#ubuntu-uk 2011-10-31
<FlippingYoda> daftykins: hi sorry was on another server... cant stop now, was playing with 11.10 but can wait cya later
<Jora> hi
<daftykins> Jora: hey
<Jora> hows it going?
<Jora> I didn't reply to your email yet.
<daftykins> ^_^ hehe
<Jora> Must be like the middle of the night there
<daftykins> don't go too quick or we'll run out of stuff to say!
<daftykins> yep half midnight now
<Jora> yeah!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> reading some vermont uni school paper, which i somehow got onto
<Jora> Whats it about?
<daftykins> just saw an interesting title hacking piece
<daftykins> http://www.vermontcynic.com/
<daftykins> it's in a little reader on the side
<Jora> well hopefully its an interesting read and you learn something cool
<daftykins> rofl, SAT cheating kids got arrested
<daftykins> bit extreme
<daftykins> Jora: how're things with you? or shall i wait for an email to find out :O
<Jora> im fine, doing tons of laundry!
<Jora> I'm going to make brownies for my last day in hell.
<Jora> :D
<daftykins> ooh the grand escape tomorrow eh?
<Jora> No Friday
<daftykins> or Friday
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> sounds nice :)
<Jora> Yeah
<daftykins> i just watched an episode of South Park where Cartman made cupcakes and laced them with laxitive
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> don't go getting any ideas!
<Jora> No, not getting any ideas
<Jora> Hard to believe its my last week
<daftykins> how long have you been there in total
<daftykins> ?
<Jora> 3 years about
<daftykins> wowzer
<Jora> why is taht wowzer
<Jora> Thats not that long to be there
<daftykins> eh just longer than i've held a single job :)
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i should get some parts this week to fix a client's computer i have here
<Jora> You havent had a job that long?
<daftykins> nah
<Jora> wow
<daftykins> came back from Uni, did 6 months contract IT support
<daftykins> then i did November -> July teaching last
<daftykins> technically i have been doing the freelance stuff for years :D
<Jora> well whatever works for you
<daftykins> so, feeling any nostalgia for this week?
<Jora> I wish I had vacation
<Jora> I mean time off, do I want to go to work tommorrow, no.
<Jora> I would like to just work friday and be done
<Jora> And have the rest of the week off
<daftykins> =]
<Jora> I have enough time to do that
<Jora> but
<Jora> Its not a proper 2 week notice then
<daftykins> do you then go right into the new one?
<Jora> maybe maybe not
<Jora> Depends on how fast my drug test processes
<daftykins> wow, they did urine tests?
<daftykins> or rather, singular
<Jora> No hair tests
<daftykins> ah interesting
<Jora> there are going to clip or shave off some hair from my head
<daftykins> very thorough
<Jora> Its the standard now I guess
<Jora> Some places do tests of your body fat
<daftykins> :S
<Jora> For drugs
<daftykins> most i've had are police checks
<daftykins> due to the jobs being around kids of course
<Jora> They do everything but a credit report check
<daftykins> i've never had so much as a parking or speeding ticket as i've never driven :D
<Jora> :D
<daftykins> not so sure how i'd fare on that drug business though ;)
<Jora> meh
<Jora> I don't know
<Jora> Im not worried since I've never done drugs
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> i'm not familiar with the tests to know
<daftykins> but i think you need some pretty regular use to affect your hair
<daftykins> at least in a single block of time
<daftykins> i don't really go near stuff
<daftykins> hmm what to do
<Jora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test#Hair_drug_testing
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> ty
<daftykins> ah-har so style/wash your hair with too many funky products and you may well affect results
<daftykins> downside to my long hair i suppose, a long-range specimen :D
<daftykins> oh, Vermont is in the US
<daftykins> it sounded Canadian to me for some reason
<Jora> hehe maybe
<daftykins> hmm, need to pick out some new grips for my bike but i've got no idea what to go for :D
<daftykins> g'night Jora, have a good last week o/
<Jora> nite daftykins
<knightwise> morning everyone.
<popey> Morning!
<knightwise> good morning popey
<knightwise> congrats with the job at cannonical
<knightwise> let your first task be to convice shuttleworth that unity is a bad choice.
<knightwise> and that the standard background should always feature lolcats or pink ponies
<knightwise> :)
<knightwise> I shall sprout a religion in your honor if you succeed
<MartijnVdS> Uhm. "sprout" it?
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: i think that would be the correct term no ?
<MartijnVdS> I'd say "start" or "invent"
<knightwise> Sprout sounds way more Belgian :)
<MartijnVdS> Brussels sprouts?
<knightwise> Badabing !
<MartijnVdS> Strange zuiderburen are strange ;)
<knightwise> hahah :)
<knightwise> tell me about the dutch !
<knightwise>  i work in holland , so i know how strange YOU guyz can be
<MartijnVdS> We're not strange at all!
<knightwise> hey Girly-Girl
<GirlyGirl> knightwise: Hi
<AlanBell> morning all
<knightwise> hey AlanBell
<rml_home> am I going to regret upgrading to 11.10?
 * rml_home is in mid upgrade right now, but I absolutely need my VPN to work once it's finished
 * rml_home frets
<awilkins> I reall must persude my bossto let me work at home all week when the wifelet is on call.
<AlanBell> rml_home: I am running it on my work laptop, it is fine. VPN works fine
<awilkins> Trains are rubbish
<knightwise> I read the post on lifehacker about the difference between gnome3 and unity
<awilkins> So is my typing on a smartphone KB
<AlanBell> rml_home: I gave up on the unity alt-tab switcher and picked one of the other compiz switchers, and I stopped the unity launcher from hiding
<knightwise> conclusion was : they both suck but gnome3 sucks less
<AlanBell> the unity launcher was always getting in the way of the browser back button
<knightwise> i guess the gold old days of a taskbar at the bottom and being able to customise your machine .. are over
<knightwise> I feel old when i think of that
<AlanBell> yes, those days are over. I don't care.
<awilkins> I'm irritated by the launcher not unhiding when you put the pointer top left, but that's only because I got used to the one in Natty
<knightwise> AlanBell: i think i should just dive in ?
<knightwise> cause even mint will be switching to gnome3
<AlanBell> awilkins: yes, that annoyed me too
<AlanBell> another reason to not autohide the launcher
<AlanBell> I am not short of pixels
<awilkins> After remapping capslock to "super" I'm happier (my keyboard has no Windows key)
<rml_home> I'm currently on 10.4 and find unity a PITB.  Also it seems incapable of remembering my dual screen setup for more than one or two reboots.
<awilkins> rml_home, nvidia card?
<rml_home> ATI
<awilkins> No idea how to fix that then
<MartijnVdS> Don't use the non-free driver
<MartijnVdS> it should work fine with the free drivers
<rml_home> me neither :)  I'm hoping there has been sufficient whinging by others that it got addressed though
<MartijnVdS> rml_home: file a bug, that's official whinging ;)
 * rml_home nods
<awilkins> I'm getting a lot of nasty crashes I think are linked to graphics.
<awilkins> Vista seems to be stable, played Witcher 2 all evening
<rml_home> MartijnVdS: pretty much everything I've read says "use the Catalyst driver" cos the Ubuntu ones aren't as good.
<MartijnVdS> except the catalyst driver breaks every other upgrade
<rml_home> MartijnVdS: has that changed?
<rml_home> ah
<AlanBell> UDS starts today
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p
<MartijnVdS> And the first announcement is out
<AlanBell> do remotely attend sessions about anything that interests, and anything that annoys you :)
<MartijnVdS> "Ubuntu will be for phones and tablets"
<MartijnVdS> (see ArsTechnica)
<knightwise> aha .. so there is a strategy behind all the unity stuff
<awilkins> Well, there had to be, really
<awilkins> I wonder when UbuFone will be ready for the N900   (hint! hint!)
<TheOpenSourcerer> does oneiric (Unity 3d) work in VBox? I couldn't get it to run last night - was wanting to have a play with gnome shell.
<AlanBell> it does
<MartijnVdS> gnome's hell
<awilkins> Do you need the newer guest extensions?
<TheOpenSourcerer> My lappy has vbox 4.1 but the oneiric screen just goes white once it has booted.
<AlanBell> install the packaged guest extensions
<AlanBell> oh, not seen the white screen
<TheOpenSourcerer> As soon as I pass my mouse over the oneirc window after logging in - it goes white. Unity 2d is OK.
<AlanBell> virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 installed in the guest normally does it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gnome shell does the same thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> tried that.
<TheOpenSourcerer> NM - will have another crack tonight prolly.
<AlanBell> on the laptop too, same hardware as me
<TheOpenSourcerer> not important
<awilkins> Don't you also have to enable 3D on the VM display?
<AlanBell> oh yeah, that too
<TheOpenSourcerer> awilkins: Yeah - that's done.
<awilkins> Hmmph. Different graphics driver on the host would be my next suggestion.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is there *anything* graphene isn't useful for? http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/10/graphene-is-better-as-a-threesome.ars
<awilkins> Graphene curtains?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Should think they'd be great - very light and flexible yet strong.
<awilkins> But rather transparent
<TheOpenSourcerer> you could paint them.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or cover them in thin cotton ;-)
<awilkins> With... quantum dot suspension. Then they'd generate electricity too. Bloody know-it-all graphene
<awilkins> Graphene condoms probably turn your kids into superheroes if they have a hole in them.....
<awilkins> New "Florence" album today. Hooray.
<MartijnVdS> has she fixed her voice to be less whiney on this one?
<MartijnVdS> or annoyingly-pitched?
<awilkins> Not got a copy yet. May actually visit a ...... shop  (oh, the shame of it)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get a bendy phone next year :-) http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/samsung-to-introduce-flexible-displays-in-devices-next-year.ars
<MartijnVdS> Doesn't Amazon ship to your place? :P
<awilkins> She is a bit Marmite, isn't she?
<awilkins> Didnt know it was coming. Need cheering up. Will pay HMV immediacy premium
<MooDoo> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski how's the US?
<czajkowski> nice so far
<MooDoo> good good
<awilkins> Florida less "turkish bath" in October?
<DJones> Morning all
<ali1234> what time is the UDS keynote?
<ali1234> and is it streamed?
<AlanBell> 1PM
<AlanBell> http://video.ubuntu.com/live/
<ali1234> cheers
<AlanBell> there will be a better quality audio stream at http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/
<popey> wheeee
<MartijnVdS> popey: please don't wee in the channel ;P
<DJones> Yes, you'd better do that before you get on the plane
<popey> choo choo
<diplo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Should you not be *at work* already on your first day?
<czajkowski> mail sent to the lists
<czajkowski> ie and uk
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> flying the flags
<MooDoo> :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: I do try as much as possible to help both teams
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i know :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: tricky when work is in orlando
<popey> and I am in the UK
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
 * popey notes czajkowski doesn't proof-read her mails âº
<czajkowski> I did  what did I miss....
<czajkowski> :/
<DJones> Just blame it on google translate :)
<czajkowski> :(
<popey> heh
<popey> en_ie to en_gb
<czajkowski> I've en_gb running
<czajkowski> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> an aberrant apostrophe, and ac instead of act were two I noticed. Also a few commas would help legibility. Marks out of 10? 4
<mattt> morning
 * mattt is sweepy today
<popey> its more that the bit in the middle assumes quite a bit of knowledge
<MartijnVdS> weepy? why? :P
<popey> \o/ reigate
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders what on earth popey is doing in Reigate but is somehow unsurprised.
<MooDoo> reigate surrey?  thought you were going to UDS popey ?
 * mattt throws a slippery clog at MartijnVdS
 * MooDoo needs coffee
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's a great train track - Guildford to Reigate - Specially when the sun is out
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Will be on his way to Gatwick I expect
<MooDoo> ah!
<popey> ya
<popey> it is a very nice track
 * popey tickles schwuk 
<sadsun> mornin
<czajkowski> ohh the new area in the north terminal is NICE for BA
<czajkowski> very swish
 * schwuk giggles and tells popey to stop it
<DJones> czajkowski: You flying business class?
<czajkowski> nope
<popey> hahaha
<DJones> Shame
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Taking part in UDS remotely - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/10/31/taking-part-in-uds-remotely/
<DJones> Working in this industry, I'm always shocked at how much people pay for business class flights, Â£5-10K return
<mattt> why?  i always fly business class.
<czajkowski> DJones: it's not as if I'm gonna sleep on the flight
<mattt> kidding, i've only been bumped up once.  :(
<czajkowski> I usualy just read or watch movies  and hey presto land
<mattt> czajkowski: how long's the flight?  bout 10-11 hours?
<czajkowski> 9.5
<mattt> the last time i flew to the US, i had to sit next to a lady w/ a baby on her lap
<mattt> and she even asked me to hold the baby a few times while she did this and that :(
<czajkowski> ok so you had to help someone
<czajkowski> *shock*
<mattt> it was odd
 * mattt looks at baby in his hands
<czajkowski> there was a lovely couple who had thier 4 year old boys and a 9 week old baby who never open his mouth during the flight
<mattt> yeah, this boy was good too, didn't say boo
<mattt> czajkowski: our work proxy blocks your blog post :(
<czajkowski> tther was a 7 year old girl who cried a lott so they fed her sweets then she threw up
<mattt> haha!
<popey> i put some films on my ipad for the journey
<MooDoo> my rosie has a fab pair of lungs on her :S
<czajkowski> MooDoo: :)
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<jerome__> !
<czajkowski> MooDoo: how old is she now ?
<czajkowski> this 9 week old baby just slept and was fed and changed.
<czajkowski> he wwas adorably cute
<MooDoo> czajkowski: 6 weeks :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: sorry make that 7
<mattt> you don't typically fly with a 6 or 7 week old, do you?
<czajkowski> aww
<MooDoo> mattt: i wouldn't dream of it....
<czajkowski> forgot tis a bank holiday in .ie today
<MooDoo> czajkowski: she's smiling now as well :D
<czajkowski> MooDoo: so she doesnt cry all the time then :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: no not all the time but when she does, you know about it
<mattt> wonder at what point david cameron's going to start reclaiming bank holidays
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> mattt: and is the older one getting oon with her ?
<MooDoo> !politics
<lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<MooDoo> sorry couldn't resist :)
 * mattt stares at MooDoo :/
<MooDoo> hee hee :)
 * mattt goes back to work
<DJones> Following on from that, on twitter for Queen_UK "Looking into making Mondays illegal" :)
<czajkowski> yeah ye kinda have a lot uring the summer then nothing  till christmas
<czajkowski> :/
<bigcalm> What's the desktop calender application of choice these days? One that will sync with google apps
<MartijnVdS> I just use the Google Calendar web interface
<MartijnVdS> it's also synced to my phone, which goes "ding" when I have something coming up
<JamesTait> Happy Hallowe'en! >:-D
<MooDoo> oh yeah so it is
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers just booked his bike test :-s
<MooDoo> daubers: awesome, :)
<BigRedS> daubers: whoop!
<daubers> hopefully I'll have it all done by december
<MooDoo> daubers: yay, ubuntu-uk bike ride :)
<daubers> heh
<daubers> Bikers to Oggcamp :)
<diplo> I want to do mine daubers
<diplo> Doing a all in one test ?
 * MooDoo did mine in 92, i'm so old
<diplo> MooDoo, I should have done mine back then
<daubers> diplo: No, am doing the DAS, but doing it over 2 weekends
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Taken my CBT 4 times over the years
<MooDoo> was easier back then
<diplo> If you don't mind, how much is it costing you daubers  ?
<popey> \o/ Gatwick
<MooDoo> o/
<popey> \o/ Blue Screen of Death on the indicator boards
<daubers> diplo: Doing it through the same place I did my CBT so they've taken that off... but it's still Â£565 all in
<diplo> :(
<daubers> popey: All the boards at cairo had a warning on them saying flash player 7 had crashed :)
<diplo> I'm findiong it hard to save the cash to pay for it atm
<daubers> diplo: Taken me 3 months to get that together
<diplo> Yeah, think more like 6-12 months for me :/
<daubers> yeah, I was looking at that, but had an unexpected bonus for being awesome
<schwuk> daubers: you'll love it - I did my DAS this time last year (in fact my Module 1 was a year ago tomorrow)
<daubers> schwuk: I'm fretting a tad about the size of the bike, but got a days tuition before hand, so hopefully will be fine!
<MooDoo> daubers: what you training on, a 125 or going for the big one straight away?
<daubers> MooDoo: Going straight to a larger one. Been riding a 125 for 18 months
<MooDoo> daubers: sweet :)
<daubers> Hopefully try and buy a 500 next year, then in a few years time get the then equivalent of a Pan Euro :)
<schwuk> daubers: I did my CBT on a 125 (obviously), then straight to a 650 for the DAS. I was struggling with the figure of eight, so borrowed my friend's Pan European (1100!) to practise on and been riding it ever since. You'll be fine. :)
<daubers> schwuk: I want one :( Been to the bike show 2 years running and sat and drooled at one
<MooDoo> :)
<daubers> ultimate aim is to go touring round europe on a nice bike with the missus
<MooDoo> sounds awesome.....
<schwuk> daubers: I love it. I prefer cruisers (and will by another one next year), but this Pan has been sitting in his drive for years so we share the running costs.
<MooDoo> i want a zx12 next, but it's only a pipe dream :D
<schwuk> daubers: same plan here
<daubers> schwuk: Heh, Ubuntu-UK goes to Europe :p
<MooDoo> yay!
<MooDoo> next summer we ought to meet up some where for a ride out
<daubers> MooDoo: If I have a bike by then, you're on :)
<MooDoo> :D
<popey> ooooh
<popey> 'go to gate'
<MooDoo> you're enjoying this aren't you popey?
<popey> hah
<popey> who wouldn't!
<popey> ttfn
<bigcalm> Have fun
<DJones> Enjoy yourself
<bigcalm> It's later than you think
<DJones> This might be handy for Virgin & spotify users http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42796/virgin-media-bundles-spotify-premium
<MooDoo> 6 months
<MartijnVdS> hey that looks familiar
<MartijnVdS> KPN is doing that as well over here
<sadsun> what kind of deal does kpn have?
<sadsun> ah we have spotify in the netherlands as well?
<MartijnVdS> sadsun: you get free Spotify Premium as long as you're their customer
<bigcalm> Heh
 * BigRedS seems to have missed the bike talk :(
<MartijnVdS> the bike talk?
<MartijnVdS> is that like the birds & bees talk?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: daubers is doing his test, and we're arranging ubuntu-uk bike rides  ;)
<BigRedS> I'm not bigcalm :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you're big<Tab>!
<MooDoo> rats
<kirrus> So, BigRedS is just Big?
<MooDoo> sorry BigRedS :)
<BigRedS> MooDoo: it's alright, everyone does it
<BigRedS> I think it annoys bigcalm more :)
 * bigcalm eyes the channel for a moment
<bigcalm> :P
<MartijnVdS> even though he's the calm one!
<bigcalm> I wouldn't say 'annoy' is the right term
<BigRedS> haha, anyway MooDoo, road trip to fosdem?
<BigRedS> well, day's ride or so if we're all on pans :)
<daubers> :( Won't be able to afford a pan for a little while
<MooDoo> pmsl, i'll stick to my bandit for the moment
<BigRedS> hmpf. Everybody needs a pan.
<daubers> BigRedS: Aim is to buy a pan (or equivalent at that point) in a couple of years
<oli> a pan?
<daubers> oli: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Manufacturers/Honda/Pan-European/
<oli> I see!
<andyc> Does anyone know if there's an easy way to customise an indicator applet?  I want to change the volume control launched by the sound indicator applet
<MartijnVdS> what do you want to change about it
<andyc> I used xubuntu and it launches the xfce mixer rather than the pulseaudio volume control
<andyc> s/used/use
<MartijnVdS> does xfce even use indicators?
<MartijnVdS> I thought it used "normal" notifications
<andyc> I have an indicator applet in my panel so I assume they've been added for xubuntu
<siya> Anyone aware of a replacement for xt or xtraceroute ?
<siya> Looking for a way to have a visually mapped traceroute
<siya> An online service to map a traceroute from text would make me equally happy right now
<MartijnVdS> siya: what are you trying to accomplish that doesn't work with the text-mode traceroute?
<siya> MartijnVdS, I want to see where each hop is located
<siya> I'm being routed via the USA to get to a host I know is in the UK
<siya> Just need to send my ISP something simple enough for their first line support
<MartijnVdS> siya: so it shuold do geoip?
<siya> yes
<MartijnVdS> because just because the hostname says "usa" doesn't mean it's there
<siya> mtr shows me the latency
<siya> http://www.yougetsignal.com/ shows me some of the hops are in the US
<MartijnVdS> it can be wrong too :)
<MartijnVdS> what's the IP?
<siya> MartijnVdS, I can see two transatlantic hops merely by looking at the RTT
<MartijnVdS> also, what are you going to do about it.. routing is automated these days
<siya> Contact my ISP as I had no such issue with my previous ISP
<siya> There must be something wrong with the transit they're getting
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't have to be wrong
<MartijnVdS> it could just be cheaper
<siya> I'm coming from home.geurtscass.com and going to 158.230.100.117 I know where the destination is because it's my customer in Slough...
<siya> Either way I'd like to let them know that I'm unhappy about it
<MartijnVdS> siya: sure but which hop is in the US according toyou
<MartijnVdS> a trace from my location to both of those go direct to the UK
<siya> te0-3-0-2.ccr21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com is where my packets enter the USA
<siya> 0.ge-1-2-0.IL2.DCA4.ALTER.NET is the last hop in the USA
<MartijnVdS> also, what's the problem with a few ms extra?
<siya> idnet >> cogentco >> Alter >> uuk(?) >> customer
<siya> a few msec? my ipsec vpn drops every 15 minutes or so. I see no need for introducing 170msec to my RTT, thank you very much ;)
<diplo> Mine goes via US as well, 200ms response for me as well
<diplo> Or via the same route :)
<diplo> That alter.net is owned by Verizon
<diplo> So defo US
<ali1234>   * *  *   *   *        /usr/bin/echo hello >> /mnt/pools/A/A0/Backups/test1.txt
<ali1234> what's wrong with that?
<BigRedS> does it start with whitespace?
<BigRedS> I've no idea if that's a problem...
<ali1234> it does yeah
<ali1234> it's a cron line
<ali1234> what happens it... test1.txt is created, but contains nothing
<BigRedS> oh
<ali1234> it should say hellohellohellohello after 4 minutes
<BigRedS> yeah
<rhysmorgan> Can anyone point me to some info on how to create two dhcp ranges in one dhcpd.conf?
<rhysmorgan> is it just a case of creating two pools?
<ali1234> ah, it's /bin/echo not /usr/bin/echo
<rhysmorgan> i.e. I would like 10.016.0-10.0.17.254 && 10.0.20.0-10.0.21.254
<Myrtti> hello Finland, you miserable little country >___<
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<MooDoo> hi AlanBell
<BigRedS> ali1234: aha!
<ishan> can someone help me out with ubuntu connection and updation issues?
<DJones> Seeing the discussion about UEFI and HP laptops had me panic a bit yesterday, I hadn't even realised my HP laptop used UEFI, it was only when I had notification of a UEFI/bios update that I realised
<BigRedS> DJones: what's the issue? Or is it just with the secured uefi
<BigRedS> ishan: probably, but not without knowing what the issues are :)
<DJones> BigRedS: I haven't had any issue, I just half expected the update to cause a problem, thankfully it didn't
<AlanBell> DJones: did you install from the 64 bit iso?
<DJones> Yes
<ishan> recently installed ubuntu 11.10. i access internet through proxy, but i havent been able to update anything from the software centre but the internet works just fine... whenever i try to get some update i am able to download most of it... but then it fails showing some repository issue or package could not be downloaded
<AlanBell> ishan: which package?
<ishan> alanbell: well i am new to this... so dont know much...
<ishan> i cant even download the codec to play media files...
<oli> ishan: if you could run sudo apt-get update from the command line, you'd [probably] see a better error message.
<ishan> or download synaptics package
<ishan> oli: should i paste the output here?
<BigRedS> does apt play nice with http proxies? Might be worth apting over ftp
<AlanBell> !pastebin
<lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<oli> ishan: if there's tons of it, stick it on... Yeah, that ^^
<ishan> oli: Ign http://archive.canonical.com oneiric InRelease Ign http://extras.ubuntu.com oneiric InRelease Get:1 http://archive.canonical.com oneiric Release.gpg [198 B] Get:2 http://extras.ubuntu.com oneiric Release.gpg [72 B]                   Hit http://archive.canonical.com oneiric Release                               Hit http://extras.ubuntu.com oneiric Release                           Hit http://archive.canonical.com oneiric/p
<ishan> W: GPG error: http://ftp.ussg.iu.edu oneiric Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com> W: GPG error: http://ftp.ussg.iu.edu oneiric-updates Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com> W: GPG error: http://ftp.ussg.iu.edu oneiric-backports Release: The foll
<ishan> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<AlanBell> what is iu.edu?
<ishan> oli: did you get that?
<Oli> One of the mirrors, I'd assume
<Oli> ishan: I'd suggest you change mirrors to the Main mirror and try that again. Run `software-properties-gtk` and under "Download from" select Main server
<Oli> Click Close and then run the sudo apt-get update
<Oli> BigRedS: We get quite a few issues about Apt and HTTP proxies on AskUbuntu. Even if the proxy is configures "system-wide", APT ignores it and has to be told separately what proxy to use.
<BigRedS> 'system-wide' only means 'In gnome' though, doesn't it?
<AlanBell> some proxies block the urls for the liboobs and  libsexy packages :)
<Oli> BigRedS: possibly - I thought it asked for root when you clicked system wide though (though that doesn't mean it's still only a variable read by gnome installations)
<BigRedS> Oli: yeah, I don't think any of the 'system wide' proxy settings actually do make a system-wide change, like edit the firewall. They all seem to just hope everyone else honours their standard..
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: they put stuff in the environment
<MartijnVdS> and that's pretty well agreed upon
<MartijnVdS> (http_proxy, ftp_proxy)
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> is there some problem with just telling iptables where to stick anything destined for :80 or :443, aside from not working on non-standard ports?
<BigRedS> oh, if the environment variables work, I suppose that's more simple and doesn't need changing
<ishan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/724312/
<ishan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/724312/
<ishan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/724312/
<czajkowski> UDS live video stream just went live http://t.co/uF3CPR7b
<Oli> ishan: you don't need to keep pasting it, it's still the latest message on all our screens (until now)
<ishan> apology
 * stevepdp is watching excitedly
<BigRedS> ishan: I think the problem is just that none of us are sure how to fix it
<Oli> UbuntuForums suggests there might be something crufty in there and multiple people suggest this works: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9697234&postcount=9
<andyc> Pulseaudio is awesome - got kraftwerk out of my speakers and UDS stream coming through my usb headphones
<Oli> ishan: But given you won't have aptitude installed, try `sudo apt-get update` instead (might not work the same, but it should)
<dwatkins> I wonder if there's a way to enable debug logging for ishan's download issue, assuming I've interpretted correctly
<Oli> andyc: Not too often you see people rejoicing PulseAudio :)
<Oli> ishan: and some people suggest that re-adding the signing key might work, per http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10971829&postcount=2
<dwatkins> ishan: I would use the -V option in a test update with apt-get to see what's going wrong, hopefully it'll say more about the downloads it's trying to do and we can pinpoint the relevant one
<ishan> dwatkins: and how exactly do you use the -v option?
<dwatkins> i.e. apt-get -V update
<Oli> Is there a higher res version of the UDS stream? I'm watching http://fragaria.canonical.com:8080/stream.flv but it's blurry as hell
<dwatkins> sorry, was making sure of the order
<Oli> Or is this just the Jono Distortion Field?
<dwatkins> ishan: better still: apt-get --print-uris update
<ishan> dwatkins: what i need to write is "sudo apt-get --print-uris update" right?
<dwatkins> ishan: yes
<ishan> dwatkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/724324/
<mediamgl> Hi. Is anyone connected via O2 home broadband at the moment? I can no longer access Ubuntu and Canonical servers... Just trying to diagnose if it is my set-up (hasn't changed) or something that O2 may have changed.  :-s
<smittix> Anyone know if iTunes syncs with an iPhone in virtual box?
<iclebyte> smittix, it will do yea
<dwatkins> ishan: I don't know what's going wrong, perhaps it's an issue with the signatures or your machine's ability to verify them locally. I'd check that networking is working properly (i.e. DNS isn't giving erroneous results) and ask on  #ubuntu
<iclebyte> if you get the usb working correctly
<smittix> No Windows/Mac Machines here so I have to find a decent way of doing it.
<ishan> dwatkins: i use proxy for internet.... could that be the reason?
<dwatkins> ishan: perhaps, yes - can you bypass the proxy?
<dwatkins> (just as a test)
<ishan> dwatkins: well i am in an educational facility... dont think thats gonna be possible...
<ishan> and even if i manage this once...
<ishan> what about the rest of the times when i need to update...
<ishan> ?
<dwatkins> ishan: can your browser access the pages it cites in your original error as "Failed to fetch..."?
<ishan> well i cant see any failed to fetch in the terminal.
<dwatkins> Your pastebin text shows several of these.
<dwatkins> It says there's "No Hash entry" so I wonder if the proxy returned something other than the actual file to your Ubuntu machine.
<ishan> well the first pastebin entry or the second?
<dwatkins> first
<ishan> SHA1:  3cd09b07b6507a5dc0ab5766f7417e8fa8a61b0c 1190 Translation-en.bz2
<ishan> this is what i am getting
<ishan> dwatkins: i dont think the browser is able to open....
<dwatkins> Getting when?
<ishan> when i try to open the failed to fetch web page
<ishan> on the browser..
<dwatkins> Which file is this? Can you test with wget at the command line to see if the server gets it ok, or is returned some kind of proxy authentication page or something?
<ishan> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-updates/multiverse/i18n/Index
<ishan> i was trying to open this on the browser...
<ishan> and this is what i got...
<ishan> SHA1:  3cd09b07b6507a5dc0ab5766f7417e8fa8a61b0c 1190 Translation-en.bz2
<ishan> and what do you want me to try?
<ishan> also at times i can start the update/download...
<ishan> but almost near the end it gets stuck saying package now available or repository not available
<dwatkins>  wget -q -O - http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-updates/multiverse/i18n/Index
<dwatkins> Quietly get the file and output to the terminal.
<ishan> dwatkins: it produces the same result as the browser
<dwatkins> in that case I don't know what's going wrong, sorry.
<ishan>  wget -q -O - http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-updates/multiverse/i18n/Index
<ishan> dwatkins: allright....
<ishan> can you suggest somewhere i can get help?
<dwatkins> I did ;)
<dwatkins> Join the channel #ubuntu and ask there :)
<dwatkins> You may have luck googling the errors, I don't know.
<ishan> well you were of great help sure...
<dwatkins> Sorry
<AlanBell> ishan: not the very best time to ask, lots of people are watching the keynote speech at the Ubuntu developer summit
<dwatkins> Also, I tried my best.
<AlanBell> yes
<smittix> AlanBell: Is there a live stream at all?
<bigcalm> <czajkowski> UDS live video stream just went live http://t.co/uF3CPR7b
<MooDoo> oh yeah, there's mark :)
<bigcalm> Does it require flash?
<smittix> Who's Mark?
 * smittix hides
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah
<MartijnVdS> smittix: one of the UUPC presenters, right?
<bigcalm> Oh, apparently not
<MooDoo> smittix: he's the founder of fedora ;)
<dwatkins> oh interesting
<bigcalm> Hang on
<bigcalm> :(
<smittix> MooDoo: Ahh!
<MooDoo> smittix: you are kidding right?
<bigcalm> I thought I had flash removed from this system
 * MooDoo isn't quite sure
<smittix> MooDoo: Of course
<smittix> haha
<MooDoo> :p
<ali1234> my internet cut out, what did he just say?
<bigcalm> Oh well, it's playing :S
<bigcalm> Nothing
<dwatkins> bigcalm: you could stream it manually from the file in the source with VLC I imagine
<MooDoo> works ok in chrome
<Oli> Or Totem.
<smittix> Sure Can, That's how I am streaming at the mo.
<smittix> Bah auto focus
<Oli> Just stick http://fragaria.canonical.com:8080/stream.flv in
<Oli> ZOOM!
<MartijnVdS> fedora.canonical.com -- see? it's starting
<bigcalm> I heard that as 'Arms tech' Not "ARM's tech"
<ali1234> i spent the first half of the keynote thinking "what's OM?"
<czajkowski> I met davmor2
<czajkowski> and didnt kill him
<czajkowski> did poke him though
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oh what a let down
<bigcalm> Haha
<czajkowski> Pendulum: can attest to it
<MooDoo> czajkowski: thought you were tougher than that
<Pendulum> MooDoo: he poked her first. war has been declared
<bigcalm> czajkowski: please try not to kill him, he's in charge of the monthly work from home work place day
<MooDoo> Pendulum: sick him ;)
 * bigcalm needs to get out of the house more offten
<czajkowski> bigcalm: co working spaces are the way forward
<bigcalm> Anybody clapping at home?
<smittix> I just Yahoo'd
<MartijnVdS> smittix: And?
<bigcalm> 404?
<smittix> Found out it's a search engine.
<MartijnVdS> smittix: they're just a front-end for Bing now right?
<smittix> or "was"
<smittix> What's Bing?
<MartijnVdS> MS Google
<smittix> Thought so.
<bigcalm> From the Google family
<smittix> Is google that place with the big search engine? what's it called again?.. Lycos?
<MartijnVdS> don't you mean Altavista or HotBot?
<MartijnVdS> (do those still exist?)
<bigcalm> Was Lycos the one with the dog?
<smittix> Altavista does.
<smittix> bigcalm: indeed
 * bigcalm remembers Astalavista with fondness ;)
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MooDoo> czajkowski: give pleia2 a hug for me :)
<bigcalm> He can't keep still!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ?!
<bigcalm> The presenter from the video stream I linked to
<czajkowski> MooDoo: tick DONE
<smittix> Speaking of old stuff, I need to update my version of Mosaic Web Browser.
<MooDoo> czajkowski: thank you :)
<bigcalm> Speaking of old stuff, when does popey expect to get to UDS?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: about 9 hours
<smittix> heh
<DJones> I'd guess it'll be early evening uk time, wasn't it about an 8 hour flight with him leaving about 10:30-11am (uk times)
<Pendulum> did his flight get out?
<Pendulum> last I heard he was delayed
<DJones> I think he got away
<MooDoo> last ggogle+ was "goodby cloudy gatwick"
<Pendulum> :D
<DJones> http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/130976568746061824/photo/1
<bigcalm> Chinny!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no, Raving Racoon is 13.04 ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> I think Jono is trying to be American :S
<bigcalm> Aq!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: he's been trying for years ;)
<ali1234> so many nerds
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ever since he married an American :)
<bigcalm> Jono and Aq are the only 2 I've noticed so far
<bigcalm> Is this the only live stream from UDS?
<bigcalm> Shorts :S I guess it's warm there still
<daubers> Hmm... Asus are saying they have HDD inventory until the end of November
<bigcalm> Has SSD production been affected in the same way as HDD?
<clockwatch> What's the problem with HDDs?
<daubers> clockwatch: Flooding in Thailand has annihalated production
<sadsun> they are slow?
<daubers> bigcalm: Don't think so
<Oli> I think it's going to be a good excuse to raise the prices of everything for a while.
<BigRedS> Oli: I'm rather hoping SSD manufacturers use it as an opportunity to keep costs as they are and suddenly be even more competetive
<Oli> Ha!
<BigRedS> but, no doubt, spinning disk mfrs will need to raise costs to earn the money to replace what broke
<BigRedS> Oli: They could clearly do with it. I suspect the premium ones will get more expensive and the cheapo ones less so
<webmobster> @search Analysis: With an Introduction to Proof
<Oli> Some people suggest the price rise is over 100% in the UK (I haven't tracked any real prices so they may be BS) but that sort of rise at the lower capacity is going to drive people to SSDs and that's going to impact on SSD supplies, spiking their prices too. You see similar things when a single major component supplier has issues - everybody else makes a fortune from it.
<MartijnVdS> 2T disks went up 100% in .nl
<bigcalm> Anybody want some PATA discs? I have 9 recently pulled from old machines
<hamitron> bigcalm, how big?
<Oli> Rofl, I step away for two minutes and now there appears to be somebody lying on their back on the UDS main stage
<bigcalm> 3.5"
<hamitron> I mean capacity
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> hamitron: I think they range from 10gb to 40gb
<bigcalm> I'm likely to take a hammer to them
<hamitron> why? :|
<bigcalm> Because of the content
<hamitron> ah
<bigcalm> I cba to connect up each one for a low level format
<hamitron> I guess it is one way of securing data easy
<hamitron> but can't you format 4 at once with a usb boot disk?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> assuming you have an old crappy comp like me
<buzz_> where are all the ppa i386 builders :/
<buzz_> seems everytime i upload some stuff to my ppa, the builders have been taken away to go and do something else.
<buzz_> i386 	6 	68 jobs (3 hours 40 minutes)
<brobostigon> hsdpa + android/screen + irssi + bitlbee, to the rescue. :)
<The_Fred> hello
<tonytiger> Hi The_Fred
<The_Fred> what the channel for ubuntu networking please?
<tonytiger> I don't think there is one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<The_Fred> i was just looking there
<MooDoo> The_Fred: what did you having in mind?  just ubuntu chit chat?  or you after an ubuntu contact in your area for a specific reason?
<The_Fred> i've a networking problem and im utterly stuck
<The_Fred> ive search channel list but there seems to be no networking channel
<MooDoo> The_Fred: ask away, if there is anyone who can help you in here they will
<kirrus> The_Fred: best to just ask for help in here, or #ubuntu. We don't split channel types for different Ubuntu-related problems :)
<The_Fred> Thanks MooDoo , the problem is on my desktop network manager is not playing- so Im trying to connect to a wireless connection (I have the key) but its not connecting
<kirrus> The_Fred: can you describe what is happening when you try to connect? What do you mean by the desktop network manager not playing? :)
<MooDoo> The_Fred: what version of ubuntu are you using, i had a similar issue, and it was down to the driver i was using
<MooDoo> when ubuntu does it's hardware check if found two drivers for my wireless card, one didn't work, i tried the other :)
<The_Fred> The desktop runs 10.04 lts, and i've somehow lost network manager - i tried starting the applet but it threw an error
<The_Fred> The card is claimed, and with iwlist wlan1 scan I can see the ap
<The_Fred> all goes well until it get to iwconfig wlan1 key restricted XXXXX
<The_Fred> it throws an error: SET failed on device wlan1; invalid arugment
<MartijnVdS> why are you trying to set a WEP key manually?
<czajkowski> more poking of davmor2
<jacobw> which instructions are you following?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: poke him for me please :)
<The_Fred> MartijnVdS, because I cannot get network manager to start
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, stab, kick, hug I'm not sure will upset you most
<czajkowski> NO KICKING
<czajkowski> we're not in a stables my dear
<The_Fred> jacobw, I've been following the instructions from all over google
<jacobw> ifconfig wlanX up; iwconfig wlanX essid Y; iwconfig wlanX Z ?
<jacobw> The_Fred: you can't set a WPA key with iwconfig
<The_Fred> its a WEP key
<jacobw> how are you trying to start nm-applet?
<The_Fred> via terminal
<MartijnVdS> and is network-manager actually running? is there anything in the log (/var/log/something)
<The_Fred> when I try nm-applet &      It throws a lot of errors about service files
<The_Fred> checking log messages now
<MartijnVdS> sounds like dbus problems
<The_Fred> there is one particular message ... MASQUERADE:  lo ate my IP address ????
<jacobw> odd
<The_Fred> yup
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: HAve you manually configured things wrt. the network?
<MartijnVdS> MASQUERADE would be firewalling/NAT related
<The_Fred> yea, I WAS trying (about 2 month ago) to share a net connection over bluetooth... im not sure what I've done to it now :-(
<The_Fred> MartijnVdS, I've edited the /etc/network/interaces
<The_Fred> *interfaces
<MartijnVdS> that will also be why network-manager doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> it looks at /etc/network/interfaces to see which devices it should manage
<The_Fred> no, it was because network manager would not start that I had to manulay edit interfaces
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: my /etc/network/interfaces has two lines:
<MartijnVdS> auto lo
<MartijnVdS> iface lo inet loopback
<MartijnVdS> everything else is automagic
<The_Fred> there is:
<The_Fred> auto lo
<The_Fred> iface lo inet loopback
<The_Fred> auto wlan1
<The_Fred> iface wlan1 inet dhcp
<MartijnVdS> Remove the wlan1 lines -- network-manager won't pick up wlan1 if they're in /etc/network/interfaces
<MartijnVdS> you might have to restart network-manager after editing /etc/network/interfaces
<The_Fred> ok, i'll try that now
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: something also seems to be setting iptables rules, you might want to disable those too
<The_Fred> ok, thats the interfaces file stripped as suggested
<The_Fred> yes, there was something i did about iptables - i cant recall what right now
<The_Fred> so, to start network manager applet, its just : sudo nm-applet & ?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> don't start nm-applet as root
<MartijnVdS> start it as yourself
<The_Fred> ok, thanks
<The_Fred> hmm, WARNING: constructor() couldnt initialise the D-Bus manager
<The_Fred> thats from when I did me@desktop$ nm-applet &
<The_Fred> the icon has appeared, but there's a grey'd out box under it with "NetworkManager is not running" in it...
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: can you check in /etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf if the line with "daemon.*" on it is commented or not? (# in front)
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: if so, remove the # on that line
<MartijnVdS> then:
<MartijnVdS> sudo restart rsyslog
<MartijnVdS> then:
<MartijnVdS> sudo restart network-manager
<MartijnVdS> then check /var/log/daemon.log
<The_Fred> MartijnVdS, in rsyslog.conf, there is no comment (assuming comments begin with #?)
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: then only do the sudo restart network-manager bit and check /var/log/daemon.log
<The_Fred> I got: Unknown job: network-manager
<MartijnVdS> /etc/init.d/network-manager restart
<MartijnVdS> that then?
<The_Fred> command not found
<MartijnVdS> sounds like you removed the network-manager daemon
<MartijnVdS> or at least its init scripts
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: apt-get install network-manager
<The_Fred> I'm not sure what I did now - i've moved house since I tried to share net connect over bluetooth :-(
<The_Fred> network manager is already the newest version.
<MartijnVdS> well it's not a good sign if those commands don't work
<The_Fred> yea - i think im going to download the network-manager deb (et al) via this pc and save to usb drive or install
<The_Fred> MartijnVdS, many thanks for your help
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: if you install that with dpkg --force-confnew -i file.deb
<MartijnVdS> The_Fred: you should get any config files (files in /etc) back
<The_Fred> thats brilliant - thanks for the heads-up
<MartijnVdS> sorry
<MartijnVdS> force-confmiss
<smittix> Bloody Trick or Treaters
 * jacobw mails smittix some haribo
<smittix> everytime i sit down, theres another knock at the door? don't these kids have computers?
<smittix> heh
<MartijnVdS> smittix: Time for a shotgun :)
<smittix> Trying to read up on bash scripting.
<MartijnVdS> smittix: the Advanced Bash Scripting Guide?
<smittix> Yarr
<smittix> well, im trying to make myself a script that customises a new install for me.
<jacobw> is bash's vi mode common knowledge?
<kirrus> jacobw: bash's vi mode?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it's actually libreadline's vi mode
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: ah ha
<jacobw> kirrus: set -o vi
<MartijnVdS> and then you get lots of beeps and curses because of "edit mode" vs "insert mode"
<kirrus> Strange
<kirrus> I think I'll stick to ordinary bash
<smittix> Im trying to find out how to replace a word in a file
<kirrus> sed -i 's/old-word/new-word/' filename
<smittix> well thats one customisation done.
<smittix> heh
<smittix> ta
<kirrus> smittix: that should replace the first instance of the word. If you want to replace all instances, use ...'new-word/g'
<smittix> should be only one instance of the word anyway.
<kirrus> smittix: if you want it to make a backup, incase you screwed up the regex, use -i.bak (or -bak, or whatever). It'll make a copy of the file from before sed had at it, with .bak on the end of the filename
<jacobw> catonmat.net has lots of bash and utils material
<smittix> jacobw: Thanks ill check that out.
<andyc> kirrus, I never knew that... I'll remember that one!
<Oli> Woot. New Humble Indie "Bundle"! http://www.humblebundle.com/
<andyc> (Using -i.nabk)
<jacobw> \o/
<smittix> I would really like to create a gui version of this but wouldnt know where to start. I could do it in VB but ...
<MartijnVdS> Oli: ANOTHER bundle?
<MartijnVdS> Oli: they do 5 a year now?
<jacobw> smittix: pygtk
<Oli> Apparently :) I'm not complaining. I'm getting tons of Linux-native games through it
<MartijnVdS> Oli: I've bought 2 bundles, but I never play the games :(
 * jacobw investigates whether zenity is still usable
<Oli> MartijnVdS: That's sad :( They're good games.
<MartijnVdS> Oli: Sure, but I just forget about them or something
<MartijnVdS> It's not that I don't _want_ to play them
<jacobw> smittix: http://library.gnome.org/users/zenity/stable/
<Oli> VVVVVV was a real gem in the last bundle-bundle
<jacobw> smittix: gui dialogues from shell scripts
<smittix> Is zenity installed by default?
<smittix> I really should learn python or something
<smittix> I Tried using quickly create, it didnt turn out well.
<directhex> monodevelop!
<jacobw> is that a suggestion or a command ;)
<MartijnVdS> it's abuse ;)
<jacobw> hehe
<BigRedS> Man, AWS is rubbish.
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, as in Amazon?
<BigRedS> KrisDouglas: yeah. That or our customer's missed the point
<BigRedS> the only way in is ssh
<BigRedS> which makes debugging boot problems a tad tricky
<jpds> BigRedS: euca-get-console-output ?
<KrisDouglas> BigRedS, I never really liked the idea
<KrisDouglas> I failed to see how it was cheaper than our rack in notts.
<jpds> KrisDouglas: No need to buy servers, colo, power, ... ?
<BigRedS> jpds: yeah, boot messages imply it's up, but I can't ssh in
<kirrus> KrisDouglas: the main plus is the ability to dynamically scale
<BigRedS> so I wanna plug a monitor and keyboard in...
<jpds> BigRedS: Check that SSH is in the security group?
<BigRedS> yeah, on around 15% of boots it works
<BigRedS> but I think half the point of this cloudy thing is that when this happens I spawn a new instance and kill this one
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, proddy, prod, prod
<bigcalm> Having fun there davmor2?
<davmor2> bigcalm: you have to right, I'm still alive so I haven't annoyed czajkowski enough obviously :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: that or I'm tougher to kill than expected
<bigcalm> :)
<czajkowski> it's day 1
<bigcalm> Which will bruise 1st - czajkowski's skin or davmor2's finger?
<davmor2> bigcalm: my skin from czajkowski thumping more realistically
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> I got a good one in
<Pendulum> czajkowski: well done
<davmor2> czajkowski: thank god if that was a good one I'll still be alive at the end of the week :P
<smittix> anyone use indicator-sysmonitor?
<czajkowski> davmor2: see now challenge accepted
<geekMePlease> Where can you find the list of re-released ubuntu 11.10 packages?
<geekMePlease> I am wondering if there is any fix to the network manager.
<geekMePlease> * to get Huawei E367 working with 11.10
<tonytiger> geekMePlease: what do you mean by re-released?
<mrevell> Thanks everyone on IRC
<mrevell> oops, wrong channel
 * czajkowski pats mrevell noggin 
 * gord thanks everyone on irc anyway
<Pendulum> gord: I am sorry about the tea. If you find me, I will explain
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Video of the Week: Humble Voxatron Debut - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/10/video-of-the-week-humble-voxatron-debut/
<christel> AlanBell: are you doing anything exciting for bonfire night?
 * bigcalm tickles christel
 * christel tickles bigcalm 
 * bigcalm turns to jelly
<bigcalm> How are you my dear?
<mattt> no tickling in here
<ishan> some real help needed...
<ishan> concerning networking issues..
<ishan> stuck over the same issue for over a week...
<ishan> help!!!
<mgdm> what's wrong?
<ishan> well i recently installed 11.10
<ishan> and i use proxy for internet..
<ishan> the browser works just fine...
<ishan> but i cant just seem make a download...
<ishan> or update...
<ishan> the update starts and then gets stuck towards the end...
<mgdm> where did you set the proxy?
<ishan> in the browser as well as system wide setting...
<ishan> it shows various errors...
<ishan> packet not found...
<ishan> badsig
<ishan> repository not found...
<ishan> it always starts updating cache and then leaves in the middle...
<ishan> it asks me to check my internet settings
<ishan> i dont know what to do
<mgdm> Hmmm
<ishan> any ideas?
<mgdm> Not right now, I'm not running that version so i can't really test it
<ishan> any idea where can i get some help?
<mgdm> #ubuntu, but it's a bit busy
<ishan> i know...
<ishan> i have tried everywhere but to no good...
<ishan> i just cant seem to find a way out of this...
<ishan> cant even play any media files cause i just cant update...
<ishan> !
<AlanBell> christel: going away, and kids are off to grandparents, so no, not going to the farnham fireworks this time
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-01
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 1 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/01/uds-p-day-1/
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> moin
<NET||abuse> hey guys.. ubuntu 11.10, can't find padevchooser
<NET||abuse> doesn't seem to be in repos
<NET||abuse> anyone know if it's been bundled into something else?
<NET||abuse> online manpages seems to think it should exist under oneiric
<NET||abuse> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/man1/padevchooser.1.html
<NET||abuse> but it's not showing up for me
<MooDoo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+package/padevchooser
<TheOpenSourcerer> info !padevchooser
<TheOpenSourcerer> !info padevchooser
<lubotu3`> padevchooser (source: padevchooser): PulseAudio Device Chooser. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.3-2ubuntu4 (natty), package size 19 kB, installed size 132 kB
<NET||abuse> maybe my sources aren't fully setup?
<NET||abuse> nope, seems i have universe and multiverse
<NET||abuse> but that's a natty entry
<DJones> NET||abuse: Doesn't show up at all in a packages search for 11.10
<DJones> NET||abuse: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/padevchooser/+bug/851695
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 851695 in padevchooser (Ubuntu) "padevchooser is missing in Ubuntu 11.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<DJones> NET||abuse: It was unmaintained and has been replaced by pavucontrol
<DJones> But then people have commented that its not a full replacement and the bug seems to be open and confirmed now
<NET||abuse> hmm, so can i stream my music from my no-speaker desktop to my laptop headphones easily wit pavucontrol?
<NET||abuse> seems not
<DJones> Looks like you'll have to keep an eye on that bug
<bigcalm> Hiya peeps :)
<AlanBell> !info gedit
<lubotu3`> gedit (source: gedit): official text editor of the GNOME desktop environment. In component main, is optional. Version 2.30.4-2ubuntu1 (natty), package size 515 kB, installed size 1860 kB
<AlanBell> hmm, bot thinks it should be returning natty info
<NET||abuse> AlanBell: no, just the last change to the package was in May for natty
<NET||abuse> well, possibly it just has that as the last record?
<NET||abuse> !info subversion
<lubotu3`> subversion (source: subversion): Advanced version control system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.6.12dfsg-4ubuntu2.1 (natty), package size 275 kB, installed size 1148 kB
<ali1234> this happens every time
<NET||abuse> or not,, :)
<AlanBell> NET||abuse: yeah, separate issue, the bot should be pointing at oneiric
<NET||abuse> gotcha, i see now
<ali1234> if you go into #ubuntu+1 you get oneiric packages
<ali1234> at least you would do if it was open
<AlanBell> the lubottus have not been updated, will get that sorted
<AlanBell> ubottu has been, someone forgot the loco bots
<DJones> AlanBell: I thought +1 had been left open this time
<AlanBell> +1 should be looking at precise now
<DJones> I guess it should be
<AlanBell> normally they just redirect to #ubuntu for a week or so to clear out people just interested in betas
<AlanBell> then open up for alpha level breakages
<Twinkletoes> When using dpkg to install a .deb downloaded from a vendor (in this case, OpenVPN), and it needs dependencies, can dpkg do this for you or is it a manual install for each one using apt?
<awilkins> Twinkletoes, I think you can install it using dpkg, then do an apt-get install -f to fix missing pacakges
<dwatkins> apt-get -f install
<awilkins> Or that
<Twinkletoes> Aha... thank yu - sounds like a good idea
<Twinkletoes> I know what you mean
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - My google reader seems to have lost it's tags
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/its
<daubers> Morning
 * smittix is getting frustrated
<smittix> Can't even create a button with quickly-create
<smittix> heh
<mattt> morning morning
<MooDoo> morning
<daubers> smittix: Using quickly design?
<daubers> Will run up glade for gui editing
<smittix> Yeah I have added a button its the coding side of things
<smittix> Keep getting 'expected handler 'on_button1_clicked'
<daubers> So you haven't written an on_button1_clicked method yet?
<kirrus> Please tell me I'm not the only one thinking Google broke a perfectly-working reader? :(
<MooDoo> kirrus: think TheOpenSourcerer has an issue as well
<Myrtti> other than not finding the promised +1 button in the new reader, I don't really have a problem with it
<kirrus> I always read full item content, can't find a way to turn it back on
<kirrus> At this rate I'm just gunna have to setup a planet..
<JamesTait> Goooood mooooorning all! :D
<Myrtti> oh man
<kirrus> JamesTait: you're rather exuberant this grey morning :)
<Myrtti> I'm so demotivated
<Myrtti> well, feeling demotivated
<smittix> daubers: the code I have written is def on_button1_clicked(self, widget, data=None): print "OPEN"
<JamesTait> Myrtti: How come? Would a hug help?
<Myrtti> JamesTait: flying from UK to Finland basically just to go say hi to jobcentre ladies and to hear "because Nokia" is a bit demotivating. Also the weather is dull and depressing
<daubers> smittix: Can you pastebin that whole file?
<smittix> will do
<smittix> daubers: http://pastebin.com/di7i1VyM
<bigcalm> Read that as "whole file system"
<daubers> smittix: It needs to be part of the class (i.e. it needs indenting one more) :)
<smittix> daubers: heh thanks.
<smittix> What a dumbass.
<JamesTait> Myrtti: I also struggle with the weather at this time of the year. It's bright outside at the moment, but I know it's not going to last, which kind of makes it worse.
<TheOpenSourcerer> kirrus: http://googlereader.blogspot.com/
<JamesTait> Myrtti: But I'm thankful for being a part of such a great community.
<smittix> daubers: Can I run bash commands from within python? ie; sed?
<daubers> smittix: You'll need to use one of the shell calling things (i.e. os.system)
<smittix> daubers: I'll read up on that thanks
<BigRedS> hosq
<BigRedS> oops
<czajkowski> *yawns*
<kirrus> BigRedS: so, it's my turn to go to tesco and get coffee then?
<czajkowski> with the rate I'm going I'll go back to UK and still wake up at stupid am
<tonytiger> hah
<tonytiger> nice blog post czajkowski
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski wake up
<tonytiger> It's been too long since I went to a UDS: I almost wish I was there :)
<czajkowski> Myrtti: oi you quit it, Ihhave davmor2 poking and prodding me in RL
<czajkowski> tonytiger: cheers tis a handy way of seeint what people do a s well
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you mean MooDoo don't you ;)
<czajkowski> todays sessions a bit harder not sure what I'll go to
<czajkowski> MooDoo: yes you stupid tab complete
<czajkowski> Myrtti: hi
<bigcalm> Heh, I have a customer ID of 254 on somebody's system. This pleases me in a geeky way
<czajkowski> tonytiger: tis ok you still have an action item :)
<tonytiger> "great"
<czajkowski> tonytiger: no no you need to say Thaaaat's Great like the realy kellogs Tiger
<czajkowski> <---- maybe a slightly sleep deprivied
<tonytiger> :)
<tonytiger> Yeah, you're making more sense than normal
<bigcalm> Bwuhaha
<czajkowski> :/
 * bigcalm hugs czajkowski
 * MooDoo hugs bigcalm hugging czajkowski 
<czajkowski> we had to explain the concet of poking and prodding and naughty step last night to people
<czajkowski> dear gods they think it's entertaining
<MooDoo> pmsl
 * JamesTait was born on the 255th day of the year (256th in leap years).
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> czajkowski: it is :)
 * MooDoo was born on the 15 April 1972 as was my wife, son was born 10 09 08 and daughter was born 10 09 11 :)  4 family members 2 birthdays!
<bigcalm> MooDoo: and just as expensive
<JamesTait> MooDoo: Wow, now that took some planning. :-P
<MooDoo> bigcalm: 18th and 21st on same day :)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: nah crap telly at christmas ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you never have  an excuse that you forgot her bday
<JamesTait> MooDoo: More booze too!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i know...
<JamesTait> MooDoo: Recently, February has been the time of rubbish TV. Hence my two boys' birthdays are within the same week in November.
<MooDoo> hehe
<MooDoo> just think it's cool we have birthdays on the same day :)
<JamesTait> MooDoo: Extremely cool.
<bigcalm> I like to forget my own b'day
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm forgetting mine next year
<JamesTait> bigcalm: At least I have something do deflect the attention every fourth year.  MooDoo has no excuse. ;)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: Hayley and I are off to Ireland for her 40th nexy year
<bigcalm> Really should save up a little more for it
<MooDoo> bigcalm: nice :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm hoping to go see les Mis in london but little un might be a bit too young to leave with people
<bigcalm> Aww
<czajkowski> bigcalm: what parts?
<czajkowski> that has a massive effect on spending
<czajkowski> avoidnd dublin gives you more to spend elsewhere
<czajkowski> going oto dublin very costly
<bigcalm> czajkowski: we still haven't decided fully. Though we both want to see the Giant's Causeway
<czajkowski> oh up in NI
<MooDoo> i might take bec to dublin for the weekend soon
<bigcalm> Yes, but we're not limiting outselves to IRE or NI
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I think that the G'sC is the only thing that we've both decided upon so far. Everything else is an option :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: cool, so at present you;'re going to NI not Ire :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: dpending o where you are, you can fly into galway/knock or shannon and see west cost a lot prettier if you want a weekend away and see some sights
<smittix> does anyone know how to open the startup applications app from the terminal?
<czajkowski> head to Galway sooo pretty
<bigcalm> czajkowski: in the past you have nit-picked about me saying NI rather than just Ireland
<czajkowski> no I always say there is a differrenciation, I will say I'm from ie, but I dont go to NI  it's when people say am I from the south of Ireland I nit pit
<tonytiger> czajkowski: how long till stuff starts over there?
<czajkowski> breakine start now
<czajkowski> sessions kick off aat 9
<czajkowski> leadershummit this afternoon will be interesting
<czajkowski> *leadership summit
<tonytiger> So it's what time there now?
<czajkowski> tonytiger: 6:38
<mattt> czajkowski: what do you do within ubuntu?
<AlanBell> 9 is 1pm here
<czajkowski> been up since 5
<bigcalm> mattt: she just abuses their employees
<czajkowski> mattt: I'm on the Ubuntu LocOc council EMEA membership board and the community council, I do Ubuntu advoacy and a lot of usability testing lately
<tonytiger> OK so two and a bit hours to go
<czajkowski> I also tend to rant a a lot
<czajkowski> mostly about rugby :)
<MooDoo> mattt: you don't know who czajkowski is?  shame on you ;)
<MooDoo> mattt: czajkowski does indeed rant....;)
<mattt> czajkowski: thank goodness you're not english, or the ranting would be never-ending
<czajkowski> we're going to  have another loco council session as yesterdays was really good but we ran out of time
<mattt> MooDoo: vaguely :)
<jacobw> sounds interesting :)
<bigcalm> popey is alive then
<DJones> So it appears
<popey> :D
<popey> sucking internet in room
<bigcalm> Hello popey
<popey> hi
<tonytiger> s/internet/.../
<bigcalm> tonytiger's head is full of slurping noises :S
<smittix> Can "sed" change a line in all files within a directory?
<ali1234> yes
<kirrus> smittix: just change sed -i 'matching regex' filename to sed -i 'matching regex' file list or *
<smittix> ta
<AlanBell> there is a UDS session at 2PM called "Meet with the Ubuntu Desktop Designers"
<iclebyte> anyone found heartbeat to be unreliable?
<bigcalm> Think it will be a busy one?
<AlanBell> very probably
<bigcalm> Full of angry/bewildered people?
<iclebyte> i'm angry and bewildered
<iclebyte> with heartbeat
<iclebyte> and the apprentice
<DJones> Heartbeat and The Apprentice? Sounds like too much tv :)
<NET||abuse> Hmm , anyone use Cloudmin before?
<NET||abuse> stuck it on a 11.10 server and all has worked out well so far.
<NET||abuse> setting up some vm's for testing stuff here, but wanted a nice management tool
<NET||abuse> seems relatively simple so far, anyone else got experience with it?
<kirrus> iclebyte: Nope, never had any problems with reliability with heartbeat. It's always been rock-solid for me
<popey> morning all!
<bigcalm> The 2nd second awakening
<DJones> Morning (just about)
<Guest38501> g'day all. I have a general networking in linux question.
<Guest38501> When I assign a static IP I lose connection to the domain and can not ping the domain server. When I use DHCP it works just fine
<Guest38501> The DHCP server starts giving out addresses from 170 and up but the servers are int he 25 range
<Guest38501> I need this box to be 25-40 range
<mattt> NET||abuse: never even heard of cloudmin
<mattt> if it's anything like webmin *puke*
<tonytiger> Guest38501: is the domain controller on the same subnet?
<tonytiger> Also, you will need to manually specify DNS servers on the client as well as IP address, subnet mask and gateway
<Guest38501> The company is in the middle of a merge. My address range is 10.30.60.0 and theirs is 192.168.1.0. Their domain controller is what we need to connect to is 192.168.1.6
<Guest38501> My OpenFire server is 10.38.60.27 locally but I can not ping the AD controller to get accounts
<Guest38501> *their AD controller
<Guest38501> I've set rosolv.conf to nameserver 192.
<Guest38501> *192.168.1.6 and 10.38.60.8
<Guest38501> (my gateway)
<andysimons> how many people here are at UDS?
<MooDoo> wish i was
<gord> Happy mailman day!
<MooDoo> oh crap yeah, forgot abotu that
<bigcalm> I find it rare to get any mail from mailman these days, let alone on the 1st of each month
<smittix> Does anyone here use quickly?
<ali1234> i used it once
<oimon> MooDoo: ping
<MooDoo> oimon: no one here but us chickens
<oimon> yay
<oimon> have a quick question sir if you have the time
<oimon> regarding htc desire
<MooDoo> i''ll try
<MooDoo> ok
<oimon> it seems i ahve S-ON
<oimon> although i have CM7 installed
<oimon> were you able to permanently choose S-OFF?
<MooDoo> oimon: i'm not sure what it is.....
<MooDoo> just reading
<smittix> ali1234: ahh, just having problems publishing my app.
<oimon> basically it's stopping me frmo upgrading clockworkmod recovery
<oimon> which i need before upgrading CM70.3.->7.1.0
<MooDoo> yeah i'm just going to reboto mine and have a look
<ali1234> smittix: publishing?
<oimon> MooDoo: i thought you updated CM regualrly?
<Myrtti> quick question, what's the VAT in UK at the moment?
<smittix> ali1234: Uploading to my ppa
<MooDoo> oimon: i normally do use the daily build, but just upload the zip to my phone and use the rom manager
<oimon> yeah, even that isn't working for moi
<Myrtti> 20
<Myrtti> ok.
<Oli> Yeah 20%. Just smashing.
<MooDoo> oimon: i'm not sure then, i'll have a read and see if i can find anything
<oimon> ah, don't worry , i'll try running unrevoked again
<MooDoo> ok sorry
<oimon> np
<oimon> :D
<Myrtti> I can't fathom why this site displays engagement prices with Â£XXXX+VAT. Surely it's a b2c sales and nobody buys engagement rings without paying VAT?!?!?!
<Myrtti> baffling
<NET||abuse> hmm, looking at new phone on contract, Samsung Galaxy SII or HTC Sensation?
<oimon> both are nice
<NET||abuse> does anyone know if they've had any issues with mounting the Samsung filesystem?
<Dave2> in what way?
<tonytiger> Myrtti: maybe some people buy and resell them..? Dunno, sounds odd to me!
<NET||abuse> i've heard the first galaxy S  use  Robust FAT File System
<Myrtti> tonytiger: I suppose, it still doesn't make any sense to me. Weird as hell.
<Dave2> well, I've had no problems mounting my SII
<NET||abuse> cool, ok good to hear
<NET||abuse> oh, then i see this... http://androidforums.com/samsung-galaxy-s2-international/313715-samsung-galaxy-s-2s-filesystem-confirmed-ext4-d.html
<Dave2> The root's ext4, the USB mass storage is vfat
<Dave2> at least, this is what `mount` tells me
<dwatkins> Are you connecting to it with a USB cable, or have you placed the SD card in an adapter, Dave2?
<Dave2> I don't have an SD card.
<Dave2> this is the internal storage
<NET||abuse> Dave2: who'd you get the phone with? O2, vodafone? here in uK?
<Dave2> O2.
<NET||abuse> wondering what the internal storage is.
<NET||abuse> some specs say 16GB internal
<Dave2> I got it when it was free on a Â£27/month contract.
<Dave2> It's 16GB internal, 12GB available as USB mass storage IIRC.
<Dave2> It's also got a microSD slot.
<NET||abuse> yeh, i'm looking at vodafone free on 30/month
<NET||abuse> Dave2: application space?
<NET||abuse> i'm on an old Desire, and it sucks, i can barely install 10 apps before it overloads
<NET||abuse> I had to uninstall google+ and flash to get it working again 2 weeks ago
<NET||abuse> Dave2: so is that 12GB free for apps? or is only the 4GB (which is stil way more than the Desire :P)
<Dave2> You can move apps to the SD card, I think.
<Dave2> With the "SD card" in this case being the 12GB of internal space.
<NET||abuse> yeh, i did that as much as possible, but alot of them still won't uninstall their bulk from main memory
<NET||abuse> the HTC Sensation only seems to have the 1GB internal... i think that makes the decision for me.
<NET||abuse> samsung it is, bigger battery, super amoled screen,
<NET||abuse> they're winning it for me.
<NET||abuse> i like htc for the physical build though, i think the sensation looks prettier
<Azelphur> anyone recommend a cheap ubuntu compatible scanner?
<Azelphur> doesn't need to be super hd or last very long
<gord> HP
<NET||abuse> svn st
<NET||abuse> oops, sorry
<AlanBell> Azelphur: you might find a multi-functional device is cheaper than a scanner
<Azelphur> yea I was just thinking a printer/scanner might come in handy
<AlanBell> so you get a scanner with feeder, and a printer as well
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hewlett-Packard-DeskJet-F4180-All-In-One-InkJet-Scanner-Printer-/180747501508?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printers_Printers_JN&hash=item2a1563ffc4#ht_500wt_1156 maybe this? :)
<Azelphur> ubuntu wiki says it's known to work :D
<Azelphur> and google shopping puts the ink at about 5 quid, so think that might do the job
<AlanBell> Azelphur: sheet feeder is nice though
<Azelphur> sheet feeder?
<AlanBell> http://www.ebay.co.uk/ctg/Hewlett-Packard-4500-All-In-One-InkJet-Printer-/97476091?_dmpt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printers_Printers_JN&_pcategid=171962&_pcatid=561&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A5251&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
<AlanBell> put in a stack of paper and simple-scan pulls them all in and makes a PDF of the lot
<AlanBell> if you don't want to do that then fine, but now is the time to decide :)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: nah I don't particularly, I very rarely print or scan, probably a couple times in a year
<Azelphur> no point in spending an extra 40 quid speeding the process up
<AlanBell> yup
<Azelphur> just that for 15 quid there ain't much point in going to the shop and paying like Â£2 for it, when I could do it from the comfort of my home \o/
<Azelphur> righto then, I shall go for the F4180 I guess
<Azelphur> I believe I've checked most of the common pitfalls, ubuntu wiki says it's supported and the inks seem to be around Â£5
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Leadership @ UDS - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/01/leadership-uds/
<oimon> MooDoo: fyi i found something called revolution.io . my hboot was too new for unrevoked :-S
<KrisDouglas> Hello, has anyone else noticed if you start typing the name of a file in nautilus and delete some of the text, it moves back through the folders, using backspace as a nav button
<KrisDouglas> wow that is terribly written
<KrisDouglas> What I mean to say, is when you delete text from the "start typing search", it navigates back through the folders instead of deleting...
<MooDoo> thanks oimon
<ali12341> i haven't noticed it but it doesn't really surprise me
 * oimon has spent too long fannying around with his phone today
<theashman> Hi. How can I set a directory so that all files created under it inherit it's permissions?
<MooDoo> oimon: get some work done :)
<oimon> yes dad
<MooDoo> hehe
<BigRedS> theashman: use the setuid and setgid bits
<BigRedS> if you check docs for each, you'll get a better explanation than I can manage :)
<BigRedS> oh. those'll let it inherit its ownership, not permissions.
<BigRedS> for permissions you need to check umasks, but those are per-process rather than per-directory
<theashman> ahh
<oimon> anyone recommend a place to buy compatible ink
<czajkowski> http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2011/11/01/loco-council-oneiric-cycle-review/
 * czajkowski waves at gord 
<gord> czajkowski, i forgot what this session was about about 15 minutes ago =\
<czajkowski> gord: TEA BAGS
<czajkowski> mug of hot tea curled up with a jammy dodger and being back in UK is all you can think about
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
<gord> only one more day and i can go home :)
<czajkowski> hope you're snowed in
 * davmor2 shaves czajkowski head
<ball> Oooh!  I should stick the kettle on.
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 in the shins
<gord> found a picture of ducks though http://i.imgur.com/LPjQ5.jpg
<ball> That's ducking excellent!
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski stop fighting or go to #naughtystep
<Dave2> (##)
 * Dave2 hides a bit
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm not fighting I'm shaving czajkowski head
<MooDoo> davmor2: well stop picking on her and behave....
<davmor2> MooDoo: I didn't start it :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski well i'm ending behave :D
<oimon> MooDoo: did you flash your radio when upgrading to cm7.1?
<MooDoo> oimon: not that i'm aware of.  i did read somewhere i should of but i don't use radio
<MooDoo> so i didn't
<oimon> it's not for radio though
<bigcalm> MooDoo: if you use wifi or 3g, then you do
<oimon> controls main functions of the phone
<MooDoo> hmmmmmm
<MooDoo> as you can see i just plowed into it and didn't take any notice of what i should be doing :D)
<buzz_> sudo apt-get install sox; echo "main(t){for(t=0;;t++)putchar((t>>6|t|t>>(t>>16))*10+((t>>11)&7));}" >m1.c; make m1; ./m1 | play -c 1 -b 8 -u -r 8000 -t raw -
<bigcalm> Heh
<buzz_> from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtQdIYUtAHg (3 parts)
<oimon> apparently it's a requirement for 7.1
<MooDoo> oimon: i must of as 3g and wiress on my phone work ok
<oimon> bluetooth?
<MooDoo> not tried that
<oimon> hehe
<MooDoo> one sec
<oimon> don't ;)
<oimon> there's no all-encompassing wiki page for this stuff :(
<bigcalm> I found that I had to install the bt file transfer app to be able to connect to my car's bt. Without it, you don't have an option of what pin number is used when pairing
<bigcalm> It worked when I had stock on the phone. I guess CM changed the default pin used from 1234 to 0000
<oimon> ah, i might have that prob too
<bigcalm> Since getting it connected, it works perfectly :)
<oimon> bigcalm: what phone u have?
<oimon> i can't find a safe site to tell me which radio to update to
<bigcalm> oimon: Nexus One
 * daubers makes some coffee
<bigcalm> Where the flip are British Gas?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no come over here and make us :P
<daubers> bigcalm: Having a brew?
<DJones> bigcalm: Probably in manchester dealing with a burst water main that flooded the gas pipes, local radio has been talking about it for the last week, residents have been withough gas for about a week
<MooDoo> davmor2: i wish i bloody could young man, czajkowski punch him for me will you :D
<bigcalm> DJones: :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: :P you wouldn't like the rain honest :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'd get the wettest me being tall and all that :D
<mfraz74> Just done an update and I'm getting this http://paste.ubuntu.com/725456/
<MooDoo> tried apt-get -f install to install files that it's missing?
<mfraz74> MooDoo: I've tried that, looks like it could be this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/833841
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 833841 in mesa (Ubuntu) "libgl1-mesa-glx alternative link" [Undecided,Invalid]
<oimon> MooDoo: i decided that my radio version was new enough
<MooDoo> mfraz74: you going to try #5?
<mfraz74> MooDoo: that's what i'm doing now
<mfraz74> odd that i've never come across it before
 * bigcalm demands British Gas!
 * BigRedS produces some
 * bigcalm cracks a window
<NET||abuse> hmm, last mobile question i swear,, any reason to go with vodafone or O2 over the other?
<Azelphur> NET||abuse: depends what your after
<bigcalm> The both do nice television adverts
<NET||abuse> both are offering ~Â£35 / month with free galaxy sII, so that's all well and good
<bigcalm> I like the bees
<NET||abuse> netowrk wise i suppose, data speed
<NET||abuse> secondarily call quality.
<DJones> Which one has the best reception in your area
<bigcalm> T-Mobile and Orange will give you the greatest UK coverage
<NET||abuse> my cousin has moved to vodafone and swears he found it better the last year.
<NET||abuse> hmm,
<mfraz74> Orange coverage is patchy around here
<bigcalm> So you want the sII rather than waiting for the Nexus?
<NET||abuse> one other reason is that vodafone and O2 are back in ireland, and i can get the addons to ring people back home too.
<NET||abuse> bigcalm: how long for nexus?
<bigcalm> Some time this month apparently.
<NET||abuse> bigcalm: i've just gotten to london and am in need of phone for work and various othe rthings
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: I can't pin down a date other than this month
<shauno> I wouldn't trust o2-uk and o2-ie to pretend they're the same company.  it's going to be international minutes either way
<NET||abuse> nah, they aren't the same company sure, but they have a deal that my cousin uses and is free calls to named phones
<NET||abuse> but they have to be coda-ie
<NET||abuse> uh,, voda-ie
<NET||abuse> i'm not sure if O2 has a similar deal, but at least there's more chance
<NET||abuse> hmm, that's annoying,, what's better on this nexus than galaxy sII?
<bigcalm> I hear mutterings of the 16th in the UK
<DJones> Most review/comparison's I've read suggest that the SII was slightly better than the nexus prime
<DJones> But not much in it
<DJones> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42623/galaxy-nexus-vs-samsung-galaxy-s-2
<bigcalm> But when will the SII get ICS?
<DJones> Jan 12 apparanetly
<NET||abuse> bigcalm: what's ICS?
<MooDoo> NET||abuse: ice cream sandwich
<NET||abuse> 3.0?
<MooDoo> code name for the latest version of android
<NET||abuse> or 2.4?
<NET||abuse> it's got 2.3 preloaded yeh?
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: 4.0
<NET||abuse> ah,
<NET||abuse> right, i'm behind the times.
<MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history
<bigcalm> 3.0 is honeycomb, used by some tablets
<MartijnVdS> My tables has 3.2 now I think
<MartijnVdS> tablet*
<bigcalm> Mine has 2.3 and not very well implemented either
<MartijnVdS> 2.3? that's the phone version right?
<bigcalm> Yes
<MartijnVdS> scary
 * MartijnVdS ordered a Galaxy Nexus though \o/
<sevist> ÃÃ°Ã¨Ã¢Ã¥Ã² Ã­Ã Ã°Ã®Ã¤
<sevist> Ã­Ã³Ã¦Ã­Ã  Ã¯Ã®Ã¬Ã®Ã¹Ã¼
<sevist> Ã¯Ã®Ã¤Ã±ÃªÃ Ã¦Ã¨Ã²Ã¥ ÃªÃ Ãª Ã¤Ã®Ã¡Ã Ã¢Ã¨Ã²Ã¼ Ã­Ã Ã¡Ã®Ã° Ã¯Ã®Ã«Ã¨Ã²Ã¨Ãª, Ã°Ã Ã§Ã°Ã¥Ã¸Ã Ã¾Ã¹Ã¨Ãµ Power Management
<mfraz74> I'm happy with my HTC sensation :)
<daubers> !by
<DJones> !ru
<lubotu3`> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<daubers> DJones: Beat me to it
<DJones> (Belarus ip, I'm assuming russian language)
<DJones> sevist: The uk in ubuntu-uk is for United Kingdom
<MartijnVdS> !uk
<lubotu3`> Join us for a discussion using the Queen's English in #ubuntu-uk
<k3nz0> Nigga stole my bike.
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Why do trolls troll?
<smittix> random
<AlanBell> looking for attention maybe
<smittix> or the person that stole his bike
<bigcalm> Tsk
<AlanBell> anyhow, anyone been following the UDS sessions?
<smittix> I wish i could implant programming knowledge into my brain.
<smittix> I watched the first live session
<BigRedS> what's the name of that pub-on-a-train phenomenon?
<AlanBell> rat
<AlanBell> ooooh they have opened up 2012 dates
<AlanBell> http://www.watercressonline.co.uk/section.php?xSec=191
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: popey ^^
<TheOpenSourcerer> :D
<ali1234> AlanBell: how do i access UDS sessions?
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/2011-11-01/ this is the schedule for today
<AlanBell> if you click the little pen+pad image on a session slot it will take you to a page like this http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19587/community-roundtable-tuesday/
<BigRedS> AlanBell: Ta!
<AlanBell> which is a shared notepad when you log in to it (launchpad password)
<AlanBell> and below the pad is a link to the live audio for the room, whcih you can play with vlc
<AlanBell> to talk back to people in the room, each room has an IRC channel which is projected to the room
<AlanBell> so for that example the IRC channel is #ubuntu-uds-bonaire3
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19239/plenary-rackspace/ is starting now
 * bigcalm remembers how the on stage twitter fall was abused at the last lrl :D
<AlanBell> vlc http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grandsierra-d.ogg.m3u will play the audio stream
<smittix> ooh a quickly session.
<smittix> Some of the user ideas are interesting
<ali1234> do i have to sign in to every single meeting individually or does it remember?
<smittix> especially push ssh and pgp.
<AlanBell> starting here you can view the schedule by track or by day http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/
<AlanBell> ali1234: should be a one off thing (unless you have a paranoid security setup in your browser)
<ali1234> blah it doesn't work
<ali1234> i have to join ubuntu-etherpad group
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> I will approve you
<AlanBell> most people will be members of a loco team and pre-approved
<ali1234> i haven't even signed the CoC
<AlanBell> you don't need to
<bigcalm> I haven't even read the CoC
<ali1234> ok i applied to join
 * AlanBell already added you
<smittix> CoC?
<AlanBell> !coc
<lubotu3`> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct
<smittix> ahh duh
<smittix> Signed it today :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: apparently there are already a few things booked in December. Any way we can kick start this thing so we might secure some dates? :)
<smittix> for use with quickly
<AlanBell> smittix: ah yes, you need it for a ppa
<AlanBell> bigcalm: the RAT you mean?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: na, the meal
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, working on that
<bigcalm> Ok, great :)
<bigcalm> Hayley has told me to go on my own if she is already booked for the same date. Let loose in London on my own? Oh my
<AlanBell> ali1234: pad working now?
<smittix> AlanBell: I'm having trouble using quickly uploading my project.
<bigcalm> Is it well known that track changes in a word document do not show correctly in Libre Office?
<AlanBell> smittix: with the quickly share bit?
<smittix> AlanBell: Yeah, I don't know how to set what ppa to upload to? Can't find any information on it.
<smittix> Looks like it auto chooses /ppa but I kind of messed up by creating a ppa called "ppa" then deleted it thinking I could recreate it
<smittix> Which you can't, and you can't reinstate a deleted ppa :(
<AlanBell> oops
<AlanBell> I haven't used quickly for ages, that bit worked for me when I did it though
<AlanBell> um, the people who can help get that fixed are going to be at UDS at the moment
<smittix> Yeah thought so. I will try and figure it out. It will give me something to do.
<AlanBell> I would suggest taking some names at the quickly sessions then bugging those people next week
<popey> aquarius: seen jono?
<smittix> All this app does at the minute is easily unhides hidden startup programs from gnome-session-properties.
<AlanBell> Rick Spencer and didrocks are the main people I think
<aquarius> popey, not since well before lunch
<Myrtti> you people and your UDS
<Myrtti> you depress me :-(
 * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
 * AlanBell presses Myrtti
<bigcalm> Heh
<Myrtti> OY
 * AlanBell undepresses Myrtti. Better?
<smittix> Yay got it on the project page anyway https://launchpad.net/autostart-changer
<smittix> and messed the version number up in the process.
<AlanBell> yay
<smittix> Don't know if anyone else will find it usefull. It's one of the first things I head to on a new install.
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, proddy, prod, prod, prod
<ali1234> AlanBell: thanks
<Oli> Wow. BBC Tech just got the news that floods in Thailand have affected manufacturing. Shameful how behind the curve they are sometimes. You'd expect somebody there to subscribe to Slashdot (who were themselves a day behind the rest)
<AlanBell> ali1234: and anyone else not joined the launchpad team feel free to add yourself here https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-uk
<AlanBell> not that it does a great deal
<bigcalm> That's a lot of names
<MartijnVdS> Can I turn off the "half-maximize" if I move the window to the right/left edge of the screen
<MartijnVdS> I tend to do what with Chrome and it's almost impossible to restore the window to its previous size
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: look in the setings of the grid plugin in ccsm
<AlanBell> edges tab
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: running ccsm crashes Unity/compiz for me
<AlanBell> yeah, it is delicate
<AlanBell> ooh, you can set it to 1/4 maximise stuff
<AlanBell> in the corners
<MartijnVdS> ooh you can tell it to do it only on bottom corners
<MartijnVdS> win
<MartijnVdS> ooh it worked without crashing
<smittix> Yeah when I change the launcher size it does nothing the first time. I have to logout and in again then change it again and it finally does it.
<czajkowski> ohh thats laney
<Laney> allegedly
<MartijnVdS> Some say... ;)
<Laney> so tempted to cowsay in the room's irc channel
<czajkowski> face <~> name
<Laney> :-)
<MartijnVdS> Laney: Upstream banshee fixed "our" bug (dbus/gconf restarts)!
<Laney> yeah i was following it
<Laney> was a gconf bug
<daubers> Hello
<MattJ> Howdy daubers
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who & Minecraft people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTWaa2FCq-M
<cheekychappy> hello
<MartijnVdS> \o
<cheekychappy> is this working ?
<tonytiger> yup
<cheekychappy> cool never done this before
<tonytiger> welcome :)
<mattt> cheekychappy: keep your hands on the wheel
<cheekychappy> how do i find out who i can chat to?
<cheekychappy> private message and all that jazz
<tonytiger> Who do you want to chat to?
<cheekychappy> a bird with a brain
<tonytiger> Someone in particular?
<tonytiger> This isn't really a dating channel
<cheekychappy> ive just turned single after 15 years and would like a nice lady to chat
<cheekychappy> i know that
<cheekychappy> its just a conversation
<tonytiger> This is a channel to talk about Ubuntu software
<mattt> lolz
<cheekychappy> lol is it
<bigcalm> Seems an odd channel to choose
<cheekychappy> ooopps
<cheekychappy> just looking for a chat with a few females my mistake
<mattt> :/
<mattt> would imagine freenode as a whole would be a bad destination for that
<tonytiger> :)
<tonytiger> Yeah
<bigcalm> Nothing wrong with that, not sure freenode is where you'll find what you seek
<bigcalm> tonytiger: has Laura stopped blinking?
<bigcalm> Wouldn't want her to disappear
<cheekychappy> ok happy chatting ta
<bigcalm> chalcedony: good luck with your search
<cheekychappy> lol cheers
<bigcalm> How odd
<dutchie> i suspect this is the "xchat joins #ubuntu-uk by default" thing again
<bigcalm> Oh
<Xbert> Apparmor is not showing Firefox as enforced when it running, Firefox is set to be enforced, can anyone help me?
<mattt> dutchie: haha!
<daubers> Why is it glue fumes smell like pink elephants?
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> How long have you been sniffing them for?
<Myrtti> pink?
<daubers> been sticking stuff together for about an hour
<bigcalm> Myrtti: do you have pink on highlight? :)
<Myrtti> bigcalm: yes.
<bigcalm> Hehe, cool
<Myrtti> oh dear god, take away this pain of new Gmail themes
<Myrtti> I know I could revert to old gmail, but that would only postpone the pain
<Xbert> Apparmor is not showing Firefox as enforced when it running, Firefox is set to be enforced, can anyone help me?
<ali1234> Myrtti: there's a version of the new theme with less whitespace
<Myrtti> ali1234: I hate the colours
<ali1234> but they have pink
<Myrtti> I hate the pink one
<ali1234> i got used to the new colours after about 2 days
<Myrtti> Dusk is closest to what I like
<Myrtti> the pink needs to be more gray for me to like it
<ali1234> they've put the ads back at the top of the page, good
<andylockran> :)
<ali1234> on the preview they were stuck to the bottom of the window and moved when you scrolled
<ali1234> it was really annoying
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-02
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<AlanBell> morning
<tonytiger> hi
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> The future for datacentres and home servers? http://www.calxeda.com/
<diplo> Anyone recommend any open source Assett management software and also helpdesk software, preferably something that integrates together
<diplo> I like OSTicket, but no asset stuff built in
<diplo> Looks good stuff TheOpenSourcerer
<diplo> I'd certainly want to use something that low power at home :)
<AlanBell> ooh, ARM servers :)
<AlanBell> and funnily enough canonical on the software partner page :)
<smittix> Morning all
<selinuxium> Morning all!  :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<MooDoo> :)
<oimon> had to roll back to CM7.0.3 from 7.1.0 :(
<MooDoo> oooooooooooooo
<bigcalm> That sucks, why so?
<oimon> had low space issues that i couldn't resolve, and some stuff wasn't working e.g. google chat
<oimon> for no perceivable gain
<oimon> need to make the decision quickly if you are gonna roll back to a previous backup
<oimon> if i had have persevered, i probably could have moved the dalvik cache somewhere else
<ali1234> the NAS unit i just set up to replace the broken one is ARM
<ali1234> the old one was PPC
<ali1234> so ARM servers are already in the home
 * MooDoo is getting a new nas
<ali1234> what's so good about ARM servers in the datacentre anyway?
<ali1234> the only reason i can think to use them is because your servers are not CPU bound, and so running x86 is a waste of electricity
<mattt> power consumption perhaps?  :)
<ali1234> if you are akamai it probably makes sense
<AlanBell> ali1234: core density as well, if you want that
<mattt> ali1234: what kind of nas did you get?
<ali1234> iomega ix2-200
<mattt> weird, looks like some sort of APC unit
<ali1234> the firmware is terrible
<mattt> ack, meeting, brb
<AlanBell> ali1234: so it runs debian?
<ali1234> it runs a broken version of debian
<oimon> ali1234: power consumption and heat production and less expensive air con
<oimon> virtualisation offers similar benefits too of course
<ali1234> that's what i mean. ARM seems good if you have low CPU/high IO requirements
<oimon> lots of servers in the datacentre are idling
<oimon> in my experience
<JamesTait> Gooooood mooooorning all! :D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<Pernig> morning
<JamesTait> How are we all this morning?
<MooDoo> ready for the weekend but not bad, what about yourself
<oimon> when making a OO impress doc and wanting to draw some block diagrams, is it best/easier to draw them in OOimpress, or another app and import them?
<JamesTait> All fired up ready to kick some refactoring butt. :)
<AlanBell> oimon: depends on complexity, but you can do a lot with impress, also the draw application in the suite
<JamesTait> And sounding a little like a cross between beuno and jonobacon. :-P
<AlanBell> which is basically the same, but without the slideshow bit (might have better layer support too)
<oimon> AlanBell: cool, i was wondering if they were the same
<oimon> gonna try impress
<andylockran> Nov  2 09:52:51 enzo kernel: [ 2066.641830] at-spi-registry[5574]: segfault at 18 ip 00007f9f3e9da5f1 sp 00007fffa9565260 error 4 in libgconf-2.so.4.1.5[7f9f3e9c3000+2d000]
<andylockran> I get logged out as soon as I attempt to login
<andylockran> seeing that message above in the kern.log with oneric
<andylockran> any ideas?
<hoover> god morning
<MooDoo> it's good as well :D
<iclebyte> mornin
<bigcalm> I missed all of you so much!
<andylockran> morning
<DJones> That was somewhat of a netsplit
 * DJones blames popey for being in the US and probably asleep at this time & not adminstering the whole of the internet properly
<bigcalm> DJones: sounds reasonable
<bigcalm> Think I just killed the bookmark manager in Chromium \o/
<danfish> DJones: sshhh! He has a daemon process in his brain that works even when he's asleep monitoring this channel ;)
<LjL> can someone please check why my uncloaked host appears to be banned from here? it's 93-32-53-73.ip32.fastwebnet.it
<andylockran> I do like netsplits
<bigcalm> LjL: that might be a request for #freenode
<DJones> LjL: Give me a minute
<LjL> bigcalm: erm, not really
<DJones> I can only guess that it was from a time when you had connection problems & were bouncing in & out of the channel
<LjL> freenode doesn't deal with channel bans
<bigcalm> Oh, from this channel, sorry :)
<LjL> DJones: i was thinking it might be that, thanks
<DJones> Just got to remember the command to remove it now :)
<LjL> DJones: you can't remove it now, because we've got no chanserv to op you :P
<DJones> Bugger
<LjL> well it doesn't matter very much, i'm usually cloaked
<DJones> I'll remove it when I can anyway
<LjL> thanks
<DJones> Even freenode.net is down
<bigcalm> -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, one of our sponsors are experiencing some routing issues -- as a result we are missing a few servers, have a messed up rotation, no services and no web presence. Hopefully we'll return to some normality soon. Thank you for your patience and have a good day (or night, if you're Australian!)
<DJones> Ah
<bigcalm> ChanServ is back
<DJones> LjL: Do you want to check thats working now
<DJones> Back in a bit, just got head to a meeting for a minutes
<oimon> i think that means djones has gone for a poo
 * DJones kicks oimon 
<oimon> irc'ing on the toilet?
<DJones> Nah, ended up a 30 second web demo meeting
<DJones> Is packages.ubuntu.com down? Can't decide if its just my web connection causing problems or the site itself
<oimon> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/packages.ubuntu.com
<DJones> I suspect it must be my web connection because downforeveryoneorjustme.com seems down :)
<oimon> woops
<DJones> \o/ somebody has put a new hamster in the hamster wheel powering the internet
<bigcalm> Where you getting an +++OUT OF CHEESE ERROR+++ ?
 * bigcalm forgets the exact quote :S
<kirrus> We've seen some strange transient routing issues over the last few days
 * awilkins is wondering if he should try Unity2d for a while
<DJones> bigcalm:
<DJones> Yep, that was the warning
<bigcalm> DJones: yes?
<awilkins> If I didn't know this machine was perfectly stable in Windows, I'd suspect the hardware was flaking out
<bigcalm> Ah
<DJones> Why when you change to a new server, do you always forget the little things you've installed "just at the time", why do I never write them all down
<awilkins> DJones, Yeah, I know
<awilkins> DJones, It would be nice to have a tool that logs all that stuff and presents a structured list of what you did, so you could separate out the bits that you want everywhere and apply it to all new machines
<DJones> yeah, would be good
<bigcalm> A project for the 2 of you ;)
<DJones> Wouldn't mind, its only a little piddly home server, serves a tiny static website, runs irssi, & keeps a stack of media files for distributing round the house
<awilkins> How about... a terminal with an inbuilt wiki pane to the right... select the command text, type a documentation string, it logs that
<awilkins> Would help eliminate all the piddly little commands you run like cd, ls
<awilkins> Or annotate your bash history
<bigcalm> That wouldn't log what you did in config files though
<awilkins> bigcalm, No... so how do we link etckeeper or similar into this
<awilkins> Link to the commit IDs in your log?
<bigcalm> Erm, could do :)
<bigcalm> I didn't know about etckeeper
<bigcalm> !etckeeper
<AlanBell> !info etckeeper
<lubotu3`> etckeeper (source: etckeeper): store /etc in git, mercurial, bzr or darcs. In component main, is optional. Version 0.52ubuntu1 (natty), package size 26 kB, installed size 384 kB
<bigcalm> AlanBell to the rescue!
<bigcalm> Most interesting
<awilkins> So, if etckeeper hooks apt, presumably you could also get it to log installed packages
<awilkins> (or maybe it does alreadY)
<kirrus> package changes are logged into /var/log/dpkg.log.. not sure how helpful that is for you though
<Oli> popey: What's your job? Just saw your tweets.
<directhex> pkgsync.
<MooDoo> isn't it engineering manager?
<bigcalm> Chief cake taster
<Oli> :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 2 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/02/uds-p-day-2/
<daubers> Afternoon
<MooDoo> hiya daubers
<AlanBell> anyone dipping into interesting sessions from UDS today? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/today
<daubers> AlanBell: WOuld do if I had some more time. Intending to try and read some of the summaries over the weekend
<MooDoo> hola davmor2 how's UDS?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I don't know it's the other side of the building ;)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I'm surprised that czajkowski hasn't sent him to the ER
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're not partaking?  Or ust got up?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: give her chance :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: No czajkowski won't kill me apparently as I'm organising the workspace thing :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: no I'm on a team sprint
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah!
 * mattt is finally getting around to listening to the keynote
<bigcalm> davmor2: good, my words didn't go unheeded
<mattt> huge openstack focus, wow
<awilkins> Hummph, I've switched to Unity2d
<awilkins> I shall see if this improves stability - my machine keeps having nasty crashes that coincidentally coincide with pretty graphics moments like window fades, etc
<andylockran> :D
<andylockran> I'm a happy bunny
<MooDoo> andylockran: any particular reason?
<andylockran> MooDoo: just enjoying xubuntu+dock
<selinuxium> andylockran, Been given a carrot?
<andylockran> selinuxium: I'd quite like a carrot
<bigcalm> andylockran: which dock?
<andylockran> docky
<bigcalm> What's the difference from having a panel down there?
<andylockran> it also holds minimized apps
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I didn't install it as I thought it would need gnome to work correctly
<andylockran> nope - it works really well - though need to enable compositing
<bigcalm> :|
<andylockran> what's that face for?
 * selinuxium posts andylockran a carrot...   CoIP hasn't been invented yet...
<bigcalm> This system isn't the greatest under Linux for fancy graphics. Which is a shame
<andylockran> CoIP
<awilkins> Carrot over Internet Protocol
<awilkins> Will have to make do with cookies. It does seem a short leap from there to cake, and thus carrot cake... but never mind
<bigcalm> Great how the mind works ;)
<bigcalm> andylockran: do you find it difficult to grab the edge of a window for resizing?
<bigcalm> It feels like a pixel hunt to me
<awilkins> Yeah, it's a single pixel area... the alt-F8 key shortcut is a nice idea but it rather removes your hand from the mouse, which is daft when you want to resize a window
<bigcalm> Most interesting, ta
<bigcalm> Really not optimal though
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Take a look at bug 160311 :-)
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
<awilkins> No, my hand reach is not enough to hit alt-f8 with my left hand, so It's a 2-hand key combo
<awilkins> So I have to leave the mouse to do it
<TheOpenSourcerer> An old and bloody annoying bug.
<bigcalm> awilkins: use the right hand alt?
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: poo :(
<awilkins> bigcalm, AltGr doesn't work
<bigcalm> So I see
<bigcalm> Why do I struggle to decide what to have for lunch?
<bigcalm> It really shouldn't be this stressful
<daubers> bigcalm: I've been told to find myself a new work computer
<daubers> thats more stressful
<bigcalm> But you can't eat a computer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ham Sandwich with some of my amazing Chilli Chutney :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> 50 Chillies and 25 cloves of Garlic
<bigcalm> How long did it take you to learn to like having your mouth on fire?
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: So you're trying to get some time to yourself then....
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: About 28 years I guess.
<TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> It also goes very well with cheese too.
<bigcalm> Next you'll tell us that you like chilli chocolate
<TheOpenSourcerer> I say "my" Chilli Chutney. I did make it but it was this recipe: http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2011/10/27/how-to-make-my-favourite-green-chilli-chutney/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great website BTW
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I do, and so does my 7 yr old son.
<bigcalm> My future mother-in-law likes it as well. But I think mothers-in-law are meant to be odd ;)
<dogmatic69> anyone used ganglia?
<dogmatic69> looks pretty good
<popey> $morning all
<bigcalm> Afternoon part-timer
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey popey! Guess what I got yesterday ;-)
<bigcalm> popey: Does every morning start with a hangover, or is that just Aq?
<popey> haha
<popey> i have no hangover
<popey> which is surprising
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: hp touchpad?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 32G
<popey> ooo nice
<popey> just one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Unfortunately yes.
<popey> â¹
<AlanBell> got ubuntu on it yet?
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't even unboxed it yet.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: Put CM on it
 * popey is in an interesting session about linaro set top boxes
<bigcalm> Central heating just came on. Woot \o/
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> What can we expect the next gen. of set top boxes then?
<bigcalm> Will TiVo be a thing of the past?
<mattt> does anyone here use juju?
<oimon> i wonder how many cheapo STB's over the next year or so will turn out to be a raspberry pi hidden in a bigger case
<AlanBell> oimon: not the ones that are linaro based
<denny> how can I set the window auto-raise delay for focus-follows-mouse in 11.10 gnome fallback? (or whatever the non-unity, non-gnome-shell UI is called)
<popey> davmor2: what was that macro recorder thing you mentioned?
<davmor2> popey: xpresser ?
<popey> ta
<Myrtti> I think more tea is needed
<selinuxium> Is there any way of opening applications on particular workspaces? I open the same applications and put them in the same workspaces every morning... would be nice to automate...
<selinuxium> To add to the dilemma I have a dual screen set-up
<TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: Me too :-) If you find out how to do that I'd love to know.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thunderbird on screen 1, FFox and Hotot on 2, OpenERP Client on 3 and 4 mostly eclipse and/or other stuff.
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, :) Will do... How are you doing anyway? You near Liverpool Street any time soon?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good thanks selinuxium but not got any "in town" meeting booked for the forseeable right now.
<daubers> urgh, I dislike it when customers say "We know you told us not to do this but....."
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha
<daubers> The answer is generally "Sorry, you're on your own, or you can pay for a callout at Â£1000+VAT per day (min 1 day) to fix it"
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Next time you are in town give me a bell for beer! :) Also... http://www.foosel.org/linux/devilspie  is looking promising...
<denny> selinuxium: if you're running Compiz you can teach it rules for specific windows...  based on their titles I think
<denny> window placement is a long-running pile of &"$Â£* in Linux/X
<denny> if you file a bug about it, everyone goes "It's not our fault, it's their fault!" and points at someone else
<denny> it's very tedious
<denny> currently it's actually down to application developers to save and request restoration of window position, which seems a bit silly.
<selinuxium> hi denny, yeah I am using Compiz but i need to open Chromium-browser in 2 workspaces, one in incognito so I can have 2 google accounts open...
<denny> funtiems  :)
<selinuxium> denny, TheOpenSourcerer, there appears to be a GUI - gDevilspie
<denny> I used devils pie before, but the built-in stuff in compiz seemed to be equivalent or better when I was last looking
<denny> I don't even know what WM I'm using any more
<denny> 11.10 has done odd things to my machine  :)
<denny> well, trying to run 11.10 but without Unity has done odd things
<denny> Gnome Shell won't even load on my three-screen setup
<denny> although it looked pretty rubbish before it crashed anyway
<denny> so I'm running the fallback thing
<denny> which is a bit rubbish, but at least I can get work done without the UI getting in my way all the time
<nymwar> Gnome shell seems to be running well on my system on 11.10
<denny> do you have three monitors running off of two graphics cards?
<nymwar> no
<denny> I find this causes me a number of issues  :)
<denny> in 11.10's defence, this is the first installation of Linux ever to find all three monitors and enable them using only GUI tools
<denny> shame about Unity really
<denny> and as I say, Gnome Shell didn't like the three monitors, which is interesting given that fallback manages okay and that's still gnome3 if I understand correctly?
<AlanBell> unity is a shell for gnome3
<denny> oh aye?
<AlanBell> gnome-shell is another shell for gnome 3
<denny> right
<denny> I didn't much like the look of either, but Unity did at least run  :)
<AlanBell> and fallback uses the two panel shell for gnome 3
<denny> it just took ages to switch between windows and stuff like that
<denny> (in terms of my identifying the window I wanted and selecting it, rather than in terms of rendering speed etc)
<AlanBell> alt-tab is not very deterministic under unity, I turned that off and use one of the normal switchers
<denny> the 'I must be on the left of the screen' thing was a bit of a nuisance on a triple-head setup too...  the left of the left screen is a long way away  :)
<denny> I tried Cairo Dock but that was quite faffy too
<denny> I'm fairly sure having a task bar is actually quicker for switching between windows, rather than just being what I'm used to
<denny> always hard to assess your own biases though
<denny> the fact that I like focus-follows-mouse doesn't really work well with the detached menu bar thingy either
<denny> i r special snowflake edge case, I guess
<AlanBell> focus-follows-mouse has been mentioned in some of the design sessions at UDS
<denny> if you're coming from Windows 7, Unity is probably quite nice
<denny> it looks quite similar, to my uneducated eye
<MooDoo> if you're coming from windows 7 it's aweful, then again if you're linux then windows then linux, it all becomes a blur lol
<denny> heh
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19802/design-p-design-and-community/ would be a good session to bring up comments about unity and what you want it to be in 12.04
<AlanBell> at 4PM today
<AlanBell> live audio here -> http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/bonaire2.ogg.m3u
<AlanBell> talk to the room in the #ubuntu-uds-bonaire2 IRC channel
<AlanBell> the IRC channel is on a big projector at the front of the room, all rooms have dual projectors, one for IRC, one with a dangling VGA connector for laptops
<AlanBell> so do go in there and politely say you would like multi-monitor improvements and alt-tab to be unbroken
<oly> hi, anyone in here able to tell me why firefox is not associated to application when i download files
<oly> for example when i download a word document it trys to use archive manager instead of open office and open office is not available in the list
<daubers> oly: It's a known bug. I think a fix has been released......
<daubers> bug 873470
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 873470 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu Oneiric) "File-roller is associated with .docx,.xlsx,.pptx files instead of LibreOffice" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873470
<daubers> it might be filtering through the system
<bigcalm> Everything is associated with the Archive Manager upon installing 11.10
<bigcalm> A bit silly really :)
<oly> aha cheers for that info daubers
<jacobw> pentadactyl > vimperator? discuss.
 * denny blinks
<denny> Evolution won't let me create any IMAP folders today
<denny> that's helpful
<bigcalm> Evolution has never been helpful. Why does it still exist?
<denny> I find it more usable than Thunderbird, on average
<denny> they all have their quirks though
<jacobw> denny: have you tried thunderbird with muttator?
<denny> nope?
<jacobw> http://vimperator.org/muttator
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> vim is going the way of emacs
<funkyHat> http://dactyl.sourceforge.net/teledactyl
<jacobw> (no (its (not)))
<bigcalm> funkyHat: same thing with a different name?
<funkyHat> bigcalm: that's just an extension for thunderbird that gives it vi-like keybindings, not actually part of vim
<funkyHat> bigcalm: more up to date fork I believe
<bigcalm> I know, but everything is starting to look like vim ;)
<czajkowski> aloha
<bigcalm> Ah yes, just read that
<bigcalm> Hi czajkowski :)
<denny> why anyone would want anything to behave like vim I have no idea
<denny> or like any CLI application for that matter, they're almost all completely insane
<denny> vi has always struck me as particularly special though... a text editor that, when you load it, won't let you edit the text (until you change mode)
<funkyHat> denny: vim has a bit of a steep learning curve but then the amount of keypresses required to do stuff just gets less and less
<denny> primary purpose fail :)
<funkyHat> Except experienced vim users probably spend less time in insert mode than other modes
<funkyHat> Starting in insert modewould annoy me, at any rate ;)
<bigcalm> There are 2 things that need to be made obvious when using an editor: 1) how to edit. 2) how to exit
<funkyHat> That depends on whether you're trying to make a tet editor that's easy to use or a text editor that's fast to use
<funkyHat> s/tet/text/
<ali1234> vim isn't fast to use
<bigcalm> It's quite often set as the default editor on systems. I had no idea what I was doing when I 1st tried to edit a cronjob
<ali1234> most of the claimed "fast" things you can do with it rely on you having memorized the entire text you are editing
<funkyHat> ali1234: I disagree
<denny> yeah, pico would be a friendlier default
<denny> with the menu across the bottom  :)
<funkyHat> But I'm also not going to suggest that it should be the default editor â¢)
<funkyHat> Or nano. I think nano is the default in ubuntu
<jacobw> nano provided by debian and ubuntu for intuitive editting
<TheOpenSourcerer> nano is pretty cool as long as you open it with -c
<bigcalm> I open with -w
<bigcalm> Otherwise it kills configs
<bigcalm> As with everything, you need to know what you're doing before you start
 * funkyHat sshes into a box that has nano on it to check what those options do
<funkyHat> What? It actually edits lines just bcause they are too long without -w?
<denny> :-o
<denny> helpful.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have not experienced that issue before. I like -c cause it shows your cursor position a.k.a line number
<NET||abuse> hey guys. i'm on a new work machine, ubuntu 11.10, tomboy fails to finish initial sync
<NET||abuse> i get about 38 of my 200 notes downloaded, then it stops
<NET||abuse> just says failed to sync, see below for details, that gives me the 38 notes with "Added" indicated beside each one, but that's it.
<NET||abuse> no errors apparent in that list
<jacobw> NET||abuse: which synchronisation method are you using?
<jacobw> i've seen the same episode of scrubs twice today on sky
<jacobw> perhaps its a good thing i've never had sky before
<sadsun> I watch everything online nowadays
<aaronr> upgrading a machine to 11.10 and see a message saying "the support in ubuntu 11.10 for your intel graphics hardware is limited and you may encounter problems after the upgrade" â will this computer still work in the Ubuntu 2D mode, or does it need a better graphics card before i upgrade? (are there any docs on what doesn't work?)
<jacobw> aaronr: http://friendly.ubuntu.com/
<NET||abuse> jacobw: oops, an hour later.....
<aaronr> jacobw: thanks, but i'm interested in what specifically won't work. if it will work in unity 2d mode, then i don't need to upgrade the graphics card. if not, i will.
<NET||abuse> jacobw: yeh, using Tomboy Web sync, through Ubuntu One
<jacobw> aaronr: can you try it with the live image?
<jacobw> NET||abuse: how many notes can you see in the web interfac?
<aaronr> jacobw: yeah, i can give it a shot.
<aaronr> i'd still like to understand what's changed in 11.10 and find out more about what will break, though. i'm having trouble finding relevant docs explaining this message.
<jacobw> do you know which driver your using?
<gord> http://i.imgur.com/CGB8v.png is genius.
<aaronr> jacobw: according to Xorg.log it's the intel driver for an intel 865g gpu
<AlanBell> gord: that got through the app review process!
<jacobw> aaronr: i don't think there's any regressions, looking at launchpad bugs and answers doesn't uncover any new issues in oneiric
<bigcalm> gord: haha
<diplo> Evening all
<diplo> Gnome3 is much smoother than unity so far
<BigRedS> Gnome3 has more boring bugs than unity, though
<diplo> Not for me yet, not crashed once yet
<diplo> Yet unity has crashed multiple times
<aaronr> thanks jacobw
<BigRedS> nah, not crashes, just stupid design decisions
<BigRedS> I've not had either crash much at all
<diplo> Oh unity has been once or twice a night
<diplo> Don't like the no option of minimise though
<BigRedS> yeah, that's the sort of design decisions that need fixing
<BigRedS> that's the thing, gnome3 is broken out of the box in a usability sense, so you isntall these extensions and it works
<BigRedS> unity just does random things every so often to keep me on my toes
<gr33npeace> whois tomk tomk
<sadsun> busted
<mattt> haha
<mattt> boosted
<bigcalm> Mmm, could nobble a Boost
<jacobw> i'm considering a system76 lemur ultra, can anyone testify as to their quality?
<stevepdp> evening friends
<daubers> Evening
<mattt> howzit guys
<feisar> I've just done a clean install of 11.10 with an nvidia card, activated the nvidia drivers but I have no shadows on the desktop - why would that be?
<jacobw> feisar: have you restarted the X server since activating the drivers? you can log out and back in again to do so
<feisar> jacobw: yeah I have restarted and still no go, thanks
<jajajajaj> 895
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Precise Ubuntu Developer Summit - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4496
<ali1234> i just watched the a-team reboot movie
<ali1234> it's terrible
<ali1234> don't watch it
<DJones> A wish you'd said that about 6 months ago
<hamitron> is it so bad I got to watch it, to believe how bad it is? ;)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's just stupid
<ali1234> i haven't really watched any films in ages
<Myrtti> apparently the frozen planet on bbc is really exciting
<hamitron> Myrtti, after Planet Dinosaur, I haven't bothered with that one
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> hamitron http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uIQZkXPkU
<hamitron> ouuu
<hamitron> I got a server to bypass youtube filtering now, so i can download it
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> what is youtube filtering
<hamitron> I blocked youtube
<ali1234> you blocked youtube and then you got a server to get around your own block
<hamitron> so others here can't slow down my internet
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> I can't remember the command for downloading youtube
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> wget
<hamitron> wget does it?
<MartijnVdS> if you know the URL, sure
<ali1234> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb53su_nathan-smithe-s-tv-impossible-plane_fun
<ali1234> same video
<hamitron> but....
<hamitron> still need to work this out
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> ali1234, that is blocked too
<hamitron> I'm just been dumb with youtube-dl
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> can't work it out
<hamitron> why is this not working?
<hamitron> youtube-dl -b http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uIQZkXPkU
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> because you've blocked youtube?
<hamitron> it isn't blocked on the server I'm running that
<hamitron> get_iplayer works
<hamitron> :)
<DJones> hamitron: Just ran that same command, I get an error "no such option: -b"
<hamitron> b for best
<DJones> -b isn't listed in the options for man youtube-dl
<hamitron> well, can you get it working at all?
<hamitron> -b, --best-quality  download the best quality video possible
<jacobw> version?
<DJones> Just take the -b, seems to be working for me
<DJones> "youtube-dl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uIQZkXPkU"
<hamitron> version is 2010.04.04
<DJones> hamitron: http://pastebin.com/pi0s7Ybg
<hamitron> DJones, what is youtube-dl -v
<hamitron> ?
 * hamitron on lucid
<DJones> hamitron: No idea, I've never used it until you mentioned you had problems
<DJones> -v is version
<hamitron> I mean, what version you have?
<hamitron> ;)
<DJones> sorry, just realised that
<DJones> 2011.08.04 (I'm on 11.10)
<hamitron> must be some fixes :/
<DJones> These are the options available in this version http://pastebin.com/3D9wnNAa
<hamitron> I guess it is tough keeping apps up-to-date with online services that change
<Laney> especially ones that probably don't want you doing it
<hamitron> DJones, yeh, different :)
<ali1234> i was thinking about that the other day when trying to rip a video from the bbc
<hamitron> http://pastebin.com/TuWMgMHC
<hamitron> one reason i don't like all this online stuff tbh
<ali1234> you can make a foolproof ripper by using tcpdump
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I can? ;/ maybe you can
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> then i was thinking a bit more
<ali1234> and i came up with the idea of dumping all packets and replaying them
<ali1234> rather than spidering everything and trying to keep up with site changes
<hamitron> but wouldn't that be messy, and increase storage size?
<ali1234> just record every outgoing stream, checksum on the first few bytes, and then store the response
<hamitron> also, would need another app that supports connecting in the first place
<ali1234> it would be done at the network device level
<ali1234> you'd have a special network device that has recording or playback modes
<ali1234> most of the infrastructure for this already exists
<jacobw> it'd allow many users on a high bandwidth domain to stream X from a low bandwidth domain
<ali1234> i suppose it could be used as a cache too
<ali1234> i've done some work on a wayback machine type of thing
<hamitron> imo, the bbc and youtube should just have torrents
<ali1234> and spidering pages that uses flash etc is hard
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> mainly because flashplugin crashes so much
<ali1234> the approach i used was to use webkit and hook every received file
<ali1234> since plugins go through the browser api for most stuff
<ali1234> but it isn't perfect
<Laney> how do I rate something in the software centre?
<ali1234> you have to write a review i think
<Laney> don't think so
<ali1234> and you have to be logged in of course
<Laney> but how do you get to that bit?
<ali1234> i don't really use software centre
<Laney> can't see anywhere to log in
<ali1234> you also have to have the package installed
<Laney> yes
<ali1234> you have to go to more info
<ali1234> then scroll down to "add your review"
<ali1234> "write your own review"
<Laney> found it
<hamitron> heh
<hamitron> youtube-dl is just a python script
<hamitron> so downloaded it and running with ./youtube-dl
<Laney> "An exception representing server-side error"
<hamitron> ;)
<Laney> hah
<ali1234> i tried to write a review once and it just crashed the whole thing
<ali1234> that was ages ago though
<ali1234> i heard that has been fixed
<Laney> worked on the second try
<hamitron> ali1234, 55mins remaining
<ali1234> hah
<ali1234> the video isn't worth it
<hamitron> oh, ok
<hamitron> well, at least I got the downloader fixed now, for when there is something worth getting
<hamitron> ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] UDS In Full Swing - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/02/uds-in-full-swing/
<dwatkins> I wish they hadn't turned off Google Reader's ability to share links via bookmarklet.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-03
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/open-source-procurement-toolkit
<diplo> Morning all
<_jane> Morning diplo
<_jane> I am affected by the bug #851055 tracked  at lauchpad
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 851055 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[Oneiric] 'Not Authorized' error given when mounting device" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851055
<_jane> lubotu3`: yes, that it
<_jane> the status is "fix released"
<AlanBell> yay, they finally published the toolkit
<_jane> I am not sure how I get access to the update. Just a apt-get update was not enough
<_serial_> apt-get upgrade?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey - A Cabinet Office document espousing the Four Freedoms :-)
<daubers> Morning
<diplo> Anyone know if I can run Gnome 3.2 on 10.10 ?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: wonder how that got there ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<_jane> _serial_: I will try that. Cheers!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh. On Open Standards: "have intellectual property made irrevocably available on a royalty free basis..."
<AlanBell> and Ubuntu gets a mention in the options catalog
<AlanBell> and Alfresco and OpenERP
<daubers> Anyone had experience of HP probooks?
<diplo> I'm using one right here daubers
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: they very nearly required open standards to be publicly available for free too, but bizarely I had to hold them back from that one
<daubers> diplo: Any good? Thinking of getting one to replace my desktop at work
<AlanBell> didn't want the BSI to challenge the whole definition because they couldn't charge Â£80 for a bit of paper
<diplo> Windows/Ubuntu ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just looking through the Options doc.
<daubers> diplo: Will be dual booted
<daubers> AlanBell: Is that the stuff you where consulting on?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good stuff in general. But they still talk about it like a COTS.
<AlanBell> the plan is to keep updating the options document over time
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not much on engagement.
<diplo> I dual boot, but rarely go into ubuntu as I just can't get setup right
<diplo> Part to do with ATI GFX card in it I think
<daubers> diplo: In what way?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, that was kind of intentional, it is aimed at people already in "product" mode thinking
<diplo> I use dual screens a lot and can't get it to work very well
<daubers> Hmmm... I'd be doing that more or less every day.
<diplo> Also, it Ubuntu ( not tried other OS's yet ) don't seem to control the fans very well
<diplo> in*
<AlanBell> daubers: I may have had a tiny bit of influence in a few areas :)
<diplo> So they spin up a lot more than in Windows
<daubers> diplo: Have you got the one with a quad amd in it?
<daubers> AlanBell: Heh :)
<daubers> Wonder what part of the kernel actually controls the fans
<daubers> Must be something like ACPI
<diplo> yeah, did a fair bit of looking 6 months or so ago, and I do think it can be fixed but I had spent so much time on it already
<diplo> It's the i3 ( my company are skin flints on hardware )
<diplo> :/
<daubers> Ah, I know a company who do ex demo/reconditioned stuff, so the quad AMD is about Â£400
<diplo> i3 M350 @ 2.27ghz
<diplo> Nice, cheaper than my new one
<diplo> I'd have been happy with that
<daubers> THis is a Phenom II N930 ' 2.0GHz
<_serial_> you can get refurb (dell) from http://www.mcscom.co.uk/ for quite cheap
<daubers> Be tempted to try and wangle a dock as well (Â£80 odd from the same place)
<diplo> I do like the laptop daubers, just got fed up of getting things right I guess.. really wanted an Intel chipset as they always just work for me
<ubuntubhoy> Morning guys, can anyone help remove the config files for OnBoard keyboard ?
<daubers> diplo: I'm a bit bored of stuff "just work"ing
<daubers> fancy getting my hands dirty getting stuff to work again
<MooDoo> _serial_: i use mark at msccom.co.uk :)   got one of my desktops from there
<daubers> I do wish AMD had something like the Intel Ark
<Myrtti> moin
<_serial_> MooDoo: cool :)  yup mark very friendly and helpful,
<smittix> Morning
<MooDoo> morning smittix
<bigcalm> Good morning, peeps :)
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: which bit of the config? your personal preferences?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> screen position to be exact
<ubuntubhoy> managed to move the right hand side off screen somehow
<ubuntubhoy> so the move icon is off screen
<AlanBell> oh heck, and alt+click drag doesn't work
<ubuntubhoy> nope
<ubuntubhoy> plus it has no window border
<AlanBell> are you running the version in oneiric-proposed?
<AlanBell> didn't think that had been fully released yet
<ubuntubhoy> hmm, maybe
<ubuntubhoy> probably infact
<ubuntubhoy> I deleted onboard, purged onboard, autoremoved stray libs, deleted onboard .folder, and deleted onboard folder from .config, and .gconf
<ubuntubhoy> still remembers the position
<AlanBell> yeah, it isn't an onboard configuration as such
<AlanBell> window manager somewhere
<ubuntubhoy> If only Newrez worked in oneiric, would be a simple workaround to move it back
<AlanBell> I was going to file a bug about the scanning layout not being draggable, but this is another situation where the lack of title bar is a bit inconvenient
<ubuntubhoy> even just a position option in the prefs app would work
<ubuntubhoy> or reset to defaults
<AlanBell> running unity 3d?
<ubuntubhoy> nah, Gnome Shell
<AlanBell> with compiz?
<ubuntubhoy> dont think Shell uses it by default, and I have not set it
<AlanBell> hmm, ok. For reference, with compiz in ccsm you can use the place windows plugin to set windows to start centred rather than "smart"
<ubuntubhoy> let me install fusion-icon and see if it will switch to compiz
<BigRedS> I don't think you can do Gnome-shell + compiz
<ubuntubhoy> neither did I
<ubuntubhoy> will soon find out how much it breaks it
<ubuntubhoy> Fusion-icon claims it has compiz running, installing CCSM
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: want me to file the bug?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, will be handy if someone else manages to push it off screen
<AlanBell> I will make sure it is fixed somehow before that version escapes from -proposed into the main repos
<ubuntubhoy> no joy with the compiz plugin
<ubuntubhoy> still starts in position
<ubuntubhoy> will just have to use Florence or the default Shell on-screen keyboard
<JamesTait> Happy Thursday, everyone! *8O)
<AlanBell> for anyone looking at the open source options catalog https://docs.google.com/#folders/0B2vdKVZndUC0YThlODVkNGQtMDJiMi00OGUyLWIxYjktNWUyNWRlZTY3YThl
<AlanBell> feel free to email Tariq with changes you want to it
<ali1234> link doesn't work
<ali1234> oh, now it does
<AlanBell> http://bit.ly/hDuFEG < does that one work?
<AlanBell> ok, in the readme is his email address at the Home Office
<AlanBell> he would love to hear feedback about the document and if you have additional free software products you would like to see on the list he is very likely to add them
<AlanBell> the list has been kicking about since february this year
<BigRedS> I do like how much free software stuff is hosted on google docs
<AlanBell> it is good for co-editing stuff that is more formatted than etherpad can do
<AlanBell> and you can export in odf formats for final formatting in LibreOffice
<BigRedS> yeah, it just seems a bit, well, non-free. Not that there's huge amounts in the way of alternatives at the minute
<AlanBell> yeah, when LibreOffice rendering to HTML 5 canvas hosted on Ubuntu One happens we will probably use that
<AlanBell> dunno if that will support co-editing though
<BigRedS> I imagine at some point it will. seems an inevitable feature really
<AlanBell> I have suggested that ODF needs to be extended with a protocol for co-editing
<AlanBell> so you would send ODF fragments and xpath locations over some kind of transport (telepathy or jabber or whatever) and they would be inserted at the other end
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting MQTT going to Eclipse... www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/11/ibm-open-sources-potential-int.php
<AlanBell> so you could have a bunch of people working together on different ODF supporting desktop clients all co-editing the same document via some kind of coordinating server
<TheOpenSourcerer> There was a working "mockup" of OOo using a Wiki backend to do just this a couple of years back.
<AlanBell> there was, not sure it was ODF based or at the UNO api level, or just wrote the whole document to the wiki
<AlanBell> how does MQTT going to eclipse make any sense whatsoever??
<ali1234> that's what i was just wondering
<oimon> are canonical missing a trick by not making a lightweight version with the raspberry pi guys? that thing could sell over a million units
<deej1976> https://abicollab.net/
<ali1234> probably
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a foundation (although a very IBM centric one) so control is less one-vendor driven.
<AlanBell> ok, so they are handing control of MQTT to the Eclipse foundation and it has nothing to do with the Eclipse software
<AlanBell> they want to make it more like the Apache foundation I guess
<TheOpenSourcerer> It gives it more independance
<TheOpenSourcerer> Might also be submitted to OASIS for ratification a little birdy tells me.
<AlanBell> oimon: no, for a couple of reasons, but if the raspberry pi does a hardware revision next year to a more current generation of ARM processor then it will probably run Ubuntu
<AlanBell> but if they do that they need to make a whole bunch of components on the board more expensive
<oimon> AlanBell: sure, although it might be a bit late for them to switch distro then
<AlanBell> no, not at all
<AlanBell> the thing has SD card storage and the idea is you have a bunch of them, not "this is my computer and it's operating system"
<ali1234> ubuntu is unsuited to running on hardware like that anyway
<AlanBell> that too
<ali1234> it doesn't have enough memory either
<AlanBell> well, just needs a bit more memory and a tiny bit more grunt
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it needs probably at least 4x as much memory and 2x as much CPU to run ubuntu reasonably
<ali1234> by reasonably i mean it boots before the class ends
<oimon> aren't they building an ARM fedora for it?
<ali1234> no, they are just using the regular ARM fedora
<ali1234> it is a lot easier to customize a fedora install and remove the useless parts
<oimon> that's why i was thinking of a ligtwieght ubuntu - more of a branding opportunity than the full ubuntu experience
<AlanBell> yes, by "a bit more memory" I meant just a gig or two and a bit more grunt just another core and a few hundred mhz :)
<oimon> this thing coudl be huge
<ali1234> the effort required to make a lightweight ubuntu...
<ali1234> it isn't worth it
<ali1234> it wouldn't be ubuntu any more
<ali1234> first thing that would need t go would be unity
<TheOpenSourcerer> erm. It's called debian.
<ali1234> yeah exactly
<ali1234> it uses debian already
<iclebyte> unity is gash for want of a better term
<BigRedS> Oh not this again. Isn't there something new to complain about?
<BigRedS> Ah! The google reader interface!
<BigRedS> we can do that
<MooDoo> ali1234: fedora o/ :)
<oimon> however if it used "ubuntu diet" version..
<ali1234> there is no such thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: I'm annoyed at the Google Reader Gadget in iGoogle. Lost all the Tags :-)
<oimon> my point is that it might have been worth the effort to do it to increase exposure - this thing will be popular in schools globally
<BigRedS> To be fair, I don't use Google reader, so I'm not sure. I just heard ranting from behind me yesterday from someone who does :)
<oimon> i would like to use google reader but liferea doesn't support it grrr
<shauno> I'd rather see the bbc put a face on it.  painting debian purple just for the sake of squeezing your branding where it doesn't belong, doesn't sound terribly productive
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell, FYI installed the non proposed OnBoard, and it starts as it should
<ali1234> the question is, does ubuntu want to be known as "the slow operating system that ruined the raspberry pi by being unusable"
<oimon> it would be nice to see the owl on it :P
<ubuntubhoy> what was really weird with the proposed version is it even remembered the theme
<BigRedS> oimon: Would it be worthwhile if the standard Ubuntu was completely different to the 'lightweight' one?
<AlanBell> ali1234: no, which is why I told them to take Ubuntu off their marketing material
<oimon> BigRedS: possibly as the pi will get into new markets not previously reached..i guess others disagree though
<AlanBell> well actually because it wasn't going to run at all on ARM 6 instruction set
<ali1234> and it hasn't done for a long time
<daubers> Hmmm... not good http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/03/disk_drive_prices_may_double/
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: bug 885608
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 885608 in onboard (Ubuntu) "if you manage to get onboard move button offscreen you can't get it back" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885608
<BigRedS> oimon: but what's teh point if it's not the ubuntu anyone's going to use? It might as well be Debian or whatever
<ubuntubhoy> cheers
<oimon> BigRedS:  rom my POV i don't care as long as it's linux.
<oimon> /rom/from
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Well Windows CE wouldn't really work very well would it? ;-) And it would double (or more) the price.
<ali1234> ubuntu is no longer meant to be installed by the user anyway
<oimon> ali1234: not true, otherwise they wouldn't insist on fitting on the CD and making an excellent installer
<gord> back home from uds now :) was really great this year and i was only there for 2.5 days!
<ali1234> the installer is all about configuring the user
<AlanBell> with the Raspberry Pi you would have a stack of SD cards, maybe cards with a Linux From Scratch project, Debian, Fedora, Debian/Hurd, minix, BeOS etc.
<ali1234> the actual installation part is entirely automated and the user has no control
<AlanBell> it isn't supposed to have a permanently installed boot disk
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh. Yeah - LFS 7 was released yesterday
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although technicall AlanBell on the Pi it would need to be CLFS
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what is that? cross compiled?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> LFS is x86
<ali1234> i don't see why you would have all your cards running a different distro
<ali1234> just pick one and then make cards for each task
<AlanBell> you certainly could do that too
<ali1234> most kids will probably end up with 1 card for each class that uses it
<ali1234> which means they'll probably have 1 card for word processing, and 1 card for whatever programming class
<ali1234> however given the size of sd cards now, those can probably be put on 1 card
<AlanBell> I know they want to do a card that boots up a BBC micro emulator
<ali1234> lol
 * BigRedS would buy that
<ali1234> well good luck licencing the roms
<AlanBell> they want the BBC to publish that card
<oimon> would kids need a pc in their room if web browsing and openoffice work OK on the pi?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> web browsing won't work well on it
<oimon> have you seen the demos?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and i am also familiar with the hardware
 * AlanBell has seen one
<BigRedS> flash for arm?
<ali1234> and i have worked on ARM distros for a couple of years
<ali1234> yes, flash will be the big problem, flash for ARM totally sucks
<AlanBell> it will work as badly as an android browser on a slow arm smart phone
<ali1234> and the next biggest problem will be getting a real browser to run in such tiny amount of memory
<AlanBell> except you will be running it at a higher resolution
<ali1234> then there's that whole, "i'm word processing a report and i need to check something on google" problem
<AlanBell> functional, but not enjoyable if you have expectations formed from a modern desktop or laptop
<ali1234> where you have to reboot, swap cards, wait 5 minutes for it to boot, check google, reboot, swap cards, wait 5 minutes for it to boot back into the word processor
<ali1234> (if you use this crazy idea of lots of different cards)
<BigRedS> Nobody is going to do that
<oimon> how about running free-nx on it and using as a thin client :)
<oimon> to daddy's PC
<AlanBell> it isi not a desktop computer. It is a platform for doing interesting things in computing.
<BigRedS> I thought the bulk of the point of it was that it's a project base, not a PC?
<BigRedS> It doesn't need to run Firefox or flash or whatever, just vi and Perl
<BigRedS> or whatever
<oimon> quake3 runs ok on it :)
<oimon> ok/well/
<ali1234> quake3 has minimal system requirements
<ali1234> it has already been ported to opengl|es for example
<ali1234> and it is like 10 years old
<AlanBell> if you think of it as a high powered arduino you are in the right place with your expectations
<BigRedS> oimon: yeah, quake 3 runs on my 1995 thinkpad
<ali1234> everyone always ports quake3 because it is so easy
<BigRedS> Firefox doesn't
<oimon> personally i am thinking of an upgrade to my nslu2 , but thinking about other uses
<ali1234> nslu
<ali1234> aren't those arm?
<ali1234> or mips?
<oimon> ARM
<oimon> 32MB RAM , 266mhz ARM xscale
<shauno> I have wondered that; whether this pi business has gumstix terrified
<ali1234> hopefully
<ali1234> gumstix is a total rip off
<ali1234> theyare all about making boards that are only compatible with each other and selling them for 200% more than a generic board
<oimon> i wonder what the profit margin is on the pi
<AlanBell> barely anything
<BigRedS> that's the point, I thought?
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Raspberry Pi is a charity and a NFP
<oimon> ah, thanks for the clarification.
<oimon> they are good guys :)
<oimon> spent 10 mins trying to navigate the menus for my car insurer :(
<oimon> on the phone
<BigRedS> Anyone know how to configure an Amazon EC2 alert so that if *any* instance (ideally of a given type) meet the criteria it'll alert, rather than just an aggregation of them?
<oimon> RMS speaking in east london tonight @ goldsmiths college
<oimon> http://castlondon.com/events/stallman.html
<MooDoo> oimon: he spoke at nottingham, the about of "he's a sh**" feedback i got was imense
<BigRedS> It's odd how as free software's become more acceptable to everyone else, he seems to have become less acceptable to free softwary people
<oimon> i wonder if you have to be that kind of character? simon phipps preaches a similar message but doesn't cause as much offence
<freakyclown> guys, my notification area in unity in 11.10 has stopped kinda working
<freakyclown> whats there already i can use, but if i open up something new it does appear there
<freakyclown> is there a quick way to reset it?
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/2011-11-03/ UDS starts in 50 minutes or so, live audio streams available from the rooms, and you can talk back over IRC, ask if you see anything interesting and want help getting set up to participate
<ali1234> AlanBell: the schedule page is really hard to read :(
<oimon> +1
<AlanBell> I know
<oimon> took a while before i realised the times were on the LHS
<oimon> in size 2
<NET||abuse> hmm, so anyone know of a solution to oneiric and pulse audio streaming?
<AlanBell> everyone is a bit scared of the code that generates it
<oimon> lol
<oimon> wow, the descriptions are size 0
<ali1234> yeah exactly
<NET||abuse> i have a natty laptop and an oneiric desktop without speakers or accessible headphone jack
<oimon> compiz zoom FTW
<NET||abuse> so want to stream all desktop audio to laptop.
<ali1234> 4pm UK time: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19502/community-p-ux-participation/
<NET||abuse> but pavdevchooser isn't in oneiric anymore
<NET||abuse> so how can i select my laptop as the pulse audio device?
<NET||abuse> pavdev? padevchooser
<NET||abuse> :P
<AlanBell> oimon: click the little pen+pad icon to read the descriptions at a more sensible size
<ali1234> then at 7pm: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19794/design-p-unity-benchmark-testing-results/
<AlanBell> great, absolutly pile on and beat the unity devs :)
<AlanBell> nicely of course, but do give your feedback
<ali1234> and 8pm: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19612/community-p-dev-outreach/
<AlanBell> there is also a 15 minute talk on UEFI and Secure Boot at 18:30
<ali1234> i don't see what anyone can do about that
<ali1234> the only circumstances under which i would even turn it on are if i can choose the key
<AlanBell> nothing at all can be done technically, but I think they will say what they are doing to get OEMs to allow you to choose the key http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19245/plenary-uefi/
<AlanBell> plus what they are going to do to provide a signed grub I guess
<ali1234> i want self signing or nothing
<NET||abuse> in oneiric, how do i change the popout menu behaviour, there's no obvious settings for it in System settings.
<AlanBell> NET||abuse: I think you are supposed to like it :)
<ali1234> whats a pop out menu?
<AlanBell> there are sessions on making unity more customisable
<ali1234> i've heard of pop up menus
<AlanBell> the right click on a launcher item menu?
<NET||abuse> i tend to use synergy, and the menu is causing some glitchyness, so wan tto turn off having it pop from mousing onto the left edge to just the left upper corner
<ali1234> ah launcher reveal
<NET||abuse> actually in natty the customization was all through ccsm i think
<NET||abuse> hmm, would have to install ccsm in oneiric
<ali1234> it still is afaik
<AlanBell> ccsm, unity plugin, reveal mode
<NET||abuse> ah yeh, i looked for that before, and ccsm isn't in repos.
<NET||abuse> :(
<ali1234> sure it is
<ali1234> i have it installed :/
<NET||abuse> oh, i was looking for literally ccsm
<AlanBell> ccsm isn't the package name
<NET||abuse> forgot the package is called compizconfig-settings-manager
<ali1234> use the launcher application lens
<ali1234> just enter "compiz" and it will find it
<ali1234> click to install through software centre
<ali1234> this stuff works quite well now
<AlanBell> NET||abuse: glad you found that, I can never remember where the hyphens go!
<NET||abuse> ahhhhhh
<NET||abuse> i never realized the lens thing did that!
<NET||abuse> awsome
<NET||abuse> hehe
<AlanBell> I have set mine to never hide because I don't need the pixels and it keeps getting in the way of browser back buttons
<ali1234> yeah i get that all the time
<ali1234> go to top left to go back and accidentally touch the edge of the screen
<ali1234> not just in the browser either
<ali1234> there is too much stuff concentrated in the top left corner
<NET||abuse> hmm, checked the lens for Pulse, found PulseAudio Manager.
<ali1234> also it happens with gedit or terminal when i want to select a block of text
<ali1234> very annoying
<NET||abuse> maybe i can do networked pulseaudio wth that?
<ali1234> isn't there a way to tunnel PA over ssh
<ali1234> like ssh -X but for PA
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/2145/how-can-i-use-pulseaudio-over-ssh
<NET||abuse> ali1234: the accepted answer there points to a 2009 blog entry which includes use of padevchooser which is no longer included in oneiric
<ali1234> well maybe there is something useful in the other answers, idk
<NET||abuse> hmm, actually, i'll take that back, blog entry only mentions it in passing,
<NET||abuse> this example is a little more involved and ssh'y
 * NET||abuse sad
<ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccomplishmentsSpec :O
<freakyclown> anyone have an answer for my Q earlier?
<freakyclown> about reseting the indicator panel?
<oimon> have you tried a unity --reset?
<freakyclown> i *NEED* to get to tomboy and as its not displaying anything new i cant :/
<NET||abuse> freakyclown: you having sync failure with tomboy on oneiric also?
<NET||abuse> I have that issue?
<NET||abuse> gets 38 notes, then fails. not clear reason why
<oimon> thursday...hmm subway for lunch
<freakyclown> well......that fucked everything :/
<freakyclown> made things worse and then i had to reboot and loose a bunch of work cause i couldnt save what i needed
<bigcalm> !ohmy | freakyclown
<lubotu3`> freakyclown: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<NET||abuse> hmm, seems ccsm isn't making changes take affect yet
<ging> freakyclown: this is 1 of those channels where they won't let me discuss what i did in the toilet
<NET||abuse> turned on screenshot plugin and set launcher icon sizes down and top left activation zone, none of it working yet.
<oimon> probably for the best ging
 * freakyclown debates putting ubuntu/unity in the toilet :/
<NET||abuse> is the gnome shell install on oneiric now compatible with unity? Natty wasn't, you couldn't instal side by side due to conflicts
<NET||abuse> ubuntu uk podcast episode they mentioned gnome shell was in repo's and should just work now
<NET||abuse> or did they just see it in repo's and didn't think of the conflict scenario?
<freakyclown> awesome now i have two battery indicators! :/
<NET||abuse> well uninstall and indicator
<NET||abuse> i have conky running with battery info too
<freakyclown> NET||abuse: would be easy if i had installed one!
<freakyclown> this has just appeared on reboot :/
<NET||abuse> owwh,
<NET||abuse> what'd you install?
<freakyclown> tons of stuff since last reboot ;)
<DJones> Its not often I unfollow something/body on twitter, but wikileaks has turned into a propoganda stream for Assange now
<BigRedS> When wasn't it one of them?
<DJones> True, but at least until recently, it did put info about what it was leaking, now its just about the extradition/rape/paypal/visa claims
<morsnowski> hi guys
<morsnowski> why would "sudo chmod -R a=rw /media/truecrypt4/" not change permissions for that folder and it's children
<morsnowski> it just doesn't do anything, no error no nothing
<ali1234> DJones: they stopped leaking things. apparently they have no money to pay people to do redactions
<DJones> ali1234: Yes, I knew about that
<BigRedS> morsnowski: I take it an ls -ld on that directory before and after is the same, adn that's how you're verifying that nothing's changed?
<BigRedS> what sort of filesystem is it in/on?
<morsnowski> yes
<morsnowski> ntfs in a truecrypt volume
<morsnowski> hmm i thnink i made it ntfs, let me check
<BigRedS> chmod doesn't understand ntfs, I can't remember how you get round that, though. I think you need to specify permissions at mount time?
<BigRedS> It's been a long time since I last interfered with an ntfs volume...
<morsnowski> /dev/dm-0  fuseblk   107768572  46330428  61438144  43% /media/truecrypt4
<morsnowski> so it's something truecrytinian
<jacobw> free graze box â  4MYNPP7
<morsnowski> hmm I'll just mount it under windows and set as open as permissions I can find. lets see what that does . thanks
<sadsun> hi
<BigRedS> morsnowski: that probably wont help - Linux doesn't understand ntfs permissions
<jacobw> o/ sadsun
 * sadsun waves back
<jacobw> sadsun: i posted 'free graze box â  4MYNPP7' just before you arrived
<sadsun> o_O whats that?
<jacobw> sadsun: its a voucher for graze.com that gives you a free box of interesting food
<sadsun> ah I'm in the Netherlands
<jacobw> ah ha
<sadsun> looks good though
 * sadsun has been considering to become a vegetarian for some time now
 * oimon is a vegetarian at breakfast
<sadsun> lol, thats a start :P
<jacobw> i'm starting my second attempt at vegetarianism
<sadsun> it aint easy, thats for sure
<jacobw> my last attempt lasted a month, hopefully this one will be better :)
<BigRedS> why are you doing it?
<jacobw> it feels better, its hard to keep up, like going to the gym or doing kickboxing
<oimon> i would die of malnutrition if i was vegetarian
<sadsun> i used to eat ready-meal dinners and the only option is a veg.lasagna when it comes to ready-meals
<jacobw> i cooked a batch of vegetable curry last night, that should provide a few meals
<popey> oimon: you were asking about linuxprinting.org recently..?
<oimon> popey: yes
<popey> I just spoke to Till and he said the new server was delivered this week
<oimon> ooh yeah :D
<oimon> thanks for the info
<popey> he will be given the backups and will reinstall the site
<oimon> just checked the site twice today already
<popey> and he's setting up a fail over site too, hosted by canonical
<oimon> didn't relaise how much i relied on it
<popey> and an update for jockey to make it check both servers
<directhex> vegetarianism is fine, as long as you define bacon as a vegetable
<BigRedS> I do have friends who insist that since pigs are vegetarian, I can eat them
<bigcalm> Dear VM. You suck
<MooDoo> i like vegitarians, just can't eat a whole one
<MooDoo> bad dum tish
<bigcalm> Morning, davmor2
<czajkowski> UDS-P Day 3 http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/03/uds-p-day-3/
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hope you're having a good time davmor2 and czajkowski and popey :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: too busy but fun
<MooDoo> davmor2: well don't work too hard
<czajkowski> indeed
<oimon> where does apt-get source download files to?
<davmor2> oimon: where ever it is told to
<ali1234> the current directory
<bigcalm> I fear that trying to send an email is asking too much of VirginMedia today :(
<oimon> ali1234: thanks
<oimon> i had a version of foomatic from 2010 , but was unsure if that was the one apt-get had got
<oimon> need to compile a ppd file :-\
<bigcalm> What's the difference between the CSD and the PWD?
<oimon> what's a csd
<mattt> afternoon
<bigcalm> Current Selected Directory
<deej1976> !info csd
<lubotu3`> Package csd does not exist in natty
<deej1976> !csd
<bigcalm> It's not a package, it's a location
<oimon> how can i create a PPD from the XML?
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> i done cat some.pdf and now shell is bust...
<dogmatic69> [â¬â_â¤âââ_ââº_â»âÂ° âââ´âââºâ» â¡] $
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: type 'reset' and hit enter
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 3 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/03/uds-p-day-3/
<smittix> :/
<BigRedS> I tidied up my home directory this morning
<BigRedS> It actually feels teh same now as if I'd tidied my desk
<BigRedS> it's awesome
<smittix> Have some people never heard of Archives. A user has a 15gb Mailbox
<smittix> Exchange is crying
<BigRedS> Have some people never heard of mail servers? smittix is running Exchange!
<BigRedS> :)
<smittix> Not me personally
<smittix> :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah. I remember the fun of enforcing archiving-to-pst
<smittix> We just hit the 75gb Mailstore limit
<smittix> Exchange fell over - fun times.
<MooDoo> yay
 * smittix is playing with KDE
<BigRedS> I pondered trying that KDE 3 fork the other day
<BigRedS> Either I'll like that, or I'm just viewing old things through rose-tinted specs
<jacobw> rose tinted specs
<BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, having hunted down the old version, it usually turns out to be that :(
<jacobw> superkaramba was ahead of its time
<BigRedS> KDE4 seemed alright until I noticed the combination of needing a big amount of configuring to work, and a tendency to forget that config between sessions
<jacobw> i used to be a kde fan before the long wait to 4.0
<jacobw> i care much more about applications, most applications are written in GTK and gnome2/gnome3/unity provide me with a good way to switch focus between applications :)
<DJones> INteresting http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42867/commodore-64-extreme-model-launched quad core, i7, 8Gb ram, 2Tb HDD & running Mint
<jacobw> :o
<smittix> that reminds me.
<smittix> Amiga has there own tablets
<sadsun> uh c64... the good old days :)
<BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, I've noticed that the only three things I require of my DE are ctrl+alt+arrow to move workspaces, alt+f2 and a wifi configurator
<oimon> bad time to buy spare disks :(
<smittix> My favourite game was on the Amiga, "Valhalla"
<Azelphur> I was about 5 in the days of the amiga :D
<Azelphur> I remember going into my brothers bedroom with premade breakfast and chanting "big car game!" until he woke up and played jaguar XJ220 with me :p
<shauno> I still have mine.  there's more games available for it than there is my mac ;)
<oimon> i have an amiga mammoth memory module at home for some reason
<oimon> anyone still have an amiga?
<Azelphur> I also used to love lemmings, wasn't actually old enough to play it, I just used to press the nuke button and giggle manically when they all exploded xD
<shauno> I still have my 1200, but I can't seem to populate any more ram.  if I do, I can't address the pcmcia slot
<DJones> Azelphur: Lemmings was good, I also liked Choplifter on the Apple II's
<oimon> it's a a500 RAM expansion
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> ah; the other half-a-meg which pops in the bomb bay?
<oimon> yes
<Azelphur> and on gauntlet I used to sit there pressing up and down on the character select screen, so it'd be like wiz-warr-wiz-warr, \o/
<shauno> yeah.  mine has 4MB & a new cpu in that bay :)
<oimon> 4mb..wow
<oimon> you must be single, right?
<oimon> i had 10 PCs in my house before i got married
<shauno> my amiga lasted longer than my marriage, but I'm not sure it could take sole blame
<oimon> :(
<DJones> oimon: You should have just moved them into the loft, they'd never get disturbed then
<oimon> i didn't have a loft at the time, but i would now
<oimon> there is a g4 powerbook up there that lasted a week on me...why i still have it?
<DJones> I think I've got a Dell Poweredge server case & motherboard in mine, must be a good 10 years old, every other bit of it has been canibalised
<oimon> my airfix models are up there :(
<oimon> and books
<DJones> I do have an office/computer room with 2 working desktops, 2 laptops, 2 desktops (not set up), 2 printers .....
<oimon> my toddler walks past his old bedroom and points and says "DADA"
<oimon> yes, it's daddy study now :)
<MooDoo> my 3 year old says the reason there are no mermaids is that the dinosaurs ate them all
<DJones> MooDoo: How does the 3 year old explain there not being any dinosours left now
<Seeker`> DJones: mermaids are poisonous of course!
<jacobw> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Lies-Tell-Small-Kids/dp/0340834056
<Seeker`> I once told my brother that milk was poisonous just after he finished a big glass of milk :D
<oimon> i was shocked to see that the mermaids on bagpuss had boobies
<oimon> the ones on mr benn don't
<jacobw> Seeker`: that's cold :o
<Seeker`> yup, milk was right out of the fridge :P
<Seeker`> I told him the truth a minute or two later
<jacobw> lol
<jacobw> lightning :o
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Leadership Summit Part Two Today - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/03/leadership-summit-part-two-today/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] LetMetRead : Google Reader - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/letmetread-google-reader/
<davmor2> czajkowski: behave or I'll rip your arm off and beat you with the soggy end
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha - go to google and type "do a barrel roll"
<gord> davmor2, behave :P
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: gah!
<AlanBell> http://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/google_gravity/
<bigcalm> Very clever
<AlanBell> secure boot UDS session about to start if people are interested
<AlanBell> vlc http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grandsierra-d.ogg.m3u to listen in
<popey> can you tweet that?
<AlanBell> twote it
 * MartijnVdS hears nothing
<AlanBell> popey: what happened to the audio
<MartijnVdS> \o/ audios
<AlanBell> back
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: there was no audio at that moment
<Pendulum> the room was incredibly quiet
<AlanBell> it faded out on the applause :)
 * smittix has python woes.
 * mgdm is attempting to use ctypes to wrap a library he wrote
<mgdm> Though I've just realised that the bit of hardware I want to drive doesn't work on the Mac, which is what I'm using
<jacobw> what's up smittix ?
<jacobw> youtube's layout has changed
<smittix> jacobw: just getting to grips with it. Trying to create a pop up dialog to ask if the user really wants to quit. heh
<Azelphur> My brother says a desk like this won't take much weight, http://www.outlawdesignblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2770294049_635dde0069.jpg
<Azelphur> thoughts? I think it will o.O
<BigRedS> Depends on teh size of much
<BigRedS> but it hardly looks weaker than any other desk
<Azelphur> BigRedS: yea, but I'm planning on putting a super heavyweight computer on it (steel, 4 hdds, dual gpus, water cooling with 480mm rad), along with quad screen and lots of other heavy stuff
<Azelphur> so it's really gotta take a beating
<BigRedS> if someone else is making it, get the specs from them, if you are, just reinforce it appropriately
<BigRedS> or stick the PC on the floor...
<Azelphur> yea, my brother found a local carpenter that was LFW
<ali1234> it depends what kind of qood you make it out of
<ali1234> wood
<ali1234> Azelphur: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/IMAG0080.jpg
<ali1234> that's a proper desk :)
<Azelphur> :o
<Azelphur> that is a propr desk.
<BigRedS> I ike the vice
<Azelphur> I think it would be a bit too small for me though
<ali1234> lolll
<ali1234> its huge though
<Azelphur> It's nearly swamped with 3, what are those 17" monitors?
<Azelphur> I have 4 26"
<ali1234> yeah but you probably don't have a solder rework station and a 32 port switch
<Azelphur> true
<smittix> You guys should think yourself lucky
<smittix> My desk is my knee
<Azelphur> the desk I already have is about the same size of that, just without the cool keyboard tray
<Azelphur> and it's really cramped
 * BigRedS wonders if smittix is Santa
<smittix> heh
<Azelphur> and my monitors are basically like | __ __ |
<Azelphur> xD
<smittix> I once had an office until my daughter came along.
<jacobw> 2 up 2 down?
<smittix> Yeah,
<smittix> Up for sale too so I can get an office back!
<smittix> But then another child will come along and take control of it.
<smittix> Need to make sure it already has a study
<jacobw> ha, i was talking about Azelphur's depiction of his monitors
<Azelphur> jacobw: nah, I have a standard rectangular desk, and 2 monitors take up about 70% of the desk space
<Azelphur> so I have them widescreen, but the only way they'll fit on is with 2 monitors practically sideways
<smittix> jacobw: HEH! thought you meant my house
<smittix> which was correct anyway
<smittix> I have some how messed my version number up using quickly :/ https://launchpad.net/autostart-changer
<jacobw> i should get more involved in ubuntu
<tonytiger> do it!
<ali1234> the superliminal technique
<jacobw> ?
 * jacobw pokes launchpad
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xx4BsBr2fU
<BigRedS> Ooh. Apparently I've earned the tumbleweed badge on serverfault
<mattt> if anyone is in/around datchet, don't order the large cod from drunken fish
 * mattt goes to die
<bigcalm> Drunken cook?
<AlanBell> Azelphur: and others with multi monitors -> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19457/desktop-p-multi-monitor/
<AlanBell> I would like some people to get involved in localised isos http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19613/community-p-localized-iso-community-growth/
<AlanBell> so we could have an image that installs without Americanisms
<diplo> I'd be up for that AlanBell
<AlanBell> cool, from what I have read there are scripts that kind of just do it, based on the translations that are available
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/LocalizedImagesRollout
<AlanBell> I put myself down as the contact but I really don't have time to actually do it
<diplo> 'The Queens English'
<diplo> :D
<Azelphur> AlanBell: blank etherpad is blank?
<smittix> interesting
<AlanBell> Azelphur: yes, the session is tomorrow!
<Azelphur> ah :)
<Azelphur> tbh all the limitations in multi monitor support are in the driver
<AlanBell> oh, plenty of limitations in unity design too
<gord> there is no unity design for multi-monitor :) at least as of right now
<gord> we did the best we could to get something working, but there is always more we want to do
<Azelphur> AlanBell: ah yea, that's somewhat true, limitations ie "It doesn't work at all"
<Azelphur> which is why I switched to XFCE in 11.10
<AlanBell> unity kind of works over two monitors for me
<diplo> Didn't work for me at all
<Azelphur> If you have separate X screens, it doesn't initialise the desktop environment on anything but :0
<Azelphur> which means, you just get a white background and a black X pointer, that's it.
<diplo> Went back to 10.10 on desktop, started using win7 on lappy
<AlanBell> oh, I have one X screen
<Azelphur> yea
<AlanBell> laptop + hdmi port to largeish monitor
<AlanBell> it is better than 11.04 was
<Azelphur> AlanBell: it's pretty much what i've always said, if your dual screen your fine and everybody likes you
<Azelphur> but if you use more than 2, most people will tell you to go away.
<AlanBell> no, it is still broken on two screens
<AlanBell> just not as broken as it used to be
<Azelphur> AlanBell: yea but "partially broken" and "Doesn't work at all and is entirely unsupported" are leagues apart
<AlanBell> they were demoing a 6 monitor rig at UDS a couple of days ago
<AlanBell> just trying to find the articles about it
<Azelphur> yea, you'll probably find that was ATI powered
<Azelphur> or that they used xinerama which means no compiz/composite
<diplo> Azelphur, mine was broke on natty on my laptop with a ATI card
<diplo> not tried Oneric on that laptop yet
<diplo> Book marked those links AlanBell, will take a look at work tomorrow
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> add 4 hours to the times
<diplo> tbh I've moved to Gnome3 at home and got to say I prefer it over Unity so far, more responsive and less buggy for me so far
<diplo> I was crashing 2-3 times a night, and just couldn't find what the issue was
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1373/detail/
<AlanBell> nottingham happy hour could do with more attendees :)
<diplo> Really would like to make that, but can get up there as I'm visiting headoffice 2 weeks later
<diplo> Can't ask to come twice :D
<diplo> Have to wait for a more local one
<AlanBell> tonytiger: pingaling
<AlanBell> Azelphur: picture http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/ubuntu-desktop-designers-clarify-on-configurability/
<AlanBell> there was a rather bad video of it too somewhere
<diplo> Good night all
<Azelphur> hehe
<AlanBell> no idea what they had driving it, or what they said about it, but I think it is good that they are contemplating the problem
<AlanBell> fundamental stuff like you are working on an app in the bottom right screen and you want to launch a text editor and you have to go to the top left screen to get to the launcher
<AlanBell> at least you should now have a menu on the same monitor as the application
<AlanBell> even though I think global menus are just a broken concept
<jacobw> !politics
<lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<hamitron> did i miss a nice arguement? :/
<jacobw> nope, just me wanting to know which was the politics channel
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-04
<czajkowski> just went up up a helium balloon
<DJones> Morning
<Adriannom> morning
<diplo> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<Adriannom> how do i disable escape sequences on the console?  that is, i just want a regular escape key
<tonytiger> AlanBell: pong?
<j0nr> morning
<Adriannom> odd that i can't find anything on google about it.  surely people have used apps that need a basic esc key..
<Adriannom> dosbox it is then :s
<dwatkins> Adriannom: stty?
<Adriannom> dwatkins, thanks for the suggestion, doesn't seem to help though
<dwatkins> What do you want esc to do, Adriannom?
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello cz
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski
 * JamesTait yawns, stretches and blinks. "Good morning." :)
<czajkowski> indeed
 * bigcalm does a safety dance
<daubers> You can dance
<BigRedS> a safety dance/
<daubers> doo doo do da doo doo doo do
<bigcalm> Everybody: look at your hands
<MooDoo> you been watching glee again?
<bigcalm> That track is over too soon
 * bigcalm wishes he was big in Japan
<bigcalm> Actually. When I visited in 2004, I was taller than the average height, so technically...
 * MooDoo would be a giant
 * deej1976 Yawn slow day
<smittix> Moaning
<sadsun> mornin'
<bigcalm> Mining
<smittix> heh
<bigcalm> 128.7p per litre at asda - What does it normally cost for petrol then?
<DJones> smittix: Its the other channel for the "mining" :)
<DJones> bigcalm: Asda near home is 131.7 for petrol, 137.7 for diesel
<sadsun> go Tesla :)
<Adriannom> dwatkins, i want apps in the console to recognise esc as the escape key.  what i don't want is instead the escape key to start an escape sequence
<bigcalm> DJones: noticed a retweet that asda have cut their price to 128.7p. As I'm a diesel drinker, I have no idea what that really means :)
<DJones> not heard about that, but sounds like its 3p/litre off
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/#!/asda/status/132352885882232833
<smittix> DJones: huh mining?
<bigcalm> 136.7p per litre for diesel it would seem
<DJones> looking at that, 3p off unleaded and only 1p off diesel
<DJones> Going on the prices at my local asda
<bigcalm> I fill up once every 6 weeks or so
<bigcalm> Costs about 80 quid though
<DJones> I fill up about twice a month, probably costs Â£140 in total
<DJones> smittix: Sorry, it was bigcalm that said "mining" :)
 * DJones polishes his eyeballs
<dwatkins> Adriannom: hmm, have you checked the keymap/locale? Sounds like something's wrong there... or do you mean ctrl+C functionality, i.e. quit?
<Halabund> Anyone have some clues for this one? --> http://askubuntu.com/questions/75395/poor-sound-quality-on-ubuntu-compared-to-winxp-why
<Adriannom> dwatkins, i mean certain apps aren't registering it as an escape key because instead it's starting an "escape sequence", which waits for a further character and does something else.  maybe it's that the app is badly coded or something, not sure, either way i'd like to try to get standard escape key functionality.
<Adriannom> dwatkins, so something isn't wrong, the escape sequence thing is a documented feature, there just doesn't appear to be a way of changing it
<Halabund> how do I get F1 to work in console programs?  It just brings up the gnome-terminal help
<Adriannom> not that i can find anyway
<Adriannom> Halabund, not sure.  try http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=linux+console+%22disable+f1%22
<Halabund> Adriannom, thanks, I already did.  I'll just use xterm instead, it's the easiest
<Halabund> I don't need F1 every day anyway
<Adriannom> Halabund, did you try with double quotes around the "disable f1"?  i didn't get good results without
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 4 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/04/uds-p-day-4/
<Adriannom> %22 = "
<DJones> I like this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ Nice explanations of version numbers :)
<daubers> Hooray! Arduinos and MQTT are helping me win an argument with the estate agents and the landlord
<daubers> I love science and technology :-D
<BigRedS> haha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<sadsun> goodmornin'bro
<brobostigon> morning sadsun
<DJones> Morning brobostigon, have you been released ok
<brobostigon> DJones: yes, i have, yesterday. the infection id clear, now. however, my skin still needs some healing.
<DJones> Good news then
<brobostigon> DJones: yes, i look forward to some good food again, :)
<DJones> :)
<brobostigon> DJones: so it will be chicken curry, and beer night, :)
<DJones> Heh, I had chicken curry & wine last night
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> daubers, what are you proving ?
<DJones> brobostigon: Just debating what filling to put in a suet pudding for dinner tomorrow, looking like steak & veg & ale
<brobostigon> DJones: sounds good, :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Development of SlickPanel : Configuration - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/development-of-slickpanel-configuration/
<BigRedS> I _really_ wish * expanded as far as dotfiles
<BigRedS> it seems so daft it not
<bigcalm> Sod it, sub way it is then
<jacobw> Halabund: man <command>
<Halabund> jacobw, ??
<daubers> diplo: That there is a damp problem stemming from the humidity, and that it comes from the back of the flat
<BigRedS> Apparently there's a mozilla fair in London this weekend
<BigRedS> anyone know what that is?
<popey> morning
<DJones> Morning popey
 * deej1976 checks clock hmm 
<jacobw> BigRedS: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Festival2011
<BigRedS> jacobw: Ah! Ta! Why couldn't they put that on the website...
 * popey tickles aquarius 
 * aquarius is tickled
<DJones> Are you still enjoying UDS
<jacobw> switching between terminal windows in unity is fustrating :(
<MattJ> Not for me
<AlanBell> jacobw: what I did in the end was turn off the unity switcher keybindings and turn on one of the regular compiz switcher plugins
<gord> i generally just use terminator and split my terminals
<jacobw> i should be using tabs in gnome-terminal or terminator not multiple gnome terminal instances
<deej1976> screen
<gord> but i'v never been good at alt tabbing with any alt tabber though, so tend to keep everything in one window
<MattJ> I use terminator in a tiling window manager, so that's saying something
<AlanBell> I would like to use the standard one, but until it stops raising every window of an app it doesn't work for me
<jacobw> AlanBell: ccsm?
<AlanBell> jacobw: yes
<gord> :O dang it. i forgot to get curly wurly's from popey :(
<AlanBell> turned on application switcher
<popey> gord: have yo left?
<gord> popey, yeah back home now
<popey> bummer
<gord> popey, throw them out at a plenary, introduce the americans ;)
<popey> heh
 * TheOpenSourcerer has a cheese sarny with his home-made chilli chutney :-D
<AlanBell> which is very tasty
<brobostigon> yummy, :)
 * deej1976 hmmm chilli chutney 
 * AlanBell had a spoonful earlier, still warming my mouth nicely
<deej1976> jealous
<gord> not being able to publish entire directories in ubuntu one is a pain :(
<popey> how do you make the launcher stay out?
<popey> and not hide
<AlanBell> in ccsm unity plugin Hide Launcher set to never
<popey> yay
<popey> ta
<popey> thats so much nicer
<AlanBell> it is
<czajkowski> ohh really
<czajkowski> handy
<jacobw> cheese can record video, skype cannot
<czajkowski> I find I've to move my mouse in and out till it comes out
<AlanBell> much less swearing involved when trying to get to a browser back button
<gord> cheese can record video *and* make you have a funny face
<jacobw> neither of which is what i want :p
<jacobw> the video test in skype's options dialogue works
<jacobw> but the microphone doesn't work with anything
<DJones> Anybody with a kindle around for a quick question, just reading some reviews and one comment which I've not seen repeated anywhere is that because the screen isn't backlit, you're not able to read at night, I do a lot of reading at night/morning when its dark and just wondered whether that would rule out the kindle/kobo etc with e-ink screens
<bigcalm> DJones: How well can you read a book in the dark?
<DJones> bigcalm: I use my phone to read ebooks, so thats backlit & not a problem
<bigcalm> I have the 50 quid leather case with built in light. Well worth the cost in protecting the kindle and lighting the screen
<bigcalm> DJones: but how do you read a physical book?
<DJones> I would put the light on if it was dark, but as the time I'm reading, my wife is normally asleep, I don't want to do that
<bigcalm> So get the case with the light (it's only on when you want it to be)
<DJones> The case is probably the only way round it
<Myrtti> got to love Russell Howard
<Myrtti> I'm laughing my head off
<bigcalm> Myrtti: isn't he a darling?
<Myrtti> AHHAHHAHAH Dear Jim, would you please fix it so that I'd look less like Harry Potter
<Myrtti> just killin'
<Myrtti> oh lorrrdddie
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Evening
<_hux_> bigcalm I'm confused I thought this was #ubuntu-uk
<_hux_> it's afternoon
<bigcalm> _hux_: ?
<bigcalm> I'm messing with davmor2's head
<bigcalm> Somebody has to
<oimon> bonjour everybod
<_hux_> and mine. I just got off night shift lol
<_hux_> or bonsoir
<oimon> i notice fedora has got to the stage of using an automatix style script..
<oimon> and i read that gnome-shell will imminently run even on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests, hence fallback mode obsolete?
<pancro> checking now
<oimon> "gnome shell for everyone" http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158976.html
 * BigRedS wonders who it's for at the minute
<BigRedS> Oh, I see
<oimon> heard BigRedS metioned on uupc and suddenly realises he's been reading BigRedS wrongly
<BigRedS> Hm?
<BigRedS> How have you been reading it?
<oimon> always read it as big reds, rather than big red S
<BigRedS> Oh. and uupc not uucp. That makes more sense.
<oimon> that's the tab completion big-tab...doh..bigr-tab
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> Oh, you're listening to the computers-in-education episode?
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to bloggify my opinions on that, because I seem to disagree with everybody
<oimon> what's ur opinion, or do you want to save it?
<oimon> my clever nephew hates ICT and he should really be having computing lessons instead that inspire him to do more than minecraft. the stuff they cover in ICT should be shoved into 2 weeks of lessons as part of PSE (personal social education) or general studies
<Myrtti> ooer
<Myrtti> I thought Finland was having it tough by the court making a decision that an ISP should block PirateBay
<Myrtti> but it turns out that BT was ordered the same in UK, and they're going to comply like sheep, unlike the Finnish ISP is
<oimon> i did comp sci GCSE and although it referred to outdated stuff such as card readers etc, at least it covered some fundamentals (generational backups etc). and i wrote a big project in Basic that was pretty decent.
<oimon> that was the only thing that came close to the CS project i did at uni, which we had absolutely no training on writing the project up or even programming it
<jacobw> when did you do the CS GCSE oimon ?
<BigRedS> oimon: I think IT should be in the curriculum, just not how it is now
<BigRedS> maybe I need to write that blog post :)
<oimon> 1990-91
<BigRedS> Myrtti: BT protested quite strongly, but law's law
<diplo> Didn't even have PC's at my school then oimon  :P
<oimon> i had an archimedes
<BigRedS> oimon: my big disagreement is that everyone seems to think that replacing MS Office with $IDE and $programmingLanguage is a solution
<DJones> When did computer science/studies first get exams in school?
<Myrtti> BigRedS: righto
<oimon> btw i saw some guy studying for some city & guilds diploma the other day, and his study notes showed floppy drives and DOS stuff. it was ancient
<oimon> DJones: i suspect when GCSEs came along
<BigRedS> Myrtti: Aruably they only protested out of laziness, but they didn't want to implement the ban and, IIRC, said that this cleanfeed thing is trivial to circumvent
<jacobw> i saw an archimedes in 1999
<BigRedS> but I think that this way to get to newzbin you have to actively use somethign to circumvent teh restriction, so any succesful visitors know they're doing somethign they shouldn't
<oimon> i should have bought the acorn shares when they were 6p
<DJones> oimon: I thought it may have been about then, nothing existed when I was doing my 'O' levels in the early 80's
<oimon> would be a zillionaire by now
<tubadaz> DJones: I did Computer Studies O-level in 1984 - well before GCSEs
<Myrtti> oh good
<oimon> tubadaz: what was the course like?
<Myrtti> for once I feel young
<Myrtti> carry on
<oimon> i was warned off computing a-level even if i wanted a CS degree
<jacobw> me too Myrtti
<tubadaz> oimon: very much book based - we had one BBC Micro which we had to share! :-O
<DJones> oimon: When I invent my time machine, I'll go back and invest a few thousands in microsoft, apple, facebook etc (Ah, who am I kidding, no I won't I'll just run bill gates & zuchenburg over)
<jacobw> i did a diploma in digital applications in 2006-7
<oimon> acorn & bbc made me the man i am today
<DJones> tubadaz: I left school in 82, the school computer was a ZX80
<tubadaz> At the time, I had a ZX81 and a Spectrum at home! :-D
<daubers> My "computing" GCSE involved writing spreadsheets
<jacobw> i eschewed dreamweaver and wrote my html code by hand with notepad
<DJones> May have been a zx81
<oimon> daubers: sounds more like ICT
<daubers> tubadaz: Spectrums rule :)
<daubers> jacobw: I got in trouble for doing that at school :(
<oimon> i'm still avoiding dreamweaver now
<tubadaz> daubers: :-D
<jacobw> daubers: i can imagine, "er.. but what's that doing to the computer?!" is what i was asked..
<daubers> jacobw: Thats the point I'd run netsend and say "It's better for the computer than this" <message spams on all the machines in the school>
<jacobw> daubers: haha, the sys admin of my school's network helpfully left a gui version of netsend on a few machines
<Myrtti> oy, Dreamweaver was ok, in comparison to other tools
<Myrtti> ... back in 2000
<daubers> I dunno why people keep saying "You don't need to know how a microwave works". If you want to make decent food in a microwave, a knowledge of how it works definatley helps
<oimon> like not microwaving metal and covering food
<oimon> and not microwaving your head
<daubers> Indeed, and stuff needing some kind of water type thing in it
<oimon> true
<oimon> it's just the rules are shorter
<daubers> Indeed
<oimon> riding a bike or a car needs to be learned
<jacobw> indeed, i've seen someone with a degree in philosophy of science put a fork in a microwave not knowing what would happen
<daubers> There's also a point that if you teach people what else these things can do, then surely people will use them for more things
<oimon> a law undergrad tried microwving baked bean tin ...without opening
<jacobw> oh goodness
<jacobw> ++law
<DJones> oimon: That says everything about lawyers
<oimon> he could only cook one thing the entire year
<DJones> I guess that wasn't beans :)
<oimon> no...after that it was roast chicken + buy a loaf of bread
<oimon> then leave chicken carcass on counter for someone else to tidy away
<jacobw> i was thinking about a cooking course yesterday
<oimon> my son made me casserole the other day.
 * AlanBell needs to do something about a chicken
<oimon> and cupcakes
<jacobw> whilst trying to dice a butternut squash
<oimon> he is nearly 2 :P
<jacobw> i need to learn knive skills and how to make curry base sauce and things like that
<oimon> women like those skills :)
<jacobw> oimon: is he an android?
<oimon> more of a tux
<jacobw> ha
<oimon> in my experience even just a few signature dishes, well cooked can really impress the opposite sex
 * jacobw was only thinking about improving his cooking skills
<jacobw> :D
<oimon> wow, that shard building is very nearly finished
<jacobw> shard building?
<oimon> some giant pointy building in london
<oimon> looks like only a few more floors need glazing
 * DJones wonders why they've named a building after a guy he was at school with
<oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shard_London_Bridge
<jacobw> i've just moved to london :)
<oimon> has a question to ask the room
<jacobw> no, chips aren't one of your five a day..
<DJones> But chocolate raisons are
<jacobw> lol
<daubers> unless they're deep fried
<oimon> i think i might struggle hiring a competent sysadmin so was considering hiring a CS (or similar) graduate on a lower salary who shows evidence of being a potentially good linux admin
<oimon> thoughts?
<oimon> due to hiring constraints i need to decide before i see the candidates :(
<diplo> I tried that oimon, had issues with a lot of people we had in just not caring about there job
<AlanBell> depends on the risk profile of the thing being admined
<diplo> Generilisation, but it was the norm, seems a new generation of people don't care
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<oimon> are there any fresh graduates in here who are looking for their break as a linux sysadmin?
<czajkowski> davmor2: poke
<diplo> Would love a new job, just a tad far away for me oimon :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: if you see Ursula give her a hug sounds like she needs it
<oimon> diplo: where aer you?
<bahja-ubuntu> hi
<AlanBell> oimon: feel free to mail a suitable message to the list about the position
<diplo> oimon, Nr Bath, so a long commute :/
<oimon> AlanBell: unfortunately i'm sort of doing this blind as i need to commit to the type of position before i start hiring. stupid public sector :(
<diplo> I really want to get back to sysadmin full time
<oimon> one of my friends commutes to london from bath
<diplo> But money needs to be worth while, guessing he earns a good wage ?
<bahja-ubuntu> hello all
<oimon> diplo: don't think so
<oimon> times are hard
<AlanBell> sure, but you can be fairly vauge about it, I don't want people posting job specs every week to the list, but a message saying you are hiring and asking people to contact you off list for a job spec would be fine
<diplo> yeah, also with my wife leaving me can't afford to earn less than I'm on now
<diplo> Wat sort of money is this job going to be offering ?
<bahja-ubuntu> SOME one help me how to de pxe
<diplo> bahja-ubuntu, just type what you are trying to acheive/having issues with
<oimon> diplo: PM'd
<bahja-ubuntu> i need to to boot  other computer in home using diskless technologie
<bahja-ubuntu> i'm using    ubuntu 11.10
<bahja-ubuntu> 3.0
<bahja-ubuntu> you now just litel  of peopel using gnu/linux in algeria
<bahja-ubuntu> diplo
<diplo> Ok, so where are you already.. have you attempted setting anything up at all yet ?
<bahja-ubuntu> see some tuto in youtube  but no metodic using in thos tuto
<bahja-ubuntu> like install dhcp3-server
<bahja-ubuntu> tftp
<bahja-ubuntu> what about you dipol where are you from
<diplo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Netboot
<diplo> UK, majority of people will be in here as this is the uk ubuntu channel
<diplo> We have a few strays from other countrys in here though :)
<sagaci> people who are in LoCos with a less-active community
<MooDoo> hi all
<diplo> hi MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<oimon> aww i thought they just loved brits
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19613/community-p-localized-iso-community-growth/ 7PM session
<AlanBell> if some folk could drop in on that it would be great, there is live audio and IRC to talk back to them
<AlanBell> I am probably not going to be able to make it
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is really weird... In Firefox when I type CTL+F for the search tool - instead I get a rather odd looking terminal appear bottom right of the desktop.
<popey> terminal or search box?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I get a terminal
<TheOpenSourcerer> I want the search tool that appears in the status bar
<TheOpenSourcerer> Using the FF menu it works but CTL+F opens this odd little terminal
<TheOpenSourcerer> Same in Chrome so it looks like a gnome thing rather than the app
<NET||abuse> howdy,, nearly end of friday, have a weird annoyance with thunderbird and the indicator, i have 3 gmail accounts each with dozens of labels i filter different email to, i don't want the messaging indicator to go blue and list out the new mail count for all of them (it actually truncates to about 7 or so) but just for selected important stuff.. 3 inboxes and just 2 of the many label'd folders in gmail i have
<NET||abuse> is there a wayt ot alter this behaviour?
<NET||abuse> set which folders get added the the messaging indicator new mail list
<NET||abuse> ?
<e33> hi
<e33> Discover the hciX location of the dongle, what mean dongle, is it the usb for bluetooth?
<MartijnVdS> check the mac address
<MartijnVdS> e33: Yes, dongle is the USB<->Bluetooth thing
<e33> i am not so familiar with linux system, but on window system, no need to put any dongle to use the bluetooth
<e33> i mean do i need to put a dongle to use bluetooth?
<e33> sorry guys for this stupid question
<daftykins> laptop or desktop PC?
<e33> laptop
<daftykins> laptops usually have bluetooth built in
<daftykins> open a terminal and type "lsusb" and "lspci" and look for something bluetooth related
<MartijnVdS> but to the software, it's the same: built-in and external bluetooth "look" the same for software
<e33> i didnt see any bluetooth word :)
<daftykins> e33: you could pastebin the output from those commands if you like, so we can look
<daftykins> do you know pastebin?
<MartijnVdS> e33: try "hcitool dev"
<MartijnVdS> e33: it shows all the bluetooth devices that have been detected
<e33> e33@e33-G560:~$ hcitool dev
<e33> Devices:
<e33> is it mean i dont have bluetooth built in on my pc?
<daubers>  would you not need to run that as root?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> you do need to run this one as root though
<e33> i will run it as a root
<daubers> Fair enough :) Some of those do, smoe dont (like lshw)
<MartijnVdS> e33: please paste the output on pastebin
<MartijnVdS> sudo rfkill list
<MartijnVdS> it should list all bluetooth and wifi devices (and other things with antennas) inside your laptop
<e33> sorry guys for the input cause it will cover the screen
<e33> e33@e33-G560:~$ sudo rfkill list
<e33> [sudo] password for e33:
<e33> 0: phy0: Wireless LAN
<e33> 	Soft blocked: yes
<e33> 	Hard blocked: yes
<e33> 1: ideapad_wlan: Wireless LAN
<e33> 	Soft blocked: yes
<e33> 	Hard blocked: no
<e33> 2: ideapad_bluetooth: Bluetooth
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin | e33
<e33> 	Soft blocked: no
<e33> 	Hard blocked: no
<lubotu3`> e33: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<e33> e33@e33-G560:~$
<daftykins> that's probly why i mentioned pastebin Â¬_Â¬
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: and I..
<e33> i see
<e33> sorry guys
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> np
<daftykins> lenovo ideapad eh, is it that shiny new 13"?
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it looks like the bluetooth is recognised and not blocked
<e33> it is lenovo 560
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> e33:
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i am very pleased for him ;)
<daftykins> (or her)
<daftykins> cor, i got quite a rude call from a desperate-to-get-commision Dell rep today, from India
<daftykins> i had contacted them for a quote for a client, then been hounded by email twice and now a call
<daftykins> they really are desperate
<MartijnVdS> A rude one? Report to his boss :)
<daftykins> well he just rooted through records to find my number then called me up without solicitation
<daftykins> and wanted to know how soon i might be ordering ;)
<MartijnVdS> LIEK, NEVAR!!!!11!12
<daftykins> the funny thing is, in the process of asking for one quote i've already had dealings with 11 different guys!
<MartijnVdS> *cough*
<daftykins> terrible cold you've got there MartijnVdS :>
<e33> so gentlemen :)
 * MartijnVdS takes off every zig
 * daubers goes home
<bigcalm> Is it possible to change the sent date on emails in an IMAP folder?
<daftykins> why do i detect shenanigans? :D
<gord> why yes i agree, my shenanigan detector is waaay of the scale
<bigcalm> A couple of years ago, a server of ours thought that it was in 2015. A few emails that were then sent from trac have the erroneous date. Using the 'All Mail' view in Thunderbird is not quite right with these emails in the wrong place
<MattJ> It's not impossible to change the dates, just don't ask me how from a user perspective
<bigcalm> It's a google apps address sadly
<bigcalm> So I doubt I have real control of it
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you can use IMAP to fix it -- download the mails to an mbox, fix that, delete from IMAP, re-upload the mbox
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: mutt should be able to do it
<mgdm> bigcalm: if you have access to the IMAP server, probably - you could edit the mailbox directly >:)
<mgdm> (if it's Maildir or mbox)
<bigcalm> Humm, ok. I will look into it eventually :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's Gmail
<mgdm> ah
<mgdm> didn't spot that
<bigcalm> They are all responses to a closed ticket. Tempted to delete the emails. But I hate deleting anything
<bigcalm> There we go :S
 * bigcalm wants http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sor8_lHWHkc
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: part of some kind of indie bundle?
<bigcalm> I guess it might be
<bigcalm> Don't think it's released yet (that game)
<gord> huh... those guys don't have much imagination http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QLp7q18iZk
<MartijnVdS> "Look we wrote a physics engine"
<jacobw2> whoops
<bigcalm> You didn't meant to come here?
<mgdm> not with that cloak :P
<bigcalm> Are you defecting from Fedora?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i've a feeling peeps are defecting *to* Fedora ;)
<bigcalm> I say use what works for you
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> Unity is my motivating reason
<ali1234> doesn't fedora default to gnome-shell?
<ali1234> isn't that *even worse*
<MattJ> I don't get why someone would switch distro based on the default DE, but... I guess I'm me
<mgdm> I prefer it to Unity, but it's a close-run thing
<ali1234> MattJ: compare kubuntu to opensuse to see why
<MattJ> I'm not a KDE person :)
<ali1234> if you want a particular DE you will get significantly better results by picking a distro that uses it by default
<daftykins> well let's consider that not *everyone* knows nor is confident on how to change DE
<MattJ> daftykins, a good point... but... you? :)
<daftykins> ah the above was just a thought of mine really
<daftykins> i don't actually use any Ubuntus newer than Lucid right now
<daftykins> i've only had the odd fiddle in a VM
<MattJ> I suspect the majority (not all) people who are not capable of changing DE in Ubuntu probably aren't going to be too bothered by Unity
<ali1234> it has nothing to do with technical ability
<daftykins> well, i actually said people need to know about it, rather than their technical ability
<MattJ> I agree it's not just technical ability, but I'd say it's certainly related
<ali1234> if anything it is down to the technical ability of the people creating the packages
 * MartijnVdS had to explain ccsm settings (to "fix" unity) to one of our sysadmins today.
<daftykins> because Joe Bloggs walking up to a particular distro doesn't necessarily know it's just a component rather than something fixed
<MartijnVdS> It's not obvious
<ali1234> KDE is more than just a component
<ali1234> KDE on opensuse operates totally differently to KDE on ubuntu
<daftykins> i never referred to KDE personally
<daftykins> nor opensuse
<ali1234> the same is true of gnome-shell
<daftykins> but yeah
<ali1234> with fedora
<jacobw> i defected from fedora with maverick
<daftykins> jeez, i'm getting close to wanting to never say anything in here again, it gets obsessed over for far too long =|
<jacobw> but anyhow, i won't be pressing ctrl+z in my screen session again anytime soon :|
<MattJ> daftykins, I know how you feel :)
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> you are basically making the same mistake that everyone involved in ubuntu has been making for the past 12 months
<ali1234> "if only we explained it better, people would like it"
<daftykins> me?
<ali1234> yes, you
<daftykins> i'd be all willing to accept what you're saying immediately, if i had thought it through that far
<daftykins> but really, the extent of my comment was "user sees new thing, doesn't like, tries option B"
<hamitron> "anyone who doesn't agree needs leducating"
<daftykins> lmao
<hamitron> educating*
<ali1234> you are asserting that the reason people switch to another distro is because they don't know they can have that other distro's DE installed on ubuntu
<daftykins> hamitron: that was really clever actually, because it's like that person is being "led" through said education :D
<bigcalm> If people are complaining about lack of usability, then something needs to be about the product. Not just teach people how to use it how they think it's meant to be used.
<ali1234> this isn't true. if you know about other distros and DEs the chances are you understand enough to know they can be installed on ubuntu
<ali1234> the problem is that all other DEs on ubuntu get an insignificant amount of resources allocated to them in comparison with unity
<daftykins> ali1234: *obviously* (to me alone, granted) i don't think that's the case in an even quantifiable percent of cases. not everything i say is deadly serious - in fact often practically nothing is
<ali1234> as a result, they don't work well compared to the same DE on pretty much any other distro
<ali1234> quite often changes made specifically for unity break the other DEs
<daftykins> yeah that's all obvious to me
<daftykins> and of course we know that, but again i'm not talking about us :S
<hamitron> tbh, no distro can do everything... it has to have a target and aim towards just and only that
<ali1234> hamitron: i agree
<daftykins> yeah
<ali1234> and since i prefer unity to the other two anyway that's why i still use ubuntu
<ali1234> but if i wanted to switch to KDE i would NOT install kubuntu
<daftykins> anyway for the love of tux, please try and implement a mental filter that doesn't feel it necessary to jump all over the slightest of comments
<ali1234> daftykins: you made a rather large generalization
<daftykins> which, to my mind, was clearly not serious
<daftykins> inferred by the very first comments' smiley
<ali1234> well if you want to make frivolous comments please make them about yourself :)
<daftykins> sigh
<daftykins> what you've just done is exactly what's wrong with the community
<MattJ> File a bug report
<jacobw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-l-PiVWNY
<daftykins> judging by how long it took to resolve the first i posted, i'm not sure it's worth it ;)
 * hamitron hasn't even tried Unity yet
<daftykins> jacobw: crikey, must say i'm tempted to agree with the comments there that that can be quite damaging
<jacobw> daftykins: it could well be
<hamitron> is it worth a download?
<jacobw> hamitron: yes
<hamitron> downloading
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> jacobw, storing a usb wire? :|
<jacobw> its clever
<hamitron> I guess
<hamitron> I just plug all cables in, and throw the excess behind the desk.... then leave till I change everything
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> where's the fun in that!
<hamitron> I get all the "fun" when untangling them all ;)
<daftykins> lmao
<hamitron> I also suspect doing that to a cable lots, will make it look shabby very quick
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> hmph
<daftykins> aka when neighbourhood cats start disappearing around hamitron's place
<hamitron> cats? :|
<daftykins> yes
<daftykins> frustration of cable untying leads to cat death
<jacobw> hehe
<hamitron> :))
<daftykins> sorry, i suppose i am a tad cryptic sometimes
<daftykins> that is, when i'm not making sweeping generalisations
<daftykins> *whistle*
<hamitron> lucky for the kittens, I am too lazy to change setup often
<hamitron> haha
<daftykins> right, i fed the army (3 cats and 1 dog) so now it's time to feed me \o/
 * hamitron is just tired
<daftykins> it's the face you make when you look behind the desk though
<jacobw> do you feed them first so they don't bother you while your feeding yourself?
<daftykins> http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/075/873/original/Raisins_Face.jpg
<daftykins> jacobw: err just my approach to chores really, i'm home alone this weekend so i get things done by making myself 'earn' things :)
<daftykins> plus i find i can enjoy things more once the daily tedium is out of the way
<Azelphur> my Â£15 scanner off fleabay seems to work :D
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<hamitron> Azelphur, how many keys does your keyboard have?
<daftykins> whoa whoa whoa... Azelphur in functional-computering shocker!
<daftykins> stop the press!
<daftykins> :)
<MartijnVdS> News at 11
<Myrtti> I wish I could get our wifi-connectable scanner to work over wifi in Ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu2unhqHhk1qmozq4o1_500.jpg
<Myrtti> I know it works like a charm if I connect to the machine with USB but that's so passe
<Azelphur> hamitron: my G19? A standard 102(?) key keyboard with 12 G-Keys, 4 M-Keys, an extra D-Pad, Menu, Ok, Back, Settings, LCD On/Off. It also has media keys (play, stop, back, forward, mute and a volume wheel)
<Azelphur> hamitron: my G13 has 22 G-Keys, an anologue joystick, 2 shoulder buttons, 4 M-Keys, 5 LCD keys and an LCD On/Off button
<hamitron> Azelphur, I mean the midi/usb musical keyboard/piano
<Azelphur> ohhh
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> 61
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
<hamitron> you find that is enough for when using 2 hands?
<daftykins> Myrtti: i managed to avoid that by getting a lovely multi-function printer with a scanner that pushes the resulting image/PDF to SAMBA shares \o/
<alexamway> Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð²ÐµÑ.
<Myrtti> daftykins: ooer
<Myrtti> nice
<alexamway> Ð»ÑÐ´Ð¸ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ÑÐºÐ°Ð¶Ð¸ÑÐµ ÐºÐ°Ðº Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¸Ð¹ ÐºÐ°Ð½Ð°Ð» Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ ÑÐ±ÑÐ½ÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¿Ð°ÑÑÑ ?
<DJones> !ru | alexamway
<lubotu3`> alexamway: ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<alexamway> ok. senkyu
<jacobw> ukrainian
<daftykins> jacobw: bless you
<jacobw> ;)
<DJones> alexamway: You're welcome
<alexamway> (02:53:07) Cannot send to channel
<alexamway> ÑÐ°Ð¼ ÑÐ°ÐºÐ°Ñ ÑÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð²ÑÐ»ÐµÐ·Ð»Ð°.... ÑÐ¾ Ñ ÑÐ°ÑÐ¾Ð¼ ?
<alexamway> ssory. i"am noo speak eng\uk
<daftykins> alexamway: you cannot speak in #ubuntu-ru ? maybe you must register
<daftykins> !register
<lubotu3`> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<alexamway> !register
<lubotu3`> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<alexamway> Ð½ÐµÐ·Ð½Ð°Ñ ÑÑÐ¾ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ
<alexamway> :(
<daftykins> my dog just gave me a look as though the fireworks outside are my doing and mark the end of the world
<jacobw> ÐÐ¸Ðº Ð½Ð° IRC-ÑÐµÑÐ²ÐµÑÐµ ÑÐµÐ³Ð¸ÑÑÑÐ¸ÑÑÐµÑÑÑ ÑÐ°Ðº: /msg nickserv register <password> <e-mail> .  ÐÐ¾Ð´ÑÐ¾Ð±Ð½ÐµÐµ Ð¿ÑÐ¾ ÑÐµÐ³Ð¸ÑÑÑÐ°ÑÐ¸Ñ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration >> ÐÐ°Ð»Ð¸Ð´Ð¸ÑÑÐ¹ÑÐµ Ð½Ð¸Ðº  Ð¿Ð¾ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑÐµ! <<
<jacobw> alexamway
<alexamway> ÑÑÐ¾ ?
<ali1234> where'd you get that translation?
<jacobw> ali1234: #ubuntu-ru
<ali1234> of course :)
<ali1234> 'Ð½ÐµÐ·Ð½Ð°Ñ' is the only russian word i know
<jacobw> i know no Russian words
<ali1234> it means 'don't know'/'don't understand'
<DJones> Heh, the google translate of that is quite odd
 * jacobw will remember that word
<hamitron> "I'm sorry, but I'm too dumb to understand"
<ali1234> yeah. from 5 years of russian lessons that is all i remember
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> i studied german for a year at school, the only thing i remeber is what the classroom looked like :(
<hamitron> not even the teacher? ;)
<jacobw> aside from guten morgen/tag danke/bitte and ich habe meine breiftasche verloren
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> that's not bad
<daftykins> i did about 6 years of German, forgot all rules of grammar practically but i can still remember tonnes of words
<daftykins> swap brieftasche for regenschirm (umbrella) and you've got yourself a currently relevant statement! :D
<jacobw> haha
<daftykins> i got PROPERLY wee'd on today riding into town
<daftykins> oh my lawd
<daftykins> i was cycling with one eye open as my eyebrows are distinctly fail-brows
<jacobw> oh dear
<daftykins> yep it came down that heavily
<jacobw> i saw a man do an emergency stop on a bicycle today and fly over the handbars
<daftykins> trust me, a welcome sight is most definitely not speeding cars in the rain down narrow Guernsey roads through one eye :D
<daftykins> :O erk
<daftykins> what was he avoiding?
<jacobw> er, he was cycling along the pavement about to go straitover a side road when he saw a car coming out the side road
<hamitron> hope he hurt himself
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> obviously, he shouldn't have been cycling on the pavement
<hamitron> ouuu, chocolate Santas
<hamitron> :)
<mattt> happy friday everyone
<AlanBell> looks like they are going to drop mono from the desktop CD
<AlanBell> moving from Banshee back to Rhythmbox
<BigRedS> Whoo!
<BigRedS> I've nothing against mono, but I much prefer Rhythmbox to Banshee
<BigRedS> But also my prediction of something surprising with every upgrade *still* holds true :(
<jacobw> odd
<jacobw> is anyone watching derren brown on c4?
<mattt> nah, was watching the rugby
<jacobw> its quite special
<alexcockell> Hi all..
<alexcockell> Hi drussell..
<alexcockell> Was meaning to ask any of you here.. who else is running on NVidia-based netbooks and having hassles with the latest iPlayer playout client?
<alexcockell> As in - version 3 of the Embedded Media Client basically won'ty work with Flash 11 - due to relying so much on Stage 3D.. which Adobe ripped out of the Linux Flash build..
<gord> alexcockell, hey, no idea. but you might want to ask at a more high bandwidth time, or on the email mailing list - midnight on a friday really isn't the best time to get support in a uk irc channel ;)
<alexcockell> Yeah - I know.. but was hoping to just flag it...
<alexcockell> Basically the Beeb have locked out versions of Flash older than 10.1....
<alexcockell> ... but Adobe ripped out Stage Video accel from Flash 11...
<alexcockell> So - you run a netbook with an ION 1 chip in... iPlayer won't run worth anything..
<hamitron> get_iplayer?
<alexcockell> That's working around the problem..
<alexcockell> Not, say, packaging up Flash 10.3 so users have a 100% legit backout option
<alexcockell> My R61i will happily run iPlayer - as it's based on Intel X3100 - CPU handles the lot..
<alexcockell> ... but an Atom N270 doesn't have the grunt..
<ali1234> what's a playout client?
<alexcockell> BBC iPlayer Embedded Media Player v3.
<alexcockell> The Flash client on the website - you know - when you browse to the page to play the content.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-05
<hamitron> all too slow for me :/
<alexcockell> if you go, say, to bbc.co.uk/heritage - all the clips there still run through Embedded Media Client v2... the one that worked.
<ali1234> so not the installed one then?
<alexcockell> The Beeb are still consolidating their content to the new player...
<alexcockell> Basically - they've locked out casual users on NVidia Ion 1-based low-power machiens.. who would nto know about get_iplayer or would be scared off using it.
<alexcockell> Basically - up to about 3 weeks ago, iPlayer behaved.  And the new version of Flash coped with the old client..
<alexcockell> But with the new embedded player - suddenly Ion-based kit is locked out.
<alexcockell> Theree's also a load of other bugs..
<alexcockell> MOrning all..
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> And this is why you don't buy nvidia?
<marxjohnson> morning all
<jacobw> morning marxjohnson et al
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> morning brobostigon
<jacobw> is anyone going to mozilla festival?
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<Sysunix> Hi all
<Sysunix> Do any of you ever used the software Keylogger on ubuntu ?
<alexcockell> Morning all..
<alexcockell> Anyone else found if they're on an Ion 1-based netbook that iPlayer is not very reliable under Flash 11?
<jacobw> i find that flash unreliable under linux in general
<penguin42> yeuch, the new reader is terrible
<alexcockell> jacobw - Yeah - mostly due to Adobe's shite coding.
<alexcockell> penguin42 - is that Adobe reader?  Or Flash?
<penguin42> sorry, google
<alexcockell> Ah.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ^ you'll like that. Too bad daubers isn't online
<^hyperbole^_> #cloudstack
<issyl0> AlanBell: How's Bonfire Night looking for you?  Do you know of any decent firework displays around?
<AlanBell> I am not at home, down in Pool, Dorset
<AlanBell> I think christel was thinking of going to Farnham
<AlanBell> possibly theopensourcerer too
<alexcockell> Not bothering really... been fighting with iPlayer and NVIDIA...
<alexcockell> Spent most of the day raising one honking complaint to the beeb..
<MartijnVdS> wrong party
<MartijnVdS> it's Adobe's fault for making shitty software
<alexcockell> Yeah - I know... just had to rant
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: and it's bbc's fault for using it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's a reasonable option for streaming video
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: sure there are better options _now_
<alexcockell> And then when Adobe say "Duh, desktop Linux isn't being used - let's withdraw AIR"
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I don't think so, I used to watch TV via shoutcast all the time before flash was big
<Azelphur> and it didn't suck.
<alexcockell> Yeah - just very annoying they decided to rely on overlay logic to present transport info - rather than using the panel underneath
<alexcockell> Means you have to mouseover to see where you are int he programme...
<penguin42> is one of the bot minders around?
<alexcockell> ... and guess what?  As Adobe ripped out Stage Video... leaving VDPAU to decode only... video freezes, audio continues...
<alexcockell> ... if on an Atom/ION combo...
<alexcockell> But on the old X3100 GOU in my R61 - all OK..
<MartijnVdS> So.. never buy nvidia :)
<alexcockell> But it DID behave when I dropped Â£400 on my netbook from LE
<alexcockell> Behaved right up until the Beeb changed the media client on iPlayer about a week or so ago..
<alexcockell> And it's caused a LOT of shouting...
<alexcockell> Of course - all the testing was obviously done on the Flash 11 beta... and then Adobe's gold release dumps experimental Stage Video in Linux - but left it in for Windows and Mac
<alexcockell> Spent a man-day on a long complaint which I've CC'd to DigitalSpy and their open-mic thread on their Internet blog...
<alexcockell> Netbook isn't much more than 18 months old...
<alexcockell> The galling thing is - Youtube behaves better - actually *does* graceful fallback
<alexcockell> Just that Atoms don't have the grunt - and *require* NVIDIA...
<alexcockell> Or - the new player maxes out an Atom - whereas it runs at about 50% of both cores on a Core Duo...
<ali1234> i don't see how it is nvidia's fault
<alexcockell> It isn;t... just the interaction - and the fact that Adobe didn't leave the code there...
<ali1234> stage video is a beta function?
<alexcockell> It was... but then the Beeb decide to use stage video to present the transport logic in overlay...
<alexcockell> And the Windows/Mac mob were crying for it...
<ali1234> why are they using beta functions with no fallback?
<alexcockell> But apparently there'a bit of dodgy coding there - even in ActionScript or whatever it is Flash uses..
<alexcockell> Pardon me for expressing myself like this - but fuck knows
<alexcockell> When playing audio - it's only using a load average of about 1.8
<alexcockell> ... on a 1.6GHz Atom
<ali1234> audio is not exactly difficult to decode
<alexcockell> Exactly.
<penguin42> you sometimes get weird cases
<penguin42> like if the sound card insists on not switching to the same sample rate as the sample rate you wanted to use
<penguin42> and you get conversions and stuff
<alexcockell> It's the rendering where they got it wrong - via VDPAU, the GPU's decoding the H264 stream..
<penguin42> I've also seen the kernel get very confused and spend all the CPU with PA crashing and restarting with one particular sound card
<ali1234> yes well we all know how well adobe engineers understand VDPAU
<MartijnVdS> alexcockell: that's what the GPU is for..
<alexcockell> I know..
<MartijnVdS> but they should just use VA-API
<MartijnVdS> so they support non-nvidia as well
<alexcockell> You know - there IS one way the Beeb could support the lower-spec kit running Ubuntu and similar... allow their Totem plugin access to the high-def iplayer streeams
<alexcockell> until Adobe get their act together
<ali1234> i've never seen that totem plugin work
<ali1234> it always just hangs when i try to use it
<alexcockell> *facepalm*
<alexcockell> And by doing this - they only piss off their early adopters etc...
<ali1234> early adopters of iplayer?
<alexcockell> OK - maybe I meant tech-savvy people.. the ones who know what's going on..
<ali1234> i just tried a stage 3d demo and it seems to work
<ali1234> what part did they remove?
<Myrtti> totem-plugin?
<Myrtti> have I missed out on something
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: totem BBC plugin
<alexcockell> It's more the overlaying bit...
<MartijnVdS> it's not in oneiric
<Myrtti> AW DAMNIT
<Myrtti> I was already looking for it :-(
<MartijnVdS> it might be in -plugins-extra
<MartijnVdS> totem-plugins-extra*
<MartijnVdS>     * Stream BBC programs
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ^
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: sorry for the confusion ;)
 * Myrtti rubs her hands together
<Myrtti> eeeexcellent
 * AlanBell breaks unity3d :(
<MartijnVdS> "Myrtti Burns"
<AlanBell> never had any problems with the stability of compiz until unity came along
<alexcockell> TOTP 1976 is listed under BBC1 - rather than BBC4...
<alexcockell> ARGH!  They let you see the list of programmes - but no streaming!
<alexcockell> Thanks to those STUPID decisions they made re DRM...
<Myrtti> I can't even see the list of programmes, only the subject areas
<Myrtti> boo.
<mattt> afternoon all
<alexcockell> Myrtti - try the twisties-  what version of Ubuntu are you running?
<Myrtti> alexcockell: 11.10
<jacobw> evening
<czajkowski> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/album/426006  UDS-P photos are up
<gord> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/2618871/in/album/426006 - rare sighting of the popey-shark - breaching in the wild
<penguin42> eep scary
<penguin42> . --------~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *
 * jacobw nods
<MartijnVdS> morse code?
<penguin42> that's a rocket!
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> it's that night again
 * jacobw rotates his screen
 * penguin42 doesn't seem to be able to see any from the park across the road yet
<jacobw> its odd not having any animals to look after this firework night
<MartijnVdS> Ah, the traditional V for Vendetta on TV tonight :)
<stevepdp> MartijnVdS, what channel?
<MartijnVdS> stevepdp: BBC2 22:45
<stevepdp> gdgd, doesn't conflict with Merlin :-)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: enjoying our FreeSat eh? ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I also have the bluray but yes :)
<jacobw> Traditional?
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> I'd say it's becoming a tradition
<MartijnVdS> hm, this seems to be the first time it's been broadcast on Nov 5
<MartijnVdS> Strange BBC is strange
<SuprEngr> o/
<SuprEngr> ..& a phhhschwoooooooos.... bang to you all
<MartijnVdS> & to you
<SuprEngr> ;)
<jacobw> hi SuprEngr
<SuprEngr> hi MartijnVdS, hi jacobw  - got your virtual phhhschwoooooooos.... bangs ready for Guy Fawkes?
<alexcockell> Had enoughof the real ones detonating near me for DIwali AND firework night..
<SuprEngr> alexcockell, I was in Handsworth [working] on Diwali... loud!
<SuprEngr> [but as to festival of lights... nothing
<alexcockell> Yeah - somehow they manage to get hold of professtional fireworks - and light then in stamp-sized gardens..
<alexcockell> ITV - loads of hopelesses massacring tracks...
<SuprEngr> alexcockell, +1
<jacobw> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'. Stop.
<alexcockell> They're actually playing out Trammps, S-Express etc as the intro.. or do I go to Radio 2 whwere they;'re playing out 70s stuff?
<SuprEngr> jacobw, I'm impressed - you saw my post to mail list?
<jacobw> SuprEngr: no
<SuprEngr> jacobw, whine re seahorse-plugins... it ends up with that msg
<SuprEngr> ..so +1 to your vote
<jacobw> i'm not currently subscribed to the mailing list
<SuprEngr> ["it" being attempts to do what I needed]
<SuprEngr> jacobw, shame on you ;)
<alexcockell> I know it'soff-topic.. but Oh Dear God.... Act one out of the blocks has ruined both Abba and Dead Or Alive...
<jacobw> i need to sort out the postfix server on my domain for virtual users and mailboxes so i can subscribe to lists with lists@jacobw.me
<SuprEngr> ooo... Men In Black on Ch5  :)
<jacobw> [uknot] is high volume
<SuprEngr> muuuuch betta
<jacobw> i love that film :)
<alexcockell> I take it none of us are into going out on a cold night... MUCH nicer to have a warm netbook...
<SuprEngr> ok - break in movie - anyone know of replacement for seahorse-plugins in 11.10?
<SuprEngr> [netbook recharging... nice & warm}
<SuprEngr> oh to be a recharging battery pack plugged in and powered... cozy ;)
<jacobw> SuprEngr: what does seahorse-plugins do that seahorse doesn't?
<SuprEngr> adda an "encypt" optoin to right click in Nautilus
<SuprEngr> ...should also add a "decrypt"
<SuprEngr> ...but decrypt disappeared mid 11.04... still working that one out !
<jacobw> I see, nautilus integration :)
<SuprEngr> precisely...
<SuprEngr> ...[but now snafu'd in 11.10
<jacobw> how annoying
<alexcockell> I think I read something about that - they could have said "it was difficult for the user to set up... so we ripped it out"
<alexcockell> sorry - "may
<alexcockell> Oh - if anyone is watching the carcrash on ITV1 - one act is about to wreck a Shalamar track...
<SuprEngr> alexcockell, did you also read where package could be got?
<jacobw> asymetric encryption does confuse people
<alexcockell> Nah - saw it in passing.
<SuprEngr> p.s "carcrash" - not politically good atm
<SuprEngr> m5 cough
<alexcockell> Yeah - but how else do you describe acts ruining old classic tracks?
<alexcockell> How else do you describe X Factor?
<jacobw> you can't choose to watch X Factor and then complain
<SuprEngr> actually  - o now you put that way... ;)
<alexcockell> Umm - isn't it a musical equivalent of leaving Sandygate then rubbernecking?  And giving Sky News some footage?
 * SuprEngr has a sneaky feeling it's just the 3 of us here atm... guess all the others are going phhhschwoooooooos.... bang
<alexcockell> Especially when they wreck old Shalamar?
<alexcockell> Or, if you're near families celebrating Diwali or Eid - BANG
<alexcockell> or more CRRRUMP
<SuprEngr> ..or vee cud control ze channel & move on to vorld domination... ya ha ha ha ha ha
<SuprEngr> Eid, Diwali, /Guy Fawkes night... what hope for the lower atmosphere tonight!
<jacobw> when is V on tonight?
<SuprEngr> jacobw, 'V'... as in the sci-fi series?  is it on somewhere?
<jacobw> MartijnVdS said 'V for Vendetta' was on BBC tonight
<SuprEngr> doh!
<jacobw> !bbc
<jacobw> luobotu needs to be able to tell us what's on TV
<jacobw> ah, max payne is on c4 at 9
<ali1234> bbc2 10.45
<SuprEngr> o/ ali1234
<SuprEngr> but Dave has better
 * MartijnVdS baked someting really yummy & breadish
<SuprEngr> bread & butter pud?
<SuprEngr> ...or toast
<MartijnVdS> SuprEngr: no it's bread but with some sugar and olive oil added
<MartijnVdS> the dough was very sticky and wet
<SuprEngr> yum
<MartijnVdS> but the bread is nice and soft and tastes REALLY good
 * SuprEngr hides in jealousy
<MartijnVdS> aww
<shauno> ugh.  60% packet loss, *again*.  I really can't remember why I bother paying these idiots
<mattt> xfactor, worst show ever.
<brobostigon> agreed mattt, it sucks.
<mattt> brobostigon: serious waste of time watching that nonsense
<brobostigon> mattt: especially reminds me of those kind of itv progs, with quiz questions, that you can answer with an IQ of 1, and are no challange, nor informational, and blatently trashy populerist.
<mattt> and then there's university challenge, which makes me feel like an idiot.  :D
<brobostigon> mattt: but that is a good example of the right kind, of challenge. not idiocy.
<mattt> true
 * mattt is off to learn some python
<brobostigon> :)
 * SuprEngr thought this was an intelligent channel but smirks to think think peeps actually do watch refuse 
 * mattt raises an eyebrow at SuprEngr
#ubuntu-uk 2011-11-06
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Miia Ranta] Ubuntu 11.10 on an ExoPC/Wetab, or how I found some use for my tablet and learnt to hate on-screen keyboards - http://myrtti.fi/blog/2011/11/06/ubuntu-11-10-on-an-exopcwetab-or-how-i-found-some-use-for-my-tablet-and-learnt-to-hate-on-screen-keyboards/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Goodbye Orlando - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/11/goodbye-orlando/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 5 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/06/uds-p-day-5/
<spiritech> hello ubuntu-uk
<ball> Daviey: Does everybody need an invitation for #mythbuntu or did I offend someone?
<Azelphur> ball: think it's everyone, I can't either
<ball> Ah good.  I'd hate to think I'd done something bad without even realising it!
<ball> Azelphur: It seems to suddenly be #ubuntu-mythtv
<sammm> OMG I'm so bored!!!!!!1
<sammm> Does anyone else here like cute ickle bunny wabbits?
<ball> hello sammm
<sammm> ball: heyyyyy
<sammm> ball: Why are you awake so early/late?
<ball> sammm: It's 23:51 here.
<sammm> ball: WTF?
<sammm> ball: This is #ubuntu-uk
<sammm> UK being United Kingdom
<ball> sammm: I'm British.
<sammm> ball: WTF you have to be British to be here now?
<ball> I never said that.
<sammm> ball: You implied it
<ball> sammm: I am not responsible for your interpretation of my comments.
<ball> hello darael
<sammm> ball: Do you like cute ickle bunny rabbits?
<ball> sammm: I haven't eaten rabbit for many, many years.
<darael> Hello, ball.  How goes it?
<ball> darael: Not too bad thanks.
<sammm> ball: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? You don't eat cute bunnies.
<ball> Correct. I do not currently eat rabbit.
<sammm> ball: How would you like it if I ate your dog?
<ball> I daresay my daughter would object.
<AlanBell> morning all
<jacobw> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> Myrtti: have you tried the version of Onboard in -proposed?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: yes, with no visible difference
<Myrtti> perhaps I don't know what to look for
<Myrtti> and all in all I like Gnome-Shell a tiniest bit more than Unity, and I haven't a clue how to change the keyboards
<daubers> Morning
<jacobw> morning daubers :)
<daubers> So, should we run a meeting where we can discuss the UDS stuff that might effect us?
<daubers> Or how we as a loco can help with any targets/aims that were brought up at UDS?
<daubers> apparently not :)
<Myrtti> I'm trying to find a blogpost...
<daubers> Which one?
<Myrtti> daubers: this one: http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2011/11/01/loco-council-oneiric-cycle-review/ which baffled me
<Myrtti> I thought Ubuntu UK was already reapproved on Oneiric cycle
<Myrtti> right after OggCamp
<daubers> Myrtti: Yeah, that blog post is a covering of wha the loco team did as part of the oneiric cycle
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Myrtti> oh, right, misread
<daubers> We're now on the "perfect" cycle
<Myrtti> it does say Oneiric above the list...
<daubers> Yup :)
<Myrtti> and even in the title
<Myrtti> hohum. a Paracetamol and more tea
<Myrtti> headaches in the morning when you wake up would be so much more fun and justified if I had drunk anything stronger than milk yesterday
<daubers> Ick
<bigcalm> Mornin'
<daubers> o/
 * daubers tries to find how the bus stops get their data
<SuprEngr> daubers, at every stop the driver gets out and finds a phonebox.  driver then morse codes it in binary by tapping on the mouthpiece of the phone and the driver of the previous bus then paints the time on the next stop
<SuprEngr> o/
<bigcalm> Sounds reasonable to me
<daubers> SuprEngr: Rumour has it it's either just a big wifi network or wimax
<SuprEngr> ;)
<daubers> Meh, I'll leave the packet sniffer running and wait for a bus to go past]
<SuprEngr> [one of the drivers of every route has to be called Max for WhyMax to work effectively]
<SuprEngr> ..and don't ask why Max? [for recursive,see...]
<AlanBell> Myrtti: hmm, it should be visibly quite different, no title bar and transparent backbround
<Myrtti> AHHAHAHHAH someone has just made a funneh
<Myrtti> mentioned in the blogpost I'm having trouble right-clicking anything, and here they suggest I right-click the border of onBoard
<Myrtti> but I suppose they mean I do that after I've installed this hacky thing called twofing
<AlanBell> Dunno, I will look into it later
<daubers> I hate the smell of electric heaters that have been off for 8 months being turned on again
<Myrtti> I hate the smell of my bathroom cleaning products
<Myrtti> my toilet refreshener reminds me of the smell of my bathroom the last time I had a hangover
<Myrtti> and my bathroom cleaner is just too strong
<Myrtti> I don't know why I used the latter with this headache
<SuprEngr> Myrtti, dissolved soda crystals? no smell, just cleaning. rubber gloves recommended though.
<Myrtti> I think I'll just go buy a 2 liter canister of white vinegar instead and put it in a spray bottle
<Myrtti> that's what I usually use in UK
<SuprEngr> ...was going to suggest that but that smells [but some,  self included, find it a non-offensive]
<Myrtti> SuprEngr: it smells differently, which in my experience doesn't induce a headache for me
<SuprEngr> correct - hope head gets better soon
<Myrtti> I may end up tossing the toilet refreshener
<SuprEngr> [I'm glad I read that twice]
<Myrtti> hehe
<Myrtti> also, this whole discussion reminds me that it may be a good idea to have my eyes checked by a doctor sometime soon
<SuprEngr> wouldn't think eye probs would cause waking up with an ache, *but* eyes are precious, go check
<SuprEngr> also ask if waking up with low sugar... hmmm headache?
 * penguin42 yawns
<GentileBen> So, how do ya'll feel about Unity?
<penguin42> ah throwing a good loaded question in?
<GentileBen> Are you retarded? Go look up the definition of "loaded question".
<penguin42> oh I'm sorry
<mattt> :/
<jacobw> friends is so unrealistic
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: are*
<jacobw> ;)
<jacobw> enum friends {ross,rachel,chandler,joey};
<MartijnVdS> ah those :)
<jacobw> i've moved in to a place with sky tv
<SuprEngr> what? sharing with someone called Sky... dodgy!
<gord> does E4 still show friends on basically a 24 hour loop?
<gord> been a long time since i watched uk tv
<MartijnVdS> nah it has some "celebrity gossip" between episodes
<jacobw> i'm watching comedy central
<gord> E4 was the friends channel, then "Bill" or "Jim" or whatever it was, was the top gear channel
<jacobw> lol, 'Dave'
<MartijnVdS> gord: it's the Top Gear and QI channel, last time I checked
 * jacobw thinks all TV channels should have a familial name
<SuprEngr> jacobw, the royals already have one... it's called "One"
<jacobw> Haha
<MartijnVdS> ITV One amirite
<jacobw> i was reading about the queen on wikipedia yesterday
<jacobw> apparently until 1964 she appointed the leader of the conservative party
<SuprEngr> po.s Dave currently showing "Have I Got News..."
<SuprEngr> avec Angus Deaton!
<KrimZon> does she still appoint the presenter of HIGNFY?
<jacobw> i'm not sure :P
<jacobw> hi hamitron
<hamitron> hi :)
<penguin42> spot the odd one out: http://s0.2mdn.net/viewad/2652468/UK-Grocery-StockShop-300x250.png
<darael> penguin42: Bakers is the only one not intended for human consumption?
<penguin42> nod
<darael> I wasn't sure.  I thought there might have been something more subtle, that I'd missed.
<pangolin> I bet it's delicious though
<pangolin> :)
<jacobw> its probably ok for pangolins too :P
<penguin42> only imprecise ones though
<jacobw> of course
<DJones> Although dog biscuits are healthier for you than normal biscuits
 * penguin42 hates to know how DJones knows that
<darael> Well, dog biscuits have (legally) to be fit for human consumption.  After that it's just a case of happening to know the nutrition information of each.
<jacobw> i still won't be having them for breakfast
<darael> And the fact that the dog biscuits are intended as a major part of a diet, whereas normal biscuits are essentially treats (however much some may disagree) makes the comparison easy.
<DJones> penguin42: I've had dogs all my life, you get to know a lot about dog health & nutrition
<darael> jacobw: Sounds advisable.
<penguin42> darael: You mean I'm not supposed to base my entire nutrition around chocolate digestives?
<darael> penguin42: I couldn't possibly comment.  I might say something in favour of such a plan.
<mattt> what's a common python module for interacting with remote machines via ssh?
<AlanBell> !info python-libssh2
<lubotu3`> python-libssh2 (source: pylibssh2): Python binding for libssh2 library. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.0-1build1 (natty), package size 85 kB, installed size 732 kB
<mattt> nice 1, thanks alan
<andylockran> http://pastebin.com/kjZySZRk
<andylockran> yep - well done Virgin Media :(
<andylockran> How's things?
<andylockran> hmm
<andylockran> very quiet in here
<andylockran> else I'm talking to myself?
<MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
<andylockran> was that in response to me?
<andylockran> I've restarted my irssi client because I wasn't sure I was still connected..
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: well it's VERY quiet
<brobostigon> i am playing with android-x86, and am rather impressed on my eeepc, 2.3/gingerbread is working pretty quickly, and resource efficiently.
<brobostigon> shame connectbot isnt scaling properly, to the whole screen.
<andylockran> brobostigon: that's kewl
<andylockran> brobostigon: you blogging the instructions ?
<brobostigon> maybe. i am making notes.
<andylockran> that'd be useful
<andylockran> would like to put it on my eee 1000H
<andylockran> is it easy
<brobostigon> very, get the image from android-x86 site, dd or unetbootin to sd. and then boot from, simple.
<brobostigon> ok, bbl, going to the pub, :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://imgur.com/a/dT6K3
<MartijnVdS> popey: make any salt shaker into a dalek!
<SuprEngr> MartijnVdS, but it only takes an upturned bucket & a new born kid sat on top to make a Davros!
<popey> Evening all
<SuprEngr> o/
<AlanBell> evening popey and all
<coffeemaker> would people take a tumblr blog seriously?
<mgdm> whether or not to take a blog seriously depends on far much more than how it's hosted
<coffeemaker> good point
<penguin42> do not judge a blog by it's cover
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: or its style sheet
<coffeemaker> I've seen the term 'blog' used for when someone talks and no one is listening
<coffeemaker> or wants to listen
<MartijnVdS> isn't that "blag"? :P
<AlanBell> Laney: did you write something about your views on Banshee?
<Laney> where?
<Laney> i ranted a bit on some plus comments
<popey> AIUI it's not that Mono on ARM sucks.
<popey> It's that Mono on _Linux_ on ARM sucks
<ali1234> that's the reasoning?
<ali1234> what will replace tomboy?
<jacobw> vim + rsync :P
<popey> tomboy is still available in the repo
<popey> as is banshee
<popey> all we're talking about is default apps
<ali1234> what will replace it in the install?
<popey> nothing
<popey> same as gimp
<ali1234> so there will be no note taking app by default?
<popey> correct
<ali1234> presumably something will replace banshee
<popey> rhythmbox
<ali1234> and gbrainy should never have been included to start with
<jacobw> is that still included :s
<ali1234> it's not in oneiric
<popey> When pitti announced it at the end of UDS there was a cheer when he said they'd gained 30MB by not having Mono by default
<ali1234> heh
<popey> I don't know if the cheer was 'no mono' or '30MB'
<popey> I dont know pitti's position on it
<ali1234> i only use banshee because of convenience
<ali1234> i don't use tomboy or any other note taking thing
<ali1234> i have to say that banshee has been far buggier than rhythmbox ever was
<AlanBell> 21:19 < Laney> never mind, I'll be mailing about this anyway
<AlanBell> in -uds
<ali1234> i reported a reproducable crash bug 6 months ago. still not fixed.
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 6 in Launchpad itself ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6
<AlanBell> I just reported a bug in banshee
<AlanBell> bug 886908
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 886908 in banshee (Ubuntu) "progress jumps back when scrolling through audio file with mouse wheel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886908
<ali1234> i think the bug has been known long before i reported it too
<ali1234> ah yeah i get that too
<ali1234> can't seek in podcasts and stuff
<jacobw> i noticed that bug before
<AlanBell> I have not had it spin the processor full speed all cores for a bit, probably because I try not to use it
<AlanBell> I suspect that is a bug in mono
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<AlanBell> whenever a UDS session opened in Banshee by accident it was so frustrating trying to scroll to the end of it
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629541
<lubotu3`> Gnome bug 629541 in general "Crashes on changing track with an ObjectDisposedException from HyenaSqliteCommand.Execute" [Normal,New]
<jacobw> i've been finding banshee buggy since about version 0.12
<bigcalm> I don't think that directhex is happy at the removal of Banshee et al from the default install of 12.04 :(
<ali1234> when i was listening to the UDS live streams if it dropped out it would jump to playing the last song i listened to
<ali1234> and back wouldn't work
<ali1234> very annoying
<ali1234> had to use mplayer
<ali1234> the filesystem queue seems broken, i have a bunch of songs stuck in it
<ali1234> and it doesn't work properly with the library - if you open a song or album from the dash, you can't get to "other songs by this artist" easily enough
<directhex> bigcalm: it's not so much that. it's the shambolic way the decision was made
<ali1234> directhex: i don't remember you complaining about the shambolic decision to include it :)
<bigcalm> Hehe, meow
<ali1234> the session about about unity user testing was interesting
<ali1234> seems like nearly all the problems i have showed up in the tests
<AlanBell> directhex: what was shambolic?
<ali1234> banshee wasn't default in 10.04 was it?
<ali1234> so LTS users won't even see a change
<AlanBell> no, just 11.04
<AlanBell> indeed, LTS to LTS does appear to be part of the decision
<directhex> AlanBell: two reasons were cited for the dropping of banshee in the UDS logs - the only record that exists, since canonical were far too busy to spend a single minute liaising with upstream regarding their concerns or even to INVITE THE TEAM MEMBER THEY PAID TO BRING TO UDS INTO THE SESSION WHERE THEY WERE TO DISCUSS TOSSING OUT HIS WORK - were "it doesn't work on ARM" which is imaginary (it doesn't work on OMAP4, which is canonical's tar
<directhex> get ARM platform, but they have never bothered to help provide access to that platform to any Banshee developers, or fix their supposed bugs), and that it's not a GTK3 app (the GTK3 bug is blocking on a single bug which needs help from someone with GTK3 experience, bug canonical's techs are far too busy masturbating onto a biscuit to cooperate with upstream on that one either)
<directhex> sooooooooo shambolic.
<AlanBell> there was someone on the banshee team there who didn't turn up to the defaults session ?!?
<directhex> banshee devs have already given considerable (free) help to canonical to help banshee integration in ubuntu, and in return they've read about this on fucking boycott novell rather than via canonical's full-time upstream liaison gimps
<ali1234> what's up with OMAP4? got some more details?
<directhex> AlanBell: Laney was shipped to UDS, but never told that he should attend the session where stuff under his remit would be discussed
<AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19442/desktop-p-default-apps/
<AlanBell> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-p/2011-11-02-21-00-desktop-p-default-apps.1.ogg 10 minutes in
<ali1234> it says he attended?
<ali1234> where does that list come from anyway?
<AlanBell> Laney edited the pad after the session had ended
<AlanBell> and marked himself as attending the session
<ali1234> but there can be a list of attendees even before the pad is created
<AlanBell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-default-apps
<AlanBell> subscribers to the blueprint
<ali1234> regarding that pad, i wouldn't say banshee is unmaintained in ubuntu
<ali1234> the bugs very much are being forwarded to b.g.o
<ali1234> but then they just die
<directhex> the pad was heavily vandalised after the event.
<directhex> it's useless as a reference now
<AlanBell> directhex: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-p-desktop-p-default-apps/latest or http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-p-desktop-p-default-apps/rev.1545 as it was at the end of the session
<directhex> AlanBell: thanks, i didn't know you could view old revisions with etherpad
<Laney> I wasn't aware that subscribing to blueprints was a commitment to attend
<AlanBell> it isn't
<AlanBell> but that is how the field labled "attendees" is populated in summit
<AlanBell> and it is used by the scheduler to shuffle stuff around so they don't clash with other things too much
<AlanBell> you can mark yourself as essential and it will try hard not to put it on at the same time as other stuff you are attending
<Laney> I didn't feel any massive need to go to that session, since nobody told me that Banshee was under threat.
<Laney> there was another one on at the same time that I felt would be more useful
<directhex> AlanBell: the diff between those pads is a fascinating snapshot of just how this symbolic victory for the "i can;t program but I HATE THIS PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE RAAAARGH" crowd is being taken
<AlanBell> Laney: you can also walk out of a session and go to another if you realise you are more useful somewhere else
<AlanBell> didn't mean that to sound critical, was trying to be informative
<Laney> do you think it would have been reasonable for someone to let me know what was going to happen?
<AlanBell> yes, I do
<directhex> the decision was premade. the community veneer was for show
<Laney> also the reason I have not mailed is because I have been back for all of 4 hours and had other things to do
<ali1234> directhex: well that i agree with
<AlanBell> you first commented on the pad at 17:22 ish local time, about 10 minutes after they started talking
<directhex> if they spent their money on a pandaboard for upstream rather than shipping laney over, that would have been a rather better use of their money.
<directhex> but communities are hard work. if only someone had written a book on the art of community
<Laney> I commented when I saw that hyperair's maintenance was being insulted
<Laney> gotta go out
<Laney> ttyl
<directhex> and dnielsen's bug triage
<ali1234> how much is a pandaboard anyway?
<daubers> Evening
<ali1234> i never had a problem reporting bugs on banshee
<ali1234> the guide is excellent, was it written by dnielsen?
<directhex> $174 plus a power supply which is sold separately
<directhex> ali1234: probably
<ali1234> i must have reported 4 or 5 in the past 6 months
<ali1234> but they all turned out to be dupes of existing and sometimes very old bugs
<directhex> i occasionally get pinged about bugs i reported in core ubuntu packages in breezy
<ali1234> really? shouldn't they all be closed by now?
<ali1234> i get a couple "we are closing this bug because this version is no longer maintained" emails every month
<directhex> they probably should be
<AlanBell> popey: I think pitti was the one proposing switching back to Rhythmbox
<ali1234> bug 857299 (sorry, lazy)
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 857299 in banshee (Ubuntu Precise) "banshee window remain white on startup on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857299
<AlanBell> listening to the audio it does seem to me that the "default apps" discussion would be best done not at UDS
<ali1234> i don't think it should be done in 1 session
<AlanBell> it needs a much wider input and more upstream communications
<ali1234> maybe 1 session on monday and one session on friday when the dust has settled
<AlanBell> at least
<directhex> maybe "we're thinking of dropping app X due to problem Y" should be communicated to the authors of app X. maybe. i mean, call me a whiny bitch, but that seems courteous when the authors of app X have already made considerable accommodations for you
<AlanBell> there should be a process for getting on and off the CD
<AlanBell> directhex: much as I would like to call you a whiny bitch, I think you are right :)
<ali1234> +1
<AlanBell> also stuff getting on the CD like GBrainy seems random
<ali1234> as mentioned, it is gone now
<ali1234> i'd like to make something to replace it actually
<AlanBell> it is, but how did it get on in the first place?
<directhex> the lulzy part is the "let's add sysinfo!" in that log
<directhex> sysinfo is an old unmaintained mono app
<ali1234> !info sysinfo
<directhex> AlanBell: did the Brain Age craze pass you by?
<lubotu3`> sysinfo (source: sysinfo): display computer and system information. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7-4 (natty), package size 105 kB, installed size 388 kB
<AlanBell> directhex: my kids play some of those brain things, some friends came round to play it on the WII
<ali1234> directhex: gbrainy is nothing like those games, it's more like doing an IQ test. the kind people hate.
<AlanBell> they all seemed to know what they were doing and tried to pursuade me to join in
<AlanBell> kept telling them I don't play games, don't care, don't want to participate
<StevenR> hrrm. so I'm planning on getting a wireless keyboard. However, I wonder how secure they are from folk sniffing passwords from the air. Is there a way I can either secure the wireless keyboard in some fashion, or have a "software" keyboard that works via ssh from another computer? (the pc I want to control wirelessly is my home server/mythbox)
<AlanBell> eventually they forced the controller on me and I had a go and got the high score :)
<directhex> StevenR: i think bluetooth keyboards should be considered secure
<directhex> but not RF
<ali1234> StevenR: you can do the keyboard-over-ssh thing with synergy and a ssh tunnel
<directhex> i'm guessing a bit though
<ali1234> yes, bluetooth keyboards should be secure
<StevenR> ali1234: really, what I want is enough to type passwords in. For controlling mythtv, an RF keyboard should be fine
<StevenR> directhex: if the pin/key is sufficiently long, yes.
<directhex> anyway. i need to re-blog my thoughts on the banshee removal. the wordpress app for webos decided to throw away an hour's typing, so i need to redo mostly from start
<directhex> and i'm too sober to do it now
<AlanBell> I am a bit surprised there wasn't a whole RB vs Banshee session like there was for the RDP client http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19614/desktop-p-freerdp/
<directhex> AlanBell: too much publicity for a premade decision, i expect
<ali1234> StevenR: RF keyboards have been demonstrated to be insecure. i doubt anyone would use it to hack into your home server though.
<AlanBell> directhex: do you think more publicity would have changed it?
<daubers> Is banshee going again?
<ali1234> apparently
<directhex> AlanBell: no. i think canonical being a free-software community member rather than a pure consumer might have changed it.
<daubers> It comes it goes
<ali1234> not if you're a LTS user
<directhex> and even if it didn't change it, it would have been polite
<directhex> ali1234: f-spot is coming back?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> i never really noticed it going
<AlanBell> directhex: personally I expect one or two people came to that session with the pre-made intention of getting a decision to go to Rhythmbox. If there was a general negative reaction then they wouldn't have been able to carry the decision.
<AlanBell> I don't think UDS sessions are wide enough to overcome the "one person decides, nobody objects much" system of decision making
<directhex> ali1234: f-spot was the photo app in dapper, hardy & lucid. nobody's saying "zomg can't change app in LTS" to being it back in oneiric. that's a really bullshit line of reasoning.
<AlanBell> which mostly doesn't matter, for most sessions
<directhex> or evo -> thunderbird
<AlanBell> I guess if you are going to flip flop it makes sense to arrange LTS to be on a flip to flip cadence
<AlanBell> or a flop to flop cadence, that would work too
 * AlanBell votes for alternating music players in all releases
<directhex> is it possible to comment on this topic without citing greg k-h's "canonical doesn't contribute upstream" slides?
 * daubers just tends to use spotify...
<AlanBell> directhex: the other reason was it is possibly easier to do interesting things with a music lens without the app running with Rhythmbox
<AlanBell> is that true?
<directhex> AlanBell: where is that said?
<AlanBell> hard to get access to the banshee database without banshee running to present an API
<AlanBell> in the audio
<AlanBell> rhythmbox is an XML file so a lens can parse it quickly and easily without starting the app
<ali1234> how do i access the audio?
<directhex> parsing xml is quicker than sqlite?
<ali1234> probably
<AlanBell> directhex: I have no clue if it was true or not, hence my question
<AlanBell> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-p/ <- audio files
<AlanBell> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-p/2011-11-02-21-00-desktop-p-default-apps.1.ogg < start 10 minutes from the beginning
<AlanBell> and if you have banshee, don't use the mouse wheel to scroll through it :)
<directhex> oh boy i have a big surging erection at needing to apply forensics to audio files to work this out, rather than any kind of cooperation with upstream.
<ali1234> they play directly in firefox :)
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, but then they don't save anywhere sensible, and I couldn't scroll through it
<ali1234> yeah you can scroll
<ali1234> just grab the little speech bubble thingy
<AlanBell> oh yeah, that wasn't working for me earlier!
<AlanBell> no mouse wheel scroll
<Myrtti> good grief I hate this hardware tweaking stuff
<Myrtti> hours of work and things don't *still* work
<ali12341> is there any software for bulk flashing usb drives?
<bigcalm> ali12341: up arrow on a dd command?
<AlanBell> Myrtti: I would like to help you get onboard working nice
<ali12341> i need something that works in parallel
<Myrtti> I don't really mind onboard being rubbish
<AlanBell> I do!
<Myrtti> it's the magic of not knowing how to rightclick that vexes me more
<Myrtti> I can promptly move to hating onboard with all my might after I've figured rightclicking
<AlanBell> hmm, onboard can do that with hover click, but that requires a mouse
<AlanBell> oh, no it doesn't
<AlanBell> onboard has a right click button
<Myrtti> I wonder how much a decent bluetooth keyboard is
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboardmouse.png
<AlanBell> Myrtti: using that layout the second button in the mouse column is to right click, press that then prod the screen where you want to right clic
<AlanBell> if you can't see that, prod the arrow next to the drag button to show that column
<AlanBell> top button is middle click
<AlanBell> interestingly they all have tooltips, but you won't see them on a touchscreen
<ali12341> hmm... if i have 100 identical USB flash drives plugged into a computer with loads of hubs, and one of them is bad, how can i identify which one it is?
<ali12341> something about the bus topology
<AlanBell> do they have activity LEDs?
<ali12341> i don't know
<ali12341> let's assume they don't
<bigcalm> The hubs or the usb flash drives?
<ali12341> the usb flash drives
<ali12341> let's also assume i have 10 identical 10 port hubs and 10 usb ports on the motherboard
<AlanBell> what happens after sdz0 ?
<ali12341> sdaa i think
<AlanBell> ok, so in software you know that /dev/sdat is giving IO errors of some kind right?
<ali12341> yeah
<ali12341> how do i trace that to a physical port?
<AlanBell> can you plug them in one by one in order?
<ali12341> no, i am too lazy
<AlanBell> so start with 100 empty ports, first one is sda and so on
<AlanBell> ok, so you need to unplug them and report which one is being unplugged as you go
<AlanBell> but you won't want to do that either will you :)
<ali12341> yeah
<ali12341> well how do i know which one was unplugged?
<ali12341> this is the actual problem
<ali12341> i need to copy 10mb of files to 100 flash drives
<ubuntubhoy> ali12341, if it was duff, the system would just ignore it, as it does with a couple of duff SD cards I have
<mattt> evening all
<ali12341> ubuntubhoy: but that is not helpful, because i don't want to give someone a bad one
<ali12341> and i don't want to manually check each one one at a time
<ali12341> i want to plug them all in and run a program that flashes them all and reports which ones are bad
<AlanBell> there is information in /var/log/syslog
<ali12341> usb 1-6.4
<ali12341> that seems to be a fixed unique identifier of the port
<AlanBell> yeah, just trying to figure out how that relates to bus/device
<ali12341> since i don't actually have 10 x 10 port hubs
<ali12341> what i actually want is to be able to plug in drives until i run out of ports, then it says "port 1 is done, plug in another" and have it do that while working on a nother one
<ali12341> so i can just shuffle drives constantly without having to wait
<ali12341> so it needs to be able to say which one is done, and whether it worked or not
<ubuntubhoy> but when you plug in a duffer, it wont mount
<ubuntubhoy> so you will physically see it
<ali12341> i won't see anything
<ali12341> i will see that one of them didn't mount
<ali12341> but i won't know which one
<ali12341> because there is 100
<ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671279] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Unhandled sense code
<ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671285] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb]  Result: hostbyte=invalid driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
<ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671293] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb]  Sense Key : Medium Error [current]
<ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671302] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb]  Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error
<ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671311] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
<ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671329] end_request: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0
<AlanBell> !flood
<lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<ubuntubhoy> thats what I get from one of my duff SD cards
<ubuntubhoy> and soz
<Myrtti> uhhuhh
<ali12341> usb 1-6.3 <- the other port on the same hub
<ali12341> so yeah that's part of it
<AlanBell> Device numbers don't appear to be useful at all
<ali12341> device node names aren't much use
<ali12341> i plan to watch for the vendor/product ID
<ali12341> then remount it, copy files, sync, remount ro, md5sum files, and print success/fail message
<AlanBell> lsusb -t
<ali12341> ah that's helpful
<AlanBell> those port numbers look useful
<ali12341> yes that matches up with the 1-6.3
<AlanBell> in fact they look like the 1-6.3
<AlanBell> bus one port 6 then port 3 on the hub
<ali12341> exactly
<ali12341> so i can use that to "label" each port on whatever hub i am using
<ali12341> if only usb had an eject command that actually made the cable unplug itself
<AlanBell> if only Ubuntu didn't claim it had!
<AlanBell> bug 764905
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 764905 in Ayatana Design "Drag and drop a USB key into the trash should eject the USB key" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764905
<AlanBell> thats what you want, fire the thing across the room with the eject command
<AlanBell> Myrtti: in onboard preferences you can tell onboard to hide to a floating icon, does that work well for you? looks like it should do for a touch screen.
<matti> Guys.
<matti> Anybody owns a System76 machine?
<matti> I do not want to pay IBM / Lenovo this time.
<matti> But I want a nice, Linux-friendly system.
 * matti is looking at reviews etc.
<AlanBell> UK keyboard?
<matti> AlanBell: Hm?
<matti> AlanBell: Are you asking me? ;]
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> does it have/do you want a UK keyboard?
<matti> Oh.
<matti> I am not sure whether it has UK layout.
<matti> Hm.
<matti> ThinkPad W520 I want is almost the same as Serval Professional I want ;p
<matti> LOL
<AlanBell> nice laptop, bit heavy
<matti> Yeah.
<matti> It will be a desktop replacement for me.
 * matti has bazillion VMs running things on his old 13" Samsung Q70.
<AlanBell> I have quite a few on my core i3 samsung R530
<AlanBell> put 8GB of ram in it
<matti> I put 2x 2GB recently.
<matti> Max it can take is 4 GB.
<matti> Its from 2007 ;]
<matti> I really like ThinkPad W520.
<matti> But is darn expensive beast.
<matti> Nearly 2.5k GBP
<matti> Too much.
<Myrtti> ubuntu one setup :-( Y U SO RUBBISH
<matti> Myrtti: I lost data with U1.
<matti> Myrtti: Nice thing, but ... requires some work ;]
<Myrtti> I lose my sanity with this tablet
<matti> :<
<ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, what tablet you using ?
<Myrtti> exopc/wetab
<ubuntubhoy> that has a nearly full Android 3.2 port iirc, have you tried it ?
<AlanBell> night all o/
<Myrtti> I already own an Android device, having another doesnt necessarily make this one more fun
<ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, its more a convenience thing, I also have a Vega, but would love to get 3.2 working right on my Duo
<Myrtti> Ill just start writing bugreports until everyone at canonical hate me
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<Myrtti> it's of course a cunning plan to make them hire me.
<Myrtti> anyway, should go to bed so I have energy for tomorrow, for filing those bugreports.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-29
<AlanBell> http://video.ubuntu.com/live/ UDS is starting up
<ali1234> AlanBell: black screen and loud buzzing noise?
<bb15> hi all!
<AlanBell> ali1234: refresh, it is back now
<ali1234> i get nothing now
<daubers> I'll catch the keynote on the youtubes
<ali1234> the year of ARM servers is like the year of linux desktop
<popey> heh
<christel> morning
<daubers> o/
<knightdroid> Mooornin
<MooDoo> morning all
<christel> \o
<TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah - half term :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mrs TheOpenSourcerer tried her new PC last night. Doesn't like the global menu (neither do I). Wants to have her shortcuts to various directories/apps etc. that used to live along the top bar restored. lol Told her that was "by design" and she had no hope.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: change to xubuntu?
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning danfish. I am inclined to see if I can fix, or workaround, these limitations.
<andyc> I've just had a weird problem - Rhythmbox refused to play m4a files despite installing restricted extras.  This was resolved when I removed ~/gstreamer-0.10... What is kept in there that stops a file being played correctly?
<danfish> I really really dislike Mondays
<andyc> Oh no scrap that - the issue isn't resolved :P
<knightdroid> Hmmm  i an realy thinking about trying the google on a nexus thing
<andyc> knightdroid, What's that then?
<knightdroid> What they showed at uds   running full scale ubuntu on a nexus 7
<andyc> Oh I saw a post on g+ from popey with an image of that
<andyc> Can it dual boot?  I wouldn't want to lose android if I had one...
<daubers> danfish: Have you ever played with the room thermostat controls on a boiler?
<hoover> morning all
<knightdroid> An
<danfish> daubers: a little bit - what've you got in mind?
<knightdroid> An inger
<knightdroid> Sorry   fighting a small keyboard here
<daubers> danfish: Arduino, SSR, Xbee :)
<daubers> danfish: timer's failed in the boiler. Thought it would be a good time to "upgrade"
<danfish> daubers: sounds like a plan - have you tried programming the ATtiny84's with arduino - very cheap when you don't want/need a full arduino
<daubers> danfish: Yes :) Will eventually replace the lot with a specifically made PCB. Just throwing it together with what's around at the moment.
<ali1234> andyc it does not dual boot
<ali1234> it should be easy enough to implement though
<danfish> good job UDS is on this side of the pond!
<BigRedS> Heh. I think every time I've flw
<BigRedS> flown anywhere in the past few years I've had the opportunity to be pleasantly surprised at modern Linux printer support
<BigRedS> but it's odd that the only time I need to print anything is when I'm going to fly somewhere...
<czajkowski> BigRedS: when you here?
<BigRedS> I arrive this eve and leave Weds morning. Apparentrly I'm to talk to people in suits at this enterprise summit, though, rahter than do anything particularly interesting
<BigRedS> I'll be putting the hype in hyperscaling apparently; I will be winning ubingo.
<czajkowski> make sure you come say hi
<czajkowski> and poke Laney
<czajkowski> gord: you alive!
<Laney> grururneiruane
<czajkowski> Laney: and how is your noggin
<Laney> wot
 * BigRedS fills in this valve-on-linux survey
<BigRedS> really hard to not think "Hm, which would make me an ideal test-case" for each question
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> morning, how's thinks?
<BigRedS> er, things
<hoover> Morning BigRedS
<brobostigon> BigRedS:  not bad, my eczema is irritable. and have my dermatologist to at the hospital this afternoon. and you?
<BigRedS> Not bad. Got incredibly cold and wet on teh way home last night, still mildly bitter about having to come back up to The North from London every weekend
<czajkowski> BigRedS: joined 16384
<czajkowski> BigRedS: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad/+members
<BigRedS> czajkowski: hm?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: join that team so you can read the notes from sessions
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I thought as much, can't find a 'join' button... :)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
<BigRedS> aha!
<BigRedS> maybe I need to spend more time on lp
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mgdm> 'lo
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> mgdm: I'm going to be (at some point) working on a generic social club management system in Symfony2 and OS the whole thing. Think you might be interested in chipping in at some point?
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm on holiday this Thursday, so won't be at the workplace day (will we ever have one again?). So I should attend the LUG on Wednesday
<mgdm> bigcalm: possibly, keep me informed :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: grand :)
<lornajane> is it rope-mgdm-into-more-projects day? Because I just did that too :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: not at this rate although I'll catch up with moreati and mrevell  and see if they are going
<bigcalm> I can't decide to do it under my own github account or start a new one for this project under my idophp name
<bigcalm> lornajane: \o/ Fancy seeing you in here :)
<lornajane> bigcalm: I only come here when I either need some sanity, or want something
<bigcalm> Haha, this is one of the more gentile channels...
<bigcalm> lornajane: well, good to see you here for what ever reason :)
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> yeah, hence the 'possibly' :)
<mgdm> I've been meaning to learn SF2, just not quite had enough round tuits yet
<bigcalm> A club that my father is in is in need of what they call an 'intranet'. I call is a generic social club management system. So I'm trying to get as many requirement details out of him before even considering coding
<mgdm> wise
<bigcalm> Having a project with structure is a good way to learn a new framework I think
<mgdm> I have a project in mind, too
<bigcalm> I just wish I understood how to do ACL, for groups of clients, properly in SF2
<bigcalm> But will it be OS?
<DJones> Argh..How difficult is it to get work done when you're working from home
<mgdm> Mine might be depending on how well I think I do it ;-)
<mgdm> lornajane: any ideas about doing ACLs like bigcalm's talking about?
<lornajane> DJones: I work from home full time and find I enjoy the peace and quiet ... I have a good setup here though as I'm here all the time
<czajkowski> DJones: very easy.
<lornajane> mgdm, bigcalm: I haven't done a lot with SF2 myself so although I know there are users/groups type permissions, I couldn't say more than that
<bigcalm> DJones: you have to be committed to your work. There are lots of distractions here
<czajkowski> I wfh and have it set up nicely
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: http://civicrm.org/
<DJones> lornajane: I will be doing 90% of the time, but as its just starting, I keep thinking I should be doing something else
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: looked at it, too complex for what is required
<lornajane> DJones: shut the door until lunchtime :)
<DJones> Just feels strange to be sat with work to do, and to be at home, think it'll take a week or so to get settled
<bigcalm> DJones: took me a couple of years
<lornajane> actually I do now run up and down the stairs putting washing in and things, but I started with quite a strict office routine
<bigcalm> DJones: are you working from home full time now?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Something probably will do what you need in here then: http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/clients-a-communities
<lornajane> I was lucky and got to practice as a remote employee first, before I went self-employed, so I made office-hours habits
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: joomla is in the wrong language for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> CommunityBuilder is very popular
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: the point of doing this in PHP and SF2 is that it will aid my understanding for my day time job
<DJones> bigcalm: Yes, got made redundant, so started up as self employed, picked up a few clients to start, mostly working from home, occasional visit to the client, although most of it is dealt with through email/phone
<bigcalm> DJones: wow, good luck with it :)
<mgdm> bigcalm: wrong language? Joomla? It's PHP?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What services do you offer DJones?
<DJones> Thanks, going ok so far, the dog loves the idea of me being home all day
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: bookkeeping/accounts
<bigcalm> mgdm: doh, I was thinking of something else :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: is Joomla the one that seems to be used for education/training?
<lornajane> bigcalm: that might be moodle
<TheOpenSourcerer> Joomla! is just the biggest CMS evah!
<bigcalm> lornajane: you're right, it's moodle. Hated working with that :)
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: I thought that was Drupal
<lornajane> in my experience, if you think the answer is joomla, it probably isn't.  Look at drupal by all means, but if you want to make yourself a SF2 project, then go ahead
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Joomla,%20Drupal
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Pretty much anything along those lines, anything from taxi drivers, security firms (bouncers), restaurants, pubsgrooming parlour so far
<lornajane> TheOpenSourcerer: wow
<ali1234> a street fighter 2 project?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Don't believe the drupal hype. It's a great product yes, but so is Joomla!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Joomla! 3 is lovely :-)
<mgdm> I did some work on a Joomla thing a while ago and that was not my opinion, but each to their own :)
<mgdm> it might've been the particular extension I was using
<ali1234> it can't be worse than drupal
<lornajane> I think I got burned by an old joomla version
<mgdm> This one had two models - one for the front-end, and another for the admin
<TheOpenSourcerer> It has improved a lot since the 1.5 series.
<mgdm> which I thought was *bananas*
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hey - I like the separation between front and back ends ;-)
<lornajane> yeah but the models need to be shared!  Front ends need templates, back ends probably don't.  In fact, I think I'm really going to like django when I a) have some time and b) learn some python
<BigRedS> Django seems to be the one thing that nobody ever complains about
<mgdm> I've used it a bit
<AlanBell> I can complain about django
<AlanBell> adding or changing a field is a heap of pain that I don't want to care about
<AlanBell> needs south and schema migrations and service restarts
<lornajane> all the full-stack PHP frameworks are going the same way though for that kind of thing
<BigRedS> Hm
<BigRedS> Django seems to be the one thing that nobody other than Alans ever complain about
<BigRedS> :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer hasn't said anything since the only Django he knows is a deceased guitar player
<davmor2> AlanBell: yeah but then you can find complaints about everything ;)
<bigcalm> Slowly catching up on UUPC. Only 4 more until I'm up to date :S
 * TheOpenSourcerer hates half-term. Will need to go and feed the ankle biters shortly...
<bigcalm> Loving that the presenters are slowly going insane
<einonm> TheOpenSourcerer: Actually, I think Django is named after him
<davmor2> bigcalm: slowly?!?!?!
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> Each episode has them cracking up more and more
<TheOpenSourcerer> einonm:  Him -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_Reinhardt
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep: "The Django web framework is named after him, as is version 3.1 of the blog software WordPress.[35]"
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think you'll find that popey and tonytiger haven't been sane for years ;)
<einonm> TheOpenSourcerer: yup, the guy with less than the full amount of fingers. I think there's a naming scheme for modules that's jazz-music based because of it
<daubers> bigcalm: I love Django \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Fantastic guitarist. My Dad got me into him.
<einonm> TheOpenSourcerer: He ws the reason Tony Iommi (sp?) got back into playing after losing a finger too
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did you all see that Parallela got the Kickstarter funding? :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone
<christel> yah! :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't think they were going to make it a few days ago.
 * AlanBell is on a train
<bigcalm> Choochoo
<daubers> AlanBell: You'd be better off inside the train......
<bigcalm> AlanBell is in India
<AlanBell> true
<AlanBell> and false :)
<bigcalm> lubotu3: I missed you!
<daubers> aq goes away and lubotu3 comes back??
<daubers> aq is lubotu3 !
<AlanBell> you never see them in the same room together
 * daubers waits for lubotu3 to leave....
<DJones> Has anybody installed dropbox from the repo's on 12.04 recently, when it starts its giving me a warning "Dropbox is running from an unsupported location" and wants to download & install the latest version from dropbox
<DJones> Ah, known bug
<bigcalm> popey: Amy Ferguson? (I'm catching up on uupcs)
<popey> friend of ours
<bigcalm> Cool
<bigcalm> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Ferguson ?
<jpds> popey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20033471
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<DJones> ARGH, getting fed up of "International incoming calls" asking to speak to someone who has never lived here
<popey> AlanBell, you around?
<einonm> I seem to be having issues with pad.ubuntu.com - never used it before, is there anything special I need to do to login? I'm already in launchpad.
<davmor2> DJones: simply ask for the company name so you know who to sue for harassment you'll be surprised by how quickly they a) hang up and b) never ring again
<DJones> davmor2: I told them couldn't speak to the person they wanted because they died about 5 years ago, next thing I heard was the click as the call was ended
<davmor2> DJones: Yes but they won't put that on the system to stop the calls.  If you threaten to sue them you're number gets flagged as hostile and they never ring again
<DJones> That works with uk calls, doesn't seem to bother overseas call centres
<lornajane> I find most of the international callers have heard of the telephone preference service stuff and will vanish FAST when they find out they shouldn't have called you
<lornajane> I also report them if I get a company name
<DJones> I do that when I get info
<dogmatic69> DJones: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/27/cold-calling-firm-success_n_2029425.html
<NET||abuse> i'm finally going to re-install ubuntu
<NET||abuse> full disk encryption on 12.10,,
<NET||abuse> i've been away a year, anything worth knowing about :)
<dogmatic69> I have home encryption on my one server and its pants. would not do it again.
<NET||abuse> home encryption is completely different
<NET||abuse> that's a stacked encryption, ontop of the filesystem
<NET||abuse> this is block level encrytpion
<NET||abuse> so the whole partition is encrypted
<NET||abuse> rigth, boot usb disk made, time to reboot
<NET||abuse> see you soon if i survive "!:
<Pendulum> I've managed to scare off people twice this year with the absolute truth. Unfortunately they were both "legit" calls because they were from companies we actually use, just have no interest in upgrading/adding features.
<Pendulum> The first was the evening of the day my grandmother died
<Pendulum> The second was when I was in the acute hospital a couple weeks ago. (No one's tried since I've been in the rehab hospital yet)
<Pendulum> I always have this sense of satisfaction when they start apologizing
<NET||abuse> yay,, ok, i'm up and running, but then I'm not..
<NET||abuse> finished my install, now unity desktop wont' show up
<lornajane> that sounds like a feature to me
 * lornajane ducks
<NET||abuse> i login to my user, i just see the wallpaper, no toolbar
<AlanBell> hi popey
<AlanBell> on train now
<NET||abuse> this is after trying to enable additional drivers
<NET||abuse> for my nvidia card :(
<NET||abuse> how do i disable that without being able to see the desktop :( i can switch to a tty terminal
<NET||abuse> arrrg, stuck
<lornajane> NET||abuse: when you log in, the screen where you have a username and password, you will have a choice of desktops
<NET||abuse> hi guys, nope
<NET||abuse> been searching all over that, there's no options
<bigcalm> o.O
<lornajane> try a different one (desktops might not be the right term)
<NET||abuse> yeh, there's nothing in any of the menus up the top anywhere
<NET||abuse> i have accessability, language, network, sound, power, clock and shutdown menu
<NET||abuse> there's nothing to do with desktop options.
<NET||abuse> I expected the little cog icon somwhere around my name for the login
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: is there an icon next to your login name (where you enter your password)?
<bigcalm> Oh
<NET||abuse> how do i change the drivers from the command line
<davmor2> lornajane: on 12.10 there is only unity3d unless you install another desktop environment
<NET||abuse> hmm, this blows
<NET||abuse> Ubuntu, you failed me
<lornajane> davmor2: I'm an XFCE user so I am sort of the blind leading the blind here :)
<einonm> NET||abuse: For the X server, I think there's a file like /etc/X.org.conf
<bigcalm> xubuntu \o/
<lornajane> I also haven't upgraded yet - only just back from mad conference trips, and upgrading in the middle of those never ends well
<lornajane> bigcalm: actually it was kind of Mint and then ... yeah.  So now it's a bit of everything!
<bigcalm> lornajane: Ubuntu 12.10 comes with PHP 5.4 as default. Was a bit of a shock and older projects don't like it :)
<einonm> NET||abuse:  that tells the X server to use the nvidia driver....or you can just do a 'sudo rmmod <drivername>'
<davmor2> NET||abuse: you can try sudo apt-get remove nvidia-<tab> till you get the right one and switch back to the neuvau driver
<lornajane> bigcalm: yeah I'm expecting a lot of migration enquiries
<NET||abuse> i tried the nvidia-current-updates so that broker
<NET||abuse> have to chooose the other nvidia-current one with (current,tested) instead of just current)
<NET||abuse> davmor2: cheers.
 * BigRedS is in Copenhagen
<NET||abuse> right, got rid of nvidia-current-updates, login works again
<bigcalm> BigRedS: give me your access to steam linux beta!
<NET||abuse> ahh, i signed up for that, I WANT
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's 4 peeps going to the LUG, I wonder if we'll get back to normal numbers any time soon
<BigRedS> I've been using the steam linuxthing as an excuse to not bother looking for ethernet drivers for Windows for my laptop
<BigRedS> for about six weeks now...
<popey> AlanBell, will chat later, picked up some a11y stuff to do
<AlanBell> great
<popey> need your help :)
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> czajkowski, your tab is done
<NET||abuse> hmm, i installed the nvidia drivers and now my boot screen is all ugly.
<czajkowski> popey: thank you
<czajkowski> where are you now?
<NET||abuse> arrrg,, very supprised at this, the nvidia drivers not working on ubuntu,
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: the ATI binary driver doesn't work in 12.10 either
<popey> czajkowski, in room, coming back down now
<czajkowski> ok will be down in a bit do you want your bottle brought ?
<NET||abuse> bigcalm: so no-one has 3d accelleration yet?
<NET||abuse> wow!!
<bigcalm> NET||abuse: I have no idea. It's not something I care much for
<czajkowski> popey: want your bottle brought dwn ?
<popey> nah, I'll grab it later ta
 * popey heads down
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> popey: will grab my nexus tomorrow so
<AlanBell> NET||abuse: Intel works great, and the free drivers for nvidia and AMD should work for the desktop shouldn't they?
<ali1234> i wouldn't want to use nouveau to run unity
<bootinfdsds> My google plus is asking me to give them a phone number to verify ... Is there any way around this ?
<davmor2> bootinfdsds: click on the cancel button
<bootinfdsds> davmor2, there isn't one .. there is only a continue button to key in the pass-code.
<bootinfdsds> Has anyone got a spare mobile number that they haven't registered with google that I could use, just to get past this point, and then you can PM me the verification passcode (I think it is six or seven numbers) .. Let me know in a Private Mesage if you can help me out, Please.
<bootinfdsds> I only use skype these days.
<davmor2> bootinfdsds: I don't know why it needs it, if you have a mobile I get it but there should be a cop out clause
<bootinfdsds> davmor2, Right, exactly, I do have a landline, but why I should give anyone online - that number , I dunno !
 * bootinfdsds assumes the google-is-your-f'er position.
 * MartijnVdS returns from the land of ire
<BigRedS> ire or eire?
<yothsoggoth> Anybody got a figure for how much RAM a fresh Ubuntu install uses with no programs loaded?
<zleap> type free from the command line
<zleap> as for a figure not sure
<AlanBell> yothsoggoth: with a desktop started, or at the login screen?
<yothsoggoth> AlanBell: With the desktop started
<AlanBell> cleanest vm I have is running 12.10 and was installed with accessibility so orca is loaded, it uses 587328 at the login screen
<yothsoggoth> Thanks AlanBell
<AlanBell> it is using 800000 at the desktop (varying a bit)
<AlanBell> this isn't a very meaningful figure
<AlanBell> I gave it 1.7Gb of ram, it is using just under a gig of it because it can
<yothsoggoth> Fair enough. I'm just pondering what distro to put on a 1GB netbook I have, obviously I want something with a fairly low minimum RAM usage
<BigRedS> I'd be more concerned about the DE than the distro that packaged it
<jpds> BigRedS: Ze Germans?
<yothsoggoth> BigRedS: Yeah, I've been looking at DEs too. I'm most likely gonna stick with XFCE.
<yothsoggoth> Is there any major difference between install Xubuntu or installing Ubuntu and then XFCE?
<AlanBell> yothsoggoth: what netbook exactly?
<AlanBell> can it take 2GB?
<AlanBell> and does it have a sensible atom processor and intel graphics that are not GMA500 poulsbo
<yothsoggoth> AlanBell: Samsung n220 Plus. It's an Atom N450, but unfortunately only has 1GB ram
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Eire, actually :)
<AlanBell> yeah, pop in 2GB for about Â£20
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks :)
<yothsoggoth> yeah, I do plan on upgrading to 2GB eventually
<AlanBell> or ask around and see if anyone has a 2GB stick lying about
<camason_> any videos of the valve talk at UDS available?
<AlanBell> camason_: http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-r/ audio is here somewhere
<camason_> thank you sir
<AlanBell> that said, I can't see it in the list
<camason_> I found it
<camason_> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-r/2012-10-29-13-10-drew-bliss-valve.0.ogg
<AlanBell> oh, right
<camason_> ctrl+f -> valve = win
 * AlanBell listens to the IRC session and accessibility sessions
<MartijnVdS> they're still going on?!
<AlanBell> recordings :)
<MartijnVdS> back in my day, UDS days stopped before dinner ;)
<camason_> if Steam runs on Linux, the only thing still keeping me on a Windows host is Adobe
<MartijnVdS> camason_: Adobe what?
<camason_> photoshop / flash / illustrator
<AlanBell> play two at once and use pulse settings to send one to the left ear and one to the right \o/
<AlanBell> twice the listening speed :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: also, play at 120% sped
<MartijnVdS> speed
<AlanBell> camason_: gimp and inkscape ftw :)
<camason_> no chance :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: wfm ;)
<MartijnVdS> though Rawtherapee is usually enough for me
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Ireland pix ;)
<AlanBell> camason_: any specific reason, or familiarity?
<camason_> huge part is familiarity, but the other part is compatibility
<AlanBell> personally I have used gimp and inkscape for many years, I would have no desire to learn photoshop and illustrator
<AlanBell> so I can see the issue going the other way
<camason_> not that I enjoy paying for it..
<MartijnVdS> camason_: Adobe do enjoy that bit though
<camason_> I'm sure.
 * MartijnVdS went to Dublin.. and it was great! :)
<AlanBell> yeah, compatibility can be an issue for some people, I never have had to collaborate with people on source files though
<camason_> we're an agency that does all the time :/
<camason_> oh, and InDesign
<AlanBell> fair enough then :)
<camason_> how could I forget.
<MartijnVdS> gimp saves psd, doesn't it?
<AlanBell> is that like scribus?
<camason_> don't know. But the good thing is the adobe stuff runs pretty nicely in Vitualbox
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, I believe it can load and save adobe formats reasonably well
<MartijnVdS> camason_: it might even run nicely in wine
<camason_> no :(
<AlanBell> but I can also believe it is not good enough if you are doing it all the time :)
<camason_> although, the latest version runs much better in Wine than other builds ever did
<AlanBell> generally I am using Gimp to do simple image processing for website artwork
<AlanBell> where we are given some graphics (maybe as an existing website or PDF) and have to adapt it to fit the shape required for the thing we are building
<camason_> the biggest reason I'm hoping Valve succeed is better video drivers
<AlanBell> so maybe chopping stuff up to make repeating sections for fluid width layouts or whatever
<camason_> looking forward to the day when I can install Ubuntu and arrange 4 screens like I can on windows
<camason_> valve working with the driver devs can only help that
<AlanBell> it is OKish for me on intel graphics with laptop and external monitors
<AlanBell> although it does my head in that it always wants to flip to mirrored screens
<camason_> I know the biggest issue is the hardware vendors and their closed binaries.
<AlanBell> one thing that can be an issue is that too much testing is done on matching pairs of monitors on a desktop
<AlanBell> this is an odd edge case for most people
<camason_> my office setup is 2 Dell IPS panels on DisplayPort, 1 on HDMI, one of DVI
<AlanBell> if you have a laptop with a 1366x768 screen it is *highly* unlikely that you are going to hook it up to an external display of matching resolution
<camason_> getting that working at all on Ubuntu is a bit... tricky...
<camason_> I often rotate one of the IPs panels into vertical mode. two clicks on windows to get it rotated
<AlanBell> two clicks on Ubuntu
 * AlanBell rotates screen
<camason_> two hours to even get the screen to display :(
<AlanBell> actally that is pretty cool :O
<camason_> that would be heaven though... all the Adobe suite, supporting my tablets, and all my screens working :D
<camason_> Designing on Linux is like developing on Windows. Designing on Windows is like Developing on Linux.
<camason_> with our workflow
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Screenshot%20from%202012-10-29%2022:09:02.png
<camason_> nice :D
<AlanBell> ubuntu actually has good built in support for multi monitors and rotation
<camason_> it does until you have more than 1 card
<AlanBell> just the binary drivers and proprietary controller applications are rubbish
<AlanBell> over complicated and don't work well
<camason_> yup :(
<AlanBell> Unity isn't great for multi monitors, but that is a separate issue altogether
<camason_> so I hope Valve's push will help improve the drivers
<camason_> I'm having to use Gnome Classic at the moment. 3D accell in guests doesn't work in virtualbox for 12.10
<AlanBell> in fact in my current configuration in the screenshot the geany menu is about 2000 pixels away from the application itself
<AlanBell> yeah, that is a real pain
<MartijnVdS> isn't that a bit .. useless?
<camason_> isn't what?
<AlanBell> do you use mac OS devices camason_?
<camason_> we do
<AlanBell> is the global menu liked or hated?
<camason_> but my main machine is Windows 7 host, Ubuntu guest
<camason_> I don't use the macs day to day
<camason_> are we talking about the header-bar merging into the desktop bar?
<AlanBell> I think that is the one "feature" I will never get used to
<camason_> that does wind me up
<AlanBell> no, talking about menus being disconnected from the applications and put at the top of the screen
<camason_> yeah, I know what you mean. I phrased it terribly
<AlanBell> so not part of the application window
<camason_> I dislike it on mac and dislike it on ubuntu
<AlanBell> ok, interesting
<camason_> one of my devs couldn't stand unity, so switched to xfce
<bigcalm> xbuntu \o/
<MartijnVdS> camason_: yay freedom
<camason_> indeed :)
<camason_> but now I can't use Unity
<camason_> so I'm back to gnome for now
<camason_> what's most painful is one of our main projects has to talk with MS SQL Server
<camason_> however, that's where virtualbox snapshots are amazing.
<bigcalm> A database abstraction layer helps make that less painful :)
<camason_> partially
<camason_> MS released a driver for RHEL, which does work on ubuntu with a couple of symlinks. That helps.
<camason_> SQL server just makes things difficult. Paginate some data with WHERE and ORDER BY? Lolnope.
<bigcalm> One of my main projects runs on linux but uses MSSQL and MySQL databases on different machines. Was painful to set-up and I hate using RPD to administer the DB
 * daubers is slowly moving all his DB's from MySQL to Postgres
<MartijnVdS> \o/ pgsql
<AlanBell> camason_: the ubuntu python-mssql driver is broken :(
<MartijnVdS> we just moved to PostgreSQL 9.1 at work
<MartijnVdS> â¥
<daubers> The MySQL C libraries really really suck
<AlanBell> as is the debian, but the upstream one is working fine
<bigcalm> I like recording my pain for future tears: http://www.myrant.net/2012/02/02/symfony-1-4-doctrine-1-2-ms-sql-server/
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1316572/ love this function in OpenERP
<bigcalm> Haha
<camason_> if you use Doctrine 2 bigcalm, I posted this today: https://github.com/CraigMason/DoctrineSqlServerExtensions
<camason_> primarily to allow DISTINCT usage with individual columns, and proper fetch-join pagination
<camason_> you use odbc?
<camason_> we use FreeTDS with pdodblib
<bigcalm> I've only used MSSQL with a Symfony 1.4 application. So it only has Doctrine 1.2
<bigcalm> It does use FreeTDS with ODBC
<camason_> gotta shoot. Evening.
<AlanBell> hmm, wonder if the nexus 10 will run Ubuntu
<AlanBell> http://www.google.co.uk/nexus/10/index.html the spec looks really good
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-30
<knightdroid> Mornin
<dwatkins> wotcher
<knightdroid> Hey dwatkins
<dwatkins> I've been trying to understand why one of the munin scripts isn't working when I try to extend it, it's like perl is some kind of magic.
<ali1234> i think i found a no nonsense issue tracker like i was looking for the other week
<ali1234> https://github.com/mikelbring/tinyissue
<dwatkins> that is indeed neat
<ali1234> i especially like that it is easy to install and does not need any weird stuff like ruby
<ali1234> gitlab has a install script that installs random packages in /usr/local and creates users on the system and who knows what else
<dwatkins> This is how these things should be.
<ali1234> and no way to undo it automatically of course
<dwatkins> A friend reccomended I use Mercator for version control, this looks like it might be worth considering as well.
<ali1234> i guess it depends on your situation
<ali1234> i'm one developer with two users and i just need something better than getting an email once a month with "here's all the things we want you to fix"
<dwatkins> yeah, this is all for future personal development, it's not like I'll be working with people already setup to use git or svn.
<dwatkins> I use hnb at home ;)
<ali1234> i don't know what that means, sorry
<dwatkins> oh sorry, I mean that for tracking my own issues I use the heirarchical notebook application on the console
<dwatkins> within screen, of course
<ali1234> still no idea what that means
<ali1234> just run hnb in terminal?
<dwatkins> yeah
<ali1234> for my own stuff i just remember what i need to do :)
<ali1234> the problem is discussing requested changes
<ali1234> and keeping it straight so everyone knows what has been fixed, what is still in discussion, and what is just a dumb request
<ali1234> hnb looks fun
<ali1234> would prefer GUI version though
<dwatkins> we use a fairly complex custimised support ticketing system at work, but people don't always read the notes
<ali1234> it's not my problem if people don't read the comments :)
<dwatkins> it's web-based, but I weep internally whenever I run wireshark to track something as the page checks for changes every second for some reason, even when it's not doing anything.
<dwatkins> hehe, yeah
<dwatkins> I could probably use a spreadsheet or other google docs shared document, but I like to be able to get to my shopping/to-do list from anywhere, hence hnb inside screen
<dwatkins> I'd best go do something about breakfast, ttfn :)
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> o/
<tom1210> #ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> AMD to start making ARM-based CPUs... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/amd-announces-arm-based-opteron-cpus-due-to-launch-in-2014/
<CaMason> :o
<tom1210> how do i find the ubuntu support channel?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting slide saying that ARM is a good fit for everything "cloud" and opensource.
<CaMason> it's quite exciting to see a new CPU architecture emerging even in 2012
<TheOpenSourcerer> tom1210: This is the UK Ubuntu channel
<TheOpenSourcerer> the main one is just #ubuntu
<tom1210> how do i change channels please
<TheOpenSourcerer> type "/join #channel-name
<TheOpenSourcerer> no quotes
<tom1210> thanks a lot
<TheOpenSourcerer> np
<Azelphur> morning folks, I've been up all night :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is that good Azelphur
<Azelphur> well it turned out well I guess, but not so much xD
<Azelphur> my server is in NY
<Azelphur> and about to go for a swim
<TheOpenSourcerer> I remember those first days of passion and love :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah...
<CaMason> oh dear Azelphur
<Azelphur> rented a VPS to pull all the data off it as fast as I could at 100mbit
<Azelphur> I got everything off
<Azelphur> so now I'm just chilling out awaiting the inevitable
<CaMason> aren't all the main UK/US undersea cables connecting to NY?
<Azelphur> CaMason: yep
<CaMason> that'll be fun if the peering datacentre dies
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/VBG2ELFB is the mail I got \o/
<CaMason> oh snap
<bb15> Good morning!
<Azelphur> I think InterNAP is the last DC standing, I've been told a few others are already gone
<CaMason> taken gawker out
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh, but that's a decent email. Explaining what is going on quite well and succinctly.
<Azelphur> indeed
<CaMason> until everyone logs in and starts xferring data, increasing loads and power consumption, suddnely it dies within 30 minutes
<Azelphur> CaMason: yea, I could barely get 40mbit on my gigabit line
<Azelphur> was crazy
<CaMason> reminds me of the floods in Oxfordshire a few years ago. My dad's office server was flooded - the water came up to 1 inch below the hard drive
<CaMason> no backups /facepalm
<ali1234> why you using US servers?
<Azelphur> ali1234: nyc gets decent pings to EU and USA.
<directhex> gawker is still offline
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daubers> It's not morning until bacon
<bigcalm> daubers: are you in limbo?
<Flashtek> AlanBell: camera arrived just now...
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> reddit's /r/ubuntu is being filled with people installing ubuntu for the first time
<SuperMatt> I have a feeling this has something to do with valve
<SuperMatt> such a shame a lot of them are using wubi
<daubers> bigcalm: Bacon limbo? The tastiest of all limbo's
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mungojerry> SuperMatt, wubi can be a first step to greatness
<SuperMatt> indeed
<mungojerry> AKA practising "safe linux"
<SuperMatt> but if they expect to get good performance out of steam, they are mistaken
<mungojerry> if i was a windows user i'd be trying wubi first
<mungojerry> until it was necessary to resize partitions
<SuperMatt> I don't disagree with that, but like I said, there are going to be some disappointed people, and some may even be turned off linux, if they don't get good performance out of wubi.
<bashrc> wubi?
<NET||abuse> what a day :) finally got graphics driver working, kill otimus install linux-headers-generic and use the unstable experimental nvidia driver,
<NET||abuse> nothing else would work :(
<bashrc> getting proprietary drivers working in 12.10 is not for the feint of heart
<NET||abuse> now, why is synergy 1.3.8 the pacakged version? synergy 1.4.10 has been out since July!
<NET||abuse> bashrc: :) thankfully i have patience, and calml, and serenity and, phfsffdzf bloody thing!!
<bashrc> "Windows-based Ubuntu Installer", apparently
<NET||abuse> huh?
<bashrc> I don't have much involvement with Windows, so hadn't heard of wubi
<NET||abuse> oh someone else talking bout that
<NET||abuse> i tried it with a potential convert, didnt' take very well
<bashrc> Probably it's easier just to boot from a DVD or USB drive
<NET||abuse> vm
<directhex> wubi uses the old beos boot method? i.e. a big disk image on a windows partition as rootfs?
<NET||abuse> yup, hinkso
<NET||abuse> think so
<bashrc> but in a vm linux often doesn't perform very well - especially things like Unity
<NET||abuse> what's the source "Canonical Partners" package up?
<ali1234> linux peforms extremely well in a VM
<NET||abuse> unity doesn't perform well
<NET||abuse> but linux performs like a champ
<ali1234> unity doesn't perform well anywhere
<bashrc> not in my experience
<bashrc> heh
<directhex> yes, let's run linux in a vm on windows, in order to play 3d games
<directhex> that'll be the best for performance
<NET||abuse> hehehe
<NET||abuse> try bsd warden
<directhex> and not in any way suck bowling balls through a straw
<ali1234> is that what someone actually suggested?
<NET||abuse> run linux inside that jail
<bashrc> for instance, I have the beefy miracle running in a VM.  It works, but is very slow
<mungojerry> is it national grumpy day today?
<ali1234> lol
<directhex> mungojerry, i'm a sysadmin. every day is grumpy day
<ali1234> bashrc: fedora uses gnome shell. gnome shell is also infected with gpu-itis
<NET||abuse> i need to get on with synergy, damn version incompatability,, sucks
<ali1234> any other desktop will work fine in a VM, possible except of KDE4
<mungojerry> i've been away for 10 days, well by away i mean doing anger management with a 2yr old
<bashrc> heh
<bashrc> terrible twos
<mungojerry> yeah
<mungojerry> wasn't chuffed about me going to work today
<bashrc> some people never grow out of it :-)
<NET||abuse> would you think using getdeb repo a bad idea?
<mungojerry> has anyone else treid elementary nightly builds?
<NET||abuse> hmm, how can i push for updting of certain pacakges in ubuntu?
<NET||abuse> just very supprised by certain out of datenesses
<bashrc> indeed it is often the case that packages are out of date
<bashrc> the procedure for repackaging and resubmitting more up to date stuff doesn't seem especially clear
<BigRedS> you dont get big version changes during a release. if it's not a security patch it generallyy has to wait for the next release
<BigRedS> so the way you do that is to set up a PPA generally
<czajkowski> aloha
<mungojerry> it's the fastest OS i've used in ages
<mungojerry> i don't know what sort of witchcraft they have done
<bashrc> which operating system are you refering to?
<BigRedS> aha!
<ali1234> NET||abuse: if you want a package updated in ubuntu the procedure is simple
<ali1234> first you have to get it updated in debian
<bashrc> what's the procedure for getting it updated in debian?
<ali1234> they you want for approximately 6-12 months
<bashrc> heh, yes
<ali1234> the procedure for getting it updated in debian is also simple
<NET||abuse> ali1234: hahah, ouch
<ali1234> first become a debian developer
<ali1234> then take over maintenance of the package
<bashrc> becoming a debian developer seems non-trivial
<ali1234> (if it isn't being updated, existing maintainer has probably quit)
<bashrc> I've investigated trying to get some of my own packages into debian, and it does appear to be a very long and haphazard process
<mungojerry> bashrc, elementaryos: http://noiaggiorniamo.blogspot.co.uk/p/daily-luna-1.html
<BigRedS> yeah, well you're askig the debian project to support it for at least the life of the next stable
<ali1234> elementary looks really nice
<NET||abuse> hmm, i've got dual screen setup and the app bar is causing a nasty level of mouse pointer sticky ness on the secondary monitor edge
<ali1234> i can't even tell what desktop it uses
<ali1234> it doesn't have any of the problems that i associate with them so i just can't place it
<ali1234> NET||abuse: you can configure that in CCSM
<mungojerry> ali1234, it uses a different one, gala
<mungojerry> nearly everythingworks as expected
<mungojerry> intuitive etc
<ali1234> not horribly ugly
<mungojerry> have you actaully tried it? its slick too
<ali1234> no
<BigRedS> i don't believe you
<ali1234> i don't want to move to an unsupported base distro just to get a fancy desktop
<mungojerry> the base is ubuntu
<ali1234> same reason i'm not using mint
<ali1234> is it ubuntu or is it an unsupported fork of ubuntu, like mint?
<mungojerry> its the best linux experience in years
<bashrc> is it the best thing since sliced bread?
<mungojerry> it feels fresh in the same way ubuntu felt fresh when it came out
<ali1234> i just noticed it uses a dock, so that's a deal breaker
<BigRedS> sliced bread is overrated
<BigRedS> bread knives are easy to come by
<ali1234> sliced bread goes moldy faster
<mungojerry> ali1234, try it anyway, just for giggles. even the liveusb loads like a rocket
<ali1234> and supermarket sliced white is horrible
<bashrc> bread making machines ftw
<ali1234> you can hardly even call it bread
<BigRedS> yeah. slived really isn't a compelling feature
<mungojerry> just try it fellas
<ali1234>  /grumps
<mungojerry> you guys are a hard sell
<bashrc> so what is compelling about elementary?
<bashrc> does it have bohi-like bling?
<bashrc> bodhi
<ali1234> it's a modern polished desktop that isn't gnome shell, kde, or ubuntu
<bashrc> what's the window manager?
<ali1234> gala
<mungojerry> its fast and pretty and most importantly does not suffer from the annoyances i experience on unity/GS/etc
<bashrc> never heard of gala
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but more importantly is what is the dock and can i replace it with a window list?
<BigRedS> when the main feature is 'is not X, Y or Z' i get a bit skeptical... :)
<mungojerry> the dock is plank
<mungojerry> (non mono)
<bashrc> gnu is not unix
<NET||abuse> yay,, got synergy 1.4.10 from getdeb, works a treat
<BigRedS> bashrc: exactly!
<ali1234> does the dock work well? does it correctly tell the difference between java windows?
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> is the dock always stuck to the left hand side?
<ali1234> it's on the bottom by default
<ali1234> basically elementary looks exatly like OS X
<bashrc> innovative
<bashrc> eesh
<bashrc> that sounds like an antifeature
<ali1234> if you're going to copy something at least copy it exactly
<mungojerry> just try it guys
<bashrc> coppies of other OSs are boring
<ali1234> what i can't stand is when developers copy something and then say "oh but i can do better" and then make something much worse which is only superficially the same thing
<ali1234> >_>
<CaMason> *cough* unity
<ali1234> (that's me looking sideways at unity)
<bashrc> if it looks exactly like OSX then you might as well just use OSX and cut out the middle OS
<mungojerry> all the apps have been written from scratch for a integrated set of apps
<CaMason> due to the current Virtualbox 3D bug, I've had to go back to gnome classic... and I've found it quite refreshing
<ali1234> integrated apps are pointless if you do not use them
<BigRedS> party like it's 2003
<CaMason> lol BigRedS
<ali1234> do they have integrated text editor and terminal? and what does that even mean?
<ali1234> integrated gcc?
<CaMason> I have an integrated washing machine
<CaMason> I'm not ever sure what that means.
<ali1234> "integrated" "apps" only makes sense for a certain class of software
<bashrc> as opposed to a disintegrated one?
<directhex> "integrated" differential equations
<BigRedS> it means it's hard to stop using itband startvusing something else
<ali1234> that class being PIM/social network/photos/sharing
<bashrc> you're stuck with it
<CaMason> BigRedS, yes, indeed.
<BigRedS> like gnome's integrated chat and proxy config...
<ali1234> i saw a post somewhere the other day
<CaMason> I saw a post too
<ali1234> some guy was like "i wasn't sure about unity but my 3 year old picked it up straight away so it must be because i am just used to the old ways"
<ali1234> right. and certainly not because you use a computer for different tasks than a 3 year old
<bashrc> can a 3 year old install the proprietary drivers?
<ali1234> good question
<BigRedS> i've been slightly embarrased to find Unity absolutely fine recently
<ali1234> the answer is probably, if they mash the <input device> enough
<CaMason> I don't mind unit, apart from the 'start menu'
<BigRedS> i think i've run out of gnome shell installs
<CaMason> I love the program search... if I type 'Net', I see NetBeans... if I type 'NetB' or 'Net B', it's nowhere to be found :|
<ali1234> but this is the issue: unity is good if you are mindlessly wasting time on facebook and youtube. search is great for this. it can provide endless distractions for your inner 3 year old.
<ali1234> if you are actually trying to do a specific task it is awful.
<BigRedS> i find unity fine for work
<CaMason> I really dislike the global bar thing
<CaMason> forgot who I was talking to yesterday about it
<BigRedS> it used to be impossible to work on but either it has changed or i have in the past 18 months or so
<ali1234> unity is just about passable if you are a coder and can just open a terminal and then do everything in that
<ali1234> you might just as well be using a VT in that case
<BigRedS> i'm a sysadmin; i need a shell and an im client...
<NET||abuse> ubuntu restricted extras is still a thing?
<bashrc> yes
<NET||abuse> worth doing?
<bashrc> depends
<NET||abuse> well that's the question, what's the pro's/cons?
<bashrc> the pros would be if you have files in proprietary formats which you want to play
<NET||abuse> ok
<NET||abuse> i have that :0
<bashrc> the cons would be unsupported binary blobs containing who knows what and possible security issues
<NET||abuse> hmm, well, it's something i just have to live with unfortunately,
<BigRedS> heh. i've just enjoyed realising that i don't need that and then been saddened to realise that it's because my music is even more closed...
<daubers> The con would be Richard Stallman breathing down your neck for using "evil" things. But you're probably doing that by using Ubuntu anyway, or just breathing or something
<NET||abuse> video audio and ebook formats, hardware drivers web video and document standards, it's a harsh world.
<CaMason> "HOW DARE YOU USE THAT EVIL SOFTWARE?!?!" -Send from my iPad
<NET||abuse> Your being negative in the freedom dimension!
<bashrc> the problem with unsupported binaries is that (1) they're unsupported and (2) they could potentially contain any kind of malware or security holes
<bashrc> heh
<bashrc> Lunduke ftw
<NET||abuse> he's a bit of a cocky guy, but i like brian
<NET||abuse> he made that podcast lively
<bashrc> he did
<bashrc> it's still good though.  Excellent production quality
<NET||abuse> chris is continuing with matt, and their research and content is very very good , better even than when it was brian and chris. but still miss the crazy humour
<mungojerry> i haven't watched/listened any podcast for last 9 months, used to listen to uupc and LAS every show
<mungojerry> but i tried LAS the other day for their 12.10 review
<bashrc> liked the recent one on home server security
<NET||abuse> yeh, the home server one was packed with info
<mungojerry> they got a bit ranty with chris and bri
<bashrc> still probably one of the top linux podcasts
<mungojerry> it's not hard
<knightdroid> Meeeeurnin
<czajkowski> BigRedS: where be you?
<popey> front row
<popey> i see him
<popey> well
<popey> i see his hair
<czajkowski> oh indeed
<CaMason> you all sat at UDS?
<davmor2> CaMason: No I'm sat at home
<NET||abuse> boy oh boy, just remembered, does mta-tools have a way of integrating with nautilus?
<NET||abuse> as in, can i connect to my android devices easily now in 12.10?
<NET||abuse> does the mta protocol work finally?
<NET||abuse> i'm trying it and i get ntohing in nautilus.
<NET||abuse> sorry, mtp-tools
<NET||abuse> durr
<SuperMatt> it works, it just doesn't work very well
<NET||abuse> such a drag, why is this hard?
<SuperMatt> I get error messages, but if I ignore them everything is fine
<NET||abuse> will it only communicate with an sdcard?
<NET||abuse> really want to push some stuff up onto the nexus7
<SuperMatt> only what's onboard, not what you put in, I believe
<NET||abuse> ah, well that' fine as n7 doesnt have extra, and phone didn't put a sd card into it.
<NET||abuse> still, is there some extra packages i need?
<NET||abuse> ohh, just had some luck on nexus7 with gmtp
<NET||abuse> nice
<SuperMatt> cooll
<SuperMatt> wow, I'm just leafing through some books about windows 8, and it seems the instructions in those are so poorly laid out, that no users has any real chance of being able to read them
<lornajane> I did an event in a microsoft office recently.  I got my laptop out and they went "yay, a PC" and then I opened the lid and they went ".... oh"
<SuperMatt> and it's really silly seeing the screenshots jump between notro, the classic desktop, and the classic desktop with bits of notro shackled to it
<mgdm> I have Win8 as of the weekend
<mgdm> so far... well, it's not vista
<SuperMatt> me too
<SuperMatt> it's a confused mess
<mgdm> yes, but it's not vista! :-)
<lornajane> I pointed out that I have the windows 7 *sticker* on it.  They were not placated :)
<SuperMatt> I would take vista over 8.
<mgdm> lornajane: what environment is it you use? LXDE or some such...?
<BigRedS> heh. every free software confrrence has a laptop/projector provlem...
<lornajane> mgdm: well ... I installed mint with LXDE but it drove me a bit mad in places
<lornajane> so I put XFCE on as well and use that instead
<mgdm> Ah ha
<lornajane> it's almost xubuntu, but not quite
<lornajane> and I still don't have everything right, so annoying
<SuperMatt> I so very much love unity
<lornajane> my terminal can't beep visually
<lornajane> SuperMatt: I expected to love unity, and didn't.  And I'm only running a web browser, skype, and an infinite number of terminal windows ... so it doesn't really matter
<popey> haha lornajane
<directhex> i saw the Windows 8 Problem well articulated
<directhex> it feels like two OSes munged together. badly.
<mgdm> Yeah, with a certain amount of gaffer tape
<directhex> pritt stick.
<davmor2> directhex: ping
<directhex> hm?
<davmor2> directhex: what's the issue you are having with torchlight and psychonauts I figure it might be easier here than on twitter feel free to dm me to save boring the channel if you want
<directhex> torchlight still lacks the ability to display both headgear and heads at the same time
<directhex> psychonauts still can't display animated textures, meaning every level right from basic braining looks worse than running the windows version on minimum detail
<directhex> heh, now psychonauts doesn't even run
<directhex> /opt/psychonauts/psychonauts.sh: line 4:  4842 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. force_s3tc_enable=true ./Psychonauts
<davmor2> directhex: Yeah I noticed the head and headgear issue on torchlight, http://www.torchlightgame.com/support/ and for psychonuats  http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewforum/6/  if you let the devs know the issues might get resolved please add the fact you got it via the HIB and you are on Ubuntu.  Hopefully that will get stuff fixed then
<directhex> davmor2, they're well known issues. i think the linux porters' contracts expired. so no more fixes.
<ali1234> i see an update for torchlight but update manage won't install it
<ali1234> still waiting for directhex to tell me psychonauts "actually works now"
<directhex> can't even run it anymore. dunno if that's a precise issue, or generally
<ali1234> works for me
<Azelphur> whelp, my data center sunk.
<Azelphur> :<
<ali1234> once you run it you cannot quit the game until you've made a character and gone through a tiresome tutorial "move the mouse up to look up!"
<ali1234> which is completely retarded game design
<shauno> Azelphur: I'm picturing you in a neon-orange inflatable raft, clutching a 2U
<Azelphur> shauno: indeed :(
<ali1234> Azelphur: my websites are hosted in the EU
<Azelphur> ali1234: fun :)
<shauno> Azelphur: are they actually hit?  or just lost utilities
<Azelphur> shauno: the grid is down and the generator room flooded
<shauno> that's not so bad; a fairly recoverable position
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> I don't expect it to be back for a while though
<shauno> my issue tracker looks like a measels outbreak atm
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/2r0U2X3h0u0s   where the metric is sites similar to what you describe
<diplo> evening all
<nucc1> does anyone else find that the "dynamic" scrollbars interfer with window resizing sometimes?
<MartijnVdS> I turned them off for that reason
<nucc1> ah, onto google to find out how to turn them off. i didn't know i could
<nucc1> nice, i can turn off global menu too :)
<nucc1> bit of a pain to use on multiple monitors
<MartijnVdS> s/a bit//
<nucc1> he he. i was being polite
<AlanBell> hope this UDS they come up with some stuff that people will be excited to keep
<nucc1> hardware support sounds good to me :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Steam falls into that category, doesn't it?
<AlanBell> not for me :)
<nucc1> i wish they would keep the kernel stable so that vmware would be usable too :p
<ali1234> nucc1: yes, i've reported that bug with scrollbars
<AlanBell> DRM encumbered toys \o/
<ali1234> especially when reszing a window that has panels.. they fixed it for the outer window edge
<ali1234> bug 907837
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: vmware? Why? kvm + libvirt++
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 907837 in overlay-scrollbar (Ubuntu) "Scrollbars - difficult to resize panels with 12.04 overlay scrollbar" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907837
<AlanBell> HUD is really cool for web apps
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, the stuff i need is works only with vmware or hyperv
<AlanBell> I just normally turn it off because it steals the alt key from VMs
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: you need the wrong things then ;)
<ali1234> turn off ALL the things!
<AlanBell> yeah :(
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, he he
<AlanBell> people turn off the amazon lens, the dash as a whole, the window buttons, the scrollbars, the global menu, the alt-tab switcher
<AlanBell> and even in full fanboi mode I fail to get excited by any of those things
<MartijnVdS> I use focus-follows-mouse, I only use the alt-tab thing rarely
<nucc1> i use gnome-shell, and disable the "workspaces only on primary" thing.
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: gnome-shell, isn't that where "they" decided you should have one app per workspace
<nucc1> maybe i'm an outlier
<nucc1> it actuall works pretty well for me
<ali1234> not around here
<nucc1> kind of a neat way to keep things organised.
<nucc1> now, i just go to a new workspace when i want to start something new
<directhex> jesus. upgraded to 12.10 today. i keep seeing random textures float around the screen
<AlanBell> workspaces ended up quite good in shell, they are vertical and it adds more as you need them
<nucc1> ^^
<ali1234> AlanBell: elementary does that too
<AlanBell> I don't much like the 2d grid of workspaces in unity
<ali1234> except horizontally
<ali1234> not that it makes a difference
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I like how you can get to every space with just one key combo
<AlanBell> vertical or horizontal is fine for me, I liked the cube
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: instead of having to scroll past something else every time
<AlanBell> ok, I understand that logic
<nucc1> personally, i trade brain memory for time.
<nucc1> i scroll through every workspace in turn looking for the one i want
<nucc1> i hate remembering stuff
<shauno> Azelphur: a lot of them will do better than you'd think.  we have a site with a note on their UPS to say that it's illegible for factory warranty because it was fully submerged during katrina.  but it's still running.  (and these are large-scale systems, not rackmount units)
<Darael> My laptop has a numpad, so I use a 3x3 workspace grid and bind them to ctl+alt+<number-in-appropriate-position>.  Then I have certain things that always go on certain workspaces so if there's anything I need to find there are fewer to look through.
<Azelphur> shauno: damn
<Darael> And I stick expo on ctl+alt+0 just in case.
<nucc1> my favourite thing in ubuntu actually is the fonts (nicely anti-aliased) and the software centre.
<nucc1> i like how they are turning it into a proper app store. something that linux pioneered, but Apple monetized
<AlanBell> yeah, I like the font, the webapps stuff, the HUD (if it stops stealing alt from VMs), lenses
<AlanBell> I am not interested in the software centre really, I might get interested if they do some kind of group management thing with it
<AlanBell> so you can purchase and deploy an application for multiple computers
<nucc1> if they make the ubuntu one thing a proper backup solution, with reasonable prices for storage, then that too.
<nucc1> AlanBell, well, i see what you mean
<ali1234> AlanBell: like when you go on google play and click "send to my phone" and it's already on your phone in seconds
<ali1234> i love that feature
<AlanBell> that is cool
<diplo> Writing my first wordpress theme :)
<AlanBell> but I was thinking more of an office IT scenario
<diplo> Any tips from anyone ?
<ali1234> and speaking of the ubuntu font i found it in the weirdest place
<AlanBell> kind of landscape integration with the software center probably
<nucc1> AlanBell, that is not exactly an end-user feature though :p
<nucc1> ali1234, the font is in google fonts. many people use it, i believe
<AlanBell> nucc1: well depends on what your target market is
<AlanBell> it isn't a feature for the "teenagers at home" market certainly
<nucc1> AlanBell, i would like for ubuntu to remain a user-centric rather than an enterprise-focused product
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: but enterprises bring in the ships of money
<ali1234> ubuntu font is used in a fairly common bitcoin logo
<AlanBell> yeah, most stuff is consumer focussed
<ali1234> i don't know why...
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, well, that was before users were given the option to pay for it
<nucc1> in most enterprises, "lync and outlook" are what determine the platform of choice.
<AlanBell> if it is consumer focussed there isn't really much opportunity for consultancy around it :)
<AlanBell> you get app developers (mostly games and stuff)
<AlanBell> and thats it
<nucc1> ubuntu is wisely going in the services direction
<nucc1> music, storage, and maybe movies :)
<AlanBell> services for Canonical only though :)
<nucc1> i don't really make a distinction. it makes my life easier :p
<nucc1> no canonical, no ubuntu. or at least, a much less exciting ubuntu
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> but no commercial partner ecosystem
<ali1234> you know what occured to me the other day
<ali1234> the way we can tell that linux is successful
<AlanBell> just canonical doing b2c services
<ali1234> it's because of all the people who showed up to tell us we're doing it wrong
<AlanBell> yeah, I guess so
<nucc1> AlanBell, i've come to believe that linux is too much of a moving target, and that's why the commercial partner ecosystem is scanty
<nucc1> ali1234, that is a pretty one-sided picture
<ali1234> how is it one sided?
<nucc1> the way we're doing it has its joys, but it is a problem when you actually have to get work done
<AlanBell> don't think it is really, they don't really want a channel, the target market is consumers via OEMs
<ali1234> the way i see it is like this
<nucc1> ali1234, that explains why most of the more successful linuxes are pretty much static
<AlanBell> I guess they like the apple app store developers and want to build a network like that
<ali1234> back in 1993 when linux actually was unusable for the majority of people, nobody cared
<ali1234> nobody complained that linux was too hard for them
<ali1234> nobody complained that there was too much sexism in open source
<ali1234> nobody complained about anything in fact
<ali1234> because they were too busy building the future
<ali1234> now all the hard work has been done, everyone suddenly wants their fair share
<ali1234> now i don't wanna sound like mitt romney
<nucc1> lol
<ali1234> but this is how you can tell that linux is now established
<nucc1> meanwhile, i'm sitting here, with a windows partition because i can't get much work done in linux for one reason or the other.
<nucc1> this weekend, my RDP client froze my PC cold.
<nucc1> needed a power cycle.
<nucc1> of course i booted into windows.
<nucc1> i need to recompile vmware modules every week
<ali1234> i haven't used a real windows install for nearly 15 years
<AlanBell> I don't really have a complaint as such, Ubuntu works fine for me
<nucc1> for playing music and browsing the web, it works fine.
<AlanBell> it just isn't strategic for the business at all
<nucc1> for doing web development, and programming in C, or even Java, it works okay
<ali1234> nucc1: you're talking about windows right?
<nucc1> surprisingly, i'm talking about all the linuxes i've had to use in the last few years
<nucc1> all that "stable" stuff is hogwash.
<ali1234> linux has always been superior to windows for software development since day 1
<nucc1> i use windows 7 daily too. it's never crashed on me.
<ali1234> literally it blows it out of the water
<nucc1> i had to log into a VT last night in order to "killall gnome-shell"
<ali1234> windows is a sea of incompatible legacy poop
<nucc1> rhetoric
<nucc1> empty rhetoric.
<ali1234> no, it's an absolute fact
<ali1234> it's the reason i have not used windows in 15 years
<nucc1> i like linux. else i won't be using it. but many of the claims about linux are greatly exaggerated.
<ali1234> it simply isn't possible to get a straight answer on anything related to the windows api
<nucc1> you can use QT.
<nucc1> you can use GTK.
<ali1234> no, you can't, because qt relies on windows api
<nucc1> wxwidgets etc.
<ali1234> maybe you can answer this question. if a network adapter in windows has two IP addresses, and i write a program which listens on a tcp docket, which ip address will it listen on?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: depends on which one you bind to?
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> the actual answer is it picks one at random
<MartijnVdS> even if you explicitly select one?
<ali1234> if you explicitly select 0.0.0.0 then yes
<nucc1> ali1234, now you see, most developers will sort that stuff out before they ship the software out to the user.
<ali1234> there is no way to sort it out, it's simply broken, and even worse, completely undocumented
<nucc1> so how does apache work then?
<nucc1> on windows?
<nucc1> never had no troubles with it
<ali1234> simple
<nucc1> i'm all ears
<ali1234> just don't run it on a machine with mutltiple IP addresses
<nucc1> lol.
<nucc1> did you know that if you have both wifi and ethernet plugged and connected, linux is unable to route packets properly?
<shauno> thanks to ipv6, it's been a while since I've met a machine with one address
<nucc1> somehow windows is able to chose one default route
<ali1234> lol
<nucc1> now that's stuff that I run into frequently.
<ali1234> that's not true at all, i do it regularly
<nucc1> forgetting to turn off my wifi when i dock my laptop
<nucc1> on windows, i can go the whole day without knowing
<ali1234> not only does it work, it works completely as you would expect, without any user interaction at all
<nucc1> on linux, i know straight away
<nucc1> because i lose internet connectivity
<AlanBell> nucc1: yeah, I have a feeling we broke something in 12.10 around that
<nucc1> ali1234, my flatmate was playing music from is windows laptop to the living room sound system
<nucc1> i spent 3 hours trying to get rygel and pulseaudio to do the same
<nucc1> wanna guess how i finally succeeded?
<ali1234> rygel the upnp server?
<nucc1> I got a free app for my android phone  and streamed from my phone instead.
<ali1234> i think the problem is you failed to understand basic concepts of how upnp works
<ali1234> but, whatever
<nucc1> he he he.
<nucc1> i don't want to know the nitty gritty of upnp.
<nucc1> i would gladly pay for an app that just works.
<ali1234> http://www.twonky.com/
<nucc1> now tell me, will twonky let me transfer a playing movie to my TV?
<ali1234> "i spent 3 hours trying to make my car run on milk. i shouldn't have to know the nitty gritty of combustion engines, it should just work"
<ali1234> ^ this is you
<nucc1> any audio stream off my laptop to the home theatre?
<nucc1> ali1234, very funny. also completely wrong.
<nucc1> i got the device to show up in the list of available servers
<ali1234> upnp doesn't work like that. at all
<nucc1> but never could get the sound to play.
<nucc1> now, on my phone, i just installed an app.
<nucc1> selected a source, selected a target.
<nucc1> i've learnt to choose my fights.
<nucc1> that's why i still use linux :p
<ali1234> i have also learnt to choose my fights. people like you are the reason i don't ever recommend linux to anyone any more.
<nucc1> i'm actually a techie.
<ali1234> yeah techies are the worst
<nucc1> so no. i'm not your stereotypical dumb windows user.
<nucc1> you are blaming me for not understanding upnp/dlna when the software isn't working as it should?
<nucc1> bleh
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: moving a playing movie from one device to another isn't upnp
<nucc1> dlna
<nucc1> i just call it upnp
<nucc1> cos somehow that name stuck
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: what you want is Miracast
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, dlna does that too
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: dlna has some kind of "browsing" mode, and a "play this stream" mode, but almost nothing supports the second mode
<nucc1> yea "play this stream" .
<MartijnVdS> Yes.. "this DLNA URL"
<nucc1> i mean, on my samsung, i can say "transfer this video to this screen"
<MartijnVdS> Woo! Chromebook has shipped
<nucc1> on my phone that is.
<ali1234> that's the difference between a server and a controller
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: sure, but does your playback device support it?
<ali1234> rygel is not a controller
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, yeap. my tv does. it works all the time. moving videos and music from my phone to my tv.
<nucc1> what i wanted rygel+pulseaudio to do was: present what is playing on the local soundcard as a stream on the network
<nucc1> then connect to that stream from the home theatre
<ali1234> rygel only serves files
<ali1234> because it is a server
<nucc1> rygel+pulseaudio can serve streams.
<ali1234> news to me
<MartijnVdS> but not video streams..
<nucc1> i wasn't trying to do video.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it can do airplay-like streams using Apple's protocol
<nucc1> just music from rhythmbox
<nucc1> because the interface on the HT and TV is horrible for anything bigger than 20 files
<ali1234> yeah there's some stuff about this on the rygel development page. says it doesn't work
<nucc1> interestingly, even browsing what is exported from rygel on the tv and then playing it leads to unbelievable stutter
<nucc1> i've not had time to troubleshoot that.
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: over wifi, or wired?
<nucc1> all wired.
<nucc1> gigabit.
<MartijnVdS> Because my TV stutters if I use wifi to stream from my Synology ANS
<nucc1> well, the tv probably isn't gigabit.
<MartijnVdS> NAS
<MartijnVdS> my TV is
<MartijnVdS> weirdly
<nucc1> cool
<ali1234> you can share the individual files on rygel and then use a controller on another device to queue them
<MartijnVdS> it's also 300mbit 802.11n dual-band
<nucc1> mine's just 100mbps lan
<nucc1> and a usb port for wifi
<nucc1> which is empty.
<ali1234> you shouldn't get stutter when streaming mp3 over wifi
<ali1234> more likely it's a codec issue
<ali1234> upnp does not specify anything about audio video formats, which is why interop is so poor
<nucc1> must be a default setting in the ubuntu rygel
<MartijnVdS> or a "live" re-encoding issue with minimal buffer?
<ali1234> well, one reason anyway
<nucc1> my HT at least plays almost everything, including ogg.
<nucc1> its a panasonic.
<nucc1> unless rygel has been transcoding the oggs silently
<ali1234> yeah but it might not support every possible bitrate
<MartijnVdS> my Samsung also plays all the things
<MartijnVdS> the PS3 is a lot worse, format-support wise
<ali1234> upnp server usually does not transcode but it might
<nucc1> yea, but the ps3 does better with video, i've found
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: only .mp4 for me
<MartijnVdS> no mkv, only very specific mp4 settings
<MartijnVdS> h.264 settings, even
<nucc1> yea, most devices won't play mkv through the network
<MartijnVdS> also container bits (frame rate, bit rates) must be spot on or you'll get audio at double speed
<MartijnVdS> my TV will :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Samsung
<nucc1> generally, rygel does transcoding, and does reasonably well.
<nucc1> it only started acting up when i did a 12.10 clean install.
<nucc1> maybe i will have time to fiddle with it this weekend
<ali1234> seems like 12.10 is broken for everyone
<ali1234> i'm glad i didn't install it
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, how is the samsung TV's interface?
<nucc1> my panasonic is horrible.
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: it's OK
<nucc1> when browsing a list, it doesn't remember your position in the previous page
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: I'd love it to work better with my Samsung phone..
<ali1234> there's a samsung app
<nucc1> the panasonic app was designed by picasso or something.
<ali1234> i think it's just a remote control replacement though
<nucc1> they are more concerned with fancy looks than usability
<nucc1> and it doesn't even look good. has some useless "retro" styles
<nucc1> and "dials"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that works fine, too
<nucc1> imagine that. dials on a touchscreen.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but it's useless to me, as I have a Logitech Harmony
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, i've got a samsung galaxy s3, but i've never seen this miracast thing mentioned any where on thephone
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: Miracast is in Android 4.2, it's the new standard for this kind of thing
<nucc1> yea, i saw that, but then i saw that the gs3 is certified too
<nucc1> oh well, its not like my tv will magically support it
<nucc1> i'm tempted to ditch the gs3 and get the new nexus
<MartijnVdS> I'm keeping my current  Nexus
<MartijnVdS> (Galaxy Nexus)
<nucc1> yea, i wish i had a nexus.
<brobostigon> ell, unless i win the lottery tmrw, i doubt i will be able to afford the Â£500 quid, or so, however much one costs unclocked.
<nucc1> an unlocked one is less than Â£300
<brobostigon> ok.
<nucc1> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_4_16gb
<nucc1> Â£279 for 16GB
<nucc1> I reckon samsung will have to drop its own prices soon...
<brobostigon> thats actually better than i thought it would be.
<MartijnVdS> No devices for .nl :(
<nucc1> patience, MartijnVdS :)
<MartijnVdS> Well, http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B009RF0AQ8 is on its way to me
<nucc1> you guys get all the fast internets
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: I'll get 100/100 next month
<nucc1> just look at that
<nucc1> :(
<nucc1> i'll keep getting 9/1 next month
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: though it might be 500/500 within a year
<nucc1> :'(
<MartijnVdS> just to annoy the (max 300mbit) cable ISPs
<nucc1> you guys even get it symmetric too.
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: we get fibre into our homes
<nucc1> good stuff, really.
<MartijnVdS> So we just get ethernet converters'
<MartijnVdS> and then we get the internet on a VLAN and TV on another VLAN
<nucc1> he he.
<MartijnVdS> (and for some ISPs, voip on a third)
<nucc1> i may soon be able to get 40/8 or so soon.
<nucc1> FTTC
<MartijnVdS> They stopped FTTC rollout when they started FttH rollout
<MartijnVdS> and I've been waiting for 2 years(!) now
<nucc1> yea, none of that fancy stuff over here :p
<MartijnVdS> 15/1 now
<tom1210> wlan connection problems ... anyone willing to advise?
<nucc1> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<tom1210> samsung notebook broadcom chip wlan not connecting ... connects but no dhcp
<nucc1> if you assign a manual ip address, does it work?
<tom1210> no
<nucc1> no? correct ip and netmask and gateway ?
<tom1210> it used to work, and still does with live usb
<nucc1> hmmm
<nucc1> what does tail /var/log/syslog say just after you attempt to connect?
<nucc1> you can do:
<nucc1> tail -f /var/log/syslog
<nucc1> in a terminal, then try to connect see what it says in there
<nucc1> i wonder how one would check if all required drivers are loaded
<tom1210> nucc1 back
<tom1210> sorry i had to disconnect the reatec usb dongle
<nucc1> oh. i have join/part messages hidden :p
<nucc1> where did i lose you?
<tom1210> am trying to get useful tail info ...
<nucc1> try dmesg | tail     as well
<MartijnVdS> \o/ /var/log/kern.log
<nucc1> yea, better idea probably
<nucc1> tail /var/log/kern.log
<nucc1> tail -f /var/log/kern.log
<tom1210> yes .... not easy .... will disconnect the realtek dongle then see what i get brb
<Darael> tailf works just as well as tail -f.  For reference.
<nucc1> good one
<MartijnVdS> does it work when the file rotates?
<MartijnVdS> like tail -F?
<tom1210> ok nucc1 back
<tom1210> i will pastebin those two commands
<Darael> MartijnVdS: according to the manpage, no.  But on the other hand it doesn't access the file when it isn't growing, which means if one is monitoring an infrequently-updated log the disk could potentially spin down.
<MartijnVdS> I wonder how it does that
<tom1210> ucc1 http://pastebin.com/cPYFyB0s
<MartijnVdS> ah, inotify!
<nucc1> tom1210, is it 7pm where you are?
<nucc1> probably 9am
<tom1210> http://pastebin.com/xq0cfFG5
<tom1210> i am in australia
<nucc1> nothing useful there.
<tom1210> wonder what that vinagre segfault is
<nucc1> vinagre crashed
<nucc1> if you run lspci, what does it say your wifi chip is?
<tom1210> hmmm i installed vinagre about the time the problems started
<nucc1> i doubt they are related.
<tom1210> ok
<nucc1> were you using vinagre at around 8pm yesterday?
<tom1210> 02:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4313 802.11b/g/n Wireless LAN Controller (rev 01)
<tom1210> its possible
<tom1210> i will remove vinagre anyway
<nucc1> http://askubuntu.com/questions/207585/wireless-bluetooth-bcm4313-not-working-ubuntu-12-10
<nucc1> tom1210, this is probably more relevant http://askubuntu.com/questions/127633/how-do-i-get-a-broadcom-bcm4313-wireless-card-working
<nucc1> anthough a bit dated
<nucc1> you should first check for restricted drivers
<nucc1> try running the restricted drivers manager see if it suggests any installs for you.
<tom1210> i will run through that and come back ... thank you nucc1
<tom1210> nucc1 ... amazing ... i uninstalled vinagre andit all works again
<nucc1> interesting
<nucc1> lol. "sorry, ubuntu 12.10 has experienced an internal error"
<nucc1> it says nautilus-shell-search -provider crashed
<nucc1> all i did was search "vinagre" in the shell overview
<nucc1> oh well, i don't notice it missing.
<nucc1> hmmm, i'm trying to make libreoffice show a presentation without taking over both my screens
<tom1210> i use vnc a lot
<nucc1> tom1210, try remmina or so
#ubuntu-uk 2012-10-31
<diplo> Morning all
<BigRedS> Good Morning!
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> morning czajkowski!
<czajkowski> christel: danish likes to draw lines in their Os
<czajkowski> very odd trying toread it
<christel> hehe
<christel> have you found time to do some SHOPPING yet?
<christel> i love shopping in denmark
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<christel> morning AlarmBell, MooDoo :)
<theopensourcerer> Gosh, just getting up everyone?
<czajkowski> christel: narp
<czajkowski> dealing with the ikea soft beds!
<christel> auchies
<czajkowski> very much so
 * christel hugs czz
<NET||abuse> woow, after the initial nvidia mess, i'm honestly quite happy with my 12.10 experience
<NET||abuse> think my beefy laptop is pretty well suited to handle any UI load.
<NET||abuse> Though i'm not really feeling the pain of any lens search stuff, one thing, alt key is triggering run commands all the time.
<NET||abuse> and i use alt alot for other thing.
<NET||abuse> s
<AlanBell> just listened to the audio of the shopping lens discussion yesterday
<daubers> AlanBell: anything interesting?
<AlanBell> well I am trying not to care about it
<AlanBell> just think the implementation of the privacy setting is so terrible
<daubers> Yup :) You can have ALL OF THE THINGS or NONE OF THE THINGS!!!!!
<AlanBell> it is massively worse than any perceived problem with the lens itself
<AlanBell> well you can turn off all the lenses shipped by default in an undocumented way
<AlanBell> but it has zero effect on any lens written to the API
<oimon> does anyone else have problems with chrome going crazy and taking over the whole system ? it's taken me 20 mins of ctrl-alt-f1, iotop and top and pkill to get a working desktop
<NET||abuse> oimon: it was on fedora, but previously ive had chromium and chrome just get stuck in full screen
<popey> i stopped using chrome, eats too much cpu
<oimon> firefox eats RAM, can't win
<popey> i use chromium now
<oimon> i keep thinking my DE is buggy but i think it's the browsers are getting more bloaty
<NET||abuse> popey: i can't free myself from their inspector ;) too useful for dev work
<AlanBell> I use chromium and firefox (firebug ftw)
<oimon> is chromium updated again now? was higly insecure before
<AlanBell> NET||abuse: what bit of inspector do you like over firebug?
<NET||abuse> AlanBell: i don't know if there's anything firebug does that i can't do just as wel or better in inspector
<popey> Version 20.0.1132.47 Ubuntu 12.04 (144678)
<popey> thats what i am on
<NET||abuse> AlanBell: well for js debugging i just fine inspector is much nicer, context on console.log's allowing me to traverse objects so easily
<AlanBell> interesting, I use it a bit
<AlanBell> I find firebug easier for some reason, especially poking at CSS, but I suspect it is not anything particularly rational
<AlanBell> I probably just like the colours better :)
<NET||abuse> AlanBell: yeh, there was that when i made the switch over from firebug
<NET||abuse> found chrome inspector a bit confusing.
<NET||abuse> now it's the reverse
<NET||abuse> just tried logging a date in firebug and inspector. the difference is presentation really
<NET||abuse> Chrome shows me the actual value of a date object,
<AlanBell> too much red in chromium inspector :)
<NET||abuse> firebug shows me the same date info but links it to an empty object.
<oimon> chromium on ubuntu was at v18 for ages, with some security vulnerabilities
<NET||abuse> i find firefox muuuuch slower though
<oimon> chrome stable is at v22, haven't checked the bugs since v20 though
<oimon> chromium i experienced the same system shag FWIW
<AlanBell> NET||abuse: I can't find a box model layout thing in inspector
<NET||abuse> hmm? box model layout?
<AlanBell> select a div and visually set size, padding, border, margin
<NET||abuse> oh the visual box showing measurements?
<AlanBell> yeah, layout tab in firebug
<DJones> Is anybody using xchat 2.8.8 (not gnome-xchat), do you get a userlist on the right of the screen
<oimon> DJones, yes
<DJones> Strange, I haven't gone one and can't find a way to switch it on
<oimon> settings-> prefs-> user list-> show at right , upper
<DJones> Yep thats set, just changed to right lower to see if that makes a difference
<oimon> view->user list
<DJones> Also ticked
<DJones> Still nothing, 2 different networks
<DJones> Ah, got one now
<DJones> But only if set to appear on the left
<DJones> oimon: Can you get the list to appear on the right hand side? Upper right/left?
<oimon> yes
<oimon> i can switch sides
<DJones> Very odd, ah well, not a problem, left will do for me, if anything thats better because it takes up less space
<DJones> Thanks for checking and the suggestion
<oimon> DJones, move to right, and hover, looking for a resize arrow
<oimon> it's possible to resize down to nothing
<oimon> look for the = symbol on the right
<DJones> Thanks, that found it
<oimon> \o/
<diplo> theopensourcerer: Had many candidates for the job ?
<theopensourcerer> 5 and a 1/2 so far I think.
<Neoti_Desktop> any one in here from BT, if so whats the problems in the area 01491? or sould someone in this area advise if they have ADSL problems ?
<oimon> theopensourcerer, link?
<theopensourcerer> oimon: http://www.libertus.co.uk/about-us/jobs/7-free-software-engineer
<christel> and a half? :)
<theopensourcerer> lol
<christel> is that where they beg you to pay them only half? :P
<theopensourcerer> Yes - someone who *might* be interested. Wants to come and have a chat with us first. That's fine. he's an interesting candidate for a number of reasons.
<oimon> posted to linux jobs list too?
<christel> :)
<AlanBell> yes
<theopensourcerer> oimon: link?
<AlanBell> I did already theopensourcerer
<theopensourcerer> OK AlanBell
<christel> AlanBell spammed all the things ;)
<AlanBell> hmm, I thought I did :)
<Gargoyle> morning
<Gargoyle> any munin users around?
<SuperMatt> soy
<SuperMatt> I mean, yes
<diplo> I'd be totally interested if I was closer, and maybe a few more pennies :)
<SuperMatt> I went spanish for a second there
<Gargoyle> I've hit a wall trying to get munun running on 12.10 + nginx
<SuperMatt> righto
<AlanBell> salary is a guidance to set expectations, if someone thinks they are worth more (or less) they are welcome to try and convince us of that :)
<SuperMatt> ah, nginx... hmm
<SuperMatt> Does nginx use php?? I don't know
<Gargoyle> Seems to be generating the html OK. But I can't seem to get graph links to work.
<SuperMatt> I mean munin
<SuperMatt> does munin use php?
<AlanBell> theopensourcerer: I subscribed to the linuxjobs list to post it, but it doesn't appear to have reached the list archives
<Gargoyle> nope. It's all pearl based I think
<SuperMatt> hurm
<SuperMatt> I must confess I've never done it
<oimon> i posted to the linuxjobs list for a job before, and the applications i received from those guys were somewhat...interesting
<SuperMatt> http://munin-monitoring.org/wiki/CgiHowto2 <- have you followed this?
<Gargoyle> SuperMatt: Yeah. I just get Bad Gateway
<SuperMatt> http://munin.readthedocs.org/en/latest/example/webserver/nginx.html or this?
<SuperMatt> hurm, I don't know really
<Gargoyle> SuperMatt: Woo hoo!
<SuperMatt> It's not something I can spend any time on today trying to figure out
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> something worked
 * Gargoyle gives SuperMatt a gold star!
<SuperMatt> ta
<Gargoyle> 1 line not in all the other docs I found that explicity says permissions are fubar on Ubuntu!
<SuperMatt> :>
<daubers> GAH!
<daubers> I'm about 2 seconds away from removing whoopsie and throwing it in the bin!
<popey> wassup?
<SuperMatt> Is whoopsie that thing that keeps tracks of applications crashing?
<popey> its the thing that uploads crashdumps to launchpad
<daubers> popey: It tell's me an error has occured, I tell it to go away, so it pops up and tells me an error has occured. Repeat about 15 times
<daubers> I KNOW YOU TOLD ME NOW GO AWAY AND DIE!
<popey> what do you have in /var/crash/* ?
<popey> there is an open bug that it doesn't respect the "i told you this already" button
<daubers> 2 .crashes and 3 .uploads
<popey> for what apps?
<daubers> inkscape and xorg
<popey> sometimes it fails to upload so will ask you again later
<popey> when are they dated?
<daubers> Xorg is yesterday, rest is the last 10 minutes
<popey> rm them all
<daubers> gone
<AlanBell> whoopsie is the "welcome to Ubuntu screen" on first install a bit too often
<popey> whereas in previous releases we never knew when stuff crashed
<popey> at least now we can fix it
<daubers> FFS! GO AWAY AND DIE
<daubers> stupid whoopsie
<daubers> It's now going
<AlanBell> yeah, it serves a purpose
<popey> ah well.
<AlanBell> would be nice to have a "just silently get on with it" option
<AlanBell> especially for things that the user neither knows or cares crashed
<AlanBell> like unity-video-lens or whatever
<shauno> or atleast rate-limit the interaction so it doesn't "no, go away" doesn't become a muscle-memory response
<diplo> yeah I've been getting a lot of whoopsies recently :(
<oimon> diplo, there's a lot going round. my kids had that too :)
<AlanBell> diplo: for things that you know crashed, or just randomly popping up and telling you something crashed that you didn't know about?
<daubers> hooray, whoopsie is no more
<diplo> Bit of both AlanBell
<daubers> stupid poxy thing keep interrupting me
<diplo> and oimon :D
<daubers> GAH! Is there more than one package that controls whoopsie?
<daubers> Damn thing is still going even though I uninstalled it
<popey> the dialog is apport-gtk
<daubers> Gone. Hopefully now it'll leave me in peace
<mgdm> I've switched everything I can find to do with the update manager off but it still pops up every time I boot my machine
<mgdm> never seen whoopsie do anything, though
<SuperMatt> I always change /etc/default/apport to enabled=0 and I never get the silly crash messages
<Myrtti> webapps extension in chromium is still crashing
<Myrtti> after a reinstall
<Myrtti> :-| the biggest dissappointment was how Ubiquity or luks failed with what I wanted to do with my partitions
<Myrtti> tried to create encrypted swap, / and /home partitions, swap and / worked fine but /home couldn't mount on boot because the password was wrong - then again when I ran the live session and mounted /home there, the password was valid
<DJones> Anybody interested in free crossover office? http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20121029/ Being given away today
<popey> SuperMatt, :(
<mgdm> DJones: Hmm I got similar a few years ago
<oimon> DJones, playonlinux is giving me office 2010 quite nicely
<SuperMatt> popey: ?
<DJones> mgdm: Yeah I got that probably around the same time, similar offer, installed it, but then never ended up using it
 * AlanBell reenables /etc/default/apport
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: the idea is that they collate the crash reports and stop the crashers
<popey> if everyone did that we'd never get anything fixed
<AlanBell> if everyone turns it off like I did then they get no reports
<SuperMatt> oh all right
<AlanBell> but I kind of wanted to use my desktop without having popups all the time about obscure background services crashing
<popey> the bugs on errors.ubuntu.com are highly surfaced as things we want to fix in our to-do lists
<AlanBell> figure it is time to turn it back on again now
<DJones> Now, do I set the coffee machine up in the kitchen, or be lazy and set it up in the office to save walking downstairs to get drinks
<SuperMatt> and there's my first error
<DJones> Setting up in the ofice seens a good idea
<popey> SuperMatt, what do you have in /var/crash and how old are the reports?
<popey> i.e. you could rm everything in /var/crash (via sudo) and have a "clean start"
<popey> also SuperMatt what version of ubuntu are you running and do you have a stock ubuntu desktop with all necessary packages installed (sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^)
<SuperMatt> ooh, I only have gwibber crashes
<SuperMatt> and I've actually removed gwibber
<oimon> and gwibber-service removed?
<SuperMatt> I'm running quantal with pretty much everything, except gwibber and gwibber service
<SuperMatt> I don't think I've removed anything else
<oimon> i forgot gwibber existed
<SuperMatt> yup, only gwibber is gone
<oimon> twitter is OK for phones but i never use it on PC
<SuperMatt> because I don't need it with webapps
<ali1234> whoopsie/apport always crashes for me
<SuperMatt> popey: are there any official slides/documentation for people that want to do Ubuntu training sessions at work/in the community?
<ali1234> either that or it spends 20 minutes uploading and then says the bug is not valid
<ali1234> of course both of these cases are things that don't show up in any error tracking
<ali1234> many of the crashes it does detect is stuff that crashes on shutdown for no reason
<ali1234> like firefox
<popey> SuperMatt, not that I'm aware of
<SuperMatt> dang
<SuperMatt> figured that'd be a nice thing to have
<popey> sure, we did have some which was made a while back
<popey> good training material isn't cheap to make
<SuperMatt> no, I imagine it's not
<SuperMatt> might be worth a team coming together to develop something and try to stay on top if it
<SuperMatt> a community team, that is
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> yup, i agree
<popey> its a lot of work
<SuperMatt> have I volunteered myself?
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: there might be some stuff on spreadubuntu
<SuperMatt> ta
<AlanBell> it is mostly just posters and marketing, but there might be something to use
<MonsterKiller> when i ssh my ubuntu server with a user that isnt "root" and try to scroll back previous commands, it just does "^[[A" but if im logged in as root it actually scroll the previous commands. what could that be?
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: a moodle course would be good
<AlanBell> MonsterKiller: sounds like the up cursor keymapping is wrong
<MonsterKiller> it works fine if im logged on as the root user
<MonsterKiller> :/
<AlanBell> what are you using as your ssh client?
<MonsterKiller> putty
<AlanBell> on windows?
<MonsterKiller> yeah
<AlanBell> try using ubuntu :)
<ali1234> that won't help
<AlanBell> mostly to see if it works from a terminal
<AlanBell> termcap stuff?
<ali1234> when you get no command history it means termcap is broken
<AlanBell> ubuntu to ubuntu works just fine for me
<ali1234> that can be a symptom of worse problems in user's environment
<AlanBell> or termcap doesn't recognise your terminal type
<MonsterKiller> haha, its like the default Ubuntu image for my vps too
<MonsterKiller> >.<
<ali1234> more likely, if using a root server, you didn't add the users correctly
<ali1234> eg forgot to make a home directory
<AlanBell> MonsterKiller: so you ssh as a user, then sudo -i to get to root and it works?
<AlanBell> or did you enable remote root ssh logins and root password?
<ali1234> VPS servers are usually issued with root account enabled
<MonsterKiller> AlanBell, root user is enabled by default since its a rented VPS
<ali1234> so how did you add users?
<MonsterKiller> useradd -d /home/user -m user
<ali1234> the documentation says to use adduser
<ali1234> now, sometimes useradd and adduser are the same binary
<ali1234> on other distros they are not
<ali1234> i forget which one ubuntu is
<ali1234> ok, ubuntu they are different
<MonsterKiller> :|
<ali1234> so is suspect useradd does not set up environment properly
<oimon> are there any lenders who don't charge a setup fee for a mortgage?
<oimon> seems to be a recent con
<MonsterKiller> ali1234, yeah using adduser seems to work
<MonsterKiller> \o/
<MonsterKiller> ty
<diplo> AlanBell / theopensourcerer : Either of you about ?
<theopensourcerer> yep
<diplo> I just wanted to see how you support openerp, my company have created our own erp system and looking at support atm for customer sites
<diplo> Wondering how you connect to customers to view if they have an issue
<diplo> Do you have vpn connections to all customer siteS?
<theopensourcerer> Depends on the customer.
<theopensourcerer> Most yes. They give us the keys and create VPN connections
<theopensourcerer> Some just ssh
<theopensourcerer> Some we host ;-)
<diplo> So if it's a issue when using the browser and don't have vpn access do you have a work around ?
<theopensourcerer> you can tunnel the web over ssh
<diplo> We've been discussing it, and one of the suggestions is some remote desktop on the server as an option
<diplo> That's also a good idea..
<theopensourcerer> ssh -L 8088:localhost:8088 mycustomer.com
<diplo> ooh will try that thanks
<theopensourcerer> It works fine :-)
<theopensourcerer> You can even chain ssh tunnels. When you need to be connecting from a host with a specific IP.
<davmor2> MonsterKiller: http://linuxers.org/article/differences-between-useradd-and-adduser-commands adduser imports the files from /etc/skel which will include things like shell type etc
<MonsterKiller> ah okay
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah port forwarding over ssh is fantastic
<Gargoyle> Anone got any tips on compiling nginx with passenger support, but keeping it compatible with the default 12.10 package?
<Gargoyle> Or should I uninstall the package, and go for complete manual install?
<AlanBell> Gargoyle: dunno what passenger support is, but generally use the packaged versions, or don't
<AlanBell> pain lies inbetween :)
<Gargoyle> AlanBell: passenger is for running ruby on rails apps (eg. redmine)
<AlanBell> redmine is cool
<AlanBell> we are running it but not though nginx I think
<Gargoyle> yeah, I was trying to avoid apache. Might just leave a second server running just apache+redmine
<AlanBell> yes, we are using apache
<Gargoyle> It's a shame nginx does not have runtime enabled modules.
<Gargoyle> but I guess thats one of the small things that makes it a little bit faster!
<AlanBell> would it really be faster for something it just hands off to redmine?
<AlanBell> all it is doing is getting the request, deciding "nope, not for me" and passing back whatever redmine responds with
<dogmatic69> Gargoyle: there is a php port of redmine
<dogmatic69> https://github.com/yandod/candycane
<Gargoyle> I meant as a general server. Nginx will be running other stuff
<Gargoyle> dogmatic69: Oooh!
<dogmatic69> as far as I know its a 1:1 copy
<Gargoyle> ta
<dogmatic69> The guy that wrote it is from Jp, but I am sure there is eng translations for it.
<mungojerry> upgrading to owncloud 4.5.1 , maybe i can delete my dropbox client :D
<dogmatic69> anyone that has used minicom before, is it possible to use entirely via command line? eg: without using the terminal UI thingy
<dogmatic69> or, another app that can send serial from terminal
<mungojerry> yes
<mungojerry> minicom -S /dev/tty1 from memory
<dogmatic69> man says " -S   script.  Run the named script at startup. "
<mungojerry> meh, something like that
<dogmatic69> I have been reading the man pages and blogs for weeks :(
<mungojerry> you want to read serial console on your machien?
<mungojerry> minicom -s
<mungojerry> then go to serial port setup
<dogmatic69> well instead of opening the app and selecting a file I would like to either -something /some/path/file.ext or somehow cat the contents of the file into it.
<dogmatic69> I am sending
<dogmatic69> its to a plotter.
<mungojerry> oh, i never tried the other way. echo "hello" > /dev/ttyS0 ?
<dogmatic69> you cant control the speed, stop bits etc like that.
<dogmatic69> Ive tried, it does nothing.
<mungojerry>  20G   19G   84M 100% /var/lib/ureadahead/debugfs
<mungojerry> ^^ anyone know about this partition?
<einonm> I'm not sure about ureadahead, but debugfs is used by the kernel for dynamic debug and the suchlike
<mungojerry> mine is near 100% though?
<einonm> I don;t have it mounted, a quick google seems to suggest this is a VM thing.
<einonm> are you on a vm?
<mungojerry> nope
<mungojerry> its a 10.04 machine
<einonm> do you have /sys/kernel/debug mounted too?
<mungojerry> "According to the dev in this bug report (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ad/+bug/499773), a left-over temporary mountpoint indicates that ureadahead crashed out, leaving the mountpoint in /etc/mtab. A quick scan of the source seems to confirm this, but maybe something was overlooked."
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 499773 in mountall (Ubuntu) "Race with ureadahead can mean that /var/lib/ureadahead/debugfs appears in /etc/mtab" [Low,Triaged]
<mungojerry> einonm, actually my / partition is full too
<einonm> ok, not the debugfs I know - that's a virtual fs
<mungojerry> i won't worry , but rather focus on the / partition
<einonm> there's loads on google about it if you look for 'ureadahead debugfs'. Seems a common issue...
 * popey is in a session about whoopsie/apport
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1m-FNL1mrD0
<popey> watch along!
 * Azelphur sees a popey
<popey> :)
<einonm> I'm watching the one about 'improving communication outward'
<einonm> I'm waiting to see if someone suggests proof reading M.Shuttleworth's blog posts as an idea
<popey> i suggested that in a previous session
<einonm> popey: :) How did that go down?
<davmor2> einonm: you see the guy behind popey with the gun....
<MartijnVdS> so that's where the black helicopters went
<einonm> oh yes..no, wait...that's an axe...the other guy?
<einonm> :p
<davmor2> popey: can you find out who keeps removing the uds videos from youtube?
<popey> eh?
<popey> removing from which account?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntudevelopers is the channel for thenm
<popey> *them
<davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXmPMPbXeA1gKZdcokgXF3w and now http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-14-04-Will-Come-to-Phones-TVs-and-Tablets-303165.shtml
<popey> people shouldn't link to those
<popey> the IS guys download them and then get the video guys to upload them to the ubuntudevelopers channel
<davmor2> popey: ah okay that explains why they are disappearing then
<directhex> hm, i think my wife's 6970 might be dodgy
<brobostigon> :(
<directhex> swapped my 5850 in place, and games are no longer locking up the system
<directhex> need to try & repro crashes with the 6970 in my pc
<MartijnVdS> Nokia?
<MartijnVdS> Blackberry?
<directhex> radeon
<MonsterKiller> can you use wget or something similar to get files from another ubuntu server via sftp?
<BigRedS> no
<BigRedS> you can use sftp or scp though
<BigRedS> and, sometimes, rsync. But that's via rsync/ssh rather than sftp
<BigRedS> depends on whether it really is just sftp access or an ssh account
<MonsterKiller> either, i just wanted quick way to copy files from one server to another :p
<davmor2> MonsterKiller: scp
<davmor2> MonsterKiller: scp user@server:/path/to/file user@server:/path/to/drop/file or easier still login to the server you want to drop the file to and then just do scp user@server:/path/to/file .
<MonsterKiller> can that copy entire folders? or does it need to be compressed first
<davmor2> MonsterKiller: scp -r iirc same rules as with cp
<MonsterKiller> :) ty
<BigRedS> davmor2: I think scp complains if both ends are remote
<BigRedS> that might be rsync, thinking about it
<davmor2> BigRedS: that's why I gave both examples and and said logging into the receiving server as the easiest :)
<BigRedS> yeah, it's always easiest to remove as many hosts as possible
<diplo> Just done a video with kazam, whats the best app to edit it?
<diplo> Openshot ?
<popey> try them all and see :)
<popey> pitivi / openshot / kdenlive...
<brobostigon> blender, :)
<Darael> cinelerra had a good rep at one point, but I don't think it's ever been in the repos.
<diplo> I remember why I've never bothered before, I'll read some tutorials on openshot
<diplo> I don't find any of them easy to use, never have. I guess i just suck :)
<gord> kdenlive is particularly excellent
<waveform> cinelerra is quite amazingly powerful, and there's a PPA for it, but expect the interface to be horribly ugly and for the learning curve to be more like a wall
<gord> i found it easy to use and fairly powerful. and unlike the rest i tried, it actually worked
<diplo> ok, all installing ready to play tomorrow
<waveform> (having played with kdenlive and pitivi, cinelerra beat their pants off for features and capabilities but it was pretty hard work to figure it all out - pitivi was easiest)
<gord> (why are we talking in giant paranthesis?)
<MartijnVdS> {because these are hard to type}
<waveform> [and these are soooo ugly]
<MartijnVdS> <and these are for xml/html>
<waveform> Â« and these are just weird Â»
<MartijnVdS> they're not even valid UTF-8
<MartijnVdS> Â« I think you mean these? Â»
<waveform> that's indeed what I meant, but mine appeared fine on my display (as did yours) so I'm now wondering where on earth the transcoding went wrong ;)
<MartijnVdS> You sent Latin1, which I don't transcode to UTF-8 on my side
<MartijnVdS> (but which your client does transcode, apparently)
<popey> cinlerra is the emacs of video editors
<MartijnVdS> popey: Does it contain a kitchen sink?
 * MartijnVdS has been playing with Openshot a bit recently
<MartijnVdS> but it's made of explodium
<waveform> MartijnVdS, very nearly - the list of plugins is stupendous (and includes awfully fancy things like motion compensation)
 * Flashtek burps
<zleap> hey Flashtek
<Flashtek>                                          o/
<Flashtek> right, who was it that refered me to this camera ?
 * zleap is innocent
<MartijnVdS> which camera/
<Flashtek> Â£35 one
<Flashtek> amazon
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ?
<Azelphur> Has anyone ever tried unmounting / while the system is up and running fsck
<Azelphur> like if I ran fsck once to pull it into the cache, unmounted, ran it and actually fsck'd the main drive... xD
<MartijnVdS> won't work
<MartijnVdS> you can't remount read-only if there's any open file
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> what about some way to make the system do an unattended fsck on reboot?
<Flashtek> AlanBell: ??
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: touch /forcefsck; reboot
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you can set FSCKFIX=1 in /etc/default/rcS as well
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: except read only filesystem :(
<MartijnVdS> if you want it 100% unattended
<Azelphur> except...read only filesystem
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> if the fs is already readonly, you should be able to fsck
<Flashtek> Azelphur: mount / -o remount,ro ; fsck / ; mount / -o remount,rw
<MartijnVdS> don't you have a serial/ipmi/vm console?
<Azelphur> I only have SSH
<MartijnVdS> reboot and use that to recover :)
<Azelphur> it's a dedi
<MartijnVdS> don't those come with serial consoles anymore?
<MartijnVdS> or IPMI
<Azelphur> not mine
<ali1234> "We don't rely on software fallback implementations of OpenGL.  We literally have a specific software engine that is so fast that some  developers spent weeks using it accidentally, not realizing they had  software compositing on their setup."
<ali1234> rasterman++++++
<MartijnVdS> rasterman does capitals and interpunction now?
<ali1234> i think it was a spoken interview
<AlanBell> hi Flashtek
<zleap> Flashtek,
<Flashtek> zleap:
<Flashtek> AlanBell: camera is alive :)
<AlanBell> woot
<Flashtek> ya
<AlanBell> I should publish my script and UI stuff
<Flashtek> needs installing, and power to be supplied
<Flashtek> and yeah, the scripts etc would be amazingly helpful
<AlanBell> yeah, just need to do things like not hardcode IP address and admin password and I will pop it on launchpad :)
<Flashtek> oke :)
<Flashtek> anything I can do to help at all ?
<zleap> sorry Flashtek i was in #dclug
<AlanBell> Flashtek: what is the default camera IP address?
<AlanBell> Flashtek: https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/camcontrol
<Flashtek> 192.168.1. something
<AlanBell> ok, I was going to set the default IP address in the code to the one it comes preset to
<ali1234> according to firmware the default ip is 192.168.1.1
<ali1234> that may only apply if there's no nvram config
<Flashtek> 239 port 81
<brobostigon> is it possible to manage an ejabberd server diectly via a jabber client, whose user is registered as the admin.?
<mgdm> I think so
<brobostigon> mgdm: how, because i can find references to it, but not explanation.
<mgdm> Yeah, in Pidgin, if I go to my ejabberd's account in the Accounts menu, I have loads of options
<brobostigon> mgdm: let me try that.
<brobostigon> mgdm: wow, yes. interesting. those options are there.
<brobostigon> mgdm: and loads more in the xmpp service descrovery.
<mgdm> Oh, i don't know that thing
<mgdm> where'd you get that?
<mgdm> Oh, found it
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> mgdm: i had only tried empathy and bitlbee, so didnt see any of those options.
<mgdm> Ah
<mgdm> it's years snce I used Empathy and I've never used bitlbee
<brobostigon> bitlbee is just convenient, as i run it with screen and irssi on my vps.
<brobostigon> also, i wonder why pidgin has those things, and not other xmpp clients.
<ali1234> empathy only does the bare minimum required for chatting
<brobostigon> ok.
<Darael> brobostigon: Psi and Psi+ can certainly do ejabberd's management things, if that helps at all.
<brobostigon> Darael: yes, thank you.
<brobostigon> i was just trying to find something for android.
<brobostigon> also*
<Darael> Personally I stopped using everything but xmpp and IRC, so I use an issi-in-screen (with the xmpp module) and psi+ as a desktop client.  Haven't really looked into android clients yet.
<Darael> Well, actually I use an irssi-in-tmux now.
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> pidgin for android would be interesting. i do remember pidgin was ported to maemo. for the above purpose.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-01
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Can someone please comment on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2012-November/265008.html
<kaushal> #ubuntu checking in again for the query?
<kaushal> testing
<AlanBell> morning all
<ahayzen> AlanBell, morning :)
<diplo> Morning all
<BigRedS> Gooood morning!
<czajkowski> BigRedS: ello
<BigRedS> Ello ello
<BigRedS> Is your back any better now?
<kvarley> I've just got a laptop and it's shipped with Windows 8 on it. What are my options for getting Ubuntu on there? At this stage do I have to disable UEFI?
<MartijnVdS> nah, Ubuntu can do UEFI
<kvarley> So it should just be a case of changing the boot order?
<MartijnVdS> put in the Ubuntu CD (or an USB stick made with Ubuntu's own USB disk maker)
<SuperMatt> you won't need to change the boot order, you can install side by side on different partitions, and it'll update the boot loader for you
<MartijnVdS> and it should show up in the "boot devices" menu
<AlanBell> kvarley: I think you need to use the 64 bit CD
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ok, thanks
<kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks, I am doing :)
<kvarley> I was resisting wiping Windows 8 straight away but thought it best to test the laptop before messing with it
<kvarley> But I can't take it anymore
<kvarley> Pretty cool, it has just worked out of the box
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<kvarley> Time to get Ubuntu on this thing, back later
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: The partition table is horrible
<AlanBell> kvarley: is it another "4 primary partitions, all used up"
<kvarley> Yeah at least, I think there may have been 5
<kvarley> A mix of fat32 and ntfs
<kvarley> Horrible
<AlanBell> can't be 5 :)
<kvarley> Oh yeah :P
<kvarley> They couldn't have made it harder to get rid of Windows 8
<kvarley> I can't actually get rid of it either because of the warranty on the laptop
<AlanBell> :(
<kvarley> Would be easier to buy an SSD and put that in rather than figuring out how to dual boot it
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> not a bad solution tbh
<kvarley> I think doing that would void warranty too
<kvarley> Well, if the drive somehow caused other parts to fail
<popey> kvarley, what laptop?
<AlanBell> really?
<kvarley> The warranty seems to rule out a lot of things on the fist page
<kvarley> Unless I have the permission of samsung
<popey> got a link?
<kvarley> popey: NP535UC-A02UK
<kvarley> I'll get you a link
<popey> no, i mean, a link to the warranty
<kvarley> popey: Doesn't seem to be on their support page
<kvarley> http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/model/NP535U3C-A02UK-downloads
<popey> search for a set of 3 words on the first page, on google
<popey> in quotes
<ali1234> you needs windows to claim on the warranty? "oops, the hard drive seems to have failed"
<popey> http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/warranty/warrantyInformation.do?page=POLICY.WARRANTY
<kvarley> popey: " if the computer, included hardware and preloaded software, has been  modified, altered and/or repaired by persons other than Samsung or  Samsung's authorized service centers:"
<popey> lol
<ali1234> how they going to know it's been modified after the hard drive has failed?
<kvarley> Lol
<popey> http://www.samsung.com/hk_en/mysamsung/product/myssMyProductRegist2.do?page=PRODUCT.REGISTRATION
<popey> you haven't modified the software or the hardware
<popey> you have _replaced_ it
<kvarley> popey: Hehe
<kvarley> I'm just concerned that their warranty terms are so broad
<popey> its a serious point
<AlanBell> and registering for the extended warranty requires internet explorer
<popey> phone them up and ask
<AlanBell> it is a serious point, and probably in contravention of EC regulations
<AlanBell> but it would cost quite a bit to challenge it
<kvarley> AlanBell: True
<AlanBell> and I don't know if anyone with the deep pockets required has the appetite to do so
<chalcedony> do official repair people put labels on their work or otherwise identify that they did it?
<diplo> chalcedony: Only thing I remember they used to do was seal one or more of the screws so they can see if it's been tampered with
<diplo> Not sure if they still do that though
<diplo> I had to take my brand new one apart to upgrade ram
<diplo> As HP hid one of the slots under the keyboard...
<kvarley> diplo: I just took the screw out to the service hatch and it seems clean
<diplo> For me I'd go with swapping out SSD to be honest
<kvarley> diplo: me too
<diplo> Apple allow you to change it without voiding
<diplo> Anything that is user serviceable is ok
<popey> i have had to have 3 laptops repaired over the years, never had a problem with it running linux
<kvarley> I think the reason it is so broad is because if you install a drive and it breaks the whole system they don't wanna have to cover it
<popey> only had to explain to the people that it wasnt running windows
<kvarley> popey: :)
<popey> so can't do their silly tests
<diplo> Just read on samsung site that it doesn't
<diplo> Other machine though
<kvarley> popey: They don't even do those tests half the time, I've had bad experiences with a certain manufacturer not testing my laptop before they sent it back to me
<diplo> http://www.samsung.com/us/support/SupportOwnersFAQPopup.do?faq_id=FAQ00032140&fm_seq=32308
<AlanBell> swapping out spinning rust for SSD is just a good idea all round
<diplo> Upgrading the hard drive will not void the warranty. However, if your computer requires service and the problem is caused by the upgraded hard drive, Samsung is not responsible for the hard drive or problems caused by the upgraded hard drive.
<kvarley> I totally agree AlanBell
<kvarley> The only noise is the HDD unless I'm doing something really intensive
<kvarley> diplo: Thanks :D
<livingdaylight> greetings
 * diplo loves byobu so can do 2 screens
 * AlanBell wonders about pre-installed SSD as an Ubuntu distribution method
<livingdaylight> indirectly connected to Ubuntu: looking for a linux-compatible laser printer. Any hot recommendations?
<ali1234> get a network printer
<livingdaylight> ideally, has wifi, and scanning capabilities too.
 * diplo agress
<diplo> Agrees*
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: network printer, possibly one with google cloud print
<livingdaylight> wifi = network printer?
<livingdaylight> AlanBell, any particular /specific recommendation. Its a sea of printers out there
<popey> hp
<livingdaylight> so, no one has a laser printer they're satified with they'd like to recommend?
<ali1234> i have a HP 4L that i am satisfied with
<livingdaylight> I'm still presuming wifi = network
<ali1234> i'm mainly satisfied with it because it still works after nearly 20 years
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: wifi=network, yes
<livingdaylight> AlanBell, thx
<ali1234> but if i were going to buy a new one it would be network
<AlanBell> it might not have an ethernet port, but that is fine if you are fine with it
<AlanBell> I don't have a printer with cloud print, but there was a UDS session about it
<popey> livingdaylight, i said "hp"
<ali1234> i would get one with both
<ali1234> i could ask my brother which one he's got, i nkow that works with linux and has wifi and ethernet
<livingdaylight> popey, you did mention a make - thx. I was rather after a particular /specific make AND model, though. Thx, again
<popey> its hard to give a model number other than "the one I have"
<popey> which is no good because its discontinued
<popey> and you may have differing requirements than I do
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: do you want small and cheap or big and expensive?
<popey> do you want small, need a display, need large cartidges, multi-colour carts etc etc
<popey> its not just as simple as "what printer should I buy?"
<livingdaylight> well, I'd like it to be linux-compatible - of course - aside from that, wifi, and scanning would be welcome additional features. Color would be ideal too, but that then becomes yet more expensive. Would like to keep it under Â£100 if possible
<ali1234> dont get a built in scanner
<ali1234> just get a good printer
<popey> see I differ from ali1234 because I want a built in scanner
<ali1234> and a good, separate scanner
<popey> i dont want two devices
<popey> thus proving my point :)
<ali1234> why d you want built in?
<livingdaylight> space is premium here, so, built in is nice, but apparently not a common feature in laser printers
<popey> i wanted a scanner/printer/fax/copier combo
<popey> i dont want a separate scanner taking up space
<ali1234> combo devices are always inkjet because you're getting a cheap horrible printer and a cheap horrible scanner
<popey> i dont care
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> it's good enouhg for my use
<popey> *enough
<ali1234> if you just want to replace a fax/copier then fine, you dont care about quality
<ali1234> so it depends
<livingdaylight> popey, i didn't just say I want to buy a printer. I specified 'laser' which I hoped would narrow it down combined with the ideal additional functionalities mentioned, i.e. wifi, scanning and perhaps color.
<ali1234> yeah, yeah, we still need more information though
<AlanBell> I have not seen many laser printers with scanners
<ali1234> ok my brother has HP Laserjet CP1515n and i know it works very well with ubuntu
<AlanBell> I guess they get sold as photocopiers
<livingdaylight> just thought there would be some already-clearly-emerging winners here to be recommended. I 'll just keep googling and reading reviews then
<ali1234> apparently it is replaced by 1518 but i have no idea how well that works
<livingdaylight> ali1234, thx, I'll look that up
<ali1234> it doesn't have a scanner though
<livingdaylight> ali1234, most don't, it seems. Might have to have a separate one for that then.
<ali1234> i have an old canon scanner which still works really well
<livingdaylight> there is also the running costs. Reading reviews they seem to break the cost down to x-pennies per page
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> also you want to look at the replacabled
<livingdaylight> Like there was a Brother printer that cost 4.6 p per page which apparently was quite costly to another one which was 3.6 /page
<ali1234> cos it's not just toner with lasers
<ali1234> there is a waste toner cartridge and the charge thing
<ali1234> both need replacing
<ali1234> the HP i have has everything in one cartridge
<ali1234> so it will never wear out
<ali1234> new cartridge is basically a new printer
<ali1234> ah photoconductor roller
<ali1234> make sure that's replacable
<livingdaylight> thx for the tips ali1234
<ali1234> it should usually be in the carts
<ali1234> sometimes it's a separate part though
<theopensourcerer> Gosh - the new Orion IDE from the Eclipse looks nice. In-broswer, seems quite quick.
<ali1234> eclipse made something fast?
<Flashtek> AlanBell: alive ?
<Flashtek> I could do with some help getting this camera thing working...
<ali1234> i agree with that blog post from the other day. a sensible language doesn't need an IDE beyond syntax highlighting and bracket matching.
<directhex> i love typeahead
<directhex> especially when it's smart, e.g. if i type "mymethod(" it offers a drop-down list of applicable variables to pass to mymethod which are in scope and are the correct type (or can be implicitly converted)
<directhex> tl;dr: monodevelop!
<mungojerry> my laserjet 4plus is still rocking
<MartijnVdS> directhex: What are these "types" you speak of? ;)
<directhex> everything has a type, even if you pretend it doesn't
<directhex> dynamic typing != no typing
<ali1234> typeahead is a feature that makes my hard drive chug for 5 seconds every time i add or remove a character?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes
<directhex> ali1234, someone needs a cache
<ali1234> typeahead is good when you don't know the language or standard library
<ali1234> or your own code
<AlanBell> Flashtek: aliveish :)
<Flashtek> i have the image, but getting no control
<directhex> ali1234, so we should make humans do tasks that computers are designed for, such as tracking object scope in a complex project?
<directhex> should we also find any available dogs, and wag their tails for them?
<AlanBell> Flashtek: no control through the built in UI?
<ali1234> nah, we should ban languages where that's actually something you need to worry about
<ali1234> starting with anything that claims to be object oriented
<AlanBell> and burn all the books about them
<ali1234> yes
<Flashtek> AlanBell: if i use the webcams internal web server I can control the camera just fine
<AlanBell> Flashtek: ok, cool
<directhex> so no object oriented languages, no types, and no useful IDE
<directhex> are we making assembly in vi the core of the ubuntu sdk, then?
<AlanBell> Flashtek: so that camcontrol.py file needs to be set up with mod_python
<ali1234> no, C in gedit
<Flashtek> AlanBell: how do i do that then ?
<AlanBell> or you can call it from the command line
<ali1234> i never said you can't have types, that was someone else
<Flashtek> ./camcontrol gox=100 goy=100 <-- correct ??
<Flashtek> ./camcontrol.py gox=100 goy=100 <-- correct ??
<directhex> call it the ubuntu-uk sdk, then
<ali1234> i don't think there's really any way to defend a language that makes you type the same thing over and over and then make an IDE that types it for you. why even have it in the first place? if the IDE can figure it out, why can't the compiler?
<ali1234> so yeah without the IDE you'd have to do more work. but you've chosen to do that work by your language choice
<directhex> i can't even work out what that's an attack on. namespaces?
<AlanBell> Flashtek: actually no, looks like the CLI stuff isn't there any more
<ali1234> namespaces actually reduce this somewhere
<AlanBell> Flashtek: I have to go do stuffs for a bit
<ali1234> well, if you say "using namespace;" it does
<kvarley> popey: Any ideas on how I can tell whether my laptop is SATA II or III ?
<BigRedS> lshw?
<einonm> kvarley: does palimpset tell you?
<popey> or "disk utility" as we call it :)
<kvarley> Checking now, booting from USB.
<einonm> popey: Not from my lowly point on the command line, surely? :)
<popey> people use the command line?
<popey> wow
<Flashtek> popey: I do
<einonm> popey: it's probably so fast that you don't notice it
<popey> super -> ut -> enter... disk utility starts \o/
<einonm> \o/
<popey> it doesnt specify if it's SATA II or SATA III as far as I can see
<einonm> I did the same thing on the cmdline, but it was so quick you didn't see it ^^
<kvarley> einonm: palimpset not found
<kvarley> popey: disk utility doesn't appear in dash
<einonm> I know how to tell which package a program is from with yum, how do I do that in apt?
<kvarley> Ah popey it's just "Disks" in 1210
<kvarley> Doesn't say on disks
<kvarley>  The stock hard drive is sata II
<daubers> Not that sataII or II makes a difference with spinning disk...
<daubers> II or III even
<popey> ah sorry, I'm on 12.04
<kvarley> My desktop is too so I was confused too
<einonm> kvarley: quick way to see if it's SATA ii or iii, based on a quick google - run 'dmesg | grep SATA
<einonm> link should be 3Gbps for ii, 6 Gbps for iii apparently
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> ning
<kvarley> einonm: Found out by using an app to get my southbridge chipset
<kvarley> einonm: AMD Hudson-3L - Apparently supports SATA III :D
<einonm> kvarley: Great. So your disk is SATA iii too?
<kvarley> einonm: Nope, SATA II Hitachi 500GB
<BigRedS> einonm: dpkg -S <file name>
<BigRedS> so you can do    dpkg -S `which thingy`   where thingy is the tool you're trying to find the source package of
<einonm> BigRedS: Great, thanks.
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm in GameOS to update my SGS3. It tells me that I'm on the latest version of firmware
<directhex> bigcalm, which brand of sgs3?
<directhex> afaik only Three have shipped the rom
<directhex> s/rom/jelly bean rom/
<bigcalm> directhex: Still on ICS from when I got the handset from t-mobile
<bigcalm> directhex: davmor2 is on t-mobile and has JB on his SGS3
<directhex> also remember that access to rom updates tends to be staggered
<directhex> across about a week or fortnight
<bigcalm> Have EE only just pushed out the JB update for the SGS3 then?
<directhex> 24th, apparently
<davmor2> bigcalm: then it lies
<davmor2> bigcalm: check the version number
<bigcalm> Which number?
<bigcalm> 4.0.4 = ICS
<popey> 4.2 is due soon isnt it?
<directhex> 4.2 is out, ish
<directhex> 4.2 is also jelly bean
<directhex> version numbers are hard!
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd ring up t mobile and find out why you don't have an option to upgrade
<directhex> 2.0 and 2.1 were both eclair
<directhex> 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 were honeycomb
 * bigcalm gives up for the day and goes to a NT house
<bigcalm> Toodles
<BigRedS> Would I know by now if I did all the right hoop-jumping to get steam on Linux?
<BigRedS> I wanna play games at work this weekend but not quite as much as I want to not arse about finding network drivers for Windows
<theopensourcerer> My SG3 updated to 4.1.1 last week - vodafone
<czajkowski> have folks seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Enterprise
<czajkowski> AlanBell: theopensourcerer ^^^
<theopensourcerer> ty czajkowski. Am off to get sozzled shortly so will deal with it later.
<BigRedS> I spent the day being told that there was no need for that project since it was already good enough :)
<diplo> I do agree with the comment at the bottom
<diplo> Most of that is part of Samba4, getting that integrated would be better
<AlanBell> czajkowski: :( to most of the things on the list there
<AlanBell> that is a windows integration shopping list, not an articulation of a vision of a Free Software stack for the modern business
<AlanBell> that basically recreates the Ubuntu Business respin that I didn't even bother to download
<AlanBell> windows integration isn't a bad thing, and Samba4 etc is a good thing, but that is about making a second rate Windows, not making a first rate Ubuntu
<einonm> Aren't all those potential needs listed already met, anyway? I'm sure I've done / am doing most of them already.
<AlanBell> yeah, I think so too
<AlanBell> and they are not very exciting
<einonm> The original idea looks to be from 2006 as well...where it probably belongs.
<diplo> I think it all just needs to be easier to configure/documented
<diplo> Maybe in an official documentation rather than community one
<BigRedS> Anyone here use GoDaddy? I've got a customer who has sent a 2KB CSR to use as a TXT record for this: http://support.godaddy.com/help/article/4678/creating-a-txt-record-for-ssl-validation
<BigRedS> I'm almost certain that every time I've seen these before it's been a short string (64B or so), am I misremembering?
<diplo> I use GoDaddy, but not done anything like that with it
<BigRedS> Hm, found a blog which suggests it's a 7-character string. At least I have a source to cite now :)
<diplo> Right, reinstall vps.. bbl
<Ng> popey is on stage!
<brobostigon> woop
 * brobostigon waves at popey from a distence, and tries to distract him.
<brobostigon> we just heard about your stage appearence popey :)
<popey> heh
<popey> prepped in about 2 mins
<brobostigon> ah.
<mungojerry> if i want lxde on ubuntu , and want the ubuntu theming etc, what do i install?
<mungojerry> lxde is too underconfigged, lubuntu-desktop installs loads of apps
<mungojerry> lubuntu-core?
<mungojerry> i've intalled lubuntu-core.
<AlanBell> how would I grep for "[something]"
<AlanBell> I want all lines that contain something in square brackets
<einonm> AlanBell: something like "\[.*\]"
<diplo> grep '\[*\]' *
<diplo> ?
<diplo> :D
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ grep "\[bjoern-michaelsen\]" uds-r-desktop-r-reboot-libreoffice-packaging-latest.txt
<AlanBell> heh
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> popey: want my "download all the pads" script?
<AlanBell> it is nasty, but it works :)
<AlanBell> nothing wrong with a script that opens 300 firefox tabs is there
<popey> I'll just wget your people page
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uds-r/actions.txt going to linkify that in a bit
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uds-r/
<AlanBell> will rerun the script at the close of the last session
 * popey searches that page for his nickname
<mungojerry> is there a service that plots a graph of the volume of twitter messages mentioning a certain word?
<ali1234> mungojerry: http://www.followthehashtag.com/
<ali1234> but it isn't loading for me
<mungojerry> thanks ali1234 thats the idea
<mungojerry> looking for a graph over 1 yr
<ali1234> i suspect that the search for 1 year wuld seriously overload twitter api so it would have to be a service by twitter
<ali1234> like google trends is
<AlanBell> it wouldn't overload the twitter api, the problem is that it involves data that twitter want to make money from
<ali1234> every tweet containing an arbitrary world for the past 12 months?
<ali1234> that could run to several gigabytes probably
<ali1234> if they made a specific api that just returns counts then it wouldn't overload it
<AlanBell> they could stream them to you slowly
<ali1234> but they don't afaik
<mungojerry> so do google do it?
<mungojerry> just wanna graph of mentions of manflu
<ali1234> http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=manflu
<AlanBell> it may be a technicaly hard thing/too much data, but they also see their data warehouse as valuable
<AlanBell> mungojerry: that is a great term to search for
<AlanBell> and it reveals that it is a UK phrase
<AlanBell> didn't know that at all
<ali1234> on "the code" a google rep stated that they can predict flu outbreaks just be monitoring how many people search for flu symtoms/remedies
<ali1234> not really predict, but find out about them faster than anyone else
<ali1234> because people websearch before they go to the doctor
<AlanBell> snow is a good one!
<mungojerry> also try d+v bug
<ali1234> "presents" more sharply defined
<AlanBell> http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=santa&cmpt=q curiously there is a santa peak every march/april as somewhere like santa barbara/santa maria/ santa anita/santa cruz/santa monica hits the news
<AlanBell> that looks to me like a journalistic googlebomb
<Flashtek> zleap:
<bootlkjkgf> As kickstarter.com is now open to the UK ... has anyone noticed any British kickstarter-projects about ?
<bootlkjkgf> Oh wait there is afew ... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/search?term=british Mostly B-films thou.
<zleap> what is kickstarter
<zleap> trying to find a simple explanation on website
<christel> a funding website for projects (that result in an actual product)
<DJones> zleap: Basically, people pledge money towards a target for a particular project, if the target is reached, a specific project will go ahead
<zleap> ah
<bootlkjkgf> WTF is this !!!http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1117334251/british-up-a-mockumentary?play=1&ref=search
<christel> are they the kids who made a film about how you could live in a walmart store?
<bootlkjkgf> Either way , I imagine a bad breakdown is imminent in their careers.
<bootlkjkgf> I think kickstarter takes like 8% of all funding, anyway.
<buzz_> spammy spammy - Xubuntu 12.10 for the O2 Joggler released - http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/
<bootlkjkgf> probably more like 12%.
<bootlkjkgf> Here's the Bog roll if you wanna have a look ... http://www.reddit.com/r/kickstarter/search?q=Kickstarter&sort=new&restrict_sr=on
<Azelphur> I wonder if it would be possible to reinstall the OS over SSH, given that we have two hdds and one of them is just data?
<sagaci> I'll be staying the UK, namely London, for a few days. Just would like some ideas on mobile broadband suppliers. I'll only be there for roughly a week.
<AlanBell> hi sagaci
<AlanBell> any of them should work fine in London
<AlanBell> you can get a pay as you go SIM from various places
<AlanBell> like a phone shop, or some supermarkets
<sagaci> righteo then, do most of the modems work with ubuntu
<AlanBell> I wouldn't get one from a stall at a market or in a station or anything
<AlanBell> oh, I would do wireless tethering from a phone
<AlanBell> most modems do work, but some don't and it can be fiddly
<sagaci> I have win7 dual boot so always a back up
<AlanBell> sagaci: tbh I would get the cheapest android handset over a dongle or mifi
<sagaci> 50 pounds should get me 2-4GB, hopefully
<nucc1> is anyone able to use this extension in 12.10? https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/104/netspeed/
<dwatkins> http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php
<MartijnVdS> *click*
<bootlkjkgf> left or right - click ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<lazarus_> quick question is there a way to get ubuntu to connect to to a server that is using web deploy because on windows i use web matrix 2 and well i dont want to use webmatrix because im trying to move away from windows
<ali1234> what is web deploy
<ali1234> what is web matrix
<ali1234> answer: a proprietary method for uploading web pages to a windows virtual server hosted on azure
<ali1234> if msdeploy is .net (and it probably is if it's recent) then it will probably run in mono
<ali1234> really though if you want to get away from windows the first thing you want to do is dump that IIS
<mejpark> Can anyone confirm time and room of HantsLUG meeting at Southampton University this Saturday?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-02
<Guest42206> join #ubuntu
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> mornin'
<christel> orning :)
<christel> er morning perhaps
 * dwatkins hands christel an 'm'
<christel> thank you! i've been looking for one of those! :D
<dwatkins> I'd have put it on toast, but there's no bread here.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> o/
<MartijnVdS> \\o \o/ o//
<christel> hehe
<dwatkins> (" ) ( ") (" )
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: gangnam style?
<dwatkins> haha, never thought of that - I was thinking of arcade games, possibly Pengo.
<danfish> morning
<danfish> a bit cheesy, but as safety breifings go quite clever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBlRbrB_Gnc
<ZAKhan> I am form the ubuntu-loco ae , can someone help me with the wordpress theme that you have used on your loco site
<danfish> ZAKhan: I think AlanBell is your man
<ZAKhan> he is away i guess
<danfish> ZAKhan: he's here most days
<ZAKhan> danfish, I have messaged him.. i hoep when he is here he will get back to me
<ZAKhan> danfish, thanks
<AlanBell> hi ZAKhan
<ZAKhan> oh there you are :)
<AlanBell> where is ae then?
<dwatkins> can anyone please tell me the website used to share specs of a PC being selected/built?
<ZAKhan> United Arab Emirates
<AlanBell> oh cool
<ZAKhan> AlanBell, can you help me with the wordpress theme?
<AlanBell> maybe, just looking for the theme on launchapd
<ZAKhan> I have installed the theme and its working , I am unable to find out how to set up the menus
<ZAKhan> check http://ubuntu-loco.ae
<popey> good morning
<AlanBell> oh right, I am about to pop out ZAKhan, I will log on to our one later and get back to you
<ZAKhan> ok i am onoine you can msg me anytime
<ZAKhan> online
<Laney> grurgh
<Laney> blurgohgeoh
<Laney> and other similar noises
<popey> ugh
<Laney> getting up. going into copenhagen to explore.
 * Laney drags self around
<ali1234> ZAKhan: menus are not in theme
<czajkowski> poor Laney
<DJones> \o/ Managed to connect a extra 5 port hub/switch to my router to give more ethernet connections in the office
<MartijnVdS> Achievement unlocked?
<DJones> Its amazing what you find in the loft after 10 years and moving into a house
<DJones> Yep, I'd tried it once before & never got it to work, should bitthe bullet originally and read the manual
<MartijnVdS> Connecting a switch isn't rocket surgery though
<DJones> 2 achievements unlocked, bloke reads electronic manual and suceeded in getting it working
<DJones> MartijnVdS: You tell that to the people running network commerical isps that keep going downm BT/virgin failures springs to mind :)
<DJones> 3rd achievemnt unlocked, dog didn't like the noise of the loft ladder and was brave enough to come upstairs on his his own
<DJones> Hmmh, maybe even 4th achievement unlocked, dog decides its bring yourself to owners work day
<BigRedS> he has his own loft ladder?
<DJones> I think he might start thinking about it
<DJones> Did have his front paws on the 2nd rung
<diplo> daubers: What are you building? ( Ref : G+ )
<BigRedS> My dad's cat used to use the loft ladder coming out as an excuse to shoot up into the loft and wee in a corner. I'm stull surprised every time I find myself in a loft that doesn't smell faintly of catt wee
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<DJones> BigRedS: Easily solved, get yourself a cat
<BigRedS> DJones: :)
<daubers> diplo: RepRap Prusa
<diplo> 3d printer ?
<kvarley> I saw online that 12.10 is slower than 12.04. The articles fail to mention how much slower it actually is. Should I pick 12.04 or 12.10 to run on a 2.1 GHz dual core?
<ali1234> kvarley: it depends on your graphics mostly
<kvarley> ali1234: It's an AMD A6-4455M APU so I have reasonable graphics performance
<ali1234> if you previously used unity-2d then it 12.10 will be much slower for you
<kvarley> It's a new laptop so I haven't compared
<ali1234> should be fine then IF you can get the drivers working
<kvarley> :)
<ali1234> i heard there's a lot of problems on 12.10 with that
<kvarley> =/
<kvarley> I'll give it a go and see how it goes
<ali1234> i haven't bothered trying to upgrade yet because there's simply nothing of interest in it
<kvarley> If all else fails I'll just fallback to 12.04. Thanks for the help :)
<kvarley> ali1234: In which case I may just do 12.04. Only new features are previews and shopping lens?
<ali1234> and webapps but they don't work properly
<ali1234> also a load of third party indicators are broken too
<daubers> diplo: Yup :)
<livingdaylight> anyone remember from the gnome2 days being able to add time locations from the date/time dropdown menu in the top panel?
<ali1234> yes
<livingdaylight> using gnome-shell and wondering whether there is an application I need to dl to regain that functionality
<ali1234> no. it's just gone
<livingdaylight> dang
<gord> you can still add times in other locations to that menu in unity
<livingdaylight> but that was so cool
<BigRedS> yeah, I spent a while trying to do that in Gnome
<ali1234> gord: how
<gord> date time settings -> clock -> time in other locations
<popey> yeah, i have multiple locations on my calendar in unity
<gord> you can also set it to auto detect your current location
<gord> which is awwweeesoome
<ali1234> when i click "time & date settings" it just opens "all settings"
<ali1234> there is no "clock"
<BigRedS> the other tab
<BigRedS> oh
<gord> iruno whats going on with your system then
<ali1234> there are no tabs
<BigRedS> You want 'time and date settings' then the 'clock' tab, then the 'choose locations' button on the right
<ali1234> doesn't unity use gnome control enter any more?
<BigRedS> Certainly neither Gnome or Unity on my laptop appear to recognise the existence of the power button, but gnome under Debian does
<BigRedS> so I've assumed that's some 'optimisation' somewhere in a common component, and I've presumed that extends to all the config
<gord> it does use the gnome control centre
<ali1234> well my gnome control centre does not have a "clock" tab
<gord> your system be funky, i suggest you defunkify it
<livingdaylight> How about the calendar. Is it possible for that to link to google calendar - I have no use for evolution at all
<ali1234> can you show me a screenshot of what it is supposed to look like?
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: as far as I know you can only do that with evolution, 'cause that's the gnome-sanctioned way of using calendars
<popey> ali1234, its called time and date
<gord> http://lotphelp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Time-Date_002.png
<BigRedS> I keep meaning to do something with pal and /etc/profile...
<ali1234> no, not that window, the screenshot of gnome control center showing an icon labelled "time and date"
<popey> i see it at the bottom under "system"
<ali1234> also that clearly isn't g-c-c because i doesn't have "all settings" button at the top
<gord> i did a search for unity control centre on google images and just got back images of ccsm -_-
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, that's disappointing. I'd like to integrate my calendar but don't use evolution or stand alone calendar. Presumably, lots of people use google's calendar to organize their schedule. Cloud computing and syncing over many apps is kinda way to go. Sounds like gnome devs are stuck in 20th century
<ali1234> popey: system has "date and time" not "time and date"
<popey> not here
<ali1234> so what packages do you have installed which mess with gnome control center??
<gord> livingdaylight, http://www.my-guides.net/en/guides/linux/310-how-to-display-google-calendar-events-in-unity-without-evolution work for you? - if there is one thing i've learnt, its there is probably an indicator for everything by now
<livingdaylight> I've got "Date and Time Settings"
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: I thought "cloud" in that sense meant "In a web browser"
<livingdaylight> gord, thx, will look at that
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, you probably know better than me. I just mean in the sense that its stored in the cloud-space; hence synced over a lot of apps. i.e. I can schedule something on my desktop and be reminded about it, when I'm about through my Android phone
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: haha, I was being facetious
<ali1234> ah here's the problem
<livingdaylight> BigRedS, <doh>
<BigRedS> :)
<ali1234> indicator-datetime doesn't work
<ali1234> so instead of displaying the configuration panel extension it just does nothing
<ali1234> ** (gnome-control-center:14468): WARNING **: Could not find settings panel "indicator-datetime"
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: that's not really 'cloud'. That's just 'online' - calendars have done that for _years_
<BigRedS> (I know that's true of almost all of the 'cloud')
<ali1234> ah, if i remove the crappy broken indicator-datetime from my panel, and use the gnome one, locations is back
<livingdaylight> ali1234, the gnome one?
<livingdaylight> I've got indicator-datetime too
<ali1234> the gnome panel applet clock
<livingdaylight> installed gworldclock but find it sux basically
<ali1234> right, fixed
<livingdaylight> ali1234, are you in unity or gnome shell?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> http://i.imm.io/K76r.png
<livingdaylight> ali1234, what DE are you in?
<popey> ali1234, http://imgur.com/ZgHvn
<livingdaylight> popey, nice
<livingdaylight> is that only possible in Unity, still?
<gord> anywhere you can use indicators
<popey> no idea, it works for me
<popey> i dont use any other desktops
<ali1234> you can use indicators under gnome panel however it does not work
<ali1234> so yeah this only works under unity
<davmor2> Morning all
<ali1234> livingdaylight: i use gnome classic
<davmor2> ali1234: what only works under unity?
<ali1234> indicator-datetime
<davmor2> ali1234: that should work under gnome classic all the indicators should
<ali1234> well it doesn't
<ali1234> if you are not running unity: ** (gnome-control-center:14468): WARNING **: Could not find settings panel "indicator-datetime"
<davmor2> ali1234: what version of Ubuntu is that on?
<ali1234> 12.04
<gord> and it works if you log into unity?
<ali1234> no. i cannot log in to unity because it is not installed
<gord> then how can you say foo only works in unity, its likely your system is just misconfigured
<gord> maybe an essential package didn't get brought in that is brought in with the ubuntu-desktop package
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> in that case the dependencies on indicator-datetime are broken
<gord> could be, ubuntu is a big and complicated system, but that doesn't mean omgeveryoneelseisterrible. just figure out what it is, install the package and file a bug against the packaging
<ali1234> considering that i have every package installed from ubuntu desktop except for ones that conflict with others
<ali1234> i cannot install any more packages to make indicator-datetime work
<ali1234> and it is highly unlikely that this is the problem
<gord> ubuntu-desktop brings in unity
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> so if indicator-datetime requires unity
<ali1234> then it requires unity and does not work under other desktops, and therefore my original statement was correct
<gord> no, i'm saying log into unity, you said its not installed, so either your lying, or it conflicted with a gnome thing, which means who knows what else conflicted
<ali1234> yes, unity does conflict with compiz
<ali1234> because unity requires an incompatible fork of compiz which is not supported by upstrem
<ali1234> therefore in order to have a working version of compiz installed i cannot have unity installed
<gord> okay you obviously have a crazyily configurated system, i'm just going to step outside this because its not worth my effort
<ali1234> like most things it seems
<diplo> bug #1071001
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1071001 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "Sound Card not detected NM10/ICH7 Intel HDA Internal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071001
<ali1234> i love how you have plenty of time to argue with me, but fixing bugs is not worth your time
<diplo> Sort of found a fix for the above
<diplo> blacklist edac
<diplo> Sound now works, but Output in Sound settings is still empty
<AlanBell> ali1234: fwiw indicator-datetime works fine in gnome-classic session with unity installed
<ali1234> apt-get wants to install these packages for unity: compiz compiz-core compiz-gnome compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default compizconfig-backend-gconf libcompizconfig0 unity
<AlanBell> so yeah, probably is an unspecified dependency
<popey> yup
<ali1234> so you're telling me it depends directly on unity or compiz?
<popey> unity is a plugin for compiz 0.9 as you well know
<ali1234> indicator-datetime?
<ali1234> so that means indicator-datetime does depend on unity
<AlanBell> well I don't know (and can't see why it should either)
<ali1234> so the assertion that it works "anywhere you can use indicators" is false
<AlanBell> at some point I might try uninstalling unity in a vm to see if it breaks indicator-datetime
<ali1234> right i am in unity and it works now
<AlanBell> ali1234: got a bug number?
<ali1234> for?
<AlanBell> this issue?
<ali1234> no, i only just found it
<ali1234> reporting it nopw
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> did unity start using the virtualbox passthrough driver or is it using llvmpipe still?
<ali1234> bug 751175
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 751175 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "Time and Date Settings don't load" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751175
<ali1234> bug 1074314
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel does not work if unity/compiz is not installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074314
<ali1234> now testing exactly which package causes this
<popey> AlanBell, virtualbox is broken
<popey> well the virtualbox guest driver is
<AlanBell> what do people at Canonical use then?
<gord> i use vmware
<popey> for what?
<AlanBell> well, for VMs of ubuntu on an ubuntu host
<AlanBell> for testing or whatever
<popey> https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51727&sid=36c95f58983d1295a120092fe6b8c85c&start=45
<popey> *sigh*
<popey> Can't connect to MySQL server on '192.9.178.5' (110) [2003]
<AlanBell> gord: does the host HUD grab the alt key from vmware guests?
<popey> we have a known bug about the capture of alt/super in vms
<gord> will do on ubuntu
<gord> its not a vm issue, its, well really its an X issue
<AlanBell> O.o
 * czajkowski tickles gord you never came and said hi 
<AlanBell> yeah Bug #741869
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 741869 in OEM Priority Project precise "Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/741869
<popey> thats the badger
<gord> czajkowski, i was only in the same building ;) not really at uds
<czajkowski> :(
<AlanBell> gord: so I guess you turn off the shortcuts on the host or something to work in VMs?
<gord> i just tend not to use them on hosts, i don't development "live", i built standalone versions of all the unity components that work outside of compiz
<mungojerry> another month, another DE
<popey> *boggle*
<mungojerry> gnome shell was nice but suffered same problems
<mungojerry> maybe the problem is the apps i use
<mungojerry> it's certainly not my hardware
<mungojerry> cos i've changed it compltely
<AlanBell> sure, I am just puzzled how we managed to set a shortcut key for HUD that means you can't alt-tab in a guest
<mungojerry> sometimes i think it's just me :(
<SuperMatt> hurm, is there any kind of fake rootkit on the web I can use to check security software?
<mungojerry> liek an eicar?
<SuperMatt> yes, I guess
<einonm> SuperMatt: I've heard of backtrack linux being used for that sort of thing
<SuperMatt> oh right, I see how that works
<SuperMatt> cool
 * SuperMatt installs another vm
<MartijnVdS> \o/ vms
<popey> LUNCH
 * mungojerry is back to lxde
<mungojerry> + xcompmgr
<SuperMatt> I have no idea how we managed to test the crap out of things until we had vms
<mungojerry> 5 pcs
<dwatkins> I was tempted to switch to xpde, but then I realised that development of it stopped years ago.
<SuperMatt> the screenshots of xpde look remarkably like windows 8
<dwatkins> Perhaps I should just use fvwm95...
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: heh, I think it's supposed to look like Windows 95 or 2000.
<dwatkins> Possibly XP with the old-style theme enabled, considering the background.
<davmor2> AlanBell: I use Vbox but I need my vm's for very specific tasks so open them fullscreen, the only thing I have to worry about then is hitting enter before I type in the hud but the dash shortcuts work as expected because you can't see the main desktop one open.  It is annoying though but not the end of the world
 * BigRedS shudders at the thought of interacting with a gui vm
<dwatkins> BigRedS: likewise, I prefer using ssh/screen
<AlanBell> ah, ok it does work a bit better fullscreened
<BigRedS> I just don't know if my brain would manage
<ali1234> right, i have ubuntu-desktop^ installed and still exactly the same situation
<ali1234> the panel works in unity, does not work in gnome classic no effects, and i cannot test in gnome classic /w compiz because of the compiz bugs
<ali1234> (ie the reason i uninstalled compiz in the first place)
<ali1234> so it looks like compiz is the common factor here
<ali1234> i'm going to try fresh installs in VMs
<ali1234> will test 12.04 and 12.10
<ali1234> hmm... 12.04.1 right?
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap
<davmor2> AlanBell: Glad I could partially help for a change :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Of course now I need to be evil for a month to make up for it
<AlanBell> naturally davmor2
<davmor2> AlanBell: you in London at all from the 12-16?
<AlanBell> erm, probably could be
<AlanBell> no set plans, but could get there
<davmor2> I'm down for a canonical sprint that week :)
<AlanBell> ok, so which type of sprint is that?
<AlanBell> is it the "yay, lets party" type, or the "go away, we are busy" type
<davmor2> AlanBell: it's the impolite  version of UFO this is stupidly mentally busy,  but we are pretty much on our own for evening meals so I thought I might try and catch up with people in the Sowff rather than eating by myself :)
<AlanBell> ok, cool we should do something then
<AlanBell> I know there was a sprint in Dublin where a bunch went out for beers with the loco team
<davmor2> AlanBell: well I think there will be a couple of team meals one will be the Tuesday 13 iirc and there might be  a second that is made up of what was our old team but that is a maybe
<AlanBell> I can't do the wednesday
<davmor2> so Monday Thursday or Friday, I'm thinking Thursday might be best freeing up friday for you to go to a local pub :)
<AlanBell> Thursday is good, so that is the 15th
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeap looks like it
<davmor2> AlanBell: now to find out if Uncle popey will be free
<AlanBell> yeah, just have to wait for him to sober up I guess ;)
<davmor2> AlanBell: Sober up, he has to stop being drunk recover from the hangover and get a new liver before he can sober up :D  ahh UDS if the UBUFLU doesn't kill you the alcohol poisoning will :)
<AlanBell> yeah, shocking. I think more people should follow the abstemious example set by czajkowski
<Pendulum> Maybe the alcohol helps fight UBUFLU. It would explain why I got sickest at the UDS where I didn't drink at all
<AlanBell> I suspect it does
<bb15> hi all!
<AlanBell> hi bb15
<davmor2> hello bb15
<ali1234> ISOs downloaded and now installing the VMs...
<ali1234> wow, 12.10 is unbelivably slow in virtualbox
<ali1234> opening the dash takes over 10 seconds
<ali1234> ah i see you still get loads of adult content from the amazon search... i thought that was fixed
<davmor2> ali1234: what did you look up?
<ali1234> "fuc"
<ali1234> also, $swearword = no result, $swearword + ' ' = full results
<ali1234> just like how appending  space completely changes HUD results. i guess both systems were implemented by the same person.
<ali1234> let's suppose i'm looking for a "cock soup" recipe
<ali1234> "coc" -> irrelevant but harmless results
<ali1234> "cock" -> nothing at all
<ali1234> "cock " -> lots of highly offensive content
<mungojerry> cock a leekie
<mungojerry> well known soup
<ali1234> basically this filter is implemented in the worst way possible
<ali1234> anyway that's a problem for another time. back to testing this panel thing
<mungojerry> patches welcome
<ali1234> hahaha
<ali1234> why would i send a patch when this bug does not affect me since a) i don't use this software and b) i'm not offended by adult content
<AlanBell> I don't think it is implemented in the worst way possible
<AlanBell> I could do it much worse if I tried
<ali1234> how would you do it worse?
<AlanBell> whatever you search for you get a Rick Astley CD
<mungojerry> ali1234, you seem to care enough to try it and break it
<ali1234> accidentally reverse the test so it only returns potentially offensive content?
<davmor2> ali1234: well like it was before where it displayed anything no matter what was typed
<ali1234> davmor2: that would not be an implementation
<AlanBell> so, puzzle for the day, if I write a lens to search your OpenERP server for stuff, should it honour the don't serve internet results privacy setting?
<ali1234> what does "dont serve internet results" mean?
<ali1234> i suspect it should do
<AlanBell> it is an undocumented feature that was rushed in to fix complaints about the amazon search results in the dashs
<ali1234> Oh
<AlanBell> it is epically broken in concept, however it is what it is
<ali1234> i thought it was a setting on the openerp server, like robots.txt kind of thing
<AlanBell> no, in the privacy settings in system settings
<ali1234> yeah i know what you mean now
<ali1234> well
<AlanBell> it sets a key somewhere and the shopping/photo/music/video lenses have been hacked to look for that setting and turn themselves off
<ali1234> does your lens integrate into the top level dash search, or does user have to click on the specific icon to get it?
<AlanBell> could do both
<ali1234> well if the former then honour the setting. if the latter then don't
<davmor2> AlanBell: if you are writing a full lens then why not make it a toggle switch.  IE at the office you can search everything, on a site you only search the stuff the internet sees
<ali1234> no, you have the same confusion i did
<AlanBell> davmor2: this is about the thing in the privacy settings
<ali1234> it's not about the scope of the results it returns
<ali1234> it's about whether it works *at all*
<ali1234> i think the only sensible answer is to tell you not to bother writing lenses until they sort this stuff out
<AlanBell> the shipping lenses turn themselves off altogether davmor2
<AlanBell> well turn off their internet searches
<AlanBell> ali1234: that is a very fair point
<davmor2> AlanBell: ah right I have no idea then
<AlanBell> tbh it isn't documented how one is supposed to comply with the privacy settings anyway
<AlanBell> that is a feature that couldn't have been implemented any worse I feel
<ali1234> does the openerp search require a login?
<AlanBell> yes, it does
<ali1234> like, on the server? if so then you agreed to privacy policy when making an account
<AlanBell> and I need to figure out how to do that bit still
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> you know this could be real bad
<ali1234> if employer gives you a laptop with this lens
<AlanBell> openerp is something you would install on your own infrastructure, kind of like owncloud etc
<ali1234> now they can see EVERYTHING you search for
<ali1234> AlanBell: it's something your eployer would install or have installed for them
<AlanBell> heh, true
<ali1234> so now when you are searching monster.com in the dash your employer can see in the openerp log
<ali1234> that's HORRIBLE
<ali1234> so in this case, the lens must absolutely honour that setting
<AlanBell> yeah, it is, but that is the lens infrastructure
<ali1234> at the very least when returning results from multiple lenses
<gord> as we know, its impossible for them to know if you go to monster.com in your browser
<ali1234> if you can't distinguish where the search came from then disable it everywhere
<ali1234> gord: yes, it is
<AlanBell> I am not too bothered by the OMG logs!!! stuff really
<ali1234> why are you even asking this question then?
<AlanBell> because I am wondering what the behaviour should be when the checkbox is checked
<ali1234> the only sensible answer is the lens stops working
<AlanBell> I suspect you are right
<AlanBell> the shipping lenses only search local content when you have that checked
<ali1234> of course it isn't even just a problem of web browsing
<ali1234> they get logs of everything you search for not just websites
<AlanBell> I was just wondering whether people thing that checkbox means "don't search on SaaS websites of companies that might be evil"
<ali1234> nope
<AlanBell> or "don't search on anything that is an http request away"
<ali1234> it means don't perform any searches that go over the internet
<AlanBell> technically it means *nothing whatsoever*
<AlanBell> but I don't think anyone wants to know that right now
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but my local network != t'internet
<ali1234> it means "act as if all networks were disconnected"
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: that is exactly what I was pondering
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: It could search my mounted SMB shares.. that would rock
<ali1234> there is no way to distiguish the internet from any other lan
<MartijnVdS> (gvfs-mounted)
<AlanBell> the bottom line is that the checkbox is horrifically implemented and it should be a per-lens setting to say whether they can read global_search_change events or not
<ali1234> basically this type of confusion is what happens when you rush through unfinished features
<ali1234> and trying to figure out a workaround is just going to encourage more of the same
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Nah it wasn't rushed. You just weren't "in the loop"!
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<AlanBell> it was rushed
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you could use a link-local address to determine what's on-LAN and what's not on-LAN 8-)
<ali1234> so as a developer i recommend you say "no, i'm not implementing any lenses for this until it is fixed"
<AlanBell> Amazon search was pushed out at feature freeze and this was written and put in after freeze
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not perfect. but better than nothing
<AlanBell> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-dev/msg00536.html
<AlanBell> I have raised the issue itself
<AlanBell> I think I am coming round to your way of thinking ali1234
<ali1234> "If I want to buy stuff on  Amazon I want to click on the shopping lens in the lens bar and use 100%  of the dash for the shopping search results."
<ali1234> ... or even better just open a web browser and go to amazon.com
<ali1234> and not have to deal with poorly implemented profanity filters
<AlanBell> I actually like the way the lens searches amazon
<AlanBell> search as you type, plus it doesn't help amazon track me quite so much
<AlanBell> but meh, it isn't that exciting, sure a browser to amazon.com works well too
<AlanBell> I think the privacy thing is just a liability at the moment for lens writers
<AlanBell> I can publish the lens written to the API and it won't comply with the checkbox (so I am "wrong" and probably "evil")
<ali1234> search as you type is super slow though
<ali1234> the only system that does it and isn't super slow is google
<AlanBell> or I can read the source of a shipping lens and figure out how to comply with a feature I know to be a bad system
<AlanBell> search as you type is fine for me, but I have 70Mbit broadband
<AlanBell> that said, now that I have turned off internet results it is a fraction more responsive
<ali1234> it's not slow because of network speed, it's slow because it redraws the screen every time you press a key
<AlanBell> quite impressed that the shopping lens is still working, I figured Amazon would blacklist products.ubuntu.com fairly quickly
<ali1234> and i can type faster than llvm-pipe can redraw the dash
<AlanBell> oh, right
<ali1234> actually my mother can type faster than this
<ali1234> hmm 30mb of updates for Q and 220mb for P
<ali1234> hmm so the follow up makes the argument that "if you can run a program as a user..."
<ali1234> which is the same as the "we already have root" argument
<ali1234> that's a poor argument and here is why
<ali1234> if you can run any program as the user you can install some malware but that can be detected
<ali1234> however on ubuntu if you can run any program as a user you can install some malware right from the repositories and it looks legit, and nobody would ever know what you've done
<ali1234> for example if you release this openerp lens then mr bad guy doesn't need to write his own invisible lens, he can just use yours and it won't seem out of place
 * mgdm is going to install OpenERP at the weekend and have a play
<mgdm> it might suit someone I know
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> mgdm: cool, go for version 7
<mgdm> I shall, ta
<AlanBell> not release yet, but is getting close now
<AlanBell> mgdm: I can let you have a login on one of our dev boxes or something if you like
<AlanBell> I have it with HUD integration now
<mgdm> AlanBell: thanks, though I'll probably just put it on my laptop so I can have a poke around inside
<einonm> Here's a good one - my 12.04 resume/suspend didn't work, and after 4 shutdown resets I still have no pointer control, not via the touchpad or even when plugging in an external mouse
<AlanBell> mgdm: also there is the #openobject channel
<mgdm> AlanBell: cool
<einonm> ah that'll be my fault then, for using an rc1 kernel....works on 3.2. Panic over.
<kvarley> Just installed proprietary drivers on 12.10 (Samsung 535U3C A02UK) and now it just shows me a flashing _ on the screen. Any ideas?
<ali1234> k, confirmed. indicator-datetime settings does not work in gnome classic or gnome classic no effects on a fresh fully updated install of 12.04.1 or 12.10
<ali1234> also compiz still crashes when using gnome classic on 12.10
<kvarley> Ubuntu used to be rock solid
<kvarley> A bit of a pain to setup right but then it'd just work
<kvarley> Nowadays it seems to be the opposite
<mungojerry> debian is still solid
<kvarley> I'm having to use two scripts, one to get brightness control and one to get sound. It's like I'm using Ubuntu 8.04 again
<kvarley> Do vendor graphics drivers handle brightness control?
<SuperMatt> normally, yes
<kvarley> I might manually install the graphics drivers then
<mungojerry> which vide card
<kvarley> AMD A6-4455M APU
<ali1234> kvarley: i told you not to use 12.10 :)
<ali1234> just revert to 12.04 it works much better
<kvarley> ali1234: reckon this stuff will work on 12.04?
<kvarley> Oh yeah, you mentioned driver issues lol
<kvarley> Ok, reverting
<ali1234> try a live cd
<kvarley> My SSD is not having a happy birth
<kvarley> Been formatted twice already lol
<ali1234> is it pure SSD or SSD accelerator
<kvarley> ?
<kvarley> ali1234: It's a Crucial M4
<ali1234> SSD accelerator = HDD with SSD cache
<kvarley> Ah no, pure SSD
<ali1234> pure SSD then, should be ok
<kvarley> I know the key probably won't work but I'd like the silent mode function key to work in ubuntu. If it did then it'd be perfect
<kvarley> right now I'll settle for brightness control and sound tho
<kvarley> ali1234: Does 1204 work with UEFI?
<ali1234> i dunno
<kvarley> Just got invalid signature
<kvarley> Might be bad usb installer
<ali1234> it won't work with secure boot
<kvarley> Dammit
<ali1234> unless you whitelist it
<ali1234> or disable secure boot entirely
<kvarley> Do I need secure boot?
<ali1234> no, it doesn't do anything useful
<kvarley> Ok :)
<ali1234> actually that's not true
<ali1234> if you manually whitelist all the binaries you run then it does something useful
<ali1234> if you install without enabling setup mode using 12.10 which has been signed, you get virtually no benefits at all
<ali1234> basically under a securely configured UEFI system the 12.10 image wouldn't work either until you whitelisted it
<kvarley> ali1234: It installs ok, but when I did graphics drivers it failed
<kvarley> The bios settings are stupid
<kvarley> "Standard" or "Custom" mode
<kvarley> Why not just a disable?
<kvarley> Will windows 7 install on a machine with UEFI on?
<kvarley> Would be funny if it wouldn't
<dwatkins> no fair, fvwm95 fails to compile on Ubuntu.
<MartijnVdS> good, good.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: fvwm1 - Old version of the F(?) Virtual Window Manager
<ali1234> kvarley: windows 7 won't install on a secure boot windows 8 system
<kvarley> ali1234: hehe
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I can use fvwm or fvwm2, but fvwm95 and fvwm98 fail to compile completely, the taskbar module gives an error compiling.
<ali1234> it will install if you whitelist it or turn off secure boot however
<kvarley> Was it Microsoft who came up with secure boot?
<ali1234> yes
<kvarley> I hate them even more now
<ali1234> and it is microsoft who decides which software is allowed to run
<kvarley> The BIOS is confusing
<ali1234> in the default configuration that is
<kvarley> No disable options
<ali1234> you don't do it in the bios
<kvarley> Oh?
<ali1234> they dont even have a bios
<kvarley> Oh
<ali1234> what does the screen you are on look like?
<kvarley> I'm in the BIOS on the Security page which has an option for Secure Boot mode
<ali1234> ok?
<kvarley> Secure Boot Mode - Standard or Custom
<kvarley> When I select Custom loads of options come up
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> i'm not going to attempt to tell you how to fix it
<kvarley> lol
<ali1234> instead you should return the laptop and when they ask why say "because i can't install ubuntu"
<ali1234> then buy a laptop that is't windows 8
<kvarley> I installed ubuntu on it tho
<ali1234> and it didn't work
<kvarley> And it ran
<ali1234> so say "because i can't install ubuntu LTS"
<kvarley> Until I did proprietary drivers
<kvarley> This is the 3rd laptop model I've had now
<ali1234> like i said before, if you figure out a workaround you just encourage more of this
<kvarley> Bah :/
<ali1234> the only thing they understand is "we lost $$$ because of secure boot"
<kvarley> This is annoying as hell, installed an SSD in here today as well
<ali1234> btw i highly recommend lenovo ultrabook with windows 7
<ali1234> they come with SSD already fit and no secure boot
<kvarley> I spent Â£498 on this ultra thin laptop
<kvarley> How much are the lenovos?
<ali1234> about the same
<ali1234> every single page on lenovo website is 404 except for the top index
<kvarley> This is annoying
<kvarley> I hate Microsoft
<kvarley> And hate laptops
<ali1234> laptops are pretty rubbish when you think about it
<kvarley> True
<ali1234> spending loads of money on one is pointless. i mean how much do you really use it?
<ali1234> if you only use it in the same place you should have got a desktop
<BigRedS> I'm increasingly not using three different desktops, and just use my laptop
<BigRedS> I don't think I'll bother getting another desktop in future, really, just get a laptop and, if I particularly fancy it, a couple of docking stations
<kvarley> I don't understand what secure boot does
<kvarley> If it's not in the BIOS
<ali1234> the trouble with that is that a laptop that is as powerful as a desktop costs about twice as much as a desktop and a cheap laptop
<BigRedS> It prevents unsigned binaries being booted from
<BigRedS> kvarley: it's only "not in the bios" because it's in EFI which replaces the bios
<kvarley> So with secure boot on Ubuntu shouldn't run at all
<BigRedS> it's in the same sort of place as the bios was/is
<kvarley> Ah
<kvarley> This is a headache
<ali1234> no, with secure boot on ubuntu 12.10 will run because it has been blessed by microsoft
<BigRedS> ali1234: I don't remember the last time I needed more power out of my PC
<kirrus> It's the first layer of interface between the hardware and the software of the operating system
<ali1234> but uubuntu 12.04 will not
<BigRedS> Actually, I do, it was 2004
<ali1234> fedora latests will run, windows 7 will not
<ali1234> but in the custom menu you can allow unsigned software to run
<davmor2> ali1234: if you are me, all day every week day ref how often do you use a laptop
<kvarley> So I should technically be able to install 12.10?
<BigRedS> kvarley: There's a good deal of explanations from at least Fedora and several kernel types about how it works and what it does
<BigRedS> which are probably easier to follow than IRC
<ali1234> davmor2: is that a question?
<ali1234> kvarley: yes you can install 12.10. but it doesn't work because it is incredibly buggy
<kvarley> I don't know what to do now then
<einonm> kvarley: There should be a menu option to disable running signed bootloaders
<davmor2> <ali1234> spending loads of money on one is pointless. i mean how much do you really use it? my reply is <davmor2> ali1234: if you are me, all day every week day ref how often do you use a laptop
<einonm> kvarley: Although the menu is vendor specific, so there's no real standard guide
<BigRedS> yeah, and it's not *required*
<ali1234> davmor2: you use a laptop as a desktop replacement?
 * BigRedS does/has done
<davmor2> ali1234: I use 2 laptops and 4 desktops
<kvarley> einonm: I see: Platform Key; Key Exchange Database; Authorized Signature Database; Forbidden Signature Database.
<BigRedS> As soon as I find my third laptop power lead I'll be sticking my docking station at work
<ali1234> davmor2: so you use multiple computers at the same time?
<BigRedS> and then, now that I've worked out how to make the network work under Windows, I'll basically not use desktops
<einonm> kvarley: One way is to add your own key to the DB, but there should be a disable option too. Are there any super menus / sub menus?
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap but my 2 main are my main desktop and my main laptop the rest are basically test boxes for different scenarios that you can't properly replicate with a vm
<ali1234> personally i avoid using multiple computers at the same time by using virtual machines. something which is painful on a laptop because: tiny screen, not enough ram, not enough cpu cores, and probably no hardware vx
<ali1234> or you could buy a laptop that does all that, but it would cost about 4x an equivalent desktop
<BigRedS> I have Â£1k of laptop
<ali1234> ^ exactly
<BigRedS> and it does what I'd use 2 desktops a laptop and a machine somewhere on the interent for
<davmor2> ali1234: I do on this laptop, it's an I3 3 gig of ram more than enough
<ali1234> lol
<BigRedS> since I can't boot up a VM on my work PC and then take it home
<ali1234> no, 3 gig is not even enough to run ONE copy of ubuntu these days
<ali1234> perhaps if you run the 32 bit version it might be
<BigRedS> I have 4GB RAM and I frequently run a Ubuntu and a few VMs
<BigRedS> Unity, to boot
<BigRedS> I think it's only got a couple of cores, too
<davmor2> ali1234: I'm the same as BigRedS
<ali1234> what do you do in those VMs btw?
<ali1234> i'm guessing the answer is not "open firefox"
<BigRedS> No
<BigRedS> they don't have UIs
<kvarley> einonm: These are my options http://kvarley.co.uk/tmp/secureboot.custom.menu.jpg
<davmor2> ali1234: I open Software Center a lot
<BigRedS> I used to have a couple that did gui things, thinking about it. When it was a Debian machine and I wanted to confirm bugs under Ubuntus
<BigRedS> But, no. Mostly it's for testing packages and scripts for installing/configuring things
<BigRedS> I get that it's not enough for *you*, but I absolutely don't think it's the general case that a laptop can't work as a desktop replacement
<ali1234> i have a VM that i need to build a firmware image on fedora. it peaks out at about 4GB memory usage, with no UI
<ali1234> oh sure. a laptop can replace a desktop for most people. however most people do not hang around in this IRC channel
<BigRedS> I'm not even going to begin to guess at this demographic, it keeps surprising me
<shauno> I haven't had a desktop since 2004
<einonm> kvarley: Hmm, ok. What options are there for the 'Default Key Provisioning' option?
<ali1234> kvarley: "delete the PK" is the option you need
<ali1234> but if you do this and mess up the computer it isn't my fault, ok?
<kvarley> einonm: "Enabled" or "Disabled"
<kvarley> ali1234: I will get the key to file first :)
<ali1234> deleting the PK will disable secure boot entirely
<einonm> kvarley: DONT delete any keys at this point
<kvarley> einonm: Ok
<einonm> you will at least need to back it up first
<ali1234> w/e. deleting the PK is the way you disable secure boot according to the spec
<ali1234> what you can also do is go to "authorized signature database" and "append signature to DB" and then add the signaure of ubuntu 12.04
<ali1234> and then it will be allowed to run even though it isn't signed
<kvarley> Where do I get that signature?
<ali1234> this is called whitelisting
<ali1234> well that's a good question
<ali1234> it might be able to calculate it for you
<kvarley> Is it not easier to get the PK from file
<kvarley> Save it to an SD card
<kvarley> Then delete the PK all together
<ali1234> see that option "install default secure boot keys"
<einonm> A signature is a hash of an image encrypted by a key
<ali1234> can you guess what that does?
<kvarley> ali1234: Oh, Microsofts way of staying on your pc?
<einonm> so you'll need to have the private and public parts of any key in order to create a signature
<ali1234> false
<kvarley> ali1234: Wipes all keys?
<ali1234> kvarley: no, it puts back the microsoft key
<kvarley> That's what I meant by microsofts way of staying on your pc ;)
<ali1234> einonm: you dn't need key pairs to whitelist a binary because it only checks the hash of the binary
<ali1234> if you had a key pair you could just enroll it as a KEK instead, and the authorized signature database would not be needed
<kvarley> ali1234: I have got the PK file on my SD and now it's being backed up
<kvarley> So am I *theoretically* safe to delete the PK file?
<ali1234> incidentally all of this is documented quite well in the UEFI spec, which is publicly available if you just enter any fake email address
<ali1234> http://www.uefi.org/specs/
<ali1234> you can also play around with it in qemu by following the guides on my website
<kvarley> Ok, thanks
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/playing-with-uefi-secure-boot-part-1-ovmf/
<ali1234> secure boot is only a tiny part of the UEFI spec
 * BigRedS notes that down
<BigRedS> All my exposure to UEFI so far has been mjg ranting about it
<ali1234> yeah well his ranting inspired me to find out for myself
<ali1234> not just him
<kvarley> But basically if I delete the Platform Key file I should be able to boot anything?
<BigRedS> ah, it put me off ever going anywhere near it :)
<ali1234> basically nobody seemed to really know what they were talking about
<ali1234> kvarley: yes
<ali1234> kvarley: if you boot a windows setup disk it will probably lock down the machine again
<kvarley> ali1234: Do I also need to delete the Key Exchange DB, Authorized Sig DB and Forbidden Sig DB?
<ali1234> no
<kvarley> Ok
<einonm> ali1234: How do you know deleting the PK will disable secure boot?
<kvarley> I have no windows 8 disc to boot anyway
<ali1234> einonm: because the spec says it will
<ali1234> it doesn't actually disable it, it puts it into setup mode
<ali1234> that's effectively the same thing though
<einonm> In my experience, there is both a hardware switch and a key required for secure boot.
<einonm> Ah, ok. That makes more sense
<ali1234> in setup mode anything can run, anything can enroll keys, etc
<einonm> A bit crap though, as physical access to the machine means that you can always circumvent it
<kvarley> I didn't think it was possible but I actually hate Microsoft even more. They're killing one of the good things about PCs
<ali1234> yes, that's a requirement of UEFI
<ali1234> for windows 8 logo certification on x86 secure boot MUST be able to be circumvented if you have physical access
<ali1234> UEFI spec says that if secure boot may be circumvented the user must prove they have physical access ie by pressing a key on the physical keyboard... doesn't need to be a key switch. just the action f using the menus is enough.
<einonm> That sounds like it could be easily hacked in software
<ali1234> however the spec doesn't define it it should be possible to disable it or not
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> the whole point of UEFI is to prevent any usigned sofware running
<kvarley> Surprised Microsoft just didn't lock it down totally
<ali1234> for ARM they have done. the logo requirements there require that secure boot cannot be disabled at all
<kvarley> In theory I can see why they thought it was good
<BigRedS> It's not really their spec to do that, is it?
<ali1234> wo's spec?
<BigRedS> MS's
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> however logo certification for windows 8 is
<BigRedS> I suppose the Windows logo is, but none of UEFI is
<ali1234> well MS did design large parts of UEFI
<ali1234> like the signature format
<ali1234> is MS authenticode
<ali1234> and UEFI executables are windows PE
<ali1234> on MAC UEFI the executables can also be mac binaries but nothing supports that but macs
<ali1234> and it's not in the spec
<einonm> so are MS only allowing signed apps to run nowadays as well?
<ali1234> einonm: not apps. just drivers and anything that can run in kernel mode
<ali1234> kvarley: i think "default key provisioning" might be useful to you. i found a manual for your bios but it's in chinese
<kvarley> What does that do?
<einonm> that works provided that there's no security holes in your kernel. Which I doubt is true
<ali1234> kvarley: trying to find out. i *think* it might automatically add the hash of unsigned exes to the authorized database, thus allowing you to install any OS you want without disabling secure boot
<ali1234> kvarley: "This item enables or disables you to force OEM default secure boot keys if system is in setup mode."
<ali1234> that's not what you want at all :(
<ali1234> kvarley: so where are you up to?
<einonm> It looks like the 'custom' secure boot mode allows you to add your own key to the KEK...which then allows you to add a signature to the DB (a hash of an executable signed by your key)
<einonm> That's well tricky for your average user.
<AlanBell> anyone know about the online accounts tool?
<ali1234> i've seen it. i have no idea what it does
<ali1234> though i think it is somehow related to webapps
<AlanBell> well not entirely, but it does the oauth stuff with twitter/google/etc then desktop things can use that (like gwibber/empathy etc)
<AlanBell> but they all seem to be consumer identity providors
<ali1234> einonm: not quite. the PK controls access to the KEK. any exe signed by a key in the KEK will run. the DB and DBX are whitelist/blacklist with exceptions/overrides and the physical user can edit them at any time. person who already has a key in KEK can edit the DB/DBX without physical presence, but if they've got a key in KEK already then they only really need this power to blacklist known bad exes that they've previously signed (ie revoke signatures)
<ali1234> einonm: or in other words, updates to the KEK must be signed by PK. updates to DB/DBX must be signed by KEK or PK, and exes must be signed by KEK or PK BUT if the user is physically present they can override all that on win8 certified x86 machines
<einonm> ali1234: I read it as the custom mode disables the check of keys in the KEK - which I assume are signed by the PK
<ali1234> einonm: no, that's not right
<ali1234> custom mode doesn't do anything except let the user override everything iff they are physically present
 * AlanBell likes the word iff
<ali1234> whether secure boot is applied or not is controlled by the presence or not of a PK
<ali1234> yes it was not a typo :)
<einonm> so what does custom mode entail?
<ali1234> nothing
<ali1234> it's just a menu where you can enroll your own keys
<ali1234> basically selecting the "custom mode" menu item is a way that the user proves they are physically present
<ali1234> then they can do whatever they want
<einonm> That sounds suspect, as it looks like you can edit the DB and KEKs without removing the PK
<ali1234> you can if you are physically present
<einonm> custom mode appears to disable the KEK hash checking using the PK, without removing the PK
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> yes, it does
<ali1234> in fact that hash check does not exist
<ali1234> the KEK must be signed by the PK in order for it to be enrolled automatically by software updates
<ali1234> ie not physically present user
<ali1234> however, once the KEK is enrolled the hash is not checked
<ali1234> so if physical user manually enrolls their own KEK using custom mode, then can then exit custom mode and the KEK will still work
<einonm> that's quite bad, and leaves the KEK DB open to abuse if so
<ali1234> but again this only applies to physically present users, who can override everything anyway, including removing or replacing the PK any time they want
<ali1234> it's open to abuse by physically present users
<ali1234> if you can call that abuse
<kvarley> ali1234: I'm now booting from USB - Ubuntu 12.04
<kvarley> ali1234: No gui shown, just command prompt
<kvarley> ali1234: A shell with ubuntu@ubuntu
<ali1234> kvarley: yeah sounds like it's working
<kvarley> lol
<ali1234> no idea why it's dumped you at a shell
<kvarley> I did live mode
<kvarley> I'll try install
<ali1234> you need to check for specific instructions for UEFI installs
<einonm> there is a chance that if the KEK is stored open and unhashed, it can be accessed remotely. Only a keyladde rwith root at the PK would be secure
<ali1234> like there's a special ISO for UEFI i think
<ali1234> einonm: reading from the KEK is not a problem it only contains public keys, as with the PK
<ali1234> since the KEK and the PK are stored in the same keystore, a chain of trust doesn't even help you, since if they can change the KEK they can change the PK
<kvarley> ali1234: doing install instead of live got me a gui
<einonm> ...but if you can put any public key, bare, in the KEK, you've won.
<ali1234> einonm: yes. that is true
<einonm> the PK would be stored in on-chip storage, and never accessed directly once in
<ali1234> einonm: in order to do that you would have to break UEFI platform security
<einonm> ..but it's an attack vector that you don;t need to have
<ali1234> the PK and the KEK are stored exactly the same way, and accessed at the same times (since either can be used to sign executables)
<ali1234> literally anything that applies to one applies to the other
<ali1234> also, how are you proposing to hack the keystore when the computer won't let you run any unsigned code in kernel mode?
<einonm> I doubt that. There is a reason why there is only one PK, and that's because it's the root key and should only be used once. Generally, it's value is never seen outside of the chip
<ali1234> the reason there is only one PK is because you only need one PK
<einonm> ??
<ali1234> the PK is a public key
<ali1234> it's value is known everywhere
<ali1234> knowing the value gets you absolutely nothing
<einonm> That's not the way MIPS or ARM chips work, AFAIK
<ali1234> MIPS and ARM chips do not use UEFI
<einonm> no, but they do secure boot - and the theory is the same
<ali1234> they are not implemented the same way
<ali1234> but this is irrelevant
<ali1234> the spec makes all this very clear
<ali1234> the only things you put into the secure boot keystore are public keys and signatures
<einonm> yes - with the signatures signed by the root key
<ali1234> yes, the root key which is stored in an extremely secure environment at microsoft
<ali1234> and absolutely does not go anywher near your computer
<kvarley> ali1234: Ubuntu 12.04.1 installed. Landed me at a shell.
<einonm> the root private key, sure. The root public key is this PK
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and the public key is public
<ali1234> in detail it works like this
<AlanBell> "16:50 < ali1234> the reason there is only one PK is because you only need one PK" - the reason is because Microsoft only need one PK
<ali1234> that's also not true
<ali1234> microsoft only needs one KEK
<ali1234> anyway this is th way it works
<ali1234> UEFI has an API just like how the BIOS has an API
<ali1234> operating systems can access it
<ali1234> when an operating system wants to change what is in the KEK database it must use this API
<ali1234> any calls to this API must be signed by the PK private key or the UEFI will reject it
<ali1234> thus, only the holder of the PK may update the KEK remotely
<ali1234> if you want to modify the DB or DBX then your API calls can be signed by PK private key, or KEK private key
<ali1234> how ever, if the user can go into the custom menu they can do whatever they want, by design
<ali1234> none of this compromises the security of the device unless you are worried about physical theft etc
<ali1234> it's also worth noting that if the keystore is compromised this will compromise ANY system which uses code signing
<ali1234> where compromise = someone puts something in it that shouldnt be
<ali1234> reading the keystore is not a problem as it's all public keys
<ali1234> the whole thing actually works exactly the same way as SSL websites
<ali1234> your computer throws up an error if it does not recognise the certificate
<ali1234> (of the website)
<ali1234> if an attack could put the website certificate into your keystore then their attack site would not display that warning
<ali1234> but if they can do that you've already lost anyway
<ali1234> attacker can also compromise the certificate authority who holds the private key
<ali1234> so as i said, the UEFI has an API for accessing the databases, and the spec is quite clear that the DB must be stored in a secure manner. it's not just stored on the hard drive or anything like that
<einonm> ali1234: there is a secret key in the chip as well, I guess that they don't need to tell you about this. That's the root key I was assuming that PK is. Makes more sense.
<ali1234> secret key in what chip?
<einonm> any chip that needs to create a secure keychain.
<ali1234> not at all
<ali1234> that is absolutely not how public key cryptography works
<ali1234> there may be secret keys involved with the security of the keystore but that is not defined by the spec
<AlanBell> there are crypto devices that have an on-chip key, but they are for signing things, not reading signatures
<ali1234> yes, private key smart card
<ali1234> those are the things that microsoft keeps in a locked safe in redmond
<einonm> So how does the chip verify that the PK is correct? Are you assuming that in a particular place in flash mem, whatever number is there is the PK?
<ali1234> what do you mean?
<ali1234> "correct"
<AlanBell> so how messed up is the world if Microsoft forget where they put the keys?
<ali1234> the hardware doesn't verify that PK is correct
<ali1234> it does not verify PK at all in fact
<ali1234> that's why the only way to change it is by a physically present user
<ali1234> it's the root of the chain of trust
<ali1234> in fact that's why you have to delete it to disable secure boot
<celesteh> Hello, I've got a LaCie disk that is FAT fomratted that I know works with a mac. I'd like to use it with my ubuntu laptop (running GNOME 3), but when I plug it in, it doesn't mount and fdisk -l doesn't list it. Any ideas what I should do?
<ali1234> because it is only possible to load a PK if there is not aready a PK loaded
<ali1234> and only a physical present user can delete the PK
<AlanBell> celesteh: how does it plug in?
<ali1234> and yeah it is stored in a piece of flash somewhere, but the CPU can't access it. only the UEFI bios chip can access it. the CPU must use UEFI API
<celesteh> USB.  I know the USB connection works, since I mounted it that way on a mac
<ali1234> and obviously that does not have "read PK" function
<ali1234> i mean "write PK"
<AlanBell> celesteh: is there anything odd about LaCie disks or is it a regular USB hard drive?
<AlanBell> celesteh: lsusb might show something interesting
<AlanBell> celesteh: also dmesg should show it being added
<celesteh> AlanBell lsusb does show it.  I thought they were normal, but rugged hard drives. I have a different one and it works fine.
<celesteh> AlanBell when I unplug it, it doesn't seem to get unlisted from lsusb
<einonm> ali1234: Blimey. Not very secure then, is it? I assume the ARM version is different
<ali1234> einonm: it depends on your definition of "secure"
<ali1234> if your definition is "the owner of the device cannot ever modify anything in the keystore" then you need to buy windows 8 ARM to get that
<SuperMatt> don't be silly
<SuperMatt> Windows 8 ARM doesn't exist
<SuperMatt> it lives under the less confusing name: Windows RT
<AlanBell> celesteh: have a look at bug 875523
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 875523 in linux (Ubuntu) "LaCie usb storage doesn't mount" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/875523
<ali1234> einonm: i'd be interested to hear how you think you will break UEFI secure boot on x86 without being physically present at the machine
<AlanBell> how does it define physically present?
<einonm> ali1234: Knowing that physical presence is all that's needed, I'd probably work on sorting that out without resorting to hacking the thing.
<ali1234> the user has to press a physical buttn on the device
<celesteh> alanbell: thanks!  I don't suppose there's a work around?  I got this disk in order to backup my linux machine so I could go to the new LTS!
<AlanBell> oh, I guess "able to type at the keyboard prior to any peripherals being turned on"
<ali1234> einonm: so in order to install some malware on user's machines, you are going to break into all the users houses and install it
<AlanBell> celesteh: well apart from upgrading . . .
<ali1234> AlanBell: yes exactly
<ali1234> AlanBell: a physical sliding switch like chromebooks have is another possibility
<celesteh> AlanBell: haha, I got this to enable the upgrade. lol. alas.
<AlanBell> I think you will have to be brave then celesteh :)
<einonm> I'm used to secure boot being a bit more...secure. On some systems, breaking into one is all you need to do. TV STB's for example - once you have the content or content encryption keys, you're free to broadcast on the internet and make lots of money. So physical access should not be a barrier to security.
<celesteh> AlanBell: thanks for your help. I could not figure this out!
<ali1234> einonm: remember that UEFI spec does not specify whether physical user is allowed to override. MS win8 certification for x86 does
<AlanBell> einonm: those are decryption keys, not encryption keys
<ali1234> MS win8 certification for ARM says exactly the opposite, physical user must NOT be allowed to override
<einonm> AlanBell: yes, your point being...? If you have them from compromising a STB, you can broadcast them and allwo everyone to decrypt
<ali1234> and then you have your stb style locked down system
<einonm> ali1234: my assumption was that x86 secure boot was as good. Obviously not.
<AlanBell> so keys come in two halves, and can be used for encrypting, decrypting, signing and verifying signatures
<ali1234> you mean x86 windows 8
<AlanBell> and you need the right end of the key for the operation you are trying to perform
<ali1234> if the device isn't sold with windows 8 you can do whatever you want
<ali1234> including burning the PK in a mask ROM
<einonm> AlanBell: only if it's asymmetric encryption
<AlanBell> on secure boot the thing you are trying to do is verify signatures. The secret bit is in Microsoft, the public bit is everywhere and not a secret.
<AlanBell> yeah, this is assuming public/private keys mostly
<ali1234> the bootloaders that run on UEFI are not even encrypted
<AlanBell> so for broadcast it gets encrypted with a key and the decription key is widely distributed but is still kept secret by hardware so that other people can't decrypt stuff with it
<ali1234> the goal of secure boot is not to hide anything. it'snot to protect content with DRM
<einonm> AlanBell:  no sure, but an extra step that can be taken is to store a hash of your public key in the chip, and not allow boot unless presented by the right trusted PK
<ali1234> the goal is to allow the hardware to verify that the software is trustworthy
<AlanBell> that would be tivoish, yes
<ali1234> einonm: you just described exactly what secure boot does
<ali1234> "hash of your public key" this makes no sense
<ali1234> but except for that, the rest is right
<AlanBell> I know what you mean einonm, you are expecting the PK to be burned into the silicon
<ali1234> storing a hash of the public key doesn't add any security unless it is signed by another key
<ali1234> then that other key needs to be hashed and signed by another key
<AlanBell> it just doesn't need to be burned in to perform the task of signature verification
<ali1234> and then it's just signatures all the way down
<einonm> pfft..yes, anyway. Put at least the root key in the chip and everything goes from there
<ali1234> the root key is what the PK is
<ali1234> we are going in circles
<einonm> that would explain the dizziness
<einonm> I think the only difference to systems I've been used to is that the PK isn't in OTP flash, and can be removed.
<einonm> which is then an obvious way to try and attack the system
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/pad.html pumpkin \o/
<bootlkjgf> Someone's coming in the door Alan !
<AlanBell> bootlkjgf: yes, they are :)
<AlanBell> there will be more turning up soon
<bootlkjgf> Nice pumpkin anyway !
<ali1234> einonm: nothing in UEFI spec says the PK cannot be in OTP
<davmor2> AlanBell: does the light stay light or only when the camera is being viewed?
 * AlanBell files Bug #1074440
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1074440 in quickly-lens-templates (Ubuntu) "does not support the privacy preference for no online results " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074440
<AlanBell> davmor2: what light?
<davmor2> AlanBell: did the camera not have a light on it?
<AlanBell> it is infra red, and yes, they are on all the time in the dark
<AlanBell> and they draw about 1w
<AlanBell> so it is 3w during the day and 4w at night (measured at the plug)
<davmor2> AlanBell: nice
<bootlkjgf> There's no way that car going past was doing 30 m.p.h. !
<einonm> ali1234: ok...but if it were, and you can't change the PK, would you be able to add any new exe signatures without the PK private key?
 * bootlkjgf wonders why there is no 'donate' button on the webcam page ?
<AlanBell> einonm: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/ lots of info about secure boot
<AlanBell> bootlkjgf: well because it is just my page for looking at my front door, nothing of interest there really
<AlanBell> bootlkjgf: http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/ you can get your own camera using that amazon affiliate code if you want
<bootlkjgf> 'my page' ... I've just bookmarked it, sorry.
<bootlkjgf> will do
<AlanBell> oh, look more people loitering
<einonm> AlanBell: Thanks...I have scanned through that before. I think that talks about the bit of code that's booted once the sigs have all checkout out OK
<AlanBell> knock knock
<bootlkjgf> oh dear, looks like a sony phone (dunno) // definately not andriod afaik
<AlanBell> zachary left the gate open
<bootlkjgf> Must get *bill* to shut it for you ;)
<bootlkjgf> That tree looks like the gnewsense tree  .. you must put it on your google plus image page !
<davmor2> AlanBell: You mean you haven't fitted the retractable arm to it yet
<ali1234> einonm: that is also not defined in the spec. on a windows 8 ARM certified machine the answer is no.
<bootlkjgf> AlanBell, That dustybin looks full near the gate .. Do you get billed by the weight where you live, then ?
<AlanBell> no, we have a regular bin, a full size one for recylable stuff and a small green bin for food waste
<bootlkjgf> oh ok
<AlanBell> and yeah, it is a pretty cool tree, it is a japanese maple with red leaves
<AlanBell> so, given that I have this camera, which can pan/tilt and take videos and snapshots, what interesting things should I do with it?
<bootlkjgf> v. cool  BTW I tried to save an image of it on chrome ... and it wants to save  in a .cgi file .. can i use ?program to view it ?
<einonm> ali1234: So if PK is used to add new KEK keys only, and this mechanism can only be disabled by removing PK, we can't add any new KEK keys? Or does setting custom mode also crap over those checks?
<ali1234> einonm: you;ve missed the point. the custom menu is not required to be present
<AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk:9090/snapshot.cgi is a single image (it is a jpeg)
<bootlkjgf> interesting things to-do list ... No. 1  Where are the penguins ? Tell a story about their  adventures .
<AlanBell> the the video stream is mjpeg
<ali1234> the reason there have the database with different types of keys is for software like "ubuntu installer"
<ali1234> the idea is if the machine is in setup mode then the ubuntu installer enrolls the PK and the KEK (possibly locking the machine to only run ubuntu forever more, but that's implementation specific)
<bootlkjgf> AlanBell, Can you do the same one of the tree in the day time and email me ?
<ali1234> the ubuntu installer being a normal piece of software like it is currently
<ali1234> it accesses UEFI through a hardware API
<bootlkjgf> E: 3rdwiki@gmail.com
<ali1234> like ACPI, or BIOS etc
<ali1234> or UPNP or any of those
<AlanBell> bootlkjgf: sure :)
<ali1234> the key checks apply when software is manipulating the key database
<ali1234> the custom menu trumps everything because it runs at a lower level
<ali1234> but nothing says that custom menu even has to exist
<einonm> ali1234: Ok, but there is a signed hash of the installer/shim/exe that's signed using a key in the KEK?
<ali1234> if it does not exist and there is no way to delete the PK, then your machine is locked down in the way you're used to
<ali1234> einonm: yes and that signed hash is appended to the exe
<ali1234> it's signed using the private half of the KEK (which user does not have) and then verified using the public half (which is stored in the UEFI keystore on user's machine)
<ali1234> the signature, if not appended to the exe, can also be stored in the DB
<ali1234> the signature can also be put into the DBX to ban that exe from running even though it's signed
<ali1234> all this can be done from the operating system, provided all the API requests are signed with the PK or the KEK private half, ass appropriate
<ali1234> again, the custom menu ovverrides everything
<AlanBell> so Microsoft has a remote kill switch for ubuntu (if you dual boot)
<ali1234> yeah pretty much
<ali1234> they have a remote killswitch for everythnig
<AlanBell> lovely
<einonm> ali1234: so if the PK is in OTP, and you don't have the private part of the PK, you can't add any KEK and therefore add any valid sigs in the DB...so no booting your exe's
<ali1234> einonm: as long as the UEFI menu system does not have that "custom" menu, which all windows 8 x86 machines are required to have in some form
<ali1234> but then, windows 8 x86 machines aren't allowd to have PK in OTP either
<ali1234> but the point is this is defined by microsoft, not UEFI spec
<ali1234> and even the way it's set up for x86 still prvides useful security if you self sign everything
<einonm> ali1234: ok. But I'm confused now. I'm sure you said there's nothing in the spec about OTP PK's
<ali1234> einonm: there isn't
<ali1234> there's the UEFI spec, and there's the microsoft windows 8 certification program for x86 laptops. these are two entirely different documents
<einonm> ali1234: contradicts "ali1234: but then, windows 8 x86 machines aren't allowd to have PK in OTP either"?
<bootlkjgf> AlanBell, Oh Wait .. I've got it ::: Where are the Wombles ????????
<bootlkjgf> ;)
<ali1234> in order to achieve windows 8 logo certification, a x86 laptop must: 1. follow all of the UEFI spec. 2. allow the PK to be cleared by a physically present user
<einonm> ah, right.
<ali1234> and a bunch of other conditions
<ali1234> for windows 8 ARM hardware it is exactly the opposite
<ali1234> it must 1. follow UEFI spec, 2. NOT allow user to clear the PK
<einonm> that would do it. How to make a machine completely useless.
<AlanBell> yeah, the ARM windows machines come pre-bricked
<ali1234> the point is UEFI isn't particularly bad
<einonm> And you got to pay for the privilege :)
<ali1234> it's all about the implementation
<ali1234> the multi-signature issues are a bit bad but that could be fixed and can definitely be worked around in way that satisfy everyone
<ali1234> in particular the claim that everyne needs the MS key is not true on compliant x86 hardware
<ali1234> it's possible to self sign everything
<ali1234> it's a lot of work but if you need that kind of security it's not going to be a big problem for you
<AlanBell> ali1234: would that mean you can't use graphics cards that are signed or something?
<einonm> No, the only problem seem to be with those who want to run another OS on it.
<ali1234> no, that's precisely not the problem
<ali1234> some claim that you need the other OS signed by microsoft, or turn off security all together. neither is true
<ali1234> the third option of self signing everything with your own PK pair is entirely possible, but a lot of work
<ali1234> you have to self sign not just the OS software but also your video card bios etc (what AlanBell was talking about) but even these things are possible using the DB
<einonm> I disagree. It is a problem if you don't understand computers, and just want to run another OS - having taken that particular decision.
<ali1234> you don't need this level of security unless you are the IT architect for a large banking institution or something
<ali1234> if you are that, and you "don't understand computers" then you have bigger problems
<ali1234> if you just want to run another OS you can run ubuntu signed by microsoft or turn off UEFI entirely
<ali1234> the point is that some people claimed these things would be impossible. but they are not. they are just hard. like all security. it is a tradeoff between security and convenience
<dubac0> i have a dicital recorderthat records sound in wma how to convert or transcode to one of the following formats .mp3, .aiff, .wav, .flac, .aac, or .ogg files?
<ali1234> dubac0: first step is to PLAY it on ubuntu. i suggest mplayer for that
<dubac0> i can play it
<ali1234> in what software?
<AlanBell> dubac0: I would import it to audacity, chop it to length and export it from there
<dubac0> vlc
<ali1234> do you need a batch solution for mutiple files or a simple GUI for just a couple of files?
<einonm> The scenario I'm talking about is the one where I give a Linux USB stick and tell someone to just try it. That's not possible anymore. People with 'problems' should be able to use Linux too
<ali1234> einonm: it's fine if you give them a ubuntu 12.10 stick it will work. or fedora. or opensuse
<dubac0> just one
<dubac0> AlanBell, tack
<dubac0> im doing a language course and so this is important (need feed back on my alfabet
<ali1234> yeah try audacity i guess
<ali1234> according to forums VLC has a menu option to "convert/save as"
<dubac0> AlanBell, http://soundcloud.com/sara-griffin-1/alphabetet-20121102 this can be seen by you?
<AlanBell> yup
<davmor2> dubac0: you can use dir2ogg if you want ogg vorbis file which in turn uses vlc backend
<Laney> why hello st pancras
<dubac0> AlanBell, thanks
<einonm> it's Bond time!
<ali1234> interesting. so the indicator-datetime only shows in unity by design, and the limitation is set in the .desktop. and all those people who swore it worked for them earlier today were just confused.
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/indicatorclassic.png
<ali1234> what does that prove?
<ali1234> click on time & date settings, notice that it doesn't work the way it does in unity...
<AlanBell> takes you to the overall settings page, and if you go to time and date you don't get the controls for the indicator
<ali1234> exactly
<AlanBell> but if you turn on the calendar when in a unity session it shows up in a classic session
<AlanBell> in the indicator itself
<ali1234> yes, if you load up unity, run the settings panel, log out, log in to classic, the settings are preserved
<ali1234> you can also force the right settings panel by doing XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Unity gnome-control-center
<ali1234> then you get Time & Date instead of Date and Time
<AlanBell> so you do
<AlanBell> so is this a gnome problem?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> well, yes
<AlanBell> as in a gnome saying "no we won't accept your code"
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> in as much as it's a problem of canonical doing exactly the same thing
<AlanBell> it looks likely to be a political problem than a technical one
<ali1234> the problem is that nobody wants to see two time and date icons in the control panel
<AlanBell> indeed, or two online account settings things
<ali1234> gnome shell uses Date and Time, Unity uses Time & Date, so they just hide the other one respectively
<ali1234> gnome panel, being the best desktop evar, lets you choose
<AlanBell> or two desktop shells
<ali1234> but the .desktop way of hiding one or the other fails here
<ali1234> since it doesn't know which one yu've put on your panel (indeed you could have both)
<AlanBell> gah
<ali1234> and they don't match in functionality
<AlanBell> indeed
<ali1234> or store the settings in the same place
<ali1234> so basically i blame gnome shell and unity
<AlanBell> yup, me too
<ali1234> then copy the .desktops into ~/.local/ and remove the stupid hacks, and have two icons
<AlanBell> canonical announce they are doing something, gnome go off and develop the same thing but different and broken in different ways and we end up with two nearly OK results
<ali1234> the indicators are clearly better than the applets
<ali1234> of that there is no question
<ali1234> having two applets isn't the problem though
<ali1234> the problem is the way they are hidden
<ali1234> and that gnome shell and gnome classic both have the same name
<AlanBell> yeah, so that should turn up in unity and gnome classic with indicators
<AlanBell> but not gnome-shell because of NIH
<ali1234> "gnome classic with indicators" isn't a thing though
<ali1234> by default it has indicators but you can put the old applet back too
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> turns out gnome-control-center doesn't respect overridden .desktop in .local so i have to edit the one in /usr
<ali1234> i'd just like to mention at this point that this is why people switch to entirely different distro rather than just install a different desktop from the repositories
<ali1234> this is a classic example where fixing a bug in one desktop will break something in another one
<ali1234> obviously on ubuntu unity is going to win that fight
<ali1234> so if i want to use the other desktop it's never going to work right for me unless i go to another distro
<diplo> evening all
<WillemTheMarxist> diplo: where's docus?
<diplo> :)
<MartijnVdS> woo, chromebook is here! :)
<brobostigon> myself, i am somewhat sceptical, about a system, like chromiumos, which will basically only run cloud apps inside chrome, and basically, no real true client side apps. however the chromebook and chromiumos is not designed for that normal market, which doesnt require what i just described. so it would be somewhat pointless.
<ali1234> don't say cloud apps
<ali1234> say websites
<ali1234> that's what they are
<ali1234> don't play their game
<brobostigon> ali1234: fair point. yes.
<ali1234> the chromebook is a nice hardware though
<ali1234> just put ubuntu on it
<brobostigon> quite, yes.
<ali1234> there is a large market for a laptop that just does email websites chat and so on
<AlanBell> yo dawg, I heard you liked writing cloud code so we put a code editor in the cloud so you can code while you cloud http://www.eclipse.org/orion/
<ali1234> it won;t cut into windows market share but it will apple
<brobostigon> ali1234: it always reminds me, after i first tried an ipad , many years ago, and thought, hmm, this would be so much better, with a more capable OS.
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> AlanBell: it's not even the first one. github has a cloud IDE
<ali1234> and it's probably better than anything made by eclipse foundation
<AlanBell> ali1234: true enough
<ali1234> https://c9.io/
<AlanBell> but this one can run locally and point at various back ends
<ali1234> well so can one that uses git
<ali1234> you can also edit your code in any other IDE you like
<ali1234> IDEs suck anyway
<AlanBell> yeah, I never really got into eclipse, I use text editors
<AlanBell> I do like geany, but I use it as a decent text editor rather than the full IDE stuff
<brobostigon> although,i would be happier if android did c++, insted of java. java makes little sense to me, whereas c++, makes perfect sense.
<brobostigon> geany is good, yes.
<ali1234> android NDK?
<ali1234> c++ makes more sense than java?
<brobostigon> ali1234: to me, yes.
<ali1234> which part?
<ali1234> seriously.
<ali1234> i guess the build system is nicer for C++
<ali1234> you can continue to use makefiles
<brobostigon> ali1234: i read java, and feel clueless, it seems illogical. whereas c++ seems logical and makes more logical sense.
<ali1234> they read almost exactly the same
<AlanBell> there are languages with semicolons at the end of the line and languages without.
<ali1234> true
<brobostigon> ali1234: well, they dont to me. in all reason.
<AlanBell> other than that, they are all much of a muchness
<jacobw> i thought c++ was in now
<jacobw> perhaps i missed a memo :(
<AlanBell> oh except pointer arithmetic. That should die in a fire.
<ali1234> all the semicolon languages descend from BCPL
<AlanBell> jacobw: the cool kids are using vala
<jacobw> cool, they reinvented objective c 10 years too late :p
<jacobw> python ftw
<ali1234> or not since BCPL doesn't have semicolons
<ali1234> so i guess C started that one
<brobostigon> ohwell, my perception is inaccurate then.
<ali1234> maybe you are confusing C++ with C
<ali1234> maybe people do
<brobostigon> ali1234: i have used both, yes,
<ali1234> a lot of people write basically C with classes
<ali1234> because it's a lesser evil
<ali1234> real C++ is much harder to read than real java
<ali1234> (a lot of of people write C with classes in java too)
<brobostigon> ali1234: my first, was with c, doing basic electrical controls. when i went to college,
<brobostigon> ali1234: it was maybe, the arduino's combination of both, which has confused my mind abit.
<brobostigon> or blurred it.
<ali1234> arduino C++ is just... wrong
<ali1234> it's not C++ at all. it's not even C with classes
<ali1234> C++ standard lib would melt an AVR
<ali1234> did you look at the due stuff?
<ali1234> is it any different at all?
<brobostigon> i havent looked at that yet,
<brobostigon> thats arm, insted of avr.
<ali1234> doesn't matter if you're going to use C or higher level languages
<brobostigon> agreed.
<ali1234> i like the simplicity of the AVR
<brobostigon> i never looked at it that closely.
<ali1234> it's possibly to understand how every part of it works at the logic level
<ali1234> everything is documented
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> good design there, yes.
<ali1234> you could take the docs and build a functionally equivalent design. in fact it has been done.
<brobostigon> many times, yes.
<ali1234> it's a good platform for learning assembly language too, because the instruction set is so simple
<brobostigon> i havent touched assembly, since college. 12 years.
<mh0> I completley forgot this channel even existed :P
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-03
<bootlkjgf> looks like bedsie ....
<bootlkjgf> http://goo.gl/yFOzQ
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Does Ubuntu 11.10 support 4G LTE USB Modem MF880T?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: what happened when you plugged it in?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: sure
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2061426 ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: it links to a thread on how to fix it if it doesn't work out of the box
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I just googled "MF880T" and "Ubuntu", first hit
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: ok
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: usb-devices does show the details
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: shall i pastebin the output of usb-devices
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: just follow that forum thread
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: it explains all
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: but i dont see it being seen in my NM Applet?
<kaushal> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1328442/
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: let me try some few more steps
<kvarley> ali1234: Turns out on another page of the BIOS I was able to disable Secure Boot all together and change the boot devices mode to accept another type of device other than UEFI compatible ones
<popey> Morning
<danfish> morning. Sunny, bright and cold here. Rather nice :)
<danfish> time to get the wife's tender plants under shelter and  under the watch of my viglen mpc controlled plant watcher (need a better name for it)
<danfish> yes, I'm still using an mpc!
<daubers> danfish: Mine constantly thermal shutdowns :(
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone.
<danfish> daubers: then stop trying to play HD movies with it ;)
<danfish> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning danfish
<Seeker`> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> morning Seeker` and AlanBell
<AlanBell> cold pizza, the breakfast of champions
<brobostigon> never tried that.
<ali1234> kvarley: cool. did it fix your graphics problems?
<kvarley> ali1234: Going to find out later. Got some work on at the moment. Will let you know. Thanks for all your help yesterday btw :)
<AlanBell> I see Apple have updated their website :)
<AlanBell> http://www.apple.com/uk/ legal notice at the bottom
<kvarley> ali1234: 1204 hangs on the splash screen. Gonna just install 1210 and try not to break the drivers
<kvarley> AlanBell: love how they are still putting it as far down the page as possible
<popey> i appear to have broken 32-bit opengl on my 64-bit system
<MartijnVdS> popey: have you installed the :i386 versions of the libraries?
<popey> 1328841
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1328841/
<nucc1> i wonder why totem is no longer keeping my screen from going off...
<popey> see ^^
<MartijnVdS> popey: cool
<popey> suggestions welcome
<MartijnVdS> does the machine actually have the ATi drivers?
<MartijnVdS> as it's trying to do something with libdrm-radeon
<popey> no
<popey> its all intel, my x220
<MartijnVdS> try also installing libdrm-intel1:i386
<MartijnVdS> instead of the radeon one
<popey> well, i get the intel one installed, but the libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 still isnt installed, and still wants the ATI one
<MartijnVdS> that's weird.. you'd think it would depend on one of the libdrm-* libraries
<MartijnVdS> not all of them
<popey> aptitude is having a fit trying to resolve this
<MartijnVdS> you're not running R yet are you? :)
<popey> nope
<popey> 12.04
<popey> open: 8513; closed: 47648; defer: 431; conflict: 721                                                                                             oNo solution found within the allotted time.  Try harder? [Y/n]
<popey> nice
<popey> aha, i think i got something from a ppa!
<popey> \o/ fixed
<MartijnVdS> ppas bad?
<popey> somehow I had  a manually installed library
<popey> 2.4.39-0ubuntu1.0~ppa1.1
<kvarley> Ubuntu 12.04.1 hangs on splash screen. I've disabled secure boot and am not booting UEFI mode so I have no idea why it won't boot.
<kvarley> Can't get access to any shells
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
 * kvarley breaks out the alternative installer ...
<madpup> Hi all, im typing this from my new (1 hour old) 12.10 install, so far working great
<madpup> so good work devs
<popey> yay
<madpup> sup popey
<madpup> Where do i report a simple bug for battery charging weirdness?
<popey> what's the issue?
<madpup> when i unplug my laptop charger the laptop freaks out and ubuntu warns the battery flat, 0:01 mins remainning, then it goes back to 3:59
<madpup> remainig
<popey> I'd let it do a full charge / discharge cycle before filing a bug
<popey> i think upower does some kind of battery profiling so it knows how long it should last, but needs to 'learn' that
<MartijnVdS> madpup: it takes a while for the battery status to "settle" after disconnecting power
<MartijnVdS> also, what popey said
<madpup> ok, will do.
<madpup> thanks all
<danfish> since I updated to 12.10, the battery monitor says I haven't got a battery
<danfish> not picking up the mini fusion reactor I've got powering this laptop either :/
<madpup> sorry no idea
<danfish> not a big problem. Will debug sometime.
<popey> danfish, does the magic "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" pull anything in?
<danfish> popey: only something about poppler
<danfish> I did some messing around with this laptop when I got it experimenting with an external battery monitoring circuit. Probably a user bug, rather than an ubuntu bug!
<kvarley> ali1234: I get "PXE-E61: Media Test Failure check cable" when my BIOS posts but my SSD shows up and I can boot from SSD. Is that just a pointless message or could that be affecting my ability to install Ubuntu?
<kvarley> Alternative installer doesn't see any partitions on my SSD when there are existing partitions on the drive
<kvarley> Something weird is going on
<kvarley> CD installer fails checksum test ... doh
<BigRedS> Haha, I hate it when that's the issue
<BigRedS> Just get into the idea of some protracted set of troubleshooting and experimenting, then realise it's just the Universe being annoying
<popey> hey BigRedS
<popey> was good to see you at UDS!
<popey> fun games :)
<BigRedS> Ah yes! I think I'll be buying a set of those cards
<cliftonts> hi everyone
<cliftonts> I'd like ot ask if someone could help me break a ubuntu install
<BigRedS> What sort of breakage?
<cliftonts> right, I know a guy who is an idiot, a danger to himself any anyone who gets close
<cliftonts> He's set himself up doing PC repairs, I wouldn't trust him to open a can of beans though!
<cliftonts> So I want to pull a prank on him
<czajkowski> cliftonts: kinda unfair, give the guy a break
<cliftonts> have you ever seen it where someone tried to install windows over ubuntu and just got an error on boot that said GRUB ERROR 1?
<kvarley> Samsung 535U3C-A02UK - Ubuntu 12.04 freezes at splash screen. Ubuntu 12.10 doesn't give me a GUI. Any ideas? This is beginning to get really annoying.
<cliftonts> czajkowski I'm not exagerating, this guy has owned 4 boats, sunk 3 of them and sailed the 4th into a wier
<cliftonts> he couldn't fix his own pc to save his life, he shouldn't be tinkering with other people's property if he's not up to the task
<BigRedS> kvarley: s this the liveCD?
<kvarley> BigRedS: Yes. I'm just trying 12.10 off a disc then I'm going to try the alternative install. Last time the alternative install didn't copy to my USB stick correctly so it wouldn't see any existing partitions
<BigRedS> If so, try the alternate CD
<BigRedS> ah
<cliftonts> So, can anyone suggest a way to set Ubuntu up that would break any attempt to install windows in it's place?
<kvarley> Sounds like you want secure boot
<BigRedS> Not really - Windows would just overwrite whatever's in the Ubuntu
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<kvarley> Secure boot with a custom key for Ubuntu
<cliftonts> on an old laptop kvarley
<BigRedS> yeah, though you'd need to sign the windows installer, otherwise it'll fail at that bit
<cliftonts> bigreds years ago when I tried to install windows it would result in grub error 1, I can't recreate that issue now tho
<kvarley> If he installs windows on his machine over ubuntu then surely it's his problem if he messes its up?
<cliftonts> no kvarley it would be my machine and I want grub to get in the way
<BigRedS> cliftonts: that's just where you've not fully installed the windows loader
<BigRedS> not sure how you do that
<bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, I thnk the house opposite's Door is wide open .. just saying.
<cliftonts> nor me, I need to figure this out
<BigRedS> grub can't reallyt get in the way - OS installers trump any existing permissions unless they specifically decided to honour them
<AlanBell> bootlkjkgf: that is a passageway between the houses there
<cliftonts> that's a pain in the backside. My plan revolves around him not being able to install windows over the top
<kvarley> liftonts: Is this guy a client or a friend?
<bootlkjkgf> Oh Ok.
<AlanBell> that is two houses, I think their "front" doors are left and right off the passage
<kvarley> cliftonts: Is this guy a client or friend?
<cliftonts> kvarley neither, he's an idiot who thinks he can be an IT technician
<cliftonts> he once destroyed someones PS3 without their knowledge so he could find out if the blu ray drive would fit his pc
<cliftonts> imagine someone like that let loose on your laptop
<bootlkjkgf> Wow that was a big bus.
<kvarley> cliftonts: Why not just give him Windows with a limited user account?
<cliftonts> what?
<kvarley> cliftonts: Even more restrictive a network boot windows install
<cliftonts> I someone to go to him and say 'I just bought this laptop and windows doesn't work'
<cliftonts> install ubuntu, hide the spash screen, auto loging and the awesome window manager
<cliftonts> it'd blow his brain!
<kvarley> cliftonts: Lol sounds like you have a passionate hate for this guy
<kvarley> *hatred
<cliftonts> kvarley I really can't express enough how dangerous it is for this guy to be doing this to the public
<cliftonts> but I've known him for years and the opportunity for a practical joke is too big to miss
<cliftonts> Aah! What if I password protect the bios and set it to boot off the hard drive before all other devices and disable the F12 option?
<kvarley> That'd work
<popey> are there not more productive things you can do with your weekend?
 * kvarley agrees with popey
<kvarley> A lot of effort to give the guy grief
<cliftonts> popey, if you knew him you'd be reaching for your video camera and booking a front row seat
<kvarley> cliftonts: If he breaks his laptop will you be paid to fix it?
<cliftonts> kvarley it would be my laptop he would break and no
<kvarley> cliftonts: I really don't understand the situation lol
<kvarley> cliftonts: You don't like a guy so you are letting him use your laptop but only with Ubuntu on
<cliftonts> ok, from the top:
<cliftonts> idiot starts pc repair business
<cliftonts> idiot is going to break any computer he touches
 * popey goes to make flapjack with the kids 
<cliftonts> his tag line on his business card is 'if it's broken, I can fix it!'
<cliftonts> I want to give him a machine where he won't know where to start
<kvarley> Fit a read only hard drive
<kvarley> Or take the hard drive out
<kvarley> And put an sd card in read only mode
<cliftonts> a read only hard drive?
<kvarley> Not sure if they exist lol
<cliftonts> I don't have the kit to do an SD card
<kvarley> I'd give up
<kvarley> That or just install Ubuntu
<cliftonts> nah, trust me the opportunity is too good to miss
<cliftonts> I'm going to install ubuntu
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: Chromebook ;)
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: he won't know what hit him
<cliftonts> MartijnVdS, are you paying for that??
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: I have one
<cliftonts> would you risk him breaking it??
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<cliftonts> exactly
<cliftonts> he's getting a celeron with 40gb hdd, I don't care if he kills it
<MartijnVdS> I just threw out an old machine (PII/III) with bad caps on the mainboard
<MartijnVdS> see how he copes with bad caps! :)
<cliftonts> lol
 * kvarley1 has found a pc that can't have Ubuntu installed on it! =/
<cliftonts> damn this is annoying, I can't disable f12
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: on what?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley1: :(
<cliftonts> Dell Inspiron 1300
<MartijnVdS> what does F12 do?
<cliftonts> boot menu
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I've tried USB and disc installs of Ubuntu 12.04.1, 12.10 and 12.10 alternative
<kvarley> Surely the bios password locks you out of f12 tho?
<cliftonts> If I set it to hard disk first then disable the boot menu and put a password on the bios he'll be stuck
<cliftonts> kvarley: you think?
<kvarley> cliftonts: Yes.
<kvarley> cliftonts: He won't be stuck
<kvarley> cliftonts: All he has to do is look up online how to clear the CMOS
<cliftonts> kvarley: you still aren't getting how monumentally thick this guy is are you?
<cliftonts> and the boot menu still works with the password
<kvarley> cliftonts: Doesn't take a genius to put "lost bios password" into google
<cliftonts> he's not a genius, he's barely a vegetable
<kvarley> cliftonts: Just get over your hate for this guy. Don't waste your time trying to make his life hard.
 * kvarley is afk
<cliftonts> got it!
<czajkowski> oh dear https://www.facebook.com/ubuntulocoteams/posts/390603791007654  why people file bugs via FB I do not know
<AlanBell> s/file bugs via//
<cliftonts> guys, is there a way to chasn
<cliftonts> change the account ubuntu one client is linked to?
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: log out, then back in with new account?
<czajkowski> cliftonts: are you still trying to trick your mate
<MartijnVdS> System settings -> Ubuntu One
<cliftonts> MartijnVdS I don't see any way to change the details, or log out
<czajkowski> cliftonts: have you really nothing better to be doing with your week than trying to fool him
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: some people are 12 ;)
<cliftonts> czajkowski: the way i see it, proving to him that he's not capable is doing many people a favour
<czajkowski> cliftonts:  thats wrong, many people come here with issues and we try and help, I dont see why we should go out of way to trick people
<czajkowski> cliftonts: you've often come here looking for help on stuff you don't know
<czajkowski> cliftonts: would you like us to go out of our way to trick you
<cliftonts> czajkowski: You must be great fun at parties with that sense of humour!
<cliftonts> anyway must dash, I need to swap my donge to the other pc
<czajkowski> I am you know
<cliftonts> lol take care
 * BigRedS vouches for czajkowski being hilarious
<MartijnVdS> at times
<czajkowski> MartijnVdS: always in fact!
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: Ok
<BigRedS> haha
 * MartijnVdS tries to find a place that can print panorama pics properly
<kvarley> Do I install the FGLRX driver or the FGLRX driver with post-release updates?
<sagaci> Ended up going t mobile with a gig .. Better than nothing
<BigRedS> more updates is generally better
<BigRedS> but generally advice is to not use fglrx unless you need to
<kvarley> BigRedS: Well screen brightness doesn't work without it so I have to =/
<sagaci> Had bad experiences with fglrx in every install
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: neither
<kvarley> I've never had issues ... until now
<MartijnVdS> I've _always_ had issues with both nvidia and fglrx
<kvarley> Do you think this will work without FGLRX installed?
<kvarley> https://launchpad.net/samsung-tools
<MartijnVdS> yes
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I can't use unity 3d without FGLRX?
<kvarley> Or do I have to manually install the open source drivers?
<MartijnVdS> nah, the open source driver is the default
<kvarley> Well, it doesn't let me in unity 3d
<MartijnVdS> but basic 3D support should work..
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It lets me in but doesn't do the workspaces properly
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'm gonna try FGLRX because the brightness control didn't work
<kvarley> On the plus side
<kvarley> My laptop is now lightning quick
<kvarley> Ubuntu + SSD <3
<kvarley> So strange - I have a "AMD Unsupported hardware" watermark on my screen after installing FGLRX but everything works functionality wise
<MartijnVdS> too new!
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: The hardware?
<MartijnVdS> yes?
<kvarley> It's an AMD A6-4455M which has Radeon 7500G graphics so it's not really new
<kvarley> It is trinity tho I think
<MartijnVdS> then it might be too old?
<kvarley> So that's kind of new
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It was only introduced in Q2 of this year apparently
 * Neoti_Desktop Networking, VoIP, Systems Geek for hire!
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: A newer version of catalyst is available so I'm gonna try that
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Ty for help :)
<ali1234> kvarley: that bios message means that the bios is trying to PXE boot from the wired ethernet but no network cable is connected so it failed. you can disable PXE boot in the bios or just ignore it
<ali1234> it's for diskless machines which boot from a server basically so you don't need it. it can be useful in certain situations (like kernel development) but you can always enable it again.
<ali1234> cliftonts does indeed need secure boot to pull off his prank
<ali1234> however, for the reasons eimon pointed out yesterday, it won't work on an x86 platform, because the user can just turn it off
<ali1234> so actually password protecting the bios would work better
<ali1234> then he'll have to open the machine to unplug the nvram battery
<kvarley> ali1234: I suspected that was it but wanted to check. I disabled the option in the BIOS and all is well. Was just checking that it wasn't a potential HDD/SDD problem
<kvarley> ali1234: I finally have Ubuntu 12.10 installed
<kvarley> ali1234: Alternative 64-bit installer, ethernet install, using Guided paritioning
<kvarley> ali1234: Using the FGLRX drivers, with samsung-tools for brightness control settings, hiding the watermark that says unsupported hardware
<kvarley> ali1234: Thanks again for all your help :D
<ali1234> cool
<czajkowski> popey: on your nexus does the sound always start up muted?
<brobostigon> which log file. in /var/log , shows the boot messages output?
<popey> czajkowski, bug 1068804
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1068804 in ubuntu-nexus7 "sound only works after suspend/resume cycle" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1068804
<popey> czajkowski, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7 is worth a browse
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<czajkowski> loving it this evening
<penguin42> popey: Do you know if there are any triaging rules for the ubuntu-nexus7 stuff? I mean when should stuff get triaged to ubuntu-nexus7 as opposed to unity or the appropriate X package?
<czajkowski> penguin42: teams/develoeprs tend to like to triage their own bugs
<penguin42> czajkowski: I'm on bug-control&squad so do a general set of triaging of bugs
<czajkowski> penguin42: if in doubt triage to nexus7 and let them re triage from there
<penguin42> czajkowski: Hmm ok, that's interestingly different from every other platform
<czajkowski> penguin42: well how else will you knw as it's rather new
<penguin42> czajkowski: but it's the same components isn't it?
<penguin42> czajkowski: I can see adding ubuntu-nexus7 as an also-affects to a bug which is on the particular package
<czajkowski> fair enough.
<brobostigon> is it possible to grep a the whole of /var/log for a specific string ?
<penguin42> brobostigon: grep -r
<brobostigon> penguin42: thank you.
<popey> penguin42, if stuff is specific to unity/kernel etc then yeah, I'd add a task for those
<penguin42> popey: I assume there is a linux-nexus7 or the like?
<AlanBell> so I have a nexus 7 with a bunch of apps and about 6GB of music on it, can I back that lot up, try ubuntu on it and put all the stuff back again later?
<AlanBell> and does bluetooth work on it when running Ubuntu?
<AlanBell> so that rhythmbox could play music to a bluetooth receiver somewhere?
<popey> not that I'm aware of penguin42
<popey> we need to fix these in distro itself
<penguin42> popey: Ah there is a linux-nexus7, but it's in the ubuntu-nexus7 ppa
<ali1234> AlanBell: if bluetooth doesn't work, and you want it to work, if you send me a nexus 7, i will make it work :)
<Azelphur> wow, that Ubuntu on the nexus 7 thing is cool
<penguin42> AlanBell: One of the Knownissues listed is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1070770
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1070770 in ubuntu-nexus7 "bluetoothd dies with glibc malloc memory corruption when used with brcm_patchram" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Azelphur> wtb dual boot
<penguin42> AlanBell: i.e. bluetooth doesn't work
<ali1234> wow, fail
<AlanBell> ok, thanks penguin42
<penguin42> ali1234: Hey it's new, it needs the bugs beating out of it still
<ali1234> there's only about three companies that make bluetooth chips and all the chips are either uart or usb
<ali1234> and they all have drivers
<penguin42> ali1234: Be careful, ARM stuff tends to be a bit different
<czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/u/0/102921374554385564572/posts/98MpbTnMptE it does look nice running ubuntu
<ali1234> not at all
<penguin42> ali1234: Although in this case maybe it looks like just a bluetoothd bug
<ali1234> nobody puts bluetooth into a SoC
<ali1234> ARM boards typically use UART mode
<ali1234> because it's the easiest to do
<ali1234> i bet that it's crashing because they haven't loaded firmware
<ali1234> well, actually i bet it's crashing because bluetoothd is buggy
<ali1234> but the bug is likely exposed because the adapter behaves differently without some firmware... they often need it for high speed mode etc
<penguin42> yeh it just looks like a heap corruption of sometype from the log there
 * penguin42 should buy a tablet of some type
<ali1234> i would rather get a nexus 4 actually
<penguin42> the one with the uber res display?
<AlanBell> I might wait for the nexus 10
<ali1234> no thats the 10
<ali1234> the 4 is just a normal phone
<penguin42> ah ok
<AlanBell> we have a nexus 7 but it's primary purpose is to play mary black CDs in the kitchen
<ali1234> but the interesting thing about it is it's 1/3 the price of all other (smart) phones off contract
<penguin42> ali1234: How much?
<AlanBell> so if I broke bluetooth audio I might be in trouble
<ali1234> i can't remember
<AlanBell> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=nexus Â£239
<ali1234> Â£239
<penguin42> ali1234: I only spent about 80 on my Orange San Francisco ~2 years ago
<ali1234> Â£279 for 16gb
<penguin42> ali1234: Low spec though
<ali1234> orange san francisco was a PAYG
<AlanBell> the nexus 10 is Â£319 and comes out on the 13th
<ali1234> and if you stopped buying credit, orange blacklisted the phone
<penguin42> ali1234: blacklisted?
<ali1234> so yeah that was a good deal except for those people who bought it and unlocked it and then found it stopped working
<AlanBell> why would you get the nexus 4 over the nexus 7 (159)
<ali1234> um because the nexus 4 is a phone
<AlanBell> oh, so it is :) didn't spot that!
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm interesting, I unlocked it, I've run it on T-mobile before they fully merged
<ali1234> penguin42: yep. you might find it doesn't work any more now that they have
<penguin42> ali1234: It's still my daily phone
<ali1234> i've read lots of reports about this
<ali1234> anywho, that was a subsidized loss leader basically
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm perfectly happy for them to subsidise me :-)
<ali1234> sure
<penguin42> ali1234: Especially given how tight I am on my PAYG usage
<ali1234> but the point is, you won't find a smartphone this cheap that is without contract and unlocked
<ali1234> it's a pretty big move. hardware is pretty average sure, but the other good thing about it is you won't get left behind by operators dragging their heels on updates
<penguin42> ali1234: It's interestingly nasty if they have been doing that
<ali1234> that's the main reason i want it
<penguin42> yeh, reasonable
<ali1234> ICS runs fine on the SGS so uber hardware isn't everything
<ali1234> not SGS3, the original one. still really fast.
<ali1234> http://www.hotukdeals.com/misc/orange-san-francisco-blacklisted-help-wanted-1099242
<ali1234> loads of threads like that around the internet specifically for that phone
<ali1234> blacklisting is the IMEI database of stolen phones
<AlanBell> nexus 10 is totally different CPU and GPU to the nexus 7 so I guess Ubuntu on it won't happen for a bit
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, interesting, all at about the same time, last December - I was still on Orange then
<popey> yeah, it will
<popey> nexus 10 has same chip as the chromebook
<penguin42> AlanBell: But it's the exynos which is pretty heavily supported, so shouldn't be too bad
<ali1234> well i want one of those too
<ali1234> in that case :)
 * penguin42 wants a frankenstinien hybrid of a nexus 10 display in the chromebook
<popey> we gave out a bunch of nexus 7's at UDS
<penguin42> popey: Good way to get people to debug it :-)
<popey> exactly
<ali1234> that's really funny cos the ideapad that i got at the meego conference has ubuntu on it
<ali1234> but in this case, it's intended that people put ubuntu on it :)
<ali1234> incidentally, they gave out ideapads cos they are touchscreen, and the touchscreen doesn't work properly on ubuntu :(
<czajkowski> ali1234: were they given out by canonical developers?
<ali1234> no, they were given out by intel and nokia, because it was a meego conference
<ali1234> they were intended for debugging meego
<czajkowski> ah well that might be why, nexus 7 has been picked as that is what the developers are working on, it;s a reasonable price also if people chose to buy one also
<czajkowski> and it's intended to encourage people to put ubuntu on it and help debug it
<ali1234> i reported a bug: the installer did not support dual booting with ubuntu
<ali1234> actually the bootloader was the problem, because meego bootloader didn't support ext4 and ubuntu bootloader didn't support btrfs
<gneel> Evening
<gneel> How do I report spam in a launchpad bug comment?
<czajkowski> gneel: which bug
<gneel> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/177965
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 177965 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Multiple Song Properties update problem" [Low,Invalid]
<gneel> Comment #9
<gneel> It was closed years ago.
<czajkowski> done
<gneel> czajkowski: Diolch yn fawr
<penguin42> does anyone have a precise machine running - and can tell me whether the output of   mount   shows / mounted on /dev/root or the real device?
<czajkowski> gneel: eh ?
<gneel> penguin42: I'm running precise. I'll check in a mo.
<ali1234> penguin42: it says /dev/sda1
<penguin42> ali1234: Thanks
<gneel> czajkowski: it's Welsh for "ta muchly"
<AlanBell> czajkowski: Go raibh cÃ©ad maith agat
<penguin42> ali1234: That's what Quantal said for me, but I wanted to check on precise since that's what the bug I was debugging said
<czajkowski> ah ok
<czajkowski> :)
<gneel> penguin42: I see the same. /dev/sda1, not /dev/root
<czajkowski> for future reference please file a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<penguin42> gneel: Thanks
<gneel> penguin42: it might depend on whether you have a RAID type setup, or LVM or some other exotic setup
<gneel> czajkowski: was the point about the question regarding the spam on the bug?
<penguin42> gneel: Yeh, it's a report I've been helping someone with;
<popey> penguin42,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1330325/
<penguin42> popey: Thanks
<shauno> if it's any help, I usually see /dev/root used during initrd before it's pivoted to the correct device
<ali1234> what would be a good machine to use for a myth-backend which does not generate much heat?
<ali1234> i want to put it in a cupboard
<czajkowski> gneel: yes
<ali1234> and it needs usb2
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, this guy seems to have landed in a full system with mount still showing /dev/root and when he tries to run update-initramfs it barfs, becasue while mount still shows it, there is no /dev/root and blkid on it fails and then it all kind of fails badly
<gneel> popey: I hope making those ecryptfs sigs on your Private directory public is not something that's added a vulnerability!
<ali1234> and yeah /dev/root is what you see when the kernel mounted root rather than something in user space (ie after initrd)
<gneel> czajkowski: thanks
<ali1234> penguin42: block devices don't necessarily exist in /dev. just mknod it if you really need to...
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh but various of the update scripts assume that what mount says that / is mounted on matches reality
<penguin42> ali1234: So while yes that would fix it, it doesn't explain why his system is screwed up in this way, which is really the more important question
<ali1234> make /dev/root: mknod /dev/root b $(lvm lvdisplay -C --noheadings --separator " " --options lvm_kernel_major,lvm_kernel_minor)
<shauno> right .. fixing the cause, not the symptom
<popey> gneel, how would it?
<ali1234> so it's not really even a real block device, just a shortcut essentially
<ali1234> penguin42: what's his kernel command line (cat /proc/cmdline)
<ali1234> also check early dmesg of course
<gneel> popey: don't know, it just looks like something I wouldn't make public. I know it's not the actual keys. Is it some sort of signature of the keys?
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm unfortunately that bit has scrolled off his dmesg that's attached; but that's a good thing to ask
<ali1234> try /var/log/syslog
<ali1234> or /var/log/messages depending on distro
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh what's happening here is mkinitramfs awk's the output of mount, and if that says /dev/root it runs blkid on /dev/root   to find where that really point - but the problem here is that he has an inconsistency somehow; which actually looking at his  attached df output looks like the problme
<ali1234> what's in /etc/mtab
<ali1234> mount basically just prints out whatever is in /etc/mtab
<ali1234> maybe his / is ro cos of errors?
<penguin42> ali1234: Don't know - this is just going off a bug report, so I need to ask a few more questions - it's not a ro / from the logs, but there is an add set of errors about failure to create pty's during init that's interesting, and his df is a little screwy
<ali1234> public bug?
<gneel> G'night all.
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh bug 1062699 - I've just asked him for his /proc/cmdline,    it looks like the initramfs isn't quite finishing correctly, leaving two (incoherent) / shown in df and mount
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1062699 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "package linux-image-3.2.0-31-generic 3.2.0-31.50 failed to install/upgrade: run-parts: /etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs-tools exited with return code 1 [/dev/disk/by-uuid: Is a directory , mkinitramfs: for root /dev/disk/by-uuid missing disk/by-uuid /sys/block/ entry]" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062699
<penguin42> ali1234: Lets see what he says to that one
<ali1234> hmm that dmesg is complete
<penguin42> ali1234: Except the top has scrolled off the buffer
<ali1234> not anything interesting
<penguin42> indeed
<penguin42> ali1234: Those pty errors are odd, but not apparently related - but still odd
<ali1234> he is not using a ramfs?
<penguin42> ali1234: I don't think he's doing anything weird there
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm suspecting the problem is something like some screw up when he upgraded from 11.10 to 12.04 that failed to properly create the 12.04 initramfs properly, and it's screwed in such a way that it can't fix itself
<ali1234> quite possibly
<ali1234> dunno about it being due to an upgrade
<ali1234> but not having an initramfs doesn't seem right
<penguin42> ali1234: Well he said that's when it first occurred, but we'll see what his /proc/cmdline looks like
<penguin42> right, back in ~1hr
<ali1234> this is what dmesg should look like: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1330385/
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, during the early boot it goes into a fixed size buffer, if the initial boot dmesg uses too much space (before it manages to write to disk) then you lose the start
<ali1234> the pty error is almost certainly due to the missing initramfs, like everything else
<ali1234> yes, but look at the area of line 770
<ali1234> that "freeing unused memory" line is always within a couple of lines of where it mounts root, IF the kernel is mounting root
<ali1234> but on my system it isn't, because i have an initrd
<ali1234> on the bugged system kernel is mounting sda1 directly, which is why it shows as /dev/root
<ali1234> and it mounts directly because missing ramdisk
<penguin42> ali1234: It's an interesting theory, lets see what his reply is; if the error first occurred during an upgrade, perhaps what we're seeing is he bodged around the lack of a ramdisk, and then we're just seeing more fallout
<penguin42> anyway, as I say - back in 1h30
<ali1234> basically before those lines the kernel does not touch anything with any filesystem at all regardless of initramfs or direct partition
<ali1234> nah, without ramdisk the kernel command line has root= so it will still work, sort of. it will do exactly what you're seeing in fact
<ali1234> no bodging involved
<ali1234> and mkinitramfs will fail
<ali1234> exactly like it is doing
<ali1234> so it can't be fixed
<ali1234> basically i would say that manually creating the initramfs once will fix the system
<ali1234> then raise a bug against mkinitramfs not working if you don't already have an initramfs
<ali1234> something else that would work is to boot livecd, chroot, run update-initramfs, reboot
<ali1234> initramfs should not pay attention to /dev/root anyway for exactly this reason
<ali1234> actually that might fail due to mtab being wrong
<ali1234> hmm so just for a laugh i deleted all my initrds on a VM and it renders the system unbootable
<shauno> and people say I have a strange sense of humour
<ali1234> people have given up telling me that
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> if i select recovery mode it does attempt to boot without initrd
<BigRedS> Yeah, if you've kernel support for all your hardware it'll boot without an initrd
<ali1234> BigRedS: yes, and if you boot without an initrd then / seems to get mounted on /dev/root and this makes update-initramfs not work
<ali1234> so you can only make an initrd if you already have an initrd!
<shauno> no, you can only create an initrd while you're not in recovery mode.  if you create a correct boot stanza while you're in recovery mode, then boot into that, you're set
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> the problem is you can boot into not-recovery mode without an initrd
<ali1234> and it looks normal
<ali1234> until you try to make an initrd
<ali1234> other than some cryptic errors on dmesg the system appears to be working normally
<ali1234> until apt chokes while trying to update the kernel
<shauno> I would say they just need to point grub at the correct root device while they're in recovery mode.  but the config for grub2 is now managed by crack-fueled monkeys
<ali1234> for sure
<ali1234> it should be enough to go to grub command line and say linux /boot/vmlinux<tab><tab> root=/dev/sda1
<ali1234> then boot
<ali1234> then update-initramfs -c -k all
<ali1234> then reboot normally and everything should be fine
<ali1234> however it's a bit much to expect the average user to know this :)
<BigRedS> this is a new thing; I've built a new initrd for a system without one in the not-too-distant past
<MonsterKiller> how do you get rid of this annoying shopping search on 12.10 dash?
<AlanBell> !adlens
<lubotu3> If you wish not to see "More Suggestions" from places like Amazon in your Ubuntu 12.10, simply remove the package unity-lens-shopping, or adjust your Privacy settings as shown here: http://goo.gl/kFO4u . Mark Shuttleworth's blog entry on this is at http://goo.gl/uF7zZ
<MonsterKiller> kk thanks :)
<BigRedS> I like that finally one of those has the ! genuinely meaning negation
<AlanBell> heh
<AlanBell> there must be other examples of that
<BigRedS> yeah, probably. I just remember the first few times I came across them wondering why the message was almost inverse to the command
<MonsterKiller> i removed the amazon thing from the software center before but shopping is there on and its saying unabled to locate package unity-lens-shopping
<Laney> !yes
<Laney> !yes is no
<AlanBell> oi
<Laney> it's true!
<Laney> also, good evening
<AlanBell> evening
<AlanBell> 22:59 < lubotu3> In #ubuntu-uk, Laney said: !yes is no
<Laney> can't argue with that
<czajkowski> ello Laney
<Laney> ow do?
<czajkowski> Laney: find your power supply at all ?
<Laney> no :( - I bought a new one
<BigRedS> ,MonsterKiller I've read that three times and still don't know what you mean
<Laney> did I tell you that I broke my phone too?
<ali1234> BigRedS: it's not impossible to create an initrd, it's just an interesting corner case where not having an initrd has exposed a bug in mkinitramfs
<czajkowski> Laney: was it an iphone?
<Laney> n900
<czajkowski> am gonna strangle the neighbours 2 doors down
<ali1234> did you break the USB port by any chance?
<Laney> the display just decided to stop working
<czajkowski> blaring mucis since 8
<czajkowski> massive house party
<ali1234> oh :(
<czajkowski> porters wont do anything till 11pm
<MonsterKiller> lol. First, to get rid of the shopping thing i removed the amazon shopping thing from the installed software on the software center, but i still had shopping results. so then i just tried removing unity-lens-shopping but it said the package was not found
<Laney> that's now!
<czajkowski> Laney: you're broken!
<BigRedS> ah right, It was the middle of the night so I probably didn't notice anything, saw the system booted and left it be :)
<nothingspecial> thats the law czajkowski
<MonsterKiller> i disabled it in privacy settings now
<czajkowski> Laney: music got louder since porters went in
<AlanBell> MonsterKiller: you would need to log out and back in again
<Laney> being phoneless feels weird
<nothingspecial> you can be as loud as a jumbo jet between 7am and 11pm
<AlanBell> MonsterKiller: you uninstalled it from the disk, but it was still running
<czajkowski> nothingspecial: no you cant, you cant be a noise nuisance
<MonsterKiller> I had restarted after removing it from software center
<nothingspecial> that's what the policeman told me once anyway
<BigRedS> yeah, it's decidedly easier from 11pm, but there's still limits generally
<czajkowski> and also it's 8am during the week and 11am on the weekends, tennancy agreemnt
<AlanBell> the privacy settings thing is an epic fail, but it does work for the default lenses
<ali1234> a jumbo jet is pretty loud, i suspect the rozzers would show up pretty quick
<czajkowski> BigRedS: 2 aparments in the middle and I can hear the musi perfectly
<nothingspecial> as my band thrashed on past midnight
<ali1234> in a licensed venue or in someones house?
<nothingspecial> in a warehouse
<nothingspecial> this was many years ago
<Laney> you could also call the environmental health if the porter is useless
 * Laney tries to remember why he just opened a terminal
<czajkowski> Laney: aye trying to work that out now as back home you'd just ring the police
<Laney> I'd google "<council name> environmental health"
<nothingspecial> anyway, it's 11 now. They have to turn it down
<nothingspecial> ring the police
<ali1234> any KDE users about?
<ali1234> can someone do me a screenshot like this: open a text editor, a terminal, and a music player (default KDE apps), and then take a screenshot with them all visible and the K menu open
<ali1234> type some stuff in the text editor please :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-11-04
<ali1234> since I'm going to use this screenshot to slate KDE design i encourage you to make it look as good as you can :P
<BigRedS> does KDE design need slating?
<BigRedS> Isn't that a bit like grumbling that the sea is wet
<ali1234> no, it's more like grumbling that the sea is full of toxic waste
<bootlkjkgf> Morning ... not a bad day weather-wise today.
<bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, morning
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> hey ali1234
<ali1234> hi
<Myrtti> moin
<Myrtti> rainy :-(
<jacobw> sunny but cold here
<popey> $morning
<MartijnVdS> \@morning
<jacobw> &morning
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: that's so Perl4
<jacobw> :P
<bootlkjkgf> Wonder what happened to the '404-show' [ http://cnettv.cnet.com/the-404/ ] - must still be submerged. Still abiding by popey's post about not voting !: http://goo.gl/xB9qn
<popey> bootlkjkgf, hmm?
<MartijnVdS> Looks like random text + random links
<danfish> g'day
<danfish> anyone running ubuntu on their nexus 7? Any reviews?
<popey> yes
<danfish> popey: is it 'productive' system?
<popey> it works, yes
<popey> unity isn't really designed for tablets at the moment (contrary to what some may say) so it's not ideal, there are plenty of bugs
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bugs
<danfish> ok, quite a few bugs there but very exciting for the future :)
<danfish> I like android on tablets, but there are a few annoyances that disrupt my workflow
<MartijnVdS> I have a Chromebook now.. it's.. weird.. to only have a browser
 * bigcalm staggers in for a bit
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: is there any way to get to a terminal?
<MartijnVdS> there's ctrl+alt+T
<MartijnVdS> it gets you a limited terminal that can do ssh
<MartijnVdS> and there's developer mode, which gives you full shell
<popey> thats good enough for most things I'd guess?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it is for me
 * bigcalm looks to see if he can put it on his eeepc1000
<popey> does it sync your ssh keys to the cloud?
<MartijnVdS> popey: I don't think so
<MartijnVdS> you have to install them from an SD card (or similar)
<MartijnVdS> quad-core 1.7GHz ARM is fun though
<popey> you cant generate them?
<popey> oh, the arm chromebook?
<popey> I had a brief play with one running ubuntu the other day
<popey> seems nice, odd keyboard
<penguin42> oh I hadn't realised those were Quad A15's, I'd assumed they were dual
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: What network connectivity do they have?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: mine has wifi (2.4, 5GHz 2x2 N)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the also have a version with 3G
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: But nowhere to plug a bit of string in?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: if you have a USB ethernet adapter it should work
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: And it's USB2?
<MartijnVdS> 1x USB2, 1x USB3
<MartijnVdS> 1x HDMI
<MartijnVdS> 1x SD
<penguin42> oh, I didn't realise USB3; that makes it a lot nicer - you could get decent ether speed through that
<MartijnVdS> limit for me is still my 15/1 DSL :)
<MartijnVdS> but only 2 more weeks \o/
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well yeh, but still nice to be able to get to other machines in the house etc
<bashrc> The idea of being stuck in a browser doesn't seem attractive
<MartijnVdS> Got the "We're coming around to terminate fibre" letter
<penguin42> bashrc: Well as MartijnVdS says, you can replace the OS completely
<MartijnVdS> as in.. make the connections so I can order 100/100 or 500/500 \o/
<MartijnVdS> in development mode, you can make it run Ubuntu if you really want to, apparently
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Now annoy us by telling us how little you pay for that
<MartijnVdS> http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/22/googler-loads-ubuntu-on-an-arm-based-samsung-chromebook/
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Â£229
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: on amazon
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I meant for the fibre
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: oh the fibre? Free.. as I work for the isp ;)
<penguin42> gah!!!!!
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: â¬40ish otherwise (per month)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: That's not bad at all; we can get I think 100/50 cable broadband for I believe about Â£35/month
 * penguin42 is still on ADSL2 though at 10/1
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: that's VDSL?
<MartijnVdS> (or VDSL2 or whatever)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: No the 100/50 is Cable, so fibre to the cabinet and coax from cab to house
<MartijnVdS> oh wait _cable_
<MartijnVdS> yeah we get 100-120mbit on that as well
<popey> there were 3 guys hacking on the chromebook at UDS last week
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: My exchange has fibre to do VDSL2 but the street cab I'm on hasn't got it :-(
<popey> one was the guy mentioned in the article :)
<MartijnVdS> The fibre people are trying to find routers that can actually do gigabit, and are affordable (so they can sell 1000/1000 -- cable won't be able to do that without replacing ALL routers and customer hardware)
<MartijnVdS> Lots of routers with gigabit ports.. but most can't do PPPoE on a VLAN at full gbit speed :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Is it GPON fibre ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: PON afaik
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: 2 fibres from every home to the POP
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.genexis.eu/medialib/304/fxp-productline-brochure.pdf
<penguin42> very nice....
<penguin42> right, new PC for dad ordered; delta 1 week until I have the pain of getting it going
<cotswold> test
<penguin42> toast
<AlanBell> hi cotswold
<bootlkjkgf> popey, Strange request : I'm slightly tired as I have just spent the past 4 hours looking a reddit pictures via imgur ... Do you have any more 'slightly' disturbing-stare-look pictures that you give every-so-often ?
<bootlkjkgf> ... to wake me up.
<AlanBell> that is a strange request
<brobostigon> close encounters of the third kind, ch5, 14:45 :)
<bootlkjkgf> .. it's OK .. I've twinnings Chai now .. AAhh Chai you are the only one who understands me.
<madpup> afternoon all
<AlanBell> afternoon
<AlanBell> not enough geeky words rhyme with each other
<madpup> quick question does intel gfx power scaling work in 12.10? it used to crash people in 11.10,12.04
<AlanBell> dunno, how do I tell madpup
<madpup> it was a kernel line into grub RC6********* something or other, i will do some research, and possibly post back
<AlanBell> madpup: I have a laptop with intel graphics, it doesn't crash, but I have no idea how to do power scaling or what it is
<madpup> ok man thanks for the help. if i find out i will post back
<madpup> Alan i just looked into it and its still not 100% so im leaving this alone as this is my main pc and i want it stable
<sagaci> Woking seems nice
 * penguin421 doesn't think I've heard anyone comment on Woking before
 * penguin421 has certainly never heard anyone say it's nice
<AlanBell> it is nicely accessible by rail
<jpds> AlanBell: So London City Airport.
<jpds> So is*
<AlanBell> depends where you are starting from :)
<sagaci> Going to Guildford tomorrow
<sagaci> Surely much more nicer than Upton park
<SuperEngineer> popey: in case you're watchin: a while ago you took [& helped] me through reporting / cross linking a bug upstream... https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673533  :) thankyou.
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 673533 in Podcast "No way in Rhythmbox 2.96 to see a *full* list of podcast subscriptions" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Technomancer> o/
<Technomancer> greetings from Gentoo
<bigcalm> -.-
<Technomancer> zleap: alive ?
<zleap> yep
<zleap> i was in #dclug on anoter sever
<zleap> server
<Technomancer> on mine ?
 * Technomancer = Flash
<zleap> ia m good
<zleap> sorry playing with lego and stop motion
<zleap> ah, i thought the name sounded familar
<Seeker`> o/
<mgdm> o/
<Pendulum> hiya
<popey> o/
<AlanBell> \o
<mgdm> How's everyone?
<penguin421> full of apple crumble :-)
<mgdm> a good way to be
<penguin421> nod
 * BigRedS has run out of cake :(
 * mgdm has cake as his girlfriend just made some
 * Laney has parkin for the same reason
<mgdm> I believe that means I win an internet
<mgdm> parkin?
<Laney> cake made mainly from oatmeal + treacle
<mgdm> ahh
<zleap> hi all
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<BigRedS> Bug 1058073 has been annoying me all day, and I'm sure that were I more aesthetically inclined I'd know which theme to modify (or which theme to change) to fix it. Anyone got any suggestions?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1058073 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "The currently active tab looks very much like all the inactive ones" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058073
<bittin> i watched My Little Pony whole day :)
<mgdm> You type well for an 8 year old!
<bittin> :(
<bootlkjkgf> AlanBell, You didn't miss much in the hangout .. it all turned politik eventually. Boring.
<zleap> bittin, kids tv is wonderful eh
<BigRedS> Kids TV redubbed in welsh is hilarious
<shauno> I used to find padraig post oddly mesmerising
<mgdm> Heh
<mgdm> Now, there's a thing. Those were all made by the company I now work for (the Scottish Gaelic ones, I mean)
<mgdm> I've been asking around for the tapes...
<BigRedS> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-28
<MooDoo> morning all
<nixtux> Morning
<mungbean_> my wheely bins didn't even blow over
<mungbean_> and the trains are cancelled until after 9am
<MooDoo> mungbean_: one of mine did last night, but I moved it so it wouldn't
<mungbean_> i put mine out on the street for collection, half expected to find it embedded in car windscreen
<diplo_> Ripped the lock off my back gate and a fence panel, was a tad blowy
<AlanBell> snapped the bolt on my gate, and knocked a few fence pannels down
<mungbean_> no trains until 10am now
<popey> No damage here
<shauno> no damage here, just a whole lot of sideways water
<MooDoo> nothing up hear either, just a bit rainy.
<mungbean_> it was really going some at 6am
<mungbean_> thought the trees were gonna go over
<gordonjcp> it was pretty wet here
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, that's been a good weekend for sleep. NOT.
<AlanBell> got all your trees still TheOpenSourcerer?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yesterday on in-laws pull out sofa bed - horrendously uncomfortable.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tonight woke up about 3am and didn;t go back to sleep/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, it would appear so.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did think one looked decidedly unstable around 5am but it held up.
<AlanBell> I have just come in from fixing the back gate shut
<SuperMatt> wearing my saucy shirt today \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> How was the wedding of the decade?
<AlanBell> very good
 * TheOpenSourcerer has yet to venture down the footpath to see if the wobbly fence is still there or not.
<TheOpenSourcerer> cool.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Animation Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> ooh, I like animation
<JamesTait> Me too, but I'mpretty useless at it.
<JamesTait> Here is my contribution; it's roughly 15 years old: http://ubuntuone.com/11S3Ddg1gWb2QgCacXB4jP
<Myrtti> OH MY GAWD, it's a bright light phenomena! What is this sorcery, have Witches of Cambridgeshire done their magic?
<Myrtti> I thought it was supposed to be miserable whole day!
<SuperMatt> so, who here is skipping work today?
<popey> \o/ WFH
<mungbean_> my train service start time has gone from 9->10->12
<mungbean_> so game over regarding going in
<mungbean_> don't have my work laptop though
<mungbean_> and i'm gonna find it hard to reseat that 10gb card that aint working
<AlanBell> I might go to the office later, I was all prepared for working from home, but it looks OK out now
<JamesTait> How are we all coping with the storm?  It's just been really rainy here.
<JamesTait> (Where "here" is Derby).
<BigRedS> London's largely impervious to weather
<BigRedS> so we're fine here
<BigRedS> except the tube's down
<mungbean_> getting iggle piggle sohved in my face
<mungbean_> quite hard to work from home when unprepared
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> Working from home can be really nice though :)
<mungbean_> not when there's no food
<jussi> mungbean_: lack of food certainly is a bit of a downer
<popey> Half term too
<mungbean_> and i had been intending to buy anniversary present on way to work
<jussi> ouch
<mungbean_> for tomorrow
<Myrtti> I had to resort to porridge as there's no other bread than Finnish rye and I'm not wasting it on my own breakfast
 * popey had eggs
<Myrtti> this is unrelated to the weather tho
<Myrtti> ooh, it's the light phenomena again
<jussi> I had porridge and it was nice :)
<jussi> with Butter :D
<jussi> given though, I have full access to food and shops and stuff
<jussi> mungbean_: are you Uk side again ?
<jussi> err
<jussi> Myrtti: ^^
<Myrtti> yeah.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<brobostigon> good morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> morning brobostigon! How's things?
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> BigRedS: my eczema is abit upside down, otherwise fine, trying arrange a night out with my fiance for friday. and you?
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<mungbean_> how was the bigcalm wedding?
<BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, not bad. Bit miffed by the lack of exciting weather this morning
<mungbean_> who went? popey ?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: yes, the weather came and gone quickly enough here, that i slept through it.
<mungbean_> anyone know of a good remote access solution for providing 2 factor auth to remote desktops i.e. a TS broker service?
<brobostigon> openvpn, using yubikey for 2factor auth. ?
<mungbean_> not quite as extensive as a vpn
<mungbean_> just for providing 2 factor aut gateway to various terminal servers securely
<diplo> We used id cards, can't remember what they're called now..
<mungbean_> MS do a TS gateway, but relying on MS VM for security scares me
<diplo> heh, I wouldn't either, but vpn + smart cards worked for us
<mungbean_> vpn not an option given the users
<mungbean_> cannot require installation of clients
<diplo> :/
<diplo> We paired our cisco with the ad to allow / disable vpn but you would still need to setup login details on each machine I guess
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> so is everyones homes intact after the horrific storms?
<MooDoo> storm?  we've had a storm?
<MooDoo> in all seriousness, we weren't affected, but I've seem some horrific images of people that have :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm with you hence checking is everyone else was alright especially those down south and on the cost by all accounts
<BigRedS> Oh, all I've seen is a broken crane. Not sure I want to look for more photos :(
<mungbean_> besides gumtree and ebay, where would people flog stolen stuff online?
<SuperMatt> bash question: I know I can use && to run a command if the previous command exits with status 0, but is there an alternative for exit status > 0?
<mungbean_> friend had some stuff nicked
<SuperMatt> mungbean_: preloved
 * TheOpenSourcerer just went out to check the fencing - old rickety fence OK. One garden trellis failed. Looks like the posts were rotten
<mungbean_> ta SuperMatt
<mungbean_> i suspect the stuff won't surface online
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I think there is ; let me double check
<BigRedS> mungbean_: anything in particular?
<BigRedS> I'd keep an eye on relevant classifieds; bicycles in London go to Brick Lane
<davmor2> SuperMatt: sorry it's ||
<davmor2> SuperMatt: http://askubuntu.com/questions/334994/which-one-is-better-using-or-to-execute-multiple-commands-in-one-line
<BigRedS> || is 'or'; so  `X || Y` reads as "if X returns true, do Y"
<mungbean_> stuff like hohner b2 bass guitar
<SuperMatt> davmor2: thanks
<BigRedS> no, it reads as "Do X and if that isn't true, do Y"
<BigRedS> Argh. /me gets some coffee
<mungbean_> i imagine a burglar almost never sells direct
<SuperMatt> boot sales might be good
<mungbean_> true
<davmor2> BigRedS: no it just does X regardless of X's output do Y after
<SuperMatt> but chances are they've already given it to a place like cash converters
<BigRedS> mungbean_: yeah, when I was burgled a while back they found some of my stuff in a house that seemed to have been used as a depot for local thieves
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah
<BigRedS> davmor2: hang on, no, that's ;
<BigRedS> X ; Y will do Y whatever X says
<davmor2> BigRedS: I know it's one of them
<BigRedS> X || Y will do Y if X fails (returns >0)
<davmor2> BigRedS: that ask ubuntu page does a pretty good explanation
<BigRedS> X && Y will do Y if X succeeds (returns 0)
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, probably better than I can squeeze into IRC :)
<BigRedS> but the bit I meant to get across is that these are 'and' and 'or' and so only incidentally ways to control when to run which command
<BigRedS> they're not bash syntax so much as conventions that almost everybody uses
<BigRedS> and you can only determine if two things are true by testing both of them, but you can tell that only one is ('or') as soon as one of them has suceeded, without bothering to test the second
<AlanBell> the Libertus Solutions global headquarters appears to have survived the storm without incident
<brobostigon> woop
<jussi> aww, thats no fun! :P :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> The heavens appear to have just opened
<TheOpenSourcerer> And closed again!
<TheOpenSourcerer> And open again!
<popey> WEATHER UPDATE!
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> popey: Im getting worried...
<jussi> Nothing from DX yet :/
<popey> heh
<popey> colour me unsurprised
<GentileBen> "Libertus Solutions global headquarters" <-- you mean your caravan, AlanBell?
<Seeker`> It was sunny when I left work to walk to the car. I looked like I had been swimming 3 mins later when I got to the car
<Seeker`> that escalated quickly
<mungbean_> could this be the most expensive storm ever? one wheelie bin blew over and millions are unable to travel to work.
<GentileBen> mungbean_: I saw giant plant pots shattered on my abortive trip to work today.
<dwatkins> a tree went through the cab of a train
<GentileBen> Had to turn back when my umbrella was blown inside-out.
<mgdm> eh? :)
<GentileBen> dwatkins, an improvement for First Capital Connect.
<GentileBen> FCC basically cancelled every train on the Midlands line.
<mgdm> If I phoned in to work that I wasn't coming in because my umbrella was broken I'd get laughed at
<mungbean_> FCC and GA and SWT cancelled every train in the south east too
<GentileBen> mgdm: I told them I'd been blown into Surrey.
<mgdm> heh
<mungbean_> the upside is you can have a post-lunch snooze in your own bed in your lunch hour
<mungbean_> and be properly productive in the afternoon
<directhex> chiltern cancelled all trains
<GentileBen> I turned back when, after standing on the platform for 10 minutes, I realised something was afoot, as I was the only person on the platform.
<mungbean_> i get all my news off facebook
<GentileBen> I find working from home pretty difficult.
<GentileBen> I'm doing documentation today.
<mungbean_> fortunately so does my wife and she read something on her facebook about trains being down
<GentileBen> This is even worse than when people get hit by trains.
<GentileBen> It's that bad.
<GentileBen> As an aside, I've noticed people getting hit by trains more often in these months vs earlier in the year.
<mungbean_> i prefer BST than GMT
<popey> \o/ UTC
<GentileBen> I prefer GMT+2.
<mungbean_> nobody needs daylight at 6am
<GentileBen> We should man the fuck up and move to Berlin Time.
<mungbean_> everybody needs daylight at 4.30pm
<GentileBen> mungbean_, the dumbass Scots do.
<GentileBen> Takes an hour later for their sunrise.
<mungbean_> scots can do their own thing
<GentileBen> mungbean_, I hope so.
 * mgdm glares at GentileBen 
<GentileBen> It's going to be hilarious if the Scots vote for independence....I sincerely hope we move to CET aka GMT+2.
<GentileBen> They're going to have to move with us, for business reasons.
<GentileBen> And hey, I hope they enjoy their 10am sunrises.
<mungbean_> any govt that actually does the permanent bst change will get my vote
<GentileBen> When will people learn? We need daylight in the evenings, not mornings.
<mungbean_> they mooted it couple of years back, prompting a flurry of bbc articles and radio 4 chin stroking
<GentileBen> They tried it in the 70s didn't they?:
<GentileBen> They tried being on BST all year.
<GentileBen> I'm advocating DST but with BST or BST+1.
<popey> \o/ DBS check nearly complete
<GentileBen> So basically our clocks go forward one hour.
<mgdm> popey: You're getting an Aston Martin...?
<popey> heh, no
<popey> CRB (as was) check
<mgdm> ahh
<mgdm> didn't know they'd renamed it
<mungbean_> what are you doing with children?
<popey> yeah, much better now
<mgdm> CodeClub related?
<GentileBen> Did they rename it?
<popey> can use one check for multiple locations
<popey> and have it renewed automagically
<popey> yes
<popey> and yes
<popey> and codeclub
<GentileBen> popey they'd been claiming that for years.
<GentileBen> Ever since Ian Huntley.
<popey> its also much faster
<popey> my application was received 4 days ago, and it's already nearly done
<mungbean> wow, how much? Â£30?
<popey> free via codeclub
<mungbean> somebody pays
<popey> free to me via codeclub
<GentileBen> popey, my "he's not a paedophile" certificate ran out a year or so ago.
<popey> we all pay, it's gov funded
<popey> oh noes, GentileBen is now a paedicurist!
<GentileBen> I had to do an Enhanced CRB.
<mungbean> is codeclub a nationwide thing?
<popey> yes
<popey> global now
<GentileBen> It's amazing the lengths you have to go to if you want little girls to sit on your lap.
<popey> CodeClub = uk
<popey> CodeClub World = global
<GentileBen> Another example of the namby-pampy wet nanny state PC brigade.
<popey> Well indeed.
<GentileBen> Didn't the Torycunts want to make anybody who worked with kids get a CRB? Or was that ZaNuLieBore?
<popey> ahem
<popey> language please GentileBen
<GentileBen> Sorry popey.
<GentileBen> *New Labour
<mungbean> there's a codeclub about 5 miles away
<DJones> Hmmh, 2 burned out vans in less than a week, /me wonders whether we've got an arsonist on the payroll
<mgdm> o_O
<DJones> Even stranger, one at a depot, one outside drivers house at the weekend, 20 miles apart, and both driven by the same employee (in terms of his old van, and his new replacement van)
<penguin42> DJones: Or a faulty van model?
<diddledan> DJones: was there anything of value in them?
<DJones> Different makes & models of van, filled with truck tyre fitting equipment, equipment probably worth Â£10k
<Seeker`> was the equipment still in the van after it was burnt out?
<diddledan> just wondering whether it's a case of theft rather than arson
<DJones> As far as I know it was
<penguin42> blood stains as well?
<DJones> I think the driver may be getting a bit of a grilling at the moment
<Seeker`> DJones: you probably shouldn't leave him in the van while it is burning
<penguin42> DJones: Well you'd better baste him
<DJones> BBQ'd welshman......
<diddledan> I like a bit of lamb
<diddledan> or would it be mutton?
<diddledan> my chrome browser seems unable to resolve any hostnames right now
<diddledan> resolving it using dig in the terminal works and then reloading the browser straight after it works fine
<BigRedS> diddledan: anything in your hosts file?
<diddledan> it's pretty much every site on the web
<diddledan> I certainly don't have a hostfile entry for www.hsbc.co.uk
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't think there's anything you can stick in there that would break dns that horribly
<popey> alan@deep-thought:/tmp/1225910$ env | grep proxy
<popey> http_proxy=http://192.168.1.2:3128/
<popey> https_proxy=http://192.168.1.2:3128/
<popey> oops
<popey> sorry
<Myrtti> would someone want to buy me some ethernet cable? only 1,195USD/1.5m
<diddledan> popey: I think my computer is more powerful than yours - mine is called "earth" :-p
<Seeker`> Myrtti: wut?
<Myrtti> http://www.audioquest.com/ethernet/diamond
<Myrtti> 100% silver
<mungbean> monster cable
<DJones> I was sort of hoping that the 1.5m meant 1.5 miles
<Myrtti> http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-vodka-ethernet-cable-and-diamond-ethernet-cable
<diddledan> oic, it's 1k195, not 1point195
<Myrtti> nevermind gilded plugs, silver all the way down
<SpookyMatt> when will audiophiles realise that digital doesn't degrade (at least on in the same way as analogue). If you really care about your audio quality, just don't freaking use any digital equipment at all
<diddledan> SpookyMatt: they also don't seem to appreciate that every transition between materials is going to induce artifacts
<daubers> Afternoon peeps
<mungbean> i bought a monster cable once
<mungbean> needed a 5m cable for my ps2.
<mungbean> got sent the wrong one, never got round to swapping it
<mungbean> fail
<mungbean> thought facebook woulda been more busy today
<mungbean> but its the same league of mums with newborns
<mungbean> clicking like on every new item
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> is something important happening today then?
<mungbean> i know about 10 mums in my feed with kids under 1yr
<mungbean> national no work day
<mungbean> and work from home day
<diddledan> ooh
<mungbean> where the train companies sponsor us all to WFH for a day
<mungbean> you have to fill in a dumb form to get the sponsor money tohugh..."delay repay" or sumthing
<SpookyMatt> https://twitter.com/Dom_Rob/status/394835518368022528 oh great, bomb disposal robot near my office
<penguin42> SpookyMatt: Check, you know where you left your bags....
<SpookyMatt> My bag is under my desk with me
<mungbean> aww wall-e got lost
<SpookyMatt> I'm quite tempted to walk down there and see it
<SpookyMatt> but effort
<SpookyMatt> y'know?
<bigcalm[dover]> Good evening peeps :)
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: got a reply from the BBC regarding that music track
<mgdm> mungbean: what was it?
<bigcalm[dover]> Waiting at Dover for a ferry. Sea looks a tad choppy
<bigcalm[dover]> Evening? I mean afternoon. Having been awake since 3.30am has warped my sense of time a little
<Myrtti> we went to Cambridge on Saturday because I had to collect something from a friend who'd been to US and get some clothes from M&S
<mungbean> mgdm: MartijnVdS It was a piece of library music from Justemente. Album: Indietronika Track: Spaceship
<Myrtti> queued for about 45 minutes to the shopping centre car park only to find it closed, later found out there was a bomb scare and there had been two controlled explosions earlier
<mgdm> mungbean: not on Spotify then :-)
<mungbean> mgdm: http://www.echomusic.com.tw/echo/tw/music01_info.jspx?id=4028818a2b67c49d012b6aee91200204&ablumid=4028818a341d5cec0134209c7e66001c
<mungbean> mgdm: can listen here: http://www.sakuranotes.jp/Disc5041.html
<penguin42> interesting way to leave a company for the last time; I took the stairs where they were doing the evacuation chair training....
<popey> MOAR TEA NEEDED!
<mungbean> now to find out how to buy it
<davmor2> popey: you mean you didn't grab a load of those oggcamp travel mugs and turn them into a massive tea barrel
<mungbean> any japanese speakers here?
<DJones> mungbean: I've got some Sony speakers at home, does that count?
<mungbean> groan
<mungbean> looks like its a music library rather than an album to buy
<Azelphur> wtf, gmail is dumping youtube notification mails into the spam box
<Azelphur> silly gmail.
<diddledan> gmail doens't even know google's own emails?!
<diddledan> yey for overzealous spambots
<diddledan> is it a win that google dumps it's own marketing in the bin along with everyone else?
<penguin42> well, it would be wrong for them to discriminate
<BigRedS> I wonder if there's some unhealthy rivalry between the YouTube and GMail teams
<mgdm> over who can send the most pointless emails?
<mgdm> perhaps; I got a pile of "Have you seen $blah on YouTube?" emails this morning that I neither need nor want
<mgdm> However, they both lose out to the G+ team for the prize
<mgdm> although the "what is your real name?" feature on YouTube deserves a special mention for being particularly irritating and unnecessary
<mungbean> doing work on my 5yr old home laptop is not good
<mungbean> fan is about to spin off its spindle
<mungbean> SpookyMatt: "Spoke to a police officer, he said it was some sort of incendiary device, ie, it could be something highly explosive, does not mean a deliberate bomb though"
<SpookyMatt> yeah, I saw that
<SpookyMatt> still, it was a bit of excitement for all of 10 seconds
<mungbean> another week and my amazon gift voucher balance grows.
<mungbean> nothing to spend it on
<SpookyMatt> spend it on me
<SpookyMatt> lavish me with gifts
<mungbean> my wife tried that one
<SpookyMatt> dang
<SpookyMatt> ok, think about all the things you want your wife to do, and then exchange the vouchers for that
<SpookyMatt> note: doesn't have to be anything to do with sexitimes
<SpookyMatt> a week without cooking or something
<SpookyMatt> I don't know
<SpookyMatt> I don't have a wife
<mungbean> both of us are too tired to trade favours
<SpookyMatt> oh well
<SpookyMatt> just save up for something totes awesome
<mungbean> a tv
<mungbean> only 10% of way there :(
<mungbean> wifey received 2 dozen roses for the anniversary though
<Seeker`> mungbean: I wonder what a 'device' is. It could just be something like a petrol container?
<mungbean> box of swan vestas
<penguin42> Seeker`: In the case of the last one we had in Manchester it turned out to be someones laptop in a backpack with scary looking cables
<Seeker`> penguin42: how do cables look "scary"? Are they wrapped in bandages like a mummy? Don't have a reflection?
<penguin42> Seeker`: Oh you know big and curly with boxes at the end
<SpookyMatt> I'll tell you something, I once went to Science Museum lates, and they had us beuild really basic robots. It was essentially a plastic cup upturned, a motor with an odd shaped weight on the end, a couple of wires and a battery pack
<SpookyMatt> we then had to decorate it with pipe cleaners, googly eyes, etc
<SpookyMatt> when I took it home on the tube, I got some really worried looks
<SpookyMatt> it was very inoffensive, but there were just enough people with very little knowledge of circuitry to get them worried
<SpookyMatt> one person starts looking worried, everyone else wonders what's up too
<dwatkins> the rain has started in Edinburgh, it's rather apocalyptic outside: http://www.eastsidecottages.co.uk/webcam/
<penguin42> dwatkins: I went to Edinburgh for the 1st time last week, it certainly can get a heck of a mix of weather in a day can't it?
<penguin42> nice city though
<penguin42> (train journey from Manc is a bit grim, last hour is  sheep/pine trees/sheep/pine trees....)
<mgdm> I did that trip ~3 weeks ago
<mgdm> I thought that was the best bit
<mgdm> but the weather was not bad that day
<penguin42> mgdm: There were some places where the wind turbines were cutting through cloud which was nice - I wish I'd been awake enough to get a picture
<mgdm> apparently this is in Denmark: http://i.imgur.com/roIGr1p.jpg
<mgdm> the wind turbines make fog
<penguin42> oh nice
<xnox> James Blunt's Bonfire Heart -> since when did he stop singing in an annoying voice? =)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: cool!
<dwatkins> penguin42: yep, it's great fun.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Went to the KVM forum
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I saw some videos from that
<MartijnVdS> wery intewesting!
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Could you hear any of the audio on them?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: on some
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: well, on the ones I tried
<penguin42> I think they were going to replace the live stream recordings with better stuff
<MartijnVdS> though they are a bit tinny at times
<penguin42> ok, that's got to be better than the 1st day stuff - that was useless when I tried to watch it on the 1st day
<MartijnVdS> higher quality would not hurt at all
<penguin42> oh the 1st day they had mike problems
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ah, I just get the "we only have 3kbps for audio" noise
<MartijnVdS> so you can hear what they're saying, but you have to concentrate
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh no on the ones I was trying to watch they were breaking up multiple times a second - they were initially using bluetooth in a room with about 150 laptops
<MartijnVdS> ...
<MartijnVdS> Virtualization people, never considering the real-world implications of their choices :P
<penguin42> hehe
<gayan> Hello
<gayan> Can you pls tell me how to install hadoop ubuntu
<popey> AlanBell: http://askubuntu.com/a/45257/612 for building rebuilding ubuntu
<stevepdp> evening o/
<brobostigon> evening stevepdp
<AlanBell> popey: I think that is doing something slightly different
<popey> well. you could boot a pi on debian, add apt-build and build ubuntu via that?
<AlanBell> so repoint the deb src lines to the ubuntu repos, and apt-build things
<popey> you would also need the deb src for debian for the build deps
<popey> to get bootstrapped maybe?
<popey> i used Core Linux years back and bootstrapped up from next to nothing to a full-ish desktop
<popey> could do the same but getting the source packages from ubuntu and building
<AlanBell> hmm, that kinda doesn't work
<AlanBell> doing apt-build install tar as a normal user fails, because it needs root
<AlanBell> use sudo and it fails because configure needs not to have root
<AlanBell> needs FORCE_UNSAFE_CONFIGURE=1 to be set in root's environment or something
<AlanBell> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWannaBuildInfrastructureOnOneServer looks good
<AlanBell> I think the basic idea is you set up your wanna-build server and have a bunch of builders running buildd
<penguin42> AlanBell: fakeroot ?
<AlanBell> I think it just isn't the right approach
<AlanBell> so if I was to mirror the full source archive, how much disk space would that need
<AlanBell> and host a full binary archive once built
 * penguin42 hates to think
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors not too bad
<AlanBell> for one release about 7GB for the binary archive
<popey> its way more than that i thought
<penguin42> that's way smaller than what I thought!
<penguin42> AlanBell: Don't forget that's dominated by some big stuff as well
<AlanBell> looks like running apt-mirror for raring wants 103.8 GiB
<AlanBell> which is 60GiB of binary and 44GiB of sources
<penguin42> seems an odd balance - I'd have expected a much bigger ratio
<AlanBell> that appears to be right, downloading the sources now onto a 300GB disk, which hopefully will be attached to the controlling server that does wanna-build
<penguin42> AlanBell: You are only getting the current source aren't you?
<AlanBell> so that will do wanna-build which manages the queue for the builders, and it will host the repositories
<AlanBell> yeah, just raring
<AlanBell> using apt-mirror
<AlanBell> but comented out the deb lines, just doing deb-src
<Myrtti> dwatkins: http://imgur.com/gallery/2kXy0ER SUCH PUMPKIN
<dwatkins> Myrtti: that's awesome
<dwatkins> This meme explains a lot.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-29
<AlanBell> yay, download completed, 44.4 GiB of source pulled (main is 7.3 GiB) in about 3 hours
<penguin42> make
<AlanBell> heh
<penguin42> AlanBell: So how many Pi's are you going to use
<AlanBell> dunno
<penguin42> 10, 100?
<AlanBell> one for the wanna-build machine and repository, another couple as buildd machines until I prove it works as a concept, then I will add a bunch more
<AlanBell> and I can keep adding them until it goes fast :)
<predator8bit> hello, I have a little bit of a problem connecting to some hotspots, I have a wireless router which is secured by password and I can connect to that, but at a local place I cant connect to an unsecure one
<predator8bit> meaning my wireless card is fine, but somethings up with it at the same time
<AlanBell> I am contemplating doing a kickstarter/indiegogo thing for the build farm, and making it a permanent thing
<AlanBell> predator8bit: maybe try going to edit connections and delete the saved details for that connection
<predator8bit> been there, didnt work
<knightwise> hey everyone
<shauno> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> is it Nexus 5-day yet?
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS shauno
<knightwise> how are you guys
<knightwise> I have played with the new nexus 7 in the store this week
<knightwise> also looks pretty spiffy
<MartijnVdS> but it's not a phone ;)
<MartijnVdS> my Galaxy Nexus is starting to fall apart
<knightwise> I have a note2 at the moment
<knightwise> pretty pleased with it so far
<MartijnVdS> I prefer the Nexuses, because of the lack of crapware
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> although I must say the samsung was pretty ok
<knightwise> they didnt add a lot of crap
<knightwise> hmm .. i just installed snownews on my system
<knightwise> nice clean rss newsreader
<knightwise> but no way to import my google reader opml files :(
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I use feedly.com for that
<knightwise> So do I
<knightwise> but I wanted a command line reader too
<knightwise> its very un-distracting to just read on a ablack background
<MartijnVdS> Feedly's "night" theme? ;)
<knightwise> also something I could try
<knightwise> But I like to work in the command line from time to time
<knightwise> that way I can just my thing on my little home server while tunneling away via an SSH tunnel
<knightwise> so work technies cant snif my traffic
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: look into ssh -D ;)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it sets up a Socks proxy you can point your browser at, so all your browser traffic seems to come from the ssh connection's other end
<knightwise> I also played with SSHuttle
<knightwise> also very cool beans :)
<knightwise> but i work on a windows machine at work :(
<knightwise> so I don't have a lot of fancy linux dingdongs
<knightwise> only putty
<knightwise> and an ssh tunnel :)
<SpookyMatt> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<knightwise> hey AlanBell
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diddledan> morning brobostigon
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Internet Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: do we all get a free Internet?
<JamesTait> YES!
<MartijnVdS> \o/ free internets
<JamesTait> * See MartijnVdS for details
<directhex> free internets! only $3.99 each!
<knightwise> anyone want some salt on his free internet today ?
<diddledan> directhex: plus applicable taxes and shipping
<MartijnVdS> also, void where prohibited.
<arsen> i wana build a shared linux host for say 2-3 users, with large cpu/memory for some intensive software, and have them all use say... vnc or something to connect to it and use simultaneously. All of this as opposed to say.. buying 3x high powered desktops that spend 50% of their time doing nothing. i was looking at like .. vmware or something as some sort of logical seperation, but i'm now thinking i can probably just do this natively in linux - but my difficult
<arsen> thinking aloud, but could be a fun system to build.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultiseatX ?
<arsen> ooh, thanks :D
<arsen> so i guess i'd like to do it over the network (then i can use a rackmount server with significantly higher spec) - is that feasible? i think the limitation comes from vnc being able to handle multiple displays.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: you can use "remote desktop"
<MartijnVdS> arsen: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClients
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<Myrtti> hum
<arsen> hoe hum, this could get pretty complex. can't help but think ESXi with some flexible hardware limits would tick the box
<arsen> daftykins  o/
<daftykins> hi sir
<daftykins> just reconfigured my router... after my ISP remotely reset it...
<daftykins> day after i'd left the island =|
<arsen> hmph.
<arsen> where you at these days?
<MartijnVdS> how rude!
<daftykins> just returned to Guernsey after a little over 10 days galavanting around England
<directhex> wait, an arsen and a daftykins and a directhex?
<daftykins> this can mean only one thing...
<directhex> just like old times!
<daftykins> XD
<arsen> \o/
<directhex> mandatory http://bash.org/?search=directhex&sort=0&show=25
<arsen> ffs
<daftykins> should we wear black hats and crowd around a fire?
<arsen> showed my boss that again the other day.
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> i remember that day.
<arsen> "look at me - i'm internet famous for being a 'tard"
<arsen> ive not even clicked the link, i know what it is :<
<daftykins> best part was i thought the same but instinctively poked a key :(
<MartijnVdS> arsen: aww :)
<daftykins> arsen: how be thee?
<daftykins> in fact how are we all?
<directhex> NAKED! erm, i mean, meetings all day and definitely not naked
<arsen> i think that was ~10 years ago :p
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> we're THAT old.
<arsen> depressing eh.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: only the bit that's visible on the webcam is clothed, right?
<directhex> maybe a bit less
<directhex> closer to 9 years
<directhex> MartijnVdS, my majestic torso cannot be contained!
<daftykins> directhex: it doesn't soften the blow
<directhex> MartijnVdS, nah, i'm wearing a t-shirt with offensive text on it
<daftykins> Fliss begs to differ
<arsen> i wish i could wear offensive tshirts :(
<MartijnVdS> arsen: you can!
<arsen> i could put it under my shirt i guess.
 * MartijnVdS gives arsen permission to do so
<daftykins> hah
<arsen> hey here's somethign i thought of the other day - is anyone aware of an infrastructure/hardware style channel on freenode?
<arsen> geared towards.. enterprise/business kit, rather than gaming PCs.
<mungbean> a bit like the server room forum on ars techinca?
<arsen> kinda yeah. i just find myself dealing with hardware a lot recently and i have nobody to talk about it with :D
<MartijnVdS> arsen: your $hardware_company representative! ;)
<mungbean> i have same problem
<mungbean> with ibm kit
<MartijnVdS> mungbean, arsen: Start a channel :)
<arsen> yeah, sales guys just want sales though :)
<arsen> yeah i did - didn't know what to call it, made #infrastructure and was surprised nobody was in there already.
<mungbean> Cannot join to channel #sysadmin (You must be invited)
<arsen> that's probably why nobody is in there. xD
<MartijnVdS> #big-hardware?
<mgdm> try ##sysadmin
<mgdm> (wild guess)
<mungbean> Cannot join to channel ##sysadmin (Bad channel key)
<mgdm> ah well
<arsen> i'll stick with #infrastructure - covers more than just servers i guess.
<directhex> * Now talking on ###sysadmin
<MartijnVdS> directhex++
<mungbean> try #reddit-sysadmin
<arsen> now to remember how to ircadmin.
<daftykins> arsen: :o you gonna make that server we spoke of?
<arsen> which what where? :o
<andrewebdev> anyone with nodejs experience able to help me with this? http://askubuntu.com/questions/367846/how-can-i-install-older-version-of-node-less
<Azelphur> Does anyone know when you hit the criteria for fibre being too slow and requiring repairs?
<Azelphur> I'm only getting 31.15mbit on my up to 72mbit line
<daftykins> O_O
<mungbean> i wonder what the cost difference between dyson hand dryer and the mistubishi almost identical ripoffs
<mgdm> Messiest urinals ever, those
<daftykins> XD
<Azelphur> This is pretty bizarre actually, if I test on bbmax I get 60mbitish
<Azelphur> but everywhere else, consistently poor results.
<AlanBell> Azelphur: you are plugged directly into it? no wifi or anything else in the way?
<Azelphur> ethernet to router running dd-wrt to fiber modem
<AlanBell> you can plug direct into the ADSL2 box if you install pppoe
<AlanBell> but yeah, that should be fine, if the router is fine
<Azelphur> yea, routers fairly beefy
<Azelphur> WRT610N running DD-WRT, it's always been high performance
<daftykins> what are you getting on real world transfers?
<Azelphur> 2MB/sec from my server in NYC (dedicated 1gbit)
<AlanBell> Azelphur: we are getting a fairly solid 69.73Mbps down our line as measured by speedtest.net
<Azelphur> It's speeding up a tad now, managed to get 45. Seems to have /huge/ jumps in speed o.O
<Azelphur> but yea, http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3065455675 and http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3065489100
<Azelphur> those two tests are only 20 minutes apart
<AlanBell> bit of local contention maybe
<Azelphur> maybe, that's a huge amount of contention
<Azelphur> don't mind us, just overselling your 70mbit connection down to 20. xD
<Seeker`> Azelphur: Originally, BT Infinity required at least 16 mbit I think
<Azelphur> I see, not hitting the threshold...just
<AlanBell> how can I locally test the speed of my wireless network card?
<AlanBell> I have something that is on the wired lan I guess I could netcat stuff to it, I just wonder if there is a tool that just does it
<ali1234> i used wget for it
<ali1234> fetching the same file over and over on a loop
<ali1234> then running md5sums on it
<ali1234> got loads of errors, i think it was a bad card
<popey> iperf
<popey> AlanBell: iperf -s on one box, iperf -c <ip of other box> on the other
<DJones> popey: Are you ok for a pm
<popey> anytime
<AlanBell> thanks popey, exactly what I wanted
<MartijnVdS> hey, twitter now expands photos by default
<MartijnVdS> from supported services
<arsen> nload is also handy if you want to view your inbound/outbound on an interface - means you can see the bandwidth ceiling pretty easily :P
<diddledan> two for tuesday sounds tempting
<Azelphur> oh wow, I figured out why my internet is having issues
<Azelphur> great, it's cleanfeed.
<Azelphur> welcome to chinafiltering folks, it only goes downhill from here.
<Azelphur> can't load pretty much any pages on imgur any more, since all the traffic is trying to be routed through talktalks crappy cleanfeed server that can't take the load, time to tunnel all traffic on port 80 I guess. -.-
<diddledan> Azelphur: ouch
<diddledan> that's bad
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> $ ping -c 20 imgur.com 20 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 19142ms
<Azelphur> I get 1 packet through every 200 or so.
<moreati> Azelphur: httpseverywhere might do https://imgur.com/ the can't filter want they can't decrypt
<Azelphur> this is actually a very good test of it
<diddledan> 99.5% packet loss, nice
<Azelphur> I'm gonna try and load the exact same image, at the exact same time, https and http, see what happens.
<diddledan> are any other sites affected or is it only imgur?
<Azelphur> only imgur.
<Azelphur> and the packet loss is inside talktalk
<shauno> Azelphur: curiously, I've heard that on other ISPs recently; http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-60Mb-Speed/imgur-com-very-slow/td-p/2007786  and http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1orqkp/imgur_blocked_for_virginmedia_customers/
<Azelphur> shauno: yes, that's how I figured it out.
<Azelphur> looks like it's done at the IP level too, so I can't even get through on HTTPS.
<diddledan> and this is why I sign every petition I come across related to censorship
<MartijnVdS> time to come to .nl! no censorship like that *by law*
<Azelphur> \o/
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: damn you dutch!
<Azelphur> now I can't browse reddit since 99% of the content is on imgur
<Azelphur> :(
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: *bless
<ali1234> i told you not to get talktalk
<shauno> I've said for years that it's much easier to be british when you don't have to live there.  it's not meant to sound as mean as it ends up though
<ali1234> i told you....
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can't you call your ISP and say you're over 18 and want the adult internet, or something
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: cleanfeed superceeds that.
<MartijnVdS> wow, evil
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I wonder if I could use this as means to break contract
<Azelphur> SSH tunneling to my server in USA for now, imgur works fine again :)
<penguin42> shauno: I seem to be able to get imgur from vm
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, but all the traffic is being cleaned through virgins cleanfeed server
<Azelphur> and when that's slow, or unusable, you get imgur (and other sites) inaccessible
<Azelphur> which is what I'm getting now, only talktalk.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Interestingly I am seeing odd things with google maps/image searches with it having problems with lots of open connections - e.g. an image search where it displays hundreds of iamges I'm seeing a lot stalling
<Azelphur> fun
<moreati> penguin42: long shot, does your router have a public IP? What your decribing sounds like a failure mode of carrier grade NAT
<penguin42> moreati: Yes it does have public IP
<penguin42> moreati: However, whether Google sees those IPs directly or whether it ends up going through some hideous combination of caches/'transparent' proxies/filters then who the heck knows
<shauno> odd, those are both almost entirely https here
<penguin42> shauno: Do they do that for things like image search results?
<shauno> they go even stranger for image results, they use data: blobs instead of making another request
<shauno> google have a very bizarre idea of optimization, since everything comes out of the object storage anyway, it doesn't actually make any difference to them whether its served as a static asset or not
<diddledan> google's in a pretty unique position in that everything needs to be dynamics
<diddledan> --s
<shauno> it's not so much that it needs to be.  it's pretty much the default.  you prefer static or cache because the filesystem is faster than filesystem+exec or filesystem+preprocessor
<shauno> their backend is their object storage either way.  so shoving the results of the query out in one huge chunk is faster than having you make 60 http requests, 60 requests off the object storage, etc.  they have no filesystem to prefer
<shauno> can't help thinkign ad heuristics are quite broken.  booked a room at a hotel, because I've stayed there a few times and like the location.
<shauno> it now pops up as a little text ad in every single youtube video
<Myrtti> dwatkins: guess what?
<Myrtti> wow. So much doge!
<penguin42> shauno: Sigh yes, I hate getting ads for things I've already bought - months before
<Azelphur> wheee, this is fun. TF2 just released the halloween update, so we put up a server running the event, which filled in ~5 seconds
<Azelphur> then another...and another...and another, we're now running 10, 32 slot event servers (so 320 players)
<Azelphur> shifting 55mbit/sec xD
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-30
<diddledan> Azelphur: eep - at least you have plenty of rams
<Azelphur> xD
<diddledan> coar, you need moar cores :-p
<diddledan> are there just 32 players on that machine or are you multitenanting?
<Azelphur> diddledan: full on pretty much all servers
<Azelphur> diddledan: live stats at http://game.azelphur.com/ :)
<ali1234> that's the second time i've seen a screenshot like that today
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> what top program is that?
<Azelphur> ali1234: we are running at about 4x normal traffic
<Azelphur> htop
<diddledan> htop is awesome
<ali1234> i'm guessing if you had a problem with memory leaks you'd just ask here, rather than complain about it on reddit :)
<Azelphur> 420 players online...new record by far
<Azelphur> \o/
<diddledan> I miss it whenever it's not installed
<ali1234> i guess you could say you were... on the ball
<ali1234> google.com/+AlistairBuxton
<ali1234> anyone else get an invite for a custom url?
<Azelphur> http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1phq3r/imgur_on_iwf_again_with_talktalk_this_time/
<Azelphur> wasn't just me earlier :(
<Myrtti> Azelphur: that would explain things
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diddledan> moo
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<knightwise> how are ya today
<diddledan> ello.. not bad ta
<knightwise> hmm.. gonna see if i can find a way to setup a command line based bittorrent client toay
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install rtorrent
<MartijnVdS> done!
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: you can have the rest of the day off now :P
<knightwise> rtorrent ? Does it eat magnet links ?
<MartijnVdS> according to the googles, it does
<knightwise> ok , gonna have a look at it
<MartijnVdS> the interface takes a bit of getting used to ;)
<dubaco_1> hej, i am looking for how to file a network manager bug? it cuts out if i close the lid and when i open it will not allow me networking back, even auto eth0 - nothing ingeting denada...
<AlanBell> dubaco_1: that doesn't sound like a network manager bug to me
<AlanBell> network manager is the GUI bit that configures networking, that sounds more low level
<AlanBell> however, if you go to a terminal (when you do have networking) and type "ubuntu-bug network-manager" then you can file your bug
<AlanBell> someone will reassign it to the kernel or something if it is more appropriate there
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: the backend network-manager daemon might be getting confused
<MartijnVdS> you can check if that's it by manually configuring the network
<MartijnVdS> and/or checking the (kernel) logs -- if it can't get a device back up, it'll say so
<mungbean> what does "sync app data" do on android in the accounts&sync settings?
<dwatkins> I thought it turned on and off stuff like whether to download new e-mails to the phone.
<dwatkins> The fact you're asking the question suggests this might not be the case, however, mungbean.
<mungbean> i dunno, they don't say.
<dwatkins> I sometimes find on my 7.2 phone that it's decided to stop synchronising e-mail.
<mungbean> since switching from activesync to imap for my work mail, i've burned through all my 3g data @ 10mb per day , where previously was 1mb per day if i was lucky
<dwatkins> Sorry, Cyanogenmod 7.2, i.e. Gingerbread
<mungbean> and i don't sync the imap email
<dwatkins> I havn't kept an eye on data usage as mine's unlimited with Three.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Orthopaedic Nurses Day! :-D
<dwatkins> It amuses me that my watch notifies me of new e-mail, so I have that switched on.
<dwatkins> Merry haloween eve, JamesTait
<JamesTait> dwatkins, indeed.  Just got the decorations out of the loft. \o/
<dwatkins> o.O
<dwatkins> Oh, haloween ones, sorry - thought you were talking about christmas decorations (!)
<JamesTait> dwatkins, now, there's no call for that kind of language! :-P
<dwatkins> Apologising on IRC, or mentioning the 25th of December? ;)
<JamesTait> dwatkins, well, both.  ;)
 * dwatkins starts typing an apology then stops
<JamesTait> Heh!
<mungbean> every time i start trying to use multiple virtual desktops, after a week they all end up on the desktop1
<JamesTait> dwatkins, your watch notifies you of new e-mail?
<dwatkins> JamesTait: yeah, it's a Pebble
<JamesTait> That is definitely the kind of pointless gimmick I'd enable just for kicks. :)
<dwatkins> JamesTait: indeed, it'll also tell me when I get a phone call or an SMS, and more importantly allows me to control what music I'm listening to ;)
<dwatkins> details here https://getpebble.com/
<JamesTait> Whenever I hear somene refer to the Pepple, I always imagine someone with a small stone sundial attached to their wrist.
<JamesTait> *Pebble
<dwatkins> There's a cycling app, but it doesn't seem to work at the moment, it should show my speed and distance travelled etc.
<MartijnVdS> "The Pebble, it rocks"?
<JamesTait> dwatkins, does it tell the time?
<dwatkins> badum tschhhhh
<mungbean> my pebble is bricked
<MartijnVdS> too easy :)
<dwatkins> JamesTait: yeah, there are loads of clock faces, my favourite is the binary one with three columns
<JamesTait> mungbean, stop it!  If my wife hears me laughing out loud, she won't believe I'm working!
<popey> Morning
<SpookyMa1t> morning Alan
<ixxvil> hi
<dwatkins> Is it just me being overly paranoid, or do most other people check the URL when typing in a password just to make certain you're actually on the site you think you should be?
<dwatkins> (checking for https makes sense, and is now second nature)
<ixxvil> to install recommended security updates only
<ixxvil> i just do a apt-get upgrade or dist-upgrade?
<ixxvil> or  sudo unattended-upgrade?
<dwatkins> security updates, ixxvil? oh right, you're asking a separate question, sorry.
<ixxvil> oh ye
<ixxvil> sorry
<dwatkins> no worries, your 2nd and 3rd lines made that clear, I was just confused for a moment ;)
<BigRedS> ixxvil: unattended-upgrades is a package that configures apt to routinely download and install updates
<BigRedS> it can be itself configured to automatically apply only security patches or all updates
<BigRedS> but it's not an apt command, it's a package
<ixxvil> so what is the recommended way to only update security packages?
<ixxvil> ive got like 71 pkgs in total that needs updating and 35 are security
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: On a server or the desktop?
<ixxvil> server
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: apt-get upgrade, usually, unless there's a kernel, then dist-upgrade
<ixxvil> wont apt-get upgrade install everything
<ixxvil> i just want only the recommended ones
<MartijnVdS> If updates exist for your version of Ubuntu, they're all recommended :)
<MartijnVdS> they don't do "new versions" lightly in existing releases, because that might introduce more bugs than it fixces
<ixxvil> right but i just did apt-get upgrade
<ixxvil> and i see pkgs that make no sense nor do i use them
<ixxvil> like firefox-local-en?
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: like?
<MartijnVdS> that's the English translation of firefox?
<ixxvil> ye im not using firefox
<MartijnVdS> "apt-cache rdepends firefox-local-en" shows what depends on it
<ixxvil> k
<TheOpenSourcerer> I wonder if chrisccoulson knows when there'll be an update to Thunderbird? recent Lighting patches to fix Google CalDAV do not work on 24.0...
<BigRedS> ixxvil: depends who is recommending :) I'd always reccomend configuring unattended-upgrades since otherwise I never get around to doing them manually
<ixxvil> right i just want to find a way to update only security stuff now n then
<ixxvil> without having to do the whle thing
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: broken google CalDav, is it relatively quietly broken? Because I think mine's working (13.10) but it might not be CalDav and I'm trying to work out if missing appointments are my having not made them or Tbird having not uploaded them
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I don't trust unattended-upgrades.. I have several machines with u-a installed that *don't* actually upgrade
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ooh, debian or ubuntu? I think all that I've set u-a up on are debian, and I get billions of emails from them :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> G changed the url to support OAuth.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: both, actually
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you change your calendar URLs nothing works.
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: oh right, that should be pretty conclusively broken, then
<ixxvil> ok i did a apt-get update
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and I refuse to set up MTAs, because I always misconfigure them :)
<ixxvil> and its sort of stuck at changelogs?
<TheOpenSourcerer> there have been two recent releases of Lighting but they only work with minor updates to TB too.
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: that updates the list of available packages and versions
<ixxvil> everytime i pull down the terminal window i see more text but otherwise it just sits there
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: it can take a while for it to finish rebuilding the package cache or whatever it's doing up to 100%
<ixxvil> well then shouldnt it scroll through as it ptogresses?
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: I have no idea what you mean
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: apt-get update just updates the package list, and shows you which ones it's downloading, nothing more
<MartijnVdS> it doesn't install new/updated packages
<TheOpenSourcerer> TB24.0 should only use Lightning 2.6. TB42.0.1->Lightning 2.6.1. TB24.1.0->Lightning 2.6.2
<ixxvil> right i didnt do dist-upgrade yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am now running Lightning 2.6b2 on TB 24.0 for some odd reason.
<ixxvil> but the screnn isnt even scrolling to show progress on the downloads
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: can you post on pastebin what you *do* see?
<TheOpenSourcerer> CalDAV calendars on G don't work with that combination.
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm on TB 24 and the lightning that came out of the repos and as I say that seems like it might be working
<TheOpenSourcerer> But Mozilla are really trying hard to drop TB altogether...
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: we have customers where every so often I have to delete a many-GB cron.mbox file because they send all of cronout to a mailbox that nobody checks...
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will remove the Lightning I have installed and get it from the repo then.
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, mail clients aren't very fashionable
<BigRedS> it's all about the web!
<ixxvil> MartijnVdS: how do i check if its even downloaded all the updates?
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: if you've done apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade, you're done.
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: if apt-get says there's nothing to upgrade, there's nothing to upgrade
<ixxvil> ooh shit
<BigRedS> though there's that new mail client that means we can stop with the 20-year-old bugs in Tbird and have some brand new ones to discover!
<ixxvil> i did apt-get upgrade
<BigRedS> Geany?
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: upgrade is fine too, except it won't install new kernels
<popey> or anything that has new dependancies
<ixxvil> so what do i do next?
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: (actually, "upgrade" won't change package states, I guess)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: it also wont remove packages where there's conflicts or obsolescence, and wont install new depends (and hence anything depending on them)
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: just run apt-get dist-upgrade
<ixxvil> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade?
<MartijnVdS> sure
<ixxvil> well this thing is stuck
<ixxvil> after i did a apt-get upgrade
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: please paste what you see in your terminal on pastebin
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<ixxvil> 69 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: even if you dist-upgradE?
<dwatkins> haha, I thought my Pebble watch was broken because it didn't turn on when I charged it - turned out I'd just powered it down.
<ixxvil> so i did a apt-get dist-upgrade
<ixxvil> and its reading through changelogs
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: Please, paste everything from what you typed (apt-get dist-upgrade) until you got the prompt again on pastebin, so we can help you better
<TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: Nope still broken. Yellow triangle against every calendar and only some old cached events displaying :-(
<ixxvil> im not getting a prompt
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: then just everything from what you typed down to the bottom of the terminal
<ixxvil> is it sudo apt-get disto-upgrade/
<ixxvil> sorry dist*
<ixxvil> cause that thing is just frezing up the temrinal
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: it's not
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: please paste the output?
<ixxvil> then?
<ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39656
<MartijnVdS> ah.. you've installed something that shows the changelogs?
<ixxvil> thats what ive been telling
<MartijnVdS> you might have to press 'q' to quit the pager
<MartijnVdS> Don't do that then ;)
<ixxvil> ihit ctrl c
<ixxvil> and i get a prompt
<ixxvil> but its frozen
<ixxvil> i cant see anything i type
<ixxvil> but bash seems to execute stuff, just not visible
<dwatkins> did you reset the shell, or clear the screen?
<ixxvil> if i can see it, yeah
<ixxvil> i dont
<ixxvil> but i just typed exit and it logged me ioff
<ixxvil> and guess what apt-get dist-upgrade hasnt really installed those packages i guess
<ixxvil> cause im still seeing 71 packages can be updated.
<ixxvil> 35 updates are security updates.
<ixxvil> i dont recall the update part being so paranoid and complicated
<ixxvil> any idea why it goes into changelogs?
<dwatkins> it shouldn't be
<dwatkins> I assume you did an apt-get update first
<ixxvil> yea i did
<ixxvil> well apt-get upgrade
<dwatkins> what shell are you using?
<dwatkins> no, update
<dwatkins> make sure you have the latest list of available packages before updating
<ixxvil> but im saying i did anapt-get  upgrade
<dwatkins> *upgrading
<dwatkins> make sure you have the latest list of available packages before upgrading, and then dist-upgrading
<ixxvil> im lost
<dwatkins> do this: apt-get update
<ixxvil> yeah
<ixxvil> dist-upgrade?
<dwatkins> what shell are you using?
<ixxvil> bash
<dwatkins> ok, log out and back in again, to make sure it's cleared any control characters etc.
<dwatkins> then do "reset" to clear the terminal
<ixxvil> ok
<dwatkins> now: apt-get update
<dwatkins> oops sorry
<dwatkins> apt-get upgrade
<ixxvil> that same shit again
<ixxvil> it goes into Reading changelogs......
<dwatkins> what you pasted earlier?
<ixxvil> 100% done
<ixxvil> ye
<dwatkins> perhaps it's just taking a while?
<ixxvil> it read it at 100% so it must be done
<dwatkins> what exactly are the symptoms?
<ixxvil> i dont kno
<dwatkins> i.e. does your prompt stop existing?
<ixxvil> its not showing a rpompt
<dwatkins> what do you see, can you pastebin the terminal display?
<dwatkins> so perhaps it's not actually finished yet
<ixxvil> its in changelogs
<popey> pastebin
<popey> so we can see
<ixxvil> i pasted this 5 mins ago
<dwatkins> sorry, I don't know what that means 'in changelogs'
<ixxvil> it's the same thing
<popey> press q
<ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39656
<popey> to quit the changelog display
<ixxvil> oo
<popey> you're looking at the output from apt-changelog
<ixxvil> it continued now after hitting q
<ixxvil> yeah but i didnt want to
<popey> 10:37:25 < MartijnVdS> you might have to press 'q' to quit the pager
<ixxvil> this thing did it automatically
<popey> we dont ship apt-changelog by default, you may have installed it yourself
<ixxvil> ok
<ixxvil> looks like it's done
<ixxvil> is there anything else i should do now?
<popey> was that you doing a dist-upgrade or upgrade?
<ixxvil> that was for apt-get upgrade
<popey> you should apt-get dist-upgrade
<ixxvil> like now?
<popey> as good a time as any
<ixxvil> so what was the point of apt-get udate
<dwatkins> that was going to be my next suggestion, thought we'd start with just upgrading existing packages
<ixxvil> followed by apt-get upgrade?
<dwatkins> update downloads the list of available packages, it doesn't actually install anything
<ixxvil> ok
<popey> upgrade installs new versions of packages you already have
<popey> dist-upgrade will do the same, but may pull in new stuff too
<popey> not just existing packages
<popey> always dist-upgrade basically
<ixxvil> what actually installs the new updates
<popey> see above
<ixxvil> apt-get dist-upgrade?
<popey> 10:51:51 < popey> upgrade installs new versions of packages you already have
<popey> 10:51:59 < popey> dist-upgrade will do the same, but may pull in new stuff too
<ixxvil> so why is it i cant just do dist-upgrade now?
<ixxvil> whats the need for apt-get dist-upgrade?
<popey> exactly my point
<popey> do dist-upgrade, not upgrade
<ixxvil> so i dont need to use apt-get now rght? just hit dist-upgrade?
<dwatkins> I suggested 'upgrade' to keep it simple, in case there was a problem with 'dist-upgrade' to rule that out
<dwatkins> in general, do 'dist-upgrade'
<popey> just use dist-upgrade, don't do upgrade
<ixxvil> dist-upgrade command not found
<popey> 10:50:33 < popey> you should apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> those are the two to remember
<ixxvil> alright
<ixxvil> for grub should i keep the local version or go with the package maintainer?
<davmor2> Morningall
<ixxvil> i mean as i understand it grub is that bootloader stuff right?
<ixxvil> im not running multiple OS's here or anything, its all just via terminal
<ixxvil> so i can keep the local version i guess, makes no difference?
<popey> i would take new version unless you specifically modified it
<popey> or use the diff option to see the difference
<popey> and then make an educated decision
<ixxvil> the new version being the pk maintainer's version?
<popey> yes
<ixxvil> and wth the grub thing updated im back to prompt
<ixxvil> guess it's all done?
<popey> sounds like it
<ixxvil> so next time i jsut do an apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> no
<popey> 10:57:35 < popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> 10:57:38 < popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> 10:57:43 < popey> those are the two to remember
<ixxvil> right right update
<ixxvil> and then that
<ixxvil> it asked me to restart
<ixxvil> i rebooted and i guess i cant login to ssh now, werid
<dwatkins> you guess or you can't?
<dwatkins> what are the symptoms, or does ssh -vvv user@host show anything useful?
<ixxvil> i can login via my webconsole
<ixxvil> via putty, nothing
<dwatkins> can or cannot?
<ixxvil> thought ufw was active but it's disable
<ixxvil> cannot
<dwatkins> can you ping the machine?
<ixxvil> through the webconsole i can, everything else is up, just wont let me ssh via putty
<ixxvil> yep
<ixxvil> as i thought, iptables kicked in when i restarted/rebooted
<ixxvil> thanks  MartijnVdS dwatkins popey
<ixxvil> just one last thing, restarting a server vs reboot isnt the same thing is it?
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: how did you restart it?
<ixxvil> reboot
<MartijnVdS> if you type "reboot" it's the same as "shutdown -r now", but not the same as pulling the plug and then putting it back in
<ixxvil> ok
<MartijnVdS> you might want to install "molly-guard", so it'll ask to make sure which machine you want to reboot
<ixxvil> its just one machine
<MartijnVdS> (so you don't accidentally reboot the wrong machine if you have more)
<ixxvil> right
<ixxvil> its just me and just this machine
<ixxvil> but thanks, noted
<ixxvil> MartijnVdS: btw isnt it always :wq and not just :q?
<MartijnVdS> :wq is two commands: write and quit
<MartijnVdS> :q is just one: quit
<MartijnVdS> (so it doesn't write)
 * mungbean is a ZZ man
<ixxvil> so :q is an editor thing?
<ixxvil> or :wq
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: it's a vi thing
<ixxvil> ah
<ixxvil> so by default mutt uses vi?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I know some :x people 8-)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Weirdos!
<arc__> hello
<ixxvil> cause i use mutt now and then and its always a :wq
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: by default it uses the EDITOR environment variable, or the command "editor" (or "visual"?) if that's not available
<MartijnVdS> ixxvil: you can use your favourite editor if you like
<MartijnVdS> by:
<ixxvil> ye now that i know about it
<MartijnVdS> - setting EDITOR=nano in your bashrc
<ixxvil> but ive gotten used to whatever is set in mutt
<MartijnVdS> - sudo update-alternatives --config editor
<ixxvil> for other things i use nano
<shauno> I didn't notice they'd started using 'editor' instead of 'sensible-editor'
<MartijnVdS> shauno: oh they might use that, I don't lknow
<ixxvil> oh man last i messed aorund with bashrc
<ixxvil> was to set up EPIC
<shauno> I think you're right, I have both, editor points to nano and sensible-editor points to vim.  explains why I keep getting nano when I least expect it
<ixxvil> older versions of EPIC 4.0 and below had to be toyed around with in bashrc if i remember
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I think sensible-editor is a wrapper that checks $EDITOR
<MartijnVdS> oh wow, it's even smarter
<MartijnVdS> it checks VISUAL, then ~/.selected-editor, then $EDITOR
<MartijnVdS> and runs the first that exists, or nano, if that doesn't exist, nano-tiny
<shauno> it is surprisingly sensible ;)
<arc__> hello when i boot ubuntu 13.04 from usb my screen keeps on flashing and i can't move my mouse
<arc__> can anyone point me the right way to a website or the resources to help me
<MartijnVdS> arc__: how is it flashing?
<MartijnVdS> fast? slow? all at once? bits?
<mungbean> has it fully booted to the login screen?
<arc__> it flashes then after 1-2 secs it flashes again and my pointer keeps on moving back to the middle
<arc__> it try but sometimes i cant even do ctr+alt+f1
<mungbean> take a video of it on your phone maybe?
<mungbean> easier to demonstrate that way
<arc__> kk
<arc__> i will take a vid later and ask again my phone is dead (needs some charge+love)
<popey> â»  http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/30/dell-laptop-cat-pee-urine-smell-latitude-e6430u
<mungbean> asked my MP if he's going to the surveillance debate tomorrow. no reply
<mungbean> lol popey
<mungbean> worst possible PR
<mungbean> the old ones will be appearing in schools soon, sold at full price
<SuperMatty> mungbean: when did you ask?
<mungbean> today
<SuperMatty> I asked my mp about stuff via email, and only go a reply via letter
<mungbean> on twitter,
<mungbean> hoping to get a informal response
<penguin42> SuperMatty: Yeh I've had that before
<SuperMatty> mungbean: fair enough
<SuperMatty> tbh though, I'm sure politicians get a lot of questions and I'm sure they *should* be busy right now anyway
<mungbean> my one doesn't get many via twitter and usually answers
<SuperMatty> who here has read the sandman comics?
<SuperMatt> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1450270_10153372637405464_978697425_n.jpg my latest comic book haul includes these beauties
<qqs> Hello
<popey> hi
<mungbean> been looking at pass rates for schools in greater london. not good
<mungbean> most schools around 50-60% of kids getting 5 A-C grades at gcse
<SuperMatt> yeesh
<mungbean> my school was 100%
<mungbean> but its become rather difficult to get in there nowadays
<popey> 67% at our kids place
<mungbean> so i'm concerned about my kids chances of getting in a semi decent school
<mungbean> the "bit rubbish" school my mrs went to in guildford got 75%
<dwatkins> don't they tend to make the tests harder if a high percentage of kids pass?
<SuperMatt> :/
<arsen> if i had kids, i'd probably consider moving out of london unless i was able to get them into the really good schools :/
<popey> 89% in 2009,
<mungbean> popey: wow
<popey> not sure i trust these figures
<davmor2> mungbean: my school was knocked down and turned into a housing estate how hard is that to get into :D
<mungbean> lots of my mates in the early 90s got < 5 gcses
<popey> this year, 44 candidates, 19% A*, 52.2 A*-A
<mungbean> low no. of candiadtes hence the variation
<popey> yeah
<popey> its girls-only at GCSE
<mungbean> shame that my school is considered one of best state schools in country but allow anyone from outside the borough to enter
<popey> all the boys have to go to a different school
<mungbean> school should serve the local area
<zleap> even so called outstanding schools have problems
<mungbean> outstanding ofsted != outstanding
<zleap> not academic, it could be with things like bullying, which can go as far as physical assaults,  but its branded bullying so the schools don't have to deal with it
<mungbean> my child is only 3 and i'm thinking about secondary schools :(
<mungbean> didn't realise how much all the other ones sucked
<popey> some think about it before they're born
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just checked my son's secondary: %A*-C, 80.83.  %A* or A 40.
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: But in what subjects? Do they just force everyone to take something dumb that they'll get a good score in
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - It's an Academy and the "major" in maths and sciences.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\the\they
<mungbean> i like the sound of that
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Well done to our year 11s once again on their wonderful GCSE results. 40% A*- A and 84% A* to C including English and Maths."
<mungbean> our next best school majors in music and sport
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.weydonschool.surrey.sch.uk
<mungbean> = celebrity worship
<mungbean> surrey generally has decent schools
<mungbean> and kent too i believe
<penguin42> mungbean: I could point out that you've got another 2 or 3 parliaments before then and they can completely screw up any current schools in that time
 * awilkins went to public school on the cheap because his dad taught at one
<SuperMatt> looks like my year got 97% 5 A-C grades
<awilkins> I got 4xA, 3xB, 1xC, 1xD (because I was a slacker about coursework, mostly)
<awilkins> But that was when GCSEs had no A* and were only in their second year, hadn't been diluted too much from O-levels the way they are now
<dwatkins> I got a 7.3 average in my bac, we didn't do exams in the 5th year.
<awilkins> I saw the maths papers for 3 years after my intake and laughed myself silly
<dwatkins> They started doing them just afterwards, so people could go to a different school (which required exam results) for the sixth form.
<awilkins> Our maths paper, question 3 : There is a goat tehtered to a square post in a triangular field with a rope X long, calculate the area of field the goat can eat.
<awilkins> Three years later : Get out your calculator and work this sum out. These are the buttons to push. (literally, yes, that was the question)
<SuperMatt> I slacked on my coursework too
<dwatkins> That's insane - we weren't allowed calculators in exams until the sixth form, and even then there were restrictions (no graphing ones).
<SuperMatt> I got Ds in IT and Performing arts. Guess who is a part of a dance troupe and works in IT?
<livingdaylight> Hi
<dwatkins> lo
<livingdaylight> i know its ubuntu channel, but i'm looking for a 27" monitor. Is 2560x1440 better or is that more for gaming? and can anyone recommend one that's around the Â£300 mark
<dwatkins> Mine was significantly reduced and was still over that much, unfortunately. You might get lucky on Amazon, livingdaylight.
<livingdaylight> there are a milliion monitors out there. It gets confusing. :/
<awilkins> I used to just have a rule - Buy Iiyama
<awilkins> But that has gone by the wayside
<dwatkins> I tend to use Dell monitors.
<awilkins> They were great CRTs but with the LCD panel revolution all the panels are made by three manufacturers or something anyway
<livingdaylight> Dell seem particularly pricey. I was hoping to get something that's as good but charge less coz they're not riding the label.
<awilkins> My tips now are : LED backlighting
<livingdaylight> I heard DGM have the Apple panels
<awilkins> Had a nice Visionmaster 22" that the cold-cathode tube failed on, replaced it with a 3D-ready model with LED
<awilkins> Viewsonic, not Visionmaster
<mungbean> my computer studies gcse was hilarious
<dwatkins> yes, Dell are expensive, but in my experience, they're the best.
<mungbean> got an A in learning about stuff used in the 60s
<mungbean> so you could say it was history of computing gcse
<mungbean> and i wrote an epic projec tin bbc basic
<livingdaylight> I had a 22" for the last few years but its time for an upgrade. Looking for a 27" now .Something that's underrated but as good as the more pricey ones. Like the DGM maybe. There are good monitors coming from Korea but then its risking additional import costs.
<awilkins> Yay for BBC BASIC
<dwatkins> awilkins: yay indeed, it's ace
<mungbean> i used teletext font as well
<mungbean> double height
<awilkins> Well, I think BBC BASIC would make my head explode now
<mungbean> best book/library software ever written
<dwatkins> MODE 7
<awilkins> I used to code in VB3 for a living at a time when VB6 was going out of support
<mungbean> C made my head explode. i thought basic was awesome then i discovered pointers and my brain cired
<mungbean> cried
<dwatkins> I've started learning C, picking up from the point I stopped programming about 20 years ago.
<mungbean> is VB anything like basic? i've never lookd at it
<mungbean> dwatkins: do you have a project?
<SuperMatt> python is my favourite right now
<awilkins> Visual Basic. Yes, it's like BASIC.
<SuperMatt> I wanted to love ruby, but she was quite ugly IMO
<dwatkins> mungbean: no, just reading Koenigen & Richie at the moment
<awilkins> VB.NET is almost, but not entirely, unlike VB6 though
<dwatkins> VB looks dead simple: http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC81032.gif
<awilkins> I refuse to learn VB.NET on the grounds that it will spoil my VB6 retirement package uberskills
<mungbean> i sold my copy of kernighan and ritchie
<dwatkins> mungbean: I got the Kindle version ;)
<awilkins> I have Knuth.
<awilkins> Knuth is Hard Work.
<dwatkins> Knuth, you say.
<mungbean> i learned a discplined form of C that never gives complile warnings
<dwatkins> impressive
<mungbean> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.42.7799&rep=rep1&type=pdf
<awilkins> It's very impressive. And thick. And very, very heavy going.
<awilkins> mungbean, I hate that coding style though
<mungbean> thats all i knew
<awilkins> braces-on-separate-lines is just wasteful of the precious vertical space
<mungbean> i only jsut learned that C had a goto
<awilkins> Especially with the widescreen monitor downgrade
<awilkins> VB has a goto
<awilkins> GOTO is actually useful
<awilkins> As long as you are disciplined
 * dwatkins puts Knuth, AKA TAOCP, on his reading list
<ixxvil> later
<dwatkins> hmm, 4 volumes for Â£135, is there a cheaper way to get it?
 * penguin42 only has one volume and has never read it
<dwatkins> Â£125, sorry: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Art-Computer-Programming-Volumes/dp/0321751043/
<dwatkins> I suspected that the first one might be as far as I'd ever get.
<mungbean> would have hoped for some latex version
<dwatkins> I hoped for a Kindle version, but I'm sure on the wilder internets I can find something digital.
<awilkins> Not of Knuth, I don't think
<awilkins> Well, maybe a hooky one
<awilkins> Even if you're coding in BASIC, pointers are useful to understand
<awilkins> Esp, in the OO basics when you start passing things by reference / value
<mungbean> foudn it for 397 indian rupees
<awilkins> Wow, 4 quid
<awilkins> Is that an eBook?
<mungbean> http://www.flipkart.com/art-computer-programming-fundamental-algorithms-volume-1-3/p/itmdyugtg8qg2znx
<awilkins> Aha, just volume 1
<mungbean> might not be rupees?
<mungbean> vol3 is 500rs
<awilkins> No idea
<awilkins> What the Rs. currency is
<mungbean> yes its rupees
<awilkins> COD
<awilkins> So presumably... they deliver to India?
<mungbean> s of now, Flipkart doesn't deliver items internationally.
<mungbean> You will be able to make your purchases on our site from anywhere in the world with credit/debit cards issued in India and 21 other countries, but please ensure the delivery address is in India.
<mungbean> i used to have a delhi office
<DJones> Hmmh, spam email coming from digg.com "Thank you for registering with us" or something like that, wouldn't mind, but never even been on the website, flags as spam
<dwatkins> probably has a link to some dodgy website that looks like a normal button
<DJones> YOu'd think so, all the clickable links appear to be valid digg.com ones
<DJones> "
<mungbean> more likely some chump has used the wrong email address
<mungbean> i got plane tickets sent to me t'other day
<DJones> "Thanks for signing up for Digg! We're happy to introduce The Daily Digg, today's top stories delivered to your inbox"
<mungbean> thanks for signing up to cat facts
<ali1234> DJones: did you sign up for digg years ago then forget? i got one of those recently
<DJones> ali1234: No, as far as I can remember, I've never been on the website, its not one that held any interest for me
<DJones> Saying that, its not even come to the email account I've used for registrations for the last 15 years, so if I had signed up, it would have been at least 15 years ago
<DJones> And after that length of time, my memory may have gotten a bit fuzzy
<ali1234> yeah same here. found it in my spam trap address
<ali1234> digg "relaunched" recently and sent that mail to all the existing subscribers
<shauno> aka "the digg branding was purchased recently, and the good news sent to the subscriber list that came with it"
<mungbean> i just received a misdirected email about MSBA Judcial Selection Committee Meeting 11-12-13 (J. Fredrickson)
<mungbean> THE REVIEW, DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS COMMUNICATION TO ANYONE OTHER THAN THE INTENDED ADDRESSEE IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED
<ali1234> shauno: precisely, yes
<ali1234> i signed up in 2006 apparently
<ali1234> i don't remember why, or ever actually visiting the site
<ali1234> but i still have the registration email
<mungbean> if you put that in the signature, isn;'t that pointless because the person would have already read the whole email
<shauno> the whole thing's useless.  contracts depend on 'consideration', you have to receive something for something.  you don't bind someone into a contract just by blurting terms
<mungbean> lawyers of all people should know that
<shauno> if I said "by reading my unsolicited statements on irc, you agree to X, consent to Y, and are forbidden from Z", you'd roll your eyes and thank the stars that nutjobs are thankfully rare around here
<shauno> if I stick it on the end of an email, people take it seriously?
<mungbean> especially if you then send it to the wrong person
<mungbean> what if i'm not a person but a bot
<mungbean> linked to a twitter feed
<mungbean> not my problem but theirs
<shauno> my MTA doesn't parse legalese, and would be quite happy to bounce it back to them if the mailbox isnt' matched.  is that distribution/copying to anyone other?
<mungbean> would be better not to parse signatures
<mungbean> some guy must have struggled gettin ghis flight the other day though
<mungbean> even though this office is really quiet, people are wering heaphones
<DJones> mungbean: At home, we've been getting a blokes personal pension paperwork for 10 years from Prudential, the person its addressed to has never to our knowledge lived at the address (Thats after speaking to neighbours that moved in when the houses were built)
<mungbean> i got that too. except it was in my name
<MartijnVdS> DJones: send them back with "DECEASED" written across the envelope
<MartijnVdS> DJones: that helps
<mungbean> but retirment age different
<mungbean> and was obviously a spreasheet cock up
<mungbean> called norwich union and they were v confused
<DJones> Over the 10 years, I've sent it back, not known at this address countless times, I've said he's dead, I've said he's in prison, still they keep sending it
<mungbean> because i had 1 real pension with them
<popey> we get mail for a guy who has shares in various companies
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Start combining.. "He's dead in prison."
<shauno> I keep getting bills for lawn care in Boston. I've given up replying to them
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I'm tempted to reply saying please cash out the pension and send a cheque to me
<mungbean> i had a guy from preston who thought my email address was his, everything was getting in my inbox, i got his mobile number from one of the emails and called him. although he shared my name, he was a twat
<mungbean> i said why are you doing this? he claimed he'd never done it and never had a virgin email account
<mungbean> they stopped soon after
<mungbean> i said "so you never bought this freezer from comet and this purchase here and this credit card"
<mungbean> he started claiming voodo
<DJones> Whenever I signup for websites, I use things like "asda@mydomain.com" or "tesco@mydomain.com" which all get filtered into a junk mail account, at least then if I get spam, I know who's sold my email address or been hacked
<bashrc> mailinator
<DJones> That'd be an option, but less convinient
<mungbean> and not very private
<mungbean> especially when buying from tesco
<bashrc> also I expect that some sites won't accept known temporary email addresses
<mungbean> there's a swedish mailinator i use
<mungbean> doesn't get flagged with many sites
<dwatkins> I tend to use the plus symbol, which gmail "ignores", e.g. myname+something@gmail.com - the +something is ignored, so the mail goes to myname@gmail.com
<mungbean> + syumbol breaks a lot of sites badly
<dwatkins> oh? most I've used it on treat it as a unique e-mail address
<dwatkins> there are also other benefits to this, as one can imagine
<mungbean> got bitten too many times by the address not getting stored properly
<mungbean> only to find latter part is stored and they mis the myname bit
<dwatkins> I asked for a password reset from a supplier's website the other day, got a mail back 5 minutes later from a person with my password in it in plain text *facepalm*
<MartijnVdS> some sites claim a "+" isn't allowed in an email address
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: that would stop people using this as a workaround if you're only supposed to have one trial per e-mail address
<dwatkins> 30-day trial, for example
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: all kinds of off-the-shelf web shop software doesn't like the +
<dwatkins> makes sense, I guess
<dwatkins> I mean to avoid trial-abuse as I mentioned
<dwatkins> ...although I'm not sure that was the intention, or if it's just an oversight
<mungbean> what are you supposed to do where you are in a cubicle and the cleaning lady knocks on teh main toilet door HELLLOOO CLEANING LADY
<shauno> I use a wildcard domain too.  it makes blacklisting much easier when an address 'escapes'
<popey> mungbean: "not now" is what I usually shout
<popey> technically it doesn't matter what you say
<mgdm> do it in a strained voice for comedy value
<popey> as soon as they hear a guys voice they're gonna leave
<popey> haha
<popey> GNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnnnot now!
<mgdm> :D
<MartijnVdS> "Ah, please come in"
<mungbean> i didn't know if it made a difference
<mungbean> i sit there in silence hoping nothing plops
<MartijnVdS> why?
<mungbean> and don't leave the cubicle until they have gone, even if i was about to
<mungbean> #britishproblems
<MartijnVdS> ah :)
<mungbean> i can't plop when other people are in the cubicle next to me either
<mungbean> unless its a sealed cubicle
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd say "do you have a can of air freshner with you? Only I've dropped a rather large one!"
<mungbean> floor to ceiling
<shauno> if it's the cleaning lady, surely pretending you're not there is .. counterproductive
<dwatkins> mungbean: reminds me of this scene from The IT Crowd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUDtVdvG99s
<mgdm> I was at a gig the other night and they had one of those blokes who hangs around and hands you paper towels etc
<mgdm> Why oh why does anyone ever think that is a good idea
<MartijnVdS> I've been to a place like that
<MartijnVdS> It was *creepy*
<mungbean> because 1 in 20 gives him a quid
<dwatkins> many nightclubs have them
<MartijnVdS> this was a restaurant
<TheOpenSourcerer> mungbean: You need the japanese loos that have user-selectable sounds to cover up embarrassing noises.
<mungbean> in a busy night club, probably 50 quid per hour
<dwatkins> I always wondered if they were part of the club, or if they just turned up
<mungbean> they are cringey
<dwatkins> a colleague of mine whistles all the time in there
<shauno> I prefer dead silence.  I used to have the office behind the jacks, I know how thin those walls are
<mungbean> nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggh aaaaah
<TheOpenSourcerer> I like the ones in europe where there's always an old women in the blokes loo "looking after it" ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or even better where there is a unisex loo.
<shauno> europe's weird.
 * dwatkins tries to forget toilets on certain european routes
<shauno> I don't know if the dutch are weird, or if it's just a'dam.  but they have "open-air stalls" dotted around the streets, which is a bit of a mindflip
<penguin42> shauno: We have some in Manchester that they put out during big events - particularly things like big football events
<shauno> those plastic ones?  not a fan of those either, to be honest
<MartijnVdS> shauno: the metal ones rock
<MartijnVdS> except for the stench
<MartijnVdS> they're twisted just far enough so you can't see inside :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.studiokoning.nl/Foto_22/Urinoir.html
<DJones> penguin42: They're called gutters aren't they?
<mungbean> our place has one unisex/multisex toilet
<MartijnVdS> We get temporary 4-user plastic ones as well.. those are a bit scary
<mungbean> so that people of indeterminate gender can feel comfortable going in there, ....and everybody else uncomfortable
<penguin42> shauno/DJones: These are quite large 6ft+ circular things divided into 4? units that they lift in by crane
<shauno> yeah, that's the ones.  they work, it just feels wrong
<mungbean> without checking google, guess how many people IBM employ
<MartijnVdS> http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/popup-toilets-temporary1.jpg ?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: multiple tens of thousands
<shauno> I'd start around 300k
<MartijnVdS> shauno: according to wikipedia, you're almost right
<mungbean> utterly astounding
<shauno> sweet :)  I just remember AT&T being somewhere close to there, twice our size.  and IBM seem like a similar behemoth
<MartijnVdS> shauno: do you mean one of those toilets, or one of these? http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Amsterdam-Public-Urinals.jpg
<shauno> MartijnVdS: like that last link; that's the temporary plastic ones I think penguin42 means
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh although ours are a depressing grey
<MartijnVdS> yeah they usually are here too
<MartijnVdS> just couldn't find those on google image search
<shauno> isn't everything grey up north?
<mungbean> i never knew that mikey from the gonnies was also sam gamgee in the LOTR
<dwatkins> shauno: please define "up north" (I live in Edinburgh, up north to me is Inverness)
<popey> north of southampton
<dwatkins> haha
<dwatkins> I used to say "north of the Watford gap", now it's "north of Aberdeen"
<shauno> I believe watford gap is the traditional yardstick for this one
<dwatkins> Well, it's pretty grey here, in fairness.
<mgdm> It used to be that north for me was above 58.2Â°N
<mgdm> now it's only about 55Â°N sadly
<shauno> last time I was in edinburgh, there was a pretty thick haar rolled in.  it was the very definition of grey.
<dwatkins> shauno: that's probably exactly what we have right now
<shauno> fog so thick I couldn't see the castle from princes street
<mgdm> that's not even that unusual :-)
<shauno> http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2333/2269438164_52593d6906_b.jpg
<dwatkins> yeah, I've noticed the draw-distance significantly reduced on many occasions
<mgdm> it's when someone's using the GPU for mining bitcoins
 * dwatkins wonders how much compute power Scotland has
<bashrc> probably a lot
<dwatkins> yeah, there's a lot of detail to render
<mgdm> I found out yesterday that in the intial drafts of the script for the Matrix, the humans were used for compute power rather than energy
<dwatkins> I'm sure that story has been written many times, though, mgdm.
<mgdm> they changed it because they thought people wouldn't understand; instead, you've got nerds going "It won't work" and "why do they have to be conscious?" etc
<bashrc> what OS did they run?
<mgdm> bashrc: MS-DOS.
<bashrc> :)
<shauno> reminds me of an article that was floating around here a few years back.  "[a local councilor] had told the Infrastructure Committee meeting this week that his native Connemara would be ideal for cloud computing because it has heavy cloud cover for nine months of the year."
<mgdm> hahahaha
<mgdm> that has to be fake :-)
<dwatkins> mgdm: I'm reminded of this: http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-08/gamers-outsmart-algorithms-solving-complex-biology-problem-study-says
<shauno> it was in the end, yeah.  but like all good hoaxes, far too believable
<mgdm> dwatkins: heh, nice
<dwatkins> shauno: http://devnull-as-a-service.com/
<mgdm> I wonder what we could do if we harnessed the combined compute power of Candy Crush players
<dwatkins> mgdm: perhaps they already are
<mgdm> or, in fact, maybe that's what it is
<mgdm> maybe that's how the NSA decrypt things :-)
<shauno> dwatkins: I saw that!  what's wrong with rfc863?
<dwatkins> shauno: haha
<mgdm> A UDP-based discard service
<mgdm> how would you know if it didn't work? :-)
<shauno> I'm pretty sure inetd implements it
<mgdm> yeah
<dwatkins> Alternatively, use RFC1149, you'll lose random packets.
<mungbean> does gimp have a global fill tool like the bucket one?
<mungbean> rather than local fill
<MartijnVdS> create new layer, do local fill on it, merge layers?
<mungbean> i've got a signature on a grey page
<mungbean> need to make the page white
<MartijnVdS> you can just do color substitution then
<shauno> not what you're asking, but I'd be tempted to just yank the contrast for that.  make the ink darker and the page whiter
<shauno> if you take the contrast to an extreme you should just end up with black on white
<mungbean> stuff it, i've got 10 mins before i have to leave
<mungbean> will do that ta
<Azelphur> wooooo, cleanfeed is screwing up my access to imgur again
<Azelphur> 30% loss inside talktalk
<Azelphur> :<
<BigRedS> ssh tunnels!
<Azelphur> indeed
<Myrtti> Azelphur: yeah noticed it again myself
<DJones> Azelphur: Its talktalkk, what do you expect, if you're getting better than 10% of what you're paying for thats a bonus, from a home use and now business use perspective, they've got to be the worst telecomms business in the UK
<Azelphur> yea, virgin had the same issue though
<Azelphur> when I get round to it I'm gonna switch to an entanet reseller.
<ali1234> switch to demon
<ali1234> they don't seem to have any employees at all any more
<ali1234> they don't block anything
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> ali1234: thing is they won't do my kind of bandwidth, they have not friendly FUP :(
<ali1234> nobody does
<Azelphur> enta have no fup and ipv6 \o/
 * DJones wonders how much it costs to spend a couple of nights in Maastricht
<DJones> Specially when Andre Rieu is performing
<Myrtti> AlanBell: https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/395557470858272769/photo/1
<Myrtti> (probably already seen it, but oh well)
<popey> https://github.com/YaroslavGaponov/node-jvm#! *boggle*
<ali1234> how am i supposd to debug software which heavily uses dbus and gobject?
<DivaDaddy> CHANNEL means: to invoke the style or characteristics of another person
<ali1234> !info libdbusmenu raring
<lubotu3> Package libdbusmenu does not exist in raring
<ali1234> !info libdbusmenu-glib4
<lubotu3> libdbusmenu-glib4 (source: libdbusmenu): library for passing menus over DBus. In component main, is optional. Version 12.10.2-0ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 46 kB, installed size 205 kB
<jgjones> Greetings
<popey> yo
<mgdm> Good evening
<jgjones> Just a quick question...
<jgjones> I'm wondering if you can run a command via rsync?
<mgdm> as in, kick off something on the remote server? I'd guess not
<mgdm> if you're using ssh as a transport, though, you have sssh anyway, so...
<jgjones> I have a server. As i understand it, I can do something like rsync username@serverip:`'command'` or have I got that wrong?
<jgjones> well the server haven't got a ssh daemon running :S
<jgjones> so was wondering if there was a way to send a reverse ssh command via rsync. Sound daft as that's not what rsync is for but having seen someone do a command via rsync like above hence the question.
<mgdm> pass
<penguin42> I'm not aware of rsync being able to do that
<jgjones> ok - what's the rsync -e for then?
<penguin42> jgjones: I think that's to choose whether it uses rsh or ssh to actually do the connetion but I may be wrong
<shauno> the '`thing`' doesn't seem to be intentional. it's coming back with some pretty weird results here.  like it's trying to use the output of the command as a file list
<shauno> it seems to make sense when used with, eg, find as the remote command.  but for anything more, I'd probably want to use rsync to push a script over, and then this '` trick to run it in-situ
<shauno> not actually sure if it'll run over the rsync:// transport though.  there's a good chance it's a side effect of using ssh as the transport
<jgjones> Hmm I figured. Oh well guess it's time to arrange a trip back to the server sometime when I get the chance!
<jgjones> Thanks anyway everyone.
<shauno> out of academic interest, the best way to defeat that (not allow rsync to run remote commands) is set the user's login shell to rssh (from the package named the same).  that'll give them a restricted shell that allowed scp, sftp, csv, rsync etc but nothing else
<ali1234> i was trying to do something like this the other day
<ali1234> i missed the question though
<shauno> it's a weird one. it feels like it shouldn't be allowed, but it looks pretty powerful to run 'find' on the remote machine, and use the output as the list of files to be synced
<ali1234> yeah that's kinda what i wanted to do
<ali1234> i wanted to make two local copies of a remote directory, without copying the files twice
<ali1234> so my initial idea was run find remotely, then cat each file with ssh to tee filea > fileb
<ali1234> but that didn't work too well so in the end i tarred the directory to ssh pipe, then split the pipe with tee to two local untar commands
<popey> http://neo900.org/news-0001-fundraising-campain-has-started
<popey> ooh
<ali1234> 25,000 - that's pretty cheap
<ali1234> do you reckon it's legit?
 * popey shrugs
<popey> getting mixed reaction from people who do and people who dont like n900/maemo
<ali1234> ah i see the name DocScrutinizer attached to it
<ali1234> he's pretty well respected, so probably legit
<ali1234> well, you don't have to run maemo on it
<ali1234> http://maemo.org/profile/view/joerg_rw/
<ali1234> his project, apparently
<diddledan> they've already collected a whopping 80â¬
<AlanBell> â¬25k is for 2 rounds of prototypes, 15 handsets in total
<AlanBell> which seems cheap, but plausible depending on what is done already
<AlanBell> Motherboard (PCB) upgrade that fits into N900 case (and reuses the existing Display, Battery, Antennas and some other components)
<AlanBell> plausible then
<directhex> AlanBell, but the display on the n900 is crap, and the batteries are all worn out
<AlanBell> yeah, but if fixing it is out of scope then the budget is plausible
<penguin42> popey: As I said on G+ - crap processor
<penguin42> popey: I mean sure I've got a phone with a CPU that crap, but I bought a cheapo phone
<penguin42> 3 years ago
<popey> its certainly an odd idea
<popey> i know the openmoko had a hardware upgrade
<penguin42> actually my phone is more crap, but my point still stands - it's not much faster than the n900
#ubuntu-uk 2013-10-31
<Azelphur> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1pk8y7/cisco_has_licensed_h264_and_is_making_it_freely/
<Azelphur> woo :)
<ali1234> i don't see how that is possible
<ali1234> unless they paid a massive amount of money to every patent holder
 * Azelphur shrugs
<penguin42> ali1234: $6.5M total I think
<ali1234> yeah that's not nearly enough
<ali1234> so you don't have to pay a royalty if you use cisco's binary
<penguin42> ali1234: the patents for this type of thing go through clearing orgs for the patents in question and I think there was some upper bound
<ali1234> but you still can't make your own
<flow_> connect irc.quakenet
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Martijn , i have a quick question
<knightwise> wondering if you can help me
<MartijnVdS> I'll try ;)
<knightwise> I installed LMDE on my system and have just inserted a brand new usb disk
<knightwise> formatted it to ext4
<knightwise> and now when I try to write something to it it says read only ?
<MartijnVdS> ext4 drives tend to be owned by root
<MartijnVdS> you can chown the mount point (After mounting) or set the default user using tune2fs
<knightwise> ah thats it
<knightwise> so if I mount it in a folder in my home drive it will be ok ?
<MartijnVdS> no, the mount will change the permissions/ownership of the mount point usually
<knightwise> or would it be better to just format it ext3 ?
<MartijnVdS> that'll have the same issue :)
<knightwise> ok , so i'll just mount it in a folder.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: just mount it, then chown the mount point to the correct user
<MartijnVdS> that will be persistent across mounts
<MartijnVdS> http://superuser.com/questions/519824/mounting-ext4-drive-with-specified-user-permission
<knightwise> so i'm punching in chown knightwise (and then whats my group ?
<MartijnVdS> whatever you want
<knightwise> can i leave it blank ?
<MartijnVdS> check your ~ if you don't have a clue
<knightwise> ?
<knightwise> sorry what ?
<MartijnVdS> ls -ld ~ (your home dir)
<MartijnVdS> should give you an idea of which group to choose
<knightwise> my home dir is /home/knightwie
<MartijnVdS> it's also "~" ;)
<knightwise> i did the chmod , now when I do an ls-alh it says knightwise in the first column , but root in  the second
<knightwise> so the second column is the group
<knightwise> bingo
<knightwise> got it
<knightwise> lets see if it works
<knightwise> BINGO !Ã§ :-)
<knightwise> THanx MartijnVdS :)
<knightwise> Ha
<knightwise> thats odd
<knightwise> when I create a file from the command line, no problemÃ¹
<knightwise> when I try to copy over a file from a different disk it says "read only"
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: how do you copy it?
<MartijnVdS> to get the "read only"
<knightwise> from one finder window to the other
<MartijnVdS> Finder?
<knightwise> sorry , nautilus
<knightwise> some of the files are on a second usb disk , others on an sftp server
<dvrr> hiiiiiii  good morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: weird, maybe it cached the read-onlyness from earlier?
<knightwise> not sure ,
<knightwise> I even did a chmod -R 777 on the folder to be sure
<knightwise> doing a reformat at starting over to be sure
<knightwise> trying this again.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: that should not be necessary
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: is there anything about read-only-ness in the kernel log?
<knightwise> erm how do i see that ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: dmesg, or check /var/log/kern.log :)
<knightwise> Oct 31 07:57:25 stargazer kernel: [  990.550874] EXT4-fs (sdf1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null)
<MartijnVdS> sounds good
<knightwise> in the kern log there doesnt seem to be an issue
<MartijnVdS> and you can write to it as root, right?
<knightwise> says it "mounted the filesystem" a
<MartijnVdS> and you can chown knightwise:knightwise the mountpoint?
<knightwise> write cache enabled
<knightwise> yes
<MartijnVdS> then it's not mounted read-only :)
<knightwise> and when i create file using the command line it works
<knightwise> but when i copy over a file from a different disk .. it doesnt
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: if you've done: mount /dev/whatever /home/knightwise/some_dir; chown knightwise:knightwise some_dir", it should Just Work
<MartijnVdS> if it doesn't, mount it in /mnt/scratch_disk (or whatever name you want, create the dir first)
<MartijnVdS> then "mkdir /mnt/scratch_disk/knightwise_stuff"
<MartijnVdS> chown knightwise:knightwise /mnt/scratch_disk/knightwise_stuff
<MartijnVdS> then ln -s /mnt/scratch_disk/knightwise_stuff ~/mounted_disk
<MartijnVdS> it'll be in a subdir, but it'll work :)
<knightwise> ok , i started from scratch
<knightwise> the disk is now mounted in /media
<knightwise> (as linux does so by default)
<MartijnVdS> that's the automounter
<knightwise> owner group = Root
<knightwise> i'm gonna change the label of the disk for a sec
<MartijnVdS> did you re-format? because that's expected in that case
<knightwise> yes
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> she is mounted in /media
<knightwise> mkdir /media/BAY2/media
<knightwise> ok ,
<knightwise> i better do this in a command line window
<knightwise> not in irc :^) *dumb*
<knightwise> ok
<gordonjcp> knightwise: yeah, that helps
<knightwise> i did a chmod of the bay2 disk in /media/b
<knightwise> and i'm now the owner and stiff
<knightwise> stuff
<gordonjcp> knightwise: good job you didn't do "sudo" and put your password in here
<knightwise> but still .. read only :)-
<knightwise> gordonjcp: that would have been very stupid
<gordonjcp> knightwise: is it mounted read-only?
<knightwise> gordonjcp: how do i see that
<gordonjcp> type "mount"
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings
<knightwise> /dev/sdf1 on /media/BAY2 type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_xattr,barrier=1,data=ordered,uhelper=udisks)
<knightwise> should work .. right ?
<gordonjcp> knightwise: okay, so it's rw, you're the owner of the directory and the directory is rw?
<knightwise> ah
<knightwise> drwxr-xr-x  4 knightwise knightwise 4.0K Oct 31 09:05 BAY2
<MartijnVdS> so: yes
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/A_Quick_Introduction_to_Unix/Permissions :P
<knightwise> and when I go in from the command line .. it works
<knightwise> i can create a file / folder
<knightwise> but not from nautilus
<knightwise> it only makes sense if its a bug
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool - just got my custom url on G+ https://plus.google.com/+AlanLord
<knightwise> this has to be a bug
<MartijnVdS> I got a note 2 days ago (I guess?) that I could choose one
<knightwise> i'm gonna try again with ext3
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: ext3 won't fix it
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: the note2 is a great phone
<knightwise> i have one too :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: No I mean, a notification from google that I could make an URL like that for my G+ :)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: but its soo funny . I works in the command line but it doesnt work from the file explorer.
<knightwise> aha ! :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: create a subdir owned by you:you, try that
<knightwise> man i'm not awake this morning
<knightwise> Did that too
<MartijnVdS> also, try in a non-root shell :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: can you do ls -lR /media/your_device_name, strip out the filenames you think we should not know, and put it on pastebin?
<knightwise> ok,
<knightwise> ps :is it normal that a format to ext3 takes forever and a format to ext4 is done in a jiffy ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> ext4 only allocates some necessary bits, and writes the rest as needed ("lazy")
<MartijnVdS> popey: Latest rumour is that the N5 will be released tomorrow, 15:00 (8am US/Pacific)
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> popey: *this* afternoon, even
<Myrtti> wheeee Benedict and Jonny Lee tonight â¥
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS
<knightwise> i tried what you suggested
<MartijnVdS> hey, knightwise  :)
<knightwise> and its the same thing
<knightwise> so weird
<knightwise> works fine from the command line
<knightwise> doesnt work from the finder
<knightwise> i mean the file explorere
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: are you sure you're using the correct target in that?
<knightwise> yes
<MartijnVdS> how?
<knightwise> holdon , i'll "drill down" in the file manager
<knightwise> i won't use the "devices" section but navigate to the media section
<knightwise> same thing
<MartijnVdS> so it's mounted in /media
<MartijnVdS> can you ls -ld /media ?
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> ls -ld /media/your_device_here
<knightwise> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Oct 31 09:32 /media/
<knightwise> drwxrwxrwx 4 knightwise knightwise 4096 Oct 31 09:33 /media/BAY2/
<knightwise> i just did a chmod -R 777 to try that out
<knightwise> and still the same error when you use the file explorer
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: that's a bug
<knightwise> bingo , i thought so
<knightwise> I can work around that , i'll just use 12.04 lts instead of LMDE
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: if you do "mkdir /media/BAY2/whatever", check its ownership (knightwise:knightwise, 0755 (drwxr-xr-x)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: can you write in the "whatever" subdir?
<knightwise> not from the file explorer
<knightwise> i can from the command line
<Myrtti> transmission has a command line version too, btw
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: can you do "id" from the command line?
<Myrtti> and a webinterface
<knightwise> uid=1000(knightwise) gid=1000(knightwise) groups=1000(knightwise),4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),113(lpadmin),120(sambashare)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: have you tried killing and restarting the file manager?
<MartijnVdS> maybe it cached something wrong
<knightwise> holdon
<knightwise> i'm gonna reboot for a sec
<ali1234> have you double mounted the mount point or something?
<MartijnVdS> reboot won't fix it
<Myrtti> http://ntlive.nationaltheatre.org.uk/productions/16546-frankenstein â¥ â¥ â¥
<MartijnVdS> theatre--
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: that fixed it !
<knightwise> a simple reboot
<knightwise> seems that the file manager does cache things
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: bubububu Jonny Lee and Benedict...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Samhain! :-D
<mungbean> bit of an embarrasing bug in office 365
<mungbean> i forwarded a meeting invite to somebody with a few sarcastic comments.
<mungbean> guess what 0365 did? it created a nwe meeting and invited everybody to it, with those comments
<MartijnVdS> haha.. OOPS
<mungbean> and i couldn't cancel it
<mungbean> happy reformation day!
 * SuperMatt reforms as a pile of gloop on the floor
<mungbean> MP did not respond, i guess he is not going to the surveillance debate
<mungbean> do they publish attendance lists ?
<mungbean> i guess not
<JamesTait> mungbean, I'd be surprised if you couldn't at least find out if your MP attended, say via ORG.
<JamesTait> In related news: http://goo.gl/VNz11a (Washington Post article on NSA wiretapping Google, Yahoo!)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<AlanBell> mungbean: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ voting records mostly, I think you can wander in and out of the chamber without being recorded
<AlanBell> unless they say anything, that gets recorded too
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/+AlanBell TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now all we need is https://plus.google.com/+LibertusSolutions
<popey> you dont need the plus btw
<popey> http://google.com/+AlanPope
<mungbean> i thought we had these things ages ago
<popey> no, we have things like http://popey.com/+ ages ago
<penguin42> note they had a comment on the T&C that they might decide to start charging for it in future
<AlanBell> no it was always long numbers for profile names
<penguin42> so it's a better-grab-it-now vs they'll probably charge when everyone uses it
<AlanBell> can't see how to make it happen for a page
<mungbean> why would they charge for it? they want g+ to be an indetity service, rahter than social network
<penguin42> mungbean: It was in the T&C when you confirm it
<AlanBell> It wouldn't surprise me if they charged for pages
<mungbean> that would be counter productive
<mungbean> they want identities
<AlanBell> yeah, for people
<AlanBell> and they want to make money out of companies
<Myrtti_> I'm trying to claim +Myrtti
<mungbean> ah, pages=companies?
<bashrc> how are they going to get identities?
<AlanBell> mungbean: yeah
<arsen> how do you claim the +Name's ?:o
<Myrtti_> mungbean: pages can be anything
<mungbean> g+ offered me MyName
<AlanBell> and other things, but companies can't be people (in theory)
<AlanBell> so if you want a corporate presence on G+ then you make a page for it
<arsen> never know what to do with G+, i've no real need to use/login/do anything on it when i've got facefail and twatter already :(
<arsen> the world needs less social networking, it's hard to keep up!
<MartijnVdS> Lots of Ubuntu people are on there
<MartijnVdS> and photo people
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like this one: https://plus.google.com/b/117044437831175918422/117044437831175918422/about
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: is that people? :)
<AlanBell> facebook has too many family members on it, twitter is too short and restrictive for a proper conversation
<mungbean> they don't really care if you use it for social networks
<mungbean> or they would make it better for that
<arsen> that's true - i can see there's a gap for special interest/professional social networking, as linkedin is just an AdFest
<mungbean> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2011/08/29/googles-eric-schmidt-says-plus-is-an-identity-service-not-a-social-network/
<mungbean> its more of a means for google to collect better quality info about you and to tie it to a real person
<mungbean> all google searches, gmail, youtube searches etc ,etc
<arsen> i find myself in the neverending circle of trying to organise my techy life, whether it be getting all my photos onlnie, and keeping junk ones from amateur 'good' photos, to making sure all my files/contacts/emails/images are sycned to all devices
<mungbean> arsen: do you have kids?
<arsen> no xD
<mungbean> when you do...
<arsen> yeah i can imagine.
<mungbean> you'll have a pile of bills and letters unopended on the stairs, and a mould  patch on the bathroom wall and a leaking tap
<mungbean> and you won't care about you techie life
<arsen> can't help but think life would be esaier if i'd of just gone for android on my phone, and never bothered with an ipad, and never gotten comfortable with OSX as a sysadmin, and ignored facebook.
<popey> i have a fairly clear split on facebook, only family
<mungbean> i was up between 1-3.30am with teething crying baby
<arsen> yeah, it'd just be nice if it was all tidy and in the right place. no one company seems to offer the full 360degree solution with everything synced and harmonised :)
<bashrc> I ignore Facebook anyway
<mungbean> none of my facebook friends understand techie stuff
<mungbean> so i keep it that way
<arsen> makes sense, i tend to keep techy chat to irc, or maybe twitter.
<mungbean> i delete any tweets older than 14 days
<AlanBell> interesting, why and how do you do that mungbean?
<mungbean> i'm not a heavy tweeter , but i consider its usefulness only transient
<mungbean> much like reddit, before i quit i realised for all the stuff on the site, most of it is old news,
<AlanBell> so do you manually go back through your profile and press delete on things?
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> i do it on facebook too, but not so strictly
<mungbean> i think i have a hatred of yesterdays news
<bashrc> that sounds time consuming
<arsen> heh reddit - i think i've managed to successfully avoid reddit in my entire technical life
<popey> haha
<mungbean>  most comments are just fluff and fleeting
<popey> you're the second guy I know who deletes old tweets
<popey> it's an exceptionally odd thing to do
<popey> IMHO
<mungbean> you're welcome :D
<bashrc> it's odd in the sense that they're probably aren't really deleted
<mungbean> who's the other?
<arsen> i started to adopt the "i dont care" policy about censoring my online profile and hiding stupid drunk comments
<popey> a guy in my local lug who argues with celebs on twitter
<popey> then auto deletes his tweets
<mungbean> i don't do that ;P
<mungbean> that sounds more like trolling and regret
<arsen> sounds fun.
<mungbean> i used to sometimes write a big long reddit comment and then delete it 1hr/1day later
<mungbean> some people write massive blog posts they never publish
<arsen> save yourself the hassle and do like me.. put reddit and G+ in the big basket of unwanted internet content.
<mungbean> or journals nobody reads
<mungbean> if your stuff is public you want a more noble history than "going for a poo now"
<mungbean> if you became high profile like ed snowden and the press raked over your stuff, the last tweet you sent was some lame comment
<popey> people dont actually do that though
<Myrtti> it would be absolutely super if Tinternet would work proper
<Myrtti> gah.
<popey> thats the same argument people gave for not using twitter
<popey> "It's just people talking about their food"
<mungbean> and sports
<AlanBell> there are various people arguing for a right to be forgotten online
<popey> which maybe true for some, just don't follow those people
<popey> simple
<bashrc> I forgot about the right to be forgotten
<AlanBell> and people who don't much like the existence of irclogs.ubuntu.com
<mungbean> ed snowden published a load of "arty" shots on ars technica in 2009 and it got aired in public when the stuff blew up
<AlanBell> it is interesting when what someone wants to be forgotten is their portion of a conversation
<mungbean> AlanBell: maybe non google searchable irclogs would be nicer
<AlanBell> and less useful
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: well, as long as the irclogs site itself has an internal search
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: also, how often do you go back to irc logs from '04?
<AlanBell> me, not often
<arsen> every so often, to find the same goddamn forum post link i always lose.
<AlanBell> but I do use site:irclogs.ubuntu.com in google searches from time to time
<mungbean> i haven't changed my irc name lately
<popey> me too
<popey> i want to go back and find a url that was mentioned somewhere or something
<mungbean> then you know it was on the site, and can use site:blah as MartijnVdS said
<mungbean> not everything has to be given to the google
<popey> but if google dont index it
<popey> then site: blah doesnt work
<mungbean> that was shorthand for internal search
<popey> it doesnt though
<popey> and thats only one use case
<arsen> ^_^ internet privacy debate.
<Myrtti> oh dear me
<Myrtti> my browser doesn't load iwfchecker.lightning-bolt.net
 * arsen just learnt what iwf is
<mungbean> http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/30/5048326/h7n9-bird-flu-spread-stopped-by-live-poultry-market-shutdown-researchers-find
<mungbean> plaese can someone using chrome do a test for me?
<mungbean> go here and click download https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/details?downloadGroup=DT-ESXI55-EMULEX-BE2ISCSI-462610&productId=353
<mungbean> vmware links don't work in chrome , strangely
<mgdm> asks me to log in
<mungbean> then it works
<mungbean> doesn't even respond to my click
<mungbean> oh. adblock plus
<mgdm> I was about to say
<mungbean> that happens so rarely
<MartijnVdS> Can anyone explain UK trains to me? :)
<mungbean> Snowden has secured employment with a "major" Russian website and will start work on Friday. Neither the particular employer nor Snowden's exact duties have been detailed, other than to say that he'll be performing a "technical support" role.
<Azelphur> They run on tracks, somehow never seem to run on time, and if there's a single leaf on the track everybody panics.
<mungbean> so hegot a visa?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: sure, but in the Netherlands, you can get one ticket and use it for all operators
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: metal wheels on metal rails, lots of slippy. old trains from 60s
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, 1 operator per line
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: you and your sane country
<Azelphur> :(
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: You generally can buy one ticket here as well - although there may be offers from some operators to do cheaper stuff
<mungbean> where u wnna go to/from?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: from Gatwick into London
<MartijnVdS> and back
<mungbean> gatwick express
<mungbean> theres a special train
<MartijnVdS> .. that's Â£10 more expensive than regular tickets
<mungbean> http://www.gatwickexpress.com/
<mungbean> and quick
<arsen> yes, just get a regular ticket
<arsen> gatwick express is fast, but slightly more money. normal train tickets work from gatwick to victoria (or clapham junction)
<mungbean> then u try not to fly to brighton next time and choose a london airport :P
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: transportdirect.info
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I was looking at nationalrail
<penguin42> hmm shouldn't be much difference
<MartijnVdS> Would tickets work at any time during the day, or are they train-dependent (or just route-dependent)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Generally in most places most tickets aren't provider specific, so you don't worry about who is running the train, sometimes you get special offers from one provider which makes theirs cheaper
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Generally you get on/off peak tickets but no more
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: or more expensive ;)
<Myrtti> Azelphur: could you please do me a favour
<Azelphur> Myrtti: sup?
<Myrtti> Azelphur: could you ping hilla.kapsi.fi
<arsen> tickets / routes can be done on thetrainline.com or nationalrailenquiries
<Myrtti> I just feel like ripping the head of a TalkTalk customer rep right now
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: works for me (v6 and v4) from .nl
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: If you do a search on transportdirect, go to the tickets/costs tab it then shows you the ticket types, and if you click on the type it'll show you the restrictionson that type of ticket
<Azelphur> Myrtti: 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 3001ms
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: how much Â£Â£ you getting quoted?
<Myrtti> right
<Azelphur> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 65.925/66.200/66.410/0.273 ms
<Myrtti> so it's just me
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: great, thanks!
<Myrtti> mine is blackholed somewhere in TalkTalk cabling then
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: If you buy in advance they're cheaper, but you can always buy on machines in the stations
<Myrtti> and TalkTalk want me to login to the account which I don't have a password for or any actual wish to have it.
<Myrtti> before they do anything else
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, did that before, but that cost a lot of money :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: OK, some of the in-advance ones are cheaper because they book to a particular time/seat - some are just cheaper because you book in advance
<mungbean> whats the cheapest ticket you seen so far?
<penguin42> for what?
<mungbean> sorry question for MartijnVdS
<mungbean> for his journey
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: 2 singles for Â£10 each, but I think those are "you have to get on that one specific train" type tickets
<mungbean> not a good combination with planes i suppose
<MartijnVdS> next one down is Â£28 for the return fare, which makes the Â£31 for the easy option (gatwick express) the best/least confusing option
<mungbean> going alone?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> but on Easyjet
<mungbean> wonder how much the buy @ station is for the regular railway
<mungbean> i.e. buy for particular train, but buy at station
<mungbean> http://www.headforpoints.com/2012/11/28/gatwick-express-promotional-code/
<mungbean> life is confusing
<MartijnVdS> *read*
<mungbean> also...for the brave http://www.easybus.co.uk/london-gatwick
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: took a bus from Luton into London once. Cheap, effective but *shudder*
<mungbean> took a bus from london to northern island once
<MartijnVdS> ireland*?
<mungbean> and also london to barcelona, pisa, etc
<mungbean> woops, a northern island called northern ireland
<MartijnVdS> "I went to the Northern Islands" 8-)
<MartijnVdS> "What, like Orkney?"
<mungbean> had a lady get on at perston with a 2 litre bottle of cider. did not end well
<mungbean> turned into rab c nesbit by the time we were in scotland
<mungbean> then a diabetic lady had an episode and we got stuck at a service station
<mungbean> i can't imagine the sea jounreys to NY by boat in the pre flight days
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I went across the North Sea by boat (and car) in May
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the other people were ... interesting
<mungbean> northern chavs?
<popey> then he broke his car at my house â¹
<MartijnVdS> popey: yeah, that day :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: nah, Rotterdam to Harwich, so mostly people who didn't want to drive to Belgium/France for a shorter boat trip ;)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: take the coach, they are so much nicer :)
<Azelphur> last time I was on a coach there was a guy trying to charge his phone off the plugs in the coach, which never actually seem to work
<mungbean> desprate times, desperate measures
<Azelphur> so I charged his phone off my battery, and he made me this https://www.dropbox.com/s/rp7yt493e2ifm2n/2013-10-24%2000.47.40.jpg?m :D
<mungbean> how did you charge it off his one?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur is magic
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> you can just plug things into my coat, and it charges them.
<Azelphur> my coat is a wizard.
<mungbean> does it have jelly beans in it?
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dUV4VAr9lk
<Azelphur> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=easyacc+battery&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aeasyacc+battery
<Azelphur> I have the 12000mAh one, they are super handy and super cheap
 * Azelphur recommends
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: do they come with laptop leads as well?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: unfortunately no, USB only. I had one that did laptops, but none of the universal ones will do my laptop
<Azelphur> My laptop is too power hungry
<MartijnVdS> wut
<mungbean> would something like this be compatible will new ipods ipads too ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plantronics-Backbeat-Stereo-Corded-Headphones/dp/B005UY1JVA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1383225726&sr=8-2&keywords=plantronics+backbeat+216
<MartijnVdS> "Here's your train booking confirmation and 3 free MP3s"
<mungbean> i have these earphones still new in the box but don't have ip*d hence want to sell them
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: probably
<Azelphur> mungbean: they got a mic on them? or are they just headphones
<mungbean> yeah mic too
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: my laptop wants 19V @ 6.3amps, none of the universal chargers can do it, :(
<mungbean> got a little inline controller on it
<Azelphur> mungbean: nice, what color? :)
<mungbean> play/pause/skip
<mungbean> white
<Azelphur> fun, I could take those off your hands :)
<Azelphur> the one I have atm everyone says they can't hear me overt he mic, at all
<Azelphur> even if I swallow the mic, it's annoying
<mungbean> sure, what u wanna give for them?
 * mungbean doesn't take bitcoin
<Azelphur> not even a little bit of bitcoin? :(
<Azelphur> I'll just leave this here http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/norwegian-student-kristoffer-koch-buys-27-in-bitcoin-in-2009-now-he-owns-an-apartment/story-e6frfmd9-1226748159679 :P
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> the headline tells the story
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can I borrow your time machine? I need to get back to '09
<Azelphur> mungbean: what make/model are they? I'll look em up and give you a sensible price
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I know that feeling man, I had 1000 BTC in 2012...
<Azelphur> I'm not doing bad atm though, thanks to my ASICs I'm rapidly approaching 120 BTC :)
<mungbean> 95% sure the model is plantronics backbeat 216 in white
<Azelphur> Â£16? :)
<mungbean> 16 inc P&P sounds v reasonable
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> paypal?
<mungbean> good for me
<Azelphur> making me spend dirty fiat money xD
<Azelphur> I hardly ever spend fiat now
<mungbean> you fold it up into little unicorns instead
<Azelphur> mungbean: nah, get my groceries, gadgetry, take out etc with bitcoin
<Azelphur> there's not a whole lot left I don't buy with BTC
<MartijnVdS> groceries?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> mungbean: what's your paypal address?
<mungbean> same as my email which i PM'd you
<mungbean> cool, at work today, so i'll send it out tomorrow :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: tax?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: didn't know HMRC accepted BTC
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ask them ;)
<Myrtti> aw man, no Nexus phones on the list http://www.yorkshiretea.co.uk/phone-case/
<Myrtti> I'd get one immediately
<Azelphur> Myrtti: haha
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: hahaha :)
<Myrtti> -______- I'm serious.
<Myrtti> *snif*
<Azelphur> mungbean: excluding rent and bills, I've probably spent Â£50 this month in fiat xD
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: well, with the new nexus being released soon (today?), they might have that under embargo
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: You should buy *a* Fiat with btc
<Azelphur> and this has been an "Expensive" month, went to London
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: probably not.
<Myrtti> :-(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: just to prove you can
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: *shrug* would be fairly pointless, I don't drive
<Azelphur> I have bought quite a wide variety of stuff with BTC, though
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Fiat also makes http://www.fiat-accessories.com/fiat-bikes
<Azelphur> everything from home baked brownies to SSDs :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> If I *really* knew what Bitcoins were I might be able to comment but as I don't I can't.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: time for an afternoon of light reading
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ7YG6UIl-U
<Azelphur> no need :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - I'm moving a rather large repo from svn to git right now.
<MartijnVdS> isn't that automated thoguh?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not using it afterwards ;-)
<mungbean> is thee a transcation fee if you trade/pay in BC?
<mungbean> Azelphur: you should write an article for the economist or national newspaper about life in bitcoin land.
<Azelphur> mungbean: sort of, the transaction fees are competitive, you set how much of a fee you want to pay.
<Azelphur> you can set a zero fee, it'll just take forever for your transaction to get processed (days, weeks even)
<Azelphur> but a ridiculously low fee (like 1p) will get you processed pretty quickly
<mungbean> itneresting
<mungbean> shame its such a volatile and virtual currency
<MartijnVdS> it prevents spamming of almost-empty transactions
<MartijnVdS> except by that on-line casino place
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: hehe, satoshidice :)
<Azelphur> I actually owned like 10% of satoshidice for a while
<Azelphur> sold it though (made a nice profit \o/)
<Azelphur> I dunno about writing articles, I find that a lot of people are currently in the ridicule stage
<Azelphur> (you know the age old saying, first they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win)
<MartijnVdS> happens every time it busts
<Azelphur> we're coming out of ridicule and into fight
<Azelphur> (the banks are PISSED)
<MartijnVdS> wasn't there a big peak/drop earlier this week?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, that was because DPR got arrested
<mungbean> was 1BC = $20 las year?
<Azelphur> sounds about right yea
<mungbean> insane
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's $200ish now
<mungbean> how can it be $200 now
<mungbean> madness
<Myrtti> wohoo, shop.ubuntu.com seems to be going to the same black hole as hilla.kapsi.fi
<Azelphur> mungbean: because, it's the future
<Azelphur> mungbean: lets put it like this. Why do you think I'm sitting on more BTC than I am fiat.
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> no guarantees of course, but you can see where I've placed my bets.
<mungbean> https://twitter.com/nickdebois/status/395906463618842625
<mungbean> "Splitting my time between HS2 debate and Oversight of intelligence and security services this afternoon"
<dwatkins> Do MPs even read Twitter comments?
<mungbean> my one replied
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: why would they?
<dwatkins> I was discussing the fact Bayer are sueing the government for the pesticide ban, and my brother pointed out it might be better to write to my MEP/MP about it.
<mungbean> "Listening to oversight of intelligence services debate, I have found no reason to regret my previous opposition to the Data Comms Bill"
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I wonder with some of them if they have a secretary to send the tweets out, and they only see a small number of the replies.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's common over here, though most of them are "outed" quite quickly and then just stop tweeting
<MartijnVdS> some are actually funny 8-)
<dwatkins> ah ok
<mungbean> my MP doesn't get many tweets
<mungbean> i think he replies during boring debates
<mungbean> and waiting at train stations
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: train stations? not private limos?
<SuperMatt> oh they're frist class trains
<SuperMatt> but that have to be seen to be of the people and for the people
<mungbean> we don't get first class
<SuperMatt> I'd quite like to see a politician on the bus
<mungbean> or actually i travel first class every day because my line doesn't have 1st class but they are old standstead express rolloing stock
<SuperMatt> in theory, my mp shouldn't need any other transport than the very bus I take
<mungbean> boris and camerion get the bike
<SuperMatt> because it goes past westminster
<mungbean> many used to have crash pads nr westminster
<SuperMatt> indeed, well if Harriet Harmon is one of those, she should be ashamed because I live in her constituency
<dwatkins> Doesn't Boris cycle around London (with a limo to carry his briefcase)?
<SuperMatt> I've no idea really
<SuperMatt> I kinda tune him out
<brobostigon> dwatkins: more than likely, yes.
<popey> http://neo900.org/index#donate 6.3K already
<MartijnVdS> popey: the next Ubuntu Phone?
<popey> Doesn't look beefy enough
<MartijnVdS> popey: Nexus 5 in (possibly) 5 minutes, 4 hours + 5 minutes otherwise (there are 2 rumoured release times)
<mgdm> the GTA04 isn't all that beefy
<popey> hehe
<popey> MartijnVdS: gimmie a link when you have it
<MartijnVdS> popey: OK, if I can't get it myself ;)
<popey> kk
<popey> i dont want one â»
<jussi> popey: that hdmi thing was a bunch of fail. doesnt seem to work with my TV (some base resolution worked, but fails otherwise)
<popey> oof
<jussi> (ie. the boot screen on the digibox works)
<awilkins> When Nexus 5 comes out do we all get KitKat magically?  (hahahaha)
<jussi> I need ot play some more, and it may need the optional power adapter
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I want to believe!
<penguin42> bah, the morph kickstarter doesn't give you a morph (well you can get your own morph character for #1500)
<awilkins> Neo900 : sounds nice, I'll have to repossess my N900 from my daughter.
<opyate> hey guys, can someone please point me to the final word on getting Wifi on Dell XPS 13 LE stable?
<popey> opyate: what version of ubuntu?
<opyate> stock
<popey> 12.04?
<opyate> 12.4.3 LTS
<opyate> popey: from experience, upgrading to fix one thing breaks 1000 other things
<popey>  sudo apt-get install --install-recommends linux-generic-lts-raring xserver-xorg-lts-raring libgl1-mesa-glx-lts-raring
<opyate> popey: thanks, I'll try that. Have you had similar issues?
<popey> no, i know others who have
<opyate> ok
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<popey> it lets you run newer kernel on 12.04
<opyate> popey: that sounds great, thank you. I'll try now
<popey> np
<Myrtti> wheeee now it works again
<ndy40> edheart
<SuperMatt> ...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/10/meet-badbios-the-mysterious-mac-and-pc-malware-that-jumps-airgaps/
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, *maybe*
<awilkins> TheOpenSourcerer, Seriously, that just has to be a Halloween story, right?
<gordonjcp> it's a good story
<gordonjcp> I guess it's *possible* to use audio to transmit data between machines without anyone noticing
<awilkins> Ultrasonic packets delivered over speakers and mike to infect other machines at the BIOS level? Riiiiiight.
<awilkins> Not sure that standard laptop mikes can even record ultrasound
<gordonjcp> awilkins: it didn't say that uninfected machines were affected by audio networking
<penguin42> that sounds like a ghost story
<gordonjcp> might not have to be *that* high
<penguin42> awilkins: Maaaaybe - but even if they could there's no way they could infect anything that way
<AlanBell> you can transmit/receive white noise data
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno? Apparently the main main has been talking about it for some time now...
<AlanBell> but you kinda have to code up the receiving end to listen for it
<awilkins> penguin42, I've heard stories of digital radar sets being infected with malware via tailored radar bursts (via buffer overflows, etc)
<TheOpenSourcerer> They do not say it's infecting over the air. Just already infected machines communicating.
<penguin42> awilkins: OK, but they're job is to receive stuff from radar and process it - the bios/efi don't listen to audio
<TheOpenSourcerer> Unless it's been infected and told to...
<awilkins> penguin42, Yup... although it's being pitched as a way of networking an airgapped machine
<penguin42> awilkins: Although I guess hmm chance of breaking a running speech processing app?
<awilkins> Dunno. Well, I'm orf
<Myrtti> dwatkins: http://imgur.com/gallery/J5wG7Ut
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: if you get your levels just right, you can run fldigi and use PSK31 across a moderately quiet room with just acoustic coupling
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: although the distinctive purring burble is quite apparent
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Well the stuff designed to cross the atlantic on audio I guess a noisy room would be a no-brainer
<gordonjcp> penguin42: aha, no
<gordonjcp> penguin42: it's extremely susceptible to in-band noise
<gordonjcp> because it's incredibly narrow-band it's generally easy to find a spot where no-one is transmitting and use that
<penguin42> ah ok
<dwatkins> Myrtti: haha, has this meme overtaken lolcats?
<diddledan> Iâd tell you a UDP joke, but you may not get it.
<diddledan> alternatively, I could tell you a joke about TCP, but Iâd have to keep repeating it until you got it.
<diddledan> I like IP jokes; itâs all in the delivery.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I know someone who talks like an owl.
<diddledan> I'll bet he's a right hoot
<diddledan> http://dhtmlconf.com/
<dwatkins> timing
<dwatkins> What's the secret of a good joke?
<BigRedS> What's the current right way to stop network manager? I can't seem to find an upstart incantation that works
<MartijnVdS> service network-manager stop
<BigRedS> I was afraid of that
<BigRedS> stop: Unknown job: network-manager
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<BigRedS> /etc/init/network-manager.conf is there, which I think is what upstart wants
<MartijnVdS> that works on 13.10 for me
<BigRedS> yeah, this is 13.10
<MartijnVdS> you need to be root, of course
<BigRedS> yeah, I am
<MartijnVdS> weird
<BigRedS> hm. Might try a reboot, see if that helps...
<BigRedS> bah :(
<BigRedS> I did wonder about just booting into single when grub came up :)
<BigRedS> Hm. Solving my actual problem, though, network-manager seems to have stopped renegotiating eth0's connection for me, though
<popey> https://fixubuntu.com/ hmmm
<MartijnVdS> popey: automatix reborn?
<popey> heh
<BigRedS> there's an ebay scope? Oooh
<MartijnVdS> I only use the Alt+F2 interface, and the button bar on the side of course
<BigRedS> oh, I think that's being speculative and future-proof
<BigRedS> yeah, I haven't yet found anything that the windows key is good for searching for
<dwatkins> I don't have a windows key on my keyboard.
<BigRedS> I do note it's now also got an "are you sure" intermediate required click, too :(
<daftykins> popey: btw i saw that dusty computer link :) it looked seriously fake!
<knightwise> eevenin everyone
<BigRedS> goood morning!
<knightwise> hey BigRedS
<BigRedS> morning! How's things?
<knightwise> doin fine... just stayed up a little later then usual uploading the latest podcast
 * knightwise is NEVER doing large video productions again :)
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: talk to daubers if you do ;)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: This is slowly turning from a video podcast into making a fracking documentary :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise Attenborough
<knightwise> nah :) its a documentary about belgiums biggest cosplay event.
<knightwise> I just uploaded the first half hour .. and still have another half hour to go
<knightwise> (about 7 interviews with cosplayers I need to edit.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: so more of a Jambers thing :P
<brobostigon> if anyone has a spare Â£300, a nexus5 please. :D
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: :p thats cheap ..
<MartijnVdS> "Overdag werkt zij gewoon op kantoor, maar 's avonds ontpopt zij zicht tot anime-cosplayster"
<knightwise> The first part we do interviews with game studios like Grin, ubisoft and also some stores
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: you can imagine the voice ;)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: :p I knew the voice all too well
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: sorry, spent my spare cash on my own N5
<knightwise> we have some amazing cosplayers we interviewed ,so thats gonna be cool for part 2
<knightwise> anyone get the N5 yet ?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, enjoy :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I have a tracking code, will get it before noon tomorrow \o/
<knightwise> cool :)
<knightwise> I have a note3 and a samsung Gear here that I need to try out next week
<knightwise> looking forward to playing with that too
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/willsmith/status/396029143638233089
<knightwise> ha :)
<knightwise> indeed
<knightwise> pretty soon the google glassers are gonna be watching us
<knightwise> hmm.. gave elementary os a try today
<knightwise> pretty ok if you ask me
<BigRedS> is that the osx lookalike?
<knightwise> not realy
<knightwise> its more light system friendly but still has pretty good looks
<knightwise> did an interview today for the next Knightwise.com podcast
<knightwise> so i decided to try it out first
<BigRedS> Ah yeah, it is the one I was thinking of; someone was telling me part of the point of it was to be osxalike
<diddledan> I long for os x keybindings on a linux system
<diddledan> (preferably ubuntu)
<diddledan> i.e. win+c = copy
<diddledan> and I don't want to faff around implementing it myself! (before you suggest messing with the keymap)
<diddledan> in os x win/apple/cmd and ctrl are two independant keys so just swapping the keymap around isn't really sufficient
<shauno> tried that.  gave up.  it's not the keymap that's the problem.  every major toolkit uses windows-style menu accelerators
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/697708033/hdmipi-affordable-9-high-def-screen-for-the-raspbe
<penguin42> popey: http://elinux.org/RPi_Screens  suggests in principal the Pi could take displays with MIPI
<diddledan> penguin42: MIPI?
<penguin42> diddledan: It's a standard interface that's apparently on a lot of stuff
<diddledan> I see
<diddledan> that link took me here to this purdy screen: http://www.panelook.com/LQ101R1SX01_SHARP_10.1_LCM_overview_20064.html
<diddledan> that's a lotta pixies
<penguin42> yeh I think that's the one used in the Google Pixels
<penguin42> the Lenovo Yoga2 and one of the Sammy laptops have a higher res 11
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-01
 * mungbean clocks in 
<MartijnVdS> Good morning mungbean
<mungbean> hello
<mungbean> just feeding the sprog. tasty banana porridge
<mungbean> reading the kickstarter page for raspi scrren ...looks good
<MartijnVdS> speaking of the raspi
<MartijnVdS> I need to get mine out again and make it useful
<mungbean> i have an idea :P
<mungbean> run as a dashboard server http://shopify.github.io/dashing/ collecting metrics and important house info
<diplo_> Morning all
<dwatkins> I like the example names, 'convergence' etc.
<dwatkins> Not sure how you'd put a number on that, I think someone was poking a bit of fun at management-types.
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/
<Myrtti> there's no ubuntu themed mobile phone cover thingie for Galaxy Nexuses?
<Myrtti> boot
<Myrtti> boo
<Myrtti> I bet there's plenty of them getting Ubuntu into them this week
<dwatkins> moar tea!
<mungbean> i think i've peaked for the day already at about 8am
<popey> I was still asleep at 8am
<mungbean> teething baby slept fine last night but my body woke me up and 3,5, then 6, so i gave wifey a "lay in"
 * TheOpenSourcerer has been working since 7am. But off to a beer festival later :-D
<Myrtti> \o/ sent feedback to shop.ubuntu.com and already got a reply (that they're forwarding it to relevant department :-/) \o/
<popey> https://www.play-i.com/
<popey> interesting
<mungbean> nice toy for rich people
<dwatkins> I give them about a week before they fall apart in the hands of a child.
<ali12341> i don't see what programming robots has to do with computer literacy
<BigRedS> ali12341: didn't you hear? Teaching kids to program would solve all the problems with our education system
<ali12341> these "education" robots haven't changed in 20 years
<popey> Big Trak!
<ali12341> yes, big trak
<ali12341> remember the advert where the kid "programs" it to deliver an apple to his dad?
<mungbean> big trak was like logo the turtle
<ali12341> how did the apple get into the big trak? it doesn't have a grabber, and you don't usually store apples on the floor
<popey> Quick! Phone the ASA!
<mungbean> and i never saw evil knievel bike ever do that jump irl
<mungbean> only in the ads did it ever work
<ali12341> maybe that's the point though
<ali12341> maybe learning what computers can't do is more important than learning what they can do
 * mungbean strokes his chin
<dwatkins> I have a Big Trak with a thing to hold a drink can, same thing - you have to put the can in it.
<BigRedS> Learning what they can't do is supposed to come 14 hours into trying to make them do that, though
<BigRedS> else you don't really remember the limitation
<ali12341> yes
<mungbean> i got to use a big trak once, ever
<mungbean> and it was in a school classroom
<ali12341> yeah same here
<mungbean> they took me out for "special lessons" once a week (allegedly for the brightest kids). i never realised what was happening at the time, why me and 6 other kids had to have lessons in the portkabin, but i later discovered that the rest of the class got to play with big trak every week while i was in the portakabin
<mungbean> what a swindle
<mungbean> meanwhile in the special lesson i was berated by a lady for drawing my o the "wrong" way, because i am left handed. i still do it that way, its the right way for me
 * mungbean gets off the psychiatrists couch
<SuperMatt> what's the state of bluray in 13.10?
<ali12341> reading or writing?
<mungbean> have they replaced bluray yet?
<mungbean> hoping to skip ..
<SuperMatt> watching
<popey> yes, we have replaced bluray with streaming video and not getting to keep and play the content
<mungbean> \o/ ...oh /o\
<directhex> playing (most) blu-ray rips is fine. i don't know if you can play direct from disc on arbitrary discs yet
<directhex> not without a static key decryption database downloaded from the wobbletubes
<directhex> and BD+ is also a thing
<Myrtti> I note Google Play now has the Chromecast app available for Britons, even if the device isn't sold there
<mungbean> :S
<ali12341> writing is still not properly supported because wodim sucks
<ali12341> you have to download and compile cdrecord which works properly
<Myrtti> it's Â£40 in Amazon now, which is about 20quid less it was few weeks ago
<mungbean> what, for the app?
<Myrtti> no, for the device
<mungbean> phew
<Myrtti> app is free
<popey> i have a chromecast on the way
<ali12341> how do i inform dch of my email address so it stops using al@desktop.local when i edit a changelog?
<popey> DEBEMAIL=popey@ubuntu.com
<popey> DEBFULLNAME=Alan Pope
<popey> set them
<ali12341> thanks
<popey> np
<Myrtti> is there any sane way of automating a jboss thingie install? in Ubuntu specifically and main rpm/deb distros in general
<Myrtti> I was first thinking of OBS but maybe Juju/Chef would do better?
<ali12341> well... OBS is for building packages
<Myrtti> yes, well I suspect there's people who are resistant to the seirene call of Chef/Juju
<Myrtti> so it might not be out of place to give packages too
<Myrtti> s/seirene/siren/
<ali12341> i don't like installing things that can't be uninstalled
<ali12341> but OBS does not give you anything special
<ali12341> you still package it the normal way. OBS just builds it
<ali12341> 9 hour queue for PPA builds... jeez
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Authors' Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> happy mailman day, JamesTait
<dwatkins> I thought it was poets, not authors today...
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, again?!?  I'm sure my mailman doesn't visit that often....
<JamesTait> dwatkins, I think that'd be P.O.E.T.S day, wouldn't it? ;)
<JamesTait> (And no, I won't be doing, since I started so late this morning.)
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<JamesTait> Morning davmor2, brobostigon! o/
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<davmor2> JamesTait: morning dude I thought I'd throw your day out for a change :)
<Myrtti> now I feel silly, I can't wait to get the new phone so I can put Ubuntu on this one
<JamesTait> davmor2, my day's already out - the kids are off school and I'm having to do Minetest maintenance before work this week. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: haha
<JamesTait> Plus this morning I had to take the Hallowe'en decorations down.
<mungbean> http://londonist.com/2013/10/fly-through-17th-century-london.php
<mungbean> i'd play that game
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: "You start a fire. The city burns down."
<MartijnVdS> </17th century>
<mungbean> you were hit by a gruel
<MartijnVdS> "You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all different"
<mungbean> you caught the plague. you die. everybody dies
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://dftba.com/product/14z/Everything-Is-Dead-T-Shirt
<dwatkins> NORTH
<brobostigon> nw
<dwatkins> You can't go north-west from here.
<MartijnVdS> ah, you're at the pole?
 * mungbean remembers to go to the post office to send Azelphur's package
 * popey wonders when his chromecast will arrive
 * MartijnVdS finishes configuring his Nexus 5
<arsen> ooh you have a nexus5?:o
<MartijnVdS> yup :)
<arsen> any good? :)
<MartijnVdS> it's VERY slick & fast
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: that was quick
<Myrtti> how'd you get it so fast?
<arsen> still sat on my iphone 4s :/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Ordered at a store that offered overnight shipping for orders before 20:00
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: and ordered it around 19:30
<Myrtti> yeah, that would explain it
<arsen> annoyingly tied into the apple way of doing things, but i cant say i'm any more keen to move to android than i am to get a new iphone - and i'm really excited by any of the new i-devices.
<Myrtti> I'm not sure what I think of my last night now
<arsen> sorry - i'm NOT really excited by any new apple devices.
<arsen> maybe the age of exciting new hardware has passed.
<Myrtti> on one hand I got to see Benedict twerk his bum and saw both him and Jonny Lee doing excellent theatre
<Myrtti> on the other I missed out on Nexus 5 being here next week
<dwatkins> don't let a Nexus completely lose its charge, you have to reset it to get it to boot up again.
<dwatkins> at least that's the case with the Nexus 7 I have.
<arsen> stuff like that ^ is what puts me off moving to android phones :<
<Myrtti> what do you mean with "completely"
<Myrtti> I've ran out of battery on mine several times and have never needed to reset it because of that
<brobostigon> because it theory, it should shut down, before it completly drains.
<brobostigon> not had that issue with my nexus7 either.
<dwatkins> Perhaps it's only this particular model, the original nexus 7.
<Myrtti> that's what I have
<dwatkins> maybe it's only certain firmware version[s]
<popey> same for nexus 4
<brobostigon> i have the 2012 8gb model.
<popey> but depends what you mean by "reset"
<dwatkins> https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/2668668?hl=en
<popey> yeah
<popey> we see that a lot with Nexus 4's
<MartijnVdS> I'm too paranoid to drain my batteries
<MartijnVdS> If it goes down to 50% it's a special day
<arsen> doesn't that kill the battery memory?
<popey> no
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: what was your old phone?
<MartijnVdS> galaxy nexus
<Myrtti> doing a backup of my GN now
<mungbean> argh still getting PPI voice call spam
<brobostigon> every so often, we get the one where they claim to be from "microshaft support" and that they found a virus on a computer they have no access to. i tend to like to lead them on. and waste there merry time.
<bashrc> that's an old scam now
<dwatkins> I'd like to have a virtual machine ready for them if they call me, and put a bunch of files in it as a honeypot. I might even consider infecting some PDFs with stuff which phones home so I can see where they are or pass details on to the authorities of the relevant country for fraud.
<brobostigon> bashrc: agreed, and thousands i hear about, fall for it.
<bashrc> social engineering is alarmingly easy to do
<brobostigon> like the I-god phenomena.
<penguin42> the what?
<brobostigon> the apple religeon.
<penguin42> oh
<brobostigon> it was last year, they did tests on apple fans, and there brains actually did interpret it like a religeon.
<mungbean> i don't understand the first day queueing thing
<mungbean> crowd mentality
<brobostigon> thats an aspect of that same phenomena.
<mungbean> then again i don't understand hipsters
<mungbean> went to a gig in shoreditch where all the hipsters were hiding
<mungbean> it was hilarious
<mungbean> all of them identical
<mungbean> if a tree falls in a forest and nobody hears it, will a hipster buy the soundtrack?
<brobostigon> lol
<penguin42> mungbean: No, he'll use it as a backing track for a slow motion video
<popey> the first day queuing isn't new or only apple, it's just more prevalent now, and seen more because they have retail stores and social media lauds/mocks it
 * popey notes how many people beat a door down to the google play store to get a nexus 5 yesterday
<popey> exact same thing
<popey> just more comfy
<mungbean> i don't know why you people would camp out for anything
<marxjohnson> when i think of first day queing the first thing that springs to mind is Windows 95 rather than apple stuff
<mungbean> sorry the you crept in
<mungbean> i think of the star wars fans ep 1 queueing 2 months in advance, and the film was rubbish
<penguin42> yeh it's just being part of a culture
<popey> ya
<penguin42> which reminds me, I wonder how cheap Nexus 4's are now
<popey> Strange though that star wars fans are called "fans" yet iphone users are called "sheep"
<popey> says more about the observer than the observed
<penguin42> popey: I suppose there is a bit of a difference of going and everyone spending #5 to watch a film and spending #500 pound
<popey> so even less so
<popey> people who are willing to throw away a fiver could be called sheep
<mungbean> i think because among non technical friends , most just repeat the same mantra they have heard
<popey> people who are committed enough to spend 500 quid.. ??
<mungbean> most can't afford it either
<popey> that happens for everything
<popey> "Fox News: Fair and balanced"
<penguin42> popey: Mind you, I'm just tight so....
<popey> an American actually said that to me once.
<mungbean> i only see it for phones among acquaintances
<popey> open your eyes â»
<mungbean> although a nigerian friend came to UK and asked what paper to read , he was told "the sun is good for news"
<mungbean> so he read the sun for 3 years without considering what else was there
<penguin42> ouch
<popey> kids buying 1D tickets
<popey> car enthusiasts sticking to one make/model
<popey> etc
<popey> deriding other peoples choices
<mungbean> " among acquaintances       "
<popey> "Ewww, you bought a volvo"
<popey> etc
<popey> I still don't believe it â»
<mungbean> i only see unsolicited advice like that from my acquaintances re phones
<mungbean> solicited advice is fine
<penguin42> CeX seem to be selling a 'Google Nexus 4 16GB, Non Working' for 127
<mungbean> e.g. which dentist to go to etc
<popey> people like validation of their own purchases
<penguin42> popey: I think pricey tech purchases are status symbols as well though that's not true of cheap things like flocking to see the same film
<popey> spoken like a true tightass â»
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> popey: It's especially true among kids though, it's the same as expensive clothes etc
<popey> exactly
<popey> ergo: "sheep" applies to more than phones, and not just apple
<penguin42> popey: Yeh agreed
<popey> nobody ever says "android sheep"
<penguin42> popey: But different from the star-wars fans
<popey> yet it's the widest (arguably) used platform, and has people stabbing F5 to get in on the first day
<gordonjcp> why are you calling people sheep?
<MartijnVdS> Googly Sheep!
<gordonjcp> is it because they're all doing the same thing?
<popey> I'm not.
<gordonjcp> because, whoever coined the term "sheep" in that context has evidently not tried to get sheep to do anything
<popey> hah
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah yeh you see that's the difference, I'm an android fan - but I buy a cheapo phone not the latest
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the latest is pretty cheap compared to the competition
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's less than half the price of the top-of-the-line iphone
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I'd point out when I said cheap I meant I spent #80 on a ZTE device
<MartijnVdS> ah, well, yes :)
<MartijnVdS> Cheap++
<popey> there's a reason it's cheaper â»
 * penguin42 can have a tightness battle with the cheapest
<popey> LG don't make any premium phones do they?
<popey> FSVO "premium"
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Nexus 5 ;)
<MartijnVdS> uh popey
<penguin42> popey: Well there are the LG Optimus phones that are pretty neat - but they don't have the following of Google/Samsung/Apple
<penguin42> popey: And the google and samsung ones do have the advantage of being hackable more; I mean if you were buying to run Ubuntu Touch, Cyanogen builds or half a dozen other things you'd probably want the Nexus?
<penguin42> anyway, disappears to meet a friend
<MartijnVdS> cool! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goOa3DGezUA
<arsen> cool MartijnVdS
<arsen> interesting.
<mungbean> clicks "watch later"
 * dwatkins clicks "like" to save it to his twitter video list
<arsen> what's a twitter video list? :o
<dwatkins> arsen: you can configure youtube to tweet a link to a video when you click "like", so I have it linked to an account I use purely to list the videos I've liked.
<dwatkins> "dom_links" if you're curious
<arsen> interesting. thanks.
<dwatkins> I do something similar with bit.ly and URLs of sites I find interesting.
<arsen> cool, i guess i tend to just.. watch stuff or read it immediately so no real need to store it. sometimes stuff i know i'll want to see again later or in the distant future, i'll just paste in irc and use irclogs xD
<dwatkins> I'm not bothered about storing it up for future consuption, although sometimes it's useful to go back, I just like sharing things for people to see
<arsen> gotcha. i guess i'd just tweet it, or facebook it if it's not too techy :)
<dwatkins> that's pretty much what I do, yeah.
<arsen> though if i did everything i think people would be annoyed by the sheer amount of content i consume on a daily basis, heh.
<dwatkins> yeah, I shared a link to my twitter accounts in case anyone wants to follow them, so I don't spam facebook with them.
<dwatkins> I also share a couple things on facebook that I think people might find useful, of course.
<arsen> like knights in shining armor we scour the web for interesting informatino for our friends.
<dwatkins> oh I don't do much scouring, I just read various subreddits ;)
<mungbean> whoah http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-24771483
<popey> that'll make for a fun friday
<MartijnVdS> *long
<mungbean> my sis came to visit today, sh e might have to stay over
<dwatkins> oh my
<Seeker`> mungbean: where are you?
<mungbean> live near j25
 * MartijnVdS re-programs the targeting system of the missiles
<mungbean> you got a direct hit on the lorry
<Seeker`> mungbean: ah, yes. She won't be going anywhere fast then :P
 * Seeker` is near J20
<mungbean> also means all the roads get screwed
<mungbean> divert ont a406 and a10 etc
<MartijnVdS> I've actually been there 8-)
<MartijnVdS> (I have a receipt from South Mimms services)
<ali12341> oh good... libdbusmenu simply won't build in a ppa, even if you upload it with only trivial changes (ie bump the changelog and nothing else)
<MartijnVdS> ftbfs \o/
<mungbean> lorry driver was arrested
<mungbean> dangerous driving
<davmor2> mungbean: dangerous driving, shed load, reckless endangerment, damages and depending on Alcohol/drug blood test under the influence as a minimum I would imagine
<davmor2> mungbean: difference between a normal driver and a professional one
<ali12341> bug 1247162
<lubotu3> bug 1247162 in libdbusmenu (Ubuntu) "fails to build from source in PPA due to test failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1247162
<mungbean> to flatten the central res and wipe out 2 carriageways, i wonder what happens
<mungbean> happened
<mungbean> swerve to avoid something?
<Seeker`> mungbean: fell asleep at the wheel maybe
<mungbean> also that
<davmor2> Wow I have a responsive system again
<MartijnVdS> low sun?
<Seeker`> i can't imagine it is difficult to lose control of one of those things, and once they start skidding, they'll probably slide wherever they want to go
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: I doubt he would have been arrested for a low sun?
<marxjohnson> ali12341: Thanks for looking in to that issue!
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: low sun might have just been one factor
<mungbean> there has been no sun today
<davmor2> Seeker`: it's really hard to lose control of one of those, the only time isn't is if the trailor is empty and there are strong cross winds
<ali12341> marxjohnson: np. looks like i've opened a real can of worms though
<Seeker`> davmor2: I mean if he fell asleep at the wheel or something, then tried to correct rapidly etc.
<marxjohnson> ali12341: so I see :(
<ali12341> marxjohnson: you can do a local build of libdbusmenu, it just doesn't work in a PPA for some reason
<marxjohnson> that's odd
<davmor2> Seeker`: you would still be on the right side of the road you would only likely crush a couple of cars if they were beside you
<ali12341> http://askubuntu.com/q/369302/12435 <- if you do this, it works
<marxjohnson> ali12341: At least I now know it's not a problem in my indicator
<mungbean> i think thats the 50mph section on the m25
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/PgpxU1e.jpg
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS do you know about Van Persie's toe injury?
<RaycisCharles> Apparently he needed injections to play through the pain.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: I know nothing about football
<gordonjcp> two footballers are in the dressing room talking to the coach
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: except these: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Machinima/TheMiracleOfSwindonTown
<gordonjcp> one says "Boss, before I go out there and play, I want a cortisone injection"
<DJones> RaycisCharles: He's a pansyball player, he'd need medication before a haircut,
<gordonjcp> the other footballer says, "yeah and if he's getting a new car, I want a new car too!"
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: hahaha :)
<DJones> gordonjcp: And the Rugby player just wets themselve laughing at them, disllocation? ok, carry on, concussion..Who do I tackle
 * DJones points out that he's  biased, football is as much a sport as hairdressing is
<MartijnVdS> DJones: check out that tvtropes link
<MartijnVdS> DJones: and the associated youtube show
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Football.. as narrated/played by an author :)
<DJones> Sheesh, twitter is so informative "Roads are wet after rain" sent by a local police authority....Duh!
<MartijnVdS> DJones: tweet back at them: "No shit, Sherlock"
<DJones> I think the irony would be lost on the,
<DJones> them
<MartijnVdS> true
<mezzapazza> 1v4n4
<jgjones_> Good evening...
<brobostigon> evening jgjones_
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jgjones_> I was wondering - on Windows one might use a memory dump or even access the SAM file in order to take passwords...where can I read to see how the password process works on Linux during login?
<MartijnVdS> jgjones_: depends on how you log in
<MartijnVdS> jgjones_: probably by looking at the source of the PAM libraries
<MartijnVdS> everything uses that
<jgjones_> Ah thanks I'll look at that.
<diddledan> JGJones: at the most basic level a root-permissioned program (login for e.g.) will read the /etc/shadow file and compare the hashed version of the input password with the hash stored in that file. pam extends the process somewhat but at it's core it does the same.
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> oh I did get the right nickname
<JGJones> @diddledan That's sorta what I figured. What happens to the entered password - ie does it still live in the memory (ie can one obtain it via a memory dump)
<JGJones> damn twitter
<MartijnVdS> for a short while
<MartijnVdS> probably
<diddledan> no it doesn't remain in memory afaik
<diddledan> there's no need for it to remain
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's in memory while it's being checked
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah, but that's transient
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: everything is transient :P
<JGJones> yes there's no need - so does it just get flushed out or just the memory area marked as *not in use* and potentially readable ie via memory dump or whatever?
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: you should probably check every PAM-using app to make sure
<MartijnVdS> they probably wipe i
<MartijnVdS> t
<JGJones> OK thanks. It helps.
<diddledan> surely a memory dump would require root permission and therefore your password is as good as taken anyway without requiring a memory dump because the attacker can brute-force the /etc/shadow file
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: unless you dunk the machine in liquid nitrogen before powering it off, then reading VERY carefully
<diddledan> yeah, but who has actually done that successfully in the wild (not in a lab)?
<MartijnVdS> uhh
<JGJones> diddledan: yeah I know - however am doing a security course and am learning about linux login process atm - obviously with a root access you don't need to do a memory dump, you might as well use a key logger instead, much easier.
<diddledan> physical access to dunk it in nitrogen is physical access to be able to reboot into something that allows to read the /etc/shadow file and manipulate it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: true
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: apt-get source libpam ;)
<diddledan> the problem with using either keyloggers or memory dumps is that you have to sift through large data files - once you're root, the /etc/shadow file can be brute forced much easier than finding needle minus haystack
<MartijnVdS> replacing libpam with a h4x0red copy is also easy then
<diddledan> good point, MartijnVdS
<JGJones> diddledan: you could just search a keylogger log for keywords - say look for http://hotmail.com and then just read the keypresses after this - ie username followed by a potential password
<JGJones> brute-forcing a /etc/shadow might take a long time depending on what hashing method is used. Ubuntu for example use SHA512 don't they?
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: it depends more on the password difficulty than on the used hashing algo, unfortunately
<JGJones> Yeah that's true....I forgot about the recent arstechnia articles about cracking long passwords etc :)
<JGJones> In a lab that we're learning in, we use randomly generated 8 character alphanumeric passwords so a bit difficult
<MartijnVdS> easiest way to catch passwords is writing a PAM module, and getting root to add it to /etc/pam.d/*
<mungbean> watching papillon, great film, why did i never see this before?
<popey> heh, bitcoin getting mentioned on HIGNFY
<diddledan> ooh, kitkat uses SELinux now
<mgdm> expect it to randomly not work, then
<mgdm> I mean, more so :P
<diddledan> lol
<popey> http://joke.popey.com/
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<penguin42> diddledan: where did you see that?
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.youtube.com/user/ScottBradleeLovesYa/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=2&view=0
<popey> jan wildebeat mentioned it on G+ earlier
<diddledan> penguin42: http://www.android.com/versions/kit-kat-4-4/
<penguin42> Ta
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: that guy's great
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: yeah, scary sometimes even
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: "Lithium vs Titanium" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXBXllRcf_4
<diddledan> penguin42: it's hidden at the bottom under the "even more features" reveal
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: I got reminded of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuYutmFPPK4 last night, they're also entertaining
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: oh wow
<penguin42> diddledan: http://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html  seems to have the more details
<penguin42> diddledan: Seems to be a lot of stuff about improving memory stuff
<diddledan> so, the question.. when do I get shiny kitkat on my nexus one?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I guess you don't
<diddledan> correction galaxy nexus (I was gonna say that originally)
<MartijnVdS> you still don't ;)
<MartijnVdS> wait for a Cyanogenmod version for it
<diddledan> why not?
<MartijnVdS> because Google isn't going to provide an official updat
<MartijnVdS> e
<diddledan> who says?
<MartijnVdS> Google
<penguin42> it does say on that page that it is supported on devices with 512MB RAM and up so it should be OK....
<MartijnVdS> sure, but if they don't release an update, you're out of luck
<MartijnVdS> unless you flash custom firmware
 * penguin42 thought everyone did
<diddledan> dangit
<diddledan> engadget suggests it's down to texus instruments leaving mobile altogether
<MartijnVdS> that could be part of the problem
<diddledan> that really suckx
 * MartijnVdS has a N5, doesn't see a problem
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> diddledan: I'm not sure why that would make a big difference
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> I accidentally just ordered a nexus5
<MartijnVdS> "oops"
<diddledan> damn you brain!
<diddledan> it'll be here on monday supposedly
<jpds> You just accidentally  a nexus5?
<MartijnVdS> wow.. the built-in speakers are amazing!
<popey> better than the n4?
<popey> cant be worse
<MartijnVdS> I don't know the N4 speakers
<MartijnVdS> there are nice big speakers in the bottom of the phone
<popey> shit
<MartijnVdS> they're certainly much better than the Galaxy Nexus speakers
<MartijnVdS> Hm... I like Google's Instant Mix algorithm
<MartijnVdS> (a) it only uses songs I own, and (b) it actually produces a playlist I'd like to listen to
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-02
<constrictor> my keyboard keeps defaulting to US, even though I have removed it from my keyboard applet thing
<mungbean> http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/nov/01/snowden-nsa-files-surveillance-revelations-decoded#section/6
<Myrtti> new phone day!
<GentileBen> Did you get the Nexus 5? :o
<Myrtti> yes.
<MartijnVdS> \o/ n5
<Myrtti> still waiting for Parcelforce though
<GentileBen> Oh you're also in the UK.
<GentileBen> You sure it'll arrive today? Mine's still at the depot.
<Myrtti> parcelforce claims the car has left Cambridge depot
<GentileBen> Dispatched on Thursday, arrived at regional depot on Friday, arrived at local depot today at 5am.
<GentileBen> Hmm you should get it today then.
<GentileBen> Y U NO GET UBUNTU FONE??!! D:
<Myrtti> GentileBen: well I'm flashing my old phone with Ubuntu Touch as soon as I can confirm the Nexus 5 works
<Myrtti> I was also poor as a church mouse when the pledges were collected
<GentileBen> Mice have no currency - they barter with their babies.
<GentileBen> Did you get the black or white model?
<GentileBen> I got the white, because I'm moving up in the world.
<Myrtti> black, did consider white for a while but then realised I'll just be covering it up with a cover anyway so it doesn't really show anyway
<GentileBen> There are broadly three groups who buy white phones: poor/lower-class people, girls, and managers.
<GentileBen> I'm only one of those.
<GentileBen> I'll leave it to others to guess which one.
<GentileBen> Myrtti I did like the red bumper, but it's not on sale yet.
<GentileBen> It's unlikely I'll be using a bumper anyway. I look after my phones like Snoop Dogg looks after his homies.
<GentileBen> As an aside - I wish to god it had the same 5.2" screen and 3200mAh battery as the LG G2... :(
<GentileBen> Actually it's 3000mAh.
<GentileBen> N5 has only 2300mAh.
<Myrtti> a van drives to our drive, our little meerkat is up and about to see if the animal in view is edible
<GentileBen> And only 4.95" :(
<GentileBen> You keep meerkats?
<Myrtti> no, fiance works for CTM :-D
<GentileBen> CTM?
<Myrtti> compare the mee market
<GentileBen> Does he do the voiceovers?
<GentileBen> Motion capture?
<Myrtti> no.
<GentileBen> Oh yeah? Well I'm married to RAY WINSTONE.
<Myrtti> first he was playing GTA5, then a van drives over, then he jumps up like a proper little meerkat to see if it's a parcelforce van.
<Myrtti> poor thing
<Myrtti> not every van can be the one bringing the phones
<Myrtti> anyway
<GentileBen> I do that when I have deliveries.
<Myrtti> I already bought one case, the champagne gold coloured one, but I'm considering another with a clear back so I could stick something nice there
<GentileBen> *hears diesel engine approaching* > *runs to street facing side of house* > *looks out window* > *is disappointed*
<GentileBen> The worst looking phone on the market has to be the "gold" iPhone 5S.
<mungbean> http://ubuntuone.com/1LCEePQqRNU5dcHrCPytiI
<GentileBen> I honestly question why any man would buy an iPhone 5S. The screen is TINY for man-hands.
<GentileBen> It's an ideal gift for ladies, though.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: are they maverick meerkats?
<GentileBen> No, they work for the site Compere the Meerkat. It's a meerkat variety show.
<mungbean> this one is MartijnVdS http://ubuntuone.com/1LCEePQqRNU5dcHrCPytiI
<mungbean> fail, same link
<mungbean> *this* one http://ubuntuone.com/6bESHVcMqqbrt3jbB2F704
<GentileBen> This is MartijnVdS with his friends http://lostpr.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/wolrdcup-2006-fans-guardian.jpg?w=300
<Myrtti> anyway - keeping in mind I'm proper disappointed at the lack of a Nexus 5 Yorkshire Tea case, I might just get http://www.amazon.co.uk/RELEASE-Selling-Absorption-Scratch-Premium/dp/B00ESFLIRC/ and stick a Yorkshire Tea box piece between
<GentileBen> Why would you need a shock absorbing case?
 * mungbean has tried to like tea, but its the most disgusting drink known to man
<GentileBen> It's, erm, solid-state storage. No moving parts. IT'S A PHONE.
<Myrtti> because I drop them?
<Myrtti> and it's got glass screen?
<mungbean> because i drop mine on concrete and it surivves
<MartijnVdS> I just don't drop mine
<MartijnVdS> weird, I know
<Myrtti> I dropped my Nexus One and the back popped out a bit
<mungbean> you replace yours too quickly..
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: once every 2 years
<mungbean> better than some people round here :)
<Myrtti> I don't drop mine often, but often enough that I don't want to break it when I do
<GentileBen> I've had my N4 for almost a year and not dropped it once.
<GentileBen> I never dropped my S2 either.
<GentileBen> Or my HTC Desire...
<GentileBen> I've never dropped a phone on anything except carpet.
<mungbean> i run across roads a lot
<GentileBen> I've never dropped a baby either.
<GentileBen> I believe the two are related.
<GentileBen> People who drop phones cannot be trusted with babies.
<mungbean> i generally dont put babies in my pocket
<mungbean> what tool can i use to remove the watch strap pins?
<Myrtti> pin
<Myrtti> sewing pin, notice board pin
<mungbean> too thin it seems
<mungbean> time to hunt for paper clip
<GentileBen> http://memegenerator.net/instance/9161321
<mungbean> have you read the docs on that guardian article
<mungbean> read the tor sucks one today
<mungbean> GentileBen: why do you have "odd" nicknames on irc
<GentileBen> Let's get real here. The only people who used Tor were third-world dissidents, paedophiles and general criminals.
<GentileBen> Oh, and conspiracy theorists.
<GentileBen> As if the government couldn't compromise Tor.
<mungbean> i used tor to get a google music account when it was US only.
<GentileBen> So you were using it as a proxy.
<mungbean> yes
<GentileBen> Tor isn't about privacy....it's about transient obfuscation.
<GentileBen> Works well for dissidents, paedophiles etc. with transient identities online. Doesn't work for normal folk.
<mungbean> most of the docs i read mention "GHCQ do this"
<mungbean> GHCQ generally doing things better than NSA techincally wise
<GentileBen> Germany, France etc. are just upset because GCHQ do it best.
<GentileBen> We were so good, the NSA contracted us to do their dirty work for them.
<GentileBen> I found Germany's outrage at Merkel's phone being tapped hilarious. I can guarantee you that the German sigint agency has tapped comms of other world leaders.
<GentileBen> They were just upset because Merkel was stupid enough to use an unsecured phone to text other world leaders...
<Myrtti> atleast I've not much heard of Sweden
<mungbean> so i watched papillon last night, no wonder hoffman got chosen for rainman. last 20 mins of the film is the rainman character entirely
<GentileBen> Myrtti: no doubt Sweden infiltrated the networks of European sauna makers.
<Myrtti> GentileBen: all the Finnish traffic to outside world goes through sweden
<GentileBen> Every country does it. The US and China are good because of scale and budget. North Korea, Saudi Arabia etc. are good because they're authoritarian regimes with no rights to speak of. GCHQ are good because of skill. Big difference.
<Myrtti> and "The FRA law (FRA-lagen in Swedish) is a Swedish legislative package that authorizes the Swedish Defence Radio Authority to warrantlessly wiretap all telephone and Internet traffic that crosses Sweden's borders."
<mungbean> strange that they run such old versions of windows inhouse
<Myrtti> so...
<GentileBen> Why can't we just celebrate the fact that the British SIGINT agency is easily the best in the world?
<Myrtti> they've been politely quiet about their outrage
<GentileBen> It's like the SIGINT Olympics and we've won most of the golds.
<mungbean> my dog thinks its walkies time everytime i put on my trakkie bottons
<mungbean> sitting there quivering and whining
<spych102> sorry to interrupt this fascinating topic... but how do i order a Dell XPS 13 Developer edition in the UK?
<GentileBen> http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/11/images-from-the-glorious-world-around-us-that-we-never-see/
<Myrtti> spych102: http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd.aspx?s=bsd
<spych102> i did that and then it pressed select and then was told "it's not available online, please contact sales team"
<spych102> which i did and the chap i spoke to couldn't help...
<spych102> maybe i should just order a german one...
<GentileBen> Don't - it'll end up in Poland.
<spych102> huh?
<GentileBen> War joke. Nevermind.
<spych102> that joke got tired like 40 years ago lol
<mungbean> :-|
<spych102> they are our friend now
<spych102> ...or at least they think they are
<spych102> anyway... any more thoughts on how to order one would be appreciate :-(
<spych102> :-)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mungbean> you chatted onine to dell or request callback
<spych102> request call back
<spych102> the guy i spoke to was a bit confused but gave me his personal email and will get back to me during the work week so he was a really pleasant chap... but i'm sure these are available through some strange route..
<mungbean> is this different? http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-l321x-mlk/pd
<mungbean> http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-l321x-mlk/fs
<spych102> yes it has a different processor (i5 instead of i7)
<spych102> and i can't be arsed to install ubuntu...
<spych102> just want it preinstalled
<Myrtti> there's been rumours that they're upgrading it soon, but those rumours have been on for months
<spych102> well the only upgrade that would count would be a better resolution screen...
<mungbean> check the outlet
<spych102> outlet? was ist das?
<mungbean> #dell outlet innit
<spych102> nicht moeglich
<spych102> no matches in product category
<mungbean> out of stock
<mungbean> looking hopeful
<spych102> ah well, my old lappy's got a german keyboard... i can put up with that...
<spych102> what's a swapped Z and a Y between friends?
<spych102> at least it's not french... (the keyboard, i have nothing against our snail eating friends)
<mungbean> azerty!
<spych102> c'est la vie, mes amis
<mungbean> my baby only burps after milk if this is playing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgzS18Vktm0
<mungbean> driving me insane
<spych102> you're playing that to a baby? i'm calling social services...
<constrictor> where are desktop launchers stored?
<mungbean> unity? .desktop files
<constrictor> yeah
<constrictor> thanks
<constrictor> anyone use eclipse?
<constrictor> the menu think does not show up
<popey> morning
 * penguin42 yaaaaawwwwwwwnnnns at popey
<popey> nice lie in â»
<mungbean> bah need to go buy bread
<penguin42> G+ really needs to start sorting posts properly - it's just put Popey's 'Friday 1st November' post to the top of my list
<popey> it bubbles up popular ones doesnt it?
<popey> like fb
<penguin42> popey: It does? Hmm ok but then it's still ahead of your Riddling post that has more +'s and was posted later
 * brobostigon upgrades his nexus7 to cm 10.2-m1 , fingers crossed.
<popey> will nexus 7 get 4.4?
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> all models, as i understand it.
<popey> not galaxy nexus
<brobostigon> nope.
<brobostigon> 4.3 definatly seems smoother compared to 4.2 on nexus7,
<MartijnVdS> 4.4 is super smooth on the n5
<mungbean> i bet
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> the release notes make a lot of fuss about being more careful with memory and some changes for responsiveness
<popey> so i guess its a bit galling to see it not released for the phone that would benefit from that, the gnex
<brobostigon> i reckon there will be a cm release of 4.4 for galaxy nexus, it isnt that old yet. and it fits the requirements.
<GentileBen> It'll take a while.
<GentileBen> CM is pretty US-centric for some reason.
<GentileBen> Also, Android is now becoming Google Play, so underlying Android version is less important.
<GentileBen> Google figured out how to bypass the carriers being cunts: giveplay.apk privs over the entire device and push updates over Play. Simples.
<GentileBen> Also they're releasing components like the stock keyboard through Play.
 * penguin42 does need to upgrade to something a bit more modern; my ZTE Blade is running cyanogenmod 7.x and there's no official newer version
<mungbean> im stuck on CM7 too
<penguin42> on what?
<mungbean> htc desire
<mungbean> bbc click chatting with woz today
<mungbean> he still says "us" referring to apple
<brobostigon> old habit dies hard.
<shauno> joinnnn ussssss
 * dwatkins also has a HTC Desire HD
<dwatkins> in light of the fact Google's apps are forced upon you with Kitkat, I'm not bothered that I'm stuck on Gingerbread / CM7.2
<Nafallo> pfff
<mungbean> kate russell is explaining what a hashtag is
<Nafallo> I've got the Galaxy S2, with Android 4.3.1
<Nafallo> *shrugs*
<MartijnVdS> Dear neighbors, I can understand that you and your friends are excited about getting married, but PLEASE STOP THE NOISE IT'S BEEN 3 HOURS
<MartijnVdS> (of non stop engine revving, horn honking and drum beating)
<ali1234> well at least they are not firing guns into the air
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: only because they can't get them
<MartijnVdS> they must have burned up one motorcycle back tyre
<GentileBen> Myrtti did your N5 arrive?
<Myrtti> not yet
<GentileBen> Mine is still in the MK depot. :[
<Myrtti> "Loaded to vehicle for delivery"
<GentileBen> PARCELFORCE, Y U NO DISPATCH TO DRIVER
<popey> Now TV box getting some love from Sophie watching kids stuff on iPlayer curled up on sofa
<awilkins> What's the clock / calendar applet called? Mine has crashed and I can't be bothered to restart X.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: indicator-datetime/
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ^
<MartijnVdS> but it's a dbus service
<MartijnVdS> that should be automagically started
<awilkins> Ah
<awilkins> Ok, will probably just relog in a bit then
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: try restarting unity
<MartijnVdS> that might bring it back
<mungbean> spent an hour opening bank statements etc from 2011 to present
<mungbean> think im doing it wrong
<mungbean> foudn my v5c form thought \o/
<Myrtti> well bummer. http://www.parcelforce.com/help-information/frequently-asked-questions/track-parcel#9
<Myrtti> oh well
 * GentileBen shares his Maoam with MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> your what?
<GentileBen> Maoam
<GentileBen> M-A-O-A-M
<MartijnVdS> sounds dirty
<mungbean> they are
<mungbean> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/6096788/Haribos-MAOAM-candy-criticised-for-sexual-sweet-wrappers.html
<GentileBen> http://www.bmstores.co.uk/images/hpcProductImage/imgFull/257103-Maoam-Maomix-180g.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: wow that's bad UI
<Myrtti> no kiddin
<GentileBen> I always assumed they had Maoam in Dutchovia.
<brobostigon> GentileBen: they did in germany.
<MartijnVdS> GentileBen: I'm not exactly a candy connoisseur
<mungbean> i love sweets and crisps
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS: I have no cheeses I can offer you.
<GentileBen> Nor am I well-versed in the construction of windmills.
<MartijnVdS> GentileBen: Stereotype much?
<GentileBen> ...
<GentileBen> And I thought you people had a sense of humour.
<mungbean> GentileBen: you didn't answer my question earlier ;)
<GentileBen> Que?
<mungbean> why the "odd" freenode nicks.
<mungbean> raycischarles and gentileben and other jew related ones..
<GentileBen> Oh, that.
<GentileBen> Does there need to be a rational reason?
<GentileBen> Can't we just enjoy my brand of irreverant, risquÃ© humour?
<mungbean> maybe its over my head.
<mungbean> all the crispinthejew and goy stuff
<mungbean> wifey thinks i've had the day off cos she's had the toddler while 've had the 7 month old who occasionally sleeps :(
 * mungbean wiped out
<mungbean> need more haribo
<GentileBen> Maoam is a subsiduary of Haribo Candy Concern.
<mungbean> spotted a custard doughnut on the way to the haribo drawer
<mungbean> i was just wondering what a psychiatrist would say about your humour ;)
<mungbean> or is it psycotherapist, i never remember
<MartijnVdS> psychopath?
<GentileBen> Psychotherapist.
<GentileBen> Sounds like a prisoner's nickname.
<GentileBen> Psycho the Rapist!
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<MartijnVdS> hi mooman
<MooDoo> didn't expect a lot of people in here....no one at bonfire parties?
<MartijnVdS> does anyone have experience with wireless charging (Qi)?
<shauno> MooDoo: it's a bit early for that?
<MooDoo> shauno: you'd think so but I bet there are a lot of firework displays tonight
<MooDoo> there are in our area
<MooDoo> well at least i'm at work till 10 :S
<shauno> still at work too.  but most our bonfires were last week
<Myrtti> ooh ooh I just realised I had Dracula pills in my handbag
<MooDoo> dracula pills?
<Myrtti> salmiakki
<Myrtti> http://www.salmiyuck.com/2010/09/dracula-piller.html
<daftykins> erk
<Myrtti> nomnom
<Myrtti> I've just been told they're not crisps
<Myrtti> and I shouldn't shove three into my mouth at once
<daftykins> seems dubious advice
<Myrtti> indeed
<penguin42> Myrtti: You weren't mixing those in to the trick-or-treat were you?
<Myrtti> penguin42: we escaped to cinema to see National Theatres Frankenstein on Thursday
<directhex> Myrtti, that site is hosting malware, FYI
<mgdm> mmmmm salmiakki
<mgdm> I wonder if there's somewhere in Glasgow I can acquire that
<Myrtti> directhex: oh
<directhex> tells you your java is out of date, links you to a trojan'd fake java installer
<daftykins> directhex: you must be special, i didn't get that :D
<MartijnVdS> it's a blogspot site
<shauno> no red flags here either
<Myrtti> ok, mouth going numb now, stopping :-P
<directhex> i think it's the ad network
<directhex> clicksor.com
<directhex> they're known for it
<ilinux> Hi I have a question
<daftykins> ask away!
<ilinux> Does ubuntu have problems with High speed broadband from BT?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> sounds like you might have a wireless/wired network driver issue
<daftykins> can you detail your system and what exactly is going wrong compared with what you expect?
<daftykins> also someone else will have to answer as i'm in need of food \o/
<ilinux> a colleague accuses me of killing her laptop after installing ubuntu and BT gave her a new high speed hub
<ilinux> lol thanks no was what I was after lol
<ilinux> She says and I quote " I can only get access to wifi at nighttime". How the hell would that work?
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> i demand you get to the bottom of that one! sounds hilarious
<ilinux> Discrimination against linux at it's best :))
<penguin42> ilinux: That's quite good, although there was a great bug where some printers wouldn't print on Tuesday's
<ilinux> we'll let you browse the web but only once everyone else has gone to bed
<ilinux> pmsl
<ilinux> I hope it's not a wireless driver issue as it seemed to be ok before bt changed the hub
 * penguin42 has seen things which wouldn't connect to some ap's but would to others
<penguin42> ilinux: If you can force it to 2.4GHz rather than 5 I'd certainly try it
<ilinux> It gets better btw. The line engineer told her that she couldn't stream LF because Linux couldn't stream so he installed Chrome.
<penguin42> LF?
<ilinux> when she told him she had been watching it before, he said and again I quote "that's illegal, you're obviously stealing your neighbour's bandwidth"
<ilinux> Love Film with Campholio's fix
<ali1234> i have a rule
<ali1234> if you let BT monkeys touch your equipment, i won't fix it
<ilinux> iches or cm?
<ilinux> Nice one. Nor TT
<ilinux> I refuse to phone TT about internet issues as they say and again "We don't support Leenux" When I say well how the hell have I been using it <click>
<ali1234> why do you even tel them
<ilinux> I don't usually. I say windows, get the response then ask hey what about Linux?
<penguin42> ilinux: Say you just use it from a tablet - don't have any computers....
<ilinux> true
<ilinux> Does anyone have Ubuntu 12.4 running on BT high speed BB?
<daftykins> "Hi, I'm having trouble with your service. I am using an etch-a-sketch connected to lego mindstorm kits which is driven by an arduino."
<daftykins> s/is/are/
<ilinux> lol
<penguin42> daftykins: Have you tried clearing the display?
<popey> evening
<MooDoo> evening alan
<daftykins> hi mr.popey
<daftykins> i was somewhat confused when in Brighton the other day, to see in a local Maplin store a humongous box purported to be a 'raspberry pi starter kit'
<ali1234> what is confusing about that?
<daftykins> the box was 2 feet wide, by one high, by about 4 inches depth
<ali1234> it has a keyboard in it
<daftykins> it said a mini one :D
<daftykins> i think the set was ~Â£90 too
<ali1234> http://www.maplin.co.uk/raspberry-piandreg-board-and-starter-kit-652805
<daftykins> 70-90ish
<daftykins> ah full size
<daftykins> well thanks for ruining the tale ali1234
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> you do need quite a lot of stuff to make the raspberry pi useful
<daftykins> it's more amusing that such a small board comes in such a box
<ilinux> like a tv
<ilinux> I have one in a matchbox in the cupboard
<ilinux> I cut slits in a swanvesta box fot the ports
<ali1234> http://www.maplin.co.uk/raspberry-pi-pro-kit-783586
<daftykins> hrmm, a halogen bulb only lasted me 7 months
<daftykins> seems a bit disappointing
<ilinux> the kb has a button with Win written on it. Sould have a raspberry
<daftykins> i wonder if those ancient porcelain fuse wire consumer boards cause blows more regularly
<ilinux> Can I just rtn to my post please. Does it sound like an isp issue that she has with intermitent connection or a driver issue as she has 12.4 on a 5yr old laptop?
<daftykins> if it's a laptop, can using a network cable be a good test to rule out wireless funkiness?
<penguin42> yeh I like wires, you can see where the packets are going
<penguin42> ilinux: As I say, I have seen wireless issues specific to combos of laptops and access point and distro, so yes it's possible
<daftykins> yep cabling for the win
<ilinux> Hope she doesn't want me to buy her a new laptop :(
<ilinux> Can we all chip in?
<penguin42> ilinux: If you can tell the hub to only do 2.4GHz you might have a better chance - but how does it fail?
<ilinux> I don't know she was sketchy. but will speak to her more on Monday
<penguin42> ilinux: Yeh so that's the important think to nail down; what's the problem exactly, can you gather any logs, and is it really wifi specific
<daftykins> and try lovely cables
<ilinux> Problem is I can't go to her house to check
<daftykins> just a quick wired test would be wondrous compared with hours of wifi fiddling
<ilinux> true
<daftykins> can't invite yourself over? :D
<daftykins> what made you reinstall someone elses system with Linux anyway 0o
<daftykins> i'd never force it upon someone
<ilinux> lol hours of fiddling might get in the way of finding the problem :P
<daftykins> hence trying a cable is ace \o/
<penguin42> ilinux: Do you have any remote access setup or anything where you can get any info from it?
<ilinux> I love Linux. I have done it for about 30 satisfied people now
<penguin42> ilinux: But family is hard!
<ilinux> I'm also a masochist
<penguin42> yes, that helps
<shauno> tends to help if your victims are masochists too :/
<ilinux> I only pick out the sadistic ones
<ilinux> they give me more pain
<shauno> today's lesson .. if you lose something that has velcro on it, it's stuck to a part of your body you can't see.
<penguin42> ouch
<daftykins> shauno: hahaha
<mgdm> git checkout master
<mgdm> errrr
 * daftykins throws code at mgdm
<GentileBen> Oh my god, Alan "dumbass" Shearer just said Aaron Ramsey's been the best player in the Premier League this season.
<GentileBen> He's a terrible pundit and has no insight to offer - just clichÃ©s.
<mgdm> Isn't he perfectly qualified, then?
<GentileBen> TouchÃ©, mgdm.
<ali1234> the thing about arsenal is they always try to walk it in
<ali1234> is there a reason why unity-design mailing list hasn't seen a post for over a month?
<ali1234> and what mailing list can i use to try to get some eyes on the dbusmenu problems?
<Myrtti> ooh. https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AdeOshineye/posts/ZqAKmsMLM23
<ali1234> sounds cool
<shauno> the speakers list looks a bit odd so far
<ali1234> never heard of any of them... why odd?
<shauno> looking through http://www.ticosa.org/Site/Programme.html
<shauno> perhaps it's just the descriptions, but only one, maybe two of them sound remotely ontopic
<ali1234> yeah i was expecting when they said "ancient" code
<ali1234> more like, "how to recover code from tape reels" and stuff
<ali1234> not "how to deal with the spaghetti code you wrote last thursday"
<AlanBell> oh, I was expecting a bit more cobol era stuff
<ali1234> kids today...
<AlanBell> not stuff found in version control history
<mgdm> I've seen him speaking a couple of times
<mgdm> (including a conference I helped organise)
<mgdm> quite interesting, both times
<shauno> who?
<mgdm> Ade (the guy whose G+ account it was on)
<mgdm> (He works on G+ alongside a couple of folk I know, FWIW)
<penguin42> hmm, I've done actual stuff with *old* code and can be somewhere between interesting and disgusting
<shauno> it sounds like an interesting topic, I think we just have differing ideas of "Archaeology"
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> I've done a few projects where I've got dragged onto projects to resurrect them after the previous guy left maybe 18months earlier and you have to figure out how things work, and then find yourself tracking a bug down to a comment made 10 years earlier;   I've also had to do things like build ancient Motif on modern systems
<shauno> eg, I was reading recently about how a few bugs in the lunar module's flight computer were caused by having two 400Hz AC power busses, but no-one ever specified that they should be in phase with each other.  but the software expected this
<mgdm> did you see the thing about the PS1 recently?
<mgdm> gamasutra.com/blogs/DaveBaggett/20131031/203788/My_Hardest_Bug_Ever.php
<penguin42> shauno: Haha that's a great one
<shauno> this one .. http://www.doneyles.com/LM/Tales.html
<shauno> interesting read.  things like having to write it so that you can reboot at any stage and it'd pop right back where it left off
<penguin42> mgdm: Bad story - it doesn't really tell you what happened!
<mgdm> better than your story :P
<shauno> funny enough, I got there from finding the source for the landing guidance on googlecode.  and finding the comment "temporary I hope hope hope" sat there 40 years later
<penguin42> haha yes
<penguin42> shauno: The transcripts from the Apollo missions are good - very much more like normal guys/engineers - lots of 'if I was building this damn thing...'
#ubuntu-uk 2013-11-03
<penguin42> shauno: Scary picture of their chunk of listing
<shauno> hah, yeah.  "still small enough to fit in one listing"
<penguin42> shauno: I'm guessing as in one box of fanfold
<shauno> yaknow, I don't miss fanfold.  I had a whole tonne of paper that was green & white striped fanfold, with the perforated truck strips on the sides, in landscape
<shauno> and I could never, ever, convince my printer to match the line-height of those green & white lines.
<AlanBell> suspect I still have some in the loft
<ali1234> man... that old fan fold paper with the green stripes on it
<AlanBell> and a 132 column dot matrix printer
<ali1234> shauno: yeah, exactly... what were they for anyway?
<shauno> I suspect it was a test for OCD
<AlanBell> I always thought it was something to do with accountants liking them
<ali1234> http://www.pdp8online.com/images/greenbar.shtml
<popey> i used to set a job going over night, if it failed it would end up with a proper mush of green/white fanfold
<penguin42> all the fanfold I ever used was just plain white
<penguin42> shauno: No, the OCD is what happens when you're left with a pile of fanout with detachable holes, and you gently sit there peeling them off and tearing them up. Ahem
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning MooDoo
<dwatkins> allo allo
<MartijnVdS> The Nexus 5 seems to be very light on battery usage
<MartijnVdS> Just did an hour-long run, with GPS on, and battery was still at 96%
<dwatkins> I gather new phones don't need to use full power for the GPS.
<MooDoo> oooo thinking of getting one of them myself
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's gotten better through the years :)
<MartijnVdS> it also has some kind of offloading chip for sound output, lowering battery use when playing music
<dwatkins> ah, it's an Android 4.4 feature
<dwatkins> "The feature is designed to poll sensors less frequently on the Nexus 5, but Google is partnering with chipset makers to make it available on other devices."
<MartijnVdS> it's full of nifty tricks :)
<dwatkins> I still can't believe they had to partner with Nestle, perhaps they couldn't think of a pudding beginning with 'K'.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the original name was to be "Key Lime Pie"
<MartijnVdS> but nobody could remember that, I guess
<dwatkins> haha ok
<dwatkins> What's next, Android Lion Bar?
<MartijnVdS> who knows :)
<MartijnVdS> Lion Bar, M&M, Nutella
<dwatkins> Androidn 6.0 Marathon [after they rename Snickers back again]
<MartijnVdS> they could do Raider, then 2 versions later Twix
<dwatkins> Opal Fruits
<MartijnVdS> Not all of those have the same name internationally though
<dwatkins> indeed
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: people on reddit were suggesting L to be "Lollipop" or "Lemon Meringue Pie" 8-)
<dwatkins> It'll be Lion Bar, I reckon.
<MooDoo> not sure about that, too close to osx lion
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and OSX Mavericks isn't too close to Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat?
<dwatkins> ah yes, perhaps Life Savers or Licorice Allsorts.
<MartijnVdS> , it may contain emulsifiers such as soy lecithin and flavors such as vanilla.
<MartijnVdS> In most of the, it may contain emulsifiers such as soy lecithin and flavors such as vanilla.
<MartijnVdS> uhh.. what did my mouse just do?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: ok good point :)
<dwatkins> paste stuff?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Life Saver would be a great name :)
<dwatkins> Mavericks is a silly name, as it starts an entirely new theme, when the animals one was going great.
<MartijnVdS> they sort of ran out of big cats
<dwatkins> It's like naming your servers after Star Trek characters, then suddenly switching to constellations.
<MartijnVdS> sure the ocelot was still available, except Ubuntu took it
<dwatkins> There are plenty of more awesome creatures... http://imgur.com/r/Otters/jN93zpe
<MartijnVdS> but.. not cats!
<dwatkins> I'm working up to cats.
<dwatkins> oh was it cats? I thought it was just animals.... hmm
<dwatkins> Leopard, Tiger, yeah I see it now
<dwatkins> Why not switch to dogs, then?
<MartijnVdS> CATS: All your base are belong to us. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Aybabtu.png
<dwatkins> haha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: depressed, and my eczema is bad, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm at work....still it's not too bad here
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :( :)
<popey> quiet day â»
<MooDoo> yeah, people still recovering from last night probably lol
 * MartijnVdS is a bit exhausted from running earlier
<brobostigon> i am still in shock, kate gave me back her engagement ring, last night.
<popey> oops
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: :(
<MooDoo> brobostigon: oh no :(
<brobostigon> it was a good 6 months, nonetheless.
<MooDoo> :(
<brobostigon> :(
<nigelb> brobostigon: :(
<nigelb> popey: I was a bit surprised not seeing your name in the CC nominees :)
<meraj> helo i am new to ubuntu and want to install wine  can you plz help me
<popey> oh?
<popey> meraj: sure, if you ask your question
<popey> oh, you did â»
<popey> meraj: sudo apt-get install wine
<nigelb> Or look for wine in the software center
<meraj> ubuntu  13.10 i have wine in my pen drive  and want to install
<popey> nigelb: i've already served on the cc in the past, stepped down to focus on other things, then got hired by canoical
<meraj> that code is not working
<popey> meraj: what happens?
<nigelb> can you pastebin the output?
<meraj> says unable tp locate package
<meraj> tp is to
<MarquessDeBonBon> MartijnVdS are you dressing as Zwarte Piet this year?
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get update     . then try again.
<popey> meraj: is the machine you're installing wine on connected to the internet?
<MarquessDeBonBon> http://www.sinterklaasfabriek.nl/project/userfiles/sinterklaas-en-zwarte-piet.jpg lol Holland
<meraj> no the code not working some index file faile to download
<meraj> no its another computer
<popey> meraj: can you connect the machine to the internet?
<meraj> says could not resolve security.ubuntu.com
<meraj>  my net setter is not being shown in that
<meraj> how to connect
<meraj> else i have to switch win7 of that laptop to connect
<popey> meraj: http://askubuntu.com/questions/974/how-can-i-install-software-or-packages-without-internet-offline
 * popey goes for lunch
<meraj> explain em sir i am unable to solve it
<MartijnVdS> meraj: The best chance is to get that machine connected to the internet. Does it have a wireless chip? Ethernet port/
<MartijnVdS> ?
<meraj> ok am tryng
<MartijnVdS> meraj: That's doesn't answer the questions: what kind of machine is it? Does it have wifi? Does it have ethernet?
<MartijnVdS> (is it a laptop? a desktop? something else?)
<meraj> it has wifi and is laptop
<MartijnVdS> meraj: and the network icon is not in the top right?
<MartijnVdS> meraj: you might get more/faster help on #ubuntu
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: https://plus.google.com/photos/113770755938741426586/albums/5941851279821101745/5941851282157336802?sqi=104613975513761463450&sqsi=f519a7cd-31d2-4c2a-a6a1-f3bb617eb0fd&pid=5941851282157336802&oid=113770755938741426586
<mungbean> wow hideous url
<MartijnVdS> wasn't there a P2P network called that?
<brobostigon> i must be sad, watching ghostbusters on ch5.
<mgdm> brobostigon: no, that is the very opposite of sad
<mgdm> Ghostbusters is brilliant
<brobostigon> :)
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: yeah, there was
<MooDoo> mgdm: just don't cross the streams
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: .. eww?
<mgdm> good advice for any situation
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: eww? have you not seeing ghostbusters?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I have :)
<moonracker> hi guys - where can i get technical support on ubuntu 13.04 video issues?
<MooDoo> ask
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<MooDoo> ;)
<moonracker> !patience
<lubotu3> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com/ or http://ubuntuforums.org/ or http://askubuntu.com/
<DJones> Maybe !details would be a better factoid
<DJones> !details
<lubotu3> Please give us full details. For example: "I have a problem with ..., I'm running Ubuntu version .... When I try to do ..., I get the following output: ..., but I expected it to do ..."
<DJones> Rather than scaring somebody away
<DJones> Or pointing them to #ubuntu
<MooDoo> raaaaaaaaa i'm not scarey
 * DJones suggests looking in a mirror :)
<MooDoo> :p
<DJones> I've seen photo's NEVER AGAIN
<MooDoo> well i did warn you
<DJones> :)
<Myrtti> meh, I can't find a keyboard that I'd like
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hello-Kitty-Keyboard-Mouse-Kit/dp/B0086VY8BM
<Myrtti> erm no.
<shauno> eww, AZERTY
<AlanBell> shauno: yeah, that was the only problem I could see with it too
<mgdm> I think those autoresponder things in the bot are counterproductive
<mgdm> granted I'm not the most useful person around here at any one time
<AlanBell> mgdm: yeah, some of them can be at times (some are dead handy)
<AlanBell> mgdm: which factoids would you remove?
<AlanBell> http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu&search=&order=popularity%20DESC&page=0 !ask is the top of the list, used just over 30,000 times
<MooDoo> so are we saying we shouldn't use !ask?
<AlanBell> not really, just having a chat about the usefulness of factoids
<MooDoo> ah ok
<Uldics> Hi!
<AlanBell> hi Uldics
<MooDoo> hello Uldics
<Uldics> I know this is walking on edge. But simple and sincere things. I am bonified now. I wish to install Windows 7 on my Ubuntu box, just for games. I have the sticker and all the legal stuff is orrrighty. The hurdle seems to be in MS way to get people legally to their OS. It seems impossible. First I tried downloading (from official distributor) an ISO file of Win7 PRO. It would not even start installing from USB flash - it finds disks, can delete
<Uldics> and create a partition to install on, but when it comes to installing, then its all halfsix and nothing is possible - it can not even find its own created partition. That seems rather strange if I may only use polite words. Then I bought the obsolete form of empty media - DVD-R, burned same image to it and can install. But the legal PC can not accept the registration, the key is not good - I have Win 7 PRO OEM sticker, which has no ISOs
<Uldics> available. So it can be installed, but not registered. What a bummer. So I need an ISO editor on Ubuntu. But I can not get it, as the ISO is UDF. How can I do it, oh Lord_
<AlanBell> can't say I have tried to install anything newer than XP
<MooDoo> normally I do it the other way around, install windows first then ubuntu....
<AlanBell> perhaps the folk in ##windows could help you, it just isn't a problem we are likely to know the answer to
<Uldics> The problem now is to get editing UDF
<Uldics> windows first then ubuntu I know, the stupidest system first :D
<MooDoo> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1559374
<Uldics> I have unplugged all other disks when installing W7
<Uldics> That forum post have been on, no help
<Uldics> isomaster doesn help
<Uldics> that is exactly what I want to do, delete that one file
<Uldics> but my system only shows a txt with text that this is udf system
<MooDoo> I think you just need to "ubuntu edit udf iso" search for that in google, there are loads of pages regarding it
<Uldics> AlanBell: The #windows people do not know anything about othe file systems than fat32 and ntfs
<Uldics> loads of pages, but any good? Will try now
<Uldics> hehe, all pages been on :D :(
<AlanBell> seems there have been a few attempts to support UDF, but not that great, and no longer really supported
<Uldics> ok, that explains
<AlanBell> just not a particularly valuable problem to solve I guess
<AlanBell> http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-udf/ somewhat abandonned in 2008
<Uldics> then what the hell, just need to download the illegal version and keep on
<AlanBell> http://www.bitwizard.nl/udf/ stopped in 1998
<MooDoo> isn't downloading the iso of windows ok as long as you have a valid license?
<AlanBell> you would have to ask Microsoft
<Uldics> it is, but you can not get an image of OEM version
<Uldics> MS says, you just buy, NOW!!!
<Uldics> have been on their forums
<MooDoo> well you sholdn't need to as you mentioned you had a valid oem license...
<Uldics> exactly
<MooDoo> strange....
<Uldics> thats why I need to manipulate their ISO to remove one file, so it accepts also OEM key
<Uldics> it is to mee too indeed strange
<Myrtti> please tell me that the roundabouuts feel not so horrible if you're driving and not the passenger
<MooDoo> ;)
<mungbean> anyone used acetoneISO ?
<mungbean> Uldics: might help you
<mungbean> AcetoneISO will let You mount typical proprietary images formats of the Windows world such as ISO BIN NRG MDF IMG and do plenty of other things.
<Uldics> hmm, I think I have it, but it didnt help, will check right now
<Uldics> got it mounted, thats a step forward
<Uldics> but just after unsuccessful point and click , which gave a correct terminal command to get it
<Uldics> now the question gets, how to get it changed and still bootable - it mounted it only read only
<Uldics> I understand I can just copy files to a new folder
<Uldics> but when I will try to make a new iso, it will not be 1. UDF and 2. bootable like normal W7 DVDs
<Uldics> or should I forget the UDF and make new bootable DVD (plain ISO) with unetbootin?
<AlanBell> or use a real operating system :)
<Uldics> yes, I am using, just wanted to play some games since I have got a hold of a PC with legal sticker
<Uldics> and the newest games arent ready for Linux
<Uldics> not that I dont like it
<Uldics> its much better than MS
<MooDoo> nothing in steam Uldics ?
 * AlanBell doesn't really do games
<AlanBell> my son was getting me to help on some lego thing on the PS3 earlier, I kept flipping characters or something, I could barely work out which one I was supposed to be controlling
<popey> bless
<popey> just finished playing minecraft with the kids
<DJones> popey: Have you  seen Laura's map since a reset, its interesting
<popey> no
<popey> haha, that is odd
<popey> http://sass.shmoo.com/snowflake that one?
<DJones> Seriously odd, Yep, thats the one
<DJones> Spiders web
<popey> http://popey.mooo.com/home/#/24/64/248/-5/0/0 is our little home
<popey> oh, map not updated
<MooDoo> that's changed a bit from the last time I looked at the map
<DJones> Laura wanted Savanah, so we kept exploring till some was found
<DJones> I made a 22,000 block walk northwards, took ages :)
<Uldics> MooDoo: The game I am fan of is not on Steam, unfortunately only on DX
<Uldics> So Wine, Playonlinux and so on is not optional
<mungbean> can anyone recommend a good and economic(lol) colour multi finction printer for my mum?
<popey> mungbean: printware.co.uk have price per print for all their printers i believe
<mungbean> great, cheers
 * DJones gives up on Canonical/Ubuntu answering a question on askubuntu, basically, we've changed our policy, but have no idea how it will affect users, we haven't thought that far ahead
<daftykins> what was the question?
<DJones> daftykins: If you're using 12.10 how will you upgrade in February 2014 & onwards, 13.04 goes EOL in January 2014, but 12.10 not until April 2014, so if you use 12.10 and don't upgrade to 14.04 before January and then to 13.10, how will you upgrade in future?
<shauno> hopefully the answer is a nice simple "we won't turf 13.04 off the mirrors the moment it's EOL, so you can upgrade to one and then the other"
<daftykins> don't the repos stay available, just slightly more awkward to update with? when a release goes EOL
<DJones> Thats what you would hope, but trying to get somebody to confirm it is impossible
<shauno> they stay available on old-releases.u.c, but they're rarely expired off the main mirrors the moment they're EOL
<DJones> Answers so far have been to manually amend your sources list to oldreleases etc, but for the new/inexperienced users thats not a good reply
<shauno> usually it's a few months later when people who meant to upgrade but put it on the backburner completely forget about it, and then act surprised when apt-get goes blank
<DJones> shauno: Yeah, but 3 months?
<daftykins> hehehe
<DJones> I honestly don't think the people who decided to reduce lifespans actually though the consequences through
<DJones> Its a one off, won't happen against after 12.10, but, now is too late to be making a decision about it
<daftykins> i still come from the old school thinking that 'upgrades' are risky and go funny :D
<daftykins> but then i don't run Ubuntu on the desktop anywhere really, that would give me any exposure to how well it works
<shauno> I only have ubuntu-desktop in VMs, where it tends to get delete because it's boring, long before it needs upgrading
<diddledan> eww @ pink re: the hello kitty keyboard from earlier
<diddledan> the keyboard doesn't offend me other than that and the azerty layout
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-27
<ali12341> i was thinking about the clocks changing
<shauno> I think they just went back 24 hours?
<ali12341> so my question is this: can unix tzdata handle a timezone where seconds are 0.023% shorter for half the year, and 0.0023% longer for the other half?
<diddledan> err
<shauno> ali1234: I mean this in the nicest possible way.  when you become earth's evil overlord, I'm leaving the planet :)
<ali12341> i was thinking about what you'd do if you had no clock
<shauno> I think that's been tried?  we just got up when it got light and went to bed when it got dark?
<ali12341> right, my conclusion is if the sun rises earlier each day, you'll get up earlier each day
<ali12341> if you get up earlier you go to sleep earlier
<diddledan> what about those of us that don't respect daylight?
<ali12341> which effectively means each day is slightly less than 24 hours
<shauno> it's not that linear though?
<ali12341> then when the daylight hours get shorter you are getting up later each day, so the days are slightly longer
<zmoylan-pi> just remember when you become evil overlord there's a todo list.  a real time saver :-) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList
<shauno> I think redefining seconds would cause more problems though
<ali12341> yes. better to make days +/- 20 seconds
<ali12341> that could be adjusted to match the change in sunrise times
<shauno> I mean, I thought it was crazy that australia have a "and a half" timezone
<ali12341> effectively i'm proposing a time system where sunrise is at a fixed time instead of noon
<ali12341> this would mean timezone would depend on latitude as well as longitude
<shauno> yeah, I was just thinking that.  noon's easy because it's constant
<shauno> you'd have timezones shaped like sine waves
<ali12341> if tzdata devs think they have it bad now...
<shauno> I still have to contemplate that the easiest way for them to handle this proposal, would be to hire a hitman
<diddledan> I think we should all be on atomic time
<shauno> diddledan: I've seen your pic dear.  You're not an atom.
<diddledan> none of this futsing about with leap-seconds and daylight saving
<shauno> honestly, I'd be happy if they could even get europe & north america to switch daylight savings at the same time
<shauno> instead of this weird mess where we're now 4 hours ahead of new york.  for a week or two.
<diddledan> I'm betting that's a real pain point for you supporting the us from eire
<shauno> it's mostly painful for them :)
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> we do 6am-6pm no matter what.  they're the ones that end up doing 2pm-2am for a week or two  (or three in spring)
<shauno> I understand the current mess - it's normalized to lattitude (europe is a lot further north than it feels like)
<zmoylan-pi> i'd be happy if they got rid of summer time as the farmers are a smaller % of workers now
<shauno> (barcelona is further north than NYC, for example)
<shauno> now that I think about it, ali's timezones wouldn't be sine waves, they'd just be diagonal versions of what we have now
<shauno> kinda.  until you hit the equator.  and then I run out of think.
<diddledan> they'd be sine waves if the change was 0.023% per day
<shauno> I'm just thinking that as you head south, so sunrise comes later (in the summer at least), you can compensate by heading east
<shauno> what's really awkward is that would be reversed in the winter, they'd lean the other way
<diddledan> oh god, that would be we'd have different length of day for the north compared to the south
<diddledan> and seconds wouldn't align
<shauno> nah.  let's be realistic.  you'd just continue to pretend the north doesn't exist.
<diddledan> I mean hemispherically
<shauno> well, timezones are already wider at the equator
<shauno> I think the pi's going to work tomorrow.  it's a bank holiday, I can get away with it :)
<zmoylan-pi> put it in a big desktop calculator case :-)
<shauno> I figure if they didn't want me to take retropi to work, they wouldn't have given me a 4:3 monitor :)
<shauno> diddledan: re book .. watch http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2281159/  :)
<diddledan> wtf
<diddledan> that looks fun
<shauno> it's a zombie movie from the zombie's pov, basically.  it's a trainwreck.
<shauno> but there's one scene in particular that's uncomfortably close to what you just described
<mapps> god damn
<mapps> so much for my 100mbit
<mapps> speedtest shows 13.8mbit..yet im paying for 100
<diddledan> yeouch
<diddledan> that's sloow
<mapps> yep
<mapps> 75 pounds a month for 100
<mapps> so il have to call them and have another fun conversation
<diddledan> maybe neighbours are swamping the local node
<daftykins> is this real world speeds or just speedtest.net? 'cause that site blows
<mapps> speedtest.net
<mapps> and my samsung rv520 laptop isnt working..turned off and now display wont come on..laptop turns n then off like after say 10seconds
<mapps> annoying as i did buy a new laptop before i came herebut left it in theuk
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> why on earth are you awake :/
<mapps> homeland time
<mapps> yay
<mapps> wonder whats wrong with my rv520..really annoying :(
<mapps> only got my netbook now which i love but its small for watching tv on
<daftykins> i'd just fully strip and reassemble
<daftykins> run minimal hardware, see what happens
<mapps> yea
<mapps> il have to do it back in UK
<mapps> not got anything here so cant take it apoart etc
<daftykins> =[
<daftykins> i never like having situations and being away from my tools
<mapps> yea
<mapps> it sucks
<daftykins> in fact i went to England once without any of my USB flash drives and regretted it
<mapps> thats why i hate moving or livng abroad really...cant being everything
<mapps> bring
<daftykins> so many situations came up
<mapps> yea
<mapps> afty still awake?
<shauno> I've never really had that.  when I moved to the US, I took a suitcase.  when I came back, I brought the same suitcase
<mapps> how long did you stay there for
<shauno> 5 years
<mapps> wow nice
<shauno> moving there was funny though.  I was 20, so simple priorities.  stuck my PC in the suitcase.  filled the insides of the tower with books so bits wouldn't shift around too much
<daftykins> i'm alive
<shauno> and then shoved enough clothes in the suitcase to keep it padded :)
<shauno> (and took the harddrives as carryon because I didn't trust the baggage monkeys)
<mapps> u took a big pc?
<shauno> heh, sure
<shauno> that was 2001.  a laptop was a big deal for a 20yo back then :p
<daftykins> ;D
<shauno> it wasn't even a good PC :/  but it went through hell with me
<mapps> heh
<mapps> how much did it weigh? you managed to fit in youir allowance for case?
<shauno> I honestly have no idea.  mum figured all that stuff out :)
<mapps> :)
<mapps> howcome you guys are always up so late
<shauno> I went to bed, nothing happened, so I got up again
<shauno> I get stuck in this loop where I go to bed late when I have to be up early.  and then can't sleep because I worry that I won't wake up on time
<daftykins> eek!
<daftykins> i just don't have anything to be up for tomorrow
<daftykins> and keep staying up watching the Baseball world series ;|
<shauno> I work at 6 :/
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> you're close now!
<mapps> hahaha thats the kinda thing id do shauno stay up late then like uh cant sleep i may oversleep ll
<mapps> you work from home?
<shauno> nah, I've got a proper job :p
<daftykins> time to bail on the waking world i think
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> nn gents \o
<mapps> nn mate
<shauno> night
<OERIAS> mmm bangers and tea
<shauno> good lord man.  bangers and mash!
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> morning MooDoo
<diddledan> sorry about the delay
<MooDoo> no worries i was on early
<MooDoo> yay someone got nic bonding working on 14.04 lts  server using my post :)
<diddledan> well done
<MooDoo> lol simple things eh lol
<diddledan> is that 802.1ax or the linux-only variant?
<diddledan> .1ax is fairly recent in terms of spec
<OERIAS> bangers
<OERIAS> mmmm
<knightwise> yo peeps
<diddledan> lo
<knightwise> hey diddledan how are you today
<diddledan> hunky dory ta
<knightwise> same here
<knightwise> allthough I have quite a bit of work to get through reinstalling my dual booted macbook air :(
<knightwise> Yosemety update killed my dual boot ability so i had to completely nuke and pave back to mavericks
<knightwise> And I had it pimped out so nicely
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> sucky
<dutchie> morning
<diddledan> what isn't sucky tho: http://jupiter.bowlhat.net:1888/map/%23ubuntu-uk (note that the data isn't fully loaded yet)
 * diddledan been playing over night
<diddledan> did I kill him?
<diddledan> ello dutchie
<MooDoo> any one know of any decent p2v tools?  besindes vmware convertor, which I'm using at the moment?  it's for a 14.04 LTS server.
<davmor2> MooDoo: why you after me
<MooDoo> davmor2: wasn't, not that I can remember why
<davmor2> <MooDoo!~paulmello@fedora/moodoo@#ubuntu-uk> That's the ones :D   davmor2 I'm after you sir! :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: last night around 10:00 by the look of it
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah i remember now, on brobostigon's stats, you're the one above me on most talking irc users
<davmor2> MooDoo: ah let me guess popey is number 1
<MooDoo> yeah but no surprise there really ;)
<davmor2> Oh and Morning all
<popey> morning all
<popey> diddledan: you sure that's -uk?
<davmor2> speak of the devil
<popey> looks more like #ubuntu to me
<davmor2> morning popey
<popey> yo
<popey> good flight back?
<davmor2> popey: yeah pretty uneventful and no ripped jeans this time \o/
<popey> heh
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how you rip jeans on an airplane...
<MooDoo> probably jumping over all the seats to get at the screaming kid ;)
<zmoylan-pi> or travelling as luggage and getting caught on baggage carousel
<davmor2> on the newark flight in I was on like the worlds smallest plane, must of been about 5'11 and about 4'6-5' where the luggage rack came I had the window seat and the arm had a bit sticking out of it.  I'm 6'2 so because of the weird angle I was at to get into the seat my jeans got snagged on the bit sticking out of the arm
<MooDoo> :(
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> how wide are seats on aeroplanes nowadays?
<foobarry> do they fit american butts?
<brobostigon> unlikely.
<popey> there isn't a universal butt
<foobarry> butts are wider now than in the 70s though, surely
<popey> the ones on the A380 are nice
<popey> the plane i was on is 6 months old
<foobarry> a380 airbutt
<brobostigon> airplane chair, with butt massager.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> we were very nice to the stewardesses
<popey> so we kept getting topped up with booze and food on the flight
 * popey â¥ BA
<brobostigon> :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy 110th birthday to the New York City subway! :-D
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<JamesTait> popey, I wish I'd worked the travel agent harder and got a BA flight. United charge extra for alcoholic drinks with your meal. :(
<popey> ugh
<popey> i ended up having 6 bottles of plonk
<bigcalm> 75cl bottles?
<popey> airplane bottles
<bigcalm> Aww
<popey> also she slipped us a bacon sarnie she nabbed from club class as we were coming in to land
 * JamesTait makes a note to travel with popey next time.
<zmoylan-pi> the bacon sarnie, king of sarnies
<popey> me and will tend to pm eachother 24 hours before the flight to book our seats â»
<dwatkins> did someone here run a page called "pimp my spice rack", or did I dream it?
<JamesTait> I did the same with davmor2 for the Malta sprint, but we were on different flights this time.
<foobarry> dwatkins: alanbell
<dwatkins> thanks foobarry - I couldn't find the link
<brobostigon> they should make a dr who spinoff called "pimp my tardis!!"
<dwatkins> brobostigon: there's probably a subreddit for that
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> but if you change the appearance of the tardis, is it still a tardis?
<foobarry> yes, just a new series ;P
<dwatkins> aha, it's "Rate my spice rack", found it!
<dwatkins> the site no longer exists, however
<zmoylan-pi> way back machine have it?
<davmor2> JamesTait: we need to  work that better next time :)
<popey> hehe, http://imgur.com/ryMubA8 "This British Street is all set for Halloween"
<davmor2> popey: oh scary
<shauno> hm, I'm missing something
<davmor2> shauno: I'm waiting for popey's pic of here's an american street ready for halloween
<davmor2> shauno: they take it a little more seriously over there
<zmoylan-pi> uk has moved it's celebration to nov 5 for guy fawkes night
<MooDoo> in my village, it seemed it was 5th november last night
<foobarry> "moved"
<foobarry> MooDoo: diwali?
<popey> i let off some fireworks we've had for 2 years on saturday
<MooDoo> no just some prat in a garden setting off fireworks at 9pm
<popey> only quiet ones that sparkle
<zmoylan-pi> well guy fawkes night has masks and fireworks and bonfires like halloween
<foobarry> "you car is in v good condition. just some minor bits. that will be Â£125 please"
<shauno> I actually liked halloween in the states.  our town had this cute thing where the shops all put an orange card cut-out of a pumpkin in the window
<shauno> and then on halloween, the kids all go and trick'or'treat just those stores
<shauno> it was overly cutsey, but highly effective.  no more hiding upstairs with all the lights out
 * zmoylan-pi fills in the scorpion pit... :-)
<directhex> skip trick or treating; play Costume Quest instead
<directhex> better for your teeth!
<MooDoo> shauno: we do that in our area, if there is a lit pumpkin outside, you can trick or treat there.
<shauno> I do miss that
<shauno> here I just hide my wheelie bins and shut the lights out
<shauno> ireland's in an odd position where they basically want a 'bonfire night', but they don't have/recognise the 5th.  so halloween becomes defacto bonfire night, fireworks are smuggled across the border, etc
<shauno> and combining "trick" with "bonfire" isn't always ideal
<foobarry> sent a contractor a gz of a large file 260MB. he was struggling to read it, then i realised 1) he hadn't gunzipped 2) he was doing the windows user fail of opening the whole file in a text editor
<JamesTait> davmor2, did you see the toy store in Tysons Corner Center (sic) where they moved all the toys into the store room and re-stocked with Hallowe'en stuff instead?
<foobarry> windows mentality. must open entire file to search for string
<davmor2> JamesTait: that was the Mircosoft store you were looking at wasn't it
<JamesTait> davmor2, oh no, I was too busy next door in the Tesla store....
<zmoylan-pi> we've always had a bonfire night, it might go back to ancient tradition of putting out all fires once a year and sharing a single flame from tara
<shauno> right, and it's likely the same here.  but the uk has a current outlet for it, here they really don't
<zmoylan-pi> well we have bonfires on halloween
<zmoylan-pi> lots of them
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't been to a part of ireland that didn't have bonfires
<shauno> that's what I mean.  the uk has a seperate night for them.  here they just get bundled in
<knightwise> there
<knightwise> system reinstalled :)
<knightwise> Stupid Yosemite update ..
<knightwise> breaking my dual boot ... hrrmmpphh
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<knightwise> had to redo both my ubuntu and my osx install ..
<BigRedS> Oh, yosemit's the new OSX. that's not a cat
<knightwise> Yep
<funkyHat> Neither is Mavericks
<knightwise> I went for Elementary as my linux distro this time
<knightwise> its fast and it looks good
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, I missed that one
<knightwise> even if its based on 12.04
<BigRedS> Is that the OSX clone?
<knightwise> "clone" is a big word
<knightwise> but its a light and elegant distro based on 12.04
<BigRedS> Is that the one that looks like OSX? :)
<knightwise> had it installed on my wifes imac for a month before she noticed it
<knightwise> yes , it does look like osx a bit
<BigRedS> haha
<knightwise> its pretty though.
<knightwise> and fast .. fast is important
<knightwise> lighter then unity , better looking then lxde
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't find Unity that slow, except the start-button search thing
<BigRedS> but, generally, I'm still amazed by Crunchbang's ability to not make me swear at my computer all the time
<brobostigon> gnome3 is definatly faster in that respect.
<BigRedS> at making you swear at it?
<BigRedS> :)
<BigRedS> yeah, I can't remember what put me off Gnome3
<OERIAS> one here tried Ubuntu Mate?
<knightwise> I don't actually care what window manager i'm using. mostly I hide the dock / unity launcher and use a keyboard launcher like Kupfer to start all my apps
<knightwise> OERIAS: i have , its fast .. stable .. and it feels very very retro
<OERIAS> knightwise, it might actually make stop complaining about ubuntu
<brobostigon> no, the app search thing, BigRedS
<OERIAS> now that it has a gnome 2.x desktop
<Azelphur> Mozilla gave me a free Flame, aww yis
<BigRedS> yeah, that's why i was fine with Unity, but I found the weird way you get told about unread mails/jabbers unworkable
<knightwise> I'm looking forward to the next version of elementary to be honest.
<OERIAS> i just ubuntu would have made a flavour a whole lot sooner
<knightwise> its very "sober" but that is just what I like about the distro
<OERIAS> back in 2011
<OERIAS> of course
<knightwise> btw : have any of you checked out Chromixium ?
<OERIAS> no i haven't
<OERIAS> tell me
<knightwise> ubuntu on the bottom , chromeOS up top based on Chromium
<OERIAS> nice
<OERIAS> does it have access to chrome store?
<davmor2> knightwise: why not just drop x altogether and just use the terminal ;)
<knightwise> come on .. terminal-only discussions are soooo 1995
<davmor2> knightwise: and your gui is from 1996 right ;)
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> i dont think a terminal only interface for a linux DESKTOP is feasable anymore
<knightwise> for a server perhaps.. Terminal + webinterface is all I use for my servers
<knightwise> but on my desktops ?
<davmor2> knightwise: well I was talking about you personally :P
<knightwise> hmmm.. i love using terminal apps for their speed and the low bandwith they use (i'm hotspotting my phone a lot)
<knightwise> But I don't know if I could use them exclusively
<davmor2> knightwise: I'm guessing that there is only really the browser you need x for right so you could throw that in an unconfined lxc container and have that run x for you done ;)
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> the nice thing about chromixium is that you can always have that one app available that you don't have in chrome
<knightwise> like for example something like filezilla or something
<knightwise> but running complete X is a waste of resources , i agree
<BigRedS> knightwise: what do you use a web interface for on a server?
<BigRedS> webmin style things?
<knightwise> webmin
<knightwise> and things like plex , bittorrent sync, calibre, transmission .. all of those thing run via web interfaces
<BigRedS> ah, I was thinking more traditional servery things
<BigRedS> that's a little more like shifting desktop apps off to a server and using a webui for them
<BigRedS> you're in the cloud, man
<knightwise> Private cloud :)
<dutchie> wow, gnome-shell is slow
<dutchie> and cpu heavy
<knightwise> not my cuppa tea :)
<dutchie> yeah, i'm usually happy with unmity
<dutchie> unity
<dutchie> but decided to see what i'm missing
<knightwise> dutchie: that bad ?
<dutchie> what's that bad?
<knightwise> Gnome3
<dutchie> i think if it didn't keep dropping frames it'd be ok
<knightwise> hmm..
<knightwise> I'm getting all of my apps together here , mostly everything works , aside from runnign the latest version of Evernote under wine
<dutchie> i might even prefer it to unity
<dutchie> but it loses v hard in performance to that
<dutchie> i'll give it a go this week i think
<dutchie> also i've managed to get a white box stuck on the screen
<dutchie> one of those old-school right-click menu glitch type things
<BigRedS> yeah, I don't recall why I preferred Unity to Gnome 3. They're really similar in lots of ways
<brobostigon> i prefer gnome3's workspace implementation.
<foobarry> does gnome3 still suffer from the issue where if you update it, you have choice to disable extensions or wait until all your extensions are updated?
<foobarry> i tried it for about 6 months
<foobarry> extensions were necessary, but they did not cohabit nicely and crashed gnome a lot
<dutchie> idk
<dutchie> i typed "apt-get install ubuntu-gnome-desktop" then logged out and back in with the "gnome" sessino
<dutchie> i used to use g-s before unity even existed
<dutchie> used to compile it out of git every week
<brobostigon> same here.
<brobostigon> i simply use gnome3 directly from debian experimental now.
<BigRedS> 'simply' :)
<brobostigon> :)
<dutchie> brobostigon: on ubuntu?
<dutchie> there much of a diff?
<shauno> less naked people :(
<brobostigon> dutchie: on debian sid,
<dutchie> brobostigon: what are you doing in here then?!?! ;)
<brobostigon> dutchie: i use ubuntu as well, in various forms.
<foobarry> naked
<shauno> have you seen the debian 'community'?  don't banish him :(
<foobarry> they are friendly if you have a grey beard
<shauno> I have a grey beard.  I'd still disagree.
<dutchie> joking aside, is gnome-shell actually a fast moving project still?
<dutchie> this laptop should definitely be able to run it comfortably
<dutchie> model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4600U CPU @ 2.10GHz
<brobostigon> yes, and yes.
<dutchie> maybe it's just indexing stuff or something?
<popey> whats slow about it?
<dutchie> alt tab switcher, swapping workspaces
<dutchie> it's sitting at 85%+ cpu in top
<foobarry> gnome3 was horrific for that
<foobarry> mind you, unity dash is slow to pop up too
<diddledan> popey: you were right about http://jupiter.bowlhat.net:1888/map/%23ubuntu-uk it was showing #ubuntu's map - something messed up in the json cronjob. it seems fixed now
<dutchie> not so much in my experience
<dutchie> aha
<dutchie> chrome -> settings -> use system title bar/borders
<dutchie> and it all runs beautifully
<popey> foobarry: i fixed that by switching off active blur
<OERIAS> GOOD MORNING CALIFORNIA!
<popey> \o/ new tv ordered
<OERIAS> Today is a beautiful day for the folks in the beautiful city of Diamond Bar CA
<foobarry> popey: yes, got a lot better after that as i recall
<OERIAS> 57 freeway both North and South is congested
<foobarry> any x2go users in here?
<popey> no idea what that is
<foobarry> its a type of nxserver, freenx
<foobarry> remote desktop app
<popey> ahh
<knightwise> foobarry: i played with it , didn't get it to work the first time though.
<foobarry> have a bit og a problem with a session
<foobarry> :(
<knightwise> its interesting to have at home. give kids / wife / gran a Linux T
<foobarry> stuck in suspend mode. user wants to save the session
<knightwise> hmm.. im afraid that is beyond my knowledge
<foobarry> yeah, was just checking . the freenode channel is dormant
<foobarry> so my wet piece of string got replaced by openreach
<foobarry> internet isn't any faster :(
<diddledan> grr
<shauno> diddledan: heh, that graph's kinda snazzy.  I got a wee star!  out there on the edge of the galaxy with nae pals  lol
<diddledan> shauno: it'll re-jig the positions when you refresh - the json just says who's connected to who and the browser decides how to render that
<shauno> I can't help suspecting it's a little biased though.  we don't use names so much at 5am when there's only 3 people awake.  it's much easier to imply who you're talking to  lol
<foobarry> ls
<shauno> You are in a folder of twisted passages, all alike
<foobarry> rm -rf DonkeyP*
<shauno> You have no DonkeyP*
<foobarry> phew
<bigcalm> Anybody finding that app windows aren't always updating correctly until they are moved off screen or something is moved over them?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yes. sometimes. video windows
<MartijnVdS> reboots help then
<MartijnVdS> oh or gimp
<MartijnVdS> restarting gimp several times fixes it sometimes
<bigcalm> This is happening in gedit, terminal, firefox
<bigcalm> Thankfully it hasn't happened in my IDE yet
<foobarry> thought saturdays dr who should have been on cbbc
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: yeah it was very Sarah Jane Adventuresish
<foobarry> albiet with a couple of swear words
<foobarry> everything else was age apprpriate
<foobarry> for 7 yr old
<MartijnVdS> easily recut
<davmor2> foobarry: why would you remove DonkeyPopMusic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDeQT9zCvi4
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, I had that for ages
<BigRedS> no idea what fixed it, but there's one or two bugs on Launchpad about it
<bigcalm> Odd
<ali12341> probably a compositing bugs
<ali12341> try turning off the compositor
<MartijnVdS> ali12341: killall unity?
<popey> Afternoon all.
<daftykins> heya
<MartijnVdS> howdy popey
<Azelphur> Gah, firefox os doesn't support any bluetooth tethering :(
<popey> That's okay! Neither does Ubuntu â»
<Azelphur> popey: ...yes it does, I use it all the time
<popey> Ubuntu phone?
<Azelphur> Ubuntu desktop, dunno about Ubuntu phone
<ali12341> lol, nobody cares about unbuntu phone
<ali12341> i too have used bluetooth tethering with the desktop however
<popey> "nobody"
<ali12341> although to be honest you are better off using wifi hotspot
<daftykins> i can honestly say that i never use bluetooth for anything
<Azelphur> ali12341: but wifi hotspot drains the crap outta your battery
<Azelphur> bluetooth tethering is much better
<ali12341> not really
<Azelphur> ...yes really? XD
<ali12341> it's the mobile connection that drains the battery
<foobarry> bluetooth useful for handsfree in the car
<ali12341> far more than anything else
<Azelphur> ali12341: I leave bluetooth tethering on 24/7 on my phone and just connect as required, it works great. Could never do that with wifi hotspot
<foobarry> tether to what?
<Azelphur> foobarry: Nexus 5 to Laptop/Nexus 7/...
<foobarry> u do it to save battery, or save data?
<Azelphur> foobarry: bluetooth tethering instead of wifi has no difference on data, so battery.
<directhex> it's the screen that rats the battery!
<directhex> eats
<Azelphur> lol
<foobarry> the rats eat my battery
<foobarry> something weird going on with my phone
<popey> watched a youtube video about replacing batteries in those USB external battery things recently, looked easy enough
<foobarry> few nights ago , 10% battery was lost on airplane mode few nights in a row
<shauno> poor rats.  batteries are not yummy!  (although oddly, the contents of a lipo cell *smell* delicious)
<foobarry> also, i'm down to 500MB free and android stops syncing and generally breaks because no free space
<Azelphur> popey: I have 3 of those, they are so handy
<Azelphur> At MozFest I was like the phone charging guy, I rescued like 7 people :)
<brobostigon-quas> use something like storage analyser foobarry, to work out where space is being used, and what you can delete to free up space.
<popey> this one claims 1200mAh, but reckon I can put a much higher capacity one in it
<Azelphur> I said like way too many times in that sentence, I hope I'm not devolving into a teenager.
<shauno> I have an odd collection of those too.  I figure when the zombies come, my phone will last longer than the phone network.
<ali12341> i only found out a couple of days ago that android has a built in caller blacklist now. or maybe it's a cyanogenmod feature
<Azelphur> popey: I have a 12,000mAh one, it's awesome.
<foobarry> brobostigon-quas: the issue is that i actually have 500mb free
<foobarry> so why android complain?
<popey> i have a 13000mAh one
<popey> this is a tiny single cell jobbie
<popey> (I have a few too)
<Azelphur> ah I see
<Azelphur> popey: I wanna get one of the ones that do laptops too, that looks really handy.
<shauno> I have one of those, but .. it won't connect to my laptop  heh
<popey> yay, just busted it open
<brobostigon-quas> foobarry: it should stop you before the fs fills up entirly, just like *buntu does, so you cant fill it up entirly, and you have a non-functioning FS. hence it warns you at that point in time.
<foobarry> however i now have non funcitoning OS at 500mb free
<foobarry> so not much point really
<ali12341> if the disk was completely full it would not even boot up
<foobarry> unless i delete stuff i don't receive emails , messages etc
<Azelphur> popey: speaking of charging things, I wanna get one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Charging-Desktop-Station-SmartIC-Technology/dp/B00L2SBZ80/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
<Azelphur> 12 amp...so 6 ports at 2 amps, shiny.
<brobostigon-quas> yes, android disables functions that could be potentially affected by low fs space.
<shauno> atm I have this chap for my phone.  22000mAh and I can't fault it yet - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00F5Q4F0U
<foobarry> . Android reserves 500MB of storage but continues to include that 500MB in the available count, even though it's not actually available.
<foobarry> sucjs
<foobarry> should have bought a 16mb phone
<foobarry> suddenly apps use loads of data
<foobarry> in earlier android, not so much
<foobarry> google search ..60mb
<foobarry> of data
 * popey amazons for 18650 batteries
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/5000mah-Rechargeable-Battery-Ultrafire-Flashlight/dp/B009TRS5V6 should do it
<popey> haha, reviews say "no"
<shauno> yeah.  unbranded chinese batteries are essentially "mystery meat"
<popey> heh
<shauno> it ends up being a whole lot of pot luck.  the number printed on them tends to have nothing to do with capacity, but how much they think you'll pay for something with that number printed on it :(
<popey> the powerbank ones I have came "free" with a kickstarter
<shauno> lol, I like this one .. " however, they do work and hold a charge"
<shauno> it's like "well, they are technically batteries, so it wasn't a complete lie .."
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> I've recently bought lipoly and li-ion batteries, and I've not for a second considered buying anything else than the Adafruit ones
<Myrtti> (for my Arduino projects)
<foobarry> chinese batteries cause ebola?
<shauno> put it this way.  I have a few cheapies.  they sit in my fireplace when I'm not using them.
<MartijnVdS> I have.. http://www.amazon.co.uk/15000mAh-Portable-External-Battery-Motorola-Black/dp/B00D5T3QK4/
<shauno> lipo that aren't nursed perfectly tend to have two failure modes.  they either inflate like balloons, or they spontaneously combust
<shauno> (when you see phones that split themselves open like clams, be happy they picked the more noble death)
<brobostigon> cool, i am connected to same byobu + irssi instance with two machine, and both connections mirror the same thing.
<foobarry> i hate BST->GMT week
<foobarry> awake since 5.15am
<foobarry> kids didn't get the memo
<popey> my kids have alarm clocks in their rooms which observe DST
<foobarry> what about in their body?
<popey> a wise investment
<popey> what about it?
<popey> the rules say "stay in bed till 7am"
 * brobostigon has spotted his mp, sir tony baldrick on bbc parliament.
<foobarry> my baby is 19months
<popey> heh
<foobarry> so she wakes up and cries
<daftykins> brobostigon: whom!?
<foobarry> my son (4) was playing marble run from 6.30, thats ok
 * popey ponders what to make for the kids for tea
<brobostigon-quas> daftykins: sir tony baldrick, aka, sir tony baldry.
<popey> ooh, pitta breads
<davmor2> popey: food, I'm guessing food is what they will mostly want ;)
<popey> thinking probably a nice toasted pitta filled with cheese & salami maybe
<popey> i fancy a tuna melt one
<davmor2> popey: well I guess it's food enough that they'll like it ;)
<popey> had chilli for lunch which led to clean plates
<popey> ooh, actually, could put some chilli in pitta with cheese
<popey> that would rock
 * popey saves that for tomorrow
<davmor2> popey: man you need to get a dishwasher and stop licking the kids plates clean ;)
<mapps> HOW handy ee wont gibe me an unlock code
<mapps> even after say i can after 6 months..total pain
<n1md4> hello.  any one with experience of installing linux on an intel mac-mini
<directhex> mapps: ee filled with lies? shock, gasp, etc
<n1md4> when booting install CD the system hangs at "select cd-rom boot type" it actually appears the keyboard doesn't function at all at this point.
<zmoylan-pi> i had that happen, press the menu button on the apple remote at that point
<zmoylan-pi> it was because the apple keyboard i was using wasn't the 'right' apple keyboard according to the mac mini
<zmoylan-pi> i wasn't installing linux just trying to make the mac mini boot from the supplied cds to reinstall the os
<mapps> yep pretty annoying tho
<mapps> it says after 6 months can get a code
<mapps> called up twice..and no better off
<n1md4> zmoylan-pi: hmmm now i've gotta find the 'right' keyboard ;)
<n1md4> I don't have the remote anymore either
<zmoylan-pi> borrow one?
<n1md4> heh
<zmoylan-pi> took me a few days and a few 100 reboots to work that out :-)
<zmoylan-pi> drove me bong-kers :-D
<n1md4> i can get to the boot menu, and the linuxmint disk presents itself as 'windows' which i found amusing
<daftykins> n1md4: you're trying to install Mint, or?
<n1md4> any linux really
<n1md4> i have some success, it seems to depend on the 'boot policy' on the installer
<n1md4> eg maddog linux 32bit seems to be booting
<n1md4> and crungbang seems to too
<daftykins> well we don't help with non-Ubuntu
<daftykins> so you need to be aware of that right now
<n1md4> wow
<n1md4> i'd usually found this channel to be quite friendly
<n1md4> and often wander off topic
<n1md4> okay .... bye
<daftykins> it is, but if you want $other_distro support, we're on a network with channels for all of those?
<daftykins> what an idiot
<mapps> heh
<mapps> hm
<mapps> running apt-get install is really slow on my pi
<zmoylan-pi> how much space do you have on the pi?
<directhex> pi is terrible at IO
<directhex> and many SD cards are garbaGE
<mapps> yay cgiirc working..so i can irc at work
<shauno> tsk tsk tsk
<mapps> hm not sure but it seems slower than my pi at my house..coulkd it be because i overclocked mine and this isnt
<shauno> they could be entirely different classes of SD card too.  they're a many varied bunch
<zmoylan-pi> which is a bit of a weak link for newbies
<czajkowski> so anyone coming along for a drink or a bite to eat this wednesday in Surrey ?
<dutchie> would do if i wasn't busy that evening :(
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend any reasonably high spec/decent >=17" laptops that are cheap? :P
<Azelphur> and yes, I know I'm probably asking for a unicorn
<shauno> I think you already know the answer .. "pick two"
<Azelphur> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> cand if you're lucky get one :-)
<dutchie> haha excellent
<dutchie> https://twitter.com/VictoriaCoren/status/526845095010922496
<celesteh> Hi, I accidentally deleted my certificate authority for StartSSL from firefox and now I can't log in to half the internet. How do I fix this?
<daftykins> what's the file path?
<celesteh> I don't know, this happened via the gui
<daftykins> celesteh: not sure if those are specific to firefox, but the package ca-certificates might be reinstallable as an option
<celesteh> daftykins: thx, will try that
<daftykins> np
<celesteh> hm, no luck, even after reboot
<daftykins> celesteh: what was your command for the above package?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-28
<celesteh> Somebody in the #firefox channel pointed me in the right direction
<daftykins> oh? was it a purge reinstall of firefox?
<celesteh> No, if you delete the CAs, after firefox restarts, they come back, but are left with no authority. If one goes to advances preferences and edits them, they can be turned back on.  I didn't think to check this, as I assumed clicking 'delete' would have deleted them.
<daftykins> ah :D
<daftykins> strange to have the access to delete them in the first place if they never truly leave
<ali12341> you probably don't have access to delete them if you installed firefox from a package... that is probably why they come back
<mapps> hey all
<mapps> or anyone stll up;p
<mapps> guess noone hm
<mapps> no daftykins  or shauno..shocked
<czajkowski> aloha
<zmoylan-pi> put all your clocks back then czajkowski?
<MooDoo> howdy czajkowski et all
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: aye indeed
<czajkowski> MooDoo: howdy
<zmoylan-pi> just seemed a little early
<czajkowski> hens and dog are up
<czajkowski> no rest for the wicked
<zmoylan-pi> hens and dogs didn't put their clock back
<czajkowski> hens get up super early and lay
<czajkowski> :/
<czajkowski> when they lay they tend to tell everyone they're up
<czajkowski> fireworks last night set Bash off :/
<zmoylan-pi> you can get tranqs for pets this time of year.  freaks some of them out
<czajkowski> I think it was just we were unprepared for it
<czajkowski> thought it would be on nov 5th
<zmoylan-pi> usually for 2-3 weeks before for halloween here but since they started massively fining fireworks users has died out a fair bit
<czajkowski> it's so weird to be at your grocery shop and just have a fireworks section
<zmoylan-pi> well ireland... would have made it too easy
<zmoylan-pi> more fun getting them illegally
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Animation Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<davmor2> JamesTait: oooooooo cracking cheese gromit </wallace_impression>
<nigelb> JamesTait: Hello, it looks like you're trying to use IRC today!
<nigelb> Too cheery for Clippy?
 * JamesTait throws davmor2 at nigelb. :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: I'm 16stone you're what 10, and you are picking me up :P
<JamesTait> davmor2, probably closer to 12 after last week. :-P
<nigelb> how much is one stone again?
<JamesTait> nigelb, 14 pounds. ;)
<JamesTait> nigelb, and a pound is 16 ounces. :)
<MooDoo> i'm lots of stones
<nigelb> That didn't help. I had to convert 14 pounds into kg :P
<JamesTait> nigelb, 1kg = 2.2 pounds.
<nigelb> Right, so I'm ~14 stones.
<nigelb> Need to get rid of 3 of 'em.
<zmoylan-pi> stick your leg in tiger enclosure?
<dogmatic69> lol
 * MooDoo is a few more stones...
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, that would be one way... maybe a tad drastic, but effective.
<nigelb> not *that* desperate either
<zmoylan-pi> but you'd have a story that would get you free beers for rest of your life :-p
<dogmatic69> Rapid weight loss is never good, would not be very healthy loosing the entire leg in one go. Better to start with a foot and work up...
<zmoylan-pi> so a boa constrictor...
<nigelb> zmoylan-pi: my friend who works on wikipedia gets free beer everywhere.
<nigelb> If I tell someone I work on ubuntu, I might get a laptop with no sound or something thrown at me instead :P
<zmoylan-pi> students are forever om their debt
<zmoylan-pi> *in
<ThomasRedstone> weight loss is only what you're measuring, not what you actually want though ;-)
 * JamesTait chuckles at nigelb
<nigelb> I have to admit, we're way better.
<nigelb> I remember when I started some computers would have wifi or sound issues.
<nigelb> They days, most laptops just work on linux.
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm now surprised when things don't work
<BigRedS> but I'm not sure if that's my conservative taste in hardware, better consistency from hardware manufacturers, or better support in Linux
<nigelb> 27
<nigelb> (gah)
<directhex> that's numberwang!
<popey> Seems there may be a new xps 13 on the horizon...
<brobostigon> i am going to kill apache for a minutw, to work out a ram problem, so the stats will be off for a moment.
<popey> I doubt anyone would notice â»
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> yep, it was apache, it was hogging ram, and lagging the whole server.
<BigRedS> That's normally a good reason to not do anything clever with logrotate
<BigRedS> restart all of apache every night, tidies up after leaky sites
<brobostigon> i just did that, it hasnt helped things,
<BigRedS> How did you deduce that Apache was using all the ram?
<directhex> apache hungry! omnomnomnomnom
<brobostigon> a combination of top htop ps and load
<directhex> mainframes are weird.
<BigRedS> and now that apache's restarted it's appearting to use a load of memory again?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> directhex: you porting mono to s390?
<directhex> popey: nah, it's worked on s390 for years. am building stable packages for it though
<popey> ahh
<BigRedS> brobostigon: is it a few children using loads of memory, or just loads of processes sat around hogging it
<BigRedS> for the latter its' often a slow external resource (like the DB) and the children are all just sat there waiting on responses
<directhex> popey: using Hercules to emulate a box, as i can't find a way to pay for an s390x VM
<popey> that must be s l o w
<directhex> popey: 11 hours compiling so far...
<popey> yup
<brobostigon> BigRedS: both, so i am reducing apache's processes and see what happens.
<directhex> 9 hours for the dpkg messing about, plus 2 so far for the class library
<popey> directhex: they're powerpc?
<BigRedS> well, more of your visitors will not get responses
<directhex> popey: no. mainframes have their own processors.
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z/Architecture
<brobostigon> BigRedS: yes, however not that many people use it, therefore, i wont worry yet.
<directhex> popey: access to POWER servers is a separate unresolved issue
<BigRedS> Apache doesn't just generate business for its children, though. If you've several processes doing things, then that's because some visitor has asked them to
<popey> now ubuntu builds for power, surely we have PPA access to them for building?
<directhex> popey: only for canonical staff. and that's only for 64-bit little-endian ppc, which is "new" & doesn't cover most existing PPC installs in the wild, which are big-endian
<popey> ahh
<directhex> and you can't run a big-endian chroot on a little-endian kernel. rage.
<directhex> you can get a ppc64el cloud VM for about $30 a month
<brobostigon> thats helped, its still using laods of ram, but the load is definatly lower.
<BigRedS> it's probable that whatever code's running the site just uses loads of memory
<brobostigon> yes.
<BigRedS> then it's a problem for a web developer and I can't help :)_
<brobostigon> yep.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<popey> yo
<BigRedS> morning!
<MooDoo> just read about ubuntus openstack that you tweeted about....interesting :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: howdo
<MooDoo> hello davmor2 how are you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: mostly tired
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i bet....
<MooDoo> davmor2: but did you acheive all you wanted to at the us sprint?
<davmor2> MooDoo: no I found a bug that stopped me doing it didn't get fixed till the Friday :)
<MooDoo> booo but yay for getting it fixed
<SuperMatt> beep boop
<MooDoo> bless you
<davmor2> SuperMatt: is a bot in disguise
<davmor2> MooDoo: my big worry is that you understood that as a robot sneeze and didn't expose him as a bot, Now I'm concerned you might be one too ;)
<MooDoo> no human i am.
<zmoylan-pi>  everything i say is a lie MooDoo :-p
 * zmoylan-pi waits...
<MooDoo> so you don't don't lie?
<zmoylan-pi> absolutely :-)
<zmoylan-pi> for sure for sure
<Myrtti> "Lucasfilm classics come to GOG.com" http://www.gog.com/
<directhex> only 33% for linux so far. SCANDAL
<directhex> i should buy the lucas games. it's more honest than the scummvm data packs i've been lugging around for a decade
<davmor2> MooDoo: doing impressions of yoda doesn't make you human ;)
<MooDoo> Turing test time ;)
<popey> hmm, would those packs be usable in scummvm?
<directhex> popey: good question. gimme 5 mins.
<popey> at the sprint last week someone got scummvm working on ubuntu phone
<popey> which would be fun
<davmor2> popey: I'm pretty sure there is a scummvm portable for android so if it uses those controls that should be okay for most games :)
<popey> well, it had to be ported to mir
<directhex> /opt/GOG Games/Sam And Max Hit The Road/scummvm/scummvm_x86_64
<directhex> does that answer the question?
<popey> lolz
<popey> yes
<davmor2> directhex: maybe, could you be a little more precise though? ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: are you being feisty? or just feeling gutsy?  ps you're looking dapper.
<davmor2> MooDoo: nicely done
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i was raring to say something....quite breezy actually.
<davmor2> MooDoo: You sound a little saucy if you do it in public though, as edgy as it can be it will start to become hoary and warty finally, and any raring and vivid reader would tell you as much :)
<popey> weirdos
<popey> oh no, that's 15.10
<davmor2> popey: haha
<MooDoo> davmor2: you taking something, you're sounding a bit lucid
<davmor2> popey: Weirdo Weebles
<diddledan> I finded a bug in chrome-ios
<diddledan> \o/ me
<diddledan> I'm awesome!
<diddledan> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=427933
<daftykins> diddledan: will you get moneys?
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> daftykins: it's not security hole unfortunately :-(
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> ah they're security alone, ok
<daftykins> figures.
<daftykins> i just clicked and started reading :>
<daftykins> how are you today sir?
<diddledan> I'm good ta
<diddledan> ooh, someone just updated the ticket
<diddledan> changed the label
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> i didn't know chromium was on iOS
<diddledan> it's a weird frankenstein I believe
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> is it on the App store?
<diddledan> it's using the ios webview but they've fudged it to allow support for things that the ios webview doesn't -- like webp images
<diddledan> it's on the appstore as "google chrome"
<daftykins> diddledan: moar replies!
<diddledan> bah, he sucks
<davmor2> MooDoo, popey: you both might like this https://play.spotify.com/album/5ufeHHYtjfinUjlPHRUcO8
<popey> not clicking that
<davmor2> popey: seriously it is just a nice compilation cd promise
<popey> http://cdn.arwrath.com/1/115242.gif
<davmor2> popey: when have I ever lied to you about good music :P
<shauno> davmor2: why am I listening to Albatross?
<diddledan> shauno: you really should learn not to click random links on the internet - you'll get cooties
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> but but but ..
<zmoylan-pi> worse, you'll catch windows!!
<diddledan> shauno: that's your trouble - buts
 * diddledan ventures into potentially family-unfriendly places
<zmoylan-pi> an apple store?
<davmor2> shauno: because it is an excellent piece of music :P   not to mention the other tracks on the album :P
<davmor2> shauno: as to why it started on Albatross no Idea I just clicked on share and paste the link for MooDoo and popey who I thought would also appreciate the music
<shauno> I appear to have immunity to windows :)  (although I'm getting the hang of putty!)
<shauno> my other favourite "windows workflow" is to put things into dropbox so I can mutilate them with sed/awk/etc and send them back
<shauno> but it's not really that bad once you've found a way to a) get out of it, and b) get your files out of it
<daftykins> dropbox or Windows? ;)
<shauno> heh, windows
<daftykins> all i know is you don't get in the way of someone's workflow
<daftykins> so i don't try and convert people.
<daftykins> my mac client couldn't work out how to zip a few files the other day, so that and some other reasons have her wanting to jump ship to Windows
<shauno> I guess it'd help if it used the verb 'zip' instead of 'archive'
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> and she didn't have a messy desktop so that trying to demo creating one, there was no idea as to where the result went
 * brobostigon wonders if google/android fit is compatible with his pebble.
<maps|wrk> hi all
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> o/
<maps|wrk> sup daftykins
<daftykins> not much here mate, getting the winter blues from it being dark early :/
<maps|wrk> :((
<maps|wrk> so tomorrow il call gibtelecom
<maps|wrk> should be un fun
<daftykins> ^_^
<maps|wrk> my 100mbit is only getting 20mbit..done tests at several times of the day etc
<daftykins> do you just have to shout "ENGLISH!" at them until they put someone on that can speak it? :>
<maps|wrk> i dont expect 100 but more than 20 ;p
<maps|wrk> nah they speak english and spanish in gibraltar as normal
<daftykins> ah
<maps|wrk> its more a case of speaking to clueless fools
<maps|wrk> like when you phone an isp in the uk
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> i was over my mates yesterday because his ADSL was meant to have been activated, but it wasn't
<maps|wrk> my sky isnt the 90mbit i pay for..(the sky im on atm) but cant phone from abroad really
<daftykins> when the support person kept following the stupid script ideas about resetting the router i was getting very ragey
<daftykins> but i wasn't the one on the phone
<maps|wrk> yea thing is, i was told 100mbit from 24th we got connected on like 18th and it was 4mbit..i guessed temporary
<daftykins> yeah perhaps until profiles update or something, what kind of tech is it using? coming into the property over fiber, or?
<maps|wrk> then she said 100mnbit from 24th well its like 20..dunno if  its an error or simply like theyve got my account wromng..when i phoned before she didnt know what speed i should be on (as my net wasnt meant to go live till 24) said i hadnt signed for ANYTHING but 100mbit and she says 'oh well 100mbit from 24'
<maps|wrk> so what was i paying for before then and meant to be getting?>
<maps|wrk> yea they say its fibre
<maps|wrk> got some technicolor router thing cant remember exact model
<daftykins> if it's going into the phone like that's VDSL and won't hit 100Mb
<maps|wrk> they had to come in and change the phone socket tho..sky's better..sky dont have to as their router includes everything thats needed
<daftykins> *phone line
<maps|wrk> bt had to come and change my dads socket
<maps|wrk> gimme a sec il find link
<daftykins> no, the Home 500 sockets are far better than using filters
<shauno> my favourite isp story is still sitting there with the win98 sounds folder loaded up in xmms for when Charter wanted me to reboot.  I figured out it was easier to fake it than to fight the script
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's great
<maps|wrk> LOL
<maps|wrk> i like it
<maps|wrk> daftykins:  https://www.gibtele.com/fibrebroadband/
<daftykins> i'd just say i had them turned off, 'cause that's what i did in 98 era
<shauno> I tried explaining a few times that if there's not enough lights on the modem, the router can't find internet and my debian boxes cease to become relevant
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> it turns out the correct answer is "okay.  done that, what now?"
<daftykins> i was trying to get my mate to say there's no damned line sync last night
<daftykins> so no point resetting routers and "avoiding going on the web admin for 15 minutes"
<daftykins> also lol  at that last bit.
<daftykins> because an HTTP request hitting a router will clearly make it throw its' toys out of the pram
<maps|wrk> you looked at the url daftykins
<daftykins> maps|wrk: yeah but it's not exactly technical. mentions FTTN
<maps|wrk> si
<maps|wrk> clown company
<daftykins> doesn't say whether you can get it where you are
<maps|wrk> what do you mean?
<daftykins> er, doesn't mean* rather
<daftykins> "Most local addresses are no more than 400-500m away from these sites, ensuring that SuperSwift fibre broadband speeds are available throughout."
<daftykins> did they speed test your premises to say it could be had?
<maps|wrk> yea when i was there they saud they checked toi see if i could get 100mbit
<maps|wrk> but did they really....
<shauno> I gotta say, my current isp have been great for that.  the only time I've need to call them, they used the magic words "hang on, I'll find someone who should know what you're talking about".  win!
<daftykins> maps|wrk: the key thing here is to look at what speeds your device is actually syncing at, not what speed tests say
<daftykins> shauno: XD
<daftykins> yeah i got that when i called in to report packet loss
<daftykins> got transferred away from the newb helpdeskers
<maps|wrk> whats the chance someone at work could see what im doing without actually viewing my pc as i type? -- im using ssl https://frogs.zapto.org 0- the site is run on my server in my room and uses basic user/pass -
<daftykins> though nobody ever phoned me to say they fixed it, i just saw it drop one day and came back ok
<shauno> that was exactly it.  I was trying to describe how pinging google was bouncing between, eg, 18, 3000, nope, back to 18, back to nope ..
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> lovely jitter
<daftykins> maps|wrk: i was being told of workplaces just the other day that strip SSL and intercept employees SSL sessions
<daftykins> but who knows
<maps|wrk> hmm
<daftykins> if there's risk, you shouldn't be doing it over their infrastructure
<maps|wrk> is it likely ythey could and how would i know? it still shows that its using ssl
<shauno> ours do that :/  everything comes in signed with zscaler
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> that'll be why your colleague uses that 3G modem and Pi combo then?
<daftykins> :>
<shauno> well, that's specifically because ssh is blocked  heh
<maps|wrk> i use ajaxterm
<maps|wrk> just updating my trusty old dell atm
<maps|wrk> :D
<shauno> our only outbound access is via proxy.  the same proxy that re-signs everything.  and there's no "getting around it" because there isn't a route
<daftykins> nasty!
<maps|wrk> re-signs?
<shauno> I have a little mifi that I use with my own laptop.  he has a serial cable to his pi, dressed up in white so it really does look like multiplayer notepad
<daftykins> certificates
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> maps|wrk: you can actually query these Technicolor routers for their line sync via UPnP queries, as the web admin doesn't reveal them.
<daftykins> you don't have a working PC though do you?
<maps|wrk> yea i do..my trusty old netbook :D samsung nc10 :D
<maps|wrk> i can use that?
<daftykins> if it has a Loonix on it sure
<daftykins> and is new enough to have the right packages
<maps|wrk> ah no wrunning winblows 7
<daftykins> you can knock up a live session though right?
<daftykins> on a flash drive
<maps|wrk> yea i could ..would have to be USB as no cd/dvd drive
<maps|wrk> :D
<maps|wrk> ubuntu live cd prob got an iso or 2 on the hdd as it is
<maps|wrk> http://frogs.zapto.org/images/main/mouse.jpg
<maps|wrk> :D
<daftykins> nobody uses optical media for live sessions anymore, as ubuntus are too big now
<daftykins> well, too big for CD that is
<daftykins> maps|wrk: here we go, got it running on my VM
<daftykins> maps|wrk: the package "miniupnpc" provides the binary "upnpc", so you install it and run "upnpc -s" as a standard user, which then queries the router for its' connection status
<maps|wrk> hm
<maps|wrk> no way to fiund out from the web based config for the router
<daftykins> mine responds with MaxBitRateDown: 45492000 bps (45.4 Mbps) MaxBitRateUp 11087000 bps (11.0 Mbps )
<daftykins> no, as i started by saying :)
<daftykins> your router will only tell you your *provisioned* speed
<daftykins> for example that's telling me 45 and 11, my provisioned speed is 40 and 5
<daftykins> i'd love to have 10Mb up :(
<maps|wrk> heh
<shauno> do we need to reel another string out to your island?
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> shauno: careful it might sink
<daftykins> shauno: actually we need to employ more opera singers to sing across the coast.
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Like sirens?
<zmoylan-pi> it'll just snag on a submarine again
<shauno> submarines are rarely the issue .. they're usually trying to miss the floor.  it's freight dragging anchor that ruins your weekend
<daftykins> or angry sharks
<shauno> most of those are safely employed in london :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> 40/5 is quite good for an island though
<daftykins> especially as we have no FUPs on our broadband services
<diddledan> FUP FTW
<diddledan> I'm hungry
<diddledan> I really should turn a light on, too
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> lit alone by the screens eh?
<daftykins> i do that far too often
<zmoylan-pi> as long as it's green text on black background :-)
<daftykins> hah
<maps|wrk> surely cables rarely get cut/damaged these days...theyre so far down and surely got big thick casings protecting them
<daftykins> nope regular occurence
<daftykins> some eastern country lost an entire route not long ago
<zmoylan-pi> didn't egypt lose internet when a cable was broken a few years back
<diddledan> you'd be surprised what a fisherman can do when he's after a bit of soul
<diddledan> sole?
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> soul.  they're pulling up the cables to download music from.
<maps|wrk> regular being how many times a year
<Azelphur> How to piss off your VPS provider: create a 1GB file and mount it as swap
<daftykins> maybe he's fishing for sole whilst listening to soul.
<maps|wrk> alkso..surely most have multiple cables
<zmoylan-pi> as long as he has a priest to administer the last rites
<daftykins> Azelphur: y u do dis
<Azelphur> daftykins: needed more ram to build flann
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> did their IO spike?
<daftykins> so came to you in anger?
<Azelphur> no anger yet xD
<daftykins> friendly queries? ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you listened to that compilation cd I posted earlier?
<Azelphur> c++: internal compiler error: Killed (program cc1plus) | Please submit a full bug report,
<Azelphur> add this to the list of things I broke.
<shauno> most of them we don't even hear about.  the last I heard was in july.  they're not newsworth unless they're big cables
<maps|wrk> ah
<diddledan> like cutting off half of asia
<diddledan> that was fun
<shauno> the gulf ones keep making the news because they are such a primary link between europe and asia.  almost everything goes down the red sea because either side is a tad scary
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> http://thenextweb.com/asia/2014/09/17/internet-speeds-across-southeast-asia-crash-yet-another-undersea-cable-breaks/
<shauno> so if you break the red sea, you have to go the wrong way around the planet to get to singapore/kuala lumpur/tokyo/etc.  which is bad for the people who invent fictional money by moving around fictional bits of paper
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> if it has to go the wrong way around the planet it'll go through america where the nsa can uh... back it up :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_submarine_cable_disruption#Conspiracy_theories
<diddledan> I thought all money was fictional these days. country-level gold stockpiling is a thing of the past in favour of "my money is valuable because you want it. yours isn't because I don't"
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: lol
<daftykins> whoops forgot about some laundry again.
<diddledan> I like that concept
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah, me too
<diddledan> daftykins: it's still sat in the machine from yesterday
<diddledan> I really should get to that
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> i'd just wash it again :P
<diddledan> yeah
<daftykins> aaaah, The Cranberries in FLAC
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> is anyone up to speed on what voodoo is required in the cipher suite for java6 to connect to a server that's had ssl3 turned off?
<maps|wrk> http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/28/7082697/bing-emoji-support
<maps|wrk> my oh my
<diddledan> shauno: that sounds painful
<shauno> it gets worse, trust me :)
<diddledan> shauno: if it doesn't support tls at all then you're stuffed
<MartijnVdS> shauno: are you writing the code?
<MartijnVdS> or configuring some piece of java code?
<shauno> more doing my homework.  we've been trying to figure out why so many clients are dropping off the radar
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10487962/java-cipher-suites/10488029#10488029
<shauno> every single client is running on java6.  the number of clients running on customer sites runs into six digits
<zmoylan-pi> in binary or decimal? :-p
<shauno> so what appears to be happening is that if they disconnect for any reason at all, they ain't coming back
<MartijnVdS> shauno: if you can write a 5-line (OK, 5kb) java6 program that can connect to TLS-only servers, all is well?
<shauno> so I'm trying to figure out if there's anything at all we can do at the server side to support the deployed codebase, without falling foul of the ssl3-banhammer
<MartijnVdS> http://juliusdavies.ca/commons-ssl/ssl.html
<shauno> updating the clients is the long-term solution, yeah.  a stop-gap until everyone's updated would be absolutely amazing though
<MartijnVdS> shauno: no I mean.. if you can write a simple Java client to test the situation
<MartijnVdS> shauno: also, maybe Mozilla can help
<MartijnVdS> shauno: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Server_Side_TLS
<maps|wrk> http://lego.gizmodo.com/this-lego-bmw-isetta-is-so-damn-cute-1651396700/+megneal
<maps|wrk> wow the bmw isetta is a weird car
<diddledan> shauno: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26429751/java-http-clients-and-poodle
<shauno> hm, that mozilla wiki one looks like exactly what I'm looking for!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's the awesomest
<MartijnVdS> we discovered it after Heartbleed. It helped a lot during Poodle
<MartijnVdS> (also, Poodle made us send out the "Yo, IE8/9 support is going away soon-ish" email to clients.. so yay!)
<zmoylan-pi> somebody put useful information on the internet?  how was this allowed to happen?? :-)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I want to send that email
<diddledan> IE10+ ONLY!
<zmoylan-pi> as long as you don't drop lynx support :-)
<diddledan> I really wish clients would understand that old browser support is a happenstance at most
<shauno> heh, I want to write the letter that goes to all the customers still running on an appliance that was EOL'd in 2005.
<zmoylan-pi> most clients don't know what an operating system is
<shauno> along with instructions on where to send all SBCs they're running on :D
<diddledan> if they want fancy doohickies then they sure as heck aren't going to get it supported in their corporate browsers
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: We just put it on security :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Microsoft isn't patching those anymore, and you're working with sensitive (local government/citizen's) data. We can't guarantee security with older browsers."
<MartijnVdS> meanwhile, our Javascript guru did a happy dance :)
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxC8kf7hvQE
<MartijnVdS> http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2014/10/28/security-checklist/
<maps|wrk> Anyone looking to cash in on the zeitgeist by buying the domain name ebola.com has left it too late, because the domain name has sold for more than $200,000.â¦
<maps|wrk> O_o
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah that has happened many times
<diddledan> maps|wrk: was it the parent virus hoping to garner some positive mind-share?
<diddledan> ebola: we may kill you, but it's one heck of a ride
<MartijnVdS> ebo.la
<maps|wrk> :D
<diddledan> ebola.net: social networking for viruses
<maps|wrk> http://www.cnet.com/news/20-google-glass-knockoff-does-almost-nothing-but-its-cheap/#ftag=CAD590a51e -
<zmoylan-pi> selling pc antivirus?
<maps|wrk> look at that lol the nophone
<maps|wrk> There's also the noPhone, a smartphone-shaped chunk of plastic that encourages you to have real interactions with people, rather than losing yourself in a screen.
<diddledan> it looks like a tacky pice of plastic - they could have at least put some effort into making it look the part
<maps|wrk> yea
<maps|wrk> some of these crowd funded projects are lol
<maps|wrk> wonder how many go ahead and if people pay up etc
<zmoylan-pi> people will buy it as a christmas pressie for people they think are glued to their phones as a hint
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i have friends like that, highly irritating
<daftykins> people struggle to just be where they are these days
<diddledan> you have friends that are glued to their phones, or friends who buy terrible unthinking gifts?
<shauno> 'where I am' is usually a couch though :/
<zmoylan-pi> the best cruel gift i have heard off remains the digital watch the guys in the goon show bought for their floor manager
<maps|wrk> g0on show?:D
<daftykins> diddledan: :P most definitely glued to their phones. it's the types that have them out on the table top in a restaurant instead of away in a pocket too
<zmoylan-pi> in the late 50s early 60s.  the digital watch cost a fortune. you can see the model in first james bond movie
<zmoylan-pi> where you have to press  button to see the time as the batteries didn't last long
<zmoylan-pi> they gave it to a one armed man they hated
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: android wear?
<diddledan> don't you love that we're plugging our watches into power overnight for fear of being without the time?
<zmoylan-pi> you could look at your phone...
<daftykins> i saw someone ask for the time beneath the town church clock tower the other day
<daftykins> the mind boggled.
<zmoylan-pi> my eyesight can't distinguish the hands of tower clocks easily even when i'm wearing glasses
<daftykins> you might wanna get that checked
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> i'm kinda hoping they did when they measured me for glasses :-)
<daftykins> i wonder if these cheap Â£16 mains adapters from China can be trusted, on ebay
<maps|wrk> for what
<daftykins> it's for a white macbook from 2007
<maps|wrk> 16 quid doesnt seem overly cheap unless its not
<daftykins> my mates given me it as the unit and the battery are dead
<maps|wrk> ah ok i thought umeant like the expansion socket ones
<daftykins> Â£16 is crazy cheap for a laptop mains adapter
<zmoylan-pi> would it be worth it to borrow one to see if laptop works with it before buying one?
<daftykins> already done sir
<diddledan> daftykins: I bought one a while back - the magnet part of the magsafe pulled-away from the rest of the plug after a while. it happened when I was detaching it and caused lots of sparkage
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> nasty
<maps|wrk> magsafe
<maps|wrk> ?
<maps|wrk> never heard that word
<daftykins> Apple magnetic connector
<daftykins> proprietary to their laptops
<zmoylan-pi> even if it was on a deep fat fryer first
<popey> yeah, friend of mine bought one
<popey> didnt last
<daftykins> hmm might be worth considering a legitimate one then
<daftykins> Â£37.49 on ebay there for one that's claimed to be "genuine"
<shauno> I love magsafe so much.  I wish they'd just give it away.  Just go "here world, this is how cables work.  make it happen!"
<popey> heh
<popey> i tried to fish neuro's mbp off a desk with his magsafe power cable
<zmoylan-pi> in 15 years or so it will be.  just as wireless charging catches on :-)
<daftykins> hmm i think something bad is happening out there on the interwebs, i'm getting pretty dire connectivity across sites all of a sudden
<shauno> Sometimes I wonder if "genuine" is actually the name of a chinese company.  So "genuine PSU" is technically true
<maps|wrk> yea ive seen 'genuine' on ebay and shock turns out to not be quite so genuine
<zmoylan-pi> didn't japan name an area usa so it could label products 'made in usa'?
<diddledan> shauno: apparently mcdonalds in australia buys their beef from a subsidiary called "100% australian beef"
<maps|wrk> http://151.224.185.211:81/index.htm work?
<shauno> reminds me of a power adaptor that was labelled "designed by california" instead of apple's tagline "designed by Apple in california"
<maps|wrk> should be my lounge cam
<popey> password prompt
<daftykins> ^
<maps|wrk> thanks
<maps|wrk> musnt be able to access port 81 here
<shauno> look into doing reverse-proxies in apache or nginx.  then you can point different names to different ports, all through port80.  (and then give the same IP a hundred names on your local machine)
<shauno> only works for things that are http of course, but it's a handy way to stuff completely different services behind the same port
<maps|wrk> ah like i do with qwebirc i think shauno? i gotr qwebirc running on localhost:9090 but i use reverse proxy in apache and access it via http://151.224.185.211/news/
<maps|wrk> :)
<shauno> bingo :)
<diddledan> /news/?
<shauno> and lol @ news
<maps|wrk> well i figured better than /chat or /irc
<diddledan> we're better than paid-up journos now?
<shauno> I have a coworker that does something similar.  He uses the printer a *lot*, and never for stuff that's work-related.  But he renamed everything so "such and such report" so it all looks kosher in the logs :)
<maps|wrk> yea exactly:)
<maps|wrk> http://ip/news looks normal
<daftykins> that's a seriously dick move
<maps|wrk> also stripped away the title of qwebirc etc
<daftykins> i don't like freeloaders
<maps|wrk> why daftykins ?
<maps|wrk> pfft
<maps|wrk> companies make enougth
<shauno> Ithink he means abusing the printer
<daftykins> ^
<maps|wrk> yea i thought so..but so what i dont care if people print out 10000s of pages
<maps|wrk> why should i
<daftykins> if everyone thought like you, companies would go under
<diddledan> I got in trouble for abusing the printer at work. apparently they're family-friendly too
<shauno> I'm curious to see how long the printer itself lasts.  we're meant to be a paperless office, and then they went and shoved this mammoth floor-standing ricoh thing in there
<maps|wrk> we got a big beast xerox one ,
<diddledan> we've got lots
<maps|wrk> daftykins:  but they make so much money and dont pay vat ..its like nothing to big companies
<maps|wrk> daftykins's a company man
 * maps|wrk isnt
<diddledan> there's almost as many printers as there are desks
<daftykins> right but why are you being specific about the company?
<daftykins> you can't assume the company this applies to
<maps|wrk> well often companies make lots, if it was a 2 person company fine thats diff
<daftykins> nevermind, i don't want to stay on this topic
<maps|wrk> O_o
<daftykins> really can't decide if it's worth putting money into this macbook at all
<maps|wrk> if its just charger..yes
<maps|wrk> ;]
<diddledan> hand on. does the release upgrader take a btrfs snapshot before doing it's thing?!
<daftykins> no the battery is dead too, as mentioned earlier
<zmoylan-pi> i'd bring it to apple store and see what it would cost to get it repaired properly and let that amount make the decision
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: they're not items requiring repairs
<zmoylan-pi> then the replacement parts costs
<diddledan> the battery costs Â£100 ish last I heard
<shauno> I think it'd depend what kinda condition it's in.  the resale value on macs can be kinda surpirsing sometimes
<shauno> you might discover it's more than worth your time to make it saleable
<daftykins> yeah, it's an old 2007 core 2 duo one with 1.5GB RAM, stuck at OS X 10.7
<diddledan> even so it might get up to around the 5ton mark
<daftykins> seems a battery is Â£109 on the Apple site
<daftykins> seriously? surely not
<shauno> curious, is it a plastic one or a metal one?
<daftykins> white plastic job
<shauno> ah ok
<maps|wrk> what condition is it in
<diddledan> I think it's the newer of the white plackies tho
<shauno> (the 2007 mbp suffers from "incredibly melty nvidia" issues, hence the Q)
<daftykins> i don't think it had nvidia
<daftykins> can't quite remember now
<daftykins> and can't fire it up to see ;D
<shauno> right.  the macbook has intel integrated, the pro has a discrete chip that likes to heat up so bad it desolders itself
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> mmm i know the fault only too well
<shauno> (source: my 2007 macbook pro   lol)
<daftykins> same issue as the xbox360 i think
<maps|wrk>  http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-10/27/google-exec-skydive thats sick..so high
<shauno> the repair program for it was awesome, but still
<daftykins> he beat Felix Baumgartner, yeah
<shauno> (I used to literally phone galmac and tell them I needed another motherboard.  and they'd give me a slot to go get it swapped out while-you-wait for free)
<maps|wrk> ya, crazy high tho and they say how the tech will let normal folks and tourists go up that high..i dont want to :P
<maps|wrk> i dont think
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<shauno> my understanding is that apple were billing the whole adventure to nvidia, so they were handing out replacements like candy
<diddledan> maps|wrk: the problem with goign that high is you've got to come back down
<daftykins> i may well go have a word in the Apple reseller shop around the corner from me
<daftykins> Â£90 battery seems likely though
<daftykins> but it makes the machine useable just to have the mains adapter
<maps|wrk> id be scared on the way up:D
<daftykins> lol @ these reviews saying Apple are getting worse because they're "cutting CD drives" from systems
<shauno> heh.  they'll get over it.  they said the same thing when the imac came without a floppy drive
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> this always makes me laugh
<daftykins> someone's signed me up to their email again
<daftykins> "PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE AS THE MAILBOX IS UNATTENDED."
<daftykins> "If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately"
<daftykins> err...
<shauno> I finally got rid of the guy that kept using mine :)
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i'm going to grab my headphones and skype call this line, to ask them to remove my email
<daftykins> last time someone just blankly said "er i don't think we can do that"
<shauno> I tried to explain to him that the address he kept using was mine, and he said he wasn't using it
<daftykins> oooh that's what i get too
<daftykins> so he refused to own up?
<shauno> so I let myself into his vodafone account and continued the conversation over webtext.
<maps|wrk> lol how did you contact him
<shauno> my replying to things where whole groups of people were copied :)
<shauno> *by
<daftykins> eh? groups of people?
<diddledan> daftykins: "friends"
<shauno> yeah.  whole conversations arranging things.
<daftykins> aaah
<maps|wrk> ah and someone was emaolimng yours thinking it was his friends?
<maps|wrk> *emailing
<shauno> "sorry, I won't be there sunday because I'm not kieron"
<diddledan> daftykins: it's a strange concept to me, too
<daftykins> lol no i was just wondering how an account could possibly provide access to a phone user's contacts
<daftykins> or messages
<shauno> my biggest questions is how kieron was 'accidentally' using firstname.lastname@gmail when we don't have the same firstname
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> shauno: how does kieron accidentally use so**l
<diddledan> aah . - gmail ignores dotty names
<shauno> its my whole name though, not initials
<diddledan> it still doesn't work tho, firstname lastname just cannot match
<shauno> right
<diddledan> perhaps he was a retard?
<shauno> anyway, that's how you get rid of people - password reset used in anger
<diddledan> hehe
<daftykins> this lot seem to keep using d<surname>##@gmail
<diddledan> that sounds fun
<daftykins> and neglect to type in the ## number they've appended to mine
<daftykins> so i just end up getting their junk instead
<shauno> the bit I really don't like though.  is when you get people innocently reaching 'the wrong shaun'
<shauno> and you're so used to spam that you end up going over it with a fine toothcomb before replying to let them know
<shauno> I think that's kinda sad.  "sorry, wrong number" gets lost in a huge pile of distrust
<daftykins> somehow they can't get the right details of their friends XD
<shauno> I think my name's just a pain in the anatomy.  there's at least 3 spellings of my surname, at least four of my firstname, etc
<diddledan> maybe we should start requiring ICQ-style numbered accounts instead of "nickname"?
<zmoylan-pi> throw in a ' for the irish names and sql loves you too :-)
<shauno> that I'm fine with.  keiren just bugged me because he was getting his *own name* wrong
<shauno> zmoylan-pi: hah, my work address has an apostrophe
<diddledan> shauno: your work address doesn't exist anyway
<shauno> not out of choice, I never write it with the apostrophe.  but it is rfc-valid!
<zmoylan-pi> the number of american companies who's solution to customers in ireland is to have their clients names spelled wrong remains high :-)
<zmoylan-pi> just put it down as obrien!
<zmoylan-pi> they won't be insulted at all
<shauno> obrien would be awesome.  I'd just have everyone call me Chief :)
<diddledan> hehe
<daftykins> ok time to call http://www.bcbsfl.com/
<daftykins> lets see how far they can get to removing my email from this account, based solely on my email + the name of the person that's the imposter
<diddledan> shauno: similar with scott
<diddledan> I guess I can twist my nipple nuts and get you all to call me susan?
<daftykins> A boy named Sue.
<shauno> daftykins: you might wanna read this first :)  http://www.ousbey.com/blog/amazon-just-told-me-to-log-into-someone-elses-account
<diddledan> daftykins: my last name is llewellyn
<diddledan> so I can pretend to be a mechanoid
<shauno> I'm an ONeil.  the kicker is I'm not even irish.  it's all one big fluke.
<daftykins> "i need your social sec #"
<daftykins> ugh, not gonna get far with this
<shauno> 3-2-4, invent one :)
<daftykins> jeez i just had to fudge my way through loads
<shauno> and if they get too useless, remind them that if they mail you anything about their customer, it's a huge HIPAA violation
<shauno> the healthcare industry in particular has some very heavy-handed rules about such things
<zmoylan-pi> they'll just label you a hacker and set the fbi on you :-)
<daftykins> lol this woman isn't even listening to me
<daftykins> i just had to go "you are aware you're ignoring me, right?"
<daftykins> after a second she goes "...what?"
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins my whistle
<daftykins> finally someone that finished school
<shauno> daftykins: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/colleen-brennan/5/a61/a1b
<shauno> I love the internet, it scares me
<daftykins> lol
<shauno> (the 'compliance officer' hat should cover 'not sending patient data to random foreigners, I believe)
<daftykins> ok this one *claimed* they're going to sort it out
<daftykins> after taking the name of the person (another "D <surname>" except female too, no less!
<shauno> I can't believe Aftykins is that common a surname!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> honestly that first one was a complete numpty, i guess dealing with customers grates so much you stop listening
<daftykins> gave me a phone # then i said "i called that one just now"
<daftykins> "ok thank you for calling bai!"
<shauno> hopefuly you didn't just pay for that adventure
<daftykins> well it was 1-877, i used skype
<diddledan> skype is awesome for foreign freefone numbers
<shauno> completely unrelated: why are we all here and it's not 3am?
<shauno> I feel like we've stolen someone else's shift
<diddledan> shauno: that reminds me. I need pizza
<daftykins> you guys didn't get the memo about "when shall we three meet again" :(
<shauno> I believe dan ate it
<diddledan> I did, but shauno had the eye at the time
<shauno> see, now I feel better about blaming you.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's baseball night tonight
<diddledan> o_O
<shauno> noo, it's sleep night tonight
<daftykins> game 6 of the world series!
<shauno> which countries are playing?
<diddledan> baseball? when did you become american?
<daftykins> the US and the US!
<daftykins> you know how it is, the rest of the world doesn't get invited
<diddledan> that's because we'd win
<daftykins> well i suddenly got into it
<daftykins> i've been to a real game in San Francisco too
<shauno> I played rounders once.  I still can't tell the difference
<diddledan> shauno: ditto
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> or softball!
<diddledan> whatever, it still ain't cricket
<shauno> it's like .. if you hold the bat with one hand, it's rounders, if you use two hands, it's baseball
<diddledan> I don't get what the problem is when "all the bases are loaded" - surely when the next guy comes up the other three move-on a base until someone realises and tries to stump them out
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> no it's a good thing for the team that's batting
<daftykins> it puts pressure on the fielding team though
<diddledan> really?
<daftykins> the guy that catches the ball just behind the batter, his job is to send little hand signals to the pitcher, telling him if he should spin around and throw the ball to a base instead of pitching, to try and catch someone off their base
<diddledan> you don't get so many goals when a guy runs one base to home than running all 3, though?
<daftykins> it's the same value, one run earnt for a home-run versus making it around slowly
<shauno> lol @ goals
<daftykins> although if someone hit a home-run when there's someone else on a base, they could complete their run without fear of the ball being used to tag them out too
<daftykins> don't know if diddledan is trolling me or not :(
<diddledan> no I really am a mormonomnomnom
<daftykins> a mormon 0o
<shauno> I can't tell either.  I would have expected him to be legitimately clueless about all forms of sportsball.  but I've never heard the phrase "all the bases are loaded"
<diddledan> yeah, someone who isn't clever
<zmoylan-pi> if you hold the bat with 2 hands, it's a punishment beating, this is ireland :-p
<shauno> I thought all the bases were belong to.  so he knows .... something.  and that's disconcerting
<daftykins> shauno: ah, then i shall link you gentlemen tonight! :D
<daftykins> then you can stay up 'til at least 4am with me, watching!
<diddledan> shauno: movies teach me stuff
<daftykins> can someone do me a favour? this video isn't buffering in any kind of sane time, is it just me? http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/63106348/v36868661/ws2014-gm6-ventura-discusses-taveras-passing
<diddledan> works fine here
<shauno> I also have 'just buffering'.  and a very awkward keyframe.
<diddledan> it's a bloke talking foreign
<shauno> oh, tell a lie.  the play button worked  lol
<diddledan> and a guy sat next to him pretending he understands
<shauno> I thought the spinny circle thing meant "I'm doing something, hold up"
<daftykins> it's taken the last 5-10 mins to buffer 30 seconds worth
<daftykins> shauno: i did too initially :(
<diddledan> daftykins: try respawning
<daftykins> but i might appear at the start of the level?
<diddledan> it depends whether you reached a savepoint or not yet
<daftykins> oh damn, yeah weirdly that sorted itself out
<daftykins> whole site has been slow all day
<shauno> it's slowly dawning on me that you're not just trying to be funny.  you really do follow this stuff
<daftykins> i have, only for the last few weeks though
<daftykins> this team here, the Kansas City Royals, they've made it to this 'final' for the first time in 30 years
<daftykins> so it's a big deal for the locals ;)
<shauno> I suspect you may have overdosed on TV when you were less-mobile, and this is a side-effect
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> i have to use low quality shifty feeds to watch the game
<daftykins> despite using adblocking softwares, they block out the picture with an advert pane all the time
<daftykins> sooo frustrating
<shauno> adblockers are so trivial to break, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often
<shauno> just giving the div a randomised id will break most
<daftykins> http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/63106348/v36869443/live-world-series-game-6-pregame-pressers
<daftykins> this live one just does not have a chance of working here
<daftykins> keeps stopping, starting, skipping
<daftykins> wow i got 3 seconds just then!
<diddledan> comcast want me to not subscribe to directv
<diddledan> ok then. I won't
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> yeah, I'm getting that too.  i ... f ... yu ... ss ... ign ... uu .... p for ...
<daftykins> hmm i don't even get ads!
<daftykins> ;D
<shauno> perhaps the internet is trying to send you a message?
<daftykins> "america can't do video streaming" yep
<daftykins> just like with Apple's last WWDC :)
<diddledan> it's all silverlight
<diddledan> yeah, apple's wwdc was a farce
<shauno> wwdc was fine?
<diddledan> really?
<daftykins> naaah the livestream was totally busted for everyone
<daftykins> or kept switching to having a chinese dub over the top
<shauno> ah
<shauno> sorry, I thought you meant wwdc :)
<daftykins> yeah, pretty sure that was the event
<daftykins> back in July or some such
<shauno> wwdc was june, the "sept 9th event" was just a PRnote
<diddledan> I first had to convince it not to show me some random testcard with the "TV truck schedule" and then I had foreign dub as daftykins suggests
<shauno> the one where they announced ios8 was wwdc.  the one where they announced the iphone6 was just PR
<daftykins> yeah it was the first announcement of Yosemite and iOS 8 WWDC
<daftykins> no wait.
<daftykins> ok yeah i'm confused now
<shauno> this?  http://simonfredsted.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Screen-Shot-2014-09-10-at-23.59.34.png
<diddledan> yeah, that
<daftykins> main point of baseball though
<daftykins> beer and hot dogs!
<diddledan> I have no idea when it was.. no clue about either the date or time
<shauno> I know what you mean, I just try not to confuse the different events because I tend to record wwdc in it's entirety (the whole week's worth!)
<diddledan> it would help if they had some kind of schedule
<daftykins> i think shauno might be right, it could well be the iPhone 6 event that failed big time
<daftykins> hang on let me query the masses that were shocked at the poor video along with i
<shauno> they did.  and they kept showing it to people who were trying to watch the keynote :)
<diddledan> I think they might have outsourced the tv truck though and it was that which was doing the failwhale
<shauno> I think it was ninjas
<daftykins> ^
<shauno> I have logics too.  they almost always hold events in the moscone center.
<daftykins> with pirate parrots on their shoulders
<shauno> I think the moscone center hired ninjas to mess up the one they did from a different center
<daftykins> for my next trick i will see if i can get some of the other games i missed
<daftykins> i didn't stay up every night :(
<daftykins> they were playing in San Francisco last, which makes it worse of course
<shauno> timezones?
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> Kansas City is tonights, so at least it goes to central time
<shauno> who knew watching sportsball was so complicated!
<daftykins> ikr!
<daftykins> plus it gets rained off sometimes too
<daftykins> D:!
<shauno> I thought they just yell at the TV whenever there's not beer in their faces  :/
<daftykins> yep you were right, iPhone 6 event was what was failing
<shauno> :)
<shauno> it's easy to remember.  the dev conf. doesn't get simulcast in chinese
<shauno> you don't need to tell chinese developers about your next release, they already have the source.
<shauno> but telling all those billions that to buy .. that's worth an extra audio track
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i think my kitty just ate something that was flying around
<daftykins> excellent, she's finally pulling her weight :)
<diddledan> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VFAPSZOsUac
<shauno> oooh
<shauno> I like that their animation has all the same blinking lights they put on planes
<zmoylan-pi> but did she eat all of it or leave a present somewhere for you to step on...
<diddledan> beautiful sunset
<daftykins> this video is dropping immensely too
<daftykins> seriously what is with my tubes today O_O
<diddledan> daftykins: france are annexing the islands
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> sacre bleu
<zmoylan-pi> the cuisine will improve? :-)
<daftykins> we have enough already
<shauno> hm, this one's fine here
<diddledan> fine here too
<diddledan> I think daftykins just can't hop the pond
<daftykins> ^
<diddledan> which telco are you with?
<diddledan> maybe they're broken
<daftykins> Sure Guernsey :)
<shauno> heh, that sounds quite .. irish.  "sure itsinternets.  it'll be grand!"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I read that in irish accent too
<daftykins> to be Sure, to be Sure
<shauno> I was going to say "if I ever start an ISP ...".  but lets be realistic.  if I ever try to start an ISP, shoot me
<daftykins> roger that
<shauno> weird question; do the islands 'do' guns?
<daftykins> one of my pals from Boston says he's managed to find laws on what i can do, that i didn't know about
<shauno> I'm just always curious about how british they are, and how british they aren't
<daftykins> well we do have our own government :)
<daftykins> the fact i didn't die is probably a good testament to our healthcare system too
<daftykins> which is non-NHS
<diddledan> one of the islands is still feudal
<daftykins> indeed!
<diddledan> sark?
<daftykins> good ol' Sark
<shauno> that kinda looks like a concrete heatsink.  weird.
<daftykins> eh?
<shauno> they keep showing the rocket's bottom
<daftykins> oic
<shauno> and the thing it's sat on
<daftykins> 2hrs 'til the game is on!
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> ?!
<shauno> you said until 4am?
<daftykins> possibly
<shauno> and it starts at midnight ..
<daftykins> they can run on you see, they refuse to allow draws
<daftykins> a standard game has 9 innings, but if they're drawing it'll go on until someone is ahead
<shauno> and an inning is what, an hour?!
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> http://www.stream2watch.me/baseball
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> shame my poor little ion1 HTPC can't play the flash player of the stream full screen
<shauno> I'm sorry Dave.  I can't do that.
<daftykins> you know what's good about that, i am Dave too
<daftykins> !
<shauno> hah
<shauno> that works
<shauno> so what you need is for someone to figure out where the mp4 stream lives.
<shauno> (I assume their ipad app isn't flash-backed ..)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> hang on, this stream2watch thing has an app?
<shauno> I know MLB do
<daftykins> yeah, their ones are pay for annoyingly
<shauno> they're even on the appletv
<shauno> ahh
<daftykins> $25 to watch these games, and since there's one or two left
<shauno> gotcha
<shauno> I think that's why there's not many sportsballs on my TV either
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> that said, I don't have movie channels either.  In a slip of stupidity, I was bluntly honest on the phone
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> i don't even use a broadcast TV medium.
<daftykins> right i'm heading off toward the lounge, ttfn sirs!
<shauno> when I ordered 120meg cable, they tried to sell me the movies package.  and I flat-out told them that with 120meg, I don't need movie channels
<daftykins> i shall no doubt be on here watching the game :>
<daftykins> LOL
<shauno> one of those moments where your brain is sitting there going "mouth?   hello?  mouth?  what are you .."
<daftykins> "because i er, use legit streaming services *cough* "
<diddledan> 30 sec
<shauno> did it just get dark there really, really quickly?
<diddledan> wow that's a big flame
<shauno> oh
<shauno> oops
<diddledan> erm
<shauno> I believe they call that a "plot twist"
<diddledan> sorry, but I really need to swear
<diddledan> I look away for a moment and it's exploding when I look back
<diddledan> I didn't even see how high it got
<diddledan> looks like the launch pad is on fire
<shauno> it seemed to get like .. almost twice it's own height
<diddledan> there's something on rire to the far left of the picture
<diddledan> fire*
<shauno> then it seemed to pretty much hover.  and then got all spicey-like
<shauno> yeah.  it's really not designed as a landing pad
<shauno> ... and the rocket really isn't designed to land
<shauno> this is gonna sound horrible.  but thanks for the link.  I've never seen that before
<diddledan> scrub the data?
<diddledan> wtf?
<shauno> I was thinking that
<diddledan> is there something we should know about?
<diddledan> I'm wondering if there was something in the payload in addition to the resupply module
<shauno> https://blogs.nasa.gov/orbital/2014/10/28/crs-3s-cargo/
<diddledan> the lighthouse across the other side of the bay shows up well
<shauno> when he says it won't affect the Progress launch.  I assume that's being launched somewhere else?
<shauno> because you're right.  to my completely uneducated eye, that place looks messed up
<diddledan> http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/matthew-wilson/alienware-to-launch-external-graphics-adapter-for-laptops/
<shauno> "launch"  .. hehe
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-29
<daftykins> the game's on boys!
<daftykins> first innings finished already
<daftykins> aww yeah Kansas are kicking some serious ass
<daftykins> although this leads to the idea that it's all rigged because it's going to as many games as it can, thus fuelling marketing and ticket sales
<diddledan> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1FBxTJIYAALcDH.jpg
<daftykins> d'aww
<diddledan> such a cutie
<diddledan> those big eyes!
<daftykins> diddledan: http://i.imgur.com/dvVzwGJ.jpg
<diddledan> <3
<diddledan> interesting. the director's cut of "alien" (the original of the quadrilogy) is 6 minutes SHORTER than the theatrical release was
 * diddledan reading the back of the dvd
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> bluray**
<daftykins> odd for a director to want less
<diddledan> the disc has both versions, and lists the runtime of each
<daftykins> i wonder what the scene is
<daftykins> or scene(s)
<diddledan> I wonder if I can do a side-by-side comparisson
<diddledan> I'm in the process of ripping it off the disc so I'll have unencrypted versions of both
<diddledan> (actually I'm doing LOTR right now)
<diddledan> but I will be doing the aliens
<daftykins> ooh i never saw the third LOTR
<diddledan> I have LOTR on VHS - when I finally got a bluray capability I decided it was time to replace them
<mapps> hi akk
<mapps> all
<daftykins> \o
<mapps> still up eh:D
<mapps> whatcha upto
<daftykins> baseball game just finished
<mapps> ah
<mapps> who won kc?
<daftykins> yep! which makes it 3-3
<daftykins> so it's going to the final
<daftykins> mapps: what's this Technicolor model then?
<mapps> hm
<mapps> sec
<mapps> tg789vn v3
<daftykins> heh that's my exact one.
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> ISP supplied.
<mapps> wonder how many gibconnect (gibtelecom) people are on freenode
<mapps> only 30000 people in country
<daftykins> give that command a go then to see what speed your line is sync'd at
<daftykins> and also look at the web admin to see what speed is provisioned
<mapps> will do once i sort a live usb:D
<daftykins> chop chop ;)
<mapps> cant find a usb key gah
<mapps> only oe i got has stuff on it hm
<daftykins> copy it off ;)
<mapps> i will:D
<mapps> watching american dad b4 bed..howd u watch ur baseball? that mlbtvs quite cool
<mapps> works well on tablets.phones and qualitys devcent
<daftykins> nah live games aren't available on that
<daftykins> without paying a $25 sub
<mapps> oh
<mapps> 365 not streaming?
<daftykins> wha?
<mapps> bet365.com streams baseball
<mapps> wondered if that was what you used
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> you won't find me having anything to do with betting sites :>
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> there's a free streaming site
<mapps> s i=o much tv to watch
<mapps> gotham..the flash..stalker..intruders
<daftykins> it's pretty annoying though as you get blackout ads if you aren't watching it full screen
<mapps> not watched any of gotham yet tho
<daftykins> nah i've not tried that
<mapps> u watch many tv series? flash seemed cool watched 1 ep
<daftykins> i don't really tend to watch anything new, got a finger in the pie of a few ongoing series though
<daftykins> Big Bang Theory, South Park, Family Guy (though i don't know why i still bother)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> likes simpsons
<mapps> its got dull eh for years now
<mapps> imo
<daftykins> yeah
<shauno> mornin
<mapps> morninf shauno  actually got some sleep for once?:P
<diddledan> he was gone before midnight!
<mapps> ;]
<shauno> proper normal I am :)
<mapps> sleep time for me
<mapps> put brooklyn nine nine on and catch some zs
<mapps> night all
<diddledan> http://www.darlinghq.org/
<diddledan> osxwine
<diddledan> winesx?
<diddledan> it's wine only for osx/mach
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> binaries*
<mapps> was there no other way to run windows stuff on osx before?
<diddledan> other way around
<diddledan> osx on loonix
<mapps> oh
<mapps> aha
<diddledan> specifically an "is not an emaulator" of osx
<mapps> aha
<mapps> i see
<diddledan> so far they have rudimentary commandline app support
<mapps> wasnt there another windows-> linux thing besides wine
<mapps> one for games specificaly i thought
<mapps> or was it an abandonded project hm
<diddledan> that is without recompiling the objective-c code against gnustep
<diddledan> wine+games used to be cedega formally winex
<diddledan> they don't sell to consumers any more tho
<mapps> hat was it cegega
<diddledan> they only sell to people that want to port their software to linux without doing any work
<mapps> cedega
<mapps> is i just wine for apps or something else now too?
<mapps> never used win apps on linux for years
<diddledan> nono it's still game-focussed
<diddledan> they just no longer sell it as a "games on linux" but instead they sell it to the game devs as "make your one game work on linux"
<diddledan> afaict it's sold per game-title
<diddledan> and probably based on expected revenue
<diddledan> it's blinking expensive, too
<map> got cutoff
<map> ;[
<map> nick mappps
<diddledan> how far did you get?
<map> about how its sold to game devs
<map> so is there anythng specifically for apps?
<maps|wrk> will use my 2nd registered nick for now ;]
<diddledan> commercially there's codeweavers' "crossover" which is essentially wine+shiny-gui
<maps|wrk> :D
<diddledan> if you don't need commercial support tho you're probably better sticking with the standard wine package
<maps|wrk> free isnt it?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> wine is nicely libre
<maps|wrk> well night..sleep time for me gotta go
<maps|wrk> put brooklyn 99 queued up
<maps|wrk> so il sleep to that:D
<diddledan> nightynight
<mapps> will have to find a new comedy to sleep to soon or recycle an old one
<mapps> endup having seen or heard every ep too many times heh
<mapps> been through scrubs..how i met your mother..rules of engagement..8simple ruls..etc :)
<diddledan> new bug \o/
<diddledan> bug #1387011
<lubotu3> bug 1387011 in llvm (Ubuntu) "llvm cmake files incorrectly generated" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1387011
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> hey MooDoo , how are you doing today ?
<diddledan> morning?!
<diddledan> it can't be
<knightwise> But it must be , dear watson
<MooDoo> diddledan: unfortunately, someone stole the night for me too
<knightwise> Bastards !
<diddledan> language timothy!
<knightwise>  crud
<knightwise> version of geary keeps crashing under elementary
<knightwise> trying to install latest version from source
<knightwise> cmake error xml2po not found ?
<knightwise> any ideas what this might be ?
<knightwise> aha , did an apt get remove and apt-get install and it appears to work now
<knightwise> the version seems to have upgrade itself
<andylockran> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Internet Day, and happy Cat Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> popey: ^ if ever there was gonna be a good day
<popey> \o/ Double whammy!
<zmoylan-pi> throw in a laser show...
<MartijnVdS> awesome day!
<JamesTait> http://youtu.be/zi8VTeDHjcM
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you might like this compilation cd too https://play.spotify.com/album/5ufeHHYtjfinUjlPHRUcO8
<diddledan> reminds me of the stage show "Avenue Q"s song "the internet is for....."
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> brobostigon: i installed haiku last night
<brobostigon> popey: cool, which version?
<popey> 1.4 i think
<brobostigon> R1A4 ?
<brobostigon> anyways, i would have gone with a nightly, as the last stable release is several years old now. alot has changed in that time.
<popey> oh, I'll do a re-install sometime then
<popey> ta
<diddledan> I should know what haiku is?
<brobostigon> the last stable release, doesnt include things like the package manager, for example.
<brobostigon> its a hybrid kernel OS, inslired by BeOS, using in part the newOS kernel.
<brobostigon> inspired*
<zmoylan-pi> a famous xkcd mentions it. http://3d.xkcd.com/806/
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> if i ever hear the phrase shibboleet i will go off script when helping people :-)
<diddledan> since when has that cartoon been 3d?
<zmoylan-pi> that was new to me too, was first link on search xkcd haiku shibboleet
<diddledan> they're all 3d now?
<popey> since you linked to 3.
<popey> 3d.
<popey> just remove that and they aren't 3d
<diddledan> oooohhhh
<diddledan> much better
<diddledan> that was doing to my head what a roundabout does to an american
<diddledan> i.e. turns me into a jibbering wreck
<knightwise> i was wondering if there is a way to install the tools that come with Cali Linux onto another linux distro
<popey> dammit. laptop locked up
<popey> hmm, ssh'ed in. killed chromium, laptop continues
<zmoylan-pi> what crime did it commit?
<popey> it just froze
<citizenfive> looks like 14.10 is out. I will probably upgrade next week
 * popey sometimes wishes he'd stayed on 14.04
<citizenfive> are there any significant differences?
<BigRedS> We upgraded our admin PCs here to 14.10 last week with no apparent change
<davmor2> popey: you said and let me quote you I want be upgrading this time I'm staying on LTS what happened to that plan exactly? ;)
<popey> yeah, can't remember why i did
<davmor2> popey: it was all new and shiny right
<foobarry> wow. seen this video? gave me shivers. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=993124767370683&set=vb.213950138621487&type=2&theater
<diddledan> I fixed a bug: https://code.launchpad.net/~diddledan/ubuntu/utopic/debtags/fix-for-1370043/+merge/234814
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Seems pretty nasty, but what lead up to it? How are the police supposed to know who was/wasn't involved and who is/isn't armed? Is concealed-carry legal in that state?
<foobarry> http://thefreethoughtproject.com/dramatic-video-shows-man-refusing-lie-police-guns-pointed/
<foobarry> bit more info
<diddledan> albeit that my fix was rejected in favour of getting the same fix direct from debian
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: A biased report. I am *not* saying the police were right, I don't have enough information to make a decision one way or another
<TwistedLucidity> Seems to be a lot of police-hate doing the rounds at the moment. Not totally sure why.
<foobarry> US or UK?
<TwistedLucidity> Yes
<TwistedLucidity> Although more USA at the moment.
<zmoylan-pi> well if you go around shooting unarmed people people tend to not trust them
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Who got shot?
<zmoylan-pi> well police in uk are taser happy and there was that poor brazilian student a few years back
<TwistedLucidity> By that measure, then we should hate every group of people.
<foobarry> some place caleld ferguson? i don't remmeber reading much about it
<TwistedLucidity> Tragic mistakes happen. Some people are just plain nasty (police and general public). What we get to hear about mostly is the bad stuff as that sells. "Police do job" isn't going to sell papers or get clicks.
<foobarry> i like UK police
<foobarry> cannot offer educated opinion on the US but i don't like guns
<foobarry> or that video
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Don't go to N.Ireland then
<foobarry> i've been
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: You know if the Northern police still carry?
<foobarry> i think it was the first week you could go in shops in belfast without getting search
<foobarry> aroudn 15yrs ago
<TwistedLucidity> By and large all the cops I've dealt with have been fairly decent. The USA ones are much more...stand off-ish. To be expected, that USA imho is a nation that live in a perpetual state of fear.
<TwistedLucidity> "...the USA....that lives in..."
<TwistedLucidity> The police may not be perfect, but I'd rather have them than some baying vigilante mob (like those commentors on thefreethoughtproject)
<foobarry> i didn't read the comments
<zmoylan-pi> reading comments on the web is exposing oneself to pure distilled stupidity
<foobarry> the dark heart of stupid
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Thtat's a great title. Now you just need to write the boook
<zmoylan-pi> chapter 1: round them all up; put them in a field; and bomb the bunnies
<foobarry> it was a dark and stormy night. Barry grabbed the 6-pack of beers from the passenger seat and got out of the car. Grimacing against the wind and rain, he trotted torwards the porch of the new-build semi detached house he had recently purchased on the ouskirts of Basingstoke. There were no longer any puddles on the smooth tarmac surface of his driveway, rather a mass of standing water. Fumbling his keys
<foobarry>  as he hastened to enter the warmth of his house, he dropped them in the muddy flowerbed. Muttering to himself as he crossed the threshold, kicking off his hiking style trainers that had never taken his chubby legs onto countryside, he flipped the lid on his laptop before he had taken his coat off. Water ran down his sleeve and gathered into small pools on the lid of the laptop. Impatiently he hit the
<foobarry> F5 key. There it was, the message he had been waiting for. How he would reply in the next few moments would change his life forever.
<foobarry> my nephew wants a gaming headset 7.1 :S
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: at such close proximity to ear, does the surround have any effect?
<TwistedLucidity> Hang on, there's a video about what it's all bollocks....
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: This. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA
<TwistedLucidity> Seems to be more about the recording if you ask me
<foobarry> wow, bag head
<foobarry> 1:30
<Myrtti> 7.1 headset?
<Myrtti> how is that even
<foobarry> i don't know
<TwistedLucidity> A 7.1 headset is a normal, over-the-ear with various small speakers contained therein. They're best used with diamond coated audio cabled. The red ones go faster
<TwistedLucidity> As the video proves, a decent set of standard headphone and a good recording will give the same effects. You only have two ears after all....
<TwistedLucidity> It's simply harder with speakers to create the "sweet spot" where the effect would work. So we go for the multi-speaker set-up.
<foobarry> gaming headset has mic with noise cancellation etc, plus extra snake oil
<TwistedLucidity> Cue the audiophile to tell me I'm wrong....
<TwistedLucidity> Noise cancellation is a thing, but even lower end 'phones can ship with it these days
<TwistedLucidity> Heck, a PC with a mic could probably feed in the anti-noise regardless of how cheap the headphones were
<foobarry> the worst thing about audiophiles is their terrible taste in music
<diddledan> haha @ cat vomiting on popey
<diddledan> well not literally on
<diddledan> on popey's sofa (so he says in tweetland)
<popey> yeah
<popey> stupid cat
<popey> i should stop giving him truffles for lunch
<diddledan> popey, I love the timing
<diddledan> right on cue
<diddledan> http://www.welivesecurity.com/2014/10/29/white-house-hack/
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: cat barf > /dev/sofa?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: while due-live-via-ubuntu-on-air; do cat barf > /dev/sofa; done
<foobarry> ./configure; make hairball
<MartijnVdS> there's an "emerge" joke in there too
<Myrtti> http://www.stanleycolors.com/2013/10/halloween-costumes-programmers-people/
<popey> haah, they're great
<Myrtti> carbon fiber is amazing.
<MartijnVdS> So is fibre optic cable ;)
<foobarry> so are crisps
<popey> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-dragonfly-futurefon--3
<popey> *boggle*
<foobarry> why isn't chrome remembering my passwords anymore?
<BigRedS> because security
<MartijnVdS> Google alzheimer
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: 1mm knitting pins. How does it even work!
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I don't know. ask my mom
<MartijnVdS> she's the family knitting guru
<Myrtti> I just got a pack of them and by golly they're thin
<foobarry> missis wants a jumbo flyer now
<foobarry> this knitting malarkey so Â£Â£Â£
<foobarry> and my house smells of farmyard
<Myrtti> popey: indiegogo flexible funding... all flags are up
<foobarry> that girl has annoying accent.
<diddledan> popey: the aspect ratio on the dual screen mode will be weird
<popey> the non-existence of it will be more of an issue I fear
<foobarry> pyramid scheme of selling
<foobarry> 99$
<foobarry> hah too late sucker
<foobarry> also, ARM or Intel?
<foobarry> or both
<diddledan> foobarry: it seems at least part of it runs android and another part can run windows
<diddledan> but. windows does arm now so meh
<foobarry> does it?
<foobarry> windwos RT
<foobarry> != windows
<lubotu3> For discussion on Microsoft software, or help with same, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg lubotu3 equivalents
<Myrtti> the girl is almost certainly a paid actress I think
<foobarry> so full spec windows requires a denser motherboard than a black hole
<foobarry> detachable phablet
<foobarry> all seems too far fetched
<foobarry> and idealistic
<foobarry> umm
<foobarry> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-if-convertible-by-idealfuture-3-devices-2-screens-1-data-plan
<foobarry> what's going on there?
<diddledan> "Double the Resolution: when combined, the Dragonfly provides over 12 inches of vivid sapphire crystal protected display area."
<diddledan> they claim the windows bit will run an x86
<popey> so yeah, lolz
<diddledan> the "girl in the video" is supposedly here: https://www.indiegogo.com/individuals/4815558
<diddledan> I like the photo of the style you'd get in a dating scam of her in a car so you can't tell anything about her surroundings but makes it look like she is a social person by being outdoors
<foobarry> and she has tattoos and stuff
<foobarry> i can't work out what happened with the one from last year
<foobarry> did they deliver anything?
<diddledan> I think the one from a year ago just got reposted
<diddledan> they look remarkably alike
<diddledan> right down to the "specs"
<foobarry> what package provides the basic sans/monospace fonts etc?
<foobarry> x11 fonts?
<popey> dpkg -S /path/to/fontfile
<popey> if you already have it
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> think it was urw or ghostscript fonrts
<foobarry> hmm now not so sure
<Azelphur> so, did anyone hear the fighter jet?
<mapps> ugh
<popey> wat?
<mapps> just done spinning..sweating like a pig
<mapps> :D
<popey> https://twitter.com/RoyalAirForceUK/status/527517938056966144
<popey> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> popey: yep
<mapps> work site went down again
<mapps> :D
<mapps> every time its a big night..goes down
<diddledan> popey: Azelphur: I'm glad they're doing what they can to keep us safe
<diddledan> plus points for sonic shenanigans
<diddledan> we need more sonic booms at random times
<diddledan> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11196635/RAF-Typhoons-escort-foreign-plane-into-Stansted-Airport.html <-- nice intercept of calm pilot relaying instructions that end with "or you will be shot down"
<mapps> :D
<mapps> dont get why my raspberry pi stopped responding ip hadnt changed..wireless was on ip the same etc..someone went round to check
<diddledan> much respect to the military!
<mapps> i can ssh to it now its been rebooted..but thats no good i need it to run 24/7
<diddledan> my server died early this morning. I've not had a chance to figure out what's wrong with it yet
<mapps> the wireless was on..and i could acces my ip cam showing my lounge..but the pi just dead yet it was on when my friend went round
<mapps> but apache/vpn wouldnt respond
<diddledan> kernel panic?
<mapps> mainly want it to bypass country restrictions..watching the apprentice etc
<mapps> and when i go to russia..pretty sure loads will be blocked there..latvia blocked quite a bit
<mapps> how would i check..dmesg|
<mapps> ?
<diddledan> I'm not sure you can once rebooted
<mapps> ah
<mapps> damn
<mapps> couldnt access twitter couldnt access works websitre etc
<mapps> all came back blocked wherever i had wifi in latvia
<diddledan> you know movie age ratings? what age range is "appropriate audiences"?
<mapps> hm
<mapps> what film says that
<diddledan> many trailers do
<diddledan> the green thing that pops up before a trailer
<awilkins> BBFC ratings are U, PG, 12A, 15, 18
<diddledan> yeah I think this is american
<awilkins> I see "G" on Netflix content
<awilkins> For "Generally suitable"
<awilkins> Although I've also seen it applied to a whole bunch of Anime that has more fanservice than I'm comfortable exposing to a 10 year old
<diddledan> this is the example that reminded me: http://vimeo.com/108591141
<awilkins> Permission denied
<foobarry> guys. i have a tub of polyfilla that dried out quite a bit, it's soft but firm
<foobarry> can i rehydrate it?
<diddledan> try this one: https://citizenfourfilm.com/trailer/
<diddledan> foobarry: www.dioralyte.co.uk
<awilkins> Guessing that it's the same as PG
<mapps> is that a cinema rls heard of it but dunno much about this citizen four film
<awilkins> Citizen Four is about Edward Snowden, no?
<diddledan> foobarry: I made that site
<diddledan> foobarry: it sucks
<diddledan> yes it is
<awilkins> http://www.mpaa.org/film-ratings/
<awilkins> MPAA don't list a rating like that
<awilkins> How grand
<awilkins> Maybe it's some special "info-terrorist" rating
<awilkins> "Only watch this film if you LIKE colonic examinations for the presence of thumbdrives at the airport."
<diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailer_(promotion)#MPAA_Rating_cards_for_theatrical_trailers
<awilkins> Ah, so it means the trailer is OK for the film you are watching
<awilkins> Basically pointless out of context
<diddledan> so why include the banner on an internet video?!
<diddledan> it's silly
<awilkins> Getting screen softlocks on my laptop
<awilkins> Annoying
<awilkins> They just stop the rendering
<awilkins> They don't stop the event loops in the UI
<diddledan> I'm getting those on my macbook pro too
<diddledan> (when in ubuntu)
<awilkins> You can fix them by ctrl-alt-F1 and ctrl-alt-F7
<diddledan> does apport catch them at all?
<awilkins> No
<diddledan> it does on mine
<awilkins> Reckon it's to do with this
<awilkins> [25923.628159] ACPI Warning: \_SB_.PCI0.PEGP.DGFX._DSM: Argument #4 type mismatch - Found [Buffer], ACPI requires [Package] (20140424/nsarguments-95)
<awilkins> Oh, liking the new terminal feature
<awilkins> When you resize scrollback that was too wide it now reflows it
<awilkins> Aha : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1310762
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1310762 in linux (Ubuntu) "[HP ZBook 15 Mobile Workstation] Ubuntu 14.04 random freeze and lock up" [Low,Incomplete]
<Sockseven> Anyone know how to get the ram channel configuration on linux?
<awilkins> How do you configure your laptop to only use the Intel integrated graphics?
<holly> im a newbie to ubuntu i installed ubuntu 14 a week ago its now very slow and constantly freezing  i dont know what to do
 * awilkins has switched to Intel only in nvidia-settings
<holly> anybody help me
<holly> speed up my ubuntu keeps freezing
<awilkins> holly, Is the disk thrasing?
<holly> only used it a weeek
<holly> no
<awilkins> holly, Laptop?
<holly> i keep browising internet etc but it keeps freezing
<holly> yes laptop
<awilkins> Laptop with one of those combo / Intel / NVidia GPU sets?
<holly> dont now my laptop is a packard bell easynote TE69KB series
<awilkins> Test for you, when it freezes, does ctrl-alt-F1 , ctrl-alt-F7 unfreeze it
<holly> it had windows 8 installed in it
<holly> but i got a friend to install ubuntu
<holly> he did it in about 30 mins was ok at first now it keeps freezing very slow as well
<holly> ohhh ok
<holly> ill write that down
<holly> but do you get viruses with ubuntu?
<awilkins> While they are technically possible, if you only install packages from the official archives they should be virtually impossible
<holly> i installed bleachbit but dont really know what it is
<holly> problem is i dont know how to install it
<holly> uninstall it
<holly> is there a programme like ccleaner which i use for windows for ubuntu
<holly> any alternative
<holly> i clear the history but it is still slow
<holly> and freezes
<diddledan> awilkins: my optimus seems fully supported on my work laptop with the nvidia proprietary (NOT the proprietary-updates) with utopic
<diddledan> I just this second installed that to test it
<awilkins> Hmm. I think I was getting the lockups with nouveau as well
<awilkins> Have configured it to be Intel only and they seem to have stopped
<awilkins> Scrolling in browser seems smoother as well
<mapps> lol modern familys so funny
<mapps> one of the few series thats still good after 6 seasons
<diddledan> completely off-the-wall question but to anyone's anecdotal knowledge has canonical or some other actor ever considered adopting seamless live kernel upgrades similar to what suse and redhat are investigating and oracle already does with unbreakable+uptrack?
<diddledan> uptrack - that should be ksplice
<popey> thats a lot of work
<diddledan> yeah, as far as I can see it requires lots of engineering on every update to ensure it applies seamlessly
<popey> exactly
<diddledan> it's a cool concept tho
<diddledan> manpower is going to be the issue I guess
<diddledan> and brains
 * popey notes 358 days uptime on a canonical box, and assumes it has ksplice
<popey> pretty sure they patented it too
<diddledan> it annoyed me that oracle bought them and closed it off
<diddledan> you can still get the uptrack client for "desktop ubuntu" as a proof of concept
<diddledan> or rather you could last I looked
<diddledan> I'm gonna go looking now
<diddledan> looks like they're only working with LTS these days
<popey> wise
<shauno> it seems less practical to have an uptime fetish on non-LTS releases, given the 9 month support cycle now
<diddledan> point
<brobostigon> new pebble android app update, no breakage yet.
<diddledan> I just got confirmation of "fix committed" on a bug I created and resolved https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geos/+bug/1274916
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1274916 in geos (Ubuntu) "missing php library support" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<diddledan> my patch was the bases of the updated debian package
<diddledan> basis
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-30
<shauno> 1am and I'm reading the source for apache-tomcat.  shoot me?
<daftykins> gimme an address and i'll come do it
<shauno> heh
<daftykins> maybe a gun too
<daftykins> just to be sure :>
<daftykins> i'm watching the world series final!
<daftykins> join me!
<daftykins> http://www.stream2watch.me/baseball/san-francisco-giants-vs-kansas-city-royals-live-stream
<shauno> git://git.apache.org/tomcat60.git  come join me!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> is this your dropped java clients issue still?
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> did a test client shed no light on the auth issue?
<shauno> sort of.  the dimmest, dingiest of lights
<daftykins> hrmm
<shauno> it seems to be a 'quirk' in tomcat
<shauno> you don't specify your ciphersuite as a list of ciphers, like in a real server.  you can only ask for a vague set of families
<shauno> so you have the family 'ALL', which maps to SSL+TLS
<shauno> the family 'SSL' maps to SSLv2,SSLv3.  the family TLS maps to TLSv1,TLSv1.1,TLSv1.2
<shauno> so logically, we can just specify 'TLS' and we're happy!
<daftykins> ugh so you can't even hardcode a specific version to be sure
<shauno> except for some *family same* reason, 'TLS' also maps to SSLv3
<shauno> *safe
<daftykins> uuuuuuuugh
<shauno> so we now we have to specify TLSv1,TLSv1.1,TLSv1.2
<shauno> now comes the fun parts.  some parts of TLS aren't mapped to any of these names, and only mapped to 'TLS'
<daftykins> can tomcat be recompiled without SSL entirely? or is that off the cards
<shauno> so if we ask for 'TLS', it gives us SSLv3 for free.  if we don't ask for 'TLS', we don't get all the parts of TLS we need
<daftykins> that's derp.
<shauno> specifically, when the client offers TLS_RSA_WITH_RC4_128_MD5,  this doesn't appear to match "tlsv1,tlsv1.1,tlsv1.2".  but it does match 'tls'
<shauno> so right now, my only suggestion is that they stick another box infront that does https-offloading
<shauno> and take ssl off tomcat completely as it apparently can't be trusted with scissors
<daftykins> yarr, or some VPN option if possible
<daftykins> but a bit overkill for a web app i guess
<shauno> vpn's not really an option, it's customer-facing to large  (150,000-ish) number of clients
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> which is also why "upgrade the clients" isn't a readily available option :/
<daftykins> =[
<daftykins> shame to have to add a link to the chain, but it does sound like the easiest
<shauno> it might actually be a good thing, their current 'load balancer' is dns-roundrobin
<shauno> so if they can justify putting another box in front of them, they might be able to find something that could pass an IQ test while they're there
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> i remember a Uni professor laughing at a student for trying to claim DNS was a legit load balancing technique
<shauno> bah, shutting the work laptop off - no good can come of this
<daftykins> shauno: :D no sleep for you then?
<zmoylan-pi> sleep is for non-insomniacs
<popey> \o/
<shauno> I don't 'work' until the weekend now, so sleep is .. flexible
<daftykins> baseball it is then!
<daftykins> popey: bit early/late for you sir? :)
<popey> gosh!
<popey> look at the time
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> http://www.stream2watch.me/baseball/san-francisco-giants-vs-kansas-city-royals-live-stream
<daftykins> get some baseball in yer
<shauno> I'm no doctor, but that doesn't sound safe
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> shauno: that was even better because baseball pun :(
<shauno> really?
<shauno> I can't decide if I should go to bed, or make a start on all the TV shows that my thingie's grabbed now that I've figured out they stopped because no space left on device
<daftykins> ! which thingy has committed this crime?
<lubotu3> daftykins: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<daftykins> oh shh
<zmoylan-pi> ...no space on device.  sounds like time to add more storage
<shauno> nah, just delete more stuff :)
<shauno> once you hit 4G of tv shows, the answer isn't more G, it's less TV shows
<zmoylan-pi> delete!?!  who are you the cia accessing senate computers? :-p
<shauno> er, not G .. it's a 4tb disk
<zmoylan-pi> run handbrake to render the downloads to a smaller format and delete the larger files
<daftykins> i sadly went with the more storage option
<daftykins> now at 10TB ;x
<shauno> easier just to admit that there's many shows I have no desire to watch again
<daftykins> ^
<zmoylan-pi> one day we'll look at the petabyte drives at home and wonder how we ever managed with such small tb drives
<zmoylan-pi> and there's lots of shows you can watch again and again
<shauno> right :)  they're the ones I didn't delete
<shauno> "boy meets world", however ..
<daftykins> aww i wanted to get BMW
<shauno> write once run awaywhere my anatomy :/
<zmoylan-pi> write once, tweak everywhere?
<shauno> I can't figure out how to get openjdk7 on my debian boxes to build something that'll run on these java6 machines :)
<daftykins> shauno: 'write once, debug everywhere' :D
<daftykins> we were just talking about the Hoover Dam in another channel, which i visited back in 2012. have a look if y'like :) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/se578v7skbsx1wa/AAD77mPD2Rlx_H0937GjbY5Ua?dl=0
<daftykins> i took some very jammy shots on a really neat tour down inside the place
<zmoylan-pi> scouting for the dambusters?
<shauno> neat :)
<shauno> they haven't /quite/ figured out what a hoover is, but still neat
<daftykins> it's a brand!
<mapps> cant wait to be back at WHL
<daftykins> damn, Kansas lost.
<mapps> #TTID #THFC as all the cool kids say:D
<daftykins> those best not be hash tags :(
<mapps> i said as alll the cool kids say
<mapps> so TTID THFC YIDARMY WHL :D
<mapps> no hashtags
<daftykins> hopefully my disappearing serves as as-good a response there ;)
<zmoylan-pi> so... not a fan of hashtags then?
<mapps> heh
<nigelb> 23
<nigelb> (gah)
<OERIAS> Catholics in the UK?
<Myrtti> yes, there are some, why?
<OERIAS> Thought they were expelled
<OERIAS> or forced into private worship
<Myrtti> you're about 150 years out of date with your information
<Myrtti> if not more
<OERIAS> not necessarily
<OERIAS> I mean I know a lot of people who still have disdain over catholics
<OERIAS> but they can't seem to realise that the church is no different from the church of rom
<OERIAS> *rome
<Myrtti> and your point being?
<OERIAS> I meant, "I can't believe there is discrimination of catholics"
<Myrtti> s/of catholics//
<Myrtti> there, fixed it for you
<Myrtti> we all know there's discrimination of all sorts around, but discriminating based on the religion on a governmental level hasn't (at least in theory) happened for a good while in UK.
<OERIAS> really?
<OERIAS> in some way there is still this social pressure that you have to be member of the Anglican Church
<OERIAS> or simply the old argument "There allegiance is to the pope in rome"
<Myrtti> I'm not saying there isn't.
<Myrtti> but you started your discussion with "thought they were expelled or forced into private worship" which happened because of the laws against Roman Catholicism. Discrimination on a govermental level.
<OERIAS> which is why some people still go to the anglican service
<OERIAS> pretend to be protestant, yet be catholic in secrecy
<Myrtti> ...
<Myrtti> there isn't a religious police knocking down on people's doors giving the whip if they don't go to CoE service twice every Sunday
<Myrtti> don't equate governmental discrimination with the nearby society's prejudices
<OERIAS> i understand that
<OERIAS> it was like that
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Checklist Day! :-D
<Laney> Greet everyone with today's "day": â
<JamesTait> That's it, my work here is done!
<nigelb> http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2014/10/28/security-checklist/
<nigelb> Related.
<davmor2> hug JamesTait â look at the fear on his face â point and laugh â watch his sigh of relief â
 * JamesTait hugs davmor2 back
<JamesTait> Nice, nigelb. :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> o/
<bigcalm> How do?
<bigcalm> Recently passed 1 year of married life. Can't say it's any different to the previous 4 years
<Azelphur> I started going outside a lot more, apparently everyone wants to throw money at me
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> had like 5 job offers of ever increasing value over the past couple weeks
<directhex> i'll pay you tree fiddy and a mars bar to find me a decentish little-endian MIPS build bot
<Azelphur> haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: it is you have your own house now :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I guess. Glad that's finally happened. But it wasn't due to marriage that we're here.
<bigcalm> davmor2: Amo was at the LUG last night
<davmor2> bigcalm: how is he?
<bigcalm> Seems okay
<bigcalm> I guess he's ready to reintegrate into social life
<davmor2> bigcalm: well I think marriage makes things feel more permanent and therefore might aid with those types of decisions :)  not saying it influenced anything just saying :)
<directhex> it's an excuse for a party.
<marxjohnson>  /exit
<marxjohnson> bah
<davmor2> directhex: I thought it was a way to get your amazon wishlist pile down a bit?
<directhex> that too
<bigcalm> Well, if you want to help on that: http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/LXT6MFP2WUWA
<bigcalm> Not checking my get_iplayer directory means I have 18 weeks of Nemone's Electric Ladyland to listen to. Happy days :)
<directhex> how can i get a raspberry pi today?
<directhex> like, not 3 days' delivery time. today.
<nigelb> buy me a flight ticket to london
<nigelb> I should be able to give you mine :P
<nigelb> oh wait, no enough hours to reach today.
<ali12341> directhex: go maplins and buy one?
<directhex> ali12341: "web only" according to maplin.co.yk
<directhex> uk
<ali12341> rubbish, i've seen them in the sops
<ali12341> *shops
<ali12341> the web price might be web only
<directhex> none in stock in banbury, stratford upon avon, northampton, oxford, rugby, MK, coventry, aylesbury, redditch, solihull, nuneaton, cheltenham
<directhex> oh. the obscenely priced "starter kit". of course.
<ali12341> there's a B+ in hammersmith
<davmor2> bigcalm: I remember the album cover for that fond memories :)
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Oh, I see
<bigcalm> davmor2: how old where you when you in your memories?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know about 8 onwards it was my moms album :)
<bigcalm> Cor
<bigcalm> Bit of a surprise cover
<bigcalm> Surprise to me that is
<marxjohnson> popey: I'm now using fish by default
<marxjohnson> awesome feature number 2 is typing "command --<tab>" and getting a list of flags with descriptions
<popey> yes!
<popey> its great isn't it?
<marxjohnson> I remember reading about it years ago in LXF and thinking it looked fun, but never used it in earnest
<zmoylan-pi> a linux shell WITH help? what blasphemy is this?! :-)
<popey> i want to "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade", but only need to "su" and press â and it's done
<marxjohnson> same here :)
<marxjohnson> It's a bit like coding with Visual Studio
<popey> Get out.
<marxjohnson> sorry <open source IDE with slightly less good prediction features>
<foobarry> wow, car insurance a lot cheaper this year
<foobarry> first time under Â£300 in many years
<popey> blimey, mine's always about 200/220
<foobarry> i get all the bits like legal cover
<foobarry> and london
<popey> renewed mine yesterday and it was Â£217
<popey> not london, 5K miles/yr and parked on drive
<popey> also, old fart car
<foobarry> yeah, i am most of those but london
<zmoylan-pi> wow, they should pay you for making their stats look so good :-)
<foobarry> no claims 10+ years
<foobarry> although i protect no claims
<foobarry> extra hit of @25
<foobarry> fully comp popey ?
<popey> ya
<popey> 9 years no claims
<ujjain> anybody ever had a blackberry playbook here? is it a normal micro-usb charger?
<foobarry> oh comparethemarket is Â£4 cheaper but has a meerkat
<foobarry> i remember reading that different compare sites will get different prices now
<foobarry> so you have to do them all ..even more so
<foobarry> at least they now require password rather than email and DOB
<MooDoo> howdy all
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> :D
<brobostigon> afternoodlings MooDoo
<MooDoo> you ok brobostigon ?
<popey> MooDoo: typo in your blog post.... "Debian I used apt-get install debian"
<brobostigon> my eczema could be better, otherwise ok. and you MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> popey: doh! thanks
<popey> listening to very loud music on ubuntu phone \o/
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yes I'm fine thanks.  just tinkering with backups/debian lol
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> popey: i'm listening to dubstep for some unknown reason on spotify lol
 * brobostigon is watching the last few weeks of new TBBT eps.
<popey> dont think I've ever listened to dubstep
<popey> maybe for 10s
<popey> then all of my "nope"
<brobostigon> me neither.
<MooDoo> if you like thump thump wop wop wop then you'll like this lol
<popey> link
<popey> lets see how long I can stomach this sony â»
<MooDoo> https://play.spotify.com/user/spotify/playlist/6iFNvTHtyKvexTwEpEZwl7
 * dutchie back to unity from gnome-shell
<popey> made it 1:30 in and thought ARRRRRGHHH
<popey> will keep listening
<MooDoo> no your about right....it's very arrrrrghhh
<popey> haha
<MooDoo> giives me an excuse to be wound up and punch people when they come into the office with a tech problem...lol
<MooDoo> except when they phone me up from the other end of the building raaaaa lol
<popey> ok, managed 3 tracks
 * popey goes back to a bit of INXS
 * zmoylan-pi puts this weeks welcome to our village, please invade carefully on phone
<MooDoo> popey: not listen to kick in ages
<popey> yeah, plucked out of nowhere
<popey> also grabbed a bit of Erasure. My bro has a spare ticket, might go and see them.
<safiyyah> need help making and compiling a software in order to add it
<safiyyah> am stuck
<safiyyah> is anyone about
<davmor2> safiyyah: you may need to be more specific
<davmor2> popey: you mystify me
<safiyyah> I am am trying to install a game called pyawale, its based on python
<safiyyah> I downloaded the file and extracted it
<bigcalm> Tower of Guns is fun
<safiyyah> I real the installation file which came with it and it told me to run sudo python setup.py install
<safiyyah>  
<safiyyah> anyway the game is installed but not running,
<mfraz74> doing the upgrade from 14.04 to 14.10 and the upgrade is stuck on "configuring update-notifier-common" at 0%
<davmor2> MooDoo: I like https://play.spotify.com/track/22HYEJveCvykVDHDiEEmjZ for getting wound up :)
<safiyyah> brings an error. I think the issue is that I didn't go through a make and compile before installing
<safiyyah> but I can't seem to do it
<safiyyah> help please
<MooDoo> dear coffee, next time, please stay in the cup, that's where you belong.
<davmor2> safiyyah: it's avaiable in universe why don't you just install it from there
<safiyyah> davmor2 I searched and didn't see it
<safiyyah> Sd1215225
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> davmor2, have I missed the addition on universe in my repositories?
<davmor2> safiyyah: it's part of pygame
<MooDoo> safiyyah: http://askubuntu.com/questions/148638/how-do-i-enable-the-universe-repository
<safiyyah> moodoo, how do I remove the damage I have already caused?
<davmor2> safiyyah: a wait no it isn't sorry when you click on the download link it just takes you to pygame
<MooDoo> i've not read scroll back, what you done?  if you've just tried to compile something, just remove the src?
<safiyyah> Moodoo I ran sudo python setup.py install
<davmor2> safiyyah: so you need to install pygame first then you run the install instructions and then it should just work
<safiyyah> MooDoo universe is already enabled but it isn't coming up.... am on kubuntu btw
<safiyyah> I mean Xubuntu
<safiyyah> davmor2,  I have installed pygame it was the first thing I checked for
<davmor2> safiyyah: how did you run python setup.py install
<safiyyah> The installation went through fine on the terminal but when you try to start the game it says it can't launch Failed to execute child process "pyawale" (No such file or directory)
<davmor2> safiyyah: if it is installing it in the python modules dir then you would need to run sudo python setup.py install I think
<safiyyah> is there a way to get the terminal history so I can put it on pastebin?
<davmor2> safiyyah: history
<davmor2> safiyyah: or press the up arrow
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8747853/
<safiyyah> line 109 - 111 returned errors
<popey> not surprised
<MooDoo> did you use the instructions on the pygame site?
<davmor2> safiyyah: just try typing pyawale in the terminal and hitting enter
<bigcalm> Wow - Jazzpunk is amazing :D
<MooDoo> http://www.pygame.org/wiki/CompileUbuntu?parent=Compilation
<safiyyah> davmor2 that returns command not found
<davmor2> safiyyah: look at the link that MooDoo just posted
<popey> it works here
<popey> all I did was this:-
<popey> download the tgz...
<popey> tar zxvf pyawale-0.4.0.tar.gz
<popey> cd pyawale-0.4.0/
<popey> sudo python setup.py install --prefix /usr/local
<popey> sudo apt-get install python-pygame
<popey> src/pyawale.py
<popey> game runs...
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8747916/
<safiyyah> What does ffmpeg' has no installation candidate mean?
<daftykins> there's no package with that name
<safiyyah> hmmm okay
<bigcalm> I've just seen a little girl take her scooter for a _walk_ around my cul-de-sac
<daftykins> because ffmpeg got replaced by something else, av something... can't remember the name
<popey> why you installing ffmpeg?
<daftykins> bigcalm: scooters need love too
<davmor2> popey: dependency list from MooDoo link
<popey> but...
<popey> why follow that?
<popey> you don't want that
<davmor2> popey: because MooDoo was trying to help and got that link
<popey> ok. well thats for compiling pygame
 * MooDoo shuts up :D
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> am doing mooDoos link
<popey> dont
<popey> you dont want to do that
<safiyyah> do you guys want me to abandon it?
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> sorry
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8747956/ should work
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8747960/
<safiyyah> Thats what I got up to
<safiyyah> apparently my python is not new enough
<popey> no, you ran python3
<popey> you want python2.7
<popey> so it's "not old enough" â»
<safiyyah> i thought so too popey.... but was following link okay starting again with yours this time
<popey> http://www.boycottlinux.org/ oh dear
<safiyyah> popey last command run the game no problem, but the graphical link still brings an error
<popey> what link?
<safiyyah> when you clock on menu > games? pyawale
<Myrtti> Nature Valley Coconut Crunch bar â¥
<safiyyah> when you clock on menu > games> pyawale
<safiyyah> that doesn't load the game
<safiyyah> should we manually tell it which command to run, I don't want the kids on the terminal
<popey> heh
<safiyyah> reaping harvoc on my very perfect xubuntu
<safiyyah> lol
<popey> hmm, strange.
<safiyyah> trying the menu editor popey
<safiyyah> popey, even stranger.... it's not in the menu editor!!!!
<popey> does it run if you do the ./src//pyawale.py  ?
<popey> it's not a very good version of Awale...
<safiyyah> popey, yes it runs.... but dont want kids on the terminal
<safiyyah> they just discovered the game at a friend house who has the actual board and stuff.... check online prices and they are extortionate. so we want a computer version until someone goes on holiday to west africa... only costs a Â£5
<safiyyah> dont understand why its Â£60 here
<safiyyah> lol
<popey> my mum had the game when I was a kid
<popey> she still does i think
<popey> 10 quid on amazon
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pressman-Toy-International-4428-06-Mancala/dp/B00004TFZJ/
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toys-Pure-Folding-Wooden-Kalaha/dp/B000EGFM8K even less
<popey> its one of those games that's better played in real life imo
<safiyyah> oh the 6.95 is nice.
<safiyyah> will get that one
<popey> heh
<popey> tempted myself.
<safiyyah> kids are hooked
 * popey adds to wishlist
<safiyyah> popey I need peace. the sooner I buy it the better lol
<daftykins> XD
<popey> ooh, chinese chequers and solitaire too
<popey> hah
<daftykins> i doubt you can say Chinese in this day and age ;)
<bigcalm> Does that go for French toast?
<bigcalm> And Welsh rarebit?
<daftykins> you never know these days :D
<bigcalm> Scotch eggs
<safiyyah> popey http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unique-hand-carved-Decorated-Vintage-wood-folding-Mancala-game-Oware
<popey> that link doesnt work for me
<bigcalm> Listing has been removed
<safiyyah> its on for me
<safiyyah> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ashanti-Stool-with-carved-Gye-Nyame-stand-Mahogany-/221398268878?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item338c5d7bce
<popey> wow, thats nice
<bigcalm> Goodness
<safiyyah> am reposting the first link http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unique-hand-carved-Decorated-Vintage-wood-folding-Mancala-game-Oware-Kalah-/301373241508?pt=Games_US&hash=item462b3eb8a4
<popey> nice
<safiyyah> popey I think the Â£6 will get me peace for now and anyone flying out can get me a proper thing
<popey> hehe
<safiyyah> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STRATEGY-GAME-Traditional-Oware-Game-Authentic-AFRICAN-/310774896939?pt=Games_US&hash=item485ba0992b
<safiyyah> see everything I like is expensive!!!
<safiyyah> yeah thanks popey. Â£6 is the price of peace this time
<popey> np
<popey> ooh, like that one
<safiyyah> yep
<safiyyah> some nice African design solid wood
<safiyyah> now how do we purge the one on the computer?
<an0key> reply 09 Sure - done
<an0key> wrong window
<safiyyah> popey http://paste.ubuntu.com/8748297/
<safiyyah> It can't find the thing!
<safiyyah> same with the wierd icon
<popey> its not installed via apt, so you wont
<safiyyah> oh it has to be installed via there
<safiyyah> didn't know that
<popey> sudo rm /usr/local/bin/pyawale.py
<popey> that'll get rid
<safiyyah> it's gone except for the mysterious one on the menu > games section
<popey> maybe that's in /usr/share/applications ?
<safiyyah> popey not in there!
<safiyyah> am looking for it too
<safiyyah> dolphin is nicer looking for navigation, but cant beat the power of nautilus
<safiyyah> several directories popey /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyawale
<safiyyah> /usr/local/share/doc
<popey> wonder if it can be "uninstalled".. lets see
<safiyyah> /usr/local/share/doc/pyawale/
<safiyyah> those are the two directories everything is in
<safiyyah> popey so that's $ sudo rm /usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/pyawale
<safiyyah> ?
<davmor2> popey: setup.py --help there might be an uninstall option
<popey> yeah, already looked.
<safiyyah> davmor2,  that returns: command not found
<popey> safiyyah: yeah
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> halifax own me: current account, savings, mortgage, house insurance and now car insurance
<foobarry> not quite sure how that all happened
<foobarry> don't exactly get benefits from the custom
<safiyyah> popey is rm not a good idea?
<popey> safiyyah: i didnt say that â»
<safiyyah> well can I do it?
<popey> sure
<safiyyah> popey, The blasted thing is still there!
<safiyyah> erm, how about opening a root nautilus and deleting everything graphically?
<davmor2> safiyyah: whats still there?
<safiyyah> the menu option
<safiyyah> Ah.... popey there is one in usr/local/share/applications
<davmor2> safiyyah: have a look in /usr/share/applications
<safiyyah> looks like you were right
<popey> â»
<safiyyah> the rm command doesnt work  says no such file in directory
<safiyyah> but it's in nautilus!
<davmor2> safiyyah: sudo rm will be needed there
<safiyyah> davmor2, I did
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8748638/
<davmor2> safiyyah: it's pyawale.desktop
<safiyyah> finally it's gone
<safiyyah> davmor2, why do we need to add .desktop?
<safiyyah> didn't quite get it
<davmor2> safiyyah: it's a desktop file, ie an icon that shows on the desktop in the good old days.  So nautilus and dolphin both know this so will only show the bit you would see from the desktop  ie name of app not name of file
<bigcalm> davmor2: xubuntu, not ubuntu
<safiyyah> davmor2 also what is the command to remove a directory that is not empty
<safiyyah> sudo rmdir doesnt work
<davmor2> safiyyah: you don't want to do it unless you are sure the stuff in the dir is waste but rm -rf will do it
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap I know that but the applications folder only really contains .desktop files for the all the apps
<safiyyah> its the pyawale files
<safiyyah> thanks davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: sorry, didn't know if you'd seen the xunbutu reference or not
<safiyyah> popey, davmor2  this little mishap taught me a fair bit today. Thank you guys. I still don't know how to compile and run but will come back when I need it
<popey> heh
<popey> have fun
<safiyyah> :)
<Azelphur> hmm, does Lyft not work in the UK? I tried to enter my number in it and it won't let me because my number is too long
<MartijnVdS> probably?
<zmoylan-pi> enter it in hex? :-p
<Azelphur> lol
<foobarry> what's lyft? like uber?
<daftykins> think so
<daftykins> i don't get the benefit, personally
<foobarry> i use an oyster card for that
<foobarry> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pi-top-a-raspberry-pi-laptop-you-build-yourself
<foobarry> munneh
<foobarry> :S
<zmoylan-pi> i want something that looks more like a z88 than a more traditional laptop
<Azelphur> in soviet my house, heating pays you https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=34f2f11adf05aaff7528dda0be690985 :D
<Azelphur> also that PSU is a beast, it's supplying 814W according according to power monitor, but it's only a 800W supply
<daftykins> what on earth
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> is that three dual GPU cards?
<zmoylan-pi> it's a trap to lure out any cats hiding around his house who won't be able to resist the heat :-)
<daftykins> :O!
<diddledan> Azelphur: is that a mining rig?
<Azelphur> yea, albeit an old and crap one
<diddledan> still, it looks the business! :-D
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> pushing it to the limit, 850W supply drawing 814W at the wall
<popey> directhex: any idea what runs on the microsoft band? is it c# based stuff?
<directhex> honestly: no idea
<zmoylan-pi> the sdk hasn't been announced yet, has it?
<popey> 19:23:14 < zmoylan-pi> i want something that looks more like a z88 than a more traditional laptop
<popey> +1
<popey> or amstrad nc100
<zmoylan-pi> had an nc100, nice bit of hardware
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Amstrad-NC100-Notepad-computer-Good-Working-Cond-Inc-Case-/311132165356
<zmoylan-pi> i got it for a friend who wanted mobile but couldn't afford a laptop of the day.  got the nc100 in end of line folks morgan.  she loved sitting in park working away all day
<zmoylan-pi> but a rasp pi in a nc100/z88/dana format would allow access to a LOT more hardware and software
<popey> golly http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-VINTAGE-MGT-SAM-COUPE-COMPUTER-MINT-BOXED-/291007331656
<popey> 800 notes
<diddledan> microsoft band?
<diddledan> have I missed a launch?
<popey> http://microsoft.com/band
<diddledan> that looks quite featurefull (if you're a fitness fan)
<zmoylan-pi> a fitbit knockoff that shows how many service packs need to be installed or the time :-)
<diddledan> the advert is good
<diddledan> I'm going to graduate uni just so I can be that girl graduating uni with mom and dad texting her
<diddledan> ok, that's a lie
<diddledan> I'm not that committed
<diddledan> they seem to have crammed a lot of electronics into it - with half of all that being in the strap
<zmoylan-pi> with batteries been so... blasty i wonder when we'll see the first smart watch explode
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: that could cause some major injury
#ubuntu-uk 2014-10-31
<map> hu ak
<map> hi all
<map> urgh
<diddledan> when a prank call ends with the correct response: http://www.xolxol.ph/2014/10/emergency-hotline-911-receives-pizza-order-from-lady-who-needs-help.html?m=0
<diddledan> (actually do read it - it's awesome!)
<diddledan> this looks awesome
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNExF5WYMaA&list=PLpTga61DBp6DlTs1DeWk3ian3h6J2z4X0
<diddledan> oh dear, that's bad, I used "awesome" twice within two sentences
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> morgah
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite prank call was the reverse prank call where the receiver of the call pretended to be a cop at a horrible crime scene who started questioning the telemarketer as if they were implicated in the crime.  http://www.maniacworld.com/Best-Telemarketer-Prank-Ever.html
<foobarry> weird. you know when you always take the same train, and then one day you take the early train, and all your usual train people are on it? i know truman show has limited actors, but...
<foobarry> train wasn't delayed or anything
<zmoylan-pi> when the universe syncs around you to some unknown minor event
<foobarry> is there a name for that?
<popey> yes
<popey> Coincidence.
<foobarry> is there another name for that feeling though?
<foobarry> egocentricity :P
<hazrpg> I have an encrypted drive, and when I recently changed my password... I try to login but it shows ".ICEauthority can't  update" or something like that, and when I check its because my home isn't being decrypted, how do I solve this?
<popey> hazrpg: how is it encrypted? ecryptfs?
<DJones> foobarry: Another name for it (assuming you don't like your regular passengers) is bad luck :)
<hazrpg> popey: yeah
<hazrpg> popey: yeah, its ecryptfs.
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/281491/cant-log-in-after-password-change-ecryptfs
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Magic Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<davmor2> MooDoo: listen to a little Lazard 4 o'clock in the morning :)
<foobarry> whats the command to switch to the previous directory?
<foobarry> in bash?
<foobarry> cd -
<foobarry> got it
<brobostigon> cd ..
<foobarry> previous , rather than parent
<foobarry> cd - does it
<brobostigon> ok,
<MooDoo> davmor2: ok playing
<map> can i scp -r a whole dir?
<map> wanted to copy all of htdocs folder to a diff machine
<jpds> map: Use rsync.
<map> hm never used rsync before only heard of it
<map> :D
<diddledan> I use rsync as part of my deployment and development scripts
<diddledan> VERY regularly
<map> hnm
<map> il have a read up
<map> hopefully not too hard..i remember hearing in the ubuntu uk podcast it can resume transers i seem to recall someone said it can even resume broken scps
<map> ?
<popey> rsync is awesome
<map> was what i said right? or am i remembering wrong
<popey> yeah, you're right apparently
<popey> this was news to me!
<map> :D
<MooDoo> i like rcync too
<popey> MartijnVdS: is it common in .nl for children to call their parents by name rather than "mum / dad"?
<popey> Sophie said one of her dutch school friends calls her mum by her name
<popey> "but she's dutch" â»
<shauno> I use rsync for pretty much everything.  it handles resumes/partials/changes better than scp (eg, scp doesn't).  handles awkward characters, attributes, etc ..
<MooDoo> popey: i call my mum and dad by their names.
<popey> blimey
<MooDoo> always have realluy
<map> yea i call my ad by his name
<map> *dad
<shauno> we only used names when we had to clarify 'which dad'
<map> i wanted to go to spinning today but wokeup at 12 and felt too tired;[
<map> sucks fri-sun only 1 class a day
<shauno> spinning?  like wool?
<map> like group interval cycling
<map> really popular with women
<map> i was the only guy there on wednesday and i think the only brit ;]
<foobarry> exercise class?
<map> ja
<map> its good
<shauno> http://americangallery.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/woman-at-spinning-wheel.jpg   :)
<map> haha
<Myrtti> â¥
<foobarry> my wife does that
<foobarry> heh, myrrti has hilight
<foobarry> foor wool probably
<Myrtti> no, I just have irssi inbox 0
<foobarry> that could be a picture of my missis
<shauno> that would be slightly creepy
<shauno> (I mean, if I was posting pictures of your family ..)
<popey> irssi inbox 0 never happens for me, unless I hold down ALT+A
<popey> and then it immediately starts
<shauno> you'll hurt your head trying to follow conversations like that
<zmoylan-pi> it's a friday afternoon, we've got broadband and half a cup of coffee.  it's damp out and i've got shopping to do.
<zmoylan-pi> probably best to get to the shops before the christmas decoration go up tomorrow
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: merry christmas ;)
<zmoylan-pi> it's the looped crimbo muzak as you trudge around shops that drives you bonkers :-)
<foobarry> damp where?
<foobarry> its like august sunshine here
<zmoylan-pi> was raining last night in dublin.
<davmor2> popey: there is a 0 on an inbox?  That's some myth surely
<shauno> davmor2: let me introduce you to my friend, ctrl+A  ;)
<davmor2> shauno: I think not
<map> rsync -v -e ssh mark@frogs.zapto.org:/usr/local/apache/htdocs/* /var/www
<map> would that be right?
<MartijnVdS> popey: I think it's 50/50, yes.
<MartijnVdS> popey: (the parents-by-name thing)
<popey> gotcha
<map> Holland was good when i went..but cold :(
<jpds> map: rsync -aPh mark@frogs.zapto.org:/usr/local/apache/htdocs/* /var/www
<map> hm pH what are those for? the guide i read said r ensures recursive
<map> thanks :D will do that
<jpds> P == --progress --partial h = --human-readable.
<map> gonna leave it running whilst i go to the gym..gonna try and rsync 11gb of data from my dell in UK
<map> so -r isnt needed?
<jpds> -r is part of -a == --archive.
<map> ah
<map> :D
<andrewebdev> could I get into some liable issues for this: https://plus.google.com/109285932241172275424/posts/iXXYx4SNsGt
<andrewebdev> (sorry, I know it's slightly off topic, but it's a dedicated UK crowd that probably knows more about liable laws than me)
<map> loading
<map> ;]
<map> dont see how you could if what you say is true
<popey> so https://www.digicodes.com/faqs.html is a copy of http://m.maximuscards.com/faq.html ?
<popey> I'd reply to https://twitter.com/_zenergy/status/506703665583759360 and poke them
<andrewebdev> nah, copy of www.evopoints.co.za
<andrewebdev> they even copied the FAQ word for word
<popey> http://m.maximuscards.com/faq.html also has the same text
<andrewebdev> O.O
<andrewebdev> dafaque
<popey> (found by googling a chunk)
<andrewebdev> ah no it's not exactly the same
<andrewebdev> there's specific text that only relates to our site
<map> someone must be abusing my sky fibre
<map> getting 500k/s
<map> my uk fibres 90mbit and ive got 100mbi here
<map> :D
<popey> http://www.psncardservice.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=lists&catid=19 also
<andrewebdev> yeah, but at least those aren't exact copies. If you look on the Evo site, there is are bits about "why is my credit card rejected"
<andrewebdev> they copied the text, as is, but forgot to add the link (we have a link)
<andrewebdev> anyway, don't want to derail any "ubuntu-centric" topics, so I'll keep quiet now :)
<popey> â»
<popey> its not like there's a flood of conversation right now â»
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> .win 13
<czajkowski> popey: do you have chromecast & ubuntu working?
<daftykins> hrmm, borrowing a mains adapter for that macbook i mentioned i was given
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/LpY1yo5.png
<daftykins> 2.2GHz c2d, 2.5GB RAM, intel graphics, an SSD i put in
<MartijnVdS> (Not charging)
<daftykins> yes the battery is dead
<map> hm
<map> how can i put dig on my pi
<map> cmd isnt there
<daftykins> never heard of it
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install dnsutils
<daftykins> oh *that* dig ;D
<MartijnVdS> (or, apt-file search /usr/bin/dig)
<map> thx MartijnVdS :DD
<davmor2> map: apt install dig?
<map> tried that davmor2 :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: he could have meant The Dig, the Lucasarts adventure game
<davmor2> map: other way is apt search dig
<daftykins> apt-cache
<map> ah
<map> didnt know it would still find even tho diff package name
<map> ta
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: nah "apt" works too now
<daftykins> wat, is that recent?
<MartijnVdS> yea
<daftykins> ugh all these seemingly irrelevant changes
<MartijnVdS> http://mvogt.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/apt-1-0/
<map> can i enable php with a2enmod?
<MartijnVdS> map: yes, but then you have to ask yourself: do you want PHP? Really?
<map> yes for now
<map> :D
<map> didnt see it isted when i typed a2enmod
<daftykins> map seriously mate, learn the proper way not just drip feeds form IRC
<map> lets see
<daftykins> *from
<MartijnVdS> map: there's a whole wiki full of info, both for Ubuntu and Debian
<MartijnVdS> you can do it! :)
<map> i normally just did it manually not using a2enmod
<MartijnVdS> map: you need to install the package first
<MartijnVdS> a2enmod just enables it in apache (which you then need to restart too()
<map> ah
<map> right
<map> il go read
<daftykins> map: you query that router for your VDSL sync speed yet?
<MartijnVdS> [    6.410000] eth0: link up (1000Mbps/Full duplex)
<map> ah no i havent got round to running linux my netbooks low spec ..would dsl or puppy be sufficient?
<map> heh
<MartijnVdS> sadly, I only get 100/100
<map> :D
<MartijnVdS> 93.2/94.2 according to speedtest.net
<MartijnVdS> and this is kind of rush hour, internet wise
<daftykins> map: anything that has miniupnpc
<daftykins> can't trust speedtest.net over here
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: in this case though we're talking line sync speeds versus provisioned service or actual-throughput speed :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah me too :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I get gigabit sync to th exchange, but I get 100/100 service :)
<daftykins> wat
<MartijnVdS> fibre to the home
<map> i rysnched 4gig from my dell to my pi :D yay
<map> hm
<map> my nets mad slow atm
<map> moved my amazing homepage over to my pi now:D basically needed all the cat pics lol
<map> http://frogs.zapto.org
<Azelphur> Hehe, vroom https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=9ae9a59a7022952eb518c286fcdfd104 :)
<shauno> Azelphur: you couldn't find any louder fans?  (also; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FwsIkJCXU&t=85s )
<Azelphur> shauno: haha
<shauno> some of those are crazy.  and I thought I had bad neighbours .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uolRIiXNGjw
<Azelphur> haha that's one way to piss people off
<daftykins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<daftykins> which model does dafty have in front of him, oh the blank row? yep!
<map> yay
<map> my vpn and apache and all working
<map> ;D
<map> hopefully my pi wont crash this time heh
<daftykins> *into flames*
<daftykins> ;D
<vad3rman1156> anyone else waiting for 4G from giffgaff? :D
<map> pfff daftykins
<map> i dunno what happened before wireless was on and pi was on.. diddledan  said maybe a kernel panic..but cant check as rebooted since
<map> ive got 4g on ee but cant use it..in gib =[
<daftykins> lawl 4G
<map> and gib only has 3g LAWL
<daftykins> nothing wrong with HSPA+
<vad3rman1156> daftykins: you no like 4g?
<daftykins> i think it's marketing mostly.
<map> how so?
<vad3rman1156> you could be right :P
<shauno> okay, this made me laugh; Like Linux/i386, 4MB of RAM is the absolute minimum, with 8MB being sufficient for most uses. The X Window System requires a minimum of 12MB of RAM for a usable system.
<daftykins> found where? :)
<map> ;]
<shauno> 1997 :)
<daftykins> that's when, not where!
<shauno> (and they lie, I've installed it in 3MB.  I just needed two floppy drives because I couldn't load the first disk into a ramdisk)
<zmoylan-pi> well i have a rasp pi running raspian and even running the gui desktop and a tonne of apps it's only at 128mb so it's still not too shabby
<shauno> where is http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2090
<map> nice 128 aint bad
<map> what do you use your pi for
<zmoylan-pi> i use it for irc (it sits in kitchen switched on 24x7 connected to phone charger) and rss and now playing with twitter and a few other apps
<zmoylan-pi> it's got 512mb so it's not even breaking a sweat
<zmoylan-pi> i connect to it via ssh and tmux a bunch of console apps from any other computer tablet in the house
<zmoylan-pi> vnc in as well
<shauno> oh dear; seems virgin galactic lost a pilot; bbc.in/1xIBF0G
<daftykins> shauno: heard of macbook touchpads clicking but not moving before at all? :)
<shauno> nope
<daftykins> okie dokie
<shauno> odd one.  does it happen at the boot prompt too?
<daftykins> oh sorry i should've probably qualified that this is upon booting 14.04.1 :)
<shauno> ohhh
<shauno> my experience with linux on macs, is that anyone who claims it works is delusional :)
<shauno> (although there does seem to be many, many such delusional people to contradict me)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> wifi is task #1
<daftykins> pesky broadcom
<MartijnVdS> *shudder8
<MartijnVdS> Atheros however.. <3
<shauno> been playing Road Rash pretty much since I woke up.  I feel 12 again :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> seems like broadcom isn't fun in a live session
<daftykins> or, s/in a live session//
<shauno> the later, I believe :)
<daftykins> lets try installing ubuntu beside OS X without rEFInd!
<shauno> lol
<shauno> please mistress, more!
<zmoylan-pi> if it gets too much drop this orange :-p
<shauno> or just put a real unix on it ;)  *ducks*
<daftykins> shauno: like?
<shauno> well, osx :D
<daftykins> like i said, it's outdated
<daftykins> and a terrible OS :D
<shauno> heh, it's not that bad.  besides their odd bent towards a bsd userland :/
<daftykins> ooh if you use disk utility to resize OS X's HFS volume, ubiquity offers 'install alongside'
<daftykins> \o/
<shauno> other than that, I like to think it's what linux would look like if they could actually agree on anything
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> hmm this thing has a TN panel LCD
<daftykins> eww
<daftykins> have i mentioned i love USB -> SSD installs? :D
<zmoylan-pi> nothing like installing from a stack of floppies nearly a foot high
<daftykins> well well well, working boot menu
<zmoylan-pi> uttering prayers to the gods of q+a at verbatim that floppy #28 doesn't fail
<daftykins> i had a 25 floppy set of ~office 6 for win3.11 or win95
<daftykins> one of the disks you needed to let copy whilst holding the eject button to make it rise up slightly
<zmoylan-pi> i especially liked when installing win95 from floppy that it wanted 1-2 disks more than once
<daftykins> ugh.
<shauno> my first linux distro was on floppies :/
<daftykins> LOL my parents, seriously
<shauno> I think 3 for the OS and 8 for whatever 'A' was?  (slackware 3.3)
<daftykins> i'm saying look at the website of the special meal event to see a given restaurants menu
<zmoylan-pi> after installing win95 from floppy twice i became an expert at installing cd drives on systems up to an including parallel port cds and peer to peer networks to reach a cd drive in computer beside computer i was installing to
<daftykins> "we'll check the newspaper edition we have" she says
<daftykins> yesss working wireless
<zmoylan-pi> civilisation has been achieved :-)
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: I think I still have a SB16 ISA card somewhere with 3 CD-ROM ports on it
<daftykins> just the non-working touchpad left
<MartijnVdS> One of these: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/KL_Creative_Labs_Soundblaster_16_CT2230.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> when clearing out 2-3 years ago i found an awe 32 sound card that cost silly money when new
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we had one in our dan Pentium 1
<daftykins> i have a couple of Audigys upstairs in an anti-static bag unused
<MartijnVdS> I had an awe64 in my 486dx2-66
<daftykins> that's a bag of 4+ soundcards i think
<daftykins> might want to mute your sound - https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvehuk00lweboou/VID_20141031_212154.mp4?dl=0
<adamello> hey
<daftykins> hi
<adamello> czesc
<adamello> ho are you
<daftykins> not bad ty, yourself?
<adamello> im ok
<adamello> you are women men ?
<daftykins> i don't really understand what you're trying to ask
<adamello> you are women or men ?
<daftykins> gender isn't important online
<daftykins> we are both
<adamello> ok
<shauno> I miss ISA soundblasters.  I remember a funny one where for various reasons, the sb16 popped out of my machine.  and the kernel just started spewing DMA errors
<shauno> so I put it back in, and the music continued
<daftykins> :D
<popey> czajkowski: yes
<shauno> modern stuff gets quite grumpy when you accidentally hotswap it
<adamello> kurwy jestescie
<daftykins> why does my cat love sitting exactly in line-of-sight of the remote sensor of my HTPC?
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite was a 486 i had a network card, scanner card and sound blaster in plus extra serial and parallel ports.  and once when memory went corrupt the sound card tried to handle the network packets.  sounded like a dolphin in a blender :-)
<shauno> because then you pay attention to it :)
<daftykins> XD
<adamello> pedaÅy
<shauno> !pl
<lubotu3> Na tym kanale uÅ¼ywamy tylko jÄzyka angielskiego. MoÅ¼esz uzyskaÄ pomoc w jÄzyku polskim na #ubuntu-pl.
<adamello> twoja stara sra na stojÄco
<adamello> tak a co mi zrobisz
<adamello> ?
<shauno> we're generally pretty good with visitors, but if you find polish easier .. well there's a loco for that too :)
 * zmoylan-pi hands daftykins a nerf pistol as remote control for cat :-p
<daftykins> XD
<adamello> not my fault you do not understand the kurwy
<adamello> fuck ubuntu
<adamello> kurwy
<daftykins> adamello: maybe you should join a channel where they speak your language
<daftykins> and don't give us attitude
 * zmoylan-pi hands adamello a copy of os/2 on floppy
<adamello> fuck it is you want and what you do not have
<daftykins> yeah it'd be nice if you left now.
<daftykins> shauno: lol the touchpad *does* work, you just have to lie your finger down so a whole segment is on the pad before you can move the cursor :D
<daftykins> that's totally weird
<adamello> u fuck
<daftykins> ops please.
 * daftykins pokes popey 
<daftykins> getting PM'd the same above abuse now.
<adamello> you are out of luck because he is here today adamello
<adamello> you fuck
<daftykins> lol.
<daftykins> worst troll i've ever seen
<MartijnVdS> worst. troll. EVER.
<zmoylan-pi> 0/10 as a troll, i've seen better on youtube
<popey> hm?
<zmoylan-pi> even the squeaky trolls on xbox live...
<daftykins> popey: could you possibly +q or escort our above friend off the premises?
<shauno> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqeGxMgVOHI&t=16
<popey> oh, i see
<daftykins> ty sir
<zmoylan-pi> ta, nicely done
<SuperEngineer> +1
<adamello> rwy
<adamello> kurwy
<adamello> heeeeeeeeee
<daftykins> curly wurly? in your halloween swag?
<daftykins> i can't understand you!
<adamello> you fuck
<Azelphur> is that a request? ;)
<MartijnVdS> here? now?
<adamello> if you dont undrstand me dont read ;)
 * Azelphur prods popey
<popey> ta
<MartijnVdS> aww yeah.. pyx-1.socialgamer.net
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^ CaH online!
<MartijnVdS> (I've also played "CardCast" - CaH on a chromecast -- tons o'fun!)
<shauno> any recommendations for a tv-style remote for an ubuntu/xbmc box - that doesn't have that whacking great WinMCE button?
<zmoylan-pi> an automatic nerf pistol with laser for aiming :-p
<daftykins> shauno: got a smartphone? XBMC's remote app does well enough over wifi :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: won't any remote work?
<Azelphur> +1 for the phone remote for XBMC
<shauno> my tv remote doesn't have a 'dvr' button that I used to repurpose :(
<MartijnVdS> I switched to the new "Harmony Ultimate" stuff
<MartijnVdS> it's so cool
<popey> shauno: boxee remote if you can get one
<MartijnVdS> I have an unused "Minix Neo X7"
<Azelphur> fancy
<MartijnVdS> no idea what to do with it
<shauno> hm, nothing on ebay, but I'll keep my eyes open
<Azelphur> shauno: in the keyboard department, I got this for my HTPC http://www.dx.com/p/rapoo-e9080-ultra-slim-wireless-82-key-keyboard-with-touchpad-receiver-black-2xaaa-102667
<zmoylan-pi> there was a great app on palmos around 2000 that allowed you to draw buttons on screen and copy ir remotes to those buttons, great little app
<Azelphur> It's actually quite nice, and very cool looking.
<daftykins> shauno: seen that flirc thing? not sure if it's an apt replacement
<daftykins> hmm not quite relevant - http://flirc.tv/
<Azelphur> the reviews are accurate too, I replaced my batteries for the first time a couple days ago and I've had it around a year.
<shauno> I'm not so worried about a keyboard .. I've never needed one yet
<shauno> atm I have it on my appletv using apple's remote, which is as basic as it gets.  I use the app for anything that needs more buttons, but it's really hand to have a remote just to grab & hit pause
<Azelphur> I just bought a Asus M060U chromebox to run XBMC on - it kicks ass.
<popey> shauno: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/PC-Remote-Control-SC511-Smart-TV_119459622.html
<popey> brilliant remote
<daftykins> Azelphur: hrmm what was the damage there?
<Azelphur> Tiny, silent, 11 second boot time, 1080p at ~10% CPU, XBMC UI is completely flawless, handles it like a champ
<popey> if you want 3000 of them, anyway â»
<Azelphur> daftykins: Â£160
<popey> Azelphur: what did you install on it?
<Azelphur> popey: openelec
<popey> k
<shauno> lol @ 3000
<Azelphur> really easy to set up too, there's a guy who has made a script to install openelec and optionally dual boot
<Azelphur> so you basically take out the right protect screw, curl the script and run it, and you're done.
<Azelphur> s/right/write
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i quite like the chrome* machines for that reset button
<daftykins> i remember being asked to get it going on a mates one, when you did something wrong with the install you just flicked the dev switch back, let it reset itself, then had another bash :D
<daftykins> where it = ubuntu
<Azelphur> yea, this seems much the same
<Azelphur> although one downside is it seems to have a forced "you are in dev mode" splash every time you turn it on, which wastes a second.
<daftykins> can you bench the NAND? :D
<daftykins> ah
<Azelphur> daftykins: no idea, I have SSH on it
<daftykins> not many binaries on there with OE though i guess
<daftykins> so it'd be a hassle to find out
<Azelphur> https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=2d4e34920277d4a727cb95800328d7d9 is the inside :)
<daftykins> in the guide i did, you flashed another BIOS that didn't care so much 0o which might disable said boot prompt
<daftykins> ooh looks like a NUC
<daftykins> wasted dual channel operation there!
<Azelphur> yea, could get another chip, but tbh it flies through XBMC with no issues whatsoever
<shauno> I'm looking at grabbing http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007T94TLG/
<daftykins> module! :> yeah if it does the job
<shauno> mostly to move retripie off the pi
<daftykins> erk the AMD APUs
<daftykins> i'd probably run that by fritsch / XBMC forums prior
<daftykins> (fritsch is the graphics hardware boffin developer)
<shauno> eh, it doesn't need to be amazing.  if it beats the pi it's all I need
<shauno> (or a nuc if they had any cases that weren't designed by blind people)
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> they are quite ugly indeed
<popey> i glad you pointed that out shauno i have been looking for something to go under the telly
<popey> probably want something lean like a chromebox tho
<zmoylan-pi> a table :-p
<popey> Azelphur: does that asus box run the xbmc ui okay?
<MartijnVdS> I have that ARM Android box
<shauno> well I can't vouch for it, it's just something I've been eyeing up
<MartijnVdS> it runs XBMC fine
<daftykins> let me run it by fritsch, he's active
<shauno> I have a 1st gen appletv for xbmc, no complaints really.  and then a pi for emulators
<Azelphur> popey: I actually just made a quick video to demonstrate how well it does it
<shauno> I don't need anything amazing, just something that can bring those both into one box
<Azelphur> in the video I show: being really evil to the UI by holding an arrow key with cover art and over views, 1080p video playback, boot times, etc etc
<popey> nice
<popey> works okay?
<Azelphur> flawless :)
 * popey adds to wishlist
<popey> thanks
<popey> new telly arrives on wednesday â»
<Azelphur> video is at 85% :)
<popey> want something to play 1080p content â»
<daftykins> here's the gossip on the above amazon item...
<daftykins> < fritsch> limit: 1080p50, only temporal deinterlacing, need very recent kernel (3.16.x) to get fluent 24p playback, sometimes picky with AVRs concerning dts-hd, truehd
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> knows his stuff that guy
<popey> which device>
<shauno> my tv doesn't do 1080  hehe
<popey> neither does mine, hence new one coming on weds
<daftykins> popey: the Sedatech running the AMD E-350
<Azelphur> https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=172c242340bba4c23cc90ca80cb89841 tada, video
<popey> ah
 * popey downloads
<Azelphur> popey: it should stream if you press the play button
<daftykins> nah your upload is too choppy ;)
<Azelphur> aww
<Azelphur> apparently I'm only doing 75KB/sec up, I can do like 2.5MB/sec up no problem o.O
<Azelphur> unless everyone already grabbed the video
<shauno> interesting, wget refuses to
<Azelphur> ah now it's spiking up, doing 25mbit up much better :)
<Azelphur> but yea, real happy with the Chromebox, it runs through XBMC no problem, and you can dual boot it easy too to keep ChromeOS around, although so far I've found no use for it
<zmoylan-pi> throw a few file on chromeos for when customs at airport want to see it?
<shauno> you take your tv to the airport?
<zmoylan-pi> for really long flights :-)
<zmoylan-pi> my bad
<shauno> I've never bothered with that .. I can't stay awake on planes
<shauno> ooh, there's a new season of Elementary
<popey> Azelphur: that thing boots fast
<Azelphur> popey: indeed it does
<Azelphur> and 1 second of that is wasted splash screen time toon
<Azelphur> too*
<daftykins> Azelphur: aaaah what is that scary film sorting order you have there XD
<Azelphur> daftykins: alphabetical?
<daftykins> surely it wasn't to begin with
<daftykins> *looks again*
<daftykins> A,E,I,P... A, R
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> daftykins: XBMC ignores "the" and stuff at the beginning of a title
<Azelphur> so The Big Bang Theory, is B.
<daftykins> nah this is at 27 seconds in your vid
<daftykins> and know how it works ;D i've been using it since the xbox1 :>
<daftykins> oops sorry that was a bit abruptly worded
<shauno> I have films in reverse-chronilogical  (eg, newest first)
<daftykins> i'm watching Ghostbusters \o/
<shauno> I'm sitting here looking for something else to play, because I just discovered that when you finish level5 on road rash .. you get to do level 5 again.  and again.  and ariston.
<Azelphur> daftykins: haha, apparently it's sorting them by date
<daftykins> huzzah!
<shauno> cannon fodder is *really* bad on the megadrive
<shauno> reminds me of C&C on the playstation.  you just can't port mouse UIs to consoles
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> i remember trying that at a friends
<daftykins> wow it was bad
<zmoylan-pi> i liked sim city on playstation
<zmoylan-pi> a little annoying rotating the city with shoulder buttons but it worked
<zmoylan-pi> i think i still preferred it on palm os though
<shauno> hm.  my dhcp server is hung at boot.  'cmos checksum fail'.  sweeeet
<daftykins> doh!
<daftykins> i could imagine that after a power loss
<daftykins> or was it unplugged?
<daftykins> presumably if it holds said title you regularly run it :)
<shauno> unplugged, for good amounts of time.  it's just a little 'lab' network
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> i was thinking, if i had a use for it, that macbook could sit behind my UPS and run as a server
<daftykins> i think the power consumption would be a waste besides the VMs already atop my 24/7 file server, however
<shauno> wahey, ipv6 works at least
<shauno> I love that.  ping fe02::1, look for the address that comes back that ain't mine, and ssh to it
<zmoylan-pi> if you do bios factory reset?
<shauno> yeah, I had to go dig up a keyboard to use defaults  (it won't use usb keyboards ..)
<daftykins> shauno: is that the equivalent of a broadcast ping, or?
<zmoylan-pi> there's often a reset on motherboard if that'd be quicker
<daftykins> i was under the impression you couldn't really find other hosts with IPv6 due to too many possibilities to scan for
<shauno> yeah, it's broadcast
<shauno> most things on the local link will reply
<shauno> I have a really ugly script called 'mmmpie' that uses it .. http://paste.ubuntu.com/8767232/
<shauno> stick a pi on ethernet, run 'mmmpie' and it'll ssh to it :)
<dogmatic69_> anyone good a algebra?
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> (except you have to turn ipv6 on the pi, they ship rasbian without it :(
<daftykins> slightly related - it's been my understanding that it's compiled into Ubuntu's kernel these days, so you can't turn it off like you used to be able to?
<daftykins> er, that is part of the Linux kernel.
<daftykins> i think it was a module at some point?
<shauno> I haven't looked lately, but it's sane enough assumption
<shauno> (it should be compiled in.  it's 2014.)
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> weird that windows 7 has toredo on as default, its' IPv6 tunneling
<shauno> pi have it as a blacklisted module, because they're a little more sensitive about ram requirements
<shauno> (so it's built, but won't enable unless you take it out the blacklist)
<shauno> well, rasbian at least.  I just lump the two together
<daftykins> *nod* makes sense
<shauno> speaking of pi, I should probably just replace this box with one
<daftykins> presumably the kernel is already heavily stripped and specialised?
<shauno> Hostname: pxe - OS: Linux 3.2.0-4-486/i686 - Distro: Debian 7.1 - CPU: VIA Ezra (797.940 MHz) - Processes: 92 - Uptime: 18m - Users: 1 - Load Average: 0.01 - Memory Usage: 34.91MB/232.85MB (14.99%) - Disk Usage: 25.13GB/35.78GB (70.23%)
<daftykins> lol VIA
<shauno> it's a via.  a rackmounted via.
<shauno> and if you're wondering who would put a via in 1U, it was a freebie from work
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-01
<shauno> (legit freebie, not five-fingered)
<daftykins> i wouldn't think you the sort, sir
<shauno> heh
<daftykins> after a 6 month contract doing IT support in an educational establishment, they phoned me up one day to ask if i knew where one of their Asus Eee netbooks went
<shauno> we had to dispose of a whole bunch of them when we finally figured out how to move the application they hosted to VMs
<daftykins> i owned a sony ultraportable at the time which i took it several times so they knew i had something better
<daftykins> odd they didn't think the guy that left to go travelling and kept saying "these are really nice machines" had done it
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<daftykins> shauno: was it tricky?
<shauno> it actually was .. all the licences were tied to a SN it pulled from an eprom on the board
<daftykins> ooh, how is the EEPROM shared on the VMs to allow reading?
<shauno> I replaced the tool it uses to read the eprom, with a script that shoves out an imaginary number  (VM+the mac address)
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> so now we can just tie licences to those
<shauno> (it's our software, so the licences aren't an issue .. but they do need a number to tie to)
<shauno> just it's cranky old stuff that was EOL'd in 2005, and if you ask the development guys in india for any help, you'll grow old waiting
<daftykins> :( they don't even shut you down?
<shauno> well we're not meant to support it anymore either
<shauno> but it works out a whole lot better if we can when we have to
<daftykins> i'm so glad i've gotten rid of XP from everywhere i used to see it
<shauno> telling customers they're SOL is really bad for all the happy metric stuff that managers obsess over  lol
<daftykins> metric stuff? what does that thing do?
<shauno> I mean the various ways the managers measure how useful we are
<shauno> like one of the big ones is how many hours a case stays open for.  that's really difficult when you have equipment that no-one supports
<daftykins> :|
<shauno> so our lab has more hacks than an 80s movie :)
<daftykins> "it no longer exists" is not a good enough reason? :(
 * zmoylan-pi remembers a cpm computer still in use in the 90s as it had been modified by crazed electrician to control power plant
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> with code running uncompiled...
<zmoylan-pi> in basic :-)
<shauno> heh, I used to work in a hotel that used a dos program as their booking app
<shauno> every year they printed out all the bookings, and then changed the year in the config file and started from fresh
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> that must've been a fine print run
<daftykins> surely they hit some memory limitations?
<zmoylan-pi> and every leap year there was panic?
<shauno> nah, it didn't handle 2k well
<shauno> so they just nuked it and started again each year
<shauno> and every winter we'd be taking next summer's bookings on paper, until the computer got flicked around
<zmoylan-pi> i remember servicing a video point of sales system that some staff had tried to insert money into
<zmoylan-pi> coins on motherboard are bad, m'kay
<shauno> man, it's been so long since I've used this router, I have no idea what I'm doing :/
 * zmoylan-pi passes shauno my hammer
<shauno> I think I've got it.  just waiting 3 years for it to reboot to find out :/
<shauno> ah.  forgot when I get a new v4 address I have to update HE's end of the tunnel too
<shauno> sorted \o/
<shauno> I still have no idea why this works.  one modem, two routers, they both get addresses
<daftykins> wat.
<shauno> yarly.
<daftykins> i'm sure that's permissable when paying for it, but not if you're not
<daftykins> maybe your ISP just has no idea?
<daftykins> have you tried for a third?
<shauno> yup.  I can get 4, one off each port on the modem
<shauno> but I only really have use for 2 :)
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> are they sequential too, or just in the same space?
<daftykins> the IPs
<shauno> oh they're nowhere close
<daftykins> and unrepeatable? assuming you're on dynamic
<shauno> atm my wifi's 89.101.etc and my lab is 46.7.etc
<shauno> they seem to get a decent length lease on each mac address
<shauno> so the lab only changes if I leave it unplugged for >28 days
<shauno> and my wifi .. there's no way I'm unplugging that for 28 days to find out :)
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> so my network is really quite messy
<shauno> both my apple router & my lab router have v6 tunnels
<shauno> and then the lab router is advertising a private ipv6 subnet to the real router
<daftykins> just so both sides can chat?
<shauno> yeah.  otherwise connecting to a box under my desk goes router->isp->london->paris->isp>router2
<shauno> (because henet-london didn't have any free endpoints when I setup the tunnel for the lab, so their endpoints are in different cities)
<shauno> and then for v4 they're completely seperate networks
<shauno> the lab is 12u of some very noisy trash, so I have this convoluted config so I can reach it without routing through it.  because noisy trash gets turned off a lot.
<daftykins> shauno: do you have pics? :D
<shauno> http://cl.ly/image/3U001H143S31
<daftykins> cor, nice footwarmer
<shauno> lol.  I don't sit at the desk often.  there's not really space for me there anymore
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> is there a nice hum from over there?
<shauno> it's not so bad as long as the dell's off
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i had a 1U poweredge with dual P4 era Xeons
<daftykins> damn it was all noise and no beans
<shauno> that's probably what this is lol .. 2xE5420
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> one i had, had 2GB RAM totally decked out
<daftykins> i was playing with what was VMware ESXi at the time, but that RAM wasn't much for anything :(
<shauno> this should take 32, but I won't pay for it
<shauno> (ecc ddr2 is *not* cheap)
<shauno> or it wasn't last time I looked  heh
<shauno> oh now see, this is how bad things happen
<shauno> 32GB for this machine is around 140eur
<shauno> for 150, I can get the same machine again, but with 32 already in it (and two slightly better procs)
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> that's insane
<daftykins> :>
<shauno> seriously, http://www.ebay.ie/itm/381036708860   for 10 quid more, the ram comes with a 3GHz 'footwarmer'
<shauno> I may have to keep an eye on that to see if it moves =x
<shauno> heh, so I fired it up to see what cpuinfo said
<shauno> now I'm staring at it wondering why on earth it's running centos
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> anyway.  now that it's all alive .. I'm going to bed
<daftykins> nn sir :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.amazon.com/Did-You-Read-That-Review-ebook/dp/B00O7XEOJY
<MartijnVdS> (or http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00O7XEOJY)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<boris> k
<SuperEngineer> o
<zmoylan-pi> a
<SuperEngineer> l
<zmoylan-pi> a
<SuperEngineer> :D
<shauno> I thought you were all still asleep?
<SuperEngineer> ok, getting cheesed off now - 3rd x-crash in a week. getting tired of suddenly disappearing, getting tired of using REISUB.  must investigate... sometime :)
<SuperEngineer> [in the mentime, I'll blame it on the boogie]
<daftykins> http://twitch.tv/daftpunkle
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> nothing like beating your friends record in a game :D
<daftykins> by a tenth of a second no less XD
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> hey brobostigon, up to much today?
<brobostigon> not much upto now, and you?
<daftykins> spot of shopping, just installed xubuntu-desktop onto this old macbook i was given by a friend and now relaxing with Forza Horizon 2 on the xbox one :>
<popey> A'noon
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> hey popey, how goes it?
<brobostigon> afternoodlings popey
<daftykins> mm noodles
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> careful, you'll wake dan up
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah-ha, right clicking is a distinct challenge on this thing
<daftykins> as in, i don't know how to do it :)
<popey> tickety boo
 * DJones ticks popey's boo
<brobostigon> new dr who, :)
<daftykins> yawn :P
<shauno> heh, that was bad
<directhex> rabble rabble
<daftykins> i'm writing up a forum post with how well this macbook took to Trusty
<daftykins> seems the only way to update the mac docs
<penguin42> daftykins: Is it on a wiki ?
<daftykins> penguin42 - i suppose sort of? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<penguin42> looks a bit prehistoric
<Laney> how's that sort of?
<Laney> adding a new page there seems likely to be the way to have most people find it to me
<Laney> does seem like the MacTel team is dormant though
<penguin42> Laney: It's just a little suspicious it's not got many models from the last few years
<directhex> now i'm scared to upgrade my macbook
<Laney> I'm running my 7.1 on Utopic
<Laney> don't think it requires any particular hax any mroe
<daftykins> how do you add a page there?
<daftykins> Laney: it's sort of because it's the first time i'm looking at it and am not familiar
<Laney> fair
<Laney> I think that even if the team which used to maintain it has gone away it's nice to put the page where most people will find it
<Laney> or at least a link
<Laney> you should be able to add a page by naviating to what its URL ought to be and clicking the link from there
<Laney> (if you're signed in)
<directhex> my mac's for work. do i need to upgrade?
<daftykins> directhex: don't be facetious :P
<daftykins> ah i see the controls for logging into the site now, but it seems to be stuck and not loading after i hit 'yes, log in'
<popey> takes a while
<popey> \o/ 500 internal server error
 * popey files an rt
<penguin42> perhaps it needs a new rubber band
<popey> done.
<andylockran> thanks for the tip earlier popey :)
<popey> np
<daftykins> ok i've got my page up and edited, it seems to have mentioned some usernames that have been notified
<daftykins> is there any way i can contact those people to get my page actually linked from the main one?
<daftykins> or do they just have to review it first
<popey> the people who got a mail are just people subscribed to the page
<popey> anyone can do that
<popey> they may or may not be involved
<daftykins> there don't seem to be any edit controls on the parent?
<popey> url?
<daftykins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MactelSupportTeam/CommunityHelpPages
<popey> its editable here
<daftykins> i'd like to add my new page under the LTS column for - MacBook 3,1
<daftykins> 	
<daftykins> late 2007 oops.
<daftykins> weird, i have no controls
<daftykins> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook3-1/Trusty
<daftykins> there's my new page
<daftykins> ah hang on
<daftykins> i'm being quite the idiot
<popey> two separate sites to login to
<daftykins> *nod* didn't even see the login link
<daftykins> these old specs are driving me spare :(
<daftykins> huzzah it is done!
<daftykins> well that's one less blank
<Azelphur> this is the problem buying something off facebook, I have someone claiming this table is 190x50cm https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=c61f23dba3521479aa81f4c3f65f25ab
<Azelphur> someone clearly doesn't know how to count.
<daftykins> 0o
<Azelphur> like yea, if the table is 50cm wide, the shelf underneath is 25cm, and the place mats are 12.5cm
<ali1234> it could be 190x50 inches
<ali1234> or it could be a tiny table
<ali1234> i'm going with inches
#ubuntu-uk 2014-11-02
<map> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<vad3rman1156> sup
<brobostigon> morning vad3rman1156
<penguin42> Ovo (eelc supplier) have an interesting account system; you earn interest on overpayments, and can extract money before the end of the term
<map> thats decent
<map> if im ever in credit at eon its a right pain getting it back
<penguin42> yeh, it's just taken nearly 2 months to extract the end of contract credit from Flow gas
<penguin42> I tend to change supplier each year
<map> i usually dont just because of the hassle
<penguin42> I think it's saving me money changing, althoguh frankly it's hard to tell
<map> im gonna have to send my email later this week
<map> paying for 100mbit getting like 20mbit speed max
<penguin42> what on?
<map> although il need to do what daftykins  said at some point
<map> hat do you mean what on
<penguin42> what isp/connectivity/technology?
<map> gibtelecom
<map> says fibre
<penguin42> ah
<map> like now download 10.51
<map> lol
<penguin42> yeh well you're probably sharing gig among your segment - but what's the link back to the mainland?
<map> ]no idea tbh
<map> i get that its shared and 'upto 100' but even at 3/4am
<map> max 20
<map> no point paying for 100 if im not getting ANYWHERE close
<penguin42> try a traceroute and see if you can figure it out
<penguin42> map: and where are you downloading from?
<map> ive tried nearest possible mirrors for isos
<map> also tried speedtest
<map> traceroute to where anywhere in particular..google.co.uk?
<penguin42> map: I'd be happy to try and do a compare from my supposed 50/60mbps cable
<penguin42> map: The place you're downloading from
<map> DSL Type:	ITU-T G.993.2 Annex B (VDSL2)
<map> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:	13.410 / 100.016
<map> Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [B/B]:	0 / 0
<penguin42> oh, that's not fibre, that's VDSL
<map> yea
<map> but the site said fibre
<map> https://www.gibtele.com/fibrebroadband/
<penguin42> yeh most of the UK places advertise as fibre, but that's fibre to the cabinet - but still, where did that info come from - your modem?
<penguin42> (I made a complaint to advertising standards about 10 years ago when they started doing that but they didn't get it)
<map> yea jusgt logged into the router
<map> dont get that tho
<map> what speed does it think its connecting at?
<penguin42> map: OK, so something in the router thinks you're on 100Mbps
<map> il try and find a spanish mirror and test
<penguin42> hmm, actually no those numbers don't quite make sense - although they might if you assume it's mbps not kbps
<map> whys it say kbps? just an error with the page i guess
<map> yea
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> map: Are you sure it's not the mirror ? What exactly are you trying to download from where?
<map> ubuntu isos just a big file to test
<map> not sure where else to use to test besides mirrors?
<penguin42> which mirror are you using?
<map> sec
<map> 81.94.213.9 gona try tracert to that
<map> took quite a while to get there
<map> http://de.releases.ubuntu.com/utopic/
 * penguin42 wonders where that actually is
<map> what speed do you get off there..700ks here;[
<map> its works IP address in the UK
<penguin42> well that's probably in Germany?
<map> yea it is
<map> i cant find anywhere closer now
<map> not sure where to use to try and test
<penguin42> that's giving about 6MByte/sec - so about 50Mbps
<map> yea see thats decent
<map> im no even getting 1MB/s
<map> any suggestions for something/somewhere to download from? doesnt matter what it is
<penguin42> well what happens if you just drop the de. ?
<penguin42> oh actually, that's going to the same host
 * penguin42 suspects it's doing something clever there
<map> not sure where it went to
<map> :)
 * penguin42 was going to sugges mirrorservice.org but for some reason it only has the ppc server isos of 14.10
<map> thats ok though
<penguin42> map: Well for a bandwidth test, http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/releases/utopic/release/
<penguin42> map: I'd bet your problem is just the bandwidth to the mainland
<map> surely to spain i should be fine then
<map> even on speedtest running a test from a site in Malaga or anywhere..max 20
<map> lol 240kb/s
<penguin42> map: Try france or portugal
<map> willl do ta
<shauno> I'd expect better service to the UK, tbh
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, I was just seeing the list of landing points for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_India_Gateway    it does have UK, but also Portugal and France, but not Spain
<shauno> and this is why uni tell you off for citing wiki :)
<map> possibly due to spain not recognising gibralar as a country
<shauno> https://www.europeindiagateway.com/webclient/common/html/aboutus.html
<shauno> they list gibraltar as one of the landing points, and gibtelecom are one of the part-owners
<map> hm
<map> so whys it son rubbish;[
<shauno> no idea at all.  I just assumed you'd get better traffic down the cable, than over a disputed border  (speculation)
<penguin42> map: Because the whole of gibraltar is using it to surf the net on a quiet sunday afternoon, and most of the rest of the world is using it to bet using gibraltar betting companies
<map> lol
<map> but what about when its 4am and it sucks
<shauno> there's a good chance it simply sucks :)
<map> ja
<map> gonna have to contaCT THEM as its mad expensive too
<map> 73 a month
<map> why pay that for this rubbish
<shauno> c&w, at&t, both owned massive infrastructure but were still pretty lousy as residential ISPs
<map> 16mbit is only 28 quid..so may aswell switch to that if it doesnt get better?
<penguin42> map: What difference do you get in the upload bandwidth if you drop down to 16mbit?
<map> it just says download 16Mbps upload 16=.6
<shauno> what happens if you pay for 16 and get a quarter of that instead?
<map> well
<penguin42> map: Yeh make sure you know what you're gettting upload; .6mbps would be a bit grim compared to your current supposed 13
<map> il be annoyed again
<map> im figuring they cant meet 100mbit requirements
<map> but more likely to get full speed on 16?
<shauno> perhaps you have someone like me as your nextdoor neighbour :)
<map> ;]
<daftykins> Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:I13.410 / 100.016
<daftykins> map: yeah that's kbps, because in Gibraltar, a period is used as a comma for numbers
<daftykins> you should really check the actual line sync rate still
<daftykins> looks like it's connected and provisioned at the correct speed, maybe you're just trying to do too much UK stuff with it? ;)
<shauno> perhaps you just need to lower your expectations now that you're living on the edge of civilization =x
<shauno> (btw, is it safe to assume that your vpn plays no part in these tests?)
<daftykins> i think that's just when he's at work
<shauno> I just discovere that in win7, if you grab a window and wave it around, it hides all other windows.  I'm now trying to figure out the logic behind this :/
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah the ol' wobble minimise and restore
<shauno> but why?
<daftykins> i can only imagine someone would have a tonne of junk up then want to focus on just one thing
<daftykins> buuuut nope, doesn't make any sense
<daftykins> could be a good boss protection thing i guess ;)
<shauno> hm.  I was trying to get the window to snap against the 'edge' between two monitors.  I wasn't expecting that
<shauno> (which also sounds like it should't work, but does work in one direction)
<daftykins> yeah i always used super + d-pad
<daftykins> *use
<daftykins> i can't go back to Vista and before now, as they lack this :(
<zmoylan-pi> well pre win 7 a humongus amount of cpu and ram was used to draw screen if only 1 pixel of 1gb file was on screen so maybe they cut a few corners :-)
<daftykins> not that i want to use Vista or earlier
<zmoylan-pi> or in a folder on the desktop
<daftykins> i somewhat doubt that claim
<zmoylan-pi> tis true, i'll try and dig up proof but take any win vista system or earlier and move 4gb from my documents to a folder on desktop and compare perfermorance before and after
<shauno> daftykins: a scholar and a gentleman!  super+cursors is exactly what I was looking for
<daftykins> shauno: :D woohoo \o/
<zmoylan-pi> in my docs no performance hit, on desktop or in folder below desktop grind to a halt
<shauno> it seems I can only do it with the mouse in one direction because the monitors aren't the same size.  so I can snap up against the 'step'
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: upon doing what? browsing with an explorer window?
<shauno> that reminds me of when 95 was new, and people would complain that leaving icons on the desktop "used up ram"
<daftykins> is that even true 0o
<zmoylan-pi> any time windows went to redraw the desktop it checked with all the apps and then had a rummage in desktop folder in windows to see what the background should look like on top of the current theme
<shauno> not to any significant measure, I believe
<shauno> and then we had all the scare-mongering from admins who hated us leaving stuff on the desktop because only 'my documents' was propogated to network backups
<zmoylan-pi> in windows 3.x even icons on desktop used resources enough to make a difference
<daftykins> ah yes Desktop content remains on-system and was never seen again
<daftykins> i remember them locking down the desktop at my old College, much to the anger of those that stored desktop shortcuts or documents also
<daftykins> if you wanted to run anything that wasn't on the start menu (such as cmd) you had to make your own shortcut in your user area
<shauno> ours mostly worked because we habitually took the same workstations each day. so what we were told was 'wrong and didn't work', continued to work
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> doesn't do much for disk failure mind you
<shauno> we actually had the opposite.  we had an optical link between two campuses.
<zmoylan-pi> well then you're into disks spinning up and down increasing or lowering hard disk life
<shauno> so whenever there was a proper sea haar, you'd find you could login to get hte stuff off your desktop - but not from 'my documents'
<zmoylan-pi> differing opinions on files on desktops slowing down things.  http://superuser.com/questions/30710/is-that-true-that-if-you-keep-bulky-files-on-the-desktop-then-windows-slow-down
<shauno> large parts of the network were completely dependent on the weather.
<daftykins> opinions? are these not people of science?!
<zmoylan-pi> well ireland, weather. i'm surprised some days the electricity has made it out of power station it's so damp :-)
<zmoylan-pi> we still haven't agreed that vim is the best text editor :-p
<shauno> oh I didn't go to college here :)  that was eons ago
<shauno> have you ever noticed the 'thumbs' hidden file that you get when you've copied a folder off a windows machine?
<zmoylan-pi> there were many times i drastically speeded up a crawling windows desktop by moving a few gigabytes from desktop folder to my documents.  /my 2c
<shauno> that file is why windows doesn't have to reindex the desktop every single time it becomes visible.  such stuff is cached
<foobarry> anyone on ircnet? having a problem i can't figure out. when i join, there is a bitlbee session i connect to. i can't seem to /join any chans
<foobarry> hmm. ebay down for me
<foobarry> oh, www.ebay.co.uk works. not without www
<map> shauno,  yea vpn isnt plaing part at all
<map> the VPNs on 90mbit sky anyway with a decent upload so wouldnt hamper it so much?
<daftykins> map: lol yes it would.
<daftykins> you don't apply extra hops then speed test XD
<map> sure
<map> i wasnt tho;p
<daftykins> you really need to try some local mirrors then
<map> fixed my pi..it all comes on after a reboot/powercut
<map> apache/openvpn starts automatically..iptables rules loaded and wifi connects with same ip :)
<map> so if it goes wrong again il hve no idea why
<map> cant see any local ones..spain best? although shauno  said the gib -> spain link was crap or something?
<daftykins> funnily enough my internalised database of international links doesn't cover Gibraltar (:
<map> damn!
<map> ;]
<map> strange
<map> phone couldnt get a signal..then says searching comes back as orange
<map> normally only get orange es when in spain
<map> and gibtel right the way until quite far in la linea
<penguin42> map: I'd make sure it's not routing via the vpn, the IP you mentioned before I tried to traceroute to went via a bet365 address which suggests perhaps it's a VPN end point?
<map> penguin42, thats the work IP in UK office
<map> i was uust using it as an ip to traceroute
<penguin42> map: that was a bad idea
<map> speedtest in UK says the uk office is pretty fast tho
<map> why?
<map> i figured itd be ok to use that IP its got a decent link so surely routing is good
<penguin42> map: Routes between places don't necessarily go the same way just because they both happen to be in the same country
<map> i know that:D
<penguin42> map: Especially if you have VPN stuff around
<map> 900k off a mirror in Marseille
<map> lol
<map> il do what daftykins  said to tomorrow (off work) and see what it says
<map> then il have to email them..it sucks bad paying and getting like 1/5 of what i should
<daftykins> well it's kind of a moot point now
<map> why?
<map> ive tested speed downloading isos from numerouis mirrors
<map> spain/france uk kent mirror service ..250ks lol
<daftykins> because your provisioned rates have to be higher than sync rates, and you've already shared those
<map> ah
<daftykins> so you to the ISP is fine, it's from there onwards that's up for debate
<map> could it be a simple mistake their end?:Z
<daftykins> doubt it
<map> :(
<map> so il probably never really get 100mbit speeds
<map> grmpf
<map> well if i get ut sirted si un bit oaying for 100 wont be too bad
<daftykins> this is why you need to test from a nearby mirror
<map> but theres none nearby!
<map> spain is nearest geographically
<daftykins> i noticed your telco's speedtest link just kinda fails
<daftykins> well yeah but damn well find one :P don't just throw your hands up like an undergrad
<map> lol does it thats crap
<daftykins> well it did the other day
<map> i cant see there being a gibraltar mirror;p
<daftykins> contact them and ask for a file mirror they host in their data centre
<shauno> "since you can't give me the speeds I pay for, can you at least host a mirror so we can pretend?"
<daftykins> 8D
<shauno> I pay for 120 and tend to get 150-180 depending on the time of day (or !day)
<map> heh
<daftykins> is that over cable?
<shauno> which i starting to get a bit silly. you barely notice the extra 60meg
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> barely notice? :)
<daftykins> the rate adaptability of cable is kinda funny
<shauno> it's sold as fibre, but I don't know where the fibre actually starts.  it's coax at the wall
<map> i expect il speak to someone who will say like 'oh its the time of day' 'or depends on what ytoure trying' - but ive tried so many diff mirrors as stated here and ive tried at 3am/4am 6am ..1pm 4pm etc
<shauno> phone them up at 3am :)
<penguin42> shauno: Sounds like you're on Cable - DOCSIS?
<map> heh shauno
<map> :)
<daftykins> everything's called fibre these days, it's one of the present day's biggest lies
<map> yea
<daftykins> just goes to show consumer naivety really :(
<zmoylan-pi> it's right up there with unlimited and 4g :-)
<map> i figure il prob email that way they can forward the email to others rather than me having to explain to one operator..then ANOTHER AND SO ON!!
<daftykins> when someone says their tubes are fibre, i know they don't have a clue
<map> fibre to the box
<map> :D
<daftykins> there are many boxes
<zmoylan-pi> it's more of a trapezoid than a box :-p
<map> heh
<map> so everyone agreee? best for me to email my mug ISP:p
<map> havent paid a bill yet and theres no direct debit payment..so i might not pay till they a) sort my speed b) lower me to a diff tarrif if they cant provide 100 as stated
<daftykins> i'd ask for a testing methodology in the first instance
<map> like a local mirror..then when they say..none?:D
<daftykins> damn you're stubborn
<brobostigon> would everyone agree, that leaving food out in the kitchen after it has been cooked for 24 hrs, is unsafe to eat?
<daftykins> if they're throwing out a service their backbone links can't provide for, i would think they'd be aware of it
<daftykins> brobostigon: if uncovered, it wouldn't be wise, no. depends on the environment really
<map> depends on what food
<map> i prob wouldn eat
<brobostigon> daftykins: uncovered is not the issue, its average environmental temperature, and average bacterial growth at those temperatures, which make it unsafe.
<map> me stubborn? i said if:P pfft
<daftykins> i think that's going a bit deep for my interests
<brobostigon> however, its fair to say, its not safe, basic logic tells me that.
<daftykins> yeah i wouldn't leave food out
<brobostigon> me neither.
<brobostigon> after its cooled, in the fridge it goes.
<map> odd that putting hot food into a fridge is bad
<map> i should google and read why heh
<brobostigon> bacterial growth, its too high a termperature differential.
<map> i see
<map> id have thought its ok though as the foods cooked
<brobostigon> between the food and the fridge.
<map> but yea i dont know
<map> yea
<map> HOMELAND TONIGHT ;D
 * brobostigon admits to having studied basic food health and safety, at this point.
<daftykins> i just don't believe in leftovers
<daftykins> i eat what i cook, nothing's left :D
<brobostigon> agreed, if all else fails, i store things properly, to have for lunch next day, however stores proerly, and at the right times.
<brobostigon> stored*
<brobostigon> you dont store food in warm kitchens.
<zmoylan-pi> yes you do, in tin cans, jars and dehydrated :-)
<zmoylan-pi> plus cheese and honey which also work
<daftykins> mmm cheese
<daftykins> i'm sat here debating a shop run for junk food, to last the night
<zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with a good bit of cheese
<daftykins> indeed!
<zmoylan-pi> babybel cheeses go down well on gaming days with a bunch of geeks
<daftykins> too small :(
<zmoylan-pi> nice to nibble on
<daftykins> triple the diameter, then we're talking!
<brobostigon> cheese you store in the fridge. and tins and cans, are vacuum sealed with all bacteria dead inside.
<shauno> but cheese is yummy bacteria?
<zmoylan-pi> that's why spam is popular in hawaii, stores well in warm climate
<shauno> had to laugh at this on reddit; "I have a mechanical keyboard and the key doesn't work, lease hel"
<zmoylan-pi> can i have a p please bob?
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: not after last time
<zmoylan-pi> who here hasn't looked at the error on a computer screen 'keyboard not attached, press a key to continue' and felt a little despair :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: honestly whoever came up with that needs to own up
<shauno> I dunno.  mine just makes a sad face.  it's not a huge improvement
<zmoylan-pi> at least to collect a special sadist award for cruelty :-)
<daftykins> do you guys have any ideas as to when halt on keyboard is even desirable?
<shauno> all the times!  how else are you going to press F1
<daftykins> =[
<shauno> I dunno.  the silly part is that ps/2 isn't meant to be hot-plugged
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i wish my mechanical still used PS/2
<shauno> so it seems kinda silly having a screen asking you to insert a keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> i think it was meant for when a system might be set up as a novell server and you would want to down the server properly with no files open/locked so that you didn't want it to start with no keyboard attached.  /i think/...
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-26
 * m0nkey_ is about to live boot 15.10
<m0nkey_> wish me luck
<daftykins> ooh you devil
<m0nkey_> Well, 14.04 and 15.04 caused my current computer to hang for about a minute after boot. Here's hoping 15.10 fixes that
<m0nkey_> ooh, it did
<daftykins> weird
<m0nkey_> heh, been using freebsd too much
<m0nkey_> i'm trying to get into ports
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> portsnap don't work in ubuntu :)
<knightwise> morning peeps
<popey> Pip pip
<knightwise> hey popey , how are you
<popey> Tickety boo, you?
<knightwise> doin ok . Self employment is a busy enterprise :)
<knightwise> but not complaining. Hoping to find the time to record a new podcast episode today
<diplo> Mornign all
<diplo> morning*
<knightwise> ey diplo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy OK Corral Day! ð
<bashrc> Is there a Not OK Corral?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Keyboard changed to US after upgrade to Wily :/
<diplo> Set to English UK though
<awilkins> I kept getting that for a while
<awilkins> I usually try and combat it by removing the US layout from the list entirely
<diplo> Ah clicked on language support in settings and it says it's not installed completely
<diplo> yeah isn\t there in mine
<diplo> looks like tbird and libre updates though got yhsay
<diplo> that*
<awilkins> It's going to be a bigbang reinstall for me :-(
<awilkins> Running 14.04 with a slightly convoluted partition table
<awilkins> Windows 7 dual boot
<awilkins> Have a nice new 500GB SSD that I want to benefit from
<diplo> Going for reinstall on 16.04
<awilkins> So it's OS on the SSD + Intel RST caching for /home   and G:\GAMES
<awilkins> on the 2TB of spinning rust
<awilkins> (well, not Intel RST for the Linux, bcache or something)
<diplo> Mines my work machine, want to run VM's on it...
<awilkins> Will have to upgrade Windows 7 to WIndows 10 as well
<awilkins> Well, don't *have* to
<diplo> Not doing that
<awilkins> But if I'm bleaching the whole thing clean I may as well
<diplo> Everything is set to UK
 * diplo = stumped atm
<awilkins> diplo, Is there some implication of SSD caching / VM images?
<awilkins> diplo, I had a thing where you had to flip the config to USA and back again, even if it was showing UK
<diplo> ah right, don't have US on there, will add and change and back ta
<diplo> awilkins: I use the machine as a desktop, running anymore than a few VM's kills it... trying to get a new machine and reinstall..
<awilkins> Ah
<Myrtti_> I was so baffled yesterday trying to figure out what the hell had happened to my vm
<awilkins> I was going to get a new machine
<diplo> Going to find whats best for running that many VM's, not sure how well SSD's take to being on a lot on a desktop machine
<awilkins> THen I discovered that for gaming purposes my CPU is only 3-4% slower than the latest Intel Behemoth or whatever
<awilkins> So I just shoved another 8GB of RAM and a 980Ti in it
<awilkins> Now the only thing holding it's awesome monster-ness back is the slow IO on the spinning rust
<awilkins> Running a Windows 7 VM with 2 cores and 4GB of RAM allocated, works like a charm
<awilkins> You can get away with 256MB for most Linux server VMs that are just web toasters
<awilkins> Hell, I think that's overkill for most of the tasks I have them running
<awilkins> I'm running my Redmine instance on a RPi2
<awilkins> And the database on my NAS box (although it worked fine using sqlite locally on the RPi)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Yo!
<bigcalm> popey: cheeky
<popey> wat?
<bigcalm> Facebook comment. I guess I should have responded there
<JohnHunt> https://t.co/we2U0HpvhS
<JohnHunt> sorry, that's a shortlink
<JohnHunt> history of ubuntu to date
<JohnHunt> I remember using the first version :)
<JohnHunt> I lost all interest when it went over to the unity interface
<zmoylan-pi> then try xubuntu, works great for me
<MartijnVdS> I've been installing Debian lately
<MartijnVdS> minimal + cinnamon
<bigcalm> JohnHunt: try http://ubuntu-mate.org/ - Mate is the forked continuation of Gnome2
<JohnHunt> cool
<bigcalm> And pronounced Mar-tay, not mate
<bigcalm> Which is an oddity
<JohnHunt> lol
<JohnHunt> my name is linus
<zmoylan-pi> that'll help promote it... :-)
<JohnHunt> and I pronounce linux linux
<zmoylan-pi> and don't get me started on the eejit who pronounces gif as jif...
<zmoylan-pi> i'll set a jorilla on his ass :-)
<popey> haha, oddity that words from another language are pronounced differently
<zmoylan-pi> https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/English_hard_2learn.html
<popey> http://www.gearbest.com/cell-phones/pp_231265.html
<popey> interesting device
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of spec for not much money
<MartijnVdS> With some free hidden apps, provided by the Chinese Government?
<zmoylan-pi> the gchq/nsa ones will be installed when you connect to uk network
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Very nice for the price, can't be any worse than HTC garbage
<JohnHunt> looks good except the big promo thing says stuff such as "64BITS TURE OCTA CORE"
<JohnHunt> Ture?
<JohnHunt> does look good though
<JohnHunt> apparently the battery isn't so good
<zmoylan-pi> it's a smart phone, of course the battery is crap
<TwistedLucidity> Shut it, Nokiaphile! :-)
 * zmoylan-pi clubs TwistedLucidity with my nokia to silence his dissent... :-P
 * awilkins notes that zmoylan-pi's Nokia still works after clubbing TwistedLucidity to death with it
<zmoylan-pi> no problems with it what so ever.  i did see a broken nokia screen last week but it took an encounter with a skip to break it
<zmoylan-pi> plus the nokia has a battery life that lasts more that a day no matter what i do with it
<awilkins> Their candybar phones are basically the uberphone
<awilkins> They are the best at being a phone
<awilkins> It's everyone's insistence on carrying around a pocket computer with a phone function that's the problem for them...
<zmoylan-pi> well i could use java ssh client on my nokia asha 302 to connect to rasp pi at home for full computer...
<zmoylan-pi> like this... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/617691779622637568/photo/1
<awilkins> I question the "dumbness" of a phone with a full alphanumeric keypad and a colour LCD display with that many pixels
<awilkins> This is a proper dumbphone  http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/nokia-s-3310-the-greatest-phone-of-all-time-1287636
<zmoylan-pi> it's a phone that can only run 1 app with a few exceptions, mp3 player, fm radio etc.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: https://www.tumblr.com/search/3310
<Dave> the 3310 surely isn't that dumb, it has Snake
<diplo> I still have my 3310 in my drawer
<diplo> and a 6210
<diplo> My kids powered it on the other week, it *still* had charge :D
<zmoylan-pi> your snake high scores were intact...
<diplo> hehe, not sure I ever played it
<diplo> tbh, no games on my smartphone either
<zmoylan-pi> i have a very nice java sudoku for my nokia...
<zmoylan-pi> AND a c64 AND a zx spectrum java emulator...
<MartijnVdS> A c64 java emulator?
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<MartijnVdS> So you can run slow Java programs even slower, and on a C64? :P
<zmoylan-pi> if i want accss to real games :-)
<diddledan> fun talk about timezones with a choice quote: "when I started in tech I didn't really have career goals. But if I did, one of them wouldn't have been increase political tension in a long-standing conflict in the middle east" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BdFg5JT9lg
<MartijnVdS> ooh a new time zone video, not Tom Scott's :)
<diddledan> I think I need to put socks on my feet - I'm cold
<diddledan> yey for working from home :-p
<zmoylan-pi> put on slippers and break out the cocoa. \o/
 * zmoylan-pi breaks out winter duvet as cold last night was a little much...
<diddledan> finally got around to purchasing an SPI-capable USB cable to attempt a bios/efi firmware recovery
<diddledan> I wonder whether I'll be able to achieve it...
<Myrtti_> BusPirate?
<diddledan> worth a shot tho, 'cos it's a dead mobo otherwies
<diddledan> Myrtti_, an FTDI C232HM-DDHSL
<diddledan> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Cables/USBMPSSE.htm
<diddledan> I didn't buy off that site tho - I found a second-hand on ebay for a fiver
<Myrtti_> we got a BusPirate trying to get into an old laptop that had bios/efi password protected and the password forgotten
<Myrtti_> didn't get anywhere :-|
<diddledan> :-(
<Myrtti_> BusPirate was nice tho, I used it as oscilloscope when I was doing my bouquet
<zmoylan-pi> motherboard didn't have a reset jumper to flush?
<diddledan> I don't expect laptops would have one of those
<zmoylan-pi> they do but it's harder to get to
<diddledan> the cable I just paid for is said to be compatible with http://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom which is why I went for it
<daftykins> diddledan: what machine is it?
<diddledan> daftykins, it's an MSI mobo
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> bleh overclockers.co.uk redesigned their site and removed the 'show excluding VAT' option :P
<daftykins> that is highly frustrating
<diddledan> they're encouraging mental arithmetic
<diddledan> it's all part of the UK's new programme to improve the maths skills of the elderly
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> or us sarnians
<awilkins> baconsarnians?
<diddledan> the internet is claiming that bacon gives you cancer
<awilkins> the internet gives you anxiety induced disorders
<awilkins> Is there anyone in here who would recommend PHP?
<diddledan> I like PHP
<diddledan> I get paid to do PHP :-p
<awilkins> Currently I'm getting paid to do PHP
<daftykins> that good, huh? :)
<awilkins> It's my second day of PHP. I'd rather be getting paid to do Python
<awilkins> Or Ruby
<awilkins> I hate Ruby and think it's a horrible little script kiddie language
<awilkins> Basically been told to patch a PHP ticket tracker until it meets the specs
<diddledan> I looked at ruby and didn't understand it
<awilkins> My contention is that I can put up a Ruby ticket tracker that covers the requirements quicker
<awilkins> Since I can set up this one I had in mind in an afternoon from scratch, I'm already right
<awilkins> Whereas currently I'm struggling to find the bit I need to patch in this one
<awilkins> Oh holy mentalist it's 173,000 lines of PHP
<diddledan> :-o
<awilkins> Wow
<awilkins> The other system wins so hard
<diddledan> redmine is the other system? :-p
<awilkins> The PHP one is JUST a customer support ticket system
<awilkins> osticket
<awilkins> Redmine is the other system
<awilkins> 115,000 lines of ruby
<diddledan> yeah, redmine is good
<awilkins> Including all the unit tests
<awilkins> The UI and workflow on osticket are good for customer support. So naturally management want to use it to do change tracking. *s8gh*
<daftykins> that's quite the difference
<daftykins> then it's your job to persuade them toward seeing sense :D
<awilkins> Tried that
<awilkins> "We're already using osTicket" was the answer
<awilkins> For 60 whole tickets
<awilkins> Basically one step up from a shared Excel spready
<daftykins> :|
<daftykins> i've been asked to attend a meeting soon for some folk that are about to purchase a CRM system
<awilkins> Yeah, well, I've only administered / transmogrified 5 separate ticket systems with tens of thousands of tickets, and used many more, what the hell do I know...
<daftykins> i'm predicting the current local IT firm are going to be pushing something nasty like an MS SQL server backed product
<diddledan> \o/ MS SQL!
<awilkins> Ugh MSSQL
<diddledan> we recently had to implement Drupal backed by MSSQL - it still isn't working right
<awilkins> No.1 PITA when dealing with expensive enterprisey software is getting people to pay for extra instances for dev....
<awilkins> Even if it's just an MSDN license
<awilkins> Then waiting for it to arrive
<awilkins> And installing it
<awilkins> When you can just sudo apt-get install <stuff>
<awilkins> Even that Redmine instance completely ignoring the OS packages (because gem / bundler and Debian hate each other)
<diddledan> we were told we MUST use MSSQL because they already had a cluster set up that they wanted to add our drupal install's DB into
<daftykins> even if this competitor guy of mine says they'll be using SQL Express, that's jut not good in my mind
<daftykins> *just
<diddledan> I don't get SQL Express at all
<awilkins> It's MSSQL only they set the "PRAGMA_CRIPPLE" flag when they compiled it
<daftykins> i used it for the first time for some client that was contractually obligated to use some horrible facilities management product, i found it nasty - not that i knew what i was doing :D
<awilkins> 10GB db limit
<bashrc> guiding a user through installing things via the software centre, I've always wondered by the icon has an anarchy symbol on it
<awilkins> 1 CPU / 4 core limit
<awilkins> And the kicker, only allowed 1GB of RAM in process
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> at least it doesn't require a windows server host, that would be cringeworthy
<awilkins> Oh, and doesn't support compressed volumes
<awilkins> Not that this matters when your data limit is 10GB
<daftykins> i've not got a clue of any CRM products though so i don't know what to expect, this client just wants this other IT firm off this company because they are very expensive
<awilkins> Consulting firms ALWAYS recommend expensive stuff
<awilkins> I think it's to distract from their bill
<awilkins> Or they get a kickback
<daftykins> :D
<awilkins> WE had one lot that came in recommending StarTeam
<daftykins> their labour rate is Â£95/hr too
<awilkins> Â£34,000 of licenses
<daftykins> ouch!
<awilkins> I said "No, I'll develop the prototype using the SVN server we have in house, ta."
<awilkins> And then sacked off the SVN and used Bazaar instead
<awilkins> Because the checkout time was 2 times faster
<awilkins> Sorry, 6x - 24x faster (depending on version of Bazaar and whether your machine was a horrible corporate malware laden Windows box)
<jpds> and considering git is 100x faster than bzr
<daftykins> actual malware, or Windows hatred there? :)
<awilkins> I'd use Git these days but the Windows port was too painful at the time
<awilkins> daftykins, "Corporate malware" : software that makes the computer do the IT department's bidding instead of yours at the expense of your productivity
<awilkins> In this case, the thing wot hashes every file you access was super fun and took a processing run in the software from about 90s to 14 minutes
<daftykins> ah right
<diddledan> what's the ubuntu project and/or canonical's stance on bazaar these days?
<awilkins> Although the performance improvements I made over the original software were still not swallowed by that
<daftykins> i just phoned overclockers.co.uk who confirmed they've regressed their site entirely to not handle VAT removal either in display or orders now ;)
<awilkins> There's still some traffic on the bzr mailing list, and it still remains the official VCS of Launchpad and Ubuntu AFAIK
<daftykins> nice work, there :>
<diddledan> daftykins, that's sucky
<diddledan> I saw a few months back that launchpad had experrymental git support
<awilkins> HERESY!!!!!
<awilkins> Nah, I liked Bazaar a lot but I wouldn't go back
<diddledan> the problem I have with the various SCMs is that they're all equivalent to walled-gardens like the various mobile ecosystems are
<awilkins> Bazaar tried to be all things (well, more things) and act as a git porcelain
<awilkins> And the various fast-export things + reposurgeon are positive
<awilkins> I do think the best route is to make Git easier and better at handling large files
<popey> yeah, the git support should be fun in launchpad
<diddledan> the accepted solution for large files in git seems to be to store them elsewhere
<awilkins> Pretty much because it's diff handling doesn't do streams I think
<awilkins> So it has to hold the whole file in RAM 2 or 3 times
<awilkins> I still don't understand why e.g. Game Devs use Perforce and advocate so hard for it
<diddledan> doesn't google use perforce?
<awilkins> I remember seeing a blog post by the Star Citizen guys "Hey we turned on <topic branches>, aren't we all grown up"
<awilkins> I just facepalmed.... you're supposed to be _pros_ why wasn't that feature on from day 1 and use of it enforced.....
<awilkins> This was some time after a couple of alpha releases
<awilkins> "Oh hey, we get regressions" OH I WONDER WHY
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> http://www.cameronsworld.net/
<diddledan> geocities isn't dead!
<bashrc> groovy
<foobarry> talktalk hack was allegedly a 15yr old boy
<daftykins> heh
<foobarry> from ulster
<diddledan> I think it was the government and they're scapegoating a 15yr old boy :-p
<daftykins> that there popey has an odd quit message
 * arsenip pokes daftykins 
<daftykins> ow
<daftykins> hi
<diddledan> I really wonder what an arse nip feels like
<diddledan> it sounds painful
<daftykins> i could lend you my cat for an answer
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> nah she's not done that, she's more the one for slowly creeping up to the top edge of the bed sheets... extending a paw as far as she can reach then poking my face
<daftykins> "hey... hey... HEY... hoo-man..."
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-27
<diddledan> teehee: https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/11016250/
<diddledan> x bones are apparently getting the win10 update on the 12th
<daftykins> ah man that's ages away
<daftykins> where's reporting that?
<diddledan> https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/xbox-one/7281/windows-10-is-headed-to-the-xbox-one-on-november-12th
<daftykins> ty sir
<zmoylan-pi> so will there be more or less adverts on the dash? :-)
<daftykins> there's always game ads
<knightwise> morning peeps , how are ya doing today.
<DJones> Morning
<brobostigon> morning obys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> Belts and girls. Whut?
<brobostigon> boys, :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Cranky Co-Workers Day! ð
<awilkins> Go stick your head in a pig!
 * awilkins grumbles
<JamesTait> Mmmm, bacon.
<zmoylan-pi> carcinogenic bacon.... mmmmmmmmm
<brobostigon> lol.
<directhex> does anyone need a pair of aloof, fluffy pets in their life?
 * zmoylan-pi has a bunch of feral kitties, domesticatd cats, the odd fox and crows, magpies and robins around...
<popey> directhex, chinchillas?
<directhex> yes
<diddledan> no neutral nets for us europeans: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34649067
<zmoylan-pi> my packets are more important than your packets...
<zmoylan-pi> but wasn't the bill full of holes so it was a bad law no matter if it passes or not?
<diddledan> donno, I was just posting it for clickbait so I get advertising revenue :p
 * zmoylan-pi loads catapult with useless 1c coins and flings them at diddledan :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, better than the french knights' enimal flinging
<diddledan> animal**
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey0wvGiAH9g
<zmoylan-pi> i'm all out of wooden rabbits
<zmoylan-pi> OR i'm stock piling the wooden rabbits for the planned invasion :-)
<diddledan> ooh, supergirl ep1 is ready for watching on my mediabox
<arsenip> diddledan  - i'm just the arsen internet protocol
<arsenip> ratehr than arse nip :p
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I prefer my way :-p
<arsenip> the beauty of the internet is you may have your way :D
<foobarry> is that like catnip
<arsenip> could be
<arsenip> id rather never find out.
<diddledan> omg, catnip? gimme!
<foobarry> watching britains ultimate pilots. unfortuantely the voice over sounds like somebody taking off jez clarkson
<foobarry> ....in the WORLD
<foobarry> feel so guilty every time i have a day off without the kids
<foobarry> drive myself to work work work in the garden and the house
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Swap? I'll chillax with my pups, you can do my job?
<TwistedLucidity> At the moment I am digging through a rather large spreadsheet trying to interpret what security changes the customers wants, what are possible and how to inform them that their spec is self-contradictory :-S
<TwistedLucidity> Gripping stuff
 * TwistedLucidity snores
<zmoylan-pi> convert it to lotus 123 and declare it secure :-)
<zmoylan-pi> custom rasp pis..... http://linuxgizmos.com/official-customized-raspberry-pi-versions-coming-soon/
<diddledan> security gurus are all tweeting right now about someone having evidence of an evil maid attack against them (this person is Stefan Esser or @i0n1c on twitter)
<popey> ya
<bashrc> clumsy maid
<tripleclones> hey all
<tripleclones> any recommendations for *cheap* GPU's that work with three monitors and Ubuntu nicely?
<popey> PING Azelphur !
<Azelphur> ooo, this my jam :P
<Azelphur> tripleclones: what's your use case?
<diddledan_> I want your monitors, Azelphur
<Azelphur> diddledan_: I sold all the old ones already :P
<diddledan_> nono, the new ones :-p
<Azelphur> hehe
<diddledan_> your setup looks totes amazeballs
<tripleclones> Azelphur, basic - IDE, Remote Desktop, text nothing too intensive
<tripleclones> but would like to play Team Fortress 2 and the like from time to time on one screen
<tripleclones> but certainly not 3D modelling or such like
<Azelphur> tripleclones: I haven't actually tried, but I think AMD is generally a bit nicer for multi monitor than nvidia, however AMD is lower graphics performance
<tripleclones> Azelphur, I saw this
<tripleclones> http://www.ebuyer.com/451860-sapphire-hd-6450-1gb-ddr3-flex-dual-dvi-hdmi-pci-e-graphics-card-11190-12-20g
<diddledan_> yeah IIRC nvidia binary drivers limit the number of outputs you can have active (although they might allow 3?)
<tripleclones> but didn't know if I was being too tight :)
<Azelphur> diddledan_: they allow 3, using it right now. :)
<diddledan_> \o/
<Azelphur> tripleclones: I have a feeling that although that card has 3 ports, it may not be able to make use of them all at the same time
<tripleclones> it says it can in Eyefinity mode
<Azelphur> Then you should be ok, although as I say never actually done triple head on AMD before
<tripleclones> but I don't know if Eyefinity is going to be OS specific?
<Azelphur> shouldn't matter, it was only about the number of CRTcs on the card, which apparently is 3
<diddledan_> I don't really get the pount of eyefinity - native support is better IMO because when you maximise a window with eyefinity (based on really old evidence) it uses all screens instead of just the one screen it's on
<diddledan_> point*
<tripleclones> Azelphur, what GPU are you using?
<Azelphur> diddledan_: the goal is to work with games that don't have multi monitor support, tricking them into thinking it's all one big display
<Azelphur> tripleclones: I'm using a GTX 980.
<diddledan_> aah
<diddledan_> I'm not really a gamer - I use gfx and multiple monitors for productivity purposes
<Azelphur> it can drive up to 4 monitors, as can pretty much everything kepler, but I think nvidia may limit it to 3 in software for Linux.
<tripleclones> yeah thats more then I'm willing to spend atm :)
<tripleclones> shame on nvidia though
<diddledan_> the new amd driver system sounds clever - same kernel module for both the closed and open source varients
<tripleclones> so this would be in my budget
<tripleclones> http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/amdradeongraphicscards/amdr7370series/r7-370p-2sf5.html
<tripleclones> sounds like the sort of direction I should be looking yeah?
<Azelphur> tripleclones: yea have a go with an AMD card, I guess you can always return it
<ali1234> tripleclones: just get nvidia, it actually works
<ali1234> nvidia doesn't limit the amount of outputs you can use with a single card
<ali1234> they limit the amount of outputs you can use when you have two cards running your monitors
<daftykins> nvidia \o/
<daftykins> except for the GTX 970 debacle, that was immoral
<diddledan_> interesting, an MS employee just stated in a keynote at devintersection conference that "guis on the server are poison"
<tripleclones> diddledan_, MS have been moving that way with the core versions for a little while now
<diddledan_> yeah it's interesting that he's effectively saying that they were wromng
<tripleclones> idea being you have all the gui tools on a client :)
<daftykins> i think i read you have to install all of it in most cases, configure, then remove
<daftykins> which is frankly laughable
<tripleclones> we have some at work, I dont know how they were installed but if I want to make changes to DNS for example I have to access a Remote Desktop with the DNS GUI tool and use that
<tripleclones> I'm told I can do it through powershell but no one can tell me how :)
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/MrASingh/status/657884094831960064
<tripleclones> and I'm not wasting any time learning
<daftykins> why do you consider it a waste?
<tripleclones> because I'm not meant to get involved with our windows environment at all
<tripleclones> and I would just end getting involved in lots of things I shouldn't
<diddledan_> I suppose these days if you're a startup you've got two choices: 1) get acquired. 2) get so big so quick that none of the big boys can afford you
<diddledan_> seems pretty much every company goes for option 1
<diddledan_> *sigh* apple have made the most money in corporate history
<diddledan_> (in one year)
<zmoylan-pi> i was going to say what about the catholic church :-P
<daftykins> do you find it amusing that Apple's software for Windows (iTunes and Quicktime) are now the reasons for the most exploited Windows PCs in the US? :D
<daftykins> replacing Java
<diddledan_> oh dear. lol
<zmoylan-pi> AND adobe?? wow
<daftykins> ikr
<daftykins> it's almost cunning planning
<daftykins> i really do wish i could travel back in time and invest in Apple :<
<zmoylan-pi> just means it will be a longer fall to my mind
<diddledan_> it's nearly 250billion this year and ~50b profit
<diddledan_> that's an awful lot of money to wade through till you run out
<zmoylan-pi> a lot will be wasted on accountants :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and lawyers trying to prove it's not money
<diddledan_> if they pocket it they will prolly be able to coast for some time
<prd> i gona sleep. god bless poland
<diddledan_> o_O
<zmoylan-pi> there's been no sign of that so far...
<daftykins> XD
<prd> jesche polska ne zginela!1!!11
<zmoylan-pi> gort, klatu barada niktu
<daftykins> take it elsewhere thanks
<diddledan_> do I smeel some troll armpits?
<diddledan_> http://stopdisablingselinux.com/
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> oh, you follow her too huh?
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> yup
<daftykins> popey: hey what's with you being disgusted all the time? :D always looks like a ragequit XD
<popey> eh?
<popey> oh, i just set my quit message to that
<popey> couldn't think of anything better
 * popey will change it
<daftykins> :)
<popey> fixed
<daftykins> yaaay
<daftykins> it was amusing because i think me and the fellow volunteers were slating Apple again over in -discuss and off you popped :>
<daftykins> which reminds me, we should rescue shauno!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: you speak Irish! ;)
<diddledan_> does "bundle into a car boot with a bag over his head" count as "rescue"?
<daftykins> yep
<zmoylan-pi> i can make a few phone calls... :-)
<daftykins> :D
<ging> i never understood that one
<daftykins> it's from "Look Around You" right?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-28
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy International Animation Day! ð
<knightwise> morning :)
<JamesTait> I miss davmor2's youtube links.
<JamesTait> Who said he could go on holiday?
<zmoylan-pi> his boss?
<knightwise>  yo peeps , how are you doing ?
<JamesTait> ð  knightwise
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan_> yawn
<Azelphur> I'm after something kinda like githubs issue tracker, but just the issue tracker, so me and a few people can collaborate on things. Anyone have any ideas?
<diddledan_> Azelphur: it might be way too featurefull but redmine is good
<diddledan_> alternatively there's the age-old bugzilla (it needn't be bugs)
<diddledan_> Azelphur: this might help choose one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_issue-tracking_systems
<awilkins> You can turn off most of the features in Redmine and just leave the issue tracking
<awilkins> I am biased because I can spin instances of it up relatively quickly
<awilkins> And I like it better than single-task things like Bugzilla
<awilkins> I used to use Trac, that's pretty simple to use on Ubuntu as it has good packages
<diddledan_> yeah I would recommend redmine
<awilkins> Redmine > Trac because Redmine supports multiple projects in a single instance
<awilkins> Trac needs an extra instance per project
<awilkins> Redmine + redmine_backlogs plugin is a nice, functional Agile / Scrum board type thing
<Azelphur> was after something that is hosted not be me
<Azelphur> because I'm lazy :P
<awilkins> Azelphur, https://www.digitalocean.com/features/one-click-apps/redmine/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=NB_SEM&utm_campaign=Alpha_Features_UK&utm_content=v2_NP_hp&utm_term=redmine%20hosting&adgroup=24105426445&matchtype=e&network=g&device=c&position=1t1
<Azelphur> fun :)
<awilkins> The $5 a month option is more than adequate for a small team
<awilkins> Mine is running on a Raspberry Pi 2 behind my TV, and the DB is on my NAS box.
<awilkins> But it worked fine with a sqlite3 db on the Pi
<awilkins> (jus tnot so good for multiple concurrent users with sqlite3)
<Azelphur> I think we're going to go with GitLab
<awilkins> Not played wiht it
<bigcalm> Gitlab FTW
<diddledan_> gitlab is awesome!
<diddledan_> I've just replaced my github subscription and private repos with a gitlab instance
<Azelphur> nice
<bashrc> I havn't replaced github, and still use it primarily for the eyeballs, but I also mirror everything to my own gogs instance
<bashrc> that way if github is down, or turns evil, it's no biggy
<diddledan_> yeah my public stuff is still on github, only my private stuff has moved :-)
<diddledan_> bashrc: is that an automated mirroring or via an extra manual push?
<diddledan_> gogs looks very github cloney :-p
<bashrc> it is a github clone
<bashrc> if you can use github you can use gogs
<bashrc> yes, it's automated mirroring
<bigcalm> Looking to move my VPS. Digital Ocean or Linode?
<diddledan_> DO seems to be the one that has the most mindshare these days
<daftykins> digitalocean are nice
<daftykins> at least in the couple of months i've been running my first long-term one :>
<arsenip> i like my soyoustart dedi :o
<arsenip> used to use linode pretty heavily, they were nice.
<daftykins> can't argue with the lowest end digitalocean VPSs for $5/mo - i cancelled my bigv.io one from bytemark and moved things over :D
<arsenip> hat is cheap - daftykins, where are they located?
<daftykins> you can actually place your VPSs in most cities around the world now, they'd only just launched London back in the summer or so
<daftykins> i think they've got two spots in England now, couple of the Netherlands maybe...
<arsenip> cool
<arsenip> whats the disk provided?
<daftykins> although now CISA got voted in in the US, perhaps we're not safe dealing with a company based out of the US ;)
<daftykins> https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/ have a gander
<arsenip> probs
<arsenip> tho i do work for one.
<daftykins> D:
<arsenip> and im in the US
<arsenip> so
<arsenip> cant get much worse.
<daftykins> y...you are? :P
<arsenip> im currently sat on times sq.
<daftykins> holiday?
<zmoylan-pi> he's dressed as a superhero posing for pics for tourists :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i'm gonna say.... wonder woman.... :-P
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: nailed it.
<arsenip> hah, work - daftykins. :)
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> seems odd for IT work to require travel! :>
<zmoylan-pi> i saw someone once spend 30 minutes trying to get a person to type 2 lines into a computer (pre remote control software) before giving up and driving there and doing it...
<zmoylan-pi> i had warned him that expecting people to be able to type 'cd \video' press return and then 'video' followed by return was too much for some
<popey> heh
<zmoylan-pi> and when we got remote control software (pcanywhere) it didn't fix everything as they usually only had 1 line and were then expected NOT to answer the phone as the computer was going to do it
<zmoylan-pi> in one case after about an hour of trying to get the computer to answer the call and the manager picking up and answering the phone he heard a bucket in the back ground and found out the cleaner was on site so he spoke to the cleaner to stop the manager answering the phone
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i had one that couldn't take a 10 digit number for love nor money once
<daftykins> verbally on the phone, again
<zmoylan-pi> plus of course the usual i didn't type in your password as i don't like it calls
<p42phone> I've got people to remotely drive vi over the phone; now type exactly what I say.....
<daftykins> i'd tell you where to go and pick a sane editor
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> Ahhh PCAnywhere
<p42phone> Well it does depend why their system was broken enough to have me on the phone, but sometimes guiding people through a GUI can be hard
<popey> happy memories of 1990
<popey> Floppy only desktops booting dos & PCA off a diskette. Connected to LAN and multiplexor out to remote locations. people dialled in via PCA to the desktop to access LAN applications.
<daftykins> i more meant a choice of something like nano over vi ;)
<popey> Was fun turning on all the screens and watching everyone working
 * p42phone throws a sun 3/50 at popey
<zmoylan-pi> my favourite all time call though was to set up pcanywhere over the phone.  asked to do it as by guy in accountancy department downstairs. i get a number and a name, that's it. so i ring
<zmoylan-pi> and he answers and is ready and has all the bits in front of him (very rare occurence) and we install the hardware, then the software and as he uses the pc i hear an electronic voice as he types the commands in dos
<zmoylan-pi> it was early days of sound cards so i thought it was some silly software installed and asked about it.
<zmoylan-pi> turns out he was blind and it was screen reading software.  made it one of the easiest installs ever once i could hear what was happening on screen
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> had a blind person coming in #kodi quite a lot of late trying to set it up with TV, film and stuff
<zmoylan-pi> got it running in about 5 minutes, tested and went on to next job when guy from downstairs runs in and announces 'oh i forgot to tell you, he's blind!!'
<daftykins> seemed a very odd desire to me :P
<daftykins> so are we talking windows 9x era with a command prompt window being read?
<zmoylan-pi> this was pre win9x.  win3.1 or win3.1 wfwg if you were lucky
<daftykins> ah ok
<zmoylan-pi> but he was using all dos apps as the screen reader worked best on them.  the blind aren't mad on guis
<daftykins> mmm
<popey> Nice
<zmoylan-pi> what it did was really simple it read out the line that the cursor was on.
<zmoylan-pi> move the cursor up and down and it read the whole line, move if left right and it said letter/number
<zmoylan-pi> uh oh, the balloon may have gone up... :-) http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34660659
<foobarry> got a kindle fire 5th gen today for mrs
<foobarry> not my ideal choice, but she said the amazon lockin wouldn't bother her
<daftykins> i have that one here, a kids edition for a client
<foobarry> is this 1 mobile market alternative safe?
<foobarry> i gotta get youtube and couple of others on here
<foobarry> maybe i'll just sideload them individually
<daftykins> yeah easy enough
<foobarry> except login services need adding for full experience
<daftykins> smells a lot like buying the wrong device for the job, that ;)
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> i thought it was competing services they didn't include
<foobarry> youtube aint amazon video
<foobarry> amazon can't pretend to provide similar apps and services as the good
<foobarry> goog
<p42phone> Tip: don't land at Manchester and expect to get a taxi when there is football on
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-29
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<moreati> A sanity check. Has _your_ Ubuntu laptop ever switched audio playback from internal speakers when you plugged in e.g. USB speakers/headphones?
<moreati> I struggling to get a straight answer from Google over whether that's a feature Ubuntu supports
<zmoylan-pi> my laptop has sound?! :-)
<TwistedLucidity> moreati: I can't say I've ever actually tired. Might be a hardware thing. Which laptop/model?
<TwistedLucidity> Just tried my Kubuntu desktop, it switches from speakers to headphones automagically, and that's with a (spit) Creative Labs card installed.
<TwistedLucidity> Can't think why a lappy would be any different
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Internet Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> isn't every day internet day?
<JamesTait> Also, happy Cat Day.  Totally coincidental, I'm sure.
<zmoylan-pi> no no happy cat day conincides with laser pointer day... :-)
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/zi8VTeDHjcM
<Myrtti> I wonder how much the sales of mini amplifiers has risen since the launch of Chromecast Audio
<moreati> Good point by TwistedLucidity. I hadn't thought of speaker <-> headphones. Plugging in works: audio is rerouted from internal speakers -> headphones
<moreati> Unplugging doesn't have the desired effect: audio is rerouted from headphones to S/PDIF out.
<moreati> Think I'm starting to find the edge pieces of this problem, thank you all
<awilkins> moreati, Last time I had a problem like that, I had to patch a kernel driver
<awilkins> It was a problem in the "patch panel" code
<awilkins> But I don't know where replugs are handled
<moreati> awilkins: noted, thank you. I'll dig into when I have a dull afternoon.
<moreati> ditto, expect it's a rabbit warren of libraries and abstrction layers
<m0nkey__> yerp.
<diddledan_> morning
<bigcalm> Did anybody see what happened to my connection ealier?
<bigcalm> earlier
<popey> * bigcalm has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
<popey> at 14:53
<bigcalm> Thanks
<bigcalm> When my connection goes away and I'm not at home, I fear the worst
<bigcalm> Glad it came back :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i was away from England once, back on the island... when a disgruntled housemate decided to unplug my server from my switch
<daftykins> that was highly irritating :P
<bigcalm> Nasty
<zmoylan-pi> if only someone would make a red dwarf skutter with a rasp pi... :-)
<daftykins> you, sir!
<daftykins> haha, the text colour change of "sudo apt update" stuck with my terminal when i had to break out of it
<daftykins> anyone know if a wily HWE is coming anytime?
<popey> Feb next year
<popey> then another in august next year
<daftykins> ah har, ty sir :)
<popey> np
<diddledan_> I managed to resurrect a bricked motherboard today \o/
<diddledan_> it was dead due to a botched bios upgrade
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> is it still rubbish and old? ;)
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> in those situations can you not do the hotswap trick?
<daftykins> boot a good system, throw it in, force a flash of the other ones BIOS
<diddledan_> it's the most forward-looking of my boards with an EFI vs BIOS in all my others
<daftykins> the hybrid thing directhex said to kill with fire?
<diddledan_> nah, this one is a real one
<diddledan_> I was running the hybrid thing in bios-only mode because this board was dead
<diddledan_> I finally got around to figuring out how to use an SPI cable to reblow the chip from a different system
<daftykins> \o/ did it look like a proper jerry rigged setup? :>
<diddledan_> yup
<diddledan_> cables dangling all over the shop
<diddledan_> the cable I bought had the wrong-size connectors and everything
<daftykins> dooooh
<diddledan_> so I had four of the wrong-size for data and some extensions that I connected combined with a couple jumpers
<diddledan_> it was fragile to say the least - one slight jog and it would have all come apart
<diddledan_> I was holding my breath until the flashrom program said it was verified
<diddledan_> I daren't have moved!
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan_> strangely my windows install is still activated despite the swapping to the different mobo (now that the mobo works I replaced the one I had running)
<daftykins> give it time ;)
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> yeah I'm expecting it to moan sooner or later
<diddledan_> perhaps it's waiting until halloween before it moans?
<diddledan_> I'll wake up in the night to my computer moaning at me
<diddledan_> scary!
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan_> there's nothing scarier than a windows possessed :-p
<daftykins> hmm, xbone streaming Halo 5 now hits 18Mb of throughput
<daftykins> highest i've seen
<diddledan_> ergh, that was a pain... protip, when installing a fancy cpu cooler, read the instructions before you apply the thermal compound. and also watch where those fat fingers wander after the compound is applied - I had to get a load off of my forehead
<diddledan_> in unrelated news, my pc is quiet now
<diddledan_> now. what windows prog can tell me my temperature?
<diddledan_> cpu is current at about 25C
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> diddledan_: www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
<diddledan_> I went with openhardwaremonitor
<daftykins> be sure to click 'More DOwnloads' at the top else it'll be full of gubbins
<daftykins> this one's good as it reads the on-die thermy thingy ;)
<diddledan_> thermite?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> would i trick you like that? yes... but only if i could video the result
<diddledan_> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-30
<mapppaDE> Hi all;(
<mapppaDE> Had internet for a week ans then no more
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<directhex> is it? :(
<brobostigon> morning? yes, 10:22am.
<diddledan_> lol: https://twitter.com/mark_azevedo/status/657600892842082306
<diddledan_> then of course there's MS employees leaking classified documents at tech conferences: https://twitter.com/andrerav/status/658645629208522752
<ali1234> if yesterday was 0xdfec and today is 0xdfed, what's the date encoding?
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure it's not "days since 10th october 1858"
<DJones> Anybody know any programmers with Delphi experience + other languages that are looking for a job based in the north west, just been asked by our IT support if I knew anybody
<zmoylan-pi> delphi, a civilised ide for more civilised times... :-)
<directhex> because everybody loves object pascal!
<zmoylan-pi> it kept away the visual basic programmers... :-P
<awilkins> DJones ; I know the CEO of e-say has some Delphi experience but they're a contractor
<awilkins> And you're not here either
<zmoylan-pi> maybe an advert on myspace... :-)
<diddledan_> seriously freaky - last night I couldn't get the song "englishman in new york" aka "I'm an alien" out of my head. Just popped into currys and the first song they played while I was there was that one!
<zmoylan-pi> co ink a dink
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan_: You can see the future! Quick, what are this weekend's Lotto numbers?
<zmoylan-pi> pi, iota....
<mapps> yay i have internet again
<daftykins> again again!?
<mapps> well it broke and they took ages to fix
<mapps> :(
<daftykins> O_O
<mapps> had it ainstalled 13th october worked for a week then stopped
<Renfried> who is your isp?
<mapps> u-mee
<mapps> not in the uk anymore;p
<Renfried> never heard of it
<mapps> yea
<mapps> because its not uk
<mapps> :P
<mapps> u-mee.com
<Renfried> ahh argentina ;)
<mapps> nopep
<mapps> gibraltar
<Renfried> quiet channel for so many people here
<daftykins> it's Friday night.
<daftykins> was just pondering going to the pub, myself
<Renfried> back in the day nerds and geeks didnt go out at all :)
<Renfried> they left that to the cool kids
<daftykins> mapps: so what's new?
<Renfried> I am using an acer i5-m450 laptop. If I used a Dual core 1.6Ghz desktop, both with 4Gb ram, would i notice a major speed difference? (good or bad)
<daftykins> well "1.6GHz desktop" doesn't mean much compared to a first gen i5, since we don't know what generation of processor it is
<zmoylan-pi> and these days if one is using a hard disk and one is using an ssd?
<Renfried> i have no idea what gen it is, all I know is Intel dual core 1.6GHz.... I was offered a desktop, but have not seen it. It currently has windows 7 on it, I would imagine it is fairly old
<daftykins> yeah that'd be no comparison too :)
<mapps> not much daftykins;)
<mapps> same job same place
<daftykins> :)
<Renfried> both would use hard disk, neither has ssd
<daftykins> Renfried: would need a quick spec check then really.
<mapps> Renfried would be enough for xubuntu
<daftykins> Renfried: it coming into your hands for free?
<Renfried> cheap.... about Â£50. for free I would just take it and try it :)
<daftykins> to be honest something with that clock speed in a desktop is a slight oddity
<Renfried> I am using mate, so would need to run that, otherwise it wont get used
<daftykins> so a small alarm bell is ringing to me
<Renfried> whats wrong with the clock speed?
<daftykins> it's an indication of age
<daftykins> what i'm getting at is if it's a 1.6GHz Pentium 4 someone has windows 7 on, i'd leave it where it is :)
<Renfried> yeah i would too.
<Renfried> but a dual core 1.6 is the recommended specs for mate
<Renfried> but just wondering if it would be that much slower than my i5.....my clock speed is 1.8 with 2.4 in burst mode
<daftykins> but being a P4 (just as an example, i know it's a guess) would hint at really terrible RAM and an old PATA slow disk
<daftykins> so you'd need more detail to make an informed decision
<Renfried> it has everything but speakers, so may even be worth it for a cheap monitor and spare parts
<daftykins> perhaps, though spare parts not even compatible with what you have now if they're too far apart age wise
<daftykins> if it's something easy like a Dell, you could look up the service tag for a detailed spec
<daftykins> or just query the BIOS.
<ali1234> i wouldn't touch anything that's not i5 quad core or above
<Renfried> I want to stick away from intel intergrated graphics, as the one on this laptop is terrible.
<Renfried> ali1234: Depends on what you use it for I suppose. I would love a new laptop but funds are not there. So a cheap desktop that I can upgrade bit by bit may be the way to go
<ali1234> no you want intel graphics on a laptop. dual graphics set ups are a pain
<ali1234> you can get a decent thinkpad for around Â£100 if you shop around
<Renfried> the only game i want to play it cities skylines, but doesnt support intel graphics.
<ali1234> dont buy a laptop for gaming
<Renfried> define decent
<ali1234> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lenovo-Thinkpad-x220-Laptop-Core-i5-2520-4Gb-160GB-USB-3-0-Webcam-/321901360957?hash=item4af2d0f73d:g:CxgAAOSwl9BWKqMl
<Renfried> thats not a bad option, although one dealbreaker, no numeric keypad...
<ali1234> use numlock
<Renfried> U sed to have a thinkpad t42, and hated numlock
<daftykins> no there's nothing wrong with intel graphics, it's just the age of your current system
<Renfried> my laptop is only about 3-4 years old
<ali1234> cities skylines is known to not work on intel tho
<daftykins> the first gen core i5 one? it's rubbish.
<daftykins> (the graphics)
<Renfried> i think it as Intel HD3000 graphics
<daftykins> i thought you said you had a core i5 450M
<daftykins> http://ark.intel.com/products/49022/Intel-Core-i5-450M-Processor-3M-cache-2_40-GHz
<daftykins> first gen HD graphics = terribad :)
<Renfried> am sure it is core i5 450M, it is an acer aspire 5742 laptop
<Renfried> says i5 m450 when i check
<Renfried> cant get it to name the hd3000, cat remember how i did it before, just saying intergated graphics
<Ildera> Hi, I'm looking to get my hands on a 14.04 LTS pressed dvd, but having some difficulty.
<daftykins> Renfried: are you typing from it right now?
<daftykins> Renfried: grep model /proc/cpuinfo
<daftykins> Ildera: how come you need one?
<Ildera> It's for my 92 year old grandmother, I really don't want to have to explain to her how to install from a usb stick, and pressed discs have a longer lifespan than burnt ones.
<Ildera> I do realise it's rather a 1995 sort of problem, but this is what happens when you're 92
<Renfried> daftykins: yes Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU       M 450  @ 2.40GHz
<daftykins> yep so rubbish graphics
<daftykins> i'd not ask more than a working desktop of that generation
<daftykins> can anyone confirm you need a sky subscription card to make use of recording on a sky+ box?
<daftykins> thus be paying the evil company some money? :)
<daftykins> my folks are thinking of buying a box from someone but i think it's a mistake as they won't be able to record for free.
<Renfried> i am sure you do need a sky+ subscription to record
<Renfried> you can use it a freesat box without, just not record, best to buy a freeview dvr
<daftykins> *nod* thought the same, thanks :)
<daftykins> probably best they get a freesat HD box, not sure we can get it down here mind
<Renfried> where are you?
<daftykins> Channel Islands
<Renfried> if you can get normal TV reception you should be able to get freeview, just not sure about HD
<Renfried> teach them how to torrent :)
<daftykins> hell to the no!
<daftykins> well freesat is via the satellite dish, but the cone of influence from the beam tends to ignore us for most channels
<daftykins> actually i think a mate said they can get all the channels on freesat and i got a tonne when i tried it out on my TV (which has freesat built in)
<daftykins> they're never gonna pay for a box though
<Renfried> i have BB with sky, not bad fibre connection 40Mb down and 10Mb up
<daftykins> we have our own telcos with monopolies down here
<daftykins> still 40/5 VDSL2 though \o/
<daftykins> btw that's VDSL2 as well, not fibre :) just marketed as such to sound futuristic
<Renfried> i could go 200Mb with virgin, but they throttle
<Renfried> they class it as fibre to the cabinet (FTTC) but yeah, all openreach is the same,
<Renfried> for someone who started with a 2400 baud modem, call it what you will, as long as it is 40/10 i am happy
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> yeah does me well
<daftykins> a local secondary telco has just installed a direct fiber feed to their managing director's home, lucky swine
<zmoylan-pi> i started with a 2400 baud modem but spent most of the 90s using it in bell 103 mode at 300bps...
<Renfried> i then went to a suprafax 14.4k, then a mightly udrobotics 56k.....1.5KB download speed, could download a full amiga 700k disk in 30 minutes.....lightning fast
<Renfried> *usrobotics
<Renfried> i could upgrade my fibre to 80 down and 20 up, but no need. never needed more than i have
<daftykins> back shortly, gonna grab a pint next door i think
<zmoylan-pi> and file transfer protocol was just moving away from kermit to xmodem...
<zmoylan-pi> then xmodem (crc) for error checking, ymodem for multiple files and then the holy grail of zmodem for resuming after interrupted file transfers :-)
<diddledan_> back on dialup I used getright a LOT
<diddledan_> and it seems to still exist: http://getright.com/
<diddledan_> with a terrible website :-p
<zmoylan-pi> very 90s...
<Renfried> i used z and ymodem from memory
<zmoylan-pi> i thought i'd use ymodem more when i discovered it could transfer a bunch of files but by then i was already using pak and then pkzip to compress all the files into one small file
<Renfried> i still have my usrobotics modem somewhere.... i am sure dialup isps must exist somewhere still...
<zmoylan-pi> i have a battery powered 9600 baud fax modem here i couldn't bring myself to throw out... :-)
<Renfried> I also have a commodore 64 with the 1571 diskdrive that sounds like a couple of woodpeckers mating when you loaded something
<Renfried> or was it 1541.... cant remember
<Renfried> and an amiga 500. havnt used them in 20 years, but still have them
<zmoylan-pi> i still remember poke 808,251 for c64 to disable run stop... :-)
<Renfried> 10 Print "Hello World"
<Renfried> 20 GOTO 10
<zmoylan-pi> and in a local shop the c64 power button was blocked by the counter it was sunk into so they couldn't stop the scolling message
<zmoylan-pi> but in out case it was 10 print "wardy is a leper ";
<zmoylan-pi> poor sod had terminal acne
<Renfried> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2015-10-31
<mapps> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zleap> Are there any instructions on using ubuntu server for a NAS box ?
<zleap> i think i found something http://askubuntu.com/questions/1266/how-to-set-up-ubuntu-server-as-a-nas
<Renfried> for some reason, when I try and watch ITVplayer in firefox it wont start playing the video, but works on chrome. Anyone else have that issue?
<m0nkey_> Probably like Netflix, ITV probably has some DRM which Chrome supports.
<Renfried> maybe, doesnt give an error though like netflix does. It buffers like it is going to start, just never does
<Renfried> interesting, i just got a few crash messages from firefox after i tried itvplayer saying a plug in crashed, even though i dont have firefox anymore, and closed it down manually
<Nokaji> Hi, I've got a canon printer newly installed, (not rebooted yet), it does not display ink levels (but I can send files to be printed). Should I install the poorly rated 'Mtink' (primarily for Epson) or is there a Plan 'B'?
<Nokaji> Canon PIXMA MX925
<Nokaji> (920 series)
<directhex> general case: canon are poorly supported. *anything* working without paying for a proprietary driver is a huge stroke of luck
<Nokaji> directhex: canon supplies linux drivers for print and scan, I'm aprehensive about installing them without doing so via ubuntu software centre etc
<MartijnVdS> Nokaji: canon's linux drivers aren't the best quality
<MartijnVdS> they're some of the worst
<Nokaji> hmh, doesn't sound encouraging. Luckily i can at least achieve the basics such as printing from libreoffice with it
<Nokaji> I thought if it supported CUPS then you were at least half-way home?
<penguin42> if it prints that's way more than half-way :-)
<Nokaji> well it printed without me having to do a thing, other than plug the leads in
<zmoylan-pi> maybe there's a way to make the printer on it's todd to print a printer status page which will tell you how much ink is left...
<Nokaji> zmoylan-pi: Yes there is, it has a neat graphical display
<zmoylan-pi> and hopefully doesn't use a lot of ink doing it
<Nokaji> rumlur has it it won;t work with compatible cartridges though, which i shall revert to
<directhex> i once told a canon rep that we would have to be smoking crack, as a department, to accept their printer drivers
<Nokaji> rumour*
<directhex> this was for a Â£10k departmental printer
<Nokaji> ink price is good for compatible - $5 for a set of five inks
<tripleclones> we were recently told by a canon rep that a number of HP printers these days are re-branded canon devices
<tripleclones> we still didn't go with them
<directhex> not actually true
<directhex> just an attempt to get a sale
<zmoylan-pi> salesmen lie through their teeth to make sale
<directhex> the canon drivers for this room-sized thing were... the quality you would expect for an intern's first project
<Nokaji> so what about MTLINK? - should I try it out at least?
<directhex> e.g. i386/2.2-kernel-only
<zmoylan-pi> one of my proudest moments was making a printout go twice as fast for a fraction of the price quoted by salesman who was trying to get foot in the door of one of our customers
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh, fireworks outside....
<ali1234> better than fireworks inside
 * zmoylan-pi sets screensaver to fireworks.... :-)
<penguin42> ----~~~~*
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh
<bittin> http://www.twitch.tv/twitchinstallsarchlinux :D
<penguin42> oh have they actually got it showing now, the first attempt didn't get off the ground
<m0nkey_> feed just died
<m0nkey_> chat is going ape
<m0nkey_> this is how you halloween! http://imgur.com/gallery/6Gv0ROk/new
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-01
<mapps> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<awilkins> Anyone a user of Freemind?
<awilkins> Can't get the 1.0.1 version to work on Wily with Java 8
<zleap> when installing ubuntu server 14.04 I get a list of options to install different servers,  is it possible to call that dialog back up from the command line please
<penguin42> zleap: Try tasksel
<zleap> ty
<zleap> it is updating atm
<zleap> however i got it installed in a vm,  another user in #dcglug is having real issues
<zleap> just getting it installed
<zleap> penguin42: what about for network configuration
<penguin42> zleap: hmm, not sure if there's a config for that later
<zleap> ok
<zleap> do i need tasksel or sudo tasksel
<penguin42> sudo
<diddledan_> zleap: /etc/network/interfaces
<diddledan_> I think it might prompt anyway
<zleap> ok
<zleap> tasksel works thanks
<Kiev> hi
<Kiev> http://rpne.net - do not openning
<Kiev> why?
<tripleclones> Azelphur, I got a GPU - went for the GTX750ti in the end
<diddledan_> I got a gtx960 on friday
<tripleclones> I only had Â£100 :(
<diddledan_> :-)
<tripleclones> but it does three screens
<diddledan_> \o/
<tripleclones> I was thinking of getting a AMD, haven't faced too many head aches years ago I wasn't confident enough to go back there
<tripleclones> speaking with the guys from Entroware yesterday swung me 100% to stay with nvidia
<directhex> if you don't plan on playing any games on linux, amd is fine
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> and if you don't plan on having smooth driver installs
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> tripleclones: cool, all working for you?
<tripleclones> So far :)
<daftykins> i hope you didn't install the driver from the website
<tripleclones> Why would i do that when ubuntu makes it much more user friendly to use the builtin tools ;)
<daftykins> because users are *ahem*
<daftykins> :D
<tripleclones> :)
<tripleclones> If i wanted to make work for myself I'd have stuck with slackware :)
<daftykins> all the Linux ricers are on arch and gentoo afaiui :)
<diddledan_> rice.. with chilli
<penguin42> neither arch or gentoo bother with installers; I don't get it - I get trying to make sure people learn about their system but I've been installing Linux systems for 20+ years now
<daftykins> i suspect it's a way to keep out the newbies
<penguin42> yes but it's damn annoying when you're just trying to setup a distro
<daftykins> but would you ever put either in for someone?
<penguin42> arch is certainly interesting - it has the latest of everything
<daftykins> it must break on every update :>
<penguin42> I tried it for a few months, but it's update is painful
<daftykins> does it just take you up to versions that are all mismatched and don't work with one another?
<penguin42> no, it's just that you're expected to read a mailing list to see if anything has changed that you're supposed to do something about
<daftykins> ugh
<penguin42> yeh
<diddledan_> you scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy meatball
<diddledan_> (I just got that song in my head for randomness)
<zmoylan-pi> well it is 1st november and it is on back to back playlists in shops
<diddledan_> aye. it's on back-to-back repeat with no other songs in-between :-p
 * daftykins has no idea what this is
<Azelphur> Anyone have any idea why my handbrake is failing? https://dpaste.de/WCuj :(
<daftykins> no libdecss?
<daftykins> oh it spams that but it was a matroska input
<daftykins> also, webdl, you shock me, sir!
<daftykins> best solution, throw that 360 in the bin and buy the missus a one for christmas
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> hmm not seeing anything obvious
<daftykins> i reckon try the GUI and mess with a few parms instead?
<daftykins> *params
<Azelphur> aha figured it out, a nondescriptive message for destination folder does not exist
<Azelphur> bug in my bulk converter not creating the destination folders :)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> ah after your 15.10 install, they were gone?
<brobostigon> an excellant ep of blackadder2 on on dave, where we meet dr samual johnson.
<zmoylan-pi> a sausage?!
<Azelphur> daftykins: nah, was just using my converting script in a way it wasn't originally designed for :)
<daftykins> O;
<diddledan_> were you prodding it with zmoylan-pi 's sausage (see above)? :-p
<daftykins> i hope he was at least asked
<daftykins> https://overclockers.co.uk/ <-- haha 503 without www.
<diddledan_> \o/
<diddledan_> awesome sysadmin work there
<daftykins> can't shop there anymore 'cause o' the VAT hassle :<
<daftykins> Â£48 for a 240GB SSD on ebuyer :o
<diddledan_> awesome business policy too :-p
<daftykins> hmm?
<diddledan_> business policy as in not allowing vat fiddling
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan_> I still wonder how y'all get away with fiddling your tax affairs :-p
<daftykins> genuinely? :P
<diddledan_> you're all fraudies :-D
<daftykins> own government = own rules
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> and yours can keep its' beak out!
<diddledan_> lol
<daftykins> i'm pricing up a skylake build for fun
<daftykins> picking a motherboard is a nightmare
<directhex> is skylake as fast as haswell-e yet?
<daftykins> it's probably not as ridiculous (:
<daftykins> but then, do you even have M.2? ;)
<directhex> um... is there even a 1TB M.2 yet?
<daftykins> capacity on an OS disk is pretty pointless
<daftykins> but nah still Q1 for samsung's 3D V-NAND 1TB+ i think
<ali1234> could someone test http://sdk.sphero.com/ please?
<directhex> 1-disk setup is so much easier than multiple disk
<ali1234> with firefox 41
<ali1234> for me all pages are blank except for the nav menu
<daftykins> directhex: call yourself a geek :(
<directhex> sorry, it's troo
<daftykins> ali1234: glancing
<ali1234> seems to be related to the overflow-x property somehow
<daftykins> ali1234: yep same issue, nav on the left ok - logo top left, two buttons upper right, no body
<ali1234> it doesn't hapen in firefox nightly so it's probably a ff bug
<ali1234> thanks for confirming it anyway
<daftykins> np :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cizzbf8oakzr6nr/spec.PNG?dl=0
<daftykins> pretty cheap!
<directhex> whoa ddr4 has dropped since i bought ym box
<directhex> i paid Â£250, plus VAT, for 32GB in april
<daftykins> you could have 64GB now for Â£300! albeit my prices are tax free
<diddledan_> ali1234: it seems ok in my current chrome
<ali1234> yeah. i suspect ff bug... asking them now
<diddledan_> about reports I'm using the latest chrome (46)
<diddledan_> lemme check in my firefox
<diddledan_> it's ok in safari, too
<diddledan_> yeah it's blank in my firefox like yours
<daftykins> lets try Edge!
<daftykins> works ;)
<diddledan_> yup it's ok in edge here :-)
<ali1234> okay okay thanks everyone :)
<daftykins> but there's moar!
<diddledan_> opera?
<diddledan_> yeah it's ok there too :-p
#ubuntu-uk 2016-10-31
<daftykins> https://guernseyhelp.sure.com/hc/en-gb/articles/211829329-NEW-60MB-BROADBAND- :O
<penguin42> daftykins: It sure makes a difference to the apt-get's
<daftykins> well, i'm already on 40Mb :>
<daftykins> i don't think my line syncs at anything over 50Mb
<daftykins> oh my Tux it has 10Mb up!
<daftykins> i'm sold ;D
<penguin42> yeh the uprate is nice - I'm on 70/5
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> my parents are still on the 20/1 ADSL2, i really feel the pain when uploading snaps
<daftykins> not sure if i should play it safe and check my line sync before i commit to upgrading :>
<daftykins> only getting 50 of the 60 would be a shame, but i'd rather the upload
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, morning girl
<brobostigon> morning amorphous green blob.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh
<brobostigon> i said heh here to, to being called a girl.
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
 * brobostigon found an interesting game last week, ryzom, an mmo.
<popey> name is familiar, but I've not played it
<brobostigon> its entirly oss too.
 * SebthreeBQM10HD found a interesting game in the Ubuntu Touch apps store last week :d
<brobostigon> its name is?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Asteroides
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but how that version of it is done
<SebthreeBQM10HD> is what makes it interesting
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no lives!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> one life and that is it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no lives
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and then how you like control the ship to etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> on a touch device hmm
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Hallowe'en! ð  ð»  ð
<foobarry> hello. anyone tried a piano learning app/site called skoove?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no
<SebthreeBQM10HD> JamesTait,  indeed and  are you going to dress up as a witch ? :d
<JamesTait> SebthreeBQM10HD, what makes you think I need to dress up? ð
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, today is day two of the Ubuntu Touch callender bug :D
<popey> que?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey,  so yesterday we had two 30's
<SebthreeBQM10HD> someone reported htis bug acstaully by the way
<SebthreeBQM10HD> today it has the 31st in green, but on the Tuesday not Monday
<popey> oh, i dont see that because i'm on rc-proposed where it's already fixed
<SebthreeBQM10HD> same issue for  next year,  where
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, oh ok it's fixed
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well it was  interesting :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but yes a bug really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hmm so won't have this next year then or shoudn't next October
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what caused that anyway ?
<popey> dunno, not looked at the code
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, also what's new in that omgubuntu video
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it showed some new unity 8 feature stuff
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but I don't see what's new!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what am I missing ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe files could be opended up from the left bar and that's new, I  don't know
<popey> not seen it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, when do you think the libertine app store will be there :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the graphical
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the easy to install stuff
<diddledan> morning
<foobarry> confession:i don't like clicky keyboards.
<foobarry> noise pollution
<arsen> :<
<arsen> i wish they had the click feel but not the noise.
<arsen> still, i have one at work and one at home, so i'm that guy.
<foobarry> what you do in your own home is ok
<diddledan> but don't tell us about it in a public channel ;-)
<diddledan> "I'll have none of your pre-versions here meladdo!"
<diddledan> that's a hybrid quote from multiple sources that I forget
<diddledan> meladdo is obviously rimmer
<diddledan> but the rest I think is a misquote from rising damp?
<foobarry> vegans, arch users, clicky keyboards, cold brew coffee,
<diddledan> cold coffee?!
<diddledan> that's all kinds of wrong!
<foobarry> hipsters
<foobarry> tis "different" so its better
<diddledan> "I like my coffee how I like my men"
<foobarry> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/oct/29/nitro-cold-brews-energise-coffee-shops
<foobarry> hah the guardian shoudl be on that list too
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37800623?ocid=socialflow_twitter
<diddledan> what's the betting that network rail embed the details of the journey onto the card rather than an ID number which would get matched to the database
<diddledan> oic, the magstrip is dead on them, but staff still let you through
<TwistedLucidity> Simple enough the thwart I'd have thought. Print a bar/qr-code onto the ticket that duplicates the mag. Staff can just scan that.
<TwistedLucidity> Or is just a cryto-sig to prove the ticket is genuine.
<TwistedLucidity> Take the start, destination; GPG; bish-bash-bosh; job's a good 'un.
<TwistedLucidity> Can I have my millions foe the government contract, please?
<zmoylan-pi> no millions for TwistedLucidity, you don't wear the right school tie...
<foobarry> talktalk, my broadband provider also offer a free sim card, similar to what i curretly get from giffgaff
<foobarry> anyone tried it?
<foobarry> could save me in the region of Â£90 per year
<diddledan> hah, I just found a 64MB Sony Memorystick
<diddledan> that was another attempt by sony to proprietarise (that's a real word, honest, guv') flash memory
<foobarry> is it purple
<diddledan> yup
<foobarry> lilac
<foobarry> mauve
<foobarry> ugh
<zmoylan-pi> appeals to female users... marketing said so...
<popey> My first digital camera was one of those sony ones with memory sticks... http://www.steves-digicams.com/f55.html
<popey> a whole 2.6MP
<popey> maybe 3.3, something like that
<zmoylan-pi> as much as i dislike propietary standards i did hear of memory sticks surviving washing machines and other hazards that killed lesser memory storage devices
<popey> the lens flipped over so you could take "selfies" :)
<foobarry> my mum had her credit card pwned. a replacement sent, and the new one pwned
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/Bd0Ts selfie I took 15 years ago on a Sony Cybershot :)
<zmoylan-pi> that was quick service by the thieves... if only we could make them work in the service industry...
<foobarry> she said she only entered it on paypal and amazon and shopping at sainsbury, and petrol at sainsbury
<zmoylan-pi> and not typed the number into the friendly popup asking 'is your credit card number secure?' :-P
<foobarry> i asked her, allegedly no
<foobarry> and no indian men calling from mikrozoft
<zmoylan-pi> is it new shiny card with skimmable rfid chip?
<diddledan> when do the merry-cans vote?
<diddledan> the 8th according to teh googs
<diddledan> so next... tuesday
<diddledan> (I had to look it up :-P)
<diddledan> talk about loaded question: https://twitter.com/omgubuntu/status/793094547295305728
<foobarry> can amazon prime member borrow kindle books for free?
<foobarry> "A Prime membership includes over a million ebooks at no additional cost"
<foobarry> can't find the ability though
<foobarry> Books can only be borrowed and read on Kindle devices (works with all Kindle generations). ...ah
<diplo> This is why I try to only buy non drm'd books
<diplo> Or deDRM them once I have bought them
<foobarry> this is borrowing as part of prime
<diplo> I expect then it's under the ebook app / library bit, I can look in a bit
<diddledan> has anyone tried the re-release of KDE1?
<popey> i can't see it in the kindle app
<popey> doesn't this require Kindle Unlimited?
<diplo> May do, I remember reading about it now
<diplo> Slight price increase on prime, same as the music probably, get a million tracks on prime, pay Â£3.99 extra and you get 10 million
<Azelphur> Managed to get my GPD Win all happy and running Linux properly, http://n.Ç£.cc/nextcloud/index.php/s/XlXkAq0XHiaaBKz :)
<Azelphur> 5.5" laptop is fun :)
<foobarry> popey, click your amazon prime icon at top of amazon page
<foobarry> and it shows what you should get
<foobarry> its not kindle unlimited but lets you check out 1 book per month
<foobarry> also, i recommend the film "the double" by richard aoyade
<foobarry> free on prime
<popey> foobarry: http://imgur.com/a/kzQwn que?
<foobarry> popey: http://imgur.com/a/258k1
<foobarry> The Kindle Owners' Lending Library is available for Amazon Prime membersâpaid Amazon Prime, paid Amazon Student, 30-day free trial, and customers receiving a free month of Prime benefits with a Fire tabletâwho own a Kindle e-reader, Fire tablet, or Fire phone, and features hundreds of thousands of titles. Books borrowed from the Kindle Owners' Lending Library have no due dates and can be delivered
<foobarry> to other Kindle e-readers, Fire tablets, or Fire phones registered to your Amazon account
<popey> i see no way to get to that page
<foobarry> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200757120
<popey> aha, found it
<daftykins> diddledan: Apple are so bad at timers on progress bars, installing the latest OS it said "about 7 minutes remaining" - it's been 10 and still says 4
<popey> seems you have to own a kindle
<popey> not kindle app
<popey> "Kindle or Fire device owners with an Amazon Prime membership can borrow popular Kindle books at no extra cost"
<popey> i have neither device, so not available
<daftykins> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2016/10/msg00008.html cya PPC
<penguin42> ah interesting, flipped just to el
<diddledan> yey https://blog.kaspersky.com/fantom-ransomware/12891/
<diddledan> I'm so glad these guys are super helpful - makes me feel safe that I can decrypt my files when they accidentally get encrypted
<daftykins> none of my clients have been daft enough so far, touch wood...
<zmoylan-pi> the wood is your lart in case they do something that stupid. isn't it? :-)
<daftykins> lart?
<diddledan> live-action role-play toy?
<MartijnVdS> Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool.
<daftykins> ah har
<zmoylan-pi> http://catb.org/jargon/html/L/LART.html
 * diddledan readjusts zmoylan-pi's attitude. quite hard.
<popey> i have a close friend who triggered one of those police warning signs on their pc, demanding money to unlock
<popey> but it was a fake thing, didn't actually encrypt anything
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> phew
<popey> rollercoaster, those two lines, right?
<diddledan> aye.
<popey> he brought it round sheepishly, "help!"
<popey> managed to fix it with extreme prejudice
<popey> also, informed him that downloading music from limewire wasn't a good plan
<daftykins> does that mean wiping it for ubuntu? ;)
<MartijnVdS> even my dad had some malware yesterday.. he'd installed a Chrome extension promising to re-enable Java support
<MartijnVdS> It was adware instead
<zmoylan-pi> no, you install os/2 as they deserve punishment :-)
<void__>  !darthv622 The Girls - Emma Cline(epub).rar
<lubotu3> void__: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<diddledan> err. way?
<diddledan> wat..?
<daftykins> dude, waaaaay.
<zmoylan-pi> someone is downloading epubs...
<daftykins> void__: off you go, back to naughtynet
<diddledan> and is now logged for eternity at logs.ubuntu.com
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> err, https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<diddledan> nearly got the linky right
<zmoylan-pi> could have been worse... could have been looking for a copy of 50 shades... :-P
<foobarry> still wiating for a yodel delivery. their tracking is garbage
<diddledan> foobarry: it'll never arrive!
<foobarry> on the contrary i could follow mohammed in his DPD van earlier
<foobarry> amazon delivery, supposed to arrive today on prime
<diddledan> halloween toys?
<foobarry> digital piano
<zmoylan-pi> look on the bright side.  all the halloween stuff will on clearance tomorrow and it'll be crimbo music and merchandise for next 2 months solid
<foobarry> yodel site is 2 days out of date. amazon say its with courier though
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: noooooooooooooooooooo!
<zmoylan-pi> and in 2 months and 1 day... easter \o/
<foobarry> ooo yodel tweets an replies is depressing reading
<daftykins> the courier?
<zmoylan-pi> they're a nihilist and it's all existential angst? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or they're an american company and it's all happy perky huggy smiley silliness...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: But Aldi have already had chocolate reindeer for weeks
<diddledan> http://hub.dyn.com/dyn-blog/dyn-analysis-summary-of-friday-october-21-attack
<zmoylan-pi> yes but they're not in the important aisle penguin42...
<zmoylan-pi> but tomorrow they'll be everywhere
<daftykins> executive summary "bad stuff by bad people"
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Which aisle exactly is more important than the chocolate aisle?
<zmoylan-pi> the welding gear and steel toe capped boots aisle? for repairing pcs... :-)
<foobarry> staring out of the window for a delivery on trick or treat night is a bit awkward
<popey> foobarry: did they mistake you for a zombie?
<zmoylan-pi> do they not have a cut off time for deliveries... most places in ireland close early on halloween
<Azelphur> Ubuntu 14.04 seems to have a /lib/systemd/system, but it doesn't have systemd, why does this folder exist? is there a way to make use of systemd init scripts in 14.04?
<popey> 14.04 does use bits of systemd
<popey> just not as pid 1
<popey> (like it does in 16.04)
<Azelphur> I see, can I launch a systemd script in 14.04 somehow?
<Azelphur> it seems to lack systemctl
 * daftykins wonders why you would fight it
<foobarry> most deliveries are done by work from home guys out of the back of their car nowadays
<foobarry> or is that just hermes
<popey> amazon own people do that too
<foobarry> fruitlessly tweeting the yodellers
<foobarry> they are asking for irrelvant info
<daftykins> strangely their stuff is carried by a local courier who handles UPS stuff too
<foobarry> gave full address and tracking number. why they asking for my name
<daftykins> i had a UPS card for my missed nespresso coffee capsules delivery
<daftykins> it has all the phone numbers crossed out and a Guernsey one written in biro :D
<foobarry> in other news we caught 4 mice at a spawn point in 2 days
<daftykins> ah you just wanna put a closed crate down over that ;)
<daftykins> PETA might pop by though, i suppose
<foobarry> its a proper tom and jerry mouse hole
<daftykins> hahaha no way
<foobarry> neverseen one like it irl
<daftykins> are you lacking a Tom?
<zmoylan-pi> or an acme catalog of dynamite, rocket powered rollerskates to take them out?
<foobarry> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/10/31/1827219/google-discloses-exploited-windows-vulnerability-10-days-after-telling-microsoft
<foobarry> dirty cow for MS
<foobarry> YESSS can outside
<foobarry> van
<popey> :)
<popey> is the delivery a big bag of sweets?
<popey> or a pumpkin?
<foobarry> SWINES they delivered a tiny package for my wife
<foobarry> not the piano
<foobarry> amazon guy too.
<popey> you're getting an entire piano delivered by someone out of the back of his ford mondeo estate?
<foobarry> bought on amazon but delivered by yodel
<foobarry> i expect it to be attached to his roof
<foobarry> the guy was so confused. i dashed out and saw a tiny package and was crestfallen
<daftykins> a courier van stopped outside my house once, i went to the front door and opened it waiting "i'm not here for you!" he shouted :(
<foobarry> hehehe
<foobarry> the eternal impatience of a geek
<daftykins> i dunno, i actually always go with the free shipping since i know the waiting is the best bit :P
<foobarry> got indigestion from facing forward to eat but looking 90 degrees right out of the window
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/s7bJxZJ
<foobarry> real life mouse hole
<daftykins> wowzer!
<foobarry> that wall has only been there 1 year
<foobarry> our house has ventilation bricks underneath. the mice love it
<penguin42> youch
<daftykins> dunno about you guys but i'm feeling seriously thrown by the time, feels like it should be 10pm easy
<penguin42> foobarry: Your problem is it's a mains powered mouse
<zmoylan-pi> ok you need a block of cheese, some string and a frying pan...
<daftykins> and a pint
<foobarry> debian 9 drops powerpc architecture
<daftykins> ja linked it earlier
<MartijnVdS> Well they'll still compile it, if it compiles
<MartijnVdS> but they won't require packages to build on it anymore
<penguin42> foobarry: Not quite
<penguin42> foobarry: They've moved to having little endian powerpc
<MartijnVdS> 64-bit powerpc
<MartijnVdS> too bad about the old macs ;)
<foobarry> my poor doggy is scared of fireworks
<penguin42> foobarry: Well stop strapping it to rockets then!
<diddledan> foobarry: meh, doggy. _I'm_ scared of fireworks!
 * daftykins locks diddledan's flap
<daftykins> sorted
<foobarry> now on yodel web chat. i want to die
<foobarry> it's not a bot because they just did a typo. or was it deliberate
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/SpuHTmu.jpg - nice little joke on Apple
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> "Looking at your tracking, I'm sorry to say it is unclear why your parcel wasn't sent out for delivery today."
<foobarry> SWINES!
 * daftykins oinks
<foobarry> jokers
<foobarry> âIf for some reason our delivery promise hasnât been met, customers can call or e-mail and we can extend them an extra month of Prime membership,â confirms Amazonâs Julie Law. âBut we donât allow people to abuse that.â
<daftykins> a lady whose laptop i've been looking at, this is the external HDD she was given with her backed up data on - https://www.dropbox.com/s/igr7hir56rwjce4/backup_disk.PNG?dl=0
<daftykins> it's not one of those externals with a virtual optical drive that has encryption software on, so i can only imagine that the small local company she had work on it are entirely incompetent
<daftykins> oh weird, this other clients' macbook actually reads it...
<popey> did they dd the internal (80GB) disk to it?
<popey> leaving the rest unallocated?
<daftykins> no, the contents showing on the mac is all her user data, but just files, no directories
<popey> hah
<daftykins> plus used size is 113GB, so how Windows sees what's in the above image is a mystery to me O_O
<penguin42> daftykins: Something like a mismatched GPT and DOS partitioning?
<daftykins> claims to be FAT32, yet if Windows doesn't read it, it must be using some completely weird cluster size or some such to be invisible
<daftykins> i'm gonna run this one by parted or something yeah, seriously weird
<daftykins> partition table: loop
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> now ubuntu shows the files *and* folders
<daftykins> must be some weird result of whatever which wrote this as FAT32 despite the capacity
<daftykins> ok nope win7 reads it fine, it's just win10 then :P
<diddledan> weird
<diddledan> win10 shouldn't see it any diff, I'd have thunked. I guess they broke something
<daftykins> yeah! just confirmed on my laptop which runs 10 too, no go there either
<diddledan> humings is a great series
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> daftykins: channel 4
<diddledan> second season started yesterday
<daftykins> ah, no broadcast TV here, chief
<diddledan> I didn't watch it on broadcast :-p
<diddledan> I really don't understand the benefit of using a browser other than safari on an iThingie. Mozilla just emailed me to let me know users love firefox on iOS. it doesn't make sense to me 'cos all third-party browsers are just a wrapper around the webview provided by the OS
 * daftykins ponders
<daftykins> actually i suppose ITV and channel 4 on-demand services are free, right? since they're ad supported
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> last time i looked channel 4's only gave really bad SD content
<diddledan> yeah they're still only SD on all4 (the name of ch4's OD)
<diddledan> that's AFAIK
<daftykins> i've been a good boy since the rule change and not even touched anything iPlayer
<diddledan> what do the rules say for you islanders in regards to the beeb?
<daftykins> nothing new to the mainland, gotta hold a TV license
<daftykins> er nothing different, even
<diddledan> bah
<daftykins> well i know they have no way of knowing, but i'm just not fussed either way
<diddledan> that means there's no benefit to being foreigners?! well that's sucky
<diddledan> I thought the whole point of you lot was to make a mockery of our financial rules!!
<diddledan> I want my money back!
<m0nkey_> Just got back from Trick or Treating. We now have enough candy to last us until January next year.
<diddledan> or tomorrow morning if HÃ©lene has her way
<m0nkey_> She's not big on candy. She'll have a couple and that'll be enough for a day or two.
<daftykins> diddledan: me too, i think they lost the memo :(
<diddledan> heh
<m0nkey_> But my youngest, yes.. if she had her way, it'll last less than 48 hours.
<diddledan> :-p good girl!
<daftykins> could be a good lesson to permit it ;)
<daftykins> that dashcam video on the BBC news site of the guy that killed a mother and 3 kids due to looking down at his phone = :/
<m0nkey_> daftykins, very sad.
<m0nkey_> However, I hope more people install these dashcams
<m0nkey_> I have one
<m0nkey_> I had one idiot swerve into me just the other day
<daftykins> oh, proper damage?
<m0nkey_> No, I managed to move out of the way just in time.
<m0nkey_> He missed me by an inch
<m0nkey_> Had the kids in the car with me at the time
<daftykins> guy in another channel has kubuntu 16.10 on an acer laptop with intel core 3 series (ivybridge) graphics and tab rendering/update issues in chrome apparently btw
<daftykins> in case anyone has encountered this
<daftykins> seems wierd that on some boots he'll have 'modeset' referred to as the active driver in the Xorg log and other times intel
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/Brett_Shavers/status/793231982406664192
<daftykins> wow wix.com in trouble over GPL contravention
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> against WordPress
<daftykins> ctrl+F4 o0
<m0nkey_> It's not like WP has ever stolen code before.
<diddledan> if you read about it on theregister, then they might have got the story from me 'cos I emailed their tips address about it :-)
<daftykins> no wai
<daftykins> i once mailed in a tip, got asked for a clarification on one point, then ignored
<daftykins> totally wasn't "So, you're supreme ruler of Guernsey?"
<m0nkey_> I remember WP when it didn't have a password reset function. I wrote it and submitted it. The code was accepted for the next release, I was never credited. So $%^& wordpress.
<daftykins> perhaps you didn't outline your terms!
<daftykins> time for bed, g'night \o
<diddledan> they're MUCH better at giving credit
<diddledan> now**
<m0nkey_> To give you an idea when I contributed, I hadn't even met my wife yet.
<m0nkey_> Heck, I still remember when it was forked from b2
<ali1234> huh, so wix actually is based on wordpress?
<diddledan> ali1234: no, it's their mobile app that is in question
<ali1234> oh, okay
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-01
<diddledan> it's not clear how much they've used from WordPress' app but they have admitted to using some of it (their chief said something like using WordPress code as a library)
<m0nkey_> Isn't it GPL?
<diddledan> yes
<m0nkey_> So all Wix have to do is release their code, minus any propriety stuff.
<penguin42> who said they were allowed to exclude the proprietary stuff
<diddledan> well that's the thing. any code in the app linked with the gpl code, whether it's proprietary or not, must be made available to end-users
<zmoylan-pi> the thing with the gpl is that it is perfectly legal to do certain things with the code.  this doesn't mean the community won't drop on you like a tonne of bricks
 * diddledan sits on wix
<foobarry> wow stallman continues to be a douche
<foobarry> ended up on his website full of unpalatable opinions
<foobarry> the one i recently read is unrepeatable
<popey> new ones or old ones?
<foobarry> unrepeatable one is old and may be well know
<foobarry> but he continues to write offensive new stuff
<foobarry> today about downs syndrome
<foobarry> another classic stallman "I therefore urge you to do as I did, and have no children. "
<foobarry> "When older, often I saw parents rebuke their children for playing with me, or even in my vicinity, assuming it would bother me â without waiting to see if I objected."
<foobarry> it doesn't take more than a few seconds to see what a walking contradiction this man is
<popey> I can see the point he's making about downs, but he's pretty inarticulate about it
<popey> typical lack of empathy
<popey> he can be quite awful.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Extra Mile Day! ð
<diddledan> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> https://threatpost.com/google-reveals-windows-kernel-zero-day-under-attack/121689/
<diddledan> https://t.co/yfGtkebg7e
<diddledan> the video is fun
<diddledan> pinch, punch, oneth of the munth
<diddledan> click bait headline make me angry
<diddledan> headlines*
<diddledan> latest one: https://twitter.com/Sophos/status/793431198689263616
<diddledan> "Do this one thing to protect your social media accounts"... and you'll never guess what happened next!
<diddledan> ergh
<SuperMatt> Have we reduced proper security practicses to clickbait?
<diddledan> seems so
<diddledan> the other related thing I hate is articles that list things over several click-through pages to force you to load a new set of adverts by clicking through to the next page
<diddledan> haha, a government report cites the thread of "script kiddies"
<diddledan> threat*
<zmoylan-pi> but because security practices change all the time how do we expect technots to keep up?
<diddledan> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564268/national_cyber_security_strategy.pdf
<diddledan> why do we have to use the word "cyber" all the time for hacking activities?
<diddledan> from that report: " cyber attacks are growing more frequent" and "From the most basic cyber hygiene, to the most sophisticated deterrence, we need a comprehensive response."
<diddledan> wtf is "cyber hygiene"?
<diddledan> omg, cyber skillz! " through stronger defences and better cyber skills"
<zmoylan-pi> when you run a system that connects to nothing whatsoever?
<diddledan> paging Mr Trump: "The cyber threat impacts the whole of our society"
<zmoylan-pi> a new macbook for example :-P
<zmoylan-pi> does it affect stallman? :-)
<Azelphur> ali1234: you about? Have a problem that'd be right up your street I think, volume buttons on my GPD Win don't work, don't show up in xev, evtest, showkey... :< any ideas?
<diddledan> cat doesn't know how to door: https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/793463879422607361
<zmoylan-pi> that's just cat making maximum disturbance for humans...
<zmoylan-pi> in the meanwhilest... https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/793465866587340800/photo/1
<diddledan> aww, she cute
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  hi
<daftykins> how rude, amazon refuse to ship us TVs now
<daftykins> standard tanktop ;) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/28n8vfhr1wsbgbe/AADRmcil_SYy5ZNyP1jZxSGaa?dl=0
<diddledan> \o/ dust bunnies
<diddledan> Microsoft really are shifting their target audience these days... https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ThW7iTwp/err.png
<daftykins> here comes the fun ;)
<diddledan> isn't that a song? "here comes the fun.. doo dm, doo dm."
<diddledan> so, googley chrome on my windows system is more broken than a broken thing that broke
<daftykins> you must be doing it wrong!
<zmoylan-pi> try not to be spied on that way? :-P
 * penguin42 discovered there's a bakery in York doing Orange and chocolate danish pastries; they're wonderful
<penguin42> I think they may have even been orange curd
<zmoylan-pi> if it's popular surely you can get them more locally?
 * penguin42 has never seen such a confection before
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.thedailymeal.com/recipes/chocolate-orange-pastries-recipe chocalte and orange pasteries turns up quite a few entries...
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how many terry's chocolate oranges are sold every year... :-)
<DJones> penguin42: I've just been pointed towards making green tomato cake, sounds wierd, but is supposed to be similar in taste to carrot cake
<penguin42> DJones: Neither of which appear to me
 * zmoylan-pi remembers having to explain cheesecake to some norwegian friends who'd never heard of such a thing...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I've had many chocolate and orange things, but this was a wonder
<DJones> Me neither, I hate carrot cake
<DJones> May just make green tomato chutney, although it takes days to get rid of the cooking smell
<DJones> Boiling vinager smells like trying to refract crude oil
<penguin42> ewww
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-02
<ali1234> what happens if you write "01 01 * * *" in cron?
<ali1234> specifically the leading zeros?
<penguin42> would have assumed they didn't make any difference
<ali1234> me too
<ali1234> however i've got a report of a cronjob hammering another server, and it has those leading zeros
<penguin42> did the hammering only start last Sunday morning?
<ali1234> possibly
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> yes i see :)
<ali1234> hmm, no, it was before that
<penguin42> damn, was a fun guess
<knightwise> morning
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, morning green blob
<brobostigon> i am a red blob today, :)
<zmoylan-pi> so today, people are on the blob? ::whistles nonchantly::
<brobostigon> not on the blob, are blobs. lol.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Stress Awareness Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> and i haven't prepared for it, oh no, the stress!!
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, you're now aware of stress. Relax and enjoy it. ð
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> Working on a Raspberry pi project at home
<knightwise> Got it to display chromium fullscreen and cycle through a bunch fo tabs with sites
<knightwise> but i would like to have it display a different set of tabs depending on the time of day
<knightwise> I think I can do that with a cronjob , right now i have a startup script that launches chromium fullscreen with a set of tabs
<BigRedS> can't you just kill chromium and relaunch it with the new tabs?
<BigRedS> crude and blunt...
<SuperMatt> or write your own plugin
<knightwise> yep , i think that would be the best wauy
<knightwise> kill and relaunch with a different set
<ikonia> SebthreeBQM10HD: how did your "event" go  ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ikonia, yeah it went alright, but Canonical messed up a bit, got a load of Ubuntu USB's in the end,  with other things.  apparnatly woudn't get usbs since logistics issue, but did get, however they were blank, so much for pre installed ubuntu 16.04
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ikonia, got about 30 visitors I think, so a good turn out for an event like that,
<ikonia> 30's not bad
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok may have really been more like 20, but still :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that's just visitors, not including any helpers etc
<ikonia> not a bad number though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah it's hard to get people to come along to things like that,
<ikonia> yes, you got a bigger number than I thought you would, so kudos
<SebthreeBQM10HD> most came in from Facebook I  think,  since ran a paid advert for like two weeks on  there
<SebthreeBQM10HD> how many did you think would get?
<ikonia> well done
<ikonia> I thought you'd be lucky to get 8 - 9
<SebthreeBQM10HD> will do this again next year, twice next year I think,  plus someoen else wants to do another type of event a bigger one, with well speeches and so on, I don't really have the details  of what he want to do quite, but athat should be intersting
<SebthreeBQM10HD> since what that lug is like in general, it would actsaully be quite impressive if there were three events next year!
<ikonia> very
<SebthreeBQM10HD> indeed
<ikonia> kudos to you, you excceeded my expectations
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ikonia, maybe get some new ones at  the next lug meeting as well,
<ikonia> that would be a nice spill over effect
<SebthreeBQM10HD> indeed
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I think going to get one or two at the next one from event
<SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe more
<SebthreeBQM10HD> could do with new people there in genreal, we aren't muc hof a group anymore
<SebthreeBQM10HD> about five people at most usaully, but sometimes it's so bad only like well two of us hmm, been there on on own once or twice before even,  in four years
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ikonia, when did you last go to one? years and years ago I guess
<ikonia> at least, I more socialise with individual members outside of meetings
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  yeah Alex I guess, but whom else?
<ikonia> Alex, Dave, Shevek,
<SebthreeBQM10HD> which Dave?
<ikonia> seen Matt very sparing lee
<ikonia> hodge
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok al old members that don't really come to meetings anymore it seems
<ikonia> yeah, none of that lot do
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so don't know them
<ikonia> ahhh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> why did Alex stop going ?
<ikonia> similar reasons to me I believe
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I have mett Alex there a few times before, but been over a year now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it's like theri are three groups
<SebthreeBQM10HD> those who come to meetings,  those who just stay on the list, and those who hang around on  perl irc netework
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so it's a rather split LUG
<ikonia> thats not unreasonable, but you'll find it used to be more together, but it became pointless
<SebthreeBQM10HD> became pointless how ?
<ikonia> as it was clear nothing was going on apart from pointless meetings to talk about how to install linux
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well it' not really about installs now, just general chat stuff yeah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> show some devices maybe, well I do :D
<ikonia> but the core older members are gone now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well some who are stll there, who go back quite a few years
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Peter for example
<ikonia> Peter ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not sure how long he's really bene there, but over five years I think
<SebthreeBQM10HD> over six even
<ikonia> can't picture him
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but yeah even David Smith doesn't really come to meetings anymore hmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so as you were saying core older members
<ikonia> ahh I know who you mean by Peter
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but there is stil a group of some sort, I guess it will just have to change with the times a bit
<SebthreeBQM10HD> have event for example, but aimed at public etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> try and get  some newer people in like that etc
<ikonia> you still don't really do anything though
<ikonia> there is no real content or stuff going on
<SebthreeBQM10HD> in general it's jst meeting at a pub yeah, so nothing that special, indeed
<ikonia> right, so why bother
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yep  actsual open source events are better
<SebthreeBQM10HD> FOSDEM etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ever been to FOSEM?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> thats coming up
<SebthreeBQM10HD> again
<ikonia> thats not really the same thing
<ikonia> a lug is not an open source event
<ikonia> it's supposed to be a group of people doing things and supporting each other as a group and sharing info and stuff like that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ikonia, I guess some of us like going to a meeting with fellow geeks more so than others,   don't know what you do, but I guess if you work with them like al the time, then that's not going to be the same
<ikonia> yeah, but even when you meet up it's not really anything of interest of value
<ikonia> certainly the last time I attended it wasn't
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well Linux mostly just works now etc, so what info is there to sahre really?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> excetp for newbies
<ikonia> exactly, it's more than installing liniux
<ikonia> this is more whole point - if you're just meeting up to discuss installing linux, thats just a waste
<SebthreeBQM10HD> we arent meeting to discuss instaling LInux
<SebthreeBQM10HD> we are  meeting as fellow people who use Linux, for social
<ikonia> and thats why no-one turns up really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but yeah not really learing anything new or as such, from meetings, if that's what you mean
<ikonia> not even learning
<ikonia> you look at all the rich technology and data thats available in the local area, and nothing is done with it, nothing to aid linux, nothing to aid the locals, nothing to work as a group togheter on, nothing to actually "do" anything
<popey> LUGs in the UK are dying out in favour of makerspaces
<ikonia> just sit in a pub saying "I don't like fedora, I love suse though"
<popey> and amusingly some makerspaces now have LUG 'chapters' inside them!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Makerspaces is diffenret though  wel
<ikonia> I just think (especially ours) has lost it's way
<ikonia> some are still thriving
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the maker movmentent is  another hting
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ikonia, how do you think our one should be like ideally?  altough I think I am understanding you more from what you were saying
<ikonia> basically how it used to be, where people talked about stuff, actual content, people did something to prove something worked/didn't work, fed that back, aided people, helped people, a community, rather than just noise
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so you would  want people getting support at those meetings ?
<ikonia> if they need it
<ikonia> helping someone out is a valid part of working together
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well we haven't really had any newbies turning up there recently...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but hey events may change that a bit
<ikonia> ddoens't have to be "new"
<ikonia> experienced people will require help
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yes  I undertand what you mean in genreal
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not just newbies
<SebthreeBQM10HD> anyone who needs help
<SebthreeBQM10HD> seems most of the LUG support is done on the mailing list for now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, LUGs dying out in favour of makerspaces hmm, how so  in your opinion ?
<popey> eh?
<popey> just an observation
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh ok
<popey> there's a combination of people moving away from desktop linux
<popey> and for other people desktop linux just working
<SebthreeBQM10HD> to embeedded ?
<popey> and people not having spare time for hobby stuff
<popey> no, to macs or windows
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and ubuntu tablets :p :D h eh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> desktop linux mostly works, well when sticking to distros such as ubuntu,  mint, mageia, o pen suse, pc linux os etc even fedora I suppouse
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so less support issues  at lug meetings
<SebthreeBQM10HD> plus most people have good Internet now henc e channels such as ubuntu being so popular
<foobarry> i would expect LUGs and mailing lists to die out tbh
<foobarry> and irc chans
<SebthreeBQM10HD> mailing lists are used by projects etc to
<SebthreeBQM10HD> mailing lists won't just die out  used by other type of groups to
<foobarry> decreasingly so
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and irc won't jst die chat rooms still used
<foobarry> because mailing lists suck
<SebthreeBQM10HD> irc is one of the oldest technologies that's still used to
<foobarry> like forums
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I am not that keen on forums
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and mailing lists can be ok
<zmoylan-pi> slack would love that usage...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> slackware /
<popey> well, if you look at the replies to my recent tweet about slack vs irc...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what's slack
<popey> you'll see a lot of people have the opinion that slack > irc
<foobarry> irc for hipsters
 * SebthreeBQM10HD doesn't really use Twitter has an account, but...
<penguin42> yeh lots of people like slack
<popey> web based proprietary irc
<zmoylan-pi> slack is the new shiny centralised for profit irc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<popey> it's incredibly popular
<SebthreeBQM10HD> there was something on some wehre hte other day maybe
<SebthreeBQM10HD> link ?
<penguin42> it's why I'm trying to help out Matrix which is one of the open alternatives
<foobarry> i heard someone say they used slack because there are git webhooks. although irc had it for years
<penguin42> one problem is irc is really bad on intermittent connectivity like a phone
<foobarry> i joined a slack channel yesterday because nobody was using the irc chan
<SebthreeBQM10HD> got  a link for slack ?
<foobarry> slack does the message history like when you have a bouncer
<zmoylan-pi> popey said it best :-)  RE https://twitter.com/popey/status/793399003463516160
<popey> that tweet blew up a little
<zmoylan-pi> you hit a nerve...
<popey> i think so
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that link didn't work
<popey> wfm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> 0 not on it
<popey> 101K impressions of that tweet :S
<foobarry> i have 1 chan oopen and it doesn't work well on firefox
<foobarry> i used to subscribe to linux magazine for years
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so how to get on a slack
<SebthreeBQM10HD> channel  /
<foobarry> u need an invite
<popey> you have to be invited
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so it's some propritary thing
<popey> some projects have a link which do that
<popey> yes
<SebthreeBQM10HD> by some compnany ??
<popey> 12:44 < popey> web based proprietary irc
<popey> yes, slack
<popey> inc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> who owns slack ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> slack inc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> whoever that is
<foobarry> then i realised that they recycled their content every 3 months pretty much. a bit like the daily express. i realised i was reading the mag anymore
<SebthreeBQM10HD> web based hmm, so a website not a program ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> slack is popular?
<foobarry> among the hip kids
<SebthreeBQM10HD> thats ntohing new some new chat app etc coming along
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that's propritary
<foobarry> like zsh.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and gains a market
<SebthreeBQM10HD> we had skype
<SebthreeBQM10HD> we had whatsapp etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> seems I  don't need to use whatever slack is for now
<foobarry> popey: want to read something horrific written by stallman?
<foobarry> you might not sleep again. or want to use gnu
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok waht is it
 * SebthreeBQM10HD isn't scared of reading stallmsans things :D
<foobarry> you will be
<popey> again?
<foobarry> worse
<foobarry> https://www.reddit.com/search?q=stallman+apologist
 * SebthreeBQM10HD saw  him do a talk three years ago in Bath, talked to him breifly after
<foobarry> indirect link due to avoidance of keywords
<foobarry> should contain one result
<popey> oh yeah, seen that before
<foobarry> i saw it in another form before
<popey> rms and esr are basically terrible people
<foobarry> he mentioned it regarding some other incident
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, who's esr?
<foobarry> eric s raymond
<foobarry> i'm unaware of esr unpalatable view
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, foobarry there's always some rubbish about RMS here and there, since he is differnet in cerain ways, from most other people
<foobarry> for sure. i know lots of aspies and ASD people
<foobarry> they can be blunt and myopic
<SebthreeBQM10HD> probably most geeks are a t least slightly aspie
<foobarry> but this is clearly wrong, in no way is this redeemable
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey seems normal enough h eh, but there must be something secret about him, to that isn't so normal. h eh
<BigRedS> foobarry: he's a bit of a gun nut
 * SebthreeBQM10HD has things to do bye
<SebthreeBQM10HD> bye
<popey> o/
<foobarry> he's rather racist as well it seems
<foobarry> esr
<foobarry> actually the racism tag needs revisiting after reading his article more carefully
<foobarry> but it looks like he can't help himself from "going there" with taboo articles
<foobarry> from rms website:
<foobarry>  I'm looking for people toâ¦
<foobarry> write a recipe for how to connect to the WiFi in a Mcdonalds without running its nonfree Javascript code. The recipe could include a free Javascript program I could run, or it could consist of instructions for what I would type into IceCat (our variant of Firefox). It doesn't have't be super convenient, it just has to work.
<penguin42> what does their JS do?
<foobarry> not sure if all JS is evil, or just some
<Laney> Presumably you can't modify or redistribute it, thus it is non-free software
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/5fEuORU.jpg
<foobarry> almost NSFW
<zmoylan-pi> still better than bill gates doing same in 70s
<zmoylan-pi> http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/8511_8043_billgates.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> *80s
<foobarry> but you can't see his guy poking out from gates' shirt
<foobarry> gut*
<zmoylan-pi> i wouldn't trust the code from a gutless programmer.... :-P
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: that sounded very klingon :)
<penguin42> hmm should have dropped the cache times on my dns yesterday
<zmoylan-pi> well there is the klingon code meme... http://www.klingon.org/resources/klingon_code.html
<knightwise> HA!
<diddledan> I like this one: Klingons do not "release" software. Klingon software escapes, leaving a bloody trail of design engineers and quality assurance people in its path.
<foobarry> is there a way to disable ublock origin globally without disabling the add-on
<foobarry> clicking the power symbol seems to do on a page basis only
<foobarry> https://blog.lastpass.com/2016/11/get-lastpass-everywhere-multi-device-access-is-now-free.html/
<diddledan> looks like their putting ads in the freebie version?
<diddledan> they're**
<diddledan> damn, it's rare I get a there, they're, their wrong
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan: into each life a little reign must fall... :-P
<daftykins> 15% off the Dell XPS 13 9350 on the Dell Outlet right now until midnight Friday, though none are in stock right now
<daftykins> http://www.dell.com/learn/uk/en/ukdfh1/campaigns/shop-outlet-deals
<popey> they run out of stock super fast
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think that would encourage them to make more
<popey> they do!
<daftykins> yip used and watched it for years, myself
<daftykins> when someone needs a machine anyway
<daftykins> http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2016/11/02/207860694/bill-murray-gave-random-cubs-fan-ticket-to-game-6-and-let-her-sit-next-to-him
<daftykins> Bill Murray, all around cool guy
<m0nkey_> OK, lets talk password managers. I need something to replace LastPass. I like the sync, browser and android integration. Any ideas on what I can use that has a similar feature set?
<daftykins> never touched 'em
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-03
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise>  hey diplo Â²
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Men Make Dinner Day! ð
<JamesTait> Which - coincidentally, I'm sure - is also Sandwich Day.
<BigRedS> Ah! cereal-for-dinner day again!
<JamesTait> Ironically, I make dinner every day except Thursday, which is take-away day.
<foobarry> can anyone help me remember the name of a game
<foobarry> android game where there's blobs that need sucking other blobs in
<foobarry> has good sound effects
<JamesTait> World of Goo?
<foobarry> i want to say sonos
<foobarry> the blobs look like burning suns
<JamesTait> No idea then.
<foobarry> hah osmos
<foobarry> https://www.humblebundle.com/store/osmos
<TwistedLucidity> Osmos is a nice little game
<foobarry> nice escapism
<Myrtti> https://twitter.com/myrtti/status/794121262691995648 :-(
 * zmoylan-pi has noticed a tiny scratch on my dumb nokia screen... i don't remember been in a horrific accident or having it struck by meteorite... :-P
<knightwise> you
<knightwise> are alll
<knightwise> that I need
<knightwise> ...
<knightwise> Wanted to type in Youtube
<knightwise> Been listening to a LOT of soundmixes on youtube lately
<foobarry> not often i get surprised by computers
<foobarry> except last night i plugged the usb from the digital piano into the laptop, opened up skoove.com and it knew what keys i was playing!
<TwistedLucidity> Next up: foobarry's piano partakes in a DDoS concerto.
<foobarry> not sure what windows would have done - install drivers?
<TwistedLucidity> "You hardware is not working correctly, would you like to search on-line for a solution?"
<foobarry> he trick is that MIDI over USB is a common standard that every single USB controller uses. Therefore, since ALSA supports that standard, Ubuntu users need no additional drivers to use such keyboards. Just plug it in a free USB slot and ALSA will immediately discover it.
<TwistedLucidity> If I tries that, I'd get an error message from ALSA: Stop, please stop. No. Can't take it any more. STOP! kill --self
<foobarry> that article from 2012
<foobarry> no idea what handled it but it was seamless
<foobarry> https://lmms.io/ looks cool
<Azelphur> oO, Company called FreedomPop are selling sim cards for 99p with 200 minutes, texts and mb data free forever after that
<Azelphur> I'm thinking would be really cool for gadgetry that needs to call home
<foobarry> how many mb
<foobarry> 200?
<Azelphur> yea
<foobarry> so disposable sims?
<Azelphur> pretty much
<Azelphur> seems like, anyway
<m0nkey_> We get royally screwed with cell phone plans here
<m0nkey_> Your basic package, which includes 1000 mins of calling, 1GB data, $50/month
<m0nkey_> If you want anything more, that figure easily doubles.
<m0nkey_> So let me get this straight. You get 200 mins/text and 200mb data for free? How does that work?!
<diddledan> m0nkey_: is that a sim-only price or do you get a cheapo phone with that?
<m0nkey_> 99p for the SIM
<m0nkey_> And you get free calls, text and data each month
<m0nkey_> That's a bargain.
<m0nkey_> But what's the catch?
<Azelphur> m0nkey_: I guess that the allowance is low?
<m0nkey_> Do they mine data from it?
<Azelphur> maybe so
<diddledan> the catch has to be that they charge a premium if you go-over the limit?
<Azelphur> maybe
<diddledan> good for jason bourne to be able to use for a burner though :-p
<m0nkey_> It may be worth getting one sent to my parents address for when I visit.
<Azelphur> diddledan: I'm just thinking it'd be awesome for little gadgets that need to call home
<Azelphur> eg GPS trackers
<diddledan> yeah that would be nifty. also for home-build things that you want to be able to contact wherever it might end-up
<Azelphur> exactly
<diddledan> like rockets :-p
<diddledan> and weather baboons
<m0nkey_> apparently I just won a $50 amazon gift card
<Azelphur> makes me want to instigate my plan of fitting a GPS tracker inside the empty drive bay in my laptop
<diddledan> m0nkey_: awesome
<m0nkey_> (yes, it's legit)
<diddledan> Azelphur: that's a really good method for stealthily tracking if it gets nicked. I like that plan
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, always wanted to do that.
<Azelphur> diddledan: SATA has a 5v rail and most of these things charge on microusb
<Azelphur> so it could charge whenever the laptop was on, and just sit there forever
<diddledan> more reliable than these things like prey.com because it would carry-on working even if the device is wiped or was never used on a network
<Azelphur> indeed
<diddledan> I'm liking the sound of this more and more
<Azelphur> diddledan: could even put it inside the chassis of a SSD so even if they stripped the laptop they wouldn't notice.
<Azelphur> ain't no-one gonna strip down a "broken" SSD :P
<m0nkey_> It's nice to have a chair that doesn't squeak all the time. Took the thing apart and doused it in WD40.
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I made a thing for Windows users: https://fbhub.link/
<diddledan> seriously good Rey cosplay: https://blog.adafruit.com/2016/11/03/how-to-make-the-force-awakens-reys-arm-warmers/
<daftykins> wearing rags like a pro
<diddledan> new thunderbolt macs don't work with thunderbolt things: https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/03/2016-macbook-pro-thunderbolt-compatibility-issues/
<penguin42> huh I wonder why
<daftykins> TI controller chips vs intel could be it
<penguin42> it's a standard - right....
<penguin42> you'd think they'd do interop tests
<daftykins> and we'll never hear shauno defend it :(
<penguin42> ?
<daftykins> well, Apple devices in general
<diddledan_> insider build update installing on me pc now. I'm on my mac while it does so
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> i wiped this clients mid 2010 macbook with Sierra t'other day
<diddledan_> did sierra mind you wiping things with her?
<daftykins> amusingly i know a guy with the nick in another chan
<diddledan_> tis a girls' name!
<daftykins> he asked not to be squeezed onto a flash drive...
<diddledan_> "you've got a girls' hand"
<daftykins> m'lud
<diddledan_> yey for recognising the reference
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> in some game the other day a pickup item was named "Purest Green"
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> hmm, I've got a hankerin' to watch B5
<popey> diddledan_: i typed "huh" into fbhub and got "Bad Request"
<daftykins> seems accurate :D
<popey> diddledan_: did you see that guy showing a new macbook pro which drops off wifi when a usb c device is attached
<popey> its quite fun
<popey> he's a semi-famous repair guy from NY
<daftykins> oh is that Louis ?
<daftykins> Rossman
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYVjIjBMx6o
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> his vids are ace
<popey> i like the title of tha tvideo
<popey> yeah
<penguin42> I was surprised the Apple shop didnt have the new ones on display yet
<penguin42> popey: It's a fairly normal US expression isn't it?
 * daftykins thinks so
<marxjohnson> dnsmasq keeps dying on my 16.04 server.  Can anyone suggest how I can track down why?
<daftykins> #ubuntu-server would be better for that.
<marxjohnson> daftykins: thanks
<penguin42> popey: One of the comments mentions yee-oldee intel paper telling you to be careful of USB-3 vs wifi - so it could be that I guess
<diddledan_> ok, popey , that's broken. it's not supposed to give "bad request" in response to a problem, but is supposed to show a pretty error page
<diddledan_> I must have something misconfigured somewhere
<popey> diddledan_: happy to test further, I'm good at breaking stuff
<popey> marxjohnson: do you use lxc on that box?
<daftykins> i don't really want to defend Apple but Louis is using some sketchy third party adapters right there, goes some way to explaining things not working
<penguin42> daftykins: It's a standard port, it should work with standard peripherals
<penguin42> daftykins: and he shows it working fine on his Dell
<popey> he uses the same port in non-apple devices too
<popey> he very clearly says they're not el cheapo
<popey> and has a point that it's a 1600$ laptop, you shouldn't have to spend 80$ on a dongle to just attach it to a projector
<marxjohnson> popey: I have done at some point
<daftykins> penguin42: yes but it's new, you've read about the USB C issues right?
<popey> marxjohnson: when did it start crashing?
<daftykins> popey: yeah i can understand that but if you buy some thing off amazon and say it's not cheap that's not proof XD
<popey> doesn't make it crap either
<popey> no doubt a firmware / software update will come soon enough
<popey> it looked to me like the cpu was badly stuttering
<penguin42> daftykins: His other point is that they'd taken away all the other ports, so 'yes but it's new' should have an easy way to fall back to stuff that works
<popey> the keyboard noise was interesting too
<popey> someone told him to go to settings and turn the keyboard volume down
<daftykins> yeah i just got to the keyboard noise part
<popey> which I can't tell if it was a joke, or serious :)
<daftykins> penguin42: right but Apple's decision to do that is 1) utterly stupid and 2) already a given to me before discussing the video content really
<popey> like, whether it's some audio haptic thing to make it feel more pro
<daftykins> i read they only have 0.55mm travel, that'd be nasty
<popey> I do actually like the idea of USB c everywhere
<popey> it's just a bit too soon
<popey> #courage
<daftykins> yeah, Apple always want to be the ones seen to be pushing the boundaries of course
<daftykins> and sites that review their gear can't even be honest because they'll be blacklisted from attending events, like The Register
<popey> heh it's an accolade to get banned by apple these days :)
<daftykins> they are quite the evil company
<diddledan> popey: should be fixed now :-)
<popey> yay
<diddledan> I had to wait for my Windows box to return from installing to get at the code :-p
<daftykins> diddledan, #1 Windows tester
<daftykins> :>
<marxjohnson> popey: first time was around 6-8 weeks ago (that I noticed)
<diddledan> ubuntu podcast time: I used Gentoo as my daily system back in 2005 era
<daftykins> gentoo anonymous
<popey> marxjohnson: sorry, no idea.
<daftykins> what role does dnsmasqd play in a server environment if a static IP is in use?
<daftykins> -d
 * daftykins finds automagic stuff is always good to murder
<daftykins> ah i wish i could remember which technology it was, but there was definitely a new interface or display type that made ubuntu of whichever version at the time have that same mouse pointer lag
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-04
 * zmoylan-1i sends email to dm of this weekends d&d session to start windows now to get the updates out of the way so we can run the character generator software for 5 minutes... :-)
 * daftykins sends instructions on how to use Windows to avoid that
 * zmoylan-pi hopes it wasn't using outlook/exchange combo as those never make it... :-P
<daftykins> haha, nah i don't use MS office or Outlook
<zmoylan-pi> so there's some hope for you... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> lotus notes? :-D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i actually get by on the web UI of my personal gmail + now my work google apps (or that new name for it that i keep forgetting)
<daftykins> G... something
<zmoylan-pi> i remember getting a demo of that from a high end ibm bod when it was released... he didn't have a good answer when i asked why a single person at home would use it
<zmoylan-pi> *demo of lotus notes
<daftykins> probably the same reason i find folk always want Outlook for the basic sending of emails
<daftykins> which one is it on Linux that seems to have copied the entire look of Outlook, hrmm
<zmoylan-pi> evolution...
<zmoylan-pi> i actually use that... once a week to suck all my emails down to one local file
<zmoylan-pi> claws otherwise to imap my email on desktops
<daftykins> mmm kinda telling design
<zmoylan-pi> the gmail app on android sucks
<daftykins> works great for me
<zmoylan-pi> it's only marginally worse than accessing gmail using opera mini on dumb phone...
<daftykins> 2 taps to switch between personal and work accounts, or i can just view a combined inbox
<daftykins> oh are we talking some gmail client on some device that's likely to be outdated?
<zmoylan-pi> no, the gmail app
<daftykins> right but on what platform?
<zmoylan-pi> it doesn't like my 8" tablet and constantly shows connection errors when accessing email.  other apps are fine
<daftykins> and what's that tablet running?
<zmoylan-pi> android 5.1
<daftykins> hmm, well too many combinations to point the blame... never had any problems
<daftykins> if i had a different type of workload i would probably benefit from a local client for offline use, but thankfully i don't so i'm good :D
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's trying to be smart and ignore my request to keep 30 days of email for some labels local...
<daftykins> ah well there's the problem!
<daftykins> you know lubuntu murdered my old PIII Dell LS400 laptop :(
<zmoylan-pi> it was a handy feature to read email when not connected and get some work done
<daftykins> mmm in days of old, now we're online all the time!
<zmoylan-pi> in the study with the usb drive? /cluedo
<daftykins> oh it only had v1.1 and couldn't boot from it :)
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not. i'm off and away from the net a few hours per day even if my presence on irc suggests not... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> burn a cd with lubuntu...
<daftykins> that's what i did do yes, installed it - and it killed the machine
<daftykins> no longer powers on
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure lubuntu has that power...
<daftykins> murdered!
<daftykins> well, it happened
<daftykins> i'm wondering whether i should bother wiping the HDD in there, the only thing of mine it'd have is the password i put into the OS install
<daftykins> doesn't seem like much of a risk
<zmoylan-pi> i have had ancient hardware die when i examined it... usually it's hardware on last legs and my moving/examining/upgrading it is the electronic straw that breaks the digital camels back
<daftykins> mmm maybe
<daftykins> quite the stash of gear to get rid of there though :> hoping the new head of IT at my old College will come and get it
<zmoylan-pi> i remember examining an ancient wang pre dos computer running dos 2 iirc... i just did a chkdsk and it died...
<daftykins> that's pretty intensive ;)
<daftykins> brb hot chocolate o'clock
<zmoylan-pi> nearly time for my ap to perform ritual reboot too
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> that reboot saves a lot of swearing at the lack of internetz once twice a week
<daftykins> so a WAP/router that grinds to a halt eh?
<zmoylan-pi> it'll allow you to connect but you won't get a single packet out of it until it's rebooted
<zmoylan-pi> it's web page will say everything is fine and dandy and it's properly connected but try and browse/download... nada
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> the guy at my telco that tried to say i can't have the new service today asked if i wanted yet another router... :D
<zmoylan-pi> in my day we only had to deal with lgls... none of these lwps
<daftykins> i do wonder about the Technicolor ones they put out, unpatched Linux and all
<zmoylan-pi> you should take it and make a token pole out out all the routers... :-)
<daftykins> that could work
<daftykins> i might be committed to make a quirky outfit and a song, then
<zmoylan-pi> except for silly companies who make routers that are curved, rounded so you can't put other devices on top...
<daftykins> or shaped like a crab
<zmoylan-pi> an outfit made of micro:bits like scale armour... a coat of many distros...
<daftykins> i'm trying to think of a good native american nerdy name
<zmoylan-pi> is chief parallel processor taken? :-P
<daftykins> ooh that works
<zmoylan-pi> d&d helps my word play... the puns will be thick and fast this weekend...
<zmoylan-pi> i did have a look for actual native american names but the lists are sparse and will be lacking any real technical links... http://www.babynameguide.com/categorynativeamerican.asp?strGender=&strAlpha=D&strCat=Native-American&strOrder=Name
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ooh can't wait for my new speeds to be enabled this morning (maybe) \o/
<zmoylan-pi> you won't have delays in malware coming to you... the bots will be fighting over your router as it has a big pipe connected... :-)
<daftykins> mmm not even close to what you can get in England
<zmoylan-pi> i'm in ireland, mooching free wifi :-)
<daftykins> free!?
<zmoylan-pi> i provide tech support and they provide free internetz
<zmoylan-pi> it's a price you can't beat...
<daftykins> but that didn't extend to an AP that works reliably? 8D
<daftykins> suggestion of an AP, i should've said
<zmoylan-pi> i have replaced the ap twice... the power is twitchy and current ap is on surge protection as well
<daftykins> electricians always told me those are a scam
<zmoylan-pi> they can be. these aren't
 * daftykins squints
<knightwise> good morning
<daftykins> gm sir o/
<knightwise> hey daftykins , you up early
<daftykins> nope, late :)
<daftykins> still on baseball time despite the season being over
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, todays sun rise is 07:30 in dublin so not morning... :-)
<knightwise> ah , we are still on DST
<knightwise> 6.30 here
<knightwise> Me listening to some great synthwave mix to wake up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6x2pz6aRLU
 * zmoylan-pi watches episode of cheers...
<daftykins> who's in daylight savings?
<daftykins> i'm in GMT :D
<zmoylan-pi> america switches a week later iui
<daftykins> ja
<zmoylan-pi> *aiui
<daftykins> hrmm i thought knightwise was in England
<zmoylan-pi> but did mention been on baseball time...
<zmoylan-pi> no, wait...
<daftykins> indeed, that was meeee!
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: :) Me in .be
<knightwise> I just sound like an american :p
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> wow Deadpool composer has quit Deadpool 2 now too
<knightwise> I think you cant sequel deadpool
<daftykins> i don't think it was risquÃ© enough personally :P
<knightwise> i'm not one for superhero movies i'm afraid.
<knightwise> nearly fell asleep during antman
<zmoylan-pi> i wouldn't mind a new judge dredd movie...
<knightwise> True :) the one with stalone is getting stale
<zmoylan-pi> there is _no_ stallone dredd movie *la* *la* *la*
<knightwise> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-BefmjMFg
<knightwise> gagaga
<daftykins> i preferred the Stallone one over the newer one
<zmoylan-pi> i would have loved to see the new one on big screen... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-eI5oLlIeY
<zmoylan-pi> it was much truer to the comics
<daftykins> ah the first and last comics i read was the Beano and Dandy
<daftykins> can you even get the 'murican ones in the UK?
<zmoylan-pi> all over the place. a mate is a huge batman fan so gets a few dc comics
<daftykins> surprising!
<zmoylan-pi> well 2000ad had alan moore as a writer so it's comics were better than the others
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Hows it hanging dude :)
<brobostigon> knightwise: average, and you?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Fountain Pen Day! ð ð
 * brobostigon is brushed up and ready for a job interview at 1.
<foobarry> good luck
<brobostigon> thnk you.
<foobarry> make a good impression in the first 6 seconds
<brobostigon> try and not make my autism very obvious.
<foobarry> in my experience the success/failure of ASD people in the workplace has a lot to do with managers
<brobostigon> certainly.
<foobarry> noticed some peolpe are getting past recaptcha
<foobarry> on our pages
<brobostigon> during interview, its definatly clearer, people who are more open or not, and can tell, who i would work with better.
<foobarry> friend is hiring for this role. wants a mid level linux techy willing to learn AWS if they don't already know it http://www.argussoftware.com/careers/?p=job%2FoSjd4fwc
<foobarry> any questions i can pass them on
<brobostigon> cool, cheers.
<foobarry> nobody else seems to be onthe chan today
<brobostigon> it can be pretty quiet sometimes.
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed the interview goes well
<brobostigon> thank you, :)
 * brobostigon goes up to the nearest mirror, puts on a will smith voice and says, 'i make this look good', :)
<zmoylan-pi> tuxedo t-shirt? :-)
<brobostigon> lolz v.2
<brobostigon> dont you know, men in black, zmoylan-pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> i have it on dvd here somewhere... i know the reference... just going with a quick laugh...
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> I just have the flu and time is limited otherwise too
 * zmoylan-pi passes the lemsip and a terabyte drive of tv shows...
<diddledan> popey: the livepatch thing doesn't work for me
<popey> "doesn't work"?
<diddledan> Connection to the daemon failed: <url removed cos it has my token>: dial unix /var/snap/canonical-livepatch/15/livepatchd-priv.sock: connect: no such file or directory
<foobarry> my dog is sulking in the kids play room because he was told he couldn't lick his sore paw http://imgur.com/a/i9U5T
<diddledan> that's trying to run enable
<popey> diddledan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-livepatch-client
<zmoylan-pi> aat least no cone of shame for poor pooch
<diddledan> I ran `sudo snap install canonical-livepatch` followed by `sudo canonical-livepatch enable <my key>` which reported the error
<diddledan> I tried it on two separate systems, too
 * diddledan files bug
<popey> thanks
<popey> maybe also poke people in #ubuntu-kernel
<diddledan> #1639243
<diddledan> bug 1639243
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1639243 could not be found
<diddledan> oh?
<diddledan> bot lagging?
<Laney> private
<diddledan> aah ok
<diddledan> resolved. I had an older snapd installed
<popey> yay
<Asulil> hi all
<daftykins> \o
<Asulil> Does anyone know what is the independant and totally  neutral English newspaper?
 * daftykins walks off
<popey> Asulil: no such thing
<Asulil> popey: is it an indiscreet question?
<popey> It's an offtopic question
<Asulil> poppey: I think you're stalinist right?
<popey> You can go away now
<daftykins> ...
<Asulil> popey: you can go away yourself
<daftykins> ooh, them's fighting words
<Asulil> daftykins: our friend popey seems to be 7 or 10 years old
<daftykins> Asulil: leave now please
<Asulil> daftykins: leave what?
<daftykins> the channel...
<Asulil> daftykins: why should I leave?
<Asulil> daftykins:leave yourself
<daftykins> sigh, kids today
<Asulil> such kids here
<Asulil> unbelievable
<PaulW2U> Asulil: I directed you here as to me English = British or UK. If you are not wanting a British answer then you need to clarify by what you meant by "English". </sigh>
<Asulil> PaulW2U: I mean English language either in UK, Australia or US..etc
<Asulil> PaulW2U: is that clear now?
<PaulW2U> Asulil: Then you have probably have asked a question that can't be answered fully
<PaulW2U> Here in the UK radio and TV *have* to be independent but as popey has already said that is not true of the press who are biased towards one party or another
<PaulW2U> Obviously I can't speak for other English speaking countries ......
<Asulil> PaulW2U: I agree, I just asked a question, it's about  people's opinion
<Asulil> PaulW2U: can you gibe a name of one or two newspaper in UK?
<Asulil> *give
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom
<penguin42> popey: Whatever people think about that Mac review; Apple have just announced a major price cut on all their USB-C/thunderbolt adapters
<daftykins> XD
<penguin42> dropped the multiport adapter from $70 to $50 - so there's enough pissed off people to make them move
<zmoylan-pi> so hipsters won't need to carry dongles with them, they can just buy a new one at their destination... :-)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It surprises me they dont have beard clips for them
<zmoylan-pi> oddly i connect fold back clips to all my head set cables so that i can neatly fold the cable up and grip it with the clip.  and or clip the clip when i'm using my head set so the volume control is held in same spot on fleece
<diddledan_> moo
<zmoylan-pi> *bark*
<popey> golly
<daftykins> so who in England wouldn't mind giving a file from my home web server a test download to see how consistent + fast it is? :D
<popey> sure
<popey> give us a url
<daftykins> rightyo, i shall PM it, just some old bluetooth driver for some laptop
<popey> kk
<popey> ~1MB/s
<daftykins> i have 10Mb upload now so there should be a nice consistent 1MB/sec
<daftykins> if it dances up and down at all that might be a sign it's flaky
<daftykins> mmm neat-o, thank you sir
<popey> np
<popey> 2016-11-04 21:02:27 (1.11 MB/s) - âBluetooth_Atheros_7.2.0.60_W7x64_A.zipâ saved [110903225/110903225]
<popey> rock solid 1MB/s
<daftykins> ooh :D
<daftykins> that's great
<diddledan_> https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOh8h4qHcAqN07S/giphy.gif
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-05
<daftykins> cor, thermostat in the lounge says it's down to 16 deg C in there, almost worth giving the heating a trial run i think
<m0nkey_> OK, so I build myself a ESXI box. Now what VMs do I want?
<penguin42> FreeDOS
<daftykins> i thought it was called vSphere these days
<m0nkey_> Yeah, well vSphere then.
<daftykins> i genuinely wasn't sure if they'd kept ESXi for the free tier or something, i requested a trial of vSphere 6.5 a bit ago and got nothing, very irritating
<daftykins> even the free one i think
<m0nkey_> I just downloaded ESXI 6 and installed it.
<m0nkey_> Had to customize the installer to include Realtek NIC drivers (it's some old PC with really crappy NIC)
<daftykins> heh
<m0nkey_> Hey, it works.
<daftykins> hrmm i think i got sent around the houses on the site
<m0nkey_> You need a VMware account, but once you create it, just search for ESXI free, login and download. You'll also be given a license key to use.
<daftykins> yeah here we are
<daftykins> "Your download request has been received and is under review for download eligibility."
<daftykins> then it just says "unable to process your request, please try again later"
<m0nkey_> Weird
<m0nkey_> daftykins, while you're logged in, go here.. https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/evalcenter?p=free-esxi6
<daftykins> might be an address thing
<daftykins> yeah same error
<daftykins> on the 'license and download' tab
<m0nkey_> You can always have my key and ISO if you want
<daftykins> hmm i wonder if it phones home?
<m0nkey_> Probably, but I've re-used keys many times, they really don't give a damn for the free version
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well that'd be pretty neat if you could, sir
<daftykins> i was so disappointed when i couldn't play with server 2016's hyper-v due to a core 2 quad not supporting SLAT which it relies upon
<m0nkey_> pm?
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> watching this "Westworld (1973)" film tonight
<m0nkey_> enjoy esxi
<daftykins> :D i will! or at least try over the weekend :>
<penguin42> oh, good film
<daftykins> Crichton stuff, assuming this was also a book of his, seems to all have a similar theme!
<penguin42> the Andromeda strain is quite different
<daftykins> ah that title rings a bell
<penguin42> I could comment on that but it would give a plot trick away
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> 5am!
<zmoylan-pi> something zmoylan-pi this way comes...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> wow i can see the whole day in a single screen of scrollback :P
<zmoylan-pi> and
<zmoylan-pi> now
<zmoylan-pi> can
<zmoylan-pi> you?
<daftykins> yep!
<zmoylan-pi> fair do's i can't stand modern silly letterbox screens
<penguin42> I guess people have been busy blowing things up
<zmoylan-pi> we had our blow things up day a few days ago...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-11-06
<daftykins> oh this is only my 1920x1080 laptop
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: aren't you on some ghetto netbook with ~1024x600 ? :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brmbrmcar> hello
<brobostigon> hi brmbrmcar
<SuperEngineer> weee!  I got me that new [2nd hand] phone I wanted at long last
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> which?
<SuperEngineer> My original "I want this".  The OnePlus One
<SuperEngineer> [I know it's now counted as "old" - but I'm a luddite]  ;-)
<daftykins> if that were true, you'd be trying to buy zmoylan-pi's phone ;D
<SuperEngineer> Which part is "not true", & why should I be trying to zp's when I now have one?
<SuperEngineer> *buy zp's
<daftykins> he's nursing an old nokia if i understand rightly :>
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * SuperEngineer still has 2 old Nokias sitting on shelf [just in case].
<SuperEngineer> ...and now also has a Samsung GT-S5830i sitting on shelf :-D
<daftykins> i'm giving away all the old smartphones and phones i had lying around, no takers so far - bit shocking
<SuperEngineer> yeah, sad. just because a piece of tech is "old" doesn't mean it'e useless.
<popey> SuperEngineer: my son has my OnePlusOne
<popey> I bought a case for it from amazon, which is really nice
<popey> the OPO is a very nice phone
<SuperEngineer> hmmmm...  does mean your my daddy?
<popey> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00MJLNFR8/
<popey> not today!
<popey> 5 quid for a really good cover
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: well actually it does in the case of unsupported smartphones :(
<SuperEngineer> popey: that is a grat favour you've just me.  I was getting tired of looking for something like that on sites giving "not available" as their results.
 * SuperEngineer clicks "add to basket"
<popey> it's quite grippy
<popey> right, off to sunday lunch
<popey> o/
<daftykins> enjoy \o
 * daftykins groans at the neighbour working on his property on a sunday yet again
<SuperEngineer> have a mouthful for me.  I'm busy being a OPO case
<daftykins> i got one of those when it was new and sold it on immediately, too big for my tastes
<daftykins> back in the crazy invite-only days
<daftykins> i was just on IRC late night when some guy in a channel gave me his invite
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: you shoudn't keep putting phones in your moith!
<SuperEngineer> *mouth
<daftykins> tee-hee
<daftykins> afty penguin42 o/
<penguin42> yawnings daftykins
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> "get away from her, you..."
<zmoylan-pi> aliens...
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully the version with the autocannon
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> anyone else getting hassled to replace their meter with a smart one?
<fjaiohgae> Morning, just upgraded to 17.10, and I found a bug, but not sure what component to report it to, it's about the icons indicating unread messages from chat apps, like slack and etc , they do not refresh only just when I mouse over it
<SuperMatt> That'd be the ubuntu dock
<SuperMatt> gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> foobarry: Yup... can't be bothered though..
<diplo> Any of you guys using Draytek routers in your work place ?
<fjaiohgae> SuperMatt: Thx
<m0nkey_> Draytek? Wow, not used one of them for at least 10 years. Hard to find over here in Canada. :)
<diplo> All ours customers have them, so about 100+ of them in the network as such
<diplo> Looking at monitoring/updating/configuring via there software, having some issues with it though.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: I get the off missive about that, have simply ignored it for now. I don't see any advantage to them and they become dumb meters agains when one switches supplier. Also, how can I trust the readings?
<diplo> That was my question to the guy who came around TwistedLucidity
<TwistedLucidity> Also, security.
<TwistedLucidity> Imagine they'd been affected by Krack, Heatbleed, A.N.Other - how long (to the nearest year) would it take for updates to be rolled out?
<zmoylan-samj3> as soon as you buy the new kit :-)
<foobarry> i've been called 3 times by british gas about it
<foobarry> inthe last 2 days
<m0nkey_> foobarry: Got a smart meter here a couple years back. Electricity bill went down after it's install.
<diddledan> everyone must get one within two years iirc
<diddledan> the government is mandating it I think I read
<diddledan> oh I'm wrong. gov.uk says there's no mandate
<diddledan> "Smart meters will be rolled out as standard across the country by the end of 2020. But there is no legal obligation on individuals to have one."
<diddledan> that's from gov.uk
<SuperMatt> I suppose I could do with one for the electricity
<SuperMatt> I already have a smart meter for the shared heating system (no gas)
<foobarry> didn't they already have to change the first batch?
<foobarry> and why would bills go down?
<SuperMatt> More awareness
<diplo> I expect the reason it would go down is the readins are accurate
<SuperMatt> That too, no guessing
<diplo> My gas/electric people can't get in to read mine without me there
<diplo> And I never remember to update :)
<SuperMatt> I worry if I update, I'll be stung for a huge amount of unpaid bills
<diplo> hahah me too
<diplo> Also, they can remotely cut you off I believe, but as said earlier, it's not if, just when... suppose I'll do it at some point
<diplo> Wish I could poll the data though
<ali1234> when i try to call people using skype for linux beta, it crashes *their* skype client. lol
<diddledan> omg. grand negas Zek is on last week's Mr Robot
<diddledan> I only know by the voice
<Seeker`> wallace shawn
<m0nkey_> I can't imagine many of you use O365 Personal (I do because reasons :)) .. https://blogs.office.com/en-us/2017/10/30/premium-outlook-com-features-now-available-to-office-365-subscribers/
<zmoy-pixi> and just reading they seem to be backing away from office 365 premium service...
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/TheRichWoods/status/925071855987421185
<zmoy-pixi> microsoft getting it right. if that's not yhe proof we're living in mirror universe dystopia nothing is!!! :-P
<diddledan> I'm just going to leave this here: https://t.co/xYhs6nzNzT
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> diddledan: do you like cats? do you like TVs?
<diddledan> yes. yes.
<daftykins> https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/IqohQoaEkAA4wKC
<daftykins> now see them, combined!
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> that's the lovely new 55" LG OLED B7 for London, gave it a quick test out - the kittens however had other ideas
<diddledan> if you have netflix and a few hours free, watch the webseries "Dramaworld" it's fun
<diddledan> each episode is around 15-20 minutes
<daftykins> i can't even get myself to stop putting twitch streams on in the background and watch Stranger Things s2
<diddledan> I haven't started watching that one yet
#ubuntu-uk 2017-10-31
<diddledan> popey: did you find the secret surprise in the corebird snap yet?
<daftykins> it's not a secret NOW!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> epic young ladies are epic: https://twitter.com/zellieimani/status/924821383330361346
<daftykins> i have no idea what that's about - and now it's bed time! \o
<diddledan> it's about the hidden story of a group of black ladies who were the secret source of the moon landing - they were mathmaticians
<daftykins> ah that one
<diddledan> sauce**
<daftykins> and their office was in a VHS tape?
<diddledan> I've not actually had the chance to watch the movie yet, to my shame :-(
<daftykins> shame on you!
<daftykins> g'night sir
<diddledan> nn
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> let the shops be decked with holly fa-la-la-la la-la la-la la-la
<zmoylan-samj3> fill the air with christmas muzak....
<foobarry> forgot to do my trick with a baby wipe on the windscreens wipers :(
<foobarry> MOT place want to replace them instead
<ali1234> directhex: i don't use this, but someone might. what suite should it be now? https://github.com/ali1234/rpi-ramdisk/blob/master/raspbian/multistrap.conf#L59
<ali1234> raspbianstretch?
<directhex> yes, that repo exists & is maintained
<ali1234> cool, i will update it
<ali1234> is there a keyring package and if so what is it called?
<directhex> http://www.mono-project.com/download/alpha/#download-lin-raspbian
<ali1234> heh, that still says alpha
<directhex> keyring is not available as a package, you can have a .asc via https?
<directhex> ali1234: stable then: http://www.mono-project.com/download/#download-lin-raspbian
<ali1234> i don't think multistrap knows how to get keys on https
<directhex> manpage suggests not - set that repo to unsecure i guess
<ali1234> i think noauth is all or nothing. not sure
<ali1234> random question: you know when you log in to a board over serial and the terminal is all messed up - wrong size, arrow keys don't work etc - how do you fix that?
<zmoy-pixi> terminal emulation?
<ali1234> yes, it has something to do with terminal emulation :)
<ali1234> specifically SIGWINCH and escape codes etc
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-01
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning
<brobostigon> morning
<ali1234> bug 846776
<lubotu3> bug 831769 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #846776 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in sigc::signal_base::impl()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831769
<ali1234> debian bug 846776
<lubotu3> Debian bug 846776 in multistrap "multistrap: secure apt should not be disabled when fakeroot is used" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/846776
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning
<brobostigon> morning
<fjaiohgae> Morning, I just seen that in the the default file browser the zip/tar.gz/7z from context switch is missing the password option on the new version, does anyone has a clue why something basic like this got removed ?
<SuperMatt> I would imagine it was an upstream gnome change, rather than ubuntu
<SuperMatt> chances are it may have been removed to stop novice users zipping something and then being unable to extract it - which would be terrible for a user and user experience
<fjaiohgae> it was already a hidden option so I don't know how easy it was do use it wrong
<SuperMatt> You'd be very surprised how easily people can do something destructive by mistake
<brobostigon> like failing to press ctrl+s, and loosing hours worth of work.
<fjaiohgae> auto save is nice, but I have my git stash in cron so I don't care really :D
<czajkowski> aloha anyone coming to the RAT this weekend ?
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3629-ubuntu-uk-rat-meetup/
<Laney> ahhhh that would have been nice
<diddledan> rat-a-tat-tat
<foobarry> eww shutter has a mem leak. was using 1G RAM resident
<foobarry> i also had a vagrant VM running :(
<foobarry> firefox using 4G RAM
<zmoy-pixi> so... they are copying chrome! :-)
<diddledan> all the rams!
<zmoy-pixi> *sheep not included
<foobarry> i do have 100+ tabs
<foobarry> has anyone ever used the motor legal insurance that you typically pay Â£30 a year for on a policy?
<diddledan> 100 tabs?!
<diddledan> jeez, people, how do you have the cognition to maintain all that state in your mind?!
<diddledan> *switch to tab* what was this for? dunno, I'll just leave it in case I remember
<diddledan> I prefer just closing random stuff and not trying to remember why I left it open.
<zmoy-pixi> i have about 10 open that i access regularly and maybe another 20 of stuff i haven't read yet. when it hits 20 i kill the ones i'm not going to get to
<foobarry> i have a bunch of github repos open for PR, 10-20 tabs for what i'm curently doing, 10-20 tabs as bookamrks that i don't wanna lose..etc
<foobarry> i am usually multi tasking on about 5 projecst in a week and need them all to hand
<diddledan> you are a browser God to keep sane with all that. props to you for being awesome. I, myself, wouldn't be able to cope :-)
<foobarry> different working methods i guess
<diddledan> yeah
<foobarry> and crap bookmark support in browsers
<foobarry> i want a recent bookmarks thing really
<foobarry> i think everything i do involves 10 tabs
<diddledan> bookmarks are the wrong solution - once you add something you wanna read to bookmarks it gets forgotten about and left to bitrot
<diddledan> I kinda like the idea of "spaces" where you have groups of tabs that you set aside for later
<foobarry> google has turned me into someone who googles for the page i had rather than search bookmarks
<foobarry> bookmark management in general is sucky
<foobarry> or maybe better history management
<m0nkey_> What have I done?!?!?!
<m0nkey_> I found myself writing a Perl module!?
<diddledan> dear god man"
<diddledan> !
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-03
<diddledan> oh lordy joy: http://podstawczynski.com/retro/beauty_shots.html
<SuperMatt> morning
<zmoylan-samj3> o/
 * zmoylan-samj3 breaks the glass on emergency box and hands around the crunchies
<diddledan> ello ello
<m0nkey_> Evening all
<anton___> Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼ Ð´Ð¾Ð±ÑÐ¾Ð³Ð¾ Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼ÐµÐ½Ð¸
<daftykins> o0
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-samj3> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning gelatinous cubes
<MooDoo> howdy all
<penguin42> hey
#ubuntu-uk 2017-11-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pixi> mutter mutter sugarpuffs mutter
<brobostigon> is that gnome-shell mutated?
<zmoylan-pixi> mutter toast no marmalade
<daftykins> Rammstein breakfast edition?
<zmoylan-pixi> another data leak for the rich and shameless... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41876942
<zmoylan-pixi> the queen will have to have a good long talk with herself for avoiding her own customs and excise
