, fair enough :)
<charlie-tca> Oh, Then it should be fine
 * astraljava has started to suspect there are people on #ubuntu who deliberately try to get on people's nerves, by thinking up the strangest support questions that don't even make any sense at all, but disguise them cleverly so that calling their bluff isn't obvious
<knome> astraljava, definitely.
<madnick> :D
<charlie-tca> of course there are
<astraljava> argh
<charlie-tca> hm, Yes, I think there are pirates too
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-03
<astraljava> charlie-tca: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqEn7AAq5E
<charlie-tca> new alternate images are up
<charlie-tca> still waiting for desktop to finish
<micahg> did anyone test to see if accountsservice restored the user list on login?
<charlie-tca> haven't even had time to finish syncing yet
<micahg> was referring to upgrading a current system/logout
<astraljava> I can try tomorrow at the office, while waiting for code to compile or whatever.
<charlie-tca> desktop is up now
<charlie-tca> sorry, will boot one up and find out
<charlie-tca> upgrading now, micahg 
<charlie-tca> I am a little slow some days
<charlie-tca> micahg: it worked, gave me the user list and the session prefilled
<charlie-tca> It's even the correct session preselected
<charlie-tca> Now if only the background stayed one color
<charlie-tca> starting the image tests now
<charlie-tca> will run one test per image tonight, to make sure they work
<Unit193> I'll run a few 32bit
<charlie-tca> great.
<charlie-tca> Mostly want to know if we have to fix things or not to get a good image
<Unit193> Is bug 819609 really invalid?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 819609 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Oneiric live CD boots to login screen" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819609
<micahg> charlie-tca: great news
<micahg> Unit193: yes, it was fixed another way
<Unit193> Sorry. I still had to login :/
<micahg> Unit193: xubuntu or ubuntu?
<micahg> ubuntu should be no, xubuntu, yes
<Unit193> Xubuntu desktop 32bit
<Unit193> Alright
<micahg> that should be fixed after alpha3 I think
<micahg> at least you should get a user to click on now
<charlie-tca> It was against ubuntu, we may still not have a auto-boot to the live session, but that is bug 806408
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 806408 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "After xubuntu upgrade or installation, default session on greeter must be xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806408
<Unit193> That was the bug on our tracker. I didn't get the user actually
<micahg> Unit193: do you have the latest ISO?  we added that this afternoon
<charlie-tca> This is still valid for us. We are on hold for another bug to get fixed
<Unit193> micahg: I should as I just synced it. I'll check MD5 again
 * charlie-tca booting a live cd now to verify
<charlie-tca> image should be dated 2011-08-03 for desktop
<charlie-tca> The live cd is the only time I get a splash screen in plymouth. 
<charlie-tca> micahg: the user list doesn't show up in live session
<charlie-tca> The only user listed is "other"
<charlie-tca> We have to seed it to use ubuntu somehow
<charlie-tca> but I don't think we can until we get the bug above fixed, which is on hold for Bug #799754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
<Unit193> I'm glad it isn't just me as the md5 checked from cdimage.../current/
<Unit193> Oddly, I got the plymouth screen in VBox
<charlie-tca> strange, that login bug is the only one I see now
<charlie-tca> spoke too soon, still has two xubuntu sessions
<micahg> charlie-tca: :(
<charlie-tca> ubiquity is different than the installed systems. Things don't work the same
<charlie-tca> I think something has to happen in casper to make it work
<charlie-tca> micahg: I guess if it is broken on live session, but fixed after installing, that is still a gain
<charlie-tca> We won't get things working in lightdm for live sessions until those bugs get fixed, which mr_pouit has spent a lot of time on.
<charlie-tca> unfortunately, sometimes it seems like they are fighting us all the way
<charlie-tca> um, this is bad
<charlie-tca> I lost all video after restarting 
<charlie-tca> I ran the 64bit encrypted install, and the restart has shut the monitor off
<charlie-tca> rebooted, did it again
<charlie-tca> oh-oh
<micahg> charlie-tca: RAOF might still be around in #ubuntu-desktop
<charlie-tca> I will assume it is hardware again. will run that test tomorrow now
<charlie-tca> I give up tonight
<charlie-tca> I have to unplug one drive in the computer to get the lvm encrypted install to work
<charlie-tca> I can't do that. I am running the same install in VBox to verify
 * micahg is heading to sleep
<charlie-tca> Good night, micahg 
<charlie-tca> Unit193: working for you?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I'm not doing encryption yet
<Unit193> Hung for a little, but I went and took a shower so it's fixed :P
<charlie-tca> I will finish these two I got running, and call it a night
<charlie-tca> I am pretty sure it is the hardware making the encrypted test fail, it did that testing alpha2, too.
<Unit193> Shouldn't the network bug go in the install and not the live?
<charlie-tca> It's issues with both SATA and PATA hard drive in the same computer
<Unit193> I'll run a VBox of that test tomorrow (or late tonight if you really want it)
<charlie-tca> It could, but it doesn't really matter. It did come up while installing from the live desktop
<charlie-tca> The only one I know will be against the install is bug 814060
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 814060 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "shares-admin crashed with signal 5 in g_option_context_parse()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814060
<charlie-tca> because I don't ever add users to the live session
<charlie-tca> and that crashes as soon as you select users and groups
<charlie-tca> I give up. I can't make anything work now
<charlie-tca> good night
<Unit193> Adios, I'll finish this and amybe another (one at a time)
<Unit193> Hmmmmm.... Still configuring system...
<Unit193> Still configuring, I'll call this a fail and try again tomorrow
<charlie-tca> Our alpha3 images are failing. The desktop images are starting the install and getting stuck at "Configuring target system..." forever.
<charlie-tca> There seems no way to make these work.
<charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit ^ ^ ^
<charlie-tca> both i386 and amd64 desktop images
<micahg> charlie-tca: bug 820284?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820284 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Oneiric DVD 20110802.1 i386 failed to install: /usr/lib/ubiquity/target-config/30accessibility: 41: log_end_msg: not found" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820284
<charlie-tca> yup
 * micahg disappears again
<charlie-tca> blamed it on too tired last night, but Unit193 said the same thing, and it does it today again
<madnick> Is there a work around?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> They will have to respin the desktop images again
<charlie-tca> but first, they have to fix them. This is a direct result of the fix yesterday to lightdm to force an auto-login for live sessions
<madnick> oh
<astraljava> Meh, probably respinning them too late, so I can't download at the office. :(
<charlie-tca> haven't even started yet
<charlie-tca> They are trying to figure out how to fix it
<charlie-tca> alternate images are working, though
<madnick> Ill get me one of those :) I was so dumb, I read the bug report and it said "DVD", so I went for a normal image and still got the problem, i need to read better
<charlie-tca> hey, I found the lightdm.conf for Xubuntu. It is in /usr/share/xubuntu/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<charlie-tca> in oneiric
<madnick> In todays images? 
<charlie-tca> in both live session and installations
<charlie-tca> although, for alpha3, live session will be over-ridden by a default file to give the auto-login 
<madnick> sweet, hope its the complete version, im installing now (53%)
<micahg> charlie-tca: the xubuntu settings package is supposed to move replace the lightdm.conf in /etc with the one in /usr/share
<micahg> charlie-tca: so, another casper upload just happened to overwrite any custom configuration, so we should get autologin
<charlie-tca> micahg: it's all symlinked to /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<micahg> right
<charlie-tca> so, yes, it should overwrite what we have to make it work
<micahg> but that's about to be blown away in casper
<micahg> at least for alpha3
<charlie-tca> but it will not over-write in installs, only on the live session
<micahg> right
<charlie-tca> which should be fine. What we have now is not working all that great
<charlie-tca> We can't even have the same color background each time
<charlie-tca> oh, by way, Good morning
<micahg> good morning to you too :)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu alpha3 alternate images fail encrypted LVM installs. Can not login after the installation
<charlie-tca> bug 820460
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820460 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Encrypted LVM install will not allow login in Xubuntu Alpha3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820460
<charlie-tca> I will put this in the release notes. It is getting to late to keep trying to test these.
<charlie-tca> We still don't have valid desktop images
<charlie-tca> Encrypting /home also causes login to fail
<astraljava> charlie-tca: So the respins are ready?
<charlie-tca> only the alternate images are ready
<charlie-tca> The desktop images will have to re-built again after they fix the bug blocking the install
<charlie-tca> 18 hours and I finally got the amd64 alternate image tested. That must be a record.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any workaround after we choose the wrong session?
<charlie-tca> If the wrong Xubuntu session is chosen, we get a fragmented xfce session. 
<charlie-tca> Next login, we can choose the other Xubuntu session, but it only changes the wallpaper
<charlie-tca> we still don't get the right panels, menu, applets, etc.
<charlie-tca> Deleting ~/.cache and deleting ~/.drmc doesn't work
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we really have to tell people to reinstall because they picked the wrong Xubuntu session?
<madnick> Also on the newest lat image, I picked "se" (using detect keyboard, that is swedish keyboard) but it uses US layout
<madnick> alt* :)
<charlie-tca> found it. We can release note it. If the icons don't appear, logout, rm -r ~/.config, login using the other Xubuntu session
<charlie-tca> it will work
<Unit193> I was about to say that fix (I've done something like that, picked Xfce Session)
<Unit193> I was just never able to fix GDM or my mouse :/
<charlie-tca> It's a long way around to login, if you haven't used it before, but it works
<charlie-tca> madnick: we are a ways from having things work, but we are gaining
<madnick> charlie-tca: just saying :) thing is that i could not figure out why i couldnt login, until i saw it used another keymap, but there is no way of changing at the login screen, so you have to dump to terminal and fix it
<charlie-tca> crap
<pleia2> hehe, oh my http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/08/linus-switches-to-xfce-calls-gnome-3.html
<charlie-tca> Ain't it great!
<madnick> hehe, g3 makes my desktop as useless as an android pad :)
<pleia2> old news I guess :) but phew
<madnick> i dont understand why they push those things
<madnick> g3 = gnome3
<charlie-tca> I don't know, but let's hope Xfce stays away from the "easy to use interface" thing
<pleia2> me too
<charlie-tca> I am beginning to really like linus
<madnick> you didn't before? :D
<charlie-tca> I have to say I do agree with his assessment of gnome3 and it applies to unity too.
<pleia2> well, unity was created because they saw that gnome3 was turning out to be.... an unholy mess
<pleia2> but yeah, I feel pretty much the same way about the both of them
 * pleia2 supposes this is better for -offtopic
<charlie-tca> yeah, I suppose it is. But isn't xfce likes and dislikes on topic here?
<Unit193> If I want to use Windows, I'll use windows :P "I'm using Xfce. I think it's a step down from gnome2, but it's a huge step up from gnome3. Really" :/
<pleia2> yeah, not exactly a glowing review but eh
<charlie-tca> That's because Xfce is still very young compared to gnome and kde
<Unit193> Better than what Gnome 3 got though :P
<charlie-tca> It really is still maturing
<Unit193> But it isn't bad as it is
<charlie-tca> I sure dislike that "no restart button" in ubuntu now
<Unit193> I haven't really tried Ubuntu and I even pointed someone I know in person to X/K/LUbuntu (Give him all the options!)
<charlie-tca> If they are coming from windows, the easiest one to learn is Ubuntu. But they are all a big change to set up and install software for.,
<charlie-tca> It is a real education to learn that you don't have to go find drivers and programs anymore. 
<madnick> When I was at uni, and netbooks were new, they all shipped linux, and me and some classmates got netbooks
<madnick> They said they were unsuable, until i got them to install ubuntu flavours, they never been happier :)
<charlie-tca> Great! 
<charlie-tca> it's all a gain for non-windows OS's
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-04
<micahg> well, xfce 4.10 is supposed to be focused on polish
<micahg> charlie-tca: I could reupload xubuntu-default-settings if I knew what to put in lightdm.conf
<micahg> but I figure it's too late at this point
<charlie-tca> I am not re-spinning again. If the images fail to install now, we won't have them
<charlie-tca> I went to dinner and just got back.
<micahg> k, np
<charlie-tca> I have 8 installs to do before the release. It isn't going to happen
<charlie-tca> I will get one in tonight
<charlie-tca> micahg: still can not install from desktop images. I have no choice but kill the milestone
<micahg> charlie-tca: wow, so Monday didn't help :(, aren't the alternates ok?
<charlie-tca> Can not encrypt /home 
<charlie-tca> I am killing the entire set
<micahg> k, better safe than sorry
<micahg> let me know if something I can fix needs fixing
<charlie-tca> It's really frustrating, considering I waited 8 hours yesterday for a fix that was supposed to take care of it, and waited again today 6 hours for the fix
<charlie-tca> It's not really safe, it is a matter of not usable
<charlie-tca> Monday I could install all the images. Today I can not
<charlie-tca> It's something Ubuntu pushed into the images
<Unit193> Seems nothing I can help with :/
<charlie-tca> bug 820731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820731 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Oneiric Ocelot Xubuntu Desktop images fail to install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820731
<charlie-tca> Well, considering I won't get nothing else done tonight, and the images will release tomorrow morning, it would take someone working however many hours to fix it and test them again
<charlie-tca> and they have about 12 hours total to get it done
<charlie-tca> They have thrown fixes at it for two days and it still fails
<charlie-tca> At least it makes the release notes real simple
<Unit193> Know if all the rest are having them?
<charlie-tca> They got Ubuntu fixed
<charlie-tca> I don't know if mythbuntu worked or not
<charlie-tca> micahg: I don't see any reason to publish alternate images that take a page of notes to explain to the user what to do if they log in to the wrong session
<charlie-tca> since nothing else works now, that seems like a bad thing for the user trying our cd
<micahg> charlie-tca: k, we could probably fix that, but I think it's too late at this point
<charlie-tca> yes, I agree. Of course, all of it is fixable, with enough time.
<micahg> let's get that stuff fixed in the archive at least this week if we can so upgraders from a2 aren't affected
<micahg> the double session I mean
<charlie-tca> yup
<madnick> ochosi: have you had the chance to think about the progressbar? :)
<charlie-tca> Well, we have developers working on the issue with alpha3 not installing. 
<charlie-tca> Maybe we will actually get some of the issues fixed or at least worked today
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Cool, is the discussion over on IRC, or not publicly available?
<charlie-tca>  #ubuntu-testing, but I seem to be the only failing the installs. jibel said it worked 
<charlie-tca> got a feeling it ain't gonna go nowhere
<astraljava> I'll run tests both on VM and real hardware tonight, so we'll know soon enough.
<charlie-tca> I think I might have one computer with hardware that is failing now
<charlie-tca> I have three installs going on hardware, going to find out
<charlie-tca> I won't release the alpha3 images. They just aren't working
<charlie-tca> I have two machines with the same failure, 32bit and 64bit hardware. Any user that encrypts /home loses all data on the hardrive
<charlie-tca> seems really bad
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: (re: lightdm & 2 xubuntu sessions) well, I did what was supposed to work. That's not my fault if lightdm has yeat another bug again. I could workaround that by setting "user-session=xubuntu" in lightdm.conf, but it defeats the whole default.desktop approach. :(
<mr_pouit> *yet
<charlie-tca> yeah, I know. 
<charlie-tca> I just put some heat on Ubuntu devs to get this working right
<charlie-tca> but I can't release either, when these images are failing so bad
<mr_pouit> at this rate, lightdm will be worse than gdm ;D
<charlie-tca> I agree. thinking about lxdm?
<charlie-tca> We are going to have to do something soon. 
<charlie-tca> OTOH, it is not lightdm stopping the installs. 
<mr_pouit> I haven't tried it recently. AFAIK Lubuntu intends to use lightdm as well anyway.
<mr_pouit> (they only reverted to lxdm temporarily for the alpha 3)
<charlie-tca> yes, because no one knows how the derivatives are going to be able to use lightdm. 
<charlie-tca> the way it is now, you take what ubuntu says or you fail
<Unit193> They will move back to LightDM when it's working
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: this is what seems to be blocking my installs now:
<charlie-tca> /usr/bin/casper-reconfigure: package 'gnome-power-manager' is not installed
<ochosi> madnick: ping
<madnick> ochosi: im here :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: robert is supposed to solve the derivative how to use question when he gets back from the desktop summit
<charlie-tca> yeah, well, that ain't gonna help us get alpha3 working at all :(
<charlie-tca> That is really bad timing for it
<madnick> ochosi: now im acctually afk for 5 minutes, need to make a quick phone call
<ochosi> madnick: np i'm also a bit on and off
<madnick> ochosi: okay, now im permanently back for the remainder of the night :)
<ochosi> okeydokey :)
<ochosi> madnick: do you have your plymouth stuff as svg?
<madnick> Oh sorry no, but i think knome has the drafts as something like that, because he was able to give me only specific elements
<ochosi> k, i see
<ochosi> well i have the wp, but not the logo i think
<madnick> i think the logo is at artwork, let me check
<madnick> hm, not the white one, but a coloured version exists
<ochosi> mhm, that's what i thought
<ochosi> well i can make it white, n
<ochosi> p
<madnick> okay 
<ochosi> madnick: do you need svg or png?
<madnick> png
<ochosi> k
<madnick> well, for the production 
<ochosi> cause inkscape is such a friggin resource-hog sometimes
<ochosi> madnick: very simple illustration of what i was talking about: http://imagebin.org/166386
<ochosi> the grey circle is the background, the white would fill the grey
<madnick> :)
<madnick> ochosi: there is a little problem with that, filling a circle is possbile, but the waiting time does not nessensairly stop
<madnick> there is no indication of boot time
<ochosi> there are several ways to deal with that
<ochosi> either refill the circle several times until it's done
<ochosi> or make it more spinner like
<ochosi> so mainly a small point that moves on the grey circle
<madnick> okay, ill try to make something that you can judge :)
<ochosi> madnick: the spinner could look something like this: http://imagebin.org/166390
<ochosi> or we can make a spinner a la firefox or osx
<ochosi> (the thing that looks like a daisy)
<madnick> okay, ill try to make a spinner first, then images can be swapped
<ochosi> ok nice!
<madnick> ochosi: i will be a bit delayed i think i hit a plymouth bug again
<ochosi> madnick: no problem, i'll go to the cinema now to watch a movie, probably be back later or tomorrow
<madnick> okay :)
<ochosi> but if you ping me i'll definitely read/see it tomorrow
<madnick> hehe, this makes me kinda dizzy :)
<davmor2> madnick: well stop spinning around on the chair
<madnick> davmor2: im looking at a spinning animation for prolonged periods :P
<davmor2> madnick: no you only think it's spining in reality it's your chair :D
<madnick> :D
<madnick> ochosi: i will need a fully transparent copy of the spinner :P but here: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/spinner.ogg
<madnick> acctually, now that i think about, im not sure why i did not rotate the entire spinner, wouldve been much easier :(
<astraljava> charlie-tca: What image did you have trouble with? I could try that first.
<charlie-tca> both destkop images
<astraljava> Okay, I'll try on real hardware then.
<charlie-tca> That's what I used. both desktop images fail to install here
<charlie-tca> They did install for jibel
<charlie-tca> unfortunately, no one knows why they failed for me
<charlie-tca> bad enough one won't work, but to have two hardware systems failing at the same time with different arches...
<charlie-tca> got an answer. casper depends on gnome-power-manager, which we do not seed. gnome-power-manager is deprecated!
<micahg> \o/
<charlie-tca> and the answer is: Why is gnome-power-manager required for casper?
 * micahg wonders what kubuntu does
<charlie-tca> it seems it only affects some hardware
<charlie-tca> and I happen to own two systems affected
<micahg> still, kubuntu must have the same issue
<charlie-tca> I didn't try theirs
<micahg> can you please?  I would think they would be affected the same way
<charlie-tca> okay, I can grab kubuntu desktop image and try it
<astraljava> Install splash still says I'm installing the latest version of Xubuntu, 11.04
<charlie-tca> we have a bug for that
<astraljava> Ok, good.
<charlie-tca> bug 813267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813267 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Plymouth says 11.04 in Oneiric" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813267
<charlie-tca> madnick is going to fix that when we get the new plymouth all working :)
 * charlie-tca maybe forgot to tell madnick
<charlie-tca> micahg: suggestion has also been made to try both lubuntu and mythbuntu
<charlie-tca> since Ubuntu desktop worked
<charlie-tca> :(
<astraljava> Mine won't boot after the installation was completed, even though I hit the Restart now button.
<micahg> charlie-tca: neither one of those have that seeded in their desktop, I'm not sure about the live session
<charlie-tca> I don't know
<charlie-tca> astraljava: really?
<charlie-tca> I never quite got that far
<astraljava> Yes, Ctrl+Alt+Del didn't help, had to to REISUB.
<knome> ochosi, i don't like the circle idea
<charlie-tca> The live session should auto-login the next build
<charlie-tca> I thought the circle was kind of neat
<charlie-tca> but my eyes are still really bad, too
<knome> it might be better with a semi-transparent non-active part
<astraljava> Now we have two Xubuntu Sessions in the dropdown box.
<knome> the unfileed circle is kind of weird, i think, and somehow it just doesn't "snap" visually with the loho
<knome> *logo
<charlie-tca> I am not prepared to ask either way, knome 
<knome> either way what? :)
<charlie-tca> astraljava: yes, and if you pick the wrong one, there is a 12 step program to get you back to the right one
<astraljava> Hahaha!
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/TechnicalOverview#Xubuntu-1
<astraljava> Should at least one of those be filled by default?
<charlie-tca> I wrote it down for you
<charlie-tca> yes, but that is another bug
<astraljava> Oh, you were being serious.
<astraljava> Damn.
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> hahaha
<charlie-tca> it's been a bad three days of trying to test for me
<astraljava> Seems like it.
<charlie-tca> At least it is only 6 steps to login to the live session, huh?
<charlie-tca> I guess I have had a bad day
<astraljava> Technically, yeah 6 steps.
<astraljava> But I liked the 12-step programme more. :D
<astraljava> I still can't create new shortcuts, though. /me scratches head
<charlie-tca> you can't ?
<charlie-tca> I can create a short note on how, if you want?
<charlie-tca> but I suspect that won't help you 
<madnick> charlie-tca: yes, that bug is fixed btw. (plymouth)
<charlie-tca> Well, at least fix-committed now
<charlie-tca> We can't mark it fixed until we have the new plymouth stuff in 
<madnick> okay
<madnick> And the progress bar :P 2 camps now, that is not good, we can't have both
<astraljava> charlie-tca: I go to Settings | Settings Manager | Keyboard, then Application Shortcuts. When I click on Add, the dialog appears but the Shortcut area has no entry field.
<knome> madnick, i'll discuss with ochosi about it :P
<madnick> knome: good :)
<charlie-tca> right, you type in the command first
<charlie-tca> then hit okay
<charlie-tca> then hit the key combination you want it to use
 * astraljava feels like dying
<charlie-tca> and there is no prompt you recognize when hitting those keys
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> it isn't like they don't make it easy, is it?
<astraljava> Could that be indicated a little bit more intuitively? I had no idea I was supposed to hit the key combo at that point.
<charlie-tca> hehheh
<charlie-tca> That is more intuitive now than it used to be
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> new people
<astraljava> Hehehe. :D
<charlie-tca> at least now you get an "okay" button
<astraljava> Right. :)
<charlie-tca> really. They did improve it a lot
<astraljava> Cool, but still I'd wish there'd be like a few words above it that say "Press the desired key combination now, please"
<astraljava> What I'm seeing is a typical example of a failed result dialog.
<charlie-tca> There are several bugs filed for that
<astraljava> Really?
 * astraljava faints
<charlie-tca> yeah, both in launchpad and Xfce bugzilla
<astraljava> xfce4 devs aren't about user-friendliness, are they?
<charlie-tca> well, to a certain degree only
<charlie-tca> I mean, they did add that Okay button
<astraljava> Okay. Well, good that I'm not the only one arguing about that. :) Says I'm not completely out there on UX design. :D
<charlie-tca> used to just get a blank box, that you had to know was for the command, then a blank to hit the keys at
<astraljava> Hehehe. :D
<astraljava> Do they code with their mice, too?
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> no, they use geany
<astraljava> geany's actually pretty good, just found out about the other day.
<madnick> geany is awesome!
<madnick> :)
<astraljava> Just had some problems with out projects' python files' indentations.
<astraljava> Which is a pretty big thing when it comes to, you know, developing with python. :D
<charlie-tca> so, see, they are okay!
<astraljava> Okay, I'll let them off the hook. :D
<charlie-tca> They just spend their time on real problems, not those "make it easy" ones
<astraljava> Anything in particular that you'd want me to test, or should I just poke around and file the results?
<astraljava> Agreed.
<charlie-tca> poke
<charlie-tca> you got it to work, then.
<astraljava> And those are excellent bite-sized bugs to fix for the young-ungs.
<astraljava> Yep.
 * charlie-tca is more depressed now
<astraljava> awww..... there.... there....
<astraljava> I should probably join #u-testing too, I'm a tad curious about how they're fixing these things.
<charlie-tca> they ain't
<astraljava> Oh. That's just for reporting/asking questions?
<charlie-tca> I been in -testing, -devel, -desktop, -bugs, -installer, -release today trying to find out what is wrong and how to get it fixed
<charlie-tca> They all agree, I got a bug
<astraljava> Right, gonna be fixed later, then.
<charlie-tca> and it is dandy bug, as far as they go
<charlie-tca> one of a kind
<charlie-tca> shouldn't happen
<charlie-tca> really strange
<charlie-tca> weird
<charlie-tca> but it is a bug
<astraljava> What's the bug number again?
<madnick> 820460 i think
<charlie-tca> bug 820731
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820731 in casper (Ubuntu) "Oneiric Ocelot Xubuntu Desktop images fail to install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820731
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Is that only with amd64, or didn't you say you tried both?
<charlie-tca> both
<astraljava> Okay.
<charlie-tca> two systems, one is 32bit and one is 64bit, and both failed
<charlie-tca> towards the bottom you will see my hardware is listed in a comment
<charlie-tca> oh, maybe not
<charlie-tca> someone said if you are not logged in, you don't see much
<astraljava> Yeah I see them. But... I don't understand. Shouldn't ubiquity then depend on gnome-power-manager, if it's going to use it? 
<charlie-tca> nothing should. it is deprecated
<charlie-tca> obsolete/unused
<astraljava> So... they _should_ fix that, then?
<charlie-tca> well, yes, I agree
<astraljava> But they're not?
<charlie-tca> well, I expect "they" are, but finding "they" is proving difficult
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<astraljava> I'll read a bit about casper and see whether that's not too much over my head.
<charlie-tca> I keep looking for they, though
<astraljava> Sure, sure. :)
<charlie-tca> Surely, Xubuntu won't be the only thing I can not install, will it?
<charlie-tca> If I can find the other ones that fail, maybe I can get more help?
<astraljava> stgraber seems to have made the most recent changes.
<astraljava> Sounds logical enough.
<astraljava> Ahh... the whole foundations team, actually, have been working on it recently.
<charlie-tca> just trying to get mr_pouit some help with lightdm. Is it working yet?
<astraljava> So it looks like g-p-m has been removed from casper, but not ubiquity.
<charlie-tca> when?
<astraljava> Can you specify 'working'?
<astraljava> Back in June.
<charlie-tca> working == lightdm usable by all of us, instead of just Ubuntu
<astraljava> C'mon! ubiquity branch, over 40 megs?
<astraljava> Yes, but what was the problem? How wasn't it working for us?
<charlie-tca> um, no auto-login, two sessions instead of one, no default session filled in, 
<charlie-tca> live session just got fixed for alpha3 (cause was lightdm configuration)
<astraljava> Meh, spoke too soon. The hook's still there. I misunderstood Brian's comment on the bug.
<charlie-tca> The way it is set up right now, the only possible default session for auto-login is Ubuntu
<charlie-tca> That's hard coded in lightdm
<charlie-tca> which means we can not change it
<astraljava> Oh, those! :D Well, yes, I can talk to mr_pouit when he's around, to see whether I can lend a hand in anything.
<madnick> i think that was hardcoded in the greeter?
<madnick> Im pretty sure i saw that
<charlie-tca> yeah, those little ones
<charlie-tca> madnick: where ever it is, we are not able to change it
<madnick> oh
<charlie-tca> micahg: kubuntu desktop64 installed on the same hardware
<micahg> :(
<charlie-tca> more depressing
 * micahg checks the seeds
<charlie-tca> will go download lubuntu next
<astraljava> Hmm... that hook should bail out cleanly if it doesn't find gnome-power-manager.
<charlie-tca> Oh, good
<charlie-tca> plantoschka: any idea on a news release that says we did not release alpha3?
<charlie-tca> We blame no one, all we said in the release notes is:
<charlie-tca> The Xubuntu images currently require several workarounds in order to be used, so are not being officially published with the A3 release. Known issues have been documented below for those wanting to work with the daily images. 
<charlie-tca> micahg: my installs so far on the same computer, no change other then the cd-r that was used:
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu Desktop amd64 installed good, Xubuntu desktop amd64 failed, two installs attempted, Kubuntu desktop amd64 installed good
<charlie-tca> and at least an hour for lubuntu to download
<astraljava> I would have to assume, without further investigation, that the next hook 40install_driver_updates is what's actually failing, since that g-p-m hook bailed out nicely.
<astraljava> Well, not necessarily, it won't output anything if it's succesful.
<astraljava> Actually, it won't output anything at all.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I'm thinking we don't put an announcement on the site, just something to -devel
<charlie-tca> people will be looking for the release, though
<charlie-tca> even though it is in the release notes
<astraljava> Basically, your Xubuntu installation is capable of dying during ubiquity's remove_unusable_kernels(), configure_hardware(), install_extras() or somewhere in configure_bootloader(), which is where I see the next output after casper-reconfigure says it cannot find gnome-power-manager.
<astraljava> This might take a while. :)
<astraljava> Well, that list should still include other hooks after 32gnome-power-manager, which are 40install_driver_updates and 49kubuntu_gnome_icon_cache.
<micahg> charlie-tca: hmm, can you run an md5sum on the CD-R for xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> yes
<astraljava> micahg: You're not part of foundations team by any chance? :)
<micahg> astraljava: no, security ")
<micahg> :)
<astraljava> Oh okay.
<micahg> but I was using xubuntu before I was an ubuntu-dev
<astraljava> Well actually, I should have been thinking about the installer team, anyway. I was still just stuck on casper, but the culprit lies in ubiquity.
<astraljava> micahg: Right, yeah.
<micahg> I haven't had a chance to dig into that stuff yet
<astraljava> Yeah, me neither. So it's gonna take a while to dig through all the aforementioned functions, and the possibilities that could kill it for charlie. Well, during the weekend, then.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Could you upload /var/log/installer/syslog from one of the successful installations, so that I could take a look and maybe find something that could narrow the search down a bit, please?
<astraljava> ...or send them to me in email or something.
<charlie-tca> pastebin or email?
<astraljava> Well, pastebin is fine, thanks!
<charlie-tca> micahg: how long does it take to pull md5sum from the cd?
<micahg> idk, as long as it takes to read it I would think
<micahg> 2-10 min depending on the drive
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Did you check the download updates while installing box?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> on all installs
<charlie-tca> micahg: 304a09cc663146dc7e4dcd217ef8d672  /dev/cdrom
<charlie-tca> astraljava: I am having issues getting syslog into kate
<charlie-tca> I could really learn to dislike kubuntu
<micahg> that doesn't match 20110803.2
<charlie-tca> nope
<micahg> maybe reburn and try again?
<charlie-tca> I have to through and do some calculations to make it not contain the extra space, then
 * micahg isn't sure md5sum /dev/cdrom is even the right way to do that
<charlie-tca> astraljava: http://paste.ubuntu.com/658915
<charlie-tca> micahg: calculating
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Thanks!
<charlie-tca> if I go away, I havve lightning and thunder in the area
<charlie-tca> did I tell you, I really dislike kubuntu
<astraljava> Haha! Then I shouldn't tell you that instead of keeping vanilla on this work laptop, I'm contemplating on installing either kubuntu or xubuntu instead. Oh wait, I just did!
<charlie-tca> still counting
<charlie-tca> no, you shouldn't tell me.
<charlie-tca> Kubuntu is too faded for my eyes to read the screen easily, and got too much stuff in the way.
<astraljava> Yeah I can understand that.
<charlie-tca> still counting
<charlie-tca> still counting
<charlie-tca> still counting
<charlie-tca> micahg: not sure this is ever going to finish now
<micahg> idk
<charlie-tca> using this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM#Check%20the%20CD
<micahg> according to that it takes ~10 min
<charlie-tca> here it is - 19815fe1a15674db6fa51b8960629bc3
<charlie-tca> looks to me like it took just over an hour
<charlie-tca> as in 1 hour and 11 minutes
<charlie-tca> does it match?
<micahg> that looks familiar
<charlie-tca> I am really hoping it is right, after that long
<micahg> 19815fe1a15674db6fa51b8960629bc3 *oneiric-desktop-amd64.iso
<micahg> so, it's not the CD, weird
<charlie-tca> even more strange - 705998848 bytes (706 MB) copied, 3619.29 s, 195 kB/s
<charlie-tca> the cd -r is only 673MB
<charlie-tca> I guess it is all in the numbers used
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-05
<Unit193> charlie-tca: This week is rather busy for me if we have any ISOs to test (Already started)
<charlie-tca>  no problem. I broke them good
<charlie-tca> goodnight all, I have to go take a break tonight
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: bug 789333 is going to be an issue for us. Any thoughts on how to work around?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 789333 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashes on start because of mixed GTK2 and 3 symbols" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/789333
<charlie-tca> If we use the gtk3 tool, it should work, but it also means we have to add gtk3 to the cd
<charlie-tca> Anjy reasons yet why Xubuntu desktop would not work?
<charlie-tca> madnick, micahg : any reasons why I could not install the desktop?
<charlie-tca> sorry, madnick. meant astraljava ^  ^  
<madnick> :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: not that I know of
<charlie-tca> this is going to be a good release team meeting
<madnick> ochosi: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/spinner-new.ogg
<madnick> fixed version
<madnick> (its 8 fps, so it seems to be lagging, but it does not IRL)
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Sorry, I haven't had time to look into that further since last night, work's been busybusybusy.
<charlie-tca> hm, I guess that excuse still has to be, then. work seems to get in the way of a lot of stuff.
<astraljava> Sadly.
<astraljava> I've put in 50 hours thus far this week, and might have to do more over the weekend.
<charlie-tca> Thanks for trying. It really is appreciated 
<GridCube> madnick, ochosi what about something like this? http://imagebin.org/166532
<madnick> Im neutral, I don't really know what fits the graphical profile
<madnick> GridCube: I do think the logo should be preserved however
<madnick> GridCube: http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/experimental-spinner.ogg :)
<charlie-tca> I like that one
<charlie-tca> That is really nice
<madnick> :)
<madnick> Well, there is acctually 1 thing I still need; test cryptsetup with this plymouth theme, I have been unable to do so 
<madnick> (it's acctually because the alternate CD's that I put on USB with Unetbootin cannot finnish installing)
<madnick> Even 11.04, I think its an unetbootin bug
<charlie-tca> um, I could not login after encrypting /home with the latest alternate images for oneiric
<charlie-tca> it won't accept the password
<charlie-tca> bug 820460
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820460 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Encrypted LVM install will not allow login in Xubuntu Alpha3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820460
<madnick> This might be a dumb question, but this happened to me and i realized it used the wrong keymap, could this be the case?
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> it's possible, I guess
<charlie-tca> but I would suspect issues with lightdm and policykit
<madnick> so much problems with lightdm :\
<GridCube> new things tend to break
<madnick> yup
<charlie-tca> astraljava, micahg : easy to find the problem with the install today. compare the image from 2011-08-03.2 and 2011-08-05
<charlie-tca> frustration level has now gone from "critical" to "completely gone"
<charlie-tca> today's images install on the same machine that failed for the last three days
<micahg> \o/
<charlie-tca> The only answer I have is "I give up"
<micahg> except the old images are gone now
<charlie-tca> I realized that late, and then I also over-wrote the image I had with zsync
<charlie-tca> Who would think today's image would work?
<charlie-tca> going bang my head on concrete, I guess
<astraljava> Interesting. Oh well. Such is life. Guess I shouldn't waste more time working on the problem, or?
<astraljava> I still haven't overwritten that .iso, so could there be something to be found?
<micahg> charlie-tca: there have been 2 casper uploads since the last respin
<charlie-tca> That has to be what fixed the images then
<charlie-tca> Kind of frustrating to have them work today after three days of broken
<charlie-tca> However...
<charlie-tca> Well, today's images need testing, please
<astraljava> charlie-tca: zsyncing now.
<charlie-tca> Thanks. Any testing today is appreciated!
<charlie-tca> well, any testing any day is appreciated!
<astraljava> Yeah. :)
<charlie-tca> but today is special :)
<charlie-tca> We don't care so much about the special tests, as will live session work and can you install any partitioning methods
<astraljava> Right, well, as I forgot to sync the images at work, I can only test i386 desktop, as that was the first one that appeared on the zsyncing list commands. :)
<charlie-tca> That's a good one, if you can only do one!
<charlie-tca> We actually have live sessions working here, and can install from the desktop too
<astraljava> Good, good.
<charlie-tca> GridCube: We need to test today's images if possible
<GridCube> alternate or live?
<GridCube> i zsyncked alternate yesterday
<charlie-tca> got to be today's image. It changed
<charlie-tca> astraljava is syncing the 32bit desktop
<GridCube> so when i get home ill do alternate?
<GridCube> do you want the encrypted /home test?
<madnick> Im doing encrypted lvm on todays image, but I got a question, if I find a bug, do I fill it in xubuntu oneiric, or at the projects (like lightdm project) section?
<charlie-tca> yes, try for encrypted /home if you can
<charlie-tca> but be aware, it destroys whatever is on the hard drive 
<charlie-tca> and if it fails, you can't get it back
<charlie-tca> madnick: file against the package affected. What is the bug?
<madnick> charlie-tca: It was theoretical, im installing at the moment, im quite new to launchpad tbh (im gonna make sure i find a tutorial)
<charlie-tca> easiest way to file bugs is open a terminal, type      ubuntu-bug PACKAGE       and hit enter
<madnick> ah sweet :)
<GridCube> ok charlie-tca :) will do the test on a vbox when i get home :D
<GridCube> see ya later :)
<charlie-tca> it will open a browser, you login to launchpad, and complete the report. It will attach all the needed logs
<astraljava> charlie-tca: How is the live session supposed to work nowadays?
<charlie-tca> fully after you log in
<charlie-tca> I think
<charlie-tca> You won't get it to autologin
<charlie-tca> If you get the xfce stripes wallpaper, you chose the wrong session and must restart
<charlie-tca> It is always the third session here. I get Xubuntu, Xfce, Xubuntu sessions, and pick the third one
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Right, but what user/passwd?
<madnick> a while back i used "ubuntu" -> "ubuntu" to login
<madnick> Dont know about todays images
<astraljava> madnick: Nope, doesn't go with those, but thanks.
<charlie-tca> user = ubuntu, password = none
<charlie-tca> none as in nothing
<charlie-tca> Enter ubuntu, hit enter, tab to sessions, down arrow three times, tab to login, hit enter
<charlie-tca> I wrote that into the release notes, too
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Sorry, didn't read those. Thanks for your patience!
<charlie-tca> no problem, at least we do have answers :)
<astraljava> Yep, and are kind enough to repeat them all the way down to feeling sick, I bet. :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: do we still have the user list on the login page in the live session?
<astraljava> I need to hunt down the test scenarios, but at least the live session seems to boot in properly.
<astraljava> micahg: Nope.
<micahg> :(, so the new meta did nothing
<charlie-tca> micahg: we only have the user "other..." on it
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> We don't seem to batting a very good percentage
<micahg> ok, well, we'll have to get this sorted after feature freeze then when robert_ancell returns
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> and if he doesn't care about anything except Ubuntu, we better find another display manger quick
<madnick> SLiM?
<charlie-tca> There are several possibilities out there
<madnick> Yup
<madnick> But SLiM is also very lightweight
<charlie-tca> Lubuntu went back to lxdm for alpha3, Kubuntu stayed with KDM because lightdm won't work for them yet
<madnick> and the dependencies for SLiM is neat :)
 * GridCube will start an install of alternate i386 whit encrypted /home
<madnick> I did that
<madnick> 1 sec
<madnick> yeah, the disk is OK
<madnick> the login issue is presant
<GridCube> so ill do it too XD
<madnick> i didnt mean you shouldnt :P I just forgot to report it back
<madnick> Because I was watching TV
<GridCube> madnick, you should fil the spreadsheet
<madnick> spreadsheet?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> let me a moment to find it
<madnick> okay
<GridCube> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AucFSttyWCevdGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc&authkey=CP282scF&hl=es#gid=1
<GridCube> there
<astraljava> The instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Short, regarding Settings Manager | Panel, are a little off. None of the sliders makes a difference when regarding the icons.
<madnick> oh cool
<madnick> Did not know there was a thing like that
<madnick> GridCube: i'd love to fill that in, but it is in a language i do not understand
<madnick> The Google thing
<GridCube> ?
<madnick> I dont wanna ruin anything
<madnick> Its in spanish or italian
<GridCube> its easy
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AucFSttyWCevdGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc&authkey=CP282scF&hl=en#gid=1
<GridCube> there
<madnick> thanks :)
<GridCube> XD changed the =es to =en
<madnick> yeah :D
 * madnick is ashamed
<madnick> GridCube: I fill in Alternate w/Disk encryption, should i fill any of the "5" fields?
<madnick> ill just do it to the best of my ability :)
<GridCube> no... thats the day..., just besides the day add your name and in the test you have done add PASS or FAIL and any thing you think its important
<madnick> GridCube: okay, done :)
<GridCube> :D charlie-tca will be pleased
<madnick> :D
<madnick> I worked with spreadsheets the last time in... 1998?
<madnick> :D
<madnick> Its was a bit hard
<GridCube> hahaha
<GridCube> XD
<astraljava> madnick: With Google Docs, they're coming back with a vengeange! :D
<madnick> :D
<GridCube> also google doc allows you to do formularies that one could fill up
<GridCube> i think charlie-tca should see about that, it would made the spreadsheet filling more interactive :P
<madnick> Well, I guess spreadsheets are better than what we used at my work :)
<astraljava> While also so much more complex, making them more error-prone.
<astraljava> madnick: PDF forms? :D
<madnick> even that be better! 
<madnick> the testers (which was also the devs), uploaded a checklist and info in a zip file to a ftp server
<madnick> ofc it had a nice front end :)
<GridCube> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc6MQ
<GridCube> XD
 * astraljava faints
<madnick> :D
<astraljava> Who came up with that procedure?! Some dinosaur from the '50s?!
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> its like the simpliest thing
<madnick> the thing at my old job? :D well, it was like this
<madnick> we didn't even have organized tests until an intern started working at us, then we started using ftp plainly, but the intern also wrote a GUI for it, then when he went back to school, we kept using it
<madnick> might be offtopic, sorry
<astraljava> Oh no, no horror story is ever OT, anywhere.
<astraljava> Not a good one like that, anyhow.
<madnick> found another bug, it does not honor my choosen keylayout
<madnick> seems what you enter in lightdm is presentet as "UNKNOWN"
<madnick> same with tty
<astraljava> Wait, what? Can you actually specify a keyboard layout on lightdm? Or are you not talking about the greeter, here?
<madnick> bdus rejects a send message from lightdm-greeter
<madnick> astraljava: you cannot, i dropped to root terminal recovery
<madnick> hm, good thing i have network, bad thing i dont have pastebinit :P
<micahg> charlie-tca: what am I seeding over the weekend?  pastebinit and pavucontrol?
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/errors.log
<madnick> can't find a workaround :\
<madnick> charlie-tca: want me to add to your bug report?
<GridCube> madnick, you should add it to your bug report
<madnick> GridCube: but i did not make one with launchpad
<charlie-tca> micahg: pastebinit and something I can't remember now
<madnick> oh you mean in the spread :D
<charlie-tca> I have to go look in the minutes
<charlie-tca> yes, If you can confirm a bug report, definitely add to it
<charlie-tca> It takes someone besides the original report to make it valid
<madnick> okay, ill do that
<madnick> Not sure which logs are useful, ill put in auth.log i think
<charlie-tca> You don't have to add logs even, just comments that you have the issue, and what is happening and what the date of the image is
<madnick> okay good :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: pavucontrol?
<charlie-tca> I don't know that we need it now with oneiric
<charlie-tca> micahg: evince?
<charlie-tca> I give up
<charlie-tca> I guess if we do pastebinit we should be good
<micahg> charlie-tca: I did evince for alpha3
<charlie-tca> We haven't decided to add gthumb yet, have we?
<charlie-tca> I really want to know what mr_pouit thinks of gthumb instead of ristretto ?
<charlie-tca> or do I it confused again?
 * micahg hasn't been keeping up
<micahg> gthumb is heavy lib wise
<micahg> I guess it's stuff we already ahve though
<micahg> it also adds .75MB
<charlie-tca> .75 shouldn't hurt, we are under 699 in all images
<charlie-tca> micahg: the biggest image today is 681MB
<GridCube> question: why is gparted on the livecd and not on the final system? i could never see the reason of that
<charlie-tca> GridCube: because it is a dangerous app for the new users
<micahg> GridCube: it's in the live seed, but not the desktop one
<charlie-tca> We want them to intend to have it, so they know what it is
<charlie-tca> people will play and try the installed stuff more so than the live session
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, if I get an ACK from mr_pouit, I'm happy to s/ristretto/gthumb/
<GridCube> oh ok
<charlie-tca> micahg: that would be great
<GridCube> charlie-tca, do you know how to fix the problem whit the log off instead of shutdown bug?
<charlie-tca> it is not fixable. The easiest solution is to logoff and then restart or shutdown from GDM
<charlie-tca> They have three choices in the screens, reboot, shutdown, log out
<micahg> charlie-tca: gthumb seems overkill for an image viewer though
<charlie-tca> They should log out, then do the others, that is very dependable then
<charlie-tca> micahg: we want it for the photo stuff more than just a viewer
<micahg> ah, we don't have a photo app at the moment, right?
<charlie-tca> it lets you crop, resize, etc, on the photos by default
<charlie-tca> right, no photo app now
<micahg> cool, the gthumb for simple image, gimp for advanced
<charlie-tca> yeah, that's it
<charlie-tca> But I want mr_pouit to ACK it. He would know more about why we don't use it than me.
<charlie-tca> and I will go with whatever he says on it
<GridCube> charlie-tca, feel free to delete the form i did if you wish https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc6MQ
<charlie-tca> delete it why? 
<charlie-tca> Isn't it easier to fill out that way?
<charlie-tca> Any special format for date?
<charlie-tca> like if I just put 5, will it work?
<GridCube> dunno you used  numbers so it should be it
<GridCube> but i think it will add them to the end of the spreadsheet
<GridCube> i havent tested it
<charlie-tca> OTOH, if I put 08/05/2011, will it work?
<GridCube> it will add that to the cell 
<GridCube> thats how i understand it
<GridCube> oh boy
<GridCube> yep i broke things, apparently it adds stuff at the begining of the table whit time stamps
<GridCube> so it added a new column at the begining for the timestamps 
<GridCube> sorry about that, you should be able to delete that i think, being the spreadsheet creator and all
<charlie-tca> Well if you can fix it so it works right, we want it
<charlie-tca> you can delete too, can't you? I gave everyone rights to do anything, except to the master
<charlie-tca> Oh, you broke July instead of August, even
<charlie-tca> I can fix it
<charlie-tca> you are doing fine
<GridCube> i did already
<GridCube> i think i've fixed it
<GridCube> but i dont know how to make it work correctly, the form i mean
<GridCube> unless we play whit the google doc rules
<charlie-tca> play with it and see. I can change to a real date format if need be
<ochosi> madnick: hey, thanks for the new spinner video. i talked a bit more about it with knome today and will continue in the upcoming days
<ochosi> madnick: unfortunately i'm rather busy in RL atm, so it might take a few days until i can come up with a spinner that works better with the logo
<madnick> okay :) 
<madnick> I had an idea, did you watch that too?
<ochosi> maybe knome will send you something in the meantime, who knows :)
<madnick> Well acctualyl it was GridCube's idea sorta
<ochosi> did you ping me with the idea?
<ochosi> i only saw a mockup by GridCube 
<madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/xubuntu/experimental-spinner.ogg
<madnick> Ofc it would look rather different
<madnick> but I just used what i already had
<ochosi> hm, in that case i'd drop the grey circle
<ochosi> and make the "ball" a "comet", if you know what i mean
<madnick> yeah
<ochosi> but it's a bit odd that the spinner isn't centered
<ochosi> the comet might work better anyway, btw
<ochosi> sry, really gotta hit the sack now, i have a rather long and strainful day tomorrow
<madnick> okay :)
<ochosi> but i'll try to have a peek in here tomorrow
<ochosi> just in case you come up with something new, ping me :)
<ochosi> otherwise maybe sunday, then definitely on monday
<madnick> okay, thanks, i look forward to it :)
<ochosi> yeah, me too. i really like what you've been doing so far!
<ochosi> k, anyway, nighty-night and see ya
<madnick> night :)
<charlie-tca> Maybe we should tell everyone, if you address us by our nick, we get a hightlight message to looka t
<charlie-tca> even when we are away, it will alert us to go look
<GridCube> charlie-tca, check the spreadsheet, i've made a new sheet on it
<GridCube> its for the formulary
<micahg> have a good weekend everyone
<GridCube> all the warnings you've added to the colums can be added to the form, so people can read them
<charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg 
<GridCube> but you cant make it on an existant sheet
<charlie-tca> You enjoy your weekend
<GridCube> it breaks things up
<charlie-tca> What will happen to it if someone manually enters information?
<charlie-tca> will that break it again?
<charlie-tca> and, when you ask which test to do, how do I tell you?
<astraljava> micahg: Thanks, you too!
<GridCube> charlie-tca, adding stuff to the sheet wont break things up ill. I'll show you how the form will look now
<GridCube> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc6MQ
<charlie-tca> Which one should I test today?
<charlie-tca> See, I look to see which tests I marked to be done so the same tests don't happen everyday
<charlie-tca> I'm curious why it won't work with other pages?
<GridCube> because its just meant to gather data, you could change the form everyday
<charlie-tca> I guess I will play with this thing and try to get it to do what you want
<GridCube> or, i could add a "To see what test are meant for today look at this cronogram"
<charlie-tca> for mon, tue, wed, etc instead of month at a time
<charlie-tca> well, that's what I get for thinking instead of typing
<charlie-tca> the first part of that was "Well, we could have something for "
<GridCube> oh yes we can have like if its monday you should do this ones, and so on
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> (i wonder how many people outside this irc channel do tests, we usually just ask)
<GridCube> D: so... im doing alternate i386 whit encryted /home and D: lightdm its just RED!
<charlie-tca> many
<charlie-tca> There are a lot of tests done daily, and a lot of automated testing gets done, too
<charlie-tca> red is nicer than pink
<charlie-tca> :)
<GridCube> :) ok so you like it like its now?
<charlie-tca> mine changes colors every boot
<charlie-tca> like what? lightdm?
<GridCube> where are the orders to get a log in?
<GridCube> sorry, two conversations at the same time, i meant the form
<charlie-tca> login to live session?
<GridCube> no to installed system
<charlie-tca> oh, let me think about the form
<charlie-tca> to installed system is what we been doing. click name, or Other and enter username, enter password, choose second Xubuntu session, login, if it is Xfce stripes wallpaper, go to 12 step plan on release notes and try again
<charlie-tca> heh, easy, huh? :)
<charlie-tca> got to go gardening now
<GridCube> it would be a lot easier if i remembered what user name i gave iti
<GridCube> :/ i didnt used one of my standard user names
<charlie-tca> If you used encrypted /home, it won't matter, you can not login cause it will tell you bad password
<charlie-tca> and you can not login to the tty either
<astraljava> GridCube: *tsk* *tsk* A deviation from the procedure. Strike one. :)
<GridCube> oh that should be it
<GridCube> oh... well
<GridCube> nothing there watching the folder from a rescue cd, but i guess that if its encrypted i shouldnt see it anyway correct? or is that i should see the folder but not access it?
<charlie-tca> and yes, I did install three times using the 64bit alternate and two times using 32bit alternate before I caught on to theat
<charlie-tca> s/theat/that
<GridCube> never used encrypted folders
<charlie-tca> right, you can not see it
<GridCube> oh ok
<GridCube> so i don't know what name i used them i think it was xutest, as i usually do, but i can not login
<charlie-tca> I seem to recall saying I had a really bad day trying to test this alpha milestone :)
<charlie-tca> I have two hard drives in each test machine, so I unplugged one drive and tried it, then tried on the other drive. 
<GridCube> ok i add FAIL then?
<charlie-tca> yeah, I think so
<GridCube> (or should i retry and this time pay attentio to what username i give it?)
<charlie-tca> it will still fail
<charlie-tca> try not encrypting /home if you want to try again
<GridCube> mmkay
<charlie-tca> I did not run full LVM encrypted without encrypting /home
<GridCube> :D do i fill the spreadsheet using my fresh new made form?
<charlie-tca> but I think you are not going to be passing it today
<charlie-tca> sure
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> Why does it need blank lines like that?
<charlie-tca> I will have to go dig around now. You got me curious.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-06
<GridCube> blank lines?
<GridCube> (gotta go to make some pizza dough, bbs)
<astraljava> pizza dough, bulletin board system-style?
<astraljava> Well well, waddaya know. Encrypted /home, I made it in.
<Unit193> You keep the same name every time?
<GridCube> bbs => be back soon
<GridCube> charlie-tca, want to help me test something (on the form i say) i want to know how the timestamp work, if it takes my time or if it uses a UTC time
<charlie-tca> looks like local time
<charlie-tca> Can it be told not to use any time?
<charlie-tca> just put a date in?
<charlie-tca> GridCube: see line 4; I entered it manually. Can't it just use date?
<charlie-tca> Of course, looking at the full sheet lets you see what has been done already, and the results. If using the form means we lost bug numbers and such, it will be less useful.
<GridCube> i can add a column for user added date and make it obligatory, then we just disregard the autofilled datestamp?
<charlie-tca> You can't tell it to auto use just the date portion?
<GridCube> no, i cant controll that first column its made by the form
<GridCube> it uses google time, it should be saying 22:52 from my local
<GridCube> but it says 19:52
<charlie-tca> so, how is it getting the date/time block filled in? Is that 'Timestamp' making it fill in?
<charlie-tca> hm, it used my local time zone, maybe because I am logged in to gmail, and it pulls the time zone from it
<charlie-tca> gonna try something
<GridCube> charlie-tca, it adds the timestamp automagically when you hit "submit"
<charlie-tca> I will have to dig into it tomorrow. too tired today
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> There has to be a way to force the formatting
<GridCube> i don't know, from what i can gather, it adds data to the sheet for the colums that you want to be added  whit timestamps taken from the google servers adn thats it
<charlie-tca> but there is a difference in your time and my time
<charlie-tca> ooops
<charlie-tca> I should have looked first, huh?
<charlie-tca> you are correct, it is putting what it wants in 
<charlie-tca> But I can format it to date only, after it is added
<GridCube> yes you can do that
<GridCube> also you can add stuff in after and add new lines
<GridCube> it will see only the "grey" lines
<charlie-tca> put an entry in using the form now
<charlie-tca> GridCube: got it
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> thats nice
<GridCube> :D how you did it?
<charlie-tca> format -> number -> more formats -> top date
<charlie-tca> but you have to use the keyboard and arrow keys, could not make the mouse do that
<GridCube> oh SCIENCE!
<charlie-tca> I just highlight the first colum and format it
<charlie-tca> I will work the rest later. Going rest now
<GridCube> :D 
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> good night
<charlie-tca> I like the easy entry, but it also means if all tests weren't done yet, you have to use more than one line per day
<charlie-tca> Going now. Good night
<steven> hello
<astraljava> Unit193: What did you mean by keeping the same name every time?
<Unit193> astraljava: Same username
<astraljava> Unit193: Yeah okay, but where? Testing? Should it matter? Or wait, was that for GridCube?
<Unit193> astraljava: No it doesn't really matter, but I change the username for each test so I can tell that it's not the same one
<astraljava> Unit193: Sure. Well, I don't really see the point, but if you have some procedure like that, who am I to argue. :)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<madnick> morning :)
<GridCube> hi
<GridCube> i need the latest greybird
<GridCube> what was the shimmer project page?
<GridCube> lol google did it
<knome> GridCube, :P
<knome> hey pleia2 
<pleia2> hey knome 
<knome> did you check the improvements on our test wordpress installation?
<pleia2> I did! it's looking great :)
<knome> good to hear you like it
<pleia2> thanks for fixing the image placement, my netbook is happy now :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> np
<knome> that had to be done
<knome> i'm actually thinking one improvement to the page that is dramaticish
<pleia2> there was one weird thing I noticed, lemme see if I can remember...
<knome> first, remove the rounded borders from the "content frame"
<pleia2> oh yeah, in the blog part if you make the resolution too low the menu on the right disappears
<knome> make the area with the logo #fff bg
<knome> and the content area something a bit greyish
<knome> and replace the blue line with some kind of elegant shade
<knome> too low == about what?
<knome> and it shouldn't disappear really... i can't confirm that at least
<pleia2> like 800x600 will do it
<knome> for me, it scales fine
<knome> which browser?
<pleia2> hm, only in chrome
<pleia2> firefox seems ok
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> but as I shrink my chrome window *pop* it disappears
<pleia2> heyyy stop that chrome
<knome> can you scroll to the bottom of the page and see if it's under the content?
<knome> (should be...)
<pleia2> it's not
<pleia2> I looked :\
<knome> hmm...
<knome> sudo apt-get install chromium-browser?
<pleia2> I'm using google-chrome
<knome> there is no such package
<knome> is that from a PPA maybe?
<pleia2> google has a repo, sec
<knome> i'll try with chromium too
<knome> that's a weirdish bug
<pleia2> deb http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
<knome> ah yeah...
<knome> crap :)
<knome> i see...
<pleia2> it resizes fine with the image, it just doesn't like the menu
<astraljava> Hey! There's a lady in our presence. Stop swearing! :D
<pleia2> haha
<knome> well yeah.
<knome> i'm going to fix that right now.
<pleia2> \o/
<knome>   |
<madnick> \
<madnick> ops
<knome> :(
<madnick> want to make legs but it cut off the / :P
<astraljava> madnick: It wouldn't have worked anyway, not enough whitespace at the beginning.
<knome> the only correct legs are /'\
<madnick> :D:D
<astraljava> Hahhaha
<astraljava> knome: sexist much?
<pleia2> no cookies for knome
<knome> it's not sexist
<knome> pleia2, no cookies even if i'm fixing the website? bah ;)
<pleia2> knome: get back to fixing the website! ;)
<astraljava> *whiplash*
<madnick> knome: did you reach any conclusions when talking to ochosi btw?
<pleia2> my fiance got me an android cookie cutter, there will be android cookies at the linuxpicnic.org event this year :d
<knome> madnick, not yet :)
<knome> pleia2, :P
<madnick> okay :>
<astraljava> pleia2: Unfair to hold it at this time of the year. We'd be freezing our a$$es off if we went to the park at that time. :)
<pleia2> astraljava: when is it not freezing? :)
<pleia2> it actually doesn't matter when we have it around here, we always have the same weather (always picnic perfect!)
<astraljava> pleia2: Here in Oulu? Random days mostly between last days of June and last days of July.
<astraljava> pleia2: Oh? And where is that?
<pleia2> astraljava: san francisco bay area
<astraljava> grrr
 * astraljava turns green all over
<pleia2> we pay for perfect weather in earthquakes
<astraljava> Maybe. But we've got polar bears to dodge.
<knome> seriously, chrome is not being very nice
<knome> :P
<madnick> astraljava: Svalbard? :o
<pleia2> boo chrome
<pleia2> oh, time to head out
<pleia2> later all
<knome> see you
<astraljava> madnick: Well, not exactly, no. I might have cheated there, just a tad.
<madnick> :D
<astraljava> Later, pleia2 
<madnick> cya
<knome> pleia2, the bug is fixed
#xubuntu-devel 2011-08-07
<astraljava> Ahh... the meeting is tomorrow evening, right?
<madnick> Yes, at 19:00
<madnick> UTC :)
<Unit193> /topic?
<Unit193> Hmmm... May want to add time? Or is that just me?
<madnick> Would be good :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: any opinion on s/ristretto/gthumb/?
<Unit193> ^^ Can't even change topic??
<astraljava> Unit193: No, the channel has +t
<Unit193> astraljava: I was point above
<astraljava> Only the Ones with the Power can do that.
 * Unit193 checked the power list
<astraljava> Ahh... gotcha.
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-08-08, 19:00 UTC | Oneiric images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
 * Unit193 pats knome on the head :D
<knome> ta
<knome> btw, lots of updates/improvements in our test site: http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/
<Unit193> Thanks for linking me [Lag: 20.99] :(e
<knome> pleia2, the next thing is to get a few screenshots with same aspect ratio up, so the frontpage isn't as chaotic as it is now
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-30
<micahg> mr_pouit: sure
<micahg> mr_pouit: done
<mr_pouit> bluesabre: as soon as possible :P (one week before is good usually). And we can push to debian independantly anyway, since testing is frozen)
<mr_pouit> micahg: thanks.
<micahg> ooh, so if the unity dependency tree gets yanked from update-manager, then that should give us another MB or so back, still need to find 10MB more just for i386 alternate...
 * micahg will have to find some time to dig for more spurious recommends
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-31
<pleia2> knome: we need to do something about docs :\
<Unit193> cat /dev/urandom >> xubuntu/docs  ?
<pleia2> maybe outline the issue (docs are hard) and see if someone on list who volunteered wants to come up with some way to handle it?
<kalxas> hi all, I am a developer from OSGeoLive project http://live.osgeo.org/en/index.html
<kalxas> we have a problem creating an installable iso based on 12.04
<kalxas> we are using all methods available and get the same issue.
<kalxas> the system installs ok and during the first boot we get an error about not being able to mount /run
<kalxas> we use this method here: https://gist.github.com/2838416
<kalxas> but also remastersys
<kalxas> both give the same problem
<kalxas> so we are now wondering if you know something about this issue
<pleia2> kalxas: welcome :) I'd recommend emailing the xubuntu-devel list, not all the devs are always active here
<pleia2> I met one of the OSGeoLive folks at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in May, good stuff
<kalxas> hi pleia2 
<kalxas> did you meet Brian or Alex?
<pleia2> kalxas: unfortunately I don't remember :\
<kalxas> no problem
<kalxas> we are ready for RC1 and we have this blocking issue now
<kalxas> all applications and documents are in place
<kalxas> thanks pleia2 for the suggestion, I am going to post to xubuntu-devel mailing list
<pleia2> astraljava: some of the links on the qa tracker for our isos are wrong, how do we go about fixing these? like this: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/19880/testcases/134/results
<pleia2> that's the desktop image, but it's linking to alternate
<knome> pleia2, yup.
<pleia2> I'll write a draft
<knome> thanks
<knome> i can chime in, though i'm enjoying a beer currently ;)
<knome> wait
<knome> wasn't there a draft alread?
<pleia2> draft email to send to the list?
<knome> http://typewith.me/p/RT4qAanipe
<knome> y
<pleia2> oh yeah
<pleia2> my poor brain
<knome> there was a reason to postpone this so that i'll be back
<knome> was it just that i'm available or was there something else too?
<pleia2> I think that's it
<knome> ok
<knome> we need to rethink the list
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> do we want to mention the specific roles?
<pleia2> I don't think so, and I think we need to somehow mention that there isn't a doc lead, so we're sort of feeling our way along here
<knome> those are not so exclusive, but otoh, because we made people choose, i think we should actually tell who should do what
<knome> ok, done changes
<pleia2> ok, I made some changes too, maybe we sleep on this and send it out tomorrow
<knome> sounds good, though i think we've sleeped on it a lot already ;)
<pleia2> yeah well :)
<knome> ;)
<knome> yeah, doesn't hurt to sleep one more night
<knome> about the sameish time tomorrow we send it then?
<knome> hmm
<knome> do we have a meeting tomorrow?
<knome> what's the normal schedule
<micahg> I probably will not be here
<knome> beta1 isn't around the corner just yet?
<pleia2> I thought we were supposed to have one last week, so I don't know anymore :)
<pleia2> no, alpha3 was just a few days ago
<knome> yeah, but that was because of a3
<knome> i think it's next to meaningless if we announce it today though...
<micahg> only devel updates I'm aware of are mr_pouit did some merges/syncs and I got a fix committed to drop a chunk of the unity library dependency tree from our images
<knome> if people turn up, just keep an informal meeting or so
<micahg> well, I filed the bug and someone else committed the fix
<knome> i can try to be around about the time we have had meetings
<knome> micahg, :))
<knome> micahg, nice
<knome> pleia2, does that sound fair? ^
<micahg> it's only ~1MB or so though, not that exciting, but something
<knome> 15UTC it is
<knome> micahg, btw, what's our size?
<micahg> same as before alpha3 without the ballooning
<micahg> ~735 on desktop
<micahg> amd64
<pleia2> whatever :)
<pleia2> I'll wake up at 15:00 UTC
<knome> is there something we can still drop rather easily?
<knome> or should we start taking a lot of time to sort it out?
<knome> python issues still around?
<knome> or was that gimp..
<knome> meh
<knome> :<
<micahg> no idea, I need to dig more
<micahg> gimp is keeping gtk2 in
<knome> okay
<micahg> err
<micahg> webkitgtk1.0
<micahg> that's ~7MB
<knome> mmh
<micahg> there are probably more bad recommends somewhere, but we might need to drop something in the end to stay CD sized (I think we could still drop a language or 2 if desired ~10MB each)
<knome> not desired really...
<micahg> ok, so, let's see where we end up, it'll probably be another week before I can devote any serious time to this
<micahg> *at least another week
<knome> how much was it again that gimp would drop?
<micahg> gimp with dependencies?  ~50MB at this point I think
<knome> mmh
<knome> not as much as i hoped, but okay ;)
<micahg> it was ~40, but with libwebkitgtk1.0, it's almost ~50
<micahg> or so I think, I could be wrong, but it's certainly enough to make all the images under 700MB again
<knome> :)
<Unit193> How much is gmusicbrowser anyway?
<knome> not too much, it's perl
<knome> we're not dropping it if there's no alternative, and i doubt most alternatives would take at least the same space :)
<knome> (except some cli stuff..)
<micahg> yeah, it's tiny
<Unit193> Just wondered.
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-01
<malv> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1001936 for this bug is the  patch going to be applied to the Precise version? I was able to apply the same patch that fixed XFWM 4.10 to XFWM 4.8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Precise) "GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pleia2> so, we doing a little meeting?
<Dawnbandit> Does anyone know how I can get the base of Xubuntu?
<pleia2> Dawnbandit: "the base"?
<Dawnbandit> Ugh, its hard to describe, I want to build an OS based on Xubuntu, so i need the "core" so to say to build on to.
<pleia2> I assume you'd take it from the .iso, but I don't know specifics
<Dawnbandit> ok
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization might be helpful?
<pleia2> Xubuntu is similar to Ubuntu in how it's put together, so typically you can reference Ubuntu docs for this sort of thing
<Dawnbandit> Yea, I just wanted to be sure
<Dawnbandit> Thx
<Dawnbandit> Oh, and if you were wondering the name of the OS is going to be Tabuntu...
<kalxas> hi pleia2 thanks for your reply :)
<pleia2> kalxas: I assume that is the wiki you were using, just wanted to be sure
<knome> hm?
<kalxas> yes this is what I am using
<pleia2> knome: kalxas is from OSGeoLive, which creates a distro based on xubuntu, having trouble creating a custom iso of 12.04
<knome> aha
<kalxas> hi knome 
<pleia2> I'll give it a spin this evening, then I might try again with an ubuntu iso (would be interesting to know whether the error is xubuntu-specific
<knome> i'd imagine people at other channels could be more helpful generally
<knome> i mean, with problems on that (i read the email)
<knome> hello kalxas 
<kalxas> it seems that this was some problem with a mount 
<kalxas> gvfs is mounted in the lightdm /var/lib folder 
<kalxas> which seems to be fixed now
<kalxas> but I now have another issue after installation, lightdm refuses to start up
<pleia2> well, progress :)
<kalxas> and failsafe mode is not working either
<kalxas> :)
<pleia2> knome: oh hey, ready to send the doc email? (you're sending right? :D)
<pleia2> it looks good to me
<knome> am i??
<knome> :D
<pleia2> I actually don't mind doing it, August is my stay at home month so I'll be around
<knome> oh!
<knome> well
<knome> i have it at TB
<pleia2> TB?
<knome> thunderbird
<pleia2> oh good, you send :)
<knome> sent
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> bleh, i just updated my commercial website
<knome> seriously, that's the single most distressing thing to do
<knome> i mean, in the business
<knome> hmmh.
<knome> today, i need to send some email
<knome> no, tomorrow
<knome> brain fail
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-02
<knome> madnick, heh, np
<bluesabre> I don't know if any of you use Quickly, but there's a "Quickly Reboot" hangout happening now...  http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/on-air/
<bluesabre> Also, on #quickly
<kalxas> hi pleia2 :)
<pleia2> hey kalxas, I didn't get very far with testing last night but I see you've made some progress
<kalxas> yes, I managed to install with success. The problem seems to be the user account I create during chroot (in order to trick the installer script to create some postgres data). After removing this user (or creating different username in installation) I can sign in the installed system
<kalxas> thanks for taking the time to test :)
<pleia2> sure, I've never actually done a respin before so it's been fun, even if not very helpful ;)
<kalxas> yes that help me understand debian/ubuntu systems better
 * kalxas is openSUSE member
<pleia2> my actual job is debian sysadmin, but we tend to use pretty vanilla base debian installs with our packages deployed after install
<pleia2> (makes our deployments much more portable for things like virtual machines we don't control, like linodes)
<kalxas> I guess this kind of respin could help you deploy faster
<pleia2> yeah, it has got me thinking
<kalxas> before getting involved with osgeolive I was using susestudio for this kind of stuff
<kalxas> it is very useful to create custom disks, I hand out such custom disks to my students with class related material 
 * pleia2 nods
<kalxas> so I don't hear excuses like "it did not work on my pc" :D
<kalxas> I am now trying to figure out why remastersys blocks mounting /run 
<kalxas> the remastersys developer says that I customized lightdm, which I did not do...
<pleia2> hrm
<kalxas> I would definitely need some lightdm guru's opinion on that
<kalxas> he also told me that he used xubuntu 12.04 for his initial testing of remastersys 3.0.x
 * kalxas is stuck on this issue
<pleia2> remastersys is the alternate method you were using previously, right?
<kalxas> ye
<kalxas> yes
<kalxas> I had planned to switch to this chroot method for OSGeoLive 6.5 and stay to remastersys for 6.0
<kalxas> and I have a 6.0 release in 7 days
 * pleia2 nods
<kalxas> so it is not a good time to switch methods...
<pleia2> yeah
<kalxas> there are over 50 geospatial application by the OSGeo foundation in it and all need testing if I change method
<kalxas> it will bring me back to beta1 stage
<kalxas> pleia2, thanks for listening to my problems :)
<pleia2> sure :)
<kalxas> pleia2, since this remastersys issue seems to be lightdm related, could I easily change to gdm?
<pleia2> kalxas: as I understand it, the switch from gdm to lightdm was a pretty big deal, so I don't think it would be easy
<kalxas> basically I did an "apt-get install gdm" and I got a question if gdm should be the default manager
<kalxas> so I selected gdm and now I am doing a new build to see if that works.
<pleia2> ah, I guess we'll see :)
<kalxas> yes :)
<kalxas> if it does not I will have to send out an e-mail to 50 projects to redo their tests 
<kalxas> on the chroot iso
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-03
<knome> micahg, are we pushing any fixes to 12.04.1?
<mr_pouit> knome: nothing Xfce related (there are several bugs targeted though, but nobody has done the SRUs yet)
<knome> mr_pouit, shimmer themes?
<mr_pouit> nope, no SRU has been done by me ;<
<mr_pouit> (micahg has done webkit/firefox/thunderbird/chromium I think, but no xfce either)
<knome> k
<knome> is there reason to do xfce SRU's?
<mr_pouit> xfwm4 patch for gtk3.4
<mr_pouit> (also lightdm-gtk-greeter bugfix, but that's not xfce)
<micahg> knome: as mr_pouit said, nothing xfce related, the blueman crash bug should be fixed, but I probably won't have time to look at it before 12.04.1
<knome> micahg, okay
<pleia2> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tasksel/tasksel.git;a=commit;h=2a962cc65cdba010177f27e8824ba10d9a799a08
<pleia2> oh golly
<pleia2> will be interesting to see if this sticks
<micahg> hehe
<micahg> we've been talking about it in other channels for hours :)
<pleia2> ah, a friend just forwarded me the commit :)
<micahg> was posted on debian devel about 3 hours ago
<pleia2> yeah, just caught up with the thread
<micahg> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/08/msg00029.html
<Unit193> pleia2: Nice!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-04
<kalxas> hi
<kalxas> I am trying to follow https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization#Advanced_Customizations for xubuntu 12.04
<kalxas> I have managed to change the live session user name as described
<kalxas> but I fail to do so with the password and the background image
<cc_INC> Guys, does it make sense to ship conky with Xubuntu by default or this that too nerdy and confusing for Xubuntu targeted users?
<knome> well, we're *kind of* investigating it, but i think the most we're going to do is ship some conky *layouts* by default, but not necessarily conkny
<knome> conky too.
<cc_INC> Cool. Conky layouts kick ass :)
<cc_INC> Thanks for your answer knome
#xubuntu-devel 2012-08-05
<pleia2> cool, PauloRibeiro has started working on docs in the wiki :)
<kalxas> hi
<kalxas> anyone here?
<mips1911> Why does xubuntu not apply the same font config as ubuntu? I'm not talking about the actual fonts used but the rendering.
<GridCube> last meeting listed here was for july 18 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings 
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> im sorry i could not attend to that one :(
<knome> GridCube, we probably need to have one next week.
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> good
<kalxas> hi all
<kalxas> anyone around?
<elfy> knome: if you do want anything put across on the forum - they did go and make me an admin - 'you' might not think the forum's that good a place - buit I bet that having a Xubuntu admin is better than not  ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-29
<GridCube> knome: i've noticed that there is no way to search the old news of the xubuntu site neither an easy way to reach http://xubuntu.org/news/category/news/ 
<knome> GridCube, "News archive" on the frontpage
<knome> GridCube, i'm doing some redesign on the site though which should fix those issues
<GridCube> :| i searched for like 30 minutes today and more the other day and i never noticed that
<knome> GridCube, also search? maybe.
<knome> i agree it isn't optimal.
<skellat> LP Bug 1206145 looks interesting
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1206145 in thunar (Ubuntu) "xfce segfault & complete system failure after Thunar crash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206145
<pleia2> GridCube: hm, I think I submitted a screenshot
<pleia2> I can't figure out this thing :)
<GridCube> you uploaded it to your account, but you did not proposed it to the group. see in the image page under the download area, there is a "submit to a group +" link
<pleia2> pfft
<pleia2> ok, sorted
<pleia2> I clicked on the "+ Submit to this folder" on the Proposed folder page before
<GridCube> :D very good
<pleia2> not sure why it didn't actually, you know, submit the new thing to that folder :)
<GridCube> its there now, you should be able to vote for it to pass to the proposed folder from the message center
<GridCube> lderan: vote you too so it passes please
<pleia2> woo, voting for myself
<lderan> will do
<GridCube> :D
<lderan> done :D
<lderan> slow internet today :(
<GridCube> i love how different yet very simple all the submissions we have now are
<pleia2> GridCube: shall we publish this post? :)
<GridCube> sure :)
<pleia2> ok, prepare for the deluge!
<GridCube> should take a few screenshots of the site to add it?
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/announcing-xubuntu-desktop-showcase/
<pleia2> I just added default
<lderan> awesome :D
<pleia2> do we need to specifically tell people to submit to the "Proposed" folder?
<lderan> its the only option i think
<pleia2> ok
<GridCube> :D hehehe we are already getting some submissions
<pleia2> \o/
<lderan> :D
<GridCube> though they dont comply with the rules
<GridCube> P: they dont have a prgram open to see the theme
<pleia2> people never read the rules, it will be a tedious process :)
<GridCube> :D dont worry
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-30
<pleia2> magazine came in
<pleia2> it's so exciting to see our stuff in print :)
<pleia2> http://www.linuxidentity.com/us/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5067
 * pleia2 makes knome look at the blinking icon
<Unit193> Why would knome have a blinking icon for irssi?
<pleia2> irssi?
<pleia2> on the link I gave :)
<GridCube> 13.04 its lts? 
<GridCube> im confused
<Unit193> No.
<GridCube> well... then that link its wrong
<pleia2> yes, they are indeed mistaken in their text
<GridCube> lol that would make me doubt on the rest of the magazine accuracy
<pleia2> we didn't do editorial review of that stuff ;)
<pleia2> thanks for the encouragement
<GridCube> if i didnt knew that the text where actually writen by people who knew theirs stuff
<sak> I was surprised when the magazine said 13.04 was an LTS. The next LTS want be available until 14.04
<pleia2> yeah, oops
<sak> The issue was only covering Xubuntu?
<GridCube> hahaha, pleia2 can you send them a mail about that?
<pleia2> a little over half is Ubuntu, the rest is Xubuntu
<GridCube> P:
<pleia2> GridCube: yes, anyone can, emails are free :)
<GridCube> D: THEY ARE!?
<pleia2> :P
<pleia2> sak: pretty exciting for us though, never had this much of anything in print devoted to us afaik (certainly nothing we've been involved with)
<sak> Free emails? Aren't emails free anyway?
<pleia2> sak: yeah, I'm just giving GridCube a hard time because he's voluntelling me to do stuff ;)
<sak> LOL
<sak> Well, that would be the first I have saw. Usually, the ubuntu magazines I have read cover mostly ubuntu unity. Xubuntu must of made an impression
<sak> http://www.projectcc.org/
<GridCube> pleia2, :D we got a very nice lot of submissions already! http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/gallery/?44567713
<pleia2> GridCube: yeah, I logged in a bit ago and gave +1s (I won't make a habit of it, very busy, but I was excited)
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> in any case, its just the moment hype, in reality i dont hope more than 3 per week
 * pleia2 nods
<GridCube> though the people on g+ does seem to like to share their desktops pretty frequently
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> we may have to nag the folks in that g+ group often
<pleia2> and by we, I mean GridCube 
<GridCube> :P
<pleia2> :D
<sak> I like to share my desktop as well. For popularity points :)
<sak> The picture Gallery on the Xubuntu-Showcase are pretty cool.
<sak> Does anybody like the menu items surrounded by borders? I don't the way it looks. Really hurts my eyes.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/mir/0.0.8+13.10.20130730-0ubuntu1 boom.
<Unit193> (Note, proposed universe)
<Unit193> Now just need xmir (yes, it's somehow different than Mir), driver patches, and unity-system-compositor. :P
<Noskcaj> elfy, FYI, the change to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/Manual was unnecessary, i make sure that shotwell is current for that very reason
<elfy> the change was obviously necessary as someone followed it to an out of date testcase
<Noskcaj> elfy, i mean, i updated shotwell yesterday
<elfy> someone pointed me to it - it was wrong - I changed the wiki - there is nothing to argue about
<elfy> I'm too busy atm to even worry about a wiki
<Noskcaj> ok, and i'm not saying it's wrong, i'm just saying it was unnecessary.
<elfy> good lord
<Noskcaj> I assume https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1206690 affects us too
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1206690 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "lubuntu ubiquity slideshow should provide OEM slideshow to show at OEM config stage" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-31
<micahg> mr_pouit: what do you think of creating a Xubuntu team on alioth to maintain packages that pkg-xfce and others don't want
<mikodo_> I think, that Xubutu-devel, needs to formally release a statement, that Xubuntu in the future will be staying with Xorg, either with Xmir (undecided as yet, for 13.10) , or if not going with Xmir, then will be staying with Xorg only, like Xfce is planning. I am seeing a lot of FUD from people that Kubuntu and Lubuntu are not going with Mir, while the insinuating, that Xubuntu is going with Mir. Are they trying to grab supporters
<mikodo_>  of Xubuntu this way and soon to be converts from the EOL of Win XP? Again, I think this should be addressed formally, like Kubuntu and Lubuntu, seemingly have. Thanks.
<mikodo_> Here is an example of the FUD, I am seeing:    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2164089
<Noskcaj> What's needed to make a xubuntu OEM slideshow? The current lack of one is very annoying
<pleia2> what's an OEM slideshow?
<Noskcaj> pleia2, When the user runs OEM config, there is meant to be a slideshow, only ubuntu currently has one. It looks very bad without one
<pleia2> I see
<Unit193> Does anyone use it?  How long has it been undetected.
<skellat> Noskcaj: Could you please give us some links to the source image files on Launchpad within the relevant package for the OEM slideshow so we can see what it looks like there?
<Noskcaj> it's part of the ubiquity slideshow package. bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I assume some people do
<skellat> Let's try here instead: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/files/head:/slideshows/oem-config-ubuntu/slides/
 * skellat notes Launchpad Librarian doesn't handle symlinks well
<skellat> Our slides are here in contrast: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/files/head:/slideshows/xubuntu/slides/
<Noskcaj> That's a strange bug. By clicking "set encoding" in xfce terminal, you crash the program
 * Noskcaj regrets runnning "make" on the slideshows.
<Noskcaj> I have nearly got the xubuntu-oem-slideshow going though
<xnox> skellat: in ubuntu oem vs normal slideshow, is copy & paste sans one or two slides more-or-less + updated slideshow config file to say that it's an oem slideshow.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-01
<skellat> xnox: That's what I saw looking at the branch via Launchpad Librarian.  I hope Noskcaj comes up with something interesting to scratch whatever itch he's got in the matter.
<luke_> Anyone around?
<pleia2> usually, we all kind of lurk
<luke_> i wanted to join the testing team
<pleia2> great :)
<pleia2> did you have any questions in particular?
<luke_> not really, just want to jump in there :)
<pleia2> that's the way to do it!
<pleia2> middle of the night for the guy who leads up testing, but most of us can answer questions if you encounter any issues
<luke_> how does the testing work? can you break it down for me?
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/want-to-help-out-xubuntu-test-raring/ is an article from a few months ago when we were testing raring (now testing saucy)
<pleia2> explains a lot of the basics
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Walkthrough has a full walkthrough of testing ISOs
<luke_> is there any code testing? what i mean by that is unit testing?
<Unit193> Nobody tests me, I'm (mainly) stable.
<pleia2> we currently don't do any traditional unit testing
<Unit193> Sometimes it's requested to test some application, like Mugshot.
<luke_> okok
<pleia2> since Xubuntu is made up of a bunch of applications we pretty much trust that the source of the software has done testing and we mostly test things as a whole - installation of Xubuntu, basic functionality of key applications
<pleia2> all manual at this point
<luke_> ok
<elfy> pleia2: thanks for talking to luke last night 
<elfy> which just looks too odd now I posted it ... 
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi Noskcaj - thanks for keeping up with merges
<Noskcaj> np
<Noskcaj> I've made an OEM slideshow for xubuntu, hopefully it will get accepted soon
 * elfy read that 
<elfy> might not have had much time this week - but I have been reading the backlog
<knome> Noskcaj, have you sent your form to the magazine?
<Noskcaj> knome, yep
<knome> Noskcaj, okay, good
<knome> Noskcaj, and have you already got the agreemend and signed that?
<knome> *agreement
<Noskcaj> i think so
<knome> okay, good good
<knome> we're able to finish this magazine thing soon then
<Noskcaj> knome, just incase you've not read the scrollback, i made an oem slideshow for xubuntu
<knome> i didn't, you didn't ping me
<knome> where do you have the branch?
<Noskcaj> lp:~noskcaj/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/oem-xubuntu i thinl
<knome> ok, i'll try to check it out today
<bluesabre> maybe I should put this here instead, so that knome, mrpouit/mr_pouit, or micahg might see
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-gtk-greeter-updates/+merge/177959
<bluesabre> also, ochosi/mrpouit: the gtk theme in saucy is still the old one without gtk 3.8 or lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6 support
<Unit193> Ah, so could poke https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-s-artwork
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193
<Unit193> Heh, sure.
<knome> bluesabre, saw that, didn't have time to review yet
<pleia2> jjfrv8: are we pretty much all set for 12.04 docs?
<knome> pleia2, yup
<pleia2> need to get it all wrapped up for sru
<knome> pleia2, i just came home and i can run through it with you if you have time
<pleia2> and I should upload it to docs.xubuntu.org
<pleia2> knome: I can make that work, give me 20 min or so?
<knome> yeah, same here (i need to plug in and that)
<pleia2> knome: hihi
<knome> o/
<pleia2> ok, shall I download and build this thing?
<knome> pleia2, so basically, the 1204 docs should be fine in the technical side (eg. the menu paths should be correct etc etc)
<knome> sure, if you want to have a look at it ;)
<knome> i've gone through all of jack's MP's, and merged
<pleia2> great
<knome> they are all fine, and we will want some of them applied to the saucy docs as well
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> do we need to do a specific call for starting on the saucy docs, or does jjfrv8 have that handled?
<knome> i've asked him to send the same improvements as MP's to the saucy branch and AFAIK, some other people are working on it, but a call never hurts
<pleia2> ok, I'll see about doing that soon
<pleia2> so what else needs to be done with precise?
<knome> after all, the saucy docs are more open to all kind of improvements and expansions
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> well, probably a quick run-through and then the SRU
<pleia2> ok, looking now
<knome> cheers
<knome> i think the SRU was also a good test for the docs to see if it's release-agnostic enough (and i think we passed)
<knome> ah, i see something that can be further improved :)
<knome> hmmwait
<knome> no, it's there
<pleia2> :)
<knome> we should probablt note that apt-offline isn't available by default in 12.04
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1204/ but didn't link it to the main page yet
<knome> pleia2, pushed rev 65
<pleia2> k
<knome> i'm ok for the docs to start going the SRU route.
<knome> woo!
<pleia2> +1
<GridCube> when its the next meeting?
<GridCube> its its or is
<knome> is
<knome> we should schedule.
<GridCube> mmmhmm i fail at is
<knome> eg tala ekki islensku a annan weg
<GridCube> i would really like to have some follow ups for the mir subject
<GridCube> even if there is some test i could help do
<knome> from non-xubuntu side, or xubuntu people poking at the mir team?
<pleia2> GridCube: Unit193 and I have been talking about it for days :)
<knome> Unit193 has been building some ISOs and stuff
<pleia2> GridCube: did you see Unit193's iso?
<GridCube> how are we going and stuffs
<GridCube> no
<pleia2> Unit193: link for GridCube plz
<GridCube> was a mail about it?
<Unit193> 3 pings all very quickly, I broke something...
<pleia2> no, just on irc
<GridCube> oh ok
<pleia2> and we've been updating http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir
<knome> Unit193, if it's okay for you, can you send a mail to the list announcing the mir ISO?
<pleia2> I think I might make a youtube video
<knome> woo pleia2 on a video!
<Unit193> http://vanir.unit193.tk/dump/xubuntu-13.10-xmir-i386.iso.zsync or http://vanir.unit193.tk/dump/xubuntu-13.10-xmir-i386.iso
<pleia2> Unit193: assuming it's ok to share that iso link (on your home connection?)
<Unit193> (There's an md5sum file too.)
<Unit193> pleia2: VPS, just crappy domain.
<pleia2> ah ok
<knome> we don't care if you don't care...
<knome> pleia2, can you talk with jjfrv8 about a shell?
<GridCube> its safe enought to install on real hardware? like if i install it on a partition of my netbook?
<pleia2> knome: of course
<knome> pleia2, ta
<Unit193> GridCube: Well you can't use it in a VM, but live booting is a fine test.
<pleia2> jjfrv8: if you'd like a shell, just email me your preferred password and your id_rsa.pub key to use (or link to one in lp)
<GridCube> live ok
<knome> GridCube, never install testing stuff on production machines.
<GridCube> that could do
<Unit193> (I use grml-rescueboot: drop ISO in /boot/grml/, sudo update-grub, and reboot.)
<GridCube> thats why i'm asking, i would like to know if its safe enough because this might be our default desktop in less than 2 months
<knome> jjfrv8, if you need help with the shell stuff, feel free to ask me or pretty much anybody in the channel
<GridCube> i find this matter really worrying
<GridCube> well i have to go home now
<Unit193> Dowh, was going to ask him for his inxi -G...
<skellat> This still bothers me as a boot result from the latest ISO: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/skellat/audiobox-profile?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=IMG_0039.JPG
<pleia2> knome: oh right, so you handling getting the docs srued now?
<knome> pleia2, was hoping you would have done that, but i can do that as well
<knome> pleia2, or we can delegate to skellat if he's up to it
<pleia2> knome: I don't know how :)
<skellat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<skellat> And I need to scramble to find a charger for my laptop...
<skellat> brb
<knome> pleia2, i don't know the exact process either, but AFAIK, it's similar to freeze exception paperwork
<pleia2> I don't know how to do that either ;)
<knome> stop giving excuses! :P
<skellat> pleia2: There is a bug that has to be filed.  The wiki link has the template
<pleia2> I vote for delegate to skellat 
<knome> me too, if he's up to it
<knome> skellat, you comfortable with doing it?
<pleia2> it just magically creates the package from the branch?
<knome> pleia2, i don't know about building magic...
<skellat> pleia2: No, there is an SRU team to review things
<skellat> There is criteria to consider here for if we qualify for SRU process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
<knome> skellat, we do.
<knome> skellat, there will be nobody saying we can't do that SRU. if somebody says, point them to me
<skellat> Okay
<knome> skellat, it's a no-brainer: it affects nobody except xubuntu, it can't break other packages
<skellat> pleia2 will need to work with me on this as I need a bug control master to nominate for series once I do the paperwork
<knome> skellat, neither me or pleia2 can do that afaik
<knome> or we can probably both nominate
<knome> so just ping us if you need us.
<skellat> If you can change severity, you can do it
<knome> skellat, so can i mark you as the assignee now? ;)
<skellat> Not yet
<skellat> Is the changelog completely done for this?
<knome> i'm comfortable with out changelog
<skellat> We'll need to insert some "Closes LP#" language in there
<knome> *our
<knome> you need to file that bug first then...
<skellat> But I gotta create the bug first so we can have that
<knome> yeah
<knome> so can i now set you as the assignee? be assured i will give you all the support you need.
<knome> :)
<skellat> Go for it
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> Unit193: is inxi in the repos or just that ppa?
<skellat> Did we actually ship proper documentation with 12.04?
<bluesabre> it seems like that would be super helpful to have in the repos
<Unit193> !info inxi saucy
<knome> skellat, not really, the docs were from far away
<ubottu> inxi (source: inxi): full featured system information script. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.9.12-1 (saucy), package size 115 kB, installed size 438 kB
<bluesabre> woot!
<skellat> bluesabre: It should be in ppa:skellat/tests done via backportpackage
<Unit193> bluesabre: Installed in the ISO too, for reasons. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> thanks again skellat. i'm just so much more comfortable somebody running the process, even if they asked me about it every day. 
<knome> so anybody else want to take any other bug assigned to xubuntu-team at http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-flavor-xubuntu.html ?
<knome> looks like there aren't too many. yay!
<knome> elfy, can you confirm if the testcase bug statuses are up-to-date?
<knome> elfy, seems like there are many inprogress
<knome> elfy, and/or todo
<bluesabre> i'll take this one:
<knome> elfy, if you want, i can run through them with you later today
<elfy> the in progress ones are afaik
<bluesabre> [smd-seandavis] Work to gain packageset uploader rights for Xubuntu through Developer Membership Board process: TODO
<knome> bluesabre, that's already assigned to you :P
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> elfy, abiword is set as "TODO"
<knome> elfy, xfce appearance settings as "INPROGRESS"
<knome> but i thought i have already done those.
<elfy> I'll loook 
<knome> done as in added to the tracker
<knome> cheers
<knome> anything that is in the tracker (even the admin side) can be marked fix released
<ganglere1> How do the "Test Needed" qa's work? They're in need of a test case to be written?
<knome> ganglere1, yes
<elfy> ganglere1: yep
<elfy> I might to be honest move the autopilot ones
<elfy> not really any chance of them getting sorted afaik
<bluesabre> elfy, I can help a bit with the autopilot ones if I find free time
<elfy> ok 
<bluesabre> I played with it a bit, doesn't seem too hard
<elfy> tbh I am still firmly on the fence 
<knome> elfy, oh, ah, those are autopilot tests
<elfy> knome: some are :)
<knome> elfy, we should rename the bugs that it was clear they are
<elfy> I'll sort it out in a bit
<elfy> yep
<elfy> knome: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testcases
<elfy> there they need to be? 
<knome> elfy, yup
<elfy> thought so 
<bluesabre> oh good, I didn't have to ask for the link
<Unit193> We aren't shipping translations in docs?  I've been seeing po files come in.
<elfy> I'll work through it all now 
<skellat> !info xubuntu-docs precise
<knome> Unit193, no, i should look how to do that.
<ubottu> xubuntu-docs (source: xubuntu-docs): xubuntu documentation. In component universe, is optional. Version 11.10.0 (precise), package size 728 kB, installed size 1960 kB
<Unit193> knome: That, re-write SD, setup meetings, you have a lot. :P
<knome> Unit193, sure.
<knome> Unit193, rewriting the SD is taking half-a-day and just getting on with it :)
<skellat> LP Bug 1207493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1207493 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Documentation does not match shipped system version (11.10 shipped with 12.04)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207493
<knome> skellat, does those changes look like what you need?
<skellat> knome: Which changes are you referring to?
<skellat> Ah
<skellat> Those changes
<skellat> Not fix completed
<skellat> Was the changelog updated to add the LP bug number?  If not, I'm working on a merge proposal real fast.
<knome> skellat, i'll do that in a minute
<skellat> I'm pushing a branch up now for MP
<skellat> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/precise/+merge/178156
<knome> skellat, thanks, merged
<elfy> knome:  when you got a minute can we just run through adding a testcase 
<knome> elfy, sure
<knome> elfy, are you ready now?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> sorry - not looking at timestamps :)
<elfy> knome: whenever you are 
<knome> lol
<knome> so open the admin
<knome> then go to the testcases tab, and click "add a testcase"
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> then find the id
<knome> now you should have the bzr branch open
<knome> no
<knome> you don't input the id
<knome> just get a test from the branch that doesn't have an ID
<elfy> they all have that I can see
<skellat> knome: The SRU is filed and our involvement for the moment is done.
<knome> skellat, ta
<knome> elfy, in that case, there is no testcase to add.
<elfy> mmm
<knome> elfy, or somebody has come up with an ID
<elfy> so it's there somewhere?
<knome> anyway
<knome> you basically copy-paste the testcase content
<knome> and add the title
<elfy> oh 
<knome> THEN the tracker will show what ID is linked with that test
<knome> and then rename the file in the branch and commit/push the changes
<knome> so as testcases in the branch shouldn't be given ID's if nobody has added them to the tracker
<elfy> knome: so something is wrong - in http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testcases
<elfy> 1589 is Xfce4 Thunar Volman
<elfy> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/files/head:/testcases/packages/
<elfy> 1589 is Time Administration
<knome> elfy, yes
<knome> elfy, somebody has "guessed" an ID for time-admin in the branch
<elfy> ...
<knome> elfy, if you look under "Xfce", thunar volman is also 1589
<elfy> yep
<elfy> so someone is just guessing at id's 
<knome> yup.
<elfy> that's helpful
<knome> anyboby that isn't a tracker admin and inserting tests shouldn't give tests ID's
<knome> that's what the mess was the last time as well.
<elfy> indeed
<elfy> well I know for fact it wasn't me - I've only looked at it the last time we did :)
<knome> yeah.
<elfy> right - well I - perhaps stupidly assumed these things talked to each other - and you could just tell it an ID
<elfy> I've not got time to do all that tonight - I'm just having a break from dealing with the sso fallout
<elfy> I'll have to look - I should be able to follow the log here
<knome> i can fix that later
<elfy> I've gone through the bugs - renamed OUR a/pilot stuff so it is obvious
<elfy> checked all the bugs - marked those on tracker as released
<elfy> EXCEPT settings manager - that needs to be checked to make sure all bits are tested somewhere
<elfy> so https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-s-qa is up to date
<knome> ta
<elfy> 10 left commited - working from the bottom - stuff at top is all autopilot
<knome> :)
<elfy> still showing 13% of 56  - I guess it's not caught up
<knome> yeah, it's not live
<knome> it'll update at some point
<elfy> Last updated: Thu 01 August 2013, 18:59 UTC tomorrow I guess :D
<knome> that's an hour ago
<elfy> yea - bet it'll do it 2/8/13 @ 18:59 :)
<knome> it used to be once in an hour-3 last cycle
<elfy> knome: just so I have it right in my head - a testcase on branch with a bad ID - how would you un-ID it?
<elfy> I'll work on it all over the weekend then
<knome> elfy, just rename it to not have an ID.
<knome> elfy, or add it to the tracker and rename to new ID
<knome> elfy, but as i said, i can look into that later today... :)
<elfy> ok
<knome> (once i've stopped confusing poor balloons)
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> :)
<lderan> poor balloons
<Unit193> Also, ISO is growing it would seem. :/
<elfy> don't know about confusing balloons - does me 
<elfy> I just find it hilarious how unjoined up the qa stuff is 
<knome> there's just a bit too many levels for packages
<knome> for ISO's, they all make sense
<elfy> not what I mean - in a sensible world - you'd merge a testcase - give it a number - go to packages.qa - give that the number - done
<knome> in the ideal world, there was a script that did that for us
<elfy> :)
<knome> and that would be completely doable with the API
<lderan> doable you say mmmm
<knome> ;)
<knome> well there is a python API...
<lderan> python you say mmmm
<lderan> i can give it a shot :)
<knome> heh, well you should ask balloons first ;)
<lderan> where is this balloons?
<knome> #ubuntu-quality
<knome> but it's my turn to pester him now >:)
<knome> he's the ubuntu/canonical qa lead
<lderan> okay i shall poke him after
<jjfrv8> knome, hi. I'll e-mail pleia2 the info she requested for getting the screen set up.
<knome> jjfrv8, awesome. if you need help with that, or setting the screen up after, just ping people in the channel
<jjfrv8> I was trying to avoid letting the world see how ignorant I was about that stuff :) I've got it running now headless on a Raspberry pi but that has its disadvantages too.
<Unit193> Hah!  Awesome!
<knome> :)
<elfy> knome: ok - blueprint is up to date again
<knome> elfy, goodie
<elfy> there's still a few to do - I'll look at those over weekend - need to do it myself 
<knome> mhm
<knome> or just wait others to pick them up
<elfy> no - I meant there are 3 merged that need to go into packages tracker
<elfy> not testcases :)
<knome> aha
<elfy> I'll also look at testcases that can be in testsuites
<knome> did you read my discussion with balloons today?
<elfy> kind of - in between talking to people in forum :(
<knome> we probably want to leave the obviously shared stuff, like firefox and thunderbird, out of the xubuntu product
<elfy> yea - wouldn't move anything that was like that
<knome> yup, good
<elfy> xfce window manager for instance - needs to be on packages and in xfce testsuite
<knome> yup!
<elfy> I'd forgotten you had to recreate the testcase - which was why it was making no sense to me :)
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> knome: any reason not to link up new 12.04 docs on the website now? (updated to version 65)
<pleia2> s/website/docs site
<knome> no
<pleia2> k, on it
<knome> ta
<pleia2> there we go, shiny
<knome> ooh ooh :)
<knome> i like our docs progress.
<pleia2> yeah, we're like a real operating system \o/
<knome> haha
<knome> something like that
<skellat> pleia2: Once you're done, could you pretty please update LP Bug #1207493  with a comment to mention you've updated the website docs and give a link to such?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1207493 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Documentation does not match shipped system version (11.10 shipped with 12.04)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207493
<skellat> Adding the comment will help with questions from the SRU team
<pleia2> hmm, should probably just add xubuntu-website to the affected projects
<pleia2> there we go
<skellat> Noo
<skellat> Not that
<knome> pleia2, not really...
<knome> :)
<pleia2> oh?
<skellat> I meant literally just add a comment stating "Our online public-facing documentation has been just updated at http://docs.xubuntu.org to reflect what is in the requested stable release update."
<knome> s|org|org/|
<pleia2> skellat: ah, well this communicates the same thing, should be ok
<skellat> Just need something like that to add tracking for the SRU team.  
<skellat> Okay.  Somebody needs to poke Scott Kitterman or Brian Murray to look at the SRU proposal then.
<knome> skellat, done @#ubuntu-release.
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> no problem
<GridCube> pleia2, can i pm you?
<pleia2> GridCube: shoot
<Unit193> So since it's being sent to the list, any last changes requested to the page?
<pleia2> it's lovely
<pleia2> but it is testing of XMir - so might want to be clear about that
<pleia2> XMir != Mir :)
<Unit193> Hah, only because Pasi made it to be. ;)   I thought that was pretty clear, but alrighty.  XMir uses Mir, sooo.
<Unit193> But, sure.
<knome> Unit193, yeah, i get that highlight too :)
<Unit193> Figured you would.
<pleia2> quick, stop talking about gnome with a k behind his bad!
<pleia2> back too!
<Unit193> But you wouldn't if I used your surname!  (Mainly because I would spell it very badly.)
<pleia2> Unit193: pro tip: it's in his whois
<Unit193> (And /who, ident)
<pleia2> indeed
<knome> lol ;)
<knome> heh, actually i do have my surname on the highlight too
<knome> maybe you should all try to spell it without looking at it
<Unit193> s/Mir/XMir/ done.
<knome> and i could add that to the hilight list too :P
<Unit193> ohanillaL
<pleia2> canonifolks tell me that mailing list archive queuerunner is going again, should take a few hours to get archives up to date again
<pleia2> maybe by tomorrow we can tweet GridCube's ml post
<knome> duh. :)
<Unit193> GridCube: Thanks for posting!
<knome> Unit193, i see what you did there!
<Unit193> Hrm, I didn't make a note that it had to be on real hardware, and that virtual machines don't count...
<knome> Unit193, you can still fix that.
<Unit193> Hrm, wording, wording... After making public! :D
<Unit193> I didn't indicate the use of DVDs, but people are smart enough to figure that out, right?  "...to add the ISO to grub.  However you do it, you can not use a virtual machine." ? :P
<knome> they can just ask if they don't understand.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-02
<GridCube> :) im making a booteable SD card :D
<slooksterpsv> has anyone test out the XMir iso of Xubuntu?
<Unit193> I've done 3 with the new spin.
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> (Not just me of course, just answering for myself.)
<slooksterpsv> I know it's alpha, but I may run it as my primary linux os just to see what glitches, bugs, etc. I have using it day to day with XFCE apps
<slooksterpsv> do you feel it's becoming mature enough to completely replace X?
<Unit193> Heh, must be working better than it did for me.  Not right now I don't, no, but that's me.
<slooksterpsv> by the way this is my primary alias, on Xubuntu side I come in as shawnb - it's been busy so I haven't done much but I saw the email for the XMir and am pretty excited about it
<Unit193> pleia2: Poke, still around?
<pleia2> si
<Unit193> That was quick.  Mind if I crop everything above my nick to "we're collecting" in the pad?
<pleia2> go for it
<Unit193> Boom, ta.
<sak_> finally got freenode.net working on my android
<Unit193> Hah, congrats.  yaircc?
<sak_> thanks 
<pleia2> Unit193: do we want to collect the feedback again for mir folks?
<pleia2> I mean, we are collecting, but emailing it to them :)
 * GridCube thinks we should
<gian> i admit i'm not very knowledgeable about these things, but...
<gian> if you'll be staying with xorg (which i personally hope), do you know if you will depend on xorg components not supported by canonical?
<gian> if so, perhaps it would be a good idea to liaison with other flavors in the same boat about how to manage the xorg situation
<elfy> pleia2: I'd agree wiuth GridCube - but let's not be in such a hurry this time to do it - give people enough time to actually try it
<GridCube> gian: in order to take that desition we need lots and lots of real hardware testings
<gian> GridCube: yes, among other things, agree
<GridCube> gian: you should read http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-07-11-15.00.log.html
<GridCube> :D
<gian> yes, I was present at the meeting
<GridCube> oh, then you know how its going to be, canonical will not provide support for xorg, and soon engoun not even xmir if i didnt missunderstood
<gian> hm, not sure that's exactly the full picture, but then i'm not very well acquainted with the technical intricacies
<gian> it looks to me as a bit of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation
<GridCube> we are in a weird place
<GridCube> yes
<gian> indeed
<pleia2> gian: so there wouldn't need to be a lot of direct collaboration with other flavors, we all use the same exact packages (xorg in this case) so as long as *someone* is maintaining it and we're all testing + filing bugs it should just come together like it always has, even if Canonical isn't paying much attention to it
<gian> pleia2: agree, i was thinking about that someone
<gian> if there turns out to be no such person around, that means you basically have no choice
<pleia2> well, if no such person comes around then we just do a direct sync from Debian, where someone is maintaining it
<pleia2> but I'm not worried
<pleia2> enough flavors and derivative will continue to use xorg for now that it'll be handled
<gian> i hope so too
<gian> not that switching to debian would be very painful, but i really like what you have done with xubuntu
<gian> and at least up until now, the ubuntu base has been pretty solid
<Unit193> pleia2: Well, didn't get much/any helpful feedback, IMO...
<pleia2> Unit193: I disagree
<pleia2> maybe we didn't get a lot of quantitative data this time, the feedback we have now is important
<pleia2> are there any systems where it worked better?
<pleia2> maybe for skellat, since it was working for him all along
<Unit193> I was just saying last time didn't go very well, but you are free to disagree. :)
<Unit193> (We do have more info this time, yes.)
<pleia2> well they fixed our issues from last time
<pleia2> we need to keep communicating if we're serious about trying this thing :)
<pleia2> woo, mailing list archives are finally caught up to august!
<pleia2> knome: care to tweet? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009205.html
<knome> sure
<knome> tweeted
<pleia2> I put it on the facebook and g+
 * pleia2 passes around the troll repellent
<Unit193> Heeey!
<pleia2> good to be prepared
<knome> ;)
<skellat> pleia2: Even if XMir boots for me it is only doing so on an End Of Life netbook from System76.  I can't get it to work on our production audio machine for The Burning Circle and other programs.
<pleia2> skellat: have you tried the latest image?
<pleia2> curious to see progress from everyone who tested previously if possible
<Unit193> Yeah, the best computer here doesn't crash on mir, but would be far better as it'd fall to xorg.  Completely unusable...
<skellat> pleia2: Yeah, got a cascade of apport failures in booting on the System76 netbook.  I took a picture of what I got on-screen on the super-critical audio production computer here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/skellat/audiobox-profile?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=IMG_0039.JPG
<pleia2> good golly
<skellat> The netbook is ultimately expendable in the grand scheme.  The audio production computer isn't.
<knome> i just got the inspiration for the next xubuntu wallpaper!
<pleia2> lol
<skellat> The parent wiki page has the full lshw output for the XMir developers to mull over
 * knome can't find wiki.ubuntu.com/Parent
 * knome hides
<skellat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/skellat/audiobox-profile
<pleia2> thanks, seeing your notes in the etherpad now
<knome> i know. i'm just telling some really bad jokes.
<skellat> :-)
<Unit193> skellat: Is that an image with the background of the current session?  If so, that's better than the stuff happening here! :P
<skellat> Unit193: No, that's me taking a shot with a camera of what's shown on a 32 inch display
<Unit193> Sure, but if the image on the monitor is of the current session, then it's more or less right.
<skellat> Unit193: It is only more or less right if one has consumer massive quantities of hallucinogenic drugs, though
<skellat> s/consumer/consumed/
<skellat> My hands were very steady on that
<gian> but...does it at least feel fast and slightly smoother? ;)
<skellat> I had to pull the plug on that machine as it was unresponsive with that trashed display image and would not even bail out
<Unit193> How well does it work to take a video of a monitor? :P
<skellat> Hmm
<skellat> I can run such again and post it to YouTube
<knome> Unit193, badly. i've done that to indicate a failure in the monitors output
<Unit193> Bleh...  So we're booting a live system, the Lord of the Rings ring is the background on the real system.  When in Mir, I see the One Ring, Firefox (which wasn't open before shuting down.), and something else pixelated all over the screen, changing with every twitch of the mouse.
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> Not sure I can explain it any better.
<knome> ugh...
<skellat> brb
<skellat> Ran another test, attempting to upload it to YouTube, will post link once it is up
<elfy> knome: http://pad.ubuntu.com/4XGwzaC0JI
<elfy> starter for 10 ... 
<knome> optional/mandatory looks good
<knome> power manager and settings manager could be run once
<knome> i think xfdesktop and appearance are different enough - if not, we should rather look at merging them
<knome> same with xfwm4 settings/wm
<elfy> ok
<knome> does that make sense to you?
<elfy> I just made some quick notes
<elfy> I need to sit down with the settings manager - there might be some in there that should be mandatory and others not
<elfy> if that's the case we should move mandatory out so we can specify once etc for those 
<elfy> but I need to not look just now :)
<knome> the settings manager is something that probably gets tested along with the other tests that you run under that
<knome> eg. getting to the appearance settings requires settings manager working
<knome> (unless you know the CLI command, but that's obviously cheating)
<elfy> yea
<elfy> other thing that needs to be checked is that all setting types are catered for somewhere
<knome> i'm not following now
<elfy> I'll make notes on the pad :)
<knome> sure
<knome> i played around a bit with it :P
<knome> re: settings manager tests generally... i'm not sure if we need to test every single button
<knome> but if people will test those... sure.
<elfy> agreed
<elfy> there are ~30 ... 
<elfy> knome can you insert an image into pad? 
<knome> nope
<knome> use imagebin
<knome> and link
<elfy> yea
<elfy> knome: do the notes I've made make more sense to you? 
<knome> yup
<elfy> cool
<elfy> other thing I have thought of - we've created our product - with a bunch of testcases
<elfy> can someone like ubuntustudio use a testcase in their product if we've used it?
<knome> sure
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> if they couldn't then it's tough anyway :) as we wrote the things lol 
<knome> though we should try to put the big, in-common tests in the common pool
<elfy> I can laugh - was worried for a while
<elfy> yea agreed 
<knome> but with xfce we can pretty much just even tell them to run the xfce tests under xubuntu
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I'd guess that people with someone else doing legwork anyway 
<elfy> knome: thanks for doing optional/mandatory listing - I wanted you to see the currents and changes 
<knome> np :)
<pleia2> Unit193: have you been actually installing xubuntu or clicking on "try" like skellat did?
<Unit193> Try, it's live and being tested on real machines (also known as, computers that will not be messed up. :P )
<pleia2> ah, I've been installing!
<pleia2> suppose I could try no-install on my desktop and other computers
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-03
<Unit193> ToZ: Howdy, thanks for taking the time to report your test results.
<ToZ> No worries Unit193, had some free time and access to a couple of laptops
<xubuntu_> Unit193, :D im in mir
<xubuntu_> xmir for the matter
<Unit193> xubuntu_: Hello Grid!
<xubuntu_> :D
<xubuntu_> wait
<xubuntu_> it didnt took my name
<Unit193> Nope, just "Xubuntu"
<GridCube_> wen i write it doesnt show the text soon enough and when i delete it stays showing whats been deleted
<pleia2> heh, I wouldn't use passwords when testing this
<GridCube_> want me to do some kind of test
<Unit193> Yeah, we both had the lag issue.
<GridCube_> i dont see anything out of the ordinary
<pleia2> when you shut down you'll probably see all your text you typed in your session on your terminal screen, it's unsettling
<GridCube_> ok im gonna install the restricted extras and try to see a youtube videwo
<GridCube> my netbook does have an intel video card tho
<GridCube_> :) flash works fullscreen works,
<lderan> \o/
<GridCube_> hahaha :D It even loads 720p easily
<GridCube_> Unit193, should i do an special tst?
<GridCube_> my touch screen works as well btw
<Unit193> Not that I know of...
<GridCube_> ok
<GridCube_> shutting this down
 * Unit193 is just the idiot that created it, and hosts it...
<GridCube> P:
<GridCube> pleia2, you where right
<Noskcaj10> Do you guys think it's safe to put mir on my main/only PC?
<GridCube> its unsettling
<GridCube> not safe no
<Unit193> GridCube: I think you win as the most stable.
<GridCube> :D i havent found a single error, except its not shutting down
<GridCube> just flickering
<GridCube> the xubutnu logo, the logs of all i wrote, and repeats
<GridCube> well food time
<GridCube> :) added all my impressions to the pad
<Irihapeti> You here Unit193 ?
<Unit193> Sure.
<Unit193> Albeit, slightly distracted.
<Irihapeti> When I try to boot the xmir ISO, I get "error reading /lib/udev/hwdb.bin no such file or directory"
<Irihapeti> and then a busybox prompt
<Irihapeti> eventually
<Unit193> Which ISO do you have?  Not heard of any reports of this type yet, md5sum check out?
<Unit193> /lib/udev/hwdb.bin does exist on disk...
<Irihapeti> I used zsync, so md5sum automatic check
<Irihapeti> then dd to a usb stick
<Irihapeti> could try another stick
<Unit193> When booting, check for defects, if you would.
<Unit193> Happen on all hardware, or just the one?
<Irihapeti> for some reason, that wouldn't work. Maybe a faulty stick or USB connection, maybe
<Irihapeti> Only tried it on one machine so far
<Unit193> Well, I'd state how I did it, but I'd be risking sounding like a broken record, and it's listed on the page. ;P
<Irihapeti> which page? This one http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/ ?
<Unit193> Heh, yep.
<Irihapeti> Usually, I download isos and then dd to a device. I'll try an SD card. They are usually pretty reliable for me.
<Irihapeti> Then I'll report back later if I find anything interesting
<Irihapeti> Thanks
<Unit193> Sure, hope you get it.
<elfy> knome: when you are around - I successfully created orage testcase - added it to Xfce Applications - then changed the orage testcase name to match the new id and pushed that
<elfy> now it's disappeared from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/files
<elfy> not sure what I did - or if that's supposed to happen - but I'll not fiddle with ristretto just yet ...
<smartboyhw> elfy, from what I'm seeing here, you have the version without the id
<smartboyhw> I'm a fresh checkout BTW
<elfy> I'll talk to knome smartboyhw thanks - quite frankly you confuse me by assuming I know what you know :)
<elfy> thanks though :)
<smartboyhw> elfy, oh, now it's gone:P
<smartboyhw> Revision 193, you obviously -D (a.k.a delete)
<smartboyhw> You can just add back the file, you know:)
<smartboyhw> elfy, did you do bzr add????
<smartboyhw> I think that's the reason
<smartboyhw> You renamed it
<smartboyhw> The original file disappeared
<smartboyhw> But the new renamed file isn't in the commit
<smartboyhw> Since you didn't run bzr add
<smartboyhw> And so...
<smartboyhw> That happens to me a lot, so I know about what happened in this case;)
<elfy> I still have the branch here that I pulled so I've got it still 
<elfy> you actually managed to explain that this time ;)
<smartboyhw> elfy, YEAH!
<elfy> smartboyhw: so - added it back here - just bzr push :parent to send it back to branch?
<smartboyhw> elfy, yes
<bluesabre> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm-gtk-greeter-updates/+merge/177959
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bzr status    can also be helpful to see untracked and changed files.
<elfy> smartboyhw: ok - it's back :p
<smartboyhw> elfy, I confirm that the thing is back!
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> Unit193, that's the thing I'm now using to prevent mistakes like this:)
<elfy> Unit193: yea - I was seeing sso and forum login numbers in front of my eyes when I read status ... 
<elfy> smartboyhw: can you double check something for me - go to http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker
<smartboyhw> elfy, OK
<elfy> see if you can find ristretto there anywhere - I can't see it 
<elfy> seems someone has named the testcase in branch instead of the other way around
<smartboyhw> elfy, no no no.
<smartboyhw> Can't see it.
<elfy> didn't think so 
<elfy> I'll sort that out
<smartboyhw> The ID in branch is 1576, but in the QA Tracker it's Xfce4 Session and Startup settings.... 
<elfy> back to resolution centre for an hour now though
<elfy> smartboyhw: yea 
<elfy> knome - you can ignore the ping 
<smartboyhw> elfy, sorry for the forum BTW (for being hacked)
<elfy> you can only be sorry if it was you - in which case I should wander away a but quick :)
<knome> wut?
<knome> :)
<elfy> just ignore me knome :)
<knome> heh
<smartboyhw> elfy, it's not me, I was in UK when I learnt about this (and was shocked)
<knome> elfy, 'bzr add' when you add new files
<elfy> smartboyhw: I was joking - but this isn't the channel for it :)
<smartboyhw> I know)
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> Anyways
<smartboyhw> Back to my own work
<elfy> knome: yea - and read the status thing properly :p
<elfy> knome: I did some work on a pad - linked from the one we were working on yesterday
<elfy> links are on the qa blueprint 
<knome> mhm
<knome> will check that out
<elfy> no rush - just letting you know 
<knome> might as well do that right away ;)
<knome> re: settings manager / how many we want tested
<knome> we need to remember that we're grouping a lot of non-xfce stuff under the settings manager now
<elfy> I know - but we do have the default stuff in there
<knome> sure.
<knome> i think we've gone already a bit overboard in a way, BUT, as i said, if people test them...
<elfy> we can only work with default I'd say
<elfy> knome: there were bugs - we asked -  people wrote stuff :)
<knome> yeah, sure
<elfy> I'm not going to stop that happening :)
<knome> sure, but who filed those bugs?
<elfy> chicuil I think 
<knome> is he using xubuntu?
<elfy> no 
<elfy> he did a bunch of bugs - tags got added
<knome> exactly my point - he can't know what's essential for us
<elfy> he didn't add tags 
<elfy> jackson did some - I did some 
<knome> yeah, sure
<knome> but if he filed a bug for xfce4 appearance settings
<knome> it doesn't matter who added the tag
<knome> by filing bugs for all the settings manager items he kind of decided xubuntu needs tests for all of those
<elfy> I'm not sure he did that :)
<knome> looks like the filer of most of those test needed -bugs
<elfy> he did do that one
<elfy> "It's included in Mythbuntu by default"
<knome> right, sure.
<elfy> I tagged that xubuntu
<knome> i'm still not sure if this level of detail is something we want
<knome> i would think the xfce tests are overwhelming
<knome> there is just too much stuff, even if it's easy to run
<elfy> well - that may well be the case - we can NOT do things a whole lot easier than we can say - we NEED this now - and have to write testcases and add them
<Noskcaj> knome, If too much stuff is an issue, can't you just disable them from the tracker ot mark the bug invalid?
<elfy> and also I got fed up waiting for any responses to the m/l when I asked what we wanted
 * Noskcaj needs sleep
<knome> Noskcaj, sure. but i wouldn't want to send anybody a message telling their work is worthless, which is what that would do
<knome> elfy, maybe the solution would be to create an Xfce Settings Manager testsuite
<elfy> knome: it just needs a "Thanks for all the hard work on testcase, we have them on packages tracker, this is an excellent starting point, we will slowly start to use them as tests in the future"
<elfy> knome: there is one already - it has 'some' tests in it
<knome> no, there isn't xfce settings manager testuite
<knome> testsuite
<knome> only xfce and xfce applications
<elfy> oh right - sorry not reading you properly
<knome> i'll create that now
<elfy> yes - that would do it 
<knome> let's see what it looks like
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> knome: hang on
<knome> yes?
<elfy> or did you just do 363	Xfce Settings Manager
<knome> yes
<knome> :)
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
<elfy> excellent
<knome> that still looks like A LOT of stuff, but it's slightly better
<elfy> yea 
<knome> now if we could get weighting testsuites under products to get the xubuntu office stuff pop up...
<elfy> but we can just call for testing for those things we want testing on m/l if necessary I guess
<knome> sure
<elfy> weighting would help I suspect
<elfy> knome: sorry - I'm confused with bzr again - could you look at http://pastebin.com/jKmzQRAV
<elfy> then I'll leave you in peace ;)
<knome> just a sec, i'm just updateing the statuses of testcasee
<knome> s
<elfy> okey doke
<knome> see: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
<knome> elfy, bzr merge lp:ubuntu-manual-testcases
<elfy> only thing I would say would be that perhaps window manager tweaks should be mandatory - we used to want people to test the compositor? 
<elfy> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu-manual-testcases/".
<smartboyhw> it's -tests
<knome> yeah, -tests :P
<elfy> ta
<knome> catfish
<knome> transmission
<smartboyhw> elfy, before you commit, better pull first:)
<knome> software center (common)
<elfy> smartboyhw: I bloody hate bzr
<smartboyhw> elfy, I bloody love bzr
<elfy> knome: in applications for catfish
<knome> mh
<elfy> and transmission
<knome> transmission might be common
<elfy> possibly - software mangler definitely is 
<knome> mangler, lol
<smartboyhw> Transmission is common
<smartboyhw> It's Ubuntu's default
<Unit193> Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-usb, xubuntu-desktop, lubuntu-desktop, ubuntustudio-desktop, ubuntu-gnome-desktop   sadly quite a lot like transmission.
<smartboyhw> Unit193, sadly?
<bluesabre> transmission works well and is user friendly
<bluesabre> I used to use deluge, but transmission serves my needs now
<knome> all "tests" are now removed from the testcase names :P
<smartboyhw> \o/
<elfy> ok - this is odd, just pulled the branch and ristretto is there as 'ristretto' if I go to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/files/head:/testcases/packages/ it's there are 1576_ristretto
<Unit193> bluesabre: Heh, yep.  Deluge is what I use, gives more output and control to me, which is nice.  The ncurses application is lacking, but meh.
<elfy> knome: that looks better :)
<smartboyhw> elfy, you did commit and push, right?
<elfy> yea 
<smartboyhw> If yes, that IS weird
<elfy> must have - I bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-tests and it's there as just Ristretto
<smartboyhw> elfy, no, in here it's still with the ID
<elfy> mmm 
<smartboyhw> And I don't think you've pushed it
<knome> here with the id as well
<elfy> yep - sorry - had a whole bunch of things opened here ... 
<knome> ;)
<smartboyhw> elfy, sigh
<elfy> right so bzr add shows adding testcases/packages/Ristretto
<smartboyhw> elfy, gd
<elfy> now that I've rename it 
<elfy> so commit then push :parent
<smartboyhw> yep
<elfy> d'oh will have to merge first 
<knome> yeah, sorry for poking my fingers there :P
<elfy> why is it telling me stuff about leafpad? 
<knome> i poked that test.
<knome> it had weird permissions, so i fixed them
<smartboyhw> Hmm, my fault probably
<elfy> ok - seems to have done something :p
<smartboyhw> It's me who merged that in
<knome> :)
<smartboyhw> Sorry guys:)
<knome> got my attention since it had a different icon...
<elfy> right - ristretto now looks right :p
<knome> elfy, now to add it to the tracker and rename it again! :P
<elfy> yep
<smartboyhw> LOL
<knome> (you know you could've just added and renamed it once to a new ID? :))
<smartboyhw> ristretto might be the 1600'th test!!!!!!!!
<smartboyhw> Let me tell balloons to make a blog post to celebrate!
<smartboyhw> :P
 * knome goes and adds a "fart" test as the 1600th
<bluesabre> +1
<smartboyhw> hey
<elfy> done that now 
<smartboyhw> -1
<knome> lol :D
<elfy> smartboyhw: there's not 1600 tests :)
<knome> beat me!
<smartboyhw> elfy, I know, for ID purposes:P
<smartboyhw> whaa, so difficult to catch up with the changes:P
<knome> smartboyhw, that's what happens when the xubuntu team starts working
<elfy> lol
<knome> in good or bad...
<smartboyhw> knome, elfy :OOOOOOOOOOO
<elfy> phew
<elfy> ok - testcase built, renamed ristretto and pushed it, looks right to me :)
<knome> yay
<smartboyhw> We should soon celebrate the 200th commit of the ubuntu-manual-tests though
<knome> is it in any of our testsuites?
<elfy> not yet ...
<knome> hehe
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testsuites/351/edit
<elfy> it is now :)
<knome> nice
<smartboyhw> Great'
<elfy> so - that is all as convoluted as getting an MD to try and write production engineering sheets for electrical work when he's an accountant ... 
<smartboyhw> lol
<elfy> ballons hasn't had his ear tweaked by me for weeks ... 
<elfy> I shall gang up on him with all 10 of my IRC personas 
<knome> :D
<knome> i've been pestering him so much he has barely had time to breathe
<smartboyhw> elfy, good
<smartboyhw> knome, great:)
<smartboyhw> Everyone must annoy balloons :)
<elfy> knome: ok - so I think right now - we are up to date :)
<knome> not really from his POV... but at least i got the testcases organized how xubuntu wants :P
<bluesabre> \o/
<elfy> LOL
<knome> elfy, well, not quite if you ask me
<knome> elfy, there are a few orphan testcases in the tracker
<elfy> xfce ones?
<knome> elfy, like users settings, i'm suspecting that might refer to the users and groups admin we have as well
<knome> (but that's not really an xfce core component)
<knome> we do ship it by default though
<knome> also time administration
<elfy> should be in common then 
<knome> and pidgin, pavucontrol
<knome> we ship 'em all
<knome> and i believe gnome sudoku too :P
<smartboyhw> It's great that you guys are working on putting everything in:)
<knome> which is the most useless test ever
<elfy> ok ... 
<smartboyhw> I mean, testsuite
<elfy> LMAO
<knome> and update manager.
<smartboyhw> knome, hey, don't say it's the most useless test ever.
<knome> that's not useless, but that's orphaned too
<knome> smartboyhw, but it is - who cares if the sudoku is working? :P
<bluesabre> me
<smartboyhw> knome, users.
<smartboyhw> And bluesabre LOL
<bluesabre> gotta have my sudoku
<knome> gnome mines is also orphaned..
<bluesabre> and disappointed about not having mahjjong
<knome> :D
<elfy> knome: so where are you seeing users and groups admin
<smartboyhw> Maybe the new QA lead of Ubuntu GNOME (amjjawad) is making some GNOME testcases
<knome> elfy, http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testcases
<knome> elfy, under the name "users settings"
<knome> elfy, sneaky, isn't it!
<knome> smartboyhw, good luck with that.
<elfy> that's the same one - test id 1597
<smartboyhw> And I think it's time to add some KDE ones.
<smartboyhw> The next thing you know, we have no time to test all these testcases (LOL)
<elfy> good luck getting me to look at those 
<knome> smartboyhw, that's what i've been saying all day, but that's not my problem ;)
<smartboyhw> Uh hum
<smartboyhw> I think I need to talk about balloons about that
<knome> about what?
<smartboyhw> That idea was suggested by one tester, and modified by me
<elfy> knome: so where do you think pidgin should go? 
<smartboyhw> knome, about too many testcases;P
<elfy> pavucontrol - common? 
<knome> no idea about either
<smartboyhw> pavucontrol -> common yeah
<knome> i suppose that's why they are hanging
<elfy> pidgin I think is just us 
<bluesabre> despite everyone admitting that it is still superior to empathy
<elfy> in which case apps as we don't do a 'network' one 
<Unit193> elfy: Lubuntu too.
<elfy> oh ok 
<knome> elfy, since it looks like we're not having *too* much stuff, we could just rename Xubuntu Office to Xubuntu Applications
<elfy> and put pidgin in there? 
<knome> dunno, it's common
<elfy> but lubuntu can put it in their one anyway can't they regardless of what we do? 
<smartboyhw> Well yeah
<elfy> I'd not say common to 2 flavours common 
<smartboyhw> One testcase can have many testsuites,
<elfy> I'd say common to all flavours is common
<knome> but we'll lose tracking
<elfy> knome - renamed to applications now
<knome> if the pidgin test is in both xubuntu and lubuntu, we'll have no automatic way of knowing if it's tested enough
<elfy> this is where it will get stupid then - we could have a ridiculous situation of different 'commons'
<knome> yep
<elfy> perhaps those should just be 'testcases' 
<knome> whatever you think is the best way
<knome> it might be a non-problem
<elfy> needs thought I think
<knome> sure
<knome> pidgin isn't in any testuite yet
<knome> so it's not like "lubuntu are going to add it under theirs anyway"
<knome> :)
<knome> and "boohoo"
<knome> elfy, btw, xfce4 thunar volman and gthumb too ;)
<knome> we seem to be the only one carrying gthumb
<elfy> so ...
<knome> added it to xu apps
<elfy> we have Xfce Applications and Xubuntu Applications
<knome> yep
<knome> is that confusing to you? :P
<elfy> for one moment it was :)
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> it's pretty obvious when you give it some thought
<elfy> so - I'll work thorugh the orphans for a while 
<knome> added thunar volman to xfce core as well
<elfy> ok
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/devel/files/head:/lib/canonical/launchpad/images/
<knome> eh
<knome> not that
<knome> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
<knome> does that look good now vs status/type?
<elfy> looking 
<elfy> still think window tweaks should be mandatory 
<knome> probably missed that
<elfy> I'll change it 
<knome> but i'd say maybe consider run-once
<knome> it's just eye-candy after all
<elfy> ok
<knome> if it's not working, turn it off
<elfy> agree with that
<knome> and you have a functionally working system
<elfy> yep - done it 
<knome> mhm
<knome> the good thing is we can always change these on-the-fly
<elfy> I'm thinking that there's no reason to look at gnumeric anymore than we already have and am marking the bug for advanced as wishlist :)
<knome> mhm
<knome> agreed
<elfy> and removing it from the enormous list of bugs on the qa blueprint ... 
<elfy> knome: one last to look at - if you've a few minutes - I did the window manager testcase - it's been merged etc - just needs either a home or to be ignored
<knome> isn't that for the settings manager suite
<elfy> yea - but I've not done anything with it yet - set to run once? 
<knome> sounds good
<elfy> oh hang on
<knome> yes sir
<elfy> something awry somewhere - I'll dig and sort it out 
<knome> btw, is the xfwm test the same as your window manager test? :P
<elfy> I think I might have done tweaks twice
<knome> oopsie
<elfy> is the xfwm test there? 
<knome> yup
<elfy> ok - all ok then 
<elfy> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testcase/ubuntu-manual-tests/trunk/files/head:/testcases/packages/Xfce/
<elfy> if you can double check 1590 and the unnumbered one - I am sure they are dupes 
<knome> can confirm that
<elfy> ok - so I pull the branch, delete the orphan one and then merge ? 
<knome> yup
<knome> except you can't delete - just rename to "blank" or sth
<elfy> ok - then push :parent etc
<knome> yup
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> then I think we will be sorted - only testcases at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testcases without a suite atm are common
<elfy> moving catfish 
<knome> sounds correct
<elfy> catfish is now in xubuntu applications as optional, disabled in the catfish testsuite
<knome> mhm
<knome> bah, i should take some time next week or the week after that to actually write the gmb testcase
<elfy> I'd not push anyone to write a testcase ... 
<elfy> :p
<knome> haha
<smartboyhw> elfy, +1
<knome> good joke ;)
<elfy> knome: one last thing - http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds/50384/testcases
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testsuites/352/edit
<elfy> that should be there perhaps
<knome> mhm
<elfy> si that - add the network testsuite to product?
<knome> just did that
<elfy> I saw - but I was right in adding to product? 
<elfy> 'trying' to get the logic :)
<knome> yes
<elfy> cool 
<elfy> good lord that was a lot of work for a saturday morning 
<knome> haha
<knome> that was just cutting the loose ends
<elfy> :p
<elfy> dealt with the dupe window manager now 
<knome> woo
<elfy> there wan't apparently a bug for the window manager anywhere 
<knome> bug 1187470
<ubottu> bug 1187470 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed: Window Manager" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187470
<elfy> sorry - I meant that the other testcase didn't get linked to that bug
<knome> :)
<elfy> marked it released now anyway as it is 
<knome> note that window manager and window manager tweaks is different
<elfy> yea - I know - we have both - and had a dupe of one :)
<knome> hehe
<elfy> I think I can more or less concentrate on autopilot now - which will be a barrel of laughs
<elfy> rather than manual sytuff
<knome> heh
<knome> some time before beta 1 too, gives us some breathing spae
<knome> space too
<elfy> yep
<knome> otoh, we could try to get one test per testcase before b1
<elfy> autopilot? 
<knome> and another one (up to two) before b2
<knome> no, the manual tests
<knome> actual *tests*, not the testcases :)
<elfy> oic - start people testing things 
<knome> yep
<elfy> for real :)
<elfy> woohoo
<knome> does that sound viable?
<elfy> I think so 
<knome> (have 1 tests done by b1, 2 in total by b2)
<knome> we probably don't have much time to test the packages after b2
<elfy> indeed
<knome> it's only three weeks, and testers are most probably busy with ISO testing
<elfy> indeed 
<knome> if we get even one test per testcase, that'll be a triumph
<knome> that way we can be relatively sure the testcases itself make sense
<elfy> agreed 
<elfy> I'll start pushing for package testing then 
<knome> great
<knome> if you want people to review your email, write it in a pad and post to the channel
<elfy> yep - I will do 
<knome> ta
<knome> bbl
<elfy> Unit193: excellent results with that iso :p COMPLETELY unusable on one machine, seems fine on this one
<lderan> elfy, i have gotten it running :D
<lderan> typing was laggy but no other strangeness
<smartboyhw> You guys don't have that two-pointer problem?:O
<elfy> seems ok on this machine - but the laptop just crapped out completely
<elfy> not here smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> elfy, ooh
<smartboyhw> When I use it with Unity (not sure about Xfce though), I get two pointers.
<smartboyhw> That was 25 days before though
<smartboyhw> It might have been fixed
<elfy> no idea about the laptop - had a 'broken' image on display - was split into about 6 zig zagging across the screen
<elfy> no idea 
<elfy> really don't like gnome now 
<smartboyhw> What I do recommend here is that use it not for 13.10 but for 14.04....
<smartboyhw> I mean, Mir
<elfy> seem to be people getting this iso of unit's - I've seeded 6Gb since this morning
<elfy> which could be ~7 people :D
<lderan> woo
<elfy> knome and anyone else who might want to look, like pleia2 - http://pad.ubuntu.com/m2wAr0Hntu
<smartboyhw> elfy, nice:)
<GridCubexmir> :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I could have done that on this machine :)
<skellat> GridCubexmir: Status so far?
<GridCubexmir> dual monitors are mirroring, i dont see the setting for extend it
<GridCubexmir> probably i cant in a live session?
<GridCubexmir> cant see a real problem beyond the lagging part
<GridCubexmir> can you paste me the link to the etherpad so ill upload my report?
<skellat> Hmm
<skellat> Hold on
<GridCubexmir> just the Unit193 page should do
<skellat> http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/
<GridCubexmir> im figuring out that i would need something different from arandr for the dual monitors
<GridCubexmir> because its mir the onedoing the mirroring right?
<GridCubexmir> D: it wont let me OK the microsoft eula in the xubuntu-restricted-extras installer
<GridCubexmir> aaaaaaaand the Unit193 page its not loading
<skellat> Well, when you have The Jono Bacon promote the link on G+ you should kinda expect the server to have a panic attack
<skellat> Let me open my logs and find the direct Etherpad link
<skellat> Gridcubexmir: Go to http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir
<GridCubexmir> merÃ§i
<elfy> skellat: there's no way that I'm going to +1 xmir http://imagebin.org/266445
<GridCubexmir> my testcases are completely different
<lderan> that is rather bad
<GridCubexmir> they work almost perfectly
<elfy> lderan: screenie? 
<lderan> yeah
<elfy> yea - I was expecting it to fail with nouveau rather than an intel thing tbh
<GridCubexmir> well i can try to install the nvidia drivers and see how that goes
<elfy> had enough of that then ... 
<elfy> :p
<skellat> elfy: They've still got until August 15th.  If we let them know about what is going haywire now, perhaps fixes may still yet happen.
<elfy> yea - I agree - I've just seen it all before 
<elfy> hope it doesn't work like other 'ideas' but you'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath
<skellat> elfy: If we put the question to them about how to re-architect our ISOs to survive boot & usage I imagine we might get some interesting responses.
<elfy> I'm afraid that the ins and outs of what we could do mean nothing to me. 
<elfy> I expect canonical to provide a working environment if I'm expected to agree to releasing 
<knome> elfy, played around a bit with the pad
<elfy> posted it now 
<knome> heh, oki
<knome> worksforme :)
<knome> i didn't explain that "some*", but oh well. :)
<knome> people can ask...
<drc> huh, forgot my passsword :)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> it'll work out I'm sure 
<knome> always does
<elfy> yep
<elfy> anyway - away now - back tomorrow at some point I suspect
<xubuntu_> OK, phooey on the password :)
<xubuntu_> http://imagebin.org/266460 is what I get when I boot the xmir ISO thru the Install GUI screen
<xubuntu_> and http://imagebin.org/266462 is what I get when I boot thru the text based screen
<knome> Unit193, ding-a-ling
<Unit193> knome: Howdy.
<knome> ^ 
<xubuntu_> the second screen shot shows the results of the ps ax | grep command.
<xubuntu_> So, did it boot thru to xmir or not?
<Unit193> Yep, and mir is running, notice any weirdness at all?  (Care to document to the pad, if you have a LP account?>)
<Unit193> You're in XMir, yep.
<xubuntu_> BTW, this is drc
<Unit193> Figured, but wasn't 100% sure, thanks.
<xubuntu_> It's interesting, If I sit and let the boot happen thru the gui, I get a error message relating to lightdm, but it I hit return early on and go thru the text screen, I do not get the error
<Unit193> Several people have noticed lag when typing in a terminal, have you?  Heh, well I've always used the "text" mode, I dislike the "Maybe Ubiquity" screen. :P
<xubuntu_> Unit193, yes, a few seconds
<xubuntu_> Now I'm PO'd....I was all set to rant against xmir...and it appears to work (for me :)
<Unit193> Hah, should have tried 0.0.6, then. ;)
<xubuntu_> seeing as how I'm still in xmir, try to document this?you want me to try before I go back to xorg and 
<xubuntu_> woah...that was wierd
<xubuntu_> seeing as how I'm still in xmir, anything you want me to try before I go back to xorg and try to document this? 
<Unit193> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir if you would be so kind?  Can of course include the screenshot, and lspci | grep VGA
<Unit193> Hrm, I thought of something earlier, but can't remember now. :P
<xubuntu_> ok, I'm going to let this sit while I go to the kitchen.  If you think of it, just hollar.
<Unit193> The only things they seemed to note were full screen applications didn't bypass the compositor, thus weren't as fast as native X.org, but it's a known one.
<GridCube> Unit193, in this machine i tried playing an 1080p in fullscreen and it worked just like in standard
<Unit193> GridCube: Yeah, gave me the idea, and going to try the one that can't handle some higher quality flash, see how it compares.
<GridCube> oh in my netbook i played 720p youtube flash no problem too
<GridCube> Unit193, i noticed that the zoom pointer got broken stuffs while moving
<xubuntu_> any screenshots (other than the two I refered to earlier) anyone wants before I shut xmir down?
<Unit193> I think that'll do it, thank you.
<GridCube> xubuntu_, added the data to the pad?
<xubuntu_> GridCube: nah, it's good data , cn't have that :)
<drc_> I forgot to look, what version of xmir was I using?
<Unit193> 0.0.8
<Unit193> (If you downloaded the file in the past 3 days.)
<drc_> 30 min ago :)
<drc_> ok, on the pad...if anyone needs more info, let me know
#xubuntu-devel 2013-08-04
<jjfrv8> elfy, are you around?
<elfy> sort of 
<elfy> jjfrv8: what's up?
<jjfrv8> Quick question on the testcases. Do you want us to finish up the remaining bugs that are out there? I.E., will you be adding more testcases to the test tracker?
<elfy> as far as I'm aware we've got everything - so I'll not be adding anything now 
<jjfrv8> Okay, I had assigned Alacarte to myself.  Can I drop it? :)
<elfy> jjfrv8: only 2 left 
<elfy> you can if you need to - someone else will pick it up I expect :)
<jjfrv8> Alrighty, that way I can focus on running instead of writing :)
<elfy> cool :)
<GridCube> Unit193, i tried the amd64 iso but grml would not find it after choosing it from the grub menu, retried using the i386 and it worked again
<Unit193> Hrm, if you want me to I can test that method with one computer here later on.  ISO works though.
<GridCube> well i dont have a pendrive though :(
<GridCube> so i can't go that road
<Unit193> I'd assume you did update-grub after sticking the ISO in the dir?
<Unit193> Checking some of the referring links, several have bad information, and "The team is committed to updating..." Wut?  The bad information is recommending vbox testing.  Are news sites always this wrong? :P
<skellat> Unit193: Who needs smacking around?
<Unit193> Everyone? :D
<skellat> Unit193: Which news sites, I mean
<skellat> The script for Burning Circle 125 to be recorded tonight can't get any more emphatic that under no circumstances should any virtualization environment be used for testing the ISO.  I can't do much more to triple-underline it there.
<Unit193> Some random unheard of ones, can pull a list if need be.
<skellat> BC syndicates to Planet and, if I try very hard to stick exactly to the script, and I can ensure a transcript appears too
<Unit193> Google translate not being the best, can't tell for sure if what http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lffl.org%2F2013%2F08%2Fxubuntu-disponibile-la-iso-con-il-nuovo.html seems to say is what it really does, but we're now going to have two xubuntu versions? ;)
 * skellat is summoned by his recording engineer
 * Unit193 wonders if he should tell pleia2 that you can't use the terminal that pops up on the live CD, guesses that'd be a bad idea, so doesn't.
 * drc was wondering if anyone got that terminal to work.
<Unit193> It's there only to show you the log. :P
<Unit193> It made sense at the timeâ¢
<pleia2> Unit193: you just exit the log
<drc> Then maybe http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/ should be revised to indicate that?
<pleia2> Unit193: no need to be passive aggressive about pointing out error, we're all on the same side here to make the instructions clear
<drc> I know I didn't have any clue :(
<Unit193> pleia2: Was I?
<pleia2> Unit193: yes
<Unit193> Hrm, not what I was going for...
<pleia2> I don't know why you think it would be a bad idea to tell me I'm mistaken about something
<pleia2> you can just tell me, no need to action it
<Unit193> Lets try it again.  If you hit q, the log will close as will the terminal, thus you won't be able to check in that terminal.  Ah, that was kidding about me having to find words to edit the page with, heh.
<pleia2> I could have sworn I just exited the log and typed the command there, but I am fallible
<pleia2> see, I was mistaken, it's ok :)
<pleia2> want to update the page and then reply on list?
<Unit193> You could have, but I don't see how as the command is  xfce4-terminal -x less logfile  (which I just tested and seems to close.)
<Unit193> Dowh...
<pleia2> yes, I was mistaken
<Unit193> (In theory, it's a different version in saucy, so technically it could be that you are not mistaken!)
<pleia2> skellat: you sent a mail to the list with an unsubbed list, shall I let it through or do you want to resend with a subbed address?
<pleia2> s/unsubbed list/unsubbed address
<pleia2> (I don't mind letting it through, just don't know if you intend to use that address in public)
<skellat> pleia2: You can let it through.  The address is shown on my LP profile which is why it went through on the LoCo list just fine even though I didn't look.
<pleia2> okie
<Unit193> I take it s/type/run/ won't suffice?
<pleia2> Unit193: I'd do this...
<pleia2> After booting the system, a terminal window with the unity-system-compositor log will display.
<pleia2> ^^ one line
<pleia2> then ...
<pleia2> To confirm that you are running XMir, open a new terminal and type: ps ax | grep system-comp
<Unit193> Done.
<drc> and maybe give them some sort of clue what they should see if they are running xmir?
<pleia2> er, another whitespace?
<pleia2> drc: the 'ps ax | grep system-comp' is really the only indicator
<Unit193> Didn't think it needed it, but I will comply.
<pleia2> Unit193: we want to make clear that people don't think those two things are related
<pleia2> thanks :)
<drc> pleia2: no, I mean the output of the command.
<pleia2> drc: ah
<Unit193> drc: Broken screen, you're running mir. ;)
<pleia2> I guess we assume people know how grep works, huh :)
<drc> Again, I had to ask, 'cause I din't have a clue
<Unit193> Yes, I like to presume people know what grep is.
<Unit193> pgrep system-comp && echo "Yep, I'm running XMir."    :-----D
<drc> I know how grep works, I wanted to know what <specifically> I should be looking for
<pleia2> Unit193: could do
<Unit193> How it is now follows the official guidelines for how to test if it's running.
<Unit193> pleia2: Want me to change thatpart to something as well?  (Asking, because you're better with public announcements/text/wording.)
<Unit193> So far, only pad entries are from people I've seen on IRC, not as many as I'd hope based on how many are downloading. :/
<pleia2> Unit193: 1. sorry, which wording where? for the 'ps' command we could just say something like "a line containing "system-compostor-unity" (or whatever it's called) should show up"
<pleia2> 2. I have to collect reports people gave directly on G+/fb :\
<GridCube> http://i.imgur.com/1z3IKvd.png
<GridCube> :3
<Unit193> 1. Alrighty.  2. Awwh, dangit.  No fun for you. :/
<pleia2> mostly it's more of the same though, slowness, backspace weirdness when typing, showing text typed in screen during shutdown
<Unit193> GridCube: That's the stuff!
<pleia2> if someone wants to browse Mir bug reports and see if any of that has been reported before, we can me too it :)
<GridCube> :P i though i should screenshot it for the ml
<pleia2> I have it on my list to do later, but my list is massive
<pleia2> if bug reports don't exist, we can write some
<pleia2> then send bug reports + email in reply to Mir the Mir thread on list that included Mir pepole
<Unit193> pleia2: I looked at a few, there were some about being slow but I think I thought they were unrelated (twice as much thinking, more likely to be wrong.)
<GridCube> Unit193, theres some reports in the g+ page
 * pleia2 goes to make video of XMir problems
<GridCube> some here http://ubuntu-discourse.org/t/help-test-mir-for-xubuntu/897
<Unit193> 'To confirm that you are running XMir, open a new terminal and type <code>ps ax | grep system-comp</code>.  You should see several lines of output with "unity-system-compositor" in them.'
<GridCube> i like that xmir its not failing as much as i was expecting it to
<GridCube> Unit193, link the screenshot i pasted
<elfy> pleia2: you know how to add someone to etherpad?
<Unit193> GridCube: I looked at the FB and G+ pages a couple times, Facebook seemed to be more "Nooo! Don't do it!" and discourse had nothing. :P
<GridCube> elfy, they should be part of the etherpad group in launchpad
<elfy> big sigh
<pleia2> i approved a bunch of people this morning
<elfy> pleia2: you know how to get it so someone can post to etherpad
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/~steve-horsley
<elfy> can you do him please
<elfy> thanks :)
<GridCube> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
<pleia2> steve.horsley (steve-horsley) has been added as a member of this team.
<elfy> GridCube: yea - but you can't add yourself to it afaik 
<elfy> thanks pleia2 
<GridCube> you can ask to join and pleia2 can accept ya
<elfy> GridCube: not me :) it's someone else - and she did :) 
<Unit193> ...I should really stop editing the live page, but added more instruction.
<elfy> especially if it's just one person saying they don't understand ...
<GridCube> Unit193, nah you keep editing all you need
<Unit193> elfy: That was my thought. :P
<elfy> tbh I didn't read the mail properly
<Unit193> elfy: I will comply with whatever Lyz says though, she's the marketting/PR/whatever it's called person.
<elfy> :p
<Unit193> marketing
<Unit193> http://0bin.net/paste/ijCn5RT8ow-wShup#Oy4iS1Rh+oaSyOnVLyTm0V1H4DJCcWKjkU1Xvsb0AVw=  seen all as referrers, well except for the last 3, but Google and FB both have some weird method of referring anyway.
<drc> Which method of replying is prefered, ML or Pad?  Which ever one is, should be listed first (hint: Pad requires a account)
<Unit193> Pad is preferred, at least by me. :P
<Unit193> pleia2: We good, all set?
<pleia2> Unit193: yeah, thanks
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> GridCube: And yep, linked to your image.
<pleia2> ml requires sign up too, which I guess is why everyone has been replying in the respective social media outlets instead ;)
<Unit193> Oi, I'm stupid. >_<
<GridCube> Unit193, noted
<GridCube> that was the mean of it
<Unit193> Hah, good timing. :D
<GridCube> Unit193, i dont know who made this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4g31weG-SM
<Unit193> http://myswiat.wordpress.com/2013/08/03/xmir-and-xubuntu-testy/
<Unit193> But, hadn't seen the video.
<skellat> Is that Polish?
<elfy> yep
<skellat> Or Bulgarian?
<Unit193> Right, well she reminded me to check and see how well I can get a video of a monitor. :P
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1198741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1102756 in Mir "duplicate for #1198741 System compositor input events passed to console (particularly troublesome for Alt+Fn and Alt+Left/Right)" [High,Triaged]
<pleia2> if anyone wants to me too it
<pleia2> doh
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1198741
<pleia2> that's the one I meant
<pleia2> for some reason it's a dup of the first one I posted
<elfy> I'd like to be able to get them a bug report for my fail - but I can't think of anyway to get that for them
<elfy> there's probably a terminal somewhere ... http://imagebin.org/266445
<pleia2> elfy: heh, we have a few people with that issue
<elfy> oh - is there a bug for it?
<elfy> pleia2: worked on this machine at least
<pleia2> elfy: doesn't look like we've filed it yet, collecting screenshots of errors
<elfy> ok - I'd report it but I can just imagine the pointlessness of just posting a screenshot :)
<pleia2> elfy: I figure we'll post one bug report linking to a bunch of screenshots w/ system specs, can you add to etherpad?
<elfy> I have :)
<pleia2> \o/
<Unit193> -mir is dead on weekends, nobody works at Canonical.
<elfy> the cog will too I expect pleia2 
<elfy> that being steve horsley 
<elfy> Unit193: IS do if they have to :D
<Unit193> Hah. :D
<elfy> woohoo - we have a test result on the package tracker :D
 * pleia2 goes to do some other things while testing video uploads
<Unit193> One last thing I was thinking about, changing "Testing XMir on Xubuntu" to "Testing XMir 0.0.8 on Xubuntu", or is it something only I would think to add? :P
<elfy> p[ossibly only you :)
<Unit193> Cool, I'll go hide in a corner now.
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Unit193: I'll leave this machine on tonight - see if the torrents move 
<pleia2> jono wants to know if it would be helpful to have a meeting this week with some Mir engineers to iron out some things
<pleia2> I won't be around after Wednesday, and I think most can be communicated via email
<pleia2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfroweheIEU
<elfy> sppoky fingers ... :p
<elfy> pleia2: same as I had - didn't notice password when I logged out though
<GridCube> pleia2, i think it would be great to have a meeting
<pleia2> what package do we ubuntu-bug against?
 * elfy agrees, not sure if I'll make it on Wed though - depending on time
<elfy> pleia2: not at all sure 
<pleia2> I am not sure we actually can
<elfy> meet or bug?
<pleia2> bug
<pleia2> but I want it to do all the upload logs magic
 * elfy gets tinfoil out for his hat 
<Unit193> I think it's technically unity-system-compositor, but since "mir" is in the repos, I'd file on that. :P
<pleia2> mir package isn't installed
<Unit193> That's the source package name, binary is... libmirclient-sopmething and libmirserver-something, as well as a couple other libs.
<pleia2> no, not in the repos for this either
<pleia2> so should file against one of those libs?
<pleia2> there's also the xserver-xmir package
<pleia2> or somesuch
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir
<Unit193> Yeah, think same source package... I *think* system-compositor is the one, right?
<pleia2> elfy: I don't want to file it manually, want it to do all the upload magic of all my system info
<pleia2> Unit193: ok, I'll just do it under system compositor, then can fix it ;)
<elfy> I'll boot it up if you want and see what ubuntu-bug finds if you want
<Unit193> Apport may not let you, but worth a shot.
<elfy> tired ... to many wants in that last sentence ... 
<pleia2> seems this won't work since none of these packages are officially in the repo
<pleia2> guess I'll just file manually
<skellat> pleia2: Jono wants to do a meeting?
<pleia2> skellat: yes
<skellat> E-mail would be better at this point.  We've got 18 days until our go/no-go decision point on XMir as of right now.  The best thing we could get from the Mir team would be a diff from Unit193's ISO of what a proper configuration for boot up would look like in their view.
<elfy> typing's fun
<elfy> and it's slow rechoing
<Unit193> Do remember, the terminal with the log is actually a change I did, easily removed. (sudo rm /etc/xdg/autostart/mir-log.desktop or in the settings manager.)
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1208242
<ganglere> "Startup Disk Creator" is usb-creator-gtk, correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208242 in Mir "Text is jumpy when typing" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> if anyone wants me to  try  ubuntu-buig pleasee type it here - this is a nightamare
<elfy> and I'll copypasta
<elfy> not mire though
<GridCube> hahaha yes, typing in xmir is a pain
<Unit193> ganglere: Yes.
<Unit193> ganglere: Not recommended at this point, IIRC.
<skellat> Unit193: I'm not really worried about that terminal job.  I'm worried about replication.  Why can't we get what was shown in those YouTube videos in months prior to faithfully replicate across different hardware profiles?  What hideous hacks will it take?
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> no takers
<ganglere> unit193, it's included as part of the daily milestone, but not prepackaged. i've filed a bug.
<pleia2> putting together an email here: http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir-email
<elfy> don't set grub to default to last booted ... 
<elfy> what was that bug you posted pleia2 ? 
<pleia2> elfy: I posted a couple :)
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1208242
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208242 in Mir "Text is jumpy when typing" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1198741
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1102756 in Mir "duplicate for #1198741 System compositor input events passed to console (particularly troublesome for Alt+Fn and Alt+Left/Right)" [High,Triaged]
<elfy> the first one - thanks :) me too'd it 
 * pleia2 adds some more gfx card info from others who reported the same
<elfy> but as I said yesterday - if I only have a 50% success rate at even booting the iso - I'm never going to +1 using it 
<pleia2> elfy: I'm still willing to be surprised in the coming weeks, I wouldn't say "never" so soon ;)
<elfy> pleia2: you want me to add my card? or do you want to add it with the rest? 
<pleia2> elfy: go for it
<elfy> pleia2: if it works it works
<Unit193> I have a 117MB file I don't want to upload to a video hosting service, how would you like to view it? :P
<Unit193> ...Very crappy video.
<elfy> pleia2: posted
<elfy> and I'm always willing to be surprised too 
<skellat> If it can be done successfully, great.
<skellat> If not, then it is still okay.
<skellat> That's why we have the go/no-go meeting.
<elfy> pleia2: I'll do a bug with the screenshot I've got of the complete fail - then if you have other's from social stuff you could add them
<pleia2> I need a simple video editor, suggestions? :)
<pleia2> elfy: perfect, thank you
<drc> pleia2:   pitivi?
<pleia2> really just need to chop out a segment
<pleia2> drc: thanks
<Unit193> Heh, that's what I was thinking, but never used it.  Isn't OpenShot another one?
<pleia2> doesn't seem to want to edit mp4 videos
<pleia2> nm, I just don't know how to use it ;)
 * pleia2 figures out
<elfy> pleia2: you know that bug - that showed your password - should have marked it a security vulnerabilty :p
<GridCube> !info ffmuliconverter
<ubottu> Package ffmuliconverter does not exist in raring
<pleia2> elfy: it was, it was unsecurityified
<GridCube> !info ffmulticonverter
<ubottu> Package ffmulticonverter does not exist in raring
<GridCube> what
<GridCube> https://sites.google.com/site/ffmulticonverter/
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1208250
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1208250 in Mir "Complete graphic corruption on live boot" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> pleia2: there you are 
<pleia2> ty
<pleia2> skellat: want to add your video to that bug? ^^
<pleia2> lderan: your mir.jpg seems to have disappeared, can you upload it somewhere more permanent?
<elfy> I noted those 2 bugs on the discourse thread for this xubuntu mir testing
<elfy> pleia2: and the cog has posted to the new bug - good bunch forum staff :p
<pleia2> the cog?
<drc> small cog...big machine
<Unit193> I had made a wiki of the etherpad for easy reading.. :P
<pleia2> Unit193: where?
<pleia2> I'm just copying+organizing over in the -email etherpad
<elfy> pleia2: steve horsley - is the cog in my world :)
<pleia2> elfy: ah, ok :)
<Unit193> Just transferred part of the wiki, so if it's slightly broken... http://vanir.unit193.tk/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:mir and the video is uploaded. \o/
<elfy> toz is another forum staff guy that uses xubuntu 
<Unit193> http://vanir.unit193.tk/mir/DSCF3866.AVI
<lderan> pleia2, weird it should be there 
<skellat> pleia2: Feel free to add the video where necessary
<elfy> I added Xubuntu to my bug pleia2 - maybe do the same? 
<elfy> nvm 
<elfy> I can do so 
<Unit193> Do I win on worst one yet? :P
<lderan> pleia2, ah typo'ed the url
<elfy> anyway - done for the day - piskie will watch over you all 
<elfy> night
<skellat> Unit193: I'm still downloading your video
<Unit193> lderan: Noooo!  IE10! :P
<lderan> nooooo
<skellat> Unit193: You win.  That looks like something a bad SNES cartridge might have produced back in the day.
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Not really old hardware...
<skellat> I think that AVI needs to be a bug attachment
<Noskcaj> interesting bug that just turned up. bug 1208243
<ubottu> bug 1208243 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "usb-creator-gtk not included in Xubuntu 13.10 daily iso" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208243
<Unit193> I never got to see the desktop. :(
<Unit193> "Antique hardware is not in use"  Mine is. :P
<skellat> Noskcaj: That would be due to it not being seeded and included on the disc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5949026/
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/TgycjehjLCtTEfwJZklH
<skellat> We didn't ship it in 13.04 either
<pleia2> lderan: ah, thanks!
<lderan> its pretty premanent until i have a power cut :P
<pleia2> lderan: hm, actually, it didn't load the installer?
<pleia2> the installer doesn't use xmir, xmir is only started when you go to "try" afaik
<pleia2> skellat: can you add your machine specs to the video? (something so that the bug report references back to your info)
<skellat> pleia2: Another comment made but done
<lderan> pleia2, i tried it with 13.04 and it loaded fine so thought it was something to do with the xmir
<pleia2> ok, I'm about ready to send off the email at http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mir-email
<skellat> pleia2: I'm okay with it.
<pleia2> sent!
<lderan> \o/
<knome> pleia2, thanks for the answer
<pleia2> what answer?
<knome> pleia2, email reply to jono
<pleia2> oh, I sent one directly to him too
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> right, just got that. :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> also, i'm going to be off from wed this week until pretty much next week
<pleia2> I leave wednesday night
<knome> the project? :)
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> california :)
<knome> oki
<pleia2> going to a conference over the weekend
<knome> aha, which one?
<pleia2> so mostly gone thurs-sun
<pleia2> the freenode one, fosscon.org
<knome> aah
<knome> anything interesting there (excluding you)?
<pleia2> coolbhavi is flying in for a couple talks
<knome> don't know the nick
<pleia2> mostly I want to go becaus it's in philly and my friends are there :)
<knome> (or person, i'm pretty sure)
<knome> i have friends wedding on sun!
<skellat> pleia2: Well, at least you'll be passing Ashtabula...and Erie, Clarion, Harrisburg, Indiana, Kutztown, Lancaster, and a whole lotta other places
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> ok, need to take a break from xubu-things
<lderan> hope you have fun :D
<knome> isn't lancaster in the brits? :P
<lderan> think so
<skellat> knome: Ohio has one and so does Pennsylvania
<knome> pleia2, enjoy your well-earned break!
<skellat> The Pennsylvania one is near Philadelphia
<skellat> (Relatively speaking)
<knome> relatively speaking, we almost sit next to each other (comparing to pluto)
<lderan> poor pluto :(
<Unit193> Still is in my book, and think they reinstated it.
<drc> nope...still a dwarf-planet/ plutoid
<skellat> It is like when Ashtabula gets lumped in as part of "Greater Cleveland".  We're only 60 miles away from the outer suburbs of Cleveland but, hey, what do I know...
<knome> by those standards, i live in the helsinki city centre!
<knome> by most standards, i do live quite near anyway!
<skellat> US Census Bureau officially **does not** include Ashtabula as part of the Cleveland metro area.  We're considered a "micropolitan" area for statistical purposes.
<drc> metropolitan statistical area?
<skellat> drc: Yep
<drc> marketeers are so smart :(
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> see you later
<lderan> me too
<lderan> good night all
<knome> nighty
<drc> bed bugs and all that....
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-28
<Unit193> bluesabre: What about line 5?  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-power-manager.xml#L5  And will you now unseed power-indicator?
<misko_2083> Hi people, I just wanted to tell you I figured out how to theme whisker menu. This is how it looks now http://i.imgur.com/5avMpA3.png
<Unit193> Well, that's one way to do it. :)
<Unit193> Does it use an extra css file in the theme?
<misko_2083> no, i added a few line in the .gtkrc-2.0 file in the /home directory and few images
<Unit193> Ah.
<misko_2083> The instructions are here: https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/index.php?topic=638.0
<misko_2083> reply #3
<Unit193> Alright.  Though I personally don't use whisker.
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/commit/?id=635521fe76d5969d49f2da98a8013e32fa394848
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193 I haven't used compton much myself, guess it
<ochosi> 's better to hear Unit193 on it :)
<ochosi> but it would be very nice to get that in
<ochosi> and yup, unseeding indicator-power is a good idea
<brainwash> oh wow, that's an impressive bug report bug 1347272
<ubottu> bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "Several XFCE applications appear irresponsible after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347272
<brainwash> add it to the utopic roadmap?
<bluesabre> ali1234, I think you had noticed this initially right ^, is it a large effort to fix for each application?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I've got the commits in to drop it, am going to experiment with compton today, finalize the config, and then push it all
<bluesabre> ochosi: show-tray-icon does nothing now, right?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yup, no more trayicon
<ochosi> also, that fork/init problem should already be fixed in xfpm
<ochosi> (even if it's still unreleased)
<ochosi> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=216a5b750ccbe9fda98e0456a607230cd8c52303
<bluesabre> property dropped from our config
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> btw, if you have time, we'd also need the settings dialog entries back in our menu file
<ochosi> so that whiskermenu can find them
<ochosi> (instead of the single link to the settings manager)
<ochosi> there should even be an existing bugreport for it
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> if you can find the bug report, I'll happily take care of that today
<bluesabre> that addresses an existing menulibre bug too ;)
<brainwash> bug 1310264
<ubottu> bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264
<brainwash> :P
<bluesabre> thanks :D
<ochosi> cool, thanks
<bluesabre> alrighty, heading out, be back tonight
<ochosi> same here
<ochosi> ttyl
<bluesabre> seeya
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/494
<bluesabre> bbl
<skellat> bluesabre: The number of duplicates on LP Bug 1347705 is growing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347705 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Split theme packages do not properly declare conflicts" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1347705
<skellat> Possibly need to put a blog post out or something to warn people to apt-get dist-upgrade perhaps
<Unit193> Hrm, not going to have the settings menu in addition to the settings manager?  Alright...
<Unit193> But, not in a bad way.  +1 for good style. :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure you saw it but eric_the_idiot posted two nice patches for parole today
<Unit193> Meh, Eric is always posting great patches... :D
<ochosi> true that
<ochosi> it's not for nothing that he's the #1 contributor
<ochosi> (in the last 12 months that is)
<bluesabre> skellat, Unit193: how?  I was pretty sure I had actually fixed that issue
<bluesabre> Unit193: care to have a look at that and see what I did wrong?
<bluesabre> or, does it happen because of that one bad package regardless?
<bluesabre> I was able to clean install over the broken
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> yeah, that one bad package
<bluesabre> yay, we have several daily testers
<Unit193> Looking now just to confirm.
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> I think at this point, it's just apport bugging them about each of that failed packages from that single install
<Unit193> Greeeat, someone seems to have screwed up thermald...
<bluesabre> D:
<Unit193> Yeah... Had to edit the service file to ExecStart=/bin/true just to do the shimmer test.  All good there though.
<ochosi> hey folks
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> how's it going?
<bluesabre> good
<bluesabre> just guessed what compton config to use for the new xfwm4 alt-tab
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> so did it work?
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> sorry i can't really help with the compton config, but with nvidia i could never get it to play nicely
<bluesabre> still experimenting with different values for the shadows
<bluesabre> the compton in trusty works well with nvidia
<ochosi> responsive and less tearing?
 * ochosi is sceptical
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> i'll gladly test it
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7889359/
<bluesabre> save as ~/.compton.conf
<bluesabre> be sure to kill xfwm4 compositor first
<bluesabre> use_compositing=false in the settings manager
<ochosi> looks nice
<ochosi> apart from the shadows
<ochosi> they have a bit of a horizontal offset
<ochosi> whereas in xfwm4 they're horizontally centered and only have a slight vertical offset
<ochosi> the fade effects are smooth, so that far i can say it's good
<ochosi> i'll try a fullscreen video next
<bluesabre> yeah, for the shadow settings try: 6, -9, -8
<ochosi> not bad, fullscreen video looks good so far
<bluesabre> or help me experiment to find a nice set
<bluesabre> yeah, it works well
<ochosi> what's a bit choppy is plank's autohide
<ochosi> compton makes the windows kinda "snap" to plank's edge if you move them slowly
<ochosi> it's actually window-size + shadow + size
<ochosi> hm, can't really experiment much now, i'm trying to help jannis finish the panel's intellihide
<ochosi> (so maybe i can one day live without plank :))
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> yeah, work on that ;)
 * ochosi is doing his best, which is probably not good enough
<ochosi> the shadow disappears a bit after the window, but it's not too bad
<ochosi> bluesabre: that shadow config looks much better btw
<bluesabre> ochosi, cool
<bluesabre> I think I like this for the shadows:
<bluesabre> shadow-radius = 6;			# The blur radius for shadows. (default 12)
<bluesabre> shadow-offset-x = -9;		# The left offset for shadows. (default -15)
<bluesabre> shadow-offset-y = -9;		# The top offset for shadows. (default -15)
<bluesabre> shadow-opacity = 0.6;
<bluesabre> still experimenting a lot :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-29
<ochosi> btw, i set the vertical offset for the shadow because the light source is "from above" in our theme
<ochosi> time for bed
<bluesabre> thanks for the tip ochosi, this feels a lot more Greybird: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7889923/
<bluesabre> Unit193: thoughts?
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/QIwZ84y.png    Left: xfwm4 compositor, Right: compton
<Unit193> Er, I was supposed to respond.  Uhhh, sure?
<bluesabre> I thought you used compton, so thought I bounced it off you :)
<Unit193> Heh, nooope.  I tried it a bit before trusty was released.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Installing.
<Unit193> (That's why it was hard to find some config for it, purged and deleted.)
<bluesabre> got it
<Unit193> We'll see if this also fixes the xfwm4 glitches.
<Unit193> Wow, lag in Skype.
<Unit193> Hrm, it's actually when you minimize all windows, and pull one up again.  Something to do with the desktop.
 * bluesabre cannot test performance-related things, everything works well
<Unit193> https://github.com/chjj/compton/blob/master/src/compton.c#L5175 handy.
<bluesabre> oh good, I hate cluttering $HOME
<Unit193> I dislike cluttering home and /etc/skel/ ;)
<Unit193> Reminds me, ToZ had a good point on .Xdefaults and xscreensaver.Dialog.borderWidth
<ToZ> I did?
<bluesabre> this sounds familiar
<bluesabre> have the link?
<Unit193> 02/#xubuntu-devel.2014-02-19.log.gz:20:53:12 < ToZ> should I create a bug report to suggest a cosmetic change to the xscreensaver unlock dialog (change is actually to /etc/skel/.Xdefaults from xubuntu-default-settings) to remove the white border?
<Unit193> 02/#xubuntu-devel.2014-02-19.log.gz:20:57:37 < ToZ> set "xscreensaver.Dialog.borderWidth:        0" - gets rid of the thick white border
<ToZ> ...and there it is.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> ToZ: I've use it, it is nicer.
<Unit193> s/I've/I/
<bluesabre> just tested, muuuuuch nicer
<Unit193> bluesabre done be on a roll.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> But, shouldn't you consult your visual aid? ;)
<bluesabre> so I noticed that the Settings Menu appears above the other menus in whisker (hierarchy and all that)
<bluesabre> so, wondering if I should add the Settings Manager launcher back and have the Settings menu in alphabetical order with the others
<bluesabre> thoughts?  Seems least invasive that way
<bluesabre> and only a tiny bit repetitive for classic menu users
<Unit193> Putting  Settings Manager then a seperator makes sense for the classic menu users though.
<bluesabre> ok, think I've decided on a good setup
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Explain?
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/VAbLGmt.png
<bluesabre> works well with both menus this way
<Unit193> Will have to get used to it, but makes logical sense.
<bluesabre> somebody will complain, but ui freeze isn't until september ;)
<Unit193> It'd be great to get more feedback from people, but I'm +1 for this.
<Unit193> bluesabre: May be more than needed, but what do you think about before/after of whisker+classic and propose at the next meeting?
<bluesabre> Well, next meeting is in a few hours, so fine by me :)
<bluesabre> whisker: https://imgur.com/52N8SmP
<bluesabre> added to agenda
<bluesabre> time to go pick up wife/wait in car for an hour
<bluesabre> be back tomorrow
<Unit193> Hahaha. :D  Have fun.
<Unit193> bluesabre: While we're at it, could list other changes made at the meeting, but I won't be there. :P
<elfy> bluesabre: some [info] for meeting 
<elfy> image testing is moribund
<elfy> so is package testing
<Unit193> bluesabre, ochosi: Debian #756359 (Not for seeding, but nevertheless).
<ubottu> Debian bug 756359 in wnpp "RFP: compton-conf -- Qt configuration tool for X composite manager" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/756359
<ochosi> hey folks, would you mind if we postpone the meeting 30mins? gotta take someone to the trainstation...
<bluesabre> ok, fine by me
<bluesabre> btw, we already have clutter in xubuntu, abiword pulls it
<ochosi> woot?
<ochosi> that's absurd...
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> well "lucky" us i guess, we can use the parole clutter backend "for free" :p
<ochosi> but still, this seems just like another reason to get rid of abiword
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, only requires the installation of gstreamer1.0-clutter, 111 kb
<ochosi> (or can it be built without clutter?)
<bluesabre> woops
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> pinging Unit193 is always a good idea
<bluesabre> didn't mean to write that to Unit193, was going to send something else
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> but forgot
<ochosi> :}
 * skellat is ready for meeting
<doubleplusgood> Wow right on the number
<bluesabre> nice skellat
<bluesabre> I think we might wait a few minutes for ochosi if that's ok?
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> It'll be probably my first meeting in 2014 to attend
<bluesabre> congrats :)
<sh4tr> have you experienced scroll lag+high cpu/xorg ?
<bluesabre> I haven't noticed anything of the sort recently
<doubleplusgood> Somewhat, but I think that was compton.
<brainwash> xubuntu 14.10?
<brainwash> bluesabre: so we can close bug 1349056 now?
<ubottu> bug 1349056 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager doesn't suspend on lid closed (regression)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1349056
<brainwash> according to the last comment
<brainwash> or is some fixing needed?
<doubleplusgood> I think so
<bluesabre> That might need some fixing actually
<bluesabre> ochosi, eric_the_idiot ^
<doubleplusgood> Although, I just tried it on my laptop and it gave me a black screen...
<bluesabre> doubleplusgood, please see the "Other Info, #3" section of this bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1326740
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1326740 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu Utopic) "[SRU] Please backport xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu6 to trusty" [Critical,Fix released]
<doubleplusgood> bluesabre: Fixed
<doubleplusgood> bluesabre: Thanks
<bluesabre> :)
<doubleplusgood> Is there any development on xfwm's compositor?
<brainwash> not really, ali1234 was doing some experiments some months ago
<bluesabre> !team | meeting in 4 minutes
<ubottu> meeting in 4 minutes: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 29 10:30:35 2014 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> !team | Meeting time
<ubottu> Meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> So, who's here?
<skellat> o/
<doubleplusgood> Here
 * knome is lurking a bit
 * bluesabre hasn't guided one of these meetings in a while
<knome> good luck ;)
<knome> you basically need #topic, #subtopic, #action and #info
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> ochosi should be back shortly
<bluesabre> #topic Open action items
<bluesabre> #info xubuntu packageset has been updated with the packages we ship, so uploads should be simpler now
<bluesabre> #info gstreamer1.0-clutter is the only additional package if we ship parole with a clutter backend
<skellat> #info The "split theme package" bug may subside after the recent QA upload for shimmer-themes but catching duplicates has to be done manually.
<knome> any news/progress on getting the list of packageset packages to the wiki?
<bluesabre> I think ochosi followed up on that one
<bluesabre> oh wait, we did not make progress on that
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> but I think ochosi did "bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list "
<skellat> Which relates to the gksu issue
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki
<bluesabre> #nick slickymaster
<bluesabre> #info slickymaster wrote a draft for "things to do after a 12.04 to 14.04 upgrade"
<bluesabre> I guess we can move on to updates now
<bluesabre> #topic Team updates
<ochosi> sorry for being late
 * ochosi took JPohlmann to the train
<bluesabre> #info new packages in utopic: xfce4-power-manager, xfwm4
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> wb
<ochosi> ty, and hey everyone
<skellat> #info From overwatch on bugs, there has been a small effort to try to treat design decisions as bugs and patch them away
<skellat> #info Such bugs that have attempted to re-open design decision have been flagged as opinion for now
<skellat> At least when I catch them
<bluesabre> Thanks for that :)
<ochosi> #info xfwm4 tabwin needs small theme updates/tweaks, ochosi has local patches for that already
<ochosi> (things look okayish by default though)
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> question re: clutter
<ochosi> what other packages would be pulled in if we decided to get rid of abiword at some point?
<skellat> What would we ditch abiword in favor of?
<ochosi> i mean: what packages would be pulled in/needed by parole other than gstreamer1.0-clutter
<ochosi> skellat: i guess nothing
<ochosi> skellat: but anyway, let's not go there *now*, i just wanna know in case ;)
<skellat> Okay
<knome> let's talk about the abiword replacing later
<knome> (i mean, in this meeting..)
<ochosi> sure, why not
 * skellat would run rdepends if he wasn't sitting at a Debian Jessie ARM box at the moment
<bluesabre> yeah, we'll have plenty for Discussion today :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, so would you happen to know or shall we investigate that later? (or are you investigating now? :D)
<bluesabre> ochosi: looks like this, gstreamer1.0-clutter libclutter-1.0-0 libclutter-1.0-common libclutter-gtk-1.0-0
<bluesabre> possibly more
<ochosi> right
<bluesabre> but I can send the current file listing in utopic to see what is *currently* installed
<bluesabre> we can review that later
<ochosi> well i guess as long as we keep abiword it's a no-brainer to add the clutter backend
<bluesabre> do we want to move to Announcements?
 * bluesabre always feels like team updates and announcements are the same
<ochosi> yeah, i kinda agree
<bluesabre> #topic Announcements
<bluesabre> #info Xubuntu 14.04.1 released last week, good job everyone!
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> ochosi: are we participating in alpha2, or only betas this cycle?
<ochosi> iirc only betas
<bluesabre> ok, thought so when I checked our calendar
<bluesabre> anybody else have any announcements?
<ochosi> #info Xfce has made some progress towards new development releases that we will most likely want to pick for 14.10
<ochosi> btw, how does that micro-release exception work exactly wrt that ^ ?
<bluesabre> We've been picking them as they are released :)
<bluesabre> with the MRE, not entirely sure
<bluesabre> since big changes happen with dev releases
<ochosi> well i'm thinking 14.04
<bluesabre> and we are running on top of 4.11 in 14.04
<bluesabre> I assume the usual rules apply
<ochosi> yeah, that is true for a few of those releases...
<bluesabre> with regard to interface freeze, etc
<ochosi> right, i guess i have to look up what MRE is about exactly at some point
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> discussion time?
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #subtopic Default IRC client
<bluesabre> I'm still not sure we have a clear direction with this yet
<ochosi> me neither
<bluesabre> However, I did find yesterday that Mint switched from xchat to hexchat
<knome> i don't think we ever will, we just need to make a decision
<knome> what would you guys think of the following:
<skellat> Mint does not equal *buntu
<ochosi> yeah, probably a vote
<knome> drop xchat for 14.10
<ochosi> skellat: sure, but it means maintenance/attention usually
<knome> see what the feedback is like
<ochosi> yeah, somehow i'm all for experimenting a bit in the upcoming cycle
<knome> if the feedback is people want an IRC client, consider including xchat/hexchat for 15.04
<ochosi> and point ppl to pidgin meanwhile
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> that sounds good to me
<skellat> +1
<ochosi> yup, same here
<knome> as i've said in the ML, pidgin is a fairly good IRC client for people who IRC only occasionally
<ochosi> yeah, and it's a consequent move after getting rid of gthumb
<knome> yep
<knome> streamline
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> #vote Drop xchat for Xubuntu 14.10
<meetingology> Please vote on: Drop xchat for Xubuntu 14.10
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<ochosi> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
<bluesabre> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<skellat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from skellat
<doubleplusgood> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from doubleplusgood
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Drop xchat for Xubuntu 14.10
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<knome> bluesabre, was that a team or public vote?
<bluesabre> knome: good question, should have specified
<bluesabre> each of the team members present voted in favor of
<knome> not that it seems to matter much, both XPL and XTL agreed
<knome> but with the current team size, we don't have a quorum ;)
<bluesabre> We should go ahead and extend this to the ML
<skellat> Back out the vote and throw it to CIVS?
<ochosi> bluesabre: we can extend it to the ml, but please add a timeout (1 week should do)
<knome> skellat, why would we want to use complex voting methods if we can do a simple vote on the mailing list?
<bluesabre> ochosi: want to send that mail?
<skellat> knome: Force of habit from LoCo Council so that we had a paper trail to back up what we did
<skellat> An external paper trail, that is
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, fine :)
<bluesabre> #action ochosi to send mail to ML to vote for dropping xchat for 14.10
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to send mail to ML to vote for dropping xchat for 14.10
<bluesabre> #subtopic Gksu/do
<bluesabre> ochosi: did you get a chance to chat with ubuntu-devel folks on this?
<ochosi> i did
<ochosi> there were some comments about pkexec being superior and gksu being hackery
<ochosi> but tbh nothing too-convincing
<ochosi> the other thing is though that it doesn't seem hard to add support for pkexec
<ochosi> and i guess the list of apps that need it isn't overly long
<ochosi> (the hackery concerning e.g. how that pwd-dialog is done etc)
<knome> is there any reason not to move to pkexec (apart from the one-off workload) ?
<ochosi> well, actually we just fixed a bug wrt pkexec in xfce this weekend (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9373)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9373 in General "double fork breaks desktop files containing pkexec" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<bluesabre> at this point, we've carried 2 (or 3) releases without gksu
<ochosi> yeah, not too much of an outcry so far
<knome> you're not answering my question :P
<ochosi> :>
<bluesabre> I see no reason to not move to pkexec, other than old habits (gksudo) die hard
<ochosi> +1
<knome> right, then let's move into it
<skellat> I don't see any reason to avoid the shift to pkexec other than we'll have a differing paradigm from other flavours in case people shift to us.
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> if it's horrible, we can reassess that in 15.04 as well
<ochosi> well for the moment it means improving the status quo if we add policy file
<ochosi> s
<ochosi> so i'd go for this incremental improvement and see whether it helps
<bluesabre> indeed
<ochosi> anything from the docs-side on this?
<ochosi> is gksu/do part of the docs? is pkexec mentioned at all?
<bluesabre> I think gksu parts of the docs were removed, right?
<knome> there was some work done on it
<knome> since david is away, you can assign a work item for me to check our situation
<bluesabre> #action knome to check docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to check docs side of including pkexec policy files in favor of gksu
<bluesabre> good?
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> #subtopic Xfce bug bounty program
<ochosi> #info ochosi has helped to set up a bug bounty programme on bountysource.com for Xfce
<ochosi> i think it would be good to support that by informing people
<ochosi> we can discuss whether we want to directly put some of our funds on bugreports a bit later
<ochosi> but the first step should be to put out a blog-post on x.org, g+, fb, twitter, well all the usual suspects basically
<knome> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<meetingology> ACTION: marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<ochosi> would be very cool if i wouldn't be the only one doing it
<knome> #nick makreting
<knome> #nick marketing
<ochosi> cause i'm already handling a lot of that upstream at xfce
<knome> ochosi, be in touch with the marketing team (eg. me and pleia2) and talk about that, and things will get done
<ochosi> ok, ty
<bluesabre> #subtopic Trello and Blueprints
<bluesabre> "Discuss how to continue with Trello and blueprints and evaluate how things are going so far. Also: should the Trello board be public?"
<bluesabre> So far, I think Trello works well. Makes it easy to find and keep up with task items
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i think it should be public though
<ochosi> i don't remember who brought that up earlier (maybe it was in bluesabre's application for upload-rights?)
<skellat> Yeah, Scott Kitterman brought it up then
<ochosi> but i don't see any reason to keep this private, since bps are also public
<bluesabre> Yeah, it should be public.
<knome> my concern is that when we are using trello, the blueprints aren't kept up-to-date
<ochosi> well i guess in the long run the question is whether to s/blueprints/trello/
<ochosi> but yeah, we've had that problem of not up-to-date blueprints in previous cycles
<ochosi> and using trello "on the side" this cycle certainly hasn't contributed to mitigating that situation
<bluesabre> I don't think I'd want to get rid of blueprints
<knome> yes, trello is okay, but then we shouldn't use blueprints at all
<knome> the pro for blueprints is that they are always up-to-date regarding bugs linked to them
<knome> and when they are linked to the status tracker, it's very easy to get an up-to-date overview of the progress
<knome> of course you need to keep the manually added work items in the blueprints up-to-date as well
<knome> but with trello, you have to keep the trello board updated
<knome> the work items,
<knome> the bugs
<knome> and in addition there are no good overview stats
<skellat> One keeps us more firmly grounded within the Ubuntu ecosystem, one does not.  Where do we stand is the question we have to consider in the end.
<knome> i don't think that's the core question
<ochosi> knome: yup, i agree. the best thing (imho) would be to improve launchpad :>
<knome> the core question is what works best with the team
<knome> i mean, many teams have stopped using blueprints already
<ochosi> but since that's not likely to happen, i guess we have to see what we can live with
<knome> i prefer the method we used for the reasons stated above
<ochosi> the sluggishness of launchpad is quite a downer, but yeah, it has all those pros that you mentioned
<knome>  but i'm fine with trello
<skellat> knome: True.  How have our Kubuntu colleagues managed the use of Trello and the use of Launchpad?
<ochosi> skellat: they exclusively use trello
<knome> whatever we decide to do, we should make it clear for possible new members what and how we are using
<knome> and describe the process
<skellat> knome: Agreed
<knome> so what's the evaluation on trello so far?
<ochosi> i personally like it
<ochosi> it's quite snappy an the overview it provides works well for me
<ochosi> it's less statistical than status.ubuntu thoug
<ochosi> h
<bluesabre> It works well for having an overview of what everyone is doing without jumping between blueprints and bug reports
<knome> bluesabre, what about the overview page of the status page?
<ochosi> yeah, the jumping between blueprints is a bit annoying, because they're so slow in usage
<knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html
<bluesabre> I find that I don't know where most things are on launchpad
<ochosi> knome: for me, that one is a bit cluttered. i mean it's really comprehensive but too much
<bluesabre> this is a super helpful page, but I would not know how to get here without your link
<knome> i partly agree
<ochosi> the simplicity is what i prefer there with trello
<ochosi> so yeah, as i said, i'd prefer to improve on the existing infrastructure actually
<knome> bluesabre, ehm, go to the main page: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/ and click the xubuntu link
<knome> links are obviously for T, because U hasn't been set up
<knome> that page also always has links to the blueprints
<knome> so you can access those easily as well
<bluesabre> and there's that
<knome> setting up? that takes 5 minutes
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> but we haven't done it yet
<knome> if *that's* the reason what's keeping us from using launchpad, i'll promise to do that every cycle
<knome> bluesabre, well, yeah, because i didn't get any questions about it from ochosi until i asked him a few days ago whether we were going to set it up altogether
<bluesabre> that's cool, but I think that's the problem with launchpad
<knome> what then?
<knome> things not setting up automatically?
<bluesabre> too many links, too much content
<knome> was the trello board set up magically?
<ochosi> i kinda agree with bluesabre there, the learning curve for launchpad is really different from trello and the likes
<knome> i understand and can agree
<Noskcaj> Did i just miss a meeting or something?
<ochosi> it took me ages and lots of energy to slowly start using it
<ochosi> Noskcaj: we're still in the middle
<knome> but it's really a crap argument that "it's too hard to set it up, boo hoo" when it takes 5 minutes
<Noskcaj> I'm here for ~5 mins
<bluesabre> right, that's not my argument
<knome> right,
<knome> now when the cycle was beginning
<knome> i was told we were going to use both trello and blueprints to see how they work and which works better
<knome> obviously i gathered that wrong, because we've mostly been using trello
 * bluesabre just needs to collect all his bookmarks to navigate launchpad
<bluesabre> I might be the only one with this issue :)
<knome> you don't need the bookmarks really
<knome> you only ned the main blueprint link
<knome> or the status.u.c link
<knome> (for the blueprint stuff, that is)
<skellat> pad.lv truly helps too 
<knome> i'm not saying people shouldn't have problems perceiving that.
<ochosi> skellat: what's that?
<skellat> ochosi: The Launchpad-specific link shortener
<bluesabre> but yeah, I agree that trello has been getting updated more frequently than the blueprints
<bluesabre> and that is probably because its easier to use and everything is always in front of you
<ochosi> sure, that's mostly a fact
<knome> well the comparison is obviously flawed because the blueprints aren't set up the way they are supposed to
<ochosi> (i mean the less frequent updates)
<knome> and when we decided to use... well, "both", i asked whether people would be up for that
<knome> and everybody was like "sure!"
<knome> well, now we see it
<knome> we really can't use BOTH
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> knome: the only thing lacking in the bps is the link to status.ubuntu though, right?
<knome> if we aren't using blueprints, let's not even register them then.
<knome> ochosi, yeah, and people updating them
 * skellat throws out the ridiculous suggestion of somebody building a bridge using launchpadlib between trello and lp
<knome> ochosi, i don't think you can do a fair comparison between the two during one cycle, because keeping them both up-to-date means almost double the work
<knome> ochosi, and people are always going to prefer either or
<bluesabre> Do we want to continue this discussion a bit later to finish up the meeting?  Or we can create some action items?  I'll need to leave for work shortly
<skellat> I need to bow out too
<knome> i don't think we're going to find a resolution with this group of people anyway
<ochosi> sounds sane
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> just wanted to raise my concerns
<ochosi> well personally i don't have that many blueprints anyway
<ochosi> so for me it's not so much work to keep both updated
<knome> ochosi, work item?
<knome> ochosi, you personally, but
<ochosi> knome: that too, but i also am only involved in two blueprints
<knome>  [unit193] Propose a new installable metapackage, xubuntu-core: INPROGRESS
<knome> isn't that done?
<ochosi> i know that it's different with others
<knome> i don't think Unit193 has many items either
<bluesabre> #action team to continue discussion using Trello, Blueprints
<meetingology> ACTION: team to continue discussion using Trello, Blueprints
<ochosi> should be, it's in xubuntu-meta but i don't know whether it's uploaded
<knome> i'm not blaming anybody, i'm just saying that it isn't working
<bluesabre> It's uploaded
<skellat> #nick team
<knome> besides the work item is "propose", that's surely done
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> :]
<knome> just pointing out
<bluesabre> Unit193 ^
<ochosi> knome: fine, let's send a grumpy email to the ml pointing team members towards updating their blueprints
<ochosi> we can figure out the status.ubuntu thing later
<ochosi> (maybe not today, but one of these days)
<knome> also,
<knome> let me say this one last thing:
<knome> since you say launchpad is so hard to use
<knome> and trello is easy
<knome> why do we need to have "notes"/"help" cards in the trello main view to help people use trello?
<knome> no need to answer, just wanted to point that out.
<bluesabre> #subtopic Merged Settings menu in Whisker and classic menu
 * ochosi has never looked at those
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1310264
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> ochosi, i never looked at the launchpad documentation... :P
<bluesabre> So, I've updated the menu files in xubuntu-default-settings, want to get more feedback
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/52N8SmP.png
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/VAbLGmt.png
<bluesabre> In the classic menu, I've made the Settings menu its own item, do we want to keep this, or how would we like to continue?
<ochosi> that looks excellent to me
<ochosi> i think we've had this setup previously in the classic menu
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> it's a good fallback and with our default whisker it'll be a nice improvement
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, that looks as if some icons were not 16px in that menu
<ochosi> if you could check and let me know which ones, i'll try to fix that in our icon-theme
<skellat> I like the new look
<bluesabre> ok, so if we agree to this, I can push that today
<ochosi> please do so
<knome> yep, looks good
<bluesabre> We also have a few other changes in the next xubuntu-default-settings, if I can get some quick feedback
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/debian/changelog
<bluesabre> I did a bit of tidying based on comments in the past
<ochosi> not sure what the 20px thing is about, but the rest is fine
<bluesabre> 1. Removed the huge white border from xscreensaver, we don't use it anymore, but it does make it look much more attractive
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> then i'm +1 on that
<ochosi> the battery-plugin will maybe be renamed to xfpm-plugin (because the brightness plugin has been merged in)
<ochosi> but adding it to the panel is good
<bluesabre> Also added a reasonable config for compton which mimics our current xfwm compositor
<ochosi> don't forget to take indicator-power out of the seed
<bluesabre> yup, that's committed
<bluesabre> just gotta update meta
<ochosi> or, if we still seed it (so that we have power-indicator in the greeter/lockscreen) we need to hide it in the indicator-plugin
<ochosi> i've been testing the compton config on two different setups now and it looks and feels good. this is probably the first time i'm satisfied with compton, so nice work on that :)
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> so that's that for xubuntu-defualt-settings
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> thanks a bunch bluesabre 
<bluesabre> #subtopic Parole's clutter backend
<bluesabre> #info Abiword already pulls clutter, so parole only adds gstreamer1.0-clutter (111 kb)
<bluesabre> #info With the clutter backend, parole works correctly even in virtualbox
<bluesabre> #info performance for clutter is less than xv, but better than just X
<bluesabre> So, what do we want to do?
<ochosi> i'm personally in favor of enabling it
<ochosi> same as with the xchat decision, i'm for trying this in 14.10
<ochosi> we can revisit it in 15.04 (or even before the release) if there are some terrible unforeseeable drawbacks
<bluesabre> With enabling it, do we want to set it as default as well?
<bluesabre> knome: any thoughts, for or against?
<knome> 14.10 is a non-LTS release so it's the perfect place to test new things
<ochosi> i guess by setting it as default, it would get quite a bit of testing
<ochosi> since totem also uses it by default, i don't see a huge problem there
<ochosi> we should document that though somewhere
<knome> another option is to ask Unit193 to build a custom ISO
<knome> and get that testing
<ochosi> yeah, if it's only about that one package, i suggest we just go ahead with it
<knome> just make sure the final assessment if it works or not happens early enough to be able to revert the change
<bluesabre> of course :)
<ochosi> i guess enabling by default is a thing for x-d-s anyway
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> so the first step of adding it in parole is definitely fine
<knome> i know it is an obvious thing, but we've been too late before ;)
<ochosi> knome: true, but this time we actually have an uploader ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: so yeah, i'm +1 on both (add, default)
<bluesabre> ok, I'll make these changes today
<knome> ochosi, yeah yeah
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> thanks again bluesabre 
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
<bluesabre> Anything else we want to discuss?
<ochosi> nothing from my side at this point
<bluesabre> knome, skellat?
<skellat> I'm good
<knome> i guess dropping abiword
<knome> but we can do that later
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> hmright
<bluesabre> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> Who's next?
<knome> pleia2, 
<bluesabre> #action pleia2 to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 29 12:13:19 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-07-29-10.30.moin.txt
<bluesabre> *phew*
<knome> thanks bluesabre 
<bluesabre> thanks guys
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre :)
<skellat> Thank you bluesabre 
 * bluesabre heads to work
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> i gotta go too, have a nice day everyone!
<knome> you too
<elfy> well that was tldr 
<elfy> why is there a   * ''Vote:'' Drop xchat for Xubuntu 14.10 (Carried) on the logs
<elfy> should that not go to the mailing list
<knome> didn't undo the vote, but it'll be on the mailing list shortly
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> seen it 
<edmael> Hi!
<edmael> I'm trying to hack some Xfce component but I'd like to understand how they're compiled on Xubuntu and what make or autogen options are used. Is there a simple way to check this? On Arch I used to check the PKGBUILD and it's pretty simple, I wonder if there's a similar way.
<edmael> Hi
<elfy> hello
<edmael> I'm trying to compile Xfce-panel, but I get this error and I can't understand why: :~/Developement/xfce4-panel$ ./autogen.sh --sysconfdir=/etc --libexecdir=/usr/lib --disable-static --enable-gio-unix --localstatedir=/varxdt-autogen: You must have "glib2" installed. You can get if from
<edmael>              ftp://ftp.gtk.org/pub/gtk/.
<knome> edmael, do you have the development libraries for glib2 installed?
<edmael> developement libraries for glib2? Where can I find them?
<knome> in the repositories...
<edmael> I've got the Xfce developement libraries installed
<edmael> $ sudo apt-get install gli
<edmael> glibc-doc                 glib-networking-dbg       glines
<edmael> glibc-doc-reference       glib-networking-services  glipper
<edmael> glibc-source              glib-networking-tests     gliv
<edmael> glib-networking           glide2-bin                
<edmael> glib-networking-common    gliese            
<eric_the_idiot> apt-get build-dep xfce4-panel  should pull in the required packages for building the panel
<knome> edmael, please
<knome> edmael, do not paste multiline pastes on the channel
<edmael> Sorry knome 
<knome> apt-cache search glib2: libglib2.0-dev - Development files for the GLib library
<knome> (if you insist using command line...)
<edmael> I still get an error. Maybe it's cause I'm using Xubuntu 14.10? It tells me that libglib2.0-dev depends on libglib2.0-0 (= 2.41.1-2) but the version 2.41.2-1~ubuntu1 is going to be installed (and then it stops).
<Unit193> knome: Yeah, that is rather my fault, I didn't update the BP.
<knome> Unit193, that's not the point, but thanks for keeping it up-to-date ;)
<Unit193> I would have gotten the trello card, had Sean not already done so. :D  And yeah, know it's not the point, but still.
<knome> just proves my point
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/8s4GUZ7RFQyOfgH1zEvq latest Xubuntu stats.
<Unit193> Eh, trello is more handy to get to the dang specs for sure...
<Unit193> !info qtmir utopic
<ubottu> Package qtmir does not exist in utopic
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtmir
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: lemme know when we can talk about promiting bountysource for xfce â or whether there is actually a need for that
<ochosi> i guess what we want is pretty obvious, i.e. promote the programme on all our "channels"
<elfy> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> how's it going?
<elfy> ok thanks :)
<ochosi> good to hear
<elfy> tried to read the meeting logs - tldr, read the summary instead 
<ochosi> i guess bluesabre didn't have time to put up the minutes, as he had to leave immediately after the meeting
<ochosi> it took a bit longer than anticipated
<elfy> Unit193: so - I'd say that we need to test install of it, what it gives you - eg less than normal but enough 
<elfy> ochosi: yea I noticed :p
<knome> ochosi, i'm mostly off tomorrow and thursday
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'm actually also travelling around in the country and have meetings
<ochosi> is the beginning of next week or even the weekend more realistic for you?
<elfy> Unit193: mmm - so it just appears to be doing nothing now it's downloading bits
<elfy> oh
<elfy> kernel module problem 
<Unit193> Yeah, I had initramfs problem...
<elfy> ok 
<Unit193> (Told it to continue anyway, we'll see.)
<elfy> so it's not something we can write up and get people to just test yet then
<elfy> ploughing on for the moment :p
 * ochosi didn't know elfy had a plough
<elfy> yep
<elfy> and a horse to pull it :)
<ochosi> lucky you!
<elfy> I wish
<Unit193> elfy: So, does it look to be installing stuff it shouldn't?  It may be "Expert Command-line install" that we need if so.
<elfy> no it looks like it's installing the right stuff 
<elfy> retrieving partman etc atm
<elfy> Unit193: so it doesn't find the vbox drive ... 
<elfy> and the install option for me gets the same no kernel module found thing
 * elfy gives up for the night
<Unit193> Well, mine worked, but I had to use the caret option so I'm remembering wrong it seems. :P
 * Unit193 can't remember which gives tasksel.
<elfy> I don't get that far ... 
<ochosi> Unit193: remember to document that stuff ;)
<elfy> are you using 32bit or 64 bit - not that it should make a difference 
<Unit193> ochosi: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/core.html
<Unit193> elfy: 32.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that was just re: "remembering wrong" ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: Oh no, my memory is terrible, I know this well. :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> good good
<elfy> Unit193: forget that - I picked Install :D
<Unit193> ochosi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZLAlceZ2qo
<Unit193> elfy: That was my next try, thanks.
<elfy> well up to now everything has failed on kernel modules and not finding them
<elfy> and I think it is going to do the same again
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-290714-210529.php
<elfy> so I've had the same on every option and tried 32 and 64 bit
<ochosi> Unit193: will look as soon as that video from openshot has finished exporting
<ochosi> (so tomorrow maybe)
<Unit193> elfy: I'm also using us.
<elfy> gb archives here
<elfy> giving up for now
<ochosi> awwh
<Unit193> So, it seems to have worked.  Anything you want me to check, ochosi, knome?
<knome> was?
<Unit193> Is?
<Unit193> I did a mini+Command-line install and have a desktop.  Not sure if there's anything you want me to test?
<knome> can't come up with any ideas right now
<knome> ask me again on friday/saturday
<knome> nighty ->
<CajunTechie2> Hello everyone. Quick question: how does someone go about becoming a formal member of the Community team? If this isn't the place to ask, please point me in that direction. Thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-30
<skellat> CajunTechie: Which community team are you referring to?  You were previously in the #ubuntu-locoteams channel asking about teams and that is the correct place but didn't idle long enough until a council member could reply.  If you could head back over there, we may discuss things there.
<CajunTechie> Thank you Skellat! I appreciate it. I'm headed back to the locoteams chan.
<ochosi> morning
<elfy> morning 
<ochosi> elfy, Unit193: any chance you could (in the future) do the core discussions in here?
<Unit193> Sure, we did this afternoon.
<ochosi> i know, which is why i thought i should call you out this time ;)
<ochosi> so the problem is that with gb no kernel modules are found, but with us it'd work fine?
<Unit193> Well, figured that bit was more offtopic, still do, but whatever works I suppose.
<ochosi> well, it would be good to know what the status/progress of testing is
<Unit193> All I can say: Worked for meâ¢
<ochosi> elfy: any chance you could test with another language than gb?
<Unit193> s/language/repo/
<elfy> what's the point
<Unit193> And I don't think it offeres.
<ochosi> elfy: well confirming that it generally works?
<elfy> Unit193's confirmed that 
<ochosi> well, a single person doesn't confirm that much tbh
<ochosi> if it's not working with other repos (for whatever reason) that sucks then
<Unit193> Why not? :P
<ochosi> ;)
<elfy> we want other people to test this - at the moment then I have confirmed that it doesn't work 
<elfy> I don't see any point in confirming that it works 'somewhere' 
<ochosi> why not?
<elfy> because it's confirmed that it doesn't work 'everywhere'
<Unit193> Because he generally tests about 2 isos a day, and it's getting annoying?
<ochosi> right, any plan to get others to test it?
<Unit193> Once we know we won't get a ton of FP errors.
<ochosi> but that you don't know atm, you only know it works with us and doesn't with gb, right?
<Unit193> gb will give FPs, we know that.
<elfy> ochosi: so it works for you?
<ochosi> elfy: i haven't had time to test it yet
<elfy> oh sorry - us =US - read that wrong :)
<ochosi> ah hehe :)
<Unit193> us = me. :D
<ochosi> reminds me of that great quotation from the office: "there is no *i* in team. but there is *me*."
<ochosi> (the gb office that is, not the us version)
<ochosi> anyhoo, i realize i might be a bit of a pain in the ass here, but remember that that's currently in my job description...
<ochosi> can't either of you test another repo?
<elfy> trying now
<Unit193> You'd have to spoof your geoip, only ever lets me select the one.
<elfy> Unit193: I got to choose archive
<Unit193> elfy: I get to choose too, but there's only ever one option, us.archive.ubuntu.com. :P
<elfy> au fails
 * Unit193 redacts a comment there...
<elfy> trying us
<elfy> which looks like it's going to fail for me as well
<ochosi> weird
<elfy> perhaps it's vbox
<ochosi> would you say that's a question of the utopic cycle being so fresh?
<ochosi> or what other reasons would there be for it to fail
<elfy> anyway - work now - cya later
<ochosi> sure, seeya elfy 
<elfy> point - Unit193 you doing this from trusty or utopic?
<ochosi> and thanks for testing!
<Unit193> utopic, isn't in trusty.  vbox too.
<elfy> mmm odd
<elfy> anyway - off now 
<ochosi> Unit193: maybe we can get someone else from the us to confirm that it works to begin with ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: Might be a good idea to start using proper case. :P
<ochosi> and then move to other regions
 * ochosi likes the ambiguity
<Unit193> Well, does it matter too much?  There's going to be a lot of failures, and this is before the Xubuntu part so that's not the cause.
<ochosi> yeah, but it'd be good to know *why* it fails at least
<ochosi> (at least to me that's not crystall clear)
<Unit193> elfy: If you try a new install, grab a new iso too, if you would?
<Unit193> Uhhh, are we still tracking systemd?  208 should land after B2.
<ochosi> Unit193: not sure tbh, but best to bring it up with elfy or blue
<ochosi> gotta go...
<ochosi> bluesabre: i pushed updates to a few themes btw (greybird, orion, bluebird) for xfwm4.11.2
<ochosi> gotta talk to satya how he wants numix to look
<ochosi> albatross is fine-ish as is, i think we should drop that theme this cycle (unless knome or somebody else volunteers to maintain it)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll do releases soon i guess, but if you're already running utopic and could take a look whether anything else is missing or looks broken, that'd be great!
<ochosi> same goes for those icons in the classical appmenu that seemed too large
<ochosi> (could then do releases for themes and icons)
<bluesabre> ochosi: that would be cool
<elfy> ochosi Unit193 - seems to be working if I get the iso again and not use whatever was on core.html yesterday
<knome> olli, hhrgh
<knome> hump, ochosi ^
<olli> hhrgh?
<knome> olli, keep it for one more cycle and i'll promise to update it? ;]
<olli> ;)
<knome> sorry, wrong target
<knome> long day moving friends
<olli>  /nick illo
<knome> that would work! ;)
<olli> anything I can do for you ;)
<knome> hehe
 * knome offers olli some cookies and coffee
<elfy> ochosi: 64 bit failed debbootstrap 
<elfy> same in 32bit
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so forced it past that, when I get to the tasksel window - xubuntu minimum is not there
<knome> what about xubuntu minimal?
<knome> ;>
<elfy> that's as present as minimum
<knome> damn ;)
<elfy> waste of hours of my time
<knome> :(
<knome> sorry to hear that
<elfy> bluesabre: am I supposed to be seeing Settings in the whiskermenu now? 
<elfy> Unit193: nor in the 64bit :|
<ochosi> elfy: i guess that (settings) depends on your version of x-d-s and whether it's a clean install/new user
<ochosi> i'm not sure an upgrade overwrites the old menufile
<elfy> ok ochosi - thanks
<ochosi> while the changelog has been updated, i don't read anything from a version bump or a release
<ochosi> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk
<ochosi> so you might have to wait a little longer (unless you wanna just pull in rev494 by hand
<elfy> so - having to apt-get install xubuntu-core
<ochosi> i thought core isn't working?
<ochosi> or on top of what are you installing that now?
<Unit193> This is turning out to be very inconsistant.
<pleia2> ochosi: I've been thinking a lot about a donations page that points to things like the bounties, since folks on social media ask every few months how they can donate money and not even Xfce has a place anymore (they used to have a spot for donating to Thunar)
<pleia2> ochosi: but catch up with me next week, still recovering here :)
<SkippersBoss> evening
<Unit193> ochosi: So tasksel needs refreshed before it'll show up in there it seems.  The only things of note: https://unit193.net/noxubuntucore.png  https://unit193.net/debootstrapwarn1.png  https://unit193.net/mirror-selection.png
<ochosi> pleia2: sure, take your time to rest, we can talk whenever you're back on your feet
<ochosi> Unit193: how does that work? (refresh tasksel)
<Unit193> Don't know, so I asked.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Except now we get a battery panel item for desktops. :P
<ochosi> while that is true, it's still kinda useful
<ochosi> it handles your wireless mice and all devices that draw power (mp3 players etc)
<ochosi> and you get quick access to presentation mode and settings, so let's say it's at least not entirely useless
<Unit193> Ah, not entirely then.
<ochosi> at least it's easier to remove it from the panel ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: So, what's the deal with the xubuntu-*.desktop files?
<ochosi> which ones?
<Unit193> Linking to the website and stuff.
<ochosi> ah those ones
<ochosi> well what do you mean what's the deal? i guess they were a convenient way to link people to the documentation in the appmenu
<ochosi> (were and possibly still are)
<Unit193> Thought there was a comment about them, but I could be remembering wrong.
 * ochosi only read Unit193's comment from a few minutes ago...
<Unit193> OK, thanks.
<ochosi> np, if there's a deal with those .desktop files let me know!
<Unit193> Uhhh, well I'll let others say.
<ochosi> why?
<Unit193> Because it's personal taste.
<ochosi> you're still free to utter your opinion
<pleia2> did the non-automatic social media things for the 14.04.1 post (twitter & g+)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-31
<bluesabre>   elfy: should be fixed with x-d-s 14.10.1, but if you have a menu file in ~/.config/menus, it might override it
<bluesabre> pleia2: looks like they did now :)
<pleia2> bluesabre: I meant "I did" :)
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> ochosi: ...And now should have that done soon too.
<elfy> bluesabre: ta - bit of a facepalm from me there ... I'd be less than amused if an upgrade to it killed my custom menu entries :p
<elfy> Unit193: same debootstrap warning here
<Unit193> Meh, it's a warning.
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Unit193: but I has success \o/ 
<elfy> I guess after apt-get install -core you could start lightdm or something to get a desktop - but I gave up last night, restart the morning and all's well
<Unit193> \o/
<elfy> so it passes a test - it looks xubuntuish ;)
<Unit193> Yeah, went well for me the second time, and as soon as I catch cjwatson during UK working hours, tasksel will get the option too.
<Unit193> So, xubuntu-core
<elfy> excellent :)
<Unit193> ^
<elfy> Unit193: as a name?
<Unit193> No trying to make sure you installed 'xubuntu-core^', but hit the enter key.  Should have very few gnome or unity packages installed.  Very few total even.
<elfy> yea that's what I installed 
<elfy> from memory ~250Mb download 
<Unit193> Fantastic. :D
<elfy> but that is now yesterday - so memory could be a bit dodgy ... 
<Unit193> So what was different that permitted you to continue?
<elfy> well after I had the correct mini.iso and I ignored the debootstrap thing it installed to cli, then apt-get doodah
<Unit193> Ah, I see.
<elfy> so that's at least 1 of 32 and 64 bit in the wild now 
<elfy> that time I didn't get the login window
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> versy slow getting to login 
<elfy> and a login loop too
<Unit193> Guess you couldn't say why either? :/
<elfy> nope
<elfy> odd - worked earlier, now it doesn't - not got time to look any deeper atm
<Unit193> Sure sure, just ignore it, no rush on this stuff.  I'll see if I can get a broken one too.
<ochosi> morning folks
<ochosi> congrats Unit193 and elfy :)
<Unit193> Ehh.
<ochosi> slickyma1ter: i think it's time to hit "publish" on the 5 things to do article on x.org, would you like to do the honours?
<ochosi> (btw, i edited the paragraph in the beginning a little)
<elfy> ochosi: afaik slickyma1ter is away for a week or two
<ochosi> elfy: oh, thanks. i guess in that case i'll hit the publish button for him (we were done with the article anyway)
<elfy> ochosi: welcome :)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/iGoJRsNXUfmvtsL6S6iN/ current tally.
<Unit193> ochosi: Does the power icon plugin even last through an xfce4-panel -r for you?  Doesn't for me.. :/
<ochosi> Unit193: yes ofc it does
<ochosi> what version are you using? 1.3.0 or git master?
<ochosi> also, any output when restarting the panel from the commandline?
<Unit193> 1.3.0, utopic.  I don't believe it did.
<ochosi> try daily
<ochosi> bbabl
<bluesabre> :OOOO
<bluesabre> brightness slider is in xfpm battery plugin
<bluesabre> ochosi: consider setting a min value for the slider... at 0%, the damage is done ;)
<Unit193> ...Did you just do this?
<bluesabre> I did not... kept it clicked :D
<bluesabre> afraid to let go
<Unit193> Hah, was wondering. :P
<bluesabre> also, daily xfpm survives restart
<bluesabre> ftr
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Hrm..
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-01
<bluesabre> bbabl
<Unit193> Adios.
<ochosi> bluesabre: actually that seems to depend on kernel/hardware/drivers, it's impossible for me to switch it entirely off (i.e. there is a hardware limit or something)
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 26 comment systemd 208 now in utopic's main archive.
<xubutrello> Hi, Unit193.
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 26 comment systemd 208 now in utopic.
<xubutrello> Added "systemd 208 now in utopic." comment to "systemd testing" card.
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you could reply to hjudt on the xfce-devel email, i forwarded your issue (he's the backlight expert)
<bluesabre> aw, I have to open my email
<bluesabre> :<
<bluesabre> ochosi: responded
<ochosi> thanks :)
<ochosi> better to discuss such issues so that more ppl can easily follow
<ochosi> we might need more testing, the backlight stuff in particular, but the power manager as a whole needs lots of hw testing
<ochosi> (i mean it's unlikely to work worse than before, but...)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> also, i think currently the menu disappears when you let go of the handle, not sure i like that
<bluesabre> so, did Unit193 volunteer to package the soundmenu?
<bluesabre> yes it does, there is a way to fix that
<ochosi> kinda, but matias uses his own mpris library
<bluesabre> but I forgot the particulars
<ochosi> so that needs packaging as well
<bluesabre> fun
<ochosi> and i wanna ask him why that's necessary
<bluesabre> sounds like lots of work
<ochosi> yeah, since he wrote his own library, i don't believe he'll drop it because i ask
<bluesabre> probably because mpris is not the easiest to work with, and an interface library simplifies things
<ochosi> but if we consider it as an alternative to the soundmenu we currently have, we should talk about it
<bluesabre> I mean, its dbus, but complicated dbus
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> i think it'd be a good start for my plan to rid us of the dependency of indicators
<ochosi> i mean they generally work really nicely now, but i expect more problems ahead with the porting to phone etc
<ochosi> and unity8/qt
<ochosi> so i'd rather have alternatives ready when that starts going down
<bluesabre> yeah, makes sense to me
<ochosi> another thing i'm sometimes wondering about is what'll happen with the systray as soon as xfce goes gtk3
<ochosi> (no more xembed)
<ochosi> so plugins are generally a safe bet
<bluesabre> going to have some new releases of mugshot, catfish, and menulibre this weekend... time permitting
<bluesabre> ochosi, will you be around this weekend?
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> yeah, i will be
<ochosi> today i won't, gotta rush of to a family festivity
<ochosi> but sat and sun i should be around
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'll also try to email andrew today... but it seems like the greeter development finally slowed down
<ochosi> yeah, he didn't respond to my last email
<ochosi> guess he's busy
<ochosi> the dualhead setup is a nice feature, but having to write your own xrandr-script for the greeter... not sure about that
<ochosi> i mean it's still useful, generally speaking, but it'll only be a small fraction of all users that'd benefit from that
<bluesabre> yeah, but thats like most features in a login screen ;)
<ochosi> partly true, but this one generally has the potential to improve the default behavior
<ochosi> but i think we should move away from all the customizability a bit
<ochosi> it complicates the code quite a bit
<ochosi> and instead implement a better default
<ochosi> (not sure andrew will like that though)
<ochosi> righty, i gotta take off, ttyl
<bluesabre> agreed
<bluesabre> have fun, seeya
<ochosi> u2, cya
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734985 FWIW.
<ubottu> Debian bug 734985 in ibus "[ibus] ibus does not respect /etc/default/keyboard XKBOPTIONS" [Normal,Open]
<Unit193> bluesabre: So, if I have VLC and nightingale open, then hit 'play' in that panel plugin, what happens?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-02
<bluesabre> Unit193: good question
<ochosi> i'm wondering what to do about the community-submitted wallpapers from 14.04 in 14.10
<ochosi> not sure we simply wanna install them again by default, or whether we just leave the package in the repos for those who want it
<bluesabre> we run another contest
<ochosi> phu, not sure i have the energy for another contest
<elfy> then if not I think there's no reason to not use the same ones again ;)
<ochosi> well depends, that was a frequent point of criticism (even if it's hard for me to take it too seriously) that we only ship so few wallpapers by default
<ochosi> i really don't wanna do wallpaper contests every release, that's exhausting and the results will hardly be great every time
<elfy> but with the comm ones we ship more now don't we?
<elfy> maybe carry on with the 14.04 ones - if people want to do more they can talk to us 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> ah, i misread you there before
<elfy> anyway - I'm not really here - keep almost going
 * ochosi facepalms
<ochosi> i thought you said there's no reason to use the same ones again
<elfy> yea - thought so - which is why I said it slightly differently :)
<ochosi> guess i need a coffee or some rest, can't decide
<elfy> or both ;)
<elfy> little one now decides she's ready ... bye
<bluesabre> is there an easier way to do it?  Seems like using the wiki put a lot of workload on you guys
<bluesabre> anyway, it doesn't really matter to me either way ;)
<ochosi> not only that, there were many crappy submissions and i partly hunted down people who would submit stuff
<ochosi> now that 14.04 is released, i can disclose that most walls we voted in were those i found online before and got the authors to submit them
<ochosi> (well i guess most of you knew that anyway)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> but the voting also took a lot of time
<ochosi> we went through 3 rounds, which was good, but also tiresome
<ochosi> and agreed, the wiki made submissions and everything a lot of work, but it also had its benefits
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: For some reason I cannot inject a new mugshot package into debian... I've got the package here if you want to give it a shot (and not have to package it yourself)
<bluesabre> dget http://www.smdavis.us/tmp/mugshot_0.2.4-1.dsc
<ochosi> bluesabre: i discussed this with satya a few minutes ago, in 14.10 we'll retire albatross
<ochosi> so only greybird, numix, orion and possibly bluebird will remain
<bluesabre> ok, fine by me
 * ochosi downloads utopic daily build
<ochosi> you've split the shimmer-themes package into individual packages already, right?
<ochosi> if so, feel free to drop albatross anytime
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> what about the daily-archive? should that be updated with the new packaging too then?
<bluesabre> the ppa?
<ochosi> yup, this one. https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily
<bluesabre> yeah, its split already too
<bluesabre> for utopic
<ochosi> oh
<bluesabre> keeping all of our themes in that one
<bluesabre> so blackbird and albatross will stay there in case they are ever resurrected
<ochosi> basically depends on new contributors picking that up
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> don't see myself doing that :>
<bluesabre> ugh, so many differences for builds to work on older gtk
<ochosi> for what, parole 0.7?
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> why is it pulling gtk2?
<bluesabre> :\
<ochosi> huh fun
<bluesabre> I really disliked 13.10 for all the upstream issues
<bluesabre> I went 13.04 -> 14.04
<ochosi> yeah, never upgraded my gf's laptop to 13.10 and used 14.04 from its early stages
<ochosi> hm nice, the installer for utopic failed :/
<ochosi> (partitioner)
<ochosi> for some reason the menu separators don't look very nice in gtk3 in utopic
<bluesabre> guess its time for me to start running utopic fulltime to nag you
<ochosi> heh, well actually satya said he'd take care of the gtk3.12 transition
<ochosi> so you can nag him then ;)
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> I've got a feeling that everything else is on standby until the numix sass conversion is done then?
<bluesabre> (or whatever that thing is called)
<bluesabre> :)
 * ochosi asks
<ochosi> hm, so x-d-s 14.04.5 fixed the black screen bug, right?
<bluesabre> probably
<bluesabre> it sets the setting anyway
<bluesabre> unless lls is not started correctly or something
<ochosi> i'm drafting the article you and i were supposed to write on the subject for the blog
<bluesabre> ah cool
<ochosi> http://xubuntu.org/?p=2656&preview=true
<ochosi> bluesabre: lemme know what you think, this is a very quick draft ^
<bluesabre> looks good
<bluesabre> Title could use some work
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> feel free to just edit
<ochosi> i mean all of it, then hit publish ;)
<bluesabre> ok, I'll be sure to get to that today
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> so the sass port will happen for after 14.10
<ochosi> our themes will get 3.12 support on the current code base
<bluesabre> ah, I see
<bluesabre> wow, that is really a huge undertaking then
<ochosi> yeah, basically a rewrite
<ochosi> not much fun
<ochosi> one of those things where you invest lots of time and effort, hoping that the code will become more maintainable
<bluesabre> yup, been there/done that ;)
<bluesabre> hm, the daily iso seems rather unstable atm
<bluesabre> in my vm, it almost starts, then I get a really wide black screen
<bluesabre> ooh progress
<ochosi> on what?
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/Evyg3dQ
<ochosi> hehe, looks flashy
<ochosi> meh, installer always crashes at the partitioning step :(
<ochosi> btw, i think i need to draw a different icon for the "plugged in" state in the power-manager's plugin
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> that lightning doesn't really cut it for me
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> this could be a new default wallpaper https://imgur.com/2JOX8VB
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> wee, finally managed to jump across that buggy partitioner
<ochosi> so it's installing
<pleia2> nice post
<pleia2> social mediaed it
<ochosi> thanks pleia2 
<ochosi> bluesabre: i just pushed two of the icons that seemed too large in your utopic appmenu screenshot
<ochosi> please check whether there
<ochosi> are more
<ochosi> (if possible)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll work on putting a list together as I find them
<ochosi> cool, thanks
<ochosi> so i fixed the keyboard-settings icon and jockey
<bluesabre> cool, I'll check those out a bit later.. heading out to see a movie
<bluesabre> bbl
<Unit193> bluesabre: Speaking of which, in your packages in Debian, why isn't PAPT maintainer and both of you uploaders?
<knome> i guess we could have a section on xubuntu-restricted-extras on the documentation
<ochosi> sounds like a good idea to me
#xubuntu-devel 2014-08-03
<elfy> ochosi: re the request to join -qa , the guy is not in -testers yet :) no mention of them on trackers, am rejecting
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> you can also send him a message
<ochosi> i usually do that with people who apply for xubuntu-art
<elfy> I did :)
<ochosi> ok cool
<elfy> you should see that in mail - you're an sdmin of the lp group too
<ochosi> yeah, i received an email, but didn't read it :>
<ochosi> bluesabre: whenever you're around, care to take a quick peek at a tabwin tweak in utopic? (i can send you the diff)
<elfy> ochosi: that's why I never get answers from you then :p
<ochosi> heh, well i just read the title of the mail and felt you've taken care of it
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> after all you're the team lead and i'm supposed to trust you with that
<knome> the automatic launchpad emails can be taunting in quantity and boring to read in quality :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> tbf - the same can be said for just about anything you care to mention :D
<knome> i guess.. but that happens a lot with LP emails
<knome> when i was the XPL, i filtered out a lot of stuff
<elfy> I don't doubt it :)
<ochosi> soo, xchat is +5 / -6 currently
<knome> dropping or keeping is winning?
<ochosi> keeping
<knome> you're a bit ambiguous...
<ochosi> not really, the vote is about the proposal to drop it
<ochosi> so if you'd remember the email, it'd be clear :)
<ochosi> anyway, lderan's voting was a bit ambiguous
<ochosi> so i asked to be sure
<knome> yeah, but you said "xchat", not "the xchat vote" :P
<knome> whatever
<ochosi> i guess he likes to be the tip on the scale
<ochosi> either way, the vote is pretty close to a tie
<ochosi> seems to be a controversial issue
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm listed as a maintainer for it, not sure why svn hates me
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll check it out now
<bluesabre> didn't feel well last night when I got home, so I went to bed
<ochosi> it's a rather subtle change, so i'm partly wondering how it'll come across on a different screen
<ochosi> oh, sorry to hear
<ochosi> bad nachos?
<bluesabre> ha
<ochosi> bluesabre: diff for greybird: http://dpaste.com/0W60Q68
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> ok, looks good
<bluesabre> took forever to spot the change
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, i know it's rather subtle
<elfy> don't expect me to see it then ;)
<ochosi> well actually it adds a little more contrast to the currently selected window
<ochosi> if anything, it should help you to see *that* better ;)
<elfy> you mean the alt+tab switchy thing? 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> mine has name in the 'selected' one - seems blunt enough for me :)
<ochosi> yeah, i know, took me a while to come up with that actually
<elfy> that's good - elfy approves of that one :)
<elfy> anything subtle I am likely to miss unless someone shows me :D
<bluesabre> that's how we can sneak new features past elfy
<bluesabre> introduce them a bit at a time
<elfy> yep - my kids do it all the time ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> btw, i have another suggestion
<ochosi> apptitle bold, appdescription normal font
<bluesabre> apptitle = bottom?
<ochosi> nah
<ochosi> like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-08-03-122819.php
<ochosi> having both bold looks.... bad :)
<bluesabre> looks good to me
<elfy> and me ... 
<elfy> I think :p
<bluesabre> also, you clearly do not use application menus
<elfy> anyway - have a good day - I'm off to see what Sunday does to me this week 
<ochosi> hf elfy 
<ochosi> ttyl
<bluesabre> seeya elfy
<ochosi> application menus?
<ochosi> you mean like whisker?
<bluesabre> plank
<bluesabre> has so many icons
<bluesabre> O.O
<ochosi> yeah, but my screen is sooo wide :)
<elfy> a cornucopia of icons that is bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> well it helps me to keep a focus on which icons need improvement ;)
<bluesabre> fair enough
<bluesabre> but in that case, you should set your plank to 96px
<ochosi> btw, have any of you tried the list mode of alt-tab?
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> not recently
<ochosi> tweaks -> cycle through windows in a list
<ochosi> the iconsize is currently defined in the theme
<ochosi> so in greybird it's 16
<ochosi> with the patch for bold apptitle, that's all bold too now
<bluesabre> 16 = too small
 * bluesabre experiments
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-08-03-123305.php
<bluesabre> that looks ok to me
<ochosi> bluesabre: http://dpaste.com/238CTFH
<bluesabre> much easier to read
<ochosi> ok cool, i'll go ahead and push that then
<ochosi> done
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: got svn-inject to work
<ochosi> oddly, i can't pin chrome to plank
<ochosi> (and it is such an incredible cpu hogger)
<bluesabre> fix for that
<ochosi> other than not using chrome you mean? :)
<bluesabre> thats one
<bluesabre> copy the launcher to ~/.local/share/applications and 
<bluesabre> $ diff /usr/share/applications/google-chrome.desktop ~/.local/share/applications/google-chrome.desktop 
<bluesabre> 112a113
<bluesabre> > StartupWMClass=Google-chrome-stable
<ochosi> hmm, i see
<ochosi> well that's not very nice of chrome
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> and if you don't change it locally, it gets overwritten on update
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, shimmer daily ppa hasn't built for trusty in a while, what's up with that?
<ochosi> i mean the shimmer-themes package
<ochosi> the icon theme has built fine
<bluesabre> satya disabled it since he was starting gtk 3.12 builds
<bluesabre> s/builds/commits
<bluesabre> I can reenable it for trusty just as easily
<ochosi> right, well as soon as he really starts with the gtk3.12 port, we can do that .)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> for now it'd be nice to get the theme updates
<bluesabre> enabling now
<ochosi> i'll quickly inform him
<bluesabre> he can re-disable when he sees fit :)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> so this is how the soundmenu by matias looks now: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/733715/3773756/e4d51188-1916-11e4-9ee9-8c65220b294f.png
<ochosi> lotsa buttons in the panel :)
<ochosi> or in fact: lotsa buttons in the panel :s
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> ew
<bluesabre> I feel like the old screenshot he had showed while we were developing was very reminiscent of the sound indicator or gnome extension
<ochosi> yeah, we can suggest a redesign
<ochosi> not sure how much luck we'll have with that
<satya> ochosi, hola!
<ochosi> bluesabre showed me a screenshot of the dialog buttons not being connected
<ochosi> that is one of the issues
<ochosi> and i guess tabs are the other issue
<bluesabre> and you mentioned menu separators?
<ochosi> although i dunno, bluesabre do you have your utopic box handy?
<ochosi> yeah, those looked too black
<satya> yeah, the dialog buttons thing is a mystery for me right now
<bluesabre> just updated my vm, restarting it now
<satya> I expect to fic it in the SASS port
<ochosi> they look really crappy though atm
<satya> I cannot gurrantee it will be fixed in this release
<ochosi> so we should try to at least find a workaround for 14.10
<satya> yeah, they do
<ochosi> maybe make them look disconnected, separate buttons?
<ochosi> at least if we can't remove the padding between them
<satya> I tried using gtkparasite, but doesn't help
<satya> I mean it behaves weird
<satya> sometimes it is connected, sometimes not
<ochosi> :/
<satya> yeah, I have already tried a lot to fix it
<ochosi> i thought it was just a consistent problem
<satya> I'll try to complete the SASS port soon. when is the UI freeze
<bluesabre> 9/11
<satya> so I have a month
<bluesabre> Do you think we can have these ready a week in advance (9/4)?
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be ideal
<satya> I'll try, but I cannot gurrantee
<satya> you know, I get tired with office work and all
<ochosi> i presume it's not a lot of work to just fix the tabs in utopic
<ochosi> yeah, sure, don't worry
<ochosi> i mean we can do the sass port for 15.04 too
<satya> yup. so, for now, ignore the dialog box buttons
<satya> what other bug is there?
<satya> tabs, right?
<ochosi> i guess, bluesabre ^ ?
<ochosi> the menu separators also looked odd
<ochosi> at least in greybird
<ochosi> i only had a chance to look at utopic yesterday very briefly, but i'll take another look tomorrow @office
<satya> hmm... screenshot?
<satya> the menu separators look fine here!
<ochosi> i can only show you the screenshot tomorrow :/
<ochosi> you can show me your screen though
<ochosi> (i looked at abiword, but i assume that they use standard gtk3 menus)
<bluesabre> abiword does look bad
<bluesabre> they're fine everywhere else
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> ok
<satya> hmm...
 * ochosi dislikes abiword
<satya> I'll install abiwords tomorrow and have a look
<ochosi> yeah, don't waste too much time on it though, it has a few theming oddities that are unsolveable
<ochosi> so the menus might be their fault too
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> bluesabre: how do the tabs look?
<ochosi> satya: i guess if it's only the tabs, there's no rush with the sass port ;)
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/xo8ltwC
<bluesabre> (also, parole libxfce4ui fixed itself, it seems)
<satya> so, we need to redesign tabs
<satya> brb in a min
<satya> search for adwaita tabs
<satya> and have a look at their design
<ochosi> satya: actually what bluesabre posted looks ok
<ochosi> so no need to redesign anything if you ask me
<ochosi> i saw how they look in adwaita (blue stripe at the bottom for active tab)
<bluesabre> ochosi: numix, for comparison https://imgur.com/4ylFVnj
<ochosi> yeah, that's close to adwaita
<ochosi> but i'm not sure we have to go there
<ochosi> with greybird that is
<ochosi> don't think there's a reasonable way to reproduce this look with gtk2
<ochosi> (other than using tons of pixmaps probably)
<bluesabre> I think Moka got their gtk2 tabs to look like that
<ochosi> they did?
<ochosi> hm, snwh isn't around
<ochosi> but i could ask him i gues
<ochosi> s
<bluesabre> I think i remember seeing them when testing a few weeks ago
<ochosi> i'm not sure though i even like that look 1005
<ochosi> 100%
<ochosi> i think ambiance had an interesting look for tabs in gtk3, at least in 14.04
<satya> we don't need to have the blue highlight
<satya> can you gimme a screenie of ambiance?
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-08-03-150652.php
<ochosi> but they don't have a matching style for gtk2
<ochosi> so that's also a bit sucky
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/0B8P3OD
<satya> ochosi, Gnome completely rewrote the tabs
<bluesabre> Orchis ^
<satya> we can always have a look at the code and see what snwh did
<bluesabre> doesn't quite match their gtk3
<satya> yeah, gtk2 is very limited
<ochosi> yeah, but in xubuntu most of what we have is gtk2
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/2rwXipU
<ochosi> frankly, i don't mind the current look of greybird's tabs
<satya> but the thing is, gtk redesigned and rewrote their tabs
<satya> the issue with the current look is, it has a border at the top
<ochosi> sure, but it looks ok (which is the main thing that matters to me atm)
<ochosi> yeah, maybe we can make that border transparent
<ochosi> then it'd be like before
<satya> and with apps which have a toolbar above the tabs, there will be two borders
<ochosi> so i guess that tab bar that spans the whole width is a separate widget that we can simply set to not have a border
<satya> that border is from GtkBox widget
<satya> and it's the parent of GtkNotebook
<ochosi> that's also quite a new gtk3 feat then that boxes can have borders
<ochosi> that used to be impossible (and one of the reasons for frames i think)
<satya> no, wait
<bluesabre> gedit https://imgur.com/kB8OZps
<ochosi> that looks ok
<ochosi> there might be a 2px line now, but that's really just a minor nuisance i'd say
<bluesabre> v 3.10.4, might be different with actual 3.12
<satya> bluesabre, that's a old version of gedit
<bluesabre> yup
<satya> not gtk3.12
<ochosi> well depends on whatever they decide to ship in 14.10
<bluesabre> ubuntu picks and chooses :)
 * bluesabre tries to get latest
<ochosi> yeah, and ubuntu-gnome has ppas :>
<satya> the new gnome apps don't look good with current design IMO
<satya> so, I would suggest to go with gnome's new tabs design, and change what we don't like
<ochosi> i presume the tabs design is mostly about the code, right?
<ochosi> i mean we can still draw borders for the active notebook tab
<satya> which code?
<ochosi> so the looks can remain mostly what they are
 * satya is copying tabs code from numix
<ochosi> or maybe i don't get what the difference really is (apart from the box that holds all tabs and the visual redesign of adwaita to only use those colored stripes for active tabs)
<satya> the tabs now span the full width
<ochosi> ah right
<satya> so, the current design looks really ugly for those
<ochosi> could you show me how greybird looks with those?
<ochosi> iirc in gtk2 there is no way to really have different looks for active/inactive tabs (apart from the colors)
<satya> wait
 * ochosi waits
 * bluesabre breaks vm
<satya> http://imgur.com/DTiksXk
<ochosi> this is with the current code?
<satya> no, with the new one
<ochosi> and how does it look with the current code?
<bluesabre> screenshot coming
<satya> wait
<satya> ok
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/KxuleHi.png
<ochosi> apart from the shadow around the close button, that's actually not really too bad
<ochosi> so let's just fix that border around the close button and be done with it
<satya> still, doesn't fit with the whole minimal design
<satya> as you wish @ochosi
<ochosi> i know, it looks like gtk2 and all, but remember, the main target desktop of greybird is xubuntu atm
<satya> ok
<ochosi> yeah, i agree with you there
<ochosi> i just don't wanna end up with a visually highly inconsistent desktop for our users
<ochosi> when xfce is ported to gtk3, we can go crazy cause gtk2 won't matter that much anymore...
<bluesabre> gtk4 will be out then
<ochosi> hehe, that's likely
<ochosi> satya: for numix and orion it's up to you, but if orion isn't updated in general, even there i'd go with the minimal solution
<ochosi> unless you want it to be used in more gnomey contexts
<ochosi> (i'm mostly concerned that the default look, in our case greybird, is kinda consistent, if people switch themes, that's up to them then)
<satya> ochosi, ok
<satya> greybird is pushed
<ochosi> would be awesome if we could fix the close button in a backward compatible way
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna test satya's push?
<bluesabre> sure
<satya> it shouldn't affect backward compatibility I guess
<ochosi> yeah, looks fine in 14.04 / gtk3.10
<ochosi> just a tiny border on hover
<ochosi> but nothing drastic
<bluesabre> gedit 3.12 looks good
<bluesabre> parole looks fine (no difference there)
<satya> ochosi, yeah, I think the tiny border should be there on hover
<satya> I'll push some tweaks to popover
<satya> be here to test
<bluesabre> yeesh, gedit's menu is bad with everything in a single popup
<bluesabre> (in general, not greybird)
<satya> yeah, I agree
<ochosi> what's the problem with it?
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/hh66lGO
<ochosi> satya: thanks for the notebook fixes then, it's also a nice benefit having the theme work with gtk3.8->gtk3.12 practically
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh dear...
<ochosi> that's a good example of those singular menus *not* working well
<ochosi> the title color of the headerbar window title seems a bit too pronounced btw
<ochosi> but since we don't even have those in ubuntu normally, i don't worry about that too much for the moment
 * satya will tweak that
<ochosi> so i guess we can releases for the themes today and then upload them to utopic
<ochosi> bluesabre: now that you've split the themes into separate packages, should all themes still have releases at once?
<bluesabre> they're all built from the same source package
<ochosi> thanks satya! (actually it's both the title and its shadow that are too pronounced)
<bluesabre> so they will all carry the same debian version number
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> so better all at once thenn
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> gotta cook some dinner, bbabl
<bluesabre> seeya
 * bluesabre has breakfast
<satya> dudes, who will test?
<satya> ochosi, the title and shadow are same as the greybird window decoration
<satya> I reduced the shadow a bit
<satya> but the titlebar text color is still the same
<bluesabre> I'll check it out
<bluesabre> "has breakfast" means "eats cereal in front of computer"
<bluesabre> so, what changed?
<satya> changing the popover to match the menu
<satya> will push in a min
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/7rH9a20
<bluesabre> I think that might be what ochosi was referring to
<satya> bluesabre, hmm... will check
<satya> pushed the popover
<satya> also check the menu separator
<satya> brb
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> abiword separator is the same
<bluesabre> popover..?  which app?
<satya> bluesabre, :(
<satya> you can test popover in the gtk3-demo package
<satya> bluesabre, can you give me screenshots of the greybird focused and non-focused window in xfce?
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> parole preferences is the focused one https://i.imgur.com/BdfA8Bz.png
<satya> thanks
<bluesabre> popover is grey
<bluesabre> also, thanks for this tool... I think I'll use it to bug you and ochosi more
<bluesabre> :D
<satya> bluesabre, which tool ?
<bluesabre> gtk3-demo
<satya> :D
<satya> bluesabre, pushed fixes to all themes
<satya> just need to fix the titlebar color in greybird and we are good to go
<bluesabre> cool, thanks Satya!
<satya> welcome :D\
<satya> bluesabre, ochosi, everything pushed. we're ready to go
<bluesabre> excellent.  We'll bug you again when we need something else ;)
<bluesabre> Thanks a lot!
<satya> sure :D
<knome> well, albatross needs a gtk3-remake ;)
<bluesabre> I think we're dropping that one for 14.10
<knome> noooo
<knome> you soulless monsters
<bluesabre> I'll prepare the package in such a way that it's not pulled for new installs, but is carried with an upgrade
<bluesabre> since I think I know how, now :)
<knome> heh
<satya164> btw ochosi, I think the unfocused title color is too light
<ochosi> knome: i've actually mentioned that a few times in this channel already
<ochosi> even pinged you once about it :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess i'll do releases of the themes tonight then
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> have to ask satya whether a point release for numix is ok too
<ochosi> oh, and if you look at the appmenu again and notice borked icons, that'd be great, cause then i'd fix those prior to the release
<ochosi> i'd also push updates to the icons tonight then
<bluesabre> ok, currently working on catfish, but will try to also do that
<ochosi> no rush to do that *tonight* ;)
<ochosi> but i wanna get the themes ready, so i can tick off one of the few blueprint workitems i got going ;)
<knome> ochosi, i know, and i've replied to you, but apparently you don't read my replies either :)
<ochosi> heh, dunno
<ochosi> i really don't remember seeing a reply
<ochosi> bluesabre: how hard would it be to get the greeter-settings app into the archive?
<bluesabre> It's a new app, so we have to create the package, and have two MOTU approve it
<ochosi> would going through debian be easier/better?
<bluesabre> yes and no
<bluesabre> ITP can take a while
<bluesabre> and debian sync freeze in is in 5 days
<bluesabre> we can try to do both though
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> just noticed that we have that on our roadmap
<ochosi> i mean it's not critical, we can always postpone it
<bluesabre> (you put it there)
<bluesabre> yeah, let's shoot for it
<ochosi> but maybe we have more things to do next cycle
<ochosi> hehe, i know i put it there :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, the corresponding trello card is assigned to you ;)
<ochosi> folks, as 14.04.1 has been released already, shouldn't we remove some of this from trello?
<ochosi> we could keep a 14.04 SRU ToDo or so
<ochosi> but the 14.04.1 Done cards are all somewhat irrelevant now
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> remove? what about keeping it for archival reasons?
<ochosi> yeah, we can "archive this list"
<ochosi> maybe we should do the same thing with the note
<ochosi> s
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<ochosi> just so you know, i'll do a release of the icons soonish
<ochosi> well, at least i'll sync them to launchpad so we can do a release of xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> but i guess i'll also do a release on github, to keep those things a bit more in sync
<ochosi> bluesabre: just tagged greybird https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases
<bluesabre> woot!
<sergio-br2> hey
<ochosi> also, Orion 1.5
<ochosi> and Bluebird 1.2.
<ochosi> satya will take care of Numix (after a few tweaks, he said)
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> asked him to ping you once he's done
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, i talked matias up about the soundmenu design
<ochosi> he might do it as a build option
<bluesabre> kicking butt today
<knome> bluesabre, does it hurt already?
<ochosi> knome: i presume he's not kicking his own butt (hard to imagine how that would physically work anyway)
<bluesabre> it can be done
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> yep, doable.
<knome> it's not too nice
<ochosi> you're all contortionists
 * ochosi shakes his head and walks away
<knome> haha
<knome> well, you should see how my finger bends...
<ochosi> :]
<knome> with some warming up, i can bend my left index finger 180 degrees so that there is very little space between the finger and the back of the hand..
<bluesabre> gross
<knome> :)
 * bluesabre shakes his head and walks away
<knome> haha :)
<knome> if i bend my fingers one-handed (without pressing them), they bend ~90Â° back
<knome> well, the tips face 90Â° ;)
<bluesabre> dang
<knome> http://botherer.org/2005/08/14/i-have-a-syndrome/
<knome> something like that..
<knome> i never knew it was a diagnosed syndrome
<bluesabre> >.<
<knome> "First, we know that hypermobility in itself is strongly inherited. This is called a âdominantâ pattern of inheritance."
<knome> right, so that's where it's coming, i heard my grandfather was able to do that as well
 * knome decides not to read further but live happily
<knome> i read far enough to understand it's probably just okay.
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: refreshed our icon theme in xubuntu-artwork btw
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> so i guess for xubuntu-artwork we can do a release anytime
 * bluesabre has some packaging to do today
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> well, whenever you have time, feel free to tag the release, the changelog is up to date
<bluesabre> you can go ahead and tag it, I'll worry about putting it into xubuntu ;)
<ochosi> oh, i'm actually running out now, i can do it when i'm back
<ochosi> bbiab
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> taking a break, bbabl
<ochosi> bluesabre: i set up a new trunk for 14.10 now, actually Unit193 already tagged the release (i thought you should keep unreleased until someone actually uploads it, but anyway), not sure why he set the importance to medium. if that's a problem, i can change it. otherwise it's good to go
<Unit193> ochosi: Right, normal to do so yeah.  Medium is default, I just used what's normal.
<ochosi> Unit193: right, i don't care much. i was just sticking to the tradition of "low"
<pleia2> Community Council check-in is on Thursday at 1700 utc, anyone able to go? (I'll be on an airplane again)
<Unit193> As usual, I'll be unable to attend as well.
<pleia2> oh, I have a team meeting to schedule
 * pleia2 does july report
<skellat> pleia2: Unless I am running errands, I may be available Thursday
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-27
<Noskcaj> If someone has the time to run me through some of iconview in glade that would be great
<ochosi> Noskcaj: what info/hints are you looking for exactly?
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> I'll return to my regularly scheduled usefulness tonight
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> hey sean
<knome> you ought to look at the new features of the tracker
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> hope you enjoyed your holidays
<ochosi> knome, pleia2 (or anyone else in -team with proofreading skills): i just finished a brief artwork update on our LO integration work for 15.10 on x.org, would be great if you could review before i publish! thanks in advance
<ochosi> http://xubuntu.org/?p=3269&preview=true
<astraljava> I've been told I'm one of the nastiest nitpickers people have ever met, and they run their texts by me because of it. I could have a look in a few hours when I get home.
<knome> ochosi, Xubuntuâs default âelementary-xfceâ. -> Xubuntu's default icon theme elementary-xfce
<ochosi> knome: sure, feel free to change that
<knome> ochosi, and i guess generally try to be consistent with quotes or no quotes on theme names
<knome> ochosi, then release the lock
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> oops :)
<astraljava> Ahh... knome is on it, so then I don't need to. :D
 * ochosi releases lock
 * knome did edits, feel free to double-check
<knome> i changed the whole LO upstream sentence
<knome> ochosi, what about something on how people can help?
<knome> or who to contact
<ochosi> yeah, could do
<knome> not that i expect wonders, but still
<knome> who knows
<knome> also ping ping pleia2: we would likely prefer to have this on the news :)
<knome> ochosi, we haven't used tags for projects before, do you want to start doing that now?
<knome> ochosi, see the sidebar for the tags we have now
<ochosi> yeah, dunno, i just felt i could add some, haven't put too much thought into the tags yet tbh
<knome> ok
<ochosi> i guess 15.10 is an ok tag
<ochosi> not sure about the others
<knome> i left Artwork
<ochosi> alright
<knome> we have tags like Marketing and QA
<knome> so it might be ok to tag posts with "interest groups"
<ochosi> right
<knome> or in other words, subteams
<knome> another option (that requires code change) is to create new taxonomies
<knome> "release" and "team"
<knome> then start tagging like mad men
<knome> (pun intended)
<knome> but to make it clear, the code change is pretty trivial
<knome> but *shrug*
<ochosi> yeah
 * ochosi shrugs too
<ochosi> ok, added a brief contribute-section
<knome> i'm somwhat dissatisfied with this now
<ochosi> with what?
<knome> the tag issue
<ochosi> oh
<knome> maybe i'll add at least the releases taxonomy
<knome> with some extra features
<knome> like release and EOL date fields
 * ochosi poked the bear
<knome> could then even use that to create the list for supported releases on "Help & Support"
<knome> nah, i've been thinking this for a long time
<knome> +about
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> in that case i guess it's a good thing i tagged without thinking :D
<knome> bah
<knome> :P
<knome> ok, got to pick up some groceries, bbl
<ochosi> ttyl
<knome> ochosi, poke?
<pleia2> today is trying to kill me, but I can probably find time tomorrow or tonight to look if still needed
<knome> look at what?
<knome> the article?
<knome> i did that already, don't worry too much about that
<pleia2> ok
<knome> pleia2, more goodness incoming: http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/release/12-04/
<pleia2> reminds me, should remove utopic from docs.x.o
<knome> basically moving releases from tags to a "release" taxonomy
<knome> with custom fields
<knome> we can even build the "supported releases" list with this information
<pleia2> tagging confounds me, good work
<knome> so now we can use the tags for something else
<knome> like
<knome> this is what i do on my blog:
<knome> all application names that are mentioned in the article -> tag
<knome> all themes that are covered in the article -> tag
<knome> also app names "Capitalized", themes "uncapitalized"
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/?s=
<knome> ^ makes most sense to me
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> but we can do whatever we want
<knome> mixing in releases there was the bad idea
<knome> but since we didn't have this custom taxonomy...
<ochosi> evening all
 * ochosi pokes knome back
<knome> ochosi, basically the url i posted to pleia
<knome> +2
<ochosi> pleia2: yeah, dont worry, just wanted another set of eyes
<ochosi> knome: nice! i like it
<knome> also see sidebar
<knome> widget just arrived
<ochosi> you mean the "object(stdClass)#296 (9) { ["term_id"]=> string(2) "25" ["name"]=> ..."
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> :)
<knome> refrehs :P
<knome> refresh too
<ochosi> nice
<knome> so we can dump in the release codename, release and eol dates, and of course, a description
<ochosi> sometimes i'm wondering whether we should use the per-release animal logos more
<knome> so we can do a quick overview of the release if we want
<ochosi> sounds lovely
<knome> ..and then have a list of all articles linked to that release
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> so basically collecting all info of a single release in one (dynamic) place would be great
<ochosi> incl links to docs for that release etc
<knome> that's pretty much what i'm doing
<knome> right...
<knome> that's a different question, but yeah, it's doable
<ochosi> yeah, i know, that could be the next step
<ochosi> but let's go with the tagging mechanism you're working on there
<knome> heh
<ochosi> ;))
<knome> well, as long as we name the release slugs in a standard way, we can resolve the docs link from there
<knome> automatically, that is
<knome> eg. the slug '15-04' can be easily converted to 'http://docs.xubuntu.org/1504/'
<knome> do i need to tell you how to do that? (:
<ochosi> what me? do i need to resolve the links now?
<knome> hah.
 * knome slaps ochosi 
<ochosi> ouch
 * ochosi bleeds when people stab him
 * ochosi feels pain when knome slaps him
<knome> well good, that's the goal :P
<knome> better example for archives http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/release/14-04/
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> yeah, that really makes sense to group our articles by release
<knome> definitely
<knome> we're doing that already
<knome> just with tags
<ochosi> (i mean the release-tagged ones at least)
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/tag/14-04/
<knome> but that isn't even close
<knome> http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/release/14-04/
<knome> updated that with a description from wikipedia
<knome> >:)
<ochosi> :D
<knome> i wonder if it would be better if the description was first
<knome> opinion?
<knome> maybe it was better the other way
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> well
<ochosi> hmm
<knome> heh
<ochosi> to some extent both make sense
<knome> now this feels too top-heavy
<knome> or bottom
<ochosi> but the EOL is really important for releases
<knome> depending how you look at it
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> one thing i've been pondering is how to show the eol status
<knome> eg. if it's EOL, should the date be in red?
<knome> or appended with some notice?
<knome> or both?
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> yeah to what?
<ochosi> definitely should be highlighted
<knome> stupid
<knome> :P
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> btw, any more comments on the LO article or can i pubish as is?
<knome> pubish?
<knome> HUH.
<knome> PLEASE
<ochosi> or publish
<knome> no pubes on the website
<ochosi> you decide
 * knome checks quickly
<ochosi> after all, you're the fancy web lead
<knome> oh, i'm now fancy?
<ochosi> the web lead position is
<ochosi> so you holding that position makes you fancy too, i guess
<knome> i'm so flattered now, simon.
<knome> anyway, i fixed a few pubish errors
<ochosi> why am i not surprised?
<knome> you're good to go now
<ochosi> good good, i'm a go-er, ya know ;)
<knome> yeah i do
<knome> there's no doubt about it - your partner is pregnant
<knome> heh @ wikipedia:
<knome> There will also be a new version of Xubuntu "Core" starting from Xubuntu 15.10. Developers have speculated that it will fit in regular CDs.[citation needed]
<knome> yeah...
<knome> who has "speculated" with that?
<knome> CONFESS!
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> gotta love wikipedia
<knome> now somebody will surely make a mention there that the developers do not care for their users because they only joke about their wikipedia edits
<knome> especially that fancy web lead
<ochosi> definitely
<ochosi> and it's teh truth!
<knome> citation: Pasi Lallinaho, Xubuntu Web Lead
<knome> ^ obviously fake, we have no "Web Lead"
<ochosi> who's that pasi guy?
<knome> don't know
<knome> but i've heard he's damn fancy
<knome> and a go-er
<knome> fwiw
<ochosi> indeed, wears strange clothes, talks "the fancy talk" he himself invented and constantly references the pythons and m.a.numminen
<knome> and sports a minimalist designer wallet, i've heard
<knome> ochosi, i just checked our status tracker and saw you haven't scheduled our next meeting
<knome> <:
<ochosi> haha, yeah, had to publish that article first ;)
<ochosi> but will do that now
<knome> hard work, that
 * ochosi schedules time for scheduling the next meeting
<knome> pubishing :P
<ochosi> yeah, i hear they build houses just for that!
<knome> hah
<knome> anyway
<knome> something else i need to figure out
<knome> is how to separate articles on the blog better
<knome> it looks clunky now
<knome> the problem is
<knome> i've never really sorted that problem
<knome> except by only showing one article at a time
<knome> maybe it just needs more space in between
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> right now there's so little space in between
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> i mean basically almost no visible separation at all
<knome> i have a mixed group of updates for the theme incoming
<knome> some from way back
<knome> so, meh
<knome> need to pull the strings together
<knome> maybe i need to do the other things first
<knome> then the release stuff
<knome> that's fortunately still relatively easily kept separate
<ochosi> right, take your time
<ochosi> i'll meanwhile figure out a good meeting time
<knome> i will, i just hate this process
<ochosi> brb
<knome> lol
<knome> have fun scheduling
<knome> huh, ok, worst bunch of work done and stuff in the repository
<bluesabre> good evening al
<bluesabre> l
<bluesabre> and al and all
<ochosi> hey al!
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> nice of you to stop by
<bluesabre> heya ochosi
<ochosi> looking forward to the burndown looking more optimistic after tonight ;D
<bluesabre> or tomorrow night
<bluesabre> going to work on it tonight though
<bluesabre> but not feeling too great
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> sorry to hear
<ochosi> first day at work after holidays is rarely fun though
<bluesabre> a few days out, and plenty to do when I get back :)
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> ochosi, i think the burndown chart looks much better than a few days ago
<knome> (pun intended and obvious)
<bluesabre> xstatus is looking quite good
<bluesabre> so does the burndown burn itself down as you complete tasks improving the actual burndown chart? :D
<ochosi> knome: hehe, indeed
<pleia2> looks like only G+ updated so far with new article?
<pleia2> I'll do fb and twitter
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> :)
<pleia2> knome: or you can do twitter if you want
 * pleia2 writes words for fb
<knome> can do that
<knome> tweeted
<pleia2> ty
<krytarik> slickymaster, knome: This fixes all the current targets of the docs: http://paste.openstack.org/show/tMcOyxWCYEhyXy5oULhz/
<knome> krytarik, erm, you sure that's done against the latest docs branch?
<krytarik> Yep.
<knome> oh pop
<knome> *poop
<knome> krytarik, please rediff
<knome> krytarik, i just pushed your changes from last time
<krytarik> Meh.
<knome> well, you aren't willing to do MP's, so you'd better give us the diff in some other way we fancy it.
<krytarik> knome: Thought you hadn't decided on that one yet though, and since it was all in a bunch...
<knome> no, i just forgot to push it basically
<krytarik> Alright then.
<krytarik> Give me a min.
<knome> MPs are nice because there's history and real commit log
<knome> sure, i'm watching a dvd...
<krytarik> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-28
<krytarik> "../scripts/pdf-create.sh C" missing there is not my fault though. :P
<knome> that happens, just drop in the new diff and i'll fix
<krytarik> Yeah.
<krytarik> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/d0JFmwElI0kc1C4zpRIf/
<knome> sigh
<knome> :)
<krytarik> lol
<knome> no VPATH eh :P
<krytarik> Yeah, not needed anymore now.
<knome> done and pushed, can you double-check my copying didn't suck this time?
<krytarik> Yeah. LOL
<krytarik> knome: Well, only slightly :P -
<krytarik> -	# exclude archive, backup, and bzr files
<krytarik> +	# exclude archive, VCS, and backups
<knome> hah
<krytarik> You could run 'patch' against it though, you know?
<knome> i'm old fashioned.
<knome> pushed.
<krytarik> Oh gosh, and 'pdf-create.sh' is not executable. :P
<knome> oh, oh
<knome> :P
<knome> pushed
<knome> this is why we'd be so much better off with MPs.
<knome> so please, as you can see, it's likely less work to do one than play this game :P
<krytarik> Well, I'd have not so much of a problem with direct commits, but MPs are really kind of cumbersome. :P
<knome> yeah, the "problem" is that the team that has push rights there isn't maintained by us
<knome> i'll go through the approval process with you if you wish, so you can push directly
<knome> krytarik, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-May/018936.html
<knome> krytarik, basically, you need to send a mail like that
<krytarik> Uff.
<knome> krytarik, then me, pleia2, slickymaster and jjfrv8 (or a subset of that) need to approve.
<knome> then everybody says "ok" and somebody will grant you the membership
<knome> this is far easier than ubuntu membership or anything
<krytarik> I'll think about it. :)
<knome> ping me if you decide to (not) do it, so i can be alerted for the mail
<knome> or if you need help writing the mail.
<krytarik> Ok.
<krytarik> And the formatting of 'pdf-create.sh' went kind of messy on transfer, but oh well. :P
<krytarik> At least this isn't Python... LOL
<knome> you could change that yourself if you had the membership ;)
<knome> i don't touch python.
<knome> even in merges
<krytarik> It's really picky at that. :P
<knome> i know
<krytarik> Only had that yesterday.
<knome> and i don't understand enough of it to merge anything
<jcjordyn120> what's the current topic
<knome> documentation makefiles
<knome> and branch merging
<jcjordyn120> okay thanks knome 
<knome> ...though it seemed to end there
<krytarik> knome: Here, for easy copy & pasting, if you wish :P - http://paste.openstack.org/show/MIH5ZRfzSSIMqiRNqiFs/
<knome> thanks
<knome> done
<krytarik> That also makes the generated HTML source code look better, that is.
<knome> ok
<krytarik> Thanks.
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 4 updates, showing the latest 3
<knome> silly bot
<knome> didn't catch the last commit
<krytarik> Slooow. :D
<krytarik> Checked too, btw.
<knome> :)
<jcjordyn120> right now i am working on a session manager
<bluesabre> micahg: have you had a chance to look at the packageset or shimmer-themes package?  the package should be okay to upload, no architecture changes there
<bluesabre> and if you don't have any objections, I can go ahead and upload the next xubuntu-artwork with the libreoffice theme
<bluesabre> with today's blog post, seems reasonable to move that one along :)
<micahg> I must have missed the blog post
<micahg> ah
<micahg> bluesabre: go ahead an upload, it'll need to pass through NEW anyways
<micahg> oh, and shimmer-themes is ready, I just need to push the button
<micahg> packageset still needs digging, I can sponsor until I can have a look
<ochosi> pleia2: yeah, i only have access to our G+ account, hence i only socialmedia'd it there
<ochosi> pleia2: thanks for taking care of the rest!
<ochosi> micahg: and thanks for the upload! we really need to get this back into our packageset asap though
<ochosi> bluesabre: was considering to wait with the blog post until -artwork landed in 15.10 repos but this way around is ok too :)
<micahg> ochosi: yes, well, kubuntu and ubuntu "take ownership" of things...I need to dig a bit to find a good solution
<ochosi> anyway, off for the day to do some RL work, hf everyone!
<ochosi> micahg: right, but this package isnt used by abyone else, is it?
<micahg> it's a dependency of a package in the kubuntu packageset, hence the grabbing
<ochosi> or maybe i havent understood the problem properly yet
<ochosi> woot?
<ochosi> (sry for the typos, silly phone)
<ochosi> which package?
<micahg> breeze recommends orion-gtk-theme
<ochosi> meh, thats not even maintained anymore (orion)
<micahg> the packagesets are by source, one binary can cause the whole thing
<ochosi> the only reason we havent dropped orion from shimmer-themes yet is that xfce is still gtk2 so most things are still usable
<ochosi> (that, and laziness i guess)
<micahg> I'll get it sorted soon enough, though, in the mean time, I can sponsor, I'm guessing there won't be too many uploads in the next week or two of the themes
<ochosi> yeah, prolly not, although i have some gtk3.16 fixes for greybird in git and hoe numix will finally get fixed too
<ochosi> if you wanna add that as a workitem for yourself on the devel blueprint, that'd be great though, so we dont forget
<ochosi> and then i'll know when its sorted too ;)
<ochosi> anyway, g2g now. ttyl micahg and thanks again!
<micahg> done
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you a a preference for iconview vs gtkbutton for the sgt-puzzles-launcher? revisions 4 and 2 respectively on my branch
<Noskcaj> i can't find any info on how to connect the clicked signals properly for iconview (i hoped to get the info of which thing is clicked)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: no particular preference, but an IconView would let it be sorted or searched (sorting particularly handy for translations).  The old menulibre used a click and go iconview https://launchpad.net/menulibre/+milestone/13.04.17
<bluesabre> looks like the signal may be "item-activated"
<bluesabre> micahg: thanks, uploaded xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> micahg: ooh, and thanks for the upload!
<bluesabre> xubuntu-artwork is now in NEW
<krytarik> knome: Also, since we seem to be working together rather nicely these days, I should mention that I noticed earlier that the current Isolinux boot menu image is unnecessarily pixelated (I could provide a proper replacement). :)
<knome> krytarik, yes please :)
<krytarik> Heh. :P
<jcjordyn120> can we port the shimmer theme set to qt :
<krytarik> knome: There you go: http://www.cellrabta.pk/xubuntu/splash.pcx
<dkessel> Looks like we might be able to run the ubiquity autopilot image tests locally: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/autopilot/README.md
<dkessel> I'll try it as soon as I can
<pleia2> cool
<knome> krytarik, remind me in which package we need to push that to
<knome> krytarik, /branch
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> dkessel: it does run :)
<dkessel> flocculant: yeah, testing it too just now. seems to download packages though... which is strange because it should test the ISO. guess i got to read the README fully first before i complain though ;)
<flocculant> it fails too - not unexpected given that jenkins has reported these as fails forever seemingly 
<dkessel> yeah, it fails. we should see if there is an ubiquity bug for that though.
<flocculant> not sure what the gain is here though
<krytarik> knome: I didn't find a package for this one earlier though - hence my loop mounting of the ISO. :P
<flocculant> dkessel: by the time someone has run this it's likely that they'd have found any issues elsewhere (talking Xubuntu here) 
<flocculant> it's certainly quicker to boot the image in vbox or something 
<dkessel> flocculant: the gain is the possibility of running these tests automatically on each new image and getting failure reports if anything breaks, instead of having to manually download images and running the test steps
<flocculant> I understand that 
<flocculant> just not sure that we gain anything tbh
<flocculant> this 'fail' doesn't actually show up in the real world :)
<dkessel> flocculant: well it would "just" need fixing the test then i guess. i filed it as bug 1479064 btw
<ubottu> bug 1479064 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Autopilot test "EnglishDefaultInstallTestCase" fails with Xubuntu i386 Wily daily ISO" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1479064
<dkessel> oh knome, krytarik: my docs PPA builds have stopped working tonight, build log is here: https://launchpad.net/~dkessel/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-docs-daily/+build/7731164/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-amd64.xubuntu-docs_15.99-201507272349%7E201507280001%7Eubuntu15.10.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<flocculant> dkessel: confirmed that
<dkessel> i would guess that is because of you guys' changes from late yesterday ;)
<krytarik> dkessel: Yep, that was before commit 408, "Make scripts/pdf-create.sh executable". :P
<dkessel> alright :)
<krytarik> knome: However, I just noticed we forgot to update the build depends - so that'd fail still. :D
<krytarik> knome: Ah, there you go :D - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/files/head:/data/wily/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you bzr tag?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I prefer laser tag
<bluesabre> what are you asking about me tagging? :)
<Unit193> The new releases of packages?
<bluesabre> I don't think we normally tag
<bluesabre> we probably should
<bluesabre> shimmer-themes isn't in bzr
<Unit193> Ah, I just saw SwissBot say something about releasing one.
<bluesabre> xubuntu-artwork made its way out of new and into proposed :)
<bluesabre> I suppose the next step is getting libreoffice-style-elementary into the seed and not tango
<bluesabre> tango|human are recommends on lo
<jcjordyn120> hey knome, what project's do you manage ?
<knome> jcjordyn120, i don't understand the question
<jcjordyn120> knome, i ment what do you contribute to in the open source community >
<knome> too many things to list
<jcjordyn120> knome, wow
<jcjordyn120> knome, does one include xfce
<knome> i'm the xubutnu website lead (and the former project lead), so i'm involved with a lot of things here; i'm also the founder and leader of the shimmer project, which provides themes for xubuntu for example
<knome> i help xfce where i can, but i'm not a programmer
<jcjordyn120> knome, oh ok, right now i am createing a session manager
<knome> bluesabre, did you read issue #1 for the lo-theme on github?
<jcjordyn120> knome, a universal one
<knome> jcjordyn120, ok... good luck with that.
<jcjordyn120> knome, thanks
<bluesabre> knome: yes
<bluesabre> I think we'd mentioned in a few places about it getting upstreamed
<knome> bluesabre, just checking :)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> yes
<knome> i know, i know
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> so are you looking to replace the theme in our seed or in LO in all ubuntu?
<bluesabre> well, there's a related bug on the document foundation's BZ
<bluesabre> basically, nothing is to be replaced
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> but the new theme added to the list of existing themes
<knome> can you link me to that?
<bluesabre> bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92458
<knome> thanks
<knome> too bad that isn't a real link
<knome> just a faux one
<bluesabre> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92458
<knome> thanks ;)
<ubottu> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 92458 in UI "Integrate the âelementaryâ theme into LibreOffice" [Normal,New]
<knome> i didn't read that anything isn't replaced there
<knome> though i also didn't read that anything is replaced
<bluesabre> """
<bluesabre> @BjÃ¶rn: Honestly, Canonicalâs design team is so embroiled in the phone project that they would ignore my bug report anyway.
<meetingology> bluesabre: Error: "BjÃ¶rn:" is not a valid command.
<bluesabre> Iâm dropping the Human theme from this to make you more comfortable.
<bluesabre> """
<bluesabre> originally he proposed that the human theme be replaced with the elementary theme
<knome> where?
<knome> sorry for being nitpicky, but i don't read that either
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/libreoffice-style-elementary/issues/1
<bluesabre> comment 1
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> yes, but then again that's not on the DF.org tracker
<knome> so as i see it, people on that tracker are confused what the goal *is*
<knome> BjÃ¶rn: "What is the point/goal of this anyway? The human theme can be turned off by a configure switch and IIRC isnt even enabled by default. If the goal is to make Ubuntu ship a different default, this certainly isnt the way towards that goal (see above)."
<bluesabre> I think the title may have been different or something
<bluesabre> but that was the original proposal
<knome> so i guess that means that one can't replace human in upstream - because there is no human in upstream
<bluesabre> well, there is
<knome> human is only the default theme in ubuntu
<bluesabre> human is upstream, its just not built by default
<knome> by default, that is
<knome> i'm confused
<bluesabre> it's confusing
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> maybe
<bluesabre> what was originally proposed: "human is obsolete, let's replace it with elementary, which human is partially based on"
<knome> ok
<pleia2> we are borg?
<knome> in github?
<bluesabre> ye
<bluesabre> s
<bluesabre> I think
<knome> well that's the thing
<bluesabre> stop asking questions :p
<knome> have people in the df.org thread read that?
<knome> meh
<knome> now you're forbidding all the fun from me.
<bluesabre> presumably? "Right. I would really not enjoy killing the Human theme, as likely it would just mean that I would need to carry it as a cumbersome vendor patch anyway, just creating lots of pointless work along the way."
<bluesabre> from https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92458#c3
<ubottu> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 92458 in UI "Integrate the âelementaryâ theme into LibreOffice" [Normal,New]
<knome> "kill" -> remove completely?
<knome> or replace?
<bluesabre> rm -rf human
<bluesabre> so both
<bluesabre> kill human
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> add elemtnary
<knome> well, i don't think there's much need to remove it completely
<knome> or much idea
<bluesabre> I agree
<knome> people might want to keep on using it
<bluesabre> that wasn't our proposal
<Unit193> Killing humans?
<knome> so even if it got replaced... it should be kept around
<bluesabre> and it makes sense to me to not remove it
<bluesabre> since ubuntu def. uses it
<knome> agreed
<knome> ok - so for the practical side...
<knome> can we override the ubuntu default in xubuntu?
<Unit193> Kubuntu does, sooo.
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> we already do too
<bluesabre> we ship tango today
<knome> aha
<knome> ship tango on the love boat?
<Unit193> Just need someone to add it to alternate deps.
<knome> could somebody like Unit193 do it via sponsoring? :d
<bluesabre> and poking
<Unit193> Easier to get the Ubuntu maintainer to do it.
<bluesabre> ^
<bluesabre> Bjorn most likely
<knome> it's Ã¶
 * bluesabre is too lazy to type or copy+paste like
<bluesabre> that
<bluesabre> like Steinbeiss
<knome> you don't have a " key in your keyboard
<knome> hah, altgr+s = Ã
<knome> go finnish layout!
<knome> boo US layout!
<bluesabre> :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm too lazy for that, Simon or just plain ochosi.
<knome> bluesabre, answer my question, it's a valid one :P
<knome> fi layout has " ^ ~ in one button
<knome> " not being quote, but the umlaut really
<bluesabre> ah, sorry about that
<bluesabre> we have the ? in the US layout
<bluesabre> helps define a question
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> ÅÃ¯llÃ¿ Ã¿Ã¶Ã¼
<knome> ooh, that one
<knome> it's hidden behind +
<knome> ;)=
<bluesabre> my altgr doesn't seem to work to type characters
<knome> hmm
<knome> there's a variant of the fi layout where the same happens
<knome> then you can easily type â¬
<knome> :P
<ochosi> good to read these variations of my name and all :>
<ochosi> so hey and good night everyone!
<knome> ochosi, no it's not!
<ochosi> bluesabre: don't forget to release xfpanel-switch ;)
<ochosi> ->
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-29
<bluesabre> ochosi: released, https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/1.0/1.0.0
<bluesabre> you can do the honors of announcing it if you'd like :)
 * bluesabre doesn't look forward to the bug/hate/love mail :D
<pleia2> ooh, unixstickers now offers a xubuntu button that I think knome would approve of :) http://www.unixstickers.com/linux-pins-buttons/linux-distributions-pins-buttons/xubuntu-linux-logo-pin-button
<pleia2> (no icky white edges like the custom ones I ordered a while back)
<pleia2> the xubuntu kit these days pretty nice too http://www.unixstickers.com/stickers/linux_os_distribution_stickers/xubuntu-kit-stickers-and-pins
<Noskcaj> sgt-puzzles-launcher is now functional with iconview
<sorinb> congrats bluesabre ! :)
<sorinb> this will be useful
<knome> pleia2, heh!
<knome> sorinb, connection problems?
<flocculant> dkessel: re blueprint " current situation with automated package testing" - is that where it has been for the last 3 or so cycles? 
<flocculant> eg not really doable much at all? 
<flocculant> knome: I thought the show/hide whiteboard had disappeared - found it - and Edit spec \o/ 
<dkessel> flocculant: well it is getting better. More apps are geting ported to gtk3 now
<dkessel> So in theory it might be easier to do it now. But I haven't spent enough time on it yet and probably won't be able to for a while
<dkessel> mousepad should be testable in autopilot, now that it has been ported to gtk3
<flocculant> yep
<dkessel> I only checked that it supports introspection now, though. Nothing else
<flocculant> basically - I just want to lost stuff from the blueprint if we're not going to actually get there
<flocculant> this cycle
<dkessel> Well I guess then byebye item ;)
<flocculant> and reading what I have read - this is mostly about when we get gtk3 - but MOSTLY about time and people to look :D
<flocculant> dkessel: you got time for a quick PM?
<dkessel> yes
<knome> somebody from the team around?
<Noskcaj> knome, do i count?
<knome> Noskcaj, yes
<knome> does http://xstatus.knome.fi/#tab-details/noskcaj+teams look like it picked up the right team memberships for you?
<knome> for comparison, without +teams: http://xstatus.knome.fi/#tab-details/noskcaj
<Noskcaj> looks right
<knome> ok, thanks
<ochosi> knome: same for me, looks good
<knome> good good
<knome> that was one part of the stuff that needed to be done for the email notifications ;)
<knome> now the cronned mail looks good
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Is there a particular icon i should use for the puzzles launcher?
<Noskcaj> I'll put a working beta in the staging ppa later today
<ochosi> knome: awesome sauce
<ochosi> Noskcaj: personally i'd add a new/separate icon for it
<ochosi> you can use some generic icon meanwhile, but i'm not sure what to suggest, there are no good games standards (apart from the gaming category icon, but that's already used for the category)
<knome> i'd probably go for a square split to four, then a recognisable symbol (from some of the games in the pack) in each tile
<knome> and some matching/related bg colors for the tiles
<knome> one of them could be a tent (from tents) on a green bg
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice! you mean i should blog or do you want an email to xfce4-devel ml?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-30
<bluesabre> ochosi: email to the ML I and anything else you wanna do :)
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ok. Would you be able to make it? I'll just use an sgt icon till then
<ali1234> poster of this screenshot claims it is numix https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/35h9a3/xfce_back_to_xfce/
<ali1234> why does my system look completely different when i set theme to numix?
<ali1234> for example my system, thunar with numix: http://i.imgur.com/8yO2ubs.png
<ali1234> hmm... because it's not numix at all, it's adwaita
<ali1234> next question: why is the bluetooth icon not mono on 15.04?
<flocculant> ochosi: can you admin me on https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers 
<flocculant> so I can mail testers from LP :)
<Noskcaj> sgt-puzzles-launcher 0.0.1 has been uploaded
<flocculant> Noskcaj: nice one :)
<bluesabre> good job Noskcaj :D
<Noskcaj> It's pretty crap, but thanks.
<Noskcaj> big TODO list, but all it needs to be archive-safe is an icon.
<Noskcaj> and us choosing how we want to handle the desktop file hiding
<ochosi> flocculant: done
<ochosi> ali1234: the icons are numix, the gtk theme is adwaita
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'll see what i can do
<flocculant> ochosi: ta :)
<ochosi> flocculant: also, with all the work knome has put into our new status tracker, i hope that'll motivate you to use it again over trello ;)
<flocculant> well 
<flocculant> we'll see :)
<flocculant> ochosi: LP is ok - but I can't for instance - tell it a date I want to do something and have it remind me ;)
<flocculant> also need something actually readable to send testers too 
<knome> flocculant, i'm just setting up reminders for open work items you can get every day
<flocculant> right, not quite what I meant - but I guess others might like that 
<knome> i acknowledge it isn't exactly what you want
<flocculant> :)
<knome> maybe we can set up something like what you want too
<knome> but what was the comment re: readable for testers?
<flocculant> not sure how we could get due dates onto LP 
<knome> the tracker can handle this and that.
<knome> and we can make it handle more
<flocculant> reading the dev list back in June - qa was discussing with some testers how to get info to them - was m/l and trello 
<flocculant> that's what I was referring too 
<knome> can you point me to the thread or summarize it again?
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-May/010746.html
<knome> thanks
<flocculant> and forward from there 
<knome> right, that thread
<knome> well it went to nonsense quickly
<flocculant> when doesn't it
<knome> when you send a mail and nobody replies to it? :P
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> anyway - the long and short of it is that lp and blueprints isn't the place to do that sort of thing :)
<flocculant> and mailing list comes up short really, so until I know of something else that can be used ... 
<knome> likely not, because there isn't any single actionable item
<flocculant> yep
<knome> well, bbl
<flocculant> hf
<knome> wife wants the laptop and then she has other tasks assigned to me
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> let's pick this up when i get back
<knome> ->
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: anything in particular you want in a very near menulibre release?
<bluesabre> going to improve pantheon and plank integration
<bluesabre> since I've seen some distress in my google search subscription :)
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> flocculant, so i understand what you'd like $software to do, but what it is for the testers?
<flocculant> somewhere easy for them to read foo and bar basically
<flocculant> toying with a couple of ideas - possibly revamp x.org qa page(s) with a bit more detail, or if I have sufficient time to fight ubuntu wiki maybe there 
<knome> the ubuntu wiki seems to be the slowest out there now
<knome> LP has gotten a datacentre move and timeouts have been reduced
<knome> so it's actually pretty good now
<flocculant> lp? 
<flocculant> because the wiki is slower than ever 
<knome> yes, LP
<flocculant> long and short at the moment is I'm not completely sure what I need as I'm not completely sure what I'm going to be doing :)
<flocculant> I just know that LP is not the right place for it :)
<knome> in a way, the mailing list sounds like the right place
<knome> it's well archived, and you can do updates as often as you wish
<knome> of course, it doesn't necessarily reach the testers the way we wanted
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> but then what will?
<flocculant> still not sure m/l is right
<knome> i mean, the technology doesn't bring the users
<flocculant> you can't actually update things - all you can do is resend with something else
<flocculant> knome: ofc not :)
<knome> yep
<knome> but then if it's so much in flux, something like etherpad might just be the right choice
<knome> i know it sucks people need to have an LP account...
<knome> but tbh, they need that to do pretty much anything
<flocculant> yea - and of course you have to wait to be added to the team 
<knome> if that seems to be the bottleneck, i can volunteer to admin the team too
<flocculant> I'd rather have something that people can *just* look at easily - and for that type of thing trello appears to be easiest 
<knome> what i like pad > trello is the ownership colors
<flocculant> yea - that's a useful thing
<knome> and you also have the chat there
<flocculant> yep
<knome> but yeah, it would be perfect if you could see without account
<ochosi> i guess you can set pads up like that, just not the *buntu pad
<knome> yes, you can set up pads like anybody can edit
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> didn't think of that tbh
<flocculant> *other* pads
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: nothing in particular from my side for menulibre
<flocculant> not that it's likely to happen - with trello as it is set up - random people can read but not edit
<flocculant> so no chance of random graffiti to clear up etc
<flocculant> though - with ~10 testers it'd not take long to ask who did it :D 
<flocculant> the end result needs to be easy for testers to just check what's needed - I'm not overly concerned with how much work is in it for me tbh
<knome> flocculant, with that amount it's not too hard to get them to register an LP account ;)
<flocculant> not sure what LP has to do with it? 
<knome> nvm :P
<flocculant> unless you're referring to buntu pad
<knome> yep
<flocculant> right - still not sure I'm liking pad vs trello for what I anticipate 
<knome> one option would be to make ~xubuntu-testers a member of ~ubuntu-etherpad -> all testers get the access automatically
<knome> ok
<knome> i'm not opposed to you using trello, i'm just wondering if we could get it all in one place
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> if it works out that we can I've not got an issue with using something else 
<flocculant> nothing is set in stone
<knome> could the information be in the ISO tracker somehow?
<knome> (or packages where appropriate)
<flocculant> what I'm really after is working kinks out between now and end of wily cycle so it's all in place and working for the LTS cycle
<knome> ack
<flocculant> nah - trackers even further away than blueprint is :)
<flocculant> imagine somewhere *we* can write - people test this
<flocculant> and then change it tomorrow
<flocculant> with generic information as well 
<knome> tracker could be able to do that
<knome> there's the notice board for front page
<knome> why not for product families
<ochosi> knome: but the pad isnt much better than trello for the tracker, no?
<knome> ochosi, right
<knome> ochosi, otoh, the ISO tracker would be better because people need to go there to report tests anyway
<knome> so avoids extra steps
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> is that one still actively maintained/developed?
<flocculant> knome: the tracker is just too unwieldy - I'm obviously not making the agility I want plain enough :)
<flocculant> talking of which - need to sort tracker admin out with nick 
<flocculant> I don't particularly want to use *anything* - but for what I anticipate/envisage - trello seems the best fit for it
<knome> ochosi, there are people who have done updates for it lately
<knome> i have more tasks incoming.
<knome> see you later.
<flocculant> heh - cya later :)
<ochosi> hf knome 
<ali1234> ristretto won't let me zoom an image to more than 50.5% ...
<ali1234> in fact it won't let the image be bigger than the window... ever
<ochosi> "ristretto: italian for 'restricted'" (in this case zooming) ;)
<ali1234> this is a bug though right?
<ali1234> the "1:1" button just does nothing...
<flocculant> I just zoomed something to 400% - and then back to 100% with the '1' button
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/9ATHdff.png this is the image
<flocculant> saved that and ristretto works fine with that too, though it does stop zooming at 400% 
<ochosi> knome: started some trial on a greybird a11y xfwm4 theme, if you have time we can discuss how far to take the a11y aspect
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I've made the requested changes to chapter 1 and finished the draft of chapter 2. They should be ready for your review.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: nice! what's left from your pov?
<jjfrv8> I thought I needed to work through the rest of the chapters that were copied over to the wiki. Unless you don't think they're all needed.
<ochosi> tbh i haven't looked recently
<jjfrv8> Using Removable Media and Preferences shouldn't take too much work. 
<jjfrv8> But as I mentioned earlier, the plugins stuff seems to be outdated and I don't know what's accurate about them anymore.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: k, i'll try to review the first two chapters asap
<knome> ochosi, sure
<Noskcaj> How should i hide the sgt-puzzles desktop files? Just a postinst that adds a bunch of NoDisplays ?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i'd do it like that but it might be best to ask bluesabre, he has more xp with menu and desktop file spec
<Noskcaj> ok
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: there's probably no good way to really do it outside of making them no-display
<ochosi> oh, and there he is :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i would second this bugreport/patch/suggestion btw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1476401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1476401 in Catfish "Missing GenericName" [Undecided,New]
<knome> ochosi, if you didn't notice, i'm here too ;)
<ochosi> knome: yeah yeah
 * ochosi pats knome on the head
<knome> hah
<knome> just saying, i'm not in a rush
<bluesabre> ochosi: makes sense
<bluesabre> but catfish is next week
<bluesabre> silly simon
<bluesabre> :p
<ochosi> oh ofc ;))
<ochosi> knome: well you could start with a draft for a blog post/announcement for xfpanel-switch. i gotta head to bed soon tonight, but i guess i could finalise it tomorrow ;)
<knome> hahah
<knome> i thought you wanted to talk about greybird a11y :P
<ochosi> yeah, i can quickly tell you what i had in mind
<knome> if you think it's worth it
<knome> (instead of actually having time to sit down and discuss about it)
<ochosi> since an a11y gtk theme is a lot of work and there's not enough time for me to work on that this cycle i thought i'd just do more variations of the xfwm4 theme and we could just ship all of them
<ochosi> one of them can be found in the xfwm4-refresh branch
<knome> heh
<knome> okay
<ochosi> another one will get pushed to xfwm4-a11y
<ochosi> for a11y i considered making it highcontrast, but i'm not 100% sure of that now
<ochosi> maybe just a thicker-border greybird xfwm4 version
<knome> xfwm?
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> thicker border == bigger buttons would be a good start
<knome> maybe the inside gradient could be hinting more towards white at the top
<knome> well, the gradient that we'd introduce
<ochosi> if you have time to check it out now, i can quickly push what i have
<knome> ok, if you remind me how to get the branch
<bluesabre> go to tree, break off branch
<bluesabre> 3. smack bluesabre with said branch for being a troll
<knome> :D
<ochosi> knome: git clone $repo && git checkout xfwm4-a11y
<ochosi> bluesabre (and everyone else) feel free to take a look too
<ochosi> wouldnt mind some feedback on that one
<knome> was the font size controlled by xfwm themes?
<knome> or just user?
<ochosi> just a user setting
<knome> ok
<knome> first comments/thoughts:
<knome> the active/inactive window menu button coloring is weird
<ochosi> which sucks a bit, cause the title vertical offset is "hardcoded" (or at least not in very user-friendly place)
<knome> i would expect them to be the other way around really
<bluesabre> ochosi: whats the repo in this case?
<knome> well, the bg color
<ochosi> bluesabre: normal greybird repo
<knome> bluesabre, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> stupid me
<ochosi> knome: yeah, those buttons i haven't touched
<knome> another thing is that i'd up the size of the button icons
<ochosi> for now i'm mostly curious whether you think the size is enough
<ochosi> or whether you like this sort of hover-style
<ochosi> which makes the buttons a bit more discoverable i think
<knome> i'm not a fan of that hover-style
<ochosi> i'd have to redraw them potentially anyway
<knome> but for a11y...
<knome> i don't know
<ochosi> yeah, this is not the new default look
<knome> maybe it'd help more if they were visible at all time
<knome> even slightly
<ochosi> yeah, that's another option
<knome> even if that isn't too accessible
<knome> but some highlight for the button area
<ochosi> i could just make them look like any other gtk button
<knome> then for hover, more white for the bg
<knome> mmh, why not
<knome> something like that might work
<ochosi> shouldn't be too hard
<knome> i don't know if that much padding is helpful between the buttons
<knome> maybe it doesn't look so bad when/if they have the borders visible at all times
<ochosi> i guess we'll know when they aren't flat anymore
<knome> yep
<knome> and really, make the icons inside larger
<knome> their color is good IMO
<ochosi> i'd just do the same padding as with the rest of the theme / buttons
<ochosi> for starters at least
<ochosi> mhm, was thinking about that too
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> that looks nice
<ochosi> i made the borders 3px btw
<ochosi> bumped from 1px
<knome> yep, that's good
<knome> could be even 4
<knome> or 5
<ochosi> bluesabre: feel free to check out the xfwm4-refresh branch too
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that's what i was wondering. how far should i push that
<knome> again, it's a11y
<ochosi> yeah, so maybe 4 or 5 then
<knome> how much is enough to hit that comfortably *every time* (for us at least)
<knome> it should be frustration-free
<knome> so on the more minor issues
<knome> i would make the padding between the button borders and window borders smaller
<knome> imo they can be pretty close to the edge
<knome> or is that exactly the handle that's taking the space there too?
<ochosi> yeah, probably, but that again will be something to see when they're not flat anymore
<knome> yep
<knome> at least one thing to fix:
<knome> make the padding to top the same as to left
<knome> or right
<knome> looks weird now
<ochosi> i'll try to quickly fix up the buttons so we can get a better impression of that
<knome> ok
<ochosi> also gotta fix the style
<ochosi> not sure i like those alternative symbols
<knome> no hurry for me :P
<knome> right, that might be confusing too
<knome> and it's still greybird, so consistency++
<bluesabre> ochosi: seems like the menu is quite a bit over
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/hbRI43w.png
<ochosi> wow weird
<knome> can confirm that
<ochosi> but yeah
<ochosi> the problem is fairly obvious
<ochosi> when looking at the theme
<ochosi> so no worries, i'll fix that
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> this is more of a sketch tbh
<knome> like a python sketch?
<bluesabre> not again!
<knome> yes again!
 * bluesabre dies
<knome> he's pining for the fjords
<ochosi> pull again
<knome> yeah, i would likely put them closer to each other
<knome> and make a more prominent hover style
<ochosi> the hover style is currently very close to the gtk buttons
<ochosi> or the same
<knome> right, but that likely needs fixing too once we get there
<ochosi> right, but that's still far away :)
<knome> sure, but let's set the standard
<ochosi> i thought consistency++ ;)
<knome> this way we can also get feedback on whether it's too bright
<knome> or if it isn't bright enough
<knome> so we have time to adjust
<ochosi> first i wanna get the button size and all that right
<ochosi> then we can fiddle with hover styles i'd say
<knome> sure
<knome> just saying since you wanted feedback, eh?
<ochosi> otherwise i always have to go back and mod everything
<ochosi> yeah yeah ;)
<knome> actually,
<ochosi> bluesabre: there is some weird gtk3 mechanism that makes my touchpad constantly select or grab stuff, have you noticed any of that at all?
<knome> i like how the menu button looks on the inactive window
<ochosi> bluesabre: even when i just wanna move the cursor around with one finger
<knome> if we had that and the fg color of the button on the active window...
<ochosi> isn't that too dark though?
<knome> that would set the buttons off just enough from the wm
<knome> i don't know
<knome> i just like how it looks
<knome> a11y doesn't need to mean it looks like a turd
<bluesabre> ochosi: more things (toolbars) are grabbable in gtk3
<ochosi> knome: ok pull that in
<knome> juicy
<knome> that looks good imo
<knome> now th fg might need to be a bit darker
<knome> but that's fine really
<ochosi> the gradient seems a bit wrong to me
<knome> really?
<ochosi> seems to go lighter toward the bottom
<knome> doesn't it?
<ochosi> which is a bit odd with the rest of the buttons of the theme doing the opposite
<bluesabre> Did you reduce the contrast of the text?
<knome> bluesabre, with the xfwm theming? :P
<bluesabre> yah
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, also just noticed that i get erroneous text-selection in mousepad-gtk3 with my touchpad. really weird and only gtk3 related
<bluesabre> the xfwm font seems lighter than before
<bluesabre> maybe not
<ochosi> maybe, not sure
<ochosi> i would make it darker anyway
<knome> ochosi, it looks like it's lighter on the bottom because it is
<ochosi> the active one at least
<ochosi> knome: yeah i know, but that's what feels wrong to me
<knome> i'm fine with flipping it over
<knome> and an idea:
<knome> maybe the close/menu buttons could have that lighter style
<knome> if you want
<knome> to emphasize their special meaning
<knome> maybe it isn't the best thing to overthink/-do this tonight
<knome> go get some sleep :)
<knome> generally, this is a good direction
<knome> ++
<knome> (generally meaning, everything that i didn't say isn't perfect is good, eg. nothing)
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> was mainly going for the general feedback of whether you agree with this direction
<ochosi> as i said, all the buttons will likely have to be redrawn entirely
<ochosi> i'm not happy with how that theme is done atm
<knome> it's good for me, now we need some people who actually needs a11y stuff
<ochosi> prolly
<knome> but let's improve it to be better first
<ochosi> anybody here knows some old folks? :
<ochosi> :p
<knome> ochosi, your mom
<knome> ba-dum tsshh
<ochosi> no seriously, thing is i don't wanna go highcontrast-a11y
<ochosi> just a bit more easy to hit everything
<knome> ooh, he's a hitter
<ochosi> :D
<knome> know what i mean, know what i mean
<knome> o-o-ooo
<knome> et cetera
<ochosi> indeed, i do :)
<knome> i know you do..
<knome> aaanyway
<knome> maybe we can get folks around ubuntu help us with this
<knome> get it cycled in the UWN
<knome> canonical design folks?
<knome> might be a stretch, but who knows
<ochosi> right, why not
<ochosi> but they might go too far in the real a11y direction
<ochosi> which means maybe 2x the size and contrsat
<ochosi> contrast
<knome> well, we would only ask for feedback
<knome> but then again
<knome> i guess it depends on the definition
<knome> another one just needs bigger borders
<knome> another one more contrast
<knome> etc
<ochosi> bluesabre: i dunno why you never mentioned this hideous theming artifact: http://i.imgur.com/lYNAZvZ.png
<knome> it's endless..
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> so the only way to catch-all is to make a catch-all, "real" a11y theme
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess i should really try to get gtkentries and all other widgets at the same size/padding. this really sucks
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i don't wanna do that
<ochosi> there's already highcontrast for that
<knome> yeah, me neither
<knome> but the balance is important to find
<knome> and for that, guesses are meh
<knome> i could probably ask a few non-technical people to evaluate it
<knome> read: relatives
<ochosi> alright
<knome> and maybe somebody else
<ochosi> anyway, will get some sleep now
<knome> let's think about that when it's current
<knome> oki, good night
<ochosi> night everyone
<knome> he's just resting
<knome> people
<knome> no worries
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh also, please add ctrl+q as a shortcut to menulibre for quitting
<bluesabre> ochosi: will do
<bluesabre> ochosi: still around?
<bluesabre> that theming bug you mentioned is really me not using widgets correctly, and is fixed in the 2.1 branch
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/yScNLMn.png
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-31
<knome>  off to bed, see you later
<knome> have a nice evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<Dragon64> Good evening
<jjfrv8> ochosi, Preferences is ready for a review as well.
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/2.1/revision/248
<bluesabre> :D
<ali1234> why do the tabs in mousepad look weird now?
<ochosi> bluesabre: phew nice :) thanks!
<Noskcaj> puzzles launcher 0.0.2 is now in the PPA, maintscripts made
<flocculant> busy old bot that one 
<knome> Dragon64, hello
<Dragon64> hello
<drc> Any noted problems DL'ing the daily images?
<flocculant> not sure about a straight downloads - but zsyncing works it seems
<flocculant> also appears to download ok from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20150731/
<drc> Straight DL'ing appears to work until the very end when FF shows a fail and the file disappears.  Tried Xubuntu and Kubuntu daily's no go...DL'ing X15.04 from cdimage works just fine.
<flocculant> just rechecking the zsync 
<flocculant> drc: where did you get it from? dated or daily? 
<flocculant> zsync works for current (not daily)
<flocculant> just trying the straight download here 
<flocculant> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<drc> I tried both current and dated
<flocculant> ok - well I'll know in ~25 minutes what happens for me 
<drc> Like I said, wait until the very end...it's tricksy :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> drc: yup - failed 
<drc> Yay, it's not just me...er...I mean, that's too bad :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<drc> Just for grins and giggles, I'm DL'ing yesterday's daily.
<flocculant> going to see if I get some sort of error message with wget
<drc> 'bout 10 min from now....
<flocculant> drc: if you do and you get that ok - would be useful to double check zsyncing to today's 
<drc> never done that...might need instructions.
<flocculant> ok :)
<flocculant> it's certainly useful if you get these images frequently 
<drc> I don't, that's why I've never done it.
<flocculant> aah right :)
<drc> huh...yesterday's daily DL'ed fine
<drc> back in a bit
<drc> Looks like everything is working now...today's dated daily does not fail at the end (as of bout 2 minutes ago)
<flocculant> odd - but good :)
<drc> must be k...er...gnomes.
<flocculant> lol
<ochosi> evening all
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> hey flocculant, how's it going?
<flocculant> ok - you? 
<flocculant> reading -quality where there's a discussion about the ubiquity autopilot tests going on 
<ochosi> good good, a bit tired though
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> it'll get worse ... 
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah, i guess
<knome> flocculant, since we've been discussing QA and the xubuntu tracker, is there something from the ISO/packages tracker you'd like to see in the xubuntu tracker?
<knome> (keeping in mind the limitations the tracker API has)
<flocculant> knome: I don't think so 
<flocculant> about the only things that *might* be useful would be number of tests done and this new pass/fail for ubiquity possibility
<flocculant> but iso.qa is more likely to have up to date info on it anyway
<flocculant> perhaps if during the next cycle we go back to packages.qa - that might be useful information for others
<flocculant> but I would be wary of adding stuff to tracker because it can be done
<ochosi> could be useful though for non-qa folks to get a quick glance of how things are
<ochosi> (i mean if there is useful stuff in the api)
<knome> i'll look around quickly
<knome> which probably means i'll spend the night hacking on xml-rpc
<knome> but... that's ok
<flocculant> ochosi: true 
<flocculant> knome: if you are going to look then I'd guess a total for daily 32/64 would be sufficient for non-qa people
<knome> what about for qa people? :P
<flocculant> but it really depends on how often it updates
<flocculant> knome: I'd expect qa people to want more detail and go to the qa tracker :p
<knome> for the ultimately up-to-date information, you should always refer to the source, eg. the qa tracker
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> maybe bugs from the summary - trouble there is the current page goes back further than wily 
<ochosi> still, a single go-to place might make things easier for newcomers
<flocculant> tbh - a list of bugs from launchpad would be more useful - to me at least :p
<Unit193> But keep in mind simple != information overload.
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - I agree with that view - just not so useful to me
<knome> flocculant, list of what launchpad bugs?
<flocculant> Unit193: yep "I would be wary of adding stuff to tracker because it can be done" 
<flocculant> knome: 'current dev version' ones
<knome> flocculant, i guess there is no common nominator you can use to search the bugs from LP?
<flocculant> not that I've managed to find no 
<ochosi> Unit193: btw while you're around, how's the x-core workitem going? anything you need help with there or are things moving ahead?
<flocculant> ochosi: to be honest for non-qa people wouldn't a mail to the list once a week with total tests be enough 
<flocculant> which has the added bonus of highlighting that to everyone subscribed to that list
<Unit193> ochosi: Nope.
<knome> flocculant, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.struc
<knome> oops...
<flocculant> :D
<knome> http://tinyurl.com/q3wvvgm
<knome> ^ all wily bugs reported from the iso tracker
<knome> understanding which of those affect us... noep
<knome> we need the qa trackers add more tags automatically
<ochosi> Unit193: ehm, nope to what? progress or need for help?
<Unit193> Now you've reversed the order of questions!  Progress.
<ochosi> yeah, but what about the other question?
<knome> ugh, i don't understand the php xml-rpc interface
<knome> that's a good start.
<Unit193> ochosi: I could maybe cludge something together for lp:ubuntu-cdimage, the Debian installer I haven't the slightest idea, and livecd-rootfs looks based on live-build, which I have messed with.  So I'd say that's a safe presumption that someone that actually knows something on these, or at least python.
<knome> Unit193, would you also be willing to update debian-cd for us with the new pcx from krytarik?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/5KhCuR1s4j0RGIc5sav0 should be it for livecd-rootfs, in theory.
<Unit193> ochosi: I believe micahg volunteered to help with ubuntu-cdimage which would be great.
<Unit193> knome: And, that'd be in lp:~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu
<knome> Unit193, that works for me.
<ochosi> Unit193: maybe we could split this up into >1 workitem then to account for micahg's part
<ochosi> or to track the progress in more detail maybe
<flocculant> night all 
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<ochosi> night flocculant 
<flocculant> about tomorrow off and on
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-01
<bluesabre> o.o
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do we want to switch to sgt-puzzles this cycle? All the launcher needs to be in a archive-ready state is an icon
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: potentially, I'll try to get some testing in on it this weekend and we can bring the decision in next week's meeting
<Noskcaj> ok. i'll need to set up translations, won't i?
<Unit193> Fix the issues I noted? :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Anything not in the TODO file?
<Unit193> I don't know. :P
<Noskcaj> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+junk/sgt-puzzles-launcher/view/head:/TODO
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+junk/sgt-puzzles-launcher/revision/15 uhh, you can't do that...
<Noskcaj> How to fix?
<Unit193> (https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html 10.7)
<Noskcaj> ...
<Noskcaj> I realise it's not a good solution, but is there anything other than some if statements that i need?
<Unit193> Well, while not perfect you can put them in another XDG_DATA_DIRS to toggle hidden=true, /usr/share/xfce4/applications/ for example.
<Unit193> At least it's not as hacky, just only works in Xfce. :P
<Noskcaj> Is there any way it will actually break something, or is it just because it's too hacky?
<ochosi> morning everyone
<flocculant> morning ochosi 
<lderan> right, hello everyone :)
<ochosi> hey lderan 
<ochosi> how're things?
<bluesabre> morning everyone
<lderan> not been so good of late, but hopefully getting better. I am really sorry about my absence for the past half a dozen months
<lderan> how are things with yourself?
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> lderan: oh well, life can always turn hectic. it's starting to do that here too ;)
<lderan> oh dear
<ochosi> bluesabre: anything you're planning on working on today? just saying cause i'll be about for a bit
<bluesabre> ochosi: poking menulibre as much as possible to get a release out tomrrow
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> if there's anything i can help with lemme know
<bluesabre> well
<bluesabre> if you want to check out https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/2.1 and let me know if there are any changes you'
<bluesabre> d recommend for appearance/usability/etc
<bluesabre> to use it:
<bluesabre> python3 setup.py install --user; ~/.local/bin/menulibre
<ochosi> ok, will do
<bluesabre> thanks
<ochosi> humm GLib.Error: gtk-builder-error-quark: Invalid property: GtkScrolledWindow.overlay_scrolling on line 834 (11)
<ochosi> oh woops
<ochosi> that's probably me not being on gtk3.16
<ochosi> is that a problem?
<bluesabre> should work without it
<bluesabre> gtk should really not be so chatty with invalid properties when it creates and removes many many properties every few months
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> well it actually does crash
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> lovely
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/0VFSEDC
<bluesabre> welllllllllllllp
<bluesabre> gimme a sec
<bluesabre> pull and reinstall
<ochosi> humm, no tags or revs to pull?
<ochosi> did you push to the 2.1 branch?
<bluesabre> didn't push
<bluesabre> try again :D
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> yeah, that's more like it
<ochosi> fwiw, using CSD would really make sense here...
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> since all the layout of the app is already extremly CSDy
<bluesabre> it'd clean it up substantially
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> humm, i wonder what's wrong with the button style in that toolbar...
<ochosi> somehow they seem totally flat
<bluesabre> where?
<ochosi> at least the enabled ones
<ochosi> the insensitive ones look ok
<ochosi> inner-border is missing
<ochosi> already checked with the inspector but this time it seems to be the theme's fault
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and CSDify the header
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> that'll also fix those flat buttons without me touching anything :p
<bluesabre> :P
<lderan> woo
<ochosi> btw, i'm wondering whether not using symbolic icons in that toolbar wouldn't be better
<ochosi> i do like how elementary uses colored icons there tbh
<ochosi> (for other elements, like the inline toolbars, the symbolic icons are totally fine though)
<ochosi> could try that since it's not very hard
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> good idea
<bluesabre> I was on a symbolic kick at the time I cranked out 2.0
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> :)
 * ochosi remembers being really excited about those too
<ochosi> btw, i really wonder whether we shouldn't include the topmenu plugin in the xubuntu-extras PPA
<ochosi> it works ok, i've been using it for a few weeks already
<ochosi> and i fixed the theming for it in greybird 1.6
<bluesabre> sure, got a link?
<ochosi> one sec
<ochosi> the source/project page is here: https://git.javispedro.com/cgit/topmenu-gtk.git/about/
<ochosi> but it has been packaged already, obviously
<ochosi> in ppa:webupd8team/mate
<ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~webupd8team/+archive/ubuntu/mate
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I'll port that over sometime today
<ochosi> thing is, without greybird 1.6 it won't look good
<ochosi> so i guess adding it for <wily isn't a great idea
<bluesabre> k
<ochosi> (although apart from the warnings, greybird 1.6 can be used regression-free in vivid)
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/vYsH0Tx.png
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> (i really need to reconsider whether to add some button style to the menu button)
<ochosi> (at least on hover)
<ochosi> that really cleans things up and looks lovely if you ask me
<ochosi> are those separators widely used in CSD though?
<bluesabre> fixing one other thing, then I'll push and you can play with it some more
<bluesabre> that's just a button pack_start'd
<ochosi> right, seems to be the case with other csd apps too
<bluesabre> pushed
<bluesabre> brb
<ochosi> prolly have to improve the looks of those separators a bit in greybird
<ochosi> bluesabre: humm, again theming oddity? http://i.imgur.com/MwOSOkO.png
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah... haven't gotten to that one yet
<bluesabre> wondering what a good solution would be since I need two buttons there
<ochosi> geez, gtkgesture is really giving me headaches with my touchpad
<ochosi> always seems to initiate window-move randomely and then refuses to cancel that
<bluesabre> or maybe I don't need two buttons
<ochosi> yeah, just wanted to suggest that
<bluesabre> just the cancel button, and saving would commit the change
<ochosi> or just the accept button, and clicking away would cancel the change
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> that probably makes more sense
<bluesabre> I'll play with both ideas
<bluesabre> but it will be like the file selects below
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> the cancel "x" initially didn't make sense to me, tbh
<bluesabre> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/D2iVyJ6.png
<bluesabre> hitting enter, clicking the check, or saving will apply the change
<bluesabre> clicking elsewhere or hitting esc will cancel
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> that looks about right
<ochosi> that icon could theoretically be symbolic again
<ochosi> but the green looks ok too
<bluesabre> I'll probably just use symbolic for the inline toolbars on the bottom
<ochosi> k
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<ochosi> bluesabre: something seems odd in menulibre's headerbar. seems like the "add" button is a gtkmenubar
<ochosi> or maybe it's just inspector acting up
<ochosi> seemingly the first button in a headerbar always is a gtkmenubutton or something
<ochosi> so better change the packing order to get the real gtkmenubutton in the first position
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, need to make that a popover instead of a menu
<bluesabre> wasn't a super easy instant solution for that
<ochosi> btw, i just pushed some nice improvement to Greybird
<bluesabre> hi flocculant
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<ochosi> for GtkMenuButton
<bluesabre> ochosi: pushed the new name and comment entry
<ochosi> pulling...
<flocculant> bluesabre: good thanks 
<bluesabre> ochosi: what icon size would you recommend I use for the toolbar if I go back to non-symbolic?
<bluesabre> s/tool/header
<ochosi> bluesabre: already working on it, one sec ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> personally, i'd go for 16px, but then the buttons aren't square, which blows
<ochosi> oh well, actually they are
<ochosi> when all of them are
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/ILZWNwR.png
<bluesabre> ok, can do 16
<ochosi> normally, toolbar items have 24px icons
<ochosi> but in the headerbar most toolitems use the TOOLBAR_SMALL size
<bluesabre> part of the issue is that some of the buttons were hardcoded to 32px
<ochosi> which is 16px
<ochosi> i have the patch for that ^ ready btw
<ochosi> in case you want me to push that
<ochosi> (not that it's a lot of work)
<bluesabre> happy to take the patch
<bluesabre> I might actually make the add button into the applications-other icon
<bluesabre> it this case, it might make more sense
<bluesabre> but maybe not
<ochosi> pushed
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> glad you're in the menulibre-dev team
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> ochosi: talking of teams, can you add me to website one so I can do QA blog posts please :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: hehe, indeed ;)
<ochosi> flocculant: sure thing, one sec...
<flocculant> cheers
<ochosi> there, done
<ochosi> bluesabre: wow, you're not a member of the web team. how come?
<bluesabre> ochosi: probably because you guys are hesitant of my blog posts
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> yeah, all those fancy screenshots and stuff...
<ochosi> booh!
<bluesabre> it'd be a shame if our release annoucements displayed what we made
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> lunchtime, brb
<flocculant> bbl - nice to see you bluesabre if you've gone when I get back :)
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> seeya later flocculant
<bluesabre> ochosi: headerbar button sizes should be a bit more consistent now
<ochosi> bluesabre: indeed but not square anymore
<ochosi> maybe that's not a big problem though
<bluesabre> yeah... if we want them square I think we have to force a size
<bluesabre> not sure whats preferred here
<bluesabre> maybe I should look at some other CSD app code
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that sounds like a good idea
<ochosi> have you pulled the latest greybird for the separator and menubutton improvement?
<bluesabre> not yet
<bluesabre> doing so now
<bluesabre> ochosi: hm
<bluesabre> hovering the menubutton makes it grow when it gets borders
<bluesabre> makes the whole headerbar shift around
<bluesabre> and lots of weirdness
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> one sec
<bluesabre> before http://i.imgur.com/yh0wUbJ.png
<bluesabre> after http://i.imgur.com/ByC0MCo.png
<bluesabre> headerbar bigger, has a double line for the bottom border
<bluesabre> make some other things
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> looks totally fine here
<ochosi> on gtk3.14
<bluesabre> got a wily vm?
<ochosi> yeah, will fire that up and check in a bit
<ochosi> guess that must be a gtk3.16 "feature"
<bluesabre> gotta love those
<bluesabre> feel free to tweak menulibre a bit more... going to go take a shower, brb
<ochosi> meh, so yeah
<ochosi> in wily it behaves oddly
<ochosi> but actually it looks different from yours
<ochosi> with the hover style things look ok
<ochosi> the headerbar just doesnt have a bottom border without
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, works now for me in wily
<ochosi> pushed the fix to greybird
<ochosi> bluesabre: tbh, i preferred the button sizes as they were: http://i.imgur.com/D2iVyJ6.png
<ochosi> hm, or are they the same and just seem different at first glance..?
<ochosi> also, the window previews in alt-tab... hm, i'm really not a huge fan of displaying those by default
<bluesabre> ochosi: they were definitely square before, I forced them to be :)
<ochosi> oh ok
<bluesabre> square, 32px
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> did the greybird fix work for you?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup, looks good now
<ochosi> k, good to know
<ochosi> still works in gtk3.14 luckily
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> anything else that you wanna tackle in menulibre?
<bluesabre> any other ui improvements you'd like to see?
<bluesabre> otherwise, plenty of code to write for new feature/bugs/plank fixes
<ochosi> new features?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre?field.searchtext=%5BFeature+Request%5D&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&fie
<bluesabre> ld.has_no_package=
<bluesabre> only going to do a few of those for now
<ochosi> oh ok
<bluesabre> mainly interested in fixing plank :D
<ochosi> the UI still looks nice generally, no complaints here
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, also using plank here
<bluesabre> the issues in plank are because for each dock item, it points to the launcher originally pinned
<bluesabre> so, /usr
<ochosi> oh
<bluesabre> any changes local don't apply
<ochosi> so any modification never show
<ochosi> s
<bluesabre> so, just have to go in and tweak plank's dockitem files
<ochosi> sounds a bit tedious
<bluesabre> perhaps a bit
<ochosi> wouldn't it make sense to fix plank there?
<bluesabre> but shouldn't be too horrible
<ochosi> or is that a desired feature
<bluesabre> probably, but that happens to be a fundamental flaw in plank
<bluesabre> so, workaround
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> well you could actually submit a bugreport and we could poke the elementary folks to get it fixed
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> or is there already one?
<bluesabre> I might do that, haven't checked
<ochosi> i mean after all that'll affect elementary users too
<bluesabre> it's probably not a major issue...
<bluesabre> but annoying to be sure
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> ochosi: interestingly, the headerbar looks way worse in elementary (before and after at same link) https://imgur.com/haqXloA,AGooMLD#0
<ochosi> how do other elementary apps use headerbars?
<ochosi> dont they use granite in some way or something?
<bluesabre> of course
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> also, their colored icons don't really look nice there...
<ochosi> and the gtkmenubuttons position is awkward
<bluesabre> vs scratch https://imgur.com/HLFmrIP
<bluesabre> looks like they use bigger icons and more spacing... so I'd probably be better off comparing gnome apps in adwaita
<bluesabre> I'll play with that a bit later
<ochosi> yeah, large toolbar icons
<ochosi> which is more consistent with current toolbars
<ochosi> but creates a mess with other headerbar apps
<ochosi> ideally try to install some app that also uses a headerbar without granite
<ochosi> just to see how that looks in elementary
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> late
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: one more thing to improve in menulibre would be keyboard navigation
<ochosi> and i guess i really really have to improve the focus styles in greybird's gtk3 theme
<ochosi> i really don't like how you can't see what's selected sometimes
<ochosi> k, much better already now
<ochosi> \o/ i can define the window controls for CSD in the theme
<ochosi> finally found out how that one really works
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-08-02
<micahg> ochosi: Unit193: yes, please, work item for what I need to take care of
<Unit193> I had a paste somewhere, did that look more orless OK?
<micahg> didn't read all of backscroll yet
<jarnos> Where does the 1GB iso limit come from? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<cjbayliss> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1050726
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1050726 in kubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Precise) "12.04.1 CD image is too big" [High,Confirmed]
<cjbayliss> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1289259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1289259 in Ubuntu CD Images "Invalid "oversized image" on the website" [Undecided,New]
<cjbayliss> jarnos: ^
<jarnos> cjbayliss, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ claims it is too big for 1GB USB stick. But why such an arbitrary limit? Do they even sell 1GB USB sticks anymore?
<MethylatorX> Hello
<MethylatorX> anyone here would answer my question regarding compiz and emerald ?
<MethylatorX> all seems dead here
<cjbayliss> jarnos: I have no idea. But I here that those bugs a meant to be the reason. https://www.google.com.au/#q=ubuntu+This+image+is+oversized
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010606.html
<flocculant> that's the last image size discussion - where things like cdimage say something is oversized they can be more or less ignored
<flocculant> it'll be as small as it can be made given what gets seeded
<flocculant> MethylatorX: this is -dev channel - as we don't do neither compiz nor emerald - you might get help in #xubuntu from people who might use it 
<cjbayliss> very interesting email thread indeed. I think the Xubuntu Core image solves the problem though. I live in .au and we do have a bit of a problem with a slow internet connection, so I am thankful when projects offer a smaller iamge.
<flocculant> yea - that's understandable
<MethylatorX> oh ok thanks flo
<Unit193> cjbayliss: Not precisely, as you'd have to know what all you want.  So if you have a 3G ISO that you don't feel you can download, you have a 600M that can easily be too barren for the 'general public', thus causing a lot of questions.
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> bluesabre: yummy update for greybird's CSD theming
<ochosi> just pushed that ^
<ochosi> should be a nice motivation for your new menulibre releas
<ochosi> humm, and actually it seems that symbolic icons there have the advantage of being dimmed. i guess i can look into dimming normal icons too though...
<ochosi> (i mean when the window is not focused)
<ochosi> (right, actually that doesnt seem all-too hard)
<cjbayliss> Unit193: yeah, good point.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-01
<Unit193> branch nick: platform.yakkety
<Unit193> timestamp: Sun 2016-07-31 23:13:06 +0200
<Unit193> message: standard: add nplan (foundations-y-network-yaml)
<akxwi-dave> Morning guys..  Done a quick run thry of todays Iso, and made a list of what does and doesn't look right with the possible GTK change.. link to doc here.. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Z6rf5HqQbNvKv19euG6DCaqrOxz5-nzXvZaqGmcorwI
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: there was talk after you'd gone re that gtk stuff - waiting on an upload of new theme
<flocculant> ignore theme stuff for the time being
<akxwi-dave> cheers read thru the irc logs and thought that  hence the list of what shows ok and not for those doing the themes.. if it helps them
<flocculant> well it'll certainly help us - we know which we need to check :)
<knome> pleia2, ping - let's keep the mail that is in the moderation queue for -contacts there for the moment
<knome> pleia2, i have a potential proposal related to mails like that...
<knome> pleia2, (will send information on that to the -devel list soon)
<knome> pleia2, done.
<knome> pleia2, the reason i don't want to lose that email is their email address, if we decide to go on with what i proposed on the ML
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-02
<pleia2> knome: ok, I'm away from home this week anyway, limited time
<Unit193> flocculant: How did the x-d-s/systemd/dbus-user-session stuff go?
<knome> pleia2, sure, np, just that you don't feel the rush to go moderate with your limited time ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: well - I crashed out and had to grab systemd from -proposed to get it to work the other morning
<flocculant> no desktop - no nothing
<flocculant> but since then it's been fine
<flocculant> I'd guess as long as you've got systemd 231 it should be ok
<flocculant> obviously I had x-d-s from ppa as well
<flocculant> fwiw latest x-d-s installed ok too
<flocculant> so many vm's running I've confused myself - not sure which is a resize or manual test \o/
<knome> lol
<flocculant> bluesabre: so we've got smoketests done for 14.04.5 twice mostly, I'll wait see if we get any from other people before marking them
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi, Unit193: https://twitter.com/BitSortierer/status/760431546948001792
<ochosi> without having tested it, sounds reasonable if true
<knome> i have no idea either, just forwarding
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/NVCj1m6bcqCfiqbb4Syu
 * knome shrugs :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Indicators are broken actually.
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> knome: indeed, sounds reasonable
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-03
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-July/039465.html in case you didn't see.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for the link
<flocculant> Unit193: perhaps that's why the dropbox one is failing then *shrug*
<Unit193> nm-applet too?
<flocculant> Unit193: that appears to be there 
<Unit193> Hmm.  Didn't in VM, not updating yet on real. :P
<flocculant> I don't actually have a use for it so don't fiddle with it ever
<flocculant> gtk320 looks ok on install now - still fubar locally for some reason ?
<flocculant> guessing difference between real and ppa there :)
<astraljava> Wonder if a version update made it better.
<astraljava> Oops, sorry wrong channel.
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: didn't get time to check much but gtk320 looks ok on installs now - at least catfish and menulibre do 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: might be in a rush tomorrow to get some trusty smoketests done as well - respin for xorg/nvidia implosions apparently
<akxwi-dave> flocc
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, no probs
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, I am assuming that they will show ok in tomorrows ISO's?  In todays they still look bad..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: not sure wth is going on then - because today's iso looks ok here - perhaps ok on kvm *shrug*
<akxwi-dave> i've done one on Vbox and the other on Vmware...  will do it tonight on Real.. also will try to get the .5 respin on real as well.. thats due tomorrow aint it.. if so I can rush a real thru at around 7pm on thurs if needed#
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: late thurs will be too late 
<flocculant> I'm not that panicked by trusty anyway tbh
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> any bugs that there are won't be ours 
<flocculant> also looking at -release respins should start soonish - hopefully there'll be one this evening - I can beat a hardware install out tonight with luck
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: also ... /join #ubuntu-release ;)
<akxwi-dave> already there.. :-)
<flocculant> didn't see you - sorry :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: so are you saying you still see oddities on yak from gtk3.20?
<akxwi-dave> yep, can grab a screenie if you need..
<flocculant> no need - I'll boot on hardware then :)
<akxwi-dave> kk.. i'll also do a boot tonight on a lappie, one has Nvidia other AMD 
<flocculant> ok - well I'm always nvidia
<flocculant> or intel if I'm brave
<akxwi-dave> i used to be AMD desktop and Nvidia Laptop.. But bought a GTX960 for the desktop.. and that lappy I repaired has AMD in now
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, started on the idiots guide for testing.. http://imgur.com/S8yfqX5
<flocculant> nice one akxwi-dave :)
<flocculant> that's the sort of thing I wanted to do - but got put off because hardly anyone reporting ;)
<akxwi-dave> if we can make it easier for people to do then all we can do is try
<flocculant> we can have a chat with knome - but might be useful to have that wikified - we can do that at 'our' wiki rather than ubuntu one too if we think that's best
<flocculant> chat with knome would be about our wiki or ubuntu one ofc
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: so if you boot the xenial iso instead of a yak one - everything looks fine ...
<akxwi-dave> yep still have a xenial VM installed at the moment.. I'll get you a side by side
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: no need :)
<flocculant> the yak iso is still yuk not yak \o/
<akxwi-dave> lol
<akxwi-dave> also just noticed that on Yak it dont let me resize em
<akxwi-dave> http://imgur.com/S8yfqX5
<akxwi-dave> http://imgur.com/tDIINPu
<akxwi-dave> ignore first one
<akxwi-dave> http://imgur.com/OCpb3jN
<akxwi-dave> http://imgur.com/xxnbbwd
<knome> flocculant, (too bad dave left, but) my gut feeling is "contributor docs", but sure, i guess the wiki is fine too
<knome> that said, i should make sure the media upload stuff doesn't look like crap (as it does now)
<flocculant> knome: not sure about loads of images in cont docs tbh
<knome> if the idiots (not my choice of word) will not understand it without, then i think we should have images...
<knome> there are two things to that:
<knome> 1) i think everybody should understand most things without images, as long as they are instructed well (and the UI lets them find stuff)
<knome> 2) the UI should be easy enough that those idiots (again not my word) can find the information in it without too much holding hands (and/or images)
<knome> but if we feel like images are needed, then sure, they can be in the contributor docs as well
<flocculant> trouble with docs is if we need a quick change to image - not happening there is it
<knome> the contributor docs are only online, so it's pretty swift.
<flocculant> no it's not ;)
<knome> ATM we have at least me an pleia2 who have access to the server, and Unit193 too
<knome> (i think...)
<flocculant> and on wiki - it can be changed without worrying about finding someone
<knome> sure...
<knome> though ultimately, i prefer how well the docs are (always) formatted, how easy it is to make a PDF version of them, how easy it is to translate them, etc. over the wiki
<knome> and i think we should bang the contributor docs much more in our marketing that we are doing now (and prefer it over the wiki)
<knome> yes, it's more maintenance (but tbh, at this point, not too much)
<flocculant> well - in a couple of months all pretty moot
<knome> why so?
<flocculant> akwxi willl be qa lead :p
<knome> so why is content created at that point moot?
<flocculant> where
<knome> anywhere?
<knome> my main idea with everything we set up is that it can be passed on to new leaders and contributors without having to explain too much stuff
<knome> so why would something be useless if a leader changes?
<knome> (and isn't dave the one who's working on the guide anyway)
<flocculant> because you might be able to browbeat dave into putting that on docs - woun't work with me :)
<knome> i'm not going to say what you can or can't do
<knome> so please don't take this as such
<flocculant> I'm not
<knome> i'm just giving my opinion as you were from my POV asking it
<flocculant> actually if you read what I said - the choice was our wiki or the ubuntu one :)
<knome> aha.
<knome> well... i guess i don't mind choices too much, just think what's the best :P
<knome> being limited to those choices, then i'd say the question is if it's generic enough to be appropriate for all flavors (ubuntu wiki) or specific enough to be useful only for xubuntu people (our wiki)
<knome> and if the former, then i'd recommend being in touch with other flavor people *once you have the content ready on the wiki* to see if they want to add something, and to let them let their people know about the page(s)
<flocculant> obviously I don't have a problem with the qa docs pages - I wrote what we have, and that is probably qty wise the same as the rest put together :)
<knome> indeed
<flocculant> anyway - bit midweekish now - might bbl
<knome> there's a few things that should be put on the docs for website for example, but that's not high priority (as it's pretty clear on LP already)
<knome> yeah, good night if not :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: 32 bit trusty done again
<knome> tv time
<Unit193> knome: Yep, though I'm just a backup.
<knome> Unit193, sure, i was mostly pointing out that we DO HAVE the backups in case either me or pleia2 isn't around.
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy, bluesabre.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 
<knome> oi.
<flocculant> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome 
<bluesabre> key flocculant 
<bluesabre> How's it going?
<flocculant> a bit keyed up 
<flocculant> :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: set meeting for week friday at 2000 utc - just waiting on one response to the council mail - almost a full house :)
<bluesabre> woo!
<knome> so almost three of a kind and a pair?
<bluesabre> probably can't make that, but let's see what happens then
<knome> i probably can
<knome> (and who cares of bluesabre anyway)
<bluesabre> precisely
<knome> bluesabre, i'm just kidding, i love you
<knome> (not in the wrong way)
 * bluesabre knows its all about the code
<knome> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-04
<tgm4883> I'd like to float a rather interesting idea that Infinity mentioned today. What are people's thoughts on a somewhat of a super xfce ISO that at the end of ubiquity would have package selection that would either install, xubuntu, mythbuntu, or ubuntu studio?
<Unit193> In addition to, or replacement of the current ISO?
<tgm4883> Unit193: your call. This stems from Mythbuntu dropping ISOs completely
<tgm4883> Basically, Mythbuntu (me) would just be piggy backing off of your ISO at that point. If not, the Mythbuntu ISO will cease to exist after the 16.04 point releases
<Unit193> I'd like to know what technically it'd be, but wouldn't want to replace the main ISO with something likely more than twice as big.  And yeah, you told me about that, condolecnces again.
<tgm4883> I haven't discusses with -studio yet, Infinity just brought them up as well
<Unit193> tgm4883: I mean right now it uses squashfs as the system then just decompresses that and runs a few postinst scripts.  Having 3 squashed systems on there would be a huge waste of space, downloading everything then installing like the Debian installer is a bit slow and not really an option for offline.  If it were basically the current setup, with an option to install one of the other tasks on top, 
<Unit193> that'd be kind of handy but would mean the other tasks basically get stuck with what we choose so Myth would get Libreoffice, which I'm sure you wouldn't want.
<Unit193> (Of course, keep in mind I'm simply one person here.)
<tgm4883> Unit193: hmm, could we only offer the package selection if an internet connection is present and download the packages from the internet?
<knome> is there any reason mythbuntu doesn't just create metapackages that one can install on top of "any" system?
<tgm4883> knome: we have that currently
<Unit193> tgm4883: That seems somewhat like the last option.
<knome> tgm4883, that AND isos? why not just drop the ISOs?
<tgm4883> knome: well we are dropping the ISOs
<tgm4883> knome: I'm likely just to point people at xubuntu-core
<knome> fwiw, from my POV, you are completely free to peruse xubuntu's ISOs and configuration
<knome> but i agree with Unit193 that a "shared" ISO doesn't sound very exciting for us
<knome> myth/studio could have better synergy together
<knome> i know the studio folks discussed going DE-agnostic at some point
<knome> but i have no idea of the current status
<Unit193> Well the last option certainly doesn't seem ideal for them, but gives Myth a little easier installation and a few advantages.
<knome> they've had their leaders changed lately as well
<Unit193> (US is still very tied to Xfce at the moment.)
<knome> technically yes
<knome> but on planning, no idea
<knome> maybe their new leader doesn't have the same motivation to move away from xfce
<knome> well, not really "away", but...
<knome> if they keep on creating ISOs, they'll have to have a default DE anyway
<knome> whether one that is selected or installed by default.
<knome> by selected i mean they could do further mods to the installer and let their users select their DE during installation
<knome> but they likely wouldn't include them all on the ISO anyway
<Unit193> tgm4883: You still plan on keeping what remains of Myth updated?  Basically, wouldn't want to get caught up maintaining more and having to do additional QA.  Don't get me wrong, not against the idea at the core, just wondering some details.
<knome> yeah, QA...
<tgm4883> Unit193: we'd keep mythtv and mythbuntu-control-centre updated, which is all of our packages that we really care about
<tgm4883> Unit193: we'd drop packages like mythbuntu-desktop, which is our metapackage and would be pointless to keep
<knome> tgm4883, if you install the myth packages on top of the ubuntu desktop, what happens?
<tgm4883> knome: it works, but you've got unity
<knome> theoretically, what's wrong with that?
<tgm4883> Probably nothing anymore. In the past there were some fullscreen issues, but that's been worked out
<Unit193> knome: Problem with that, it's Unity, not Xfce!
 * Unit193 is fond of Xfce.
 * bluesabre <3 Xfce
<knome> Unit193 fondue Xfce.
<knome> tgm4883, so what if you install mythtv on top of the kubuntu desktop?
<knome> does it work but you have the kde desktop?
<Unit193> Hmm.  Where's their autostart?
<tgm4883> knome: I would assume so. I've not tried the kde desktop
<Unit193> Sounds like we found another agenda item.
<knome> Unit193, yeah.
<knome> tgm4883, the reason i'm asking these questions is to determine how tied to xfce myth really is
<knome> tgm4883, the simple answer is: way less than studio
<Unit193> Yeep.
<tgm4883> yea we're not really tied to anything
<Unit193> But Xfce is an ideal base, full fledged yet stays out of the way.
<knome> tbh, if i was you, i'd avoid any ISO like a plague as it only means QA
<knome> ..in the best way possible
<tgm4883> Yea, Ideally I'd like to just point people at snap packages and say install on whatever you want
<knome> why wouldn't you just do that?
<tgm4883> well I got to get snap packages working first
<knome> heh, sure.
<knome> btw, since we're talking about mythbuntu...
<knome> tgm4883, https://github.com/knomepasi/ubuntu-community-wordpress-theme
<knome> tgm4883, if you are interested in an easy website facelift
<knome> tgm4883, it's a theme that somewhat imitates ubuntu.com, but you can customize it with your own logos and colors
<tgm4883> knome: easy? I'd have to setup a web server
<knome> well, you have mythbuntu.org somewhere already
<tgm4883> knome: that currently resides in google sites
<knome> right.
<knome> well, canonical IS can host your website
<knome> *whistles*
<tgm4883> Who handles updates at that point?
<tgm4883> os/security
<knome> the IS.
<knome> you only have to care about your content
<tgm4883> hmm
<knome> the downside is that sometimes the IS isn't the fastest team to reply
<knome> including setting up things for the first time...
<knome> i've got to the point where i get my xubuntu.org requests done in a few days of time, pretty much always
<knome> it's probably many factors...
<knome> you don't really need the IS though unless you want to change files
<knome> and with that theme, you basically wouldn't need to
<knome> anyway, it's past 4am, need to go to bed
<knome> be in touch with me if you want to talk more about it or start setting up :)
<knome> -->
<knome> akxwi-dave, let's take it here :)
<akxwi-dave> just reading the convo you had woith flocculant last night.. The Idea behind the guide I am doing with the images, is to help those who have never tested before and wnat to get involved,,
<akxwi-dave> I have found over the past 30 years on IT that if you have a full step by step guide for the first time anyone tries something new like this, it gives them a bit aof confidence, when they can see what they ae doing actually look like what someone else has done, that knows what to look for
<akxwi-dave> Didn't think you were
<akxwi-dave> just wanted to let you know My reasoning#
<knome> yup
<knome> we were mostly talking about the place where we'd want to publish it
<akxwi-dave> :-)  
<knome> so do you think it would be generally useful for all flavors?
<akxwi-dave> hehehe.. I actually didn't think about that when I originally started.
<akxwi-dave> It could be yes..
<knome> no problems
<knome> i mean if it can, then let's not put it in our wiki
<knome> because that's not the place people look at
<knome> at least all people ;)
<akxwi-dave> I originally thought about just having it as something I could just email out to people who wanted to give testing a go..
<knome> that works as well i guess
<knome> though it would be cool if it was available at all times online
<knome> and since we have all the bells and whistles...
<akxwi-dave> But the same Idea would be useful for all flavours, just amened for the indvidual tests
<akxwi-dave> yep.. could always stick a dwnload link online
<knome> yeah, if it's a pdf/doc file, we can host it on static.xubuntu.org
<akxwi-dave> my other original thinking behind it was to have it in 3 parts, Priority, Mandatory and Rune Once (dependant on size). I  know we are supposed to save the planet etc and cut down on printed stuff, but to be honest it really helps if you have something printed to refer too as you step through it. (well it did for me :-) ) but that could just be me getting older
<knome> lol
<knome> well, anybody can print that pdf/doc for sure
<akxwi-dave> true..
<akxwi-dave> Even if it brings just one other regular tester into the fold.. :-)
<knome> indeed
<knome> so what's your preferred format?
<knome> do you even want to put it in a wiki?
<knome> or rather maintain a document?
<knome> or put it in docbook and in the contributor docs?
<akxwi-dave> all have merits... 
<knome> i know
<knome> that's why i'm asking you, as you are the one doing the biggest work
<akxwi-dave> let me think about it.. it could just come down to how big it all ends up..
<knome> sure
<knome> no rush
<knome> once you know and if you need help with anything, just poke me
<akxwi-dave> ;-) will do..
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - what's going on with the gtk3.20 theme thing - last I heard last week was some upload
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: will try to get that uploaded tonight
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-05
<flocculant> someone tell Dave no iso's built overnight as cron was off for trusty - if he wants the practice he can trigger rebuild from the tracker
<flocculant> thanks whoever tell's him :)
<Unit193> akxwi-dave: someone tell Dave no iso's built overnight as cron was off for trusty - if he wants the practice he can trigger rebuild from the  tracker
<akxwi-dave> cheers.. just read that on log's..  :-)
<Unit193> Hah, a'ighty!
<akxwi-dave> assuming log in as xubuntu-release team and select request a rebuild for all 3.. (core, 32 and 54)
<akxwi-dave> or just 32 and 64
<Unit193> The latter.
<akxwi-dave> cheers mate
<akxwi-dave> rebuilds triggered
<bluesabre> flocculant: good news, I reinstalled xenial and my laptop remembered it had intel graphics... so I can try to resolve the cursor bug (which just happened to me) :D
<knome> heh
<flocculant> bluesabre: lol
<flocculant> Unit193: re indicators - they appear to work for me - except mucking about with the dropbox thing
<flocculant> but I fixed that now
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, requested the rebuilds but the amd64 of yak, diesn't seem to want ot rebuild.. seems stuck requested it be cancelled but nothing seems to be happening
<flocculant> 55 seconds it was uploading build
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> actually ignore that
<akxwi-dave> just noticed it build
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> should propogate to tracker soonish
<akxwi-dave>  "learn patience young padawan"...
<flocculant> ha ha 
<akxwi-dave> bbl lunch
<flocculant> if I don't see you later - have a good week off :)
<knome> pleia2, any reason not to move to HTTPS-by-default with xubuntu.org? stuff has been working, and the new xubuntu.com is redirecting there already
<knome> pleia2, so either we ask that to redirect to non-HTTPS, or everything (else) to redirect to HTTPS
<pleia2> knome: no reason that I can think of
<knome> pleia2, ok, i'll do a request for that at some point as well then
<knome> pleia2, ssl request stuff done
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> flocculant: OK, found out at least part of the reason they weren't showing. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-06
<ochosi> flocculant, bluesabre: sorry was mostly afk these last days, but the plan was that i do a greybird release and then we get an upload
<bluesabre> ochosi: oh good, I hadn't started poking it yet
<bluesabre> ochosi: eta on the release?
<ochosi> bluesabre: too tired to look at it tonight, but i think i can get it done by tomorr
<ochosi> ow
<bluesabre> ochosi: np :)
<ochosi> you can get notifyd 0.3.0 packaged for us meanwhile ;)
<bluesabre> possibly
<bluesabre> or try to knock the exo release out
<bluesabre> been goofing off today, packaged up some fonts https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/fonts :)
<ochosi> wth is powerline?
<ochosi> i wonder whether i could get used to fira code
<ochosi> hmpf, doesn't work in xfce4-terminal anyway..
<ochosi> guess it must be libvte if gnome-terminal also doesn't work
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> powerline is just a fancy terminal/vim prompt
<bluesabre> http://imgur.com/a/apjnm
<bluesabre> https://github.com/powerline/powerline
<ochosi> oh, a-ha
<ochosi> fancy
<ochosi> a bit too fancy for me maybe :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: We's got an email, btw.
<bluesabre> "theme split done in Ubuntu/Debian"?
<Unit193> Yeeeep.
<bluesabre> indeed
#xubuntu-devel 2016-08-07
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, I'm thinking we do one more "shimmer-themes" package where it just becomes a metapackage and drop all the source packages, so there is a graceful transition, and then add greybird-gtk-theme and numix-gtk-theme to the task/packageset and the others to supported
<bluesabre> seem fairly reasonable?
<Unit193> Don't all the packages already exist and are already installed?
<bluesabre> right, but in the case of a rebuild, wouldn't the existing shimmer-themes fail?
<bluesabre> to upload
<bluesabre> or would the shimmer-themes package simply not be needed anymore, even for upgrades?
<bluesabre> bed time, back tomorrow
<Unit193> See shimmer-themes (2.1.3) yakkety; urgency=medium
<bluesabre> Unit193: wow, I'm just completely out of the loop these days :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: simplest way to make sure we can still upload (since supported seed is buggy) https://paste.ubuntu.com/22566098/
<bluesabre> I suppose adding shimmer-themes into supported would be wise as well
<flocculant> knome: votes all done now - nothing to stop us changing contr docs :)
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<bluesabre> how are you today?
<flocculant> pretty good thanks - had a chilled weekend - you>]
<flocculant> ?
<flocculant> even 
<flocculant> bluesabre: nothing to stop nominations for council now - not sure how long to let that go on - perhaps a fortnight
<bluesabre> pretty good, I've been productive lately for a change
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> currently packaging the new exo for ochosi
<flocculant> I saw the xfce mail for that
<bluesabre> gtk3 support for exo, required for porting xfce4-settings and probably others
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> not long now till the freezes start happening
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> getting myself into gear
<flocculant> I'm pedalling backwards so I'm at a complete stop mid October :D
<bluesabre> 11 days in fact for feature freeze :D
<flocculant> yea - was just looking
<bluesabre> building exo packages takes way too long just to find out I messed up somewhere
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> got a package that seems to work, sent to ochosi for testing (and hopefully not breaking his system)
<ochosi> bluesabre: seems i can compile it
<ochosi> and the dialogs you ported seem to work
<ochosi> manager and display was still missing, correct?
<ochosi> nice work
<knome> flocculant, ack
<knome> flocculant, were there some typo fixes we needed that are not in the branch?
<knome> pleia2: i've been starting to think that we could create different projects for different website branches
<knome> pleia2, there isn't so much overlap as with docs
<knome> flocculant, branch merged, if there were any typos, we can merge them without voting
<pleia2> knome: it would allow us more grandual control over who has access, fine by me
<flocculant> knome: hadn't looked to be honest
<flocculant> thanks for merging - when will it actually get updated though?
<flocculant> I assume you meant other bits of contributor and not that specific change :)
<knome> i'll update web today
<knome> flocculant, should be updated
<bluesabre> ochosi: I believe manager is mostly ported, and display is not started
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll try to get it moved to git.xfce today
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<knome> np.
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean manager is ported and pushed?
<ochosi> when i tried it, it looked suspiciously gtk2 :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-settings-gtk3/commit/9fff5000548ed99a4bf65f9862e50bd201552c0f
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> hm, maybe i was on the wrong branch the
<ochosi> n
<ochosi> or greybird just looks too consistent...
<ochosi> hm, no, definitely gtk2 here
<ochosi> i didn't install it though, just launched it directly
<ochosi> that worked with all the other dialogs
<ochosi> maybe the settings manager is different
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, lemme know what i'm doing wrong here
<ochosi> oh weird
<ochosi> somehow my local branch is still behind your master :/
<bluesabre> ochosi: there's a bug that helps make it obvious, the gtk3 version can't be resized down below the current number of columns
<ochosi> ok yuck, now i have the gtk3 version :)
<ochosi> the theming is also a bit broken
<bluesabre> very possibly a bug in new exo, but got too busy to further investigate back then
<bluesabre> and yeah
<ochosi> but i guess i could fix that one
<bluesabre> https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-settings-gtk3/commit/9fff5000548ed99a4bf65f9862e50bd201552c0f#diff-a562ecdffc68f7f44d1e52f9f0e984f5L318
<bluesabre> https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-settings-gtk3/commit/9fff5000548ed99a4bf65f9862e50bd201552c0f#diff-a562ecdffc68f7f44d1e52f9f0e984f5L374
<ochosi> oh yuck
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> you can do that a lot easier i think
<bluesabre> maybe in a way that works too
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> on it
<ochosi> almost there...
<ochosi> odd
<ochosi> maybe you can enlighten me: http://i.imgur.com/8cfaqpp.png
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ochosi> somehow what i'm doing is affecting the whole dialog
<ochosi> not just the part i'm interested in
<ochosi> oh haha
<ochosi> forget it..
<ochosi> there you go: http://i.imgur.com/EmX5Vnm.png
<ochosi> the resizing problem is for you :)
<ochosi> guess this one also needs a fix: http://i.imgur.com/WQrobxg.png
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> heya knome 
<knome> watched the olympics a lot so far?
<ochosi> not at all
<bluesabre> ochosi: neat
<ochosi> bluesabre: so where do you want me to put the patch?
<ochosi> or are you pushing to git.xfce anyway, then i'll just push it there
<bluesabre> ochosi: hold on to it, it will force me to push it sooner
<ochosi> push it!
<bluesabre> Unit193: going to upload my new exo package to the gtk3 ppa... I'm ready and willing to work on the 4ui package that you got together and we can decide a direction for it and the glade issue
<Unit193> bluesabre: OK.
<bluesabre> ohai Unit193 
<Unit193> Hallo.
<bluesabre> you have a few pings :)
<bluesabre> all from me bugging you
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> I got one.
<bluesabre> Unit193: opinion on https://paste.ubuntu.com/22566098/ (+shimmer-themes in supported)
<bluesabre> Unit193: and libxfce4ui
<Unit193> Ooooh right I was supposed to click that link.  And yes, sounds good.
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Though you could just downright properly wrap it.
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre> open to suggestions :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: You good now? :3
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-31
<bluesabre> It works! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moHN4dkRQIc&feature=youtu.be :D
<bluesabre> But the code is ugly, so it will be at least another day before I push it somewhere
<flocculant> bluesabre: that's awesome :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: nnnice!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-01
<flocculant> 16.04 point release week if anyone has 15 minutes to spare
<ochosi> flocculant: what's to do?
<flocculant> ochosi: pretty much all we need do is check we install, any bugs in apps we should be aware of anyway
<flocculant> done 1 set for 64 bit - as is normal 32 bit looks unloved :p
<flocculant> but I only shouted this evening anyway
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-02
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r636 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<bluesabre> Pushed my work so far on xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin to a branch, https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
<bluesabre> Still doing quite a bit of work on it, but should be fun to test now
<bluesabre> It doesn't yet remember known players, so only players that are currently running will be displayed
<flocculant> will try and play iwth that then
<bluesabre> And I'll take a stab at 16.04 tonight, had to babysit all night last night
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke - if you do any - just install tests not too bothered about the others
<ochosi> bluesabre: you're version of pulseaudioplugin is already awesome!
<ochosi> not even sure remembering apps is so important
<GridCube> *your
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-03
<Unit193> Yeah, don't know why one would need another way to launch them.  And what happens when you uninstall it? :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: it checks for the desktop files, so they would just disappear
<Unit193> While I haven't tried it yet, nice!  And yeah, that seems extra to me. :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: would you think that merging the "mute" checkbox line into the icon on the left would not be discoverable enough?
<ochosi> bluesabre: or maybe it's just the titles that make the rows really tall
<bluesabre> ochosi: I don't think it looks bad as is, but the titles could be removed and the icon and scale could share the same line
<flocculant> 16.04.3 marked ready
<ochosi> bluesabre: sorry, that came out wrong then. it *really* *doesnt* look *bad* =)
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> evening flocculant 
 * ochosi is almost on his way out again ;)
<ochosi> prepping for holidays
<flocculant> nice
<flocculant> bluesabre: simple question - how do I force your pa plugin on to panel - not sure I have yours or the 'normal' one
<ochosi> flocculant: you need the correct arguments for ./autogen.sh
<ochosi> this is a good default: https://github.com/schuellerf/xfce-test/blob/master/Dockerfile#L42
<ochosi> you can also try to check it out in the docker container
<flocculant> never managed to get that docker thing to do anything but be black lol 
<ali1234> same
<flocculant> hi ali1234 
<ali1234> i didn't try very hard though
<flocculant> well yea same
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks re L42
<flocculant> and I'm guessing that worked - not got enormous icon now either 
<flocculant> bluesabre: just fyi - I see cantata (mpd front end) in your pa plugin
<flocculant> but strangely I do not see parole
<flocculant> bluesabre: a usability thought - method to switch off volume(s) eg personally I would never use the audio input so would disable that
<ochosi> flocculant: i also don't see parole, but tbh it also doesn't show in indicator-sound anymore, so something must be broken in the mpris2 plugin
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<knome> bluesabre, the breaker of things
<bluesabre> ochosi: fun!
<bluesabre> flocculant: so, muting players individually?
<bluesabre> and I know nothing about cantana, suppose I'll take a peek at that
<bluesabre> any reason it should not show as a player?
<bluesabre> flocculant: and re volume, you're talking about enabling or disabling the input/output channels, right?
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack to disabling input channel at least :D
<flocculant> also maybe open player if you click on it in plugin - assuming it's minimised
<flocculant> cantata is just yet another front end for mpd
<flocculant> https://github.com/CDrummond/cantata - but in repos too
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-04
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, was just confused by "bluesabre: just fyi - I see cantata (mpd front end) in your pa plugin", made it sound like that was surprising
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: here's a thing - doesn't matter if mpd is pulse or alsa - it still shows up
<flocculant> that said regardless of that play/pause works ok - back/forwards doesn't
<flocculant> bluesabre: should clarify the pulse/alsa comment - cantata (and any mpd frontend I tried) never showed up in the normal sound indicator
<flocculant> with the xfce sound one - cantate doesn't show up
<flocculant> in your one it does - regardless of me setting mpd output to alsa, which is the norm here
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> flocculant: gotcha! Thanks for the clarification, I knew none of that.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-05
<flocculant> bluesabre: I git pulled and rebuilt - forwards and backwards it goes 
<flocculant> I can almost ditch the mpd plugin as I don't much use any of the 'extra' options there
<flocculant> so \o/ for one less thing on panel
<bluesabre> flocculant: awesome :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: indeed it is 
<bluesabre> Pushed a fix for Parole missing... assuming I did Parole's reverse domain name launcher correctly, the pa plugin should show some players that indicator-sound misses
<flocculant> oh rightio - I'll check that out then :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm kind of assuming we'll be liking this for 18.04?
<flocculant> if app indicators are 'going' that means we have indicator for messaging and sound only ? If I read things right 
<flocculant> can confirm that works too 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, I think if we can stabilize this, we'll prefer it to indicator-sound
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> didn't like parole being quit then :p
<bluesabre> I think we're considering the statusnotifier plugin for app indicators, not sure what plans we have for messaging
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, it's a bit crashy at times :D
<bluesabre> really hard to debug a panel plugin
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> ok - as long as you're aware of that :p
<bluesabre> I've had it kill other panel applets a few times
<bluesabre> For a while I ran with a single panel plugin, :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> well I've got the crash report if it helps at all
<bluesabre> I think I've tracked it down
<bluesabre> But folks are waking up around here now, so fixes later :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - and did you know it remembers now?
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed! :)
<flocculant> cool - so do I now lol
<flocculant> anyway have a good weekend
<bluesabre> you too flocculant 
<flocculant> away tomorrow till Monday evening
<bluesabre> flocculant: crash on player exit should be fixed now
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack - I'll grab latest now - check it out etc etc
<flocculant> then come back with some issue the other  7,523,292,963 of us never find :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> latest commit adds showing the player window if hidden and launching if its not running
<bluesabre> though, launching crashes the plugin :\
<knome> heh
<knome> almost there then, eh? ;)
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> just bug fixing and code cleanup now
<flocculant> not crashing here :)
<flocculant> and nice :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: If we're going with statusnotifier, we need to get it in ASAP.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-08-06
<Unit193> bluesabre: New policy, https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/08/msg00003.html
<ali1234> nvm i think i found it
<bluesabre> Unit193: won't be moving to statusnotifier without an indicator-sound replacement
<Unit193> Why not?  But OK..
<bluesabre> volume controls are important... mpris control is handy
<bluesabre> but... I might have the mpris stuff ready today
<bluesabre> tracking one more crash and another bug
<Unit193> You know you can use sn-plug and indicator-sound, right?
<bluesabre> oh?
<bluesabre> indicator-messages as well?
<Unit193> It's -application you can't use with sn-plugin.
<bluesabre> so, things that use libappindicat*?
<Unit193> You forgot sni-qt. :>
<Unit193> (But yes.)
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> how do I add -sound to it?
<Unit193> You use xfce4-indicator-plugin.
<bluesabre> ok, so sn grabs them first, and anything remaining goes to the indicator plugin?
<Unit193> indicator-plugin displays a different type.  -application is what sn-plugin is.
<bluesabre> I think I'm confused now, but I see that having both active I don't have double indicators
<Unit193> Just make sure -application isn't running, sn-plugin is a bit more configurable than indicator-application (basically because you can only configure xfce4-indicator-plugin, which "displays" indicator-application.)
<bluesabre> suppose we should start getting this into debian/ubuntu then
<bluesabre> It's interesting seeing how different players implement mpris differently
<bluesabre> and how some are very broken in different ways
<Unit193> I mean, I did push it to pkg-xfce, just waiting now...We should push to Ubuntu otherwise though.
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> Well, I mean if we're going to go with it, or offer it as an option.
<bluesabre> I think it would be good to have
<bluesabre> looks like the symbolic prev/play/next icons don't work so well with greybird
<Unit193> But the real question, do they work in Numix? :P
<bluesabre> yep
<bluesabre> look really nice with Adwaita and Arc
<Unit193> Meh.
<ninetls> bluesabre: xfce4-indicator-plugin shows ubuntu indicator, such as indicator-application, indicator-sound, indicator-messages
<ninetls> consider them as "subplugins" for panel
<ninetls> sn-plugin is replacement for indicator-application "subplugin"
<ninetls> while your patched pa-plugin will be replacement for indicator-sound "subplugin"
<bluesabre> ninetls: gotcha, thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-30
<xubuntu02w> Hi. is xubuntu dropping support for i386 cpu in the next releases?
<Unit193> Anyone want to try new xfwm?
<Spass> Unit193, I could test it on my 18.10 install, yes
<flocculant> Unit193: yea why not :)
<knome> Slesa, could you please try to fix your connection? you are causing a lot of quit/join mess on the channel...
<flocculant> bluesabre: should have done a sweep through 64 bit 16.04 by the time I wander off - pretty sure we should be ok install wise
<knome>  Slesa, please fix your connection or i need to redirect you to ##fix_your_connection
<flocculant> hi knome :)
<knome> flocculant, fix for the EOL releases having links shown committed and waiting on IS action..
<flocculant> ok - that's awesome :)
<flocculant> I assume you saw my comment re it being gone '24 hours' later
<knome> fortunately it was a quick fix...
<knome> nope?
<flocculant> just wait for IS now
<flocculant> knome: ok - well assuming that you didn't go back and remove it - it was gone
<knome> i might have...
<knome> i don't remember
<knome> but
<flocculant> hah
<knome> it's fixed anyway
<flocculant> yup
<knome> there we go
<Unit193> Spass: Should be building now.
<Spass> Unit193, cool, will definitely try it tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-31
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you have debian upload perms for elementary-xfce?
<Unit193> Nope.
<bluesabre> Alrighty
<Unit193> I take it the diffs I provided worked?
<bluesabre> Indeed
<bluesabre> Had to test with a PPA
<bluesabre> apt does things a bit differently than dpkg
<Unit193> apt install ./pkg1 ./pkg2 ./pkg3
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> well, it's tested and confirmed now :D
<bluesabre> so https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/log/?h=cosmic is ready, but elementary-xfce should be updated first so cosmic daily upgrades work
<bluesabre> since we don't yet depend on it, it's not in the packageset
<bluesabre> I can probably get an ubuntu sponsor pretty easily
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Transition xubuntu-artwork for elementary-xfce-icon-theme package @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=8788b9a5f97a49ebbfdc56917d8764d5cbf412d0 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: d/control: Drop versioned elementary-xfce-icon-theme dep, update description for xubuntu-icon-theme @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=4c8ded1d88082e105dc0041cda165c50d1f2d3df (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: We won't have to carry the delta, just don't want to upload to Debian just for this.
<bluesabre> Unit193: sure
<bluesabre> Want me to update salsa with the change?
<bluesabre> Then I'll do the ubuntu-y things
<Unit193> Sure.  You going to cheat and do what I do? :P
<bluesabre> vi; git add -u; git commit -m; git push; ?
<Unit193> '* Pull from Debian UNRLEASED vcs', but usually I do that with Xfce and when I do a lot more than a version bump. :P
<bluesabre> Maybe
<bluesabre> I feel like that moves the sponsorship along more quickly :)
<bluesabre> Ah
<bluesabre> I don't have push to that repo
<Unit193> Got an account?
<bluesabre> Yep
<bluesabre> bluesabre-guest
<bluesabre> woohoo, thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<bluesabre> Alrighty, there's that. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elementary-xfce/+bug/1784523
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1784523 in elementary-xfce (Ubuntu) "Please sponsor elementary-xfce 0.12-1ubuntu1 for package transition" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> thanks again for the help Unit193 
<bluesabre> bed time (and before 11, woohoo!)
<Unit193> Sure thing, thanks for doing it.
<Unit193> flocculant: xfwm4 break on you? :3
<flocculant> Unit193: nope it's fine - because no ppa's probably :D
<Spass_Cosmic> hello from the newest 18.10 with xfwm4 4.13.1
<Spass_Cosmic> I had a problem after first reboot, I saw no desktop and the widows were leaving "a trace" like cascading windows 95 error
<Spass_Cosmic> but now it seems ok
<Spass_Cosmic> anyway, I have a question for you, I'm trying to investigate the bug with blinking elements https://youtu.be/P8NVGl5DqGQ
<Spass_Cosmic> I think that the mouse cursor itself could be an issue here, or to be more precise, the way it's handled in Ubuntu/Xubuntu
<Spass_Cosmic> any ideas how to investigate that? maybe some xorg.conf entry for mouse?
<Spass_Cosmic> s/widows/windows ;)
<bluesabre> Spass_Cosmic: I think I'd also seen somebody mention that it affects mate as well, might be wrong
<Spass_Cosmic> bluesabre, yes, MATE, Kubuntu, GNOME...
<bluesabre> I tried using xev in the upper corners to see if there was some x silliness, but the positioning seems to be 0,0
<Spass_Cosmic> yeah I try to figure that out for a year now :/
<bluesabre> Seems to also affect plank
<Spass_Cosmic> it's really annoying, sometimes when I want to open Whisker menu I have to click twice, because the first click wont register
<bluesabre> So anything with a y coord or 0 is subject
<Spass_Cosmic> yes, Plank is great to test that issue on other DE's
<Spass_Cosmic> yes only on left and top edge, so x=0 or y=0 I suppose
<Spass_Cosmic> I know that I'm not alone with this issue, more users confirmed that on their systems
<Spass_Cosmic> brb
<Spass_Cosmic> hmm, I can't change the cursor theme, I mean "normal" cursor is always a white arrow, all other are changed
<Spass_Cosmic> maybe it's related?
<Spass_Cosmic> I've changed my theme and size in xfce4-mouse-settings but normal white arrow is unchanged
<Spass_Cosmic> ok, nevermind it suddenly changed itself now
<Spass_Cosmic> I'm trying to raise awareness on ubuntu forums - https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2397371
<Spass_Cosmic> but I got response that "it seems like a semi contrived issue" :/
<Spass_Cosmic> what's strange, iirc Fedora Xfce was unaffected by this blinking issue
<Spass_Cosmic> yup "I don't see it on - Debian 9.4, Fedora 28, Linux Mint 18.3, Linux Lite 3.8"
<Spass_Cosmic> yeah, I've spend much time trying to investigate that... no success...
<Unit193> 9 is stable, that's a bit older...Compare with buster.
<Spass> Unit193, will probably try, from what I remember I just grabbed LiveCD from Debian, testing doesn't have one afaik
<Spass> and this issue is not visible in VMs so I will need to install Debian buster
<Unit193> Or just go live. :>
<Spass> Live testing ISO exist? well need to find it in that case
<Unit193> There's something unofficial you can try at least. >_>
<Spass> yeah, will do, I've tested like 7 or more distros regarding this issue
<Unit193> Sent you a link.
<Unit193> Not sure if it's worth a test or not, but unstable and Xfce.
<Spass> Unit193, thanks, will test that today for sure
<Unit193> Debian #831421, hah we did kind of fix this.
<ubottu> Debian bug 831421 in wnpp "RFP: xubuntu-artwork -- Xubuntu themes and artwork" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/831421
<Spass> Unit193, blinking issue occurs on xebian live also, tested just now
<Unit193> So very across the board then.
<Spass> pretty much, Manjaro was affected also
<Spass> but not 100% distros, some were unaffected, for "RMS knows why" reason
<flocculant> bluesabre: can we get shimmer for cosmic?
<bluesabre> flocculant: sure thing... will try to get that (and other PPAs) rolling tonight
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> Also, waiting on an elementary-xfce sponsorship first
<bluesabre> otherwise, breakage ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: xfwm4 4.13 appears to not blow up in my face
<flocculant> bluesabre: heh - let's not have deliberate breakage :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: so re 16.04.5 - I should have time tomorrow to get us to 100% and do some spotchecks on things others have tested
<flocculant> unless of course we've already got to 100% in which case I can spotcheck more things 
<flocculant> but tbh - last point release for us - not overly bothered unless we get implosion
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<bluesabre> lots of package updates this month, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/cosmic_changes?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1530574826&rev2%5B1%5D=1533073698&difftype=sidebyside
<bluesabre> bionic .0 to .1 changes, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes
<bluesabre> xenial .4 to .5 changes, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/xenial_changes
<Unit193> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-01
<RoyK24> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<RoyK24> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<RoyK24> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<RoyK24> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
<ajvpot1> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<ajvpot1> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<ajvpot1> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<jwheare20> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<flocculant> bluesabre and anyone interested - marked 16.04.5 ready
<Spass> flocculant, I know I'm late, but any more testing needed for 16.04.5? I could do some tests today
<flocculant> Spass: I marked it ready now - thanks though :)
<flocculant> if you want - you could run some cosmic tests - they're always available :D
<Spass> I'm booting my current + PPA 18.10 cosmic install from time to time and playing with it, hunting for some bugs
<Spass> oh, just noticed that Polish month names are wrong on 18.04, weird, it was ok on 17.10
<Spass> probably related to Orage
<Spass> hmm, "date +%B" is wrong too :/ where I should report that?
<Spass> never mind, it's not Xubuntu/Ubuntu related, my friend has the same issue on Arch, every month name is in genitive :/
<flocculant> blu<tab> : users of Xubuntu 16.04 should begin receiving notifications to upgrade to this release - not yet seemingly, issues the release upgrader, so bionic's not on meta-release-lts 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-02
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks!
<donofrio> any hope of workaround for my wifi (http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Z5wnJm8swm/) issues, it keeps dropping the nic - http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6K5d8nkxHM/
<donofrio> seems like this was solved years ago.....https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2237066&page=3 
<donofrio> granted that was 2.x kernel but what I can I do today to make this stable....cannot use this for work if it's unable to connect to wifi
<knome> donofrio, please keep the support questions on #xubuntu 
<Spass> still see this bug on current cosmic - mouse wheel doesn't work on "Appearance" style and icon lists, but only when I open it within the xfce4-settings-manager
<Spass> it works when I open xfce4-appearance-settings directly
<Spass> but I assume it's a known issue? no need to report it anywhere?
<knome> does it only happen in cosmic or in bionic too?
<Spass> knome, only cosmic, maybe something related to the new xfce4-settings?
<knome> maybe
<knome> bluesabre, ping-a-ling
<bluesabre> There's a bug reported for it. It's a bug in gtk. Need to file an upstream bug for it.
<bluesabre> Affects plug and socket windows.
<bluesabre> Gtk 3 specifically
<knome> bluesabre, oh, and this would have been the right channel for the discussion :D
<knome> i mean ideally, we'd let everybody in the team with a blog poot their articles to our twitter feed
<knome> their *xubuntu-related articles*
<knome> that might be one of the interesting points - does plugins support that kind of filtering
<TJ-> We may have a problem with policykit and/or logind that only affects Xubuntu, due to a recent policykit CVE backport. This is just a heads up so more eyeballs are aware. Bug #1784964
<ubottu> bug 1784964 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu) "Regression due to CVE-2018-1116 (processes not inheriting user's groups )" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1784964
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi, Unit193: but 1784964
<knome> bug too
<knome> TJ-, thanks!
<knome> Spass, i thought about you saying you don't have the skills to contribute... there's at least one thing where you would be able to help and might be motivated in as well based on the tasks you've accomplished before: the press links on the website; we try to list all reviews and whatnot that happen in the blogs, vlogs and beyond, but we've been terrible at it for the last few releases...
<knome> (and don't get me wrong, i don't think this relatively brainless task is the pinnacle of what you can achieve :P)
<Spass> knome, sounds like a task I could help with a little, yeah
<knome> hmmh, i think we should reconsider the perm policy anyway...
<knome> Unit193, i need your help later today.
<Unit193> knome: It'll have to be much, much later.  Sorry.
<knome> no hurry.
<knome> i guess i could figure this out even without your help with the staging site.
<knome> good idea, that.
 * knome pats himself on the back
<knome> ehmm.
<knome> right.
<knome> ohhh my.
<knome> :P
<knome> well done
<knome> sigh
<knome> there.
<knome> OH
 * knome facepalms hard
<knome> helps if you edit the non-local copy of the file if you want to try modifications lice
<knome> ok, sent an ad-nauseam-length mail to the devel list...
<Spass> suggestion for 18.10: adding "Find / Search" icon to the Toolbar on Atril as a default (and possibly some more icons)
<knome> Spass, guess what i'm proposing this for? d:
 * Spass reads that mail carefully
<flocculant> knome: so xubuntu-website is much like xubuntu-qa then :)
<knome> flocculant, practically, yes
<knome> except that ~xubuntu-website has meaningful code branches in LP
<knome> ...but those aren't related to content managing
<flocculant> you hope
<knome> well, there's that one branch that has our website theme that is used by the canonical IS whenever we require code deployment... :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> so i would argue it's at least technically meaningful...
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> whether it's socially as well is a different thing and not a case for me to judge :P
<flocculant> so effectively no-one actually needs to be in -website if they are in -team?
<knome> yes
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> so it would actually be better for people in -team to drop -website
<flocculant> then we know that people in -website would be the people in a sub-team
<knome> unless they contribute to the website code or strongly feel like they are part of that team
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> or manage website bugs ...
<flocculant> that said we're not such an enormous team people don't know who's who :p
<knome> sure
<knome> and really, if somebody feels like they want to be in the website team... who am i to tell they don't belong there?
<knome> just as much as -artwork or -qa
<flocculant> yea for sure agree there
<flocculant> yup
<knome> -devel is slightly different because it actually gives people some cow powers
<knome> ok, -website too but...
<flocculant> yea - agree
<knome> we do have that gatekeeper on production deployment too
<knome> eg. canonical IS won't let anybody request pulls -- i've ran into that wall previously as well :P
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> (even when officially the website lead...)
<knome> actually that wasn't code deployment but some DNS issues
<knome> but i'm sure they do some checks :P
<flocculant> interminably
<flocculant> on everything
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> then say no
<knome> when you're able to open the floodgates though - then it's been yes quickly
<flocculant> I'll not reply to thread as I've no issue
<knome> :)
<flocculant> I assume you'll own the new team with -council
<knome> i would say council owns, -website admins
<knome> actually
<knome> that'd be wrong
<knome> council owns, -website admin admins
<knome> i mean... administrators of ~xubuntu-website should also be administrators ~xubuntu-website-admin
<flocculant> and -w-admin owns -website 
<flocculant> that makes sense
<knome> otherwise getting -website membership would mean you could theoretically give yourself admin rights, which is not desired
<flocculant> kind of 
<knome> nah, -council owns everything
<flocculant> because in that scenario, -qa should own -testers
<knome> let's make one big bottleneck in case there's a trainwreck
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> because then at least new people are able to get ahold of things quickly
<knome> btw, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers says http://
<flocculant> no it doesn't ...
<knome> so says -qa
<knome> ... :P
<knome> website *clearly* doesn't!
<knome> hmm.
<knome> the artwork team description clearly is up-to-date too
<knome> links to wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork :P
<knome> ...which is an empty page in a very slow-loading wiki
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> very 'arty' :D
<knome> yep
<knome> absolutely, especially if you add an f
<flocculant> lol
<Spass> "(f)arts" will always remind me the Mad Men series, they had that on the door in the office
<Spass> sorry, that should go to -offtopic
<knome> Spass, still reading the mail? (i acknowledge it's long but...)
<flocculant> knome had -verbose on
<flocculant> as usual :D
<knome> i mean
<knome> it was hard to communicate all of the details of that with a shorter mail
<knome> the other option would have been "i'm changing this, nag now or never"
<flocculant> of course - obviously only joking
<Spass> heh, no, read it already
<flocculant> a bit
<knome> then it would have been obviously flocculant on the mailing list with all kinds of questions about freedoms he's about to lose
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> well hardly as I own all the things at the moment :p
<knome> though owning doesn't mean you get the membership benefits
<flocculant> it does if I add myself lol
<knome> sure :P
<knome> but not directly
<flocculant> :)
<knome> which is fancy
<knome> (not ironic)
<Spass> like I said before, I have some time to spare lately and I'd like to help where I can, for example with little testing / qa etc., so I could help with some articles / editing too I guess :)
<knome> Spass, so the question is... do you see where this proposal is leading us? ;)
<knome> this is primarily for the press links -- editors can add those from the admin -- but sure, all kinds of other help is welcome as well :)
<Spass> unfortunately full-blown article is above my skills (my English is not so good), but adding some info to the existing articles is fine for me, I think
<knome> that's why we give editor(esque) rights for the -team so many eyes can go through stuff
<flocculant> Spass: that's no issue at all, we just add ponglish to the finglish
<Spass> :D
<knome> yes
<flocculant> I often read things through - especially when knome asks
<knome> yes
<Spass> generally - globish
<knome> because he knows my english isn't the most fluent either
<knome> at least so far i haven't had to explain what i'm trying to communicate with something... :P
<flocculant> nope - never had that :)
<flocculant> and your english's are going to be a whole lot better than my Finn or Polish :)
<knome> well, that must've been a lie - the devil is in the details and small nuances..
<knome> also since you are maintaining the polish site, it might be useful to consider if some of the information there would be important/useful for the main site as well
<knome> and maybe - just maybe - we will get translations for the main site at some point as well
<Spass> ok cool, I'll keep that in mind
<flocculant> right - a'wandering I go :)
<knome> a youtube video awaits me...
<ochosi> knome: good proposal for the web
 * knome bows
<ochosi> just started with some basic theming in greybird for xfwm4 4.13 to get it in shape if we decide to include it or provide it somehow during cosmic
<ochosi> it's not that hard but i'm afraid it will require patching xfwm4 a little
<ochosi> at least as far as i can tell
<knome> uhuh
<Spass> I was playing with new Xfwm a bit on 18.10 and my xfce4-settings crashed - https://ibb.co/ffJ3gK
<Spass> and I've noticed a problem with window elements disappearing from the options panel when I change the order of them
<Spass> if that issue isn't known already I can elaborate / record my desktop to show that
<ochosi> Spass: reporting an upstream bug is always a good idea
<ochosi> not sure whether this is particularly known
<Spass> ochosi, ok will do that tomorrow
<Spass> apport kicked in, so - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1785143
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1785143 not found
<Spass> hmm, it's private
<Spass> (changed to public)
<Spass> not sure if that's normal, but I got a lot of "...is drawn without a current allocation. This should not happen." messages in the XsessionErrors.txt
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-03
<flocculant> updated torrents for 16.04
<knome> ahh, fantastic
<knome> i messed up something earlier, but our new website code was actually deployed a few days ago!
<knome> flocculant, the EOL issue is now fixed
<flocculant> knome: cool
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-session 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-session-4-13-1-released-tp51482.html (by Eric Koegel)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-04
<TJ-> Could be investigate a backport/SRU of xfce4-settings to address Bug #1615286  ? This has a fix we've just confirmed (tomreyn and myself). It's either bring in the changes from Artful or investigate how feasible an 18.04>16.04 backport is (2 major dependency bumps)
<ubottu> bug 1615286 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce - screen turns black after power off/power on" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615286
#xubuntu-devel 2018-08-05
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: installer: seed linux-udebs-snapdragon @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a45e00c59174d5bce28f982ea717f494b9bb640a (by Adam Conrad)
<pmjdebruijn> is there any documentation on how the official xubuntu ISOs are generated?
<pmjdebruijn> I used to have a script of my own that wrapped around live-build, but now it's generating broken initrds
<pmjdebruijn> ubuntu-defaults-builder generates broken initrd's as well
<pmjdebruijn> oh wait, the new iso no longer wants initrd.lz
<ochosi> Unit193: btw, i've missed a bit in here but have you taken a look at the latest xfce4-session?
<ochosi> seems like quite a few things should be fixed by now
<ochosi> and i'm wondering if it makes sense to throw it in the experimental PPA so we can test it a little to decide if we wanna ship it or not
<Unit193> Not in the slightest.
<ochosi> (although the default would be not shipping it, because that's what we committed to in the beginning of the cycle, i guess)
<ochosi> xfwm4 4.13 finally seems to work ok for me
<Unit193> xfwm4 4.13 is always a 'for me' or 'not for me' type of deal.
<ochosi> in which respect? you mean: works for some, doesn't for others?
<Unit193> yep.
<ochosi> hmm, haven't heard many complaints about the latest release
<ochosi> have you?
<Unit193> Haven't tested it since it was pretty flakey for me.
<Unit193> xfwm4                     4.13.1-0ppa1~18.10          11
<Unit193> xfwm4                     4.13.1-0ppa1~18.04          44
<Unit193> Surely someone might have said something, and not just downgraded...
<bluesabre> Unit193, ochosi: gaston seemed to be having some issues with it earlier today on #xfce-dev
<ochosi> crap, shouldn't have lost my connection
<ochosi> bluesabre: xfwm4 or the session though?
<bluesabre> ochosi: xfwm4, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Fy7TrBkgRq/
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> anyway, runs stable enough for me to add the theming part ;)
<ochosi> at least that one is fine
<bluesabre> that's good :D
<ochosi> and i hope i can add a hidpi theme for xfwm4 for 18.10
<ochosi> not sure if i'll make it in tim
<ochosi> e
<ochosi> but the basics are there now
<bluesabre> that's with gtk scaling or a separate theme?
<ochosi> separate theme
<Unit193> So, no xfwm then.
<ochosi> the gtk scaling part is in gtk+ itself (headerbars)
<ochosi> and the hidpi theme is an extra variant of greybird that goes with the x2 scaling of gtk+ and x11
<ochosi> ideally we'll try to be a little more intelligent about this in xfce in the future
<ochosi> i.e. when you switch scaling factors it switches to a hidpi version of the theme
<ochosi> but anyway, that would have to be discussed with olivier
<ochosi> meanwhile i'll try to fix up the theme variant, that'll be needed in any case
<bluesabre> maybe we'd have some 2x, 3x variants inside the xfwm4 theme folder
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> that would be the easiest and most straightforward solution
<ochosi> same as with icon themes
<bluesabre> mhm
<ochosi> other than that i hope i'll get to some hacking this week
<ochosi> do you know of any high-prio stuff i should take a look at?
<Unit193> ochosi: I pinged you several times, but you never came. :(
<ochosi> (sorry, after two weeks of holidays i don't seem to remember a thing ;D)
<ochosi> soooooorrry
 * Unit193 pouts.
 * ochosi lures Unit193 out of his corner
<ochosi> anything in particular you pinged me about?
<Unit193> The icon theme transition being worked on by blue.
<ochosi> ah, what's happening there exactly?
<ochosi> anything i should contribute to?
<Unit193> Nah it's packaging stuff, but IIRC you were disinterested in using my new nice package, elementary-xfce-icon-theme since it ships svgs, and you're a fan of xubuntu-icon-theme's pngs?
<ochosi> the main issue with svgs is that their less performant and they look smudgy in a lot of apps
<bluesabre> technically the png theme is a downstream enhancement (part of the ubuntu packaging)
<ochosi> what's the problem with including the svgtopng.c part in your nice package?
<ochosi> yeah, that's what it is right now
<ochosi> i don't mind including it upstream
<ochosi> we can add a makefile there and the svgtopng crap
<ochosi> if that helps you with harmonizing the situatio
<ochosi> n
<Unit193> Mainly, svgs seem fairly normal to ship, I didn't want to complicate things too much, and xubuntu-icon-theme repacks upstream's source as pngs.
<Unit193> ochosi: My main point was that I didn't want to waste bluesabre's time if we were going to continue to use xubuntu-icon-theme.
<bluesabre> what if we added the png-maker to upstream and the built png theme become the norm?
<bluesabre> for both debian and ubuntu
<Unit193> If it is effortless on both our parts, sure?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yup, i would also go that way
<ochosi> if you wanna add a makefile and the svgtopng binary to the repo feel free to
<ochosi> gotta get some sleep now
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, will see about doing that tonight/tomorrow
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-29
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, I noticed when packaging screensaver (for local stuff) that you ported to gdbus, but yet you still check for the libdbus-something-1 dep, is that needed?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<Unit193> bluesabre: OK, I did a couple.  I'm leaving the rest for you. :3
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/usr/share/polkit-1/actions/com.ubuntu.pkexec.mousepad.policy.in can be dropped. \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-30
<maggotbrain> On the login accounts list dropdown, my user names have been replaced with the word "Comment" for multiple accounts.
<maggotbrain> Am running lightdm 1.28 xfce 4.13 pre3
<maggotbrain> Where can I look to troubleshoot this?
<Unit193> Neither accountsservice nor lightdm have seen any uploads in Eoan recently..Hrm.
<maggotbrain> screenshot: https://imgur.com/Jnz0Hag
<Unit193> Ah so it's just using 'real names'
<maggotbrain> How can I change that back? Or, why is it using 'Comment' instead of falling back to the account name?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-31
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, will hopefully get to uploading tomorrow night
<bluesabre> IRL schedule is once again weird :P
<Unit193> :(
<knome> would something like 13UTC be completely undoable for a meeting?
<Unit193> During the week that's a bad time for Sean, and a bad time for me as well.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-01
<Eickmeyer> Well, I found something. Bug 1838586
<ubottu> bug 1838586 in vala-panel-appmenu (Ubuntu) "xfce4-appmenu-plugin using high CPU" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838586
<bluesabre> Eickmeyer: does studio have appmenu enabled by default?
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre: No, I was just playing with it.
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<Eickmeyer> I mean, I'd like to use it, but not if it's going to eat CPU.
<brainwash> Eickmeyer: this? https://gitlab.com/vala-panel-project/vala-panel-appmenu/issues/174
<Eickmeyer> brainwash: Very possibly: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1838586 in vala-panel-appmenu (Ubuntu) "xfce4-appmenu-plugin using high CPU" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> "If you set the panel to use a solid color instead of the system theme, the CPU usage is back down to normal, regardless of the theme."
<Eickmeyer> brainwash: That seems a bit like a workaround.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-02
<bluesabre> Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Bionic 18.04.3] (20190802) has been added
<bluesabre> Builds: Xubuntu Desktop i386 [Bionic 18.04.3] (20190802) has been added
<Eickmeyer> brainwash: That workaround did not work. Definitely something screwy with the plugin.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-03
<Spass[m]> any specific date known for the 18.04.3 point release?
<bluesabre> Spass[m]: August 8th
<Spass[m]> cool, thanks
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks like you never got to packaging while I was gone?
<bluesabre> Unit193: actually back to it right now... and it's good you're here, because I have a question :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: since xfpanel-switch has a new upstream/project name... is this acceptable? Or do I create an xfce4-panel-profiles package and break/replace to it https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Yprqy89SHp/
<Unit193> I'd rename the source package to xfce4-panel-profiles, adding the transitional package.
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> And don't worry about the other packages, I'll get them uploaded today (tomorrow latest)
<Unit193> When you're done with xfce4-panel-profiles, toss me a dsc to upload.
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<bluesabre> you're a motu
<bluesabre> that's handy :D
<Unit193> A bit!
<Unit193> I only left you about 4, and two of them are your babies. :>
<bluesabre> Yeah, noticed you were pretty generous :)
<Unit193> Eh, you do way more upstream work so I call it even (at best.)  After that, we'll have to either file a removal bug or poke someone, then it'll be finished.
<ochosi> awesome packaging work, folks
<Unit193> Everything is backported for disco too.
<ochosi> \o/
<Unit193> Maybe I should start working on the Debian side of things too. :/
<bluesabre> Unit193: I seem to be missing something, dh_auto_install fails after adding the transition package, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4vTXDzbJ2x/
<bluesabre> Guessing I need an install file or something to tell everything to go into the xfce4-panel-switch packge?
<bluesabre> s/switch/plugins
<Unit193> dh_auto_install â dh_auto_install --destdir=$(DESTDIR)
<Unit193> With one package, it does that automatically.  When you add a second then everything goes into debian/tmp/
<bluesabre> ahaaaaaaa
<bluesabre> Sure enough, sanity restored
<bluesabre> Thanks Unit193, https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring/+sourcefiles/xfce4-panel-profiles/1.0.9-0ubuntu1/xfce4-panel-profiles_1.0.9-0ubuntu1.dsc
<bluesabre> Gotta run out for a bit, but will bbabl
<Unit193> out-of-date-standards-version 4.3.0 (released 2018-12-23) (current is 4.4.0)  but this doesn't matter too much here.
<bluesabre> oh wow, eoan is behind then :O
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/435835638/xfce4-panel-profiles_1.0.9-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<bluesabre> Nice!
<bluesabre> New package versions of catfish and mugshot pushed to salsa
#xubuntu-devel 2019-08-04
<bluesabre> (I'll let them simmer for a day or two in case mapreri uploads them)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/1.0.3-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/4.13.4-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/4.13.8-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> Unit193: are you able to sponsor packages into debian?
<Unit193> Yes.
<bluesabre> I remembered that mapreri is usually pretty busy
<bluesabre> Unit193: would you be interested in uploading catfish and mugshot?
<Unit193> I can't push to their git repos, but sure.
<bluesabre> That, I can do :)
<bluesabre> I'll provide some dsc files then (no hurry, I think this is usually when you go to sleep?)
<bluesabre> Will take a little bit, grabbing unstable archive to test build quickly
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://bluesabre.org/sponsoring/catfish_1.4.8-1.dsc and https://bluesabre.org/sponsoring/mugshot_0.4.2-1.dsc
<bluesabre> Unit193: Let me know if there's anything else you need :)
<Unit193> I'm actually up already, I have slept a few hours.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> I'd likely drop Jackson off at this point, but eh.
<Unit193> Debian 932867
<ubottu> Debian bug 932867 in mugshot "mugshot: not in Buster" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/932867
<bluesabre> Yeah, it was FTBFS for a bit when they changed python packaging, so I tried to get it uploaded. It got ignored for weeks until about a week after buster was frozen, so it got dropped from the archive.
<Unit193> Oops, I meant to link the catfish bug, not that one..
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> The catfish one is still outstanding
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sure thing!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't forget to push tags for mugshot and catfish.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-27
<knome> DarkTrick, have you reported bug reports for these?
<DarkTrick> knome, @freecad, yes, @menu doing it now
<DarkTrick> general question: is it usual, that this release is rather unstable?
<DarkTrick> I can't even use vlc player anymore -> seg fault on video playback
<DarkTrick> knome, what package is the menu? I thought xfce4-popup-whiskermenu, but ubuntu-bug says it's not installed
<DarkTrick> so probably it's something else...
<brainwash> DarkTrick: xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin
<DarkTrick> brainwash, thank you.
<Unit193> Curious, did you try newer whiskermenus?
<DarkTrick> Unit193, no, just upgraded
<DarkTrick> which is the latest version?
<Unit193> 2.4.6
<DarkTrick> 2.4.3 here
<DarkTrick> probably just a matter of updating repos
<DarkTrick> probably -> maybe
<brainwash> what is the problem/bug?
<DarkTrick> brainwash, bug after upgrade 19.10 -> 20.04 @ application menu: (1) open menu (2) search something (eg "office") (3) press arrow-down key (4) actual: nothing happens, expected: select first entry of menu
<brainwash> I think that was fixed
<brainwash> or at least it was reported already
<brainwash> https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/-/issues/8
<ubot93> Issue 8 in panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin "First down arrow key press after search ignored" [Closed]
<brainwash> fixed a week ago
<Unit193> Groovy has 2.4.5
<DarkTrick> hm..
<Unit193> I haven't yet backported to the PPA, was waiting for .6.  I can do that now though...
<DarkTrick> is it worth then to open an "update-repo" request on launchpad?
<DarkTrick> Unit193, I'm not sure what your last message means.
<DarkTrick> that will fix the bug within the ubuntu repos?
<Unit193> DarkTrick: Xubuntu team has a PPA that backports 4.14.x and panel plugins/etc.  non-development releases that go to Groovy.  I haven't yet updated whiskermenu in there, and was stating that I could do so (I noted I was waiting until .6 was uploaded to groovy)
<DarkTrick> groovy = 20.10, focal = 20.04, I guess
<DarkTrick> That mean, hopefully the bug is fixed with 20.10 after you backported
<DarkTrick> (let me know if I'm wrong :) )
<Unit193> Yeah groovy is development, backport would be to the PPA for focal.
<DarkTrick> :)
<DarkTrick> sorry, just to make sure: After the backport it will be in ubuntu repos and shared via general system update?
<Unit193> Nope.
<DarkTrick> so I'd file a "update package"-report on launchpad...
<brainwash> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<brainwash> read this
<DarkTrick> I'm aware, that only special things get fixed. But 20.04 is going to be an LTS release... I think a bug in that place is pretty,pretty naster for UX
<brainwash> is that the case? I mean did anyone report the bug on launchpad yet?
<DarkTrick> well, the LTS is not out yet. I wanted to report it right after figuring it out.
<brainwash> it has been out since April
<DarkTrick> and there is https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/-/issues/8
<ubot93> Issue 8 in panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin "First down arrow key press after search ignored" [Closed]
<DarkTrick> so... yes?
<brainwash> you can try your luck with a SRU then
<DarkTrick> brainwash, is there an easy way to fix to problem for me? e.g. add the ppa of xubuntu and run a SW update?
<brainwash> note that this would update other packages also
<DarkTrick> :/ 
<brainwash> maybe you don't want that
<brainwash> so only update the whiskermenu package
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin_2.4.5-1_amd64.deb
<brainwash> or try to install the groovy package
<Unit193> Well, note .6 says: - Fix crash during grab check. (xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin Issue #19)
<ubot93> Issue 19 in panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin "Whisker menu hotkey disappears panel icon no start menu" [Closed] https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/-/issues/19
<brainwash> here's an example of a SRU
<brainwash> bug 1886824
<ubot93> Bug 1886824 in xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (Ubuntu) "Search delay -> update to 2.4.4" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1886824
<DarkTrick> brainwash, thank you for the link
<DarkTrick> I think I'm not going the SRU
<DarkTrick> is there a (e.g.) wiki page showing the PPA you mentioned above?
<DarkTrick> I would (1) add the PPA (2) update whiskermenu only (3) deactivate PPA. As the version is higher than in official repos a sys update should not overwrite the newer version
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<Unit193> Hrm, last I knew I didn't have permissions to create PPAs?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-28
<DarkTrick> Why wouldn't we rename "Software & Updates" to "Software & Update Settings" or " ??? Settings". Because that's what it's essentially: settings.
<brainwash> DarkTrick: because it is already listed under the Settings category
<brainwash> and it appears in the "Settings" Manager
<DarkTrick> valid
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-29
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hrm, can I have more permissions in the xubuntu-dev team?  I want to do something nasty.
<bluesabre> Unit193: LP?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<Unit193> I find it amusing I can delete a PPA, but not create one. :P
<bluesabre> Thatâs unexpected
<Unit193> I ran into that issue before once, when I deleted a team repo to re-create it, but...couldn't.
<bluesabre> Unit193: youâve been promoted
<Unit193> Thanks!  I can do terrible things now!
<bluesabre> Donât break anything too hard
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/libx/libxfce4ui/news/20200729T223444Z.html
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Basically, I want to do a nasty thing, downgrade a package.
<bluesabre> Ooh, fun
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-30
<Unit193> I'm really wanting to sunset the Bionic PPAs.
<xubuntu4> Hello
<jphilips> DarkTrick: i've been annoyed with the same down arrow bug in whisker menu since i installed 20.04, but never reported it :D
<jphilips> regarding renaming "Software & Updates", i'm hoping to do alot of renaming in this issue https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/issues/7
<ubot93> Issue 7 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "Settings Manager Updates" [Open]
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-31
<DarkTrick> jphilips, thank you for picking the topic up!
<DarkTrick> @whisker: I want to screem at my computer about 3 times a day for that bug, but I don't have any more capacity for fighting for a fix. I hope 20.10 fixes it in 3 month
<Unit193> 20.10 technically already fixed it.
<DarkTrick> ðï¸ glad to hear that!
<DarkTrick> jphilips, regarding S&U: good to know there's a report already. I'm counting on it :)
<jphilips> DarkTrick: i have started to use app finder instead of whisker menu and tied it to Ctrl + Space :D
<jphilips> bluesabre will be checking how easy we can make the renaming in settings manager
<DarkTrick> jphilips, So simple, but so perfect. If feel so stupid! Thank you for the idea! made my ... next three months!ðï¸
<jphilips> DarkTrick: i disable the showing of the categories in app finder as well, so it feels more like other launcher apps
<DarkTrick> This is sooo nice!
<DarkTrick> thank you again jphilips!
<DarkTrick> I didn't even know you can configure it :D
<jphilips> preferences button :D
<DarkTrick> never really say that :D
<jphilips> this is how it looks when it launches https://imgur.com/9mvHH64.png
<DarkTrick> ðï¸
<jphilips> when i shared a screenshot of it on twitter, people were very curious about using the same setup :D
<pleia2> jphilips: I saw a proposal from the fosshost folks but no follow-up, are we using them? (they list us as one of their projects)
<pleia2> ah, looks like that's what the temporary mattermost bridge is on?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-01
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> â No idea if that'll boot yet.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.14.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-14-4-released-tp59338.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfwm4 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-15-0-released-tp59339.html (by Olivier Fourdan)
<albinard> @unit193: afraid yoour iso from this morning didn't boot on HP p7-1010
<albinard> xcore 20.10 iso, that is
<Unit193> Hrm, well it's a weird one for sure, worked in KVM but that doesn't really mean anything.
<jphilips> pleia2: i was told by the team that they didn't have a use for fosshost
<jphilips> i applied for some hosting through them and yes the telegram-to-irc bridge is being hosted on it now
<jphilips> 20.04.1 is to be released on the 6th, so are putting out an announcement about it?
<jphilips> bluesabre: a number of users are facing the same issue that i faced of snap store uninstalling gnome software
<jphilips> David Mohammed mentioned in the ubuntu flavors irc and ubuntu testers telegram group that 'Since you have gnome-software as a recommendation in your seeds, update manager will "upgrade" it to a snap. your seed needs to be adjusted to make gnome-software a dependency'
<jphilips> Unit193: ^^^
<Unit193> Um, no.  It does not need to be a dep.  If it can't be just gnome-software perhaps dropping it would be more useful.
<Unit193> alynpost: Heya!  I was about to reply to your email.  I might still do that though.  So no, you shouldn't have to wait a super long time.  It boots to the try/install screen, or is supposed to.
<Unit193> albinard: â  If at the grub boot screen you hit 'e', you should be able to remove the 'quiet splash' options.  But I'm about to try grml booting it.
<Unit193> alynpost: Sorry for the ping.
<albinard> Okay, I'll hold off for now as you try.
<Unit193> OK, this doesn't support loopback booting at all.  Nice..
<Unit193> Pretty sure the desktop ones no longer do either, but didn't test that.
<alynpost> I did wonder and assume you'd got the wrong guy--we do have a kernel bug report out to Debian but couldn't figure how that would quite be related--though I was willing to accept fantastic service, lol.
<Unit193> So a fun thing I learned last night, mkinitramfs sets the path to /usr/bin, /sbin, /bin.  The busybox initramfs hook calls a program that's in /usr/sbin/...
<Unit193> ...I wonder if I can't just symlink loopback.cfg in or something, actually. :D
<Unit193> albinard: Anywho, so if you can edit the boot line to see where it's going wrong, that could well be useful.
<albinard> Sorry, out of time right now - might give it a shot tomorrow.
<jphilips> Unit193: so what is your suggestion to stop the snap store from overwriting gnome software? or was it that you were suggesting that we not ship gnome software, which I feel wouldn't be the best solution.
<Unit193> Yeah no problem at all!  I cracked the ISO open and fudged in a little loopback.
<Unit193> jphilips: I never liked gnome-software so I'm biased, but I do not like the idea that xubuntu-desktop would depend on gnome-software.
<jphilips> i don't like it as well, but for new users it is useful and we recently completed writing a whole section about it in the documentation
<jphilips> a number of users have mentioned abandoning xubuntu as they think it comes with the snap store
<jphilips> here is the other part of david's message on telegram - https://imgur.com/TKeQrd9.png
<jphilips> bluesabre: ^^^
<albinard> to Unit193: That sounds like there's now a new ISO to download with the loopback fudged in - correct?
<Unit193> Well not quite, I sort of did that locally to test out.  Also can't use a symlink as I forgot about the scan-iso/filename=$iso_path param that needs to be there.  Anywho, booted to a desktop, xfsettingsd wasn't running so everything was a bit off.  This is wonderfully fun. :P  The last part I don't claim as my issue though.
<Unit193> jphilips: ...I've had half a mind to remove snapd from core, but that'd be diverging based on my own preferences...
#xubuntu-devel 2020-08-02
<jphilips> Unit193: is snapd powering anything important enough that it needs to be in core?
<jphilips> with the regular version, the gnome software snap plugin is used
<Unit193> No snaps are pre-installed, no.
<jphilips> no snaps installed on regular version either :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<Unit193> I guess I'd also be interested if this works with EFI.
<Unit193> (I guess for anyone reading and interested: KVM boots fine, grml/loopback.cfg now works.)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: replace libstdc++-9-pic with libstdc++-10-pic @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=c4466ed80c8465ff0567a40992e7f768bd4c91bf (by Matthias Klose)
<pleia2> jphilips: ah, that's helpful to know :) one of the concerns about the bridge was that it was just one person offering up their personal system (no backup admins), now that I know that there's a whole project around it, we should probably follow-up to see how it's managed and maybe we can just rely upon that
<jphilips> pleia2: it was only put on a personal system until it was put on xubuntu infra, but bluesabre would be the one installing and managing it on the xubuntu infra once approval came through. we are awaiting bluesabre to email the ML to get in the votes so we can move forward with the proposal
<pleia2> so is it fosshost or someone's personal system?
<jphilips> it was on aaditya's personal system until his hosting expired
<jphilips> now its on fosshost until we move it to xubuntu infra
