#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-19
<\sh> minghua: it's synced
<minghua> crimsun: and if not, how can I check if it's sitting in NEW or not?
<crimsun> minghua: oh, that answers the question then. Nevermind. :)
<azeem> aha
<azeem>   m4_define([_AM_PYTHON_INTERPRETER_LIST] ,
<azeem>             [python python2 python2.3 python2.2 python2.1 python2.0 python1.6 python1.5] )
<azeem> that's it, my autoconf was outdated I guess
<\sh> minghua: there is something wrong with the package..
<azeem> or aclocal, rather
<crimsun> \sh: just a ftbfs, debdiff provided. I'm uploading.
<\sh> crimsun: it's all the time the same with those packages
<crimsun> yep
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<crimsun> minghua: just as an aside, the override doesn't need to be installed since the font path has changed
<minghua> crimsun: you are right, I missed that
<minghua> crimsun: I'll remember to patch that if I prepare another upload :-)
<crimsun> minghua: done
<minghua> crimsun: thank you
<dholbach> good night everybody
<tseng> bye dholbach
<minghua> dholbach: good night
<crimsun> night daniel
<azeem> lifeless: we need a Build-Depends on swig I think
<lifeless> azeem: makes sense
<lifeless> pbuilder is nearly bootstrapped
<azeem> lifeless: and I think if we have a generic python-opensync package, we also need to Build-Depends on python
<azeem> dh_python aborts otherwise
<lifeless> meep.
<azeem> you can pass it a specific version, but not sure what that means for the generic package
<lifeless> does not pythonx.y-dev pull in python ?
<azeem> nope
<lifeless> nuts
<lifeless> ok.
<lifeless> lets do 2.4
<azeem> ok
<azeem> lifeless: drat, we need python in any case
<azeem> my $python = 'python';
<azeem> my $python_version = `$python -V 2>&1`;
<lifeless> azeem: fair enough
<lifeless> head debian/control
<lifeless> Source: opensync
<lifeless> Section: libs
<lifeless> Priority: optional
<lifeless> Maintainer: Robert Collins <robertc@robertcollins.net>
<lifeless> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), libglib2.0-dev, libsqlite3-dev, libxml2-dev, check, python2.4, python2.4-dev, swig
<lifeless> Standards-Version: 3.6.2
<azeem> lifeless: sorry, I meant we really need the `python' package, not `python2.4'.  The latter is dragged in by python2.4-dev
<lifeless> azeem: python2.4 provide python
<azeem> ah
<lifeless> as a binary I mean
<lifeless> via alternatives
<ogra> hey loogaroo  :)
<azeem> lifeless: I wonder why it didn't build then
<loogaroo> hi all :)
<lifeless> right, that should be the dbg package fixed
<lifeless> silly me, copied the borked sample packages compat rule :[
<azeem> lifeless: I just tried again in my unstable chroot, and there's no /usr/bin/python there.  Maybe it's different in breezy/dapper?
<lifeless> is python2.4 installed ?
<lifeless> check update-alternatives
<azeem> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 9 Oct 22 14:03 /usr/bin/python -> python2.4*
<azeem> this is on breezy, it's not using alternatives
<lifeless> oh, ah. I see
<azeem> there's no python alternative in the unstable chroot either
<lifeless> if its not using alternatives
<lifeless> then its because of the (IMO) broken python version handling
<minghua> I don't think python uses alternatives for /usr/bin/python
<lifeless> when, oh WHEN will debian transition
<lifeless> so, guess we have to depend on python literally as you say
<azeem> nighthawk~/src/cvs/opensync-debian$ grep alternatives /var/lib/dpkg/info/python2.4.postinst
<minghua> on sid it's symlinked to /usr/bin/python2.3
<azeem> update-alternatives --remove python /usr/bin/python2.4 || true
<lifeless> I wonder if we can pass an appropriate option to configure to still get 2.4
<lifeless> (I don't wan to try and support 2.3 bindings
<lifeless> (its getting too old these days
<lifeless> yay
<azeem> hrm
<lifeless> we have stripped symbols
<lifeless> I do love debhelper.
<\sh> lifeless: error message? check makefile.am or something like this for occurances to python2.3
<azeem> I think we're fine if we just add the python pseudo package to Build-Depends and nuke python-opensync
<azeem> it's really dh_python sillyness that requires the formerI think
<lifeless> pushing
<lifeless> right, now for the stub python package
<lifeless> which is still being stubbon
<lifeless> the package dir is made, but is empty :[
<azeem> built fine now
<azeem> this also fixed the issue with exporting PYTHON
<lifeless> sweet
<lifeless> can you recommend a good sample package that does a stub python-module ?
<lifeless> this is shitting me :[
<minghua> I don't understand the efforts put on this BetterCJKSupport thing
* ajmitch returns
<azeem> lifeless: I try to stay clear from this python madness, although I maintain two or three python packages/modules myself
<azeem> but they are probably totally illegal
<lifeless> azeem: ;)
<lifeless> azeem: I already maintain stuff in python, its just the stub package bit that I've avoided successfully so far
<minghua> how did the spec work?  my understanding is that the developers think what they want to work on for this release, propose a spec, discuss with others, write a draft, get approved, then write the code.  is that correct?
* ajmitch hasn't done the module madness for python yet
<ajmitch> I've touched a few in universe, though
<ajmitch> minghua: more or less, yes
<ajmitch> but anyone can propose a spec
<ogra> minghua, between "write a draft" and "get approved" there are several stages of "request review" and "write a draft" involved
<ogra> ;)
<minghua> yeah, I can imagine things aren't easy :-)
<ajmitch> ogra: and 'remove crack'
<ajmitch> but it's oh so much fun
<ogra> and there seems some requirement for good japanese input methods in main i was at a fair in germany two weeks ago and had some long discussions with people that are annoyed about having to intall it from unierse
<azeem> lifeless: how annoying, the configure script detects python2.3 and won't look further
<azeem> so it ran fine, but it can't find tmp/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/_opensync.la later on
<\sh> azeem: what doesn configure.in/.ac tells you?
<ogra> why the heck has debian still 2.3 ?
<lifeless> because doko has not done the transition
<ogra> bah
<ajmitch> because doko is working on a new python scheme
<lifeless> theres presumably good reason for the lockstep immobile policy in debia
<lifeless> n
<ajmitch> so we won't have lots of pythonx.x-foo packages
<lifeless> but it doth not make sense to me at the moment, and I didn't get time to talk with doko about it
<lifeless> ajmitch: the best is the enemy of the good
<lifeless> ajmitch: we should transition before python 2.6 is released!
<ajmitch> lifeless: certainly - it's targetted for dapper though
<ogra> lifeless++
<ajmitch> at least it's on doko's roadmap :)
<minghua> ogra: the problem is always that a lot of people are asking for input methods, but few people are working on it :-(
<\sh> which will be more fun
<ogra> minghua, exactly ...
<ajmitch> minghua: not enough people know about the area
<ogra> minghua, icouldnt give any reliable answers myself ...
<ajmitch> lifeless: and transitions in debian have to be scheduled with the release managers in a way :)
<ogra> ajmitch, there are approximately 1/3 of asian humans running around on this planet, why cant we find some to work on it ?
<lifeless> oh eww
<lifeless> ajmitch: so we should reduce the number of 'transitions' needed.
<ajmitch> lifeless: well they get deferred so that there aren't huge numbers of breakages at once, eg C== & X
<ajmitch> c++
<minghua> ajmitch: actually many people know, but language is really a problem
<ajmitch> ogra: because we have problems getting anyone like that involved in development?
<minghua> and IMHO asian people are usually more shy :-)
<doko> lifeless: we'll do before the end of this year ;-P
<ogra> ajmitch, hmm ...
<ajmitch> doko: great! :)
<lifeless> doko: dude, you are awake. cool.
<ogra> time for a conf in asia then :)
<ajmitch> ogra: look at how many europeans are involved in ubuntu development :)
<lifeless> doko: I'm having trouble making a stub python-opensync to pull in python2.4-opensync
<lifeless> doko: HELP!
<minghua> before end of this year - sounds a great promise :-)
<ogra> wth the advantage that jdub and lifeless dont have to fly that far :)
* ajmitch is counting those of european descent - US, australia, NZ, etc :)
<tseng> nice to lump 3 continents together
<tseng> and your nice little island
<ogra> and call it european, lol
<ogra> europe is everything except china ?
<ogra> :)
<minghua> ogra: ha, that sounds exactly the mind set of ancient Chinese :-)
<tseng> china was somewhat colonized by europeans
<doko> lifeless: please send me an email, I think I had one of the mulled wines was bad ...
<lifeless> doko: ok, will do.
<lifeless> thanks
<ajmitch> tseng: all colonised by europeans :)
<lifeless> ogra: haven't you heard of eurasia ?
<lifeless> :)
<ogra> lol
* ogra votes for everybody who doesnt use chopsticks 
<ogra> hmm, but that would exclude sladen ...
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> ogra: but seriously, we don't have nearly enough people that can do input methods involved
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats true ...
<ogra> we certainly need more people from asia involved who actually can work on it
<ajmitch> we've got a few users who want it, at least
<minghua> ajmitch, ogra: in case you don't know, I am actually an "input method" guy
<ajmitch> minghua: I know
<ogra> minghua, i suspected that :)
<ajmitch> minghua: but we need more people, get recruiting! :)
<azeem> lifeless: build doesn't depend on the configure stamp
<azeem> so it won't autorconf by itself
<minghua> but I can't find any other people willing to work together with me to improve the input method packages in ubuntu
<azeem> eh, autoreconf
<lifeless> azeem: :)
<lifeless> azeem: are you hacking up configure.in ? I am too.
<ajmitch> lifeless: why are both make clean & make distclean called?
<minghua> ajmitch: actually not a bad idea, I should talk with the ubuntu-jp people to see what they have
<lifeless> ajmitch: my bad
<ajmitch> does upstream have broken makefiles?
<azeem> lifeless: no, I just saw that.  I had to run autoreconf manually when I first tried, and didn't realize it was meant to be called by the package
<minghua> but probably not in time for dapper
<ogra> lifeless, azeem, time for gobby ?
<ajmitch> minghua: I know that ubuntu-kr has really taken off since jsgotangco's talk
<minghua> I'm working on ubuntu at free time after all
<lifeless> ogra: if it worked maybe :)
<ajmitch> minghua: as are most of us :)
<ogra> :P
<minghua> ajmitch: :-)
<ogra> btw, \sh any gobby news from phillip ?
<\sh> ogra: bope
<\sh> nope even
<ajmitch> lifeless: fwiw, I still don't get revno 13 or later when I pull
<lifeless> ajmitch: do you have a squid ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: or a sucky ISP ?
<ogra> \sh, the first one soended like your nose is running ;) fits well :)
<minghua> ajmitch: yes, Atie from korea add some quite nice info on the wiki page, and I like his style of filing malone bugs
<ajmitch> squid & a sucky ISP
<\sh> ogra: hehe :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: can you check your access.log ?
<ogra> ajmitch, tell them to use willow, its the future ! squid is bloat
<azeem> hah, got it
<ajmitch> lifeless: sure, and I don't see anything there
<azeem> lifeless: if we add PYTHON=/usr/bin/python2.4 both to configure's line and before $(MAKE), it won't use 2.3
<azeem> the latter is maybe only needed cause I mucked with configure to remove the python2.3 check there, which didn't work
<lifeless> ajmitch: ok, so its bypassing squid :[
<lifeless> ajmitch: do you have http_proxy set ?
<ajmitch> no, I unset it
<lifeless> sweet, my patch works.
<ajmitch> heh
<azeem> lifeless: cool
<ajmitch> lifeless: I set http_proxy, and got a TCP_MISS in access.log
<lifeless> ok
<ajmitch> but still 0 revisions pulled :)
<lifeless> did that help or hinder ?
<lifeless> ok.
<lifeless> so its your freaking upstream
<ajmitch> yeah
<lifeless> theres a bug report on this
<ajmitch> not the first time I've had this
<azeem> lifeless: we also need to Build-Depend on automake, autoconf, if we keep the autoreconf
<lifeless> azeem: not just autotools-dev ?
<ajmitch> autotools-dev doesn't depend on the others, iirc
<azeem> lifeless: no, that just provides config.{guess,sub}
<lifeless> theres an autosomethingen
<lifeless> that brings in the current
<azeem> automaken
<ajmitch> automaken?
<azeem> I'd rather do automake1.9 and be done
<ajmitch> it'd help to keep it sane on the next auto* incompatibility
<azeem> I think automaken is even discouraged for Debian packaging, but not sure
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> I've pushed the confgigure change to the opensync-debian tree
<lifeless> and control updates for those deps
<Nafallo> *sigh*
<azeem> -build: debian/build-stamp
<azeem> +build: configure debian/build-stamp
<azeem> I think we need this as well
<azeem> in debian/rules
<ajmitch> configure-stamp would be good
<Nafallo> ajmitch: what to do with php4-interbase? it wants firebird2-dev, which is for good reason probably in p-a-s for amd64.
<ajmitch> Nafallo: hm?
<lifeless> pushed
<Nafallo> working on merges ;-).
<azeem> ajmitch: well, configure is a file which isn't there, so it might be alright
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I saw that
<ajmitch> azeem: that's true
<Nafallo> good reason is a HEAP of cast from...
<ajmitch> Nafallo: so you think that php4-interbase should not be tried on amd64?
<ajmitch> or what are you asking me?
* minghua just got a mail from the Debian maintainer of scim-hangul :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I dunno what the solution should be actually :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: are you working on an amd64?
<azeem> ok, built fine now
<Nafallo> yepp
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> Nafallo: 32-bit chroot then ;)
<Nafallo> Package: php4-interbase
<Nafallo> Architecture: any
<Nafallo> will still FTBFS because of missing build-dep...
<ajmitch> missing on amd64
<ajmitch> right?
<ajmitch> well firebird2-dev is only built on i386
<Nafallo> right
<Nafallo> so change that any to i386?
<Nafallo> or try to get firebird2 to build on amd64? ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: it should build
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=147500
<ajmitch> last comment there
<Nafallo> I'm sure it build, but it still has LOTS of cast-to-pointer errors
<\sh> good night :)
<Nafallo> but then again. looks like php4-interbase is also only built on i386, so p-a-s probably ;-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> ajmitch: you don't happen to have an i386 happy to build somewhere? ;-)
<lifeless> azeem: http://svn.opensync.org/multisync/tags/multisync-0.90.18 <- matching multisync
<azeem> lifeless: those are just command-line tools, right?
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I've got an i386 box, sure
<lifeless> azeem: not at all, thats the full multisync gui
<lifeless> azeem: as well as msynctool
<lifeless> which is a command line tool
<Nafallo> ajmitch: care to testbuild php4-interbase from debian unstable on it? :-)
<azeem> ah
<Nafallo> should be fine, but I never upload/request syncs without testing ;-)
<lifeless> azeem: so, think the engine is ready for an upload ?
<azeem> lifeless: well, we could wait for me packaging the other stuff to actually test it...
<azeem> but then, it builds, so ship it!
<lifeless> azeem: I've just built msynctool 0.90.18 against the installed opensync-dev package.
<lifeless> azeem: :)
<azeem> wiit
<azeem> eh, woot
* azeem is currently triaging multisync-0.8x bugs
<ajmitch> Nafallo: 1 sec
<ajmitch> dapper pbuilder base went strange again
<lifeless> I must go do real work now :[
<lifeless> I'll ship this up to NEW now though
<ajmitch> good old md5sum  mismatch from apt-proxy
<lifeless> where it can linger a year or so
<azeem> ok
<azeem> I'm going to bed now
<lifeless> night
<ajmitch> lifeless: great, thanks
<azeem> NEW is pretty fast these dasy
<azeem> days, even
<ajmitch> yeah, it's under 2 weeks for most packages now
<ajmitch> often under 1
<Nafallo> debians or ubuntus? :-)
<ajmitch> debian
<lifeless> Nafallo: ubuntus is hours
<Nafallo> lifeless: yea, that's what I thought :-)
<ajmitch> we can't afford to lose a week of an ubuntu release cycle :)
<Nafallo> hehe, very true :-)
<lifeless> man the python bindings are weak
<lifeless> they should write msynctool in python
<lifeless> then they would get good fast.
* Nafallo already looks forward to some bits of dapper+1 ;-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: give me a bit while I bash apt-proxy
<Nafallo> ajmitch: sure :-)
<lifeless> ajmitch: can we sync things that are in NEW ?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> not publically readable
<lifeless> ..
<ajmitch> the earliest it's syncable is from incoming
<minghua> what about from UploadQueue on ftp-master before it enters NEW? :-P
<lifeless> ajmitch: yeah, sync it ....
<lifeless> NOW
<lifeless> quick, before cron kicks in
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I wish we could, really
<ajmitch> but it's elmo's scripts
<ajmitch> you didn't set azeem or myself in Uploaders, did you?
<lifeless> not yet, I figure you can patch and publish a branch yourselves :)
<ajmitch> yeah, once my ISP doesn't suck as much
* minghua hate people keep mentioning 1.4 billion chinese people when talking about input method
<ajmitch> minghua: because most of those 1.4 billion don't have access to computers?
<minghua> I mean, hell, how many of them have even touched (let alone owned/co-owned) a computer?  50 million?
<minghua> ajmitch: exactly
<ajmitch> I think the point is not just how many have, but how many more might be able to
<ajmitch> more dreams of world domination, etc :)
<minghua> yeah, everyone envies the big market of China :-)
<ajmitch> there's even a lot of chinese people outside of china, who might want it :)
<ajmitch> like my flatmate for the last couple of years, using winxp :)
* ajmitch would have liked to have put ubuntu on his laptop :)
<minghua> ajmitch: actually from what I see, about half of the zh_CN l10n people are abroad
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> translation for example, require a decent knowledge of the english strings to translate
<ajmitch> I don't know how much english is taught in schools there :)
<minghua> ajmitch: that would be awesome :-)  maybe you can show him dapper (I guarantee we'll have a working scim in dapper)
<ajmitch> minghua: well he's left now
<ajmitch> gone back to china for summer & living elsewhere in dunedin next year
<minghua> ajmitch: quite a lot.  the problem, though, is the students forget them quickly once the exam is over :-)
<ajmitch> of course :)
<crimsun> I probably need to get more involved in that, heh.
<minghua> hey crimsun, do you speak chinese fluently?
<minghua> I suppose it's not your first language...
<crimsun> no, not by any stretch of anyone's imagination.
<ajmitch> minghua: you're in the US now, right?
<minghua> ajmitch: yes, Ph.D. student
<crimsun> I understand it completely if it's spoken _to_ me, but it takes me a while to respond
<minghua> crimsun: that's not bad :-)  what about written Chinese?
<crimsun> written's a bit better than spoken but not by much
* ajmitch understands none at all :)
<minghua> hey, maybe we should form a MOTUChinese team ;-)
<crimsun> hehe
<ajmitch> well half the MOTUs could form the #ubuntu-motu-de, I think ;)
<minghua> anyway, I believe ubuntu will have better support for chinese than debian in the near future
<Nafallo> I would be alone in MOTUSwedish ;-)
<Nafallo> minghua: that's good news :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: hopefully that support from ubuntu can get into debian
<minghua> ajmitch: I hope so too, but pushing things in Debian is hard
<minghua> ajmitch: I plan to apply for ubuntu member and MOTU soon, so that working in ubuntu is easy
<crimsun> great :)
<minghua> I'm still heavily involved in debian stuff, but NM progress is like forever
<minghua> that's actually the no. 1 reason ubuntu attracts me (as a developer, anyway), more open developing process
<Nafallo> ajmitch: ping php4-interbase? :-)
* minghua hasn't dare to apply for NM yet, because he doesn't have time to read through social contract, DFSG and debian policy... :-P
<Nafallo> why don't we have something like this: http://www.buildd.net/cgi/nowbuilding.cgi ?
<Nafallo> nm, launchpad will probably have something like that :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: still got pbuilder breakage, you'll have to ask someone else sorry :(
<ajmitch> Nafallo: yes, launchpad already has an interface like that, which we can't see ;)
* ajmitch saw the demo of it at UBZ
* minghua is heading home
<ajmitch> bye minghua
<minghua> see you soon guys
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hehe, oki :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hmm, I might aswell check the buildlogs sometime tomorrow ;-)
<Nafallo> what launchpad does seems very much like what debian calls multibuild :-P
<ajmitch> how so?
<Nafallo> I have dejavu when I read the draft. it doesn't differ to much from what's in the launchpad specs IMO.
<Nafallo> atleast some parts. now it feels more like things we want ;-)
<Nafallo> but one step at a time now :-)
<minghua> hello MOTUs, I am back
<bmonty> hey minghua
<ajmitch> hi
<minghua> hi bmonty.  what timezone are you in?
<bmonty> minghua: central
<minghua> bmonty: oh!  I've in central too.  I'm in Houston
<bmonty> I'm in Omaha
<bmonty> ajmitch: you having problems with riots in NZ also?
<StevenK> Sydney is too, which is terrible.
<ajmitch> bmonty: no riots here
<minghua> ha.  apparently lpbugs.py can't handle a bug not assigned to a package :-)
<bmonty> ajmitch: good to hear
<ajmitch> StevenK: sydney is terrible? yeah, I'd probably agree :)
<lifeless> bmonty: NZ is a lot saner than .au
<minghua> hi freeflying
<minghua> freeflying: did you get my mail about skim?
<freeflying> minghua: hi
<freeflying> minghua: y
<freeflying> minghua: now ,i'm waiting for skim's uploading to debian from mentor
<ajmitch> freeflying: you got a sponsor?
<minghua> freeflying: that's good to know, but it may not be in time for dapper though
<ajmitch> minghua: why not? :)
<ajmitch> debian isn't *that* slow
<minghua> we have UVF in the middle of Jan, right?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> 5 weeks away
<minghua> ajmitch: no, the debian maintainer is not freeflying
<ajmitch> right..
<minghua> and from my previous experience with William, his response time isn't that great...
<minghua> speaking for the speed of debian...  I just noticed that some packages got out of NEW
<ajmitch> they take a week or 2 in NEW
<StevenK> I had one that was sitting in NEW for 3 weeks.
<StevenK> And it was just a little Perl package.
<StevenK> What's UVF?
<bmonty> upstream version freeze
<Amaranth> upstream version freeze
<Amaranth> it means no more merge-o-matic
<bmonty> well at least I know I can type faster than Amaranth :)
<ajmitch> it means less shiny new crack
<Amaranth> bmonty: i'm on dialup :P
<bmonty> excuses....
<ajmitch> NB: we will allow new packages in universe, that don't require new libs, etc, up until feature freeze
<Amaranth> mine showed up way before yours here ;)
<ajmitch> which is 4 weeks later than UVF
<ajmitch> it means that we'll do a lot of reviewing & getting REVU cleared
<LaserJock> so what happened to Review Day?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: what do you mean?
<ajmitch> people tried to review stuff
<ajmitch> it's always an ongoing task
<LaserJock> It didn't seem like there was much activity that I could see. I wondered if it was canceled
<ajmitch> seems like everyone thinks it's a failure
<ajmitch> maybe we shouldn't bother
<LaserJock> Is there a way to see the stats
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no, I think it's good, just hard to see what's going on
<tseng> not really, revu keeps a log of comments
<minghua> yeah, I saw many useful comments as well
<tseng> if you have a better idea, you know what to do :)
<LaserJock> I was just thinking that maybe if there was something like what we have for the merge
<minghua> raphink is really a nice reviewer from what I see
* ajmitch is not a nice reviewer
<LaserJock> does anybody know how many got accepted over Review Day?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it will come in time
<ajmitch> since revu is being rewritten
<ajmitch> the current code is a bit of a mess
<ajmitch> and we're trying to keep away from '2.0 syndrome'
<LaserJock> I'm not complaining so much as trying to figure things out :-)
<lifeless> second system syndrome :)
<ajmitch> lifeless: essentially :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: thats the name of the syndrome - it alliterates
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I knew I'd heard it somewhere
* minghua reads an interesting thread on the forum
<ajmitch> LaserJock: maybe we could add your requests to the features list ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a place to add requests?
<minghua> someone is running dapper as daily desktop, and in order to dodge problematic upgrades, he runs dapper in a VM as well, just to test upgrades
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not really at the moment
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we've got a spec written up from UBZ
<LaserJock> minghua: hmm, doesn't seem like that would help with hardware problems
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec
<minghua> LaserJock: I agree
<ajmitch> sigh, more autopackage threads on the forums
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is REVU2 written in Python?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sure
<minghua> ajmitch: I just can't bare with some of the forum users
<ajmitch> minghua: I generally don't bother with them
<minghua> I just read a thread about scim, there are five or six people complaining an issue, which I've written in NEWS.Debian.gz, has a debian bug and a malone bug open, yet these guys knows nothing about it and don't bother to check
<minghua> and some of these said users claim in the forum "we need to have good, out-of-box scim support in dapper" while doing absolutely nothing AFAICS
<ajmitch> minghua: it does get depressing
<LaserJock> minghua: there is quite a bit of that in the scientific community as well.
<ajmitch> which is why I try & avoid the forums
<ajmitch> otherwise I'd never want to work on dapper ;)
<LaserJock> but then the forums users start saying "the devs don't care about us". It's a vicous cycle ;-)
<minghua> yeah, I try not get affected by those posts as well
<minghua> just felt like ranting.  now I feel much better :-)
<LaserJock> good
<ajmitch> rant away
<minghua> LaserJock: my position right now is "let them say whatever they want", it's a free distro after all
<minghua> it's not that canonical or ubuntu own anybody anything
<minghua> if they are so unsatisfied, they can start their own distro ;-)
<LaserJock> yeah, I just worry sometimes when these people's posts are read by hundreds of new users
<bmonty> amen!
<ajmitch> there's just such a lack of communication, they don't file bugreports, talk to developers, etc
<bmonty> ajmitch: I don't think you can fault users for not filing bug reports....malone isn't the most intuitive to use right now
<LaserJock> yeah, there is this expectation that everything should be done on the forums. I was there once, with Gentoo.
<minghua> I don't know.  some days ago I read on #debian-devel that he is happy that the users used to rant at #debian are ranting at #ubuntu now
<bmonty> forums are the technology of choice right now unfortunately
<ajmitch> LaserJock: difference in culture
<ajmitch> developers are used to IRC & mail
<bmonty> ajmitch: right, but that doesn't mean the users should be IMHO
<ajmitch> and the forums are 'official'
<ajmitch> so developers should be on there, right?
<bmonty> no, but they appear to be
<bmonty> I personally can't stand the forums...they are hard to search and slow to load
<ajmitch> they are official
<bmonty> ok, I thought I read that they weren't
<minghua> I would expect that there are at least some forum users with clue can point to/file bugs according to the forum discussions
<LaserJock> bmonty: I'm more used to forums so I find the email+IRC thing to be hard sometimes, although I am getting better at it
<minghua> I used to do that in Chinese debian forums, now I only act as the "clueful user" for the official chinese mailing list though
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't quite grasp what is 'hard' about them :)
<ajmitch> but that's because I've been used to them for several years, perhaps
<LaserJock> well, with the forums it is all in one source
<minghua> I started with BBS, so I like that, but I can't stand web forums :-(
<bmonty> I liked the post giving Matt Garrett a hard time about his request for info on Dell laptops....a good example of this issue
<ajmitch> bmonty: url?
<minghua> on the other hand, mailing list with mutt makes me feel at home :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: oh yes, mutt is nice ;)
<bmonty> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-December/013690.html
<minghua> yeah, one of my officemate recently started trying mutt as well
<ajmitch> bmonty: you said the post giving him a hard time?
* ajmitch saw the request
<LaserJock> I see how MLs and IRC is good for developers (I wouldn't be here if I didn't) but the forums are easier for me to find info a lot of times. Of course, that's when the forums are good quality
<minghua> actually I seem to be influencing the linux software choice of the whole group
<bmonty> oops
<ajmitch> the reply?
<minghua> everybody in our group uses vi and gnome :-)
<bmonty> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-December/013691.html
<ajmitch> yes, someone who wants to flame mjg59
<ajmitch> they don't know what they're dealing with :)
<bmonty> I think that guy gauranteed that all of the devs for ubuntu will ignore him in the future :)
<bmonty> anyway time for me to go to bed...goodnight everyone!
<ajmitch> http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~mjg59/irritated.txt
<ajmitch> mmm, flames
<ajmitch> ok, bbl
* minghua wonders why this override feature for binary packages is in debian in the first place
<minghua> it seems like designed for ubuntu :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: which override?
<LaserJock> maybe they were thinking ahead ;-)
<minghua> ajmitch: like in "dpkg-scanpackage repo override"
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> there are so many overrides around, that I can't tell which one you mean :)
<lifeless> minghua: because developers are muppets
<minghua> lifeless: huh?  are muppets "a group of puppets and costume characters" as explained in wikipedia?
<ajmitch> muppets, as in silly people
<LaserJock> hi Kyral and tritium
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<Kyral> hey...
<Kyral> *THUD*
<LaserJock> Kyral: how's school>
<Kyral> 2 finals and over 6 hours of PHP coding today
<Kyral> you tell me
<LaserJock> Kyral: it will be nice when it's over. At least until it starts again ;-)
<Kyral> if I come back
<LaserJock> ? why not
<tritium> aw, school is fun
<Kyral> I think I bombed my Calc2 exam
<LaserJock> hmm, I think I did too. Calc2 was one of my nastier classes as an undergrad
<tritium> don't worry about it, Kyral
<Kyral> Yah...seeing as this is my second chance already? lol
<LaserJock> well, I guess you could drop out and start a multibillion dollar software company
<LaserJock> but I don't know that I would reccomend that ;-)
<Kyral> ....
<LaserJock> Kyral: so what will you degree be in?
<Kyral> I'm IN CS ;P
<Kyral> A CS Major that hates math, go figure
<LaserJock> I wouldn't think a lot of CS would require that many math skills
<zakame> rainy afternoon :D
<zakame> er, pardon me asking, but what does a XXX-given-back.gz in the buildLogs mean?
<minghua> John Goerzen's story on planet.debian.org is amazing
<zakame> hello tritium ! :D
<tritium> hi zakame
<tritium> What's up?
<zakame> here responding to a DD's mail for gpsd :)
<zakame> He was curious as to how we manage our changelogs, and if we close Debian bugs in them ;)
<lifeless> ajmitch: do new packages in debian automatically flow down ?
<dholbach> good morning motus!
<crimsun> 'morning daniel
<tritium> Hi Daniel.
<zakame> afternoon dholbach! :D
<crimsun> 'morning michael, zak
<tritium> Hi crimsun.
<zakame> crimsun: are you still doing #4082 , I duplicated it with mein bug :(
<crimsun> Ubugtu: 4082
<dholbach> hey daniel, michael, zak - how are you guys?
<crimsun> dholbach: not bad, yourself?
<dholbach> cool, i'm just waking up :)
<crimsun> zakame: feel free to work on it :)
<tritium> Not bad.  You?  We're closing on our new house tomorrow.
<zakame> dholbach: I wrote back to a DD for gpsd earlier, he sent me the right patch for getting gpsd build on all archs
<dholbach> zakame: nice one :)
<dholbach> crimsun: "closing on" :)
<zakame> crimsun: cool! thanks :D
<zakame> whoa, I got hit by a blackout
<zakame> brb
<dholbach> tritium: "closing on"?
<tritium> dholbach: closing is when you officially sign all the papers, etc. to take legal ownership
<dholbach> oh WOW!
* dholbach congratulates tritium
* dholbach hugs tritium
<tritium> Thanks :)
<StevenK> tritium: Congrats. My wife and I did that a few months back.
<StevenK> tritium: Now you have the fun of moving house. :-/
<tritium> StevenK: thanks.  Yeah, and selling our current one ;)
<StevenK> Also fun.
<tritium> indeed
<StevenK> My wife and I moved from a rented house into own place, so it was doubly good.
<tritium> congrats!
<StevenK> Thanks. :-)
<tritium> :)
* StevenK powers up his new Alpha for the first time.
<StevenK> Damn it, drop to SRM!
<StevenK> I command thee!
<StevenK> /dev/sda4 has gone too long without being checked, check forced.
<StevenK> /dev/sda4: /lost+found not found.  CREATED.
<StevenK> Whee.
<lifeless> fwiw the problem I had a few days back with the -dbg package was purely one of debhelper compat level
<lifeless> StevenK: 'new' ?
<StevenK> lifeless: New old Alpha.
<kos_tom> hi
<kos_tom> just wanted to tell you that I've packaged the latest version of GCompris (7.2) for Breezy. It's available at http://thomas.enix.org/pub/debian/packages/breezy/
<siretart> hi
<siretart> kos_tom: thanks for your effords
<siretart> kos_tom: the thing is, we should rather work on getting the latest version of gcompris into dapper first, then we can try to backport that package into breezy
<kos_tom> siretart: ok.
<kos_tom> siretart: just FWIW, there's a patch inside my package for GCompris. Without it, the SQLite-related stuff doesn't work.
<siretart> kos_tom: are you a gcompris developer or just an interested user?
<kos_tom> i'm not a gcompris developer, but I work with the main gcompris developer, so I know him quite well
<siretart> ok
<kos_tom> in fact, I packaged it for breezy, because a school needed it.
<siretart> gcompris is a great and big package, and we definitly want it for edubuntu
<siretart> I'm sure ogra will really appreciate it
<siretart> I see that you used version number -2
<siretart> we have a policy in ubuntu that we use version number -0ubuntu1 for the first new upstream version
<siretart> so that a -1 version remains bigger, and we retain the possibility to sync from debian (or another source)
<kos_tom> hum, ok I see.
<siretart> the next thing, I see that you patch ./configure to fix that sqlite issue
<kos_tom> yep
<siretart> did you talk to upstream about this?
<kos_tom> yep, I did
<siretart> I'm not that 'happy' to patch autogenerated files
<kos_tom> i'm not neither
<siretart> because this are thing which tend to break the next upload
<kos_tom> but as ./configure is shipped inside the orig tarball, I don't see any other way.
<kos_tom> ./configure are usually shipped because they are tightly coupled with the autoconf version.
<siretart> well, upstream could (and even more should) fix this issue in a new release
<kos_tom> (I find it really really gory)
<kos_tom> upstream will fix it in the new release, sure. But to have a working 7.2, I had to patch.
<siretart> and the other possibility (what I'd suggest) would be to regenerate ./configure at build time
<siretart> this means build depending on automake/autoconf of course
<kos_tom> that's not the usual way of building the packages, AFAIK.
<kos_tom> yep, and build depending with the correct versions
<siretart> well,
<siretart> I see many packages which rerun autofoo at buildtime, and it generally works
<kos_tom> ok
<siretart> but I also see that many maintainers don't want to rely on this
<siretart> so they rerun autofoo and store that diff into a dpatch
<siretart> which bloats the diff.gz of course
<siretart> so you basically have to choose your poison
<StevenK> However, Build-Depending on autofoo and running them at build time cuts the size of the diff to about 1Kb.
<siretart> excatly
<kos_tom> sure
<siretart> hi StevenK! :)
* StevenK waves.
<kos_tom> StevenK: ultimately, the upstream developers shouldn't have to release the generated files.
<siretart> thats usually not that a big problem. It becomes a real one if the generated ./configure is broken
<siretart> as in this case
<siretart> then the distributor has to regenerate it with fixed input files. the question here is WHEN to rerun that
<siretart> since at ubuntu we do sourceful uploads only, I'd rather tend to regen them on the buildds.
<crimsun> automake1.x libtool
<siretart> kos_tom: would you mind uploading gcompris with the 2 issues I mentioned fixed to REVU?
<crimsun> patch configure.ac, then invoke autoreconf -f -i
<siretart> kos_tom: this is easier for us to review your package and eventually upload it to dapper (which is a prequisite to get it into breezy-backports)
<kos_tom> siretart: ok, will see. Not tonight, but tomorrow.
<siretart> kos_tom: you know how to do that?
<kos_tom> I just found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU, which appears to explain the stuff
<siretart> excatly
<siretart> just tell me your gnupg keyid, I'll add you in a sec
<StevenK> tmpfs                267552.0T 16536128.0T    113.6M 100% /
<StevenK> Muahahahahaha
<kos_tom> siretart: my complete fingerprint is 0BE1 4CF3 CEA4 AC9D CC6E 1624 F653 CB30 98D3 F7A7
<siretart> ok, done, you may upload now
* Mithrandir considers configure, etc to be similar to shipping binaries in the source tarball and likes to have them regenerated.
<kos_tom> ok, but I'm at my work, don't have my development stuff there.
<kos_tom> and tonight, I'm organizing something for the local LUG (Ubuntu demonstrations !), so won't have time to upload.
<kos_tom> lucas: hi
<Tonio_> hi all
<zakame> hi all, Tonio_ :D
<Tonio_> :)
<lucas> hi kos_tom :)
<siretart> huhu Tonio_
<Tonio_> yop siretart
<JohnnyMast> hey slomo
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> sistpoty should get in soon?
<siretart> muhahaha: http://www.ibiblio.org/propaganda/GDM20E20.html
<siretart> Nafallo: I should have his phone number around here somewhere, if you need to contact him
<Nafallo> siretart: mostly that linuxdcpp is fixed but malone refuses to add bugs against it via lpbugs.py :-/
<siretart> Nafallo: lpbugs.py just creates and signs an email
<siretart> Nafallo: did you check if the email arrives at launchpad?
<Nafallo> siretart: yes, and it works for everything except linuxdcpp ;-)
<Nafallo> I guess launchpad import stuff only when there is a binary :-P
<siretart> Nafallo: did you check if the source package is actually registered and known at launchpad?
<Nafallo> siretart: nope.
<Nafallo> how to search for source?
<siretart> lets see, how is the package called again?
<Nafallo> linuxdcpp
<siretart> Nafallo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linuxdccp
<siretart> thats the problem
<siretart> you need to ask someone in launchpad to add that sourcepackage to launchpad
<\sh> Nafallo: ping kiko he did it for us hte last time
<Nafallo> k, thanx
* siretart waves to \sh
<\sh> ok...going back to bed..cu later in the evening...somehow I have east coast times now
<siretart> \sh: how are you? feeling better?
<\sh> siretart: I wish I do
<siretart> \sh: sleep well, gute besserung!
<zakame> evening all :D
<\sh> siretart: I just went out to buy some bottles of coke...wasn't good to do it
<siretart> hey zakame
<\sh> bbl
<zakame> gn8 \sh :D
<zakame> hi siretart ! :)
<Tonio_> re
<Tonio_> I'm just packaging metamonitor
<Tonio_> few bugs in the sources bug I've been able to patch and it works
<Tonio_> anyway, I'm not hapy with the patch I've done, cause I'm sure there is a propper way to do it...
<Tonio_> is patching a Makefile.in a good way to do, or is there a clean way to regenerate another one valid (using automake or something) ?
<siretart> Tonio_: is that a handcrafted Makefile.in (package using autoconf only) or is it created (e.g. by automake)?
<Tonio_> the package is using autoconf to generate Makefiles
<Tonio_> but all Makefiles.in have been gnrated with a very old version of automake
<Tonio_> automake 1.6.3
<Tonio_> siretart: I'm sure using a more recent version would give a cleaner Makefile.in
<siretart> hm. it really depends on the package.
<zakame> Tonio_: hm, I was faced with the same prob before (with gpsd), where a missing $(LIBM) in the Makefile.in made build-fails in non-i386 :(
<siretart> Tonio_: then this might be the best approach to fix the package
<Tonio_> in fact the hack I've done works, but the method isn't clean to me.....
<Tonio_> siretart: so what to do ?
<Tonio_> patching like I've done and tell upstream to use a more recent version ?
<Tonio_> or make usage of automake via the rules file ?
<Tonio_> zakame: and how did you proceed ?
<siretart> Tonio_: I'd do both
<zakame> Tonio_: what exactly is the change made to your Makefile.in?
<Tonio_> zakame: here is an example
<Tonio_> in the way it uses MOC :
<Tonio_> configurebase.h: $(srcdir)/configurebase.ui
<Tonio_> 	$(UIC) -o configurebase.h $(srcdir)/configurebase.ui
<Tonio_> configurebase.moc: configurebase.h
<Tonio_> 	$(MOC) configurebase.h -o configurebase.moc
<Tonio_> that doesn't work, while it is supposed to...
<Tonio_> but the result is configurebase.h file missing
<Tonio_> so I changed "$(MOC) configurebase.h -o configurebase.moc" to "$(MOC) $(srcdir)/configurebase.h -o configurebase.moc"
<Tonio_> as you can see, that's not a very clean way to proceed, but that works :)
<zakame> hm, indeed... :(
<Tonio_> best way would be to regenerate all makefiles.in within rules, but that sound like a kind of mess to perform :)
<zakame> in my case with gpsd, all I really needed to do was to force LDFLAGS="$(LDFLAGS) -lm" in debian/rules ;)
<Tonio_> yes, but my problem isn't a path problem
<zakame> short of a 156K dpatch :(
<Tonio_> the fact is that I don't understand why the original code doesn't work...
<zakame> when it should, gaah :(
<Tonio_> and the strange thing is that it seems to read the makefile from the end to the begining
<Tonio_> is that normal ?
<Tonio_>  I mean, several .h files are performed, but errors are ordered from the last .h file to the first....
<Tonio_> dunno if that's normal.....
<zakame> dholbach: whoa, open MOTU! you rock! :D
<jsgotangco> open Motu?
<dholbach> zakame: i'm glad you like it
<zakame> jsgotangco: jedi-padawan relations ;)
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<zakame> dholbach: yeah, as I'm having such a session right now at #u-ph :D
<jsgotangco> zakame, you know very well i'm very much on the dark side
<jsgotangco> *heavy breathing*
* dholbach gives jsgotangco a cough drop
<zakame> jsgotangco: so, that's sith->?what? relationship :D
<jsgotangco> a sith lord -> sith apprentice relationship
<zakame> oh right :))
* jsgotangco starts using dark side force on dholbach 
<dholbach> you want me to hack on the kernel or what?
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<zakame> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> I've just seen dholbach's message on the ubuntu-motu list
<Gloubiboulga> I think it's a really good idea :)
<dholbach> could you all please follow up on the list on this?
<dholbach> like that we can plan it better
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, yes
<zakame> sure dholbach :D
<zakame> crimsun: hm, seems mftrace was already uploaded and built, despite PendingUpload, could I close the bug(s) then? :)
<zakame> hi slomo :D
<slomo> hi zakame :)
<jdong__> I'm investigating a build failure under Hoary with mplayer...
<jdong__> I think we're missing a build-dep
<jdong__> (not that I expect it to work with a build dep ;) )
<jdong__> stepping thru the build again to check
<slomo> jdong_: with the hoary package or the dapper one?
<jdong__> sorry, too early in the morning :D
<jdong__> I meant Dapper -> Breezy
<jdong__> I believe it wasa a link error with an unknown lib
<jdong__> around 20 min into the build on an A64
<slomo> jdong_: that would be at the first linking... hmm, upload me the buildlog somewhere, maybe i can give you a hint ;)
<jdong__> slomo: I'm rebuilding it to get the error again at the moment :)
<jdong__> and where am I logged in twice???
<jdong__> grr
<jdong__> brb
<jdong_> stupid screen :)
<jdong_> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmp4v2
<jdong_> libmp4v2-dev, I guess?
* jdong_ trying
<slomo> yes
<slomo> libfaac-dev missed a depend on libmp4v2-dev in breezy
<jdong_> would it be an acceptable idea to add a libmp4v2-dev dep from mplayer?
<Mithrandir> do you mean build-depend?
<zakame> ain't that in multiverse?
<jdong_> add libmp4v2-dev as a build-dep on mplayer in Dapper
<ogra> zakame, as well as mplayer is ...
<slomo> jdong_: yes, i can do it with the next mplayer upload... but this will be earliest at the weekend. currently there's a small issue with ffmpeg in mplayer that i need to fix
<jdong_> slomo: ok, that's fine
<zakame> ogra: oh, right, moving on... :)
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> slomo - I tried to backport mplayer this weekend (with the fixed dep), and it FTBFS on amd64, would that be the ffmpeg issue you mention ?
<Kyral> Morning
<zakame> heya Kyral
<siretart> small issue with ffmpeg?!
<siretart> I'd rather say it is a mess! :)
<Yagisan> siretart: It's not possible to standardise on a ffmpeg and ffmpeg-dev package is it ?
<siretart> Yagisan: no
<siretart> Yagisan: ffmpeg upstream is way to unstable, and changes both API and ABI too frequently :(
<Yagisan> siretart: Words can't express how much that annoys me as a user
<siretart> Yagisan: jo
<jdong_> p7zip, -O2 CFLAGS bring slightly better performance (5% increase)...
<jdong_> any reason we don't use it?
<Yagisan> siretart: ?
<siretart> Yagisan: I agree with you
<siretart> jdong_: sounds reasonable. I'd suggest filing a malone bug about this. perhaps you can attach a patch, too
<jdong_> ok
<Yagisan> siretart: ok, google couldn't translate jo. It's frustrating when you are encoding/decoding and different apps don't work together, because ffmpeg changed :(
<ogra> jdong_, the simple fact that e have to rebuild the world, that it requires a lot of testing and that we divert even more from debian with it i guess
<jdong_> siretart: nvm, google revealed SFX issues on some archs with -O2
<jdong_> idn if the archs are relevant to us though
<Amaranth> SFX?
<Amaranth> we have lots of arches
<jdong_> self extracting 7zips
<jdong_> Amaranth: Cygwin?
<ogra> in any case it would be far to intrusive for dapper ...
<Amaranth> oh, only windows does those, i thought
<jdong_> Amaranth: yeah, cygwin is a POSIX-like supported arch with p7zip
<jdong_> there's been a LOT of 7z hype over @ the forums recently
<Amaranth> yeah
<ogra> jdong_, thst something to look at for dapper+1 at earliest date ...
<slomo> Yagisan: no... do you have a buildlog? the issue with ffmpeg in mplayer is a decoding problem with h264 (completly distorted picture)
<Amaranth> if the language packs are compressed with LZMA compression we can fit more on the CD
<jdong_> ogra: I understand :)
<ogra> we simply couldnt bear any undiscovered bugs in the packaging system for a 5year support release
<Yagisan> slomo: no, but I can chuck it into the breezy pbuilder again for you
<jdong_> ogra: just that a lot of people want to use 7z more for their personal purposes
<Yagisan> slomo: I can't do dapper, as I'm waiting for a mirror sync
<slomo> Yagisan: maybe the libmp4v2 problem? but please do it :)
<Yagisan> slomo: I'll dcc it to you when done
<ogra> jdong_, thats fine, if its free, make a package ... a good MOTU task ;)
<Yagisan> jdong_: isn't 7z mainly used for warez ?
<ogra> it could even see some more widespread testing if there would be a package in universe
<jdong_> Yagisan: umm, it's a very powerful compression format
<jdong_> ogra: it's already in universe; p7zip
<jdong_> ogra: dfsg approved Freeness :)
<ogra> oh, didnt know that
<jdong_> ogra: main downside is RAM usage and slowness
<jdong_> ogra: to achieve its 20% improvement over bzip2 on larger archives, it at times takes 100MB+ to compress/decompress
<Amaranth> 7z is just a wrapper format
<jdong_> LZMA compression
<Amaranth> the thing everyone is excited about is LZMA compression
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i thought that had patent issues
<Hieronymus> Amaranth: haven't they expired?
<Amaranth> everyone says 7z when they mean LZMA because it's the most popular implementation
<Yagisan> jdong_: I don't doubt it powerful, but I thought I knew where I saw .7z packages before.
<Yagisan> slomo: when did mplayer 2:0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20051205-0ubuntu7 get uploaded ?
<slomo> Yagisan: some time ago ;) maybe 2 weeks ago
<jdong_> the patents expired; p7zip is pure GPL right now
<jdong_> the lzma SDK is LGPL or more free
<jdong_> (I believe the p7zip author has supernatural licensing rights to the SDK?)
<Yagisan> slomo: hmm, wasn't there on sunday/monday when my build failed. I'll download and see if I can reproduce the error
<jdong_> is \sh around?
<jdong_> I plan on bringing back my beta testing repository (breezy-backports-staging) for Backports beta testers...
<jdong_> with the usual "100% beta breaks your system" warnings and such
<jdong_> there are several Backports enthusiasts that have expressed interest in helping me beta test
<jdong_> just would like to know if anyone'd object to that
<jdong_> packages will be built in clean chroots, according to Backports policies and all
<jdong_> no source changes, etc
<Yagisan> jdong_: you don't use pbuilder for backports ?
<slomo> Yagisan: thanks
<Yagisan> slomo: your welcome
<jdong_> Yagisan: for Backports purposes, I still find it faster (for me) to use a chroot instead
<jdong_> Yagisan: I keep my chroots very clean, with vmwares for testing
<slomo> jdong_: why? apt-get source foo && pbuilder build foo.dsc ;)
<Yagisan> jdong_: I scripted up my pbuilder scripts, that's how I caught the mplayer build-dep missing error
<jdong_> jdong_: ubp-build.py has experimental version sed support now :)
<jdong_> I use pbuilder at times
* Yagisan loves his RAID5 disk subsystem :)
<slomo> Yagisan: no idea about this failure... it's not logical imho ;) we link to libmpcdec but it doesn't find the symbols in libmpdec...
<Yagisan> slomo: excellent, I'll try in a dapper pbuilder, when I stop getting md5sum errors from the mirrors
<Yagisan> slomo: See if I get the same illogical error :)
* jdong_ goes back to studying for test
<jdong_> yay for dead cats
<\sh> beta testing backports repository>
<\sh> ?
<\sh> guys i'm sleeping and it pinged here
<jdong_> \sh: sorry to disturb you... I'm bringing back breezy-backports-staging on mirrormax for Backports beta testers
<jdong_> they know well not to disturb devs about problems resulting from using it
<jdong_> wondering if you're ok with it
<\sh> jdong_: how are you managing this with user and passwort authentication
<jdong_> \sh: I've not planned to use authentication...
<jdong_> \sh: I don't think average users would be stumbling on staging left and right :)
<\sh> so how are you managing it, that those people are not spamming the whole world with "damn, I broke my ubuntu with backports again"?
<jdong_> tell them not to?
<\sh> jdong_: it failed the first time..do you think you will succeed the second time?
<jdong_> \sh: the first time, we had a "stable" Backports repo on there for general use
<jdong_> that isn't happening this time
<jdong_> this time, it's a BETA TESTING repo ONLY, and it's clearly going to be labeled as such
<jdong_> In addition, I will not be signing the repository, adding another CLEAR WARNING before any of these packages are installed
<Yagisan> jdong_: Uh, you do know on the forums, there was a guide about how to disable the non-signed message
<jdong_> Yagisan: yes, and it was critized enough for it
<\sh> jdong_: well..I'm not ok with it...but do whatever you like...if the support requests are increasing because of this beta staging backports area...well I think we will have the same discussion again as last time..which I don't want...and others either
<jdong_> \sh: I don't think that'll happen this time
<\sh> jdong_: you don't know the users :)
<jdong_> but if any support requests like that ever pop up, contact me
<Yagisan> jdong_: Just wanted to point out that techincal solutions don't always work on social problems
<jdong_> Yagisan: yeah, I experienced that before with moving repository URL's
<\sh> anyways going back to sleep...
<\sh> laters
<siretart> \sh: sleep well
<jdong_> see ya
<Yagisan> jdong_: Honestly, I think a a backports beta is better as a "closed" beta, without the general users accessing it
<siretart> jdong_: I'm not sure if it is worth the efford
<siretart> jdong_: I think how to create a breezy pbuilder is quite well documented on the wiki. and the sources are available in our archive
<Yagisan> jdong_: personally, I backport what I need with pbuilder
<siretart> jdong_: what I've been thinking todo was to write a small wrapper script, which fetches the source package from dapper and builds it with the local breezy pbuilder, so that building the packages would be a oneliner, even for backporting beta testers
<jdong_> siretart: there were about 2-3 packages that staging testers caught problems with
<jdong_> one caught bug is worth the effort for me
<jdong_> and more testers = better coverage
<jdong_> and if I have 10 beta testers, having them all do pbuilder packages themselves doesn't make much sense to me
<siretart> jdong_: err, what kind of problems?
<jdong_> siretart: regressions in program functionality
<jdong_> siretart: sometimes obscure interactions with other Universe packages
<siretart> jdong_: err, and how do you circumvent them?
<jdong_> siretart: I'd know about them and not let the packages into the stable repository?
<jdong_> rather than figuring it out the hard and painful way where ordinary users would get affected
<Yagisan> jdong_: that's the nature of backporting from an unstable and changing development repository
<jdong_> Yagisan: but that's no excuse not to try to avoid it
<Yagisan> jdong_: no, that is why the backporter needs to test what they backport
<siretart> jdong_: I was thinking about a wrapper skript 'ub-backport-build <sourcepackage>', which would fetch the source from dapper and builds it in the local pbuilder
<siretart> jdong_: if you are interested, we could put that script into dapper and backport it officially
<jdong_> siretart: that'd be very cool
<siretart> jdong_: that way it would be most easy for backport testers to fetch and build the packages themselves
<jdong_> Yagisan: these are packages that I test but missed the bugs
<jdong_> Yagisan: I spend A LOT OF TIME testing
<Yagisan> siretart: I have some scripts that may be able to be modifed for that purpose
<siretart> Yagisan: that would be cool. are they publically available?
<Yagisan> siretart: not yet, but I can send them to you
<siretart> Yagisan: just send it to ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com (and perhaps CC: ubuntu-motu@)
<siretart> so that jdong can see that it as well ;)
<jdong_> thanks guys, that'll be sweet :)
<Yagisan> siretart: I'm not on that list, it won't get through
<Yagisan> I'll need to subscribe today
<jdong_> I appreciate your help
<Yagisan> I'll post it when I get up, but it works for backports, and non-backports
<Yagisan> depends on a working pbuilder though
<jdong_> Yagisan: that's the thing... you need to automate that, too
<siretart> Yagisan: perhaps we could provide a working pbuilder example config
<jdong_> it needs to ship being able to backport out-of-the-APT
* Yagisan thinks, he may as well make it into a deb and send it to revu
<siretart> it really isn't that hard to create a pbuilder
<siretart> jdong_: no, it just needs a custom apt config, not depending on the system apt
<jdong_> siretart: but it's a deterrent to beta testers
<siretart> jdong_: I've done this for several small projects, its no problem
<Yagisan> OK, after work today, I'll fix up the script, turn it into a package, and sent it to both lists, and revu, and stick it in my repo
<jdong_> thanks
<Yagisan> jdong_: no worries, it would be nice to have a package that isn't rejected because of licensing :)
<lucas> I just uploaded a new version of motutools to REVU. if somebody has some time to review it : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1160
<Yagisan> Goodnight all (3am here)
<siretart> lucas: advocated
<siretart> gn8 Yagisan
<zakame> gn8 Yagisan :D
<Yagisan> btw slomo, mplayer built fine in the dapper pbuilder on amd64
<Yagisan> night
<lucas> siretart: thanks :-)
<zakame> wow we're just 102 packages unassigned for merge :)
<jsgotangco> time for the UTOM team to change that
<jsgotangco> :D
<JohnnyMast> guys i found a theme song for MOTU
<JohnnyMast> http://www.rosiello.net/downloads/13 - Princes of the Universe.ogg
<JohnnyMast> it rocks !
<zakame> JohnnyMast: I've that playing NOW :D
<JohnnyMast> its would fit
<JohnnyMast> fit ubuntu MOTU like a successfull package on pbuilder
<jsgotangco> good night
<lucas> zakame: 102 packages unassigned for merge doesn't mean we are lagging behind debian for only 102 packages
<lucas> a lot of merges are waiting for reviews & uploads
<zakame> lucas: yeah; still, that's 102 packages unassigned ;)
<JohnnyMast> only 102
<JohnnyMast> i have seen a lot more
<JohnnyMast> guys i have a strange pbuilder error
<zakame> we have 165 accepted, and 488 done
<lucas> http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/versionslist.html <= comparison of debian sid vs ubuntu dapper pkg versions
<zakame> lucas: so we're more or less half-done for merging :) I'm looking forward for what's next after that ;)
<zakame> rocking!
<zakame> good night all :D
<JohnnyMast> guys
<JohnnyMast> could you all look into this ?
<JohnnyMast> http://pastebin.com/463819
<zakame> sure
<JohnnyMast>  have python-glade2 in my deps
<zakame> have you checked your ./configure call?
<JohnnyMast> with python ?
<JohnnyMast> there is none
<zakame> in debian/rules?
<zakame> can you paste that as well?
<JohnnyMast> my rule file ? sure but i blame control
<JohnnyMast> or pbuilder
<JohnnyMast> since it also cant read my dapper cd
<zakame> wah
<JohnnyMast> http://pastebin.com/463827
<JohnnyMast> thats the rule file
<JohnnyMast> *rules
<zakame> gah, cdbs ...
<JohnnyMast> yep
<zakame> i see why you blame the control file then ;)
<JohnnyMast> you want to see it ?
<zakame> go :D
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> http://pastebin.com/463830
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: You don't have permission to access /downloads/13 - Princes of the Universe.ogg on this server.
<zakame> huh? why the B-D _and_ B-D-I on the same python-glade2 pkg?
<zakame> lucas: I'm looking at your ruby merges ;)
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus let me check
<zakame> JohnnyMast: also, 'tis seems you didn't explicitly set which python version to use
<JohnnyMast> lol i C
<zakame> it should prolly be python2.4-dev
<JohnnyMast> well it doesnt depend on a version
<JohnnyMast> i checked already
<zakame> hm but the binary will be, even if its arch: all
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus fixed
<JohnnyMast> it only depends on >=2.2
<zakame> anyhow I'll look at this tomorrow, 'tis 12:19 am here in .ph and rainy even :(
<JohnnyMast> well thats all debian/debian a like os`es there days
<zakame> good night :D
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus you you like it
<JohnnyMast> ??
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: no
<JohnnyMast> i do :) its ideal for motu
<siretart> slomo: I think I have managed to build a transcode-1.0.2 with the ffmpeg we currently have in dapper. It seems to build on amd64, will try it on x86, too
<siretart> and yes, it is linked statically to our lovely ffmpeg
<slomo> siretart: and again 1 GB big? ;)
<siretart> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 15097674 Dez 14 17:31 result/transcode_1.0.2-0.0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<siretart> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root   291360 Dez 14 17:31 result/transcode-doc_1.0.2-0.0ubuntu1_all.deb
<siretart> slomo: 15mb.
<slomo> and 40 mb uncompressed... same as before
<slomo> ok...
<siretart> slomo: better than not having transcode at all
<JohnnyMast> could you start a build on revu for me ? i think my own pbuilder is broken and i need somethng to check
<slomo> siretart: yes
<JohnnyMast> that was asked to siretart
<siretart> slomo: to change this, we would have to make ffmpeg provide dynamic libs. perhaps we could make ffmpeg provide a dynamic 'libavcodec-ubuntu.so', and hope that we won't change ffmpeg in dapper again
<siretart> JohnnyMast: which package?
<JohnnyMast> hold on im uploading it now then ile pass you the revu link
<siretart> ok
<JohnnyMast> its a strange thing 1) pbuilder cant read my dapper cd 2) it wasnt a build one heck of a lot of packages
<JohnnyMast> siretart here it  is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1161
<slomo> siretart: or ship libavcodec-transcode.so with transcode
<siretart> slomo: this would mean code duplication
<siretart> slomo: I don't want to ship the source to ffmpeg in transcodes diff.gz
<slomo> ok
<siretart> slomo: lets rather declare the one ffmpeg we currently have as the semi-official and link dynamically to that
<siretart> slomo: but if we do that, we should wait until after UVF, so that we avoid unecessary rebuilds
<JohnnyMast> siretart did you start the build ?
<JohnnyMast> thanks
<JohnnyMast> siretart on my pbuilder it says python-glade2 is missing
<siretart> JohnnyMast: done
<siretart> JohnnyMast: seems to ftbfs, but because of different reason
<JohnnyMast> whats ftbfs ?
<Amaranth> fail to build from source
<JohnnyMast> i dont see it failing
<siretart> JohnnyMast: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512141135/ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu1.buildlog
<JohnnyMast> yes thats what i get
<siretart> for some reason, your package does not seem to detect the system python-glade2 package
<JohnnyMast> and the missing package is in the controle file
<JohnnyMast> as depend
<JohnnyMast> siretart do you have any idea`s about it ?
<siretart> JohnnyMast: no, sorry
<JohnnyMast> siretart this was exactly why i tought that my builder was broken because the package is in the deps and also installed
<Gloubiboulga> sudo apt-get install flex
<Gloubiboulga> sorry
<Gloubiboulga> :/
<siretart> JohnnyMast: no, your pbuilder seems to be fine
<JohnnyMast> yeah
<JohnnyMast> maybe its my debian/ dir somewhere
<siretart> slomo: ok, it built on amd64 and on x86
<siretart> slomo: I think I'll upload it to the archive, ok?
<slomo> fine with me :)
<siretart> uploading now
<siretart> ok im off for today
<siretart> cu folks!
<seth_k> Can I get another advocater for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1070 kmobiletools? Riddell has reviewed and advocated :)
<Riddell> seth_k: "another reviewer" best not to presume too much :)
<seth_k> haha well said ;)
<cyberix> slomo: What is/was the problem with gnunet-gtk?
<cyberix> slomo: It still doesn't work in sid?
<dholbach> can somebody proof-read/enhance/fix/add-bling-factor to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Draft?
<dholbach> we really need it to fix up universe bugs
<dholbach> and the desktop team and the kubuntu team as well :)
<slomo> cyberix: no idea, i didn't have any luck to talk with elmo about it... but don't worry, i don't forget it :)
<dholbach> anyone?
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> Riddell just added a kubuntu paragraph, does anybody care enough to write a motu/universe one?
<dholbach> or shall we leave it out?
<LaserJock> dholbach: looks, cool
<LaserJock> although I will be on the road on the 21st
<dholbach> a lot of people will, i guess
<dholbach> but we should have those bug days regularly
<dholbach> that's, why i decided to drive it anyways
<LaserJock> btw, I just read your Open MOTU Day email, do you have an idea of when that would be?
<dholbach> i think we should start planning it... adding ideas around it, so we can really make it big
<dholbach> that's why i didn't ask for a date yet :)
<dholbach> surely next year
<LaserJock> I think it is a great idea, anything I can do?
<dholbach> suggest random cool stuff on the mailing list
<dholbach> :)
<LaserJock> maybe I can get a rough draft of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide done by then
<dholbach> sounds cool
<dholbach> that'd be something we could refer people to
<JohnnyMast> dholbach im writing a reply mail to urs
<dholbach> urs?
<JohnnyMast> you on the mailing list
<dholbach> ah cool
<JohnnyMast> it has been send
<dholbach> but just to me ;)
<JohnnyMast> :|
<JohnnyMast> let me forward it to the mailing
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: have you worked on w.u.c/Merging lately?
<JohnnyMast> no only revu and bug fixes
<JohnnyMast> the others where fixed for me
<JohnnyMast> but are still asigned
<LaserJock> k, I guess I should finish that up
<JohnnyMast> so LaserJock whats the story ? are you motu already ?
<LaserJock> no
<JohnnyMast> getting there ?
<LaserJock> only a wannabe ;-)
<LaserJock> not sure
<JohnnyMast> but ur wise and old
<LaserJock> I just became an Ubuntu member at the last CC Meeting
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: well, thanks but I don't know if I have the technological knowledge to be a MOTU yet
<LaserJock> there is still a lot for me to learn
<LaserJock> I just try to help where I can
<JohnnyMast> well LaserJock keep it up !
<LaserJock> I'll try, thanks for the encouragement
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> btw did you do anything on the mergin text ?
<LaserJock> not since the 7th
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> dholbach, what did you think of my idea ?
<LaserJock> I better finish up my xcdroast tutorial, it is kinda bad to leave it hanging there
<JohnnyMast> yes well i liked it with the attachments
<JohnnyMast> *ike
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: in general it's a good idea to have people willing to take care of motu wannabes, it's just a question of how to organize that
<JohnnyMast> *like
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: i think the motu open day, the motu school and the mailing list are a good start
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: what do you think?
<JohnnyMast> but you could put the (example MOTOpersonal ppl life in ubuntu-school
<JohnnyMast> so then ppl have a root to join from
<JohnnyMast> that fixes the organisation
<JohnnyMast> the teachers are in school :)
<JohnnyMast> so that the school room doesnt have only idlers
<JohnnyMast> it will be more active with once in a while an extra lecture
<dholbach> you could work on the idea a bit and present in tomorrow's motu meeting
<JohnnyMast> is that here ?
<dholbach> #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> should be on fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<JohnnyMast> what time ?
<JohnnyMast> its some where in my email inbox
<JohnnyMast> ile work out an document
<JohnnyMast> or better ile create a presentation in dia
<eruin> \s I think you need new blogging software ;p
<JohnnyMast> im working on edge
<JohnnyMast> to wrap it in deb
<JohnnyMast> well not yet im waiting for an upstream stable
<JohnnyMast> dholbach feeel like doing a revieuw ?
<dholbach> tell me the url and i'll look at it later
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> hold on to something
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1162
<dholbach> cool, have it in the browser
<dholbach> will poke at it later
<JohnnyMast> thanks
<JohnnyMast> whats the motu school channel name again ?
<dholbach> anybody wants to add something to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Draft, something universe-wise?
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: #ubuntu-motu-school ?
<JohnnyMast> thumbs up @ LaserJock thanks thats what ineeded
<LaserJock> dholbach: maybe we should say something about how many universe bugs there are
<ajmitch> morning all
<dholbach> yeah, something about the motu team, having fun on the bug day as well
<dholbach> something about our bug page on the wiki, whatever :)
<ajmitch> what's new?
<dholbach> UbuntuBugDay/Draft!
<dholbach> owohoo
* ajmitch will be gone then :)
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: You might want to indent the license info in debian/copyright with two spaces, so that it's clear where it begins and ends
<JohnnyMast> what line do you mean ?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: in debian/copyright
<Hieronymus> I mean the license
<Hieronymus> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/12/msg00007.html
<JohnnyMast> oh on line 2
<JohnnyMast> \..\
<JohnnyMast> |..|
<Hieronymus> ?
<Hieronymus> no
<Treenaks> the | things indicate 'quoted text'
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: have a look around in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright for examples
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: then read this.
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: then be enlightened
<dholbach> /usr/share/debhelper/dh_make/licenses/gpl
<dholbach> is a nice template
<Treenaks> dholbach: that too :)
<dholbach> guys, just use dh_make :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: dholbach_make
<dholbach> dh_make -b -c gpl
<dholbach> cd bla*; rm *.ex *.EX dirs docs README.Debian
<dholbach> and you can start working :)
<slomo> or better create your own template for "standard" packages which just needs to be copied around ;)
* Treenaks pets dh-make-perl
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: and replace "Read /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL"
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> yes i noticed how they use that linein the template
<Hieronymus> make it something on Debian systems
<JohnnyMast> ??
<Hieronymus> On Debian systems, ....
<ajmitch> dholbach: when do you think you'll have this 'open day'?
<dholbach> next year
<ajmitch> ok
<dholbach> we need to plan it, have cool ideas for it
<dholbach> make it big
<slomo> ajmitch: make in debian seems to be repaired :)
<dholbach> invite everybody to the party :)
<ajmitch> slomo: yes, I saw manoj had fixed it
<ajmitch> dholbach: make sure it doesn't clash with anything else ;)
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: Can you please use Homepage in the description in debian/control instead of HOMEPAGE?
<ajmitch> jan 23rd-28th are out
<ajmitch> I'll be fanboying jdub & sabdfl
<ajmitch> (LCA)
<slomo> ajmitch: ok, fine :)
<JohnnyMast> i learned the home page from dholbach with kiwi
<JohnnyMast> but okey good advise
<ajmitch> like  Homepage: http://www.async.com.br/projects/kiwi/ ?
<Hieronymus> ajmitch: yeah. Or are you supposed to shout about homepages?
<ajmitch> no, I wouldn't SHOUT
* dholbach would
<dholbach> about good ones ;)
<ajmitch> I don't even have homepage urls in my descriptions
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kiwi-0512011200/kiwi-1.9.2/debian/control
<JohnnyMast> but i see now what i did wrong
<dholbach> i think it's fancy to have it
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: and you seem to have changed the LICENSE file of the original, but these don't get copied anyway, and it might be illegal/not legally safe to change it
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus that was because of a litnian warning
<JohnnyMast> but i will change that back + fix the control file and copyright file
<JohnnyMast> after i finish my MOTU openday article that im gonna post as ref for the meeting tomorrow
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: you'd do better to contact upstream about that if lintian gave an error
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus the whole open source world should be notified about it
<JohnnyMast> because did you know the address of the foundation changed ?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: no
<JohnnyMast> thats what i mean
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: but changing it in the LICENSE file is pointless and probably illegal
<JohnnyMast> well Hieronymus dont wurry m going to change it back
<JohnnyMast> mind enuming the points of atention ?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: ehm, repeat that?
<JohnnyMast> the litle points you talked about
* Kyral yawns
<ajmitch> morning Kyral
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: okay. 1: don't change LICENSE, as it's pointless and probably illegal
<Hieronymus> 2: in debian/control, change HOMEPAGE to Homepage
<Hieronymus> 3: fix debian/copyright
<Kyral> ajmitch: Actually I just got done coding too much PHP ;p;
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus thanks for that
<Kyral> Oh anyone know whats on the MOTUSchool docket for this weekend?
<JohnnyMast> im writing about MOTU school now
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: oh, and is PKG-INFO actually going to be installed? (I'm not really sure what it is/does)
<dholbach> i added a quick line to the bug day announce :-/
<Kyral> I mean what the lesson is
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus nope its not going to be installed
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: then don't change it, as that's pointless
<JohnnyMast> its part of the source package
<LaserJock> dholbach: good
<JohnnyMast> its an info file
<JohnnyMast> it cant display wrong info
<Kyral> Host 'NebulaPeace', running Linux 2.6.15-6-386 - Cpu0: Intel 2193 MHz; Up: 1:42; Users: 2; Load: 0.06; Free: [Mem: 25/243 Mio]  [Swap: 714/714 Mio]  [/: 22758/27465 Mio] ; Vpenis: 26 cm;
<Kyral> Hostname: NebulaPeace - OS: Linux 2.6.15-6-386/i686 - CPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) (2193.155 MHz) - Processes: 43 - Uptime: 1h 42m - Load Average: 0.06 - Memory Usage: 69.20MB/242.70MB (28.51%) - Disk Usage: 3.23GB/26.94GB (12.00%)
<Kyral> oops wrong chan
<Kyral> soryr guys
<Kyral> I meant to fire it into the Forums channel
<raphink> Riddell: I modified kubuntu-grub-splashimages
<Riddell> raphink: how so?
<raphink> the Architecture stuff
<raphink> I used the grub entry in control
<raphink> I mean the Architecure field from the grub package
<Riddell> raphink: yeah, I approved it :)
<Riddell> raphink: although actually I need to reboot to make sure it really works
<raphink> Riddell: I get lintian warning doing so though
<Riddell> bah, nobody listens to lintian
<raphink> oki
<raphink> ;)
<slomo> raphink: which warning?
<raphink> several people tested it already ;)
<Kyral> hmm, which dir does debian/postinst work in while its being run?
<raphink> slomo: architectures unknown
<raphink> slomo: because in grub there's darwin-, hurd-, etc. archs
<raphink> so I kept them
<slomo> raphink: oh ok... ignore it then :)
<Riddell> I was a bit surprised to see openbsd in there
<raphink> no reason why my package shouldn't work on darwin-i386 or hurd-i386
<raphink> I did slomo :)
<slomo> but what about architecture all?
<raphink> Riddell: well there's a debian openbsd I believe... even kfreebsd
<raphink> I've seen a guy use Debian Kfreebsd as his main distro
<raphink> slomo: no, PPC don't use grub
<raphink> it's only i386 and amd
<slomo> raphink: so it's not installable because there is no grub for ppc... problem solved ;)
<raphink> s/amd/amd64/
<raphink> slomo: Riddell thought I shouldn't use all
<raphink> I guess because the machine would generate a package for ppc
<raphink> so the package would be there as _all
<raphink> but not installable
<raphink> there would be a dead dependency
<raphink> and I think he wants to avoid that ;)
* jdong puts on party hat :)
<slomo> ok, accepted :)
<raphink> ooh nice party hat jdong :)
<jdong> while blindly ignoring the financial side of the situation :)
<jdong> just got my acceptance letter from MIT
<raphink> oh great :)
<Kyral> lol
<slomo> congrats jdong :)
<Kyral> nice knowing you JDong
<\sh> jdong: are you assembling the 100$ laptops for mako?
<jdong> \sh: that'd be cool to do :)
<jdong> still have not made up my mind yet where I want to go....
<raphink> yep :)
<Kyral> Free laptops for the Ubuntu members :D
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> that'd be nice
<raphink> that'd be really cool :)
<raphink> yeah :)
<jdong> now, need to find money.....
<\sh> jdong: quanter is doing that :)
<raphink> free $100 laptops with ubuntu on them :)
<slomo> i don't need a second one... better give me a mac mini ;)
* jdong checks sofa
<raphink> LOOOOL
<raphink> slomo: if you have a laptop you don't use, think of me ... :s
* raphink was the only dev with no laptop at last conference /me attended
<Kyral> I could use a laptop for test things
<Kyral> I mean another one lol
<Kyral> I'm using a 3 year old Inspirion 1100 right now as a glorified PDA :D
<raphink> hehe
<Kyral> which is what I am on right now actually
<Kyral> armed with my Ethernet cable, Wifi-Detector, and a bunch of extendable cables, I will never have use a Windows Machine AGAIN! Mwahahaha!
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> so a PDA with IRC
<Kyral> and a 30 GB HD...
<Kyral> 2.2 Ghz Celly
<jdong> hey, I'd love a PDA with IRC...... free.....
<jdong> if Bram Cohen ever figures out how to torrent hardware... I think I'll waive my rights to a jury trial to use his software :)
<Kyral> It doesn't outperform my desktop by any stretch, but with Flux on it, it moves :D
<Kyral> except in boot time
<Kyral> this puppy boots in 14 seconds flat
<jdong> Kyral: I remember my ultra-moded Gentoo
<raphink> Riddell: I'm using cdbs for knmap. SHouldn't it generate the .pot file automatically?
<jdong> good times....
<Kyral> jdong: I just used sysv-init-perl (or something like that) and ripped out all the bootservices I didn't need
<JohnnyMast> MOTU day proposal !! www.rosiello.net/ubuntu/
<jdong> Kyral: I just had an overglorified initrd setup :)
<Kyral> lol
<raphink> Riddell: you there?
<Kyral> but you have to admit, dropping it down from 35 secs to 14 is damn nice :D
<jdong> Kyral: yeah, especially on a laptop
<Kyral> my desktop actually takes longer...
<jdong> I still find Hoary more suitable for getting speed on low-ends
<Kyral> but then again its checking a lot more
<raphink> JohnnyMast: by teachers, you mean lecturers or mentors ?
<Kyral> Dapper + Fluxbox
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: could we have that on the wiki?
<jdong> Kyral: LOL
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: reviewed your package
<JohnnyMast> dholbach lecture ppl like what ajmich did
<Kyral> Fluxbox I love :D
<JohnnyMast> and just mentor like teachers
<Kyral> I dumped XFCE in favor for it on my Desktop
<JohnnyMast> dholbach what do you think ?
<Riddell> raphink: hi
* Kyral is reminded to bug MOTUs to review EasyChem ;P
<Riddell> raphink: yes, but you need the patch
<raphink> Riddell: hmm hi ... we've been talking a few minutes ago ...
<LaserJock> Kyral: dapper+openbox would be better >:)
<raphink> Riddell: why do I need the patch?
<Riddell> raphink: sorry, my computer spontaniously rebooted :)
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: the problem is, that we need people who do it
<raphink> oooh I need to patch cdbs ?
<Riddell> raphink: to set $kdepotpath correctly in admin/cvs.sh
<Riddell> raphink: no, patch admin/cvs.sh
<raphink> hmm
<JohnnyMast> dholbach create a new team
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> so I just add the patch to patches/ in debian/ and that should do it, no?
<JohnnyMast> i would like to help but im not @ubuntu.com
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: the people are the problem, not the team :)
<JohnnyMast> no its not
<JohnnyMast> at least not to beginners
<JohnnyMast> because laser could drive those crazy with what he knows
<JohnnyMast> also raphink is a good hand
<dholbach> we should discuss it and we'd see, what the team says
<JohnnyMast> Kyral as well
<JohnnyMast> yes its just basic talk not about "how to review" because thats for the MOTU`s there selfs
<JohnnyMast> could you put it in the topic of the meeting channel ? im not sure if im abled to be there during the meeting
<Kyral> hmmmwhat?
<JohnnyMast> Kyral to be a teacher
<JohnnyMast> Kyral http://www.rosiello.net/ubuntu/
* ajmitch isn't really that good at being a teacher
* raphink has the project to write a thesis on teaching computer sciences
<ajmitch> the 'lessons' need more interaction
<raphink> yes
<raphink> I was thinking of using a graphical support
<raphink> such as slides on a website
<raphink> the lecturer could control what slide is being viewed as he talks
<raphink> just as when you give a conference
<raphink> and then I think the way questions are asked was not very friendly
<JohnnyMast> remote desktop controle to the "big ubuntu vnc" server
<raphink> I reckon it's not easy to deal with questions on a chat lecture
<ajmitch> we do what we can
<raphink> sure ajmitch, just reporting comments :)
<raphink> don't take it personaly
* ajmitch wasn't
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus, ping
* ajmitch is not really going to be available for reviewing, etc in the next 2 weeks, btw :)
<raphink> Riddell: configure is one of the files that need to be removed in debian/rules ... but if I run debuild -S -sa and then try to build the .dsc, configure is not there anymore ... so I can't build
<raphink> Riddell: I added the rm -f in the clean:: rule though :s
<ajmitch> raphink: why would configure need to be removed?
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1076
<ajmitch> if you need to get it back, re-run autoconf before calling ./configure again
<raphink> see the comment from the 22nd of november
<ajmitch> which means build-depends, evil hacks, etc
<raphink> yes
<ajmitch> ugh, massive diff :)
<Nafallo> Unpacking gnokii (from .../gnokii_0.6.8-0.2_amd64.deb) ...
<Nafallo> /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: line 6: /usr/sbin/addgroup: No such file or directory
<Nafallo> wtf? :-P
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: pong!
<raphink> ajmitch: this package depends on automake anyway anyway
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus i uploaded a new version
<ajmitch> raphink: yes, but you never call automake or autoconf
<ajmitch> unless kde.mk does so
<raphink> so I shall use the autoconf.mk
<raphink> ?
<LaserJock> could I get somebody to look at some dbg output at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5761 real quick?
<ajmitch> raphink: maybe. I haven't used it so I don't know :)
<JohnnyMast> looking
<raphink> let's see
<raphink> I'll try something else
<raphink> having it depend on automake1.9 instead of 1.6 since this is thel ast version
<raphink> isn't there a package for automake that would always depend on the last version?
<slomo> always the last version is evil
<slomo> depend on and use a version you know which works
<ajmitch> slomo++
<slomo> and the autotools cdbs class can do the rebuilding of the stuff for you... but i can't remember the options currently ;)
<raphink> slomo: I was told 1.9 works fine
<slomo> try it and when it works fine use it :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: talk to dholbach about yelp
<raphink> well it seems using automake1.9 solves the pb though
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<raphink> ooh stupid me
<raphink> lol
<ajmitch> hopefully dholbach isn't asleep yet :)
<ajmitch> raphink: ?
<raphink> nm
<raphink> hehe
<slomo> rajasun: DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_X where X = AUTOCONF, AUTOMAKE, LIBTOOL, ACLOCAL
<raphink> ajmitch: nm
<ajmitch> please enlighten the rest of us
<slomo> raphink: set the ones you need to true
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: what's the massive ttb script doing in the .diff.gz? And you haven't fixed anything, have you, or am I looking at the wrong version?
<JohnnyMast> i think ur looking @ the wrong one
<ajmitch> anything that is built when compiling the package or just building it, shouldn't need to be in the diff
* ajmitch tries to parse that sentence for english
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: link?
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1164
<ajmitch> still a 32k diff
<Hieronymus> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512141530/ttb_0.9.4-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<Hieronymus> the whole ttb program is in the diff I think
<ajmitch>  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1164
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> --- ttb-0.9.4.orig/build/scripts-2.4/ttb
<ajmitch> +++ ttb-0.9.4/build/scripts-2.4/ttb
<Hieronymus> +++ ttb-0.9.4/build/scripts-2.4/ttb
<JohnnyMast> yes its the main pytion script
<ajmitch> you aren't removing build/ in clean?
<JohnnyMast> now how did it het there
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you forgot to remove it
<JohnnyMast> *sike*
<JohnnyMast> oops
<ajmitch> the clean target is quite empty
* JohnnyMast adds it to the todo
<JohnnyMast> added
<JohnnyMast> dholbach , ping
<dholbach> ajmitch, LaserJock, JohnnyMast: on the phone
<JohnnyMast> alright
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch i found the MOTU theme song
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch http://www.rosiello.net/downloads/13%20-%20Princes%20of%20the%20Universe.ogg
<ajmitch> that's nice
* ajmitch can't listen to it right now
<JohnnyMast> well some one listen see if we all agree
<raphink> slomo: where shall I set these flags ?
<raphink> in the beginning right?
<ajmitch> dholbach: archived another upload of yours on revu :)
<slomo> raphink: yes
<raphink> DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF = true
<raphink> doesn't work
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: cool, I do like the intro
<JohnnyMast> me 2
<raphink> maybe it's automake
<JohnnyMast> we are the princes of the univerce:)
<ajmitch> sounds worrying
<raphink> oh no
<raphink> DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF = true
<raphink> oop
<raphink> DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOMAKE = 1.6
<raphink> I think
<slomo> raphink: oh, yes... sorry :) but you probably need automake, autoconf, aclocal
<raphink> slomo: I use DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF
<JohnnyMast> LaserJock there is also a ghotic like part ... i like that part
<raphink> and it says : missing separator
<slomo> raphink: use google or look at the makefile :) i can't remember how to use it, i only saw it once in another package and don't use it myself somewhere
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I think we need to email people who have packages on REVU
<ajmitch> I don't know if comments that people add are emailed out automatically, are they?
<slomo> no
<ajmitch> so there are people who uploaded back in october or earlier, who have had recent comments
<minghua> I was actually thinking that we need a list like debian-mentors
<ajmitch> minghua: possibly
<minghua> and if REVU are only used for new ubuntu packages from now on, it won't hurt to send such RFS requests to said list
<minghua> and if ubunut-motu list is not busy, it can be used for this purpose
<ajmitch> we have the motureviewers list
<ajmitch> oh dear, launchpad UI had changed again
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/motureviewers
<JohnnyMast> pygtk == python-gtk2  right ?
<minghua> JohnnyMast: yes, if pygtk > 2.0 :-)
<JohnnyMast> ok thanks
<dholbach> ajmitch: thanks
<dholbach> LaserJock: yelp?
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: nice :)
<JohnnyMast> yeah you liked it ? cool
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: why is malone 4811 still pending upload?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4811: phpmyadmin.prerm: line 12: db_get: command not found In: phpmyadmin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/4811
<JohnnyMast> good question
* ajmitch will marks it as fixed in dapper, the fix supplied is unnecessary
<JohnnyMast> yeah :( i did my best on it
<ajmitch> it just required some knowledge of an evil system called yada
<ajmitch> rather than relying on the workaround that people suggested
<ajmitch> yada is really *evil*
<JohnnyMast> i was thinking of repack it
<ajmitch> do *not* do that
<ajmitch> there's no way we'd approve that upload, no matter how broken yada is ;)
<LaserJock> dholbach: yelp crashes for me dbg output at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5761
<dholbach> LaserJock: which version is it?
<LaserJock> dholbach: of yelp, the latest in dapper
<LaserJock> dholbach: but it doesn't do it in a dapper chroot
<dholbach> anything strange in the terminal output?
<LaserJock> dholbach: I tried creating another user and it does the same thing
<LaserJock> dholbach: no
<LaserJock> dholbach: I just get a dialog box that says the yelp has quit unexpectedly
<dholbach> you just started it?
<LaserJock> dholbach: yes, anything I do with yelp is the same
<dholbach> could you try to follow the steps on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash and send the backtrace?
<Tonio_> hi again
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: another thing, use -Xubuntu1 rather than -XUubuntu1 in debdiffs :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: yeah
<dholbach> cool
<Tonio_> anyone know the process to get in a translation group in launchpa ?
<Tonio_> simply email the group's responsible ?
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch Ubuntu was in phpmyadmin?
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: mgp, malone 3197
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3197: AbiWord grammar checker does not get installed In: abiword (Ubuntu), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Ubuntu GNOME Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3197
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> 3297
<ajmitch> you also had wron bug number in changelog :)
<ajmitch> malone 3297
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3297: mgp puts binaries in /usr/X11R6/bin, which is not in the default $PATH In: mgp (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/3297
<raphink> doesn't work :(
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: also, /usr/X11/bin doesn't even seem to exist on my box
<JohnnyMast> at the time i was on that bug, i worked on breezy wich had that dir(if i remember correctly)
<ajmitch> and you know now that we do all fixes for dapper )
<ajmitch> :)
<JohnnyMast> yeah hehe
<LaserJock> dholbach: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5765
<dholbach> LaserJock: gecko_prefs_set_string() - nothing funny, if you start yelp from the terminal?
<ajmitch> Kyral: comments on easychem on REVU
<LaserJock> dholbach: what do you mean? I get nothing if I start from terminal, just error dialog
<dholbach> nothing in the terminal?
<LaserJock> no
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> but it seems to be the same issue as Nafallo had
<dholbach> you might get this output:
<LaserJock> dholbach: seems weird to me that it works fine in my chroot
<dholbach> Nafallo nafallo@darkelf:~ $ strace yelp 2&> tmp/yelp
<dholbach> Nafallo nafallo@darkelf:~ $ grep nspr tmp/yelp
<dholbach> Nafallo open("/usr/lib/libnspr4.so", O_RDONLY)  = 3
<dholbach> no, that's accurate
<dholbach> must be /usr/lib/libnspr4.so vs /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/bla/something/libnspr4.so
<ajmitch> yay
<Kyral> ajmitch: what should I do about that? Get rid of debian/copyright?
<ajmitch> more nastiness
<ajmitch> Kyral: crazy idea
<LaserJock> dholbach: "open("/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/libnspr4.so", O_RDONLY) = 3" is what I get
<dholbach> in the chroot?
<LaserJock> no
<ajmitch> Kyral: upstream should learn how to properly apply the GPL to their source ;)
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> how is that my problem? ;P
<dholbach> LaserJock: you could have different outputs in both cases
<LaserJock> dholbach: I get nothing in the chroot
<ajmitch> Kyral: debian/copyright should reflect what the source has
<Kyral> ajmitch: Ah...so I should..?
<ajmitch> ie, the source doesn't state (or any later version)
<dholbach> oh hm wlel
<dholbach> that's weird also
<dholbach> LaserJock: could you file a bug on yelp with that information?
<ajmitch> Kyral: I'm just trying to minimise the chances of elmo rejecting based on license issues
<dholbach> the trace and the version and everything?
<Kyral> ajmitch: ah...
<LaserJock> dholbach: sure, I just wanted to know if it was just me ;-)
<dholbach> LaserJock: you rock
<dholbach> thank you
<ajmitch> Kyral: I'd like to see it in, really :)
<Kyral> ...but it says GPL in the COPYing...
<ajmitch> Kyral: yes, and the COPYING file says how to apply it
<ajmitch> Kyral: upstream is meant to state if they want to use GPL 2 or later
<ajmitch> most people don't actually read the GPL :)
<Kyral> ah....so in copyright I should state GPL2?
<ajmitch> in copyright you might need to have the text that upstream uses
<ajmitch> referring to /usr/share...
* ajmitch isn't sure
<Kyral> cat COPYING >> debian/copyright
<ajmitch> and you'll get smacked down
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Good to know
<ajmitch> see http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html
<ajmitch> Common license : Do not include a license that is in /usr/share/common-licenses into your debian/copyright. That's a waste of space.
<ajmitch> there are a number of good tips in there
<ajmitch> which wiki page should link to this? :)
<Kyral> Yah no kiddin
* Kyral is still off on what he should do to rectify this mistake
<ajmitch> at minimum, remove the 'or later version' from debian/copyright
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm going to bookmark that for the Packaging Guide ;-)
<ajmitch> that will probably make it ok for upload
<Kyral> ah
<ajmitch> LaserJock: great
<Kyral> I wonder if I should wait until my @ubuntu.com goes live
<Kyral> LJ yours work yet?
<LaserJock> don't know, I doubt it
<LaserJock> do you have to put something in URL when reporting a bug on bugzilla?
<raphink> slomo: I've set the flags... debuild fails with http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/464331
<raphink> then if I try to run automake manually, I get http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/464332
<raphink> indeed aclocal is missing, although I've set it
<slomo> looks like a too old automake...
<slomo> use 1.9 as you said before
<slomo> for automake and aclocal... for autoconf 2.59
<raphink> hmm ok I'll try
<ajmitch> ah, jdong
<Kyral> JDong
<jdong> hey
<minghua> hi jdong, I have a question for you
<jdong> sure
<LaserJock> dholbach: bugzilla 21015
<minghua> jdong: what is the policy for breezy-backports with modified source now?
<dholbach> LaserJock: thanks
<jdong> minghua: currently no mod sources
<raphink> I can't set the version for autoconf but I have 2.59 on my comp slomo
<raphink> slomo: as of automake/aclocal, I get the same error with 1.9
<minghua> jdong: due to the libstdc++ allocator transition, scim can't be backported from dapper as is
<jdong> minghua: yes, I've heard that one
<jdong> minghua: I've been toying with this idea: http://ubuntubackports.org/wiki/index.php/SourceChanges
<minghua> jdong: that means no scim backports, but I'm okay with that
<jdong> minghua: correct; currently it'd mean no backport
<minghua> jdong: just to know the status, and I'll spread the words
<jdong> minghua: likewise with some other packages with these disappointingly small changes necessary.... :)
<jdong> minghua: perhaps teach them how to (responsibly) build a backport of it themselves? ;)
<slomo> raphink: *sigh* ugly autotools... what happens when you run autoreconf by hand?
<raphink> slomo: seems it works if I run `make -f Makefile.cvs' manually then automake && autoconf
<minghua> jdong: both ubuntu-ja and ubuntu-zh has their own backported repos, so I'll probably collaborate with one of them
<jdong> minghua: cool, sounds very appropriate
<slomo> raphink: what das Makefile.cvs do?
<raphink> no idea
<slomo> look at it ;)
<minghua> jdong: as currently the backporting required modifying source package (c2a back to c2), it's probably not for ordinary user :-)
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> sure
<jdong> minghua: :-/, depends on the definition of 'ordinary user' ;)
<slomo> raphink: btw, aclocal should be called first iirc... then autoconf, then automake
<minghua> jdong: okay thanks for your time, I'll update the thread on backport forum
<raphink> I tried that slomo, but it doesnt change anything, it's just setting variables, not calling subs
<jdong> against my better judgement, I shall backport xfsprogs on my system :)
<jdong> minghua: np, thanks for checking with me
<raphink> slomo: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/464341
<slomo> raphink: ah... kde magic? wonderfull... better ask someone with kde knowledge then ;) whatever this stuff in admin does
<raphink> slomo: so it runs admin/Makefile.common
<slomo> raphink: yes, what does it do?
<raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/464343
<raphink> so it calls cvs.sh
<raphink> to build the files
<ajmitch> oh nasty kde build systems
<Kyral> lol
<raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/464345
<raphink> that's what is says when building
<Kyral> ajmitch: I fixed the copyright file. should show up in REVU soon
<raphink> running
<ajmitch> Kyral: cool
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<ajmitch> ah, that was just netsplit join, hopefully he is actually around
<slomo> raphink: actually no idea... autotools themself are annoying enough sometimes but the kde buildsystem is even worse... look in the kde cdbs class if there's some variable to set for regeneration of everything you need...
<raphink> slomo: do you think I could call that in the prebuild, instead of using the _UPDATE_ flgas ?
<Kyral> Why can't people just use Makefiles?
<slomo> raphink: sure
<raphink> I'll do that then
<raphink> it's faster
<slomo> Kyral: because autotools are more confortable if you use them sane ;)
<slomo> raphink: but be carefull with the versions
<Kyral> slomo: or Autotools ;P
<raphink> sure
<Kyral> slomo: I meant instead of these insane things like Scons and xmkpf or whatever it is
<seth_k|lappy> slomo, you looked at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1070 once before, do you think you could have time to do it once more sometime?
<Kyral> Yah it hit REVU
<slomo> seth_k|lappy: sure... i'll add it to my todo list... but i can't promise anything until the weekend ;)
<Kyral> now I need slomo to advocate again ;P
<seth_k|lappy> slomo, no problems... just whenever you get a chance :D
<slomo> Kyral: url please
<raphink> seems to work
<Kyral> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1166
<slomo> Kyral: while you're at it... consider using dpatch or improve your patchsystem ;)
* Kyral falls down
<ajmitch> hehe
<Kyral> I don't know any other way
<ajmitch> so learn, or be creative
<Kyral> What the hell do you think I was doing during the lesson on Patching?
<ajmitch> I mean improving on what \sh taught
<slomo> Kyral: np, it works... but it's really a bit fragile ;) consider looking at a package which uses dpatch... hmm, ajmitch, name one :)
<ajmitch> don't ask me :P
* Kyral adds it to the list of things to do over break (if he doesn't get kicked out)
<seth_k|lappy> ajmitch, I swear swear swear noteedit is sane this time; care to peek? https://launchpad.net/bugs/5577
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5577: noteedit: merge new debian version In: noteedit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/5577
* ajmitch doesn't know anything about this packaging stuff
* Kyral hits the ground laughing
<seth_k|lappy> slomo, when should one use cdbs vs. dpatch? or is it a preference thing
<ajmitch> seth_k|lappy: you can use dpatch with cdbs
<ajmitch> since cdbs doesn't specify a patch system
<slomo> Kyral: ah, i have one... mono uses dpatch ;)
<ajmitch> seth_k|lappy: asking me to review a kde package?
* Kyral sighs
<slomo> cdbs even has a nice include for using dpatch
<ajmitch> \sh is really a better person to ask if he's around
<seth_k|lappy> alrighty
<minghua> I use dpatch exclusively
<ajmitch> slomo: you'd reject a package just because it *doesn't* use dpatch?
<Kyral> My first priortity is that a package installs sanely
<Kyral> and works as advertised
<Kyral> once thats done I can clean up the debian dir
<slomo> ajmitch: nope... that was a suggestion, no must :)
<minghua> hey ajmitch, dpatch is not _that_ bad...
<seth_k|lappy> wait, if cdbs doesn't specify a patch system, what manner of voodoo is cdbs-edit-patch? I use that normally, but I worked on a package last week that used dpatch and then I used dpatch-edit-patch, so I assumed cdbs had its own patch system.
<Kyral> in Linux voodoo usually has something to do with Bash Scripting and sed
<ajmitch> seth_k|lappy: cdbs includes an example, called simple-patchsys
<ajmitch> it also has support for quilt & dpatch
<slomo> ajmitch: in fact i already advocated it before ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: I know
<sivang> simple-patchsys doesn't require you have a 00list of patches,
<sivang> but rather on dictionary sorting of patches filenames to form order in application? ( ajmitch ?)
<sivang> s/on/an/
<ajmitch> sivang: I think so
<slomo> but dpatch allows more customization... it's even possible to run 00list through a preprocessor before using it etc ;)
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch in my revu am i allowed to code an own setup.py ?
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: depends on how crackful it is
<sivang> slomo: right, so you get many gnome stuff using this (as I've seen)
<minghua> so in simple-patchsys is there any way to have a patch but not applied (for backport purpose, for example)?
<\sh> seth_k|lappy: cdbs works with simple patch sys..which means normal diffs...it adjusted dpatch-edit-patch to cdbs-edit-patch
<ajmitch> minghua: nope, it's only a simple system
* Kyral sighs
<Kyral> I've done it again
<minghua> ajmitch: sure, fair enough.  but I think I'll stick to dpatch for now :-)
<\sh> but as we could see the last time..if someone is breaking cdbs ... nothing compiled anymore
<Kyral> I've sparked a discussion on patch systems
<seth_k|lappy> true
<ajmitch> Kyral: easychem has a few build warnings
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easychem-0512011625/easychem_0.6-0ubuntu1.buildlog
<Kyral> ajmitch: it does?
<sivang> I thought setup.py is actualyl the "debhelper" of dist-utils, that you take a template and "override" the methods to run your own customization code, if to follow OOP
<\sh> the rule but says...don't use a patch system at all, when there is no one...do your changes in the diff.gz
<ajmitch> \sh: we're talking about a new package here
<sivang> \sh: so that means manually diffing, and including all changes into the diff.gz , that will be applied by the debian/rules on build?
<Kyral> I see newline warnings....
<ajmitch> one with a patch systme learnt from the motu school :)
<\sh> well...then I prefere diff and patch and debhelper :) so I know what i'm doing :)
<ajmitch> Kyral: library.c:1: warning: ISO C forbids an empty source file
<ajmitch> as well as string length warnings
<sivang> ajmitch: he did? :-)
<Kyral> so you want me to go fix them?
<sivang> can I ask here autotools and gnu general project question guys? ;-)
<sivang> slomo: btw, packages the follow that approch seem scary :)
<sivang> slomo: (00list.in , install.in etc...)
<slomo> sivang: sure... but i can't promise that i know the answer ;)
<sivang> slomo: you know notify-send ?
<sivang> slomo: (thank alot btw)
<slomo> sivang: i know what it does... but that's it ;)
<raphink> slomo: running `make -f Makefile.cvs' in pre-build:: works fine :)
<dholbach> good night everybody
<raphink> night dholbach :)
<ajmitch> bye dholbach :)
<slomo> gn8 dholbach :)
<dholbach> night guys :)
<sivang> night dholbach
<LaserJock> good night dholbach
<Kyral> noight dholbach
<dholbach> :)
<sivang> slomo: don't worry about it. a small CLI wrapper that uses libnotify
<slomo> sivang: that's exactly what i know about it :P
<sivang> slomo: all there is, but do you know if it supports some kind of callbacks? (I wasn't abel to find those by reading it man page)
<slomo> sivang: callbacks for a CLI program? hm, i doubt it... (why don't you use the library itself?)
<\sh> going again......I don't make it...watching harry potter
<sivang> \sh: still feeling bad?
<\sh> it's getting worse
<\sh> 39.8 degree
<sivang> \sh: oh man, I hope you get better soon
<sivang> \sh: you need compresses
<sivang> \sh: (cold ones)
<\sh> not now....when it's going over 40..I had this before...:0
<ajmitch> some 'medicinal' brandy?
<sivang> yes, I think its in place
<sivang> advil or so
<sivang> slomo: ok, so I decided that I am going to use the library directly :)
<Kyral> Again I get Jeff's voice in my head going "We do NOT have a drinking problem in this project!"
<slomo> sivang: what are you doing btw? :)
<sivang> slomo: exactly for those reasons, how do I start a C project that will have all the necesary foo, for using libnotify to produce 3-4 small binaries ? :-)
<sivang> Kyral: were you in Montreal?
<Kyral> sivang: bingo :D
<Kyral> Only for the Love Day
<sivang> Kyral: oh man, I didn't meet you nor knew who you are, and we talked quite some bits over IRC :)
<Kyral> sivang: I know lol
<sivang> slomo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup
<slomo> sivang: you mean the autotools magic required for that? well, as it's C you can probably take one of the millions of tutorials out there :)
<Kyral> I met Mitch and dholbach and \sh...
<sivang> Kyral: well, I'm not nearly as half handsome and charming as they are so I guess you didn't loose too much - but it would have been nice to meet :)
<Kyral> sivang: indeed
<Kyral> I cannot wait for the next conference
<ajmitch> Mitch? who is Mitch? :P
<Kyral> Wait...I hope I can arrange transportation lol
<sivang> slomo: right. I though there was a quicker way like "you know what, this is a package I worked on - take it's auto-foo as a template and just reaplce yours" :-)
* Kyral bonkers ajmitch
<Kyral> ..damn tabcomplete dictionary
<sivang> what is bonkers?
<Kyral> I meant "bonk"
<Kyral> tab complete took it though
<sivang> slomo: anyway, will look for a tutorial :)
<slomo> sivang: i have some started but never finished projects on my hdd... but today i would do many things different ;) but look for example at... hmm... thoggen and evince autotools stuff looked nice and clean iirc
<sivang> slomo: how do you know what directives to use in configure.in ? AFAIK they change constantly :-/
* eruin shouts loudly at ATI
<sivang> and most intros appear old and out dated..
<slomo> sivang: hmmm, if you don't have any idea look at millions of examples and extract what you need from them =)
<sivang> slomo: right, I know - I'll use update-notifier :)
<slomo> sivang: isn't it written in python?
<sivang> slomo: nope, at least not according to what mvo told me. libnotify hasn't still seen a decent python binding lib
<slomo> oh, yes... seems to be C :)
<slomo> then it's a good example probably
<sivang> slomo: I hope.thanks!
<raphink> Riddell: all changes done
<slomo> sivang: but when you have some more specified questions feel free to ask me :)
<sivang> slomo: sure, thanks alot :)
<slomo> np :)
<slomo> good night everybody
<raphink> nigth slomo
<sivang> night slomo
<raphink> thanks for your patience and advice
<tseng> woo flight 2!
<eruin> hey lads, do any of you know whether package md5sums are checked after download, before install?
<ajmitch> I believe they are
<eruin> that's good enough for me :)
<eruin> I'm on a very fast, but very unstable connection
<ajmitch> the Packages.gz has an md5sum per package
<ajmitch> and Release is GPG_signed, with an md5sum of each Packages, Source, etc
<ajmitch> bbl
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-20
<raphink> anyone could review knmap please ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1167
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> I'm reviewing tex4ht
<raphink> it uses 20051130-1ubuntu1 as the version
<raphink> the maintainer is the official debian maintainer, and this package was built over 20050402.1817-1
<raphink> but  20051130-1 doesn't exist in debian sid
<raphink> so shouldn't it be 200051130-0ubuntu1 ?
<raphink> ajmitch: any idea?
<raphink> slomo: ?
<minghua> raphink: I _think_ it was in NEW but now seems to be rejected
<minghua> let me check
<raphink> ah ok
<raphink> where do you see that minghua ?
<minghua> raphink: I remembered correctly: http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2005/12/msg00115.html
<raphink> oh it's on the lists
<raphink> there's no web interface?
<minghua> raphink: no idea where it is now though, not in the NEW queue for sure
<raphink> ok thanks
<minghua> raphink: oh you don't know the web interace for NEW queue?  http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<raphink> thanks
<minghua> raphink: I've seen tex4ht there a few days ago
<raphink> ok
<raphink> good
<minghua> raphink: and if you follow that thread, you'll the package has a few problems, and the maintainer is improving it
<raphink> ok
<_sergio> hello
<_sergio> anyone know about faad, or gstreamer0.8-faad plugin support in ubuntu?
<crimsun> what about it?
<crimsun> 500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/multiverse Packages
<LaserJock> \sh: feeling any better?
<\sh> na i just woke up again...
<ajmitch> can't sleep now?
<\sh> ajmitch: I slept the whole day every once and a while...
<ajmitch> hm
<\sh> I tried to watch some movies today....just felt asleep in the middle of them...and woke up right after the end...well...I should go to a doctor
<ajmitch> yeah, I think it's a good idea
<ajmitch> you've been well for too long, and now you're sicker than you should be
<\sh> oh..and btw..whenever you have the chance to watch harry potter and the goblet of fire...please watch it..one of the best
<LaserJock> \sh: I haven't seen any of them. I should do that some time.
<\sh> oh...the european parlament just agreed, that all phone, fax, sms, email etc. traffic must be stored for more the a reasonable time...means...we have to send now only emails gpg encrypted..so they have garbage
<\sh> LaserJock: read the books first..much better, more fun :)
<LaserJock> \sh: really, cool.
<LaserJock> \sh: how long do they want to store them?
<ajmitch> years?
<\sh> more then min. 18 months
<ajmitch> crazy
<LaserJock> seems like there wouldn't be enough space for all that, phones especially
<ajmitch> since obviously all citizens are potential terrorists..
<\sh> LaserJock: oh the goverment only needs to grab the data...the companies have to save them in a secure place..that again is a really big problem
<\sh> good morning ogra
<ajmitch> so all companies need to save phone calls, emails, etc for all employees?
<\sh> ajmitch: for all customers
<ajmitch> hm
<\sh> ajmitch: for most of the companies which are using exchange, saving mails is default
<ajmitch> s/saving/anything with/
<\sh> ajmitch: my former companie is doing that a long time...and lawful interception is now going to be crazy
<raphink> thanks for reviewing grub-splashimages Riddell :)
<freeflying> raphink: hi
<raphink> hi freeflying
<Kyral> someone tell me when is the worse time for a crash when using ext3?
<Kyral> because I think it just happened to one of my friends
<ajmitch> Kyral: when the hard drive goes down in flames?
<Kyral> I meant for the Journel...
<ajmitch> same answer :)
<ajmitch> it's generally fairly robust
<Kyral> Basically he pulled the power in the middle of an Apt install and when it came up (after 4 tries) it wouldn't let him sudo saying something in Var is RO
<Kyral> and he can't use his file manager
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> that was a fairly stupid thing to do then
<Kyral> I think he pulled the power in the worst moment lol
<Kyral> I told him to go to recovery mode and set the mount count on the drive to 100
<Kyral> to force a check :D
<ajmitch> or he could use fsck, which does the same thing..
<Kyral> he only has one partition (aside from swap) and no LiveCDs
<ajmitch> clever
<Kyral> He's not one of us who carries a LiveCD wherever they go
<Kyral> ;P
<ajmitch> the ones in my bag are dead :)
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> a patch on the reflective layer is damaged
<raphink> gn guys :)
<lifeless> help!
<lifeless> I need a motu with ~ 10 minutes of spare cycle
<lifeless> s
<lifeless> we've got a problem we're tracking down with the launchpad code base on amd64, and we'd like a patch to libgpgme11 1.0.2-1build1 to build a -dbg package
<lifeless> I'm insanely busy today, so I'm hoping one of you kind folk has the time to do this [minor]  tweak
<lifeless> Nafallo: thanks!
<lifeless> Nafallo: its really easy:
<lifeless> 1) check debian/compat == 5
<lifeless> 2) add a control rule for libgpgme11-dbg with appropriate description etc
<lifeless> set the dependencies to libgpgme11 (= ${Source-Version}) (check that for typos ;))
<lifeless> 3) when dh_strip is called, add --dbg-package=libgpgme11-dbg
<lifeless> test ;)
<Nafallo> yea, I've given it to pbuilder. why compat 5?
<lifeless> compat 4 has different behaviour
<lifeless> man dh_strip for the details
<Nafallo> hmm, it was using 3 ;-)
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> oh, and build-dep on binutils, my bad ;)
<Nafallo> it was for amd64, right? :-)
<lifeless> dont need binaries
<lifeless> in the DC everything is rebuilt anyway
<Nafallo> oh nm, it was :-)
<lifeless> just an interdiff against the prior .diff.gz will be great, because I can feed that to Znarl
<Nafallo> dooh
<Nafallo> http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/repo/foo/
<Nafallo> http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/gpgme1.0_1.0.2-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<lifeless> Access forbidden!
<Nafallo> oh?
<lifeless> try it ;)
<Nafallo> dooh
* Nafallo looked at the wrong file :-P
<Nafallo> done now
<lifeless> nice. A small bit of feedback ..
<lifeless> + This package contains the debug version of the library found in libgpgme11.
<lifeless> +
<lifeless> more accurate would be:
<lifeless> This package contains debug symbols for the library found in libgpgme11.
<lifeless> (its not a full library in there)
<lifeless> thanks heaps.
<Nafallo> true :-). I stole the desc from libdmx-dbg ;-)
<Nafallo> so I totally blame daniels ;-)
<lifeless> well hes on crack, so whaddya expect ;)
<Nafallo> hehe
<jsgotangco> ok waiting for flight 2 download to finish
<jsgotangco> 2 hours argh!
<Nafallo> I did that before the announcement today and then just kept seeding ;-)
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Yagisan> I've found a w32codecs package in an unofficial debian repo that is an installer like msttcorefonts, can we include it in ubuntu ?
<jsgotangco> i believe those are reverse engineered codecs from the original ms codecs
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: It's just an installer, it wgets the codecs from the web
<jsgotangco> ah it grabs the codecs from MS? neat
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: actually, from an mplayer mirror
<Yagisan> no objections ?
<jsgotangco> i still find it dodgy though
<minghua> not sure.  the ms core fonts have a license that allows redistribution, what about the codecs?
<Yagisan> minghua: I'll see if I can check the codecs, but they are mirrored over the web, and end up on magazine cd's every month or so
<Yagisan> I thought it might be useful, since ubuntu isn't actually distributing the codecs, it just distributes an installer, like with flash, and other non-free apps
<minghua> Yagisan: that would be good.  if it has a redistributable license I don't see any reason to object such an installer package
<LaserJock_> hi dholbach
<dholbach> good morning motus
<LaserJock_> dholbach: how's it going?
<dholbach> nicely... just need to wake up :)
<dholbach> some coffee will do and get me through the status update meeting
<LaserJock_> hmm, I need to get to bed
<LaserJock_> just working on the Packaging Guide a bit before I do
<siretart> morning
<bojan> morning!
<Yagisan> G'day siretart
<Yagisan> I'll be starting work on the backport package a bit latter tonight, mind if I ask you some questions about it later ?
<zakame> hello from manila! :D
<dholbach> hello zakame
<dholbach> how are you? how's life over there?
<zakame> hi dholbach ! :D
<Yagisan> slomo: can we add x264 support to mplayer ? It would need the x264 package from here http://apt.cerkinfo.be/pool/main/x264/ and to add libx264-dev as a build-dep
<zakame> just arrived in Manila from Daet, after a rather uneventful 7-hour busride :)
<slomo> Yagisan: that's only an encoder, right? but sure, i have it already an my todo list... if it's important enough for you just package x264 :) i'll get to this or next weekend otherwise
<slomo> Yagisan: oh, no need to... marillat already has a package for it... let's see if we can take it...
<Yagisan> slomo: I found the cerkinfo package :) and yes it is an encoder
<slomo> so only relevant for mencoder... ok
<slomo> oh no... another static-only lib :(
* slomo begins to cry
<Yagisan> slomo: It lets me encode mpeg4 part 10 streams , instead of mpeg4 part 2
<zakame> yay! gtklp fanmail! :D
<Yagisan> slomo: the cerkinfo one doesn't look static
<slomo> Yagisan: yes, h264... btw, does decoding it work for you with current mplayer?
<Yagisan> slomo: decode "should" work with your new mplayer, but not encode
<slomo> Yagisan: but it _should_ be... upstream doesn't build shared libs by default and they seem to have fun with breaking API/ABI
<slomo> Yagisan: yes, it should ;) but i have nothing to test it :(
<Yagisan> slomo: the cerkinfo guy split out ffmpeg for his mplayer
<Yagisan> slomo: I do :)
<slomo> Yagisan: what is cerkinfo btw?
<siretart> slomo: I've seen that marillat has a new dvd copying software called k9copy now
<Yagisan> slomo: http://apt.cerkinfo.be/
<siretart> slomo: it builds in dapper, but thats all what I tried. I intend to upload it the next days. Just wanted to ask if you have heared about it
<slomo> siretart: ok, let's get it if they're not insane (i.e. ship css ;) )
<slomo> siretart: no, never heard of it... can you get x264 in while you're at it? ;)
<siretart> slomo: if I understood it correctly it is a kde frontend to dvdauthor (which we already have)
<siretart> I haven't even heard about x264
<sivang> morning all
<zakame> hi sivang ! :)
<Yagisan> slomo: breezys mplayer can decode x264 streams easily
<slomo> siretart: it's just a h264 encoding library... which definitly needs to go to multiverse
<slomo> Yagisan: yes but i ask for the dapper one ;P
<Yagisan> siretart: mpeg4 part 10 - think high-qulaity xvid
<zakame> dholbach: w00t! :D
<siretart> Yagisan: I assume it is highly patent encumbered
<Yagisan> slomo: dapper has a more compatible h264 decoding libary, I doubt there is a regression
<Yagisan> siretart: so is jpeg
<slomo> siretart: sure... what do you expect? it's mpeg :P
<Yagisan> siretart: it is also an iso standard
<siretart> Yagisan: iso allows patented algorithm to be standardised :( (is this spelled correctly?)
<zakame> siretart: yup :D
<zakame> though standardized is also ok
<Yagisan> siretart: yep, ignore the overuse of the letter zed
<siretart> Yagisan: you want to join MOTUMedia, btw?
<zakame> hehe
<Yagisan> siretart: I lack programming skills for that, but I can help test if you like ?
<slomo> siretart: they allow everything, as long as it can be licensed under non-discriminatory terms
<Yagisan> siretart: I took an interest in this when my daughter started using my dvds for teething
<siretart> Yagisan: you could try to package x264 and upload it to revu, using our MOTUMedia list as maintainer :)
<Yagisan> siretart: sure
<siretart> I'm at work, and will be able to work on packages not before this late afternoon
<slomo> siretart: x264 is already packaged by marillat... another static-only library to make us happy
<siretart> ah, sounds easy then
<Yagisan> slomo: I have a non-static libary
<Yagisan> slomo: It also produces the x264 stand alone encoder
<slomo> Yagisan: which is most probably hacked in... at least their svn versions don't build a shared library
<Yagisan> slomo: I'll take another look at the package then
<slomo> Yagisan: thanks :)
<jsgotangco> hey dholbach
<Yagisan> slomo: I can't find anything hackish to make a static lib here, anyway I've tossed it into pbuilder, lets see what pops out
<dholbach> re :)
<zakame> wb dholbach
<slomo> Yagisan: --enable-shared to configure?
<Yagisan> slomo: no, want me to send you the package ? ~300K
<Yagisan> slomo: dappers mplayer plays back x264 files fine with the h264 decoder :)
<slomo> Yagisan: no, not needed... anyway, we only have a libx264-dev package... so there's no normal package for the shared library... seems to be a mistake by the packager that it's included
<Yagisan> slomo: x264 does have a standalone encoder
<Yagisan> slomo: mainly used by m$ windows users x264.exe
<slomo> Yagisan: i know :)
<Yagisan> argh, I forgot to backport yasm to build it
<Yagisan> slomo: I'll fix the deps and send you a link when x264 is in revu
<slomo> Yagisan: thanks
<Yagisan> slomo: Who should I add for the uploader field ? I'm not a motu, so I can't upload
<slomo> Yagisan: for x264? well, if the marillat package is fine just upload it without changing :)
<slomo> Yagisan: leave uploader/maintainer as it is
<Yagisan> slomo: It's not a marrilat package - but I'll leave maintainer intact
<slomo> Yagisan: the one by noel?
<Yagisan> slomo: yep
<slomo> Yagisan: it's almost the same except marillat's packaging looked a bit cleaner at the first look ;)
<Yagisan> slomo: I didn't see it in marillat's repo, I'll look again
<slomo> it's in x/x264
<Yagisan> slomo: It seems marrilat has a slightly newer version. /me downloads
<slomo> Yagisan: ok :)
<Yagisan> slomo: I heard you you upload rights to main a while ago ?
<Yagisan> s/you you/you got
<slomo> yes
<Yagisan> slomo: congratulations
<slomo> thanks :)
<Yagisan> slomo: Finally agreed on a name for my son yesterday, only took almost 4 weeks
<ajmitch> hi
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch, how are things in kiwi land ?
<zakame> hi ajmitch :D
<ajmitch> great, how's things going over your side?
<ajmitch> how's the family?
<siretart> morning ajmitch :)
<slomo> hi ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<ajmitch> siretart: revu-build question - when I run it, I don't have permission to write out the filelists, postinsts, etc
<ajmitch> can we make the directories owned by a group so we can all write there?
<siretart> ajmitch: it should call pbuilder with root
<ajmitch> pbuilder is called with root
<siretart> i.e. with sudo
<ajmitch> but the other files generated are done as the user
<ajmitch> since revu-build calls dpkg-deb
<siretart> ah, but it cannot write the output files, damn
<ajmitch> if /var/revu/revu1-incoming is group-writeable & sticky, it should be fine
<siretart> ajmitch: add yourself to the group 'revu'
<ajmitch> actually all the dirs are owned by revu..
<ajmitch> hm
<siretart> ajmitch: the incoming directories should be group writeable
* ajmitch should have spotted that ;)(
<Yagisan> ajmitch: family is ok, named my son at last, and I now need to arm myself to go to the shops because of the rioting fucktards
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that crazy there?
<siretart> ajmitch: if they aren't, then sudo chown/chmod it, they should be, if not, there is somewhere a bug then
<ajmitch> siretart: yeah they are
<ajmitch> siretart: with revu2, do you think email notification of comments will be useful?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: we'll the lebs have pssed off every single other ethnic group, and were attacking children, and burning churches near my house
<Yagisan> ajmitch: so yes, that crazy
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that's insane
<siretart> ajmitch: very useful!
<Yagisan> ajmitch: they opened fire on a christian primary school!!!
<ajmitch> siretart: I notice that we can have a month or two go by without a comment, and then someone adds one
<zakame> Yagisan: whoa
<ajmitch> Yagisan: the lebanese people?
<ajmitch> or others?
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yes, the lebanese people
<siretart> ajmitch: /me too, we need to fix that with revu2
* ajmitch wouldn't have thought they'd do that
* Yagisan is the only white guy in his area
<ajmitch> I thought lebanon was still majority Christian anyway
<Yagisan> ajmitch: they did. The school is a 20 minute walk from my house
<Yagisan> ajmitch: it is actually the muslim lebanese that are causing the trouble
<ajmitch> a shame
<Yagisan> ajmitch: the burnt down a church belonging to pacific islanders near auburn hospital
<ajmitch> I can understand why people are getting very mad over it
<Yagisan> ajmitch: It's a religious problem
<zakame> ajmitch: if you have time, could you check my libmemcache http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=929 ? :)
<ajmitch> religious & ethnic
<ajmitch> and just general stupidity
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yep - and all I see on OS media is "white supremacists" attacked blah blah blah
<ajmitch> zakame: 420KB diff?
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> in wellington there were posters put up calling for 'white power' to rise up.. etc
<ajmitch> more crap but it never goes anywhere here
<zakame> ajmitch: yep, autotools update
<Yagisan> ajmitch: yep, but I saw the crowds, it was whites, blacks, asians, and pacific islanders taking revenge on anyone that looked like a leb
<zakame> though I suspect I could drop that
<ajmitch> zakame: it's an awful lot for me to scroll through
<zakame> waah
<jsgotangco> but its nothing for the dark motu lord ajmitch
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I hope you come to dunedin just so I can dunk you in the harbour :)
<zakame> haha
<Yagisan> slomo: x264 has been sent to revu. Should appear in 10 minutes
<slomo> Yagisan: thanks... any changes from marillat?
<Yagisan> slomo: just s/unstable/dapper and adding multiverse to control. probally should have made the -dev an all instead of any
<slomo> Yagisan: no... any is needed
<Yagisan> slomo: oh ? I'd have though headers should be arch all. Nice to know I didn't stuff up then.
<slomo> Yagisan: it's not only headers but the static library and in this case also the shared one which shouldn't be in the -dev package ;)
<Yagisan> slomo: you are quite right. That is a stuff up
<zakame> thanks ajmitch :D
<zakame> bbl
<lucas> hi all
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, have you seen AsiaBusinessTour?
<slomo> bbl
<Yagisan> siretart: not wanting to sound dumb, but was my upload rejected from revu ?
<lucas> Yagisan: if it's not in the list, it was rejected
<lucas> the most common error (everybody does it once) is that REVU uploads have to be source-only
<Yagisan> lucas: I see, I did source + binary. /me adjusts the pbuilder config
<lucas> or dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -I.bzr
<siretart> Yagisan: jepp, it was rejected. revu only reacts to *_source.changes files for now
<siretart> Yagisan: shall I remove your upload?
<Yagisan> siretart, lucas: thanks. It's been a while since I used revu. siretart please remove, an new source only upload is on its way
<siretart> Yagisan: done, you may reupload now
<Yagisan> siretart: thanks
<Yagisan> x264 correctly uploaded now
<Yagisan> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1178
<Yagisan> bbl
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: interesting :)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I see of course there's an NZ entry, for LCA
<jsgotangco> well yeah i guess its logical to stay for a day or 2 for business
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> dunno who they're going to meet & talk to :)
<jsgotangco> it'll probably be different generally in asia
<ajmitch> certainly
<ajmitch> dunedin is a slightly smaller place, there might be interested businesses here & a local LUG
* ajmitch wonders how \sh is today
<ajmitch> I should either file a bug on this or just fixup the merge
<raphink> how do we deal with NMU in Ubuntu?
<ogra> raphink, how would you do an NMU with non personalized packages ?
<ogra> there are no NMUs
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so we just ignore NMU warnings in lintian
<ogra> its nice to talk to the guy who touched the package last though
<ogra> yes
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<StevenK> Well, there are sorta no MU's in universe, either. :-)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> ogra: do you have some time to review packages?
<raphink> siretart: are you there?
<siretart> raphink: yepp
<raphink> hi siretart
<raphink> I requested membership for the reviewers team on LP
<raphink> do you think I could apply?
<siretart> raphink: when I'm home, (in a few hours), okay?
<raphink> ok :)
<siretart> bah, svenl is accusing me being too harsh and aggressive..
<siretart> I think I did it :/
<zakame> evening all
<lucas> hi zakame
<zakame> hey lucas :) how's ruby?
<lucas> probably good, since RubyOnRails 1.0 is out and ruby must be all over the news
<zakame> yeah, i read that on planet debian as well :)
<\sh> *cough* moins
<imnes> I've downloaded some package sources with apt-get source gnome-panel and made some code changes, what commands do I need to build / install to test it out?
<Amaranth> imnes: cd into the gnome-panel-2.12.whatever dir and run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc
<imnes> After making changes should I bump the verison number on the directory or does it not matter?
<Amaranth> you'd edit the debian/changelog file but it doesn't matter if you're doing local patching
<Amaranth> if you're patching breezy it'll more or less be a patch for you only, breezy is frozen
<imnes> Yeah I'd like to do an official patch for the dev releases if it hasn't already been implemented, basically I'd like to add a gconf key to toggle drawing the arrow on a panel menu button.  Right now (in breezy anyway) it's hardcoded to always draw.
<pesco> Greetings, MOTU. Is this also the right channel for packages in the multiverse?
<\sh> dholbach: ping
<\sh> dholbach: if you could have a look on istanbul...same problem as the last time..different file sizes of orig.tar.gz and seb128 touched it the last time...
<thierry> is it possible to package something from scratch with cdbs??
<Amaranth> yes
<imnes> Amaranth: works great, thanks for the help.
<thierry> ok but is there any howto on how to package something from scrach with cdbs... all I get is howto about how to switch a package to cdbs...
<JohnnyMast> hellow
<thierry> hi
<JohnnyMast> everything alright ?
<thierry> JohnnyMast : what do you mean?
<JohnnyMast> if ur fine
<thierry> yes yes
<thierry> I just don't know if there is any howto on how to package something from scrach with cdbs... all I get is howto about how to switch a package to cdbs...
<JohnnyMast> you should look on debian i think
<JohnnyMast> OR
<azeem> thierry: you just drop the three or four well known include /usr/share/cdbs/1/foo/bar.mk lines into debian/rules and fix up anything which breaks
<JohnnyMast> check the chatlogs from #ubuntu-motu-school with ajmitch giving a lecruee
<thierry> azeem : seriously? wow! so I make the debian/rules and the control and changelog file and that's it? I try building it?
<azeem> thierry: well, the difference between cdbs and non-cdbs is only in debian/rules
<azeem> and a Build-Depends on cdbs, of course
<jamessan> yes, but it'd be good if you understood how things work without cdbs.
<azeem> so just make the package like you would otherwise, and write a debian/rules for cdbs, which is trivial for easy projects
<thierry> jamessan : yeah... but I got a easy project to try and it just looks so longggg without cdbs...
<JohnnyMast> thierry welcome to packaging  :)
<thierry> :)
<jamessan> thierry: it is a bit longer, but then you understand how things truly work behind the curtains
<thierry> the long stuff doesn't bother me... it just the long AND hard to understand that bother me
<azeem> you should really try to understand them
<thierry> I've learn a lot with the last course on motu-school about package without cdbs or debhelper but some stuff just looks impossible to understand...
<dholbach> \sh: dunno what debian did on that project *shrug*
<JohnnyMast> when is/was the meeting ?
<\sh> dholbach: they brought in 0.1.1-1 ,)
<\sh> dholbach: and I wonder why the don't use our orig.tar.gz but a different one....or we used a different one...
<dholbach> \sh: i used upstream's one
<dholbach> oh well
<\sh> dholbach: seriously...how can we avoid this..it makes life not much easier for us :)
<thierry> JohnyMast : the 10 december
<dholbach> \sh: we can't
<JohnnyMast> thierry no not that one
<JohnnyMast> the motu meeting now the motu-school
<JohnnyMast> i wrote a plan op dholbach`s Open day
<JohnnyMast> *on
<ogra> \sh, life ? easy ?
<ogra> hahahaha
<\sh> ogra: i'm refering to virtual life...this should be easier then real life :)
<\sh> but I CAN BE WRONG (tm)
<ogra> :)
<\sh> oh damn....not again...fever starts again...this morning it just dropped below 38 deg C...and now...oh wow
<JohnnyMast> thierry : http://www.rosiello.net/ubuntu/
<\sh> ogra: how is suse doing? getting better?
<thierry> JohnnyMast : wow... great Idea...
<thierry> JohnnyMast : I think I'll post my questions there next time
<JohnnyMast> well it still has to be discussed during the MOTU meeting wich i queryed for earlyr
<thierry> k, but I really think it's a great idea
<ogra> \sh, got a tooth pulled today ...
<ogra> hopefully that helps ....
<JohnnyMast> :) you can also msn me or email me if you cant find some one to help or ppl are bussy
<\sh> ogra: ugh...thank god I'm avoiding the dentist ,)
<JohnnyMast> aah its the next hour
<thierry> JohnnyMast : what's your msn?
<JohnnyMast> ravecoolr@hotmail.com
<pef> hello
* JohnnyMast is afk ... eating 
<JohnnyMast> hello pef
<thierry> JohnnyMast : just added you to my list
<thierry> JohnnyMast : How can I create a new changelog with dch?
<azeem> dch -n
<Hieronymus> thierry: http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/2005/12/09/%23ubuntu-motu-school.log
<Hieronymus> thierry: bookmark that
<thierry> Hieronymus : k but I know what is a changelog, I just don't know how to create one with dch
<thierry> azeem : do I have the create a empty changelog file before?
<azeem> oh, that
<azeem> I thought you meant a new changelog entry
<azeem> dunno about that, sorry
<thesaltydog> thierry.. dch is quite useless. Just edit the changelog
<JohnnyMast> thierry ok added
<jamessan> thesaltydog: what's wrong with dch?
<thesaltydog> nothing...
<thesaltydog> I said it is just easier to edit the ChangeLog
<jamessan> dch auto-updates the timestamp for you, and builds any necessary template you may need.  I don't see how that's useless.  *shrug*
<thesaltydog> ok, sorry. I just prefer to do it myself.
<JohnnyMast> thierry whats you msn name ? i dont see you
<dholbach> crimsun, slomo_, siretart, anybodyinterestedinmediastuff: meeting now?
<siretart> dholbach: yepp
<siretart> dholbach: err
<siretart> dholbach: didn't we say 1900 UTC?
<dholbach> utc, ok ok:)
<siretart> uuuh, MOTU Meeting today, too?
<siretart> I must have missed the announcement :)
<dholbach> i didnt schedule it :)
<LaserJock> ok, so is there a MOTU Meeting today or not?
<dholbach> yes
<LaserJock> 19:00 UTC?
<dholbach> 20
<ogra> siretart, you announced a MOTUMeeting
<dholbach> ogra: no, he announced a media meeting
<LaserJock> hmm, fridge says 19:00 UTC
<ogra> in your subject line;)
<ogra> dholbach, yes in his text ...
<dholbach> "Our next MOTU Meeting is scheduled for Saturday, 05. November, 21:40 UTC."
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> come again next year
<ogra> heh
<siretart> ogra: did I had a typo? I only wanted to announce the MOTUMedia meeting
* siretart rechecks
<ogra> i think the subject said MOTUMeeting
<siretart> oh darn, I wrote MOTUMeeting in the subject line
<ogra> and the content MEDIAMeeting :)
<ogra> or similar
<dholbach> so let's agree on a NEW date and time for the motumeeting
<siretart> well, all members of MOTUMedia are MOTUs, so it isn't that much of difference, isn't it? ;)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting is open for new points
<ogra> dholbach, NEW ?
<ogra> dholbach, so we need elmo approval ?
<dholbach> ogra: there was no time fixed officially
* dholbach strangles ogra with passion
<ogra> kidding here ... ignore me :)
<siretart> ogra: well, sorry for the confusing subject. I should have made a note
<ogra> mmmm, passion .... fruit
<siretart> dholbach: do we have open points for a MOTU Meeting?
<dholbach> not really
<dholbach> i just blanked the agenda
<siretart> I mean, we can discuss general motu stuff afterwards
* dholbach whistles innocently
<siretart> hehe
<dholbach> we should have a proper motu meeting
<dholbach> announce it 2 weeks before on our mailing list
<dholbach> invite people to add stuff on the agenda, ...
<ogra> as always
<siretart> hehe
<ogra> :)
<dholbach> yeah, but funkier and bigger this time
<dholbach> greater, bigger and better
<dholbach> you know... :)
<ogra> as always
* dholbach strangles ogra with passion
<ogra> as always
<ogra> :)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o dholbach]  by ChanServ
<dholbach> GRRRRRRRR
* dholbach hopes that was impressive enough ;)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o dholbach]  by dholbach
<ogra> evil :)
<LaserJock> ok, so we are not going to have a formal MOTU meeting today?
<ogra> nope
<dholbach> ogra: don't ridicule the motu flash factor, i mean it :)
<ogra> dholbach, be careful, i have pics of you .... dancing ....
<ogra> ;)
<dholbach> post them online ;)
* dholbach doesn't care
<LaserJock> hmm, that would be a good fridge.u.c
<dholbach> ogra: if you take pictures from weird angles, i will always look stupid/weird :)
<ogra> hehe
<LaserJock> hmm, if you take pictures of me from any angle I will look stupid/weird ;-)
<siretart> does anyone use 2.6.15 with madwifi?
* ogra looks always sexy from all angles 
<ogra> ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> i just smell weird
* LaserJock goes back to work since the MOTU Meeting was a hoax ;-)
<\sh> ogra: you don't have a abdominal influenza...so you can't smell weired
<ogra> \sh, you smoke way to much to judge about that :)
<LaserJock> \sh: still sick ay?
<\sh> siretart: will test it with flight-2 on sunday
<siretart> \sh: aaah good idea
<\sh> LaserJock: yeah..well..fever goes up and down...and now it looks like something is really wrong with my stomach...
<LaserJock> \sh: man, that is terrible. I usually get sick around Christmas, last year really bad. It always makes the holiday season nice :(
<\sh> LaserJock: after this..I think i'm "ticking" normal again....this illness was somehow overdue
<LaserJock> I get to see my family 1 time a year and I end up throwing up the whole time
<LaserJock> \sh: yeah, I seem to do that to. I will go for a couple years without having to much and BAM!, it hits me
<kos_tom> hi
<kos_tom> siretart: hi
<kos_tom> siretart: i'm currently uploading gcompris 7.2 to revu.
<siretart> kos_tom: cool!
<sistpoty> hi folks
<raphink> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi raphink
<raphink> :)
<raphink> would you have time to review some package of mine?
<sistpoty> raphink: not right now, as there is motumediameeting in ubuntu-meeting... maybe later
<raphink> yes I just saw that
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> morning all, what's up in MOTU land?
<ajmitch> since we don't have a MOTU meeting  or anything ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
* ajmitch reads the devel list & sighs
<LaserJock> ajmitch: Linus's opinion of Gnome?
<kos_tom> lucas: hi.
<lucas> hi all & kos_tom
<JohnnyMast> sup hackers
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yeah, pointless to try & stir that up again
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I agree, kinda weird.
<herve> hello
<ajmitch> hey herve
<JohnnyMast> hi Jimbob_ welcome
<Jimbob_> Hi JohnnyMast
<Jimbob_> I'm actually jcape, just had a power hiccup
<JohnnyMast> i know you are
<JohnnyMast> * Jimbob_ (i=jcape@ <--
<jcape> Ok
<dholbach> we're having a QUICK motu meeting atm
<dholbach> current topic: REVU
<ajmitch> dholbach: sigh
<dholbach> ajmitch: *sigh back*
<crimsun> LaserJock: bookmarked, will look tonight.
<LaserJock> thanks
* magnon_ cut his hair short today
<ajmitch> hey magnon_ :)
<magnon_> I feel so... free, but at the same time naked
<magnon_> hey :)
* \sh goes to bed and watches "The Interpreter"
<\sh> good night..but I think I'm coming back later this night
<JohnnyMast> owwkey ??
<ajmitch> bzr is great..
<JohnnyMast> why am i unsubscibed from the reviewers mailing ?
<ajmitch> updating to 0.1.5, bzr branch ../f-spot-0.1.4/debian/
* ajmitch shrugs
<JohnnyMast> :/
<ajmitch> usually it's because of bouncing mail
<Tonio_> hi all
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: don't worry...
<ajmitch> From: motu-reviewers-bounces@tauware.de
<ajmitch> To: universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> it's the bug list being unsubscribed
<siretart> dholbach: I just unsubscribed universe-bugs@ from motu-reviewers@tauware.de
<dholbach> ok
<siretart> dholbach: you shouldn't get annoying mails anymore
<dholbach> super
<lucas> I have a few merges waiting related to ruby packages
<lucas> could somebody take a look at them ? I'd like to do others, but don't want to start working on them before I'm sure I'm doing everything right
<dholbach> slomo_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Media
<slomo_> dholbach: thanks :) but i'll go to bed now...
<slomo_> gn8 everybody :)
<crimsun> 'night
<dholbach> slomo_: righto, good night :)
<sistpoty> gn8 slomo_:
<ajmitch> lucas: email \sh about them
<ajmitch> he's offered to handle a bit of reviewing for the next week or so
<lucas> ok I will
* ajmitch decides that randomly editing apache2 & php config might be annoying, and adds them to bzr :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is there a place to look at the revu2 code?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi
<sistpoty> (hopefully there is a link to public svn in there)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: thanks
<sistpoty> LaserJock: svn is here: http://tiber.tauware.de/svn/revu2/
<herve> good night
<LaserJock> sistpoty: thanks again
<sistpoty> np
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<kos_tom> siretart: I thought that I was supposed to receive an e-mail with my password on Revu after my first upload. I still didn't receive an e-mail, while my upload is available on the Revu website. Is it the expected behaviour ?
<lucas> kos_tom: try to log in
<lucas> with a random pw
<LaserJock> kos_tom: I think you need to do the password recovery on the revu site
<lucas> then ask for a lost password
<siretart> kos_tom: yes. revu currently doesn't send any emails at all
<siretart> kos_tom: use the recover link to learn your password. use as login the email adress you put in the changes file
<kos_tom> ok, works
<kos_tom> thanks !
<raphink> dholbach: would you have some time to approve a small diff on a package you already advocated ?
<dholbach> the link is?
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1102
<raphink> hopefully the file will appear in a very short time
<raphink> gree
<raphink> grr slow system ;)
<dholbach> sure, you don'T have to ask for a new "ack"
<dholbach> it's ok :)
<raphink> really?
<raphink> I thought so
<dholbach> yeah
<raphink> you mean if it's been aproved twice it works, even if not the same version?
<raphink> sounds strange to me
<raphink> ok it's up : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1102
<raphink> just moved bash executables from /usr/bin to /usr/sbin where they should be ;)
<LaserJock> The advocate counter get's reset at each upload
<raphink> yes
<siretart> could anyone please have a short look at my summary to the media team meeting?
<siretart> http://paste.debian.net/3236
<raphink> so it has to be advocated agagin
<raphink> again
<dholbach> it's just, if A gives you a vote, B gives you a vote on another upload and the diff is tiny, then you don't need to run around for weeks to find another motu give an ok :)
<siretart> if I havn't missed an important point, i'd like to send it as is
<raphink> oh ok dholbach :)
<raphink> taht's why I ask
<sistpoty> dholbach: did you upload it already?
<raphink> siretart: could you have a look at it, too?
<dholbach> we're maybe picky and anal, but we're not stupid :)
<raphink> I know that dholbach, of course ;)
<siretart> raphink: later, I'll have to write the minutes of the motu meeting now
<siretart> sorry
<raphink> dholbach: why would I want to become a MOTU, if I thought they were stupid people ? ;)
<raphink> siretart: np
<dholbach> siretart: looks great
<dholbach> sistpoty: you had a look too? :)
<siretart> dholbach: shall I include ubuntu-devel-announce, too?
<sistpoty> dholbach: not yet... but in case you uploaded it, I would have said that it would have been kind to leave a comment
<dholbach> raphink: i added a smiley ;)
<dholbach> siretart: sure
<siretart> ok
<sistpoty> next sentence will be with future perfect *g*
<raphink> dholbach: ?
<sistpoty> siretart: looks good
<dholbach> sistpoty: didn't upload yet
<raphink> dholbach: ok my changes are wrong
<raphink> dholbach: I'll change again
<raphink> LOL
<sistpoty> raphink: ok, then I'll wait for your next upload ;)
<raphink> ok won't be long sistpoty :)
<raphink> sistpoty: if you want to review my package, I have about 10 waiting on REVU
<sistpoty> s/wait/work on revu mails/
<sistpoty> raphink: I'll really want to have revu1 send mails as top prio atm... but once this is done, I guess I'll test that feature
<raphink> ok
<raphink> haha
<raphink> dholbach: you'll have to advoated again
<raphink>  /usr/sbin doesn't look good actually ;)
<JohnnyMast> dholbach available to review the changes i made in my revu after you comemnted my ttb package ?
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: i'll gladly do so, which one is it?
<dholbach> hey de
<dholbach> hey desrt
<desrt> hello. :)
<JohnnyMast> let me link you
* dholbach hugs desrt ecstatically
<desrt> dholbach; do you know who handles ghc for ubuntu?
* desrt hugs back
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1182
<magnon> desrt!
<dholbach> desrt: did you read the ubuntu desktop news?!
<desrt> magnon; 'sup?
<desrt> dholbach; i did.
<magnon> desrt: I cut my hair
<desrt> magnon; uh oh.
<dholbach> desrt: ghc - sistpoty?
<desrt> magnon; got pics?
<JohnnyMast> it includes a patch now witch you talked about
<sistpoty> desrt: ghc as in ghc6?
<desrt> sistpoty; yes.
<sistpoty> desrt: I did some work on it, why?
<desrt> sistpoty; do you know why it builds with gcc-3.3?
<desrt> magnon; interesting cuty
<desrt> *cut
<desrt> why did you do it?
<sistpoty> desrt: it shouldn't... actually the one in dapper should build with gcc4
<raphink> sistpoty, dholbach : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1184
<desrt> weird.
<desrt> brb.
<sistpoty> desrt: do you mean haskell stuff built with ghc6 or buildlogs of ghc6?
<ajmitch> hey desrt
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: python-dev (>=2.2) is not needed in the depends - did you have a look at the package's dependencies, after it was built? ${python:Depends} will have been substituted by the appropriate python version
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: i doubt you need debian/control.save in the debian/ dir ;-)
<desrt> ajmitch; hello.
<JohnnyMast> lol yeah
<desrt> sistpoty; i mean if i look at the source package for ghc6 (in breezy, admittedly) it builds with gcc-3.3
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: why the patch to setup.py? is it wrong the way it is?
<desrt> magnon; so make with the info.  why did you do it? :)
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: i didnt see the obvious breakage
<magnon> desrt: six years since last it was short
<sistpoty> desrt: the breezy package didn't work with gcc-4 yet... only a quite unstable cvs-version did, and so decision was made to go with gcc-3.3
<desrt> ahh.  right
<desrt> 6.4.1 wasn't out yet
<desrt> i remember now :)
<magnon> feels kinda good
<desrt> hmm
<Tonio_> hi
<JohnnyMast> how do you mean breakage ?
<Tonio_> little question
<dholbach> you tried to fix something with the patch, no?
<dholbach> i mean, what was broken before?
<Tonio_> if you had to rename a file in the tarball, how would you proceed ?
<desrt> sistpoty; just building 641 here and was wondering if there was something i should know about :)
<Tonio_> a patch ?
<dholbach> raphink: now i understand, when i clicked on "debdiff" it just had the debhelper change, which was obviously fine with me :)
<magnon> anyway, beer awaits
<dholbach> Tonio_: use a debdiff
<magnon> bye!
<desrt> magnon; cheers
<JohnnyMast> dholbach yes
<Tonio_> dholbach: okay ;)
<JohnnyMast> on python-glade2
<dholbach> Tonio_: you could move it in debian/rules too
<raphink> dholbach: ;)
<dholbach> Tonio_: depends how long lasting this change will be
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: the patch is a bit longer, no?
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: on setup.py?
<dholbach> raphink: are you happy with the current version? i'll give it another quick glance now
<JohnnyMast> yes i cut out everything that was not needed
<raphink> yes I'm happy with it dholbach
<JohnnyMast> everything was in control
<raphink> dholbach: sorry for the sbin stuff
<JohnnyMast> so i did remove the checks
<sistpoty> desrt: have fun... will take quite some time to build it... (~6 hours on my slow system)
<desrt> sistpoty; i know.  i'm ghc upstream :p
<sistpoty> desrt: ah, good to know... then I can bug you with problems :)
<desrt> sistpoty; ya.  definitely.
<desrt> sistpoty; i only maintain powerpc/linux port but any questions with that are more than welcome
<Tonio_> dholbach: a few kB only ;)
<dholbach> Tonio_: how long it will last and everything :)
<dholbach> if the file differs with the next upstream release, you will have to work on the patch again :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: depends if the upstream will accept the change or not ;)
<Tonio_> in fact there is a .sh file in /usr/bin
<dholbach> yeah :)
<Tonio_> I've been told by siretart that it was crappy
<dholbach> ah
<dholbach> maybe move it
<JohnnyMast> dholbach enlighten me when you find more. i fixed those two things you stated
<Tonio_> and that causes a bug in lintian, who is unable to find the man
<JohnnyMast> ready for source build but if you find more
<Tonio_> so I'm patching the complete source and renaming the file, then package and send the patch to upstream authors
<Tonio_> and make a pray for the patch to be added to the next version ^^
<dholbach> raphink: an upload with orig.tar.gz please? :)
<raphink> how come there's no orig.tar.gz ?
<raphink> it's there in my folder though
<dholbach> debuild -S ... dput ? :)
<dholbach> instead of deuibld -S -sa?
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> learning a lot today ;)
<raphink> uploaded again
<raphink> waiting for it to appear
<LaserJock> raphink: did you use dput -f ?
<LaserJock> I always forget that
<raphink> I had not used -sa in debuild
<raphink> and I never use dput -f
<thierry> if I'm packaging a librairing named fox, should I call the package libfox or fox?
<raphink> what does it do?
<thierry> librairy*
<LaserJock> it forces dput to reupload
<raphink> LaserJock: I remove the .upload usually
<raphink> I guess -f is easier
<LaserJock> either way ;-)
<raphink> orig uploaded dholbach  :)
<dholbach> rock
<raphink> haha
<raphink> sorry for all this
<raphink> I hesitate asking you to review another package now ;)
<raphink> hehe
<Tonio_> raphink: have you been able to test briquolo ?
<raphink> hmm not yet Tonio_
<Tonio_> okay ;)
<raphink> I'll try it now
<Tonio_> thanks ;)
<thierry> and how can I find a package for this error : /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXext
<crimsun> libxext-dev
<tseng> sounds like libx11ext
<tseng> or that
<JohnnyMast> dholbach changes uploaded
<raphink> dholbach: fine to you?
<dholbach> both packages are not updated on the package yet, are they?
<raphink> they are dholbach
<raphink> mine is
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: i don't see the sense in most changes in the patch
<ajmitch> I feel like uploading a new f-spot
<JohnnyMast> dholbach, the problem was. The package depends on python-glade2
<ajmitch> but I haven't tested it at all
<JohnnyMast> so its nicely added to the package
<dholbach> yeah and that's fine, but you change a lot of other stuff
<JohnnyMast> yes correct
<raphink> dholbach: you don't see it uploaded ?
<dholbach> and it's better to change one obvious thing per patch :)
<dholbach> raphink: now i see it, thanks
<raphink> ok :)
<JohnnyMast> there was no need for the checks since the control manages that now and upstream is aware of getting rid of unused resources
<JohnnyMast> or un needed
<dholbach> i'm not talking about the checks
<dholbach> but about comments and ordering of imports
<dholbach> sorry to be so picky :)
<dholbach> the patch is not really clear about what it does
<JohnnyMast> well whats the problem in that ? since the patch is a recode of what was there
<dholbach> you name a patch like    debian/patches/01_change_glade_tests.patch
<dholbach> and then you do exactly this in the patch
<dholbach> so everybody has a full understanding of what goes on
<JohnnyMast> well dholbach the reason why it fails in debuild / pbuilder is also vague :/
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> let me do that
<JohnnyMast> more points ?
<dholbach> what happens, if upstream changes stuff in the next upstream release
<dholbach> do you want to have to change each of the tiny bits or just the relevant stuff each time? :)
<JohnnyMast> that doesnt change anything
<JohnnyMast> only maybe the deps
<JohnnyMast> and ofcource the code
<JohnnyMast> if you study the new setup.py it only installs nothing more
<JohnnyMast> and yes if there are big changes that have to be done to the setup as well. i have to patch it again
<dholbach> let somebody else review the patch, maybe i just don't get it
<siretart> sistpoty: I see you just commited r109, is this all and can I apply to /srv/revu1?
<dholbach> but changing comments and ordering of module imports are not necessary
<dholbach> keep the diff small
<sistpoty> erm.. not all yet siretart
<dholbach> apart from that it looks good
<sistpoty> -> query
<dholbach> raphink: i'll upload it :)
<raphink> thanks dholbach
<JohnnyMast> thanks, so you want me to change the name of the patch and also the content to litle changes ?
<dholbach> JohnnyMast: maybe you want to get other opinions on that, if you think you're right
<desrt> sistpoty; do you do issue tracking for ubuntu's ghc6?
<JohnnyMast> any reviewers want to review ttb on revu for a quick bit ?
<raphink> dholbach: coudl you have a look at knmap (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1171) or kyamo (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1105) too ?
<raphink> I can do that JohnnyMast
<sistpoty> desrt: what do you mean with issue tracking?
<dholbach> raphink: not tonight, sorry - please send me a mail and i'll have a look tomorrow
<desrt> sistpoty; bug reports
<raphink> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> cool
<sistpoty> desrt: once we get some... but currently I haven't heard of a bug report yet
* desrt has a bug to report and a patch to fix it too :p
<desrt> it's going into upstream and will be in 6.4.2... but it should go in ubuntu too if 6.4.2 isn't released (which it probably won't be)
<sistpoty> desrt: that's good... you could either throw it to malone, or what would be even cooler is to get this to debian BTS (since it's basically the debian/unstable package, with a one line change)
<desrt> cool.  i know igloo.  he's a cool guy :)
<desrt> igloo?  cool?  he he he
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> anybody wanting to add comments to revu... be aware that it might break :)
<raphink> sistpoty: what do you mean?
<raphink> it's reaching the maximum comments limit ?
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> JohnnyMast: can you give me the link pls?
<sistpoty> raphink: as in "first commit that enables mail on comments (which is totally untested)
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1189
<raphink> oh great sistpoty :)
<raphink> looking forward to this
<raphink> ooo
<raphink> python
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you have it mailing out yet?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: it should, I'll test now
<raphink> what do I do if the .changes of a package doesn't exist on the server ? ;)
<raphink> hehe
<sistpoty> well, it doesn't exactly mail yet. but gives funny messages
<raphink> on REVU I mean
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> it'll be hard to review
<sistpoty> raphink: the .changes are for uploading only
<raphink> sistpoty: I use it with dpkg-source -x
<sistpoty> raphink: a sourcepackage consists of dsc, which defines what other files belong to it
<raphink> unless I don't need it
<raphink> oh no I need diff actually
<raphink> but it's not there
<sistpoty> raphink: dpkg-source -x foobar.dsc will work as well
<raphink> no it's missing orig
<raphink> that's why
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> I'm a bit tired and used to getting the 3 first files in the list
<raphink> lol
<raphink> JohnnyMast: you miss the orig.tar.gz
<raphink> JohnnyMast: did you run debuild -S -sa  ?
<JohnnyMast> raphink ?? kidding ?
<raphink> nope I'm not kidding
<JohnnyMast> hold on
<JohnnyMast> holy cow
<JohnnyMast> no
* dholbach loves the holy cow :)
<raphink> lol
<JohnnyMast> dpkg -buildpackage -S -sa -k<key>
<raphink> mhm
<sistpoty> ok, revu comments are fixed
<JohnnyMast> raphink fix uploaded
<raphink> ok
<raphink> let's wait
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> yep
* JohnnyMast hands raphink a drink coffee while waiting 
<raphink> thank you JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> :)
<ajmitch> sistpoty:
<ajmitch> To: motu-reviewers@tauware.de
<ajmitch> From: www-data <www-data@tiber.tauware.de>
<ajmitch> please change the from address ;)
<siretart> ah. hm
<siretart> ajmitch: we are using /usr/bin/mail for sending emails
<ajmitch> siretart: yep
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I need to change some details first... seems like I got sql wrong
<ajmitch> and I don't know why you are doing so
<ajmitch> when python has some nice simple smtplib
<JohnnyMast> raphink http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1190
<raphink> yeah saw it
<sistpoty> ajmitch: because it's a nasty little hack ;)
<JohnnyMast> i kept on pressing F5 :p
<raphink> hehe
<ajmitch> I guessed that :)
<raphink> before I review it JohnnyMast you'll have to explain me why you switched from 0ubuntu1 to 1ubuntu1 ?
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> because i was stupid and uploaded 1ubuntu1
<JohnnyMast> grr
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<raphink> ok I'll review it this way
<JohnnyMast> no
<JohnnyMast> its no update
<raphink> please revert to 0ubuntu1  and I'll check the diff
<JohnnyMast> more a downgrade
<raphink> huh?
<JohnnyMast> 1ubuntu1  is verry old beside the versoning is wrong
<raphink> very old ??
<JohnnyMast> but i still had that changes file until ajmitch told to change to 0ubuntu1
<JohnnyMast> ^^
<raphink> you mean you just sent an old version of the package ? ;)
<raphink> oh ic
<JohnnyMast> yes
<raphink> well I'll wait again then
<JohnnyMast> sorry
<raphink> cd ttb && rm -rf ./*
<raphink> while{no new version of ttb on REVU} do wait; done
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> is it me or LP changed ?
<JohnnyMast> LP ?
<raphink> launchpad
<JohnnyMast> mine ?
<JohnnyMast> why ?
<JohnnyMast> ew misread
<raphink> no I said that LP has changed
<raphink> it doesn't look the same
<raphink> nm
<JohnnyMast> yeah its changed
<JohnnyMast> since a few days this is the new look
<JohnnyMast> the boxes you mean ?
<raphink> yes
<JohnnyMast> uhu
<JohnnyMast> i dont get what changed
<JohnnyMast> then new upload
<JohnnyMast> has also no orig.tar.gz
<raphink> huhu
<raphink> :)
<JohnnyMast> i dont see why
<JohnnyMast> rave@ubuntu:~/ttb-0.9.4/ttb-0.9.4$ sudo dpkg-buildpackage -S -as -k84A62F8D
<raphink> sa
<JohnnyMast> in the end
<JohnnyMast> dpkg-buildpackage: source only, diff-only upload (original source NOT included
<siretart> ajmitch: I think I got it now
<raphink> not as
<JohnnyMast> oooh
<raphink> -sa
<siretart> ajmitch: I added the -f option to the sendmail call
<ajmitch> siretart: great
<ajmitch> now I have to tweak procmail
<JohnnyMast> bingo !
<JohnnyMast> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload (original source is included)
<siretart> ajmitch: which email should I set?
<raphink> heh ;)
<siretart> I don't feel comfortable in putting my own email there ;)
<JohnnyMast> uploaded ...
<ajmitch> siretart: an alias on tiber, maybe revu@
<ajmitch> or just the motu-reviewers list
<siretart> ajmitch: I hope that won't confuse mailman, but I'll try
<ajmitch> it shouldn't
<sistpoty> raphink: just ignore my comment on konq-kim
<raphink> sistpoty: what do you mean?
<sistpoty> raphink: I just test-commented once more
<raphink> yes probably spam
<raphink> got it
<JohnnyMast> its complete now raphink
<raphink> too bad, I would ahve liked it if you had advocated though sistpoty ;)
<raphink> JohnnyMast: ok I'll have a look
<raphink> complete and up-to-date ? ;)
<sistpoty> raphink: I'll test advocate later ;)
<raphink> hehe ok
<siretart> ajmitch: http://tauware.de/pipermail/motu-reviewers/2005-December/000098.html this one looks even nicer :)
<ajmitch> siretart: looks good
<JohnnyMast> raphink yes
<raphink> sistpoty: when emails are sent, there could be nice messages when packages are approved
<raphink> like
<raphink> `Congratulations, your package was approved! Thanks for your contribution'
<raphink> that'll boost packagers ;)
<raphink> hehe
<JohnnyMast> yes it will, good idea raphink
<siretart> sistpoty: are you still editing scripts/Comments.py?
<sistpoty> hm... maybe for revu2 ;)
<siretart> or can I commit?
<sistpoty> siretart: no
<sistpoty> siretart: it looks good now... you can commit
<ajmitch> siretart: they appear to come from your address now, or did you change it since?
<siretart> ajmitch: http://tauware.de/pipermail/motu-reviewers/2005-December/000098.html
<sistpoty> hm... I could take a look at smtplib. if it's easy I'll change it
<siretart> that mail seems to come from the mailing list itself. the 2 former tests looked like they came from me
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> ok, I'll bbl
<siretart> ajmitch: if you want to hack, have a look at /src/revu1/scripts/Comments.py
<siretart> ;)
<ajmitch> good work on revu :)
<ajmitch> siretart: maybe later, I  have to head out now
<siretart> ajmitch: have fun!
<siretart> and good work to sistpoty!
<sistpoty> thx
<siretart> had actually to adapt the exim config to make www-data 'trusted'.. oh well
<sistpoty> siretart: smtplib is too easy...
<siretart> yeah?
<sistpoty> siretart: yes... I'll do a quick fix
<siretart> siretart: does it allow to set the -f flag to sendmail and specify the envelope from?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-21
<sistpoty> siretart: I guess it allows about everything, at least the from: address can be specified
<siretart> sistpoty: looks like: The caller may pass a list of ESMTP options (such as "8bitmime") to be used in "MAIL FROM" commands as mail_options.
<raphink> JohnnyMast: reviewed
<JohnnyMast> and ?
<JohnnyMast> ooh reading...
<JohnnyMast> raphink you think i should depend on debhelper >= 5.0 ?
<raphink> that's what is recommended now
<sistpoty> siretart: oh, you already fixed it... well then I guess I'll just leave it as it is now, and care for other changes
<raphink> I use >>5
<JohnnyMast> ok thanks
<JohnnyMast> yes me 2
<JohnnyMast> 5.0.7
<kos_tom> good night !
<raphink> oh well if you want ;)
<raphink> gn kos_tom
<siretart> ok
* siretart urgently needs some sleem
<siretart> sleep
<siretart> cu tomorrow then!
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<JohnnyMast> raphink can you vote as well ?
<raphink> what do you mean JohnnyMast ?
<JohnnyMast> advocate
<raphink> I cannot advocate if that's what wyou mean
<raphink> technically I can, but I am not allowed to, since I'm not a MOTU
<JohnnyMast> ok, but your help is very welcome my friend
<raphink> gn siretart
<raphink> :)
<JohnnyMast> it helps me improof the quality of the package
<raphink> sur
<raphink> sure
<raphink> and believe it or not, reviewing packages also teaches me a lot about packaging :)
<JohnnyMast> speaking of packing
<JohnnyMast> i should repack my own ftpd
<JohnnyMast> the current packing is a laugh
<JohnnyMast> on view of even me would make me gigle
<JohnnyMast> and enum the errors
<raphink> really?
<JohnnyMast> yeah its all hard coded
<JohnnyMast> let me link you
<raphink> well the thing is that it must be a merge from debian I guess
<raphink> hi Kyral
<JohnnyMast> raphink http://sourceforge.net/projects/eftd
<raphink> oh this is a package you found there and that is not included in ubuntu yet?
<JohnnyMast> this is it ... http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/eftd/extreme/debian/
<JohnnyMast> no
<JohnnyMast> its what icoded
<JohnnyMast> *coded
<raphink> oh well then
<raphink> you can package it
<JohnnyMast> and NOT ready for any os
<raphink> why?
<JohnnyMast> well the core is stable
<JohnnyMast> but it has litle bugs
<raphink> ok
<JohnnyMast> when i want it in ubuntu/debian what ever i make sure its stable
<raphink> it's not in debian either
<JohnnyMast> our team has some other software (wich im also planning to pack for ubuntu) in fedora and gentoo
<raphink> yes, thats right :)
<Kyral> Team?
<Kyral> who
<raphink> what team?
<JohnnyMast> rosiello
<JohnnyMast> www.rosiello.org
<JohnnyMast> when you see rave on that site
<JohnnyMast> its me
<raphink> ooo
<JohnnyMast> and rosiello.net == my own domain
<raphink> that's not W3C-compliant at all ;)
<JohnnyMast> pfft
<Kyral> Bah!
<JohnnyMast> i have something on my TODO that will rock ubuntu`s CMS`es
<raphink> well heh
<Kyral> Screw W3C compliance :D
<raphink> there are bugs with the page on konqueror
<JohnnyMast> 100% w3 and good for comunity`s
<JohnnyMast> i used to host a comunity on that software
<raphink> what is that JohnnyMast ?
<Nafallo> Kyral: now I will forever associate you with IE :-P.
<JohnnyMast> its edge
<Kyral> Nafallo: hell no!
<Kyral> Noo!!
<JohnnyMast> the cms that neworder.box.sk uses
<Kyral> Thats a fate worse than death! Or no Internet!
<raphink> Nafallo: haha
<Nafallo> hehe
<Kyral> I'll be good! I promise!
<raphink> you wanted it, you got it ;)
<JohnnyMast> Nafallo thats an insult in a room of unix geeks
<Nafallo> JohnnyMast: yea, I know :-)
<JohnnyMast> :p
<Nafallo> but that comment deserved it ;-)
<Kyral> I Darn You To Heck! ;P
<Nafallo> my girlfriend almost got called windows by me yesterday ;-)
<Kyral> OUCH
<Nafallo> no sex in some weeks :-/
<Kyral> Them's fighting words ;P
<Kyral> What Windows doesn't put out either?
<Kyral> ;P
<JohnnyMast> Nafallo you need to study this word "libsex"
<JohnnyMast> keeps ur mind of of windows
<Kyral> holy cow there is actually a libsexy1 package
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> thats the linux version of i love you
<JohnnyMast> the love bug :p
<Nafallo> :-)
<Nafallo> baah, she'll get over it :-P
<Nafallo> my parents bought us a new bed in early xmas present today so... ;-)
<JohnnyMast> guys
<JohnnyMast> question
<JohnnyMast> are you supposed to drink maliboo mixed ?
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Nafallo: man mount? ;P
<JohnnyMast> because im drinking some heavy stuff here
<Nafallo> Kyral: baah. just because I lost virginity after starting to use linux :-P
<dholbach> good night everybody
<Nafallo> dholbach: gnight mate, see you tomorrow :-).
<JohnnyMast> dholbach gn
<dholbach> see you... *yawn*
<JohnnyMast> dholbach thanks for ur review btw !
<Kyral> Nafallo: roflmao
<JohnnyMast> great job
<dholbach> de rien
<JohnnyMast> de rien ?
<dholbach> "anytime"
<dholbach> "you're welcome"
<JohnnyMast> ooh ok
<JohnnyMast> sleep well
<dholbach> c'est franais :)
<dholbach> you too... later :)
<JohnnyMast> ik ben nederlands
<JohnnyMast> now that we are talking about nationality`s
<raphink> gn dholbach
<Nafallo> JohnnyMast: dholbach is german :-).
<Nafallo> he just talks to much to seb128 :-P
<raphink> hehe
<JohnnyMast> ur breaking my pride here
<JohnnyMast> :/
<raphink> je bin van de niederlanden JohnnyMast ?
<JohnnyMast> raphink thats dholbach language
<JohnnyMast> gerrman
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> no
<JohnnyMast> yes
<raphink> in german it would be
<raphink> du bist von etc...
<raphink> je ben van ... is dutch
<JohnnyMast> ich bin her flick
<raphink> or so I think
<JohnnyMast> raphink your correct sentence in dutch was
<JohnnyMast> je komt uit nederland JohnnyMast ?
<raphink> ok
<Nafallo> ehm
<raphink> I still have to learn ;)
<raphink> that was somethign in between ;)
<raphink> hehe
<dholbach> *wave* :)
<raphink> Nafallo: and where are you from?
<raphink> tsch
<Nafallo> raphink: Sweden :-)
<raphink> zu spt
<JohnnyMast> raphink we dont use unlouds
<raphink> ah :)
<JohnnyMast> its just plain abc for holland
<raphink> yes JohnnyMast I know that
<Nafallo> anyone else got an unsubscribe mail to universe-bugs?
<JohnnyMast> we are the easy ppl
<JohnnyMast> Nafallo yep
<JohnnyMast> me as well
<raphink> no Nafallo, inte jag
<JohnnyMast> swedish !
<JohnnyMast> ick
<raphink> well `no' is not swedish I think
<JohnnyMast> jag jag jag
<raphink> eh don't make fun :p
<Nafallo> it's nej on swedish :-)
<Nafallo> JohnnyMast: you you you ;-)
<raphink> You have been unsubscribed from the Motu-reviewers mailing list
<raphink> :(
<raphink> Nafallo: no it's `je je je'
<Nafallo> raphink: yea. seems universe-bugs is unsubscribed from there then ;-)
<raphink> met u u u
<raphink> Nafallo: yes, according to what we discussed lately on #ubuntu-meeting
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> ooo
<Nafallo> oh
<Nafallo> I've must have missed that.
<raphink> I had no idea asking for approval on the LP group would sent a bug
<raphink> lol
<raphink> Nafallo: yeah I guess ;)
<raphink> but \sh sent reports to the motu list
<JohnnyMast> rapthink im en exploatren med l , vem frena jag?
<raphink> yeah yeah, sure
<JohnnyMast> swedish
<raphink> heel goed, JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> w0w
<raphink> bara bra
<JohnnyMast> very good for you as well
<raphink> :p
<JohnnyMast> im a developer with beer, who joins me ?
<raphink> lol
<Nafallo> nope, not swedish :-P
<raphink> yep ;)
* sistpoty is just enjoying a leichtes weizen (wheat bear with reduced alcohol)
<JohnnyMast> acording to http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran?url=http%3A%2F%2F&type=text&text=im+a+developer+with+beer%2C+who+joins+me+%3F&from=eng&to=swe it is
<raphink> swenglish
<raphink> for the most
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> swengilish
<raphink> JohnnyMast: since when do machines decide what swedish is ?
<raphink> where are you from sistpoty ?
<raphink> deutschland auch?
<sistpoty> raphink: germany/near nuremberg
<sistpoty> genau
<raphink> ach gut :)
<JohnnyMast> raphink since a machine rasied me
<JohnnyMast> i trust them
<raphink> vielen Deutschen hier
<JohnnyMast> nein
<raphink> llol
<JohnnyMast> ich unter Moritz
<raphink> wat zagst u ?
<JohnnyMast> (his jabber name)
<raphink> how terrible is this?
<raphink> lol
<JohnnyMast> its okey :)
<JohnnyMast> du ist besser then ich
<Nafallo> anyway, gnight guys
<JohnnyMast> see ^^^ thats wrong already
<raphink> ik wiess dat niet
<raphink> night Nafallo_away
<JohnnyMast> gnNafallo
<JohnnyMast> i still dont know if you have to mix maliboo
<raphink> lol
<raphink> I'd like to learn dutch but there's no dutch channel on tv
<JohnnyMast> im still drinking it pure
<raphink> hehe
<JohnnyMast> raphink when you learn dutch ttb is a package for you
<JohnnyMast> it shows whats on tonight on tv
<raphink> oh ok
<JohnnyMast> and the news and stocks etc ...
<raphink> well I know dutch tv stream son the internet
<raphink> but I prefer to watch the real tv
<JohnnyMast> yeah me to
<JohnnyMast> BUT
<JohnnyMast> in a few days
<JohnnyMast> mr /me boards a airplain
<JohnnyMast> to go british and maybe 2600`ish
<raphink> echt?
<JohnnyMast> yes
<JohnnyMast> im heading to the UK baby
<JohnnyMast> and ship some ubuntu cd`s
<raphink> goed :)
<raphink> what for?
<raphink> haha
<JohnnyMast> to my PRO freebsd girl
<raphink> yes that's a must
<JohnnyMast> see i have a unix chick
<JohnnyMast> but
<McFergus> freebsdgirl.com ? :P
<JohnnyMast> :( freebsd
<raphink> McFergus: lol
<JohnnyMast> im gonna make her horney all over my desktop
<raphink> huh that even exists !!
<JohnnyMast> and further upstairs
<McFergus> yap..
<JohnnyMast> is that the promo site
<McFergus> and she's even hot
<JohnnyMast> with the pictures ??
<JohnnyMast> as the linux chicks ?
<JohnnyMast> speaking of funny domains
<JohnnyMast> wich domain did you think i registered for my ircd ?
* ajmitch returns
<Kyral> hey ajmitch
<JohnnyMast> i registered anircd.com
<JohnnyMast> so is called the project -.com
<McFergus> so?
<ajmitch> raphink: debhelper can't be in Build-Depends-Indep for good reasons
<JohnnyMast> its a fun domain realy
<raphink> ajmitch: why?
<raphink> ajmitch: but then that gives a lintian warning on build-depends without arch
<ajmitch> raphink: because items in the clean target (dh_clean) are called before the indep b-d
<ajmitch> are fulfulled
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> so?
<ajmitch> so it must be in Build-Depends
<JohnnyMast> good i was still awake to read this
<JohnnyMast> i changed it back with all do respectraphink
<JohnnyMast> **i changed it back with all do respect raphink
<raphink> sure JohnnyMast
<raphink> :)
<raphink> I'm learning everyday :)
<raphink> well every hour even
<JohnnyMast> raphink same here
<JohnnyMast> and i can gues you can even recall me entering here
<JohnnyMast> you learn quiite quick here
<ajmitch> raphink: I can dig up the threads on debian-devel about it :)
<ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/12/msg01806.html
<raphink> that's ok ajmitch
<ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/12/msg01805.html
<raphink> so that means that when we use cdbs and debhelper with _all_ packages
<raphink> we need to have both depends and depends-indep ?
<ajmitch> I think so
<ajmitch> before we go around changing things I'd better check this out
<ajmitch> to make sure I don't give people bad info ;)
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> well that would mean I'd have to modify some of my packages aswell
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> I think that functionally it's not a problem, as the buildds work without it :)
<ajmitch> otherwise we'd see large archive breakage
<raphink> yep
<raphink> what are the bugs he's talking about then?
<ajmitch> but policy states that Build-Depends for clean target
<ajmitch> Build-Depends-Indep doesn't cover the clean target
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=216747
<raphink> oh
<raphink> that's _if_ you're using debhelper in your clean target
<raphink> which is not always the case
<raphink> most of the time, we just use rm in the clean target
<raphink> not dh_stuff
<ajmitch> um
<ajmitch> we often use dh_clean
<ajmitch> it is very common to use it
<raphink> hmm right
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> and does cdbs use it too?
<ajmitch> basically *anything* in the clean: target should be in Build-Depends
<ajmitch> yes
<raphink> or does cdbs not use debhelper?
<JohnnyMast> cdbs uhu
<JohnnyMast> t has a debhelper.ml somthing like it
<JohnnyMast> (me mixes in the convo sorry)
<raphink> debhelper.mk
<ajmitch> also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=216492
<raphink> which I guess uses dh_clean in clean::
<ajmitch> it does
<ajmitch> cdbs should be in Build-Depends as well, iirc
<raphink> and we have to ignore lintian output on this, then
<ajmitch> which is why I want to get it clarified
<ajmitch> whether I ignore lintian or not :)
<raphink> and seems lintian has to be ignored on this matter
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=339750
<ajmitch> same for 321135
<raphink> ic
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so for example, in konq-kim, I have
<ajmitch> I can say that packages work & build fine now with just Build-Depends-Indep
<raphink> Build-Depends-Indep: debhelper (>> 5), cdbs, docbook2x
<ajmitch> it's just not technically 'correct'
<raphink> in that case
<raphink> debhelper and cdbs should go to build-depends
<raphink> and docbook2x stay in -Indep
<ajmitch> raphink: afaict, yes :)
<raphink> right?
<ajmitch> I think so
<raphink> shall I add an override file, too?
* ajmitch shrugs
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> ok
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> I don't like override files
<raphink> ;)
<ajmitch> neither do I, really
<raphink> it's like hiding informative things
<raphink> if lintian output have to be ignored, then there's no reason to hide them
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1188
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> ajmitch: btw, would you have some time to review one or two packages?
<raphink> not sure if I asked already :s
<ajmitch> not really, sorry
<raphink> ok
<raphink> np :)
<sistpoty> ok, I guess I'll break revu once again, so please don't upload packages atm
<ajmitch> btw, when reviewing packages
<ajmitch> having a dh_make template full of # dh_... might be grounds for rejection
<raphink> good to know
<raphink> so we should have people remove their # dh_ from rules ?
<ajmitch> they will be rejected in debian, so we can have similar rules here
<ajmitch> raphink: yes please
<raphink> sure
<raphink> :)
<raphink> is it ok to keep _useful_ comments in rules though?
<ajmitch> I don't like people uploading stuff when they have no idea what the various dh_* programs are
<ajmitch> of course!
<raphink> like comments explaining the reason of a line?
<raphink> :)
<raphink> just to be sure :)
<ajmitch> this is just for the dh_make boilerplate
<raphink> cause I like to comment my scripts
<raphink> yes
<ajmitch> eg, when you can see that they haven't changed much at all
<raphink> just `comments by default made by the auto script' 
<raphink> yes I understand
<ajmitch> just use your judgement on it ;)
<raphink> sure
<raphink> I'll keep that in mind :)
<ajmitch> these should be put on ReviewingTips or PackagingTips
<ajmitch> & the mailing list
<raphink> I was willing to update the ReviewingTips
<raphink> just today
<raphink> also with the `debuild && debuild -S' test
<ajmitch> we still expect high standards in universe
<raphink> checking diff for files not cleaned while building deb
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> definitely
<raphink> and other stuff
<raphink> I wanted to list all the stuff to check on a package
<sistpoty> grml... revu1... grml... package vanished... grml
<raphink> :)
<raphink> sistpoty: oops
<sistpoty> well, it was only my test package, but it vanished nontheless ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: breakign things again?
<sistpoty> sure ajmitch
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> raphink: well #dh_... might not be rejection, but at least strong comments ;)
<raphink> ok
<ajmitch> we'll take it to the list for discussion
<raphink> well it's better to avoid them
<ajmitch> agree on some reviewing principles
<raphink> ajmitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewingTips
<raphink> just added the build test to it
<ajmitch> ok
<raphink> hmm not very clean
<raphink> I'll modify it
<ajmitch> warn people to check the rules & makefile before doing that
<ajmitch> since some packages install into /usr during build
<ajmitch> which is really quite bad
<ajmitch> this ought to be automated in pbuilder hooks
<raphink> mhm
<ajmitch> there's a lot that can go wrong to mess up a reviewer's system :)
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> we get so many dependencies installed, too
<raphink> and just build weird stuff
<freeflying> raphink: hi
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> hi freeflying
<sistpoty> yay... mail on package upload to revu works
<raphink> great :D
<raphink> good work sistpoty :)
<raphink> you rock ;)
<sistpoty> thx :)
<raphink> that'll be a great help
<sistpoty> now I'm afk for a smoke, and then I guess I'll review a package and test advocating ;)
<raphink> which one ?
<raphink> ;)
<sistpoty> not decided yet ;)
<raphink> shall I suggest you one of mine?
<raphink> ;)
<sistpoty> go ahead...
* sistpoty will be back in 5 mins
<raphink> I'd suggest http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1171 :)
<sistpoty> raphink: knmap looks very good :)
<raphink> thanks :)
<raphink> you can advocate it if you like it ;)
<raphink> hehe
<sistpoty> check mail ;)
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> no mail :(
<sistpoty> hm... are you subscribed to motu-reviewers?
<raphink> nope
<raphink> coudln't find where
<raphink> if you give me the address I will
<sistpoty> http://tauware.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/motu-reviewers
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> I'll will
<raphink> later ;)
<raphink> IO'm playing now
<raphink> ;)
<sistpoty> hf
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> wesnoth :)
<raphink> 2vs2
<sistpoty> ah
<sistpoty> gl
<raphink> thanks
<sistpoty> raphink: nmap uploaded
<sistpoty> knmap even
<raphink> ty
<raphink> :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> it's a nice app
<minghua> Riddell: ping
<LaserJock> crap, my linux box is going to be replaced with an iMac >:(
<minghua> raphink: just FYI, a new hex4ht is in debian incoming right now, version 20051214-1
<raphink> good :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why?
<LaserJock> my boss just told me
<minghua> does ubuntu NEW queue has a web interface?
<LaserJock> I was using my personal machine for work
<LaserJock> but now I get a new iMac
<Kyral> ....put Ubuntu on it
<LaserJock> and I don't think I get to use linux on it
<LaserJock> I'll install it anyway
* sistpoty is off to bed
<Kyral> bingo
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<LaserJock> cya sistpoty
<minghua> night, sistpoty
<Kyral> Tell him its free and will increase your productivity
<LaserJock> I guess I can take my Ubuntu box home and ssh in to do packaging, etc.
<ajmitch> minghua: no, the NEW queu for ubuntu is generally short, unlike debian
<minghua> what I'm looking for is the skim package
<minghua> it's labelled as uploaded in REVU
<minghua> but I actually have some comments on it
<minghua> I wrote a mail to the maintainer and Riddell, but got no replys
<minghua> today suddenly it's uploaded
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> strange
<ajmitch> who uploaded it?
<minghua> siretart, it seems
* ajmitch doesn't see it on revu
<minghua> but Riddell gave a advocate
<minghua> ajmitch: the bottom, archived bunch
<ajmitch> ok
<Kyral> hey ajmitch what did you want me to do about those build warnings in EasyChem?
<minghua> my biggest concern is that the orig.tar.gz doesn't match with the (proposed) debian one, not even the .orig.tar
<ajmitch> Kyral: fix them all ;)
<ajmitch> Kyral: well do what you want
<Kyral> ajmitch: *hand to face*
<Kyral> ajmitch: You assume I know how and what those errors even MEAN
<ajmitch> hoepfully if you're packaging it you know the source ;)
<Kyral> Not usually lol. If it fails to build then I look at the source :P
<ajmitch> these warnings wouldn't cause a build failure on i386
<ajmitch> maybe a segfault when you run the program, on amd64
<ajmitch> *maybe*
<Kyral> yah all I saw the "String length is too big" or something, how the heck am I supposed to handle that? I didn't even know strings had a size limit
<ajmitch> no, the other ones
<ajmitch> the pointer warnings
<Kyral> ...I didn't even see those
<ajmitch> generally indicates less-than-optimal casting
<Kyral> ah
* Kyral pulls out his C++ reference
* bmonty doesn't understand my programmers don't make their code compile without warnings
<Kyral> I try to get mine to compile without warnings
<ajmitch> bmonty: because older compilers didn't throw those warnings
<Kyral> barring the pain in the ass "no final newline" thing
<bmonty> ajmitch: I've seen lots of packages that throw warnings regardless of the compiler version
<jamessan> Kyral: any proper editor will make sure that newline exists
<bmonty> BTW, latest make package solves the problem with cbds
<crimsun> yeah, adam reverted that several days ago
<Kyral> Okay suddenly REVU won't load for me
<bmonty> works for me
<Kyral> I think my Torrents are going too fast...
<LaserJock> is there much needed in the way of packaging for PPC? will I be able to do the same packaging?
<ajmitch> crimsun: newer make was synced after that
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it should be identical
<ajmitch> LaserJock: since all the packages we build are for ppc & amd64 as well
<LaserJock> ajmitch: really, that would be a relief, I've never used a mac before.
<Kyral> lol
<LaserJock> I am starting to freak out ;-)
* minghua doesn't think ubuntu is a better choice for an iMac than OS X Tiger though ;-)
<hub> minghua: why>
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, but I still want to help out and be a MOTU some day
<hub> LaserJock: you can make package on PPC
<hub> no problem
<hub> since you make the source package
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<LaserJock> maybe I can calm down a bit. My universe might not be collapsing
<ajmitch> you wouldn't really be able to tell it was a mac
<ajmitch> except for the crappy mouse :)
<LaserJock> lol
<minghua> hub: mostly because of the multimedia stuff, in my experience
<minghua> hub: my experience with OS X is very good, it usually "just works" as long as no Chinese is involved
<LaserJock> well, I think I might have to stay with OSX and vnc or ssh to home or something
<LaserJock> no Chinese here
<imnes> I downloaded a packages source, made some modifications, built and installed it.  Now the update-manager always shows the package needing to be updated (even though both my biuld and the original ubuntu build show the same version number)
<imnes> How can I fix it?
<LaserJock> change the version number
<hub> minghua: it is not free
<LaserJock> hub: well I don't have to pay for it so ...
<hub> LaserJock: free as in speech
<hub> show me the source
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> course if it all works I don't care so much because I will still be working on Ubuntu too
<LaserJock> the thing that gets me is that my boss was the one that got me going on linux in the first place
<minghua> hub: can't argue with that :-)  I am a student in science major though, so freeness isn't really that important to me
<minghua> hub: mathematica, just as an example
<Kyral> Freedom is good
<hub> minghua: well it is illegal to copy software if the license does not allow
<Kyral> but I'm not afraid to shatter an unjust license :D
<hub> minghua: and MacOS X license does not
<minghua> hub: my OS X is perfectly legal
<LaserJock> minghua: LabView, there's another good one from the experimentalists world
<hub> minghua: so you paid it
<hub> minghua: with the machine
<hub> and the upgrade you'll have to pay it too
<LaserJock> yep
<minghua> hub: yes, that's why i say "not a better choice for iMac", as you already paid for OS X
<Kyral> You are locked into paying
<minghua> hub: yes, that's the reason I'm still using Panther.  and I understand your pain (I read your blog about porting abiword to OS X)
<minghua> hub: btw thank you for abiword
<Kyral> hub ported Abiword to OSX?
<hub> Kyral: yep. sometime agi
<hub> ago
<Kyral> Rock on hub :D
<Kyral> Now I can tell my friends who use OSX to not use MS Office and use Abiword :D
<hub> not yet
<hub> it has some serious issues
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> oh well
<desrt> Kyral; much better... give them an ubuntu/ppc cd
<Kyral> Rock on anyway :D
<LaserJock> yeah, that is the other reason my boss likes OSX, there as so many people using Office that it is much easier to give in than fight it
<Kyral> desrt: My OSX friends have the superiority complex that seems to infect some OS X users
<desrt> Kyral; and i have the one that infects ubuntu users :)
<LaserJock> lol
<Kyral> desrt: lol
<desrt> explain to them that they can switch without losing their complex :)
<minghua> LaserJock: go buy a copy of crossover office? ;-)
<LaserJock> heck no
<Kyral> no no no
<Kyral> OpenOffice!
<LaserJock> but the iMac will have Office on it so...
<LaserJock> I guess on the bright side, I will get to use the cool genie effect thingy (expose or something)
<hub> minghua: crossover does not work on PPC
<desrt> hub; qemu
<hub> desrt: lol
<minghua> hub: I know.  I didn't mean that.  I meant "if you want to be compatible with all other office people, what about using linux and crossover instead of buying os x?"
<desrt> oh man i hate it when ubuntu-desktop is uninstallable
<LaserJock> I am sooo glad I recently got DSL at home, at least I should be able to ssh to my home computer
<Kyral> I <3 Broadband
<minghua> especially you need to pay extra for ms office on OS X (at least when I bought my iBook)
<hub> minghua: OpenOffice is actually a better bet... and AbiWord
<LaserJock> we have a university site license
<Kyral> I actually have to customize the OpenAFS Client package for the COSI
<minghua> hub: you mean for writing your own documents, or reading others' .doc?
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta get home. I guess I feel a little better about this whole iMac thing
<LaserJock> cya all
<hub> minghua: both
<Kyral> cya LJ
<minghua> while I more or less agree on the former, the latter is definitely not the case
<LaserJock> to think I was going to have him get me a AMD64. darn!
<Kyral> I can use debian/postinst to do all modifications to config files right?
<crimsun> would someone running Dapper with dev tools installed give me the output from: pkg-config "--atleast-version=2.4.0" "gtk+-2.0" ; echo $?
<crimsun> (please have libgtk2.0-dev installed)
<crimsun> ok, resolved it. Thanks.
<crimsun> Apparently there's a missing dependency on libxdmcp-dev.
<hub> crimsun: I got that too when building
<hub> crimsun: pkg-config require it
<hub> and it is not there
<hub> so there is a missing dependency
<crimsun> hub: yeah, I see a related bug on libgtk2.0-dev: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=326199
<crimsun> what the.
<crimsun> Rejected: md5sum for
<crimsun> +/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/ftp/pool/universe/x/xfmedia/xfmedia_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> +doesn't match xfmedia_0.9.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<crimsun> there's no reference to the orig.tar.gz in the dsc
<crimsun> something's amiss in the cogs, because "/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/ftp/" makes no sense
<raphink> pfiew
<raphink> 4:20AM
<raphink> good time to go to bed after a wesnoth game of more than 2 hours
<crimsun> wesnoth in dapper? :)
<raphink> yes
<raphink> :)
<crimsun> cool
<jamessan> crimsun: why wouldn't the orig be referenced in the dsc?
<raphink> 2vs2 on the official servers
<raphink> that was a nice game
<raphink> very nice and long game
<crimsun> jamessan: because I didn't pass -sa to dpkg-genchanges?
<raphink> and no one knew who was gonna win
<raphink> till about the 10 minutes before the end
<raphink> :)
<jamessan> crimsun: just because you're not including the orig in the upload doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned in the dsc.
<crimsun> this error just makes no sense
<jamessan> that happened to me once before.  I just grabbed a new orig.tar.gz and rebuilt the package.  never did figure out what happened to alter the md5sum
<raphink> http://www.kde-look.org/
<raphink> :'(
<raphink> and before it starts jokes on KDE : http://www.kde-look.org/
<raphink> http://www.gnome-look.org/
<raphink> :'(
<raphink> I'm heading to bed
<raphink> good night
<crimsun> 'night
<raphink> :)
<dholbach> good morning motus
<ajmitch> morning :)
* ajmitch must have some programs being real memory hogs
<Treenaks> ajmitch: nvidia-glx?
<Treenaks> ajmitch: evolution?
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> well nvidia-glx is here
<ajmitch> but it's an older one that doesn't tend to leak all voer
<ajmitch> various things like e-d-s, apache, mysql, etc
<ajmitch> they all add up
<Treenaks> they do?!
<Treenaks> ;)
<ajmitch> 271 processes
<Treenaks> 142 here, and 2GB of RAM, and amd64
<ajmitch> I closed muine earlier, it was up > 150MB
<ajmitch> only 1GB RAM
<ajmitch> I've got both apache & apache2 running, for various reasons
<ajmitch> as well as zope
<lifeless> azeem: package some plugins!
<siretart> morning
<ajmitch> morning siretart
<siretart> ajmitch: did I do something wrong with skim?
<ajmitch> not that I know of
<siretart> there is a hilight in my backlog..
<siretart> ok
<ajmitch> you'd have to ask minghua
<siretart> Yes, I uploaded it, since I considered it fine for universe
<ajmitch> he said he still had some questions
<ajmitch> yay, another sync
<siretart> ajmitch: did you read my rants on -project?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> I haven't been reading that list
<siretart> svenl said I was too rude..
<siretart> what should I think now of him? ;)
<ajmitch> were they good rants?
<siretart> it was more of a misunderstanding
<siretart> he was implying that we motus were instructed NOT to use debbugs
<ajmitch> oh right
<siretart> for contributing back patches
<ajmitch> well it's a debian list
<ajmitch> some amount of rudeness is expected ;)
<siretart> yes, i've been watching debian lists for a while now
<ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/12/msg00122.html <-- that one about 'official policy not to use the BTS'?
<ajmitch> crackful
<ajmitch> I think it's about attaching a patch rather than linking it
<siretart> which seems to piss a lot of DDs of, having to use an ubuntu apache rather than having the patches in their inbox
<ajmitch> yeah
<siretart> ajmitch: excatly. my rants began in that subthread
<ajmitch> I'm reading the discussion on the utnubu list as well
<ajmitch> and I'm reading your -project rants :)
<ajmitch> I think there's some misunderstanding on both sides here
<siretart> right, it got X-posted to utnubu
<siretart> this emailing of comments by revu seem really handy
<ajmitch> certainly
<ajmitch> I think package subscriptions will be handy for revu2 (and part of launchpad eventually :) )
<siretart> that would be revu3 ;)
<siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ipodslave-0512160300/ipodslave-0.7.1/debian/ipodslave-dev.install
<siretart> me is confused about the debian/tmp/usr/lib/lib*.so
<siretart> why should an .so go to a -dev package?
<ajmitch> policy ;)
<ajmitch> well it's because the .so is only used for linking
<ajmitch> since it has no version info in the name
<siretart> oh.
<ajmitch> see library packaging guide for gory details
<siretart> I remeber vaguely
<ajmitch> executables always look for .so.X at runtime
<ajmitch> the .so is just a symlink
<azeem> lifeless: dude, I tried to sync my phone with multisync-0.8x again last night
<azeem> lifeless: I feel the pain, so I'll get to packaging RSN :)
<azeem> lifeless: can you put up the opensync source package you uploaded to NEW somewhere?
* ajmitch still has to buy a replacement phone to do some syncing
<ajmitch> hi minghua
<minghua> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> siretart was wondering if he'd done something wrong with skim? :)
<minghua> I'm not supposed to be here...  I woke up in the midnight because I was too hungry
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> we won't tell
<minghua> ajmitch: no, not really, the package was generally fine
* ajmitch knocks a couple of merge bugs off the list
<minghua> ajmitch: what really surprised me is Riddell advocating it without even an answer to my mail
<ajmitch> I've been so slack with merges lately
<siretart> minghua: yeah, freeflying asked me in an email to review and advocate it. he waited so long, so I had another look
<minghua> hi siretart, you are here!
<siretart> minghua: yes, I woke eventually up :)
<minghua> siretart: I can send you the mail I sent to freeflying and Riddell about the comments on skim, want it?
<ajmitch> hm, pycaml looks syncable
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> maybe not, build-deps might need changed ;)
<siretart> minghua: well, why not
<asbin> hi all
<minghua> siretart: siretart@ubuntu.com?
<ajmitch> hi asbin
<siretart> hello asbin
<siretart> minghua: right
<siretart> hm.
<siretart> why is my sound broken?
<asbin> siretart: I've just uploaded ushare package on revu ;)
<minghua> siretart: mail bounced
<siretart> asbin: cool
* minghua is happy to receive the mail from katie, his sponsor just uploaded his package :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: great!
<minghua> good news in a hungry and cold night
* ajmitch always loves getting mail from katie, unless she rejects me 
<ajmitch> siretart: this mail for revu is great! :)
<ajmitch> now I can see new uploads
<ajmitch> instead of looking at a very very long list
<siretart> yes
<siretart> and you get every upload
<siretart> not just new ones. but I think they are marked
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> asbin: ushare has debian/ in the upstream tarball?
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> broken pbuilder again
<ajmitch> Fetched 5697kB in 1m19s (71.8kB/s)
<ajmitch> Failed to fetch http://10.18.1.1:9999/ubuntu/dists/dapper/multiverse/source/Sources.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
<ajmitch> this happens too often
<ajmitch> asbin: I'd suggest you don't have the "(asbin ;-] )" bit in debian/control
<ajmitch> it may even confuse some programs
<ajmitch> admittedly there are a lot of packages that do have Name (comment) <email>
* StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> I wish I was motivated.
<StevenK> I could be packaging PoCo::Ident, or merging wnn6-sdk for Dapper.
<ajmitch> I think I'll choose another option, and go & sleep
<ajmitch> night all
<minghua> ajmitch: good night
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch!
<Tonio_> hi guys
<Tonio_> what would do with that lintian error ?
<Tonio_> W: kompile: extended-description-line-too-long
<Tonio_> problem is due to that line :
<Tonio_> Homepage: http://www.brainspace.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=24
<Tonio_> I can't splut it or remove the line so........
<Tonio_> s/splut/split
<minghua> Tonio_: how many spaces do you have before that line?
<minghua> Tonio_: in any case run lintian with -i option will give you a better idea
<Tonio_> minghua: the problem is just that the url is to long....
<Tonio_> no need to investigate... the problem is what to do in that case ?
<Tonio_> ignoring lintian's error ?
<Tonio_> removing the homepage from debian/control ?
<minghua> Tonio_: yes I can see that, I just wonder if having two spaces before the line (which makes it verbose, without linebreaks) would help
<minghua> or making it not verbose would help (but that seems against the policy)
<Tonio_> yep
<Tonio_> I can hack lintian on that point
<Tonio_> but that's not clean at all....
<Tonio_> I will ask to Riddell what he would do ;)
<Tonio_> he revued to know because of that, so I assume he has a solution ;)
<ogra> Tonio_, dont put the url in the description
<ogra> it should already be in copyright anyway
<Tonio_> ?
<Tonio_> ogra: I would agree, but Ipersonnally received a few NO advocates because of that...
<Tonio_> it is not against the policy, but onsidered as required by MOTUS...
<Tonio_> well, if a reviewer can confirm he would put a YES in that case, I'll do it ;)
<ogra> i dont understand ? who of MOTU requests you to put urls in the description ?
<ogra> in any case a to long description line violates the policy ...
<ogra> thats why lintian complains ...
<ogra> an delmo wouldnt approve it for the archive ...
<Tonio_> ogra, I'll do it and eventually explain the reason it is not there in the changelog
<ogra> no need to
<ogra> there is no need to put urls in te description
<ogra> and since that url should be in the copyright file anyway, all is fine
<Tonio_> ogra: in theory but on revu, a package who doesn't have homepage in control gets a no from most of the MOTUS....
<Tonio_> want to see an example ?
<ogra> yes please, i'd like who requests that
<ogra> s/lik7/like to know
<Tonio_> let me check and give you a few urls :)
<ogra> dholbach, ??? ^^^
<Tonio_> revu is a terrible mess, so give me 10 minutes
<Tonio_> not sure, but I think Daniel requests that yes...
<dholbach> ogra: ?
<Tonio_> but I don't want to say without beeing sure
<Tonio_> hi dholbach ;)
<ogra> dholbach, we require urls for pacages in the description now ?
<dholbach> not require
<dholbach> but i think it's nice to have
<ogra> sure it is, but thats no reason to reject a package
<Tonio_> dholbach: I personnally already received NO just because of that, so....
<ogra> especially if they break policy then
<dholbach> ogra: the policy?
<Tonio_> well, in any case, I will remove the url from that package
<Tonio_> dholbach: the url is too long
<ogra> dholbach, what do you do with such urls :
<ogra> http://www.brainspace.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=24
<dholbach> Tonio_: then remove
<Tonio_> and causes a lintian warning
<dholbach> ogra: what do you mean?
<Tonio_> dholbach: okay, and no need to explain why it isn't there ?
<dholbach> ogra: it's nice to be able to run apt-cache show <package> and look at the homepage, if anything goes wrong or i'm more interested in it - quite a lot of packages do it
<Tonio_> problem is that certain MOTU wouldn't advocate for that....
<ogra> dholbach, it cant go conform with policy if you require such a long url in the description
<dholbach> Tonio_: we shouldn't make it a requirement
<dholbach> ogra: please read what i said before
<ogra> its a nice to have, i agree
<Tonio_> okay, so I have the solution, I'm gonna remove the homepage from the file
<Tonio_> thanks ogra, dholbach ;)
<ogra> but a descriptive description is more important, and the url should be in the copyright already
<Tonio_> ho dholbach since your there, I have to contact elmo concerning pwmanager
<Tonio_> gonna do it today
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> so we finally get it in :)
<Tonio_> I am more motivated that never ;)
<Tonio_> problems resolved, so everything's okay
<dholbach> Tonio_: i'm glad to hear that
<Tonio_> ho dholbach also
<Tonio_> I had a problem with some packages
<Tonio_> makefine.in in src when using MOC doesn't find .h files
<dholbach> i have no idea, how moc works, sorry :/
<Tonio_> it is a problem with path
<Tonio_> not with moc
<Tonio_> path to header files isn't good...
<Tonio_> is patching the makefine.in a good way to proceed ?
<minghua> okay, I think my stomach is happy enough to let me sleep again
<Tonio_> it is functionnal, but I find the way dirty.....
<dholbach> Tonio_: it depends, what is the error message?
<Tonio_> dholbach: bla.h no file or directory
<Tonio_> with the correct path it works
<dholbach> shouldnt that be patched somewhere in the source?
<dholbach> rather than Makefile.in?
<Tonio_> nope
<Tonio_> let me show you the patch....
<Tonio_> dholbach: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/klibido-0512152120/klibido-0.2.4.1/debian/patches/kubuntu_03_fix_missing_header_files_using_MOC.patch
<Tonio_> in fact the .h files are search in obj-linux directory, while they are not copied
<Tonio_> and stay in the temp/package/src
<dholbach> wow, that looks like buildsystem-on-crack :)
<Tonio_> dholbach: I told you it was dirty lol
<Tonio_> the problem is that I don't know what lse can I do
<dholbach> have a look if you can't set a default dir to look in
<Tonio_> the files are searched in obj-i386-linux
<dholbach> and maybe ask riddell, the kde-buidsystem-meister
<Tonio_> hum..........
<Tonio_> a kind of path variable for header files ?
<Riddell> hmm?
<dholbach> yeah something
<dholbach> maybe in configure.*
<Tonio_> I have two packages that have exactly the same problem
<Tonio_> dholbach: in that statement, is that advocatable ?
<Tonio_> just to define priority in my packages ;)
<dholbach> Tonio_: someone who can judge kde buildsystems should have a look at it
<dholbach> it doesnt look earth-shatteringly stupid
<Tonio_> dholbach: and of course if ti builds correctly with the next version I will remove the package so...
<Tonio_> will remove IT FROM the package ;)
<dholbach> yeah
<siretart> asbin: are you by chance also upstream of ushare?
<siretart> asbin: better release without that debian/ dir in the orig.tar.gz, so that all packaging related stuff remains in diff.gz
<Tonio_> siretart: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1194
<Tonio_> siretart: I finaly corrected the .sh file in /usr/bin
<Tonio_> patch sent to upstream, I'm waiting for a response
<siretart> Tonio_: I'm building it now
<Tonio_> k
<siretart> Tonio_: the orig.tar.gz does not seem to match the upstream tarball
<siretart> Tonio_: why?
<Tonio_> siretart: noted in the changelog
<Tonio_> cvs dir in admin
<Tonio_> .cvsignore file to remove
<siretart> ah, sorry
<Tonio_> and a build system that causes a mess to build with pbuilder :)
<Tonio_> so I simply took the klamav subfolder and rebuilt the tarball from that
<siretart> ok
<siretart> advocated
<siretart> lunchtime now, cu later
<Tonio_> cool ;)
<Tonio_> good lunch
<\sh> moins
<slomo> hi \sh :)
<\sh> lol
<\sh> http://mtaylor.be/photos/albums/userpics/10002/Scene_1_AMD_Duron_Vaporizing_final_divx_lq1.avi
<slomo> \sh: rofl... i should try this with my old athlon =)
<siretart> huhu \sh, hi slomo
<slomo> hi siretart :)
<\sh> slomo: it's faked btw...
<dholbach> ouch
<raphink> guys am I wrong or shouldn't upgrades of package in main be in REVU?
<Nafallo> REVU is for MOTUs
<Nafallo> MOTUs is for Universe/Multiverse :-)
<siretart> GRR
<siretart> now I know what broke my sound
<Treenaks> pitti?
<siretart> how to I define in new world oder which is my primary alsa soundcard?
<siretart> no my shitty onboard chip gets as card0
<ogra> siretart, you should be able to select the output device in the desktop settings ...
<siretart> ogra: does it become then card0 or do I just choose there which card I want to use?
<ogra> you just choose
<siretart> I need to make my sblive as card0
<ogra> open system->settings->audio
<siretart> because of some legacy apps
<raphink> that's what I thought Nafallo
<ogra> there is a selector
<raphink> there's this upgrade of gcompris in the list right now
<raphink> although gcompris is main
<raphink> where should this guy go?
<siretart> ogra: default soundcard is empty for me
<ogra> then thats wrong
<siretart> ogra: I cannot select anything
<ogra> raphink, ^^^
<ogra> siretart, poke pitti ...
<raphink> hi ogra
<ogra> raphink, gcompris in REVU is definately wrong ...
* raphink just read that Nature had done a study comparing Wikipedia and Britannica and scientific subjects and the results were almost the same
<raphink> ogra: I mean what should I tell this guy to do?
<ogra> that its in main
<raphink> sure
<ogra> and will be synced next week from debian anyway
<raphink> :)
<raphink> oh ok :)
<raphink> good
<raphink> I'll tell him that
<ogra> usually there are no ubuntu specific changes, i work tight with gcompris upstream ...
<ogra> so whats in debian most likely works fine for us ...
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I've commented and archived
<siretart> thanks for archiving
<ogra> raphink, thanks for caring :)
<raphink> I do'nt manage to keep my house clean
<raphink> but I do my best to keep REVU clean ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> message received on motu-reviewers :)
<kos_tom> hi
<kos_tom> siretart: hi
<raphink> sistpoty's system works fine :)
<raphink> hi kos_tom
<kos_tom> siretart: I just received a mail from raphink telling me that uploading GCompris to Revu was a mistake ...
<kos_tom> raphink: hi !
<siretart> kos_tom: hey
<raphink> wow that was fast kos_tom ;)
<siretart> kos_tom: ogra is here
<raphink> I just sent it
<raphink> like 20 seconds ago
<siretart> kos_tom: 13:59:49 < ogra> usually there are no ubuntu specific changes, i work tight with gcompris upstream ...
<ogra> kos_tom, gcompris is in main
<asbin> I'm back, sorry ;)
<asbin> siretart : I'm one of the developpers of ushare
<siretart> ogra: he needs a new upstream of gcompris for his school I think
<asbin> You suggest to not include the debian/ dir in the tarball ? why ?
<siretart> ogra: so he packaged a new upstream version
<siretart> asbin: because of separation of concerns
<siretart> asbin: upstream work is upstream work, and packaging is packaging
<kos_tom> siretart: yep, exactly. Actually, it's not for my school, but for one school ;)
<ogra> there is nothing newer than 7.0
<asbin> yes, but I want to have debian dir in the repository
<kos_tom> and upstream really likes when new versions are packaged fastly.
<siretart> asbin: do you know svn-buildpackage?
<siretart> asbin: it's a great tool
<ogra> oh, there is, i just see i got a notification mail
<asbin> this package is maintained by arch, is there a tla-buildpackage ?
<ogra> kos_tom, are you fine with 7.1 ?
<kos_tom> ogra: personnally, I don't care. Users care. 7.2 has new activities, new administration functionalities, etc.
<ogra> kos_tom, could you ask debian to package 7.2 then ?
<ogra> i wont introduce big changes from debian if possible if we have to support the app for 3 years in dapper
<kos_tom> the problem is that users see the release announce, which announces new shiny features, so users wants the new version. Then they ask the upstream developer... but he can't do much, it is not possible to maintain packages for all distributions.
<ogra> i'll sync 7.1 asap from debian
<kos_tom> I think Yann (from Debian) will soon upload a new version
<ogra> yup, then its fine ...
<ogra> i just want to keep the delta to debian small for dapper, gcompris is an essential bit of edubuntu
<asbin> siretart: I found arch-buildpackage, I will try it ;)
<ogra> twice as far away ?
<siretart> asbin: :)
<asbin> siretart: I will try tla-buildpackage in fact ;)
<siretart> /dev/mapper/vg00-data00 1,5T  129M  1,4T   1% /mnt
<siretart> this is fun :)
<raphink> haha
<azeem> amoll: so are those ALL CAPS in BALL a design choice (like in your control; Package: BALLVIEW), or is this some legacy from having it on a DOS file system or so?
<siretart> asbin: oh, if you are using tla, then using that is really really handy
<siretart> asbin: basically then use the config feature auf tla: you keep the upstream source and the debian/ dir in different branches and use configs to construct them
<siretart> asbin: {arch,tla}-buildpackage are 'just' automating the workflow
<asbin> siretart: ok
<asbin> siretart: I don't know the config feature of tla, what is it ?
<siretart> asbin: tla has some command 'buildcfg' (I'm not exactly sure how it is called)
<siretart> asbin: it expects a simple textfile as parameter, which states line by line which branch of your repository should be mounted where
<asbin> siretart: ok, I will chek out some examples
<asbin> siretart: Or I can just make the releases without the debian directory, and use it just for building the package ?
<siretart> asbin: exactly that's what I'm asking you to do
<\sh> TheMuso: ping
<\sh> lets rock a bit
<dholbach> TheMuso: i guess he's asleep
<\sh> I need a translation
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/partimage/+bug/5384
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5384: partimage: merge new debian version In: partimage (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5384
<raphink> ok then here
<raphink> slomo: could you advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1163 again please?
<\sh> ok...just understand
<slomo> raphink: already almost done :P
<raphink> already almost done ?
<raphink> hehe
<slomo> yes, i only needed to login again and click on advocate ;)
<raphink> hehe ok :)
<raphink> thanks
<raphink> Riddell: when you have time, could you have a look at kyamo ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1105
<Riddell> "when you have time"  that's the tricky bit :)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> well ignore it then
<raphink> can you please review it?
<Riddell> yes, I'll try to do it today, keep pesterin me if I don't
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> thanks
* Kyral yawns
<Kyral> I love being home
<Kyral> I can take as long showers as I want without people bitching at me
<raphink> hehe
<JohnnyMast> hi !
<raphink> hi JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> aah raphink i was looking for you
<raphink> oh really?
<JohnnyMast> yeah
<raphink> well I was at home ;)
<raphink> just come and knock I'm there ;)
<JohnnyMast> same here :p
<JohnnyMast> * Make a patch for ttb.desktop to add GenericName entrie(s) to it, accordingly to the freedesktop.org standards.
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> yes but I was not looking for you
<raphink> yep
<JohnnyMast> could you explain me that point?
<raphink>  .desktop files need to contain GenericName entries
<raphink> I'll show you
<JohnnyMast> Names[nl] 
<raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/466751
<raphink> this is the patch I've done for Knmap's desktop file
<raphink> adding GenericName and Categories
<JohnnyMast> checking ..
<raphink> in your case, Categories is present so you don't need to patch that
<raphink> GenericName is the short description of the app that can be used in the menus
<JohnnyMast> Comment[xx]  is something that can be left out
<JohnnyMast> as been found on line 7
<raphink> probably
<JohnnyMast> you can add it like
<JohnnyMast> Comment:
<JohnnyMast> or
<JohnnyMast> comment=
<raphink> yes, I've seen it
<JohnnyMast> thats the generic comment
<raphink> hmm no
<JohnnyMast> but i dont need it
<JohnnyMast> its a dutch app
<raphink> so what?
<JohnnyMast> the comment in mine
<JohnnyMast> is already in english
<raphink> you can put GenericName and GenericName[nl] 
<JohnnyMast> hmm thats a good point
<JohnnyMast> ok next thing, the man pages its required right?
<raphink> yes
<raphink> in Debian policy
<raphink> all binaries must have manpages
<JohnnyMast> yes litnian warned about it
<JohnnyMast> well not all just /usr entry`s
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> and /bin and /sbin
<raphink> you can use docbook2x to create it easily
<raphink> yes
<JohnnyMast> apt-get install docbook2x ?
<raphink> well rather docbook2x in the Build-Depends
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> have a look at the knmap package
<raphink> let me find it
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/knmap-0512141825/knmap-1.0/debian/
<raphink> there
<JohnnyMast> ok
<raphink> there's knmap.1.docbook
<JohnnyMast> thanks
<raphink> that contains the xml to generate the manpages
<raphink> then you need dependencies in control
<raphink> and rules in rules ;)
<raphink> to create and clean the files
<JohnnyMast> hmm
<JohnnyMast> hold a sec
<raphink> k
<JohnnyMast> dh_installman gzips the manual package ?
<JohnnyMast> because on ur link its plain and not compessed
<raphink> it installs the $appname.1 manual
<raphink> if present
<raphink> yes
<raphink> because the manpages are created in rules
<JohnnyMast> like as on my own ftpd it has a already gziped man page
<raphink> from the .docbook
<raphink> which is plain
<raphink> so it's easier to maintain
<JohnnyMast> is docbook gui ?
<raphink> no
<JohnnyMast> hmm oki
<raphink> it's a .docbook file
<raphink> it's xml
<raphink> well it's up to you
* JohnnyMast gves JohnnyMast a coffee for his day of hard work
<raphink> using docbook2x is easier imo
<JohnnyMast> i installed it
<raphink> k
<bddebian> Howdy gang
<azeem> Barry!
<dholbach> hey bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi Daniel!
<dholbach> how are you, man?
<dholbach> we missed you
<bddebian> Tired man..
<bddebian> I've missed you guys too :-)
* dholbach hugs bddebian
<bddebian> So what have I "Missed" ;-)
<bddebian> Besides ajmitch's motu class :-(
<siretart> hey bddebian!
<bddebian> Howdy siretart.
<siretart> bddebian: well, we did quite a lot of merges, had a REVU day, and are testing the new wonders of dapper
<siretart> all in all: a great time :)
<siretart> hey pef!
<bddebian> Aye, I've been missing the hustle and bustle :-)
<pef> hello
<dholbach> hey pef
<pef> hello Daniel
<hub> hi
<JohnnyMast> hi hub
<siretart> bddebian: how was your time?
<\sh> hey bddebian
<\sh> bddebian: long time no see...where did you hide?
<bddebian> \sh: At work :'-(
<bddebian> siretart: My time?
<siretart> bddebian: you were busy with work and live, wife and kids, I assume, right
<siretart> ?
<\sh> bddebian: oh damn...
<bddebian> siretart: Aye, work mostly :-(
<\sh> bddebian: well...I resigned my job, and now i'm waiting for a new one, or a bridge with wifi access ;)
<sivang> \sh: hehe
<siretart> \sh: :(
<bddebian> \sh: If I recall you were not happy there right?
<\sh> siretart: lets see on monday e.g.
<siretart> \sh: what is on monday?
<\sh> bddebian: well...it was fun...but it changed when our new bosses came
<bddebian> \sh: Ah, I know that feeling
<\sh> bddebian: dude I missed you soo much at ubz
<bddebian> \sh: Aye, me too, I was really pissed that I didn't get to go :-(
<bddebian> \sh: How was it?
<\sh> bddebian: I said to siretart, "Siretart, nothing else matters, not even sabdfl, when bddebian doesn't come"
<bddebian> Hahaha, yeah right :-)
* sivang has the same problem, re-organization are not good at all :-/
<\sh> bddebian: great was it
<sivang> bddebian: what do you do at your job?
<sivang> bddebian: (btw, again, Barry, hi!!)
<bddebian> sivang: Just about everything but my title is "IT Manager" :-)
<sivang> bddebian: oh, cool.
<sivang> or , "Director of IT"
<bddebian> or, "Peon" or "Jack of all trades, master of NONE" ;-)
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> bddebian: well, stuff really cracked on me lately in my job, too many re-orgs, switching managers, faulting specs, you name it ;-)
<sivang> (out IT Manager left some weeks ago)
<bddebian> sivang: Yeah, that is never fun
<sivang> bddebian: yep. I actually wouldn't mind it if I could catch up on Ubuntu stuff during the 48 hours I Have during the weekend, but that's SO hard given all the movement and traffic...
<\sh> so..if you ever want to have a absolute nice movie..."The Interpreter" made by sidney pollack...watch it...nicole kidman, sean penn...very good thriller
<bddebian> If Nicole ain't nekkid, I ain't watching.. ;-P
<sivang> hehe
<\sh> bddebian: ah...and I'm not compiling anymore on a hp nc6000 :) I just bought shortly before I left the company a sempron64 :)
<sivang> bddebian++
<bddebian> So where's tseng and slomo?
<bddebian> \sh: Nice
<sivang> oh, sempron is sweet
<slomo> bddebian: i'm here :) hi btw... where were you the last weeks? we already missed you :(
<\sh> sivang: well...it's a bit faster then a 1.6GHz Pentium-M
<bddebian> slomo: Work was much worse than I expected.. :-(   I read that you got main upload rights??  Congrats!!
<\sh> bddebian: siretart as well :) during ubz :)
<sivang> \sh: I bought one 32 sempron for my sister, (2400+) , it seems much faster then my 2.6Ghz intel box
<slomo> bddebian: thanks :) i have almost no time for anything currently too :( well, need to get some food now :) see you later
<bddebian> Laterz
<bddebian> \sh: siretart = main?
<\sh> bddebian: yepp
<bddebian> Awesome, congrats siretart
<siretart> bddebian: thanks :)
<\sh> bddebian: it's a project.."MOTU Takeover of Main" ,)
<\sh> when we're good we will finish our project at the end of dapper release...more motus in main then paid devs *eg*
<raphink> hehe
<JohnnyMast> raphink i dont get how to use docbook2x
<raphink> JohnnyMast: look in the package I sent you the url of
<JohnnyMast> i did
<JohnnyMast> i only see an xml file
<raphink> so ?
<raphink> yes
<JohnnyMast> how did you create it
<raphink> and I told you to look in debian/control and debian/rules aswell ;)
<raphink> oh
<\sh> JohnnyMast: in rules in install target
<raphink> I created the xml file manually
<raphink> just take it and modify it
<raphink> ;)
<\sh> JohnnyMast: vim/emacs/gedit/kate
<raphink> modify the xml file manually to fit your needs
<JohnnyMast> \sh pico !
<raphink> and then use rules to build the manpages ;)=
<JohnnyMast> aaah ok
<\sh> JohnnyMast: or do a dh_make in a dummy env...there is as well an example
<raphink> nano rules ! :)
<JohnnyMast> yep
<JohnnyMast> ok ty
<raphink> JohnnyMast: this is a gtk app though, no?
<JohnnyMast> yep
<raphink> so try to find a gtk app docbook
<raphink> since knmap is qt
<JohnnyMast> ur man number is wrong i think
<JohnnyMast> should be 7 not 1
<JohnnyMast>  1   Executable programs or shell commands
<raphink> so what?
<raphink> knmap is an executable program
<JohnnyMast> urs is a kde app right ?
<raphink> yes
<raphink> it's an exec app
<raphink> if I type knmap in a console
<raphink> it launches
<raphink> that's what I call an exec
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> well ok
<raphink> no?
<raphink> you don't seem to agree ;)
<JohnnyMast> well
<JohnnyMast> your right about the exec in 1 but 7 where man(7) is part of is also an executable
<JohnnyMast> 7   Miscellaneous  (including  macro  packages and conven
<JohnnyMast>            tions), e.g. man(7), groff(7)
<raphink> 7 is for special stuff
<raphink> most mans are 1
<JohnnyMast> in that case ur right
<raphink> :)
<JohnnyMast> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<LaserJock> hi JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> :)
<LaserJock> dang it dholbach left
<raphink> No route to host
<raphink> he's lost on the internet jungle
<raphink> s/on/in/
<raphink> hi LaserJock btw
<bddebian> \sh: So, is there an MOTUMainTakeover Team I can join? ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: right now and here..rock :)
<LaserJock> bddebian!!!!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, how goes it
<LaserJock> well, good, I just took the last final of my university career
<bddebian> Nice
<LaserJock> I also became an Ubuntu member and a doc-team member
<bddebian> Awesome, congrats
<raphink> \sh: since sistpoty has done it so reviews are sent to motu-reviewers@t.d maybe it could be good to send a message to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c so people are informed of this
<\sh> raphink: yeah do it :)
<raphink> \sh: I do it myself ? ;)
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, you really got me started on this whole thing so I am very thankful for that.
<raphink> hehe :)
<\sh> raphink: sure...I work right now :)
<LaserJock> anybody up for a quick REVU? I need to get plotdrop in Universe this weekend ;-)
<tseng> bddebian: ?
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> hey
<LaserJock> finals over?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> home :D
<LaserJock> good, get to work *whip*
* Kyral catches the whip around his arm
<Kyral> Only women are allowed to whip me ;P
<LaserJock> sure ;-)
<raphink> \sh: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/466829
<LaserJock> Kyral: anything up with FlowDesigner?
<Kyral> LaserJock: No...
<Kyral> LaserJock: I'll have to fix it myself it seems
<LaserJock> Kyral: do you know what to fix?
<Kyral> LaserJock: I think its just SONAME
<\sh> raphink: that's it :) send it dude :)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, ok. Maybe it is better to fix it yourself and  then wait for them.
<Kyral> and also EasyChem
<raphink> siretart: seems to me there's a 80KB diff on config.sub though
<raphink> siretart: ping
<bddebian> LaserJock: My pleasure ;-)
<bddebian> tseng: Just wanted to say hey!
<Kyral> holy hell when did bddebian return?
<LaserJock> Kyral: what about EasyChem? Is there something wrong with it?
<Kyral> LaserJock: minor warnings in the build log
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
* \sh needs a shower and has to go to the bloody bank
<\sh> laters
<Treenaks> \sh: your blog broke again
<\sh> Treenaks: again...it's planet
<\sh> Treenaks: it's not the blog....
<\sh> Treenaks: all planetplanet implementation have this problem...because scott made a mistake it not using a good db backend
<tseng> bddebian: hi
<\sh> ok..gone for a while
<LaserJock> Kyral: well at least you've got one vote foe EasyChem, I got nada for plotdrop ;-)
<raphink> bye then \sh
<Kyral> hehe
<siretart> raphink: huh?
<raphink> siretart: the diff is 80KB, due to big changes to config.sub mostly
<raphink> from what I see
<siretart> raphink: perhaps I can do some filterdiff magic
<raphink> what do you mean?
<siretart> what package was this again?
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1205
<raphink> look at the size of the diff
<raphink> wb dholbach
<dholbach> re
<dholbach> :)
<raphink> glad to see you found your way back
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<siretart> raphink: try the diff again, is this better?
<raphink> what do you mean? it's still 81KB
<siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=1204&upid2=1205
<siretart> it is now just a few lines
<siretart> I modified diff.py
<dholbach> sistpoty, raphink: you guys rock!
<raphink> dholbach: sistpoty rocks
<raphink> but he's not here ;)
<raphink> I don't understand what you modified siretart :s
* siretart sucks for not working on revu2 :(
<siretart> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=1204&upid2=1205 doesnt show the diff to config.{guess,sub} anymore
<raphink> ah
<dholbach> raphink: you rock too
<raphink> I was not referring to the debdiff siretart
<raphink> I was referring to the diff sent with the package
<raphink> ty dholbach :s
<siretart> raphink: ah, he is using a bad dh_make package, which copies config.{sub,guess} on clean target in debian/rules
<siretart> unfortunatly, this is still in the default dh_make template and quite common
<siretart> :(
<raphink> mh
<raphink> mhm
* siretart is out for lunch
<siretart> enough ubuntu work for today (since about 10)
<dholbach> siretart: bon apptit
<siretart> thanks, dholbach
<raphink> brb
<slomo> siretart: cdbs does the same... but saves the old ones and restores them on clean... much saner
<dholbach> ROCK, revu-mails work
<dholbach> nice!
<hub> today is snow day
<dholbach> here too
<dholbach> yay
<hub> since I don't have VPN access, I work at home
<hub> and can't work
<dholbach> and it's drum'n'bass day later
<hub> :-/
<hub> dholbach: eheh
<hub> that will delay the laptop purchase though
<dholbach> but now i will think about giving-a-talk-later--day
<hub> btw when is the freeze for new package in Universe?
<JohnnyMast> raphink i patched the things you wrote about http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1207 thats the new version
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'll have a look later
<JohnnyMast> ok
<JohnnyMast> any motu has some spare time to look now ?
<\sh> hub: 19th january
<hub> \sh: ok
<hub> thx
<\sh> dholbach: "giving-a-talk-later"--day?
<hub> is it safe to remove linux-restricted-modules package?
<dholbach> \sh: umeet.uninet.edu
<hub> as I don't have any hardware that requires it
<Treenaks> hub: if you don't have any hardware that needs it; yes
<raphink> hub: I think it's not required
<raphink> well by default that is ;)
<\sh> dholbach: what is it?
<hub> byebye kernel tainting :-)
<raphink> it is if you use fglrx or so
<raphink> hehe
<hub> raphink: I don't
<dholbach> \sh: i need to make notes, just look at the page :)
<dholbach> \sh: please :)
<raphink> ok
<JohnnyMast> i sugest a fix of a sentence that mails from revu to the mailing list
<JohnnyMast> Package was uploaded from: rave at rosiello.org
<JohnnyMast> should be Package was uploaded by: rave at rosiello.org
<raphink> hi slomo
<slomo_> re
<slomo_> :)
<raphink> how are you?
<raphink> JohnnyMast: I'll have a look at your package
<JohnnyMast> jeej :)
<raphink> would you have a look at mine in the meanwhile?
<JohnnyMast> sure
<slomo_> raphink: could be better... but it's ok ;)
<raphink> this is mine : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1208
<raphink> which one is yours?
<raphink> slomo_: ok
<ajmitch> bddebian!!!!!111ONE you're alive!!
<raphink> slomo_: do you have time to have a quick look at a package I just did?
<raphink> s/did/made/
<slomo_> raphink: sure... everything else i could touch is broken anyway ;)
<JohnnyMast> no man pages
<raphink> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1208
<raphink> JohnnyMast: no bin either ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> there's only a need for manpages if there is a bin
<raphink> in /usr /bin or /sbin
<JohnnyMast> what is the c++ source then ?
<slomo_> raphink: will take a look :) but it's more efficient to let it reviewed only once at the same time ;)
<raphink> there is binaries
<raphink> but not in a folder that would require it to have manpages
<raphink> the binaries are not be called directly from a console
<raphink> but to be used embed in kcontrol or systemsettings
<raphink> that's why there's no manpages
<raphink> ;)
<JohnnyMast> Copyright file need some patches
<raphink> JohnnyMast: which copyright file?
<JohnnyMast> debian/copyright
<raphink> what's wrong with it?
<slomo_> ok, i'll wait until you fixed it and review then ;P
<raphink> slomo_: hey
<raphink> :
<raphink> so far nothing to fix ;)
<slomo_> raphink: it's also better for you =) maybe you get my vote instantly then
<slomo_> hm, the copyright file?
<raphink> well what is there to change in it?
<JohnnyMast> and maybe just for the looks dep on debhelper ( >= 5)
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: +On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU Lesser General
<Hieronymus> +Public License can be found in `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<slomo_> no idea... ask JohnnyMast :) or is he looking at something else
<raphink> I did
<raphink> ask him
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: you want GPL, not LGPL
<JohnnyMast> Noted
<raphink> JohnnyMast: what is ther eto change in my debian/copyright?
<JohnnyMast> what Hieronymus just sayed
<JohnnyMast> end with On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU Lesser General
<JohnnyMast> Public License can be found in `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<JohnnyMast> or GPLG
<slomo_> raphink: debhelper >= 5 would be nice... >> 5 is a bit strong ;)
<JohnnyMast> *GPL or what ever
<raphink> ok
<JohnnyMast> yeah thats what i sayed as well
<slomo_> copyright is fine imho
<JohnnyMast> but i didnt prefix rapthink so i didnt think he got it
<raphink> I don't get the LGPL stuff though
<raphink> this soft is under GPL, not LGPL
<slomo_> what do you want to change with copyright? ;) it's fine if i'm not too blind
<JohnnyMast> raphink you can replace the name of the license
<raphink> slomo_: just the -2 for the licence maybe
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ it was pointed to me to fix it
<raphink> JohnnyMast: no I'm not to replace the name fo the licence
<raphink> this soft is under GPL
<raphink> and I'm not to change the name
<raphink> LGPL is something different
<slomo_> hehe
<JohnnyMast> you can change the name of the license
<raphink> I don't think the author would be so happy to have his soft under LPGL
<JohnnyMast> that dir contains them
<raphink> if he wanted it under GPL
<JohnnyMast> but neways
<raphink> JohnnyMast: change the name of the licence where?
<JohnnyMast> got to fix Hieronymus his sugestion
<slomo_> raphink: GPL is a link to GPL-2 iirc
<JohnnyMast> *** /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<JohnnyMast> to for example
<slomo_> yes it is
<JohnnyMast> *** /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<raphink> slomo_: yes, that I noted
<JohnnyMast> IF you had it
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: ttb.1.docbook: tele tekst -> teletekst
<JohnnyMast> besides
<raphink> yop
<raphink> changed to -2
<slomo_> raphink: ok, maybe add a watch file and b-d on debhelper >= 5, everything else fine without building ;)
<JohnnyMast> that is on the wiki as well raphink
<raphink> JohnnyMast: quote patches namely in changelog
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: web site -> website
<JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide
<bddebian> ajmitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<JohnnyMast> check the wiki template of the copyright file
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: +Teletekst browser is written by with help of some other people around
<Hieronymus> +him.
<Hieronymus> that sentence is weird
<raphink> I don't know how to make watch files slomo_
<JohnnyMast> oops forgot to paste the name in Hieronymus
<Hieronymus> oh, you mean by $name
<slomo_> raphink: look at my cowbell package for an example ;)
<raphink> ok
<slomo_> raphink: but it's not needed... only nice to have :)
<raphink> sure slomo_  :)
<raphink> slomo_: is that fine ?
<raphink> version=2
<raphink> http://autostart.pwsp.net/releases/autostart-(.*)\.tar\.gz debian uupdate
<slomo_> yes
<raphink> ok :)
<slomo_> you can also do a more elaborated regexp in the () but it's fine ;)
<raphink> uploading again then
<slomo_> the part in the () is taken as the version number
<raphink> well they'll be this way
<raphink> ok
<raphink> that's how it looked so it's good
<raphink> uploaded again, now waiting for it to show up ;)
<raphink> I checked the debuild && debuild -S -sa diff test
<raphink> and it builds fine in my pbuilder
<raphink> :)
<slomo_> ok, i'm building it now on ppc ;) we'll see if it is ok :P
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: remove the name[xx]  in the .desktop and put a Name[nl]  in there
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus alright
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: use Icon=ttb and add a newline at the end of the file
<JohnnyMast> are you sure about the Icon thing ?
<raphink> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1209
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: pretty sure
<JohnnyMast> and it would NOT corrupt the icon because it might need an extention
<jpatrick> raphink: ping!
<JohnnyMast> can any one verify Hieronymus his toucht ?.
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus sorry i dont doubt you i just want to be sure
<raphink> argh
<raphink> jpatrick: I have to leave now
<raphink> what do you want?
<jpatrick> raphink: it's about my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1205
<raphink> yep?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath can
<jpatrick> raphink: debian/copyright: that's how I've always done it
<raphink> jpatrick: oh well it's just a small detail
<jpatrick> raphink: there is nothing in /usr/bin because it's a KControl module
<raphink> hmm ok
<jpatrick> raphink: and I added the rule to generate pot file as stated in debian/changelog
<raphink> jpatrick: then remove debian/dires
<raphink> debian/dirs
<jpatrick> right
<jpatrick> and I never touched the src
<raphink> you don't need to state your modifications in the changelog
<raphink> as long as you don't patch the source or so
<jpatrick> just remvoed the . at the end of the short des. (as siretart said)
<raphink> modifications to debian/ only have to be logged after the first official release
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> well seems siretart found out what was wrong with the diff
<raphink> something in rules
<raphink> ask him about that
<jpatrick> hmm
<raphink> because there's the fact that your diff is 81KB, largely modifying config.sub
<jpatrick> when/where did he say that?
<raphink> here a few minutes ago
<raphink> well some time ago acutally
<raphink> siretart: are you there?
<jpatrick> maybe I should remove the config.sub thing in the rules
<raphink> jpatrick: my pb with the source is this : http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kdmtheme-0512161255/kdmtheme_0.9.1-0ubuntu1.diff
<raphink> siretart seemed to think it was a dh_stuff rule in debian/rules that shouldn't be there
<raphink> ask him
<raphink> I really should go now
<jpatrick> okay cya :)
<raphink> bye
<slomo_> bye
<LaserJock> is it ok to have both a .png and .xpm in /usr/share/pixmaps?
<crimsun> it's redundant but harmless
<TheMuso> \sh: Thanks. I have been working on other bugs and the xdmcp-dev issue has popped up as well.
<\sh> TheMuso: no prob
<crimsun> let me guess: libgtk2.0-dev.
<TheMuso> I don'
<TheMuso> I don't really know but the same dependancy has popped up for other gtk-based apps I have been trying to fix things with.
<JohnnyMast> hi TheMuso :)
<TheMuso> JohnnyMast: Hey there.
<JohnnyMast> everything okey ?
<TheMuso> Yes thanks
<TheMuso> Haven't done any merges for a while as I have been busy.
<JohnnyMast> same here
<JohnnyMast> im working on my own revu package atm
<slomo_> TheMuso: the libxdmcp-dev problem should be fixed afaik... dholbach uploaded a libx11-dev which depends on it earlier today
<TheMuso> slomo_: Yeah he told me.
<TheMuso> We have been working on a bug for an a11y package which is why I knwo about it.
<\sh> slomo: too late for me..when I checked TheMusos package :)
<\sh> so i have to upload tomorrow a fixed package *grrr*
<slomo_> raphink: you have a vote for your package :)
<jpatrick> \sh: thanks for the kxdocker acceptance :)
<siretart> slomo_: http://mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2005-December/005623.html
<siretart> jpatrick: raphink: pong
<siretart> whats up?
<jpatrick> siretart: something about my kdmtheme package
<slomo_> siretart: hmm, can _we_ help them? do we have the knowledge? ;)
<siretart> jpatrick: ah, the redundant config.{guess,sub} issue?
<crimsun> omg.
* crimsun stabs his eyes at the ffmpeg-devel mail
<jpatrick> siretart: I removed those now
<siretart> crimsun: its really frustrating, yes :(
* ajmitch will stay far, far away from mplayer & ffmpeg hacking ;)
<siretart> it there wasn't that many ignorant devs around...
<bddebian> wuss ;-)
<thierry> siretart : hi, I made a package I'd like to send to REVU, I just sent a message to keyring@tiber.tauware.de to get upload rights
<crimsun> oh wow, barry's back. Assign him the desktop boogs!
<crimsun> quick!
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's called self-preservation
<ajmitch> crimsun: already done
<crimsun> ajmitch: rockin'
<ajmitch> he's got all the remaining merge bugs too
<crimsun> suhweet!
<ajmitch> plus I've got 50 or so to offload onto him
<siretart> thierry: tell me your keyid
<ajmitch> bddebian: you don't mind? great!
<\sh> damn
<thierry> 12CC71FA
<\sh> who can I change my revu password?
<ajmitch> no objections so far, so we're set :)
<ajmitch> \sh: now we can kick back & have a drink while barry hacks ;)
<siretart> \sh: you have root on tiber, just change it in postgres ;)
<\sh> siretart: gnarf
<ajmitch> hehe
<siretart> \sh: (hint, there is a script called /srv/revu1/scripts/alter_user.py for that)
<bddebian> Sure, why not.. :-)
<siretart> \sh: just call it without arguments for help
<ajmitch> it has a -p option
<siretart> to set the password
<ajmitch> siretart: hey, we can start our holidays now
<ajmitch> barry's back!
<siretart> ajmitch: excellent. I was waiting for this day :)
<thierry> siretart : 12CC71FA
<\sh> siretart: merci
<ajmitch> siretart: I think we need a link to the build logs page as well on the merge page :)
* \sh hugs siretarg
<\sh> siretart ,)
<siretart> :)
<\sh> well...arg is not wrong somehow :)
<siretart> thierry: I didnt find your key in the keyserver, please upload it
<thierry> siretart : sending another e-mail?
<jpatrick> thierry: upload to keyserver.ubuntu.com
<siretart> thierry: please `gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com 12CC71FA`
<siretart> thierry: please `gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys 12CC71FA`
<thierry> siretart : done
<siretart> thierry: done :)
<thierry> siretart : thanks!
<ajmitch> ok, I've got to go
<ajmitch> sorry to cut my ubuntu time short today, but I've got good excuses this time ;)
<jpatrick> siretart: reuploaded `kdmtheme' - hopefully the .diff looks better now
<LaserJock> is there a way to test is a patch is working? does spatch apply-all in the src directory work?
<siretart> jpatrick: besides, who is upstream for kdmtheme? and where to download it?
<LaserJock> by working I mean applied
<jpatrick> siretart: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=22120
<jpatrick> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1214
<JohnnyMast> looks nice patrick
<jpatrick> thank you :)
<JohnnyMast> np
<JohnnyMast> raphink welcome back home
<siretart> jpatrick: what did you change in the last 2 uploads? the debdiff seems empty
<siretart> hi Mirno
<jpatrick> siretart: removed config.sub and config.guess
<jpatrick> they weren't in the src
<jpatrick> and removed the rules in debian/rules
<siretart> jpatrick: from what? the upstream tarball?
<jpatrick> siretart: no
<jpatrick> the file were on my machine
<jpatrick> files*
<Mirno> hi siretart
<siretart> jpatrick: err, it doesnt really matter if they are on the machines or not. Our packages are autobuilt anyway
<siretart> jpatrick: but I see you removed that updating config.{guess,sub} in clean target. good
<jpatrick> okay
<jpatrick> that's what I removed from the rules
<siretart> boah, why is there so much traffic on revu, anyway.. :)
<\sh> i'm not doing anything...I'm listening to dholbachs talk
<\sh> http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2005/english/pres.html
<siretart> \sh: how to hear? is it live?
<\sh> siretart: irc :) read the page :)
<siretart> ah
<jpatrick> maybe: http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2005/english/prog.html
<\sh> come join #linux@irc.uninet.edu
<\sh> and cheer for dholbach :) questions on #qc
<JohnnyMast> :/
<jpatrick> haven't seen Tonio in a while
<jpatrick> no advocations for kdmtheme?
<thierry> I got a package to upload but I always get Checksum doesn't match for /var/chroot/home/thierry/dev/build/libfxscintilla1.6_1.63-0ubuntu1.dsc
<thierry>  while all I've done is "sudo debuild && dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -kSOMEKEY"
<JohnnyMast> tackle \sh
<\sh> busy i am
<JohnnyMast> you sound like yoda :p
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<jpatrick> ...listening... (or more exactly reading)
<JohnnyMast> JohnnyMast here is
<bddebian> Well take care folks, hopefully I'll see you again very soon.. :-)
<Nafallo> OH!
<Nafallo> THAT WAS BDDEBIAN!
<Nafallo> where have he bean? :-)
<JohnnyMast> yes WAS :p
<Nafallo> been maybe...
<crimsun> busy with real life stuff
<crimsun> asked him about a month ago
<Nafallo> oh :-/
<Nafallo> any ETA on when he will be here fulltime again? :-)
<crimsun> nothing besides "hopefully"
<JohnnyMast> asap
<jpatrick> ETA: very soon
<Nafallo> hmm, oki
<JohnnyMast> any one willing to review my updates ?
<jpatrick> JohnnyMast: I'm waiting for someone to do mine :/
<JohnnyMast> jpatrick well i saw nothing bad in ur s i started when you posted ur link
<jpatrick> post yours
<JohnnyMast> kk
<jpatrick> I need tow MOTUs
<jpatrick> two*
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1212
<JohnnyMast> jpatrick haha same here :p
<jpatrick> JohnnyMast: in debian/changelog :: dependentie ?
<JohnnyMast> oops
<JohnnyMast> whats the correct word ?
<JohnnyMast> i suck @ writing in english
<jpatrick> dependency I believe
<Nafallo> Dep(s) I usually write ;-)
<jpatrick> JohnnyMast: I'm not to sure about the FSF address in copyright
<jpatrick> I leave it out
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: +  * Patched ttb.desktop to be more to fit freedesktop.org standards.
<Hieronymus> +    (01-ttb.desbtop_generalice.patch)
<Hieronymus> Patched ttb.desktop to make it conform to freedesktop.org standards.
<Hieronymus> (01-ttb.desktop_generalice.patch)
<JohnnyMast> jpatrick the address i have is the new address
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus yes ? whats up ?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: "to be more to fit" is incorrect or sounds weird at least
<JohnnyMast> ooh then it should be
<JohnnyMast> to fit the  freedesktop.org standards
<JohnnyMast> more bugs then typo`s ?
<jpatrick> looks okay to me
<JohnnyMast> well let me update the typo`s and tackle a motu
<JohnnyMast> whats the correct spelling of dependentie ?
<jpatrick> dependency
<JohnnyMast> roger !
<jpatrick> No my name's Patrick
<JohnnyMast> haha :p
<JohnnyMast> dutch humor
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: you're not funny. and I'm Dutch.
<JohnnyMast> Treenaks what else is new ?
<JohnnyMast> niets
<Hieronymus> I don't think you're funny. and I'm Dutch
<Hieronymus> that's new
<JohnnyMast> it seems some ppl dont like me
<JohnnyMast> there bad
<Treenaks> JohnnyMast: please write horizontally, and using correct words
<JohnnyMast> ^^ thats what i mean
<Treenaks> itym "that's"
<raphink> Riddell: did you have a look at kyamo already?
<Riddell> raphink: no, sorry, am deep in knetworkconf hacking
<raphink> ok
<raphink> np
<raphink> I just packaged a kcontrol module today aswell : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1209
<raphink> ;)
<jpatrick> raphink: could you take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1214
<raphink> did you talk with siretart about this source issue?
<jpatrick> raphink: yes
<raphink> good
<jpatrick> just removed config.sub and config.guess and removed a rule
<raphink> good
<raphink> did siretart approve these changes?
<jpatrick> raphink: yep
<jpatrick> and JohnnyMast
<raphink> good :)
<raphink> :)
<jpatrick> I have to go now
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> its a good thing
<JohnnyMast> because these files are creared after running configure
<JohnnyMast> so its not needed in any way to be in a package
<raphink> ok
<JohnnyMast> lets say its absolete
<raphink> yes
<JohnnyMast> i think upstream they didnt do
<raphink> jpatrick: just check that it builds twice though
<slomo_> what?
<JohnnyMast> make distclean before packing the release
<slomo_> you removed these files?
<raphink> that removing these files doesn't prevent it from building again
<jpatrick> raphink: I have
<jpatrick> and run pbuilder
<raphink> jpatrick: good
<raphink> good
<Kyral> hey guys
<JohnnyMast> hey Kyral
<Kyral> I love being home, get to play with my pups
<jpatrick> slomo_: care to take a look? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1214
<JohnnyMast> aww :)
<slomo_> jpatrick: sure... is it another kde package? ;)
<slomo_> hehe, good guess :)
<jpatrick> slomo_: errr... yes
<slomo_> everybody asks me to review kde packages... seems like we already have all gnome packages ;)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Actually is Kubuntu-Desktop supposed to be installable now?
<jpatrick> Kyral: I think Adept & PyKDE has some things todo
<Kyral> okay so I'm not the only one getting unmet dep things going on :D
<Riddell> Kyral: kubuntu-desktop should be installable, what's the problem?
<Kyral> Riddell: I'll try to grab it and put it in pastebin mkay?
<Riddell> thanks
<\sh> hey ASCIIGirl :)
<ASCIIGirl> hihi :)
<Kyral> as soon as the latest updates to Dapper are done
<slomo_> jpatrick: looks fine at a first look :) now let's build it and compare tarballs ;)
<\sh> ASCIIGirl: I encouraged a brasilien guy to become an ubuntu member :) "Og Maciel"
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ slomo about your gues about having all gnome packages..... i have one for you
<\sh> ASCIIGirl: http://www.ogmaciel.com/
<ASCIIGirl> lets see
<slomo_> jpatrick: maybe add a watch file :) i for one can't find something to download on the page you list in the description :P
<JohnnyMast> ".NET / Oracle Developer By Day,
<JohnnyMast> Linux Evangelist By Night."
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<ASCIIGirl> brb
<dholbach> good night everybody
<ASCIIGirl> night dholbach :)
<JohnnyMast> rapink: because it effects the desktop file
<JohnnyMast> nn dholbach
<dholbach> ASCIIGirl: nice to see you here :)
<slomo_> jpatrick: ok, you have my vote :)
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ i have a gnome one for you
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: perfect... show me :)
<JohnnyMast> ok :)
<JohnnyMast> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1216
<thierry> I have a problem sending a package to REVU, I always get "Checksum doesn't match for /var/chroot/home/thierry/dev/build/libfxscintilla1.6_1.63-0ubuntu1.dsc
<thierry> "
<thierry> this is really frustrating since my package is ready but I can't send it
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: hmm... correct the spelling of the patch filenames ;)
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ oth typo`ed ?
<JohnnyMast> *both
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> and please change the desktop file... the ones without language should be english
<slomo_> teletekst -> teletext
<JohnnyMast> no
<JohnnyMast> its not about teletext
<slomo_> not?
<JohnnyMast> thats something else then tele tekst
<slomo_> ok, accepted :)
<JohnnyMast> uhu
<slomo_> whatever it is :P
<JohnnyMast> i checked that with my local americans :p
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: teletekst, not tele tekst
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus thats fixed
<Hieronymus> slomo_: news from the tv
<JohnnyMast> or did i leave it some where ? ieronymus
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: no, but you just said it
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: maybe leave out shlibs:Depends
<JohnnyMast> ooh
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: not needed and if there's something in there it is now all package ;)
<slomo_> why is the setup.py patch needed btw?
<JohnnyMast> A) everything was done in control (dep checks B) it want compatible with pbuilder
<JohnnyMast> pbuilder installed the deps
<JohnnyMast> but the setup clamed it didnt
<slomo_> hm
<JohnnyMast> there are build logs on revu
<JohnnyMast> if you want to see them ?
<slomo_> please give me a url :)
<slomo_> <--- lazy
<JohnnyMast> ok + btw upstream knows about the patch
<JohnnyMast> hold on let me get it
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512141135/ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu1.buildlog
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: ok, let's summarize :) correct spelling of the patch filenames ;)
* slomo_ builds it now
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ i dont know the correct spelling of the new patch names :|
<JohnnyMast> im better in talking english then wrting (because i do for real all day long
<JohnnyMast> azeem welcome back home
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: 00-setup.py_depenend.patch -> 00-setup.py_dependency-fix.patch and 01-ttb.desbtop_generalice.patch -> 01-ttb.desktop_generalize.patch
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: imho
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ here is ur beer :)
<Kyral> Riddell: Interesting. When installing Kubuntu-Desktop with Apt-get, it works, but when giving the command to aptitude -R it doesn't
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: i already have a beer ;) but another one can't hurt, thanks :)
<JohnnyMast> hehe np
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ done im gonna upload the fixes
<JohnnyMast> uploaded ..
<JohnnyMast> lets wait till it shows up
<slomo_> it fails in pbuilder
<slomo_>         It seems your Python installation is missing the 'dev'-package.
<slomo_>         Please install it.
<JohnnyMast> checking ..
<slomo_> docbook2x-man debian/ttb.1.docbook
<slomo_> I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.2/docbookx.dtd
<slomo_> please call it with --nonet or how it was called ;)
<JohnnyMast> yeah i see it failing now on  - python-dev (>= 2.2)
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> please fix it :)
<JohnnyMast> i tought dep on  - python-dev (>= 2.2) is valid ?
<slomo_> it will the dev files for the default python... i.e. 2.4
<slomo_> when you need 2.2 b.d. on python2.2-dev
<JohnnyMast> and if i leave the version out and leave python-dev ?
<slomo_> the same
<slomo_> if you do python-dev (>= 2.2) it will just fail when there is a) no python-dev available or b) only python-dev with a version less than 2.2 is available
<JohnnyMast> well 2.4 is available
<JohnnyMast> 2.4.2
<JohnnyMast> ubuntu 2
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu Bugzilla bug #2: GNU Free Documentation License is non-free Product: Ubuntu, Component: glibc, Severity: normal, Assigned to: debzilla@ubuntu.com, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2
<slomo_> sure
<JohnnyMast> called python-dev
<JohnnyMast> no version in the package name
<slomo_> ok, what's the situation with your package?
<slomo_> does it need only python?
<slomo_> or a specific version?
<JohnnyMast> yes and gtk/glade
<JohnnyMast> no no specific version
<slomo_> depend on python-dev and python-gtk2 etc
<slomo_> or most probably only python, no python-dev
<JohnnyMast> but the old setup.py checked on >= 2.2
<JohnnyMast> so remove the () ?
<JohnnyMast> and just depend on the virtuall ?
<JohnnyMast> ile make it only depend on python-dev
<slomo_> if you have a version which is at least needed at this in the ()
<slomo_> but do you really need python-dev?
<JohnnyMast> thats what the site AND the setup.py sayed
<slomo_> ok
<JohnnyMast> ile remove the ()`s
<JohnnyMast> lol
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ there is no python-dev depend in control
<Hieronymus> I have made a package. How do I upload it to REVU?
<JohnnyMast> dput *.source.changes
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: nice :) add it when it's needed :P (you mean b-d, right?)
<JohnnyMast> b-d ?
<slomo_> build-depends
<JohnnyMast> yes yes
<JohnnyMast> i had it before until some one sayed its not needed
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-22
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ its uploaded
<JohnnyMast> lets wait until it shows up
<Hieronymus> Is there a good dput guide somewhere?
<JohnnyMast> man dput
<Seveas> on the wiki
<Seveas> somewhere in the MOTU section :)
<JohnnyMast> under REVU
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ its there now
<raphink> hmm
<raphink> would be good if REVU passed comments as GET instead of POST
<JohnnyMast> yes
<raphink> so it doesn't send it again when you refersh the page
<JohnnyMast> F5 produest a new post
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> yes
<JohnnyMast> if ur monitoring ur posts
<raphink> exactly
<raphink> so it needs to be GET
<JohnnyMast> we both had the same :)
<raphink> but sistpoty is not around
<raphink> JohnnyMast: all the time....
<raphink> I always post twice because of this
<JohnnyMast> raphink speaking of revu
<raphink> I post a comment and watch the evolution of the package
<JohnnyMast> there is one othe bug
<raphink> JohnnyMast: hehe
<raphink> what?
<JohnnyMast> a typo
<raphink> where?
<JohnnyMast> for example
<JohnnyMast> Package was uploaded from: anthony.mercatante@laposte.net
<JohnnyMast> its uploaded BY
<raphink> oh in REVU you mean
<raphink> yes
<raphink> we ought to collect all this for sistpoty
<JohnnyMast> well revu to mailing
<raphink> I filed bugs aswell
<raphink> about the fact that packagers can advocate their uploads
<raphink> and that index.* files are interpreted by apache which is not nice and could be avoided
<JohnnyMast> i have read the revu2 TODO
<JohnnyMast> and thats in there already
<raphink> good :)
<raphink> well the GET is really a must
<JohnnyMast> yeah man :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> I love open-source because often you don't have issues, you have solutions :)
<raphink> with proprietary software, you just have bugs
<raphink> with open-source, you have fixes :)
<JohnnyMast> yes you got that right
<raphink> and you can discuss with with guys about why it doesn't work
<JohnnyMast> not to mention mad ppl who use the software
<raphink> and how to fix it
<raphink> yes
<raphink> well there are mad people in open-source aswell
<raphink> but you can just tell them that if they're not happy
<slomo_> humans are mad by definition ;)
<raphink> they're
<raphink> 1) free to not use it
<raphink> 2) happily invited to fix
<JohnnyMast> well they are just A) twsted or B) blackhat
<JohnnyMast> i had a lot of B)
<JohnnyMast> lot of exposers on my prev devel
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> yes
* raphink remembers the first patches he used, without knowing how a patch worked
<JohnnyMast> those are not our kind of ppl
<JohnnyMast> they pic a bug and try every thing to make fun of the author
<JohnnyMast> and dont contact him
<raphink> patch to get all levels in Prince of Persia on Macintosh
<JohnnyMast> well yes they do but only when they made fun of him
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> well I'd reckon that blackhats can be very good hackers
<raphink> I remember having had to hack in assembly 68k
<raphink> a compiled program
<raphink> that's harder than hacking bash, perl or python
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> so when blackhats turn good eventually
<raphink> it's a great opportunity for us ;)
<JohnnyMast> raphink you dont have to be blackhat for that
<JohnnyMast> a 2600 hacker is white like kevin
<JohnnyMast> well
<JohnnyMast> no not kevin he was black
<raphink> lol
<JohnnyMast> but
<JohnnyMast> hacking a cellphone is easy enough for every one
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> or most small points cards they give when you buy fuel
<JohnnyMast> im hacking as well atm
<JohnnyMast> as in reverce engeneering
<JohnnyMast> for ubuntu
<JohnnyMast> a new project im trying to start
<raphink> oh nice
<raphink> what is that?
<JohnnyMast> the sony net hd walkman
<JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnnyMast/snwhd-1
<raphink> ooo
<raphink> sony :(
<JohnnyMast> ipod bleg
<JohnnyMast> better sony then an ipod
<raphink> hmm maybe
<JohnnyMast> besides ipod is nothing new but soo wanted
<JohnnyMast> i dont get it
<Hieronymus> just buy an ogg vorbis player
<raphink> yes
<Hieronymus> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/PortablePlayers
<raphink> iriver for example
<slomo_> for example some iriver player ;)
<raphink> or samsung
<raphink> yes
<raphink> kio-iriver powa :)
<JohnnyMast> you will be happy when i hack the damm device
<slomo_> what for? ;) mount them as normal ums device
<JohnnyMast> to me ?
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ ??
<raphink> JohnnyMast: no
<raphink> JohnnyMast: for iriver
<JohnnyMast> ok
<raphink> no need for kio
<slomo_> JohnnyMast: ?
<JohnnyMast> slomo_ ?
<slomo_> confusion  :P
<JohnnyMast> lol yeah well drop it :p
<raphink> JohnnyMast: !
<raphink> slomo_: !
<JohnnyMast> raphink ?
<JohnnyMast> :p
<JohnnyMast> im gonna play call of duty 2 in a few
<raphink> :)
<raphink> here is call of dirty
<raphink> but I'm too tired to clean
<JohnnyMast> any one intested playing over a vpn once (hence pirate software)
<raphink> no
<JohnnyMast> i cant use my key on public servers
<raphink> I'd rather play wesnoth
<JohnnyMast> wesnoth whats htat?
<JohnnyMast> also a war game ?
<Hieronymus> JohnnyMast: fantasy turn-based RPG
<JohnnyMast> like final fantacy ?
<JohnnyMast> ooh rpg
<JohnnyMast> ok guys the ttb package is updated have fun my fingers are itching to kill some germans
<JohnnyMast> i mean ww2 germans
<JohnnyMast> the bad
<raphink> yeah yeahj
<raphink> Hieronymus: do you play wesnoth?
<JohnnyMast_AFK> sleep well raphink and all the others
<raphink> thanks
<seth_k|lappy> you give really good comments on REVU packages, raphink :)
<raphink> thanks seth_k|lappy I do my best
<raphink> and I'm often wrong
<seth_k|lappy> hehe
<seth_k|lappy> do you have time to help me know how to solve one?
<seth_k|lappy> (of your comments)
<raphink> well as I'm eating maybe
<raphink> but after that I'll go to bed
<seth_k|lappy> haha
<raphink> cause I have to wake up in 5 hours and drive
<seth_k|lappy> no worries, some other time
<Hieronymus> raphink: sometimes
<raphink> that's terrible
<raphink> Hieronymus: ok :)
<seth_k|lappy> have a safe drive raphink, and I will ping you about it some other time :)
<raphink> seth_k|lappy: if you have just a few questions about what I mean or so
<raphink> I can explain now
<seth_k|lappy> well, with kat http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1177 I know how to handle all the comments except cleaning those Makefiles. I don't know how to do that.
<raphink> it's not the easier part
<raphink> what I'd suggest
<raphink> is to remove them in the clean rule in debian/rules
<raphink> with rm -f series
<raphink> then try to build twice
<raphink> to check if removing these files at clean doesn't affect build
<raphink> (if they are generated each time it's ok)
<raphink> if they aren't generated, then you need to call automake/autoconf manually
<raphink> either by using the DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_X flags (didn't work for me)
<raphink> or by restoring the makefiles running a make -f Makefile.cvs
<seth_k|lappy> okay, well I used this to remove them: find . -name "Automake.in" -exec rm {} \;
<raphink> so $(MAKE) -f Makefile.cvs to have it clean in debian/rules
<raphink> could be fine aswell seth_k|lappy
<raphink> the point is that once you have added the clean rule to remove them
<raphink> you should check
<raphink> 1) if the pb is solved :
<raphink> run debuild && debuild -S -sa
<raphink> and check the diff for files outside debian/
<seth_k|lappy> right
<raphink> 2) if the package builds twice (debuild without arguments)
<raphink> to be sure it doesn't remove files that cannot be regenerated
<raphink> or that would have to be regenerated manually
<raphink> in knmap, I had to add a pre-build rule in debian/rules
<raphink> to regenerate them
<raphink> it that enough clues to get to work ? ;)
<raphink> hi crimsun
<seth_k|lappy> hehe, I think so :) and I'm sure someone will help me if I can't get something
<seth_k|lappy> thanks again raphink
<crimsun> hi raphink
<crimsun> wow, xchat-gnome kicks the junk out of xchat
<raphink> you're welcome seth_k|lappy
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> when do they release xchat-kde ?
<crimsun> dunno ;)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> crimsun: do you have some time to look at one or two packages?
<crimsun> raphink: I will later tonight, heading out
<raphink> ok
<raphink> shall I leave you some urls ?
<raphink> yop Tonio_
<crimsun> raphink: just say them here and I'll check the irclog
<raphink> ok
<crimsun> cya later
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1105
<raphink> and
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1209
<raphink> :)
<crimsun> ok.
<Genosse_Darklord> Hi, any maintainer for the bzflag package in ubuntu here?
<Genosse_Darklord> or does anyone know, how to report a bug in this package?
<raphink> hi Genosse_Darklord && Amaranth
<raphink> Genosse_Darklord: malone
<Hieronymus> Genosse_Darklord: http://launchpad.net/malone/distros/ubuntu
<raphink> http://launchpad.net/malone
<Amaranth> hey
<Amaranth> Hieronymus: Is that your last name?
<Hieronymus> Genosse_Darklord: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bzflag/+filebug
<Hieronymus> Amaranth: what? Hieronymus ? No
<Amaranth> i know someone with that last name
<Hieronymus> My first name is Jeroen, but Jeroen Dekkers already registered that..
<hub> hi
<hub> who is daemon@poleboy.de
<slomo_> sistpoty
<raphink> and he's not only
<raphink> online
<raphink> well not here at least
<hub> because he left some comment on a package on REVU, and one of them, I have doubts.
<raphink> ok guys
<raphink> good night
<raphink> I'm going
<Hieronymus> good morning!
<Genosse_Darklord> later
<hub> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=840 <- the comment about the -dbg content that he did
<slomo_> hub: the /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libiptcdata.so.0.3.0 should be /usr/lib/libiptcdata.so.0.3.0
<slomo_> afaik
<slomo_> but better read about this in the policy
<hub> slomo: I'll read the policy, but it is a debug library, and the other debug library do that AFAIK
<hub> slomo_: I just check the other packaged. I'll re-read the policy anyway
<slomo_> anyway... gn8 everybody :)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<seth_k|lappy> when using the DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_blah variable in debian/rules, how can I install two manpages? (the .deb contains two binaries)
<crimsun> that looks like cdbs
<crimsun> normally with vanilla debhelper, you'd just pass the man pages as parameters to the dh_installman call in debian/rules
<crimsun> otherwise you can use debian/package.manpages
<seth_k|lappy> right, it's cdbs
<seth_k|lappy> yeah, this is a verrrry cdbs'd package; none of the dh_* calls are there
* seth_k|lappy will try putting them on the same line  la dh_installman and see if that works
<zakame> hi all!
<crimsun> re zak
<jdong> greetings
<zakame> hi crimsun
<zakame> hi jdong
* zakame does a lot of catching up, misses his desktop :(
<seth_k|lappy> is there anyone awake right now with access to tiber? One of my uploads failed in the middle, and now REVU is choking when I try to re-upload. And dcut'ing a .commands file apparently isn't working.
<crimsun> zakame: no need to proxy requests to elmo. In fact, he becomes rather displeased. Just ask for them.
<zakame> crimsun: oh, k. Will keep that in mind then ;)
<zakame> gtg, lunch :D
<crimsun> :)
<zakame> thanks again crimsun :)
<crimsun> no sweat :)
<Sepheebear> what configfile is responsible for giving the values of distribution?
<Sepheebear> when i edit a changelog, vi shows red if i put in "dapper" as the distribution
<Sepheebear> but if i put in "breezy" or "unstable" its fine
<minghua> Sepheebear: I believe you just need a newer version (the one in dapper, for example) of vim
<minghua> Sepheebear: vim (1:6.4-001+2ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low ... * Add 'dapper' to the list of supported distribution keywords.
<Sepheebear> ahh i wanna know where was that change was made, there has to be a config somewhere
<Sepheebear> but thanks at least now i know im looking at vim
<raphink> seth_k|lappy: you need to use dput -f or remove the .upload
<seth_k|lappy> raphink, I tried dput -f, no go
<raphink> did you try removing the .upload or renaming it?
<seth_k|lappy> how would I do that? I tried using dcut, but tiber doesn't appear to be set up to handle .commands
<seth_k|lappy> raphink, I get: Uploading via ftp kat_0.6.4-0ubuntu1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of kat_0.6.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
<seth_k|lappy> because my connection dropped mid-upload :P
<raphink> see with sistpoty about that when he's online seth_k|lappy
<seth_k|lappy> yeah, was what I planned. siretart though, isn't it?
<raphink> oh whoever ;)
<raphink> not me though ;)
<raphink> siretart would be able to help, too
<raphink> and dholbach aswell I believe
<seth_k|lappy> go on, ping them all why don't you :P
<seth_k|lappy> hehe
<raphink> but I think they're all europeans (as I am)
<raphink> and it's not really hacking time here ;)
<raphink> (as far as hacking time could be held at 6 AM)
<seth_k|lappy> ah well
<seth_k|lappy> I did fix all your comments on kat raphink :)
<seth_k|lappy> so it should be good to go
<raphink> ok that's good :)
<raphink> I'll have a look when I'm back
<raphink> in two days that is ;)
<raphink> unless you get it advocated before that
* seth_k|lappy rushes to get it uploaded before he gets more comments ;)
<raphink> haha
<raphink> well comments are not here as sanctions
<raphink> we don't want just good packages in ubuntu
<raphink> we want great ones ;)
<raphink> the better packages leave REVU
<raphink> and better packages get to NEW
<raphink> the better packages get in universe
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> I'm gone
<raphink> bye guys
<crimsun> 'night, back later.
<Sepheebear> anywhere know of a nice bzr how-to?
<ajmitch> Sepheebear: on bazaar.canonical.com ?
<Sepheebear> thanks ajmitch coudnt find one on the wiki
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> there ought to be at least 1 or 2 good tutorials on there
<ajmitch> last I looked there were
<Sepheebear> i was doing a title search
<ajmitch> http://bazaar.canonical.com/IntroductionToBzr is a start
<ajmitch> which I found on http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrDocumentation
<ajmitch> sigh, this box has rebooted about 5 times in the last 30 min
<ajmitch> damn overheating :(
<lifeless> heh
<jsgotangco> don't abuse it!
<lifeless> here, have my spare heat
<lifeless> we have tonnes
<ajmitch> no no, I've got more than enough heat for this computer
<jsgotangco> ciao
<\sh> moins
<jpatrick> any MOTUs around?
<ajmitch> maybe
* StevenK waves at ajmitch.
<jpatrick> ajmitch: I need one more person to look @ http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1214
<ajmitch> the 'maybe' being that it's midnight here :)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> ajmitch: How can I find out who is to blame for a sync?
<StevenK> wnn6-sdk 1.0.0-13 was synced, and it had no hope in high hell of building, but it was synced anyway.
(StevenK/#ubuntu-motu) By your reasoning I shouldn't even merge xemacs since emacs exists.
* StevenK applies that logic to other software, like Lintian and Linda.
(StevenK/#ubuntu-motu) Mithrandir: You know that argument is crap, but you still play the tune.
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-motu) StevenK: sorry, I'm bored. :-)
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-motu) and angry
(Mithrandir/#ubuntu-motu) I should just go an play ET or something
<StevenK> ET?
* StevenK is pondering making UT2k4 work under Ubuntu.
<StevenK> I'd play the PS2, but my wife and mother-in-law are watching a DVD.
<Mithrandir> enemy territory.
<StevenK> Ahhh
* StevenK puts Freenode back together again with slightly better quality sticky tape.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<thierry> I need to package something that uses ruby to build with stuff like "ruby install.rb config", cdbs can't help me there right?
<thierry> Kyral : I need to package something that uses ruby to build with stuff like "ruby install.rb config", cdbs can't help me there right?
<azeem> lifeless: do we really need debhelper (>= 5) for opensync?  It breaks building for breezy
<lifeless> azeem: the -dbg support
<lifeless> azeem: how does it break on breezy?
<slomo> breezy has only debhelper 4
<lifeless> meh.
<lifeless> slomo: you running breezy ?
<slomo> no
<lifeless> azeem: are you?
<azeem> yes
<lifeless> can you look at man debhelper
<azeem> I'll just backport it
<lifeless> see if it has compat level 5?
<azeem> btw, I think we need a Build-Depend on libtool
<lifeless> if it does, we can reduce the dependency
<lifeless> yes, we do
<azeem> it builds fine if I just loosen the Build-Depends
<azeem> let me check the -dbg package
<azeem> well, there are files in /usr/lib/debug
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> make it the debhelper you have or greater then ;0
<azeem> >= 4.9.0 might be fine, according to the changelog
<lifeless> not much point installing .la files for the plugins huh
<azeem> right
<azeem> I started packaging as well, btw
<lifeless> cool
<lifeless> I'm doing irmc at the moment
<azeem> I did evo, palm, file and irmc so far
<lifeless> oh, doh
<azeem> and multisync0.90
<lifeless> where are your packages? I want the file, evo & irmc ones :)
<seth_k|lappy> siretart, are you about? I have a half-uploaded file that is borking my revu upload that I need deleted :)
<seth_k|lappy> siretart, never mind, looks like somebody already handled it
<azeem> lifeless: I can upload the source package somewhere, I'm currently rebuilding against breezy to test
<siretart> seth_k|lappy: I did that earlier today, there is a kat upload currently in incoming
<lifeless> azeem: yes please!
<seth_k|lappy> siretart, thank you, sorry about that :)
<seth_k|lappy> reuploading now and it's working fine
<siretart> seth_k|lappy: the ftp server config is shit, I know. perhaps I should use something else than vs-ftpd
<seth_k|lappy> hehe
<azeem> lifeless: so I wonder what to do with the plugins WRT package deps
<azeem> lifeless: how about libopensync0 Recommends them all, and opensync also gets an empty meta-package libopensync-plugin-all, which Depends: on all?
<lifeless> azeem: I'm really not sure either
<azeem> ok, let's see how this opensync stuff works
<lifeless> azeem: package names
<lifeless> what do you think of opensync-plugin-* rather than libopensync-plugin-*
<lifeless> (they dont provide directly usable libraries themselves)
<azeem> sounds good
<lifeless> are you publish bzr branches of these ?
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> msynctool --listplugins
<lifeless> Available plugins:
<lifeless> file-sync
<lifeless> azeem: yay
<azeem> well, I don't get the GUI to work
<azeem> opening evo2-sync plugin
<azeem> Unable to find MSyncPlugin (evo2-sync)!!!
<lifeless> mmm
<lifeless> is that its gui plugin
<lifeless> or the opensync plugin?
<lifeless> (it looks like there are parallel plugins, one for the gui one for the engine
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> wow, the multisync-0.90 tarball includes object files
<lifeless> muahha
<lifeless> thats why I go from svn :)
<lifeless> much cleaner
<lifeless> oh eek
<lifeless> does cdbs do vpath builds and warnings on uninstalled files?
<azeem> vpath == build-out-of-srcdir?
<azeem> then yes
<lifeless> yes
<azeem> well, not by default
<lifeless> would you mind if we don't use cdbs ? It still feels far too magic to me
<lifeless> completely up to you, just asking
<azeem> haha, msynctool --configure S55 1 drops me in vi
<azeem> and presents some XML
<lifeless> yeah
<azeem> lifeless: sure
<lifeless> low-level :)
<azeem> hrm msynctool --sync segfaults
<lifeless> garh
<lifeless> ok, I have what looks roughly sane for a irmc w/o cdbs
<azeem> ok, I'll snatch your rules, and update the other plugins with it
<lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/opensync/plugin-irmc-0.18-debian-dir/
<lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/opensync/plugin-irmc-0.18/ <- the upstream I exported the tarball from
<lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/opensync/plugin-irmc-0.18-debian/ the debian dir itself
<lifeless> but give me a minute, I'll upload the literal files
<lifeless> god bless configure-in-diffs
<lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/opensync/packages/
<azeem> what did you have to change in configure.in?
<lifeless> in this case nothing, but svn does not have configure
<azeem> oh, ok.  I used their tarballs
<lifeless> (but it also does not have .o files :))
<azeem> ok, I need to go do some christmas shopping now
<azeem> laters
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> I'll see if the walkthrough works without segfaulting for me
<lifeless> works for me
<lifeless> msynctool --sync filefile
<lifeless> Synchronizing group "filefile"
<lifeless> Member 1 of type file-sync had an error while connecting: Unable to open directory /tmp/filefile
<lifeless> Member 2 of type file-sync had an error while connecting: Unable to open directory /tmp/filefile2
<lifeless> All clients have disconnected
<lifeless> The sync failed: Unable to connect one of the members
<lifeless> Error synchronizing: Unable to connect one of the members
<lifeless> and works with the dirs existing
<azeem> could well be irmc, I didn't change the configuration
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> I'll try irmc now
<lifeless> did you set irname ?
<lifeless> azeem: it ran
<lifeless> azeem: no segfault.
<lifeless> I had configured the plugin
<lifeless> night all
<lifeless> irmc is not crashing but not working
<lifeless> I think I need the gui to configur eit
<ogra> hmm, i would so like to know why willow needs python-profiler ...
<ogra> isnt a profiler only used for debugging ?
<siretart> ogra: what is willow?
<ogra> the coolest proxy i know ...
<ogra> small, quick and written in python ...
<Kyral> Morning
<ogra> it uses bayesian filtering instead of urllists, so no maintenance needed, its self learning
<ogra> i'D love to include it in main for edubuntu. but it depends on python-profiler and i dont know why ...
<JohnnyMast> hi TheMuso
<JohnnyMast> TheMuso would you like to review ttb ?
<shawarma> wtf.... I have start times in my ps output that are 35 in the future.
<shawarma> wow, it's quiet in here today.
<JohnnyMast> is every one out in the pub or something ?
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: getting ready for Christmas vacation ;-)
<JohnnyMast> wow cool can i join you ?
<LaserJock> not unless you come to NV, USA
<JohnnyMast> if you pay my trip :p
<JohnnyMast> then ile sign your key
<LaserJock> hmm, that almost sounds tempting ;-) but no I gotta pay for my trip so I'll be broke
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<JohnnyMast> any reviewer alive ?
<Treenaks> no, they all dropped dead when they saw your package
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<JohnnyMast> i saw you on the fosdem list
<JohnnyMast> just a sec ago
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<JohnnyMast> hi Gloubiboulga
<JohnnyMast> everything okey ?
<Gloubiboulga> well... I'll say yes :)
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> good to hear
<Gloubiboulga> hum, dpkg-buildpackage failed!...
<Gloubiboulga> I should have wait a little before answering you
<JohnnyMast> whats the building problem ?
<Gloubiboulga> it's a dpkg-source problem: unrepresentable changes to source
<Gloubiboulga> I was running debuils -S -sa, after the .deb build
<Gloubiboulga> debuild*
<JohnnyMast> aaah
<JohnnyMast> well then you added of deleted files
<JohnnyMast> they are mostly warnings
<Gloubiboulga> I've got several warnings like : dpkg-source: cannot represent change to obj/linux/main_widget.o: binary file contents changed
<Hieronymus> Gloubiboulga: does make clean work correctly?
<JohnnyMast> or maybe you did sudo debuild before
<Gloubiboulga> nop...
<Gloubiboulga> I have just seen why
<JohnnyMast> so you dont have permissions to get the changes working
<JohnnyMast> hmmm
<JohnnyMast> can you upload a buildlog in paste bin for us ?
<Gloubiboulga> I just have to change the order of 2 commands I think
<Gloubiboulga> I remove Makefile before running `make clean` in debian/rules
<Gloubiboulga> it's not a good idea ;)
<JohnnyMast> wait
<JohnnyMast> why dont you call distclean in clean ?
<JohnnyMast> instead of make clean ?
<JohnnyMast> (if you had it that way)
<Gloubiboulga> There's no rule in for makefile for distclean
<JohnnyMast> hmm thats a shame
<JohnnyMast> because that would work like a charm then only thing you had to remove where the stamps
<Gloubiboulga> I'll ask upstream to add this
<JohnnyMast> good good
<Gloubiboulga> it works fine now
<JohnnyMast> good news to hear :)
<Gloubiboulga> JohnnyMast, Hieronymus, thanks for your help
<JohnnyMast> Gloubiboulga come over when ever you like
<Gloubiboulga> I will :)
<JohnnyMast> oki
<Gloubiboulga> raphink helped me a lot these days on #ubuntu-fr
<Gloubiboulga> I really like the ubuntu spirit :D
<JohnnyMast> yes its a comunity, you dont see that any else where in an os
<JohnnyMast> well maybe firefly bsd
<JohnnyMast> my builder is bitching as well
<JohnnyMast> last time i had to patch setup.py
<Gloubiboulga> I'm uploading the source package on REVU
<JohnnyMast> awsome what are you packing ?
<Gloubiboulga> jargoninformatique
<Gloubiboulga> it's a french dictionary
<JohnnyMast> perl ?
<Gloubiboulga> nop
<Gloubiboulga> c++
<JohnnyMast> aaah right
<JohnnyMast> in doing a c++ package now as well
<JohnnyMast> on kryptor a package by my own team. wich is already in fedora and gentoo
<Gloubiboulga> congratulations :)
<JohnnyMast> Gloubiboulga thanks very much
<JohnnyMast> i cant access you package dir
<Gloubiboulga> same for me...
<JohnnyMast> how was that before
<JohnnyMast> was it always like this ?
<Gloubiboulga> I don't really know...
<Gloubiboulga> I'm sorry, I have to leave now...
<JohnnyMast> thats okey have fun this weekend
<Gloubiboulga> Thanks :)
<JohnnyMast> :)
<JohnnyMast> thats strange ... pbuilder cant find libx11-dev when downloading deps
<seth_k|lappy> sudo pbuilder update
<JohnnyMast> did that already, its fixed now
<JohnnyMast> but after it was download and installed i get this
<JohnnyMast> checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths!
<minghua> crimsun: ping
<crimsun> minghua: pong
<minghua> crimsun: just to give you an update on the rebuild status (libstdc++ transition) of scim related packages
<crimsun> ok
<minghua> crimsun: scim-tables was synced from unstable today
<minghua> scim-pinyin and scim-uim should have new debian upload in two weeks
<eruin> \sh_away, you're in dire need of new blogging software ;)
<crimsun> minghua: ok
<minghua> so if there is no urgent requests, the packages that needs rebuild uploads should be -anthy, -canna, -chewing, -prime, -skk and mlterm
<sistpoty> hi folks
<minghua> hi sistpoty
<crimsun> minghua: just strictly rebuilds and no other changes?
<minghua> crimsun: yes, because of the libstdc++ allocator c2->c2a transition
<minghua> crimsun: actually I don't know if MOTUs accepts such rebuild requests now
<crimsun> minghua: ok, do you want to provide debdiffs? They're fairly straight forward; otherwise I'll process them tonight
<crimsun> yeah, we just bump the version and reupload
<sistpoty> what packages are you talking about?
<minghua> crimsun: what about I providing debdiffs and you help upload them all (including -pinyin and -uim)?
<crimsun> minghua: sure
<minghua> crimsun: I would like to have scim stuff all working in dapper
<crimsun> sistpoty: scim-* in dapper being rebuilt
<minghua> siretart: scim related stuff, input methods
<sistpoty> ah, ok...
* sistpoty just wondered if some of the k* packages of the merge list could get dropped
<minghua> crimsun: I use malone to paste debdiffs, right?
<crimsun> minghua: yep
<sistpoty> merge list updated once again... 95->119 unassigned merges
<crimsun> sigh
<crimsun> I was proud of knocking it under 100, too. Gee thanks. ;)
<sistpoty> sorry crimsun ;)
<Hieronymus> If I want to be able to upload a packge to REVU, I e-mail keyring@tiber.tauware.de with a signed e-mail, right?
<Hieronymus> *package
<JohnnyMast> Hieronymus you need to send ur key number
<JohnnyMast> and upload your key to keyserver.ubuntu.com
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: are you jeroen van splunder?
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: didn't get my reply email?
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: no
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: I added you to revu's keyring, so you should be able to upload packages to revu
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: thank you
<sistpoty> np
* Hieronymus waits five minutes
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: did you send it a long time ago?
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: I sent it this afternoon
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: to jeroen-91_at_home.nl
<Hieronymus> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1232
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: weird
<sistpoty> what's weird? the package or that you didn't get the mail?
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: I can resend it, if you want
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: that I didn't get the mail
<sistpoty> ah
<\sh> moins
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<Kyral> yo
<sistpoty> \sh: how exactly did you want revu's list to be resorted?
<\sh> sistpoty: sorted by advocates and comments
<sistpoty> first criteria #advocates and 2nd num of comments... for specific upload only or for all uploads referring to a sourcepackage?
<\sh> sistpoty: I think of all uploads...so we can see on which package was worked more
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> and should I distinguish between new packages and updates for sorting?
<crimsun> personally, yes
<\sh> oh the i386 buildds are somewhat screwed today?
<\sh> sistpoty: would be cool
<crimsun> \sh: appears so
<\sh> sistpoty: so oldest package first :)
* sistpoty just tries to sort it out
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: "You don't have permission to access /revu1-incoming/bulldozer-0512171705/bulldozer_0.2.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes on this server."
* \sh sends da crackpipe to sistpoty 
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: the changes is only useful for the procedure of updating
<sistpoty> Hieronymus: and it shouldn't be accessible... e.g. I upload a source-package to revu, anyone could grab it and put it to ubuntu -> no access to changes
<Hieronymus> sistpoty: but REVU links to these things
<sistpoty> \sh: just that I got that right: 1st criteria: update/new... 2nd #advocates, 3rd #comments, 4th #age (fifo)
<\sh> Hieronymus: only for informational purposes
<\sh> sistpoty: yes..but advocates only on the latest upload :)
<sistpoty> ok... /me will need a beer for this :)
<\sh> sistpoty: lucky guy.../me had a half breakdown today
<sistpoty> oh... what happened?
<sistpoty> due to illness?
<\sh> think so...
<\sh> this morning after the guys from the heating system company left, I wanted to go out shopping...
<\sh> And lucky I am, I went down the stairs in front of my flat, and on the last step I was a bit dizzy
<sistpoty> oh... hope you'll recover soon, then
* sistpoty is out for a smoke now... brb
<\sh> and felt on my back..directly on the stairs...lucky that I didn't bang my head
<crimsun> hope you feel better soon, \sh
<sistpoty> ouch
<\sh> crimsun: I have to...I can't even focus sometimes...I really don't know what's up with me
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> \sh: hm, doesn't sound good
<\sh> ajmitch: i'm getting old and senile
<ogra> ???
<ogra> getting ?
<ogra> ;)
<\sh> ogra: thx :) I need that now :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> btw...ntfs (win xp formatted) and linux amd64?
<ogra> come on, we'Re the same age
<\sh> why can't I mount my external HD?
<\sh> ogra: yes...that's why I appreaciate your comment :)
<crimsun> \sh: what does dmesg|tail say regarding the attempt?
<\sh> crimsun: that it's mounted
<\sh> crimsun: but reading is not possible input/output error
<\sh> but it's readable with windows xp itself
<ajmitch> \sh: don't worry, I made a major life change yesterday
<ajmitch> gnome broke, so I'm using KDE
<crimsun> sounds like the error I'm having with a usb cdrw
<\sh> crimsun: well..same hd, diff. partition with reiserfs works like a charm :)
<\sh> ajmitch: hehe..you see...sometimes a cycle of >6months is more useful :)
<sistpoty> oh boy... the query for revu's list is 38 lines...
<crimsun> \sh: I'm not sure if you can force a journal replay and fsck the NTFS partition, but that's what I'd try first
<\sh> sistpoty: already normalized?
<\sh> crimsun: but the filesystem is clean...I checked with windows XP on my toshiba here
<sistpoty> \sh: what do you mean with normalized? the tables are normalized... that's just a sql statement
<\sh> sistpoty: but 38lines....
<\sh> that's a lot :)
<sistpoty> it is... but it's only half of it actually since it's a union statement of needwork/good packages
<\sh> crimsun: but i'm checking again with ntfsprogs
<\sh> crimsun: hmm...how do I do a ntfs fsck on linux...
<crimsun> \sh: not sure, never done it before
<crimsun> ah, ntfsfix(8)
<crimsun> well, it doesn't do everything in Linux per se
<\sh> jepp
<\sh> well..so I backup the drive tomorrow with windows xp
<\sh> oergs
<\sh> aka "I hate it"
<\sh> oh and btw...the exorcism of emily rose --> watch it :)
<ajmitch> there is a way to force a chkdsk in xp
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, I saw it a few weeks ago
* ajmitch had a box where the partitioning in the ubuntu installer would silently fail
<ajmitch> I had to go to the console to see that there were ntfs errors
<\sh> ajmitch: in xp yes..but not in linux :)
<\sh> ajmitch: I have always problems with ntfs partitions from win xp prof.
<minghua> ajmitch: how is gnome broken?
<ajmitch> ntfs is always a problem
<ajmitch> minghua: panel was hanging, etc
* minghua just finished aptitude upgrade and is afraid to restart X now :-(
<lifeless> azeem: around ?
<crimsun> minghua: fwiw, I killed gdm before I joined, and everything seems to work here
<\sh> ogra: btw...did you buy now a mac ?
<ogra> nope, not yet
<ogra> you ?
<minghua> crimsun: Thanks.  I didn't upgrade panel stuff, so I think I am fine.
<\sh> ogra: me? no...don't have the money :)
<\sh> ogra: but there is an apple cube for 405 eur on ebay
<ajmitch> minghua: mine hadn't been restarted since breezy or so
<\sh> or ibook g4 for 441
<ogra> dircet buy ?
<ogra> *direct
<ajmitch> minghua: and some of my troubles were also due to the computer having rebooted due to overheating ;)
<lifeless> wooo
<ajmitch> morning lifeless
<lifeless> ola!
<\sh> ogra: no
<ogra> so how long to go for each one ?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-23
<minghua> aptitude is really giving me a headache
<lifeless> wow
<\sh> ogra: the cube 21h
<lifeless> multisync 0.90.18 really is experimental
<ajmitch> it wipes all your data?
<lifeless> it ignores deletes on the phone
<lifeless> can't configure the irmc plugin
<ogra> \sh, expect it to go over 1000 then ...
<minghua> amazon US is actually selling iBook G4 at $900, not sure about europe though
* minghua noticed that gucharmap is categorized in Accessibility menu now
<ogra> in europe you get the cheapest around 1000
* \sh goes to bed again...headache starts
<\sh> night guys
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem ping
<minghua> crimsun: bug #5888 is the first package for scim rebuild.  I'll work on others tonight and tomorrow
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5888: scim-canna: package needs rebuild against libscim8c2a In: Ubuntu, Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5888
<crimsun> minghua: ok
<ajmitch> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> so
<lifeless> opensync 0.18
<lifeless> I packaged that version thinking that tracking releases would be a good idea
<lifeless> I'm not sure that that is the case :[
<ajmitch> but no..
<ajmitch> the release is broken?
<lifeless> fooked
<minghua> crimsun: I believe you prefer my sending all debdiffs to you together instead of bugging you for each package :-)
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> do they test it at all before releasing?
<lifeless> its not that
<lifeless> its that its a noticable step back from multisync - lots of things broken in the rearchitecture FWICT
<crimsun> minghua: either way
<lifeless> I'm just tracking down a bug in irmc for instance
<ajmitch> that's quite unfortunate - I thought they were trying to fix what was lacking
<lifeless> 0 length vcal files are reported as 'modified'
<ajmitch> yes, I saw in the channel
<sistpoty> revu new world order is done :)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: revu2 is finished? ;)
<minghua> One question: is MoM clever enough to knwo that -XbuildY version doesn't have sourceful changes and sync them automatically?
<ajmitch> minghua: yes
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no only sorting the list for revu 1
<ajmitch> minghua: that's why we use that - it only looks at -XubuntuY
<minghua> cool, then I don't need to babysit scim-m17n in dapper
<lifeless> ajmitch: the ui to configure irmc is awol
<minghua> ajmitch: thanks.  I thought that would be the whole point of differing -XubuntuY and -XbuildY suffices
<lifeless> ajmitch: it *looks* to me like their split into parallel hiearchies was not done preserving the old functionalit
<lifeless> y
<ajmitch> lifeless: it was a ground-up rewrite
<ajmitch> and they're filling in the pieces as needed?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> definately a lot of old code there, the copyrights tell the tale
<lifeless> I think it was a hacknslash job to the new framework
<lifeless> and devil take the hindmost
<lifeless> that bugs in HEAD anyway, whew
<ajmitch> that's a good thing?
<lifeless> yes, it means I don't have to backport a fix on an active project
<scotth> I'm curious, how do people here upgrade their packages to new upstream versions.  Do you apply the diff or move the debian dir over or start from scratch or is there some automated tool for this?
<sistpoty> scotth: uscan/uupdate can automate this process
<scotth> sistpoty, thanks
<sistpoty> scotth: and if you don't use that, it's usually a good idea to move the debian dir over, as more things will stay the same then will change
<minghua> scotth: and maybe consider making all debian/ubuntu specific changes into patches, so all the .diff.gz is limited in debian/ dir
<lifeless> for an alternative, I put everyine in bzr
<lifeless> then a new upstream is just a new commit in the upstream branch, and a merge.
<ajmitch> lifeless: how do you handle moved files in upstream?
<ajmitch> you untar new upstream tarball, copy over .bzr?
<lifeless> ajmitch: I untar the tarball if the upstream does not use vcs.
<lifeless> ajmitch: then check status etc and adjust, the commit
<lifeless> ajmitch: but if the upstream uses vcs, its easier still ;)
<ajmitch> certainly
<ajmitch> but then you don't have an orig.tar.gz that matches upstream, which can be a little annoying
<lifeless> I guess thats another reason I largely ignore tarballs for packaging
<minghua> hmm, maybe I should do the same thing
<lifeless> meh
* minghua wonders if svk can do what lifeless discribed
<lifeless> the number of upstreams that release 'orig' tarballs we cant directly use is growing not decreasing
<minghua> my upstream used CVS and all my debian packaging stuff is in SVN now
<lifeless> -> autoconf dependencies & configure or makefile bugs
<ajmitch> lifeless: we've just run into a few issues where debian & ubuntu have packaged a new upstream version separately, with differing tarballs
<ajmitch> makes syncing a real pain
<lifeless> -> included inappropriate files such as object or GFDL files
<ajmitch> that one is annoying
<scotth> sistpoty, how do you create a watchfile if none is provided upstream?
<lifeless> ajmitch: yeah, I can imagine. Fortunately, as I can't upload to ubuntu yet, that won't happen ;)
<sistpoty> scotth: just look at "man uscan"... good source for examples
<scotth> lol, of course
<minghua> speaking of modifying .orig.tar.gz, what is the conventional way to deal with .tar.bz2 only upstream?
<minghua> just bunzip2 and gzip it?
<lifeless> yes.
<lifeless> unless its insanely big
<lifeless> in which case ... evil happens
<scotth> is there a good way to find out if a package has a motu maintainer?
<ajmitch> most packages in universe don't have a motu that is caring for that specific one
<ajmitch> there are some teams that do
<lifeless> opensync-debian-team rah rah rah
<minghua> I was wondering about that as well
<ajmitch> mono team, etc
<minghua> it would be nice to have some way to indicate a universe package get more love than others
<minghua> which means some MOTU/MOTU-wannabe is building and testing it
<crimsun> grep the output from dapper-changes and pipe it through wc -l? ;)
<minghua> instead of just simplying syncing/merging from sid
<minghua> crimsun: not a bad idea... :-)
<scotth> well I'm interested in gajim, ejabberd, and a few other jabber related things.  I notice that gajim is listed in launchpad.net and has a registrant.  Does that mean it has a maintainer kinda?
<ajmitch> scotth: for that, there's the MOTU IM team
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUIM
<ogra> scotth, just look who touched it last (changelog) for any package, and talk to this guy if he cares personally, but in general we dont have any personalized packages
<scotth> ahh
<scotth> makes sense
<ogra> most is done in teams here ... no "maintainers" like debian has
<scotth> actually it looks like I might want to join MOTUIM
<scotth> it looks to be right up my alley
<ogra> indeed there are people that care more for certain packages ...
<scotth> is it acceptable to add my name to that team in the wiki or should I contact the people listed?
<ogra> do both ;)
<scotth> cool
<lifeless> ajmitch: azeem: anyway, I think we need to upload multisync 0.90 in parallell with 0.8x
<lifeless> for a while yet
<lifeless> tchau - yum cha time
<Riddell> blurg, skim fails to build and I can't work out why or recreate it
<Riddell> /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch
<Riddell> make: Nothing to be done for `binary-arch'.
<desrt> sistpoty; i talked to the debian upstream guy about ghc.  as it turns out, someone reported the bug that the patch fixes against debian so he plans on integrating the patch (probably not until after the holidays, though)
<sistpoty> desrt: thx... I just check timetable when upstreamversion-freeze will be for dapper
<desrt> ah.  right.
<eruin> is the maintainer of linphone around?
<desrt> having a working ghci on powerpc is decidedly in my interests so i'd definitely advocate including the patch for ourselves if debian isn't fast enough :)
<minghua> hi Riddell, is the build log somewhere?
<Riddell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/skim/1.4.3-0ubuntu3/skim_1.4.3-0ubuntu3_20051217-2251-powerpc-failed.gz
<eruin> if liblinphone1 depends on libjack0.100, but liblinphone1-dev depends on libjack0.100 - should I file a bug?
<Riddell> eruin: why, that's the same thing?
<eruin> well, that makes liblinphone1-dev uninstallable
<eruin> oh, my mistake,. liblinphone1-dev depends on libjack0.80 ;)
<sistpoty> desrt: we have uvf on jan 19. So i guess it will be better, if I include the patch soon... I still have the possibility to go in sync with debian later on
<eruin> poor typing this late
<sistpoty> desrt: where can I find your patch? in BTS?
<desrt> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=343428
<sistpoty> desrt: cool, thx. will care for it during next week
<desrt> sistpoty; most excellent.  thanks.
<sistpoty> np
<Riddell> eruin: looks like a beastie!  I'm taking a look
<eruin> Riddell, thanks mate :)
<Riddell> eruin: uploaded, keep an eye on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/linphone/ to make sure it compiles
* eruin locks eyelids in their upright position
<sistpoty> Riddell: I just take a look at skim (ubuntu2) and its rules
<Riddell> sistpoty: see anything revealing?
<minghua> sistpoty: do you mean 0ubuntu3?
<sistpoty> Riddell: if I get it right, you should have a target binary-arch... binary should depend on binary-arch
<ajmitch> sistpoty: see changelog for 0ubuntu3
<sistpoty> minghua: no, I guess my sources are outdated
<ajmitch>   * Add fake rule in debian/rules on binary-arch
<minghua> sistpoty: Riddell added an empty binary-arch target in debian/rules, but it didn't seem to help
* sistpoty looks at updated package
<minghua> I was thinking maybe binary-arch should depend on binary-common or something
<minghua> I'm building skim -0ubuntu3 in pbuilder right now
<sistpoty> compared to dh_make templates and policy hints, binary should depend on binary-arch and binary-indep
<sistpoty> however binary-arch is optional according to the policy... maybe sbuild is wrong there
<sistpoty> args... no binary-arch must exist (according to policy) and always succeed (even if it has nothing to do)
<ajmitch> which is why you often see an empty rule
<minghua> sistpoty: you were looking at build-arch, weren't you? ;-)
<sistpoty> yes
<minghua> yikes, scons sends color terminal control code to its log
<Kyral> scons...
<Kyral> *shudder*
<ogra> sistpoty, but thats a silly and very debianish part of the policy, the ubuntu buildds are more tolerant ...
<sistpoty> hehe
<ogra> i have some "non policy compliant" ubuntu only packages where i tipped it out
<ogra> *riped
<ogra> grrr
<ogra> *rpped
<sistpoty> the only thing that looks odd with rules, is that phony targets are not listed in .PHONY
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> r i p p e d
<ogra> phew
* StevenK screams at imake and rips his hair out.
* StevenK screams at autoscan and rips his hair out.
* StevenK screams at wnn6-sdk in general and rips his hair out.
* ogra hands StevenK a broom
<minghua> StevenK is probably going to be bold pretty soon... :-P
<StevenK> I'm already bold. :-P
<StevenK> ITYM bald. :-)
<minghua> yeah, I meant bald
<minghua> StevenK: thanks for correcting, I was actually not sure and looking it up
<StevenK> minghua: I suspect you can usually speak English better than I can. :-)
<StevenK> It may be my first language, but I still suck at it. :-)
<minghua> Riddell: I got exactly the same error with "pbuilder build --binary-arch skim_1.4.3-0ubuntu3.dsc"
<minghua> Riddell: so probably the buildd is right
<Riddell> hmm, right
* StevenK wonders how to break open a locked computer case.
<minghua> hammer? :-P
<ajmitch> drill & hacksaw
<Kyral> screwdriver?
<StevenK> Kyral: No screws, only a lock.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ouch.
<ajmitch> drill out the lock
<StevenK> Tried that.
<Kyral> yah I concur with ajmitch
<Kyral> nm
<ajmitch> ah :(
<Kyral> Blowtorch?
<StevenK> Well, I drilled a hole in the lock, is that the same thing?
<sistpoty> ok... /me needs to go to bed now
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<ajmitch> that's usually how it's done
<ajmitch> drill out the centre of it so that it can open
<StevenK> And I think I bent the bit doing it.
<ajmitch> night sistpoty
<minghua> Riddell: I _think_ having binary-arch depending on binary-common would solve it
<minghua> it looks like a -B build will only call binary-arch, not binary
<minghua> the debian/rules of skim doesn't look very professional anyway
<eruin> I wonder why my computer loves crashing/overheating so much when I compile gaim
<eruin> or rather, ./configure it
<LaserJock> if a file is installed from a package it can be found by dpkg -S right?
<minghua> LaserJock: only if it's in the package's .list file (i.e., not installed by postinst script, etc.)
<LaserJock> minghua: ahhh, can I find it if it is isn't in the .list file?
<minghua> and sometimes symlinks confuse dpkg -S as well
<minghua> LaserJock: the .list file is in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ if you installed it :-)
<eruin> Riddell, linphone_1.1.0-2ubuntu2_20051218-0047-i386-given-back.gz
<minghua> LaserJock: I don't know how...  probably looking at the postinst script?
<eruin> Riddell, doesn't look too healthy, the poor thing
<Riddell> eruin: the i386 buildds seem to be in a mood to do that today
<eruin> Riddell, all work, no fun ;-)
<LaserJock> minghua: there are posinst script in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ so maybe it's there. I just need to track down where a particular file got installed from
<minghua> LaserJock: ah.  I was thinking you just want to know _if_ a certain file is from a certain package, now you want to know _whick package_ it is from...  that's harder :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, there is a file that is creating a bug and nobody knows where it comes from
<minghua> LaserJock: maybe first try "readlink -f file" to get rid of symlink problem first?
<minghua> LaserJock: bug nubmer?
<LaserJock> bugzilla 20183
<minghua> where is our friend Ubugtu now?
<minghua> Ubugtu: ubuntu 20183
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu Bugzilla bug #20183: firefox 1.4.99 upgrade still have compreg.dat, creates issue Product: Ubuntu, Component: firefox, Severity: normal, Assigned to: iwj@ubuntu.com, Status: NEW https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20183
<Riddell> minghua: seems to have done the trick thanks
<minghua> Riddell: no problem.  thank *you* for working on skim :-)
<Riddell> well it was freeflying
<minghua> Riddell: yeah, but you are the sponsor :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: didn't comment #22 say it was shipped in mozilla-firefox 1.0.7?
<Riddell> looks like I need to rebuild all the scim modules
<minghua> LaserJock: oh never mind, I see comment #25 now
<minghua> Riddell: for what reason?  I am working on the libstdc++ allocator transition rebuild right now
<Riddell> minghua: oh, if you're doing it that's all good then
<minghua> Riddell: if for skim support, then rebuild won't help
<minghua> Riddell: yes, and crimsun is sponsoring me :-)
<Riddell> ah good
<Riddell> it's really good having CKJ types involved
<minghua> Riddell: did freeflying say anything about the .orig.tar.gz inconsistancy to you?
<minghua> Riddell: I met him on IRC a few days ago and he said he is waiting for William uploading it to debian now
<minghua> Riddell: but he didn't say anything about my comments
<Tonio_> good night
<minghua> now I am finally getting this scim-setup segfault myself.
<LaserJock> any MOTUs willing to do a quick review?
<bmonty> LaserJock: what kind of review?
<LaserJock> REVU review
<bmonty> which package?
<LaserJock> plotdrop
<LaserJock> minghua: do you use gnuplot?
<minghua> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> you might like this package I've got on revu, plotdrop. You can drag n drop data files into it and plot them with gnuplot
<LaserJock> it's pretty cool
<LaserJock> the homepage is at http://icculus.org/~jcspray/plotdrop/
<minghua> LaserJock: sounds cool. thanks
<LaserJock> and the author is an Ubuntu user so that is cool to ;-)
<LaserJock>  bmonty: a .desktop file is intalled
<bmonty> ahh, I see it now :)
<LaserJock> so I don't need to keep the comments at the top?
<bmonty> LaserJock: nope...you only need the first line
<bmonty> the rest of the comments don't really apply IMO
<LaserJock> what about # -*- makefile -*-
<LaserJock> does that do anything?
<bmonty> no
<minghua> LaserJock: that's for emacs IIRC
<bmonty> even more reason to remove it :)
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> ok, uploaded
<LaserJock> bmonty: not an emacs fan?
<bmonty> LaserJock: its not my favorite editor
<LaserJock> bmonty: so do you like vim better or something else?
<bmonty> I personally like vim better than emacs
<LaserJock> I started out with emacs but I am starting to get used to vim. I have to force myself to use each one for a few days at a time. I am getting better at both that way.
<LaserJock> sweet, thanks bmonty
<bmonty> np
<bmonty> LaserJock: plotdrop builds here, I got a couple errors with piuparts but no files that your package touches
<JohnnyMast> any one interested in looking @ ttb (revu)
<LaserJock> bmonty: ahh, yeah. I need to get piuparts going. I haven't tried that out yet
<bmonty> you have a pbuilder, right?
<JohnnyMast> bmonty wasnt it you wo also looked at ttb ?
<JohnnyMast> hey lukas
<bmonty> JohnnyMast: maybe :)
<JohnnyMast> bmonty well i have made my fixes
<lukas> hey JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> :D
<LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, I have pbuilder and dchroot, but I haven't bothered to get piuparts going yet
<JohnnyMast> welcome back home lukas
<bmonty> LaserJock: you can use your pbuilder chroot with piuparts check out the -p or -b options
<LaserJock> bmonty: sweet, good to know. I will look into that
<minghua> crimsun: what I have done tonight is in malone 5894, 5895 and 5896
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5894: chewing (Ubuntu) - scim-chewing: needs rebuild against libscim8c2a In: scim-chewing (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5894
<minghua> crimsun: but scim-uim (5896) has some other bug, so you may want to delay that upload, please see my comments on malone
<minghua> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> minghua: ok
<crimsun> I'll look at 589[45]  then
<JohnnyMast> punkrockguy318 nice nick :)
<punkrockguy318> JohnnyMast, thank you =D
<JohnnyMast> ur a punk rocker ?
* JohnnyMast listens to bad religion
<JohnnyMast> and Johnny cash ... ring of fire
<minghua> crimsun: is it okay to close the bug even if scim-canna hasn't been built on i386 yet? ;-)
<JohnnyMast> while ur asking crimsun: (and hes gone)  i do advise you to wait
<minghua> JohnnyMast: oh sure
<JohnnyMast> but then again its just an advise
<zakame> lunchtime all :D
<JohnnyMast> luchtime ??
<JohnnyMast> its 5 at night man
<JohnnyMast> :p
<zakame> er its 12 noon here :P
<JohnnyMast> oh in that case, i would like one sandwitch with cheese please
<JohnnyMast> neh ile make it my self and head to bed
* zakame gives JohnnyMast a cheese sandwich
<JohnnyMast> mmm thanks man :)
<zakame> JohnnyMast: rock on :)
<JohnnyMast> :D
<JohnnyMast> alright im gone, MOTU`s sand hopefulls sleep well
<zakame> gn8 JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> gn
<Kyral> Goodnight MOTU
<zakame> gn8 Kyral
<zakame> bye all
<LaserJock> azeem: ping?
<zakame> hey all
<minghua> hi zakame, welcome back :-)
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<pef> Gloubiboulga: salut :)
<Gloubiboulga> salut pef :)
<sivang> morning all
<Gloubiboulga> hello sivang
<greenpenguin13> would someone mind fixing bug #21126 please? ive tried myself, but... :-p
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #21126: Bug does not exist
<Gloubiboulga> greenpenguin13, gnomemeeting just needs a rebuild I think
<sivang> #21126
<greenpenguin13> i will have a peek...
<siretart> morning
<greenpenguin13> afternoon
<lifeless> azeem: around ?
<herve> hello
<zakame> hello herve
<azeem> lifeless: hey
<tseng> anyone on ppc64?
<thierry> with debhelper, how can I put the configure thing before cleaning??
<azeem> why do you need that?
<StevenK> Presumably clean is running make clean with no Makefile.
<thierry> StevenK , azeem : well it's because it's a ruby building apps, so when I do "ruby install.rb clean" before "ruby install.rb config" it complains that he needs to run config before
<thierry> azzem , StevenK : so any idea how I could do that?
<StevenK> Add a - to ruby install.rb clean so it's non-fatal.
<StevenK> "-ruby install.rb clean"
<thierry> yeah but where?
<StevenK> debian/rules
<thierry> ho ok sorry
<thierry> I get this dh_testdir
<thierry> # Add here commands to compile the package.
<thierry> ruby install.rb setup
<thierry> install.rb config first
<thierry> Try 'ruby install.rb --help' for detailed usage.
<thierry> make: *** [build-stamp]  Error 1
<thierry> debuild: fatal error at line 765:
<thierry> dpkg-buildpackage failed!
<thierry> ho ok I see why, forget this
<JohnnyMast> good afternoon
<JohnnyMast> is the maintainer of kdetv here ?
<Riddell> JohnnyMast: hi
<JohnnyMast> Riddell hi
<Riddell> not sure who that is but it's a KDE package so it's probably my fault
<JohnnyMast> well i just wanted to ask one question
<JohnnyMast> i have the same setup in configureing and makefiles
<JohnnyMast> and they where also created with kdevelop but it install in /usr/local/bin
<JohnnyMast> and thats bad when developing a ubuntu package so im wondering what kdetv does
<Riddell> JohnnyMast: --prefix=/usr  for ./configure
<JohnnyMast> well thats not it ... and yes i know that hack
<Riddell> it's not a h
<Riddell> it's not a hack, it's how all
<JohnnyMast> but thats not supposed to be needed
<Riddell> automake programs work
<Riddell> JohnnyMast: the kdetv package uses cdbs which will specify the --prefix for ./configure
<azeem> JohnnyMast: it is needed because programs usually default to /usr/local for prefix
<azeem> which is fine for locally compiled and installed softwre
<JohnnyMast> azeem yes for native packages
<JohnnyMast> but not for OS software
<JohnnyMast> installed via .deb packages
<azeem> right, that's why we do --prefix=/usr
<azeem> it's not a hack, it is how it is supposed to be
<JohnnyMast> i was just wondering the if maintainer took (ubuntu maintainer) care of that else he/she had to use --prefix=/usr
<Riddell> --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var
<Riddell> or maybe --sysconfdir=/etc/kde3
<Riddell>  --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt3 --disable-rpath --with-xinerama
<JohnnyMast> Riddell its good to know you know your stuff. Makes reviewing a heck of a lot easyer
<JohnnyMast> some one fixing gnomemeeting already if not leave it to me
<ogra> you fix main packages ?
<JohnnyMast> ow its main ?
<siretart>  (I'm speaking of packages which don't exist in Debian yet).
<siretart> sry. didn't want to paste
<buxy> siretart: hehe, I've seen that you've read my mail then :)
<siretart> buxy: sorry? which mail?
<buxy> siretart: the one that you pasted
<siretart> buxy: aah, that mail. of course :)
<siretart> ah, so you are raphael, nice to meet you :)
<buxy> siretart: nice to meet you too :)
<siretart> buxy: that email is very interesting and promising stuff. I'm currently thinging how to get the most of it. for both debian and ubuntu
<buxy> siretart: Yeah, I would love to be able to set a "nice precedent" of successfull collaboration between Ubuntu and Debian :)
<siretart> buxy: that would be really really great.
<siretart> I'm still thinking about a few details
<thierry> whats means : old-fsf-address-in-copyright-file ?
<ogra> thierry, what it says ...
<thierry> what's an old-fsf-adress ?
<buxy> siretart: just tell me what you're thinking...
<ogra> f-s-f == free software foundation
<buxy> thierry: use "lintian-info" to have more verbose information about the message
<ogra> thierry, they moved ...
<buxy> ogra: that's the right answer, explaining people how to learn themselves :)
<siretart> buxy: if I understand you correctly, then you want to have something like REVU, but what is also a frontend to a more or less public svn archive, yes?
<siretart> buxy: and I'm currently think if and how this could be implementable
<ogra> buxy, true ... but some background knowledge might help as well :)
<buxy> siretart: yes, a public svn repo, where the mentors can directly work on their packages
<buxy> ogra: of course
<siretart> buxy: do you think we can place that on alioth? or shall we use another server for that?
<buxy> and where the reviewers can see the history and the evolution of the package in the hands of the "applicant"
<ogra> siretart, hmm, doenst the launchpad supermirror offer that anyway
<buxy> siretart: I'm an alioth admin, so yes we can use alioth if needed
<ogra> so you'd only need a branch script that puts it on alioth
<buxy> ogra: any pointer to that "supermirror" thingy ?
<ogra> no idea, we were shown it live at ubz, i dont know where the specs for it are
<siretart> buxy: the 'supermirror' is a service provided by canonical, which imports public cvs and svn repositories to bzr archives
<ogra> in general its a huge centralized bzr archive of the whole world on launchpad
<siretart> buxy: you know, I designed REVU so that newbees can see how uploading with dput works.
<siretart> but I see what you try to acheive with svn, so thats promising
<siretart> buxy: have you thought about hacking up something based on trac?
<buxy> siretart: we can still have an associated "binary repositorie" so that people can upload those with dput ... and test their tool
<siretart> buxy: revu does only accept sourceful only uploads, just like the ubuntu archive
<siretart> binary uploads are ignored
<ogra> but with elma we'll also have binarys there ...
<ogra> so debian could grab them
<siretart> we rather want buildlogs than binaries
<buxy> siretart: we can have a two-way working: either work directly in svn, or work at home and upload with dput and then a script injects it into svn
<siretart> and debian would want to have them rebuild by a 'trusted' DD anyway
<ogra> yes, but its a side effect, we wont need but we could keep them for debian
<buxy> ogra: elma ?
<ogra> s/need/need them/
<siretart> buxy: thats sounds promising. so nobody is actually forced to use svn
<ogra> buxy, elmo automated ;)
<ogra> buxy, our automatic buildd admin for revu2
<siretart> buxy: elma is a bad joke about a script, which we want to use for the next version of revu. It will build uploaded packages and attach the buildlog to the detail page
<buxy> ok nice
<ogra> siretart, i oppse the bad in the above sentence .... its a tribute ;)
<ogra> *oppose
<ogra> or a praise :)
<siretart> ogra: you're right :)
<siretart> buxy: well, my current project and plan is to get this one implemented: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec
<siretart> buxy: and I think having an svn under the hood should be achievable
<buxy> Yes I've seen your spec already
<buxy> it's quite good
<siretart> buxy: the current plan is to use launchpad for authentication, though. I'm pretty sure that many DDs will object in using launchpad
<buxy> Right, I wanted to mention that ... if you could factorize that part of the code in a easily replaceable module, that would be cool
<siretart> but hacking around the authentication part shouldn't be that hard. revu2 is already quite modular (thanks to sistpoty!)
<siretart> buxy: only one class would have to be rewritten, not that much of trouble
<buxy> How do you handle all the stuff requiring root rights ?
<buxy> I mean recompiling a package is not a trivial task ...
<siretart> buxy: sudo
<buxy> in particular since the package cannot be really trusted.
<siretart> buxy: we won't do anything which needs root rights automatic
<siretart> buxy: rebuilds are semi automatic, so a human needs to do a first check first. then he is able to request a build
<buxy> siretart: do you plan to generate a history associated to an applicant ?
<buxy> I mean so that you can easily review the evolution of someone when you must decide if he deserves to be MOTU/DD ?
<siretart> buxy: there will be an overview page listing all sourcepackages he contributed
<siretart> based on the information in the database
<buxy> in that part it would be nice to be able to come back to "svn commits" they made, or come back to changelog of uploads they made
<buxy> as well as comments of reviewers associated to those "uploads"
<ogra> but we look into -changes anyway if we review someones application for MOTUship at the TB
<siretart> buxy: ah, I see what you mean
<ogra> there is no detailed review of someones single packages
<ogra> that would cost to much time ...
<ogra> usually the persons who worked with him get asked to give an opinion on his collaboration and packaging skills
<buxy> ogra: keep in mind that Debian has different opinion on what needs to be reviewed before accepting someone for DD
<ogra> i know
<buxy> ogra: in Debian also we ask the opinion of the sponsor
<ogra> as we do ...
<buxy> but if we can handle the complicated case, you can still decide based on what you want :)
<ogra> but note that we dont have a single sponsor for a MOTU hopeful
<siretart> buxy: well, the expected workflow of an applicant is, that he mainly tries to get 'his' packages into shape. so for completely new packages, I didn't notice any 'group maintenance' in the past
<ogra> only group reviews ...
<buxy> siretart: I see more and more projects on alioth to start packaging new apps in team mode (from the beginning)
<siretart> buxy: so the workflow described in the Revu Spec is based on what we have seen while running revu1
<buxy> siretart: I understand that, that's why I started this discussion now,
<siretart> buxy: which is a good thing, I think
<buxy> so that we can see bit further and create something usefule for more people and which will last longer
<siretart> buxy: yes, I think get what you want.
<siretart> buxy: summary: this 'group maintenance' workflow what you propose is imo very promising, but it doesn't fit 100% in the workflow process which we desinged for revu
<ogra> or into the MOTU process ...
<siretart> I think I should think a bit more about how 'group maintenance' could be clarified, and write some lines about that
<ogra> even if we have teams, the teams still dont *own* any packages in ubuntu
<siretart> I think what buxy actually wants is to 'track' 'contributions'
<siretart> which we actually want too
<siretart> but a 'contribution' in the model of 'group maintenance' is a bit more fine granular
<ogra> that enables us to keep a low entry threshold for MOTU hopefuls, most stuff you learn, you learn by doing, and the non personalized package approach we have allows you to make mistakes, since someone else can quickly pick your broken package and fix it without begging for NMU rights ...
<siretart> buxy proposes to identify 'contribtutions' with svn commits
<ogra> its fine as long as we dont overcomplicate the entry process for new MOTUS ...
<siretart> ogra: I think for us MOTUs we will stick with revu, and work on revu2. what buxy proposes is way more far reaching
<ogra> yup
<siretart> but I'm definitly interested in helping with implementing it!
<buxy> ogra: I have the same goal for Debian, I want external people join and help us even without being DD
<buxy> so that they can learn by doing
<ogra> what buxy proposes sounds very fine for the debian model, it will improve a lot ...
<buxy> but I need transparency on what they do so that we can better judge people, better train them and so that the work of reviewers is simplifed
<ogra> buxy, but isnt that what mentors was supposed to do once ?
<buxy> ogra: mentors.debian.net ?
<siretart> buxy: besides, do you need to be a DD to create an alioth project or can anyone apply for one?
<buxy> siretart: anyone can apply
<siretart> nice. good to know
<ogra> buxy, yup
<ogra> at least thats how i understood it ...
<buxy> but an alioth project is only approved if it's related to Debian in one way or another
<siretart> sure
<buxy> ogra: sure, but what they did is not enough yet, and they were in CC of my mail, I want them to help us too ! :)
<buxy> siretart: wiki.debian.org/Alioth and AliothFAQ if you want to learn more about alioth
<ogra> oh, i didnt look at the recipient list, right :)
<buxy> ogra: BTW collaborative maintenance doesn't mean "maintained by a formalized list of people"
<buxy> my proposal will help bring decentralized management of packages into Debian
<ogra> buxy, but the "group maintenance" attempt put together with debians way of having personalized packages sounds like it
<ogra> its hard to imagine (at least for some DDs i can think of) that you will be able to change the world :) but my best wishes are with you indeed
<buxy> ogra: whatever you think, I'm changing the way Debian works ...
<buxy> :-)
<siretart> :)
<buxy> it takes time but it's possible
<ogra> crossing my fingers for you, it would rock if it worked :)
<siretart> buxy: if you want truely distributed management of packages, then I'm not sure if svn fits your model
<buxy> if you check what I said in 2002 when I tried to get Debian Leader ... I announced most of the work that I did in the last 3 years and this work
<buxy> lead to more packages being now "group maintained" when there was none in 2002
<buxy> siretart: I've heard lots of good things about svk
<ogra> i think i read your papers back then :)
<siretart> buxy: good point.
<buxy> siretart: and frankly I'm not interested in a discussion about VCS
<buxy> I'm maintaining alioth and we offer SVN/baz/bzr/tla repo for maintenances
<siretart> right
<buxy> and SVN is *way* more popular (at least in the Debian world)
<siretart> I just noticed that you used 'svn commits' in the discussion above
<siretart> and svn-buildpackage is imo the best of the *-buildpackages around
<buxy> I don't if it's the best, but it exists
<buxy> and it works and many people already use it
<buxy> if I want to make Debian evolve, I have to follow the natural path of Debian ... if 70% of Debian uses SVN, I have to use SVN to have a good chance that poeple will use the new infrastructure
<siretart> right
<siretart> and after all, svn isn't that bad at all. in fact, I like it :)
<shawarma> Have any of you tried the new Gaim?
<shawarma> I'm assuming you've noticed the 2.0.0beta1 release. :-)
* buxy goes eating
<greenpenguin13> bug 21126...
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #21126: Bug does not exist
<ogra> meh, still no gobby 0.3.X
<Hieronymus> Can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1232 (bulldozer package)?
<JohnnyMast> does any one know a vlc tweak to broadcast your cam OUTside my lan ?? .... for now the httpd that vlc creates only works inside the lan
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> morning ajmitch
<LaserJock> ajmitch: up for a quick REVU review? I just need one more advocate for plotdrop and I am leaving town for a couple of weeks so I would like to get if done today or tomorrow.
<ajmitch> not right now sorry
<ajmitch> maybe later today
<LaserJock> ok, that's fine
<tseng> link please
<LaserJock> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1235
<tseng> LaserJock: done.
<LaserJock> tseng: thanks so much
<tseng> nps
<Hieronymus> Will someone review my bulldozer package, please?
<Hieronymus> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1232
<ajmitch> tseng: plotdrop will ftbfs
<ajmitch> and a quick look at the makefile shows that it might screw up the chroot it's built in
<tseng> ajmitch: go me, i didnt build it
<ajmitch> (ftbfs due to gtk+ breakage)
<ajmitch> unless seb fixed that
<tseng> what part am i looking at?
<ajmitch> I just built it on tiber quickly
<tseng> in the source itself?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what?
<tseng> i only reviewed the diff, i am lazy
<ajmitch> LaserJock: does your makefile respect DESTDIR after it's been patched?
<ajmitch> because +$(MAKE) PREFIX="/usr"
<ajmitch> that part is ok
<ajmitch> but abusing PREFIX later on..
<ajmitch> anyway, I'm late for work
<LaserJock> ajmitch: where?
<LaserJock> oh, in install?
<LaserJock> all I know is it builds fine in my pbuilder. I do patch the Makefile (maybe I am not doing it right though).
<ajmitch> sigh, I hate having to go to work & use windows
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I know the feels
<Kyral> feeling even
<Kyral> I had to help my uncle print his boarding pass
<Kyral> the only computer I had access to had WinMe + AOL Dialup
<ajmitch> & my wrist seems to be getting a little stuffed from using the mouse here
* ajmitch thinks a week off computers will be a good thing
<Treenaks> ajmitch: that's _possible_ ?!
<ajmitch> Treenaks: not only is it possible
<ajmitch> but I'm going to do it in a few days
<Treenaks> omg!
* Kyral puts his hand to ajmitch's forehead to check for a fever
<ajmitch> yes, very funny
<hub> can someone review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1238
<Mirno> omg!
<hub> now that if build from source
<Mirno> Kyral: Hi
<hub> (it broke because of bad code + gcc being stricter)
<Kyral> hello Mirno
<Mirno> hello Kyral
<Mirno> is icc free of charge ?
<Kyral> ICC?
<Mirno> Intel C Compiler
<Kyral> Intel has their own C Compiler?
<siretart> yeah
<siretart> it optimizes great
<ajmitch> for anything but an amd chip ;)
<Mirno> Kyral: yes it's a much bette roptimizer than gcc
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<Kyral> I dunno I just use GCC
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<Mirno> Kyral: me too
<Mirno> Kyral: I was considering to try icc
<hub> Mirno: if only Intel could provide this to gcc
<hub> ....
<Mirno> hub: yes if only ... :=)
<Mirno> hub: do you know if it's free of charge ?
<hub> Mirno: I know it is not free softw3
<hub> software
<Mirno> hub: yes that i know
<hub> so for the rest I'm not caring at all
<Mirno> but do they cherge forit ?
<Mirno> ok hub
<siretart> Mirno: for noncommercial/private use its free. not sure for educational purposes but I think too
<Mirno> siretart: ok, thank you very much :)
<Mirno> siretart: (hi BTW)
<siretart> huhu Mirno
<siretart> Mirno: ah, good that I catch you ;)
<siretart> Mirno: have you already seen http://debian-unofficial.org?
<Mirno> siretart: no
<Mirno> One unofficial repository to rule them all.
<Mirno> huhu
<siretart> Mirno: I'm currently in contact with him. what he does is in my opinion quite similar to plf, I think
<Mirno> siretart: yes
<Mirno> siretart: but he does it for debian
<Mirno> siretart: :)
<siretart> Mirno: well, he is a DD
<siretart> (well, not yet, he is in NM, but anyway)
<siretart> Mirno: he wouldn't object much in having a http://ubuntu-unofficial.org
<Mirno> siretart: DD as in Dolby Digital ? :)
<siretart> Mirno: DD as in debian developer
<Mirno> siretart: so ?
<siretart> Mirno: I thought you might be interested in knowing
<Mirno> siretart: well I don't understand why we should take this domaine name and why should we ask him for it ?
<siretart> Mirno: no, I don't mind about the domain name
<siretart> Mirno: I rather mind about the repository's package policy and the packages he actually has
<Mirno> siretart: he is willing to port them ?
<siretart> Mirno: AFAIK he accepts buildds
<Mirno> siretart: what is "AFAIK" ? :)
<siretart> as far as I know
<siretart> or better, I think
<Mirno> siretart: and what is "builds" ?
<Mirno> siretart: you mean binary deb ?
<siretart> Mirno: a build daemon is a machine autobuilding packages
<Mirno> siretart: you propose I provide a ubuntu machine so he can build his packages for ubuntu ?
<Mirno> s/propose/suggest/
<siretart> I currently dont suggest anything
<siretart> I'm considering how we can collaborate with him
<Mirno> siretart: I don't understand what you have in minde :)
<siretart> Mirno: currently I'm at the stage in thinking how to compare his repository with what we already have in multiverse
<siretart> Mirno: and then look whats left. what we can include in multiverse, and what would have to go to some other repository
<Mirno> siretart: ok
<siretart> Mirno: please don't misunderstand me, but for my taste, the plf acceptance policy is far too lax. thats why I cannot recommend using them with clean concience.
<Mirno> siretart: as you wish :)
<siretart> Mirno: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/unofficial/not-in-ubuntu thats the list of packages in debian-unofficial but not in multiverse
<Mirno> siretart: ok
<Mirno> thx
<siretart> so I need to go through the list and comment about their status
<siretart> Mirno: for libdvdcss, he has no problems with hosting it, because he says it was legal in CH *shrug*
<siretart> for java, it is a bit more complicated, because sun makes YOU responsible when you are redistributing it
<siretart> for skype, he told me it was no problem. you just have to report that to skype and update it everytime they release a new version
<siretart> so we cannot have skype in ubuntu, because we cannot update in past releases
<Amaranth> updates and/or backports?
<ajmitch> siretart: interesting, what did you use to get that list?
<siretart> ajmitch: I downloaded the 'Sources' files, concatenated them, extracted the source package name with grep-dctrl
<ajmitch> siretart: just grep packages files?
<ajmitch> ah, using source package namesd
<siretart> ajmitch: did some sort magic, then diffed it and edited the '-' away with vim
<ajmitch> nice
<siretart> the manual foo and magic
<siretart> ;)
<ajmitch> yep
<hub> siretart: dvdcss is legal in a lot of countries :-)
<ajmitch> much better than nasty hackish scripts like mine
<siretart> hub: interesting
<Kyral> But because the US Government is run by the RIAA...
<ajmitch> hub: but mirrors would end up carrying it & we can't push it to there
<siretart> ajmitch: well, I assume your hackish scripts are non-interactive
<hub> ajmitch: I get the point :-)
<hub> I was just saying
<ajmitch> siretart: of course
<ajmitch> siretart: and now sistpoty is using them to update the merge lists
<siretart> cool!
<siretart> perhaps I should put the list on the ubuntu wiki
<siretart> for public commenting them
<Kyral> what are these?
<ajmitch> siretart: we'll do a similar interface for unmet deps later as we do for merges now
<hub> can someone advocate this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=873
<ajmitch> siretart: if we had enough RAM I'd like to use britney on tiber
<hub> and this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1238
<ajmitch> but apparantly it really loves the memory
<ajmitch> maybe ask kamion about getting the scripts
<siretart> ajmitch: how much ram does she need?
<ajmitch> well we only need to do an installability test
<siretart> I never used britney
<ajmitch> but imagine holding the whole dependency tree in memory
<ajmitch> and resolving all the virtual depends, conflicts, etc
<siretart> but running them on universe would be really interesting
<siretart> ajmitch: perhaps you could place a ready to run example on tiber, so I can run her on my machine?
<ajmitch> which is why I didn't continue writing my pure python version
<ajmitch> siretart: I grabbed the source on tiber
<ajmitch> but it requires python-apt, and some other packages
<ajmitch> sorry,  libapt-pkg-dev
<siretart> ajmitch: thanks
<siretart> how to use/configure her?
<ajmitch> no idea
<ajmitch> well I have an idea
<ajmitch> but it's not well documented
<siretart> ah, exactly my problem :)
<ajmitch> as like any of the 'evolved' debian scripts ;)
<ajmitch> which have just grown in place on debian
<siretart> and she doesn't like amd64 :/
<lfittl> Does anybody know why the i386 buildd gives back some packages lately? (http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mdf2iso/0.3.0-0ubuntu1/)
<JohnnyMast> siretart do you have some time to review 2 packages ?
<siretart> sorry, I'm too tired now :(
<seth_k|lappy> anyone want to review a merge for a KDE package, noteedit? Should be quite quick; very small debdiff
<JohnnyMast> any one else ? that i could tackle for a revu ?
<seth_k|lappy> lfittl, i386 buildd is messed up, it'll be fixed
<lfittl> seth_k|lappy: k, thanks for the information :)
<greenpenguin13> bug #21126 is fixed but still listed on bugzilla
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #21126: Bug does not exist
<siretart> seth_k|lappy: which bugno?
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: I'll review kryptor later, but my first impression is that the diff is too big (generated files), and you've got numerous spelling errors, some of which really do matter (eg in debian/rules)
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch alright im looking forward to it
<ajmitch> JohnnyMast: and you don't need libx11-dev & libx11-6 in build-depends
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch toucht that already
<ajmitch> build-depending the library as well as the headers is unnecessary, and kdelibs4-dev pulls it in anyway
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you still have problems with my plotdrop packaging?
<Kyral> anyone know what "warning: assignment discards qualifiers from pointer target type" means?
<Mithrandir> Kyral: you have something like void foo(const char *bar) {char *baz = bar } in your code.
<Mithrandir> (hence discarding "const" in the example)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: dunno, I haven't tried building it or testing, etc
<lifeless> does motus take care of multiverse too ?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: and I see nothing new on REVU
<ajmitch> lifeless: yep
<Kyral> Mithrandir: its an assignment statement
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you said earlier that it was FTBS
<Kyral>  s = gtk_entry_get_text (GTK_ENTRY (entry_gs));
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, mainly because libgtk2.0-dev might be missing some xdmcp dependency
<ajmitch> or the pbuilder needs updated
<Kyral> I don't see anyting wrong with the assignment
<Kyral> then again I don't know what gtk_entry_get_text returns
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it worked for me fine
<Kyral> Okay...can someone who knows the GTK Libs look over this?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ok it built
<Kyral> could someone who knows the GTK Libs look at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easychem-0512141655/easychem-0.6/dialogs.c lines 963 and tell me whats wrong there?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what about my use of PREFIX in the install rule in debian/rules. Is that not ok?
<ajmitch> not really
<buxy> ajmitch & sirestart: britney has an author however, and he still lives, so you can contact him (even on IRC)
<ajmitch> it works
<ajmitch> buxy: I know that..
<desrt> Kyral; wrt. the comment?
<Kyral> desrt: no the assignment near it
<Kyral> s = whatever
<desrt> looks fine to me.
<Kyral> hmm, GCC is spittng out a warning
<desrt> oh
<desrt> s should be const char *
<desrt> not char *
<ajmitch> buxy: funnily enough I had even thought of asking someone about it, once I had looked at it a bit
<Kyral> desrt: so in the declaration I should chanage it to const * gchar?
<desrt> Kyral; yes
<desrt> 'assignment discards qualifiers from pointer target type' ?
<desrt> or some such?
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> but what...if I change it to declare const
<Kyral> then the = wouldn't work...
<desrt> const char *s; means that the char that s points to is const
<desrt> not s itself
<desrt> that would be char * const s;
<Kyral> so the = would be right?
<desrt> yes.  assigning to a pointer of type (const char *) is fine.
<ajmitch> Kyral: you're spending a lot of effort on this warning
<Kyral> ajmitch: I wanna fix it :D
<Kyral> so it will be accepted into Universe LD
<Kyral> You called it to my attention so :D
<desrt> what package is this?
<Kyral> EasyChem
<desrt> oh.  you're not talking to me :)
<Kyral> builds fine, but ajmitch noted that the warning could be bad on AMD64
<ajmitch> Kyral: it won't be
<desrt> Kyral; it's a trivial warning in this case
<ajmitch> I didn't really look at what the warning was
<Kyral> ajmitch: then can you advocate so I can forget this thing for a while
<desrt> Kyral; read the gettext() manpage for example
<desrt> from gettext:
<desrt> BUGS
<desrt>        The  return type ought to be const char *, but is char * to avoid warn
<desrt>        ings in C code predating ANSI C.
<Mithrandir> Kyral: const vs non-const is just as harmful on i386 as on amd64.
<desrt> gettext actively does exactly what that warning is warning you about :)
<Kyral> someone just get me one more vote lol
<desrt> (ie: using a 'char *' to store a const char pointer)
<desrt> did keyboardcast get accepted yet?
<desrt> crikey.  no.
<desrt> advocate #1120, people :p
<LaserJock> ajmitch: if you don't mind, could you briefly explain why my use of PREFIX was wrong? Do I need to modify the Makefile more?
<Kyral> yah someone just please advocate EasyChem
* desrt would but he doesn't even know how to get a REVU account much less what easychem even is :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-24
<seth_k|lappy> siretart, bug #5577
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5577: noteedit: merge new debian version In: noteedit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/5577
<seth_k|lappy> </late> ;)
<Kyral> ping LaserJock
<LaserJock> yoh
<Kyral> did your @ubuntu start working yet? ;P
<LaserJock> no
<Kyral> hehe
<LaserJock> you?
<Kyral> didn't check today
<Kyral> I'll check before the next CC Meeting through
<Kyral> when is it anyway...
<LaserJock> I'm more concerned about getting commit access to the doc-team svn repo. I would like to commit some stuff before I leave for Christmas on Tuesday
<JohnnyMast> m going on fryday to the UK :)
<Kyral> Yah if its not up by the CC meeting, I'm pinging whoever I need to ping
<LaserJock> Kyral: if I'm not there will you ping for me too?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> who WOULD I ping anyway?
<crimsun> elmo.
<Kyral> who is this elmo anyway?
<LaserJock> James Troup
<Kyral> ah okay
<Kyral> ircnick is elmo?
<crimsun> yes.
<Kyral> never seen him around
<crimsun> don't panic if you don't hear back from him. He's extremely busy.
<LaserJock> yeah, I wish he could delegate more. He does soo much
<Kyral> Cronjob the LP thing :P
<crimsun> @ubuntu.com is crontabbed last I knew
<crimsun> yours probably just needs to be poked
<Kyral> yah well its been like 2 weeks lol
<crimsun> heh, try almost 10 months :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Poked in what way?
<crimsun> then again, mine's a technical issue, which is different from yours
<crimsun> Kyral: as in someone needs to poke it.
<Kyral> beside me?
<LaserJock> elmo I am guessing
<Kyral> or am I not getting the meaning of Poke?
<crimsun> mgalvin: hi. I've been meaning to ask what you guys were going to do with libcwd, but I went ahead and uploaded 0.99.42 to Dapper. Since you guys maintain it, anything I need to know?
<mgalvin> crimsun: nothing special, there is this one debian bug open on it which I did not get around to yet #340174, other than that i don't think there are any other special consideration.
<crimsun> mgalvin: you can close it when you upload 0.99.42 (after removing g++-3.4 from debian/control:Build-Depends)
<ajmitch> afternoon
<tseng> hi ajmitch
<jabra> any guys. I have a cool network security tool someone might wanta package.
<jabra> *hey*
<jsgotangco> that is?
<jabra> it's called pbnj ment to scan machines and then parse nmap diff
<jabra> http://pbnj.sf.net
<jabra> I would like to see if anyone would like to package it for ubuntu
<jabra> also if anyone has comments and other suggestions please feel free to send them to me
<jabra> jabra @ccs.neu.edu
<ajmitch> jabra: put it on UniverseCandidates
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jabra> aight
<jabra> ok I will add it
<mgalvin> crimsun: great, thnx
<crimsun> mgalvin: np
<jabra> ok added
<jabra> will there be an email back when it is reveiwed or comments posted
<ajmitch> jabra: someone would have to make a package first
<ajmitch> one would hope that the person packaging would get in touch
<jabra> until then ?
<jabra> it just waits?
<smergler2> hey
<ajmitch> jabra: well yes, there's only a limited number of people who do packaging, and a lot of stuff that people want done
<ajmitch> jabra: you could always package it yourself if you wanted :)
<jabra> ajmitch: true but as a programmer I have made an ubuntu install shell script
<jabra> and I don't have the time to maintain the software and the ubuntu package yet
<tseng> as a progammer im sure you can figure out how to write a makefile for a proper package
<jabra> I have
<ajmitch> generally if someone wants it in ubuntu, they'll go to the effort to do it
<jabra> aight
<ajmitch> you could file an RFP bug in debian as well
<jabra> RFP?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> check it out on the debian site, qa.debian.org
<jabra> amap is in universe right?
<tseng> apt-cache show amap
<tseng> Filename: pool/universe/a/amap/amap_4.8-1.1_i386.deb
<jabra> thought so
<jabra> i'll look into this further tomorrow
<minghua> good evening
<bmonty> doko: ping
<zakame> afternoon all :D
<chillywilly> hi
<chillywilly> it's 11pm here :)
<LaserJock> Unfrgiven: you around?
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> how what your talk the other day?
<dholbach> it went quite well, i guess
<LaserJock> s/what/was/
<dholbach> it's online somewhere, let me find the link
<jsgotangco> how did you conduct it? via chat?
<desrt> daniel gave a talk?
<desrt> hrm
<dholbach> jsgotangco: irc, yes, it was at http://umeet.uninet.edu :)
<dholbach> http://umeet.uninet.edu/umeet2005/talks/?lang=en&s=daniel
<dholbach> at the end, i had blisters on my fingers.... or something
<dholbach> (i had to type quite quickly) - the other talkers had their stuff prepared, so they had less hassle - good morning ryan by the way :)
<desrt> copy/paste is cheating :)
<desrt> good morning to you too.
<desrt> do you think it might be appropriate to move the "recent documents" item to the very top of the places menu?
<desrt> i think it would be much more used if it was there
<dholbach> desrt: we should discuss this on ubuntu-desktop@
<LaserJock> dholbach: btw, I got two votes for plotdrop today after I made the changes you suggested.
<desrt> @ubuntu.com?
<dholbach> lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> LaserJock: that's good news
<desrt> just randomly send an email to that address?
<dholbach> LaserJock: did they upload it already?
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know
<dholbach> desrt: i can moderate it, but i guess it's better, if you actually sign up ;)
<dholbach> desrt: its traffic is not bad
<desrt> ok
<dholbach> LaserJock: did you ask your mail address to be whitelisted yet?
<desrt> i will for now.
<dholbach> ubuntu desktop team! :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: yep, it is
<dholbach> LaserJock: good
<jsgotangco> dholbach, ah so it was a chat conference...i thought you actually spoke...
<dholbach> jsgotangco: no, i "cheated" :)
<dholbach> jsgotangco: i'll speak in january
<desrt> dholbach; i accidentally sent the email (just) before signing up to the list.  you might have to push it through manually
<dholbach> desrt: i'll be delighted to :)
<desrt> sorry :p
<dholbach> done
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> don't worry
<LaserJock> dholbach: just got done reading your talk, very nice.
<dholbach> it was just 45 min of talk, so i gave the big overview only
<LaserJock> yes, but you gave lots of places for people to plug in to.
<dholbach> i hope they see it that way too :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: do you know what the process for REVU packages that are OK'd is? Do the automatically get uploaded or does a MOTU have to do that by hand?
<dholbach> is there a note, that it was uploaded?
<dholbach> you should ask the two guys
<bojan> morning!
<LaserJock> dholbach: no notes just votes ;-)
<dholbach> LaserJock: then ask the two guys
<dholbach> morning bojan
<lucas> hi
<lucas> somebody here ? there's something I don't understand about a build log
<minghua> I'm here
<lucas> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/r/ruby-gnome2/0.14.1-1/
<minghua> not sure I'll understand it better than you though :-)
<lucas> look at the last "given-back" log
<lucas> seems like there's a problem on the i386 buildd
<minghua> lucas: i386 buildd is known to have problems now
<lucas> oh ok
<lucas> didn't know that
<lucas> where should I have found out ?
<minghua> hmm, some one should put it on topic perhaps
<minghua> lucas: don't know, I knew that from the talks here :-)
<lucas> ok
<LaserJock> dholbach: I somewhat completed a merging tutorial started by JohnnyMast at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging .
<LaserJock> I don't know it is too long but if you think it is useful we could link to it from MOTUToMerge or something
<dholbach> LaserJock: please call for proofreaders on the mailing list
<LaserJock> dholbach: aww, good idea. Will do
<dholbach> thank you. :-)
<buxy> dholbach: I replied to your mail, explaining the choice of SVN
<dholbach> ahhhh, so you're buxy :)
<buxy> dholbach: as I explained it to sirestart yesterday evening, if I want to change how Debian works, I have to use what Debian people are using
<buxy> and right now this is svn
<buxy> dholbach: yes I am ! :)
<lifeless> buxy: define 'debian people'
<lifeless> offhand I can think of debian people that use CVS, baz, bzr, darcs, hg and svn.
<Mithrandir> as well as git, I imagine.
<minghua> I _think_ buxy is referring to Alioth projects
<Mithrandir> yes, which handles at least arch in addition to svn and cvs.
<minghua> that's true
<minghua> it's just that I use SVN only and forgot others, sorry :-P
<zakame> lucas: ruby-gnome2 and libgettext-ruby still has give-backs on i386, not out of the woods yet :/
<lucas> zakame: there are build problems on the i386 buildd, which are unrelated to the package
<lucas> it seems the i386 buildd just cannot find the source
<zakame> lucas: yes, I checked it yesterday, and still is so today :( but I wouldn't mark it as fixed until it builds on all archs
<buxy> lifeless: Debian contributors using alioth to handle packages
<lucas> zakame: I'll monitor the build logs and reopen if it isn't rebuilded in a few days
<zakame> lucas: I leave it to you then ;) keep up the good work!
<lucas> zakame: the libgtk-trayicon-ruby problem is strange
<buxy> lifeless: i know also people using bzr, etc. in Debian but the majority is using svn
<crimsun_> 'night guys.
<dholbach> night cr...
<zakame> lucas: indeed, as I said it seems to put a .so inside a /usr/local directory
<lucas> yes, but it didn't on Debian
<lucas> but sbody reported a debian bug about this, so it seems that sometimes, it does too on debian.
<zakame> hm, strange indeed
<lucas> anyway, I added a patch to the launchpad bug, and reopened the debian bug about this.
<lucas> (the maintainer closed it since he couldn't reproduce)
<lifeless> buxy: with the greatest respect, I doubt your stats.
<zakame> I'm not near my desktop right now (i'm missing it so terribly), as I'm in Manila, but as soon as I get back I'll try to reproduce it
<buxy> lifeless: check http://svn.debian.org and count, check http://arch.debian.org and count
<buxy> lifeless: I'm administering alioth where both those services are hosted
<sivang> Good morning everybody
<zakame> hi sivang
<Treenaks> how do I make a debug build of a cdbs-package?
<siretart> morning
<zakame> hi siretart
<siretart> buxy: very good points on -devel. Will answer on them after work
<buxy> siretart: fine !
<\sh> moins
<janimo> siretart, please nuke xubuntu-docs and xubuntu-default-settings from REVU, thanks
<\sh> janimo: I archived it :)
<janimo> \sh, thanks
<\sh> morning dredg
<janimo> \sh, btw do you know anything about {k,}ubuntu-docs having to use update-alternatives instead of dpkg-divert?
<janimo> the latter does not work if more than two packages try to provide the same file (about ubuntu ff start page)
<janimo> infinity said something about this but it is not currently the case
<\sh> janimo: well..no, but I think this is a good case to bring this to core dev attention...we need to find a better solution _now_ :)
<janimo> I'll ping infinity again about it
<StevenK> ARGH! mkdirhier is *NOT* in /usr/X11R6/bin
* StevenK is going to kill this build system.
<janimo> Riddell, dholbach ping
<dholbach> janimo: pong
<janimo> dhlobach see above
<janimo> do you have an idea what the alternatives name could be for index.html
<janimo> in about ubuntu
<janimo> right now u-docs and ku-docs use dpkg-divert I think which is messy
<dredg> morning
<janimo> and with xubu in the mix gets messier even :)
<dredg> \sh: howdy
<dholbach> janimo: it seems the right thing to do, no?
<janimo> dholbach, divert does not work with more than 2 packages
<janimo> so it needs to use update-alternatives
<janimo> or so I have been told when I asked
<janimo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xubuntu-default-settings/0.2/xubuntu-default-settings_0.2_20051218-2044-i386-given-back.gz
<janimo> any idea why this happens?
<Tonio_> hi
<Riddell> janimo: the i386 buildds seem to be giving lots back these last few days
<\sh> Riddell: since you uploaded the kde critical masses :-)
<Tonio_> hum
<Tonio_> do you think a set of amarok scripts package would be usefull ?
<Riddell> Tonio_: if they are useful scripts yes
<Tonio_> Riddell: there are LOTS of very usefull scripts
<Tonio_> I think it could be interesting to package them by category...
<Tonio_> I'll manage to have a look toonight ;)
<zakame> wb minghua
<minghua> hi zakame
<zakame> hi slomo :)
<slomo> hi zakame
<minghua> does simple-patchsys in cdbs use debian/patches/ as well?
<minghua> there is a thread on debian-devel about debian/patches/ directory
<janimo> minghua, yes
<janimo> if they are called 00_patchname, 01_pacthname2 etc
<minghua> a nice oppertunity to advocate #ubuntu-motu-school if I can find the log for \sh's first lecture...
<janimo> but no need for a patch index file as with dpatch AFAIK
<minghua> janimo: I see, thanks
<xerxas> hi
<xerxas> is there any reason ubuntu doesn't have /etc/init.d/iptables as debian have ?
<ogra> xerxas, debian stable doesnt have this file
<ogra> thats been in woody
<xerxas> ogra: are there any plan for having it in ubuntu ?
<xerxas> ogra: sorry I only work with unstable ubuntu :)
<ogra> why should we? debian doent have it either
<ogra> there was a SoC project fro a firewall solution which is still WIP
<xerxas> SoC == Summer of Code ?
<ogra> yup
<xerxas> a SoC for ubuntu ?
<ogra> there were many  ....
<xerxas> ogra: cool
<xerxas> where is the WIP for firewall in ubuntu ?
<ogra> no idea, look through the wiki for the spec
<ogra> i dont know if it was moved to launchpad already
<xerxas> ogra: found on the wiki
<xerxas> nothing interesting to me
<ogra> ah, fine
<xerxas> found someone on google who ported the gentoo /etc/init.d/iptables to ubuntu
<ogra> but that will be responsible for iptable rules ...
<xerxas> I will probably do that
<asbin> siretart: I've just saw your comments for my ushare package. Thanks ;)
<asbin> siretart: but I disagree with you when you say I should move debian/po in upstream tarball : it's po-debconf l10n files for the debian templates. There's a Debian page about that here : http://www.debian.org/intl/l10n/po-debconf/
<siretart> asbin: oh, then I mislooked it. I'm sorry
<asbin> siretart: no problems ;)
<asbin> siretart: we should make a new release of the program soon, so I'll upload the new package with modifs when it's done ...
<siretart> ok
<asbin> siretart: Thank you for having a look in this package ... we will be very happy when this package will be an official package (3 months after first coding line ;) )
<asbin> I don't know what is the next stage for the package been official ?
<asbin> I'm sorry, I shouldn't be the first person to ask for that here, but I couldn't find help on ubuntu wiki !
<Kyral> Morning MOTU people
<minghua> morning Kyral
<Kyral> okay...I know that the CC Meeting is tomorrow...but last I checked...there wasn't a time
<wBryce_> How do I find out who maintains a package in the multiverse?
<Kyral> apt-cache show <package>
<Kyral> it will have the name of the maintainer in the data
<Kyral> same way you find out who maintains any other package :D
<wBryce_> There's been a few people show up on #squeak needing help getting started.
<Kyral> Whats Squeak?
<jsgotangco> an awesome educ-centric app
<wBryce_> An open source Smalltalk.
<Kyral> okay...whats Smalltalk
<Kyral> sorry I just woke up, no caffine is in my brain yet
<wBryce_> It's the host of Seaside, the main open source continuation based web-framework.
<janimo> google :)
<wBryce_> Squeak's a direct decendent of Xerox's Smalltalk work in the 70's
<Kyral> yah...just woke up
<Kyral> no caffine yet
<Kyral> didja miss that? lol
<Kyral> sorry
<wBryce_> Any way to find out if a package exists? I've tried searching for it in synaptic. No signs.
<Kyral> You mean Squeak?
<Kyral> kyral@UltimateInsaneFreedomDestinyDarknessAndLight:~$ aptS squeak
<Kyral> squeak-sources - squeak smalltalk system (system sources file)
<Kyral> squeak-vm - squeak smalltalk system (virtual machine)
<wBryce_> squeak-image
<thierry_> any MOTU would like to review my packages? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1245 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1246
<thierry_> they are the deps of another package on the universe Candidates
<wBryce_> It's not installed. Look's like it should be.
<wBryce_> And I can't find the package.
<wBryce_> For my own use I install Squeak from source by hand. Just trying to get this sorted out.
<wBryce_> The menus are set up to start squeak. Unfortunately the two packages don't include an image (needed) so it doesn't work.
<ogra> wBryce_, woks fine here
<wBryce_> OK, starting from scratch. Install squeak-vm, install squeak-sources. Where's the image?
<ogra> you dont need one to run squeak
<wBryce_> I know I can download one from squeak.org. But that's a little hard.
<wBryce_> The system is in the image.
<ogra> squeak runs fine here and in every edubuntu install if you install the squeak-vm package ...
<Kyral> here comes my one annoying msg for 12 hours
<wBryce_> There must be an image to run squeak.
<Kyral> Could any MOTU give me one more vote on EasyChem http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1166
<wBryce_> ogra: Hi, I'm Bryce Kampjes. Thanks for including Squeak in Ubuntu.
<wBryce_> Run squeak from the command line.
<wBryce_> It should ask for an image.
<wBryce_> The squeak-image package doesn't exist in the multiverse.
<wBryce_> It's referred to in the package description.
<ogra> damned, you are right
<ogra> the image was included in the -vm package once, maybe the wrong packae wnet up to the archive
<ogra> i'll fix that for dapper, thatnks for pointing it out
<wBryce_> Look's like the -vm package was split into three. And only two made it up.
<ogra> yup
<wBryce_> Where you setting the $SQUEAK_IMAGE environment variable?
<ogra> my fault ... it somehow got lost during the 4 weeks lasting discussion if it would get included at all ...
<\sh> siretart: do you think the approach is really working?
<ogra> wBryce_, i dont think so, in debian systems there is a policy to install the pieces in the right place instead of setting env variables instead
<wBryce_> ogra: no problem, thanks for getting it in. It took me a while to talk someone through installing it last night.
<ogra> wBryce_, just putting the squeak.image file into  /usr/lib/squeak/3.7-7/, should have solved it
<ogra> err, nope, actually wrong dir
<ogra>  /usr/share/squeak/ is right
<wBryce_> Hmm, strace only shows one attempt to open the image.
<wBryce_> That should be in the current directory.
<wBryce_> The image is normally modified and saved. It's all your work. It's common to have many copies of it.
<ogra> iirc there was a command that generates the image on first startup ....
<wBryce_> Probably inisqueak
<ogra> but i'll have to look into it again, its more than 7 months ago that i had it in my hands
<ogra> ah, yeh
<siretart> \sh: they didn't specify a workflow or any implementation yet, just the idea, and what they want to do
<siretart> \sh: and I really think it is a good idea, for both debian and ubuntu, so, yes, I think this could and will work
<\sh> siretart: I hope...because it will drag away our people if they make it correctly :)
<siretart> \sh: and that's why I want to join that discussion and project, so that we (in ubuntu) can and will profit from the results
<siretart> dragging people away? so what. thats what some debian is accusing ubuntu ;)
<Nafallo> siretart, \sh: you to should stop being the same color :-P.
<\sh> siretart: but many people are not going to debian, they are coming directly to ubuntu...because, yeah, because of what? because it's much more relaxed? more fun? more work? more action?
<siretart> \sh: I don't think thats a problem
<\sh> Nafallo: I'm not a color :)
<Nafallo> \sh: no NM, no flamewars :-)
<siretart> \sh: I think that is a new possibility to improve both debian and ubuntu
<Nafallo> what are you discussing btw? ;-)
<siretart> Nafallo: see the current thread on ubuntu-motu@lists.u.c.
<\sh> siretart: but only in giving them the opportunity to have packages easily in debian, because the ITP/RFPs are queuing in their bts..and no one will work on them
<siretart> \sh: that's not what buxy is talking about
<\sh> siretart: quite the opposite in our area..that's what I mean..
<siretart> \sh: buxy is talking about collaborative maintenance. A topic which has not been yet widley discussed and coordinated
<siretart> but some people are already doing. like us, motus
<\sh> siretart: and we should be able to show them the path? ;)
<siretart> \sh: no. I think we should work together in finding better paths than we have currently
* Kyral goes to install Kubuntu-Desktop
<Kyral> hey dholbach
<Kyral> I heard KDE 3.5 is supposed to be something else
<\sh> Kyral: no
<Kyral> \sh: No? No what?
<\sh> it's not something else...
<jsgotangco> its an incremental upgrade
<\sh> 4.0 will be different
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> Oh well
<jsgotangco> Kyral, 4.0 is the crack
<Kyral> I'm gonna install it just so I'm familier with KDE
<Kyral> so when someone asks a KDE question I can stop saying "Sorry I don't know KDE all that well"
<Kyral> plus its also a part of my plan to have a "Grand Unified Theme"
<Kyral> I want to make all my WMs have the same look+feel as much as I can :D
<jsgotangco> Red Hat tried to do that but failmed
<Kyral> ah
<dholbach> hi Kyral
<dholbach> re :)
<jsgotangco> they called it  "bluecurve"
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I don't mean exactly alike
<\sh> jsgotangco: why they failed?
<jsgotangco> Kyral, seriously
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<\sh> jsgotangco: it was working
<Kyral> but similar enough that if I feel like using KDE one day, it won't take a major change in thinking
<jsgotangco> \sh, last i read they're not going to use bluecurve anymore
<\sh> jsgotangco: because nobody really liked it..
<\sh> jsgotangco: but it was working
<Kyral> yah icky bluecurve
<Kyral> I like the Milk style themes myself
<jsgotangco> \sh, it did work though
<\sh> well...the better thing to do is: to make ubuntu things ubuntu and kubuntu things kubuntu...means all themes/styles for kde apps in ubuntu needs to be human and on kubuntu all gnome apps needs to be lipstick
<Kyral> lipstick?
<\sh> Kyral: check your kde styles and themes..it should default to lipstick :)
<Kyral> \sh: Its still installing :P
<\sh> (themes == window decoration)
<Kyral> Yes I know this
<\sh> Kyral: no themes in kde are a package of wm deco, colors and widgets styles normally ...
<Kyral> oh
<Kyral> well while this is Prelinking
<Kyral> I
<Kyral> am gonna get breakfast
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> donnerstag 11am utc neuer versuch :)
<\sh> argl
<lucas> What's the status of the i386 buildd problems ?
<ogra> http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi looks fine to me
<lucas> yup, but ruby-gnome2 and libgettext-ruby weren't fully built
<lucas> they weren't built on i386
<lucas> (see http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libg/libgettext-ruby/1.0.0-1/ )
<lucas> ogra: http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi doesn't look fine to me
<lucas> lots of failed i386 builds
<ogra> oh, yes, the goo old "debhelper is missing" stuff
<ogra> but it worked until 1h ago (runit 16:37 UTC)
<minghua> so the time for the CC meeting tomorrow is still not decided?
<lucas> minghua: seems so
<lucas> ogra: builds were failing yesterday
<minghua> hard for someone who wants to attend...
<lucas> so some builds are missing
<ogra> lucas, yes, but the buildds worked during the day today ..
<lucas> yup but my question was more: how do I get ruby-gnome2 and libgettext-ruby to be rebuilt ?
<ogra> and missing builds will get retried automatically anyway
<lucas> ok
<ogra> if you are in a hurry, you can ask a buildd admin t kick off a rebuild
<ogra> s/t/to
<lucas> no, no hurry
<lucas> just wanting to make sure they won't get forgot
<ogra> lucas, seems i386 is fine again
<JohnnyMast> ogra where are the motu tools like lpbugs ?
<ogra> JohnnyMast, no idea
<JohnnyMast> hmm any one else ?
<ogra> \sh_away, could tell you ... or siretart
<minghua> JohnnyMast: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/012969.html
<JohnnyMast> kk
<JohnnyMast> checking
<minghua> and the parent mail
<JohnnyMast> minghua thanks
<ogra> ah, minghua
<ogra> minghua, do you have an idea about http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21270 ?
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug #21270: gnome-cups-add is crashing if uim-gtk-immodule is aktive under non japanese desktop environment Product: Ubuntu, Component: gnome-cups-manager, Severity: normal, Assigned to: debzilla@ubuntu.com, Status: NEW http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21270
<minghua> np
<minghua> hmm, so I'm GTK IM module expert now? :-P
<ogra> hehe ...
<ogra> japanese input methods god at least ;)
<siretart> JohnnyMast: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools
<JohnnyMast> yep :) found it already but thanks any ways
<minghua> siretart: would you please send a follow up to ubuntu-devel list saying the repo changed?
<minghua> siretart: and with the bzr command to switch would be best :-)
<siretart> minghua: huh? what repo changed?
<LaserJock> from \sh to siretart I think
<minghua> siretart: the mail \sh sent to ubuntu-devel refers to http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<siretart> hm, I don't know whether we are diverged or not. Usually \sh and I should have the same contents
<minghua> ogra: read the bug report, no clue
<siretart> from time to time one of us has a newer commit, but both branches should have nearly the same contents
<ogra> ok
<LaserJock> siretart: but it is a bit confusing
<minghua> ogra: it shouldn't be the same crasher for scim-gtk-immodule, as uim doesn't use c++
<ogra> ah, didnt know that
<minghua> ogra: I'll see if I can reproduce it, and follow up either way asking for some more info
<ogra> thanks :)
<minghua> ogra: is there any way to tell if the reporter is using breezy or dapper?
<ogra> breezy
<ogra> i know him
<Gloubiboulga> evening
<siretart> LaserJock: you are right. we should finally package and upload it to the archive
<minghua> hmm, how to subscribe to a bug in bugzilla?
<Am|NickTaken> if a bug in smeg is fixed in the latest release i should close the bug in malone as FIXED, right?
<Hieronymus> minghua: add you e-mail to CC
<Am|NickTaken> even if that user can't get the latest release without upgrading ubuntu
<Hieronymus> *your
<Am|NickTaken> also, who do i poke to get smeg removed from malone? it's in main
<Hieronymus> Am|NickTaken: it's fixed in dapper, so yeah
<minghua> Hieronymus: no I don't wan't CC, I just want to find it easily next time I login, but thanks anyway
<Hieronymus> minghua: I make a custom search with things I posted to etc.
<Hieronymus> http://tinyurl.com/9mmog
<minghua> Hieronymus: that does the trick, thanks
<ogra> Am|NickTaken, i usually mark it as fixed and mention the uploaded version that fixed it in the closing comment
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you packaged texmaker, right?
<Gloubiboulga> yes LaserJock
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: very good, I was just going to do it but you beat me to it :-)
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, could you review it then ?
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: unfortunately I'm not a MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> oops, sorry
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: do you use texmaker much?
<Gloubiboulga> I've just discovered it
<Gloubiboulga> I usually use emacs
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: yeah, I usually use emacs/vim but I really liked kile when I used KDE
<Gloubiboulga> texmaker doesn't need kde dependencies, only libqt4
<Gloubiboulga> it's a good point for non kde users :)
<NeTo> hi, I hope my question doesn't sound stupid
<JohnnyMast> no question is stupid
<NeTo> I have been working for a few days in a package for scilab 3.1.1
<NeTo> since the one in the breezy repos looks is very outdated
<JohnnyMast> thats because its frozen
<NeTo> I meant dapper :p (I'm building it on breezy, but that's another issue)
<NeTo> the version in dapper (and debian unstable) is 3.0
<JohnnyMast> yeah 3.0.14
<JohnnyMast> what does debain has ?
<NeTo> the same
<NeTo> 3.0.14
<JohnnyMast> you should contact twerner@debian.org
<NeTo> and last time I read the bug list in debian for scilab the package mantainer was requesting for help to maintain the package. I don't know if I can help mantain the package, but hopefully the new version is working
<NeTo> (in my pc at least :p)
<JohnnyMast> yes but you could ask him to insert a new version
<JohnnyMast> but i dont know if motu can fix packages im multiverse
<JohnnyMast> Directory: pool/multiverse/s/scilab
<NeTo> ah ok thank you. That was exactly what I wanted to know. I have built the package, but i wasn't sure what to do with it right now
<JohnnyMast> :)
<NeTo> I'm very new at Linux, so I wasn't sure about guidelines for package inclusion/revision
<LaserJock> JohnnyMast: MOTUs are in charge of Multiverse too
<JohnnyMast> LaserJock alright
<herve> hello
<Gloubiboulga> JohnnyMast, about permissions trouble on the jargoninformatique directory on REVU, do you know what can I do?
<JohnnyMast> Gloubiboulga what kind of permission problems ?
<Gloubiboulga> Nobody can enter the source directory on REVU
<Gloubiboulga> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1229
<JohnnyMast> ooh, no you have to contact some higher hand then me
<Gloubiboulga> well, I've just checked, it's accessible now...
<JohnnyMast> ok that good news :)
<Gloubiboulga> yes :)
<JohnnyMast> jeeej
* JohnnyMast drinks a coffee to that
<NeTo> I'll write to the debian mantainer of scilab. Anyway, if anyone wants to take a look at the scilab 3.1.1 packages...
<NeTo> I have uploaded the debs to http://neto.no-ip.com:8080/Ubuntu%20-%20Breezy/scilab/
<NeTo> for breezy
<NeTo> I have uploaded the sources to http://neto.no-ip.com:8080/Ubuntu%20-%20Breezy/Sources/scilab/
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch are you awalke already ?
<sivang> is this normal for the allocator transition?
<sivang> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libdar3c2a_2.2.4-2_i386.deb (--unpack):
<sivang>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libdar.so.3.0.1', which is also in package libdar2c2
<sivang> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
<sivang> I can just go on and overwrite,
<sivang> better check first
<sivang> or maybe libdar3c2a_2.2.4-2 needs a conflicts with the old one?
<sivang> siretart: ^^ any idea?
<crimsun> sivang: yes, it needs Replaces and Conflicts, I'll fix it.
<lucas> is the source code of the scripts generating http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ available somewhere ?
<sivang> crimsun: cool, thanks
<crimsun> uploaded.
<minghua> sivang: sounds like a debian bug to me...
<siretart> lucas: please ask Keybuk
<crimsun> minghua: it's not a Debian bug, it's a Ubuntu bug that I just fixed.
<lucas> siretart: ok
<minghua> crimsun: so debian never had libdar3c2, I see
<lucas> I'm wondering why it so often fails to determine correctly the debian version on which the ubuntu version is based
<crimsun> ah crap.
<sivang> crimsun: cool even more, I'll wait to see if that fixes instead of overwriting
<buxy> lucas: I've hedaerd that it used snapshot.debian.net which lost a big part of the history due to disk failure ...
<asbin> siretart: I've just uploaded a new version of ushare ;)
<buxy> s/hedard/heard/
* crimsun finds a brown paper bag
* Loiosh blows into it and then pops it. -bam-!
<minghua> libdar.so.3.0.1 in libdar2c2?  the guy did the breezy transition was on crack...
<crimsun> minghua: a bit late for it now but corrected nonetheless
<dholbach> have a nice evening, i'm off :)
<minghua> crimsun: yeah, glad you noticed that (I didn't :-)
<minghua> good night dholbach
<crimsun> 'night daniel
<dholbach> night you two
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<ogra> minghua, why would he be on crack ? the debian package is still called libdar2c2 and contains libdar.so.3.0.1
<minghua> ogra: I stand corrected
<crimsun> he wasn't on crack, he did the right thing by sticking to Debian's lib name and tacking on c2
<ogra> yup
* ogra thinks \sh deserves to be defended :) 
<minghua> ogra: apparently dar 2.2.1-1 in Debian ships libdar.so.3 in libdar2
<ogra> i remember how much time he spent with this beast :)
<ogra> minghua, yes, thats what sivang's error indicates ...
<minghua> although it's fixed in 2.2.1-2
<ogra> there is a replaces/provides missing ...
<ogra> or a replaces/conflicts ...
<minghua> if \sh back, please accept my apologies :-)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> dar is evil, dont touch it if nobody forces you ;)
<ogra> or you are masochistic ...
<Loiosh> Hee!
* minghua is surprised to find said broken libdar2 is in sarge though
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch , ping
<JohnnyMast> any reviewer alive ?
<LaserJock> no, some disgruntled wannabes snuck in and slaughtered them all
<LaserJock> just kidding of course
* crimsun dies
<crimsun> damned slaughterers
<Loiosh>  Heh
<JohnnyMast> hehe
<JohnnyMast> i got 2 packages ready to rock
<dooglus> it turns out my external monitor doesn't go black regularly - it goes black for a second whenever the display changes.
<dooglus> any idea what might be wrong?
<LaserJock> do you guys happen to know how hard it would be to get a 2.4 kernel running in Ubuntu?
<tseng> i think it would be nearly impossible at this point
<tseng> all the hardware detection is based on udev
<tseng> which relies on sysfs
<LaserJock> hmm, ok. Oh well
<tseng> if you redid the whole boot infrastructure
<tseng> i guess maybe
<LaserJock> well, I will just stick to Sarge then.
<LaserJock> tseng: btw, could/can you upload my plotdrop package that you advocated on REVU yesterday?
<tseng> not the worst thing in the world
<tseng> i cant today, no
<tseng> ajmitch said there are problems with it and I am leaving town soon
<tseng> ask tommorow
<LaserJock> hmm, I think he is ok with it now but I don't know.
<LaserJock> I am leaving town tomorrow early in the moring
<LaserJock> tseng: don't worry about it I will figure something out
<tseng> brandon@ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> k
<tseng> please email package status and ill get to it tommorow
<LaserJock> thanks
* Kyral is happy
<LaserJock> oh?
<Kyral> I passed Calc :D
<LaserJock> very good
<Kyral> Granted I also pulled a D+ in my CS Class lol
<ajmitch> morning
<tseng> im off, cya
<ajmitch> bye tseng
<LaserJock> ajmitch: so do you have a problem with plotdrop or no?
<minghua> Kyral: congratulations!  that means you are an official sophomore now, right?
<minghua> ;-)
<Kyral> minghua: yah
<Kyral> Now someone finish off this day and gimme a vote on EasyChem :P
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I haven't had time to take a proper look at it, but it does seem to build without killing things
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you didn't like the use of $(PREFIX) in the install rule but the upstream Makefile doesn't use DISTDIR
<LaserJock> ajmitch: since I am patching the Makefile anyway I can change it if you want
<LaserJock> ajmitch: or I can leave it as is for now and promise to change it with the next version ;-)
<ajmitch>      it would be nice to have it changed
<ajmitch> DESTDIR, btw
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so generally we want $(DESTDIR)/$(PREFIX) right?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-25
<ajmitch> something like that, though you can probably drop the / in between
<ajmitch> bbl
<LaserJock> or should I get rid of $(PREFIX) altogether?
<poningru> guys question is rufus in the repos for dapper?
<poningru> http://rufus.sourceforge.net/index.php
<eruin> poningru, no
<poningru> eruin: is it just that no one has packaged it or...?
<eruin> I haven't seen any talk about it and it isn't in the dapper repos atm
<eruin> but then I'm not a dev either ;)
* eruin hugs Kyral 
<Kyral> hello
<minghua> they had an interview for the Debian KDE maintainer group, I suppose one for Kubuntu people will follow soon?
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> anyone know of a good package that has an example postinst file?
<Kyral> or tell me how one is layed out?
<Kyral> ...
<minghua> many postinst files are auto-generated by debhelper
<Kyral> yah well, I need to custom one
<minghua> the one for gcc is hand-written and looks very good to me
<minghua> and short
<Kyral> I'm customizing OpenAFS for my Linux Lab and basically need to wget all the config files from our server on install
<minghua> but I don't really understand the question, it's just a shell script
<Kyral> Thank you thats all I needed to know :D
<minghua> or maybe even any script
<Kyral> its a Bash Script :D
<Kyral> Backup the default install files, wget the config files
<Kyral> on Remove restore the changed files
<Kyral> oh sweet
<Kyral> openafs already has postinst
<poningru> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?s=3ab98d4e1bee47890a8df8eaf101f2df&t=57590&page=2
<poningru> how come rufus is not in the repos?
<LaserJock> poningru: because Debian doesn't have it?
<LaserJock> poningru: there is a rufus package on REVU
<poningru> oh ok
<poningru> doh
<poningru> I could have sworn I searched there
<poningru> sorry about that
<StevenK> Any MOTU around?
<lifeless> whats the question?
<Kyral> 10 bucks says he wants a package reviewed :P
<StevenK> Actually, I'd like a package uploaded.
<Kyral> lol
* seth_k|lappy pokes Kyral for the 10 bucks, you were wrong
<Kyral> yah yah
<StevenK> wnn6-sdk 1.0.0-13 was autosync'd, and it doesn't build due to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config moving. I've got a 4K debdiff that fixes the FTBFS.
* Kyral gives seth_k|lappy 10 bucks
<seth_k|lappy> sweet, I can eat tomorrow
<Mithrandir> StevenK: where's the diff?
<StevenK> http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/wnn6-sdk_1.0.0-13ubuntu1.debdiff
<Mithrandir> you're whitelisted in the katie setup, right?
<StevenK> I am.
<StevenK> I just need to attend a TB meeting and beg for upload rights. :-)
<Mithrandir> uploaded
<Mithrandir> fuck
<StevenK> (And get my u.c address, but that's another problem.)
<Mithrandir> why is it a native package?
<Mithrandir> please kick the Debian maintainer to have that fixed.
<Kyral> StevenK: you dont have your @ubuntu yet either?
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I shall. I was going to file my patch in the BTS
<StevenK> Kyral: Nope.
<StevenK> Well, at least I don't think so.
<Kyral> StevenK: join me in pinging elmo tomorrow after the CC Meeting ;P
<Mithrandir> StevenK: it's probably an oversight on his part.  Anyway, it's already uploaded, so.
<Kyral> Mithrandir: you MOTU?
* StevenK just checked - still no.
<StevenK> Kyral: When is the CC meeting?
<Kyral> StevenK: Tomorrow....no time yet
<Mithrandir> Kyral: no. :-)
<StevenK> Yeah, that happened with the TB meeting, and I missed it.
<Kyral> StevenK: I'll just idle in there all day lol
<Mithrandir> Kyral: I predate the MOTU structure. ;-)
<Kyral> this is miffing me now
<Kyral> I have a package on REVU that only needs one more vote
<Mithrandir> that is, I was one of the people who were present when we came up with the name etc.
<Kyral> damn you are an old timer lol
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Thanks, I just got the katie mail.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: woo katie. :-)
<Kyral> who is katie? </Dumb Question>
<StevenK> The archive scripts.
<Mithrandir> Kyral: the program which sends you email when you upload something.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: next time, I'd love it if you didn't have absolute paths in your patches, since patch -p didn't cope well with it.
<Kyral> oh I was thinking it was a real person
<seth_k|lappy> lol
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Blame debdiff
<Mithrandir> StevenK: use interdiff instead. :-)
<minghua> debian use girl names for their infrastructure script names
<Kyral> ah
<Mithrandir> minghua: for now.  They're going away, though.
<StevenK> Well, to be pedantic, jennifer sends the email, since katie is just a library now.
<Kyral> I'd love to upload a new version of EasyChem with my @ubuntu lol
<minghua> Mithrandir: yeah, dak is supposed to supersede quite a few girls, but I suppose not all?
<Mithrandir> minghua: dak is just a name for the whole suite of scripts.
<Mithrandir> but yes, there'll be a dak $foo command
<Mithrandir> I thought they all were going away, but I haven't watched that space closely.
<Mithrandir> also, people tend to use the name katie and dak somewhat interchangeably.
<minghua> well, as you said, the name will become a command anyway
<zul> hey
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Kyral> hey
<minghua> hi zul, sistpoty
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> stumbleupon broken :[
<seth_k|lappy> Can a MOTU push this tiny little upload for me? It just adds a Categories line to a .desktop file. It's https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/qt-x11-free/+bug/5817
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5817: x11-free (Ubuntu) - qt3-designer: missing category in .desktop file In: qt-x11-free (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Kubuntu Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/5817
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: I'll take a look
<seth_k|lappy> thanks sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: nope, can't do that... this is a main package
<raphink> hi sistpoty :)
<sistpoty> hi raphink
<raphink> sistpoty: would you have time to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1105 too ?
<seth_k|lappy> sistpoty, um, I thought it said universe... Filename: pool/universe/q/qt-x11-free/qt3-designer_3.3.5-1ubuntu4_i386.deb
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: ah, k... I just looked at bug title
<sistpoty> raphink: it's in the q ;)
<seth_k|lappy> phew, you scared me for a second sistpoty ;) I thought I messed up again
<raphink> sistpoty: oh you plan a q for your reviews ? :)
<sistpoty> no... q for my work-queue ;)
<raphink> huuu
* raphink thinks it's time for bed ... may be why /me doesn't understand everything
<sistpoty> hehe... /me is a little bit tired as well
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: phew... that'
<sistpoty> +s a 17mb source package... maybe I'll do that tomorrow
<seth_k|lappy> np, should I assign it to a different team than Kubuntu team so you remember?
<seth_k|lappy> or is it okay, you'll just put it in the queue ;)
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: args... wrong again... I just downloaded qt-x11-free :/
<seth_k|lappy> no sistpoty, that's right
<seth_k|lappy> qt3-designer is provided by qt-x11-free
<seth_k|lappy> there are several apps in that source package
<seth_k|lappy> oh wait, but you downloaded the whole... never mind :P
<seth_k|lappy> hehe
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: hm... but qt-x11-free *is* in main
<seth_k|lappy> ahhhhhh
<seth_k|lappy> confusing
<seth_k|lappy> :)
<minghua> universe binary package from main source, it seems? :-)
<sistpoty> yep
<raphink> oo
<raphink> intersting
<raphink> didn't know that could happen
<raphink> ;)
<seth_k|lappy> I dunno, I can't even find qt-x11-free on packages.ubuntu.com
<raphink> obviously the opposite couldn't be
<seth_k|lappy> I didn't know you could do that either
<minghua> Hmm, SVK is apparently quite buggy
<raphink> having the source in universe building packages in main would break the system logic
<raphink> s/system logic/logic of the system/
<seth_k|lappy> okay, well thank you anyways sistpoty, for taking time for me :)
<sistpoty> np seth_k|lappy
<minghua> seth_k|lappy: I suppose you didn't check the "source packages" checkbox :-)
<seth_k|lappy> minghua, yeah, I found it afterwards
<seth_k|lappy> ooh, hi SloMoSnail, did you ever have a chance to REVU kmobiletools? ;)
<raphink> hi SloMoSnail
<sistpoty> raphink: kyamo looks nice... if it builds well, I'll upload it
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> I've got autostart too : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1209
<raphink> quite small
<raphink> ;)
<sistpoty> btw.: raphink: is software on kde-apps listed permanently? if not, it might be prudent to update the link in copyright to sourceforge
<raphink> they are listed permanently as far as i know
<raphink> only there are filters
<sistpoty> ah, ok :)
<raphink> mostly on the opinion on apps
<seth_k|lappy> sistpoty, if you have time again, package "kmobiletools" on REVU needs review+advocates (Riddell already advocated)
<raphink> but there's often more chances to find an app on kde-apps when it has been there
<raphink> than to be sure the website still exists
<raphink> for small projects
<sistpoty> I really like the screenshots there :)
* ajmitch decides to get a couple of merges uploaded while he has the chance
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: ok, I'll take a look...
<seth_k|lappy> thanks :)
<Kyral> anyone know if the Prism2 wireless chipset is supported in the kernel?
<raphink> hi ajmitch
<raphink> sistpoty: you mean on kde-apps?
<sistpoty> raphink: yep
* raphink thinks a new version of debs should contain small screenshots
<raphink> so users can see what apps look like from adept or synaptic
* raphink loves to see what apps look like before using them
<raphink> it often helps me better to understand wht they do
<raphink> than the description that is given
<bmonty> raphink: what about console apps?
<raphink> even a screenshot of a console app makes me happy
<raphink> because I ccan just see what kind of output I can expect
<seth_k|lappy> well you're just easy to please then :)
<raphink> from what kind of arguments given
<raphink> seth_k|lappy: there's nothing wrong with this :)
<seth_k|lappy> nope ;)
<desrt> raphink; the .deb is downloaded only after you decide to install the package
<raphink> desrt: yes I know that, so then a database linked to Packages.gz is what I meant ;)
<desrt> raphink; for what you're suggesting you'd need a screenshot server or something (since screenshots are definitely too large to include inside the apt data)
<raphink> sorry for the confusion
<hub> Kyral: prism2 should work out of the box
<raphink> the apt data could contain links to screenshots
<Kyral> hub: tell that to my friend in #ubuntu
<raphink> that woudl then be loaded from the server in adept/synaptic
<bmonty> hopefully it only grabs the screenshot when you want to look at it!
<raphink> just an idea though ;)
<hub> Kyral: I'm not on #ubuntu
<Kyral> hub: said that the 2.4 kernel of DSL picked it up but the 2.6 didn't
<Kyral> hub: whats the module name if you know
<raphink> desrt: i've got some ideas on what the future of such apps could be
<raphink> more like finkkommander imo
<raphink> and using translations too
<raphink> so you don't have to understand english in order to find the app you need
<hub> Kyral: prism2
<desrt> ah.  like translated package names?
<desrt> or just translated descriptions?
<bmonty> brb
<raphink> translated descriptions desrt
<minghua> the problem with localized package description is never the package manager (apt supports it now for that matter), but the translations of the descriptions themselves
<desrt> it's a shame that translation is an n*m problem
<raphink> using multiple entries in debian/control for example
<raphink> minghua there could be a way of translating descriptions using rosetta maybe
<raphink> although i have no idea how easy it would be to adapt rosetta to translating debian/control files
<minghua> raphink: not sure, never used rosetta myself seriously
<raphink> rosetta is a great translation enhancer
* minghua is a console guy and uses vim to translate .po's
<raphink> hehe
* raphink is a nano fan 
<jsgotangco> minghua, are you maintaining scim in universe at the moment?
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, hello sir
<minghua> jsgotangco: yes
<jsgotangco> minghua, ok so its ok if i refer you to the korean team? they can help
<minghua> jsgotangco: sure, would be wonderful to get some help (I'm the one-man team now :-)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I rate a sir now? impressive
<sistpoty> raphink: build complete, however lintian still complains: kyamo: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/applications/kde/kyamo.desktop
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, yes, being the MOTU professor that you are heh
<sistpoty> raphink: maybe you could remove execute rights for this?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: not a professor
<ajmitch> sistpoty: the merge list isn't shrinking fast enough :)
<raphink> Oh I dn't have this in lintian sistpoty, that's interesting
<raphink> so maybe I could dh_install with 644 mode
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I already did wipe some removed apps today ;)
<raphink> hmm no
<raphink> wrong
<sistpoty> raphink: it's in lintian if you run it on the deb
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> I don't have the deb right here I belive
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I've uploaded a couple today, and have a couple to request syncs for
<raphink> let's see
<raphink> oh yes right it says it
<raphink> :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: and i guess tiber is a little "slow" atm... since I'm building ghc6 atm ;)
<raphink> sistpoty: ok well you decide whether it deserve to be fixed ;)
<raphink> if so, i'll do it tomorrow
<raphink> too tired right now
<sistpoty> raphink: it's only a small change... I'll give my ok now and since the debdiff will be small, I'll upload it once you have it fixed... ok?
<raphink> sure
<raphink> :)
<raphink> and I'll report to upstream
<raphink> since it comes from them
<sistpoty> :)
<raphink> I shan't use a patch for this i guess
<raphink> only a chmod in rules
<raphink> sistpoty: what chmod shall I use instead ? 644 right?
<sistpoty> raphink: erm... no idea for desktop files... but 644 seems to make sense
<raphink> yes I just checked on other desktop files in the system
<raphink> it's 644
<raphink> quite logical
<ajmitch> sistpoty: still.. 485 merges done so far is pretty good
<Kyral> okay bug
<Kyral> for some reason the prism2_cs module isn't included in the default install
<sistpoty> ajmitch: MoM is still two days ahead of the merge list :/
<ajmitch> sistpoty: oh? how so?
<ajmitch> what do you mean by 2 days ahead?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: latest MoM log I parsed for the merge list is from 12/17... latest MoM log present is 12/19
<raphink> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1249
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> so reparse it ;)
<raphink> changed to 644
<seth_k|lappy> Anyone have a quick tip on how I could find every occurrence of a string in all files in a directory, and replace the string with another?
<raphink> that's one line diff ;)
<ajmitch> there shouldn't be too many more merges for us to do
<ajmitch> find & sed :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: will do that once the next log comes in... ok? if you want it earlier, I mailed to admin@tiber how to do it ;)
<raphink> I'd say find -> $file variable
<seth_k|lappy> ajmitch, find instead of rgrep?
<raphink> then for $file -> sed with a tmp
* seth_k|lappy has some manpage reading to do then, if that's the easiest way :P
<ajmitch> raphink: sounds overly complex
<raphink> ajmitch: well it's 3:47AM so i'm complex
<raphink> lol
<ajmitch> hehe
<seth_k|lappy> oh psh, here we go. Kfilereplace will do it
* seth_k|lappy runs away with his GUI tool
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I'm not in a rush, I'm going away in a couple of days
<raphink> I should rather be dreaming straight than trying to think straight
<ajmitch> and there's no way I'll get all my merges cleared before Christmas
<sistpoty> ah... holidays?
<raphink> sistpoty: got my link?
<ajmitch> yeah
<sistpoty> raphink: yep... just rebuilding
<ajmitch> I'll be away for only a week
<raphink> ok :)
<raphink> well I just added 644 to dh_install
<ajmitch> and after that I'll have *lots* of spare time for ubuntu ;)
<raphink> :)
<sistpoty> yeehaa :)
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> broken i386 buildd
<ajmitch> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
<ajmitch> Build environment unusable, giving back
<ajmitch> yay
<raphink> :s
<raphink> sistpoty: I have to admit i couldn't test the change on a dapper box, since I have no dapper box here, only a dapper pbuilder
<raphink> and no chroot installed so far
<raphink> so if you get sure it fixes the chmod stuff it's good :)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<sistpoty> raphink: but you can test installing w. piuparts ;)
<raphink> I'm a breezy right now
<sistpoty> raphink: or just look inside the deb
<ajmitch> and you can unpack your pbuilder base tarball for a permanent chroot
<raphink> sure sistpoty
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> well it's too late to think about this
<raphink> lol
<raphink> and I just know adding 644 to dh_install is enough to install the file with 644 chmod
<sistpoty> raphink: cp: cannot stat `./644': No such file or directory
<raphink> argh
<raphink> hmm
<ajmitch> hehe
<raphink> grrr
<raphink> mooh
* ajmitch uploads another
<raphink> sorry for that sistpoty :(
<sistpoty> raphink: np... trying to built it wasn't really much work... at least not human work ;)
<raphink> I forgot -m
<raphink> so it's
<raphink> dh_install -m 644 myfile
<raphink> let's change it
<raphink> and this time I'll build it to check
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> sistpoty: pb is that dh_fixperms is ran after the install rule
<raphink> so it overrides the dh_install -m 644
<raphink> do you think I can move the install of the desktop file to a post-install rule?
<raphink> :s
<sistpoty> raphink: not quite sure how exactly cdbs handles this
<raphink> yes
<raphink> I think I found a way sistpoty
<raphink> I'll try it
<raphink> :)
<SEJeff> Kyral: ping
<sistpoty> raphink: using dh_desktop or s.th.?
<Kyral> SEJeff: pong
<raphink> DB_FIXPERMS_EXCLUDE := src/kyamo.desktop
<SEJeff> Kyral: You do the kernel / initrd stuff right?
<Kyral> SEJeff: whaa? No...I'm just a MOTU Wannabe
<SEJeff> Kyral: I must be smokin' crack tonight... sorry
<Kyral> I mean I know my way around a kernel compile, but I don't trust myself to compile a kernel for thousands of people
<sistpoty> SEJeff: you might want to ask benc in -devel
<raphink> I'll see if that does it
<SEJeff> sistpoty: Thanks
<ajmitch> yay, another sync to request
<minghua> okay, tomorrow's CC meeting time is still TBD, I don't think I'll make it
<raphink> pffffff
<raphink> yeah it' shard to be on time when it's planned on TBD
<bmonty> ajmitch: elmo has been getting the syncs done quickly
<ajmitch> bmonty: yeah, I'm just building up a list of them so I just make 1 request
<ajmitch>  du -sh /home/ajmitch/debian/pbuilder/
<ajmitch> 5.3G    /home/ajmitch/debian/pbuilder/
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I think I should clean that up ;)
<bmonty> yeah
<StevenK> Is that your results dir?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> results is only 800
<ajmitch> 2.6G    /home/ajmitch/debian/pbuilder/build
<ajmitch> builds not getting cleaned up
<StevenK> steven@broken:~% ls /var/cache/pbuilder/build
<StevenK> 1165  14690  1630  17333  20376  20899  2167  21957  24697  28804  4585
<StevenK> Seems I have the same problem.
<ajmitch> > ls
<bmonty> should ubuntu debs create python2.3 packages at all?
<ajmitch> 10319/  1138/  1152/  11882/  16209/  18391/  20098/  20220/  20975/  23938/  25022/  27598/  31232/  31728/  4294/  6435/  8332/
<minghua> don't forget to umount the proc's and dev's beform rm them
<ajmitch> bmonty: they still can
<ajmitch> minghua: these are old
<ajmitch> minghua: the most recent is > a month old
<bmonty> ajmitch: yeah, but is there any point in it?  should python2.3 code work with 2.4?
<minghua> ajmitch: depend on when was your last reboot ;-)
<ajmitch> minghua: about 3 days ago ;)
<ajmitch> stupid athlon xp & its overheating
<ajmitch> bmonty: there is a point in it
<ajmitch> but doko is working on redoing the system system in debian & ubuntu
<ajmitch> s/system/python/
<StevenK> Yeah, my dual Athlon is starting to overheat due to summer.
<ajmitch> CPU:         +83C  (low  =    +0C, high =   +70C)  ALARM (HIGH)
<ajmitch> that's sitting fairly idle
<ajmitch> once it gets above 92/93, it reboots ;)
<minghua> new scim-hangul built and installed, and no segfaults - seems a good start :-)
<StevenK> Mine just hard locks. :-/
<StevenK> I wouldn't mind a pleiter (sp?) for both of my processors.
<jsgotangco> minghua, awesome
<ajmitch> peltier
<jsgotangco> minghua, 0.2.1?
<minghua> jsgotangco: I'll probably be co-maintainer of scim-hangul pretty soon :-)
<minghua> jsgotangco: yes
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: kmobiletools is fine... will upload in a minute
<seth_k|lappy> sistpoty, awesome! thank you :)
<bmonty> my father-in-law uses a 120VAC fan from one of his HF amplifiers to keep his CPU nice and cool
<bmonty> sounds like a jet engine though
<seth_k|lappy> sistpoty, notice it's a new package... am I supposed to have 3 advocates first?
<ajmitch> bmonty: sadly my computer is in my bedroom
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: no, it's 2 advocates
<ajmitch> so I can't have anything too noisy :)
<seth_k|lappy> ah, okay
* StevenK has his noisy beast in his study.
<lifeless> ajmitch: earplugs
<StevenK> It's nice having a whole house to spread out in.
<minghua> jsgotangco: what are the korean team you mentioned planning to do?
<bmonty> ajmitch: its all about moving air past the heat sinks
<ajmitch> bmonty: I know
<minghua> jsgotangco: are they working on something similar to ubuntu-jp?
<bmonty> this hotel internet connection sucks...and I have to pay
<jsgotangco> minghua, well the korean team knows what to do with regards to test and bugzilla, but doesn't know where to start and im helping them on pointing to resources...
<jsgotangco> (i can't even read hangeul for starters)
<jsgotangco> minghua, but they're interested on what ubuntu-jp has done and want to do something similar
<jsgotangco> (interesting languge though)
<minghua> jsgotangco: I see.  I've seen Atie posting some nice bug summary on BetterCJKReport page, I like his approach
<jsgotangco> yeah he's the most english-proficient among the group i'd say
<jsgotangco> (i think he's in houston)
<minghua> oh really?
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: I've archived kmobiletools on revu, since it should hit dapper once elmo has approved it
* minghua is in houston as well
* minghua dreams about a LocoTeam :-)
* bmonty is currently in San Antonio
<Kyral> lol
* jsgotangco should start learning one of the 3 CJK languages
<seth_k|lappy> cheers sistpoty
<minghua> Hmm, apparently reloading GTK IM module needs a gnome restart
<minghua> be right back
<bmonty> night everyone
<minghua> ogra: ping
<minghua> some one really should clean up the crap gnome-cups-add spit out when started at console
<seth_k|lappy> weird. libgpod has version number 0.2.0-1ubuntu2, which means that there must be a Debian package. But it's not on packages.debian.org
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: OTOH if a package is ubuntu only, it still has the -XubuntuY suffix
<seth_k|lappy> I thought we started with -0ubuntuX
<seth_k|lappy> instead of -1
<seth_k|lappy> maybe just a mistake
<ajmitch> probably was a mistake
<ajmitch> check the changelog for who to lart
<ajmitch> or it might have been an apt-get.org import
<seth_k|lappy> no changelog, that's the weird thing. the whole directory doesn't even exist
<ajmitch> strange
<sistpoty> libgpod (0.2.0-1) dapper; urgency=low <-- initial version
<ajmitch> blame sebuild
<seth_k|lappy> alright
<seth_k|lappy> http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/libg/libgpod/ has no changelog? sistpoty, where'd you find that?
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: in the sourcepackage ;)
<ajmitch> seth_k|lappy: by grabbing the source? :)
<ajmitch> I looked it up on the dapper-changes list
<seth_k|lappy> haha, just making sure there wasn't an easier way
<seth_k|lappy> I was in the middle of grabbing the source ;)
<raphink> dh_fixperms -m doesnt' seem to work :s
<raphink> I mean
<raphink> dh_install -m
* minghua wonders if anyone here uses input method
<minghua> XIM has been broken here for about one month
<minghua> I really should go submit a bug
<sistpoty> raphink: have you tried DEB_DH_FIXPERMS_ARGS?
<raphink> I've tried quite a lot of things
<raphink> I'll go for a simple chmod after the dh_insta
<raphink> and i'll chang emore things actually
<raphink> I need a patch for pot files for rosetta
<sistpoty> raphink: maybe even DEB_FIXPERMS_EXCLUDE could do the trick
<raphink> I tried it sistpoty
<raphink> it didn't work
<sistpoty> hm
<raphink> ;)
<seth_k|lappy> sistpoty, if I am doing a new upstream version of libgpod, it's okay to reset to 0.3.0-0ubuntu1 (instead of 0.3.0-1ubuntu) right?
<sistpoty> seth_k|lappy: yes
<seth_k|lappy> alright :) onto REVU it goes
<raphink> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1251
<raphink> and the diff you want to look at is http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=1105&upid2=1251
<raphink> (diff with the version you approved)
<raphink> this is nto a very bid diff
<raphink> I added my changes to changelog, which doesn't affect building
<raphink> added the chmod to rules, which I tested
<raphink> and added a patch to generate pot files for rosetta
<raphink> anyway
<raphink> good night everybody ;)
<raphink> bye
<sistpoty> gn8 raphink
<minghua> wonderful, uim build-depends on libqt3-mt-dev
<minghua> now I can do something else when my pbuilder is downloading
<minghua> and I suppose I can starting help merging Qt packages now :-)
<seth_k|lappy> bleh, I kinda feel the same way, gtkpod is in universe but part of libgpod isn't, now I have to wait for a new libgpod before I can do gtkpod, unless I want to set up a local apt repository
<seth_k|lappy> Is there any process for helping package *main* packages? I'd ideally like to get libgpod 0.3 in... would ajmitch know? ;)
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> package it
<ajmitch> write up an inclusion report
<ajmitch> bribe pitti
<seth_k|lappy> no, libgpod is already in main... I just wanted to update it from 0.2 -> 0.3
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> bug seb, he seems to be the one who cares for it :)
<seth_k|lappy> alrighty :) thanks
<sistpoty> ok, I'm off to bed now... gn8 everyone
<minghua> okay, I think I've pinned down the bug that made users cry "scim in breezy is BROKEN!"
<minghua> happy ending for a busy day
<minghua> ogra: ping?
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<minghua> good night everybody
<seth_k|lappy> whoa, my local apt repository worked! fancy
<crimsun> people need to get over the fact that an MTA isn't installed by default in the desktop
<ajmitch> but the desktop is Under! Attack!
<crimsun> I mean, it's REALLY difficult to more /var/mail/$USER
<seth_k|lappy> not just the desktop
<seth_k|lappy> UBUNTU is under attack!
<ajmitch> oh sorry
<seth_k|lappy> the very core of its being
<seth_k|lappy> or sommat
* ajmitch feels like marking that thread as read & moving on
<ajmitch> someone complaining about kubuntu sucking
<ajmitch> because it didn't ask for a root password, etc
<crimsun> yeah, my 'd' key is definitely getting a workout
<ajmitch> mutt is great for that
<crimsun> :)
<dholbach> good morning MOTUs and MOTU hopefuls of course! :-)
<lucas> hi
<dholbach> tomorrow is BUG DAY! hope you help all to make it a success :)
<jsgotangco> gnome-power-manager rocks
<dholbach> do you think it'd make sense to make universe-specific bugs lists?
<jsgotangco> high traffic?
<dholbach> err, i rather meant "these are UNCONFIRMED bugs", "these are NEEDINFO bugs", ...
<dholbach> stuff like that
<sivang> nice, seems that mono was fixed, wasn't it? monodoc now installs cleanly :)
<dholbach> "old bugs to review"
<sivang> ajmitch: you're reading that on u-d ?
<ajmitch> ?
<ajmitch> 'that' is very non-specific
<dholbach> janimo: hey, how are you?
<janimo> dholbach, hey, fine thanks :)
<janimo> you?
<dholbach> me too, thanks :)
<janimo> is there a command line tool to quickly check current versions of packages in debian/ubuntu w/o having the specific distros installed?
<janimo> a look in their pools on the web
<StevenK> madison-lite
<janimo> thanks I'll check it out
<janimo> nope, it checks a local debian archive
<janimo> and I don't have a mirror here
<ajmitch> it doesn't need a full mirror
<ajmitch> just the packages & sources lists
<janimo> ajmitch, thanks. Still it needs updating those from time to time, if it does not peek in the pool directly as http://packages.debian.org does
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> I have it updating in cron here
<thesaltydog> is the "system tools" menu going to disappear in dapper?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited should know
<thesaltydog> hi dholbach, yes my question is subsequent to that page reading..
<dholbach> well, there's not much left in there
<thesaltydog> my gnome friend told me that the "rightE place for baobab is "system tools", as nautilus..
<thesaltydog> the developers in cvs agreed on that... what do you suggest to do? Move it in accessories?
<dholbach> maybe
<dholbach> nautilus? system tools?
<dholbach> maybe we should take the discussion to #ubuntu-desktop
<thesaltydog> yes, ubuntu has moved nautilus in accessories, but if you look at the cvs, nautilus desktop is in system tools..
<dholbach> in dapper it's not in accessoires
<thesaltydog> I will contact #ubuntu-desktop
<thesaltydog> where is nautilus in dapper (next week I will upgrade to it...)?
<dholbach> it's hidden
<dholbach> and that's the best they could do
<thesaltydog> mmh..
<thesaltydog> thanks dholbach , I'm asking to seb128 on ubuntu-desktop
<lucas> thesaltydog: don't upgrade to dapper unless you know what you are doing
<thesaltydog> thanks lucas, usually I know what I am doing...:-)
<lucas> :)
<lucas> there are lots of posts in the forums or the mailing lists by users who thought that dapper was actually usable for a random user
<thesaltydog> thanks lucas, but as a developer since warty... I should know ! :-)
* lucas should have /whois first :)
<asbin> siretart: is it ok on REVU that anybody can't see the *_source.changes of any package ? It's "Forbidden" ...
<Gloubiboulga> hi universe
<siretart> asbin: yes. you don't need the .changes file for reviewing. only for uploading
<raphink> dholbach: are you there?
<dholbach> raphink: ouai
<raphink> :)
<raphink> dholbach: I modified kyamo accordingly to sistpoty's requests yesterday
<raphink> you had advocated it before
<dholbach> the link is?
<raphink> could you have a look at the changes and advocate again please ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1251
<raphink> the diff from the version you advocated is http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=1105&upid2=1251
<dholbach> raphink: nice one, i'll upload it.
<dholbach> (if you have no objetions)
<raphink> thanks :)
<raphink> sure :)
<raphink> I've been working close to upstream on this one
<raphink> from the very first released version on kde-aps
<raphink> so he'll be happy to know that :)
<dholbach> excellent -- it's nice to have close relationships to upstream
<raphink> yes :)
<zakame> evening all! just got back home! :D
<raphink> hi zakame
<jsgotangco> yo zakame
<raphink> any news on the time of CC meeting?
<jsgotangco> raphink, nil, unless you want to start a CC revolt
<zakame> yeah, when's the CC meet?
<jsgotangco> heh
<zakame> jsgotangco: buwahaha
<raphink> jsgotangco: lol
<raphink> well i'm more on a DADVSI revolt right now
<raphink> but hey
<jsgotangco> we can grab dholbach and make him stage one
<raphink> I'm not member yet, so I shan't revolt about the CC meeting
<dholbach> jsgotangco: i'm on bug triage stage one :)
<jsgotangco> gahhh its bug day jeezz
* jsgotangco goes back to productive work to catch up with triage
<dholbach> tomorrow is bug day for everybody :)
<dholbach> today it's just some weirdos doing it, but feel free to join ;)
* jsgotangco is no weirdo
<dholbach> or i'll have all the funny bugs done until tomorrow :)
<jsgotangco> hehe
<zakame> dholbach: ooh, update /topic in #u-bugs then :) its still in 11.24
<dholbach> jsgotangco: i meant me :)
* jsgotangco calls murphy here boy...
<dholbach> so you kick her again?
<dholbach> zakame: thanks for the heads up
<zakame> np :)
<jsgotangco> no i'll ask her if she's been neglected lately because of some triage..
<dholbach> jsgotangco: if she could speak... i think she'd say YES in capital letters ;)
<jsgotangco> poor dog
<dholbach> but we'll go for a big walk, when i go renting the car :)
<dholbach> so that's fine
<jsgotangco> dholbach, i just had a can of red bull, the evil stuff that we love at 10pm, im no a roll....
<dholbach> you're what?
* dholbach doesn't understand.
<jsgotangco> blah silly fingers having a mind of its own
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, the wiki page about bug day is also wrong
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: would you mind to fix it?
<Gloubiboulga> no problem
<dholbach> cool, thanks
<Gloubiboulga> done :)
* raphink waits for TBD on his clock
<pappan> how can one participate in motu
<raphink> pappan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto
<raphink> hmm no sorry
<raphink> :s
<raphink> huhu
<zakame> wb pappan
<zakame> pappan: see /topic , there's a lot of things you can do here in MOTU ;)
<pappan> yes i saw the url
<pappan> but its not clear what i have to do for eg if i want to fix a bug
<pappan> am i missing some url ??
<pappan> i am having connection problems i guess
<zakame> pappan: HelpingWithBugs on the wiki gives a good overview :) also see #ubuntu-bugs
<pappan> zakame: ty i am checking out that
<zakame> pappan: tomorrow is the bug day as well, so count on a lot of ppl helping you soon :)
<pappan> zakame: kewl
<pappan> zakame: are you working on any bugs ?
<zakame> pappan: none atm, as I just got back home from a loooong trip, still catching up with mails and stuff
<pappan> zakame: i guess by adding comments we can get attention, right ?
<pappan> * comments in bug reports *
<zakame> of course, as long as they're helpful :)
<zakame> do you already have a launchpad acct?
<pappan> zakame: yes
<pappan> also do we want prior experience in the products i am fixing the bug for ?
<raphink> wb pappan
<pappan> raphink: ty
<pappan> now looking at MOTU packaging section
<pappan> i am having a live cd of ubuntu now
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> if you need help with packaging, don't hesitate to ask
<raphink> were you told about REVU yet?
<pappan> raphink: no
<pappan> but i saw the mentions of REVU in the pages
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/
<raphink> this is the main thing we use for packaging stuff in universe
<raphink> this interface allows you to upload packages of yours (once accepted as packager) and to get them reviewed
<raphink> you have have a look at the entries
<raphink> they contain links to the files
<pappan> i saw some of them
<raphink> and comments from reviewers
<raphink> when a package is approved by two MOTUs, it's uploaded in universe
<pappan> so i can take a open source project and make it get compiled in ubuntu
<pappan> is that what is needed ?
<zakame> pappan: REVU is basically the replacement for the UniverseCandidates wikipage
<pappan> zakame: ok
<pappan> but i am not finding any clear documentation on anything about how to participate ( i am newbue in contributing to open soure )
<pappan> like what are the things i should do to participate in packaging
* pappan reading now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackagesPolicy
<raphink> pappan: begin with reading the Debian New Maintainer's Guide imo
<zakame> pappan: the `maint-guide' package has that DNMG
<pappan> ty i got the debian new maintainers guide.. let me go thru it
<zakame> pappan: rocking
<zakame> gn8 all :D
<raphink> hi dholbach :)
<raphink> pappan: good luck :)
<pappan> raphink: ty
<pappan> raphink: i was thinking of vsftpd but its already available lol
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> pappan: look on kde-apps or gnome-apps
<raphink> there you can find inspiration for gui apps
<pappan> raphink: yes i will look into it
<raphink> ok
<pappan> raphink: time to go for me .. see you tomorrow
<pappan> bye all
<raphink> cye
<raphink> bye
<Kyral> Okay if anyone is awake I have a question about how to pull something off
<raphink> slomo_: I moved autostart to kcontrol-autostart. You advocated it when it was named autostart, so here's the new link if you feel like advocating it under the new name : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1255
<JohnnyMast> good afternoon boys (and girls ??)
<Gloubiboulga> hello JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> every thing alright ?
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<JohnnyMast> Gloubiboulga mighty good news
<Gloubiboulga> Yes, I'm on holiday :)
<Gloubiboulga> JohnnyMast, I'm working on a package named libtranslate0, but the source dir is names libtranslate-0.99
<Gloubiboulga> so the package become a debian-native one
<JohnnyMast> then rename the dir if you didnt do a debuild for the first run yet
<JohnnyMast> (not sure if thats allowed)
<JohnnyMast> at least debian forbits it
<Gloubiboulga> hum... that's the problem
<JohnnyMast> to quote "dont mess with the underlaying directory under debian/
<JohnnyMast> "
<JohnnyMast> but, im packing kryptor now wich i maintain upstream as well so i could rename the directory because its created by my own team
<Gloubiboulga> yes, but i don't maintain upstream...
<Gloubiboulga> Changing the package name is not a good idea either I guess
<JohnnyMast> well no its ok btw because the upload will be
<JohnnyMast> libtranslate-0.99-0ubuntu1
<Gloubiboulga> ok then, I'll change the package name
<JohnnyMast> to be sure tackle some MOTU
<Gloubiboulga> Is there any awake MOTU around ?
<Kyral> Hmm
<Kyral> what is the best way to apply a bunch of customizations to a default Ubuntu install?
<Kyral> at one sweep
<tseng> sabyon?
<Kyral> ...I haven't even considered Sabyon...
<Kyral> ty tseng :D
<tseng> np
<Kyral> can I somehow save the setup so I can deploy it?
<tseng> yes
<Kyral> gracie
<tseng> but dont ask me details :)
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I only know of Sabyon from Jeff's talk at Ubuntu Below Zero
<Kyral> uuhh
<Kyral> tseng, is sabyon in the repos?
<tseng> uh
<Kyral> I can't find it...nor can google find it
<tseng> maybe not
<Kyral> oy....
<Kyral> does it have a homepage?
<Hieronymus> Kyral: I think it is.. Treenaks told me about it once, and I remember installing it
<Amaranth> sabayon
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> thats why
<Kyral> I misspelled
<Amaranth> edubuntu is appearently using it
<Kyral> So I'd still need to tweak our AFS Package
<ogra> Amaranth, nope, not as long as you cant use it over ssh tunnels ..
<Amaranth> oh yeah
<Amaranth> isn't that an X thing?
<Amaranth> i wouldn't think sabayon would have to do anything special
<ogra> i think its an xnest prob, yes
<ogra> but i havent looked into it yet
<Kyral> Yah I just need to deploy it in our lab
<Amaranth> oh, you can't do ssh forwarding of an xnest window?
<Kyral> so I can set it to one machine and use something like Rsync
<elektranox> what's the name of the package, including dh_make?
<Amaranth> elektranox: dh-make
<ogra> you can, but it wants to assign a new $DISPLAY ...
<elektranox> thx
<ogra> that doesnt work through oe tunnel
<ogra> *one
<minghua> good afternoon
* Mez sighs and downloads 10,000 emails
<Mez> I really shoulda set the damn thing onn holiday mode earlier
<Kyral> hehehe
<Kyral> okay someone remind me to ping elmo after the CC Meeting
<Kyral> aw hell I'll ping him now
<Kyral> if he's not busy
<elektranox> mh does sb. know a tutorial about the makefile?
<herve> hello
<Kyral> I <3 PBuilders
<Kyral> hmmm, HAL is being removed?
<lfittl> hal depends on libdbus-1-1 and dbus, but new dbus conflicts libdbus1-1, therefore it is only a temporary problem ;)
<Kyral> yah.....but if HAL goes byebye, isn't my system boned?
<lfittl> no, mine works almost fine without hal
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> what DOES Hal do anyway?
<lfittl> seems to do deliver messages from the hardware to some programs
<lfittl> using dbus
<herve> hal = hardware abstraction layer
<Kyral> I knew what it meant
<herve> but I guess you can read the package description ;-)
<Treenaks> the volume manager uses it (automounting etc.)
<Kyral> I'll hold back on upgrading then until the problem is fixed
<lfittl> should be fixed soon, new hal is already uploaded, just needs to be built ;)
<herve> Kyral, my policy is to never allow removal of ubuntu-desktop
<Kyral> herve: I've done that many times
<Kyral> Like I have said before, my system isn't exactly a normal install
<lfittl> Kyral: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/hal ;)
<lfittl> The i386 buildd is still not working?
<lfittl> who should I talk to to get information about this?
<lucas> lfittl: your builds will be re-scheduled
<lucas> so you don't have to worry
<lfittl> k, thanks
<Gloubiboulga> I have a little problem with the name of a package (a lib)
<Gloubiboulga> The package should be name libtranslate0, but the source dir has a different name
<Gloubiboulga> can I change the name of the source dir ?
<lfittl> source dir name is not important as far as I know, what error do you get?
<Gloubiboulga> the package is a debian native one
<lfittl> what version do you have in debian/changelog ?
<Gloubiboulga> libtranslate0
<lfittl> no, I mean what
<lfittl> version is listed on the top of the changelog entry
<Gloubiboulga> libtranslate0 (0.99-0ubuntu1) dapper; urgency=low
<lfittl> interesting, could you paste the build log somewhere?
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Gloubiboulga> I'll just rebuild it before :)
<lfittl> k :)
<lucas> Gloubiboulga: you understand what "debian native version" means ?
<Gloubiboulga> I think so
<lfittl> how is your .orig.tar.gz named?
<lucas> is it for REVU ?
<Gloubiboulga> lucas, yes
<lucas> or a merge ?
<lucas> ok
<Gloubiboulga> libtranslate_0.99.orig.tar.gz
<Gloubiboulga> it's been built with dh_make
<lfittl> source package name is libtranslate?
<Gloubiboulga> yes
<lfittl> then your changelog entry is wrong
<lfittl> it should be libtranslate (...) ...
<Gloubiboulga> then the package will be named the same way ?
<lfittl> the binary package will have the name you gave it in the debian/control file, and the source package will be libtranslate
<Gloubiboulga> ok :)
<Gloubiboulga> I have a lot of things to learn...
<Gloubiboulga> thanks for your help lfittl
<lfittl> no problem ;)
<Gloubiboulga> great, it works perfectly :)
<lfittl> perfect :)
<ajmitch> lucas: well done, welcome
<lucas> :-)
<Kyral> congratulations lucas
<lucas> thank you
* ajmitch didn't see the meeting in time to speak up 
<ajmitch> when was the time announced for it?
<Kyral> like 5 hours ago
<minghua> ahh, meeting
<Kyral> lifeless: PING!
<ogra> lifeless, ping ?
<sabdfl> azeem: ping
<ogra> azeem, ping as well ?
<ogra> heh, sabdfl beats me ...
<ajmitch> ah, a shame that azeem misses out this time (unless he shows up before end of meeting)
<Gloubiboulga> first time I see the big boss on irc :)
<ajmitch> really?
<ajmitch> he's on irc most days, it seems
<Gloubiboulga> I'm not on the good chans I think
<Kyral> congrats irvin
<irvin> thanks Kyral
<Kyral> Now you wanted to talk about that updates thing?
<irvin> i had to wake up early its 4am here
<irvin> sure thing
<irvin> packages.ubuntu.com is really great for finding packages
<Kyral> how hard would it be to make a cronjob of sorts that tracked updates over an interval, and at the end of that interval gathered all the updates into one download or ISO?
<irvin> that would be easy if one computer is always online
<Kyral> I'm thinking we just sit it on archive
<Kyral> or at least monitor archive
<Kyral> all updates to Breezy go into breezy-updates and breezy-security right?
<irvin> yes
<Kyral> I mean I use Dapper so I don't use them
<Kyral> and monitor Backports as well
<Kyral> Shall we draft a spec?
<irvin> there's a spec somewhere in the wiki
<irvin> wait i'll get it
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> This could be helpful for my school as well
<irvin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonBroadbandUsers
<Kyral> we have high-speed, but we have a bandwidth cap on us
<irvin> i see
<Kyral> Not a problem for Breezy users
<ajmitch> Kyral: bandwidth or data cap?
<Kyral> but a problem for Dapper users :D
<Kyral> ajmitch: bandwidth
<Kyral> capped at ~60 kbps
<ajmitch> right
* ajmitch has a 10GB data cap per month
<Kyral> ouch
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ajmitch> welcome to NZ ;)
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<irvin> i'm still sleepy. it's 4am here
<Gloubiboulga> it's time to sleep for me, good night !
<herve> bye
<JohnnyMast> ajmitch want to review ttb ?
<Tonio_> yop
<JohnnyMast> Tonio_ hi !
<JohnnyMast> raphink , ping
<raphink> hi JohnnyMast
<JohnnyMast> well remember commenting on ttb ?
<raphink> mhm
<JohnnyMast> sorry hi btw :)
<JohnnyMast> i fixed that things you noticed
<Tonio_> we're watching at the end of free software in france
<raphink> I'll brb
<Tonio_> direct live.....
<Tonio_> ufckin' politicians
<xhaker> anyone here can talk about eclipse issues in dapper? more like libswt3.1-gtk-java issue
<xhaker> who works with eclipse?
<xhaker> raphink, do you know who is "responsible" for the eclipse package?
<xhaker> packages!
<raphink> hmm no idea
<Kyral> Now I have to remember how to add an email address to my key
<raphink> Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers <pkg-java-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<xhaker> i know..
<raphink> Kyral: edit it and create a new id
<xhaker> but there is no Changed-by line
<xhaker> i doesn't look synched directly is it?
<raphink> no idea
<Kyral> raphink: adduid?
<raphink> hmm yes I think so
<raphink> I did it some time ago
* raphink thinks about leaving France and go abroad
<xhaker> raphink, where?
<raphink> no idea
<xhaker> canada?
<xhaker> lol
<raphink> but this country is a shame
<raphink> I used to be proud of it
<xhaker> sweden is pretty cool
<Kyral> Does anyone use Seahorse for GPG?
<raphink> in a few days, we'll be illegal using Linux here
<raphink> or so it seems
<xhaker> lol
<xhaker> can't be exactly that
<xhaker> that would be lame
<raphink> oh yes it can be
<raphink> they're about to vote a law
<raphink> that may make open-source software illegal in france
<raphink> the law is being discussed right now
<raphink> but there are like 10 people present
<raphink> becaues it's 10PM, it's christmas and the law has been considered an urgency by the experts
<sistpoty> raphink: is it true, that all programs that could distribute copyrighted material w.o. force using drm would then be illegal?
<raphink> so there can't be a democratic debate around it
<raphink> sistpoty: it seems so
<raphink> Ooo would be illegal, VLC, and many more
<raphink> that's what it seems
<raphink> no wonder I'm ready to be judged for this if I'm caught
<sistpoty> raphink: all email-progs/web-browsers/ftp-clients?
<raphink> but I won't stop developping and using open source programs
<raphink> yes sistpoty
<raphink> can't watch DVDs and listen to CDs anymore on Linux
<raphink> can't watch streams
<raphink> access many websites
<seth_k|lappy> That would make Linux itself pretty much illegal
<raphink> taht's what it seems
<raphink> seth_k|lappy: exactly
<raphink> the weird thing though
<sistpoty> that would make windows as illegal as linux as well
<raphink> is that our army is about to use linux
<raphink> that big parts of the government use it
<raphink> sistpoty: no, becaues they'd use DRM
<raphink> so that only wma would be allowed for music
<sistpoty> for outlook? wow
<raphink> only wmv for video
<raphink> etc.
<raphink> let's wait a see, but it seems it's gonna be terrible
<sistpoty> yes... my best wishes to come to make the right decision goes to the french government
<raphink> oh well
<raphink> sometimes you wonder if this is even a democracy
<xhaker> lol
<raphink> Virgin came to the assembly to introduce their new download services to ministers
<raphink> in the middle of the "democratic debate"
<raphink> they were invited by the ministers and the president of the congress himself
<raphink> :(
<sistpoty> :(
<lucas> it wasn't "in the middle of".
<raphink> well quite
<lucas> raphink: do you know of a good summary of DADVSI ?
<lucas> in english ?
<seth_k|lappy> raphink, who backs this motion? software companies?
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> in english ... not sure
<raphink> seth_k|lappy: yes
<raphink> Universal, Microsoft, Virgin, etc.
<raphink> it seems from what I heard that after the previous attemps were rejected
<raphink> experts decided that the law had to pass as an urgency
<raphink> without a real debate
<Kyral> well, now I wait for my new key to spread through the Keyservers
<raphink> that would prevent it from being voted
<raphink> Kyral: :)
<raphink> Kyral: I hope I can do that in a few weeks :)
<Kyral> then I reupload EasyChem with kyral@ubuntu.com
<raphink> lucas I don't think there is an english summary anywhere
<raphink> Kyral: hehe
<sistpoty> btw.: does anyone know why fpc (freepascal) isn't in dapper? did we drop it just because it would have needed bootstrapping?
<Kyral> Now I think I have to change all my mailing lists lol
<sistpoty> Kyral: you mean your email-address?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I meant change it to the email address
<sistpoty> Kyral: you can do the change for all hosted on lists.ubuntu.com basically with two clicks (there is an option to change all)
* sistpoty did this once
<xhaker> sistpoty, do you want/need freepascal?
<sistpoty> I want it :) and I want to package lazarus, at least if it's as good as the screenshots
<Kyral> Now do I have to get kyral@ubuntu.com into REVU before I upload again?
<sistpoty> Kyral: is it the same key?
<Kyral> sistpoty: yah
<Kyral> I just tagged a new email onto it
<sistpoty> Kyral: then you can continue uploading...
<Kyral> slomo_ is gonna kill me
<sistpoty> Kyral: if you want, I can change your email (otherwise your old will be displayed)
<Kyral> he's gonna have to advocate again
<Kyral> sistpoty: I need to change it in the changelog
<sistpoty> Kyral: why so?
<Kyral> sistpoty: because I'd rather use @ubuntu.com instead of my school email for packaging business
<Kyral> I know it redirects there, but its the appearance :D
<sistpoty> Kyral: hm... then you'll have to change it ;)
<Kyral> and uploaded
<Kyral> now can I please get two votes on this thing already? ;P
<desrt> this france thing is absolutely comical
<desrt> it's worse than the european patent thing... and that was pretty comical
<Kyral> lol slomo_ has to vote on EasyChem AGAIN
* sistpoty needs to reboot... brb
<Kyral> I really wish this thing would just be fully advocated
<xhaker> desrt, the european patent thing is somewhat what happens in the US
<JohnnyMast> any italian around ?
<sivang> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUWannabeTips is very good. should be linked top level somwhere
* lucas going to be
<lucas> d
<lucas> gnight
<lifeless> Kyral: pong
<lifeless> ogra: pong
<Kyral> lifeless: too late
<lifeless> what as it ?
<ogra> lifeless, to late and obsolete as well :)
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Kamion says you should have uploaded using dpkg-buildpackage -v<LAST_UBUNTU_VERSION> for the merge upload you did for me, and to kick you.
* seth_k|lappy waits for StevenK to start kicking Mithrandir
<lifeless> Kyral, ogra what was it about ?
<ogra> lifeless, azeem applied for membership and i always try to catch the people who worke with an applicant to give a insight how helpful he/she is
<lifeless> ok
<ogra> but since he had no time to attend anyway, he is postponed to the next CC meeting
<ogra> i just thought you could say some nice words about him ;)
<lifeless> when is that, I can make sure I'm around
* StevenK kicks Mithrandir, just once.
<ogra> in two weeks (if there is one)
<lifeless> ogra: time ?
<lifeless> ogra: or it is always the same time (and what is that)
<ogra> no idea yet, but usually its around 20:00 UTC
<StevenK> The last CC meeting I attended was 14:00 UTC, which made it 01:00 AEST.
<ogra> we wanted to rotate slightly, but that didnt happen for quite some time
<sistpoty> bah... 88->105 unassigned merges
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-18
<geser> try -s _"\$(datadir)/alsa/firmware"/_"\$(datadir)"_g
<tsmithe> what's with the underscores?
<geser> or any other delimiter you want
<geser> it's an other delimiter
<geser> you can choose the delimiter
<tsmithe> it's ok
<tsmithe> i just did
<tsmithe> argh! what is wrong with this: sed s/"\$(datadir)\/alsa\/firmware"/"\$(datadir)"/g Makefile.*
<Adri2000> sed 's/$(datadir)\/alsa\/firmware/$(datadir)/' Makefile.*
<tsmithe> bah stupid failure of a script
<Adri2000> tsmithe: what I just said doesn't work?
<tsmithe> nah-
<tsmithe> i was catting the wrong file!
<tsmithe> to check
<tsmithe> stupid me
<Adri2000> tsmithe: you want to replace all the $(datadir)/alsa/firmware with $(datadir) right?
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> it's fine
<tsmithe> i did for in Makefile.*; do the sed magic $i > $i; done
<tsmithe> damn
<tsmithe> it just deleted the files
<tsmithe> not what i wanted!
<_Enchained> hi
<_Enchained> someone to review a package ?
<_Enchained> (it should be ok)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty
<_Enchained> Question...
<_Enchained> I have a package foo.0.5 already made.
<_Enchained> Now upstream released foo.0.8
<_Enchained> I must simply copy the debian folder and add a hangelo entry ?
<_Enchained> changelog*
<crimsun_> using uupdate(1) simplifies that.
<_Enchained> I look at it...
<fernando> hey alll
<fernando> s/lll/ll/
<Ppjet> hi,
<Ppjet>  i want to ./configure the package epdfview, but it tells me that it don't find gthread-2.0, so i search it with apt-cache search -n ghtread but i don't find too
<Ppjet> ** gthread
<Adri2000> ping any member of the ubuntu-dev team
<jmantha> Adri2000: what?
<Adri2000> jmantha: at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/k3d/+bug/64848 can you change the status of the "nomination for edgy" ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "[SRU: EDGY]   packaging typo - k3d does not install" [High,Confirmed]  
<jdong> does every ipod purchase have to come with a day's worth of recompiling stuff, enabling h264/aac or mp4 container support?
<jdong> :)
<jmantha> Adri2000: well, I have no idea, the new LP doesn't make much sense here
<Adri2000> jmantha: you just see " Nominated  for Edgy  by Adrien Cunin  " and have no way to change it?
<jmantha> not that I can find
<Adri2000> jmantha: look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.19/+bug/74004, it's different
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74004 in udev "Doesn't include qla2xxx firmware" [High,Confirmed]  
<jmantha> yep I've got one of those too
<jmantha> you might ask #launchpad
<Adri2000> already asked
<Adri2000> <jamesh> Adri2000: okay.  My understanding is that one of the Ubuntu developers can then approve the nomination if they think it is worth backporting the fix
<jmantha> when was that?
<Adri2000> 0029UTC
<jmantha> well, I can't see anything
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> geser: thanks for the merges uploaded :)
<geser> np
<hub> I'm gonna update gtkam in feisty
<hub> I just released a new version
<joejaxx> "Unknown interrupt or fault at at EIP 00000060 c0100295 00000294"
<joejaxx> what a nice error to receive after installing ubuntu server  :)
<joejaxx> time to chroot
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<joejaxx> anyone have any idea why that is happening :P
<ajmitch> because you broke it
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> oh, bddebian is here
<ajmitch> joejaxx: bddebian must have broken it :)
<joejaxx> :)
<bddebian> Yep, I broke it
<joejaxx> well it is quite alright
<joejaxx> i am chroot'd into the hard drive now
<crimsun_> joejaxx: copy it down and paste into ksymoops
<crimsun_> then take all that and file a bug :)
<ajmitch> crimsun_!
<joejaxx> LOL
* joejaxx goes to file haha!
<crimsun_> 'lo ajmitch 
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<crimsun_> it's definitely going, and yourself?
<ajmitch> things are going here too
<ajmitch> I understand you're going away for a short time?
<crimsun_> aye
<crimsun_> the mythical 12hr 1min-vacation from Ubuntu
<hub> crap I uploaded to revu instead of ubuntu :-/
<ajmitch> ah
<hub> actually the other way would be worse
<ajmitch> crimsun_: off to HK?
<bddebian> 12hrs without crimsun_??  What will we do?
<crimsun_> ajmitch: ja
<ajmitch> how long will you be there?
<crimsun_> ajmitch: ~2 days
* joejaxx will be sad
* joejaxx gets crimsun_ a satellite phone :D
<crimsun_> bddebian: you'll have tea and crumpets?
<bddebian> heh
<joejaxx> lol
<ajmitch> crimsun_: that's a fair distance to go for 2 days
<crimsun_> ajmitch: it's to catch up with my folks, who are there now
<ajmitch> ah right
<crimsun_> I'm lagging; I'll spend some days with my sister in California, then we'll fly over to HK
<ajmitch> how long would the flight be?
<crimsun_> ~18 hours
* ajmitch knows it's about 10-12 hours from NZ to singapore
<ajmitch> painful
<crimsun_> yeah, and there's just one meal :)
<ajmitch> heh
<crimsun_> I got an exit row, though, so at least my legs won't be cramped
<minghua> from California to HK for 18 hours?
<minghua> that's longer than I thought
<joejaxx> well austrilia to california is a while
<joejaxx> australia*
* ajmitch was lucky to have seats by himself on the flight to SF
<crimsun_> ooh, soyuz took a restroom break?
* ajmitch is going to be away from ubuntu for most of 2 weeks
<crimsun_> ajmitch: nice, where to?
<ajmitch> yeah, seems like soyuz decided to crash-land
<ajmitch> just visiting parents, and then up in christchurch
<ajmitch> no overseas travel this time
<crimsun_> ah, excellent, have a good time
<ajmitch> parents only have dialup, and I'll be 10 days without a computer in christchurch :)
<crimsun_> I have a 4-hr layover in Las Vegas, so I'll be able to hit up the first day of the REVU sprint at least
<bddebian> I don't suppose I could convince either of you to look at libparagui for me?
<ajmitch> so it should be good
<crimsun_> yes, vacation++
<ajmitch> bddebian: why, what's the problem with it now?
<bddebian> ajmitch: I need another ack don't ?
<bddebian> Err don't I? :)
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> a number of motus don't bother with revu & just upload anyway
<crimsun_> ouch
<ajmitch> it happens
<ajmitch> though we don't have many doing new packages
<ajmitch> I've been guilty of it myself, though I'd often get a quick check from someone
<bddebian> Hmm, merges, reviews, or gnumach tonight...
<ajmitch> all of the above
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> ajmitch: So are you telling me that I should just upload it? ;-P
<ajmitch> I didn't say that
<bddebian> hehe
* ajmitch isn't really saying anything at all
<ajmitch> so ignore me again :)
<bddebian> Bah, I can't do that, you're my hero :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I suggest you get some help then
<_Enchained> someone for taking a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3811 ? please
<bddebian> _Enchained: Give me a few minutes
<_Enchained> thanks bddebian
<bddebian> _Enchained: I thought you said new upstream release was 0.0.8?
<_Enchained> bddebian: where ?
<bddebian> Earlier. Or was that just an example? :-)
<_Enchained> it was an example
<bddebian> <_Enchained> I have a package foo.0.5 already made.
<bddebian> <_Enchained> Now upstream released foo.0.8
<bddebian> Ah, OK
<_Enchained> in fact it's 0.0.5 -> 0.0.9
<_Enchained> for this package
<bddebian> So I noticed :)
<_Enchained> The package looks fine ? bddebian
<bddebian> So far.  I'm test building now
<_Enchained> ok
<_Enchained> lintian doesn't return errors but I don't know all the points to check...
<bddebian> Couple of minor things
<bddebian> I would remove all the example comments out of debian/rules
<bddebian> Also since it never made it into Ubuntu, I would remove the 0.0.5 changelog entry, but that's just me, I don't know if that is "policy"
<_Enchained> ok
<_Enchained> How can I know for the changelog ?
<_Enchained> asking somebody special ?
<mr_pouit> I was already asked to do so ;)
<bddebian> _Enchained: crimsun_ knows all :-)
<_Enchained> ok ^^
<_Enchained> (bddebian: I updated with the two changes)
<bddebian> Great
<_Enchained> but advocate system is strange, when updating, it restart..
<bddebian> _Enchained: That is the case, but I have already re-advocated :-)
<_Enchained> Yes I saw. thanks :)
<bddebian> Why does packages.ubuntu.com show libmtp 0.1.0 but clicking on it gives details of libmtp 0.0.18?
<ajmitch> because it's broken
<ajmitch>    libmtp2 | 0.0.18-0ubuntu2 | http://apt-proxy feisty/main Packages
<ajmitch>     libmtp | 0.1.0-0ubuntu1 | http://apt-proxy feisty/main Sources
<bddebian> The package or packages.u.c?
<ajmitch> the package
<bddebian> Hmm
<ajmitch> broken, or it's due to soyuz fun
<imbrandon> What do you get if you multiply six by nine?
<ajmitch> 42, of course
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> did you know if you type "answer to life the universe and everything?" ( lower case only ) google caclulator will spit out 42
<imbrandon> thats some funny stuff
<ajmitch> haha
* somerville32 knew.
<somerville32> imbrandon: I haven't logged into your box for a few days but I do plan to use the account.
<somerville32> Just letting you know because I'd hate to have it deleted, ;] 
<imbrandon> somerville32: np, i dont really track useage or anything :)
<somerville32> Ah, k
<somerville32> :] 
<imbrandon> i email when i clean up accounts or if i plan to have the box down a longish time
<imbrandon> for upgrades and such
<imbrandon> ( or try to )
<ajmitch> and I still don't have an account :)
<zul> thats probably a good thing
<ajmitch> yeah
<zul> i need a faster computer
<ajmitch> go buy one
<ajmitch> katie won't mind
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> yeah she would mind...its like hobsee with a pointy stick of doom which is much more painful
<imbrandon> lol
<zul> and real..
<zul> 5 words....balls...vice..grip...ripped off
<ajmitch> hah
<somerville32> I just noticed that a package with the name "sun-java5 1.5.0-10-1" was accepted to Feisty.
<somerville32> Why doesn't it have "ubuntu"?
<imbrandon> probably because there isnt local ubuntu changes
<imbrandon> only about 1000 out of 20k + packages have *ubuntu* in the name
<somerville32> Oh, I thought all packages got ubuntu appended to prevent confusion between Ubuntu and Debian packages.
<bddebian> Nope, just those that have Ubuntu specific changes
<somerville32> kk
<imbrandon> no 19000 packages are streight from debian , the resonaing for the ubuntu in the name of some packages is there are local changes
<nixternal> woohoo!!! got me a job
<imbrandon> take foo_1.3-4ubuntu3 version , it means package "foo" upstream version 1.3 , debian revision 4 ( thus the -4 ) and ubuntu revision ( ontop of debians ) 3 ( the ubuntu3 )
<imbrandon> thus a package thats NOT in debian has -0ubutnuX ( the 0 means no debian revision )
<imbrandon> and so on
<somerville32> kk :] 
<imbrandon> so 1.5.0-10 is the upstream in this case and -1 at the end is the debian first upload and since there is no ubuntu changes to the package there is no ubuntuX on it
<imbrandon> upstream should be killed for using -10 in the version number though, but hey what can you do :)
<imbrandon> nixternal: where?
<ajmitch> nixternal: congrats
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<PuMpErNiCkEl> nixternal: props
<nixternal> Chicago Cubs
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> consultancy spot for the "Business Aspects & Marketing" teams
<ajmitch> scary
<nixternal> hehe, tell me about it
<nixternal> it will be over 2 projects, 1 pr related (which i absolutely hate) and 1 fundamentals of management organisation (which is really fun)
* ajmitch wanders off home
<nixternal> why the cubs are structuring management i don't know, they need to structure the team first ;p
<bddebian> heh
<nixternal> the money is great, and the tickets better be free
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> bddebian: how is everything?
<bddebian> Just dandy, thanks. You?
<joejaxx> i am well at the current moment
<jmantha> hi joejaxx and bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya jmantha
<joejaxx> hello jmantha 
<ajmitch> hi joejaxx and bddebian and jmantha 
<joejaxx> hello ajmitch 
<jmantha> ajmitch!
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<joejaxx> jmantha: oh btw i developed version .1 of the lcbuildd
<joejaxx> jmantha: i use it to build the fluxbuntu feisty images
<jmantha> what does lcbuildd do?
<joejaxx> right now all it does is build livecds
<joejaxx> but i am going to have it build debian install cds also
<jmantha> how does it work?
<joejaxx> jmantha: well basically there are configuration files
<joejaxx> and you call it with
<joejaxx> lcbuildd -b release
<joejaxx> release being based off dapper/edgy/feisty etc
<imbrandon> joejaxx: got it packaged? i would love to use it a bit
<joejaxx> and it builds based off of the data in the configuration files
<joejaxx> imbrandon: nope lol
<imbrandon> heh
<joejaxx> i do not have it packaged
<joejaxx> lol
<imbrandon> how about a tar ?
<imbrandon> lol
<joejaxx> lol
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian 
<joejaxx> Goodnight bddebian :)
<imbrandon> and joejaxx imho i would drop the last d on lcbuildd as it dosent actualy compile anything
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> just my 0.2c
<joejaxx> well this is just v .1
<joejaxx> :)
<jmantha> anybody running opensuse?
<Hobbsee> jmantha: likely not.  try #suse
* Hobbsee does have opensuse 10.1 running in a vm
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: that is LaserJock
<Burgundavia> hey jmantha
<Hobbsee> oh yeah.  oops
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yes
<imbrandon> err Hobbsee yea
<ajmitch> the response still stands
* Hobbsee thumps jmantha and tells him to go back to being LaserJock
<ajmitch> jmantha: go to #suse, you heathen
<Burgundavia> all these people switching to name-based nicks
<ajmitch> I would switch
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: yes, they suck
<ajmitch> but it would confuse too many people
* imbrandon never switched 
<shobbs> see, it doesnt work...
<ajmitch> shobbs!
<Burgundavia> much easier when Kamion was Kamion and Laserjock and Laserjock and tseng was tseng
* Sarah wonders who this nick belongs to
<Sarah> yes
<LaserJock> fine
<Sarah> good LaserJock 
<ajmitch> being known as Sarah may attract unwelcome attention in some large channels
<Burgundavia> none of this letting new people have an easy time in our little club
<LaserJock> anyway, I just was testing it opensuse out but I can't figure out how to get an ssh server working
<Sarah> ajmitch: having my full name in there already attracts unwelcome attention.  in fact, just being female does
<ajmitch> besides, who knows you as sarah around here?
<ajmitch> you're always hobbsee
<Sarah> ajmitch: the people who are strange and refer to me as sarah
<ajmitch> odd people
<Sarah> heh
<Sarah> yes
<imbrandon> LaserJock: install openssh ?
<LaserJock> I think I did :/
<Burgundavia> right, you need to start it
<imbrandon> did you start the sshd ? /etc/init.d/ssh
<Burgundavia> with debian, upon install the daemon is started, by policy
<imbrandon> suse it isnt
<LaserJock> oh, that's sort of lame
<imbrandon> err anything else it isnt
<Burgundavia> with most RH-based distros, you need to explicitly start it
<LaserJock> at least for ssh
<Burgundavia> and how I know that, don't ask
<LaserJock> well, I know why
<imbrandon> well debian based distros have this thing about only install what you need and run whats installed, RH based ( rpm ) distros just install everything and only run whats needed when told to , thus in RPM ssh client and ssh server arent split up
<imbrandon> e.g. makes it really tough to get a rpm distro in a small space
<nixternal> imbrandon: how come you can't leave comments on seeles blog?
<imbrandon> nixternal: not all her posts ( only lately ) has she been turning on comments
<nixternal> ahhh
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: anything interesting in kaffein 0.8.3?
<imbrandon> not that i have noticed
<imbrandon> lot more stable
<imbrandon> seems
<Burgundavia> ok
<imbrandon> libmtp hit 1.0
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: ^\
<Burgundavia> it will be covered, no fears
<imbrandon> okies :)
<Burgundavia> or that a comment on the kaffeine thingy?
<imbrandon> no libmtp is a amarok thingie
<imbrandon> ( for MS device support )
<Burgundavia> right
<imbrandon> but it went from 0.18 to 1.0 reciently ( in feisty )
<imbrandon> so its a huge improvement 
<Sarah> imbrandon: need kaffeine packaged?
<Sarah> oh it's done
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> heh gave up on Sarah ?
<imbrandon> that was fast
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: realised i had no ops on it
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> yo yo
<imbrandon> whats that irssi script that puts the names on the right 
<nixternal> nicklist.pl
<imbrandon> for the chan your in ?
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> is there one to make chan name "tabs" 
<nixternal> it is cool, but if you copy & paste alot (like the open week even i did with you) you gotta watch that you don't grab names and it gets in the paste
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i dont copy from irc much
<nixternal> dunno about chan name tabs at all
<nixternal> tabs like hwo?  where it shows the name instead of the #?
<imbrandon> like where it shows the name instead of s/Act: 1,2,3/Act: 1#chan1,2#chan2/ etc etc etc
<nixternal> chanlist.pl
<imbrandon> hum i tired that one but its only a single row, i guess i could hack it
<nixternal> then you have to create a custom bar thing (forgot what that is called at the bottom)
<nixternal> nah it is as easy as /statusbar blah blah blah   do /help statusbar
<nixternal> it took me a couple of times
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i loaded it
<imbrandon> but no list
<imbrandon> ahh there we go
<nixternal> ya, it has to do the screen w/in a screen thing
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> i already run in screen so no biggie
<nixternal> you want another god send for irssi?
<imbrandon> sure
<nixternal> http://f0rked.com/articles/irssi#Customizing_Irssis_Display
<nixternal> Highlight Window
<nixternal> so when you are away, or in another channel..it spits out the highlights in a split screen
<nixternal> so i can see if i can continue on with my conversation in this channel, or if it is important enough for me to bother breaking my concentration
<imbrandon> right
<nixternal> my only problem is i run irssi on my server, so hilights don't beep for me
<imbrandon> woot 
<imbrandon> i think i finaly got it the way i like it now
<imbrandon> leaste for now
<nixternal> ya i tweaked my own theme to my liking..talk about fun (NOT)
<imbrandon> ...
<nixternal> ...
<Admiral_Chicago> ...
<PuMpErNiCkEl> ...
<imbrandon> /save/win 11
<imbrandon> err
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you could stop using a sucky client?
* Hobbsee ducks
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i'm just now getting used to it and getting it configed the way i like
<fabo> ryanakca: pong
<Burgundavia> ok, debian has a whacked release strategy
<Burgundavia> everything is a RC-critical bug, even for really stupid packages
<azeem> Burgundavia: Debian just drops those stupid packages if the RC bugs don't get fixed soonish
<Burgundavia> azeem: right, however, they still occupy mindspace and all the attendant headaches that causes
<Adri2000> an ubuntu-core-dev is needed to accept the nomination for edgy bug 64848, thanks :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64848 in k3d "[SRU: EDGY]   packaging typo - k3d does not install" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64848
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: wrong, it's only -dev
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: they've approved it, too.  i'm about to upload it
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: I mean, in malone
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: will do, after i upload it
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: going to test it out, when it hits the archives?
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: currently I see " Nominated  for Edgy  by Adrien Cunin  " but I can't change that, can you?
* Hobbsee doubts it
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: look at bug 67361 for example
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67361 in gaim "Gaim crashes after startup (strcmp) [NO MORE CRASH FILES NEEDED] " [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67361
<Adri2000> see it's different, and it seems that only the core-devs can change that
<Hobbsee> !sru
<Fujitsu> Adri2000, isn't the new release management stuff terrific?
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: gaim's in main.
<Hobbsee> of course only core-devs can change it
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, *bzzt*
<Hobbsee> !info gaim feisty
<Hobbsee> gah
<Adri2000> I know I know :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, nobody I've seen has permissions to approve release targetting.
<Adri2000> only core-devs, and even for universe packages
<Hobbsee> well no, i just meant that it was different
<Hobbsee> weird
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, this is what happens when LP introduces new features.
<Hobbsee> hehe, yes
<tsmithe> in a package's postinst; i can't grasp when abort-upgrade is called. is that when someone has aborted the installation of a new package?
<Fujitsu> Like the whole non-Ubuntu distribution task thing complete regression.
<tsmithe> to a new package; that should have been
<Fujitsu> I find it impressive that the silly release management stuff did that...
<Adri2000> Hobbsee, Fujitsu: on LP you see "nominate" or "target" "for release"?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Adri2000> nominate or target? :)
<Fujitsu> Adri2000, I get the same end result as you.
<Fujitsu> I've done it for a number of bugs now.
<Hobbsee> nominate
<Fujitsu> Yes, that one, I think.
<Fujitsu> Yep, that's it.
<Adri2000> ok, and gpocentek, core-dev, you see what?
* Hobbsee notes he probably isnt here
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: uploaded
<gpocentek> Hobbsee: he's here :)
<gpocentek> Hobbsee: I have a "target to distro" link, not nominate
* Fujitsu kicks LP further into a hole.
<Hobbsee> gpocentek: ahh
<Fujitsu> More dependence on core-dev. Great.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> it's just a bug
<Adri2000> I hope
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, one of many!
<Hobbsee> well, yeah
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: GET FIXING THEN!  :p
<Sp4rKy> hi there
* Fujitsu is not enthused by this pathetic attempt at a LP enhancement.
<Adri2000> gpocentek: so, can you target the k3d bug to edgy please, as it's already fixed in feisty and is being fixed by Hobbsee in edgy
<gpocentek> Adri2000: I guess I can do that
<Fujitsu> Managed to completely break non-Ubuntu distro tasks, made a couple of tasks vanish...
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Deary me
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Bitter much?
<Adri2000> gpocentek: can you actually do it please? :p
<Fujitsu> StevenK, 'course not. Not at all.
<gpocentek> Adri2000: I can only target to breezy, dapper and feisty, not edgy...
<StevenK> Oh wait, Fujitsu isn't bitter, just laden down with teen angst.
* StevenK ducks.
<gpocentek> one more bug I guess
<Fujitsu> gpocentek: Is there an accept button next to the proposal, or something?
<Adri2000> yeah, there should be something like that
<gpocentek> ah right
<Fujitsu> Though, it is LP.
<Fujitsu> gpocentek, is there?
<gpocentek> there is an accept/deny link
<gpocentek> approve/decline
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice if the permissions system actually worked over that.
<gpocentek> Adri2000: done
<Adri2000> thanks :)
* Fujitsu deems motu-sru obsolete.
<tsmithe> what is sru?
<Adri2000> stable release update
<tsmithe> aha
<tsmithe> more bureaucracy then
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what for?  they do actually ack things
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: hopefully avoiding breakage
<tsmithe> of course
<tsmithe> Hobbsee, i never said it was bad :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<tsmithe> :P
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, according to BjornT it's `not impossible' that the permissions for targetting bugs will be changed in the future.
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Fujitsu> Thus, we are going to need core-dev approval for all SRUs into the distant future.
<Adri2000> :-|
<Hobbsee> bah.   who says you need LP for that in particular?
* Fujitsu does the `yay, even more not-a-bug regressions' dance.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, screwing around with the main task's status is counter-productive.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: true.  hence people are ignoring it
<Fujitsu> Ignoring it?
<Fujitsu> What's this `it'?
<sivang> morning
<Hobbsee> the targetting release
<Fujitsu> It was being used before this regression.
<Hobbsee> true that
<Hobbsee> and for backports
<Fujitsu> I wasn't particularly pleased when I attempted to initiate SRUs for a couple of packages and found that I couldn't.
<tsmithe> urgh!!! i am so dumb!
<tsmithe> finally! it works
<tsmithe> hmmm... why would dpatching in dpkg-buildpackage work and not debuild
<Sp4rKy> please, i want to install a .py software
<Sp4rKy> but the install cript is bash like
<Sp4rKy> can i use DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD := install.sh ?
<Sp4rKy> or a way to disable the exec of install script ?
<tsmithe> Sp4rKy, are you using CDBS?
<tsmithe> guess not...
<Sp4rKy> i am
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> i think it would be DEB_PYTHON_SETUP_CMD
<Sp4rKy> ok
<Sp4rKy> i'll try
<Sp4rKy> thx
<tsmithe> or you can just use dh_pysupport with a .install file
<Sp4rKy> oh, yep
<Sp4rKy> can be a good idea
<Sp4rKy> so just need to add "dh_pysupprt package.install" 
<Sp4rKy> to the install/package:: section ?
<tsmithe> have a look at my very simple rules file here
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37727/
<tsmithe> and the asoundconf-gtk.install file that goes with it
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37728/
<tsmithe> it's a simple package, but it's a simple method nonetheless
<Sp4rKy> ok
<Sp4rKy> it should be good for my package
<tsmithe> or you can use your script
<Sp4rKy> thx
<tsmithe> it's up to you
<tsmithe> :)
<Sp4rKy> :)
<macogw> hey guys, i'm building OOo 2.1 from source then going to attempt to package it up, but it wants javac, which isn't in the Ubuntu repos, so should I try packaging that up first?
<macogw> or find a deb of it to point you guys at
* Hobbsee runs
<Hobbsee> macogw: how good's your machine?
* Fujitsu concurs.
<macogw> what?
<Fujitsu> macogw, note that OOo will take a good 12 hours to compile, even on a fast machine.
<macogw> yeesh
<macogw> maybe this isnt a good idea...
<Fujitsu> Definitely not.
<Fujitsu> I'm sure d*oko  will handle it.
* Hobbsee thinks of compiling oo.o on gentoo
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, on a day where the buildds arnet needed.
* Fujitsu runs away from scary Hobbsee.
<macogw> oh hobbsee, that's a good point....
<macogw> i was gonna try gentoo
<macogw> hm
<tsmithe> urgh.... i had gentoo...
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: how about finding out if upstream k3d needs larting?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I don't do KDE, especially when they put Makefiles in their tarballs.
<realist> Depends on the machine, I've access to a xeon quad core @ 3.0GHz
<tsmithe> now that's just crazy
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: even larting htem cos they suck?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, correct.
<Hobbsee> awww
<Fujitsu> I learnt better than to criticise KDE when you/imbrandon are around.
<Fujitsu> Hm
* Fujitsu is a little scared by ompaul's last email to -ops...
<macogw> is there a list anywhere of stuff that needs to be packaged?
<tsmithe> anything that's not in ubuntu
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> or on revu
<Hobbsee> there is, yes
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *grin*
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: find macogw the list, bitte :)
<tsmithe> that's unfair delegation!
<gpocentek> macogw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: i'm dealing with k3d.
<tsmithe> i see
<Fujitsu> tsmithe, never say that around Hobbsee :P
<Fujitsu> She's god.
<Fujitsu> You'll learn, you'll learn.
<tsmithe> goddess surely
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yes, goddess
<tsmithe> :)
* tsmithe is learning
<tsmithe> why are the packages on revu in a random order?!
<Fujitsu> tsmithe, to get to the other side.
<tsmithe> ?
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: by number of approvals, i think
<tsmithe> i don't think so
* Fujitsu points tsmithe to launchpad.net/products/revu, and tells him to check out the source and look himsel.
* Fujitsu ducks.
<Fujitsu> *himself
<tsmithe> bah
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> i can't
<tsmithe> No revision control details recorded for trunk
<tsmithe> ""
<gpocentek> https://code.launchpad.net/people/revu-hackers/+branch/revu/trunk
<tsmithe> aha
* tsmithe "bzr co"s it
<tsmithe> aha
<tsmithe> it's ordered by "needswork"
<tsmithe> i think it should be ordered by dateofupload
<tsmithe> ..
<tsmithe> siretart, you're not away...
<tsmithe> can you answer that?
<tsmithe> ok... perhaps he is
<macogw> ummm i'm confused by the debian how-to-package site.  it's talking about if there's a makefil.in and stuff, but nothing named makefile ever showed up.  i *think* it's because the program is python not c so its "python install.py install" not "make" "make install" but i'm not sure.
<palski> If the package is in main, Motu cannot upload it?
<Fujitsu> palski, correct.
<Hobbsee> palski: subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<palski> ok, thanks
<Hobbsee> instead of universe
<siretart> tsmithe: I'm sort of here, yes
<tsmithe> aha
<tsmithe> well... why isn't it ordered by dateofupload?
<siretart> what? revu?
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> the index.py source shows the sql query to be ordered by needswork
<Fujitsu> Which somewhat makes sense.
<tsmithe> it would be more intuitive (and less visibly random) to order by dateofupload
<Fujitsu> needswork then dateofupload probably makes more.
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> but is needswork just boolean?
<tsmithe> if so, then it could also be ordered, within the 1 and 0 of needswork by dateofupload, couldn't it
<daya> raphink, hi
<raphink> hi daya
<daya> raphink, o.k 
<daya> raphink, then in what way we contribute here?
<tsmithe> packaging
<christopherl> how do you disable a device in Device Manager?
<tsmithe> christopherl, Device manager?
<sistpoty|uni> hi folks
<\sh> moins
<sistpoty|uni> hi \sh 
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|uni> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|uni
<tsmithe> hi bddebian
<pochu> hello everyone!
<pochu> is any motu here?
<sistpoty|uni> hi pochu 
<sistpoty|uni> yep
<pochu> hi
<pochu> I'm wondering if it would be possible that someone make a .deb of sunbird and include it on the repos
<pochu> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/75494
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75494 in Ubuntu "Include mozilla sunbird on Feisty repositories" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<pochu> lol
<pochu> nice boot
<pochu> :D
<Adri2000> crimsun_: you forgot to subscribe ubuntu-archive for the sync of blogtk :p I have done it now
<pochu> what do you say about that?
<phanatic> pochu: is sunbird not packaged for debian?
<pochu> it is, but an old version of it
<pochu> 0.3 alpha1
<pochu> and in mozilla.org, the stable version is 0.3, and the development is 0.5alpha1
<Adri2000> I don't see any package named "sunbird"
<Adri2000> but there is an ITP: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=266824
<sistpoty|uni> Adri2000: it's in experimental
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 266824 in wnpp "ITP: mozilla-sunbird -- standalone calendar application based on Mozilla's" [Wishlist,Open]  
<Adri2000> ah
<pochu> yes, experimental and unstable
<sistpoty|uni> pochu: debian renamed all the mozilla packages due to trademark probs
<pochu> but wouldn't be possible to include it on ubuntu universe repository?
<sistpoty|uni> pochu: imo, we should have sunbird already synced from debian (didn't see it in the sync blacklist)... so the question is rather what the new name is
<pochu> i'm going to see what is the new name
<Adri2000> sistpoty|uni: where is the sync blacklist?
<sistpoty|uni> Adri2000: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/sync-blacklist.txt
<sistpoty|uni> pochu: not sure about this though... maybe it was not yet renamed in debian...
<pochu> what is the name of firefox?
<sistpoty|uni> pochu: iceweasel
<sistpoty|uni> pochu: no, couldn't find s.th. in debian... well, we could sync sunbird from experimental...
<sistpoty|uni> (in case it builds)
<pochu> sistpoty|uni: and what about doing a .deb with 0.3?
<sistpoty|uni> pochu: if anyone volunteers to do it, why not ;)
<pochu> because sunbird in debian experimental is 0.3alpha1
<sistpoty|uni> (though the whole mozilla stuff is not really trivial)
<Lathiat> hrm, it seems ipv6 firewalling in dapper is entirely almost useless
<pochu> and after that there have been some new releases
<Lathiat> -j ACCEPT and -j REJECT dont seem to exist
<pochu> ok sistpoty|uni
<pochu> I will look for a volunteer
<pochu> :D
<sistpoty|uni> pochu: might als be worth to contact ian jackson, since he's maintaining firefox and co already (at least iirc)
<sistpoty|uni> maybe he has some plans
<pochu> ok
<pochu> I'm going to email him
<pochu> or subscribe him to my report on LP
<sistpoty|uni> hehe
<pochu> I've already subscribed him
<pochu> sunbird is not in debian with any other name
<pochu> ice*
<nixternal> imho the kdm login screen, the new big fat black dots, we need a bigger password box or what not, because it only shows like 4 or 5 big dots, personally it looks kind of ugly
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> it seems since i have changed my windows around in irssi, i am posting to the wrong channels now :)
<bddebian> heh
<nixternal> watch this
<\sh> guys, does anyone know a util, where you can log the typed commands from bash in a logfile...but not .bash_history alike?
<zorglu_> hmm there is one 
<zorglu_> 'script' i think or close
<\sh> I thought about sudosh or something similar..
<zorglu_> yep this is the one i though about 'man script'
<zorglu_> does it fit your needs ?
<\sh> nope..it needs to be transparent...
<\sh> I think sudosh suites better, but the last release was 2005
<\sh> hmmm hmmm hmmm
<zorglu_> i think i dont understand what you want :)
<\sh> a login shell, which logs all input and output into something like syslog :)
<\sh> sudosh is doing that...and it logs even root shells invoked via su and sudo ;)
<zorglu_> cool then :)
<\sh> I need to monitor some users on our machines...because some strange things are happening here
<zorglu_> im writing a /etc/init.d kind of script, if the new init system from edgy compatible to it ?
<PriceChild> edgy yes...
<zorglu_> ok thanks
<PriceChild> feisty's changing, but should still work
<PriceChild> I may be completely wrong :)
<zorglu_> are you saying that soon ubuntu will no more be compatible with the 'usual' /etc/init.d ?
<zorglu_> ok what is the name of this new /etc/init.d system ?
<geser> zorglu_: upstart
<geser> it's event driven
<zorglu_> geser: thanks
<plugwash> where can i get more info on this new init replacement?
<plugwash> upstart sounds like the kind of word that will be hard to google
* plugwash tries
<\sh> anyone saw an errormessage like this: Dec 18 19:23:11 fai-noc kernel: [361111.808688]  sudosh[31758]  general protection rip:402fd3 rsp:7fffffa6a6d0 error:0 ?
<zorglu_> plugwash: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ <- this seems a good place to look at :)
<plugwash> from the point of view of shaving down boot time it does seem like a good move to implement something like this but i get the impression it will also mean major relearning for admins which is bad
<plugwash> there is also the problem that it will make bootup far less predictable (e.g. far more likely to break occasionally rather than behave the same every boot)
<zorglu_> my problem is much simpler :) the doc uses word like event/job and i dont know what the author mean by that :)
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: iirc, an event is s.th. like network is up... a job is s.th. like start the database server
<plugwash> sysvinit based booting is a mostly sequential process, this is good for simplicity, predictability and dependability but it makes booting relatively slow
<zorglu_> sistpoty|uni: i see, thanks
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: though I'm not really sure if I'm not mixing stuff here (just hacking on a vhdl interpreter, and it got events as well *g*)
<zorglu_> :)
<plugwash> so theese modern systems move away from the idea of a sequence of tasks to start the system and move to systems that can run certain jobs in paralell
<plugwash> for example once the network is up you can start your db, mailserver and webserver at the same time
<zorglu_> yep, because this decrease the boot time so make the user happier :)
<zorglu_> about the previous claim about upstart stopping to be compatible with sysvinit, made like 30min, i got the confirmation that it is not true :)
<plugwash> oh i'm sure it will have some backwards compatibility but ultimately creating a rcX.d symlink means "put this job at this position in a sequence" which is something that doesn't have much meaning in an event based boot system
<zorglu_> i just read http://upstart.ubuntu.com/doc/getting-started.html, which is a short introduction
<zorglu_> they already have a compatibility layer
<zorglu_> and their design seems very nice to me
<plugwash> sure they do but if your system is booting using the new system then putting one task in the compatibility layer isn't going to say much about when said task should run
<zorglu_> it means the same as it meant with a pure sysvinit
<zorglu_> aka run this script only after this other script has been run
<plugwash> from that page you linked: "Jobs will be run alongside the init scripts for that runlevel."
<zorglu_> yep, the script which have been ported to upstart will run independantly to the one which have been ported, from my understanding
<zorglu_> in my understanding, the sysvinit compatibility layer is just a bunch of script generating event in sequence and calling the usual sysvinit scripts as in /etc/init.d
<zorglu_> my shallow current understanding i meant :)
<plugwash> right so say i have a custom script called /etc/rc2.d/S99whatever
<plugwash> under the current system i can be pretty sure it will run last or nearly last
<plugwash> but on a system where all the standard stuff has been moved to upstart native scripts it may run much much earlier
<zorglu_> well sure that it will run after S98, S97 etc...
<zorglu_> not sure of what you mean by 'last' or 'earlier'
<zorglu_> on sysvinit, S99 is garanteed to start after S98, on upstart compatibility too
<plugwash> ok lets take a more concrete example, lets say i wan't to get an e-mail whenever my system is booted up so i write an init script to do it, i notice that on my system the mailserver is started by S20exim4 so i call my script S21mailme
<plugwash> this will work fine on sysvinit and also fine when both the mailserver and my script are started through the compatibility system in upstart
<plugwash> however when i then upgrade the mailserver package to a version that uses upstart natively (which i presume is the general intention since using the compatibility mode to bring up your entire system kinda defeats the point of upstart) then it will no longer be defined whether my script should run before or after exim is started
<zorglu_> well this seems like a border case to me :)
<siretart> \sh_away: I find emacs shell mode quite handy for that :)
<zorglu_> moreover it would be done compatible :) but would kill the point of upstart :)
<sistpoty|uni> hi siretart 
<LaserJock> oh, this is rich
<sistpoty|uni> hi LaserJock
<siretart> huhu sistpoty|uni, hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> somebody is writing an Automatix-like app to build programs from source
<LaserJock> and in a reply on the forums somebody asks if it will compile programs from "other" source formats like EXE
<siretart> hrhr. let me guess, he is calling this 'autopackage'?
<siretart> or 'klickstart'?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> Comprosure: Ubuntu Autocompiler
<sistpoty|uni> yay. I guess I should add exe to the uncommon programming languages page. anyone got references?
<siretart> sistpoty|uni: .exe? isn't that problem solved with wine?
<sistpoty|uni> siretart: I thought it was an programming language, if you can compile programs from it g
* sistpoty|uni admits that /me missed the right time for this joke
<siretart> ah. lol :)
<LaserJock> ok, so at what point are we supposed to archive uploaded packages on REVU?
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: at least if it's uploaded
<tsmithe> hey, LaserJock you're back!
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: I've generally wanted to wait until they were in the archives, but waiting for NEW processing tends to make me forget about it
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: I tend to review what's listed on the revu page... the packages which have two advocates already always make me wonder a little bit
<LaserJock> fine, if nobody minds I'll archive once I've uploaded
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: as written above, that's what I do ;)
<plugwash> zorglu_, i'm not saying upstart is a bad thing, i am however saying it will mean a lot of relearning for admins and (unless debian follows suit which seems unlikely) a lot of broken stuff in universe
<jikanter> Laserjock: is that like aap?
<LaserJock> what?
<jikanter> the automatix app 
<jikanter> www.a-a-p.org
<LaserJock> hmm, sounds similar
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
* ajmitch really needs caffeine
* sistpoty|uni heads home
<sistpoty|uni> later folks
<siretart> let's test bzr-builddeb with the xine 1.1.3 package...
<LaserJock> siretart: oh, that sounds shiny
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> siretart: you got it in a bzr repo somewhere?
<siretart> LaserJock: yes, currently on my laptop only
<siretart> LaserJock: or do you mean bzr-builddeb? that one is available on the bzr PluginRegistry
<LaserJock> yes, that's what I meant
<LaserJock> thanks
<siretart> hmm. works fine for me :)
* ajmitch might try it out one day
<LaserJock> my goodness, there are a lot of plugins
<LaserJock> grrr
* LaserJock kicks FSF and RMS ;-)
<LaserJock> only figuratively of course
<zul> what did the do now besides being idiots?
<Q-FUNK> rms deserves to be kicked for real. he's a real prick.
<LaserJock> well, a "distribute the source" zealot is making me have a bad day
* zorglu_ dislikes fsf a lot
<LaserJock> he wants me to go on record as saying an Ubuntu derivative I work on doesn't distribute source after I told him twice that we did
<zul> LaserJock: <rob schneider> you can do it! </rob schneider>
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> yet another, "I hate the GPL" moment
<LaserJock> ah well, I'll get over it
<crimsun_> s/GPL/idiots/g
<LaserJock> obviously it wasn't written with distros in mind
<siretart> LaserJock: perhaps he is referring to http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#UnchangedJustBinary ?
<LaserJock> partially that yeah
<siretart> mh http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCSourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites might fit better
<LaserJock> but also that you have to have the source code on the same server as the .iso and binaries
<LaserJock> so I just fired back with that one
<LaserJock> saying that a link to the source code is ok
<LaserJock> so here's the scenario
<bddebian> Ha, we're no worse than main with merges! ;-)
<LaserJock> a derivative like say Fluxbuntu or Ichthux who has all their source in Ubuntu distributes their .iso on their own site
<LaserJock> do they have to keep all the source for the packages on the .iso on the same server as their .iso
<Fujitsu> bddebian, and we have like 4 times more packages.
<LaserJock> well, we've closed the gap quite a bit
<geser> I'm currently looking at a merge to sponsor, but I'm not quite sure if it should be merged or synced
<crimsun_> geser: which?
<crimsun_> LaserJock: no.
<plugwash> [20:49]  <LaserJock> do they have to keep all the source for the packages on the .iso on the same server as their .iso <-- to comply with the letter of the gpl yes
<geser> diff between debian and merged package is on http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37810/ (w/o changelog)
<bddebian> crimsun_: See the alsa-utils on REVU yet? :)
* crimsun_ spits out his dentures
<LaserJock> plugwash: I argue no :-)
<geser> crimsun_: dict-bouvier (bug 76092)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76092 in dict-bouvier "merge: new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76092
<crimsun_> alsa-utils...on revu...?
<LaserJock> yeah, so that
<LaserJock> wondered what was up
<bddebian> geser: Personally I'd sync it but what do I know? :)
<plugwash> whatever that faq says the gpl clearly states "the same place"
<LaserJock> plugwash: and a link at that "same place" is good enough ;-)
<geser> I'm almost also in favour of sync
<plugwash> where does the gpl itself say that?
<LaserJock> it just does ;-)
<LaserJock> that's why I dislike the GPL
<LaserJock> it requires too much interpretation to be used well
<geser> especially since python2.4-dictdlib needs to be changed to python-dictdlib
<Toadstool> hiya everybody!
<Burgwork> LaserJock: the gpl is saving us from bad deals like the Novell/MS one
<Fujitsu> Is the merge freeze actually going to be a freezish thing this time?
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Fujitsu> Burgwork, yes... GPL3 is our friend in some ways.
<Toadstool> hey bddebian 
<Fujitsu> Morning Toadstool, haven't seen you around much lately :)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: maybe, but it often seems ridiculous, I personally want nothing to do with it if I can, maybe my mind will change though
<Toadstool> hey Fujitsu 
<cypher1> can anyone do the merges ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> MY e-mails get moderated?? WTF, don't they know who I am?? :-)
<Burgwork> LaserJock: the whole source/binary thing came out of the MEPIS mess
<Toadstool> I've been pretty busy at work :/
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I know
<plugwash> the gpl says that you must offer "offering equivalent access to copy the source code from the same place" nowhere does it say anything about it being ok to just put a reference to another place
<LaserJock> well, depends on what "equivalent access" is
<LaserJock> it doesn't really say it's not OK
<plugwash> yes it does
<cypher1> LaserJock, where can i find the list of packages that needs to be merged ? also is there any guide for merging ?
<LaserJock> merges.ubuntu.com
<crimsun_> geser: it's a sync. The debhelper change is actually bogus, since dh_python isn't invoked anywhere.
<LaserJock> and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School
<Toadstool> hmm, interesting... a ftbfs on all archs except for i386 due to a conflict between two header files...
<crimsun_> geser: (and yes to the python-dictdlib)
* Toadstool is puzzled
<joejaxx> joejaxx@eclipse:~$ gedit
<joejaxx> X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.
<joejaxx> :(
<geser> crimsun_: thanks, will add a comment to the bug
<plugwash> and anyway even if it was acceptable to put source and binary in different places there is also the problem that its not you who is offering the access to copy the source if you simply put up a link to the main ubuntu archive
<gnomefreak> guys i think nvidia-glx is overwriting xorg.conf no matter if its been altered
<LaserJock> plugwash: I don't particularly care, tbh
<Toadstool> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5420830/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-amd64.ifplugd_0.28-2.1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <-- any idea this worked on i386 but not on other archs?
<gnomefreak> atleast its overwriting part of it as i am only getting 800x600 after rebooting after nvidia-glx updates
<Toadstool> +why
<Fujitsu> And how exactly do you define `same place'?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> I say (and the GPL FAQ seems to say too) that a link to the source is fine
<Fujitsu> Linky?
<Fujitsu> (yes, I'm lazy)
<LaserJock> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#SourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites
<plugwash> even if you think it is fine would you rely on a judge agreeing it was fine
<LaserJock> I'll take that risk :-)
<LaserJock> it's completely rediculous
<shawarma> If we don't manage to get through the merges, what's the process for getting them in after the 21st?
<LaserJock> we have source code flying everywhere
<crimsun_> gnomefreak: file a bug; attach details
<crimsun_> shawarma: UVF exception request
<LaserJock> bddebian: if you look at http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe-trend.png you'll notice we didn't really make any headway until herd 1 was released
<gnomefreak> crimsun_: it will have to wait till it happens again unless ... let me check something
<shawarma> crimsun_: Garh..  Didn't we have much more time for this during Edgy?
<crimsun_> not that I'm aware of
<Fujitsu> shawarma: We're not quite 2 months into the dev cycle, so I think so.
<shawarma> crimsun_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule says universe merges deadline were a month before release.
<Fujitsu> Which is 3 months in.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Oh, right. I didn't think of it that way. I thought about the time left of the cycle.
<crimsun_> universe's schedule isn't frozen in stone, either.
<shawarma> crimsun_: It's up to TB, right?
<cypher1> LaserJock, thanks
<crimsun_> shawarma: MC
<Fujitsu> Er, FeistyReleaseSchedule shows UVF to be on 2006/02/08...
<LaserJock> UVF for Main
<Fujitsu> Isn't it only FeatureFreeze that is being pushed back for universe?
<LaserJock> who knows
<LaserJock> it's kinda up in the air
<LaserJock> I think we wanted to make FF at Beta Freeze
<crimsun_> bddebian: bah, those are alsa-{tools,firmware}. I've been working with tsmithe on them.
<bddebian> :)
<shawarma> It does look kind of weird. Why would UVF and DebianImportFreeze not be the same date?
<tsmithe> hi crimsun_ 
<crimsun_> bddebian: I thought you meant alsa-_utils_, which would have made me hot.
<tsmithe> i uploaded them to revu
<bddebian> Sorry
<Fujitsu> crimsun_, are you sure we'll need UVFes after DebianImportFreeze? That contradicts stuff.
<LaserJock> we need UVFes after UVF
<crimsun_> Fujitsu: only when universe has gone UVF.
<tsmithe> crimsun_, however, i am still not sure of the licence on -firmware. joejaxx has contacted the companies in question, and i'll update after he's got back to me
<cypher1> hi crimsun_ 
<shawarma> crimsun_: If that's the case, what's up with Keybuk's e-mail about the deadline for the merges?
<Fujitsu> `what's the process for getting them in after the 21st?' was what shawarma asked... crimsun_, stop scaring me :P
<crimsun_> shawarma: if he sent it today, I haven't processed it yet.
<LaserJock> well, from dholbach's email it seems he wants Universe UVF = Main UVF and Universe FF = Main FF + 1week
<cypher1> crimsun_, can i try merge on resolvconf package in universe ?
<shawarma> crimsun_: He did. It showed up here about half an hour ago.
<crimsun_> cypher1: sure
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, that's what I thought.
<crimsun_> shawarma: right, I'm backlogged on e-mail.
<cypher1> crimsun_, thanks .. i am new to this.. so i hope thats ok :)
<Fujitsu> Keybuk's email seems to say `do them in the next 48 hours or you're stuffed.'
<shawarma> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel/23094
<tenshu> Hi all, i wonder if Apache licence & Common public licence could comply with the debian policy?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: Scott's email is misleading at best, if not flat out wrong
<Fujitsu> I thought it was a /target/.
<crimsun_> shawarma: that corresponds with Debian Import Freeze, yes
<LaserJock> Debian Import Freeze is when they stop automatically importing debian packages
<shawarma> crimsun_: Yes. I can live with our not automatically syncing with debian, but having to the merges before Thursday is a bit harsh.
<crimsun_> shawarma: so we have until Feb 8th to complete actual new upstreams
<LaserJock> yeah, his email is not right
<shawarma> Maybe Hobsee could poke him with her famous stick..
<bddebian> hehe
<LaserJock> actually, his whole email is confusing
<LaserJock> ah, he has graciously "releasing the restriction that the named individual should be contacted before performing the merge"
<bddebian> :)
* ajmitch has 1 outstanding merge for main
<Burgwork> LaserJock: ie: get off yer lazy asses :)
<joejaxx> Burgwork: Lol
<bddebian> haha
<LaserJock> Burgwork: well, if I wasn't fighting with GPL zealots I could get some real work done
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Burgwork> clearly software freedom is a terrible idea
<LaserJock> I agree
<Burgwork> all go back to Windows, just like Jorge
<ajmitch> of course it is
<zorglu_> the word 'freedom' is so misleading
<LaserJock> people do all kinds of stupid things when it's free
<ajmitch> Burgwork: that was uncalled for
<Burgwork> ajmitch: I am kidding
<bddebian> Who's Jorge?
<LaserJock> whiprush
<Burgwork> bddebian: whiprush
<bddebian> Ahh, I never got that story
<Burgwork> he left
<ajmitch> no, you missed it all
<bddebian> Yeah, I saw it mentioned but didn't know why
<Burgwork> burnt out
<LaserJock> Burgwork: well, as far as I can tell Universe has a higher percentage of merges done then Main so ...
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we're just waiting on bddebian to finish them before lunch
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> bddebian FTW!
<joejaxx> :D
<crimsun_> LaserJock and bddebian FTW
<bddebian> FTW?
<LaserJock> bah
<ajmitch> crimsun_!
<crimsun_> ajmitch!
<LaserJock> bddebian: acronym finders are the bomb dude ;-)
<joejaxx> bddebian: for the win
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well my daughter has a dance thing tonight so I won't be able to get them done for a few hours :-)
<ajmitch> oh ok
<ajmitch> bddebian: we'll let you fix all the universe bugs tomorrow then
<bddebian> Heh, yeah right
<bddebian> I'm too dumb for those :-(
<bddebian> snes9x sync requested..
<bddebian> Anyway, gotta run.  Later gang
<crimsun_> Toadstool: ask in -toolchain
* LaserJock kicks the GPL again
<zorglu_> dont forget to kick the glibc maintainer for his stance against static library
* zorglu_ pushes all his hatred :)
<jpatrick> zorglu_: release your anger
* zorglu_ dislikes fsf and all their fud about 'defending freemdom'
<zorglu_> there :)
<ryanakca> note to all: solseek
<ryanakca> *dibs on solseek
<cypher1> xxdiff is cool for checking merge :D
<ryanakca> checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths! ... I need to add xlibs-dev? or xserver-xorg-dev?
<geser> ryanakca: check for which header it looks and install the package providing it
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<cypher1> LaserJock, i guess we need to sanity build the package for the release it is targeted. At present , feisty, right ?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<LaserJock> cypher1: yep
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> Hello sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi joejaxx: 
<Toadstool> crimsun_: ok, thanks
<cypher1> thanks LaserJock crimsun_ let me go to sleep while pbuilder downloads feisty.. sigh its 3:30 am
<rmjb> Hello room
<rmjb> Hello ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi
<rmjb> congrats, I saw that today (or yesterday in your case) was the anniversary of when New Zealand was discovered by the Europeans
<siretart> yay. 2 motus just got approved for debian :)
<siretart> btw, has anyone seen lucas lately?
<crimsun_> 2h 3min ago.
<siretart> oh
<ajmitch> siretart: oh, who was that?
<siretart> ajmitch: lucas and myself :)
<ajmitch> congratulations :)
<crimsun_> congrats :)
<siretart> thanks :)
* ajmitch directs everyone to siretart for debian sponsorship now
<siretart> ajmitch: naah, not yet. now it's up for elmo :)
<sistpoty> congrats siretart!
<Toadstool> siretart: congrats'!
<LaserJock> siretart: congrats dude
<ajmitch> siretart: oh, so you're approved, but waiting on the DAM?
* ajmitch will congratulate you in 6 months then :)
<siretart> ajmitch: I was just approved by DAM, now I'm just waiting for DAM: https://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=siretart%40tauware.de
<siretart> confusing, eh? ;)
<crimsun_> hmm, magnatune plugin in rhythmbox 0.9.7
<ryanakca> would this go into the KDE or Science category in control? http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=31311
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I'd say KDE
<LaserJock> as it's a Kicker applet
<ryanakca> kk, ty
<ryanakca> yeah
<ryanakca> bbl, supper
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-19
<sistpoty> crimsun_: do you want to look over sru bug #72951 again, or can I take your previous +1 and upload to -proposed?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72951 in dosemu "[SRU]  dosemu (dapper)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72951
<crimsun_> sistpoty: +1
<sistpoty> crimsun_: thx... uploading
<sistpoty> jdong: did you backport dosemu-freedos (bug #73056) to edgy and dapper or only to edgy?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73056 in dapper-backports "dosemu-freedos (dapper and most probably edgy)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73056
<jdong> sistpoty: not yet, but soon :)
<sistpoty> jdong: thanks!
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3820 ?
<Adri2000> ryanakca: you don't need all of that in the copyright file
<Adri2000> look at other packages to see what you need
<Adri2000> ryanakca: and you can remove the commented and blank lines at the end
<ryanakca> kk
<tsmithe> i wish i got revu's that quickly
<ryanakca> Adri2000: while I fix that, anything else?
<tsmithe> i have four packages which need revuing
<Adri2000> ryanakca: just looking quickly at the diff.gz, no :)
<tsmithe> but i only want two of them looked at
<tsmithe> the others are wip
<tsmithe> (crimsun_ knows why)
<ryanakca> Adri2000: uploading...
<ryanakca> done
<ryanakca> tsmithe: I'm special?
<ryanakca> lol
<tsmithe> bah
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3725
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3793
<tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk
<tsmithe> sonata
<tsmithe> the other two are alsa-tools and alsa-firmware
<LaserJock> tsmithe: you've done pretty ok for reviews
<tsmithe> really?
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun_> uh, yeah
<tsmithe> i know
<tsmithe> :)
<tsmithe> i want uploads :P
<LaserJock> used to take like a few weeks to maybe a month
<ajmitch> afternoon
<tsmithe> afternoon
<ryanakca> Adri2000: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3821 should be it in a couple of minutes
* PriceChild should finish his package soon
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty, how's it going?
<PriceChild> hey tsmithe 
<tsmithe> hiya pricey
<sistpoty> ajmitch: so for so good... I just trashed my fs of my laptop (but it was just a fresh dapper install for sru-tests *g*)
<Adri2000> ryanakca: cool, now you have to find a motu to check it :)
<tsmithe> crimsun_, when you have a minute could you look over alsa-firmware and alsa-tools, though, to make sure i'm going in the right direction.
<ajmitch> sistpoty: oh great
<crimsun_> tsmithe: I'm in a meeting right now.
<tsmithe> i'm going to sleep now, so if you post on irc, my proxy will get it
<tsmithe> ok thanks anyway :)
<tsmithe> you have a lot of meetings :)
<ryanakca> O Great Mighty Powerful LaserJock/jmantha, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3821 ? :D, please?
<ryanakca> tsmithe: he's alwais in a meeting... I don't envy him...
<tsmithe> me neither
<tsmithe> :)
<geser> ryanakca: you want probably to build-depend on kdelibs4-dev instead of kdelibs
<crimsun_> tsmithe: when it's someone else's money on the line, there are more meetings than you can shake a stick at
<tsmithe> ok
<ryanakca> geser: kk
<tsmithe> someone else's.......
<ryanakca> s/3821/3822 in a sec
<tsmithe> night all
<ryanakca> uploading...
<ryanakca> done
<ryanakca> geser:  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3822 when revu updates it's web interface
<ryanakca> geser: REVU updated, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3822 is the updated link :) (thanks, btw)
<geser> ryanakca: you can remove kdelibs from Build-depends as you now have kdelibs4-dev there
<LaserJock> the permissions on the source dir are funky or something
<LaserJock> I can't go into it on REVU
* sistpoty didn't do anything
<ajmitch> LaserJock: which dir?
<LaserJock> solseek-0.8a
<LaserJock> I get a Forbidden
<ajmitch> drwxr-x---    8 revu1    revu   4096 2006-12-18 19:00 solseek-0.8a
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> odd
<ajmitch> same permissions in the tarball, which is strange
<ryanakca> ajmitch: LaserJock: change'em?
<ajmitch> or it could be correct
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> LaserJock: logout, log back in
<ajmitch> ah no
<ajmitch> sorry, I thought you were doing it via the shell :)
<LaserJock> same
<ryanakca> hmm...
<LaserJock> nah, I'm just browsing
<ajmitch> ryanakca: did you recreate the tarball yourself?
<ryanakca> ajmitch: yes, it was a .tar.bz2
<ajmitch> right
<ryanakca> and I have some paranoid permission defaults on my system :)
<ajmitch> I suggest you redo it & make sure permissions are correct
<ajmitch> before you break everything :)
<ryanakca> remake the tarball? kk
<ajmitch> your package may not be buildable as-is, I don't know
<ryanakca> by default, everything on my system is -rw-r-----
<sistpoty> yay, my filesystem is back online :)
<ajmitch> that's a good sign
<ajmitch> no uni tomorrow? :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: sure I do..., but since I'm "only" writing my thesis, I can come in the afternoon as well *g*
<ryanakca> ajmitch: it builds fine on my system...
<ryanakca> ajmitch: how do I reset default permissions? so that permissions of new files are the default ones of ubuntu? instead of the ones set by bastille?
* ryanakca chmod 744'd the source dir...
<sistpoty> ryanakca: I guess you could do that with umask
<ryanakca> kk
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun_: iirc you packaged lsr, am i correct?
<crimsun_> no, TheMuso does. I simply check and punt his source packages.
<Admiral_Chicago> for feisty that is
<Admiral_Chicago> ah okay, well then I'll go bug him thanks
<Admiral_Chicago> TheMuso: got a second?
<crimsun_> idle for >15hr? Probably away.
<TheMuso> Admiral_Chicago: Yo mate. Whats up?
<Admiral_Chicago> lsr doesn't install on feisty at all
<TheMuso> What happens? Is it the same as in the bug report?
<Admiral_Chicago> nothing I've tried works, it went through accessibility a while ago
<tictacaddict> hi, I want to make a package and I hear this is the place to start
<Admiral_Chicago> bug #75865 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 75865 in lsr "LSR won't install on Feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75865
<Admiral_Chicago> ?
<crimsun_> tictacaddict: see the Ubuntu Packaging Guide and the Debian Policy Manual
<tictacaddict> crimsun_: thanks, will do
<Admiral_Chicago> that one TheMuso ?
<TheMuso> Admiral_Chicago: Yeah I got it
<TheMuso> If its libbonobo2, what is there that can be done?
<TheMuso> It seems out of our hands as far as I can tell
<TheMuso> The package built successfully at the time of upload
<Admiral_Chicago> hmm i'll check out libbonob2, maybe mail them for an update, probably something is broken
<TheMuso> ah I think I see the prob
<TheMuso> ive found the problem I believe
<TheMuso> the libbonobo2 package has been renamed
<TheMuso> I'll sort out a fix right now
<ryanakca> ajmitch: LaserJock: geser: Fixed
<crimsun_> Admiral_Chicago: -> libbonobo2-0
* TheMuso is working on a fix
<Admiral_Chicago> ah i see, so then it was pointing to the wrong package crimsun_?
<ryanakca> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3823
<nixternal> i read that as libnoob2-0
<TheMuso> Admiral_Chicago: But at the time, the libbonobo2 package wasn't what it is now.
<TheMuso> With the silly season upon us, I just haven't had time to look at that bug.
<crimsun_> give me a debdiff, I'll punt it.
<Admiral_Chicago> same here
<TheMuso> crimsun_: Just a sec. Want to pbuilder it first. Tis a habbit I'm in. :)
<crimsun_> right, testing is assumed. :)
<LaserJock> assumed?
<LaserJock> that's kinda dangerous around here
<LaserJock> :-)
<crimsun_> the only thing dangerous round here is nixternal and his new web hosting
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> i wonder if i can launch bombs with it?
<Admiral_Chicago> hopefully...
<ryanakca> lol
* ryanakca hopes he isn't on nixternal's hitlist
<LaserJock> I'm not afraid, they'd be duds
<crimsun_> ouch
<Admiral_Chicago> there are a few jokes in there that i'm not bold enough to make
* Admiral_Chicago hides from nixternal
<nixternal> hrmm. i did make bombs and take them apart for a living while in the military. only one was a dud :)
<LaserJock> how did you know if it was a dud?
* ryanakca hides
<nixternal> it didn't go boom?
<LaserJock> yeah, but who'd you try them out on? ;-)
<nixternal> oh, some lonely hill in Quantico Virginia
<LaserJock> hmm
<crimsun_> are you sure it wasn't in Montana?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal> that would be classified
<LaserJock> we've got lots of land in MT
<nixternal> who do you work for again?
<LaserJock> but I'd really rather you send them NV
<LaserJock> this place is a hell hole
<LaserJock> Yucca Mountain here we come
<nixternal> well, we did some explosives testing in New Mexico as well
<nixternal> I wasn't priviledged enough to see the aliens and ufo's in Notvada
<LaserJock> MT has a nice patch of silos though
<LaserJock> I see them everyday
* LaserJock mutters something about Taco Bell
<nixternal> LaserJock: how many times do I have to tell you that you should not say that about your inlaws
<nixternal> gahahahahahha
<nixternal> you are bad LaserJock 
<LaserJock> and on that note, I'm out
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> see you later people, gotta go get an oil change for the minivan before we head up to MT
<LaserJock> I won't be around for REVU Day
<nixternal> have fun, and be safe
<LaserJock> but I'll try to make it up to everybody ;-)
<crimsun_> be safe, don't want 1/3 of our trinity croaking
<LaserJock> haha
<nixternal> LaserJock: i wear a XXL, just so you knwo the size of the ubuntu tshirt that i want :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I do have one
<LaserJock> and an XXL Google shirt too
<LaserJock> but they're mine I tell you
* LaserJock strokes his Ubuntu shirt, "my precious"
<nixternal> grrr
<nixternal> my ubuntu shirt is just a white t-shirt now
<crimsun_> you should really get that checked out
* nixternal mutters profanity at cafedepress
<LaserJock> nah, I got the real deal from mds and Jane Silber dude
<LaserJock> s/mds/mdz/
* chillywilly ate too much
* LaserJock out
<nixternal> i wonder when jsgotanco is gonna call..he should be in chicago any day now
* chillywilly is allergic to Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> "skull panda loves kitties" is what my teeshirt says...
<Admiral_Chicago> chillywilly: no such thing
<chillywilly> damn FIBs ;)
<nixternal> FIBs hahaha
<nixternal> F'n Illinois Bastards?
* chillywilly notes the "wi" in his hostmask :)
<chillywilly> yes
<nixternal> i have heard FIPs, FIBs is a first
* ryanakca is allergic to anything south of lake ontario :)
<nixternal> hehe
<crimsun_> so we'll be boycotting reviewing ryanakca's packages...
<ryanakca> lol
<nixternal> ahh good one crimsun_ 
<nixternal> na na na boo boo
* ryanakca guesses he'll have to bug some europeans :)
<nixternal> not after i tell them what you said last week about them
<nixternal> remember that crimsun_? :)
* ryanakca scratches his head
<nixternal> haha
* tictacaddict likes Sam and Fuzzy
<nixternal> where did that one come from? hahaha
<ryanakca> lol
<chillywilly> bumpin' fuzzies...
<ryanakca> it's too warm down there... 
* ryanakca likes the cold... even though we have a green christmas... which is :(
<chillywilly> no snow here either
<chillywilly> it's been unusually warm for December
* ryanakca thinks there should be a #ubuntu-motu-offtopic
<ajmitch> ryanakca: then -motu wouldn't get used at all, with the S/N ratio we have here
<ryanakca> lol
<chillywilly> ajmitchie!
<elkbuntu> ryanakca, i'll swap you..a hot and smokey xmas up for grabs here :|
<ryanakca> ick... no good for skiing
<ryanakca> skiing = life
<elkbuntu> ryanakca, well.. the ash might make for some interesting 'snow'
<ryanakca> oooh? where's that?
<ryanakca> volcano? forest fire?
<elkbuntu> ryanakca, bushfires, yeah. australia is still on fire :(
<ryanakca> :(
<ryanakca> We had tons of forest fires in BC this year
<elkbuntu> my eyes are stinging mad today...
<ryanakca> do you guys have palm trees for christmas? or do you grow/import pine trees?
<ryanakca> I can imagine
<elkbuntu> pine trees are grown over here
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: getting plenty of smoke there?
* ryanakca wonders if that campfire trick works... repeating "white rabbit white rabbit white rabbit" over and over again :P
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, its pretty thick in the air atm
* ryanakca remembers a forest fire when I was in kindergarten... my house was along a wide river... the other side was in flames... chocolate clouds... hehe...
<ryanakca> what's burning? dry plants/shrubs/bushes?
<elkbuntu> ryanakca, anything that doesnt move fast enough
<ryanakca> ah
<ryanakca> elkbuntu: you busy? and a MOTU? 
<elkbuntu> ryanakca, not a motu, no
<ryanakca> kk
<chillywilly> all motus are busy ;)
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> :P
* ryanakca wonders about REVU & permissions
<ryanakca> 4.0K drwxrw-r--   7 ryan ryan 4.0K 2006-12-18 19:24 solseek-0.8a, yet http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/solseek-0612181925/solseek-0.8a
<elkbuntu> ryanakca, ajmitch spoke in the past half hour, harass him :
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> ajmitch: I'm harrassing you, ok?
* chillywilly also harrises ajmitch 
<elkbuntu> if he didnt hate me already, he does now
<ryanakca> lol
<chillywilly> ajmitch makes love not war
* ryanakca starts the "Official Ajmitch Harrasment in the Name of Reviewment of Packages"  team on LP, and sets elkbuntu as the administrater
<ajmitch> sigh
<ryanakca> s/administrater/administrator
* elkbuntu whistles innocently
<ryanakca> lol
<ajmitch> ryanakca: simple, you didn't set the +x on the directory
<ryanakca> it needs +x? heh, ty
<ajmitch> yes
<chillywilly> doh
<chillywilly> ryanakca: you're fired
<ryanakca> lol
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<chillywilly> hi bddebian 
<ajmitch> oh good, now you can harass bddebian instead
<ryanakca> ajmitch: want me to start a elkbuntu harrassement team for you?
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty, chillywilly, ajmitch, ryanakca
<ryanakca> hey bddebian, KSSH ring a bell?
<ryanakca> hehehe
<crimsun_> hey bddebian, grits and pony?
<bddebian> You aren't back at that are you?
<elkbuntu> ryanakca, real amount of good that would do you
<bddebian> Heya crimsun_
* ryanakca puts post-its of kssh everywhere in bddebians house
<ryanakca> note to all: KSSH is your worst enemy
* chillywilly puts post-its of sweet nothings all over bddebian's place
<bddebian> heh
<zul> hey
<chillywilly> ho
<bddebian> Heya zul
<chillywilly> there is only zul
<chillywilly> I should finish my mirroring script and add Edgy to it
<ryanakca> oh bddebian... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3824 :D
<ryanakca> don't worry, it isn't AS evil as the last one I had :)
<bddebian> heh
<sistpoty> can anyone sponsor me an upload for main (bug #62831)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62831 in dosfstools "fsck.vfat truncates files of 4294967295 bytes length to 0 bytes at boot-time" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62831
<sistpoty> ?
<crimsun_> sistpoty: confirmed to fix it?
<sistpoty> crimsun_: I've been doing nothing else this evening... ;)
<sistpoty> crimsun_: though I'm not exactly sure if it fixes *all* integer overflow issues with dosfsck... (but I read through the sources twice)
<crimsun_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dosfstools/+bug/62831/comments/6
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62831 in dosfstools "fsck.vfat truncates files of 4294967295 bytes length to 0 bytes at boot-time" [High,Fix committed]  
<sistpoty> crimsun_: thanks :)
<crimsun_> thank you!
<sistpoty> ha, yesterday I found out, that I'm not even affected (the math is obviously done in 64-bit registers on amd64, so there are no overflows *g*)
<sistpoty> (my fat32 partition holds all my por^W vital data)
<crimsun_> smart decision to run amd64 ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
* crimsun_ notes the accept and hibernates for dinner
<bddebian> ryanakca: This is a Gnome applet?
<ryanakca> bddebian: kicker/KDE
<bddebian> Ahh.  Do you not need to use kde.mk?
<ryanakca> built fine without it... should I?
<joejaxx> hello all
<joejaxx> in the ubuntu book
<joejaxx> the companion cd
* ryanakca waves to joejaxx
<joejaxx> is that a livecd or a alternative install cd
<joejaxx> ryanakca: hello :D
<crimsun_> I'm pretty sure it's a desktop cd
<joejaxx> i am thinking live
<joejaxx> crimsun_: ah ok thanks
<TheMuso> crimsun_: http://www.themuso.id.au/0.3.2-0ubuntu1_0.3.2-0ubuntu2.diff for lsr
<crimsun_> 404
<crimsun_> TheMuso: ^
<TheMuso> crimsun_: www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/0.3.2-0ubuntu1_0.3.2-0ubuntu2.diff
* keescook beats clamav with a stick
<TheMuso> sorry slight error
<crimsun_> was that the only change?
<crimsun_> that diff doesn't appear to actually have a hunk for debian/control
<TheMuso> oops right
<TheMuso> thats weird
<TheMuso> having another look
<TheMuso> crimsun_: Try again
<TheMuso> Dunno why it didn't do it the first time.
<crimsun_> uploaded.
<crimsun_> ok, really off for dinner.
<bddebian> bon apetit
<LaserJock> man, you don't realize how used you are to a distro until you try another one
<LaserJock> I can't make heads or tails out of openSuse right now
<bddebian> heh
<chillywilly> blah
* ajmitch finds debian quite easy to manage still
<chillywilly> hehe :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Have you or your minions hit gnome-chemistry utils yet?
<ajmitch> probably because I've only been using debian or ubuntu for the last 6 years
<LaserJock> bddebian: hit it?
<bddebian> merge
<chillywilly> anything debian-based should be pretty easy ;)
<LaserJock> openSuse looks great, it's just ... different
<chillywilly> I wish RPM was never invented ;)
<bddebian> Ack, I forgot, I'm swearing off gnome packages anyway :-)
<LaserJock> I'm a little disappointed that they couldn't guess my "Favorite Applications" better
<LaserJock> I have to search each time to find a terminal
<LaserJock> bddebian: gchemutils could be a little interesting
<bddebian> LaserJock: ?
<LaserJock> well, it depends on getting chemical-mime-data in too
<LaserJock> but it looks like that made it
<LaserJock> that's good
<LaserJock> oh, the other thing is goffice
<LaserJock> it mostly likely won't work with Ubuntu's libgoffice
<bddebian> LaserJock: Are they on the merge lists?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> chemical-mime-data is a NEW package (already in)
<LaserJock> and libgoffice is *too* new (from Debian experimental)
<LaserJock> so you can see what a sync does, but I'm not sure if it'll even build with Ubuntu's goffice
<bddebian> LaserJock: Oh, I'm working under Scott's orders currently ;-P
<TheMuso> I don't understand what Scott was talking about. Are merges finishing up this week?
<LaserJock> bddebian: if you want just grab the Debian source and try it go for it
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I seriously doubt it but that's what his email seems to indicate
<chillywilly> what's goffice? Gnome Office?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> used by gnumeric, abiword (I think perhaps), and gchemutils
<chillywilly> sometimes I wonder why they even bother when there's openoffice ;)
<LaserJock> openoffice is rather large and for some things not as good
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> I have a dir name that ends in a digit and I want to strip that digit off, anyone have a sed line or some quick way to do that? oh wait I might have something...
<chillywilly> erm, pull the digit off and stick it in a var in a shell script
<sistpoty> crimsun_: got another patch to dosfstools: bug #68153. But this time I couldn't test it, so better read the diff carefully ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68153 in dosfstools "fsck.vfat hangs after renaming to FSCK9999.REN" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68153
* sistpoty is now off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<LaserJock> cya sistpoty 
<ajmitch> hello Amaranth, Hobbsee 
<Amaranth> hey
<LaserJock> bbiab
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch 
<bddebian> Hi Amaranth, Hobbsee :-)
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian :)
<Amaranth> hey bddebian
<chillywilly> anyone know if I can use another char besides '/' in a sed substitution?
<Hobbsee> you can use any character you like, cant you?
<chillywilly> yea, just tested that
<chillywilly> yep
<bddebian> Ugh, this is depressing..
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody around?
<bddebian> Nope :)
<bddebian> No-one "cool" anyway ;-)
<LaserJock> you'll do
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> I couldn't tell if I was actually connected or not, my client was doing funky things
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> I don't see any reason for keeping the changes to php-imlib.. Hmm
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you try to build gchemutils?
<bddebian> No, not yet :-(
<LaserJock> k, I'll give it a whirl
<bddebian> crimsun_: You about?
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> ajmitch: Would you mind looking at php-imlib changelog?  I don't see a reason to keep those changes.
<bddebian> Or you too LaserJock? :)
<bddebian> Never mind, I already filed a sync request :)
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<joejaxx> anyone know how to stop the oldworld macs from going into standby when you close the laptop?
<joejaxx> i already change the preferences in gnome-power-preferences
<joejaxx> to "Do nothing" when the screen is closed
<LaserJock> joejaxx: heh, I have the opposite problem
<LaserJock> weird thing is it used to work, then I did a reinstall and now no hibernation
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> :P
<LaserJock> man, pbuilder is soooooo slow on this laptop
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> what are you building?
<LaserJock> gchemutils
<LaserJock> takes forever to unpack and then takes forever to install build deps
<LaserJock> crap, and I made a typo
<LaserJock> wow, it took 6 minutes to unpack the pbuilder and install the builds deps
<nixternal> http://blog.nixternal.com
<nixternal> do you guys see that?
<LaserJock> nope
<nixternal> wow, i must say comcast propagates their dns pretty quick then
<Lathiat> nixternal: your dns is returning a TTL of 4 hours
<nixternal> so i noticed. it comes quick here though
<nixternal> ahh, because i just made some dns changes as well
<elkbuntu> australia is now officially stupid. anyone want to adopt me?
<crimsun_> sorry, but I don't think you'll be any happier here in the States.
<cypher1> can anyone pls tell what is this december 21st deadline for "Outstanding Merges" ?
<cypher1> sorry i meant is it for which release
<crimsun_> cypher1: it's the date on which autosync stops
<elkbuntu> crimsun_, are you still allowed to link to copyrighted material?
<crimsun_> elkbuntu: probably
<crimsun_> cypher1: "release"?
<cypher1> crimsun_: how can autosync stopping can be a deadline
<elkbuntu> crimsun_, jackpot!
<crimsun_> cypher1: why can't it be?
<cypher1> crimsun_: sorry i thought the repositories are freezing for some intermediate release
<cypher1> crimsun_: maybe i need to read more to understand it completely :)
<crimsun_> cypher1: no, those fall on milestones, like Herds, beta, RC, etc.
<cypher1> crimsun_: yes thats exactly what i meant by intermediate release :)
<cypher1> crimsun_: so this is for Herd1 ?
<crimsun_> Herd 1 released some time ago
<cypher1> crimsun_: hmm i need to be update with feisty :D
<crimsun_> this is just for the end of automatic Debian unstable imports
<cypher1> crimsun_: ok
<cypher1> crimsun_: thanks 
<daya> hi all
<daya> :)
* Hobbsee waves
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey daniel
<dholbach> heya Andrew
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach 
<gpocentek> morning
<Seeker`> hi
<Seeker`> what is the difference between an "outstanding merge" and an "updated merge"
<shawarma> Seeker`: updated merges are packages that have already been merged once in this cycle, but have since been updated in Debian.
<shawarma> Seeker`: outstanding merges have not yet been handled at all in this cycle.
<Seeker`> is there any difference in terms of the process of merging?
<shawarma> Seeker`: Not that I can think of.
<Seeker`> ok
<Seeker`> thanks
<shawarma> Seeker`: Any time.
* Seeker` may have another go at merging when he gets home
<imbrandon> sdfv
<imbrandon> moins all
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<imbrandon> seems today is not my day heh
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu 
* imbrandon is now officialy 28 
<Fujitsu> :O
<imbrandon> but it seems i fried horatio today
<imbrandon> sooo anyone using that to compile it will be down indefinately
<StevenK> imbrandon: Many happy returns!
<imbrandon> untill i can figure out a new computer scheme
<imbrandon> heya StevenK 
<tsmithe> hi imbrandon happy birthday
<imbrandon> thanks
<tsmithe> i could say something to make you feel really old...
<imbrandon> seems i dident get the ram seated all the way and managed to fry the MB and RAM
<imbrandon> tsmithe, haha
<imbrandon> i bet
<tsmithe> :D
<tsmithe> i'll keep it till tomorrow
<tsmithe> as today's not your day
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> no biggie, its just puter parts, and i still have my two servers to build on and a lappy to use till i get more parts
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<ajmitch> what's up?
<imbrandon> kinda sucks cuz i was looking forward to it 
<ajmitch> apart from frying things
<imbrandon> but no biggie
<imbrandon> ajmitch, nadda
<imbrandon> wakin up for the day
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> deciding what i'm gonna do today
<ajmitch> long day ahead at work?
<imbrandon> since i dontnope
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> nope
<imbrandon> i hate osx vt
<imbrandon> backspace dosent map right
<imbrandon> anyhow i'm off today tomarrow and the next day
<imbrandon> err yesterday today and tomarrow i guess now since its 3am
<imbrandon> heh
* imbrandon retunrs to work on the 21st
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> to load ubuntu on the lappy or to deal with osx for 3 days
<imbrandon> untill i get parts
<imbrandon> decisions decisions
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> wtf , there has to be a better terminal for osx
<ajmitch> ubuntu
<ajmitch> don't bother with OS X
<imbrandon> yea thats what i'm thinking
<imbrandon> well osx is on here now
<imbrandon> thats what i'm using
<imbrandon> BUT
<Fujitsu> Live CDs will save you!
<imbrandon> for an everyday os itheh
<imbrandon> dammit
<imbrandon> see backspace sucks here
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> so why are you up at 3AM?
<imbrandon> hrm time to find a ppc ubuntu cd
<imbrandon> went to bed early
<imbrandon> just wakin up
<imbrandon> woke up decided not to go back to bed
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i think i went to sleep at 9pm ( very very very early for me )
<\sh> happy birthday imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya \sh 
<imbrandon> looks like jono got dugg
<imbrandon> hehe
<Ash-Fox> I've been working on packaging a game, unfortunately it wasn't designed to be originally be 'multi-user', so I've devised a sort of trick to get around that (while leaving certain things customizable). Since this is going to be packaged, I was wondering if someone could advise me with said script: http://ash-fox.theden.ws/temp/glfrontier.txt it's working. But I'm not sure if that's a proper way todo things?
<daya> raphink, hi
<raphink> hi daya
* Ash-Fox reads up... "Happy birthday imbrandon"
<daya> raphink, what is the time there?
<raphink> 11:16
<imbrandon> thanks Ash-Fox 
<imbrandon> brb rebooting into ubuntu , i cant deal with this as an every day dev machine in osx
<imbrandon> its great for music and mobility but not dev
<imbrandon> anyhow brb
<StevenK> Heh, it can be if you can deal with TextMate, scp and ssh. :-P
<StevenK> Like iTunes can be better than Quod Libet or Amarok.
<Ash-Fox> I dislike how GNU tools are slower on OSX mostly
<imbrandon> ahh back on ubuntu
<imbrandon> well i just really dislike the terminal
<imbrandon> is the main thing in osx
<StevenK> But pointless graphics like a window smoking when you're burning a CD are hideously cheap!
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> See, it's *progress*!
<imbrandon> anyone tried ff 3 yet?
<Sp4rKy> hi there
* imbrandon assumes its not much diff that 2 yet
<imbrandon> heya
<Ash-Fox> Yes, the first thing I noticed, the fox in the logo was replaced with a bomb
<imbrandon> Voltron, defender of the universe!
* imbrandon stops
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> now i cant get to lugradio.com
<imbrandon> ;(
<imbrandon> i thought today was gonna be a good day
<imbrandon> but noooooooo
<\sh> sorry guys, could be that this was answered on some of our MLs but what is the work order for diffs between ubuntu and debian regarding firefix/iceweasel thunderbird/icedove?
<siretart> \sh: Perhaps you should ask this iwj?
<dholbach> siretart: he's on VAC
<dholbach> \sh: best to ask in #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> \sh: and say what your problem is with it
<\sh> dholbach: done :)
<dholbach> alrighty
<fernando> moin
* siretart_ waves to white :)
<white> siretart_: :)
<\sh> wow...manual bonding + vlan configuration on ubuntu == 2 minutes, on sles9/sles10 10 minutes
<\sh> *grmpf*
<Lathiat> hah
<siretart> \sh: still having fun with suse? how is your fai 3 buisness coming along?
<\sh> siretart: ubuntu rollout is running  but I have to change our network configuration from suses "bus id bonding setup" to real "debian alike ifenslave bond0 setup"
<\sh> and I need a good solution for finding out which busid is which ethX device
<Lathiat> \sh: /sys ?
<\sh> then I can remove all sles9 installations
<Lathiat>  /sys/class/net/<int>/device
<Lathiat> lathiat@chiana:/sys/class/net/eth0$ lspci|grep 00:0a.0
<Lathiat> 00:0a.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation CK804 Ethernet Controller (rev a3)
<Lathiat> lathiat@chiana:/sys/class/net/eth0$ ls -la /sys/class/net/eth0/device
<Lathiat> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 2006-12-20 05:16 /sys/class/net/eth0/device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0a.0
<\sh> Lathiat: other way around ;)
<Lathiat> well ls -la /sys/class/netwell
<siretart> lshal? *duck*
<Lathiat> ls -la  /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0a.0|grep net:
<Lathiat> or ls -la /sys/class/net/*/device i guess
<\sh> that is the solution ;)
<\sh> thx
<Lathiat> find /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:0a.0/ -name "net:*" -exec readlink {} \;|cut -d/ -f6
<Lathiat> lshal also has merit
<\sh> guys, do you know a good webcam which runs nicely on edgy?
<\sh> (without patching the kernel of course)
<tsmithe> how do i dget sources from revu?
<Admiral_Chicago> \sh: i know of one
<Admiral_Chicago> let me grab the link
<imbrandon> tsmithe, dget the url to the dsc file
<tsmithe> cool, cheers
<\sh> Admiral_Chicago: cool...
<Admiral_Chicago> \sh: http://community.livejournal.com/ubuntu_users/156994.html
<Admiral_Chicago> is that what you mean?
<ScottK> I have a package that I would like to upload to REVU.  I've added myself to Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe.  Would one of the REVU Admins please re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring so I can upload the package?
<\sh> Admiral_Chicago: thx
<Admiral_Chicago> to problem
<Admiral_Chicago> no* opps
<raphink> I will ScottK
* Admiral_Chicago waves to raphink
<raphink> ScottK: it will take a few minutes
<raphink> hi Admiral_Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> gotta run and start this final essay.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<raphink> ScottK: done
<raphink> what is yoru package ScottK?
<cypher1> is it mandatory to sign a merged package ?
<ScottK> Thanks.  It's an update to the python-spf package.  The current package is about 2 years out of date.
<raphink> alright
<joejaxx> this should be fun
<joejaxx> trying to convert ntfs to ext3 on the fly
<xerxas> can I reject this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/73061
<xerxas> ?
<xerxas> #73061
<xerxas> oops , ubugtu is not here ! 
<xerxas> :)
<joejaxx> lol
<geser> cypher1: what do you mean with "sign a merged package" ?
<cypher1> geser, i meant gpg signed
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> cypher1: what do you want gpg sign exactly?
<cypher1> geser, sorry i meant should i sign with my private key while building a merged package ?
<cypher1> hi bddebian 
<geser> it's only needed for uploading but not for creating a debdiff
<bddebian> Heya cypher1
<cypher1> geser, thanks it is for uploading
<cypher1> geser, i have signed now
<ScottK> raphink - Uploaded pyspf_2.0.1-1 to revu.  Thanks.
<raphink> good ScottK :)
<webben> Does anyone know a good introduction to package .spec files?
<ScottK> raphink - This is (obviously) the first time I've done this.  What's the next step in the process for getting the packaged reviewed?
<raphink> webben: how about asking #fedora, #redhat, #mandriva or any other rpm distro?
<raphink> ScottK: asking here for the reviewer
<webben> raphink, Oh... sorry, I thought .spec was used
<raphink> .spec is for rpm packages
<webben> I see
<webben> i wonder if checkinstall uses it even when building debs
<raphink> it shouldn't
<raphink> I don't see a reason why it would at least
<ScottK> OK.  I'd like to have pyspf_2.0.1-1 reviewed... (is that right?)
<raphink> sure ScottK 
<ScottK> Thanks.
<raphink> you can also send an email to the motu-reviewers mailing list
<raphink> to ask for a review
<webben> raphink, where does a debian packaging process typically get information about the package, e.g. Depends?
<raphink> in the debian/ dir
<raphink> you should read the Ubuntu packaging guide
<raphink> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<raphink> you'll find all the infos about this :)
<webben> raphink, I have. I found it difficult to understand. But I'm pretty sure it won't help me work out what checkinstall does when there's no debian directory in src.
<raphink> checkinstall creates the debian directory imo
<webben> maybe it converts .spec somehow
<raphink> hmm well no idea
<raphink> ;)
<webben> raphink, Yeah it definitely uses .spec ... I commented out the Require: lines which were causing difficulty and now it managed to build the package
<raphink> ok
<webben> (can't work out what was wrong with the Require lines, but it definitely didn't like them)
<ScottK> Where do I find the motu-reviewers mailing list.  Ubuntu-motu is the closest I find on https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/
<cypher1> i have uploaded a package.. how can i check it
<cypher1> where can i see the current uploads to REVU ?
<ScottK> Never mind.  Found it (motu-reviewers).
<cypher1> i uploaded resolvconf-1.37ubuntu1 .. can anyone review it ?
<geser> cypher1: sorry, I already merged it two hours ago
<geser> cypher1: merges usually don't go to revu
<bddebian> Such a PITA
<cypher1> geser, ah.. i had asked the previous owner crimsun yesterday
<bddebian> I hate not knowing who is doing what :-)
<cypher1> arghh
<cypher1> no problem :) although i was sleepless today sitting for this :(
<cypher1> geser, so how should one submit the merges ?
<geser> create a debdiff, attach it to a bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<cypher1> geser, is there a bug or one has to create it ?
<geser> you have to create one
<cypher1> geser, ok
<cypher1> so i guess i have to send a mail to ubuntu-universe-sponsors@ubuntu.com to subscribe ?
<geser> no, subscribe u-u-s to your bug in LP
<cypher1> geser, ok thanks :)
<cypher1> is anyone working on merge of ire package in universe ?
<geser> cypher1: sistpoty uploaded a merge
<cypher1> he he
<geser> have it seen just on feisty-changes
<cypher1> geser, is there any url from which i can see the current uploaded merges
<geser> you can subscribe feisty-changes
<geser> each new upload will be reported by mail
<geser> cypher1: you can also try the rss feed: http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/feisty.xml
<geser> but it seems to lag a little bit behind
<cypher1> geser, yes i cannot see the ire
<cypher1> geser, thanks a lot
<cypher1> geser, are you merging coolmail ?
<geser> I filed a sync request
<geser> bug 76349
<geser> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/coolmail/+bug/76349
<geser> currently I filling a sync request for subtitleeditor
<cypher1> geser, sorry i am new to this, so you will be doing the sync also right ?
<bddebian> Go geser, go geser :)
<cypher1> bddebian, :)
<bddebian> cypher1: No, only archive admins can do syncs
<joejaxx> so everyone i guess this is a big step for me
<joejaxx> i am about to convert 2tb of hard drives from ntfs to ext3
<joejaxx> :)
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> that's one partition or more of them?
<joejaxx> what do you mean?
<ivoks> never mind... :)
<joejaxx> lol
<ivoks> let's do some merging
<joejaxx> ivoks: merging? i have not done that before
<joejaxx> bddebian2: it another bddebian!
<bddebian2> Ack, wtf
<geser> let's see if bddebian and bddebian2 also merge :)
<bddebian2> Heh
<bddebian> Aww, bddebian2 died :)
* joejaxx goes to read about merging for ubuntu
<_Enchained> bddebian: Do you have a few minutes ?
<bddebian> _Enchained: A little bit
<_Enchained> I'm packaging a lib
<_Enchained> the version is 0.1.5pre
<_Enchained> someone said to me this version will result in problems
<_Enchained> when the official 0.1.5 version will be released
<bddebian> Possibly.  You will need to check the SONAME
<_Enchained> and that I should chane it in 0.1.5~pre
<bddebian> But I'm the worlds worst lib packager so.. :)
<_Enchained> so, I changed this in debian/changelog and renamed the orig.tar.gz and the folder, like He said to me
<_Enchained> but I have this error on build :
<_Enchained> ranlib: '/tmp/buildd/libfoo-0.1.5': No such file
<_Enchained> I don(t know what to do... :/
<_Enchained> s/(/'
<ivoks> bddebian: i forgot, while merging, do we change name or leave Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic?
<joejaxx> merging seems fun
<ivoks> lol, forget that question :)
<bddebian> ivoks: I change them
<bddebian> _Enchained: Have you read the Debian library packaging guide?
<geser> ivoks: if you are not Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic change it
<ivoks> geser: :) '< ivoks> lol, forget that question :)'
<_Enchained> I read a guide I don't know its the same
<joejaxx> ivoks: lol
<_Enchained> bddebian: a link ?
<joejaxx> how many merges are left?
<bddebian> _Enchained: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<ivoks> let's see how this will work out
<ivoks> aircrack-ng merged
<joejaxx> nevermind i found the merge-o-matic page
<_Enchained> thx
<geser> joejaxx: it's hard to say: MoM lists nearly 150 remaining merges but some are alread done, some have a sync requested and some are fakesyncs
<joejaxx> where is the color legend for MoM?
<ivoks> bddebian: how should i ping to just do sync?
<joejaxx> there is one for the statistics but not the merges
<joejaxx> bah i will just pick one :)
<bddebian> ivoks: Just submit a bug on LP and give where to pull from debian, the version, the component (ie main, non-free, etc).  Why the Ubuntu changes can be dropped and the latest Changelog entry from the Debian package
<bddebian> Then subscribe ubuntu-archive
<ivoks> grrr
<ivoks> i wasn't here for a while
<ivoks> so i forgot most of the stuff :(
<bddebian> I know the feeling ;-)
<ivoks> heh :)
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> why is there not a firestarter 1.0.3-1.2 in debian? there is only -1.1 and -1.3
<joejaxx> but the ubuntu version for edgy is 1.0.3-1.2ubuntu3
<joejaxx> anyone know the answer to that one?
<cypher1> should i file the bug in a specific format for a merge ?
<joejaxx> bddebian: do you know why that is?
<bddebian> joejaxx: I'll have to look at it in a sec
<bddebian> joejaxx: There should have been a 1.2 in Debian.  http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/f/firestarter/current/changelog
<joejaxx> bddebian: ah ok
<tsmithe> How do i use dcut?
<\sh> tsmithe: for what do you need it
<tsmithe> well, my internet connection died in a dput
<tsmithe> and now i can't finish it
<\sh> rm *.upload and reupload?
<tsmithe> there are no *.upload files
<tsmithe> i can ftp into revu, but i can't delete the file from /incoming
<joejaxx> bddebian: i wonder how i should go about trying to do this then
<\sh> broken uploads will be removed from the buiild system...
<\sh> or do you mean revu=
<tsmithe> revu
<tsmithe> if you can, the file i want deleted is /incoming/alsa-firmware_1.0.14rc1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> tsmithe: which package?
<tsmithe> alsa-firmware
<\sh> argl I'm not allowed anymore :(
<tsmithe> :(
<\sh> who has rights to sudo on tiber?
<tsmithe> not i
<\sh> well a actual revu admin has to do it :(
<tsmithe> damn
<tsmithe> so i can't just dcut rm alsa...
<tsmithe> cos that doesn't work
<\sh> bddebian: hey, do you have sudo rights on tiber?
<joejaxx> i wonder why all the packages i am picking do not have debian counterparts with the same version
<bddebian> Sheesh
<tsmithe> howdy?
<tsmithe> bad day?
<bddebian> joejaxx: What do you mean?
<joejaxx> bddebian: for instances ivman 0.6.12-3ubuntu2 < ubuntu      ivman 0.6.12-5 < debian
<joejaxx> instance*
<bddebian> Right, so it needs to be merged. And if Ubuntu changes need to be kept, the new Ubuntu version will be 0.6.12-5ubuntu1
<joejaxx> bddebian: yes but where is the 0.6.12-3 debian diff so i can reference it
<bddebian> packages.ubuntu.com or pull source package from Edgy or Feisty
<joejaxx> bddebian: i mean from debian
<bddebian> Or you can use the merge scripts but I don't use them so I can't help you there
<bddebian> You don't need it from Debian
<tsmithe> does anyone have sudo rights on tiber?
<joejaxx> bddebian: #
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> someone needs to fix copy/paste on debian
<joejaxx> i mean ubuntu
* joejaxx is having a bad day lol
<geser> joejaxx: http://merges.ubuntu.com/i/ivman/ to get all the files you need for a merge
<joejaxx> geser: thanks :)
<bddebian> slomo: !!
<bddebian> slomo: Hey was faad2 a multimedia package or did it come straight from Debian?
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<slomo> bddebian: i packaged it separately... please don't merge/sync it from debian (see the one grave bugreport in debian on it)
<joejaxx> slomo: did you merge ivman already?
<bddebian> slomo: OK, thx
<bddebian> LaserJock!!
<slomo> joejaxx: no, feel free to take it
<LaserJock> anybody else still confused as to why merges must be done in the next 2 days?
<joejaxx> slomo: thanks :)
<Adri2000> LaserJock: it's only for main?
<LaserJock> apparently not
<Adri2000> from cjwatson's email: "merges from Debian to the main and restricted components should be completed by this Thursday"
<slomo> bddebian: we simply can't use the version in debian (2.5) in any application... because of ugly license
<slomo> LaserJock: doesn't this only apply to main?
<LaserJock> well, they put Universe in Multiverse in there so I'm not sure
<LaserJock> and it's still not what the release schedules says
<zul> why dont you just ask cjwatson
<LaserJock> cause I don't want to get slapped ;-)
<zul> meh..
<Adri2000> "to the main and restricted components" it seems clear no?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: LOL
<LaserJock> especially if somebody had already asked
<LaserJock> Adri2000: but Scott's email includes Universe and Multiverse
<slomo> bddebian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=403117
<LaserJock> and there is no separation on the release schedule
<bddebian> I'll ask
<Adri2000> LaserJock: where was Scott's email sent to? I didn't receive it
<LaserJock> ubuntu-devel
<Adri2000> ok, I'm only subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure how they are enforcing this though
<LaserJock> I can see if it is a "We'd like to get merges done by Thursday", but a "You must have merges done by Thursday" is different
<zul> LaserJock: it wont be a hard bitchslap
<LaserJock> I still think it stinks for Main too, I was going to try a few more
<zul> LaserJock: take one for the team ;)
<LaserJock> zul: heh, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't coming to the party late when it had already been settled
<LaserJock> well, that really doesn't make things much better
<LaserJock> so when *do* merges have to be done by in Universe?
<joejaxx> if there is already a ubuntu versioned package of the new debian version does that mean the merge has already been done?
<joejaxx> for example
<joejaxx> http://merges.ubuntu.com/i/ivman/
<LaserJock> well, that's ... interesting
<bddebian> joejaxx: Probably
<joejaxx> bddebian: lol
<slomo> joejaxx: no... -3ubuntuX is old version, -5 is new debian version, -5ubuntuX stuff on there is automatically merged stuff but might contain conflicts or something
<joejaxx> so where is the correct list of undone merges
<joejaxx> ?
<joejaxx> slomo: oh
<slomo> joejaxx: you have to review it by hand and then either upload that thing or make some changes
<slomo> joejaxx: it's all explained in the README there
<slomo> REPORT
<LaserJock> well, so much for me going for core-dev today
<somerville32> LaserJock: Did you change your nick again?
<LaserJock> well, just went back I guess
<LaserJock> I'm on a different IRC client
<LaserJock> hmm, so we really should get merges done very soon
<\sh> if somebody wants to take bacula merge...take it...I won't find the time
<\sh> I have to fight with a new mail server farm concept :(
<bddebian> LaserJock: You were going to go for core-dev?
<LaserJock> bddebian: perhaps, maybe I'll wait until after Christmas though
<bddebian> Wow, go d00d
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :D
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure
<\sh> LaserJock:try it now, so you have a nice xmas present for yourself ;)
<LaserJock> hehe, maybe if I told them I'd do some Main merges tomorrow
<zul> heh...accept me for core-dev and i might do some merges for you right LaserJock? ;)
<LaserJock> mhm, blackmail
<bddebian> I thought about doing some but I don't want a bitchslap either ;-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> well, I did do 1 already
<LaserJock> but I don't think 1 merge counts for much
<bddebian> I thought all Debian packages had to conform to the new python policy by now?
<LaserJock> well, you'd think so
<LaserJock> kinda depends on what kind of package it is
<LaserJock> if it's a python app that has private modules, it doesn't seem to be a big deal
<LaserJock> if it's a public extension I think they want it done
<bddebian> Ah, Stephan built it with py-support.. Hmm
<cypher1> i merged doc++ and raised bug 76479
<cypher1> am i supposed to subscribe ubuntu-universe-contributors to it ?
<bddebian> cypher1: If you are not an MOTU, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<geser> cypher1: ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<cypher1> bddebian, do you mean approved as MOTU ?
<cypher1> geser, thanks
<geser> cypher1: u-u-contributors are the revu people
<cypher1> geser, ok.. i have attached a debdiff to the bug.. is that where i have to stop working on this merge ?
<joejaxx> hmwhat is the name of that new disk usage tool
<joejaxx> in edgy
<geser> cypher1: yes, all that is needed now is a MOTU to upload it
<cypher1> geser, when will that happen ? or when i will be able to see my merge on the universe ? ;)
<geser> it depends when a MOTU has time
<geser> I may look at it in 2-3 hours
<cypher1> geser, thanks
<joejaxx> if rsync -cr does what i think it does rsync is the best file transfer applicationhaha
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> pbuilder stop signing my packages
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> Gnome Scan 0.4 release !!
<cypher1> during a merge i hope i am supposed to do the debdiff between the old ubuntu dsc and new ubuntu dsc file.. please correct me if i understood wrong
<bddebian> Frick, goffice is main
<tsmithe> hey there
<geser> cypher1: it depends on the person doing the upload of the debdiff
<geser> cypher1: I prefer a debdiff between the debian dsc and the merged dsc as it is easier to check
<LaserJock> bddebian: yes, it is
<LaserJock> cypher1: yeah for merges debdiff from the new Debian to the new Ubuntu
<cypher1> geser, i had uploaded debdiff between the two ubuntu dsc's for bug 76479, i will upload the other debdiff also
<cypher1> LaserJock, ok
<geser> cypher1: thanks
<LaserJock> if there was a new upstream release between the too you also get a diff of the upstream, which is not nice when you're trying to review changes
<LaserJock> s/too/two/
<bddebian> LaserJock: Did it build OK?
<tsmithe> how do i chose when to use cdbs and when not?
<bddebian> tsmithe: If it's a new package it's personal choice
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> but, as a new 'n, what influences my decision?
<tsmithe> i don't really know enough about it
<tsmithe> yet
<tsmithe> to decide for myself
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> For simple packages cdbs tend to be "easiest" but a little less flexible in some regards
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> tsmithe: do it when it's suitable
<tsmithe> :)
<ajmitch> so is there a TB meeting today, I wonder
<ajmitch> just being in the u-meeting topic doesn't make it true
<SlimG> is the copyright file supposed to be placed at /usr/share/doc/<package name>/copyright ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: goffice? I tried gchemutils
<bddebian> LaserJock: How'd you do that without libgoffice-1-dev?
<LaserJock> I gave it libgoffice-0-dev :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: it FTBFS because of some headers that have been obsoleted in libgoffice-0-dev
<LaserJock> but I talked with the gchemutils author last night
<bddebian> I'm trying goffice from Experimental atm ;-)
<LaserJock> he said that it might be fixable
<LaserJock> bddebian: that's what we have in Ubuntu
<bddebian> Where?
<LaserJock> Feisty
<LaserJock> we've been using the goffice packages from experimental since Edgy
<SlimG> does anyone know if the copyright file is supposed to be placed at /usr/share/doc/<package name>/copyright ?
<LaserJock> that's why there is such a problem
<LaserJock> SlimG: I think that's right
<bddebian> So where is libgoffice-1-dev from?
<LaserJock> unstable
<bddebian> wtf
<LaserJock> libgoffice-0-dev > libgoffice-1-dev
<LaserJock> gotta love that :-)
<bddebian> Uhm..
<LaserJock> if we took libgoffice from unstable I'd be set
* bddebian packs up and goes home
<LaserJock> heh
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how does that work?
<joejaxx> lol
<bddebian> :)
<LaserJock> you have to look at the version numbers
<highvoltage> (that the 0-dev > 1-dev)
<LaserJock> libgoffice-0-dev is 0.3
<LaserJock> libgoffice-1-dev is 0.2
<joejaxx> LOL
<highvoltage> ah
<joejaxx> who did that? lol
<LaserJock> not really sure, I think the Debian maintainer
<LaserJock> but it could be upstream too
<LaserJock> anyway
<joejaxx> toobad there is not a progress bar on rsync
* joejaxx is rsyncing 15gb :\
<LaserJock> sure there is
<joejaxx> lol when the hard drive activity light stops flashing 
<joejaxx> but alas there  is not one on these eld macs
<joejaxx> old*
<cypher1> i have filed another merge request : bug 76483 - can someone please review it ?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what do i have to do differently then what the ubuntu-motu docs say since mom automatically merged it
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: well i wanted to merge a package
<joejaxx> but MoM automatically merged it
<LaserJock> MoM automatically merges everything
<bddebian> LaserJock: How far bad are the missing/changed headers for gchemutils?
<joejaxx> and i am wondering what i should do different from what the ubuntu-motu docs asay
<LaserJock> bddebian: the author thought not too bad
<ajmitch> any bets on which will release first - feisty or etch? :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'll take that bet if I get fiesty ;-P
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i thought etch was supposed to release this month?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: this is debian
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> right
<joejaxx> nevermind :)
<joejaxx> i still say etch :P
<LaserJock> bddebian: the other factor is that goffice and gchemutils we be releasing together in mid-March
<LaserJock> bddebian: so I'm unsure if I should just wait or not
<LaserJock> it'd kinda pushing it
<bddebian> Gahh
<joejaxx> LaserJock: but what about the reviewing paart
<joejaxx> that is stated in the repot as slomo said
<joejaxx> report*
<tsmithe> i have a problem: what packages replaces xlibmesa-glu-dev?
<tsmithe> *package
<sistpoty> hi folks
<tsmithe> hi
<tsmithe> do you know about xlibmesa-glu-dev?
<tsmithe> or how to find replacements for obviously deprecated packages?
<cypher1> packages.ubuntu.com ?
<sistpoty> tsmithe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/GLU
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<tsmithe> danke schoen
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> tsmithe: bitte ;)
<tsmithe> :)
<bhale> hi.
<sistpoty> hi bhale
<tsmithe> bah pbuilder takes so long...
<bddebian> Heya bhale
<sistpoty> anybody experience with tun/tap devices?
<sistpoty> I have the problem, that as normal user "ioctl(tap_fd, TUNSETIFF, (void *) &ifr);" this will give the result Device or resource busy. works with root privs though.
<sistpoty> anyone a clue?
<sistpoty> (permissions on /dev/net/tun are right)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: the merged package MoM puts out is only a guide
<chantra> geser: are you here?
<geser> yes
<bhale> I dont look at MoM
* sistpoty neither
<chantra> just checked your sync request https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/subtitleeditor/+bug/76465
<LaserJock> I just look at the report
<chantra> didn't I do good?
<chantra> there https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/subtitleeditor/+bug/76216
<geser> chantra: debian packages without a change are synced and not merged
<chantra> geser: you mean they stay package-version-X and  not package-version-XubuntuY
<geser> yes
<chantra> okie dokie
<joejaxx> LaserJock: why does MoM exist then
<joejaxx> LaserJock: or the automatic properties of it
<ajmitch> because they're often useful
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty 
<joejaxx> ajmitch: oh ok
<joejaxx> ajmitch: so then i should still do it manually
<ajmitch> do whatever works best :)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: well i do not know what to do with MoM output
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i am following the ubuntu-motu merging guide
<ajmitch> use the MoM output if it looks sane
<ryanakca> can someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3824 ?
<ryanakca> wait, nevermind :)
<ryanakca> can someone help me figure out what those comments mean please?
<bddebian> joejaxx: I do them manually because I don't trust scripts.  Of course I probably also make mistakes on occasion
<ryanakca> "W: solseek; The library solseek_panelapplet is not in a shlibs file"... no clue what that means
<bddebian> ryanakca: I'm not sure how cdbs packages do dh_makeshlibs
<SlimG> anyone know where changelog should be placed within a deb package project?
<ryanakca> bddebian: same...
<bddebian> SlimG: debian/changelog
<ryanakca> bddebian: what if I tried adding kde.mk...
<SlimG> bddebian: thanx
<bddebian> ryanakca: That's why I asked the other day.  Unfortunately I just don't know :-(
<mdke> hi there. I'd quite like to do a patch on yelp, is there a simply page that will talk me through it? I don't want to have to learn very much, if possible
<mdke> simply/simple
<bddebian> Is there a patch system already in the package?
<mdke> I mean, can I just do the patch, and then type "debuild" in the source tree?
<ryanakca> mdke: on motu-school on wiki
<ryanakca> just a sec
<mdke> bddebian: yes, I'd simply be changing an existing Ubuntu patch
<joejaxx> bddebian: i am still trying to figure out whether this MoM is sane or not lol
<ryanakca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<ryanakca> mdke: ^^
<mdke> thanks
<tsmithe> urgh... i've gotta learn autoconf syntax
<joejaxx> fun stuff
<tsmithe> not really
<tsmithe> ;)
<joejaxx> :)
<tsmithe> i want the configure script to check for fftw3-dev
<tsmithe> so i've gotta mod configure.ac
<tsmithe> or shall i just leave it with a build-dep in control?
<tsmithe> and take the easy way out...
<bhale> a build-dep is sufficient for ubuntu purposes
<bhale> if you want to be a good citizen you can send a configure.ac patch upstream
<tsmithe> as i was gonna say
<tsmithe> i want the source to be healthy
<tsmithe> i might end up doing that
<tsmithe> but why doesn't this check for the lib: "AC_CHECK_HEADERS([fftw3.h] )
<tsmithe> AC_CHECK_LIB(fftw3, fftw_plan_dft_1d)"
<tsmithe> ?
<tsmithe> yay! patches
<tsmithe> no wonder it doesnt work!
<tsmithe> i didn't add it to 00list!
<joejaxx> because tsmithe touched it!! :O
<bddebian> heh
<joejaxx> :P
<tsmithe> /ignore joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
* tsmithe adds it to 00listr
<tsmithe> no
<tsmithe> i don't add it there
<tsmithe> that's won't be any good
<tsmithe> no
<tsmithe> no
<tsmithe> no!
<tsmithe> *that won't be any good
* tsmithe adds it to 00list
<tsmithe> and now i'm gonna go cry somewhere where there aren't 142 pairs of eyes staring down at me
<tsmithe> from "above"
<tsmithe> ...
* LaserJock gives tsmithe a karaoke machine and walks away
<tsmithe> "Is this the real life-
<tsmithe> Is this just fantasy-
<tsmithe> Caught in a landslide-
<tsmithe> No escape from reality-
<tsmithe> Open your eyes
<tsmithe> Look up to the skies and see-
<tsmithe> Im just a poor boy,i need no sympathy-
<tsmithe> Because Im easy come,easy go,
<tsmithe> A little high,little low,
<tsmithe> Anyway the wind blows,doesnt really matter to me,
<bhale> please stop.
<tsmithe> To me
<tsmithe> "
<bddebian> Now I remember why I had tsmithe on ignore
<tsmithe> "Mama, just killed a package"
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> :(
<tsmithe> :'(
<bhale> gosh
<tsmithe> i was weeping
<joejaxx> LOL
<tseng> yawn
<tseng> someone unbroke the access list
<bddebian> Uh oh, now you've done it, now you've brought tseng out
<tsmithe> what does that mean?
<joejaxx> LOL
<tseng> oh
<tseng> wrong nickserv pw
<tseng> tsmithe: that means i asked you to stop acting like a little kid and you kept on going
<tsmithe> sorry
<tsmithe> :(
<tsmithe> i just had to have the line that was actually different from the original
* tseng goes back into hibernation
* tsmithe goes back to packaging
<tsmithe> i give up on this patch
<tsmithe> i just don't see what autoconf needs to be so cryptic
<tsmithe> even when it's simple it fails miserably
<Burgwork> life is fun. Nautilus is now refusing to burn isos
<joejaxx> Burgwork: lol
<joejaxx> what does it say?
<Burgwork> nothing
<joejaxx> :\
<hub> Burgwork: could be worse
<hub> Burgwork: last time at work, when I tried that using our product, it did a CD with the ISO file on it
<joejaxx> LaserJock: pm?
<LaserJock> yeah
<hub> Burgwork: so I apt-get installed nautilus-cd-burner
<Burgwork> hmm, it is new permissions error
<Burgwork> not member of the cdrom group
<_Enchained> Hi all
<tsmithe> hi
<_Enchained> Somebody to review something ?
<tsmithe> _Enchained, there's a revu sprint starting tomorrow
<tsmithe> i'd wait if it were you ;)
<_Enchained> a revu sprint ?...
<tsmithe> people are unlikely to work if pestered.
<tsmithe> trust me; it's better to not
<tsmithe> yeah: where motus revu lots of packages
<tsmithe> (i hope)
<tsmithe> ;)
<_Enchained> ok
<_Enchained> in fact the package is already advocated by 1
<tsmithe> cool
<tsmithe> more than mine
<tsmithe> :)
<_Enchained> so it need another ^
<tsmithe> and if there's a revu admin here: please could you delete a file for me
<sistpoty> tsmithe: what do you want deleted?
<tsmithe> yay!
<tsmithe> alsa-firmware_1.0.14rc1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<tsmithe> it's in incoming
<tsmithe> thanks mate
<sistpoty> tsmithe: gone
<tsmithe> cheers lots
<sistpoty> np
<tsmithe> :)
<bddebian> Hmm, I'm not quite sure what doko changed in mercurial..
<sistpoty> bddebian: new upstream version? if not, a debdiff might help#
<sistpoty> _Enchained: which package do you want reviewed?
<_Enchained> sistpoty: nautilus-image-converter
<sistpoty> _Enchained: ok, will take a look
<_Enchained> bddebian already reviewed it
<_Enchained> it seems to be fine
<_Enchained> thanks
<sistpoty> np
<_Enchained> a question with cdbs :
<_Enchained> how remove config.{guess,sub} ?
<_Enchained> with debhelper, it's in the debian/rules but I don't know with cdbs...
<tsmithe> bah i use debhelper
<tsmithe> i like the power it gives me
<bddebian> sistpoty: I got it, thx
<_Enchained> Somtimes it's easier with cdbs ^^ (with libs for example)
<sistpoty> _Enchained: nautilus-image-converter: I guess you don't need autotools-dev build-dependency
<_Enchained> I test...
<sistpoty> oh, nice: haven't seen this one yet: "This library is free software... distribute it under the GPL" ... nice :)
<sistpoty> _Enchained: please do just a bunzip2 and gzip -9 on the .tar.bz2 and don't repack the tar itself
<_Enchained> ok
<bddebian> Later gang
<sistpoty> _Enchained: maybe you'd like to put AUTHORS to docs as well...
<sistpoty> _Enchained: but in general, all these are just minor points, package is in really good shape as is
<joejaxx> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37990/ << debdiff for ivman feisty merge
<_Enchained> I corrected this. I build and dput
<tsmithe> so who did fmit before me?!
<_Enchained> (sistpoty: I updated it)
<sistpoty> _Enchained: will look at it (in a few minutes)
<_Enchained> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-20
<joejaxx> time to pick another merge lol
<ivoks> hi
<tsmithe> hiya
<sistpoty> hi ivoks
<ivoks> i hate voodoo in debian/patches :/
<ivoks> this guy adds sed scripts in debian/patches and runs them trough rules
<ivoks> should i follow his logic or do it like it should be done :)
* lupine_85 passes ivoks a chicken
<ivoks> :)
<lupine_85> debian & ubuntu specify no direct changes to the source :/
<ivoks> this aren't direct changes
<ivoks> this is debian/patches
<ivoks> and this guy doesn't use patch to patch things up
<ivoks> he uses sed
<lupine_85> weird
<lupine_85> i would just use sed in debian/rules directly
<lupine_85> or run sed on patches, which are then applied... depending on context :)
<ivoks> urgh... i'm really not in the mood for sed scripts :/
<sistpoty> _Enchained: uploaded
<_Enchained> thanks sistpoty
<sistpoty> thanks for you contribution, _Enchained ;)
<_Enchained> it's a joy for me
<ivoks> sistpoty: any advice? :)
<sistpoty> ivoks: working on a merge?
<ivoks> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> ivoks: how many sed scripts are there?
<ivoks> sistpoty: 3
<ivoks> and each is called from rules
<sistpoty> ivoks: I guess 3 small ones? Then maybe I'd apply them once, and kick them out, and ship the stuff in the diff
<ivoks> i really don't understand why he did it this way
<sistpoty> ivoks: I assume, he wanted to keep the diff small
<ivoks> sistpoty: actually, bacula is allready merged, but FTBS
<ivoks> sistpoty: our newer libc-dev has variable that bacula was using
<sistpoty> nice
<ivoks> 'tee'
<ivoks> it's not big problem, but...
<sistpoty> ivoks: do you need to touch the sed scripts to fix this?
<ivoks> no
<ivoks> i would like to do it with patch
<ivoks> and i'll do it :/
<sistpoty> ivoks: I would go the way of least resistance... just modify the source and don't care about a patch-system
<ivoks> hm...
<sistpoty> (but I'm lazy, and I don't like patch systems *g*)
<ivoks> we can't touch source
<ivoks> that creates lots of headache later :)
<ivoks> argh.... it's 00:43
<sistpoty> ivoks: why would that? (of course I mean source via plain .diff.gz, not orig-tarball)
<sistpoty> or this this one of the tarball in the tarball thingy?
<ivoks> no, it's not
<ivoks> i could do it that way, yes...
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<bddebian> Heya gang
<joejaxx> anyone nkow why i whould be getting ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Device or resource busy
<joejaxx> on the ubuntu livecd?
<joejaxx> know*
<joejaxx> hello bddebian 
<joejaxx> i did that ivman merge
<joejaxx> :)
<bddebian> Good man
<crimsun_> ah, good ole ivman
* crimsun_ has FOND memories
<bddebian> heh
<joejaxx> :) yeah i like it
<bddebian> crimsun_: When are you leaving us?
<crimsun_> 10 hours
<bddebian> Doh
<ajmitch> we'll miss you, honest
<joejaxx> yeap :(
<bhale> going where?
<joejaxx> crimsun_: whould you know why i whould be getting a device busy for /dev/loop0 on the ubuntu livecd?
<crimsun_> bhale: irvine>oakland>kowloon
<bhale> crimsun_: but we'll see you again in a few weeks?
<crimsun_> tomorrow for revu, then next wednesday
<crimsun_> joejaxx: sorry, what's the context? when? where?
<bhale> maybe unmounting it?
<joejaxx> crimsun_: on the ubuntu edgy livecd
<joejaxx> crimsun_: normally i use knoppix to do this
<crimsun_> right, but when?
<joejaxx> crimsun_: well in this case using losetup
<crimsun_> try using the next loop device
<joejaxx> i should be using dm_crypt but bah
<joejaxx> crimsun_: i did
<joejaxx> ioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument
<crimsun_> interesting, haven't seen that on the 6.10 live cd
<joejaxx> maybe i should use an older ubuntu cd
<joejaxx> it will not matter as i am debootstraping anyway
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> i am just wondering why i am getting that error though
<joejaxx> hold on bbl booting fluxbuntu
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> i am back
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> it does not work on dapper either
<joejaxx> that is unfortunate
<joejaxx> :\
<bddebian> Heya Laser
<bddebian> +Jock
<joejaxx> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi guys
* ajmitch hopes etch releases in a few weeks, so we can use it at work
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
<crimsun_> 2/3 of the motu trinity!
<ajmitch> yay!
* bhale acts reverent like
<bddebian> *cough*
<LaserJock> heh
<bhale> sorry
* ajmitch should probably do more work on debian
* bhale too
<bhale> since dajobe seems to have thrown in the towl
<bhale> and beowulf pops up once a month
<LaserJock> well, so what exactly is the point of waiting until it's released?
<ajmitch> in my case, we have servers from a hosting provider
<ajmitch> so it's a good thing to get etch pre-installed
<LaserJock> do they do anything but security updates?
<ajmitch> rather than dist-upgrade a production box to etch
<LaserJock> ah
<ajmitch> I have no problem doing a dist-upgrade, obviously
<LaserJock> yeah, it would be good to get servers up to etch
<ajmitch> but it takes time
<LaserJock> I think my only Debian box will stay sarge
<LaserJock> I'd like to update it but I need to stay with a 2.4 kernel
* ajmitch is the same
<ajmitch> I don't know if my old speedtouch USB will work with the kernel drivers in 2.6, without some pain
<LaserJock> this is the first Debian release I've seen, it's interesting
<ajmitch> I might replace it with a decent adsl2+-capable modem though
<LaserJock> I'm stuck because of a proprietary driver for data acquisition
* ajmitch has seen a couple of debian releases
<effie_jayx> ajmitch,  I have the same modem... 
<effie_jayx> the blue sting ray... :S
<ajmitch> blue or green?
<effie_jayx> well more like cyan
<effie_jayx> :D
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> with something like rev 0 firmware
<effie_jayx> I didn't try it after hoary though... 
<effie_jayx> I gave up on it
<ajmitch> heh
<effie_jayx> bought a 
* ajmitch has it plugged into a sarge box at home, with a 2.4 kernel
<effie_jayx> starbridge my 
<effie_jayx> ajmitch,  :D way to go... :D
<ajmitch> with a script from cron that checks if ppp0 is down, if so, it reloads the usb kernel modules & reloads the modem firmware
<ajmitch> most reliable way of keeping the connection going
<bddebian> Damn, geser is a machine
<LaserJock> any core-devs about?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: depends
<LaserJock> I need a sponsor for a -proposed upload
<ajmitch> what is it?
<LaserJock> bug #75021
<LaserJock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/python-imaging/+bug/75021
<ajmitch> how much should I charge for uploads? 
<lupine_85> $$$ :)
<LaserJock> hmm, well there are other core-devs so you'd have competition
<ajmitch> I'm sure we could get together & agree on a standard rate :)
<ajmitch> nothing wrong with a bit of price-fixing :)
<LaserJock> bah, I'd have to get the TB to do some anti-trust work and break you up
<ajmitch> who said they wouldn't be in on it?
<LaserJock> well, maybe I'd have to go to the CC
<LaserJock> surely mako would help
<ajmitch> CC are all core devs at the moment
<chillywilly> tsk tsk
* ajmitch will consider taking a look at the debdiff later on this evening :)
<bddebian> Grrr
<chillywilly> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<joejaxx> how can i find out what is using /dev/loop0?
<joejaxx> it keeps saying resource busy
<joejaxx> man that is annoying
<fernando> fuser or lsof
<joejaxx> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38033/
<joejaxx> fernando: thanks for that information btw
<fernando> joejaxx: you're welcome
<bddebian> Has anyone else looked at fnfx?  I don't think the changes are relevant anymore
<Fujitsu_> What are said changes?
<bddebian> A build-dep on libtool, calling autoconf in rules and a couple of other such things
<bddebian> There was a patch for Hoary for acpi also but I'm not sure that's even relevant anymore
<Fujitsu_> If there is a new Debian version, I doubt that's necessary.
<joejaxx> sudo losetup -d /dev/loop0 
<joejaxx> ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: Device or resource busy
<joejaxx> rofl
<joejaxx> oh man
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: ping
<bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<bddebian> We had no binaries for diacanvas in Edgy nor do we have any in Feisty??
<Hobbsee> bddebian: it never built
<Fujitsu_> Yes, silly... I forget what it is.
* Fujitsu_ remembers being attacked by Hobbsee for that :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> It was .. Hmm now I can't remember either
<LaserJock> darn it, I'm trying to find a bug, but I can't find it :/
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what was the bug about?
<LaserJock> well, something about not being able to hibernate because of some swap/kernel problem
<LaserJock> which obviously gives me a bazillion results in LP
<joejaxx> were there any other specifics
<LaserJock> not really that I remember
<bddebian> Stupid freakin' diacanvas :-(
<Fujitsu_> Why, bddebian?
<bddebian> FTBFS
<Fujitsu_> Of course!
<Fujitsu_> Damn Gentoo server...
<Fujitsu_> Trying to install dspam. dspam wants MySQL 5... But that's going to break everything that uses MySQL... damnit.
<jikanter> whatis dsfg about pysvn?
<jikanter> is it subversion?
<LaserJock> jikanter: what is your question?
<jikanter> when a package is labeled with dsfg, that means that there is some sort of problem that may have to be resolved in the original tarball, is that correct?
<jikanter> As in remove some sort of non-free software component
<LaserJock> jikanter: yep
<jikanter> thanks
<LaserJock> does a swap partition usually show up with a df -a ?
<Fujitsu_> LaserJock: I don't believe so.
<Fujitsu_> Indeed, it doesn't.
<LaserJock> is there a way to tell if my system is actually using the swap partition
<Hobbsee> it seems not
<Hobbsee> free
<LaserJock> yeah, just thought of that
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> no swap for me
<LaserJock> = no hibernation
<Hobbsee> enable swap again then?
<Fujitsu_> swapon!
<LaserJock> well, that seems like a very temporary solution
<Lathiat> no, it doesnt
<Lathiat> cat /proc/swaps
<LaserJock> nothing
<Lathiat> then no swap :)
<Lathiat> swapon -a ?
<Lathiat> if a hibernate fails
<Lathiat> it screws your swap
<Lathiat> and you need to mkswap
<Lathiat> also means the UUID= will change
<Lathiat> so edgys UUID= for swap in /etc/fstab
<Lathiat> needs fixing
<LaserJock> well, why don't I just not use UUID?
<Lathiat> or that
<Lathiat> (UUID= changing is a result of having to mkswap
<LaserJock> well, I'm looking at bug #66637
<Lathiat> not hibernating
<Lathiat> a normal hibernate wont change the id of the swap
<Lathiat> or at least
<Lathiat> i assume it wont
<Lathiat> perhaps it does
* Lathiat pokes ubuntulog 
<Lathiat> err, ubugtu, which isnt there
<Lathiat> could be related yet
<Lathiat> yeh
<LaserJock> well, it seems that Scott says that bug is only for people who ran mkswap
<LaserJock> and I didn't
<Lathiat> right but if you had a hibernate fail
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure what my solution is supposed to be
<Lathiat> it eats the swap
<Lathiat> so it wont mount
<Lathiat> so you need to mkswap
<Lathiat> in which case, you'll hit that bug
<Lathiat> by fail i mean you hibernated
<Lathiat> but on next boot it didnt resume
<Lathiat> and booted normally
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't remember that happening but ok
<Lathiat> well
<Lathiat> put it this way
<Lathiat> can you swapon the partition
<Lathiat> if not, what does it say when you try?
<LaserJock> Invalid Argument
<LaserJock> more precisely: swapon: /dev/disk/by-uuid/f59bd815-d749-497d-aa92-fc2e2a2d572a: Invalid argument
<LaserJock> can I just switch fstab to the right partition and it'll work?
<ScottK> I've uploaded a revised package for pyspf for revu based on yesterday's comments.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3833 I believe it's ready for REVU when someone is available.  Thanks.
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: you around?
<imbrandon> Burgwork, pong
<imbrandon> ello all
<\sh> moins
<gpocentek> hello
<tsmithe> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<gpocentek> morning Daniel
<ajmitch> hi daniel
<dholbach> hey gpocentek - you changed your nick?
<dholbach> hey Andrew
<Fujitsu> dholbach, looks like he succumbed to peer pressure :(
<gpocentek> dholbach: yes, copying yours ;)
<dholbach> oh man :-)
* gpocentek wants to become a new Daniel Holbach :)
<siretart> dholbach!!!
<dholbach> I'm not sure if it's the best thing to take a leaf out of my book :)
<dholbach> heya siretart!
<siretart> :)
<siretart> dholbach: update about bzr-builddeb: Looks like I'm comaintaining the package now. Maintainer and upstream is James Westby, code looks clean, but needs python-debian synced from debian/experimental first.
<dholbach> oh NICE
<dholbach> siretart: you ROCK!
<siretart> looks very smooth up to now, there are some loose ends in the code, but those other commands aren't really thought to the end yet
<siretart> for everyday use, its usable
<dholbach> nice... that's really good news for everybody
<siretart> right. I think I'll blog about it as soon as everything is ready in feisty
<siretart> it already works on my feisty/amd64 workstation
<dholbach> Thanks a lot for that
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | IT'S THE REVU DAYS
<dholbach> HAPPY REVU DAY :)
<Fujitsu> Noooooooo.
* Fujitsu leaves hurriedly.
* dholbach hugs Fujitsu
<MehdiHassanpour> hi :)
* Fujitsu runs away more quickly still.
<Fujitsu> Hi MehdiHassanpour.
<MehdiHassanpour> ty for adding aspell-fa package to Feisty packages
<MehdiHassanpour> we've uploaded ttf-freefarsi to debian unstable
<MehdiHassanpour> will you add this package to Feisty repos too
<Fujitsu> It will be automatically imported if it is in unstable/main
<MehdiHassanpour> yes, it's in unstable
<dholbach> Fujitsu: the debian import freeze is coming up soon
<Fujitsu> dholbach, this is true.
<dholbach> so our archive admins *might* need some prodding
<MehdiHassanpour> how you'll be informed about the new packages in unstable ?
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<Fujitsu> HAPPY REVU DAY!
<Fujitsu> Nyahahaha
<dholbach> YEEEHAAAA
<dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: how does ttf-freefarsi look? is it better than the existing farsi fonts?
<MehdiHassanpour> looks good, and should be the only persian font very near to unicode
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu, dholbach 
<Hobbsee> oh no!  it cant be REVU day!
* Hobbsee quickly /quit's
<tepsipakki> so, it's (a) REVU/HUG/MERGE day(s) now :)
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: get reviewing :P
* Hobbsee will cheerlead
<dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: nice... should it be the default for ar and fa locales?
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<tepsipakki> actually, I'm thinking about making my first merge
<dholbach> tepsipakki: ROCK ON
<tepsipakki> It's about time
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach, and notes that she wont actually be doing any of the work as a cheerleader :P
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: yay!
<MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: dejavu is default now
<tepsipakki> bddebian: ping? I'd merge beneath-a-steel-sky :)
<dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: ah right
<MehdiHassanpour> we are working on dejavu too look better for persian too
<MehdiHassanpour> shots of ttf-freefont http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=124702
<MehdiHassanpour> sorry ttf-freefarsi
<dholbach> they look REAL good
<MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: do I need to inform you about packages we add in debian unstable ?
<MehdiHassanpour> aspell-hy will be added soon
<dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: if you like us to have a specific version and we're in a freeze, then sure, I'm happy to take orders on that :)
<MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: then how you'll be informed about new packges added in unstable ? 
<dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: it's hard to find out - i check debian-devel-changes@, but it's easy to miss things in the load of uploads there
<MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: MOTU team are doing great job :) thank you all 
<MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: how will packges come from Universe to Main ?
<dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: thanks a lot... and thanks for your work too
<dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<MehdiHassanpour> :-)
<tepsipakki> hmm, the change in beneath-a-s-s (!) is just a desktop file, which could be useful on debian too. Should I push it to debian first?
<neutrinomass> According to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nedit/, 5.5-2 is in Edgy, but I can only see 5.5-1 , which probably leads to bug 57808
<dholbach> tepsipakki: sure
<neutrinomass> What happened to 5.5-2 ?
<dholbach> 1:5.5-2ubuntu1 is in edgy
<dholbach> according to the page you mentioned
<neutrinomass> dholbach: It's not though!
<dholbach> look in the left second portlet
<dholbach> it's in DEPWAIT
<dholbach> so it hasn't built
<dholbach> only the source is there
<neutrinomass> dholbach: true - it's waiting for libmotif-dev, since july
<neutrinomass> why though? it apparently poses no requirements on the libmotif-dev version, and libmotif-dev exists .... 
<dholbach> it's in multiverse
<rob> hey, debuild -S is giving me "gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available" even though I just restored it from backup (this is a fresh-ish edgy install) and marked it ultimately trusted, is there anything else I need to do?
<dholbach> However the following packages replace it:
<dholbach>   lesstif2-dev
<dholbach> so rebuild nedit with lesstif2-dev
<dholbach> rob: do you have a gpg key on that machine?
<Hobbsee> rob: specify the key wiht -k
<Hobbsee> rob: and add it to your .bashrc, even better
<rob> dholbach: yes, both the public and private ones
<neutrinomass> dholbach: from the debian changelog : Replaced lesstif2 with libmotif-dev, because with ubuntus     new lesstif2 version nedit doesn't work
<dholbach> I use this in .bashrc (as Hobbsee said):
<dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
<dholbach> export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com'
<dholbach> neutrinomass: then you need to tell the buildd admins to move nedit to multiverse too
<dholbach> neutrinomass: universe stuff can't build-depend on multiverse stuff
<neutrinomass> dholbach: So I open a new bug and subscribe the archive to it ?
<dholbach> neutrinomass: archive-admin, yeah - I should think so
<rob> ah, yeah that worked, now to remember my passphrase :(
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ubuntu-archive?
<dholbach> neutrinomass: what Hobbsee said *poors himself another cup of tea*
<dholbach> . o O { lalala }
<neutrinomass> Hobbsee, dholbach: Ok, thanks. I'll subscribe stephan hermann as well who did the debian upload
<Hobbsee> hehe
<siretart> neutrinomass: he is \sh in this channel
<neutrinomass> siretart: I didn't remember if it was \sh or sh\ :p
<ajmitch> oh dear, my vmware window has no fonts again
<rob> ouch
<ajmitch> it's happened before
<ajmitch> part of the fun of running feisty
<rob> ah
<rob> which version of vmware?
<ajmitch> server
<ajmitch> so it's a 32-bit app on 64-bit ubuntu
<ajmitch> it gets its own copy of gtk+ & pango
<rob> I have player going here for a windows xp install for itunes
<rob> yay my hyperion package build successfully
<tepsipakki> bddebian: filed bugs upstream about survex and b-a-s-s, they could be sync-able after a while
* ajmitch spots an ia32-libs-gtk install a week or so ago, that could be it
<Yagisan> ajmitch, the feisty amd64 kernel boots for you ?
<ajmitch> depends, what problems are you having?
<Yagisan> ajmitch, I'm poking around to see why it fails to boot on me. seems hang, but responds to the 3 finger salute
<ajmitch> where does it hang?
<ajmitch> it does take ~6 minutes to drop me to a busybox shell so that I can start md & lvm manually
<Yagisan> ajmitch, shortly after "raid" setup, on the sata and usb drivers dialog
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> so you've got the same problem
<Yagisan> and I have sata raid and usb
<Yagisan> so, I'm running edgys kernel.
<ajmitch> which won't be fixed until udev runs mdadm, rather than the script being run before sata modules are loaded
* Yagisan is glad he is not alone
<ajmitch> you'll find that it will boot fine, if you have some patience & know what to run
<Yagisan> :/ well, I'd only lose home while waiting a long time for it to boot
<ajmitch> ah
* ajmitch has / on LVM on RAID
<ajmitch> so it's a bit more important
<Yagisan> ajmitch, I did re-install edgy to move root off raid
<ajmitch> why?
<siretart> ajmitch: I assume the race isn't fixed yet, as I didn't notice relevant uploads. right?
<ajmitch> I think so
<siretart> Yagisan: in a bugreport I read, that booting with 'break=mount' and pressing ctrl-d afterwards makes your system boot
<imbrandon> ugh
* imbrandon has his new system running *finaly* , well if you can call it running
<imbrandon> heya siretart ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hey siretart 
<ajmitch> & imbrandon :)
* siretart hugs ajmitch & imbrandon 
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> man this thing is a speed demon , now if i can just get ubuntu on it :(
<imbrandon> well speedy compared to what i was used too, even with half the ram
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> heh
<rob> is there any reason why pbuilder would make a package ok, but get to install-binary and install and fail on both?
<imbrandon> 3ghz dual core pentium d em64t, but only 512mb ram :(
<rob> s/package/run make
<ajmitch> rob: the package is broken :)
<rob> ajmitch: any suggestion?
<ajmitch> not without relevant errors
<rob> it was just set up with dh_make
<ajmitch> then that's the problem
<ajmitch> find out what is breaking in it
<rob> oh?
<Yagisan> ajmitch, the reinstall was because of degraded raid5 array, no replacement parts (no cash), and not enough online storage to backup, and I didn't see any docs on how to convert from degraded raid5 to raid1 without backing up all my data anyway
<ajmitch> dh_make gives a good suggestion, not a working package
<rob> ajmitch: all it is telling me is error 1, error 2 respectively
<ajmitch> rob: the error is further up
<imbrandon> ...
<dholbach> did anybody see dolson or somebody else from the ubuntustudio folks in the last time?
<dholbach> it'd be nice if they took care of seq24 merge and pushed the manpage and the desktop file upstream
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i thought i did that?  ages ago?
<dholbach> it's on the list
<fernando> moin all
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> it was a sync, too
<Hobbsee> hrm, perhaps not
<gpocentek> new libgoffice and gnumeric in debian, I think I know wht I'm going to do this afternoon...
<dholbach> gpocentek: you should ask the debian maintainer again if he wouldn't like to use your patch
<dholbach> gpocentek: it proves to work quite well for us
<gpocentek> dholbach: I'll mail him again, with the updated patches
<dholbach> ROCK :)
<gpocentek> :)
<gpocentek> and `echo "REVU REVU REVU" >> TODO` for tomorrow ;)
<Fujitsu> Argh, that evil gnumeric from experimental.
<Fujitsu> Evil, evil, evil.
<gpocentek> Fujitsu: that's strange, some people really like it better than the one we had in dapper
<Fujitsu> It also breaks things needing a proper goffice.
<gpocentek> right...
<Fujitsu> ie. not the unstable one not recommended for general use.
<Ornedan> G'day. Does anyone know who I have to yell at to get bug 68053 fixed? There even seems to be a possible fix (bug 68380), but no-one seems to be really interested in getting it to the repository
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68053 in azureus "Eclipse will not start (Edgy)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68053
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68380 in eclipse "[SRU]  eclipse for edgy-updates" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68380
<dholbach> Ornedan: yelling at people if completely out of order
<Ornedan> dholbach: I'll assume that s/if/is/. And yes, it is in order if there is obvious neglect, as in this case
<Fujitsu> No, it's not in order.
<Fujitsu> We're volunteers... Neglect isn't exactly possible.
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> if there's a fix that makes sense and has been proven to work, there'a s procedure for inclusion.
<Ornedan> Neglect is possible, even if you volunteer. By being a maintaner, you take up responsibilities. Which you can then neglect
<Hobbsee> eclipse doesnt appear to build with later versions of java, either
<dholbach> We work on packages as teams and some things are more important than others. There's no dedicated maintainer for some packages.
<Hobbsee> Ornedan: there arent maintainers in universe for ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Precisely, dholbach.
<Fujitsu> s/some packages/most packages/, even.
<dholbach> We have 20000+ packages and ~100 people working on them (in varying degrees).
<Fujitsu> And 20000 open bugs :'(
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ points out the procedure for getting fixes included in the distro.
<Hobbsee> !info eclipse feisty
<ubotu> eclipse: Extensible Tool Platform and Java IDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.1-2ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 121 kB, installed size 412 kB
<Hobbsee> !info eclipse edgy
<ubotu> eclipse: Extensible Tool Platform and Java IDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.1-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 121 kB, installed size 412 kB
<Ornedan> Anyway, in this case, the broken packages got released about the same time as Edgy came out of testing. In other words, w/o getting tested
<Hobbsee> oh nice, someone merged it for feisty
<Hobbsee> Ornedan: feel free to test stuff before release
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, that's an odd definition of nice.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: didnt you see how much of a bitch that was to merge, on MOM?
<Ornedan> Hobbsee: I would have. Except there were no packages to test before release
<Hobbsee> and ther'es no other way to put that - it was horrible
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I would have honestly preferred that Eclipse were stamped out :P
<Hobbsee> Ornedan: i believe it built long before freeze
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: me too
<dholbach> Ornedan: Everybody's happy if you get involved and do testing of patches and stuff like that... it's just that I object to yelling at people who do voluntary work and I predict you that it's not going to help.
<Ornedan> Hobbsee: Could be. However, I was using the edgy testing repos for a few months and didn't get the eclipse packages until around the release date (+-2 days, can't remember exactly)
<Hobbsee> Ornedan: it appears that there are binaries for eclipse on feisty.  i'd suggest testing them in a while, to make sure they work as expected
<Fujitsu> Ornedan, -4 days, actually.
<Ornedan> 'k
<dholbach> I know that vil and doko work on eclipse and java. But they're both very busy, so they'll appreciate if you decide to work with them
<Hobbsee> well, there you go
* Fujitsu heads off to bed.
<Ornedan> Anyway, what's also nasty about tossing up the broken packages is that the old and functional packages got taken down at the same time. So no rollback option for anyone affected
<Ornedan> It would be sort of nice not to leave people hanging in limbo for two months :(
<Hobbsee> dholbach: got anythign in particular you want merged?
<Fujitsu> It would be nice to have testing pre-release, as well.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: no, I'm quite happy with my list - I did most of seb's and my merges
<Hobbsee> holy crap!!!
<Hobbsee> http://merges.ubuntu.com/f/flight-of-the-amazon-queen/
<Hobbsee> [   ]  flight-of-the-amazon-queen_1.0.0.orig.tar.gz      02-Jun-2006 16:08   35M  
<ajmitch> that's small
<Fujitsu> Heheh, wesnoth is better.
<ajmitch> [   ]  vegastrike-data_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz 13-Apr-2005 19:28  152M 
<Fujitsu> Not bad.
<Hobbsee> eek
<ajmitch> all of the above are games
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<Fujitsu> No sane application would be big.
<ajmitch> flight of the amazon queen should be a trivial merge, it's only a .desktop file
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> but i'm not downloading that base tarball
<Fujitsu> Is it a new upstream version?
<Hobbsee> no
<Fujitsu> So merge it, then fake the .dsc and .changes. Simple.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i was thinking about that
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Do flight-of-amazon-queen on liquified, since the local mirror will have the orig
<Hobbsee> StevenK: good point
<StevenK> It might require taking liberties with grab-merge.sh, though
<Hobbsee> yeah
<cypher1_> i had filed couple of bugs yesterday for merges.. is anyone reviewing it ?
<Hobbsee> cypher1_: bug #'s?
<Hobbsee> and did you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<cypher1_> Hobbsee: one is 76479
<cypher1_> Hobbsee: yes i had subscribed
<cypher1_> let me find the other one :)
<cypher1_> Hobbsee: second is 76483
<Hobbsee> bug 76479 bug 76483
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76479 in doc++ "Merge doc++ 3.4.10-3.4 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76479
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76483 in ipac-ng "Merge ipac-ng 1.31-3 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76483
<Hobbsee> mmm ok
* Hobbsee requests mroe syncs
<cypher1_> Hobbsee: since i am new to this, i am expecting some review comments which i can work on asap before the deadline :)
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Hobbsee> the actual merging doenst end until feature freeze does it?
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: main merges end tomorrow i believe
<cypher1_> Hobbsee: oh then its fine :)
<Hobbsee> ah
<gnomefreak> but universe ends at feature freeze IRRC
<cypher1_> gnomefreak: when is that ?
<gnomefreak> IIRC
<gnomefreak> cypher1_: not looking at release schedule atm i would think jan. maybe
<jikanter> What does SRU stand for?
<cypher1_> gnomefreak: ok thanks
<StevenK> jikanter: Stable Release Update
<jikanter> cool, thanks
<gnomefreak> cypher1_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule?highlight=%28feisty%29  looks like its feb. 8th
<Ornedan> Any saner way of acquiring the Feisty Eclipse packages than doing "cat sources.list | sed -e s/edgy/feisty/g | tee sources.list" and then running a package manager?
<cypher1_> gnomefreak: but it says debianimportfreeze on dec 21
<gnomefreak> yeah i know and thats when main merges are over
<gnomefreak> cypher1_: most of us got emails on it :)
<cypher1_> gnomefreak: so dec 21 does not mean universe merge ?
<gnomefreak> no
<gnomefreak> thats main merges have to be done 
<\sh> anduniverse merges are have to be done as well
<\sh> it has to be: and universe merges have to be done as well on 21dec
<gnomefreak> \sh: thought it was feature freeze as always?
<\sh> nope because of etch freezing...after 21st dec debian is uploading all the other crack
<Hobbsee> \sh: that's just when the autosync stops, isnt it?  
<\sh> jepp...
<Hobbsee> \sh: we can still request manual syncs, and do merging
<Adri2000> Seveas: feisty-changes rss feed dead?
<Seveas> Adri2000, no, but maybe your dns is failing
<Seveas> media.ubuntu-nl.org changed host
<Adri2000> Seveas: no, that's not the problem, I can download the file without problem but according to it the last upload was 24 hours ago
<Seveas> Adri2000, then you're downloading it from the old host
<Seveas> media.ubuntu-nl.org should point to 81.171.100.21
<Adri2000> Resolving media.ubuntu-nl.org... 87.250.139.98
<Adri2000> okay :-)
<Seveas> ah crap
<Seveas> mitsuhiko failed to update dns records
<Seveas> the .....
<Adri2000> eh :p
<Seveas> I am NOT amused
<Adri2000> oops :] 
<chantra> freeflying_: are you here
<freeflying_> chantra: hi
<chantra> hi freeflying_ are you packaging mms then?
<chantra> was going to, but I saw your reply
<freeflying_> chantra: just begain  :)
<chantra> seems to be a real cool piece of software
<freeflying_> chantra: yep
<chantra> okie dokie, so I'm not going to :)
<chantra> btw, how comes freevo has never been packaged?
<freeflying_> chantra: some guy have worked on it in debian
<chantra> can't see it though
<freeflying_> chantra: I found someone has sent out ITP
<chantra> what's ITP alreday
<Amaranth> ITP = Intent To Package
<chantra> okie
<chantra> http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20061116.170903.4d9f87ee.en.html
<chantra> more than a month ago though
<Amaranth> in debian someone files an ITP bug so people know they're working on it then close the bug when they upload the package
<chantra> btw, there is a bug which hasn't been looked though and still happen
<chantra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-defaults/+bug/74956
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74956 in python-defaults "[Feisty]  Can't import python module" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<chantra> can you guys launch (in feisty) gnome-btdownload for instance
<sistpoty|uni> hi folks
<jikanter> hello
<bddebian> Heya gang
<gpocentek> hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya gpocentek
<sistpoty|uni> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|uni
<sistpoty|uni> hi gpocentek as well ;)
<gpocentek> hello sistpoty|uni :)
<siretart> slomo: what do you think about http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/articles/2006/12/20/lets-hear-the-communitys-voice-the-faad-2-5-licensing-issue?
<siretart> hey sistpoty|uni & bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi siretart
<sistpoty|uni> hi siretart 
<siretart> slomo: practically, this could mean that we have to remove all faad code from ubuntu because of licencing problems
<bddebian> w00t
<slomo> siretart: our version does not have this license problems
<slomo> siretart: this was exactly the reason why we have this cvs snapshot, it's the last real GPL version of it
<slomo> siretart: debian has 2.5 and i already filed a serious bug on it (because debian/copyright says plain GPL)
<siretart> slomo: okay. thanks for clarification
<slomo_> siretart: our version does not have this license problems
<slomo_> siretart: this was exactly the reason why we have this cvs snapshot, it's the last real GPL version of it
<slomo_> siretart: debian has 2.5 and i already filed a serious bug on it (because debian/copyright says plain GPL)
<slomo_> siretart: and i also contacted ahead and the developer in the past with no answer
<siretart> slomo: okay. thanks for clarification
<siretart> (I got your first lines, btw ;)
<slomo_> ok, sorry for repeating then :)
<siretart> btw, xine-lib 1.1.3 package restructured is ready for me
<siretart> brb
<cypher1_> if i assume all the outstanding merge bugs raised will be reviewed and uploaded by tomorow, will i be correct ?
<bddebian> cypher1_: One can never assume anything :)
<cypher1_> bddebian: sorry i am too confused with the tomorrow's deadline..if the merges are not uploaded by tomorrow does that mean feisty herd 2 or feisty will not have the merge ?
<gpocentek> hum, does this mean something to someone: "Error: Package: and Architecture: do not alternate in debian/control" ?
<gpocentek> (http://librarian.launchpad.net/5490699/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.sim_0.9.4.1%7E2-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz)
<tepsipakki> I have checkinstall merge ready
<tepsipakki> stevenk seems to be asleep
<bddebian> cypher1: We are all confused :)
<tepsipakki> bddebian: hi, I was looking at merging beneath-a-steel-sky a while ago. seems straightforward to do, only the .desktop-file remains as diff
<tepsipakki> and filed a bug on debian
<tepsipakki> with a link to the patch
<herzi> dholbach: ping
<tepsipakki> same for survex
<dholbach> herzi: pong
<herzi> dholbach: i just wanted to bug you about the library... :-)
<dholbach> that's nice of you :)
<SlimG> does anyone have a link to a good "howto create a man page" tutorial
<bddebian> apt-get install help2man ;-)
<bddebian> tepsipakki: Sounds good, thanks
<SlimG> bddebian: thought you were joking, but I see there's actually a help2man :) hehe
<SlimG> bddebian: thanx!
<tepsipakki> bddebian: perhaps they could be merged now and synced later when debian adds the .desktop-files
<tepsipakki> bddebian: I'll do that now
<tepsipakki> http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/ubuntu/checkinstall_1.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
<tepsipakki> there, any sponsors available?-)
<tepsipakki> source.changes in the same directory
<ScottK> I've just made another upload of pyspf http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3833 that corrects all the lintian errors.  There are warnings that remain.  I'd appreciate advice on if they are sigificant or how to fix them.
<Adri2000> tepsipakki: the .changes is not needed, since the sponsor will recreate it with his own gpg key (authorized to upload), and if you were motu (authorized to upload with your gpg key), it would dangerous because every one could upload the package with the signed .changes
<Adri2000> s/would dangerous/would be dangerous/
<tepsipakki> is that URL enough now, or should I file bugs etc?
<Adri2000> tepsipakki: it's enough if a motu wants to upload it now
<tepsipakki> ok
<tepsipakki> http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/ubuntu/beneath-a-steel-sky_0.0372-3ubuntu1.dsc
<tepsipakki> http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/ubuntu/survex_1.0.39-1ubuntu1.dsc
<tepsipakki> b-a-s-s is without the orig.tar.gz since it is too big..
<tepsipakki> I have to run, but if there are problems with those, let me know ->
<Adri2000> tepsipakki: for merges I usually provide only a debdiff between the last debian version and the merged version, I don't know what motu prefer
<Adri2000> ScottK: the package was in debian ?
<bddebian> tepsipakki: I'm checking checkinstall now
<tepsipakki> I'll add debdiff's to the same dir now
<Adri2000> ScottK: ok, it's just a new upstream release
<Adri2000> ScottK: "* the version should be 2.0.1-0ubuntu1 "
<tepsipakki> bddebian: hrm, there are some po-changes in checkinstall
<tepsipakki> I don't know how to handle them
<tepsipakki> but debdiffs in place, seeya ->
<ScottK> OK.  I'll put the version back to 2.0.1-0ubuntu1.
<ScottK> Any other suggestions?
<Adri2000> yes
<Adri2000> "* Non-maintainer update - NMU" < NMU is only for debian
<ScottK> OK.  I'll take that out too.
<Adri2000> ScottK: so you can remove this line, and don't care of the lintian warning
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Adri2000> python, python-dev, python-all-dev < I believe you have to choose between one of these depencies
<Adri2000> dependencies*
<ScottK> OK.
<Adri2000> huhu... "between one of these dependencies" means nothing, but you have understood :p
<Adri2000> I would say the right one is python-all-dev
<ScottK> Thanks.  I just looked and you are right.  python-all-dev had both python and python-dev in it.
<ScottK> I've got those changes made.
<neutrinomass> can somebody please take a look at bug 70367 ? It includes a patch for gdk-imlib that fixes bugs in other programs as well 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70367 in imlib "imlib1 does not correctly handle 32-bit visuals" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70367
<ScottK> Anything else?
<ScottK> If not, I'll build it again and upload it...
<Adri2000> you can :)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<dholbach> so how's the REVU day looking up until now?
<bddebian> dholbach: You tell us.. ;-P
<dholbach> well, *I*'d like to know :-)
<bddebian> I've been trying but failing miserably as usual :)
<bddebian> Gah, I hate this debdiff crap for merges.  Do any of you actually use these?
<ScottK> Adri2000 - Thanks again.  The revised (again) pyspf is uploaded - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3837 - I'd appreciate another look when you have a moment.
<Adri2000> ScottK: hmm your changelog has a problem, a blank line is missing before the name and date line, did you manage to build the package with such a changelog ?
<ScottK> I did.
<ScottK> I'll go fix that.
<ScottK> Sorry for the trivial disturbance.
<ScottK> Be back in a few...
<Adri2000> ScottK: and after that you need to find a motu to comment on revu ;)
<dholbach> bddebian: no, not a policy, although I think that everybody's happier if we don't have to merge them every time
<ScottK> Thanks again for the help.
<bddebian> dholbach: I mean like: Bug #47361
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47361 in grpn "grpn ships no .desktop" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47361
<bddebian> Reject them?  Push upstream, what?
<dholbach> it's the same as with every other fix
<bddebian> How so?
<rmjb> Hello all
<bddebian> Hello rmjb
<rmjb> so far I've been doing merges where I iron out diffs in files in the debian directory
<rmjb> but there are other kinds that I pass over
<rmjb> one is this: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/afbinit/REPORT
<rmjb> do I just test that the package builds and request a merge?
<rmjb> hey bddebian
<bddebian> rmjb: I would say not.  There may be code changes that you drop that the package will still build but will be "wrong"
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<LaserJock> has REVU day started?
<rmjb> so I need to.. look at the old ubuntu package, the new debian package and the patch file mentioned in the report before I make a decision?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Was it today or tomorrow?
<bddebian> rmjb: Yes
<Adri2000> LaserJock: dayS, yes :)
<rmjb> another question, the merge deadline that's today, that's for uni/muliverse also?
<LaserJock> ok, I had a suggestion
<LaserJock> we need to track how many packages we actually upload during the REVU days
<LaserJock> so what if the MOTUs emailed the list after the uploaded a package?
<ScottK> pysfp is updated - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3838 - I believe it is ready for a MOTU REVU...
<ScottK> pysfp/pyspf
<sistpoty|uni> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: hi
<rmjb> what I'm asking is... should I rush to do merges now since the deadline is in about 6 hours, or should I work on my packages for REVU?
<rmjb> ... or do my christmas cleaning :(
<LaserJock> the deadline for merges doesn't apply for Universe
<LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: what do you think about my idea?
<rmjb> LaserJock: thanks
<Burgwork> imbrandon: we seem to be missing each other. Around right now?
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: have been thinking about that as well...
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: sounds good :)
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: maybe we could make a merge sprint somewhen after revu days :)
<LaserJock> well, it's the only thing I could thing of at the time, it would really tough to go through the NEW queue and figure it out afterwards
<LaserJock> *would be
<Adri2000> anyone to upload a small merge?
<LaserJock> I'm going to track REVU updates and comments via email
<LaserJock> but the important stat is actual uploads
<sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: cool, thx!
<sistpoty|uni> bddebian: please review all packages :P
<bddebian> Sure, have that done in an hour or so ;-P
<sistpoty|uni> hehe
<Adri2000> merge upload...? no one?
<sistpoty|uni> sorry /me can't upload from university
<bddebian> Adri2000: Where?
<Adri2000> bddebian: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/debian-reference_1.09-4ubuntu1.debdiff debdiff from 1.09-4 and I'm building the package right now
<Adri2000> bddebian: I hope you haven't upload it yet, FTBFS :)
<Adri2000> uploaded
<bddebian> Haven't even looked at it yet :)
<cypherbios> Please, I need someone to take an look at my simple package... If someone can leave some comment, I'll be grateful -http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3748-
<cypherbios> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3748 :)
<palski> Could somebody take a look at bug #65274, gnome-hearts should be re-merged from debian, without it gnome-hearts is completely useless
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65274 in gnome-hearts "Hearts crashes on startup" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65274
<bddebian> OK damnit, so what's the priority today, Merges, Bugs, or REVU?  And don't say All Of The Above ;-P
<rmjb> bddebian: that was my question :)
* cypherbios would say REVU :D
<Adri2000> bddebian: heh... debian-reference needs a new B-D, and this B-D FailedTBFS...
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/274657
<Adri2000> hmm, seems to be a buildd issue
<Adri2000> any opinion?
<Adri2000> "Build killed with signal 15 after 150 minutes of inactivity"
<No1Viking> I want to update BIOS in my computer and need to make a startdisk for it. How do I do that?
<Q-FUNK> would anyone happen to know the right gconftools-2 stanza to change the global GTK2 default theme?
<bddebian> Adri2000: No clue here, sorry
* sistpoty|uni heads home
<sistpoty|uni> cya later
<Burgwork> CUPs development is lead by fucking monkeys
* Burgwork is angry
<Burgwork> http://www.cups.org/str.php?L1869
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I have no idea what that means
<Burgwork> basically, the cups developer is telling a user that they are not going to make CUPS print buggy documents
<Burgwork> a "bend over and take it" statement
<bddebian> hehe
<Burgwork> and this just bit one of our larger customers and now I get to tell them that "sorry, there is nothing we can do"
<imbrandon> Burgwork, pong
<imbrandon> heh
<Burgwork> imbrandon: can I play with your ebox setup?
<imbrandon> ahh yea , lemme turn back on the vm, one sec
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> one minute
<rmjb> I've created 3 .install files in my debian directory, one for the binary and 2 for the library (1 is a -dev)
<rmjb> I
<rmjb> I'm using cdbs, but it complains:
<rmjb> dh_install -peasypmp  
<rmjb> cp: cannot stat `./usr/bin': No such file or directory
<rmjb> do I have to indicate it's using debian/tmp?
<LaserJock> are you sure it's trying to install it to the right place?
<LaserJock> like does DESTDIR need to be set or something
<rmjb> well... I had the source pkg build one binary pkg and dholbach advised I split it out, so i've been referenceing the old binary package when writing my .install files
<rmjb> I don't know about DESTDIR
<rmjb> okay from the build log it seems to be building in debian/tmp, from what i've been reading if debian/compat is 5 it should build in debian/<package> ?
<LaserJock> rmjb: it built find before the split?
<rmjb> it seems so the error happens at the very end
<rmjb> and yes, before I created the .install files and added new sections to debian/control it built fine
<LaserJock> rmjb: so before you split the packages there was no problem
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> and what about debian/dirs
<LaserJock> is that all good? I suppose so
<tepsipakki> bddebian: thanks for uploading b-a-s-s and checkinstall :)
<rmjb> not there
<bddebian> tepsipakki: NP
<rmjb> ls debian/
<rmjb> changelog  control    easypmp.install     libpmp.install
<rmjb> compat     copyright  libpmp-dev.install  rules
<LaserJock> rmjb: have you looked at another CDBS package that is split, perhaps a KDE package
<rmjb> anyone know of one? I'd be happy to
<LaserJock> I don't know CDBS well enough to know how it handles multiple binaries
* kallewoof greets & smiles. Any MOTU:s with some time on their hands who're fascinated by the following URL? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3784
<rmjb> imbrandon: know of any multi-binary source packages that use cdbs?
<Lure> rmjb: kde-guidance
<Lure> rmjb: kde-guidance-powermanager was additional binary package added for edgy
<rmjb> thanks LaserJock, will take a look and learn
<Lure> rmjb: it is python, so it might not be best example
<rmjb> I mean Lure :P
<imbrandon> rmjb, amarok does ( dunno if thtas a good example )
<bddebian> amarok is a pig :)
<imbrandon> hehe
* imbrandon hugs amarok
<kallewoof> Noone up for reviewing? *headscratch* I hate bugging people like this, but oh well. I'll ask again tomorrow. :P
<bddebian> kallewoof: We're trying
<kallewoof> bddebian: I fully understand, and in no way insinuate that you're doing a poor job at it. I just hate bugging people. It's a weakness, one might say. :)
<bddebian> kallewoof: No, it's OK, we should be doing better at keeping up with REVU :-(
<rmjb> is there a way to build a package in a more interactive manner than to just hand the dsc over to pbuilder? I'm thinking this may help in a LOT of situations
<LaserJock> rmjb: well, you can make a temp copy and run each rule in debian/rules manually
<LaserJock> but you need the build deps so you might want to do it in a chroot or something
<imbrandon> yea chroot + normal debuild , would be thew most interactive
<imbrandon> s/thew/the/
<kallewoof> bddebian: If I had any idea what I'm doing, I might try to join and help out. :) Perhaps once I do I'll look into it.
<imbrandon> cory, i cant seem to get a ebox login past the firewall, i'm gonna have go IM one of the guys in implmentations to poke me a hole in the corp firewall
<imbrandon> Burgwork, ^^
<imbrandon> give me just a few
<Burgwork> imbrandon: sounds good
<plugwash> isn't the normal/easy way to build a package to use dpkg-source to extract it and then change to the extracted dir and run dpkg-buildpackage?
<plugwash> i thought pbuilder was primerally for making a final test that you haven't missed any deps before handing it to the autobuilders
<LaserJock> plugwash: I never build with dpkg-buildpackage
<LaserJock> it tends to leave build cruft in your source tree and you have to have the build deps
<LaserJock> I use pbuilder for every build
<LaserJock> but maybe that's just me
<imbrandon> plugwash, not really that measn you have to install alot of build deps
<imbrandon> LaserJock, as do i
* bddebian uses dpkg-buildpackage all the time
<LaserJock> naughty boy
<LaserJock> ;-)
<bddebian> :)
<plugwash> isn't pbuilder quite a slow method of building?
<LaserJock> plugwash: not really if you have a decent machine
<LaserJock> on a good machine it takes 5-10 sec. to unpack the tarball
<rmjb> to test small changes to a package pbuilder is a little inconvinient
<bddebian> plugwash: It is if you keep having to test small changes.  pbuild fail, make change, build, pbuild, rinse, repeat ;-P
<rmjb> especially ones that have to install over 10 build-deps every time
<LaserJock> then installing the build deps takes a bit, but it does have an apt cahce
<imbrandon> to install 1000 build deps for a package i will never build again for 3 months is also rmjb 
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> well, I do it all the time
<LaserJock> but that's me I guess
<LaserJock> maybe that's why I'm so slow :-)
<rmjb> pbuilder is how I've been doing it till now... but I want something more flexable
<imbrandon> chroot 
<LaserJock> sbuild+LVM snapshot is supposed to be the best
<imbrandon> and full debuild
<rmjb> the dpkg-buildpackage looks promising, and chroot
<imbrandon> s/dpkg-buildpackage/debuild/ :)
<plugwash> imbrandon well yeah i guess pbuilder could make more sense for motu type work rather than primary package maintaince work
<LaserJock> I don't like having to keep up with a chroot
<LaserJock> I just use pbuilder to keep things clean
<LaserJock> it's so easy to set up and maintain
<LaserJock> saves space
<LaserJock> etc.
<jdong> what's the difference between using debuild and dpkg-buildpackage?
<jdong> the net result looks pretty identical to my untrained eyes ;-)
<LaserJock> debuild is just a wrapper
<imbrandon> result is the same, just longer to get there 
<LaserJock> it *is* dpkg-buildpackage
<bddebian> They are pretty much the same
<LaserJock> it's just dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<imbrandon> right ,less typing
<LaserJock> and I think it adds lintian and/or signing
<imbrandon> signing
<imbrandon> unless -us -uc
<LaserJock> I don't use dpkg-buildpackage either (debuild -S FTW) :-)
<imbrandon> :)
* bddebian always uses -us -nc :)
<imbrandon> debuild -S -sd or debuild -S or debuild -S -sa
<imbrandon> depending on what i'm doing
<rmjb> debuild does not work well with gpg agents
<rmjb> I rather plain dpkg-buildpackage
<imbrandon> rmjb, works fine with gpg-agent
<imbrandon> i use it almost daily
<LaserJock> I've never had a problem with it either
* rmjb is confused
<rmjb> when I use dpkg-bu... I get a nice seahorse window for my passphrase and it caches it for 5 mins
<rmjb> handy for the 2nd signing
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't use a gpg-agent so I guess that's why I dont' have a problem with it :-)
<rmjb> when I use debuild it fails after asking for my passphrase... I always have to remove the use-agent line from gpg.conf
<imbrandon> rmjb, i would file a bug, it should work perfectly
<imbrandon> infact its the same thing
<imbrandon> debuild just fills in some flags so you dont have to type them every time
<rmjb> I was told it was a known bug... I think jdong was telling me it's because dpkg-bui... runs as me and can connect to my agent but debuild runs as root...
<rmjb> or something along those lines
<imbrandon> i dont run debuild as root, but then again i dont sudo apt-get source .... like alot of people sooo
<LaserJock> bah
<rmjb> I just apt-get source too... no sudo
* plugwash just runs as root
<imbrandon> your messing with a strange animal then if something is runnign as root, nothing i run in the build process is run as root
<imbrandon> ( except inside the pbuilder )
<bddebian> Damn, I lost my sessions.  Can someone compare versions 1.0.39ubuntu1 and 1.0.39-1ubuntu1 for me quick?
<plugwash> imbrandon afaict root in a chroot is still root and pbuilder is just a chroot wrapper
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.39ubuntu1 gt 1.0.39-1ubuntu1 && echo yes
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> bddebian, ^^
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$
<imbrandon> plugwash, i know
<bddebian> Damn I was afraid of that, thanks imbrandon
<imbrandon> i mean uptill that point
<imbrandon> anyhow brb
<jdong> rmjb: it's because debuild runs debsign/gpg as fakeroot
<rmjb> ri-ight... that's what you said
<jdong> and thus gpg can't authenticate to the agent running as your user
<LaserJock> jdong: do you know if a bug is filed in Debian for that?
<jdong> LaserJock: I filed one in GNATS upstream
<jdong> for gnupg
<jdong> it's been fixed in the latest gnupg releases
<jdong> which is the version in Feisty
<LaserJock> oh, it's a gnupg issue
<jdong> right
<jdong> a LOG_WARNING was a LOG_ERROR
<jdong> which caused a non-zero retcode
<LaserJock> ah
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<rmjb> g'morning ajmitch
<keescook> imbrandon: what's the origin of your system's "voyager" name?
<LaserJock> keescook: he's a Trekie ;-)
<jdong> keescook: star trek, I'd expect
<jdong> my neighbor has all trek names for his computers and users
<bddebian> Or maybe a NASA freak :)
<jdong> and ESSID's
<jdong> it's freakin annoying trying to use his computers ;-)
<keescook> I was figuring either Trek or NASA; both are cool.
<keescook> I'm such a Voyager geek; I've actually got a voyager graphic novel on my livingroom table ATM.  :P
<jdong> :)
<jdong> and wow, look at that, x264 in 64-bit actually does encode a tad faster than 32-bit :D
<jdong> that's a first ;-)
<siretart> heyho, jdong and keescook 
<jdong> greetings, siretart
<keescook> hiya siretart
<siretart> keescook: say, are you stand-in for pitti regarding promotions for main?
<jdong> why do I feel a -security vs -backports thing coming on?
<jdong> lol
<keescook> siretart: I haven't officially done any MIRs yet, but I'd be happy to look stuff over
<chantra> hi guys
<chantra> how should I asked to a newer upstream release to be integrated to feisty
<chantra> the actual debian unstable been lower
<chantra> I've repack the newer version and I've the debdiff ready
<LaserJock> package it and get a MOTU to sponsor the upload
<chantra> cheers LaserJock 
<chantra> gonna do this staight away
<chantra> and how could I make it integrated back into debian unstable?
<chantra> shall I just send an email to the maintenar?
<siretart> chantra: are you willing to take over responsibility for the package in debian?
<chantra> siretart: not really, don't have a running debian at the moment
<chantra> but I'm willing to ease debian maintener job though :)
<siretart> chantra: then the first step is finding someone who is willing to do
<LaserJock> chantra: I'd just send a patch to the maintainer
<chantra> LaserJock: doesn't debdiff behave as a patch?
<LaserJock> yeah, although with new upstream releases a debdiff isn't as nice as a patch to debian/
<chantra> okie dokie, gonna patch it
<siretart> keescook: if you have some spare time, it would be great if you could have a short look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionFFmpeg and tell me if I've forgotten something obvious or important
<siretart> so that we don't loose more time than necessary
<keescook> siretart: sure, I'll take a look
<siretart> thanks!
<cypher1> ogra, hi are you there ?
<LaserJock> he's in a meeting at the moment
<cypher1> LaserJock, ok thanks.. any idea when he will be expected back
<keescook> siretart: I don't see any technical problems with the MIR; I'd echo jdong's worries though.  I suspect ffmpeg's MIR will rest more on legal than technical grounds.  :(
<LaserJock> well, he's sort of around if it's urgent
<LaserJock> but I think he has another meeting after the current one
<LaserJock> so perhaps email might be better
<jdong> yeah, I really really really wish that ffmpeg in its current state can be default on Ubuntu :)
<jdong> but looking around at the other North American distros
<cypher1> LaserJock, no problem i can check with him later so i will mail or wait for him to free.. thank you :)
<jdong> our current policy is already very very generous to patented technology
<ScottK> I'm new here.  Is the standard approach to request REVU once and then wait (assuming people read the scrollback) or to ask periodically (what's considered rude)?
<siretart> keescook: well, it blocks xine-lib
<keescook> siretart: yeah, I totally understand.
<siretart> keescook: who can I poke about the legal stuff?
<siretart> obviously not the TB :/
<keescook> I'm actually not sure; I'd ask pitti first
<LaserJock> siretart: debian-legal
<LaserJock> ;-)
<keescook> heh
<siretart> LaserJock: it is good enough for debian/main, so why not for ubuntu/main?
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, dont poke too often. but if nobody responds for some time I suppose it's ok
* bddebian pokes LaserJock
<ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3838
<LaserJock> I think I need to write another email about REVU Day
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, you're a python wiz now, fix diacanavas2 for me will ya? :)
<LaserJock> umm, let me think ...... no
<bddebian> :'-(
<bddebian> I get no love anymoer
<bddebian> anymore even..
* siretart hugs bddebian 
<siretart> :)
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: sorry dude, this is the last day I have to get research done and get ready for Christmas vacation
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
* siretart waves to sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi bddebian: 
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<sistpoty> where's the q&a-session to take place? #ubuntu-classroom or #ubuntu-motu-school?
<sistpoty> -classroom, ah...
<sistpoty> everyone who'd also like to help out with the q&a-session please join #ubuntu-classroom, thanks.
<bddebian> What's the q&a session about?
<sistpoty> bddebian: people ask questions, we give answers ;)
<bddebian> Gahh..  What kind of questions
<sistpoty> I don't know... *g*
<sistpoty> I guess packaging related
<jdong> like, when will my backports be processed?
<jdong> ;-)
* jdong ducks
<sistpoty> hehe
<siretart> like 'when will my package finally be revu'ed'?
<siretart> :)
<bddebian> heh
<jdong> yeah
<jdong> when will binary NEW be cleared?
<jdong> when will Azureus be fixed?
<sistpoty> please ask on -classroom... :P
<jdong> *cough* Fujitsu *cough*
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe I should ask if anyone besides sistpoty is going to look at libparagui? ;-P
<sistpoty> hehe
<bddebian> Gah, didn't someone already do coolmail?
<sistpoty> dholbach did to motu-ml
* ajmitch looks around
<LaserJock> anybody get my second email to -motu?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: about what?
<ajmitch> handling revu day requests?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I assume that's a yes
<sebest> hello, i'm looking for someone to review my package, it's missing one vote
* ajmitch won't do much reviewing in the next 3 days
<sebest> it's innotop (a great tool to monitor mysql server from cli) , if someone is interested: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3834
<ajmitch> sounds useful
* ajmitch was having *great* fun with innodb tables & mysql yesterday
<bhale> ugh
<ajmitch> hello bhale 
<bhale> hey there
<sebest> ajmitch: http://xaprb.com/blog/2006/07/02/innotop-mysql-innodb-monitor/ ;)
<sistpoty> hi bhale
* ajmitch should see if the package builds & runs on sarge :)
<Adri2000> LaserJock: what's the url of the webpages with a lot of infos on the packages? I don't remember...
<Adri2000> ah should be http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/
* lucas was highlighted
<geser> Adri2000: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/universe.html
<Adri2000> ah yeah, who wrote this tool?
<geser> and http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/multiverse.html
<LaserJock> Adri2000: lucas wrote multidistrotools, which we've patched slightly
<LaserJock> Adri2000: and I wrote some stuff to put it all together, etc.
<Adri2000> ok
<lucas> LaserJock: there's a pkg-multidistrotools project on alioth
<lucas> please join if you are interested in working on this stuff
<LaserJock> ah, cool
<LaserJock> Fujitsu patched it to show difference between outdated and outdated with local changes
<lucas> ah nice
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ping
<sistpoty> ajmitch: btw.: I do have some ideas about how the motu council to make new motus
<sistpoty> ajmitch: s.th. like small tasks for the applicant, like review a package or answer a few simple packaging related questions... nothing to tough so
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yessir?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you happen to upload that SRU for me?
<ajmitch> no, I didn't
<sistpoty> ajmitch: which could then form an opinion about technical skills... and then there would be community skills, pretty much determined by what's there in the spec already
<ajmitch> I happened to have some apt-proxy weirdness at the time
<sistpoty> what do you think?
<ajmitch> hi crimsun 
<sistpoty> hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi ajmitch, sistpoty 
<ajmitch> sistpoty: sure, it's a good idea to set down some expectations
<LaserJock> hi crimsun 
<crimsun> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I don't think we should turn it into a obstacle course, but we should at least have some expectations
<crimsun> (I'm at McCarran atm)
<LaserJock> ah
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that's why I wrote nothing too tough... 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'll look at uploading it now
<LaserJock> ajmitch: thanks dude
<LaserJock> I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for vacation and want to wrap up a few things before I go
<sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe also s.th. like "show us some packaging work which you are personally really proud of"
<LaserJock> sistpoty: but shouldn't we already be familiar with the applicants work?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: hm... I guess the sponsors are, but I don't know if the council can track all of the hopefules
<crimsun> how about having them prepare (prior) some reviews on revu?
<sistpoty> yay, sounds like a good idea
<crimsun> (I almost said give a revu live, but that would probably be daunting)
<LaserJock> perhaps we could have basic application questions as a template for their wiki page
<ajmitch> ooh, live dissection
<LaserJock> uggg,
<ajmitch> yay, debian NM!
<ajmitch> we need something though
<sistpoty> crimsun... hm.. I wouldn't really do some reviewing "live", because in many motu situation, you don't need to know everything off hand, as long as you're prudent enough to ask the right ppl.
<LaserJock> well, but that could be shown in a live review too
<LaserJock> but I think that's a little much
<crimsun> sistpoty: right, that's why I favor a history of reviews on revu
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, but this might also be quite time consuming for the council, wouldn't it?
<LaserJock> ok, so what if a person applies for MOTUship
<sistpoty> crimsun: exactly
<LaserJock> is given REVU review rights for 2 weeks
<LaserJock> and is given whatever else we want
<LaserJock> and then after 2 weeks the Council votes
<sistpoty> LaserJock: sounds like a good plan
<crimsun> 2 weeks or the applicant's comfort, whichever is longer
<crimsun> we could cap it at a month
<sistpoty> LaserJock: but the applicant should have been already nominated for motu-ship by a mentor/sponsor (/me reads spec fast again), so that we won't grant that to random ppll
<LaserJock> so a MOTU would nominate a Hopeful for review
<sistpoty> hm... or sponsor comments... I guess that should count as well
<LaserJock> then they have something like 2 weeks to a month to do some reviewing and undergo scrutiny
<sistpoty> also we should make sure that we don't create a process that will take too long ;)
<LaserJock> then Council votes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why should doing reviews be part of becoming a MOTU?
<LaserJock> because I think that's where you can learn a lot about peoples knowledge
<sistpoty> ajmitch: it tells a little bit about the technical skills of the motu#?
<LaserJock> and I think it also helps people get used to doing REVUs
<imbrandon> hrm 
<sistpoty> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> i dont like that idea
<imbrandon> heya
<ajmitch> for every review they do, you're going to have to have someone watching & following up
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<imbrandon> sorry guys been watching and lurking hehe
* imbrandon waves
<sistpoty> ajmitch: right... 
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, my point would be that by the time they are nominated for MOTUship they should be pretty ok to leave alone
<ajmitch> it raises the bar a bit for required knowledge, which isn't necessarily bad
<imbrandon> LaserJock, exactly, maybe before but not after
<sistpoty> hm... as written before, we really should make sure that we don't create an impassable wall or too long process to become a motu, but we could as well try to ensure a little bit technical knowledge
<imbrandon> after one has motu we /should/ feel confrotable giving them the keys to the archive
<imbrandon> if not the processes is wrong, not the applicant
<LaserJock> no, I'm saying giving them keys to REVU reviewing
<LaserJock> which I think has a lower bar
<sistpoty> imbrandon: good point
<crimsun> I'm still thinking that anyone should be able to review on revu
* ajmitch thinks that reviewing is often harder than doing fixes/packaging your own stuff
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I agree
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i agree
<imbrandon> also
<LaserJock> that's why I think it should be a part of the MOTU process
<sistpoty> +1
<sistpoty> :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, not nessesarly , not every motu will revu stuff
<sistpoty> well, I'm not that convinced any longer, whether that needs to be an essential part
<LaserJock> I'm not convinced either way
<imbrandon> i kinda akin that to a ham having to learn moris code if it will never be used
<sistpoty> but I guess we should have some means to ensure the tech skills
<LaserJock> imbrandon: but I'm trying to MOTUs to do reviews, that's the whole point
<crimsun> when an applicant goes before MC, (s)he should be able to say, I packaged this, which is in the archive now -or- I helped review on revu these packages
<sistpoty> it could be *one* possible way for an applicant to show tech skills, out of several to pick from
<imbrandon> yes some measn, i dont think revu is that way though imho
<imbrandon> crimsun, right
<bddebian> crimsun is back already?
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> crimsun: that's why I think we should give them REVU review rights, and some other stuff to do/show
<crimsun> I'm suffering from horribly jittery wifi at McCarran Int'l Airport
<bddebian> Ugh
<LaserJock> REVU certainly shouldn't be the *only* criterion
<imbrandon> ahh crimsun 
<LaserJock> but I think it could be a good one
<LaserJock> as it would promote REVU
<crimsun> what are some other tech vectors?
<bddebian> Yes, let's please get more crap in the archive for us to maintain ;-P
<imbrandon> i'm suffering of a dual core new computer with only XP on it :(
<LaserJock> obviously packaging from scratch is good
<sistpoty> crimsun: maybe some tech questions to solve offline/online, review some packaging work the applicant has made
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, some low-level packaging :=
<sistpoty> :)
<imbrandon> well if we open revu for anyone to revu that brings up the problem of two non exprinced revuers "ok"ing something for the archive
<LaserJock> although I tend to think it's easier to do then working with the many many different types of packaging we get from Debian
<crimsun> what sort of tech questions, though?
<bddebian> kernel or X packages!!! :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: review, not advocate
<imbrandon> ahh
<sistpoty> crimsun: I guess we could take a look at the NM question db ;)
<imbrandon> then that i would like
<imbrandon> NOOOOOOOOOOO
<LaserJock> crimsun: ${shlibs:Depends)! :-)
<crimsun> that one 
<imbrandon> sistpoty, wash your mouth out
<crimsun> is vaguely familiar
<sistpoty> imbrandon: are they too tough? haven't looked at these yet 
<LaserJock> well, I doubt we could have a set of questions as after a few times people would just learn the answers
<imbrandon> its not that, its the red tape, we dont want this process to become debian ( again not tooo easy though )
<LaserJock> imbrandon: we aren't saying that
<sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm pretty creative when it comes to inventing questions ;)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, sistpoty, was :)
<LaserJock> no he wasn't
<crimsun> the ultimate question, I think, is whether MOTU requires packaging knowledge (I think it does), which necessitates having technical questions. IOW, is there any room for an MOTU who doesn't package?
<imbrandon> how do you propose to have a test and not 
<LaserJock> he said that maybe we could look at the Debian NM question db to see what kinds of questions they use
<sistpoty> imbrandon: no, I was saying we could look at the questions in case we can't make up some ourselves... as an inspiration
<sistpoty> ;)
<imbrandon> sistpoty, its not the questions them selfs its the idea of having a test
<sistpoty> hm...
<LaserJock> crimsun: I think a MOTU requires 3 things
<imbrandon> imho we came up with a great process in UDS
<LaserJock> 1) Packaging knowledge
<LaserJock> 2) Process knowledge
<LaserJock> 3) Team/Social knowledge
<bddebian> Hmm, do us current morons get grandfathered in? ;-P
<imbrandon> heh
<sistpoty> *g*
<LaserJock> of course, at least until you expire ;-)
<crimsun> well deities are obviously grandfathered
<imbrandon> hehe
* ajmitch certainly doesn't qualify
<sistpoty> imbrandon: actually my current idea is not so much of a "hard" test, but I don't know if I manage to get it shaped to words right now ;)
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> ^^ @ ajmitch 
<imbrandon> hrm i guess my question is why not implment what was discussed at UDS? seemed mdz,keybuk,dholbach,ajmitch,me,LaserJock and a few others were in on that processes
<imbrandon> and it seemed to work out
<ajmitch> LaserJock: did you see that? it requires *social skills*
<crimsun> imbrandon: is that spec'd?
<LaserJock> you have social skills ajmitch 
<imbrandon> crimsun, yes
<ajmitch> crimsun: of course, we've been trying to discuss it :)
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec
<crimsun> k, I'll have to look later, cos this connection is nasty
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it didn't seem like the details were worked out
<imbrandon> LaserJock, it might have been after you left but yes many many details were
<imbrandon> the only thing lacking realy is a MC
<sistpoty> imbrandon: what I dislike about it (at least how I read it), is that it's quite anonymous handled... all via email
<ajmitch> sistpoty: how is that anonymous?
<imbrandon> sistpoty, no its all public
<imbrandon> very very public
<LaserJock> not personal, I think is what he means
<imbrandon> well the first months of it are all irc etc, only the last 2 weeks are email
<sistpoty> ajmitch, imbrandon: well... hard to explain... let me try: Once I've hopefully finished my study, I get my diploma sent in via mail... and that's it
<sistpoty> there is nothing personal in there
<imbrandon> sistpoty, no
<ajmitch> sistpoty: going before the MOTU council for application requires that you have someone you've been working with suggest that you go for it
<ajmitch> an advocate, so to speak
<sistpoty> so I'd rather have the final ack (after email-discussion and so on), done on irc, as some kind of "celebration"
<imbrandon> sistpoty, more like you work with the faliculty and other studentds on irc for months , then when a teacher thinks you are ready he sends an email to the list saying, he this student is ready to grad
<LaserJock> I think the spec is too vague on this point
<LaserJock> of how the approval is supposed to go
<imbrandon> s/he/hey
<ajmitch> raise the issues on the list, rather than on irc
<LaserJock> it basically a TB meeting via email
<ajmitch> since we're just a small subset of the MOTUs
<LaserJock> sure, but I wanted to hash some stuff out before I do so
<imbrandon> sistpoty, irc meetings dont scale well , diffrent timezones etc
<crimsun> I think the 'teacher' bit might become a blocker, so we ought to consider a sponsor or a quorum of the MC
<imbrandon> plus dosent allow required input most of the time
<imbrandon> crimsun, the "teacher" was a sponsor
<crimsun> right, that's what I'm saying can potentially be a blocker
<sistpoty> imbrandon: no, it's actually only the "celebration" kind of thingy for the atmosphere... paaa, I'm really lacking the right words to describe what I mean ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> sistpoty: perhaps at the beginning of MC meetings we can acknowledge and congrat the new MOTUs
<imbrandon> well brb
<imbrandon> i have to run for a while, christmass shopping, crimsun safe flight
<crimsun> thanks
<ajmitch> bye imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> take care all, back in a few ghours
<imbrandon> hours*
<sistpoty> LaserJock: yes... that would s.th. I'm thinking of... some symbolic act of handing over the key to universe
<ajmitch> ghours? google is taking over!
<imbrandon> heh
<sistpoty> cya imbrandon
<sistpoty> anyway, know I don't know what I had in mind when I started to this line of though *g*
<LaserJock> I think we should look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<ajmitch> yes, that was in mind at UDS when we started speccing
<imbrandon> infact that was drafted at the same time iirc
<LaserJock> what I'm lacking in the MOTU spec is that there is no guidelines for evaluating those
* imbrandon is really afk now
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> I was there for some of it :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<ajmitch> I presumed you were
* ajmitch was there too, at some point :)
<LaserJock> the MOTU spec just has:
<LaserJock> The council will have two weeks of time to check the references and reply back.
<LaserJock> The applicant is encouraged to mention packages she/he maintains or specific uploads that were done quite well.
<LaserJock> #
<LaserJock>     *
<LaserJock>       The Council will check Launchpad's /+packages page, talk to select team members and go with the information collected that way.
<LaserJock> #
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> so we can basically evaluate some of the techincal ability via packages/debdiffs they've done in the past
<crimsun> right, this is the TB asking for prior packaging work
<crimsun> (historically)
<LaserJock> exactly
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> the current process for evaluation on the spec is just TB
<LaserJock> except MC does it
<LaserJock> and it's done via email
<LaserJock> so we lose the real-time questioning
<LaserJock> *loose
<crimsun> well, not necessarily
<crimsun> they still have to apply to the MC, no?
<sistpoty> hehe, so we motu's "ask questions of other developers in order to expand their understanding of packaging work"... I wonder who put this there and for what he had in mind **gg*
<bddebian> Later gang
<sistpoty> later bddebian
<bddebian> crimsun: have a safe flight
<crimsun> thanks barry
<ajmitch> bye bddebian 
<LaserJock> well, their application to the MC is an email
<LaserJock> If we had a template with questions we could at least get some, although I think at some point there should be some live questioning
<crimsun> but the applicant doesn't have to appear live in front of the MC?
<LaserJock> crimsun: not that I see
<LaserJock> from my reading of the spec the entire process of MOTUship is done via email
<LaserJock> from the applicant sending an application email to the MC sending the TB the results for final approval
<sistpoty> yes...
<LaserJock> I tend to think there should be some IRC discussion somewhere along the line
<LaserJock> even if it was a one-on-one interview with a MC member
<LaserJock> that then makes a recommendation
<crimsun> I would think that'd happen at MC
<LaserJock> crimsun: not according to the spec
<sistpoty> LaserJock +1... even if it might not be the most *efficient* way of handling this
<sistpoty> but it has some symbolic character... it's just some nice thingy
<sistpoty> offtopic: did anyone answer Marc Hauswirth (revu keyring addition) yet?
<sistpoty> Sp4rKy: still here?
<siretart> gnight folks
<ianm_> hi all, I'm a software author looking to get a couple GPL apps packaged and available in Ubuntu
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<sistpoty> hi ianm_: would you like to do the packaging yourself, or should someone else do it?
<ianm_> I would like someone else to, as I know nothing about it
<gouki> This may not be the best place, but ... I started playing with irssistats and made a temporary pages for #ubuntu (ubuntustats.homelinux.org). I was told that this was being done by official ubuntu members, anyone knows something about it?
<ianm_> the two apps are http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com/screenruler/  and  http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com/chessclock/
<ianm_> both depend on Ruby and the Ruby bindings for GTK, Glade and (the ruler only) Cairo, and work with the packages now in the repo
<sistpoty> ianm_: ok... can you put them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates please?
<ianm_> ok
<sistpoty> thanks
<gouki> ???
<ianm_> sistpoty: is that it?  then just hope someone sees it who wants to package it?
<sistpoty> ianm_: yes... of course pinging around here also helps ;)
<sistpoty> gouki: sorry, no real idea who's responsible there
<bhale> fabbione runes the irc logs
<crimsun> and Seveas may know/do stuff with #ubuntu stats
<gouki> I was told that tonyyarusso was working on something similiar, and I should coordinate with him ... Can't reach him!
<Burgwork> bhale: is that ruins?
<bhale> Burgwork: yes
<bhale> runs
<Seveas> ubugtu does number-of-users stats
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-21
<gouki> irssistats does a couple more, and I'm interested in going further with it (expand monitoring capabilities), but if someone else is doing it, I should help out, instead of starting fresh (=
<gouki> adding top 5 ubotu request, for example
<gouki> *requests
<ianm_> sistpoty: ok, I added them both, hopefully correctly
<sistpoty> thx ianm_
<theCore> nice... Mark Pilgrim is "recommending" checkinstall
<theCore> I think I got a package to do tonight
<LaserJock> theCore: where?
<theCore> http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/12/18/supertux-milestone-19
<LaserJock> theCore: seems reasonable, although I think it would be good to just distribute a .deb
<LaserJock> sistpoty: awesome, thanks for sending the email
<sistpoty> LaserJock: np ;)
* sistpoty needs still to collect data for tomorrows classroom-session
<sistpoty> ;)
<Burgwork> imbrandon: you delivering unto me ebox or do I need to intall it myself
<theCore> LaserJock: do you still use planner-el?
<LaserJock> theCore: not a bunch, I just haven't been using emacs a whole lot
<theCore> LaserJock: ah, well
<LaserJock> theCore: I might get back into it a little bit in the future
<theCore> LaserJock: then you should check out this mode http://staff.science.uva.nl/~dominik/Tools/org/
<geser> is it ok when a package sets the homedir of a system user to /var/run?
<sistpoty> geser: seems like it, at least from looking at /etc/passwd
<geser> in my /etc/passwd I have only those with a subdir in /var/run
<geser> sistpoty: I'm not quite sure if the change to postinst in http://librarian.launchpad.net/5474087/pidentd_76127.diff is ok
<sistpoty> geser: is it for a merge or a bug?
<geser> sistpoty: it's for bug 74968
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74968 in pidentd "Unable to write pid file" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74968
<geser> pidentd is started through inetd and has no init script
<sistpoty> geser: without testing it actually, the fix *looks* fine for me
<geser> it looks fine to me also but I'm note quite sure with the homedir as /var/run is used by different programs
<sistpoty> geser: /var/run is used by different programs. probably a cleaner fix would be to look through the source where the pid-file is stored and change this (or is it done via inetd?) 
<geser> it is done via inetd
<sistpoty> geser: the pid-thingy itself? or just started via inetd
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: thanks for dopi and klavaro reviews :)
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: thanks for your contributions ;)
<mr_pouit> np :)
<ajmitch> sarah! :)
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch :)
<mr_pouit> sistpoty: I have one question about sru : how many acks are needed ? 3 or 5 or ... ?
<sistpoty> mr_pouit: 3 (we are only 4 people ;)
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<mr_pouit> ok
<sistpoty> geser: probably that would be a better fix: src/pidentd.h:#define PATH_PIDFILE "/var/run/identd/identd.pid
<sistpoty> geser: (that's where the pid-file path is defined in pidentd, as far as I've seen it now)
<geser> yes, I wanted to also fix the remaining mentions of /var/run/identd
<Hobbsee> hey sistpoty 
<geser> pidentd itself gets started through inetd
<geser> I only don't know if "adduser --quiet --system --home /var/run identd" is ok, especially the choice of the homedir
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I thought there were 5 of you :)
<sistpoty> geser: imo it shouldn't be a problem... maybe ajmitch can verfiy that ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: member No. 5 is just the secret watching member ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: oh I see :)
* ajmitch can't verify anything... 
<sistpoty> ajmitch: the simple question geser wants to know if a daemon can have its homedir in /var/run itself?
<ajmitch> afaik it can
<Lathiat> lathiat@dargo:~$ cat /etc/passwd|grep /var/run|wc -l
<Lathiat> 6
<sistpoty> hi Lathiat
<Lathiat> howdy
<sistpoty> (but as in directly /var/run, not in a subdir)
<geser> Lathiat: those are subdirs of /var/run and not /var/run itself
<geser> sistpoty: thanks. If nobody says don't do it I will use that patch to use /var/run instead of /var/run/identd
<sistpoty> geser: do it ;)
<Lathiat> ohh, /var/run itself
<Lathiat> right, that seems a bit odd 
<ajmitch> plenty of programs put stuff directly in /var/run
<theCore> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> theCore: heya
<Lathiat> ajmitch: hrm, so they do
<theCore> Hobbsee: I trying to package the new version of supertux
<theCore> Hobbsee: but it seems to use Jam instead of Make
<Lathiat> woo, supertux
<ryanakca> how would I fix "W: solseek: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames solseek-panelapplet " ?
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: Teg?
<theCore> Hobbsee: What should I change in debian/rules to make it use Jam? $(MAKE)?
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: risk clone
<ryanakca> no, I was wondering if you wanted to have a game...
<Hobbsee> theCore: i *dont* know - but there/s a new version?  COOL!
<ryanakca> but tony's server is down :(
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: usually yes, at the moment, no
<theCore> Hobbsee: hehe
<ryanakca> "Error while trying to connect to server 'yarusso.no-ip.org' at port 2000" "net_listen:: Connection refused"
<theCore> ok, then I will go for the Q&D way
* Hobbsee looks at it
<sistpoty> theCore: jam is a make replacement, just use jam instead of $(MAKE)
<theCore> sistpoty: can I just do MAKE = jam?
<theCore> or this is "illegal"
<sistpoty> theCore: it's not illegal, but very very ugly to look at...
<theCore> hehe
<theCore> ok then
<sistpoty> theCore: because it's not clear from the beginning, that it's not make that you call but jam instead ;)
<theCore> s/$(MAKE)/jam/
<sistpoty> better :)
<sistpoty> ryanakca: for solseek: it puts shared objects to /usr/lib... but is no library.
<sistpoty> ryanakca: if these shared objects are used only by solseek, they should reside in /usr/lib/solseek instead
<ryanakca> sistpoty: ok... and I fix that by...
<ryanakca> ah, so patch it or something?
<ryanakca> or add "mkdir /usr/lib/solseek && mv /usr/lib/solseek_panelapple.so /usr/lib/solseek/" to rules/postinst?
<sistpoty> ryanakca: but it looks a little bit like these should really belong to somewhere else (for what is this solseek_panelapplet.so good for?)
<sistpoty> ryanakca: postinst would be completely wrong ;)
<ryanakca> sistpoty: no clue... lemme check
<sistpoty> ryanakca: and if move it only in rules, I guess the shared objects aren't found any longer
<ryanakca> and then run ldconfig afterwards?
<ryanakca> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3824
<sistpoty> ryanakca: I'd rather make configure do that for you... I'm quite sure it's one parameter e.g. --libdir or s.th,.
<theCore>  -> Considering  jam (>= 2.5)
<theCore> W: Unable to locate package jam
<theCore> bizarre
<sistpoty> theCore: pbuilder up to date?
<theCore> % apt-cache show jam | grep Version
<theCore> Version: 2.5rel-1
<theCore> maybe ...
<theCore> ahh, I only got the main component
<Hobbsee> theCore: poke me if you dont get that uploaded, and i'll look into it
<theCore> Hobbsee: ok
<theCore> yay, it's building
<Hobbsee> :)
<theCore> error....
<theCore> libvorbis missing
<theCore> not too bad
<Hobbsee> b-d on libvorbis-dev
<theCore> try #2
<theCore> I really need a way to find dependencies that build, check, update, build, check ...
<theCore> s/that/than
<theCore> there was a Perl hack somewhere in the maint-guide
<theCore> but the dependencies created were awful
<theCore> yay, it passed configure!
* theCore crosses his fingers
<theCore> ok, almost
<theCore> Hobbsee: do why debian/rules is copying the files manually (with cp) instead of using `make install'?
<sebest> is there a way to remove empty dir from a package?
<sistpoty> sebest: rmdir in debian/rules should do the trick
<sebest> sistpoty: should i do this at the end of the install target?
<sistpoty> sebest: after the directory is created, and before the debian package gets build... in short: yes
<sebest> sistpoty: thx
<sistpoty> np
<Lathiat> sebest!
<sebest> Lathiat ! :)
<sebest> what's up?
<Hobbsee> theCore: i'm not sure.  i believe it's deliberate though
<theCore> ahh
<theCore> I got it
<theCore> (I hope)
<Lathiat> sebest: nm, hows about you?
<Lathiat> thanks for fixing that bug :>
<agent> i created a python module deb that is supposed to work with with python > 1.5 and was tested with many different versions, including 2.2, by the mod author - yet it only works with 2.5 and not 2.4 on my system.. what can be wrong?
<sebest> Lathiat: it was really annoying :)
<Lathiat> yeh, was :)
<sistpoty> agent: what does it do with 2.4? spit out a backtrace?
<sebest> i read that avahi will be enabled by default, great
<agent> sistpoty: i cannot import it
<Lathiat> sebest: in feisty, yeh
<Lathiat> woo hoo ;)
<Lathiat> 0.6.16 is coming out shortlyish
<agent> sistpoty: my guess its a path problem
<sistpoty> agent: probably... or it was built only for 2.5 and not for 2.4
<agent> sistpoty: but usr/lib/python2.4 and usr/lib/python2.5 both have the exact same files installed... the rest is in /usr/share/python-support/
<agent> sistpoty: could it still be the case that it was built only for 2.5?
<sistpoty> agent: hm... then it *should* really work imo... 
<sistpoty> agent: are you build-depending on python-all-dev?
<agent> sistpoty: yes
<agent> sistpoty: should i try 2.4 only?
<Hobbsee> theCore: gotten supertux done yet?
<theCore> Hobbsee: I am finishing it
<agent> sistpoty: then again, if i do 2.4 only it won't build the module for 2.5... hrm
<sebest> Lathiat: do you know something about update-menus?
<Lathiat> not a thing ;)
<Hobbsee> theCore: yay :)
<Lathiat> sorry
<sistpoty> agent: python-all-dev will draw in 2.4 and 2.5, so that shouldn't be the problem
<agent> sistpoty: yeah... i endedup installing 2.5 because of that :)
<sistpoty> agent: and it does work wrt with 2.5? and not with 2.4 though the files are the same?
<agent> sistpoty: i just don't get it... all the files that really count are version number agnostic in terms of directory structure since its all in /usr/share/python-support
<agent> sistpoty: yes, that is correct
<LaserJock> sistpoty!
<sistpoty> LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> you da man :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<agent> sistpoty: well, looking at the dir structure more closely, usr/lib/python2.*/ are populated exactly the same, but they are empty of files - they just have dirs.. all python files are in usr/share/python-support/
<sistpoty> agent: do you call dh_pythonsupport (or whatever that is called nowadays *g*) in debian/rules?
* agent checks to make sure
<sebest> is it possible to comment on REVU even if i'm not a reviewer?
<theCore> does Feisty will have Python 2.5 by default? 
<sistpoty> sebest: just pm me your comment, I'll add it
<agent> sistpoty: dh_pysupport and dh_python are called
<sistpoty> theCore: seems like it
<theCore> \o/
<sebest> sistpoty: i wanted to comment on one of my upload
<sistpoty> sebest: you can always do that ;)
<sistpoty> (if you can get to your password)
<sebest> sistpoty: that's what i'm missing :)
<sistpoty> agent: have them in debian/rules?
<sistpoty> sebest: does the recover password thingy work?
<agent> sistpoty: yes... i think without that nothing would build :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: done
<sistpoty> agent: well, haven't made through the python-transition myself, so I cannot tell this ;)
<sistpoty> agent: sorry, I have no more clues w.o. looking at the package. can you put it somewhere?
<sebest> sistpoty: that's what i was looking for, but there is non on the homepage, does it only appear on failed login?
<Hobbsee> theCore: yay :)
<Hobbsee> does it work?
<sistpoty> sebest: yep... just enter anything in the password field ;)
<theCore> Hobbsee: I am testing it
<Hobbsee> :)
<agent> sistpoty: i think i know whats wrong actually... crazy python install scripts look in control file which itself looks for python version somehow (dunno how) and somewhere there is a communication mistake where only 2.5 is shown... although i still do not understand how 2.4 dirs are created :/
<agent> sistpoty: it calls pyversion -r
<agent> sistpoty: (the install script) to get python avail versions
<sistpoty> agent: ah, I knew there was some magic with the pyhton-versions from control file involved, but as I said, I didn't dive too deep into it
<agent> can someone run pyversions -r in their terminal and tell me if it works or errors with "error parsing Python-Version attribute"
<sistpoty> same here
<sistpoty> sebest: do you want an answer via mail or right here? (/me == daemon@poleboy.de=
<sebest> ah ok
<sebest> sistpoty: i rewrote the package with debhelper
<sistpoty> nice
<sebest> but about the licence , yes you can tell me here
<sistpoty> sebest: you should put a link to the gentoo bug report in debian/copyright. that way it's clear that upstream *meant* it to be gpl/artistic and only wrote otherwise in his script
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebest> sistpoty: oki, and about the "or perl artistic" ?
<sistpoty> sebest: for the dual license, just write s.th. like: This software is dual licensed, either GPL or Artistic License, then the gpl snippet and some pointers to look at /usr/share/common-licenses/{GPL,Artistic}
<sistpoty> sebest: it was artistic license, right?
<sebest> yes right
<sistpoty> ok, should be fine then
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<bddebian> You're a REVU machine :)
<sistpoty> I just try to catch up with you ;)
<bddebian> Heh, yeah right :-)
<agent> is there a shell command/script that will output to console what python versions are available?
<agent> python -V just outputs current default version, not all versions installed
<sistpoty> agent: pyversions -s or pyversions -i
* sistpoty is out for a smoke
<agent> sistpoty: what is the difference? i don't want to create a package that works for me and then breaks when 2.6 or whatnot comes around
<sistpoty> agent: it's supported vs. installed... so in theory pyversions -i would be the same to pyversions -s if you build-depend on python-all-dev
<agent> sistpoty: okay, thank you... i will use -i for installed "just in case"
<sistpoty> hehe
<LaserJock> alright, I'm off
<LaserJock> I should be back in a couple of days
<sistpoty> cya LaserJock
<LaserJock> if anybody needs something tell them to email
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> ok, one last review, then I'm off to bed...
<LaserJock> \o/
<ajmitch> bye LaserJock 
<sistpoty> anyone with a review request right now?
<sebest> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3841 :)
<sistpoty> sebest: ok
<theCore> oh the fun...
<theCore> I installed supertux in /
<agent> :D
<agent> it could be worse, at least the rules file did not have a "rm -rf /" line in it :D
<theCore> hehe
<agent> err
<agent> maybe i should not give people ideas
* bhale yawns
<theCore> we got fakeroot for that :)
* Hobbsee drops icecubes down bhale's back
<sistpoty> sebest: uploaded, thx
* bhale forgives Hobbsee 
<bhale> for now
<Hobbsee> hehe
<sebest> sistpoty: thanx!
<sebest> sistpoty: i have 2 other package, one small, and one bigger :)
<sebest> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3809
<sistpoty> sebest: the smaller one right now, the bigger one tommorrow, ok?
<sebest> yes, the smaller is not yet on the revu page
<sistpoty> argl... ok then I'll review the bigger one now, and the smaller one tomorrow ;)
<sebest> sistpoty: the big one will also be reviewed by seb128, because it needs a specific configuration in smb.conf: enabling the "net usershare" functionnality
<sistpoty> sebest: nautilus-share?
<sebest> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> sebest: the long description could be a little bit more verbose
<sistpoty> sebest: are you upstream for it?
<sebest> sistpoty: i am
<sistpoty> ah,k
<brainsik> does anyone know why the echo command behaves differently under dash than bash?
<sistpoty> sebest: then debian/copyright makes sense ;)
<sistpoty> brainsik: I guess it's a builtin in bash?
<sebest> brainsik: maybe on is built-in ?
<sistpoty> hehe
<brainsik> sebest, sistpoty: that's true, but the docs for each say -e option does the same thing. :(
<sebest> brainsik: i already notice a similar bug, the vmware scripts use bin/sh which is a link to dash on edgy, and the script fails on echo -e
<brainsik> sebest: exactly. in my case, one of the module-source packages in main wouldn't compile
<sebest> to solve my issue i changed !bin/sh to !bin/bash, but i don't know if you can do the same
<sistpoty> sebest: there shouldn't be an shlibs file in the package, since it's not a library and also the generated postinst with the ldconfig call is useless
<sebest> that's not a library?
<sistpoty> sebest: you don't link programs against it, do you?
<sebest> sistpoty: right, it's just a nautilus extension
<sistpoty> see ;)
<sebest> .so
<freeflying|away> REVU day today?
<brainsik> sebest: i'm tempted to remove the dash package. this is the second time it's caused a package to fail for me.
<sistpoty> freeflying|away: yep
<sistpoty> FeistyFawn: and tomorrow and the day after tomorrow as well
<sistpoty> freeflying|away: ^^ even
<freeflying|away> cool  :)
<sebest> sistpoty: what should i fix about the shlibs issue?
<sebest> sistpoty: i don't understand where the postint/preinst scripts come from :)
<sistpoty> sebest: you shouldn't call dh_makeshlibs... but I don't know how you can do this with cdbs :)
<sistpoty> sebest: postinst/preinst also comes from dh_makeshlibs
<sebest> sistpoty: it's hidden deep in cdbs?
<sistpoty> sebest: deep as in crypted, yes
<sebest> sistpoty: i see some env var in /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<sistpoty> sebest: I look at it right now, but I haven't found a way to disable it yet :(
* sistpoty dislikes cdbs *very much*
<sebest> sistpoty:  he :)
<ScottK> I fixed up pyspf-2.0.1 from the latest set of REVU comments.  I believe it's ready for another look http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3843 - Thanks!
<sebest> sistpoty: i don't know why i used that, it was some one year ago or so
<sebest> sistpoty: the nice thing is that it's quite easy to use
<sistpoty> sebest: unless the package is not common enough ;)
<sistpoty> sebest: maybe this will give some hints: /usr/share/doc/cdbs/buildcore.png
<sistpoty> anyway, it's much too late here, and I gotta get up early (for a lazy student that is) tomorrow
<sistpoty> good night everyone
<freeflying|away> I lost my passwd of revu,  :)
<sebest> freeflying|away: just try to login and the magic "recover my pass" will appear :)
<freeflying|away> sebest: thanks
* theCore is playing Supertux M3 :P
<theCore> should I upload it?
<Lathiat> theCore: shoot me the packages ;)
<theCore> Lathiat: :)
<Lathiat> i want to play it :P
<Lathiat> haha
<theCore> Lathiat: source or binary?
<Lathiat> been lookign forward to that
<Lathiat> source is good
<theCore> then, I need to build it
<theCore> :/
<Lathiat> build what?
<theCore> the source package
<Lathiat> right, thats not that hard is it?
<theCore> no
<agent> are there any changes to the defaults in terms of paths that must be made when using distutils to install python modules?
<theCore> Lathiat: it should take only a few minutes
<Lathiat> fwaah, might take a whiel to upload, 30M :P
<theCore> Lathiat: done
<theCore> Lathiat: I uploaded it to REVU
<jdong> ok, I think that's quite enough of me revamping the iPodVideoEncoding article...
<jdong> any more and they might dispatch the MPAA to my front door :D
* Lathiat laughs
<theCore> Lathiat: how do I send it to you?
<theCore> it's 40MB
<Lathiat> i'll grab it off revu
<theCore> ok
<theCore> Lathiat: but you still need the original tarball
<theCore> Lathiat: REVU only has the diff
<_Enchained> Hi all
<bddebian> Heya _Enchained
<_Enchained> bddebian: question :
<_Enchained> I have to package a soft who use a .sh script to install
<_Enchained> and in the script
<_Enchained> it use java -jar
<_Enchained> so I must put sun-java5-jre in BuildDep ?...
<_Enchained> or anything else ?...
<bddebian> I don't do java, sorry :(
<_Enchained> I'll ask tomorrow in classroom-fr ^^
<_Enchained> go to sleep
<_Enchained> @
<bddebian> What's the best way to tell why a package is in Debian but not in Ubuntu?
<_Enchained> bddebian: can you give me your opinion on http://most-enchained.com/ubuntu/medibuntu/ ?
<_Enchained> I made the site tonight
<_Enchained> (how are graphics etc...)
<bddebian> Looks nice
<_Enchained> somthing to correct ?...
<bddebian> Not that I can see
<_Enchained> ok thanks
<_Enchained> I go
<_Enchained> (to bed)
<bddebian> Gnight
<bddebian> Gah, why is there no year on REVU?
<ajmitch> probably because we never expected things to get that stale
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye :-)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> What freakin' order are packages in on REVU?
<theCore> I think I will participate to the Summer of Code this year. My project would certainly be writing a better REVU 
<theCore> something like Guido's Mondrian would be cool
<LaserJock> bddebian: I think they are by comments, and the perhaps time
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: going to ebox myself
<bhale> Burgundavia: koke ebox?
<Burgundavia> http://ebox-platform.com/installation-guide
<Burgundavia> hmm, not liking feisty, however
<bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey bddebian
<theCore> siretart: could remove supertux from /incoming ?
<theCore> I need to upload the original source 
<theCore> ajmitch: ping
<bddebian> Hmm, obviously REVU doesn't update itself WRT new packages either :-(
<chillywilly> hi
<bddebian> What do we do about updates to packages that were already brought into the archives?  Do we still need two acks?
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<ajmitch> theCore: yes?
<chillywilly> hi
<bddebian> Gnight gang
<ajmitch> night bddebian 
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi daniel
<dholbach> hey Andrew
<tepsipakki> hmm, checkinstall build failed on amd64
<tepsipakki> installwatch.c: In function 'fopen64':
<tepsipakki> installwatch.c:3267: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size
<tepsipakki> make[2] : *** [installwatch.o]  Error 1
<tepsipakki> is that common?
<Fujitsu> ... it is checkinstall, so it's cursed.
<dholbach> tepsipakki: does it build with  -Wall ?
<imbrandon> moins
<imbrandon> FINALY got some form of linux on here
<imbrandon> this thing is nice but a pita
<imbrandon> gig nic isnt detected , no accelerated video :(
<imbrandon> i hate new computers
<chillywilly> :-/
<imbrandon> no tv card workie'
<imbrandon> man
* imbrandon gets to work
<tepsipakki> dholbach: no idea.. I have no amd64 machine to test
<tepsipakki> or you mean in general
<dholbach> in general - it's stopping the build after a warning only
<tepsipakki> oh
<tepsipakki> I'll try when I get to work
<imbrandon> ok ajmitch and other gurus, i'm buying a vid card tonight ( PCI-e ) as cheap as possible, ATI or NV ?
<Hobbsee> nv, duh?
<imbrandon> hrm but the free ATI drivers do 3d :)
* imbrandon contemplates
<imbrandon> here is the one i was thinking about getting, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814141035
<imbrandon> i just need something better than this onboard video that only does 1024x768 even in windows
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> wget http://voyager.imbrandon.com/misc/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.3.3.1ubuntu1-2.noarch.rpm
<imbrandon> err
<nixternal> haha
<imbrandon> heya nixternal 
<nixternal> i take it yakuake wasn't hilighted :)
<nixternal> howdy
<imbrandon> nice domain :)
<nixternal> why thank you ;)
<nixternal> $22 for the whole year
<imbrandon> btw i offered you the same deal many many moons ago :) but no biggie 
<imbrandon> hehe any dreamhost customer can do it
<nixternal> ya, i finally said the hell with it and did it
<imbrandon> hehe
<nixternal> only cuz i had like $29 in my stale paypal account
<imbrandon> yea i finaly moved most everyting off dreamhost anyhow onto my new box
<imbrandon> except seveas.imbrandon.com is the only thing left on the dreamhost box
<imbrandon> pay for a full year ?
<nixternal> yup
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> your on mtdew ?
<nixternal> hehe ya
<imbrandon> omg you have to give me a shell hahaha
<nixternal> the only server i don't have an account on
<nixternal> err..didn't have an account on
<imbrandon> haha
<nixternal> i have like nixternal-nixternal20 over there
<tepsipakki> dholbach: about checkinstall.. it already uses -Wall
<dholbach> tepsipakki: yes, that's why it fails to build
<dholbach> (because of the warning)
<imbrandon> heya dholbach 
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<tepsipakki> hmm, seems that I didn't paste the error:
<tepsipakki> installwatch.c: At top level:
<tepsipakki> installwatch.c:2694: error: conflicting types for 'readlink'
<tepsipakki> /usr/include/unistd.h:775: error: previous declaration of 'readlink' was here
<dholbach> I hope you all have seen the universe manual merges too! :-)
<imbrandon> dholbach, yup, i'm working on merges all day today 
<dholbach> nice :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you make me feel like a real slacker
<imbrandon> hahah i've been slacking the last few days
<imbrandon> so its time to make up
<imbrandon> even if i have no useable x
<imbrandon> hehe
<tepsipakki> what does the "manual" mean, that there is no REPORT and stuff available?
<tepsipakki> umm, no
<tepsipakki> only tried pax-utils, which didn't
<tepsipakki> ah, I got it, maybe... so the version in ubuntu is not based on any version in debian, right?
<imbrandon> tepsipakki, basicly , yes
<imbrandon> little more to it than that sometimes, but thats the jest of it
<tepsipakki> ok, I can look at some of them
<imbrandon> sometimes they are based on the same verions just packed diffrently ( that happens when its in ubuntu first etc at times )
<imbrandon> etc
<tepsipakki> but it's ok to keep the delta as low as possible?
<tepsipakki> ie. base it on the debian-version
<imbrandon> amarok is a good ( bad? ) example of that in ubuntu and debian, they are two totaly diffrent animals
<imbrandon> but both 1.4.4
<imbrandon> based
<tepsipakki> heh
<imbrandon> but yea, imho keep the delta as small as possible if any at all
<imbrandon> i dunno if thats official, but thats the rule of thumb i try to follow
<imbrandon> dholbach could probably give you the "official" answer
<imbrandon> :)
<tepsipakki> "manual" seems to also mean that grab-merge.sh doesn't work :)
<imbrandon> possibly
<dholbach> you have to merge manually
<tepsipakki> I'll start at the bottom, xfce4-xmms-plugin first
<tepsipakki> s/at/from/
<tepsipakki> xfce4-xmms-plugin can be synced, filing a sync-request
<tepsipakki> wonder why it was packaged for ubuntu in the first place, since there was a debian version available
<shawarma> tepsipakki: Our version predates the Debian one by three weeks. :-)
<shawarma> compare http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xfce4-xmms-plugin/xfce4-xmms-plugin_0.4.0-0ubuntu1/changelog  with http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/x/xfce4-xmms-plugin/xfce4-xmms-plugin_0.4.0-2/changelog
<tepsipakki> not true, 0.3.1-1 was packaged Mon 8 Aug 2005 :)
<tepsipakki> why not base the newer version on that
<tepsipakki> but anyway
<shawarma> tepsipakki: Sure, but we don't always wait for Debian to package new upstream versions.
<tepsipakki> of course not, but that wasn't the point :)
<shawarma> tepsipakki: Ok. I've been awake for 26 hours (working the 25 of them) so I'm not thinking entirely straight right now.
<shawarma> and all the while you guys have been having fun merging things for Ubuntu.. gah...
<tepsipakki> shawarma: hehe, take it easy then :)
<tepsipakki> and get some sleep :)
<shawarma> tepsipakki: Not quite yet. Major deadline in 2 hours and 10 minutes. Work, work, work.
<shawarma> 2 hours, 10 minutes and 32 seconds, actually.
<tepsipakki> heh, pity you :)
<tepsipakki> shawarma: do you mind if I look at rawstudio?
<shawarma> tepsipakki: Not at all.
<lfittl> anyone in here who will come to the 23rd Chaos Communication Congress next week?
<shawarma> tepsipakki: I'm quite certain it's just a sync.
<tepsipakki> we'll see
<tepsipakki> maybe yes, tepache was a sync-candidate as well
<tepsipakki> hrmh, I hate it when config.guess is in the diff
<tepsipakki> shawarma: actually the ubuntu version has a patch from upstream, I'll keep that
<Sp4rKy> hi 
<shawarma> tepsipakki: Ah, yes, I suppose they haven't gotten round to releasing that. Good catch. :-)
<\sh> moins
<highvoltage> hey mr \sh. I thought you are on holiday :)
<\sh> yepp last day at work ;)
<\sh> dholbach: libgoffice...I can only see libgoffice-0-x in feisty...what about libgoffice-1-x? :)
<dholbach> ask upstream
<dholbach> they went from .so.1 to .so.0
<\sh> argl...and gnome-chemistry-utils needs libgoffice-1-x *grmpf*
<dholbach> then you need to do a one-character change in debian/control, no?
<ajmitch> \sh: that's a well-known problem, there are people working on that
<dholbach> ajmitch: who's working on what?
<ajmitch> the science team
<\sh> dholbach: some more changes went into the debian package
<ajmitch> gnome-chemistry-utils
<ajmitch> ask laserjock or fujitsu or azeem
<dholbach> \sh: which changes in which package?
<\sh> dholbach: gnome-chemistry-utils
<dholbach> ah, well then it's a one-character change on top of those changes :)
<\sh> libgchemutils became libgcu
<\sh> and our changes we can drop completly...and adjusting the debian package...and merging the changelog
<tepsipakki> rawstudio done
<azeem> the problem with gnome-chemistry-utils is that it needs the stable libgoffice, while Ubuntu has been shiping unstable ones so far, AFAICT
<azeem> but LaserJock had a deeper look at it than I, and is working on it together with upstream
<dholbach> azeem: the API changes between the two are minor (goffice-1 and goffice-0)
<azeem> dholbach: ok
<\sh> let's have a look...
<dholbach> new API has been added, but only very very few have changed
<azeem> I'm not convinced that g-c-u should use goffice in the first place, but that's a different story
<tepsipakki> om, omins done
<tepsipakki> riddell: ping?
<tepsipakki> riddell: nevermind, was going to ask about plotdrop but it is sync-able and a request filed
<daya> raphink, hi 
<tepsipakki> giskard: ping
<tepsipakki> bah, not here
<tepsipakki> zul: ping
<tepsipakki> zul: gmail-notify seems to be a sync candidate
<tepsipakki> debian has all the patches that we do
<gnomefreak> anyone in here know french?
* bhale blames seb128
<bhale> or dholbach!
<dholbach> hahaha
<fernando> moin
* Hobbsee_ blames dholbach too
<tepsipakki> hobbsee: kguitar seems as a sync candidate, do you agree?
<Hobbsee_> tepsipakki: what are the versions of each?
<Hobbsee_> tepsipakki: that's on manual, isnt it?
<gpocentek> gnomefreak: yes
<tepsipakki> yes
<gnomefreak> gpocentek: i think i got it
<gnomefreak> ty though gpocentek 
<tepsipakki> hobbsee_: we have 0.5-0ubuntu4, debian has 0.5-2
<gpocentek> np :)
<Hobbsee_> tepsipakki: gotta wait till 0.6* to sync it
<Hobbsee_> tepsipakki: just leave that
<tepsipakki> ok
<Hobbsee_> tepsipakki: differening base tarballs
<Hobbsee_> -en
<tepsipakki> oh
<Hobbsee_> (which is why it's a manual merge)
<StevenK> That can be fixed.
<StevenK> Well. Worked around. :-)
<tepsipakki> hmm, I've now done 11 merge/sync-requests from the manual-queue.. hope that it wasn't all wasted :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i know it can, but i didnt see anything specifically worth grabbing from debian, during edgy development
<\sh> Hobbsee: taking kdbg
<StevenK> Which makes it easier to ignore.
<Hobbsee> \sh: go for it
<StevenK> Fair enough.
<Hobbsee> \sh: there's something fishy @that, iirc - it may not build, or the base tarballs may differ as well
* tepsipakki goes to have lunch ->
<\sh> Hobbsee: new upstream version
<\sh> Hobbsee: missing some build-deps (autoconf/automake)
<Hobbsee> \sh: way cool, should be fine then
<\sh> Hobbsee:jepp easy one ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: :)
<Hobbsee> \sh: not a sync, presumably?
<\sh> nope
<\sh> dh_iconcache was your change...and now some build-deps are missing on ubuntu
<Hobbsee> ah, and it's using debhelper, not cdbs
<\sh> jep
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> to update, or not to update....that is the question...
<\sh> what?
<Hobbsee> my feisty
<Hobbsee> i thought i heard reports of it not booting
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it works again for me now
<\sh> Hobbsee: gnucash taken ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: go for it.  it's a gnome app
<dholbach> I deliberately didn't merge jokosher.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: right
<dholbach> just fyi - it doesn't work with either the debian's gstreamer nor ours
<tepsipakki> dholbach: whoops, didn't notice the change in gst-plugins-farsight.. glad it didn't yet get sync'ed
<dholbach> no problem
<dholbach> it's not terribly important, but it makes the snippet in debian/rules work
<dholbach> in CDBS, you can use       <target>::
<dholbach> or                <binarypackage>/<target>::
<dholbach> they used              <sourcepackage>/<target>::
<dholbach> which doesn't work
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki, that plotdrop sync is invalid. The upstream tarballs differ.
<dholbach> so the removal of the *.la files didn't work
<tepsipakki> fujitsu: <sigh> why do they differ?
<Fujitsu> 'cause that's the way the world works. Blame LaserJock :P
<tepsipakki> ok, I'll have another look
<dholbach> tepsipakki: sometimes it's because of generating a .tar.gz from a .tar.bz2 (if the timestamp differs, the md5sum differs)
<dholbach> tepsipakki: sometimes it's because a maintainer thinks that certain files shouldn't be shipped (which mostly is indicated by -dfsg.orig.tar.gz to indicate license problems)
<Fujitsu> tepsipakki, don't bother. There's no action that can be taken on plotdrop at this time, and upstream is dead.
<dholbach> same for tarballs generated from svn/cvs/...
<tepsipakki> hmm, I guess hugin is a similar case
<tepsipakki> it had CVS-stuff in the ubuntu tarball
<tepsipakki> Fujitsu: do you refer to debian or the real upstream being dead? there seems to be 0.51 available
<tepsipakki> so if the tarballs differ, the package can't be synced?
<tepsipakki> I guess syncing doesn't include copying the same orig.tar.gz again :)
<tepsipakki> so I'll reject the requests
<Hobbsee> tepsipakki: correct
<tepsipakki> I'm slowly getting the hang of it
<Hobbsee> :)
<slavik> is there any chance for mono-1.2 package for dapper?
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<slavik> hi
<slavik> is there any chance for mono-1.2 package for dapper?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<cypher1> bddebian: hi!
<bddebian> Hello cypher1
<MidMark> hi, if I want to sponsor a bug to be added in amule -> feisty which motu I've to add?
<MidMark> I mean which motu I've to subscribe to the bug?
<wbadger> hello people, can someone please tell me what ubuntu<number> means in package names?
<MidMark> 1ubuntu2 means: 1 version taken from debian, 2 version specific to ubuntu, means-> 2nd patched version from original source v1
<bddebian> MidMark: Just subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<wbadger> so openoffice.org 2.0.4-0ubuntu4 for example would mean it's still openoffice v2.0.4-0 and had 4 paches applied to it by ubuntu guys?
<MidMark> bddebian: thx
<MidMark> wbadger: it's not taken from debian, is all from ubuntu, and there are 4 patches
<MidMark> 1 patch can have multiple patches of course
<wbadger> you mean 1 patch can have multiple fixes?
<MidMark> substitute patch with updates.... 4 updates
<MidMark> one updates can have multiple patches
<wbadger> MidMark, ok thank you :)
<slavik> will there be a mono-1.2 package for dapper?
<sistpoty|uni> hi folks
<gpocentek> hey sistpoty|uni 
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: !!!
<sistpoty|uni> hi gpocentek and bddebian 
<\sh> phew...
<\sh> many syncs, many merges
<bddebian> Aye :-(
<\sh> I'm ready for glhwein ;)
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> hey bddebian
<sistpoty|uni> hi \sh 
<bddebian> Damn, who's requesting all the syncs? :)
<tepsipakki> I am?
<bddebian> tepsipakki: All the xfonts ones?
<tepsipakki> oh.. no
<tepsipakki> but from the manual-queue
<tepsipakki> I've double-checked their validity
<\sh> me
<bddebian> Have you built them?  Alot of times the manual syncs are due to md5sum problems because our orig.tar.gz isn't the same as Debians
<sistpoty|uni> more syncs == less merges in the future :)
<bddebian> \sh: Ah :-)
<bddebian> sistpoty|uni: No, it's good, I was just curious
<tepsipakki> sync: xfce4-xmms-plugin, tepache, pax-utils, omins, keytouch-editor, gmorgan, gmail-notify, beaglefs
<\sh> who else...coming on the last day of work ;)
<tepsipakki> merge: rawstudio, om
<bddebian> \sh: ;-)
<tepsipakki> rejected for now: hugin, plotdrop
<sistpoty|uni> damn... now \sh will spam mail spam the changes list again :P
<\sh> my 4 core machine needs something to do ;)
<sistpoty|uni> hehe
<\sh> sistpoty|uni: a long time ago that was right...now the young ones have to work more then me ;)
<tepsipakki> it's been quiet since yesterday ;)
<\sh> ok..off from work and now it's pub time with my colleagues
<\sh> bye
<sistpoty|uni> have fun \sh_away 
<bddebian> Later \sh_away
<jdong> imbrandon: ping
<jdong> imbrandon: your xchat-gnome -0ubuntu2 upload didn't fix the tab char, it's still present and puking pbuilder
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> jdong, ok i'll fix it here in a few
<imbrandon> ( or try to again ) 
<imbrandon> i have a meeting in 20 minutes
<imbrandon> i'll do it after that
<zorglu_> q. i would like to generate a new version in the .../debian/changes file, is there any tools to do that ?
<zorglu_> .../debian/changelog i meant
<azeem> zorglu_: dch
<zorglu_> thanks
<zorglu_> azeem: dch is not installed on my box, apt-cache search doesnt seems to find it either, any suggestion on the package name containing dch ?
<azeem> packages.ubuntu.com has a search facility for that, at the bottom
<zorglu_> ok apparently it does a apt-cache search :)
<zorglu_> i will google some more :)
<zorglu_> ok the pacakge name was 'devscripts'
<azeem> it works for me
<Czessi> Hi, I need a 2nd advocate. Can someone take a look, please: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3765
<sistpoty|uni> Czessi: sorry, cannot do reviews while at uni, but I'll look at it once I'm back at home (probable in 2-3 hours)
<sistpoty|uni> Czessi: could you ping me then again? (I might forget otherwise *g*)
<bddebian> Czessi: I'll try to take a look in a couple of minutes as well
<Czessi> sistpoty|uni: Thanks. I must go to work in 2,5h 
<sistpoty|uni> Czessi: d'oh. the +1 is from me :(
<Czessi> bddebian: great, thanks
<zorglu_> q. i got several package all creating/using the same configuration directory with the main config file in it, i would like to copy a default configuration at installation to save the time to the user, how can i fix the conflict of several package creating the same dir and default config file ?
<zorglu_> what is the usual behaviour to follow in this case
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: hm... maybe make one package that contains the configuration, on which the other packages need to depend on (which don't have the configuration)
<zorglu_> hmm is there another possibility ?:)
<zorglu_> i mean i find that overkill, from my shallow experience in the packaging field :)
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: well, there should be other possibilities as well... let me think
<zorglu_> hmm what about copying the default conf if and only if the config file is not already there ?
<zorglu_> is that ok ?
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: sounds ok
<zorglu_> ok cool :)
<zorglu_> now i just have to find out how to do that :)
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: but you could run in trouble, if you need to update the default configuration
<zorglu_> hmm i see
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: because you'd need to fiddle out, if an admin modified the config or not
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: the resolution would be pretty trivial though: if modified then don't do anything ;)
<zorglu_> hehe :)
<sistpoty|uni> zorglu_: another possibility was to abuse the alternatives system for that: each package could ship the config in a location unique to the package, and the alternatives system could take over which one to use
<sistpoty|uni> (but that's not really an improvement over a separate config-package imo)
<zorglu_> i agree :)
<zorglu_> ok thanks for the info :)
<sistpoty|uni> np
* sistpoty|uni continues hacking
<bddebian> Czessi: OK, advocated, though I'm not sure what we do about klear in NEW
<Czessi> bddebian: I think it already my package in NEW (see December 11 12:10 and December 12 09:47 at the revu page)
<bddebian> Czessi: Aye, but we should upload the newer version :-)
<Czessi> bddebian: hmm, can't you delete the klear in NEW or is it newer than my package?
<bddebian> I can't delete it :)
<Czessi> bddebian: who can do that? 
<bddebian> Only archive admins I assume
<theCore> ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming has been wiped?
<theCore> that's interesting
* sistpoty|uni heads home
<sistpoty|uni> cya later
<hub> how do I version packages that are "beta" release?
<crimsun_> use ~
<crimsun_> 1.0~beta3-0ubuntu1
<hub> ah ok
<hub> thx
<crimsun_> np
<hub> I wonder if I should upload it to REVU or to the archive
<hub> I'll check it out first
<hub> (the previous version is in universe)
<crimsun_> archive
<hub> of course debian highly diverge from my original package
<hub> *sigh*
<crimsun_> fun
<hub> it is debian
<somerville32> If I was in the middle of packaging one version of an application and another gets released (and I'd like to package this new version instead), should I just ask a MOTU to archive the current on revu and upload the new?
<mr_pouit> somerville32: you can reupload, it will replace the old version
<somerville32> mr_puit: k
<hub> crimsun_: my fear in uploading to the archive is that it might be less stable than 0.6.1
<toma> how often is the new queue processed?
<mr_pouit> for revu or the archive ?
<toma> mr_pouit:  archive
<mr_pouit> I don't know for the archive :/
<toma> mr_pouit: ok, is this the right channel to ask?
<mr_pouit> yes, maybe you can ask on #ubuntu-devel
<mr_pouit> *also
<zorglu_> q. im porting a init.d script from fedora and it uses 'chkconfig', is there an equivalent for ubuntu ? i looked at the existing scripts and none seems to use chkconfig
<zorglu_> or maybe a place where i could learn how to write a init.d script suitable for ubuntu
<mr_pouit> zorglu_: http://wiki.debian.org/chkconfig ?
<zorglu_> ah ok, so chkconfig is fully supported under ubuntu ?
<mr_pouit> zorglu_: no, it gives chkconfig/update-rc.d equivalences
<zorglu_> mr_pouit: i dunno why but i was under the impression it was a fedora specific 
<zorglu_> ah ok
<mr_pouit> I think you're right, it is fedora specific ^^
<zorglu_> reading then :)
<ajmitch> morning
<geser> hello ajmitch 
<zul> afternoon
<zorglu_> mr_pouit: there is a similar thing apparently. using the tag ### BEGIN INIT INFO. i will use /etc/init.d/skeleton as basis :)
<mr_pouit> ok :)
<tsmithe> howdy motus
<tsmithe> it's the revu time i see
<tsmithe> i'd like to ask for alsa-firmware and alsa-tools NOT to be uploaded
<tsmithe> but i'd love for asoundconf-gtk to be done
<somerville32> ;?
<tsmithe> alsa-firmware has licence issuse atm
<tsmithe> alsa-tools wants the new alsa-firmware for the alsa-firmware-loaders to work properly
<tsmithe> it's only built to supply a warning if it finds old firmwares
<tsmithe> people can ignore the warning
<tsmithe> i'd prefer it if alsa-firmware was available
<tsmithe> (as it's not in the archives now)
<ash211> if anybody would like to try exaile, it needs syncing with debian.. (jono reviewed it at http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=846 )
<ash211> bug 76793
<ash211> bug 76793
<ash211> maybe ubugtu will come alive later
<ash211> oh well
<Ubug2> Malone bug 76793 in Ubuntu "please sync exaile 0.2.6+debian-2 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76793
<joejaxx> looks like the ivman merge was not done
<joejaxx> did anyone use my debdiff?
<bddebian> exaile is already sitting in NEW afaik
<ash211> i was triaging the bug, and though the place to come for that bug was here
<ash211> how can I check what's coming into NEW ?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> wb sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> common packaging mistake session in #ubuntu-classroom now ;)
* ajmitch goes & watches
<bddebian> ash211: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+queue
<ash211> thanks
<bddebian> sistpoty: Are you trying to tell me something? ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> well, only that everyone can help out, just like yesterday ;)
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't see exaile on there though ash211
<ash211> yeah, I wasn't seeing it either
<ash211> well, if you're looking for a bug to close, there's one!
<geser> joejaxx: what the bug # for the ivman merge?
<joejaxx> there is not a bug written for it
<geser> joejaxx: file a bug, attach the debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<sistpoty> arg... the wiki hates me :(
<bddebian> Doh :-(
<ogra> hate it back
<bddebian> heh
<sistpoty> It says I cannot rename my wrongly placed page, because the target page exists already... but if I click on the target page, it says that it doesn't exit... *clueless*
<Burgwork> sistpoty: if you just deleted a page, it take a bit for the page to actually be deleted from the db, it seems
<sistpoty> Burgwork: nope, afaict I didn't delete a page (maybe I accidently didn't create a page as in create but no more action and create the wrong one instead)
* sistpoty is patient with the wiki
<sistpoty> Czessi_away: cjwatson just removed klear from the new queue... so we can upload the newer version
<sistpoty> bddebian: do you want to upload, or shall I?
<coyctecm_> rtorrent crashes everytime I try to open torrent
<coyctecm_> ubuntu edgy
<Adri2000> bug report
<sistpoty> coyctecm_: then please file a bug at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rtorrent
<coyctecm_> sure
<sistpoty> coyctecm_: and state which version you are using ;)
<coyctecm_> now I'm using newiest stable
<coyctecm_> directly from rtorrent site
<sistpoty> coyctecm_: so you didn't install it via apt-get?
<sistpoty> coyctecm_: I guess you should file a bug in the rtorrent bug tracker then...
<coyctecm_> first I did install with apt-get, that version crashes, then I compiled it my self
<coyctecm_> I'll file a bug
<sistpoty> coyctecm_: we can handle bugs for the version in the archive... but we cannot handle ones for self-compiled software (because we have too many bugs ourselves already :(()
<coyctecm_> sure. version from ubuntu edgy universe repos is the version which crashes
<coyctecm_> :)
<coyctecm_> not the newer whch I compiled my self
<coyctecm_> which
<sistpoty> coyctecm_: ah :)
<coyctecm_> i so tired that my english must be horrible :D
<sistpoty> hehe, I guess mine isn't really better ;)
* sistpoty is afk for a few minutes
<coyctecm_> now it's reported.  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/rtorrent/+bug/76812
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76812 in rtorrent "rtorrent crashes when opening torrent..." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<coyctecm_> i'm going to sleep -->  
<bddebian> sistpoty: Go for it, you're DA MAN :-)
<pirast> how can i run two pbuilders; an edgy one and a feisty one and how can I select which one I want to use then?
<pirast> and how can I get the edgy source of a program although i am running feisty?
<rmjb> pirast: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-1be378ab60d3bab23eefabce49cf7df927d46f81
<pirast> rmjb, thanks.. what's about apt-get source of different releases?
<rmjb> umm... I'm not sure, maybe a chroot? or editing sources.list?
<fdoving> you can add more deb-src lines.
<pirast> k thanks
<jdong> rmjb: apt-get source doesn't take -t or /distro, unfortunately
<jdong> rmjb: so you're probably gonna want to bookmark / searchmark packages.ubuntu.com
<jdong> and use dget to fetch the .dsc links :(
<fdoving> you can use apt-get source package=version
<jdong> fdoving: that ain't exactly easy either :D
<fdoving> it does take -t
<fdoving> liar.
<jdong> still involves having a madison-lite database of packages :)
<jdong> it takes -t but doesn't work
<fdoving> apt-get -t source bash
<fdoving> works here.
<jdong> no, as in
<fdoving> your apt sucks then :)
<jdong> apt-get source bash -t dapper
<fdoving> you'll have to add the -t before 'source'
<fdoving> apt-get -t dapper source bash
<fdoving> works for me.
<jdong> really?
<fdoving> I do it this way.
* jdong tries
<fdoving> I have deb-src lines for dapper, edgy and feisty on one box.
<rmjb> jdong: you have the additional entries in your sources.list?
<rmjb> what fdoving saod
<rmjb> said
<jdong> back when I tried it, yes
<jdong> I'm adding it back and attempting again
<jdong> wow, it works now
<jdong> I _SWEAR_ that back in Dapper when I tried this last, it didn't work!
<jdong> else I wouldn't have my silly Sources.gz grokking scripts
* fdoving checks a dapper box.
<fdoving> :)
<jdong> :)
<rmjb> question, need help actually, I have a simple package for which I was advised to split into a binary, library and lib-dev package
<rmjb> before it was all just one binary with everything
<rmjb> and I have that one installed and working now
* fdoving thinks jdong got the order of the switches and the commands wrong the last time.
<fdoving> .. it works on dapper too.
<jdong> fdoving: that might be true
<jdong> the last time I used -t for real (mixing testing / unstable), install didn't care where the -t went
<sistpoty> rmjb: what's your question?
<jdong> I didn't know that -t had to go first
<rmjb> in the bin-only package I'm seeing files that are not showing up when I have the split pacakge set up, i.e. with multiple binaries in control and multiple .install files
<rmjb> why would files be generated in one instance but not the other?
<sistpoty> rmjb: if the three .install files are the same as the one .install file for the binary-only package, it really *should* be identical
<rmjb> sistpoty: this is the bin-only package that needs to be split: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3446
<rmjb> I didn't have an .install file with the bin-only package
<rmjb> the files in question are under /usr/share/doc/<bin-pkg-name> though... are those special files?
<sistpoty> rmjb: did you change the docs file?
<rmjb> I removed it as recommended by dholbach
<rmjb> in the REVU
<theCore> does REVU is working?
<sistpoty> rmjb: what new files are there now?
<sistpoty> theCore: ?
* sistpoty confused *g*
<rmjb> sistpoty: the only changes I've made to the package since dholbach's feedback are removing debian/docs adding two more binary pacakge entries to debian/control and creating 3 .install files
<sistpoty> rmjb: but what files do you see now, which haven't been there before? 
<sistpoty> rmjb: AUTHORS?
<theCore> sistpoty: I uploaded my package about 5 or 6 hours ago, but my package doesn't seem to be processed yet 
<theCore> sistpoty: ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/
<sistpoty> theCore: I'll take a look
<geser> are there any tools to extract debdiffs from bugreports?
<theCore> sistpoty: it's the supertux package
<sistpoty> geser: what do you mean with "extract debdiffs"?
<rmjb> sistpoty: well, the source package is called pmplib, the bin-only package is easypmp, these are some files that exist in the bin-only package:
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/pmplib/COPYING.gz
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/pmplib/README.gz
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/pmplib/ChangeLog
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/pmplib/AUTHORS
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/pmplib/INSTALL.gz
<geser> sistpoty: see bug 76716
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/easypmp
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76716 in om "Please sponsor om upload" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76716
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/easypmp/changelog.gz
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/easypmp/copyright
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/easypmp/README.gz
<rmjb> /usr/share/doc/easypmp/changelog.Debian.gz
<sistpoty> rmjb: some are special, yes ;)
<rmjb> sistpoty: after the split /usr/share/doc/easypmp is not being created it seems
<sistpoty> geser: you can append s.th. like /comment/<number> to display the comment as text, but I don't recall exactly what it has been
<rmjb> sistpoty: should I copy the files from /usr/share/doc/pmplib to /usr/share/doc/easypmp then? and not worry about where those files went to?
<sistpoty> rmjb: did you look through all packages? imho these should be in the first package listed in debian/control
<rmjb> I really don't understand this build process... there's no debian/tmp/usr/share/doc/easypmp, but there's a debian/easypmp/usr/share/doc/easypmp
<rmjb> I guess the files are already there and don't need to be listed in the easypmp.install file then
<sistpoty> theCore: the with which you signed the upload is not in revu key database... have you registered it with your launchpad account and are in the group ubuntu-universe-contributors
<sistpoty> ?
<theCore> sistpoty: I was in ubuntu-universe-contributors, but left the team
<theCore> I left*
<ajmitch> theCore: why did you leave the team, if you still want to upload?
<theCore> the reason is really silly...
<sistpoty> rmjb: changelog.gz e.g. is handled via dh_installchangelogs... some are handled via dh_installdocs even if you don't list them in docs
<sistpoty> rmjb: so the question is, how is dh_installdocs called?
<rmjb> sistpoty: I'm using cdbs
<theCore> I just found Ubuntu Universe Contributors ugly on my lp home page
* theCore ducks
<rmjb> from the output it seems to be called as dh_installdocs -p<package name> for all 3 packages
<sistpoty> rmjb: but cdbs is using debhelper underneath
<bddebian> Later gang
<rmjb> yes
<rmjb> later bddebian
<sistpoty> later bddebian
<theCore> sistpoty: so, I would need to join again?
<sistpoty> theCore: yes, please... otherwise I cannot import your key to revu ;)
<theCore> sistpoty: ok, I am a member of the team again
<sistpoty> rmjb: maybe it's some help if you put export DH_VERBOSE=1 into debian rules (at the beginning). that should give you some insights what the debhelper scripts (called from cdbs) are actually doing
<sistpoty> theCore: ok, I'll resync the keyring and put your package from rejected back to incoming
<rmjb> sistpoty: THAT is what I need, thank you very much
<theCore> sistpoty: thanks
<sistpoty> np rmjb, theCore ;)
<rmjb> sistpoty: things are looking up, another question about the usr/share/doc
<rmjb> sistpoty: should it just be the binary package name? and not the source?
<rmjb> binary package name: libpmp, source package name pmplib
<sistpoty> rmjb: binary package name, though I'd highly advise you not to copy stuff in there yourself, but using docs (dh_installdocs) or examples (dh_installexamples) instead
<sistpoty> rmjb: that way, you needn't change anything if e.g. the library package name changes due to a different soname
<sistpoty> (library binary package name even)
<rmjb> sistpoty: yeah, I'm not copying in myself, but I had usr/share/doc/<source package name> in the <lib binary package>.install file
<rmjb> so I'm removing it
<sistpoty> theCore: your package should show up on revu when the next */10 cron runs
<sistpoty> (minutes)
<theCore> sistpoty: thanks again
<sistpoty> np
<rmjb> does the INSTALL file usually get put into a package, or is it left out?
<sistpoty> rmjb: unless you list it in docs, it gets left out iirc. 
<rmjb> sistpoty: I'll leave it out then... ? I hope that's okay
<sistpoty> rmjb: usually it only contains info necessary to compile the package. and that's not really useful for a binary package (and for the source package, you have it there in the first place)
<rmjb> cool, it's okay
<sistpoty> rmjb: if it contains info useful for the *binary* package though (happens sometimes as well), please include it
<rmjb> nah, it's a standard cut-and-paste INSTALL file
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-22
<tsmithe> crimsun_, are you here?
* ajmitch pokes freenode
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
(sistpoty/#ubuntu-motu) enyc: not quite sure actually... maybe the debian new maintainers guide gives some points or the ubuntu packaging guide could have some infos
<sistpoty> no idea somerville32
<Fujitsu> somerville32, you mean federation.imbrandon.com?
<somerville32> Yup
<enyc> sistpoty: ok... erm... now there is a broken qpsmtpd package in dapper and edgy... probably broke in fiesty too now... what do I do about these different versions etc.?
<enyc> sistpoty: create separate diffs for all of them?
<sistpoty> enyc: first get the fix into feisty ;)
<enyc> sistpoty: errr hrrm ive never done this before etc.
<sistpoty> enyc: then you'd might want to fix edgy then dapper via a sru (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU for details=
* somerville32 hugs Fujitsu
<sistpoty> enyc: I guess we can help ;)
<sistpoty> enyc: are you on feisty already?
<enyc> sistpoty: no
<enyc> sistpoty: have acces to dapper and edgy machines
<somerville32> Don't you guys just love it when you try to ssh into a box when it's ip address has changed? haha
<somerville32> "IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!"
* somerville32 gasps.
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<sistpoty> enyc: hm... being on feisty helps a little bit... but otherwise you can get the sourcepackage from packages.ubuntu.com/src:<packagename>
* Fujitsu complains about unreliable ServerPronto servers.
<sistpoty> enyc: just use dget on the .dsc
<sistpoty> (link)
<enyc> sistpoty: I can download the 3 files for the feisty source...
<enyc> ?dget?
<sistpoty> enyc: same as wget, but it will fetch the three files if you stuff it with a link to a .dsc file
<somerville32> Ugh oh. :/
<sistpoty> enyc: package devscripts has it
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: which breaks on LP, incidently
<somerville32> imbrandon, ping
<enyc> sistpoty: hrrm how do i install dget on edgy?
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: yes, librarians fault 
<Hobbsee> somerville32: what were you wanting?
<sistpoty> enyc: apt-get install devscripts
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I can't login :(
<sistpoty> maybe someone is doing something nasty? :P
<Hobbsee> somerville32: what syntax are you using to log in, and did you fix the ip changed address?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I removed the offending key on line 13! :D
<somerville32> And the syntax is:
<somerville32> ssh federation.imbrandon.com
<Hobbsee> of .ssh/known_hosts presumably
<Hobbsee> you need to use ssh username@federation.imbrandon.com
<somerville32> My username is the same as local, I think
<Hobbsee> as your username on your home system is often different to the username on his machine
<Hobbsee> just try it, anyway
<somerville32> Well.. then I don't know what my username is, haha
<somerville32> Hobbsee, can you find me and see?
<somerville32> *finger
<Hobbsee> trying
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ping?
<Hobbsee> oh, he's changed the passwords with the new machine
<somerville32> Oh :/
* somerville32 sighs.
<Hobbsee> and it's always random each time, so i couldnt guess what it is
<somerville32> I guess I'll just have to do things locally
* somerville32 pushes the Turbo button.
<enyc> sistpoty: right I have the fiesty source 3-files
<Hobbsee> somerville32: where are you?
<enyc> sistpoty: that has _not_ extracted them like "apt-get source" does....
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: was offering shells on his machine - you may want to ask him for one.  he's in perth
<sistpoty> enyc: now run dpkg-source -x *dsc, which will unpack the source package
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Canada.
<Hobbsee> hrm
<enyc> sistpoty: this has been done
<enyc> sistpoty: interestingly it mumbeles about signatute (using edgy machine)
<sistpoty> strange...
<Hobbsee> because you dont have the public key of whoever uploaded it?
<sistpoty> shouldn't be signed at all actually
<Hobbsee> well, it is when uploading
<sistpoty> enyc: now change into the dir, and add a new changelog entry. you can use "dch -i" for it
<enyc> sistpoty: well thats why it mumbles... because its not signed
<sistpoty> enyc: well, ignore that ;)
<geser> sistpoty: the .dsc is signed
<sistpoty> geser: nice, indeed
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Do you do mentorships?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: mentorships?
* Hobbsee wonders if we can change where our email addresses point to
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Oui.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i dont understand what they are - as in, mentoring for packaging or something?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, which email addresses?
<enyc>   * Create /var/run/qpsmtpd in init script
<enyc>     (Ubuntu bug 72602)
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Yeah and sponsoring and stuff
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I want to fast-track to becoming a dev :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: the @ubuntu.com and @kubuntu.org
<sistpoty> enyc: also see if the distribution is still unstable, and if so change it to feisty
<Hobbsee> somerville32: sort of.  people here will answer most questions
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I believe you change your primary LP email, and wait for it to be synced.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: and ubuntu-universe-sponsors is good to subscribe for uploading it
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahh, okay
<Fujitsu> (or request that it be synced)
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Yeah, but I want someone I can bug regularly ;p
<Hobbsee> somerville32: the people here are regular
<sistpoty> enyc: also the version should have an -XubuntuY suffix, so you should change it to 0.32-4ubuntu1
<enyc> sistpoty: debian/qpsmtpd.init seemingly I need to change....
<sistpoty> enyc: I was still with the changelog ;)
* somerville32 tickles Hobbsee 
<enyc> qpsmtpd (0.32-4ubuntu0) feisty; urgency=low
<enyc>  ?
<enyc> yes sorry
<enyc> nano debian/changelog now
<sistpoty> enyc: great!
<enyc> sistpoty: but you suggested -ubuntu1 I wanted -ubuntu0 ;-) erm.. does it matter ?
* Hobbsee tickles somerville32 back
<enyc> sistpoty: also should there be o - there
<sistpoty> enyc: ubuntu1 is better ;)
<enyc> ??
<enyc> hrrm well this looks okay to me!
<sistpoty> enyc: 0.32-4ubuntu1
<Fujitsu> 0.32-4ubuntu1 is the correct versioning scheme.
<Hobbsee> enyc: you wont get it through the reviewers
<enyc> ok i see
<sistpoty> enyc: 0.32-4 is the old debian version, now we append ubuntu (because it's for ubuntu) and an ubuntu version starting with 1
* enyc wonders whever qpsmtpd (0.32-4ubuntu0) feisty; urgency=low
<enyc> eree
<enyc> error
<sistpoty> enyc: so if a newer debian version comes in, that would be 0.32-5 and be higher than the ubuntu version
* enyc wonders why people get muddles with fiesty vs feisty ;-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<enyc> sistpoty: yes I understand... used to seeing these things
<sistpoty> good
<enyc> I see that dch debdiff dget are all part of "devscripts"
<somerville32> Should I use my @ubuntu.com e-mail address now that I have one?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: yeah
<sistpoty> enyc: yes... developers are lazy ;)
<Hobbsee> somerville32: a) makes you look official, and b) gets filtered less
<somerville32> Hobbsee: That'll mean I have to setup a gpg sig and everything though, haha
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> sistpoty: Indeed.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: you need to anyway, for packaging
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> I have one for my gmail account
<sistpoty> btw.: Hobbsee: cool revu trick, if you look at one detail page and are not logged in: just open a new tab and login there, and then reload the old tab
<Hobbsee> yep :)
<Hobbsee> i've been using that :)
<sistpoty> so am I ;)
<Fujitsu> I would use my ubuntu.com one, but the script creating them is buggy, so I use my ubuntu.{org,com}.au instead :)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: it'd be more helpful if i could just login on the same page.  or if it would actually keep my login, if the IP is the same
<somerville32> Whats a good gui front-end for gpg?
<Fujitsu> somerville32, seahorse, but don't use a GUI.
<somerville32> lol
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: it would indeed, and revu2 can do that (but it can do pretty much only do login and not much else)
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: I'm just tooooo lazy ;)
<Hobbsee> sistpoty: ahh, fair enough.  get coding then :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<enyc> sistpoty: anyway im just reading the init script carefully....
<somerville32> Should I have my irc nick in the comment field?
<somerville32> ie. Cody A.W. Somerville (somerville32) <cody-somerville@ubuntu.com>
<enyc> sistpoty: so far as I can tell I only need an entry in qpsmtpd_start() ... im not sure what i the best most "neat" mway to do this... I definitely want to do the mkdir whatnot  afeter any "bail-out"
<enyc> sistpoty: I can use a if ! -d    whatnot to only do the mkdir if the dir does not exist...
<Hobbsee> somerville32: if you like.  i did
<enyc> sistpoty: also there is not environment variable for the /var/run location... not that there neend to be...
<Hobbsee> somerville32: just because i dont tend to use my real name her
<Hobbsee> e
<sistpoty> enyc: ok, it gets a little bit more tricky first, since the package uses a patch system (dpatch) 
<sistpoty> enyc: so before you certainly want to create a nice patch
* Hobbsee breakfasts
<sistpoty> enyc: please install dpatch 
<enyc> sistpoty: err... ok installing dpatch
* somerville32 pants as he tries to generate enough entropy to generate his new keys.
<enyc> edgy/main dpatch 2.0.20 installed
<Fujitsu> somerville32, don't you already have a key!?
<sistpoty> enyc: and then in the top source dir, use dpatch-edit-patch <patchname> (where patchname should be s.th. to match what you are modifying, e.g. fix-init-script)
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Making one for my new e-mail
<somerville32> Am I... not suppose to do that?
<sistpoty> enyc: it should go along the names you can find in debian/patches directory
<Fujitsu> somerville32, silly you... Just create a new ID on the existing one :)
<somerville32> Doh!
<somerville32> Fujitsu, syntax?
<enyc> sistpoty: I see .. doing it this way means the patch will likely be applyable to other versions....
<enyc> sistpoty: rather than just creating a debdiff which only applies to the fiesty version by changing it directly
<enyc> sistpoty: ?
<Fujitsu> somerville32, gpg --edit-key [your key ID here] 
<Fujitsu> Then adduid
<sistpoty> enyc: kind of... you'll end up with a separate patch in debian/patches, that could be applied to different versions
<sistpoty> enyc: but that patch will then end up in the debdiff
<enyc> sistpoty: hrrm what is a "s.th."?
<somerville32> Fujitsu, So I should now have:
<somerville32> [ultimate]  (1)  Cody A.W. Somerville (somerville32) <cody.somerville@gmail.com>
<somerville32> [ unknown]  (2). Cody A.W. Somerville <cody-somerville@ubuntu.com>
<somerville32> right?
<somerville32> :D
<sistpoty> enyc: s.th=something, where did I write this?
<Fujitsu> enyc, that confused me originally. `Something', I believe.
<Fujitsu> somerville32, correct.
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Do I need to re upload to lp?
<enyc> "dpatch-edit-patch init-creates-var-run-qpsmtpd"
<sistpoty> enyc: sounds sane
<Fujitsu> somerville32, gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys [your key id]  will do it, yes.
<enyc> sistpoty: above -- [...] "<patchname> (where patchname should be s.th. to match what"[...] 
<sistpoty> enyc: well, I'm tired and no native speaker ;)
<Fujitsu> You don't need to tell LP about they key again though, just upload it to the server.
<sistpoty> enyc: I'd add the mkdir command directly above the start-stop-daemon call in start to the init-script
<enyc> sistpoty: indeeed...
<sistpoty> enyc: and I guess you'll want mkdir -p <directory>
<enyc> sistpoty: now I either use a if -d  stanza  whatnot or  mkdir -p method...
<sistpoty> enyc: mkdir -p is shorter ;)
<sistpoty> <- lazy as hell
<theCore> Hobbsee: ping
<enyc> sistpoty: ok.. reading some other init scripts... some check with   if ! -d   ... some mkdir -p  lol
<enyc> sistpoty: theres 3 commands actually to create the same permissions as the package installs
<sistpoty> enyc: many ways lead to rom ;)
<sistpoty> +e
<enyc> sistpoty: debian/patches/init-creates-var-run-qpsmtpd.dpatch created
<sistpoty> enyc: good, add this one to debian/patches/00list
<enyc> sistpoty: however
<enyc> sistpoty: I may have done somethin silly...
<sistpoty> enyc: 00list just determines the order in which the patches are applied
<sistpoty> enyc: if these don't overlap, you can use any order
<enyc> sistpoty: I have done "chown qpsmtpd:qpsmtpd" on the dir... but there is a RUNAS user mentiond
<enyc> sistpoty: maybe I sohuld be chown $RUNAS:$RUNAS incase somebody changes the $RUNAS ?
<sistpoty> enyc: sounds sane... you can use dpatch-edit-patch <patchname> again to reedit the present patch
<sistpoty> how many times did the word patch appear in my last msg? *g*
<somerville32> Question: If I don't compile my python code, can I just manually set a python dependency or do I have to use dh-py* scripts and the {python:Depends} thinger?
<enyc>         chown $RUNAS:$RUNAS /var/run/qpsmtpd
<enyc>  hrrm
<enyc> i wonder if is safe to assume a group exists in the same name as the RUNAS user?
<enyc> the debian package installs /var/run/qpsmtpd  user qpsmtpd group qpsmtpd mode 2755
<joejaxx> merges go under wishlist importance?
<enyc> hrrm setgid dir!
* somerville32 pokes Hobbsee
<enyc> wonder why they make it setgid
<enyc> ... is not writable by group anyway!
<Hobbsee> theCore: heya!
<somerville32> Hobbsee: If I don't compile my python code, can I just manually set a python dependency or do I have to use dh-py* scripts and the {python:Depends} thinger?
<zul> Hobbsee needs a good poke of the pointy stick of doom
* Hobbsee attacks zul with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<joejaxx> its Hobbsee! :D
<zul> heh
<joejaxx> haha 
<Hobbsee> somerville32: better to follow python policy, ie the latter
<enyc> sistpoty: see above ;-).. im a little puzziled
<joejaxx> that funniest part is the trademarked trademark
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I can't get it to work though :(
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I'll try again and then I'll get your help
<enyc> sistpoty: i hae no idea why the debian package makes /var/run/qpsmtpd setgid but not group-writable 
<sistpoty> enyc: I guess it's setgid in case new subdirs are created
<sistpoty> enyc: but no real idea atm.
<enyc> sistpoty: in combination with the problem that if somebody then changes RUNAS for some reasen... the script now relies on there being a group in the same name as that user
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> somerville32: okay
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Can you think of a python package that doesn't compile that I can use as an example?
<Fujitsu> Morning, bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> somerville32: supybot maybe?  anything written in python
<joejaxx> hello bddebian 
<theCore> Hobbsee: I got supertux!
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<sistpoty> enyc: init-scripts aren't meant to work as is. if s.o. edits the script one can assume that he/she knows what to do
<Hobbsee> python doesnt compile as such, does it?  like, pre-runtime
<joejaxx> bddebian: :)
<Hobbsee> theCore: yay!  how stable is it?
<enyc> sistpoty: in any case I now have ok
<enyc> sistpoty: ok
<joejaxx> bddebian: my merge bug/debdiff status was changed :D
<theCore> Hobbsee: it's pretty stable
<enyc> sistpoty: in any case I now have the patch I want ... looking into the 00list thing
<somerville32> Hobbsee, It can be compiled into .pyc
<Fujitsu> somerville32, or .pyo
<somerville32> Right
<bddebian> joejaxx: To what? 
<theCore> Hobbsee: at least, it didn't crash 
<sistpoty> enyc: 00list is pretty much self-explanatory ;)
<Hobbsee> theCore: yay :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: would you like to review the package?
<Hobbsee> theCore: sure :)
<joejaxx> bddebian: status: fix commited :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3849
<bddebian> joejaxx: Ah, nice
<enyc> sistpoty: yes... niterseting how some files atre .patch  -- some files are .dpatch -- some files are .patch.dpatch
<joejaxx> bddebian: i should do more
<enyc> sistpoty: anyway added mine to bottom of list
<bddebian> sistpoty: So, we doing merges or more reviews? ;-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: how do i use diffstat?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: or is it zcat?  i've forgotten
<enyc> sistpoty: now I have to use debdiff ?
<Hobbsee> (to check if the orig tarballs are different)
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Should I make a man page for my package if it doesn't have one?
<sistpoty> bddebian: I'm too tired to think straight right now *g*
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Ohh, hmmm  I'm not sure I remember
<bddebian> Give me a sec
<Hobbsee> somerville32: yes
<sistpoty> enyc: first you'll need to create a source package... please recheck your debian/changelog (if you create a patch, it doesn't hurt to mention the patch name in the changelog)
<Hobbsee> somerville32: you should keep going until you get no warnings from lintian/linda, apart from the bad version and distribution, which are debian-specific
<sistpoty> enyc: then do a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa -us -uc 
<enyc> sistpoty: to make tneh source pkg.. i see
<sistpoty> right
<bddebian> Hobbsee: diff -urN foo-old foo-new | diffstat > diffstat.txt
<Hobbsee> bddebian: neat
<Hobbsee> bddebian: presumably i need to convert both to .tar.gz first?
<enyc> sistpoty: iirc this sort of thing needs "build-essential fakeroot"
<sistpoty> enyc: then install it ;)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: I would assume so, or maybe you could just view the contents with tar, not sure about that one
<enyc> sistpoty: already have those...    dpkg-buildpackage is complicated!
<enyc> sistpoty: debian packaging is very powerful....
<Hobbsee> bddebian: right
<bddebian> to merge or review.. That is the question
<sistpoty> enyc: now you should have to .dsc-files, one being the original you downloaded, right?
<sistpoty> (and two .diff.gz's)
<enyc> sistpoty: qpsmtpd_0.32-4ubuntu1.diff.gz
<enyc> sistpoty: its created a .changes file too
<enyc> sistpoty: as well as new .dsc
<enyc> sistpoty: bit leaves the same orig.tar.gv  which makes sense ;-)
<sistpoty> enyc: yes. the .changes file is useful for uploading, so you won't need that for a debdiff
<sistpoty> enyc: so fire off debdiff ;)
<enyc> sistpoty: with both .dsc files as arguments?
<sistpoty> enyc: sure, debdiff will always compare two packages, so it needs to .dsc files
<sistpoty> two
<Hobbsee> theCore: reviewed :)  we may as well update that, i'm not sure how long debian will take
<enyc> sistpoty: I see. now I just need to  > thso to a file and upload to the bug ?
<sistpoty> enyc: yes... :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> theCore: :)
<enyc> sistpoty: is there a naming scheme for .debdiff files?
<theCore> What debian/compat is for? debhelper version?
<bddebian> Yes
<sistpoty> enyc: it's nice to have the package name in it, and to know from and to which version it is... but there isn't a standard really
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i get 
<Hobbsee> supertux_0.3.0.tar.gz |binary
<Hobbsee>  1 file changed
<Hobbsee> theCore: yep
<theCore> ok, thanks bddebian, Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> bddebian: that presumably means...?
<enyc> sistpoty: hrrm ok
<bddebian> Hobbsee: What's in the tarball?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, If I make a few modifications to disable compiling the python code in the Makefile.in provided by upstream, should I just make the mods or is the change (ie. commenting out a few lines) big enough to warrant the use of some sort of patch system?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: sorry?  supertux*.orig.tar.gz, both changed from bz2
<enyc> sistpoty: should i be doing a dpkg-buildpackage -b  and testing my fixed version?  i do not have a fielst machine but im reasonably happy it will likely work on edgy anyway
<Hobbsee> somerville32: anything changing the upstream tarball is.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: so, yes
<sistpoty> enyc: you can use pbuilder to testbuild your package... the bot should know about it
<sistpoty> !pbuilder howto
<ubotu> pbuilder: personal package builder for Debian packages. In component main, is extra. Version 0.155ubuntu3 (edgy), package size 77 kB, installed size 436 kB
<somerville32> !search pbuilder
<ubotu> Found: pbuilder
<sistpoty> ubotu: pbuilder howto, not the package description
<sistpoty> ubotu: please?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about please? - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<somerville32> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<somerville32> !pbuilder howto is <alias> pbuilder
<ubotu> I'll remember that, somerville32
<bddebian> Hobbsee: What files/dirs are inside once you extract it?  Maybe it's just another tarball inside the tarball so only 1 file changed?
<theCore> Hobbsee: should I drop all the version dependencies?
<sistpoty> thx somerville32 and ubotu
<somerville32> !botsnack
<ubotu> Yum!
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Any of you Python experts?
<Hobbsee> theCore: which ones were in ubuntu before?
<somerville32> bddebian: I've been struggling with this python package the last week or so (my first package) - so I might be able to provide some insight.
<theCore> Hobbsee: I was trying to find it out
<Hobbsee> theCore: debdiff will help
<enyc> sistpoty: hrrm my edgy pbuilder does not know howto create a fiesty enviorment
<Fujitsu> enyc, you need to install debootstrap from Feisty.
<Hobbsee> theCore: leave the maintainer field and all that as it is
<theCore> Hobbsee: ok
* Hobbsee wonders why the debian/docs changes
<chillywilly> hi
<Hobbsee> theCore: why the -       dh_installchangelogs ChangeLog?
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<Hobbsee> oh, is it not there anymore
<theCore> Hobbsee: uh? 
<Hobbsee> theCore: you took       dh_installchangelogs ChangeLog out of debian/rules - any reason why?
<theCore> Hobbsee: there isn't a ChangeLog anymore
<Hobbsee> gotcha
<Hobbsee> my debdiff appears not to show that :P
<bddebian> somerville32: Nevermind, thanks, apparently the mighty geser already fixed it :)
<enyc> Fujitsu: coo thatnks... that seem to be working
<Fujitsu> engla, np
<somerville32> tsmithe, ping
<Hobbsee> bddebian: foudn the trick
<Hobbsee> bddebian: untar both tarballs, then do the folders
<bddebian> Ah, yes thx
<bddebian> Damn it's hard to tell what's already been requested to be synced, etc.. :-(
* sistpoty is now off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yep
<theCore> Hobbsee: when should I put versioned dependencies?
<theCore> Hobbsee: and it's correct to just copy the description from Supertux's homepage? 
<Fujitsu> theCore, why are you repackaging it?
<Hobbsee> theCore: you need to for debhelper.  if it doesnt build/work with the lower dependancies.  there's nothing technically *wrong* with them, unless you try to backport it
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: major upstream version change, whcih means a lot of the info is out of date/wrong now
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: like description, build system, etc
<Fujitsu> Ah, that'd do it.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: upstream changed to jam, instead of make
<Fujitsu> Ew.
<Hobbsee> so it'll be painful to merge, i expect, but we'll cope
<Hobbsee> hehe.  i've not seen jam in action
<Fujitsu> Why not wait for Debian?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: selfish reasons
<Fujitsu> Hahah.
<Hobbsee> like, "we've got devs who want to play this"
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :P  :D
<Fujitsu> Frozen-Bubble I can understand, but I've not played SuperTux.
<somerville32> Are patch and unpatch rules called automatically or do I need to add calls in build and clean?
* Hobbsee doesnt have frozen bubble installed, actually
<Hobbsee> somerville32: you need to add it, unless it's using cdbs
<bddebian> FreeLords!!  Of course I need my libparagui first :-(
<Hobbsee> assuming your using patch, of course
<Hobbsee> bddebian: hrm?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: what's freelords?
<Hobbsee> !info freelords feist
<Hobbsee> !info freelords feisty
<ubotu> Package freelords does not exist in edgy
<ubotu> Package freelords does not exist in feisty
<Hobbsee> bah
<bddebian> Not there yet :)  it's a WarLords clone
<rmjb|away> !info iriverter feisty
<ubotu> Package iriverter does not exist in feisty
<rmjb|away> :(
<Hobbsee> bddebian: ahh, whatever that is
<Hobbsee> i didnt think it would be
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Think cheesy WarCraft ;-)
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Fujitsu> gnome-sudoku should be removed, shouldn't it?
<Hobbsee> yes, ksudoku is much better.
<Hobbsee> in fact, perhaps we should just remove all of gnome, as kde is much better.
<Hobbsee> :P
<Fujitsu> @lart Hobbsee
* Hobbsee ducks
<bddebian> hehe
<theCore> Hobbsee: would it be correct to drop some of the old version dependencies?
<somerville32> Gah
<somerville32> This driving me crazy :/
<theCore> Hobbsee: like libsdl1.2-dev (>= 1.2.7+1.2.8cvs20041007-5.2)
<theCore> Hobbsee: I am sure this one isn't correct anymore 
<Hobbsee> theCore: yeah
<Hobbsee> just keep the deps there
<Hobbsee> theCore: it's especially troublesome if they decide to backport
<theCore> Hobbsee: should I explain why I dropped it in the changelog?
<somerville32> What does this mean?:
* theCore is lazy
<somerville32> /bin/sh: Syntax error: end of file unexpected
<somerville32> make: *** [unpatch]  Error 2
<theCore> somerville32: a shell script failed ... 
<Hobbsee> theCore: um...probably dont need to.  say which build deps you added, adn dropped
<Hobbsee> but i dont think you need to talk about the versions
<theCore> Hobbsee: ok
<somerville32> imbrandon: Please e-mail me my new password. 
<somerville32> Welp... I'm going to go for a walk, do some housework, go for another walk, and then get something to eat and then hopefully this build will be done. :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: I'm done (I think)
<Hobbsee> theCore: yay :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: I will upload, as soon it finishes building
<Hobbsee> okay :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: perfect!
* theCore plays SuperTux
<Hobbsee> theCore: yay!
<Hobbsee> theCore: now stop playing, and upload it to REVU dammit :P
<theCore> hehe
* Hobbsee pokes theCore with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
* Hobbsee bets they will want a backport for edgy
<theCore> it works fine on Edgy
<Hobbsee> what'd you build it on?
<Fujitsu> Which version is it?
<Hobbsee> 0.3.0
<theCore> % dput revu supertux_0.3.0-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<theCore> done!
<Hobbsee> :)
<theCore> Hobbsee: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=3849&upid2=3852
<Hobbsee> theCore: looks good
<theCore> Hobbsee: I reincluded the Uploader field in another upload
<Hobbsee> theCore: yep, i saw :)
* Hobbsee testbuilds
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan, long time no "see" :-)
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian 
<Yagisan> bddebian, real life eating all my time
<bddebian> I hear that
<Hobbsee> hey Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee 
<Yagisan> spent yesterday in the Hospitial
<Yagisan> looks like my wife will get reconstructive surgery next year
* somerville32 twiddles his thumbs.
<Yagisan> and for christmass my landlord has broken the lease and served me with a 60 day notice to vacate the property
<Yagisan> at about the same time my wife is expoected to go in for surgery
<Hobbsee> somerville32: stop twiddling :P
<Yagisan> if you see even less of me, you'll know why
<somerville32> Hobbsee: Buy me a new computer then :P
* somerville32 pokes at his 333
<theCore> somerville32: hehe
<Hobbsee> somerville32: ouch.  make imbrandon come back, or ask Lathiat for a shell there
<somerville32> Oh goodie!
<theCore> I had a Pentium 233 for years 
<somerville32> It built :D
<bddebian> Yagisan: :-(
<Yagisan> bddebian, that about sums it up
<somerville32> Hobbsee, It isn't calculating the python dependencies 
<Hobbsee> somerville32: argh.  find someone who knows python and ask them :P
* Hobbsee pokes Fujitsu into doing some merging
<somerville32> Hobbsee: Is it possible that since I'm not compiling that I need to set the dependency on Python manually?
* Fujitsu isn't in the mood for merging... My mother has forced me to ask this girl who she apparently thinks likes me over for dinner.
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Are there any merges left? :)
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i've got no idea
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what's so wrong with that?
<somerville32> Hobbsee: If I upload, will thou advocate?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, she mandated that I ask her over.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i'll probably look at it :P  i'm not good with python stuff
<Hobbsee> theCore: supertux built
<somerville32> Hobbsee, This is my first package and it has caused me so much grief :(
<theCore> \o.
<Hobbsee> :(
<theCore> \o/
<Fujitsu> theCore, who cut off your left arm? Was it Hobbsee?
<theCore> Fujitsu: hehe
<bddebian> haha
<Hobbsee> wasnt me...
<Fujitsu> Guilty!
<somerville32> !revu | somerville32
<ubotu> somerville32: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<somerville32> Hmm..
<somerville32> Whats the link for revu?
<Hobbsee> revu.tauware.de
<Hobbsee> dput revu *.changes
<somerville32> I have revu set as my default
<theCore> somerville32: don't to include the full source
<somerville32> theCore: :S
<theCore> debuild -S -sa
<somerville32> I've uploaded this package 13 times :P
<Hobbsee> -sa *will* include the full source
<somerville32> I got it down pat :D
<Hobbsee> :)
<bddebian> Stop putting crap on REVU, there's already too much!! :-)
* Hobbsee has never bothered making revu default
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i'm about to archive an upload.  and you can review somerville32's package
* Fujitsu decides to do some REVUing.
<theCore> Hobbsee: so, supertux is okay?
<Hobbsee> theCore: yep
* Hobbsee archives
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp supertux_0.3.0-0ubuntu1.dsc: done.
<Hobbsee> Uploading via ftp supertux_0.3.0.orig.tar.gz:      
<Hobbsee> theCore: ^
* theCore dances
<theCore> my first package in the archives
<Fujitsu> theCore, you need to wait for it to pass NEW, though :P
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3855
* Fujitsu looks.
<somerville32> :D
* bddebian has no packages in the archive
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Are you going to look? :)
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i'll let bddebian first
<Hobbsee> the machine that i tend to look on is uploading
<bddebian> Oh sure, like I'm such a "great" reviewer :-(
<TheMuso> supertux is already there in feisty
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, this is a new one.
<TheMuso> oh ok
<TheMuso> Why would that have to go through new then?
* TheMuso hasn't really been following
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: sorry, what has to wait for NEW?
<somerville32> <theCore> my first package in the archives
<somerville32> <Fujitsu> theCore, you need to wait for it to pass NEW, though :P
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yes, I failed to notice it was just an updated version.
<Fujitsu> So, my NEW comment was invalid.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, it's just an updated version.
<somerville32> So, who is currently reviewing my package?
<bddebian> I'm building bouml atm so I will when it's done
<Fujitsu> somerville32, I am... Isn't there a significantly cleaner way of doing patches than the way you've done it?
<somerville32> What do you mean?
<somerville32> It is very clean
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: than with patch?
<Fujitsu> Cleaner than all manually like that.
<somerville32> It is recommended by the packaging guide
<somerville32> And the one patch is super small
<Fujitsu> The packaging guide is wildly mislead, then.
* Hobbsee tends to do them like that
<Hobbsee> well, just dumping one section in clean rule, instead of unpatch
<somerville32> Fujitsu: Don't let that prevent you from advocating :P
<theCore> Fujitsu: how patches should be done?
<theCore> with dpatch?
<Fujitsu> Yes, there's a much cleaner way to do it with dpatch, I'm sure.
<Fujitsu> I think you should just need to include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make, and that will handle the patch/unpatch targets.
<Fujitsu> (you also need a debian/patches/00list)
<somerville32> The current patch system is sufficient
<somerville32> Infact, I wouldn't even see a problem just having the changes in the package diff since they are so small
<Fujitsu> The current patch system is messy and took more work, though.
<theCore> Fujitsu: hmm... I heard dpatch wasn't recommended for Ubuntu to keep the patch lists cleaner for Debian
<somerville32> Fujitsu: Not really... just copy and paste :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it's a standard way of doing things, it's not frowned upon
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: of course, for patching, cdbs rocks more
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, of course.
* somerville32 fidgets.
<Fujitsu> 4 pings in a row, I must be wrong.
<Hobbsee> (dpatch often doesnt let you merge with no conflicts)
<Fujitsu> OK, the mess may stay :P
<bddebian> heh
<somerville32> Huzzah
<Fujitsu> However, the dh_make `Add X here' comments want to be removed.
<somerville32> Where? :P
<Fujitsu> In debian/rules, there are a million of them.
<somerville32> inline comments are important :P
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<somerville32> Ok, I removed the two that existeD :P
<Hobbsee> somerville32: yes, people are picky :P
<somerville32> Sorry, 3
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> Do you think I can get this package uploaded tonight?
* Hobbsee contemplates
<Fujitsu> I'm impressed, pyNeighborhood upstream actually put the required license headers in.
* Hobbsee stomps on imbrandon's fingers
* Hobbsee will just upload from Riddell 
* Hobbsee will just upload from Riddell's machine
<rmjb_> g'night guys
<theCore> ok, I am off for tonight 
<rmjb_> g'day to Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey rmjb_ 
<rmjb_> and Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> if i can remember what the password is...
<theCore> see ya everyone 
<Fujitsu> Bye rmjb_.
<Fujitsu> Bye theCore.
* somerville32 sighs.
<somerville32> This is so frustrating.
<somerville32> Remind me never to package a python package ever again :P
<somerville32> Fujitsu, Do you want me to upload new or do you have more comments?
<Hobbsee> or not, as the password appears to have changed.
* somerville32 explodes.
* somerville32 us uploading changes.
* somerville32 is uploading changes.
* Hobbsee cries
* Hobbsee wants to play supertux!
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Code us a bot to review packages on revu all day long :] 
* Hobbsee does have an irc bot, actually
<bddebian> No shix
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3856
<somerville32> bddebian, Hobbsee, Fujitsu: I uploaded new version. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3856
* somerville32 starts to twitch.
* Hobbsee fights LP
* bddebian picks his nose
<somerville32> Are you guys actually reviewing my package or just giving me lip service? :P
* somerville32 never knew he was so impatient until he started packaging.
<Hobbsee> haha
* somerville32 starts to get the shakes.
<bddebian> somerville32: What puts you ahead of the 1,000 other packages up there? :)
<somerville32> bddebian, Because I'm here bugging you? :P
<somerville32> And because I'm cool.
<somerville32> : )
* Fujitsu was having lunch.
<bddebian> E: pyneighborhood; No manual page for binary pyNeighborhood.
<bddebian> W: pyneighborhood; The command /usr/bin/gksudo /usr/bin/pyneighborhood listed in a menu file does not exist.
<bddebian> W: pyneighborhood; The menu file has subsection net, which is unknown.
<bddebian> W: pyneighborhood; File /usr/share/doc/pyneighborhood/COPYING is considered to be an extra license file.
<bddebian> W: pyneighborhood; File /usr/lib/pyenighborhood/config.py contained in /usr/lib of Architecture: all package.
<somerville32> Where did you get that?
<bddebian> Running linda/lintian on the resulting deb
<somerville32> Whats with the last warning?
<Fujitsu> somerville32, /usr/lib is architecture specific.
<Fujitsu> /usr/share should be used otherwise.
<bddebian> Aye
<somerville32> ...
* somerville32 goes to bed.
<somerville32> Ok, so I'll have to patch the Makefile
<somerville32> Whats with the second to last warning?
<bddebian> I have to extract the package, give me a sec
<Fujitsu> somerville32, COPYING should be a subset of what is in debian/copyright, so isn't necessary.
<Hobbsee> bah, i knew i shouldnt have gone and gotten the bill
<somerville32> So no need to install it?
<Fujitsu> somerville32, correct.
<Hobbsee> s/bill/mail
<somerville32> Third to last warning?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: sorry?
<Fujitsu> somerville32, self explanatory, no?
<somerville32> Yes.
<somerville32> But... net doesn't exist?
<bddebian> debian/menu: section="Apps/net"\
<somerville32> Oh!
<somerville32> capitalize n
<somerville32> What about the first warning?
<somerville32> Just don't provide full path?
<bddebian> Dunno on that one :_(
<bddebian> BTW, you should probably make your python depends >= 2.4 
<bddebian> build-deps that is.  You shouldn't need a python depends
<bddebian>  {python:Depends} should do that for you
<somerville32> But it doesn't
<bddebian> Then something else is broken
<somerville32> And that would be?
<bddebian> Maybe you need to build-dep python-all-dev instead of python?
<bddebian> Why are you using python-support instead of python-central btw?
* somerville32 shrugs.
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> changed to pycentral
<bddebian> Shouldn't matter
<bddebian> You call dh_pysupport but not dh_python?
<somerville32> You don't call dh_python anymore
<bddebian> Since when?
<bddebian> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ap-packaging_tools.html#s-pysupport
<somerville32> There is new python policy
<somerville32> I read it there
<somerville32> The man page says it
<somerville32> and when you build it, it tells you
<bddebian> Hmm, news to me so I'll shut up and go to bed now :-)
* somerville32 could be wrong.
<somerville32> This is my first package remember :P
<Fujitsu> I thought dh_python was still valid...
<bddebian> As could I.  I'm wrong alot it seems :-)
<Fujitsu> (and correct)
* somerville32 shrugs
<somerville32> I'm going to bed too
<somerville32> Maybe I should try an easier package first
<bddebian> You're close man
<somerville32> It is frustrating because it seems like no one can give me the answer
<Fujitsu> Yeah, you're very nearly done.
<somerville32> Yea! :)
<somerville32> Maybe I need to ditch py_support
<somerville32> and just use dh_python
<bddebian> somerville32: Some of us aren't packaging "masters" either :-(
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> Hobbsee, You're the Kubuntu Community Manager?
<TheMuso> somerville32: Afaik the python policy requires that you use either python-support or python-central
<somerville32> Why aren't they working?
<somerville32> It doesn't replace the {python:Depends}
<bddebian> I think because you aren't build-depping python-dev?
<somerville32> Hmm... I'll try it tomorrow
<Hobbsee> somerville32: yes, why?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Do you work with Jono?
<bddebian> Another note: if there is a debian/pycompat file, you must launch dh_python after dh_pysupport, but the recommended way is to remove that file.
<Fujitsu> bddebian, isn't python-dev used for building binaries against python?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: some, yes
<bddebian> Fujitsu: I haven't looked that closely at what he is actually building :-)
* somerville32 wishes Xubuntu had some sort of community manager.
<bddebian> somerville32: Have you seen this page?  http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<somerville32> Yup.
<bddebian> Another note: if there is a debian/pycompat file, you must launch dh_python after dh_pysupport, but the recommended way is to remove that file.
<bddebian> So you were correct
<bddebian> This one too: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPythonFAQ ?
<somerville32> Not sure
<bddebian> OK, my old arse has to get to bed.  Gnight gang
<bddebian> Good luck somerville32
<bddebian> Sorry I'm not more help :-(
<enyc> bah...
<enyc> the pbuilder-create rather screwed things up by setting the keyboard layout and cenfiguring an arkward screenfont!
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee!
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> dholbach: do you know if Riddell is on holidays, by chance?
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> yes he is
<Hobbsee> darn
<dholbach> anything urgent you need of him?
<Hobbsee> was just going to ask about the @kubuntu.org email addresses, and how to move them
<Hobbsee> seeing as that's not done in the same way @ubuntu.com ones are, it seems
<dholbach> oh right
<dholbach> well you could ask in #launchpad if there are any plans to make it like in ubuntu
<Hobbsee> they didnt know
<Hobbsee> hte kubuntu.org addresses are pretty rare - so i wouldnt be surprised if riddell himself has set them up
<dholbach> right :/
<dholbach> but it'd be good, if launchpad could do that
<\sh> moins
<tsmithe> howdy
<xerxas> Hi all 
<xerxas> dholbach,  ? 
<dholbach> hi xerxas
<xerxas> Hi dholbach  
<xerxas> how are you ? 
<dholbach> fine fine - how are you?
<xerxas> fine ! 
<xerxas> dholbach,  what is the status with telepathy ? 
<xerxas> is there still a need for landell / tapioca-sharp ? 
<dholbach> xerxas: what do you want to know?
<dholbach> yeah sure
<xerxas> ok 
<dholbach> it'd be great to have it
<dholbach> the guys from #tapioca-voip are doing great work
<dholbach> i just don't want to dive into mono packaging and leave it somebody else
<xerxas> ok 
<zorglu_> ultra naive question: i would like to explicitly state that a package depends on another, is that in the control file ?
<zorglu_> like adding my package name in the Depends: field ?
<Hobbsee> yes.  better to build depend on hte -dev version of your package, though
<zorglu_> Hobbsee: why -dev is better ?
<Hobbsee> zorglu_: so that it gets included when ./configuring, the libraries tend to change names, etc
<Hobbsee> depends on the package
<zorglu_> ok thanks
<gpocentek> is it OK if I archive old uploads on REVU
<gpocentek> ?
<gpocentek> a lot of packages are commented, and no new package has been uploaded since september/october
<gpocentek> s/a lot of/some
<zorglu_> q. what is the policy when installing a daemon with a /etc/init.d script ? should i start it on install and stop it on deinstall ?
<zorglu_> maybe a suggestion on a package known to be doing the good thing, which i could copy :)
<geser> zorglu_: grep for invoke-rc.d in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<zorglu_> geser: thanks :)
<\sh> sombody interested into reviewing? a nice package for ubuntu servers...sitar - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3857
<Hobbsee> \sh: 
<Hobbsee> \sh: it being you who made it, it should be fine...
<\sh> Hobbsee: I have to follow the rules :)
<Hobbsee> \sh: true.  and you're missing a versioned dep on debhelper - lintian/linda are complaining
<\sh> you see ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: er, you've missed a lot...
<\sh> hmmm...jepp it was the stupid wrong package I've uploaded
<Hobbsee> \sh: there you go.
<Hobbsee> what, you intended to upload something else?
<\sh> no...I have a package with descriptions etc. I uploaded from the wrong place :(
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i thought the lack of descriptions was good
<Hobbsee> you're in what, core?
<dholbach> hum, wasn't there a package in ubuntu/debian already called sitar? \sh: what is sitar?
<\sh> system information at runtime
<\sh> a retrival package...I didn't find it on p.d.o
<\sh> http://sitar.berlios.de
<dholbach> ok
<\sh> hmm..can I just overwrite 0ubuntu1 version with a new src upload on revu?
<\sh> or do I need to increase the version number?
<Hobbsee> \sh: i think you can overwrite it
<Hobbsee> in fact, i'm sur eyou can
<\sh> lets see
<\sh> Hobbsee:5 mins and you can check again ;)
<\sh> food
<Hobbsee> :)
<zorglu_> q. im makeing a package which include a nss library, so /etc/nssswitch.conf has to be modified, any advice on how to do that ?
<zorglu_> an horribly ugly script can add and remove the line, but it will be ugly and error prone...
<zorglu_> i looked at libnss-mdns package and i dont see how it add itself in /etc/nssswitch.conf
<zorglu_> and im wondering if the /etc/nsswitch.conf doesnt come with mdns in it by default :0
<zorglu_> hint ? :)
<lionel> zorglu_: for the libnss- packages I use, you have to edti manualy /etc/nsswitch.conf
<zorglu_> lionel: hmm uncool :)
<lionel> not sure it is a good idea to add them automatically (think if the libnss is not well configured)
<lionel> libnss-ldap displays a debconf warning saying to manually edit /etc/nsswitch.conf
<zorglu_> ok 2 things: 1. it makes it much harder to install 2. mdns doesnt requires to manually edit /etc/nsswitch.conf
<zorglu_> imagine a plain user doing it, not a geek, this is a very hard stuff
<lionel> mdns does not have any configuration I think (never used in fact). It is based on Windows broadcast I think
<lionel> zorglu_: I agree, I just tell you how it is on other packages :)
<zorglu_> :)
<zorglu_> well if i have the choise between automatic installation (even ugly) or manual installation, i clearly go on manual installation
<zorglu_> after that how to provide a automatic installation which is the least ugly
<zorglu_> maybe i should do a script which is automodify the /etc/nsswitch.conf automatically and then see when to call it
<zorglu_> pffffffff my brain is off
<zorglu_> lionel: thanks for your help :)
<lionel> :)
<StevenK> zorglu_: You can't modify /etc/nsswiitch.conf automatically.
<zorglu_> StevenK: why not ?
<StevenK> zorglu_: It's owned by base-files, and Thou Shalt Not Play With Another Packages Conffiles.
<zorglu_> ?
<zorglu_> StevenK: this file is modifiable by the user
<zorglu_> StevenK: what is the difference ?
<StevenK> Because then the user knows it has been done.
<StevenK> And you can only play with it if you're base-files.
<zorglu_> StevenK: sorry i dont understand
<StevenK> zorglu_: That's okay, I'm probably not explaining it very well.
<zorglu_> StevenK: 1. the user can freely modify the file, so it is modifiable
<StevenK> There is a distinction made between the user modifying a file, and a package doing the same thing.
<zorglu_> 2. if the point is making sure that the user know about the modification of nsswitch.conf, i have no trouble about this :)
<zorglu_> i can put the biggest banner you have ever seen :)
<zorglu_> StevenK: definitly a huge disctinction. one is very hard for the user, the other is very easy :)
<StevenK> Secondly, it is a Debian Policy voilation (which we still have to respect in Ubuntu) to modify a conffile belonging to another package.
<zorglu_> StevenK: i dont understand
<zorglu_> the file is modifiable by the user
<azeem> zorglu_: if "the user" == "root", every file is modifiable
<StevenK> Which is entirely seperate to what I'm discussing.
<zorglu_> providing a script to help the user modifying this file is easier for the users
<azeem> it doesn't mean your random mp3 player should modify libc.so.6 for better performance
<zorglu_> azeem: ok lets keep on topic :)
<zorglu_> i want to make it easy for the user to install the stuff <- MY GOAL
<azeem> zorglu_: if you ship a script the admin can execute at their own descretion, that would be fine I guess
<zorglu_> to screw up the system <- NOT MY GOAL :)
<azeem> but not if that script is automatically run by another package
<zorglu_> azeem: ahhhhhhh ok :)
<azeem> which could be deduced from your statement above (but I didn't read scrollback thouroughly)
<zorglu_> azeem: now i understand :) the point is you dont want the script to be launch in the postinst or something
<azeem> yes
<azeem> I don't even know what the underlying problem is, but even putting up a note in the face of the admin saying "run this to get foo modified" would be bad, probably debconf abuse
<azeem> having it in README.Debian (or maybe NEWS.Debian) would be fine
<azeem> well, that's my opinion, anyway
<zorglu_> ok i think i got the idea :)
<zorglu_> 1. it is not advized to modify other files package during the install of a package
<azeem> s/not advized/verboten/
<zorglu_> 2. the user has to know about the modification
<StevenK> \sh: Can I ste^Wborrow the clanlib merge off you?
<zorglu_> 3. it is ok to provide something to ease the modification if the user explictly say yes
<zorglu_> now i have to find out if i modified /etc/nsswitch.conf myself for libnss-mdns :)
<zorglu_> thanks all :)
<\sh> back
<Hobbsee> :)
<\sh> the lintian errors I  can forget...newer standards version etc.
<Hobbsee> true
<giskard> hello *
<cypher1> geser, are you there ?
<\sh> my fellow motu...I wish you all a merry christmas and a happy new year...:)
<geser> cypher1: yes
<cypher1> geser, thanks for catching the doc++ bug
<cypher1> geser, can i convert the same bug to a sync request ?
<cypher1> geser, bug 76479
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76479 in doc++ "Merge doc++ 3.4.10-3.4 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76479
<geser> sure
<geser> just retitle the bug and add the missing info for a sync request
<cypher1> geser, that had been my first work in motu :(
<cypher1> geser, done :)
<zorglu_> q. is there a cmdline command to get the default web browser of the user? once again, i take any hint/pointer etc... to get an answer :)
<geser> cypher1: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources for how sync request should look like
<geser> cypher1: you should mention that it should be synced from "Debian unstable (main)"
<geser> and copy of the new debian/changelog entries since the last ubuntu version
<cypher1> geser, thanks.. i have changed.. can you please have a look at it before i subscribe ubuntu-archive to it
<geser> cypher1: I've ACKed it and subscribed ubuntu-archive
<geser> DeleoperResources is missing that you need an ACK from a MOTU (if you aren't a MOTU)
<geser> you usually subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors for a sync request
<geser> a MOTU ACKs it and subscribes ubuntu-archive
<cypher1> geser, thanks a lot.. do i have to unsubscribe "ubuntu universe sponsors" ?
<cypher1> geser, sorry did not see your message
<geser> cypher1: leave u-u-s subscribed
<bddebian> Heya gang
<cypher1> are we in UpstreamVersionFreeze ?
<ivoks> i doubt that :)
<lionel> cypher1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
<lionel> UVF is on the 8th of February
<cypher1> lionel, thanks
<xerxas> how can I tell in a debian/rules with /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk to not run ./configure but rather autotools.sh ? 
<xerxas> (I'm using cdbs) 
<xerxas> there's seems to be a NOCONFIGURE=1 variable that I can set, but don't know where 
<xerxas> and how 
<azeem> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<azeem> should be explained there I think
<azeem> xerxas: do you want to run autogen.sh first, or can you not run configure after autogen.sh?
<xerxas> I want to run autogen.sh first 
<xerxas> it creates a configure 
<azeem> then probably makebuilddir/foo:: is the right target
<azeem> dunno
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas>  what is /foo ? 
<xerxas> the name of the binary package ? 
<azeem> yes
<xerxas> it's the target to run ./autogen.sh or to set NOCONFIGURE=1 ? 
<azeem> the former
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> the former, is the 1st one ? so autogen.sh ? 
<azeem> yes
<azeem> alternatively, you can run autogen.sh before and put the changes it makes as a patch into debian/patches
<xerxas> ahh , yes, someone already told me that 
<xerxas> ./configure is supposed to generate the same on all systems 
<xerxas> because it's a distribution 
<xerxas> but I need to satisfy my dependencies 
<zul> effing sweet..
<zul> chuck@chucktest:~$ uname -a
<zul> Linux chucktest 2.6.19-xen #1 SMP Fri Dec 22 09:59:43 EST 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
<xerxas> azeem,  thanks you very much 
<xerxas> I'm sticking to run NOCONFIGURE=1 ./autogen.sh in makebuilddir/foo
<azeem> xerxas: does autogen.sh run configure itself?
<xerxas> don't think so 
<xerxas> it generates it 
<xerxas> maybe my target should be 2 lines ?
<xerxas> humm
<xerxas> seems it runs it 
<xerxas> sorry 
<neutrinomass> When a package needs rebuilding to resolve the deps, what can I do as a non-MOTU? (add an entry to the changelog and attach a debdiff? )
<zul> yes
<neutrinomass> say, for example, bug 60801 :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60801 in testdisk "Testdisk depends upon libntfs8 but it isn't present. (AMD64)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60801
<dholbach> siretart: want me to approve your mail to ubuntu-motu@?
<siretart> dholbach: oh, it needs approval? I've seen that we should mail things we upload to ubuntu-motu during the revu days
<siretart> dholbach: is the mail ok at all?
<dholbach> I'll auto-accept mails from siretart@ubuntu.com now
<dholbach> maybe you sent from @tauware.de most of the other time
<sistpoty> hi folks
<siretart> dholbach: right. thanks
<siretart> huhu sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<dholbach> heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
* siretart creates pbuilder-feisty on tiber
<sistpoty> woohooo! great!
<sistpoty> siretart: just saw your comments about bug #76861
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76861 in spampd "[SRU]  spampd 2.30" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76861
<siretart> sistpoty: for the future, it is 'just' creating a symlink in /usr/local/bin, and issuing 'pbuilder-feisty create'
<sistpoty> cool
<siretart> yes, since bash is essential, we don't need an explicit dependency
<sistpoty> siretart: actually I told marc to add the dep on bash (I'm mentoring him)
<siretart> oh
<siretart> :)
<siretart> I don't see the necessity. bash is essential, we need it in any case
<sistpoty> siretart: debian policy 3.5 says otherwise... only essential deps can be omitted
<siretart> bash IS essential
<sistpoty> it is?
<siretart> look at 'apt-cache show bash'
<sistpoty> nice... didn't see this :)
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty, siretart, dholbach
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<siretart> huhu bddebian!!
<siretart> sistpoty: oh, I see that I need to copy a new apt.config as well. hmm
<neutrinomass> is kdesu in kdebase or kdebase-bin ?
<dholbach> hiya bddebian
<siretart> hm. has anyone seen raphink lately?
<sistpoty> not really... 
<siretart> ah, found it. let's test revu-build
<sistpoty> lucas: may I grab osgcal merge from you?
<siretart> lucas: congrats to dam approval, btw :)
<lucas> :-)
<lucas> siretart: yes, go ahead
<lucas> sistpoty: 
<sistpoty> lucas: ok, thx. (I'm out of merges *g*)
<siretart> okay. revu-build works again now!
<siretart> builds in a pbuilder-feisty
<geser> sistpoty: wasn't the last osgcal uploaded by lfittl?
<siretart> need to go to supermarket for the holydays now, bbl - have fun!
<sistpoty> geser: damn, righto... I'm mixing up nicks again *g*
<sistpoty> lfittl: may I merge osgcal?
<Adri2000> anyone knows why this package https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnutls12 has been removed from feisty?
<geser> I assume everyone should use libgnutls13
<Adri2000> yep, that's it
<Adri2000> gnutls12 is also not anymore in debian
<sistpoty> why, just why do ppl. do huge commits directly before they go into christmas holidays? aaargh!
<Adri2000> when uploading a package for a rebuild, the version should be -Xbuild1 or -Xubuntu1?
<sistpoty> Adri2000: -Xbuild1 in case it doesn't have a ubuntu suffix yet
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> so that it will be automatically synced for the next release I believe
<sistpoty> Adri2000: that's the plan ;)
<geser> Adri2000: on which package are working currently?
<ScottK> I have an update to pyspf (the version in both Debian and Ubuntu is two years behind upstream) update that I got some good comments on earlier in the week (thanks Adri2000 and whoever daemon@poleboy.de is).  This is my first Debian package and I was hoping someone could take a look at the revised package and see what else I need to do to get it in shape.  Thanks.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3838
<Adri2000> geser: I only added a comment at bug #76882
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76882 in wput "[UNMETDEPS]  Failed deps, feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76882
<sistpoty> ScottK: will do. btw. daemon@poleboy.de==/me
<geser> Adri2000: already uploaded with -1build1
<ScottK> Ah.  Thanks.  I appreciate your comments earlier in the week (now that I know who to thank).
<Adri2000> geser: ok, you are going to close the bug?
<geser> yes
<Adri2000> cool
<xerxas> dholbach,  can you have a look at that : 
<xerxas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/telepathy/+branch/tapioca-sharp/ubuntu
<xerxas> I think I'm not too far from it being packaged 
<dholbach> xerxas: you'd better ask ajmitch, bhale or slomo
<xerxas> ok 
<dholbach> xerxas: I'm no mono packaging pro
<xerxas> anyway it doesn't work for now 
<xerxas> it want to compile dbus-sharp I think so 
<sistpoty> ScottK: python-spf is still not quite right: type99.py doesn't have a shebang line and the shebang line of spf-query is missing a "!"
<sistpoty> ScottK: maybe you should just install the resulting package and see if you can execute each script that's somewhere in path as is?
<ScottK> Urgh.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Give me a minute and I'll try again.
<ScottK> Is there anything else.  There are a few Lintian warnings, but I don't know enough to know if they are significant.
<sistpoty> ScottK: nothing really serious... maybe you could add the version to the python-support build dependency
<sistpoty> (>= 0.3) 
<sistpoty> ScottK: apart from that, I didn't see other biggies
<ScottK> I'll add that too.
<ScottK> THanks.
<sistpoty> np
<ScottK> Some days it seems copy/paste is to hard for me.
<sistpoty> hehe
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<geser> is someone working on merging sword?
<joejaxx> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXp
<joejaxx> anyone recognize that?
<joejaxx> geser: sword?
* joejaxx looks at the list
<azeem> joejaxx: check for -lXp in /usr/lib/*.la, I'd say
<joejaxx> libXp is there
<joejaxx> ahh
<joejaxx> silly me
* joejaxx goes to right down these build requirements so other people do not have to go through this
<joejaxx> azeem: thanks :)
<siretart> is medelin@gnoia.org around?
<ScottK> For sistpoty or anyone else who knows about packaging Python scripts...  I put the shebang back into type99.py and spf-query.py as above.  They are both executable (I installed the resulting package as suggested).  The problem is that now I get a Lintian error (same error for both files): E: python-spf: python-script-but-no-python-dep ./usr/bin/type99.py.  If that were really true, I don't think calling the scripts direct
<ScottK> Do I need to worry about it?  Suggestions on how I should fix it?
<sistpoty> ScottK: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ should give some hints
<sistpoty> ScottK: I'm just taking a look at iit
<sistpoty> -i
<siretart> are sync requests processed lately?
<sistpoty> siretart: usually done in batches, but the last batch was some time ago iirc
<siretart> okay
<siretart> wow: https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-archive/+subscribedbugs shows 97 bugs
<ScottK> sistpoty - I am looking there, but have not found anything yet
<ScottK> FIgured it out.  It appears the way I was depending on Python in the control file was wrong.
<ScottK> sistpoty - Thanks again for the look.  Revised package uploaded. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3862 I'd appreciate another look.  
* sistpoty looks
<Toadstool> hmm... quick question, does it matter if there are unsupported archs (like kfreebsd-i386) in the Arch: field of a package I want to merge?
<sistpoty> Toadstool: no, doesn't matter... just think from the buildd POV: if myarch then do something else ignore
<Toadstool> oh right... I feel stupid now :)
<Toadstool> thanks sistpoty 
<sistpoty> np
<nemo79> hello sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi nemo79
<nemo79> thanks for all infos.
<sistpoty> you're welcome
<nemo79> I corrected my package to include the modifs asked by you and siretart 
<sistpoty> nemo79: yay, cool. thx
<nemo79> sistpoty: So I have now to wait for a 3th ack, right ?
<sistpoty> nemo79: right
<cypher1> what is the use of "Step Seven" mentioned at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing
<siretart> sistpoty: didn't we lower the requirements to 2 acks?
<sistpoty> siretart: did we do that?
<siretart> oh. hm. 
<siretart> if in doubt, then not ;)
<siretart> I thought so :)
<sistpoty> siretart: can't remember... at least the wiki page would be outdated then ;)
<sistpoty> ScottK: you shouldn't hardcode a dependency to python, but rather use ${python:Depends} for this
<ScottK> OK.  That's what I had before and was getting the error.
<sistpoty> ScottK: however I had some trouble to get it to work myself, I'll look exactly what I changed so that it spit out python, k?
<ScottK> Yes.  Please.
<ScottK> Looking at http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ch-module_packages.html#s-dependencies gave me the idea I should hard code it to python.
<sistpoty> ScottK: I guess it would result in the same thing... but actually python-central/python-support are there to make this easier... *g*
<ScottK> This is my first try at this.  I'd hate to see harder.
<ScottK> sistpoty - Any suggestions on where to go from here?
<sistpoty> ScottK: this is strange... I cannot make dh_pysupport *not* create the python-dependency any longer *g*
<sistpoty> ScottK: from you latest revu upload, I only remove python from the depends and added ${python:Depends}
<sistpoty> ScottK: but if I get it correctly, you shouldn't build-depend on python-all-dev but rather on python, since there doesn't get anything compiled during the build process
<cypher1> UbuntuStats ?? new bot ?
<jdong> oh bow
<zorglu_> NOTE: Bash, as packaged for Debian, does not support using the /dev/tcp and /dev/udp files <- from bash man page. and it does not work on ubuntu either, any idea as of why ?
<jdong> boy*
<jdong> zorglu_: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-devel@lists.debian.org/msg242094.html
<jdong> > > This has been discussed several times [1] [2] , and the outcome was every time
<jdong> > > that this should not be a feature of the shell, but of more specialized
<jdong> > > tools like nc. Use those or recompile your bash.
<zorglu_> thanks :)
<gouki> cypher1: Yes. It will collect logs and parse them to HTML, to create statistics
<jdong> I won't say I agree with the reasoning though :)
<zorglu_> their argument is valid about 'it should not be in bash'. unfortunatly it assume that 'there are other tools' :)
<zorglu_> and nc is not exactly known to work :)
<tsmithe> howdy
<tsmithe> is packaging libraries any different to normal applications?
<zorglu_> i dunno myself but i know the http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation contains a link dedicated to packaging library
<tsmithe> cool
<zorglu_> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<zorglu_> this one to be more precise :)
<tsmithe> danke schoen
<cypher1> Can anyone please review bug 76897 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76897 in firestarter "[Merge Request]  Merge firestarter 1.0.3-1.3 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76897
<ScottK> sistpoty - Thanks.  I'll have a look at those changes and try again.
<sistpoty> cypher1: please list all remaining ubuntu changes in the topmost changelog entry
<giskard> keescook, your upload failed! (aolserver)
<keescook> giskard: yeah... typo.  :(
<cypher1> sistpoty, remaining ubuntu changes == ubuntu changes on top of the new Debian version ?
<sistpoty> cypher1: yes
<sistpoty> cypher1: am I wrong, or is this package merged already?
<sistpoty> cypher1: I am wrong ;)
<cypher1> sistpoty, :)
<sistpoty> all those funny numbers ;)
<tsmithe> and also...
<tsmithe> seeing as "IT'S THE REVU DAYS"
<luisbg> tsmithe... can I pm you?
<tsmithe> could someone revu asoundconf-gtk
<tsmithe> sure thing luisbg 
<cypher1> sistpoty, done.. can you please look at it ? is that ok ?
<sistpoty> cypher1: will take a look
<sistpoty> Czessi: for klear: it won't hit the -changes list, unless it's through new FWIW. however it's strange that you didn't get an "this package is new..." mail
<sistpoty> Czessi: but there it is: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=klear ;)
<sistpoty> cypher1: what did you do now actually?
<cypher1> sistpoty, copied the changes retained from the changelog
<cypher1> sistpoty, copied the changes retained in ubuntu from the changelog
<sistpoty> cypher1: you'll need to list these in your changelog entry, not in the bug report ;)
<sistpoty> cypher1: also please don't copy/paste the entries as is, but rather look what has been done
<cypher1> sistpoty, sorry then i did not understood what you had requested by "please list all remaining ubuntu changes in the topmost changelog entry"
<sistpoty> hehe
<cypher1> sistpoty, sorry now i understood
<cypher1> sistpoty, you want me to change debian/changelog right :)
<sistpoty> cypher1: debian/changelog contains the changes that have been changed in the package. change it :)
<cypher1> sistpoty, on it
<gandalfn> hello, I had a problem, I lost my WIFI connection on upload which break package. I tried to make a dcut but I saw that this one afterwards doesnsupported by NOT RE-EXAMINED. There is to you it another means to purge and push back? 
<gandalfn> oups sorry ! hello, I had a problem, I lost my WIFI connection on upload which break package. I tried to make a dcut but I saw that this one afterwards doesn't supported by REVU. There is to you it another means to purge and push back? 
<sistpoty> gandalfn: revu doesn't support dcut... 
<sistpoty> gandalfn: however if you tell me which package it was, I'll remove that
<gandalfn> i know now , sorry :/ thanks
<gandalfn> it's compiz
<sistpoty> gandalfn: it's gone
<gandalfn> thanks very much
<sistpoty> np
* sistpoty is now afk for a while
<sistpoty> later folks
<bddebian> Later sistpoty
<cypher1> sistpoty has left 
<cypher1> he was reviewing bug 76897
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76897 in firestarter "[Merge Request]  Merge firestarter 1.0.3-1.3 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76897
<cypher1> will it be possible for anyone else to review and tell me whether i have done properly ?
<enyc> hrrm
<enyc> thats odd
<enyc> edgy version of qpsmtpd creates /var/run/qpsmtpd user qpsmtpd group adm
<enyc> wonder why that is
<geser> cypher1: not all former merger mentioned the remaining changes in their changelog entry
<cypher1> geser, but those were either rebuilds or another merge, do i have to mention those ?
<geser> not the merges but the other changes
<cypher1> geser, i did mention the changes done through 1.0.3-1.2ubuntu2, am i missing any other
<geser> yes the changes in 1.0.3-1.2ubuntu1 which aren't fortunately mentioned
<geser> e.g the addtional patches (11_desktop_file 12_firestarter_transparent_icon 13_browser_nonroot)
<geser> or * gksu -> gksudo from 1.0.1-1ubuntu1
<geser> simply go through the debdiff and identify the changelog entries for each remaining change in the debdiff and add it to your changelog entry
<cypher1> geser, but that is not mentioned in the 1.0.3-1.2ubuntu1 merge either
<geser> yes, it was forgotten by the merger
<cypher1> geser, ok i will make the changes.. 
<cypher1> geser, hold on
<geser> this makes it easier for the next merge
<geser> that way the next merges has only to look at your changelog entry instead of the whole changelog
<cypher1> geser, thanks.. i have modified changelog.. can you please look at it ?
<geser> cypher1: much better now
<geser> cypher1: "Rebuild without libhowl0" was a no change rebuild -> doesn't need to be mentioned in your changelog
<geser> and the gksu -> gksudo change was undone later, so doesn't need to be added to the changelog
<cypher1> geser, i thought they removed some Makefile or maybe code to rebuild without libhowl0
<geser> often rebuilds don't have any changes, the new libs are picked up automatically
<cypher1> geser, ok will do the changes now...
<geser> and you only need to mention those changes that are still there
<geser> it happens that some of the ubuntu changes are picked up by debian
<cypher1> geser, changed.. can you please look at it now ?
<cypher1> geser, i do not see any ubuntu changes being picked by debian from the descriptions in changelog..
<geser> this was more generic and may not apply in this case
<cypher1> geser, ok :)
<geser> looks ok now
<cypher1> geser, thanks
<cypher1> geser, what should be my next step now ?
<geser> I will clean up that gksu->gksudo->gksu patching and upload it
<cypher1> geser, cleanup in the code ?
<geser> a little bit: 01_use_gksu.dpatch is changed to use gksudo instead of gksu and 11_desktop_file.dpatch changes it back again from gksudo to gksu
<zorglu_> outof the blue, there is kdesu and gksudo... the naming is not very consistent..
<zorglu_> kdesu/gtksu or kdesudo/gtksudo would seems more consistent. out of the blue stuff
<geser> cypher1: firestarter uploaded
<cypher1> geser, thanks!! :)
<cypher1> geser, how can i see it ? (packages.ubuntu.com does not show it, merges.ubuntu.com still says it is outstanding and i am on edgy )
<geser> it should appear soon on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firestarter/
<geser> it takes some hours till it is on the archive
<geser> and merges.u.c is updated only daily(?)
<geser> cypher1: you can also check the feisty-changes ML
<geser> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2006-December/002784.html
<cypher1> geser, thank you!
<cypher1> geser, got to go 2:10 am.. catch you later
<EvanCarroll> I just had an idea, and I'm willing to do all the work if I can get a thumbs up
<EvanCarroll> I'm wanting to package all of the Abandon ware into multiverse, prefixing every game with abandon- , and having a big mega package abandon-games. or the like
<EvanCarroll> abandonware games*
<dholbach> merry christmas everybody
<dholbach> and a happy new year!
<azeem> guten Rutsch!
<dholbach> Dir auch! :-)
* dholbach hugs azeem
<tsmithe> frohe Weihnachten 
<tsmithe> ;)
<dholbach> tsmithe: Dir auch! :-)
<tsmithe> danke!
<siretart> Frohes Fest! :)
<siretart> ah, too late ;)
<tsmithe> ;)
<sinisterguy> for the Depends line of a package in the control file, what does ${shlibs:Depends} and ${misc:Depends} mean?
<ScottK> I've taken another shot at my pyspf package update.  REVU would be gratly appreciated: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3867
<siretart> ScottK: is this a NEW package, or just an update?
<siretart> ScottK: I think the package description could be a bit more verbose
<tsmithe> could someone review my asoundconf-gtk package?http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3725 please
* siretart looks
<tsmithe> yay!
<ScottK> siretart - pyspf is an update to an existing package Ubuntu takes straight from Debian.  I'm not the Debian maintainer, but the package is very old and the current pyspf has added several files, so the package got more complex.
<siretart> tsmithe: after reading http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/asoundconf-gtk-0612101210/asoundconf-gtk-1.5/README-debian.rules, I wonder why you use CDBS at all
<tsmithe> ok... explain
<tsmithe> i chose cdbs as it was easy for my first ever package, and it wasn't too hard to have those extra lines to override the default behaviour
<sinisterguy> ok, i've figured out most of it, but i'm getting a wierd error. i'm using this control file: http://pastebin.ca/289113 but when i do debuild -us -uc i get this error http://pastebin.ca/289119
<sinisterguy> any suggestions?
<siretart> ScottK: did you talk to gustavo?
<siretart> tsmithe: for that reason, I wouldn't recomment using cdbs for the first package
<tsmithe> siretart, oh - why? it's done now :(
<tsmithe> sinisterguy, line 5 spills over to line 6 it looks like
<ScottK> No.  My theory was to get the update correct here and then point him at Ubuntu.
<siretart> tsmithe: because I see the trouble you have now
<tsmithe> it's no trouble is it?
<tsmithe> i mean, it all works fine
<sinisterguy> tsmithe: thanks
<siretart> well, okay
<siretart> I'm not a friend of cdbs nor of pysupport
<Toadstool> cdbs is evil! I love it :)
<tsmithe> i didn't use cdbs for my next two packages, though
<tsmithe> but i don't want those to be uploaded any time soon (licence issues)
<siretart> no problem. I still have a package which still uses cdbs (londonlaw)
<tsmithe> (well, i want it to be soon, but not in the current state)
<siretart> tsmithe: advocated
<tsmithe> thanks siretart :)
<siretart> ScottK: hm. I'm basically okay with the package, but I really think you should talk to gustavo. I'm sure he'll appreciate help
<sinisterguy> do you guys here handle backported packages as well as regular packages?
<siretart> ScottK: ok, advocated for now
<ScottK> siretart - Thanks.
<bddebian> Later gang
<siretart> yay! I can reboot my machine now without having to resort to an ps/2 keyboard :)
<tsmithe> yay!
<agent> why reboot when you can pull the plug? ;P
<jdong> agent: because we yet to have a fully atomic filesystem to date? ;-)
<jdong> oh yeah, there's that one made by that one wife murderer... what was his name again?
<jdong> :)
<agent> :D
<realist> hrmmm
<agent> i used that fs before years back
<agent> never had problems
<realist> guilty until proven otherwise?
<jdong> agent: I said fully atomic :)
<jdong> agent: that up and coming one that nobody wants in mainline ;-)
<jdong> realist: certainly...
<agent> jdong: sure sure.... ;)
<jdong> actually, I did use that one last year for a while
<jdong> it was great until I merged a buggy mm patchset....
<agent> :D
<jdong> I definitely hope it goes somewhere nice in the future
<jdong> we need a fully atomic filesystem... heck Vista has one now :(
<agent> have gentoo people beta test.... they like that kind of stuff
* jdong was an ex-gentoo users
<jdong> user*
<agent> me too
<jdong> switched in Warty Preview days
<agent> i switched in hoary beta
<agent> was going to switch to debian but decided to try that goofy new distro with a 6mo release cycle :D
<realist> I'm a relative newbie to ubuntu (dapper)
<agent> i have not done a clean install since hoary beta
<agent> fear!
<agent> ;P
<realist> Been using debian since, forever...
<agent> debian is nice....
<agent> but i must say, ubuntu community has changed big time since dapper.... forums are chock full of ex-windows users like nowhere else
<Fujitsu> I switched back to Debian for a month, ending a couple of weeks ago. My first non-Ubuntu since Hoary.
<agent> Fujitsu: did you fresh install or just dist-upgraded (and then downgraded back?)
<agent> jdong: what script is used to quickly convert debian debs to ubuntu?
<agent> jdong: its not your prevu is it?
<Fujitsu> Firstly, going to Sid isn't an upgrade in many cases. Secondly, downgrading is very very risky and likely to get you killed.
<Fujitsu> So no, I installed clean.
<Fujitsu> agent, prevu should do it fine.
<agent> ok
<Fujitsu> (although Debian ones may install OK anyway)
<agent> yeah i know
<agent> :)
<realist> agent: the ex-windows users is partly why I'm hesitant about the ubuntu community (especially the forums)
<realist> The developers on IRC seem fairly clueful though, thankfully :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-23
<sistpoty> hi folks
<agent> realist: yeah.... the forums are no longer a viable source of info on most topics - o well, at least more people are using gnu/linux which is always good - although topics like 'why did they make x program open source - those idiots' are a little banal
<agent> sistpoty: i just realized your nick is not sisypoty :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<agent> sistpoty: oh, and hi ;)
<sistpoty> hi agent ;)
<sistpoty> ScottK: pyspf uploaded
<mdke> anyone around who can give me a quick hand?
<giskard> :)
<mdke> aha ciao
<mdke> I'm working on a patch for yelp. I used cdbs-edit-patch and then made a debdiff. But now I'd like to make some further changes. How do I proceed?
<mdke> I should say that I've lost the source tree I was working on
<sistpoty> mdke: but you still got the debdiff?
<Fujitsu> Has the debdiff been applied to the package in the archive yet?
<giskard> you have a patch! apply it on the original source
<mdke> Fujitsu: no; sistpoty: yes
<mdke> giskard: and then when I make another debdiff, my changes will be in that one too?
<sistpoty> mdke: do as giskard says... get last version and patch -p0 < *debdiff
<mdke> alright, I will try that.
<mdke> thanks all three
<sistpoty> mdke: you'll need to make a new debdiff then from the resulting source package and the orig versoin then ;)
<sistpoty> np
<giskard> mdke, yes the debdiff will be between the original source and the modified one.
<mdke> so, to clarify, do I need to get two copies of the source tree unpacked?
<sistpoty> mdke: you need the orig version unpacked, then you apply the debdiff
<mdke> yep, with you so far
<sistpoty> mdke: that will result in the source tree becoming the new version
<sistpoty> mdke: if you build a source package then (assuming you already added a new changelog entry in your debdiff), you'll get a new .dsc file
<mdke> yeah
<sistpoty> mdke: then you can just debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<mdke> brilliant, thanks
<sistpoty> np
<bddebian> Heya gang
<cypherbios> bddebian: hi :)
<bddebian> Hello cypherbios
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> sistpoty!!
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
<geser> Hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Wow, hi Fujitsu, geser
<sistpoty> sheesh... having to read through a french page again... this is all so french to me :)
<mdke> hi, I'm back with the questions
<mdke> I've now made my debdiff, but it seems to contain files which i didn't touch :(
<mdke> I'll paste it somewhere
<cypherbios> bddebian: when you are busy, could you make me a favor?
<mdke> http://mdke.org/tmp/yelp.diff <-- that was the first one
<cypherbios> bddebian: take a look on my uploaded package on REVU and leave some comment :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3748
<bddebian> cypherbios: When I'm busy? :-)
<mdke> the only files I touched were debian/changelog and stylesheets/toc2html.xsl, any idea what all the other stuff is?
<cypherbios> bddebian: are NOT, sorry :)
<mdke> sistpoty: are you still around?
<sistpoty> mdke: yes... please give me a minute, I just want to finish a revu entry ;)
<mdke> sistpoty: certainly. Hilight me when you're ready
<sistpoty> will do
<Fujitsu> mdke, that's all RCS stuff... It's possible that the Makefile does some odd stuff with it. Did the old debdiff have those files modified as well?
<mdke> Fujitsu: yeah, that's the old debdiff
<Fujitsu> Hm, I think that's OK.
<Fujitsu> It's just rewritten the patch, so there should be no problems.
<sistpoty> mdke: problems solved already?
<mdke> sistpoty: Fujitsu thinks so. I have no clue :)
<mdke> Fujitsu: is it my fault that happened?
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: what did you mean to change actually? maybe that gives some clue ;)
<sistpoty> s/Fujitsu/mdke/
<sistpoty> mdke: and your changelog entry is too wide: it shouldn't be wider than 80 chars
<mdke> sistpoty: ok, I can sort out the CL. I changed the two files I mentioned above
<bddebian> cypherbios: Done :-)
<cypherbios> bddebian: wow, thanks!
<bddebian> cypherbios: Well it FTBFSs for me :-(
<cypherbios> bddebian: let me see :)
<mdke> sistpoty: but the other files I didn't touch, I don't know why they are in the diff
<sistpoty> mdke: not quite sure right now. I'll do a testbuild with these files removed from the diff... maybe the build log gives some insight
<mdke> sistpoty: do you mind? that's very generous of you!
<sistpoty> mdke: no problem ;)
<cypherbios> bddebian: I'm working to correct this now
<bddebian> cypherbios: Cool
<sistpoty> mdke: seems rather related to the fact, that there is a 06_ubuntu_index.diff already, that contains these files
<sistpoty> mdke: so the time stamps of this patch will get updated
<sistpoty> mdke: a few lines in the patch are just identical, and I don't see a reason, why these should be there in the debdiff in the first place
<mdke> sistpoty: I was trying to add to that patch
<sistpoty> mdke: how about using a newer patch instead of one that's already there?
<mdke> I did cdbs-edit-patch debian/patches/06*etc
<sistpoty> mdke: if you want, I can sent you a sanitized debdiff
<mdke> sistpoty: because that patch contains stuff I want to build on top of, and in some cases, modify
<mdke> I understood that cdbs applies the patch, then lets me modify the source tree directly
<sistpoty> mdke: ah, I see... well as written above, the timestamps will get autoupdated (and thus will always be in the diff)
<mdke> sistpoty: it's a nice offer, but I need to know how to do it myself in order to improve on the patch :) it's not quite finished
* Hobbsee waves
<sistpoty> mdke: you can snip a patch in two at the diff -Nru lines (at least in theory)... with a bit of luck it's nothing more than cutting old/new patches in two and deleting from these until they are sane ;)
<sistpoty> hi Hobbsee
<mdke> sistpoty: ok, let me try.
<sistpoty> btw.: did I mention that I hate patch systems yet?
<sistpoty> :P
<mdke> sistpoty: is the patch not sane in the state that i uploaded?
<bddebian> crimsun_!!
<mdke> maybe I can just submit it, and seb will understand what is going on
<crimsun_> 'lo barry
<mdke> it's my first patch after all
<mdke> oh, I need to add a depends on ubuntu-docs, I wonder how he will react to that...
<sistpoty> mdke: I don't know really... however in case you wouldn't want to touch the same files as the 06_ubuntu patch, it would be better to create a new one
<sistpoty> mdke: otherwise I think it should be fine
<mdke> ok
<sistpoty> hi crimsun_
<crimsun_> 'lo stefan
<Fujitsu> It's crimsun!
<sistpoty> omg, I still need to buy christmas presents tomorrow :(
<crimsun_> yes, even on vacation I can't escape the death spiral of alsa bug email
<sistpoty> hehe
* mdke pulls the plug out from crimsun_'s email
<mdke> sistpoty: me too
<sistpoty> I fear that the city will be crowded
<mdke> yep
<mdke> no presents this year!
<sistpoty> hehe, or I just buy a tie and a pair of socks for my dad *g*
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: you around?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: this wouldnt be in your house, would it?  http://www.iftk.com.br/wordpress/xmas-beer-tree
<bddebian> hehe
<sistpoty> rofl
<mdke> ah, small question - when I use dch -i, how can I program it to know my correct email address?
<mdke> also, when doing debuild, for the gnupg key
<crimsun_> pass -e and -k, respectively, with their correct values
<mdke> isn't there some kind of dotfile?
<sistpoty> mdke: DEBEMAIL is one variable, let me look up the other
<sistpoty> mdke: DEBFULLNAME
<mdke> sistpoty: where do I put em?
<Hobbsee> GPGKEY= is another
<Hobbsee> mdke: .bashrc
<sistpoty> Hobbsee: .zshrc :P
<mdke> oh right
<Hobbsee> that too :P
<mdke> i *think* i'm using bashrc
* mdke is not very good at this linux stuff
<Hobbsee> mdke: that's odd.  i thought you were a great debian hacker that is working onto ubuntu?
<mdke> Hobbsee: maybe someone else
<mdke> mdz?
<Hobbsee> nah, not him.
<Hobbsee> oh you're the wiki guy or something?
* Hobbsee is now truly lost :P
<mdke> "the wiki guy"
<bddebian> mjg59?
<Hobbsee> or documentation or something
<Hobbsee> please ignore my brain, it doesnt like doing things early :P
<Hobbsee> no, not him either
* Hobbsee takes her brain out, finds a new one, and puts that in instead
* mdke puts on his "wiki guy" branded hat
<sistpoty> mdke: may I pester you with a wiki problem?
<mdke> sistpoty: sure
<mdke> I can try
<sistpoty> mdke: I still cannot get the page renamed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/PackagingMistakes should be /MOTU/School/PackagingMistakes
<sistpoty> mdke: but the wiki still complains that this page would exist (but it doesn't)
<mdke> oh awesome
<mdke> sistpoty: it must be a bug. The target page originally existed... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingMistakes?action=info
<mdke> I'd suggest doing it manually
<sistpoty> mdke: ok, will do... thx
<mdke> copy the raw text from the source page and dump it into the target page
<sistpoty> that's just like juggling with patches ;)
<mdke> yep
<mdke> our version of the wiki software is pretty ancient, so it has these rubbish moments
<sistpoty> hehe
<Hobbsee> fix it?  :P
<mdke> Hobbsee: the powers that be are working on it
<Hobbsee> mdke: :)
<cypherbios> bddebian: please, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3869
<cypherbios> bddebian: the python-gtk2-dev aren't needed to build the package, it's only needed to install it, and the python-gtk2 already are an dependency
<cypherbios> bddebian: I just commented the line to check for pygtk, because the apt will do it before, when installing the package
<bddebian> OK, after the kids go to bed I'll check it out
<cypherbios> bddebian: thank you :)
<ScottK> Sistpoty - Thanks again for all your help.  It's been an interesting learning experience.  It'll go smoother next time...
<sistpoty> ScottK: thanks for your contribution ;)
<suicideducky> hello?
* Hobbsee waves
<suicideducky> sweet then, i assume i can be heard.
<Hobbsee> yes
<suicideducky> I'M just learning about packaging and was wondering where abouts i would find some small sized source code that i could try packaging on, just to see if it works or not.
<StevenK> Xorg? :-P
<suicideducky> pardon
<StevenK> suicideducky: Never mind, I'm poking fun. :-)
<suicideducky> aha...
<Fujitsu> StevenK, LOL.
<suicideducky> what was that sorry, damn lil X button got in my way
<suicideducky> >:o
<Fujitsu> Reminder to self... Don'
<Fujitsu> *Don't use sed-style lines in normal IM conversations with people who don't know what they are.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hehe
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: should be fairly obvious
<Fujitsu> But there are so few people I talk to who don't understand them... :S
<keescook> heh
<Hobbsee> true
<StevenK> So teach the ones who don't know them.
* bddebian doesn't know sed
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yes, but you understand s/foo/bar/
<bddebian> Oh, aye :-)
<Hobbsee> :)
* StevenK idly notes he has a little bit of beer in his fridge for someone who doesn't really drink beer.
<bddebian> cypherbios: Got it
<jdong> wonderful, someone said my name... time to wear out my pgup key
<StevenK> jdong: /lastlog
<superm1> if an upstream tarball (from SF) has CVS directories in it still, what is the appropriate thing to do about the lintian warnings?
<StevenK> Repack it, if you care enough.
<Fujitsu> superm1, attack upstream.
<superm1> :)
<StevenK> That too.
<superm1> ok
<Fujitsu> Attack upstream with a big nasty hot poker.
<StevenK> Or a big nasty Hobbsee, either way.
<Fujitsu> Same thing.
* StevenK waits for a supplier to call him back to see can finish dealing with this after hours callout
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: How'd you go with attacking that KDE upstream?
<StevenK> Then again, I'm getting paid to IRC at the moment.
* StevenK ponders assuming \sh's answer was 'yes' to his question.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i filed them a bug, i'm not sure anything got done
* sistpoty is off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<cypherbios> bddebian: thank you for the comments on revu, I'm rebuilding the manpage now
<bddebian> NP
<LaserJock> anybody around?
<bddebian> Nope, just us nobody's ;-)
<LaserJock> bddebian!
<bddebian> What's happening LaserJock?
<LaserJock> I just got to my inlaws tonight
<LaserJock> thought I'd get online and check my email
<LaserJock> only have about 230 to go through
<LaserJock> it seems Stefan is the REVU master!
<LaserJock> have we declared the REVU sprint over?
<LaserJock> oh sweet
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you around?
<bddebian> Dunno but yeah he has been an animal :-)
<LaserJock> I was going to write up my REVU Days report but don't want to cut it off to short
<LaserJock> maybe I'll do it tomorrow
<Hobbsee> i dont think dholbach will ever want the sprint over
<Hobbsee> because then people wont be thinking about REVUing
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe I better get back to work then :-)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, probably true.
<LaserJock> well, I'm personally not a big fan of these "Days"
<LaserJock> if they work they're great
<LaserJock> I think this one has been excellent
<LaserJock> I counted 6 NEW packages and 2 updates uploaded
<LaserJock> usually we can go a whole REVU Day without a single upload
<Hobbsee> nice!
<Hobbsee> did you add supertux in that?
<LaserJock> hmm, no
<Hobbsee> (was an update, dumped on revu)
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> so 6 and 3
<LaserJock> and a whole lot of comments/updates
<ScottK> I'll jump in and say that as a new packager I found having a REVU day very helpful.  One, it got me focused on getting a package done by a specific day and then with all the focus on REVUing, I was able to get several iterations of my package done, commented, and corrected in a very short time.  For me it was 3 days from first upload to a package in Feisty.  That's pretty awesome.
<cypherbios> bddebian: I have one question... What I need to do to my manpage (aptoncd.1) be "recognized" when packaging it, something on debian/rules, debian/docs ?
<StevenK> Run dh_installmanpages in debian/rules, and add aptoncd.1 to debian/manpages
<StevenK> Or just read the manual page for dh_installmanpages
<LaserJock> ScottK: yeah, we'd like to have more of that kind of experience
<StevenK> Er, sorry, dh_installman
<cypherbios> StevenK: thank you :)
<StevenK> (dh_installmanpages is the older one. I'll put my walking frame away now.)
<bddebian> Gah, beat me to it :)
<LaserJock> a lot of times we've haven't been able to get the word out and it was only 1 day, so we didn't have a lot of REVU "users" show up I don't think
<LaserJock> -'ve
<LaserJock> I think perhaps sprints are better than days
<bddebian> Probably.  Especially with the TZ differences
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: did you see the latest response to the supertux thread on the forums?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'd rather spend a week focusing on something, being able to come in and out
<LaserJock> it's so easy to miss one day
<ScottK> I agree about more than one day.
<bddebian> Damnit, I'm drawing a blank.. What do I pass to cvs diff?  I thought it was -urN
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the one about "install from my feisty repo"?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, the person reported unmet deps with the feisty one too, but I don't know if they've messed their system up or not
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: they have.  i'm pretty sure
<LaserJock> hmm, somebody proposing feisty-experimental
<Hobbsee> heh
<LaserJock> I wonder how well that would work actually
<LaserJock> basically a 1 week delay
<Hobbsee> well, everyone would enable it anyway
<LaserJock> true
<Hobbsee> becuase feisty's known as not stable
<LaserJock> we'd have to name it feisty-really-really-old-and-stale
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no depedancy errors.  the guy is just smoking crack
<LaserJock> k
* Hobbsee checked with a chroot
<LaserJock> I wonder if they're running edgy or something
<Hobbsee> it works on edgy too
<Hobbsee> if it gets recompiled
<LaserJock> wow, nifty netsplit
<rob> twas
<cypherbios> bddebian: manpage working now, please take a look >  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3870
<luisbg> hey LaserJock, merry christmas btw
<luisbg> =)
<LaserJock> luisbg: hi!
<bddebian> cypherbios: I'm already on it :-)
<bddebian> cypherbios: OK, advocated
<cypherbios> :D
<cypherbios> bddebian: :D wow! thank you!
<bddebian> No, THANK YOU :-)
<cypherbios> ;)
<LaserJock> aptoncd, sweet
<LaserJock> cypherbios: did you write aptoncd?
<cypherbios> LaserJock: yep 
<cypherbios> LaserJock: I'm the developer :)
<LaserJock> cypherbios: cool, I've wanted something like that for a while by not enough to go write it
<LaserJock> cypherbios: does it create an actual repo on the CD?
<cypherbios> LaserJock: yes, me too. We have not similar yet, and definitively we need something like that
<cypherbios> LaserJock: it haves 2 main functions: 1-Create an CD/DVD-repository with the packages downloaded with apt-get (on apt-cache), and 2-Download an entire repository/section
<cypherbios> [Download an repository and put it on an CD/DVD -or how many medias where needed-] 
<LaserJock> how do you then install those? is it just added to sources.list?
<cypherbios> LaserJock: by the GUI of aptoncd, or just 'apt-cdrom add' 
<LaserJock> we're going to be adding a 2nd CD in Edubuntu with Feisty
<LaserJock> it'll be a repo CD
<LaserJock> and then we're going to make it so that when you insert the CD gnome-app-install fires up and lets you pick tasks
<cypherbios> humm, interesting...
<LaserJock> so if the user inserts the CD they don't have to do any apt-cdrom, or even start synaptic
<LaserJock> hopefully in the future it'll be pretty easy to create an add-on CD and have users just pop it in and go
<cypherbios> LaserJock: and is it what I'm trying to do, let the user create your own add-on cds, and backup of your packages... taking the apt anywhere
<LaserJock> yep
<cypherbios> LaserJock: an possible integration with synaptic already has been planed, mvo have contacted me about this
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> ours is a little different
<LaserJock> it will integrate into gnome-app-install and it's supposed to be more like a part of the installation
<LaserJock> cypherbios: the spec is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuOnTwoCDs if you're interested
<cypherbios> LaserJock: humm, cool, I'll check it out
<LaserJock> our trick is to give the user a few choices as to what kinds of software to install
<LaserJock> not individual packages
<cypherbios> LaserJock: like an preseed, an set of packages
<cypherbios> LaserJock: meta-packages will be very useful in this case
<LaserJock> yeah, well probably tasks
<LaserJock> but perhaps metapackages
<LaserJock> that's one of my jobs for Feisty
<LaserJock> get things into main and put together into categories
<cypherbios> an multimedia metapackage would be very pretty thing :)
<cypherbios> LaserJock: aptoncd creates an metapackage with all packages on the media created as dependency, to an easy restore/installation of then all after add the media as apt source
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> mostly I'll be doing science meta-packages to start with since that's what I know and there are quite a few packages to choose from
<cypherbios> oh, is 4:00am here... I need go to sleep, cheers :)
<imbrandon> 
<StevenK> imbrandon: http://www.iftk.com.br/wordpress/xmas-beer-tree
<enyc> meepmeep
* enyc wonders if sistpoty around
<imbrandon> StevenK, zomg that soooooo rocks
<imbrandon> i'm gonna make one of those next year :)
<elkbuntu> the scary thing is, i believe you
<imbrandon> heh
<enyc> meepmeep ;-)
<enyc> I am about to upload this debdiff patch and comments to fix confirmed problem in universe feisty package ;-)
<enyc> Who do I 'assign' the package to ?
<allee> hi, how often runs revu archive queue?  5 min isn't it?  I try to reupload digikam but it complain .dsc already exists.  that after 20 min
<imbrandon> enyc, no one, you never assign a bug to anyone, they assign it to themselfs
<imbrandon> allee, 5 minutes, are you uploading the same version number ?
<imbrandon> ( you might need to delete the *.upload file localy if so )
<allee> imbrandon: yes. Made a stupid mistake
<imbrandon> ahh :)
<allee> imbrandon: .upload is long gone:
<StevenK> imbrandon: Or use dput -f
<imbrandon> ;)
* StevenK idly wonders about borrowing clanlib from \sh.
<imbrandon> enyc, to answer you though you "subscribe" ubuntu-universe-sponsors though
<imbrandon> never assign anyone though
<imbrandon> thats a no no
<siretart> allee: you forgot to sign your digicam upload :)
<siretart> allee: please reupload with signature
<imbrandon> heya siretart 
<siretart> huhu imbrandon :)
<allee> siretart: sure?  dput tells me that sig in good in .dsc and .changes
<enyc> imbrandon: im not sure what you mean about subscribing to ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<siretart> allee: /usr/bin/more told me something else ;)
<imbrandon> enyc, when you view the bug , to the left there is a link that says "subscribe someone else"
<siretart> shopping, bbl
<enyc> imbrandon: anyway I have uploaded to  https://launchpad.net/bugs/72602 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72602 in qpsmtpd "qpsmtpd should create /var/run/qpsmtpd in init.d (/var/run/ is tmpfs)" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<imbrandon> l8tr
<imbrandon> enyc, great now like i said "subscribe someone else" on the left and search for "ubuntu-universe-sponsors"
<enyc> imbrandon: right... nad ubuntu-universe-sponsors is not there ?  only hobbsee@gmail.com
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> something is buggered with the group
<imbrandon> ajmitch or hobbsee will probably have to look at iot
<enyc> better create a bugreport ;-)
<imbrandon> for now choose that one
<enyc> imbrandon: right... ok if you say so
<tsmithe> who is daemon at poleboy.de ?
<suicideducky> hey all, still there?
<enyc> suicideducky: maybe
<suicideducky> enyc: now how would i reply to that?
<enyc> imbrandon: at what point does somebody "nominate for release" ?
<imbrandon> tsmithe, sistopy
<tsmithe> ok
<enyc> suicideducky: ?how would suic reply to ??what?? ?
<enyc> imbrandon: is this something the universe sponsors then look at?
<suicideducky> enyc:  "suicideducky: maybe"
<imbrandon> enyc, yes
<enyc> suicideducky: err... no reply needed ;-)
<suicideducky> =-O
<suicideducky> has anyone in here tried or looked at packaging101 by daniel hollbach?
<suicideducky> [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/OpenWeek-Packaging101] 
<enyc> imbrandon: right... so now I wait to see if imbrandon looks at this ?
<enyc> imbrandon: err.... hobsee even
<imbrandon> enyc, they email is just set incorrectly it will goto the team
<imbrandon> dont worry 
<enyc> imbrandon: ok.... what is that team then?
<enyc> imbrandon: why "sponsors" ?
<imbrandon> enyc, because they will "sponsor" the upload for you
<imbrandon> ( e.g. the patch )
<imbrandon> and review it
<enyc> imbrandon: aaaah I understand ;-)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: heya. 
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: somerville and i need to know what our passwords are for your machine
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i might not have got the accounts back reset yet since i rebuilt the box
<imbrandon> i can do that here in a few
<imbrandon> and will email everyone
<imbrandon> ( its a brand new dual core beast )
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: okay
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> nice :)
<enyc> Hobbsee: something is apparently wrong with "ubuntu-universe-sponsors" group such that "hobbsee@gmail.com" is listed... such that I 'appear' to have assigned bug 72602 to you rather than the sponsors-group
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72602 in qpsmtpd "qpsmtpd should create /var/run/qpsmtpd in init.d (/var/run/ is tmpfs)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72602
<enyc> Hobbsee: assuming you are == hobbsee@gmail.com ;-)
<Hobbsee> enyc: it is me, yes.  subscribe, not assign
<enyc> Hobbsee: oh yes... subscribed indeed ;-)
<Hobbsee> but that mailing address will actually subscribe the sponsors
* Hobbsee has a different address for her "hobbsee" mail
* StevenK ponders flying to the US so he can kill Adam Heath.
<Fujitsu> What did said person do, StevenK?
<StevenK> Write dbs
<Fujitsu> Hahahha
<StevenK> Which clanlib uses, and it broke fatally.
<StevenK> After following the makefile snippets through about, oh, ten levels of indirection, I figured out the problem.
<StevenK> I swear dbs causes SHLVL to reach 3 digits.
<StevenK> Hah! It's working
<StevenK> Friggin' one line patch taking me 25 minutes to sort out, *grumble* *grumble*
* elkbuntu hands StevenK a chill pill
<StevenK> Heh, I'm fine. :-)
<elkbuntu> go sing auld lang syne for me then :
<elkbuntu> i've been called crazy and insane already
<StevenK> :-P
<Hobbsee> go on steve, sing :P
<StevenK> Make me.
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, you're going to do a duet with him?
<StevenK> Bwahaha
<TheMuso> elkbuntu: ROFL
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: nah, i think not.
<elkbuntu> awww
* StevenK bets elkbuntu doesn't want to hear what he usually sings.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, im going to be hearing some really interesting sounds this next week
<StevenK> Oh?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Do you read planet Ubuntu?
<StevenK> Sometimes
<StevenK> IE: When I remember
* Hobbsee hands StevenK an rss feed reader
<StevenK> Ah ha
<DarkMageZ> i wish evolution had rss feed reading power
<StevenK> elkbuntu: You have piked my interest enough to consider it.
<elkbuntu> w00t
* StevenK idly wonders about convincing Hobbsee.
<TheMuso> StevenK! StevenK! StevenK!
<StevenK> TheMuso: And where's your .ogg?
* StevenK smirkls
<TheMuso> Twill be there by Friday.
<StevenK> s/l//
<TheMuso> My voice is is in no singing shape tonight, and I am way from tomorrow till Wednesday.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: dream on
<StevenK> My voice is in no singing shape ever
<StevenK> The key I sing in can and does change over the course of one word. :-(
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Oh?
<TheMuso> Nobody is tone deaf!!
<elkbuntu> StevenK, you sound like mine
<Hobbsee> StevenK: @convincing me
<elkbuntu> TheMuso, it's not about being tone deaf, it's about voice behaving
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I figured.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: dad has a pitch corrector.  never fear
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> does a damn good job, too
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: ??
<TheMuso> Pitch correcter?
<Hobbsee> yep
<TheMuso> Thats cheating.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Send me yours, and I'll send you mine tomorrow? :-)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: depends what it's for
<TheMuso> True.
<elkbuntu> StevenK, i need to redo mine so it's in tune with the snippet
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> the snippet is clearly out of tune to you
<Hobbsee> it just depends on how you look at it
<elkbuntu> its out of time as well
<StevenK> I might get my wife to do it, too.
<StevenK> She can actually sing.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Really?
<StevenK> Yup.
<TheMuso> Had training and all?
* Fujitsu hides.
<StevenK> Oh, nothing like that, she can just hold a tune and stay in key, etc.
<TheMuso> Ah.
<StevenK> Which means she's already two up on me. :-(
<Hobbsee> poor you :P
<elkbuntu> hmm... Fujitsu is hiding from something...
* elkbuntu looks around for the cause
<StevenK> I think it's your blog post. :-P
<suicideducky> hello, can i be heard?
<Adri2000> you can be read
<suicideducky> ok then ill work with that
<suicideducky> im new to packaging and as i was working through a basic packaging tutorial (from ubuntu.com, somewhere to do with MOTUs :)) i typed in debuild -S to build a package. it build fine but at the end it gave me a error of something to do with no gpg key found and it was trying to sign the output or soemthing. what is the gpg key used for?
<suicideducky> something*
<suicideducky> :-/
<mr_pouit> to sign the changes file
<suicideducky> and how do i obtain one?
<mr_pouit> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<suicideducky> thanks :)
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: I believe backport requests should be done by filing a bug in the edgy-backports product, no in the ubuntu package
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: ah.  i subscribed the backport team.  *shrug*
<imbrandon> Adri2000, correct 
<Adri2000> and there is already a bug filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/edgy-backports/+bug/76834
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76834 in edgy-backports "backport supertux" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Hobbsee> ah
<tsmithe> !seen sistpoty
<ubotu> I last saw sistpoty (n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty) 11h 29m 12s ago, quiting: "Reason #312: Dopefish spotted."
<tsmithe> bah
<bddebian> Heya gang
<rmjb_> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya rmjb
<cypherbios> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya cyper
<bddebian> Err cypherbios
<cypherbios> :)
<rmjb_> ./configure --libdir=/usr/lib/<package name> *should* put all the files that would have ended up in /usr/lib into /usr/lib/<package name> right??
<rmjb_> cause that is not happening for me :(
<tsmithe> siretart, i uploaded a new version of asoundconf-gtk in accordance with sistpoty's comments: could you have another look, please? it's at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3876
<tsmithe> thanks - i gotta go now
<cypherbios> bddebian: when an package are uploaded to archives, how it is updated, is still done on REVU? or only an MOTU can keep updating the package on archive?
<geser> cypherbios: only a MOTU can upload to the archive
<geser> but everybody can prepare a debdiff and a MOTU can sponsor the upload
<cypherbios> geser: so I (as non-motu) should keep contact with an motu to update the changes made on my package, right?
<geser> cypherbios: right
<cypherbios> geser: humm, thanks :)
<rmjb> anyone has experience setting configure options when using cdbs? I've tried COMMON_CONFIGURE_FLAGS and DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS and neither seems to take
<Adri2000> rmjb: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --enable-gtk-doc < that works
<mr_pouit> rmjb: I have already used DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS and it worked
<mr_pouit> Adri2000: :D
<Adri2000> :)
<rmjb> I just got it... I had to put the option *after* the include for autotools.mk
<rmjb> also I'm still confused about the := vs = but I have just = and it works
<rmjb> hey jdong
<jdong> hey rmjb
<jdong> wow, azureus is no longer that big a memory hog with sun-java6 :D
<jdong> it's staying around 50-60MB RSS
<rmjb> where'd you get the new jvm?
<jdong> rmjb: built from feisty
<jdong> (prevu)
<rmjb> ok
<jdong> cleanly backports to Edgy
<rmjb> that's the gpl'd one?
<jdong> no
<jdong> no stable release of java is gpl'd yet
<jdong> the next generation java platform is the GPL'd one
<jdong> it's all svn and beta-y right now
<rmjb> java 7??
<jdong> probably
<jdong> the j2me platform is gpl'd already
<jdong> like yesterday I saw that
<rmjb> I thought they wanted the gpl'd java out in time for feisty... 
<jdong> it will be...
<jdong> they promise Q1 07
<jdong> for a stable gpl'd java
<rmjb> that seems like a short time to role out a new version of java, esp since 6 is still new(ish)
<jdong> I know
<jdong> I don't know if it'll meet its deadline
<jdong> wow java6 is faster too
<jdong> with azureus especially
<rmjb> hey jdong I have a backport request for dmraid: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/68294
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68294 in dmraid "Please backport dmraid to edgy - works in feisty" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<jdong> there's no longer that lag opening up new dialogs/windows
<jdong> it feels native if I didn't know better :D
<rmjb> it backports cleanly to edgy and I'm using it on edgy too... it also fixes a nasty bug in edgy
<rmjb> when you get a chance can you take a look?
<jdong> rmjb: I'm not gonna process any more backports until ubuntu-archive clears the current queue of them
<jdong> (which hasn't been done in a few weeks)
<rmjb> oh...
<jdong> otherwise the info just gets stale
<rmjb> I noticed a slowdown on the backport list from you
<rmjb> just thought you were winding down for the holidays :)
<jdong> naw it's more because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/dapper-backports/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.owner=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=
<jdong> and likewise for edgy
<jdong> all around two weeks old :)
<jdong> I'm gonna give -archive a chance to catch up before I snowball more packages
<rmjb> cool
<rmjb> if you want to check out more java6 goodness check out https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/binary-builds.html
<rmjb> it's supposed to be a 3d desktop done in java
<jdong> hehe :)
<jdong> yeah looking glass
<jdong> I used to play around with it
<rmjb> I'm d/ling it now
<imbrandon> rmjb, that works fine on java5 too, they demo'd it for us at UDS
<imbrandon> brb
<LaserJock> morning MOTU people
<jdong> I'd expect it to work on java5
<jdong> but java6 is significantly faster
<rmjb> it looks better (more useful) than compiz, beryl and aero
<jdong> it's not even funny :)
<rmjb> they have ubuntu debs on that page for java6, java3d and looking glass
<LaserJock> rmjb: that Glass stuff?
<rmjb> yeah
<LaserJock> yeah, I was pretty impressed at UDS
<LaserJock> it was pretty blingy but I could see that some of the stuff was actually pretty handy
<LaserJock> stuff like attaching a terminal window to the back of another windows
<rmjb> yeah, I saw a video for it, they actually did useful stuff... not just flaming menus
<LaserJock> so you can flip a window over and have a terminal for that task
<rmjb> though those are cool too
<LaserJock> the panaramic view of the desktop was interesting
<LaserJock> associating places in the background with desktops, etc.
<rmjb> Adri2000 or mr_pouit or anyone else, if I want to put a variable into my DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS how'd I do that? I've got DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS = --libdir=$(prefix)/lib/pmplib but that fails
<rmjb> I've also tried ${prefix} and "\${prefix}/lib/pmplib"
<rmjb> LaserJock: I'll soon see... :)
<jdong> grr, why do I have to find and complain about all the unmounting bugs?
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> jdong: maybe you're the only person that unmounts things :-)
* rmjb never unmounts things
<jdong> oh yeah of course :)
<jdong> apparently everyone else has outgrown USB sticks?
<jdong> or just don't realize that it'll take 45 more seconds after the icon disappears before all the data is actually ON the device ;-)
<LaserJock> I've never seen an unmounting bug, what happens?
<jdong> LaserJock: icon disappears while buffers are still flushing
<jdong> yank out the drive during this time period, poof goes most of your data
<jdong> KDE is bitten all-across by it since 3.5.4
<jdong> GNOME still has one more unmount method (right click nautilus bookmark pane) that doesn't show the dialog
<zorglu_> dunno if it is related, but when one of my usb disk is on sleep and i reboot the box, the shutdown process freeze, and i have to manually switch it off
<jdong> it's a pretty plausible data-loss scenario...
<jdong> typically there's about 20-30s doomsday window with 512MB RAM, USB2.0
<jdong> but worst-case 1GB RAM + USB 1.1 can take in excess of a minute to fully flush
<jdong> hence iowait is colored red on all my system monitoring applets
<zorglu_> ext3 flush quite requently tho
<zorglu_> i dont remember the exact period 
<jdong> that's ext3
<jdong> (5sec, btw)
<jdong> though that's technically metadata flushing
<zorglu_> which fs are you using ?
<jdong> FAT32 thumb drive
<zorglu_> there are no periodic flush on fat32 ?
<jdong> pdflush.
<zorglu_> ok
<jdong> which flushes 0.x% of dirtiness every n centisecs
<jdong> but for copy-a-file-and-unmount usecases, that's never enough to get the job done
<jdong> typically for me there's 15 secs of unmount delay before all the data is flushed
<jdong> I use my USB pendrives primarily to transfer medium-sized files to my slow wireless-linked boxes
<jdong> (1mbit wifi links... no fun for scp)
<LaserJock> hmm, I haven't had a problem with that yet
<jdong> LaserJock: you a GNOME user?
<LaserJock> yeah
<zorglu_> i remember the 'sync && sync && umount' time :)
<LaserJock> mostly
<jdong> yeah, gnome users are pretty safe
<jdong> you get the bouncy unmounting dialog
<jdong> except in once case I just discovered of course
<LaserJock> KDE just loses the icon too fast?
<jdong> LaserJock: immediately the icon is gone
<jdong> LaserJock: I mean instantly. poof. :)
<zorglu_> oh and you say that the user may unplug the disk, wrongly thinking it is safe ?
<jdong> exactly
<jdong> I've made that mistake before
<jdong> so it's not out-of-the-question
<zorglu_> my dapper got a icon option 'safely remove' for usb disk here
<jdong> zorglu_: in Edgy, safely remove immediately destroys the icon
<jdong> while the umount is still active in the background
<jdong> in Dapper, KDE had a progress dialog pop up
<jdong> that said Unmounting... until it was all synced
<jdong> but that disappeared in Edgy
<rmjb> okay maybe I unmount sometimes... and when I do it by going to My Computer and right clicking then Eject it writes then ejects
<jdong> (bug 61946)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61946 in kdebase "[Edgy Data Loss]  umount progress dialog missing" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61946
<zorglu_> really ? here on dapper, 'safely remove' pop up a dialog 'need to be root' without proposing to put the root passwd
<jdong> zorglu_: then your setup is weird :)
<rmjb> other times it doesn't write then eject, it just goes away fast
<zorglu_> :)
<jdong> it defnitely worked perfectly in Dapper
<jdong> rmjb: GNOME handles it gracefully
<jdong> rmjb: see bug 32643
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 32643 in nautilus "unmounting of removable drives should show a progress dialog" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32643
<jdong> I complained about it in Feburary
<jdong> actually a bit before then
<jdong> and that's how it got fixed in GNOME
<LaserJock> ok, did my blogging for today
<LaserJock> thank goodness my inlaws have cable
<PriceChild> hehe LaserJock i know what you look like :P
<LaserJock> I know what you look like too ;-)
<PriceChild> :)
<neutrinomass> Several packages depend on iceweasel but it's not in feisty... should I request a sync ?
<LaserJock> hmm, do they have a hard dependency?
<neutrinomass> And does it make sense to file -build1 changelogs to packages that need rebuilding or will that be done automatically at some point anyway ?
<LaserJock> I would think they would do a iceweasel | firefox or something
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: if it's something that rarely gets rebuilt then sure
<geser> neutrinomass: I doubt iceweasel will get synced
<neutrinomass> Depends: iceweasel | iceape-browser
<LaserJock> bah
<neutrinomass> (for mozilla-diggler )
<LaserJock> we're going to have to merge those I think
<neutrinomass> LaserJock: Cool thanks ... I wasn't sure whether there's any automatic rebuilding going on
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> generally once it's succesfully built that's it
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: you might ask -devel if iceweasel is going to go into Universe or not
<neutrinomass> LaserJock: There's about 10 mozilla-* packages that depend that way ...
* neutrinomass will
<LaserJock> yeah, it's certainly be easier maintainence wise, but I don't know if that's really the solution
<LaserJock> because people will already have firefox installed
<LaserJock> so those packages will basically make them install 2 versions of firefox
<LaserJock> which is nasty to do
<neutrinomass> true ... Do you know if there's a reason they chose not to depend on firefox? It doesn't really make sense (other than wanting to push iceweasel)
<LaserJock> in that light, I think it would probably be better for our users to have a | firefox
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: they have no firefox package I don't think
<neutrinomass> True... they moved it to non-free or whatnot so they wouldn't want to move everything there
<neutrinomass> LaserJock: So should I file bugs and add a | firefox ?
<LaserJock> in my opinion yes, but it might be better to ask the higher up how we want to handle it because it does effect a decent number of packages
<LaserJock> ok, I'm off
<LaserJock> cya all
<Adri2000> geser: ping, could you upload a few things for me now? 2 new upstream releases
<geser> Adri2000: which ones?
<Adri2000> the packages are libdjconsole and djplay (I'm the original maintainer in ubuntu for both), djplay uses libdjconsole, so the best would be to upload first libdjconsole, and once it is built, upload djplay
<Adri2000> everything is here: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/
<Adri2000> geser: ^
<geser> Adri2000: according to /etc/udev/rules.d/README your udev file in libdjconsole should be 45-... instead of 40-...
<Adri2000> geser: hmm ok, and I should change that in the package but upstream can keep the 40-?
<geser> yes
<Adri2000> ok, I'm fixing that
<Adri2000> building...
<Adri2000> debian/tmp/etc/udev/rules.d/40-hpdjconsole.rules /etc/udev.d/45-hpdjconsole.rules
<Adri2000> ./etc/udev.d/45-hpdjconsole.rules/40-hpdjconsole.rules
<Adri2000> :-/
<Adri2000> I can't do that in a .install maybe?
<geser> I don't know
<Adri2000> I will do that in debian/rules
<Adri2000> ./etc/udev/rules.d/45-hpdjconsole.rules
<Adri2000> better :)
<geser> yes :)
<Adri2000> geser: thanks for this review :p updated diff.gz and dsc at the same url :)
<Adri2000> geser: it seems ok now?
<geser> yes, I already uploaded libdjconsole and I'm waiting now on the accepted mail
<geser> the mail is there
<Adri2000> yeah, thank you!
<geser> Adri2000: djplay looks ok, I will upload it once the new libdjconsole is on the archive
<Adri2000> okay :)
<tsmithe> geser, are you free for revu'age?
<geser> tsmithe: I don't have an account on revu and can't comment there
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> no problemo
<siretart> tsmithe: any idea where this comes from? http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/asoundconf-gtk-0612231155/asoundconf-gtk_1.5-1ubuntu4_all.lintian
<tsmithe> no
<tsmithe> i haven't changed the file since before
<tsmithe> that's really weird
<tsmithe> and it works fine on my system
<tsmithe> putting it in System/Preferences
<fdoving> lintian is refering to the debian-menu thing.
<tsmithe> i know
<tsmithe> i mean - i haven't changed the file, and it works on my system...
<tsmithe> what to do?
<fdoving> tsmithe: even if it works it's not given it's done the right way.
<tsmithe> i can see that
<tsmithe> but, as i said, what to do?
<fdoving> tsmithe: first, debian menu requires a .xpm icon, you don't provide that. second, you need to put it in an already existing section, not creating your own like you do.
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> but - it's not in a different section on my machine... i'll do as you say, but i find it strange
<fdoving> do you even use the debian menu system? 
<fdoving> do you have the package 'menu' installed? 
<tsmithe> nope ... i understand the problem now
<tsmithe> i did
<tsmithe> but not any more
<fdoving> 'man menufile'
<tsmithe> thanks
<tsmithe> :)
<fdoving> you can simply remove the debian/*.menu file to escape the simplest way.
<tsmithe> i think i'll just do that
<tsmithe> i thought it was for a freedesktop-esque file
<tsmithe> well, i've made another upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3882
<tsmithe> if anyone would be so kind as to revu it
<Adri2000> geser: I have another upload (just a debdiff) ready, if you are not too tired of sponsoring :P
<geser> Adri2000: ok
<Adri2000> bug 76996
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 76996 in amule "better icon for amule" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76996
<mato> Hello. Could the REVU admin to re-sync the "REVU uploaders keyring" please?
<mato> Hi Spacey. Do you have time? I would like to ask something concerning uploading new Ubuntu packages.
<spacey> mato: i'm afraid i cannot help you with that. i'm not a package maintainter
<Adri2000> matid: if it's just a question, ask
<Adri2000> s/matid/mato/
<mato> I have created several packages for personal use for software not available in Ubuntu (yet). I would like to upload it to REVU, so that perhaps someone will be willing to review them.
<mato> I am registered at Launchpad.
<Adri2000> ok, you just need a keyring sync
<mato> The manual reads that some of the admins has to "re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring". Is here some such person?
<mato> I am not sure precisely what it is, but I guess so.
<Adri2000> ping ajmitch siretart for a keyring sync
<mato> thanks
<tsmithe> in feisty universe, the compiz packages are from fd.o right?
<siretart> Adri2000: done
* jdong tries building firefox out of fiesty for fun
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-24
<jdong> hi, Fujitsu :)
<jdong> guess what I'm prodding you about today? ;-)
<Fujitsu> Hi jdong... Oh dear, I've forgotten about that. I shall do it NOW!
* Fujitsu locates.
<Fujitsu> Sorry about taking such a long time :(
<jdong> lol :)
<jdong> don't sweat it
<jdong> java6 rocks btw, it actually makes azureus feel natively fast :)
<Fujitsu> java6?
<jdong> and ram usage stays under 60MB now
<jdong> (sun-java6-jre)
<jdong> aka Sun Java 1.6.0
<jdong> just uploaded to Fiesty today
<Fujitsu> Ooh.
<Fujitsu> Nice.
<Fujitsu> Shiny.
<jdong> yes shiny indeed
<Fujitsu> So this is needed for both Dapper and Edgy?
<tsmithe> oooh
<tsmithe> java6!
<tsmithe> is it in universe yet?
<Fujitsu> I don't see java6 in the archive... Is it still in NEW?
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<LaserJock> ajmitch: around?
<jdong> Fujitsu / tsmithe: it's there. source pkg sun-java6
<Fujitsu> Yeah, but the binaries haven't been published yet...
<tsmithe> cool: universe?
<Fujitsu> Or weren't 30 minutes ago.
<jdong> that may be
<jdong> I built them from source for edgy anyway :D
<Fujitsu> azureus seems to be doing a grand total of... nothing when I try to start it.
<Fujitsu> (with java5 or gcj)
<Fujitsu> tsmithe, they're non-free, so I doubt it.
<tsmithe> but the sources!
<Fujitsu> It hath not been GPLed yet.
<tsmithe> oh dear
<tsmithe> i thought it had
<tsmithe> sources are on the site, no?
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> They have released the sources of phoneME (aka. J2ME), but not J2SE yet.
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> darn
<tsmithe> anyone except siretart up for revu'age?
* Fujitsu shudders at the new azureus version number:
<Fujitsu> 2.5.0.0repack1-0ubuntu1~proposed1
<LaserJock> haha
<jdong> Fujitsu: did you fix azureus yet?
<jdong> Fujitsu: maybe that's why it isn't working :)
<Fujitsu> It's test-building...
<jdong> lol
<jdong> I was commenting on your earlier comment of azureus doing diddly when launching :)
<Fujitsu> It's strange, it aborts on Feisty with Sun Java (5 or 6)
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<jdong> that kinda was the original problem ;-)
<Fujitsu> Yet gij works fine...
<jdong> that's another pseudo-bug
<jdong> I've noticed...
<jdong> some gij-compiled java things only execute with gij
<jdong> yay for open source proprietary-ness :D
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<LaserJock> hhmm, I'm not a big fan of SRU processing
<LaserJock> how am I supposed to see the status of packages in -proposed
<Fujitsu> LaserJock, 144 REVU uploads? I find that unlikely.
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> some people upload like crazy
<Fujitsu> There were actually that many!?
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<Fujitsu> Impressive.
<LaserJock> 144 uploads *to* REVU
<LaserJock> bbiab, dinner
<tenshu> yeah the motu school worked pretty good, the ubuntu-fr-classroom project was a big succes
<tenshu> thanks to gauvain
<Fujitsu> Wow, we're up to date with science merges!
<tenshu> grats
<Fujitsu> Hm, except xmakemol... Darn.
<tenshu> good night for those around GMT+1
<tenshu> bye
<grimeboy> Since icecast1 is deprecated to the extent that it doesn't receive bugfixes and is a bloated [self censorship]  should it not be removed from the repos?
<grimeboy> What with icecast2 being fairly mature and much more simple.
<Fujitsu> Is icecast1 the package name?
<grimeboy> No icecast-server
<grimeboy> icecast-server should be replace with icecast2
<Fujitsu> icecast-server is still being actively maintained in Debian. They haven't seen fit to remove it...
<grimeboy> So should I go to #debian-dev
<grimeboy> ?
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> Debian doesn't feel it is appropriate to remove, so it's unlikely to be ideal to remove it from Ubuntu either.
<grimeboy> Um, or they haven't noticed that it is terrible and obsolete. This is coming from icecast developers.
<grimeboy> (Not me)
<grimeboy> I talked to one
<Fujitsu> Autosync is switched off now, isn't it?
<Q-FUNK> anybody who also happens to be a DD available to sponsor an upload?
<Fujitsu> crimsun: around?
<crimsun> hi
<crimsun> (sorry, I have an email backlog of several thousand unread)
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<Fujitsu> Well, just wondering about that xmakemol merge (it's the only actually outstanding science one). Why was it FTBFSing when building the GL version?
<crimsun> GLw 
<crimsun> Debian ships an addition -dev package as part of the mesa source that Ubuntu doesn't
<crimsun> additional
<crimsun> cjwatson mentioned that it was due to lesstif not being in main, among a couple other issues
<Fujitsu> Ah, terrific... I really don't like it how we've dropped features from a number of libraries because of things being in universe.
<crimsun> yeah, it complicates things :/
<Fujitsu> I've come across a few over the past couple of weeks :(
<Fujitsu> Are you likely to remerge that in the near future, or can I steal it?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: please feel free to take it
<crimsun> I'll be in Hong Kong soon and away from Ubuntu until the new year#
<Fujitsu> OK :)
* StevenK kicks Serpentine.
<Fujitsu> Why, StevenK?
<StevenK> Because I add a bunch of files to burn, and it says the cache directory needs more space.
<StevenK> And k3b refuses to deal with mp3 and wma
<joejaxx> StevenK: 
<joejaxx> there is a package you have to install 
<joejaxx> libk3b2-mp3 - The KDE cd burning application library - MP3 decoder
<No1Viking> I have problems getting my PC, with Kubuntu, connected to my Wireless LAN. I know that it works without problems in Gnome. When trying to set WEP key and Hex it seems it does not save the data and I can't connect. Anywhere else I can put that data so it's permanent, and working, in the system? 
<minghua> No1Viking: support questions should be asked on #ubuntu channel, thanks
<Hobbsee> hey minghua 
<minghua> hello Sarah
<enyc> I really _would_ like to be pointed in the right direction for debugging help with non-universe packages....  -motu is not approprioate as this problem is a non-universe package -- https://launchpad.net/bugs/70098
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70098 in cdrtools "mkisofs doesn't properly convert lower case filenames to upper case" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<Amaranth> enyc: You could diff the two versions and see what changed
<Amaranth> afaik mkisofs isn't a very actively developed thing so the diff shouldn't be big
<tsmithe> jdong, so you say sun-java6 is in feisty?
<enyc> Amaranth: diff dapper and edgy versions?
<enyc> Amaranth: usinf debdiff on the .dsc along with the .diff.gz and the .tar.gz (may share the .tar.gz if same source ver)
<Amaranth> yeah
<enyc> Amaranth: ok ive not done this ot compare things... only to make my diff for the patch I have uploaded (https://launchpad.net/bugs/70098)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70098 in cdrtools "mkisofs doesn't properly convert lower case filenames to upper case" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<enyc> err
<enyc> arcgh
<enyc> I meant https://launchpad.net/bugs/72602 ;-) -- is wher ihave built a debdiff -- have to get used to reading them
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72602 in qpsmtpd "qpsmtpd should create /var/run/qpsmtpd in init.d (/var/run/ is tmpfs)" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<enyc> Amaranth: I have a 1.7mb debdiff ;-)
<Amaranth> _ouch_
<Amaranth> !info mkisofs dapper
<ubotu> mkisofs: Creates ISO-9660 CD-ROM filesystem images. In component main, is optional. Version 4:2.01+01a01-4ubuntu6 (dapper), package size 508 kB, installed size 1280 kB
<Amaranth> !info mkisofs edgy
<ubotu> mkisofs: Creates ISO-9660 CD-ROM filesystem images. In component main, is optional. Version 4:2.01+01a03-5ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 533 kB, installed size 1316 kB
<Amaranth> 2 alpha releases, a debian version, and 2 ubuntu versions difference
<enyc> I see
<enyc> I understand
<Amaranth> doesn't sound like it'd be such a large change
<enyc> Amaranth: bah! how annoying!
<enyc> Amaranth: its such a bizarre regression... of one of the simplest things mkisofs is supposed to do as part of creating a simple iso level 1
<enyc> Amaranth: and Im convintced its not a different default setting... ive really read all the command-help etc. bah!
<enyc> Amaranth: erm ... do you think I sohuld start removing patches in the edgy version or try that debian source version with  ubuntu patches?
<enyc> Amaranth: err...  without ubuntu patches
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<enyc> Amaranth: oh well... thanks for trynig to help ;-)
<enyc> Amaranth: interestingly debian now uses 'genisoimage' fork of mkisofs!  also a new cdrocording program (wodim)
<Amaranth> enyc: so does feisty
<Adri2000> !seen geser
<ubotu> I last saw geser (n=michael@dialin108173.justdsl.de) 12h 28m 24s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<Adri2000> heya geser :)
<Hobbsee> hey Adri2000 
<Adri2000> hi Hobbsee 
<Adri2000> geser: libdjconsole 0.1.2 is in the archive http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/libd/libdjconsole/
<geser> Hi Adri2000 
<Adri2000> geser: can you upload djplay? :)
<geser> yes
<Adri2000> thanks
<geser> Adri2000: uploaded
<Adri2000> great
<Adri2000> ajmitch: how come you are subscribed to my wiki page? :p
<imbrandon> Adri2000, ajmitch is subscribed to them all
<Adri2000> all the wiki? :-|
<imbrandon> yes
<Adri2000> whow
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: has an insane inbox
<Yagisan> I'll bet
<elkbuntu> lets face it, ajmitch is just insane, period.
<Hobbsee> true that
<Hobbsee> he did come to meet me, so he has to be pretty insane!
<elkbuntu> hehe
<Yagisan> er, I've met you too Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: true.  but you put up with me for less time, so probably arent so insane
<elkbuntu> sorry Yagisan, you've just qualified yourself for insanity as well
<Yagisan> woot
* Hobbsee decides that she really doesnt want to help people out tonight, particularly ones that she cant understand
<elkbuntu> merry christmas :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<chillywilly> barry has forked himself off ;)
<bddebian2> Heh, Merry Christmas chillywilly! :-)
<tenshu> yeah my first package has been uploaded in Feisty ! Best Xmas present so far :D
<bddebian> Congrats and Merry Christmas :)
<tenshu> =)
<tenshu> merry christmas too
<nixternal> bddebian: boo
<bddebian> Heya nixternal
<joejaxx> is there a way to mirror the ubuntu archive other than debmirror?
<ivoks> so... fwiw, ningi is released :)
<lupine_85> joejaxx: wget if you're feeling brave?
<cypherbios> joejaxx: aptoncd does it and put them all on an CD/DVD
<joejaxx> lupine_85: lol
<joejaxx> cypherbios: i actually want it on my hard drive
<cypherbios> joejaxx: right, aptoncd does it
<joejaxx> i thought you said cd/dvd
<cypherbios> joejaxx: It's going for feisty http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3870
<cypherbios> joejaxx: Yep, but before generate the .iso it'll to your hard drive
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> does it have resume like debmirror or wget -c?
<cypherbios> joejaxx: yes, experimentally does :)
<cypherbios> joejaxx: try building from source on revu http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3870, or at the subversion repository
<cypherbios> joejaxx: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/aptoncd/0.1 aptoncd-0.1
<cypherbios> joejaxx: svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/aptoncd/0.1 aptoncd-0.1 :)
<joejaxx> lol experimentally :)
<joejaxx> cypherbios: i will but later when my laptop will have a chance to touch the desk
<cypherbios> :)
<cypherbios> joejaxx: the download repository is experimental, and under development yet, but already woks, principally if you will not put it on an media (but will keep on HD)
<joejaxx> cypherbios: oh ok :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-17
 * cheguevara kindly asks for review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kcoloredit-kde4
<imbrandon> cheguevara: have you looked at the lintian and linda warnings ?
<cheguevara> yeah
<cheguevara> all bogus
<imbrandon> newer-standards-version 3.7.3 (current is 3.7.2)  <-- isnt exactly bogus
<imbrandon> i havent verified the rest
<imbrandon> ahh wait
<cheguevara> the server is wrong :P
<imbrandon> i read that backwords
<imbrandon> right i thought you had .2
<cheguevara> :)
<imbrandon> is there a reason you have cdbs makefiles in the debian/tree ?
<cheguevara> its how all kde4 packages are I believe
<cheguevara> Riddell would know better
<imbrandon> no, *some* where in gutsy because it wasent in cdbs in gutsy yet, but hardy includes those
<imbrandon> and you also have some in the debian/cdbs tree that arent even used, looks like you only use kde.ml
<Riddell> the kde 4 kde.mk file isn't in cdbs
<imbrandon> kde.mk*
<persia> imbrandon: hardy doesn't have all of them yet (but it does have kde.mk)
<imbrandon> Riddell: it looks like its the old one /m looks
<cheguevara> imbrandon, cmake.mk should be used as well
<imbrandon> right i see its refrenced in the kde.mk
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> cmake and kde are both in cdbs, Riddell is that a diffrent kde.mk and cmake.mk ?
<Riddell> imbrandon: yes
<Riddell> kde 4 has an entirely different build system to kde 3
<imbrandon> hrm seems like they should be renamed to debian/cdbs/kde4.mk then to avoid confusion
<imbrandon> Riddell: i know that
<imbrandon> but i thought the mk file was smart enough
<Riddell> we don't want to rename it, that would be unnecessary diff from debian
<imbrandon> ahh it was -0ubuntu1 i assumed it wasent in debian
<cheguevara> but main ones are
<cheguevara> main kde 4 packages that is
<cheguevara> in experimental
<imbrandon> cheguevara: is this package in debian ?
<Riddell> no
<cheguevara> no
<imbrandon> umm then ..... /me is confused
<imbrandon> how would it be a diff from debian if its not in debian ?
<cheguevara> kdebase, kdelibs, etc are in debian though
<imbrandon> right
<cheguevara> and its kinda strange to use diff names for .mks across different kde 4 packages
<Riddell> because the packaging he's using comes from our main kde 4 packages, and that comes from debian
<imbrandon> ahh i see now
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> cool ok other than that looks good to me, let me poke one last thing then i'll advocate
<imbrandon> cheguevara: ^^
<cheguevara> imbrandon, cool, thanks
<cbx33> ping nixternal
<nixternal> yo yo pete
<cbx33> howz it going
<cbx33> so just saw your blog about kde4
<cbx33> can i try rc2 on gutsy?
<nixternal> working on a java project that is whooopin' my arse
<cbx33> is it easy?
<cbx33> oh
<nixternal> yes you can use rc2 on gutsy
<cbx33> easily?
<cbx33> howto anywhere
<nixternal> kubuntu.org
<cbx33> it's 0:22 and I'm a little beat
<cbx33> thanks
<nixternal> under the release announcement
<nixternal> should be one of the top stories if it isn't the top story
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> got it
<cbx33> just been writing a howto on maemo and scratchbox
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> does that get dolphin too?
<harrisony> Im packaging a python program and is pysupport better than pycentral or it doesnt really matter or the other way around
<somerville32> I prefer pysupport
<LaserJock> I like pycentral
<LaserJock> I think it really doesn't matter so much which you choose
<txwikinger> anybody ever tried to use pbuilder on a mounted drive?
<harrisony> Hmm, guess its pycentral, as pysupport is not working :)
<somerville32> txwikinger, You kind of have to :P
<txwikinger> somerville32: :P
<persia> harrisony: The only useful argument I've ever seen between the two is that pycentral allows you to specifically exclude some directories from byte-compilation at install-time (but this was in the past, so pysupport may have caught up)
<txwikinger> I get an error when Iuse it on a sshfs mounted drive
<somerville32> pysupport is cleaner in my mind
<harrisony> pysupport works now, so i guess its that :)
<harrisony> err
<harrisony> what do you add to debuild -S to make it include the orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> -sa
<pwnguin> woa. tracker config applet
<harrisony> can i get someone to look at this and tell me why pbuilder isnt building me a deb i used debuild -S -sa and then pbuilder-dist hardy ../*.dsc
<harrisony> http://pastebin.ca/819545
<LaserJock> harrisony: it looks like it worked
<LaserJock> harrisony: where are you looking for the .deb
<harrisony> ls .. that has the orig.tar.gz and the changes files but no deb
<harrisony> Oh wait
<harrisony> stupid me
<harrisony> hahahahah
<harrisony> sorry for got to look in ~/pbuilder
<harrisony> There it is hehe
 * harrisony makes first revu upload
<harrisony> oops, uploaded the wrong version of the package
<persia> harrisony: parcellite?
<harrisony> persia: yep
<persia> harrisony: Are you a member of contributors to Ubuntu universe?
<cheguevara> imbrandon, you still around
<harrisony> persia: yep
<persia> harrisony: Odd.  The package got rejected.  Usually that's a keyring issue.
<harrisony> persia: i did change my gpg key 2 days ago
<persia> harrisony: That might be it.  Is the new key in LP?
<harrisony> persia: yea
 * persia syncs the keyring, just in case
<LaserJock> persia: did you go to bed?
<persia> LaserJock: For a bit: I needed to retrieve my Zaurus.
<persia> harrisony: 3A161F13?
<harrisony> persia: yep
<persia> harrisony: Imported.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to be cool enough to delete your packages from the incoming directory, so it might need someone else before you can upload.
<harrisony> persia: thanks, and ahh, i see
<imbrandon> cheguevara: yea
<imbrandon> cheguevara: i had to reboot
<cheguevara> imbrandon, cool, just wanted to say i uploaded a new revision
<persia> imbrandon: Can you delete from /srv/uploads on revu?
<cheguevara> 'cause Riddell fount some stuff
<imbrandon> persia: yea, why ?
<persia> imbrandon: parcellite needs to die
<imbrandon> k one sec
<harrisony> DIE!!! I TELL YOU DIE!!!!!!!!
<persia> cheguevara: You'll get the best quality package if you have lots of different reviewers.  Best to ask for someone new, rather than checking back with the person who reviewed the package last time.
<cheguevara> persia: just trying to get people that know about kde packaging most of the time, ie Riddel 'cause some kde related things
<imbrandon> persia: done
<persia> cheguevara: Understood,  Still, more eyes is better, and there's bunches of things that aren't KDE that are easy to miss :)
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.
<persia> harrisony: Try uploading now.
<imbrandon> cheguevara: then ScottK hobbsee and others as well as myself are kde people :)
<imbrandon> harrisony: be sure to rm *.upload localy first too
<persia> cheguevara: apachelogger also, and a very active reviewer.
<cheguevara> yep i always get apachelogger to review my uploads
<harrisony> persia and imbrandon: thanks
<imbrandon> np
<harrisony> didnt apachelogger have surgery
<harrisony> or something and was in hospital
<imbrandon> bbiab , videocard issues <detaches>
<cheguevara> but yeah kcoloredit-kde4 is there for review :)
<persia> cheguevara: You've modified the upstream tarball without a get-orig-source rule.  This means it's hard to reconstruct.  Please add such a rule.
<LaserJock> hmm, and why is the upstream tarball modified?
<persia> LaserJock: licensing from SVN.  Unfortunately necessary.
<LaserJock> eww
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  Better than a SVN snapshot, no?
<LaserJock> yeah, but messing around with licensing isn't nice
<cheguevara> persia, do you have an example rule please
<cheguevara> or is it just a @wget
<persia> cheguevara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#ChangingOrigTarball has a few examples for repacks.  Add additional steps as required.  In your case, I'd recommend adding a watch file, and starting with a uscan call.
<cheguevara> persia, is it really worth the effort? because RC 2 of all KDE will be out pretty soon and tarball won't have to modified anymore
<cheguevara> i mean RC 3
<persia> cheguevara: depends on whether you think it will get through revu before RC 3 is out.  Not many will advocate without checking your upstream tarball, and if it's known modified, without at least some description of the process to create it.
<somerville32> Is anyone working on the u-u-s queue?
<persia> somerville32: Several people.  Why?
<cheguevara> persia, i already got one package through revu  with the same thing (a COPYING file) added + plus Riddell said it was fine to just modify it
<cheguevara> I don't mind doing it though, if you think its a good idea :)
<somerville32> persia, More specifically, is anyone working on the u-u-s queue at the moment? If there are, I'd stay up a bit incase they get to my items and if not then I'll go to bed.
<persia> cheguevara: You got lucky, and Riddell would be one of the "Not many" mentioned above.
<somerville32> *than
<persia> somerville32: Go to bed.  The queue is currently at around 9 hours since the bug was last touched.
<LaserJock> cheguevara: you should at least document it somewhere, at a minimum
<cheguevara> its in the debian/changelog
<somerville32> cheguevara, Put a note in readme.debian or smething
<cheguevara>   * Upstream tarball modified to include copyright files from svn
<somerville32> cheguevara, Yes but the changelog will get populated and that note might be harder to spot later on.
<persia> cheguevara: That you modified it is in debian/changelog.  Policy says that modified orig.tar.gz must be described in debian/copyright, and that packagers may optionally provide a get-orig-source rule rather than a shell script in debian/copyright.  Whether you have get-orig-source or not, you want a watch file.
<LaserJock> and you should say specifically what files where changed
<cheguevara> right
<cheguevara> so add a watch file and put the changed files in copyright?
<persia> cheguevara: That's the quick & dirty way to be policy compliant.
<persia> (which might be fine, given that RC 3 is out soon).
<cheguevara> is there good example of a watch file somehwere as well
<cheguevara> *somewhere
<cheguevara> or is it just version=x and url on the next line
<cheguevara> plus the stuff from ChangingOrigTarball
<persia> cheguevara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch is an overview.  man uscan for details
<cheguevara> thanks
<cheguevara> also got http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kmldonkey-kde4
<gouki> imbrandon: pong
<cheguevara> persia, re-uploaded kcoloredit
<imbrandon> gouki: heya
 * Hobbsee waves
 * Fujitsu waves.
<bddebian> Hello Hobbsee :-)
<Fujitsu> Hi bddebian, imbrandon, Hobbsee.
<bddebian> Heya Fujitsu :)
<Hobbsee> heya Fujitsu, bddebian, imbrandon
<harrisony> hey /names
<imbrandon> heya all
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya LaserJock!
<LaserJock> hmm, Georgia?
<crimsun> eh?
<LaserJock> imbrandon said he changed his font to Georgia
<imbrandon> yea all but my mono spaced font is georgia now
<imbrandon> i love that font, and my mono spaced one is Dejvu Sans
<crimsun> I use Calibri for all but the fixed width, which is Consolas
<Fujitsu> Those are Vista core fonts, aren't they?
<imbrandon> not that i'm aware
<imbrandon> they are probably msttfonts because i use them both on windows too though
<Fujitsu> Calibri would be the Office 2k7 interface font.
<imbrandon> ahh i thought you ment mine
<crimsun> yes, they are core Vista fonts AFAICT
<jcastro> crimsun: I do the exact fonts
<jcastro> calibri is quite awesome
<harrisony> If only pbuilder told me how much it needed to download left before i can build this package
<StevenK> jcastro: But it isn't free to distribute?
<crimsun> I don't believe it's Free.
<jcastro> StevenK: I am pretty sure it is not.
<jcastro> I am actually kicking the tires on the Liberation ones right now
<StevenK> jcastro: Tut tut. :-P
<crimsun> Liberation is pretty nice.
<jcastro> yeah, they're not bad at all
<crimsun> I've been digging through fonts ever since Kees's post
 * imbrandon dident see kees post
<imbrandon> blog or ML ?
<crimsun> (http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2007/12/12/search-for-a-crisp-monospace-true-type-font/)
 * imbrandon looks
<LaserJock> crimsun: that kinda messed me up
<LaserJock> I must have done something wrong
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The code just doesn't like the lack of ponies, sorry.
<cheguevara> :P
<imbrandon> really i just love the numerals in the MS TT Core font Georgia, if i could have another font for the letters and the numerals Georgia it would rock
<cheguevara> imbrandon, the "W" is a bit funy
<imbrandon> StevenK / jcastro / crimsun : see how it blurs real bad in the blogpost ( but not most anywhere else where georgia or mono is used )
<imbrandon> like the words "hinting" and "lines" on the last sentance in the blogpost
<imbrandon> cheguevara: heh thats Georgia ( I assume you mean the "W" on the program interfaces )
<cheguevara> yeah :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: hmm, but you like the serif font everywhere?
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> interesting, just saw an OLPC commercial on TV
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: http://www.youtube.com/OLPCFoundation
<harrisony> Hmm, im trying to build a package for this python application but it wont run and i think its a bug in the program
<harrisony> can i get someone try install the program and tell me if its a bug in the program or me
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if this laptop harddrive Load_Cycle thing is really an issue
<persia> LaserJock: Yes and no.  Depends on the specific hardware.  It's a moving part, so can wear out.
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah it definitely shortens disk life, but to what extent, I don't know.
<LaserJock> in Ubuntu Daemon's blog it says I shouldn't have more than like 90-160 cycles/day
<jdong> LaserJock: I have a mobile terminal (laptop in a high-shock environment) that I put on -B 1 and it has 4.5 million load cycles
<LaserJock> my laptop is getting 3k
<jdong> LaserJock: it's "supposed" to last 600,000 load cycles
<jdong> LaserJock: yet it still works. Be the judge :-/
<LaserJock> jdong: what do you mean by -B 1
<persia> It's a MTBF sort of thing.  Due to the number of DOA devices, the tail is fairly long.  Backups are good.
<jdong> LaserJock: most aggressive power mgmt setting
<jdong> LaserJock: basically park the head as soon as activity is done
<LaserJock> ah
<jdong> what the blog article complains about
<persia> jdong: Do you also have aggressive caching, or do you restart whenever anything happens?
<jdong> persia: just generic laptop-mode, it doesn't feel terribly aggressively cached
<persia> jdong: Ah, so maximum park frequency :)
<jdong> yeah, because I'm too lazy to tune it
<jdong> my rationale is, the parking makes the data safer when the machine gets bumped, which happens a lot
<minghua> Well, my Load_Cycle is at 634,000 mark, and my smartctl tests now fails. :-(
<jdong> minghua: I've had 5 maxtors fail on me within 4 months of purchase, none of which were subjected to any power management settings :)
<jdong> I don't think there's a strong load_cycle to disk death correlation
<minghua> jdong: I know, I know, I've had horror stories with IBM Caviar disks as well.
<minghua> I'm not saying my Load_Cycle count is the reason of the test failure, but I suspect they are related.
<persia> Well, I'd suggest that the higher the load_cycle, the higher the chance that the little arm breaks, but the chance may remain completely miniscule.
<jdong> it might be a small contributing factor...
<minghua> (I have been running Debian on that laptop, by the way.)
<minghua> Hmm.  I wonder what else is wrong with my harddrive, then.
<jdong> random chance....
<minghua> It's an uneasy feeling to know you laptop hard disk can fail anytime.
<LaserJock> I'm up to 467059
<LaserJock> and a short scan worked fine, but the indepth one seemed to fail
<LaserJock> I suppose compiling a lot will affect it
<minghua> Like persia said, backup is always good. :-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I've been doing that more often lately
<LaserJock> I hope it doesn't die during christmas, I'd be upset
<persia> LaserJock: Add a heap of RAM and compile in cache :)
<LaserJock> although with no sales tax in Montana it might be a good time to pick up a harddrive
<minghua> A 90% sale would offset the sales tax, so it's never a factor to consider for me.
<LaserJock> is it worth getting a 7200rpm hard drive for laptops?
<crimsun> well, what's important to you?
<crimsun> frankly, battery life is to me, so I don't care if it's slower
<LaserJock> well, a  pbuilder *not* taking over 1min to unpack would be cool
<StevenK> LaserJock: Use sbuild, then
<harrisony> cowbuilder pbuilder with copy on write
<persia> LaserJock: sbuild helps.  more RAM helps (bad for battery).  Solid-state disk helps.
<StevenK> I've never managed to get cowbuilder working to my satisfaction.
<StevenK> sbuild with keescook's lovely script just works
<LaserJock> StevenK: doesn't that take LVM?
<StevenK> In fact, slangasek, keescook and I were having a talk about improving the script at AllHands
<StevenK> LaserJock: Right. But you don't have to set your whole machine up as LVM
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, but you can do a fair bit with LVM only for that.  I have all my sbuild stuff in a 20GB VG, and can run two simultaneous builds against sid, hardy, or gutsy.
<persia> (mind you, I can't build wxwidgets2.8)
<StevenK> I have one 250Gb VG, but my machine uses LVM for everything
<harrisony> would be nice if pbuilder-uml was fixed, has a broken dep. on rootstrap
<harrisony> because pbuilder-uml sounds neat
<persia> Could anyone suggest why "ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gopersist/0.1/gopersist-?_?([\d+\.]+|\d+)\.tar.* debian uupdate" is failing to match in a watch file?
<minghua> persia: What does ?_? mean?
<persia> minghua: I believe "-?_?" means zero or one '-' characters followed by zero or one '_' characters.
<minghua> persia: I see now.  That a rather complicated regex...
<ember> it's appears almost to be a sf.net regex for watch files
<Flannel> its gopersist with - and/or _ followed by zero or more numbers with decimals, followed by a number, followed by .tar with anything afterwards.
<Flannel> Where "number" is any number of digits
<minghua> persia: Can you enlighten me about [\d+\.]+ as well?  I don't understand why + is in the middle.
<persia> Flannel: Right.  Somehow it isn't matching anything on ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gopersist/0.1 , and I don't understand why.
<Flannel> persia: thats because / isnt _ or -
<persia> minghua: One or more sets of digits and decimals, followed by one or more digits.
<ember> ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gopersist/0.1/gopersist-(.*)\.tar\.gz
<ember> isn't enough?
<persia> ember: .* is not a good idea in perl
<minghua> persia: Why are they in the [] brackets then?
<Flannel> Oh, right, [ ] isn't right
<StevenK> .* in Perl is greedy by default
<StevenK> It's better to use a character class
<persia> minghua: [baz] means any of 'b', 'a', or 'z'
<Flannel> what those brackets should be is [0-9.]
<persia> Flannel: Surely you mean \.
<StevenK> Heh heh
<persia> Anyway, why is "0-9" better than "\d"?
<minghua> I don't think you need to escape . in [].
<StevenK> persia: It isn't
<Flannel> persia: \d can't be used inside of []
<ember> ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gopersist/0.1/gopersist-([\d.]+)\.tar\.gz
<persia> Flannel: Works for all my other watch files :)
<minghua> But then again, RegExp is not my native language... :-P
<Flannel> ember: [\d.] isn't right
<Flannel> (\d|\.)
<Flannel> would be what that is properly
<Flannel> or rather (\d+|.)
<StevenK> [\d\.]+
<Flannel> StevenK: Escaping inside of square brackets?
<persia> StevenK: So just drop the final [\d]+ ?
<StevenK> I'm digging through perlre
<Flannel> There is no escaping inside of square brackets
<ember> regex is evil
<persia> Flannel: Yes.  It needs escaping there too.
<Flannel> both of those \ are literal \s
<persia> ember: Only because there are so many flavours
<minghua> So debian/watch uses the Perl version?
<StevenK> Flannel: No, they aren't. I have perlre in front of me now
<minghua> s/version/flavor/
<persia> Flannel: I know \d inside square brackets works, so I'm sure I don't agree with that.
<Flannel> . isnt
<Flannel> \d works
<persia> minghua: Yes.  Debian watch is interpreted by uscan, which is in perl.  Amusingly enough, you can execute almost anything in a watch file if you are careful.
<Flannel> special characters inside of [ are \ ] ^(when at the beginning) and -
<Flannel> . isnt, nor is *, etc
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% echo 0000 | perl -ne 'if (/[\d]+/) { print "Flannel is wrong\n"; }'
<StevenK> Flannel is wrong
<Flannel> \d works . doesnt
<Flannel> you dont escape . inside of square brackets
 * persia does, successfully
<Flannel> of course [\.] will work, but it'll also match \
<persia> Flannel: But [.(that other thing) doesn't work.
<Flannel> \. thats ecaping the ., but its a regular ., so it may still work, but I wouldnt bet on it working everywhere
<persia> Flannel: Sure.  I only expect it to work that way in perl.
<Flannel> Ah
<Flannel> POSIX has \ not being a special character inside of square brackets
<Flannel> so it depends on whether youre using POSIX or PCRE
<persia> Flannel: Right.  For sed, awk, etc.  You'd have been correct, except we should have been using \( and \) for the match string :)
<minghua> persia: The "+" in bracket in your original pattern still doesn't make any sense to me.
<Flannel> minghua: Thats because it shouldnt.  He meant one or more of \d, but its inside of brackets, so it doesnt work like that
<persia> minghua: I believe it is a literal '+'.  I'm not sure.  That regex was generated by watchwiz.
<minghua> persia: I read it as a literal +, too.
<Flannel> Its treated as a literal, whether thats what you want or not...
<persia> Flannel: It oughtn't break anything, right?
<Flannel> persia: it'll only give you a false positive
 * persia would be happy with any positive match, even false
<Flannel> What are you trying to match on?
<persia> ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gopersist/0.1/gopersist-0.1.1.tar.gz
<persia> (or whichever version they put there tomorrow)
<Flannel> gopersist[-_](\d+\.?)+tar\.gz
<Flannel> that's how I'd write it
<minghua> If you don't mind false positive, what is wrong with ([\d.]+)
<minghua> ?
<persia> Flannel: That doesn't match 0.1.1
<Flannel> persia: Why not?
<persia> Flannel: Well, it does, but it matches in three chunks.  I need a single chunk (as I'm not writing the perl code that uses it)
<persia> minghua: I might try that (with the missing \ restored
<Flannel> Oh, you need to match the whole file number as $1?
<persia> "ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gopersist/0.1/gopersist-([\d\.]*)\.tar.*" doesn't work either :(
<persia> Flannel: Yep.
<Flannel> persia: So, well, you could do this:
 * persia tries escaping the / characters
<Flannel> gopersist[-_]((\d+\.?))+\.tar\.gz
<minghua> persia: Curious.
<Flannel> That'll put the whole thing in $1, then you'll have $2, $3, $4 ... for the pieces
<persia> Flannel: I'm writing for interpretation by uscan.  I'm not able to do cool nifty thngs, unfortunately (despite you being mostly correct).  Further, I think you meant gopersist[-_]((\d+\.?)+)\.tar\.gz
<Flannel> Isnt that what I... oh, no its not, but yes, thats what I meant
<LaserJock> persia: and you want watch files for everything? ;-)
<persia> Although this would be useless for the intended purpose, "ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gopersist/0.1/gopersist-(.*)" doesn't match either, which I find very odd.
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, so we can keep track.  Most just work.  This one is annoying for some reason.
<Flannel> But yeah, I'd just move to character classes.
<Flannel> persia: Do you need to escape anything?
<Flannel> As in, escape for the parser
<persia> Flannel: I tried escaping the '/' characters, but then it couldn't figure out the protocol.
 * persia goes off to read uscan source
<minghua> persia: Maybe try http:// protocol?
<persia> minghua: Interesting idea.  Doesn't match debian/copyright (but that can be fixed).  Also means I can separate the URL from the regex, making it easier.  Thanks.
<warp10> Hi all!
<\sh> moins
<LaserJock> woah, crimsun's got a lot of uploads
<LaserJock> 10x as many as I do
<TheMuso> c
<StevenK> Way cool, I'm still in the top ten
<TheMuso> wrong tab
<LaserJock> shesh, dholbach's got 40 times as many as me
<persia> LaserJock: For big counts, chase NBS, watch files, or source-maintainer-mangling.  Usually pretty fast (although I like to make the watch-files also lintian/linda clean)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Is that ever, or Hardy?
<LaserJock> ever
<persia> For hardy, I think TheMuso has the lead
<StevenK> LaserJock: Then I suspect I have a lot more than you do as well
<TheMuso> persia: Not for long though.
<LaserJock> I'm doing some -changes greping
<TheMuso> And really, I don't care about upload stats.
<LaserJock> StevenK: umm, yeah ...
<persia> TheMuso: You're high enough you might make top-ten for hardy: seems to be a big gap between around 100 and around 250.
<TheMuso> Yeah, if I keep up contributions top ten is possible, but again, I don't care.
<TheMuso> Its not how many uploads one does, but the quality of those uploads.
<LaserJock> if only we had a good metric for quality
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> not included Hardy, doko has 5073 uploads
<persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with that.  In some ways, lots of uploads might well mean uploading the same thing over and over to get it right.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah, and the only reason I lead is due to the libglib1.2 transition.
<persia> TheMuso: That's a good reason.  NBS is something we should all do more to fix.
<superm1> persia, well it can also mean lots of bug fixing on the same thing though too
<TheMuso> Its actually scary just how many packages use that dated library.
<persia> superm1: If I test something, and fix all the bugs, and it takes me three weeks, then I only need to upload once.  If the changelog tends to have batches of three or four uploads every day or two for a while, that indicates weak testing (see some of the changelogs of the top 10 updated packages).  Note that in many cases, it's easier to test with an upload than to test locally (especially for odd-arch things).
 * TheMuso finally managed to get hardy synced today. I now have a full gutsy+hardy i386+powerpc+source local mirror.
<\sh> so
<superm1> persia, ah i see.  the way i've been doing things (with my limited time this cycle at least) has been going through and picking a selection of bugs to fix for a given package, say mplayer.  fix those 5-10 bugs, test and upload.  i don't know for sure when i'll get back to more bug fixing, so i see it as better to upload them at that point
<persia> superm1: I can understand that workflow, and think it's good if there is uncertainty as to when you get back to it, but I suspect those uploads are of lower quality than if you fixed and tested all in one session (assuming you had the time)
<superm1> LaserJock, well developing a metric wouldn't be very difficult I suspect though.  Assuming everyone is properly putting in (LP: #XXXX) in their bugs, parsing changelogs to find out how many launchpad bugs are closed could be a good metric
<persia> superm1: Skews for people without upload access, who always get an extra bug closure.
<superm1> well if people would consistently accredit [ Name ] in their changelogs that can be adjusted could it not?
<Hobbsee> persia: prevents people working in tandem, or with the updated sourc,e though
<Hobbsee> persia: isn;'t that the reverse idea of bzr?
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<superm1> Hobbsee, well that would depend on how long that "one session" was i'd have to say
<superm1> Hobbsee, and how religiously items are committed to bzr (eg commit for every bug fix or what not)
<superm1> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey TheMuso, hey superm1!
<Hobbsee> superm1: well, of course
 * persia notes that with more attention, Hobbsee would have been advised that it depends on what one is doing: in the case of a BZR like-system, makes sense for everyone to commit their changes and decree it good before someone uploads to the archive.  In the case of lonely universe packages, maybe it doesn't matter.
<persia> (more attention on my part)
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> heya \sh, hey persia
<persia> Hi dholbach
<\sh> oh well, all my christmas present are already delivered.....new job, money, new kitchen ;)
<gouki> \sh: Congratulations :)
<\sh> gouki, thx :)
<\sh> from the 1st of February I can call myself a senior it systemadministrator...FUN !
<gouki> Unix administrator, \sh ?
<slytherin> Hi. I want to add watch file for an application which is hosted on sourceforge. Can anyone provide sample watch file?
<warp10> slytherin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
<slytherin> warp10: Thanks. :-)
<\sh> gouki, yepp and cisco stuff
<geser> morning
<TheMuso> Could anybody point me to the logs from the session that persia ran about reading stack traces?
<Flannel> Why am I getting X11 errors when trying to prevu libode back to dapper?  All of the sudden it tries to grab x11 packages, and I can't see why on earth it wants them.
<huats> dear motus good morning
<dholbach> hey huats
<huats> hey dholbach
<BugMaN> dholbach: hi :)
<dholbach> heya BugMaN
<txwikinger2> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya txwikinger2
<dholbach> how are y'all doing?
<txwikinger2> I am working on this dependency issue for hardy
<txwikinger2> and the source does not even compile and is >14 month old
<txwikinger2> ans cvs
<dholbach> dependency issue for hardy?
<txwikinger2> well a package
<txwikinger2> attal or soemthing like that
<dholbach> ah I see
<txwikinger2> there is a new rc on the homepage
<txwikinger2> which actually compiles
<txwikinger2> shouldn't we use that instead?
<txwikinger2> It is a game .. beta-version as it seems
<txwikinger2> hehe debians version is even older than ours :)
<txwikinger2> I would put this new version on revu, right?
 * persia has lost context, but is this is an updated package, an interdiff in a bug is preferred,
<persia> s/is/if/1
<txwikinger2> ok.. can do that
<txwikinger2> I will do some testing of the game itself first though
<txwikinger2> or better I let my son do that :D
<persia> That's always good.  Which game?
<txwikinger2> attal
<txwikinger2> Have to first check if it is age-appropriate though
<LucidFox> KDE applications can't be under GPLv3 or later, can they?
<TheMuso> persia: Was there ever a log made of that session about reading stack traces? Or did that session not occur?
<persia> TheMuso: There was a log, but only on irclogs.ubuntu.com.
<persia> TheMuso: Are you chasing one now, and want another pair of eyes?
<TheMuso> persia: No, I'd like to read the log to see what was covered in the session.
<TheMuso> As I wasn't there, and would like to have a read.
<txwikinger2> We made should have a references from the Debugging Page or the MOTU School to it
<txwikinger2> s/made/maybe/
<persia> Ah.  I'll dig it up then.  At a quick overview, I introduced what stacktraces were (badly).  We walked through one until most people had some idea where the problem was.  We then looked at a couple more (which had no clear solution) to experiment with the techniques and see what we could discover.
 * txwikinger2 thought the session was very helpful
<TheMuso> persia: ah ok
<txwikinger2> .. and still thinks so
<persia> TheMuso: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/11/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html starting from the top.  For value, you'll want to also be looking at the mentioned traces, and walking through the code.
<persia> txwikinger2: Have you successfully debugged a crash using those techniques?
<txwikinger2> persia: I haven't really found a suitable bug afterwards
<persia> txwikinger2: Are you a member of crash bug triagers for universe?
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah I thought so, but wanted somewhere to start, to learn more about them. Thanks.
<txwikinger2> THe ones I saw didn't have the trace created yet when I looked at them
<persia> txwikinger2: The trick is to subscribe to the bug, and hit the trace when it comes :)
<txwikinger2> However, I feel comfortable they I know what to do when I see one :)
<txwikinger2> persia: ok.. I will do that from now on
<persia> TheMuso: I'd be happy to walk you through one that is happening in your code (or a pet bug) if you like.
<persia> (takes about an hour to track one down, usually)
<persia> txwikinger2: Good luck :)
<TheMuso> persia: There is one that would be good, let me dig it up after I'm off the phone.
<txwikinger2> I think I do some paid work for a change... four days left
<persia> TheMuso: Sure.
<TheMuso> persia: bug 147969  is a crash bug that I reported via apport a while back, and would like to investigate.
<ubotu> Bug 147969 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/147969 is private
<TheMuso> wha
<TheMuso> didn't notice that
<TheMuso> Ok. bug 147969
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147969 in speech-dispatcher "sd_espeak crashed with SIGSEGV in snd_pcm_state()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147969
<persia> TheMuso: OK.  Looking now.
<persia> First, does anyone mind if TheMuso and I trace this bug in-channel?
 * persia takes silence for assent
<persia> OK.  We'll start with Stacktrace (retraced), which tends to be most informative.
<TheMuso> ok
<persia> This is a pretty simple one, with only 9 frames.  Each frame represents a point on the stack, so the program called #9, which called #8, etc. until the crash at #0.
<persia> I usually like to start about #3 or #4 to build some context.  This is the espeak package?
<TheMuso> No, a package that uses espeak. The executable links libespeak
<TheMuso> so sd_espeak links against libespeak.so.1
<persia> TheMuso: OK.  So which is likely to be the relevant source to start?  The top looks like alsa, so I think we want to start around #6 or #7.
<TheMuso> persia: THis problem lies within the speech-dispatcher code.
<persia> OK.Let's start at #7 then (espeak.c:615)
<TheMuso> ok
<persia> So, the starting point should be far enough back that you're sure you're not in a library, and far enough forward to understand what is happening.  YOu might be able to start further up, but please have patience for my unfamiliarity with the code.
<TheMuso> sure
<persia> So, when starting, one tries to understand the context of what is happening.  In this case, we're calling a stop_or_pause, and will want to check under what conditions this is called.
<TheMuso> right
<persia> espeak.c:615 is the point from which we call the listed function.
<TheMuso> yep
<persia> Err.. I seem to have the wrong version of the code :(  Hold on a bit...
<TheMuso> pull gutsy's
<TheMuso> and its src/modules/espeak.c
<TheMuso> THis problem has not been fixed since then, I am certain of that.
<persia> The newer code looks different enough that I was having trouble following, so I think you are correct.
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> THere are some patches in the speech-dispatcher package but they don't go anywhere near that code
<persia> So to me it looks like we're polling a lock every 5milliseconds to see if the audio stopped properly, and we're passing the ID that we want to stop.  Does that match your understanding of this bit?
<TheMuso> yea
<persia> OK.  That's a nice safe place to be: not a lot of conditions.  Looking back at the stacktrace, we can see that espeak_audio_id was null (0x0) for the call that crashed.
<persia> So, moving to #6, let's look at spd_audio.c
 * persia applies all the patches, just in case
<TheMuso> I can't find espeak_audio_id in the trace
<slicer> Today is revu day, right?
<persia> The trace says "_espeak_stop_or_pause (nothing=0x0)", which means that the function was called with the arguments in the parentheses.  At the time of passing, it's anonymous (pass by value), but we know it was espeak_audio_id from espeak.c:615, as that was what it was called.
<persia> slicer: Yep.
<TheMuso> persia: ah ok.
<persia> So, looking at spd_audio_stop (src/audio/spd_audio.c:234), it's a fairly simple function.
<TheMuso> yep
<persia> Since we're told it's line 234, and #5 is alsa_stop, it's probably safe to say it is the ->stop call that causes the problem.  In this case, we're passing an id, which is probably a pointer to the new value for espeak_audio_id.
<TheMuso> right
<persia> Now one of the things we look for when we move through the stack is branches and conditionals to build context.  In this case, we know it means the minimal interface, so somehow (0x0)->function->stop has been instantiated.  Perhaps through the nature of the AudioID type.
<TheMuso> right
<persia> We'll keep in mind that AudioID when initialised with null becomes 0x8087500 (taken from the stacktrace), and look at it later if we think the initialisation routines might be the issue.
<TheMuso> ok
<persia> So, do you want to lead us into #5, od shall I do another first?
<TheMuso> persia: Another please, I still don't quite get the hang of this.
<persia> Sure.  You're with it so far for #6 right?
<TheMuso> All I can tell from 5 is that the same id gets passed to alsa_stop
<TheMuso> Yes.
<persia> That's as much as the stacktrace tells us about #5 :)  We'll want to look at the code to figure out what is happening.
<TheMuso> righ
<TheMuso> right
<persia> So, `find . -name alsa.c -print` from the package directory tells me we can find alsa.c in ./src/audio/alsa.c, and the stack trace tells me we want to be looking around lije 738
<TheMuso> yep I gathered that much as well
<persia> So, opening that source, we read the alsa_stop function to see what is happening.  The stacktrace reports buf = 42, and we can see that in the code, so we've entered the if statement.
<TheMuso> right
<persia> Line 738 is actually a MSG, which is likely a log note of some sort, and #4 tells us that the problem is in snd_pcm_state().  The address tells us that id->alsa_pcm is a pointer to 0x80a03d0.
<TheMuso> right
<persia> There's still not much branching or anything that could be a clear issue (our data is valid, we're using it, etc.).  So, we move to #4.  Give it a shot.
<persia> Err.  My apologies: this is maybe a hard boundary to try.  We'll need to pull a different source :)
<TheMuso> alsa-lib I presume.
<persia> Sounds like a good candidate
<slicer> Oh, the horror.
<persia> slicer: Which?
<slicer> persia: alsa-lib.
 * persia is not doing very well at avoiding alsa today
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> ok got it up here
<persia> TheMuso: Yep.  ./src/pcm/pcm.c in alsa-lib (1.0.14)
<TheMuso> yep
<persia> So tell me about it.  What can we learn from here?
<slytherin> ideally what should be name of .orig.tar.gz if it is a beta version?
<TheMuso> that something is being returned to the calling function, which is alsa_stop in speech-dispatcher, something to do with fast ops.
<TheMuso> so far I can't work out more than that without digging deeper
<persia> slytherin: I like goodstuff_7.2.8~beta1.orig.tar.gz
<slytherin> persia: thanks
<TheMuso> persia: So snd_pcm_state is being given the alsa client id I presume it is.
<persia> TheMuso: Right.  One of the key skills with reading stacktraces is not to care what things mean too much, as long as you can make a guess.  When you find the crash, then you start understanding the pieces you need.  Otherwise, one has to learn the whole body of source.
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> Which gets assigned by alsa-lib when things are initialized.
<persia> The only thing to note is that espeak_audio_id->alsa_pcm->fast_op_arg is 0xb5e00468
<TheMuso> ok
<persia> (just to keep track of our variable)
<TheMuso> yes
<persia> So, let's go to #3: your lead.
<TheMuso> looking...
<TheMuso> Ok. in pcm_rate.c:1117 snd_pcm_rate_state is being passed a value I don't know about...
<persia> TheMuso: OK.  Let's look at the function step-by-step.  First, we initialize snd_pcm_t = espeak_audio_id->alsa_pcm->fast_op_arg (0xb5e00468)
<persia> Err, that shoud be "pcm = espeak_audio_id->alsa_pcm->fast_op_arg (0xb5e00468)"
<TheMuso> Right.
<persia> Then, we set rate = pcm->priivate_data which is espeak_audio_id->alsa_pcm->fast_op_arg->private_data
<persia> Then we check to see if it is in a pending state, and it's not (or we would have been bounced back to #4 from line 1116)
<TheMuso> Right. Sorry, got slightly confused that we were dealing with function pointers.
<persia> Then we call snd_pcm_state with espeak_audio_id->alsa_pcm->fast_op_arg->private_data->gen.slave
<persia> (0xb5e00810)
<TheMuso> right
<persia> And that pushes us to #2 (as we're now in a new function call)
<TheMuso> yep gathered that
<persia> It's the same call we saw before that told us almost nothing, except that we now have the extremely ungainly espeak_audio_id->alsa_pcm->fast_op_arg->private_data->gen.slave->fast_op_arg (0xb5e00810)
<persia> And that sends us to #1.  You again.
 * TheMuso finds his head start to spin with all these function pointers.
<dfiloni> persia: if I do a package for a single pidgin plugin do you know if the package will be add to the repository?
<persia> TheMuso: Yep.  As you've just seen, we're further building the stack, and bounce back to snd_pcm_state where we finally die, perhaps from having too much recursion :)
<persia> dfiloni: I'd suggest asking in #ubuntu-desktop.  They may have good advice about how to bundle the plugin to get it accepted to the repository.
<TheMuso> so we add generic-slave to that long stack
<dfiloni> persia: ok thanks
<persia> Well, generic is pcm->private_data, so we get ...->private_data->slave, and then pass that back to the calling function.
<TheMuso> err generic->slave
<TheMuso> ah right
<persia> Right.  generic->slave == pcm->private_data->slave == espeak...
<persia> (= 0xb5300710)
<TheMuso> right
<persia> So, now we get the fun part: deciding where to fix it.
<TheMuso> I guess thats why I'm still slightly confused as to what the problem actually is.
<TheMuso> besides a null id being in #6
<persia> It looks to me like ALSA is hopelessly confused by the object at 0x80a03d0, which likely means something wrong with espeak_audio_id (0x8087500)
<TheMuso> #7 even
<TheMuso> right
<persia> Well, we had a value by #6, so I'm guessing that the AudioID initialiser set that somehow.
<TheMuso> Whats even more interestnig though, is that this is a rare crash. I don't have apport on to ensure this at the moment, but the ods of it happening are low.
<persia> I expect so, yes.
<persia> When it's an easily reproduced crash, the solution usually leaps out before one gets this deep, often a set before use, or parsing failure or bad size assumption or something.
<persia> In this case, I think we have three choices: 1) wade into ALSA and somehow force it to provide useful error messages instead of segfaulting when given data that causes annoying recursion.
<TheMuso> yeah I thought as much.
<persia> 2) Hunt down the AudioID initialisation routines and add more safety checks to make sure we only generate a useful value that ALSA can handle,
<TheMuso> 2) in alsa?
<persia> or 3) (my favorite) add an exception handler to alsa_stop that catches the segfault, and warns the user that the device could not be stopped.
<persia> 2) in speech-dispatcher
<persia> (also 3) in speech-dispatcher)
<TheMuso> right
<albert23> persia: thread 2 also works on the same pcm value: #3  0xb7bf0a92 in snd_pcm_close (pcm=0xb5e00810) at pcm.c:710 Could that be a problem?
 * persia notes that albert23 is reading http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9669460/ThreadStacktrace.txt
<TheMuso> right
<albert23> especially since the crash occurs random, could that be a race condition?
<persia> albert23: I do believe you're right.
<TheMuso> Thats what I thought as well.
<persia> In that case, maybe the exception handler should just trap the segfault, wait 5 milliseconds, and try again?
<persia> (in alsa_stop)
<TheMuso> Yeah that could be done, now I'm just working out where the exception would go, and in what form.
<persia> Or would the exception handler properly belong in espeak_stop_or_pause, so as to keep sending null IDs until one works?
<TheMuso> persia: The things is, this race condition is likely to be a problem for all drivers that speech-dispatcher has that use the alsa_stop function.
<TheMuso> If we fix it in alsa_stop, it benefits at least 3 drivers.
<persia> TheMuso: Quite possibly true.
<persia> TheMuso: before you get all arms deep in the code developing the solution, do you have any questions about reading a stacktrace?
<TheMuso> persia: At this point no. I've a log of the channel and the stacktrace file, I just got a little lost with the pointers, but it makes sense. If I was to read it again along with the channel log, it will be clearer.
<persia> TheMuso: don't worry too much about the pointers.  We went down a rabbit hole :)  As long as you now understand the frames, and how to trace them, I'm happy.  Feel free to ask me again if you have any troubles in the future.
<TheMuso> persia: Ok thanks for your help, and yes, I now understand the frames.
<TheMuso> I guess the only question I do have is, whats the point in having the other threads traced above this one? WOuld have they been useful in tracking this down?
<TheMuso> I am guessing they're there for cross-threading issues that could be a problem.
<persia> Generally I find that the thread that generates the segfault usually has the error, but the ones I find that I can do anything about are always coding mistakes.
<persia> For a race condition, or other cross-threading issue, the other threads can provide clues (as albert23 found the same address being used by the other thread in this example)
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> Right.
<LucidFox> TheMuso, what's the status of bug #175937?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175937 in qink "Please sync qink 0.3.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175937
<TheMuso> LucidFox: I'll get to it right away. At the time, I wasn't sure whether the autosyncer would get run another time before DIF.
<LucidFox> Ah.
 * persia encourages bug comments to communicate this type of information.
<TheMuso> Yeah, I should have done that, but I wasn't even sure whether DIF had kicked in etc, and I asked in here about it and got no response. Then I got sidetracked.
<persia> heh
<TheMuso> persia: WOuld I be checking for a NULL value for id->alsa_pcm?
<persia> TheMuso: Depends on how you want to handle it.
<TheMuso> persia: I was thinking about within alsa_stop.
<persia> Method 1 is proscriptive: make sure everything is set correctly before you pass the data.
<persia> Method 2 is reactive: as you know this call might get a segfault, trap it and do something else when it happens.
<_ruben> question.. openswan is currently at 2.4.6 in gutsy, the latest openswan release is 2.4.11 .. the 2.4.x tree contains only bugfixes .. any chance newer versions will be made available for gutsy? or does this also fall outside the scope of 'no version changes within releases'?
<persia> I tend to code in Method 1 for simple stuff (do I exist?  am I the right type?), and Method 2 for tricky stuff (this sometimes breaks: I don't know why, therefore I'll just expect it to break sometimes and handle it gracefully)
<TheMuso> right
<TheMuso> I'll dig deeper into the code then. I've found where the audio_id gets initialized, so will have a poke.
<TheMuso> persia: Thanks again.
<persia> _ruben: That would fall under "no version changes within releases".  However, each of the individual bugs fixed by the newer versions may be considered for application to the version released in Gutsy.  Someone would need to document the bugfixes, work with the sru team to determine which are appropriate for a stable release, and prepare a patch containing those fixes to be applied to 2.4.6 in gutsy (wcich would still be 2.4.6)
<persia> TheMuso: I'm very happy to share: more people reading stacktraces means more people chasing apport bugs means better quality code.  Maybe enough will happen that my system won't crash anymore :)
<TheMuso> heh yeah
<_ruben> persia: hmm ok.. 2.4.x is concidered stable by both dev'ers and users of openswan, so i guess they (the dev'ers) would say all changes between versions are candidates for inclusion in stable releases .. guess i'll go bug the dev'ers as well .. their debian/ dir got stuck at 2.4.0 :p
<TheMuso> Hrm no. I am still thinking within alsa_stop may be better, since its an alsa recursion craziness issue, as espeak_audio_id gets opened at the start of the session, and remains current till the process is killed.
<TheMuso> ...or segfaults. :p
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Just test-building qink now.
<persia> _ruben: It's not about being considered stable, it's about maintaining the same interface and changing as little as possible to avoid introducing any new bugs.  IF upstream is maintaining as a stable release, then it's likely that some of the upstream bugs may meet the critera of "data loss, severe regression, or security issue" that is required for an update to an Ubuntu stable release.
<_ruben> ah
<persia> TheMuso: That makes sense to me.  I didn't look at the AudioID initialisation code, but I think we would have seen a more significant issue earlier up in the stack if the initialisation failed.
<TheMuso> persia: yeah
<persia> _ruben: Just to expand on that a little, Ubuntu does have a backports repository.  If 2.4.11 gets into hardy, and someone can verify it builds & works on gutsy, and submits a bug to the backport team, and the backporting process gets several testers from the official backport build, it can go into the gutsy-backports repository, which tends to contain as much of the newest versions that have been requested for backporting.
<TheMuso> persia: You said earlier that it could perhaps trap the segfault, wait 5 seconds, and try again. What form would the try again take? Since it is multi-threaded, is it that the variable will likely have a value in it due to another thread's activities?
<persia> !backports | _ruben
<ubotu> _ruben: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<TheMuso> So that would be tried
<_ruben> persia: ah ok, but that'd take a while i guess? even the "if 2.4.11 gets into hardy" part ..
<persia> TheMuso: Remember at the beginning where we were in a loop polling every 5 milliseconds for the stop?  I was just thinking to repeat that lower in the stack if we only got part way.  I didn't really analyse it too deeply.
<TheMuso> persia: ah ok.
<persia> A basic "try again" would be something like "Try this catch segfault sleep 5000 try this exit".
<persia> An alternate way to do it would be to catch the segfault, and return a value such that the earlier loop repeated again.  This allows different drivers to handle the polling in different ways.
<TheMuso> Right
<persia> _ruben: Takes a couple weeks if there are testers willing to verify the application.
 * TheMuso looks at alsa_stop again, noticing that it only ever returns 0.
 * persia thinks "0" means "success" in this context
<TheMuso> Yet the ret is checked for anon-zero value in espeak.c, and one will never ever come.
<TheMuso> Yes it does, but there is no other value returned in the event of any failure.
<TheMuso> Its like they don't think it will ever fail
<persia> TheMuso: in which case espeak.c is written properly, and alsa_stop should trap the segfault and return a non-zero value (42?)
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<_ruben> persia: an alternative would be to roll my own package (im aware of the risks), that is: take existing package and "upgrade" it to newer version .. any hints/tips/urls on best-practices in that area?
<TheMuso> Anyway, this is a task for tomorrow. Night folks, and persia, thanks once again for your assistance. Much appreciated.
<persia> _ruben: There's a page on the wiki describing the process.  I'd suggest submitting the result for sponsors review, which helps you learn, reduces the risk of danger, and is part of the path towards a backport.
<_ruben> persia: i'll have a look, thanks
<persia> Were I doing it, I'd rather cherrypick the SRU-worthy bugs from 2.4.11 and apply them to 2.4.6 than try to manage the new upstream.  Helps millions of people that way.
<persia> TheMuso: Could I ask you one small question about speech-dispatcher before you go?  Specifically, how to you maintain speech when using JACK?
 * persia currently stops speech-dispatcher, does JACK stuff, restarts speech-dispatcher
<TheMuso> persia: Well since I don't use jack very often, I don't worry about it. Secondly, I've a large monitor, so any jack stuff is done without speech, and 3rdly, I've more than one card. I use my onboard card for speech, and my envy24-based cards for jack.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  It's probably the third part I want then :)  Thanks.
<TheMuso> I actually hope to get speech-dispatcher to replace gnome-speech in Ubuntu in the future, as its more flexible.
<persia> TheMuso: is gnome-speech the thing I've been hearing about that locks /dev/dsp exclusively?
<TheMuso> persia: Its more portaudio v18 and espeak. V19 has alsa issues.
<TheMuso> Gnome-speech doesn't deal with sound cards, it lets the synth drivers do what the hell they want.
<persia> Ah.  Right.  Portaudio18.
<TheMuso> And so far, wrapping it in padsp has not yielded very good results.
 * persia hasn't tried gnome-speech: speech-dispatcher just looked like the right thing.
<TheMuso> persia: THe only drawback for the gutsy version at least, is that it has to run system wide.
<TheMuso> However, for 0.6.5, they have added options to run it per user.
<TheMuso> I plan to more tightly integrate it with a user's session.
<TheMuso> and use its pulseaudio backend.
<TheMuso> that it now has.
<persia> TheMuso: That will be interesting.  Not important to me (I don't share), but I suspect it suddenly makes it possible to support e.g. LTSP.
<TheMuso> Exactly.
<TheMuso> And luckily, all Linux synths, whether open source or proprietary, allow passing audio back to the calling application in their callback.
<persia> And given the plans for pulse & JACK, things should work semi-smoothly for hardy (although I should probably also use the onboard for speech).
<TheMuso> persia: What pulse and jack plans?
<mruiz> hi all
<persia> TheMuso: A special whitelist of apps like JACK, skype, etc. that could circumvent pulse trapping to access HW directly, without needing to manually intermediate which devices have what sort of access to the card.
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> persia: But as it is, I still think speech-dispatcher long term is more flexible, and provides several audio backends. Once a few things are sorted with orca, I'm going to push it to replace gnome-speech, maybe not for hardy, but hardy+1.
<persia> No big rush.  By the way, does the new orca that just went in fix the does-not-install issue?
<TheMuso> No, that is waiting on brltty, specifically python-brlapi
<TheMuso> but that will be sorted in the next day or so I'd say, it needs to be binary newed.
<persia> Ah.  Too bad.
<persia> Oh.  That's easy then :)
<TheMuso> but brltty has been uploaded as well
<TheMuso> binary newed, and placed in main.
<TheMuso> Anyway, really out of here now.
<persia> Good night, and thanks for the advice about speech + jack.
<TheMuso> persia: np
<zul> freaking snow
<txwikinger2> where?
<txwikinger2> I want some
 * persia is also experiencing a snow shortage: please throw it back up, so it has a chance to get a little further around the globe
<txwikinger2> If we get snow now, we will get early holidays
<zul> sure you can have 31cm of what we got last night
<txwikinger2> I take it
<zul> oh sorry 37cm of snow
<txwikinger2> take that too :)
<txwikinger2> No snow in the forecast here ;(
<txwikinger2> Well, I guess this means 3.5 more working days
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<txwikinger2> Hi ScottK
<ScottK> If anyone is looking for an easy merge to do (or perhaps one for their mentee), peercast is available...
<ScottK> Hello txwikinger2
<txwikinger2> cool... we might have a withe christmas
<txwikinger2> white even
 * dholbach hugs the MOTU Heroes
<imbrandon> moins dholbach ScottK txwikinger2 zul persia and *
<imbrandon> ( wow everyone got hilighted )
<DaveMorris> would appear son
<ScottK> heya imbrandon.  How's the snow?
<imbrandon> none new comming, we dident get as much as expected
<imbrandon> and still cold as h*ll so its staying on the ground
<imbrandon> hehe
<ScottK> Good.
<imbrandon> but good news is its only 2 or 3 inches and no mroe comming ( soon )
<imbrandon> hehe
<ScottK> We're heading that way on Thursday and our 13 year old is really hoping for a white Christmas.
<ScottK> That should be enough if it stays cold.
<imbrandon> yup, it should still be here thursday
<imbrandon> the roads are all cleared off now but everywhere else its sticking arround
<effie_jayx> ok I am back from my trip and I need a little help
<ScottK> Well we're leaving Thursday.  It's a ~21 hour drive, so we'll be there on Friday...
<effie_jayx> I want to learn how to read reports from merges
<effie_jayx> I was trying to merge mgetty but It got done
<imbrandon> ScottK: if your in town for a few days and have time we should grab that coffee/beer while your here
<effie_jayx> I have read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Merging-and-Syncing
<effie_jayx> and I get stuck in the part where they start reading the changes
 * imbrandon 's birthday is wednesday
<ScottK> imbrandon: Definitely.  Gate Bar-q-que
<imbrandon> yup yup
<ScottK> Gate/Gate's
<effie_jayx> http://merges.ubuntu.com/m/mgetty/REPORT no problems where encountered during the merge
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Do you want an easy one that still needs doing?
<effie_jayx> now If I understand this well I must test the merger by generating a patch and applying it and seeing if it works?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  mmmkeyy
<imbrandon> ScottK: heh wife just looked over my shoulder and said "Tell Him Jack Stack is better"
<ScottK> You must also review each of the changes and make sure they are still needed.
<effie_jayx> but let me  see if I understand how I go about them
<zul> snow sucks
<ScottK> imbrandon: Jack Stack seems very corporate to me.  Personally, I like Arthur Bryant's the best, but it's on the other side of town.
<ScottK> zul: Either get over it or move.
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> ScottK: yea jack stack was great when it was just "smoke stack" in martin city, but i havent been lately
<zul> ScottK: oh i wish i could move
<ScottK> effie_jayx: peercast needs doing and only has one small Ubuntu change.
<imbrandon> zul: come to KC :)
<effie_jayx> ok
<zul> imbrandon: not from what I seen on "Cops" ;)
<imbrandon> zul: there is plenty of jobs here for your field, i could hook you up with some
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ok.
<imbrandon> zul: hahah
<ScottK> imbrandon: My actual favorite is a small place in Kansas City, KS called "The Hickory Log".  You won't have heard of it.  I lived near there growing up and we used to go regularly.
<imbrandon> ahh yea, no idea about that one
<ScottK> zul: You wouldn't want life to be to boring.
<ScottK> zul: Oh, wait.  You're Canadian.  ;-)
<zul> ScottK: its a national past time to complain about the amount of snow
<imbrandon> my actualy fav resturant here in town is Buldogs, its like applebys+bbq but good
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> bulldogs*
<ScottK> Where is that?
<imbrandon> 18th and Main
<imbrandon> downtown
<ScottK> Ah.  I haven't been there.
<imbrandon> ( few blocks from where i work hehe )
<imbrandon> so we go quite a bit
<ScottK> I see.  That makes it easier.
<imbrandon> i work just off 20th and broadway, next to the orig Herferd House
<imbrandon> and all that stuff
<ScottK> Right.  I know just where that is.
<ScottK> My Dad's company (when I was growing up) was just across the river in Riverside, MO.
<imbrandon> btw where are you now? i thought you were closer than 21 hours away
<imbrandon> heh
<ScottK> Outside Baltimore, MD.
<imbrandon> ahh
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  this is the bit I am trying to figure out "You should compare the generated patch against the patch for the Ubuntu version given above and ensure that there are no unexpected changes..." <---- debdiff?   "...You should also sanity check the source package. ..."
<imbrandon> for some reason i thought you were on the far side of KC
<imbrandon> err kS
<ScottK> imbrandon: Heading west we just take turns driving, hand the children to the Grandparents when we arrive, and then go crash.
<imbrandon> heh yup
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Debdiff is a good way to do it.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Also then look at the updated package from Debian and see if there are any obvious problems with then (generally not).
<imbrandon> ScottK: btw i just got done talking to pitti about flash, looks like i'll be doing a modified version of your sugestion, and the current stuff in -porposed just got removed
<imbrandon> ScottK: e.g. do the 60mb thing for dapper to gutsy, and new stuff for hardy
<imbrandon> not new for hardy + gutsy
<imbrandon> i'm actualy working on the script now to do that
<ScottK> Cool.
<imbrandon> btw before i whip up a shell script anyone know of a cli mass id3 tagger based on filename ?
<imbrandon> e.g. where i have the files in "%artist - %song.mp3" and want it to mass remove existing tags and update based on filenames
<_ruben> hmm .. wonder what im (obviously) missing here .. i cant get pbuilder to install stuff from universe
<imbrandon> _ruben: you have to enable universe in the chroot something similar to ... "pbuilder login --save-after-login" and edit the /etc/apt/sources.list and apt-get update, then exit
<_ruben> imbrandon: lets give that a try
<_ruben> imbrandon: worked like charm, thanks
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> ( probably want to do multiverse too if you dident , and $dist-updates )
<effie_jayx> ScottK, when I read  the REPORT file... and it reads http://merges.ubuntu.com/p/peercast/REPORT
<effie_jayx> I get a little lost reading the report and that is bad
<imbrandon> $dist-updates only if you are working on a release thats not hardy
<effie_jayx> I should compare the generated patch ="generated: 0.1217.toots.20060314-5ubuntu1"
<effie_jayx> the ubuntu version prior to that "0.1217.toots.20060314-4ubuntu1"
<effie_jayx> am I right?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Yes.  Also look at -4 to -4ubuntu1 to make sure nothing bad got added by the merge scripts.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  and I should look at -5 as wel?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Sorry.  I meant -5 to -5ubuntu1.
<ScottK> Got lost in my revisions there.
<mruiz> hi all. I need a review for the bug 176714, please ...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176714 in vpnc "Please merge vpnc 0.5.1r254-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176714
<effie_jayx> ScottK, then I generate one debdiff between patches the old and the new
<effie_jayx> when you say check... you man generate a debdiff to see any things added in the debian package that is not in the patch?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Yes.  Look at the debdiff and make sure you understand what changes are there and why (for the Debian changes it's enough to make sure they are documented in debian/changelog).
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  fine...
<effie_jayx> thanks
<ScottK> effie_jayx: You might also look at the change that caused an Ubuntu unique package and see about filing a bug in Debian about it.
<ScottK> The goal being to get rid of the diff and go back to being able to use the Debian package unmodified.
<effie_jayx> ScottK, debdiffs are long
<effie_jayx> most of the changes refer to changes in directories...
<effie_jayx> and some depend libs
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Even the -5 to -5ubuntu1 diff?
 * effie_jayx thinks
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  no... just old package to new package
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Look at the debian/changelog entry and see if it makes sense.  From reading the changelog, I suspect it does.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I can see changes done to debian/rules so I guess the -5ubuntu must contain the postrm script...
<effie_jayx> should I unpack to check the change in rule?
<effie_jayx> the rest of the changes are there
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable.
<effie_jayx> dependency change
<ScottK> Yes.
<effie_jayx> and the change of standards
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  so unpack and check?
<ScottK> Yes.
<effie_jayx> ok
<hippu> hippu, could someone review my patch to bug #176736?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176736 in tuxguitar "Tuxguitar isn't building, missing dependency" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176736
<hippu> ugh, i meant hi instead of my own nick
<brettalton> have I come to the right place for information on how to make my own repository?
<effie_jayx> ScottK2,  I saw the diference in the patches ... everything is there... all changes in the debian/control from the debian source
<nxvl_work> Riddell: around?
<Riddell> hi nxvl_work
<nxvl_work> Riddell: hi, i have a problem with qt4-x11
<nxvl_work> Riddell: i have seen it's reported on LP but not worked
<nxvl_work> bug #115970
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115970 in qt4-x11 "qtconfig-qt4 doesn't start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115970
<Riddell> nxvl_work: yep, looks like a problem
<Riddell> I'm a bit busy for it currently
<nxvl_work> Riddell: that ok, did have any idea where the problem can be, so i can check it?
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Then I'd say test the new revision, prepare a debdiff, and attach it to a bug.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  cool
<Riddell> nxvl_work: could try reverting to an older version of qt4
<nxvl_work> Riddell: i mean on the source
<Riddell> nope
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  ok.. I am building a package
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  there is no major bug fix in this one... shall I just report a sync from debian kinda stuff?
<ScottK> Does the Debian package have the change that we made in Ubuntu?  If not it's still a merge.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I tried looking into the change that generated the merges
<effie_jayx> but It was only the epiphany sugest
<effie_jayx> for epiphany-browser
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Yes.  That's the change.  So your debdiff for the merge would include that and the debian/changelog entries.
<pochu> Hey MOTUs and MOTU padawans! :)
<huats> hey pochu
<mruiz> hey pochu :-)
<pochu> hey huats and mruiz
<RainCT> hi pochu
<slicer> If anyone can do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble , I'm around for the next few hours.
<pochu> heya RainCT :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pochu> howdy bddebian
<bddebian> Hi pochu
<mruiz> bye all
<effie_jayx> ScottK, should I add my name to the changelog then?
<effie_jayx> new upstream version and that's it?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  just checked debian/control and the epiphany change is there now
<ScottK> effie_jayx: It's not a new upstream version, just a new Debian revision and yes, your name should be in debian/changelog
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  so... what do I write in the changelog entry.. do I specify all the debian changes...
<effie_jayx> ?
<pochu> effie_jayx: All the changes you have done.
<pochu> effie_jayx: do you know dch? :)
<effie_jayx> pochu,  I did nothing
<effie_jayx> just test
<effie_jayx> the debian mantainer made a lot of changes... I did nothing
<pochu> Then it's a sync, isn't it?
 * pochu reads backwards
<effie_jayx> pochu,  yes
<effie_jayx> it was a merge but now the change that originated the merging has been reflected on debian
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Did the Debian Maintainer make the dependency change (I don't see it in his debian/changelog)?
<pochu> effie_jayx: is the epyphany suggest included in the debian package?
<effie_jayx> pochu,  it is not
<effie_jayx> there isn't a suggests line
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  there isn't a suggests line
<effie_jayx> sorry
<pochu> effie_jayx: then you need to add it, and document it in debian/changelog
<pochu> effie_jayx: for modifying debian/changelog, use the dch tool. It's in the devscripts package.
<effie_jayx> pochu,  got it
<effie_jayx> pochu,  I know it
<pochu> Cool :)
<effie_jayx> so let me see...
<leonel> scottK hello !  new clamav 0.92.0  Looks like  it's not a  security  update
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks for checking.  I looked for you when I got the message.
<ScottK> leonel: I agree from looking at the Changelog.  I'm updating the package now.
<leonel> ScottK upgrading for hardy ?
<ScottK> Yes
<leonel> SWEET!
<ScottK> We'll let it settle a bit and then do a backport in a few weeks I'd think.
<leonel> scottK if you need to test it  just let me know
<ScottK> leonel: Will do.
<leonel> scottK and not only  for clamav  if there's a package  I can test  just let me know
<ScottK> Sure.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  the suggests: is in peercast-handlers where in what file do I add the change
<ScottK> effie_jayx: debian/control.  Have a look at the current Ubuntu package to see exactly how.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> when i specify a command that deletes a folder in a postrm file (because its not removed automatically), the folder is not there after a reinstall of the package
<Kopfgeldjaeger> why?
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I saw it... :D
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  sorry... the change is there
<effie_jayx> pochu,  the hange is there...
 * effie_jayx was looking in the wrong pacage in debian/control
<effie_jayx> is there a need for my changelog entry still
<effie_jayx> ?
<pochu> If all the changes are included in Debian now, then not. You should request a sync instead.
<pochu> effie_jayx: ^
<effie_jayx> pochu, ok
<effie_jayx> pochu,  should I test the package first?
<pochu> effie_jayx: a test-build would be nice. If you can test it too the better :)
<effie_jayx> pochu,  I'll do both
<effie_jayx> thanks ScottK  and pochu ... I learned lots
<Ubulette> good, i've fixed my "internal error, failed to initialize HAL!".  no more reboot for a month, at least :)
<leonel> scottK just warming up  ..  when I builded  clamav 0.92rc2 no problems now  we got libclamav.so.3
<leonel> scottK should all be named  libclamav3 ?
<ScottK> leonel: Probably.  Urgh.
<\sh> remoins
<\sh> ok...now my homedatacenter is ready to rumble....
<\sh> /dev/sda6             322G  3,4G  318G   2% /home
<\sh> /dev/sdb1             466G  544K  466G   1% /mnt
<\sh>  I think that should be enough for hosting some ubuntu archives
<warp10> Hi all!
<Ubulette> yesterday, i had a dedicated 320G filled with mostly mozilla builds
<ScottK> \sh: Have you had a chance to look at the newer WINE package on REVU?
<\sh> ScottK, nope...I thought scott ritchie is valuable enough for not having any review at all....
<\sh> looks really like that I have to reapply for motuship and push those stuff in
<Riddell> nxvl_work: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/115970/comments/2
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115970 in qt4-x11 "qtconfig-qt4 doesn't start" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ScottK> \sh: OK.  Please do.
 * ScottK hasn't had a lot of time to look at stuff recently.
<nxvl_work> Riddell: replied, i think it's maybe a depend problem
 * RainCT wonders wheter there is a way to filter bugs about crashes to see only those for Python applications
<tsmithe> anyone want to review a package for me? mscore (music notation program a la sibelius) is welcome for some love: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mscore
<joumetal> I have a question about motu-security.
<\sh> ok...debmirror --nosource --method=rsync dapper, edgy,feisty gutsy --section=* --arch=i386,amd64 and go
<\sh> joumetal, fire
<joumetal> there is one bug comment about dapper that says one program has vulnerable version in dapper.
<joumetal> I could give number or any information.
<\sh> joumetal, which one?
<joumetal> bug 117395
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117395 in alsaplayer "Alsaplayer crashes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/117395
<\sh> joumetal, so , do you have any CVE IDs for those security issues? if there are security fixes for it, we can fix this, but no new upstream version for dapper, sorry
<Riddell> nxvl_work: that's old versions of qt, upgrade to the newest
<joumetal> CVE-2007-5301?
<ubotu> Buffer overflow in the vorbis_stream_info function in input/vorbis/vorbis_engine.c (aka the vorbis input plugin) in AlsaPlayer before 0.99.80-rc3 allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via a .OGG file with long comments. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5301)
<nxvl_work> Riddell: i have my system up to date
<nxvl_work> Riddell: i'm using gutsy
<joumetal> smart bot :)
<\sh> joumetal, please add this information to the bug report (link CVE) and subscribe motu-swat thx
<joumetal> thanks.
<\sh> joumetal, and please set the report to a security bug report via set privacy/security...
<joumetal> ok done that.
<Riddell> nxvl_work: oh, hrm
<\sh> joumetal, thx
<leonel> scottK many  many  references to libclamav2   those should be changed to  libclamav3  right ??
<ScottK> leonel: I haven't had time to really look into it, but I believe that's the case.
<leonel> I know  just  guessing  ...
<leonel> and tryng to make the new deb  ..  let's see how it goes ..
<\sh> hmkmm...does anyone see this,too ? apt-get install linux32 and then it tries to remove ubuntu-minimal?
<ScottK> leonel: Because of the soname bump, I'm not going to upload this one right away.  I'm going to wait for Debian to upload it to make sure we don't get cross-threaded.
<slangasek> ScottK: which is coming soon, http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2007/12/msg00113.html
<slangasek> (it's already in Debian new queue)
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
<ScottK> slangasek: I can tell you for one item on that list (klamav), then Debian version in Sid/Lenny is already hopelessly broken so there's no need to even bother with a rebuild.
<slangasek> heh
<ScottK> slangasek: Do you know the Klamav maintainer: Florent Bayle http://packages.qa.debian.org/k/klamav.html - he seems to have lost interest in Klamav.
<Adri2000> Hippuu: around?
<slangasek> ScottK: can't say that I do, no
<ScottK> slangasek: OK.  I'll see if I can generate some interest around maintaining our package in Debian and if he's willing to give it up.
<ScottK> Thanks
<Adri2000> Hippuu: I don't know if you were seeking sponsoring for the tuxguitar bug (as u-u-s is not subscribed), but I anyway added a comment about your debdiff
<leonel> scottK  clamav 0.92  debs  done  :)  My  first  big update  i mean   changing things in   debian/*   let's see if it installs  and  works  ...
<sommer> hey all, is there going to be a qa session on friday?
<geser> sommer: iirc will dholbach hold them every friday
<sommer> geser: cool just wanted to make sure... with x-mas and all
<geser> sommer: try asking dholbach (here during the european day)
<sommer> geser: okay, will do
<johnny> is the channel meant to be used to just packaging for ubuntu upstream? or also for those who might need help making custom packages until fixed upstream versions are released?
<ScottK> RainCT: I'm not sure about the maintainer thing.  I'd send a mail to devel-discuss asking.
<poOrBOon> hi
<poOrBOon> Everything works :D
<poOrBOon> But
<poOrBOon> I want my ubuntu look like vista, I just mean the transparent window borders
<poOrBOon> do I need emerald?? people don't recommend it
<geser> compiz should be enough
<poOrBOon> I have compiz.. but do you know a theme that makes my windows look like vista??
<poOrBOon> There is none that has transparency
<geser> for transparency in the window borders you need emerald
<leonel> ScottK there's a new  lib  for   libclamunrar    for clamav   should I :  1  include in  libclamav3.install  or   2  do a   libclamunrar3.install and add  it to debian/rules  ??
<poOrBOon> people in #compiz-fusion don't recommend it
<geser> have they a better suggestion?
<ScottK> leonel: The new Clamav is in Debian NEW right now.  I'd suggest we just wait for it.
<leonel> scottK PLOP   ok  but for learning  thing .. what should be better ?
<leonel> ScottK the package build now and installs but needs   libclamunrar  that gets generated with the new clamav ...
<ScottK> leonel: Dunno.  I think I'd include it in libclamav3.install.
<leonel> scottK OK
<leonel> thanks
<poOrBOon> No the didn't say anything
<johnny> isnt' this the wrong channel for questions about making ubuntu look like vista?
<johnny> considering more relevant questions are not being answered
<poOrBOon> motu? I thought you know everything :D
<pochu> We know.
<pochu> ;-)
<poOrBOon> hihi
<_MMA_> poOrBOon: Search Ubuntu Forums or Gnome-Look. You should find all yo uneed.
<pochu> Well not me, but MOTUs :-)
<poOrBOon> I searched gnome-look, that why I am here dudes
<leonel> ScottK if this package works like  debian's   will be  a great step for me   thank you
<poOrBOon> only the emerald themes look good
<_MMA_> poOrBOon: This isnt a support channel. ;)
<poOrBOon> but, I heard emerald and compiz hate each other.. not recommended
<Kopfgeldjaeger> to whom should i assign a bug like "xy outdated" ?
<pochu> Kopfgeldjaeger: tag it as 'upgrade'
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ok, thx
<geser> nobody unless you have a new package for sponsoring
<RainCT> poOrBOon: emerald works good here
<Kopfgeldjaeger> there is a package on revu (by me, and anyother by somebody else), geser
<poOrBOon> with compiz-fusion??
<poOrBOon> @RainCT I don't want to f*** my supa os by doing stupid things. that's why I ask the MOTUs. if installing a+b ist dumb or absoluteley ok a=compiz ; b=emerald
<_MMA_> poOrBOon: Please take it to a support channel or a PM. This isn't a support channel.
<poOrBOon> ok ok
<poOrBOon> exit
<harrisony> If a package has a missing reccomeded dependency would I create a debdiff and upload it to the report and then assign the bug to a team?
<imbrandon> never assign anyone
<Nafallo> imbrandon: yourself?
<imbrandon> subscribe possibly, NEVER assign
<imbrandon> Nafallo: bah
<imbrandon> lol
<Nafallo> imbrandon: I assign myself anyway :-)
 * pochu lols at http://ubuntuircstats.org/ubuntu-motu.html
<pochu> Most used words word	occurrences
<pochu> 1	"persia"	215
<pochu> persia: told you :P
<ikonia> I'd appriciate an update on bug https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hawaii/+members
<ikonia> oosp
<ikonia> oops
<ikonia> 173890
<pochu> bug 173890
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173890 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree fails to install... new version?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173890
<ikonia> imbrandon has put in a lot of effort but I'd like to understand the current development brandon is working on
<ikonia> pochu: yes, I've read the bug report
<pochu> ikonia: It was for me and others :)
<ikonia> ahh
<ikonia> sorry
<imbrandon> ikonia: i put an update on it, and refrenced a devel thread
<johnny> so, would you say this is a channel that supports ubuntu packagers
<imbrandon> explaining the sate and an eta
<johnny> but does it also support those who are learning to build ubuntu packages for personal usage until proper patches are submitted upstream?
<ikonia> imbrandon: yeah, I read the update, seems reasonable I'm trying to understand the failures in konqueror and opera
<ikonia> imbrandon: I assume you read my comments on the bug about seperating the checksum issue and the functionality issues
<imbrandon> they are explained in the devel mail, they dont support XEmbed
<imbrandon> ikonia: yea i read it, its not fesable
<ikonia> yes, I picked up on that, but they do actually install sucssesfully
<ikonia> imbrandon: ok, perfect, thank you
<johnny> yes or no? so i can start asking questions or go somewhere else
<imbrandon> yes it installes, but i cant push an update that segfaults on those browsers
<johnny> and hopefully help others
<johnny> here that is
<ikonia> imbrandon that was where I was going
<ikonia> imbrandon: as the origional bug was the checksum failure, the actual plugin issues are a different issue
<imbrandon> johnny: you can ask here but we wont support anything thats not the proper way
<ikonia> imbrandon: but I of course will assist and follow your suggestion
<johnny> the "proper way"
<johnny> what's that?
<imbrandon> ikonia: right but as part of the sru team i refuse to knowingly break the others
<ikonia> imbrandon: and I support that
<ikonia> imbrandon: my only query on that was it's currently broke anyway
<imbrandon> so the bugs have to both be fixed
<ikonia> ok, fair enough, if thats the root you want to take, sounds good
<imbrandon> ikonia: and it will stay that way untill i prepare the new solution as stated in the bug and devel ml
<ikonia> ok, no problem
<imbrandon> ikonia: its not just what i want, its the only way
<ikonia> I'm catching up on the mailing archives
<ikonia> imbrandon: bad choice of wording
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> johnny: as in the way it would need to be to go into the archive
<ikonia> imbrandon: also that should be route, not root
<imbrandon> :)
<johnny> i'm more interested in interacting with upstream
<johnny> rather than just packaging upstream
<johnny> to make it possible that the patch can be integrated into the archives
<johnny> err package
<leonel> scottK  clamav 0.92 builded  installed and working  now  here ..   now let's check  debian's package
<johnny> for example
<johnny> i have some issues with sabayon , and i'm trying to interact with upstream, but i need to know how to use ubuntu packaging to be able to test it
<johnny> and then the ubuntu packagers can take a tested deb and just use it
<imbrandon> your definition of "upstream" is not clear enough for me to tell what you mean, upstream can mean many things, upstream as in debian?
<johnny> aha
<johnny> no.. upstream upstream
<johnny> the real package upstream
<imbrandon> package != upstream
<johnny> application upstream
<johnny> application/library/script, etc
<imbrandon> terminoligy conflict here, ok go back to basics and tell me exactly what you want even with programs names and i'll atleaste get you pointed in the right direction
<johnny> well, the package can vary, since i'm using lots of applications inrelation to ltsp
<johnny> so, that's gnome, ltsp, and other random supporting programs
<imbrandon> ok right, but as an example you have libfoo on sourceforge
<imbrandon> start there
<johnny> i know how to talk to devs :)
<imbrandon> ok talk to me
<johnny> i have spoken to federico for example
<johnny> who maintains sabayon
<johnny> he told me that he will accepted my tested patches
<imbrandon> sure
<johnny> so, i need to know how to properly use the ubuntu packaging env , so i can deploy and test the fixed packages
<johnny> after which, the patches will be accepted
<ikonia> johnny: there is a great guide on https://help.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> ok so why not take it the last step if your going that far ( monhs of work ) and just upload it to the dev release
<johnny> i will be
<imbrandon> months*
<johnny> oh wait
<johnny> dev release?
<johnny> which dev release? :)
<imbrandon> e.g hardy, we do just exactly what you are wanting
<johnny> but hardy is not in my env
<imbrandon> its our job as motu
<johnny> and won't be
<johnny> hardy will get the fixed upstream eventually i'm sure
<johnny> either through debian or not
<imbrandon> ok then why mess with the deb packages just work pure upstream
<johnny> because i need to deploy it in my ubuntu env
<johnny> so i can test the packages
<imbrandon> then you need to be working in a hardy env
<imbrandon> thats the only way really
<johnny> my packages will be gutsy, but the patches will make it upstream, and then to hardy i'm sure
<ajmitch> but being able to test out patches in a real environment is also rather useful
<johnny> i will not be distributing the packages
<johnny> outside of my env
<imbrandon> johnny: ok then ... your kinda going about it backwords but ...
<johnny> only due the fact that hardy is currently undeployable
<johnny> but when it is.. you guys will already be working on something else :)
<johnny> and i know the patches will be too big to make it into gutsy itself
<imbrandon> i'm on hardy right now , what do you mean undeployable? use in a stable env yes, but your not going to be in a stable env your going to be applying untested patches
<johnny> sure.. but that's only for one application
<johnny> instead of the entire env
<imbrandon> hrm ok anyhow it matters not if you arent going to pass them out, the exact same proceedures apply
<imbrandon> just look at the hardy process and aply it to gutsy
<johnny> if i end up having to deploy more things,i will try to do the leg work to get it accepted for hardy
<johnny> but first i have to know what i'm doing :)
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> however you want to look at it
<johnny> i had quite a time just learning to run pbuilder and friends
<johnny> i cme from a slightly different process background when it comes to deployment
<johnny> i've been using gentoo for 5 years.. and packaging for it is dead simple
<johnny> ebuilds are much easier than running all the pbuilder stuff
<johnny> and apt-get source etc
<imbrandon> right all the more reason to learn the development way , but if you just want to hack then there is no reason to even make debs
<johnny> because that's the way to get me started in learning to package other ubuntu apps
<johnny> like our point of sale program
<imbrandon> just hack the source, install and pass patches
<johnny> our point of sale program is currenly unpackaged
<imbrandon> learing to package on a stable release is not recomeneded, thats what i'm trying to explain
<imbrandon> later you can apply those same ideas to stable
<johnny> sure, but i need fixes in my stable release :)
<johnny> sabayon is completely busted in stable
<johnny> if you use it for even longer than few minutes
<imbrandon> ...
<johnny> but that's not due to ubuntu tho
<johnny> that's gnome itself
<johnny> upstream gnome bugs prevent the application from working even after a few changes
<johnny> save your profile, don't kow which files not apply, and bam.. it'll crash
<johnny> when you reopen it
<johnny> so folks who do use gutsy and require sabayon, might want something that does work
<johnny> but i do know gutsy devs will never accept it
<johnny> so i will want it fixed in hardy for sure :)
<imbrandon> johnny: sure but i've tried to explain to you the way to acheve that is fix it in the dev release and have it backported
<imbrandon> we are all the same devs
<johnny> aha.. backports.. i meant to ask about that
<johnny> is there a list of what is acceptible to backport?
<johnny> vs what can be pushed idrectly into a stable release?
<imbrandon> what is in the dv release can be considered for backport
<imbrandon> and stable updtaes only gets major regression fixes
<johnny> how about a feature that was explitly mentioned as working in the uhmm "press release" but doesn't
<johnny> like autologin in the edubuntu press release
<imbrandon> depends on how invasive the fix is
<johnny> aha.. good to know
<johnny> thanks for your time imbrandon , trying to reconcile a no real "release" distro vs this situation was kinda difficult
<johnny> i think i have a better handle on it
<imbrandon> and nothing gets pushed directly into stable releases, it all goes into the dev release and then -proposed then backports or -updates
<johnny> i'll try to get a hardy setup going at some point in virtualbox
<johnny> when i make my own hacked debs
<imbrandon> good call :)
<imbrandon> you could also make a hardy pbuilder on gutsy
<imbrandon> that will do most of that for you
<johnny> there are almost too many cross purpose tools in .deb creation/maintenence
<johnny> at least some of them are just frontends for others
<johnny> but it is confusing for n00bs
<johnny> even experienced linux users
<johnny> but are just n00bs to debian packaging
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  the package worked ok
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I am requesting a sync since the change is already in debian
<effie_jayx> it is missing the browser bit
<somerville32> Should I remove Vcs- fields from debian?
 * effie_jayx is not being carefull enough
<dx9s_work> have a simple question .. (sort of) ... but I expect a more complicated answer?
<dx9s_work> actually a list of questions...
<dx9s_work> is there a way to automatically install the "-dev" packages (aka the headers files) in any way based on some list or criteria or system wide?
<dx9s_work> (that was #1)
<dx9s_work> #2) is there a way to rebuild a list of packages from source?
<dx9s_work> and #3) get a list off all things installed that depend on a particular library
<dx9s_work> what I want to do is rebuild everything from source that depends on a library I've manually updated to a newer library (and headers)... in this case libjack
<dx9s_work> (my complaint with "debian" packages is that it normally doesn't install the headers files for a library... this is different from what I am used to with slackware packages... which always installs the header files with a "dependable" package
<gilir> Hi :)
<dx9s_work> hello
<gilir> is there someone available and very nice to review awn-extras-applets on REVU ? :)
<Fujitsu> dx9s_work: That is ugly, not a development question, and will not be supported here.
<dx9s_work> Fujitsu, what tools are used for scripting the build process (for .debs) ... curious It is really easy with SlackBuild (DL the slackbuild files and run the build script).
<dx9s_work> I am sure somebody in the ubuntu world has automated this.. I just want access to those files!
<dx9s_work> and the tools
<Fujitsu> dx9s_work: It is particularly evil because you have left the package system.
<Fujitsu> *packaging
<dx9s_work> If I could get the package for libjack.. I would update it first
<geser> dx9s_work: the buildds use the published debs to build/compile a package
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: Slack build scripts do not in any way check for failure to build from source.
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: Debian/Ubuntu package building has strong error checking, so if a part of a apckage build fails, the package does not get built.
<dx9s_work> right .. I am an old slackware guy.. about 6 month w/ ubuntu.. and there are things I like and dislike..
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: I used slackware for 3 years.
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: Some of that time was spent maintaining a slackware package repository.
<dx9s_work> (well since 0.99rX days go me)
<dx9s_work> for me that is
<TheMuso> Once I got involved with Ubuntu development afterwards, I was amazed at how poor the general quality of building slackware packages was, especially when it came to 3rd-party packages.
<dx9s_work> I am interested in the scripting used w/ ubuntu for maintaining the repo... if I have to make my own and then upgrade to newer stuff -- but interested in getting changes done within the .deb system
<TheMuso> Pat's packages were ok, and the build scripts were written with the assumption that the package would build successfully.
<TheMuso> !packagingguide | dx9s_work
<ubotu> dx9s_work: packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: Will show you how its done
<dx9s_work> there are "okay" getslack tools . .but yeah I like the depos for .deb and ubuntu .. but still yearn for the days of having my own customized repos...
<StevenK> Creating your own repository for binary and source packages is fairly simple
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: Well its more complex than just throwing tarballs in a directory.
<dx9s_work> is there any short cuts... like instead of building .deb ... going directly from some "deb-src" to installing?
<TheMuso> Since you have to take care of metadata and dependencies
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Not much more.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah I know. But it depends on how much like the main repos you want your personal one to be.
<dx9s_work> I'd be happy installing from source via some semi-structure dependency thing... more like Gentoo's process when installing from source but not as overkill!
<dx9s_work> no "command -blah libjack" to cause the system to download the source and recompile against a new library
<dx9s_work> recompile and install (skipping .deb)
<StevenK> Skipping .deb? How else do you install it?
<dx9s_work> inside or outside a packaging system.. outside .. ./configure ... or scons .. or whatever
<Fujitsu> Ew. Why?
<StevenK> What Fujitsu said
<Fujitsu> We have a packaging system for a reason.
<dx9s_work> directly from source.. but the packaging system never learns you updated a dependency and MAY want to recompile against new headers/libs
<TheMuso> ewwwww
<dx9s_work> I am curious.. there is NO way to install from some "deb-src" .. you hafta make a .deb?! (or temporarily make one and discard post install)
<StevenK> Er, if you don't update the Debian packaging the automatically generated Depends won't get updated
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: No, its not like slackware where all the "package tracking system" does is keeps a record of what files belong to what package.
<StevenK> If you bump ABI and don't change shlibs, things might break
<dx9s_work> exactly.. I am sure... the way the dependencies are done.. that a little change in updating one library will / can? cause a ripple effect and automatically recompile other stuff. I wanna USE those scripts and processing within the .deb system... I will read the packaging system .. but was wondering if there is way to install from deb-src directly (skipping .deb files all together while updating the database of installed stuff)
 * Fujitsu is confused. The source packages exist to build the debs.
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: No, thers not.,
<dx9s_work> what.. people have to manually update each .deb from deb-src?
<Fujitsu> ... yes.
<dx9s_work> then what good is a packaging system?
<StevenK> It makes certain that those .deb's will work together with some semblance of sanity?
<Fujitsu> Right, you've thoroughly confused me now.
 * TheMuso laughs out loud. This is exactly why I left slackware.
<TheMuso> Well, one of the reasons.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You have recovered well.
<dx9s_work> with slackware it doesn't attempt to match depends .. and often things work just fine...
<Fujitsu> `often'
<Fujitsu> With a sane packaging system like Debian's, it *will* work just fine.
<dx9s_work> but when it doesn't take much (ldd for example is a wonderful tool) to figure out what you are missing
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: And often they don't.
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: Sorry, ^^
<dx9s_work> well not.. I've had issues with .deb .. having to manually fight it..
<dx9s_work> I am not here to flame a which is better
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: I spent half a day once trying to work out why cups didn't work, having to crank up debug logs just to get can't find shared library errors.
<dx9s_work> stop that
<dx9s_work> now
<dx9s_work> I am wanting to know the process
<dx9s_work> for .deb from src
<Fujitsu> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: ah!?
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: Sorry, wrong person.
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: heh, k
<nxvl_work> :D
<nxvl_work> *HUGS*
<dx9s_work> okay.. how does the package system know (or not) to update other things?
 * StevenK moves TheMuso's gun barrel to point at dx9s_work 
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Are you using inverse tab completion, or something.
<Fujitsu> dx9s_work: You do it manually.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: No, slight confusion as to the two starting letters of the nick.
<dx9s_work> okay so still some manual work like in slackware .. -k-
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Remarkably similar suffixes.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yes.
<TheMuso> But that day with slackware and cups was just about the final straw for me
<StevenK> dx9s_work: Yes, but if you do the work, no one else has to.
<dx9s_work> I was hoping the system had SOME automation...
<TheMuso> Dependency hell indeed.
<Fujitsu> dx9s_work: It is not a normal use case to bump a library ABI on a local system.
<dx9s_work> well getting a list of all things that *CAN* depend on a .deb (library) and then further seeing what's currently installed is a simple task
<dx9s_work> well libjack 0.103.0 is flaky.. updating to ~0.107.7 (in my case) solved a lot of things.. just wanna grab all the sources that depend on the 0.103.0 and recompile them
<Fujitsu> Does it change ABI?
<dx9s_work> there is a break in backwards compatibility between 0.102.20 and 0.103.0 if that is what you are asking
<dx9s_work> for example the latest version of "0.100.0" is 0.102.20
<dx9s_work> (like a virtual thing)
<slangasek> no, it's not a virtual thing, it's an soname
<slangasek> the latest version of libjack0.100.0-0 in Ubuntu is version 0.103.0
<slangasek> they're forwards-compatible, or so say the upstream build rules
<dx9s_work> yeah.. well once you jump to 0.103.0+ (until they change the headers and calls significantly).. ... bins that depend on the "soname" 0.100.0 will not work.. have to go to 0.103.00 . and no they DON'T work ... old bins old libbs.. new bins new libs... there is a break at 0.103.0
<slangasek> ./usr/lib/libjack-0.100.0.so.0 -> libjack.so.0
 * StevenK blinks.
<slangasek> that's in the Ubuntu package
<StevenK> Parse error
<Fujitsu> We would have bumped the SONAME if that was the case.
<slangasek> so actually, it looks to me like upstream changed the soname gratuitously
<TheMuso> Or Debian would have.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Aha.
<slangasek> and the Debian maintainer corrected for it
<slangasek> (possibly at my advising, for all I know)
<dx9s_work> I know that programs compiled against the headers/libs in 0.100.0-0.102.20 cannot enumarate some calls correctly.. and visa versa .. programs compiled against newer headers/libs cannot used older libs
<dx9s_work> but the latter makes more sense
<slangasek> heh, no, not me in this case but Mario Lang
<dx9s_work> the first one doesn't .. you would think compiling against older libs means newer ones should be fine..
<slangasek> (delYsid++)
<dx9s_work> in any case
<dx9s_work> I'll read the package guide.. I was hopeing for a shortcut
<TheMuso> slangasek: He really knows his stuff.
<slangasek> yes, we have a packaging system, therefore programs compiled against newer headers/libs being run against older libs are not an issue
<dx9s_work> ??
<slangasek> dx9s_work: "versioned dependencies"
<dx9s_work> you mean program compiled against older headers/libs should work with newer libs .. that is normally true.. except libjack 0.103.0 has backwards problems
<slangasek> it doesn't
<dx9s_work> yes it does
<slangasek> not when packaged correctly. :)
<dx9s_work> I've upgraded the libjack to 0.103.0 and a distro ardour2 STOPPED being able to enumerate.. jack-rack complain about no pcm ins/outs.. etc.. it's an issue with the library not being completely backwards compatibale with older bins
<slangasek> ok
<dx9s_work> that is why I am using a few things from source.. because what's in the depos are a bit old and flaky!
<StevenK> "depos"
<dx9s_work> I'd like to figure out how to get the deb-src.. update them and the meta data with newer stuff and make newer .debs but
<dx9s_work> talking offical ubuntu repo . (depos is a term from HP-UX I accidentally slipped on that .. sorry)
<slangasek> dx9s_work: "using a few things from source" - it would be nice if you would also submit bug reports against the packages, if you have evidence that they're broken. :)
<slangasek> the enumeration error is only an ABI problem if rebuilding the app fixes it, though; it could just be breakage in the library, not backwards-incompatibility
<dx9s_work> well I've spoken with some of the ardour folks as well and it's not just me .. most have no problems working from source... I was curious as to the scripting process for making .deb's from deb-src .. I've many times have grab (in slackware world) the slackbuilds and just updated the source and changed (enabled different compile-time options) then pushed out the .tgz to several servers.
<slangasek> well, you were already given the answer for making .debs, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<dx9s_work> ty
<dx9s_work> just now need to learn a few other tools to get a list of all things that depend on libjack (it's in there someplace :P )
 * TheMuso bets a million bucks that very few people in the slackware community kow what a chroot is.
<TheMuso> in relation to building packages
<dx9s_work> use it many times to fix  unbootable machines
<dx9s_work> from a recovery cd
<StevenK> "in relation to building packages"
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: sudo apt-get build-dep jack-audio-connection-kit
<TheMuso> Will get you jack's build dependencies.
<Fujitsu> Note that you'd best properly package the new jack libs first.
<slangasek> I think what he's asking for is "apt-cache rdepends libjack0" or "apt-cache rdepends libjack0.100.0"
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well people may know what chroots are in terms of chroot jails etc, and for installing systems, but not how useful t hey are for package building, and making sure you have the dependencies just right, but oh thats right, slackware frees you from dependency hell.
<StevenK> "Apparently"
<dx9s_work> seen them used in rpmbuilds and a few slackbuild scripts .. (a few)
<dx9s_work> the biggie thing I saw was building QT ... it's done in place because how QT is path sensitive.. but they installed to "QT" then /usr/lib/qt then move to /usr/lib/qt* with sym link so the link controls what version
<dx9s_work> (that was when I looked at the slackbuilds for qt, was a learning process)
 * TheMuso decides to refrain from making any more slackware comments, pointing out that if people haven't got it already, he is very bitter about slackware.
<dx9s_work> I don't care really what distro... in the end.. gimme the source... and I'll be happy... packaging systems have a learning curve all their own!
 * Fujitsu points dx9s_work at LFS.
<TheMuso> c
<Fujitsu> Ugh.
<TheMuso> ugh that should be for mutt
<dx9s_work> I know about linux from source! heh.. I've actually made stuff a long time ago run from USB drive that didn't like too!
<dx9s_work> remember I started with slackware back in the 0.99rX days
<dx9s_work> I've been using .deb's for close to 6 months now and like most of them and see many advantages over slackware's tgz's
<dx9s_work> I just wish there was some system flag I could set to have it automatically install the "*-dev"'s
<dx9s_work> apt-get install libblah.... then try to compile against that library... and oops.. forgot.. apt-get install libblah-dev..
<slangasek> dx9s_work: I've just installed the hardy ardour package here; how would I reproduce this problem you're describing?  where would I see the enumeration?
<slangasek> dx9s_work: that system is called apt-get build-dep
<dx9s_work> you installed all from current? (7.10) Gutsy?
<slangasek> no, I installed from hardy.  If I need the gutsy version of ardour to reproduce the problem I can do that, but please tell me what I'm looking for first
<dx9s_work> not up to hardy yet.. .but post 7.10 "fresh" works .. upgrading has problems.. it leaves bins compiled against older libjack ..
<dx9s_work> try to run a binary that requires >=0.100.0 against libjack 0.103.0 ... make sure the program was compiled again (say 0.102.20) .. if the depends list >= 0.103.0 then you will not have a problem.. it is in those older binaries that claim >= 0.100.0 .. they need to be a range >= 0.100.0 and < 0.103.0
<slangasek> yes, and if I have the problem, what does it /look/ like?
<dx9s_work> well the dependent program will not be able to enumerate the PCM channels the jack daemon has to offer
<dx9s_work> run a jackd (0.103.0) w/ libjack 0.103.0 and a program compiled against older libjack (and headers) and it can't enumerate the pcm channels
<dx9s_work> if you installed from anything current you won't be able to reproduce because the current stuff is compiled against newer headers
<slangasek> how do I run jackd, and where in ardour would I see that it can't enumerate the PCM channels?
<slangasek> I'm a library guy, not a sound guy
<dx9s_work> np
<dx9s_work> the first place I noticed was running older qjackctl (gui for jackd) but
<dx9s_work> jackd -R -d alsa
<dx9s_work> will start up standard server w/ conservative settings against the "default" alsa sound card
<slangasek> as root?
<slangasek> (wants realtime scheduling)
<dx9s_work> oh
<dx9s_work> right
<dx9s_work> leave -R off
<slangasek> ok
<dx9s_work> if you have security settings in /etc/security/limits.conf to allow realtime for a group .. sorry
<zul> evening
<Fujitsu> Hey zul.
<zul> Hey Fujitsu how goes it?
<Fujitsu> Fairly good Yourself?
<Fujitsu> +.
<zul> good
<dx9s_work> slangasek, it's not really a library issue (that you can fix aside from possibly flaging somehow the 0.102.20<->0.103.0 break in protocol support in the dependency database)... it's the newer librarys don't support older protocols (jackd -V) well..
<dx9s_work> I am interested in the build process for ubuntu.. so I'll have more questions.. eventually.. perhaps I might even get into unoffical .debs for people (not bleeding edge, but wanting newer src to fix problems -- like http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=1928 )
<TheMuso> dx9s_work: We have a backport repository.
<TheMuso> s/backport/backports/
<dx9s_work> (still new .. I can guess that means porting things back from / or forward to some "release")
<TheMuso> Porting things bac from the development release to the stable release.
<dx9s_work> ah
<dx9s_work> well I am not a developer, but a loose tester and finder of bugs for the ardour project (closely related to jack) ... however I have submitted one feature patch to the group
<dx9s_work> anyways.. i have some serious reading to do and experimentation/testing .. thanks for your help and direction
<dx9s_work> was hoping there might be a way to update the dependency database to reflect some break so older bins don't run with newer libs (at the aforementioned 0.102.20<->0.103.0)
<slangasek> by not listing the library under the same package name
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Can you see anything wrong with a mass-giveback in the near future?
<slangasek> Fujitsu: no
<Fujitsu> There are less than 200 on !(lpia|hppa), so it shouldn't be too bad.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-18
<slangasek> dx9s_work: so I have jackd from gutsy/hardy running now, with ardour-gtk from feisty (the last version that was built against an earlier jack), and I still don't know what I'm looking for
<fbond> I may have gotten myself into a spot of trouble with my PPA: I used versions like 0.5.0rc5 for a package.  Now that I have 0.5.0 final, dpkg thinks it is older than the release candidates.
<fbond> Can anyone offer advice?
<Fujitsu> fbond: You should have used 0.5.0~rc5.
<fbond> Fujitsu: Yeah, I learned that now.
<fbond> Any ideas as to a way out?
<fbond> Or should I just ask launchpad admins to wipe out the old packages?
<Fujitsu> You could get the package removed manually, and upload the proper version, but people with it already installed won't get it upgraded.
<fbond> Fujitsu: Lucky for me, I doubt that anyone has installed it :)
<Fujitsu>  /win 3
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: /lose 3
<Fujitsu> Quite.
<somerville32> Can't you just use epoch?
<Fujitsu> Epochs are to be avoided at all costs.
<Fujitsu> They're not to be used lightly.
 * somerville32 epochs Fujitsu 
<StevenK> 1:Fujitsu: Take that!
<Fujitsu> Blerk, Freenode doesn't support epochs.
<StevenK> You can't have : in nicks? Awww.
<Fujitsu>  1:Fujitsu Erroneous Nickname
<slangasek> Fujitsu: I dunno, I rather enjoy epoching the packages of maintainers in NMUs
<StevenK> slangasek: You would.
<slangasek> StevenK: it's the closest thing to a scarlet letter I can find in dpkg
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Ooh, that sounds fun.
<slangasek> "maintainer screwed up, EPOCH FOR LIFE"
<somerville32> lol
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> argh
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
<somerville32> Heya bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya somerville32
<bddebian> OK damnit, what is the format of dh_makeshlibs -V foo (>= 1.x) ?
<slangasek> like that but with quotes for the argument?
<bddebian> Ah, it's quotes?
<bddebian> For some reason the manpage is mangled on me
<slangasek> it's standard shell parsing
<slangasek> the argument to -V has spaces in it, so the spaces have to be escaped or quoted
<bddebian> Aye, makes sense, thanks
<bddebian> slangasek: Can I ask you a question?  Maybe in a PM?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: no.  anyone who asks slangasek questions gets killed.
<bddebian> Yeah, I kinda figured that
<bddebian> BTW, Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya!
<slangasek> bddebian: heh, go ahead
<bddebian> Hmm, now I'm scared
<slangasek> very few people ever die as a consequence of asking me questions
<TheMuso> I would have thought they would grow.
<bddebian> Is PM OK, I'd rather not air it here if that is OK
<slangasek> that's fine
<Hobbsee> slangasek: at least, those who do don't live to tell the tale..
<joejaxx> lol
<bddebian> Hobbsee: :-)
<nenolod> hmm
<nenolod> can i ask wtf is with audacious in MOTU? there has been a maintainer change from me and le_vert...
<nenolod> or more accurately, audacious core is not touched in this way, but audacious-plugins is now maintained by MOTU media team
<nenolod> which is a serious wtf o_O
<joejaxx> nenolod: what was it before?
<joejaxx> oh
<Fujitsu> nenolod: How is that a wtf? audacious-plugins likely has modifications, while audacious won't.
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> -plugins has a ubuntu modification
<nenolod> ah, right
<nenolod> what is the modification?
<joejaxx>      - Adjusted Conflicts/Replaces for Ubuntu
<nenolod> oh, ok.
<nenolod> but why does that need a maintainer change?
<joejaxx> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/a/audacious-plugins/audacious-plugins_1.4.1-2ubuntu2/changelog if you want the full log
<Fujitsu> Because Debian said we must change the maintainer on packages we modify.
<nenolod> Fujitsu, oh. ok.
<ScottK> leonel: I've discussed the new clamav with the Debian maintainer just a bit and the unrar code that was added is not DFSG free (for Debian or Ubuntu) and so will have to be removed.  We'll still have to use the free unrar library that's in the archive rather than the one provided.
<nenolod> a friend of mine is writing another free unrar library
<nenolod> i wonder how far he has gotten with that
 * pwnguin wonders why meneame isn't in debian
<pwnguin> on a related note -- anyone know why slash was dropped from universe?
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: I note there are several hundred other packages that aren't in Debian.
<Fujitsu> slash wanted PHP4, IIRC.
<Fujitsu> And probably Apache 1 too.
<Fujitsu> And was generally useless, uninstallable, etc.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> ouch
<pwnguin> Fujitsu: in my experience, software i find not in debian have reasons for not being there. it's not a lack of manpower but legal power
<pwnguin> meneame is affero licensed -- i figured perhaps there's a DFSG problem with it
<Fujitsu> We have hundreds of packages in Ubuntu but not in Debian.
<pwnguin> I don't see why you're giving me a hard time for being surpised
<ScottK> pwnguin: I don't know if it's official yet, but I think Affero (we can make you distribute stuff) license will be OK in Debian.
<ScottK> Personally, I think it's a corruption of the DFSG, but I don't get a vote.
<pwnguin> ScottK: well, you're making software available for others
<pwnguin> the means is just via html
<ScottK> No, I'm providing a service.
<slangasek> yes, only the ftpmasters get a vote. :)
<ScottK> And agpl doesn't say anything about HTML.
<pwnguin> i dont think anyone said it did
<ScottK> If your mail client connects to my mail server and I modify something that's AGPL, then I have to distribute the code.
<pwnguin> and you think this is somehow NOT dfsg?
<ScottK> So what I run on my server is no longer just my business.
<ScottK> Yes.  It forces distribution.
<pwnguin> im not seeing how that's bad
<ScottK> That's not freedom, it's coertion.
<pwnguin> the freedom not to share code?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Freedom not to share source I don't distribute binary for.
<pwnguin> well, i think it's a bit bogus to write gpl software, release it and then watch people write additions for it without handing it back, dfsg or not
<harrisony> Can someone give me a quick differnece bewteen Reccomends and Suggests (in debian/control)
<minghua> I don't understand.  I fail to see how AGPL is more coercion than GPL already is.
<ScottK> As it happens, I run all the custom software on my mail service after queue, so the mail client always talks to Postfix and it wouldn't matter, but I don't care to discolse all my tactics.
<ScottK> minghua: The difference is that by the mere act of running code on my server, I may be forced to distribute source.
<pwnguin> harrisony: read the debian policy document?
<ScottK> GPL always dealt with distribution, not use.  It's a fundamental change.
<minghua> ScottK: Okay I see your point.  But I still think "distribution" and "communication" is pretty close.
<ScottK> As it happens, it's much harder to write code that's generally useful (and that I'd feel comfortable distributing) than a special purpose hack that meets my needs.
<ScottK> So if I'd been forced to leverage off AGPL code instead of GPL code, I'd have either never started or started from scratch.
<minghua> Just don't use AGPL software. :-P
<ScottK> I don't intend to.
<lifeless> till google run some ;-)
<pwnguin> from my point of view, i think its a valid request from an author
<ScottK> Right.  I don't expect they will either.
<pwnguin> to say that they're some how not dedicated to free software anymore
<ScottK> Request, yes.
<pwnguin> heh
<harrisony> pwnguin: i did say quick but i guess i can always get long
<slangasek> I license all my code under the AGPL, and write it in splynethon
<pwnguin> harrisony: its like three paragraphs if i recall (and i dont recall the specifics)
<minghua> I don't think there are abstract "good" or "bad" licenses, only good or bad license for a particular software.
<minghua> s/good or bad license/good or bad license choices/
<ScottK> It's taken me a year of free time to replicate, in a generally useful way, code I wrote for my service (plus putting features others asked for first).  With AGPL I'd have never been able to do that.
<pwnguin> because you have some hangup about the quality of code you publish being higher than the code you run on a network?
<ScottK> No.  Because stuff that works for my specific use case may not be generally useful as is and requires documentation and stuff I don't personally need.
<pwnguin> i didnt see a documentation requirement in the apl
<ScottK> It's not a requirement of the license, but I won't distribute stuff that's not well done.
<pwnguin> so its as i said
<ScottK> So I guess I do have a hangup of not distributing stuff that's too opaque to be actually useful.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> So I'd rather be given the freedom to DTRT rather than be forced to immediately distribute something that no one else could actually use.
<pwnguin> on the other hand, its clear there's plenty of people who don't bother ever
<pwnguin> pligg / meneame has several people violating the license
<ScottK> The other problem I see is that the only way you can check AGPL compliance is to look inside someone's server and see what they are running.
<ScottK> I'd not be willing to open myself up for that either.
<ScottK> With GPL, you have to be distributing something for compliance ever to come up.
<pwnguin> true, enforcement's a pita
<ScottK> So why would I take the business risk that some FSF equivalent of the BSA might show up some day and demand to audit the code on my servers.
<ScottK> Ain't doing it.
<pwnguin> that might be something the ftpmasters would entertain
 * ScottK wonders if the FSF would favor DRM to detect AGPL violations?
<pwnguin> how would that even work?
<ScottK> Dunno.
<pwnguin> drm works on the binaries, agpl works on the "hand out code" feature
<ScottK> Tivo already has stuff to make the code not run if it's been modified.
<pwnguin> right
<ScottK> So it could note that modified code was run and then do 'something'.
<ScottK> How else are they going to know?
<pwnguin> the whole point is you're allowed to modify most all the code
<ScottK> Yes, but you have to distribute it then.
<ScottK> I'm not talking about preventing modification, but making the fact of the modification known.
<pwnguin> oh well. if someone wants quality documentation, they can pay me to do it ; )
<ScottK> Sure.  That'd be nice.
 * ScottK heads to bed.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<Fujitsu> Night ScottK.
<warp10> Hi all!
<gs42k0b> hi warp10
<warp10> gs42k0b: :)
<gs42k0b> is it normal to get daemon notifications send out on tty1 and not tt2 even though both are logged in as the same unprivileged user?
<harrisony> gs42k0b: im pretty sure
<gs42k0b> sure of what?
<harrisony> "< gs42k0b> is it normal to get daemon notifications send out on tty1 and not tt2 even though both are logged in as the same unprivileged user?"
<gs42k0b> then I owe someone an apology hehe
<gs42k0b> so tty1 is receiving notification pr. default?
<gs42k0b> notifications such as  *reloading syslog-daemon...
 * gs42k0b thought they were just redirected to /dev/null
<\sh> moins
 * persia wonders what others think about a "merge" from a third-party repository for packages originally pulled in from the apt-get.org repo fun (way back when), vs. direct adoption of the package.
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh
<dholbach> welcome jdstrand :)
<\sh> just playing around with django...looks nicer then rails
<\sh> jdstrand, at last...congrats and welcome to Castle GreyScull ,-)
 * persia wonders why Â¥sh is still skulking around the exterior walls
<joejaxx> persia: :)
<joejaxx> i wish people would give other people's irc nicks in email :P :D
<joejaxx> jdstrand: if you are who i think you are congrats :)
<\sh> metalgod__, yay...good to know that you are also a gentoo convert ;)
<persia> joejaxx: LP is a conversion engine
<\sh> persia, hmmm?
<\sh> well, I start to defend the universe from next week on....
<\sh> /dev/sda6             322G  4,3G  317G   2% /home
<\sh> /dev/sda5              94G  1,3G   92G   2% /var
<\sh> /dev/sdb1             466G  544K  466G   1% /mnt
<\sh> should be enough space for having fun :)
<joejaxx> persia: ah never though about that
<joejaxx> \sh: lol
<persia> Â¥sh: Excellent: plenty of space :)
<joejaxx> are there any services missing from ubuntu wire at the moment?
<persia> joejaxx: How do you mean?
<joejaxx> i guess not :P
<joejaxx> well ubuntu wire is there to provide services to ubuntu developers
<joejaxx> well motu that is
<persia> joejaxx: Ask yourself a different question: what services do you want that don't exist?
<joejaxx> that is kind of my question :)
<joejaxx> to you all
<persia> If there is a service that you want, then you might ask who could host it.
<joejaxx> that is why i am asking you all :)
<joejaxx> i cannot use it currently as i am not motu :P
 * persia wants https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/DeveloperWeatherReport and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/QAWebsite but isn't sure where they would be hosted.
<persia> joejaxx: I don't know about everything, but most of the QA tools being hosted there should be useable by anyone.
<joejaxx> the weather report one would be interesting to code
<joejaxx> i wonder if i should code that or now
<joejaxx> not*
<persia> joejaxx: Best to get in touch with the people subscribed to the spec to check the status and see how you might help.
<joejaxx> persia: :)
<joejaxx> i need a terminal emulator like konsole but that is not konsole :P
<harrisony> Another question, im packaging a package and the package should go in gnome but depends on a package in multiverse (gnome-video-arcade is a frontend for xmame)
<dholbach> harrisony: then it'll live in multiverse too
<harrisony> dholbach: :)
<huats> moring all
<geser> morning huats
<huats> hello geser
<dholbach> persia: maybe you can take a look at bug 175018 - I've no idea how to deal with that huge interdiff
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175018 in strongswan "strongswan: New upstream release 4.1.9" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175018
<persia> dholbach: Sure.  I'll hit it later.  http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/process-interdiff might help.
<persia> (needs work)
<imbrandon> interdiff used in a new upstream release?
<imbrandon> wow this is getting interesting
<imbrandon> when was it decided and where that we prefer interdiffs anyhow ?
 * imbrandon certainly never used them upto now
<persia> About a month back.
<imbrandon> i'll see if i can find the ML, i'd like to bring it up in the next MOTU meeting that we abolish them, its an unnneeded step that isnt even workable in most situations
<persia> imbrandon: Already on the agenda.  I disareee about it be being unnecessary.
<imbrandon> ugh
 * imbrandon needs a faster build box
<imbrandon> anyone seen that dell guy arround ?
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<Riddell> nxvl: are you using the KDE 4 RC 2 PPA?
<imbrandon> moins Riddell
<chakinou> hello! i'am looking for any information in order to help me on the right way to package an eclipse plugin?? does someone can help me?
<proppy> oy
<chakinou> maybe i'm not in the right channel? so please tell me which one is the right one.
<geser> chakinou: are there any other eclipse plugins packaged where you can look how they got packaged?
<txwikinger2> chakinou: look at an existing eclipse plugin package hwo it is done there
<chakinou> yes i've done it, but i can't understand why and how we compile it
<chakinou> in the rule file
<txwikinger2> Look at the packaging guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<txwikinger2> There are some pointers.. it depends what apcakging system is used
<dholbach> PackagingGuide/Basic probably
<chakinou> ok thanks, i gonna work by my own, and i'll comme back when i have more specific questions! see you!
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> anyone running a hardy gnome desktop wanna help me verify a bug, shouldnet need to install anything just preform a simple action
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, sup?
<imbrandon> put a jpg on the desktop, right click on it and use "open with image viewer" ( eyeofgnome ) , it takes two times every time
<imbrandon> to actuialy open
<DarkMageZ> confirmed
<imbrandon> gah thats buggin the hell out of me, time to track it down
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: WFM.
<imbrandon> i thought it was just me
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: wfm?
<imbrandon> ohh
<imbrandon> works for me
<Hobbsee> yup
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: hrm it dosent take two times to open up?
<imbrandon> i just tried it on two seperate boxes here .... hrm
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: nope.
<Fujitsu> Works for me too.
<DarkMageZ> it's random. some days it works some days it doesn't
<imbrandon> strange
<DarkMageZ> i'll keep thinking about what i'm doing to cause it tho.
<imbrandon> yea me too, i'll see if i can find something in common
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: compiz?
<imbrandon> nope
<imbrandon> this si the p200
<imbrandon> so nothing fancy
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: ?
<DarkMageZ> no compiz here either.
<Hobbsee> tha'tll be why, i expect.
<imbrandon> possibly
<DarkMageZ> pff, compiz only breaks things. doesn't fix.
<imbrandon> i dont see how but thats a common thread if Fujitsu is running compiz
<Hobbsee> although, opens here now
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: he is
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> btw i got my bday present early heh ( my 29th bday is tomarrow )
<imbrandon> a decient digital camera ( 5.1 mp )
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh so now i can toss my daughters 0.3mp out lol
<StevenK> Hurrah!
<imbrandon> StevenK: the diffrence ( with almost the same pic ) old: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2114/2100517350_6e32a9052f_o.jpg  and new http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/2120435926_f7e16bf121_o.jpg
<imbrandon> totaly diffrent
<imbrandon> the camera messed up on the first one because there was no mtdew :)
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I prefer the old one.
<imbrandon> heh
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, what's that wallpaper on the screen :P
<imbrandon> one i made
<imbrandon> one sec, i'll post it somewhere
<DarkMageZ> also mountain spew near an open case?
<imbrandon> err actuly i think its in my flickr
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2092312453&context=set-72157603393803422&size=o
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ^^
<imbrandon> thats the wallpaper
<mruiz> hi all :-)
<imbrandon> hey mruiz
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: the other one was better.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: what other one ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: aren't you the one who had a crack theme?
<Hobbsee> the ms XP one?
<imbrandon> ahh yea
<Hobbsee> with the my little ponies background?
<imbrandon> i have a xp therem on one
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> and an osx theme on another
<imbrandon> actualy i lost that ponies walpaper ;(
<emgent> someone know if there are ubuntu motu in Rwanda?
<imbrandon> no idea
<imbrandon> you could probably get a close estimate looking at timezones of MOTU in lp
<imbrandon> only way i can think of
<DarkMageZ> appears to be no Rwanda loco team. (based off wiki.ubuntu.com)
<zul> morning
<Hobbsee> heya zul
<zul> Hey Hobbsee how goes it?
<Riddell> nxvl: do you have nessus installed?
 * Hobbsee didn't shoot customers.
<effie_jayx> mruiz, ping
<mruiz> effie_jayx, pong
<mruiz> heya imbrandon :-)
<mruiz> heya dholbach , persia , ScottK , geser , TheMuso
<persia> mruiz: Hi!  (package, package)
<mruiz> :-)
<persia> ember: Why is bug #176493 invalid?  Doesn't it still need a DIF exception?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176493 in transmission "Please sponsor transmission 0.96 into Hardy" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176493
<metalgod__> siretart: ping
<persia> metalgod__: You'll get a better response with some context :)
<metalgod__> :)
<siretart> metalgod__: please don't do contentless pings
<siretart> better don't do pings at all on irc
<metalgod__> siretart: sorry i'm used to other places :)
<metalgod__> siretart: mind if i pm ?
<siretart> depends on the topic :)
<mruiz> can someone take a look of bug 176714, please? I don't know if I need a DIFe for this merge...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176714 in vpnc "Please merge vpnc 0.5.1r254-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176714
<persia> mruiz: You do need a DIFe, but as you've put it in the sponsors queue, the reviewing sponsor will likely grant or reject it.  To increase the chances of approval, you might want to test network-manager-vpnc and kvpnc against the updated version, and indicate if they need any update to match.
<persia> mruiz: For any DIFe request, you can get a list of applications that likely need to be tested with `apt-cache rdepends <package>`.  Not all require testing, but it's a good idea to at least describe how the update doesn't affect them, or add bug tasks for them if it does, and add the necessary changes to preserve integration.
<mruiz> thanks persia ... I'll find out about it
<persia> mruiz: Thanks.  It's a bit more work than merges were last week, but checking the details is the best way to make sure that hardy is really solid enough to last 5 years.
<mruiz> persia, that's the idea ;-)
<persia> mruiz: Also, please don't be afraid of DIF exceptions: If Debian fixes something important, it's better to request an exception than leave the bug :)
<jdstrand> dholbach, \sh, joejaxx: re: motu -- thanks! :)
<dholbach> jdstrand: ROCK ON! :-)
<jdstrand> dholbach: thank you for you kind words during the application process as well :)
<mruiz> congrats jdstrand
<dholbach> jdstrand: you know it's true :)
<jdstrand> mruiz: thank you :)
<jdstrand> dholbach: ;)
<pochu> jdstrand: congrats!
<jdstrand> pochu: thanks! :)
<mruiz> persia, it would be important to add more information about DIFe to the documentation
<persia> mruiz: DIFe was invented last week :)  If you'd like to document it, I'd be happy.  Feel free to ping me with any draft, or ask for any clarifications.
<slytherin> is there anyone here from apache project?
<zul> have you tried #apache?
<slytherin> zul: Actually I just wanted to know if any apache developers are maintaining any packages in Ubuntu.
<zul> slytherin: check #ubuntu-server
<persia> slytherin: Even for that, their channel is a better place to ask.  We don't know (and #ubuntu-server might be more likely anyway)
<slytherin> zul: I frankly don't understand why they decide to publish .tar.gz in different format for every application. It is pain to try to repackage the .orig.tar.gz everytime. :-(
<persia> slytherin: If you're repacking all the tarballs, you likely also want to get in touch with the Debian maintainers, so as to use the same tarball in common for both distros.
<slytherin> I have been working on batik package for more than a week. Now I have figured out what all I need to get latest version in Ubuntu. I will have to first package another library. And this libraries tarball doesn't have a root folder of the form package-version. :-(
<imbrandon> slytherin: dpkg extracts it into the proper place
<persia> (in most cases: dpkg isn't magic, just very, very smart)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> hrm i have eeepc money in my hand or rent, darn rent wins
<imbrandon> :( hehe
<slytherin> imbrandon: what do you mean extract in proper place? What if the structure of tar.gz is like this. It has 2 directories javax and org and a bunch of readme and license files in root itself.
<imbrandon> slytherin: sure then dpkg will extract it to <package>-<version>/javax etc
<imbrandon> or *should*
<imbrandon> its pretty smart
<slytherin> imbrandon: where am I supposed to create debian directory?
<imbrandon> in <pacakge>-<version>/debian
<imbrandon> just as with anything else
<imbrandon> ( but not in the orig.tar.gz
<imbrandon> )
<slytherin> imbrandon: Can you please try downloading 'xml commons external' from http://xml.apache.org/mirrors.cgi extract it and then explain me what exactly to do.
<imbrandon> maybe not "exactly" but i'll get you going in the right direction, i must leave soonish
<imbrandon> to pay some bills
<imbrandon> downlaoding , one sec
<sommer> hey all, I just wanted to double check is this the "official" packaging guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<persia> sommer: Best there is right now: please excuse us whilst we redecorate.  There are more slick looking ones in other places, but they aren't as up to date.
<sommer> persia: cool thanks
<persia> slytherin: Quick overview: make a directory of the name it should be, unpack in there, make a debian directory in there, put the tarball in the parent, add a blank copyright, a rules with a clean rule doing nothing, a changelog entry, and a control file.  Try building the source.
<slytherin> persia: Ok.
<persia> slytherin: If it succeeds, dpkg is smart enough you don't need to repack.  If it fails, watch for imbrandon's upcoming step-by-step guide.
<imbrandon> slytherin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2835/
<slytherin> :-)
<imbrandon> there is step-by-step
<imbrandon> i just did it to make sure it all worked
<imbrandon> persia: please look too to make sure i dident overlook something
<slytherin> imbrandon: I will try persia's suggestion first and if it doesn't work then yours.
<persia> imbrandon: The unpack procedure, but I don't know if dpkg will be able to pack & unpack: that might require more hints (and I'm not very familiar with dpkg hints: I generally use other people's orig.tar.gz files)
<persia> s/procedure/procedure looks right/
<imbrandon> slytherin: ok just fyi you should still note it, thats the "proper" way to repack something
<imbrandon> persia: yea it should be fine
<imbrandon> okies i must run to pay a few bills, back in a bit
<persia> imbrandon: Actually, you're ungzipping & regzipping, which changes the md5sum.  Maybe I don't like it so much.
<imbrandon> persia: not the tar
<imbrandon> err true
<imbrandon> i followed the bz2 way
<imbrandon> a simple rename would have worked i guess
<persia> imbrandon: :)
<imbrandon> since it was tar,gz to start
<imbrandon> thats what i do for bz2 and zip archives
<imbrandon> anyhow yea a rename would have worked
 * imbrandon runs
<dfiloni> persia: what Salvatore Palma should do to fix bug #172588?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172588 in atanks "[atanks] no .desktop file " [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172588
<persia> dfiloni: Thanks for your patience.  I still think you would have done better to ask someone else in the past 42 hours, but looking now :)
<dfiloni> persia: no, I didn't have time... sorry
<persia> dfiloni: If it was because you didn't have time, no need to apologize.  I'm actually glad to hear you haven't been waiting whilst I did other things (as I did ask you to wait at least 39 hours when you last asked me :) )
<dfiloni> persia: at school all day I have a test....
<dfiloni> persia: by the way, can you say me what totopalma should do exactly?
<persia> dfiloni: OK.  1) The package uses dh_install, so the desktop file should be installed by adding an entry to debian/atanks.install instead of adding a new call in debian/rules.  2) The patch deletes the icon installation line, which means that the installed menu item won't have an icon, but the .desktop file is looking for an icon.
<dfiloni> persia: ok thanks
<persia> dfiloni: Do both of those make enough sense, or do you need more detail?
<dfiloni> persia: no thanks
<persia> dfiloni: Thanks for helping totopalma with this :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<totopalma> persia, thanks :)
<dfiloni> persia: do you know any website as ppa?
<persia> dfiloni: Could you rephrase?  I don't understand the question.
<dfiloni> persia: ppa builds sources, I need another website which can build my sources
<persia> dfiloni: I don't know.  I build locally with sbuild.  There are a couple build farms out there: you might try asking generally during each of Asia, EU, and Americas days.
<dfiloni> persia: ok
 * persia becomes convinced nobody actually reads email footnotes
<slytherin> persia: Followed your method. debuild build source package for me, libxml-commons-external-java_1.3.04-0ubuntu1.tar.gz but it also contains debian directory
<persia> slytherin: Did you have a renamed (not repacked) libxml-commons-external-java_1.3.04.orig.tar.gz in the parent directory when you called debuild -S -sa?
<slytherin> persia: No there is no .orig.tar.gz anywhere.
<persia> slytherin: That's the problem then.  Delete the .dsc & libxml-commons-external-java_1.3.04-0ubuntu1.tar.gz, download the tar.gz from upstream.  Rename it to the right name.  Then run debuild -S -sa again.
<slytherin> ok
<slytherin> persia: Can you check this and tell me if and what I am missing? http://paste.ubuntu.com/2836/
<mruiz> ping effie_jayx
<broonie> aa/win 19
<persia> mruiz: You'll get a better responce if you provide some context.
<persia> slytherin: That doesn't tell me much.  Try lsdiff -z on your diff.gz, and try unpacking the .dsc to see if you got what you wanted.
<slytherin> persia: ok
<mruiz> effie_jayx , PM
<persia> mruiz: That's even more annoying, as it only serves to indicate to the rest of us that you're not saying something :)
<mruiz> persia: I'm just want to know if effie_jayx is there
<slytherin> persia: I think I am getting what I want. Thanks for help.
<persia> mruiz: Sure, but if someone is busy, and responds to a highlight, and there's nothing, it's inconvenient for them, and they have to expect you to be monitoring closely when they say "what", and then you have to respond.  In the second case, you've likely already triggered notification in their client, so it just makes them check two places.  Anyway, it's not terribly important.
<persia> slytherin: No problem.  Good luck with it.
<mruiz> persia, finally he woke up :-)
<mok0> Bug #164706
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164706 in xtide "Please merge xtide_2.9.3-3 from debian " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164706
<mok0> persia: How do I obtain an DIF exception?
<mok0> s/an/a
<persia> mok0: 1) Check to make sure the update doesn't break the rdepends (tcd-utils, education-astronomy).  2) Subscribe the sponsors queue.  Your sponsor will grant the DIF exception, but is more likely to do so if you can show it doesn't break anything.
<mok0> persia: I don't understand in what way it could possibly break anything
<totopalma> RainCT, hi :)
<mok0> persia: i.e. I don't know how to check that
<persia> mok0: Maybe it can't.  I didn't check.  I suspect education-astronomy is a meta-package, in which case it wouldn't matter.  I have no idea why tcd-utils is listed in the rdepends.
<mok0> persia: /me is checking
<persia> mok0: The only point is that while you might be granted a DIF without checking, you're more likely to get one (especially as we get further away from DIF) with a little research.
<persia> mok0: Thanks for checking :)
<mok0> persia: I suspect tcd-utils has the dependency because you have nothing to use it for if you don't have xtide installed
<mok0> persia: and I think you are right: education-astronomy is a meta package
<persia> mok0: In that case, I'd recommend testing tcd-utils with the new xtide to make sure it still works.  If it does, then note that in a comment (along with the results of the education-astronomy investigation).
<mok0> persia: ... and send it in an email to...
<mok0> ?
<persia> mok0: Just put it in the bug comment so that your sponsor can see it.  Your sponsor will either grant the DIFe, or tell you why they don't think it needs a merge yet.  If Debian updates again, you can reapply.
<mok0> persia: ok
<RainCT> totopalma: hi
<persia> RainCT: Good catch on tmda debhelper :)
<RainCT> persia: thanks :)
<mok0> persia: Just remembered that I've made a modification to the package that requires a patch to xtide-data.
<mok0> persia: the debian maintainer agrees that it is a good idea
<persia> mok0: Do you want me to unsubscibe the sponsors whilst you attend to that?
<mok0> persia: the question is: can I patch xtide-data so it works, or do I revert the change?
<persia> Also, if Debian is doing things, it might be worth waiting for that to complete, and then requesting the smaller merge / sync (if you know the timetable will complete soon enough to get it tested properly for hardy)
<mok0> persia: I'm not sure what his plans are
<mok0> persia: I can ask
<persia> mok0: If you can, you may.  I'd add a new bug task to the same bug so as to make it clear the two should be sponsored together.
<mok0> persia: just in the comment text?
<persia> mok0: If you're already working closely, asking is good.  If you're not, fixing in Ubuntu and letting the Debian maintainer know you're happy to collaborate is good, but don't block on something if you're not already integrated.
<persia> mok0: Bug tasks are managed at the top of the bug.
<mok0> persia: ok
<mok0> persia: why don't you unsubscribe u-u-s then
<persia> mok0: Which bug again?
<mruiz> bye all... see you later!
<mok0> Bug #164706
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164706 in xtide "Please merge xtide_2.9.3-3 from debian " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164706
<persia> mok0: unsubscribed.  Don't forget to resubscribe when you want to request the DIFe & upload.
<mok0> persia: ok
<chakinou> i'm wondering, can we use dpkg-deb to create "universe to become" package?
<persia> chakinou: Yes, but you'll have an easier time getting it accepted if you use debhelper or cdbs & debuild or dpkg-buildpackage.
 * persia seeks another strategy to avoid the pressure of Dunbar's number
<chakinou> thanks! the point is i packaged plugins for eclipse, so they only depends on if eclipse is installed or not, so it's realy easy to package them with dpkg-deb
<chakinou> does the rule file is mandatory?
<persia> chakinou: Yes, the mandatory files are changelog, control, copyright, and rules.  If you're just installing some files without compilation or modification, it's pretty simple.  For Java, it's usually better to recompile the .jar files just to be sure that the distributed binaries match the distributed source.
<chakinou> ok! so the point is to follow these advices i think : http://java.debian.net/building.html
<persia> chakinou: That looks like a reasonable reference.  Ask here if you get stuck.
<chakinou> persia : thanks for your advices! i'm pleased to see people sharing their wisdom :)
<persia> LucidFox: About merging from d.m.o.  Could you share your thoughts on why it's better to merge than to manage the package within Ubuntu?
<LucidFox> persia> Avidemux has been merged before
<LucidFox> In fact, since its very inclusion into Ubuntu
<LucidFox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avidemux/+publishinghistory
<persia> LucidFox: OK.  Do you have sufficient confidence in d.m.o that you believe it's a good merge source?  I only ask because I'm unsure whether we want to maintain our own, or pull from external when we're handling the packages pulled in back when we grabbed from the repos listed at apt-get.org
<LucidFox> Yes, I have sufficient confidence. Marillat is very responsive and merges Ubuntu changes back. Last time he did it for qdvdauthor.
<persia> LucidFox: Excellent.  That's always good.  I just wanted to check to make sure that you weren't blindly following the Origin: header :)
<siretart> bug #177154
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177154 in cdrtools "cdrtools is undistributable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177154
 * persia wishes for a new, free, popularly supported ~5GB storage media with ubiquitous devices and PD implementation code.
 * bddebian wishes for a brain
 * persia gives bddebian a certificate indication effective demonstration of lintian report resolution, a bright robe, and a fancy square hat with colored tassels.
<persia> s/indication/indicating
<bddebian> heh
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<LucidFox> Also regarding avidemux, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux can be archived now
<verb3k> guys I have a simple python  script and I want to package it but don't want to go into those packaging guide which go in the very details, can someone give me a very simple tutorial or way of doing that , thanks in advance
<LucidFox> verb3k> Did you write the script yourself?
<verb3k> LucidFox, yes
<bluekuja> verb3k, for archive inclusion or for personal use?
<LucidFox> I think the best course of action would be setting up a home page for it, and providing a tarball. After that, someone else can package it.
<bluekuja> verb3k, I don't think providing a package with *one* script will help
<verb3k> LucidFox, I hope to include it in the universe, but for now I will distribute it in the forums
<LucidFox> What does it do?
<verb3k> bluefoxicy, , I hope to include it in the universe, but for now I will distribute it in the forums
<LucidFox> And where's the link to the forum thread?
<verb3k> LucidFox, backs up PSX games in a playable format using emulators
<LucidFox> O_o
<verb3k> hehe
<verb3k> that's legal
<verb3k> if you have the game
<LucidFox> It's... not a question of whether it's legal.
<verb3k> LucidFox, http://dpaste.com/hold/28221/
<verb3k> LucidFox, using cdrdao as a backend
<LucidFox> Yes, I found the thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=642989
<verb3k> fast :)
<verb3k> LucidFox, so what do you think?
<LucidFox> As I said: Set up a home page for it, for example, at Google Code. Package a tarball and assign a version number.
<LucidFox> Select a DFSG-compatible license and add the appropriate license header.
<LucidFox> If it's GPL, attach a COPYING file - and in this case I'd recommend GPLv3, just because.
<LucidFox> And reasonable documentation.
<verb3k> LucidFox, and then? how can I make a package
<verb3k> ?
<LucidFox> And then someone else will package it. :)
<LucidFox> For example, I.
<verb3k> LucidFox, If I come back to you after some time will you package it for me :)
<LucidFox> When the homepage and tarball is prepared, sure.
<verb3k> LucidFox, so google is a good place to start, I already have an email account with gmail
<verb3k> LucidFox, thanks for your time :)
<verb3k> bluekuja, sorry but I missed your name to bluefoxicy :)
<bluekuja> verb3k, np
<RainCT> is it just me or are the dependencies for xffm-icons broken?
<RainCT> (pbuilder doesn't like it :S)
<bluefoxicy> the what
<bluefoxicy> stop doing that ffs
<RainCT> dholbach: (a little note: in your last blog post you wrote "updatemaintainer"; that should be "update-maintainer")
<dholbach> RainCT: will fix
<effie_jayx> ScottK, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/peercast/+bug/177163 give it a look and see if it looks ok
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177163 in peercast "please merge peercast 0.1217.toots.20060314-5 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<effie_jayx> I think I just did it :D
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Debdiff looks right.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  :D
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I am reporting the bug in debian
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Great.
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Make sure their package names are the same as ours.
<gilir> Hi :)
<ScottK> Hello
<gilir> REVU broken ?
<ScottK> The web part isn't.
<ScottK> Dunno about uploads.
<\sh> remoins
<metalgod__> siretart: i uploaded a new release of cdrtools to ubuntu-burning-ppa i hope it's alright :)
<Saras> http://agui.myminicity.es/ind/ jpg ex girlfriend join in
<Saras> http://agui.myminicity.es/ind/ jpg ex girlfriend join in
<jpatrick> @ops | Saras
<somerville32> Hi DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> hey somerville32 :)
<somerville32> :)
<Supremus> norsetto, hi!
<norsetto> hi Supremus Magnus Imperator
<smagoun> I'm creating a small native package that needs to install a config file under a non-root user account. Can I do this via the debian/install file? I don't have a Makefile + would rather not write one.
<totopalma> norsetto, hi :)
<norsetto> hi there totopalma
<somerville32> smagoun, no
<alvinc> dumb question...  does anyone know a good link to a howto for building a 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit host?
<bigon> is there any particular raisons cairo-dock is not packaged for ubuntu?
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<TheMuso> And MOTU hopefuls.
<RainCT> hi TheMuso :)
<slangasek> God ye good e'en, TheMuso
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<norsetto> TheMuso: don't forget the MOTU Hopeless pls. (we are a proud category)
<TheMuso> norsetto: lol
<zul> hey TheMuso
<geser> norsetto: does this category grow in number?
<norsetto> geser: yes, we tend to reproduce easily
<mok0> Yo, norsetto!
<norsetto> mok0: Heil, tide meister!
<mok0> norsetto: there was a slight complication with my debdiff, wrt. the xtide-data package.
<mok0> norsetto: I hope I did the right things on LP
<norsetto> mok0: what was the complication?
<mok0> bug #177204
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177204 in xtide-data "Please merge xtide-data-20040203-3 from debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177204
<mok0> I made a change in xtide (DD agrees) that affects xtide-data
<norsetto> mok0: this is not in the changelog: -rm -f h.txt offsets.xml harmonics.tcd
<mok0> norsetto: you are right
<norsetto> mok0: ok, and this change was in agreement with Debian I understand?
<mok0> norsetto: I added the "-f" otherwise debuild -S -sa fails
<mok0> norsetto: yes, he agrees
<mok0> norsetto: but he has no time atm to update the package
<norsetto> mok0: I mean, to the xtide-data change too, so that we can sync in the future?
<mok0> norsetto: I think the changes will eventually appear in Debian
<mok0> norsetto: including icons etc
<mok0> Then we can trash the ubuntu version
<mok0> norsetto: I propose that both xtide and xtide-data be updated
<mok0> norsetto: I will explain the problem:
<mok0> norsetto: xtide looks for harmonics data in /usr/share/xtide. It will use all files in that directory, but if a another file or a directory is present there, it will croak. That does not leave space to include the "world vector shoreline" data which enables xtide to draw a map. Therefore, I proposed that the harmonics data be moved -> /usr/share/xtide/harmonics, and the wvs data could (in future package, or manually by user) be placed in /usr/shar
<mok0> norsetto: therefore, xtide-data should simple install things in the new place
<norsetto> mok0: right, but, isn't that premature then?
<mok0> norsetto: not if we want a cool version of xtide for hardy :-)
<mok0> norsetto: I feel it is ok since I forwarded a bunch of stuff and comments and so on the the DD
<mok0> norsetto: and he said he had no time atm to update the package
<mok0> norsetto: but then again, I don't know the customs of the community very well (yet)
<norsetto> mok0: I mean, why change the structure now if you don't need (yet)?
<mok0> norsetto: Well, actually it _is_ needed if someone wants to add wvs data manually
<mok0> norsetto: They cannot put it in /usr/share/xtide which is kinda puzzling
<norsetto> mok0: is this structure changed in the package or was it choosen upstream?
<mok0> norsetto: with this change, there will be a directory (empty) to put it
<Kmos> I'm doing the merge of mgetty, somebody have any opinion about bug 75058 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75058 in mgetty "faxrunqd hangs on /etc/init.d/mgetty-fax stop" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75058
<mok0> norsetto: The change was made by me, and I suggested it to the DD, he said "good idea".
<mok0> norsetto: I can forward you the email exchange if you want
<norsetto> mok0: I understand that, I was just wondering why this structure is not dictatedd by upstream (if this necessary for it to work properly that is)
<mok0> norsetto: no it's not dictated by upstream
<mok0> norsetto: it is necessary for my current modification to the package to work, unless I revert it
<mok0> norsetto: The selling point is that the change provides a natural place for people to put the wvs data, that will be supported in future releases
<norsetto> mok0: I don't have problems with that, what I don't understand is why the program will "croak" if this data is there and not a a dir of its own (is that by design or by mistake?).
<mok0> norsetto: I think the program is designed to read all files in a directory specified by the first line in /etc/xtide.conf, and to expect that all those files are "harmonics.db" files  (some internal binary format)
<norsetto> mok0: right, but the program must also have in a configuration somwehere where to look for the wvs data?
<mok0> norsetto: I tried putting another file in that directory, and the program stops with an error dialog box
<mok0> norsetto: Yes, that is the second line in /etc/xtide.conf
<warp10> Hi norsetto! thank you for your comments, I really appreciated the way you pointed out my errors.
<mok0> norsetto: So, in my change the lines are: /usr/share/xtide/harmonics, /usr/share/xtide/wvs
<norsetto> mok0: ok, so, you have now two dirs, one xtide/harmonics and another xtide/wvs which are pointed by the two first lines of xtide.conf?
<mok0> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> warp10: np, glad I could help
<norsetto> mok0: ok, I don't see a problem then
<mok0> norsetto: A future package will put wvs data in that place
<mok0> norsetto: yay :-)
<Kmos> I'm doing the merge of mgetty, somebody have any opinion about bug 75058 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75058 in mgetty "faxrunqd hangs on /etc/init.d/mgetty-fax stop" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75058
<mok0> Hey BTS is actully pretty cool
<norsetto> kmos: have a look at this: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=235196
<ubotu> Debian bug 235196 in mgetty-fax "stop target of init.d sends SIGUSR2. Using SIGHUP for restart?" [Normal,Fixed]
<Kmos> norsetto: nop.. thanks
<Kmos> i'll add it to LP
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> Damn this cool weather
<persia> Riddell: re: infon: When uploading "in the normal way", should I set Origin, or just push it directly?
<pochu> slangasek, evand: congrats for your core powers :)
<evand> thanks pochu!
<slangasek> pochu: thanks :)
<slangasek> now I can apply myself in earnest to doing evil things
<slangasek> oh whoops that was out loud
<ScottK> slangasek: Congratulations.
<slangasek> ScottK: thanks
<persia> slangasek: What, you weren't doing that sideways pre-DIF? (and congratulations)
<ScottK> slangasek: You work for Canonical, so that's a given.
<ScottK> ;-)
<slangasek> har
<ScottK> slangasek: Do you have the ability to reject stuff out of NEW?
<slangasek> yes
<ScottK> slangasek: Would you please reject my reject clamav upload.  I fubar'ed the .changes and it's an important enough one I'd like to do it again.
<slangasek> (all ubuntu-archive have that ability; not sure where we stand on the LP bug that was stopping Hobbsee from doing it though)
<slangasek> looking now
 * persia thinks that bug finally got closed in 1.1.11
<ScottK> Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: Are you doing fakesync, or uploading a sync from Debian NEW for that?
<slangasek> ScottK: hrm, you realize it's only in binary NEW not in source NEW, right?  Your sourceful .changes was already accepted, and the first build is already uploaded
<ScottK> Shoot.
<slangasek> so I can reject that, but it wouldn't change anything :)
<ScottK> Thanks.
<slangasek> what was the problem with .changes?
<ScottK> persia: Fake syncing the same package that's sitting in Debian NEW right now.
<ScottK> slangasek: It didn't have the latest Debian changes in it, so it just says fakesync and nothing about what's being fake synced.
<slangasek> ah
 * ScottK forgot the -v 
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> no real tragedy though
<ScottK> The good news is that I do think clamav is actually a sync now, so once it gets out of new, I'll just sync over it anyway.
<ScottK> No.  I guess not.
<ScottK> slangasek: In Debian, is there a sort of standard polite amount of time to wait between emailing a maintainer about maybe taking over their package and then hijacking it when you don't hear back?
 * persia thinks a couple NMUs are standard first, but that's only from loose observation
<ScottK> In this case the individual in question hasn't uploaded anything in 10 months.
<ScottK> persia: I'm not going to NMU it as NMUs have to be minimally invasive and I'm not up for that in this case.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Right.
<ScottK> What I'm after is taking Ubuntu's klamav package and shoving it into Debian.  Ubuntu and Debian packaging for Klamav have no history in common.
<persia> Erk.  That's certainly not "minimally invasive" :)
<ScottK> Yeah.  So no NMU.
<geser> ScottK: have you already mailed mia@ ?
<ScottK> geser: I haven't.  I just mailed the maintainer today.
<slangasek> ScottK: I think the politeness is more about the process than about the time allowed, though given the rate at which things happen in Debian I would think 1 month would be the minimum from first contacting the maintainer to uploading a take-over
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.
<slangasek> as for the process, it's: contact the maintainer, wait a bit; contact the mia team asking whether the maintainer is known to be inactive, cc'ing the maintainer; contact debian-qa, cc'ing the maintainer, about forcibly orphaning
<verb3k> Can anybody volunteer to package my program? it's a simple python script (1 file only)
<verb3k> It is hosted at google code
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks.  I supposed it helps if the package is RC buggy?
<slangasek> ScottK: that goes to evidence that the package is unmaintained and is likely to get the qa team to sanction the takeover, yes
<persia> verb3k: Is there a needs-packaging bug?
<slangasek> ScottK: also helps if you've been actively submitting patches to the package that have been ignored
<verb3k> persia, no,I've writen the program myself..... I am not aiming at universe, just want to share it with forum members
<verb3k> persia, I don't have any packaging experience, I would appreciate help
<persia> verb3k: In that case, finding a packager might be more difficult.  You might post your google code URL to the forum, and ask if anyone who is following that thread might be willing to package.
<verb3k> persia, is it difficult to package a script (no compilation needed) ?
<ScottK> slangasek: OK.  If the RC bug isn't there now, then it will be.  The big problem in the case of Klamav is the version in Lenny/Sid/Etc.  There's no "here's a nice patch" to fix it.
<slangasek> yeah, I know
<persia> verb3k: Not at all.  If I were doing it, I'd probably just write up control & copyright, add a changelog entry with "* Initial packaging", a CDBS 1-line rules calling debhelper, and a debian/install installing the script.  On the other hand, I'm not a python packager, so maybe something else is required.
<slangasek> ScottK: "here's the changes I had to make to get the new version working, here's my experience after upgrading, please upload" is a fair proxy in the case of new upstream versions
<slangasek> (oh, "here are the bugs upstream fixed")
<verb3k> persia, I see ....thanks for your time persia
<ScottK> slangasek: The challenge here is that I'm deeply familiar with the Ubuntu package and not the Debian one and they are VERY different.  If I have to figure out upgrading the Debian package first, then I'm not sure I've got the energy...
<ScottK> Thanks for the advice.
<slangasek> sure
<slangasek> and yeah, I understand that's a lot of work; it is the most /reliable/ way to get the takeover endorsed, because otherwise bystanders may take the position that if you're not willing to do the work to make it something other than a forklift replacement, you're not necessarily doing a better job than the current maintainer ;)
<Riddell> persia: I wouldn't make any changes
<persia> Riddell: I don't intend to make any changes, I'm just wondering if I should set Origin in source.changes to debian/unstable or just upload a .changes built locally.
<Riddell> persia: doesn't matter
<persia> Riddell: OK.  Thanks.  (I think it ought matter, but that's not important :) )
<pochu> Night folks
<norsetto> g'night
<cyberix> When will it be too late to get new packages into Hardy?
<cyberix> February 14th
<cyberix> ?
<norsetto> g'night all
 * TheMuso sighs. Why do people update to new upstream versions of packages, even though the only bugfix is for something that is not linux specific.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: heh
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-19
<imbrandon> 6 more hours untill i'm officialy 29 :P woot
<TheMuso> lol
<imbrandon> ( localtime )
<imbrandon> been sitting here playing with my new bday toys ( a 5.1mp digital camera via my mom and a usb card reader from my kido's )
<imbrandon> :)
<cyberix> 127.0.0.1:123
<jas01> can't use woot anymore... it's mainstream :(
<jas01> whoot! happy bday!
<imbrandon> heh
<zul> imbrandon: young'un
<Flare183> !nvida
<Flare183> sorry wrong channel
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about nvida - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<slangasek> cyberix: February 14 is too late, yes. :)
<mtaylor> anybody happen to know the difference between ${Source-Version} ${source:Version} and ${binary:Version}? cause lintian tells me to use binary:Version, but I can't find docs about the different var ANYWHERE
<slangasek> mtaylor: ${Source-Version} is deprecated because the name is misleading. ${binary:Version} is what it says; in Ubuntu it's always the same as ${source:Version}, but for Debian compatibility the difference is that ${binary:Version} changes when there's a binNMU and ${source:Version} always refers to the original source version
<slangasek> the distinction is relevant for dependencies between arch: all and arch: any packages, since arch: all packages aren't rebuilt in a binNMU
<mtaylor> slangasek: AWESOME
<mtaylor> slangasek: you don't happen to know where that's doc'd do you... I looked through the policy and tried googling...
<slangasek> good question, I have the unfortunate habit of usually being there when the policies are being drafted so never have occasion to look for documentation :/
<slangasek> (well, or non-policies in this case, since it's not really in policy)
<mtaylor> hm. sounds like it should be in policy...
<mtaylor> since it is a lintian rule, after all
<Fujitsu> Bah, slangasek beat me to it my almost a minute :(
<Fujitsu> s/my/by/
<slangasek> the current Debian policy czars seem to think very little should be written into policy. :)
<mtaylor> I wasn't going to tell you
<mtaylor> gr
 * mtaylor thinks the detailed policy is one of debian's strong points
<slangasek> at minimum, it ought to be in the developer's reference, and it's not there either
<Fujitsu> One would think it should be.
<mtaylor> I would think there shouldn't be a lintian rule warning me about anything if there isn't a policy to back it up
<mtaylor> else what the hell is lintian anyway ?
<mtaylor> but then, I suppose I'm odd perhaps
<Fujitsu> It is policy, it's just not in the policy document.
<mtaylor> hehehe
<mtaylor> NICE
 * mtaylor feels like he'll possibly be tried in a secret court for violating a secret law now...
<slangasek> oh, well, lintian is a tool that mechanically checks for bugs, and it correctly identifies some uses of ${foo:Version} as buggy; unfortunately, there's a stream of thought that if it's self-evidently a cause of bugs, it doesn't need to be written in Policy :-P
<slangasek> (but then it should be in the devref, where it also isn't, and the devref isn't maintained via debian-policy, so....)
<mtaylor> ah... I follow
<slangasek> long story short, you have a valid complaint, and you've touched a nerve with me :-)
<mtaylor> YAY!
 * mtaylor has done his job for the night then
 * persia wonders if there is any sane way to handle bug #177360 (say, something like Debian bug #415287)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177360 in ion3 "ion3 in Gutsy doesn't follow author's License" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177360
<ubotu> Debian bug 415287 in ion3 "dummy bug; should not be in testing" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/415287
<StevenK> Nnnnnnggg
<StevenK> I don't think we can remove packages from Gutsy.
<persia> Well, we can, but we won't.  I was more interested in not including it in hardy unless there was an actual stable release.
<slangasek> in the interest of preserving sanity, cyanide pills are available in the pouch in front of you
<StevenK> Muaha
<StevenK> Preserving nothing still leaves nothing
<persia> slangasek: I'm not interested in sanity, but only archive integrity (and understand these are incompatible).  Any other suggestions?
<StevenK> Hah
<slangasek> so are you asking for a way to mark a package in hardy as "not for release"?
<StevenK> Can we even do that?
<slangasek> no
<slangasek> but I'm asking if that's what he's asking for :)
<persia> slangasek: That would be one way to do it.  An alternate would be to pull from hardy in such a way as to resync for hardy+1.
<slangasek> right, kicking the package out of the dist is the only method that's consistent with the current model
<persia> slangasek: There's actually a bug outstanding for each of those requests.  I'm just not sure which of the many workarounds is currently preferred.
<slangasek> persia: I think it's reasonable to kick the package out under those circumstances; while Debian unstable is something that users run long-term for its own sake, Ubuntu's "development" dist is pretty explicitly a staging ground for the next release
<slangasek> so not a place to carry stuff that shouldn't be in a release at all due to licensing reasons
 * Hobbsee waves
 * slangasek waves
<persia> slangasek: Thanks.  I'll retitle & subscribe the archive admins.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> Good evening :)
<bddebian> Hi persia
 * imbrandon waves to all
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> my firefox is taking up 375mb of ram :D
 * joejaxx is an internet power user :D
<StevenK> I had Transmission taking up 1.4Gb before I closed it
 * Fujitsu 's Epiphany is eating 120, but X is rather suspiciously eating 250.
<joejaxx> joejaxx    834 53.9 36.3 633152 375944 ?       Rl   Dec17 718:08 /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin
<joejaxx> lol
<StevenK> Fujitsu: That 250 is probably mostly textures
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Gecko textures, yes.
<joejaxx> StevenK: 1.4gb lol :P
<Fujitsu> And if Gecko crashes, they don't get freed until X is restarted.
 * persia cheers gecko, and points at midori for those who don't agree
<Hobbsee> slangasek: that LP bug got fixed.  i could still delete before, as deletions don't generate mail anyway, FYI
 * Fujitsu thinks <release>-changes should probably be renamed to <release>-selected-manual-uploads-if-LP-feels-up-to-it
<persia> heh
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> heh
<Fujitsu> It doesn't track -updates migrations, deletions, autosyncs...
<Fujitsu> Security notifications are meant to return in 20 minutes, but somebody stuffed up the announcement...
<Fujitsu> s/20 minutes/40 minutes ago/
<slangasek> Hobbsee: ah, ok
<Hobbsee> slangasek: i can accept and reject packages.  that's about it
 * slangasek nods
<Hobbsee> and i have to poke one of you to work around YALPB whenever i accept a package, too
<Hobbsee> which triggers YALPB#2 if done in a particular timeframe.
<Fujitsu> The main default?
<Fujitsu> And associated upload failure?
<Hobbsee> yes
<TheMuso> Interesting. http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007121901026NWDTRL
<LucidFox> Bah.
<LucidFox> If they use proprietary software to do that, this will be exactly what Stallman feared.
<dadehoog> yeah, that's really a compromise which ends any hope of open formats for DVDs/media
<superm1> hey folks, if anyone is feeling up for a revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ical2sqlite
<bluefoxicy> awesome
<bluefoxicy> I got random e-mail
<bluefoxicy> through extensive googling, some guy writing a paper has determined I am the person most familiar with Ubuntu Linux's security posture
<bluefoxicy> What the hell gave him that impression?
<bluefoxicy> Oh well, everything he lists is stuff I'm familiar with so okay.
<Fujitsu> You've written all the security specs.
<bluefoxicy> rofl
<bluefoxicy> PITTI is probably most familiar with Ubuntu's security posture
<bluefoxicy> or Kees Cook
<verb3k> LucidFox,  Hi, See this:    http://psxim.googlecode.com/    :)
<verb3k> LucidFox, what do you think? is there anything missing?
<bderrly_> so i want to update the libtorrent/rtorrent packages in gutsy, i see they are maintained by MOTU but they haven't been updated in a long time. is there someone that could go through the process with me so i can get the hang of packaging?
<bderrly_> i've read through several of the packaging docs on the wiki, etc but there are so many different ways of doing that i'm a bit confused about the best way to tackle a package
<persia> bderrly_: The best way to update a package is to keep the same packaging style.
<bderrly_> makes sense
 * Fujitsu saw something on Planet Debian recently about those new versions.
<bderrly_> Fujitsu, yah, i talked with the guy that packages them for debian, but i want to get them in ubuntu
<bderrly_> no one has updated those packages for ubuntu since april i htink
<bderrly_> even though debian has updated several times since then
<Fujitsu> Those actions are largely the same.
<Fujitsu> !info rtorrent hardy
<ubotu> rtorrent: ncurses BitTorrent client based on LibTorrent. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.7.8-1 (hardy), package size 351 kB, installed size 948 kB
<Fujitsu> We take almost all of our package from Debian.
<bderrly_> but who does that and when?
<verb3k> Fujitsu, are you a motu?
<Fujitsu> I am.
<persia> bderrly_: The set of all package contributors for packages with ubuntu versions, and the automated script run by the archive-admins at the beginning of each development cycle.
<Fujitsu> bderrly_: It is largely automatic until last week.
<verb3k> Fujitsu, I need a favor, I have written a python and it now needs packaging and you know that's not easy, could you make the deb for me? the program's home is here:  http://psxim.googlecode.com/
<verb3k> Fujitsu,  a python program*
<verb3k> Fujitsu, it's only one file
 * Fujitsu notes that there are more capable MOTU around, that he doesn't like writing new packages, and that he is a little busy at the moment.
<persia> verb3k: As I told you before, if you want someone else to package it, you should file a needs-packaging bug.  If you don't want it in universe, this isn't the right place to ask.
<verb3k> persia, didn't know that packaging is so hard like that :)
<nxvl> hi folks
<bderrly_> Fujitsu, so how do i get these packages updated in gutsy?
<Fujitsu> bderrly_: We're not Gentoo. YOu could try backports, though.
<Fujitsu> !backports | bderrly_
<ubotu> bderrly_: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<cheguevara> bderrly_, you may wanna work on getting them updated for hardy
 * Fujitsu wonders if s/they go/they can go/ might be a good idea.
 * persia seconds Fujitsu
<persia> Err.  Or maybe "may"?
<Fujitsu> I think either should be acceptable.
<Fujitsu> You have bot powers now, don't you?
<persia> Fujitsu: I may be an editor, but that's like saying I'm licensed to fly intergalactic craft: it doesn't help me actually do anything.
<persia> (the distinction being I could probably read something in the former case, but don't know what)
 * Fujitsu isn't sure of the command to run regexps over a factoid, but does know how to set them.
<pwnguin> verb3k: i think 23 minutes after release is a bit early to be asking for a package
<persia> Fujitsu: My problem is that ubotu doesn't believe I'm me.  Trying to convince it I'm real again now.  If this works, maybe I can do something.  If not, we can submit to the moderation queue.
<persia> pwnguin: The release was only to support packaging.
<pwnguin> interesting
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Hobbsee> what's the bot problem?
<persia> Hobbsee: I don't know how to wrangle, and !backports needs an extra "can" or "may".
 * persia is trying to learn now...
<Hobbsee> ubotu: backports is ~s/they go/they can go/
<ubotu> But backports already means something else!
<Hobbsee> !no backports is <reply> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<ubotu> I'll remember that Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Danke.
<Hobbsee> i dont' remember the regexpisms.
<verb3k> pwnguin, It was released long ago and tested , I just made a hoepage for the project becasue a MOTU said do that before you buidl your package
<Hobbsee> i think there's documentation on it somewhere, though
<persia> What is "!no"?
<verb3k> build*
<Fujitsu> persia: Overwriting an existing factoid.
<persia> Ah.
<Fujitsu> One would normally do `!newfactoid is whatever', but that will fail if it exists, as Hobbsee adeptly demonstrated.
<verb3k> pwnguin, besides, I am not asking for universe inclusion, I am just trying to get help from packagers
<Fujitsu> I don't think you're likely to find packages here if it's not for universe.
<persia> heh.  I learned enough to discover that I'm not a licensed bot wrangler.  Now I can stop worrying and go back to pestering others :)  Thanks Hobbsee (as always)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<pwnguin> verb3k: why not?
<pwnguin> if it has a package, and is tested etc
<pwnguin> verb3k: it might as well be in universe
 * persia notes it would likely be multiverse anyway
<verb3k> pwnguin, Does the universe follow some rules for inclusion regarding quality? (like the debian stable)
<bderrly_> wow, the upgrade to hardy is pretty large
<bderrly_> 651MB
<bderrly_> 920 packages upgraded
<Fujitsu> That's quite small.
<persia> bderrly_: It's just getting started...
<pwnguin> verb3k: different rules
<TheMuso> 000/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<bderrly_> guess i had better get it now then ;)
<pwnguin> verb3k: if you, as the upstream author, are not prepared to accept bug reports from users, its probably not a good idea
<verb3k> pwnguin, I would like to solve bugs in my program, that's good practice
<verb3k> pwnguin, google code has a decent tracker
<pwnguin> persia: i dont see why it'd go in multiverse if the code's free and doesnt depend on nonfree
<pwnguin> verb3k: as does launchpad ;)
<pwnguin> does lp track google code yet?
<Fujitsu> That would be a no. Bug #78395.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78395 in malone "Support Google Code's issue tracker" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78395
<pwnguin> anyways, its fine if you use google
<pwnguin> not upstreams problem if it doesnt
<verb3k> pwnguin, I may switch to launchpad, I make up my mind later
<pwnguin> verb3k: ideally, you'd get it into ubuntu and debian unstable at least
<verb3k> pwnguin, good, have you seen the code? do you think it can stand on its feet?
<pwnguin> im looking at the google code svn
<pwnguin> its empty
<verb3k> pwnguin, yes XD , I just put the tarball
<verb3k> pwnguin, downloads
<pwnguin> check it into cvs/svn/bzr at least, so distros can track commits for patches
<verb3k> pwnguin, will do
<persia> pwnguin: I thought it was a firmware manager for a non-free emulator.  Shouldn't that depend on the emulator, making it multiverse?
<pwnguin> from what i can tell
<pwnguin> it rips cds
<pwnguin> we have tools to rip music to disk
<verb3k> persia, that's true, you do NOT need to play it in an emulator, you can just back it up for later burning
<persia> My misunderstanding.  I thought it packed into the right format for a PSX emulator.  It's certainly free for real hardware.
<pwnguin> again, oggenc isnt in multiverse, nor is sound juicer
<pwnguin> verb3k: unfortunately, im not in MOTU, and not at all familiar with psx emulation or python
<persia> pwnguin: Right.  I misunderstood.  If I were packaging a ROM manager for MAME, I'd rather be multiverse and depend on a MAME than be universe.  On the other hand, PS X hardware is more common than arcade cabinets.
<pwnguin> im not sure why rarity matters
<pwnguin> psx hardware is commonly modded to play backups
<verb3k> the original psx didn't need modchips to play backups
<pwnguin> shennanigans
<verb3k> maybe later versions yes
<persia> pwnguin: One sets Recommends & Suggests based on the common case.  Universe Recommending Multiverse is frowned upon.  If the common case is real hardware, than Suggests: is correct.  If the common case is emulators, Recommends: is correct.
<pwnguin> unless you're referring to the console port in the back
 * Fujitsu wonders what this PS X is. Is it some generation of the Sony PlayStation that I've never heard of?
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.
<pwnguin> its the old term for the playstation one
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<pwnguin> apparently there was some playstation hardware running simply as a drive to the snes
<pwnguin> that got scrapped and they called the new project psx internally, i guess
<verb3k> Initially, sony wasn't planning to enter gaming business  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation
<persia> verb3k: You should really put your code repo up...
<pwnguin> assuming one ever existed
<pwnguin> it would be nice to import that into the public repo on google code
<verb3k> it's a fresh account
<pwnguin> indeed
<pwnguin> but it should be able to import histories
<pwnguin> verb3k: about how many users do you think you have currently?
<verb3k> pwnguin, I don't know , didn't release it for the gaming community yet
<verb3k> many developers saw it
<verb3k> but not many gamers
<verb3k> one thing I find very daunting in programming, is the amount of knowledge you should have to complete a single task.....that's very good but requires a lot of time, dedication, and lots of reading
<pwnguin> depends on the task
<verb3k> and lots of research
<pwnguin> but basically, yea, preparing is better than diving in head first
<verb3k> I am trying to find problems that interest me to solve them with python, this psxim tool initially was a bash script I did for myself only, then thought about sharing it, and then making a GUI etc.....chains of ideas :)
<pwnguin> is it possible to detect which drives have a psx disc in them?
<verb3k> pwnguin, I thought about that but didn't really search or ask
<verb3k> I think it's achievable
<pwnguin> not a requirement, but it might make it slightly more substantial
<verb3k> true
<pwnguin> alternatively, it might mean you could write a nautilus script
<pwnguin> well, i just broke another chair
<pwnguin> guess i need to go to walmart
<Fujitsu> ...
<pwnguin> verb3k: later; if nobody wants to put it directly into universe or debian unstable, you might see if a "packaging jam" is being held locally
<verb3k> what's that?
<pwnguin> verb3k: a LoCo training session
<pwnguin> for packaging
<verb3k> my loco is shattered
<pwnguin> but jono cant possibly use normal words, being a british
<verb3k> 5 or so people and then can't find them anymore
<verb3k> In fact, LUGs are more common than LoCos
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> locos in the US feel a bit silly
<verb3k> the local community needs join forces instead of splitting in smaller groups( you know gentoo guys, ubuntu guys and suse guys)
<verb3k> to*
<pwnguin> well, its nice to have resources available to ask "how do i do x" in cases where it varies between gentoo, ububntu etc
<tritium> verb3k: I don't find LoCos in the U.S. silly
<verb3k> I didn't say that LOL :)
<tritium> Ah, that was pwnguin, sorry ;)
<TheMuso> Yay for a package having an MD5/size mismatch causing debmirror to fail. :)
<verb3k> pwnguin, that's true but nor for all countries, there are countries where you barely find a Linux user
<verb3k> pwnguin, not*
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Broken mirror?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: No, the problem is on auc as well.
<Fujitsu> Ah, that bug.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Oh its known?
 * TheMuso shouldn't be surprised.
<TheMuso> But is
<Fujitsu> Yes. I'll find it.
<TheMuso> np
<Fujitsu> Bug #174038
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174038 in soyuz "bad md5sum in Packages file" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174038
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: You really seem to be quite up on soyuz shortcomings.
 * Fujitsu ends up reading most Soyuz/Malone bugs.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: he does a lot of soyuz support.  crazy guy
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<TheMuso> heh
 * persia wonders if the 1.12 rollout was successful, and if it fixed the bug that annoyed me.
<Fujitsu> The announcement was wrong.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Incorrect, evil, or both?
<persia> Ah.  Then no, and no, and more so, not good questions anyway.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> It apparently wasn't attempted. The date was probably listed incorrectly.
<persia> Maybe they are using the 49-hour international day, and it's still pending RSN.
<Fujitsu> It says UTC, and I haven't seen any other announcements about it happening, whereas there are usually emails.
<persia> Right.  Looking again, I was doing bug triage during the upgrade window, so would have noticed.  Isn't it usually Thursdays anyway?  Maybe the 20th?
 * Fujitsu wonders why that md5sum bug isn't Critical and long-fixed...
<warp10> Hi all!
<Fujitsu> Hi warp10.
<warp10> Fujitsu: hi!
<blueyed> Is is "a EVMS object" or "an EVMS object"? What's the rule again?
<Fujitsu> That's debateable.
<Fujitsu> I would say the latter, as it's very rarely expanded, but others would disagree.
<Fujitsu> Wait, in both cases it is the latter.
<persia> The rule is that the 'n' is included if the following word begins with a vowel (sometimes including 'h' and excluding 'y')
<Fujitsu> Right. But acronyms can get interesting to pronounce with that policy, but that particular one isn't afflicted.
<blueyed> yes, I remember that it's not only the letter, but the sound.
<persia> blueyed: Right, which is why it is often "an hour" and "a yellow dog"
<blueyed> Does a patch like the following make sense really? Or does it only put work on the translators? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/4704937/evms-strings.patch
<persia> blueyed: It makes a lot of sense, and is a good patch, and should be applied upstream (not even Debian would be very interested).
<blueyed> persia: yes, I'd forward it in anyway. So you think I should prepare a debdiff?
<blueyed> There are two other similar bugs for the same package.
<blueyed> (with smaller patches)
<persia> blueyed: I don't see anything there that might be confusing, just typos & the like.  I'd not sponsor that, and don't expect others would: the problem is that it makes all the strings fuzzy for small benefit.
<blueyed> Ok. So then it should only get forwarded upstream?
<persia> blueyed: Right, and watched, and closed when upstream accepts it.  Was there a change that would reduce confusion, or changed something that was wrong, it would make more sense to apply an Ubuntu-specific patch.
 * persia notes that the guidelines are a little different for packages in main due to Rosetta, and that the answer may be different (but not likely very different).
<blueyed> persia: submitted the patch to upstream (luckily on SF.net) and added bug watches. Sometime launchpad is really nice.. ;)
<persia> blueyed: Sometimes :)  Please stay subscribed, as LP can't yet tell when it's fixed by tracking the upstream bug into the repos.
 * Fujitsu notes that LP should actually grab the status of SF bugs from 1.1.12.
<blueyed> Fujitsu: yes, but it does not close the Ubuntu task.
<persia> Fujitsu: As in actually report them as "closed elsewhere" for easy tracking?
<Fujitsu> persia: Yes.
<Fujitsu> SourceForge is the only type of bugtracker import that doesn't do that at the moment.
 * persia anticipates significant growth of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.status_upstream=resolved_upstream
<Fujitsu> Hopefully.
<Fujitsu> And we even get importance syncing soon.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> damn wrong ta
<TheMuso> tab
<persia> Fujitsu: What's the MOTU-swat workflow?  Does it involve subscriptions for things like bug #176931?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176931 in lookup-el "[lookup-el] [CVE-2007-0237] possible local symlink attack" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176931
<Fujitsu> persia: Yes please. I wish hk47 would subscribe us, as he files a lot.
<persia> Fujitsu: This should probably be documented somewhere :)
<Fujitsu> Quite possibly.
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> morning
<dholbach> hey geser
<geser> Hi dholbach
<slytherin> what is format for specifying LP bug number in changelog?
<geser> LP: #nnn
<slytherin> geser: thanks
<slytherin> One more question.  a package doesn't exist in debian yet, I am packaging it for Ubuntu. Is the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field necessary?
<minghua> No if the maintainer address you use is an @ubuntu.com one, I believe.
<persia> If you plan to have the package be team maintained, it's good to add your name as the Original-Maintainer to note that you are a good contact if people have questions.
<slytherin> persia: No plans like that as of now.
<slytherin> I have just added libxml-commons-external-java to revu. This is one step forward in getting latest batik in Ubuntu. It is my first attempt at java library packaging from scratch. So please hammer slowly. :-D
<Fujitsu> Mightn't it be an idea to get batik to build on the buildds in the first place, before upgrading it?
<slytherin> Fujitsu: Tried that already. Too many errors. 1.7 beta will build if this library is in and a small problem in build.xml is fixed via a patch. :-)
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
<Fujitsu> Using icedtea or gcj?
<slytherin> Fujitsu: gcj
<huats> MOTUs and hopeful : Hello :)
 * persia complains about discrimination against core-devs and happy contributors :)
<huats> ;)
 * dholbach hugs y'all :)
<huats> persia: if you want I can leave and come back to make it ok :)
<persia> huats: No worries.  I just like complaining about that :)
 * huats always knew that you like to complain..
<huats> :)
<persia> Does anyone in the SRU team intend to attend the MOTU meeting on Friday?
<TheMuso> Don't think I can make it.
<TheMuso> Actually, I could make that
<TheMuso> persia: I don't think its hard to use. I've almost got the steps memorised, both for making one, and checking one.
<persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with that, it's just that there was an SRU team meeting last week, and I'd like to see a report of the updated process.  If someone is attending, and wouldn't mind preparing a short note as an agenda item, it might be nice (but is definitely wishlist).
<TheMuso> Right.
 * persia cheers, and travels
<proppy> hi
<dsop> must an upstream makefile support the DESTDIR variable ?
<stdin> dsop: if it doesn't use autoconf then yes
<elmargol> It think I'm not allowed to change files outside the debian folder?
<elmargol> Somehow the f-spot package does this
<pochu> elmargol: if you need to do it use a patch system
 * StevenK tries to figure out why a CDBS using package fails with dh_install
<StevenK> ... Interesting. The terminal that build is in is orange ...
<StevenK> I think the Ubuntu theme is re-asserting itself
<Kmos> norsetto: morning
<norsetto> morning
<dholbach> hey norsetto - how's your network?
<Kmos> dholbach: hi :)
<dholbach> hi Kmos
<norsetto> dholbach: hey! finally solved my problems with my IP
<dholbach> norsetto: how did you solve it?
<dholbach> everybody cheer! we have norsetto back!
<norsetto> dholbach: by calling them and giving them a hard time ....
<dholbach> and how did they fix it?
<norsetto> dholbach: no idea, what they told me is that there was a problem in the "central", I guess just a server went boing last thunderstorm
<imbrandon> moins all
 * imbrandon yawns
<dholbach> norsetto: I'm really glad you're back
<norsetto> yes, his colon is still ok
 * txwikinger2 sympathy-yawns
<imbrandon> imbrandon == imbrandon++; today is the last birhtday of my 20's :(
<imbrandon> hehe
<dholbach>   ____ ___  _   _  ____ ____      _  _____ ____  _
<dholbach>  / ___/ _ \| \ | |/ ___|  _ \    / \|_   _/ ___|| |
<dholbach> | |  | | | |  \| | |  _| |_) |  / _ \ | | \___ \| |
<dholbach> | |__| |_| | |\  | |_| |  _ <  / ___ \| |  ___) |_|
<dholbach>  \____\___/|_| \_|\____|_| \_\/_/   \_\_| |____/(_)
<dholbach>                                                    
<dholbach> ! :-)
<imbrandon> hehe thanks dholbach
<txwikinger2> long live monospace
<Kmos> imbrandon: happy birthday!
<pochu> happy birthday imbrandon :)
<txwikinger2> happy bday imbrandon
<norsetto> imbrandon: happy (!?) birthday
 * imbrandon feels loved
 * txwikinger2 feels really old
<Kmos> we need to get an irc admin to kill him with "HAPPY BIRTHDAY"
<Kmos> :)
<imbrandon> Kmos: i'm a freenode staff, guess i could do it myself LOL
<Kmos> imbrandon: lolll
 * norsetto thinks txwikinger is a reckless youngster
<Kmos> imbrandon: isn't a bad idea.. onself kill
 * txwikinger2 is probably double the age of norsetto :)
<txwikinger2> what does that make norsetto then? :D
<norsetto> since we are talking about age, I think somebody just turned to the top position again (well, at least he joined me)
<imbrandon> heh age is all relitive, i turn 29 today and it dont bug me a bit, i love birthdays , but my wife is a few months older than me ( turned 29 in sept ) and it kills her
<imbrandon> lol
<norsetto> txwikinger2: I doubt you are 90 years old, but then I could be wrong
<txwikinger2> what is the top position? the oldest person?
<txwikinger2> Nah.. not 90 :D
<imbrandon> the only bad part is its still 5am here, so no one else is awake yet :)
<txwikinger2> a lot of people never really wake up anyway
<imbrandon> heh
 * txwikinger2 thinks otherwise they wouldn't prefer Windows over Ubuntu ;)
<Kmos> bug 173529
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173529 in python-coverage "Please sync python-coverage 2.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173529
<effie_jayx> DaD is down?
<Kmos> what can I do about this one?
<Kmos> effie_jayx: yes
<effie_jayx> Kmos,  thanks
 * txwikinger2 wonders if he can convert to Islam for one day in order to take advantage of the religious holiday tomorrow
<norsetto> kmos: you should check why there is this difference
<dsop> okay, 10th try or somewhat to get my p[ackage included :)
<Kmos> norsetto: i'll check.. but the comparison is about debian and ubutu .orig.tar.gz ?
<Kmos> debian: 10525
<Kmos> ubuntulog: 10514
<Kmos> at ubuntu: 10514
<norsetto> kmos: yes, so, why is there such a difference? Has the upstream tarball been changed by  Ubuntu or Debian, and why? If the Debian one is correct than we can sync.
<Kmos> the ubuntu .orig.tar.gz unpacks to python-coverage-2.6.orig and debian to python-coverage-2.6
<Kmos> i think this won't change it's size
<Kmos> i've done a diff agains the only file inside the .tar.gz
<Kmos> coverage.py
<Kmos> and it doesn't have any differences from debian to ubuntu
<Kmos> let's check upstream - http://www.nedbatchelder.com/code/modules/coverage.htm
<Kmos> the upstream is now 2.77 and not 2.6
<Kmos> already reported to debian bts
<Kmos> and it doesn't have the old .tar.gz to download
<Kmos> i'll comment the bug report
<norsetto> kmos: can you wait until I check too?
<Kmos> norsetto: ups.. already done
<Kmos> :)
<Kmos> i've commented what I found
<zul> morning
<Kmos> norsetto: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/python-coverage
<mruiz> hi all
 * Hobbsee waves
<MenZa> hey Hobbsee
<pochu> hi Hobbsee
<RainCT> hi
<Hobbsee> :)
<mruiz> hi pochu , Hobbsee , MenZa , RainCT
<pochu> hey mruiz
<totopalma> hi all :)
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<ScottK> StevenK: Thank you for touching python-numpy.
<StevenK> Oh, damn.
<StevenK> Now I've touched it last.
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya geser
<StevenK> ScottK: It and 45 other packages
<ScottK> StevenK: I think Fujitsu was looking into the new numpy in any case.
<StevenK> Ah. I'm only trying to get at NBS packages
 * persia praises norsetto for his excellent packaging skills
<mruiz> hi all... DaD is offline?
<persia> mruiz: 404 from here
<mruiz> thanks for the confirmation persia... I got the magic number too
<persia> mruiz: Try MoM or http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/ if you need, but at this point it's better to close bugs than to chase merges.
<mruiz> ftbfs bugs are a goal?
<persia> mruiz: Very much so.  Are you looking for something to do?
<mruiz> persia, yes... :D
<Adri2000> mruiz: well, I don't know what's going on with DaD... and I don't seem to be able to ssh in the server from here
<persia> mruiz: I'd suggest picking packages and doing general improvement runs.  FTBFS fixes are great if you can, but some are tricky.  Easier would be package updates & watch files from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/,  Even easier would be dependency fixes from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/
<persia> mruiz: Start from one of FTBFS, UEHS, or debcheck, pick a package, check the LP bugs for easy ones, and prep a candidate.
<mruiz> thanks Adri2000 for the explanation about that
<verb3k> LucidFox, Hi .....I don't like to be annoying but I did you you told me to do
 * persia encourages verb3k to file a bug rather than poking on IRC
<verb3k> persia, argh ... you caught me :)
<mruiz> persia, I'll start with dependency fixes
<verb3k> persia, I guess I;ll have to take the hard way and learn packaging
<verb3k> I'll*
<persia> mruiz: That's probably a good place.  I strongly recommend you take a look at all of UEHS, FTBFS, LP, MDT, and the BTS when you pick a package.  Often there are good fixes in other places that you can combine to make a more useful upload.
<slytherin> I have quickly fixed an FTBFS for libglazedists-java by adding java-gcj-compat-dev to Build-Depends. How and where to upload the fix?
<persia> slytherin: Add a debdiff to a bug.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<slytherin> persia: Does that mean first log a bug?
<persia> slytherin: Check to see if there is one first, but likely.
<slytherin> persia: I picked up the package from the ftbfs list on qa.ubuntuwire.com. So I doubt there is a bug already
<persia> slytherin: Yes, there likely isn't, but it's always best to check.
<slytherin> persia: Ok. One more thing. is it possible to send mails to debian packagers to have java-gcj-compat-dev as first build dependency in all the java related packages? I think it will reduce lot of ftbfs. Currently most of them have sun jdk as build dependency which can not be installed non-interactively.
<persia> slytherin: My understanding is that it is polite to discuss possible mass-bug filing in mailing lists first in Debian.  Best to track down the mailing list for the debian-java team, and send a note there.
<slytherin> persia: Ok. I will finish this package first and then send mail on list if there is one.
<persia> slytherin: Thank you.  Getting java in better shape is a tough job, and I'm really glad to see someone tackling it.
<slytherin> persia: I am a java developer so I can put more brain in these issues. :-)
<persia> :)
<mruiz> UEHS: Ubuntu External Health Status... in this case, what does mean external ?
<imbrandon> upstream
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> mruiz: That list contains all the packages unique to Ubuntu or orphaned in Debian, for which we can't verify they are in sync with upstream.  These typically benefit from a look.
<slytherin> persia: Done. bug 177477
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177477 in libglazedlists-java "Fix FTBFS by adding java-gcj-compat-dev as build dependency" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177477
<geser> Hi bddebian
<persia> slytherin: Great.  You'll want to set the status to "Confirmed" (subscribing the sponsors queue is the special exception to the general rule of not confirming your own bugs), but otherwise it looks good.
<slytherin> persia: I will leave that to sponsors. :-)
<slytherin> I am actually enjoying this. :-D
<persia> slytherin: Please confirm it.  When processing the sponsors queue, we look at confirmed unassigned bugs first, and when tired or lazy, sometimes just push the others out of the queue for not being properly formed (we try not to do this, but sometimes after 10 rejections, one gets trigger-happy)
<slytherin> Ok. :-)
<slytherin> done
<bddebian> Heya geser
<persia> slytherin: Thank you.
<promag> is this the place to ask questions about packaging?
<promag> well
<promag> I have an autoconf/automake project (c++)
<promag> the makefile's create multiple binaries and libraries
<persia> promag: For packaging of applications for Ubuntu, yes.
<promag> I want to create several debian packages
<promag> from this autoconf/automake project
<promag> for each library I want to create a package
<persia> promag: The general rule of thumb is to split a source package into two packages per library (lib + dev), a separate package for any daemon, and separate userspace packages for qt, gtk, tk, console, etc.
<promag> two packages per library?
<promag> dev is the source?
<persia> The library packaging guide (http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html) and the package splitting guide (http://wiki.debian.org/PkgSplit) will be useful adjuncts to the packaging guide (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/).
<promag> ok
<promag> so there's no relation between packaging and makefile.am's?
<persia> promag: libfoo0.0.1 is the actual library.  libfoo-dev is the development headers, etc.  foo-tools is the small utilities that use the library.
<persia> promag: If you have a good makefile.am, you can make a very small debian/rules file if you don't mind a bit of make magic: see https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<promag> well, I have several makefile.am
<persia> promag: Does the entire thing build with automake; ./configure; make; make install --DESTDIR=./debian/tmp/ ?
<promag> yes
<promag> You use CDBS?
<persia> promag: I am only a secondary maintainer, so I use whichever packaging system the original maintainer used.  I personally like CDBS when it works, and find it annoying when it doesn't.  Usually it can be made to work.
<promag> persia: thanks for your time
<promag> I think I'll try cdbs
<promag> ohh
<persia> promag: No problem.  Good luck with your packaging, and feel free to ask questions here if you get stuck.
<promag> one more question
<promag> it works for any language?
<promag> lets say I want to build a package with some php code and flex apps in the middle
<imbrandon> mmm nice
<persia> As long as your build system manages that, it should be fine.  Basically, debian/rules is a makefile, which has some defined targets that get called during the build process.  These in turn tend to call hooks into the original source build system.
<\sh> django is a cool framework...
<imbrandon> i just got my old unused palm VIIx ( ancient thing ) to work as an external lcd display when in the cradle
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> When you use CDBS, you're including a bunch of makefile snippets already written by other people which do most of the work for you, and there is good support for hooking into autotools.
<persia> imbrandon: VNC?
<promag> persia: ok thanks I'll try it
<imbrandon> no, just like a 20x4 text display
<mruiz> persia, finally I decided to update a package: adtools ... also I'm looking for doc about debian/rules
<imbrandon> persia: via serial, matrixorbital lcd driver
<persia> imbrandon: I had VNC working on my III.  You ought to be able to get some graphics :)
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> never thought about vnc on a palm
<imbrandon> well older palm
<persia> imbrandon: Just run a special X server to feed the VNC, and then send your clients to the appropriate display (assuming you set the appropriate permissions).
<persia> mruiz: Debian policy defines the required rules.  Beyond that, it's just a makefile, and all the tricks from http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html are acceptable.  The more you can make it not look like a shell script, the better (but don't adjust packaging too much for an update)
<Adri2000> has anyone visited DaD today before around 11:00 UTC (that was 4:30 hours ago) ?
<Adri2000> and was it working? or was it already 404ing?
<promag> persia: how does cdbs knows the control files for the packages I want to create?
<persia> promag: You need to manually generate control, rules, and copyright.  For a package split, you will also need a bunch of debian/package.dirs and debian/package.install files.
<persia> Also, you'll need a changelog: I suggest creating this with dch
<promag> persia: any change of dhc fetch comments from svn?
<promag> *chance
<persia> promag: You don't want that.  The application changelog (./changelog) contains the upstream changes.  The debian changelog (debian/changelog) contains packaging changes.
<promag> persia: Any online reference about multiple debian/packages.dirs and debian/package.install ?
<persia> promag: Should be in the library packaging guide and package split guide I pasted before.  The dh_install manpage is also informative.
<promag> persia: I'm a bit lost with cdbs
<promag> can I call dh_make to create necessary files?
<pochu> Yes, but the debian/rules file created won't be cdbs, but debhelper style
<pochu> You can remove and create a cdbs rules file then, as cdbs is simple
<pochu> dunno if there's a better way...
<promag> but dh_make asks this:
<promag> Type of package: single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module or cdbs?
<promag> I choose cdbs
<promag> right?
<pochu> Heh, didn't know that :-)
<promag> well me too :P
<promag> :-p
<promag> my project creates a program (binary) and several plugins (libraries)
<promag> cdbs is fine?
<txwikinger> when I do an interdiff, how does it considers the fact that the orig.tars are different?
<pochu> Yes, although debhelper is fine too.
<promag> pochu: well but I'm noob
<promag> supa noob
<promag> :-p
<promag> after doing dh_make I do "debuild -S"
<promag> it says "make[1]: *** No rule to make target `distclean'."
<promag> ohh ok
<promag> -S creates a source package
<promag> gpg: skipped "promag <promag@localhost>": secret key not available
<promag> what can I  do?
<pochu> promag: also dh_make will create a template. You need to edit it :)
<pochu> s/it/the files in debian\//g
<promag> pochu: leet :-p
<promag> ok
<pochu> promag: either pass "-us -uc" (unsign source, unsign changes) to debuild, or set "DEBMAIL"
<pochu> (or was it DEBEMAIL?)
<pochu> That's for the secret key issue
<promag> pochu: well I'm toying with hello.tar.gz just to see what happens
<promag> so do I need to edit templates?
<pochu> After dh_make, yes
<pochu> for example look at debian/copyright
<pochu> There's no copyright information, just a template :)
<promag> pochu: and what about generating packages from svn tags ?
<pochu> promag: sorry, I'm not sure what you mean
<verb3k> The flash plugin is broken and I finally got the recently released flash player but it is really really slow, is there a way to get the previous version?
<promag> supose I tag a source revision as version 0.2
<pochu> Then the package should be called foo_0.2.orig.tar.gz
<pochu> (the debian one, upstream's should be foo-0.2.tar.gz)
<promag> then, to build a package, I need to checkout /svn/foo/tags/0.2 foo
<pochu> svn export rather
<pochu> as export will remove the .svn/ directories :)
<promag> right
<pochu> promag: and svn/foo/tags/0.2 foo-0.2
<pochu> better :)
<promag> ok... what about the tar.gz?
<pochu> promag: if you copy the foo-0.2 to foo-0.2.orig, before creating the debian/ subdir, it will be generated when you create the source tarball
<pochu> e.g. dpkg-source -b foo-0.2
<pochu> (foo-0.2.orig/ shouldn't have a debian/ subdir)
<promag> pochu: much appreciate
<warp10> Hi all!
 * txwikinger is confused about Bug #73612
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 73612 in ubuntu "please sync python-ldap-doc from Debian Sid" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73612
<txwikinger> Wenn was this package ever uploaded?
<txwikinger> When
<geser> txwikinger: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+queue?queue_state=4&queue_text=python-ldap
<amitprakash> hi... i set a ubuntu repo using http://nerdica.com/?p=43
<geser> txwikinger: it was rejected but don't ask me why
<amitprakash> however .. when other clients update.. they give preference to the official repositories
<norsetto> txwikinger: apparently it was in dapper: python-ldap-doc | 2.0.4-1ubuntu4 |        dapper | all
<amitprakash> does anyone know why is this so or how to fix this
<RainCT> wow, it's easy to setup a repo :)
<txwikinger> ah thanks geser, norsetto
<RainCT> amitprakash: what do you mean exactly with "it gives preference"?
<geser> norsetto: as the bug said, it got split from python-doc
 * geser notices that the PTS has a new layout
<geser> txwikinger: you might want to ask why it didn't got included in Ubuntu
 * RainCT notices it too
<amitprakash> RainCT, i mean if its available on my repo.. it shouldnt download from official repos
<pochu> Do they have the same version?
<amitprakash> pochu, yes
<pochu> amitprakash: then why should it use your package? I trust more the archive than your repo :)
<pochu> amitprakash: just bump your package's version
<pochu> What are you packaging by the way? :)
<txwikinger> geser: Who should I ask? Who might know?
<geser> txwikinger: I don't know who might remember but try Mithrandir or pitti in #ubuntu-devel
<jeromeg> is it possible to remove a package from a ppa ?
<geser> jeromeg: yes, but afaik and irrc currently only through opening an answer ticket
<jeromeg> geser: ok, where should I open it ?
<amitprakash> pochu, no other way ?? i wanted it so that i could get people to use the already downloaded repos
 * txwikinger thinks debian is cheating
<jeromeg> geser: in the launchpad answer tracker ?
<awen_> hi... i'm trying to set up pbuilder to be able to package for multiple distributions as describet in the howto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto ... it works fine when using pbuilder, but pdebuild still looks for the base.tgz (it seems that either the DIST variable doesn't get passed), anyone know how to make it work?
<geser> jeromeg: iirc yes, but ask in #launchpad first, I can't find right now, where I read it
<jeromeg> geser: I just asked and got a reply, thank you
<awen-> seems i lost the connection. did anyone have a hint for me? =)
<pochu> awen-: no
<amitprakash> pochu, no other way ?? i wanted it so that i could get people to use the already downloaded repos
<pochu> What do you mean with already downloaded repos?
<awen-> ahh PBUILDERROOTCMD="sudo -E"
<Ubulette> asac, vv
<Ubulette> fta@ix:~ $ epiphany
<Ubulette> epiphany-browser: error while loading shared libraries: libplds4.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<Ubulette> oops, wrong channel
<jdong> dear world, hold me..... math exam scores are being posted......
<effie_jayx> jdong,  good luck
<cbx33> good luck jdong
 * somerville32 would changes his nick to world and then hug jdon and then change back but he is into too many channels to do that :P
<jdong> well so far average is 43/80 stddev=19
<jdong> that might just barely save me
<amitprakash> pochu, hi.. wat i meant is that i download debs from official repo.. and add em to mine
<jdong> though this term will be tight. My current expectation is a failing D.
<amitprakash> pochu, now people who use my repo get it off lan instead of net
<geser> amitprakash: like a archive mirror?
<amitprakash> geser, yes
<amitprakash> geser, however i wont it to work with apt-get
<pochu> amitprakash: do you mirror the entire archive?
<amitprakash> pochu, no.. only the part i need
<pochu> I dont know whether it's possible, sorry. And also I can't understand why you would need to copy some packages to your repo :)
<somerville32> pbuilder mirrors only the parts you need
<somerville32> so does sbuild I think
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> who knows about mesa here?
<cbx33> blender crashes on ati cards
<cbx33> and I'm trying to figure out why
<cbx33> or more accurately what I can do to fix it
<cbx33> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=11723
<totopalma> umh
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<bddebian> Heya TheMuso
<ScottK> keescook or jdstrand: Would you please have a look at Bug #177537.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177537 in clamav "Remote Code Execution" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177537
<ScottK> Looking at the debdiff it looks reasonable to me (I think this is based on the new Etch package that just got published).
<keescook> ScottK: sure thing, gimme a few minutes -- just finished rebooting into 2.6.24.  :)
<ScottK> keescook: Thanks.
<ScottK> leonel: ^^^
<leonel> ScottK: reading
<leonel> great !
<leonel> checking  feisty's  clamav  ..
<keescook> leonel: in the patch for CLI_UNPSIZELIMITS(NAME,CHK), there is a "free(section_hdr);" that isn't in the original version of the code.  Is that okay/expected?
<keescook> leonel: also, can you adjust the version to be ubuntu2.1 instead of ubuntu3 ?
<ScottK> keescook: Once you get the gutsy-security version published, I'll ask to have that backported to feisty-backports to cover that pocket.
<keescook> leonel: do you happen to have reproducers for the CVEs?
<leonel> keescook: not yet
<keescook> leonel: okay, cool. oh, and pocket needs to be "gutsy-security" too :)
<ScottK> \sh or keescook: Are we doing Universe security announcements yet?
<keescook> ScottK: I don't know what the plans are for that.  I think Fujitsu was driving it?
<ScottK> Ah.  OK. I think Fujitsu and
<ScottK> \sh are both involved.
<jdstrand> keescook: I thought there was talk of UUSN in LP
<ScottK> Thanks.
<keescook> jdstrand: cool.
<jdstrand> a cherrypick or something...
<jdstrand> I haven't seen it though
<keescook> jdstrand: oh, I think you mean the -changes announcements.
<jdstrand> probably
<jdstrand> can you tell I am fuzzy on the details?
<keescook> jdstrand: that's already happened.  I'm assuming ScottK is talking about a separate mailing list like, like for ubuntu-security-announce
<keescook> hehe
<jdstrand> oh I see
<ScottK> Or maybe I was confused.
<\sh> ScottK, hrm? I thought kees and/or jd are doing the USN announcement for any package security fix...
 * \sh is lost in django jungle
<ScottK> \sh: Dunno.  I guess it's sounding that way.
<jdstrand> \sh: currently only for main
<keescook> \sh: only the stuff in main/restricted goes out on u-security-announce
 * ScottK is lost (as usual) in Ubuntu process churn.
<jdstrand> \sh: LP now has UUSN support (at least started)
<jdstrand> keescook: I am assuming we could use the existing framework for the website
 * \sh talks with Fujitsu about all the new stuff :) from next week on I'll back on the ubuntu path  
<ScottK> slangasek: Noting the discussion about flash-plugin-nonfree on debian-release: At least in the Kubuntu packages the new Flash breaks Konqueror do to some new function they want that Konqueror doesn't have.  FYI.
<\sh> jdstrand, sounds promising :)
<keescook> jdstrand: yeah, I'd love to.  with security-in-soyuz, it'll likely be trivial.
 * ScottK also anxiously awaits the chance to endorse \sh's re-application to MOTU.
<slangasek> ScottK: can you follow up to the discussion on debian-release?  I'm not really involved with Debian stable updates
<\sh> ScottK, well, when I'm starting with my new job...there will be some new Ubuntu Projects coming from me...one idea will be to present Ubuntu People live on Interactive Flash TV :)
<leonel> keescook: that  free(section_hdr)   It's in the debian patch  so I guess  it must  be there
<keescook> leonel: okay, cool
<ScottK> slangasek: OK.  Will do.  I'm somewhat relucant to be "the Ubuntu guy" on Debian lists, but since it's you asking ...
<leonel> keescook: do you want me to redo the diff with the changes  you mention ?
<\sh> ScottK, go kill yourself on debian lists ,-)
<ScottK> Wouldn't be the first time.
<\sh> ScottK, and always tell them "launchpad is the way it works" ;)
<ScottK> \sh: I don't even say that here.
<slangasek> ScottK: you, er, are in the NM queue, so. :)
<ScottK> Yeah.  OK.
<\sh> ScottK, oh you are going the NM way...didn't know...good luck
<ScottK> \sh: A little bit at a time as I have time.
<keescook> leonel: no need, I've got it fixed up
<Fujitsu> \sh: Morning.
<\sh> hey Fujitsu
<\sh> Fujitsu, quoting jd: "<jdstrand> \sh: LP now has UUSN support (at least started)" could you elaborate a bit, pls? :)
<Flare183> bug: #175404
<TheMuso> bug 175404
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175404 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Nemo" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175404
<Flare183> oh thanks
<TheMuso> np
<Fujitsu> \sh: I haven't heard any mention of it. I know the dak hack is going away within a couple of months, though.
<Fujitsu> cprov: jdstrand mentioned that there is some kind of USN support in development in LP. Can you confirm/clarify/whatever?
<ScottK> leonel: How does Feisty look.
<leonel> ScottK: just starting making  feisty's pbuilder ..
<ScottK> leonel: OK.  Thanks.
<Lutin> for those who asked: DaD is now back online. however, all the comments have been lost :
<ScottK> Lutin: What happened?
<leonel> ScottK: need to go out be back in 1 hour approx
<totopalma> RainCT, hi :)
<Sp4rKy> ScottK: the dad repository has disappeared from the server
<RainCT> hi totopalma :)
<Adri2000> ScottK: the whole DaD directory disappeared from the server, we don't know yet why and what caused that
<ScottK> OK.
<verb3k> if I want to make a .desktop file for  a game CD ripping tool, in which category should I put it?
<verb3k> AudioVideo?
<\sh> Adri2000, vserver based?
<RainCT> Adri2000: o_O
<RainCT> Adri2000: btw, anything new?
<Sp4rKy> RainCT: we put DaD back online
<Sp4rKy> but we had to rebuild the whole DaD base
<Sp4rKy> and all comments are lost
<Sp4rKy> \sh: no, dedicated server, so very strange
<Fujitsu> Sp4rKy: I find it to be a bad idea to restore it without knowledge of how it happened. If the server was compromised, merges could have been modified, and I know some people don't thoroughly review diffs.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: it's a full 'rebuild', not a backup copy
<Sp4rKy> Fujitsu: the server was checked and seems clean, moreover, it's a rebuild (so all merges have been rebuilt)
<Fujitsu> Lutin: Right, but before it was removed there could have been other changes.
<\sh> Sp4rKy, you don't have any tools like webmin, confixx or plex on it?
<Lutin> Fujitsu: agreed
<Sp4rKy> \sh no
<Sp4rKy> no suspicious auth, nothing in history log
<Fujitsu> Is that surprising?
<Sp4rKy> a bit ^^
<\sh> thinking about the comments, you are using mysql? hopefully not remotely accessible
<Sp4rKy> \sh: dad doesn't use mysql :(
<\sh> Sp4rKy, how do you save your comments?
<Sp4rKy> plain text
<Lutin> you don't want to know :}
<Sp4rKy> oups :p
<Sp4rKy> Lutin: stop sleeping and add mysql feature to dad :p
<Lutin> better wait for the comments to be merged in MoM, if it ever happens
<\sh> if it's not a database, but plain text like sqlite or xml based...and the data is destroyed...hmmm....
<\sh> destroyed like in "rm -f comments.txt"? or more like cp /dev/null comments.txt... or something like "the server is dieing...not fast but"
<Sp4rKy> like rm -f dad.dunnewind.net ...
<\sh> oh...
<Lutin> (and -r , otherwise it wouldn't be fun)
<blueyed> StevenK: Do you remember why the >= 1080 version for kbuild has been added to the B-D in virtualbox-ose? I want to forward that to debian, it's the only diff currently.
<\sh> dedicated server you say? with a rescue or remote console from the provider?
<Sp4rKy> \sh yep
<\sh> Sp4rKy, 1. ask your provider if his system is safe...most probably an attack to the remote console (e.g. peppercon (today it's raritan) eRIC cards have an embedded linux on it, very unstable and not secure) ... I don't think you rent good hardware from the good HP people with IlO
<\sh> 2. change your provider ,-)
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<Sp4rKy> i'll ask the provider tomorrow
<Sp4rKy> anyway, i guess one of the people with rights have done some mistake yesterday / this morning
 * RainCT is about to throw his printer through the window XD
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<\sh> Sp4rKy, "people with rights"? I'm not sure, if I want to use sources from this server anymore
<Sp4rKy> \sh 2 person, me and Adri2000 :)
<Lutin> \sh: this meaning, the sysadmins
<\sh> Lutin, sysadmins don't do mistake, they destroy with purpose or because the fingers were faster then brain ;)
<Sp4rKy> what i called mistake :p
<RainCT> arghhhh. the damn printer configuration had switched by itself to "network printer", and I've been 20 minutes trying to figure out why it doesn't print ^o(
<Lutin> \sh: haha :) hope it'd be true
<\sh> Lutin, hopefully...if not, there is a third admin...and then it's exciting ,-)
<Sp4rKy> \sh error found
<Sp4rKy> \sh not a security whole
<Sp4rKy> just a whole in my brain :)
<\sh> Sp4rKy, phew...layer 9 problem then...just in front of the keyboard ,-)
<Sp4rKy> yep
<Sp4rKy> during upgrade of the rsync processes
<Sp4rKy> i forgot to add an exclusion over the dad directory
<Sp4rKy> so it has been deleted during the sync
<Sp4rKy> %s/whole/hole/g
 * Sp4rKy goes to sleep
<Sp4rKy> good night guys
<Sp4rKy> (and sorry for my stupidity)
 * somerville32 waves.
<Lutin> Sp4rKy: 'night :)
<Sp4rKy> 'night
<FisherGirl> hi bersace
<bersace> hi
<FisherGirl> how are you?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-20
<zul> evening
<StevenK> blueyed: The kbuild Build-Depends was because it doesn't build with anything less
<blueyed> Thanks, StevenK. I'll forward it to Debian.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<somerville32> Heya
<bddebian> :-)
<superm1> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi superm1
<superm1> feeling revuee?
<bddebian> Sure why not
<superm1> cool.
<superm1> ical2sqlite is what i sent up
<bddebian> superm1: OK, gotta update my hardy pbuilder quick
<superm1> okay, i'm gonna run an errand for a little bit anyhow.  i'll be back in ~20
<TheMuso> Yay for circuit breakers.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Er, yes. I've a friend who would have gotten a mains jump start if it weren't for the safety switch
<TheMuso> Well this has happened for the third time with the same power outlet.
 * TheMuso suspects bad wiring
<StevenK> Mmmm, that outlet could be dodgy
<TheMuso> Yeah. And it hasn't been touched in our work on the house either.
 * Hobbsee wishes people would'nt send her private email that is not in english.
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> spam
<cheguevara_> lol
 * ajmitch send Hobbsee an email in New Zealandish
<Hobbsee> I please do not understand ingles to translate it in Castilian
<Hobbsee> ...right then...
<Hobbsee> so, uh, you're replying to an email that i've sent....why not translate it yourself?
<StevenK> Because apparently they don't understand "ingles" (English)
<Hobbsee> there are online translators
<Hobbsee> which is how i got that translation
<slangasek> Hobbsee: you need to find a better online translator, if only for the humor value of getting "ingles" properly translated as "groins"
<Hobbsee> slangasek: hah :)
<Hobbsee> slangasek: that was babelfish
<slangasek> Hobbsee: http://www.mail-archive.com/debconf-team@lists.debconf.org/msg01112.html
<Hobbsee> slangasek: hah!  nice.
<ScottK> keescook: I've been watching for the clamav security update for Gutsy to appear and I haven't see it yet ...
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It has to all build, then be (manually, I think) pushed to LP, which will pick it up at the next */55. LP has been turned off for a while, so it might appear soon.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Thanks.
 * ScottK can't ask for the feisty-backport until it's at least published ...
<harrisony> If someone uploads a package to REVU, it has errors is there a procedure if a new person wants to upload an updated version (its been a month since the person uploaded the package and feedback was given)
<Hobbsee> harrisony: go ahead, probably, if it's been a month
<harrisony> Hobbsee: so just upload it?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<harrisony> you people dont need to do any ninja hacks
<Hobbsee> maybe emailing the person that they haven't done a new version in a while, and did get feedback on it
<Hobbsee> nope
<harrisony> Hobbsee: should i add like previously created by .. in the changelog or delete their entry or
<Hobbsee> based on the packaing of <user> would be a good idea
<harrisony> :)
<superm1> harrisony, well assuming of course that you *are* basing it on their packaging :)
<j1mc> hi superm1 - if a package name doesn't have "ubuntu" in the package name, does that mean it is no different than the debian package?
<superm1> hi j1mc, if its not in the version number then correct, there are no ubuntu changes to it
<harrisony> superm1: im pretty much downloading it, fixing the errors and reuploading
<superm1> the package source name should be the same as in debian however (and typically doesnt have ubuntu in it)
<j1mc> there is a piece of software that i was looking to update, tilda.  both debian unstable and ubuntu hardy archives show it as being at 0.09.4+cvs20071012-1, but the new version is 0.09.5.  i'm just getting started with this - would i still read up on merging?
<superm1> j1mc, so if the same version is in debian unstable,  but you want to get the newer version in hardy, then the first thing i'd do is check if debian is already working on it
<superm1> via a svn tree or anything like that
<superm1> that way you dont double up the work
<superm1> if you dont see any such thing, then you would then work on doing the new upstream version yourself
<superm1> and the new version number would be like this:
<superm1> 0.09.5-0ubuntu1
<j1mc> so check debian's svn tree for the package?
<superm1> yeah that's usually a good idea to start out
<j1mc> ok, if i don't see any activity there, would i read up on merges to start the 0ubuntu1 package?
<superm1> well usually not too much work is needed to handle a new upstream version like that
<superm1> i'd try to drop the debian directory in the new extracted upstream tarball
<superm1> and see if it can build
<superm1> if so, then its a very easy package and you just need to increment the changelog and submit it
<j1mc> ok... thanks.  i'll keep that in mind.
<j1mc> the guy who wrote tilda is in the chicago-lug, so . . . i figured it would be something good to start with.
<superm1> oh neat :)
<j1mc> this is where i'm looking to see if there's any activity on this package update in debian: http://packages.debian.org/sid/tilda
<j1mc> should i be looking somewhere else?
<j1mc> i've checked the bug reports, and developer information that is linked off of that page.
<nxvl> finaly i can dget LP packages!
<j1mc> naw, wait... i got it...  http://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=tilda
<keescook> ScottK: ppc still hadn't built yet -- I've pushed the rest, I can push ppc when it finishes later on
 * somerville32 now has 30 uploads.
<StevenK> keescook: So, how do we fix mk-sbuild-lv? :-)
<keescook> StevenK: hmmm... what's wrong?  I haven't used it recently...
<StevenK> keescook: This is going back to our discussion at AllHands, about using one LV for everything.
<keescook> StevenK: ah! right. context-shift complete.
<keescook> uhm
<keescook> well.... basically, schroot needs to be taught to use a subdirectory of a snapshot instead of the root directory
<keescook> then mk-sbuild-lv needs to be adjusted to grow a master lv instead of making a new one and drop in the right schroot conf
<keescook> so, mostly, trick schroot.
<StevenK> Ah
<slytherin> Hi all. I am trying to fix lucene2 FTBFS. The core classes compile with GCJ but there appears to be failure in unit tests. This cause the package not to build. Is unit tests failure a good enough reason not to build a package. If it is not then what is the way by which I can ignore failures?
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<slytherin> dholbach: hi. :-)
<dholbach> heya slytherin :)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong tab
<slytherin> dholbach: One question specifically for you. What is the next step for bug 177477? The Debian package maintainer has fixed it in debian as per my hints. Do we now sync that package and drop Ubuntu changes?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177477 in libglazedlists-java "Fix FTBFS by adding java-gcj-compat-dev as build dependency" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177477
<dholbach> slytherin: you need to find out if there are any ubuntu changes worth keeping, if not, we can sync it
<slytherin> dholbach: No. There was no specific changes in Ubuntu. So I guess once the fixed package is uploaded in Debian unstable I will have to log a bug for sync again, right?
<dholbach> slytherin: you can turn the bug into a sync bug then :)
<slytherin> dholbach: by adding tag? or just adding a comment?
<dholbach> changing the bug title and summary
<nixternal> hola
<slytherin> dholbach: Actually I was thinking to keep that bug to track other packages which can be fixed in similar way.
<dholbach> slytherin: usually we file a sync bug per package
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<slytherin> dholbach: No you didn't understand me. I meant keeping the bug summary to track packages which can be fixed by putting java-gcj-compat-dev in builde depends. I will just go on adding the debdiff for packages which can be fixed this way.
<persia> slytherin: If the package is failing unit tests, it usually means something went wrong in the build process, and should be properly fixed (rather than ignoring the tests).
<dholbach> slytherin: ahhhh ok
<slytherin> persia: I will have to check what is the reason of unit tests failure. Will get back in 2-3 hours. :-)
<persia> slytherin: You'll want a new bug for the sync then, to avoid spamming the archive-admins with all the debdiffs.
<warp10> Hi all!
<Fujitsu> Wooo, I think we have a very hungry Soyuz tonight.
<persia> Is it really true there are no current or pending builds?
<slangasek> it's true that we don't have them :)
<slangasek> it's just not /right/ that we don't have them. ;)
<Fujitsu> Right, Soyuz is rather hungry.
<Fujitsu> The build records aren't just some strange status - they're actually gone.
<persia> Ah.  That's actually better then.  If Soyuz managed to get ahead of the developers, it would be bad.  One part of Soyuz not feeding another is a different issue.
 * Fujitsu commented on this a while ago in #launchpad.
<Fujitsu> Hm, seems most of them are actually marked as being for superseded sources.
<dholbach> hey luisbg
<luisbg> hey dholbach
<geser> good morning
<mok0> good morning
<Romes> I'm not getting any help at the ubuntu channel... anybody in here bored that wants to deal with an utter noob?
<Romes> I think something about the philosophy of linux is confusing me
<Romes> I seem to have to install the most basic things to get something to work :S
<Romes> I'm getting an error... and I googled it, and I got a forum telling me to "install kernel sources"
<Romes> ... I don't even know what that means
<mok0> Romes: this is not a forum for that type of questions, but just for once.... what is the error you got?
<Romes> oh man... sorry... bah
<Romes> er... let me copy/paste
<Fujitsu> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Romes> oh, it's just a one-liner ;)
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Romes> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49002/
<Romes> sorry about that, turns out it was multiline afterall
<Romes> sorry again, I had to change it... left something out
<Romes> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49003/
<Romes> if it seems like I'm taking forever, it's because I have to type out the errors manually (no internet on my ubuntu comp)
<mok0> Romes: why are you running make?
<Romes> I'm getting a lot of "x is undeclared"
<Romes> the "INSTALL" file tells me to :P
<mok0> Romes: install what?
<Romes> ndiswrapper, sorry
<Romes> oh yeah, I forgot that I didn't give any background
<Romes> Um... my wireless card didn't work out of the box, so I tried to install ASUS linux drivers, but that install failed, so my friend (who's gone) told me to install ndiswrapper... which also isn't working... so I caved and came onto IRC :P
<mok0> Romes: you should install ndiswrapper via apt-get
<Romes> no internet :(
<mok0> Romes: put it on an USB stick
<Romes> I put the tar.gz file on a usb stick
<Romes> I'm feeling stupider by the second
<mok0> Romes: if you use the .deb you don't need to compile it; that can be tricky
<Romes> .deb? Ah, I'll look for that!
<mok0> Romes: what version is your system running?
<Romes> let me check... what's the command again? uname -a? or something?
<mok0> yeah
<Romes> 2.6.22-14
<pochu> lsb_release, too
<pochu> That should be Gutsy
<Romes> yup
<Romes> sorry, didn't know what you meant by version
<Romes> I'm migrating from Vista, so you can imagine that this is an entirely new world to me :P
<mok0> Romes: welcome to a great world
<Romes> lol... thanks mok0 :D
<Romes> I'll feel more "liberated" once I understand how this stuff works... hah
<Romes> anyways, back to looking for the .deb
<Romes> I'll update you :P
<mok0> Romes: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/misc/ndiswrapper-common
<Romes> thanks! I don't see a .deb download on that page, though. That's where I got the .tar.gz file
<mok0> Romes: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/net/ndisgtk
<Romes> alright, new question... I'm on a regular old intel... am I i386?
<mok0> Romes: yes
<Romes> awesome
<mok0> Romes: i386 for binary packages and "all" for the arch. independent packages
<Romes> ah, okay... is there an advantage to binary packages? are the independent ones the packages that you have to compile on your machine?
<Romes> makes sense if that's the case
<mok0> Romes: No, the all packages are common for all the archs
<Romes> Ah
<mok0> Romes: The source comes in "source" packages, which consist of 3 files: a .dsc, a .diff.gz and a .orig.tar.gz
<Romes> Ahhhhh
<mok0> Romes: but you shouldn't need to worry about source packages
<Romes> Stupid me, I didn't catch on to that.
<Romes> hmm, there's no readme in this file
<mok0> Romes: binary packages have been built from the source code
<mok0> Romes: Can't you get an internet connection somehow?
<Romes> So I just added an unnecessary step, essentially.
<Romes> My router is nowhere near me
<mok0> Romes: yes
<mok0> Romes: It makes things a million times easier... you can install ndiswrapper with one command
<Romes> hehe, I know, that's what my friend was telling me... it all depends on an internet connection, though :P
<mok0> Romes: ... and it will automatically pull in other packages that it depends on
<Romes> very nice
<Romes> so should I run the makefile?
<pochu> Romes: double click the .deb file.
<Romes> there... I might be blind... but I don't see it
<mok0> Romes: In the window manager
<Romes> there's a .desktop, .8, .glade, and a couple image files
<pochu> Romes: don't unpack it! :)
<Romes> bahaha
<mok0> Romes: I don't know ndiswrapper, but ndiswrapper-common is only one of the debs you need (pretty sure of that)
<Fujitsu> !ndiswrapper
<ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
<Romes> lol, man... okay
<mok0> Gotta go, se you later
<Romes> okay it's installing
<Romes> thank you so much mok0 :d
<Romes> :d
<Romes> thanks to others as well
<Romes> pochu ;)
<Romes> cheers
<slytherin> dholbach: One more FTBFS fixed in similar way. Added debdiff to same bug. :-)
<geser> slytherin: which bug is it?
<slytherin> geser: bug 177477.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177477 in libglazedlists-java "Fix FTBFS by adding java-gcj-compat-dev as build dependency" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177477
<slytherin> geser: Affects more than one packages. I am using it as tracker bug.
<TheMuso> Alright. Time to hit up the sponsors queue.
<TheMuso> dholbach: That was bloody quick.
<dholbach> TheMuso: you deserve it :)
<TheMuso> Perhaps, but i sent that email not 5 minutes ago. :)
<dholbach> maybe that's my new year's pledge: reply on MC mails a bit quicker :)
<TheMuso> lol
<totopalma> norsetto, hi :)
<norsetto> hi there totopalma
<mok0> norsetto: I think we never arrived at a conclusion wrt xtide. Are you prepared to sponsor it?
<norsetto> mok0: Its u-u-s subscribed? If so its just a matter of waiting until its your turn in the queue
<mok0> norsetto: yes, u-u-s is subscribed. I wasn't sure about the procedure. What does "subscribed" imply? I assumed it just meant that an email is sent somewhere...
<norsetto> mok0: when you suscribe it shows up in the u-u-s list of bugs
<mok0> norsetto: Ah, cool.
<mok0> norsetto: Is that something us mortals can look at??
<norsetto> mok0: you are about half way so it shouldn't take too long
 * TheMuso notes that he picks at random.
<norsetto> mok0: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<TheMuso> a lot of the time
<TheMuso> Or, https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<mok0> norsetto: So part of the job of a MOTU is to help processing this list?
<TheMuso> mok0: Yes.
<mok0> TheMuso: :-)
<norsetto> mok0: if you are nice with TheMuso he will look at it right away ....
<mok0> norsetto: I'm nice with everyone ;-)
<TheMuso> I've actually glanced over it, I'll make it my next one.
<mok0> TheMuso: Great. I'll remain online in case you have any questions
<TheMuso> mok0: Reviewing xtide.
<mok0> TheMuso: cool
<TheMuso> mok0: Also taking care of the xtide-data bug.
<mok0> TheMuso: yes, xtide-data needs to be fixed
<TheMuso> Yep, thats what I'm saying. I'll attend to that after I've done xtide.
<mok0> TheMuso: DD developer is responsive, so these mods will appear from upstream sooner or later
<TheMuso> Nice.
<LucidFox> Wow, packages.qa.debian.org has been redesigned
<TheMuso> mok0: Um, there is a newer version of xtide-data in debian.
<TheMuso> and ubuntu
<TheMuso> mok0: Mind rebasing against that?
<MenZa> ooh pretty, LucidFox
<mok0> TheMuso: NP
<mok0> mok0: My guess it that the debdiff still works ;-)
<TheMuso> no it doesn't.
<mok0> Ah ok
<TheMuso> Doesn't apply at least
<mok0> TheMuso: I was interrupted
<TheMuso> mok0: np
<zul> morning
<TheMuso> Hey zul.
<zul> hey TheMuso how goes it?
<TheMuso> zul: Well thanks. Yourself?
<zul> good just woke up
<mok0> TheMuso: What is the point of having Build-Depends-Indep: and Build-Depends: both mention debhelper??
<TheMuso> mok0: Sorry, I am unable to help. I'm not 100% thinking straight, and am about to turn in for the night.
<TheMuso> There are the debian policy docs.
<mok0> TheMuso: I'll just leave it there, then
<TheMuso> Sorry I can't be of further help at the moment.
<mok0> TheMuso: Do you want me to upload the new debdiff to LP, or do you want it via DCC?
<TheMuso> mok0: Upload to LP, I can't look at it now.
<TheMuso> and subscribe universe sponsors
 * persia thinks debhelper is Build-Depends, and not Build-Depends-Indep, and that arch:all policies are broken in subtle and unfixable ways.
<mok0> TheMuso: Thanks
<mok0> persia: But this package has both
<persia> mok0: And it shouldn't, but it doesn't break anything if it does.
<mok0> I
<mok0> I'll just leave it there, then
<slytherin> is revu down?
<persia> slytherin: works from here
<slytherin> persia: working with http://revu.tauware.de/ but not http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/
<persia> slytherin: The latter works from here
<Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org got a new face today =)
 * persia requests someone to please look at bug #133888 & upload the patch.  I just can't make a clean build for local reasons, and am becoming tempted to upload without the final build test.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<mruiz> hi all
<dfiloni> persia: yesterday I talk with DktrKranz. For he my package appears good but he want to test it whit some programs
<persia> dfiloni: OK.  As long as someone is working on it.  I don't like to see something sitting in the sponsors queue for 10 days, and shouldn't upload that without a local build test.\
<dfiloni> persia: I know... now I'm working at 2.8.7.1 version, it's very hard this version
<persia> dfiloni: What makes 2.8.7.1 harder than 2.8.6.1?
<dfiloni> persia: Editra editor
<dfiloni> persia: this is my latest lintian output: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2882/
<persia> Urk!  I wouldn't have expected that much given how clean you'd gotten 2.8.6.1.  Seems a little frustrating.  Thanks for wrestling with it.
<Kmos> persia: how much it takes to build on pbuilder ?
<persia> Kmos: how much what?  If you mean space: it's around 6-8GB.  If you mean time, at least a couple hours.
<mruiz> Kmos, it depends on the package
<Kmos> persia: space isn't a problem here..
<persia> Kmos: There's already a build log in the bug, so it doesn't need another: just some testing by someone who didn't artificially constrain their build environments.
<dfiloni> persia: why you changed the bug?
<persia> dfiloni: Bugs awaiting sponsorship shouldn't be assigned to non-sponsors.
<dfiloni> ok
<dfiloni> persia: the same think also in the atanks bug?
<slytherin> What does >> sign means when specifying version for a build dependency?
<persia> dfiloni: I haven't looked at the atanks bug recently, but if it's queued for the sponsors, and assigned to a non-sponsor, it won't get sponsored for a while.
<persia> slytherin: Really more than.
<slytherin> can a build fail if a universe package depends on multiverse package for build?
<persia> slytherin: Yes, but it likely won't, but it's a bug, so don't do that.
<slytherin> persia: I am not doing it. I was just checking docbook-xsl-saxon build logs. I see and entry 'libsaxon-java has no candidate'. libsaxon-java is in multiverse.
<persia> slytherin: In that case, the "universe cannot build-dep on multiverse" rule was working that day.  This is good.  One of the two likely needs to move.
<slytherin> persia: Just checked in debian. libsaxon-java is in main, build with GCJ so it can be moved to universe. :-)
<persia> slytherin: Excellent.  You've practice filing the "please move to universe" bugs, right?
 * persia cheers the new "Java in universe" effort
<slytherin> persia: I am trying to squash as many java related FTBFS as possible. And most of the times solutions have been simple except in case of batik. :-)
<persia> batik was the one that had all sorts of new build-deps, right?
<slytherin> persia: Not exactly. current version in Ubuntu uses loads of sun specific apis. the latest beta solves that problem to great extent but depends on another library. :-)
<persia> slytherin: Right.  I only remembered the bit about the extra library.
<slytherin> I have uploaded that library to revu and waiting for someone to hammer it. :-)
<persia> slytherin: Is it both source & binary lintian & linda clean?
<slytherin> persia: As far as I understand it, it is clean.
<persia> slytherin: OK.  You ran both checkers with all the options against the source and binary .changes files?  Neither had any output?
<slytherin> persia: Let me check once again.
<persia> slytherin: In case you don't remember all the switches for maximum verbosity, they are listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<slytherin> persia: Both clean
<persia> slytherin: In that case, you need to upgrade your lintian and linda.  The current versions don't agree on one point, so it would be impossible for them to be clean :)
 * persia agrees with lintian about the disagreement, but hasn't figured out the secret trick required prior to the linda update yet
<slytherin> persia: I am on gutsy. So that might be problem.
<LucidFox> persia> What "Java in universe" effort?
 * Hobbsee waves
<persia> slytherin: There are backports for both available in -backports.  You can download them directly from the pool (http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/) if you like.
<persia> LucidFox: slytherin's new "Java in universe" effort, to follow Debian's "Java in main".
<slytherin> Ok. I will. perhaps tomorrow. :-)
<persia> LucidFox: Essentially, a lot of the Java packages actually work with the latest free compilers & VMs, so don't need to be in multiverse anymore.  It requires manual investigation for each package, but when complete, they can be promoted.
<persia> Hi Hobbsee
<LucidFox> But icedtea isn't in Debian yet, is it?
<LucidFox> Or do they mean other tools?
<persia> LucidFox: A lot of them work even with gcj
<LucidFox> Ah.
<persia> blueyed: There's no need to close bugs twice in a changelog :)
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya
<blueyed> persia: IIRC this was just for reference (the second one)
<persia> blueyed: Hrm.  I'm not sure if it breaks anything to do that: maybe worth an experiment.  The upload was stalled for other reasons though :(
<blueyed> persia: which one is this?
<persia> blueyed: I forget already: I'll check my mail (but it should be in yours as well)
<blueyed> persia: cuetag? It's set to in progress by you.
<persia> blueyed: Ah.  Yes.  That was it.  Assigned to you for the last little change.
<blueyed> I see. Thanks.
<persia> somerville32: Please close the sponsoring request bugs with your candidates :)
<slytherin> LucidFox: The main problem is that it looks like package maintainers are underestimating GCJ and simply don't try building package with it. So you will find Sun's jdk as the first or only build dependency in many packages.
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: hahaha :D
<LucidFox> True.
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  ;)
<effie_jayx> I got scared when you said ... You're late...
<LucidFox> libhiglayout-java built with free-java-sdk, and when I pointed that out to the maintainer, he said he was unaware that free Java build tools even existed.
<slytherin> LOL
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: either that, or you were a lot early for hte next one :)
 * persia notes that the main merge push is over, and we should be looking at bugfixing & integration & features (which may also mean some merging)
<blueyed> persia: Fixed the diff. Should I assign u-u-s sponsors again, or will you do it?
<blueyed> s/assign/subscribe/
<slytherin> blueyed: Add subscription yourself.
<persia> blueyed: Better if you subscribe again.  I'm just hitting what would be my last queue request for the evening.  If I end up doing more later, I'm more likely to find it in the queue than in my bug subscriptions.
<blueyed> Makes sense. Done.
<gpocentek> persia: onless you already work on it I can take care of the xffm patch
<persia> gpocentek: That'd be great.  I wasn't going to chase it: more just trying to push rainct's maintainer mangling completion effort.
<gpocentek> I wonder if we should keep xffm in the archive to be honnest
<gpocentek> looks like debian got ride of it
<persia> gpocentek: Now I'm confused.  I can't see that Debian ever had xffm-icons
<gpocentek> persia: it was in sarge
<gpocentek> xffm4-icons
<gpocentek> persia: do you think we should really update the maintainer?
<gpocentek> I don't find this useful
<persia> gpocentek: Yes.  I firmly believe that we should not have any packages with ubuntu versions that don't have ubuntu Maintainers.
<gpocentek> ok
<persia> Further, in cases like this, it helps identify things that should be dropped from the archive.  If we just ignore the corner cases of things that haven't been updated in a while, we end up with lots of cruft.
<gpocentek> agreed
 * gpocentek wonders why devscripts should be a build-dep
<persia> gpocentek: Is xffm actually useful for Xubuntu these days?  If not, I think we ought drop both xffm-* and xffm4-* (and libxffm3 which seems to still be present as well)
<gpocentek> persia: they are not used in xubuntu
<persia> gpocentek: OK.  Do you want to keep them?
<gpocentek> no
<gpocentek> persia: I'll go through the list of packages and report bugs to remove them
<persia> gpocentek: Well, since you seem to be Maintainer for a few, I say it's your call :)
<gpocentek> I wonder if it the packages have been used since we get thunar in the archive
<persia> I'd think one bug would be better as they are all related.  Saves the archive-admins chasing all the bugs for various interdependencies.  Maybe multiple tasks.
<gpocentek> right
<dfiloni> persia: do you think I should fix image-file-in-usr-lib lintian warnings? I can override warnings or try to fix they. What I should do
<persia> dfiloni: I think images belong in /usr/share/ .  If you're talking about wxwidgets, please put them in the right place.  If you're asking about a different package, it's best to ignore the warning (not override) if the package comes from Debian, and fix it if the package is only in Ubuntu.
<dfiloni> persia: I'm talking about wxwidgets. Images are a parts of a theme, if I put them in the right place the package cannot working
<dfiloni> persia: I think I should link the icons
<persia> dfiloni: Can something else be adjusted to make it work, perhaps with a patch?  There's no reason for themes to be architecture-specific (as far as I know).
<dfiloni> persia: I don't know
<persia> dfiloni: Depending on your interest, I'd suggest either patching the source to make themes in /usr/share/ work, or leaving the lintian warning so someone else can see the bug.  In this case, an override would be bad, as it would hide the problem.  Also, since the package is already in the archive, it doesn't have to be lintian clean to upload (although that is nice).
<dfiloni> persia: I will try to patch the source, I want a clean package
<persia> dfiloni: Thanks.  If you get stuck on that, feel free to request upload of the rest, and keep working on that.  Since it won't change the library version, it is very unlikely to break rdepends, so it is safe to do later.  The upgrade should be done sooner to make sure it gets tested properly.
<dfiloni> persia: ok
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
 * persia wonders if MOTU SWAT wishes nominations for closed CVEs possibly exposed in previous releases to be approved to highlight the subscribed queue
<bddebian> Hi geser, persia
<persia> hey bddebian
<MenZa> persia, that sentence needed more acronyms
<bddebian> heh
<persia> MenZa: Why?  I actually prefer that to my far-too-common "DIFe is available from UUS, especially for FTBFS, UEHS, or NBS stuff", which is less comprehensible to the newcomer.
<MenZa> I was being serious. :(
<slytherin> persia: One question. You were handling gnusim8085 packaging in which you asked me to add watch file. I have added watch file. Is it ok if I assign the bug back to you now?
<dholbach> persia: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Abbreviations :)
<persia> slytherin: I'd recommend assigning nobody and subscribing the sponsors queue.  Take a look at my assigned bugs list if you don't believe me.  Among other things, I have now owned the most-duplicated bug in LP for 5 releases.
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  I'm not up much longer, but I'll add to that :)
<dholbach> persia: you ROCK
<slytherin> Ok. Actually previously it was assigned to nobody. But looks like since it was set 'In Progress' it was not considered by other sponsors. I will set it to confirmed.
<persia> slytherin: Thanks :)
 * slytherin agrees with dholbach :-D
 * persia has filed some needs-packaging bugs for audio-plugins if anyone is interested.  Early & frequent review available.
<pochu> persia, dfiloni: have you seen the yet again recent discussion about wx2.8 in debian-devel?
<dfiloni> pochu: yes
<persia> dholbach: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Abbreviations updated, with a special inclusion, just for you :)
<dholbach> persia: HAHAHA :-)
 * dholbach hugs persia
<persia> pochu: pointer?  Also, isn't it still blocking on the only-two-versions-of-a-library policy?
<RainCT> persia: some url for those needs-packaging?
<pochu> persia: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/12/msg00520.html, specially
<persia> RainCT: bugs #177672 #177673 #177678 #177679
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177672 in ubuntu "Please package wildmidi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177672
<pochu> persia: specially Daniel Baumann's plan:  * review and upload the package from Vadim in the next days.
<pochu>   * try to really get rid of wxwidget2.4.
<pochu>   * try to get rid of wxwidget2.6 if possible.
<pochu> Sounds like an ambitious plan ;-)
<persia> pochu: I trust Vadim regarding the package, but suggest coordination between Vadim & dfiloni, as there's lots of distro-specific tweaking dfiloni has don that vadim might not be familiar with, but which would be good for Debian as well as Ubuntu.
<persia> For really getting rid of wxwidget2.4, we're really, really close (except that jugglemaster annoyed me).
<pochu> dfiloni: wanna comaintain wx in Debian? ;-)
 * pochu hides :)
<persia> For getting rid of wxwidgets2.6, we're likely a year away: there's still a large number of FTBFS due to API shift, and it needs upstream pressure (a Debian migration to support 2.8 will help).
<dfiloni> persia: I think I can help debian because I don't know more about packaging, I'm learning
<persia> dfiloni: You can certainly help, but I'd agree you're just learning, so probably shouldn't be a maintainer by yourself.  pochu has a bit more experience, and together I think you'd do a good job.
<pochu> persia: lol, me?
<pochu> persia: well yes, I'm experienced with 'pbuilder-hardy build wx*dsc' ;-)
<persia> pochu: Why not?  You dare touch the package, you seem to have the right attitude as a package maintainer, and most of your work is pretty good.
<pochu> persia: wx scares me :-(
<pochu> And I prefer pure Gtk ;)
<persia> pochu: Scares everyone, but Vadim would be happy to help with that part :)
<pochu> Heh, right.
<pochu> Well actually there are a couple of wx developers, and a DD willing to take care of it. Of course, the more the better
<dfiloni> persia: sorry, I wanted to write I can'T
<dfiloni> persia: I think I can't help debian because I don't know more about packaging, I'm learning
<persia> dfiloni: I read it that way.  My answer still stands.
<dfiloni> persia: ok
 * RainCT decides he doesn't like audio packages :P
<persia> RainCT: :)  No worries.  Thanks for looking.
<Kmos> dholbach: i got the mail, thanks.. i need to reply to it accepting it or not ?
<dholbach> Kmos: the MC is going to vote, but if you have anything to say about it, please do
<Kmos> ok
<Kmos> dholbach: thanks
<dfiloni> persia: I found in wxPython/wx/tools/setup.py lines that contain pixmaps dir
<persia> dfiloni: Excellent :)
<dfiloni> *Editra/setup.py
<dfiloni> persia: can't debian use 2.8.6.1 that I've done?
<dfiloni> if will be approved
<jonnymind> hello
<pochu> hey jonnymind
<jonnymind> :-)
<jonnymind> pochu: have you checked my last upload?
<pochu> I don't think so, link?
<jonnymind> justsec
<jonnymind> bug 174470
<nxvl_work> which is the URL for bitsize bugs on LP?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174470
<nxvl_work> !bitsize
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about bitsize - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<imbrandon> !bitesize
<ubotu> A list of bugs that are considered easy to fix and good for beginners to attempt can be found at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<pochu> jonnymind: checking
<nxvl_work> oh i miss the "e"
<nxvl_work> :P
<jonnymind> pochu: thnx
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: thnx :D
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: oh btw - did you have an idea of when flashplugin-nonfree's fix would be available for released versions?
<pochu> jonnymind: no documentation for falcon other than the manpages?
<jonnymind> on the site
<jonnymind> about 180 pages function ref + manual
<jonnymind> a4
<jonnymind> Plus embedding guide, various tools help and so on
<jonnymind> However, I am refining it all. On 0.8.6, there will be even more.
<pochu> How much space do they take? Might be a good idea to make a -doc package
<jonnymind> excellent idea.
<jonnymind> they are relatively small pdf, smaller if rendered on html.
<pochu> jonnymind: you could ship the source in the tarballs, and build them as html at build time.
<jonnymind> ... source is odt.
<jonnymind> (gpl doc 1.2
<pochu> Ouch.
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: yes i'm working on a sru, i'll probably have it uploaded today
<pochu> GFDL, right?
<jonnymind> yes
<tonyyarusso> imbrandon: cool
<pochu> jonnymind: hehe, this is funny: W: falcon-dev: unusual-interpreter ./usr/bin/falconeer.fal #!/usr/bin/falcon
<jonnymind> :-) hai!
<pochu>       (C) 2007-2012 Giancarlo Niccolai
<pochu> jonnymind: 2012?
<jonnymind> oh well, I really DIDN'T know WHAT to put there.
<jonnymind> I don't even get the meaning of copyright on a free software...
<pochu> well put $beginning_of_your_work - $current_year
<jonnymind> Oh, that's a great idea.
<pochu> jonnymind: If you are not putting it in the Public Domain, then it needs to have a copyright holder, afaik.
<jonnymind> consider it done.
<pochu> IANAL though, so don't listen to me ;)
<jonnymind> I see. IMHO, authorship right should be more important, and last 75 years. But americans are so fond in copyright...
<pochu> jonnymind: the copyright file needs a bit of work. Would you mind using the dh_make template?
<jonnymind> pochu: yes
<jonnymind> I mean, yes, I do mind.
<pochu> And it needs to say exactly what files are under GFDL (e.g. docs/*)
<pochu> jonnymind: may I ask why? :)
<jonnymind> The package build process is automatized and is upstreamed in our build system,
<jonnymind> which is a multiplatform build system made of several scripts.
<pochu> jonnymind: heh, I mean debian/copyright :-)
<jonnymind> I tried to use auto things from debian, but it just didn't stand.
<imbrandon> your package modifies debian/copyright on every build? nasty
<jonnymind> pochu: there's no gfdl in that package (atm)
<jonnymind> yes
<jonnymind> Of course it does: the VERSION changes at every build.
<imbrandon> VERSION in debian/copyright ?
<jonnymind> possibly yes.
<jonnymind> Falcon 0.8.5, Falcon 0.8.6 ... Falcon 1.0...
<imbrandon> very nasty way to do things imho, glad i'm not sponsoring it
<pochu> jonnymind: you *can't* change anything in debian/ automatically
<pochu> at least AFAIK
<jonnymind> imbradon: honestly, I don't see why.
<imbrandon> pochu: right its against policy iirc
<jonnymind> pochu: again, I don't see why.
<jonnymind> ... Ok, point out the policy line.
<pochu> jonnymind: and I don't see 0.8.5 there
<imbrandon> jonnymind: because policy states anything automaticly generated needs to be checked by hand before completion
<imbrandon> jonnymind: sure one sec
<jonnymind> pochu: it MIGHT be there.
<pochu> emilio@pochu:~/tmp/tmp/falcon-0.8.5/debian$ grep '0.8.5' copyright
<pochu> emilio@pochu:~/tmp/tmp/falcon-0.8.5/debian$
<jonnymind> imbradon: Oh, I do.
<jonnymind> and everyone in charge will.
<imbrandon> if your build system does it you cant
<jonnymind> Of course we can:
<imbrandon> not if it does it automagicly on every build
<jonnymind> Ah,... no.
<pochu> Still. Changing anything in your upstream tarball is alright. Changing it in debian/ isn't, IMHO.
<jonnymind> Sorry, I meant every RELEASE.
<jonnymind> I have script to set up things when the release is ready.
<jonnymind> And they setup a skeleton that is then checked by hand.
<jonnymind> they prepare the ground for the releases.
<imbrandon> you repackage on every release?
<imbrandon> nasty
<jonnymind> Well. I see no other way to change the things in a package than repackaging.
<imbrandon> modify the existing package on new releases is the way
<pochu> jonnymind: we are talking about debian/copyright here, not copyright
<pochu> (just in case :)
<jonnymind> pochu: oic.
<jonnymind> pochu: in this case, I don't mind what it goes there as long as it is compliant.
<pochu> jonnymind: you are completely free to do whatever you want with copyright!
<pochu> :-)
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> this all pertains to debian/*
<jonnymind> AHHH, now I get it.
<pochu> Sorry for the confusion :-)
<jonnymind> Well, there is nothing automated in that case.
<jonnymind> I had a script to put the version on binary packages, but I removed it because source packages determines it automagically
<jonnymind> the things in the /debian dir are full static.
<imbrandon> hrm i thought falcon was on 2.0beta3 anyhow, was last time i looked
<jonnymind> 1.0beta3.
<jonnymind> I changed numbering to be compliant with different distros.
<jonnymind> I.e. redhat is a mess with "beta" in names.
<jonnymind> And I won't descend into magic of win version numbering.
<pochu> jonnymind: in debian/copyright, you need to list the license of all the files. So just saying that everything is released under the Falcon license but the files under docs/ are under the DFDL is fine.
<imbrandon> jonnymind: nope 2.0.0~beta3 http://falcon.kaarsemaker.net/
<imbrandon> just checked
<jonnymind> pochu: ok
<jonnymind> imbradon: not mine.
<jonnymind> http://www.falconpl.org
<imbrandon> ahh looks like a namspace conflict, have you got with the other falcon maintainers to resolve this ?
<pochu> jonnymind: so you need to explictly say what files are licensed under GFDL, and put something like this:
<pochu> On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU General
<pochu> Public License can be found in `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL'.
<pochu> s/GPL/GFDL-1.2/
<pochu> and s/General Public/Free Documentation/
<imbrandon> pochu: s/GPL/GPL-2 now because it defaults to 3 now
<pochu> imbrandon: well it's not GPLed, but GFDLed (the documentation) ;)
<imbrandon> :)
<jonnymind> imbradon: I proposed (many times) falconpl.
<jonnymind> but Everyone here said: it's fine this way...
<jonnymind> I am *willing* to change the name into falconpl, if just needed
<imbrandon> i dont care either way, the correct thing to do would be get with the other falcon software makers and come up with a solution
<nxvl_work> where can i get information about how the menu entries are placed?
<jonnymind> pochu: I will fix license/copyright things asap.
<jonnymind> imbradon: I didn't even know about that software. we'll discuss the topic.
<imbrandon> kk, sure thats all i was pointing out :)
<jonnymind> (although, there should be nothing to discuss if I just change the name of the package in falconpl.
<jonnymind> Which is ok to me, for various reasons.
<imbrandon> well you would both still produce a "falcon" binary though
<imbrandon> i'm sure
<jonnymind> that would be a problem.
<imbrandon> right
<jonnymind> what is that other falcon thing?
<JanC> a .deb repository "builder"
<imbrandon> its a apt repository maintainer
<jonnymind> imbradon: no we can't.
<pochu> jonnymind: the shlibs looks wrong to me. You currently have $library_name SONAME, but it should be $library_name SONAME binary_package_name
<jonnymind> from their site: Falcon plugins, like falcon itself, are written in python.
<pochu> jonnymind: i.e. you need to add libfalcon-engine1
<imbrandon> jonnymind: what does that matter ?
<jonnymind> they won't produce a binary.
<imbrandon> jonnymind: ok a "falcon" command
<jonnymind> however, I'll check with them,
<imbrandon> same diffrence in this case
<imbrandon> ok i got to run
<jonnymind> pochu: I don't get it.
<jonnymind> May you please specify the line to the comments in the bug?
<jonnymind> Got to go: dinner. Bll.
<jonnymind> Thanks everyone.
<mruiz> hi all
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<mruiz> Time ago I had an account on REVU, but it disappeared. How can I get a new one?
<pochu> mruiz: are you subscribed to ubuntu-universe-contributors in LP?
<pochu> And do you have a gpg key in your lp account?
<mruiz> pochu, yes
<mruiz> All accounts from the old REVU instance have been removed, all MOTU accounts should have been recreate ... from REVU page
<Supremus> norsetto, hi !! :D
<norsetto> Hi supremus
<Supremus> norsetto, How are you?
<norsetto> Supremus: quite well, you too I hope
<totopalma> norsetto, hi :)
<Supremus> yes :D
<dfiloni> Hi norsetto :)
<mruiz> pochu, thanks for your help... I recreated my account :-)
<norsetto> Hola dfiloni
<norsetto> superm1: I was wondering about the kernel modules in your ppa .... do you have a ralink wireless yourself?
<superm1> norsetto, no i dont
<superm1> i didnt realize i had ralink support on any of my packages though?
<superm1> i have an updated linux-ubuntu-modules, but the fix should be in -proposed right now too afaik
<norsetto> superm1: sure, you have the legacy drivers in the modules one
<superm1> ah.  well nothing has been changed in that
<norsetto> superm1: ah ok! I was hoping they were finally getting rid of the rt2x00 crap and install the legacy ones
<superm1> norsetto, not all too sure on that :)
<Adri2000> TheMuso: regarding bug #176837, I thought the process was to assign to the contributor when there are things to fix?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176837 in audacious-plugins "Please merge audacious-plugins 1.4.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176837
<TheMuso> Adri2000: not as far as I know. I haven't read the policy for a while, but I don't try and rigidly stick to it.
<jonnymind> back
<Adri2000> " If the patch needs work
<Adri2000>     *
<Adri2000>       Set the Status to "Incomplete"
<Adri2000>     *
<Adri2000>       Assign the patch submitter
<Adri2000> "
<TheMuso> Ah well.
<Adri2000> but then I guess it's the contributor who should unassign himself when he provides a new debdiff
<TheMuso> As I said, I don't like ridigly sticking to policy
<TheMuso> As long as I'm aware of the guidelines, thats fine for me.
<gilir> hi
<mruiz> hi all, I uploaded a package to revu and I need a review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=adtool, thanks!
<gilir> is there someone nice and available to review awn-extras-applet on REVU ? :)
<rzr> hi there
<rzr> any cannonical guys arround ? I've been contacted for a job
<imbrandon> rzr: probably best to contact them back the same way they contacted you
<rzr> that's what i've just done
<imbrandon> :)
<rzr> i wanted to have take the temperature from inside :)
<imbrandon> there are a few Canonical employes arround and more in #ubuntu-devel and #launchpad and a few other places :)
<pochu> rzr: may I ask you which position? :)
<rzr> like #debian-*
<rzr> sure
<rzr> something like ...blanblah... LinuxOS
<slangasek> rzr: the temperature in this part of Canonical is about 58Â°F according to the thermostat
<imbrandon> slangasek: :)
<rzr> too cold anyway ...
<rzr> let's work from crimosoft instead ;)
<slangasek> they're farther north, it's 54Â° there
<rzr> metric system please :)
<Ubulette> http://intlstore.mozilla.org/images/MZ9011E.jpg   lol
<pochu> Ubulette: :-)
<Flare183> What are all the section?
<Flare183> I need a list
<Flare183> please
<geser> Flare183: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<Flare183> thanks
<kane77> hi, what needs to be done to get package into next ubuntu release? (t
<kane77> (I'd like to have groovy package included in hardy)
<pochu> It's already there, but DEPWAITing
<pochu>     groovy | 0.1.0beta10-3 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/multiverse Sources
<pochu> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/groovy/
<somerville32> What is groovy do?
<Ubulette> why isn't packages.u.c working with hardy ? it's been broken for several week now
<cyberix> How do you fix "Binary contains unneeded section comment." or "Binary is not stripped."?
<zorglu_> q. is there something like .pdi (pcbsd installer) but on linux ?
<kane77> somerville32, it's a scripting language with javaish syntax
<geser> Ubulette: how is p.u.c broken?
<Ubulette> geser, in "Search the contents of packages", hardy is no longer listed
<Ubulette> geser, and in pkg descriptions, "files" now says "no current information available"
<Ubulette> like in http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libs/gstreamer0.10-plugins-base
<geser> ah, that one. The Contents.gz files aren't generated for hardy yet
<Ubulette> they were, up to a few weeks ago
<geser> Generating them is time-consuming and they're outdated really fast now
<Ubulette> but it's difficult to track moving files without that
<geser> my guess it that they will generated in the future again, when hardy has less changes
<geser> yes, unfortunately
<Ubulette> geser, should be pretty easy to make on the fly using one of the dh_ script so it updates only what needs to be updated
<geser> Ubulette: I don't know how exactly those Content files are generated
<geser> Ubulette: adding should be easy: add the dpkg-deb -c output to that file but what about removals of old data?
<Ubulette> just add the package name as a key, then remove everything for that key 1st
<geser> Ubulette: ask in #ubuntu-devel or #launchpad about the Contents files. I don't know where the right place is.
<Ubulette> geser, well, i don't have much to add. I miss the feature and i think it could be light just by doing the task on the fly, that's about it.
<geser> Ubulette: I guess if it was that easy, it would probably be done
<Ubulette> maybe not with the current design, no idea of what it looks like now
<geser> me neither
<norsetto> ubulette: whats wrong with apt-file?
<geser> norsetto: it needs also the same Content files which aren't there yet
<cyberix> My last package, being a sourceless binary application, raised lots of discussion. So this time I packaged public domain software!
<cyberix> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
<cyberix> Be the first one to review it.
<cyberix> Here on R-E-V-U
<norsetto> geser: does it? mine seems to work pretty happily (but then perhaps its not looking at hardy)
<geser> norsetto: gutsy has Content files therefore it works on packages.u.c but hardy has no Content files
<Ubulette> yep, apt-files uses sources.list to see where to fetch the indices so in my case, it tries and fails on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/Contents-i386.gz
<norsetto> oh well ... time for bed
<norsetto> g'night all
<cyberix> When is the next revu day going to be?
<pochu> cyberix: It's every Monday afaik
<pochu> So next Monday ;)
<cyberix> oh
<pochu> Although it'll be December 24th, so there might be few activity here ;)
<cyberix> :-(
<cyberix> What a pity there is no reverse D
<pfein> is there a quick guide/howto on building a .deb?  I need to version bump an existing ubuntu package...
<TheMuso> !packagingguide | pfein
<ubotu> pfein: packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<TheMuso> pfein: That should have the info you need.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-21
<harrisony> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ttf-liberation someone mind checking that out :D
<awen_> hi all
<harrisony> hi awen_
<azeem> harrisony: are you sure the licensing is fine for universe?
<awen_> i'm on my first packaging attempt, and have a few questions in that respect, i'm looking at bug 177051
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177051 in ldapscripts "scripts dont accept gnu long options ( eg --help)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177051
<awen_> wouldn't it be best to keep this a debian package, and then have it uploaded to debian... (working on the unstable version right now)
<harrisony> azeem: according to the lp bug no one really said, no dont package this
<azeem> which lp bug?
<awen_> azeem: bug 177051
<harrisony> bug 113889
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177051 in ldapscripts "scripts dont accept gnu long options ( eg --help)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177051
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113889 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Ubuntu needs the Liberation Fonts" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/113889
<azeem> harrisony: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/113889/comments/2
<harrisony> azeem: i saw that but if you look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/113889/comments/5
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 113889 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Ubuntu needs the Liberation Fonts" [Wishlist,In progress]
<harrisony> he makes a good point
<azeem> harrisony: are the larabie fonts in universe?
<harrisony> mutiverse im pretty sure
<azeem> so what is ttf-liberation targetting?
<harrisony> azeem: well i thought it could get into universe but
<azeem> (I'm not saying they should get rejected, I'm just saying that maybe nobody with the proper legal authority in Ubuntu has looked at the license)
<azeem> dholbach commented on the bug, but not on the licensing
<harrisony> Yea
<harrisony> should i set it as multiverse and change it if someone tells otherwise
<azeem> well, having them in multiverse won't help much
<azeem> I'd rather think they'd be a candidate for main if they were free
<azeem> so maybe bring this up in #ubuntu-devel, or whereever licenses get evaluated in Ubuntu (I've no idea)
<joejaxx> hey azeem :)
<joejaxx> when did you join here? :D
<azeem> dunno, in 2005?
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> i just do not remember seeing your nick that is all :)
<azeem> -- Log opened Tue Apr 05 01:33:39 2005
<azeem> 01:33 -!- azeem [~mbanck@ppp-82-135-65-251.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu
<joejaxx> :D
<Ubulette> what is holding bug 176511 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176511 in boost "libboost-regex-dev depends on libicu36-dev" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176511
<xopher> Hey, has anyone tried including the 169.x nvidia driver into linux-restricted-modules? Im having problems building it with pbuilder.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/2897/
<cheguevara_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2007-December/003549.html
<cheguevara_> according to this the new nvidia drivers are included
<xopher> ah, nice, thank you
<DarkMageZ> xopher, the 169.x nvidia driver is included in hardy (8.04)
<xopher> DarkMageZ, accoriding to this they're not? http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/misc/nvidia-glx-new
<Nafallo|THM> Fujitsu: ?
<imbrandon> TheMuso: busy ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: So!
<StevenK> imbrandon: How can I get apt-mirror to do my bidding? :-)
<imbrandon> StevenK: more than the obvious or ...
<TheMuso> imbrandon: not really
<imbrandon> TheMuso: wanna walk me through the cdimage stuff here in a while ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon: sure.
<tonyyarusso> StevenK: By reading the comments?  :P  That's one of the few tools I actually understood when I tried it.
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'd like i386 and amd64 to get put somewhere, and lpia put somewhere else
<imbrandon> StevenK: just apt-get install it , and edit /etc/apt/mirror.list super simple
<imbrandon> sure, the easy way to do that would be to grab it from two giffrnt hosts
<imbrandon> diffrent*
<StevenK> Doing so already
<imbrandon> then bindmount/symlink
<imbrandon> the results where you want
<StevenK> No, that's harder, since the top level Release files may differ
<imbrandon> huh ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'm pulling i386 and amd64 from a mirror in .au
<StevenK> imbrandon: lpia is getting pulled off ports.ubuntu.com directly
<StevenK> imbrandon: Since there is mirror lag for the .au mirror, the Release files are different between the two, hence why I want them seperated
<Nafallo|THM> this is so kewl :-)
<imbrandon> ok it should place them in /var/spool/apt-mirror/mirror/ports.ubuntu.com and /var/spool/apt-mirror/mirror/somewhere.au
<imbrandon> should be simple to seperate
<Nafallo|THM> eeeXubuntu on 94% installed ;-)
<StevenK> I see
<imbrandon> it keeps the diffrent hosts seperate already
<imbrandon> i do the same thing, i get i386 and amd64 from us.archive and ppc from ports
<StevenK> I was expecting it to dump stuff directly into /
<harrisony> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ttf-liberation :) anyone willing to donate a few minutes on looking at that
<StevenK> Well, mirror_path
<imbrandon> nah, then i symlink /var/www/ubuntu to /var/spool/apt-mirror/mirror/ua.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Ukraine?
<imbrandon> and symlink /var/www/ubuntu-ports to /var/spool/apt-mirror/mirror/ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports
<imbrandon> s/ua/us
<StevenK> Mmmmm. This is going to require some thought.
 * TheMuso notes that ppc is still available on main archive mirror
<TheMuso> so au.archive, us.archive, etc.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: for hardy ?
<imbrandon> i dident see it
<TheMuso> imbrandon: yup
<StevenK> imbrandon: So can I seed apt-mirror somehow?
<imbrandon> StevenK: how do you mean >?
<imbrandon> like from a prior rsync ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: I have the >70Gb of .debs I downloaded with debmirror -- it looks like apt-mirror uses a different directory structure, and I don't want to re-download that 70Gb again
<imbrandon> ahhh umm not really sure, hrm
<imbrandon> if you put it in apt-mirror format yea
<imbrandon> but ...
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> is the pool the same ?
<StevenK> It ought to be
<TheMuso> StevenK: I know what you mean re downloading. It took me serveral nights to mirror i386, powerpc, and source.
<imbrandon> really if you mv'd the ubuntu/ from debmirror to /var/spool/apt-mirror/mirror/somehost.au and ran apt-mirror
<imbrandon> to see
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Yeah, us.archive for example has i386, amd64, powerpc, and sparc.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: nice, dident realize that
<TheMuso> I'd doubt that will ever change, or at least, not while dapper is supported on ppc.
<imbrandon> StevenK: note you will need to use the hardy apt-mirror or the one from sf.net for lpia to work
<StevenK> imbrandon: Why?
<imbrandon> its only a single perl script and works fine on gutsy
<StevenK> imbrandon: The script understands deb-lpia from when I was reading the source last night
<imbrandon> StevenK: because it dident know aobut deb-lpia before 0.4.5
<imbrandon> hrm i might have patched it in then
<imbrandon> and misrembering when i did it
<imbrandon> i dident think i did it for gutsy though
<imbrandon> i should probably request a -backport for it anyhow :)
<imbrandon> i tell yall i finaly got added to the upstream team ? heh
<imbrandon> i made the 0.4.5 release all by my lonesom heh
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> Next stop, debian-installer/installer-arch/i18n/dist-upgrader-all/indices support. :)
<imbrandon> yup i actualy have plem support for that in svn
<imbrandon> but its broken kinda
<imbrandon> nother day or two it will be ready for testing
<imbrandon> just so i can roll cd images from it
<imbrandon> heh
<TheMuso> haha.
<TheMuso> I'm happy to help with testing.
<imbrandon> kk
 * TheMuso currently uses debmirror + a script to fetch everyting else.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: about time!
<TheMuso> Does it support rsync?
<imbrandon> thats what i'm adding
<Fujitsu> Does debmirror work on hardy at the moment, with the md5sum mismatches?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Yeah I saw that. Thanks for your support, same with you StevenK. Thank you both.
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> you deserve it
<StevenK> TheMuso: The bill is in the mai... Oh, what Hobbsee said.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<TheMuso> lol
<imbrandon> what did you get?
<imbrandon> heh
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I'm applying for core dev.
<imbrandon> ahh rockin, bout time
<imbrandon> TheMuso: mind sharing your script that grabs "everything" else , i'll probably use it as a defualt config
<imbrandon> in the mirror.list
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Ok, could likely do with some big cleanups, and its rather hacky, but works.
<imbrandon> hehe ok
<StevenK> I'm not sharing my debmirror script
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> I want to print it out in a 48 point size font so I can burn it
<TheMuso> StevenK: Mine is kinda like that also.
<imbrandon> StevenK: btw since your a perl guru patches welcome if you wanna make apt-mirror do soemthing else / better
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: I DCCd it, or would you prefer another way?
<imbrandon> hrm yea because i run irssi+screen on another host
<imbrandon> email/pastebin ?
<TheMuso> oh ok.
<TheMuso> Let me upload somewhere then.
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> thanks
<tonyyarusso> Would it be remotely feasible to make a super-stripped down version of the Live CD that could fit on those 210 MB "pocket" CDs?
<Fujitsu> Chopping off OOo will save you quite a bit, but you'll need to find a lot more.
<persia> tonyyarusso: Yes, if you are sufficiently ruthless about what to cut.  You might lose the GUI.
<imbrandon> tonyyarusso: you could proably do it with debian-live or fluxbuntu stripped
<tonyyarusso> hmm
 * tonyyarusso happens to have a stack of them; wondering if it's worth it
<TheMuso> imbrandon: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/mirror
 * StevenK prepares to poke fun
<imbrandon> TheMuso: killer , thanks
<TheMuso> imbrandon: np
<TheMuso> StevenK: Feel free. Its hacky, and likely could have things done better.
 * Hobbsee heckles TheMuso, without having even looked
<TheMuso> bbiaf
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Is that to get around the various pockets not having debian-installer bits?
<StevenK> I worked around that by running debmirror three different times
<Fujitsu> StevenK: How do you combine them?
<awen_> does anyone know how the automatic package-inclusion from debian works? ... if I forward a patch to debian and it gets included in unstable will it then automatically be included in hardy (it is a genuine debian package that we have in the repositories)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: By using a scary amount of --ignore
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<imbrandon> awen_: depends on the point of the cycle it is on how long it will take, but eventualy yes
<StevenK> My current script is a shade over 100 lines. The new script that uses apt-mirror and apt-mirror's config file are just under 50
<imbrandon> hehe
<TheMuso> back
<imbrandon> TheMuso: that was fast :)
<harrisony> awen_: a sync?
<StevenK> Grumble. imbrandon is right.
<imbrandon> ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Then backport a newer apt-mirror to dapper
<StevenK> :-)
<StevenK> steven@infected:~$ grep -c lpia /usr/bin/apt-mirror
<awen_> harrisony: a sync, yes, thats what we call it... will it the happen on a regualr basis?
<StevenK> 0
<imbrandon> ahh , ok
<TheMuso> StevenK: I shudder to think the amount of ignores you have.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I just found it easier to sync to another dir, and copy over.
<harrisony> awen_: no, not now, only if you make a request
<StevenK> TheMuso: Like I said, a scary amount.
<imbrandon> StevenK: you should be able to cp just the one perl script over from hardy untill then, no newer deps etc
<TheMuso> Note, the dist-upgrader, and i18n stuff is not yet tested.
<TheMuso> in my script.
<imbrandon> but i'll file for a backport now
<TheMuso> I only wrote that this morning.
<StevenK> imbrandon: /usr/bin isn't mine to touch
<StevenK> :-P
<awen_> harrisony: how to do that?
<imbrandon> StevenK: ahh
<TheMuso> And, my script pulls in indices for bits that I don't mirror, but I cbf doing it better at this point.
<imbrandon> can you install pkgs ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: I mean that in a pedantic way, I have root
<harrisony> awen_: let me just get a link
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> StevenK: give me one sec
<StevenK> The machine is sitting 2 metres behind me, I better have root
<imbrandon> heh
<harrisony> awen_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess if it doesnt have changes (from the ubuntu version) but if it does you need a merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<harrisony> awen_: what package is it
 * persia notes that sometimes a sync is acceptable when there are Ubuntu changes, but those changes are no longer either useful or required.
<awen_> harrisony: ldapscripts
<awen_> harrisony: and thank you... patch hasn't been accepted in debian yet, but just trying to be ahead of things now
<harrisony> awen_: you know that it will get into hardy and if you want it in gutsy it will need a backport
<TheMuso> imbrandon: SO what use is the my script?
<harrisony> awen_: :) read up on syncs, that what you will need for ldapscripts
<imbrandon> TheMuso: yup yup
<TheMuso> imbrandon: But what did you want to know from it
<imbrandon> ahh the list of what to grab
<TheMuso> ah ok
<awen_> harrisony: the patch is easily done to the current version in gutsy also... do you recommend making that patch for debian also and requesting a sync?
<imbrandon> basicly your rsync list
<TheMuso> Speaking of my script, does anybody have a more efficient way I could do the md5sum calculation? Perhaps making a diff, and comparing to previous md5sum file or some such, and only calculating newly added files?
<TheMuso> I was going to take that kinda of approach, but thought there may be a better way.
<harrisony> awen_: as long as the patch gets into debian, it can be synced into hardy and a backport (or maybe a SRU dont know) can be made for gutsy
<persia> harrisony: awen_: If the patch is good, and works, it can also be submitted for direct inclusion to hardy in a new candidate, if someone wants to generate the new candidate revision.
<imbrandon> StevenK: backport filed, when the archive team gets to it
<imbrandon> not sure is Hobbsee has those uber powas
<StevenK> I don't think so
<imbrandon> StevenK: i have it building in my ppa for dapper if you want it tonight
<StevenK> I can grab it from there, sounds good
<imbrandon> k
<awen_> persia: would that be a good idea for having it included in gutsy?
 * Hobbsee doesn't
<awen_> persia: first attempt at solving a bug, patching and getting it included, so sorry for all the "stupid" questions
<persia> awen_: Before something is included in gutsy, it needs to be in hardy.  the basic process is that one gets it into hardy, evaluates it against the SRU guidelines, and either applies for an SRU or requests a backport to get it in a previous release.  If you wait for Debian review, and then a sync to get it into hardy, this takes longer: it depends on how important the change is.
<persia> awen_: No question is stupid :)  Anyway, unless it's really breaking things, better to just fix in hardy.  You might also want to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<nenolod> hi. has transmission been bumped to 0.9.6 yet? 0.9.5 has an ugly data corruption bug.
<awen_> persia: not that important, just needed a starting point to get started packaging :-)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: it apperas not
 * Hobbsee wonders if debian reverted, or how we got that debian-named version
<StevenK> Because it autosynced
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and the lower debian versions...?
<Hobbsee> oh wait, 0.96 is in debian now
<Hobbsee> i can't read
 * StevenK chuckles
<Hobbsee> nenolod: want me to request a sync?
 * Hobbsee should find her glasses
<awen_> persia: but thank you... have been looking through a lot of the motu-stuff tonight already
<nenolod> Hobbsee, yes please :D
<Hobbsee> nenolod: done
<nenolod> i wanted to use transmission, but i found that 0.9.5 was banned from the tracker i was going to use ;)
<Hobbsee> nenolod: please close all the bugs from the old version which are not in the new
<nenolod> Hobbsee, will do.
 * TheMuso points Hobbsee in the direction of orca + espeak.
<TheMuso> SInce she now uses GNOME.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: what about them?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: You should use them, if you don't want to find your glasses.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
 * persia notes that there is a transmission sync bug somewhere, that should be updated or used for the sync.
 * Hobbsee just filed another, so...
<TheMuso> Yay.
 * TheMuso has finished building an i386 livefs from his local mirror.
<Hobbsee> mine trumps it
<zul> hey Hobbsee
 * persia points jdong and ember at Hobbsee about transmission
<Hobbsee> hiya zul!
 * Hobbsee roasts them on her bbq, and eats them
<awen_> night everyone
<zul> can you get epeak to do swear words?
<zul> er espeak...
<zul> because that would be fun
<TheMuso> Yes you can.
<TheMuso> But I dare not, as there are little children in the room where I am currently.
<TheMuso> But yes, you can make it say whatever you want.
<zul> heh...
<harrisony> orca is yelling out everything and its funny
<StevenK> We used to play these games at the office...
<StevenK> ssh into bart's machine, and feed stuff into his speaker process
<TheMuso> StevenK: Lol.
<harrisony> at school we get microsoft sam to talk to each other
<Hobbsee> StevenK: haha, nice
<zul> StevenK: when I was running one of the linux labs i would ssh into poeple's machines and eject their cd-roms and repeat ad-nauseaum
<TheMuso> harrisony: I actually have a piece of speech synthesis hardware that I can make sing.
<StevenK> It was amusing feeding spam subjects in over and over while he was reading e-mail
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<harrisony> TheMuso: :O!!!! HAHAH thats so neat
 * jdong sees poke
<jdong> Hobbsee: do I need to ask for transmission sync from debian?
<Hobbsee> jdong: no.  already done it
<jdong> Hobbsee: ah, ok, excellent. So I can go back to refreshing the grade report page obsessively?
<bddebian> persia: Did you say you already knew what the wx2.4 issues with ctsim were?
<Hobbsee> jdong: if you feel the ened to...
<jdong> Hobbsee: how *else* would I know my exam scores the millisecond they come out? :D
<TheMuso> I have two forms of it actually. I have one that can connect via the serial port, and the other is in the form of an ISA card.
<Hobbsee> jdong: this is true
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: *ISA*?
<nenolod> transmission 0.96.dfsg-1 seems to build without any modification on ubuntu btw.
<nenolod> hmm.
<nenolod> transmission package is kind of crap
<nenolod> it should depend on system libevent instead of included one.
 * nenolod makes a debdiff.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yes.
<nenolod> yuck.
<nenolod> transmission hardcodes things so that it uses internal libevent.
<zul> right im going to bed
<TheMuso> night zul
<nenolod> wow. why doesn't libevent include a pkg-config control file?
<nenolod> :/
<Pici> Quick question.  Got a user in #ubuntu looking for a list of unmaintained packages like http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned
<Pici> Do we have unmaintained packages? I was under the impression that we didnt, but I'm not really up to spec with my motu knowledge.
<bddebian> We don't have the concept of unmaintained.  We have no maintainers :)
<bddebian> MOTUS "maintain" the entire Universe repo
<Pici> Okay, good answer... /me relays
<tonyyarusso> Pici: We do have "undermaintained" packages, which are better referred to as "new package maintainer opportunities, with the hard part already done"
<bddebian> Heh, good point
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: You mean 99% of universe?
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: hehe, probably...
<tonyyarusso> you'd know better than I would though
<bddebian> Fujitsu: And what percentage of that is actually worth maintaining? ;-P
<Fujitsu> bddebian: Probably a bit.
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get install pr0n
<imbrandon> :)
<tazz> who has the responisebility of updating a perticular package? The entire MOTU team? I am on a look out to maintain any orphan package (If it exists, i have been told that things in ubuntu work a bit diffrently then in debain :-)
<imbrandon> yes the entire team
<superm1> yeah the entire team has the responsibility, unless a subteam lists themselves as maintainer
<superm1> then you might want to look to them before doing uploads
<superm1> eg ubuntu desktop team
<superm1> motu media
<superm1> etc
<tazz> ok so if i want to get my package uploaded i need to contact the relevent maintainer and see if he will upload it for me right?
<somerville32> no
<persia> bddebian: Actually, no.  That one mystifies me.  ctsim compiles cleanly with wxwidgets in place of wxwindows, but segfaults when running.  Tracking down the segfault didn't lead to any sane resolution for me.
<bddebian> Hmm
<persia> tazz: If a package is unmodified from Debian, it's fair game for your maintenance.  If it is team maintained by MOTU, it's also safe.  If the maintainer is a different Ubuntu team, it's worth pinging them.
<nixternal> anyone have a link so I can grab the multidistrotools scripts?
<tazz> persia, thanks things seem a bit clearer now.
<imbrandon> nixternal: Fujitsu has them on his people.uw.c site iirc
 * nixternal looks - thanks
<nixternal> imbrandon: are those the tools I need in order to run against experimental and have it create all of the "merge" stuff for me with the kde4 packages?
<nixternal> instead of manually going through each and every package
<persia> nixternal: What do you mean by "merge" stuff?  Perhaps you want the DaD code?
<imbrandon> it wont do the "merge" stuff like DaD but it will give you the info you want
<nixternal> hrmm, maybe running a local DaD here against experimental might do just that
 * nixternal hits up the DaD code on LP
<imbrandon> i'm about to give up on the kdebindings-kde4 pacakge for tonight, its a monster
<nixternal> imbrandon: I was trying to manually do a debian > ubuntu merge on kde4libs..that is a freakin' monster
<imbrandon> heh
<nixternal> and of course debian doesn't install into the same directories as we currently do
<TheMuso> imbrandon: If you want to go through the cdimage stuff, let me know as I have time to do so.
<imbrandon> well this sucks because they unlike the kde3 package are all split out etc and use diffrent patch systems and packaging
<coder2000> I am trying to compile a mono package with pbuilder for my personal use but the files aren't being included in the final package.
<imbrandon> so some are debhelper some are cdbs etc
<nixternal> imbrandon: groovy on ubuntuwire btw, if I hadn't said that before
<persia> imbrandon: just think of it as a robust and vibrant ecosystem :)
<coder2000> I have followed the guides on the wiki but nothing has any results
<somerville32> nixternal, What do you mean by that?
<nixternal> exactly what I said
<nixternal> :p
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: At least the entirety of KDE isn't in one source package.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: cool, give me 2 seconds to ssh into my box i'm gonna use for it
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: its in 3 :)
<somerville32> nixternal, I don't understand. Do you mean revu?
<nixternal> ubuntuwire.com
<persia> coder2000: Likely cause is that the upstream build system install target doesn't put it in the right place.  You might need to pass DESTDIR, you might need to patch, and you might need to be agressive with dh_install.
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Perhaps we use PM, so we don't flood the channel?
<imbrandon> nixternal: thanks
<imbrandon> TheMuso: sure
<somerville32> :S
<imbrandon> nixternal: btw i'm by far not the only person behind uw either :) see http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~uwsa :P
 * persia notes the sponsors list on http://www.ubuntuwire.com/ as well.
<imbrandon> yup yup
<ScottK> imbrandon: Have you got a minute to work on a security fix for backports?
<imbrandon> ScottK: security in backports ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Sure.
<imbrandon> ummm its normaly not done that way but ok...
<ScottK> imbrandon: The clamav is feisty-backports has vulnerabilities fixed in gutsy-security.
<coder2000> The default rules file from debhelper uses make install and does pass a DESTDIR.  Should I be using dh_install instead for a mono library and leave the gac until the package is installed?
<imbrandon> ahh
<ScottK> imbrandon: I was wondering if you could see if you can build/install that version in Feisty.  My feisty pbuilder is really fubar tonight.
<imbrandon> sure
<imbrandon> lemme grab it
<imbrandon> ScottK: you can always abuse the ppa to work as a pbuilder too :)
<ScottK> If I'd ever used one before I might try that.
<imbrandon> TheMuso: is it ok if i do this on a gutsy box or does it require hardy ?
<ScottK> I don't have time to learn.  Trying to get packed to leave for KC in the AM.
<persia> coder2000: You might want to check the Debian Mono team website, which likely has some hints on packaging (http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/).
<imbrandon> ScottK: no worries, i'll queue it up for here in a few minutes
<imbrandon> ScottK: did i ever give you my # ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bug/177537 is the bug.  Just mark the feisty-backports task in progress and subscribed the archive when your done.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 177537 in clamav "Remote Code Execution" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ScottK> imbrandon: Yes.  I've got it.
<imbrandon> ScottK: yea i know, i'm on the backports team too :)
<imbrandon> infact i think i was member #2 after jdong heh
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> maybe not though
<ScottK> imbrandon: Right.  Sorry for excess instructions.
<imbrandon> :P
<ScottK> imbrandon: Thanks for looking into it.  One less thing I have to mess with tonight.
<imbrandon> np
<imbrandon> StevenK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11013342/apt-mirror_0.4.5-1_all.deb
<imbrandon> thats for dapper ^^
<imbrandon> ( out of my ppa )
<persia> Does anyone have a good reason why a make script shouldn't go in /usr/bin/ (assuming it does something useful when called)
<Flannel> persia: Is it part of a package?
<persia> Flannel: It could be :)
<Flannel> persia: if its not, it should go in /usr/local/bin, if anywhere.
<persia> The question is more as to whether /usr/bin/make is considered an acceptable intepreter by default.
<tazz> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya
<TheMuso> dc
<TheMuso> ugh... meant for mutt
<warp10> Hi all!
<persia> hi warp10
<warp10> persia: hi! :)
 * Hobbsee sighs at MC mailing list
 * Hobbsee thumps people who appear not to be able to use a brain
 * persia needs to either work faster or mirror Hobbsee's screen locally.
<Hobbsee> mind you.  the stupidity does come from someone who's requested a backport of a bunch of scripts already...
<Hobbsee> persia: heh :)
<persia> Hobbsee: For the sake of argument, let's assume that the MC has local physical access and torture implements in case of non-compliance.
<Hobbsee> persia: yes, okay...
 * Hobbsee cites the previous non-compliance, and says "torture him now!"
<persia> Hobbsee: Doesn't matter.  Wasn't on probation then.  Now we have a procedure to complain, so complaining is good.  Before it was just random noise.
<persia> Hobbsee: To put it another way, plan deviously for the next three weeks: either you will be happy or you will have an excuse.
<Hobbsee> persia: they had the complaints for months.  they chose to sit on their hands.
<Hobbsee> persia: he's been on probation for ages.  he's been being told off for ages
<persia> Hobbsee: No official complaint to MC.  I stand by the procedure as much as I understand and agree with your frustration.
<Hobbsee> now they're doing the same thing, but the people change
<Hobbsee> persia: the first one was a private one to the CC, iirc
 * Hobbsee checks
<persia> Yep.  Wasn't that private, really :)
<persia> (assuming you mean in July)
<Hobbsee> wow, was it that far away?
 * Hobbsee is aware that ScottK made a complaint ages ago
<Hobbsee> like, an emailed complaint
<Hobbsee> persia: i thought the previous complaint proceedure was "whinge to the CC"
<persia> Hobbsee: Depends whose "private" complaint you consider first.  I'm happy that MC is now officially responsible, and may require things or institute penalties.  To me, that's worth waiting 6 months so that this isn't a special case.
<Hobbsee> er, MC.  and if they don't do anything, the CC
<ScottK> persia: Where was said procedure documented?
<persia> whingeing was never known for being the right thing :)
<Hobbsee> okay, so we've had a not-really-private complaint since july.  that's still *ages*
<ScottK> So far MC sits on its hands and does nothing.
<Hobbsee> persia: whinging with evidence is still acceptable, iirc.
<persia> ScottK: MC Charter page: change about disputes.  November I think, but maybe late October.
<ScottK> Then when a member of the community gets fed up, says "Let's do stuff over again and see if it comes out different".
<ScottK> persia: My complaint wasn't about a dispute that's particular between myself and one other person.
<persia> ScottK: I'd have preferred a prompter response as well, but setting time limits for MC responses is separate from this one frustrating case (and yes, I agree the case is very frustrating, and has caused many issues).
<ScottK> It's about someone whe was fundamentally disruptive.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  It wasn't about you.
<ScottK> So we get a do nothing response from a do nothing MC.
 * Hobbsee would have thought 6 months sitting on *any* community issue, still with nothing concrete, was unacceptable.
<persia> ScottK: I'm not prepared to agree with you on that yet.  I have three weeks of patience left, based on recent traffic.
<Hobbsee> and i don't view the same proceedure as before, but with different people, as a viable solution.
<ScottK> BTW, the complaint came as late as it did based on requests from MC members
<tsmithe> morning, motu
<DarkMageZ> MC ?
<RAOF> tsmithe: Greetings, fellow human!
<persia> Hobbsee: No, it's not, really, but now that we have the procedures to do something, maybe we can do something.  Better than not doing anything.
<ScottK> MOTU Council
<Hobbsee> he's proven that he doesn't respect ubuntu people, so what's one group of them, vs another?
<ScottK> Hello tsmithe
<ScottK> And even if this period of observations "works" all that proves is he only listens under threat.
<ScottK> What good is that.
<tsmithe> hi ScottK, RAOF. is this a meeting? i thought the meeting was in 5 hours?
<persia> ScottK: Understood.  I'm not happy about that either, and certainly don't include private requests to delay in the list of things I'll defend about MC.
<ScottK> No, this is people whining.
<Hobbsee> persia: procedures...meh.  all the procedures in teh world won't help, if people sit on thei rhands, and do nothing.  of course, teh fact that procedures seem to be along the lines of "give him x amount more time, then we'll see where to go from here" is not a valid procedure.
<persia> tsmithe: Just us making noise here rather than flooding the MC ML.
<ScottK> Personally, I'd say whatever legitimacy MC ever had has gone out the window.
<Hobbsee> that's just buying time, and giving them the same problem in 3 weeks as they have now.
<tsmithe> oh ok then, i'm not in a position to comment about MC, so i'll just shush :)
<persia> Hobbsee: I agree.  I'd have preferred to see the brimstone at the end of the vertical tunnel as well, but I'm willing to give them the three weeks they requested.
<Hobbsee> persia: i would be, if i actually had any confidence that they'd do anything different in 3 weeks time.
<ScottK> persia: What do these 3 weeks do?
<persia> ScottK: Why?  How is the ligitimacy of a body related to the quality of their actions?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: the MC will monitor his actions.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: perhaps to him, one of the groups of sponsorship is more important than the others
<ScottK> Yeah, so he holds his breath for three weeks and all is fogivien.
<ScottK> forgiven
<persia> Hobbsee: Sure.  I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt.  It's not worth it to me to complain now when I have that much more force behind my complaint at that time.
<ScottK> persia: I consider the MC to have at best a very limited legitimacy from a community perspective.
<Hobbsee> persia: my other problem is that if he gets it all fine with the MC watching, he goes back to teh sponsorship queues, and does what he likes with them, as he's done his probation, and so therefore thinks he's tentitled to do what he likes.
<persia> ScottK: No.  Three weeks of nothing doesn't mean everything is fine (or at least that would cause me to stop being an apologist).  Three weeks of helping in a constructive way is the only thing I believe he can do to meet the requirements.
<ScottK> persia: They are effectively imposed by the TB.
<persia> Hobbsee: That would be wrong.
<Hobbsee> persia: sure, but what do you expect the MC will actually do, in that case, if we find that happens?
<ScottK> They don't come from the community and clearly have no interest in helping when people are disruptive
<Hobbsee> persia: sit on their hands for another while, put him under probation again, see if he learns from next time?
<persia> ScottK: I'm also not entirely happy with the means by which MC is populated, but I don't see that the legitimacy of the body is inn any way related to their decisions and actions taken.
<persia> Hobbsee: I don't think that will be the result.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: geser is community-based.
<Hobbsee> persia: you think the MC will actually act then?
<Hobbsee> short of bouncing it up to the CC and back, for a copule of months?
<ScottK> persia: If they act based on community input then that can overcome their lack of legitimacy.
<persia> Hobbsee: I have no evidence.  If there is disruption in the future, and the MC does not act, I will no longer apologize for them.
<ScottK> I don't feel they are doing that.
<Hobbsee> persia: i have no confidence that kmos has actually learned about caring about other people.  i think he actually views probation as something that gets in his way, and something that he has to pout about, and use an excuse for not even trying to work with other people.
<Hobbsee> persia: consequently, i feel that i have to object to the MC's plan, as they don't deal with that issue
<ScottK> Multiple MOTUs come to them and say there is a problem and their response is let's try stuff again that already hasn't worked.
<Hobbsee> (if you want proof of that, see the debian-games ML)
<persia> Hobbsee: I agree with you, and I expect MC's actions at the end of probation to reflect that.
<ScottK> It really amounts to nothing.
<Hobbsee> persia: i really hope so.  i wasn't kidding about people rethinking their MOTU status.
<ScottK> persia: There's no procedure that required them to try stuff over.
<persia> ScottK: I defend this procedure because when it is I that several MOTUs complain about, I want three weeks to demonstrate my contributions and lack of disruption.
<persia> Hobbsee: I understand.
<Hobbsee> persia: you say the above would be wrong.  i agree with you.  but i've seen enough of kmos that i suspect that's *exactly* how he's going to act. :(
<ScottK> persia: I understand that, but I believe that past disruption despite attempts from the community to mitigate it are sufficient in themselves.
<persia> ScottK: Were this not the very first case, I'd agree with you.
<ScottK> My conclusion is that the MC will do nothing and so it's up to us to police the community through peer pressure.
<Hobbsee> persia: the proceedure of yours is fine.  i think what ScottK is saying is that he shouldn't get this proceedure, based on how he's already had it a few times over, but by different people.
<ScottK> persia: That's exactly why it's sufficient.  There's no precend to the contrary.
<Hobbsee> persia: and i'm somewhat in that category too
<persia> ScottK: Right, but I don't want execution as precedent, given the weight currently behind dropping Kmos.
<ScottK> persia: What weight>
<ScottK> '?
<persia> Hobbsee: Not my procedure.  I'm just defending MC's role in defining the procedures and penalties.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: him being the first person to get kicked out of ubuntu
<Hobbsee> persia: granted.
<ScottK> From the MC perspective the past is irrelevant as long as he behaves.
<persia> ScottK: MC + explicit CC delegation on this issue.
<Hobbsee> persia: wrong words, sorry :)
<Hobbsee> persia: s/proceedure of yours/proceedure of the MC's/g
<persia> ScottK: I haven't seen that in any explicit statement.  Maybe some MC member feels that, but that's irrelevant to the issue.
<ScottK> Personally, I think excecution for such bad behavior would be an excellent precedent.
<ScottK> persia: That's the end result of the proposal.
<Hobbsee> persia: of course, i have one other problem with this
<ScottK> Behave now and all it forgiven.  That's what's on offer.
 * persia has an interruption and will return shortly
<Hobbsee> persia: if, by some major act of thunder, kmos does behave under them, and for a sufficient time after...he still won't be deserving of MOTUship, as he's already proved that he does not care about non-MC members, and their possible workloads.
<Hobbsee> in which case, the point is somewhat moot anyway - he'll never be able to get to MOTU
<somerville32> Never?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I wouldn't count on that.
<ScottK> The current policy seems pretty open.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: not if he can't prove he can actually work well with existing MOTU's, etc
<Hobbsee> in matters of transitions, merges, etc...actual ubuntu stuff, rather than social stuff
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That's clearly not required by at least some MC members
<Hobbsee> ScottK: erm...who's been allowed that fails that requirement?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: apart from some of the canonical people?
<persia> ScottK: Right.  I'd agree with you for everything except that I'm a policy wonk.  Please let three weeks pass before you declaim MC, as it's better that we have an MC than not, and MC can't have authority we don't grant it.
<Hobbsee> is it better to have an MC if they just sit on their hands, though...
<persia> Hobbsee: Sure.  This isn't about him being MOTU, this is about him being forcibly ejected from the community.
 * Hobbsee wonders
<persia> It's not better to have them sit on their hands, but they haven't done that.
<Hobbsee> persia: was meaning "where coudl he go from here, if he did reform?"
<persia> They have given a schedule and proposals for a solution since being given official protest.
<ScottK> Well he hasn't actually made it yet, but dholbach seemed to me to argue that working with the community wasn't actually required.
 * Fujitsu also got that impression.
<persia> They have stated they will report in mid-January as to whether the offender will be removed from the project.  Details of removal were not specified.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: is this being on irc, or?
<ScottK> persia: What have they proposed that hasn't been tried already.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No, submitting bogus debdiffs without asking for help when clearly over their head.
<persia> ScottK: Nothing.  It's about it being MC.  it won't work, and everyone (even MC) knows that, but that doesn't matter: it's the correct precedent to set.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh *classy
<ScottK> persia: I disagree.  It says that all the efforts the community made before don't count.
<somerville32> Would it not be preferable for Kmos to smarten up and become a positive contributor though?
<ScottK> persia: I particularly disagree in this case because dholbach (an MC member) asked Kmos to submit stuff via him, he agreed and didnt' do it.
<ScottK> somq
<ScottK> Argh.
<persia> ScottK: Unfortunately that is true.  I don't know how to balance reports from several prominent members with MC authority.  For now, I defend MC authority, but blame the current disconnect on changing procedures (from none to this)
<ScottK> somerville32: Not possible.
<persia> somerville32: Yes, but exceedingly unlikely at this point.
<somerville32> I hope they give him some kind of "time line" as to when he might try again.
<somerville32> I would strongly oppose a blanket "get out and don't ever come back"
<ScottK> persia: The MC, with no precedent, could have proceeded however they chose.
<ScottK> They chose to discount the work already done by the community to get this guy to do productive work.
<ScottK> somerville32: Even my proposal had a path back.
<ScottK> No one has proposed "Don't ever come back".
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> ScottK, Why do you have a "us vs. them" attitude? Isn't the MC Motu too?
<ScottK> I don't view them as a legitimate governing body for the MOTU community.  I don't think they deserve it.
<ScottK> So far they sit on their hands and do nothing.
<somerville32> Well, when is the next electoral cycle?
<ScottK> There is no electoral cycle.
<ScottK> That's part of the problem.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: There is, but isn't it only to approve them?
<ScottK> There is a TB selection followed by a beauty contest
<ScottK> That's not an election.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: it's "those who actually can do something about the problem, but don't tend to" vs "those who have to deal with his crap normally"
<ScottK> And so I've quit dealing with it.
<Hobbsee> although, i think geser does tend to normally deal with a bit of the sponsors queue
<persia> ScottK: Yes, they could have proceeded in any manner.  Yes, your proposal had a way back.  Yes, it doesn't show the previous attempts (of which I have not seen documentation).  On the other hand, when it comes to my trial, I want two weeks.
<ScottK> I'll do the bits I care about and the rest can hang at this point.
<ScottK> persia: I didn't expect to have to provide all the documentation on the initial input.
<ScottK> dholbach asked kmos to check with him before filing any bugs or doing anything and it lasted about a week.
<persia> ScottK: Understood.  On the other hand, I'm willing to wait three weeks without documentation.  It's three weeks, and other people will be specifically responsible for dealing with any issues during that time, so I shouldn't feel pain.
<persia> If I feel any pain, I'll complain (and hope others would as well), towards taking appropriate action.
 * somerville32 nods.
<ScottK> Well you're entitled to your perspective.  I'll just avoid the pain by not caring about packages I don't use.
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  That was true.  I don't know if there was further communication indicating he was allowed to stop checking.
<ScottK> To my understanding there was not.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  I just encourage you not to claim MC will do nothing until the three weeks have passed.  At that point, I'll agree with you that the current process is unworkable, or the issue will go away.
<ScottK> So far they've done nothing.
<ScottK> I'll believe in action when I see it.
<persia> They've instituted a procedure, and begun a probation period.
<ScottK> Which amount to not doing anything so far, just a promise of maybe doing something in the future.
<persia> I don't mind you being skeptical, but actively claiming that the current process affects MC's legitimacy (which already has other issues) doesn't move us towards a less painful state.
<ScottK> A less painful state would have been them doing something.
 * persia appreciates the "so far" in the previous statement
<persia> ScottK: We have a loop.  It will be resolved in three weeks.
<ScottK> We'll see.
<persia> Also, if the probation is workable, and the two volunteers are able to effectively limit actions, nobody else should have any pain.
<ScottK> In either case, it's clear that there's no point in me trying to work with problematic contributors in the future.
<persia> Why not?
<somerville32> ScottK, Please don't say that :(
<Hobbsee> persia: excluding idiocy on irc, mailing lists, etc.
<ScottK> Because only when the MC experiences a problem does it count.
<somerville32> ScottK, Most will prosper with your assistance :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: +1
<Hobbsee> as actual evidence, anyawy
<persia> Right.  Let me state my opinion of how to handle things in the future: mild issues: correction via IRC or mail.  refusal to learn or major issues: escalation to MC.  No waiting several months.
<persia> I think there's a lot of value in the efforts for mild issues, and expect MC to handle major issues, and expect all members of MOTU to be sure that MC does so.
<Hobbsee> welcome to the blood bath, daniel!
<dholbach> good morning
<persia> dholbach: Good morning.
<Hobbsee> persia: assuming the MC actually does something about it, that proceedure works.
<ScottK> somerville32: This is the natural consequence of the current situation
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  So let's give it three weeks to find out what MC does, rather than saying it won't work before they do it.  I'm not saying it will work, just that it's worth giving MC the chance so that we can rely on them in the future.
<ScottK> Right, so the clear situation is not to try and solve problems ourselves, but to complain to the MC and let them handle it.
<persia> ScottK: I'd suggest some granularity.  For little things, it likely doesn't need MC.  For big things, or persistent uncorrected little things, yes.
<ScottK> persia: But the whole "let's try again and see if it's different" approach inherently discounts all the work that was done before.
<dholbach> ScottK: the MOTU team has solved problems themselves before - the MC this time steps in due to very unusual circumstances
<persia> ScottK: As I said before, that is unfortunately true.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: dholbach's probably better to comment on that one
<ScottK> dholbach: I don't think you're solving anything now.
<Hobbsee> anyway
<ScottK> You're just discounting all that happened before.
 * Hobbsee takes a few drinks, and hands ScottK and persia some
<dholbach> ScottK: that's not what's happening
<persia> dholbach: That's not actually useful: either MC deals with it because it's MC's job, or MC deals with it immediately when MOTU can't.  You can't have a good procedure and expect MOTU to self-address issues.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I've already had plenty or I wouldn't be so honest.
<dholbach> and it's not fair to say "and he'll get another chance and another one and another one" when the proposal clearly says "that he'll be asked to not work on Ubuntu any more"
<ScottK> dholbach: You already asked him once to check with you before he did anything.  How is what's proposed new?
<persia> ScottK: Penalties + official MC stance
<ScottK> He's not asked anything he's not already been asked.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: iirc, that was said months ago tool
<dholbach> persia: What I wanted to say is that "the MOTU team can't deal with problems" is a bit over the top
<Hobbsee> dholbach: wasn't that the end result of the discussions in boston too?  that was 2 months ago.
<ScottK> persia: Exactly, so now all problems get pitched to the MC so they can be official.
<persia> ScottK: Right, but if he doesn't do it this time, he will be removed from the project.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i could have sworn that's what jcastro said to me.
<Hobbsee> and ScottK
<Hobbsee> that his account would be restricted to a plain jane LP account, and that he coudl not contribute to ubuntu.
<ScottK> Yes and in the future, I don't try to solve problems.  I'll immediately complain to the MC.
<persia> ScottK: It's about problem size.  For little things and first offenses I think it's better to correct generally.  For larger issues or repeated offenses with correction, I agree.
<Hobbsee> but...this doesn't look like that.  now, either these 2 people have told me wrong (which would be possible), or you've gone and backtracked.
<ScottK> persia: Expect my threshold to be low now.
<Hobbsee> if that's true, then how should i have *any* confidence that you will not backtrack again now?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I said it a lot of times before: I would have wished it would have been dealt with before and I hope it doesn't happen like that again
<Hobbsee> or, after the 3 weeks?
<ScottK> dholbach: I will say that I think this outcome is contrary to what I was told at UDS.
<persia> ScottK: I'd hope it would be at the point where someone annoyed you by doing things wrong again after you'd explained before.
<ScottK> persia: What would be the point?
<ScottK> Whatever I say doesn't amount to anything.  MC will just do it over, so I'll let them.
<persia> ScottK: Not flooding MC.  Helping people who made a mistake because they were learning, rather than because they didn't care or couldn't learn.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm fairly sure you said that in boston, or something close to it.  how have things chnaged between then adn now?
<dholbach> I'll reply on the email thread
<Hobbsee> ...you're sidestepping.
<ScottK> Thanks for the open discussion.
<persia> dholbach: You'd do better to reply here and recap in email.  Let's not have a flamewar about this.
<ScottK> dholbach: You are the one that told me to give him more time before complaining.
<ScottK> dholbach: You and jono told me at UDS it'd be handled.
<ScottK> dholbach: This is not handling it.
<somerville32> :(
<dholbach> ScottK: you asked me to ask for feedback from a number of people - it's what the MC did - you're complaining now because this is not the outcome that you wanted
<ScottK> dholbach: Yes.  I am.
<persia> dholbach: No.  He's complaining about the delay.
<ScottK> I'm also complaining that no decision is made.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: so...you got the feedback...then you read it, seemingly ignore it, and ask for more feedback direct to you, from kmos.
<persia> ScottK: That would be wrong, if you are.  Previously you had a good argument with the "no decision is made" point.
<Hobbsee> if you were going to do that, what was the point in asking for it in the first place?
<dholbach> persia: I'm not happy about the delay either and I will work to not let something like this happen again
<ScottK> persia: I'm not happy about the delay or the result.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: not Kmos feedback, but from people who sponsored him, like Jordan or Cesare
<ScottK> Personally, I think there've been plenty of chance.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yes, so, you got that.  then you ask him to give you direct feedback, in you sponsoring all his uploads.
<ScottK> I didn't see any public feedback that would indicate more chances are required.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I'm not sure I understand
<ScottK> But he already tried that once.
<ScottK> dholbach: You already asked him once before all this came up to work through you on stuf and he didn't do it.
<ScottK> dholbach: So now you ask him to do the exact same thing again.
<ScottK> To what end?
<dholbach> ScottK: ok, you proposed to suspend his LP account which to the best of my knowledge does not work like that and that he will have another chance if he can prove himself (outside of all active development)
<ScottK> dholbach: Jono told me it could be worked.
<dholbach> I propose that he'll be under a public supervision now and has the chance to redeem himself or as Jordan added to the proposal will be asked to not work on Ubuntu any longer
<ScottK> dholbach: So the lesson here is that LP account cannot be suspened no matter what?
<dholbach> we can have the discussion with Jono and LP folks if you like
<ScottK> If "It doesn't work like that", what will happen if this trial period doesn't go well?
<ScottK> More asking nicely?
<ScottK> dholbach: It's no longer my prolbme.
 * persia expects it not to be nice
<dholbach> persia: no, it won't be nice
<ScottK> problme/problem
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you asked for sponsor feedback.  you read that, then asked for anything else kmos wanted uploaded to go thru you or geser.ie, ignoring the previous lot of feedback, and getting feedback from yourself.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: kmos has been under public supervision for months now.  it's called u-u-s
<ScottK> Hobbsee: But we're just peons.  Our experience doesn't count.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: apparently not.
<persia> It shouldn't have taken this long to escalate to MC, and it shouldn't have taken this long to move to resolution.  U-U-S opinions count (see sponsors feedback thread), and go to "final chance" mode.
<dholbach> ScottK: that's not true - I said that I wished it had been dealt with before and that I don't want anything like this happening again
 * Hobbsee wonders when dholbach first started saying that.
<persia> dholbach: You mean that it shouldn't take so long next time?
<dholbach> persia: yeah, that's what I meant
<ScottK> dholbach: That's odd considering you were the one asking me to give him more chances.
<ScottK> dholbach: If you don't want this to happen again, not actually deciding what happened to date was a problem isn't the best way to go about it.
<dholbach> ScottK: I think applying the process (we have now) earlier next time is going to help
<ScottK> dholbach: What process?  MC does nothing until someone gets sufficiently fed up to complain publically?
<ScottK> That seems to be the process.
<persia> ScottK: That's the first step in the process.
<ScottK> OK.  We'll definitely get past that bit more quickly next time.
<ScottK> I need to get to bed.
<persia> Right.  Then it gets simpler.  Next time should be less painful.  This is bad, and needs to be solved properly in three weeks.
<dholbach> the process it to put somebody under that surveillance earlier next time
<ScottK> dholbach: So my mistake was respecting your requests to wait.
<ScottK> Got it.
<persia> ScottK: Except the process wasn't there then, but yes.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<persia> Good night ScottK
<somerville32> Night ScottK
 * Hobbsee ponders blogging about all this, or something
<persia> Hobbsee: Not worth it.  It's just a pointless argument about how badly we managed our procedure for ejection over the past six months.  Wait three weeks, and you can blog in celebration of our new ejection procedure.
<Hobbsee> persia: yes.  something like that.  or raise loud complaints about how it's been 3 weeks, and nothing has been done
<Hobbsee> but yes.
<Hobbsee> which date is the 3 weeks?
<somerville32> Negativity sucks :(
<persia> Hobbsee: Geser said "mid-January".  I'd expect that to mean hearing a report somewhere in the 15th to 17th range, depending on TB or CC meetings.  By MOTU Meeting on the 18th, all should be sorted.
<Hobbsee> persia: i want a solid date.
<Hobbsee> persia: so that it can't slide, say to teh end of jan, or mid feb, or...
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm not a person who can give one.  Ask MC.
<Hobbsee> "oh, he's changing.  just give him a bit longer"..hey look, another 6 months, same problem.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: can i have a date please?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: we'll wait for the end of the vote, then the public surveillance will start - I guess there might have been a better date than the christmas holidays, etc - but we'll aim for a report on what happened in two weeks
<dholbach> maybe make it monday, so I'll be back in berlin again and work on the summary
<dholbach> I'll talk to Cesare about it and announce it
 * persia is happy with three weeks over the public holidays rather than further delay for two weeks during other points of the year.
<dholbach> persia: that makes sense
<persia> dholbach: Not my proposal.  Belongs to geser.
<dholbach> I haven't read all new email yet
<Nergar> hello
<Nergar> i have a serious question, why isn't webmin in the repositories!!!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: *poke*
<dholbach> Nergar: I think it was removed from debian quite a while ago
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: answer ^
<Fujitsu> It was killed off a long time ago, fortunately.
<StevenK> Why isn't webmin in the repositories?
<Nergar> well, it needs packing
<Fujitsu> No, it doesn't.
<Nergar> why not?
<StevenK> It's out, and it isn't coming back
 * Fujitsu is glad of that.
<dholbach> where is the "this package was removed from debian due to xyz" list?
<persia> dholbach: "ftp-master removals.txt" are the keywords you seek.
<Amaranth> Wasn't it removed because it was a security nightmare?
<persia> Amaranth: That matches my memory.
<StevenK> Amaranth: Right.
<dholbach> persia: gracias
<StevenK> It's a security nightmare, the code is horrible, and it *runs as root*
<Nergar> i dont get it
<Nergar> it looks amazing
<Nergar> oh
<Amaranth> Holy crap, that's sad.
<Fujitsu> Webapps as root, yay.
<DarkMageZ> webmin was a very popular target back in the old days =D
<Nergar> well something like webmin could really push ubuntu server, but then again theres a reason why we don't use Microsoft shit
 * dholbach takes the plunge and leaves into the cold (-5Â°C) to walk the dog
 * RAOF remembers words like "Landscape" being bandied anound for remote admin stuff
<persia> Isn't there a dummy package for landscape around?
<soren> landscape-client
<soren> Yes.
<dholbach> hey soren
<soren> Hi, dholbach!
<cyberix> Lintian tells me "E: malbolge_0.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: md5sum-mismatch-in-changes-file malbolge_0.1-0ubuntu1.dsc"
<cyberix> I'm using dh_md5sums so I have no idea how the md5sum can be wrong.
<cyberix> Any guesses?
<minghua> cyberix: It has nothing to do with dh_md5sums.
<minghua> cyberix: Run md5sum on malbolge_0.1-0ubuntu1.dsc and compare the result with the one in malbolge_0.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes.
<cyberix> K
<cyberix> How can these be wrong?
<cyberix> They were created automagically.
<dholbach> cyberix: is this repeatable? can you generate them again and see if it happens again?
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hey geser
<cyberix> I don't seem to get the warning, if I build the source package only.
<cyberix> So building the binary package changes the files in some way.
<TheMuso> Good morning geser
<harrisony> morning and evening all
<harrisony> is there still going to be a revu day on monday (even though its christmas eve)
<geser> Hi dholbach, TheMuso
<cyberix> I just got my package ready. What a pitty the next revu day is 24.12 and the one following one is 31.12.
<cyberix> :-(
<cyberix> pi tty
<slytherin> When do generally the requests of type 'move from multiverse to universe' get processed?
<geser> slytherin: usually on an archive day
<slytherin> geser: And when is that scheduled?
<geser> slytherin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration, right before the first section
<geser> today is pitti's archive day
<geser> slytherin: if you want you could ask pitti in #ubuntu-devel if this bug will gets processed today
<slytherin> No. Leave it.
<tsmithe> hi; could i be a pain and ask for a review of mscore (music notation program). i think it's close now :) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mscore
<tsmithe> the pedant in me requires that i correct that first sentence to add a ?
<persia> tsmithe: Everyone is allowed one request a day outside of REVU day.  Don't consider yourself to be being a pain.
 * persia has apparently been parndered to, and feels thereby obligated to review.
<persia> s/arn/an/
<tsmithe> haha, thank you ever so much, persia :D
<harrisony> persia: is that 1 package a day or 1 spam in the channel a day
<tsmithe> well if i'm allowed a spam as well...
 * harrisony has posted the link to ttf-liberation 2ce today :P (make that 2.5)
<persia> harrisony: The actual rule is "Don't annoy the developers".  It's written as "ask in #ubuntu-motu, not more than once per day".  Generally, it should only be exercised when you upload changes to the package, and ask.  Someone will likely tell you if you ask too often, but reviewers may ignore you until REVU day unless they have a particular interest.
<harrisony> ahhhhh
<geser> reminder to all: MOTU meeting in 35 min
<harrisony> oooo
<persia> harrisony: Twice for the same upload in a single day is on the edge of accepted behaviour.  You can get away with it once in a while, but on non-REVU days, the best type of note is "I just uploaded foo, addressing the reviewer's comments.  Could someone please take a look at http://..."
<harrisony> persia: O, i asked once and no one replyed so a few hours later i posted it again. ill refrain from doing that in the future
<geser> persia: harrisony wanted to know if there is a REVU day on monday
<persia> harrisony: Nobody replying is usually an indication of people being busy.
<harrisony> since on monday i wont be around :(
<persia> geser: Yes.  Every Monday until FF (although the last couple aren't likely to result in getting into hardy, as the archive admins likely won't have time to review the NEW queue).
<harrisony> and need to know weither to hack a ninja irssi script to auto post the link at some time in the day
<persia> harrisony: Ah.  Someone might review it anyway.  Don't hack a script: the reason that people respond to advertisements is that the packager will be around for interactive discussion.
<geser> persia: even on Dec 24th and Dec 31st?
<persia> geser: Yep.  Traffic might be low, but they will officially be REVU days.
<geser> ok
<harrisony> also where would be the best place to ask about licensing concerns (like debian-legal for ubuntu)
<persia> geser: Do you think it's better to announce a break?  I'll likely have time for a couple (but not many), and I'd guess that was true for a couple other people (given the 49-hour "day").
<persia> harrisony: There's no equivalent.  You can get hints here, but no authoritative answer.  What license?
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<harrisony> http://redhat.com/promo/fonts its gpl+exception and it was rejected for debian but i think a person on LP said that the larabie fonts are in multiverse and are completly non-free so there is hope for them to get in but this package is a real good candiate for main
<cyberix> I'm looking after first sponsor for my package malbolge. I have uploaded the package to revu and fixed all relevant linda and lintian errors. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
<geser> persia: good question. Will there be enough reviewers and contributors around for a proper REVU day?
<geser> Hi joejaxx
 * TheMuso won't be around.
<persia> geser: I'm not sure, but some of the recent days didn't seem very active either.  It's a balance between people's holiday commitments and the larger number of public holidays at this time of year.  Perhaps sending a reminder that the next week will be an official "Ubuntu break", and so there may be a lower number of reviewers available?
<TheMuso> IM O if you are sitting in front of your comuter on Christmas Eve, then theres something wrong. :)
<persia> I'm not sure what to do about the 31st: that's officially a working week for Ubuntu (according to the schedule), which makes it harder to say "this isn't REVU day".
<geser> persia: sounds good
<persia> TheMuso: Maybe.  Not everyone does Christmas.
<persia> geser: What about the 31st?
<TheMuso> persia: I know that. :)
<cyberix> On the other hand any comments regarding my package are welcome.
<cyberix> :-)
 * persia will be working on the 25th, but has the 24th off due to the Emperor's birthday
<geser> persia: I guess most people will be busy with other things than waiting for a review
<StevenK> persia: It is really the Emperor's birthday?
<persia> geser: That's my thought.  I think we'd see significantly reduced participation by both reviewers and packagers, and thought it might be a balance.  That's likely more true for the 31st, but an annoucement that the 24th is the holiday break week, and REVU day may be understaffed seems appropriate.
<persia> StevenK: Actually, Sunday is, but we get Monday off here for holidays that fall on Sunday.
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: You can try to have a look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/158432 even though you may not find a solution will be a good exercise anyway
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158432 in abiword "AbiWord crashed with abiword plugins installed" [Medium,Triaged]
 * persia notes that Japan has more public holidays that anywhere else, because when there is a new Emperor, the old "Emperor's Birthday" gets a new name, and keeps being a public holiday
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<TheMuso> I thought canonical had a break until after new year
<persia> Fujitsu: The first week of May is especially rich.  There's rarely more than one or two working days :)
<DarkMageZ> doesn't france have 1/4 of the year off?
 * Rospo_Zoppo looks
<Fujitsu> persia: Nice.
<persia> DarkMageZ: For every business?  I thought that was including personal holidays.
<harrisony> nah canonical are ninja, they dont get breaks
<persia> harrisony: Next week is holiday break.
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: thank you, I will have a look at it
<StevenK> persia: Ah. NSW, QLD and a few other states have a public holiday in June for the Queen of England's birthday, WA and one other state has that public holiday in October, and her actual birthday is in March.
<StevenK> persia: Hence the question. :-)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Old Queen of England, actually.
 * persia thinks that's just plain wrong.  People's birthdays should be celebrated on the anniversary of the day they were born
<persia> Fujitsu: Would it be the case that NSW & QLD appreciate a different Queen than NT, SA, or WA?
 * Fujitsu thought $CURRENTQUEEN's birthday was the same as him - 04/21.
<Fujitsu> persia: QUite possibly.
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: thats in main though, so tread carefully
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: ok
<Fujitsu> Oh, the Queen's Birthday holiday here is always the second Monday of June. How arbitrary.
<persia> That's just plain wrong.  It's one thing to have a "Happy Monday" policy, and move holidays when they don't make for a long weekend, but quite another to be that arbitrary.
<zul> doesnt the aussies want to be a republic anyways?
<StevenK> (I remember that since my birthday falls around the time of the public holiday)
<persia> zul: Some.  It's contentious.
<StevenK> I didn't want one earlier because I didn't want Prime Minister Howard becoming President Howard. Now that he's gone, I'm in favour again
 * persia enjoys the existence of Emperors, but finds them more useful ceremonially.  Foreign monarchs are just odd.
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: I can't reproduce that, maybe is only for AMD64
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: they mention its only with the grammar plugin installed
<TheMuso> Meeting in 3 mins.
<Rospo_Zoppo> norsetto: i've installed abiword-plugins, isn't grammar plugin included in that ?
<persia> geser: Announcement sent.  Thanks for the poke.
<norsetto> Rospo_Zoppo: I don't know, check it
<Rospo_Zoppo> ok
<TheMuso> eeting on now in #ubuntu-meeting
<TheMuso> `meeting even
<TheMuso> If there is anybody here who has had trouble using interdiffs either for getting sponsorship or reviewing, please join #ubuntu-meeting now to discuss why.
<persia> dholbach: About recipes: The issue is that I write like a book, or like a script, and have lots of trouble with in-between.
<dholbach> persia: no problem - let's discuss it in the new year - I'm happy to work on it
<persia> Basically, running interdiff -z packagename_version-revision.diff.gz packagename_newversion-newrevision.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > packagename_newversion-newrevision.interdiff.gz does it.
<dholbach> persia: if you can review it in the end, that'll help me already
<persia> dholbach: I'm more than happy to do that.  Thanks.
<dholbach> great, thanks persia
<dholbach> on my list
<TheMuso> And on that note, I'm off to bed. I'll likely not see most of you online in the morning, so seasons greetings to you all, and enjoy your break.
<persia> TheMuso: Have a good night, and a good holiday.
<TheMuso> I'm heading off tomorrow and will be gone for 5/6 days
<dholbach> TheMuso: and the same to you!
<TheMuso> dholbach, persia, thanks.
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 11 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<drunkmonkey>  Has anyone had a problem with dvd burners not reading blank cd-r's?
<awalton__> I think that would be everyone ;)
<awalton__> (nothing to read)
<DarkMageZ> drunkmonkey, not a support channel. see #ubuntu. and no. my dvd burner cannot read black cd-r's. but it can burn to them.
<DarkMageZ> blank*
 * persia suspects black is hard too: tends to absorb lasers :)
<DarkMageZ> persia, remember the old ps1 discs =D you could actually buy black blank cd-rs ?
<persia> DarkMageZ: Well, they weren't really black, but they looked that way :)
<slytherin> were they dark blue?
<persia> slytherin: I forget exactly.  I think they were partially reflective in infrared, but non-reflective in the visible spectrum.
<StevenK> Right.
<StevenK> The PS1 has a very sensitive photo-diode, Sony were hoping normal readers weren't as sensitive.
 * imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> StevenK: fwiw apt-mirror is in dapper -backports now, got the email about it a few minutes ago
<geser> Hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya geser
<StevenK> imbrandon: I'm currently switching to it
<imbrandon> cool
<StevenK> imbrandon: I had a feature request
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> debmirror import ? heh
<StevenK> imbrandon: A "Run this script after mirroring" feature, so you can rsync down installer-* and extra bits
<imbrandon> ahh i'm doing exactly that, i need that feature too as well as TheMuso
<imbrandon> also if you manualy rsync something into the same tree
<imbrandon> you will need to add lines like
<imbrandon> skip-clean http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sarge/main/installer-i386/
<StevenK> Done that
<imbrandon> so clean.sh dosent try to clean them
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> just makin sure
<StevenK> clean.sh better not clean them :-)
<imbrandon> the fist few runs i always read clean.sh before i ran it
<imbrandon> it dosent run automaticly
<imbrandon> first*
<imbrandon> infact it dosent "need" to be run at all, but then the archive will steadily grow because of superceeded and removed packages
<imbrandon> hehe
<StevenK> It's a postclean up job anyway?
<imbrandon> yea
<StevenK> universe/m. Come on, one-liner, move it
<StevenK> n-z, and still 14Gb
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> okies, time for some food
<StevenK> imbrandon: If it doesn't run automatically, do I need to run it by hand?
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea after the first run or two i stick it on the cron to run just before the next run
<imbrandon> so its always one sync behind apt-mirror
<imbrandon> but thats just how *I* do it
<imbrandon> but the first time or two it generates it i would read it first to verify the skip-clean lines are correct, if you dont use skip-clean lines then its very solid
<StevenK> I think an set autoclean option in mirror.list would be nice
<StevenK> It mirrors, and then runs clean.sh itself
<imbrandon> yea, when i add this other sctip option i'll add that
<imbrandon> script*
<StevenK> Oh, so I'm getting my feature request today? :-)
<imbrandon> probably ;)
<imbrandon> once i wake a bit more and acualy open an editor :)
 * imbrandon has been awake less than an hour hehe
<imbrandon> StevenK: i do have one question though, how good is your perl-regex foo ?
<StevenK> Fairly unreadable
<StevenK> imbrandon: I can write them fairly well
<imbrandon> e.g. one downfall of apt-mirror i havent been able to overcome is , ok you know how it makes /var/spool/apt-mirror/mirror/host.com
<StevenK> Right
<imbrandon> if credentials are put into the mirror.list it blows up
<StevenK> Well, $mirror_path/host.com
<imbrandon> like mirroring a private mirror
<imbrandon> StevenK: right
<StevenK> Oh right, http://user:pass@host/
<imbrandon> exactly
<StevenK> And http://host:82/ if I recall ?
<imbrandon> that kills it
<imbrandon> yup
<StevenK> Can I see the error?
<StevenK> wget should be able to deal with either syntax
<imbrandon> well wget does apt-mirror dosent later
<StevenK> (Why it doesn't use LWP, who knows)
<imbrandon> it tries to make the dirs $mirror/user@host:blah.com
<imbrandon> err
<StevenK> Ahh
<imbrandon> so i would need to strip that info before making the dirs etc
<StevenK> It assumes the URL is *just* a URL
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> and whats LWP ?
<StevenK> You so didn't just ask me that.
<StevenK> LWP (3pm)            - The World-Wide Web library for Perl
<imbrandon> ohhh yea, well i think becuse he wanted to keep it to pure perl and wget as the only deps
<imbrandon> so it would work virtualy anywhere even on windows
<StevenK> LWP is written in pure Perl
<StevenK> Then you lose the wget dependancy
<imbrandon> is it in every perl install
<imbrandon> ?
<StevenK> Nope
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> still might be worth looking at
<StevenK> I think you need libwww-perl for it
<imbrandon> as long as all the major distros have it and its avail on windows too i dont see a problem
<StevenK> Or support both
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> that shouldent be hard
<imbrandon> i havent seen anyone use it anywhere besides debian/ubuntu but that was part of the initial design heh
<imbrandon> was to "work anywhere"
<StevenK> imbrandon: Right, so we need a regex, to just give us the hostname. I'm suspecting it already grabs that itself.
<imbrandon> yup
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% ./test-regex.pl "steven:lala@test.com:82"
<StevenK> test.com
<StevenK> imbrandon: ^
<imbrandon> killer
<imbrandon> i just grabbed a mtdew and doign a fresh checkout now
<jelmer> What's the severity a bug should have to justify an updated package in universe in gutsy?
<persia> jelmer: It's not about severity, it's about the class of bugs.
<persia> The general rule for an SRU is that it 1) causes data loss, 2) the package cannot install, 3) the package cannot build, 4) There is a severe regression from a previous release, 5) The package doesn't work at all (and this last is rejected in some cases).
<jelmer> persia, is this documented somewhere?
<persia> !sru
<ubotu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<jelmer> thanks
<jdstrand> jelmer: also for security vulnerabilities
 * persia notes that jdstrand is correct in the sense of updates to previous releases, but that those are handled quite differently in practice.
 * jdstrand was not referring to new upstream releases ;)
<persia> jdstrand: Isn't there a different queue, and different process as well?  I thought that uploads to -security were sharply restricted (although I don't really understand much about security patches - I usually stop at "here's a patch").
<jdstrand> persia: yes. they security patches/debdiffs for universe are sponsored by the security team, and we process them in our queue
<jdstrand> persia: jelmer's question was sufficiently open-ended (to me) that I thought I'd just toss that nugget out for him :)
<persia> jdstrand: That's what I thought.  Do you have a pointer to -security procedures to go with that?
<jdstrand> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<persia> jelmer: That may also be interesting to you, depending on the nature of the bug.
<jdstrand> jelmer: ^^
<jelmer> persia, jdstrand: thanks!
<jdstrand> :)
<slytherin> Does anyone know why libcommons-httpclient-java-doc is in multiverse even though libcommons-httpclient-java is in universe.
<persia> slytherin: GFDL leftovers maybe?
<persia> Possibly PDF with no source?
<slytherin> persia: Don't think so. Package is in main in debian
<persia> slytherin: It's in main now.  Was it always?  Ubuntu still has some multiverse leftovers from pre-warty days.
<persia> slytherin: Also, for some packages, Debian repacks to make it DFSG free, and Ubuntu uses the full tarball in multiverse.  (this may also not be the case for this specific situation).
<slytherin> right, this is not the case. The package is in Debian main since Etch. Looks like it was overlooked.
<slytherin> persia: And it is not 'dfsg'ified
<persia> slytherin: warty was pre-sarge, so I suspect overlooked is correct.  Thanks for chasing these: properly documenting free java is a good thing :)
<slytherin> persia: LP won't let me log a bug against a non-source package.
<persia> slytherin: Log the bug against the parent source.  The archive admins can sort it.
<slytherin> ok
<slytherin> Done. I guess pitti will handle it. :-)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<persia> slytherin: Today was pitti's archive-admin day.  Next week I don't think there will be any archive admin days (but would be happy to be wrong about that).  Likely the Monday archive-admin will hit it on the 31st (if they work that day).
<slytherin> No issues. :-)
<mruiz> archive-admin day?
<persia> mruiz: Each of the archive admins takes a turn processing the archive-admin bugs and the NEW queue.  Usually one day a week.
<persia> They all do other things as well, and may hit choice bugs when it's not their day, but the rotation helps keep the queues small.
<mruiz> :o
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<imbrandon> zomg , i've lived this sooo many times
<imbrandon> http://xkcd.com/349/
<geser> :)
<jeromeg> jdong: hello are you here ?
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey bddebian!
<Toadstool> how is it going?
<bddebian> OK thanks, yourself?
<Toadstool> bddebian: I am alright
<dholbach> hey norsetto_limbo! :-))
<dholbach> Merry Christmas and all the best in 2008 to everybody! See you soon again!
<mruiz> cya dholbach !
<dholbach> bye mruiz
<Kmos> dholbach: Merry Xmas!!
<dholbach> bye Kmos
<Kmos> dholbach: when you come back ?
<dholbach> Kmos: in two weeks - I'll read emails every now and then, but won't be on IRC
 * dholbach packs his stuff to visit his parents tomorrow and then be off to Austria to attempt to go snowboarding :-)
<Kmos> dholbach: ah ok =) thanks
<geser> dholbach: please come back in one piece :)
<pochu> dholbach: make photos and share them when you're back! :-)
<dholbach> geser: I'll do my best - don't worry
<dholbach> pochu: promise :)
<dholbach> see you guys *big hugs*
<nixternal> what is the easy way for me to merge a debian changelog and an ubuntu changelog? besides split view in emacs and copy/pasting
<cyberix> Please point out a bug in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=malbolge
<cyberix> Even a tiny little one.
 * cyberix is eager to fix it.
<cyberix> :-)
<warp10> I have a problem with a rules. It works fine, but if I export CFLAGS to make it doesn't build anymore
<norsetto> warp10: pastebin ?
<warp10> norsetto: here is the rules: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49210/ and the log: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49211/
<warp10> norsetto: it's for the tennix package you reviewed
<norsetto> warp10: its failing because it can't find the libraries anymore
<norsetto> warp10: at least the headers, there is no flag and perhaps the headers are not in /usr/include
<norsetto> warp10: can you check what is in the Makefile from upstream?
<warp10> norsetto: this is the makefile: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49212/
<norsetto> warp10: try this in the makefile CFLAGS="your flags" $(MAKE)
<warp10> norsetto: in rules, you mean?
<norsetto> warp10: sorry, I meant in rules yes
<warp10> norsetto: great! It builds now :)
<norsetto> warp10: yes, thats because now we export CFLAGS instead of passing it as an option
<warp10> norsetto: I see... I'll remember this for future packaging tasks
<sistpoty> hi folks
<norsetto> hi sist
<sistpoty> hi nors ;)
<sistpoty> hm... is there anything wrong with revu?
<sistpoty> (as in I don't get a page...)
<norsetto> sistpoty: seems to be down
<warp10> sistpoty: I was just uploading to revu and it looks frozen
<nixternal> ya, same here
<sistpoty> hm...
<Nafallo> sistpoty: kick it? ;-)
<sistpoty> Nafallo: trying to :)
<nixternal> I take it revu.ubuntuwire.com is tied into it as well
<sistpoty> nixternal: yep, that's an alias for sparky.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
<norsetto> oh cool, we lost all the comments on dad
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> that's cool?
<norsetto> nixternal: do you want to see me banned ?
<sistpoty> hm.. I can ping sparky, but not much else :(
<sistpoty> oh, so sparky *is* alive (ssh, ftp, http open)... maybe a ns problem of sparky
<nixternal> norsetto: I can ban you if you would like, so it wouldn't really be all that exciting :)
<norsetto> nixternal: for that I would suggest sistpoty's show on the snow
<nixternal> haha
<sistpoty> you must really misbehave... otherwise it wouldn't be a threat any longer :P
<sistpoty> (and actually I've got a movie, not a picture :P)
<TheMuso> Anybody with ops around to change the topic? Alpha 2 is releaed.
<norsetto> TheMuso: I thought anyone can do?
<TheMuso> norsetto: ?
<norsetto> TheMuso: I was playing with it and realised I could do it (ops ..) so I guess anyone can
* imbrandon changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Alpha 2 released. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
* sistpoty changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Matrix: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Alpha 2 released. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<sistpoty> oh, so can I ... *undoing the damag*
* sistpoty changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Alpha 2 released. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<sistpoty> +e
<imbrandon> :)
<sistpoty> imbrandon: isn't there s.th. like +t for the channel?
<imbrandon> sistpoty: yea but its intentionaly left open
<sistpoty> ah, k
<imbrandon> as with ops, been that way over a year now, maybe more
<imbrandon> so we can "self police" :)
<sistpoty> hehe
 * imbrandon jabs siretart, reboot revu
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> Oh I meant that for ubuntustudio-dev, don't mind me. :)
<imbrandon> TheMuso: umm no alpha 2 for us?
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> SOrry, i thought ops were needed to change the topic in here
<imbrandon> oh nope
<sistpoty> imbrandon: I don't think it needs a reboot... see the mail I just wrote...
 * imbrandon JUST got his new system togather
<imbrandon> woot
<sistpoty> imbrandon: aaargh... got s.th. wrong with my mail setup... still stuck in my cue
<imbrandon> heh
<slangasek> topic
<slangasek> hmm, where's that / key
<imbrandon> slangasek: :)
<imbrandon> mmm wobbly windows /me looks for the "off" button
<sistpoty> slangasek: btw.: thanks for offering help for the library packing session!
<slangasek> sistpoty: sure
<slangasek> will follow up to the mail thread sometime soon
<sistpoty> hehe, same as me *g*
<minghua> So we finally got Alpha 2 out of the door before the holiday season?  Nice.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Where's my poem? :(
<slangasek> Fujitsu: poems are for alpha1
<Fujitsu> Ah, damn.
<sistpoty> aaaaahrg... exim4's upgrade path is so horrible... forgot a change a few revisioins ago and you're doomed
<sistpoty> eventually, anoyone else could send a note to ubuntu-motu-ml that revu is down atm?
<sistpoty> anyone even
 * Fujitsu wonders if eeeXubuntu is actually from anybody Ubuntuish.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-22
<minghua> Fujitsu: The leader of the EeeXubuntu thing seems to a a mysterious person: http://forum.eeeuser.com/profile.php?id=2298
 * Fujitsu grumbles at lucas.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Why?  I think Lucas has a point.
<Fujitsu> He does, but he made it sound like this was an officially sanctioned derivative.
<Fujitsu> Akin to Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.
 * minghua has seen {,K,X}Ubuntu spin-offs in Chinese Ubuntu-related forums as well.  "A new derivative" seems a very common attitude among Ubuntu user communities.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Agreed on your point.  Lucas should have made that more clear.
<pochu> Don't forget the soon-to-be-announced {Eee}{k,x,ed,}ubuntu-Xmas-Edition ;-)
<Fujitsu> pochu: And then eeeXubuntu Xmas Edition CE.
<minghua> Do we get a New-Year version as well?
<pochu> minghua: why not? The more, the better ;-)
 * pochu hides
 * minghua starts gutsy->hardy upgrade.
 * Fujitsu applauds minghua 
 * Fujitsu upgrades.
 * StevenK doesn't.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Already running gutsy?
<Fujitsu> I haven't upgraded for a couple of days.
<minghua> "You have to download a total of 474M."  Hmm.
<Fujitsu> Hm, is this another Flash security update that I see, or is it the same one?
<minghua> Fujitsu: Ahh, I meant "already running hardy", but since you are talking about security updates, I assume you are running gutsy.
<Fujitsu> No, Hardy.
<Fujitsu> I see an Flash security announcement from Adobe on the 18th.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: same one iirc
<pochu> imbrandon: nice specs!
 * pochu envies your ram ;-)
<nixternal> UserInterfaceFreeze  <- whoever thought of that, kudos to you!
<nixternal> when is universe freeze?
<Fujitsu> A couple of days before FinalRelease, probably.
<nixternal> heh
<imbrandon> killer, did yall see this ? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=457371
<ubotu> Debian bug 457371 in dpkg "dpkg: please add the DEB_VARIANT build environment variable" [Wishlist,Open]
<imbrandon> pochu: thanks
 * persia wants "edit comment" in launchpad
<Fujitsu> persia: Would bug #80895 describe what you want?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 80895 in malone "Give people five minutes to edit/delete their comment" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80895
 * jonnymind is away: sleeping
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Nice!
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  Preceisely.  Thanks for the bug number (and for generally knowing all the Malone bugs off the top of your head).
 * Fujitsu only knows a couple of bug numbers, but remembers the keywords in the summaries of most malone/soyuz bugs.
<imbrandon> heh yea like the digg.com 2 minutes to edit the comment thing
 * pochu was angry while he replied to a bug report and typoed FYI with YFI, which in fact made sense as he was angry... :-)
<pochu> Luckily the reported didn't take it seriously but interpreted it as FYI...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pochu> Night bddebian
<bddebian> Hi pochu
<bddebian> Err gnight pochu :)
<Fujitsu> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
 * Hobbsee waves
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> ello Hobbsee and bddebian
<imbrandon> mmm time for food
<imbrandon> brb
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
 * persia cheers blueyed for fixing debdiff for native packages
<blueyed> You're welcome persia :)
<minghua> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> ...yay, motu ML
<Hobbsee> heya bddebian, imbrandon, minghua
<persia> Hobbsee: What on MOTU ML?  I only see MC bother.
<Hobbsee> sorry, MC
<Hobbsee> they all go to the same filter on my inbox
<persia> Ah.  Good.  Two would have been too many :)
<Hobbsee> yeah well.
 * Hobbsee should just resign or something.
<minghua> Hobbsee: Why?  Because of the MC decision?
<minghua> My gutsy->hardy upgrade claims firefox and openoffice.org as obsolete after the upgrade and offers to remove them.  Curious.
<bddebian> What'd I miss now?
<persia> bddebian: A spat about specific vs. general in terms of mechanisms to ask someone disruptive to stop, and what to do when they don't.
<bddebian> Ah, I can guess who that was about
<persia> bddebian: That was the seed, but the discussion has moved into other, more pointless areas.  That's the problem with multiple threads.
<persia> (not that Robert's Rules of order would work in email anyway :) )
<effie_jayx> persia,  I just checked the runghc bug and I hadn't received any notifications on email.. I am buiding with the changes...
<effie_jayx> should have a patch shortly
<persia> effie_jayx: Strange.  Are you not subscribed to the bug?
<effie_jayx> persia,  yesm I am . I found t odd myself
<bddebian> persia: :)
<Hobbsee> minghua: that, and wider issues related to that.
<Hobbsee> minghua: and the fact that i'm not doing uploads, etc, anyway
<minghua> Hobbsee: It would be sad if you resign.  But to be honest, I personally just care if you are still going to hang around on IRC or not. :-)
<Hobbsee> minghua: well, yeah.  as for that, i don't know.
<Hobbsee> minghua: i can ignore all of MOTU if i don't hang out here, and unsubscribe from teh lists
<imbrandon> wow intels new moble device looks alot like a ipod only bigger
<imbrandon> http://images.appleinsider.com/silverthorne-071221-3.jpg
<minghua> Good, nothing big seems broken after upgrading to hardy.
<Larose> I did a small module for linux, I would like, when "make install" is called, that the module insert itself into "/etc/modprobe.d". What is the best way to do this ? (cp foo /etc/modprobe.d?)
<minghua> Larose: dh_installmodules(1), perhaps.  You can also ask in #ubuntu-kernel channel.
<Larose> minghua: Thanks
<minghua> No problem.
<imbrandon> ok anyone semi familiar with licensing ( GPL ) , i'm not wanting legal advice but if someone knows about a link in lamens terms explaining the diffrences in GPL2 and 3
 * bluefoxicy stabs the 7.04 livecd
<bluefoxicy> failsafe terminal
<imbrandon> i have some new code i'm writing and would like to stick with GPL just not familiar with v3 at all
<bluefoxicy> LOADING GNOME
<bluefoxicy> stupid.
<persia> imbrandon: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/rms-why-gplv3.html might be part of what you seek.
<imbrandon> cool /me looks
<persia> imbrandon: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3.html is likely some of the rest of it.  Details are best left to careful inspection.
<imbrandon> right, basicly i want to avoid the situation that if someoen is using gplv2 only code cant use mine, i would like them to be able to
<imbrandon> infact in htis instance i might be better off with BSD or something
<persia> imbrandon: Then you have to license under "GPLv2 or any later version".  GPLv3 code cannot be pushed into GPLv2.
<persia> imbrandon: For permissive, ISC is really nice.  Gives more protection than PD, but doesn't block anyone.  Don't use BSD unless you've had a discussion with the Regents.
<imbrandon> ok v2 or later it is then, that was my major question
<bluefoxicy> unix systems are awesome
<bluefoxicy> the system is retarded
<imbrandon> ISC and PD ?
<persia> imbrandon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISC_license, Public Domain
<imbrandon> i rarely write my own code so i'm not well versed in licenses :)
<bluefoxicy> while true; do killall -9 $(ps -e | grep "\(gnome|nautilus\)" | awk '{print $1}'); done &
<bluefoxicy> so much for I can't kill anything because something revives it.
<persia> bluefoxicy: Better to make it not be revived, no?  That path leads to thrashing.
<imbrandon> bluefoxicy: just kill all of X
<bluefoxicy> imbrandon:  i did that
<bluefoxicy> then I logged in in failsafe Xterm session and it started Gnome
<imbrandon> heh
 * bluefoxicy also disables hal
<imbrandon> ok persia quick question i think i understand but just makin sure, so if i ( or anyone but using *i* here to make the question easy ) release say a single c file program ( just to be the simplest as possible ) under gplv2 or later , only *i* can redistribute that as v3 or can anyone ?
 * imbrandon thinks the latter but makin sure
<persia> imbrandon: Anyone.
<persia> imbrandon: Stepping back, what do you want from your license?
<imbrandon> cool, ok , but at that point its effectively forked as the new code cant go into the v2 version
<imbrandon> correct ?
<persia> imbrandon: Right.
<persia> imbrandon: I presume you want open source, and credit due.  Do you want copyleft?  If so, how strong?
<imbrandon> really i want it to be as permissive as possible without theft
<imbrandon> heh
<bderrly> bsd?
<bderrly> that's pretty open
<persia> imbrandon: For permissive, use ISC.  For copyleft, GPLv2 is good if you don't mind someone selling a device with DRM to prevent using the modified code, or GPLv3 in most cases.  In special cases, LGPL is appropriate (infrastructure code, deep libraries, etc.)
<persia> bderrly: BSD requires discussion with the Regents of the University of California.  ISC gets all the same benefits, but avoids the discussion.
<bderrly> wha?!
<bderrly> what is ISC? haven't heard of that...
<imbrandon> well since i'll likely at some point want to pull in others gplv2 stuff i'll stick with v2 or later
<bderrly> and i didn't know anything about discussing with the regents of ucb
<persia> bderrly: Basically, a cleaned up BSD without the specific references to the Regents of the University of California and a couple minor language changes to better match the Berne convention.
<persia> bderrly: Take a look at /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD to see why it matters.
<bluefoxicy> there.  Swap partition ELIMINATED
 * bluefoxicy swapd
<bderrly> awesome, i didn't know about /usr/share/common-licenses/
<bderrly> :)
<imbrandon> ok last quickie for the night, is there a list of "current" ( being the opertive word ) Source: section fields for debian/control as of 3.7.3 ?
<imbrandon> i'm guessing on the debian wiki somewhere
<persia> imbrandon: /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html
<persia> (assuming you have debian-policy 3.7.3 installed)
<imbrandon> you rock'
<imbrandon> yea
 * persia thinks people should look in /usr/share/ more often.  Lots of good stuff there.
 * bddebian rm -rf'd /usr/share to save space ;-P
<imbrandon> heh
 * persia finally understands so much :)
<bddebian> Oh ouch.. :'-(
<bddebian> Good one though :-)
<persia> bddebian: Sorry.  I couldn't resist that :)
<bddebian> s'ok, it was well deserved ;-)
<imbrandon> persia: mind adding to this list http://paste.ubuntu.com/2918/plain/  on the -dev metapackage
<nxvl_work> can someone take a look at bug 150036 and sponsor it :D
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150036 in dillo "Dillo menu item should be in Internet category" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150036
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: i'll sponsor it
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: thnx :D
 * nxvl_work *HUGS* imbrandon
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: done
 * nxvl_work *HUGS* imbrandon again
<persia> imbrandon: On which list does that belong?
<imbrandon> ?
<persia> imbrandon: persia: mind adding to this list http://paste.ubuntu.com/2918/plain/  on the -dev metapackage
<imbrandon> no i mean sugestions for the depends
<imbrandon> tot he -dev pacakge
<nixternal> how goeth those kde4bindings?
<nixternal> having issues with qyoto yet?
<imbrandon> nah qyoto was fine
<imbrandon> its the ruby mess thats killing me
<nixternal> ahh ya
<nixternal> you would dep on ruby, and it would tell you ruby wasn't installed?
<imbrandon> yea lol
<nixternal> ya, same crap building from svn with amarok
<imbrandon> i got it fixed i think
<nixternal> I think I had to go with 1.8
<imbrandon> yup
<nixternal> I need to make tty1-6 buffer a few thousand lines
<imbrandon> btw who uploaded amarok last ,Rid*dell and apache*logger_ ask me to then like 20 minutes later someone else already had done it
<nixternal> I hate scrolling up to find an issue, and it doesn't make it all the way up
<nixternal> I don't know who did it, I seen apache&laggers name on it though
<nixternal> apachelogger_: who served you homey? :p
<imbrandon> yea but he isnt core so couldnt have :)
<nixternal> speak up, or imbrandon and I go gangstah on ya
<imbrandon> oh well no biggie, just was curious
<nixternal> when it happened, JR was zzZzzZzZzzzZ
<nixternal> this is sad, i can't remember families birthdays, but I can remember uploads and versions
<nixternal> I need a life
<persia> imbrandon: 1) s/Pre-Depends/Depends/, 2) s/(= ${binary:Version})//, 3), s/devscripts//, 4) s/pbuilder//, 5) s/subversion/subversion, \n cvs, desktop-file-utils, debian-policy, lintian, linda
<imbrandon> k
<persia> pbuilder is Recommends: and devscripts is Depends: of ubuntu-dev-tools.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> desktop-file-utils ?
<imbrandon> i'm guessing for .desktops
<persia> imbrandon: Right.  It's default for Ubuntu/Xubuntu, but not for Kubuntu.  Maybe Recommends:
<persia> Also, for meta-packages, consider doing everything as Recommends: so that people can push things if they don't like them.  Even apt-get does Recommends-by-default for metapackages.
<imbrandon> ahh i dident know that
<imbrandon> the -by-default
 * persia may be mistaken: last review of apt source was > 6 months back
 * Fujitsu wonders why the Janitor now does changelog-closes-bugs messages.
 * minghua noticed that too.
<nxvl_work> i have a doubt on Bug 178046
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178046 in dillo "dillo failed to unpatch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178046
<nxvl_work> is better to change the patch or the rules?
<persia> nxvl_work: Likely the patch.
<nxvl_work> its a weird patch
<persia> The rules appears to be trying to unpatch, but the patch doesn't unpatch cleanly.  Something is odd.
<nxvl_work> it removes some files
<nxvl_work> --- dillo-0.8.6/ABOUT-NLS       1970-01-01 09:00:00.000000000 +0900
<nxvl_work> +++ dillo-0.8.6-i18n-misc-20070916/ABOUT-NLS    2006-05-16 01:21:07.000000000 +0900
<persia> nxvl_work: Not just set to zero bytes, but remove?
<nxvl_work> and under this there are only + sentences not even one -
<persia> nxvl_work: That appears to be creating a file.
<nxvl_work> and isn't it deleting ABOUT-NLS?
<nxvl_work> mmm, that file doesn't exist
<nxvl_work> persia: is there any way to check in what point is it failing?
<persia> nxvl_work: Yes.  Run the build manually (debuild -b), and check to see the status of the files at failure.  I recommend running that in a chroot to not affect the rest of your system.
<nxvl_work> can it affect my system?
<nxvl_work> same output as on the report
<persia> nxvl_work: If you run debuild not in a chroot, the commands in debian/rules run against your current system, and you must have all build-dependencies installed.  Once you've run debuild, go look at the status of things: maybe there will be some .rej files to help you understand how the patch failed.
<nxvl_work> yep
<nxvl_work> there is many .ref files
<nxvl_work> what am i looking for on this rej files?
<persia> nxvl_work: The .rej files show you what hunks of the patches couldn't deapply.  This may help you to understand the issue.  In the worst case, you might need to repack the patch.
<nxvl_work> mmmm
<nxvl_work> there are many + and - sentences
<nxvl_work> so, those can't be applied?
<persia> nxvl_work: looks like they cannot be de-applied from the report.
<nxvl_work> mmm
<nxvl_work> im not understanding i will google for rej files to understand them better
<nxvl_work> thnx for pointing me to them :D
<nxvl_work> maintainer notified
<persia> nxvl_work: Huh?  We don't really have maintainers.  Better to patch the package to not have the bug, no?
<nxvl_work> persia: the Debian one
<minghua> Pbuilder's command line is really fragile.  A leading space in the --mirror option gives cryptic error messages.
<persia> nxvl_work: We've passed DIF, so pushing the work to Debian doesn't help as much anymore.  Much better to fix it, and send the patch to Debian for later reference.
<nxvl_work> yep
<nxvl_work> i think so too
<nxvl_work> but maybe he can help :D
<nxvl_work> i will give a look tomorrow, now i'm to tired
<Fujitsu> O_o
<Fujitsu> What at packages.qa.d.o?
<Fujitsu> *ate
<nxvl_work> Fujitsu: huh?
<persia> nxvl_work: Maybe.  In these cases, best to try to duplicate in a debian chroot, adn if you can, just file a bug in the BTS rather than emailing a maintainer.
<persia> Fujitsu: New look for a new age?
<Fujitsu> It's so bright and LP-like.
<nxvl_work> persia: i have a debian system on a VM and it's there too
<nxvl_work> IIRC
<persia> nxvl_work: Great.  Did you file a bug in the BTS?
<nxvl_work> let me recheck
<nxvl_work> i'm unsure
<nxvl_work> why it shows me that error the 2nd time i run it, is there any difference between the 1rs and the 2nd?
<persia> nxvl_work: The clean rule doesn't properly restore state.
<persia> More generally, running debian/rules clean should return the package to the same state as it was when it was originally unpacked, assuming no manual adjustment of files.
<nxvl_work> yep, exactly same error, reporting
<nxvl_work> oh! so it is patching it, but no unpatching at the end?
<persia> nxvl_work: OK.  Please note that using the BTS to report bugs in Debian is the best way to tell the maintainer about an issue.  A fix may benefit Ubuntu, but a Debian maintainer generally prefers to get information about Debian in the BTS, rather than direct email, and usually prefers to only get BTS reports for things that would improve the package in Debian.
<slangasek> unless you're sneaky like me and bundle some Ubuntu-specific changes in with some other patches
 * Fujitsu wants some of the crack that the first responder to Debian bug #453620 is on.
<ubotu> Debian bug 453620 in qmail-src "qmail under public domain" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/453620
 * persia thinks slangasek gets a special pass
<persia> Fujitsu: Perhaps having a package in non-free has a special feeling for some people?
<Fujitsu> Hah.
 * Fujitsu notes we should probably push qmail to universe, though with 44 Debian revisions there could be something nasty there.
<slangasek> persia: I don't think it's a special pass, I'm just Cunning :)
<persia> 44?  I thought qmail was previously under a "do not modify" license.
<Fujitsu> I find it strange too.
<persia> slangasek: Maybe.  I still think you have a special "yes, that is the way to do it" certificate that makes it easy.  Anyway, wouldn't you prefer a BTS entry asking you to be sneaky than private email?
<slangasek> persia: oh, yes, absolutely it should go via the BTS
<slangasek> persia: even if the package maintainer is willing to accept patches by other means
<persia> nxvl_work: That'd be the Voice of Authority speaking on the matter :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Ahhh, I see. Debian can modify it because they only distribute source.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  That might make the maintainer correct that it doesn't apply to the qmail-src package then.  On the other hand, a qmail package might be nice.
<Fujitsu> The qmail source package only builds the qmail-src binary, but could probably now build qmail, right.
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, maybe.  It depends on the patches.  It might need a fresh download of the PD stuff, and then cherrypicking of the acceptable patches into the tree (perhaps involving license verification).
<persia> Still, it's not as trivial as just moving it to main (and thereby syncing to universe).
 * Fujitsu wonders what Kubuntu's lack of LTSness means to upgrades.
<Fujitsu> So not only do we have Dapper's Canonical-sponsored-LTS main and the community-driven-LTS universe, but also non-LTS subset of main... Yay.
<minghua> Does that also mean the only supported upgrade path for Kubuntu dapper will be dapper -> edgy -> feisty -> gutsy -> hardy -> ... ?
<minghua> :-D
<Fujitsu> That is what I was asking with my first question.
<Fujitsu> And are we supporting Dapper->L* for Kubuntu?
<minghua> Fujitsu: yes.  But there is also hardy -> next LTS upgrade.
<Fujitsu> One could presumably upgrade Dapper->Hardy, as upgrades are tested.
<Fujitsu> But once on Hardy, you can't safely get to L*
<Fujitsu> As that will be released after support ends.
<minghua> L* being the next LTS?
<Fujitsu> Assuming a 2-year gap as seems to be the standard.
<minghua> h -> j -> k -> l -> m, shouldn't that be M*?
<minghua> Ah, I missed I.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
 * minghua can't recite alphabet. :-(
 * minghua blame physics' convention of skipping vowels when choosing letters as super/subscripts.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
 * Fujitsu thinks that any LTS deployments of Kubuntu are going to be in a bit of trouble.
 * persia wonders where the "official no LTS for Kubuntu" announcement can be found.
<Fujitsu> persia: I found it linked from Planet, with a reference to the kubuntu-devel ML.
 * Fujitsu digs up a link
<Fujitsu> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2007-December/002066.html
<persia> Hmm.  I read that differently.  Looks to me like 8.04 dual KDE3.5 & KDE4, with KDE4 being normal LTS, and 6.06 users being encouraged to upgrade to KDE3.5.  I'd think it could be solved by providing a KDE3.5 -> KDE4 migration wizard to be applied at some point prior to the 8.04 -> 10.04 upgrade.
<Fujitsu> No, read the followups.
<Fujitsu> nixternal: Why is there an unfinished merge .changes in your latest sync bug?
<nixternal> cuz I forgot to dch -e when I was teaching....bad teacher ey?
<nixternal> hey, at least I taught him to dch -e though, but I didn't listen
<Fujitsu> The unfinished bit was extra - why is there a merge .changes at all? It's a bit odd...
 * persia is vaguely unhappy about the marketing efforts of a single sponsor having an influence, but doesn't do LTS deployments anyway, so stops worrying about it.
<nixternal> hrmm, ya...I copied changes..just noticed that
 * Fujitsu is thoroughly confused on how this will all be handled. main is defined by support from the Canonical security team, but after 18 months much of it won't be... upgrades are problematic...
<warp10> Hi all!
<persia> Fujitsu: From what I read on the list, it's just a matter of branding for Kubuntu, from the marketing team, and a complete lack of upgrade testing 8.04 -> 10.04.  Security should still be about the same, I'd think, especially as Ubuntu LTS users may well install kdebase for whatever reason.
<Fujitsu> persia: So it's LTS in some ways, but not others. These are yet to be properly defined. Great.
<persia> Fujitsu: It's LTS except that it's not called LTS, and the kubuntu-devel team doesn't expect to be chasing non-security SRUs after 18 months would be my gloss.
 * persia is not a Kubuntu developer, and so any statements are necessarily interpretive, and may not reflect any known reality
 * Fujitsu pities people who accidentally install KDE packages on LTS releases, and get themselves broken systems on upgrades that look to be supported.
<warp10> Argh... REVU still down?
<Fujitsu> warp10: I believe so; the server it is on seems to have died.
<persia> warp10: Looks that way :(  The admins have been notified.
<Fujitsu> And I'm not sure anybody has physical access at the moment.
 * persia suspects the hosting university is closed for the holidays
<RAOF> It seems a bunch of things are uninstallable, care of libgif/libungif fun.
<warp10> Too bad... ok, let's wait!
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Yep, the transition is partly done, and they conflict.
<persia> warp10: In the meantime, there's lots of packaging bugs available for consideration from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=packaging :)
<RAOF> Since libungif is unmaintained, and libgif replaces it, should there be a nice mass-bug filed?_
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Already done.
<persia> RAOF: There likely is.  Which packages are left?
<Fujitsu> I think it has caught most of them.
<RAOF> Aaaah, there it is.  At the bottom of the emacs22 bug list.
 * persia only sees icedtea-java7-bin left for hardy AMD64
<RAOF> persia: You obviously don't have emacs installed.  Heretic!
<warp10> persia: ty, bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu is always in a firefox tag :)
<persia> RAOF: My data comes from `apt-cache rdepends libgif4` and is not related to the presence or absence of any specific packages.  Anyway, I gave up on emacs years ago, in preference of telepathically adjusting the electrons.
 * Fujitsu binds his vi into a nice arrow, and kills off RAOF.
<Fujitsu> persia: Wrong way.
<Fujitsu> We're going *to* libgif, aren't we?
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Right.
 * persia goes off to play with grep-dctrl
<Fujitsu> bug #174252
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174252
<persia> Right.  There we have it.  It's just a build-dep swap?
 * persia notes that the "affects" list in the bug report is rather short, considering...
<Fujitsu> persia: That should be all that is necessary.
 * Fujitsu gets a list of sources.
<persia> Fujitsu: Explain why we don't need to do paul or mgp or mtpaint please :)
<Fujitsu> persia: I meant that to you `It's just a build-dep swap?' question.
<Fujitsu> s/you/your.
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  Sorry then :)
<persia> Has the library dependencies abolition effort gone far enough down-stack that it's worth updating these before imlib, etc. have been updated?
<minghua> Quick question: Is there a way to refresh my group information after "addgroup minghua foo" without logging out?
<RAOF> minghua: start a new shell?
<minghua> RAOF: Doesn't seem to work under hardy.  I tried "bash -l"
<RAOF> You should have the right group information inside that shell, thoug?
<minghua> Doesn't seem so:
<persia> minghua: Try a new terminal emulator with a new login session, or ssh to your bok.
<minghua> $ grep "^src" /etc/group
<minghua> src:x:40:minghua
<minghua> $ id
<minghua> uid=1000(minghua) gid=100(users) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),100(users),104(scanner),108(lpadmin),114(netdev),116(powerdev),118(admin),1000(minghua)
<minghua> persia: Checked "run command as a login shell" in gnome-terminal's profile, quit gnome-terminal, relaunch gnome-terminal, nothing changed.
<minghua> I swear the same thing worked in Debian before...
 * persia tries
<persia> minghua: Odd indeed.  I can replicate here.  ssh works.
<minghua> Aha.  Thanks persia.
 * minghua heads to malone.
<minghua> Hmm, what package should the bug be against, though?
<persia> minghua: The very odd bit is that `groups` is supposed to be `id -Gn`, but `groups` provides the right data, even without reloading the terminal session (which is different than in the past).  perhaps something related to PolicyKit or ConsoleKit?
<BiG_ALLen> Sup Peeps?
<BiG_ALLen> Any1 here?
<minghua> persia: "groups" doesn't work here, gives the same output as "id -Gn".
<minghua> !ask | BiG_ALLen
<ubotu> BiG_ALLen: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<persia> minghua: Interestingly, running `id -Gn persia` provides the updated output.
<minghua> Ah.
<BiG_ALLen> What do u do 1st when u start this game?
<minghua> persia: Yes, yes, "groups minghua" works here, too.
<persia> BiG_ALLen: find a bug you like, and fix it.
 * minghua straces id.
<persia> minghua: But that doesn't help the entitlements of the current shell :(
<BiG_ALLen> what does that meen...?
<minghua> persia: I don't see anything related to consolekit in strace.
<persia> minghua: I was just guessing wildly.
 * minghua is attempted to just report it against Ubuntu in general...
 * persia suspects it may get lost in that case, or someone may tell you it's not a bug report.
<persia> minghua: Perhaps start with coreutils: anyone triaging bugs there ought to know better than we where it really belongs.
<minghua> persia: Okay, since both id and groups are in coreutils...
<persia> minghua: That was my thinking
 * minghua is skeptical that coreutils bugs gets more attention than general Ubuntu bugs, though.  Let's see...
<persia> minghua: Likely less attention, but more likely to get attention by the right people.
<minghua> BTW Debian's "general" bug is cc:ed to debian-devel list, therefore has a high visibility.
<minghua> persia: Fair enough.
<persia> minghua: There used to be something like that in Ubuntu, but it was rejected as too much traffic before the migration away from bugzilla.
<minghua> persia: Yes, it's just too easy to file general bugs in LP.
<persia> minghua: True.  I realise I don't even know how to do that properly in the BTS (and no, don't explain, I'll likely never need to do it).
<minghua> Heh.
<minghua> Yeah, coreutils has two bugmail contacts. :-)
<minghua> persia: bug 178059 if you are interested.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178059 in coreutils "Strange behavior after adding a user to a certain group" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178059
<minghua> Feel free to suggest a better description. :-)
<persia> minghua: That seems to sum it up.  Let's hope one of the bug contacts has a better idea :)
<apachelogger_> nixternal: imbrandon: I actually thought Riddell did it ;-)
<apachelogger_> wasn't me, for sure
<nixternal> about time you spoke up
<nixternal> imbrandon is getting the bats right now, just for you :)
<imbrandon> hahaha nixternal shush
<apachelogger_> Oo
<nixternal> I thought he crashed though before you get it finished or what not
<nixternal> oh well, imbrandon he admitted to it, so lets get um!
<imbrandon> i was just curious, if i was *that* curious i could check hte sig on the changes file
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> brb
<apachelogger_> arrr
<apachelogger_> <-- needs a coffee
<nixternal> it isn't "speak like a pirate day"
<nixternal> I will too, looks like I am pulling an all nighter
<apachelogger_> nixternal: @amarok it's always talk like a prite day
<apachelogger_> or 'use as many unknown words as possible' day
<nixternal> also, amarok2 isn't building in svn for me, fix it! :)
<apachelogger_> honestly
<nixternal> I wouldn't doubt if there is an issue with the deps on my desktop though
<apachelogger_> I didn't have time to build for the last week ;-)
<apachelogger_> nixternal: what error message do you get?
<nixternal> I can't remember...I will tweak it up a bit tomorrow
<nixternal> I guess I am staying up for this kubuntu meeting
<nixternal> 3 more hours until the meeting
<minghua> Good, at least logout-and-relogin works...
<\sh> moins
<Lure> hi \sh
<\sh> now it's the best time of the year...no need to go to the office anymore...until 1st of Feb no need to do something for a living...and 5 Eizo FlexScan M1700 are waiting to be tested...
* minghua changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Alpha 2 released. | REVU is offline | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Unmet Deps time! http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/ | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<minghua> My understanding is that REVU is offline because the machine is down.  So I added that to topic.
<minghua> It would be nice if someone sends an notice to the mailing list as well.
<persia> Are we firmly expecting to stay that way for a long time?  I don't remember anyone saying it couldn't be fixed soon.
<minghua> Well, it's still down.  And it's been about how many hours?  8?
<minghua> persia: Feel free to remove it if you like. :-)
<persia> minghua: I've no issues with it being there, just curious if there was any firm feedback from those with local access.
<minghua> persia: ... or change it to something like "REVU is temporarily offline".
<persia> Personally, I'm not expecting much, given that it's housed in Germany, and this weekend is likely to be long and most people busy there.
<imbrandon> persia / minghua : siretart is hte only one with physical access and he is aware its down but not sure on an eta for fixing it
<imbrandon> s/hte/the
<persia> imbrandon: sistpoty doesn't have physical access?
<\sh> persia, siretart has
<Fujitsu> persia: He said he didn't.
<imbrandon> persia: no they are at diffrent campusus iirc
<siretart> imbrandon: yes, but I'm atm rather ill in bed, and I don't know when I make it next to the server room. sorry :(
<persia> Ah.  Different campus.  That makes sense.
<imbrandon> siretart: no worries, i was just updating them on the situation
<persia> siretart: Please get better soon (and not for REVU).
<siretart> it's the same campus, but sistpoty doesn't have access to the door for the server room
<minghua> siretart: Sorry to hear that.  Hope you can recover soon.
<siretart> thanks!
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> wow i'
<imbrandon> m  actualy able to run a vm
<imbrandon> now
<\sh> guys...if someone has still old SDRAM ... i'm in need :) I have still 2 old 2x PIII 1GHz servers and they need sdram :(
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Aw, your 200MHz weren't enough?
<imbrandon> so i can run stable on my desktop and hardy kubuntu and hardy ubuntu
<Fujitsu> \sh: I have a shortage here too :(
<imbrandon> been quite a while since i could do that
 * imbrandon quickly installs kvm 
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: hehe
<\sh> Fujitsu, 768MB is laying around here...so I could try to setup at least one of those...and trying to build a nice buildfarm here at home...;)
<imbrandon> this desktop is quite nice, i was suprised the 4600+ is only clocked at 2.7ish but still blazing fast compared to what i'm used to
 * minghua wonders if mailing SDRAMs over oceans is cheaper than buying it in local store (or second market)...
<\sh> ha...that's a good task for today...wife is travelling to helgoland and I have all the time I need to do some real work :)
<persia> imbrandon: Just out of curiosity, why the 4600+ rather than the 4400+ or 4800+?  I'd think the extra cache in those would generally be better for development-type loads.
<imbrandon> minghua: to you or from you, i'd imagine you could get it cheaper then me from what i've seen
<\sh> minghua, you know how expensive sdram is today? you can even buy ddr1 laptop ram for ibms very cheap but not sdram :)
<Fujitsu> SDRAM must be about 3 times the price of DDR2 here.
<imbrandon> persia: thats where the price break was
<\sh> Fujitsu, yeah
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  Makes sense.
<minghua> Ebay price seems to be at $25 / 512MB, which seems reasonable to me.
<imbrandon> minghua: quite, its far more expensive than that here localy
<\sh> minghua, check for GB modules
<minghua> imbrandon: Why?  It was just a hypothetical question though, as I know \sh and Fujitsu are both far away from me.
 * \sh needs 8x 1GB modules for those...
 * minghua has some spare SDRAMs at hand, but they don't belong to me.
<imbrandon> i have 1 or 2 spare but only 256mb size
<jeromeg> hello
<minghua> \sh: Makes sense.  I've never seen GB-size SDRAMs, actually.
 * \sh has in this very special moment too much hardware in his flat...
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i used to love it when i worked for a DC here in town where i got all the "old" hardware ( most of it better than the "new" stuff i have now )
<\sh> hey...if oyu have the possibility to buy from your comapny some eizos m1700 tfts for 35 Euros and there is still 3 years bring in service available...
 * imbrandon misses those days
<\sh> 175 euros for 5 tfts is not much ;)
 * persia doesn't have that many desks (nor pairs of eyes)
<imbrandon> heh
<\sh> persia, three of them are already sold for 175 bucks each :)
 * minghua didn't know that you need new pairs of eyes for new monitors. :-)
<persia> \sh: Bah.  Petty capitalism.
<\sh> persia, lol
<imbrandon> my setup at work is 4x 19'' lcd's , 2 on top 2 on bottom
<imbrandon> spoils me
 * \sh and his wife are having an expensive life ;)
<\sh> imbrandon, nice servicedesk :)
 * Fujitsu has 2x 17" CRTs at work, and a 14" laptop at home.
<imbrandon> \sh: yea, but i've actualy found the guys with 2x 22in widescreens have a better setup
 * Fujitsu is outdated.
<imbrandon> easier to use
<\sh> I wonder how I can determine the type of radeon card I have laying around here..without plugging it into a computer
<imbrandon> google the p/n
<persia> Fujitsu: Nah.  Small is not always bad.  I use a 4.7" laptop.
<Fujitsu> That's... small.
<imbrandon> wow
<imbrandon> i thought the 3epc was tiny
<imbrandon> at 7in
<persia> imbrandon: Nope.  That wouldn't fit in my pocket :)
<imbrandon> what kinda cpu and ports are on it?
 * persia dislikes the 7" form-factor.  Too big for the pocket, and too small for doing two things at once.
<persia> imbrandon: ARM, USB, CF, power, SD, serial.
<imbrandon> nice
 * imbrandon wishes those were avail in the US
<Supremus> hi all!
<persia> Of course, I should upgrade.  Fujitsu (the company) has a new 5" i386 with lots of goodies.
<imbrandon> ahh the lifebooks?
<imbrandon> err thats sony isnt it
<persia> imbrandon: Well, part of the lifebook range.  Yes.
<persia> No, Sony is VAIO.
 * persia knows too much about Japanese laptop brands
<imbrandon> ahh i have seen some of the tiny Fujitsu's here i guess we do have them in the US, just never seen a ARM one
<imbrandon> they are ultra expensive here though, like 2.5k USD
<persia> imbrandon: Fujitsu didn't have an ARM laptop.  Casio, Sharp, and NEC did.  Casio & Sharp are discontinued, and NEC is just waiting to sell out the inventory due to a special arrangement with NTT.  x86 is (unfortunately) the future.
 * Fujitsu would have thought that x86 would have significantly higher power demands.
<persia> Fujitsu: Less so with the new smaller low voltage ones.  These are the hardware that will become LPIA when available in other countries.
<imbrandon> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0275540
<imbrandon> thats the ones we have here in town
<imbrandon> other than the 3epc
 * persia notes that there are two or three N8xx competitors here, but they no longer use the clamshell form factor
<minghua> Are those CPU from Intel or VIA?
<persia> imbrandon: That's the big one :)  There's also a 4.9" 1024x600 model here.
<persia> minghua: intel
<imbrandon> IntelÂ® Ultra Mobile Processor A110
<imbrandon> persia: ahh thats the smalest we have localy, i could proably order something smaller
<imbrandon> we JUST got the 3epc's 2 or 3 days ago in-store
<persia> imbrandon: Maybe.  We get a lot of test products that never get shipped overseas.  Some are nifty, and some annoying.  In this case, I think the slide-out keyboards are winning over clamshells for the pocketable form-factor (I prefer clamshells)
<imbrandon> and only the 4GB white ones
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> yea i like the clamshell or tablet/clamshell mix
<persia> imbrandon: I'm happy with convertibles (that is what I have), but I don't like slide-out keyboards for taking notes in meetings.  The balance is wrong.
<imbrandon> yea it seems like a big phone at that point
<imbrandon> imho
<imbrandon> forfactor wise
<imbrandon> form* ugh
<imbrandon> like the Q*something* ones, are like huge phones or ultra tiny laptops
<imbrandon> but they slideout
<persia> Exactly.  Considering products like http://www.sharp.co.jp/ws/, I think all the Nxx clones are just over-big, and want a real laptop for a meeting.
<\sh> damn..what card is it...
<\sh> why can't I search for partno on the damn website
<imbrandon> it would be too much like right
<\sh> there is really no mention of the product name...
<\sh> just serial number and part number, and the last number should be enough to find out the product
<jonnymind> pochu: et al, hello.
<jonnymind> I don't remember exactly how should I state in copyright the fac that docs are gfdl 1.2
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> brb...changing graphics card...
<awen_> hi
<jpatrick> imbrandon: can you do a main upload for me? :)
<awen_> seems we've forgotten something... the apache 1.xx was removed from ubuntu between feisty and gutsy, but all the extra-modules is still present in the repositories for both gutsy and feisty ( libapache-* http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=hardy&list=relationship%2dDepends&arch=EVERY )
<awen_> shuldn't they be removed now :-)
<persia> awen_: We tried to remove most of them for gutsy.  Let's get rid of the rest for hardy :)
<awen_> persia: exactly :)
<persia> awen_: If you'd like to help, patches against the packages providing the old modules inhibiting the build of the old modules would be very welcome.
<awen_> persia: is that the way to remove them?
<persia> awen_: In most cases, yes.  Typically the binary package for the apache1 modules is built by a source package also providing apache2 modules, so removing the source package isn't the ideal solution.
<persia> There are some exceptions, in which a source package only builds for apache1, and these are removal candidates, but most of those should already have been tracked down and removed.
<awen_> persia: but should it be enough just building against the new modules, or is there other things i should be aware of?
<persia> awen_: It's good to test the result to make sure it works with apache2.  It's mostly just changing the build, as you've noted.
<persia> awen_: You may also find that some of them have open bugs for these issues, e.g. Bug #145571 for libapache-authensmb
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145571 in libapache-authensmb "[UNMETDEPS] libapache-authensmb has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145571
<awen_> persia: that was how i discovered them in the first place :-)
 * persia is somewhat impressed that the current unmetdeps count for universe is only 116 source packages
<awen_> persia: most of them ara debian packages that just is synced (no ubuntu changes)... do we prefer a upload for debian and a sync, or should i just make it a ubuntu patch?
<persia> awen_: 10 days ago, the answer would be "Fix it in Debian".  Today the answer is "Fix it in Ubuntu".  For both answers, it's best practice to work with the other distro to make sure the fix gets in there as well.
<awen_> persia: okay... so ubuntu patch for the quick fix... and upload to debian also for "the long run"
<persia> awen_: Sort of.  Upload to Ubuntu because at this point in release preparations, it's not worth waiting for Debian to apply it before using it: best to just fix it and find the next bug.  Work with Debian because Debian would also benefit from the work, to avoid duplicate efforts.
<persia> If there is an Ubuntu upload, then the package becomes Ubuntu maintained, so any fixes will be reviewed during the first six weeks of the next release cycle, and integrated if not yet in Debian.
<awen_> persia: okay
 * Hobbsee waves
<persia> hi Hobbsee.  Body count high today?
<Hobbsee> yeah.
<Hobbsee> fricking customers
<Hobbsee> dear customers.  if your meat is off, you do *not* feed it to your DOG!!!
<Hobbsee> and you do not cook your other meat, and then throw it out, and then call up, asking for a refund on both blocks of meat.
<Hobbsee> couldn't shoot that one, as it was via phone.
 * Hobbsee shakes head at the stupidity of customers, and about their poor pets.
<effie_jayx> persia, I have attached the patch. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/95985
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,In progress]
<persia> effie_jayx: Great.  At this point, the bug isn't "In Progress" anymore, and I doubt you still want to be assigned, as you're not going to upload :)
<effie_jayx> asigned to nobody then?
<persia> effie_jayx: Right, and "Confirmed" or "Triaged".
<effie_jayx> righto
<jonnymind> btw, ppl, it seems I'll have to update the copyright.
<jonnymind> I am getting developers :-)
<persia> ember: When something is fixed, please set it "Fix Released" rather than "Invalid".  Even if it gets fixed in a different way than you expected.
<jonnymind> anyhow, I dind't get very well the thing of shlibs.
<jonnymind> I have a package which ships a shlib,
<persia> jonnymind: shlibs is defined so that packages that build-depend on your package can have the right dependencies set.
<jonnymind> now, I am supposed to say in shlibs what is the package someone should link against that slib.
<jonnymind> of coruse... the package!
<jonnymind> *what is the package someone depends on if linking to that shlib.
<persia> jonnymind: There you go.  That's one of the reasons it's a good idea to make library binary package names match the SONAME: it makes the shlibs file easy to read, and makes transitions easy to see.
<jonnymind> Ah, so I can go with:
<jonnymind> libfalcon_engine.so 1
<jonnymind> and stop, right?
<jonnymind> pochu said it wasn't enough...
<persia> You could, but I'd encourage you to have the package be named libfalcon_engine1 so that if you ever move to 2, the transition is not as painful.
<jonnymind> It should be named 1-ubuntu1 afair
<jonnymind> let me see
<persia> Further, I suggest you want to list libfalcon_engine.so.X.Y.Z so that it links against a specific SONAME library, rather than a generic symlink.
<jonnymind> libfalcon-engine1_0.8.5-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<jonnymind> Oh, may I?
<jonnymind> Directions around are confusing.
<jonnymind> Actually.
<jonnymind> I had the impression they wasn't confusing, they was just confused...
<persia> jonnymind: man deb-shlibs.  It's basically <library> <SONAME> <providing package>
<jonnymind> the man says:
<jonnymind> <library name>        <version/soname>        <dependencies
<jonnymind> And the policy doesn't shine for clarity either.
<jonnymind> In my mind version and soname are different things, and dependencies are not what should be provided.
<jonnymind> So I got a bit confused about the topic...
<persia> jonnymind: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html#shlibsfile might help.
<jonnymind> Ohh, that's much clearer.
<jonnymind> Thanks.
<jonnymind> in the version field
<minghua> persia: A tangent point -- I don't think underscore is allowed in package name.
<jonnymind> i.e. "(>= 0.6.1-1)"
<jonnymind> should I put 0ubuntu1?
<jonnymind> i.e.
<jonnymind> (>=0.8.5-0ubuntu1)
 * persia defers to minghua, who has actually had someone certify that he knows policy
<persia> jonnymind: Right.
<jonnymind> Uhm... this means I have to do different versions of the debian/ directory for ubuntu and debian packages...
<jonnymind> fine, I have already thought at that.
<minghua> jonnymind: No.  The version in the shlib file should correspond to the ABI change, not the current package version.
<persia> jonnymind: You could do (>= 0.8.0-0) if you like, to work around that for now, but people in both distributions may find it odd.
<persia> minghua: Initial packaging
<minghua> There should rarely be a reason you need to put ubuntuY things in shlib.
<minghua> persia: Then there shouldn't be a version number.
<persia> minghua: Thanks for the clarification.
<minghua> (which, BTW, is the default behavior of dh_mkshlibs.)
<persia> No manual entry for dh_mkshlibs
<jonnymind> Ok
<jonnymind> I got the picture, thanks
<minghua> dh_makeshlibs, sorry.
<persia> Ah.  dh_makeshlibs.  How convenient :)
<minghua> persia: ^^
<persia> jonnymind: Don't do it by hand.  Use debhelper :)
<jonnymind> persia: I would love. But the documentation about its working is limited to "do this, and debhelper will create an uinverse for you".
<jonnymind> And all this "use deb-this-that" may be the reason there was so much confusion around about basic topics as creating multiple binary packages and naming shlibs,
<persia> jonnymind: When debhelper is installed, it installs heaps of manpages, for all the dh_* utilities.  In this case, take a look at dh_makeshlibs
<jonnymind> which are basically both simple and essentials.
<jonnymind> I did, persia, I swear. I refer to THOSE docs.
<persia> jonnymind: Ah.  I read that manpage as explaining how to autogenerate a shlibs file, but I agree, sometimes one needs to read the source.
<jonnymind> Mine is a *constructive* criticism, I swear that too.
<\sh> grmpf...I think I broke my aixgl
<jonnymind> I rationalized the problem: autotools as debhelper etc. are great tools for the routinary packaging work of the professional packager.
<jonnymind> take foreign software, automakebuildinstall it, pack it, done.
<jonnymind> You are not going to make a distro without it.
<jonnymind> BUT
<jonnymind> you have to know the logic behind.
<jonnymind> Programming courses are always "first do it the hard way, then use the magic function call".
<jonnymind> There's a reason.
<persia>  I expect it depends on how you learn.  I started with CDBS over auto-tools, and have been learning down-stack.  For my first work, the logic didn't matter, as I could see the results in testing.  As I learned deeper, I was able to fix more annoying issues.
<jonnymind> Doing a multilayered sh- compliant deb packaged is damend easy, and also conceptually clean.
<jonnymind> Yes, the point is that the docs around are a bit obscure about this fact.
<jonnymind> And when you miss the "context informations", you are 17 times less powerful than when you have them.
<\sh> did anybody tried the latest ati drivers with a X300SE card?
<jonnymind> (I was in management course once :-)
<jonnymind> Ok, enough complaining; I am packing.
<jonnymind> I am receiving this message by dput:
<jonnymind> Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
<jonnymind> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
<jonnymind> rejected by the upload queue management software.
<jonnymind> Would I be warned in that case or just the package would be silently discarded?
<persia> jonnymind: To where do you plan to upload?
<jonnymind> revu
<minghua> The message is from your local dput, it has nothing to do with what will happen on the server side.
<jonnymind> (currently uploading...)
<jonnymind> minghua: would I get an error somewhere notified?
<persia> jonnymind: Unfortunately, REVU is currently not working properly.  Note that this may not actually work, and if it does, your package may not be available for some times.
<minghua> jonnymind: Not for REVU.
<jonnymind> IC.
<minghua> jonnymind: And if it's a -0ubuntu1 version upload, that warning can be ignored.
<jonnymind> minghua: thanks
<jonnymind> persia:thanks, in fact the upload hung...
<minghua> persia: BTW, does REVU really check for duplicated .orig.tar.gz?
<jonnymind> Oh, well, I still have to write the docs and take care of my new developers :-)
<persia> minghua: No.  In fact, it needs the duplicated orig.tar.gz to work properly.
 * minghua admits ignorance about REVU.
<awen_> persia: if the libapache module have never been made apache2 ready, how do i then request a removal?
<persia> awen_: You'd file a removal bug, with an explanation of why the package is useless, and references to anything that replaces or supercedes the package, and pointers to some of the unresolvable bugs in the package, and push it to the archive admins.  If you aren't a member of ~ubuntu-dev, you should subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors or ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get confirmation and the sponsor will forward it to the archive admins.  You can check w
 * jonnymind is away: Sono occupato
<persia> awen_: Feel free to retitle/redescribe the UNMETDEPS bug (if it exists) when making a removal request.  This reduces bug volume, which is good, and makes sure older bugs fixed get closed, which is good, and notifies interested subscribers as to how it is being fixed, which is good.
<awen_> persia: too late ... but i'll remember that, when filing the next one
<persia> awen_: No worries.  Only took me a couple extra minutes, but next time would be appreciated :)
<awen_> persia: it's noted :)
<\sh> guys, when I prepare a new wine package...could someone be so nice and upload it?
<white> to debian?
<\sh> to ubuntu ;) I think debian uses a totally different packaging :)
<joejaxx> :P
<white> \sh: well i basically want to use wine from time to time to get stuff running, so make it happen ;)
<white> :P
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> \sh: you are not motu?
<\sh> joejaxx, not anymore, yeah
<joejaxx> oh
<white> \sh: why not, if i may ask?
<white> or is that a bad topic?
<\sh> white, bad topic...I don't want to boil it up again...there are a lot of stuff on the web because of this...
<white> ok
<persia> \sh: Stuff it in the sponsors queue.  It might be too big for me to build, but that's the best way to get it uploaded.
<\sh> persia, I'll make sure that's building on both main archs...
<\sh> we are already far behind the normal releases...
<persia> bluekuja: Please unsubscribe when rejecting.
<bluekuja> persia, are you talking about the rocklight bug?
<persia> bluekuja: Yep.
<bluekuja> persia, yea, oki
<persia> Also, I wasn't sure about Recommends: xmms vs Recommends: xmms-dev.
<persia> Supremus: Any insights as to which would be correct?
<bluekuja> persia, same here. It's what I just asked to him
<persia> (and why)
<bluekuja> in pm
 * persia likes to ask in-channel so we can all see, and so other interested parties can share their insights
<bluekuja> persia, agreed, Supremus: any idea?
<Supremus> persia, i think xmms-dev
<bluekuja> persia, Supremus doesn't understand english a lot..
<persia> Why?
<bluekuja> so he prefer to talk to me in italian
<persia> bluekuja: Understood.  If you want to sort it in italian, go ahead, but please share the results
<Supremus> sorry...
<Hobbsee> heh.  in itallian won't help most others anyway
<bluekuja> heya Hobbsee!
<persia> Right.  Italian would be off-channel, with summary posted before/after :)
<bluekuja> Supremus, why should we move to xmms-dev?
<bluekuja> instead of xmms?
<Hobbsee> hey bluekuja!
<bluekuja> persia, actually I don't know if Daniel posted xmms by error or by purpose
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, :)
<bluekuja> persia, the link posted in the report talks about xmms-dev
<Supremus> persia, in this link http://rimron.co.uk/weblog/2006/02/01/rocklight-rocking-your-thinkpad/ speak about xmms-dev
 * persia is reading, skeptically
<persia> That only talks about building rocklight "Building rocklight requires you have the xmms-dev package installed".  It shouldn't be required to run it.  On the other hand, rocklight is fairly pointless without xmms installed, so it should Depends; or Recommends: on xmms.
<bluekuja> persia, a comment says ". I didnât have xmms-dev installed. How did you figure out it needed that?"
<bluekuja> persia, plus it says "runs indepently from xmms."
<bluekuja> persia, so we don't need a recommend on xmms, in my opinion
<DarkSun88> Hi MOTUs
<persia> bluekuja: Yes.  It runs separately from xmms.  I suspect the comment is about building it.  Maybe Suggests: xmms ?
<bluekuja> persia, yeah
<\sh> I thought we wanted to get rid of xmms
<persia> \sh: We do.
<bluekuja> persia, so you would suggest a recommend on xmms-dev and a suggests on xmms
<bluekuja> persia, that's the final summary?
<persia> bluekuja: Yes, but Supremus has been working with the code, so I'd trust an informed answer over my brief thoughts.  I just wanted an explanation to "why xmms-dev?".
<\sh> persia, so xmms-dev is pointing to what nowadays?
<persia> \sh: xmms-dev.  We only got it demoted to universe for gutsy.  Removal is likely not until hardy+1.
<bluekuja> persia, yeah, let's wait his response then
<\sh> persia, thx :)
<bluekuja> persia, but reading upstream-only, I would move to a recommends on xmms-dev, but we'll see what to do
<bluekuja> if Supremus would mind to explain us "why?"
<persia> bluekuja: What is written that makes you think that?
<bluekuja> persia, just the intro, I quoted you before
<bluekuja> persia, "runs indepently from xmms."
<bluekuja> persia, it's not merely focused to its build
<\sh> brb
<bluekuja> persia, but to the program itself
<Supremus> why the documet speaks about xmms-dev not xmms
<bluekuja> persia, but, of course, I might be wrong here
<persia> bluekuja: Right.  That defends "Suggests".  I just don't understand why xmms-dev vs. xmms.  I'd think xmms would always be sufficient, or there would be a different bug in xmms-dev that it contained something useful for non-developers.
<persia> Supremus: I don't know that :)  Does anything in the code depend on anything only provided by xmms-dev to run (not build, just run)?
<bluekuja> persia, yep, let's hear Supremus about the code then
<bluekuja> brb
<Supremus> persia, I don't know...
<persia> Supremus: That's what I thought :)  Could you please investigate?  I think there might be a bug in rocklight, but I don't think we should upload a change just because somebody blogged about it.
<\sh> re...installing hardy a2 in vbox ;)
<Supremus> persia, ok i search info
<persia> Supremus: Thank you.
<bluekuja> persia, adding a comment
<bluekuja> about that and making it incomplete for now
<persia> OK.  I already unsubscribed.  Given that Supremus is currently searching info, I suggest "In Progress" as more indicative of the real status.
<bluekuja> agreed, commenting
<Supremus> persia, done
<persia> Supremus: Excellent.  What did you discover?
<Supremus> no..
<Supremus> persia, I have change the status... :D
<persia> Supremus: My apologies then :)
<DktrKranz> persia, during these days, I had a little time to test wxwidgets2.8 dfiloni prepared. I didn't notice any issues and it seems functional.
<bluekuja> DktrKranz, why don't we wait Debian for it?
<dfiloni> persia: do you think that is better to wait debian?
<persia> bluekuja: Because Debian hasn't for the past 3 Ubuntu releases :)
<persia> DktrKranz: Great.  Works for me as well.  Let's get it in.
<bluekuja> persia, yes, but there seems to be some new movements now
<bluekuja> persia, and I wouldn't diverge the two packages
<DktrKranz> bluekuja, Debian guys seems really motivated now
<persia> bluekuja: Yes, but it's past DIF, so I don't care as much.
<bluekuja> DktrKranz, yep
<DktrKranz> but persia is right, that package did not receive attention for more than a year
<persia> dfiloni: Did you get in touch with Vadim?
<dfiloni> persia: no...
<bluekuja> persia, anyway I don't support the idea of uploading it
<persia> dfiloni: Would you?  bluekuja has a very good point that we want to share the same package if possible, and Vadim is upstream, and very easy to work with.
<persia> bluekuja: It closes heaps and heaps of bugs.
<bluekuja> persia, what about sending a comment about dfiloni's package to debian?
<dfiloni> persia: from now to a month I don't have much time...
<bluekuja> persia, maybe we won't duplicate work
<dfiloni> persia: debian can't use my package?
<persia> bluekuja: Because Ron is special.  Better to work with upstream, who may be taking over in Debian anyway, if I read the debian lists correctly.
<bluekuja> dfiloni, you should have posted your intention to package it to debian's ML while ago..
<bluekuja> persia, yeah, agreed
<persia> dfiloni: As long as you're not in touch with Vadim, Debian likely won't use your package.
<persia> dfiloni: If you get in touch, Debian will very likely use your package, with the version changed.
<DktrKranz> persia, if I read it correctly, upstream is going to maintain new releases, isn't it?
<dfiloni> bluekuja: I don't read often debian-devel
<persia> DktrKranz: That's the current workaround.
<bluekuja> dfiloni, you should definitely...
<dfiloni> bluekuja: yes, I know
<persia> dfiloni: In this case, where you're working on a package that is being discussed on debian-devel, it's definitely worth it :)
<persia> bluekuja: With regards to ITP, wxwidgets2.8 has long been in Ubuntu.  I think it's not a mistake to not report an update plan there.
<DktrKranz> wxwidgets has to clear NEW queue in Debian, IIRC
<DktrKranz> *wxwidgets2.8
<bluekuja> persia, is there an ITP as well?
<DktrKranz> it is not available in their archives
<persia> DktrKranz: Right.  Last I knew, Vadim's version still had lintian issues.  dfiloni's doesn't.
<bluekuja> persia, in Debian
<bluekuja> persia, or a wishlist
<bluekuja> dfiloni, you should try to contact upstream then as persia suggested
<dfiloni> persia: but I'm only learning, I think that I can't help Vadim. I am a newbie
<bluekuja> and then report back here
<persia> bluekuja: I don't think Matthias filed one.  I conversed with Ron about an update in May, but we didn't get anywhere.  Ron believes 3.0 will be out before lenny, and didn't see the point of 2.8 in the meantime at that point.
<bluekuja> ah, that's why the delay is becoming huge
<bluekuja> persia, what do you think about that?
<persia> dfiloni: You can definitely help.  You have done very good work with that package, and Vadim is busy upstream.  If you help with the packaging, Vadim can focus on bugfixing, and we all get a better package.
<bluekuja> persia, should we wait 3.0 or package 2.8 as well?
<DktrKranz> so, Ron considered it a "transitional version" ?
<persia> bluekuja: We have an outdated and buggy 2.8.  I want dfiloni's updates, but haven't gotten around to adjusting my workstation to build them (or I would have uploaded 2 weeks ago).
<persia> DktrKranz: At that time.  I don't know his current thoughts.
<bluekuja> persia, well, as far as DktrKranz tested it out
<bluekuja> persia, it should be ready for inclusion..
<persia> bluekuja: pochu also did some testing, and I (with a local build: not a suitable build test).
<bluekuja> persia, the point is: should we wait debian?
<DktrKranz> Yes, I did some tests, but I'n not sure to have been that accurate
<persia> bluekuja: I don't think so.  Debian will likely get 2.8.7.1 or later anyway, and this is 2.8.6.1, so I don't think there is anything to gain by waiting.
<persia> bug #133888 for those not following :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<bluekuja> k, if all the developers, who tested dfiloni's packages out, are comfortable with it
<bluekuja> why not pushing it?
<bluekuja> ;)
 * bluekuja didn't have the time to build/test it
<bluekuja> so DktrKranz/pochu should report their thoughts now
<persia> bluekuja: I can't do a clean build.  pochu isn't ~ubuntu-dev.  Dktrkranz wanted confirmation before uploading.
<dfiloni> persia, bluekuja: I think the package is needed now, because filezilla requires it etc...
 * jonnymind is away: Sono occupato
<DktrKranz> This is the best period, nobody will notice its upload and we have plenty of time to find a hideout to bury ourselves...
<persia> Exactly :)
<bluekuja> persia, oki, so let's wait another confirmation then
<persia> bluekuja: Whose?  Why?
<bluekuja> persia, you told me DktrKranz wanted another confirmation
<bluekuja> so I thought he's not comfortable with it enough
<persia> bluekuja: DktrKranz: persia, during these days, I had a little time to test wxwidgets2.8 dfiloni prepared. I didn't notice any issues and it seems functional.
<bluekuja> but if he does, why not
<persia> bluekuja: (23:02:35) persia: DktrKranz: Great.  Works for me as well.  Let's get it in.
<dfiloni> persia: DktrKranz said " Yes, I did some tests, but I'n not sure to have been that accurate"
<persia> dfiloni: Do you not want it uploaded?
<dfiloni> persia: I want the package uploaded but if is certainly good
<bluekuja> persia, is the packaging-side correct>?
<persia> dfiloni: If it worked in your tests (maybe not complete), and pochu's tests (maybe not complete), and Dktrkranz's tests (maybe not complete), and my tests (maybe not complete), should we not get more testing by putting it in hardy?
<DktrKranz> at least, we didn't forget anything from the past
<persia> bluekuja: Looks clean to me.  Still some minor issues, but a huge improvement in packaging over the current version in the archive.
<dfiloni> persia: I don't know
<bluekuja> persia, ok, there seems to be some lintian warnings but we can ignore them
<bluekuja> persia, e.g images in a non-canonical directory
<persia> bluekuja: Take a look at the list from the current package :)  The new one is better (and yes, not perfect yet).
<DktrKranz> persia, probably it's not that harm to upload it, especially if we manage to resync with Debian soon (probably after getting a UVFe)
<persia> DktrKranz: No need for UVFe.  I suspect Debian will get something in before mid-February.
<DktrKranz> simply GREAT!
<bluekuja> persia, yes, agreed then
<persia> dfiloni: Please do share your work with Vadim so as to improve the package for Debian as well.
<bluekuja> persia, let's move on then
<bluekuja> dfiloni, ^^
<bluekuja> DktrKranz, ^^
<persia> DktrKranz: Please upload.
<persia> bluekuja: Agreed.
<dfiloni> persia: ok
<bluekuja> dfiloni, and congrats for the nice work on it
<bluekuja> dfiloni, that package is definitely a huge and hard one
<DktrKranz> dfiloni, bluekuja, persia. I'll do a test upload on my PPA to see how it behaves first
<persia> dfiloni: That's one of the most annoying and complex packages.  Please realise that your ability to improve it indicates quite a bit of knowledge about packaging.  You should be confident about your work when it is this good :)
<bluekuja> oki
<dfiloni> bluekuja: it's for you help and for DktrKranz help that the package now is great
<bluekuja> dfiloni, glad to help, you know
<dfiloni> persia: ok, thanks
<DktrKranz> bluekuja, "huge and hard" one is not appropriate. I think the best word is "f*cking"
<bluekuja> lol
<dfiloni> DktrKranz: lol
<bluekuja> looks fine as well
 * persia notes the CC, but believes superlatives apply (except maybe for iced-tea, or OOo, which are similar beasts)
<persia> s/CC/CoC/
 * DktrKranz obtained a CoC exception earlier
<persia> heh
<DktrKranz> wxwidgets2.8 is the first package by dfiloni, I'm scared when I think when he will move to something more complex...
<dfiloni> DktrKranz: wxwidgets2.8 is more complex than wxwidgets2.8
 * DktrKranz hides
<StevenK> wxwidgets2.8 == wxwidgets2.8
<StevenK> How can it be more complex than itself?
<persia> StevenK: Only for some values of wxwidgets2.8.  Take a look at the package history :)
<dfiloni> StevenK: the new upstream version is more complex than the previous because contains a new editor, Editra. Lintian shows me a lot of new warnings/error
<dfiloni> s
<persia> For instance, it became a lot more complex when wxwidgets2.6 started to depend on parts of wxwidgets2.8
<StevenK> I see.
<StevenK> Don't make me run screaming.
<persia> StevenK: As long as you never get involved with WX, you can safely keep the portion of your brain that must otherwise be excised.
 * StevenK chuckles.
<StevenK> persia: And how did your frontal lobotomy go?
<persia> Aside from a compulsive need to check to be sure that things were actually completed after completing them, I find that it wasn't really required.
 * persia notes that repeated traumatic levels of stress are indistinguishable from frontal lobe damage by current clinical tools, excepting when the damage shows in a MRI or ultrasound investigation.
<DktrKranz> dfiloni, have you a local copy of wxwidgets? REVU is down...
<DktrKranz> mine is lost somewhere I can't remember
<dfiloni> DktrKranz: no, I'm sorry
<persia> DktrKranz: There's a diff in the bug.
<persia> effie_jayx: Why would I want to sync peercast?  The sync package doesn't appear to have any improvements over the current Ubuntu package.
<dfiloni> persia: why wxwidgets2.8 bug is also in Baltix?
<persia> dfiloni: Balix is first in the "also-affects" list and gets a lot of extra bugs.  Most bugs in Ubuntu also apply in Baltix.  Baltix is a strange leftover from on older method of handling derivatives: the current practice it to try to share releases.  Baltix will likely inherit your package to fix it.
<dfiloni> persia: ok
<dfiloni> persia: thanks
 * pochu hugs dfiloni, persia, DktrKranz and bluekuja :-)
<DktrKranz> pochu, what do you do for christmas? I fear we'll have to escape soon
 * bluekuja hugs pochu too
<pochu> dfiloni: btw, if you don't want to maintain / take a look at wx2.8 in Debian, that's fine. But still, sending the package to them is a good idea. So they can take it if they want. They will surely appreciate it.
<pochu> DktrKranz: I'm staying here at Murcia (Spain).
<dfiloni> pochu: I'm wrinting the email whit a perfect english :D
<DktrKranz> pochu, we should really keep in touch with them, we should sync wxwidgets as far as possible
<DktrKranz> pochu, I'm going to north pole after pushing wxwidgets :)
<dfiloni> pochu: I'm writing email to Vadim to inform him about my package
<pochu> dfiloni: Great, you ROCK! :-)
 * bluekuja applauds dfiloni 
<persia> dfiloni: Excellent :)  Thanks for stepping up.
<pochu> DktrKranz: woha, make photos for us!
<pochu> DktrKranz: and agreed, it would be great if we could simply have the same package and work in Debian when necessary.
<bluekuja> I'm leaving, have a great a weekend everyone and have fun this evening/night!
<DktrKranz> or at least have minimal deltas
<pochu> you too
<bluekuja> ty, cya *
<Supremus> norsetto, hi!
<norsetto> Supremus: hi
<bddebian> Heya gang
<norsetto> boh!
<bddebian> Heh, hi norsetto
<norsetto> bddebian: hi there
<pochu> bddebian: don't change your nick! ;-)
<bddebian> Heh, hi pochu
<\sh> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi \sh
<joejaxx> hello bddebian
<joejaxx> pochu: what would he change it too :P
<\sh> bddebian is now know as TheFlash ,-)
<pochu> bddebian: you could be bddebian on Freenode and bdubuntu on OFTC :-P
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<bddebian> \sh:  :)
<bddebian> pochu: I tried that, that didn't go over too well either ;-P
<\sh> what about \bdf ,-)
<pochu> heh
<\sh> it's hip, it's cool and it's true ,-)
<\sh> and sounds a bit like a digitized copy of a book ,-)
<bddebian> How about \bfd? ;-P
<\sh> bfd like BeForeDying?
<bddebian> No, like Big F**ing Deal :)
<\sh> bddebian, no then \bdf...big ducking fool ,-)
<bddebian> hah, you got the fool part right :)
<\sh> bddebian, You are just promoted...to wine upload dude of the year 2007 ,-)
<bddebian> hah
<\sh> bddebian, just waiting for the i386 and the amd64 test build on this little system here
 * \sh goes and grab one of the old servers to setup ubuntu server on it
<\sh> hmmm..if someone wants compile a package for let's say dapper via PPA...the distro tag in changelog needs to be set to dapper, right?
<pochu> \sh: yup
<Ubulette> shouldn't libboost be all in main ? it's half in universe atm
<\sh> pochu, cool :)
<awen_> persia: ping
 * jonnymind is away: dinner
<imbrandon> \sh: or upload it to ~ubuntu/dapper vs ~ubuntu on the ppa and it will build it for dapper no matter what the distro tag says
<\sh> imbrandon, yeah, I wanted to test wine backports somehow...so I wanted to use ppas
<imbrandon> \sh: yea just use something like ...
<imbrandon> [ppa-dapper]
<imbrandon> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
<imbrandon> method = ftp
<imbrandon> incoming = ~imbrandon/ubuntu/dapper
<imbrandon> login = anonymous
<imbrandon> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<imbrandon> in your dput.cf
<imbrandon> obviously changing the username
<\sh> imbrandon, hehe..sure
<imbrandon> should work for all supported releases
<blueyed> Who sponsors uploads to restricted? u-m-s?
<pochu> Yep
<blueyed> Great. Someone should update https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-main-sponsors then..
<\sh> somehow virtualbox on emt64 trying to install an i386 distro doesn't work :(
<txwikinger> who makes th decision to deprecate a package.. or to replace it with a transitional package to point to a different package?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<DarkSun88> Any Motu here? I need a check of my patch.
<Cytrox> hey all
<Cytrox> can anyone here tell me how to get Ubuntu installed on a virtual os?
<Cytrox> or virtual HD
<Cytrox> soz
<txwikinger> !support | Cytrox
<ubotu> Cytrox: the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<Cytrox> tnx
<CyberMatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/178165
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 178165 in ubuntu "Sync Request inspircd" [Undecided,New]
<CyberMatt> tell me i did that right
<cbx33> hey hey peeps
<joejaxx> hello cbx33
<cbx33> hi joejaxx
<DarkSun88> http://packages.linuxdc.it/hardy/result/gap_4r4p10-1ubuntu1/gap_4r4p10-1ubuntu1_i386.build
<DarkSun88> Any MOTU that can explain me the problem?
<\sh> DarkSun88, yepp
<DarkSun88> Thanks Stephan :)
<\sh> makefile doesn't know anything about DESTDIR foo :)
<\sh> looks like that there some install calls which need to know about DESTDIR, or whatever it needs to install those files into the correct location
<DarkSun88> Ok.
<DarkSun88> Looking..
<\sh>  /usr/share/... is not writable for the pbuilder or buildd user in a clean chroot :)
<\sh> or it's just missing a make DESTDIR=<whatever> install
<DarkSun88> SHELL=/bin/bash
<DarkSun88> pkgdocdir=/usr/share/gap/doc
<DarkSun88> This is the path in Makefile
<\sh> yeah...look at the install target
<DarkSun88> 	install -d $(DESTDIR)$(pkgdocdir)/{ref,tut,prg,ext,new}
<DarkSun88> This.
<\sh>  yepp
<\sh> is it in the debian/rules file or in upstream makefile?
<DarkSun88> Checking..one moment.
<DarkSun88> That path has been included in Makefile upstram.
<DarkSun88> upstream*
<\sh> oc/Makefile:   install -d $(DESTDIR)$(pkgdocdir)/{ref,tut,prg,ext,new}
<\sh> doc/Makefile:   install -o root -g root -m 0644 fullindex.{dvi.gz,pdf} $(DESTDIR
<DarkSun88> Right.
<\sh> ebian/rules:   $(MAKE) -C doc install "DESTDIR=../debian/gap-doc"
<\sh> debian/rules:   $(MAKE) -C debian/doc install "DESTDIR=../gap-doc"
<\sh> that's the important call
<\sh> DarkSun88, try to change it to this syntax:
<\sh> $(MAKE) -C doc install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/gap-doc
<\sh> the ".." is not always a good idea
<DarkSun88> Ok.
<\sh> both of them....
<DarkSun88> 	$(MAKE) -C doc install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/gap-doc
<DarkSun88> 	$(MAKE) -C debian/doc install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/gap-doc
<DarkSun88> Right?
<\sh> DarkSun88, yepp:)
<DarkSun88> This change I have to do only in debian/rules?
<DarkSun88> have I*
<\sh> DarkSun88, jepp :)
<DarkSun88> Ok, thanks.
 * DarkSun88 builds all
<cyberix> Revu is offline because it is x-mas?
<\sh> nope...because revu admin is ill, and is staying at home, and after all it's x-mas
<jpatrick> cyberix: well, most people are out on holidays (taking a break from revuing your packages) ;)
<cyberix> :-(
<cyberix> :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-23
<awen_> i'm working on the libapache-mod-layout and making that work for apache2 ... what is the right way to rename it to libapache2-mod-layout?
<awen_> the important thing is that the old libapache-mod-layout doesn't stay behind in the archive
<crimsun> if necessary, you could file an archive removal request for libapache-mod-layout source+binary
<crimsun> I'm not up-to-speed on Apache/2 modules, however; you need to ensure that what's available in 6.06 LTS is available and/or able to be migrated for 8.04 LTS.
<awen_> crimsun: should you then make some sort of "migration" package with the old name?
<crimsun> awen_: you would need a transition package IFF that is the proper Apache -> Apache 2 migration path.
<crimsun> awen_: again, I know nothing about that migration; others here are more knowledgable regarding it.
<awen_> crimsun: do we know who might know that?
<crimsun> slangasek or persia
<awen_> crimsun: okay, thanks... then i'll just need to catch one of the some time
<joejaxx> wow nice
<joejaxx> virtualbox runs on os/2
<persia> awen_: If you can get the source to also generate a libapache2-mod-layout binary package, that would be a good first step.  The second step would be to create a dummy libapache-mod-layout package and test an upgrade from Dapper to Hardy to make sure that someone with apache + libapache-mod-layout gets a smooth upgrade to apache2 + libapache2-mod-layout.
<persia> awen_: If the smooth upgrade doesn't work, the dummy package doesn't help.
<awen_> persia: so i should keep the libapache-mod-layout as source name, but change the package name?
<persia> awen_: Right.  Changing source package names should be avoided when following the same upstream, to prevent another source NEW delay.  There will still be a binary NEW delay with a new binary package, so you might want to do the upgrade testing against a PPA or local repo before committing.
<awen_> persia: okay, i thought so... how do you make such a dummy / migration package?
 * persia wishes the apache removal was listed on http://wiki.debian.org/OngoingTransitions
<persia> awen_: In debian/control have a stanza for the now obsolete binary package that depends on the new binary package, with a description indicating it is a dummy package, and don't install any files in the dummy package.
<awen_> persia: okay, i'll do that
<awen_> persia: it doesn't seem that apache is made as a dummy package for apache2... do we know how that migration should work when upgrading?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> awen_: Not exactly.  I can't find documentation for that transition: it seems to be of the "apache is bad, let's remove it" variety.  Maybe we don't need the transition.
 * persia searches the ML archives again
<awen_> persia: okay... i also wondered why i couldn't find any other apache module migration packages, so you might be right :/
<persia> awen_: Digging through the mailing lists, it appears that different packages chose different routes for the migration.  According to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=429126 there doesn't seem to be a maintainer decision in Debian about the way to proceed with this package.  Maybe just bump the build-depends, leave the binary package name the same, and make sure it works with apache2.
<ubotu> Debian bug 429126 in libapache-mod-layout "please update/request removal of your package" [Serious,Open]
<awen_> persia: all the other modules has changed name to libapache2-mod* , so not to confuse people i think the name should be changed?
<awen_> source name remains the same of course :)
<persia> awen_: You may if you like.  My investigation of apt-cache shows that 2 in 3 packages appear to have made a binary name transition, and 1 in 3 didn't (yet many of the 1 in 3 now depend on apache2).
<awen_> persia: okay, i'll go with the majority then :) ... but it's good that we are persistent :)
<persia> The argument in favor of using the new name and dropping the old is that the obsolete packages will stay on upgraded systems and the system admin can schedule the apache upgrade separately from the OS upgrade.
<persia> The argument in favor of using the old name is that administrators will be upgraded to the newest version with no hassle (although the web applications might break).  Going with the majority is likely safe, as with the current two ways to do it plan, most upgrades will break.
<awen_> if just all chose the name changing path, it would be pretty safe to do an upgrade... might be something to warn about, as this likely applies to a dapper->hardy upgrade (LTS-2-LTS)
<awen_> persia: when the package is done, what should i then do with it
<awen_> ?
<persia> awen_: Yes.  This transition apparently needs closer investigation :)  If you'd like to look at what all 154 packages currently do, and send a recommendation to the ubuntu-server@l.u.c, it may be well received, and would be a good first step to making this a safe transition.
<persia> When you have a tested patch, submit it to the sponsors queue.  Look through "Preparing New Revisions" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for some guidelines on best practice and procedure for requesting sponsoring.
<johandc> Hi, i want to build a source package on my 4-way sparc64 server, but somehow dpkg-buildpackage is only using one cpu to compile. How can i set something like the -j 8 flag with dpkg?
<persia> johandc: You likely just have to pass a different value of $(MAKE) to debian/rules.  Someone did it across the Debian archive - might be worth searching for "Debian parallel build" to see if you can find their instructions.
<johandc> Ahh, sounds easy. I'll take a look.
<persia> johandc: Also note that some packages have Makefiles that will cause single-threaded builds anyway, so you might not get the expected results.  Further, some packages have Makefiles that assume serial build, which may cause FTBFS (this is the minority).
<persia> johandc: Ah.  `dpkg-buildpackage -j9` ought do what you want (assuming 8 cores).
<johandc> I just found that you can really just pass the -j8 option directly to dpkg-buildpackage. However, as you say, 1 out of 10 packages fail with parallel builds.
<johandc> Ahh i see, i have four cores, so that should be -j5 then.
<persia> johandc: Well, depends on the overall architecture.  numcores+numiochannels is the right calculation, but most people don't have multiple parallel IO channels in their hardware.
<johandc> Ahh, that makes sense :)
 * persia misses backplane servers
<johandc> Hehe, this is actually some old iron i'm reviving here. A Sun Enterprise 440-R with 4 Gb Ram and 4 300Mhz UltraSparc-II CPUs.
<johandc> However we depend on openafs, which has been broken for sparc64 for quite a while, so i'm keen to se if the new release will build :)
<persia> johandc: Ah.  I've just been chasing that sync bug :)  Changelog makes it look like it should.
<johandc> It also fixes a gutsy bug with 1.4.5, Russ wanted to wait for 1.4.6 which is out now.
<persia> I think it'd be better to extract and backport the patch to 1.4.5 if trying to apply to gutsy, rather than trying to upgrade.  Pushing a new upstream in a SRU has a very high barrier to approval.
<johandc> Build completed successfully on gutsy sparc64 without any patches!
<persia> Do you mean, no additional patches, or is upstream clean now?
<johandc> *Jumps happily up and down*
<johandc> I mean, i didn't have to modify the source myself. I could just get deb-src and run buildpkg
<johandc> Ohh wait.
<johandc> I still need to compile modules-source
<awen_> persia: interdiff has been uploaded :) ... halfway through all the old apache1.3 modules now, and a lot work generated for ubuntu-universe-sponsors ;)
<Fujitsu> awen_: Are you testing that they actually work?
<awen_> Fujitsu: only had one thing to upload until now, and this has been testet... the rest is removal requests
<Fujitsu> Ah, good to see them go.
<awen_> luckily the functionality has been moving to the core, or is avaible in another package already, in nearly all the cases until now
<Fujitsu> I will be glad to see http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=hardy&list=universe%2donly%2drelationship%2dDepends&arch=EVERY somewhat shorter.
<awen_> Fujitsu: yes... i've forwarded 9 of those to the sponsors since yesterday :)
<persia> awen_: Just a note: "I" used in bug descriptions is not very informative, especially when added by someone other than the bug submitter :)
<awen_> persia: you have a point there :) ... normally i just add notes, didn't really think of that
<awen_> persia: when doing a new upstream release should the source package then be included, or is it enough with the interdiff?
<persia> awen_: As long as the package has a working watch file or get-orig-source rule, the interdiff is sufficient.
<awen_> persia: it sounds like i need to provide the source also
<persia> awen_: Which package?  Let's look at a specific case, which can then be abstracted for the future general case.
<awen_> bug 145528
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145528 in libapache-mod-layout "[UNMETDEPS] libapache-mod-layout has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145528
<persia> awen_: In this case, you would want to add a watch file to your candidate package.  This is especially important, as the download URL identified in debian/copyright is no longer valid, so the package does not currently identify the upstream source correctly.
<awen_> shouldn't the link in the copyright file be changed then?
<persia> awen_: Yes.  To restore the upstream indicator, in addition to the new upstream version, you'll want to update debian/copyright and add a watch file.
<awen_> persia: what should the watch file contain... do you have an example/description?
<persia> awen_: Man uscan for a description. Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch for a discussion.
<persia> awen_: I've reassigned the bug to you.  Please unassign, and push back to the sponsors queue when you've fixed that.
<awen_> persia: okay, i'll have a look at that
<persia> awen_: Thanks.
<awen_> persia: what does the version=3 mean in the guide?
<persia> awen_: watch file syntax version 3.  The current standard.
<CyberMatt> Just so everybody knows i'm busy with the th holidays and that and I probably won't be active that much until December 28 and if this message goes anywhere where it not wanted i apologize
<awen_> persia: now these original source packages contains a folder with the same name as the tar-gz file instead of just having the contents in the root of the archive... anything you should be aware of there?
<persia> awen_: dpkg should be smart enough to handle that.
<awen_> persia: okay :)
<awen_> persia: just to be 100% sure now... do we start with *-0ubuntu0 or *-0ubuntu1 as initial version*-0ubuntu0
<awen_> persia: just to be 100% sure now... do we start with *-0ubuntu0 or *-0ubuntu1 as initial version?
<persia> "-0ubuntu1" meaning "Debian Revision 0", "Ubuntu Revision 1".  Since Debian always starts with revision 1, this makes it safe to merge or sync if Debian is updated.
<awen_> persia: i was correct then :)
<nenolod> are we in DebianImportFreeze yet?
<persia> nenolod: Yes.
<nenolod> fghgds.
<persia> nenolod: Why fghgds?
<nenolod> can someone import inspircd and upse from debian unstable? (there is a sync bug for inspircd, but there's nothing to sync for either package.)
<nenolod> they both compile fine under hardy and introduce no new major problems
<persia> nenolod: How do you mean "nothing to sync for either package"?
<nenolod> persia, nothing in ubuntu to merge. ;)
<persia> nenolod: Ah.  Right.  Do they provide any interesting features or fix any outstanding bugs?
<nenolod> persia, they are new packages. inspircd provides a more modernized ircd package than what ubuntu presently offers, and upse provides a better PSX module player than what modplug provides in audacious.
<persia> nenolod: OK.  That sounds useful.  Each one just needs a sync request bug.  Subscribe the universe sponsors for new stuff in universe.  They'll likely get pushed to the archive admins with a minimum of fuss, but the archive admins might be a bit about pulling them: I don't believe there are any manual queue processing days scheduled for next week.
<nenolod> right.
<nenolod> persia, i'll fix the one sync request bug and create one for upse then.
<persia> nenolod: Thanks.
<persia> nenolod: Since we're past DIF, it's a good idea to summarize why the package should be in hardy at the top of the sync request bug (above the Debian changelog).
<nenolod> persia, hmm. it won't let me select an arbitrary sourcepackagename
<persia> nenolod: File requests for new packages against Ubuntu with a summary like "Please sync foo version-revision into universe from Debian unstable (main)"
<persia> (no source package: just https;//bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<persia> )
<nenolod> oh, ok. :)
<joejaxx> nice
 * joejaxx just wrote a nice little script to download fedora source archives :)
<persia> joejaxx: Does it have a function to automatically compare patches against Ubuntu, and generate a new patch set as a candidate application for an updated revision?
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> but i can probably add that
<joejaxx> this is for packages that are not in ubuntu
<persia> joejaxx: That'd be fairly cool.
<joejaxx> as it is a process to get source from fedora at the moment
<joejaxx> i will write that up tomorrow
<joejaxx> the feature you requested that is
<persia> For packages not in Ubuntu, it's likely also very interesting, but then my wishlist enhancement would be to automatically generate a candidate Debian-format package from the source.
<persia> joejaxx: Cool.  Thanks :)
<joejaxx> you are most welcome :)
<joejaxx> haha import.ubunt.com :P
<joejaxx> ubuntu*
<joejaxx> oh whoops i need to build this in a hardy chroot
<persia> joejaxx: Exactly what I was thinking.  Having a list of packages in Fedora, SuSE, etc. that aren't in Ubuntu, with candidates ready for review would be a nice step along the path to world domination.
<joejaxx> yeap
<joejaxx> should be very interesting
<joejaxx> persia: it is funny
<joejaxx> i am always scripting something
<joejaxx> like i created a crawler for launchpad to retrieve build logs for packages
<joejaxx> lol
<persia> joejaxx: You know about http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ right?
<joejaxx> since there was not an easy way to do that
<joejaxx> sure
<minghua> Interesting idea indeed.  Although it's probably going to be a bit problematic with different package names for the same software...
<joejaxx> but i wanted the actual build logs
<persia> minghua: Surely.
<joejaxx> and no one could point me to a central place for them
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> so i just run lp-crawl buildlogs distro <pkgname>
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> minghua: alias list
<joejaxx> an alias list*
<imbrandon> with 20k+ aliases :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: lolol
<imbrandon> heya joejaxx
<persia> joejaxx: Part of the issue is that an alias list is insufficient, due to differences in how packages are split.
<joejaxx> persia: you can get around that :)
<joejaxx> imbrandon: hello
<minghua> persia: If it's done on source package level, splitting is probably not a big deal.
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> gaahhh
<joejaxx> no
<joejaxx> fedora uses python :(
<Fujitsu> ... is that a problem?
<joejaxx> it means i have to package a python package now
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> it stinks
<joejaxx> :\
<joejaxx> anyone have a tutorial on packaging python apps?
<joejaxx> :\
<joejaxx> or a link to the policy rather
<persia> nenolod: Better to redescribe/retitle a bug than file a new one and mark a duplicate.  Very few submitters ever complain about someone hijacking their bug.
<Fujitsu> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy, I think.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: ok
<persia> minghua: Yes, for most cases source package splits are more similar than binary package splits, but there are exceptions, even there.
 * minghua needs to learn python packaging as well.
<nenolod> persia, the comments lead me to believe that the inspircd bug may have been entirely incorrect, so i decided to start from scratch. sorry. :P
<joejaxx> we use python-central in ubuntu right?
<joejaxx> i have seen that in packages
<persia> nenolod: Understood.  More than anything, the comments appeared to me to be a request for the changelog, etc.  Doesn't really matter, except that it increases bug churn.
<persia> joejaxx: Either python-central or python-support, as you like.
<joejaxx> this should be interesting
<joejaxx> it should be funny packaging a package that is in a language that i do not know
<joejaxx> lol
 * joejaxx goes to read python debian policy
 * minghua notes that there is a /usr/share/doc/python-dev/python-policy.html/ directory.
<awen_> persia: a new interdiff of mod_layout is ready... thanks for all the help and good night :)
<persia> awen_: Excellent.  Good night, and thanks for working through those: hardy apache will be less confusing in part due to your efforts.  Please be sure to unassign yourself and resubscribe the sponsors queue to get it uploaded.
<awen_> persia: thanks... and it's already done
<minghua> Hmm, so ubuntu-keyring package is actually ubuntu-ARCHIVE-keyring...
<persia> minghua: Right, because of the no-binary-uploads thing.
<minghua> persia: Eh?  How is that related?
<minghua> I just want to have a keyring of all (core) developers' keys.
<persia> minghua: Because all builds are signed by the archive, there's no need to pass the developer keyring to end-users (or at least that was the thought).
<persia> For keyrings for a specific LP group, there's a script.  I'll try to find the source...
 * minghua thinks persia is wrong, but let my check first.
<minghua> persia: Don't bother, I don't really need it.
<persia> minghua: OK.
<minghua> persia: No, you are wrong.  The source packages (.dsc) is still signed by the uploader.
<minghua> persia: And in both Debian and Ubuntu, the signature for the binary package is not publicly visible anyway (they are in the .changes files in Debian).
<persia> minghua: I still believe I'm right that the justification for not including all the keys in the keyring was because of the no binary uploads.  I don't have a strong opinion about whether this is correct or not.
<minghua> persia: Debian has the DDs' keys in a keyring package so that people can check the source packages.
<minghua> persia: In Debian the authentication of binary packages are done on APT level instead of the individual package level.
<minghua> persia: So I don't see it related to binary upload in any way.
<persia> minghua: Maybe I'm wrong then.  Anyway, the source I thought would do it actually pulls the SSH keys, which doesn't help you.
<Fujitsu> persia: REVU has a script to do it.
<minghua> persia: Thanks anyway.  What I was really looking for is actually debian-keyring, which is useful when pulling Debian packages.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks
<persia> minghua: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk/annotate/sistpoty%40ubuntu.com-20071209131716-o9h8b78c3kg2etaz?file_id=revukey-20060622101810-953d1fd4f9521e28 ought to be a good place to start if you want a keyring for a given LP group.
<persia> Or maybe http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk/annotate/sistpoty%40ubuntu.com-20071209131716-o9h8b78c3kg2etaz?file_id=fetchlaunchpadkeys.py-20060622101814-d24e46fc40cf5420
<minghua> persia: Thanks.
<warp10> Hi all!
<Fjodor> Hi all. Is there a channel for backports, and if not, would this be the place?
<crimsun> I don't know of one, but perhaps jdong or imbrandon does?
<Hobbsee> jdong: ping.  backports questoin
<crimsun> (otherwise, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#head-37a793d5ee480081f1c9f19e07fcdcdae5e6a9ed if you're interested in requesting a new one.)
<jdong> I'm alive
<jdong> sup?
<Fjodor> Actually, I'm not sure if I have asked before (bad wetware memory), but I requested it on launchpad (no response yet), and just wanted to hear if there was anyone I could ping, since I'm idling at the keyboard anyways :-)
<jdong> yeah, I was encased in exam season the past few weeks
<jdong> if you've filed a lp bug please link to it and I'll take a look right now
<Fjodor> Anyways, just wondered about compiz things. Recent stuff seems to be backported, except for compizconfig-settings-manager
<Fjodor> jdong: Excellent. I'll go find it :-)
<Fjodor> jdong: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/175450
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175450 in gutsy-backports "Please backport compizconfig-settings-manager" [Undecided,New]
<Fjodor> And I've had my share of exam stress as well, which might account for my lack of memory of much else, so I can sympathise :-)
<jdong> Fjodor: mvo performed the compiz backport, I'd try to check with him or Amaranth or some other compiz know-it-all to see if this is compatible with Gutsy
<jdong> Fjodor: I don't feel confident enough to approve it off the bat.
<Hobbsee> jdong: it should be.  and if not, it's only backports.
<Hobbsee> <eg>
<Fjodor> mvo or or Amaranth. Got it. Thanks :-)
<Fjodor> Amaranth: ping?
<Hobbsee> *cough*flashplugin-nonfree*cough*
 * Hobbsee doubts they're here, this close to christmas
<jdong> Hobbsee: :)
<Hobbsee> !jdong | jdong
<ubotu> jdong: <Hobbsee> jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<Fjodor> Hobbsee: Ok, I'll take your word for it since you most probably know them better. Just noticed that Amaranth at least had an account online ;-)
<Hobbsee> this is true
<jdong> Fjodor: he always has an account online :)
<crimsun> flashplugin-nonfree was removed from -proposed, at least
<crimsun> (I haven't followed the rationale, but I presume it makes sense.)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i meant last time
<Fujitsu> Flash never makes sense, silly crimsun.
<Fjodor> jdong: Naturally :-)
<crimsun> I dunno, it makes plenty of sense to me.  I just avoid it.  :)
 * persia notes that flashplugin-nonfree was removed from -proposed because it broke konqueror (segfaults), and points at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-December/024877.html for discussion
<crimsun> persia: right, thanks.
<Hobbsee> meh.  who uses konq to browse flash anyway?
<persia> Hobbsee: Anyone with local flash content?
<Hobbsee> doesn't work wiht firefox?
 * persia thought konq attempted to render thumbnails in local windows, and crashing wouldn't be ideal.
 * Hobbsee doesn't use konq for anything more than file browsing, and kioslaves
<Hobbsee> for http/https, i use firefox.
<persia> Hobbsee: *local* flash :)
<Hobbsee> yeah, but still
<Hobbsee> why would you have *local* flash anyway?
<persia> Hobbsee: Maybe you saved something nifty?  Maybe you're a flash developer?  Maybe you need to preview things before they go live?  Lots of use cases.
<Hobbsee> 1. possible.  2&3: madness.  take out and shoot.
<Fjodor> Hobbsee: For some odd reason that I can't pinpoint exactly, you just earned a smiley-face in my little black book :-P
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
 * Hobbsee earns doom-worthy things - not smiley faces.
 * persia gives Hobbsee a smiley face of doom
<Fjodor> Hobbsee: Those would probably also amount to positive notes in my book, but then again, I'm somewhat twisted ;-)
 * Hobbsee DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMS persia
 * ScottK2 uses Konqueror for web browsing all the time.
<minghua> Hmm, perl 5.10.
<Amaranth> Fjodor, jdong: None of the compiz stuff in hardy can be backported
<Amaranth> We did an update that was compatible with gutsy just so we could do a backport before breaking compatibility, i guess ccsm didn't have any interesting changes
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> Amaranth: any idea what causes the "white" screen when compiz is enabled and user switching is used?
<Amaranth> imbrandon: nvidia sucks
<imbrandon> i did a little searching but only came up with "turn copmiz off"
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> Amaranth: true true, any work arrounds you know about ?
<Amaranth> If you create a texture after you do a VT switch away from the X server the texture gets no memory allocated
<Amaranth> in this case the texture is the fullscreen gnome-screensaver window so it looks like a blank white screen
<Amaranth> you can blindly type your password though :P
<imbrandon> yea , this is for my father-in-law though
<imbrandon> heh
<Amaranth> Nope, I just make sure IRC isn't my active window before switching then blindly type my password
<imbrandon> on my system i just dont use user switching
<Amaranth> Otherwise your choices are don't have a screensaver or don't use compiz
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> ahh, alt+s also works too fyi
<imbrandon> re-brings up the gdm window
<Amaranth> sure, alt-s is the shortcut for switch user on the lock screen :)
<imbrandon> okies anyhow i just had him turn window effects off, that seems to work for now
<imbrandon> hes almost 70 and dosent really use the eye candy anyhow
<imbrandon> as long as he has frostwire + amarok he's happy :)
<imbrandon> well and evolution, i've never seen someone send out so much "junk" that wasent spam
<imbrandon> lol
<Amaranth> hehe
<imbrandon> you know the "FW: FW: FWD: ..." jokes anyone thats been on the net more than 6 months has probably seen 1000 too many of
<imbrandon> ugh
<Amaranth> oh man i still get those from my grandmother
<StevenK> imbrandon: Where in apt-mirror should I be looking to fix this :80 thing?
<imbrandon> yea i pipe them all to a folder then he wonders why on the off chance he sends me a "regular message" i dont see it for a week ( about the time i glance in the folder )
<imbrandon> StevenK: um 2 places, the main one "arround" line 380ish , lemmme look exactly
<imbrandon> the second would be the clean.sh generation
<imbrandon> StevenK: sub proceed_index_gz  ( line 367 in my copy but i have a few local only changes )
<imbrandon> so might not be exact
<StevenK> get_variable("mirror_path") should DTRT
<StevenK> Wait, mirror_path is the wrong place
<imbrandon> well yea but then it appends the $path thats actualy a mangled uri
<imbrandon> that should end up host.name.com striped
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> somehow the ssl support for wine32 on x86_64 doesn't work...I think it doesn't catch up with the libssl from ia32-libs
<imbrandon> wine is actauly working on *64 now ?
<imbrandon> cool
<\sh> imbrandon, since gutsy afaik...we are building wine with 32bit on amd64
<imbrandon> ahh cool, i havent really tried x86_64 since edgy, just ran 32bit
<imbrandon> other than the ocasional test in a vm
<imbrandon> i'd be really cool if we ( e.g. debian based distros ) got real bi-arch support
<\sh> well, there is a problem not having libssl support, e.g. icrap from bitten peach will fail
<imbrandon> ouch
<\sh> but only on x86_64
<imbrandon> anything higher than iTunes 4.7 working ?
<\sh> and as I'm the fcker who took the change to update 0.9.46 to 0.9.51 I have to fix it ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<\sh> s/change/chance/
<imbrandon> i barely can use wine, let alone debug problems with it :) but if i can help lemme know
<\sh> imbrandon, dunno...I'll test it later on when I find the solution for the problem
<imbrandon> k
<\sh> imbrandon, no one can debug problems in wine...wine is da problem ;)
<imbrandon> yea latests iTunes and Photoshop are the only things in my windows VM anymore
<imbrandon> and PS works fine, i've just been too lazy to install it
<imbrandon> in wine
<imbrandon> s/install/reinstall
<imbrandon> esp since persia or someone pointed me to pdfedit , no more need for acrobat
<imbrandon> :)
<\sh> hmm...I never used anything to create pdfs then ooffice...that's enough for CVs and stupid people wanting pdf or .doc files for their inbox instead of plain ascii
<imbrandon> StevenK: hrm seems the first replace makes $path empty
<imbrandon> StevenK: one sec
<\sh> catching another coffee
<imbrandon> \sh: yea , i mostly need it to edit existing pdfs arround the office, instead of make new ones, afaik oo.o only exports them
<\sh> imbrandon, yepp
<imbrandon> unless its a resume i rarely make "new" pdf's anymore
<imbrandon> or some report for work that php/asp dumps a pdf of
<\sh> imbrandon, btw...knowing that revu is at siretarts university, do you have some other hardware for ubuntuwire?
<imbrandon> people.uw.com has a staging revu install but its far overloaded atm to put a full one on it
<imbrandon> s/full/main
<imbrandon> staging.revu.ubuntuwire.com
<\sh> imbrandon, na ... about revu online I don't care :)
<\sh> I just wanted to know what I can do to supply more hardware :)
<imbrandon> \sh: yea we have other hardware but its all at capasity or over so ... heh
<imbrandon> in other words :)
<\sh> e.g. we are repairing an ibm bladecenter in the moment...we have 4 blades inside (so with 2x xeon 3.0GHz 4GB ram and mostly 36.4 2.5" U320 SCSI HDs inside
<\sh> there is a need for 8 HS20 blades more :)
<imbrandon> \sh: well you can ship new boxes here is you want to the US or to Nafallo in EU , we both host hardware for UW
<\sh> imbrandon, hosting is not the problem...that's already fixed :)
<imbrandon> or if you can host we can talk more too ... :)
<\sh> imbrandon, and traffic is also not a problem
<imbrandon> ahhh drop by #ubuntuwire and chat me up a bit
<\sh> imbrandon, done :)
<\sh> moins DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> Hi Stephan :)
<Fjodor> Amaranth: Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying :-) Merry christmas :-)
<imbrandon> ugh wtf
<imbrandon> it worked when i uploaded it .... :(
<hyper___ch> hiho, when I create a .deb file out of source code, it will then only work for the system architecutre I comiled it for, right? I mean I have 32-bit system so the .deb wouldn't work on 64bit?
<imbrandon> hyper___ch: correct
<imbrandon> you can use the PPA to compile for both if you wish
<hyper___ch> imbrandon: thx :) as probably only a few motus have all possible system architectures it means that most packages in ubuntu are compiled and maintained by different people for the different architecture, right?
<imbrandon> wrong
<imbrandon> they are managed via source only and uploaded that way, then the buildd's build for all arches
<\sh> hyper___ch, most MOTUs have x86_32 and only some of them have x86_64 archs...
<hyper___ch> so what do the MOTUs then? I assumed they make the .deb available?
<hyper___ch> damn, you know I thought I did understand the whole thing now ;)
<\sh> hyper___ch, but for building packages it doesn't matter...if your source is not compiling on x86_64 or sparc or hppa you have to look at it and fix it hopefully
<imbrandon> they upload the dsc and such th source package
<hyper___ch> ahhh......
<StevenK> imbrandon: Still looking at it?
<hyper___ch> that explains a few things
<hyper___ch> thx
<imbrandon> StevenK: sorta moved onto email but i still have it open
<imbrandon> the first regex seeems broken
<\sh> someone with time could upload drupal5_5.5-1ubuntu1 :) found http://www.sourcecode.de/~shermann/drupal5/5.5/ please debuild -S -sa -v5.3-1ubuntu1 -k<your gpg key id> , thx :)
<geser> \sh: in progress
<\sh> geser, thx
<\sh> btw...does ppa now have this 1G limit?
<Fujitsu> \sh: I don't believe it is enforced technically yet.,
 * geser has still a 1.2 GiB PPA
<geser> since when have bug pages (for a package) a RSS feed?
<imbrandon> geser: since the last LP release
<jonnymind> Hello,
<jonnymind> what happened to revu?
<Fujitsu> jonnymind: The server appears to have had a nasty problem, and nobody has physical access at the moment.
<jonnymind> IC.
<jonnymind> :-(
<geser> \sh: uploaded
<\sh> geser, thx a lot
<\sh> packages.debian.org is down somehow...happy whatever ,-)
<\sh> cool....ppa build of wine already finished :)
<effie_jayx> \sh,  what version?
<awen_> mod_random.c:380: error: expected expression before 'random_conf'
<awen_> mod_random.c:380: error: initializer element is not constant
<awen_> mod_random.c:380: error: (near initialization for 'random_module_cmds[0].cmd_data')
<\sh> effie_jayx, 0.9.51 :)
<awen_> anyone here knows some c code, so i can get this baby fixed and get the new version of the package out the door? :)
<\sh> but for gutsy...
<awen_> http://awen.dk/mod_random.c
<\sh> Not Found
<\sh> The requested URL /mod_random.c was not found on this server.
<\sh> Apache/1.3.37 Server at awen.dk Port 80
<awen_> \sh: sorry... now it's there
<\sh> awen_, what about the theory that (void *) APR_XtOffsetOf is not a constant?
<awen_> \sh: i think you are right... as it is a function, then it probably isn't constant enough
<\sh> well googling for it, shows that it's used somehow in the way you did
<awen_> can you see, what can be done about it? (my knowledge of C is still somewhat limited)
<awen_> \sh: yeah, it seems there have been some sort of change to what is possible between apache2 to apache2.2
<\sh> hmm...let's check out libapr ;)
<\sh> awen_, greping for the term it says in gutsy libapr1 that it's now known as APR_OFFSETOF
<\sh> shermann@home-p4-64:~/source/apr-1.2.7$ grep "APR_XtOffsetOf" *
<\sh> CHANGES:  *) Renamed APR_XtOffset -> APR_OFFSET and APR_XtOffsetOf -> APR_OFFSETOF.
<awen_> \sh: just saw that... i'll just give it a try :)
<geser> if my google hit is still uptodate then all APR_XtOffsetOf and APR_OFFSETOF are all macros
<\sh> geser, yepp...but APR_OFFSETOF is now the right term
 * \sh trusts upstream :)
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> wine is crashing on my emt64 machine...how nice
<\sh> does anybody have a real amd64 machine and can check wine 0.9.51 from deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/shermann/ubuntu gutsy main
<\sh>  ?
<\sh> looks like that my xeon emt64 is not as compatible as it should
<\sh> grmpf s/xeon/p4/
 * \sh is going to prepare the stuff for this xmas thing...bbl
<\sh> damn...I hate these days...now this supporting stand for the tree just broke in my hand...*grmpf*
<penguin42> Hi
<penguin42> I think the gnome debs need an anti-build dependency; I think they fail to build correctly if the old libthread-dev and libpthread20 packages are installed
<StevenK> That is termed a Build-Conflict
<StevenK> How do they fail to build correctly?
<penguin42> They build but fail with the error GThread-ERROR **: file /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.14.1/gthread/gthread-posix.c: line 140 (): error 'Function not implemented' during 'pthread_getschedparam (pthread_self(), &policy, &sched)'
<penguin42> I got this building rhythmbox from source (either from the deb or from the rhythmbox svn)
<penguin42> there is also an easily missed warning of /usr/bin/ld: warning: libpthread.so.0, needed by /usr/lib/libgnomeui-2.so, may conflict with libpthread.so.20
<penguin42> if you google for that Function not implemented on pthread_getschedparam you'll see a lot of unanswered threads going back quite a way of people having the same thing
<penguin42> I would have had those packages installed since I upgraded from feisty - they aren't in gutsy and frankly it's a pitty that they didn't get removed during a dist-upgrade
<penguin42>  #81169, #97092, #115511 are all other bugs people are having with libpthread-dev
 * penguin42 isn't really sure where to file this - do I file it on pthreads or some gnome libs?
<StevenK> I seem to recall something like this being discussed a while back, but I'm not sure what became of it. I'd suggest you just purge those troublesome packages and deal.
<penguin42> yeh I have
<penguin42> thing is it's just taken me a few hours to track it down and I can see there are loads more guys having the same problems
<StevenK> Then file a bug against a Gnome library and ask for suggestions
<penguin42> ok, glib looks possible - I'm just adding a comment to the end of someone elses comment at the moment
<StevenK> I would suggest you also bring this up in #ubuntu-devel -- after the holiday season. :-)
<penguin42> after the holiday season I'll be back at work!
<penguin42> (well not on a sunday but still...)
 * penguin42 gets to hack on stuff during his holidays
<zul> morning
<penguin42> StevenK: OK, that's #178266
<bddebian> Heya gang
<awen_> if i have a package named 2.4.2-8build1 was is then the next ubuntu version number?
<Nafallo> awen_: any 2.4.2-99ubuntu1
<Nafallo> baah
<Nafallo> awen_: 2.4.2-8ubuntu1 even
<awen_> okay... thx Nafallo, that "build" confused me
<Nafallo> awen_: why?
<awen_> haven't seen it used before
<Nafallo> k
<awen_> especially because the append of build1 was a ubuntu change
<Nafallo> that's wrong then :-)
<awen_> Nafallo: thought so :)
 * persia notes that Ubuntu users -buildN to indicate changelog-only updates for rebuilds, as there is no support for binary NMUs.  -build1 is correct, but a special case.
<persia> s/users/uses/
<awen_> persia: okay.. but 2.4.2-8ubuntu1 is correct then?
<persia> awen_: Yes.
<awen_> persia: if a new source package is build where one of the packages is removed from debian/control, does this package then get removed from the archives?
<persia> awen_: Unless the architecture set changes at the same time, yes (and the exception is a bug).
<awen_> persia: okay
<awen_> persia: bug 145542 can i have you unsubscribe the archive maintainers
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145542 in libapache-mod-fastcgi "[UNMETDEPS] libapache-mod-fastcgi" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145542
<persia> awen_: No.  Only the archive admins can unsubscribe.
 * persia encourages awen_ to ask things generally, as others may have faster or better answers.
<dfiloni_> anyone know why revu is offline?
<persia> dfiloni: Some issue with the server that can't be resolved remotely.  The person with local access is ill.
<dfiloni> persia: ok thanks
<dfiloni> persia: why my name is in bug contacts in wxwidgets2.8. I'm scared :)
<persia> dfiloni: Didn't you subscribe as a bug contact?
<dfiloni> *?
<dfiloni> persia: I have subscribed only in 133888 bug
 * persia didn't think there was any auto-subscribe for bug contacts.
<bddebian> persia: Don't you ever sleep? :-)
<persia> bddebian: Yes.  Typically when you are in the office, actually focusing on your job :)
<bddebian> Uhm, that would be never :-)
<persia> See.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<persia> awen_: In addition to removing libapache-mod-fastcgi from control, consider cleaning it out of debian/rules and removing the support files (maintainer scripts, debhelper files, etc.)
<awen_> persia: yes, probably a good idea
<awen_> should a debian/compat file be made if it doesn't exist?
<pochu> awen_: yes, for debhelper compatibility >= 5 iirc
<dfiloni> pochu: do you have in your pc wxwidgets2.8 2.8.6.1?
 * pochu is surprised that wx2.8 /only/ has 8 bugs, as wx2.6 has.
<pochu> I'd have expected it to have dozens of bugs, given the current and past discussions in debian-devel :)
<pochu> dfiloni: yep
<dfiloni> pochu: can you send to me diff and dsc file?
<pochu> Sure.
<pochu> Do I have your mail?
<pochu> dfiloni: I don't know whether you have updated it after I got it
<dfiloni> pochu: d.filoni@devid-filoni.com
<dfiloni> pochu: I don't know, but I think is the lastest version that I've done
 * persia notes that there is an interdiff posted in bug #133888, and would be willing to walk anyone through reconstructing the package therefrom
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<pochu> dfiloni: sent
<pochu> persia: diff.gz is easier ;-)
<persia> pochu: Yes, but I'm not in any way convinced that the file you just sent matches the file from the interdiff, and interdiff -> diff.gz is one command.
<persia> (combinediff -z interdiff, old-diff.gz)
<pochu> persia: btw I wasn't able to attend the MOTU meeting - what was the discussion regarding interdiff this friday? I saw you proposed getting rid of it.
<pochu> persia: Is that interdiff up-to-date?
<persia> pochu: Everyone who attended the meeting had no issues with interdiff.  That interdiff is the one I approved.
 * persia moves writing minutes higher on the TODO queue
<dfiloni> persia: How I can get source from interdiff?
 * pochu wonders what an iterdiff is :-P
<persia> OK.  Interdiff is documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff
<pochu> heh, just kidding ;-)
<pochu> I mean that I have never done one, as I haven't needed it yet :-)
<dfiloni> *can I :P
<pochu> But should be an interesting read
<persia> If you have an interdiff file and the old diff.gz with `combinediff -z packagename_version-revision.diff.gz packagename_newversion-newrevision.interdiff.gz | gzip --best -c - > packagename_newversion-newrevision.diff.gz `
<persia> From the new diff.gz, you can use filterdiff to extract the debian/ directory, and grab the new upstream source from either the watch file or the get-orig-source rule in debian rules (specific commands on the wiki page).
<persia> Then, you unpack the upstream source, apply the diff from the constructed diff.gz, and you have a new package directory.  From this, you can create the source package with the standard package build tools (debuild, dpkg-buildpackage, etc.).
<DrKranz> persia, does your script on ubuntuwire does this by itself?
<persia> DktrKranz: Yes, but it breaks a lot, which is why it's not linked from the Interdiff page.
<DrKranz> so, I guess I have to follow the procedure above
<persia> DrKranz: You can try my script.  You're also welcome to improve it.  While my script works in some cases, I find I usually do it manually anyway.  I keep meaning to fix the script, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
<DrKranz> I need to learn how to use interdiff properly, so I have to learn how it works before attempting to automate the process
<persia> DrKranz: Basically, it tracks the differences between two patches.  This allows the conversion of the old patch into a new patch, creating the new diff.gz.  The rest of the instructions are more about creating a source package from a diff.gz.
<DrKranz> Ok, I'll have a look to upload wxwidgets
<DrKranz> on my PPA for testing purposes
<DrKranz> persia, I received "combinediff: Garbled patch". Is this OK?
<awen_> DrKranz: no... you should receive empty output
<persia> DrKranz: Erf?
 * persia tries
<DrKranz> persia, it is from your interdiff in bug 133888
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the 2.8.6.1 release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/133888
<persia> DktrKranz: `combinediff -z wxwidgets2.8_2.8.4.0-0ubuntu3_2.8.6.1-0ubuntu1.interdiff.gz wxwidgets2.8_2.8.4.0-0ubuntu3.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > wxwidgets2.8_2.8.6.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz` gives me no output, and a clean wxwidgets2.8_2.8.6.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<dfiloni_> persia: also to me
 * DktrKranz inverted .diff.gz and .interdiff.gz
 * persia has made that mistake lots & lots of times :)
 * DktrKranz is on his way to make that mistake again
 * dfiloni_ do the same thing....
<DktrKranz> dfiloni_, persia, uploading wxwidgets2.8 to my PPA for a final test build
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<dfiloni_> DktrKranz: thanks
 * pochu hugs y'all
<DktrKranz> heya pochu! :)
<pochu> This is the upload with more people involved I've ever seen :-)
<DktrKranz> I don't know, but at least eight eyes looked at that
<dfiloni> pochu: wow
<DktrKranz> uploading 32 Mb can be frustrating sometimes...
<pochu> specially when you put foo-security instead of foo and then the upload was rejected o.O
<DktrKranz> heh
<pochu> The difference is that that happened to me with wesnoth which is 60 or 70 MB :-/
 * DktrKranz thinks to who pushes openoffice...
 * persia notes that upstream also looked at it, in addition to at least 3 MOTUs and 2 active Contributors
<stgraber> that's why I do packaging of big packages on a dedicated server with 100Mb/s internet :) (well, that's mainly homemade packages for some schools)
<DktrKranz> \o/
 * dfiloni don't think... no more stress about package for him
<DktrKranz> stgraber, my aDSL is 30Kb during uploads...
<DktrKranz> :)
<pochu> persia: who's the other MOTU? bluekuja?
<pochu> dfiloni: hehe
<persia> pochu: Yes.
<pochu> Ah, cool. I didn't know he reviewed it :)
<dfiloni> pochu: all this for my guilt
<pochu> That's five then, even more that what I was counting ;)
 * DktrKranz limited to some tests, not a full review
<persia> pochu: six: don't discount upstream :)
<pochu> dfiloni: you rock! :-)
<pochu> persia: did upstream tested dfiloni's package? o.O
<DktrKranz> what about someone who has glasses? does he count as double?
<dfiloni> DktrKranz: I think no body had gone a full review
<persia> pochu: I don't know about tested, but commented on my review of the interdiff.
<dfiloni> *nobody
 * persia looked at every byte of dfiloni's work at least twice
<dfiloni> persia: GREAT!
<DktrKranz> dfiloni, what comes next? world 0.2, new upstream version?
<dfiloni> DktrKranz: new upstream version
<DktrKranz> ok, remember to provide a patch for pollution and some more trees
<pochu> DktrKranz: 2.8.7.1 :-/
<dfiloni> DktrKranz: 2.8.7.1 version.. I'm scared
 * pochu wonders why they don't bug bug-fix *only* releases
<pochu> s/bug/do/
<persia> pochu: Do you really want to be looking at wxwdigets 14.7?
<pochu> But 6 half reviews are W: hotwire: package-contains-empty-directory usr/share/omf/hotwire/
<pochu> woops
<pochu> persia: please, oh please, I don't ;-)
<DktrKranz> pochu, IIRC, wxwidgets was at 2.8.6.1
<pochu> DktrKranz: you dont remember correctly :P dfiloni already has it packaged
<dfiloni> now I'm working at 2.8.7.1 version
<DktrKranz> erm... so I really missed something....
<DktrKranz> interdiff was related to 2.8.6.1
<pochu> DktrKranz: you are supposed to upload 2.8.6.1
<pochu> DktrKranz: 2.8.7.1 is ... weird
 * DktrKranz breathes again :)
<DktrKranz> pochu, I guess wxwidgets* is weird... :)
<dfiloni> pochu: do you want to see latest lintian output about wxwidgets2.8?
<pochu> dfiloni: I saw it when you pasted it :-)
<dfiloni> pochu: I'm really scared, I will work on it in the next day and happy new wxwidgets2.8
<pochu> dfiloni: that, and the fact that they added a new editor in a ?bugfix? release is why I say it's weird ;)
 * DktrKranz hopes Debian provide a new package *soon*
<dfiloni> pochu: they added a new editor that add some lintian warnings/errors
 * pochu is afraid that won't happen
<DktrKranz> latest mail by bernd suggested to talk to debian-ctte
<persia> DktrKranz: That's strange and contentious.  Upstream is working with Debian (and dfiloni with upstream) to make that happen.
<DktrKranz> persia, I think it's because Ron doesn't want his package hijacked
<DktrKranz> (his own words)
<persia> DktrKranz: Yes.  Exactly.  Hijacks are bad, so I don't blame Ron, but it's awkward for Maintainers when upstream only works with 2.8.
 * persia thanks Matthias for having put 2.8 in Ubuntu several releases back
<pochu> What is funny is that wx2.8 only has 8 bugs in LP, as wx2.6 has
<persia> pochu: Why is that funny?
<DktrKranz> pochu, I think boa-constructor's one are related to wxwidgets2.6 :)
<DktrKranz> upload completed \o/
<pochu> persia: because Ron's main reason to not package wx2.8 is that wx2.8 is half broken, IIUC
<pochu> s/half broken/buggy/
<persia> pochu: 2.4 has no bugs, but that's mostly because nobody cares, rather than because it's not buggy.
<pochu> persia: bug if an application crashes, and it's an wx bug, then someone moves the crash to wxwidgets
<pochu> Although I agree that there are a lot of package to which nobody looks
<pochu> Anyway, I have used aMule, and phatch, and Filezilla which wx2.8 and I don't think wx2.8 is that buggy.
<persia> pochu: Right.  Since nobody uses any of the packages that depend on 2.4, it gets no bugs.  Most packages use 2.6, which is pretty stable, so it only gets a few bugs.  A few packages use 2.8, but it has just as many bugs as 2.6.  I suggest this indicates 2.8 is buggier than 2.6.
<persia> (and, no, not that buggy)
<AnAnt> Hello, when's the next sync with Debian ?
<persia> AnAnt: Late April.
<AnAnt> there are a couple of packages on Debian, that aren't on Ubuntu
<persia> AnAnt: If there is a specific package that provides some useful feature for hardy, compiles, installs, and generally behaves well on hardy, and doesn't break anything, please file a sync request for inclusion.  Some packages will be missed, but the current focus is on integration, bugfixing, and implementation of specific hardy features, rather than including everything that can be found.
<AnAnt> persia: what decides if it provides useful feature for hardy ?
<persia> AnAnt: The opinion of the person researching the inclusion, based on their understanding of possible use cases.  If that person is not an Ubuntu developer, the reasoning behind inclusion is reviewed by a sponsor.
<AnAnt> persia: well, one of them is swt-gtk
<AnAnt> persia: the swt libraries are now provided by a new source package called swt-gtk
<AnAnt> persia: instead of eclipse source package
<persia> AnAnt: This is in Debian?
<AnAnt> persia: yeah
<persia> AnAnt: Does it also apply to the eclipse source package currently in Ubuntu?
<AnAnt> persia: meaning what ?
<persia> AnAnt: Well, if the current Ubuntu eclipse no longer provides the swt libraries, then swt-gtk is clearly needed in order to prevent a fairly serious regression in hardy.  On the other hand, if the last pull from Debian was before the transition, it may be safe to postpone the transition until hardy+1.
<persia> Note that it being safe to postpone doesn't mean it should be postponed, only that someone should determine what effect the transition may have, so as to avoid too much additional work towards hardy release preparation.
<AnAnt> persia: I don't think that the change will impact eclipse
<AnAnt> persia: because the names of the binary packages are different
<persia> AnAnt: OK.  If you want swt-gtk in hardy, please investigate the impact and rationale, and file a bug.  I'm not very familiar with the Ubuntu Java plans, and don't really understand why it both is and isn't related to changes that may have happened in eclipse in Debian.
<txwikinger> persia: who decides to discontinue a package, or rather put in a transitional package pointing to the replacement?
<persia> txwikinger: Any Ubuntu Developer.  Non-developers who have researched that either a package should be removed or that a transition is needed are encouraged to document it in a bug (with a patch if required), and forward to the sponsors queue.  (see https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors for a bunch of current examples related to apache)
<txwikinger> ok.. thanks
<persia> txwikinger: Just for completeness, Ubuntu also pulls a lot of transitions / removals that were planned in Debian, especially at the beginning of each release cycle.
<txwikinger> I found a package due to the MOTU bitesizes which seems to be replaced by another
<persia> txwikinger: Which package?
<txwikinger> beep-media-layer
<txwikinger> beep-media-player
<txwikinger> supposedly replaced by audacious or something like that
<txwikinger> Bug #116809
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116809 in beep-media-player "no icon in kubuntu feisty's kde menu" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/116809
<AnAnt> persia: how do I request a certain pacakge to be synced ?
<persia> txwikinger: That would be related to Debian Bug #422681.  There are some reverse dependencies that need investigation (bmp-mp4, xfce4-xmms-plugin, bmp-musepack, bmp-alarm).  Once those are cleaned up, a removal request may be placed.  It's likely not worth fixing the missing icon bug.
<ubotu> Debian bug 422681 in ftp.debian.org "RM: beep-media-player -- RoM; RoQA; abandoned upstream; superseded by bmpx and audacious" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/422681
<txwikinger> sorry.. got the wrong bug: Bug #66322
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 66322 in beep-media-player "bmp is deprecated by upstream ==> please replace it by Audacious" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/66322
<persia> AnAnt: Bug #176721 is the last bug I filed of that type.  You might use it as a template.  Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug once it is ready to get approval.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 176721 in ubuntu "Please sync uqm-russian 1.0.0-1 into multiverse from Debian unstable (contrib)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176721
 * persia idles
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<pwnguin> is it really nessecary for azureus to have  -J-Xmx64m?
<pwnguin> err
<pwnguin> Xmx1024M
<siretart> revu back.
<bddebian> w00t siretart :)
<dfiloni_> thanks for the good news siretart :)
<siretart> i'm told the server room was too hot
<siretart> not good
<pwnguin> yikes
<Nafallo> siretart: get a DC :-P
<emgent> 	
<emgent> Christian Democracy ? :)
<geser> siretart: get some fresh air from outside into the room, it should be cold enough :)
<siretart> geser: the room has no windows
<emgent> siretart, heya :)
<dfiloni> siretart: do you want to say che a linux pc, a "tux" is hot?
<dfiloni> *tha
<dfiloni> t
<dfiloni> *do you want to say that a linux pc, a "tux" is hot?
 * jonnymind is away: dinner
 * awen_ is wondering what to do about libapache-mod-tsunami
<awen_> we have version 3.0, but it doesn't work with apache2 ... and the version existing for apache2 was branched off at version 2.0 and is still this version
<bluefoxicy> Firefox 3.0b2 is out, but Gutsy-backports reflects 3.0a8
<bluefoxicy> does backports not carry Firefox or is there just nobody interested in backporting it?
<bluefoxicy> (I'm not interested in running Hardy this early)
<pochu> bluefoxicy: 3.0b2 needs to go first to Hardy. Then a backport can be requested.
<bluefoxicy> pochu:  ah, ok.  Hardy still ships 3.0a8 or non?
<pochu> b1
<pochu> \o/ wxwidgets2.8 uploaded
<pochu> dfiloni__, persia, bluekuja, cheers
<bluefoxicy> pochu:  nods.  Launchpad is where to suggest backport?
<pochu> bluefoxicy: launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+bugs, yes
<bluefoxicy> ok
<bluefoxicy> lol X broke on hardy
<pochu> intel?
<bluefoxicy> yeah, under vmware
<bluefoxicy> it said something about [ missing arguments when I asked for more details
<Ubulette> it seems b2 will not be in hardy before xmas. it's ready but we have a dep in the NEW queue (nss)
<bluefoxicy> kay.
<bluefoxicy> b1 wasn't bad, I was just guessing b2 was in hardy already
<pochu> Ubulette: poke Hobbsee when she's back. She can do NEW.
<bluefoxicy> will Thunderbird on Hardy use xulrunner?
<Ubulette> it's not ready yet
<bluefoxicy> (really I'm trying to reduce my RAM usage to help my usage of VMware)
<Ubulette> (thunderbird 3.0)
<bluefoxicy> ok
<Ubulette> same for seamonkey 2.0
<bluefoxicy> seamonkey irritates me
<Ubulette> why ?
<bluefoxicy> I would have thought they could have made a combined Firefox + Thunderbird that used the same config directories but as i understand Seamonkey is Mozilla Suite with its own configuration directories
<Ubulette> correct
<bluefoxicy> picking up Seamonkey instead of FF/TB right now would probably drop my RAM usage a bit <_<
<bluefoxicy> (since FF and TB use their own copies of the XUL and GRE and thus there's a lot of stuff that COULD be shared memory between them but isn't, mostly library rodata and .text)
<Ubulette> i have seamonkey 2.0 ready but asac prefer to wait for it to be xulified before we push it to hardy
<bluefoxicy> asac?
<Ubulette> yes, ~asac
<bluefoxicy> oh person asac, not acronym asac
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/~asac
<Ubulette> but if you want to try it, it's in my ppa
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+packages
<bluefoxicy> pochu:  OK X is bitching that get-edid isn't installed
<bluefoxicy> I installed read-edid, trying to fix.
<bluefoxicy> failsafe X server is saying [ too many arguments and it doesn't know how to fix the 10 shared/default-x-server X server.  i did a telinit 1 and told it to xfix and it fixed it though
<bluefoxicy> .... except it got the resolution wrong and selected the WRONG keymap.
<bluefoxicy> (us while the terminal is on dvorak)
<bluefoxicy> ... yeah xfix no more running that <_<
<bluefoxicy> can you make it do exactly what it does on the live cd @_@
<dfiloni__> pochu: now I'm here
<warp10> Great! Looks like REVU is up now
<siretart> lets see for how long :)
<dfiloni> warp10: yes
<CheGuevara> question, i am modifying a universe package and the build-depends is all on one line, is it worth changing it to be no longer then 80 characters on one line
<geser> no, that's only unnecessary delta to debian
<warp10> I have just uploaded a package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tennix If someone wont take a look, thanks in advance!
<CheGuevara> ok thanks geser
<warp10> s/wont/want
<\sh> grmpf...I really new it..why do I have to play with software which is broken by default
<\sh> gna...now I have a ati x1300 pro but ati drivers arenot working :(
<\sh> has anyone a clue what hoary-loud-experimental is?
<\sh> WTF since when is NJAM commercial software?
<\sh> hell he merged njam2 to a commercial app
<ScottK2> imbrandon: Are you around?
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> make it ok?
<nenolod> hi. i have a debdiff for audacious in ubuntu to make it use pulseaudio by default.
<nenolod> ;)
<ScottK2> imbrandon: Yes.
<imbrandon> good good
<ScottK2> imbrandon: Any chance for getting together for lunch tomorrow.
<imbrandon> sure
<ScottK2> Are you working or at home tomorrow?
<imbrandon> would have to be semi early ( i have family stuff after 4pm )
<imbrandon> i'm off work untill jan 2
<imbrandon> :)
<ScottK2> Ah.
<ScottK2> So something noonish would work?
<imbrandon> sounds good
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> still up for bbq?
<ScottK2> Yes.
<imbrandon> cool
<imbrandon> you got my home # incase something pops up right ?
<ScottK2> Gates at 103rd and State Line at Noon then?
<imbrandon> sounds perfect
<ScottK2> See you then.
<imbrandon> ok, have fun :)
<ScottK2> nenolod: You probably ought to talk to jdong.  IIRC he recently redid all the packaging for that.
<jdong> what am I redoing?
<imbrandon> jdong: 17:18:13 < nenolod> hi. i have a debdiff for audacious in ubuntu to make it use pulseaudio by default.
<jdong> ah, I don't think I've touched either in the messing of the stack yet. avidemux is probably what ScottK2 was thinking of
<jdong> pulse sounds like a crimsun thing :)
<nenolod> at any rate, someone take care of it please :D
<nenolod> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/175536
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 175536 in audacious "[Harty] audacious not work fine with pulseaudio" [Undecided,New]
<imbrandon> harty ?
<imbrandon> :)
<nenolod> harty. :D
<nenolod> harty the tarty hedgehog
<nenolod> hmm. that wasn't as funny as i thought it would be.
<nenolod> oh well. :P
<jdong> that's what the ffmpeg team said about their monthly API changes :)
<nenolod> at any rate, that's the debdiff. have fun with it.
<nenolod> anyone in particular i should subscribe to the bug?
<awen-> nenolod: change status to confirmed, assign to nobody and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<awen-> that's what i've been told (it's a universe package right?)
<nenolod> awen-, so standard procedure. thanks.
<awen-> nenolod: that usually works for me
<jdong> nenolod: yeah let's handle it as u-u-s for now :)
<jdong> I'm packing bags and preparing to fly home tomorrow so I don't feel coherent enough to sponsor tonight
<nenolod> caveats: audacious hasn't been tested with pulseaudio much.
<jdong> nenolod: well considering how we plan on making it default (AFAIK) it's not a bad idea to test it this way before it's too late :)
<nenolod> jdong, i'm testing it now.
 * awen- is a little scared that 1/3 of the bugs assigned to ubuntu-universe-sponsors is "his"
<nenolod> jdong, some gentoo users have reported bugs. I'm not sure what the deal is there yet (unable to reproduce)
<jdong> nenolod: As long as you plan to follow through with it I'd say it's good for upload.
<nenolod> jdong, of course i plan to follow through with it :D
<jdong> :)
<nenolod> it seems that pulseaudio doesn't like large fragments
<nenolod> so i'll probably have to backport some fixes i made to 1.4 plugins for ubuntu
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-15
<alex_21> Hello, is someone available to answer some questions?
<lifeless> is there a project for revu, for filing bugs?
<lifeless> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sourceryvsipl%2B%2B - can't comment on this package
<StevenK> lifeless: Apparently you can
<StevenK> "December 15 03:40  [REVU Profile for lifeless]  lifeless"
<StevenK> "Please address the automatically generated issues. Also you have created a native package - it should be ânon-nativeâ. Just renaming your FOO.tar.gz too FOO.orig.tar.gz before you build the source upload is enough."
<lifeless> StevenK: interesting
<lifeless> StevenK: the submit button ends up taking me to ...++
<lifeless> rather than %2B%2B
<lifeless> and says 'no such package or uipl', or some such
<StevenK> lifeless: Right, that's a bug, but it still submits the comment
<lifeless> so its nice it captures it and all, but its still got a bug :)
<lifeless> StevenK: so is there a REVU bugtracker?
<StevenK> A quick guess gives https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/revu
<Luke> http://dpaste.com/99158/ anyone see what's wrong with this. why REV wont bind?
<Hobbsee> is APP defined above?
<Luke> yup
<Luke> just the name
 * Hobbsee wonders what was wrong with svn info <target> -r head or simmilar
<Luke> Hobbsee: ah didn't know it existed
<Luke> same thing though except with one more query. need to cut the revision out
<ethana2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TabletSetupWizardpen
<ethana2> End users shouldn't have to compile code; I wish to do it for them
<ethana2> I want to package the latest wizardpen release as a .dsc and put it to my PPA and REVU
<ethana2> I ran into a problem with configure and contacted the dude, but I've never /created/ a debian package before and may need some help to supplement the guides
<jmarsden> ethana2: Go for it.  If you need help on a specific issue, ask about that specific question here.
<ethana2> jmarsden: k, I'll see where I get hung up after the dude upstream gets back to me about the configure error
<ethana2> mind if I contact you directly when I come to that point?
<jmarsden> Always just ask the channel; whoever is free and knows something will answer you.
<ethana2> k
<YokoZar> Do universe SRUs need one or two ACKs before uploading to -proposed?
<nxvl> none
<nxvl> they need ack's to be moved from -proposed to -updates
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ho
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee :)
<directhex> ta dholbach
<dholbach> directhex: no worries
<directhex> i'm waiting on dinstall for a couple more
<iulian> directhex: Heh, I forgot that giver was uploaded to experimental and that's why I didn't filed a sync request. Thanks for doing this ;)
<iulian> Btw, good morning all.
<iulian> s/filed/file
<directhex> iulian, i was going to check with you first, but you weren't online
<jmarsden> bug 277752 is supposedly fixed, but rmadison setools shows:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277752 in setools "Please sync setools 3.3.5.ds-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277752
<jmarsden>    setools | 3.3.4.ds-4 | intrepid/universe | amd64
<jmarsden>    setools | 3.3.5.ds-3 | intrepid/universe | source, i386
<jmarsden> CAn anyone explain why amd64 still has the older 3.3.4 build?
<soren> jmarsden: I'm guessing the newer one failed to build..
<jmarsden> Well, es... I'm trying to build it here now to see what happens... but the sync was back in October... did no-one notice this before??
 * directhex swears gently
 * jmarsden hopes the oaths are not directed at him...
<directhex> dholbach, looks like gfax 0.7.6 started life as a 0ubuntu1. god damnit.
<dholbach> directhex: looks like we need to fake-sync
<jmarsden> soren: setools 3.3.5 built fine for me here (8.10 amd64).  How could I request an "official" retry of that build so that universe gets the 3.3.5 version for amd64?
<directhex> dholbach, right.
<directhex> dholbach, unless there's a new upstream release, i can get that pushed to exp if it exists
<directhex> nein :/
<dholbach> directhex: I think the upstream maintainer is fairly responsive - we should probably just talk to him about it to roll a new one
<dholbach> directhex: I think he even submitted a bunch of patches to Ubuntu directly
<soren> jmarsden: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18330076/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.setools_3.3.5.ds-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dholbach> hiya soren!
<soren> dholbach: o/
<directhex> bah, hardy requestsync sucks
<quadrispro> anyone on bug #307020?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: (-5, 'No address associated with hostname') (https://launchpad.net/bugs/307020/+text)
<quadrispro> bug 307020
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: (-5, 'No address associated with hostname') (https://launchpad.net/bugs/307020/+text)
<emgent> gouki: ping
<pmjdebruijn> geser: you there?
<pmjdebruijn> geser: thanks for your review of my lensfun package...
<pmjdebruijn> geser: I check and indeed the copyright file isn't getting in all the packages... but how do I solve that elegantly?
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: did you try adding dh_installdocs in the install target in debian/rules?
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: wait, I guess you will need to add it to binary-arch
<pmjdebruijn> slytherin: hmm it's not there
<pmjdebruijn> slytherin: I thought I was there by default...
<slytherin> pmjdebruijn: what do you mean by default?
<pmjdebruijn> slytherin: I though dh_make put it in there by default
<pmjdebruijn> doesn't matter though
<pmjdebruijn> I fixed up my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun
<dholbach> hello SRU team - anything new about bug 244613?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244613 in apt-mirror "[intrepid alpha1] apt-mirror gives error "closedir() attempted on invalid dirhandle DIR at /usr/bin/apt-mirror line 537."" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/244613
<dholbach> nxvl, devfil, cody-somerville, jdong: ^? :)
 * nixternal hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs nixternal back
 * dholbach hugs nixternal back
 * dholbach hugs nixternal back
<nixternal> ahh, the love :)
<nixternal> how was your flight back?
<dholbach> all good, I'm just tired - and I got into the security check again
<nixternal> hehe, with all of those records, they thought you had a vinyl bomb
<dholbach> probably :)
<dholbach> directly had the "SSSS" on my boarding card after checking in my baggage
<nixternal> I came back to chicago to an ice storm last night, and negative temperatures
<dholbach> nixternal: wow
 * nixternal wishes for that domain hotel hot tub now
<jdong> dholbach: done :)
<dholbach> jdong: muchas gracias!
<devfil> dholbach: ACKed
<jdong> lol
<devfil> jdong: lol
<jdong> a double-acked bug is twice as fixed!
<devfil> ghhh
<dholbach> party on :)
<devfil> two ACKs in a minute is a new record I think
<mok0> ACK ACK ACK
<Pici> SYN
<directhex> RESET
<nxvl> dholbach: looking
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> late
<nxvl> :P
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> thanks my friends
<mok0> In debian/control, can I use: Architecture: any [! amd64]  ??
<mok0> nope
<pmjdebruijn> I fixed my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun you anybody take a look?
<ScottK> mok0: You need to have an entry in PAS (packages arch specific).
<DRebellion> lifeless, thanks for reviewing cifer. You mentioned bumping compat to debhelper 6; would you mind elaborating on that?
<mok0> ScottK: PAS?
<mok0> ScottK: this application always fails on certain archs. I am wondering whether to leave it to FTBFS or limit the Architectures
<ScottK-laptop> Does it fail because it's buggy or inherently isn't for that arch?
<ScottK-laptop> http://buildd.debian.org/quinn-diff/Packages-arch-specific
<mok0> ScottK: I don't really know... it's always failed ever since it was introduced
<fbond> Hi, it appears that old configuration files don't automatically get removed when a new package version that doesn't ship the file is installed.  Is it standard practice to handle this by removing the file in the postinst?
<ScottK> Well I think that's the question you have to answer to know which it should be.
<mok0> ScottK: Hm, yes that's what I was afraid of
<mok0> ScottK: I am looking at bug 306754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306754 in pose "[FTBFS] pose FTBFS in Jaunty with gcc 4.3" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306754
<mok0> ScottK: the patch makes it compile under i386 at least
<ScottK-laptop> Progress.
<ScottK-laptop> mok0: Since fabrice_sp_ says he's still working on amd64, I'd say upload the i386 fix and see how far he gets.
<mok0> ScottK: yeah
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Hello iulian
<Pici> boo?
<Pici> Oh, darn. I mistabbed the channel.
<bddebian> :)
<lifeless> DRebellion: well, the debhelper compatability option sets what minimum version of debhelper to support, and can change defaults too;
<DRebellion> lifeless, yes, but why 6 instead of 5?
<RainCT> OT, has anyone ever heard that "browser" = "search machine"? :P
<lifeless> DRebellion: we want the latest code and bugfixes. It may be for jaunty we should be raising to 7 even
<lifeless> DRebellion: but I haven't checked that with the other MOTU's as yet
<DRebellion> lifeless, what about backwards-compatibility for backports?
<lifeless> DRebellion: backports are done by rebuilding the transitive runtime and build dependency closures
<lifeless> they aren't so much a 'backport' as a 'rebuild targeting the old suite'
<DRebellion> lifeless, my point was that older releases aren't going to have the latest debhelper versions, so not depending on them is a plus, no?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> because you turn off the better behaviour of newer versions
<DRebellion> lifeless, what do you mean by "turn off"?
<lifeless> see compatibility levels in 'man debhelper' for details on what is turned off/on
<RainCT> (tss.. English teachers. "labtop", "browser = search machine" and "hacker = evil". I should better sleep at class :P :P)
<DRebellion> lifeless, I don't see anything in versions >5 that cifer depends on, but I've changed to compat 6 anyway.
<DRebellion> will be in revu shortly...
<RainCT> (ah, and saying that "Dreamweaver is outdated and is less people are using it now" -.-)
<lifeless> DRebellion: thanks; I got prompted by this conversation to query the motu list too regarding this.
<DRebellion> lifeless, I look forward to getting this cleared up then ; )
<lifeless> DRebellion: to answer the question regarding backports, any backport built for hardy will have debhelper 7 anyway
<DRebellion> sebner, lifeless, I've fixed the issues; the new package is in revu: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer .
<lifeless> DRebellion: thanks. I've done my REVUing today, hopefully someone else will sweep by and comment further/advocate. There is a big backlog at the moment, and my person focus is to deal with the oldest first, to stop things getting really old :)
<DRebellion> lifeless, no problem, thanks for your contribution ; )
<fabrice_sp_> ScottK: about pose package. I'm still working on amd64 port, but it will be a huge patch (if it still works after porting)
<ScottK> OK.  As I told mok0, I think he ought to go ahead with the one that fixes i386 and then later see your your amd54 patch works out.
<fabrice_sp_> ScottK: That's why I released the i386 fix first :-)
<fabrice_sp_> thanks anyway
<IAK> hi all
<IAK_> anyone here?
<iulian> Maybe.
<directhex> i'm not
<fabrice_sp_> Can someone be kind enough to review dvdstyler? It's at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler (and would be the third review).
<IAK_> haha k good I thought I was all alone for a second ;)
<IAK_> anyhow I am interested in getting involved.  I would like to develop
<fabrice_sp_> IAK_: you can begin with this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<iulian> Well, I believe all the information you're looking for is in our wiki page. /topic in case you missed it.
<IAK_> I am currently reading it as a matter of fact..
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: by the way: is it worth doing a SRU with this patch? The version in Intrepid FTBFS actually.
<ScottK> For the SRU, I'd say wait and find out if you succeed on amd64 and do one.
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> thanks
<ScottK> If you can fix the FTBFS, then I do think it's SRU worthy (but note I'm not on motu-sru).
<pochu> IAK_: good, feel free to ask questions if you get into trouble or something :)
<IAK_> k will do...
<nxvl> !nixternal
<ubottu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, and help on the MIRC client too! <nixternal> I LOVE MIRC!!!
 * ScottK-laptop uses mIRC on his Palm Treo.
<RainCT> ohh, fingerprint readers work with PAM?
<Ahmuck> who is updating the hugin software?
<sebner> huhu RainCT
<sebner> ScottK-laptop: bad boy :P
<RainCT> sebner: what's up? :)
<sebner> RainCT: not that many =) what about you?
<sebner> Ahmuck: jaunty has the newest version
<RainCT> sebner: Oh, not much neither.. Just reading a bit about fingerprint readers, as my laptop will have one :P
<fabrice_sp> Ahmuck: I am
<sebner> RainCT: are you sure it'll work with ubuntu? ^^
<fabrice_sp> ohhh: sebner answered
 * RainCT was sure it wouldn't work, but for what I'm reading it seems like the topic isn't that bad :). And it must be cool to use sudo by moving the finger over the reader instead of typing a pass!
<fabrice_sp> soory
<RainCT> sebner: dunno, but there are instructions for Ubuntu here: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_enable_the_fingerprint_reader
<sebner> fabrice_sp: np, you are the last updater so it's ok though most people just ask for a new version
<wharp> hi, I'm trying to figure out how to get a newer version of gnomesword in the repos.
<wharp> I see there was a request made ehre https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnomesword/+bug/295389/ but no comments have been added
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295389 in gnomesword "This version is extremely out of date" [Undecided,New]
<pochu> you can prepare it ;)
<pochu> looks like the Debian maintainer is MIA, though
<fabrice_sp> sebner: I even uploaded it to my ppa, so I fill a bit like the 'owner' of the package :-)
<wharp> no kidding he's MIA.  he's active on the mailing list every once in a while, but all requests about updated versions go unanswered
<wharp> I gave packaging it a go but it's way over my head
<sebner> RainCT: xD
<sebner> pochu: that was bad :P
 * sebner kicks his wlan router
<sebner> fabrice_sp: we are not Debian so no owners :P  But it's fine
<sebner> pochu: MIA?
<RainCT> sebner: Missing in Action
<sebner> RainCT: ah, what about Inactive or Dead? ^^
<wharp> pochu: what all do I need to do to get it in the repos?
<pochu> wharp: either prepare the update yourself, or get somebody to do it
<pochu> wharp: if you want to prepare it, attach the resulting diff.gz to the bug report and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to it
<sebner> wharp: update sword and then gnomesword
<wharp> are there instructions somewhere?
<wharp> we've got packages built, but i realize that's nto what needs tob e done
<ScottK-laptop> txwikinger: Would you be willing to help with gnomesword updates? ^^
<txwikinger> ScottK-laptop: yes
<ScottK-laptop> txwikinger: Great.  wharp: txwikinger knows a good deal about the sword packages and is willing to help you.
<wharp> awesome1
<wharp> thanks
<Ahmuck> i've been building my own for a while.  just installed hugin on a new install thinking it was 0.7x and realized i'm going to have to build myself again to get the features i wanted
<directhex> RainCT, you, #debian-mono, now.
<RainCT> directhex: aye, sir :P
<fabrice_sp> Ahmuck: Why? It's already at latest version (0.7.0) in Jaunty and in my ppa
<RainCT> directhex: ah, upstream answered and said that gbrainy will only compile with gmcs
<Ahmuck> i'm on hardy
<fabrice_sp> Ahmuck: I also have the hardy version in my ppa
<fabrice_sp> (https://launchpad.net/~fabricesp/+archive)
<Ahmuck> point me to it.  i usually do a daily build
<mgdm> fabrice_sp: I have your Hugin recompiled to link against pmjdebruijn's libexiv2
<Ahmuck> is there a way to get the install cd to check for updates before installation and download and install the updated packages during installation?
<Ahmuck> are install issues discussed here?
<pochu> Ahmuck: I don't think so that's possible
<pochu> Ahmuck: nope, there's #ubuntu-installer though
<jmarsden|work> Ahmuck: You may be able to script the apt-get update && apt-get upgrade in a kickstart-based install
<DimStar> Good evening everybody.. I'm an author of the library libproxy and a ubuntu user reported an issue with compiling the lib, linking against mozilla-js on Ubuntu 8.10. Libproxy uses pkg-config in order to identify the location of include files, but apparently on Ubuntu 8.10, this seems not to reflect the reality. Is something like this known to you?
<Ahmuck> something i've noticed about the installers, is the text based requires you "attend it" because of more information needed during the install, whereas the gui only requires you to do it at the start of the install and then completes the install.  having a unified install sequence would be nice
<mok0> azeem: ping?
<Laney> How can I get svn-buildpackage to spit out a source package?
<Hobbsee> Laney: man svn-buildpackage to be sure, but -S usually does that for similar packages
<Laney> Hobbsee: I don't see it in the manpage, but it might be another problem then, thanks
<Laney> Ah yes, I've got it
<pochu> Laney: in [ OPTIONS for dpkg-buildpackage ]
 * Hobbsee doesn't have it installed, so sees no manpage
<Laney> pochu: Ah yes
<jmarsden|work> bug 277752 - setools builds fine on my local Intrepid/amd64 machine, but not "for real", apparently.  How can I troubleshoot this further?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277752 in setools "Please sync setools 3.3.5.ds-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277752
<jmarsden|work> PPA build also works
<ScottK-laptop> And the same package built for Jaunty too.
<jmarsden|work> So... should we just ask for the build host to build it over again for Intrepid??
<ScottK-laptop> Looks like it was just a transient soyuz failure.
<jmarsden|work> OK.  CAn you (or someone with appropriate powers) trigger a retry?
<ScottK-laptop> Post-release it needs a new source upload and an SRU.
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> ^ what ScottK-laptop said
<ScottK-laptop> Hobbsee: No to him or me?
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.
 * ScottK-laptop looks around for someone in motu-sru?
<gouki> emgent, pong
<ScottK-laptop> jmarsden|work: I'm taking care of it.
<jmarsden|work> ScottK-laptop: Thanks!
<Fragadelic> hi fabrice_sp
<ScottK-laptop> jmarsden|work: Bug #308350
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308350 in setools "FTBFS on amd64 and lpia due to dpkg-buildpackage failure." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308350
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-16
<azeem> mok0: pong
<mok0> azeem: hi, do you have a few moments to discuss that IBM license?
<azeem> sure
<mok0> azeem: so I checked the gle source pkg, and it has exactly the same IBM license.
<mok0> azeem: In fact, gle shouldn't be in Debian :-)
<azeem> hrm, I had a look at it
<mok0> azeem: The license text is flawed, I am pretty sure they meant to give you permission to modify & distribute
<azeem> mok0: COPYING says:
<azeem> Alternately, at your choosing, you may choose to accept the source
<azeem> code and the man pages/documentation under the GPL: the GNU General
<azeem> Public License version 2, as given below.
<mok0> azeem:  go in src/ and lookat COPYING.src
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> not sure which COPYING is the one which rules-them-all
<mok0> azeem: to me it doesn't look like that...
<mok0> azeem: COPYING.src says at the top: "The following agreement applies to the source code in this directory
<mok0> only!"
<azeem> ok, but the top-level COPYING says it's alternatively under the GPL
<azeem> certainly some clarification would be fine
<mok0> azeem: yes, but can the distributor just do that? I don't think so
<azeem> btw, Carlos latest reply WRT source code from books is public domain is... werid
<azeem> weird*
<mok0> azeem: oh, I haven't seen that
<azeem> mok0: you mean Carlos?
<azeem> "Thanks a lot Morten, I will have a good look at this library, although I
<azeem> think it would be ridiculous if I could not use a small piece of code
<azeem> written and explained in a general purpose book. I believe the code is
<azeem> essentially in the public domain...
<mok0> azeem: yes, I haven't seen his mail yet
<azeem> "
<mok0> azeem: hmm.
<mok0> azeem: He is probably right if he typed it from the book
<azeem> well, if GLE is really double-licensed under the GPL as COPYING claims, Carlos and we are on the safe sid
<azeem> e
<azeem> mok0: I don't think so, unless the book is in the public domain as well, which I doubt
<mok0> azeem: ok, but how do we persuade the release manager?
<Laney> james_w`: Here?
<Hobbsee> mok0: offer beer.
<azeem> mok0: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gle/ -> Details
<azeem> License : GNU General Public License (GPL), Public Domain
 * mok0 looks
<azeem> that was clearly filled in by the authors/project admins
<azeem> who is linas
<azeem> so personally, I think the GLE issue is not a big problem
<mok0> azeem: basically, the GLE folks just incorporated Linas' library
<mok0> azeem: ah wait
<mok0> azeem: he is the one maintaining it
<azeem> right
<azeem> so this should be safe, albeit clarification would be welcome
<azeem> the other issue might be more severe I guess
<azeem> btw, gl2ps is used in a couple of projects by now, I wonder whether it shouldn't be a library on its own, maybe
<mok0> azeem: I think Carlos should just credit the GLE project then, and cite the LGPL license in his code
<azeem> I think that's what he's going to do
<azeem> see 49468E59.4050707@ist.utl.pt
<mok0> azeem: wrt. Mark Kilgard's code it still needs to be settled
<azeem> Subject: Re: Fwd: [Debichem-devel] gamgi_0.13.9-1_i386.changes REJECTED
<azeem> yes
<Laney> james_w`: I'm going to send some of your patches to Debian now, to speed the transition along
<mok0> azeem: what is that 4946.... ?
<azeem> a message-id
<azeem> in which Carlos said he's going to credit the GLE project
<mrooney> Oh no, my package failed to install, apparently!
<mrooney> I fail.
<azeem> "Regarding the GLE code, I changed the copyright notice, that now comes as
<azeem> (in conformance with the GLE Sourceforge Details page):
<azeem> "
<mok0> azeem: ah, right
<azeem> anyway, the GLE issue looks solved, or is at most an annoyance
<mok0> azeem: yes
<coppro> anyone for REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metakit
<azeem> we could remove the PS output
<azeem> or hope Mark answers
<mok0> azeem: that would be the final solution
<coppro> actually, wait while the update gets processed
<mrooney> does anyone know if having a python app installed via setup.py --install, and then packaging it and attempting an install the package, cause it to fail?
<mok0> azeem: Carlos is really responsive which makes things a lot easier... I am confident we can resolve the last problem
<mok0> mrooney: It shouldn't if you use python-central
<azeem> mok0: I'm writing a response to that now
<azeem> btw, it's funny to read this in the GLE AUTHOS
<azeem> AUTHOS*
<azeem> bah
<coppro> ok, the update hit
<azeem> anyway:
<azeem> Contributors:
<azeem> Mark Kilgard <mjk@nvidia.com> formatted the man pages
<coppro> if you are really nice, you can go REVU now
<mok0> azeem: debian/copyright seems lacking
<azeem> mok0: for gle?
<mok0> azeem: yes
<azeem> yeah
<mok0> it doesn't mention the artistic license on the docs
<azeem> it certainly wouldn't go through these days
<mok0> azeem: probably not
<mok0> azeem: which is not bad
<azeem> I have to admit I was annoyed by the REJECT initially
<azeem> but now I have to admit that Carlos was quite sloppy ehre
<azeem> here*
<azeem> sent the mail
<mok0> azeem: I didn't catch the modification problem when I wrote the copyright. It's good that Frank did a careful job
<mok0> azeem: We can't trust upstream to get it right
<mok0> azeem: but Carlos seems determined to get it right, which is good for us
<azeem> yeah
<mok0> azeem: it also slipped by the ubuntu archive admin :-)
<azeem> yeah, it wasn't obvious at all
<azeem> but Frank only got appointed about a week ago, so I guess he's super-careful righ tnow
<mok0> azeem: he's doing a good job.
<mrooney> mok0: but you would expect it to fail if I were using python-support?
<mok0> mrooney: eerh.. no
<mok0> mrooney: how "fail"?
<mrooney> mok0: well the first sign of error seems to be: "pycentral: pycentral pkginstall: not overwriting local files"
<mrooney> right after Unpacking..., Setting up...
<mok0> mrooney: does the setup.py work by itself?
<mrooney> mok0: I am pretty sure, I can double check though
<mrooney> let me do that...
<coppro> anyone feeling up to a REVU?
<mrooney> mok0: yeah, I can run "sudo python setup.py install" as many times as I please without errors
<mok0> mrooney: ... and the files end up where they should?
<mrooney> mok0: yup, it seems to run perfectly and get all the icons and such
<mok0> mrooney: can you pastebin your debian/rules file?
<mrooney> sure!
<mrooney> mok0: http://pastebin.com/f328782bb
<mrooney> hm I just got an apport crash report for the .deb install but naturally I can't report it, I wonder if it still has useful information I can get
<ScottK-laptop> mrooney: What does setup.py look like?
<mrooney> ScottK-laptop: something approximately like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mrooney/wxbanker/0.4/annotate/88?file_id=setup.py-20081113200358-bni0acav33olhzf7-1 !
<ScottK-laptop> mrooney: I did on one occasion have to set up a custom binary install rule with python setup.py install --root $(CURDIR)/debian/$BINARY_PACKAGE_NAME in it.
<ScottK-laptop> That installed it in the right place for building the package.
<mrooney> hmmmm
<mrooney> ScottK-laptop: I am not sure that I understand that :)
<mrooney> I am quite new to packaging, alas
<ScottK-laptop> The --root command tells setup.py where to install the package.
<ScottK-laptop> For a regular install, it knows by default and generally with CDBS it does for Debian packages.
<ScottK-laptop> It may be you've confused CDBS somehow and need to tell it.
<ScottK-laptop> Dunno if it's actually relevant to your problem or not, but what I ended up with was http://paste.ubuntu.com/85914/
<mrooney> ScottK-laptop: what exactly...is that file? :)
<ScottK-laptop> That's part of my debian/rules.  See the pymilter package if you want to see the whole thing.
<ScottK-laptop> mrooney: ^^
<Elitest_> Hey erbody
<nhandler> geser: ping
<rosebuntu> hi~!!
<rosebuntu> i wan to be MOTU
<rosebuntu> say hi~
<Ahmuck> rosebuntu: topic ... there is where u start
<coppro> anyone for REVUing?
<rosebuntu> i want to be MOTU
 * ScottK notes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/NeedsPackagingBugs
 * ScottK grumbles, not again.
<TheMuso> ScottK-laptop: I am enclined to agree with you.
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> Hi dholbach
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> emgent, ping
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<Koon> Good morning world !
<dholbach> hey Koon
<Koon> Hello Daniel
<fabrice_sp> Hi doko_ Could you have a look at bug #296466?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296466 in python-central "[Sync request] Please sync Python-central 0.6.8 from Debian Lenny" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296466
<fabrice_sp> emgent, it was about bug #283013. I've been contacted by upstream becaue he wants to make the packaging. Have to go now. CU later
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283013 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ProjectX - transcode video to streams" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283013
<fabrice_sp> bye
<fabrice_sp> bad bug. Bug #279755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279755 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] remastersys" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279755
<fabrice_sp> chao
<pmjdebruijn> lo
<pmjdebruijn> I fixed my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun can anybody take a look / endorse it?
<hyperair> in case my messages didn't get through earlier - please review my packages "codelite" http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite and "sigx" http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sigx
<directhex> are any of them mono packages?
<willwill> hello, I just updated my package. please review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mbpurple
<directhex> 3 new sync bugs for today
<NCommander> directhex, need ACKs?
<directhex> NCommander, that'd be nice!
<NCommander> links?
<NCommander> links?
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> ...
<directhex> bug 308500 bug 308497 bug... bollocks, can't find the last one, it's a new package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308500 in gbrainy "Please sync gbrainy 1.00-2 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308500
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308497 in monodevelop "Please sync monodevelop 1.0+dfsg-4 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308497
<directhex> where does requestsync hide new package bugs?
<directhex> found it. bug 308498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308498 in ubuntu "Please sync banshee-extension-mirage 0.4.0-3 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308498
<Sp4rKy> wc
<sebner> directhex: meehh, need to wait until a server has it to testbuild. Are MD and banshee urgent? because you know, they will be autosynced the next few days ..
<directhex> sebner, autosynced from experimental?
<pochu> nope
<sebner> directhex: ah, I know I missed something ^^
 * sebner winks pochu =)
<pochu> hey sebner :)
<sebner> directhex: ACKed your stuff =)
<directhex> cheers
<directhex> need to fastsyncmergething sublib at some point today, so i can sync gnome-subtitles
<sebner> directhex: also joined MOTU-Mono group so I'll be the first one to ACK your bugs :P
<directhex> hurrah
<NCommander> directhex, archive admins can't do fast syncs, you need to make a debdiff and do it through standard sponsoring
<directhex> NCommander, yeah, i know. hence it's on my TODO, i'm not just making sebner do it
<NCommander> BTW, sebner, welcome to MOTU (belated :-))
<directhex> NCommander, how would you do the changelog - a fresh -0sync0 entry above the -1? or change the -1? or...
<sebner> NCommander: heh, thx :)
<NCommander> I usually put the entry above the old one. I recommend just using 0build0. s comes after u, it might not work correctly
<NCommander> (if you do it right, debuild will through a warning that the newest changelog is older the the previous one)
<sebner> or use dpkg --comapare-versions
<NCommander> s/through/throw/g
<NCommander> or that
<directhex> s comes after u?
<directhex> aptitude reinstall alphabet
<sebner> s t u
<sebner> nope ;)
<lidaobing> please help review iptux 0.4.3-0ubuntu1: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4268, thanks
<directhex> NCommander, so i should file the orig/dsc/diff against the non-existent package's LP page, or against "ubuntu"?
<NCommander> oh, crap, it will get stuck in the Ubuntu NEW queue
<NCommander> Then again, ours is moving
<directhex> yeah, i know. ubuntu NEW isn't something you need a sleeping bag for IME
<NCommander> Shove it on REVU, its going to need to be peered reviewed
 * NCommander thinks
<NCommander> I need an archive admin
<directhex> gah, it's not even my package
<DktrKranz> StevenK: mind looking at bug 303245? It has been processed, but it didn't appear on Intrepid yet.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303245 in intrepid-backports "Please backport amule-adunanza" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303245
<StevenK> I remember doing that one
 * StevenK prods cocoplum
<StevenK> DktrKranz: Yeah, source NEW in intrepid-backports. Accepted
 * DktrKranz hugs StevenK 
<StevenK> DktrKranz: :-)
<StevenK> DktrKranz: It will probably hit binary NEW after it builds, but I'll be sleeping.
<DktrKranz> StevenK: no problem. If it's not a problem for you, I'll bother you in a couple of days, or I'll wait for regular NEW processing.
<StevenK> DktrKranz: It doesn't show up in the usual NEW queue, you need to look for it
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<bobbo> In debdiffs, are changes to config.{sub,guess} supposed to be there? (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20280134/nss-updatedb_10-1ubuntu2.debdiff)
<RainCT> directhex: thanks
<directhex> hm?
<RainCT> directhex: for fixing the double build :P
<directhex> it's not perfect, but we'll worry about the fine detail later
<pmjdebruijn> I fixed the critique on my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun
<logari81> hi, I updated my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pdfshuffler, it is warning-free now.
<pochu> bobbo: no, that's likely due to a broken debian/rules
<bobbo> pochu: so they should be removed in "clean"?
<pochu> bobbo: yes
<pochu> either removed or restored to their previous state
<Extend> is there is a way to use external binary package in a package?
<pochu> what do you mean?
<Extend> y3ne i built a debian package for gsopcast
<Extend> it need "sp-sc-auth" a binary app required by this application
<Extend> so ?
<Extend> pochu, ?
<sebner> Extend: debian/control has a Depends file where you can mention your package dependency
<Extend> yes
<Extend> i know but there is no package contains the binary file sp-sc-auth
<pochu> you cannot depend on a package that does not exist then :)
<Extend> :'(
<Extend> i'm searching for sp-sc-auth src
<Extend> but no luck
<bobbo> If a package build-depends on a patchsys and has all the patchsys commands in debian/rules but doesnt actually have any patches (no debian/patches dir), should you remove all the patchsys stuff from the package?
<RainCT> bobbo: no, you can leave it there
<directhex> i'd leave it
<directhex> for the future!
<bobbo> hehe, thanks guys :)
<DktrKranz> mok0: re bug 271835, xtide-coastline has been introduced in Debian (and autosynced in Intrepid), so I guess xtide-wvs1-data (Ubuntu local package) is no longer necessary, am I right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271835 in xtide-wvs1-data "package xtide-wvs1-data None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/xtide-wvs1-data.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/xtide-wvs/wvs1.dat', which is also in package xtide-coastline" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271835
<mok0> DktrKranz: yes it can be killed
<DktrKranz> mok0: great, I'll ask for removal, unless you want to do it yourself
<mok0> DktrKranz: If you want the karma, please go ahead :-)
<DktrKranz> mok0: Launchpad karma is low, I think I gained a much higher "karma" from Real Life (tm). Thanks ;)
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> Hmm, what's a .ddeb file?
<superm1> mok0, a file with debug symbols for a package
<mok0> superm1: thanks. I've never met one of those before..
<slytherin> geser: any idea why java toolchain on hppa is broken?
<RainCT> directhex: before I get in touch with upstream again, have you tried if the gbrainy .deb works fine?
<RainCT> (I can't test it here because of the libc version.. *sigh*)
<slytherin> Is it mandatory to mention maintainer field change in debian/changelog?
<iulian> slytherin: Actually, you don't need to.
<RainCT> slytherin: not anymore
<slytherin> iulian: RainCT: that is what I was hoping for. :-)
<iulian> It's mentioned in the Ubuntu policy, if I'm not wrong.
<ScottK> slytherin: Actually it's highly discouraged.
<ScottK> iulian: It is.
<slytherin> ScottK: It was encouraged at some point of time in past, right?
<RainCT> slytherin: indeed, many sponsors requried it
<ScottK> Yes.
<geser> slytherin: no idea, and I was busy the last weeks so I'm not really up-to-date, I just manage to keep up to not get totally lost this cycle
<slytherin> geser: I guess I will have to ask doko.
<slytherin> who manages the ftbfs page? the LP urls for packages are broken?
<ScottK> wgrant is probably a good victim ^H^H^H^H^H^H person to talk to.
<slytherin> calc: Do you plan to upload the fixes to various java libraries as specified in bug 305790, or are you waiting for Debian to do the fixes?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305790 in suitesparse "MIR - move to main for openoffice.org 3 build-depends" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305790
<calc> slytherin: i'm patching them and submitting to debian (via my debian.org address) and will be uploading them to ubuntu soon after
<calc> since i'm not a part of the debian java team i'm not uploading them directly to debian
<slytherin> calc: I can commit then to debian-java svn if you can sponsor them.
<calc> slytherin: are you part of debian-java team?
 * calc wasn't 100% certain he was patching them the way the debian java team would want
<slytherin> calc: yes, but I am not developer so someone needs to sponsor the packages.
<calc> also debian is in a freeze so wasn't sure if it should be uploaded currently
<slytherin> calc: I believe it can be uploaded to unstable. As all the packages are blocked from entering into testing.
<calc> ok
<slytherin> calc: But even in that case I guess the processing will take loads of time. I suggest that we first do the changes in Ubuntu and then commit them one by one in Debian.
<slytherin> calc: I can help in doing changes in Ubuntu.
<calc> slytherin: shouldn't take me too much time to get the rest done
<calc> slytherin: i've done the changes then debdiff it and submit the bug to debian with the patch with the ubuntu specific bits stripped out
<slytherin> calc: Ok. Let me know if you need help. Meanwhile I am fixing other FTBFS.
<calc> ok
<calc> slytherin: if i run into anything non-obvious i'll let you know :)
<slytherin> sure
<Elitest_> Hey all
<wgrant> slytherin: Ehem, sorry. I shouldn't edit that page when asked late at night at UDS, it seems.
<slytherin> wgrant: no issues. I was just checking if anyone knew it was broken
<slytherin> Elitest_: hi
<slytherin> what are we supposed to do about the bugs in a package for which upstream is not traceable?
<ScottK> Fix them.
<ScottK> If upstream is dead/vanished, the package is unreasonably broken, it's not reasonably fixable, then it's time for removal.
<slytherin> ScottK: there is an app for configuring airport (as in Apple airport) base stations. It works with java 5 but not with 6. Even if I somehow fix it. I am not sure where to forward patches.
<imbrandon> there is no upstream bug tracker even ?
<imbrandon> ScottK: comming back for more BBQ this season ? :)
<slytherin> imbrandon: the only upstream reference I could find is in debian/copyright and that page no longer exists.
<ScottK-desktop> imbrandon: For a short visit, yes.
<imbrandon> slytherin: i would google a bit then, if no luck, just put the patches in ubuntu and maybe blog about it, then someone "might" pickup and make a "new" upstream tracker at google code or sf or something
<imbrandon> also pass them to debian of course
<slytherin> imbrandon: I will try.
<imbrandon> ScottK-desktop: sweet, we should catch some bbq again if you have time this trip :)
<imbrandon> my 30th bday is friday :)
<imbrandon> lol
<yann2> hello :) I am looking for someone who could make a launchpad account "ubuntero" - it got approved this morning. who should I speak to? (the case is a bit - special)
<imbrandon> i think you just need to sign the CoC for it to become ubuntero if i rember correctly
<Pici> I don't remember an approval process either.
<mgdm> I presume that's where the "special" bit comes in
<yann2> mmh not ubuntero then, maybe i wanted to say ubuntu member?
<yann2> it's basically to be able to add a feed to the planet
<imbrandon> ahh ok thats diffrent, the person / team that approved you will take care of it, normaly takes 24 hours or so
<imbrandon> or did
<yann2> the "special" tag being, it's for a corporate blog, following this : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu/CorporateBlogs and the meeting from this morning
<yann2> and I just created the launchpad account, so I guess nobody will approve it :)
<yann2> I think this may be the first corporate launchpad account in fact...
<imbrandon> i doubt that :)
<imbrandon> maybe the first solely for a blog :)
<yann2> good then I didn't totally messed up with creating the account, i wasn't sure :)
<imbrandon> anyhow processes is still the same, you goto whomever approved your membership and tell them the LP account name
<yann2> it's not solely for a blog, PPA will be good.
<yann2> well they didnt approve the account, they approved blog membership - is that the same thing?
<imbrandon> then that person(s) will pass the info to the TB and the TB will eventiualy make your LP account part of the team
<imbrandon> yann2: not exactly, they only approve membership, blogs and ppa and @ubuntu.com email and such are all "perks" that come with membership
<yann2> actually I think sabfdl approved me, wish me good luck to try to catch him... I'll see if I can find anyone a bit more accessible
<imbrandon> it would have been a team yann2 , one sabdfl was likely part of like CC or such
<yann2> imbrandon > I went through the community council though, not the usual approval process, with that request: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda/talk
<imbrandon> what meeting did you attend ?
<yann2> see I told you it was a bit special ;)
<yann2> CC meeting, 11am this morning
<imbrandon> right, then in this case email the CC and inform them of the LP account
<imbrandon> they only approve membership, blogs and ppa and @ubuntu.com email and such are all "perks" that come with membership
<yann2> right, you got an email for the CC?
<yann2> I know, being a member myself...
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members
<imbrandon> and i "think" communitycouncil@ubuntu.com works as an alias to email the whole team, i could be wrong though
<RainCT> imbrandon: PPA is for everyone
<bddebian> Everyone that likes crack :)
<imbrandon> RainCT: right right
<yann2> trying to pm them first... we'll see if I am lucky...
<imbrandon> ahhh yann2
<yann2> damn
<imbrandon> after reading that wiki page
<imbrandon> it looks like "you" are the corperate sponsor
<imbrandon> soooo
<slytherin> calc: did you intentionally add ${misc:Depends} to dependency of jtidy?
<yann2> well pretty much yes :)
<imbrandon> that LP account would not add the feed to the bzr branch, you would
<yann2> well that's the tricky bit
<imbrandon> why?
<yann2> what if I want to open my own blog? :(
<imbrandon> sure, you can add anything to the bzr branch as a member
<yann2> or maybe i can add two blogs then?
<imbrandon> your just sponsoring the corp blog too
<imbrandon> yes
<yann2> riiiight. yes that makes sense then :)
<imbrandon> you can add 5,10,100000 as long as they abide by the rules and are approved etc
<slytherin> calc: AFAIK, ${misc:Depends} is unnecessary for java packages.
<yann2> are there any, approved moral persons?
<yann2> we've not been huuuge contributors so far, but my little finger tells me that may arrive one day.
<imbrandon> huh ?
<calc> slytherin: it clears up the lintian warnings about using debhelper without using its replacement variables
<calc> slytherin: i suppose if you don't want lintian clean packaging it can be dropped
<imbrandon> overides :)
 * imbrandon ducks
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Anyone wanting to review dvdstyler (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler)?
<slytherin> calc: I believe that variable is redundant for java packages. And I am sure lintian is not very smart about java packages.
<slytherin> calc: and warning != error. :-)
<directhex> how are things in java land today?
<slytherin> directhex: openjdk has replaced GCJ as default java on almost all arch. :-)
<slytherin> directhex: and calc is working in putting some java libs in main as they are build deps for OOo3.
<directhex> but not runtime deps?
<calc> well its not using openjdk but default-jre so if gcj is still default somewhere it will use that
<calc> most platforms default-jre == openjdk
<slytherin> calc: That is what I meant. for most arch default-jre = openjdk
<slytherin> geser: I have finally decided to log bug about libjboss-web-services-java issue. I got no reply on mailing list as well as #debian-java on OFTC.
<calc> btw anyone know how to make evolution redirect draft/sent to imap folders in intrepid?
<calc> it seems to just be outright broken
<yann2> anyway imbrandon  thanks for your help ;) I am a bit more enlightened now.
<yann2> it's a bit scary to blog on the planet ubuntu as representative of an enterprise, hope it'll be alright :)
<directhex> how successful is the "ignore it and it'll go away" strategy for packages?
<imbrandon> directhex: huh ?
 * directhex is wondering whether to give up on an evil package & request removal from the debian archive
<imbrandon> ahh lol
<ScottK> slytherin: misc depends is not actually used for any packages right now, but is being pre-deployed for all packages using debhelper for in the future when it may be smart enough to add depends.
<slytherin> ScottK: I thought python packages used it.
<ScottK> slytherin: No, python:Depends
<slytherin> ScottK: it is still redundant if that is the only lintian warning, IMHO.
<ScottK> slytherin: It's unneeded up until it's not.
<directhex> :)
<directhex> oh yeah, that second patch for kde4bindings
<directhex> bugger
<imbrandon> apt-cache search smstools
<imbrandon> grrr
<ajmitch> imbrandon is alive?
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe yea, just now getting back in the IRC mood
<imbrandon> been way too long
<ajmitch> welcome back :)
<ajmitch> how are things?
<imbrandon> good good, found out this week that I am offered a position in London :)
<imbrandon> a 2 year trip
<ajmitch> oh that's nice
<imbrandon> thought that might be kinda cool
<imbrandon> same company i already work for, we just "bought out" another UK company "GT" and are re-branding them to our name etc
<imbrandon> sooooo i get to move to London and work on Drupal for 2 years ( assuming I take it, but chances are very high )
<imbrandon> u?
<ajmitch> still in dunedin, same job, nothing changes
<imbrandon> ajmitch: buy the expansion yet ( WoW ) ?
<imbrandon> i found a horrific bug in the intel vid drivers ( linux ) and WotLK Expansion and have to play in OSX for the moment :(
<directhex> file that bug?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, playing a little bit
<imbrandon> directhex: definately , as always
<slytherin> directhex: did you fix ikvm build in sane manner i.e. not copying openjdk snapshot source?
<jack_> I saw some video tutorial on youtube for package building. But I got problems with the gpg key...
<jack_> http://pastebin.com/m1851090b
<jack_> I followed the instructions in the video tutorial
<jack_> I also didn't find a .bashrc file, so I made one my own...
<jack_> and I got problems with less /var/cache/pbuilder/result/package.deb
<jack_> he is saying, it's a binary file are you sure? If I type yes, I got really unreadable signs...
<jack_> thanks in advance
<bobbo> does anyone know Sebastian Bachers IRC nick (or is he here?)
<pochu> bobbo: seb128
<bobbo> pochu: thanks :)
<pochu> bobbo: he's in -devel, -desktop and -bugs when he's online
<pochu> np :)
<slytherin> jack_: why do you want to do less with a deb file?
<jack_> slytherin, thats what I saw in the tutorial
<slytherin> jack_: the problem you are seeing with gpg key is probably because the address in latest entry debian/changelog is not your email address.
<slytherin> jack_: which tutorial is that?
<jack_> slytherin, youtube ubuntu-motu tutorial
<slytherin> jack_: Sorry, but I am too tired now. I hope someone else will help you.
<jack_> k
<geser> jack_: have you '[ -x /usr/bin/lesspipe ] && eval "$(lesspipe)"' in your ~/.bashrc?
<jack_> geser, no
<jack_> it was an empty file, made by myself
<geser> if it's empty, then copy /etc/skel/.bashrc to ~/.bashrc
<geser> you should get the default one back
<jack_> skel is empty here
<jack_> ctr H ok...
<jack_> ok, thanks
<jack_> is it possible to become an maintainer of one package which is now not in Ubuntu?
<RainCT> jack_: in Debian yes, in Ubuntu there aren't Maintainers
<jack_> mmh ok...
<pochu> jack_: but you could get it uploaded, and then take care of it
<pochu> that's pretty much like maintaining it :)
<jack_> ok I see
<pochu> RainCT: and there are maintained packages, e.g. gajim :-)
<jack_> I 'm right when I say I can build packages for intrepid on Hardy?
<pochu> with a chroot, yes
<jack_> And build packages without having the dependencies/ -devs installed?
<RainCT> pochu: well, but being in the Maintainer field in an Ubuntu package isn't the same as being in a Debian package
<jack_> How about building a kernel in a chroot?
<pochu> jack_: no, you need the build-dependencies to build packages
<RainCT> pochu: (my name is also in the Maintainer field of some Ubuntu-only package, btw :))
<jack_> pochu, ok
<Nafallo> EY!
<Nafallo> hi
<pochu> RainCT: merge gajim with Debian and you will have Nafallo in your inbox :-)
<Nafallo> someone mentioned my package ;-)
<pochu> hey Nafallo ;)
<RainCT> pochu: :D
<jack_> and how about my kernel question?
<Nafallo> phone, brb
<RainCT> pochu: is this a challenge? :P
<pochu> jack_: I think you can, but I have never build a kernel :-)
<pochu> RainCT: maybe, but I don't assume the consequences ;)
<emgent> pochu: heya :)
<Nafallo> back
<Nafallo> I think we're never than Debian, aren't we?
<directhex> really don't build a kernel without a damn good reason, because you really will have nasty integration issues
<directhex> generally speaking, use make-kpkg (from kernel-package) to generate debs
<directhex> if memory serves
<directhex> this is going back a good few years to my debian days
<pochu> hey hey emgent :-)
<pochu> emgent: did you go to California?
<directhex> so were's UDS 2009 then?
<mgdm> you house.
<mgdm> err. your.
<directhex> i have a 2 bedroom coachhouse.
<mgdm> plenty of space ;)
<pochu> if there's no bikeshed to discuss its colour, then it's not a good place :)
<mgdm> heheh
<nhandler> geser: Thanks a lot for finally getting around to responding to my application :)
<x1250> I had to comment the following like in debian/rules for inkscape (svn) to build properly:
<x1250> # cd po; intltool-update -p
<x1250> with that line compiling died with:
<x1250> xgettext: error while opening "./../share/filters/filters.svg.h" for reading: No such file or directory
<x1250> but only using pbuilder. Compiling it by hand, ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make, worked ok.
<x1250> is there a real problem with commenting the offending line in debian/rules?
<x1250> may I do it without any fear some other thing may break?
<geser> nhandler: I hoped I find the time to vote on it but it doesn't look like so I at least didn't want to delay it even further
<nhandler> geser: I already have 3 +1's, so it isn't a huge deal
<nhandler> Do I now just wait to be added to the team on LP?
<jmarsden|work> x1250: Most likely you have a missing build dependency.  Try dpkg -S /usr/share/filters/filters.svg.h to see what package installed that file on your machine, maybe?
<x1250> jmarsden|work, share/filters/ is inside inkscape svn checkout copy, but anyway I ran the command, but no results, the same with apt-file.
<x1250> the man says:
<x1250> intltool-update - updates PO template file and merge translations with it
<jmarsden|work> x1250: Hmmm.  I'd guess that you probably need to talk to the original develeopers... commenting out the internationalisation could leave you with a package that works fine only in USA/English locales, or something along those lines.
<x1250> jmarsden|work, I think they use a python script in share/filters
<x1250> i18n.py
<x1250> well, I have a spanish desktop here, so I'll check If I have any problems after the build, thanks for your time
<jmarsden|work> x1250: Sure.  I'm not familiar with inkscape at all... so either you decide you know it well enough to go for it, or contact the upstream folks who know all about that code...
<geser> nhandler: yes, I guess dholbach will process it tomorrow (when he has read my (non-)voting)
<nhandler> Thanks again geser
<geser> thanks for your patience
<hyperair> can anyone review my packages http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sigx and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=codelite
<hyperair> ?
<x1250> what would be the difficuly of building a inkscape-svn package, with no conflicting files (i.e different executable name, install dirs, etc) with inkscape main?
<azeem> x1250: what purpose for?
<azeem> or rather, what's the use-case?
<x1250> non for me, but some people have asked me for it, and I would like to learn how to do so too.
<x1250> azeem, that is.
<azeem> well
<azeem> what's the problem with providing updated package via a PPA?
<azeem> do people want to install both at the same time?  Is there a problem with migrating settings/options to/fro the svn version?
<ScottK> azeem: As long as you're willing so support the users, then I don't think it's a major problem.
<x1250> azeem, I am using a PPA and I update inkscape like once a week in there. Uhm, maybe you have a good point there.
<azeem> ScottK: well ok, just wondering whether the parallel-installable trouble is worth the benefit
<azeem> if people can just revert to hardy/intrepid/jaunty if the PPA breaks, it's not a problem
<ScottK> In general I think it's better for that reason.  Downgrading is harder if it replaces the distro package.
<x1250> well, to be honest I just wanted to learn more about packaging, and this seemed like a good excuse :). Till now my experience has been "updating" existing packages, and this seemed to be a nice way to get to learn a little more, without creating a package from scratch.
<x1250> I'm an inkscape user myself, and thats why I'm packaging svn versions.
<azeem> x1250: personally, I think getting this right is more difficult than a package from scratch
<azeem> cause you need to think about user configuration (if there is any in inkscape, which I guess is the case), possible caches etc. as well
<x1250> well, in that case I guess I'll try doing a package from scratch. How can I search launchpad for programs are not currently packaged and people want them on jaunty?
<mrooney> x1250: the tag 'needs-packaging'
<x1250> mrooney, great thanks
<mrooney> x1250: have fun, there are a lot :)
<x1250> ok thanks, lol :)
<serialorder> After merging eclipse 3.2.2-6 it FTBFS in pbuilder
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-17
<serialorder> I think I have fixed the problem but my question is if i should file that as a seperate bug in LP or post as part of the merge request
<ScottK> Part of the merge
<serialorder> ok thanks ScottK
<serialorder> if a package i merged failed to build on two different architectures should I open two bugs in lp or just one?
<serialorder> also what should I do if I (think) I have found fixes for the problem but cant build since I don't have those architectures?
<nhandler> emgent: ping
<emgent> pong
<nhandler> emgent: Why don't you have anyone seeding the nubuntu torrent?
<emgent> it`s fresh upload
<nhandler> emgent: Ok, so someone will be seeding it soon?
<coppro> anyone for REVU?
<emgent> use mirror :P
<nhandler> emgent: I will. I normally prefer to use a torrent, but I guess a mirror will have to do
<emgent> nhandler: yeah, but i suggest to use download button
<freakabcd> hi guys
<freakabcd> can someone please do a new build of evolution?
<freakabcd> for hardy
<Nafallo> ?
<freakabcd> because the one supplied doesn;t work with exchange :(
<freakabcd> i mean newer than the version supplied (2.24.2 ?)
<freakabcd> or soemone help me build the src package from jaunty in my hardy installation
<ScottK> !backports | freakabcd
<ubottu> freakabcd: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<serialorder> a package I merged FTBFS on the ia64 and sparc architectures
<serialorder> i found some fixes from upstream and patched the package
<serialorder> i dont run those architectures though so i can testbuild
<serialorder> cant*
<serialorder> how should i proceed?
<Hobbsee> serialorder: good questoin.
<serialorder> Hobbsee: bad answer
<serialorder> hehe no im just joking
<Hobbsee> serialorder: i'm still thinking.
<Hobbsee> serialorder: what you can do is ask on the list if anyone's got some hardware that you can get an ssh account on, to run it
<Hobbsee> you can try putting it in the sponsorship queue, but it's likely that it'll sit for a while, as most people will be in your situation
<StevenK> Or put your source somewhere and say "Please test build this"
<Hobbsee> (they don't have the HW, they don't have the technical knowledge to check if it's correct)
<Hobbsee> that too
<serialorder> ok i guess I will try and find a home for it somewhere and send a request to the list to test build
<ScottK> NCommander: You got IA64?
<NCommander> I have access to one
<serialorder> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/protobuf/+bug/308829
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308829 in protobuf "protobuf 2.0.2-1 (universe) FTBFS on ia64 and sparc" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ScottK> NCommander: Need to test an FTBFS fix ...
<serialorder> i actually have to leave now, library is closing on me
<serialorder> thanks for the help
<NCommander> cya serialorder
 * NCommander looks for his IA64 keys
<serialorder> ill probably be back tomorrow =)
<NCommander> Anyone from SRU awake?
<dcypherd> hey ppl I had a couple of packaging questions
<dcypherd> are programs like aircrack-ng and metasploit not in the repos because someone needs to make them or are there other reasons
<dcypherd> ?
<crimsun> dcypherd: aircrack-ng has been in universe
<crimsun> (since feisty from the looks of rmadison)
<crimsun> dcypherd: you may wish to inspect nubuntu for packages such as metasploit
<dcypherd> thx
<dcypherd> forgot about nubuntu
<crimsun> dcypherd: see also debian 323420 for metasploit's itp
<ubottu> Debian bug 323420 in wnpp "advanced platform for developing, testing, and using exploit code" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/323420
<nellery> iulian: Hi, are you planning on doing the httrack merge?
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> morning Daniel!
<iulian> nellery: Please do it. I took a peek at it yesterday and obviously forgot about it.
<iulian> Good morning Daniel.
<nellery> iulian: thanks a lot
<iulian> Thank you.
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> :-) How are you doing this morning?
<dholbach> very good - how are you?
<fabrice_sp> Very good also, thanks :-)
<fabrice_sp> Just have to leave to go to work :-/
<fabrice_sp> bye
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: have a great day!
<geser> good morning
<iulian> Heya geser.
<dholbach> stgraber: CONGRATULATIONS!
<didrocks> morning o/
<mgdm> "libdmtx 0.6.0-1 is in Ubuntu already" - it wasn't when I filed the bug with the patch :)
<dholbach> mgdm: for sync (overwrite current ubuntu package with newest from Debian) requests, just use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess the next time :)
<dholbach> (so you don't need to attach a patch to it)
<mgdm> dholbach: Nice one, thanks. I didn't know about that, and did the patch for practice anyway
<dholbach> anytime :)
<mgdm> I have another couple of things that aren't in Debian to do though
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<mgdm> I have read that one, my current issue is a bizarre build system in one of them
<dholbach> ah ok
<mgdm> with luck I'll get them done tomorrow
<mgdm> well, sent to REVU anyway
 * norsetto wonders why its so quiet in here ...
 * dholbach hugs norsetto
<dholbach> hey norsetto
 * norsetto hugs master mixer dholbach back :-)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<norsetto> dholbach: fine, at least I will be at home for a couple of days
<norsetto> dholbach: and you? Still freezing in Berlin ?
<dholbach> yeah, it's 4Â°C here
<dholbach> but I'm fine :)
<DktrKranz> hi dholbach, norsetto! long time no see! :)
<dholbach> hiya DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> norsetto: how about Tiber and rivers?
<mok0> norsetto!
<norsetto> DktrKranz: Glou, glou, glou :-)
<norsetto> mok0: hey!!!
<sebner> norsetto: \o/
<norsetto> mok0: I must confess something to you, something really really shaming ...
<DktrKranz> norsetto: don't drink Tiber, or you'll get drunk soon. If you want your driving license to get burst, have some beer instead! :)
 * DktrKranz is looking at Po right now, hoping not to "glou glou glou" himself too
<norsetto> sebner: hi seb!
<mok0> norsetto?
<sebner> norsetto: +ner  ^ ^
<sebner> norsetto: long time no see. how are you? =)
<sebner> DktrKranz: drink and drive ^^
<norsetto> mok0: you know, you convinced me to use emacs, and I actually LIKE it
<norsetto> sebner: pretty fine, and you?
<mok0> norsetto: :-)
<mok0> norsetto: It has some really nice debian modes too
<mok0> norsetto: did you install those?
<norsetto> mok0: yes, I saw your bug on emacs-goodies-el :-)
<mok0> norsetto: hehe
<mok0> It's a one-byte patch :-)
<norsetto> mok0: those are the hardest ones ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: some days ago we had 3meters of snow ^^ my poor back. :( geeks are poor ^^
<mok0> norsetto: yeah, several kilobytes of overhead
<norsetto> sebner: must be cool going to school by skying
<mok0> sebner: why bother? snow melts you know
<norsetto> sebner: here they are going to school by boat now ...
<sebner> norsetto: heh, well, I finished school in summer already
<sebner> mok0: sure but when there are already 2 meters of snow and you have to put another meter somewhere ...
<jack_> what is a good way to check a build package? On a video tutorial I saw: less /var/cache/pbuilder/result/package.deb but that doesn work her
<mok0> sebner: I see your point... perhaps: cat snow > /dev/null
<norsetto> sebner: oh well, going to work then, or whatever else is it you up in the mountains once school is over ...
<sebner> mok0: I'll tell the snow next time
<mok0> sebner: yeah, just stand there with the pipe while it's snowing
<sebner> norsetto: heh, currently (since 2 months) I'm on vacation  ^  ^ Next month I'll start my basic military service
<sebner> mok0: xD
 * norsetto stands on attention and salutes
<mok0> sebner: uh oh
<sebner> norsetto: no mercy? =)
<jack_> ??
<norsetto> DktrKranz: see, you should do some time in the army too, it will straighten your dorsal spine ...
<sebner> DktrKranz: hahaha!
<norsetto> jack_: what do you mean by check, checking the build log or the content of the resulting binaries?
<jack_> norsetto, Iá¸¿ not sure...
<jack_> I saw it in the youtube tutorial...
<norsetto> jack_: well, no idea what tutorial is that, in any case, for the first case you have to tell pbuilder to log into a log file (I think --log its the option for that)
<norsetto> jack_:  the latter case use dpkg -c on the resulting .debs (deb is the extension for our binary packages, can' t use less on those)
<jack_> you give the --log option when building with pbuilder?
<norsetto> jack_: right, but don' t quote me on that, I'm not on my machine now, can't check it myself (you can check it by doing man pbuilder on yours)
<jack_> ok
<jack_> I also saw this command, but couldn t see what it was exactly, it was used to check the people with copyright or who worked on the app
<jack_> find . -name '*.C' | xargs heac | less
<norsetto> jack_: man is your friend (ok, I'm old fashioned but even a youngster like mok0 should agree...)
<mok0> licensecheck
<norsetto> jack_: err, you know what a pipe is?
<jack_> norsetto, no
<mok0> puff puff
<jack_> a puff puff, yes I puff know
<mok0> jack_: if you're talking about dholbach's tutorial on YouTube, he was using licensecheck
<jack_> mmh ok...
<jack_> then he did it nicely hidden....
<norsetto> jack_: maybe you should read something like this: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Unix/
<mok0> jack_: find . -name '*.C' | xargs head | less  will list the first 10 lines of every file that ends with ".C"
<jack_> ok
<mok0> jack_: and display it in the pager
<jack_> ok, I'll check the teaching link...
<jack_> one question remains...
<norsetto> jack_: pls. do, it will help you a lot I think
<jack_> let assume there is a outdated package in Ubuntu, for example https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=nted&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupe
<jack_> s=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=
<jack_> wow....
<jack_> I mean for example the package nted on launchpad...
<jack_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nted/+bug/253378
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253378 in nted "Please update to latest version (1.3.0)" [Undecided,New]
<norsetto> jack_: just give a bug number, ubotu will fetch the link for you
<jack_> Let assume I want to have a newer version and maintain it.... how can I do it?
<jack_> maintain = keep it up to date in Ubuntu
<norsetto> jack_: well, you would have to prepare the update, subscribe the sponsors for approval, and then subscribe to the package to keep up to date with bugs
<jack_> and is an update only for the new version of Ubuntu or can I ask for an update in Intrepid?
<norsetto> jack_: only for the current development version (right now jaunty). But once there a backport can be looked up
<jack_> norsetto, ok, so if a package is in the development release (jaunty) a backport can be looked up, or is it only possible after jaunty is official released?
<norsetto> jack_: once is there it can be done
<jack_> norsetto, ok thanks. Where can I find info how to make a backport package?
<norsetto> jack_: hmm, I don' t have links here readily available, just a sec
<jack_> k
<norsetto> jack_: its a new page (the one I remembered was on the wiki) but this should do too: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<jack_> norsetto, ok thanks!
<norsetto> jack_:  np
<jack_> I like the system to build a chroot and be able to build packages. Are they build kernels for different computers the same way? By building a chroot? Where can I find info about it?
<jack_> or contact people about it
<norsetto> jack_: I guess you talk about cross-compiling
<jack_> norsetto, I mean, for building a kernel you have a lot of (-dev) packages installed isn t it? so do solve that problem with a chroot?
<norsetto> jack_: I don' t think that you need a lot of stuff to build a kernel actually
<jack_> norsetto, ok I'll  check it out....
<norsetto> jack_: at least from memory (last I build one was more than a year ago)
<jack_> k
<norsetto> tseliot: Hola! How is the nvidia wizard doing?
<tseliot> norsetto: I'm trying to recover from jet-lag but otherwise I'm very happy about how the UDS went
<norsetto> tseliot: was it better than the one in Prague?
<tseliot> norsetto: definitely
<norsetto> tseliot: glad to hear that
<jack_> can you use prevu to build official backport packages?
<jack_> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268687
<jack_> ok I see the answer is yes...
<jack_> how do you use pbuilder to make a backport package?
<stgraber> dholbach: thanks
 * nxvl HUGS norsetto 
<norsetto> nxvl: hola bandido!
<mok0> jack_: you need to specify the -proposed repo in the --othermirror switch
<mok0> jack_: if I understood your question
<jack_> mok0, and how can I do that?
<mok0> jack_: if the package you are building is for backports, you need to put that in the changelog entry: e.g. interpid-backports
<jack_> mok0, ok and do I use the jaunty version of the package? How do I get that package?
<mok0> jack_: eerrr what package? The one you're building?
<jack_> mok0, there is already a package of the version in Jaunty which will be backported... that package
<jack_> or do you use just a tar.gz file from the makers website?
<mok0> jack_: and you want to backport it to intrepid?
<jack_> mok0, yes
<mok0> jack_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#Source%20Change%20Backports
<mok0> jack_: make a new changelog entry describing the backport
<mok0> jack_: and name the version like it is described in that document
<mok0> jack_: then you need to see if it builds AND works on the target distro
<jack_> mok0, ok but Iá¸¿ not a Motu, and I just use the tar.gz?
<jack_> so nothing with the Jaunty package?
<mok0> jack_: you have the package from jaunty, I presume
<jack_> mok0,  how do I get that?
<mok0> jack_: you add this changelog entry to the jaunty package
<mok0> jack_: go to packages.ubuntu.com
<mok0> jack_: get the source package (3 files)
<jack_> mok0, ah, not the deb
<mok0> jack_: no the source package
<mok0> jack_: it includes upstreams tarball
<jack_> mok0, .dsc, orig.tar.gz and diff.gz?
<mok0> jack_: yes
<mok0> jack_: in fact all you need to fetch is the .dsc
<mok0> jack_: then use dget -xu <file.dsc>
<jack_> mok0, ah ok, I see... so it's almost the same as updating a package?
<mok0> jack_: yes
<jack_> mok0, could you describe the steps for me?
<mok0> jack_: except the newer version may have dependencies that are not available in the older distro
<mok0> jack_: and that's what you must check to make sure it will compile
<jack_> mok0, and what to do in that case?
<mok0> jack_: then you can't backport
<jack_> mok0, ok
<mok0> jack_: time is unidirectional, unfortunately :-)
<jack_> mok0, here are some notes for updating a packages: http://pastebin.com/m1ec1eceb
<mok0> jack_: but often it will work
<jack_> mok0, :)
<jack_> mok0, what is different between the notes and backporting?
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> jack_: there are several differences
<mok0> jack_: but it depends what version of Ubuntu your are working on
<mok0> jack_: in a way, backporting is simpler
<jack_> mok0, ok, now on Intrepid...
<mok0> jack_: ok, so first of all you can't get the source package from jaunty using "apt-get source ..."
<jack_> mok0, check
<mok0> jack_: because that will get you the intrepid version
<jack_> mok0, yes
<mok0> jack_: so you have to get the source package from packages.ubuntu.com
<jack_> mok0, check
<mok0> then you go into packagexx/debian and edit changelog
<mok0> jack_: make a new entry, e.g. "backported from jaunty"
<hannesw> can somebody here help me with a basic packaging question?
<hannesw> is there a way to controll how changed files are handled?
<jack_> mok0, ok
<mok0> jack_: and you make sure the version number in the top changelog entry is appropriate according to the link I gave you above
<hannesw> i.e. overwritten or not, or prompting the user which version to keep
<jack_> mok0, ok
<mok0> jack_: then you build a new source package
<mok0> jack_: debuild -S -sa
<jack_> mok0, ok
<mok0> jack_: that will give you a new .dsc file
<mok0> jack_: and you pass that to pbuilder
<jack_> mok0, yes
<jack_> mok0, ok
<mok0> jack_: ... that's it
<mok0> jack_: (if you're lucky :-))
<jack_> mok0, thanks! :) should I check the build file?
<mok0> jack_: sure
<jack_> mok0, how
<mok0> jack_: never mind, it doesn't matter if the build succeeds
<jack_> mok0, ok
<mok0> jack_: then you install the package and check that the program works
<jack_> mok0, ok
<mok0> jack_: if you want to submit it to Ubuntu, you make a debdiff between the "old" and "backported" versions, and attach that to a bug request in LP
<jack_> mok0, how do I make a debdiff?
<mok0> jack_: we'll save that for next lesson. Now go and make your backport.
<jack_> mok0, ok thanks :)
<mok0> hannesw: debconf
<hannesw> mok0: thanks
<hannesw> so i just use dh_installdebconf in debian rules instead of dh_install?
<mok0> hannesw: no you need to use both. But TBH, I've never used debconf so I don't know the details. You
<mok0> will have to ask Mr. Google
<hannesw> mok0: thanks, will do.
<sirderigo> hello everybody, i am interested in start packaging software for ubuntu
<MagicFab> sirderigo, a good start may be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<sirderigo> why? because this is a good way to help, and because i dont like to compile software when i need it, but i can do it, but i am pretty sure, what a lot of people cant do it,
<pmjdebruijn> I've fixed my package again http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun I'd like a new review...
<luckyone> Dear MOTU, The new 64-bit package for pulseaudio that hit repos last night is such an amazing improvement. I want to sincerely thank everyone who played a part in putting it together. Best regards, luckyone!
<slytherin> luckyone: which repos? for jaunty?
<handschuh> slytherin: intrepid
 * slytherin checks
<slytherin> luckyone: pulseaudio is in main, so you should probably thank people on #ubuntu-devel. :-)
<skorasaurus> hi everybody.
<skorasaurus> im followed the youtube learning MOTU video, and I have a question regarding pbuilder.
<skorasaurus> pbuilder is reporting my distribution as jaunty instead of intrepid.
<skorasaurus> after i ran 'sudo pbuilder create' for the first time, the prompt said 'distribution is jaunty' even though i'm running intrepid :/
<Nafallo> skorasaurus: what distribution in the chroot though?
<skorasaurus> Nafallo, how do i determine that, i didnt set anything ever to jaunty.
<skorasaurus> AFIAK, of course.
<skorasaurus> AFAIK*
<Nafallo> but you know what distribution you told pbuilder to create, no?
<skorasaurus> not sure.
<skorasaurus> i download the necessary pkgs in apt-get, and my sources are set for intrepid.
<skorasaurus> and i created pbuilderrc
<Nafallo> grep for jaunty in your pbuilderrc then
<skorasaurus> nothing 'jaunty' in pbuilderrc
<skorasaurus> pbuilderrc is COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<skorasaurus> hi, i was going to make my first package and i chose one from the 'needs-packaging' in lp
<skorasaurus> was = am
<mok0> skorasaurus: go on
<skorasaurus> and there's already a .deb (generic debian) file and i don't know how to build a package (for ubuntu) using that.
<skorasaurus> i found the directions to build from src
<mok0> skorasaurus: that's what you want to do
<skorasaurus> but not to use an existing deb (i presume its easier to use an existing deb)
<skorasaurus> even though the program creator has a generic deb on his website ?/
<mok0> skorasaurus: a .deb file normally contains the binary code for a program, so it needs to be right for the Ubuntu version you have
<mok0> skorasaurus: another thing is if you can trust it if it's not from the official archive
<skorasaurus> mok0, i understand the reason for trust (to be hesitant to use the deb package), but the .deb package was on the developer's website
<mok0> skorasaurus: you can try to install it
<skorasaurus> i'm not trying to be hard on you or disagree for the sake of it, im just trying to understand :)
<mok0> skorasaurus: I know
<skorasaurus> should I just ignore the deb on the dev's website and get the source instead then ?
<mok0> skorasaurus: yeah why not?
<mok0> skorasaurus: you can learn how to build the binary packages
<skorasaurus> k
<mok0> skorasaurus: perhaps you know that already
<iulian> Hey
<skorasaurus> hi.
<skorasaurus> there isn't a source package in the repository for my package.
<skorasaurus> wait, nevermind, think i figured out.
 * skorasaurus is an obvious newbie.
<mok0> heh
<skorasaurus> so, i'm reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20With%20CDBS and
<pmjdebruijn> can anybody take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lensfun I'd like to get endorsed, if there are no remaining issues
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I'll bit
<mok0> bite
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: are you upstream?
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I'm not a Debian developer
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I made this package from scratch
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: first for private use... then I fixed it for inclusion into Ubuntu
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: never mind I was asking if you are the author of the lensfun program
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: oh no sorry
<mok0> library sorry
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's a library that can be used with the ufraw raw conversion program
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I did have some previous packaging experience... though I never really used lintian... so I'm getting used to that... the lensfun package should be lint free now (finally)
<mok0>  pmjdebruijn: well that's a step forward :-)
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I had a lot of "little" things to fix
<pmjdebruijn> no big issues
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: there is one big issue
<pmjdebruijn> which is?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: missing copyright from upstream
<pmjdebruijn> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/lensfun-0812151457/lensfun-0.2.3/debian/copyright
<pmjdebruijn> what's wrong with that?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: we can't distribute without it
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I don't see what I'm missing
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: you will need to contact him
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: for what?
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it says Copyright (c) 2007-2008 Andrew Zabolotny
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: to put GPL clauses in source files + place a COPYING file in the tarball
<pmjdebruijn> oh
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: yeah :-(
<pmjdebruijn> now I understand
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: ok, that not a big problem, I can ask Andrew about that... he seems responsive...
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: but there are no other issues?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: A lot of packaging work is communicating with upstream distributors.
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: no problem...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: oh, I'm not that fast
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I need to check to see if CCPL is compatible with DFSG
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: Ubuntu has other CCPL licensed content I thing
<pmjdebruijn> think*
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: yes
<pmjdebruijn> so there should be an issue there...? right?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: no worries, CC-SA 3.0 is compatible it seems
<pmjdebruijn> shouldn't
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<mok0> There are also bits of code that are MIT/X11 (BSD-like)
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: in tools/makedep/
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: but the code in libs/lensfun only has copyright for Zabolotny, no license
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's GPL3 if I'm not mistaken, but I have already contacted Andrew about this
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I'll put all my notes on REVU for your reference later
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: It's good if you're in contact with him
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: otherwise packaging looks good
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I just hope he has some times this month... I hoped to get it in before new year...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: that's optimistic
<pmjdebruijn> but if not... too bad...
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: yeah...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: but there's a good possibility to get it into jaunty
<pmjdebruijn> everybody's busy in december :)
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: yeah, I never expected it to get it into intrepid
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I also need to modify the ufraw package to actually use lensfun
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: Almost nothing new got into intrepid
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: great
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: can I submit "revised" packaged to revu as well?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: sure
<pmjdebruijn> for packages which already exist downstream Debian
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: oh
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: hijacking a package is likely to get you unpopular
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's just a modification to ./configure, nothing more
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: best thing is to get friendly with the Debian maintainer
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: most maintainers will be happy for contributions
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: but it's a pointless change since it would require Debian to include Lensfun as well
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: The change can be done as a Ubuntu specific merge then
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: if it's small no problem
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: but then you should create a bug in Launchpad explaining the situation, and attach a diff to that bug
<DRebellion> Could anybody take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer ? It's been advocated once previously, so it should be in pretty good shape.
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: the soname version looks funny
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: ok, clear
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: that's funny about it...?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: it's versioned like the source code
<pmjdebruijn> oh
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: you'd like single decimals?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: who designed the shared library? You or upstream?
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: increased whever the API changes?
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: yes, start at 0
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: upstream I guess
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: we need to get this correct
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I'll dig out some urls I have somewhere explaining how to choose the .so version number
<pmjdebruijn> cool :)
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: Most likely, upstream has no experience with distributions
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: quite likely
<pmjdebruijn> I'm quite moticated to make this work...
<pmjdebruijn> without UFRaw I'd already have bought a Mac...
<pmjdebruijn> UFRaw allows me to stick with Ubuntu :)
<pmjdebruijn> and LensFun makes UFRaw a lot better
<pmjdebruijn> I also hope we'll be able to pull in exiv2-0.18 which should be released before christmas
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: cool
<pmjdebruijn> big improvements there as well
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: great news for the photo enthusiasts!
<pmjdebruijn> writing EXIF to TIFF... Recognition of Canon lenses types
<pmjdebruijn> which previously only worked with Nikon
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I'm currently maintaining an external repository with these goodies...
<pmjdebruijn> but for examples upgrading exiv2 on intrepid, breaks digikam... which I don't care about, but other people do
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: Sounds interesting!
<pmjdebruijn> getting stuff into jaunty, seems like the best way to go
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: yes
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: Feature freeze is 19th of Feb IIRC
<pmjdebruijn> yeah
<pmjdebruijn> can Debian packages (exiv2-0.18) still get imported after christmas?
<pmjdebruijn> it'll be released around christmas upstream... so it'll take a few days for the Debian folks to repackage it, so it'll be after newyear until it's ready to get imported into jaunty
<ScottK> pmjdebruijn: Yes.
<pmjdebruijn> ScottK: great!
<pmjdebruijn> ScottK: yes request as sync as usual?
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: thanks for the review and the information, I'll talk to upstream and get things fixed... do you still have that soname URL for me, so I can pass that along to upstream?
<ScottK> pmjdebruijn: Yes.
<pmjdebruijn> ScottK: good thanks, I'll keep an eye on Debian's exiv2 package
<iulian> DRebellion: You might want to merge rm -f args into dh_clean.
<DRebellion> iulian, sorry, I'm not sure what you mean?
<azeem> pmjdebruijn: e.g. http://www.manpagez.com/info/libtool/libtool_37.php#SEC37
<iulian> DRebellion: dh_clean build-stamp configure-stamp
<DRebellion> iulian, ah right. I just used the default dh_make way.
<pmjdebruijn> azeem: thanks!
<DRebellion> iulian, I will do that, thanks.
<iulian> DRebellion: The program looks intreresting. I see that it's written in C which is nice. I might try it out.
<DRebellion> iulian, great : )
<DRebellion> iulian, we went C as an exercise in coding mainly, but the performance side helped with some of the bruteforcing
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: ah, there are license files in the tarball, they are in docs
<iulian> DRebellion: Are you upstream?
<DRebellion> iulian, yes
<iulian> Is it maintained in a vcs?
<DRebellion> iulian, yes, we use google code: code.google.com/p/cifer
<iulian> Ah right, svn.
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: yeah
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: one less thing to worry about.
<ScottK> jmarsden: Fixed setools is now available for testing in intrepid-proposed.  Please give it a try and comment in bug 308350.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308350 in setools "FTBFS on amd64 and lpia due to dpkg-buildpackage failure." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/308350
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: review is up
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: thankyou!
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: you're welcome
<pmjdebruijn> I have another question for something I'm making myself... (I=upstream)
<pmjdebruijn> it's an ICC color profile...
<pmjdebruijn> how can I best make the upstream tarball? the .icc file, and README and a LICENSE file (cc-by-sa-3)
<pmjdebruijn> all in a descriptive directory of course
<X-Sleepy-X> I have a really newbie question. I've downloaded alot of stuff to be able to make .deb files out of source code. However, I haven't found a good guide on how to acctually create the .deb files. Does anyone here sit on a good guide that they wish to share with me?
<iulian> X-Sleepy-X: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<iulian> X-Sleepy-X: I believe /Complete is what you're looking for.
<X-Sleepy-X> iulian: Thank you very much! :)
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: By definition, you can't make an upstream tarball, unless you distribute the software
<iulian> X-Sleepy-X: Don't mention it. If you have questions/ideas/remarks or anything else please say it here.
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I was talking about my own "software" distribution
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: ah
<X-Sleepy-X> ok
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: but suited for packaging?
<pmjdebruijn> yeah
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: what you said before sounds sensible,,, but what's the icc profile?
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's a color correction profile
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: digital camera's are color blind
<mok0> binary?
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: well blind... they're crosseyed about color
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: yeah, binary
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's generated from an image
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: but the "sources" are not much use
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: hmm
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: that's a problem for the "lawyers" :-)
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: there's a huge discussion going on these days in Debian, concerning distribution of binary blobs for firmware
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: the "sources" is a 10MB image, which is read into a textfile with values, which is converted into a 1.5K profile
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's not firmware... the icc profile is a documentation format...
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's just some math parameters
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: you may want to include the ascii file, plus program to convert it...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: the philosophy is that anyone should be able to "compile"
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: and modify the "sources"
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: anyway, the subject is worthy of a discussion on one of the mailing lists
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: but for example, we have to exclude a PDF file if there is no source for it
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: not including a PDF without source is silly
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: It's policy
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: nobody distributes icc sources
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: it's not really good for anything
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I wont dispute that
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: anyway sounds like policy gone bonkers
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: heh
<pmjdebruijn> about the PDFs...
<pmjdebruijn> although it could be desirable...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: you have the software that creates the profile?
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: yeah, argyllcms, it's not in Ubuntu/Debian yet, but there are debian packages
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: ok, that makes it easier I guess
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: generating the profile from source is problematic actually, since algorithm in argyll can change, and you don't want the profile to change along with it
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I understand
<pmjdebruijn> as profile are used for consistency, and a change profile is basically useless
<pmjdebruijn> I could include the text files and the prebuilt profiles of course...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: otoh, what if a huge error is discovered in a PDF file for which there is no modifiable source. Then it can't be corrected
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: policy operates with something called the preferred human-readable and human-modifiable formats
<skorasaurus> i compiled a package, according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Binary%20and%20Source%20Packages but i don't know which distro i made it for
<skorasaurus> (jaunty or intrepid), i completely forgot about that.
<mok0> skorasaurus: it given in debian/changelog
<mok0> skorasaurus: top line
<skorasaurus> mok0, it says unstable
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: well, you never manually "want" to modify a profile
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: at least not really
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: but I get your point, power to the people
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I understand it for PDFs as well, although I wouldn't reject, but just put it in non-free/multiverse
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: heh, yeah. Like I said there's a heated discussion going on in Debian, concerning binary firmware blobs
<pmjdebruijn> yeah
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: even then, non-free/multiverse is the wya
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: it's threatening to delay the release of Lenny
<pmjdebruijn> manually downloading a binary blob just because of policy is a massive nuisance
 * pmjdebruijn has blob free hardware...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: yeah, but it is important to make a distinction
<pmjdebruijn> yeah, of course... but not including them will turn away users...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: Ubuntu ships binary drivers as restricted
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: yes
<pmjdebruijn> and a firmware blobs are not as bad as binary kernel modules that like ATi/nVidia shit
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I agree.
<pmjdebruijn> I wouldn't include it on the CD, but I would make it easyily downloadable through restricted
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: but some of this stuff is just given in C statements in hex numbers which nobody knows what mean. That is not satisfactory either
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I know... it's though
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: when you have a distribution, users expect that bugs will be fixed, and the blobs make it hard
<mok0>  pmjdebruijn, I will follow your progress with interest :-)
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I never said, we should do nVidia's work for them...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: just be prepared for problems ahead :-)
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: I have no issues with telling people they bought crappy hardware from a crappy vendor
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I can't imaging what trade secret nVidia have in those drivers. It's crazy
<pmjdebruijn> yeah
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: probably afriad of publicising code cruft... performance hacks/shortcuts
 * mok0 confesses to having nVidia hardware. *blush*
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: hah!
 * pmjdebruijn rounds up the angry mob... *burn the witch* *burn the heretic*
<norsetto> mok0: well, at least you have fully compliant opengl 3.0 drivers
 * mok0 runs
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: confessing the first step to be absolved of your sins...
<mok0> norsetto: that's always something
<norsetto> mok0: hmmm, wait, what card you have?
<mok0> norsetto: oh... it's an 8500
<norsetto> mok0: ok, you do then
<mok0> norsetto: I had lots of problems with under Hardy, but with Intrepid it works great
<mok0> norsetto: with restricted drivers...
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Anybody to review dvdstyler? it's at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler
 * mok0 hides
<mok0> fabrice_sp: ah, sorry I have to go for dinner. but norsetto's not doing anything sensible ;-)
<fabrice_sp> mok0, lol. I've tried ;-)
<norsetto> mok0: I must admit, the last time I looked at a package in revu was ... err ... couple of months ago!?
<mok0> norsetto: we have a huge backlog
<fabrice_sp> and a lot of 'desperate' new packager asking for review :-)
<mok0> norsetto: I'm about to catch up with you in # of reviews :-)
<norsetto> mok0: he, I'm still listed as number 5 reviewer, and haven't done any review for so long, so, its not surprising
<mok0> norsetto: dktrkranz is biting your ass
<norsetto> mok0: dktrkranz is amazing, I don't know how he can find the time to breath ...
<mok0> norsetto: haha
<mok0> norsetto: what have you been up to?
<norsetto> mok0: pretty bad stuff unfortunately
<mok0> norsetto: oh noes
<pmjdebruijn> I'm fiddling a bit with UFraw as well, but dpkg tells me this:
 * pmjdebruijn rounds up the angry mob... *burn the witch* *burn the heretic*dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: dependency on libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 could be
<pmjdebruijn> avoided if "debian/gimp-ufraw/usr/lib/gimp/2.0/plug-ins/ufraw-gimp" were
<pmjdebruijn> not uselessly linked against it (they use none of its symbols).B[B[B
<pmjdebruijn> is this an issue in the makefiles?
<norsetto> mok0: oh well, wifey is calling for dinner, catch you up l8r
<mok0> norsetto: bye-bye see you
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I think you can ignore that
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: but you may be able to avoid the -lpangoft2 switch
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: otoh then users need to remember it
<pmjdebruijn> huh?
<pmjdebruijn> I don't really understand why there warning are given... it's the first time I've seen this...
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: shared libraries can contain information about symbols from other libraries
<pmjdebruijn> ok
<mok0> pmjdebruijn: I generally ignore it
 * mok0 goes to dinner now. See you all
<pmjdebruijn> mok0: bon apetit...
<hyperair> can anyone review my packages codelite and sigx?
<fabrice_sp> hyperair, about sigx, you didn't do any update since my comment, so I think it's difficult to have more review until then
<fabrice_sp> about the copyright header and the soname
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> oh right
<skorasaurus> is the upstream author the actual developer of the program/library that i am packaging ?
<hyperair> fabrice_sp: how about codelite then? i've the lintian stuff
<hyperair> except for man pages
<hyperair> but considering it's a gui app with hardly any options, i think a man page is rather pointless
<fabrice_sp> hyperair, you need a manpage
<fabrice_sp> event if it's a gui app
 * fabrice_sp checking codelite
<fabrice_sp> skorasaurus, in general, yes
<skorasaurus> k
<skorasaurus> fabrice_sp, thanks.
<hyperair> damn.
<hyperair> but banshee is a gui app and it doesn't have man pages, yet it's fine?
<fabrice_sp> I'm packaging dvdstyler, and I had to add a manpage to get rid of all lintian warnings
<fabrice_sp> a new package has to be lintian error free
<hyperair> damn.
<hyperair> okay.
 * fabrice_sp building codelite
<fabrice_sp> hyperair, you also miss copyright headers in codelite :-/
<fabrice_sp> hyperair, and also in debian/copyright, you should details the different copyrights that are used in codelite (I see LGPL, for example in some sources, but it's not mentioned in debian/copyright)
<fabrice_sp> I'll update the package comments in revu
<hyperair> fabrice_sp: thanks
<fabrice_sp> General questions: is it mandatory to have a COPYING file in the root directory of a package?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: It's manadatory to have a copy of the full text of the license.  Doesn't have to be named COPYING.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, ok. I was having a look at codelite in revu, and found strange not to have this file in the root directory of the package
<fabrice_sp> thanks
<skorasaurus> hi, a package that im compiling, its rules file is different than the one in the packaging guide.
<skorasaurus> i'm a bit confused what to do now
<fabrice_sp> skorasaurus, each package can have (and actually has) a different rules file
<skorasaurus> fabrice_sp, there's one rules file in the debian folder
<fabrice_sp> what I mean is that a rules file from one package is different from the one of the another package
<fabrice_sp> the rule file depends on a lot of parameters
<LaserJock> what's a good versioning for a rebuild-only SRU?
<directhex> append "build1"
<LaserJock> so perhaps 1ubuntu1~build1?
<ScottK> LaserJock: I just did one as 1ubuntu1 when we already had a later version in Jaunty
<LaserJock> ScottK: current Intrepid/Jaunty version is 1ubuntu1, I'm going to upload a rebuild-only to both
<LaserJock> I'm just a little rusty here :(
<ScottK> LaserJock: In that case I'd just do 1ubuntu2 in Jaunty and 1ubuntu1.1 in Intrepid
<ScottK> The ...build1 is really only relevant if it's otherwise unchanged from debian and you want autosync to get it at the next chance.
<LaserJock> actually, I was wrong about the version being the same, but I get your point
<quadrispro> sebner: can you take a look to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uck ?
<quadrispro> sebner: (hi! :))
<sebner> quadrispro: maybe tomorrow
<quadrispro> sebner: ok, thanks!
<LaserJock> can I get somebody to unsub u-u-s from bug #263173 please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<sebner> LaserJock: on the way
<sebner> LaserJock: done
<LaserJock> sebner: thanks
<sebner> np =)
<jack_> how do I get a debdiff?
<sebner> jack_: debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > xy.debdiff
<jack_> sebner, ok thanks
<jack_> debdiff: fatal error at line 269:
<jack_> Need exactly two deb files or changes files to compare
<NCommander> hey DktrKranz
<sebner> DktrKranz: you were right. nvidia is b0rken on jaunty ^ ^
<sebner> hi NCommander =)
<DktrKranz> we NCommander sebner
<NCommander> hey sebner
<jack_> why do I get that error?
<sebner> jack_: post your command you use
<jack_> sebner, debdiff nted_1.4.15-1.dsc nted_1.4.15-1ubuntu1~intrepid1.dsc > xy .debdiff
<sebner> jack_: I'd you nted.debdiff instead of xy .debdiff
<sebner> *use
<sebner> the error is the whitespace between xy and .
<jack_> sebner, ok thanks
<serialorder> can someone please tell me a good way to save the output of pbuilder when a package FTBFS
<DktrKranz> sebner, IIRC, it hasn't been rebuilt against new xorg
<sebner> DktrKranz: well, it's generally b0rken. rebuild wouldn't fix it
<DktrKranz> serialorder, --logfile option could help you
<sebner> DktrKranz: we have to wait for a new upstream release. besides I reinstalled intrepid ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner, ask tseliot about it, I'm sure he has an opinion
<sebner> DktrKranz: well, after reading his comments on the bugs his opinion is to wait until upstream (nvidia) fixes it ^^
<DktrKranz> no compiz, my party!
<sebner> DktrKranz: never used that ;)
 * DktrKranz too
<DktrKranz> probably because my hardware is too old to support anything useful
 * sebner parties with DktrKranz together \o/
<DktrKranz> sebner, does qmail actually build?
<sebner> DktrKranz: doesn't do since 2 years ;)
<DktrKranz> wasn't it fixed? or am I wrong?
<sebner> DktrKranz: O_o
<sebner> DktrKranz: not that I know
<DktrKranz> wasn't license clarified?
<DktrKranz> if so, I think it can actually be built
<DktrKranz> it keep FTBFS just because binaries were not distributable (IIRC)
<serialorder> DktrKranz: thanks that was exactly what i was looking for
<sebner> DktrKranz: really? since on Debian it always built ...
<DktrKranz> serialorder, you're welcome :)
<DktrKranz> sebner, did it?
<sebner> DktrKranz: if the build logs aren't lying
<DktrKranz> and why it FTBFS in our buildds?
<azeem> sebner: are you sure that wasn't a wrapper package or something?
<azeem> AFAIK qmail is currently in Debian NEW
<sebner> DktrKranz: build log says missing orig.tar.gz
<sebner> azeem: well, we merge from debian. if wrapper package or not
<DktrKranz> sebner, arch: all, so it's not built from Debian
 * sebner is confused
<DktrKranz> sebner, when you upload to Debian, you upload resulting binaries too, Ubuntu developer just upload sources
<sebner> I see
<DktrKranz> if you have an arch: all package, you upload your own copy of the package
<DktrKranz> and no build process is required
<sebner> DktrKranz: =)
<sebner> DktrKranz: do you know if netqmail is the source successor?
<DktrKranz> no idea
<DktrKranz> probably yes
<sebner> DktrKranz: I'll take a look tomorrow =)
<sebner> DktrKranz: thx for the infos. any special reason you are interested in qmail?
<DktrKranz> sebner, I'm having a look if I try to build it in my pbuilder
<DktrKranz> sebner, just trying to finish some merges ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: it actually builds in pbuilder but not on the LP servers
<sebner> heh
<DktrKranz> so, I guess it lacks .tar.gz archive and needs to fetch it from internet
<DktrKranz> ubuntu buildds haven't internet access
<sebner> DktrKranz: could be a reason
<sebner> DktrKranz: debian build servers have? if no, then it's really just a binary upload
<DktrKranz> sebner, they have
<sebner> I see
 * DktrKranz is curious to see if upstream tarball could be legally inserted in debian/
<sebner> DktrKranz: is there any server which contains the sources files of packages which are in NEW ?
<DktrKranz> sebner, in debian?
<serialorder> in the process of merging protobuf it was decided that we should adopt the latest version from upstream even though it is not in debian yet
<sebner> DktrKranz: yes
<serialorder> i volunteered to do this but I am unsure how to proceed
<DktrKranz> sebner, packages.d.o has latest source packages
<sebner> DktrKranz: but there are packages in NEW which are Initial release
<serialorder> should i attempt it like it was a new package (ive never packaged something from scratch before)
<DktrKranz> sebner, if sources are accepted, they're mirrored
<DktrKranz> if you look for source NEW, you have to go at ftp-master.debian.org
<sebner> DktrKranz: that's what I wanted to know ^^
<azeem> sebner: NEW is not accessible
<sebner> ARGHS
<sebner> right
<azeem> however, if this is still about qmail, I guess the maintainer provides the packages elsewhere
<azeem> note though that they got rejected due to packaging issues before
<nhandler> soren: ping
<norsetto> hmmm, is it me or bazaar.launchpad.net is "down"?
<pochu> norsetto: launchpad is down :-)
<pochu> norsetto: being upgraded, should be up and running in 20 minutes
<norsetto> puchu: ahhh! thx
<norsetto> pochu: ops. I mean, pochu ...
<serialorder> in the process of merging protobuf it was decided that we should adopt the latest version from upstream even though it is not in debian yet. I volunteered to do this but I am unsure how to proceed. Should I treat it like packaging a new package or is there some other process?
<skorasaurus> mok0, how was dinner :D
<jdong> sigh, stupid bluetooth bugginess.
<jdong> my capslock inverted.
<skorasaurus> I issued debuild and it failed to compile because gtk was not found, although i had it installed (at least on my own computer).
<skorasaurus> how should I remedy this ?
<mok0> skorasaurus: great. Sushi :-P
 * skorasaurus is envious
<jmarsden|work> skorasaurus: You are probably missing some gtk -dev package or other?
<skorasaurus> i looked in the config.log file, saw that in the output variables, GTK_LIBS=''
<jdong> humor does NOT work with airline representatives for rescheduling flights without charge
<jdong> just as a FYI :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-18
<serialorder> i have a question regarding updating a library package
<serialorder> for protobuf in intrepid the library was libprotobuf0  in intrepid the current version is libprotobuf2 based on upstream version 2.0.2-1. I am trying to update the package so it is based on 2.0.3
<serialorder> do i need to rename libprotobuf2 to something else or can it remain as libprotobuf2
<pochu> serialorder: only rename it if the SONAME changed
<pochu> e.g. if you have libfoo.so.2 and it changes to libfoo.so.3 with the new version, then it changed the SONAME
<serialorder> pochu: thanks, is there a place I can look to check if that is the case?
<serialorder> i found out by compiling but I am sure there is some easier way to tell without having to compile
<pochu> serialorder: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/CheckingLibrarySymbols
<pochu> serialorder: but the SONAME is usually bumped in configure.ac
<pochu> so you can do a `diff libfoo-1.0/configure.ac libfoo-2.0/configure.ac`
<serialorder> thanks pochu
<et3>  I want to make a package of my .bash_profile, .bash_aliases, .vimrc etc...
<et3> Is there a way I can do that?
<et3> I know there are theme packages...
<et3> right now I can reinstall everything from repos except config files.
<jmarsden> et3: The defaults are in /etc/skel, do you want to create modified packages for bash, vim, etc to include your own variant config files?
<et3> jmarsden : it's more like I want all my ~/."${CONFIG_FILES} in one package
<et3> like ./bash_aliases
<et3> I suppose I could customize each individual package...
<jmarsden> Well,  if you always use the same username everywhere, you could create a package containing them that puts them all into /home/et3/
<jmarsden> Are you building a variant distro with this package in it?? Why does it need to be a package?
<et3> couldn't I use the system's "~" ?
<et3> easier to install
<jmarsden> The system doesn't have one... you mean /root/ ?
<et3> no...
<jmarsden> ~ is defined as the home dir for the current user... ;)
<et3> yeah...  That'd be the one I'd want to install the package for... but I suppose packages are meant to be a "system-wide" thing.
<et3> ...hmmm
<jmarsden> I just stick a tarball up on the web somewhere and then I can do   wget http://www.example.com/mytarball.tar and then tar xf mytarball.tar   and I'm done.
<et3> I'd rather go with git
<jmarsden> That way I have my files even on systems that are not Debian/Ubuntu based.
<et3> and if I'm using a cvs thing, why not package it?
<et3> good point
<jmarsden> Not ever machine you ssh into will have git installed... will it?  But almost all will have wget or curl.
<et3> another good point.
<et3> What about your other files?  Do you have a packaging system for your media?
<et3> maybe I'm just going package crazy since I learned how to make them.
<jmarsden> For music/photos etc?  No... I don't need them to travel with me around the Internet ;)
<et3> I plan on setting up a server for my media files.
<ScottK> There is a package called etckeeper for putting /etc/ in a VCS.
<et3> right now I can use filezilla... but I want to make it a browser-based thing.
<jmarsden> If you have ssh access to it you can grab them via sshfs or (if necessary) with scp or sftp...
 * et3 googles etckeeper
<et3> right.
<et3> mercurial looks cool
 * et3 waves goodbye
<jmarsden> Bye et3, have fun!
<et3> jmarsden : thanks  bye ^^
<nellery> Lutin: Hi, were you planning on doing the babel merge?
<serialorder> when upgrading a package what needs to be provided in LP?
<ScottK> diff.gz
<serialorder> that is a diff between?
<serialorder> is it a debdiff between the previous version and the upgraded version?
<ScottK> serialorder: No.  Make the upgraded package.  A source package has the orig.tar.gz, the diff.gz, and the .dsc.
<ScottK> The diff.gz is the only part a sponsor needs to reconstruct your package.
<serialorder> ahh
<ScottK> They'll fetch the orig.tar.gz themselves.
<RAOF> Aww, man.  How do you get $(addprefix $(FOO)) to work when some of the files in FOO have spaces in their names?
<coppro> "$(addprefix $(FOO))"?
<coppro> or something akin to that?
<RAOF> The function is actually $(addprefix bar/,$(FOO)), so that won't work; it'll add bar/ to the start of each space-separated component of FOO.
<coppro> oh. That's a tough one; how do you build FOO?
<serialorder> ScottK I dont see a diff.gz
<serialorder> i see a .dsc,.build, .changes, .tar.gz
<ScottK> serialorder: You've got your updated package prepared?
<ScottK> serialorder: Then you've got a native package.
<ScottK> serialorder: What package are you upgradingin?
<serialorder> well I wasnt sure how to name it actually
<serialorder> protobuf
<serialorder> previous version was protobuf-2.0.2-1ubuntu1
<serialorder> trying to upgrade to 2.0.3
<ScottK> Yeah.  It shouldn't be a native package.
<ScottK> What's the name of your tar.gz
<serialorder> i think i messed that part up
<serialorder> i have protobuf-2.0.3.orig.tar.gz and protobuf_2.0.3ubuntu1.tar.gz
<ScottK> I'm guessing.
<serialorder> i wasnt sure what to call it because the version isn't in debian yet
<ScottK> The existing orig.tar.gz is protobuf_2.0.2.orig.tar.gz
<ScottK> So you want protobuf_2.0.3.orig.tar.gz
<ScottK> The revision doesn't go on the orig.tar.gz.
<ScottK> In debian/changelog you'll want to say it's 2.0.3-0ubuntu1
<NCommander> serialorder, pinmg
<NCommander> *ping
<NCommander> oh :-)
<NCommander> serialorder, I'm test building your patch on sparc right now
<NCommander> DO you know if the new upstream builds correctly on sparc/ia64?
<serialorder> the new upstream fixed the sparc FTBFS but it hasnt fixed ia64 yet
<RAOF> coppro: How do I build FOO?  FOO = file1 \ file2 \ Stupid Space Including Dir/file3 \ etc...  That will obviously have to change, but I don't know how.
<NCommander> serialorder, I have access to both SPARC and ia64
<NCommander> I can kick builds off on both
<NCommander> if necessary
<NCommander> serialorder, do you want me to sponsor the existing patch, or should we wait for the new upstream?
<coppro> RAOF: replace each space in the arguments with "\\ "
<coppro> (what language is that, btw?)
<serialorder> NCommander: lets hold off, i just finished upgrading to the latest upstream
<NCommander> oh cool
<RAOF> coppro: Make
<serialorder> ScottK: thanks for the help have the diff.gz now =)
<ScottK> serialorder: You're welcome.
<coppro> RAOF: ah. Hmm... never really gotten into that complex of Make before
<NCommander> serialorder, if you can kick it onto REVU or into a PPA (someplace where I can get it), I can test build on both SPARC and IA-64
<RAOF> coppro: Sorry, thought that would have been obvious from the syntax :)
<coppro> as I said, never gotten that complex
<serialorder> this is my first upgrade =)
<coppro> in my experience though, escaping spaces works
<ScottK> serialorder: Glad to have you here helping out.
<RAOF> coppro: Yeah, escaping them doesn't work here :(
<coppro> RAOF: you can't escape them as they go into FOO?
<RAOF> I can escape them as they go into FOO, but it doesn't help; the escaping is undone when FOO is processed by $(addprefix
<coppro> oh
<coppro> double-escaping?
<serialorder> NCommander: protobuf is now on REVU
 * NCommander wanders over to REVU
<NCommander> serialorder, link?
<serialorder> NCommander: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=protobuf
<NCommander> serialorder, I already see a mistake
<NCommander> YOu forgot to change a depends :-)
<serialorder> doh
<NCommander> lintian is your friend
<NCommander> serialorder, did you try test building in pbuilder or a PPA?
<coppro> anyone up for a REVU of my package?
<serialorder> oh, i see the mistake
<serialorder> sorry
<serialorder> haven't used lintian before, actually haven't heard of it before, must have missed that wiki page
<jmarsden> serialorder: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<serialorder> NCommander: I think I fixed all the problems, also test built with pbuilder and installed  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4284
<NCommander> execellant!
<NCommander> serialorder, did you toss the ia64 fix in?
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> yup
<NCommander> I'll testbuild on bot sparc and amd64
<serialorder> i did and now im going to go report that upstream
<NCommander> sparc build started
<serialorder> not amd64, ia64
<NCommander> no, both
<NCommander> my ia64 is slow
<NCommander> So I'm not going to bother test building on it unless its really necessary
<NCommander> uh
<NCommander> This script requires setuptools version 0.6c8 to run (even to display
<NCommander> THat's not going to work
<NCommander> Buildds do builds as non-root, and don't have internet connectivity
<NCommander> I'll fix it if I can
<serialorder> it was like that in 2.0.21ubuntu1 and those built fine except on ia64 and sparc
<NCommander> It pulled in the pbuilder root for me
<NCommander> I'm just adding the explicate build-deps
<ScottK> NCommander: We do patch setuptools to not pull stuff from the internet that's already installed, so that should do it.
<NCommander> I didn't have setuptools installed :-)
<NCommander> The build-dep wasn't there at all
<NCommander> it works fine if setuptools is installed
<serialorder> NCommander: is there anything else i need to do now?
<NCommander> I got a test suite failure ...
<NCommander> It went boom on amd64
<NCommander> which caused an FTBFS
<NCommander> serialorder, http://paste.ubuntu.com/87553/
<NCommander> serialorder, I won't upload it since that test suite failure will break the build on amd64
<NCommander> serialorder, I left a comment on REVU
<serialorder> so then should we just patch the current version?
<coppro> pbuilder is stupid; it insists on using hardy
<coppro> how do I tell it I want intrepid?
<ScottK> Depends on how you set it up.
<jmarsden> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<coppro> wait, I think I figured it out
<serialorder> NCommander: I checked and that but has been reported upstream but there is not fix. I am thinking maybe we should just patch version 2.0.2-1 and hold off on the upgrade
 * NCommander falls over
<serialorder> yeah your telling me, spent all day trying to figure out how to do an upgrade =|
<Koon> good morning
<serialorder> NCommander, ping
<NCommander> serialorder, semi-pong
<serialorder> actually found a fix  build failure, but i can save it for tomorrow if necessary
<NCommander> the amd64?
<serialorder> yeah
<serialorder> built it on PPA and it built fine
<NCommander> I'll upload
<NCommander> link to your PPA
<NCommander> serialorder, stupid question, are you using a patchsystem?
<serialorder> no, there was no patch system in place
<serialorder> so ive just been modifying source
 * NCommander normally perfers if you add one in that case
<NCommander> Which makes merging it a headache later on
<NCommander> a very big headache
<NCommander> :-/
<serialorder> i see, i got scolded when i first started for adding a patch system
<NCommander> Who scolded you?
<persia> Well, except when the maintainer decides to add a different patch system ...
<NCommander> Oh, the package had a patch system already?
<serialorder> jwestby
<NCommander> If the package has a patch system, use that
<NCommander> if it doesn't have one, add one, or at least that's what I do
<serialorder> there was none so i added one
<serialorder> but then i was told not to
<NCommander> Did this happen on IRC or a bug?
<persia> NCommander, Please don't, unless you know that the maintainer in Debian prefers a given patch system, and you are adding that one.
<NCommander> persia, and then it becomes a pain when you need to carry your changes forward another revision because the debian developer didn't take your patches
<NCommander> persia, because then you need to find the changes, and reapply them
<serialorder> https://launchpad.net/~serialorder/+archive
<serialorder> there is my PPA
<persia> NCommander, Well, if you are adding lots of unrelated changes, and you don't want to use a VCS, I suppose I could support that, but in the vast majority of cases, it adds unnecessary complication.
<NCommander> cdbs-simple-patch system is one line in rules, and possibly one additional build-dep
<persia> Hrm?  If a package already uses CDBS, it's small enough.  Adding cdbs as a build-dep can cause confusion.
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> A difference of opinion. I personally feel that the weight of a patch system is worthwhile since it makes it possible to find patches easily and tweak them if need be
<persia> Oh, I do as well.  I'm just opposed to *adding* one if it's not previously in use.
<NCommander> And that's where we disagree
 * NCommander has issues with people changing inplace patch systems
<NCommander> persia, right now, I'm looking at the debdiff, and I can't tell at all what was or was not added
<persia> Which debdiff?  I suspect there is one that shows the specific set of changes that might be more useful to generate.
<NCommander> persia, its a new upstream version
<NCommander> which also needs patches
<NCommander> serialorder, it looks good so far, I'm just doing a second test build so I can run lintian on the binaries
<persia> Ah, then debdiff isn't the useful diff :)  Anyway, I'll walk you through useful diff generation if you like, but I suspect you've already gone far enough with this one as to make it not matter.
<NCommander> persia, sure, I'd apperiate that
<persia> OK.  Which package?
<serialorder> i wouldn't mind such a lesson either
<NCommander> persia protobuf
<NCommander> serialorder, just so we're clear, you do know how to use a patch system, right?
 * NCommander would be willing to teach that for future reference
<persia> And it's a new pull from upstream, a merge from Debian, bugfixes, what?
<serialorder> i have added a dpatch system once before
<NCommander> merge with Debian with new upstream
<persia> OK.  Let me get some files then.
<NCommander> serialorder, good
<NCommander> the only patch system thats very different is quilt
 * persia is confused.  sid has 2.0.2-1 and jaunty has 2.0.2-1ubuntu1
<serialorder>  2.0.2-1ubuntu1 didnt build on sparc and upstream (as in google) fixed that problem in 2.0.3
<NCommander> the version to be uploaded is 2.0.3-0ubuntu1
<persia> OK.  So not a merge from Debian: just a new upstream version.
<NCommander> I thought we were also merging stuff from Debian
<NCommander> serialorder, it looks good
 * NCommander grabs his GPG key
<NCommander> persia, any objections if I upload this now? (I already reviewed his changes by checked the diff.gz :-))
<persia> NCommander, no objections, if you think it's good.  My only point was about patch systems, and reviewing methods.
 * NCommander nods
<NCommander> serialorder, upload in progress
<persia> Anyway, `debdiff protobuf_2.0.2-1.dsc protobuf_2.0.2-1ubuntu1.dsc` shows that the previous changes were just build-dependencies from Debian.
<NCommander> right but debdiffing against a new upstream is pointless
<persia> As a result, we would expect the changes in the diff.gz to be broadly similar between 2.0.2 and 2.0.3
<NCommander> is this a case where you use interdiff between both diff.gz's?
<persia> `lsdiff -z protobuf_2.0.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz` and `lsdiff -z protobuf_2.0.3-0ubuntu1.diff.gz` have about the same list of stuff: the interesting patch appears to be inpython/google/protobuf/internal/decoder_test.py
<persia> Yep :)
<NCommander> oooh
<NCommander> I didn't know about lsdiff
<NCommander> Now THAT's handy
 * NCommander waits for the accepted email
<persia> `interdiff -z -p1 protobuf_2.0.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz protobuf_2.0.3-0ubuntu1.diff.gz` shows the relevant changes
<NCommander> still not ideal, but I can dig it :-)
<NCommander> serialorder, [ubuntu/jaunty] protobuf 2.0.3-0ubuntu1 (Accepted)
<NCommander> serialorder, Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu
<serialorder> NCommander, awesome thanks
<persia> The first interesting bit is that it referes to libprotobuf3 rather than libprotobuf2, which makes me wonder about compatibilitity with rdepends
<NCommander> persia, we have nothing that uses it expect protobuf itself ;-)
<persia> Just pointing things out: like I said, I'm not objecting to the upload, nor have I reviewed it in detail.
 * NCommander nods
<NCommander> serialorder, anyway, nice job on your first package update
<persia> control seems updated to use the new name, so that's all good.  Next interesting thing is that the maintainer scripts seem to have dropped the ldconfig call.
<persia> And then we get to the actual source patches
<persia> Later we see the maintainer scripts were only a side effect of the binary name change (this will need binary NEW)
<NCommander> serialorder, do you know about the NEW queue?
<persia> And the most exciting bit is that neither the build-depends patch nor the 64-bit patch from Debian appears in the interdiff, which means they are preserved.
<NCommander> serialorder did a good job on the update
<serialorder> thanks, it took a long time =)
<serialorder> i don't know about NEW, remmeber reading about it somewhere
<NCommander> Ok
<persia> Another interesting thing to do sometimes is to pipe the interdiff output through lsdiff, which shows a list of all the files changed by a given revision.
<serialorder> might have had to reorganize my firefox bookmarks because of all the MOTU wiki bookmarks i made recently
<NCommander> Every NEW package gets stuck in a special holding area called the NEW queue
<NCommander> new source packages don't even get built, and packages with new or changed binaries (such as the updated version) get built, but not published
<NCommander> They get stuck in a queue until an archive admin creates overrides to allow them to proceed into the archive
<NCommander> serialorder, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text= you can see the new queue, and your package in it
<serialorder> ubuntu packaging is way more fun than my dissertation =)
<dholbach> good morning
<soren> nhandler: Wazzup?
<alex_21> Nothing
<alex_21> I was going to build a package but found something that works as well
<alex_21> And BTW: how do you get a very basic Gome install onto Ubuntu Server and tell it to start at system startup?
<alex_21> Well thanks for your help
<alex_21> Good night. Bani bash
<dholbach> stgraber: thanks a lot - posted! :)
<dholbach> nhandler: CONGRATULATIONS!
<Laney> go nhandler!
 * Laney waves pompoms
<ara> nhandler: congratulations!
<Laney> *\o/*
<dholbach> yooohoooo! :)
<zerwas> who has birthday?
<dholbach> zerwas: nhandler just joined the MOTU team :)
<zerwas> ah, well. congratulations :D
<pochu> stgraber: congrats :-)
<pochu> nhandler: likewise!
<\sh> stgraber/nhandler: welcome on board...
<didrocks> congrats nhandler :)
<quadrispro> dholbach, thanks for your reply to my U-U-S application :)
<Laney> dholbach: You uploaded bakery! YAY!
<Laney> quadrispro: u-u-c? ;)
<quadrispro> Laney, yes :D
<quadrispro> dholbach, s/U-U-S/U-U-C
<Laney> the final piece of my glom puzzle is almost complete
<dholbach> quadrispro, Laney: no worries :)
<quadrispro> anyone on bug #296398?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296398 in liblunar "Please merge liblunar 1.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296398
<ScottK> nhandler: Congratulations.
<jack_> can you build and upload packages for Ubuntu if you're not a MOtu (yet)?
<persia> jack_, Prepare, but not upload.
<jack_> persia, ok what do you mean by prepare?
<persia> jack_, Generally, one prepares fixes for a while, and works with the sponsors to get them uploaded.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> jack_, Make any adjustments as if one were uploading, and then show the patch for these changes to the sponsors
<jack_> persia, and new packages, which are not yet in ubuntu?
<persia> One generally submits those to REVU.  See the bottom of the link.
<jack_> is it better to build a package from a debian unstable package or just from tar.gz?
<persia> jack_, If it's in Debian unstable, and it's not in Ubuntu, it will be in a few days.
<jack_> persia, ok
<directhex> hmph. openjdk-6-source-files is incomplete
<persia> This will continue to be true until 25th December.
<directhex> where's a javaish person when you need one? /me prods persia
<handschuh> jack_: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess for requesting a sync manually (that might be no neccessary in this case but it is good to know)
<nhandler> Well, I just got up. Thanks everyone for the congratulations.
<handschuh> nhandler: congrats! it was about time
<persia> directhex, Do you have a bug number?
<directhex> persia, no. it might be intentional!
<directhex>                  [exec] javac: file not found: ../../openjdk-b13/control/build/linux-i586/gensrc/com/sun/accessibility/internal/resources/accessibility.java
<directhex> can't find a accessibility.java anywhere
<persia> directhex, What's the result of this error?
<directhex> well, i can't build this app, that's what. i'm wondering how feasible it is to actually use system source packages
<directhex> erk, compiling it eats all my RAM ^_^
<persia> Hmm.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure enough of the specifics to provide advice.  I'd recommend asking slytherin or doko
<directhex> i can see why this package's maintainer orphaned it
<sebner> nhandler: congratulations also from me =)
<nhandler> Thanks sebner!
<norsetto> congrats nhandler!
<nhandler> :)
<norsetto> nhandler: now, start uploading crack to the archive :-D
<nhandler> norsetto: You need 2 MOTUs to ack a new package, you know that ;)
<NCommander> soren, upstream's solution was to unplug the test suite, there is a warning label that it will not work correctly on non-intel architectures
<NCommander> er, Debian's
<NCommander> er
 * soren likes how "solution" can be interpreted so very broadly.
<NCommander> wrong channel
<zul> thats why he has his own target audience
<sebner> nhandler: crack can also be merges :P
<ScottK> sebner: I'm pretty sure he, of all people, knows that already.
<sebner> ScottK: sure, that was more something like a joke because he immediately refered to REVU after norsetto told him to upload stuff
<ScottK> sebner: Yes, I'm just continuing it (and failing apparently).
<sebner> ScottK: you should use a smiley like I did :P
<ScottK> Too early in the morning for smileys (still on the first cup of coffee).
 * sebner is glad to never get up too early in the morning :)
<norsetto> morning ScottK , hi sebner
<sebner> heya norsetto =)
<ScottK> Hello norsetto
<DaveMorris> question regarding packaging for libraries.  I've previously packaged up opensg 1.8 which has been accepted since hardy.  Now the new version is been worked on (2.0) which has major api/abi changes.  The easy option would be to conflict them, however it would be nice to have them installed in parallel. Which can easily be done with the headers etc, however I'm unsure as to what I should do with the libs to enable this to happen.  Are there an
<azeem> DaveMorris: your line got cut off at "Are there an[...]"
<persia> DaveMorris, Have -dev use the new one, and have differing package names for the libs packages.
<DaveMorris> Are there any packages which I can look at as examples for this?
<azeem> DaveMorris: did the filename of the library change?
<DaveMorris> azeem: no
<azeem> from /usr/lib/libfoo.so.0.0.0 to /usr/lib/libfoo.so.1.0.0, e.g.
<azeem> DaveMorris: what is the filename?
<DaveMorris> they don't produce the version part of the so, I did it within the packagin script
<DaveMorris> so I guess I need to change that so it's diff
<azeem> why did you choose 1.0.0?
<DaveMorris> I'm unsure, it may have been suggest to me
<DaveMorris> I guess it needs chaning to 1.8 then
<azeem> eh
<azeem> no
<azeem> are there any reverse-Depends for libopensg-core1?
<DaveMorris> not in Ubuntu (apart from the others flibs built from that source package)
<persia> DaveMorris, Are you expecting new users to want them installed in parallel, or just current users?
<DaveMorris> just current users
<azeem> what users are there?
<DaveMorris> who don't want to port their applications, but want to fix the bugs etc
<azeem> users as-in, applications using this libaray
<persia> OK, if it's just current users, then you can use the same source package name (which makes it easier).
<DaveMorris> mainly research projects in different users
<DaveMorris> s/users/unis
<persia> azeem, Rather, users being installed systems.
<azeem> persia: hrm? DaveMorris said there are no reverse dependencies of those libraries, so I wondered which applications need them
<persia> DaveMorris, Oh, so you do have users who want to recompile against a selected version, and not be upgraded?
<DaveMorris> yes
<DaveMorris> I guess I can point them at the right so via pkg-config
<persia> DaveMorris, In that case, you need to have multiple versioned source packages.  See e.g. wxwindows2.6 + wxwindows2.8.  Also, these tend to get rejected without very compelling reasons, so you might want to first package something that can't easily be migrated.
<persia> azeem, Remember that the archives don't yet include all available software.  While we only support that in the archives, when working with libraries, it is also useful to consider the uses to which it may be put external to the archives.
<RainCT> anyone knows which application this is? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20543025/WindowManager_screenshot.png
<DaveMorris> sorry, I don't understand what you mean by " you might want to first package something that can't easily be migrated."
<azeem> persia: right, that was my question
<persia> DaveMorris, Essentially, when we have multiple source packages providing the same library, it's harder for the security folks, and we have to keep track of which ones are still active, and which can be dropped.  This is a bunch of extra work.
<DaveMorris> so you'd rather I just dropped the old one and did the new one
<persia> So, it's nice to have something to justify the extra work: some someware which requires that extra work to be supported.
<persia> Yeah: that makes it easier.  You'll want to have a new binary name, and a new soversion if they are incompatible.
<persia> Then, advise users that need the older version to compile against hardy or intrepid, and users that want the newer version to compile against jaunty.
<DaveMorris> so libopensg-core1 would move to libopensg-core2 but  libopensg-core-dev will stay the same
<azeem> yes
<persia> That's the ideal solution, from a distro-maintenance perspective.
<DaveMorris> that sounds reasonable to me, since hardy will stay around for a while, if they want it after that they can build the software themselves
<persia> Right.  For widely used libraries, with a large number of reverse dependencies, it sometimes becomes worth carrying two versions of the library source in the archive to reduce porting pressure, but without the rdepends, there's just not a lot of incentive.
<norsetto> RainCT, that link doesn't seem to be working
<RainCT> norsetto: Here it works. But well, isn't that important.
<norsetto> RainCT, hmmm, I think I know why, I just downloaded the newer firefox update
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RainCT> norsetto: I have it too :)
<RainCT> norsetto: ah, right, you need to restart
<RainCT> norsetto: I too was sorta "wtf??" for the first seconds when it refused to load any page :P
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Grab a  merge: http://dad.dunnewind.net http://merges.ubuntu.com | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs | http://revu.ubuntuwire.com - Go review! :)
<norsetto> RainCT: :-) I ALWAYS forget that ....
<iulian> nhandler: Congratulations.
<slytherin> what is the way to specify multiple bugs in one line in debian/changelog?
<pochu> slytherin: lp: #1234, #12345, #123...
<slytherin> pochu: thanks
<slytherin> calc: ping
<calc> slytherin: hi
<slytherin> calc: libitext-java has depwait in latest version due to libbcprov-java being in universe. Will you add libbcprov-java to the list of packages to be promoted to main for OOo?
<calc> slytherin: probably should file a bug against libitext-java and subscribe ubuntu-mir to it since it is already in main
 * calc isn't sure what is normally done for packages that are sync's that gain more deps
<slytherin> calc: you mean file bug against libbcprov-java, right?
<slytherin> calc: anyway, I thought I would tell you since you are handling MIR for all new OOo dependencies.
<calc> i filed the bug
<calc> hmm maybe i'm not sure
<calc> i'll reassign to libbcprov-java
<slytherin> RainCT: I am motu now. Can you please give me the powers on revu. :-)
<loic-m> Hi. I'm trying to backport a package from jaunty to intrepid (and paybe later to hardy)
<loic-m> The package builds well and works ok, now I'm trying to do it well
<loic-m> I get the source with lget, then dpkg-source -x  and dch -i, update the changelog
<loic-m> however when I debuild -S then pbuild it, it says it's building packages for jaunty
<directhex> loic-m, does it say jaunty on the top line of changelog?
<loic-m> no, I changed it to intrepid-backports
<loic-m> when doing dch -i (then chosed nano, CTRL-O then CTRL-X and I checked the changelog was changed
<bbs> where can i find a good example of the use of the policy tool
<bbs> i was told i can come in here
<bbs> or where can i find the whole prerolled java-jre debian file
<bbs> so that i can modle off of it
<ScottK> bbs: There is also #ubuntu-java for Java specific questions.
<bbs> this isn't java specific
<bbs> this is packaging
<bbs> i need to find a wayt o pop up the terms of use notifier for synaptic
<bbs> i have never packaged a deb before
<bbs> :)
<bbs> and a good example / documentation of making debs
<bbs> i wanted to know if there is an ubuntu specific set of documentation vs. debian
 * bbs googles
<Pici> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<loic-m> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<bbs> Pici: thanks
<bbs> the problem here is this is a company
<bbs> and the only thing provided is a binary
<bbs> so there is no compilation
<bbs> really just properly moving the binary and init scripts to thier proper locations
<bbs> and popping up our terms of service
<ScottK> bbs: Look in the Canoncial partner repository.  Some of the non-free stuff they have there does exactly that.
<bbs> ScottK: kk where is that stuff :)
<bbs> sry i'm a debian nood
<bbs> noob
<bbs> but i know how to program and script well
<ScottK> bbs: Look for the deb-src line for partner in /etc/apt/sources.list
<loic-m> Ow does one pbuild packages for Intrepid or Hardy instead of the default (jaunty)?
<bbs> ScottK: i don't have an ubuntu installation
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> bbs: http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/
<bbs> ScottK: just booted a live cd
<bbs> thx for link too
<bbs> ScottK: i only see dapper and edgy -commercial delineations
<ScottK> bbs: Partner is what you want for newer
<bbs> in dists pool or projects
<bbs> sry for stupidity
<bbs> so pool
<bbs> partner
<bbs> thx
<RainCT> btw, what was decided to do with Ctrl+Alt+Backspace?
<RainCT> (iirc there was a topic about it at UDS)
<loic-m> The new xorg GUI option editor will allow setting the option or removing it for users that can't edit their xorg.conf
<ScottK> RainCT: Go with off by default (new upstream default) and a GUI way to revert to useful behavior
<norsetto> ScottK, what is upstream in this context, xorg or?
<loic-m> xorg
<ScottK> norsetto: As loic-m says
<RainCT> Cool, thanks.
<ScottK> You can probably tell I have an opinion on the matter.
<loic-m> loic-m loves his CTRL-ALT-BACKSLASH
<norsetto> right, so instead of fixing the rendering to pixmap mess that just play with that ... grrrrr
<RainCT> ScottK: yes, I prefer the the proposal to show a warning the first time you press it and restart X at the second hit
<sebner> RainCT: I suppose you can't press 3 keys accidently O_o
<RainCT> sebner: oh, it happened to me more than once :P
<RainCT> and beside my madness, new users don't know that ctrl+alt+backspace is evil
<pochu> I like the proposal of hitting it 3 times in a row for it to work
<jpds> sebner: Some people do appartently.
<sebner> O_o
<pochu> or to hold them for 2 seconds
<sebner> pochu: I wouldn't have a problem with 2 seconds
<sebner> but hitting that 3 times
<sebner> :\
<mgdm>  my machine at work sometimes requires that... :)
<sebner> Besides I use it hardly
<pochu> sebner: well, you press ctrl+alt, then with the other hand you press del 3 times :)
<mgdm> There's a bug somewhere in Compiz and the nVidia drivers which sometimes causes Compiz.real to chew 60% of RAM, and to stop responding to ctrl-alt-backspace
<pochu> it's not that annoying IMHO
<sebner> pochu: I still can't believe that some users press it accidently  ^ ^
<quadrispro> anyone on bug 292696?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292696 in ytnef "ytnef missing package dependency" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292696
<sebner> quadrispro: I just uploaded the fix for jaunty as you might know but I thought you claim to do the rest
<sebner> or do you think of sponsoring?
<quadrispro> sebner: yes, I'm looking for a sponsor for SRU, but I have to ask you another thing :) -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uck
<sebner> debian-upstream folder? urgh
<wgrant> I often used to press it manually, by flipping between Compiz desktops and hitting backspace in a terminal for some reason I don't recall now.
<RainCT> sebner: you don't believe I exist? *g*
<wgrant> s/manually/accidentally/
 * RainCT ponders sponsoring something
<sebner> RainCT: hehe. I think I pressed it accidently at my beginning ubuntu time. Maybe it's only me but normal users don't press 3 keys at the same time that often
 * sebner only killed his b0rken games with xserver restart ^ ^
<wgrant> sebner: Compiz. Switching desktops.
<wgrant> That takes you two thirds of the way there very often.
<sebner> wgrant: but cursor keys are less dangerous than delete key :P
<quadrispro> sebner: yes, debian-upstream... can I remove it?
<RainCT> sebner: but you're pressing Ctrl+Alt.. then delete something after that
<RainCT> sebner: well, I guess you can't type as fast as us and that's why you have no problem! *g*
<sebner> quadrispro: you can repack the tarball but it's usually a good idea to teach upstream to not do our business  ^  ^
<sebner> RainCT: bah :P
<RainCT> is there any Python thingie to sponsor?
<RainCT> nellery: is the .diff.gz at bug #256267 ready to upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256267 in convirt "please update to 0.9.1" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256267
<quadrispro> sebner: I'm in touch with upstream author, I'm asking him to remove debian from svn trunk, however I m going to remove it from tarball
<sebner> quadrispro: last tipp. remove the 2-3 unnecessary newlines in debian/rules. now I'm too tried and go to bed :P
<goshawk> hi
<quadrispro> sebner: thank you very much ;)
 * sebner testbuilds uck to find some lintian warnings to throw at quadrispro :P
<goshawk> if somebody has free time, can review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss please? thanks
<quadrispro> sebner: *cough cough* -> http://home.alessiotreglia.com/jaunty/result/uck_2.0.5-0ubuntu1/uck_2.0.5-0ubuntu1_amd64.build
<sebner> quadrispro: aha!
<quadrispro> sebner: and http://home.alessiotreglia.com/jaunty/result/uck_2.0.5-0ubuntu1/
<sebner> quadrispro: sebner@ubuntu:~/Desktop/uck-2.0.5$ licensecheck -r .
<sebner> ./libraries/gui.sh: GPL (v2)
<sebner> ./libraries/remaster-live-cd.sh: GPL (v2)
<sebner> debian/copyright only says GPL-3
<quadrispro> sebner: noooooooooo! :(
<quadrispro> uff
<sebner> quadrispro: and copyright in gui.sh says 2006-2007
<quadrispro> ok, working on it...
<jpds> RainCT: If you want to sponsor something, can you look into python-crontab on revu?
<sebner> quadrispro: also in remaster*.sh it's 2006-2007
<RainCT> jpds: sure
<sebner> uck only consists of shell scripts. funny
<sebner> RainCT: every source file in uck is gpl3 expect 2 files that are gpl2. COPYING is GPL2. Does upstream also has to ship a copy of gpl2 then?
<DRebellion> If anybody is looking to revu something, could I point them towards http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer ?
<sebner> RainCT: COPYINg is GPL3 I mean.
<sebner> DRebellion: I'll check tomorrow and reACK then
<DRebellion> sebner, great :D
<sebner> DRebellion: though I don't see any benefit of the debhelper update :P
<DRebellion> sebner, me neither. Oh wellz...
<sebner> nvm
<quadrispro> sebner: license is GPL-3, copyright in those files are wrong
<sebner> quadrispro: so he has to relicense that
<sebner> or correct
<sebner> whatever
<quadrispro> sebner: yes, I'm asking upstream to make all the corrections
<sebner> quadrispro:         Ão/
<RainCT> sebner: yes
<RainCT> sebner: if it's "only GPl2"
<RainCT> sebner: if it's "GPLv2 or later" then just GPL-3 is fine
<sebner> RainCT: cool thx. It was a mistake by upstream btw =)
<RainCT> sebner: then clarifying it in debian/copyright and pointing to a statement from upstream *may* be enough
<sebner> RainCT: *may* :) , he has to do other stuff as well so now worries
<sebner> *now = no
<loic-m> Are people still using pbuilder-ubuntu (where ubuntu is any ubuntu release) and if yes does anyone know where to find the script?
<sebner> loic-m: dunno. /me uses pbuilder --create --distribution jaunty
 * sebner goes to bed. gn8 folks
<ScottK> loic-m: I think pbuilder-dist-simple (or some such) in ubuntu-dev-tools
<loic-m> Thanks. pbuilder-ubuntu was the first tool I used to build packages (for feisty), but it's been deleted in one of many upgrades on my hd. Before I use it again, is it still an advised option?
<ScottK> I still use it.
<emet> there are people having MD5 errors with the flash installer, could it be possible that Adobe change the binary?
<loic-m> thanks ScottK, I found the script as /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh
<ScottK> loic-m: I think the difference between that one and the one I was pointing you too is the other is set up to have Universe enabled by default.
<loic-m> I couldn't find pbuilder-dist-simple with a locate
<loic-m> Ok, just found it with find sorry
<RainCT> loic-m: pbuilder-dist and pbuilder-dist-simple are in ubuntu-dev-tools (and are installed into /usr/bin/)
<loic-m> Thanks, I'm pbuilding-intrepid create atm ;)
<RainCT> alright, I've rejected a package.. now I'm happy ;P
 * Hobbsee rejects RainCT
<RainCT> :(
 * Hobbsee puts RainCT back in the new queue
<RainCT> Hobbsee: you should relax a bit from your admin work :P
<bbs> ScottK: i'm all set and working now -- one last question for you
<Hobbsee> RainCT: hehe, i have been :P
<bbs> is there actual documentation for handling "rules" for binaries
<loic-m> Thanks ScottK, thanks RainCT, I managed to build amd64 and i386 packages (ended up using pbuilder-dist to get i386 packages), now I can fill the backport request !
<Hobbsee> RainCT: i've been using my buildd admin hat for a while
<bbs> or actual rules for handling *.debs that are like the adobe-flash-player -- where its a single binary and its just cp /desired/install/dir : uninstall rm /desired/install/dir/binary
<loic-m> Is it ok for the backported packages to end up with -1ubuntu2 (Intrepid) when the jaunty package was -1ubuntu1?
<bbs> +++ parallels-2.2.2232/debian/parallels.templates
<bbs> i need to do something like that^^^^
<bbs> where it pops up in synaptic
<bbs> the whole other thing works beautifully
<serialorder> a packaged i am merging depends on inetd-superserver but I cannot find such a package. I see it is a debian virtual package but i cannot find it in ubuntu. Am I missing something?
<bbs> serialorder: do you have multiverse and all of those things installed
<bbs> the defaults only seem to be the openbsd-inetd and the xinetd
<serialorder> i havent tried installing yet, i just did a search for it at packages.ubuntu.com didn't see it there
<RainCT> good night
<serialorder> nm found it
<skorasaurus> hi, i'm compiling a package. when i issued debuild, i received several errors, here is what debuild returned: http://pastebin.ca/1288869\
<skorasaurus> http://pastebin.ca/1288869
<skorasaurus> it appears that gtk is not installed, but im not sure which gtk package i am missing.
<mrooney> anyone know how I might debug this python-central issue for my package? http://pastebin.ca/1288875
<skorasaurus> mrooney, sorry i don't know.
<blueyed> skorasaurus: libgtk2.0-dev maybe?
<skorasaurus> blueyed, will I have to install that ?
<blueyed> yes. Try "apt-cache search libgtk | grep -- -dev" for more
<skorasaurus> i didnt have the libgtk2.0-dev installed, so im installing it.
 * skorasaurus is compiling his first package
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-19
<skorasaurus> blueyed, that worked, (so far) thanks.
<blueyed> skorasaurus: great.. :)
<skorasaurus> aww... one more error.
<blueyed> mrooney: you could look into /var/lib/dpkg/info/wxbanker.postinst, that's where the error get's thrown..
<blueyed> skorasaurus: have you tried "apt-get builddep <packagename>" to install the deps?
<blueyed> skorasaurus: apt-get build-dep <pn> that is..
<skorasaurus> the deps for which pkg ?
<skorasaurus> the one im working on ?
<blueyed> the one your are building..
<blueyed> are you creating a new package?
<skorasaurus> im creating a new package :p
<blueyed> ok.. :)
<skorasaurus> (from source)
<skorasaurus> so, its a bit more difficult than just getting from upstream/debian, i presume.
<blueyed> skorasaurus: yes.. you may find hints in the upstream documentation though..
<skorasaurus> right im following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<loic-m> I've opened a backport request and attached i386 and amd64 packages, do I also need to attach the .dsc, the diff.gz or the .changes ?
<directhex> attaching binaries is worse than useless
<directhex> only  the diff.gz/dsc or a debdiff help
<StevenK> RAOF: So! Gnome Do is being silly
<coppro> Anyone for a REVU?
<RAOF> StevenK: In what way?
<StevenK> RAOF: If I type 'an' for 'antimony', the default action is Open, not Connect with SSH
<RAOF> Also, is JauntyTechnicalOverview on the wiki editable?  It's currently lying about the status of nouveau in alpha 2.
<RAOF> StevenK: Urgh.  That's probably an artefact of the limitations of the current relevance engine.
<StevenK> RAOF: It works on my laptop
<StevenK> RAOF: It's my desktop where I have to <tab> 's' for Connect with SSH
<loic-m> directhex: Aren't binaries usefull on a backport request if we want users to test the packages and report if they work?
<RAOF> StevenK: Probably because you typed "an", tabbed over and selected "connect with SSH", and hit shift-enter a hundred times to make sure "connect with SSH" rises in the relevance rankings :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Shift-Enter?
<RAOF> StevenK: Execute the command, but don't unsummon Do.
<StevenK> RAOF: I don't remember doing that on my laptop
<RAOF> So the command stays there, and you open hundreds of SSH connections.  Which bumps the relevence of "Connect with SSH" a lot, so it comes up as most relevant.
<RAOF> Maybe you just use "Connect with SSH" more often on your laptop than "Open"?
<StevenK> It's the default for free-form text
<StevenK> Just not for SSH Hosts
<serialorder> i had to add libxul-dev to build-dep to solve a FTBFS but now I am not sure what I will need to add to the binary package depends
<RAOF> serialorder: Unless the package is wierd, nothing.
<RAOF> StevenK: :(
<serialorder> a lot of times when I am trying to install a package I built locally I will issue sudo dpkg -i package.deb but I always get missing dependency errors. Then I have to install those packages first. There must be a better way I don't know about?
<RAOF> serialorder: dpkg -i followed by apt-get -f install to resolve the dependencies.
<serialorder> ROAF, thanks
<loic-m> serialorder: if build correctly the package should already pull the dependancies (build with pbuilder f.e., while packages build with checkinstall don't get the required dependancies)
<serialorder> loic-m: it built fine, I just wasn't sure if I needed to include libxul0d in the depends for the created packages or not
<serialorder> figuring out when to include libs is still confusing to me
<RAOF> serialorder: It's fairly simple, mostly.  If it's a python package, you need to explicitly include the python libs it depends on.
<RAOF> serialorder: If not, ${shlibs:Depends} or ${cli:Depends} will pull in the dependencies automatically.
<RAOF> (This advice may not apply to other interpreted/VM'd languages, like Java)
<loic-m> nite
<nixternal> persia, soren, and geser: I finally asked some questions on an application....I'M BACK!!!
<nixternal> :)
<nixternal> booyah nhandler!!! ready for the snow tonight?
 * nixternal goes out and prepares some snowballs to throw at #ubuntu-motu 
<nhandler> nixternal: I'm ready. We've got plenty of gas for the snow blower
<nixternal> same here...went and filled up
<nixternal> screw being green when I have the driveway I do and a foot of snow on its way
<nixternal> boo
<RoAkSoAx> i wish there's snow here :(
<nixternal> RoAkSoAx: I will send you some....you can have it!
<nixternal> we already have 8+ inches on the ground with a foot coming
<RoAkSoAx> nixternal, i'll be waiting for it :)
 * nixternal is scared
<nixternal> somebody hold me!
<nixternal> wooo, I am getting closer to "Inbox Zero"
<nixternal> right now I am at "Inbox One Thousand Two Hundred and Fourteen"
<Hobbsee> nixternal: just use rm -rf /mail/address
<nixternal> Hobbsee: ya, I kind of feel like that
<nixternal> my lord, all of the bug reports for k*
<Hobbsee> you can delete them
<Hobbsee> they're all replicated elsewhere, if you need them again.
<mrooney> Okay, I think I figured out why my package was having an install error. Once I removed the version I installed more manually via python setup.py install, the package installed fine and reinstalls fine
<mrooney> Hooray!
<mrooney> I don't think it liked having a version in site-packages AND pyshared, perhaps pythons .pth or something was conflicting
<mrooney> Jaunty should install recommends by default, yes?
<mrooney> It seems to have ignored my Recommends
<crimsun> mrooney: yes, it does, unless you've configured it by hand otherwise
<mrooney> crimsun: have I done something silly in my control file: http://pastebin.com/f6156288 ?
<mrooney> and would I need to add that recommend anywhere else?
<ScottK> mrooney: Instead of a direct depends on python (>=2.5), use ${python:Depends} and let python-central fill that in for you.
<mrooney> ScottK: oh, how will that know what versions it is compatible with?
<ScottK> mrooney: XS-Python-Version: >= 2.5, << 3.0
<ScottK> mrooney: You'll also want a build-dep on python (>= 2.5) because in theory, python-central might not always be implemented in Python.
<mrooney> ScottK: okay, thanks for the first suggestion, that makes sense. As far as the build-dep, the depends or the XB-Python-Version don't cover that?
<ScottK> No.  It doesn't.
<ScottK> Two separate issues.
<mrooney> oh oh I see :)
<ScottK> One is for calculating Python version specific information in python-central, the other is what packages are guaranteed to be provided in the build environment.
<mrooney> ScottK: thanks for your advice, how does http://pastebin.com/f7d43cf5b look? By the way any idea why python-numpy isn't being pulled in based on my Recommends: ?
<ScottK> mrooney: My guess is it's related to your system configuration and nothing to do with the packaging.  That looks fine.
<mrooney> ScottK: hrm, okay. I attempted it on a rather fresh Jaunty VM. Maybe it was already there from something else, though, that I missed
<mrooney> thanks for your help!
<ScottK> You're welcome.  Good luck and good night.  I'm off to bed.
 * nixternal hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> good morning
 * dholbach HUGS nixternal back :)
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<nixternal> doing good...going through some open bug reports, ISO testing, sponsorship queue, and MOTU applications
<dholbach> holy cow - you seem quite busy :)
<dholbach> I'm going through the sponsoring queue myself
<nixternal> trying to be at least
<dholbach> lots and lots of good stuff in there
<nixternal> ya, that is how I knew you were awake and working already, and why you got such a quick hug cuz I was watching for ya to come online here :)
<dholbach>  H E ' S   S T A L K I N G   M E !
<nixternal> muhehehehe
<dholbach> :)
<nixternal> do sync requests need one ack or 2? it has slipped my mind
<dholbach> just one
<nixternal> groovy
<nixternal> slow down on the syncs already dude :)
 * crimsun slides some sponsorships rich's way
<nixternal> floodin' my inbox
<crimsun> about that payback...
<nixternal> crimsun: go to bed already, it is 01:14 there, way past your bed time...and you definitely could use some beauty sleep :)
<crimsun> what? i'm waiting for isos to finish downloading so i can get on with iso.qa.u.c
<dholbach> hey crimsun
<crimsun> hey dholbach
<nixternal> crimsun: haha, beat ya to it...I am done with my ISO testing
<crimsun> nixternal: nice
<nixternal> figured since I will be snowed in for the next day, I should get some work done here....but it is reaching that "oh I am so tired" stage
<nixternal> I think I heard my pillow call my name about an hour back to be honest :)
<CarlFK> why did http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy-updates/python-aptsources not get into ibex?
<wgrant> It was unmaintained, Ubuntu-only, had only one upload, FTBFS, and its functionality is in python-apt now.
<wgrant> CarlFK: ^^
<CarlFK> wgrant: fair enough.
<CarlFK> any idea where i can find docs for p-apt?  like to read/write sources.list ?
<CarlFK> >>>help(apt) left me bewildered
<wgrant> I'm not quite sure.
<CarlFK> even just a pointer to a mail list or such...
<wgrant> software-properties-gtk might be a good reference
<dholbach> python-apt ships a bunch of example scripts
<dholbach> but I can't remember if that includes sources.list stuff
<crimsun> /usr/share/doc/python-apt/examples/metaindex.py
<dholbach> nixternal: where can we put up a giant notice board saying "please don't update the standards-version just because you can"? :-)
<crimsun> not fully fleshed, but one gets the idea how to proceed
<CarlFK> crimsun: when did you sneak that onto my box? :)
<dholbach> maybe mvo should give a session about python-apt at the next Ubuntu Developer Week? :)
<liw> dholbach, yes, please :)
<dholbach> liw: python-apt or the giant noticeboard about the standards-version? :)
<CarlFK> crimsun: thanks - that's the kind of pointer I was hoping for
<nixternal> dholbach: planet.ubuntu.com :)
<dholbach> nixternal: working on it :)
<nixternal> haha, how did I guess
<liw> dholbach, python-apt
<dholbach> nixternal: http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=306
<pedahzur> Hello!  Could someone point me to the maintainer or virtualbox-ose-modules. The new kernel has been out for a while, but no new driver, rendering virtualbox unusable.
<CarlFK> line 1 of /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/aptsources$ vim sourceslist.py is: # aptsource.py - Provide an abstraction of the sources.list
<CarlFK> i guess I have to file a lp issue if I want that changed...
<crimsun> pedahzur: on which Ubuntu version?
<crimsun> pedahzur: for 8.10, dkms is used, so there's no reason it would be tied to any particular linux-headers in the repo
<pedahzur> crimsun: Sorry, 8.04.
<crimsun> pedahzur: for 8.04 LTS, see hardy-proposed
<pedahzur> The ABI changed with the latest update, thus the break.
<pedahzur> crimsun: Will do.  Thanks!
<verwilst> i noticed the 64 bit flashplayer has been added!
<verwilst> i guess it's still with nspluginwrapper?
<crimsun> verwilst: the version currently in jaunty dispenses with nspluginwrapper on 64-bit
<verwilst> jaj!
<verwilst> good
<verwilst> 90% of the crashes happen because of the wrapper anyways :)
<crimsun> caveat: it has not been decided whether 9.04 will ship with such a configuration for the flashplugin-nonfree binary package
<verwilst> i've been using the 64 bit version standalone since the day it came out
<verwilst> didnt have a single crash yet
<crimsun> (for that matter, it has not been decided whether the actual binary + source names will remain flashplugin-nonfree given the presence of adobe-flashplugin in the partner repo)
<verwilst> oh
<verwilst> well that's just naming stuffs
<verwilst> i can be called humptydumpty for all i care, as long as it works hehe
<verwilst> it*
<verwilst> why have a separate partner deb for it btw?
<verwilst> i guess it's exactly the same stuffs?
<crimsun> no, the package in the Canonical partner repo explicitly ships with the binary plugin
<crimsun> the package in the community-maintained multiverse repo explicitly does not ship with the binary plugin; it wgets the tarball from adobe's download site
<crimsun> the latter also explicitly depends on nspluginwrapper for hardy and intrepid, is prone to crashes, etc.
<crimsun> the former is the vetted one by way of adobe
<crimsun> (the intent is to migrate away from the latter)
<crimsun> one very important difference is that the latter provides a means of testing alpha/beta/non-final versions. the latter can only provide _final_ versions as per the agreement with adobe.
<crimsun> sorry, the last sentence should read, "the former can only..."
<didrocks> morning everyone \o/
<verwilst> but the alpha of the 64one is included now?
<verwilst> no?
<verwilst> which isnt a final version?
<verwilst> ah
<crimsun> verwilst: in jaunty via flashplugin-nonfree (the latter one in the example above), yes
<verwilst> i think im messing up your latters and formers :)
<crimsun> well, that sentence should have read, "one very important difference is that the latter provides a means of testing alpha/beta/non-final versions. the former can only provide _final_ versions as per the agreement with adobe."
<verwilst> yeah i know :)
<CarlFK> crimsun: the intent is to migrate away from the _final_ ?
<crimsun> CarlFK: no, the intent is to eliminate the usage of a wrapper that has been prone to all sorts of post-installation bugs
<verwilst> well, the 64 bit flash and now the 64bit java plugin really start making the 64bit linux desktop a perfect fit
<CarlFK> ah, that part.
<pochu> 07:46 <  dholbach> nixternal: where can we put up a giant notice board saying "please don't update the standards-version just because you can"? :-)
<pochu> dholbach: you can remove the lintian warning in Ubuntu ;)
<dholbach> pochu: I just wrote a blog post :)
<pochu> that should help too :)
<pedahzur> crimsun: Ack!  There is a vbox modules package for 24-23, but not for 22, the current version. Sigh...I guess I could just upgrade my kernel from proposed while I'm at it. :)
<crimsun> pedahzur: right, hence "see hardy-proposed" :)
<hyperair> is there some documentation on the format of debian/package.manpages?
<dholbach> man dh_installman
<pedahzur> crimsun: Sorry, wasn't clear.  That is in hardy-proposed.  Hardy proposed has a vbox module for 24-23, but not 22.  They just skipped -23 altogether, apparently.
<pedahzur> crimsun: Thanks again.  The modules installed.  When I reboot, they'll be active.  Should work fine.
<CarlFK> does it make any sense to have a deb-src line without the corresponding/equivalent deb?
<StevenK> CarlFK: Sure does
<StevenK> CarlFK: I have a deb-src for jaunty, for example
<CarlFK> StevenK:  is that to do backport like stuff?
<StevenK> CarlFK: Nope, to do development, by grabbing sources from jaunty
<RAOF> That's /totally awesome/.  The nouveau kernel modules contain a file copyright: The Weather Channel.
<et3> I updated the bug report on a new package and I need someone whom evaluates packages look over it.
<et3> it can be found here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/307928
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 307928 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] md4sum hash utility requests to be added" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<elmargol> Is there a common way to backport packages that need a newver debhelper version?
<elmargol> Or should I include the new debhelper into my ppa?
<directhex> elmargol, unfortunately, you need to do the latter - AFAIK dh7 is now in foo-backports, but PPAs don't use foo-backports for building
<elmargol> foo=intrepid?
<directhex> well intrepid HAS dh7, so i don't know what would be a problem there. i was more thinking hardy
<Hobbsee> directhex: they do now, i believe
<Hobbsee> directhex: they just never actually publicised it very far.
<directhex> Hobbsee, that would be a major change
<Hobbsee> this is true
<directhex> also, HELLO Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> greetings!
<elmargol> is it just me or has bzr way to many dependencies?
<elmargol> http://paste.ubuntu.com/88495/
<elmargol> this is for git-core + bzr
<JontheEchidna> elmargol: a lot of those are recommends and such of bzr, plus their dependencies
<JontheEchidna> From 8.10 on recommends are installed by default by apt
<elmargol> interessting
<JontheEchidna> you can use the --no-install-recommends flag to stop that
<slytherin> sebner: there?
<RainCT> wow, fast internet :P
<RainCT> btw.. I can't use two connections at once, or? :P
<rjune_> RainCT: you can.
<rjune_> there are multiple ways to do it.
<rjune_> do you want failover or bandwidth combining?
<RainCT> rjune_: bandwidth combining, if there's an easy way for that
<RainCT> *for = to do
<rjune_> NAT or no?
<rjune_> if you don't have NAT, BGP and MLPPP are both common options
<rjune_> neither is horribly difficult, both provide both failover and bandwidth combining. BGP less than MLPPP
<rjune_> BGP requires more ( a /24 network, providers that will do BGP with you, etc.) whereas MLPPP just requires you have a provider that supports it
<RainCT> rjune_: I'll go with BGP then if that's easy (I'll only have 2 connections until next month or so anyway). Do you have some link? :)
<rjune_> if you do have NAT, then I would look at the Linux setup to do that, I can track it down for you if you like.
<rjune_> RainCT: different providers and do you have at least 256 addresses?
<rjune_> BGP is how the big boys play.
<rjune_> RainCT: disclaimer, I build routers for a living.
<RainCT> rjune_: Yes, I've one WiMAX connection and one 3G connection. The 3G connection is only available on 1 PC though.
<rjune_> 3G, as in cell phone?
<RainCT> rjune_: yes
<rjune_> ok, BGP isn't an option then.
<RainCT> so MLPPP?
<rjune_> nope, MLPPP requires one provider
<rjune_> RainCT: http://lartc.org/howto/lartc.rpdb.multiple-links.html#AEN298 <-- HOWTO
<RainCT> rjune_: so? can't be done?
<rjune_> you'll have to use NAT to do it
<RainCT> don't I need a router for that?
<rjune_> you have both links coming into your PC?
<RainCT> yes
<rjune_> as far as I know, then no you won't be able to effectively do what you want
<RainCT> rjune_: well, thanks for your help :)
<rjune_> sorry.
<rjune_> you might be able to add two default routes, but I'm not sure how that'll react
<quadrispro> hi RainCT !
<quadrispro> RainCT, can you take a look to this? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uck
<rjune_> quadrispro: what are merges?
<quadrispro> rjune_, ?
<rjune_> I have a freeday off of work, want to learn a bit about ubuntu packages.
<rjune_> topic says grab a  merge, what's  a merge
<RainCT> rjune_: that's taking a new version of a package from Debian and merging the changed that were done in Ubuntu and are still useful into it
<RainCT> quadrispro: yeh, but let me finish lunch first :P
<quadrispro> rjune_, lol, I didn't understand, however RainCT told you the exact definition
<rjune_> yup
<rjune_> merging latest debian with older ubuntu to get a pkg for latest debian
<RainCT_> sebner: I've just pressed Ctrl+Alt+Backspace accidentally!
<RainCT_> :P
<NCommander> RainCT, fail :-P
<sebner> RainCT: n00b :P
 * sebner ^5 NCommander =)
 * NCommander ^5's sebner back
<RainCT_> sebner: normal users are n00b, so if you are saying I'm a n00b, you are saying that I'm a normal user, and as I've just pressed that accidentally, it's demonstrated that normal users can press such combinations accidentaly! :P
<ScottK> Maybe that just comes up more in Gnome.  I don't think I've ever done it or come close.
 * RainCT_ has done too much philosophy at school :P
<NCommander> RainCT, normal users bang on the keys like monkeys
<ScottK> I can't see why I would.
<sebner> RainCT: nope, you are a n00b because you are a geek behaving like a normal user :P
<RainCT_> lol
<NCommander> RainCT, thus your bound to get lucky sooner or later
<vadi2> Hi. Does anyone know if it's possible to query the list of installed .desktop files for a specific one? I've looked at xdg-desktop-menu, but that doesn't seem to provide the functionality. Didn't find any other xdg-* tolls that seem to provide this either.
<RainCT_> and liferea suxs.. if I kill it it forgets which feeds I have read since the last time I closed it properly :P
<rjune_> vadi2: what are you wanting to find?
<vadi2> rjune_: this one app installed a .desktop properly but doesn't add itself to the path. so I'm hoping to find the .desktop for it, and get the exec command out of it.
<RainCT_> uhmmm
<RainCT_> why have I started a new irssi session? XD
<vadi2> (well, all mojosetup installers so this unfortunately)
<vadi2> *do
<rjune_> vadi2: grep 'title' /usr/share/applications
 * RainCT is too used to typing "screen irssi" :P
<rjune_> vadi2: grep 'title' /usr/share/applications/*
<vadi2> nada
<rjune_> ok, so it's not in there.
<rjune_> I'm not sure where else gnome looks for application files
<vadi2> app can be installed either locally or with sudo, either way
<sebner> RainCT: good that myself uses gtk stuff :P
<rjune_> vadi2: that folder is where the .desktop files are mostly at
<RainCT> rjune_: there's ~/.local
<vadi2> the .desktop itself is in ~/.local/share/applications/. but the gnome menu does have the working entry for it
<vadi2> I'd like to have some foulproof way of detecting the .desktop :\
<RainCT> sebner: what's good with that? you would have lost your connection to IRC and possibly missed messages
<sebner> RainCT: bouncer :P
<RainCT> sebner: wait until I'm doing homework.. then *I*'ll be evil to you *g*
 * sebner hides
<rjune_> vadi2: only way I know would be to grep those two directories. I could write a quick bash script to do it
<vadi2> rjune_: alright, thanks for your help
<quadrispro> sebner, hi! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uck , license issues have been fixed by upstream, I've changed package version 'cause v2.0.5 hasn't been released yet (upstream seems to be confusing :))
<sebner> quadrispro: heh, you should mention that somewhere though
<quadrispro> sebner, mmm, ok
<quadrispro> sebner, a "waiting for 2.0.5" could be right? :D
<sebner> quadrispro:  ^ ^ just mention why you use a svn version. btw, you mention debhelper 7 but don't use it's features. I propose to downgrade to version 6
<quadrispro> ah ok
<quadrispro> sebner, however I use a svn version because upstream doesn't provide a .tar.gz dist (in order to avoid use
<quadrispro> ops
<quadrispro> in order to avoid support requests, they release only .deb package
<sebner> bad boys
<quadrispro> sebner, l
<quadrispro> sebner, LOL
<quadrispro> DktrKranz told me these same words!
<sebner> heh =)
<quadrispro> however, I'm asking to upstream to release a tar.gz
<DktrKranz> quadrispro: I told you in italian, though
<quadrispro> eh :D
<sebner> is it legal to translate bad boys with idiota? ^^
<jpds> sebner: If you mean RainCT - ja.
<DktrKranz> sebner: not really, "monellacci" is more accurate
<sebner> jpds: xD
<sebner> DktrKranz: I see =)
<quadrispro> yes, sure, "monellacci"
<quadrispro> lol
<norsetto> DktrKranz, hmmm, in 19th century italy perhaps ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: maybe the north isn't so developed like the south. what an irony
<norsetto> sebner, swearword-wise the south is way overdeveloped ...
<sebner> totally
<norsetto> sebner, ask quadrispro , he is from the south (well, he is south of me anyway :-))
<sebner> norsetto: well, Roma is under the middle ^^
<DktrKranz> norsetto: I can be "modern", but modern words are so... offensive :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: to quote my italian teacher: La lingua italiana vive
<sebner> ^^
<DktrKranz> sebner: italian students kill it
<sebner> DktrKranz: heh
 * sebner is off for some time
<DktrKranz> sebner: need to study italian?
<Laney> NO! DON'T GO!
<RainCT> quadrispro: re uck, include the original manpage which you wrote
<RainCT> quadrispro: (ie, include the POD version and call pod2man in debian/rules, or at least remove all that header comments from it)
<RainCT> quadrispro: debian/dirs is probably not necessary
<bddebian> Is there a quick way for me to actually find out/remember when I became an MOTU?
<RainCT> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/people/+me
<quadrispro> RainCT, ah ok, btw upstream has just released an orig tarball :)
<RainCT> bddebian: it should say the date when you joined the ~motu team
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: Except the team structure has changed since he became a MOTU.  Not sure it that's right or not.
<RainCT> changed in what way?
<bddebian> Yeah, I'm "old school" ;-P
<RainCT> as in ubuntu-dev?
<ScottK-laptop> I don't remember exactly, but for a while 'old' MOTU were mostly in one team and new ones in another.
<ScottK-laptop> That was part of it.
<RainCT> oh
<ScottK-laptop> Remember, I'm even older than bddebian, so I can't remember ....
<RainCT> anyway, Launchpad isn't right then. check the ML archives
<bddebian> heh
<RainCT> bddebian: you should have wroten that down in your wiki! :P
<bddebian> wiki schmicky
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: No.  It should be here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
 * ScottK-laptop ducks
<RainCT> LOL
<bddebian> Wow, my karma is down to 14.  I suck :(
<ScottK-laptop> It'd be interesting if they gave karma for stuff imported from Debian.
<RainCT> does uploading packages still not give karma?
<quadrispro> RainCT, ah, debian/dirs... can I drop it?
<RainCT> quadrispro: probably
<RainCT> bddebian: "bouncy the hungry rabbit"? WTF? :P
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: No.
<RainCT> well, at least PPAs are signed now :)
<RainCT> ScottK-laptop: you must be happy :P
<bddebian> RainCT: It's a goofy game.  I haven't done an upload directly to Ubuntu in quite a while :(
<RainCT> ScottK-laptop: btw, I'm felling Launchpad's slowness too, now :P
<RainCT> and REVU is extremely fast :D
<quadrispro> RainCT, ok, removed header comments from manpage
<quadrispro> and the last uploaded orig.tar.gz comes from upstream, not svn :)
<AnAnt> Hello, if I am making a new package for Ubuntu , what should I include in the ITP bug ?
<JontheEchidna> Usually a short description of the software and a link to the software's home page are fine^
<AnAnt> Hello, if I am making a new package for Ubuntu , what should I include in the ITP bug ?
<JontheEchidna> [10:52:49] <AnAnt> Hello, if I am making a new package for Ubuntu , what should I include in the ITP bug ?
<JontheEchidna> [10:58:31] <JontheEchidna> Usually a short description of the software and a link to the software's home page are fine^
<AnAnt> is there a URL than can help ?
 * JontheEchidna looks for a wiki page
<JontheEchidna> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages See "Request a new package for ubuntu"
<AnAnt> thanks
<quadrispro> and now I've removed debian/dirs :)
<quadrispro> the package should be ready
<RainCT> POX: Hey. Can you please upload lp:~ubuntu-dev/screenruler/debian to Debian? (before you ask, "unstable" in debian/changelog is right, I'll ask for an exception).
 * ScottK-laptop gets some popcorn to watch POX do bzr.
<RainCT> hehe
<Laney> unstable doesn't have to mean destined for lenny
 * quadrispro waiting for a feedback on uck :)
<RainCT> Laney: no, but it's bad to use "unstable" if you don't want to get it into lenny, as then you can't release fixes for lenny if you need to (well, of course you can, build you'd have to undo the changes first)
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: No.  There's another path to Lenny.  lenny-proposed-updates I think.
<Laney> RainCT: That's why testing-prop
<Laney> ^
<RainCT> oh, cool
<ScottK-laptop> It's just less ideal because things get less tested there.
 * RainCT learns something new every day (TM)  :)
<Laney> Having a frozen unstable is suboptimal for us IMHO
<RainCT> Laney: there's experimental
<Laney> RainCT: Which doesn't get autosynced
<Laney> (and shouldn't)
<pochu> so help fixing RC bugs :P
<Laney> Yeah, but that's not the real point
<Laney> There's a thread on debian-devel about this now anyway
<mrooney> Hmm, how can I figure out why my package doesn't show up on REVU
<mrooney> my dput revu seems to have gone fine last night
<jpds> mrooney: Which package?
<mrooney> jpds: hey! :)
<mrooney> jpds: it's wxbanker
<jpds> It's in the rejected folder.
<jpds> mrooney: You don't appear to have an GnuPG key on Launchpad.
<jpds> mrooney: You'll have to register it at: lp.net/~you/+editpgpkeys and login to REVU again.
<jpds> Then I can move the upload back into the queue.
<mrooney> jpds: thanks, it should be registered and confirmed now
<jpds> mrooney: Relogged in to REVU?
<mrooney> jpds: yes, just now
<jpds> mrooney: OK; moved .changes file back into processing queue. It should appear on the site shortly.
<mrooney> jpds: thanks for your help!
<jpds> No problem.
<mrooney> did you enjoy UDS, by the way?
<jpds> Yeah, great time. :)
<jpds> Sorry, have to run now. See you all later.
<nhandler> I just want to verify, for normal uploads to universe/multiverse, is a bug report a requirement?
<ScottK> nhandler: No.
<nhandler> Thanks ScottK.
<ScottK> nhandler: That only comes into play later if there's some kind of featur freeze in place it trips over.
<xtophe> siretart: hey
<xtophe> siretart: would be great if you could tag debian-0.9.8a-1 in bzr for vlc
<xtophe> siretart: hmm or is it my fault as i forgot to tag in svn ?
<quadrispro> sebner: yu-hu!
<quadrispro> sebner -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uck, it's waiting for you :)
<sebner> quadrispro: :P , I haven't forgotten it. just wait 1-2 hours
<quadrispro> sebner: I can wait without any problem, I'm going to have a dinner with "un bel piatto di pasta" ;)
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> hf
<quadrispro> see you!
<mrooney> if anyone wants to help me out and review wxbanker, I'd love it :) It should be fairly simple, just cdbs for a python app already using distutils
<rrittenhouse> I had to add some packages to the depends field in the control file for a package. I run debuild -S and sign the packages. I then run debdiff $(ls *.dsc) > debdiff.patch but my patch file isn't "right". Any suggestions? debdiff @ http://pastebin.com/m411c31a6
<rrittenhouse> At first it was like this: http://pastebin.com/d1c0970b But I wanted to change where I put the LP bug tag
<nhandler> rrittenhouse: Why are you using $(ls *.dsc)? I would recommend actually specifying the .dsc files to use
<vorian> oh no! its a rrittenhouse
<rrittenhouse> Sorry. This is only my second package I've touched. Thats just what I was told to use when I was learning, sorry.
<rrittenhouse> vorian, hows it going? :)
<vorian> excellento
<vorian> you?
<vorian> are ye diving into the world of MOTU?
<rrittenhouse> trying to :D
<vorian> awesome!
<rrittenhouse> Gotta do something while i'm at work, right? ;) ;)
<vorian> hehe
<rrittenhouse> I just keep mucking up the debdiff for some reason.
<vorian> what's in the dir?
<vorian> you just need to specify ' debdiff old_version.dsc new_version.dsc > new_version.debdiff '
<rrittenhouse> I did, actually.
<rrittenhouse> It acts like its putting the stuff in the debdiff twice
<vorian> hrm
<rrittenhouse> The first time running it: http://pastebin.com/d1c0970b It *worked* but I wanted to move the LP# up 1 line
<rrittenhouse> Now: http://pastebin.com/m411c31a6
<vorian> you could edit the first diff
<rrittenhouse> I could! I just wonder why the second time around it duplicates the info.
<rrittenhouse> hehe
<serialorder> rrittenhouse: looks like the second one is the fir diff you made
<serialorder> notice the file is --- kino-1.3.0.orig/debdiff.patch
<serialorder> anybody care to give me some packaging advice for this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/308302
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308302 in eclipse "Please merge eclipse 3.2.2-6.1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,In progress]
<Majost> Does anyone happen to know if there is a 'proper' way to create a pid file for an init script when a daemon application doesn't generate one on its own?
<Majost> or at least a recommended practice. heh
<serial> if a package fixes a security vulnerability and Ubuntu Security Team is subscribed do I still need to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<DRebellion> sebner, thanks for the advocation :D
<sebner> DRebellion: np
<sebner> DRebellion: now go and find someone else to ACK and upload or complain :P
<DRebellion> Now looking for a second advocation for cifer: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer , anybody care to help?
<kees> serial: generally not. does it have a patch?
<kees> serial: (which bug # is it?)
<serial> kees: its a merge
<serial> kees: https://launchpad.net/bugs/309837
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<kees> serial: the first step would be to make it public so people can see it at all.  :)
<mrooney> persia: I cdbs'd my python distutils app, wxbanker, want to review it? :)
<kees> serialorder: also, it's not really a merge because Debian unstable doesn't have the fix yet
<serialorder> hmm I got it from MoM
<kees> serialorder: 0.60.1-2.1 seems to fix it.
<kees> (in unstable)
<kees> but the changelog in the bug is confusing.  :)
<kees> serialorder: if you can re-merge against 0.60.1-2.1 and mark it "in progress", it'll get uploaded.  since this is for jaunty, sub'ing ubuntu-universe-sponsors works too
<serialorder> kees: ok
<et3> I updated the bug report on a new package and I need someone whom evaluates packages look over it.
<et3> it can be found here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/307928
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 307928 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] md4sum hash utility requests to be added" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<serialorder> kees, ping
<kees> serialorder: sup?
<serialorder> kees: re courier-authlib  0.60.1-2.1 and 0.61.0-1+lenny1 fix two different sql injection attacks
<nellery> Lutin: Hi, are you planning on doing the babel merge?
<serialorder> i checked and the vulnerability patched by  0.61.0-1+lenny1 is present in  0.60.1-2.1
<white> sid is still vulnerable i think
<kees> serialorder: ah! okay, in that case we should wait for courier-authlib to reach unstable with that fixed, then merge
<white> yes, sid is vulnerable to the PGSQL injection
<white> not the MYSQL one
<white> it has the patch for the older issue, not for the one that just became public
<white> merging from testing-security (or testing-proposed-updates) should do the trick for ubuntu, if that is possible
<white> hope this helps :)
<kees> serialorder: if your goal is to fix it in jaunty, it would be easiest to wait for the fix to hit Debian unstable.  if you want to fix it for intrepid and earlier, the fix from testing-security should be applied, following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<serialorder> does the ubuntu wiki  remind anyone else of Borges' short story The Library of Babel
<white> kees: any luck regarding java? :)
<kees> white: not yet. doko has an update prepared, so I was going to dig through that and see if I could start mapping them to CVEs
<white> ah ok
<Majost> I have a deamon which is forking itself when launched and then the parent process' die... so I am not sure how to get start-stop-daemon to see the active PID when its done
<Majost> and it doesn't create a pidfile either. heh
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-20
<xnox> Hello! I'm trying to find Andrea Veri (bluekuja)
<xnox> He is a MOTU but I think he is gone MIA
<Hobbsee> doesn't seem to be online at the moment
<Hobbsee> although you've got the nick right
<Hobbsee> [11:10] [Notice] -NickServ- Last seen  : Nov 18 20:55:39 2008 (4 weeks, 3 days, 03:15:05 ago)
<Hobbsee> holidays, maybe?
<crimsun> please feel free to leave a message with hobbsee, who will poke with some stick or something.
<Hobbsee> hah
 * Hobbsee suggests email
 * xnox emailed him as well as his Debian Sponsors
<xnox> Basicly his packages in Debian are in semi bad state
 * Hobbsee Please leave a message after the tone.  <beep!>
<xnox> all uploads were in 2007
<xnox> there are a few new upstream releases not packaged and a few NMU and a few bugs with patches attached
<xnox> ......
<xnox> =)
<xnox> Me wants to take over =D
<Hobbsee> afaik, go ahead.
<Hobbsee> if he's mia, he's mia, and it seems he's not overly interested after a year
<crimsun> intent to hijack!
<xnox> crimsun: I'm not going to hijack I will contact debian mia team. and do everything as per debian reference / new mainteners guide / policy. Then I will hijack =D
<Hobbsee> xnox: i suspect he's forgotten about it, tbh.
<Hobbsee> most people won't leave stuff for a year, if they remember it
<xnox> What does tbh mean? (English is my 3rd language)
<Hobbsee> to be honest
<Hobbsee> (yay for acronyms)
<xnox> ok thanks
<xnox> I just hope he is alive =D
<xnox> Well his wiki/irc is the most recent. Last upload anywhere was on 3rd January 2008 for hardy
<xnox> Thanks everyone. I will right him another email and then I'll go through MIA process to get packages uptodate.
<xnox> Do you do anything with MIA MOTU's or are you keeping that title forever for everyone who becomes one?
<Hobbsee> xnox: well, MOTU stuff is group maintained, so there's no maintainer lock like there is in debian.
<Hobbsee> they do get the option to renew their MOTU rights every 2 years, and there's some discussion about what to do for inactive people
<crimsun> hmm, eventually i'll have to reapply for motu
<xnox> Hobbsee: thnx. I hope to become MOTU soon =D
<xnox> Anyone from UK or Latvia? I want to get my PGP key signed =D
<Hobbsee> xnox: you're welcome
<Hobbsee> xnox: plenty of UK people around
<Hobbsee> not at this time of day, but around.
<xnox> ok cool =D
<Hobbsee> go to a loco group, and look for people in ubuntu shirts, or wiht ubuntu stickers on their laptops, and say hello
<Hobbsee> no idea on latvia
<crimsun> #ubuntu-lv
<xnox> Loco group I went to in Hull didn't do any programming or key signing. They were just drinking =D They are sysadmins and stuff.
<crimsun> programming/drinking. one and the same.
<crimsun> quite explains code quality, actually.
<Laney> ballmer peak right?
<crimsun> hehe
<xnox> =D Lol
<crimsun> Hobbsee: do you know what become of discussions to collapse this channel into -devel and have a general packaging one? (i presume it was nixed)
<xnox> Is there a map where I can find people with PGP keys?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: beyond the plenary discussion?  I've seen nothing public
<Hobbsee> (or private)
<crimsun> Hobbsee: ok
<Hobbsee> crimsun: maybe there's internal stuff somewhere, but...*shrug*
<rrittenhouse> I'm trying to look at DaD and how the merges work. Are there any documents on the Internet that might aid me in learning about this process?
<vorian> rrittenhouse: did you check out the wiki page on merging?
<rrittenhouse> vorian, Not really. I'm looking around but I thought I should ask around.
<rrittenhouse> thx
<vorian> rrittenhouse: it's full o' info on the process
<vorian> rrittenhouse: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<rrittenhouse> vorian, Yeah I see that now. I guess I wasn't sure what to look under. I'm trying to familiarize myself with some of the packaging aspects. I made a patch that was sponsored in Universe and I just submitted one for main.. Pretty cool stuff!
<vorian> hehe
<vorian> that's awesome
<rrittenhouse> with the help of my mentor, bobbo :)
<vorian> oh sheesh
<bobbo> ahoy
 * bobbo sidles out whistling
<vorian> rrittenhouse: if you want to be a motu, you will have to do the opposite of what bobbo says
<bobbo> vorian: oi! I'm a MOTU now!
<vorian> eek!
<vorian> na, Congrats man!
<bobbo> hehe, thanks :)
<vorian> i must have missed that!
<vorian> bobbo: be careful with rrittenhouse, he's a blackberry lover
<bobbo> we cant be having that rrittenhouse!
<bulletxt> Hi, I would like to add a software to Ubuntu's repository. Is there someone willing to do the job for me as i really don't have time? The sofware is AcetoneISO
<rrittenhouse> vorian, Better than that K word ;)
<vorian> pfft
<rrittenhouse> :D
<vorian> bulletxt: please file a "needs packaging" bug on launchpad
<rrittenhouse> I'll be getting a G1 soon, is that any better?
<vorian> no
<vorian> :P
<bobbo> bulletxt: you would need to file a Needs Packaging bug, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Requesting%20a%20new%20package%20for%20Ubuntu
<bobbo> G1 > Blackberry, easily
<rrittenhouse> yep
<rrittenhouse> vorian, your the one that has an iphone ;)
<rrittenhouse> got KDE on that yet?
<rrittenhouse> lol
<vorian> \o/
<bulletxt> bobbo: vorian: this is why I'm asking in this channel:  https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/28983
 * vorian looks
 * bobbo has looked
<bobbo> bulletxt: if you follow the instructions at the wiki link i posted, a developer might pick it up and package it for you
<quadrispro> anyone on bug #309875?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309875 in isomaster "Please sync isomaster 1.3.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309875
<quadrispro> I need an ACK :)
<bobbo> quadrispro: I'll have a look
<vorian> bulletxt: do you have a link to your project page that works by chance?
<bulletxt> vorian: do you mean official website? http://www.acetoneteam.org
<vorian> ah, great
<vorian> someone posted http://www.acetoneiso.netsons.org/
<quadrispro> oh bobbo, congrats!
<quadrispro> (it's late, I know :))
<bobbo> quadrispro: thanks alot :)
<bulletxt> vorian: it was the old one but netsons domain went literally down
<vorian> no biggie
<rrittenhouse> Now I get to bug the heck out of him until I learn motu-tasks :D
 * bobbo cries as his JD is finished
<rrittenhouse> haha i'll have to send you a bottle
<Laney> Can I 0-day merges now that we're close to DIF?
<vorian> ah
<vorian> bug 105873
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 105873 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]AcetoneISO" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105873
<bobbo> quadrispro: in the .desktop we removed the categories AudioVideo and DiscBurning, but they exist in the Debian .desktop, is that ok? (Will it still fix the bug we created the delta with?)
<nhandler> 'collectd' has a versioned Build-Depends on libupsclient1-dev (>> 2.2.2-8ubuntu1). Should this change still be retained? Currently, libupsclient1-dev 2.2.2-10ubuntu1 is in jaunty
<quadrispro> bobbo: yes, it's ok (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=507369)
<ubottu> Debian bug 507369 in isomaster "isomaster's .desktop file is suboptimal" [Wishlist,Closed]
<bobbo> quadrispro: Ah ok, looks good :)
<bobbo> quadrispro: ACK'd
<quadrispro> bobbo: thank you! and... if you aren't too busy, there's bug #309878 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309878 in postr "Please merge postr 0.12.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309878
<bobbo> quadrispro: is it a simple one? I'm pretty tired :P
<quadrispro> bobbo: yes, it's very simple
<bobbo> quadrispro: right, looking at it now :)
<quadrispro> I'm very tired too, in Italy it's 2 am here, but merging&syncing&fixing-in-general is like a drug :D
<bobbo> quadrispro: hehe, where abouts in Italy are you? (Also, upload an Ubuntu->Ubuntu debdiff and I'll upload, merge looks fine)
<quadrispro> bobbo: Aprilia, near Rome
<bobbo> quadrispro: Wow, you're not far from where my Dad lives/works, in Latina
<quadrispro> yes, Aprilia is in the province of Latina
<bobbo> nice one :)
<bobbo> I may have to drop by next time I'm in Latina :PP
<quadrispro> ;)
<quadrispro> bobbo: http://home.alessiotreglia.com/ -> I've added your key to the keyring, you can find the configuration instructions here http://home.alessiotreglia.com/dput_configuration
<bobbo> quadrispro: deb-o-matic server?
<quadrispro> yesss
<quadrispro> server is mine, but it's maintained by DktrKranz
<bobbo> hehe, just wait until Luca releases my modules branch, its gonna be awesome :P
<quadrispro> I'm going to sleep, I tell you the password in pvt
<bobbo> quadrispro: cool, Uploading that merge
<quadrispro> bobbo: see you! bye ;)
<bobbo> quadrispro: bye!
<ScottK> crimsun: I'd say collapse the ML.  There's nothing MOTU specific on the MOTU ML that couldn't be on the MC list instead.
<CarlFK> dh_install: libpostproc51 missing files (usr/lib/{,*/,*/*/}libpostproc.so.*), aborting  http://dpaste.com/100939/  last 100 lines of build
<CarlFK> lone make maked, so it something in my dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b
<CarlFK> I am building on x64 box
<RAOF_> Who wants to make nouveau installable?  nouveau-kernel-source could do with a review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4297
 * ScottK looks around for someone who knows stuff about kernels.
<ScottK> spys persia ... Yep.
 * ScottK looks in the mirror ... Nope.
<cody-somerville> Whats the convention for naming tarballs of svn snapshots?
 * cody-somerville guesses and will upload to revu.
<ScottK> cody-somerville: There are choices.
<cody-somerville> ScottK, well, there hasn't been a release yet
<cody-somerville> (if that makes a difference)
<ScottK> It can either be + the last release or ~ the next one.  In that case 0.0+svn is nice.  Then either date or svn commit.
<ScottK> I like svn commit, but date it more common.
<ScottK> 0.0+svn1234
<cody-somerville> so
<cody-somerville> 0.0+svn1234-0ubuntu1?
<cody-somerville> (for the package version)
<CarlFK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto  "sudo pbuilder build *.dsc"  - there is no mention of getting the .dsc file until later "Good places to look are http://packages.ubuntu.com ..."
<CarlFK> is that the right place?
<RAOF_> cody-somerville: That looks good to me.
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Yes.
<cody-somerville> CarlFK, for dsc in the ubuntu archive yes
<cody-somerville> The thing I hate about + and ~ is the double clicking in the terminal stops the highlight at those characters :/
<cody-somerville> (so does tab)
<crimsun> hopefully your terminal emulator allows you to set the regex delimiters =). at least rxvt-unicode does.
 * highvoltage guesses that cody uses xfterm4
 * cody-somerville uses gnome-terminal :P
 * highvoltage too
<ScottK> cody-somerville: It's not a problem in Konsole.
<cody-somerville> hehe
<highvoltage> ah yes. konsole brings up a paperclip that says "It seems like you're trying to select text. Should I include that + or ~ in your selection?"
<cody-somerville> :P
<CarlFK> looks like apt-get source bc gets it too
<cody-somerville> CarlFK, yup
<cody-somerville> CarlFK, but you have to have the deb-src lines in your sources.list for that to work
<CarlFK> i normally use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -b but that errored: http://dpaste.com/100939/ dh_install: libpostproc51 missing files (usr/lib/{,*/,*/*/}libpostproc.so.*), aborting
<CarlFK> so I thought I would try the recommended way :)
<cody-somerville> :]
 * cody-somerville goes to watch a movie, bbl
<ScottK> Some rules just shouldn't have to be written down, but they do ....
<ScottK> From Debian Policy 10.2: "Producing source packages that depend on unreleased compilers is also usually a bad idea."
<RAOF_> scottK: Using debian-policy for some light bedtime reading?
<nixternal> do you people ever sleep?
<RAOF_> Rarely at 2:15pm.
<RAOF_> You look like a man who wants to review a nouveau kernel source package!
<crimsun> hmm, i think i mentioned looking at that. oops. ok, so maybe in ... 16-17 hours after work
<nixternal> my "Effective Java" book has about put me to sleep...the mentioning of 'memory leaks', 'improper garbage-collection', 'unintentional object retentions', and 'obsolete references'...I can't take anymore of it tonight
<RAOF_> crimsun: Was that aimed at me?  If so, cool.  I may have missed it with connectivity drops.
<crimsun> RAOF_: yes, it was
<ScottK> RAOF_: No.  Googling for something about -dev packaging landed me in that paragraph.
<RAOF_> Heh.
<StevenK> RAOF: How is Fremantle?
<RAOF> StevenK: It was nice.
<StevenK> Was? Blink.
<RAOF> It turned out that we didn't actually want to buy anything, and rapidly ended up at Little Creatures.
 * RAOF is in Sorrento, Perth.  Fremantle is some distance away.
<RAOF> Little Creatures is awesome.  There should be a UDS there sometime :)
<StevenK> Hehe
<et3> j
<et3> I updated the bug report on a new package and I need someone whom evaluates packages look over it.
<et3> it can be found here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/307928
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 307928 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] md4sum hash utility requests to be added" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<RAOF> md4sum?
<et3> RAOF: yeah.  It's some other hashing style than md5sum.
<et3> something for eDonkey or other...
<iulian> G'morning.
<cliffbreaker> hi everyone. I want to create ubuntu package but standard methods can't be applied to a program I want to package. It has an install script and no configure or makefile. Can anybody please advise me how to do that?
<cliffbreaker> ???
<quadrispro> hi! anyone on bug #309940?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309940 in python-minimock "Please merge python-minimock 0.9-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309940
<sebner> quadrispro: you subscribed u-u-s 10 minutes ago so just wait ;) furthermore asking here is only ok if nobody sponsores it in the next days imho ;)
<quadrispro> sebner: eheh, ok :D
<sebner> quadrispro: regardin uck and menu file. Of course ubuntu does not use menu files *but* we also want to get new package not only in ubuntu but also in Debian ;)
<quadrispro> sebner: ah! ok
<quadrispro> sebner: please, add a comment to REVU to remember me that
<sebner> quadrispro: sure
<DktrKranz> quadrispro, uck is useful for Debian too?
<quadrispro> mmm
<quadrispro> I don't believe that...
<sebner> ha
<sebner> argh
<sebner> xD
 * sebner is deleting his comment
<sebner> quadrispro: you might want to wait with your merge btw, see bug #296466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296466 in python-central "[Sync request] Please sync Python-central 0.6.8 from Debian Lenny" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296466
<quadrispro> ah! sure
<RainCT> quadrispro: openbox uses menu files by default
<RainCT> even on Ubuntu
<quadrispro> ok, if it's a problem, UCK will contain a menu file :)
<TheSheep> Hello, I was wondering how to use the https://launchpad.net/packaging
<TheSheep> I can;t figure it out
<quadrispro> RainCT, sebner:  what do you think about the note I've added to debian/copyright on the debian dir provided by upstream?
<quadrispro> I've added it to both changelog and copyright
<Hobbsee> TheSheep: you'll probably have to talk to whoever imported it.  doesn't look like an ubuntu thing, as such?
<TheSheep> I was hoping somebody here might be using it :)
<TheSheep> thanks
<RainCT> quadrispro: link?
<Hobbsee> ah
<sebner> Hobbsee: \o/
<sebner> RainCT: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uck
<Hobbsee> heya sebner!
<RainCT> quadrispro: providing a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules would be better (unless you know that it won't be necessary anymore with the next version)
<sebner> Hobbsee: mind sponsoring to things to main? (2 uploads, gnomelib rebuilds)
<sebner> *two
<RainCT> is anyone here interested in dovecot?
<quadrispro> RainCT: bhe, with the next version it will be unnecessary
<RainCT> quadrispro: okay, I can live without a get-orig-source then ;P
<quadrispro> oh, good for you! :D
<RainCT> heh
<elmargol> Is there an easy way to include .deb files to pbuilder?
<elmargol> I get this pbuilder problem any Ideas? http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m61388dcf
<RainCT> elmargol: you've to give it the .dsc, not the .changes
<elmargol> RainCT: oops
<POX> RainCT: (about screenruler) version in bzr repo and the one in Debian doesn't match
<POX> I mean, except your patch
<POX> f.e. the one in bzr has "Vcs-Browse:" field
<POX> (missing "r")
<POX> I will upload the Debian one with your patch taken from bzr
<RainCT> POX: is the "r" the only difference?
<POX> no
<POX> also: Section: utils, new dependency (libgconf2-ruby) and some changes in .desktop file
<RainCT> yep, I'm seeing
<RainCT> ok, added all changes to bzr
<POX> RainCT: btw, please add "RFS" tag in Subject if you want to have higher priority (procmail will move it to the Debian/RFS mailbox)
<POX> see http://people.debian.org/~piotr/sponsor A3 for more details
<RainCT> POX: okay, thanks
<POX> lintian complains about NMU (you forgot to add your nick in the changelog)
<RainCT> POX: damn, I thought I had already changed the maintainer field everywhere.. please use this http://paste.debian.net/24086/
<POX> uploaded
<RainCT> POX: thanks
<RainCT> POX: can I request the unfreeze now or should I wait until it's build?
<POX> it's arch:all so you can request now
<RainCT> POX: and if it wasn't?
<POX> you could request it as well :) (it would not propagate to testing if one of architectures will be missing)
<POX> (but I would wait for all architectures before bothering RMs)
<RainCT> POX: alright, send it :)
<RainCT> *sent
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<emgent> hello sebner
<sebner> emgent: is utu down?
<emgent> sebner: yaserver down
<sebner> emgent: kay
<sebner> norsetto: \o/
<norsetto> sebner: \o/
<sebner> norsetto: btw, I've to admit that I'd have advocated uck before you've done your review. /me hides
<norsetto> sebner,  why should you hide? you have done well, next one you will do even better ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: sure but some more issues you found could have also been found by me :\  --> I know that nobody sees everything but this annoys me ^^
<norsetto> sebner, I'm quite sure I missed something too, 4 eyes always see better than two. Thats why is always good to let others check your work
<sebner> norsetto: sure but there are two class reviewers ;)
 * pochu waves at sebner and norsetto :)
<norsetto> sebner, too bad that got lost, otherwise I would have shown you my first package. scottk, persia and themuso shredded it to pieces :-)
<sebner> pochu: \o/
<norsetto> Hola pochu
<pochu> ciao!
<sebner> norsetto: ^^
<quadrispro> DktrKranz: did you see my last change in uck?
<quadrispro> DktrKranz: what do you think about the CC license that I've added to debian/copyright?
<nhandler> doko__: ping
<sebner> quadrispro: do you still work on ynet?
<nhandler> Does anyone know if we will be getting python-central 0.6.8 in jaunty?
<quadrispro> sebner: i'have to prepare a debdiff for gutsy and dapper...
<quadrispro> sebner: why?
<sebner> quadrispro: well, the last debdiffs are some days old and I thought you stopped maybe
<sebner> nhandler: seems so
<nhandler> sebner: Is there any estimated timeframe? I'm trying to decide if it is worth not uploading a merge where the only change is modifying the build-depends version for python-central
<quadrispro> sebner: ah ok
<sebner> nhandler: dunno, see last comments on bug #296466
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296466 in python-central "[Sync request] Please sync Python-central 0.6.8 from Debian Lenny" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296466
<nhandler> sebner: Ok, that comment was relatively recent. I'll tell the person to wait a few days and then request a sync
<sebner> nhandler: \o/
<nhandler> sebner: What should I set the status to for the merge? I was thinking of setting it to 'Incomplete' and telling them to convert it to a sync a request once the new python-central has been uploaded
<sebner> nhandler: +1
<sebner> nhandler: and unsubscripe u-u-s meanwhile
<nhandler> Yeah, I know that ;)
<sebner> ^^
<quadrispro> sebner: bug 292696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292696 in ytnef "ytnef missing package dependency" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292696
<sebner> quadrispro: I'm not a member of MOTU-SRU =)
<sebner> annoy DktrKranz :P
<quadrispro> sebner: everything works fine, yes, I know
<cody-somerville> or me :]
<sebner> heh
<sebner> cody-somerville: but I want to be nice to you :D
 * norsetto wonders if quadrispro has a weakness for packages which miss file as a deps :-/
<cody-somerville> hehe
<quadrispro> norsetto: lol
<quadrispro> eh
<quadrispro> bye folks!
<nhandler> Is there a script in one of the dev tools packages to fetch the source files from the Debian PTS other than manually getting the dsc url and using dget?
<jpds> There's a wishlist bug for something like that in u-d-t.
<nhandler> jpds: I just made a basic perl script that should work.
<nhandler> The only issue is, dget does not support piping it the URL of a dsc file. So right now, I have my script running dget inside the script itself
<iulian> See bug 289141.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 289141 in ubuntu-dev-tools "[wishlist] please add pull-debian-source script" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/289141
<sebner> would be nice =)
<nhandler> I didn't even know we had a pull-lp-source
<iulian> nhandler: Well, there is no way to improve the script if you don't share it. ;)
<nhandler> iulian: I'm going to improve my script so that it contains all of the features requested in the bug report. Right now, it only supports unstable. Then, I'll get it added to u-d-t
<iulian> Awesome.
<norsetto> nhandler, do you use page scraping or dak queries to retrieve the debian version?
<nhandler> norsetto: Right now, I am using page scraping
<nhandler> I have no experience with dak queries
<norsetto> nhandler, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/madison.cgi
<nellery> DktrKranz: Hi, are you planning on doing the jack-audio-connection-kit merge?
<DktrKranz> hi nellery, please take it. Feel free to ping me for sponsorship (I'll be around for the next couple of hours).
<nellery> DktrKranz: alright thanks!
 * DktrKranz moves to dinner now... pizza time!
<nhandler> norsetto: That is for Ubuntu. The script I am making is for Debian
<iulian> Hmm, yummy yummy.
<iulian> I... love pizza.
<iulian> Oh, sorry. This is really off-topic here.
<nellery> nixternal: Hi, why does bug #309915 need to be acked and subscribed to ubuntu-archive, when it is a merge?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309915 in babel "Please merge babel 1.2.0.dfsg-7 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309915
<ScottK> nhandler: Look at requestsync if you want to see how to get package info out of Debian.
<nixternal> nellery: probably because I was half asleep when I did that
<nhandler> ScottK and norsetto: I think I'll stick with screen scraping for now. I can always modify it once I get a working script
<norsetto> nhandler: yes, so what? That gives you info on how to use it, then the debian url its just another one
<nixternal> I was doing syncs at one point and grabbed that as it hit my inbox 10 minutes before passing out :)
<ScottK> nhandler: Your work, so your call, but generally I find it works better to get the fundamentals right first.
<nellery> nixternal: ah, well I just noticed that I forgot to include the bug number in debian/changelog
<nellery> updating it now...
<nixternal> update the patch and tell me and I will upload it for you :)
<nixternal> sorry
<norsetto> nhandler, just as an example: curl -s "http://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=gnome-mplayer&a=source&c=&s=unstable&text=on"
<nellery> no problem
<cody-somerville> Is there a revu admin around?
<jpds> cody-somerville: More or less, what's up?
<norsetto> nhandler, if you use perl there is no need to use curl of course, just use LWP::Simple (or LWP::UserAgent)
<cody-somerville> jpds, I can't seem to merge my cody-somerville@ubuntu.com account with my new launchpad account
<cody-somerville> jpds, and my launchpad account has me as a contributor
<nellery> nixternal: updated with fixed changelog
<jpds> cody-somerville: Hmm, I'm not sure how the merging stuff works.
<cody-somerville> jpds, it says there is no account yet when I try to retrieve my password
<cody-somerville> jpds, but my old account shows up on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/stats.py
<nixternal> nellery: uploaded..thankss!
<nellery> nixternal: thank you!
<nixternal> ls
<nixternal> err, wrong window :)
<jpds> cody-somerville: I think your best bet would be asking RainCT.
<cody-somerville> RainCT, ping
<RainCT> cody-somerville: pong
<jpds> RainCT: Please see above.
 * RainCT has just come back and reads the log
<RainCT> cody-somerville: so.. why doesn't it work? :P
<cody-somerville> RainCT, "[13:33] <cody-somerville> jpds, it says there is no account yet when I try to retrieve my password"
<RainCT> yes, but I don't know why :P
<RainCT> cody-somerville: it says you have no account or it says "incorrect e-mail address or password"?
<cody-somerville> "There is no REVU account for "cody-somerville@ubuntu.com", yet."
<RainCT> cody-somerville: that's in the password recovery?
<cody-somerville> yup
<RainCT> cody-somerville: OK, found the problem. You have 2 accounts with the same address, so REVU thinks there is something strange and aborts :P
<cody-somerville> fun fun
<nellery> DktrKranz: Hi, I uploaded the jack-audio-connection-kit merge at bug #310039
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 310039 in jack-audio-connection-kit "Please merge 0.116.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310039
<cody-somerville> RainCT, can youz fix me?
<RainCT> cody-somerville: Already fixed it... Once Launchpad decides to stop being slow I'll be able to update production :P
<RainCT> cody-somerville: ok, try now
<cody-somerville> There is no REVU account for "cody-somerville@ubuntu.com", yet.
<RainCT> bah
<skorasaurus> hi, im building my first package and i'm trying to figure out how to verify what the required packages are.
 * skorasaurus is building this package from source
<RainCT> ah, missed something
<cody-somerville> While I wait, would anyone like to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sion - it is a nifty gvfs mount manager! :)
<RainCT> cody-somerville: now it *does* work ;)
<cody-somerville> w0t
<cody-somerville> w00t
<cody-somerville> RainCT, "Incorrect e-mail address or password"
<RainCT> cody-somerville: NEWS is empty, why do you install it?
<RainCT> (debian/docs)
<RainCT> I'd also leave the README out
<cody-somerville> README isn't empty...
<RainCT> cody-somerville: but it does only contain installation instructions (and the "how to run it" which is stupid :P)
<cody-somerville> RainCT, upstream ships it so I might as well install it, noes? :P
<RainCT> upstream ships a source package, we a binary package
<RainCT> "priority: extra" - any reason or did you just forget to change it?
<cody-somerville> And README is useful to the end user... it has his e-mail address so they can complain to him :P
<RainCT> cody-somerville: it should be in debian/copyright as well
<RainCT> and perhaps even in the manpage
<cody-somerville> RainCT, indeed
<cody-somerville> RainCT, just forgot
<RainCT> cody-somerville: REVU complains: This package has no debian/watch file or get-orig-source rule.
<cody-somerville> RainCT, there can't be a watch file since I have no idea how he'll release his first tarball
<RainCT> ah, it's SVN
<RainCT> so there could be a get-orig-source
<RainCT> but this does not really worry me
<RainCT> cody-somerville: I think it's required to close a LP bug
<RainCT> cody-somerville: beside those little things it looks fine to me on a first glance (and I wouldn't have expected less :))
<cody-somerville> RainCT, it isn't required to close an LP bug
<cody-somerville> Well thank you :)
<RainCT> cody-somerville: Â«When the package clears the NEW queue it will automatically be set to Fix Released (debian/changelog must close the needs-packaging bug)Â»
<RainCT> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<cody-somerville> RainCT, there is no needs-packaging bug
<cody-somerville> If there were one, then I would be required to close it in the changelog
<RainCT> that's not what I've heard before
<RainCT> but I don't mind if there's a bug or not, neither ;P
<cody-somerville> Well, I'll file one just so I can get some karma then :P
<RainCT> heh
<RainCT> Master ScottK, what do you say?
<cody-somerville> RainCT, I'm going to opt to leave NEWS in there so incase someone updates the package they don't have to remember to look and see if NEWS has content yet or not
<skorasaurus> hi, im building my first package and i'm trying to figure out how to verify what the required packages are.
<jpds> skorasaurus: You have to build it with pbuilder or something, and see where it fails.
<skorasaurus> jpds, i'm building it from source right now.
<jpds> skorasaurus: Repeat until all build dependencies are met and it builds.
 * skorasaurus is following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<jpds> skorasaurus: With pbuilder?
<skorasaurus> i'm using debuild
<jpds> You should build it in a clean chroot environment with pbuilder.
<skorasaurus> not debuild ?!
 * skorasaurus is confused.
<jpds> skorasaurus: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Intro/Pbuilder
<jpds> skorasaurus: And https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is useful too.
 * jpds -> supper. Back soon.
<skorasaurus> if i understand correctly, I could use either pbuilder or debuild to build a package, should i start over and use pbuilder instead then ?
<jmarsden> skorasaurus: Use both -- debuild runs using your local PC setup, pbuilder runs debuild but in a chrooted environemtn designed to make sure you have specified your dependencies correctly.
<skorasaurus> well, i started out with debuild right now.
<jmarsden> skorasaurus: How long does your package take to build???
<skorasaurus> thanks jmarsden, for responding. =)
<skorasaurus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20From%20Scratch
<skorasaurus> almost a minute or two. then I receive a couple errors.
<jmarsden> OK, well, then its trivial to run debuild and then (when that works!) check it in pbuilder.
<skorasaurus> trivial, that means, i should run debuild first, correct?
<jmarsden> Once it works in pbuilder you can upload to your PPA and see if the build systems can build it OK there, too.  But don't do that until it defiitely builds OK in a pbuilder.
<jmarsden> debuild first only because ti is quicker to run than pbuilder, yes.
<skorasaurus> but i should have it successfully build in debuild first ?
<skorasaurus> k.
<jmarsden> It saves time waiting for pbuilder to find sily mistakes, so that's how I do it... either way works.
<skorasaurus> that's what i thought.
<skorasaurus> and since im building from source, the directions for pbuilder required you to apt-get the source.
<skorasaurus> and the package doesn't exist in the repositories yet.
<skorasaurus> (but it is in response to a filed bug on lp, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/107927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 107927 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gens" [Wishlist,In progress]
<skorasaurus> so, right now, i'm trying to figure out what to replace Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} with.
<jmarsden> Just delete them, usually.
<crimsun> um
<jmarsden> Then if it fails you can figure out what should be there.  There may be a better way?
<skorasaurus> i know that, what to replace them with though, shouldn't i put in the packages that it requires.
<jmarsden> Yes, if you know what it depends on.
<crimsun> it's generally a bad idea to rip out ${shlibs:Depends}
<jmarsden> OK.
<skorasaurus> jmarsden, but i wasn't sure what it depends on.
<skorasaurus> for example, the original developer's readme said it depends on sdl, but there are several sdl packages that i had already installed in the repository.
<CarlFK> so if I am just building packages to install on my own system, dpkg-buildpackage is more appropriate then pbuilder, right?
<crimsun> dpkg-buildpackage is almost always called regardless of tool
<crimsun> skorasaurus: if it's that general, you should not touch ${shlibs:Depends}
<crimsun> skorasaurus: if you have debhelper installed, please man dh_shlibdeps
<crimsun> (otherwise you can just man dpkg-shlibdeps)
<skorasaurus> crimsun, k
<nhandler> What are valid debian components for dak?
<CarlFK> I can't find the 'setting up a local repo' wiki/help page I saw once.  anyone know it?
<CarlFK> I am trying to fix someone elses, and I think I need to create Release.gpg but I am not sure what that should be
<nhandler> norsetto: ping
<CarlFK> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Personal good enough
<serialorder> anybody care to share their thoughts on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/308302
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 308302 in eclipse "Please merge eclipse 3.2.2-6.1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,In progress]
<norsetto> nhandler, pong
<norsetto> nhandler, there are few ideas in my bash script that you may want to use btw
<nhandler> norsetto: This is what I have so far: http://paste.ubuntu.com/89479/. I still need to do some more testing and clean up the code
<nhandler> norsetto: Slightly modified version: http://paste.ubuntu.com/89481/
<norsetto> nhandler, I'm going through it, you may want to add experimental to the list
<nhandler> norsetto: I knew I was forgetting something. Is there a codename for experimental?
<norsetto> nhandler, not that I know
<norsetto> nhandler, you need to escape any package name that contains a + sign (like gtk+2.0)
<norsetto> nhandler, you may want to predate dget instead of using it in a system call, its in perl
<norsetto> nhandler, I'm checking why it doesn't work btw, doesn't dget on my machine
<nhandler> Here is an updated version. I didn't change the dget stuff though: http://paste.ubuntu.com/89489/
<norsetto> nhandler, ok, looks good, but the error messages are quite cryptic
<nhandler> norsetto: What error message did you get? Most of them should never end up getting displayed to the end user
<norsetto> nhandler, for instance, I just typed "pds fuma testing" (real error, I wanted  pds duma testing) and I got "No madison Passed to getDSC:"
<norsetto> nhandler, you could change the if(!$releases{$release}) with an unless (I think more elegant)
<nhandler> norsetto: Changes made. You shouldn't get the No madison error any more. I also added the unless: http://paste.ubuntu.com/89495/
<CarlFK> apt-get build-dep transcode...Package liba52-dev is a virtual package provided by:   liba52-0.7.4-dev 0.7.4-11ubuntu1
<CarlFK> is 0.7.4-11ubuntu1 really the package name?
<norsetto> nhandler, would't be better to use the basename instead of the whole path in the usage?
<nhandler> norsetto: It uses $0 to determine what is displayed. If you run it with the whole path, it will display the whole path. If you run ./pull-debian-source it will just show that
<norsetto> nhandler, yes, but I have it in my local bin, I invoke it with its name only and of course I get the whole path
<norsetto> nhandler, would do the same it if was in /usr/bin (reporting /usr/bin/pull-debian-source)
<nhandler> norsetto: Fine, I'll hard code the file name into the script
<nhandler> I just think it will look a little weird if you rename the script to foo and the script has bar coded into the message
<norsetto> nhandler, yes, thats why I said use basename() (you need File::Basename)
<jreinhardt> Hi everybody. I just went through the review (thanks nhandler) for my first package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=pgfplots) and fixed all the things. Perhaps someone can look if I did everything right.
<norsetto> nhandler, you need to add libwwww-perl and perl-modules as deps of course
<nhandler> norsetto: Yeah, but I can't do that until I add this to u-d-t. I'm doing the basename part now
<nhandler> jreinhardt: I'll look at it again tomorrow. I want to get this script done before I leave for a holiday party
<jreinhardt> thanks
<jreinhardt> and enjoy your party :)
<nhandler> norsetto: Here it is with File::Basename: http://paste.ubuntu.com/89502/
<norsetto> nhandler, cool, enjoy your party!
<nhandler> Thanks norsetto. I still have at least an hour before I need to leave though
 * nhandler is going to create a u-d-t branch and add his script
<norsetto> nhandler, please do, its a cool script and a nice addition
<CarlFK> sudo aptitude build-dep transcode did its thing. so why do I get: dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libgtk1.2-dev liblzo-dev dpatch
<nhandler> norsetto: Should I just leave it in a branch, or should I push it to trunk?
<CarlFK> this is on a jaunty box... so that maybe the reason
<norsetto> nhandler, push it to trunk
<nhandler> :)
<nhandler> Do you know if File::Basename is included with perl?
<norsetto> nhandler, its in perl-modules which is a dep of perl
<norsetto> nhandler, still, I like to have an explicit dep (same for LWP btw, its in libwww-perl which is a dep of devscripts)
<norsetto> nhandler, my golden rule is to never rely on other packages dragging in the deps I need
<CarlFK> norsetto: so when packages get consolidated... i get to figure out why there is a dep that no longer exists... *grumble*
<norsetto> nhandler, btw, if you don't succeed in predating dget, remember that the system call should have separated arguments
<norsetto> CarlFK, no, so that when somebody else f* it up, my packages are not affected
<nhandler> norsetto: What error do you get when it tries to run dget?
<norsetto> nhandler, no error
<norsetto> nhandler, its fine now, after you changed from ftp.de though
<CarlFK> so it breaks when things are ok, but not when thing's are broken.. um... that 'might' be good...
<norsetto> CarlFK, what is it that break?
<CarlFK> "when somebody else f* it up,"
<nhandler> Ok. One last question, should I add a changelog entry to debian/changelog? Or will the person who pushes it to the repos add an entry?
<norsetto> CarlFK, no, "when  things are ok" !?
<norsetto> nhandler, add it in your name and you keep the suite as UNRELEASED
<CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=names&keywords=python-aptsources
<CarlFK> I just had to figure out why there was no ibex version
<nhandler> norsetto: What about the version?
<norsetto> nhandler, bump it
<norsetto> nhandler, btw, you might as well use an exec instead of a system
<nhandler> norsetto: What is the difference?
 * nhandler is working on adding a manpage
<norsetto> nhandler, you don't need to fork and wait
<cody-somerville> Does anyone want to quickly review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sion before I upload?
<norsetto> cody-somerville, priority for the dbg package should be extra (thx lintian)
<cody-somerville> ah, good catch. I forgot to run lintian against the dbg package
<norsetto> cody-somerville, comment in desktop file is not in accordance with the Gnome GUI
<cody-somerville> norsetto, I'll be sure to file a bug with the upstream
<norsetto> cody-somerville, I think you should add gnome-icon-theme as a dep since your package requires the gtk-network icon to be present
<norsetto> cody-somerville, a watch file would be nice of course
<cody-somerville> norsetto, okay.
<cody-somerville> norsetto, I dunno why gnome-icon-theme isn't named gtk-icon-theme
<nhandler> norsetto: I pushed it to my branch: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nhandler/ubuntu-dev-tools/nhandler. It should show up in a little bit. I'll push it to trunk when I get back from the party
<cody-somerville> norsetto, ah, its supplied by tango as well
<cody-somerville> and tangerine
<cody-somerville> and a number of icon themes
<cody-somerville> I think gtk-network is just a standard icon name
<norsetto> cody-somerville, it is, but how to make sure that there is at least one?
<cody-somerville> norsetto, if you don't have an icon theme installed, can it not be assumed you don't want icons? ;]
<cody-somerville> norsetto, plus, adding that as a dependency or recommends or w/e could result in me pulling in icon themes into Xubuntu I don't want
<norsetto> cody-somerville, thats the case in my case :-) But I'm quite sure somebody will issue a bug report complaining that the entry in the menu doesn't have an icon .....
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Is there a xfce icon theme you could have as an alternate recommends?
<cody-somerville> ScottK, Sure but I don't think its standard practise to depend on specific icon themes because a package's desktop file uses a fd.o complaint icon name
<cody-somerville> Infact, I think the whole point is to that we can assume it'll Just Work (TM) as long as the icon theme you are using fully supports the fd.o standard.
 * ScottK wonders if there should be some icon theme virtual package along the lines of mail-transport-agent.
<norsetto> cody-somerville, any way you can superseed the gtk2.0+.pc file which drags tons of not needed depends?
<cody-somerville> norsetto, Although it isn't using those libs yet, I imagine they are going to as the the README specifies them as dependencies
<norsetto> cody-somerville, ahhhh, its some kind of pre-alpha stuff ... hmmm
<cody-somerville> ScottK, like a: Provides: free-desktop-icon-theme or something?
<norsetto> cody-somerville, *cough* are you sure we absolutely need it *cough*
<ScottK> Yes.  Something like that.
<ScottK> Dunno though.  Just a thought.
<cody-somerville> norsetto, need the package or the dependencies?
<norsetto> cody-somerville, the package
<cody-somerville> norsetto, Absolutely. Its a specification targeted for Jaunty :)
 * ScottK grumbles the last time he heard that it was for cruft cleaner.
<cody-somerville> Anyhows, I'm going to push to jaunty now with your catch norsetto about the priority of the dbg package
<norsetto> cody-somerville, the makefile reports the version as being 0.0.1 btw (not that it is important)
<cody-somerville> norsetto, yup
 * cody-somerville does one last test build before uploading.
 * ScottK would also (generically, haven't looked at this package) on last grep -ir copyright * over the source too.
 * norsetto thinks he will glide toward his bed soon
 * norsetto also thinks that reading debian m.l./planet debian is much better than watching soap operas (and there is less publicity too)
 * norsetto leaves for good
 * ScottK hopes he means for today only.
<serialorder> my ppa is broken =( anyone know who I should contact?
<Hobbsee> serialorder: #launchpad
<serialorder> Hobbsee,thanks
<Hobbsee> serialorder: you're welcome
#ubuntu-motu 2008-12-21
<anakron> HI all
<anakron> hi persia
<anakron> i have one question
<anakron> if a package is not assigned to ubuntu motu developers
<anakron> and it doesnt have any ubuntu version and it make that update-maintainer got useless
<anakron> what i can do?
<anakron> if a package is a 'Git' version
<Hobbsee> get it fixed in debian?
<anakron> if a package is a 'Git' version, what it means?
<azeem> anakron: it's not a made from a release tarball, but from a git snapshot
<anakron> so
<anakron> how i can make a patch for it
<anakron> it doesnt have any ubuntu version
<azeem> what kind of patch?
<azeem> what is the version?
<anakron> change in .desktop file
<anakron> 1-9.1
<azeem> 9.1 would be the ubuntu version then, no?
<azeem> what's the package name?
<anakron> qtpfsgui
<azeem> looks like "1.9.1-1build1" is the version, rather?
<anakron> jeje si
<anakron> yes
<azeem> so why do you think there is no Ubuntu version?
<anakron> nono
<anakron> i must add it into control file?
<azeem> add what?
<anakron> ubuntu version?
<azeem> for which field in control?
<anakron> ops
<anakron> dont worry, i was reading bad
<anakron> the problem was
<anakron> that the source package that i've downloaded doesnt have the same info that the package that you can see with "apt-cache show qtpfsgui"
<azeem> that is expected, the apt-cache show info is assembled from different sources
<anakron> so, when i tried to make an update-maintainer it cannot be done because it doesnt have a ubuntu version
<azeem> what is "it"?
<azeem> well
<azeem> I never used update-maintainer, so I guess I won't be able to help you anyway
<Hobbsee> azeem: it complains if you try to use it to update the maintainer, when it's not an ubuntu version in debian/changelog
 * Hobbsee has no idea why anakron doesn't forward the desktop patch to debian, rather than making it require merging all the time
<anakron> yes
<emgent> heya
<cody-somerville> ScottK, hey
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Hey.
<cody-somerville> ScottK, do you want to give me a little bit of archive admin love? ;]
<cody-somerville> ScottK, (more specifically, sion in the new queue)
 * ScottK isn't an archive admin.
 * ScottK thinks you're thinking of StevenK.
<cody-somerville> I thought they made you one too
<ScottK> Nope.
<ScottK> Or if they did, they forgot to tell me.
<cody-somerville> :]
<pythonic> hi. i dput a package, but i did not get a confimation email, and it doesn't show on revu.ubuntuwire.com
<pythonic> how long does that take usually?
<vorian> not long
<vorian> pythonic: when did you upload it?
<pythonic> maybe 15 minutes ago
<vorian> what package?
<pythonic> bucardo
<pythonic> an asynchronous replication system for PostgreSQL
<pythonic> it has Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<vorian> hrm, i've uploaded to revu just now while we are chatting and it went through
<vorian> do you have your keys synced etc...
<vorian> ?
<pythonic> i uploaded my key to launchpad, and logged in to revu
<vorian> i think you need to be a member on the revu-uploader team on lp
<vorian> maybe NCommander can comment on that :)
<nhandler> vorian: That team is obsolete now
<NCommander> what nhandler said
<vorian> ah
<nhandler> If your gpg key is in LP, and you sign into revu, it should work
<vorian> twnhs?
<nhandler> vorian: I'm making that a VoteBot factoid ;)
<vorian> awesome!
<NCommander> I don't see it in the rejection pool
<NCommander> nor is it in incoming
<vorian> since y'all are awake, mind looking at kwin-dekorator-kde4? (fresh on revu)
<pythonic> i'm using the dput configuration from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<NCommander> pythonic, it never made it to REVU it seems
<NCommander> I can't find a rejection log, or anything in REVU-incoming
<pythonic> dput now says Already uploaded to revu.ubuntuwire.com
<vorian> pythonic: did you do "dput revu pythonic_special.package ?
<vorian> ah
<NCommander> wait, found it
<NCommander> You did a full upload
<pythonic> dput revu foo-0ubuntu1_amd64.changes
<pythonic> ok.. is that bad?
<NCommander> You need to do a source only upload or REVU will REJECT
<NCommander> Do debuild -S -sa
<NCommander> then upload the _source.changes
<NCommander> (you'll probably have to give dput the -f option to force it)
<ScottK> or just rm the .upload file.
<ScottK> vorian: Why kde4 in the package name?  It's all kde4 now.
<vorian> ScottK: well, it seems there is a kwin-style-dekorator still in archives
<vorian> and it's a completely different license
<ScottK> vorian: Then maybe just shove the new package under the old name.  If it's kde3 it's not gonna work anyway.
<ScottK> vorian: Same upstream or a different one?
<vorian> different, it's a port to kde4
<ScottK> I'd still replace it.
<vorian> ScottK: it's by the same author who did nixternal's love "skulpture"
<vorian> ScottK: okie dokie
<ScottK> Hmmm.  OK.
<vorian> ScottK: sorry for pinging you so much :P
<ScottK> Yeah.  No point in keeping broken KDE3 stuff around.
<ScottK> No problem.
<vorian> :)
 * ScottK will ignore you if it gets to be too much.
<vorian> :o
<vorian> how rude
<ScottK> The pinging to much or the ignoring?
<ScottK> ;-)
<vorian> the pinging of course
<nhandler> vorian: I thought closing a needs-packaging bug was a requirement
<ScottK> nhandler: Not really.  Is it written down as required anywhere?
<NCommander> ScottK, in Debian or Ubuntu?
<ScottK> Ubuntu
<NCommander> THen no, its not
<NCommander> AFAIK
<ScottK> If it was Debian it'd be an ITP, not a needs-packaging bug.
<ScottK> Ohhh.  Very shiny.  New lintian check: latest-debian-changelog-entry-changed-to-native
 * ScottK thinks he'll merge lintian.
<nhandler> ScottK: I think it is mentioned in a few other locations, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/CheckList
<nhandler> ScottK: There is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FPackages%2FNew
<nhandler> There it says "if there is no needs-packaging bug, file one"
<vorian> NCommander: that little icon off to the right on a package line is the "archive" button?
<NCommander> yeah
<vorian> coolio
<pythonic> NCommander: thanks, the package is uploaded now: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bucardo
<ScottK> NCommander or vorian: Got a Kubuntu Jaunty installation handy?
<NCommander> I can install kubuntu desktop if that's what you mean
<NCommander> Why do you ask?
<vorian> ScottK: yep
<ScottK> There's some discussion about if kdenlive should require ffmpeg as a hard depends, recommends, or suggests.
<ScottK> NCommander and vorian^^ (had to go retrieve $MIDDLE_CHILD from the mall).
<NCommander> Recommends is best
<NCommander> IMHO
<ScottK> There was some discussion it wouldn't work at all without it.
<vorian> haha
<vorian> hrm
<ScottK> Someone else said it was just needed for capturing on firewire.
<ScottK> So I was hoping one of you might fire it up and see if you can use it at all without ffmpeg.
<vorian> sure thing
<ScottK> Thanks.
<vorian> ScottK: what bug has the fella's finished package?
<ScottK> vorian: I'll look, but it's uploaded, so just test with what's in the archive now.
<vorian> ok
<vorian> i fogot how much fun dekorator is :)
<vorian> and with a killer kwin, it's really nice
<ScottK> vorian: It's  Bug #269191.  Please put a comment in there once you've tested.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269191 in kdenlive "[Wish]Please include Kdenlive 0.7 for kde4 in the repoÂ´s" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269191
<vorian> starts fine..
 * vorian needs to find a clip
<vorian> ScottK: this build is w/out ffmpeg? if so, it works fine.  Looking at the site however, FFmpeg does appear to be a strong recommends
<vorian> ScottK: if you would like, i can fix it (i pulled the source)
<ScottK> Sure thing.
<vorian> ScottK: MLT relies on FFmpeg compilation parameters. If your distribution ships with an outdated FFmpeg version, it may not be able to use the audio and video codecs like h264 or AVCHD. In this case, recompile FFmpeg with all needed options or ask FFmpeg packager to upgrade.
<vorian> I would say that qualifies as a Depends
<vorian> (I was just reading further into it)
<ScottK> Were you able to edit video without it?
<ScottK> vorian: ^^^
<vorian> i havent gotten that far yet
<ScottK> vorian: OK.  If you can edit video without it, then I go recommends.  If you can't then depends.
<vorian> roger that
<vorian> ScottK: yep, it's required as far as i can tell
<vorian> without it, you can't even pull up the clip
<ScottK> OK.  Debdiff me and I'll sponsor you.
<ScottK> vorian: Thanks for testing.
<vorian> ScottK: i can upload it :)
<ScottK> vorian: Right.  Forgot.  Go for it.
<ScottK> vorian: Thanks again for taking care of it.
<vorian> no problem \o
<vorian> /
<RAOF_> crimsun: Are you still planning to review nouveau-kernel-source?
<crimsun> RAOF: yep
<crimsun> just running through a list of (unrelated) bugs first, then i'll pop over
<RAOF> Ta
<AnAnt> Hello, I am intending to package a python software, can someone give me an example of a simple package for python software ?
<RainCT> AnAnt: does it have a setup.py file?
<AnAnt> yup
<AnAnt> RainCT: yup
<RainCT> AnAnt: you could have a look at fusion-icon then
<RainCT> AnAnt: it's pretty easy, you just have to use one of the methods described on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<AnAnt> problem is that I dont know python
<pochu> AnAnt: that doesn't matter
<pochu> AnAnt: have a look at emesene too
<pochu> AnAnt: and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
<AnAnt> emesene uses cdbs too ?
<RainCT> AnAnt: yes - apt-cache showsrc emesene | grep Build-Dep
<RainCT> nhandler: I've moved the perl Depends on ubuntu-dev-tools to Recommends as they are only being used by your script (and some of the other existing Depends should probably also moved there now that recommends are installed by default)
<AnAnt> hmm, what if I just use debhelper ?
<RainCT> AnAnt: then look at the debhelper example on the wiki. it's basically the same but you'll have to call setup.py and dh_pycentral/pysupport manually
<pochu> I think debhelper 7 will do that for you
<pochu> RainCT: ^
<AnAnt> dh_pycentral ?
<AnAnt> nevermind, that question
<AnAnt> Hello, is there a command to convert svg to png ?
<pochu> you can probably do that with imagemagick, but I don't know the exact command line
<AnAnt> convert ?
<pochu> possibly
<AnAnt> didn't know that imagemagick supports svg
<loic-m>  inkscape filename.svg --export-png=filename.png
<loic-m> (if imagemagick doesn't work, or if the .svg has special inkscape properties. I'm not sure if imagemagick supports blur or transparency)
<nhandler> RainCT: ping
<bigon> ssmping is currentfy FTBFS (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20535239/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.ssmping_0.9.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz) if I declare __USE_GNU it builds correctly, is it an acceptable solution?
<pochu> ScottK: the work is almost done :-) http://www.emesene.org/trac/ticket/1955
<CarlFK> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2  http://dpaste.com/101269/
<handschuh> CarlFK: its your remove-rules
<handschuh> CarlFK: the make file tries to delete something out of a non-existing directory
<soot> Anybody know of a tool that will produce colorful diffs in PDF or PS format?
<handschuh> CarlFK: so try to create these dirs (manually, at the beginning) and see if everything wokrs
<CarlFK> soot: here is a list I made a few years ago http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~DiffPrograms~SoftwareEng
<pochu> You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
<pochu> been automatically rejected.
<pochu> nice @ kubuntu-devel@l.u.c
<CarlFK> ah, looks like export_divx4 is now ...5
<CarlFK> rules has "-rm foo" which errors "rm: cannot remove `foo': No such file or directory" but "make: [install] Error 1 (ignored)".  is the - before the rm what ignores the error?
<pochu> CarlFK: yes
<pochu> CarlFK: you could also do `rm -f foo`
<pochu> -f will ignore errors too
<pochu> (in rm)
<CarlFK> is the - prefix being recognized by dpkg-buildpackage ?
<pochu> I think it should
<pochu> that's from make
<pochu> and dpkg-buildpackage should run "make debian/rules clean" or something like that
<pochu> or that's what I think :)
<CarlFK> oh yeah, it is make that says "(ignored) "
<ScottK> pochu: Great.
<sebner> ScottK: you christmas present arrived (kdenlive) \o/
<sebner> *your
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> I didn't even have to package it.  ;-)
<CarlFK> why does the s/f in "aptitude -s -f build-dep" cause  "Would download/install/remove packages." instead of installing?  http://dpaste.com/101297/
<nhandler> NCommander: Aren't you a REVU admin?
<RainCT> nhandler: pong
<nhandler> RainCT: Is there any reason you changed the name on the changelog entry for u-d-t?
<RainCT> nhandler: no, dch does that automatically
<nhandler> RainCT: Ok. I wanted to push a new change, and just wanted to make sure.
<nhandler> Also, do you really think it is worth having listing "Add foo to Depends" and "Move foo from Depends to Recommends" in the chnagelog entry? I can understand having it in the bzr commit log, but is it really needed in the package changelog?
<RainCT> nhandler: for ubuntu-dev-tools, usually when someone uploads a new version to the archives (s)he changes it to himself anyway
<RainCT> nhandler: and no, feel free to remove that
<nhandler> Ok, thanks.
<serialorder> anyone want to sponsor a really easy merge for me? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icedove-nostalgy/+bug/303702
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 303702 in icedove-nostalgy "Please merge icedove-nostalgy_0.2.15+svn131-2ubuntu1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<nhandler> serialorder: I'll take a look at it
<nhandler> serialorder: Your changelog entry has a few minor issues
<nhandler> 1) You have an extra *
<nhandler> 2) For the change to the description, move the "debian/control" line so it is either at the beginning of the previous line or before the previous line
<nhandler> And is it even worth doing the merge? The Ubuntu->Ubuntu debdiff is pretty much empty
<nhandler> The one change that they made in Debian was changing thunderbird to icedove in the description. Since we revert the change in the merge, I don't see any point in merging this version
<serialorder> ok well just leave it for when the next version gets merged then
<Turl> hello
<Turl> do you package flashplugin-nonfree ?
<Turl> if you do, may I ask why sbdy marked https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/310031 as invalid?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 310031 in flashplugin-nonfree "[jaunty] Ubuntu should install 64bit flash when installing flashplugin-nonfree on 64bit systems" [Undecided,Invalid]
<pochu> crimsun: ^ you closed that bug without a comment
<sebner> does there already exist a 64bit flashplugin?
 * sebner winks pochu =)
<pochu> sebner: yes :P http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
<sebner> pochu: well, alpha
<pochu> sebner: your question was wether it existed or not; the answer is yes ;)
<sebner> pochu: true so we also have the answer why this bug was marked as invalid ;) we don't ship alpha software
<pochu> anyway, I think the bug should have been closed with a comment
<ScottK> sebner: Sure we do.  People upload buggy crap all the time.  In the case of Flash that would be redundant though.
<sebner> heh
<sebner> pochu: sure
<mrooney> if anyone wants to help me out and review a simple cdbs packaging of a python distutils app "wxbanker", I would greatly appreciate any comments or feedback :)
<loic-m> flashplugin-nonfree already installs 64bits flash. Why was the bug submitted?
<crimsun> pochu: i closed that bug because 1) the existing flashplugin-nonfree does precisely what the summary requests; 2) i spoke with bug reporter in #ubuntu+1 immediately
<crimsun> pochu: while i agree that an explanation in the bug report would have been icing on the cake, i felt it was unnecessary to recap what has been wasted in not so many words over the past several days in several irc channels, forum posts, mailing lists, ad nauseum.
<pochu> crimsun: ah, good :) sorry if I was picky
<loic-m> I've updated the bug description. If the question comes back in the next few days, maybe we can edit the title too...
<CarlFK> I need a gui to display a .diff so that I can see what really changed...
<CarlFK> wish the guy that was looking for that was still around...
<crimsun> wow, ucf's ncurses/dialog diff viewer is uh, pretty difficult to read
<cody-somerville> ScottK, In your e-mail, did you mean ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-devel merge?
<crimsun> loic-m: thanks
<CarlFK> kompare has "open diff" - exactly what I need
<ScottK> cody-somerville: For motu specific stuff (of which there isn't much any more) keep either MC or MOTU list and then all the development stuff would go to ubuntu-devel.
<CarlFK> and it's flowy graphics stuff is pretty useful
<CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/i386/libavcodec-dev/filelist  /usr/include/ffmpeg/avcodec.h
<CarlFK> what puts that file there?
<CarlFK> libavcodec-dev comes from ffmpeg, and ffmpeg puts it in  /usr/local/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h
<ScottK> If it's from the packaged ffmpeg, it better not put it in /usr/local.
<CarlFK> ScottK  ffmpeg trunk defaults to  /usr/local/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h
<CarlFK> something is changing that.  I want to point to that for why something else should follow
<crimsun> your "that"s are ambiguous =)
<crimsun> keep in mind that the pkgconfig file that ships with libavcodec-dev provides the preprocessor with the path
<CarlFK> damm.. I am noramly pretty good about avoiding pronows
<crimsun> so just look for libavcodec.pcs scattered across your FS
<crimsun> e.g., do you have a /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/libavcodec.pc ?
<CarlFK> yup. looking ...
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/101371/
<crimsun> right, as expected. but, do you in fact want the ffmpeg in /usr/local to be used?
<CarlFK> well, I want there to be only one.  http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/jaunty/ffmpeg2theora currently patches this include lines to look for it .. oh crap... I got confused.
<CarlFK> the patch is +#include "ffmpeg/avformat.h"
<CarlFK> let me rewind and track down avformat.h
<crimsun> well, of use to you may be $PKG_CONFIG_PATH and --define-variable=prefix somepath
<CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/i386/libavformat-dev/filelist /usr/include/ffmpeg/avformat.h
<CarlFK> I have gotten everything installed and working, but it took some futzing
<crimsun> alternately, simply remove the system-wide packages generated from ffmpeg source
<CarlFK> trying to figure out what should be updated so the next person (maybe me) doesn't have to futz
<loic-m> I'm trying to package a really simple application (command line, only 2 binaries, one for compression the other for decompression)
<loic-m> using dh_make
<loic-m> However it comes with no makefile, no configure
<loic-m> I'm at the stade where I edit debian/rules
<loic-m> build-stamp: should I make a makefile, or can i just write a gcc name_of_the_source_file?
<CarlFK> loic-m: i would make a make file.
<CarlFK> I would rather have a simple makefile than have to figure out why there is no makefile
<CarlFK> but that;s just me, and generally I don't know what the heck is going on :)
<loic-m> Should i learn how to write one, or is there a generic one or a tool to generate one?
<CarlFK> autotools will generate it, and maybe that would follow my "provide the expected files" approach...
<crimsun> loic-m: it's really up to you (the maintainer) regarding what to put into debian/rules, but i, too, recommend creating a Makefile(s)
<crimsun> loic-m: the syntax for Makefiles is pretty straightforward
<crimsun> (of course there are people who argue that make and Makefiles, recursive or otherwise, are Bad)
<loic-m> Is there a simple documentation on how to write makefiles? I'm trying using google, but the makefile I'm writing doesn't work when I type make
<loic-m> Makefile:20: *** commands commence before first target. Stop.
<directhex> what's the normal length of time between a sync ack and an archive admin making it happen?
<crimsun> http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/make/Simple-Makefile.html
<mgdm> loic-m: in an instance of extraordinary levels of "WTF", Makefiles differentiate between tabs and spaces
<mgdm> it might be something to do with that
<crimsun> yes, beware the tab requirement
<CarlFK> that's pretty complex for simple-makefile
<crimsun> directhex: probably on the order of a couple days
<crimsun> really depends who's on holiday/asleep/building death ray machines
<loic-m> thanks, the other pages explains it too
<directhex> bloody death rays. always keepin' me down
<loic-m> however when I use cc foo.c it produces the binary, but names it a.out
<loic-m> how do I tell it to name it foo instead?
<DRebellion> loic-m, cc foo.c -o foo
<loic-m> thanks
<loic-m> since it only produces the binaries, I don't need a clean target?
<DRebellion> loic-m, in your makefile? make clean should return the tarball to the state before you called make. ie. it should delete the binaries
<loic-m> ok, so no need for it in makefile
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.com/101391/ /usr/include$ cd ffmpeg =  No such file or directory
<CarlFK> "Setting up libavformat-dev" - shouldn't that have installed /usr/include/ffmpeg/avformat.h http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/i386/libavformat-dev/filelist
<nhandler> Anyone feel like reviewing plasmoid-spellcheck on REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=plasmoid-spellcheck
<loic-m> To install files, I use in debian/rules the command: install -m 755 -t /usr/bin ecm unecm
<loic-m> However when I run pbuilder-intrepid (testing if it works) I get the error: install: cannot create regular file `/usr/bin/ecm': Permission denied
<cody-somerville> Anyone here familiar with Valgrind?
<cody-somerville> It doesn't appear to be able to build in Jaunty due to the new glibc version
<cody-somerville> configure: error: Valgrind requires glibc version 2.2 - 2.7
<ScottK> I know the existing one works on Jaunty.  I've used it.
<cody-somerville> Weird, the news file says 3.3.1 adds support for glibc 2.8
<ScottK> Did you look in Experimental for a newer one?
<cody-somerville> ScottK, yes
<cody-somerville> ScottK, I imagine valgrind would FTBFS in Debian too under experimental but not unstable since it still has 2.7
<loic-m> I manage to build a package, but it contains no binaries :(
<loic-m> in debian/rules for install: , after the lines generated by dh_make I've got
<loic-m>         $(MAKE) prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr
<loic-m> 	install -m 755 ecm $(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr/bin
<loic-m> (one of the two binaries is ecm, I'm trying with one first)
<loic-m> if I just put install instead of install -m 755 ecm $(CURDIR)/debian/$(package)/usr/bin it's the same result
<cody-somerville> ScottK, ah
<cody-somerville> ScottK, it appears there is a debian patch that sets the version
 * WelshDragon test
 * WelshDragon asd
<cody-somerville> ScottK, (or there was in the past, it doesn't get applied anymore)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-14
<machina> Hi, I have a question. To fix this upgrade bug ( Bug #206862 ), should I follow the steps outlined here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#Preparing New Packages
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206862 in xsensors "New upstream version (0.60) available" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206862
<persia> machina: That package is maintained in Debian.  You might want to work with Nick Rusnov to follow up on Debian bug #446530
<ubottu> Debian bug 446530 in xsensors "xsensors: New upstream version (0.60) available" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/446530
<persia> But yeah, if you're preparing a new upstream, and it's for Ubuntu only, that's roughly the right procedure.
<machina> persia: I read the Debian bug report and noticed that Siegfried's call for a follow up on the bug was left unanswered. So I thought I might just package it for Ubuntu, then worry about the debian upstream later...
<persia> The packaging is about the same for either Debian or Ubuntu.  If you prep some work, and contact the maintainer to get it uploaded, you might do well.
<persia> If not, sure, just update in Ubuntu (but be warned that this may make merging hard if the orig.tar.gz differs in Debian later)
<machina> I'm pretty new to packaging, what kind of prep work would you mean?
<persia> OK.  I tend to do the following when updating a package.
<persia> 1) Download the new source
<persia> 2) Try to apply the previous diff.gz
<persia> 3) review any patches to the source to make sure they still apply and solve the relevant issue.
<persia> 4) loot for any bugs in Ubuntu and try to fix them
<persia> 5) look for any bugs in Debian and try to fix them
<persia> 6) Look at some other distributions to see if they have any patches that look interesting (and try to apply them)
<persia> But that's sorta general.  Do you know how to manipulate package sources, or are you still learning this?
<machina> i don't remember much, so yea i'm still learning
<machina> I know how to apply patches & such though
<persia> And how to use the various patch systems for debian-format source packages?
<machina> i'd have to refer to a wiki for that
<persia> That's OK.  I'm just trying to gauge the level of description you need :)
<persia> I'd guess you're in a good state to try to follow the steps above.  Just ask here when you run into something you're unsure about.
<machina> alrighty thanks
<nxvl_> persia: isn't easier use uscan; uupdate?
<persia> nxvl: uscan only downloads upstream if the watch file works (not often in my experience for packages that don't get much maintenance), and uupdate might work: I just don't tend to use it.
<persia> Plus neither of them do the rest of the hunting about to get something in good shape vs. just pushing a new upstream.  Again, this is more important when there isn't active coordination between distro and upstream maintainers.
<nxvl> persia: oh! that might be it, i always work really close with upstream
<nxvl> persia: and try to get 0 patches
<nxvl> in the packages i maintain, i mean, which are the ones that i usually update
<persia> That's the best option, if you're the maintainer.  When dealing with packages that someone else maintains that haven't been updated in a while (or even more fun, with packages with no maintainer), other bits become useful.
<persia> But that's a matter of whether one actually cares about packages, or is just trying to keep the distro relatively current and bug-free (in the latter case, one is much more likely to need to use my full list of steps)
<nxvl> yeah, well i maintain my packages in debian
<nxvl> :D
 * persia tries to avoid owning packages, but is becoming increasingly unsuccessful.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> yeah, i gived up long ago
<nxvl> :D
<dholbach> good morning
<thekorn> hey MOTUs!
<thekorn> if anyone feels like doing some packaging reviews
<thekorn> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/python-fusepy or http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/zeitgeist-filesystem
<thekorn> might be a good start of this pre-christmas week ;)
<persia> thekorn: Just a couple notes on python-fusepy: 1) some of the upstream files don't appear to have a license, 2) why choose GPL for the packaging when the code is ISC?
<thekorn> persia, thanks for looking at this package, 1.) my understanding of the packaging process is that I just package what the upstream author gives me, so if he decides to not add a license to the header of his examples, it is his decision
<thekorn> and I also thought that adding the license to debian/copyright covers the issue of missing license headers
<persia> thekorn: You are entirely correct about packaging only what upstream gives you in terms of licenses.  Where this gets tricky is that you need to be able to demonstrate not only that you have a license to distribute it to Ubuntu, but that you have a license to permit Ubuntu to distribute it to users.
<persia> And no.  Only getting upstream to release something different, or deleting stuff from the tarball addresses licensing issues.  That said, there are some fuzzy areas: it all depends on how well it's argued.
<persia> For instance, if you had some reference that demonstrated that these unlicensed example files were intended for open release, you could include that documentation, which might cover it.
<persia> But the default state of code is that it cannot be distributed without explicit permission from the author.
<thekorn> ok, so ther are tow solutions: get in contact with the author and ask him to add a license or give me explicit permission, or remove the examples from the package?
<persia> That's my opinion.
<wgrant> And it is also the generally held opinion around here, I believe.
<persia> For fairness, I'll mention that others believe that one can argue that some files can be distributed without license headers if there is a COPYING or similar file in the root directory of the package.  Since there isn't in this case, I'm not sure that argument applies.
<thekorn> ok, thanks, I think will will contact him, having a package without examples is bad
<persia> thekorn: OK.  I recommend mentioning that you're packaging it for a distribution, and need the explicit grant of redistribution rights.
<persia> Because the author is perfectly correct to distribute without explicit licensing if those files are only intended for educational purposes, and only intended for original recipients of the tarball from upstream.
<persia> Unless, of course, if the author is distributing from Honduras or Nicaragua, in which case the files do not automatically carry implicit reservation of rights, but I wouldn't want to count on that.
<persia> thekorn: What about the second question?
<thekorn> persia, honestly, I did not think about this, I used what dh_make created for me, is this an issue if the packaging license is different to the code license?
<persia> That's again a matter for debate.  I like to keep them the same as the contents of the diff.gz are typically considered the packaging, and it means that any patches added to diff.gz automatically are license-compatible with upstream.
<persia> Of course, there are others who believe that use of the GPL is more important than supporting upstream: for them, your choice is correct.
<persia> (because ISC code can be imported into GPL code, but GPL code cannot be exported to ISC)
<persia> This is complicated because some people argue that small patches are not sufficiently significant works on their own to carry a license, and so adoption regardless of license compatibility may be considered fair use in some jurisdictions.  It's also complicated because if you borrowed packaging hacks from GPL packaging, you need to preserve that, if you believe the hacks are significant enough to warrant licensing.
 * directhex kicks persia out of GNU-related groups, for suggesting that using GPL *isn't* the most important goal
<thekorn> hmm, this license stuff makes me crazy, I'm not a lawyer!
<persia> thekorn: I suspect the majority of us aren't.  That's why I tend to use the following rules
<persia> 1) Everything must be licensed to be DFSG-free (or at least Ubuntu-free).
<persia> 2) Packaging should be the same license as upstream
<persia> Following these rules means you end up having a lot of back-and-forth with upstream about licensing, and there are some restrictions about pulling patches from other's packaging for certain packages, but should protect you from any legal implications.
<persia> (of course, if you want real advice, speak to someone who is authorised to dispense advise)
<thekorn> you should this rules to a section of the packaging guide ;)
<persia> thekorn: Seems it already exists: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Copyright%20Information
<persia> At least some of that comes directly from one of my -classroom sessions, but it's been fleshed considerably since then.
<persia> Bascially, rule #1 is the first bullet in the first list, and rule #2 is interesting thing 3 about debian/copyright
<thekorn> persia, ah ok, thanks. I had a hard time reading this huge wiki page, I must have missed this section
<thekorn> another solution for my special case would be to just include the one file (fuse.py, which has a license header etc.) I need into my product (zeitgeist-filesystem) into the package
<thekorn> which should be ok license wise,
<persia> Well, it's only the examples (and memory3.py) that don't have licenses.  You'd have to modify the original tarball.
<persia> It's worth an email to upstream.  If that doesn't result in a fix soon, then removing the extra files (which aren't used for most stuff), and including something in README.Debian explaining where to download examples would work.
<thekorn> persia, ok thank you very much. I'm contacting upstream now
<persia> thekorn: Good luck.
<thekorn> thanks
 * persia is enjoying REVU.  Anyone else have a request (or shall I just pick one?)
<thekorn> persia, thanks for looking at zeitgeist-filesystem on REVU too
<persia> thekorn: Same set of issues, really :)
<thekorn> persia, with one difference: I'm upstream for zeitgeist-filesystem, so communicatin should be a bit smoother ;)
<persia> thekorn: We can hope :)
<Rhonda> I wonder, is it possible to list more than just 10 strings in the the translations part of launchpad? Given that it takes a bit to load even that it would be much more convenient to have more than just 10 on a page.  :/
<persia> There's some way to interact with .pot files.  Ask in #launchpad@freenode
<Rhonda> Yes, I saw that - somehow that would though be just a workaround. :)
<persia> There may also be a way to translate more strings at once (I'm not sure: I've not used Rosetta in years).
<Rhonda> Well, one can translate 10 strings at once through the web interface.
<dpm> Rhonda, you can hack the URL to specify a bigger batch size (i.e. more translations to be presented on a page). Let me give you an example...
<dpm> Rhonda, for example https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/evolution/+pots/evolution/ca/+translate?start=10&batch=30 -> you can specify the batch parameter to get more translations shown on the web UI - IIRC the limit is 30 or 50, though
<Rhonda> dpm: Oh, didn't know about the batch argument, cool! Usually I _do_ hack URLs where it's obvious, but I didn't know that there's such an argument. :)
<dpm> Rhonda, yes, I think they stopped showing it so that people do not overuse it. There didn't use to be a limit on the batch size either, but it was then limited for performance reasons AFAIK
<AnAnt> Hello, I am developing a software that has some files covered under GPL3+ & others under CC-BY-SA, how should I put the copyright files ?
<AnAnt> concat both licenses in the COPYING files ?
<AnAnt> btw, the question is regarding upstream software
<persia> First, check the CC and GPL sites to get some opinions on compatibility.  MY memory is that not all versions of the GPL are compatible with all versions of CC-BY-SA.
<persia> Second, you'll want to specify which files fall under which licenses in debian/copyright
<AnAnt> persia: do I have to specify which files in upstream's COPYING too ?
<persia> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html shows an example with GPL and LGPL that might give you a starting point.
<persia> No, Upstream is different.
<persia> So, Upstream should either include two license files (neither needs be named COPYING, so long as they are clearly named), or put both in COPYING with some description.
<persia> Then, in each upstream file, specify which license applies.
<AnAnt> persia: thanks
<directhex> only cc-by-sa 3.0+ is dfsg
<directhex> CC isn't GPL-compatible
<persia> directhex: I thought there was some version of CC that was compatible with some version of the GPL.  Are you sure that never got resolved?
<directhex> persia, i'm going by gnu.org, not that i trust those rabble-rousers
<persia> directhex: Hrm.  I thought I saw something, but the only mention of CC-BY-SA-3.0 on gnu.org I can find is a declaration of it's compatibility with GFDL1.3.  I see lots of negative stuff about CC-BY-SA 2.0.  I see nothing about CC-BY-SA 2.5.
<directhex> not the most comprehensive resource
<persia> No, but it provides handy guidelines.  I suppose each upstream is basically on their own when it comes to selecting from what sources they may draw.
<Quintasan|Szel> persia: hi, the rest of the vote will be on MOTU Council mailing list?
<persia> Quintasan|Szel: Yes.  So far, it's looking good.  If the others don't vote in a few days, I'll just record them as abstaining, and complete processing your application (probably near the end of the week)
<Quintasan|Szel> persia: Okay, thanks for letting me know :)
<slytherin> A bit off topic. Does anyone have a link to a howto about adding help to a GTK application?
<jbicha> slytherin: try the guides at the bottom of http://library.gnome.org/devel/guides
<slytherin> jbicha: thanks
<quadrispro> ehy guys, should I wait for an ubuntu-sru ACK before uploading to -proposed or not?
<matti> I would wait. No harm done in waiting ;p
<matti> Sit back and relax.
<matti> Have some tea ;p
<slytherin> quadrispro: You must wait.
<quadrispro> Yep, so I know the process well :)
<quadrispro> thank you
<matti> ;p
<matti> Please, don't call it "The Process" ;p
<matti> It should like my work place ;p
<matti> s/should/sounds/
<ScottK> It looks like oprofile is in serious need of a merge and doko is unlikely to get to it soon, so if someone is looking for profitable work to do ....
<hyperair> profitable?
<ScottK> hyperair: As in useful.
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> =)
<slytherin> hyperair: Have you ever successfully setup remuco-vlc in karmic?
<hyperair> never tried, really
<hyperair> ..speaking of remuco, i'm supposed to get it updated in debian!
 * hyperair facepalms
 * hyperair prepares to fire off an RFS
<slytherin> hyperair: I was able to use remuco-totem. But -vlc doesn't work.
<hyperair> i'll give it a go later
<slytherin> And I think there is some serious problems with Sony Ericsson phones. They always give me trouble with bluetooth.
<hyperair> mine's a sony ericsson s500i
<hyperair> it works wonderfully
<hyperair> both with remuco and without
<hyperair> as in, the builtin bluetooth control thing works pretty well too
<slytherin> then it is problem with my phone.
<hyperair> probably
<hyperair> i'd try with a windows machine to see whose fault it is
<slytherin> hyperair: I don't have a windows machine.
<hyperair> oh well =\
<hyperair> if your bluetooth transmitter uses usb, you could try getting virtualbox to hijack it, if you have a virtual machine with windows on it
<slytherin> hyperair: that is not an option either. My laptop has sufficient memory to run VB but it is powerpc. My PC is i386 but not sufficient memory. :-P
<hyperair> heh i see
<hyperair> ouch =p
<hyperair> does the PC have issues with bluetooth?
<hyperair> also, what kind of troubles did you have with your phone?
<slytherin> All sorts of. Pairing doesn't work reliably (pin dialog doesn't come up on PC). File transfer doesn't work etc.
<slytherin> hyperair: you are still using thirdparty sources for compiling client right?
<hyperair> slytherin: no. not at all.
<hyperair> the client was only included once oben (upstream) got rid of the need for including third party sources.
<hyperair> something about stubs
<slytherin> ok.
<slytherin> hyperair: Are you anyway familiar with the client code?
<hyperair> slytherin: not at all. but i'm educated somewhat in java. (it's the only language my formal education has covered, and one of the languages i really loath)
<slytherin> hmm. I guess I will have to take my own help. :-)
<hyperair> slytherin: you could poke the author.
<slytherin> hyperair: I want to debug why the client does not detect bluetooth capability on my wife's phone. Will check code first.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> who can I interest in running a session at the next Ubuntu Developer Week? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep still has a couple of empty slots :)
<EzraR> how long does it take a package to get into testing from unstable
<maco> 10 days i think
<EzraR> if a package was added to testing a couple days ago will it be in testing in time to get added to lucid?
<EzraR> oh nice
<EzraR> thats not long
<EzraR> if said package fixes a bug can it get upgraded in karmic (not backports)
<EzraR> a bug that makes the package not work by default
<EzraR> would that be a SRU?
<cjwatson> EzraR: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates; if the package is just plain non-functional, then yes the fix may be eligible for a stable update
<cjwatson> EzraR: 10 days> but this depends on other things, 10 days is just the normal minimum
<EzraR> ok so once it hits lucid put a SRU request
<EzraR> thnx
<joaopinto> will python2.5 be removed on Lucid ?
<ScottK> I would imagine so, but it's up to doko.
<randomaction> Any idea what's happening here? Package was apparently synced twice (bug 402089, bug 484679), but is still at older version.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 402089 in fox1.6 "Please sync fox1.6 1.6.25-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402089
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484679 in fox1.6 "Please sync fox1.6 1.6.36-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484679
<geser> randomaction: interesting, usually the AA sync script complains when the switch to overwrite the ubuntu delta got forgotten
<randomaction> I think I'll reset one of these bugs to Confirmed and ask AAs to look once again.
<ScottK> randomaction: Is it a v3 source package in Debian?
<randomaction> it's not afaict (no debian/source/format)
<geser> randomaction: you could try if slangasek or james_w have time to look at it as this seems to be special
<geser> ScottK: the first sync which failed is from July
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> md5sum mismatch?
<joaopinto> hi
<ajmitch> different upstream version
<joaopinto> is there any utility that lists conflicting packages from a repository ? I mean doing a recursive analisys
<randomaction> yep, second sync is for newer upstream
<persia> kees: I was trying to make mk-sbuild-lv work on ports architectures, and I wondered if there was a difference between -updates and -security on security.ubuntu.com (there is a vast difference on ports.ubuntu.com)
<joaopinto> hum, any idea how apt install recommends deals with conflicts ? If a package is recommended but conflicts with an installed package is it simply not installed ?
<StevenK> persia: It has just worked for me before?
<geser> joaopinto: try it out in a pbulder?
<persia> StevenK: Then you were 1) defining an lpia chroot, and 2) using security.ubuntu.com ${RELEASE}-updates for security (if you enabled security)
<joaopinto> geser, I would need to find a conflict case :P
<persia> StevenK: Or at least it failed completely to work for me with powerpc and armel (until I changed some stuff).
<StevenK> persia: I was undoubtedly doing both of those
<persia> There was a bunch of special-case code to make lpia chroots work on i386 or amd64 machines.  I'm not sure they would have worked for a native lpia schroot.
<slangasek> randomaction, geser: the fox1.6 sync failure isn't due to the missing 'force' switch, it's because the source package in Debian is broken and has no sourceful Section field
<slangasek> (this only gets detected when trying to flush the syncs to the archive, so is easily overlooked)
<slangasek> randomaction, geser: documented now in bug #484679
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 484679 in fox1.6 "Please sync fox1.6 1.6.36-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484679
<geser> slangasek: thanks for looking at it
<randomaction> slangasek: thanks for looking
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-15
<dholbach> good morning
<machina> I have a question about packaging a new revision. Are you always supposed to put the latest development environment in the changelog even if you want the revision to be considered for SRU?
<maco> it has to go to the latest devel first
<maco> but you want to make 2 debdiffs. one for each
<persia> Well, the *fix* needs to go to the latest development environment first.
<persia> The revision needs to be targeted to a specific environment.
<persia> (and sometimes, especially when backporting upstream fixes, there is no special upload for the fix to the development release)
<maco> persia: er....whats the difference with what i said?
<maco> except that i didnt say the part about "devel might not need a special upload" like you did
<persia> maco: Precisely the same except I used lots more words :)
<maco> of course you did. you're persia.
<maco> you have the most flowery speech of anyone i've ever met
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SRU
<machina> ah ok thanks!
<machina> I'm following the page here on packaging a new revision, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, and running debuild -S fails
<machina> the last line in the output is this, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S failed
<persia> Could you pastebin a larger chunk of your output (maybe all of it)?
<machina> sure one sec
<machina> http://pastebin.com/daf89cae
<persia> "debian/control has a duplicate entry for xsensors" is probably the core error.
<persia> By my reading, the clean: rule contains dh_testdir which is failing because of issues parsing debian/control.
<machina> ha you're right
<persia> And that failure stops processing of the clean rule, which stops processing of the build.
<machina> turns out there were two repeated paragraphs in the control file, thanks persia
<machina> hi, I created a debdiff for a new revision that should close Bug #183330 and Bug #73405 , should I just go ahead and post it as a patch to the bug reports?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 183330 in xsensors "xsensors lacks support for coretemp module" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183330
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 73405 in xsensors "xsensors displays nothing and then crashes when closed." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/73405
<persia> machina: Just check to make sure the debdiff works cleanly and solves the issue (as described on the wiki page you've been following), and subscribe the sponsors.
<machina> persia: will do
<bee> i can't get my motorola device get working on ubuntu 9.10. what should i do?
<bee> anyone here?
<maco> this isnt a support channel, but i know you've been asking in #ubuntu for a while. since thats not working, i think google's all i can suggest :-/
<bee> i can't get some peripherals working on ubuntu
<maco> oh oh wait
<maco> ubuntuforums.org
<maco> because the forums dont require that people be online at the same time as you
<directhex> what kind of motorola device, though?
<maco> directhex: person quit
<directhex> oh. poot
<azeem> es
<azeem> ECHAN
<Whoopie> jdong: Hi, how can we proceed with bug #481448?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481448 in vlc "VLC lacks build-dep on libupnp3-dev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481448
<wrapster> just a doubt.. apt-get upgrade will upgrade only the already installed pkgs to a higer version right
<joaopinto> wrapster, right
<persia> Well, not precisely.
<persia> If the dependencies of a package change between versions, and that package is upgraded, new packages may be installed, and depending on your apt configuration, old packages may be removed.
<joaopinto> persia, is dist-upgrade required for that ?
<joaopinto> isn't that the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade ?
<persia> No.
<joaopinto> hum, so what's the difference ?
<persia> dist-upgrade considers the set of changes differently.
<joaopinto> I remember usually getting "package kept" when a package pulls a new package
<persia> For a real answer, you'd do best to check the docs, but my understanding is that when you do dist-upgrade, it's more forgiving about removing stuff that other stuff depends upon if that other stuff is also being upgraded and the upgraded version depends on something different.
<persia> Whereas an upgrade will happily install new stuff (as long as it doesn't conflict with other stuff) or, depending on apt config, remove stuff that nothing depends upon anymore.
<joaopinto> persia, from man apt-get
<joaopinto> upgrade
<joaopinto> under no
<joaopinto>            circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages
<joaopinto>            not already installed retrieved and installed.
<joaopinto> I believe you are wrong
<persia> Well, either I'm wrong or the manpage is wrong.
<persia> But I was sure that I'd seen the install-extra-dependencies behaviour with just an upgrade.
<joaopinto> I believe you are wrong, because when I need to get a new kernel, which is a new package set as dependency from the kernel metapackage, I need to dist-upgrade
<persia> Hrm.  Then I'm probably wrong.  I usually use aptitude, which has slightly different semantics and I must be confused.
<persia> Thanks for the correction.
<joaopinto> :)
<_ruben> iirc, aptitude safe-upgrade matches apt-get upgrade .. and aptitude upgrade matches apt-get dist-upgrade .. then again, i never use(d) aptitude :)
<persia> _ruben: Well, not quite.
<persia> If the man pages are entirely accurage, `aptitude --no-new-installs safe-upgrade` matches `apt-get upgrade`.
<_ruben> persia: ah ok .. could be something "new" as well .. my previous line was based on comments i picked up ages ago .. and i might even have misinterpreted those, hence the "iirc" ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> Well, I could still be wrong  :)
<c_korn> will there be apt2 in lucid? http://juliank.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/apt2-progress-report-for-the-1st-half-of-december/
<dholbach> any requests for sessions at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep  or sessions you'd like to give there?
<dholbach> I guess I could wait until after the net split and ask again :-)
<dholbach> any requests for sessions at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep  or sessions you'd like to give there?
<EzraR_> maybe something about working with debian?
<highvoltage> http://thechive.com/2009/12/15/daily-morning-randomness-25-photos-14
<bjsnider> is mario limonciello in here?
<pochu> superm1: ^
<superm1> what's up bjsnider ?
<bjsnider> well, i was looking at some of the changes you made to the nvidia package in your ppa
<bjsnider> and then i was looking at upstream debian
<bjsnider> and i wondered which direction this is going to take
<bjsnider> debian has created an nvidia-libvdpau-driver package, while you have put the driver into the glx package
<bjsnider> same with cuda
<bjsnider> i can't for the life of me figure out why debian wants to create separate packages for those two things
<superm1> bjsnider, so actually tseliot is going to be driving the changes for ubuntu, and when me and him last talked we're leaning on everything in an nvidia-XYZ package
<superm1> glx, vdpau (aside from the stuff in libvdpau), and kernel source
<superm1> it makes no sense to decouple them
<superm1> and long term trying to push debian to do the same
<superm1> the stuff in my PPA is just for karmic so people have a way to use vdpau with myth and nvidia-190, i wouldn't treat it as the long term way of doing things
<bjsnider> but that is how you're doing things in your ppa
<superm1> well it's still broken up with kernel source as it's own package
<superm1> in my PPA
<bjsnider> so you're planning to put the kernel-source files back into the glx package?
<superm1> yeah i think that's the best way to go
<superm1> and the glx package wont be called nvidia-glx-XYZ, it will be nvidia-XYZ
<superm1> so if people want to switch between free<->nonfree, it's literally just one package to add or remove then, and the conflicts/replaces hopefully wont get messed up
<bjsnider> that's amillion miles from upstream debian (right now anyway)
<superm1> yeah, so it's gonna be a long term goal to push them in this direction
<bjsnider> they're also creating an 1a32 package int he control file
<superm1> unless you are closer with them, and you can help maybe?
<bjsnider> ia32 i mean
<bjsnider> no, i'm not close with them or anything but i don't want all of the stuff in my ppa to be very far away from what's un ubuntu, or it could cause upgrade issues in the future
<superm1> right
<bjsnider> i think it's fairly safe to just use what you're doing in the ppa
<superm1> well tie off with tseliot next time he's online
<superm1> in #ubuntu-x usually
<superm1> he's the one driving most of these changes
<bjsnider> i don't want to have anything to do with all of that stuff they're doing upstream
<superm1> we dont really treat debian as an upstream for this package currently
<superm1> other than the fact that it was pulled from there once for a basis
<bjsnider> well, someone should tell them that
<superm1> bjsnider, well hopefully some day we'll all be back on the same page again
<bjsnider> it's funny that you're talking about using the version number instead of -glx
<superm1> but remember they have different goals and schedules, so sometimes it will take time for that to happen
<bjsnider> because they're using -glx and not the version number
<bjsnider> i don't think scheduling has anything to do witht his particular issue though
<bjsnider> i have no idea what their golas might be
<bjsnider> goals i mean
<superm1> we're in sync for libvdpau the library at least though
<superm1> as soon as launchpad can sync a V3 source package, we'll be pulling in their's
<bjsnider> i'm going to do that right now, but they added a dependency on their nvidia-libvdpau-driver virtual package, which you'll have to remove
<bjsnider> you're not creating it
<superm1> bjsnider, i thought they dropped that http://packages.debian.org/sid/libvdpau1
<superm1> it's a suggests
<bjsnider> oh right. i was reading it wrong
<superm1> yeah i raised a bug complaining about that in their first iteration
<ari-tczew> what's doing autoconf patch in any package?
<joaopinto> hum, any eclipse maintainer around ?
<bjsnider> superm1, ping
<superm1> bjsnider, pong
<bjsnider> with the .53 driver, nvidia has moved its vdpau driver to /usr/lib/vdpau. is it ok to leave it there in the installation or should i move it or link it to something in /usr/lib?
<superm1> that's where it should be
<superm1> the libvdpau in ubuntu and debian expect it there
<bjsnider> great. that means i can actually subtract some lines from the rules file
<superm1> that rules file is hardcoding Way too much
<superm1> it needs to evaluate more of this stuff dynamically
<superm1> even if that means using stuff like debian/install.in and building a debian/install
<bjsnider> well, it seems like it doesn't need the version numbers anywhere
<superm1> but because it's calling out all the stuff to be installed explicitly like that, it's really hard to update when new releases come out
<bjsnider> yes i know
<bjsnider> it's a pain
<bjsnider> and all of the other files too
<bjsnider> why can't we just use all of the .in files?
<superm1> take a look at how fglrx is done nowadays
<superm1> its much much cleaner
<superm1> i'd like to see our nvidia package looking that good
<bjsnider> in karmic? in lucid? in a ppa? where is it?
<superm1> karmic and lucid have it
<superm1> apt-get source fglrx-installer
<lamont> so... where is this REVU thing and how can I fetch source from someones upload to same?
<dtchen> lamont: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ , pull-revu-source(1) in ubuntu-dev-tools
<lamont> ta
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-16
<machina> hey i'm attempting to package xsensors 0.60 for debian and I noticed that the author of the upstream source package had run ./configure
<machina> is it all right if i run "make distclean"
<machina> and I guess that would be a patch as well from the original version?
<machina> http://linuxhardware.org/xsensors/
<machina> actually nvm, I know what to do know
<machina> *now
<LucidFox> Nafallo, when you return, I'd like to offer some suggestions about the gajim package.
<rhpot1991> not the right place to ask this, but is there an irc channel for community wiki support?
<contrast> Greets, everyone...
<contrast> Could someone point me in the direction of information on building packages for stuff that doesn't need to be compiled (e.g., wallpapers, scripts, etc.)?
<fabrice_sp> contrast, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling
<contrast> fabrice_sp: Gorgeous, thanks. I [foolishly] assumed the terms would be too generic to search for. Much appreciated. :)
 * David-T wonders whats so difficult about trying a search first...
<dholbach> good morning
<l00nr> Hello MOTUs! I want to get involved in Ubuntu Packaging and have a question regarding version numbers for release candidates of upstream versions
<l00nr> can someone help me on this?
<persia> l00nr: Lots of people can help, but they'll find it easier if you ask a specific question :)
<dholbach> l00nr: best just ask :)
<l00nr> ok. i want to help packaging "opensc". there's a tar.gz opensc-0.11.12-rc1...
<l00nr> with an old .diff  as the base i now can "debuild" packages
<l00nr> what do i have to write in changelog to make it "right"
<l00nr> opensc-0.11.12~rc1~0ubuntu1 was my first guess
<persia> The version string in the changelog doesn't need the package name, so first start with the upstream value.
<l00nr> is that correct?
<persia> Not quite.
<persia> You probably want 0.11.12~rc1-0ubuntu1
<persia> Or 0.11.12~rc1-0ubuntu0+tryX where X is an increasing series until you get something ready for distribution.
<persia> The difference is that you *do* want to use a hyphen to separate the version from the revision.
<persia> Although I think you've made the right choice to replace upstream's hyphen with a tilde, as this allows later release of opensc-0.11.12-0ubuntu1
<persia> That said, I think I saw some opensc packaging in the past.  There may be something you can use as a base.
<l00nr> yes, it's my plan to get this clean and not to interfere with final releases.
<l00nr> I've already contact to a member of the opensc-project who has already done packaging in the past. I want to help on that.
<persia> Ah, yeah, that's only at 0.11.9.  I see.
<persia> If you're specifically interested primarily in working with opensc, I'd recommend you contact the Debian opensc maintainer(s).
<persia> Just because you'll want to understand what they've been doing for the past few years, and keep aligned to that
<l00nr> 0.11.5 to < 0.11.12 have a problem (a bug fix) which makes it impossible for us to use it. 0.11.12 fixes this.
<l00nr> no... not fixes it: workaround it...
<persia> Well, that's going to be hard to backport.
<persia> If you can extract the patch specifically, fixing the 0.11.8 in karmic might be interesting.
<persia> But getting both lucid and squeeze up to 0.11.12 sounds like the right solution.
<persia> Some information about the state in Debian is available at http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/opensc.html
<persia> And it may be worth following up on Debian bug #552516 to indicate that 0.11.11 isn't ideal for various reasons, and it's worth moving directly to 0.11.12.
<ubottu> Debian bug 552516 in opensc "New OpenSC Version available -- please change package description" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/552516
<l00nr> if the new version is contained in lucid we would be happy. no need (for us) to backport to karmic
<l00nr> ok. i will have a look at this bug and contact the debian maintainer. thank you for the help.
<persia> l00nr: That said, if you've wider interests, or want to work on other stuff, we're here to help :)  I just think that's the best strategy for the specific issue you mentioned.
<l00nr> persia: i'm sure i'll have more questions in the future as we are starting to use ubuntu on our enterprise desktops... :-)
<persia> Excellent :)
<ari-tczew> debuild on lucid creates packages by *.debian.tar.gz, how can I use debuild if I except *.orig.tar.gz ?
<ari-tczew> ppa reply: format '3.0 (quilt)' is not permitted in lucid.
<persia> ari-tczew: Could you restate that question more verbosely?
<ari-tczew> ok, so I'm working on merges and today I can't get source package by debuild -S, ppa doesn't accept my package because: format '3.0 (quilt)' is not permitted in lucid
<persia> ari-tczew: Ah.  I hear that format: 3.0 support is coming soon.  Potentially in the next week or so.
<ari-tczew> persia, ok thanks, but I need do build test of package, how can I test it using pbuilder?
<persia> I'm not familiar with pbuilder.
<persia> I'd presume you could just use pdebuild.
<ari-tczew> ok
<geser> ari-tczew: if you have a pbuilder setup: "pbuilder build your_merge.dsc"
<ari-tczew> geser, ok I'll try to use your propose, but I sent "debuild -us -uc" before your answer, I must  wait
<ari-tczew> how can I change mirrors which using pbuilder? I got E: Failed to fetch http://pl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glib2.0/libglib2.0-0_2.22.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb: 404  Not Found
<geser> did you run "pbuilder update"?
<ari-tczew> no, I didn't
<geser> your pbuilder is probably using old Packages files therefore this error
<hyperair> ari-tczew: to change your mirror, you have to do pbuilder --update --mirror "http://newmirror/ubuntu" --override-config
<hyperair> but yeah, updating your pbuilder should fix the issue
<ari-tczew> ok, I'll try these commands
<ari-tczew> it works! thanks devs!
 * Laney nibbles
<Laney> afternoon
<persia> Does anyone happen to know which architectures end up getting ddebs on ddebs.ubuntu.com?
<slytherin> persia: As far as I know only i386/amd64
<superm1> the Release file says otherwise: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/dists/lucid/Release
<persia> slytherin: OK.  There are Release files for other architectures though, but I don't see the associated ddebs (and get 404 errors trying to install them)
<persia> superm1: Yeah, but the files aren't there (e.g. http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/b/binutils/ )
<persia> I was thinking they might end up somewhere else (something like archive.u.c vs. ports.u.c)
<superm1> persia, bug pitti to double check i'd say
<superm1> although launchpad is supposed to grow proper support for them $SOON I thought
<persia> with $SOON defined, in part, by how many people jump up and code the support?
<superm1> i thought there was already work going in on it
<persia> Well, I'll let it wait a bit.  -devel backscroll says pitti isn't around today.
<persia> I suspect there is.  I'm just never confident about LP features until they show up on edge.
<persia> After that, they usually drop into production in a month or two unless they get a lot of contention.
<bjsnider> siretart, what's the deal on the ffmpeg issues. i've followed the "upgrade trouble" thread with you and niedermayer, but i have no idea what you two are talking about
<norax_> hi. Is there a similar webpage for lucid of http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html ?
<ScottK> norax_: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ is the actual state of the archive for Lucid.
<m4rtin> evening all; I submitted a patch for sponsorship review (regression fix) over a month ago and haven't heard anything. Any ideas? (it's in bash-completion)
<c_korn> I used quilt shell in a chroot to make some changes. now how do I get the patch ? do I have to `exit 0` or will this just end the chroot ?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Could someone else have a look at fceux in Revu (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fceux)? it's a nes emulator, and the evolution of fceu
<randomaction> c_korn: just exit
<c_korn> randomaction: I tried Ctrl+D and it worked. I think exit would have worked, too. thanks
<norax_> Thanks, ScottK
<Quintasan> hiho
<siretart> bjsnider: well, have you tried installing libavutil50 and dependencies from e.g. the openshot PPA and wondered why vlc and almost all other ffmpeg using packages get instantly broken by that?
<bjsnider> siretart, i'm subscribed to the tiresome bug report for it
<siretart> bjsnider: that's the problem. currently the libavutil50 package would need to add a Conflicts: libavutil49 in order to prevent the situation
<siretart> bjsnider: unfortunately, I fail to contact the ppa maintainer, intuitivenipple for that
<siretart> still, many user just install those packages and happily break their systems
<siretart> the symbol versioning I've proposed would prevent that problem
<bjsnider> siretart, no, i wasn't asking about the nature of the problem as much as a rough ETA on a solution, if you have one
<bjsnider> i understood from the last message in the thread that you were implementing a solution
<siretart> bjsnider: it takes me finding some hours of spare time to create a patch, plus the reviewing and integration time for ffmpeg upstream. I'd guess a couple of weeks
<bjsnider> i see
<bjsnider> you can't disable the openshot ppa in the meantime, especially if the owner is incommunicado?
<siretart> I can, many angry bug reporters obviously fail to diagnose the problem
<siretart> and I cannot ask the launchpad admins either to have his ppa removed
<bjsnider> why not?
<siretart> on what grounds? we have never supported 3rd party sources exactly for these reasons
<bjsnider> on the grounds that he is unaware of the problem, cannot or will not warn people about it and will not or cannot change things
<siretart> feel free to do so
<siretart> still, simply not using his packages and trying to contact him seem better options to me, but obviously, YMMV.
<bjsnider> you already know about the issue though
<siretart> you do so as well, now.
<siretart> I prefer spending my time with fixing packages rather than hunting broken ones from others
<bjsnider> what's the bug number for the broken mplayer issue?
<siretart> bjsnider: you said you where already subscribed to that bug
<bjsnider> i think i deleted the messages
<bjsnider> they had nothing to do with my ppa and i couldn't say anything more than you did to help anybody
<bjsnider> i don't understand how it happened. i didn't subscribe myself. i just all of a sudden started getting emails from launchpad about it
<bjsnider> 461966
<Whoopie> siretart: Hi, if you have time, could you have a look at bug 392115? I attached a debdiff to enable DV support.
<fabrice_sp> Hey RainCT ! Could you please add me to Revu as reviewer?
<RainCT> fabrice_sp: done :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-17
<apachelogger> persia: ahoy, now that nixternal did a +1 on Quintasan's application I suppose quorum is reached and Quintasan can be confirmed to be motu?
<persia> apachelogger: I'll probably do that today.  I was just kinda hoping that the others would chime in, but they failed to respond to requests.
<persia> apachelogger: Is there some urgency that means it should be done *now*, or would in a few hours be just as good?
<ScottK> dktrkranz: When you merge csound, please be sure to bump the boost build deps (we're aiming for 1.40)
<ScottK> bddebian: Does mapnik build with boost1.40 on Debian?
<bddebian> ScottK: Haven't tried, would you like me to?
<ScottK> bddebian: Yes.  Please.
<bddebian> pbuilding...
<ScottK> Thanks.
<LucidFox> Can an orig.tar.gz include free TTF fonts?
<bddebian> Shouldn't
 * LucidFox nods
<ScottK> LucidFox: As long as you use the system fonts and they are appropriately licensed, it's no problem.
<ScottK> (i.e. don't use the code copies shipped in the tarball in your build)
<bddebian> ScottK: Getting some warnings about deprecated headers but so far it's going
<ScottK> bddebian: I got to /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_python-mt
<bddebian> ScottK: Yep, it built
<bddebian> Hmm, strange
<ScottK> Any suggestions how I might figure that out?
<bddebian> ScottK: I assume that lib does exist?
 * ScottK goes to inspect the .deb
<bddebian> Is it pulling in libboost-python-dev?
<ScottK> Yes and yes.
<bddebian> Very odd
<ScottK> Maybe ajmitch knows since he's officially our boost-python expert now.
<bddebian> w00t :)
<ScottK> (He fixed a bug in it, so that makes him the expert.
<ScottK> )
<bddebian> WFM :)
<dtchen> does anyone have access to an armel porter?
<dtchen> I'm getting a slew of FTBFS that I can't easily test :(
<ScottK> There's a armel PPA that Canonical devs have access to.
<ScottK> Other than that, I think you need ogra_ or NCommander.
<fabrice_sp> bigon,  why do you need sponsorship on bug 427542: you're a motu, right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427542 in libhildon "Merge libhildon 2.1.34.debian.1-6 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427542
<dtchen> fabrice_sp: his membership in MOTU is active, at least
<dtchen> so, yes
<fabrice_sp> dtchen, that's what I thought: as this package was in main some releasea ago, I think he got 'distracted' :-)
<fabrice_sp> thanks  to confirm ;-)
<siretart`> Whoopie: IIRC we disabled dv support because vlc needed porting to the new API, or there was some general breakage with dv support. Have you tested that dv actually works?
<siretart`> Whoopie: in any case, I've pointed xtophe to your patch, he takes a look and will probably apply it for the 1.0.4-1 upload
<dtchen> mm, I can ditch the "nvidia" driver completely, because "nv" works great in Lucid
<bjsnider> dtchen, is that a joke?
<dtchen> absolutely not
<dtchen> granted, I don't use anything requiring libGL.so.1, so my particular case is limited
<bjsnider> the nv driver is there to provide basic mode-setting so you don't see a black screen the first time you boot linux
<bjsnider> it's a transitional driver
<bjsnider> nouveau and nvidia are much better
<dtchen> I don't much care, frankly; if nv gives me x-terminal-emulators, I'm golden
<maco2> who needs compositing?
<maco2> dtchen: wait why dont you just use screen in a tty? it can do tiling
<dtchen> I do use tmux/screen.
<bjsnider> maco, human beings walking around on this earth
<bjsnider> but i never mentioned compositing
<maco2> well thats the point of using nvidia instead of nv, isnt it? because nv is 2D-only. i kinda though nouveau was still rather experimental though
<maco2> *thought
<bjsnider> nv has no xv or vdpau
<bjsnider> font rendering is probably a mess
<bjsnider> no power management. no support for xrandr 1.2
<bjsnider> not much of anything
<bjsnider> of course the blob doesn't support xrandr 1.2 yet either
<bjsnider> but nouveau does
<bjsnider> nouveau works great, but possibly not in lucid yet
<dtchen> font rendering is fine
<dtchen> I used nv for about nine hours without realizing it
<bjsnider> dtchen, you don't use your rig for anything interesting? it's all just coding shell scripts in gedit?
<dtchen> gedit's a bit too fancy for my lazy self
<bjsnider> why not just boot to a back screen then...
<dtchen> I do.
<bjsnider> just you know, install the kernel by itself
<Quintasan> hi
<maco2> bjsnider: because sometimes he uses firefox instead of lynx
<dtchen> geez, the point is that I can finally kill off the last non-Free driver
<maco2> you could've just gotten intel graphics and not had to worry about it :P
<bjsnider> nouveau is foss
<maco2> yes, his point is he can ditch the binary nvidia driver
<bjsnider> but he's not using the best foss driver
<maco2> he doesnt care which alternative to go to, it just so happens that nv is on his system and works, so he's going with it
<bjsnider> was my point
<maco2> if it works, does it matter?
<dtchen> I'm sure there are more optimal methods, but I can't be arsed; I'd rather fix this pot of audio bugs.
<maco2> hmm though now you've got me wondering... is there a curses calendar app i could use with mutt to ditch kontact?
<dholbach> good morning
<persia> dtchen: I've got an armel jaunty box (haven't been able to upgrade yet).  Is there something I could test with that?
<RAOF> bjsnider: If things go well, nouveau will be the default for lucid, so daniel will be using it instead of nv :)
<bigon> fabrice_sp: right the pkg was previously in main, my bad
<paultag> o/ MOTU, I have a question about the process of importing from debian
<persia> paultag: ask it :)
<paultag> do we use the dsc and modify the control / changelog and use that, or do we take the upstream tgz and recreate the debian folder
<paultag> persia, sheesh, I was working on it :P
<persia> paultag: Sorry.  We get lots of folk who ask to ask and need prompting.
<paultag> persia, I know that deal ;)
<m4rtin> hi all; I submitted a patch for sponsorship review (regression fix) over a month ago and haven't heard anything. Any ideas; core team v. busy? (it's in bash-completion)
<persia> m4rtin: Which is the bug number?
 * persia can't help get it merged, but may be able to help check process compliance
<m4rtin> #449349
<persia> bug #449349
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449349 in bash-completion "regression for completing remote files/dirs over ssh" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449349
<persia> m4rtin: So, is broken in lucid as well as karmic?
<m4rtin> persia: I would assume so... it was broken *in* Karmic, so I wrote a fix which someone then suggested I try to get into lucid
<m4rtin> It was owing to a bash version upgrade and the bash_completion script being incompatible
<persia> m4rtin: So, basically you just want someone to upload the debdiff in comment #45 ?
<persia> (and then maybe you'll look at karmic, but that's process stuff for later)
<m4rtin> persia: #25 I believe... as for Karmic, I was lead to believe that this would not be ported back as an update...? Is that incorrect? I've been using the fix on my Karmic systems with no problems...
<persia> m4rtin: #25, riht.  Sorry.  Dunno how I imagined the extra 20 comments.
<persia> It looks to me like you've done everything correctly, and are just stuck waiting for a sponsor.
<m4rtin> persia: yeah, I thought so - I'll just sit tight
<m4rtin> (my first patch, so I didn't know what to expect)
<persia> m4rtin: Yeah.  Sometimes it's slow.  Sorry about that.
<m4rtin> it also fixes another very irritating issue in the same package that has existed since 8.10 - ssh completion puts far too many \ characters in to escape spaces and thereby makes it useless for completing more than 1 directory - it's all in the changelog though :)
<persia> m4rtin: On the bright side, it looks like it got confirmed as a regression by the update verification team, which means that it's probably getting a bit more visibility than it would otherwise
<persia> (but that was a couple weeks ago)
<m4rtin> persia: yeah, I saw that; guess they were busy with featuredefinitionfreeze recently, but hey, at some point they'll see it I'm sure
<persia> We can certainly hope.
<Whoopie> siretart: yes, the DV plugin works under karmic, I don't have a lucid installation.
<Whoopie> siretart: I added vlc 1.0.3 to my PPA and enabled DV support for testing.
<siretart`> Whoopie: I'd say then feel free to upload the change to lucid :-)
<siretart`> Whoopie: or even better, let's discuss this on #debian-multimedia@oftc.net and get this change into debian proper
<Whoopie> siretart`: I can't upload anything.
<maxb> wiki/SponsorshipProcess doesn't say much about what needs to appear in a merge-sponsorship-request bug. Should I be describing the changes, or should I assume that the sponsor will prefer to read the diff and debian/changelog anyway, so a brief "please merge this" is ok?
<persia> I like to get a quick description of the patch.
<persia> Something like "Here's something that addresses ${issue} for ${release}
<persia> Just to have some idea what I'm looking at.
<persia> Yes, the sponsor will be reading the diff and changelog, but a little advance hint never hurts :)
<persia> maxb: Actually, in the specific case of merges, some people like more.
<persia> For instance, some people like to have the imported Debian/changelog entries summarised in the bug (the ones coming from Debian).
<persia> This is less important before Debian Import Freeze, and it would be nice to merge everything.
<persia> But after that it becomes more important, as it lets the sponsor make a more informed decision as to whether it's worth digging into the details
<siretart`> Whoopie: okay, I'll remember that when uploading to and merging from debian
<persia> maxb: The only relevant thing I find in the wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FHowToMerge#File%20a%20merge%20bug
<persia> Which doesn't seem to ask for that much info.  I personally tend to file as much info as I would for a sync, but it may not matter.
<maxb> ok, thanks for the info :-)
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys is merges.ubuntu.com been updated regularly?
<slytherin> RoAkSoAx: It should be. What is the problem?
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, some debian package versions are still not updated in the universe list even though the debian package has been in testing for quite a few days
<slytherin> RoAkSoAx: any example?
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, apgdiff (its been in testing for 4 days :) ) Or, how much does it take to update the list?
<slytherin> RoAkSoAx: As far as I knew it used to be updated daily. May be that has changed recently.
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, prolly its is because they want us to change to distributed development or because the new debian source format
<RoAkSoAx> s/prolly/probably :)
<slytherin> AFAIK, MoM has support for new source format.
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, yeah but they were doing some tests this past few days in building the packages to see if they can change or not since I think some packages were FTBFS
<slytherin> RoAkSoAx: Was that related to MoM or Launchpad?
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, Launchpad
<persia> Launchpad still needs a bit of work in order to support uploads of the new format, but I'm not certain this is related to MoM
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, do you know who maintains those lists?
<slytherin> nope
<slytherin> persia: AFAIK, source format 3.0 landed in edge.launchpad.net
<persia> slytherin: I heard it was disabled pending some software upgrades.
<persia> (that was from #launchpad sometime in the last 12 hours)
<slytherin> Ok. Then you have latest info. I was only tracking the bug.
<Laney> launchpad but not the buildds, afaik
<slytherin> If a library has some part sunder this license it is free enough to be included in archives - Smack contains icons and images licensed from INCORS GmbH. You are not licensed to use these icons outside of Smack.
<persia> Erm.
<persia> I'd say that belongs in multiverse, personally.
<Whoopie> jdong: Hi, sorry for prodding but how do we continue with bug 481448?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481448 in vlc "VLC lacks build-dep on libupnp3-dev" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481448
<Whoopie> jdong: I just need someone to upload the package.
<slytherin> persia: the icons will be included in jar file and not be available separately.
<persia> slytherin: Right, but I don't think it's DFSG free.
<slytherin> that is bad then. :-( I will ask on Debian lists.
<persia> I don't think that icons packaged that way meet the requirements for #3 and #6 at http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
<persia> Yeah, ask Debian.  I'm probably extra picky :)
<slytherin> Whoopie: You should bug RainCT about that.
<slytherin> persia: And what if the library which includes the icons is not being packaged at all? I mean there are 3 jars in the package and only one contains these icons. I am not planning to ship this jar in any binary package.
<Laney> I'd repack to remove it then
<persia> slytherin: I don't think it matters: the *source* needs to be DFSG free (well UFSG, which is basically DFSG + a couple specific exceptions)
<persia> Because the source is *also* being distributed.
<persia> But send a note to debian-legal explaining the details and your plans, and see what they say.
<slytherin> Ok. Then repacking makes sense. That way source becomes DFSG free and binary has no problems.
<persia> That also works :)
<slytherin> by the way looking at quality of icons I am wondering why they are bothering with shipping them at all.
<persia> heh :)
<mterry> persia, I was looking at the link at the top of REVU to the diff file: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/netbook-launcher-efl-0912171333/netbook-launcher-efl_0.2.0.0-0ubuntu1.diff
<Rhonda> Oh, CoC 1.1 finally arrived. :)
<persia> You're looking at an old revision: see http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/netbook-launcher-efl-0912171439/netbook-launcher-efl_0.2.0.0-0ubuntu1.diff
<Rhonda> ... but somehow the release date can't be proper, 2005-04-12. :D
<persia> heh, no.
<mterry> persia, Huh.  Yeah, I went to the main REVU page and landed on the new page.  I guess I didn't realize I could get stuck on an old revision
<Laney> Rhonda: That's because the old CoC is considered to be compatible with this one
<Laney> (so as not tp
<Laney> to expire old signatures)
<persia> mterry: Each revision is separately available for detailed review :)
<Rhonda> Laney: Erm.  "The current version is 1.1, released 2005-04-12"
<persia> Laney: Except the content changed: how are we to know if we agree with the current version?
 * persia does, but is curious about the abstract
<mterry> persia, still can't upload, as eina and friends aren't updated in lucid.  Well, I could push, but it would be dependency wait.
<Rhonda> Laney: I have no clue what you refer to so that old signatures don't expire, but that sounds pretty fishy.
<Laney> Rhonda, persia: Yeah, I'm just the messenger
<persia> mterry: Your call, rally.
<mterry> persia, they did that to not invalidate old signatures, under the theory that the changes were not substantive
<persia> Laney: Understood.  We just kinda hoped you had a larger message :)
<Laney> Rhonda: So if people agreed to the older version then LP considers that they agree to 1.1
<persia> Um, the changes are substantive enough that we've an *active* developer (Rhonda) who has been waiting for them for almost two years.
<Rhonda> Laney: And that for the page has to lie about the release date of the 1.1 version?
<Laney> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/479870/comments/3
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 479870 in launchpad-registry "Need to support Ubuntu CoC 1.1" [Low,Fix released]
<Laney> Rhonda: That's because LP compares the date released to the date signed to see which versions of the CoC you have agreed to
<persia> Oh, so it's an implementation trick.
<Laney> ...so they couldn't update the date released without expiring all old sigs
<Laney> yes
<persia> Well, they *could*, but it would require coding changes, etc.
<Whoopie> slytherin: where can I find him/her?
<Laney> right
<persia> (which is more delay)
<Laney> they couldn't *as it stands now*
<persia> Right.
<slytherin> Whoopie: him, right here, have patience.
<Whoopie> slytherin: ok, thanks
<Rhonda> Laney: A wording change would be appropriate then. This is just confusing as it stands now. :(
<Laney> Rhonda: I agree. Perhaps you could file an LP bug?
<Rhonda> Yes, am already wondering wether launchpad-registry is the proper target? :)
<Rhonda> ... actually, was just about to ask exactly that. :)
<Laney> a) Fix the "date released" thing. b) Fix the semantics of signing previous versions â just need to make it clear that signing old versions is still acceptable for being an Ubuntu member, etc
<Laney> Rhonda: Not sure, I'd just file to Launchpad and let it be triaged
<Laney> or you could ask in #launchpad
<mterry> persia, my irc client must be confused, I don't see any admins of this channel.  I'm assuming you're one?  Can you mark me a reviewer in the REVU database
<persia> REVU admins and #ubuntu-motu admins aren't the same set, but yeah, I'm supposed to be able to do that
 * persia hasn't done it in a while, so it may take a few minutes
<persia> BY the way, the Statistics page on REVU has a list of all the admins
<mterry> persia, oh, the REVU wiki page is unclear on the distinction.  let me edit.  How is someone supposed to know set of REVU admins?
<mterry> persia, heh, whoops.  OK
<shriekout> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/happytimer
<shriekout> please... advice....
<persia> mterry: Should work now.
<persia> (and as our newest reviewer, maybe you want the latest review request ? )
<mterry> persia, I'll start with netbook-launcher-efl
<persia> shriekout: I don't have time for a proper review of happytimer right now, but I'll give you a capsule one here
<persia> Priority "extra" is for packages that break things or conflict with core: you want Priority "optional"
<shriekout> :)
<shriekout> yes...
<shriekout> thanks :)
<persia> shriekout: Please add a debian/watch file or get-orig-source rule
<shriekout> humm...
<persia> Err, ignore that.  The diff is sorted differently than I expected :(
<shriekout> :)
<persia> I don't see anything else quick-like.
<persia> But I'm doing a few other things: maybe someone else can do a full review, or I'll catch it later.
<shriekout> yes..
<shriekout> persia, thanks :)
<persia> Nice work!
<Rhonda> Laney, persia: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/497785
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 497785 in launchpad "codeofconduct page falsely claims 1.1 was released 2005-04-12" [Undecided,New]
<shriekout> have a nice day :)
<persia> shriekout: Well, l'm an hour east of you, but thanks :)
<shriekout> :)
<persia> Rhonda: Thanks for the pointer.
<shriekout> i'm a korean... Iâm not so good at English... sorry...
<shriekout> thanks persia for your advice :)
 * Rhonda thanks persia and Laney :)
<persia> Rhonda: I'm not sure I deserve that, but you're always welcome :)
<Rhonda> You do deserve more. :)
<jpds> Rhonda: dholbach was the person who landed the coc-1.1 branch.
<Rhonda> jpds: I'm aware of that. :)  But this isn't about the CoC itself, rather about wording on the codeofconduct page in launchpad.
<ulysses__> Hello, I am working on bug 497742
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497742 in ubuntu "[needs packaging]Please replace STasks with Smooth Tasks" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497742
<ulysses__> I want a littlhe help: what should I write in the control file for Build depends?
<persia> ulysses__: That's usually best detemined by trial and error.
<persia> But you might look at some other plasmoids, and start with a minimal set like that.
<persia> You might also get more specific advise in #kubuntu-devel (although there are often a fair number of KDE people here).
<ulysses__> Thanks
<Quintasan> dholbach: I sent you answers for Behind MOTU, the picture of me is just... well I'll wait for your reaction :P
<Laney> I forgot to respond to that when I got MOTU :(
<Quintasan> Laney: what a shame, you are missing you opportunity for international fame, tons of money and girls ;)
<Quintasan> your*
<dholbach> Laney: do it
<dholbach> Quintasan: I'll have a look in a bit
<Quintasan> dholbach: Great :)
<matti> dholbach: ;]
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Quintasan> bddebian: \o
<bddebian> Hello Quintasan
<paultag> Hey guys, I have a quick question about importing from debian -- do we use the dsc and modify the control / changelog and use that, or do we take the upstream tgz and recreate the debian folder, any links or help would be well recieved :)
<ScottK> paultag: Hopefully we don't make any change at all.
<ScottK> If some change is needed, it's use the .dsc, modify changelog, control, etc.
<paultag> ScottK, I'm doing upstream, and I wanted to submit it for Ubuntu review
<paultag> ScottK, so it's OK to use the dsc and make small changes to control / changelog?
<ScottK> Yes.
<paultag> ScottK, thanks :)
<machina> anyone know how to make a diff that would remove binary files?
<persia> machina: You can't.
<Laney> you can't remove files, only reduce them to emptiness
<persia> (limitation of patch)
<persia> machina: You could delete stuff in debian/rules clean: (which is what some people do)
<persia> But if they are non-free binaries, you need to repack or complain to upstream.
<machina> that's kinda upsetting...
<machina> they aren't non-free, it just looks like the author, run ./configure or make in his new upstream
<machina> should I just not worry about the object files & binary file then?
<machina> I'll send a message to upstream though
<Emanem> Hi all, I have an issue with Ubuntu deb creation
<Emanem> is there anyone able to help?
<persia> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Emanem> ok... I'm assembling by hand a deb file
<persia> Ah.  You probably don't want to start from there :)
<persia> Do you have source?
<Emanem> I've created the debian-binary and the archive with control (control.tar.gz) and data (data.tar.gz)
<Emanem> no
<Emanem> I'll release the source as tar.bz2 plus just 2 packages for ubuntu 32 and 64
<Emanem> and I just want to created a deb file with 1 only executable
<azeem> Emanem: assembling by hand is discouraged
<Emanem> btw I've coded and compiled the binary
<Emanem> why?
<Emanem> then what can I use?
<azeem> it's not easily reproducable
<Emanem> this software is .2 and wanted to release the source plus 32 and 64 deb just for testing purposes (eg for people that don't want to recomile it)
<Emanem> so which tools can I use?
<persia> Emanem: Create a source package, and then get it built somewhere to generate your .debs.
<Emanem> why do I have to do so?
<Emanem> my deb consist of 2 dependencies and 1 only executable
<Emanem> plus I'm using a simple Makefile to build my project, don't want to include the ./configure etc etc
<geser> Emanem: how can I be sure that the binary you build matches the source?
<wrapster> hi all.. when i dist upgrade is done this is the error I get... http://pastie.org/747466
<wrapster> its not ubuntu ... but related to packaging so asking here...
<wrapster> could anyone please help me understand what this means and about any ideas as to how i can resolve it?
<Emanem> persia , geser : I don't think honestly, I'll provide the sources with GPLv3, so people will be able to rebuild themselves. Packages are only for people which don't want to rebuild it
<Emanem> that's why I want to include an executable
<persia> Emanem: See, you create a source package, and you have it built, and users can get the binaries.
<Emanem> I'm getting this error btw: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1356471
<persia> We just don't have any good tools for assembling binary packages directly.
<Emanem> sorry but doesn't the deb format rely on ar ?
<Emanem> I don't understand this then... how can people like Skype provide proper packages?
<geser> Emanem: and an user can also use the source package if he needs to modify your program (e.g. apply a patch, build with newer libs, etc.) to build a new deb
<Emanem> geser :  the program will be released under gplv3, so they'll be free to do whatever they want :)
<Emanem> the point is, there must be a proper guide/howto to explain the format/which tools/programs are used to create proper packages
<geser> Emanem: sure, but without a source package it harder to them to build an updated deb (or do you ship a script to hand-build a deb?)
<Emanem> geser: latter could be... but even not, the program is simple
<persia> Or better stated: it's harder for *you* to build a binary package.
<Emanem> so, what am I doing wrong? the error I'm having when I try to install the deb is : dpkg-deb: file `/home/ema/TEST/packages/TEST-0.2_amd64.deb' is not a debian binary archive (try dpkg-split?)
<geser> Emanem: Skype probably use a source package too, they just skip the compilation during the package building and install the pre-built binaries
<geser> Emanem: how did you assemble the deb? (the last step)
<persia> I thought Skype used a source package and just didn't share the source.
<Emanem> geser: "ar -r mypackage-2.0_amd64.deb control.tar.gz data.tar.gz debian-binary"
<geser> persia: I don't know, I just assumed
<persia> Emanem: We're not really prepared to help you do it that way.  None of us do it that way.
<Emanem> Sorry guys, but can you please point me to the script that is assembling the last step? I fear that I have to manually modify the "archived" (ar -r) file
<geser> Emanem: although debs are 'ar' archives, dpkg doesn't like all (don't know the details)
<Emanem> and how are these created? which tool?
<persia> We use debuild or dpkg-buildpackage on source packages to generate binary package.
<persia> So we really don't know the manual process.
<persia> (or we use sbuild or pdebuild or upload to some archive)
<Emanem> sorry but there must be some sort of tools used to produce proper deb if ar can't be used...
<geser> in the end dpkg-deb creates the deb, but as persia said, without a reason nobody looks at the low-level steps to build a packages
<persia> Emanem: You really will find your life easier if you just create a few files in debian/ in your source and run debuild.
<persia> It's not a clean package, but it's easier than trying to create binary packages manually.
<Emanem> persia: what is debian/ ? maybe I'm missing that bit
<persia> !packaging
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<persia> Emanem: Take a look at our packaging guide.
<persia> Basically, to create a package, unpack your source tarball, create a debian/ directory, add copyright, changelog, control, compat, and rules, and build.
<persia> (it can get more complex, but that's the high-level overview)
<Emanem> ubottu: the guide is broken
<Emanem> persia: do you know where can I find the online sources of dpkg-buildpackage so I can look them myself?
<Emanem> (I'm tempted to release the 2 binaries without any deb package...and btw this is why devs have hard time doing these things... how comes that one has to use 3/4 scripts to basically create an archive file (deb)?)
<persia> apt-get source dpkg-dev
<geser> Emanem: http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git
<Emanem> thanks geser
<geser> Emanem: http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=blob;f=scripts/dpkg-buildpackage.pl;h=cf39187aa0726ef68b034012828f0920df80aeaa;hb=HEAD
<Emanem> The error I get is thrown here: http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=blob;f=dpkg-deb/extract.c;h=cd8332282f6261903af6d62d4fad3667a1931474;hb=HEAD#l147
<Emanem> LOL found out the error
<Emanem> dpkg expects the first file of the archive to be debian-binary... omg...
<Emanem> so even order matters...
<Emanem> well now I'm getting another error... I guess I'll source-debug dpkg and eventually find out all the issues and fix them...
<Emanem> thanks guys for the dpkg sources
<persia> Emanem: You really might have an easier time with a source package :)
<Emanem> persia: I'm more a software dev/computer scientist and actually when something doesn't properly work I really enjoy dig, understand and (possibly) fix
<Emanem> thanks for suggestions anyway :)
<Emanem> persia, geser: YESSS! I did it! :-)
<blackxored> I need an sru for azureus in karmic
<ScottK> !SRU
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<blackxored> s/I need an sru/I need to do an sru
<blackxored> the azureus issue
<blackxored> is confirmed
<blackxored> can't run 4.2.0.8 in karmic anymore
<blackxored> so I got 4.3.0.0 in lucid
<blackxored> how to proceed?
<blackxored> this bug
<blackxored> Bug #488507
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488507 in azureus "version upgrade to 4.3 required - HD network no longer working in current version" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488507
<Emanem> persia, geser: One last question: are the following libraries [libstdc++.so.6 , libm.so.6, libgcc_s.so.1, libpthread.so.0 ] installed by default on every Ubuntu system, am I correct? I guess nothing would run without those...
<ScottK> blackxored: Generally SRU should be a patch targetted to solve a specific problem.  You should probably discuss it with someone in ubuntu-sru.  IIRC jdong is both on ubuntu-sru and familiar with azureus.
<blackxored> ScottK, thanks
<geser> Emanem: you can assume that. they are so low in the dependency chain, that nothing is left if you try to remove them
<Emanem> geser: I definitely would imagine that after 10+ years c/c++, but you know, better double check than have bad surprises...
<geser> you might need to check if you need special symbols that only appear since a specific version
<awe> lool, james_w: do either of you guys know what the deal is with merge-o-matic ( merges.ubuntu.com )?  is it supposed to be up-to-date?
<james_w> I think it keeps falling over
<awe> I did a merge two weeks ago for gst-plugins-bad, and it hasn't updated...
<geser> last I heard MoM still doesn't like format 3.0 packages (even with the backported dpkg), don't know if it got fixed
<tombee> Are there any opportunities to get involved with security programming in Ubuntu? :)
<kees> tombee: sure thing.  see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam
<tombee> Wow great, thanks kees
<kees> np.  we hang out in #ubuntu-hardened  (redirected from #ubuntu-security)  see the bottom of that page for the GettingInvolved link
<tombee> The thing is I'm not that experienced in software security, but it's something I'd like to gain experience in and educate myself in :)
<tombee> So I'm not sure how I would go about 'getting started'
<tombee> kees: the roadmap looks good though :)
<Rhonda> I wonderâ¦ I merged multiple accounts into my rhonda account. With that came various mail addresses. If I remove those addresses, will the merge be undone, or would that only affect future stuff that would get imported with those addresses?
<geser> I guess you need to ask in #launchpad to get an answer (or even file a question)
<persia> Rhonda: I'd recommend just hiding the addresses, unless there's some special reason to forcibly remove them.
<Rhonda> Yeah, they are hidden anyway.
<Rhonda> geser: Oh, right. Always forget about that special-purpose channel. Sorry. %-/
 * wgrant is concerned that it's "special-purpose", and not for a different product, as is reality.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-18
<rhpot1991> hey guys building a new package now, can anyone fill me in on the purpose of cdbs's makefile.mk?
<RAOF> rhpot1991: That hooks up the magical unicorn to a generic "make; make install" upstream build system.
<rhpot1991> RAOF: ok so what is the best way to only have it do make and not make install?
<rhpot1991> I have a .install file that puts the files where they need to be
<RAOF> rhpot1991: There's probably some magical CDBS variable you can frob.  I wouldn't bother; I'd use debhelper.
<RAOF> It would go something like: "%:\n\t dh $@ \n\n override_dh_auto_install:\n\t# do nothing, because we install ourselves"
<rhpot1991> RAOF: ya someone else is trying to convince me to give dh7 a try for this instead, gonna take a stab at that I think
<RAOF> It's all the best bits of cdbs without the infuriating arcana.
<machina> If I'm packaging a new upstream release, should the copyright file state that it was "debianized" by me, or should it stay as the debian maintainer?
<RAOF> Stay as the debian maintainer; that's the _initial_ debianisation.
<machina> ah, thanks
<RAOF> Incidentally, good work on actually looking at debian/copyright when packaging the new release.
<machina> heh thanks, I'm just trying to get everything right
<machina> speaking of the copyright file,
<rhpot1991> RAOF: dh7 works much better :)
<RAOF> rhpot1991: It does, doesn't it :)
<rhpot1991> yep, got everything working now, just gotta sort out the patches
<machina> RAOF: the previous contained an excerpt of GPL-2, but when I generated a blank one in lucid it looks like I can just reference the license on the system
<machina> is that correct?
<RAOF> You can include the preamble + "you can find the full licence in /usr/share/etc...", but I wouldn't change that when updating the package.
<machina> ok, ...the debian-policy isn't very clear on it. thanks!
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> good mornind dholbach !
<dholbach> hey fabrice_sp
<HIDID> hi i want to upload my first package how to find one
<iulian> G'morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya iulian
<HIDID> where i will find task to (package)
<dholbach> try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<Quintasan|Szel> hello
<c_korn> are there some information around how to build a package which makes use of dkms for kernel modules ?
<ScottK> c_korn: apt-cache rdepends dkms and pick from the examples.
<shriekout> please advice... :)
<shriekout> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/happytimer
<dholbach> Quintasan: thanks a bunch - posted :)
<Quintasan> dholbach: :)
<Quintasan> dholbach: oh my, I really messed up that photo, I forgot to set correct resolution >_<
<dholbach> Quintasan: if you want a new one there, mail it to me
<falktx> anyone has a little time for a revu?
<falktx> swh-lv2 and zyn
<falktx> the zyn is missing *.desktop files, but I'll check that later
<dnivra_> can someone enlighten me about the sponsorship process? i read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess and understood what is sponsoring and why sponsoring. but how I put up my patch for review?
<persia> dnivra_: Which bug?
<dnivra_> i uploaded two patches in launchpad. how do I know if it's being reviewed or not?
<dnivra_> just a sec let me retrieve the bug numbers
<m4rtin> dnivra_: the section that says "Requesting Sponsorship" tells you all you need to do
<dnivra_> persia: LP #1994472 and LP #401692
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1994472 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401692 in gedit "Gedit - default file name is "unsaved document"" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401692
<m4rtin> "Subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors, ubuntu-universe-sponsors or ubuntu-security-sponsors as appropriate" and set status Confirmed, assigned to: nobody
<dnivra_> persia: LP #194472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194472 in sudo "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194472
<dnivra_> m4rtin: subscribe the sponsors to what?
<geser> to your bug
<m4rtin> on the right there's a section listing who is subscribed. Press "subscribe somebody else" (or whatever it says) and attach the sponsor
<dnivra_> geser, m4rtin, persia: thanks
<persia> dnivra_: In the case of 401692, you've gotten a review by a developer, who firstly asked you to send the patch to the upstream bugtracker, and secondly reports that the suggested patch could cause confusion.  I'd recommend following up on those points.
<dnivra_> m4rtin: well I didn't know what to subscribe them too
<dnivra_> persia: will look into it; thank you
<persia> dnivra_: For 194472, you'll want to subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors, as suggested by geser and m4rtin.
<dnivra_> geser, persia, m4rtin: thank you very much
<m4rtin> np :)
<falktx> anyone here is using Lucid?
<falktx> I cannot copy-paste correctly sometimes...
<persia> falktx: You might want to ask in #ubuntu+1, which is the user-support channel for the development release.
<falktx> ...
<falktx> lol
<persia> (note that few people there have *the* answer: it's a peer-coordinated system to collectively learn and provide effective support when the release happens)
<falktx> thanks again persia
<Go> hi everyone (:
<falktx> hi
<machina> anyone know where I can find out about having a debian/patches directory?
<persia> machina: There's some info inthe packaging guide.  Let's see if the bot knows a better link.
<persia> !patches
<persia> Guess not :(
<machina> lol i'll take a look
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<quadrispro> !patch
<ubottu> Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.  There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines.
<persia> quadrispro: Thanks :)  Next time I won't have to actually check the wiki :)
<quadrispro> eh eh
<machina> thanks all
<gabriel__> buenas tardes a todos
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Anyone willing to have a look at fceux in REVU (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fceux)?It's the evolution of fceu (a NES emulator), and I'm hosting it in my ppa for the moment
<falktx> I'm waiting for qtsixa for over 3 months...
<falktx> I know you'll wait a while...
<om26er> how can i help ubuntu.
<randomaction> om26er: see links in channel topic and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<machina> hi, I'm trying to update this copyright from this http://pastebin.com/d5200e964 to this http://pastebin.com/d1fafa456
<machina> but I don't know if it's right for me to put a copyright under the debian maintainer's name?
<om26er> randomaction, what should i know to start developing..? any language?
<om26er> randomaction, i mean to join motu
<randomaction> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, it has information on how to join
<machina> anyone know how to reference a debian bug in an Ubuntu changelog?
<EzraR> i would think ubuntu fixes ubuntu bugs and debian fixes debian bugs
<randomaction> any way you want, it won't autoclose it anyway
<ScottK> If someone wants to package http://www.mangler.org/ I will promise you it gets reviewed.
<EzraR> wow, nice
<machina> It wasn't for a fix, it's just to show why I reverted a patch
<EzraR> vent has been "woring" on a linux client forever
<falktx> I could package mangler
<falktx> the site looks nic
<falktx> *nice*
<ScottK> Go for it.
<falktx> I wonder if the app itself is as good
<EzraR> it already has a deb
<falktx> i'll try it next week
<falktx> busy with some other packages now
<machina> so no real way to reference a debian bug?
<falktx> ScottK: if you remember me next week, I promise I'll package it
<falktx> haha
<falktx> because a package name includes "++", firefox can't open the revu page
<falktx> lol
<falktx> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lv2-c%2B%2B-tools
<falktx> "%2B" is suppose to be "+"
<EzraR> i have some free time I could do it unless your really set on doing it falktx
<falktx> no, you go
<falktx> i'm busy already with qtsixa,zyn,swh-lv2,fst & lv2-c++
<falktx> but hey,
<EzraR> heh
<falktx> the lv2-c++-tools page can't be displayed
<falktx> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/lv2-c++-tools
<falktx> WTF
<falktx> I guess I'll depend on gmail for this
<fabrice_sp> anyone knows why cdbs with pysupport still install python packages in site-packages ? Is there a way to force cdbs to install in dist-package? This is the second package I had to patch so that test run fine because of that
<fabrice_sp> hmmm, it seems site-packages is hardcoded in /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk, so no way to use dist-package. Will have to patch the package :-/
<dktrkranz> fabrice_sp: re python-multiprocessing, you probably uploaded by mistake :( I asked removal because it's already part of python2.6 (see bug #418280). I'll reopen it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418280 in python-multiprocessing "Please remove python-multiprocessing from Lucid" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418280
<fabrice_sp> dktrkranz, no: I wanted to fix a FTBFS, as this package appears in the FTBFS page :-/
<fabrice_sp> it was FTBFS on purpuse, then. Sorry about that
<dktrkranz> It was removed ten days ago, strange it was still there. Don't worry :)
<fabrice_sp> this also mean that the package should be blacklisted, then
<EzraR> if upstream includes a debian dir should i remove it?
<EzraR> or work with it
<ScottK> EzraR: You're choice.  Generally depends on if it needs a little or a lot of work.
<EzraR> ScottK: hardly any but i would rather use cdbs and do i change orig maintainer or not? do i need to recopyright the package in my name?
<dktrkranz> fabrice_sp: all done, thanks.
<ScottK> EzraR: If upstream has produced a reasonable quality Debian package, why would you do it other than the way they prefer?
<fabrice_sp> dktrkranz, It seems like this package has been synced after being deleted from Lucid. Thanks to you! :-)
<fabrice_sp> I need to also cancel the bug I reported to Debian because of the FTBFS :-)
<EzraR> 989
<EzraR> 4+/
<EzraR> /*7*/
<POX> fabrice_sp: pysupport doesn't use site-packages nor dist-packages
<POX> just don't touch anything and it will work
<POX> (dh_pysupport will do the right thing)
<fabrice_sp> POX, I know, but a test is run to check the python lib is ok before generating the package, and it's using get_python_lib(), that return dist-pacakges
<fabrice_sp> but the lib is in usr/lib/python2.6/site-package not in  dist-packages. So I have to add a "addsitedir(join(root, "usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages"))" line in the test script
<fabrice_sp> which is a kind of 'ugly'
<POX> hint: PYTHONPATH
<fabrice_sp> it's python-netaddr, if you want to check
<fabrice_sp> ok: I can use PYTHONPATH in debian/rules, but it's still ugly to have python2.6/site-packages :-D
<machina> I'm packaging a source (xsensors 0.60) that has autoconf generated files left over. Do I need to make a separate patch for a 'dist-clean'ed version of the source, or is it good enough that the clean target in debian/rules gets rid of them?
<fabrice_sp> machina, try to keep the debdiff as small as possible, so a clean target should be enough
<POX> fabrice_sp: I will add a fix in DPMT repo
<fabrice_sp> DPMT ?
<POX> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/PythonModulesTeam
<machina> fabrice_sp, is there documentation on how the rules file is used (the order it's targets are called)?
<fabrice_sp> ohhh. Thanks POX ! :-)
<fabrice_sp> machina, you cna have a look at http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html
<POX> fabrice_sp: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/python-modules/packages/python-netaddr/trunk/debian/runtests.py?r1=10078&r2=10823
<fabrice_sp> POX: cool: I'll apply the same patch in Ubuntu, and we'll sync the package after
<POX> dktrkranz: heh, looks like someone really likes multiprocessing (and one copy is just not enough for him ;)
<machina> fabrice_sp, thanks  ( :
<dktrkranz> POX: :D
<tgpraveen122> hi i dont know if this is the right channel but a package barrybackup after installation needs to be started with sudo for it to run properly. is this something that should be handled in ubuntu or by the developers of that app
<tgpraveen122> ?
<tgpraveen122> this prob exists in karmic and the one before that
<POX> oh, it's fabrice_sp (I received a mail because I reported initial mail)
<maco> so whats the problem then?
<maco> are you saying it shouldnt require sudo to run?
<maco> or are you saying it should be a service?
<fabrice_sp> POX, yes :-)I'm fixing FTBFS in python modules, and python-multiprocessing was FTBFS. I even opened a bug report in Debian :-D
<POX> s/mail)/bug)/
<POX> fabrice_sp: #debian-python @ OFTC
<tgpraveen122> maco: the app is basically to sync data with blackberry phones. unl;ess i run it with sudo it doesnt work. so yes it should run without sudo
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/PythonModulesTeam
<maco> tgpraveen122: i'd ask upstream then
<tgpraveen122> maco: so its surely not a packaging thing right.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, yes: POX pointed me there ;-)
<maco> tgpraveen122: shouldnt be... its not in /sbin or /usr/sbin/ is it?
<tgpraveen122> upstream is basically hard to contact i think. meh guess will have to live with it
<maco> tgpraveen122: check and see who owns it and the permissions on the executable
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: No, he pointed you to the Debian wiki page.  I pointed you to an Ubuntu wiki page about the Debian team.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, ohh, right: I read to quickly (and see wiki.<somestuff>/PythonModulesTeam)
<fabrice_sp> thanks for the link
<tgpraveen122> maco: ok thanks for tip will check ltr. thx
<fabrice_sp> s/to/too/
<quentusrex> Help. How do I get a config file that if it is deleted, the package won't reinstall it.
<quentusrex> treat a delete as as modification
<RAOF> quentusrex: purge the package, then reinstall it.
<persia> Um, that tests whether it will happen.
<persia> Right.  Looks like if the package marks a file as a conffile, and the user deletes it, the user will be prompted on upgrade to confirm that the deletion is intentional.
<quentusrex> aah, ok. good.
<persia> But test that :)  I've just reconfirmed by reading the maintainers guide, but I didn't run a test.
<quentusrex> how do I find out if a directory was installed by the package?
<quentusrex> I am moving folders to be more debian/ubuntu proper
<quentusrex> but I need a way to move the folders from the 'old way' to the new way
<persia> quentusrex: You're attempting to make a system be a functional Ubuntu install _without_ reinstalling?  Or is this just a couple of pieces of software?
<quentusrex> this is just one package...
<quentusrex> and I screwed up the directory locations and a bunch of people are using the package...
<quentusrex> and I'd like to be able to fix my mistake rather then have them purge, then reinstall...
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-19
<persia> Aha.
<persia> So, there's no graceful way to do that, unfortunately.
<persia> The ungraceful way to do it is to fiddle around with maintainer scripts.
<persia> The maintainer scripts are informed about versions, so as an example, when upgrading the maintainer scripts can know the prior version and the version being installed.
<persia> For arbitrary standard stuff (bin, lib, share, etc.) you can just put it in the right place in the new package.
<quentusrex> that's basically what is happening...
<persia> In cases where migration might break something, it might be nice to try to provide some migration tools.
<persia> For configuration, it's a bit trickier.
<quentusrex> there are lots of files in the same directory, when they should have been in /etc and /var
<persia> You can make some changes, but you can't make other changes (by policy)
<quentusrex> ok
<persia> For example, you're not supposed to overwrite or change conffiles.
<quentusrex> that's fine...
<persia> I find http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts to be the best available resource on how maintainer scripts work.
<persia> Best of luck!
<quentusrex> thanks
<quentusrex> I'll need it
<dktrkranz> persia: FYI, a good techincal reference for maintainer script is here: http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/MaintainerScripts.html
<EzraR> im trying to package an app that has a debian dir in the source tarball, in the packaging wiki it says to ask the author to delete the debian dir and supply a diff.gz
<EzraR> what is the point of the diff?
<EzraR> also the author wants to keep the debian dir in the source
<EzraR> any advice?
<EzraR> they had not deleted the .ex files so I did and got lintan warnings about it, will that be a problem in revu?
<quentusrex> How do I do an if statement in debian rules file?
<EzraR> quentusrex: just like you would in a shell script i believe
<EzraR> quentusrex: it might want a \ after each line
<EzraR> something like     if [ $month -eq 13 ]; then
<EzraR> 	month=1
<EzraR> 	let year=year+1
<EzraR> sorry thats not what was suposed to paste
<maxb> quentusrex: It rather depends what the circumstances are - sometimes you do it as shell, sometimes you do it using makefile syntax
<maxb> EzraR: I _think_ that if there's a debian dir in the upstream source, you have the choice of either trying to work with it (such that the diff.gz adjusts upstreams into yours) or often just giving in and repacking the tarball without it.
<maxb> Long term, it sounds like the right thing to do is to engage upstream in a discussion on why they want to have a debian packaging in-tree
<wgrant> maxb: Or use 3.0 (quilt).
<maxb> I'll learn that once Ubuntu supports it :-) .... (soon, I know)
<wgrant> It's been supported for nearly 24 hours.
<maxb> heh
<wgrant> And it looks like an autosync run happened a few hours ago, and worked.
<wgrant> Excellent.
<JontheEchidna> sweet
<andrewLuvsUbuntu> Hi All
<gaurav> hi tu u
<gaurav> too
<gaurav> hey can nyone help me
<gaurav> ???
<ScottK> gaurav: The odds of you getting your question answered go up if you actually ask it.
<andrewLuvsUbuntu> Just reading the subject ... I am wanting to see if I can contribute. Although I have only worked with Ubuntu for a short time I have 12 years of professional exp. I will have a look at the site above but any other tips or starting points so I can be useful quickly?
<ScottK> andrewLuvsUbuntu: Figure out what you want to work and and be pasionate about making it better.
<andrewLuvsUbuntu> Thanks ScottK, is there area's/lists of what Ubuntu covers IE most apps etc are not just Ubuntu
<ScottK> andrewLuvsUbuntu: That's true, but everything that is in Ubuntu can be part of helping out.
<ScottK> Since you're a volunteer here, figuring out what you want to do is more productive that figuring out what the project needs.
<ScottK> (it's needs are broad ranging and approximately infinite)
<andrewLuvsUbuntu> Cheers, I will do some reading and come back. But would like to thank you all 9.10 is the best OS I have ever used!
<EzraR> ScottK: I finished that package (mangler) but the debian dir that came with it from upstream had all the .ex files in it still
<EzraR> i deleted them but when It builds it leaves them in because of the .orig.tar.gz
<EzraR> I cant send it through with those in it, so my only other option is change the orig.tar.gz
<EzraR> unless you have a better idea
<EzraR> the author wants to keep the debian dir in the source
<dhillon-v10> hi all, I noticed that there are a lot of bugs in launchpad that have the tag [needs-packaging] so if I do about 20 of those right am I eligible to apply for MOTU
<ScottK> EzraR: Then he should make it a better debian dir.
<EzraR> true, i can help him with that
<gaurav2> hey I am new to the concept of MOTU but very excited and want to know how can I start to help
<gaurav2> :-D
<directhex> ehm... let's see if this works
<directhex> !contributing
<directhex> bah
<directhex> !motu
<ubottu> motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<directhex> urgh, i have no idea which factoids are appropriate here
<directhex> generally though, pick what you want to do, and do it - you formally become a MOTU when others have noticed how awesome you are and say "you should become a MOTU"
<gaurav2> okkk
<gaurav2> would you please guide me
<gaurav2> about how should i go about it
<james_w> gaurav2: are there any bugs that you reported?
<gaurav2> naah
<directhex> bug triage & bug fixing is a high priority one
<gaurav2> okk
<directhex> updating existing packages
<gaurav2> hmmm
<james_w> is there any software you use that isn't packaged?
<directhex> i'd say the least important job is new packages
<gaurav2> yeah
<gaurav2> I mean it doesn't come in .deb format
<gaurav2> then should it be packaged
<directhex> if you like. starting with a new package is a kinda trial-by-fire way to learn this stuff, but by all means
<gaurav2> hmmm
<gaurav2> and how do u fix bugs it must be a really difficult task
<directhex> depends on the bug, really
<gaurav2> hmmm
<directhex> sometimes a bug can be something as simple as "typo in the package description"
<gaurav2> okkk
<directhex> sometimes it can involve hacking on a package's source
<gaurav2> ok
<directhex> it's a big wide world out there
<gaurav2> true
<gaurav2> u r very helpful
<gaurav2> and which programming language r most of the packages written in
<gaurav2> C++ or Python
<gaurav2> :-D
<directhex> i think the most popular language in the archive is C
<directhex> for some reason
<directhex> C++ is popular mostly by way of KDE; Python is popular for more recent high-level app design
<directhex> there are loads of languages in the archive though. my personal area of control is C#
<persia> dktrkranz: Thanks for that.  It's more updated than the one I was using, and at least as complex (although I may need to use a custom CSS to read it often)
<bdrung> Whoopie: what's your real name? i want to mention it in the debian/changelog for vlc instead of just using "Whoopie"
<bjsnider> siretart`, ping
<matti> ;]
<joaopinto> hum, our virtualbox-ose lags behind debian
<crimsun> joaopinto: you're free to do the merge
<joaopinto> well, the modules fail to build with the current kernel
<joaopinto> there is a fix on the gentoo bug tracker, but I am not sure it makes sense to apply it to the current version which is behind debian's
<joaopinto> crimsun, I don't like doing merges when I am not familiar whith the problems that required introcuding ubuntu changes
<crimsun> 3.1.2 fails to build in lucid?
<joaopinto> and certainly not for a a package which includes DKMS, I don't have any experience :)
<crimsun> that's somewhat surprising, since 3.1.0 builds fine in lucid
<joaopinto> 3.0.8-dfsg-1ubuntu1 is what I get from my archive
<joaopinto> lucid
<joaopinto> crimsun, I mean, the current version on lucid fails to install, not the debian version on Lucid
<crimsun> joaopinto: right, well, it doesn't make much sense to try and fix lucid's existing one because there's already a newer one in Debian sid
<joaopinto> I was going to use virtualbox to check test some packages on Debian VM :P
<joaopinto> crimsun, right, but someone will need to merge it :)
 * ScottK hands joaopinto a mirror
<joaopinto> hum, my bug was se to duplicated of bug 474625
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474625 in virtualbox-ose "[lucid] VirtualBox kernel module fails to build against Linux >= 2.6.32" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/474625
<joaopinto> http://bugs.gentoo.org/290296 is supposed to fix the building failure
<joaopinto> well, it's being worked, i just need to fix mine :P
<ari-tczew> is possible way to get package's source from Debian on Ubuntu like "apt-get source" ?
<ScottK> pull-lp-source in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<ScottK> err, pull-debian-source
<ari-tczew> this is what I looked for! thanks ScottK
<ari-tczew> pbuilder build is for .dsc file but if I have unpacked .dsc and patched (debdiff applied), how can I run pbuilder in directory?
<ScottK> You can't.
<ScottK> Use pbuilder login to log into the pbuilder chroot and then do it there (then debuild -us -uc)
<Laney> pdebuild?
<ari-tczew> so how sponsors tests debdiff for merges?
<Laney> build a source package and then pbuilder it
<crimsun> I use piuparts as well.
<crimsun> ScottK: do you have time to approve #498354 so I can fulfill the prereqs for #496274?
 * ScottK looks
<ari-tczew> huh, alsa 1.0.22 is out
<crimsun> ari-tczew: yes, I know.
<ari-tczew> :)
<crimsun> I have utils, tools, and driver done already. I'll svn ci later this weekend to pkg-alsa
<crimsun> however, it's not pressing
<crimsun> I already backported all the important bits into Lucid's source packages days ago
<ari-tczew> crimsun: do you will first update alsa first in debian?
<crimsun> ari-tczew: yes
<bjsnider> are diffs between one package version and another saved somewhere?
<ScottK> crimsun: Very odd it didn't get autmoatically sync'ed.
<ScottK> OK, I see it's Unstable.
<crimsun> right, and testing's is older
<ScottK> crimsun: I can't do the actual sync's needs an archive admin with shell access.
<crimsun> ScottK: ah, ok. Sorry about that.
<randomaction> bjsnider: if you mean versions in official repos, then yes, they can be viewed in LP branches
<bjsnider> in other words, a diff between package-0ubuntu1 and 0ubuntu2
<randomaction> you can usually find these in LP, eg https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-commander/1.2.8.3-0ubuntu1 ("available diffs")
<ari-tczew> or put: debdiff *ubuntu1 ubuntu2 > 1_to_2.debdiff
<ari-tczew> err, ubuntu1.dsc ubuntu2.dsc
<randomaction> sure, debdiff will serve you well if you have the packages downloaded :)
<bjsnider> thanks, found it
<cratylus> can i choose which repository apt-get source fetches a source package from without apt pinning ?
<christoph_debian> cratylus: apt-get source will only work withe the corresponding deb-src line and then understands -t $distribution
<cratylus> christoph_debian, so as long as i have the deb-src line in my sources.list somwhaere i can use -t. hmm gonna try this now
<persia> Just take care, as this will randomly grab the newest available source when used without -t, which is highly unlikely to match either distribution entirely if used for multiple packages.
<persia> There's also pull-debian-source in ubuntu-dev-tools
<cratylus> hmm, so far no dice either way, it still prefers karmic to the lucid version that i want
<cratylus> persia, will try your method as well
<persia> You'll want to run apt-get update to properly test christoph_debian's solution.
<randomaction> cratylus: you can use apt-get source PACKAGE=VERSION if you know the exact version to fetch
<persia> Alternately, it is potentially possible that the karmic and lucid versions are the same.
<persia> randomaction: Only in the case where that version is available in the local apt cache.
<cratylus> persia, yeah i made sure to put an entry in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/lucid mirroring the karmic entries but replacing the word karmic with lucid
<cratylus> and then updating
<randomaction> i agree, apt-get update is good
<cratylus> persia, to answer your earlier question, yeah i made sure they're different versions in the release. the package in question is rkhunter and it was converted from dpatch source format to the new "3.0 (quilt)" format. wanted to study existing examples
<siretart> bjsnider: whats uo?
<bjsnider> siretart, oh good, you're there
<bjsnider> you know that problem with karmic's mplayer build where fontconfig was only enabled on i386?
<siretart> uh?
<siretart> i thought ive fixed that
<bjsnider> i just wondered first of all if you remembered it
<bjsnider> i guess you do
<bjsnider> for some reason
<siretart> the rules were/are pretty broken and fail to apply patches on !i386
<bjsnider> the one i build on the ppa build system does not apply fontconfi at the very least to amd64
<bjsnider> and i'm using your fixed rules file
<bjsnider> if i call mplayer by itself with no options, it yaps about missing fonts. if i add -fontconfig to the line, everything's fine
<bjsnider> i've got the patch, and the rules file, but it still fails
<siretart> is it *really* applied?
<bjsnider> if it didn't apply the patch, the build would fail
<bjsnider> didn't you submit it upstream?
<bjsnider> yeah, it's definitely applied. i just looked at the raw file to be patched and it is exactly what the patch expects
<Whoopie> bdrung: that's fine as you committed it, thanks a lot!!
<bdrung> Whoopie: you're welcome
<Whoopie> bdrung: are you also from the sru team?
<bdrung> Whoopie: no, i am a normal MOTU
<Whoopie> ok
<bjsnider> siretart, ok, i was totally wrong. that patch didn't apply on i386 or amd64. i'm looking at the build logs
<bjsnider> oh, how stupid of me. i took that patch out of the series file for some reason...
<bjsnider> i should have checked that earlier
<bjsnider> whoops
<quentusrex> Where do I get info on the proper file locations?
<quentusrex> where to put documentation? binaries? log files? etc?
<crimsun> Debian Policy is a starting point
<ScottK> FHS tool
<ScottK> too.
<xnox> Hello. Does dh 7 style packaging manages DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS in particular parallel building with autoconf project
<xnox> s/manages/looks at and uses/
#ubuntu-motu 2009-12-20
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> anyone know when dh added the '--without' option ?
<lifeless> Trying to do a backport of subunit to hardy & getting an error about that
<micahg> lifeless: 7.2.9
<micahg> lifeless: which is karmic and later
<lifeless> arhh - thanks
<MTecknology> I just tried to package for the latest openbox but it'll only build for i386
<MTecknology> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mtecknology/+archive/ppa/+packages
<MTecknology> oh......
<wgrant> It's arch-indep?
<wgrant> Hm, no.
<wgrant> It's arch: i386.
<wgrant> == wrong
<MTecknology> ya, I just changed that to any
<MTecknology> !info openbox lucid
<ubottu> openbox (source: openbox): standards compliant, fast, light-weight, extensible window manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.4.7.2-5 (lucid), package size 266 kB, installed size 1432 kB
<matti> ;]
<MTecknology> maybe this will work right now :)
<MTecknology> waiting for the new build to start now..
<MTecknology> rejected...
<MTecknology> apparently it lacks common sense for >
<MTecknology> :P
<wgrant> ?
<MTecknology> I changed from 3.4.9-ppa0 to 3.4.9-1ubuntu1
<MTecknology> I deleted the ppa0 one
<MTecknology> I'm trying to upload it again
<MTecknology> What's going on with this? https://edge.launchpad.net/~mtecknology/+archive/ppa/+packages
<MTecknology> "Dependency wait"
<MTecknology> eh... I'll just bug somebody to get 3.4.9 into 10.04
<wgrant> MTecknology: Did you just manually retry that?
<wgrant> And on what did it depwait?
<MTecknology> I didn't knwo I could check that..
<wgrant> The email will probably tell you, and so does the page (until it's retried).
<wgrant> Did you retry it?
<wgrant> I wonder if it was retried automatically in error.
<MTecknology> no; no email either; but i wound up deleting it
<wgrant> Oh, right, no email for depwait.
<wgrant> But did you retry it or not
<wgrant> ?
<MTecknology> no
<wgrant> So there is a bug :(
<MTecknology> I broke something :D
<wgrant> Oh, no, I was just looking at the wrong build.
<wgrant> xlibs-dev hasn't existed for a Long Time.
<MTecknology> I'll try to pull the current version and look at the debian/* files and compare
<MTecknology> I was trying to build from what they already had
<MTecknology> git clone git://git.icculus.org/mikachu/openbox openbox
<MTecknology> wgrant: this is weird... I was doing apt-get source openbox and apparently there's this too - svn://svn.debian.org/svn/collab-maint/deb-maint/openbox
<wgrant> MTecknology: Is that weird?
<MTecknology> wgrant: well - they use git..
<MTecknology> wgrant: as far as their wiki sayd
<MTecknology> says*
<wgrant> MTecknology: Upstream might use git now, but the Debian package use(s|d) svn.
<wgrant> Not an uncommon situation.
<MTecknology> ok; I'll just try to make this work using git
<MTecknology> I know git is upstream
<MTecknology> I was told the fix I'm after is in git
<MTecknology> wgrant: I'm thinking I might need to try out dh_make even though most of the stuff is already there .. idk
<MTecknology> wgrant: app_version-karmic0; is that the right format?
<wgrant> MTecknology: That does not match any of the commonly accepted version conventions. Have a look around at packages, PPAs and documentation.
<MTecknology> wgrant: I'm probably too tired to be doing this if I'm not finding any of that :P
<ScottK> Probably.
<MTecknology> 0ubuntu1
<MTecknology> I see that one
<ScottK> that's for the archive, not for PPAs
<MTecknology> I was looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/~doctormo/+archive/ppa
<MTecknology> I saw app_version-ppa0 earlier
<ScottK> He's not an Ubuntu developer, so consider the source.
<MTecknology> true
<MTecknology> I'd like to make sure this gets into 10.04; but that comes later; for now I just use -ppa0 ?
<ScottK> No.
<MTecknology> I'
<MTecknology> I'll look around more
<crimsun> foo_1.0-0ubuntu1~ppa1, foo_1.0-0ubuntu1~mktecknology1; foo_1.0-0ubuntu1+ppa1; foo_1.0-0ubuntu2~ppa1
<crimsun> each of those has a specific use
<crimsun> the first set (delimited by semicolon) is for a PPA version not yet in Ubuntu proper
<crimsun> the second set is for a PPA version newer than what's in Ubuntu proper that you wish to denote is explicitly based on 1.0-0ubuntu1
<crimsun> the third set is for a PPA version newer than what's in Ubuntu proper that you wish to denote may not be based on what will be in the next Ubuntu version
<crimsun> and, of course, there are variations
<crimsun> the importance of proper versioning is that you don't want override the next version in Ubuntu proper
<MTecknology> how do I see how it's named in Ubuntu?
<MTecknology> openbox-3.4.7.2
<crimsun> rmadison
<crimsun> so, rmadison -uubuntu openbox
<crimsun> (you can omit -uubuntu for sufficiently new versions of rmadison)
<crimsun> likewise, -uqa for what's in Debian
<MTecknology> lucid = 3.4.7.2-5
<crimsun> make sure you pass source package names to rmadison (or at least be aware that you should read the corresponding 'source' output line)
<MTecknology> hardy has the ubuntu word in it - 3.4.6.1-0ubuntu2
<crimsun> namely, you can pass binary package names to rmadison, but the output can be confusing unless you're fairly familiar with the packaging (e.g., linux, linux-meta{
<crimsun> )*
<MTecknology> otherwise it goes -2, -3, -4, -5
<MTecknology> I hope to be familiar enough with it someday
<MTecknology> so openbox_3.4.9.0-0+ppa1 ?
<crimsun> what's the actual upstream version?
<MTecknology>    openbox |  3.4.7.2-5 | lucid/universe | source, amd64, i386
<MTecknology> oh..
<MTecknology> 3.9.4
<MTecknology> 3.4.9 **
<crimsun> so, it's a good idea to get 3.9.4 into Debian unstable
<crimsun> 3.4.9, then
<crimsun> since sid only has 3.4.8
<MTecknology> packaging is the same isn't it? I just need to submit to that other place
<crimsun> (a somewhat Ubuntu-centric dev would use 3.4.9-0ubuntu1~foo1, but again, getting it into Debian sid is the better choice)
<MTecknology> http://mentors.debian.net/
<crimsun> yes, mentors
<crimsun> anyhoo, offline for toodles
<MTecknology> which is why it lacks the ubuntu1 part?
<MTecknology> ok, thanks - I'll try to package it with openbox_3.4.9-0+ppa1
<MTecknology> or s/0/1/ ..?
<wgrant> Is it derived from the first Debian version of 3.4.9?
<MTecknology> not afaik
<wgrant> Then -1+* would be a lie.
<MTecknology> debian doesn't have 3.4.9
<MTecknology> -0+* would be honest then?
<wgrant> Yes.
<MTecknology> that's the people telling me arrays should start at 1 :P
<MTecknology> wgrant: so after I build iti I should rename karmic to lenny and submit to debian mentors?
<wgrant> MTecknology: If you want to submit it to Debian mentors, yes.
<MTecknology> thanks
<ScottK> You'll want to follw the Debian scheme for revision numbering on mentors though.
<MTecknology> ScottK: it looks like that means just omittint the +* for this
<MTecknology> this doesn't look like a good package to practice on...
<LLStarks> hi.
<LLStarks> why is adobe-flashplugin used for restricted extras instead of flashplugin-installer?
<surfzoid> Hi
<surfzoid> on the web, is there deb pkg of mono more recent than the 2.4 ?
<surfzoid> directhex: you are the Mono expert :-) ?
<ikonia> if there is why would you want it ?
<surfzoid> ikonia: weired question, but, because i m developper and want to folow some bug fix, new feature and so one, also at least if there isn't one i plane to build one throug open suse build service
<ikonia> if it's outside the ubuntu repo's it doesn't seem with it as it won't be packaged for ubuntu, so your testing may not be valid
<ikonia> eg: you test it , it works, ubuntu package it slightly different (patches etc) and your testing is void
<surfzoid> so once time is the ubuntu mono pkg more recent than the old 2.4 ?
 * surfzoid is there
<ikonia> surfzoid: is it in the repo ?
<surfzoid> ikonia: is there a way to contribute in packaging or the actual maintener of Mono pkg work on it ?
<surfzoid> yes in the repo = 2.4
<ikonia> surfzoid: so then the version in the repo is the latest version
<ikonia> (assuming you're checking all the repos)
<surfzoid> 2.4 is pretty old
<ikonia> surfzoid: what version of ubuntu ?
<surfzoid> ikonia: 9.10 , but i m new in ubuntu word, perhap s i miss an repo
<ikonia> surfzoid: also - you're in the right place to contribute, lots of guys in here are part of the packaging world
<surfzoid> ikonia: so how to process, i already have my own ubutu repo, but is not "oficial"
<ikonia> ikonia: if you go to "system->administration->software sources" you can see what repos you have
<ikonia> surfzoid: I guess it depends where the package you want to update is, (what repo)
<surfzoid> ikonia: my repo live at opensuse OBS
<ikonia> errrrr I mean what ubuntu repo the package you want to update is in
<surfzoid> ikonia: i'm not sur it could help since is in french, but here it is my repo http://picpaste.com/pics/Capture-3.1261306191.png
<surfzoid> i will look for mono source
<surfzoid> ikonia: mono is from this repo : http://picpaste.com/pics/Capture-4.1261306333.png
<ikonia> !info mono-runtime
<ubottu> mono-runtime (source: mono): Mono runtime. In component main, is optional. Version 2.4.2.3+dfsg-2 (karmic), package size 1223 kB, installed size 3432 kB (Only available for i386 lpia kfreebsd-i386 powerpc amd64 kfreebsd-amd64 ia64 arm armeb armel sparc s390 all)
<ikonia> surfzoid: ok - so it's in the core main repo
<surfzoid> !info mono
<ubottu> Package mono does not exist in karmic
<ikonia> surfzoid: you'd have to get a launcpad.net account and contribute to the package that way, it's developers will be in #ubuntu-devel
<surfzoid> hum i have reqested a build pkg of my softwares at lauchpad so my account is enought ?
<ikonia> I'd gues s so
<ikonia> oops, guess so
<surfzoid> so after i build the pkg somewhere and mail directly to the actual maintener ?
<ikonia> log an update request and link your package to it
<ikonia> (the one in your ubuntu branch) talk the maintainers, most are really gratful for help, speak to directhex also, he's put in a lot of effort for mono and ubuntu / debian
<surfzoid> like the !info, there is an query to know the actual guy who package mono ?
<surfzoid> oki
<ikonia> surfzoid: it's normally not one guy (but can be) if you log a bug/upgrade against in launchpad it will contact the maintainers
<surfzoid> damed i m logged at LP, but it is where i post new bug !!
<surfzoid> ikonia: i m complety unable to find how to post a new bug !! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/443398
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 443398 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] MonoOSC" [Wishlist,New]
<ikonia> surfzoid: if there is an existing bug - add to it
<surfzoid> i used the search engine but no result
<surfzoid> so i guess i need to add, but where ?!! it is amazing to have a so complicated system !
<ikonia> then log a new bug,
<ikonia> why did you post that bug (443398) if it's not the bug you're interested in
<surfzoid> that s what i try ,and finally find a link from my old bug, but from home page if you click on "bug" there isn t link to report a new one !!
<surfzoid> iko see date of the bug please
<ikonia> I don't need to see the date of the bug
<surfzoid> ikonia: "why did you post that bug (443398) if it's not the bug you're interested in" because we spoke about an Mono release today and the old 443398 is an MonoOSC bug for release of my software, so yes , see the dates !!
<ikonia> why ???
<ikonia> it's either the bug you want to update, or it's not
<ikonia> in which case log a new one
<surfzoid> comon, of course not : bug 443398 = MonoOSC/MonoOBSFramework, the new bug we are speaking = Mono Framework
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443398 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] MonoOSC" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443398
<ikonia> ????
<ikonia> either update the bug if you feel it's relevant, or log a new bug that is what you need/want
<surfzoid> Finaly i will not report a release query, ubuntu is really to mutch complicated for me, i will simply and badly duplicate efort by building Mono in my OBS repo !!
<ikonia> a release query, ???
<ikonia> you don't want a query, you want it updated, so to get it updated you need to log a bug/feature request
<surfzoid> i know my english is poor, but realy at this level
<ikonia> I don't understand why that is a problem
<surfzoid> release/update query/log okidoki !!
<surfzoid> same thing
<ikonia> ???
<geser> dktrkranz: re debian bug #560758: this it not due the LP debian mirror being out-of-sync (as no --lp switch got used) but due to rmadison now listing several "source" lines and the requestsync code not using the most recent one (I found it now too and looking into it)
<ubottu> Debian bug 560758 in ubuntu-dev-tools "False: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already during requestsync" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/560758
<dktrkranz> geser: mmh, that's probably the real issue, I checked on some packages and I was unable to reproduce anymore, maybe I was just unlucky to pick those with a single source entry
<adhorden> inside a package is there any way to stop it from building the documentation? I am building and packaging a cross compiler based on gcc-4.4.2 but I do not need the docs, so was curious if you can stop this in the configure arguments
<geser> depends on upstream's configure script
<adhorden> geser, the upstream package is gcc-core-4.4.2 and I just apply a patch to build a cross compiler, I am guessing the GCC configure script does not allow you to disable building of docs
<adhorden> I just have an rm -rf /usr/man in my rules but i though there might be a better solution
<surfzoid> so i m trying to build an ubuntu pkg with the folowing dsc : http://pastebin.com/d71362a67
<surfzoid> but i already get the folowing error
<surfzoid> dpkg-source: error: Files field contains bad line `c87d9fdb04a3233cd89512dbf816cc5a mono-2.6.1.tar.gz'
<surfzoid> i really don't see what is wrong in format or other !
<surfzoid> anybody have an clue ?
<ari-tczew> surfzoid, are you trying to build changed by you package? or original package?
<surfzoid> changed by me after calculate again the md5
<surfzoid> ari-tczew: ^
<surfzoid> ok
<ari-tczew> it looks like you did change in orig tarball
<ari-tczew> btw. why this is not .orig.tar.gz ?
<surfzoid> ari-tczew: no clue ?
<ari-tczew> surfzoid, do you want to update mono to 2.6.1 version?
<ari-tczew> it would be nice to report bug @ bugs.debian.org
<geser> surfzoid: where did you got this .dsc? the Files line looks broken
<surfzoid> yes 2.6.1, i got it from 2.4 one
<geser> you constructed this .dsc by hand?
<ari-tczew> if you did all changes what are needs by 2.6.1, you must put "debuild -us -uc"
<ari-tczew> if built will fine, get debuild -S
<surfzoid> geser: i modify it by hand yes
<ari-tczew> lol
<surfzoid> !!
<geser> why? why not used the tools intended for it?
<surfzoid> hum, which one ?
<surfzoid> geser: i m more rpm and just discover the deb world
<ari-tczew> surfzoid, maybe you should read some articles on wiki.ubuntu.com ?
<geser> debuild -S or dpkg-buildpackage -S
<surfzoid> some gui exist for those command line tools ?
<geser> I don't know any
<surfzoid> finaly damed, the problem was only "-" rather "_" !!
<ari-tczew> surfzoid, great, but please don't handly changing dsc file in future, just use debuild ;-D
<surfzoid> yes now i know, the puzle sound like really more easy
<surfzoid> in fact, if you have existing source, the only stuff is to change the log and debuild do all the stuf :-)
<surfzoid> hum using the tool give me new error : http://pastebin.com/d52de1cc3
<surfzoid> i did something wrong or foprget something ?
<surfzoid> the funny is if i go in my source dir and do the autogen.sh all is okay
<ari-tczew> myabe someone is wrong with debian/rules?
<ari-tczew> maybe
<ari-tczew> I guess you should add autoconf patch
<surfzoid> hum where it is ?
<ari-tczew> create folder, unpack there .orig.tar.gz
<ari-tczew> and copy unpacked folder
<surfzoid> where
<ari-tczew> lol, are you in folder with mono, right?
<ari-tczew> here is *.orig.tar.gz right?
<surfzoid> yes
<ari-tczew> so, for example please create folder, e.g. call it "diff", so put in console: mkdir diff
<ari-tczew> then unpack *.orig.tar.gz with mono in diff folder
<ari-tczew> if you have unpacked orig.tar.gz, please copy it, because you need 2 folders for compare
<ari-tczew> in efects you should have in diff folder e.g. mono-2.6.1 and mono-2.6.1 (copy)
<surfzoid> oki now i see better you would like i compare the 2 dir
<ari-tczew> are you understand
<ari-tczew> yes, compare two dirs
<ari-tczew> in one dir you need to run command: autoconf
<ari-tczew> then go back and compare these dirs
<ari-tczew> cd .. && diff -pruN dir1 dir2 > autoconf.patch
<surfzoid> sorry i said a mistake, i don't have an orig tarball
<ari-tczew> just I saw in your pastebin
<ari-tczew> ehh surfzoid, you must rename to .orig.tar.gz
<ari-tczew> so, e.g.: mv mono_2.6.1.tar.gz mono_2.6.1.orig.tar.gz
<surfzoid> ha oki
<surfzoid> at the same time i see other posible mistake of the tool, my source dir is "mono-2.6.1" but the tool make an "mono_2.6.1.tar.gz" with inside "mono-2.6.1" so "_" vs "-" will make trouble ?
<ari-tczew> source dir is ok
<ari-tczew> continue work ...
<surfzoid> if i rename to .orig.tar.gz i must change that also in the dsc file ?
<ari-tczew> LOL don't change handly dsc file !
<ari-tczew> dsc will change by debuild
<ari-tczew> automatically
<surfzoid> hum weird pointer :-)
<adhorden> do not change the dsc by hand, use debuild
<surfzoid> on a side debian is stric , really amazing stric, and it permit this lol
<surfzoid> very long to build this 35 Mega of sources :D
<surfzoid> ari-tczew: i have followed you by renaming to orig.tar.gz, but of course ! :
<surfzoid> dpkg-source: error: cannot fstat file /usr/src/packages/SOURCES/mono_2.6.1.tar.gz: No such file or directory
<surfzoid> it confuse me to have checsum of file name with only tar.gz, but use an orig.tar.gz rather
<surfzoid> ari-tczew: oki, you was right, i know understand, renaming in ori.tar.gz, but lunch the tool in mono-2.6.1 dir, detect the new origi.tar.gz and adjust the dsc file :-)
<ari-tczew> exactly
<surfzoid> i just forget the step to rerun the tool :-)
<ari-tczew> as you see themselve surfzoid, changing dsc file is no sense
<ari-tczew> surfzoid, do you have patch autoconf ?
<surfzoid> no yet, now i have clean many thing, i would like to check again before
<directhex> oh lord
<directhex> anyone uploads a new mono to ubuntu, heads will roll. FYI.
<sebnerr> directhex: uhuhuhu \o/ .. what happened?
<Laney> nobody would ever sponsor it
<sebnerr> Laney: archive admin wise?
<surfzoid>  directhex : you mean, a new release of mono is now available in ubuntu 9.10 ?
<sebnerr> surfzoid: 9.10 is frozen and security upload only
<surfzoid> sebnerr there isn't something like backport ?
<sebnerr> surfzoid: yeah but hardly used (for mono)
<directhex> anything with lots of rdepends is effectively blacklisted from being backported
<directhex> things like new gcc releases or new python releases or new mono releases have too high a risk of breaking existing apps
<joaopinto> directhex, you became afraid ? :)
<surfzoid> yes, on other side you should upgrade one day :-)
<sebnerr> directhex: what about the sponsoring stuff? No auto-sync for 2.4.3? I'll choose 2.6 though, poor meebey
<surfzoid> 2.7
 * Laney is confused
<sebnerr> surfzoid: ?? there is no 2.7
<surfzoid> sebnerr mono -V
<surfzoid> Mono JIT compiler version 2.7 (
<sebnerr> surfzoid: trunk then?
<surfzoid> yep :-)
<sebnerr> surfzoid: we're talking about ubuntu versions ;)
<directhex> sebner, 2.4.3 should sync in at some point. but we're making changes to stuff which will cause breakage, and that transition really needs to be completed
<sebnerr> Laney: what's no with that: No one will sponsor it?
<directhex> sebner, i'd rather get it finished in debian then have the whole lot come into ubuntu in one go
<sebnerr> directhex: ah the -cil stuff?
<directhex> sebner, right
<directhex> sebner, and getting rid of /usr/bin/csc
<sebnerr> directhex: isn't everything with mono-csc already?
<directhex> not everything.
<sebnerr> kk
<directhex> it all *needs* to be done though
<sebnerr> directhex: I doubt meebey targets 2.6 for lucid?
<directhex> i'm still waiting on meebey to give me the goahead to break stuff like gtk#
<directhex> sebner, meebey intends to taregt 2.4.x for squeeze (march freeze) with 2.6 in experimental
<sebnerr> so, ubuntu too. Ic
<directhex> sebner, 2.4.x is upstream's LTS branch
<directhex> surfzoid, 2.6 will likely appear in a PPA in january. probably
<surfzoid> thanks, but i m trying now to build it at OBS :-)
<surfzoid> i just have an compile error
<sebnerr> directhex: does meebey already know what changes with 2.6? Anything important to mind?
<directhex> sebner, 4.0 classlib
<sebnerr> directhex: that means?
<directhex> not sure yet. it means *something* though. new corlib, new compiler, etc
<surfzoid> directhex: have you got few minutes to help : https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=Mono&project=home%3Asurfzoid%3ADebianUbuntu%3AMono    ?
<surfzoid> please :-)
<sebnerr> directhex: uhh, I smell another transition + breakage :P
<directhex> sebner, if everything uses mono-devel and -cil-dev packages, then it should be rebuild-only
<directhex> surfzoid, looks like your .install files need massaging. there's only 99 of them to tweak. chop chop.
<sebnerr> directhex: heh, we'll see
<directhex> dh_install: libmono-c5-1.0-cil missing files (debian/tmp/usr/lib/mono/gac/Mono.C5/1.0.*/), aborting
<surfzoid> directhex: the build of the deb is different of ./autogen.sh && make && make install ??
<surfzoid> directhex: you mean, i need to change all the 99 files one by one, ?
<surfzoid> the problem is more here , no : ERROR: ld.so: object 'libfakeroot-sysv.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
<directhex> surfzoid, you certainly need to change libmono-c5-1.0-cil.install since that's where it's bailing out
<directhex> surfzoid, no, libfakeroot messages aren't real errors & should be ignored.
<surfzoid> and the .so missing is not so important ?
<surfzoid> oki
<surfzoid> directhex: libmono-c5-1.0-cil.install is a file generated or provided by mono source ?
<directhex> surfzoid, it's in debian/ along with 188 other files/folders which make up the mono source package
<directhex> closer to 229 including patches etc
<surfzoid> directhex: not sur, but, in Mono2.6 the Net1.0 stuff was dropped ?
<directhex> i thought that was happening in 2.8 not 2.6
<directhex> but i could be wrong
<surfzoid> directhex: in fact i m complety sure it is dropped in 2.7
<sebnerr> directhex: sounds familiar
<surfzoid> i had the problem last week with the trunk version
<bjsnider> siretart, ping
<cratylus> is there a place, either in ubuntu or debian where one can filter the list of packages to see which source format their in (either command line or on the web somewhere). i'm trying to find examples of 3.0 (quilt) formatted packages to study
<MTecknology> cratylus: now there's different formats I need to learn? :(
<cratylus> MTecknology, tell me about it. apparently there's a new craze every now and then
<cratylus> you don't HAVE to change formats as the others are supported, though
<MTecknology> cratylus: I'm just learning basics when I have a little spare time; I'll get it eventually
<cratylus> MTecknology, i'm in the same boat right now. so many docs to read!
<joaopinto> I coudn't find much documentation about debsrcr3.0 either, the best resource I could find was man dpkg-source
<cratylus> joaopinto, yep, i'm basically using that and Hertzog's doc. along with apt-get source for such packages whose debian/source/format file has "3.0 (quilt)" as it's content
<cratylus> found a few so far
<crimsun> I remember there are some posts on planet Debian about it
<crimsun> a few people have blogged about "converting" to it
<cratylus> it's still just getting started with 466 packages to date: http://upsilon.cc/~zack/stuff/dpkg-v3/
<cratylus> i think i found the answer to my earlier question about seeing which packages have that format. seems the ultimate debian database has a format field one can query: http://udd.debian.org/schema/udd.html#public.view.all-sources
<tritium> I'm trying to use requestsync to request the syncing of ng-spice-rework (20-1) from Debian testing.  I'm sshed into my server, performed the manage-credentials step, but am now geting an error "Could not find cookie file for Launchpad...", and so on.  Must I ssh -X and run firefox graphically to complete the requestsync?
<ScottK> tritium: Or use the email option
<ScottK> tritium: Or copy the cookie from another box
<tritium> ScottK: the email option, meaning don't use the "--lp" switch?  I've tried that.
<ScottK> Yes.  That shouldn't need the cookie
<geser> tritium: which ubuntu-dev-tools version do you have installed on your server?
<tritium> geser: 0.72, on a jaunty box
<tritium> geser: any ideas?
<geser> looking at the code from this version
<tritium> Thanks.
<tritium> Let me try copying ~/.cache/lp_credentials/ubuntu-dev-tools-write_public.txt to ~/.lpcookie.txt.
<geser> this version still used the firefox cookie at some places
<tritium> Well, I can wait until I get home in January.
<geser> .lpcookie.txt is the LP cookie from firefox
<tritium> No luck with that.
<geser> if it doesn't exist, it tries to find it in cookies.sqlite or cookies.txt from firefox
<geser> try copying it from your desktop and placing in a location matching ~/.mozilla/*/*/cookies.sqlite
<geser> requestsync (or more precisely a module from u-d-t) should extract it from there and store it in ~/.lpcookie.txt for future use
<tritium> Try copying ~/.cache/lp_credentials/ubuntu-dev-tools-write_public.txt to ~/.mozilla/*/*/cookies.sqlite?
<geser> no, your firefox cookie database
<geser> scp ~/.mozilla/*/*/cookie.sqlite server:~/.mozilla/foo/bar/cookies.sqlite
<tritium> Oh, I see.  Well, I'm on my wife's MacBook.  Let me see if that works.
<geser> or wherever the firefox cookie database is for you
<tritium> geser: perhaps I'll just file a bug on Launchpad, following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess.
<tritium> I appreciate your help trying to get it working.
<geser> that's also a way (if it's easier for you)
<tritium> OK, I'm getting somewhere.  Now it's not complaining about the cookie, just about $DEBEMAIL.
<geser> export DEBEMAIL="your@mail.address"
<tritium> yep, thanks
<tritium> It appears to possibly be working...
<tritium> except that my gnupg key is on my desktop, whichs is turned off, not this server
<tritium> Oh well, thanks for your help!
<tritium> Have a good day, geser.
<geser> have you tried "requestsync --lp ..." to file it directly into LP and not mail it?
<tritium> Earlier, but not since fixing the cookie issue.  Let me try again.  Thanks for the reminder.
<tritium> Sweet!  Thanks, geser.
<tritium> Filed as bug 498871
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 498871 in ubuntu "Sync ng-spice-rework 20-1 (universe) from Debian testing (non-free)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/498871
<crimsun> geser: thanks for fixing requestsync
<tritium> Sweet tool!
<tritium> Hello, crimsun.
<crimsun> hi, tritium
<tritium> crimsun: I'm out here in your neck of the woods, enjoying all this snow.
<crimsun> ah, whereabouts?
<tritium> Loudon County, VA
<tritium> ~15 minutes from Dulles airport.
<crimsun> ouch
<crimsun> yeah, it has been pretty nice
<crimsun> I'm in town until Christmas Day (on assignment afterward)
<tritium> Ah, really?
<tritium> Are you far from the 20152 zip code?
<crimsun> I'm [living] in DC presently
<tritium> Ah, ok.  I knew you were in the general area.
<bddebian> Hey wait, crimsun is crimsun again?
<ScottK> Apparently
<ScottK> tritium: I'm kind of NW of DC and west of Baltimore.  Not so far away either.
<tritium> ScottK: wow!  :)
<tritium> ScottK: snowed in?
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> Driveway is shoveled, but the street isn't plowed yet.
<ScottK> I've heard the plows on the nearest main road, so there's hope.
<tritium> We arrived from NM just in time on Thursday night (early Friday morning, technically).
<tritium> I did a fair amount of shoveling this morning.
<tritium> Hey there, bddebian!
 * ScottK is waiting for the Ibuprofen to kick in.
<tritium> What ails you?
<ScottK> Back pain from the shovelling.
<tritium> Ah, but of course.
<crimsun> a few people from my complex cleared our street
<crimsun> I feel like an old man now
<bddebian> Hi tritium
<bddebian> Pfft, you guys don't know the meaning of old.. :)
<crimsun> does anyone else see abysmal response time for rmadison -uubuntu queries?
<crimsun> bah, and as soon as I say that, it returns immediately
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> crimsun: Routinetly
 * dhillon-v10 says UBUNTU IS AWESOME, especially PPA's
<ScottK> dhillon-v10: PPAs aren't Ubuntu
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, lol, but the build process it sooo easy
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, and people can easily install .deb
<ScottK> Yes, but those aren't part of Ubuntu.
<ScottK> They are built ON Ubuntu, but not part of it.
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, okay :D that was very precise
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, hey I know you, you are that person who made merge-o-matic website right
<ScottK> Nope.
<ScottK> That was Keybuk
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, ahh, I saw your last name so :D
<dhillon-v10> * irc nick
<dhillon-v10> ScottK, hey what happens to a package that has symlinks. Does it build differently from others or is it just rejected from the build queue
<crimsun> what do you mean by "has symlinks"?
<tritium> Daddy duty calls.  Talk to you later!
<crimsun> bye
<quidnunc> Is there a way to look up the information for a given GPG key ID?
<crimsun> as in "use a keyserver"?
<LLStarks> why is adobe-flashplugin used for restricted extras instead of flashplugin-installer?
<crimsun> because it's the blessed package.
<quidnunc> crimsun: Sorry? I assume it is listed on keyserver.ubuntu.com but I don't know how to go from key ID -> metainfo
<crimsun> quidnunc: depending if you've imported it locally, you can query using gnupg
<geser> quidnunc: what kind of meta-info are you looking for?
<quidnunc> geser: I want to know who it belongs to.
<quidnunc> crimsun: I'm trying to decide whether I should import it. The first question was, "Who's is it".
<geser> quidnunc: either import the key into your keyring or use the web-interface of some keyservers, e.g. http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de/
<geser> many other keyservers have a web interface too
<quidnunc> keyserver.ubuntu.com does not seem to.
<geser> yes, it does too (if you know the port)
<geser> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/
<quidnunc> geser: thanks
<quidnunc> geser: Can you search by key ID? I'm not getting any results.
<geser> sure, I does it regularly, prefix it with "0x"
<quidnunc> geser: Thanks that worked.
<quidnunc> The info for my key is blank. What is the policy for signing sources uploaded to archive.ubuntu.com?
<geser> your gpg key must be attached to your LP account
<quidnunc> geser: How can I find that out for 21B2133D?
<geser> open your LP page and look at the "OpenPGP keys" field
<quidnunc> geser: That's for my keys. This is not my key.
<geser> ah
<quidnunc> Anyway, never mind. I'm not going to import it into my keyring. I'll trust the integrity.
<Laney> I just googled for "ubuntu keyserver" and there it was
<Laney> oh you alredy got it :)
<ajmitch> actually searching on google for 'gpg 21B2133D' showed me whose key it is
<quidnunc> ajmitch: Does it? Maybe I don't understand how to read that page. Is it Steve's?
<ajmitch> yes, it looks to be a subkey of his
<quidnunc> ajmitch: Alright thanks.
<geser> quidnunc: you can also look at the signature a key has and decide on the amount of signatures, signatures from "trusted" persons, etc. if you trust this key or not
<geser> from a LP point-of-view any dev could create new gpg key (without any other signatures besides the self-signature), attach it to his LP account and use this key for signing uploads
<David-T> um.... anyone could create any number of keys and sign their own key with them... amount of signatures is not a very useful indicator
<wgrant> David-T: Right, you need to trust the signatures. That's the OpenPGP trust model.
<dhillon-v10> guys I have a real quick question: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/486903 there is already a .deb on the bluej website so what should I do there
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 486903 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Create package: BlueJ" [Wishlist,New]
<RAOF> dhillon-v10: Check out their source package; it may be a good start.
<dhillon-v10> RAOF, so what happens to the bug report, should I package it again from the source and make a new .deb for ubunut
<siretart> bjsnider: really short pong
<RAOF> dhillon-v10: You can't upload binary packages to Ubuntu, so unless they _also_ have a source package for download (this is not the same as their program source), you'll need to package it independently.
<dhillon-v10> RAOF, alright thanks so this would just be another regular package rihgt
<dhillon-v10> *right
<RAOF> dhillon-v10: Or, contact them & collaborate on brining their source package up to archive standards; it's almost certainly going to be missing some policy nicities.
<RAOF> Yes.  It's going to be just a regular package.
<dhillon-v10> RAOF, thanks :D
<dhillon-v10> RAOF, alright so what happens after the I package, where should I upload it ? REVU ?
<bjsnider> siretart, have yet another question about mplayer. somebody wrote me asking if it could play wmapro files. should the karmic version be able to?
<jcastro> RAOF: ping!
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-20
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> when would Openoffice 3.3 will be ported to 10.10 ?
<RAOF> To 10.10?  I'd guess it won't be; it's pretty big and serious.
<micahg> kaushal: there's a PPA for backports, https://launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/+archive/ppa, no guarantee on when
<RAOF> Once it (or LibreOffice) is in Natty it might get backported.
<micahg> or if for that matter
<kaushal> ok
<kunal> hello
<udienz> bug 692457
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692457 in bash (Ubuntu) "Please merge bash 4.1-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692457
<geser> udienz: why bumping the Standards-Version?
<udienz> geser: as far as i know, debian-policy is 3.9.1
<Rhonda> udienz: Yes, but it's an unneeded change
<Rhonda> Keeping diffs to a minimum helps future merges
<Rhonda> What does "enhached" mean?
<udienz> Rhonda: but someone ask me to write it at changelog
<udienz> Rhonda: i mean enhanced
<geser> udienz: we usually don't bump the Standads-Version as it's a "useless" change (it gives us no benefit, only a larger delta)
<Rhonda> udienz: If you change something, of course it has to be written in the changelog. But the thing is, you didn't need to bump the standards-version in the first place.
<Rhonda> There is no need at all to change the Standards-Version in a package coming from Debian.
<udienz> geser, Rhonda: okay i change it now
 * Rhonda . o O ( it's interesting that a package maintained by a canonical person within Debian would actually need a merge instead of a simple sync â¦ )
<udienz> :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: will we loose python 2.5 compatibility with the u-d-t change?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: no, dh_python2 arrived during default python = 2.6, supported pythons = 2.5 + 2.6 in debian
<bdrung> tumbleweed: where can i read more about dh_python2?
<tumbleweed> POX's brain / the source code. It has a basic manpage too
<tumbleweed> I guess the best palce to read about it is the debian-python list archive
<bdrung> tumbleweed: isn't there a policy document describing what you have to write into d/control, etc.?
<tumbleweed> yes, in the python package. IIRC it has some cobwebs, though.
<tumbleweed> it still says you should have XB-Python-Version, which has been deprecated
<bdrung> tumbleweed: debian has python-all (2.6.6-3+squeeze4) in unstable
<tumbleweed> whoops, 2.6.5-13
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should we use ${python:Versions}?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can we use setup.py for creating symlinks and installing the bash completion to get rid of d/links d/*.install d/*.examples?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: re python:Versions (XB-P-V) the deperecation is discussed here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2010/06/msg00211.html
<tumbleweed> re setup.py: yes, should be able to
<tumbleweed> although I'd say it's arguably more correct to install manpages, bash_completion, and examples via debhelper helpers
<udienz> Hi, i want to ask about patch. Upstream have a patch, but a patch not yet apllied at debian. can i submit a patch to ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> if there's a good reason for ubuntu to have this patch. If we can wait for it to filter down, why not wait.
<geser> udienz: yes
<udienz> ok thanks
<geser> udienz: and document it properly in the debian/changelog. it will make is easier during merging later to decide that we can drop the patch (when it got included in the new upstream release or Debian package revision)
<tumbleweed> while we are on that topic, if the package has a patch system, please put headers on the patch http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ so people can see where it came from
<udienz> tumbleweed: linke this? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/60875721/fix-one_addr.patch
<udienz> *like
<tumbleweed> udienz: that's not quite compliant ("Bug URL"), but it's better than nothing. One really wants to know if the patch came from upstream or debian, and if its been applied upstream.
<tumbleweed> err, "upstream or ubuntu"
<udienz> tumbleweed: hm.. so a patch become like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/545918/
<tumbleweed> udienz: yes, that's the way to make the next person to touch that package love you
<udienz> tumbleweed: :) thanks, i'm working at nginx for lucid now
<udienz> rr... lucid-proposed
<TeTeT> hi, there's a potential buffer overflow in opensc in universe. I took the upstream patches and applied them to Ubuntu Lucid, Maverick and Natty, see bug 692483 for details. What is the next step? Asking for sponsorship?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692483 in opensc (Ubuntu) "Buffer overflow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692483
<Bachstelze> TeTeT: subscribe ubuntu-sponsor
<geser> TeTeT: yes, you might also try to talk someone from the security team (and read the wiki page about SRUs)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: re dh_python2, before I forget. POX gave a talk at debconf on it, and those slides are probably the best current documentation.
<TeTeT> geser: isn't an SRU only for main?
<Laney> no
<TeTeT> thanks
<geser> mdeslaur: would bug 692483 qualify for a -security upload?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692483 in opensc (Ubuntu) "Buffer overflow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692483
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you have a link to those slides?
<mdeslaur> geser: sure
<mdeslaur> geser: follow the procedures here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures
<geser> TeTeT: ^^
<tumbleweed> bdrung: http://penta.debconf.org/dc10_schedule/events/570.en.html
<tumbleweed> (predates X-P-V, though)
<TeTeT> geser, mdeslaur: thanks
<TeTeT> just discovered another problem on Natty, opensc doesn't build anymore, complains about a missing symbol
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: that's listed here: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<tumbleweed> fixes obviously welcome :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: is it a final decision to move to X-P-V?
<tumbleweed> yes, python3 is only supported via X-P3-V. And that decision actually did make it into the python-policy
<bdrung> tumbleweed: merged
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: I fixed the build failure, hopefully the correct way and filed it as a patch to newly submitted bug 692571
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692571 in opensc (Ubuntu) "FTBFS natty " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692571
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: seems reasonable, please forward it to the upstream
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: is debian concered about a ftbfs for Ubuntu?
<TeTeT> concerned
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: the patch headers contain boilerplate, and when you are ready, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<tumbleweed> they will be concered about these failures, as their are the result of linker changes that Debian will make as well, after squeeze has released
<TeTeT> ok
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: oh, also: please close the bug in the changelog entry, and your debdiff contains leaked testing version-number
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: what does 'leaked testing version-number' mean?
<tumbleweed> ~tetet in the version number
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: so the debiff should just be version 0.11.13-1ubuntu3?
<tumbleweed> yes, otherwise the sponsor has to manually edit it
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: I think I'm ready, thanks for your pointers, way faster to fix it this way than via bug mail
<tumbleweed> np. We try to encourage mentorship in public, where it can benefit lurkers (and you are less likely to get bad advice). But once it hits the sponsorship queue, discussion tends to happen on the bug where other sponsors are sure to see it.
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: W: opensc: debian-changelog-line-too-long line 1
<tumbleweed> also please link the lp bug to any debian / upstraem bug you file, otherwise, you'll probably be asked if you've forwarded it or not.
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: I've not filed a debian bug, just sent an email to eric dorland directly, taking his email from the changelog
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: cool, in that case it's great if you can note that in the bug
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: fixed the too long line, thanks, will add a note on the email
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: thanks again for your help, now back to my original task on the buffer overflow fix :)
<tumbleweed> yeah, sorry, we should have rolled them into one. I only started paying attention at the FTBFS stage
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: so, all three of your patches contain two changelog entries. The stable release patches should be targeted at the -security pocket, and be versioned according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Packaging
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: the two changelog entries come from two calls of edit-patch. Found this cleaner than mixing the buffer overflow fix with the helper macro. I guess it's safe to combine them in one changelog?
<tumbleweed> yes, one changelog entry for each upload
<TeTeT> tumbleweed: I'm not sure about the version number in Maverick. It would be the same as the updated one in Natty. So according to the wiki page of versioning, should it be: 0.11.13-1ubuntu3.10.10.1 ?
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: we already have a ubuntu3 in natty (we just uploaded it) so you can use ubuntu2.1 for maverick
<tumbleweed> normally if natty had the version (say 1.2-1) as maverick, we'd uplead 1.2-1ubuntu1 to natty and 1.2-1ubuntu0.1 to maverick
<tumbleweed> if maverick had the same version as lucid, ubuntu0.10.04.1 to lucid and ubuntu0.10.10.1 to maverick
<TeTeT> ok
<TeTeT> updated the debdiff for maverick and lucid on bug 692483
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692483 in opensc (Ubuntu) "Buffer overflow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692483
<TeTeT> I'm waiting for the updated package to appear in Natty and will base another debdiff on that next
<tumbleweed> TeTeT: look good (although https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation also recommends a changelog format). I'm not a security-team member, so I can't really comment more than that.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you update your config-681693 branch?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you can't change the license of common.py without asking the previous authors.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I checked, I can.
<tumbleweed> the previous copyright statement refers to code that got moved elsewhere
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and the remaining code is from you?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i don't think that command line checking should be done in get_value
<tumbleweed> excepting the negligable bit of code remaining there. I can ask jpds if he's ok with relicensing it, but it's debatably too small to be copyrightable (depending on your jurusdiction, I guess)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: it simplifies the API (and is the same approach that devscripts uses), but it could be handled by a module-wide variable
<tumbleweed> s/wide/level
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what do you think about a config object instead of function?
<tumbleweed> I don't see it buying us that much, this isn't really an OOish problem, unless we subclass OptionParser
<tumbleweed> bdrung: branch updated.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: another question is whether it's ok to use get_value() for OptionParser's default parameter, because that affects --help
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that will generate a cyclic dependency if we allow --no-conf
<tumbleweed> bdrung: sorry, not too sure what you are saying
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i think that we should parse --no-conf with OptionParser
<tumbleweed> ok, coming up soon.
<ScottK> tumbleweed: The notion of "too small to copyright" is a myth.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: I know that's certainly the case in ZA.
<tumbleweed> (a myth, that is)
<micahg> MTecknology: once nginx is sync'd, future versions will come in automatically until Debian Import Freeze, so unless you think 0.8.53-2 is broke, it can be sync'd
<tumbleweed> btw, that code can almost certainly be removed, it's a workaround for a fixed bug in python.
<MTecknology> micahg: oh.. i had it in my head we already passed that point
<micahg> MTecknology: Dec 30
<MTecknology> alrighty, thanks   0.8.54-1 is going have to be reviewed after kartik uploads it tomorrow, but it should be ready pretty soon.
<MTecknology> oh crap... I wanted to get lal in- but i guess i'll need to get it done before 11.10
<bdrung> tumbleweed: only requestsync uses the code. maybe we should move it into requestsync and get rid of common.py completely
<tumbleweed> bdrung: removing it doesn't seem to break requestsync, when using https_proxy
<tumbleweed> and bug 94130 is fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94130 in apport (Ubuntu) "HTTPS over proxy fails" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/94130
<bdrung> tumbleweed: so we can drop it
<tumbleweed> pretty sure. The reason I put that memoize thing there is that I remembered lots of manual memoization elsewhere in u-d-t, but I haven't done anything about that yet.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what does memoize_noargs do?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: caches the value of a fuction after the first run
<tumbleweed> a generic memoization decorator would be a little more complex
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can't we create a object that runs this function on __init__?
<tumbleweed> yeah, can do
<highvoltage> I'm still getting the hang of quilt patches, what am I doing wrong here?
<highvoltage> http://paste.ubuntu.com/546070/
<ebroder> highvoltage: You need to add the file before you modify it
<ebroder> Because when you add it, quilt snapshots the old state of the file, and that's what it diffs against
<highvoltage> ebroder: ok. I'm not modifying, just adding.
<highvoltage> (and not quite sure what you meant)
<highvoltage> ah, I think I do now
<ebroder> highvoltage: Creating a file is a sort of modification of it
<highvoltage> I just got that, thanks :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: isn't the test run automatically?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: no, setup.py test isn't supported by Debhelper's python_distutils yet
<bdrung> tumbleweed: why? autotool tests are run if they exit.
<ebroder> bdrung: Because there's no way to detect if setup.py supports a test argument
<bdrung> is there a bug report requesting support?
<ebroder> bdrung: No way at present, at least
<tumbleweed> probably because it's new feature in distribute, and many many pcakages don't use it (yet?)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: r874 btw. I'm about to start bolting it into other scripts
<bdrung> tumbleweed: please let me review it before you gonna spread it everywhere
<tumbleweed> doing so :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: reviewing small changes is easier than reviewing big changes
<tumbleweed> yeah, unfortunatley there was some heavy lifting there
<ari-tczew> ScottK: what's the next step of backport procedure?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Needs time for an archive admin to look at it in New.  Let me see where it is.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I accepted the source.  It'll build now and then hit binary New again.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: thanks!
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i think you should select one of '--no-conf', '--noconf'
<bdrung> having both is inconsistent
<tumbleweed> ok, we don't need to carry other people's warts
<tumbleweed> bdrung: pushed r877
<bdrung> tumbleweed: d/rules: the for loop should be indented one tab less
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and you could pull override_dh_auto_test: into the ifeq block
<tumbleweed> ok. I suppose so.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: r879
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and the indentation?
<tumbleweed> r878
<bdrung> aha, you pushed two revisions ;)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: why do we need debian/clean?
<tumbleweed> distribute (setuptools) likes writing files in .egg-info
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and dh_python2 doesn't clean that up?
<tumbleweed> it's not dh_python2's job. If anything it's the python_distutils buildsystem's job
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can it cleaned by setup.py?
<tumbleweed> I suppose so, never seen anyone do that, hough
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i prefer having that in setup.py instead of the packaging part
<bdrung> tumbleweed: doc/ubuntu-dev-tools.5 -> as the \fIfirst\fR command\-line
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I removed that, if we are using optparse to parse them, we don't have that restriction
<ebroder> tumbleweed: Is parse_devscripts_config just stripping quotes?
<tumbleweed> ebroder: yes, do we really want to match bash variable assignment syntax exactly?
<ebroder> tumbleweed: I wonder if you want to use ' '.join(shlex.split(m.group(2)) or something
<ebroder> Otherwise you'll get caught by screw cases like "foo"'bar' or whatever
<tumbleweed> ebroder: seesm reasonable
<ebroder> tumbleweed: And why use a regex instead of something like .split('=')?
<tumbleweed> although the ' '.join() bit is dodgy, because foo=bar baz is interpreted as running baz (in sh)
<ebroder> tumbleweed: Hmm, good point
<tumbleweed> but we currently have that problem
<ebroder> tumbleweed: On the terrible ideas front, you could parse the output of `bash -c '. /etc/devscripts.conf; . ~/.devscripts; set'` :)
<tumbleweed> eek :) no, shlex is exactly what I need, thank
<tumbleweed> ebroder: the re saves on having to detect comments, and strip everywhere
<bdrung> tumbleweed: backportpackage.1: it's not clear with env of BACKPORTPACKAGE_BUILDER and UBUNTUTOOLS_BUILDER is preferred if both are provided
<ebroder> tumbleweed: I feel like ubu_email is way too automagical. I can set DEBEMAIL='Evan Broder <evan@ebroder.net>', but it'll only parse an e-mail address out of that?
<ebroder> Do people do that? And expect that behavior?
<tumbleweed> ebroder: see the linked bug for it, somebody did expect that, yes
<ebroder> If I set DEBEMAIL to that, I'd be expecting it to guess both a name and an e-mail address, not only one
<tumbleweed> so what if you've set DEBFULLNAME too?
<ebroder> Then I'm setting myself up for broken behavior of some sort
<tumbleweed> hehe. Actually that behavior matches devscripts
<ebroder> I'm less concerned with what happens if I set both variables, because clearly something screwy will happen in that case. But only setting one in that form seems more likely
 * ScottK routinely only has DEBEMAIL set with just the email address.
<ScottK> Since the system name on my account is correct, it just uses that in devscripts
<tumbleweed> hmm, I didn't test fully enough, it doesn't quite match devscripts. DEBFULLNAME="Name <a@name.org>" DEBEMAIL="Email <b@email.com>" dch => Name <a@name.org> <b@email.com>
<ebroder> tumbleweed: Like I said, it's clear what you do if you set DEBFULLNAME="Name" and DEBEMAIL="b@email.com". And (I think) it's clear what you should do if you set DEBEMAIL="Name <b@email.com>". I think those are the only specs that matter
<ebroder> If something screwy happens in any cases other than those, I think it's the user's fault, and not our problem to work around
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we should have testcases for the two use cases mentioned above
<tumbleweed> OK, and both specs for UBUEMAIL
<ScottK> ebroder: I think DEBEMAIL set to an email address and DEBFULLNAME is a common use case and should be supported.
<ScottK> ... DEBFULLNAME not set ...
<tumbleweed> ScottK: already handling that fine
<tumbleweed> (although I suppose this discussion is about handling too much)
<ebroder> ScottK: Err, yeah. And any combination of other variables. What I'm saying I *don't* think we should have any sort of support for is setting multiple variables to Foo <bar@baz.com>. One of the variables should just win in that case
<ScottK> OK
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i don't think that we should always have UBUNTUTOOLS_*, because some values could be script specific
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yes, I was assuming I'd get there, but hadn't hit any scripts needing that yet
<bdrung> tumbleweed: get_value(self, key, default=None, foobar=True, compat_keys=[]):
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and a good name for foobar
<tumbleweed> package_wide
<tumbleweed> another option is to have a list of blessed package-wide variables
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that's better
<bdrung> tumbleweed: add this testcase: PREFIX_KEY in config file should win against UBUNTUTOOLS_KEY in the environment
 * tumbleweed now has a reasonable todo list again :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "def getBuilder(builder='pbuilder'):" -> "def getBuilder(builder):"
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we don't want to set the default in two places
<tumbleweed> ok, it can pull it out of defaults.
<bdrung> yes
<bdrung> tumbleweed: test_any_environment_precedence is wrong
<bdrung> PREFIX_KEY should always win against UBUNTUTOOLS_KEY
<tumbleweed> my reasoning for that was for variables like BUILDER, but I suppose we are deprecating those (and not documenting them any more)
<bdrung> did we had BUILDER?
<tumbleweed> hmm, why did I think we did
<tumbleweed> ebroder: r883, toned down ubu_email magic
<bdrung> tumbleweed: please let me know once you processed your toto
<tumbleweed> will do
<ebroder> tumbleweed: Where are the name and email args to ubu_email supposed to come from? Comamnd-line args?
<bdrung> s/toto/todo list and have the branch updated for the next cycle of review/
<tumbleweed> ebroder: yes, i.e. ack-sync
 * ebroder nods
<tumbleweed> bdrung: is it plausible that if something appears in defaults it's package-wide?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes
<tumbleweed> yeah, I think we want defaults for all package-wide variables, and other defaults belong in thier scripts anyway
<ebroder> tumbleweed: I still think it's weird that you ignore components of A <b@c> style variable values. Let me try to sketch up what I think it should do...
<tumbleweed> ebroder: e.g. UBUEMAIL=joe@ubuntu.com DEBEMAIL="Joe <joe@debian.org>"
<ebroder> No, I'm thinking of if just DEBEMAIL="Joe <joe@debian.org>" is set. You'll extrapolate an e-mail address out of that, but drop the name
<ebroder> tumbleweed: I would do something like http://pastebin.com/9vmdthFT for that inner loop
<ebroder> That will have slightly screwy behavior if you do something like UBUEMAIL=joe@ubuntu.com DEBEMAIL="Joe <joe@debian.org>", but I think you're setting yourself up for that if you set your variables up that screwily
<tumbleweed> ebroder: with your loop, DEBEMAIL overwrites UBUEMAIL
<ebroder> (That being said, I think it'll still do what I would consider to be the "right" thing - take the e-mail from UBUEMAIL and the name from DEBEMAIL)
<ebroder> No, it would only overwrites the name component
<ebroder> Oh, hmm. One moment to make a slight tweak
<tumbleweed> also, you can't write to locals, but I know what you mean :)
<ebroder> tumbleweed: http://pastebin.com/G1ChmX7Y
<ebroder> tumbleweed: You can totally write to locals
<ebroder> http://pastebin.com/srVSBq8J
<ebroder> (It's terrifying that you can do so, and I don't really encourage it, but it can be done)
<tumbleweed> sorry, what I meant is, writing to locals won't affect the same variable outside th eloop, IIRC
<ebroder> tumbleweed: I don't see why it wouldn't. Python doesn't have a concept of scope at any finer granularity than the function level
<tumbleweed> I'm pretty sure I tried it
<tumbleweed> oh, and "Note The contents of this dictionary should not be modified; changes may not affect the values of local and free variables used by the interpreter"
<ebroder> Maybe just store the values you want to return in a dict and manipulate that, then?
<tumbleweed> or spend an extra three lines of code :)
<ebroder> Or that
<tumbleweed> ebroder: r885 has your version
<ebroder> tumbleweed: Thanks. I like that logic much better
<ebroder> tumbleweed: Do we care about backporting u-d-t to Python 2.4? If not, can you use the named fields for pwd.getpwuid?
<ebroder> (e.g. pwd.getpwuid(os.getuid()).pw_name)
<tumbleweed> we declare ourselves as >= 2.6, so sure
<bdrung> tumbleweed: >= 2.5
<ebroder> I find those much more informative than [0], etc.
<tumbleweed> err, that, yes
<tumbleweed> bdrung: r888 meets everything we've been discussing, short of changes to setup.py
<ScottK> Last LTS has 2.6, so you may as well got 2.6+ if it's convenient.
<ScottK> got/go
<tumbleweed> yeah, no real need to yet
<bdrung> tumbleweed: my proposal was "def getBuilder(builder):"
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the caller will have already pulled the config value if not passed via command line
<tumbleweed> ok
<tumbleweed> bdrung: clean is acknowledged as a bug in distribute https://bitbucket.org/tarek/distribute/issue/122/setuppy-clean-should-delete-sourcestxt
<akoskm> hi!
<akoskm> does it possible to create a link to a library what I'm installing as build-dependency but I have to use it under different a name?
<akoskm> that actual file is /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/phonon_backend/phonon_gstreamer.so, but the package what I'm building tries to find it as libphonon_gstreamer.so
<RAOF> akoskm: phonon_gstreamer is a phonon plugin, right?  What are you packaging such that it wants to link against a plugin?
<akoskm> RAOF, qtjambi-4.7
<RAOF> And what *is* it?  âº
<akoskm> java binding for Qt.
<RAOF> Ah.
<RAOF> Um, why would that link to a phonon plugin?
<RAOF> I was very much under the impression that phonon abstracted the backends away.
<RAOF> Indeed, if it *doesn't* why would you bother using gstreamer through phonon rather than just gstreamer directly?
<akoskm> there is module called multimedia. since we aren't implemented the modularized building yet I have all the libraries installed
<akoskm> and this multimedia modules requires the phonon plugin
<ebroder> RAOF: Maybe Java has limited dlopen'ing capabilities or something?
<RAOF> ebroder: But java wouldn't be dlopening, would it?  It'd just be libphonon-ing, and libphonon can certainly dlopen its plugins.
<ebroder> Oh, good point
<RAOF> akoskm: Anyway, it sounds like the package bulid system is wrong :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ./backportpackage --no-conf ubuntu-dev-tools 2>&1 | pastebinit
<bdrung> http://pastebin.com/NRppV9Ax
<akoskm> RAOF, what do you mean by the package build system is wrong? Do we need to change our reference from libphonon_gstreamer.so to phonon_gstreamer.so ?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks
<RAOF> akoskm: It sounds like something is trying to do -lphonon_gstreamer, which will look for libphonon_gstreamer.so.  That's incorrect.
<RAOF> As the file is phonon_gstreamer.so :)
<RAOF> akoskm: At this point it might be useful to pastebin relevant build logs and makefiles.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i have more:
<bdrung> Set more values in setup.py for egg info?
<bdrung> backportpackage: WORKDIR not documented
<bdrung> should we move ubuntutools/test/* to test/*?
<bdrung> UPDATE_BUILDER not in ubuntu-dev-tools(5)
<bdrung> backportpackage.1: CONFIGURATION VARIABLES not sorted alphabetical
<tumbleweed> our egg info is relatively unimportant, as don't care much about non-deb distribution
<tumbleweed> Python test suites should generally be within the code's namespace, and distributed with the source code
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the tests should be in the installed binary package?
<tumbleweed> that's generally what's done
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i see no reason for putting in the binary
<bdrung> *it
<tumbleweed> I assume the reason for it is that users may want to run the test suite if they suspect misbehavior. I don't know much about the history of this.
<ebroder> I think it's a good idea to leave it in, if the test suite does run successfully when it's installed (I've seen installed test suites that will only run from a source checkout)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: three point left
<bdrung> ebroder: do you want to review tumbleweed's branch too?
<bdrung> s/point/points/
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I'm dealing with two of those. The sorting in backportpackage matches the configuration options. I suppose there's no harm in sorting them alphabetically.
<ebroder> bdrung: Sure, but I can't now
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "Boolean." is not specific enough. true/false, 0/1, yes/no?
<tumbleweed> ok. Should probably improve boolean handling anyway.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do we want a global workdir variable?
<tumbleweed> that would require a global default workdir policy
<tumbleweed> (which is a reasonable thing to have)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i propose the behaviour of backportpackage
<bdrung> /tmp/scriptname-XXXXXXX
<tumbleweed> works for me
<bdrung> defaults = {..., "WORKDIR": None}
<ebroder> behavior of backportpackage> +1
<udienz> micahg: are you there?
<micahg> udienz: yep
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we should define this rule: UBUNTUTOOLS_* variables are only allowed if at least two script uses them
<udienz> micahg: from latest merge, both patch already apllied at upstream
<bdrung> tumbleweed: (which will be the case for those four variables)
<udienz> but not in natty
<tumbleweed> bdrung: sounds good, I'll add a comment stating that
<micahg> udienz: right, so we need them in natty before they can go into lucid-proposed
<udienz> micahg: ok, so i can proposed both patch to natty now?
<micahg> udienz: so I was told 0.8.54 will be in Debian soon, I suggest talking to MTecknology about any other patch you'd like to have SRUd so that it can get in through Debian
<micahg> udienz: since we just sync'd nginx and have active Debian maintainers, I'd prefer the patches to go through Debian
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i will go to bed soon. if you address the remaining points before, i will do the merge before laying down.
<micahg> udienz: MTecknology is part of the Debian team for nginx I believe
<udienz> micahg: okey, thats mean only one patch is not apllied yet in natty (i asumsed id 0.8.54 is landed in natty)
<micahg> udienz: no, 0.8.53-2
<udienz> micahg: yup, MTecknology is debian team for nginx
<micahg> but 0.8.54 should be coming soon
<tumbleweed> bdrung: r895. I'm going to make a fair amount of noise in trunk when I add support script by script, then.
<micahg> udienz: so, just coordinate with him about the other patch so it lands in natty with 0.8.54-1 and you should be fine
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-21
<bdrung> tumbleweed: r894: you need to adjust backportpackage
<udienz> micahg: ok, he ask me to wait at bug 692087
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692087 in nginx (Ubuntu) "Sync nginx 0.8.53-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692087
<micahg> udienz: I think that has 2 of the patches
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks, pushed. BTW please use --author when landing branches
<tumbleweed> oh, I suppose that was debcommit
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes (debcommit)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "debcommit --author"?
<tumbleweed> no, it doesn't support that, although I remember requesting it at soem point :)
<micahg> udienz: he suggests waiting for 0.8.54-1 which should have all the patches
<micahg> udienz: also, why are you adding the regression-proposed tag?  That means that package in -proposed regressed functionality
<udienz> micahg: hm.. i think it can be used if we proposed SRU.. okay tahs i'll remove it
<micahg> udienz: an SRU is proposed by clicking Nominate for Release (if you still can), adding a debdiff and subscribing -sponsors, or proposing a merge into an lp:ubuntu/ branch and being clear about which release it targets
<udienz> micahg: ok thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: merged
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks. Just noticed I forgot to remove the requestsync import. fixed.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: now you can work on all packages integrating config.py ;)
<tumbleweed> yeah, hopefully not too many hurdles on the way... (and I don't run out of steam)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i have these things on the todo list:
<bdrung> improve debian/copyright
<bdrung> backportpackage{,.1}: sort command line args alphabetical
<bdrung> support BACKPORTPACKAGE_UPLOAD
<bdrung> sponsor-patch: support config.py and add UPDATE_BUILDER and LPINSTANCE support
<bdrung> syncpackage: use ubu_email()
<ebroder> bdrung: The sorting order on backportpackage's arguments was very deliberate
<tumbleweed> yeah, I tend to go for logical orderings, too.
<ebroder> And BACKPORTPACKAGE_UPLOAD is difficult because I still dont' think that setting it should result in always automatically uploading - I think uploading should be an opt-in operation
<tumbleweed> copyright improvements probably needs tweaks in many files headers
<ebroder> (I will grant that using optparse's option groups in backportpackage could help)
<bdrung> ebroder: yeah, group them to make the logical order obvious
<MTecknology> udienz: hm?
 * tumbleweed heads to bed
<bdrung> tumbleweed: copyright improvements means that d/copyright needs to be more detailed
<tumbleweed> bdrung: in that case, it should be automatically generated (to have any hope of maintainability), which means we need to help licencecheck
<bdrung> tumbleweed: this screams for writing a helping tool placed in ubuntu-dev-tools ;)
<MTecknology> udienz: oh- nvm
<bdrung> tumbleweed: there are probably scripts floating around
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the problem of the current d/copyright: according to it i have a copyright on ubuntutools/test/*
<tumbleweed> yeah, I've seen some around. I wrote one (that generated most of the current file), but accidently lost it in the bzr mess you witnessed :)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I don't really have a problem with that. it's more descriptive than it was. When I package things I tend to have the copyright as "The $name authors", except for the files they obviously got from outside the project
<tumbleweed> otherwise debian/copyright becomes a disaster zone
<bdrung> tumbleweed: interesting point
<tumbleweed> anyway, I'm still here, /me goes
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we should extent wrap-and-sort to support dep5 d/copyright files
<bdrung> tumbleweed: bug #692809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692809 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[wrap-and-sort] support debian/copyright in DEP-5 format" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692809
<udienz> MTecknology: hi, sorry for delay reply
<dnivra> hello. i am trying to package a new upstream version and would like to know should the entire upstream change log be included in debian/changelog ?
<ebroder> dnivra: No, the upstream changelog is for upstream changes. debian/changelog is just for changes within the packaging
<dnivra> ebroder, okay. well the upstream fixes a bug in ubuntu. so i just can mention it as a sub-point?
<ebroder> dnivra: Yeah, that's basically the exception to not putting upstream changes in debian/changelog :)
<ebroder> I was just about to get to that
<dnivra> ebroder, does this look okay http://paste.ubuntu.com/546175/ ?
<dnivra> that's just what I am adding. i have copied the changelog from the previous version and adding it to that.
<ebroder> dnivra: Doesn't seem particularly problematic. Although I would mention that Ubuntu doesn't use priority in the changelog
<ebroder> Oh wait - is that supposed to be a Debian BTS bug closer or a Launchpad bug closer?
<micahg> ebroder: also, it should be LP: #XXXXXX to close a bug in launchpad, Closes: #XXXXX is for Debian
<micahg> oops
<micahg> dnivra: ^^
<dnivra> launchpad closer.
<dnivra> thanks for that! did that.
<dnivra> well dch -i gave me a standard template with the urgency and so edited it :). will revert to the default.
<dnivra> one more question there wouldn't be any problems if i just copy debian/control from old version to new version right?
<micahg> dnivra: you should generally just copy the whole debian dir or just use uscan and uupdate if there's a watch file
<dnivra> and i am packaging subversion so that is a single binary right?
<dnivra> micahg, okay. copied the entire debian directory.
<micahg> dnivra: you don't need to close that bug for natty since it was already fix in natty with 1.6.12dfsg-2
<dnivra> micahg, the bug wasn't opened for natty at all i think.
<micahg> dnivra: the Fix Released task is for the development release (natty in this case)
<dnivra> micahg, so should i retain 1.6.12 as version number since natty hasn't incremented the version number?
<micahg> dnivra: no, the version should reflect the upstream version, but the upstream tarball needs to be cleaned
<dnivra> micahg, cleaned? in the sense?
<micahg> dnivra: made dfsg compliant or at least ufsg compliant
<micahg> dnivra: are you packaging 1.6.15?
<dnivra> micahg, no i am packaging 1.6.13 now. i thought i'll start making a patch to the security issue.
<micahg> dnivra: well, 1.6.15 is out according to Debian's watch file, the security debdiffs are probably more important than a new upstream version right now in any case
<micahg> dnivra: also, the version in natty already has the security patch for 1.6.12
<dnivra> micahg, yeah i did check the upstream version. i did comment on the launchpad bug page too. thought i shouldn't waste time if it is a security bug.
<dnivra> micahg, so you think maybe i should just backport it from 1.6.12 in natty?
<micahg> dnivra: that's the only way :)
<dnivra> micahg, only way? sorry didn't get you? why not package the latest source?
<micahg> dnivra: we generally don't take new versions in stable releases unless it's in -backports
<dnivra> micahg, ubuntu policy eh :). not very familiar with that. i know a bit about development release cycle; that's about it.
<micahg> !sru | dnivra
<ubottu> dnivra: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<micahg> dnivra: although, you're actually looking for this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation
<dnivra> micahg, yeah i went through the above link.
<dnivra> micahg, guess i didn't notice the "make only minimal changes" part :).
<micahg> :)
<dnivra> isn't it enough to download the orig.tar.gz, diff.gz and .dsc file from lauchpad. or should i download the latest bzr branch?
<micahg> dnivra: up to you which tools  you work better with
<udienz> dnivra: i user grab-merge from ubuntu-dev-tools
<udienz> dnivra: and i don't need to latest branch
<micahg> dnivra: take a look at pull-lp-source in ubuntu-dev-tools, you can get the natty and maverick builds
<dnivra> udienz, grab-merge will automatically download the natty packages?
<dnivra> micahg, will do. thanks!
<micahg> dnivra: no, grab-merge is for merging from Debian
<dnivra> oh okay. don't think debian is patching this one. let me check once more.
<micahg> dnivra: Debian patched it already, that's why it's fixed in natty :)
<udienz> dnivra: ow.. sorry if you want to packaging SRU
<dnivra> micahg, oh okay! i don't remember clearly :). was all sleepy when i checked on this today morning at about 5:30 :)
<dnivra> udienz, knowledge never hurt. i never knew you could do that. thanks!
<dnivra> one question does grab-merge download the latest development version? or latest stable version?
<micahg> dnivra: grab-merge grabs from devel release and debian unstable
<evaluate> hello
<udienz> dnivra: grab-merge downloaded latest debian and latest ubuntu
<evaluate> any tip on how I could solve a "could not read symbols" error in natty? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/60988724/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.clipit_1.3.9-1ppa1natty1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dnivra> udienz, micahg okay. thanks a lot!
<evaluate> is it the order in which I pass the flags? I can't really explain this... :-\
<udienz> evaluate: what's package?
<udienz> fbfs?
<evaluate> udienz, ^^
<evaluate> no, it's a PPA I have un launchpad, I pasted the link to the buildlog in my previous reply
<evaluate> s/un/on/
<micahg> evaluate: PPA packaging help is in #ubuntu-packaging unless you're staging for the archive
<evaluate> micahg, ok :-)
<dholbach> good morning!
<geser> dholbach: is it a bug on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers that MOTUs don't have any voting rights?
<dholbach> geser, yes
<dholbach> geser, I think we should simplify this document a lot - there's too much repetition in there - instead it could talk about "this is what ~ubuntu-dev people are" and then just explain differences
<udienz> dholbach: thanks for review my merge branch and merge packages. both merge already submit again
<dholbach> udienz, you could try to ask for another review in #ubuntu-desktop - I was merely stating the obvious, they know much better to review gtkrc changes :)
<dholbach> thanks a lot for your hard work - I noticed you've been doing a lot of stuff in the last time
<udienz> dholbach: :) right. i spend more time this week. okay i'll ask ubuntu-desktop
<dholbach> excellent, thanks a lot
<highvoltage> good morning
<udienz> morning highvoltage
<akoskm> RAOF, I managed to build it with pbuilder, thank you for your suggestions
<udienz> brung: around?
<udienz> rrr
<udienz> bdrung: around?
<udienz> typos
<geser> udienz: use tab-completion
<geser> if your irc client supports it
<udienz> geser: hehe, i use pidgin
<geser> pidgin doesn't support it for irc?
<udienz> geser: supported, but wow i don't know this feature. new knowledge
<udienz> geser: i write a changelog at here http://paste.ubuntu.com/546289/, it's coreect?
<udienz> rr correct?
<geser> I don't know the current delta, but it looks ok so far
<BlackZ> udienz: is it worth merging bash? currently most of the changes in the latest package in Debian unstable are already applied in our last Ubuntu version..
<udienz> BlackZ: not all, sudo hint not apllied at Debian
<tumbleweed> geser: [u-d-t] lpapicache's metaclass approach makes it tricky to use staging, as it needs the lp server name at import time. I'm doing this hack: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/config-681693/revision/904 (requestsync:78)
<BlackZ> udienz: I mean: is it worth merging a new version from Debian unstable? currently our last version of the package in Ubuntu already has most of the changes applied to the last version of the package in Debian
<udienz> BlackZ: hm.. i think it is capable, but its better when it sync
<BlackZ> udienz: it doesn't mean we have to drop _all_ of our currently Ubuntu delta
<BlackZ> udienz: I'd wait for a new upstream release and/or a new Debian package revision containing importat change(s)
<udienz> BlackZ: hm.... whats the mean "important?"
<udienz> bug?
<udienz> BlackZ: sorry, if i ask about "important" but i'm really not understant with "important" criteria
<BlackZ> udienz: yes, a bug fixed is an example
<TeTeT> how can I tell a package to use the debian/patches before building? In karmic and beyond it works automagically, but hardy's package has had no such directory
<geser> v3 src package?
<geser> tumbleweed: set ubuntutools.lp.service='staging' before you import the lpapicache module (http://paste.ubuntu.com/546304/)
<tumbleweed> geser: that's what I'm doing
<tumbleweed> it gets messy, but I can't think of a better fix
<bdrung> udienz: now
<geser> the other option would be to remove the resource_type checking and trust the dev to pass the right object but IMHO that's worse
<udienz> bdrung: yup
<tumbleweed> geser: or normalize the URLS / query where we are connected to before comparing resource_type
<geser> tumbleweed: right, one could use 'resource_type_link' from the Launchpad object to deduce the service-root and use this and build the resource type during runtime
<geser> tumbleweed: should I prepare a commit with this change so you can merge it into your branch?
<tumbleweed> I can land the requestsync changes in trunk anytime, although bdrung will probably want to look at them first
<geser> tumbleweed: what do you think of using the launchpadlib.Launchpad() class directly in lpapicache and let it set-up the token if necessary?
<geser> that would also have the benefit that all tokens are stored in the same location (currently manage-credentials stores them in a different location)
<tumbleweed> geser: did you see the bugs about the launchpadlib 1.8.0 api breakage? login api changes are afoot
<geser> tumbleweed: no, where?
<tumbleweed> bug 686690. Sorry must run. chat later.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 686690 in launchpadlib "1.8.0 breaks login_with() API compat with existing credentials files, and forces keyrings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686690
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you can push things directly to trunk if you won't introduce regression (trunk should be always usable/releasable). big changes or new features should use merge requests.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i will review the changes in both cases
<bdrung> tumbleweed: for every bug that is reported, we should create a testcase if possible
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can we add a basic test for every script that runs "script --help" or similar to check there are grave bugs in the option parsing
<bdrung> ?
<geser> bdrung: how would a possible test-case for bug 693060 look like?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693060 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "lpapicache metaclasses make using staging messy" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693060
<bdrung> geser: we need two types of testcases: one that is run on the build and one that needs to be run manually with online access
<bdrung> geser: we could use staging for doing the second type of tests
<hakermania> Hey...
<geser> bdrung: what's the minimum supported python version for u-d-t?
<bdrung> geser: >= 2.5
<geser> ok, so no usage of str.format()
<geser> bdrung: when do you except that we can bump it to >= 2.6?
<bdrung> geser: once 2.6 is the default in unstable
<geser> so after the next Debian release?
<bdrung> geser: probably
<tumbleweed> geser: thanks
<tumbleweed> sorry, I got caught with some nasty packet loss on my DSL line 15 minutes before I had to go out to dinner.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you broke sponsor-patch. now i have to migrate it to use config.py
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yay :/
<tumbleweed> bdrung: broken in trunk?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes
<bdrung> sponsor-patch: Error: Unsupported builder specified: None. Only pbuilder, pbuilder-dist and sbuild are supported.
<tumbleweed> oh, I saw it was passing an option, I didn't check if that option could be None
<tumbleweed> s/option/argument/
<bdrung> tumbleweed: don't worry. i will fix it.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: shouldn't --lpinstance have an short option, too?
<tumbleweed> I removed th eshort option, because it's really not some thing people are going to use much
<bdrung> tumbleweed: except for testcases
<tumbleweed> (but I'm overjoyed to have it, testing was a pain in the past)
<tumbleweed> ebroder: your script, any opinion?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: it had -l
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ack-sync has a -l that means something else
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ack-sync doesn't count, because it's not installed by default (should become part of sponsor-patch)
<tumbleweed> is that lvm root directory option not something we are going to want elsewhere?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: alternative -i
<tumbleweed> bdrung: sure. I can do that
<bdrung> tumbleweed: but i would prefer -l
<bdrung> tumbleweed: looking at the --lvm option, i am not sure if we really want that option (can't we determine that directly?)
<tumbleweed> ok, I've made my case and I'm happy to restore it. re --lvm, yeah one would assume so
<ebroder> bdrung: Sorry, what's going on? This is -l vs. just --lpinstance?
<tumbleweed> ebroder: I renamed --launchpad to --lpinstance to match the variables we are using
<ebroder> tumbleweed: Ok, I guess. Is that consistent with other scripts that have that sort of option?
<bdrung> ebroder: --lpinstance is a better name than --launchpad, because requestsync uses --lp whit a different meaning
<ebroder> bdrung: Ok, sure
<tumbleweed> I also dropped -l, but bdrung wants it back.
<tumbleweed> grr, my DSL modem is handling this summer heat worse than I am
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and i tried to build an igloo today :)
<ebroder> Yeah, I've got no strong opinions on that one. I'm honestly not entirely sure that having a --lpinstance option for backportpackage makes sense. Can you even make interesting soyuz changes on staging?
<tumbleweed> good point
<ebroder> I probably added it because the last script I wrote was backport-helper for u-archive-tools, which makes malone queries. So it was useful to use staging for testing
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed my fix. please review it
<tumbleweed> bdrung: nice. missed a comma in SEE ALSO in the manpage :)
<tumbleweed> btw, done ack-sync and grab-attachments in my branch
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed comma
<hakermania> Hey,,,,, anybody willing to review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch ? Thx :))
<bdrung> tumbleweed: now i know who stole my comma ^. :D
<tumbleweed> heh
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ack-sync isn't work getting config support (it should be merged into sponsor-patch)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I know, which is why I didn't spend much time on it.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can't you create one branch per updated script?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that makes reviewing easier
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I can, I was just being lazy.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: is your branch ready for the merge?
<tumbleweed> sure
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-22
<geser> bdrung: was the only reason you changed the lp: #xxx in debian/changelog to LP to look equal to the other entries? (u-d-t commit 874)
<bdrung> geser: yes
<bdrung> geser: should i setup a daily build of ubuntu-dev-tools?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ^
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah why not (now that we have a test suiet, that'd be great)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the question is where who should own the PPA?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ubuntu-dev?
<tumbleweed> that doesn't sound ideal. I have no problem with you owning it, otherwise a dedicated team?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: didicated team? proposals?
<tumbleweed> udt-dailies / udt-developers
<find> do u know what can i join ubuntu term?
<ari-tczew> find: join what?
<find> translate
<dpm> find, which language do you want to translate into?
<dpm> you can find the team for your language here:
<dpm> https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/ubuntu-translators
<tumbleweed> dpm: whois suggests china. find: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Contact/Teams (#ubuntu-cn-translators?)
<dpm> ubuntu-l10n-zh-cn
<find> OK,i go to see it,thank u very much
<dpm> find, np, you can go to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-zh-cn and you'll find how to contact them there
<bdrung> tumbleweed: {debupstream}~~bzr{revno} as debian version?
<tumbleweed> ~~ seems overkill but fine.
<find> i am find it already,thank u very much
<bdrung> tumbleweed: it should be lower than {debupstream}~maverick and {debupstream}~ppa
<bdrung> ok, changing to one ~
<tumbleweed> I tend to use ~daily+bzr{revno}
<bdrung> tumbleweed: let's see if it works: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~udt-developers/+recipe/daily
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that's even better
<happyaron> Should I file sync request when Debian has a new version of a package?
<Laney> it will be autosynced if the package is a) not modified in Ubuntu and b) has been uploaded to unstable
<Laney> otherwise yes sync if it can and should be synced
<coolbhavi> happyaron, yes but make sure you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<happyaron> thank you, :)
<sagaci> so if one wanted to get a new package into ubuntu, the most sensible way (in the majority of cases) is to go through Debian, right?
<sagaci> and ubuntu packaging is mostly maintaining stuff rather than introducing new packages, in a nutshell
<Laney> yes that is fair to say
<sagaci> thanks, trying to get my head around some of it
<happyaron> AFAIK, debian ftp-master says they won't accept new package from NEW before squeeze is out.
<Laney> not true
<happyaron> they randomly accept some packages, but no guarantee.
<Laney> there are never guarantees, but i have asked for several packages to be accepted and they always have
<bdrung> tumbleweed: shouldn't ubuntutools/test/test_help.py be in ubuntutools/test_help.py?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: why should we add 'a1' to the version number if the target is UNRELEASED?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: http://paste.debian.net/103007/
<tumbleweed> bdrung: you could say that about all te test suites. a1 is like ~1 in python terms. Aah nice. BTW if you run it with python2.7 it'll tell you when it's skipping things.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you still don't explain why you add 'a1'? why should the version modified?
<tumbleweed> off-topic for that branch, I just saw that code and thought, if we are determining the version from the changelog, we should differentiate prereleases. Doesn't really matter at all, though.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i am against this change. the daily will have an other version anyway
<tumbleweed> bdrung: reverted
<bdrung> tumbleweed: get-build-deps runs sudo
<tumbleweed> as do a few others
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that let's the test fail and shouldn't be for --help
<tumbleweed> yes. I've blacklisted most of the others, I'll sort it out now.
<surfzoid> Hi folk
<surfzoid> is "grub-reboot" have an GUI/FE ?
<surfzoid> because i just finish to wrote one :-) http://surfzoid.free.fr/freevbsoft/RebootInFE/
<aboudreault> hi, is Karmic still supported for security updates?
<bdrung> aboudreault: yes
<aboudreault> it's 2 years the non-lts support?
<ebroder> 18 months
<aboudreault> I see
<aboudreault> thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: 404main: sys.exit(0) only if sys.argv[1] in ('help', '-h', '--help')
<bdrung> merge-changelog:sys.exit(0) -> sys.exit(exit)
<lostern> What are the environment variables that are used to search include and lib dirs?
<lostern> Never mind, I should have looked in the gcc man page first.
<RoAkSoAx> dude!! /win 3
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<hakermania1> 199 people in room :)
<bdrung> hakermania1: and 299 in #ubuntu-dev
<bdrung> #ubuntu-devel
<hakermania1> bdrung: Haha, coincidence :)
<udienz> Dang.. my bad.. i've uploaded dsc reather than debdiff :)
<coolbhavi> udienz, saw that this morning :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: please let me know once one of your two branches is ready for merge
<udienz> coolbhavi, hehehe, i'm so sleepy this day.. and also my connections is very bad
<coolbhavi> udienz, :)
 * udienz uploading now
<udienz> bug 692457
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692457 in bash (Ubuntu) "Please merge bash 4.1-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692457
<ebroder> apw: --verbose
<bdrung> udienz: you could drop ".dcs" from the debdiff name next time
<udienz> bdrung, ok, my bad.. :) i was very confused this day, last "dsc" files uploaded 5 times transfered to lp with 3kbps :(
<udienz> all errors
<hakermania1> udienz: You take several errors: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/ttf-indonesian Why you let it like this and you don't correct them?
<udienz> hakermania1, license problem.
<udienz> upstream author doesn't reply my emails
<hakermania1> udienz: :/
<udienz> hakermania1, how about your package?
<hakermania1> udienz: Waiting for 3rd review :)) No errors at all :)
<bdrung> udienz: you should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors again.
<udienz> bdrung, Done
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks, btw you changed indentation of line 117 of 404main during the tab -> space conversion. I guess I'd better look for more of those
<bdrung> tumbleweed: thanks for detecting
<tumbleweed> code after an exit() is suspicious :P
<bdrung> tumbleweed: fix pushed
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you get your config-681693 branch ready for merge?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: looking at it. test-help should be mergeable, waiting for your ACK
<bdrung> tumbleweed: merge-changelog:sys.exit(0) -> sys.exit(exit)
<tumbleweed> add-patch needs manpage, setup.py + copyright entries, and a BLACKLIST entry
<bdrung> tumbleweed: tell that mvo
<tumbleweed> thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can setup.py create symlinks?
<tumbleweed> well, it's python, it can do anything. Don't know of any distribute mechanism for doing them though.
<ari-tczew> could someone look on bug 540514 ? I really don't understand what's the problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540514 in xenomai (Ubuntu) "Malformed control file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540514
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you can ask for build log or the malformed control file
<coolbhavi> bdrung, +1 and isnt the original maintainer field in source stanza?
<ari-tczew> bdrung: why? Version: 2.4.8-2ubuntu1
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I pushed a fix. config-681693 looks ok to me. There's also import-bfd-681693 (the beginning of one branch per script)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: test-help r886
<bdrung> k, got it now
<bdrung> tumbleweed: merged (not yet pushed)
<tumbleweed> thanks. I'll be picking away at more scripts
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed
<tumbleweed> bdrung: aah, thanks. I forgot about the related BD changes
<bdrung> tumbleweed: re config branch: my three points are still open: 1) what speaks against using Logging.warning instead of printf?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: oh, didn't push r914, pushed.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you use logger instead of ubuntutools.logger
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can we please use only one?
<tumbleweed> now I understand the confusion last night, I thought you meant logging :P
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i failed in configuring logging to look like  ubuntutools.logger
<tumbleweed> yeah no need to build of logging if it's more complex than reinventing it
<bdrung> tumbleweed: so you can throw logging out again and use ubuntutools.logger
<bdrung> (which doesn't require to be initialised)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah I'm busy with it
<bdrung> tumbleweed: btw, our daily build is up and running: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~udt-developers/+archive/daily
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ok, there we are (r916). BTW I looked at add-patch, it's not ready to be install (breaks with quilt, haven't tried anything else). I'll prod mvo when he turns up
<ari-tczew> could anyone look on changes in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhdhomerun/20100828-0ubuntu1
<ari-tczew> for me it looks like horrible bad sponsorship
<ari-tczew> d/copyright changed, lack of mention in d/changelog
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: looks like it went from an ubuntu-only package to a debian sync, and back to the ubuntu one
<ebroder> Probably means the sync was wrong
<ari-tczew> omg...
 * ari-tczew guess that procedures and policies are only for community, not stricte Canonical developers.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed, ebroder: what's next with that package? merge is available.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: if the fork is intended to be permanent, it should be sync black-listed.
<ari-tczew> I see very good flow of information...
<ebroder> ari-tczew: It looks like superm1 is the primary maintainer for that package. Which makes sense since he does a lot of Mythbuntu stuff. Maybe you should try to get in touch with him since he seems to have fairly clear intentions around the package
<bdrung> tumbleweed: merged and pushed
<tumbleweed> bdrung: two more scripts in separet branches, I'll do a couple more now.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: these tools needs to be converted to PEP8: requestsync, ubuntu-build, ubuntutools/lp/udtexceptions.py, ubuntutools/requestsync/*.py - do you want to do it?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed again
<tumbleweed> ack-sync looks good. OK I'll convert those.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you can do it directly in trunk
<bdrung> tumbleweed: BACKPORTPACKAGE_LPINSTANCE in import-bfd branch
<tumbleweed> the cost of getting distracted
<tumbleweed> both pushed
<bdrung> tumbleweed: merged import-bfd
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the indentation of optParser should be improved (lp-set-dup)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: the alternative is to split long strings (line length)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what do you prefer?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I change style as appropriate (also see the heavily-indented bits of the config-parsing code.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the lines are too long even with the short indentation.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the scripts need PEP8 conversion
<tumbleweed> bdrung: can you clarify both of those? Which lines, which scripts?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the script you where you converted tabs to spaces
<bdrung> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
<bdrung> tumbleweed: see Maximum Line Length example
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yes, my editor is configured to highlight long lines. I just did a pure tab-to-space conversion.
<tumbleweed> I decided to tidy them up in a second pass
<bdrung> tumbleweed: k, that's a good idea (too see the tidy process)
<hakermania> if any reviewer has time please take a look at wallch at REVU thx in advance! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wallch
<superm1> ari-tczew, afaik everything should be documented in bzr for changes
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "debian_srcpkg = ubuntutools.requestsync.mail.getDebianSrcPkg" -> wrong indented
<tumbleweed> bdrung: least bad option
<tumbleweed> pylint can drive you mad btw, it always complains about *something* :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i know. i fix only some of the complains
<bcurtiswx> would someone be able to explain this error to me? src/Makefile.am: object `empathy-accounts-dialog.$(OBJEXT)' created both with libtool and without
<bdrung> tumbleweed: merged lp-set-dup-681693
<RAOF> bcurtiswx: I've not seen that error before, but it *looks* like you've got a rule which generates empathy-accounts-dialog.(o? so?), which libtool will also be generating, and it's complaining.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: should i move libapt-pkg-perl, libwww-perl, python-magic, python-soappy from recommends to depends?
<RAOF> I'd guess therefore that something is defining a rule for empathy-accounts-dialog.so, since that's what libtool should be generating.
<bcurtiswx> RAOF, hmm, weird, because one of my patches requests a function from it and doesn't see it, so i added it to recognize it
<RAOF> bcurtiswx: Care to pastebin the Makefile.am?
<bcurtiswx> RAOF, yeah I can.  Gimme a sec
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we should write the dependencies for every script directly into the scripts
<bcurtiswx> RAOF, seems ive found some other things.  I will get back to ya later :)
<RAOF> bcurtiswx: Heh.  No problem.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I think recommends is probably correct for them. Of course it's helpful if scripts can print what they are missing rather than die horribly, but that's a biggish job.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-23
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Please try to avoid too many recommends (see how devscripts handles this)
<paissad_> hello guys, i maintain a package for about 1 year now, .. but recently there's someone who contributed about some useful changes in the packaging .. i would like to add his name somewhere but i hesitate where to mention his name
<paissad_> in the debian/changelog ? ... int the README.Debian ? ....
<paissad_> i think about creating THANKS.Debian :P
<paissad_> how would you proceed ?
<udienz> ari-tczew, already removed
<micahg> paissad_: packaging changes would go in debian/changelog
<ari-tczew> udienz: so now you have to wait for core-dev response
<paissad_> micahg, yes the changes will be mentionned in debian/changelog indeed, but i'm talking about mentionning the name of a contributor
<micahg> paissad_: something like this is fine: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner-2.0/2.0~b8+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1
<paissad_> micahg, ok thanks
<dholbach> good morning!
<evaluate> morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<akoskm> hi
<akoskm> how can I change file contents on installation? there would be a line what I have to add to /etc/environment
<bdrung> tumbleweed: massfile branch fixed and pushed
<paissad> hello guys, i absolutely have to add some change in a default config file /etc/file.conf .... but the matter is i wonder wether i should do the changes automatically whenever someone upgrade to newer version of the package
<paissad> or wether i prompt the user if he want to do the changes or not (but i should ^^)
<paissad> but he should*
<geser> paissad: dpkg has some conffile (files in /etc) handling and asks about changed files on upgrade (or is it ucf who does it?)
<paissad> oO
<paissad> ucf ?
<Laney> it's dpkg
<Laney> dpkg and ucf are two alternative implementations of conffile handling AIUI
<geser> !info ucf
<ubottu> ucf (source: ucf): Update Configuration File: preserve user changes to config files.. In component main, is important. Version 3.0025 (maverick), package size 66 kB, installed size 260 kB
<geser> paissad: ^^
<paissad> ok, so i don't have to worry about that
<paissad> but i would like to warn users to at least change the value of an OPTION in their conffile
<geser> paissad: if you ship a changed file in /etc dpkg will ask what to do during the package upgrade (install the new version, keep the old one, show diff)
<Laney> if you just change it they will be prompted accordingly
<Laney> if they have modified it, otherwise it will be set for them
<bdrung> tumbleweed: are you there?
<paissad> ok, another question:
<paissad> lintian shows this warning !
<paissad> package-contains-empty-directory usr/share/pms-linux/database/
<paissad> but i do have a file debian/pms-linux.lintian-overrides
<paissad> with the content:
<paissad> pms-linux binary: package-contains-empty-directory usr/share/pms-linux/database/
<paissad> is my lintian-overrides file wrong ?
<rdw200169> just tell lintian to shut the heck up... thats what i do...
<paissad> i prefer considering as much as possible all warning that lintian show
<paissad> if have an empty dir in my package usr/share/foo/emp-dir/
<paissad> how must i add "it's lintian-override"
<paissad> its*
<geser> paissad: why to you have an empty directory in the package in the first place?
<Laney> why does the package need an empty directory?
<Laney> if it's to write to, that's an FHS violation
<paissad> !info fhs
<ubottu> Package fhs does not exist in maverick
<paissad> ok ^^
<Laney> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
<paissad> Laney, the program will create some file there
<paissad> Laney, i do know that empty dirs should not be created ^^
<geser> paissad: in theory /usr/share can be mounted read-only
<paissad> oO
<Laney> it should be somewhere under /var
<Laney> and furthermore the program should handle creating the directory itself
<paissad> Laney, yes indeed, the program does create it automatically
<paissad> Laney, but i would like to remove that dir when i use --purge
<paissad> Laney, i could create /var/lib/pms-linux/database/ and make a symlink to /usr/share/pms-linux/database
<paissad> good idea or not ?
<paissad> in any case, i will need the lintian-overrides (i just want to know what is wrong with the lintian-ovverides i wrote)
<geser> would it be too much work to let it use /var/lib/... directly?
<Laney> dpkg will not remvoe a non-empty directory on purge anyway
<Laney> you need a maintainer script
<paissad> geser, i would have to change the source if i want to creates the files in /var/lib instead of default dir !
<paissad> geser, i already modified some stuffs in the source
<paissad> Laney, rm -rf /var/lib/pms-linux/database/* (postrm)
<Laney> so remove those last two characters and you have no need to create it in your packaging :)
<paissad> hmm, i don't get what you mean
<paissad> last two chars ?
<Laney> rm -rf /var/lib/pms-linux/database
<paissad> please, why don't you only tell me about the lintian-overrides ^^
<paissad> :(
<Laney> because it's wrong and unnecessary
<paissad> my God
<paissad> Laney, you're driving me crazy :D
<geser> paissad: and file a bug upstream that it wants to write to /usr (see the FHS: /usr Secondary hierarchy for read-only user data)
<geser> lintian.override should only be used for "false-positives" and not to hide (packaging) bugs
<paissad> ok
<paissad> it's not a packaging bug (according to me)
<geser> then an upstream bug (writing to /usr) which should be fixed
<bdrung> RainCT: you wrote the man page of update-maintainer. do you allow relicensing it under the ISC license?
<paissad> Laney, geser, i all files and/or dirs that the program need to create are elsewhere (/var/lib/ for example) is accepted that anyway accepted i symlink them to /usr/share/pms-linux/ ?
<paissad> if all*
<paissad> i think yes
<geser> paissad: yes
<paissad> ok thanks
<paissad> i changed the source to write database contents to /var/lib/pms-linux/database
<RainCT> bdrung: sure
<bdrung> RainCT: thanks
<paissad> quilt is complicated :(
<paissad> complicate*
<highvoltage> compared to.... ?
<paissad> i used to use patch programm directly ( i had no problem) .. but i wan to try quilt now since patches may grow up and if i understand correctly, quilt applies a series of patches
<paissad> highvoltage, compared to patch command
<paissad> a have a debian/patches dir which contains the .diff files and a file named series (which contains the name of each .diff file to apply)
<highvoltage> I found it quite usable, I guess it depends on exactly what you want to patch and how
<highvoltage> where did those .diff files came from? did you create them with quilt?
<paissad> highvoltage, no, i created them using diff command
<paissad> diff -U 3  file.orig file
<paissad> diff -U 3  file.orig file | file.diff
<highvoltage> I speak under correction, but I guess the right way to do it if you have existing patches would be to do a quilt add on the file and then apply your old patches, and then let quilt handle the creation of the patch files
<paissad> diff -U 3  file.orig file | tee file.diff
<highvoltage> see https://www.wzdftpd.net/blog/index.php?post/2008/02/05/3-quilt-a-patch-management-system-how-to-survive-with-many-patches for example
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I am now, thanks. (Been offline, making mountains of ravioli today)
<tumbleweed> ScottK: what's the issue with many recommends? surely they are preferable to depends?
<evaluate> hello
<evaluate> would a request to NOT sync a package to ubuntu be taken into consideration if it would come from the upstream maintainer?
<tumbleweed> evaluate: packages can be added to the sync blacklist, yes http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/sync-blacklist.txt
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i am working on update-maintainer but i don't know how to add test cases
<evaluate> tumbleweed, ok, thank you
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I'd imagine you'd have to patch open like I did for the config tests
<bdrung> evaluate: which package?
<evaluate> bdrung, It's not in debian yet, but I hope it soon will be...
<tumbleweed> evaluate: and it's something that can't be maintained in debian for both debian and ubuntu?
<cdbs> evaluate: If it has a version number like -0ubuntuX, then it won't be synced automatically
<tumbleweed> cdbs: people will spend time trying to merge it, though
<bdrung> evaluate: what are the reasons for not wanting it to be synced?
<evaluate> tumbleweed, no, I actually started hating ubuntu as of today. I hate where it is going. I really wanted to get involved with both ubuntu and debian, but I may have to rething this
<evaluate> well, for one the recent changes, read indicator, notify, etc. They are not mature, yet still you enforce them on people, this is not the way to do it IMHO
<tumbleweed> evaluate: it's perfectly ok for you to maintain your package in debian and not care about ubuntu, you don't have to. At the same time, it's nice if you do.
<evaluate> I worked my ass off to get indicator support for my app, but it lacks some serious features (e.g. I can't display any items in the indicator menu that contain underscores, the underscores get trimmed off). WTF is that?
<tumbleweed> personally, I'm not a unity fan either (and in fact, I primarily use debian)
<evaluate> tumbleweed, I seriously would love to do that, but the sh*t that's going on is making it impossible for me to do so...
<tumbleweed> evaluate: without something more concrete, we can't really give you much guidance
<evaluate> I mean, why would you enforce the indicator on people of it can't even display underscores in it's menu items. Also, why would you enforce a notify daemon that's not configurable AT ALL
<evaluate> tumbleweed, well, I gave you an example. underscores in the indicator menu. They get trimmed off.
<evaluate> tumbleweed, just a sec
<evaluate> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana-dev/msg00052.html
<bdrung> evaluate: underscore are trimmed off on menus too, because they have a special meaning.
<tumbleweed> dunno if my system is just broken, but I don't seem to have notify-osd when I use "Ubuntu Classic" desktop
<evaluate> bdrung, no, not the way I use them...
<bdrung> evaluate: for what do you use the underscores?
<evaluate> bdrung, I'm working on a clipboard manager. I need to put the clipboard history in the menu, and people sometimes also copy stuff that contains underscores
<evaluate> and it looks like hell if you copy 'g_signal_connect' and see 'gsignalconnect' in the menu
<bdrung> ok, that makes sense
<evaluate> I also don't understand Mike's attitude on configuration: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/05/mark-shuttleworth-its-ok-to-customize.html
<evaluate> He used to be cool and stuff...
<cdbs> evaluate: Its just that underscores in the menu items aren't a concern for the devs
<evaluate> cdbs, that wasn't my point. It seems that many things aren't a concern for the devs lately, examples being configurability and the ease to change things...
 * cdbs would not like to take up that matter
<evaluate> they seem to want to enforce a certain look to all people. If I wanted that I could've stayed with win$hit or OSX...
<bdrung> evaluate: isn't a lack of configurability common for new projects? they will gather configurability over time (after they are requested)
<evaluate> bdrung, well, yeah, but apparently Mike stated that he wouldn't like to receive patches to change the behaviour of notify-osd (see the link I pasted above)
<cdbs> evaluate: yes, remember that nothing is perfect in its early years
<cdbs> s/years/releases/
<cdbs> Even Mac OS was a failure until 10.1 came along
<evaluate> I mean, I would understand it if he would say that he won't spend his time coding it, because he sees something else as being more important, but NOT ACCEPTING PATCHES?
<evaluate> WTF?
<bdrung> evaluate: Mike? did you mean Mark?
<evaluate> yeah, Mark
<evaluate> my bad
<cdbs> You can't blame SABDFL for that, he sets goals. He has more serious matters of concern than to think of underscores
<ScottK> tumbleweed: They are still installed by default and so lots of recommends means a huge install for stuff most people won't use.
<bdrung> evaluate: the only solution is to fork notify-osd (or implement something else) if you want a different behaviour.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: so you'd rather have suggests were possible, and less dependancies where possible. I'm with you on that
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Yes.
<evaluate> there also is a notify-osd patch that has been created over a year ago by someone, but it's been discontinued. If they really wanted they could've merged the changes, because it seems to be working fine...
<tumbleweed> ScottK: otoh, we haven't added any dependancies in this work, (than I know of) only BDs
<ScottK> tumbleweed: As an example, as installed dget won't work, but if you run it, it fails telling you to install wget or curl (IIRC).
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Great.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: yeah, sounds familiar
<evaluate> bdrung, like I said, that wasn't the idea. Why would I want to fork something if that feature can easily be integrated into the main program without loosing any of it's current usefulness or functionality?
<cdbs> evaluate: I just got 3 patches accepted, one for indicator-session, one for dbusmenu and another for notify-osd. (all of these are ayatana projects)
<evaluate> cdbs, did any of them bring additional features to them?
<ScottK> evaluate and cdbs: This is probably more on topic in #ayatana.
<azeem_> it is fine to reject patches if they compromise the design
<azeem_> the patch author is free to fork thn
<azeem_> then*
<cdbs> evaluate: the devs are busy coping with the changes (GTK3, Python 2.7, etc). If you want to write a patch and get it accepted, then feel free to ping the devs. They are friendly with prospective devs who follow their coding style and designs
<evaluate> ScottK, sorry, I was initially asking about the inclusion (or exclusion therefore) of a package from ubuntu
<cdbs> And if you want a modification in the design, then file a bug with the ayatana-design project (let us stop this discussion here)
<evaluate> ok, back on topic then. Who should I talk to, to get my program on that blacklist?
<ScottK> Why do you want it blacklisted?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: hmm, we did add a D on python-gnupginterface, and it's only used by one script (which I never use)
<evaluate> ScottK, because I don't want it to be synched over from debian, when it will be uploaded there...
<ScottK> evaluate: As long as it's got an XubuntuY revision number it won't be sync'ed over.
<bdrung> evaluate: to get back to your initial question: you can request to blacklist a package from syncs, but you need a good reason. your request will be rejected if the reason is "i don't like ubuntu". that's the freedom open source gives us.
<cdbs> evaluate: I would recommend you to get the package uploaded to Debian, sync then, and then make local changes in Ubuntu
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you can move that to recommends
<cdbs> Is the package intended to be repackaged in Debian?
<cdbs> s/package/upstream tarball/
<evaluate> cdbs, that's my point, I don't want to spend another bazillion hours to get it to play nicely with ubuntu, just because the ubuntu people feel it's ok to enforce unusable stuff on their users
<tumbleweed> bdrung: done, and I'll file a bug about scripts failing nicely without recommends / suggests
<cdbs> evaluate: please mention why you *don't* want a sync
<bdrung> evaluate: you have to make your package DFSG incompatible to prevent it from getting into ubuntu. ;)
<Laney> plenty of packages don't care about the ayatana stuff
<Laney> there's no requirement for you to
<evaluate> bdrung, well, if you sync it over, YOU will have to take care of the awkward stuff that will happen with it with the ayatana stuff...
<ScottK> evaluate: I misunderstood what you were after.
<ScottK> evaluate: Yes.  It's Ubuntu's problem then.
<evaluate> ok then, that works with me :-)
* cdbs changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Archive: Open | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Ubuntu support in #ubuntu
<paissad> highvoltage, now i understand quilt, yes indeed, it's quite usable ;)
<evaluate> ScottK, to clear it up. I got angry at the fact that because the ubuntu devs implemented stuff in ubuntu that shouldn't have made it there, because it's not stable and usable enough yet, users file bugs at programs like mine, like 'implement support for indicator' or 'indicator menu doesn't work properly'...
<ScottK> evaluate: I can understand feeling that way.
<ScottK> I think it's reasonable to adapt to it, accept patches for it, or say it's a distro problem as you please.
<ScottK> So just mark the bug whatever your equivalent of wontfix is and move on.
<paissad> i'm done ... ^^
<paissad> i have to make ask some user options for 1st installation or during configure about the user who run the program's daemon etc ...
<paissad> i don't want really want to use debconf (really complicated)
<paissad> really
<paissad> my Godness
<paissad> i just want to do something like this ... ask the user, the domain name, port, sharing dirs ...
<Riddell> debconf can be complicated but it does sound like the right tool for the job
<geser> and debconf is the only policy-compliant tool for questions during package installation
<ari-tczew> congrats to AnAnt for syncing package from experimental without build test - git-buildpackage
<micahg> ari-tczew: do you know he didn't test?
<ari-tczew> micahg: I guess
<ari-tczew> anybody know how can I fix this ftbfs: /usr/bin/ld: unrecognized option '-Bsymbolic-functions;-Wl'
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: -Wl,foo means gcc please pass foo to ld. So if ld is getting a -Wl, someone has made a typo or something
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: heh, still don't know how fix ftbfs
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: work out how that got there (start by replicating it locally)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: ok, leaving this one, thought that it's easy to fix
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> I have a problem connecting two ui files... If anywone have time please answer here (http://www.qtforum.org/article/35341/create-a-thread-to-the-one-ui-to-be-connected-with-the-qcloseevent-of-the-main-ui.html). Thank you :)
<carstenh> hi, deborphan/1.7.28.3 has been unblocked in debian and will presumably enter squeeze before its release. it includes fixes for the two bugs that are fixed in the ubuntu's version. could someone please sync deborphan from debian to ubuntu n*?
<carstenh> it also includes other fixes and translation updates.
<micahg> carstenh: ok, I'm looking into it
<carstenh> micahg: thanks :)
<carstenh> micahg: the dbgsym changelog entry is incomplete, but the according code is correct and complete.
<micahg> carstenh: what about the french man page?
<carstenh> micahg: fixed in .1
<carstenh> | * Recode note regarding bug reporting from the French l10n team to UTF-8. LP: #352744, Closes: #603907
<micahg> carstenh: ah, ok, great, I just need to test build before I request the sync
<carstenh> :)
<micahg> carstenh: looks good, I'm requesting the sync
<carstenh> micahg: fine, thanks a lot
<micahg> carstenh: bug 693905 if you wish to subscribe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693905 in deborphan (Ubuntu) "Sync deborphan 1.7.28.3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693905
<ari-tczew> micahg: thanks
<micahg> ari-tczew: what did I do?
<ari-tczew> micahg: taking a look on deborphan. did you see comment on MoM?
<micahg> ari-tczew: oops, sorry no
 * micahg needs to remember to check
<ari-tczew> micahg: you're golden
<micahg> ari-tczew: did you file a bug already?
<ari-tczew> micahg: not yet
<ari-tczew> micahg: however, I wasted only 5 minutes today morning, so don't afraid
<carstenh> micahg: I'm already on the "to be notified" list :)
<ari-tczew> micahg: I planned to do it today evening, if you have done this, no problem, but please remember check in future comments
<micahg> ari-tczew: ok, thanks
<micahg> carstenh: cool
<blueyed> I want to upload a fix for apt-build, which is a Debian native package. should I use 0.12.37-0ubuntu1 for the version?
<ari-tczew> blueyed: is it new upstream release?
<crimsun> if it's an Ubuntu-specific change, 0.12.37ubuntu1
<ari-tczew> +1 ^^
<carstenh> ari-tczew: native packages are always new upstream releases ;)
<ari-tczew> blueyed: or send changes to Debian git and we can get full source from git
<blueyed> It is not Ubuntu specific. The same bug applies to Debian.
<blueyed> I just wanted to get it fixed, and would have forwarded it.
<blueyed> I might just forward the debdiff without upload.
<blueyed> ari-tczew: are you involved in apt-build?
<ari-tczew> blueyed: nope
<blueyed> oh nice, my two patches are in git already (from looking at the changelog)
<blueyed> well, part of it.
<blueyed> Is there a recommended version to get the Git commit upstream? Send them to the bug, if there is one?
<crimsun> would you clarify, please?
<ari-tczew> blueyed: report a bug on BTS
<blueyed> I have cloned the apt-build repo and am about to commit my fix. Is there a best way to get it to the Debian developer? e.g. via git-send-email to a bug.
<Laney> a git-formatted patch on the BTS is the best way usually
<blueyed> ari-tczew: there's a bug already. I will try sending the commit there.
<blueyed> k, thanks, Laney.
<akoskm> hi! where to place the bash script in debian/rules if I want to run it after the installation?
<carstenh> akoskm: debian/postinst is run after the installation, but i'm sure you don't want to place your script there without prior adaption
<carstenh> akoskm: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
<carstenh> akoskm: http://wiki.debian.org/MaintainerScripts
<akoskm> carstenh, thank you. I have to run this script to update the classpath variable in /etc/environment. I can't find any already implemented scripts for doing such things. If you have better idea I really appreciate it.
<carstenh> akoskm: is this your private package or something you intend to upload?
<akoskm> no, for now it's just my test package (qt jambi, java binding for Qt). I want to upload later and make it available for download
<carstenh> akoskm: changing files in maintainerscript is bad and mostly a policy violation
<carstenh> akoskm: you should read http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/java-policy/x85.html
<carstenh> akoskm: ubuntu is based on debian, so the debian policy applies on ubuntu too
<carstenh> akoskm: looking how exactly other packages have solved such problems is often a good idea
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-24
<akoskm> carstenh, thank you for those links. I'll take a look to other Java libraries.
<ari-tczew> please open task on maverick in: bug 404255 , bug 651261 , bug 410510
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404255 in Rhythmbox "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in rhythmdb_query_concatenate()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404255
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651261 in Rhythmbox "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in rb_ipod_db_get_mount_path()" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410510 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu Maverick) "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in rb_shell_guess_source_for_uri()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410510
<ari-tczew> fta: could be nspluginwrapper merged with Debian?
<paissad> i don't like very much start-stop-daemon tools ! ... it's confusing according to me
<paissad> why not doing for example "program start" or "program stop" when possible
<paissad> instead of doing "start-stop-daemon blablah program start"
<paissad> KISS
<psusi> because program does knot know how or even whether it is being managed by an init program
<paissad> don't know what you mean
<paissad> if the program can be run in deamon mode directly ... what's the problem ?
<paissad> i don't really blame start-stop-daemon, .. i just want to understand it's real benefit
<paissad> its* usability
<akoskm> hi
<akoskm> I'm executing the /sbin/ldconfig command in my postinst script
<akoskm> after linking the first 2 libraries it gives me an error
<akoskm> http://pastebin.com/d6JY5uFh
<akoskm> I have no idea where to start or where is this library from
<akoskm> can I modify the default java.library.path while I'm installing my package?
<paissad> guys, i have this postinst file http://dpaste.com/290310/ ( i added set -x in purpose for debugging), but i'm lost
<paissad> actually, the problem is that when i run 'dpkg -i" and when the program daemon was already running, i have no problem
<paissad> but when i run 'dpkg -i" when the program was not running "dpkg -i" process is "blocked" (does not end his job)
<paissad> here is an output, when pms-linux was running before i ran "dpkg -i" http://dpaste.com/290313/ (No problem here)
<paissad> here is an output when pms-linux was not running before http://dpaste.com/290314/
<paissad> do you have any idea about what is wrong ?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-25
<carstenh> paissad: imagine I installed your package, how do I stop or start the daemon?
<paissad> carstenh, /etc/init.d/pms-linux stop
<carstenh> paissad: good. how do I tell dpkg not to kill things during package installations or upgrades?
<paissad> hmm
<carstenh> paissad: the answer is: I use /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d
<paissad> i did not know
<carstenh> paissad: this does not work with your postinst
<paissad> how should i proceed then ?
<carstenh> paissad: policy says "The package maintainer scripts must use invoke-rc.d to invoke the /etc/init.d/* initscripts, ...", this avoids problems like ignoring policy-rc.d
<carstenh> paissad: your silent-kill-foo needs to be replaced with calling the init-script
<carstenh> paissad: and your do_perms looks weird, but this is an other possible problem you could check later
<paissad> carstenh, ok, i make some changes and tell you
<carstenh> paissad: an other thing I noticed is that you use pgrep.  you need to depend on pgrep to be able to use it.  if you would use start-stop-daemon in a sane way you would not need to use pgrep.
<carstenh> paissad: depend on procps, not pgrep
<carstenh> paissad: good resources for information about packaging after you know the very basic things are http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ and some sites on the ubuntu wiki
<carstenh> good night
<paissad> carstenh, i tried to use use start-stop-daemon, but the program itself is run like this 'java -jar options"
<carstenh> paissad: oh, I forget to mention one thing: this invoke-rc.d and start-stop-daemon thinks do not directly address your initial question but they need to be done in a correct way before you upload to ubuntu or debian and if you are lucky your initial problem is gone
<carstenh> paissad: write a wrapper?
<paissad> wrapper ?
<carstenh> paissad: echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'wget -O- "$@"') > wcat
<carstenh> paissad: chmod a+x wcat
<carstenh> paissad: wcat google.com
<carstenh> paissad: if you do this you wrote and used a wrapper
<paissad> carstenh, ok thanks, but last thing please (if you still have a little time)
<carstenh> the first line must be (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'wget -O- "$@"') > wcat
<carstenh> just ask
<paissad> carstenh, yes indeed, the 1st line ins #!/bin/sh
<carstenh> I forgot the initial "(" on 02:21:46
<carstenh> (plus/minus your time zone)
<paissad> about, the postinst, where should i invoke invoke.rc
<paissad> carstenh, same time ^^
<paissad> i changed silent_stop* to /etc/init.d/pms-linux stop
<carstenh> paissad: if you need to stop or restart it use invoke-rc.d instead of your pgrep/kill-solution
<paissad> i'm confused, i try to read some package builds to get an idea
<paissad> thanks anyway
<carstenh> paissad: why do you stop it and do not start it again?
<carstenh> invoke-rc.d is just a "wrapper" ;) ... around /etc/init.d/script with some additional magic
<carstenh> now I'm away. good luck with your package
<family> Hi im new to ubuntu, can anyone answer a question for me?
<family> hello?
<family> hello
<family> is anyone available to answer a question?
<paissad> guys, i have this the start section of my init.d script
<paissad> start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --background --oknodo --exec $DAEMON "$DAEMON_OPTS"
<paissad> here is what set -x shows
<paissad> start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --background --oknodo --exec /usr/bin/pms-linux 'console -c /etc/PMS.conf'
<paissad> but in that case, 'console -c /etc/PMS.conf' is considered as a single option (because of the double quotes in $DAEMON_OPTS"
<paissad> )
<paissad> but when i remove the double quotes, i have have this
<paissad> start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --background --oknodo --exec /usr/bin/pms-linux console -c /etc/PMS.conf
<paissad> that creates an error because of '-c' which is an option of start-stop-daemon
<paissad> how should i proceed then ?
<paissad> without double quotes -> start-stop-daemon "thinks" that /etc/PMS.conf is a user  (which is not the case of course)
<paissad> thanks in advance for helping
<ebroder> paissad: You can use -- to separate arguments to start-stop-daemon from arguments to your program
<paissad> hmmm where i put -- ?
<ebroder> paissad: After /usr/bin/pms-linux, which is the last part of the arguments to start-stop-daemon
<paissad> ok thanks
<hyperair> paissad: you can often use -- like this for most *nix command-line applications as well
<hyperair> e.g. grep
<hyperair> grep blah blah -- -file-that-begins-with-dash
<paissad> oh ok i will remember that !
<hyperair> er minsu one blah
<paissad> thanks for all
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> hi.. i am making a program.. from the mainwindow i open a new dialog... from this dialog i push a button and the program is restartign.. but the problem is that the programm will pass the close event of the mainwindow... i do not know if you understand me... I am using Qt Creator with c++, ubuntu 10.10,.. ( For further information please go here --> http://www.qtcentre.org/threads/37281-Create-a-thread-to-the-one-UI-to-be-conn
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> restarting*
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> will not pass*
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> I really need a solution to this because the only thing that left to my programm is that
<Leon_Wallch_Deve> Thank you anyway
<ari-tczew> what is the point of fixing ftbfs which binaries actually exist? I mean ftbfs from http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<bdrung> tumbleweed: preferred-mirror merged. one thing left: you b-d on python-simplejson, but you don't recommend it
<tumbleweed> bdrung: err yes I should recommend python (>= 2.7) | python-simplejson
<tumbleweed> now I need to attack syncpackage and pbuilder-dist...
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you fix the recommends and get the tests succeeding first?
<tumbleweed> oh tests failing? whoops. Yeah I'll sort those out first
<bdrung> tumbleweed: FAIL: test_pull-debian-source (ubuntutools.test.test_help.HelpTestCase)
<carstenh> ari-tczew: providing updated packages with security fixes is impossible if the package does not build. additionally, sometimes packages need to be rebuilt if they use libraries whose abi (application binary interface) changed.
<ari-tczew> carstenh: so ftbfs can be fixed if new revision is necessary
<ari-tczew> if there is not security update or other bugfix, I see no point of fix ftbfs
<udienz> seems like many packages failed build because LDSO Link
<udienz> I have successfully fixing libmatchbox
<udienz> bug 694300
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694300 in libmatchbox (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package libmatchbox 1.9-5 in natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694300
<carstenh> ari-tczew: imagine a billionaire is looking for a new hobby and chooses to start a new distribution and to rebuild the whole debian archive twice a year ;)
<ari-tczew> carstenh: why billionaire?
<carstenh> ari-tczew: your way of fixing ftbfs bug would also mean that the security team is responsible to fix those bugs
<carstenh> ari-tczew: because this already happened
<ari-tczew> carstenh: I didn't get it
<carstenh> ari-tczew: ubuntu is sponsored by someone who made a lot of money with ssl certificates and the dot com bubble
<ari-tczew> carstenh: I know. Mark S
<ari-tczew> carstenh: FYI ubuntu is sponsored by volunteers, as well.
<carstenh> and he choose to rebuilt debian twice a year a whilw ago. with a lot of unfixed ftbfs bugs this would have been much harder
<carstenh> yes, this "mark s sponsored ..." was a bit simplified
<ari-tczew> carstenh: heh, I can fix a lot of these FTBFS if Mark S will pay me
<Laney> because the archive must be buildable within itself
<Laney> modulo bootstrapping
<carstenh> it's not only him, other people also rebuild packages, e.g., because they think they could harden them or improve performance
<carstenh> ... or want to port to different architectures and/or kernels
<ari-tczew> 1400 ftbfs... decisively we need more contributors
<hakermania> What is 'ftbfs' ?
<carstenh> ari-tczew: trying to build ubuntu source package in debian can help to find and prevent future ftbfs in debian, since ubuntu currently has newer versions of many packages
<carstenh> hakermania: fails to build from source
<ari-tczew> !ftbfs | hakermania
<bdrung> tumbleweed: your error message could be improved. -> "Please install foo."
<ari-tczew> hmm, ubottu doesn't know what's ftbfs! you're n00b ubottu
<bdrung> ari-tczew: ububot is on vacation :P
<ari-tczew> bdrung: ah, right
<bdrung> s/ububot/ubottu/
<ari-tczew> merry x-mas ubottu
<hakermania> !noob | ubottu
<ubottu> hakermania: Acronyms or statements like noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period.
<hakermania> haha
<bdrung> :D
<bdrung> !motu | ubottu
<ubottu> bdrung: motu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<hakermania>  ari-tczew: You said "1400 ftbfs... decisively we need more contributors", when you say contributors you mean persons that can make new projects for ubuntu or persons who are willing to fix bugs etc?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: you could drop the devscripts check. u-d-t should depend on devscripts!
<tumbleweed> bdrung: err that's true, I should be removing those, not adding them
<ari-tczew> hakermania: this second
<ari-tczew> udienz: do you know what is merge?
<udienz> ari-tczew, Yes, merge is copying from debian with changes
<bdrung> s/is merge/a merge is/
<udienz> And Sync,  copying from debian without any changes
<ari-tczew> udienz: I'm reviewing your FTBFS fix. why did you call it as merge?
<ari-tczew> it's just ftbfs fix. you didn't grab changes from Debian
<Bachstelze> hmm, if a package uses dpatch but debian/rules does not implement the patch/unpatch rules, is it okay to add them, or should I just Deal With Itâ¢?
<bdrung> Bachstelze: yes, add them
<udienz> ari-tczew, no no.. i;m not call this bug 694300 with merge,
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694300 in libmatchbox (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package libmatchbox 1.9-5 in natty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694300
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: and inform Debian maintainer about that
<carstenh> hakermania: people doing development are of course also needed
<ari-tczew> udienz: from your debdiff: * Merge from Debian Unstable (LP: #694300), Remaining change:
<ari-tczew> am i blind?
<udienz> ari-tczew, ah... you right.. :D sorry i will fixing it
<hakermania> carstenh: I don't think so that ubuntu really wants them. If it did, more reviewers would be available and the process for reviewing your package would take less, and no weeks
<hakermania> :P
<ari-tczew> udienz: please also add DEP3 tags
<ari-tczew> udienz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines
<ari-tczew> udienz: no, stop. there is no patch system
<ari-tczew> you should apply changes indirect to files directly
<carstenh> hakermania: people doing reviewss are also needed ;)
<ari-tczew> your debdiff is ftbfs
<udienz> ari-tczew, btw, libmatchbox maybe merge. because there is nothing ubuntu version at least
<hakermania> carstenh: A lot of dependencies haha
<ari-tczew> udienz: please understand that merging means getting changes from Debian
<ari-tczew> you just adding changes to clean debian package
<udienz> ari-tczew, so this a file under patches/ must be removed? ok i will do it
<ari-tczew> udienz: that's right. before preparing a fix please check in the source package directory command 'what-patch'
<carstenh> hakermania: if you want to work on something and you show the required skills and engagement, you normally get the chance to do so. packaging random new software is often less useful than improving existing packages or doing things that are not related to packaging.
<udienz> ari-tczew, done
<hakermania> carstenh: Agree :)
<udienz> ari-tczew, ah.. dorry please forget it. a merge still appear at changelog
<udienz> s/dorry/sorry
<udienz> ari-tczew, ok done
<hakermania> udienz: What kinf of packages are you fixing?
<hakermania> kind*
<ari-tczew> udienz: hmm, seems to you want fix bug 692860 so you can just set LP: #692860 and attach your debdiff there. you didn't need to open a new bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692860 in matchbox-window-manager (Ubuntu) "FTBFS Natty libX11.so.6: could not read symbols: Invalid operation" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692860
<udienz> hakermania, libmatchbox
<udienz> ari-tczew, but this is different packages
<hakermania> udienz: Are you finding bugs from Harvest?
<ari-tczew> udienz: summarizing: remove second LP: because there is no affected libmatchbox
<udienz> hakermania, no, from udd.d.o
<hakermania> udienz: link?
<udienz> hakermania http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<udienz> ari-tczew, done
<hakermania> udienz: What of the three options do I select in order to download the ftbfs package? (PTS   BTS   LP)
<udienz> a new debdiff has been uploaded
<udienz> hakermania, hm.. PTS to got source from debian, and then look at error messages
<udienz> try to fix it
<hakermania> udienz: Ok thx
<ari-tczew> udienz: again d/changelog is wrong because you removed patch file ;)
<bdrung> hakermania: pull-lp-source
<ari-tczew> udienz: now you can use just: * Fix FTBFS linking with binutils-gold and gcc 4.5. (LP: #694300)
<bdrung> hakermania: or pull-debian-source if you want the corresponding package from debian
<hakermania> bdrung: So, this command will provide me e.g. with the package 'wally' ftbfs package?
<hakermania> 'pull-lp-source wally'
<bdrung> hakermania: it will download the latest source of wally
<bdrung> from launchpad
<hakermania> bdrung: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi is referring to the latest sources of the list packages, isn't it?
<bdrung> hakermania: or use "bzr branch lp:ubuntu/wally" if you prefer bzr
<bdrung> hakermania: yes, it should
<udienz> ari-tczew, Ok Done... again ;)
 * udienz too nervous
<ari-tczew> udienz: are you too nervous? why?
<ari-tczew> beginning in MOTU areas always are failing
<bdrung> not failings, growth by making mistakes ;)
<hakermania> bdrung: Two questions: a)Who informs udd.debian.org for the failed to build packages? Or udd.debian.org tries to build the packages for natty and if it cannot it sends them to ftbfs section? b) Aren't the real maintainers currently working on their ftbfs packages ?
<udienz> ari-tczew, hehehe
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I'm calling things by their names, colloquially :)
<bdrung> hakermania: lucas nussbaum rebuild all packages from natty and provided this list: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<bdrung> hakermania: he send a mail to the debian devel mailing list pointing to this list and asking the debian maintainer to have a look at it and see if they are affected by these ftbfs too.
<hakermania> bdrung: Oh, so if a package fails building it goes there :) nice! And all these packages must be ready till 4/11 ?
<udienz> hakermania, before submitting a patch try to build it with pbuilder or put to your ppa
<bdrung> hakermania: this page is only a snapshot in time.
<ari-tczew> udienz, hakermania: not necessary ppa. pbuilder or sbuild - locally
<bdrung> hakermania: these ftbfs packages should be fixed till 4/11, but we can't promise to fix all.
<hakermania> bdrung: After fixing a package, where can you submit your patch?
<udienz> ari-tczew, right.. but i can do with pbuilder if lucid/maverick release.. internet connections is my problem :D
<ari-tczew> hakermania: launchpad?
<bdrung> hakermania: attach the patch (debdiff) to the ftbfs bug (open one if there isn't one) and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<hakermania> ari-tczew, bdrung: The bug will be reported to lp or to  http://udd.debian.org ?
<bdrung> hakermania: launchpad
<udienz> hakermania: as bdrung and ari-tczew says, you may fail many times in MOTU :) but don't worry to gained new knowledge
<bdrung> hakermania: more specific: to the ubuntu package in launchpad
<hakermania> udienz, bdrung: Udienz, what do you mean by telling 'fail'? Who failed? Anyway, thx, I now have to learn how to build with pbuilder, go straight to #ubuntu-packaging :P
<udienz> bdrung: i have questions. if Fedora/Opensuse providing patch can i apllied at here?
<ari-tczew> udienz: sure!
<ari-tczew> hakermania: fail = mistake
<bdrung> hakermania: getting your changes into ubuntu often taken more iterations until it suits our requirements. that's why we have sponsorship.
<hakermania> Ok
<bdrung> udienz: yes, but we prefer to have fixes applied upstream. then upstream maintains the patch.
<bdrung> udienz: at least there should be an open upstream bug for the patch.
<ari-tczew> udienz: done, thanks
<udienz> :)
<udienz> anyway i look at another FTBFS bug, and some of packages is fixed but not uploaded at archive
<udienz> like bug 687988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687988 in quagga (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package 'quagga' (0.99.17-2) failed to build on natty" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687988
<udienz> bug 687991
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 687991 in swt-gtk (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package 'swt-gtk' (3.5.1+versionbump-5ubuntu1) failed to build on natty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/687991
<udienz> why those packages has not pushed yet?
<bdrung> udienz: because ubuntu-sponsor weren't subscribed to the bugs.
<bdrung> ubuntu-sponsors (with s)
<udienz> bdrung, can i try to fix those bugs? and subscribed bugs? i'm not confident because those packages actually fixed by someone else
<bdrung> udienz: subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to these bugs and find other ftbfs packages where no fix is available.
<bdrung> udienz: doing work twice gives us no benefit.
<udienz> ok
<ari-tczew> udienz: ah, I'd forgot: please forward your patch to Debian
<ari-tczew> udienz: there are 1400 other ftbfs to fix :P
<udienz> ari-tczew, Hehehe, ok. Done sending to debian http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=555284
<bdrung> udienz: it's better to attach the patch (without debian/changelog modifications) to the debian bug instead of only linking to launchpad.
<ari-tczew> udienz: +1 for bdrung ^^ also please don't send all debdiff, just create a patch as in your 1st debdiff, attach and send next mail to this bug
<udienz> bdrung, ari-tczew: Done, i send patch again
 * Bachstelze hates autoconf
<Bachstelze> looking at FTbFS in autofs5, it fails to detect hesiod because it puts the linker flags at the wrong place
<Bachstelze> instead of cc test.c -lhesiod, it does cc -lhestiod test.c
<azeem> Bachstelze: that looks like a broken Makefile to me, rather
<azeem> why does it compile and link in the same step?
<Bachstelze> azeem: that's in the configure script
<azeem> pastebin it somewhere
<ebroder> Bachstelze: Is it just using AC_SEARCH_LIBS or something like that?
<Bachstelze> ebroder: no idea, I know very little about autoconf, but it's kinda frustrating
<Bachstelze> http://paste.ubuntu.com/547567/
<Bachstelze> line 2
<ebroder> Bachstelze: I'm looking at the source now. This isn't an inherent problem with autogoo - it's a problem with autofs's configure.in
<Bachstelze> if I could just make it do  gcc ... conftest.c -lhesiod -lresolv
<Bachstelze> it would work
<ebroder> Bachstelze: I think you want to edit AF_CHECK_LIBHESIOD in aclocal.m4, then re-run autoconf
<ebroder> Bachstelze: Probably set LIBS instead of LDFLAGS or something?
<Bachstelze> it's also weird why the order matters in Natty when the same source package built fine in Maverick
<bdrung> Bachstelze: the order was wrong since the beginning, but now it fails.
<bdrung> Bachstelze: it's common that something is used in a wrong way and one day it fails to build because the toolchain changed.
<Bachstelze> this package seems to have a lot of things wrong then :p it's the same one where d/rules doesn't have patch/unpatch
<Bachstelze> anyway, putting LIBS seems to fix it
<Bachstelze> bdrung: now what would be a good way to dpatch that? the build normally doesn't run autoconf, right?
<bdrung> Bachstelze: patch autoconf.ac/makefile.am and a) run autoreconf and store the diff in a second patch or b) modify debian/rules to run autoreconf
<ebroder> Bachstelze: Look into dh_autoreconf. But make sure you only run autoconf, not aclocal
<ebroder> (I don't know if dh_autoreconf can do that, or if it will only run autoreconf)
<ebroder> Ok, yeah - autoreconf only runs aclocal if you're using automake, so dh_autoreconf should do what you want
<Bachstelze> okay, all good
<Bachstelze> bdrung: is there a standard procedure to create a LP bug for a FTBFS?
<bdrung> Bachstelze: IIRC, no
<Bachstelze> bdrung: bug 694342 if you have the time to look at it, otherwise I subscribed ubuntu-sponsors
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694342 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in Natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694342
<ebroder> Bachstelze: You should be able to use /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make instead of calling dpatch yourself
<ebroder> Also, you should call dh_clean_autoreconf in the clean step to undo what dh_autoreconf did - I think there's an example in the dh_autoreconf manpage
<ebroder> In 18fix_hesiod_detect, I think you probably should restore LIBS back to the state it was in before, like it used to do for LDFLAGS
<Bachstelze> ebroder: posted a new one
<Bachstelze> hmm, there are also new upstream patches, maybe we should include them for Natty
<mka> hi
<mka> i want to become part of MOTU
<mka> but i think i need mentor
<mka> :)
<Bachstelze> mka: read the wiki, try to work on some packages, ask any questions you have :)
<Bachstelze> ebroder: uploaded a new debdiff with the upstream patches released since ubuntu2
<ari-tczew> dpatch sux
<ari-tczew> now my motto is - no quilt, no sponsor ;D
<Bachstelze> ffff, btrfs-utils FTBFS because upstream apparently failed Programming 101 and doesn't initialise a variable properly
<Bachstelze> and I'm afraid to change it since I don't know what a sane default would be
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: get in touch with upstream if you really want to spend time on this case
<Bachstelze> I don't :p
<Bachstelze> next
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: hehe, like me
<bdrung> tumbleweed: around?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: vaguely
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what do you think about having a testcase that checks for pylint errors?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: currently the "pylint -E" on all python files gives me this result: http://pastebin.com/sMmdpRPA
<bdrung> most errors come from the launchpad wrapper, but there are some bugs detected too.
<tumbleweed> personally I use pyflakes, as pylint is very noisy
<tumbleweed> but it also picks up less issues
<tumbleweed> then there's pychecker (which is responsible for one of the python2.7 FTBFSs, IIRC)
<tumbleweed> hmm, there are some real bugs in that paste
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "pylint -E" gives only errors (and does not show all those noise)
<tumbleweed> yeah I see that
<tumbleweed> I do like the idea of static analysis in the tests, and I've considered it too
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pyflakes seams to be not flexible enough.
<tumbleweed> no, it's very simple - pretty much just a syntax checker with some extras
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the test should only check for grave things, which "pylint -E" does, but pyflakes doesn't
<tumbleweed> yeah, except we'd need to whitelist all the launchpadlib related issues
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can't we fix them?
<tumbleweed> I think they are inherent in the design of launchpadlib
<bdrung> tumbleweed: they come from the launchpadlib wrapper, not from launchpadlib IIRC
<bdrung> oh, no. you are right
<tumbleweed> but yes there are ones related to the wrapper too
<tumbleweed> my guess from reading that is that it doesn't understand metaclasses
<bdrung> tumbleweed: uses launchpadlib metaclasses?
<tumbleweed> don't know, haven't read it, but lpapicache does
<Bachstelze> wow
<Bachstelze> the sendmail package is a huge mess
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we can do that pylint -E check. we can easily disable invalid errors. see r913 as example
<bdrung> tumbleweed: my command: pylint -E ubuntutools 404main ack-sync backportpackage dgetlp get-branches grab-attachments grep-merges hugdaylist import-bug-from-debian lp-list-bugs lp-project-upload lp-set-dup lp-shell manage-credentials massfile merge-changelog pbuilder-dist pull-debian-debdiff pull-lp-source requestsync sponsor-patch submittodebian suspicious-source syncpackage ubuntu-build ubuntu-iso update-maintainer wrap-and-sort
<ari-tczew> bdrung: use pastebin ;D
<bdrung> ari-tczew: for one short line? :P
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I'm kidding
<bdrung> me too
<tumbleweed> bdrung: doing that whenever you use launchpadlib is horrible. I'd rather just run a regex on the pylint output
<bdrung> tumbleweed: if you prefer reqex, you can do that too
<Bachstelze> sendmail has the same linker problem as autofs, just the wrong flags order
<Bachstelze> I would bet a lot of money that a lot of the FTBFSs are the same
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: looking on lucas__' ftbfs script you can see the reason :P
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-26
<Bachstelze> I haven't looked at all of them but that's probably why we hase so many FTBFSs
<Bachstelze> packages that used to build fine but don't with the new toolchain
<Bachstelze> have*
<Bachstelze> awesome, it works
<Bachstelze> I guess I should forward it to Debian since we haven't diverted
<Bachstelze> not sure they'll accept it, though, it works fine for them apparently
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: lucas__ page shows packages which have been built fine in the past. now if you'd build on natty toolchain, result is fail
<ari-tczew> so you're right
<ari-tczew> how to deal SRU with backports?
<ari-tczew> which version shall I choice?
<ari-tczew> (0.6-0ubuntu2~maverick1) maverick-backports -> (0.6-0ubuntu2.1) maverick-proposed is OK?
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I don't understand the question. Are you asking about making an SRU from a backport, or making a backport from an SRU?
<ari-tczew> ebroder: this second
<ari-tczew> ebroder: no, stop
<ari-tczew> wrong
<ari-tczew> ebroder: clementine is backported package. I want to push a SRU
<ari-tczew> for maverick
<ebroder> backports are separate from the SRU process, and we usually don't use backports as the basis for an SRU because SRUs should have minimal patches
<ebroder> If the backport is buggy, then fix it in the dev release and get a new backport
<ari-tczew> ebroder: lol, I have minimal patch for SRU
<Bachstelze> debian 608011
<ubottu> Debian bug 608011 in sendmail "FTBFS in Ubuntu Natty" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/608011
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I'm afraid you're still not making sense to me
<Bachstelze> do we wait to see if they apply it, or create an ubuntu1 for now?
<ari-tczew> ebroder: imagine (theory) that dev release has a big upgrade and you want to backport it. not always it's possible then we should get minimal patches.
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: you can wait a couple of days since we have devel distro.
<Bachstelze> ok
<Bachstelze> I'll create a bug on P and link it
<Bachstelze> LP*
<ebroder> ari-tczew: There is always a minimal patch to fix a bug. It may be a big patch, but it should still be minimal. It may be the same as the difference between two releases, but it should still be minimal
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: however, in bugtitle 'in ubuntu natty' is not 100% cool. better is use bugtitle like 'sendmail: FTBFS with binutils-gold and linking in gcc 4.5'
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: and please attach in Debian mail only patch to fix bug. no full debdiff
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: or maybe if you want prepare NMU, you should follow with Debian policy
<ari-tczew> ebroder: in clementine case backport is possible way, but in my last sentence I gave only an example
<Laney> that is not really NMUable
<Laney> and it should be severity wishlist or minor
<ari-tczew> ebroder: should do I open a new bug?
<ari-tczew> (for backport)
<ari-tczew> ebroder: if you want to writer YES, I tell that this is bureaucracy
<ari-tczew> write*
<ebroder> ari-tczew: I still can't understand what it is you're trying to do
<ari-tczew> ebroder: ...
<ari-tczew> ebroder: I _ want _ to _ fix _ a _ bug _ in _ backported _ package _ called _ clementine _ which _ exist _ in _ maverick-backports
<ebroder> Thank you! That's what I was trying to figure out
<ebroder> Ask for a new backport
<ari-tczew> ebroder: what do you mean ask? open bug? open question on LP?
<ebroder> Open a backport bug
<ari-tczew> this is a joke
<ari-tczew>  /usr/bin/ranlib: libclementine_lib.a: No space left on device
<ari-tczew> I have 2GB free on part
<Bachstelze> wvdial: same thing
<Bachstelze> yay for easy karma \o/
<Bachstelze> actually that's not going to give me much karma if everything must be forwarded to debian, eh
<Bachstelze> ari-tczew: is it cool to say in the body of the message that the bug can be seen on Natty?
<Laney> Bachstelze: getting stuff fixed in Debian gives you more karm
<ari-tczew> if current binaries built fine, no
<Laney> at least in my eyes
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: don't worry about numbers
<Bachstelze> that was a joke ;)
<Bachstelze> ari-tczew: so what exactly should I put then?
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: in mail forwarding to BTS?
<Bachstelze> yeah
<Laney> you can say that you found this problem when building for Ubuntu, and that the fix is in the attached patch
<Laney> and politely ask them to apply it
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: http://paste.ubuntu.com/547622/
<Bachstelze> ari-tczew: thanks
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: You're welcome.
<ari-tczew> ebroder: saying gentle, I'm don't respecting rules and I'm trying to backport package using one bug.
<ari-tczew> s/don't/not
<Bachstelze> another one down
<Bachstelze> guess I'll get some sleep, 'night folks
<Bachstelze> bug 694398 if nyone is interested to sponsor it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694398 in cyrus-sasl2 (Ubuntu) "FTBFS in Natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694398
<udienz> [ftbfs] one down.. bug 694413
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694413 in firestarter (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package firestarter 1.0.3-8ubuntu1 in natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694413
<micahg> udienz: could you also upstream your patch to debian 554370 with teh appropriate tags: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging
<ubottu> Debian bug 554370 in src:firestarter "FTBFS with binutils-gold" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/554370
 * micahg goes to test build firestarter, thanks for the patch udienz
<udienz> micahg, Thanks! I think it's better when this patch is done reviewed by ubuntu-sponsors
<micahg> udienz: yeah, oops, I spoke too soon, it should be a patch, not applied directly to source
<micahg> I'll comment in the bug
<udienz> micahg, Done, i have submitted again. and already tested via natty pbuilder
<micahg> udienz: usually we just use the next number available for patches unless it needs to be at the end (like autoreconf)
<udienz> micahg, soorry for delay reply. i will uploaded again and renaming it
<micahg> udienz: it's ok, I've made the cahnges and added the patch name to the changelog
<micahg> I'm testing it now
<micahg> udienz: I'll upload in several hours, I don't like to upload right before bed
<udienz> micahg, ok no problem
<micahg> udienz: thank you for the patch
<udienz> micahg, :) thanks for reviewing
<dnivra> is this the channel where i can ask for packaging support?
<ari-tczew> dnivra: yes. also exist #ubuntu-packaging
<dnivra> ari-tczew: #ubuntu-packaging it is then. thanks!
<ari-tczew> ScottK: I encourage you to consider about approve some devs from community, like micahg or ebroder
<ari-tczew> and clean up 'pending approval' from bots ;)
<micahg> apachelogger: sorry about the firefox installer override being dropped, I'll add it back
<apachelogger> micahg: thanks :)
<micahg> are LDFLAGS fixes ok as a patch as opposed to being overridden in debian/rules?
<geser> LDFLAGS fixes?
<micahg> geser: LDFLAGS additions
<geser> like?
<micahg> bug 694413
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694413 in firestarter (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] package firestarter 1.0.3-8ubuntu1 in natty" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694413
<geser> I didn't try the patch out, but it most likely won't work
<micahg> geser: it builds fine
<geser> I'm surprised
<geser> and LIBS would be a better place to add additional libraries instead of LDFLAGS
 * Bachstelze nods
<Bachstelze> -l* flags belong in LIBS, not LDFLAGS
<micahg> ah, ok
<Bachstelze> and yes, this is very ugly
<Bachstelze> normally you would modify configure so that it puts the libs in the variables passed to MAkefile.in
<geser> and another small issue: if the package needs to link with -lX11 -lXext -ldl the matching -dev packages should be listed in Build-Depends (for X11 and Xext)
<micahg> could one of you comment on the patch then explaining why another way is better?
<micahg> geser: that's another good point
<micahg> ok, nm, I'll aggregate the comments here, thanks guys
<paissad> hello, i see there are many tools to maintain a personal repository for .deb packages, (ftp-archive, apt-move, dpkg-scanpackages, mini-dinstall) ... what do you advice me ?
<Nafallo> ppa on launchpad :-)
<paissad> Nafallo, i do use it aleady
<paissad> Nafallo, i ask this question for testing purpose
<Nafallo> fair enough. I'd just set up a testing ppa though... *shrugs*
<Nafallo> sorry for not being helpful.
<crouk> Hi all
<crouk> im new here
<crouk> could someone help me with some question about MOTUs??
<Nafallo> !ask | crouk
<ubottu> crouk: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<crouk> nice thanks! :)
<Nafallo> ;-)
<crouk> just getting involved on PyGtk and RubyGtk development
<crouk> I just finish a new .deb package
<crouk> and i don't know how to upload in the universe repository or just someone who do it for me
<crouk> If the package is ok, sure...
<Bachstelze> crouk: how "new" are we talking?
<crouk> well, is 4 month old
<crouk> is a MP3 tagger
<crouk> do it with Ruby-gnome2 +glade
<crouk> i do it a *.deb and I use it only in my comuter
<crouk> I checked the MOTUs web and I don't know is this kind of contribution should we checked by another MOTU
<crouk> or i can just register and contribute with them
<Bachstelze> crouk: if it's a really new package, as opposed to a newer verison of an existing package, the best way is to submit it to Debian
<Bachstelze> and then let it sync in Ubuntu automagically
<crouk> OK. And how do I submit it to Debian?
<Bachstelze> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<crouk> nice :)
<crouk> im reading the dupload doc now
<crouk> so just upload the package with dupload and the Debian community will check it?
<Bachstelze> no
<Bachstelze> you can't use dupload because you are not a DD
<Bachstelze> so you need to get a sponsor for your package
<Bachstelze> this explains it: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq
<Bachstelze> hmm, wouldn't it be better to just create ubuntu1 revisions for all the packages that FTBFS with LD_ERROR than flooding Debian with patches that are mostly not relevant to them?
<Bachstelze> I have the feeling that most of them won't be applied, so we'll find ourselves with one week before FF and a lot of patches to apply
<azeem_> what's the reason for that LD_ERROR?
<Bachstelze> azeem_: the new toolchain in Natty is much less tolerant of bad practice
<Bachstelze> generally the packages put -l* flags in LDFLAGS instead of LIBS
<azeem_> won't Debian have that toolchain at some point as well?
<micahg> Bachstelze: wheezy will probably be similar, so they should be sent to Debian but with wishlist prioirty ATM
<crouk> Bachstelze: thanks. Im reading now about to get sponsored
<tumbleweed> bdrung: test_update_maintainer: You should probably unpatch os.path.isfile (ubuntutools.update_maintainer.os.path is os.path). I also see some trailing whitespace.
<ebroder> ari-tczew: Oh, sorry - missed that you were looking at bug #694504
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694504 in mango-lassi (Ubuntu) "Sync mango-lassi 001+dfsg-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694504
<ebroder> I'll reset the status back to where you had it
<ari-tczew> ebroder: what's the sense if you acked it?
<ari-tczew> please learn to set in progress and assign to you if you're looking
<micahg> ari-tczew: please unsubscribe -sponsors if you take a bug ;)
<ari-tczew> micahg: this is the second thing
<ebroder> micahg: I'm pretty sure this was my fault - I think I was looking at it before ari-tczew was
<ebroder> Because it was unassigned when I pulled it up
<micahg> I set to in progress, assign to me, and unsubscribe sponsors
<ebroder> ari-tczew: Sorry. I sometimes forget when I'm looking at tickets that I think will be fast
<ari-tczew> ebroder: officiousness is worse than fascism
<ari-tczew> just anecdote
<ari-tczew> ebroder: btw. if you are bored, I can find activity for you
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: wrt your gnome-user-share mail, I just replied to it
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: yes I know. unfortunately my pbuilder doesn't know about it :(
<ari-tczew> (now I know)
<DktrKranz> I think pbuilder ignores it
<ari-tczew> perhaps
<sebner> ari-tczew: I'm really surprised to see a polish guy saying that officiousness is worse than fascism
<ari-tczew> sebner: why?
<ari-tczew> this is quote is very popular in Poland
<sebner> this surprises me even more
<sebner> if you think about your past ..
<ari-tczew> sebner: have you got problem with Poland?
<sebner> ari-tczew: not really, just wondering if you forgot what happened 70 years ago
<ari-tczew> sebner: hmm. I'm really interested what do you mean. maybe in your country is another history.
<sebner> ari-tczew: not really, I'm from Austria ;)
<sebner> ari-tczew: officiousness was a result of the fascism at that time imho
<sebner> but we are quite OT
<ari-tczew> aha
<Bachstelze> # wc -l debian/patches/01-wsdl-stubs.patch
<Bachstelze> 339162 debian/patches/01-wsdl-stubs.patch
<Bachstelze> wow
<Bachstelze> that's a big patch
 * kklimonda doesn't know any Polish quotes about officiousness and fascism, and if there are any he doesn't agree with them.
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'd like to not close bugs by you if fixed is not yet available. I mean bug 694118
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694118 in clementine (Ubuntu Natty) "plays songs concarently" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694118
<micahg> ari-tczew: I closed the maverick task since it was invalid
<ari-tczew> micahg: it confuses new users
<ari-tczew> which clementine has got
<micahg> ari-tczew: yes, but that task is for the maverick archive, not backports
<ari-tczew> micahg: omg please open your eyes and see that there is no only policies and procedures
<ari-tczew> micahg: what about launchpad bug janitor?
<ari-tczew> doesn't close this bug after backport?
<micahg> ari-tczew: no
<ari-tczew> micahg: are you sure?
<micahg> ari-tczew: I think the new helper might close backport bugs, but a bug task is only for an SRU, not a backport
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm out of words to describe this stiffness and bureaucracy
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's a different workflow for SRU bugs and backports
<ari-tczew> micahg: say it to newbies
<ari-tczew> I know that you're master and for you everything is clear, but not for everyone
<ari-tczew> I don't want scary new users
<ari-tczew> and you don't help in this case
<ari-tczew> I want to tell gtfo
<micahg> ari-tczew: you can file a bug against launchpad to have the release tasks target different pockets if you like
<micahg> ari-tczew: the way to do that is with a note in the description, not using a release task
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: I think the best thing to do in these cases is to close the task with a clear comment saying "backport tracked in LP: #foo, we don't use tasks to track backports"
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: tell this one to micahg
<tumbleweed> micahg is presumably listening :P
 * Bachstelze cries
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: reading
<micahg> ari-tczew: I closed it with a comment about adding an appropriate backports task/bug
<Bachstelze> spent all afternoon fixing linking errors in eucalyptus
<Bachstelze> and now there's also some java errors that make the build fail
<ari-tczew> Bachstelze: unfortunately, life is brutal
<ari-tczew> micahg: you could include also new tracking bug number
<ari-tczew> flow of information is very important
 * ari-tczew doesn't know how that master couldn't consider about it
<Bachstelze> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Bachstelze> !pastebinit
<ubottu> pastebinit is the command-line equivalent of !pastebin - Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output - To use pastebinit, install the Â« pastebinit Â» package from a package manager - Simple usage: command | pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com
<micahg> ari-tczew: sorry, I didn't connect the two, I could've given bug #
<ari-tczew> micahg: bravo!!!1111!
<micahg> !msgthebot | Bachstelze
<ubottu> Bachstelze: Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubottu Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubottu !search factoid".
<micahg> ari-tczew: would you like me to do that now?
<ari-tczew> micahg: pleased, yes
<micahg> ari-tczew: done
<ari-tczew> micahg: thanks, now you can send delation to CC
<micahg> ari-tczew: ?
<ari-tczew> micahg: Questionable behavior from an Ubuntu member
<ari-tczew> hehehe
<akoskm> hi
<akoskm> If I copy my *.so files to the /usr/lib/jni and then run the ldconfig in that directory, and after adding a configuration file to /etc/ld.so.conf.d/, specifying the path to /usr/lib/jni, If I start a java application the jvm should include the /usr/lib/jni path to not just the /usr/lib, isn't?
<Bachstelze> akoskm: you should run ldconfig /after/ adding a file in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/
<akoskm> Bachstelze, oh. that would be all? and doing by this way It will include the /usr/lib/jni too?
<Bachstelze> not sure about Java, but that's how it would work in C
<akoskm> okay, I'll try this out. thank you.
<ebroder> akoskm: It seems a little weird to me that you'd have to change the linker configuration to enable Java's plugin system
<akoskm> ebroder, why? I have no experience around packaging, if there any other ways to include the native libraries installed by my package let me know.
<ebroder> akoskm: I don't know. But I would expect that you're just using the wrong directory or something
<ebroder> I don't really know anything about Java. But have you looked at the Debian Java policy to see if it talks at all about JNI?
<akoskm> yes
<ebroder> akoskm: Looking for a random package that uses JNI, it looks like libswt3.2-gtk-jni just drops files in /usr/lib/jni
 * ebroder shrugs. I probably don't know what I'm talking about
<bdrung> tumbleweed: fixed. thanks.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: there was only one trailing whitespace line, correct?
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's all I saw
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I posted a pyflakes tester
<bdrung> tumbleweed: thanks for your pylint tester
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pyflakes?
<tumbleweed> err pylint
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you remove the items that are default values from the pylint config file?
<tumbleweed> I was just saying I was alcoholically impaired in another channel, let me repeat that here :)
<tumbleweed> probably, I should actually investigate that
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and maybe it's better to disable unwanted test than enable wanted ones.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: besides that it looks good
<tumbleweed> that's just the config file I wrote, I didn't disable any tests
<tumbleweed> s/I/it/
<tumbleweed> bdrung: err "del ubuntutools.control.os.path.isfile" is that right?
<tumbleweed> shouldn't be a save that value and restore it
<bdrung> tumbleweed: replacing pylint.conf with an empty files thrown more errors
<ebroder> tumbleweed, bdrung: Have you guys looked at python-mox? It's a better way for replacing built-in functions like that
<ebroder> (I haven't actually looked at the tests yet, but I assume that's what you're doing)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: "del ubuntutools.control.os.path.isfile" is what i learned from you
<bdrung> tumbleweed: why should i save the function link?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: aah, I added open to the module, I didn't replace teh open builtin
<tumbleweed> ebroder: yeah, I wasn't doing anything *that* fancy, so I didn't look for libraries to help
<bdrung> ebroder: it's the first time i hear about python-mox. link to doc?
<ebroder> bdrung: http://code.google.com/p/pymox/wiki/MoxRecipes
<ebroder> bdrung: Look at the "Mock a module-level function in a different module" example, for instance - that's the idiom I've used most frequently
<bdrung> ebroder: merge proposals are welcome ;)
<ebroder> bdrung: Afraid I don't have time for that at the moment; just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of Mox before you started duplicating what it does
<bdrung> ebroder: i will consider using it the next time i work on a python test
 * bdrung is setting a bookmark
<ebroder> bdrung: Oh, and on the subject of testing tools, there's also https://github.com/mockfs/mockfs, which isn't packaged and which I've never used, but is probably also useful for faking out filesystem-based tests
<ebroder> (docs at http://mockfs.github.com/)
<tumbleweed> nice
<ebroder> Although it looks like it only stubs out functions in os and os.path instead of, say, open, which makes it less useful
<bdrung> ebroder: do you have a real world example for mox?
<tumbleweed> oh, that's a bit less useful, yes
<tumbleweed> it has an open-like function you could patch in, though
<bdrung> ebroder: how to use StubOutWithMock on "open"?
<ebroder> bdrung: You should be able to do StubOutWithMock(__builtins__, 'open'), I think
<ebroder> http://pastebin.com/1DJZDxbs
<bdrung> ebroder: self._mox.StubOutWithMock(__builtins__, "open") fails: AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute 'open'
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-19
<dnewkirk> Hi. If I'm looking to help with packaging or fixing bugs, where is the best place to look for things needing to be done (that isn't going to interfere with other's work)? I've worked through the wiki and have the precise toolchain setup on my machine...
<tumbleweed> dnewkirk: 2:30am for me, so I'm off to bed. But: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO has some links. I usually say, the best place to start is with something that affects you personally, and you want to fix it. e.g. a package in universe that you use, and isn't being cared for (lots of open bugs)
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> micahg: I think I get that. We need people to be able to propose merges to the configs branch... What's the best way of doing that?
<micahg> Laney: not sure I see the issue, once you have a regular non-junk branch, you should be able to propose a merge
<Laney> NOW, BACK TO THIS!
<Laney> if I push this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-transition-trackers/ubuntu-transition-tracker/configs
<Laney> and then click 'Propose for merging' it tries to merge with lp:ubuntu-transition-tracker
<micahg> it would default to the branch it's stacked on, that can be changed though
<Laney> can I make it unstack?
<Laney> it's a completely separate repository
<micahg> sure, but wouldn't people just need to propose merges *to* that branch and not *from*?
<Laney> to this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-transition-trackers/ubuntu-transition-tracker/configs
<Laney> which says it is stacked
<Laney> I assume that is why the other one is linked to lp:u-t-t
<Laney> reconfigured it, let's see what that does
<Laney> bah
<directhex> bzr \o/
<tumbleweed> Laney: if you make the configs branch the development focus, that should do the trick for merges, right?
<tumbleweed> whether its stacked or not shouldn't matter, surely?
<toabctl> what should i do to update a package (network-manager-openconnect) to a new version for precise?
<toabctl> there's a ftbfs of the package on armhf because of the glib thread api change this is already fixed upstream so a new version should fix the FTBFS
<micahg> toabctl: talk to cyphermox as I think he touched it last
<toabctl> micahg, ok.
<toabctl> micahg, there's no way to create a branch and send a merge request'?
<micahg> toabctl: ah, this isn't the version in Debian, still worth asking cyphermox in case he was already preparing an update, otherwise, yeah, a merge proposal/debdiff would be the way to go
<ScottK> micahg: Is it on purpose that a package used in Xubuntu and Lubuntu (abiword) got put in the new desktop-extras packageset?
<micahg> ScottK: eh, not necessarily on purpose, but I don't see us having exclusivity on it
<micahg> anyways, the current uploaders can already break those flavors with -desktop updates, so I don't see it as such a problem, we'll caution desktop-extra only people to play nice with the flavors :)
<micahg> anyways, all uploaders should be aware of whether or not their uploads are in a another packageset at least and the impact of that (at least I would hope), not necessarily impact beyond that though
<ScottK> As long as they know it's not an exclusive type thing.
<micahg> yeah
<Laney> tumbleweed: indeed, but then doing it for ben becomes annoying. is this just a limitation of lp?
<tumbleweed> Laney: it will remember the popular merge locations, after a while, I think
<tumbleweed> I'm entirely rusty on this, though
 * achiang wonders if ubuntu-dev-tools should Recommend or Suggest quilt
<tumbleweed> achiang: why?
<tumbleweed> edit-patch?
<achiang> tumbleweed: well, i'm just thinking out loud, but if you're working on packages, chances are high you'll need quilt.
<tumbleweed> that moved to devscripts
<tumbleweed> achiang: that's what packaging-dev is for
<achiang> oh
<achiang> tumbleweed: thanks, i didn't know that one
<tumbleweed> it's relatively new
<Rhonda> ScottK: Hmm, I wonder if I could/should upload the source to my PPA nevertheless - and let Debian lag behind this time. :)
<ScottK> I'd just switch to the versioned depends.
<ajmitch> debating boost still?
<ScottK> My view has been that switching boost versions is not something you ever want to do by accident.
<Rhonda> There is no 1.48 in Ubuntu ;)
<ScottK> True, but there's discussion about if we should switch or not.
<ajmitch> no 1.48 yet, there's still time to get it in by accident :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.  Totally uncoordinated transition attempt in Debian is going about as well as one might expect.
<Rhonda> Right, but I would hope that a.) either the bugreport I just filed get fixed in Debian then, or b.) someone doing a merge including that patch. :)
<ajmitch> I don't think anyone actually wants to coordinate a transition in ubuntu as well
<Rhonda> s/then/by then/
<ajmitch> I see that 1.48 is in testing, at least
<Rhonda> ScottK: Uhm, you just seem to have argued differently (to "switching boost versions is not something you ever want to do by accident")
<Rhonda> Or I did misunderstand you in #debian-devel
<Rhonda> s/stand/stood/
 * ajmitch suspects a little bit of sarcasm
<Rhonda> Oh, just found out that there was mor sarcasm involved in ScottK's statements, I just wasn't following the boost mess too closely to notice, though.
<ajmitch> ScottK: at least unity uses versioned build-depends :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: So do all the KDE packages that use it (in Ubuntu).
<Rhonda> Duh, usually I am quite sarcastic myself and now fell for it.  *bangs head against wall*
<ScottK> Sorry.
<ajmitch> has discussion about 1.48 in ubuntu only been on irc?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.
 * ajmitch has probably skimmed over much of the discussion in #ubuntu-devel
<micahg> ScottK: might be worth a mail to ubuntu-release
<ScottK> micahg: I resigned from caring about boost beyond repeating that I don't have time to pay attention to it.
<ajmitch> it's something I could possibly do over the next couple of weeks that I'm off work, if it's necessary
 * Rhonda . o O ( wget -r irclogs.ubuntu.com; ack-grep -a 'boost.*1\.48' irclogs.ubuntu.com )
<ajmitch> since ScottK seemed to want to drop me in it anyway
<micahg> ajmitch: would you care to mail ubuntu-devel/ubuntu-release about it then?
<ajmitch> once I look at how much work it is :)
<Rhonda> Will there be a UDS in Vienna?
<micahg> ajmitch: here's what the last one looked like: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/boost1.46.html
<ajmitch> micahg: yeah, I was looking at that ubuntu-devel thread from august
<ajmitch> installing ubuntu-dev-tools on a clean vm pulls in quite a few packages these days
<ockham> Rhonda: why Vienna?
<Rhonda> Because then I can sleep at home, and at least attend.
<Rhonda> and because it's a great town!
<broder> Rhonda: budapest wasn't *too* far away :)
<Rhonda> well, far enough and bad timing with my kiddo that I wasn't able to attend :(
<psusi> can someone explain to me how this kind of bug report is at all useful? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gparted/+bug/788454
<ubottu> Error: ubuntu bug 788454 not found
<psusi> it's an automatic crash apport report... crazy complex gtk stack trace just doesn't seem usable to debug the problem... no information on how to reproduce, no core dump...
<micahg> psusi: core dumps are removed after apport retraces crashes
<micahg> psusi: steps to reproduce are in the description as well
<psusi> micahg: without the core dump, how am I supposed to figure out what went wrong?
<psusi> I can't load it up in gdb and poke around, and so if I can't reproduce the error...
<broder> i thought that was fairly clear from the stack trace - it's an assertion failure in gdk_rectangle_union
<psusi> broder: yea, but why?
<broder> my guess would be use-after-free
<broder> that or something is just passing bogus data to gdk_rectangle_union, but that seems less likely
<psusi> hrm... maybe a run with valgrind would help if that were the case....
<broder> i mean, i'm taking shots in the dark here, but the rest of the stack trace doesn't really look suspicious, and it was deep gtk internals calling the gdk function, so i'm assuming the likelihood that gtk is screwing up its calls into gdk are pretty low
<psusi> I'm sure it's a bug in gparted... but it looks like the kind of thing that it made some object with some weird values and then tried to update the display... but figuring that out from the stack trace doesn't really seem possible
<broder> window_rect in frame 8 is pretty suspicious looking
<broder> if it's a use-after-free, a core dump wouldn't help you
<broder> those values in window_rect look suspiciously like pointers to me
<psusi> I wish I could just load up the coredump in gdb...
<broder> but what would you look for?
<broder> if it's use-after-free, the evidence has already been scribbled over
<gnuvince> Quick question; I created a LXC to do my packaging in, and I'm now following the pbuilder instructions on the wiki to create an environment in that container, however at the very end, I get an error that "debootstrap failed" (that's the entire error message).
<gnuvince> Are there packages that I must install in order for pbuilder to properly create?
<psusi> so there's no way to get the core dump back?  looks like this trace was done with some missing symbols for libparted, rendering the results less than useful: https://i87173081.restricted.launchpadlibrarian.net/87173081/Stacktrace.txt?token=8d7170a315a4651dd7935ddae004bbd6
<micahg> psusi: no, have you tried reproducing with the test case in the description?
<micahg> Rhonda: ScottK: ajmitch: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/12/msg00545.html :), sanity has returned (at least for the time being)
<ajmitch> micahg: so it may not hit testing before DIF then
<ajmitch> I'm surprised that they managed to get libreoffice built in that time :)
<micahg> ajmitch: it would have to be reverted and reuploaded before Dec 31 :)
<ajmitch> still likely, but less likely to get the transition coordinated with the release team by then
<ajmitch> it may still be worth emailing ubuntu-release about it though
<ajmitch> the libreoffice failure was a gcc ICE, that won't be fun to dig out
<micahg> yeah, and ubuntu-devel so that people are aware if they sync boost packages after DIF, there might be issues
<micahg> but presumably people test build before syncing...
<ajmitch> you're an optimist...
<ScottK> It's an interesting theory
<micahg> I said presumably :)
<micahg> certainly didn't hold up over the weekend :)
<ajmitch> what broke?
<micahg> nothing broke, but a few of syncs that FTBFS
<ajmitch> ftbfs count is still looking a bit high
<micahg> ajmitch: yeah, it doubled when the armhf ones were added, still most of those affected all the archs, but the rest were built previously
 * ajmitch might need to just do package reviewing & bug fixing for the holidays then, instead of boost :)
<Riddell> what's the script to rebuild something in a PPA?
<ajmitch> Riddell: maybe backportpackage?
<Riddell> hmm no
<ajmitch> Riddell: are you trying to rebuild something that's already in a PPA, and you just want to do an automatic dch -i ?
<Riddell> it failed and the failure is transient so I want an automatic click the retry button
<ajmitch> ah right
<tumbleweed> we have the ubuntu-build command, but that only works on the main archive
<Riddell> hmm, I thought there was one for PPAs too, wonder why not
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-20
<tumbleweed> give us a patch for ubuntu-build? :)
<micahg> Riddell: I don't know if there's a version of ubuntu-build for PPAs
<gnuvince> When I run pbuilder-dist create, I get an error at the end of the process: "E: debootstrap failed" (no more info than that).  Does anyone know of common causes of this problem?
<micahg> out of date mirror, archive skew, unable to validate packages
<gnuvince> What's a good up-to-date mirror to use? I didn't specify one, so I assume it must be ca.ubuntu.com
<gnuvince> (from Canada)
<micahg> gnuvince: you asked for common issues, that's not necessarily your issue
<gnuvince> I'll run the command again with --debug
<gnuvince> see if I can gather more information
<udienz> tumbleweed, i got errors while accessing ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi in alioth, seems like database problem
<udienz> tumbleweed, forget about it, it's work now
<cjwatson> Laney: I've filed an RT to get libfileutils-ocaml-dev installed, which the new transition tracker needs
<cjwatson> Laney: regarding your branch question, I'd either recommend creating a series for the configs (which would provide an easy merge target but is a bit of an abuse) or just use a separate project - probably the latter
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey geser
<Laney> cjwatson: righto, I thought of making a new project but it seemed a bit much
<kirkland> does anyone have a particularly good dkms package I might emulate?
<kirkland> the last time I did dkms package was kvm-84, which was hardy-era dkms
<kirkland> I'm wondering if it's changed much?
<TiMiDo> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnomeplacesscreenlet or https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DKMS
<TiMiDo> ;)
<alucardni> Hi, is there a way to make pbuilder work behind a proxy?
<alucardni> If been able to create the pbuilder environment using the --http-proxy parameter
<alucardni> but it doesn't work when I try to build a package :-/
<udienz> alucardni, try $ EXPORT http_proxy="http:your_proxy:port"
<alucardni> udienz: ok, I'll give it a try
<alucardni> udienz: it worked! thank you very much :-)
<udienz> alucardni, great! if your machine *always* in behind proxy you can add it in ~/.bashrc
<lucas> could someone take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpich2/+bug/816750 ? I don't have a lucid chroot, so I can't test, but this looks like a simple rebuild is required for mpich2 on lucid.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 816750 in mpich2 (Ubuntu) "mpich2 library needs recompile with gfortran 4.5" [Undecided,New]
<tumbleweed> lucas: sure, rebuilding it...
<tumbleweed> lucas: btw, the bug says 11.04
<lucas> tumbleweed: oh, misread it. then maybe it's fixed already
<lucas> ah, probably not
<tumbleweed> I can't reproduce it on natty amd64
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-21
<psusi> is it an error to try to use gtk code in a thread you create with pthread_create()?  isn't there some thread local initialization that needs done so you should use g_thread_new?
<RAOF> psusi: I don't *believe* so, but you obviously need to take the necessary locks.
<psusi> what locks?
<RAOF> The gdk lock.
<psusi> what's that?
<RAOF> It's an error to call (almost?) any gtk function without the lock held.
<psusi> I got this: [xcb] Unknown request in queue while dequeuing
<psusi> [xcb] Most likely this is a multi-threaded client and XInitThreads has not been called
<RAOF> http://www.gtk.org/api/2.6/gdk/gdk-Threads.html
<psusi> holy shit, you're kidding?
<RAOF> Specifically - gdk_threads_enter() and gdk_threads_leave()
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  You'll need to tell gtk to actually initialise the XCB threads, too :)
<psusi> how do you do that?  is that done automatically by g_thread_new?
<RAOF> "As always, you must also surround any calls to GTK+ not made within a signal handler with a gdk_threads_enter()/gdk_threads_leave() pair. "
<RAOF> "You must call g_thread_init() and gdk_threads_init() before executing any other GTK+ or GDK functions in a threaded GTK+ program. "
<RAOF> Threading and GTK is a bit of a minefield.
<psusi> so you can't have two threads running their own message loop in parallel with gtk?
<psusi> it sounds like it
<RAOF> You mean, have two different gtk mainloops running on different threads?
<psusi> yea
<psusi> each thread controlling its own window
<RAOF> I don't think so; there's no context for any of the gtk calls.  How would you distinguish which mainloop to dispatch to?
<psusi> X takes care of that
<psusi> the message goes into the queue for the window that corresponds to the thread... thread picks up message, dispatches, etc
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure there are gtk calls that aren't associated with a Window; how would they be dispatched?
<psusi> as long as you don't try to bounce the window back and forth between threads, it should be fairly straight forward... it was in windows
<psusi> well if they don't have anything to do with a window, then they shouldn't be using the message queue should they?
<RAOF> Why not?  The mainloop's not just for X message processing.
<psusi> well, how does i tknow what message queue to use then?  it has to find a queue somehow
<RAOF> It uses the default, singleton, gtk glib mainloop.
<psusi> and there's only one?  there should be one per thread
<RAOF> You *can* create other glib mainloops, but as far as I'm aware there's exactly one gtk mainloop.
<psusi> in windows, every thread has its own message queue/loop
<RAOF> No, there's definitely not one per thread.
<psusi> ohh, yea, there's only one initially, sure
<psusi> but if you want, you can make another one in another thread so it can run concurrently can't you?
 * psusi is coasting mostly on 10 year old windows programming knowledge trying to debug gparted
<RAOF> No; everything I see says "exactly one thread can call a GTK function at a time; protect calls with gdk_threads_enter/leave"
<psusi> hrm... I guess that's the limitation of using a class toolkit... now that I think about it, I think MFC had the same problem
<psusi> but I always just used straight winapi
<RAOF> Yeah.  My memory is that Win32 didn't give you a general-purpose mainloop; you just got the window-system events there, and could(?) build a proper mainloop on that if you wanted.
<RAOF> It's been *some time* since I played with win32, though.
<psusi> so it's pretty much an error to pthread_create a background thread and have it emit a signal without any of that lock stuff right?
<psusi> and basically if you want to make any blocking calls while handling events in the background thread, it's pointless since it would block while holding the gtk lock, thus preventing the other threads from doing gui things?
<RAOF> Well, the background thread could emit a signal - it's ambiguous between gobject signals and posix signals, but I think either are fine - just not call any gtk functions without the lock.
<broder> does gobject have an equivalent to qt's queued signals? i.e. wait until you hit the main loop and then handle this signal emission?
<broder> it makes cross-thread signals in qt very easy to reason about
<RAOF> g_idle_add would do it, roughly speaking.
<broder> i guess you could take the lame way out and use g_idle_add
<broder> :)
<RAOF> Similarly, if you make all your blocking calls in the background thread you can happily rock along, taking the lock as appropriate when the background thread wants to signal completion.
 * RAOF just notices that psusi has left :(
<TiMiDo> lol
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> udienz__: hi!, just wanted to point out you have a couple merges where you're the person who touched it last in universe
<udienz__> micahg, yes, ~3 packages. gstm, clutter-gesture, and lighttpd
<jtaylor> maybe we should remove argparse from precise?
<jtaylor> the current debian version is py 2.6 only which would make all rdepends uninstallable I think
<ScottK> Yes.  It should go now that Ubuntu is 2.7 only.
<micahg> well, we still have python2.6 in precise
<jtaylor> but it won't stay?
<micahg> I don't think so, I've been meaning to ask about it
<jtaylor> if we remove it we could let python2.7 provide argparse saving us the trouble of fixing the argparse rdepends
<ScottK> micahg: It's still there, but it's not supported for module building.
<ScottK> So argparse can go as it's pointless.
<micahg> it still has a few rdepends, so it can't go yet
<jtaylor> unless 2.7 provides it instead
<jtaylor> (on the other hand I still hope the 2.6 only change will be reverted in debian)
<micahg> jtaylor: I don't see a provides
<jtaylor> not yet :)
<jtaylor> 2.7 includes argparse so it could
<ScottK> I think having 2.7 provide argparse makes sense.
<ScottK> I'll defer to doko on that though.
 * ajmitch thought the argparse situation was mostly sorted on the debian-python list
<tumbleweed> it's different here, though
<tumbleweed> debian has 2.6, we don't
<tumbleweed> (well, it's in the archiv, but that doesn't count)
<ajmitch> they haven't made 2.7 provide argparse then?
<tumbleweed> no, that would have the wrong behavior in debian
<tumbleweed> for $python in `pyversions -v`; do setup.py test; done <- that'd break if 2.7 provided argparse in debian
<ajmitch> yes, it'd be a pain for a package to depend on python-argparse & pull in 2.7 instead
<ajmitch> python is such a fun mess
 * tumbleweed is busy playing with pypy, which adds an extra layer of fun
<jtaylor> better than javascript though ._.
<tumbleweed> I suppose I should send an e-mail saying what I've been doing...
<ajmitch> jtaylor: that's a pretty low bar :)
<jtaylor> < now has a package with javascript and python
<jtaylor> pure joy
<tumbleweed> is the javascript minified? :)
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: it'd be interesting to read
<jtaylor> yes and it has a nice .custom in the file name
<ajmitch> oh, that one :)
<jtaylor> so I have no idea if I can even use the packaged one
<tumbleweed> use it, and wait for bug reports :P
<ajmitch> since custom jqueryui can mean that a certain subset of it was chosen & minified
<ajmitch> it was ipython that you were looking at, wasn't it?
<jtaylor> yes
 * tumbleweed doesn't want to know why ipython has javascript
 * ajmitch is trying to come up with a good reason why it would
<jtaylor> it now has a mathematica-like web interface
<jtaylor> very nice, but I would not dare open that up beyond localhost :/
<ajmitch> that makes so much sense to have...
<jtaylor> it is very useful for data analysis
<tumbleweed> really?
<tumbleweed> what does it give you that a console doesn't?
<jtaylor> you can edit the same cell again
<jtaylor> so you end up with the end result instead of haviong to sieve through the history and removing the lines that did not work
<tumbleweed> ah, bpythonish
<ajmitch> from the look of screenshots on the website, it lets you have images in there?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> but qtconsole also had that feature already
<micahg> jtaylor: there are only about a 18 or so rdepends of argparse, so quite doable to do away with it
<micahg> jtaylor: if you get the handful of main rdeps fixed, it'll drop to universe and you can take it from there
 * ajmitch is sort of glad that we probably won't be switching to php 5.4 for precise
<tumbleweed> I assume it isn't as bad as 5.3 was?
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: it's still php, so a real pain to test with
<micahg> yeah, don't follow Debian into the take the PHP .0 release black hole
<ajmitch> micahg: not really my call, I've got an RC in my PPA to test though, so it at least builds :)
<jtaylor> micahg: k, if it will be removed I'll take care of universe
<tumbleweed> well, it won't be removed unless we deal with the rdepends
<micahg> jtaylor: well, I don't see it happening automatically, you probably want to have a conversation with doko, then drive it
<tumbleweed> (or cpython starts providing it)
<ajmitch> jtaylor: btw, I was told that the firefox developer tools will allow debugging minified javascript soon, so it may reduce your pain fractionally ;)
<jtaylor> how will that work?
<tumbleweed> as long as developers don't start giving that as an excuse for shipping minified js
<ajmitch> no idea
<ajmitch> http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/debug-languages-on-javascript-vm has some explanation of it
<jtaylor> mh you need a mapping
<jtaylor> so it will only work for upstreams that support it
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can i release u-d-t 0.138?
<ajmitch> yeah, not quite as useful as first thought
<tumbleweed> bdrung: sure, it's pretty minor
<tumbleweed> oh hang on
<tumbleweed> I meant to look at the open debian bugs
<bdrung> tumbleweed: do you want to fix lp 904288?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 904288 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[syncpackage] Mention sponsoree when closing bugs in sponsored syncs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904288
<tumbleweed> bdrung: there was debian bug 652000, but that's about sticking it in /usr/local on squeeze...
<ubottu> Debian bug 652000 in ubuntu-dev-tools "/usr/bin/pbuilder-dist: pbuilder-dist ignores environment and has no way to set a custom pbuilderrc" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/652000
<tumbleweed> I should drop the severity of that...
<tumbleweed> broder: any thoughts on debian bug 651546?
<ubottu> Debian bug 651546 in ubuntu-dev-tools "[backportpackage] no way to build for proper release socket without uploading directly" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/651546
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Invalid.  No such thing as a release socket.
<ScottK> ;-)
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'm sure one could be added to LP if you really want it
<ScottK> No, because then it'd be a real bug and we dont' want that.
<tumbleweed> heh
<ScottK> Actually I think the bug report makes sense.
<ScottK> I'd probably tag it help and say patches welcome though.
<ajmitch> add another option to disable adding -backports to the release name?
<tumbleweed> yeah, it's something that irritated me (I dput from debian where we can't use ppa:) but it's really trivial to edit the changes file
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: does it still have -backports in debian/changelog, or just in the .changes file?
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yes, it only modifies .changes
<EvilResistance> anyone know where i can find the precise dev team on irc?  someone asked a question in #kubuntu about a specific version of Qt, and would need the dev team to answer their question
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: "the precise dev team" ?
<EvilResistance> tumbleweed:  generally speaking the people producing the alpha/beta versions of precise...
<EvilResistance> if i may copy/paste a line or two into here...
<tumbleweed> EvilResistance: that's pretty much all ubuntu developers
<EvilResistance> are there any specific devs assigned to the kubuntu parts?
<tumbleweed> yes, the kubuntu developers
<EvilResistance> and they are... where :P
<tumbleweed> #kubuntu-devel
<EvilResistance> thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: can you have a look and http://paste.ubuntu.com/777873/ and tell me what i do wrong?
<bdrung> i found it
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed
<tumbleweed> bdrung: pushed
<tumbleweed> eep, wrong bug
<tumbleweed> I'm crazy tired, so please check that
<broder> tumbleweed: not sure if there's a better option than a --pocket flag or something
<tumbleweed> broder: I just committed http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/revision/1264
<broder> tumbleweed: sure, lgtm
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ok? https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkitkde/+bug/848916
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 848916 in webkitkde (Ubuntu) "Sync webkitkde 1.1.0git80efcf77-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<tumbleweed> (ignore the content of that bug)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: sponsored for me?
<tumbleweed> sure, :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: would it be better to have it at the top (= more prominent)?
<tumbleweed> yeah, it looks a bit silly there
<bdrung> tumbleweed: pushed, please check
<tumbleweed> seems ok
<tumbleweed> that's prettier: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pygame/+bug/898062
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 898062 in pygame (Ubuntu) "Please sync pygame 1.9.1release+dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<bdrung> tumbleweed: lgtm
<tumbleweed> committed it
<tumbleweed> feel free to upload it, I'm off to bed
<tumbleweed> we should send a mail to devel-announce about native sync sponsoring (and native syncing in general)...
<tumbleweed> Laney: I assume you saw bigjools' UI component to native sync sponsoring? It just added an input box on +localpackagediffs, no indication of sponsorship anywhere yet...
<broder> ScottK: is there a reason you didn't just sync python-pypcap yourself?
 * micahg was kinda wondering the same thing
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-22
<Laney> tumbleweed: yeah, been busy so not had much time to follow up on stuff
<Laney> I guess it was supposed to be the UI to /do/ syncs, not to show them though
<Laney> that's part of the other UI bug I suppose (about there being some indicatio nat all)
<ScottK> broder: syncpackage crashed when I tried.
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach :)
<geser> good morning dholbach, good afternoon ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> about 10pm now, but close enough
<ajmitch> how are you geser?
<micahg> geser: if you want another timezone :)
<geser> I'm fine. How about you?
<ajmitch> good, happy now that I've finished work for the year
<dholbach> hey geser, hey ajmitch, hi micahg
<micahg> hi dholbach
<nigelb> hello!
 * Laney joins the greetingsfest
<TiMiDo> hey Laney
<TiMiDo> can someone tell me if my wiki is ok please https://wiki.ubuntu.com/aaronfarias
<Laney> 'ok' in what respect?
<TiMiDo> for membership ;)
<TiMiDo> I'm applying
<nigelb> hey Laney!
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-23
<Laney> broder: bet you're happy about UDS :-)
<broder> i was initially disappointed about not getting to travel, but i'm over it now and pretty stoked
<Laney> tour guide hat at the ready
<broder> yep
<ScottK> Be careful where you tour in Oakland.  You may not come back.
<nigelb> Heh
<broder> psh. it's cool - the hotel is right by the bart station, so the temptation to go into oakland is minimal
<ScottK> That would be true BART station or not.
<ScottK> broder: If you're still around, would you please sync unbound from unstable for me?
<micahg> ScottK: I can sync unbound for you if you like
<ScottK> micahg: Yes. Please.  syncpackage isn't working for me.
<ScottK> I'm about to have a mess of security debdiffs too.
<micahg> ScottK: well, I'll add this sync to that bug you opened so it has everything
<ScottK> micahg: Great.  It's CVE-2011-4528
<ubottu> Unbound before 1.4.13p2 attempts to free unallocated memory during processing of duplicate CNAME records in a signed zone, which allows remote DNS servers to cause a denial of service (daemon crash) via a crafted response. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2011-4528)
<ScottK> Urg.
<ScottK> Bug 907983
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 907983 in unbound (Ubuntu Precise) "Multiple security issues with unbound [DSA 2370-1]" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907983
<micahg> ScottK: done
<ScottK> Thanks.
<micahg> sorry, I haven't updated ubuntu-dev-tools to the version where it says in the bug who it's sponsored for
<micahg> but you're in the precise-changes mail
 * micahg knows you don't care about the paperwork :)
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> But if you want to make it up to me you can upload the fix for lucid-security.
<ScottK> (debdiff in the bug)
<micahg> last time I tried that, I killed several hours and still didn't get it done, I"ll try to get someone to look at it in the morning though
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> micahg: If you have time, I'd appreciate it if you could look at oneiric for unbound.  There's a configure error where it can't find the python headers and I've no idea why (I think I'm just too tired)
<micahg> ScottK: ok, will see if I have time
<ScottK> Thanks.
<micahg> ScottK: looks like a missing build-dep, works fine on a live system
<ScottK> Weird.
<ScottK> It build-depends on python-all-dev which was the first obvious choice.
<ScottK> So that's not it.
<ScottK> libpython2.6/2.7 are also pulled in.
 * micahg is getting the chroot build log
<ScottK> Missing -lssl
<micahg> ah
<ScottK> What about that?
 * micahg is getting the chroot to not purge to check
<ScottK> Dunno why that would work on a live system though.
<micahg> BTW, the release version won't build either
<micahg> I guess that's obvious considering the patch
<micahg> wow, a whole bunch of stuff is broke
 * micahg has no idea why this would work on a live system
<ScottK> It built at one point.
<micahg> in July when we had the autosync
<micahg> not sure, it seems to think my installed python env is fine, but the chroot env is not
<micahg> ah, it doesn't seem to be multiarch ready, but still that shouldn't work on the live system either unless I have some old hack installed
<micahg> it also won't build twice in a row which is annoying, but that's for another discussion (happening on debian-devel)
<ScottK> The next version (the one you just sync'ed over_ is multi-arched.
<micahg> right
 * ScottK is going to go to bed.
<ScottK> Good night.
<micahg> good night
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ondras> hi there
<ondras> what can I do to get my packages to ubuntu? I already have a working PPA...
<tumbleweed> ondras: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<ondras> tumbleweed: ah, thanks!
<ondras> tumbleweed: the bug should be filed even if the software is already packaged?
<ondras> tumbleweed: with [needs packaging] prefix?
<tumbleweed> ondras: did you miss the bit about going through debian?
<tumbleweed> that really is the beast approach
<ondras> yeah, I already sent them a RFS email
<ondras> but according to #debian-mentors, this can take months or years
<ondras> :/
<tumbleweed> it's normally a lot faster than that
<tumbleweed> what are you packaging?
<ondras> tumbleweed: http://code.google.com/p/v8cgi/
<ondras> (basically a wrapper around libv8 + several modules; somewhat similar to node.js but with different architecture/usage)
<jporsini> tumbleweed, hum, I don't know what is the normal duration, but at least the package that I have submitted has taken ~2month to pass the debian ftpmaster step (and I was lucky to personnally know the debian sponsor which speedup a little bit the process)
<tumbleweed> ondras: ah, that sounds like a non-trivial package
<tumbleweed> jporsini: ftpmaster review is a lot faster than it used to be: http://ftp-master.debian.org/stat.html
<jporsini> tumbleweed, yep, I was currently on this page, and you are right, it appears to be now very fast, definitively a good news, so forget my previous sentence:)
<DktrKranz> just FTR, average time in Debian NEW during 2011 has been 3 days and 5 hours
<ondras> tumbleweed: it is a multiple binary package, yes
<ondras> tumbleweed: but it is a standalone software with basically no dependencies
<tumbleweed> DktrKranz: and we appreciate it!
 * Laney bakes DktrKranz a cake http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/37895746_90c5c30ca9.jpg *
<Laney> * disclaimer: I may not have baked that
<jpds> Looks like cheese cake.
<Laney> it does, and has put me right in the mood for some
 * Laney eyes the build queues
 * Laney goes to decorate the tree instead
<geser> Laney: does this imply that you would have a undecorated tree if the build queues were empty?
 * geser wonders if it's possible to deduce how full the build queues were from how much Laney decorated his tree?
<Laney> geser: that is something we cannot know
<mdeslaur> ScottK: I'm uploading your unbound fixes now, just as soon as I fix the oneiric ftbfs. I've added two more older cve fixes to the lucid package also.
<ScottK> mdeslaur: OK.  I wasn't aware I'd missed any.  Thanks.
<ScottK> mdeslaur: Please let me know what the solution is on oneiric once you sort it out.  It's got me confused.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: I'm still poking at it...I suspect this is the fix: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=users/edmonds/unbound.git;a=commitdiff;h=650df562a19e196e9acbc4898559f2fa61a8d90e
<mdeslaur> hrm, maybe not
<ScottK> micahg said he got it to build on a non-minimal system, so it may just be a missing dependency.
 * ScottK has NFC what though.
<mdeslaur> huh
<ScottK> [01:03:13] <micahg> ScottK: looks like a missing build-dep, works fine on a live system
<ScottK> [01:03:32] <ScottK> Weird.
<ScottK> Based on the failure though, I'm not sure how that's possible.
<geser> is there a build log available somewhere?
<ScottK> No, but just try to rebuild the oneiric unbound package.
<ScottK> It dies pretty quickly in configure.
<ScottK> Actually, i may have one
<ScottK> I do.
<ScottK> geser: http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/unbound.oneiric
<mdeslaur> I think it's multiarch related, and I'm backporting a small change from the precise package
<mdeslaur> hrm, that didn't work
 * mdeslaur scratches head
<geser> does the oneiric version build in a precise chroot? and does the precise version build in a oneiric chroot? (I don't have access to my pbuilders right now to test it myself)
<ScottK> The precise version does not build on the oneiric chroot.
<ScottK> The oneiric version builds on precise.
<ScottK> mdeslaur: That (to me) points to a bug in another package.
<geser> Could it be python itself? As this check tries linking with only python, on the other side (if it's really python) I wonder why no other package stumbled over it
<ScottK> That's what I was thinking, but no idea.  It seems distinctly odd.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: yeah, I tried the precise package on oneiric, and it failed as well
<ScottK> But the other way around works (oneiric package on precise)
<mdeslaur> yep, so it's something with oneiric
<mdeslaur> I'm still poking at it
<ScottK> Better you than me.  This is way over my head.
<mdeslaur> well, I'm stuck...don't know what to try next
<ScottK> Ask doko since it might be Python related?
<ScottK> Reading -devel, I don't fell bad I didn't figure that out.
<ScottK> fell/feel
<mdeslaur> ScottK, geser: we need to build it with binutils from oneiric-updates
<mdeslaur> ScottK: heh, I wouldn't have figured it out :P
<ScottK> Great news though.
<ScottK> It also explains why it built on micahg's system.  I'm sure he has -updates enabled.
<mdeslaur> ScottK: yeah...thanks for suggesting I ask him
<ScottK> It's ironic though since I suggested him for a reason entirely unrelated to the actual answer.
<mdeslaur> I had tried rebuilding with -updates enabled in my schroot, but binutils wasn't updated in it
<ScottK> tumbleweed: You're famous - http://askubuntu.com/badges/40/tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> :)
<tumbleweed> now I need to ask a question so I can earn it
<tumbleweed> broder: maybe backportpackage should use -nc
<tumbleweed> (just ran across one of those package that needs all its build deps to clean)
<micahg> makes sense if there are no source changes
 * micahg had one of those last night also
 * tumbleweed does that for syncpackage too
<tumbleweed> oh and sponsor-patch
<broder> tumbleweed: makes sense to me
<ajmitch> ScottK: you're using askubuntu now as well?
<Laney> i answered some questions there a bit back
 * micahg thinks ScottK mistook it for as kubuntu :)
<ajmitch> heh
<Laney> as kubuntu
<Laney> want points? answer http://askubuntu.com/questions/90070/how-does-the-shutdown-button-works-without-asking-for-password
<broder> that one's easy
<Laney> exactly
 * tumbleweed doesn't know why anyone bothers with askubuntu. jorge answers everything
<ajmitch> not *quite* everything
<ajmitch> just 95%
 * ajmitch did at least get a free tshirt from them :)
<Adri2000> hmm, I'm a bit out of date on this: is requestsync completly deprecated in favor of syncpackage?
<Adri2000> (given that I have the necessary upload rights)
<broder> yes
<broder> for doing your own syncs
<broder> for sponsoring syncs, you need to be sure to have a fairly recent version of syncpackage that supports it
<broder> (either from precise or ppa:udt-developers/daily)
<Adri2000> ok, thanks :)
<EvilResistance> broder:  is there an easy way to determine what build-deps or required packages are defined in the debian/control file in a source package between versions (i.e. precise vs. oneiric versions)
<EvilResistance> without me having to download the source packages and then diffing them
<EvilResistance> s/them/the control file/
<Laney> packages.ubuntu.com shows it, or UDD
<EvilResistance> packages.ubuntu.com does show the dependent packages for the program to run, but i dont see any refs about the build-deps... what's UDD?
<Laney> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/precise/libproxy
<Laney> UDD is the ultimate debian database, see udd.debian.org
<EvilResistance> ah source that's what i forgot to look at :P
<Laney> or they are in the Sources file in a repository
<Laney> which you can query with e.g. grep-dctrl
<nixmaniack> is there a way to get debian source via apt-get source in ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> it's in the Sources files
<tumbleweed> ah, Laney said that
<tumbleweed> nixmaniack: we have pull-debian-source to make it easy
<tumbleweed> but yes, you can have deb-src lines pointing at Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> err at Debian
<nixmaniack> tumbleweed, thanks for the help :)
<tumbleweed> apt-get doesn't make that particularly user-friendly, though, you have to specify which release you are downloading from, whenever you download it
<tumbleweed> also see chdist in devscripts
<tumbleweed> but for most uses, pull-debian-source
<nixmaniack> which default mirror it uses?
<tumbleweed> the primary archive. But you can configure it (see ubuntu-dev-tools (5))
<nixmaniack> tumbleweed, okay, got it.
<EvilResistance> um... i'm getting a 500 error when trying to upload a backported package to a PPA for my use... is this a bug, or did it not upload?  https://pastebin.com/aPwzfQhU
<EvilResistance> (using backportpackage btw)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-24
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: for some reason I can't clone your pypy git repository, it complains about HEAD referring to a nonexistent ref
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: grumble
<ajmitch> could be because I'm cloning with git+ssh, I just wanted to try it out & maybe help a bit with it :)
<tumbleweed> no, it's a problem with the repo
<ajmitch> http://paste.ubuntu.com/780466/
<ajmitch> anyway, I'd like to help get it into shape when I can
<tumbleweed> ah, no, there isn't a master branch, just debian
<tumbleweed> it's fine
 * tumbleweed hasn't found a git packaging workflow he likes yet
<tumbleweed> this is a pretty boring layout
<ajmitch> ok
 * ajmitch will probably look at it after christmas
<EvilResistance> so... nobody can diagnose whether or not my issue is a bug or an actual issue?
<EvilResistance> hm must have been a random glitch.. reuploading it fixed the issue.
<EvilResistance> nevermind
<nixmaniack> i just created pbuilder base.tgz and now I want to create the cowbuilder base.cow, but i don't want to download the all packages again. Is it possible to tell cowbuilder to use already downloaded packages by pbuilder??
<nixmaniack> how do I tell git-buildpackage to use cowbuilder instead of pbuilder?
<Resistance> hmm
<Resistance> if i wanted to backport debhelper as a build-dep for a package within a PPA, would it break anything if the target system, for build purposes, was using Lucid?
<Resistance> is there a backported version of debhelper 8 that could be used to fix the builddeps for a package i'm trying to backport within a PPA?
<Resistance> (looking for a Lucid backport)
<Resistance> better question then...
<Resistance> if i were to within a PPA backport debhelper (>=8.0.0) to Lucid, would I potentially run into any issues?
<tumbleweed> best way to find out is to try . In my experience, debhelper is usually pretty easily backportable
<Laney> ho ho ho
<nigelb> Merry Christmas Laney :)
<Laney> :-)
 * Laney has now finished wrapping
 * iulian too.
<Resistance> anyone having issues with launchpad and stuff today?>
<Resistance> i'm getting evil horrible lag
<Ampelbein> All good here
<iulian> Same here.
<Resistance> hmm
<Resistance> ah there's the issue...
<Resistance> backportpackage is being evil and is having some issues downloading files to temp in prep. for backporting...
<Resistance> so now i made a tempdir :P
<Resistance> and told the thing to use that dir
<Resistance> seems to have fixed the files-download problemn
<Resistance> now if only the site itself wouldnt lag >.>
<Resistance> seems time to reboot my router
<Resistance> the monthly reboot time! :P
<Resistance> so regarding debhelper... is there any chance that the version from oneiric can be officially backported to older versions of Ubuntu?  or no?
<Resistance> does anybody know whether there's a backport of dpkg 1.16 or greater available for lucid?  its a build-dep for a package i'm trying to backport (lucid's version is 1.15.smth)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-25
<ScottK> ajmitch: No, just saw a reference to it.
<ScottK> micahg: AIUI askubuntu covers Kubuntu too.
<ScottK> (not that I use it either way)
<Resistance> ScottK:  AskUbuntu does cover Kubuntu
<Resistance> it also covers the other official derivatives
<Resistance> Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc.
<micahg> ScottK: re askubuntu> indeed it does, I was making a joke :)
<ScottK> OK.
<Resistance> hmm...
<Resistance> anyone know how much of a hassle it'd be to backport dpkg from a newer distribution to lucid in order to fulfill a build-dep for a package i want to backport?
<micahg> Resistance: you probably just want to fix the package to not require the newer debhelper
<Resistance> micahg:  debhelper was an easy backport, and it succeeded... dpkg-dev on the otherhand isnt backported into lucid at all
<Resistance> hence the question
<Resistance> (i'd have to modify the package versioning for dpkg/dpkg-dev in the control, and i could easily do that)
<micahg> Resistance: sorry, I'd suggest fixing to not use a newer dpkg
<Resistance> oh i agree :P
<Resistance> i'm just horridly freaking tired ;P
<Resistance> if i werent, i'd do it
<Resistance> hmm
<Resistance> micahg:  i dont see dpkg-dev existing there... i'm not even sure wth i'm looking for in this case (source package: rkhunter, control file does not explicitly state dpkg/dpkg-dev in the deps...
<Resistance> :/
<Resistance> *shrugs*
<Resistance> maybe i'm just horridly tired... :P
<Resistance> s/rkhunter/rkhunter (lucid)/
<Resistance> grah
<Resistance> oneiric
<Resistance> i'm headed off, too tired to backport things >.>
<micahg> dpkg-dev is in lucid...
<Resistance> micahg:  the version in lucid is insufficient
<Resistance> i cant find the control entry to allow me to specify the version
<micahg> Resistance: huh? rkhunter doesn't need dpkg-dev
<micahg> laney: are the haskell packages supposed to be spitting out weird versioned dependencies?
<iulian> Weird versioned dependencies?
<micahg> iulian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/781974/
<micahg> nothing can build against these weird versions now
<iulian> micahg: Why not? What's wrong with the versions?
<micahg> aside from that they don't exist in the archive?
<micahg> oh, I see...this is why these things need constant rebuilds :-/
<micahg> it almost seems an abuse of provides to version libraries
<micahg> but I guess this stuff moves too fast otherwise
<iulian> micahg: Those are the first 5 digits of the hash if that's what you meant by 'weird versions'.
<micahg> iulian: yes, I missed that they were "provided" by the dev packages
<micahg> and if one's missing, it means a rebuild is needed usually
<iulian> If it has a different hash, yes. All the packages that depend on it need to be rebuilt.
<Laney> micahg: http://upsilon.cc/~zack/research/publications/studia11-dh-ocaml.pdf
<Laney> it is an implementation of that
<Laney> http://upsilon.cc/~zack/blog/posts/2009/11/Enforcing_type-safe_linking_using_package_dependencies/
<micahg> Laney: thanks, that's quite informative (although it seems nightmarish to keep up to date)
<Laney> it's pretty scriptable
<micahg> I guess so, I just figured out that part myself
 * micahg goes to sleep and tries not to have nightmares about this :)
<iulian> It's not that bad after all.
<ScottK> iulian: Congratulations on DM.
<Resistance> micahg:  well debhelper does... https://launchpadlibrarian.net/88357122/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.rkhunter_1.3.8-7~lucid1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Resistance> micahg:  debhelper needs dpkg-dev >= 1.16.0~ubuntu4 (which i think is in natty?(
<MerryResistance> also, to all the MOTUs and Ubuntu-dom... Happy Holidays to You All!
<iulian> ScottK: Thanks but that was roughly 2 years ago.
<ScottK> iulian: Oh.  I saw a mail about your key being added to the keyring.
<ScottK> I guess it was just an update?
 * ScottK lises track of who is what.
<ScottK> lise/loses
<iulian> ScottK: I have no idea to be honest. What mail?
<ScottK> I didn't save it, but it want to the NM list.  It was a standard mail listing DM keyring changes.
<ScottK> Maybe it was inadvertently resent from long ago.
<iulian> ScottK: Probably.
<tumbleweed> yay, more ruby grumbling: http://intertwingly.net/blog/2011/12/24/Ubuntu-vs-Ruby
<ScottK> I think switching to 1.9 by default is a good goal, just needs someone to do it.
<tumbleweed> probably, although I don't know ruby
<ScottK> I don't know it much either, but I understand 1.9 is a substantial performance improvement over 1.8.
<tumbleweed> lucas: planning on transitioning in debian?
<micahg> Resistance: don't backport debhelper, it's more trouble than it's worth :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-17
<TheLordOfTime> anyone here able to help me resolve an issue with quilt patches?
<TheLordOfTime> i'm trying to write a quilt patch using quilt new [patchname], quilt add [relevantfile], edit the file, do quilt refresh...
<TheLordOfTime> after that point, should quilt pop remove the codechanges?
<TheLordOfTime> or rather undo the changes i did when i edited the file?
<TheLordOfTime> because in the current case, the patches all get their diff stuff, which then doesn't apply.
<TheLordOfTime> complains about the headers :/
<RAOF> TheLordOfTime: quilt refresh will *not* pop the changes. It'll just update the diff.
<TheLordOfTime> you missed a line
<RAOF> If you want to pop the changes off, you'll need to âquilt popâ
<TheLordOfTime> <TheLordOfTime> after that point, should quilt pop remove the codechanges?
<RAOF> Ahem.
<RAOF> So I did.
<TheLordOfTime> after i said what i've doen :p
<RAOF> Move along :)
<TheLordOfTime> RAOF, but then when i go quilt push -a to check if it works with all the other patches, it errors
<TheLordOfTime> lemme see if i cant dredge up the logs
<RAOF> Yeah, that'd be helpful.
<TheLordOfTime> ... okay, the patches disappeared, i wonder if my system segv'd...
<TheLordOfTime> give me a moment.
<TheLordOfTime> ... huh
<TheLordOfTime> that's... interesting.
<TheLordOfTime> apparently its not erroring now
 * TheLordOfTime wonders if the dget on the package was broken.
<RAOF> Hurrah for the passive fix :)
<TheLordOfTime> well, lets hope adding the next CVE patch and the one after don't cause this breakage
<TheLordOfTime> not to mention lets hope quilt correctly adds the dep3 tags
<TheLordOfTime> since it failed to do that last time when i told it to
<TheLordOfTime> but first...
<TheLordOfTime> COFFEE
<TheLordOfTime> is there an easy way to add DEP3 tags to a quilt patch?
<TheLordOfTime> rather than me hand-adding them.
<RAOF> TheLordOfTime: I don't know; I generally get the DEP3 tags from the VCS I did the patch in.
<Guest95055> micahg: you awake still?
<Guest95055> argh
<micahg> can I deny it?
<Guest95055> sorry this is mfisch
<Guest95055> micahg: so a question on a new rev of transmission
<Guest95055> micahg: I pulled it down and built it and it requires no changes at all
<Guest95055> micahg: I mean just uscan/uupdate and build, well a small changelog edit
<Guest95055> micahg: but it generates a 3.7MB debdiff
<Guest95055> is that still what I should attach to the bug?
<micahg> well, we're "in-sync" with Debian, maybe get it updated there first?
<micahg> (it's a merge)
<Guest95055> we have a couple changes from debian
<micahg> right, but Debian has 2.73 as well
<Guest95055> getting it updated there would certainly avoid us having a 96644 line debdiff to read
<Guest95055> micahg: thanks
<micahg> Guest95055: you diff the debian dir instead of the whole thing
<micahg> but either way, I think it's best at this point if the Debian maintainer is open (which he appears to be) is to get it there first
<Guest95055> micahg: with a debdiff?
<micahg> yeah
<Guest95055> interesting
<Guest95055> our bzr is way outdated because I tried that route as well
<Guest95055> micahg: okay thanks for the advice
 * Guest95055 keeps smacking the nickserver without much luck
<Unit193> Guest95055: /msg nickserv release nick pass
<mfisch> thanks, I was tyring to ghost it instead
<Unit193> Sure.
<dholbach> good morning
 * Laney arghs at mysteriously losing a tab with a fairly lengthy bug comment in it
<Laney> there must be an extension to get form content back
<micahg> Laney: undo close tab?
<Laney> no
<Laney> just got some random tabs
<Laney> i thought perhaps i accidently navigated away, but going back just took me elsewhere :(
 * Laney retypes
<micahg> Rhonda: well, no change backports are a little easier than changeful ones
<xnox> Laney: in chromium it prevents me from navigating away/closing if there is "typed" content that I may destroy by going away.
<Laney> mmm, I don't think FF does that
<Laney> some websites do though
<micahg> Feed the Google with more content...
<xnox> my approach to privacy is to generate as much FUD content about me as possible, then it makes it harder to find the gems of personal information that did leak through.
<xnox> if one is over-cautious, the only bit of private information that will eventually leak will also end up on top the front page search result for your name.
<micahg> xnox: so, that story about you braving the rapids by Tiera Del Fuego is a cover?
 * xnox no comment
<xnox> micahg: so what is the process for $universe package USN?
<micahg> xnox: none
<xnox> micahg: do I make patches for affected releases & subscribe security-sponsors?
<xnox> micahg: does it even go into -security pocket? or simply -updates?
<micahg> xnox: yep (ubuntu-security-sponsors)
<xnox> ack.
<oVeRMiND> hello world!
<jtaylor> micahg: why does backportpackage print build depende twice? :( e.g. 1091411
<jtaylor> and ping ipython :)
<jtaylor> nevermind seems fixed in trunk
<Laney> oh backports
<Laney> I hope to find more time for you
<micahg> jtaylor: can it wait until next week when I'm on vacation?
<jtaylor> sure
<micahg> no idea why it does that (ISTR a bug being filed and maybe even fixed0
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-18
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<Laney> anyone know if ubuntu-restricted-addons is managed using a seed-like file or if it's just directly edited in the source package?
<Laney> micahg: â â you've changed it in the past
<smartboyhw> slangasek, ping
<smartboyhw> sorry wrong ping:P
<smartboyhw> stgraber, ping
<Laney> jtaylor: what's "#use update-alternatives"?
<dholbach> Does anyone know what's up with the sponsorship miner? It looks like it can't connect to ullmann.d.o.
<Laney> it's down
<Laney> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/udd.debian.org
<Laney> along with the PTS and people.debian.org and qa.debian.org and probably other stuff
<dholbach> Ok, let's hope whoever's on it is going to make all those machines happy soon again. :-)
<Laney> I guess if you looked into it you'd find that all of those services are hosted at the same place
<dholbach> No, I didn't. I was just wondering if anyone knew anything.
<Laney> not suggesting that you should do that, just putting forward my theory :P
<Laney> 18/12 13:00:17 -!- Irssi: Topic: +: DOWN: Hosting UBCECE
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> dholbach: back now
<dholbach> Laney, sweet, thanks
<smartboyhw> hi guys got a question
<smartboyhw> When I try to build packages (namely actually the pulseaudio 3.0) I bumped into something extremely weird
<smartboyhw> To continue my question (sorry went to brush my teeth)
<smartboyhw> I got this error
<smartboyhw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1447731/
<smartboyhw> However I surely HAVE that file
<micahg> Laney: AIUI, you just edit the files, but maybe I did it wrong?
<micahg> smartboyhw: that's not weird, you're trying to install a file that doesn't exist in the build dir
<Laney> dunno
<micahg> sorry, in the tmp dir
<Laney> it just looks like a -meta package but not
<Laney> will do that, thanks
<micahg> yeah, idr
<smartboyhw> micahg, hmm how do I do that?
<micahg> smartboyhw: edit the install file in the debian dir for the new path?
<jtaylor> Laney: 13:43 <Laney> jtaylor: what's "#use update-alternatives"?, that should be "uses"
<jtaylor> thus it needs root right
<Laney> i see
<Laney> i just didn't get what the comment was supposed to be about
<jtaylor> I can update it
<Laney> will look at it again tomorrow
<Laney> feel free
<jtaylor> is the sru queue going to processed before the vacation time?
<jtaylor> I got something in there for a couple weeks again
<jtaylor> which blocks another update
<SpamapS> jtaylor: its never fully processed these days
<SpamapS> jtaylor: which package? I'll be doing some SRU processing tomorrow
<jtaylor> SpamapS: jcc
<jtaylor> needed for pylucene fix
<Laney> SpamapS: do you want more people on the SRU team?
<Laney> have you heard of Micah Gersten? :-)
<SpamapS> Laney: it would probably make sense. Especially since I only do it in spare time, not as part of primary job function anymore.
<Laney> yeah ...
<Laney> I think perhaps some people could be approached and asked if they would like to join
<Laney> rather than calling for volunteers
<SpamapS> that is typically how it has worked
<SpamapS> its not one of those "anyone can do it" positions
<Laney> Right, I'm just suggesting that it might be something which could happen now-ish ;-)
 * Laney is going to EOD and consider how strong his resistance to offering to join the team is (and whether he has the skill) :P
<Laney> mm
<Laney> nn*
 * micahg hides
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-19
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> achiang: this was a little off topic for #launchpad, so I moved here, anyways, you can get sponsored uploads here: http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi
<achiang> micahg: whizbang. thanks
<achiang> and... bed time. :)
<micahg> for me as well
<alo21> hi all... I am merging gnome-photo-printer, and as in the changelog, the bug #662978 has been closed. But when I downloaded the package, I can still see that bug
<ubottu> bug 662978 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Feature Request: Make "Place Windows" plugin functionality available through the window title context menu" [Low,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662978
<alo21> sorry the bug is: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=662978
<ubottu> Debian bug 662978 in gnome-photo-printer "gnome-photo-printer: Small issues with gnome-photo-printer.desktop" [Minor,Open]
<alo21> can I fix the bug while the merging?
<TheLordOfTime> alo21, actually, the bug's expired.
<TheLordOfTime> oh, the debian bug is open.
 * TheLordOfTime leaves this be and waits for MOTUs
<TheLordOfTime> speaking of MOTUs, got an unrelated question for them, but it can wait :P
<alo21> hmm.. ok. thanks for your support
<Adri2000> alo21: yes you can. then send your fixes to the debian maintainer / bug report
<Adri2000> from what I can see, the only .desktop thing not fixed in -1.2 is that the Icon line should not contain the file extension
<alo21> Adri2000, yes... so I can merge the package with my edited .desktop file, and then send the patch in debian.
<alo21> Adri2000, why the bug is in the changelog?
<Adri2000> the changelog says "adresses: 662978" which probably explains why the bug wasn't automatically closed. maybe the uploader did that because he didn't fix the bug completely. so the real question is why he didn't fix it completely :)
<alo21> Adri2000, have I put in the changelog that I 'really fixed the bug'?
<alo21> Close: #662978
<TheLordOfTime> I've seen it written as "Closes: #number"
<TheLordOfTime> not sure how strict their BTS is on looking for "Closes:"
<Adri2000> I'm not sure it works without the 's' indeed. anyway that is only for debian so it won't have any impact for an ubuntu upload
<TheLordOfTime> mhm.
<Adri2000> the syntax for closing a bug in ubuntu is "LP: #nnnnnn"
<TheLordOfTime> indeed.
<alo21> Adri2000, a part 's', which I will include. Have I to say the fix explicitly ?
<Adri2000> alo21: for your ubuntu upload you can write "fixed this and this in the desktop file" and you may indeed mention the debian bug report (using the Closes: syntax or not won't change anything here).
<Adri2000> then when you forward your fixes to debian, if you provide a complete debdiff for a debian upload (instead of just the patch corresping to your fixes), you will have to use the correct syntax to close the bug
<Adri2000> corresponding*
<alo21> ok
<psusi> someone tell me I'm not losing my mind... dpkg --compare-versions '2 > 1' complains that --compare-versiosn needs 3 arguments... umm... I'm giving it 3...
<psusi> ohh... nevermind.. damnit... it's *also* interpreting the quotes...
<micahg> psusi: that's one argument
<psusi> yea, had to escape rather than quote to get through the shell
<psusi> did I see somewhere that this last dev cycle incoming packages started automatically being sent to -proposed?
<psusi> does that mean they are built against other packages in -proposed? or are they still built against what's in the release pocket?
<jtaylor> if I backport a new soversion library and then a rdep of it
<jtaylor> will the rdep backport build against the library backport ?
<jtaylor> psusi: they are built against proposed
<psusi> won't that lead to breakage if the app is moved to the release pocket but not the lib it was built against?
<jtaylor> if so then there should be versioned depends
<psusi> well yea,  but that's what I'm talking about... it will depend on the newer version of the lib and thus, won't be installable
<Laney> jtaylor: you'll get the release versions of stuff
<jtaylor> then it won't migrate
<Laney> unless you version the BD in which case you'll get uninstallable BDs
<Laney> you can't win :>
<jtaylor> so don't do it?
<psusi> ohh, the command to migrate checks the deps and bails if they aren't already moved?
<jtaylor> psusi: it checks installability
<jtaylor> just like in debian
<psusi> got ya
<jtaylor> but without rc bugs as blockers
<jtaylor> at least currently
<Laney> (hassle â to get that fixed)
<micahg> wait, why wouldn't versioned BDs work?
<jtaylor> the backports can't depend on backports bug?
<Laney> same reason they always dont
<micahg> that's only alternate BDs
<Laney> nope
<micahg> hrmm....are you referring just to backports, or in general?
<jtaylor> just backports
<Laney> just the usual backports bug
<micahg> right, because sbuild skips the versions...
<micahg> or rather LPs implementation
<Laney> I wonder at which level you'd fix this
<Laney> inject a preferences file to ignore NotAutomatic when the chroot is created?
<ajmitch> is a separate chroot used for the backports pocket?
<Laney> I dunno how it works
<Laney> but if not it still shouldn't be harmful to have a preferences file for backports all the time, should it?
<ajmitch> no, I think that was suggested in the bug
<ajmitch> slightly easier than un-forking sbuild
<Laney> that's a larger project, yeah
<Laney> so find out where the script to make chroots is... it's not in lp-buildd
<ajmitch> maybe scripts/ftpmaster-tools/manage-chroot.py in lp
<ajmitch> which is a wrapper around soyuz chrootmanager
<Laney> don't have lp checked out here
<Laney> can you see if that's where it mangles sources.list when building for different pockets?
<ajmitch> I can try, it may drive me mad in the process
<Laney> should call 'override-sources-list'
<Laney> bah, I'll start a branch of lp:launchpad :P
 * ajmitch greps the whole lp tree for that
<Laney> need to cook dinner anyway
<ajmitch> no mention of override-sources-list in lp:launchpad
<Laney> must be called another way
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> I see
<ajmitch> found something useful?
<Laney> that script is called from within launchpad-buildd
<micahg> laney: infinity was going to do something like that (inject a preference to ignore notautomatic for backports)
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I am trying to figure out enough of launchpad-buildd to see where you'd do it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-20
<mfisch> where do I find the build logs for a given package?  I'm trying to figure out why libseccomp wasn't built for armhf
<mfisch> it's not on the ftbfs page
<mfisch> ah, looks like for precise it only made it in as amd64 and i386
<mfisch> actually this may not exist for armhf at all
<micahg> mfisch: check the debian/control file
<micahg> mfisch: architectures are listed on teh build page as well: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libseccomp/1.0.1-1
<gotwig> hey, can you tell me where I can find the relevant po strings , where "unity" is part of for the package jockey-gtk? I dont find it when I do apt-get source jockey-gtk from ubuntu 12.04. But I find it here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/jockey/+pots/jockey/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=unity
<gotwig> I want to fix bug #1032534
<ubottu> bug 1032534 in elementary OS "Jockey refers to Unity" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032534
<gotwig> morning, guys..
<gotwig> hey, can you tell me where I can find the relevant po strings , where "unity" is part of for the package jockey-gtk? I dont find it when I do apt-get source jockey-gtk from ubuntu 12.04. But I find it here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/jockey/+pots/jockey/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=unity I want to fix bug #1032534
<ubottu> bug 1032534 in elementary OS "Jockey refers to Unity" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032534
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Hmm, why does libpulse0 have an epoche in ubuntu but not in Debian?   :/
<Rhonda> Hmm, is Luke Yelavich around? :)
<tumbleweed> some mistakes stick with us forever...
<Rhonda> Yes, but maybe the Debian people could be convinced to add it too.
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: he's TheMuso on IRC, don't see him around
<persia> He seems away now (usually is TheMuso)
<Rhonda> It's causing third-party packages to pick it up and thus make them non-usable for Debian  (read: steam)
<Rhonda> I wonder if he tried to contact the pulseaudio maintainers of Debian for that.
<Rhonda> And â¦ I wonder if the people caring for libjpeg-turbo are willing to get that package into Debian, too.  :)
<Rhonda> I wonder if I edit the meta data of the steam package to drop the epoch - is the epoch also somewhere within the library too, or should that actually work?
<persia> I'd be careful about asserting that folk care long-term about specific packages in Ubuntu: while there are exceptions, a lot of the not-in-Debian stuff tends to bitrot if not gardened.
<tumbleweed> libjpeg-turbo is fairly important, though
<persia> Shouldn't that only affect packaging stuff (dpkg, shlibs, etc.)?
<Rhonda> persia: libjpeg-turbo is maintained by "ubuntu core developers" - so I would assume that there is some longtime interest in it, not?
<Rhonda> Or do I read too much into that role? ;)
<Zhenech> Rhonda, epochs should not be anywhere but debian metadata, so should work
<tumbleweed> the Maintainer field means almost nothing in Ubuntu
 * Rhonda cries on tumbleweed's shoulder :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: it has advantages, too :)
<tumbleweed> but on the whole, it means ubuntu-only packages get neglected
<persia> tumbleweed: Sure, but I don't see lots of consistency in uploaders for the past year :)
<Rhonda> even core team ones?
<persia> Rhonda: core team stuff gets neglected *even more* than other stuff.
<Rhonda> Can someone check the reverse depends of libjpeg-turbo8 please?  :)
<tumbleweed> yes. things get cared about if they get used a lot / need to be cared about
<Rhonda> persia: Don't burst my bubbles!
<persia> *but* stuff that's core to Ubuntu (all flavours) is almost never neglected.
<persia> We've had a number of cases where some team asserted control over a package and it became absolutely useless until it could be pried away from them again.
<persia> As a result, we're fairly leery of that class of assertion.
<persia> libjpeg-turbo8 rdepends are all also provided by the libjpeg-turbo source (I haven't checked recursively)
<Rhonda> But libjpeg-turbo is neither in Debian. :)
<persia> Rhonda: You could upload it ...
<Rhonda> I don't even know what that is.  :)
<Rhonda> And don't put another load onto my shoulder.  :/
<persia> dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/libj/libjpeg-turbo/libjpeg-turbo_1.2.1-0ubuntu2.dsc
<persia> Heh, yeah, that's the problem with maintainers: one has to be confident of being a maintainer to upload :)
<nigelb> Rhonda: Excuses like "I don't know what that is" tend to not work with persia.
<nigelb> ;)
<persia> Anyway, tgall_foo might be willing to be sponsored, if someone wanted to hunt him down (he doesn't hang out in this channel)
<Rhonda> nigelb: Does excuses like "I'll do it if you care for my games in Debian for the time being, in exchange" work with persia?
<persia> Rhonda: You know me better than that! :)
<nigelb> Also, no.
<nigelb> hahaha, persia answerd that better :P
<Rhonda> persia: But we need something for your DM application!
<Rhonda> You know you want to do it!
<nigelb> Wait, persia isn't a DD?
<nigelb> I'm surprised. For once.
<persia> DM  Why would I want to be a DM?
<persia> nigelb: There were some scheduling issues
<Rhonda> Like, it would involve doing stuff?  *nudgenudge*
<Rhonda> (sorry, that was low, my bad)
<persia> Becoming a DM would be more work at this point than becoming a DD, but yeah, I should hunt down that file that got lost.
<persia> nigelb: And as further background, Debian has this strange requirement that one use email as more than a write-only-medium, which requirement I failed to meet for about 5 years: don't think that my lack of being a DD has *any* relation at all to the nature of the NM process or it being difficult or anything.
<nigelb> persia: I was under no such impression.
<gotwig> where can I find the relevant po files (for the different languages) for jockey-gtk?
<gotwig> the strings for unity are missing: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/jockey/+pots/jockey/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=unity <<< these strings, when you do apt-get source jockey-gtk from Ubuntu 12.04
<gotwig> come on :D no packagers here?
<persia> gotwig: Rather, nobody has a good answer to your question (or they likely would have answered from the backscroll).  You might try a local build without binary-mangler, and see if that gets you strings, but it could as easily be an LP bug.
<gotwig> persia: maybe the po files get created at build?
<persia> Possibly.  I have no idea: I haven't tried the build.
<mfisch> micahg: thanks, I never even thought to check control because I was building something on armhf and didn't expect it to ask for something not packaged
<persia> mfisch: Rather, not instructed to be built: maybe it has a known failure, or maybe someone just forgot.  Try changing control locally, and running an armhf build.  If it works (both builds and can be used by client packages), it's worth a bug asking for armhf supoort (ideally with your debian/control patch and a test report)
<mfisch> I found out this morning that I was missing a patch to remove a required lib and so life is good now or will be as soon as i get coffee
<micahg> mfisch: there was also a bug in the changelog associated with the x86 only change
<mfisch> micahg: turns out that it shouldn't be in the makefile, the patched tree works great
<alo21> hi. I am trying to apply a patch with quilt, but it tells me that a patch can't be applied
<alo21> this is the patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1452731/
<alo21> this is the makefile: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1452738/
<alo21> As I noticed, the raw does not match. What should I do?
<micahg> alo21: looks like it's been applied already or applied upstream
<Zhenech> well, ther eis no test target in the makefile, so why are you trying to remove it?
<alo21> micahg, If I download a source from debian with pull-debian-source, are all the patches apply automatically?
<micahg> depends if it's source format 3.0 or not
<micahg> check quilt applied
<alo21> yes. the patch has been applied yet.... how can I build a package running 'merge-buildpackage', without get the error that a patch is just applied?
<alo21> micahg, did you read?
<micahg> huh?  if it's been applied you shouldn't get an error
<alo21> micahg, here is the error that I got: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1452784/
<micahg> yeah, you can't have fuzz with source format 3.0 packages
<micahg> run this on the troublesome patch: quilt refresh --diffstat --no-timestamps
<micahg> I forget the command to do it to all patches
<alo21> I got: Nothing in patch 01_deactivate-nosetests.patch
<alo21> I am merging a package from 0.2 (in ubuntu), to 0.3 (in debian), but a new version (0.4) comes out in upstream, but not in debian. Can I merge directly merge to the new upstream, or not?
<xnox> alo21: whichever =) but e.g. 0.4 can go into debian experimental.
<alo21> xnox, but isn't in debian experimental yet
<alo21> it isn't*
<xnox> alo21: sure, but it doesn't mean that you can't get it sponsored there =)
<alo21> xnox, fine
<xnox> alo21: as I said: merging 0.3 into ubuntu, publishing 0.4 into experimental, publishing 0.4 into ubuntu. Are all valid paths here and will be beneficial.
<xnox> alo21: depends on what you really want and/or have time to do.
<alo21> xnox, I think would be better if I push 0.4 in experimental, but I haven't upload right, and I can't package for debian
<xnox> alo21: then you what to do next ;-)
<alo21> xnox, have I to fill in a bug report to require sponsor?
<xnox> alo21: debdiff+bug or branch+merge-proposal
<alo21> xnox, as I said, I can't create the .deb package
<xnox> alo21: oh you can't package at all? then bug to request a version upgrade / merge.
<xnox> alo21: what package is it for?
<alo21> xnox,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gbirthday/+bug/1020783
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1020783 in gbirthday (Ubuntu) "Please merge gbirthday 0.6.6-2 (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,In progress]
<alo21> the last post, suggests to upgrade into version 0.6.7
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-21
<micahg> ScottK: so, if a reverse build dependency is broke, does that disqualify a backport?  all the other tests were fine (bug 1074765)
<ubottu> bug 1074765 in Quantal Backports "Please backport ipython 0.13.1-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074765
<micahg> I'm tempted to push it through
<ScottK> I guess I'd want to understand the "should be suggests" in there.
<ScottK> For the stuff that was already broken, no problem at all.
<ScottK> Fix the one that has an easy fix and then keep testing.
<ScottK> Given that there's some regression, I think the testing needs to be finished.
<micahg> he actually ended up finishing it save for one
<ScottK> It doesn't disqualify it, it just means fix the other package.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Is the issue yade then?
<ScottK> If it's got an easy fix, backport the easy fix and make sure the backported ipython has breaks on the older yade.
<micahg> hrm, what happened, I thought I just commented to him...
<micahg> jtaylor: re ipython backport, it seems that nipype wasn't tested (reverse build dependency)
<micahg> ScottK: so, would that fix be a changeful patch or a new backport?
<micahg> (yade)
<ScottK> Whichever makes more sense.  If a new backport does it, that's probably easier.
<micahg> jtaylor: also, there's -2 now, do you want that instead?
<ScottK> Once I when I was trying to get a clamav backport done on Dapper, I had one rdepend that was totally fubar.  I ended up making a franken package using the Dapper packaging, most of the package from Feisty (in order to avoid needing too new libs) and one file from (IIRC) Hardy that had the interface for clamav in it to work with the newest clamav.
<ScottK> Amazingly it all worked  fine.
<micahg> ok, I just wanted to make sure I stay within the rules of backports
 * micahg has a nice backlog to get through
<dholbach> good morning
<jtaylor> micahg: nobody is going to build yade, it needs like 6GB or ram ._.
<persia> jtaylor: Why is this a blocker?  Just call for a volunteer: there's lots of folk who have that somewhere, or someone could use a PPA)
<jtaylor> I don't understand why rbuild depends are even a concern
<jtaylor> if its broken revert to normal package, build, and upgrade again
<persia> Because it prevents backport of the rbuilddep (either official or local), and may cause other odd unexpected behaviour with co-install.
<persia> With the test, only one person has to have the 6GB RAM, rather than everyone who wants to use the potentially broken rbuilddep
<jtaylor> backports depending on backports doesn't work anyway
<persia> Why not?
<jtaylor> because lp can't handle it
<jtaylor> also a backport of yade is fixed anyway
<persia> How can't lp handle it?
<jtaylor> don't know
<persia> Not, specifically what code path is broken, but in what manner is this non-handling?
<jtaylor> let me look for the bug
<jtaylor> bug 888665
<ubottu> bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<persia> Ah, excellent.  Hrm.  That makes it annoying.
<tumbleweed> compared to micahg's favourate packages, 6GB of RAM is nothing
<persia> Anyway, so it becomes annoying, but there may still be folk who want to build, so we should do our best to ensue that the rbuilddeps can build with *either* version safely.
<persia> (this is why backporting libraries almost never happens: there are rbuilddeps that tend to make everything painful)
<jtaylor> so basically anything with nontricial rdepends is not backportable?
<jtaylor> because of non-automatic even backporting yade will not help
<persia> I'm not a backporter, but that's how I've generally understood the backport policy.
<jtaylor> as people will not by default build the backported yade but the offficial one
<jtaylor> ok one could add versioned depends into the backport
<dholbach> tumbleweed, Laney: do you think we could get another "working with Debian/Upstream for fun and profit" session at UDW together? :)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Timetable still has a bit of free space
<mohamedalaa98> Hello guys
<mohamedalaa98> :D
<mohamedalaa98> I've a question :D
<mohamedalaa98> How can I get my application in ubuntu software center?
<micahg> jtaylor: do you need someone to test build yade (I have 6GB RAM)
<micahg> infinity: poke on the backports depending on backports bug (feel free to decline over vacation)
<infinity> micahg: I've been looking at mangling sbuild to satisfy everyone's wishes on that bug, but even if I fix it locally, we certainly won't roll it out over the holidays.
<micahg> infinity: ok, sure, no problem, you just asked to be reminded when you weren't busy :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-22
<bobweaver> Hello there I am makeing a qt5 app and I need to make sure that the tool kit is installed for package to work. I am wondering if there is a way in a package(or LP)  to say This ppa needs to be installed in order for someone to install package . It seems that there is no reason Why I should copy something to my ppa when it is on LP all-ready . Am I right in thinking that way? Thanks for your time and Happy Holidays
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-23
<micahg> ooh, shiny archive rebuilds :)
 * penguin42 is starting to build up a small collection of trivial fixes for fortify type failures in universe packages
<penguin42> problem is they don't tend to go very far since they're not particularly important, but they don't actually fail on debian
<micahg> maybe try to push them all the way upstream?  if it'll fail the build in Ubuntu, we should probably take the fix so the next person doesn't go hunting
<penguin42> micahg: In some cases upstream is pretty much dead
<penguin42> bug 891939
<ubottu> bug 891939 in horgand (Ubuntu) "horgand segfaults at startup (due to buffer overflow)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891939
<penguin42> then theres one I did today which is bug 1008011
<ubottu> bug 1008011 in barrage (Ubuntu) "Barrage does not open - crashes with SIGABRT" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1008011
<penguin42> that's actually fixed upstream, but it's broken for us until Debian gets around to updating
<micahg> penguin42: if upstream is dead, see if it's getting any attention in Debian, might be worth trying to remove
<penguin42> micahg: Yeh, although isn't Debian just stuck at the moment until they manage to get their release done?
<penguin42> sometime in the next year or two :-)
<micahg> not exactly
<micahg> uploads can still happen in experimental, in addition for that package, there's a new upstream version not in Debian, that's also the Debian multimedia team, who is usually more than happy to take Ubuntu fixes
<penguin42> some stuff can get stuck in Debian for a heck of a long time, our bug 771589 is debian bug 607028 but there's been a newer version of the source in that bug for 2 years that never made it to release
<ubottu> bug 771589 in fbb (Ubuntu) "fbb buffer overflow" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771589
<ubottu> Debian bug 607028 in fbb "fbb: Newer version available" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/607028
<penguin42> (Actually that one is fun because in the end it boils down to a y2k bug!)
<micahg> maybe e-mail the ham radio team or see how you can help
<penguin42> yeh, I did add a comment to 607028 asking that the fix that was already attached be added, and as I understand they are subscribed to that
<micahg> penguin42: maybe ask kamal
<penguin42> thanks, I'll keep an eye out
<penguin42> time for bed now I think
<shadeslayer> hey, could we potentially SRU this : https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/4901
<shadeslayer> transmission-qt won't work with firefox and magnet links, which is a pretty serious problem imho
<shadeslayer> or for that matter, any browser
<micahg> shadeslayer: looks fine to me, but IANA SRU team member
<shadeslayer> okay, I'll file a request for it on Monday
<shadeslayer> and then see if the SRU team will approve it
<micahg> shadeslayer: let's upload, looks simple enough, they review in queue now anyways (unless you think it might really not make it)
<shadeslayer> okay
<shadeslayer> can I send you a debdiff for Raring first?
<shadeslayer> because even raring doesn't have that at the moment
<micahg> yeah, make a bug, attach all the debdiffs (start with raring), and we can go from there
<shadeslayer> okay
<shadeslayer> micahg: 1093220
<shadeslayer> erm
<shadeslayer> bug 1093220
<ubottu> bug 1093220 in transmission (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Fix transmission-qt to open magnet links from a browser" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093220
<shadeslayer> I'm checking if precise has the same issue as well
<shadeslayer> mmm yes
<micahg> shadeslayer: you need dep3 headers for your patches
<shadeslayer> okay
<shadeslayer> micahg: http://paste.kde.org/630242/
<shadeslayer> I don't have the Authors email address
<micahg> shadeslayer: ok, please add Bug-Ubuntu as well
<shadeslayer> okay
<shadeslayer> micahg: done
<shadeslayer> subscribed ubuntu-sru as well
 * Elbrus requested a sync yesterday for winff. It failed on powerpc, apperently because fpc (the compiler) got automatically synced around the same time. Do I need to request a give-back?
<Elbrus> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/winff/1.5.0~beta-1/+build/4166856
<jtaylor> Elbrus: I'll retry it
<Laney> too late, i did :-)
<jtaylor> :(
<Elbrus> great, thanks all
<Elbrus> by the way, is there a way to get notified automatically of such failures?
 * Elbrus was just looking if everything was allright.
 * Elbrus now looks at his other sync requests of yesterday
<Laney> sadly not with native syncs
<Elbrus> ok
<Laney> keep an eye on https://launchpad.net/~/+synchronised-packages
<Elbrus> Laney: great page
<Elbrus> but it does not exactly tell me the failures, does it?
<Elbrus> sorry, at the end
<Elbrus> ...did winff already succeed..
<Elbrus> hmm, building is no failure I guess
<Laney> it's not failed any more because it's building
<Laney> indeed
<Zhenech> SpamapS, could you have another look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monkeystudio/+bug/1074845, i totaly forgot to add the lp bug to the changelog :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1074845 in monkeystudio (Ubuntu Quantal) "monkeystudio crashes while displaying menu tooltips" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Elbrus> Laney, jtaylor: build is now successful, thanks
<Laney> good stuff
<achiang> what is ubuntu policy for the debian Uploaders: field?
<achiang> does that get turned into some XSBC-* equivalent?
<tumbleweed> no, we ignore it
<achiang> ok, so it's ok to keep it if debian introduced it?
<tumbleweed> achiang: yes
<achiang> thx
 * achiang struggles through a remmina merge
<Unit193> Thanks for the merge though!
<achiang> hm, i wonder if i just broke my in-flight wifi. ;)
<achiang> pulling build-deps for remmina...
<achiang> ah, and DNS is working again. :)
<achiang> can anyone clue me in as to why quilt might not be passing the -p arg to diff when doing a quilt refresh? in ~/.quiltrc, i have:
<achiang> 	QUILT_DIFF_ARGS="-p ab --no-timestamps --no-index --color=auto"
<achiang> 	QUILT_REFRESH_ARGS="-p ab --no-timestamps --no-index"
<achiang> 	QUILT_DIFF_OPTS="-p"
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-16
<sontek> I'm trying to build my first package to put on a PPA and I followed some of the MOTU tutorials but I'm currently getting the error: "dh_install: libmemcached-dev missing files (usr/share/pkgconfig/*), aborting"
<sontek> what did I miss?
<tumbleweed> sontek: you listed files in debian/libmemcached-dev.install that don't exist
<tumbleweed> in this case presumably the .pc file
<Logan_> ABI transitions need to die. Like, right now.
<tumbleweed> ABI transitions are better than segfaults
<Logan_> TouchÃ©.
<Logan_> I'm dealing with this mess right now: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/openmpi1.6.html
<Logan_> To make it even better, there are tons of conflicts(?) with other transitions.
<Logan_> And packages that now decide to FTBFS.
<Logan_> The transition tracker should let you leave notes on packages.
<tumbleweed> MPI, fun
<tumbleweed> you can leave notes on transition trackers, but not on the packages themselves. patches welcome, I guess
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-17
<dholbach> good morning
<owl> hi
<owl> how to solve, package-contains-info-dir-file usr/share/info/dir.gz
<owl> lintian
<josePHPagoda> hello everyone!
<josePHPagoda> I'm wondering how I would go about proposing a package?
<tumbleweed> josePHPagoda: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/packaging-new-software.html#submitting-for-inclusion
<TheLordOfTime> isn't it always suggested to go the Debian route first so it gets synced into Ubuntu?
<josePHPagoda> this isn't really new software though, more an update for a currently broken package included in 13.10
<TheLordOfTime> (assuming a new package)
<josePHPagoda> (also broken in 13.04)
<josePHPagoda> even though upstream has been fixed for over a year
<josePHPagoda> but I'd rather not compile from scratch
<TheLordOfTime> mind if i ask what package?
<TheLordOfTime> (curious)
<josePHPagoda> it's the wacom drivers package
<josePHPagoda> they work with the stylus, but are broken when trying to use the wacom mouse (no clicking registers)
<josePHPagoda> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2139480
<josePHPagoda> describes the issue
<josePHPagoda> the solution proposed is to compile from scratch, which isn't great for this sort of thing
<TheLordOfTime> um...
<TheLordOfTime> i'm not certain you *can* submit a replacement package for 13.04 and 13.19
<TheLordOfTime> 13.10*
 * TheLordOfTime isn't a MOTU, but i think there's regulations around how things're updated for 13.04 and 13.10
<Noskcaj10> josePHPagoda, Is this just an update or a complete new package?
<TheLordOfTime> i know that if Trusty is sane, they've got the latest thing from Debian
<josePHPagoda> it's an update
<Noskcaj10> If it's minor we could SRU it, but either way it needs to be working in trusty first
<josePHPagoda> there was a PPA, but it looks like 13.10 doesn't see any benefit
<Noskcaj10> what's the package name?
<TheLordOfTime> josePHPagoda, what's the actual package name(s), and have you tested Trusty to see if it works?
<TheLordOfTime> whoopsies, Noskcaj10 said that xD
 * TheLordOfTime slaps self
<josePHPagoda> I haven't tested in trusty
<josePHPagoda> i only have a single production machine
<josePHPagoda> can't sacrifice the other
<josePHPagoda> err
<josePHPagoda> can't sacrifice it to run the other version of Ubuntu
<josePHPagoda> let me see if I can find the package name
<TheLordOfTime> Noskcaj, couldn't he in theory test from the live environment to see if it works?
<TheLordOfTime> (for trusty)
<Noskcaj> TheLordOfTime, I assume so
<TheLordOfTime> ... oh that reminds me I'm missing a Trusty environment to test.
 * TheLordOfTime grabs a copy of latest
<josePHPagoda> xf86-input-wacom
<TheLordOfTime> josePHPagoda, you could in theory boot to a LiveUSB or LiveCD and see if it works.
<josePHPagoda> I _think_
<TheLordOfTime> X.Org X Server -- Wacom Input Driver
<TheLordOfTime> (from Debian packages.qa - http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xf86-input-wacom.html)
<josePHPagoda> TheLordOfTime: yeah
<josePHPagoda> would that help at all if I did that?
<TheLordOfTime> looks like there were updates in the past couple months in Debian
<josePHPagoda> so this could be a case of debian just being a little slow to pull from upstream?
<TheLordOfTime> trusty looks like it has that
<TheLordOfTime> josePHPagoda, or, a case of Debian being slow, but yes, it looks to be in Trusty
<josePHPagoda> i hope it's fixed
<josePHPagoda> i haven't been able to use the mouse on my tablet for over a year :(
<TheLordOfTime> josePHPagoda, as i said, test Trusty, boot to a LiveUSB/LiveCD and test it
<TheLordOfTime> that *may* be able ot be used for testing purposes
<josePHPagoda> it'd be suitable for limited testing
<Noskcaj> Does http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=721916 or http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=675802 sound like your issue?
<josePHPagoda> i coul dsee if the total breakage is usable
<ubottu> Debian bug 721916 in xserver-xorg-input-wacom "xserver-xorg-input-wacom: the version of wacom driver in debian is obsolete and causes X11 lockups" [Important,Fixed]
<ubottu> Debian bug 675802 in xserver-xorg-input-wacom "xserver-xorg-input-wacom: "Touch Ring" stops working on Wacom MTE-450." [Normal,Fixed]
<josePHPagoda> Noskcaj: no
<josePHPagoda> it's a diff issue
<josePHPagoda> similar, but diff
<josePHPagoda> anyways, it looks like trusty will have the fix
<josePHPagoda> i'll fetch and burn a livecd and test it out when I get a chance
<josePHPagoda> :)
<TheLordOfTime> s/will/might/
<josePHPagoda> TheLordOfTime: doesn't ubuntu source off of debian testing?
<TheLordOfTime> there's no guarantee there's a fix in Trusty or Debian
<Noskcaj> For this particular package, we don't
<josePHPagoda> oh?
<josePHPagoda> is there any particular reason why?
<TheLordOfTime> indeed, just saw that myself
<Noskcaj> if the issue is fixed in the list at bug 1235615 , we fixed this in trusty
<ubottu> bug 1235615 in xf86-input-wacom (Ubuntu) "FFe: xf86-input-wacom 0.23.0" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235615
<Noskcaj> And someone one #ubuntu-x will know
<Noskcaj> *on
<josePHPagoda> 7a1aadb24b65738 Resume button events for pucks
<josePHPagoda> that looks like the issue I was having
<josePHPagoda> but I'm not 100% sure
<josePHPagoda> how can i get the link for the original bug report?
<Noskcaj> The install the relevant .deb  from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+package/xserver-xorg-input-wacom and see if it works
<josePHPagoda> can I just install that in 13.10?
<TheLordOfTime> you could do that, too... maybe if you install by hand, unless it has a specific kernel requirement
<josePHPagoda> i just don't want to bork my current environment
<josePHPagoda> kind of important for work :)
<TheLordOfTime> you're kinda limited on your testing options then
<TheLordOfTime> limited testing perhaps in a Live environment, but without a trusty environment to fully test in...
<josePHPagoda> yeah
<Noskcaj> There's very little that can go wrong just by installing that .deb. No new dependencies were added
<josePHPagoda> ok
<josePHPagoda> i'll try it, and if it doesn't work, how's the best way to roll back to the current version?
<Noskcaj> Just uninstall it, then install from the software center
<Unit193> sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-wacom=1:0.20.0-0ubuntu1
<josePHPagoda> brb
<TheLordOfTime> or Unit193's statement :)
<TheLordOfTime> that works too
<TheLordOfTime> bleh, speaking of production environments, SSL died on my server >.<  (gotta fix it... back in a bit)
<Logan_> Holy transition. http://cl.ly/image/0C3u0c2Z2y0R
<TheLordOfTime> o.O
<josePHPagoda> yay! so now the tablet seems to be working perfectly
<josePHPagoda> so that's excellent
<josePHPagoda> thanks for your help everyone
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-18
<jtaylor> so what is ppc64el? whats the difference to the other arches?
<jtaylor> have I missed a mail on -devel about it?
<jtaylor> so its little endian, why is it named el not le? oO
<rbasak> Debian uses el for whatever reason. armel, mips64el.
<rbasak> I don't know what it means or the history around it.
<Laney> I thought it was an endianness joke, but eb exists so maybe not
<xnox> jtaylor: rbasak: Laney: i always thought it was a clever pun: little endian - le - 6C 65, would be stored in memory as 65 6C (little endian) and thus it's "el" most significant letter last ;-)
<Laney> yeah
<rbasak> Well, that's debatable :)
<xnox> rbasak: if one doesn't know endianess a self-declared "le" appears as "el" value ;-)))) or rather your BigEndian machine will see it as such ;-)
<rbasak> It's only gets reversed in memory because you did the initial conversion in big endian :)
<xnox> rbasak: memory addresses are sequential ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness
<rbasak> Yeah sure, but you read 6C 65 out of memory, and convert it to an integer, and then to hex, and then print it here.
<rbasak> The endianness comes into play when you convert to an integer.
<rbasak> Nothing gets swapped.
<rbasak> It's ASCII->integer when you have the endianness question. So saying that le is el in little endian doesn't really work.
<rbasak> (or 2-byte -> 16 bit integer, if you like)
<jtaylor> wgrant: so ppc64el is long double = 16 byte but 80 bit precision?
<jtaylor> I'm trying to understand your numpy patch
<wgrant> jtaylor: It's the same as ppc64, except the bytes within each double are flipped.
<jtaylor> are you planing on forwarding it upstream?
<jtaylor> also are there porterboxes available numpys test segfaults with python-dbg
<wgrant> jtaylor: Modern qemu-system-ppc64 can do LE
<wgrant> jtaylor: We don't have a pregenerated image for it, though.
<jtaylor> qemu sucks for floating point
<jtaylor> it doesn'T seem to respect ieee754
<wgrant> Hm
<wgrant> Anyway, we barely have buildds atm, no porter boxes yet. qemu *should* work fine.
<wgrant> The primary archive isn't quite debootstrappable yet, but http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/bootstrap/ppc64el is.
<jtaylor> I'll give it a try
<jtaylor> if you have access to a machine, it would be grat if you could just give me a backtrace
<wgrant> Let me see what I can do.
<wgrant> Thanks for looking
<glenford> sd
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-19
<seanz> Greetings humans.
<seanz> Can someone explain the difference between a source and a binary Debian package?
<seanz> I get the literal difference, but I don't get what each is used for exactly.
<achiang> seanz: a source package is used to create a binary package. a binary package is the thing you actually install with apt-get
<achiang> seanz: a single source package can create multiple binary packages
<Unit193> Unless he's talking about a binary blob package?
<achiang> oh... maybe. not sure
<highvoltage> achiang: basically a source package is what a packager works with. it's a directory with source code and binaries and a debian directory containing scripts and metadata. a binary package is a .deb file that contains the results of a built source package
<dholbach> good morning
<achiang> highvoltage: yes, i was trying to explain that to whoever asked about the difference yesterday :)
<highvoltage> achiang: cool
<seanz> achiang: Thanks for the info. I'm trying to nail down what *exactly* I need to create. I'm packaging up a Java war file, essentially, but I want to "do it right" and probably build a source package and have that properly compiled to a binary package.
<seanz> highvoltage: Thanks as well for your info.
<seanz> So would you all recommend I build a source package, or compile my war file separately and skip straight to the binary package?
<seanz> achiang, highvoltage: ^ ^ ^
<highvoltage> seanz: if you build a package only containing a war package, then you can't upload it to debian or ubuntu
<highvoltage> seanz: you'll need a source package if you'd ever want to upload it to ubuntu or a PPA
<seanz> highvoltage: That makes sense, but when I actually have both, and the changes file and the description file, I'm actually uploading them all at once, aren't I? Or am I solely uploading the source file?
<seanz> Or source package.
<highvoltage> seanz: you would upload the source package
<seanz> highvoltage: So if I were also going to set up an apt server, would I want to set it up such that it automatically builds from source packages?
<seanz> ...and let that generate the binary .deb upon upload?
<highvoltage> seanz: depends what you want to do or what the point of that server is. if it's a build server, then you probably want that. if you just want an apt repository, it's fine having binary only or source only or both
<seanz> highvoltage: Thanks for answering my questions. Technically, I could probably get away with having just an apt repository, but I'm thinking the most versatile way would be to have a build server.
<seanz> I'm thinking that would keep the packaging process the most straightforward and unchanging.
<highvoltage> seanz: easiest really is to upload to a PPA
<highvoltage> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<seanz> highvoltage: Ok, checking the link.
<highvoltage> might be better getting aquanted with that before investing in building your own build infrastructure
<highvoltage> and the process of uploading there is very similar to uploading to debian/ubuntu, so you get a good start on how things work if you follow that
<seanz> highvoltage: Good point, though the server we're building is for internal use only. I could potentially use a PPA for testing first.
<highvoltage> seanz: *nod*
<mfisch> after I make a divert in the preinst, I should be able to drop a file on top of where the original was, right?
<mfisch> I'm either making a silly mistake or have forgotten how to do this
<mfisch> for example: dpkg-divert --package foo --add --rename /usr/foo.orig /usr/foo and then in my install file I drop in a new /usr/foo
<mfisch> (in my example I forgot the --divert arg but I have it in the preinst)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-20
<dholbach> good morning
<tamrat> Hello everyone. I'm seeing that gdal in trusty tahr has two versions: one in proposed and one in release.
<tamrat> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdal
<tamrat> I was wondering what it would take to make sure 1.10 would reach trusty when it is released (I know it will require rebuilds of depending packages)
<tamrat> I could not find a description of the proposed archive for the active development distribution
<Noskcaj> tamrat, It will move to release when it builds on ppc64el and arm64
<Noskcaj> As for updates, just make sure the people listed at http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gdal.html update it
<tamrat> I'm in that list :-)
<tamrat> I just wanted to be sure that ubuntu would pick up our latest version
<Noskcaj> tamrat, As long as it builds in ubuntu, we will
<tamrat> Noskcaj, ok thanks, I will check the missing dependencies and whether I can do anything about them
#ubuntu-motu 2013-12-22
<Noskcaj> Can someone please try and build kitchen. I can't reproduce the ftbfs and i think it was just a bad gettext version
<Wubix> hello everyone
<Noskcaj> hey Wubix
<Wubix> is this here (among other things) the right place to ask for a bug review?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<Wubix> great :) cause i filed this bug recently: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1263389 and maybe i can get some feedback
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1263389 in debirf (Ubuntu) "make xkiosk is aborted with return code 127" [Undecided,New]
<Wubix> maybe i am missing some info
<Noskcaj> I can't see anything you're missing. Someone will fix it, it just takes time.
<Wubix> ok :)
<aswininm> hi anyone can I build  a deb package independent of the source platform(c,c++,perl,python...)
<aswininm> ?
<Zhenech> yeah. but thats not a real question :)
<mitya57> aswininm: Have you read the guide @ http://packaging.ubuntu.com/ ?
<aswininm> i am on it ..:)
<j_f-f> Hi. Is debirf a well maintained packet?
<Noskcaj> j_f-f, It's at http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debirf.html , looks like it could use some help
<j_f-f> Noskcaj: some is good ;)
<psusi> so I'm trying to debug a crash with a coredump, and I set /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern back to "core" to generate the core dump instead of running apport... and ulimit -c unlimited, but the generated core dump file is only a few kb in size and gdb says it isn't valid because it's truncated, any idea what's wrong?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-15
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-16
<dholbach> good morning
<sil2100> Morning!
<Rhonda> So, I've forgotten again what was needed for a backport â¦  :)
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> Can the person providing the ubuntu-dev-tools package for Debian update it in wheezy-backports?  The wheezy-backports package devscripts conflicts with the version in wheezy. :)
<Rhonda> tumbleweed?  bdrung?  :)
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: ah, because of the python->python3 transition in it
<Rhonda> I don't know why, "it not install"  :P
 * tumbleweed is attempting a quick backport
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-17
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> $
<sil2100> Â£
<tumbleweed> â¬
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-18
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-19
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> gude monin
#ubuntu-motu 2014-12-21
<justin_time> Hello everyone. I built new packages for the PPA of the tomahawk project and my aim is to upgrade the tomahawk packages in the universes sources. In ubuntu 15.04 there is only one missing dependence: "libechonest2.3". In the sources there is "libechonest2.1" and Ubuntu imports the package from debian sid but a upgrade is not possible there because of the freeze process. Would it be possible to upgrade the package for ubuntu directl
<justin_time> y?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-14
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-15
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> hi!
<Unit193> Howdy.
<tumbleweed> hi
<Laney> â¥
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-16
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-17
<dholbach> good morning
<Adri2000> do I still need to attach the debdiff to the bug report for an SRU?
<teward> Adri2000, wouldn't hurt, in my opinion - even for SRUs for packages I have upload rights on, I attach the debdiffs to those bugs - that way SRU team can peek at it and determine if it's viable
<teward> that's just how I do things, but...
#ubuntu-motu 2015-12-18
<dholbach> good morning
<tsimonq2> o/ dholbach
<dholbach> hi tsimonq2
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-19
<fossfreedom> hi all!  anyone around interested in sponsoring our (Ubuntu Budgie) lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu merge proposal? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1644976
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1644976 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "ubuntu budgie slideshow proposal" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-20
<roaksoax>  /win 15
#ubuntu-motu 2017-12-18
<pozio304> âââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETzyvinf: ratliff doppo _ruben [reed] shadeslayer micahg roaksoax rbasak dcmorton DktrKranz sbeattie tumbleweed ssweeny ember nhandler Elimin8er flexiondotorg Adri2000 chrisccoulson G tai271828 Unit193 pipedream dragan-s hggdh Mirv slangasek sla
<pozio304> ââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETapmelqyy: G DktrKranz lifeless chiluk sladen bluesabre WaVeR _ruben dragan-s roaksoax tlbr ochosi tai271828 bschaefer hyperair slashd Laney Logan sbeattie LordOfBikes [reed] dcmorton micahg Elimin8er ember ubottu ratliff chrisccoulson doppo Adri2000 ubo
<pozio304> âââââââââââââââ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETxttprfmvf: DktrKranz iulian ubot9 Elimin8er WaVeR ochosi grumble Adri2000 tlbr micahg acheronuk _ruben sbeattie roaksoax Mirv flexiondotorg ubottu bschaefer el sladen chrisccoulson Unit193 Laney mdeslaur dragan-s shadeslayer pipedream bluesabr
<tsimonq2> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elky, Unit193, PriceChild, or jpds!
<tsimonq2> Sick and tired of these things :/
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Bit late mate.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Gosh darnit.
 * tsimonq2 sighs
<handsome_feng> Hi, everyone! There are two new packages called kylin-display-switch and kylin-video wanted to get into Ubuntu (LP: #1738680 LP:#1738366), could any MOTU take a look at these? Thanks. and BTW, thanks tsimonq2. :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1738680 in Ubuntu Kylin "[needs-packaging] kylin-video" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738680
<handsome_feng> sorry, LP: #1738366
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1738366 in Ubuntu Kylin "[needs-packaging] kylin-display-switch" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1738366
<tsimonq2> handsome_feng: np ;)
<tsimonq2> handsome_feng: I did link it to a MOTU I know who's really good at reviewing packages :)
<handsome_feng> tsimonq2: Thanks again.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-12-17
<dupondje> Its never possible to sync a new version into LTS ?
<dupondje> Always needs a patch on top of the current version?
<dupondje> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-htmlpurifier -> Bionic would need 4.10.0-1, as current bionic versions throws deprecated warnings
<dupondje> 4.7.0, released 2015-08-04 damn old :P
<rbasak> dupondje: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
#ubuntu-motu 2018-12-19
<pakcjo> Hello, I have a situation with gtk+3.0 and ubuntu 18, I'm trying to rebuild it from source (no modifications) but it alwasy fails, last I did was apt-get source --compile gtk+3.0 and it failed, the error is not very descriptive, it seems to be while running check-recursive target
<pakcjo> for ubuntu 18.04.1
<fossfreedom> Hi all - if anyone is in a festive mood and wants to give a xmas present to the Ubuntu Budgie team - this package sponsorship request would be most welcome :)  TIA  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1809120
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1809120 in Ubuntu "DesktopFolder sponsorship for 19.04 Disco" [Wishlist,In progress]
