#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-30
<snap-l> Good evening
<jjesse> evening
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> So, did anyone get some major storms?
<jjesse> not major storms
<jjesse> just lots of rain
<rick_h_> little bit
<rick_h_> some nice gusts of wind that might have brought a tree/two down
<rick_h_> but nothing in my yard it looks like
<snap-l> Yeah, same here.
<snap-l> We went to my parents place because they have a basement
<snap-l> but watched as it passed north and south of us
<greg-g> a quick burst of rain down in OH during the wedding. luckily we were all under a big tent/canopy
<rick_h_> good stuff
<greg-g> snap-l: when you said that is a bug, it is a known one and you've seen it, or just "yeah, thats a bug" as in "that isn't right"
<greg-g> I have to admit, I like the fullscreen goodness in unity
<snap-l> greg-g: Believe I meant it as "that's not right"
<snap-l> I think Ohio knows if you're down there for just a day, and will unlease the wrath of God on you accordingly
<snap-l> ie: Trips to Cedar Point
<snap-l> but if you stay overnight, nothing happens.
<snap-l> Good morning, folks
<greg-g> g'morn
<brousch> rick_h_: my son had a ballon a year ago. he let go of it in a parking lot and cried as he watched it drift into the clouds. a while later he had dreams of me flying away like the balloon.
<brousch> stressful things, those balloons
<rick_h_> brousch: it's one of his favorite words, he just loves baloons
<rick_h_> figured I'd get him a treat today while at the store
<jrwren> rick_h_: my C# port is not up anywhere... I need to rewrite it. i wrote it work for hire. I'll add to my list to rewrite
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah ok. Wanted to check in case it could be shared back to Barry
<brousch> any of you hitting the a2 maker faire saturday?
<snap-l> Hadn't planned on it
<brousch> now displaying your arduino experiements?
<snap-l> Hardly. :)
<snap-l> I'm about 5 minutes from releasing the latest Open Metalcast
<brousch> you still use audacity?
<rick_h_> nope, wife's got the rest of the weekends booked this month
<rick_h_> so I'm baby bound
<brousch> bring him
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://shallowsky.com/blog/programming/arduino-cmdline.html
<brousch> can he walk?
<rick_h_> yes, he's coming up on 18mo
<rick_h_> can walk and such, but not the type of walker to be going around something like that
<brousch> let him run free. he will return to you with borg implants
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I still use Audacity.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Thanks! I'll definitely check that out
<jrwren> rick_h_: the C# impl?
<jrwren> brousch: yes, i think we are planning on maker fair.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea
<jrwren> rick_h_: Barry was the python author?
<rick_h_> yea, that was his pep
<jrwren> strollers are good for stuff like brining the boy.
<rick_h_> that's why I hit him up on twitter for the original impl
<jrwren> i imagine AA Maker FAir will be stroller friendly.
<jrwren> almost everything AA is stroller friendly.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, definitely, but not sure I'd bring him out
<jrwren> ok sweet... well, i'll write it and CC0 it and post it :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: coolio
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-05-31
<greg-g> yay CC0 :)
<rick_h_> Man, the more time passes the more irratating 90% of the content on the web gets.
<rick_h_> I'm turning into an old curmudgeon
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think you're just upset because peple don't want to think
<snap-l> they see ORM as "I don't have to write SQL", not "I can treat these things as objects"
<rick_h_> well, no, that happens in all walks of the world
<rick_h_> in jquery it's "How can I do for loops in jQuery"
<rick_h_> in PHP it's "how can I store people's sessions"
<rick_h_> they all have their users that don't understand wtf they're using/doing underneath the tool
<rick_h_> but to rant on the tool "RoR makes people stupid because they don't know how..."
<rick_h_> is what irritates me
<snap-l> It's the magicians that are irritating
<rick_h_> people shouldn't do OOP, after all, they don't understand how they're destroying the memory profile of their application when they create 50,000 instances of giant objects
<snap-l> Or rather, those who believe in true computer magic
<snap-l> magicians who know how the trick is done and know the sleight-of-hand they're performing are fine
<rick_h_> sometimes magic is ok for beginners
<snap-l> those who see the results, and then try to pull rabbits out of their baseball cap at home are irritating.
<rick_h_> once you realize your performance sucks because you're doing a loop and inside of that loop a query per iteration...you'll look for the right way to fix that
<snap-l> Reminds me of the nested for / if-then code that I saw a particular VB coder do
<snap-l> select * from table a; for i in read rows; if value = column then break; next
<snap-l> except it kept going for about 5 tables deep
<snap-l> I looked at that and said "fuck this, I'm rewriting it in Perl."
<rick_h_> yea, I always press in my SA talks that you don't get away with not knowing SQL. Sorry, just doesn't work that way
<snap-l> Since they were looking to put it on the web at some point anyway.
<rick_h_> like using jQuery doesn't mean you don't ahve to learn Javascript
<snap-l> It's like learning to use a word processor doesn't mean you don't have to know how to write.
<snap-l> or using a calculator doesn't mean you don't have to know algebra.
<snap-l> It's a tool.
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> You're always going to get that, though, especially with things that are different like SQL, Javascript, or what have you.
<snap-l> "SQL is hard, I'll use a ORM instead". "I can use jQuery to make nice widgets, so I don't have to worry about Javascript"
<snap-l> "I can just drag and drop these widgets on this frame and make a VB application"
<snap-l> There's always someone looking for a shortcut.
<snap-l> And like the man says, there's no silver bullet
<jrwren> its ok. they will write shit that scale for shit if they use an ORM that way
<snap-l> Scaling? Shit, the code's done when the compiler's run.
<snap-l> And the errors = none
<snap-l> http://music.fishbone.net/album/truth-and-soul
<snap-l> Man, if Fishbone released their stuff as CC licensed music, I'd have a musicgasm.
 * snap-l now regrets getting rid of The Reality of My Surroundings.
<snap-l> I wasn't ready.
<snap-l> http://music.fishbone.net/album/the-reality-of-my-surroundings
<rick_h_> ouch, too much yard work yesterday makes for groggy Tues
<brousch> i didn't overdo it for once. mowed front yard, rested, went to park, rested, weed whacked back yard
<brousch> no sun burn and little soreness
<greg-g> wait, rick_h_ linking to a bkuhn blog post? oh, its about power users ranting, not licenses, got it :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
<rick_h_> I know, I had to reread who it was posting that a few times
<rick_h_> but I hit that back in LTS
<rick_h_> drove me nuts that my .Xmodmap failed and had to do all kinds of crap to try to get my stuff tweaked
<greg-g> suck
<rick_h_> yea, complete. Miss my xorg.conf some days
<snap-l> Should've just used GNOME all along. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, cause that's been smooth with no transitions/changes at all
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> I haven't had any XModmap issues. :)
<snap-l> I leave my keys where God intends them. ;P
<rick_h_> yea, so sorry I care about ease of use, effeciency, and thinking for myself :)
<snap-l> wCtrl-J for escape is not efficiency. :)
<snap-l> CTRL-[ for escape is using the correct keypress. ;)
<snap-l> no xmodmap required.
<rick_h_> ctrl to caplock...xmodmap
<rick_h_> old ctrl to caps lock...xmodmap
<snap-l> ctrl to capslock = sacrilege.
<rick_h_> fixing different keyboards swapping mod4 + alt
<rick_h_> xmodmap
<rick_h_> come on, surely as a new unity fan needing consistant windows key locatino for all those fancy keyboard shortcuts you have now, you can appreciate the need to move them around
<snap-l> That's also using the GNOME keyboard tool
<rick_h_> heh, and that's the meat of it isn't it.
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/wgt/
<snap-l> ^^ works for me. ;)
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/wgt/ <- I love how this says that it's "the Sony CD-R 50 pack"
<snap-l> as if there's only one per store.
<snap-l> OK, could someone turn off the heat, please?
<_stink__> my thermostat's broken
<_stink__> the one labeled "Earth"
<snap-l> Please get someone out to fix it
<snap-l> I'm starting to consider working in the crawlspace.
<rick_h_> basement offices ftw
<snap-l> Single story homes with no AC FTL.
<rick_h_> no AC?!
<snap-l> Nope
<rick_h_> dude, my garage code is XXX
<rick_h_> head over
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> yeah, no AC at my place either, luckily the library has AC (when it works and my office isn't 80)
<snap-l> Ugh
<jrwren> got a basement?
<snap-l> jrwren: No
<jrwren> slab?
<snap-l> crawlspace.
<jrwren> UGH... thtat is the WORST!!!
<jrwren> rent or own?
<snap-l> jrwren: Thanks for validating. ;)
<snap-l> rent
<jrwren> at least you don't own that shit hole.
<Wolfger> heh
<jrwren> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTQ5Mw
<jrwren> cleancache sounds awesome
<greg-g> anyone on natty use mutt?
<brousch> i thought all mutt users were required to use a crusty old tiling window manager
<greg-g> brousch: :P
<greg-g> brousch: all mutt users are just those who appreciate a quality application that lets them get their work done faster :)
<brousch> exactly the kid of person that would use a tiling window manager
<greg-g> brousch: ok, yeah, there is some overlap ;)
<snap-l> OK, new AC unit ordered via Amazon
<snap-l> though i'm a little ticked because one unit that I was looking at got bought up before I could purchase it. :)
<snap-l> Was $179 with prime, then became $202 without Prime
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> Yeah, so I got the 5000 BTU model one step below instead of the 6000 BTU unit
<snap-l> Hmm, dad just called. Costco has a Sharp model with 8000 BTU for 179
<greg-g> ruh roh
<snap-l> canceled the Amazon order. :)
<greg-g> good, glad you still could
<snap-l> Yeah, and it's local, so if it doesn't work out, no wories shipping it back. ;)
<greg-g> this is one of the straightest lined storms I've seen in a while: http://www.wunderground.com/radar/mixedcomposite.asp?region=a4&size=2x&ID=DTX19&MR=1
<greg-g> (look now, it might not be straight if you read scrollback! :P)
<snap-l> Wow. I've seen them horizontal, but not vertical like that
<greg-g> I knew you would appreciate that. I've become a radar watcher this spring with all those storms
<snap-l> JoDee's the radar watcher. :)
<snap-l> I just happened to pick up a little along the way
<snap-l> We call her and her sister the Baker Weather Service.
<brousch> greg-g: weatherbug has a really nice radar app on android
<greg-g> hah
<brousch> so you can watch the radar from anywhere
<greg-g> brousch: ok ok, I'll get a smart phone (soon)(ish)(like later)
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> I <3 Wunderground
<brousch> so we knew exactly when to flee binder park zoo (battle creek) on sunday
<jrwren> ensemble looks intresting... we always handled it with dssh and apt-get :)
<jrwren> <3 Wunderground too
<rick_h_> greg-g: on that zed link vs github
<rick_h_> I'm failing to miss the github issue here, I mean they're missing a block feature
<rick_h_> but I'm missing how he's proved any connection that they harassed, etc?
<greg-g> the employees at github are also partaking in such juvenile jokes
<greg-g> they didn't harass him personally, and he never said they did, just that the employees at github do this exact same gag to others (but not him)
<rick_h_> where was a github employee? I saw him linking to some engine yard and says "and github employees" but all the specific people linked were engine yard I could see
<brousch> ruby sounds like a great community
<jrwren> assholes
<jrwren> i should saw... great people and a few loud assholes.
<jrwren> i can't stand the 5x5 podcast guys.
<jrwren> the snark is so thick i want to kick them.
<brousch> jrwren: violence is not the answer. mailing flaming bags of poo is
<jrwren> i'll just wait until i run into one of 'em at a conference then I'll kick 'em in the shins
<snap-l> Or bring a megaphone and yell "FUCK YOU" right behind 'em.
<jrwren> ... ooh... orchestra sounds sweet too.
<jrwren> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2011-March/005411.html
<jrwren> snap-l: yeah, last time i reallly didn't like someone because they seemed a jerk on podcasts i swore if i met 'em in IRL i'd punch 'em in the face... adn then I didn't.
<jrwren> i met him and he turned out to be pretty cool.
<snap-l> Because it's just not worth it.
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> but shin kicking... shin kicking might be doable.
<jrwren> a face slap might be good too...
<jrwren> What did the hand say to teh face?
<snap-l> Or a simple "Hi, I'm the lead developer of ... and I'd like to ask you about your remarks in episode ... "
<snap-l> because I feel they were quite unfounded, ignorant, and completely missed the mark
<Wolfger> snark-haters
<snap-l> Wolfger: cork it. :)
<snap-l> I think that's going to be my new anti-wolfger statement. ;)
<Wolfger> wolfger-hater
<snap-l> guilty as charged. ;)
<Wolfger> ouch
<snap-l> Nah, I'm just messing with you.
<Wolfger> Too late. Your words have stung me. I'm now going to leave the country.
<Wolfger> for roughly 8 days. Then I'll be back with a vengeance
<jrwren> snap-l: but that is the thing... they KNOW that they are wrong. They aren't ignorant, but they are snarky still.
<jrwren> like ENDLESSLY making fun of python whitespace significance.
<jrwren> SHIN KICK
<Wolfger> heh
<brousch> i suggest you stop listening to the podcast
<brousch> there are many others
<Wolfger> welcome to the internet. Snarkiness has been elevated to art form.
<jrwren> but they do have good info.
<jrwren> SHIN KICK
 * Wolfger makes a note to wear shin guards around jrwren
<brousch> and steel-toed boots
<brousch> so you can kick him back
<Wolfger> shin guards go better with either cleats or hockey skates....
<Wolfger> Mongolian BBQ now has "cervezaritas"? Why on earth would you pollute a good margarita with beer? Or vice versa?
<brousch> sounds ghastly
<rick_h_> http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/ ok really??!
<Blazeix> we should also get rid of the terminology "server", since that has connotations of inequality.
<Blazeix> and "web," since spider webs are icky
<rick_h_> I mean, how long before it's a crime to refer to your boss as a "slave driver"?
<rick_h_> I want to see someone personally offended due to a real connection between the term/past
<Blazeix> just wait until that person discovers hardware connectors
<rick_h_> I think we're far enough away that I doubt it's any sort of personal reaction
<Blazeix> oh, is this a site where just anyone can post anything?
<Blazeix> oh, no. I guess it does just belong to one guy
<Blazeix> ooh, just found code similar to this in one of our C# applications: http://vpaste.net/6u7dP?
<Blazeix> that's awesome :)
<Blazeix> I swapped out the conditions, mainly just the chaining of ternary operators on first class functions
<Blazeix> then providing some sort of default no-op delegate, and immediatly invoking it
<Wolfger> rick_h_: I assume he would strenuously object to renaming master/slave as "plantation owner/n*****"....
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I've heard that there's this push to remove master / slave from the vocabulary of computing
<rick_h_> I'm writing my reply
<Wolfger> why do people feel the need to imbue words with so much power? Master: that which controls. Slave: that which is controlled. It's really quite simple and (in reference to inanimate objects) innocuous.
<snap-l> because someone saw Roots, and feels it necessary to remove that stigma from their computing environment
<Wolfger> bah
<snap-l> Which is why we can no longer have a time where our hammers might be used to their fullest potential, without invoking the dreaded "Hammer Time"
<brousch> snap-l: damn you
<Wolfger> maybe we should change the terminology to mass-media-pundit/unthinking-masses
<snap-l> I mean, nobody thought about those poor hard-working millers before we took away their time, and turned it into Miller Time
<Wolfger> snap-l: can't touch this
<snap-l> Would folks prefer we use the terms Conservative / Liberal for Master / Slave?
<snap-l> Dominant / Submissive?
<rick_h_> http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/ there
<rick_h_> let it be known I'm pro-slavery (so long as it doesn't involve humans)
<Wolfger> rick_h_: speciesist!
<snap-l> I'm pro slavery, as long as it's between two consenting adults.
<Wolfger> ++
<Wolfger> and ++ on rick_h_'s comment
<brousch> but what about dolphins?
<rick_h_> enslave them...find me the landmines you #@%*-es
<snap-l> brousch: thank you for the Rob Halford dolphin image that I just conjured in my mine.
<Wolfger> they have been eslaved (enlisted) into helping the navy plant explosive charges....
<snap-l> mind, rather
<Wolfger> or find them, or something
<Wolfger> they've been enslaved, they will be again
<snap-l> I'm just getting a bit tired of the PC police finding stupid semantics wars to fight
<snap-l> When will they go to the breeders and say that they can't use the word bitch because it's offensive to female dogs?
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> that day is coming, I'm sure
<snap-l> So they'll come up with a new word, and suddenly we'll have a new battle to fight
<snap-l> Humbug, the lot of it.
<snap-l> and at the time that word was one of the 7 deadly words.
<snap-l> It's like the word retarded. Used to be a kinder way of saying idiot
<snap-l> but now it's even more offensive.
<rick_h_> right, exactly I've met mentally handicapped people that might find the term offensive
<rick_h_> I've never met a former slave
<rick_h_> any of you?
<Wolfger> we find different ways to drop the F-bomb, and that doesn't please people... they just start wanting to ban all the new alternatives
<snap-l> not to my knowledge.
<rick_h_> that's my thing, if former slaves with that mental state were reading database books...ok
<snap-l> I await the day when "shut the front door" is deemed offensive.
<rick_h_> but come on, we've reached that statute of limitatinos
<snap-l> Slave drives under IDE?
<rick_h_> door men of the world cringe at that thought snap-l
<snap-l> The problem isn't the word, it's the intent
<Wolfger> limitatinos? Is that a racial slur? ;-)
<snap-l> Which is why I have a real problem with the FCC's censorship, but that's a whole bag of worms
<brousch> you know what's kind of messed up. android has more malware than osx or linux
<Wolfger> Where do we nominate *buntu names? I want to suggest Rabid Ratel for Oneiric +3...
<Wolfger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeybadger
<brousch> Wolfger: you have to talk to mark shuttleworth in person to suggest names
<greg-g> there's a wiki page, but I doubt it is taken seriously
<Wolfger> Hey, wunderground hippies.... Have you ever tried weatherspark? http://weatherspark.com/#!graphs;a=Germany/Stuttgart
<snap-l> Not sure if JoDee has seen that.
<greg-g> I also adore weatherspark, it is info-loving goodness
<Wolfger> I like that graph view a lot.
<greg-g> but, sometimes quite wrong
<Wolfger> I hope this is one of those times....
<Wolfger> I would love for there to NOT be a 75-85% chance of rain on my only scheduled day off in Germany.
<Wolfger> and also the following 3 nights :-p
<Wolfger> At least the day my plane touches down should be good weather...
<brousch> Wolfger: watcha doin in germany?
<Wolfger> workin' for da man
<Wolfger> it's a master/slave thing ;-)
<Wolfger> machine checkouts for a "seat and guide press" machine, as part of authorization to ship.
<Wolfger> and they are not ready for me, but I am going anyways, to breath down their necks a bit. Fun stuff.
<greg-g> wow, are you bringing your SCA equipment to intimidate?
<Wolfger> Theory is, they will be ready on Monday, so I spend a partial day Thursday and all day Friday/Saturday "making sure we are ready".
<Wolfger> greg-g: I would not want the hassle of getting that stuff through the airport
<jrwren> Wolfger: you beat me to it!!
<jrwren> Wolfger: was reading the backlog adn saw the platation owner/****
 * jrwren now has Depeche Mode's Master and Servant in his head.
<Wolfger> LOL
<_stink__> jrwren++
<_stink__> same here
<Wolfger> jrwren: we are on the same page with that
<Wolfger> DM was the first thing in my head, too
<Wolfger> Hmm... IRCCloud is very nice, but is it subscription-worthy? That is the question.
<brousch> i'm trying to get my hands on a Cr-48. i think that will make irccloud much more valuable
<Wolfger> I could live with the $3/month level of service, and I'm sure I can afford $3 a month, but is it $3/month better than webchat?
<Wolfger> Oh yes, if I used my cr-48 more often, IRCCloud would definitely be the way to go
<brousch> you have one?
<Wolfger> Yes.
<brousch> bastard
<Wolfger> Yes.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrgP1u5YWEg
<snap-l> Herbie Hakcock is definitely on my list of musicians I owe a case of beer
<brousch> snap-l: i'm tired enough at 2pm. i don't need you putting me to sleep
<greg-g> does that guitarist seriously have a cheat sheet ala vim commands?
<Wolfger> Herbie Hancock++
<Wolfger> Herbie Hakcock, however, notsomuch. :-D
<snap-l> brousch: I think that's Pat Metheney
<snap-l> so God Knows what's on that guitar.
<snap-l> He's quite a gadget freak
<snap-l> 1990s era gadgets
<snap-l> The outside thermometer says 112F
<snap-l> while that's likely because it's in the sunlight, it wouldn't surprise me
<brousch> is it taped to your dryer vent?
<snap-l> dryer vent. hahahahahaha
<snap-l> #hook The PCs must persuade stubborn fruit-bearing tree-men. "There's no need to argue; pear ents just don't understand." -sjm
<brousch> interesting, esp to you freetards http://www.syncany.org/
<brousch> blah, there's no release yet
<jjesse> is that the new thing that matt zimmermen went to?
<greg-g> no, that's http://www.singly.com/
<jjesse> well that's not confusing
<greg-g> heh, it's hard to come up with good catchy names nowadays
<snap-l> CPU Temperature:   +49.0Â°C  (high = +65.0Â°C, crit = +95.0Â°C)
<snap-l> MB Temperature:    +61.0Â°C  (high = +45.0Â°C, crit = +95.0Â°C)
<snap-l> I'm meeeeelting
<brousch> Catchly: my new cloud service for generating catchy names
<snap-l> brassuns.com -< My new could data store service
<snap-l> gives you 5 minute warnings before your data is lost, or your money back
<snap-l> (but not your data)
<brousch> could data store, how fitting
<brousch> could be there, could be not there
<snap-l> shroedinger's data store
<snap-l> We cannot ascertain without observing the data whether the data is your data, or someone else's data
<snap-l> or is in fact garbage data.
<greg-g> but, right now you have a 1 in 3 chance it is, in fact, your correct data. Do you want us to observe it and take that 1 in 3 chance?
<snap-l> Actually, we only give tech journalists the service that works
<snap-l> everyone else will get garbage.
<snap-l> ie: Scoble gets good data
<snap-l> Severe Thunderstorm Watch
<greg-g> you said journalists
<snap-l> Well, digierati
<greg-g> ok
<jrwren> why isn't apache configured for Expires headers by default?
<snap-l> http://www.techradar.com/news/software/free-software-is-facing-a-monumental-test-959108
<snap-l> Qt is deprecated. ;)
<snap-l> Man, I wish there was upvoting on certain blogs
<snap-l> http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/master-slave/#comment-769376392170df262c1090ef7a9e2205
<snap-l> This is 100% awesome
<krondor> Snap-l:  like Google +1d?
<krondor> Didn't the city of la require hard drives for government use to go with primary secondary
<krondor> Because of the slave thing?
<krondor> Yeah it did http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/master.asp
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-01
<jammcq> greg-g: ping
<greg-g> jammcq: pong
<jammcq> hey
<jammcq> sitting here with Craig and other mug guys.
<snap-l> Hey jammcq :)
<jammcq> we're putting some info on the mug website for the june 14th meeting
<jammcq> hey snap-l
<jammcq> take a peek at http://www.mug.org
<jammcq> i'd like to add more if you have anything to add
<greg-g> jammcq: looks good so far, I don't have much more. Could you link "Michigan Ubuntu Loco" to http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan
<jammcq> yep
<greg-g> I'm emailing the list once more to call for participation
<jammcq> greg-g: ok, link is working
<greg-g> awesome, thanks
<greg-g> (sent the email to the list)
<rick_h_> thanks greg-g, that was on my todo
<greg-g> yeah, mine too, but I hadn't been using my todo manager for a while and I honestly kind of forgot about it
<rick_h_> yea, meant to catch it this weekend, but you see how well that went
<snap-l> Maybe I should do a short presentation on using todo.sh. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<tjagoda> Kyarrr
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> brousch: you submitting a talk to PyOhio?
<rick_h_> you should :P
<snap-l> Stupid computer locked up last night, which is why I wasn't on overnight
<greg-g> lame
<rick_h_> well crap, now you missed all the afk excitement
<snap-l> Yeah, I figured as much
<brousch> rick_h_: i wish i had something
<snap-l> The parade of AFK
<greg-g> stupid unity wouldn't work with dual screens this morning when I got to work, had to restart X
<snap-l> Ugh
<rick_h_> brousch: oh come on, no cool GAE, flask, django goodness to chat about for 30min?
<brousch> gae and django have annoyed me too much
<rick_h_> well, happy to see I'm not the only one :)
<brousch> i could talk about how the complexity of django and the limitations of gae have driven me to flask and amazon ;)
<rick_h_> think about it, not all good talks are "yay here's how this saved my life" talks
<rick_h_> some of the best are "lessons learned form xxx" stuff
<brousch> i have 2 days?
<rick_h_> to submit it
<brousch> the hardest part about that talk would be exposing my ignorance
<rick_h_> not to write it
<rick_h_> brousch: then a good way to approach it would be that route
<rick_h_> "django and GAE, how I failed my tools" or something
<snap-l> brousch: No better way to learn than to give a talk about it
<rick_h_> make some great open space material afterwards
<snap-l> Django and GAE: It should have worked.
<brousch> for everything!
<rick_h_> hah!
<snap-l> Django and GAE: Why I'm using Flask and Amazon EC2
<brousch> nice
<brousch> i think i could make it work
<snap-l> "I come not to praise Django and GAE, but to bury them"
<brousch> the talk, not the django and gae
<brousch> i will strongly consider this
<brousch> now you've got my subconscious working on it. dangit you two
<snap-l> You're welcome. :)
<greg-g> well done guys :)
 * brousch opens up a new evernote note
<rick_h_> bwuhaha, my work is done
<brousch> hopefully they will put me against rick_h_ and no one will attend ;)
<rick_h_> hah, I'll get to come and yell "Amen!" from the back while the django lovers get confused looks on their faces
<brousch> there wasn't a lot of django there last year
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> it needs some more good material for sure
<snap-l> Yay, morning conference calls.
<rick_h_> wheee
<rick_h_> this is crazy: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/06/criticism-and-takedown-how-review-sites-can-defend-free-speech.ars
<rick_h_> I'm really thinking I need to find a time machine
<rick_h_> I can't believe the crap going down these days
<tjagoda> Lets all go back to 1955
<tjagoda> When life was simple, and we only had to worry about the commie bastard russians.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Unfortunately a lot of misconceptions are coming to roost.
<snap-l> the idea that you can control how people perceive you, and that ideas are property.
<rick_h_> snap-l: this with the whole "by signing up for ATT you agree you can never class action lawsuit us.."
<rick_h_> all the legalese to try to protect one's branch is just getting crazy
<rick_h_> what happened to just not pissing off the customer?
<_stink_> too expensive.
<rick_h_> I guess :/
<tjagoda> Our world is broken
<tjagoda> Somebody please figure out how to fix it/restore liberty as an American value?
<snap-l> forget liberty, I want the right to bitch
<rick_h_> ok seriously? opendns can't find stackoverflow?
<snap-l> actually, don't forget libery. ;)
<rick_h_> StackOverflow.RegEasyPro.com
<rick_h_> yea, that's what I wanted
<rick_h_> wtf opendns
<snap-l> Ugh, that sucks
<rick_h_> if our CHC caribout gets this crap setup I think it'll be time to find a new location
<snap-l> That's partially why I use Google DNS
<rick_h_> caribou that is
<rick_h_> well it's at the router here :/
<snap-l> Where are you at? Caribou by you?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> they've got this new wireless setup with the "login" gateway, etc
<snap-l> Royal Oak has it as well
<snap-l> I think it's a good sign that the Madison Heights one DOESN'T have it
<rick_h_> I was checking out the verizon 4g mifi rentals scene last night
<rick_h_> makes me want to skip rental and get one :)
<snap-l> orly? :)
<rick_h_> yea, was thinking might be  better off just renting for pyohio/olf, etc
<rick_h_> easier to get the wifely approval than a 2yr contract
<snap-l> Yeah, I can imagine
<snap-l> If I went to more conferences, I could see purchasing one.
<rick_h_> yea, I'd love one right now
<snap-l> Well, I could see it anyway, but it's a little harder to justify.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Don't you have a machine you could tunnel to at home?
<snap-l> That's how I get around a lot of the crap wifi stuff
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, just haven't bothered setting up
<rick_h_> I don't come up here very often
<snap-l> Not that much effort to set up
<snap-l> just have a SSH tunnel, and you're golden.
<rick_h_> bah, no 4g where we're heading in june
<rick_h_> there goes the desire to get one this month
<brousch> rick_h_: how much is a mifi and what's the data cap?
<rick_h_> brousch: one place I saw was 1wk rental with 2gb cap for $149
<rick_h_> and then it was another $20 for another 2gb
<rick_h_> if I go month to month the mifi costs me $249 + $50-80/mo for data
<brousch> ouch
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> and if I go contract then it's $50/mo data + $99 for the mifi
<rick_h_> but the 50 is more 60 after taxes, etc
<rick_h_> but I do get an 8% discount with verizon through work
<rick_h_> but not a big diff
<jrwren> opendns sucks.
<jrwren> run your own, or use google :)
<jrwren> or run your own and use google as the forwarder :)
<rick_h_> I had to figure out how to tweak dhclient config to prepend with google dns
<rick_h_> much better now
<rick_h_> only thing now is that dhclient refreshes and wipes my dns added for the vpn conneciton
<brousch> cron job to fix it every minute ;)
<tjagoda> Yaaay
<tjagoda> new interwebz
<snap-l> w00t
<brousch> lookit dem toobz!
<snap-l> I swear, whenever it comes to scheduling family events, I blow it no matter what
<snap-l> But then JoDee gets upset when I don't want to schedule anything
<brousch> Doodle
<snap-l> No amount of technology can fix the underlying problem.
<snap-l> which is that she doesn't want to do it in the first place. :)
<snap-l> and that my mom generally is hell-bent on doing something
<snap-l> It's one of those areas that men cannot win
<jrwren> i just give up and do wahtever my wife tells me.
<jrwren> the only way to win, is not to play
<snap-l> Who is John S. Gruber?
<jrwren> blogger?
<snap-l> Apparently he's maintaining the Lernd package, acc. to Jono's latest blog post
<snap-l> No, not John Gruber
<snap-l> https://launchpad.net/~jsjgruber
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> lernd?
<rick_h_> the python snippet tool
<snap-l> lernid.
<jrwren> lernid?
<rick_h_> oh sorry, wrong tool
<rick_h_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid
<snap-l> Apparently he's also a MUG member, or at least I saw his name last night at the MUG meeting
<rick_h_> jono did that quickly app that was part irc, part slideshow viewer, part something
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> Wondering if he's active in the Loco, and if we could get him to talk about it at the next MUG meeting
<jrwren> no link to a project page :( http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/lernid/natty/view/head:/debian/control
<jcastro> he's a local
<jcastro> he comes to the ann arborish events
<snap-l> Ah, OK.
<greg-g> what the flip, did no one use mutt with large maildir folders during the dev of natty? I keep getting stupid errors (I'll dig up the bug I found yesterday in a bit)
<rick_h_> uh oh :/
<greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutt/+bug/723221
<greg-g> fixed in debian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=620854
<rick_h_> ah, suck
<rick_h_> guess I don't use -patched anyway though
<rick_h_> so no sidebar issues
 * greg-g likes his sidebars to know if anything needs his attention in lesser used mailboxes
<rick_h_> yea, when offlineimap updates I get the list in the bottom of my window
<rick_h_> and hitting . will list dirs with new files
<greg-g> huh, hadn't used that beore "."
<greg-g> but, i'm bad and keep some messages in folders marked as unread to get back to later, so it fills up the bottom of my screen (ie: isn't totally useful)
<rick_h_> yea, use that all the time
<rick_h_> yea, I use that with a shortcut nn to mark all as read to hit mailing lists every so often
<rick_h_> plus when you hit c (and nothing else) it'll defautl to a folder with unread
<rick_h_> so I find myself, every so often, doing a c<enter>
<rick_h_> read, read, nn
<rick_h_> c<enter>
<rick_h_> but I also have shortcuts to the main folders for each accounts
<rick_h_> gm (go to mitechie inbox)
<rick_h_> gp (go to morpace inbox)
<rick_h_> gs (go to morpace support folder for tickets)
<greg-g> right right, I have z1, z2, z3 as my 3 inboxes
<rick_h_> yea, so I only use . when I'm looking for extra stuff to catch up on anyway
<greg-g> huh, and c, never used that either. i can see how these are useful without the sidebar
<snap-l> Anyone know how to encode a character in Python as unicode?
<jrwren> use 3.x ?
<rick_h_> unicode(str)
<rick_h_> has to be encoded in something known up front though
<rick_h_> so depends on what you're doing
<snap-l> Trying to send over Chinese characters. ;)
<rick_h_> what's the source of the text?
<rick_h_> if it's a file you need to make sure you're doing something like codecs.open() or that the file is utf8/etc to start
<rick_h_> I just got through doing all this chinese fun
<snap-l> I just want to send over a simple string
<snap-l> but I'm having a bitch of a time encoding it
<rick_h_> so you're copying/pasting the text into your script?
<rick_h_> the chinese character string?
<snap-l> Tried that first, then tried escaping it
<rick_h_> so if you're creating a string of unicode characters you have to u'something'
<snap-l> Even if there's some page that could simply tell me what to do, I'd love that.
<rick_h_> the u says this isn't a normal string, but a unicode version
<snap-l> I've tried that, and it seems to get botched up
<rick_h_> it's scattered all over the map unfortunately. It all depends on where the data is coming from, going to, etc
<snap-l> blergh
<rick_h_> have your script up on pastebin?
<snap-l> no, not right ow
<rick_h_> if you want can take a peek, also CHC if you want
<rick_h_> but basically have to trace the text from the whole script lifecycle tracking what 'format' it's in each step of the way
<snap-l> problem is I'm not sure if the fault is with my script or with the system that I'm using
<rick_h_> right
<snap-l> Holy shit, now it's working.
<rick_h_> coolio
<snap-l> some days I really hate computers. :)
<snap-l> Even better, I need to do some investigation on UTF-16
<brousch> unicode is a bitch
<brousch> makes me want to punch babies
<rick_h_> yea, and UTF-16LE and more and more
<snap-l> English is good enough for God, so it should be good enough for everyone else.
<snap-l> (I love how ignorant that statement is)
<_stink_> will you CC license that so i can put it on my business card?
<snap-l> _stink_: Author unknown
<_stink_> sounds like you are encouraging copyright infringement
<snap-l> It's attributed to a bunch of folks
<snap-l> Wow, OpenOffice is now an Apache project
<snap-l> I have a feeling the only folks that will be investing in OO.o and not Libreoffice are IBM.
<jrwren> they will probably merge back together now that sunoracle is gone
<rick_h_> I have dir sample/testdir/filesx..
<rick_h_> and I want to create a tar of only testdir/filesxxx
<rick_h_> without the sample?
<rick_h_> any hints on how to flag that in tar czf?
<jrwren> chdir before you tar :)
<rick_h_> yea, but then the file is in the spot I don't want, etc.
<jrwren> or invoke tar with -C
<rick_h_> oh well, just making sure I wasn't missing something everyone else knew
<rick_h_> I tried that but kept getting an archive called C
<jrwren> tar -C sample -czf output testdir/filesxxx
<jrwren> or
<_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf sample/testdir/{something}'?
<jrwren> err... no or.
<_stink_> er
<_stink_> you know
<rick_h_> bah, that works
<_stink_> can't just do 'tar cvzf blah.tar.gz sample/testdir/{something}'?
<jrwren> yeah, what _stink_ asys too?
<rick_h_> when I do that, the archive contains an outer dir sample
<jrwren> err.. right.
<_stink_> oh i see
<rick_h_> when I extract, I don't want sample as part of the result
<_stink_> sorry, right
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> gotcha now
<rick_h_> I think the -C is working
<rick_h_> I wasn't using a - flag on my czf
<rick_h_> I think that confused it
<rick_h_> tar czf vs tar -czf
<snap-l> You can also rsync the files to a tmp directory, and then tar them. ;)
<rick_h_> well I am writing a python script, might as well tar = TarFile();tar.add(sample/blah/blah.py) one by one :P
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> I wish Google Voice had the ability to discern if callers are going to leave a voice mail
<snap-l> and if not, then it doesn't ring my phone at all.
<rick_h_> mind reading, that's a good feature
<snap-l> I'd pay an extra $1 for that
<greg-g> just build into g-voice whatever it was that was built into the elevators in H2G2
<jrwren> rolf @ the rsync
<jrwren> Down is nice too.
<snap-l> jrwren: Don't tell me you've never done that. ;)
<jrwren> i don't actually recall doing it... but you are right, i probably have.
<rick_h_> umm really?! http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/01/twitter-photos-search/
<Blazeix> photobucket? they're still around?
<rick_h_> no kidding
<brousch> are you kidding me? I just bought a Cr-48 at lunch and now google sends me an invite to a pre-sale for the new google chromebook
<rick_h_> brought?
<rick_h_> bought?
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> off a guy that didn't want it
<rick_h_> I didn't know they sold any
<brousch> technically not supposed to sell them
<rick_h_> oh, well come on man, they annouced back at google io they were going to have new dual core models coming in June
<brousch> yeah, but it's not supposed to be for 2 weeks
<rick_h_> so you're mad you got an email 2wk ahead of launch you knew was coming?
<brousch> if it had come 4 hours ago i might not have bought the cr-48
<brousch> ah well, the samsung chromebook is $500
<brousch> more than i want to spend right now
<rick_h_> yea, they're both over $400
<brousch> this is not an announcement of the june 15 launch, this is an invite to an early release sale, so i could buy it now
<rick_h_> you should have told me you wanted to buy one :P
<rick_h_> ah, interesting
<brousch> i may want more ;)
<brousch> i have a feeling my son will take over this one
<rick_h_> yea, I just moved mine out of the way again
<rick_h_> just nothing over my laptop so I don't use it much
<rick_h_> but still like it so don't get rid of it
<brousch> i'm excited about it. i think it will be great for tech-impared parents and grandparents
<rick_h_> yea, my uncle uses it when he comes over
<brousch> i thought these things were supposed to be super cheap
<rick_h_> heh, well they have 3g, more storage, dual cores, people want nice hardware
<rick_h_> I mean, think about how much that cell phone of yours costs, and that's a smaller display
<brousch> $99
<rick_h_> oh right...hahahahahahahahahaha
<rick_h_> I'll let google know to start sending you an $80/mo bill right away
<brousch> i think they have the same storage and ram as the cr-48
<rick_h_> I think they were supposed to have a little more storage since they support pluggin in sdcards and such for loading photos
<rick_h_> plus the sdcard slot, the support for the usb cameras/etc
<brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook
<rick_h_> gotcha
<jrwren> why buya  chrome book?
<jrwren> you can just download a chromeOS build adn run it on your laptop.
<brousch> i did that. it was an annoying layer on suse
<jrwren> oh, it was suse? I didn't notice that when i watched it boot :)
<brousch> opensuse
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/Screen%20shot%202011-06-01%20at%203.15.18%20PM.png
<rick_h_> heh, only selling the 3g model eh
<brousch> i guess
<rick_h_> the 3g is cool, 100mb in a crisis is some worthy bandwidth for free
<brousch> true
<brousch> GR just had its verizon 4g turned on today
<rick_h_> yea, we've got it out here so I'm itching whenever I hit crappy wifi out there
<rick_h_> but I spent 2yr on an ATT contract with a pcmcia modem
<rick_h_> ugh for another contract
<rick_h_> ok brousch hit you up to the pyohio crew so you get a bonus point
<rick_h_> now you HAVE to submit :P
<brousch> yeah, i put it out there so i'd feel more guilt if i didn't follow through ;)
<jrwren> this is sweet http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette
<brousch> jrwren: that is pretty cool
<jrwren> its kinda nuts that it disassembles and reassembles
<brousch> Is it? I have no idea
<jrwren> well, think about it.
<jrwren> lets take native x86 or x64 code, turn it back into asm, diff that, ship that, then let the cilent turn the asm back into x86 or x64
<jrwren> that is practically like recompiling on teh client side.
<jrwren> it means they ship an assembler as part of the diff program AFAICT
<snap-l> I can't believe they're selling these at $400 a pop
<snap-l> Pretty crippled machines, if you ask me.
<snap-l> (the chrome laptops)
<brousch> $500
<brousch> the asus will be $400, but they have smaller screens
<snap-l> Even worse
<brousch> supposedly you can install linux ;)
<snap-l> I can do that on just about any machine
<snap-l> $199 would have been my limit for buying a chrome book
<snap-l> but $500 is too expensive for a crippled machine
<brousch> yeah, this thing would have to rock to spend $500 on it
<brousch> i was expecting a $200 price point
<rick_h_> really? I mean for $200 you can't get a ton of electronic gear
<rick_h_> I mean, an LCD tv is 300/400
<_stink_> i think it has more to do with the cost for a bottom of the line laptop.
<_stink_> like what, $400?
<_stink_> for a normal laptop?
<rick_h_> I mean the ereaders are barely at that price point
<_stink_> but bottom of the line?
<rick_h_> yea, but these are better hardware than bottom of the line
<rick_h_> and that price point is with 3g and subsidized 100mb/mo of 3g service
<rick_h_> to expect a laptop, running flash, with cpu, memory, radios, etc for $200 is nuts
<rick_h_> this thing is a laptop, it's only the OS that's different. Sure, a smaller hard drive, but still just a low end laptop
<brousch> but these are supposed to be disposable
<brousch> $500 is not disposable
<rick_h_> that cell phone is $500 and people treat those as disposable
<rick_h_> how many lost/etc smart phones per year
<jjesse> i was suprised by cost as well
<jjesse> do they come w/ cell contract or something to keep you always connected?
<brousch> no one pays $500, they pay $99 and then the rest is rolled into the monthly bill
<rick_h_> right, these come sans monthly bill, you're welcome
<brousch> and i don't know anyone that treats a smartphone as disposable
<rick_h_> that doesn't negate the fact that if you lose your smartphone, you're not getting a second for $99
<rick_h_> I just mean that people lose/drop them and go buy another
<rick_h_> that's disposable
<rick_h_> they give $500 iphones to their 11yr olds
<rick_h_> that's disposable
<brousch> for $500 i can get an ipad2. why would i choose a bulky chromebook?
<rick_h_> bulky? you mean a 12" little machine with a full sized keyboard?
<_stink_> for the OS, i guess
<rick_h_> because you want to plug in a camera and upload photos
<brousch> the OS is a stripped-down linux with a web browser
<rick_h_> that's why
<_stink_> i think i had a preconception that chromeos would be shipped on total piece of shit, cheap hardware.
<rick_h_> because you want to hook up a webcam and do a conference call
<rick_h_> no, they're trying to sell these to school's/businesses
<brousch> ipads have cameras now :P
<rick_h_> they can't be crap hardware that dies every 6mo
<_stink_> if it's targeted to businesses, then i can see $500 as a reasonable price
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, yes they have a camera that's hailed across the tablet verse as "crap" and that's the nicer backside one
<brousch> _stink_: i agree. i had the impression of a netbook-like hardware for cheap
<brousch> maybe it will get to that point
<rick_h_> that's exacltyh why they've never said "netbook" in any accouncement/press release
<brousch> these are the first few models
<rick_h_> they've always said notebook, always been at least 12"
<rick_h_> the thing is the same size as my x201, but 1/4 the price
<brousch> the asus is 11.6" :P
<rick_h_> whatever, got me there
<brousch> don't get me wrong, i want it to succeed
<brousch> which is why i'd like to see it for cheaper
<rick_h_> I don't want crap hardware. The touchpad and screen on this cr-48 leave a lot to be desired
<rick_h_> if people are going to use this thing, travel with it, etc it needs to hold up to use better than a $500 toshiba laptop crap machine
<brousch> 1280x800 at 12" is better resolution than my mbp
<rick_h_> apple puts crap displays on their laptops
<rick_h_> I go nuts whenever I think about peeking at them
<jrwren> not to mention its basically useless offline, right?
<jrwren> I mean, how many chrome apps do offline mode?
<rick_h_> jrwren: but with 3g built in, that's rarer
<jrwren> if you are urban, sure.
<rick_h_> and they announced this June/july most of the google apps would get offline mode
<brousch> well it has a 16GB SSD and SD slot, so it must have some offline capabilities
<jrwren> but what if you are country folk?
<rick_h_> not for everyone
<rick_h_> I'm not arguing that, but for schools/businesses with wifi, mobile workforce using web based CRM packages, etc
<jrwren> yeah, a giant browser cache and space for html5 -data :)
<rick_h_> they're not bad machines, more solid than a cheap laptop at that point
<jrwren> oh sure, it has some great use cases.
<brousch> my dad and wife's parents are in the boondocks and they get verizon signal. i think connectivity is becoming less of a problem
<jrwren> 3G ?
<rick_h_> my aunt in VA has no signal to any carrier
<brousch> sometimes
<rick_h_> I mean no signal, not normal, edge, or 4g
<rick_h_> 3g
<jrwren> I can drive through town and story is same for ATT & VZ... 3G, E, no coverage, 3G E, no coverage :)
<rick_h_> so there are places, but I think that's a minority of the market
<jrwren> yeah, down my street there is a no signal zone :)
<jrwren> i was on MSFT campus and there was a dead hallway with no signal!!!
<brousch> if these things get down to $200, i can maybe put them in the shop
<brousch> they won't last a year out there, but maybe at that price it's worth it
<rick_h_> for a business you get in bed with the monthly sub program
<rick_h_> then you get replacements, etc
<rick_h_> thing dies, get a new one sent to you
<brousch> that could work
<jrwren> i think it might be good for old laptops.
<jrwren> because ubuntu doesn't run on old laptops... maybe chromos will :)
<rick_h_> right now it doesn't run on intel does it?
<rick_h_> natively?
<brousch> and it really makes my web-based version of our internal software look much more valuable
<jrwren> there are 3rd party builds.
<jrwren> i don't think the google builds are exactly open source.
<jrwren> its more like the android model.
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> brousch: oh definitely, things like quickbooks online and such make a TON more sense in this model
<rick_h_> especially because these things are so locked down, leaking your .qbk file or whatnot is much much harder if not near impossible
<jrwren> tablets have made web based internal apps a *good thing*  too
<rick_h_> yea, but many of those business apps really require a keyboard
<brousch> well, quickbooks specifically will not be replaced, but our access/foxpro systems will be
<rick_h_> I look at all the data entry my wife does in her medical mgt software
<rick_h_> they talk about ipad versions, but man, that would just suck
<jrwren> yeah, that would suck BIG TIME
<rick_h_> I think a lot of the use cases, insurance adjusters, etc fall under that same model
<rick_h_> but yea, as PoS stuff, an ipad would rock
<rick_h_> the square solution for that is so interesting
<brousch> square?
<rick_h_> give one to a few employees roaming the store helping employees and ditch the old idea of the checkout line
<jrwren> i think you are very right.
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/03/square-ipad/
<jrwren> prior to that apple store employees actually used Windows CE 6.x devices to check you out!!!
<rick_h_> not saying it'd work everywhere, but would make for some interesting tests/themes out there
<brousch> ah, the comic book store had me use that a month or so ago
<rick_h_> yea, it's pretty interesting. Penguicon used one of their readers for doing CC payments this year
<rick_h_> ok, time to go finish up and get the boy. How much time left before CHC?!
<brousch> speaking of 4g, one of the windows guys reports: Using speediest on thunderbolt, 25.42 down, 1.47 up
<brousch> speedtest i think he means
<jrwren> CHC??? ppfff... I'm speaking at AACS tonight!  Come hear that!
<brousch> whowha?
<snap-l> I <3 my wife
<snap-l> she brings home some neat toys
<snap-l> This is an old  SUn Ray terminal that doesn't appear to have anything to talk do
<snap-l> to, rather
<brousch_> am i here now?
<brousch_> ok, the cr-48 is nice!
<brousch_> excellent touchpad. rick_h_ i don't know what you're complaining about
<brousch_> not quite MBP quality, but better than most other PC touchpads
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-02
<greg-g> man, so much discussion I missed today during work :)
<brousch_> stop working so hard
<greg-g> brousch_: sorry, I'll work harder on... dangit!
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> poor greg-g can't win
<snap-l> heh
<brousch_> anyone want an irccloud invite?
<snap-l> I'm good, thanks.
<brousch_> d00d. it's irc
<brousch_> in
<brousch_> the
<brousch_> cloud
<snap-l> still good. ;)
<greg-g> I've got irc in my personal cloud
<brousch_> wrong. it's not the cloud unless it's html5
<rick_h_> irc + html == fail
<brousch_> it's really pretty good
<brousch_> what did you use for irc on the cr-48?
<brousch_> oh, apparently catherine devlin was lurking on the grpug email list. she saw me mention a presentation and now i'm really on the hook
<jjesse_> whose catherine devlin?
 * jjesse_ is stupid
<brousch_> jjesse: organizer of pyohio
<rick_h_> She's come out and given some talks in A2 and such as well
<rick_h_> OLF fan
<greg-g> yeah, good gal
<brousch_> ok, my goal is a blog post and pyohio proposal tonight
<brousch_> quit distracting me
<rick_h_> widox: http://uploads.mitechie.com/index.html
<rick_h_> http://unserializableone.blogspot.com/2007/09/simple-directory-browser-for-amazon-s3.html
<rick_h_> https://gist.github.com/1003755
<jrwren> snap-l: there is linux sunray server stuff.  you get it rollin yet?
<brousch_> hm, hit my first snag with chromeos. how to edit a rst file?
<jrwren> vim?
<jrwren> nano?
<jrwren> joe?
<brousch_> it's a web browser
<brousch_> no java
<brousch_> no shell
<brousch_> ah, sent it to dropbox and then i can edit it in sourcekit
<jrwren> surely you can get a shell?
<brousch_> i don't think so
<brousch_> ok, found a shell
<brousch_> no nano or vi though
<_stink_> sed?
<brousch_> it has ssh, so you can edit stuff on remote servers
<brousch_> which is consistent with the chromeos philosophy
<brousch_> i'll have to make a little file dump on dreamhost where i can plop things and then ssh to edit them with vim
<brousch_> oh, nice. i can make windows and switch between them using alt+1 - alt+0. this means i can organize pretty much how i do in osx and linux
<brousch_> ctrl+1 - ctrl+0 switches between tabs in the current window
<snap-l> jrwren: Not yet.
<snap-l> I gave it about 15 minutes of fiddling
<snap-l> But yeah, I think I'll set up pa VM and get the oracle server running
<rick_h_> brousch_: src:kit app is great
<rick_h_> ah, nvm you found it as a catch up
<brousch_> quite nice
<snap-l> brousch_: The shell / terminal that ships wth ChromeOS is pretty rough
<brousch_> and uses dropbox, so all the docs are synced to my desktop/laptop
<rick_h_> you can unlock it and get access to a better terminal and even some better ssh
<snap-l> Part of the reason I couldn't deal with it.
<rick_h_> brousch_: yea, I used src:kit for doing notes at pycon
<rick_h_> create rst files, and then when I went to do my podcast, they were on my main laptop
<rick_h_> supposedly it's gotten better, I saw a commit that it supports ssh keys now
<brousch_> ok, well i got the blog post out and half of the pyohio proposal typed up. i'm calling it a night
<rick_h_> awesome
<rick_h_> let me know if you need a hand with the pyohio stuff at all
<brousch_> it seems pretty easy
<rick_h_> I'm out myself, night
<brousch_> nedd to sleep on the extended description and outline
<snap-l> rick_h_: orly?
<snap-l> That was a big bugaboo for me
<snap-l> OK, off to do some dishes. Laterness, everyone!
<rick_h_> I'm going to citizen's arrest you all for sharing pandora account passwords: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/06/02/0342220/Tennessee-Makes-it-Illegal-To-Share-Your-Netflix-Password
<rick_h_> snap-l: watched the win8 video...it has tiling! lol
<greg-g> :P
<brousch> finally, a mainstream window manager for rick_h_!
<brousch> meating, bbl
<greg-g> I find it interesting how my right click menu in gnome-terminal is unavailable when firefox locks up
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, heard that password sharing thing on NPR last night. That's just dumb.
<greg-g> jcastro: way to speak the truth in that newsletter blogpost
<snap-l> rick_h_: That Windows 8 video goes against everything I've ever loved about the desktop interface
<snap-l> I think the best metaphor is the cluttered board behind the screen.
<snap-l> It's too cluttered.
<rick_h_> come on, we all knew the start menu would need a breakout box at some point
<rick_h_> not like windows is going to launcher style
<snap-l> The computer now looks like the fucking weather channel
<snap-l> It also looks grafted
<ColonelPanic001> it amuses me that I frequently, daily, hear a word processor in this office
<greg-g> what is it saying?
<ColonelPanic001> beep beep beep beep
<_stink_> yeah, we should publicly shame whoever uses it
<ColonelPanic001> or should
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/06/01/open-metalcast-special-announcement/
<snap-l> Yay, getting Internet Explorer 8 on my machine
<snap-l> along with a warning that not all company applications are compatible with INternet Explorer 8
<snap-l> At least someone is trying to rip the band-aid off.
<rick_h_> IE8? Haven't you heard...that's old
<rick_h_> <3'd that Google is deprecating IE7 on google apps
<snap-l> Hey, at least someone is trying to get us out of this mess.
<brousch> i had no idea there was a weekly ubuntu newsletter
<krondor> firesheep for android http://faceniff.ponury.net/
<snap-l> brousch_: Yeah, it's been kicking for a while now
<PainBank> anyone try out the Meego distro?
<Blazeix> I tried it out a few months ago. it's pretty slick
<PainBank> what hardware?
<Blazeix> eee pc s101
<Blazeix> atom cpu
<PainBank> cool, thanks.  easy to install?
<Blazeix> yeah, very easy. they provide a usb stick image.
<PainBank> i'm at IESF - a 1 day conf hosted by Mentor Graphics and there is a bit of talk about Linux in the future in vehicles.
<PainBank> GENIVI.org seems to be a user group focused on this.
<snap-l> Apparently Borders is moving all of their eBooks over to Kobo
<snap-l> The confusion between the two must've been way too much
<rick_h_> from what?
<rick_h_> what was the other reader? sony?
<snap-l> Borders had their own storefront
<rick_h_> oic
<snap-l> and the readers sold by Borders went to that storefront
<rick_h_> that's a good thing for kobo
<snap-l> they're sending an update which will likely send that over to Kobo now
<rick_h_> their new reader is getting rave reviews, but the store side is still something that holds me back from one of them
<snap-l> Well, it's pretty stupid to have two separate apps
<snap-l> Esp if you use the iPhone app
<snap-l> We'll see how this works
<snap-l> They already had me merge my library
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> which means I have access to the one book that I bought from Kobo as an experiment with the Sony
<snap-l> I'm one of their best eBook customers, though, even though I bought only two eBooks from the Borders store. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> One stross book (just to see how it worked) and JoDee bought a Dr. Who book.
<snap-l> Sorry, Doctor Who. ;)
<snap-l> Apparently there's several updates since I last turned on the wireless. :)
<rick_h_> http://www.i-programmer.info/news/87-web-development/2517-google-webrtc-browser-based-communications.html
<snap-l> Interesting, but not too hopeful
<snap-l> http://www.kobobooks.com/touch_readinglife
<snap-l> Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
<greg-g> hey man, badges are the new thing. everyone likes them, even rick_h_ !
<rick_h_> hah! gamification time
<rick_h_> yea, I missed the boy scout phase to get badges then
<snap-l> Third update.
<rick_h_> heh, see how much better your device could have been?
<rick_h_> gotta do the updates :P
<snap-l> Apparently.
<snap-l> Fourth update.
<snap-l> Wonder if I'm in an update loop
<greg-g> what are you updating?
<greg-g> ah e-reader
<snap-l> I've lost count on the upgrades
<snap-l> I think it's up to 8 or so
<snap-l> They rolled out 1.9, and I was on something like 1.7
<snap-l> with a bunch of minor upgrades along the way.
<snap-l> Yeah, this thing is just caught in a loop
<snap-l> it's not updating shit
<rick_h_> uh oh
<snap-l> Yeah, did a reset on it to see if that takes care of it
<snap-l> of course that means I have to type in all of my passwords again
<snap-l> yippee
<snap-l> probably ran out of room.  :)
 * snap-l runs a tight ship on his ereader.
<rick_h_> you have password(s) on your ereader?
<snap-l> Well, this inspector has about 15 minutes to get here
<snap-l> yeah, for the store and wifi
<rick_h_> inspector?
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<brousch> rick_h_ snap-l would you mind taking a peek at my proposal to make sure i'm not being stupid? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/cfp_template_2011.rst
<brousch> this is my first conference talk
<rick_h_> looks good,
<snap-l> Great, now I'm able to kill my kobo with the Learning Python epub book
<brousch> python won't run on kobo
<rick_h_> well I think it is the largest python book known
<snap-l> THing is it was able to run just fine beforehand
<snap-l> fucking piece of shit
<rick_h_> should send them an email :)
<snap-l> Yeah, that'll be productive
<rick_h_> maybe they can get you one of the newer models
<rick_h_> for a small $ee
<brousch> they'll send you a $10 gift card for borders
<brousch> ok, sending in the proposal
<rick_h_> "not valid with any other offer, or on days that end in 'Y'"
<rick_h_> brousch: awesome!
<rick_h_> I'll try to help support you when the flames come in :)
<brousch> haha, thanks
<rick_h_> with gondor.io, heroku, etc the concept of the "server > cloud" is going to raise some fur
<brousch> i saw a note last night that they've only gotten 6 proposals so far
<rick_h_> yea, was just checking in there
<rick_h_> he said they had 12 at this point last time
<brousch> well i'm not saying don't use the cloud, just use a regular old server until you need the cloud
<rick_h_> kind of crazy, they grew nearly 2x each year...wonder what's up this year
<brousch> a good question
<brousch> crap, i forgot to request that i not be put up against rick_h_. i really need the sqlalchemy tutorial
<brousch> now i need to dive into more Flask so i'm better prepared
<TeamXlink> Today at school the pc repair teacher was giving out parts, and one of the things I got was a Compaq DeskPro EN (Small Form Factor Version), As of now, it has a 133mhz Pentium III And  384mb RAM, I want to use it to host a game server, most likely a Warsow, or Quake III Arena server. Which Distro should I use, its going to be a dedicated server, a gui is not needed (Not wanted either).
<snap-l> You could probably put something like Ubuntu Server on that
<snap-l> though I'm not sure how much memory that would need.
<TeamXlink> Alright, sweet, thanks.
<_stink_> last i tried a stock ubuntu server install, it ran fine with 256 MB RAM
<TeamXlink> Should I use the latest version?
<snap-l> I'd stick with something like 10.04
<TeamXlink> Alright, sweet thanks.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-03
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<snap-l> It's still a good morning, no?
<rick_h_> not really
<brousch> rick_h_ --
<snap-l> Buncha negative nancies.
<rick_h_> dude, you go fixing html parsing beautiful soup issues first thing in the morning because the moron company did what you said not to do
<rick_h_> and then can't swallow because throat is swollen shut
<rick_h_> and see how happy your friday gets :)
<snap-l> I'm going to do something stupid. I'm going to change my corporate password on a Friday
<rick_h_> lol, so long monday login
<snap-l> rick_h_: You shouldn't have made a big deal about the thing that moron company did
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> well I just love waking up and checking my email only to see "IMPORTANT NEED FIX"
<rick_h_> from the boss
<snap-l> "Don't use div tags in tables. Don't use div tags in tables". "What were we supposed to do?" "Use div tags in tables"
<brousch> rick_h_ i'm gonna sign you up for one of the first robotic bodies. your organic one is always broken
<rick_h_> brousch: definitely, sign me up.
<rick_h_> I thought having a child was supposed to ravage the wife, she's fine.
<rick_h_> I'm the one dying since the little man came along
<brousch> oh no, i get sick 5x more often since the boy
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's because she deals with bugs on a daily basis.
<brousch> perfect attendence through HS, college, and work until he came along. now i get sinus infections 2 or 3 times a year
<rick_h_> but yea, so far I've fixed my bosses logging setup, fixed his password login issue, and fixed parsing html with regex magic
<snap-l> as opposed to someone who bitches about one little bug in Beautiful Soup. :)
<snap-l> Sheesh. :)
<rick_h_> it's not even 9am and I feel like I'm done for the day
<rick_h_> and I need to figure out how to call the doc to make an appt when I can't talk
<brousch> TTS
<rick_h_> where's those voice synth apps when you need one
<snap-l> TTD
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> think I'll use the text-wife relay system
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_devices_for_the_deaf
<brousch> i'll bet there's one for android, but it probably won't work while the phone is going
<snap-l> Just go to a swanky hotel that has one of these, and use that.
<brousch> here ya go, and it's command line http://www.xenocafe.com/tutorials/php/festival_text_to_speech/index.php
<snap-l> "Yes I'd like to make an appointment"
<snap-l> "around 2 colon zero zero pm, please"
<snap-l> "stupid sin-th-sizer"
<snap-l> brb.
<brousch> please record the phone call
<snap-l> greg-g: Here's to hoping that some sanity can come to the copyright discussion re: < 1923 recordings
<snap-l> I'm sure the big band sounds of [insert obscure name here] are really making the RIAA a killing
<brousch> listen to http://www.grcmc.org/radio/ at noon to hear me embarrass myself on the radio
<snap-l> brousch: It's community college radio at noon. Nobody listens. ;)
<brousch> community radio, not college affiliated
<brousch> greg-g kind of radio
<snap-l> Oh, even better. ;)
<_stink_> http://www.grcmc.org/radio/programmer_detail.php?programmer_id=144
<brousch> i didn't even know the dial went down to 88.1
<snap-l> (although, when I did my rubber duckie show, I did get someone at the major stations to comment on how ridiculous it was)
<_stink_> this program?
<brousch> _stink_: no
<brousch> it's just an interview with me and another grwebdev guy
<_stink_> ah
<brousch> airs at noon if you do the "isten live"
<brousch> listen online
<snap-l> http://www.grcmc.org/radio/?npad=1&news_id=1417
<snap-l> Wow, they have a 10,000 watt transmitter
<brousch> hm, maybe it is part of that segment, but airs at noon not 9:30
<snap-l> http://www.michiguide.com/dials/rad-y/wyce.html
<brousch> bah, nevermind, we got bumped to the 24th
<_stink_> aw man
<snap-l> And here I was getting ready to listen.
<brousch> me too, and sent out an announcement via half a dozen mediums
<snap-l> We are most certainly living in the future. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqRwxAYtato
<snap-l> Bah, forget that link.
<snap-l> We are most certainly living in the future. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn2JISG3ZBE
<snap-l> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/a-gift-for-my-successor <- Wow
<rick_h_> grumble grumble...
<snap-l> greg-g: http://www.musicimprint.com/Chart.aspx?Id=C000087
<snap-l> If we don't get the copyright reform, are these songs still going to be controlled by copyright?
<greg-g> if the federalization doesn't happen, then tons of stuff will still be in-(C) until around 2063 (2060-something)
<greg-g> the techdirt article on this is (unsurprisingly) good
<greg-g> brousch_: I don't hear you on that radio
<greg-g> brousch_: oh, I didn't finish reading scrollback, nevermind
<snap-l> greg-g: It got pushed to the 24th
<snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/75271417
<smoser> fyi... https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=265
<snap-l> tx
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/service-oriented/soap-versus-rest-battle-still-haunts-us/7093
<snap-l> âSOAP isnât complex, technically it might suck, but conceptually its simple,â
<snap-l> Sort of like the legal code.
<snap-l> conceptually, it's quite simple.
<snap-l> I will say, though, that SOAP does solve a particularly hard problem.
<snap-l> Unfortunately it was designed in an era where XML was going to solve all of our data interoperability problems and free us to think of problems that weren't related to data.
<snap-l> (har har)
<Milyardo> What problem does SOAP solve?
<jrwren> the client/server shared schema problem.
<jrwren> or at least WSDL part of soap solves it.
<Milyardo> I still don't see how that compares to REST which is a design pattern for mananging application states
<Milyardo> what does that have to do with a RPC Protocol?
<Milyardo> Are they considered exclusive because SOAP isn't "stateless"
<snap-l> Well, if you add WADL, you get something comparable to SOAP
<snap-l> er, SOAP / WSDL
<Milyardo> I guess idempotent was the word I was looking for when describing SOAP
<Milyardo> instead of stateless
<Milyardo> Still don't understand how WSDL relates
<snap-l> Well, SOAP allegedly solves the problem of getting disparate machines to exchange information
<snap-l> WSDL allows one to generate machine code off of a description
<Milyardo> what doe having a description of your interface have to do with managing the state of your application?
<snap-l> Two separate problems
<snap-l> 1) Describe the interface (WSDL)
<snap-l> 2) Send the data (SOAP)
<snap-l> and WADL is apparently the answer for the RESTful folks to create an interface for generating machine code.
<snap-l> (unfortunately, it's also a television station that plays 1/3 televangelists, 1/3 syndicated content, and 1/3 infomercials here in Detroit)
<snap-l> so I have a harder time taking it seriously. ;)
<brousch> it's also an amusing type of locomotion
<Milyardo> So just for clairity, SOAP == Document Protocol, REST ==  Application design patter, and WSDL = Interface definition, where do any of those technolgies become exclusive with one another?
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_State_Transfer#SOAP_RPC_contrast
<snap-l> I think you're making an incorrect distinction between SOAP and REST.
<Milyardo> All it says is that SOAP RPC implementations encourage developers to do things that aren't RESTful
<Milyardo> not that SOAP itself is somehow compareable or exclusive with REST for some reason
<Milyardo> So basically, I was write an application that is RESTful and uses SOAP, but that difficult, because WSDL defined methods easily let manage the state of my application beacuse I don't know the possible states a resource will have until runtime?
<Milyardo> *I can
<Milyardo> s/easily/don't easily
<Milyardo> no that still doesn't make sense
<Milyardo> You can't compare REST to SOAP
<jrwren> <3 WADL.
<jrwren> comcast took it away.
<jrwren> but i want my WADL back.
<jrwren> i might go digital just for WADL
<jrwren> you can totally compare REST to SOAP.
<jrwren> watch.
<jrwren> REST > SOAP
<jrwren> see how I did that?
<_stink_> haha
<snap-l> jrwren: Hahahaha
<snap-l> Hey devinheitmueller
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: hello there
<snap-l> Getting ready to head out to celebrate my dad's birthday.
<snap-l> Trying to surprise him a bit
<snap-l> I'm sure my mom has pretty much given it all away, though
<snap-l> she keeps a secret like a cat keeps a canary in it's mouth
<rick_h_> have fun
<snap-l> thanks!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-04
<brousch> grrrr, too many ittle annoyances with osx python
<brousch> time to pull out the ubuntu laptop
<Dekkard2> anyone actually using unity?
<greg-g> well, I would have said I am
<greg-g> though, I did just talk to a Math PhD student who is switching to KDE when he upgrades to 11.04
<snap-l> I am on a laptop
<snap-l> though that's not 100%
<snap-l> And I think we're just talking amongst ourselves.
<greg-g> indeed
<snap-l> Good morning
<jcastro> rick_h_: man, having a massive die off in my tank
<jcastro> only the tough tetras remain
<snap-l> What's dying off?
<snap-l> (I mean, what sort of fish?)
<jcastro> the non tough ones
<snap-l> Well, no shit. :)
<jcastro> it all started when one of them got stuck in the filter
<jcastro> and I didn't notice it
<jcastro> and it was dead
<jcastro> feeding death and ammonia throughout the whole tank
<jcastro> and then my bottom feeders died
<snap-l> Oh, not good.
<jcastro> but I didn't notice the dead body of the one in the filter
<jcastro> so I've been doing water changes, etc.
<jcastro> one of them was bloated and not looking so hot today
<jcastro> so I had to commit murder
<greg-g> :(
<_stink_> you are a ruthless god of the fish tank.
<jcastro> he had something contagious
<jcastro> he had to go
<jcastro> :(
<greg-g> sucky
<snap-l> Man, I am out of shape
<snap-l> Mowed the back yard, and winded myself
<snap-l> Not good
<snap-l> jcastro: Can totally relate
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/category/fish/
<snap-l> http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2qlLD0/www.simplimg.com/product_images/obejection.jpg
<rick_h_> jcastro: ouch, doesn't sound good
<rick_h_> sometimes I think the little planet needs to go through an cleansing I guess
<rick_h_> hopefully not too much $$ in the inhabitants
<TeamXlink> I've gotten a 2.8 GHZ Pentium 4, It supports HyperThreading, but I've read that most games don't benefit from it, because there not coded to use it, So I've disabled it, however, in the bios it reports it as 1.4 GHZ, but the OS reports it as 2.8 GHZ.
<TeamXlink> Seeing as 1.4 GHZ is half of 2.8GHZ I think this might have something to do with HyperThreading.
<TeamXlink> Thoughts?
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Why did you decide to turn off Hyperthreading?
<snap-l> I don't think there's any harm in turning it on
<TeamXlink> I've turned it off because it hurts performance in the games I play most.
<snap-l> Which games?
<TeamXlink> Mainly Quakeworld and Warsow.
<snap-l> What does it do to the performance of those games?
<TeamXlink> It lowers the performance.
<TeamXlink> EDIT:
<TeamXlink> It lowers the FPS.
<snap-l> Are you sure it's not a problem with your video card not being able to keep up?
<snap-l> Wow, I'm amazed at how much detail is in this recording from 1959
<snap-l> Yeah, I know that the analog technology was refined more than improved, but still
<snap-l> remarkable.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-06-05
<rick_h_> time to hide
<rick_h_> the wife is having a bachlorette party at the house so hiding in the office
<rick_h_> phew, what an exhausting day, everyone else partying hard?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Ugh, sorry to hear that.
<rick_h_> all good, means I can hack on bookie without guilt
<greg-g> I just woke up from 3 hour nap, and I'm still tired
<snap-l> greg-g: Ugh, sorry to hear that.
<rick_h_> heh, with you there
<rick_h_> when the boy went for his nap I took one as well
<rick_h_> he ran me ragged today
<greg-g> nice
<rick_h_> snap-l: got my mic pre-amp. Will have to test it out later on
<rick_h_> crazy how much it can amp this mic
<snap-l> How much distortion does it add?
<rick_h_> a lot out of the box
<rick_h_> had to tweak it down
<rick_h_> but seems cool
<snap-l> yeah, that's what I was afraid of. :)
<snap-l> Very cool.
<rick_h_> what sucks is that it sounds a bit different between a skype test call and the audacity recording
<rick_h_> I guess I need to actually record the calls and see what makes it to disk
<snap-l> Well, Skype has their own filtering
<snap-l> also make sure it's using the mic input. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I turned off the "let skype do stuff" checkbox
<rick_h_> yea, I definitely checked that
<snap-l> I <3 eMusic's site
<snap-l> Looking up "Everybody's Haydn" just to see if they have some reviews
<snap-l> The conductor is Sir Charles Mackerras, who passed away recently (within a year)
<snap-l> Upcoming Shows: This artist is not currently on tour
<snap-l> Pretty sure neither the composer nor the conductor are touring. :(
<rick_h_> heh, good call
<jrwren> everybody's haydn eh?
<snap-l> Don't be Haydn
<snap-l> It's a dumb name for what essentially are Telarc reissues.
<snap-l> but it was $10 with 40% off at Borders
 * snap-l cleaned up pretty nicely.
<snap-l> 6 discs, pllus a bunch of magazines
<snap-l> Had $15 in Borders bucks, a handful of 40% discs, and a 20% off everything else.
<snap-l> Saved 57.22
<rick_h_> yay! tests finding bugs
<jrwren> nice
<rick_h_> easily amused tonight heh
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Wow, this is bullshit:
<snap-l> http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=9.80530
<snap-l> Distribution Note(s):
<snap-l> Not available in the United States due to possible copyright restrictions. Available for streaming and download only. Not available on CD
<snap-l> The mind boggles how a Detriot Orchestra can record something that can't be released in the US.
<brousch> snap-l: http://www.grmuseum.org/node/3872
<snap-l> brousch: Nice!
<brousch> hm, i just found a diaper stuffed into our wine rack
<brousch> luckily it's not used
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, know how that feels
<brousch> pull-ups regularly become hats round here
<rick_h_> I can't wait
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> potty training sucks
<TeamXlink> I also experience mouse glitches with hyperthreading on.
<greg-g> TeamXlink: that seems, odd
<greg-g> (mouse glitches with HT on)
<TeamXlink> Yeah.
<TeamXlink> I've lessend the problem by turning mouse filtering off, raw input on, and vsync on, but it still glitches.
<snap-l> Are you using a USB mouse?
<brousch> i love the open source culture
<brousch> i took jcastro's unity keyboard shortcuts and made a handout/cheat sheet for a wmlug meeting. someone else took my cheat sheets and translated them into spanish
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-28
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think someone turned up the gravity
<snap-l> Holy shit, I have great taste.
<snap-l> (aka: I marked a song to play in a future eposide of OMC, and I'm loving it again)
<snap-l> http://johannfaustusprojects.bandcamp.com/
<snap-l> Our first Album, produced December 2009 - April 2010.
<snap-l> We didn't have money for a studio or making CDs, but we're looking forward to both! So we hope, you'll donate at least 8 - 10â¬ for 80 minutes of intense Metal ;)
<snap-l> Good luck with that.
<snap-l> http://urizen.bandcamp.com/album/universe-red <- This is the second time I've ever had my ass kicked by chiptune music
<jrwren> snap-l: what about Mind In A Box?
<jrwren> or Code64 ?
<jrwren> snap-l: have to agree. this first urizen track is great.
<snap-l> jrwren: I don't listen to much chiptune stuff
<snap-l> CLosest I've gotten is 8-Bit Weapon
<snap-l> and that's because Seth is pretty cool.
<rick_h_> snap-l: turned up the gravity?
<snap-l> Yeah, I mowed the lawn after we got home
<snap-l> took a shower, and I felt like I was 20lbs heavier
<rick_h_> ugh, on my list for tomorrow
<rick_h_> I don't know how you managed to do that
<rick_h_> I'm beat
<snap-l> small lot, and a push mower
<rick_h_> I guess, but still
<snap-l> And not much concern for how it looks afterward. :)
<rick_h_> I came in and jumped in the AC and died
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> I find it slightly disturbing that people will sign up for bandcamp, and accept Paypal transactions from Paypal, but won't either collect the money, or not sign up for Paypal itself
<snap-l> I keep getting refunds from folks that haven't collected their money in a month
<greg_g> snap-l: musicians aren't the smartest of people
<snap-l> greg-g: no doubt
<rick_h_> greg-g: around?
<greg-g> rick_h_: a bit
<rick_h_> greg-g: that's ok, was going to ask saddle advice, but ended up picking one up. We'll see how it does
<rick_h_> my old one started to get pretty sore around 15mi and so the 32mi ride convinced me to try to upgrade
<greg-g> rick_h_: ah, yeah, what'd you end up getting?
<greg-g> I know a couple people (well, talked to them on the caltrain bike car) who have those seats that just have the back part, as in, only your sit bones touch anything
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah saw those and thought it was too modern for me
<rick_h_> I ended up getting a selle sl xc I think
<rick_h_> basically selle with gel, pretty hard though. everyone is saying the longer your ride the harder the seat should be I guess
<rick_h_> couldn't bring myself to get the selle flite model that I was really looking at, didn't seem worth twice the one I got
<greg-g> yeah, my saddle is one hard ass racing one. my butt has gotten used to it
<rick_h_> yea, I've given the stock one time. I've gotten from 7mi to 15mi before I start to get uncomfy
<rick_h_> but hopefully this one will get me up a level
<rick_h_> I want to try to do that 30+mi ride on the Sat pretty often
<rick_h_> can't do it weekly, but hopefully every other ish
<greg-g> yeah, that's awesome
<greg-g> I haven't ever done a group ride like that, other than a couple critical masses and a boy scout thing way back in the day
<rick_h_> yea, 38 peeps, was pretty fun. Very different riding with a group
<rick_h_> really nice riding on the road vs just sidewalks like I do around here
<rick_h_> 32mi on the road > 20mi of sidewalks
<greg-g> oh hell yeah
<greg-g> I could never do sidewalks after riding on the road
<greg-g> sidewalks are so.... pedestrian ;)
<rick_h_> hah, well around here I take what I can get
<rick_h_> my poor bike is turning fraken-bike. next up is replacing real hardware vs just grips/saddle/fender/etc
<greg-g> frankenbikes are the best
<greg-g> my road bike is now kind of a cross between road and commuter
<rick_h_> yea, only problem is that this cross trail is a bit strange. I ride it very road-bikeish but it's more mountain bike as far as parts go
<rick_h_> so when I get to replacing derailer/etc it'll be interesting figuring out what to put on and such
<rick_h_> that's awesome though. I like a bike with some commuter in it. Means it's useful
<greg-g> zactly :)
<greg-g> anywho, time to go get ready for a bbq in the east bay
<greg-g> later!
<rick_h_> enjoy!
<rick_h_> brousch: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4034567 looks like it hit the bit time
<rick_h_> heh, and duped...sigh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-29
<rick_h_> man, even TWiT is getting hard to listen to any longer
<snap-l> What happened now?
<rick_h_> just listening to the latest podcast
<rick_h_> hard to listen to, just seems sucky
<snap-l> who did they have on?
<rick_h_> John C, the guy in Tx, and someone else
<rick_h_> last few have been a bit hard to get through though imo
<snap-l> Harry McCracken
<snap-l> He's got a voice for print
<snap-l> Plus the topics are pretty meh
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> I find the ones I listen to are TWIG and Scurity Now
<rick_h_> yea, but twig can get kind of nuts and over their head
<snap-l> mostly because they tend to stay on some semblence of a target
<rick_h_> I've never gotten into security now
<snap-l> It's OK. It's a little basic at times, but it makes for light listening when doing the dishes
<snap-l> A thte very least, I feel like I got what I put into it
<rick_h_> what's his name gets a bit predicable and carries on too much if you listen for a long time
<snap-l> SOmetimes I get that with TWiG
<rick_h_> Jarvis, he's starting to turn into nails on chalkboard
<snap-l> Jeff Jarvis?
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> He doesn't bother me that much, but he does get into his grooves
<rick_h_> he didn't before, but you bring up a topic and I can almost tell you what he's going to say
<rick_h_> and when he tries to hang in the developer bits I roll my eyes :P
<rick_h_> anyway, past my bed time. See you all later.
<snap-l> Laterness. :)
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> doh, was just a bit too early with my morning to catch brousch
<brousch> i am here
<brousch> sorry, left my computer open all night. it may have given the impression that i was actually looking
<shakes808> Morning all
<brousch> Morning one
<rick_h_> ugh, so tired
<rick_h_> and damn, weekend w/o contacts and not the left one one get comfy today
<brousch> You'd better fix that before you blow up Launchpad with typos ;)
<rick_h_> boom!
<rick_h_> no, it'll just make me hate this django stuff more :P
<brousch> What'll it take to get you to ride the pink pony with pride and happiness?
<rick_h_> rm -rf django
<rick_h_> git xa "Remove django" && git push origin :master
<brousch> Did you see my PyOhio talk ideas email?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, where did you send it?
<brousch> ubuntu-us-mi email list
<rick_h_> oh, yea no I don't read that very often
<brousch> heh
<brousch> I haven't gotten any responses from that list. Its possible it failed
<rick_h_> no, I see it now
<brousch> All bed?
<brousch> bad?
<rick_h_> no, good stuff
<rick_h_> the last one would be interesting from the py3 angle, but you might get some big time framework people in there so beware
<rick_h_> the first one is cool, pyohio, intro stuff is good
<rick_h_> the second one I'm not sure just because of how big/vague it can be
<brousch> yeah, i would make sure it's know #3 is a beginner level talk
<brousch> #2 would be a series of "Here's an open source program that does cool stuff. Here's how you can use Python in it"
<brousch> I've only seen Mark Ramm at PyOhio. What other framework people have been there?
<rick_h_> there's some django higher ups (they were ones staying my SA tutorial last year)
<rick_h_> and just that there's lots to get told how to do/fix/etc in the web framework world
<brousch> I put the Django one on there because there was nothing last year. Bunch of geekers.
<rick_h_> yea, and I'd ping the pyohio guys on that one just in case several people notice that and submit similar topics
<rick_h_> but if no one has, that's a really good beginner thing to have there
<brousch> Devlin and Floehr are both on the GRPUG list, so I was hoping they'd notice
<brousch> snap-l: http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/12/05/29/0015231/open-source-bach-project-completed-score-and-recording-now-online
<snap-l> brousch: That's pretty cool
<snap-l> brousch: This is indeed a find.
<snap-l> I have a few copies of the Goldberg Variations, and this is right up there.
<brousch> I'LL HAVE TO GIVE IT A LISTEN
<brousch> sorry
<snap-l> OK!!!!
<brousch> NOW READ MY EMAIL AND GIVE ME YOUR OPINION
<rick_h_> http://blog.bitly.com/post/23998132587/welcome-to-the-new-bitly
<snap-l> bitmarks
<snap-l> Interesting
<brousch>  utoh
<rick_h_> it's the old delicious
<rick_h_> don't do content though still
<rick_h_> iphone app, wonder if it works mobile
<rick_h_> I'm sure they'll add it though
<snap-l> This confuses me: I'm not sure how to rage-quit it. :)
<snap-l> THERE IS CHANGE! I MUST RAGEQUIT CHANGE!
<rick_h_> it does make perfect sense for3 bitly though, have to give them credit for finally doing it
<snap-l> I <3 impersonal e-mails from Best Buy
<snap-l> "Just a quick note to say thank you for your recent purchase. We hope you love every second of your new technology."
<snap-l> We bought a refrigerator for my father-in-law.
<snap-l> I'm sure he's eagerly reading the manaul as we speak, looking through the vast options of enjoyment
<snap-l> "It has 6 settings, 0 - 5"
<snap-l> Woooooooow.
<rick_h_> about time you joined the modern age
<rick_h_> can you even toss out that old 'ice box'?
<brousch> Ooooh 50% off all Javascript O'Reilly books
<snap-l> rick_h_: He had an older Haier college-dorm-room fridge that just up and quit
<snap-l> so we got him a new one. (assisted living, blah blah)
<snap-l> brousch: I think ihave 50% of them.
<brousch> now you can get the other 50% for 50% off!
<rick_h_> I can probably give you the other 50% :P
<snap-l> Wow, lots of new ones.
<rick_h_> linky?
<snap-l> http://oreilly.com/javascript/index.html
<snap-l> I really hate the titles that are essentially blog posts.
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920025887.do?code=CFFCJS
<snap-l> 20 pages? Seriously?
<snap-l> Although it's free.
<snap-l> Hmm.
<brousch> FREE
<snap-l> (*whistles*)
<brousch> If it's free, gimme three!
 * snap-l spent enough time on the west-side to have the free bug
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022565.do <- wtf?
<snap-l> I have never heard of this
<snap-l> http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
<snap-l> ye gods
<rick_h_> me either
<rick_h_> there goes snap-l ...
 * snap-l and complex video games do not go hand-in-hand
<snap-l> I like challenge. I don't like having 500 things to remember
<snap-l> and I HATE grinding in video games
<_stink_> Final Fantasy 1, anyone?
<_stink_> i remember that as the definition of grinding in a video game.
<greg-g> snap-l: my buddy @pete is really into dwarf fortress
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(video_gaming)
<greg-g> he was telling me the rules regarding lava and animal cages, holy batman complex
<snap-l> heh
<_stink_> yeah
<snap-l> The ones that irk me are  how you're supposed to be a great warrior, yet after the fifth attack by a roly poly duck and a man-eating plant, you're essentially rubbish
<_stink_> leveling up because the next major step has mobs too hard for now
<greg-g> I mean, 15 years ago and I would be all over that kind of stuff, but now, not so much
<snap-l> Yeah, I have enough games that I don't play because of that
<rick_h_> note to self, don't ever start a grep that grabs the django source on accident
<snap-l> I guess there's some thrill in seeing your level 1 fighter become a major player, but I'd rather play a game than clock-in
<snap-l> Also, collecting pointless side quests drives me insane
<rick_h_> come on, if you don't put in the time how can you expect to feel like you got your $60 worth?
<greg-g> d00d, the journey IS the destination
<snap-l> "You must save the world, but first my pig sty needs cleaning"
<greg-g> This IS it.
<greg-g> (apologies to Alan Watts)
<snap-l> "Dear sir, I realize the world is about to end by some evil wizard, but I've lost my cat. His name is fluffy. Please go out to the forest of anal raping to see if you can find him"
<rick_h_> """
<rick_h_> URLConf for mazaserver.
<rick_h_> """
<rick_h_> oops
<snap-l> Heh, I think I need to turn off radio stream scrobbling
<snap-l> JoDee is listening to UK radio, so I'm getting things like Blink 182, Keane, and Arctic Monkeys in my last.fm stream
<snap-l> Oh fuck, now I'm listening to Adele
<rick_h_> heh, you should see my netflix suggestions on day
<brousch> Sharing accounts like that is not a good idea. That's how I end up with Vince Gill and Enya in my streams
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh totally. JoDee watched some kung-fu movie. Now we're getting recommendations for other kung-fu movies
<snap-l> brousch: That's grounds for divorce.
<rick_h_> I'm starting to get kids stuff based off the curious george and thomas the train, vampire stuff, nutsy things (she's watched archer, parks and rec)
<rick_h_> I feel like it's not even my account any more
<brousch> Kung Pow! is the best Kung-fu movie
<snap-l> I haven't seen Archer. How is that?
<rick_h_> I'm not a fan of that kind of thing
<rick_h_> but she loved it
<rick_h_> she watched them all and we bought the current one off amazon
<snap-l> J started watching Eureka
<brousch> I watched maybe 1.5 seasons of Eureka. It was OK
<snap-l> Yeah, it looks like it could run out of steam pretty rapidly.
<brousch> After I realized I had watched 4 episodes just for the smart, hot women, I stopped
<snap-l> brousch: heh
<snap-l> There we go. Listening to Goldberg Variations
<snap-l> and not Adele.
 * brousch is afraid to look up Adele
<greg-g> yay, goldberg variations!
<snap-l> greg-g: The Kimiko Ishizaka ones released recently
<greg-g> the public domain recordings?
<greg-g> (right?)
<snap-l> Yep
<greg-g> yeah, downloaded them last night for this flight
<greg-g> (and wee, the plane finally made it to the gate, only delayed like 30 minutes now)
<rick_h_> I still want one :/
<rick_h_> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/next-step-in-chrome-os-journey.html
<brousch> So get one!
<brousch> Unfortunately they aren't bringing the new interface to my Cr-48 :(
<rick_h_> yea, I gave my cr-48 to my brother who loves it
<rick_h_> sad it's not getting upgraded
<brousch> One annoying thing is I reboot it way more often than Linux
<rick_h_> I'd love to get the wife the 'desktop' and take her laptop away
<brousch> Seems to get locked up on Flash more frequently, and has frequent updates
<rick_h_> yea, but that's good that it's getting firmware updates
<brousch> Also I think it has survived the longest of any of The Boy's computers
<brousch> faiirly resistant to milk spills and crumbs in the keyboard
<rick_h_> yea, it's definitely the kind of thing I'd hand a kid
<rick_h_> I did like the cr-48 almost like a tablet, casual device
<rick_h_> sitting around the couch, hand to people that came over, etc
<snap-l> Drupal is great right up until the second I use it
<snap-l> then I want to shove it into a cannon and blast it into space.
<rick_h_> always been my experience
<rick_h_> and the review for the new chromebook http://goo.gl/a0T7y
<snap-l> The website encountered an unexpected error. Please try again later.
<brousch> snap-l++
<rick_h_> oh hmm, worked for me
<rick_h_> well link is at the bottom there
<rick_h_> I'll have to figure out why that failed
<rick_h_> http://readable.bmark.us/view/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.readwriteweb.com%2Farchives%2Fnew-chromebook-chromebox-are-good-enough-to-grab-minds-market-share.php
<rick_h_> that work?
<rick_h_> nope
<rick_h_> oh, heh, the original server is having issues
<rick_h_> I got the error page from RWW
<rick_h_> nice, need to get my caching going on there so that when I share a link like that it just pulls the cache
<snap-l> This will probably mean more to greg-g thank anyone here, but OMC now has it's own collection page: http://archive.org/details/openmetalcast
<snap-l> I think it's still in the process of refreshing
<gamerchick02> oooh. that's pretty cool, snap-l
<snap-l> Thanks, gamerchick02
<gamerchick02> and hey, i'm here in the irc. i haven't been in a long long time.
<gamerchick02> for that, i feel bad.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Don't feel bad
<snap-l> just get caught up, and life will be good
<snap-l> life's too short for regret.
<gamerchick02> good point. i miss everyone here when i'm at work.
<gamerchick02> i doubt i can get leeway for IRC/web.
<gamerchick02> "you want to do what now?"
<gamerchick02> "no."
<gamerchick02> yep. that's the reaction i'll get from upper management.
<gamerchick02> i'm going to inflame the masses in here, but what do people think of the macbook air?
<gamerchick02> *awaits torches and pitchforks*
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Well, if you want a macbook, and prize portabiity over performance, it's a good fit
<snap-l> also good for cutting read
<snap-l> bread
<gamerchick02> cutting bread?
<gamerchick02> referring to the sharp edge?
<gamerchick02> ;)
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: I think you have to state your OS choice before asking that question
<rick_h_> if you want OSX, many an OSX fan love it see jrwren
<snap-l> and that's rick_h_, being diplomatic
<gamerchick02> i just need the thing for portable web and writing
<gamerchick02> i'm OS agnostic right now toward it
<rick_h_> if you want to run linux on it, then enjoy, it can be a bit bleeding edge with hardware though there are canonical employees that run it and some document getting bits to work
<gamerchick02> if i was going to get an ultrabook, i'd want ubuntu on it.
<gamerchick02> if i'm going to get an Air, i'll be running OSx.
<rick_h_> in a couple of weeks the new lenovos come out and I'm eagerly awaiting those
<gamerchick02> OSX, even. dangit
<gamerchick02> oooh. how are the prices and battery life on them?
<rick_h_> system76 annouced a couple of new laptops this past week
<gamerchick02> nothing small though.
<rick_h_> yea, looking now, guess not
<gamerchick02> i'm looking 11-13"
<gamerchick02> 14" is fine, but i can get a dell for cheaper in that category. and dells usually play well with ubuntu.
<rick_h_> hmmm, I need a way to dump an email thread from mutt
<gamerchick02> also: weight.
<gamerchick02> i have no idea how to do that, rick_h_. mutt?
<gamerchick02> i keep trying thunderbird but keep going back to gmail in the browser.
<rick_h_> yea, I've got a thread disucssing that from work
<Milyardo> rick_h_: use alpine
 * Milyardo ducks
<gamerchick02> Milyardo, i used pine back in school
<gamerchick02> it was functional. and it made me feel geeky to use the text email thingo. :)
<gamerchick02> also, the webmail interface they had for the school email was bollacks.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: check out the samsung series 9, asus zenbook, precise runs on the air well with one bug in booting that there's a work around for and some thunderbolt lacking since it's not fully supported in linux
<gamerchick02> ah. i will look at those too. thanks
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: those were the three discussed to varying degrees all with positive users
<gamerchick02> thank you.
<rick_h_> each has a small gotcha, if you want the details I can try to pull the messages out, but it's a 20ish message thread
<gamerchick02> what about battery life (that's the elephant in the room)?
<rick_h_> yea, most of them do well, the samsung not as good as the air, but over 4hrs it seems.
<gamerchick02> Apple claims 5 hours on the Air 11".
<rick_h_> tehse are all running ubuntu, so will vary
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> they claim 7 hours on the 13".
<rick_h_> just going off of what people said, no first hand knowledge here
<gamerchick02> but yes, i'm going to a build-your-own desktop (this weekend in fact) and some sort of portable (ultra-portable?) laptop.
<snap-l> If you're looking for a basic thin, light, 11" ultrabook, the Thinkpads are also a nice choice.
<gamerchick02> :) i've heard loads of good things about the thinkpads. and they will run ubuntu with minimum of fuss, yes?
<rick_h_> yea
<gamerchick02> :-D sweet
<rick_h_> I'm going to be getting my 5th one I think
<rick_h_> or 6th
<snap-l> I think 12.04 will run pretty well on the thinkpads.
<gamerchick02> you're almost married to the thinkpad. hah!
<gamerchick02> how long have you been using that brand, rick_h_?
<snap-l> gamerchick02: I think it's a little more than marriage
<rick_h_> no one touches it, not my wife, my boy...
<snap-l> more like symbiosis
<gamerchick02> it's your first love.
<gamerchick02> :-D
<rick_h_> well, I had a thinkpad and went away from it back around 2001 or 2 I think
<rick_h_> toshiba and dell, ran back to thinkpads ever since
<gamerchick02> over 10 years. wow. that's a good run on a brand
<gamerchick02> it has the rick_h_ seal of approval.
<rick_h_> everyone wants me to recommend a laptop and it's the only ones I'll vouch for
<gamerchick02> well. you know what you're talking about when it comes to computers.
<gamerchick02> so does everyone in this chat room.
<gamerchick02> we all have our favorite brands, but we know what we like.
<gamerchick02> *shrug*
<snap-l> I knooooow what I liiiiike, and I liiiiike what I knoooow.
<gamerchick02> :-D
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_EYU75uhKk
<gamerchick02> ok, switching to wireless. why is this not seamless?
<gamerchick02> i might go offline for a sec
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Different MAC addresses for different network cards
<snap-l> so essentially you'll get a new IP address if you switch between the two, unless you can somehow bridge them
<gamerchick02_> i'd love to bridge them
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-30
<gamerchick02_> grr. how do i sign myself out completely?
<gamerchick02_> oh. i just kicked my other user name out. yay!
<gamerchick02_> thanks for the info, snap_l
<brousch> air seems pointless if you're going to run ubuntu
<brousch> can get an ultrabook for cheaper
<gamerchick02_> good point. i just want something that will either Just Work with ubuntu or Just Work regardless. and the Air will Just Work.
<brousch> for some definition of work
<gamerchick02_> i'm not using it to "work".
<gamerchick02_> i will have a desktop for that. ;)
<gamerchick02_> desktop at home and a CAD laptop for "work" stuff. job stuff, i mean.
<gamerchick02_> oh, and it's my first foray into building my own machine this weekend.
<gamerchick02_> i'm armed with parts and a boyfriend who will help me. wish me luck! :)
<rick_h_> omg omg omg omg " Lenovo says it will offer a 1600 x 900 screen option when the X230 goes on sale and, if thatÃ¢ÂÂs the case, we recommend you splurge for the additional pixels."
<gamerchick02_> really?
<gamerchick02_> what's the price point on that?
<rick_h_> just saw that in a hands on review of the new upcoming x230
<rick_h_> it's going to be $$
<rick_h_> think it'll start around 1100ish
<gamerchick02_> eeee!
<gamerchick02_> entry level air is 939 at BB right now.
<snap-l> Good machines aren't cheap
<gamerchick02_> i know that.
<rick_h_> yea, I mean I've not bought a desktop since this last x210
<snap-l> gamerchick02_: That's probably because the air is due for refresh
<gamerchick02_> i'm at a point now that i can get what i want and not what i can afford.
<rick_h_> it's been my daily driver for over 2yrs doing 100% of my work and travel
<gamerchick02_> i want to be able to upgrade the computer.
<rick_h_> yea, ivy bridge for the macs is coming soon
<gamerchick02_> laptop is un-upgradable. i'm also not doing a lot of traveling with the current laptop i have.
<gamerchick02_> just home. i'm going to install Mint on this one and then offload it to my mom. i think
<gamerchick02_> we'll see how she likes it.
<Milyardo> People still hate Miguel de Izaca? What did he do wrong exactly?
<gamerchick02_> i have no idea. who is that?
<Blazeix> i don't think anyone credible hates him
<Milyardo> A founder of GNOME and Mono
<gamerchick02_> oh.
<gamerchick02_> cool. i guess i'm a heathen because i like stuff like Banshee (mono) and i'm thinking of getting a macbook air.
<gamerchick02_> heh
<Milyardo> I just always though his contributions would should probably make him one of the more accomplished open source developers in open source history, not the personfication of Mircrosoft I think some people may actually hold for him.
<Milyardo> If you're going to draw us vs them arguements into open/closed source debate, I have no idea why you would put make him out to be an enemy
<snap-l> Milyardo: Some people don't know how to let go of a grudge
<brousch> Milyardo: now he has that whole mono for mobile business, but no linux client
<brousch> too practical, not enough freetard
<snap-l> Yeah, because everyone has welcomed mono on Linux
<derekv> stupid power outage
<gamerchick02_> power outage? :(
<derekv> last night
<gamerchick02_> awww.
<derekv> low voltage
<gamerchick02_> storms?
<derekv> yea
<gamerchick02_> ah.
<derekv> not enough to run the fan
<snap-l> http://soundcloud.com/bluestahli/beastie-boys-sabotage-blue
<derekv> it made just barely some air current
<gamerchick02_> ugh. and last night was hot too.
<derekv> I keep talking about wanting to install bsd on this workstation
<derekv> yea I kept waking up sweating
<derekv> It bothers me slightly that my laptop is now more powerful than my workstation... but I'm not home enough
<gamerchick02_> derekv, i've never tried BSD. read about it.
<derekv> Trying to decide if I want to upgrade ram on it, upgrade the whole thing or hold off
<gamerchick02_> hope you cool off tonight. round these parts it's supposed to be about 55F tonight.
<derekv> it feels nice out now
<gamerchick02_> snap-l, that song you sent is interesting.
<derekv> gamerchick02_, FreeBSD is tight.  Its just... clean and well organized
<gamerchick02_> cool.
<gamerchick02_> repos and all that like linux?
<derekv> the entire software management system works off of makefiles
<derekv> its called ports
<snap-l> http://engineering.twitter.com/2012/05/improving-performance-on-twittercom.html
<gamerchick02_> cool, derekv. i appreciate the information.
<derekv> basically there is a package installer, packages are normal tarballs .tar.gz with a standard layout inside, and you can fetch the packages precompiled as you would with say apt
<gamerchick02_> oooh. very cool. thanks!
<derekv> but typically you install "ports" which is a directory structure with thousands of directories, make scripts and patches.  go to the directory and type "make install", it downloads the source, applys patches and builds, sticks into a tar.gz and passes this to the package installer =]
<derekv> of course taking in any dependancies recursively
<gamerchick02_> nice. sounds simple, actually.
<derekv> and it works really well
<derekv> the gentoo portage system is based off of it.  portage adds a lot of powerful features but they overshoot the mark, its a lot less reliable than the bsd system is
<derekv> reliable
<derekv> didn't look like it was spelled right
<gamerchick02_> gentoo is a project. or anyway, it has the reputation of being a project.
<gamerchick02_> any linux distro can be a project if it doesn't play well with your hardware.
<derekv> everything is a project
<derekv> oh you mean for the users
<gamerchick02_> :-D true.
<gamerchick02_> i mean for the person setting it up, yes.
<derekv> yea gentoo would rather be a project I think... they want to be easy but not if it means sacrificing some control somewhere
<gamerchick02_> gentoo: the distro for control freaks.
<derekv> its meant to give you basically the power of if you custom rolled your own but being a lot easier than that (which it is)
<derekv> exactly
<gamerchick02_> :)
<derekv> but its still a pain in my ass sometimes
<gamerchick02_> heh.
<derekv> I also find it to be a pain in the ass when you take away control of something, and I end up missing it
<derekv> I guess if your using debian or ubuntu and you run up against that a lot, then you need to go somewhere
<gamerchick02_> true.
<derekv> Which I did at one point at least
<derekv> Not sure how true that'd be for me now
<derekv> I'd always want some feature you needed to compile in
<gamerchick02_> i do like ubuntu, even though it pulls some control away from me. partly because it works. i  mean, i don't have to think too hard with it. hehe. i think that might be a bad thing.
<derekv> Or I want x software without bringing in all of KDE
<gamerchick02_> ah. yes.
<gamerchick02_> the old "i want to run a KDE app without all of KDE coming along with it" problem.
<derekv> the bsd system does it a little bit sometimes... its more inbetween
<gamerchick02_> that works
<derekv> it gives you some "knobs" for things like kde ... hopefully the port will respect it, if not you have the option of going in and playing with the makefile a little bit
<gamerchick02_> ah. a good compromise, sounds like.
<derekv> its nice too if you don't want to wait to compile it yourself and the defaults are fine you can just pull the packages from ftp
<derekv> ala apt
<gamerchick02_> sweet. i might try that sometime.
<gamerchick02_> but, i do need to go to bed soon.
<derekv> =]
<derekv> night
<gamerchick02_> almost 10 pm. this whole work thing is getting in my way of internet chat.
<gamerchick02_> :) see everyone tomorrow! :)
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/05/29/variations-of-goldberg-variations/
<snap-l> If anyone wants to try out the MUG on-line membership sign-up, please see here: http://www.mug.org/membership/
<snap-l> I'm not sure it's working properly, but if you want to provude feedback, please let me know
<greg-g> snap-l: cool!
<shakes808> Good evening all, testing out an android app. Can anyone see this?
<derekv> shakes808, seen
<shakes808> good morning all
<AndChat|410969> This message is from my phone
<shakes808> boots me off :(
<rick_h_> boot
<brousch> Good morning everyone!
<rick_h_> zzzzz
<brousch> I went to bed at 9:30 last night. It's great to be alive!
<shakes808> Johnny 5 IS ALIVE!
<snap-l> "Celebrating Programming Windows
<snap-l> Way to be a downer, O'reilly
<shakes808> What is the MUG discount code? Want to see if it applies to that book for S's & G's
<rick_h_> DSUG
<shakes808> said discount was applied, but no change in price lol
<brousch> i think it shows at the very end
<AndChat|410969> Oh
<shakes808> in checkout and still not applied. When you say end, after payment is going through?
<brousch> no, should be before payment
<brousch> are you trying to apply 2 codes?
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> no
<shakes808> just one
<brousch> i think DSUG only applies on non-sale items
<shakes808> it is already $10
<shakes808> and was seeing if it would go lower :DE
<brousch> so if it's already discounted because it's the deal of the day, DSUG won't get you more
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> Do you think this is worth it? http://www.oreillyschool.com/certificates/python-programming.php
<shakes808> and will our discount apply? I don't want to mock sign up in fear that it will sign me up lol
<snap-l> shakes808: I think the discount only applies to books
<snap-l> can try it, though
<shakes808> snap-l: alright, not going to do it quite yet lol. Do you think those would be worth it? They are accredited by the University of Illionois ...
<shakes808> $500 a course seems pretty steep
<snap-l> I have no idea
<shakes808> for an online course
<snap-l> They're worth it if you respond to the classroom environment better than self-learning
<snap-l> and I can't answer that for you. :)
<snap-l> If you spent most of your college years sitting in the back of the class, not paying attention, then probably not. ;)
<shakes808> HA HA, damn
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> jcastro: Happy Anniversary
<jcastro> thanks dude!
<jcastro> hey so it's looking more and more like ann arbor
<snap-l> I'm not opposed to this
<snap-l> as long as it isn't Borculo
<snap-l> or BFE
<brousch> Hey, what's wrong with Borculo?
<brousch> My ancestors founded Borculo
<snap-l> I rest my case
<brousch> Watch yourself or I'll send the Dutch Mafia to rough you up. You'll hear them coming because of their shoes, but you won't outrun their whips woven of last year's tulip stems
<snap-l> I thought it was a $100 to even think impure thoughts about a tulip
<brousch> I think that's only in Holland proper
<brousch> And what sort of impure tulip thoughts are you having?
<brousch> Speaking of impure thoughts, good morning, _stink_
<_stink_> :O
<jrwren> shakes808: certificates are rarely worth it. and NEVER worth it when it is open source tech.
<jrwren> jcastro: YAY!  welcome to AA
<jrwren> jcastro: i only wish you were also looking for new work, so I could try and recruit you.
<jcastro> jrwren: where do you guys live?
<jrwren> jcastro: we live in Milan, which is NOT AA. it sucks. But we are looking to move to AA soon.
<jrwren> jcastro: if you need an AA realtor let me know. I know a guy who is very good.
<jrwren> I think n0p_ used him and was happy.
<brousch> I thought you loved Milan
<jcastro> jrwren: we have a USAA approved realtor, but I'd love his info anyway, can you email it to me?
<jrwren> sure.
<jrwren> USAA?
<jcastro> it's my bank/mortgage for my va loan
<jrwren> brousch: no. i love the brewery. I don't like living where I love.
<jcastro> I call them and they assign me certain realtors
<jrwren> haha, castro@oakland.edu just came up in my addrlist.  you prefer canonical or gmail?
<jcastro> jorge@ubuntu.com
<jcastro> actually, funnily enough, they gave jill that address when she went to OU
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> i'm surprised at that.
<shakes808> jrwren: thank you for the insight. Just continue with the free stuff ;) Sounds good to me :D
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah it's weird
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sent JoDee a bookie invite.
<snap-l> rick_h_: so now you're on the hook. :)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> snap-l: thanks for the heads up
<jrwren> shakes808: How old are you? do you know why certifications exist?
<shakes808> jrwren: 27, and thought to get specific training/learning without the extra stuff
<Blazeix> they mostly exist so people with no practical experience can put stuff on their resumes
<jrwren> shakes808: no. Certifications exist for resellers and partner certification. e.g. Cisco & MSFT. Cisco & MSFT partner companies are required to keep a certain number of certified people on staff to keep their certification.
<jrwren> so if you want to work for that kind of company, then certifications are great. If you want to do other things, then certifications are useless (and possibly detrimental).
<snap-l> It's a convenient way set up for hiring managers to know what the competencies of their staff are.
<snap-l> Much like saying you need 4 years of college
<jrwren> that is an occasional side effect, but not the primary purpose.
<snap-l> It doesn't mean you currently know whatever you're certified in, it just means you paid money to get a piece of paper
<jrwren> sssh, don't tell the hiring managers that ;)
<snap-l> If I were doing something with Cisco routers, I'd want someone Cisco-certified, because I haven't a clue about Cisco routers.
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> s/Cisco/RHEL/g does the statement still hold?
<snap-l> and the assumption is that the certification would somehow certify the work you're doing on the router
<snap-l> jrwren: Only because I trust RHEL
<snap-l> I don't trust MSCE
<jrwren> i don't trust any of them.
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, given a pinch of time, I'd probably trust a Cisco / RHEL
<jrwren> that said, back in '99 before RHEL, the redhat cert was VERY good. the hands on labs portion of the test was excellent
<snap-l> but agan, that's because I've never cracked the lid of a cisco router.
<jrwren> they don't have lids :p
<snap-l> You beer believe I'd be watching the RHEL like a hawk
<snap-l> jrwren: See? My point exactly. :)
<jrwren> you've never logged into IOS and configured some rules?
<snap-l> jrwren: Nope. Was always someone else's dept.
<jrwren> or catos ?
<snap-l> Closest I've come to Cisco was flashing my Linksys router. :)
<jrwren> yeah, so I guess I know enough having done a little to know better than to trust the guy with the entry level cisco certs.
<snap-l> I've looked at some IOS commands, and while it looks simple, I don't trust myself to not create circular routes, or what-not
<shakes808> gotchya, so no certs for me :D
<snap-l> shakes808: again, ir depends
<jrwren> you likely wouldn't create a certcular route, because you'd use a routing protocol.
<snap-l> if you're in an organization that treats certs like bars on a uniform, get the certs
<jrwren> and you'd not create a circular network because well, SPANNING TREE!! YAY!
<snap-l> most of the tech folks I know don't care for certs, they care for experience.
<jrwren> if you're in an organization that treats certs like bars on a uniform, find a new organization.
<snap-l> jrwren: That too
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> I've met some folks that were certified, that knew their stuff
<jrwren> as have i.
<snap-l> and I met some that I'm pretty sure graduated because chance smiled on them
<snap-l> or they cheated.
<jrwren> i'd consider getting certs if i worked for a company that was awesome and people were awesome and the certs would benefit the company.
<shakes808> I know a guy in the Networking realm of things that have over 30 certs for HP / CISCO / .....
<shakes808> and in his realm they do make a difference
<shakes808> like you were saying
<jrwren> might be great to get some if you are going to start your own company so you are on track to become a partner company.
<Blazeix> the network-related realm is probably different, but for software i consider it a negative if a resume goes by listing certifications
<jrwren> and being a partner company does have some awesome benefits.
<snap-l> Proprietary stuff really loves their certs
<snap-l> (and yes, I'd consider RHEL to be somewhat proprietary)
<shakes808> My last job was a Microsoft partner and if I were to go for my Microsoft certs, they would reimburse me for them :D
<shakes808> Would have been meh
<shakes808> lol
<jrwren> RHEL is definitely proprietary.
<jrwren> RHEL really only exists to run Oracle and related software.
<jrwren> because its whan oracle support.s.
<snap-l> wonder how long that'll last. :)
<brousch> http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
<brousch> Click the Kick Ass in the upper right
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, that's awesome
<snap-l> Blazeix: I get bulk ammo too
<shakes808> That is cool, I have loaded that in with some stuff back in college and it never got wiped.
<shakes808> There is a javascript code you can put in your browser with the URL to put that on any site you want
<shakes808> I used MSN to show it off ;D
<shakes808> :D
<brousch> I should do a web2py talk at PyOhio. The ultimate troll
<brousch> Title it: "The best Python Web Framework" and then not mention any names in the synopsis
<snap-l> free RPG day is on June 16th
<snap-l> Good time to go to the local game store
<shakes808> ??? Free RPG Day ??? enlighten enlighten
<snap-l> http://www.freerpgday.com/
<snap-l> http://gobretail.com/freerpgday2012.php
<shakes808> interesting
<shakes808> I will look more into it when I am at CHC tonight :D
<brousch> RPGs? Do you worship Satan?!
<snap-l> only if he brings chips and pop
<shakes808> Mountain Dew and Cheetos
<brousch> Diet Squirt and Cheese popcorn
<snap-l> clech
<shakes808> OH GOD! Diet what and what?!!! NO NO NO NO
<brousch> http://www.thierryclech.com/ ?
<snap-l> brousch: PLease to be giving me a hint what that link is for?
<brousch> snap-l: the first hit on Google for "clech"
<Blazeix> man, i did not know that tentacles could do that.
<snap-l> brousch: Blech, rather
<snap-l> Blazeix: clech, not clench
<jrwren> i have a +3 ogre knife!
<shakes808> But you are in the bar getting drunk
<jrwren> good, if there are any girls there, I want to do them.
<jrwren> i know you said blue, but you have grey eyes.
<shakes808> has anyone seen the version from the game The Summoner
<snap-l> At what point did we do off the rails?
<shakes808> snap-l: since you brought up Free RPG Day!!!! of course
<shakes808> lol
<devinheitmueller> wait, somebody is giving out rocket propelled grenades?
<brousch> For free!
<shakes808> I'M THERE!!!!!
<jrwren> yes, the summoner video is hilarious
 * brousch wonders how many anti-terrorism triggers we just activated
<shakes808> ha ha
<devinheitmueller> brousch: six
<shakes808> knives, grenades
<shakes808> just need to say Obama or Bin Laden and we are set ;)
<devinheitmueller> Is it like candyman where he appears if you say it three times in front of a mirror?
<shakes808> Does anyone know of a program that can compare images / power point docs?
<brousch> compare?
<shakes808> yea
<nixternal> with ppt, isn't there a way to compare within the app itself?
<shakes808> not sure
<shakes808> will check
<nixternal> thought there was a way to "merge & compare"
<shakes808> interesting. Will look
<nixternal> you can use imagemagick to compare images in linux, as well as a ton of other apps out there
<shakes808> been looking and saw abonsoft
<shakes808> image compare
<nixternal> which there is a plugin for in gimp as a matter of fact
<shakes808> interesting
<shakes808> I found the "compare" in PPT, will have to test it out
<nixternal> i think you can compare with tineye as well. google for that one
<brousch> what do you mean by compare?
<shakes808> the compare in PPT is just a merge tool it seems
<snap-l> http://www.sheldoncomics.com/strips/sd120530.png
<brousch> hehe, i almost posted that
<brousch> i have found two good answers on yahoo answers, ever
<waldo323_> were they links to stack overflow?
<brousch> heh, no
<brousch> geez, these django projects get big
 * waldo323_ hands brousch bzip2
<snap-l> Man, this should not be this hard
<brousch> thanks
<brousch> FTR, the thanks was for waldo323_ for the bzip2, not for snap-l's hardness
<waldo323_> lol
<snap-l> iso: document management CMS that handles group permissions, and doesn't look like shit
<snap-l> must be customizble
<snap-l> Have tried Joomla's extensios, concrete5, and drupal
<waldo323_> are you dealing with one or trying to pick one?
<snap-l> trying to find one
<snap-l> closest we've come is drupal with CMIS backends (alfresco), but blergh
<waldo323_> i'd offer up plone as an option but there are marks against it too
<snap-l> y'know, at this point plone is as good as any suggestion
<Blazeix> i was looking for a decent document management software a while ago, but couldn't find one.
<Blazeix> alfresco was leading the pack
<brousch> snap-l: I saw one called EDMS
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what's leading now: drupal for front end shit, and alfresco for heavy lifting
<brousch> I've been meaning to look at it, so feel free to do so for me ;)
<brousch> http://rosarior.github.com/mayan/
<snap-l> Oh, it's Django
<snap-l> so it MUST be good
<brousch> Come on now. You've been looking at Joomla for Cchrist's sake
<brousch> Django is like a wet dream compared to what you mentioned :P
<jrwren> just buy sharepoint and get over it :p
<snap-l> Version 0.13 development cycle started.
<snap-l> I feel better already
<snap-l> jrwren: If it was competitive for what we were looking for, sure
<jrwren> isn't the one thing that it does reasonably well, document management?
<Blazeix> i haven't been very impressed by sharepoint 2010's document management
<jrwren> Blazeix: great to know.
<Blazeix> usability-wise, it's lacking, and doesn't have stuff like inline-previews
<shakes808> Talk at you all later. Have a good night. See whoever will be at CHC tonight.
<snap-l> WEll, and if I was looking just for doc management, KnowledgeTree or Alfresco would be our top picks
<Blazeix> i've heard it has a decent thick-client app you can install on windows, but i'm a bit leery of doing that
<snap-l> but I think we need some CMSey features to fit on top of it
<Blazeix> it's sounding like plone is your main choice. that has the whole 'platform' thing going on
<snap-l> Yeah, sadly.
<snap-l> We were pretty close with Joomla, but the extensions either used the Joomla security model (ugh), or only supported one group
<jrwren> Blazeix: a sharepoint thick client?  I've never heard of this for use. I've heard of it for development.
<greg-g> yuck, those last few Canonical blog posts to planet ubuntu were pathetic
<Blazeix> jrwren: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-workspace/
<Blazeix> a coworker was using the app, I think it was this.
<Blazeix> he'd get dropbox style change notifications whenever a document was modified
<rick_h_> Blazeix: https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Desktop_Dock_with_Pogo_Pin?id=galaxy_nexus_hspa_pogo_desk_dock&feature=accessories !!!
<Blazeix> ah, sweet. about time
<rick_h_> supposedly 4.0.4 will turn on the dock mode bits
<Blazeix> wait, hspa+ only
<Blazeix> isn't that not verizon?
<rick_h_> yea, but I've seen reports of it working with verizon
<rick_h_> but Google Play store only sells the hspa+ version of the phone
<snap-l> greg-g: Which ones? I've pretty much turned off the planet
<rick_h_> http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones-accessories/EDD-D1F8BEBSTD
<rick_h_> http://www.expansys-usa.com/ft.aspx?k=253487
<rick_h_> Blazeix: so yea hmmm, guess it's hard to say if it's software issues or not
<gamerchick02> all quiet in the chat, i see.
<gamerchick02> ColonelPanic001: howdy, long time no see!
<snap-l> gamerchick02: WE're at CHC now
<gamerchick02> ah. i'm in my pjs after cleaning. i need to get my butt back out there.
<gamerchick02> having fun?
<brousch> cleaning? you should be at CHC
<gamerchick02> the cleaning is done.
<gamerchick02> i should be there.
<gamerchick02> oh well...
<brousch> make it so!
<gamerchick02> pjs!
<brousch> so wear them
<gamerchick02> next week, depending on weather and work commitment. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-05-31
<brousch> omgwtfbbq i have 240+ MB of updates
<greg-g> snap-l: turns out I'm an idiot and subscribed to the canonical.com/rss.xml feed
<gamerchick02> OMG. that's a lot of updates.
<ColonelPanic001> gamerchick02: hi
<gamerchick02> how's it been? I've been busy and out of the room for too long.
<ColonelPanic001> okay
<ColonelPanic001> you?
<gamerchick02> good!
<gamerchick02> hanging out. been really busy
<gamerchick02> building a computer this weekend.
<derekv> ah damn its 9
<derekv> forgot
<derekv> about coffe
<rick_h_> doh
<jrwren> what kind of computer are you building?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/tutorial/1/
<gamerchick02> jrwren: i'm building a desktop. i5.
<gamerchick02> actually i'm thinking of heading to bed. as boring as that is.
<gamerchick02> i'll be on tomorrow night. see everyone tomorrow
<jrwren> ha.  hahahaha.  haha.  http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/23/the-canonoical-community-team/
<rick_h_> yea, that was funny. There was a funny photoshop of that as well
<shakes808> Morning all
<snap-l> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> MORNING
<brousch> snap-l: Do you have a minute to give me your opinion on my PyOhio talk ideas? I'd love to hear from the other Python users too - Blazeix, jrwren, shakes808?
<brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/678/
<shakes808> brousch: I am not a power user like the rest of them, but will give you my novice opinion
<brousch> All of the talks are suitable for beginners, so you are my target audience ;)
<Blazeix> i like the sound of #3, or if you chose something specific from the list in #2
<Blazeix> like focusing just on python in "inkscape and blender", or python on android
<brousch> Blazeix: yeah, i would have to focus on just a few
<brousch> or i would break #2 into 2 talks, maybe one each day
<brousch> You're not the only one who specifically mentioned Python on Android, so I guess there is more interest in that than I thought
<snap-l> I like #3, but #2 is also pretty interesting.
<snap-l> brousch: ^^
<shakes808> brousch: I like them all. I would be interested and enthralled by them all.
<shakes808> #1 - As a beginner and learning GIT, Pyramid, virtualenv and other utils, this would be a really good presentation along with the hosting and how to test and present it to the masses.
<shakes808> #2 - Like you just said, split it up into multiple talks. Could present the same program on a Linux box and then compare it to a Windows box ( I know there is a difference coming from Windows ). The other half (Embedded, Devices) would be interesting if you can show a working app on an Android device and Nintendo DS.
<shakes808> #3 - Building a Web Framework might be alittle over the head of a novice, I would think, but still intriguing.
<shakes808> Like I said, they all would keep my interest.
<brousch> OK, so if all 3 talks were at the same time, which would you go to?
<shakes808> brousch: hope that helps at all, coming from your "target audience"
<snap-l> brousch: none of them, because rick_h_'s talk would probably conflict. :)
<brousch> then i would have to cancel my talk to go to his ;)
<shakes808> At the point where I am at, I would probably go to #1's talk because that is what I am getting into currently
<snap-l> brousch: In all seriousness, I'd probably pick #2
<snap-l> I couldn't care less about Django
<rick_h_> gotta love that "Help me pick one pls"
<rick_h_> "#1 , #2, #3"
<snap-l> Tha lady or the tiger
<brousch> well I did ask for comments, too
<snap-l> Hm, haven't heard of kivy
<brousch> And the comments help me understand why folks would choose one over the other
<brousch> Like there is interest in #2, if I narrow the scope to certain programs
<brousch> Thanks guys
<brousch> Also, this is truly an historic day. I have now been called a "fucking cunt" for something I wrote in which I was not trolling. http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/05/09/ubuntu-12-04-splash-screen-lockup-with-livecd/#comment-543682386
<shakes808> brousch: looks like that was the one you were leaning towards lol
<snap-l> brousch: Sounds like someone is an asshole, and it isn't you.
<brousch> shakes808: Well I think they're all interesting, and I would have to learn or re-learn for each of them
<shakes808> gotcha
<brousch> snap-l: yeah, i got weeks of "thanks" and "good instructions" in the comments and then that one today
<shakes808> For #'s 1 and 2, I would say that #1 would be more relevant than #2. #2, to me, would be something you would present for a "Look at what Python can do and come join the movement towards python" whereas #1 is more of "You are all learning or looking to replace PHP and here are the steps you need to get that started"
<snap-l> brousch: I think it's the impatient guest user
<brousch> yeah, i'm pretty sure it is
<rick_h_> some days...I feel like a badass :)
<brousch> shakes808: Interesting view of #2. I am going more for "You all program with Python. Did you know you could also do these awesome things with it?" I'll have to make that more clear if I pick it.
<brousch> rick_h_: Come on now. You're a badass every day
<shakes808> brousch: I can see that point as well. I don't know how long it will take you to do what you need to do for your presentation BUT ... what if you work on both and then take a quick poll of your guests base :D
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> I have way too much other stuff. I'll be busting ass just to do one. Hopefully I won't be finishing it an hour before I present like last time ;)
<shakes808> HA HA, hopefully not
<brousch> That's probably how the infamous girl-pooped-on-by-horse gif got in there
<shakes808> ???? WHAT????
<brousch> You can watch it, if you have an hour to waste. There's not really much useful content http://blip.tv/pyohio/django-and-google-app-engine-why-i-m-using-flask-and-amazon-ec2-5437519
<snap-l> rick_h_: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pivrz/
<shakes808> brousch: Will watch it tonight
<brousch> shakes808: Your time would really be better spent watching any other PyCon/PyOhio/DjangoCon video ;)
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> I will have to search for Pyramid vids
<shakes808> is there a PyConMi?
<snap-l> Not yet.
<shakes808> There should be :D
<shakes808> I would go. Where are the PyCon's usually located? A place like a hotel or COBO or GM Towers?
<brousch> I think so
<shakes808> I see something about the Hyatt and some Convention Center. What would it take to get it to come to MI?
<brousch> A miracle
<brousch> It was in Chicago a few years ago
<shakes808> So it isn't always in the same place?
<shakes808> It is the traveling show of Python lol
<brousch> Right, it was in Chicago, then Atlanta, then California
<brousch> PyCon is the US Python conference. There are also smaller regional conferences like PyOhio, and big conferences in Europe
<shakes808> cool
<brousch> And Django has its own conferences in the US and abroad
<shakes808> I need to get on these happenings lol
<brousch> I've actually gotten a lot from the DjangoCon talks. It's really more Python web conference since 3/4 of the talks are not Django-specific or have a very small amount of Django-specific content
<brousch> http://pyvideo.org ;)
<brousch> I watch them while I'm riding the exercise bike
<shakes808> nice
<jrwren> brousch: I didn't like your question. You should know which topic you are most passionate about. If you don't, then you are ambivalent about all and shouldn't give a talk. If you do, then your choice is made.
<brousch> bah
<brousch> I am not "passionate" about any of them, but I like PyOhio and getting people to give talks is the hardest part of their job
<jrwren> when is submit deadline? I'll submit something.
<brousch> I think my question about which talk interests you most is legitimate
<brousch> Tomorrow
<brousch> Actually I would say I'm most passionate about Python on Android. I've given a couple of talks and spent quite a bit of free time messing with it
<jrwren> then I vote for that one.
<brousch> Excellent, thanks
<brousch> jrwren: I think you're right
<jrwren> about the android talk?
<jrwren> has anyone here installed android x86 on old laptop hardwrawe?
<brousch> I tried in a virtual machine. It worked, but I couldn't get Netflix running, which was my purpose in trying it
<brousch> Hm, I may have also gotten it installed on my EeePC 901, but I'm not sure
<brousch> jrwren: Yeah, I think you're right about the Python on Android talk. I would have the most fun putting it together, and there seems to be a decent amount of interest
<snap-l> brousch: You have my vote.
<snap-l> btw: Last month's phone bill with Ting.com: $27.05
<jrwren> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html  "but would they boot Mandriva? Arch? Mint? Mepis?"  amused at lack of ubuntu there.
<brousch> snap-l: One of the things I've done is run Django on Android. You'll love that
<jrwren> what is ting.com? my vonage bill is about $17/mo post fees adn taxes
<snap-l> brousch: That's serious chocolate in peanut butter there
<jrwren> brousch: what sql backend did you use?
<brousch> sqlite, but not sure how far along i got
<snap-l> jrwren: https://ting.com/why-ting/
<snap-l> It's mobile phone
<snap-l> They actually credited me for service I didn't use
<snap-l> $2 credit for messaging, $11 credit for data
<snap-l> And that was with me using it a bunch during Penguicon
<brousch> geez, nice
<snap-l> $38 was my initial bill (L data, M text messages, S minutes)
<snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/
 * snap-l is going to blog this. :)
<jrwren> snap-l: impressive
<snap-l> It's sprint, so take it for what it's worth
<snap-l> but my only big issues were with some drop out spots around Royal Oak, and the wifi on the phone is worse than the iPhone.
<snap-l> markedly worse.
<brousch> requires a specific phone?
<jrwren> sprint has good data don't they?
<snap-l> if I hold the phone in the living room, it'll disconnect.
<snap-l> jrwren: They're decent. 3G in Michigan
<snap-l> hoping the Nextel decommissioning will bring more LTE. :)
<snap-l> brousch: Requires you to buy their phone
<snap-l> but it's month-to-month. No contract
<brousch> ah, darn
<brousch> I love my new LG Spectrum
<jrwren> i think i'd like a mifi ting devices.
<brousch> mifi makes sense
<snap-l> They also support tethering on devices that support it.
<snap-l> no extra charge. Bits are bits.
<snap-l> Yeah, at the very least get a mifi device with them
<snap-l> Each phone is $6 charge
<snap-l> per month
<jrwren> so buy the mifi outright, then $6/mo to keep it on, and that is all until I use bits? that sounds great.
<snap-l> Nuts, they seem to not have the one feature phone I wanted to get my FIL
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> so if you have someone in your family that wants a phone for emergencies, it's $6 a month until they use it
<snap-l> then it's whatever they use, rounded down
<snap-l> (ie: if they use 3 minutes, it's the S plan)
<snap-l> and if they have to call a tow truck, and get stuck on the phone for 3 hours, it just bumps up to the next level
<snap-l> no penalties.
<The_Machine> hey guys
<The_Machine> quick question
<The_Machine> I've only used linux on a very limited basis - installing ubuntu/fedora for my desktop a couple of times
<The_Machine> i don't have a ton of time, but I would like to attempt to 'learn linux' again
<The_Machine> but i would like to understand it on a fundamental basis
<The_Machine> Have any suggestions as to a fun/friendly way for newb linux learning?
<MaskedDriver> The_Machine: install and break it over and over again ;)
<The_Machine> well, i'm a full time sys admin (windows) and a father of 4
<The_Machine> so I don't have a ton of hours
<_stink_> The_Machine: how do you want to end up using it?  as a crazy terminal guy, or a developer, or a plain old user?
<The_Machine> but enough to where I would like to try to learn stuff
<The_Machine> hmm
<The_Machine> i guess from the approach that I take with a windows sysadmin role
<The_Machine> I can pretty much fix anything, though i'm not a dev
<MaskedDriver> so GUI all the way? or are you a PowerShell guy?
<The_Machine> I mix that
<The_Machine> I know my way around the command line
<MaskedDriver> Then Linux won't be that difficult to get. Just need to learn the terminal syntax is all
<The_Machine> but from a structual point of view, filesystems, permissions
<MaskedDriver> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/index.html
<The_Machine> how to clone a system?  What's the best backup strategies?
<_stink_> ok, so a sysadmin approach.
<The_Machine> Is ubuntu a good place to start or could i benefit from another distro?
<The_Machine> I've used ubuntu for a long time, but at the same time, i haven't for about 3 years
<_stink_> really, any modern distro would be fine.
<The_Machine> i had it as my primary desktop for a year, but i didn't *learn* anything.
<_stink_> including ubuntu.
<MaskedDriver> Ubuntu does fine in the server realm. I am a CentOS server user myself, only using Ubuntu for desktop computing
<The_Machine> except barrel is a neat toy, etc.
<The_Machine> well, i wanted to start with the desktop again
<The_Machine> even sysadmins have to admin desktops, right?
<MaskedDriver> The_Machine: not if you have enough peons you don't ;)
<_stink_> my sense is that you would benefit most by starting with your regular old install, then picking some feature you want to try, and googling/asking here about it and plain old try it.
<The_Machine> hah
<The_Machine> i'm a janitor - no peons.
<MaskedDriver> My backups aren't typically "good" so I won't help you there.. I just tarball my entire install and move it to my redundant drive machine
<The_Machine> configure SANs, configure backups, configure switches, configure databases, configure mail servers, roll out OS deployments
<The_Machine> oh, and fix my mouse cursor.
<_stink_> like backups, or software firewalls, or whatever
<The_Machine> :P
<_stink_> hah
<MaskedDriver> Firewall: ClearOS ftw
<The_Machine> polish my iphone
<The_Machine> hah
<The_Machine> sorry
<The_Machine> anyway
<The_Machine> so i do everything
<_stink_> all i can say is that i "learned linux" by simply using it and trying stuff that i thought would be fun or good.
<MaskedDriver> http://www.clearfoundation.com/Software/overview.html
<The_Machine> I wonder if I should carry around two laptops :P
<MaskedDriver> _stink_: that's how I learned too... trial and error
<MaskedDriver> and lots and lots of Google
<_stink_> right
<The_Machine> yea, i mean..  i did that for years
<The_Machine> but i never learned a ton
<The_Machine> actually, it worked a little too well.
<_stink_> The_Machine: did you ask humans too?
<MaskedDriver> you probably didn't have a specific goal
<The_Machine> nothing ever broke
<_stink_> right
<The_Machine> so many damn things are web based now
<The_Machine> heh
<MaskedDriver> Picking up Linux just to learn it is a hard thing... but picking up linux to learn how to set up a secure and stable web server helps
<The_Machine> web servers are things i know least of..
<The_Machine> set up an apache server or two
<The_Machine> IIS all the way though, when it comes to production stuff
<The_Machine> (yes, ew?  Works fine for me...)
<MaskedDriver> icky
<The_Machine> i never got the hate for IIS
<The_Machine> if you know it, it works.
 * The_Machine has never had an issue.
<MaskedDriver> I'm a PHP developer, so IIS is the devil for guys like me
<The_Machine> heh
<The_Machine> i guess for devs i can see that
<The_Machine> but when it comes to just hosting stuff that is preconfigured, i've always found things just move smooth
<The_Machine> SharePoint or Exchange and those MS type technologies
<The_Machine> or ASP stuff
<MaskedDriver> depends.. if you're a .NET developer, IIS all the way. I have a windows 2008 R2 server that's actually a virtual host for my CentOS web server
<The_Machine> I just say OK and make it happen
 * The_Machine nods
<MaskedDriver> been dabbling in .NET so I have IIS set up on that
<MaskedDriver> but I'm so used to editing a simple conf file for my web server, that the gui tools confuse me
<MaskedDriver> and PowerShell documentation isn't the best
<The_Machine> i don't do a ton of powershell stuff
<MaskedDriver> I have a little cheat sheet book for it, but meh
<The_Machine> but it's pretty fun
<The_Machine> it will become more and more relevent if/when windows makes more server OSes
<The_Machine> i don't really know how to program anything.
<The_Machine> I guess I should learn.
<MaskedDriver> well, Server 2012 has the option to install PowerShell only... no GUI at all
 * The_Machine was cutting down a tree yesterday
<The_Machine> yep
<The_Machine> 2008 had that option
<The_Machine> where do you guys live?
<MaskedDriver> that install lasted me about 15 minutes and I cried and deleted the virutal machine I was testing it with
 * The_Machine guesses west side of the state
<The_Machine> lol
<MaskedDriver> I'm about 30 min north of Detroit.. Oakland County
<The_Machine> i'm in bloomfield
<The_Machine> same
<The_Machine> parents live in troy
<The_Machine> grew up in royal oak
<MaskedDriver> Waterford
 * The_Machine nods
<The_Machine> cool.  I'm right by the silverdome so not far.
<MaskedDriver> nice.. I just moved up here last June
<The_Machine> same here
<MaskedDriver> came from Ohio originally
<The_Machine> It was last september
<The_Machine> oh really?  that's funny, i know another linux developer who moved up here from ohio too
<The_Machine> and he works in troy
<MaskedDriver> not me lol
<The_Machine> yea, he does come on freenode though
<The_Machine> I gotta go - have to drive to my next appt
<MaskedDriver> I was a web developer at Ohio State for 2 years after graduating there, met a girl a year in from up here and ended up moving up
<The_Machine> (travelling consultant)
<MaskedDriver> The_Machine: good luck with your Linux persuits
<The_Machine> nice.  did you get married?
<MaskedDriver> not yet
<The_Machine> cool.  see ya around!
<MaskedDriver> later
<snap-l> Wow
<snap-l> Conversation
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: usually dead in here?
<snap-l> Sometimes, during the work-day
<MaskedDriver> aye
<MaskedDriver> first time in here in a long time
<snap-l> http://www.alderac.com/thunderstone/2012/05/26/download-thunderstone-print-and-play/ <- This is awesome
<MaskedDriver> lol
<rick_h_> feeling less badass, I didn't get anything to/back from space today: http://goo.gl/OC5aS
<snap-l> rick_h_: You're still a badass
<snap-l> though a badass that uses UPS to get things to and from space. :)
<jrwren> I love this. http://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/djangos-cbvs-were-a-mistake/
<jrwren> lol @ you guys calling Server Core "PowerShell only"
<MaskedDriver> you have to use PowerShell to use anything. It's a super dumbed-down UI
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> its called "Server Core"
<MaskedDriver> ah
<MaskedDriver> gettin all technicall on us I see
<MaskedDriver> with one l
<jrwren> proper vocabulary is important.
<MaskedDriver> so I've heard
<jrwren> otherwise, I say "bad" and you think it is good like Michael Jackson's bad, but I meant bad like COPS and bad boys bad.
<MaskedDriver> or somebody who is just bad at everything
<MaskedDriver> but what you're arguing is context, not vocabulary
<jrwren> semantics
<jrwren> and semantics are important
<MaskedDriver> precisely
<MaskedDriver> what I've been saying all along ;)
<snap-l> https://grepular.com/Protecting_Your_GNU_Linux_System_from_Dropbox
<snap-l> Which should read: X will destroy us all!
<snap-l> Also, apparently I can't go a month without some BS speculation on Valve / Steam for Linux
<Blazeix> ooh, valve is finally releasing it, right?
<snap-l> No, apparently they hired someone
<snap-l> who apparently has done Linuxy things in the past
<Blazeix> i hear they're releasing it july 17th
<snap-l> which clearly suggests they're working on it
<snap-l> Blazeix: I hear they're releasing it when the Mayan calendar runs out
<snap-l> and it'll have every Valve game on it, day of release.
<snap-l> and then the world will end.
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: sounds pretty amazing to me :p
<Blazeix> worth it
<nixternal> some scientists say the mayan calendar already ran out, and if that is the case, well then Valve has yet another late release
<MaskedDriver> one last hoo-rah
<brousch> snap-l: I would like to subscribe to your newsletter
<snap-l> nixternal: I thought they found a memo on the Mayan Calendar
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: it was a conf file
<nixternal> yeah, supposedly the mayans invented GTD, not Allen
<snap-l> "Dear future mayans: should this calendar run out, please order a replacement supply at the following address"
<nixternal> sadly enough, it was a local staples address
<nixternal> interesting
<snap-l> nixternal: Nah, the mayans invented Steven Covey
<snap-l> The 7 habits of effective Mayan
<snap-l> and the refillable planner
<snap-l> Remember, the A priority is next to godliness.
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: sounds familiar
<snap-l> Sharpen the saw, because a dull saw makes a really bad sacrifice
<snap-l> http://archive.org/details/audio_podcast <- Yay, OMC is on the front page. :)
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> 25 more to 100 items. :)
<brousch> You da man!
<greg-g> snap-l: nice
<snap-l> thanks. :)
<brousch> rick_h_ is my idol. I am on steroids for some allergy thing now.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> how many mg did they put you on?
<shakes808> have a good one all
<brousch> 50
<rick_h_> brousch: ooh, that's a good dose
<brousch> I am afraid I will rage out and beat my family
<rick_h_> I've gone from 10-60
<rick_h_> when it gets up there it's sucky
<brousch> I've never had steroids before
<brousch> What sucks about it?
<_stink_> you've never seen the public service commercial about what happpens to the football and basketball if you take steroids?
<brousch> I have not
<_stink_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s23ccb1DWV4
<_stink_> en espanol
<brousch> gee, thanks
<_stink_> sure.
<snap-l> http://relapserecords.bandcamp.com/
<brousch> Submitted my talk for PyOhio
<rick_h_> brousch: yay!
<brousch> Now I get to make 10,000 screenshots from android
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-01
<shakes808> What was that dropbox link from earlier?
<Blazeix> shakes808: https://grepular.com/Protecting_Your_GNU_Linux_System_from_Dropbox
<shakes808> thank you
<brousch> A python.org membership reminder just emailled my password to me in plain text
<shakes808> good morning
<brousch> snap-l: do you have blender installed?
<brousch> My mind was blown last night
<snap-l> Yeah, I've installed it recently.
<snap-l> It's changed a LOT with 2.5+
<brousch> Have you hovered over any button/sliders/widget?
<brousch> And pull down the python console
<snap-l> unfortunately I'm on 2.49 on this machine
<snap-l> but I have seen 2.5+ on my laptop
<snap-l> and yeah, it's freaking amazing
<snap-l> it's like a while new program
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> It shows you the Python method that will be called when you click the widget
<snap-l> brousch: That I didn't know
<brousch> And then the console shows you everything that you've done
<snap-l> Very cool
<brousch> I want that everywhere!
<snap-l> brousch: WTF is this tweet
<brousch> Someone's presentation on why you don't need design patterns
<brousch> in Python
<snap-l> Yeah, I heard about that.
<snap-l> Still want to know the lingo so I can sound smart
<snap-l> Oh, yeah, that's a defibrillator pattern
<brousch> Is that an actual design pattern?
<shakes808> So off topic for a second: I was just in Google Play looking at the music selection. I went under Metal and guess what was #1 for Top Albums?
<snap-l> Warrant?
<snap-l> Oh, wait, I've got this one
<snap-l> Evanescence
<snap-l> Guns and Roses
<snap-l> Five Finger Death Punch
<shakes808> lol Evanescence and G'n'R were in there4
<shakes808> NOPE
<shakes808> BON JOVI
<snap-l> Not on my radar
<shakes808> Since when is Bon f'n Jovi Metal?
<snap-l> OOh, not songs
<brousch> Did one of them die?
<snap-l> Bon Jovi greatest hits, eh?
<shakes808> no albums
<shakes808> yea
<snap-l> I got no beef with BonJovi. It got me to the good stuff
<brousch> You sicken me
<snap-l> You need Bon Jovi to pay for the artists that aren't going to break 1m records.
<shakes808> lol and others in "METAL" are Chevelle, Alice In Chains, Three Days Grace, Insane Clown Posse, Seether, Alter Bridge .... These are not metal lol
<snap-l> At least under the old model
<shakes808> I don't have a problem with some Bon Jovi, he is just not "Metal"
<snap-l> shakes808: You must have a slightly different screen
<snap-l> mine has cannibal corpse as an artist spotlight
<snap-l> shakes808: Hate to break it to you, but Bon Jovi is metal
<snap-l> false metal, maybe
<shakes808> I don't see any CC on my screen
<snap-l> shakes808: You need to do more youtube listening. ;)
<shakes808> I seen some Marilyn, Five Finger, ?Queens of the Stone Age?, Slash, G'n'R as the top 6
<shakes808> HA HA
<snap-l> Or do a podcst. :)
<shakes808> I listen to your podcast every now and again, when I remember lol
<snap-l> There's a new episode out now.
<snap-l> Instrumetalcast #6
<shakes808> Where is the spotlight section that you speak of?
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/05/31/open-metalcast-instrumetalcast-6-tragedy-of-slow-and-low/
<snap-l> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9058804/Screenshot.png
<snap-l> shakes808: ^
<shakes808> That isn't on my screens
<shakes808> I don't see that layout anywhere
<snap-l> Maybe I have it because fo clean living or something :)
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> interesting, you are on the same network and Google Play should be the same across the board, wonder why they are different?
<snap-l> Do you have flash blocking? :)
<shakes808> Not that I am aware of
<shakes808> The way I am seeing it now is how I have always seen Google Play. Rooted or not.
<shakes808> Flash is working on my phone, just loaded up www.realmofthemadgod.com
<shakes808> and that is all flash
<snap-l> I'm using the website. That's why. :)
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> oh, i am on the app
<brousch> More interesting than the title implies: https://grepular.com/Protecting_Your_GNU_Linux_System_from_Dropbox
<snap-l> brousch: I posted that yesterday.
<snap-l> I think the title is misleading, but it's interesting to see what can be done to help isolate a process
<brousch> Right
<brousch> I skipped it the first 2 times I saw it because I figured it was just paranoid crap
<nullspace> why does it seem like everyday on 12.04 there is a completely new batch of updates...
<rick_h_> because you've subscribed to a daily ppa?
<nullspace> I have extras.ubuntu.com but I don't think that's a ppa
<rick_h_> just guessing/tossing it out there
<nullspace> would make sense
<rick_h_> I know between the FF nightly and Chrome dev I tend to get updates very often
<brousch> nullspace: I have a random spattering of updates every day
<brousch> It seems like they're rarely the same things being updated
<nullspace> yeah
<greg-g> I'm having the weirdest internet experiences in MPLS
<greg-g> last night I couldn't connect to FB (I know I know, I haven't logged in for months, but I was just getting a couple people's emails - old friends from college I'm going to meet up with tonight)
<brousch> MPLS?
<greg-g> and now, Google Calendar isn't loading. But everything else (all websites I try and low level ping/ssh are fine)
<greg-g> Minneapolis, MN
<brousch> Could it be a keyword filter?
<greg-g> it'd be hilarious
<brousch> You could have cuss words in your calendar titles
<greg-g> I wouldn't put it past my buddy, but I'm now at a coffee shop
<greg-g> Yeah, Minneasotans don't cuss
<brousch> Sure they do, gosh darn it
<MaskedDriver> facebook was having issues for everyone last night I believe
<greg-g> MaskedDriver: wow, did the world explode and I didn't notice?
<MaskedDriver> it would appear so
 * MaskedDriver enjoys trolling on Facebook
<greg-g> weird, google.com isn't loading over http[s]
<MaskedDriver> Someone puts a post or something that isn't funny or sad or something, then just comment with "lol"
<MaskedDriver> greg-g: working for me
<greg-g> this is weird
<MaskedDriver> which browser? could be browser-specific
<MaskedDriver> or did your browser's entire https protocol break?
<brousch> MitM
<brousch> You been h4x0rd!
<MaskedDriver> RUN
<brousch> Mail me your laptop. I'll fix it for you
<greg-g> Fx Nightly and hmmm, https for our internal CC wiki isn't responding
<greg-g> I am being haxored
<greg-g> "SSL received a record that exceeded the maximum permissible length."
<snap-l> greg-g: Try ssh tunneling to a known good machine
<snap-l> like your colo or something
<snap-l> might be some wonkiness along your router-path
<greg-g> snap-l: Chromium doesn't complain about SSL and connects to those sites. i blame Fx Nightly doing something crazy
<snap-l> greg-g: And reason +1 why I don't follow nightlies. :)
<snap-l> save for Banshee
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> Fx nightly was doing great for a while, just the past 2 weeks have been rough
<snap-l> Blazeix: Hmm, I think there's some wonkiness with the MUG theme
<snap-l> http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm/event/ical&reset=1&list=1
<snap-l> Trying to get the ical list from civicrm, but the theme wants to fire.
<snap-l> Wondering if that's a bug with civicrm or WP
<MaskedDriver> where are these mug meetings?
<MaskedDriver> nvm.. I can read
<snap-l> http://www.mug.org/meetings/
<snap-l> ;)
<MaskedDriver> lol yeah.. I figured it out. I'm good like that
<MaskedDriver> Farmington Hills not to far from me
<snap-l> All are welcome, admission is free.
<MaskedDriver> I'll probably stop by sometime in the next few months. June is a crazy month for me, unfortunately
<snap-l> np
<MaskedDriver> new to MI (well, a year) and haven't gotten involved in any FOSS groups yet
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: There's a few you should attend
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Ubuntu MI Loco (you're soaking in it)
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: MUG (You're aware of it)
<devinheitmueller> MaskedDriver: I would definitely encourage it.  I moved to Detroit for a year and met lots of great people at MUG.
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Coffee House Coders (should you be of a developer-bent)
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: aye... I was the head of the Columbus, OH Really Local Community for about a year
<MaskedDriver> when paultag headed up the LoCo
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Were you at Ohio Linuxfest?
<snap-l> Yeah, I know paultag
<MaskedDriver> not the last couple years. conflicted with my yearly Mackinac trip
<MaskedDriver> thinking about attending this year though since it's later in the month
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Hah, too funny
<snap-l> we made the trip down, and you made the trip way way up
<MaskedDriver> :)
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: yeah. you heading down to OLF this year?
<snap-l> planning on it
<MaskedDriver> not sure who's in charge of the Ubuntu booth this year
<MaskedDriver> haven't talked to the OH group for about a year
<snap-l> Yeah, we did a combined Lococast / ubuntu MI booth
<snap-l> we being rick_h_ and I
<MaskedDriver> I'm assuming jacob will have at least some sort of part in the planning of that. I'd assume gilbert will do some stuff too
<rick_h_> I'm going to be in VA for OLF this year
<rick_h_> snap-l: ^
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's nowhere near OLF
<snap-l> will be a hell of a trek to the convention center. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, a few states over
<snap-l> rick_h_: But I think you'll manage.
<rick_h_> yea, might just run over for dinner
<MaskedDriver> funny.. they change the dates that work better for me, but screw over other people
<MaskedDriver> can't please everybody all the time
<rick_h_> well, we moved our annual VA trip down into the fall to be cooler this year (well later summer I guess not sure)
<snap-l> Yeah, that's the nature of the beast.
<snap-l> rick_h_: You do realize by doing that, Mother Nature will make it 90 with 90% humidity
<snap-l> just for you.
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: aye.. I'm just hoping Mackinac Island will be as nice as it was last year.. 70-80 degrees
<rick_h_> snap-l: well last year it was 95% with 90% humidity
<rick_h_> sorry, 95degrees with 90% humidity
<snap-l> yeah, gathered. :)
<rick_h_> I don't want to drive to VA for the week and be able to let the boy outside for fear he'll kill himself
<rick_h_> last year sucked
<MaskedDriver> makes all the walking and biking far more bareable than the 50-60 we had the previous couple years
<rick_h_> we had to kill days of stuff due to heat, so July4 is no longer the target VA date
<brousch> MaskedDriver: You go to Mackinac every year?
<MaskedDriver> brousch: I do. For the 8-mile race thing they have every September
<MaskedDriver> my fat @$$ doesn't run but my g/f's brother and mom do
<MaskedDriver> The_Machine: you end up toying around with any Distros yet?
<The_Machine> not yet.
<MaskedDriver> The_Machine: :(
<The_Machine> Went to carnival, watched 2 episodes of Mad Men with the wife, slept, started work
<MaskedDriver> gotcha
<The_Machine> i'm realizing though, the idea of putting ubuntu as my primary laptop OS is not the best
<MaskedDriver> oh?
<The_Machine> as I need to be able to bring up certain windows apps right away
<The_Machine> for instance, vsphere client
<The_Machine> to administer esxi/vcenter hosts
<The_Machine> I could do it in a VM
<rick_h_> RDS or virtual machine
<The_Machine> but if my desktop OS someone is misbehaving
<The_Machine> somehow
<rick_h_> setup a machine with that stuff and remote desktop into it
<The_Machine> I travel all around (consulting)
<MaskedDriver> rick_h_: this
<The_Machine> so unless I carry two laptops, it's not likely
<The_Machine> I could make an ubuntu VM, but it isn't really immersion
<The_Machine> damn, I need a clone.
<The_Machine> (of myself)
<MaskedDriver> Dual-boot?
<MaskedDriver> Ubuntu when you don't need Windows
<The_Machine> could dual boot.  that's the next option.
<The_Machine> Actually
<The_Machine> windows when I can't do what I need in ubuntu
<MaskedDriver> I tri-boot my laptop
<The_Machine> i would use ubuntu all of the time
<MaskedDriver> Ubuntu, Win 7, Win 8
<The_Machine> my HDD is small though
<The_Machine> see, i considered putting the release preview of 8 on
<The_Machine> but I think i might run into just as many problems as with ubuntu
<The_Machine> with certain app incompatabilities
<The_Machine> (like, Sonicwall VPN client, or..  whatever)
<The_Machine> Citrix clients, vsphere clients
<The_Machine> hehe
<MaskedDriver> I used Win8 as my daily driver on my gaming machine until I got my Naga 2012 Edition mouse and their synapse client didn't work
<MaskedDriver> had to go back to Win7
<brousch> You can usually find an open source app that does the same things as a closed source application, which is preferable to running under wine when you can
<The_Machine> brousch, not with this kind of stuff
<The_Machine> google "vsphere client esxi 4.1 linux" and you'll see what i mean.
<brousch> Yeah, sounds like you're locked into a lot of Windows-only programs
<The_Machine> everyone just bitches about it
 * The_Machine nods
<brousch> Fix that first ;)
<The_Machine> paycheck or ubuntu, let's see..  HMMM..
<brousch> s/or/and/
<The_Machine> i hate win fanboys
<The_Machine> but that's what my boss is
<The_Machine> and he'll never change.
<The_Machine> (though, i did get him to start using ESX and iphone) :P
<The_Machine> windows mobile 6.  disgusting.
<brousch> Find a new boss!
<The_Machine> I'm going to soon enough.
<The_Machine> actually
<The_Machine> so I'm assuming you guys work in IT?
<The_Machine> are you specialized or an "everything" janitor like me?
<The_Machine> my resume has been kind of tricky
<brousch> I'm a generalist
<The_Machine> same
<brousch> Where are you located?
<The_Machine> how the hell do you advertise that on your resume though?
<The_Machine> Bloomfield Twp
<brousch> List all the things that entails, emphasizing the most relevant skills for whatever job you're apply for
<The_Machine> so you tailor it?
<The_Machine> what about your "dice.com" resume or whatever you would call it?
<The_Machine> the general one that's up there?
<brousch> I haven't had a resume in 12 years, but I would tailor it
<The_Machine> I haven't updated mine since this new job
<The_Machine> but I don't feel like I can brag about any particular skills
<The_Machine> but I can brag about being a generalist?
<brousch> I guess I would make the Dice one non-tailored, so it would be really long
<The_Machine> (does that make sense?)
<brousch> Yes
<The_Machine> I can say I know exchange, sql, filesystems, permissions, networking, filrewalls, routers, vpns, ..  the list would go on for hours
<The_Machine> i could just keep typing technologies I can implement
<The_Machine> but i'm not a *master* at them necessarily
<brousch> Very good skillset
<The_Machine> like a specialized Exchange Admin who can deploy 10,000 mailboxes without some heavy learning
<brousch> For the right kind of company
<The_Machine> oh yea
<brousch> Those are the jobs you should look for
<The_Machine> and I could probably run about 20 small businesses all on my own
<The_Machine> as long as I had a gimp to be my hands once in a while
<brousch> That's another good route
<The_Machine> That's essentially what I do now, but for someone else
<The_Machine> and i don't have to deal with a lot of the business BS
<brousch> I know several self-employed people in GR who are the IT guy for many companies
<The_Machine> so far i've liked it
<The_Machine> (not having to deal with many business aspects..  non paying customers, etc)
 * The_Machine nods
<The_Machine> it's a decent living, and i'll probably be able to do it for the next 20 years
<The_Machine> until the cloud and cell devices are so ubiquitous
<The_Machine> that everything has redundant connections to multiple towers
<brousch> heh, interesting you bring that up
<The_Machine> and nothing is hosted on a client
<The_Machine> so then the world is truly "cloud ready"
<brousch> https://plus.google.com/110804743960557196086/posts/SWD2tN17FHL
<The_Machine> because Chrome OS is retarded at this point.
<brousch> ChromeOS is very nice for my kid!
<The_Machine> sure thing
<The_Machine> i'm talking 100+ employee companies
<The_Machine> all relying on a T1 because they're locked into a 3 year contract
<The_Machine> because of a decision by "purchasing" because it seemed like a good idea at the time
<The_Machine> etc.
<The_Machine> once LTE really takes off
<The_Machine> and you can get dual radios in devices
<The_Machine> then a 2 x 21 mbps connection to two different carriers
<The_Machine> and IPV6
<The_Machine> can connect to an app in the cloud..  with redundnacy
<brousch> We have Comcast business. It's hella fast and has been reliable
<The_Machine> yea, most of my clients do too
<The_Machine> and I can't say better things
<The_Machine> oh, hey
<The_Machine> are you getting bouncebacks when you send to @hotmail.com right now?
<The_Machine> (assuming that you are using your comcast connection for mail)
<The_Machine> the comcast IP block is being blacklisted by hotmail right now in this region
<brousch> People still use hotmail?
<The_Machine> lots of people, unfortunately
<brousch> We use Google Apps
<snap-l> Yes, my mom uses hotmail
<snap-l> even though she hates it
<brousch> Yo mama so n00b she still use Hotmail!
<brousch> Sorry
<snap-l> brousch: my momma so newb she doesn't use snopes
<greg-g> apropos to this conversation:
<greg-g> Moglen, claims that Facebookâs days as a dominant platform are numbered, because we will soon have decentralized social platforms, based on projects such as FreedomBox, users will operate their own federated platforms and form collective social platforms based on their own hardware, retain control of their own data, etc.
<greg-g> I can understand and share Moglenâs enthusiasm for such a vision, however this is not the observable history of our communications platforms, not the obvious direction they seem to be headed, and there is no clear reason to believe this will change.
<greg-g> The trajectory that Moglen is using has centralized social media as the starting point and distributed social media as the place we are moving toward. But in actual fact, distributed social media is where we started, and centralized platforms are where we have arrived.
<greg-g> http://www.dmytri.info/privacy-moglen-ioerror-rp12/
<brousch> I agree with the anti-Moglen
<snap-l> sent me a list of forwards that was a veritable clusterbleep of misinformation
<brousch> Very, very few people want to run their own social network infrastructure
<greg-g> I'm a fan of moglen, but the point this guy rasises (we're going decentralized to centralized) is true, and scary.
<snap-l> greg-g: Facebook will die off soon, but it won't be because of the Freedombox, no matter how successful
<The_Machine> google apps is a wise choice
<The_Machine> do you pay for the premium?
<greg-g> never said it would :)
<snap-l> greg-g: but yes, we're moving back to the mainframe
<snap-l> all of the work that the PC revolution did is being pulled apart
<snap-l> software as service, etc.
<The_Machine> I'll never give up my HDD
<The_Machine> fuck that
<The_Machine> i don't want anyone else owning my data
<snap-l> The_Machine: You won't have to, but you won't have much to do with it
<The_Machine> except freenode :P  you can have my speech, freenode.
<snap-l> your bank is SaaS
<snap-l> your e-mail will be SaaS
<snap-l> your friends will be SaaS
<The_Machine> I won't have much to say
<The_Machine> I won't have many friends, i guess
<The_Machine> and my bank will have to take some gold deposits.
<snap-l> The_Machine: Good luck with that. :)
<The_Machine> cause I'm starting to see the light when it comes to ditching my currency
<The_Machine> anyway
<The_Machine> Think about this
<The_Machine> MS windows phone campaign was kind of a "ditch technology" pitch
<greg-g> uh oh
<snap-l> The_Machine: I'm very amused when people start talking about gold. :)
<greg-g> oh, I thought it was going to be a gold standard conversation :)
<greg-g> I had a long debate with my buddy last night re monetary policy
<The_Machine> because they see that there's a HUGE segment of people who really don't want to wrap themselves up in their phones
<The_Machine> and the internet, and constantly be connected
<The_Machine> if anything, there's going to be a large segment that outright refuses to
<greg-g> (this is the @pete from identi.ca, for those that are subjected to our long identi.ca conversations)
<The_Machine> I'm not a technophobe by any means, if anything..  i would consider myself somewhat bleeding edge
<The_Machine> if not for anything because i'm a tech news junkie
<The_Machine> (too broke to be an early adopter)
<The_Machine> and a sysadmin, etc.
<snap-l> The_Machine: It amuses me too when people say they're not going to use a service
<The_Machine> but I don't see the benefit of SaaS and I'll actively give my business to places that maintain a B&M presence
<The_Machine> snap-l, not if there's competition offering something else
<snap-l> because it's like being the owner of the first phone
<snap-l> if there's nobody to call, it's rather pointless
<The_Machine> hmm
<snap-l> and if everyone else uses something else, you're stuck
<The_Machine> that' sa little too utility for the analogy though
<The_Machine> nope - i don't have to use facebook
<jrwren> The_Machine: where are you at? are you interested in security?
<The_Machine> no matter how many people think it's the bees knees
<snap-l> The_Machine: You're right. You don't. I don't.
<The_Machine> jrwren, I've always been security minded..  but I'm not really a coder.
<snap-l> but if people continue to use it, and Facebook doesn't offer interoperability, then you're outside of the conversation htere.
<The_Machine> I live in Bloomfield Twp, and I travel all over tri county doing onsite and remote sys admin
<jrwren> we need QA people too.
<The_Machine> jrwren, right now i'm kind of a generalist - wouldn't mind being security-focused though.  I guess it depends on what it entails.
<The_Machine> brb, have to change some DNS records
<snap-l> My biggest gripe is we have protocols for forums (usenet) but we've managed to kill them off
<snap-l> I really wish more forums used usenet.
<snap-l> (personal beef)
<The_Machine> sad that you have to pay for usenet
<The_Machine> i leeched off of an employers account fo ra long time, then they closed it
<The_Machine> doh.
<snap-l> Sad that it's to the point where you have to pay for usenet.
<The_Machine> yep
<snap-l> Google Groups is a poor substitute
<MaskedDriver> usenet can be hosted. depending on the scale of the forums, they could easily be managed by a small group of people
<The_Machine> heh, i love nzbs :P
<The_Machine> at least over torrents
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: Yeah, but it's finding someone that'l feed you.
<brousch> Same with email. Used to be everyone had their own email server, now most people use Hotmail|Yahoo|Gmail
<snap-l> I still host my own
<The_Machine> brousch, well when providers block port 25..
<brousch> Most people
<The_Machine> and make you have workarounds
<The_Machine> also, hosting usually means licensing
<greg-g> even CC uses gmail hosted email :(
<The_Machine> means spam filtering
<The_Machine> means security and accounts and admin
<MaskedDriver> The_Machine: 90% of them will open if you call in
<The_Machine> MaskedDriver, i did not know that.
<brousch> The_Machine: We pay for the Google Apps business version. We have a few people over the ~7GB email limit of the free version
<MaskedDriver> I have Uverse and Port 25 was closed. They seemed satisfied that I knew what Port 25 was in general. Didn't ask too many questions
<MaskedDriver> The_Machine: your argument on licensing assumes you're using Exchange :) You can use something like Postfix for mail
<brousch> Spam filtering was my biggest PITA when we hosted our own email
<MaskedDriver> brousch: aye
<nullspace> once you get a Postfix server running its a dream but the trick is to get one up and configed correctly
<jrwren> The_Machine: you can get free usenet on ipv6.
<MaskedDriver> nullspace: it's not THAT difficult lol
<jrwren> and if you don't have native ipv6, use tunnelbroker
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: link?
<nullspace> MaskedDriver: no not difficult, tedeious I'd think so
<MaskedDriver> nullspace: aye, if you want it secure
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: he.net
<nullspace> and who wouldn't
<MaskedDriver> nullspace: I can think of some people
<nullspace> apprently they care if email gets logged as spam or not
<The_Machine> I was talking about the "most people" comment though
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: need to have an IPv6 enabled host or router though
<The_Machine> when it comes to licensing, etc.
<The_Machine> and now that google does that for free..  meh
<The_Machine> but I can't say I'm hyped up about them having access to all data
<The_Machine> cause you know that the NSA or whoever has access to all of that too
<The_Machine> FBI, etc.
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: every OS supports ipv6 these days.
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: guess it does say "or"
<MaskedDriver> was thinking about my router. I know it doesn't support it
<jrwren> go http://tunnelbroker.net/ and follow the  guides.
<MaskedDriver> yeah I'm there, looking at it
<jrwren> yeah, its not easy to get your whole lan on. it is easy to get a single host on.
<MaskedDriver> boss probably wouldn't like me messing with my work rig, so I'll wait til I get home to play around
<MaskedDriver> assuming this will break the crap out of my domain setup though
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: google "ipv6 usenet" and there are even blog posts that talk about the nbz you mentioned.
<jrwren> I don't know about nbz
<jrwren> why would ipv6 break your domain setup?
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: that was The_Machine
<MaskedDriver> communicating across the domain
<jrwren> MaskedDriver: ah, sorry.
<jrwren> The_Machine: ^^^
<jrwren> I don't even know what that means.
<jrwren> what does "communicating across the domain " mean?
<MaskedDriver> jrwren: when I log in to my computer, it communicates with 192.168.1.77
<MaskedDriver> if I'm using ipv6 it'll think, "wtf is this?"
<MaskedDriver> and I can't log in
<jrwren> that is ipv4 and has nothing to do with ipv6.
<jrwren> you run dual stack.
<jrwren> it won't effect anything.
<MaskedDriver> assumign I do it correctly lol
<jrwren> simply don't touch your ipv4 config
<MaskedDriver> <nods>
 * MaskedDriver is a developer, not a network admin
<MaskedDriver> I don't know much about ipv6
<jrwren> just talking about usenet and its accessibility. ipv6 makes it accessible
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> regardless, it's not that expensive
<MaskedDriver> I move around different services regularly, taking advantage of any promotions they have going on
<jrwren> ha!
<The_Machine> talk to you guys later..  forgot I have an appointment!
<brousch> snap-l: Did you submit your PyGame talk to PyOhio yet?
<snap-l> brousch: No, I didn't.
<brousch> Booooooo
<snap-l> got a few things to take care of before then, and not sure I want to split my time that way.
<greg-g> splitting time? Isn't that the modus operandi?
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> SPLIT IT NOW
<rick_h_> we shold tinker with this some time: https://dev.launchpad.net/yellow/Termbeamer
<snap-l> That's pretty snazzy.
 * nullspace is a meat popcicle 
<MaskedDriver> not random at all
<snap-l> And there is the random thought for the day.
<snap-l> Join us tomorrow for another nullspace random thought
 * brousch thinks nullspace is either watching The Fifth Element or has his junk stuck in the freezer door
<nullspace> oh and IRC is full of contextually related sentances and full fleshed out segways?
<nullspace> I'd argue the whole of IRC is a a few conversations within a vast field of random thoughts
<rick_h_> I'd say it's a noodle system. You throw the thought/link at the wall and see if it strikes up a conversation
<snap-l> nullspace: Right, but eventually it becomes a tapestry when we give it some context.
<rick_h_> I think we've estalished meat popsicles don't really get the communication juices flowing
<snap-l> https://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sugexp=chrome,mod=5&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=meat+popsicle
<rick_h_> yea, that didn't help
<jjesse> wow so i apparently i turned off safe search at one time
<MaskedDriver> probably ruined my day in fact
<jjesse> that is the wrong query to put into google
<jjesse> at work
<MaskedDriver> jjesse: at anywhere
<rick_h_> though I am curious about the next 10 ads snap-l gets from google
<snap-l> jjesse: You're welcome. :)
<jjesse> thanks :)  why am i getting an email from Human Resources :)
<snap-l> jjesse: That's what safe search moderate is for. :)
<snap-l> and separate browsers. :)
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: doesn't change the fact that it's querying "meat popsicle"
<snap-l> and VMs
<MaskedDriver> hr might have a question about that... in general
<MaskedDriver> VMs don't trick the smart sysadmin
<snap-l> MaskedDriver: No, but SSH tunnels might put them off the scent.
<snap-l> Thank god for SSH connectivity at work.
<MaskedDriver> snap-l: aye
<MaskedDriver> you assume, as well, that everyone has the ability to install software to allow them to do such things
<MaskedDriver> group policy ftw
<snap-l> I don't care about everyone else. I care that I have SSH connectivity
<MaskedDriver> :)
<snap-l> You're all very nice people, but you're all just speedbumps if it means I can get away from an oncoming bus. ;)
<snap-l> (note: I'm motly kidding)
<nullspace> rick_h_: the scroll back speaks otherwise about communication juices flowing, in more ways than one, guh-rooosss
<jrwren> nullspace: lol @ meat popcicle
<jrwren> termbeamer jus tautomates what you can do manually with tmux already?
<snap-l> jrwren: Looks that way
<rick_h_> Blazeix: so dock came in
<rick_h_> Blazeix: verdict is that it kind of fits, have to hold down to hit contacts for charging, no audio out
<rick_h_> will hope that 4.0.4 helps with some of it, I'm wondering if the larger battery is giving me grief. I'll test the wife's stock phone tonight
<rick_h_> Blazeix: so no better fit with the wife's phone
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> So, it's useless then?
<Blazeix> bummer, are you going to return it?
<rick_h_> I'm not sure I can to the google play store.
<rick_h_> I think I'll wait a few and see if the update comes
<rick_h_> if I can use it for playing podcasts/weather/etc display on the desk I'll keep it, but not sure yet
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-02
<derekv> what, is the very best thing to eat
<snap-l> meat posicles
<snap-l> popsicles, rather
<derekv> i could go for plate of bacon
<derekv> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/rachael-ray/late-night-bacon-recipe/index.html this is a good one
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-06-03
<snap-l> Quiet dat
<snap-l> day
<jrwren> mmm bacon
<brousch> Randall Schwartz just said, "I'm something of a polyglot programmer. I've used 45 programming languages over the years, but I haven't been able to wrap my head around Python or Ruby"
<brousch> wtf
<snap-l> btw: meeting tonight
<gamerchick02> anyone play with that new Dell XPS ultrabook yet?
<gamerchick02> i took a gander at it at BB today. holy cow, it's a nice computer.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: if the x230's get released this month like they're supposed to, might have an x201 with 8gb of ram for sale :)
<rick_h_> hmm, cnet says: 05/24/12 we'll see
<gamerchick02> ooooh
<gamerchick02> we will see
<gamerchick02> i just keep looking at that Mac Air though
<brousch> rick_h_: is the keyboard still in tact?
<brousch> or has it been pummeled to dust?
<gamerchick02> hah. i can see that.
<gamerchick02> you have the "awesome version" yes?
<gamerchick02> like 8gb ram and an SSD?
<brousch> I need that 8GB
<rick_h_> brousch: hey, it's a thinkpad :)
<brousch> Yeah, but I've seen you type
<rick_h_> yea, 8gb of ram, I bought and put in my own 160gb intel ssd but that's two years
<brousch> All the letters worn off?
<rick_h_> i5 since better battery than the i7 with a 9cell and a 3 cell battery for it
<rick_h_> no, none of the ltters are worn off
<brousch> nice system
<rick_h_> yea, it's been my one true box for 2 years
<rick_h_> but it's time to get that new chipset and a new SSD, and if it has a 1600 display <3 OMG OMG OMG
<brousch> I'm still on this 6 year old Dell D630, but 4GB and SSD now
<brousch> Too big to lug around at conferences
<rick_h_> yea, will never go bigger than this 12.1/12.5 again I don't think
<rick_h_> worked great these last two years
<brousch> I may just reformat the macbook pro. I got all the goodies working under Kubuntu live cd
<brousch> The touchpad is still a little annoying, but a bluetooth mouse would work
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ that sounds amazing.
<rick_h_> ooh, this is the first I've seen of WiDi. jcastro you seen anything about linux support in that realm?
<gamerchick02> WiDi? what is that? (i'm out of the loop it seems)
<rick_h_> wireless display
<rick_h_> so firing a second monitor across wireless to a monitor/tv
<gamerchick02> oooh. that sounds pretty awesome
<brousch> i've seen those for a couple of years
<brousch> via a dongle at each end
<rick_h_> brousch: right, guess the new x230 has it built into its end
<rick_h_> so you just need the dongle on the display end
<brousch> oh nice
<rick_h_> hmmm, this review says June 5th...
<gamerchick02> you guys and talking about dongles. *ducks and runs*
<gamerchick02> sorry, i'm cheeky this evening.
<brousch> Suppresses inappropriate jokes about dongles and cheeks
<rick_h_> oh boooo "I did confirm with Lenovo there will NOT be an HD+ screen. LaptopMag reported there would be, but that was a misquote and untrue."
<rick_h_> no 1600 for me :/
<gamerchick02> awwww.
<gamerchick02> brousch, that's ok. no need to suppress anything.
<gamerchick02> but all this has made me grin and laugh. i need that tonight. :)
<rick_h_> man, been afk for almost all weekend
<rick_h_> and my email/rss are hating on me
<rick_h_> greg-g: what did you end up doing SSD-wise? Did you hear back from jcastro? Putting a 240gb intel in my wishlist I htink for the moment
<rick_h_> oooh, this looks sweet: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/geek-upgrade-diy-install-of-newertech-power2u-usb-outlet/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-27
<jrwren> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/101-crash-kills-well-known-burlesque-performer-4550000.php  She was a friend. :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-28
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> How was everyone's weekend?
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> Painful
<brousch> We put in a new 4'x30' flower bed
<rick_h_> ouch, tried to limit myself to normal yard upkeep this weekend
<snap-l> Ugh, that's no fun
<snap-l> WE did a little weeding in our "garden" this weekend before having folks over on Monday
<brousch> It looks nice though
<snap-l> Also: Sunny and no-rain my ass.
<rick_h_> heh, yea though at least by us the rain wasn't much until 5pm ish
<rick_h_> we ended up bailing on the in-laws picnic when the rain got more serious then
<snap-l> Yeah, but it was just enough to drive everyone inside
<snap-l> which we weren't planning on. :)
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> Also: new machine is awesome.
<rick_h_> snap-l: woot
<snap-l> Yeah, it's an 8 core machine
<snap-l> AMD, so it's not that speedy, but it's a definite improvement
<brousch> http://photos.rousch.net/Landscapes/memorial-day-flower-bed/
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, with lxc and all that these days nice to give things a full cpu to work with.
<brousch> An 8 core machine is not speedy?
<rick_h_> brousch: you're a glutton for punishment. Thas was some fine greeen grass there :P
<brousch> half of it was
<brousch> we took the sod and replaced bad grass
<brousch> My thinking is that the bigger her garden, the less I have to mow
<snap-l> brousch: Well, not as speedy as the Intel variant
<snap-l> and not watercooled, so I'm not overclocking it
<snap-l> But apparently this CPU is unlocked, so should I get the itch... ;)
<brousch> Crap. I didn't get a photo of my greatest achievement in the garden.
<brousch> I had to break off part of an edging block to fit in a small space, and I did it perfectly
<brousch> I think it justified my 5 years of archaeology study
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> I love it when someone capitulates in thinking something not happening is your fault because you're working on something related to that code for them
<snap-l> but what really happened was they missed the (rather generous) window for something to show up up to be processed, and suddenly it's no big deal
<snap-l> oooooommmmmmm.... zendon'wannahurtnobodyoooooooommmmmm
<jrwren> brousch: 4'x30' sounds huge. got pics?
<jrwren> wow brousch that looks good
<brousch> I'm happy with it
<brousch> We're actually going to wrap it around the side of the house later this year or next year
<snap-l> There are few things more  depressing than going through old Launchpad bug reports
<jrwren> bug #1 !
<jrwren> someone should close bug #1 as Not Important
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> then open bug 1,000,000 and copy bug #1, s/microsoft/google/ and s/desktop/mobile/
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> think we already hit 1,000,000, it's taken https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu/+bug/1000000
<snap-l> Well, just noticed my Karma was at 3, so wondered why that was
<snap-l> and noticed bugs relating to Gnome Panel and Desktop Couch
<snap-l> Desktop Couch one was still marked "New"
<jrwren> oh, bug numbers aren't per project eh? lame.
<jrwren> 1,000,000,000 then!
<snap-l> And a Brasero bug that still (afaik) hasn't been addressed that causes problems with burning DVDs
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/397412
<jrwren> I'd say bug number googol, but that is too large.
<brousch> snap-l: Someone revived a bug I reported in 2009 because it was similar to a new one. Now I get daily emails of people saying me too!
<snap-l> brousch: nice.
<snap-l> seems bugs either get fixed within a month, or never.
<snap-l> btw: Free RPG day is June 15th
<brousch> free rocket propelled grenades? Is that legal?
<snap-l> Come to your local game store and find out
<brousch> I'm scared
<snap-l> You should be.
<snap-l> http://gobretail.com/freerpgday2013.php
<brousch> gob retail? Gob Bluth?
<snap-l> I see you typing, but all I hear is blah blah blah
<brousch> That website makes me want to punch you for making me view it
<snap-l> Yeah, it's not the best to be frank
<snap-l> but it's light years ahead of other game shops sites.
<snap-l> http://riwhobbies.net/
<brousch> Web designers will never run out of clients
<snap-l> Yeah, there's definitely a need for good ones
<snap-l> http://rainydayhobbies.com/ <- here's another babypuncher
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-29
<jcastro> nice work rick_h_
<rick_h_> jcastro: :)
<jcastro> what do you think so far?
<rick_h_> not sure, the home page is hard to scan. Too much info across varying their size
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> http://15.185.233.27/categories
<jcastro> would be a saner homepage
<rick_h_> the new topic 'indicator' is too much like a button and moves all over
<jcastro> assuming the categories are all organized
<rick_h_> yea, fought some of this with bookie: https://bmark.us/recent
<rick_h_> trying to split out the data so that it still lines up/is scanable
<jcastro> man dude
<jcastro> your gravatar is awesome
<jcastro> I should have waited for gmb
<rick_h_> gmb ftw
<rick_h_> just wish I had a diff shirt but on friday was out of options in the suitcase
<rick_h_> kind of cool though. needs some UX love. I like the display of the topics except for that footer and the 6/6 thing
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> wip
<jcastro> still though
<rick_h_> definitely
<jcastro> compared to vbulletin?
<rick_h_> I've been spending too much time in forums lately ugh
<jcastro> http://ubuntuforums.org/forum.php
<rick_h_> the thing is how does it scale up. The ubuntu forums are crazy for so many forums/sub forums.
<jcastro> juju add-unit
<rick_h_> my woodworking forum isn't that bad. It's only a handful
<jcastro> :)
<rick_h_> hah, I more mean visually/usability :P
<jcastro> this is atwood's new thing btw.
<jcastro> it'll scale and be awesome
<rick_h_> http://www.semiww.org/forum/index.php looks a lot diff than http://ubuntuforums.org/forum.php
<jcastro> yeah so this is why we set this up
<jcastro> to answer those questions
<rick_h_> yea, cool.
<snap-l> evening
<snap-l> looking for topics for upcoming mug meetings (and speakets to go withthem)
<brousch> rick_h_: You see this? http://purecss.io/
<rick_h_> brousch: https://bmark.us/admin/recent :)
<rick_h_> brousch: look like a cleaned up/renamed YUI CSS.
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> they're using the new YUI responsive grid stuff
<brousch> I still don't like all the row and column stuff in my html
<rick_h_> yea, but it's tough when you want a fluid layout without it
<rick_h_> otherwise you get a hard coded count of columns
<brousch> http://semantic.gs/
<rick_h_> ugh, less
<brousch> I know
<brousch> Or sass
<rick_h_> oh, sass is ok
<rick_h_> current work project uses less and getting cranky with it
<brousch> That's the cleanest grid I've found
<rick_h_> well, you can use that grid but the pure stuff for reset, forms, etc. :)
<brousch> Perhaps
<brousch> We have a big sass community here, so I've not tried less
<rick_h_> yea, the juju gui is less and I was originally agnostic as long as you used something...now I'm turning into a hater
<rick_h_> part of it is how we use it though so can't get too cranky with it.
<brousch> You're working on juju now?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> doing the sidebar stuff on the left of http://uistage.jujucharms.com:8080/:flags:/browser_enabled
<brousch> looks touch-friendly
<brousch> big targets
<rick_h_> yea, should work on a tablet. I test it on my N10 once in a while
<brousch> Expansion is not obvious
<brousch> Is the ^ an action or a status?
<rick_h_> it's open/collapse indicator if you're talking about the thing I think you are
<brousch> Heh, wtf: This page is in Galacian would you like to translate it?
<rick_h_> yea, we've not figured out why chrome wants to translate it yet
<brousch> maybe ceph and juju are galacian words? Crazy
<brousch> When collapsed I think you need something under the second item to indicate there are more of them hidden
<brousch> Maybe a skinny row with ... in it or something
<rick_h_> so I guess some of the UX is brought over from Unity.
<brousch> When it comes up, I see the upside down ^ and think it's already expanded
<rick_h_> yea, I said the same thing
<brousch> It looks nice
<rick_h_> I prefer the sideways/down
<rick_h_> vs an up/down
<rick_h_> but yea, a pure JS client side application
<rick_h_> for managing your juju stuff
<rick_h_> talks to a pyramid app for api data using mongodb on the back end
<brousch> Hah, just found the crazy connected icons thing on the right
<rick_h_> the environment?
<rick_h_> where it shows what's deployed to your cloud
<brousch> I guess
<brousch> It's applications connected by lines
<rick_h_> right, so that's the juju stuff. It's what services you've deployed to your cloud and are running and relates them together
<brousch> nice
<rick_h_> so deploying haproxy and connecting it to your wordpress will proxy wordpress for you
<brousch> wow. i like the forms in pure.io
<brousch> ooo, buttons are nice too
<jrwren> don't attach to the same tmux session from within that tmux session. :)
<brousch> Did you rip a hole in space and time?
<rick_h_> jrwren: lol, done that it's fun
<ColonelPanic001> now I want to try it.
<greg-g> how do I subscribe to a bug report on github?
<greg-g> or is that "not the one true way of doing software development"? I also don't own a mac, so I might have gotten off on the wrong foot here.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> where is this?
<greg-g> ? here. I just want to know when a specific bug is fixed, that's it. And maybe comment if people need more debugging. But I don't want to leave a "just subscribing" comment on the bug
<brousch> greg-g: "Watch thread" at the bottom of the bug thread
<greg-g> but it says: "You only receive notifications for this thread when you participate or are @mentioned"
<greg-g> next to that button
<brousch> Right, click that button. It's a pull-down
<brousch> Isn't it obvious that a button is a selector?
<greg-g> ah, I have to reload for the text next to the button to make any sense anymore
<greg-g> it is obvious, but the text explaining my situation should change accordingly
<brousch> Click it, pick Watching
<greg-g> and then what?
<greg-g> there's no confirmation etc
<greg-g> so do i click "comment"
<greg-g> or just reload
<brousch> Sounds like a bug
<greg-g> the answer is reload, but that is nonintuiitive
<jrwren> file a bug @ github with this chat transcript. they will fix it.
<greg-g> jrwren: can't i just tweet? :)
<jrwren> yes, that will probably work :)
<jrwren> pretty sure github has a "turn tweet into bug" button implemented.
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I really really hate this power daemon for my UPS
<snap-l> the moment it hiccups the connection it'll suspend
<greg-g> jrwren: is having WUBS hating kind of day
<jrwren> i always hate wubs.
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> i'm just having a vocal wub hating day
<greg-g> you're just making me smile, is all
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> omg seriously!!!
<jrwren> WHY greg-g ??? WHY!?!
<jrwren> why ruin some of the greatest music of all time?
<greg-g> because, teenagers
<jrwren> well, that single or EP or whatever is over.
<jrwren> now to new Code 64
<jrwren> if Code 64 ever adds shitty wubs, I might just have to quit the world.
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/kalotone-addict/ <- jrwren
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sob1t-iUCmE
<jrwren> nooooooOOOOooOOOO !
<jrwren> snap-l: i did notice that Frontline assembly was dropping wubs before anyone.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, but they didn't suck
<jrwren> exactly.
<jrwren> sadomasochist has sounds which I can only describe as drops, and its fucking awesome.
<jrwren> and that was Jan of 1998
<snap-l> Thin ghtat I hate is you get this nice perky little tune, and then all of a sudden someone drops the tempo to fucking 60bpm and then starts this WUB WUB WUB WUB WUB shit
<jrwren> so I can blame FLA for bringing the world wubs
<jrwren> yes, I hate that too.
<snap-l> dit de doot de doot de SMACK DEEEERP de DEEEEEERP de WUB wub wub wub wubba  wubba wubbababababpppppfffffft
<snap-l> wub wub
<jrwren> i especially find it funny when metal people get into skrillex and so they have crazy long hair and it starts flailing around to the wubs
<jrwren> it just doesn't match IMO
<greg-g> hahahaha
<snap-l> That's liek trying to headband to the rite of spring
<jrwren> you think?
<jcastro> jrwren: is today good for you wrt. me picking up my laptop?
<jrwren> sure
<jrwren> come now (like this very minute) to beat traffic.
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> putting pants on!
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> TMI
<brousch> I guess that's better than "taking pants off"
<greg-g> depends on the goal
<jrwren> procreate with jorge is never the goal of #ubuntu-us-mi
<brousch> Never say never!
<greg-g> who says its all about procreating?
<jrwren> i just nit picked a wikipedia page - first edit in many years... but darnit!!!
<jrwren> Willie Nelson write Crazy, NOT Patsy Cline :)
<greg-g> thank you, good sir, for your valued contribution.
<brousch> Are there badges for wikipedia edits?
<brousch> Time to gamify wikipedia!
<greg-g> brousch: dude, we've had barnstars before gamification was a word
<brousch> Barnstars?
<greg-g> but it isn't your typical automatic gamification systems
<greg-g> brousch: there's this website that is really good at answering questions like this ;)
<greg-g> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Barnstars
<brousch> I was about to tell you I couldn't find it and then relaized I typed "barstars"
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> "These awards are part of theÂ Kindness CampaignÂ and are meant to promoteÂ civilityÂ andÂ WikiLove. They are a form of warm fuzzy: they are free to give and they bring joy to the recipient."
<brousch> I think I'm going to puke
<greg-g> hater
<brousch> Warm fuzzy is what they taught my 5 year old at kindergarten :P
<brousch> Along with "cold prickly"
<jrwren> my kid learned to fight in kindergarten.
<jrwren> me: "did you kick him back?"
<brousch> No fights yet, but my son will likely get his butt kicked
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> python, because foo = defaultdict(lambda: defaultdict(lambda: 0))
<jrwren> is a good idea
<gamerchick02> did i walk in on a "which programming language is better" discussion?
<greg-g> gamerchick02: don't worry, jrwren is just talking to himself, per usual
<gamerchick02> oh.
<gamerchick02> he'd fit right in over at work. we all talk to ourselves.
<snap-l> I dunno, I always get afraid of editing Wikipedia articles for fear that the whole thing will be brought to someone's attention, and the whole page will be deemed irrelevant to the greater population
<snap-l> I mean, not everything on Wikipedia can have the cultural significance of Marvel's Civil War
<rick_h_> jrwren: one level too much foo = defaultdict(lambda: defaultdict(int)
<rick_h_> should do the same thing
<rick_h_> and it's justbecause you need a callable to be passed to defaultdict, and the result of defaultdict isn't a callable
<rick_h_> don't get so lambda happy :P
<snap-l> Thus spaketh the Dalai Lambda
<Blazeix> mathomastech: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostgreSQL
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-30
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes, turns out i didn't need that anyway
<jrwren> rick_h_: defaultdict(dict) is all I needed
<rick_h_> jrwren: awesome
<rick_h_> jrwren: figured you were doing 2-d counts or something and needed the initial 0 to += 1
<jrwren> yup, but since it is a dict, i felt it reads a little better to just use get('count', 0)
<snap-l> Python: the infinite spool of rope to happily hang yourself
<jrwren> and since I'm doing min/max
<jrwren> get('min', value) reads even nicer
<jrwren> hehe, C has the same infinite rope. its just easier to string it up with python
<snap-l> The secret of C is there is no rope
<snap-l> just a pointer to a function to cut off your air supply.
<rick_h_> jrwren: http://docs.python.org/dev/library/itertools.html#itertools.accumulate ?
<jrwren> fold!
<jrwren> yay fold
<jrwren> i might be able to write this with fold, but I kinda feel this is more readable
<rick_h_> jrwren: cool, just tossing it out there.
<jrwren> *nod* thanks.
<jrwren> I do like reduce functions
<jrwren> wait... doesn't python have built in reduce?
<rick_h_> yea, min/max often seem to fit into that more
<jrwren> oh, but that one yields, nice
<jrwren> the problem is - standard deviation.
<jrwren> you have to iterate the list twice to calculate it, AFAIK
<rick_h_> jrwren: predicted it yesterday https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
<snap-l> So, who has the cajones to mark the bug "invalid"? :)
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> I don't think it's fixed, but I do agree the focus has changed
<snap-l> there are bigger and better problems to solve than market dominance.
<snap-l> but of course this is going to cause all sorts of shitstorm on the net and waste time
<jrwren> hahah! yes!
<jrwren> bug #1
<brousch> Aren't there more Android devices than windows computers now?
<brousch> So maybe it should be switched to unseating Google
<jrwren> join #csharp
<jrwren> oops
<brousch> ew
<jrwren> join #python
<jrwren> even worse
<snap-l> Sheesh, Dropbox goes down, and you'd think the internet went down with it
<brousch> I didn't notice
<jcastro> don't care, once it's up my clients will do their thang
<jcastro> though if I was out and about it'd probably be annoying
<snap-l> I care only because my GTD stuff is on Dropbox
<snap-l> and if it gets out of sync it can  be a pita
<snap-l> Tha's all. :)
<snap-l> but the way some people go on, you'd think their entire shared drive is on Dropbox for their company
<brousch> I'm afraid that might be true
<snap-l> https://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=101181&page=2
<snap-l> Funny thing is I think this was the same ass that complained loudly the last time
<jcastro> "Does anyone know Drew Houston's cell phone number or home address?"
<jcastro> creepy
<brousch> wat? Shuttleworth closed Bug #1?
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, that was the point. He marked it fix released :P
<brousch> I missed that part
<jrwren> i like shuttleworth.
<jrwren> he elaborated on a lot of the things I was feeling yesterday
<greg-g> I find this line funny: "nd I hope soon also how to be amazing for developers on their desktops" cc rick_h_
<greg-g> but man, Wikimedia's bug 1 is never going to die: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: how were the sprints
<greg-g> rick_h_: great! but man, I'm getting old. Jetlag is killing me now
<brousch> Sure. blame it on the jetlag instead of the weed
<greg-g> see what happens when you disrespect your tech team? http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, saw a report of that
<snap-l> Our docs are teh suck. Fix them up.
<snap-l> Nice bug #1. Guaranteed never to be closed. :)
<jjesse> i thought mark closed bug #1 today
<jrwren> wikimedia, not ubuntu
<jjesse> oh
<jjesse> sorry i'll go back to sleep
<greg-g> jjesse: me too me too!
<snap-l> http://earache.bandcamp.com/album/skull
<snap-l> Why yes, I like getting more requirements days before something is suppsed to launch, and then realizing I have two days less than I thought in order to launch it.
<brousch> You are a rare developer
<greg-g> Enjoy!
<snap-l> which I found out about a few weeks ago just before you were heading on vacation
<snap-l> and I'm sure was only then disclosed because you would be out during the normal "throw it over the wall" time that everything else comes along
<snap-l> and thank you very much for the design that involves several departments to do something that would have been best handled in one process
<snap-l> And we wonder why developers have alcohol fetishes.
<jrwren> i like that too.
<jrwren> nothing like a good challenge
<snap-l> jrwren: I wish I had your attitude
<snap-l> because I like challenges, but sometimes I see it as an affront.
<brousch> I wish i had his waistline
<snap-l> s/sometimes/most times/
<snap-l> and his rocking hair
<brousch> Trudat
<jrwren> i got a buzzcut. i've no hair
<jrwren> and my waistline is big. i need to drop a couple inches.
<jrwren> now if only you were both really hot women from outer space that wanted me just for my hair and body and my wife would never find out...
<greg-g> just tell her before hand
<jrwren> good idea.
<jrwren> i wonder what she will say. I'll tell her tonight.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZVVOzLyt3fo
<snap-l> also: jrwren, I'm flattered you'd think of me as a hot woman from outer space. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-05-31
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> TGIF and all that jazz
<brousch> I don't like jazz
<snap-l> You might want to check in to the hospital to see if you're alive because you're dead to me.
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> I was already dead to you because I hate Tool
<jrwren_> why didn't jane close the bug yesterday instead of mark?
<brousch> Who is jane?
<jrwren_> CEO
<jrwren_> Jane Sibler
<jrwren_> err, Silber
<brousch> See, that's why Shuttleworth did it
<jcastro> it's really not a bug, it's more of a mission statement
<brousch> You want press, you send Tony Stark, not Pepper Potts
<jrwren_> jcastro: understood. and that mission is no longer the mission, and its great to publicly state that.
<jrwren_> still, it seems like that would be Jane's role. Unless Mark is CIO/CTO/COO, and I realize, he is probably all 3 :)
<jrwren_> i'm not really serious, although I do find it a bit odd that Jane doesn't take a more public role.
<jcastro> bug #1 is an ubuntu thing, not a canonical thing
<jrwren_> ah, right. its difficult to separate the two.
<jrwren_> its like saying "That is a Windows thing, not a Mcirosoft thing" :)
<jcastro> Mark is head of product or something like that anyway
<jrwren_> flagship product and all that.
<jrwren_> I understand now. That makes good sense.
<jcastro> yeah but you have a windows head
<jcastro> and that guy determines what windows does
<jrwren_> exactly. i can almost remember his name.
<jrwren_> Sinofski
<jrwren_> Sinofsky
<jrwren_> and he does exactly these kinds of announcements
<snap-l> _stink_: Just unmarked your dent on identica from being spam. :)
<_stink_> haha, got auto marked?
<snap-l> Yeah, somehow
<_stink_> thank you sir
<_stink_> i just read the thing about the move
<snap-l> I'm a mod though
<_stink_> and for some stupid reason
<_stink_> i want to get moved
<snap-l> You can check it out now on one of the other servers if you don't get moved
<_stink_> i just created a twitter account for work purposes, which makes me really upset
<_stink_> but it reminded me of identica
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not sure what I'll use post migration
<snap-l> I use twitter / identi.ca occasionally
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-01
<snap-l> Is anyone else having problems getting to sites?
<brousch> no
<snap-l> I can't seem to get to wunderground.com, the actual noaa weather site, and clickondetroit.com
<brousch> works for me
<brousch> Get a real Internet!
<snap-l> Apparently I need one
<brousch> Oh, I forgot to congratulate you for finding duckgrind
<snap-l> brousch: I figured you would like that. :)
<brousch> Frickin awesome
<snap-l> JoDee didn't quite understand why I was falling off my chair laughing
<snap-l> Hm, seems like a local routing problem
<brousch> I love it
<brousch> My wife said it is horrible, but she sat through 2 songs
<brousch> That's 1.75 more songs than usual
<Wolfger_> duckgrind? I'm afraid to ask
<snap-l> Good afternoon
<brousch> snap-l: My kid loves duck grind. He's been talking like Donald Duck all day
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-06-02
<snap-l> hahahahaha
<snap-l> morning
<snap-l> reminder: meetjng tonight
<jrwren> Wolfger_: what is in your fermenter right now?
<wolfger> jrwren: I have 10 gallons of witbier and 10 gallons of kÃ¶lsch. Taking half of each to the next SCA event and the remainder to my friend's 20th anniversary. Soon I'll brew 10 gallons of Irish Red.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-26
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Yo yo
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> party
<jrwren> rick_h_: did you build your own work table(s)?
<brousch_> jrwren: Even I did
<rick_h_> jrwren: which work tables?
<rick_h_> jrwren: desk? or work bench in the woodshop?
<jrwren> workshop
<rick_h_> jrwren: https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/sets/72157633632980133/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/SQvq4f - workbench - an album on Flickr
<rick_h_> one note is that I put the front apron across the front of the top and I wish I'd never done that. I was hoping to squeeze another 1.5" to the width of the top
<jrwren> whoa, NICE
<jrwren> that is far nicer than I plan to do  :)
<jrwren> i'm doing 2x4s and OSB top, LOL
<jrwren> or maybe plywood
<rick_h_> jrwren: ah, yea before that I just a solid core door as a benchtop on saw horses
<rick_h_> jrwren: I also have cabinets with two layers of plywood glued/screwed coated in poly for counters
<brousch_> My workbench is 12ft long and has 3 2x6s as the top
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> http://thetruepanopticon.bandcamp.com/album/kentucky
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3VA4Co - Kentucky | Panopticon
<cmaloney> Blue Grass and Black Metal
<jrwren> o_O
<cmaloney> Or perhaps you'd rather hear the My Little Pony Symphonic Metal album that I'm listening to at the moment
<jrwren> no ty
<waf> jpop metal is the best
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-27
<brousch_> cmaloney: are you a brony?
<cmaloney> I am most decidedly not
<waf> nay, he says. nay.
<cmaloney> waf: I see what you did there.
<greg-g> good read: http://idlewords.com/bt14.htm
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/0ZIJvQ - The Internet With A Human Face - Beyond Tellerrand 2014 Conference Talk
<brousch_> That's so long. Can you break it up into 100 pictures with the text as a caption underneath?
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> and can the pictures all be happy ones
<brousch_> rick_h_: Is your team still hiring?
<rick_h_> brousch_: yep
<brousch_> Not for me BTW, but someone else
<brousch_> What are the requirements?
<mrgoodcat> ha rick_h_ you found the bookiebot bmark account?
<mrgoodcat> saw in my hilight
<mrgoodcat> i figured since this channel is already publicly logged it wouldn't be a big deal
<mrgoodcat> chrome doesn't do rss anymore? D:
<cmaloney> There's a few extensions that will still do RSS.
<cmaloney> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rss-subscription-extensio/bmjffnfcokiodbeiamclanljnaheeoke
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/KR5Va - Chrome Web Store - RSS Subscription Extension
<cmaloney> Good morning bte
<cmaloney> btw
<mrgoodcat> good morning to you as well. thanks for the tip
<cmaloney> np
<Havenstance> morning
<mrgoodcat> hi
<Havenstance> how goes it today?
<mrgoodcat> tired
<cmaloney> Yeah, last night was not good sleeping weather.
<brousch_> No AC?
<Havenstance> I have AC in my trailer but i put the unit in the kids room cuz its been too hot
<Havenstance> I'd rather her stay cool, at 1 they get onry if not lol
 * ColonelPanic001 finally listens to OMC
 * ColonelPanic001 hadn't noticed that Sunbather was CC'ed
<Havenstance> so im trying to configure this Email Raid feature on Server 13.10. I need a mail transport, any recommendations? I've tried SSMTP but it wont authenticate
<cmaloney> brousch_: Yep, it's in the garage. :)
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Yeah, I hadn't either.
<brousch_> barbaric
<cmaloney> someone mentioned it to me and I about shit myself with glee.
<cmaloney> proverbially, mind you.
<rick_h_> heh, the AC works better when you turn back on the breaker you turned off last year
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Nice. :)
<brousch_> Latest Django drama https://github.com/django/django/pull/2692
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/588OEY - #22667 replaced occurrences of master/slave terminology with leader/follower by fcurella Â· Pull Request #2692 Â· django/django Â· GitHub
<cmaloney> What I find interesting is the number of folks that likely blew up over the Github harassment kerfluffle praising Django on Github.
<cmaloney> Wow.
<Havenstance> ...
<Havenstance> so in my DB master and slave still exist
<Havenstance> hardware still uses master and slave....
<Havenstance> but for the sake of some cry babies we must now refer to it as leader/follower?
<Havenstance> not totally in favor but if the terms in the db's and computer hardware change then i'll go with it :)
<mrgoodcat> So sensitivity. Much PC. Wow.
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: not that i believe that particular pull request is worth archiving in bmark.us but I thought it might be interesting to you that it didn't get saved...
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: huh?
<mrgoodcat> if you look at bookiebot on bmark.us the github pull request doesn't show up
<rick_h_> what was your api response? :P
<mrgoodcat> idk
<mrgoodcat> hang on i'll add some print statements and play in a pm for a bit
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: as you say, not sure it's worth the effort but curious I guess. I'll admit I won't change anything atm
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: request entity too large
<mrgoodcat> removed the content= param and it works fine
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: if the page is too big does bookie not grab the readable content?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: I think that's on the web server side
<mrgoodcat> so its bmark.us specific? not bookie doing that throttling?
<Havenstance2> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7531067/   Huh?
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rBYNq5 - Ubuntu Pastebin
<rick_h_> I think it's the url limits of nginx
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: did you do a post on it?
<mrgoodcat> what do you mean?
<rick_h_> how do you submit the bookmark? is the content in the url or as a POST parameter?
<mrgoodcat> POST
<mrgoodcat> although i removed the content in order to prevent that from happening ore
<mrgoodcat> more*
<mrgoodcat> then i went to see if bookie grabbed it. nothing https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/9543af28d64eed
<rick_h_> so I think you hit the url limit and that it was sending the data in the url vs the post body, but not sure
<mrgoodcat> POST parameter should have worked though right?
<rick_h_> yea
<mrgoodcat> so maybe worth looking into, if POST isn't working for large http pages
<rick_h_> yep
<mrgoodcat> interestingly, if i grep the bookie source for \bentity "request entity too large" doesn't show up
<ColonelPanic001> I don't like the fact that this My Little Pony metal isn't terrible.
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: like I said, I think it's nginx
<brousch_> ColonelPanic001: How does it compare to DuckGrind?
<ColonelPanic001> I don't know duckgrind, but I'll say it's... par?
<ColonelPanic001> I don't know
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: yeah, that my little pony song was actually pretty good
<mrgoodcat> i like how "par" refers to pretty average when par golf is actually really good
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: par in golf just means that most people who play golf really suck at it. :)
<greg-g> anyone varied the displayed mail headers (eg TO: CC: X-Whatever) in mutt on folder?
<greg-g> use case: I want to show certain X-BUGZILLA headers in my Bugs folder, but not others
<greg-g> or maybe I should just show them if they're there, why not?
<greg-g> nvm! (but if you know, do tell!)
<rick_h_> greg-g: /me goes to look
<rick_h_> greg-g: not done it, does the expected 'folder-hook ignore *' 'folder-hook unignore ' not work?
<greg-g> rick_h_: probably will, I was just hoping to not repeat myself too much
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, kind of a pita. Must be a way to mass unignore or something
<greg-g> I'll have to folder-hook ignore X-BZ 3 or 4 times (each X header I want to show) for the other 2 accounts
<greg-g> oh well, will experiment
<cmaloney> I'd probably use procmail for that sort of filtering.
<cmaloney> assuming you can use it
<Havenstance2> I love when my boss says "I could have that running in X Minutes"
<Havenstance2> He doesn't like when I respond "Then why am I doing it?"
<cmaloney> Challenge accepted.
<brousch_> So github is now suggesting new repo names for you.
<brousch_> "Great repository names are short and memorable. Need inspiration? How about freezing-hipster."
<mrgoodcat> brousch_: could be wrong but i thought they always did that?
<brousch_> It's possible I never noticed
<brousch_> but freezing-hipster caught my eye
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> like buzzword-replacerator?
<mrgoodcat> real thing btw
<mrgoodcat> https://github.com/afolson/buzzword-replacerator
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/qaAYy4 - afolson/buzzword-replacerator Â· GitHub
<waf> does bookiebot request every URL pasted in here?
<mrgoodcat> yes
<waf> and what happens if I paste a link to a file that infinitely spits out content
<mrgoodcat> pls dont?
<mrgoodcat> lol
<waf> haha, ok.
<mrgoodcat> not sure if the requests lib accounts for that by default
<mrgoodcat> it might just throw an exception and move on with its day
<mrgoodcat> feel free to try it if you want
<mrgoodcat> waf: also posts to bmark.us
<mrgoodcat> .bmark bookiebot
<bookiebot> https://github.com/afolson/buzzword-replacerator - afolson/buzzword-replacerator Â· GitHub
<mrgoodcat> .bmark dyladan
<bookiebot> https://medium.com/message/81e5f33a24e1 - Everything Is Broken â The Message â Medium
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> .bmark craig
<bookiebot> http://www.hypnoticdirgerecords.com/hypnotic-dirge-webstore.php#!/~/product/category=6794198&id=33474318 - Epitimia - (Un)reality 2CD
<cmaloney> This makes spamming people way too easy.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-28
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: think i should remove it?
<cmaloney> Nah
<mrgoodcat> lol
<rick_h_> jcastro: doh! http://r.bmark.us/u/ded145755b075d
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Doesn't surprise me
<cmaloney> Valve is used to manufacturing bits, not plastic
<mrgoodcat> valve delayed a launch? what else is new?
<mrgoodcat> the moment when git became self hosting https://github.com/git/git/tree/e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/zpC2hs - git/git at e83c5163316f89bfbde7d9ab23ca2e25604af290 Â· GitHub
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch_> morny
<brousch_> Oh my. The Django drama thread is still going
<cmaloney> brousch_: That's not getting stopped anytime soon
<cmaloney> Especially not after the events of last week / this week
<cmaloney> There's a lot of "righting the wrongs of the world" happening at the moment
<brousch_> Only 627 comments
<cmaloney> Not that it's a bad thing
<rick_h_> *lalalalalalalalalalala* /me gets packed to head to the woods and forget all this
<brousch_> What events?
<cmaloney> I wonder how many of those folks actually use Django
<cmaloney> brousch_: #yesallwomen
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Are you going to be at CHC tonight?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: no, but thanks for reminding me to send out reminders
<cmaloney> rick_h_: This is not good. :)
 * cmaloney missed last week, you miss this week
<brousch_> hm, clicking that hashtag in irccloud took me to a channel
<cmaloney> We're going to have to coordinate schedules.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, well vacation and all that. I'll be there next week
<cmaloney> kk
<rick_h_> We get back on Tues but I'm taking moar days off!
<cmaloney> Hopefully something won't blow up over here.
 * rick_h_ is getting a little fed up about working at 11pm, especially when stuff starts before 7am
<cmaloney> Oh, so you are taking a week off? that's nice.
<rick_h_> yea, dad is coming up from VA tonight and we head to mackinaw in the morning
<rick_h_> never been to the island
<cmaloney> you camping south of the island?
<rick_h_> yep, just SE of the bridge. Camp site is supposed to have 'lake and bridge view'
<rick_h_> http://www.campmackinaw.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/79QDKO - Mackinaw Mill Creek Camping is a Mackinaw City RV Resort Camp on the Straits of Mackinac and has Cabins with Kitchenettes
<cmaloney> Nice flash banner.
<rick_h_> :/
<rick_h_> well, not expecting them to be web experts
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Oh, it's a landing page. That's awesome.
<rick_h_> wheeee
<cmaloney> I didn't know those still existed. :)
<brousch_> rick_h_: Awesome!
<cmaloney> http://www.campmackinaw.com/images/fort_soldier_bridge_217.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/7UZAAa - image/jpeg
<brousch_> Bringing your bikes?
<rick_h_> brousch_: definitely
<cmaloney> I dodn't know Edgar Froese did revolutionary LARPing.
<rick_h_> brousch_: though we'll probably have to rent one for me and the boy since I don't think he can keep up on his little bike
<rick_h_> brousch_: so we'll rent a tandem thingy and let my dad ride mine
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Froese <- for those who don't know who that is.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Lxj2p - Edgar Froese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<brousch_> Biking around the island isn't hard, but once you start going up it is difficult
<cmaloney> It's kind of like biking around Kensington. It's great about half-way around. ;)
<brousch_> Also, don't forget to eat a pastie http://www.mackinawpastie.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MkpPte - Mackinaw Pastie & Cookie Co.: Serving the finest pasties to the nicest people since 1964
<cmaloney> Then you realize you need to go further to get back. ;)
<cmaloney> Oh yeah, Pasties are the best.
<cmaloney> Bar none.
<cmaloney> Though not sure how they are in the summertime but in the winter they're awesome.
<brousch_> rick_h_: I'm very interested in how that camp ground turns out
<cmaloney> It's like love in a flaky pastry
<brousch_> We've always stayed at hotels in Mackinaw City
<rick_h_> brousch_: yea, will let you know. It's a big big/less woodsy than I wanted but the wife loves all the stuff (pool/etc)
<rick_h_> there's some smaller ones across the bridge we looked into as well
<rick_h_> cheaper and more camping feel
<mrgoodcat> morning
<brousch_> We took a day trip up to Soult St Marie last time. That was fun
<brousch_> Take a tour boat through the locks, go to the ship museum, watch the reall big ships go through
<rick_h_> yea, that'd be cool
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/communities/105711849406316277146 <- rick_h_
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rMP9jN - Royal Oak Coffee House Coders - Community - Google+
<rick_h_> cmaloney: rgr, joining
<cmaloney> If anyone else wants to join the CHC community please feel free
<mrgoodcat> joined
<mrgoodcat> today is early mode right?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: roger though not sure how many people will be there early. Never know
<mrgoodcat> got stuff going on today?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yea, I won't be there tonight but normally early CHC people forget and show up normal time and such
<rick_h_> so it's hit/miss how well it goes off :)
<mrgoodcat> got something fun planned?
<mrgoodcat> or just busy with work stuff?
<rick_h_> packing
<rick_h_> wheee
<rick_h_> nope, just 7 meetings today and a couple fly by's to get out the door
<mrgoodcat> where you going?
<rick_h_> the woods! or the lake, not sure I guess
<rick_h_> camping up north
<brousch_> Bring your swim suit and take a dip in the straights
<rick_h_> heh, I'm thinking I'm not going in any water
<brousch_> I went in Lake MI last weekend. It was cold but not impossible
<mrgoodcat> i went in our lake up north
<mrgoodcat> would not recommend
<mrgoodcat> my balls are still frozen
<brousch_> Lake Superior still has ice bergs
<mrgoodcat> got to waterski though so not a total loss
<jrwren> how far north?
<mrgoodcat> 45th parallel almost exactly
<mrgoodcat> gaylord
<mrgoodcat> er chester twp more accurately
<jrwren> cool!
<jrwren> this makes me appreciate our heated pool even more.
<mrgoodcat> it should
<jrwren> it was like bath water when I went on Sunday
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's actually a store there that makes a big deal about being on the 45th parallel.
<mrgoodcat> the lakes down here weren't so bad last week though
<cmaloney> Charlevoix iird.
<mrgoodcat> main street in gaylord runs on the 45th parallel
<mrgoodcat> lunchtime yet?
<brousch_> Second Breakfast
<mrgoodcat> .isup yakko.cs.wmich.edu
<bookiebot> http://yakko.cs.wmich.edu appears to be down
<mrgoodcat> :/
<mrgoodcat> whelp that would be what happened to my stupid irssi
<mrgoodcat> .isup ccowmu.org
<bookiebot> http://ccowmu.org returned a response code of 200 in 0.27705 seconds
<mrgoodcat> :D
<mrgoodcat> i'm back
<brousch_> http://goo.gl/C3PHEv
<bookiebot> Robot crocodile burgles hippo turds in the name of science | DVICE
<brousch_> I just wanted bookiebot to say that
<rick_h_> lol
<mrgoodcat> lol
 * mrgoodcat approves of that motivation
<mrgoodcat> .sysuptime
<bookiebot> Uptime: 48 days, 23:15:41
<mrgoodcat> hrm...
<ColonelPanic001> anyone going to this Self.conference thing?
<mrgoodcat> i was going to but it's the wrong weekend for me
<mrgoodcat> i'm already doing the belle isle grand prix and the hoedown
<brousch_> hoedown?
<ColonelPanic001> just curious if I knew anyone going
<ColonelPanic001> is "J Wolfgang Goerlich" someone in here? they replied to me on twitter saying they were going, but honestly, I have no recollection who that is at all.
<ColonelPanic001> ah, we're both on the misec list, that probably is it
<mrgoodcat> brousch_: it's a country festival
<brousch_> ew
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i like everything
<cmaloney> I think I went to hoedown once
<cmaloney> That was... um... erm...
<cmaloney> Or maybe it was a 4H thing.
<cmaloney> can't remember. :)
<_stink_> same thing.
<cmaloney> _stink_: That's what I was getting at. :)
<_stink_> yeah, i happily explained your joke for you :)
<_stink_> i have been to two country concerts
<_stink_> erm.
<_stink_> three
<_stink_> i try not to think about them.
<cmaloney> It's the largest number of people who clap on the downbeat ever assembled.
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/26mstt/8_days_ago_several_linux_configs_were_added_to/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MEF1Q1 - Too Many Requests
<cmaloney> Civilization V
<brousch_> Shut up. I like my free time.
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<brousch_> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/flame-firefox-os-developer-phone/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/G6pKcw - Pre-orders start today for Flame, the Firefox OS developer phone â© Mozilla Hacks â the Web developer blog
<mrgoodcat> wtb https://developer.leapmotion.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TdMsK - Skeletal Tracking | Leap Motion Developers
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha two toys at once https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14293011815/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ZifRaj - P1000015 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<cmaloney> Oh jeez.
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> rick_h_: What's the keyboard in the foreground?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: the kenisis freestyle 2
<rick_h_> errr kinesis that is
<rick_h_> pic taken from the new camera to the new keyboard
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> Looks a little fuzzy when I zoomed in
<rick_h_> :(
<rick_h_> yea, going to take some learning on the camera
<rick_h_> and I was focusing on the V key vs the name
<cmaloney> Has some strange dithering under low light
<mrgoodcat> what camera?
<rick_h_> panasonic gx7 micro 4/3
<cmaloney> Rubber Dome for $119?
<rick_h_> just in time for camping
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, I wanted to see if I could use this as a travel keyboard
<cmaloney> That's about $100 too many
<rick_h_> not sure though, bit beefy, but we'll see
 * cmaloney will split your keyboard for cheap.
<rick_h_> hah
<mrgoodcat> time to go home
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-25-33-Power-Lever-Extendable-Hedge/dp/B001KVZTSG <- split keyboards done dirt cheap.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/d2fEhI - Amazon.com : Fiskars 25-33 Inch Power-Lever Extendable Hedge Shear (9169) : Fiskars Products : Patio, Lawn & Garden
<rick_h_> heh
<cmaloney> Though I have to say if I could stomach a split keyboard that would be the one I'd choose.
<greg-g> KINESIS!
<cmaloney> here we go
<cmaloney> I can't get over the cavity split keyboard
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g> hold out your fingers like you are looking at your nails
<greg-g> notice something?
<greg-g> your fingers are different lengths!
<greg-g> :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: you so crazy
<cmaloney> greg-g: Hold your hands up in front of your face
<cmaloney> now turn your wrists so you're looking at the backs of your hands
<greg-g> are you going to be a bully and shove my hand in my face?
<cmaloney> fold your fingers into fists
<cmaloney> now extend the middle fingers on both hands
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> he
<greg-g> h
<jrwren> i feel ashamed. I used itertools.chain.from_iterable(l) instead of [y for x in l for y in x]
<mrgoodcat> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/JYHS1H - The Problem with Time & Timezones - Computerphile - YouTube
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-29
<rick_h_> hope CHC went well, almost all packed wheee
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, we had mrgoodcat and waf there
<cmaloney> Though we ducked out early because the prof wasn't there. :)
<mrgoodcat> it was one of my most productive chc meetings too
<mrgoodcat> i almost did homework
<brousch_> Heh, my friend is supposed to give a talk about using TrueCrypt tonight at WMLUG
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> my money is on someone picking it up.
<jrwren> i didn't read the details about them folding
<jrwren> iirc snowden taught greenwald to use truecrypt when greenwald went to russia
<mrgoodcat> check out the pretty new haskell website. not done yet but shows promise http://haskell-lang.org/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/eLEsq1 - Haskell Programming Language
<mrgoodcat> the current haskell.org kinda sucks...
<mrgoodcat> here's the blog post where the creator explains his motivations/methodologies http://chrisdone.com/posts/haskell-lang
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Yw2G3a - An alternative Haskell home page
<brousch_> Are there any things I know of that are written in Haskell?
<mrgoodcat> well that's a difficult question to answer...
<mrgoodcat> pandoc?
<mrgoodcat> if you're asking a question like that the answer is probably no
<brousch_> I am wondering if it's been used for any real project or if it's just an academic language
<mrgoodcat> ah i understand. http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/N3OIn - Haskell in industry - HaskellWiki
<mrgoodcat> notably, at&t and some banks
<cmaloney> Pretty sure the answer to most languages that you've heard of is they're being used somewhere.
<cmaloney> Heck, I'm sure someone out there is using Brainfuck in production
<Havenstance> mrgoodcat, it appears that using community edition software in a production environment isn't a good idea. Boss found that out the hard way yesterday despite my trying to convince him otherwise from the start :)
<mrgoodcat> Havenstance: what happened?
<mrgoodcat> hope i didn't get you in trouble... :/
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: lol i sincerely hope so
<Havenstance> nah, you didn't get me in trouble :)
<Havenstance> he had me put the community edition on it and yesterday it was complaining about upgrading to ubuntu 14.04
<Havenstance> his dumb ass clicked go
<Havenstance> dropped a nuclear bomb on the entire system
<Havenstance> we shared a good laugh once things calmed down :)
<Havenstance> mainly because watching the clerks run around like chickens with no heads was extremely amusing
<mrgoodcat> comm edition of zentyal?
<mrgoodcat> how did you fix?
<Havenstance> I haven't yet lol. We put a router in place of the box to hold over until we get it fixed
<Havenstance> I had xubuntu 13.10 on it for the GUI that worked to make him happy there. Then I put zentyal over that and it worked great but xubuntu kept complaining that xubuntu 14.04 was out and watned to upgrade. I told him doing it would break the system just to click ignore cuz I didn't know how to make it stop
<Havenstance> Probably was an easy setting or something well he mistakenly clicked upgrade and gave it the password and it proceeded to Fubar itself
<Havenstance> he's since paid for the latest edition of ClearOS Professional and is having me run with that. I don't know anything about it but I suppose I didn't know anything about zentyal either and now I at least have some terminal experience under my belt to help figure things out.
<Havenstance> but good news is if I need help with it. I can call the support line and they will walk me through it. So that's a blessing I suppose
<Havenstance> We are putting it on two machines though and going to keep one as a redundancy that just sits there until we need it.
<Havenstance> the guy might be picky as hell but he's smart as a whip he's the one that threw the router at me when it happened said pull that out and throw this in. then I had to change IPs on all POS machines and the servers for them.... It made for an interesting hour to say the least lol
<cmaloney> Happy Afternoon
<greg-g> not yet
 * greg-g slept in
<mrgoodcat> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/05/openssl-to-get-a-security-audit-and-two-full-time-developers/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/dX3LB8 - OpenSSL to get a security audit and two full-time developers | Ars Technica
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: About time
<cmaloney> It's interesting how something that pretty much powers the entirey security of the OSS online presence was pretty much completely volunteer.
<greg-g> interesting but not surprising
<greg-g> I get more and more cynical the longer I work at FLOSS orgs.
<greg-g> WMF's infra is 99.9999% FLOSS (only our server BIOS, Juniper routers, the one NetApp server, and MaxMind GeoIP database are proprietary), so we're the canary for a lot of things.
<greg-g> (that doesn't count developer side things like laptops, or google docs in use by other parts of the org, etc)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Oh definitely not surprising
<cmaloney> greg-g: cynincal in what regard?
<greg-g> I wonder if my talk on this topic will be accepted at the next Wikimania in London
<greg-g> cmaloney: mostly pragmatic that there aren't always maintainers of every bit of software we run, so we need to step up and learn/fix things other people wrote all the time.
<greg-g> the hard part is the "we" in that sentence is mostly just my team, not the other teams in engineering
<greg-g> iow: my team is a part of "Platform" whereas all the other teams are "Feature teams" aka 'writing new greenfield shit'
<greg-g> there's a good quote from our team tech lead: Platform team. We do all the boring things. Well, we don't think they're boring.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, I think many organizations don't realize that OSS is more than just downloading someone else's work
<cmaloney> there's also a stewardship component
<greg-g> sometimes it can be, most times if you're really invested in it, it's much much more
<greg-g> yep
<cmaloney> It's pushing patches upstream
<cmaloney> and making sure to file reports if something breaks
<cmaloney> And stepping up if something doesn't get fixed
<greg-g> luckily we do upstream'ing right, it'd be hard if I worked some place that either didn't push things upstream or was bad about releasing/accepting patches to our code
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've been fortunate with the last few jobs (minus one) for releasing code upstream.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> Every now and then I pinch myself. My only real jobs (3 at this point, after grad school) have been very privileged in this respect
<greg-g> (being a camp counselor and fast food worker in college doesn't count ;) )
<cmaloney> I have never done more with my life after smacking cans at Meijer
<cmaloney> that was the height of my career.
<greg-g> smacking cans?
<greg-g> busking?
<cmaloney> No, working at the bottle return pre-self-service
<greg-g> ahhh
<cmaloney> It's one of those jobs (like elevator operator) that you'll have to explain to folks what that was.
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> funny, we still have door men ;)
<brousch_> cmaloney: My 6 year old does that job now:P
<brousch_> I'm sure he gets much more fun out of it too
<cmaloney> prepping him for the wild world of button-pushing, eh? :)
 * cmaloney just got this shiver for what the office of 10 years from now will look like
<cmaloney> "Here's your desk, and here's your tablet"
<cmaloney> http://blog.logitech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tablet-Keyboard_BTY2_A_Mac_72_dpi.jpg <- workstation
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/C6v9Tj - image/jpeg
<brousch_> cmaloney: I carry that around with me more often than my laptop. Of course it's a Nexus 10, but close enough
<brousch_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AG0D61O/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TIasf - Amazon.com: Poetic KeyBook Removable Bluetooth Keyboard Case for Google Nexus 10 Black (With Auto Sleep/Wake Function) (3 Year Warranty from Poetic): Computers & Accessories
<cmaloney> http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/ssio03.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/qR3VNi - image/jpeg
<brousch_> If my PyOhio talk is accepted, I'll be presenting from it
<cmaloney> There's your desktop machine. ;)
<cmaloney> brousch_: So it's a laptop with a crappy hinge. ;)
<brousch_> The keyboard is magnetic, so it can be moved anywhere
<cmaloney> ... crappy hinge.
<greg-g> :)
<brousch_> :P
<brousch_> The keyboard is the closest I've found to being "normal"
<brousch_> Just a little bit of out-of-place in the lower right corner
<mrgoodcat> i'm not worried about what the office will look like in ten years
<mrgoodcat> you probably didn't think anyone could be productive on a laptop in 2004
<brousch_> Office will be everyone using a 39" 8K touchscreen dumb terminal
<greg-g> we'll go back to dumb terminals?
<cmaloney> We aren't?
<greg-g> or do you mean "fat clients" eg chromebooks
<brousch_> Yes
<brousch_> fat client is a better term
<cmaloney> I'd argue the web is already the "smart terminal"
<greg-g> dumb terminal to me means nothing on it other than a remote desktop-type thing
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> there's a good xkcd (of course) about the phone app analogy
<greg-g> phone app vs webpage
<brousch_> Damn, everything really will be written in Javascript
<cmaloney> a-yep
<greg-g> none of that crap coffeescript
<cmaloney> It's like realizing everyone was writing in Basic
<cmaloney> But a version of Basic that actively screws with variable types
<cmaloney> No, wait, that is Basic.
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Shitty floating point.
<cmaloney> Hmm... starting to think Brendan Eich may have been a Microsoft plant all along. :)
<greg-g> hah
<mrgoodcat> you don't think javascript will ever be replaced?
<mrgoodcat> i think that seems a bit unlikely
<brousch_> It's been around forever, and nothing has replaced it yet
<brousch_> You would need MS+Google+Mozilla to agree on something
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think it will be replaced... by something that compiles down to Javascript
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> i think something will not replace it but maybe be in addition to it
<cmaloney> It's almost prophetic how it was named
<mrgoodcat> and eventually everyone will stop using it
<mrgoodcat> then it will die
<brousch_> cmaloney: Sounds like I should pay more attention to pyjamas and its ilk
<cmaloney> It's like a Java JVM that is scripted.
<mrgoodcat> VERY VERY SLOWLY
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Like FORTRAN
<brousch_> I think VBScript is still around in ancient proprietary webapps
<cmaloney> I'm surprised VBScript still runs
<rick_h_> ugh the bugs!!!
<greg-g> rick_h_: hey, are least you aren't dealing with a site issue today!
<greg-g> https://identi.ca/greg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/EVPM3j - Greg Grossmeier - Identi.ca
<rick_h_> greg-g: doh, deploy fail?
<rick_h_> greg-g: oops
<greg-g> actually no!
<greg-g> ops puppet config fail
<rick_h_> doh
<rick_h_> time for juju charms :P
<greg-g> so, not my team!
<greg-g> hah, right
<greg-g> no offense, but....
<greg-g> ;)
<rick_h_> just poking/kidding
<greg-g> I know
<greg-g> complexity is hard
<rick_h_> yep yep
<greg-g> rick_h_: bees?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-30
<cmaloney> What? Totem removed playlists?
<cmaloney> THat's horseshit.
<greg-g> yep :/
<greg-g> you can select all in a folder and open in totem and it'll just work, but you have no control over order
<cmaloney> Ah, because orderning things might confuse people
<cmaloney> idiots.
<cmaloney> Youtube is now on Roku!!!!!!1!!
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch_> yes
<jrwren> EV-ERY BO-DY'S WORKIN FOR THE WEEKEND!!!
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> https://periscope.io/blog/hyperloglog-in-pure-sql.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/KL4d3S - HyperLogLog in Pure SQL
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's pretty sweet
<cmaloney> Figures we'd talk about Jury Duty at the MUG board meeting and today I get a summons.
<greg-g> yay!
<cmaloney> Hurray civic duty no computers
<greg-g> I was so sad when I wasn't selected (the case my group would have gone to to start the selection process wasn't on the ball enough that day, I never made it past the intro video)
<cmaloney> greg-g: You're weird. :)
<greg-g> because I want good people to be a part of our legal system so it's not just filled with people who couldn't buy their way out? yeah, I am.
<cmaloney> greg-g: I do too, but I like to delegate. ;)
<_stink_> i'm with greg-g - i was mad when i didn't get to sit
<_stink_> i got called to jury selection but never got drawn
<brousch_> I wanted to nullify all the things!
<greg-g> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xSP_T0VqU
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/TRvrmj - Net Neutrality [RAP NEWS 25] - YouTube
<greg-g> I love Rap News
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-05-31
<tony-smlr> SMLR Episode 127 - Localhost - Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PVTKIQId7Y - Audio only: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Rdxx1l - Episode 127 - Localhost - YouTube
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r4DLeN - application/ogg
<cmaloney> Good morning
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<ColonelPanic001> at self.conference
<ColonelPanic001> I think the morning opening talk may have involved playing patty-cake
<ColonelPanic001> I don't knw, I came in late. Not late enough I guess.
<cmaloney> ImageMagick is awesome.
<cmaloney> That is all
<cmaloney> My CPU is at 800%
<cmaloney> (Well, 792%. Trimming images that I scanned)
<jrwren> how is self.conference?
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> Howdy.
<cmaloney> Got the AC unit in. :)
<cmaloney> How's the trip so far?
<rick_h_> heh, well we went to the island today and bugs were not a problem there
<rick_h_> but now we're back at the campsite and :(
<rick_h_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14300218662/in/photostream/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/DlHkxx - Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<cmaloney> Fish fly season?
<rick_h_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14313740134/in/photostream/lightbox/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/8JYwCq - Sign in to Yahoo
<cmaloney> 404
<rick_h_> either that or misquitos or nats or both
<rick_h_> heh, now that link should work
<cmaloney> Well, you're near water, so likely fish flies.
<cmaloney> but still purdy.
<rick_h_> yea, they're crazy. Sad to be hiding in the camper with such  beautiful weather and such
<rick_h_> but the poor boy looks like he either killed my favorite pet or bugs think they can treat him like a buffet
<cmaloney> Ah, he's got the problem JoDee has
<cmaloney> I can go thorugh a cloud of mosquitoes and get a few bites
<rick_h_> we've got clouds
<cmaloney> she can stand outside and find the one mosquito in the tri-county area,
<rick_h_> and clouds and clouds
<rick_h_> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-06-01
<jrwren> what island?
<rick_h_> mackinaw
<_stink_> yeah the island has lots of bats if i understand correctly
<_stink_> so fewer bugs
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> the boy is a huge fan of bats lately
<jrwren> oh awesome! mackinac island!
<cmaloney>  lGood afternoon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-25
<brousch> jrwren: I went to Greenbush yesterday
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Happy Memorial Day and all that
<greg-g> hello from France still
<greg-g> we're in a war room at this hackathon doing the 1.25 release of MediaWiki (we do releases twice / year)
<cmaloney> Excusez-moi, mais je crois avoir Ã©garÃ© les croissants et les cuisses de grenouilles. Vous s'il vous plaÃ®t me dire sur le chemin de l'ambassade des Ãtats-Unis?
<greg-g> I know zero French
<cmaloney> MediaWiki is only at 1.25
<cmaloney> greg-g: Recommend not saying that to anyone.
<cmaloney> "Excuse me but I seem to have misplaced the croissants and frog legs. Would you please tell me the way to the United States Embassy?"
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> It's weird having greg-g before 11am
<greg-g> cmaloney: I've been up for 7.5 hours :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'll bet
<greg-g> and since my flight it at 6:50 am tomorrow morning, and I'll probably have to leave the hotel at 4am... I'm not sure I'm sleeping tonight
<cmaloney> Something tells me sleep is doubtful
<cmaloney> i really hate it when a band makes their covers of songs CC-licensed, but keeps their other releases non-CC
<cmaloney> On th eplus side though: New Town Portal
<jrwren> brousch: so jealous! how was it?
<brousch> The town is weird. It's like a giant parking lot for the brewery
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> more so than shorts?
<brousch> The food was really good and the beer was good
<brousch> I haven't been to shorts
<jrwren> sounds awesome.
<jrwren> what beer did you drink?
<brousch> There was a 45 minute wait at 3:30pm on sunday
<jrwren> sheesh!
<brousch> The brewery and taproom is one side of the street, then the "Annex" on the other side where they sell swag and bottles and have an outdoor grill
<jrwren> both darkhorse and bells are like that, with a separate store.
<brousch> I had a flight of 5 beers: distorter, red bud, traktor, cabra perdida, and Damn Dirty Ape (which I don't see on the website)
<brousch> We went to paw paw brewing on Saturday and had a flight of all the beers (18)
<jrwren> nice!
<jrwren> i always forget about pawpaw, cuz they do not distribute much
<jrwren> red bud is a red?
<jrwren> most of those greenbush beers i've never heard of.
<jrwren> must not distrubte them.
<brousch> Yeah, I tried the ones I hadn't seen in the store
<brousch> Damn Dirty Ape was supposedly a banana bread stout, but we detected no banana
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<cmaloney> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/digital-rights-movement-0 <- irony
<cmaloney> in that this book is DRM-encumbered
<cmaloney> Actually I take that back. Apparently there's a free, non-encumbered book
<cmaloney> unfortunately the same can't be said for the rest of their books.
<cmaloney> https://atlasvolt.bandcamp.com/track/a-tribute-to-carl-sagan
<cmaloney> greg-g: pretty sure this fair-use thing is kind of rubbish
<cmaloney> Seems anything they used a quote from became "CC-BY" and everything else is full-on-copyright
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-26
<cmaloney> Just demoed LXC at work.
 * DrDaemonEye peers in
<cmaloney> and how was the peer review? :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: cool, what was the demo?
<cmaloney> Just a brief impromptu overview of how awesome they are.
<jrwren> cmaloney: i finally learned how to use the cloud-trusty template. it rules.
<cmaloney> nice!
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/HaskellCEO/status/578630495510114306
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2015/05/26/hot-topic-buys-thinkgeek/
<cmaloney> I has a sad
<jrwren> hahahahaha
<cmaloney> Yeah, sadly it's expected.
<cmaloney> since Hot Topic is pretty much the place where trends go to die
<cmaloney> God dammit. We moved to a new system at work for handling finance stuff
<cmaloney> which replaced our old VB client stuff
<cmaloney> new software requires IE and .Net 4.5.1
<jrwren> yick.
<jrwren> is it running .NET in the IE ?
<cmaloney> I think so
<jrwren> wow. MSFT hasn't advocated that since 2004
<cmaloney> Well, apparently we found the company that didn't get the memo
<jrwren> oh there are MANY
<cmaloney> I was hoping it was a simple "change the user agent and shit works" issue
<cmaloney> but I can't fake that kind of stupid.
<jrwren> its running activex controls and .net in your browser.
<jrwren> guess what? that runs outside of the browser sandbox. YAY
<cmaloney> Oh naturally
<cmaloney> Because fuck the open web.
<jrwren> your machine part of their AD?
<cmaloney> It's part of the company AD
<jrwren> yeah, so there is no security for you anyway.
<cmaloney> Whatever. I only need it for my timesheets
<cmaloney> Yep, it installs an application.
<cmaloney> Kind of like a podcast that makes you have to sit on their site to listen to it
<jrwren> oh, i wonder if it is just a click-once app. that isn't so bad.
<cmaloney> Just pisses me off that what was supposed to be a "web-based system" is turning more into a "here's an application that's delivered over the web that's Windows-specific"
<cmaloney> WOuld like to blow away my Windows VM at some point
<jrwren> Chrysler?
<jrwren> keep dreaming
<cmaloney> I haven't been at Chysler since 2008. ;)
<brousch> cmaloney has spent the last few years fixing rick's old code
<jrwren> oh, nevermind me then.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-27
<wolfger> good morning
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> hey wolfger, how's the supplier life?
<wolfger> still pretty sweet
<cmaloney> awesome
<wolfger> but the correct terminology is "purchased service". We don't supply anything except knowledge and labor.
<wolfger> and it sounds like Chrysler wants to cut purchased services out of IT entirely...
<cmaloney> ugh
<wolfger> they think that AME (now simply called ME) can do the validation of the IT systems in-house, and all IT needs to do is the configuration
<cmaloney> someone realized they're spending money again
<wolfger> while it's not great news for us, we're laughing about the inevitable failure of that idea
<wolfger> in the meantime, I'm pretty sure our Ford + Miscellaneous projects will support us
<cmaloney> well, in a perfect world they might be correct
<wolfger> but currently working on one or two FCA de Mexico projects
<cmaloney> sweet
<cmaloney> viva los FCA
<wolfger> oh, undoubtedly the AME boys *could* do our job.
<cmaloney> yes, mg spanish sucks
<wolfger> but they currently lack the ability or desire
<cmaloney> which is why your company was there in the first place
<cmaloney> it's cyclic
<cmaloney> they feel independent when someone realkzes they're spendimg too much money
<cmaloney> and they get help when they realize they're losing money
<cmaloney> it's all e perception du jour
<jrwren> that reminds me of GM and their HP contract.
<jrwren> wtf was it before HP? The Ross Perot company name?
<cmaloney> eds
<jrwren> EDS!
<jrwren> ty cmaloney
<jrwren> GM decides EDS is too much $$ so goes out to bid.
<jrwren> HP wins the bid.
<jrwren> HP buys EDS to provide the exact same service
<jrwren> couple years later GM decides to do it all in house.
<cmaloney> yep
<jrwren> I'm actually a huge fan of all in house. Look at Quicken Loans
<jrwren> or look at any company which claims to be a tech comany
<wolfger> then Chrysler says "GM did this, so we're going to do it (even though GM stopped)
<jrwren> I read a quote a copule days ago from CEO of Chevron. He said they are a technology company, not an oil company.
<jrwren> Because the tech for drilling an deliver changes so fast.
<jrwren> Its a good mentality to have.
<cmaloney> yes, we have a cock-eyed auto indistry because they keep one eye on the competition
<wolfger> the problem with in-house at FCA is that they are a car company and don't give a shit about computer programs (outside of in-vehicle systems)
<wolfger> so when they do it in-house, they do it with virtually no budget or support
<wolfger> or buy-in
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> brb
<wolfger> but when they go outside, then the people who do the work don't really care if FCA gets what they need, as long as they get what they asked for and was quoted.
<wolfger> it's a total lose-lose for the company
<jrwren> FCA?
<brousch> https://www.forrester.com/Software+Must+Enrich+Your+Brand/fulltext/-/E-RES104924
<wolfger> Fiat Chrysler Automobiles
<wolfger> They stopped being Chrysler some time ago. It'll be 5 years before people stop calling them Chrysler though
<wolfger> by then they'll probably change hands again.
<wolfger> or just drop the Chrysler name entirely I think
<jrwren> brousch: WAT?
<brousch> It's a report from Forrester on this topic and costs $500, so even CEOs will believe it
<jrwren> hahaha
<wolfger> rofl
<wolfger> I was wondering why it cost $500 or who would pay that much for it
<cmaloney> wolfger: It's an old ploy
<cmaloney> people feel more attachment to something they spend real money on
<cmaloney> even if that information isn't terribly good
<emodzhi> which is why FOSS has such trouble
<emodzhi> it doesn't cost enough
<cmaloney> precisely
<emodzhi> it doesn't get any lines in budgets, and hence doesn't exist to decision makers
<emodzhi> and technical influencers aren't put in the position of arguing for it, and so they spend less time convincing themselves of its utility
<emodzhi> it's quite perverted, really.
<cmaloney> Which is why Red Hat is brilliant for charging folks for FLOSS.
<emodzhi> yup
<jrwren> I was thinking IBM
<cmaloney> IBM is one of those companies that I continue to boggle at how they can get something so right and over time manage to get it so wrong.
<cmaloney> it's like they have this "suck" field (like Star Trek)
<emodzhi> it's their very special niche
<jrwren> IBM is huge, more employees than MSFT or GOOG last time I looked
<jrwren> much like those companies, there are going to be much variation of suck, mediocrety, and good.
<cmaloney> And a shining example of marketing and impllementation by committee
<jrwren> definitely true of everything GOOG i've seen lately.
<jrwren> and most things MSFT with very few exceptions.
<cmaloney> Yeah, they're starting to get their big-company schitzophrenia
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> (likely sp)
<cmaloney> MSFT is in a very strange place
<cmaloney> They seem like they're back in embrace mode
<cmaloney> But it's the first fime I've seen them actually embrace, not choke.
<jrwren> cmaloney: it depends on the area.
<jrwren> msft also has a lot of smoke and mirrors going on right now.
<cmaloney> Developer area seems embracing
<jrwren> like, ".net on linux"
<jrwren> but then you look at what is actually there, and its nothing usable.
<jrwren> or rather, its usable for dev and toy
<cmaloney> Ah
<jrwren> it is nothing production ready.
<cmaloney> Well then I'll update back to "cautiously optimistic"
<cmaloney> Apple is down to "Please figure out how to resurrect Steve Jobs"
<jrwren> i'm optimistic about apple.
<cmaloney> I think they need a seance.
<jrwren> but they aren't open at all.
<jrwren> in fact, they intentionally close things
<cmaloney> No, and they're even more closed than before
<jrwren> see LLVM and swift :(
<cmaloney> if that's possible.
<jrwren> I think they were only open before out of necessity
<cmaloney> They pulled the old System 7 archives.
<jrwren> wha?
<cmaloney> http://www.earlymacintosh.org/disk_images.html
<cmaloney> Check the System 6.0 area
<brousch> wat? cmaloney wants to play Go?
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, I'd like to get back into it
<cmaloney> and I can't think of a better way than getting trounced.
<brousch> Well I've been stuck at 25k for a long time
<cmaloney> Apparently i'm not getting email notifications though.
<cmaloney> http://pnacl-amiga-emulator.appspot.com/
<jrwren> SO EVIL!!! https://plus.google.com/+gimp/posts/cxhB1PScFpe
<jrwren> I din't htink pnacl was still a thing
<jrwren> ha, its not, even teh link on that page is dead.
<cmaloney> OK, if that's true then SF is pretty much dead to me.
<jrwren> i wonder what they would sell SF for.
<jrwren> maybe some devs should pool togethre and buy it, for the good of the world :)
<cmaloney> Man, this is a bad week for historic me.
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: what makes you say that?
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/JTSZxpVPNCr
<cmaloney> DrDaemonEye: ^^
<DrDaemonEye> I'll have to look at it tonight
<brousch> Ah geez
<cmaloney> brousch: I know. this pisses me off on many levels, not the least of which are good people are getting the shaft because of short-sighted decisions.
<cmaloney> Had this discussion with the (then) community manager when they started this bullshit.
<cmaloney> He didn't last long there, sadly.
<brousch> Hm, I have seen brondsema in a long time, but I think he still works there
<cmaloney> Last I saw him he was still there, but that was over a year ago
<brousch> He got busy getting married and a house and such and hasn't been to GRPUG in a while
<jcastro> it is raining
<jcastro> I just want like one day so I can grill
<jrwren> its raining again?  YAY!
<cmaloney> jcastro: It's karmic payback for those wonderful photos you took last weekend. ;)
<jcastro> I was more north than I am here though
<cmaloney> we know
<cmaloney> I was busily mowing a lawn. :)
<jcastro> yeah lawn is out of control growing fast
<jcastro> dandelions are insane this year
<cmaloney> I'm about to give up on our back yard and just charge people to hunt there.
<cmaloney> Also: reminder: CHC early edition tonight
<jrwren> i'm going to cut grass in 2.5 hrs :)
<jrwren> I only like the rain because of plants in teh garden
<_stink_> jrwren: i got a mechanical mower.  i love it
<_stink_> you are right about the workout
<jrwren> yeah, last time i used it, it was a real workout. this time of year is the worst.
<cmaloney> I wish our grass could be mowed with the mechanical mower.
<jrwren> july and august it gets easier
<cmaloney> too hilly in back
<cmaloney> Previous owners had greyhounds
<brousch> I had to weed-whack the entire backyard last weekend because I let it get too long
<cmaloney> apparently their hobby was digging to China
<jrwren> oh yeah, bumps really suck
<cmaloney> Our previous house was nice and flat. Could get some decent mowing with the push mower without any problems.
<jrwren> it never rained here :(
<cmaloney> You wanted it too much
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> not sure what is going on at bean and leaf but it is packed
<cmaloney> so i am bailing
<cmaloney> "Birmingham Groves and Seaholm high schools âLive! In Concert: Charity Fashion Showâ to benefit Birmingham Youth Assistance, 6:30-8:30 p.m. May 27 at Bean & Leaf CafÃ© in Royal Oak. Tickets are $5 for students and $8 for adults in advance at the main office of Groves High School, $10 at the door."
<cmaloney> If anyone wants to have CHC at our place LMK and I'll PM you the address.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-28
<cmaloney> Evening
<jrwren> ha! i thought hot topic was buying only the thinkgeek part. its buying all of geek net!
<cmaloney> That's all that's left
<cmaloney> SF.net and /. are Dice.com
<jrwren> oh!
<jrwren> i thought sf.net was part of this.
<brousch> Anyone going to this? https://a2makerfaire.wordpress.com/
<cmaloney> Don't think I'll be able to make it
<cmaloney> Dad's birthday celebrations.
<jrwren> yes, i'll be tehre.
<jrwren> its usually pretty interesting
<brousch> St Joseph mini makerfaire is this weekend
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<ColonelPanic001> rickh really should be Kerry King for halloween one year if he hasn't already.
<jrwren> kerry king?
<ColonelPanic001> http://luckydevilann.sweb.cz/Kerry.jpg
<ColonelPanic001> guitarist/songwriter/etc for Slayer
<ColonelPanic001> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/14-06-08_RiP_Slayer_Kerry_King_1.JPG
<cmaloney> I think Kerry Kings should be rick for halloween
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> ha
<ColonelPanic001> they should go trick or treating together, dressed up as each other
<ColonelPanic001> Tom Araya and rms should do the same thing
<cmaloney> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-29
<wolfger> good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I'm in training at the moment
<cmaloney> having remote training == A+
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> anybody here have an ergo keyboard they're really happy with?
<phwelo> gm.  kinda cool that there's a MI linux channel on the network that i was already idling daily..
<mrgoodcat> well hello
<phwelo> ..thinking that i'll probably join MUG as well since it takes place right behind the building i work at :)
<mrgoodcat> They'd love to have you. I've been to a couple meetings but my school schedule rarely lets me get over there
<phwelo> the topics look pretty beneficial.  would have liked to have learned about it in time to attend the bind presentation
<mrgoodcat> think that was last month right?
<mrgoodcat> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NmklxfOnfo
<mrgoodcat> and there you go
<mrgoodcat> DNS in the Enterprise
<phwelo> already subscribed and put it in my list ;)
<phwelo> ty kindly though of course!
<mrgoodcat> I don't attend but I try to watch the videos when i get time
<phwelo> i'd never get approval to switch from windows DNS, but would love to get rid of my home windows server dns/dhcp.
<mrgoodcat> home windows server?
<mrgoodcat> what posessed you to set up a windows server at home?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: You might want to wait until next week / next CHC. Rick has more experience with ergo keyboards
<cmaloney> also I think greg-g uses ergo keyboards.
<cmaloney> I personally can't stand them.
<cmaloney> phwelo: We're always looking for new members / talks. :)
<cmaloney> he nice thing is we meet every month
<phwelo> i began my career as a windows admin, but have been moving more and more toward linux as time passes.  at this point i'm fairly unhappy with microsoft's server offering altogether
<cmaloney> the fun part is we meet every month and need content. :)
<cmaloney> Cool!
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've been pleased with Linux as a server (and as a desktop. ;))
<mrgoodcat> we have a windows domain controller at work
<mrgoodcat> its about the only thing i use windows for by choice
<phwelo> i really prefer it as a server offering.  honestly i still go back and forth on my laptop.  right now i'm doing the XFCE thing and it's decent
<cmaloney> Yeah, we're doing the same thing with Linux / Samba at work
<cmaloney> phwelo: That's cool. I"m using Unity, but I've always been partial to the Mac.
<cmaloney> phwelo: Did you join the Meetup group for MUG?
<mrgoodcat> I like unity
<phwelo> cmaloney: i agree.  i can't figure out this hackintosh business on my current computer though and my macbook has gone senile
<mrgoodcat> but i use i3 right now
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I wish I could use a tiling window manager without wanting to hurt myself.
<cmaloney> closest I've come is using tmux
<phwelo> cmaloney: i haven't signed up for anything yet, the page seems to still show the previous meeting (if that's even what you're referring to)
<phwelo> also tmux4lyfe
<cmaloney> http://www.meetup.com/Michigan-usr-group-Linux-Users-Group-in-Farmington-Hills/
<cmaloney> phwelo: Yeah, I've been slacking on getting hte next meeting notice out
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: what's the issue with tiling WMs?
<cmaloney> The next meeting will cover Nagios, along with a discussion on how to preserve data for future generations
<phwelo> is all of the content relating to debian-based linux or does it go whichever way the presenter chooses?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: The issue is me. :)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<phwelo> cmaloney: nagios is one of the only topics i'm quite versed on, so maybe i'll come in handy right away!
<cmaloney> phwelo: We cover mostly Linux these days, but we cover FreeBSD as well
<cmaloney> phwelo: Awesome!
<cmaloney> Anything UNIX is fair game.
<phwelo> sorry, i meant RHL based vs Debian based
<cmaloney> Right, I'm trying to say (obliquely) that we're more than just Ubuntu / Debian
<cmaloney> or even just Linux
<jrwren> if rhl v. debian is an issue, you need to step up your game :p
<cmaloney> If Sun does something interesting then we'll cover it.
<cmaloney> We also cover development as well as administation
<cmaloney> I'm a developer with strong devops tendencies (Working with Ansible at the moment)
<phwelo> sweet, looking forward.
<jrwren> unless by RHL v. Debian you really mean ancient kernel v. newer kernel :p
<jrwren> cmaloney: you know ansible?!?!  cool, imma ask U stuffs
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm targeting CentOS right now. It's like I'm wearing bell-bottoms
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'm just learning right now. ;)
<phwelo> jrwren: yeah for debian i have package names memorized, i know the structure, i know where my configs live, etc etc etc
<mrgoodcat> I did the LFS project once
<jrwren> phwelo: ah, familiarity. What is that saying about familiarity?
<phwelo> but i know that a lot of commercial entities use RHL
<mrgoodcat> I haven't personally seen RHEL at a workplace yet
<mrgoodcat> idk if i'm an edge case though
<cmaloney> Yeah, I've only seen CentOS
<mrgoodcat> i've seen cent and debian
<cmaloney> but then again I work at places that are allergic to support contracts for OSes
<mrgoodcat> and one place that used ubuntu servers
<phwelo> true, mostly centos, i'm lumping debian/ubuntu and rhel/centos/fedora
<cmaloney> We have some Ubuntu machines acting as servers.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'd regard RHEL as an anomaly.
<phwelo> but i'm aiming for the west coast and see a huge trend of centos unfortunately
<cmaloney> if I saw Oracle Linux in the wild I'd really freak out
<phwelo> cmaloney: i've seen it in job postings recently! yuck
<cmaloney> Oracle Linux? Yipes.
<cmaloney> CentOS isn't bad by any stretch; just feels clunky to me compared with Debian
<phwelo> but yeah my wife says i'd better make some friends so i'm going to multitask and socialize while learning stuff.  glad to make you guys' acquaintance
<cmaloney> And it's o-l-d.
<cmaloney> Hey, we all started new. :)
<phwelo> i always hit dependency issues that i can't use the package manager to meet, and it annoys the heck out of me
<jrwren> ubuntu makes a great server os.
<mrgoodcat> yea i like ubuntu server
<jrwren> ubuntu-cloud-image is the most used OS in the cloud.
<mrgoodcat> its what i use for my personal servers
<jrwren> I was very surprised to see that Jono quote recently where he implied ubuntu desktop and debian server.
<phwelo> what's different between the cloud-image and servers?
<jrwren> phwelo: about 600MB :)
<cmaloney> They're minimal images then?
<jrwren> phwelo: cloud-image is about 400MB used deployed.  200MB compressed images.
<phwelo> lol, isn't that like an 800m iso (server)?
 * cmaloney doesn't know. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: they are minimal with some special cloud stuff like cloud-init
<cmaloney> Ah, OK.
<phwelo> do they have orchestration of any sort built in?
<cmaloney> I've been playing with LXC and wondered why CentOS didn't ship with things like Tar
<cmaloney> so something tells me it's more about getting the image down in size than anything
<cmaloney> phwelo: You just entered the Juju sales zone
<cmaloney> jrwren works on Juju
<cmaloney> smoser works on Ubuntu Server
<phwelo> oh neat
<jrwren> even still, juju isn't built into ubuntu cloud img
<jrwren> so I'd answer "no"
<jrwren> and that orchestration with puppet, chef or juju can be added trivially and others, likely trivially, but I don't nkow
<jrwren> cmaloney: really? it doesn't have tar?
<phwelo> that's kind of the benefit to that crowd, how easy it is to add them to a minion/target/whatever
<phwelo> alright jrwren i'm going to bite, does juju do baremetal provisioning?
<mrgoodcat> oh boy
<mrgoodcat> juju is the best
<jrwren> phwelo: yes, it does.
<jrwren> phwelo: it uses a provider model. maas is one of the provider models
<phwelo> strangely enough, there aren't a ton of options that do
<jrwren> its cool doing bare betal deploys, the image install might take a bit longer, but once you are running, OMG it is so fast.
<jrwren> its easy to forget how slow cloud instances are.
<phwelo> what does it use for the pxe part, or is it built ground-up?
<jrwren> small, medium, large, SOOO SLOW!!!
<jrwren> phwelo: its all open source. you can go use maas yourself right now.
<jrwren> phwelo: it is an automation of the debian/ubuntu network boot stuff that has always been there, with a nice web frontend
<phwelo> total tangent, but does ubuntu have a presence in s/e mi?
<jrwren> phwelo: you are in it.
<cmaloney> jrwren: At least the image I am using with LXC doesn't have tar. I had to include it.
<phwelo> ah man i need to suck up, my long term goal is to get the F out of the financial world and into a legit tech company (without losing an ungodly chunk of salary in the transition)
<jrwren> cmaloney: did you use the lxc-download template and choose centos from the list?
<jrwren> phwelo: financial world is pretty great from what I hear.
<cmaloney> I did lxc-create -r centos --name foo -- R 6
<cmaloney> also: Legit tech companies are pretty scattershot.
<cmaloney> some are awesome. Most are fair to good.
<cmaloney> and some are pretty terrible.
<phwelo> cmaloney: kind of like any business really i'm sure
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> I worked in the automotive industry for a long while. The corporate lines were pretty heavy into Microsoft. Fortunately I was able to carve out some Linux
<cmaloney> depends on the manager and their willingness to buck the trend.
<cmaloney> phwelo: Are you at Quicken Loans?
<jrwren> oh right, that is financial. :)
<phwelo> getting into a company who's developing tech serves a bunch of goals for me tho.  i want to work around people who i can learn from, i want budget going into IT, I want a freaking test environment, I want to be able to sleep at night, and i want to never tell my children i work for a bank
<phwelo> nah not quicken.  though nearly half of the people you meet in metro detroit seem to work there!
<cmaloney> phwelo: I can sympathize
<cmaloney> I'm in marketing. :)
<cmaloney> Though I'm in a company where the current management is exceptionally clueful about tech
<cmaloney> at least as it relates to me
<cmaloney> But yeah, getting an opportunity to work with folks who are making the stuff you use is awesome.
<cmaloney> I worked at Sourceforge for a bit. Worked with the guy who maintains rsync.
<cmaloney> and worked with mramm who maintained Turbogears for a while.
<phwelo> idk turbogears, but rsync is a pretty big deal!
<phwelo> can't wait til the kids are a little older and i can work on a project on the side :)
<cmaloney> I can't say you won't be able to sleep at night though
<cmaloney> s/won't/will/
<jrwren> phwelo: Shore Mortgage?
<cmaloney> heh, we're going down the list. ;)
<jrwren> more interested if we have any common aquaintences
<cmaloney> Same
<cmaloney> Only other one I can think of is the auto-financials.
<jrwren> cmaloney: so that centos lxc template is kind of cool. it doesn't look to install based on an image at all. It creates a filesystem and installs packages. It is its own installer.
<cmaloney> yeah, it's pretty strange / neat how it works
<cmaloney> when it asked me to install alien I figured it was going into strange and wonderful worlds.
<cmaloney> and it looks like it updates every image and doesn't cache.
<cmaloney> or rather it caches and does the update each install
<cmaloney> (somewhere in there is what I mean)
<jrwren> http://stevekinney.github.io/face-theremin/
<cmaloney> http://helb.github.io/goodbye-sourceforge/
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's pretty awesome
<phwelo> kinda interesting that all it took was one large project pointing it out, when they've been doing the same thing for a year or two without much noise
<cmaloney> GIMP is the first project to make noise about it because it's the first project that was appropriated despite their objections
<jrwren> yes, my understanding is that they did it often without notice, but would undo it if asked.
<jrwren> now they aren't undoing it
<phwelo> i'd imagine the first point to be enough to move your project
<cmaloney> well, there's nuance
<cmaloney> they have an ad-sponsored program for revenue sharing
<cmaloney> via the downloaders
<cmaloney> GIMP refused and abandoned the project
<cmaloney> SF.net doesn't delete projects if they release files
<cmaloney> so after 18 months of abandonment they picked up the project
<cmaloney> where it gets douchey is they continued to mirror GIMP Windows packages and added the adware on top
<cmaloney> (which is my understanding)
<jrwren> seems close to a GPL violation. sad that it isn't.
<cmaloney> It's not GPL since it's binary distro
<cmaloney> the original project was binary distro
<cmaloney> again, some nuance in there
<jrwren> um...
<jrwren> GPL specifically covers binary distro.
<jrwren> its not a GPL violation because its an installer which install 2 things. GPL software and malware.
<cmaloney> Yep
<jrwren> if anyone wants to trade their email to enter a free chair contest: http://virl.io/FUGoMtmk
<phwelo> that is one fugly chair, but sure why not
<phwelo> wth is twitch?
<wolfger> video streaming. Typically video games
<phwelo> ah a coworker was telling me about this, how his kid will just sit and watch other people watch videogames for hours
<phwelo> s/watch/play
<ColonelPanic001> god, that stuff
<ColonelPanic001> that sounds terribly boring
<greg-g> I uh... did that once, but I was sitting in a dorm room watching my friend play the game in person, and only for like 30 minutes
<ColonelPanic001> it was college. he was experimenting.
<greg-g> exactly
<phwelo> is anyone in southfield?  is it raining over there?
<brousch> my son does it on youtube sometimes
<brousch> mostly for the crazy comments from whoever is playing
<cmaloney> phwelo: I'm around Royal Oak. It was raining hard for a bit
<cmaloney> Seems to have let up
<phwelo> hopefully it's not travelling my way.  people drive poorly in the rain
<brousch> off and on since lunch for me
<wolfger> watching other people play video games is a thing now, I guess. "E-sports". I don't get it.
<wolfger> but it's a real thing, with money and everything for the best players
<greg-g> money doesn't make things real
<greg-g> because money isn't real
<greg-g> come on man
<greg-g> :P
<wolfger> friggin' hippie. You can't buy food with hugs.
<wolfger> ...or I'd be fatter than I am.
<jrwren> i watch people play video games for hours. I'm nuts about starcraft2
<jrwren> it has a larger economy than the NHL
<phwelo> oh yeah, i saw something about an "e-games" player retiring at the ripe age of like 20 from repetitive something injury in his hands
<jcastro> I watched the International on ESPN
<jcastro> thinking it would be stupid
<jcastro> but it was awesome
<jrwren> i'm watching WCS right now.
<jcastro> which one is that?
<jcastro> DOTA isn't as fun to watch as counterstrike to me
<jrwren> starcraft2
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-30
<jrwren> I just posted a tiny patch. I hope it get accepted. Could be really nice to have. https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/software-properties/support-update/+merge/260640
<cmaloney> nice!
<jrwren> cmaloney: you didn't tell me Wendy Carlos was a bad ass.
<jrwren> I thought she only played compositions. I didn't know she built instruments and built her own 8 track
<cmaloney> jrwren: I know, right?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-05-31
<tony-smlr> SMLR Live going live soon Video: http://youtu.be/ZV2NZX9I1mY Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> apparently dnf is replacing yum
<cmaloney> further proving that programmers don't know how to name things
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-30
<jrwren> what is Northern Lights?
<jrwren> Waht is Highland Festival?
<cmaloney> Highland Festival sounds like something Scottish
<cmaloney> Northern Light I have NFC
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> jrwen, Northern Lights is a nightclub in Midtown Detroit
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> evening time
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> party party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-05-31
<cmaloney> woo woo
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning!
<shakes808> morning
<mrgoodcat> morn
<shakes808> How was everyone's weekend?
<jrwren> excellent and wonderful but it went too quickly.
<jrwren> how was your weekend?
<cmaloney> Was pretty good overall
<cmaloney> Played way too much Neo Geo Pocket.
<shakes808> jrwren: same.  could use another day or three ;)
<shakes808> cmaloney: HAHA!  Seriously?  You have one?!  That is awesome!  What game(s) were you playing?
<shakes808> brings me back to road trips with the family and my Sega Game Gear
<_stink_> game gear, the battery eater.
<cmaloney> shakes808: I have one, but I also found a really good emulator on Android
<cmaloney> so I was checking out the titles that I didn't have yet
<shakes808> haha, sweet
<mrgoodcat> it was ok until my car got towed
<mrgoodcat> out of my parking lot
<mrgoodcat> where i live
<mrgoodcat> and pay rent
<shakes808> mrgoodcat: that's shitty!  figure out why?
<mrgoodcat> no idea yet
<mrgoodcat> still waiting on property manager
<mrgoodcat> good thing i have a second car
<jrwren> did you call the police and report it stolen?
<mrgoodcat> not yet
<mrgoodcat> waiting on a call from the parking manager to see if it can be resolved nicely first
<shakes808> how many vehicles do you have?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: That sucks.
<jrwren> who works at ford?
<cmaloney> Not I (used to)
<jrwren> I just got a recruiter call for what sounds like would be a pretty interesting project.
<jrwren> automation and web front end for network configuration.
<mrgoodcat> shakes808: a few
<mrgoodcat> only one on the property though
<jrwren> if anyone wants me to pass along contact info, let me know.
<mrgoodcat> luckily i can get to work with another vehicle. just had to go get it last night
<shakes808> jrwren: did they tell you what company?  a buddy just started something like this.  Just wondering if it is the same thing
<jrwren> Ford
<shakes808> mrgoodcat: that is good.  one day I strive to be like you ;)
<cmaloney> Ford is trying to update their infrastructure
<jrwren> shakes808: is your buddy Bob?
<cmaloney> I think they're tired of giving IBM money
<shakes808> jrwren: that isn't the company that he is working for. Not sure what his company's name is, but it isn't one of the big three haha
<shakes808> cmaloney: Yeah, they are still on mainframe.  they need to get up to the times haha
<jrwren> GM was tired of giving HP money, so they went back to EDS. So HP bought EDS when they lost their GM contract to them.
<jrwren> Private companies are so under rated. Keep things private and things like that won't happen
<mrgoodcat> shakes808: haha what do you mean?
<mrgoodcat> to have a spare car?
<mrgoodcat> i'm driving my project car right now
<mrgoodcat> i had to put the tires back on it last night so i could get to work today
<jrwren> i'm trying to get to be a 1 car family instead of 2. zipcar is cheaper than buying insurance on a second car.
<mrgoodcat> only works if you have the requisite work flexibility
<mrgoodcat> which i dont
<shakes808> mrgoodcat: i almost had a project car, but then realized that 1. I live in an apartment and wouldn't have anywhere to work on it; 2. with the job I had then, wouldn't have any time to work on it; 3. need to save money for other more important things, like life and what not :(
<shakes808> haha
<greg-g> jrwren: does 1 car and 1 RV count? We never drive the RV for normal things :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: boooo, always RV all the things. never know when you might need a cold one or a bathroom break :P
<rick_h_> though single digit mpg is a negative
<jrwren> greg-g: yes, that counds.
<jrwren> wow. counts.
<greg-g> rick_h_: "need a nap, pull over and crawl into bed! Want dinner, pull over and fire up the oven! Stink? Pull over and take a shower!"
<rick_h_> greg-g: exactly!
<mrgoodcat> im not actually sure which of my cars has worse gas mileage
<mrgoodcat> 2004 suburban or 1983 mustang
<mrgoodcat> 2016 F250 is probably sadly the best mpg
<mrgoodcat> although i don't actually own that one
<jrwren> I love the gas milage of the 2012 Accord I-4.
<jrwren> 500 miles to a tank is nice too.
<greg-g> my 2002 subaru is getting to the point where it's basically the same mpg that my 98 ford ranger had (in 2004)
<greg-g> :/
<jrwren> yeah, subaru didn't focus on efficience much before the 2008 crisis.
<jrwren> err, 2007 crisis?  when was it that gas was 4.50/gal?
<greg-g> last week ;)
<greg-g> kidding, though our gas is expensive out here
<jrwren> is it? its gone up a lot in the last 6mo. i dunno if commodity oil prices have gone up 25% like at the pump prices have.
<cmaloney> t's been steadily ratcheting up
<cmaloney> though partly because of summertime driving
<smoser> tony's discuss post is so temping. http://paste.ubuntu.com/16870311/
<_stink_> yes.
<jrwren> its not really.
<jrwren> did you look up the specs?
<jrwren> did you look on ebay. they are often had for under $300 on ebay.
<jrwren> its a 6+yrs old CPU.
<jrwren> the 72GB of ram is pretty awesome.
<jrwren> but even with 6 cores, that CPU is going to be slower than a i5 from a couple of years ago, for many tasks.
<cmaloney> But it's still a decent machine
<jrwren> 72GB of ram... so tempting!
<jrwren> how much does 72GB of ram cost?
<cmaloney> Checking Crucial
<cmaloney> 32GB of DDR-4 is ~$200
<jrwren> so its a great deal.
<mrgoodcat> its ddr-3 ram
<cmaloney> For the RAM alone yeah
<cmaloney> would make a great VBox host
<mrgoodcat> 64G of DDR3 ECC is 400$
<mrgoodcat> on newegg
<cmaloney> So yeah, you're buying the RAM at a discount and getting a  machine for free.
<cmaloney> ;)
<mrgoodcat> smoser: what list was that posted on?
<cmaloney> MUG Discuss mailing list
<smoser> mrgoodcat, http://mail.mug.org/pipermail/discuss_mug.org/2016-May/000648.html
<smoser> sorry, before couldnt be bothered to look up an actual useful link :)
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> is that tony-smlr?
<smoser> i dont know. that is not ddr-4 though rpboably
<smoser> right ? jrwren
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yes, it is
<smoser> 8G sticks are $25 of ddr3. so 9 is $225-ish.
<smoser> http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-12800-204-Pin-Notebook-CT102464BF160B/dp/B006YG8X9Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461776861&sr=8-1&keywords=laptop+ram+8gb+ddr3+1600
<jrwren> probably not.
<jrwren> given its 6yrs old, it might even be DDR2
<cmaloney> It's ECC though
<smoser> oh. thats laptop that i pointed at.  i'm guessing it is ddr3.
<jrwren> but even still, if its ECC, its a whole diff world.
<smoser> so , yeah. its a lot of ram :)
<cmaloney> I bought one of the earlier machines he was offering. It's a CAD station
<smoser> other thing is that at 6 years old, its sata II
<smoser> (300MB/s)
<smoser> so a reasonable ssd is going to saturate that
<cmaloney> Thing weighs a metric shit-ton
<cmaloney> I didn't think Dell made things that heavy anymore
<mrgoodcat> it says DDR3 and ECC
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-01
<rick_h_> morning
<mrgoodcat> hi
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> cmaloney: CHC tonight?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Planning on it
<rick_h_> cmaloney: party time
<cmaloney> Woo woo!
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+SageLaTorra/posts/27Z4yW94RMf
<cmaloney> I will never understand PHP
<_stink_> hahaha
<cmaloney> I have never seen another language go through as many hoops to get it wrong
<cmaloney> with the exception of Javascript
<jrwren> c++?
<jrwren> its gotta be up there with js and php.
<cmaloney> Does C++ parse a string to get the numbers out of it? :)
<jrwren> yes. so does C
<cmaloney> wut?
<jrwren> atoi()
<cmaloney> No no no nono
<cmaloney> I mean taking "3" + "I have 5 bananaas" and returning 8
<jrwren> hhahahaa, no, not by default or course.
<cmaloney> type conversion I understand
<jrwren> yes, I think implicit type conversion should be considered BAD
<cmaloney> but that's just brain-damaged
<jrwren> imagine how much simpler JS would be if it didn't have implicit type conversion.
<cmaloney> Some conversion I don't mind a while lot
<jrwren> then again, python has it and its simple and understandable,s o I don't nkow.
<cmaloney> (I come from Perl so take that with a grain of salt)
<jrwren> yes, a small well defined set, or even an extensible set can be OK.
<jrwren> i come from perl too, and it was never an issue there.
<jrwren> I guess JS and PHP just fucked it up
<cmaloney> Well, went way too far at the very least
<jrwren> yeah, maybe that is it.
<cmaloney> if you have "2324" and add that to 3 then your choices are either to fail, treat as a string, or convert to integer
<cmaloney> but having "3FFF" + 3 convert to 6? I can't fathom where that would be appropriate
<jrwren> or... do the sane thing and treat 3 as a char literal and append ascii(3) to the string and get 2324^@
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'd accept that, even though that would be surprising
<jrwren> it would? hrm. yeah, I guess maybe it would be.
<cmaloney> I think that's why PHP and Javascript are languages I don't like: they act in surprising ways
<cmaloney> and not good surprises
<jrwren> same here. but that is OUR problem, because we've been conditioned to expect things one way, and they do things another.
<cmaloney> like VB conversions to variant
<cmaloney> or True = -1
<jrwren> everything is a variant!
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-02
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> morning
<wolfger> morning
<mrgoodcat> hi
<greg-g> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> take 2
<cmaloney> West-coast morning
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-03
<_stink_> cmaloney: you get anyone toj oin in your june of learning?
<cmaloney> Other than JoDee> Not really.
<cmaloney> posting my first blog post about it.
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2016/06/02/learning-challenge---6502-assembly:-days-1-2/
<_stink_> awesome!
<_stink_> may join you.
<cmaloney> Feel free. We can spur each other on. :)
<mrgoodcat> how often will you post?
<cmaloney> Ideally daily
<cmaloney> http://zenhabits.net/challenge/
<_stink_> cmaloney: you have any ideas of what you'd like to try writing?
<cmaloney> Not sure
<cmaloney> I'm more just reading along with the book right now
<cmaloney> although I want to get into playing a bit with player missile graphics on the Atari
<cmaloney> that's 10 y/o me talking
<cmaloney> Wanting to be Chris Crawford
<_stink_> hah, awesome
<_stink_> this book is actually funny.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's a really good book
<cmaloney> Will be tackling the assemblers chapter tomorrow
<_stink_> cool, i'll zip through the monitor chapter tonight
<_stink_> riding your coattails
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<_stink_> i really wanted you to pick lisp
<_stink_> but
<_stink_> i will survive
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> Next month
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vexfGMjEY
<jrwren> awe yeah... first time crossing 11000KB/s since moving inet from 100Mbit nic to 1Gbit nic
<jrwren> i guess that is technically only 90Mbit... but still faster than I've ever seen.
<jrwren> oh! and that rate isn't even counting the amazon prime video I'm watching ;]
<jrwren> retro peeps: how much data fit onto a 20min, 30min, 60min, 90min audio cassette when the cassette was used to store data on a C64 or Atari system?
<jrwren> really, i just mean cmaloney. ;]
<cmaloney> I have NFC
<cmaloney> my Atari 400 was goofed up. :)
<cmaloney> iirc though it was similar to a Teletype in how it stored data.
<cmaloney> http://www.atariarchives.org/dere/chaptC.php
<cmaloney> 600 baud
<jrwren> yeah, I knew it was a modem. but HOW MUCH?!?!
<jrwren> I must find out!
<jrwren> i cannot sleep now.
<jrwren> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1478120  2MB!
<cmaloney> Yeah, not a whole lot. :)
<cmaloney> worse: C90 and C120 are pretty much useless for data
<jrwren> i vaguely recall that.
<jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Cassette#Data_recording  oh! great article
<jrwren> and it says EVEN WORSE!  660KB / side of a 90min tape
<jrwren> ok, I can sleep now.
<cmaloney> Yeah, because they're not taking data frame markers into account
<cmaloney> and checksums
<cmaloney> also depends on baud
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> these days, i wonder what you could do.
<cmaloney> Apparently the Atari was hamstrung on the SIO bus because of the FCC regs in place
<cmaloney> which was why you couldn't get true 19.2 kbps out of it
<jrwren> qam256, error correction and maybe you could fit a few CDs worth of mp3 onto a cassette ;]
<cmaloney> even though it theoretically could do that
<jrwren> ok, enough. good night ;]
<cmaloney> l8r
<cmaloney> DCC
<cmaloney> Also: Adam cassettes. ;)
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleco_Adam#Technical_details
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> cmaloney: did you grab a better assembler for linapple?  or just using the mini-assembler?
<cmaloney> I grabbed Merlin
<cmaloney> but had fun trying to create a "blank disk"
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> any links or advice?
<cmaloney> finally just grabbed a "demo" disk image
<cmaloney> Yeah, one sec.
<cmaloney> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dlmwmyh5qc2pn6g/AAAeXbQ-3RoEMgIRZwZg2GTCa?dl=0
<cmaloney> if you want a few minutes a manual might show up in there
<_stink_> awesome, thanks!
<cmaloney> np
<_stink_> cmaloney: i mount demo.dsk, then ctrl-shift-f2, yes?
<greg-g> performance reviews... they're good but draining
<greg-g> (writing them, that is, as a manager)
<cmaloney> _stink_: You'll want to use f4 to put demo.dsk on the second drive
<cmaloney> and f3 to put Merlin on drive 1
<_stink_> aha, beautiful.  thanks
<rick_h_> greg-g: :/ at the instagram
<rick_h_> been there...
<rick_h_> 'hi family, back from a sprint. ummm...why isthe wall blue?'
<cmaloney> ?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-04
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2016/06/03/learning-challenge---6502-assembly:-day-3/
<_stink_> nice!
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-06-05
<tony-smlr> We are live: SMLR E196/E197 (6/5/2016) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHzIyOXE2Q
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> watching Superman: The Movie (1978) with lilly. ZOMG i've never seen it in HD. It looks great.
<cmaloney> The Christopher Reeves one?
<cmaloney> I've only seen it on video tape. :)
<gamerchick02> oooo
<gamerchick02> jrwren sounds like you're having a good time
<jrwren> I've never seen the Extended Edition. The cut scenes are really fun.
<gamerchick02> cool
<gamerchick02> i should find a copy! :)
<rick_h_> sounds like fun jrwren
<rick_h_> jrwren: I found the original transoformers cartoon series and watched them all with my boy.
<rick_h_> jrwren: if you have the movie <3 because I can't figure out how to buy it any more
<rick_h_> and not worth $60/$90 http://smile.amazon.com/Transformers-Movie-20th-Anniversary-Special/dp/B000H6SY5K/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1465154789&sr=1-2
<brousch> Our current devops/qa guy is leaving the company, so I may move into more devops stuff. This could be fun
<gamerchick02> hey is anyone else getting massive pixelation on NBC during the rugby?
<gamerchick02> OTA antenna.
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: I think you're the only person watching Rugby. :)
<gamerchick02> well dang
<_stink_> i wish i were watching rugby
<_stink_> gamerchick02: college 7s?
<_stink_> that was on yseterday
<gamerchick02> it's on again today
<gamerchick02> the second part of it
<cmaloney> Is it like Cricket where they play until one team has to use the restroom?
<cmaloney> or dies of boredom?
<cmaloney> :)
<gamerchick02> no! 7 minute halves. it's really quick. put NBC on if it's coming in for you
<rick_h_> brousch: sounds like a party
<gamerchick02> _stink_ it's done now. i'm trying to watch golf but CBS is doing the pixel thing now. argh
<_stink_> the air is not a truck, it's a series of tubes
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-30
<rick_h> evening
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> at least in an hour and such
<rick_h> heh, morning wheeee
<cmaloney> Good morning
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<notlikethesoup> feels like the first day back after a long weekend
<notlikethesoup> that's for sure
<notlikethesoup> you?
<cmaloney> Yesterday felt like Sunday
<cmaloney> partially because we went grocery shopping with everyone else
<rick_h> heh, gotta love it
<rick_h> so so sore today
<cmaloney> biking?
<rick_h> no, lake time. tubing, fishing, wresting with the boy...honestly I'm not sure what all I guess.
<rick_h> little fishing
<rick_h> biking is tomorrow and now that the bike is upgraded successfully (at least it works in the yard, we'll see if it holds up on the trail) I'm chomping at the bit to get going
<cmaloney> Ah, nice
<cmaloney> heh
<shakes808> morning all
<shakes808> cmaloney: do you know php?  the company i work for is looking for  a backend dev
<shakes808> probably already asked but my company is currently looking and wanted to put that out there again
<cmaloney> I don't know PHP
<cmaloney> But thank you.
<shakes808> yeah, no problem
<shakes808> how was the weekend?
<cmaloney> It was OK. Not too much happening
<cmaloney> you?
<shakes808> just cleaned the garage and bbq'd with the family.   started to make some cornhole boards with the boy.  found my original version of d&d ( first ed ) and the boy and I are spinning up characters to run a small campaign haha
<cmaloney> nice!
<shakes808> does anyone know sass / less /css?
<brousch__> I've used them.
<cmaloney> I have plenty of sass, and I'm trying to do more with less
<cmaloney> (yes I know that's not it)
<brousch__> cmaloney: Come on, you're our front-end expert now
<cmaloney> orly?
<shakes808> HAHA,
<shakes808> i am sure that it is the plugin ( extension ) that i am using, but it isn't compiling down all my sass / scss files to css.  It is blowing up on the "@import" and "@include" lines..   but when I run the file straight command line ( which i would assume the plugin is doing ) it looks like it works and then doesn't show up when i us the plug in again.
<shakes808> IDE Visual Studio Code
<shakes808> Plugin  Easy Sass
<shakes808> Any ideas?
<cmaloney> you're missing a step is the best advice I have
 * cmaloney doesn't know VSC or that plugin
<cmaloney> Is there debug information that it's providing?
<shakes808> not that i can see.  been looking for it.  i was going to go to his github and put in an issue
<cmaloney> Also are there different versions of SASS / LESS?
<cmaloney> Perhaps the @import and @include are new?
<shakes808> yeah, not sure.  :|
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-05-31
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> how goes?
<rick_h> good stuff, worky worky and dying to go riding tonight
<rick_h> having fun down south?
<cmaloney> yeah, not too bad here
<cmaloney> just driving J to work most days
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2017/05/31/100-day-programming-challenge
<rick_h> go cmaloney go!
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/2017/05/june-13-2017-regular-mug-meeting/
<cmaloney> Plenty of time to put it on your calendars. :)
<cmaloney> *cough*
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-01
<gamerchick02> i'm going to be in Niagara Falls, NY
<cmaloney> cool
<cmaloney> over the weekend?
<gamerchick02> no for Supreme Session. the second full week of June
<gamerchick02> hence i'm going to miss Mug
<gamerchick02> i always seem to have something come up when these things go on. ooof
<cmaloney> ah
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> You just need to stop being busy. :)
<Zimdale> don't we all :(
<Zimdale> How much does membership cost cmaloney?
<cmaloney> Zimdale: $35 per year
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/membership/
<cmaloney> You can sign up online and have it auto-renew
<Zimdale> There. Now I just need to actually go to the meet ups
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Schweet!
<cmaloney> Thank you!
<cmaloney> Is that your real address?
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch__> cmaloney: Only 1 hour/day?!
<cmaloney> brousch__: That's at a minimum
<brousch__> OK
<rick_h> morning
<shakes808> morning
<notlikethesoup> morning
<widox> morning
<widox> cmaloney: good luck on the 100 day challenge, sounds like a good way to stay motivated :)
<rick_h> woot woot
<rick_h> what's on the docket for today?
<cmaloney> Not sure. I was thinking of doing a simple RPN calculator
<cmaloney> but trying to parse "3  3 + ." in JavaScript is fun
<cmaloney> esp since '' == 0 which !isNaN
<Zimdale> What is the 100 day challenge?
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2017/05/31/100-day-programming-challenge/
<Zimdale> hah cool
<notlikethesoup> sounds like 100 days of git
<notlikethesoup> (i didn't click it)
<Zimdale> who wouldn't like 100 days of git?
<cmaloney> bzr and mercurial
 * greg-g misses bzr
<notlikethesoup> rip bzr?
<shakes808> if i add a mount to fstab, all i have to do is mount -a and it will remount all the fstab mounts including the one that I added, correct?  or do i have to do something else?
<cmaloney> I think that's right, but there might be exceptions
<greg-g> what's craig said
<jrwren> noauto mount option, for example
<cmaloney> ++
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2017/06/01/day-1100-addendum/ <- fun with JS and function binding.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-06-02
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> cmaloney: https://goo.gl/noNxhd
<shakes808> ^^^ job fair
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> shakes808: Thanks
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Having fun here. Got in to a fender bender last night
<cmaloney> person behind me didn't stop
<cmaloney> nothing serious but now it's "call this, do that".
<cmaloney> and of course it was before taking Pixel to the vet
<cmaloney> whee
<_stink_> :/
<cmaloney> 's all good
<cmaloney> on the plus side: JavaScript has broken my brain enough that I'm enjoying playing with scheme / guile
<cmaloney> so I have that going for me
<shakes808> cmaloney: glad you are alright.
<shakes808> oh boy haha, scheme.  just got away from that.
<cmaloney> WHere were you doing scheme?
<cmaloney> shakes808: Thanks. JoDee went to the hospital because she didn't feel right, but she's fine
<cmaloney> they just pumped her up with aspirin
<shakes808> After MorPACE, I was recruited to United Shore Financial Services.  The system that they had was a thrid party loan origination system and the way you customized it was with scheme.
<shakes808> I believe we talked about it when I was coming to your CHC on Woodward because when i started there, they were just up the road.
<shakes808> they have migrated to C# since, but they still have that third party software running the backend calcs.
<shakes808> they said they were going to be off that system in 1 year ( > 3 year ago ) and they still are using it
<shakes808> they didn't want to listen to some of us and the business "knew better" so they are stuck with it currently and are running more instances of it in the back end then ever because they just don't understand their own calculations for the business that they are in...  :|
<jrwren> shakes808: wait... you worked for Shore? Do you know Matt Rose?
<shakes808> And JoDee didn't feel well because of the accident or is that a separate event?
<shakes808> jrwren: yeah he was the UI lead.  heard he walked out or something,  he was a good guy.   took a lot of shit while he was there
<jrwren> shakes808: they fired him.
<jrwren> shakes808: his is a very good friend of mine.
<shakes808> what for?
<jrwren> "he is"
<jrwren> i don't know. He doesn't really know. I think that new VP came in and wanted to make some waves.
<shakes808> that new vp is a dipshit
<shakes808> another one or two directors left because of him
<shakes808> one of them was asked what would they have to do to keep him, basically said he would stay if they canned the vp
<shakes808> the director put in his 2 weeks on the spot because they said that wasn't going to happen
<shakes808> that place doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground
<shakes808> it is pretty funny to be on the outside looking in.  i still keep in contact with some people there
<shakes808> jrwren: what is matt up to now a days?
<jrwren> he was out of work for a while, now he is working at some consulting place in detriot.
<cmaloney> shakes808: I don't remember you mentioning scheme (or if you did I filed it away in the "huh, that's weird" bucket)
<jrwren> they have office right on woodward, it looks lovely
<cmaloney> but that's cool
<shakes808> jrwren: glad he found something.
<shakes808> cmaloney: yeah, itwas more of a`who the hell is using scheme?!`
<shakes808> it was*
<jrwren> scheme is just a lisp and everyone is using lisp... aren't they?
<cmaloney> JavScript is just a lisp. ;)
<cmaloney> We are all lisp
<jrwren> zactly
<cmaloney> I'm a bit surprised that Logo was essentially a Lisp
 * cmaloney never learned proper logo
<jrwren> me either, apparently.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I had an Atari program called "Turtle" which was a weak little "move the turtle around"
<cmaloney> Never picked up Pilot either from Atari
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PILOT
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCBLogo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-28
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<Scary_Guy> hey
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-29
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> Good morning.
<waldo323> good morning
 * rick_h_ keeps thinking it's monday, realizes it's Tuesday and freaks out that there's not enough time 
<jrwren> there is never enough time.
<rick_h_> true true
<Scary_Guy> https://reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8mw5ms/npm_suddenly_fails_worldwide_with_err_418_im_a/
<cmaloney> NPM makes me wonder how much gasoline it would take to just burn the whole thing down
<jrwren> IKR? I can't believe that is a popular platform.
<cmaloney> thing is I know there are growing pains and what-not for package management
<cmaloney> I get that
<cmaloney> but it just seems like they don't take things quite as seriously as I would like
<jrwren> you can't even run your own mirror
<jrwren> there is no way to point an npm client anywhere but npmjs.org
<jrwren> its not-distributed by design.
<cmaloney> not even with a squid proxy?
<cmaloney> because that's no fun
<jrwren> https w/ certificate checking, so no, not even with.
<cmaloney> ouch
<jrwren> you could trust some cert on teh system, I guess, but that is just BAD
<cmaloney> I know pip recently got caching, but it also got aggressive to the point where you wanted it to shut off
<cmaloney> but still, not having local access to packages is terrible
<jrwren> i dont know how priv orgs do it
<jrwren> you can't make a module and share it internally. its rediculous
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-05-30
<Scary_Guy> https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/4/16805216/google-chrome-only-sites-internet-explorer-6-web-standards
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-01
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<cmaloney> Looking forward to convincing^Wtalking about Mastodon at the next MUG meeting. :)
<cmaloney> Especially a little bit about Peertube, which is pretty exciting
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Loving the pictures of the puppers
<rick_h_> cmaloney: 9 days!
<cmaloney> Can't wait to see this out in the wild as well: https://pixelfed.org/
<cmaloney> What's her name?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: Kona
<Scary_Guy> wait, is peertube still a thing?  or am I thinking of something else?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: definitely want this Portland trip to go fast so I can get home and pick baby Kona up
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: I think you're thinking of something else.
<cmaloney> perhaps
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Awwwwww.
<Scary_Guy> https://hooktube.com  is good, but that wasn't it.  must have been some other service
<Scary_Guy> sounds good though, I'll keep an eye on it
 * greg-g yawns
 * DrDaemonEye offers greg-g coffee
<waldo323> what is hooktube?
 * DrDaemonEye shrugs
<DrDaemonEye> I have yet to click the link
<waldo323> ah, removes tracking, ad revenue etc for youtube
<waldo323> i still didn't click
<DrDaemonEye> ahh
<waldo323> so correct me if i'm wrong
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-06-02
<Scary_Guy> no, that's pretty much it
<Scary_Guy> https://github.com/nvbn/thefuck
<cmaloney> Baby bun buns outside our house:
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/100137823427471002
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-25
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> dist-upgrade paths ftw
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-26
<cmaloney> ahoy
<cmaloney> welcome to summer
<jrwren> so hot
<greg-g> high of 89ish today here
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CasGB8GahZw
 * rick_h checks weather to see if that's sarcasm or what...
<jrwren> same here.
<jrwren> 88 right now.
<jrwren> glad i got out in the woods earlier when it was a little cooler.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-27
<Dekkard> just test drove YardW0rkOS
<Dekkard> Sweatiest distro ever
<jrwren> yeah?!?
<jrwren> i just did a search. no hits.
<Dekkard> yeah.. wriitten entirely in Gr4ss
<jrwren> ah, i see. yur high
<Dekkard> uses libmow, lib weedwack and lib rake
<Dekkard> not for yardwork.. buzzkill
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-28
<jrwren> man... rpi4 8GB now... i think it actually could make an effective workstation replacement for me.
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> https://keivan.io/the-day-appget-died/
<jrwren> WAT?
<jrwren> oh, i read that as aptget for 2seconds
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> It's not quite that, but it's still fun times with Microsoft
<cmaloney> TL;DR: Microsoft released WinGet (Not to be mistaken with AppGet) earlier this week as part of their Build 2020 announcements. For the past few days, Iâve been collecting my thoughts figuring out what actually happened in the past 12 months.
<cmaloney> TLDR; Iâm no longer going to be developing AppGet. The client and backend services will go into maintenance mode immediately until August 1st, 2020, at which point theyâll be shut down permanently.
<jrwren> meh, i don't have much sympathy for the guy.
<jrwren> except for his lack of continuous followup on travel reimbursement
<jrwren> they owe him that.
<cmaloney> And this is why I'm using the GPL. :)
<jrwren> if it were GPL, they never owuld have called him, but would have created the same winget without ever talking to him or offering him a job.
<jrwren> podman might actually do what I was complaining that docker doesn't.
<Scary_Guy> Wow, they screwed that guy.  I'm not surprised.
<jrwren> did they? how so?
<Scary_Guy> No credit.  I mean they could have at least thrown him some cash for the idea too.  Not like they're hurting for cash or anything.
<Scary_Guy> Still better than Apple at least.  They'd have just invited him over and kicked him in the balls then spat on him slamming the office door on their way back in.
<jrwren> is that so?
<Scary_Guy> Well, Apple are notorious dicks.  Maybe not that extreme now that Steve is gone but they're still pretty bad.  Toxic corporate and client culture IMO.
<jrwren> they make some great shit.
<jrwren> damn shame they make it worse while making it better.
<Scary_Guy> Tell that to Louis Rossmann.
<Scary_Guy> I wish he'd stop livestreaming so much crap though.  I miss the old videos and now he follows the format of taking forever to get to the point to maximize viewtime.
<jrwren> pfff
<jrwren> anyone, louis rossmann or anyone else who thinks they can repair a product that is sold as something unrepairable and disposable is a fool.
<jrwren> it is no different than buying a spoon and complaining htat it isn't a knife.
<jrwren> to hold contempt for someone for such a thing is foolish.
<Scary_Guy> Yet he somehow manages.  They just don't want to repair it because they want that money.
<jrwren> or, designing for repairability hurts both design look and profit and so it isn't done.
<jrwren> .
<Scary_Guy> They're Apple, they don't need to worry about profit so much.  As far as design goes I don't see why you can't have both
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K98JYRBGyrg I mean yes, backups would fix that but not everyone is great with that.
<mrgoodcat> making it so it could be taken apart would require design compromizes. clips and latches and stuff all take space, removeable parts need to be manufactured to a might tighter spec if you don't want them to feel loose. think about old phones that had removeable batteries, they never felt like a solid single item
<mrgoodcat> glueing and lamination allows them to make phones thinner and lighter, while also making the separate parts all feel like one solid item. they also ensure that heat dissapation is more consistent
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, it's a pain to find a phone with a removable battery these days too.  My current Nexus 6 doesn't and that's years old now.  Every phone I had besides that which did felt pretty solid to me though.
<Scary_Guy> Had a Galaxy Note 2 that I removed the back off of quite a few times and lost some clips but still held on like a champ.
<jrwren> smh
<Scary_Guy> I feel the same way :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-30
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<zarozombie> hola
<Scary_Guy> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-05-31
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> hahaha... want to see something scary?  run this: systemd-analyze security
<cmaloney> is that something new?
<jrwren> i've never seen it before.
<jrwren> new to me.
<jrwren> i don't know how long it has been tehre.
<Scary_Guy> Lol @ smiley faces
<Scary_Guy> My friend Mike sent me this back https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/systemd-service-hardening.html
<jrwren> yeah, i read something like that today which lead me to -analyzie
