#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-04
<ali1234> my motherboard has two sata controllers on it - which one should i use? the integrated chipset one, or the extra one? or should i put 1 drive on each?
<ali1234> i ask because disk io makes my machine unusable for long periods
<directhex> ali1234, use the integrated one, in AHCI mode
<ali1234> ok, i think that's what i am doing
<directhex> disk io making things slow is... well, something linux sucks at
<ali1234> it seems excessive though
<ali1234> for example, when i hit swap, page fault latency = 1.2 seconds
<ali1234> that basically locks up the machine, even logging in on a console can take 5 minutes
<directhex> ali1234, i did mention it sucks, right? linux doesn't prioritize interactive stuffs
<directhex> now i'm going to bed.
<ali1234> 1.2 seconds is still excessive especially when it locks up all tasks, not just the task that had the pf
<ali1234> anyway going to play with swappiness maybe that will help
<MartijnV1S> \o
<shauno> mornin MartijnVdS
<knightwise> morning
<ging> morning
<knightwise> morning ging
<daubers> Morning
<knightwise> mornign douglasawh-work
<knightwise> morning daubers
<knightwise> everything ok over there ,
<AlanChicken> morning
<AlanChicken> gah
<AlanBell> better
<daubers> :)
<ging> you can get gingerdogs?
<knightwise> hey AlanBell
<HazRPG> hey
<HazRPG> wow its AM...
<HazRPG> bad sleeping pattern is bad...
 * daubers needs to get a parcel from rubbish city link shortly
<HazRPG> daubers: heh, I always hate getting a package from them too
<HazRPG> means I need to drive for like 45 mins to get it :?
<daubers> stupid shaver breaking down and then city link not actually delivering the new on on saturday
<daubers> HazRPG: Luckily they're only about 10 minutes from me
<daubers> traffic depending
<HazRPG> UPS is the worst for me, although its nearer... its in the centre of town, so I have to drive through the dreadful one-way system and get stuck in all the traffic
<daubers> They're all roughly in the same place here. UPS and citylink are a bit worse to get to as you have to go under a narrow bridge, which is a major bottleneck in the mornings
<daubers> also, that road is shutting for a week in a months time so that network rail can put in another bridge
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> see they use to all be in the same place for me at one point, but they keep shifting their offices around from time to time
<daubers> HazRPG: This is the bridge they put in a bit further up over new year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL9m00_OBrI :)
<HazRPG> daubers: heh, wow they actually made a time-lapse video :P
<daubers> :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 14th April 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | Happy Birthday popey (very old)
<daubers> Quite impressive
<daubers> the timelapse, not popeys age
<HazRPG> daubers: :P
<HazRPG> popey: Happy birthday squire :)
<HazRPG> I love how the bridge looks like it was randomly just slotted in there xD
<daubers> They had to close a major dual carriageway to do that
<daubers> Was impressed that they did it all in a couple of dats
<daubers> days
<HazRPG> hmm, you clearly haven't seen Saudi construction ;)
<daubers> :p
<daubers> right
<daubers> off to city link I go!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: is it that good or that bad? :)
<HazRPG> I've seen them build skyscrapers in a few weeks/months
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'd say it was impressive
<HazRPG> they resurface whole 8-12 lane roads in like a few days
<cps> morning everyone :-)
<HazRPG> they just block the whole thing off... resurface, and work until its done
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I wonder about builder safety, building safety (building codes, etc.)
<HazRPG> here where I'm at, it'll take them weeks/months before they've even got one side of a 2 lane road done!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Because it's not the only place being resurfaced, and there being a limited supply of asphalt
<ging> HazRPG: they hire an army of forign imigrants and dont give them any real health and safety protection rules
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: most construction companies are run by british/american/french people ;)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: French people. There you go :P
<HazRPG> lol
<MartijnVdS> Well, they're not all bad. Gandi.net is good :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Didn't realise asphalt was in limited supply :/
<MartijnVdS> But our VOIP provider at work is bad bad bad
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not in SA, the land of unlimited petroleum products :)
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> I love how everyone in the world forget it has a K in SA
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you should watch the relevant Top Gear episode. It shows the "pain points" quite nicely (if you filter out the Top Gearness)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe
<MartijnVdS> a K?
<HazRPG> Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> Yeah the other SA has a R in front
<HazRPG> South Africa?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<HazRPG> Republic of?
<MartijnVdS> exactement
<HazRPG> exactamondo! (fav word :P)
<MooDoo> hello
<HazRPG> MooDoo: howdy
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS HazRPG
<HazRPG> hey knightwise :)
<HazRPG> I love this guy xD
<HazRPG> (Rhod Gilbert)
<ging> MartijnVdS: who is you voip provider?
<MartijnVdS> ging: completel.fr
<ging> they sound like they are in france
<MartijnVdS> ging: their SOAP interface comes with French error messages
<HazRPG> \o/
<knightwise> you gotta love that !:)-
<HazRPG> ooo I always wondered how other distros did that!
<HazRPG> learned a new trick!
<MartijnVdS> which one?
<HazRPG> fortune | cowsay -n -f tux.cow
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are more files for cowsay :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also try fortune -o for "offensive" material (to USians anyway)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah I know, but tux.cow is my fav :)
<popey> morning all and thanks for the birthday wishes :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: Oh, it's your birthday? Congratifications!
<HazRPG> morning :)
 * MartijnVdS gets off popey's lawn, pre-emptively
<HazRPG> :P
<knightwise> Happy birthday popey. Aren't you considered a 'predator" hanging out with young kids like us ?
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> all the old jokes, out in force I see xD
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: !coc
<popey> hahah
<HazRPG> hmm, guessing APTonCD only grabs stuff that's cached that hasn't been removed
<HazRPG> (noticing the lack of other stuff I've installed)
<diplo> morning
<dwatkins> moin moin
<dwatkins> oh wait, this is the uk channel... ;)
<DJones> Morning all
<hoover> mornin all
<HazRPG> I must say, I'm so glad ubuntu automatically cleans out its /tmp folder... :)
<DJones> Has anybody got any recommendations on broadband dongles/networks, looking for pay as you go with a reasonable price/data limit
<popey> DJones: yes, get a phone that does it, one less thing to carry
<popey> and one less subscription to pay
<DJones> popey: I've got that, but the limit is only 500Mb, was looking for something with higher limit, its only a short term thing while we're away next week
<knightwise> DJones: what country ?
<DJones> knightwise: uk
<popey> DJones: orange?
<DJones> Their coverage doesn't look to great over in skegness, just looking at the coverage maps
<HazRPG> I wonder if there's a way to cluster some mumble servers together...
<popey> DJones: no, i meant, is that who you currently use
<DJones> No, vodafone
<popey> DJones: what phone and network do you have that gives you 500M?
<DJones> and Desire HD
<popey> ok, have you enabled tethering and tested it?
 * gpd_ just bought a Vodafone Sure Signal... :)
<DJones> I know I can tether, but I'd rather keep that data plan just for the phone
<popey> have you tried it?
<DJones> 3 seem to have the best price, Â£30.99 for 3gb
<popey> do you know that it comes from the 500MB allocation?
<popey> On orange it doesn't
<popey> e.g. I pay for 10GB/mo, which I use on the phone. if I tether the phone it goes via a different APN, and the limit on that is 500MB
<DJones> Yes, I tried it on my when I got the phone, the bandwidth did get used up
<DJones> 3 use the ZTE MF112 dongle
<popey> why not just bump up the allocation on your phone?
<DJones> Just looking at that now
<gpd> popey: if that was to me, then yes, works very well.
<popey> gpd: it wasn't :)
<gpd> kfine /me sulks off
<HazRPG> I wonder what time Subway opens... have a craving for a foot long tuna sub
<gpd> anyone got Virgin 30Mb broadband or BT Infinity? considering switching from O2...
<Tommeh> gpd: if you go the BT "Infinity" route, you can buy it from someone other than BT ;)
<Tommeh> Like you would ADSL
<Tommeh> It's not their exclusive.
<gpd> apparently neither do static IP
<Tommeh> Whereas Virgin is locked to Virgin and .. It's Virgin.
<gpd> Tommeh: really? I thought Infinity was fibre and BT only at this point?
<Tommeh> You've been suckered in by the marketing then ;)
<gpd> how is it 50 Mb on a standard phoen line then?
<Tommeh> VDSL2
<Tommeh> The fibre is run to the cabinet on your street, a-la Virgin Media
<Tommeh> And then it's 'Very high rate Digital Subscriber Line' over the copper pair.
<gpd> ok - which is ADSL2+ on crack...
<Tommeh> It's basically ADSL over shorter distances.
<Tommeh> There's a bit more to it than that, but essentially.
<gpd> but i'm not seeing any other providers offering speeds >24Mb
<Tommeh> gpd: http://aaisp.net.uk will do FTTC connections (what BT refer to as Infinity)
<Tommeh> gpd: have a look for 'FTTC' products.
<directhex> trouble is, other FTTC providers are significantly more expensive, for capped bandwidth
<gpd> nice - thanks :)
<Tommeh> directhex: they're generally the smaller providers, so the focus is shifted a bit.
<Tommeh> Quality over quantity, etc.
<Tommeh> Saying that I was sure Zen could supply it, too.
<Tommeh> gpd: most of the other 'bigger' ISPs have their own LLU networks (like O2/Be, TalkTalk/Opal, Tiscali & Co.) and don't yet have VDSL products.
<directhex> yes. but their cheapest fttc package has a 50gb cao, for more money than BT
<Tommeh> Quality.. Over quantity.
<gpd> Zen is minimum Â£30/mo it seems + Â£75 activation
<directhex> 50gb is nothing.
<Tommeh> If you like BT then it's a good deal. But generally it's all smiles until you've got the product, then you can talk to India.
<gpd> i was happy enough with O2 8Mb for Â£7.5 but now it is Â£18 I'm looking at options
<dwatkins_> I tweeted to complain at BT and got replies from the UK. Their name is @btcare.
<Tommeh> Also run by marketing droids. They've been on at me before now :)
<directhex> marketing droids are useful
<directhex> more useful than indian script-readers
<Tommeh> It depends highly on the company, but I'd be tempted to agree.
<kazade> Happy Birthday popey !
<Tommeh> A lot of them are all talk and no action -- like Parallels ;)
<Tommeh> But that's a tangent
<Tommeh> I was just trying to point out to gpd that he didn't have to stick to Virgin/BT
<Tommeh> Plenty of choices out there.
<Neoti01> whats your thoughts on Virgin media 100Mb connection with there new modem ... ?
 * Tommeh doesn't trust Virgin Media as an ISP
<directhex> i don't have the choice of virgin. no cable around here.
<gpd> samknows.com gives status of FTTC (ok) and LLU operators - but no list of FTTC operators. :(
<Tommeh> So I'm afraid I can't comment on how well their DOCSIS3 implementation is scaling. :)
<popey> thanks kazade
<Neoti01> humm... i will have to do some testing on the new mobem and stuff then...
<Neoti01> though i would have prefered a modem and to supply my own router... ARGH!!!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps
<bigcalm> When talking about yourself, would you say ones or one's ?
<Tommeh> I don't think you're meant to contract it like that
<Tommeh> 'one is' 'one would' 'one has'
<bigcalm> Ah, but I'm using it in the possesive sense
<bigcalm> One's pet elephant
<Tommeh> Heh, I'd look for a precedent :)
<Tommeh> As I don't think that's considered correct
<bigcalm> Did a google and people seem to say one's for posessive
<bigcalm> I'll use it in a tweet and wait for the grammar nazis ;)
<knightwise> I leuvs to bait grammarnazi's :)
 * AlanBell waves to all the ops who have nazi on hilight o/
<knightwise> hiGhlight AlanBell....  hiGHlight
<AlanBell>  /hilight in irssi
<knightwise> AlanBell: are you waving with an outstretched right arm ?
<selinuxium_> o/
<knightwise> o/
 * selinuxium_ just waving hello...
<selinuxium_> ;)
<knightwise> somebody probably has a highlight on o/ too
<MattJ> \o/
<bigcalm> Heh
<knightwise> MattJ: is that a surrender to the spelling nazi's ?
<MattJ> Definitely not, I am one some days
<selinuxium_> Nartzee?
<MattJ> Yahtzee
<knightwise> selinuxium_: very clever!
 * knightwise checks if the hilight command words and types 'knightwise'
<knightwise> apparently not
 * popey waves back to AlanBell 
 * popey tickles GingerDog 
<knightwise> ok
 * czajkowski hugs popey Happy Birthday! 
<popey> \o/ thanks
<bigcalm> Happy birthday old man
<czajkowski> Iam loving NHS hospitals, you go in and tell them the drugs you need and they just write it out for you
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> many happy returns popey
<Neoti01> humm ... i'll walk in and ask for weed .... see if they right it out ... lol
<DJones> Neoti01: They'll just tell you to get a job as a gardener
<selinuxium_> czajkowski, Back on the Methodone?
<Neoti01> lol... good answer...
<selinuxium_> :)
<czajkowski> selinuxium_: valium, co-codmol diffine and something else
<selinuxium_> czajkowski, One very chilled czajkowski... :)
<czajkowski> pretty much I got sleep last night and only just woke up
<czajkowski> having some toast and going back to sleep
<oimon> please firefox can i have some resources back?   1673mb VIRT 1.1g  RES   75% cpu
<Neoti01> NO!!
<bigcalm> oimon: switch to chrome and use ff for dev work
<bigcalm> That is if you are a dev
<oimon> makes you wonder if the mozilla guys actually notice this problem themselves
<HazRPG> Anyone know how to make my rss feeds show up more information then it currently does? I'm using wordpress.
<HazRPG> It seems to only show snippets of what I've wrote.
<HazRPG> ah nevermind I think I've found it :D
<bigcalm> Tell it to use the whole post, not the teaser
<bigcalm> But I guess you just found that
<HazRPG> Yeah, just changed it in the "Settings->Reading" section
<HazRPG> although the feed still shows only a snippet
<bigcalm> shift + refresh
<HazRPG> nope lol, even tried CTRL+R
<HazRPG> have a look: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/feed/
<HazRPG> ah crud wrong site
<HazRPG> http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/feed/
<s-fox> Hello.
<knightwise> HazRPG: nice blog dude !
<knightwise> just added it to my GR :)
<HazRPG> knightwise: thanks :)
<knightwise> so make sure those feeds are "full feeds :)'
 * knightwise likes cowsay
<HazRPG> heh trying my best to make them full feeds :)
<popey> HazRPG: settings -> reading -> "For each article in a feed, show" - "Full feed" (radio button)
<popey> s/full feed/full text/
<HazRPG> popey: I did that :(
<knightwise> Fortune + twidge = Random twitter generator !
<HazRPG> still no joy
<popey> are you doing any kind of caching?
<HazRPG> knightwise: hehe nice :)
<knightwise> fortune + twidge + cron = Virtual twitter persona !
<HazRPG> popey: not unless cache is set by default on wordpress
<popey> your rss feed wasn't updated since 09:19
<popey> edit the post and republish it
<HazRPG> popey: done
<Tommeh> (gtk-update-icon-cache:6577): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory
<HazRPG> says 9:45:13 now
<HazRPG> bare in mind that's GMT
<Tommeh> ^ That is doing my head in. Every time something tries updating a package on upgrade to natty with relation to that, it locks the whole machine up.
<knightwise> hmm , anyone know how to get a DF command to output a single line , and not 2 LINES ?
<knightwise> i do df -h /dev/sda6 , but then you get 2 lines
<knightwise> and i would like to push the output into twidge
<hoover> sorry no idea knightwise, I always use elaborate greps for that ;-)
<popey> alan@bishop:~$ df -h / | tail -n 1
<popey> /dev/xvda1             30G   28G  845M  98% /
<hoover> or try the -P option
<knightwise> but of COURSE :)
<knightwise> Good old Tail !
<dwatkins_> tail and head can even get you the middle of the output, but grep might be better in some situations.
<HazRPG> ahh, seems the problem is with the type of rss feed
<HazRPG> using /atom/ instead of /feed/ seems to be fine
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> popey: Happy Birthday dude
<popey> thanks davmor2
<willy1977> morning - yep +1 to that have a good day popey...
<dwatkins_> have a great day, popey :)
<HazRPG> knightwise: quick heads up, update your rss feed to use http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/atom/ instead of http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/feed/
<popey> we kinda had my b'd yesterday so kids could see me unwrap my pressies
<knightwise> Done !
<knightwise> looks ok now
<popey> although most of the pressies were actually better for them than me
<knightwise> HazRPG: if you ever want to do a guest blogging item on knightwise.com , let me know !
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mr-Men-Little-Miss-Paladone/dp/B003ZYE2OI/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IPTJKL0WFHGDG&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Lets-Make-Dolphin-Sandwich/dp/B001HZIKFE/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I16RDOMGKSVFQV&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Lets-Make-Dinosaur-Sandwich/dp/B001HZNK54/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I300HUBJ6XYL46&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
<popey> although I do like the idea of dinosaur sarnies :)
<dwatkins> popey: we have a cut-out sandwich thing in the shape of two dinosaurs :)
<popey> thats ^^ that
<popey> :)
<popey> wifey seemed less inclined to buy this for me http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inspired-Gifts-Condiment-Gun/dp/B001FRNNNS/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2SLJT6F1GR1CX&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
<dwatkins> oh cool, the one I'm thinking of is called 'DynoBytes" on amazon
<dwatkins> http://www.amazon.com/Evriholder-EVCRSTD-DynoBytes-Sandwich-Cutter/dp/B00167X2Y2
<dwatkins> ah yes, same thing
<popey> :)
<dwatkins> perfect for people who don't like their crusts...
 * bigcalm hugs Invisible Hand
<oimon> how can i find out the price of an album on itunes website if i don't have itunes software?
<bigcalm> oimon: ask somebody else to look it up for you?
 * popey opens itunes
<dwatkins> I can see the prices on their website, oimon
<HazRPG> knightwise: cool, thanks :). Ditto, if ya ever fancy posting some ubuntu/linux/open-source based stuff feel free :)
<HazRPG> knightwise: let me know if you make an account, and I'll get it updated
<popey> oimon: name the song :)
<oimon> dwatkins: oh yes! that didn't used to be available :S can i buy without the software too?#
<popey> no
<popey> well, yes
<dwatkins> oimon: that's another question entirely, no idea ;)
<popey> if you have an iphone or ipad
<popey> (or ipod touch)
<oimon> none of those...i'm thinking it's just better to sell this voucher i have
<oimon> i have a windows partition somewhere
<oimon> what a palaver to buy an album
<gord> oh, merry birthday popey
<popey> ta
<gord> czajkowski, should have cake for you
<popey> oimon: you have an itunes voucher?
<czajkowski> gord: you're giving me cake
<oimon> yes popey
<popey> flog it on ebay?
<oimon> or give it as a present :P
<gord> ha, like its possible to give someone cake instead of just eating it yourself
<oimon> ebay would prob fetch Â£12 for a Â£15 voucher
<gord> sell it on a non eu ebay
<oimon> gord why's that?
<davmor2> czajkowski: you mean to say you don't love popey enough to make him a cake on his birthday......You're just pure evil woman! ;)
<gord> iirc if you get US voutchers you can buy things from the US store, stuff you can't get here. i assume it works the other way around too
<gord> so you can sell for more than its worth
<oimon> there seems to be millions of people selling itunes vouchers on the ebay
<directhex> she didn't make me hexmas cake either!
<popey> hmmm
<popey> popemass
<popey> sounds wrong
<popey> popemas
<gord> popeyween
<popey> hehe
<popey> popeyval
<willy1977> is there an easy way to tell what drive is mounted to f.e. /media/abcd ?
<gord> can't wait for the popey bunny to leave me eggs!
<popey> willy1977: mount
<willy1977> ta
<willy1977> my brain was in kernel panic
<directhex> i think gord has this one right
<davmor2> popey: popeyval sounds like a FB game
<popey> considering I hate forums, getting 4 emails from various ones saying "Happy birthday from ___ forums" is mildly amusing
<oimon> only popey gets wished happy birthday by the internet
<davmor2> popey: how about just popeyday (Said in the say flow as Saturday)
 * davmor2 has this song stuck in his head this morning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP7aNuqp_YU&feature=related
<oimon> i a while ago i kept waking up at 4am with this benny lava song going round my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdyC1BrQd6g
<willy1977> or popeysgiving ?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Hassan Williamson] Prettifying your terminal a bit& - http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/04/04/prettifying-your-terminal-a-bit/
<MartijnVdS> petrifying your terminal ;)
<willy1977> putrifying your terminal ?
<MartijnVdS> willy1977: well.. if you're terminal, putrifying is the next step
<willy1977> :p
<willy1977> time for another brew...
<gordonjcp> davmor2: heh
 * gordonjcp has had this stuck in his head -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=998P6HEzCdI
<oimon> does there exist a document that explains the various features that the finished unity will have?
<HazRPG> heh, I wonder how one would petrify their terminal xD
<HazRPG> would have to be a pretty scary command
<willy1977> humm.... rm -rf ~/ maybe?
<willy1977> actually the terminal would be fine with that wouldn't it ;)
<daftykins> usually best to carry disclaimers on such commands for the new users that may be present ;)
<willy1977> oh yeah fair point DON'T run that...
<davmor2> gordonjcp: could be worse,  could have "Tank, fly, boss, walk, jam nitty gritty, your listening to the boy from the big bad city, this is jam hot, this jam hot"
<daftykins> e.g. not: "get a free virtual puppy! <insert forkbomb here>"
<daftykins> :D
<popey> oimon: doesn't documentation usually come after development in open source? :)
<oimon> popey: docu yes, but requirements and specification and design comes before coding :P
<oimon> if i saw the proposed features i might be a little less discouraged by the current state of affairs
<gordonjcp> davmor2: funny, I dug that out at the weekend
<gordonjcp> davmor2: mostly to demonstrate how the bassline was nicked from Guns of Brixton ;-)
<gordonjcp> davmor2: and also, "Good Life" uses factory Ensoniq Mirage samples for the lead line and the chord stab is nicked from Nitro Deluxe "Let's Get Brutal"
<Tommeh> Is there a reason why the workspace switcher in unity isn't moveable?
<Tommeh> Unlike all the other applications on the launcher
<Tommeh> I'd like it somewhere more accessible, but apparently I'm not aloud to move it.
<davmor2> gordonjcp: I haven't heard a dance track for a while that didn't nick music from other artists somewhere along the line.   Vanilla Ice ice ice baby is under pressure by queen, Men in black is from a George michael track but he got it from a song call forget me knots from the late 70's iirc etc etc etc
<Compacthack> Morning all
<davmor2> Compacthack: morning
<davmor2> Tommeh: it's the separator for lens and applications as I understand it
<gordonjcp> davmor2: most decent dance music would maybe sample a couple of short hits, and one of the "well-known" drum loops
<gordonjcp> I don't like the current thing of basically taking the instrumental of a whole song and singing the wrong words over it
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://nkhstudio.com/pages/amen_mp4.html :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: nice
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/break2.ogg
<gordonjcp> ^ hand-drawn Amen break
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: hand-drawn? in what?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: Gimp, then converted to an audio file with ARSS
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: arduinosample.ogg and glitchamen.ogg also feature mangled Amen breaks
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/goodlife.ogg <- demonstrating how you can make your own copies dance classics from things you have at home
<daftykins> permit me to be pedantic over the storing of ogg files in an "mp3s" virtual directory
<daftykins> :D
<gordonjcp> yes
<gordonjcp> I did that specifically to a) piss off pedants, and b) snare copyright troll bots into looking for nonexistent copyright violations
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i spotted it, but i'm not too fussed :>
<gordonjcp> I used to also have a directory avi/ with things like saw.mp4 and layercake.avi in it
<daftykins> aww if only your second example was matroska
<daftykins> :>
<gordonjcp> the first being a video of me cutting some bits of 2x1" wood with... a saw
<daftykins> lmao
<gordonjcp> and the second being me using the two pieces of wood to guide my bread knife as I cut a sponge cake absolutely dead level through the middle
<gordonjcp> in order to make... a layer cake
<directhex> my tv plays mkv o_o
<directhex> as long as i mangle the mime type mediatomb emits to say it's mpeg2
<MartijnVdS> wut
<daftykins> anyone remember that 9600x9600 resolution image of the world trade center site as it was covered in debris?
<daftykins> i've ordered a 30x40" print of it from a local company :o
<daftykins> could be fun to stare at on the wall somewhere
<directhex> my tv will not play a mkv file exported as video/x-matroska, but it will play the same file exported as video/mpeg
<daftykins> haha
<directhex> in both cases, with mp4/dts or mp4/ac3 content
<daftykins> how'd you discover that?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the wall of your underground terrorist training facility?
<directhex> daftykins, reading people ranting and raving on the tubes
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: the very same
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: wait, you have to be a conscript to know of it D:
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: remember the first rule of terrorist training club
<daftykins> enlist the IRC'ers? ah yes
 * Tommeh wants his workspace switcher back :(
<daftykins> but it's always there!
<daftykins> ctrl+alt+cursors
<daftykins> :>
<Tommeh> yeah, that's as buggy as hell.
<daftykins> how come?
<Tommeh> compiz dies, the lot
<MartijnVdS> compiz--
<daftykins> nasty, what are you running?
<Tommeh> Natty?
<Tommeh> *Just* upgraded.
<daftykins> that explains it
<daftykins> oh an upgrade too?
<daftykins> ooh-err
<Tommeh> 'the end is night'
<Tommeh> -t
<Tommeh> It's pretty silly how you can move *anything* on the menu, but not the workspace switcher.
<Tommeh> If it was near the top, I'd be happy
<Tommeh> But I have to scroll through everything to get to it.
<gordonjcp> I want the taskbar back
<gordonjcp> and I want alt-f2 to work properly
<gordonjcp> instead of typing the thing I want to run, then having to wait for five seconds while it catches up
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> well, i should head in and prepare today's class
<daftykins> today is the excitement of throwing several netgear and thomson routers at them and telling them to lear how to lock down the wireless...
<daftykins> learn too.
<DJones> daftykins: Would the person who doesn't plug it win?
<daftykins> actually that was part of my earlier teachings :D
<Tommeh> Awesome
<daftykins> i covered all of the security settings, then asked them all what the best was
<daftykins> the one i hadn't covered
<Tommeh> Login screen settings -- select Ubuntu Classic, back to non-Unity
<daftykins> and one of the bright students said "turn it off"
<oimon> Tommeh: until ubuntu 11.10 :(
<daftykins> and i demonstrated it then and there... took an access point, pulled out the mains and put it on the desk ;)
<daftykins> best wireless security you don't even have to buy
<DJones> :)
<oimon> daftykins: how old are the kids you're teaching
<DJones> And what level are they studying at
<daftykins> oimon: 16+
<daftykins> it's an A-level standard of course, at a further education college
<Tommeh> oimon: by that time they will have hopefully made Unity a bit less faffy.
<daftykins> so it's basically an alternative to doing generic A levels
<oimon> haven't met any teenagers who are interested in computers anymore..they use technlogy and nitendo DS etc and the internet, but aren't actually interested in the good stuff
<daftykins> oimon: oh indeed, most of them just go on browsers and waste the day away i'd imagine
<directhex> oimon, we need a new BBC Model B.
<daftykins> but when i helped teach a couple of classes last year, i was horrified to discover nobody had configured a wireless network in the second year group
<directhex> oimon, the spectrum era created a generation of bedroom hackers. that's something we've lost
<daftykins> so i've worked it into a class i'm taking on "networked systems security"
<daftykins> which is a lot more basic than it sounds, but is nonetheless fun enough to get them thinking
<oimon> my nephew reminds me of myself at 13 in many ways, particularly good at maths etc, but is completely disinterested in computers, however i was programming BASIC and allsorts by that age
<oimon> his ICT class fails to excite pupils
<daftykins> i'm also pushing them into playing with Linux at home and got the College i'm at signed up to a vmware education program so they can play with different OSs at home
<oimon> acorn vs spectrum vs commodore battles used to amuse me
<daftykins> admittedly they could just run virtualbox or so, but it's good practice
<Neoti01> SPECTRUM!!!!
<oimon> daftykins: purchase 2gb usb sticks for < fiver each, play with live cd?
<Neoti01> i love SPECTRUMS!!!!!
<Neoti01> 16k of ram ... YEY... bring that back ... he he
<daftykins> oimon: we have tonnes of donated HP pentium4 client PCs on a training network, i've written CDs of ubuntu to have them play with and did that a week or two ago
<daftykins> it's all good
<daftykins> but yeah, i've asked about sourcing cheap bootable flash drives
<daftykins> right i've gotta run
<daftykins> ttfn all o/
<daftykins> IT have had another server die so this week may be interesting :P
<gordonjcp> Neoti01: Jupiter Ace!
<DJones> gordonjcp: Thats a real blast from the past
<gordonjcp> DJones: I have one but the vacuum-formed plastic case crumbled
 * davmor2 now has Tainted love stuck in his head thanks to absolute 80's
<gordonjcp> DJones: there's no custom parts inside, I bet you could build one from scratch trivially easily
<gordonjcp> davmor2: do a megamix of the Gloria Jones version, the Soft Cell version, and the Marilyn Manson version!
<DJones> gordonjcp: I would have thought so, you mentioning that made think about the Oric 1 as well
<davmor2> gordonjcp: Err no!
<hoover> Dragon64 for the win! ;-)
<directhex> 64? rich man
<directhex> oimon, ict is not exciting, ict is secretary training.
<oimon> :(
<gordonjcp> DJones: hm, I'm sure I've got an Oric 1 somewhere too
<oimon> you are right there directhex
<directhex> and when i did ict, i was told off for being functional, and not using clip-art and word art
<hoover> directhex: nah, we started on a ZX81
<hoover> like most
<gordonjcp> with the LM380 amp driving a big speaker so loud it could actually crash the machine
<hoover> we bought the dragons used from a local training centre
<gordonjcp> http://www.jupiter-ace.co.uk/ace_schematic.html
<gordonjcp> well there you go
<oimon> meanwhile i see 14yr olds from other countries joining ubuntu bug squashing teams ..what a disparity
<daubers> I failed my ICT classes \o/
<directhex> i didn't take ict at gcse
<HazRPG> daubers: :o
<directhex> comsci a-level though
<oimon> comp sci degree level \o/
<daubers> apparently building a CMS did not fulfil the "Make a website with at least 4 pages" thingy
<HazRPG> :/
<HazRPG> did you build the CMS yourself? Or did you just use an existing one?
<daubers> Also, I was not supposed to include a 2 page essay on why you shouldn't use excel as a database when they told you to do just that
<daubers> HazRPG: I built it in PHP
<oimon> lol
<HazRPG> daubers: hmm, that's totally unfair then... I passed my ICT by doing my own CMS
<oimon> mind you, learning to do what "they" tell you regardless of whether you think it is dumb and won't work, is an important lesson to learn in life
<daubers> HazRPG: The marking wasn't done by our school :) It was a NVQ thing run from CD by some other school that ours paid to use
<daubers> HazRPG: Also, our IT teachers generally asked us how to do some things... which was a bit backwards really
<HazRPG> heh
<oimon> what a wasted opportunity
<HazRPG> daubers: when I did my ICT it was run by City & Guilds
<HazRPG> not sure if City & Guilds do any exams anymore now... seems to all be NVQ now :S
<daubers> HazRPG: wish ours was. One of the exam questions was Why are business cards x" by y"
<oimon> i did comp studies GCSE 20 years ago.. the curriculum was obsolete since it taught about punch card readers etc
<HazRPG> :P
<daubers> oimon: That's still useful stuff to know if you're being tought FORTRAN :)
<gordonjcp> it would probably be useful to teach Comp Sci students that sort of stuff
<gordonjcp> rather than filling their heads with Java and Haskell nonsense straight off
<shauno> new laptop \o/
<HazRPG> shauno: huzzah!
<DJones> shauno: Same here
<shauno> gonna be strange having a working dvdrw again.  I may need to go out & buy some blanks
<oimon> reading the list of microsoft "patents" they are going after android vendors with: Permit users to easily select text in a document and adjust that selection; Enable display of a webpageâs content before the background image isÂ received..
<directhex> patents are bollocks.
<oimon> of course
<oimon> well those ones are
<DJones> shauno: What did you get
<shauno> a mac.  I swing that way.
<shauno> (15" mbp because I learnt my lesson regarding the integrated gpus)
<HazRPG> shauno: what adventures did it eventually go on before it got to you dude?
<davmor2> oi czajkowski you deaf out,  smile :)
<DJones> Heh, I went from a 10 year old laptop with 512Mb, to a Hewlett Packard i3 with 4Gb & a 17" screen, I can't get used to the speed
<shauno> it got pretty sane once it got to poland.  Nothing resembling it's european tour :)
<shauno> er, asian tour rather
<shauno> 2.2GHz i7 /w 4Gb ram.  aftermarket ram & ssd are first on my hitlist, but waiting until next payday
<HazRPG> shauno: aww, was looking forward to seeing it end up in iceland before it got back to ya :P
<davmor2> DJones: you could always limit the memory with a boot parameter if that helps you out :D
<HazRPG> right
<HazRPG> subway time
<HazRPG> HUNGRY!
<andylock1an> hey guys, know how to print env variables like %JAVA_HOME% on windows?
<HazRPG> bbl :)
<oimon> set ?
<oimon> echo?
<HazRPG> andylock1an: erm... batch file maybe? with an echo
<DJones> davmor2: nah, I'd rather play bubbleshooter at warp 10
<davmor2> DJones: Hahaha!
<davmor2> DJones: you know what you really want to play is Supertux 2
<davmor2> DJones: you could buy a copy of uplink and get really addicted to pretend hacking :D
<DJones> davmor2: I tried playing sauerbrauten on saturday, all I will say is that I died within seconds
<knightwise> Friend who has mac : 'YEEEy , I just found the effects in Photo booth"
<knightwise> my reply : " Those are not the effects"
<DJones> Next job is to install ubuntu on my wifes new laptop as well, tried a live usb last night & worked OTB, so really pleased with both HP & Asus
 * oimon forgot mother's day yesterday. or should i say my one-year-old forgot to buy his mummy a gift
<davmor2> oimon: No you forgot shame on you,  you should be instantly taken off and skinned alive ;)
<oimon> davmor2: i remembered my own mum, but somehow forgot that my wife is a recent mum :(
<oimon> the only cards left are really expensive ones
<oimon> AKA fail tax
<davmor2> oimon: Write it on you calendar to remind you for next year
<directhex> know what i have on my calendar?
<directhex> "buy a snow shovel" is in there, in july
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ponies and kittens?
<popey> :)
<popey> i was discussing that with wifey this weekend
<oimon> one of the best advances in avoiding double bookings was when i purcahsed android phones for me + mrs and shared each other's calendars..simple solution to a common marital problem
<popey> yup, we have shared calendars too
<popey> this was a major selling point for wifey to have a new phone
<directhex> we do the same
<oimon> and shared bank account
<directhex> doesn't need to be android, either. all phone oses do google calendar
<directhex> except maybe wp7
<oimon> directhex: we couldn't afford 2 x iphone contracts if we wanted them :P
<popey> i dont have an iphone contract :p
<popey> (but I do have an iphone)
<davmor2> directhex: but wp7 has the bestest web browser in the universe though right?
<davmor2> bestest means worse right?
<directhex> davmor2, here's my score for wp7: minus one billion out of 10. it's just as good as iphone!
<davmor2> directhex: -1 billion man you're slacking you know there are trillions and quadrillions out there right :D
<bigcalm> Sorting out some receipts. ASDA: G/GANG - any body know what that might be?
<willy1977> bigcalm: green gang
<willy1977> bigcalm: just had it confirmed from commander in chief that it's actually garden gang
<willy1977> the kids healthy eating range
<willy1977> fruit, veg, raisins, etc.
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> Thank you :)
<bigcalm> Now to ponder what it could be at Â£1.12
<bigcalm> Clementines!
<Pendulum> yum
 * DJones eats a yum from Greggs bakery
<DJones> s/yum/yum yum
<directhex> http://greggsadventure.com/
<directhex> i'm now on the "special k diet" - apparently i can drop 2 dress sizes!
 * bigcalm giggles
<popey> haha
 * DJones wonders what dress size directhex currenty is
<MartijnVdS> 3XL
<directhex> DJones, hang on, let me go see which ones fit!
<directhex> Â¬_Â¬
<DJones> directhex: No need to post photos when you find out
<directhex> DJones, but then how will i know if my bum looks big in it?
<DJones> Use a mirror
<directhex> but clearly i need a second opinion. hang on, let me get a close-up shot, in 3d
<DJones> :)
<popey> :O
<directhex> :O
<MartijnVdS> :O'''
<directhex> ok, sorry. 3d video.
 * popey puts on his xray specs
<DJones> I thought that was already on youtube
<popey> s/xray/3d/
<directhex> salad for dinner tonight, too. oh my
<dwatkins> I had pasta salad for lunch.
<popey> I have steak for tea
<directhex> dwatkins, carbs are the enemy! or something...
<popey> I will cook them better than the italian restaurant on saturday
<gord> no, crabs are the enemy. crabs
<directhex> i wuv pasta
<dwatkins> directhex: not my enemy
 * popey wubs crabs
<gord> they are plotting against you. with their pincers
<directhex> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/crabs/
 * popey notes that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StuartLangridge contains no testimonials.......
<popey> *hint*
<directhex> why does sil need testimonials?
<MartijnVdS> because nobody know who he is
<popey> because I suspect he may attend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<DJones> is seveas still on the membership board
<popey> no
<HazRPG> directhex: most people I know find that song annoying :P
<HazRPG> directhex: I prefer the remixed video version, it's the same song... but the video has the guy running around in a market annoying people
<HazRPG> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Crabs+Remix/
<HazRPG> time for the monthly filesystem sort out \o/
<shauno> why do I always chose 'secret questions' that I'll never remember the answer to :/
<dwatkins> because you like a challenge?
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, I always pick random "secret questions" but always choose the same answer
<HazRPG> which is mother's maiden name... but to throw people off, I put her full name in, which isn't short
<shauno> I dislike the entire concept.  don't like talking to the bank because I'm not entirely sure what my mother's maiden name is
 * dwatkins is reminded of an Italian friend with a very long name
<HazRPG> I hate it when sites have a character limit on the answer though, really frustrates me :/
<shauno> I end up using either of two variations of the same name.  I'm never sure which is correct, or which the bank thinks is correct
<HazRPG> so when I go on some sites and try to recover, I find it's chopped off like a big chunk off the end :/
<HazRPG> shauno: heh yeah I know what you mean
<shauno> oh well.  managed to fanangle my way back into my own account :/
<HazRPG> *cringes*
<shauno> tried the 'forgot my password' link, they asked me who my childhood hero was.  So I went back and sat with my little list card trying to remember what I'd done
<dwatkins> I use the name of my first pet.
<HazRPG> just seen an advert for BE internet (my ISP)... and well it shows a netgear router on the bottom... and then slams it out of the way for their rebranded Thompson one :/
<MartijnVdS> Thompson--
<HazRPG> I'm pretty sure Thompson is worse than Netgear
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but thompson allow rebranding
<MartijnVdS> netgear don't, usually
<dwatkins> BT_Home_Hub2--
<dwatkins> We're on our third from BT and it still needs resetting every couple days.
<HazRPG> BT_Home_Hub2--
<HazRPG> Thompson--
<HazRPG> Actiontec--
<shauno> I think my dvr is a thompson.  still haven't figured out how to pull programs off it without a screwdriver
<HazRPG> I have an Actiontec from my old ISP :/
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to buy my own ADSL router, but I would prefer BT provide a working one - it can't be that hard, it only has to dial-up and provide DHCP
<willy1977> apparently... I'm running a EchoLife HG521 from talktalk :/
<oimon> willy1977: i have one of those
<DJones> My Dad has just changed over to BT & got a homehub 2, at least its idiot proof ... in that he managed to set it up himself
<oimon> or maybe the hg520 ..the "picture frame" one
<oimon> wondering what i can get out of talktalk if i renew my contract with them
<dwatkins> DJones: yeah, just wish it didn't fall over so much
<willy1977> oimon: ahhh mines a little cream box
<HazRPG> dwatkins: this is the reason why I'm tempted to get an ADSL2+ PCI card for my server and configure that instead... that way I have a choice over what OS and config I want
<willy1977> and in my current experience the wife keeps complaining about it dropping the wireless... wired it seems bearable...
<DJones> dwatkins: His has been very stable, he's not had to reset it in the month since it arrived
<dwatkins> HazRPG: yeah, I have considered doing something similar.
<dwatkins> DJones: I do wonder if there's something about my home that's causing the issue, but the box has no logs that seem to say what's happening
<dwatkins> all BT have suggestesd is trying to disable wifi devices and re-enable them one at a time, but that's a bit cheeky, tbh
<dwatkins> I suspect the DHCP server is falling over software-wise, but can't prove it
<oimon> willy1977: mine is the hg520b ..i can't see hg521 on their list http://broadband.talktalk.co.uk/help/broadband/supporteddevices
<dwatkins> yeah, it's our wifi that drops, I think cabled devices are ok
<popey> directhex: unity3d is the 3d framework that's based on mono isnt it?
<directhex> popey, yes
<popey> ooo, just played a game written in it
<willy1977> oimon: oh... its http://help.talktalk.co.uk/app/answers/detail/a_id/1649/kw/router/r_id/113152 but it gets reported as echolife (unless huawei is the company echolife the range I guess)
<directhex> popey, on iphone?
<dwatkins> I like the name 'Monkey' - http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz/
<dwatkins> I think it translates your code into various other languages, but I'd be concerned it would do lots of them only mildly well, not brilliantly
<popey> yes directhex
<HazRPG> dwatkins: \o/
<oimon> anyone ever have success with haggling down prices with their ISP? would like to pay less with talktalk...i know virgin will let you haggle
<HazRPG> "monkey, for the code monkeys around the world!"
<popey> oimon: how long have you been with them?
<oimon> 3 yrs
<popey> tell them you're thinking of leaving?
<oimon> but i took on the contract from the previous homeowner too
<popey> directhex: http://www.freeappaday.com/napp.php?id=1024
<dwatkins> I complained to Virgin and got 20 quid a month off
<oimon> popey: works with virgin, i wonder if talktalk just kick you in the nuts and let you go away
<popey> depends how you word it
<popey> "I am thinking of"
<popey> not "I wish to"
<popey> my ex-boss said "I wish to", and virgin said "okay" and promptly disconnected him :)
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Hn1XhyWB0 is unity3d
<oimon> wish i didn't need a phone line at all :(
<popey> can you not get virgin?
<diplo> for BB  ?
<dwatkins> I asked Virgin to disconnect me and they didn't - continued to charge me also
<diplo> oimon, I'm sure I've seen a way around needing to pay for land line now if it's just for DSL
<oimon> dwatkins: similar problem. virgin still owe me money - i will not be a customer of theirs
<oimon> but i don't have to tell talktalk that
<HazRPG> dwatkins: I don't like how money says "Windows Requirements" and "Mac Requirements" but no "Linux Requirement"... yet linux is one of the targets it can be compiled  for
<dwatkins> HazRPG: hmm :-/
<HazRPG> dwatkins: have a look in the store section, it also cost $120 too
<HazRPG> however that is still considerably cheaper than getting VS
<dwatkins> indeed, HazRPG - and comparible to an Apple developer license
<HazRPG> agreed
<oimon> i'd like an ISP that gave low data download capacity and charged peanuts..
<HazRPG> still shocking that there's no linux binary (at the very least) for it though
<directhex> oimon, they can't make money doing that
<directhex> HazRPG, linux binaries are hard.
<dwatkins> bethere apparently have good rates and good rates
<HazRPG> dwatkins: that's who I'm with!
<HazRPG> directhex: how so?
<HazRPG> directhex: I've seen things packaged as a .sh file, and some as a .bin file before...
<dwatkins> HazRPG: oh ok
<directhex> HazRPG, at any point you need to link against libraries, you need to worry about the version of those libraries.
<HazRPG> dwatkins: their supplied router is a thompson, which is pants :/
<directhex> HazRPG, e.g. stuff that won't run anymore because there's no more libstdc++.so.5
<Laney> bundle it all!
<directhex> yeah, bundling the world is an option
<Laney> (cf http://bl-log.blogspot.com/2011/03/banshee-bundle-on-linux-one-file-to-run.html)
<HazRPG> dwatkins: my friend has his settings reset almost monthly, which has pretty much forced him into either getting use to changing his wifi info each month, or stick with WEP
<directhex> 50 meg for banshee binary with bundlemania
<directhex> with most functionality disabled
<dwatkins> HazRPG: eek
<dwatkins> directhex: what's that and do you have a link to more information?
<directhex> dwatkins, see Laney's link
<dwatkins> thanks
<Laney> it's clever, but you'd be better off creting a proper package
<dwatkins> directhex: I thought you were referring to an ISP ;)
<HazRPG> directhex, Laney, heh yeah that's the sort of thing I pretty much meant :)
<gpd> Anyone used Web Tapestry FFTC Broadband - see http://bit.ly/f3il0d ?
<gpd> Advantage over BT seems to be static IP and not BT...
<gpd> s/FFTC/FTTC/
<gpd> meh - BT Infinity it is... I may regret this.
<directhex> gpd, also, it's not BT
<directhex> gpd, interesting url, thanks. /me bookmarks
<gord> not bt is a huge plus
<hamitron> BT are in my good books atm
<gpd> as long as it stays up - i don't really care who it is with... [bishop / actress]
<hamitron> they've rewired my phone
<hamitron> :)
<dwatkins> hamitron: did that resolve a problem?
<hamitron> yes
<directhex> my phone line has been down since thursday
<dwatkins> I had an engineer over who seemed to know what he was doing, fixed a balance problem in the wiring before the master socket, replaced the socket itself with one with a built-in filter and replaced my homehub2, but the problem remained - I have to reset it every 2 days because the wifi just appears to turn off
<shauno> I'm still unclear why people still have phone lines
<dwatkins> mobile reception in the flat I'm in is terrible, shauno
<dwatkins> I'm surrounded by stone buildings
<hamitron> lag on mobile broadband.....
<hamitron> plus no signa;
<gpd> dwatkins: Sure Signal - i got one last week :)
<hamitron> signal
<dwatkins> gpd: yeah, I have been tempted to get one too
<gpd> only vodafone though - but switching now
<oimon> talktalk actually have a page where they tell you that other providers are cheaper :o http://sales.talktalk.co.uk/product/compare/broadband
<gpd> works well - can get it f20 quid on a contract
 * hamitron doesn't know how someone can live with no phone line
<dwatkins> I'd be very interested if 3 did a suresignal equivalent
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I've never bothered hooking up a wired telco since I left home
<directhex> our FTTC cabinet goes live in a couple of months
<shauno> seems silly to have 3 phonebills for 2 people
<directhex> so that webtapestry thing is very tempting
<hamitron> I wouldn't even touch wireless to my phone line, with a barge pole tbh
<hamitron> shauno: but what about games..... :/
<dwatkins> touch, hamitron?
<shauno> hamitron: games?
<hamitron> dwatkins: ethernet all the way
<hamitron> yeh games!
<hamitron> ;)
<dwatkins> hamitron: ah yes, nice when you can do it
<shauno> games seem to work fine on cable
<directhex> gpd, very poor reviews, from a quick google :(
<gpd> is there a way to switch ISPs without being disconnected for '15 days' (computer says no voice)
<gpd> directhex: ok - thanks... i guess BT isn't going to go bust either
<gpd> [at least not in the near future]
<dwatkins> gpd: yeah, get a second phone line or cabled internets
<hamitron> shauno: isn't cable technically a line?
<directhex> gpd, yes.
<DJones> gpd: My Dad has just changed from F2S to BT, the only downtime he had was the time it took him to change routers & configure the new one
<shauno> hamitron: sure, but it's a whole lot more useful than a phoneline
<gpd> cable would be great - but 1) it is VIRGIN, 2) you have to pay 13 for a virgin phone anyway... pointless
<shauno> it has films at the other end, instead of .. BT
<hamitron> shauno: but I wouldn't replace a phone line with mobile internet
<gpd> DJones: xlnt news
<directhex> gpd, it's magic: http://threestore.three.co.uk/broadband/
<hamitron> can't get cable around my area
<shauno> oh I don't replace anything with mobile 'broadband'.  it's handy to have 3mbit when ntl fail.  other than that it's mostly intolerable
<gpd> directhex: are you suggesting mobile broadband instead of 40Mb FTTC?!?
<hamitron> shauno: yeh
<DJones> gpd: Thinking back, when I changed from F2S to Sky, again that had no waiting time
<directhex> gpd, i'm suggesting mobile broadband as a catch-all backup plan for when dsl conmpanies screw you over
<hamitron> catch-all?
<ging> i've upgraded my laptop through atleast 4 or 5 ubuntu releases, is there away to purge some of the old kernal options from grub?
<gpd> directhex: ah - sorry - good point - yes np.
<directhex> gpd, i've heard mixed views of bt infinity too :/
<daubers> Isn't there a router about that lets you use a mobi broadband dongle as a backup connection?
<hamitron> what is wrong with copper?
<gpd> ging: I do it by hand using aptitude - searching for old kernels - but probably a simpler way. computer janitor should do it - but doesn't seem to
<hamitron> :/
<dwatkins> I have unlimited BT, but it doesn't stop me from having to reset the router every 48 hours. I'm starting to think I should put it on a timer so it resets every night.
<hamitron> if we all reduced our expectations of the amount of data to transfer, copper would be fine
<daubers> dwatkins: I'm convinced that all routers run the same base code, and there's a memory leak causing that
<dwatkins> daubers: I have a buffalo router that didn't need resetting for months at a time, and we connected the same phones and laptops to it via wifi :-/
<ging> gpd: this is not how things work, i usually come to this channel with somthing i think is a difficult problem and someone gives me a 1-2 line solution
<dwatkins> unless it's something hoopy like the DHCP serve crashing 24 hours after giving the TV or the PS3 an IP address
<daubers> heh
<ging> this time i come with what i think is a simple problem and i have to do it manually?
<daubers> I keep meanign to get rid of the router and get an ethernet modem, a switch and an access point
<gpd> ging: dont' listen to me - i'm old skool ;)
<daubers> let a little server handle DHCP,DNS and the like
<dwatkins> ging: do you need to remove them?
<hamitron> any Mac boys here use Parallels Desktop?
<oimon> ging, have you ever used an application called Ubuntu tweak
<ging> dwatkins: well yeah because scrowlling through 50 differnt ubuntu kernals in grub is not fun
<dwatkins> hamitron: I use virtualbox because I'm cheap ;)
<ging> oimon: yeah i think i have that installed
<hamitron> dwatkins: :D
<oimon> ging, go to the Package Cleaner section
<gpd> ging: http://tuxtweaks.com/2010/10/remove-old-kernels-in-ubuntu-with-one-command/
<gpd> ^^ one liner... !
<oimon> then choose clean kernels
<hamitron> dwatkins: down to 30 quid on amazon, sort of tempted.... in case I get a Mac
<dwatkins> hamitron: nice, thanks
<hamitron> dwatkins: but I am so cheap i don't ahve a Mac
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> gpd, big problem seems to be contention ratio suckage
<dwatkins> hamitron: if you get one, it'll save you money on wigs in the long run ;)
<hamitron> haha
<gpd> directhex: I'm in the process of ordering BT Infinity 40/9 Mb unlimited... for 25/mo, 18mo ctract.
<hamitron> dwatkins: was thinking of trying MacOS on a normal comp, but decided that is not reaping the main advantages of no hassle with a Mac
<gpd> seems better than 18/mo for O2 giving only 8/1Mb unlimited...
<hamitron> "only"? ;/
<oimon> gpd that include line rental too?
<ging> thanks gpd, oimon
<hamitron> I've been celebrating with my 1200/440
<hamitron> :D
<directhex> gpd, let me know how it goes
<gpd> oimon: no - fraid not - +12 BT phone :(
<oimon> boo
<dwatkins> hamitron: it's got its advantages as a BSD-related OS, but yeah, best to get an actual Mac for many reasons, not just because it's cheeky to run the OS on other hardware ;)
<oimon> gonna phone TT retentions to try and get some money off
<gpd> oimon: was tempted by Virgin - to rid me of that cost -= but they want to charge 13 for their 'phone'... on all their packages.
<hamitron> dwatkins: the cheek part I call an advantage.... kinda like running Linux on the xbox
<oimon> my experience of virgin is that they are thieves YMMV
<directhex> i don't doubt it, but i at least want the option
<directhex> i can't pick virgin.
 * hamitron likes Demon Internet
<oimon> TT i am paying 19.59 (bb + phone) before call charges
<gpd> oimon: what number are you calling BT on for that?
<oimon> huh?
<gpd> oimon: who is TT?
<oimon> talktalk
<hamitron> tatty telecomm
<oimon> or trickle trickle...as their prices have gone up about 40% over the last 3 years
<gpd> oimon: did you pick them over PlusNet?
<hamitron> ;/
 * daubers quite likes plusnet
 * DJones hands oimon a sharp stick to poke talktalk with
<oimon> gpd: i inherited the TT line so rather than pay for a BT reconnection i stuck with them
<daubers> Not had too many issues, and those we have had have been resolved quite quickly
<hamitron> daubers: that the yorkshire broadband one?
<gpd> any company that uses 8pounds/ month - then says in tiny letters (for 1st 3 months - then 200/mo) must die.
<dwatkins> that's quite a hike!
<daubers> hamitron: No idea :)
<oimon> and the ASA for allowing it
<gpd> s/200/20/
<hamitron> daubers: according to the tv adverts, call centers in the UK
<directhex> "You're in a Virgin Media National broadband area" - this is code for "BT Wholesale"
<hamitron> I was tempted, then realised it was hassle to change from something I am already happy with
<daubers> hamitron: Only support people who where better than plus net was the guy at O2 who, when I said their nameserver was broken, asked "Which one?", tested it and agreed with my diagnosis in a 5 minute call :)
<hamitron> :D
<daubers> hamitron: Ah, don't watch that funny box with the people inside it
<hamitron> daubers: faultly phone line has encouraged me into the addictition :(
<daubers> heh :)
<hamitron> addiction also
<hamitron> I am trying to stop, as I realised I was sitting for 3 hours per day watching a load of, errrm, stuff
<hamitron> none the wiser at the end of it
<hamitron> watching someone calling lion's over then hiding in a cage for example
<hamitron> (I reckon I could work out for myself to hide in a cage)
<hamitron> lucky for me they will be turning off the analogue tv signals soon, so that will save me
<hamitron> right, 10 mins before I normally do this... but gonna get tea and cakes
<hamitron> brb :)
<jonny> Anyone know the list of seeds used to make a live cd?
<oimon> got off the phone from TT retentions
<oimon> two months line rental for free and Â£2 off monthly bill for next 12 months..
<oimon> prob about Â£50 over the year, so not bad. i felt bad asking for more than that :S
 * willy1977 needs to start working for himself at least there's only one idiot to blame then...
<willy1977> oimon: is that what you got for phoning up talktalk? that's not so bad?
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> i had to agree to 18month contract
<willy1977> no great shakes I guess...
<oimon> i possibly could have got a free router too, gamblers regret i guess
<willy1977> i transferred to talktalk recently so you would've ended up with a router similar to mine...
<willy1977> assuming they haven't changed in a month/2months
<oimon> quite happy with mine - although my laptop supports wireless N
<oimon> and the router is G only
<oimon> static IP would have been nice :S
<willy1977> pay extra for it don't you ;) i've used dyndns and the router supports it so it's not so bad... but yeah static would be better of course.
<jonny> If any of you are considering changing ISP, these guys look excellent: http://ukfsn.org/
<willy1977> from a brief whizz through they definitely seem worth investigating ;)
<darkwingduck_> hello
<willy1977> darkwingduck_: hello
<darkwingduck_> no craic
<hamitron> willy1977: do talk talk do static ip? when i asked them, they transfered me to their business section (Opal)
<willy1977> it was an option whilst I was signing up...?
<willy1977> but I was too tight...
<hamitron> maybe new then
<hamitron> also, I was taken back by their FUP
<hamitron> atm I have 60Gb download per month, with unlimited upload
<hamitron> Opal was 50Gb combined
<willy1977> :o
<willy1977> for a business account? doesn't sound all that "fair"
<oimon> it seems TT no longer offer static IP
 * oimon has 8 public class C's to play with anyway
<oimon> BBC only allowed downloads of "the killing" on iplayer for about a week :(
<Laney> a week is standard for iplayer
<oimon> Laney: really? that sucks
<oimon> thought it was a month :(
<willy1977> depends on the program
<oimon> apparently some BBC employees have access to an iplayer archive of all programmes in perpetuity
<popey> some non-BBC employees have access to an archive of lots of BBC and non BBC programmes
<oimon> popey: youtube?
<popey> i believe they still archive all FTA freeview stuff directly
<popey> and there was a limited set of users given access, no new signups allowed
<popey> but you can login and grab the direct MPEG2 streams for any program in the last 7 days or so
<oimon> sounds mysterious
<popey> it was a pilot project in parallel to iplayer
<popey> i have a friend who has access
<oimon> nice
<gpd> damn - 12 minutes on hold to O2 to get a MAC and escape to BT Infinity - then they hit you with an offer... balls.
<oimon> seesaw.com have some old programmes for free too
<gord> bt infinity still does traffic shaping, really don't want to live with 12kb/s for anything non http during the peak periods (ie: all weekend. evenings) - put me off getting it
<d3ngar> Hey there
<gpd> which turns out to be a con (i.e. 12 month contract thrown in) but enough of a doubt has been planted in your mind that you say 'i'll call back once Ive thought about it'....
<gpd> oh my days.
<d3ngar> Does anyone know how to forward a local port to an ssh server?
<d3ngar> I think it's ssh -fgNL <localport>:host:<hostport> sshhost
<popey> not without a better description of what you want to achieve, no :)
<d3ngar> But somehow that doesn't work
<popey> i use ssh -LNNN:HOST:NNNN HOST
<popey> dunno what -fgN are
<d3ngar> I want to forward this machines port 5900 to my home computer
<popey> ssh -L5900:localhost:5900 remotehost
<d3ngar> -N prevents the remote shell
<d3ngar> of course 5900 is in use on the remote host
<d3ngar> so remote host should be a different port
<popey> which is fine
<popey> no
<gpd> gord: have you got a link for that BT stuff?
<d3ngar> ??
<d3ngar> How can two VNC servers are on the same port?
<popey> d3ngar: do you want to view your home computer from here, or send your "here" computer to home?
<d3ngar> here to home
<popey> so you want -R, not -L
<d3ngar> Ah, R!
<gord> gpd, its in the terms of services - friend of mine couldn't even play online games during the evenings/weekends because of bt's traffic shaping
<d3ngar> So then it's ssh -RN <localPort>:server:<remotePort> server?
<gpd> gord: can it be worse on FTTC than normal ADSL2+?
<popey> no
<d3ngar> :(
<popey> noor yes
<gord> gpd, they are limiting your speed to a very low speed to stop you using large amounts of bandwidth, it'll still be very low even on fttc
<popey> but it's -NR, not RN
<oimon> could the "screw $currentdistro, i'm switching to Arch" be the best geek t-shirt ever?
<gpd> meh. when's Portal 2 out... massive advert on the floor of Piccadilly station... must be soon... /me googles
<gpd> "In stores April, PreOrder now"... err.. it's 4th today... in my world.
<Laney> still have 25 and a bit days left the
<Laney> n
<gpd> what they mean is 'in stores [some time in] April [if we are lucky]'
 * AlanBell boggles at Bug #745527 
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 745527 in Ubuntu Font Family "Password field shows squares instead of a dot when Ubuntu font is used as a Windows XP system font." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/745527
<Laney> fair enough
<popey> :)
<popey> nice
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Why being an approved loco team doesnt actually matter a jot - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/04/04/why-being-an-approved-loco-team-doesnt-actually-matter-a-jot/
<davmor2> popey: why does the  show up instead of '  on things like the planet feed info above?
<davmor2> popey: is it just a non ascii character or something?
<Laney> it's an &#8217; quote
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<Laney> greetings
<brobostigon> hi Laney
<Laney> alright?
<marxjohnson> If any of you fine IRCers would be so kind to help out with the next episode of the Ubuntu UK podcast, please fill in this 1 minute questionnaire: http://tinyurl.com/uupcfortunes
 * brobostigon screams and shouts in frustration at the top of his voice.
<brobostigon> Laney: not so hot, and you?
<Laney> oh :(
<Laney> i am ok, winding up to leave and go kayaking
<ging> gpd: i'm now running that command you found for me, i read it through it claims it will filter out the currently running kernal and not remove that 1
<ging> it says it's going to free up 2gig of space as well
<ging> how can i have 2 gig of old kernals?
<gpd> ging: dont' blame me if it eats your system - i just googled it... :)
<gpd> i'd be very afraid.
<ging> gpd: i know
<ging> i read it through it had a very nice explanation of how the command is built up and what each bit does, i wish more websites did that
<gpd> ok - linux-headers is 75MB for 2.6.32-29
<brobostigon> Laney: :)
<gpd> removing only that kernel frees up 185Mb total
<gpd> that's doing it by hand in Aptitude
<ging> well it claims to have finnished and my screen hasnt just filled with endless errors and faults or died, so now i shall see if it boots too
<gpd> check grub menu 1st!
<oimon> marxjohnson: i don't understand what that was about but i did it anyway
<marxjohnson> oimon: thanks :-)
<winterweaver> I want to try out ubuntu 64 bit, but the 64 bit install reads ...AMD64... does it matter if I have an core i7 and not an AMD?
<oimon> oimon: P.s. graphical application could be interpreted as application with a GUI, or a graphics manipulation package
<marxjohnson> winterweaver: no
<popey> oimon: do you listen to uupc?
<marxjohnson> AMD64 will work on Intel 64 bit chips
<oimon> yes
 * brobostigon is having difficulty using irssi.
<oimon> although have been saving latest episode for commute tonight
<oimon> popey: i think i understand now - its family fortunes
<oimon> when i see fortunes in a linux context i think !info fortune
<oimon> !info fortune
<oimon> :(
<lubotu3> Package fortune does not exist in maverick
<ging> yay it worked
 * oimon doesn't believe the bot
<popey> no
<popey> AMD64 works on all Intel and AMD capable x86-64 compatible CPUs
<d3ngar> popey: can I ask you for your advise on the port forwarding once more? It seems that it's not working...
<winterweaver> thx marxjohnson
<popey> ps. dont talk about the content of that link pls :)
<d3ngar> I want to forward clients port 5900 to 5999 on the ssh server
<marxjohnson> oh yeah popey etc aren't allowed to see the survey
<DJones> winterweaver: I've just installed the amd64  version on an i3 with no issues
<marxjohnson> so shh
<d3ngar> I do: ssh -R 5900:ssh-server-address:5999 ssh-server-address
<d3ngar> right?
<bigcalm> popey: have you gone for the 30mb connection yet?
<popey> nope
<popey> not inquired
<popey> d3ngar: ports round wrong way surely
<Mez> interesting new feature...
<Mez> The installation of a package which violates the quality standards isn't allowed. This could cause serious problems on your computer. Please contact the person or organisation who provided this package file and include the details beneath.
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> just lintian, isn't it?
<Mez> yeah
<Laney> not sure about that... what did it trigger on?
<directhex> iirc /opt is a trigger
<Mez> but the thing I find amusing - is that the "quality" checks are mainly stuff that can't cause damage...
<Laney> "we've trusted you to upload to the archive, but now will block your package from users"
<Mez> Laney: skype :)
<Laney> hah
<Mez> Laney: Debian at least has a list ofauto-rejects based on lintian for the source stuff..
<Laney> right, at least you get a chance to fix that
<Laney> and it's done in a transparent way
<HazRPG> I can't remember who linked it, but I've filled in the form for the podcast
<marxjohnson> HazRPG: Thanks very much!
<brobostigon> good afternoon HazRPG :)
<AlanBell> HazRPG: it was marxjohnson
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good afternoon :)
<HazRPG> marxjohnson: some of the questions seem random
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<marxjohnson> HazRPG: Don't want to make it too easy for them ;-)
<HazRPG> marxjohnson: what are the questions in the quiz centring around? Is it just general knowledge?
<imexil> Hi, so since being ill last week I decided to upgrade to Natty already. I now wonder what the area is called where the clock and operational indicators show up so I can do a search for "how to add system-monitor to <???>" :)
<marxjohnson> HazRPG: You'll find out when you listen to the show ;-)
<MartijnVdS> imexil: it's the unity panel, and you can't unless you switch back to the classic Gnome panel.
<imexil> MartijnVdS: Thanks and shame...
<MartijnVdS> you don't want to hear my opinion on unity. It's not family-friendly ;)
<gordonjcp> I really wanted to like Unity
<gordonjcp> but it's bloody horrible
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: exactly
<MartijnVdS> Same with Gnome Shell
<gordonjcp> yup
<gordonjcp> I just can't figure out Unity at all
<gordonjcp> and Gnome Shell looks really dated
<gordonjcp> it's like something from the mid-90s
<gordonjcp> well, they both are
 * brobostigon hugs  BeOS and haiku-os
<gordonjcp> unidentifiable little squares with no clue as to function
<gordonjcp> stuff whooshing around the screen, seemingly randomly
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: but you don't NEED to configure things!
<AlanBell> I think the bit that I get the least about Unity is the pinning things you like to the sidebar
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: we know better than you!
<d3ngar> popey: I got the port forwarded correctly, but I still struggle with another ssh problem: the ssh-key
<gordonjcp> I don't get the sidebar at all
<MartijnVdS> also, global menu *shudder*
<gordonjcp> how is it supposed to work?
<AlanBell> so your sidebar ends up as a mixture of stuff that is running and stuff that isn't running
<d3ngar> I have created the key and put it on the server
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I don't like how you have to mouse over each square to see what it is
<d3ngar> in the authorized_keys file in .ssh
<d3ngar> But it's not using it
<MartijnVdS> "Let's be as MacOS as we can, even the bad bits"
<d3ngar> I have checked that the ssh-config is correct
<AlanBell> I have come to an arrangement with it though, I have a terminal running and if I want to launch an application I type "appname &" in the terminal and I use the sidebar for switching between running applications
<MartijnVdS> I just installed XFCE
<MartijnVdS> fixed it fine
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes! it is as if someone went through macos and picked out all the really strange things and did them
<daubers> AlanBell: I've just started using the "search" feature and typing in the application name
<daubers> AlanBell: funnily enough, that's how I use Macs as well these days
<gordonjcp> daubers: is that the alt-f2 box?
<AlanBell> I haven't upgraded my host to Natty, but that is running Maverick Unity, I run Natty in a VM
<daubers> gordonjcp: Don't think it appears on alt+f2. I hit the little ubuntu symbol and type in there
<gordonjcp> I can't get that to work unless I wait about a second between keypresses, and then about five seconds before I hit return
<AlanBell> I fully intend to use the application search thing in Natty
<gordonjcp> daubers: oh, that just makes a big black window with little squares in appear
<AlanBell> it is just too slow in Maverick
<daubers> AlanBell: No shiny compiz love in the maverick one
<shauno> that kinda ruins having a searchbox for me :(  that needs a hotkey asap
<AlanBell> yeah, I have compiz in a VM though
<gordonjcp> I'm probably going to remove Ubuntu from dual-boot here, it's just not usable any more
<AlanBell> it is getting close to the time to upgrade the host to Natty
<gordonjcp> I don't know what to install on PCs for non-techy people
<gordonjcp> maybe it's time to look at Windows again, I hear it's improved since 3.11
<daubers> gordonjcp: Try kubuntu instead. KDE 4 is quite shiny these dats
<daubers> s/dats/days
<marxjohnson> +1 for kubuntu
<MartijnVdS> has KDE4 stopped crashing yet? :)
<daubers> I have a debian install running kde, it's actually quite nice once you get past the "It's not gnome-yness"
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: check out the next Ubuntu?
<Azelphur> it's quite shiny too
<gordonjcp> daubers: I've never liked KDE
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: "next" after Natty?
<Azelphur> nope, natty
<Azelphur> has a whole new look :p
<daubers> gordonjcp: Tried it recently?
<daubers> gordonjcp: There's always xubuntu :) though XFCE takes a little more getting used too
<gordonjcp> daubers: not since last night, when it once again blew away my bootloader
<daubers> gordonjcp: KDE did that?
 * daubers boggles
<gordonjcp> daubers: no, Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> I updated ubuntu, it reinstalled grub2 and killed my machine
<daubers> Oh.... thats odd
<gordonjcp> "YOU GET UBUNTU OR YOU GET NOTHING!"
<daubers> gordonjcp: Mines playing nice with Win7 and debian
<gordonjcp> for which I'm going to punch Mark Shuttleworth the next time he crosses my path
<gordonjcp> daubers: anyway, it's just about usable in Classic mode except there's no volume control
<gordonjcp> and the 1990s website colour scheme
<daubers> gordonjcp: A gauntlet I'll lay down :) Put up with Unity for a week or two (once it's released) and see how you get on
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I had to shout at my PC after using it for a day
<gordonjcp> daubers: I can't use Unity at all
<daubers> gordonjcp: I did that with Win 7 a little while ago and had to revise _some_ of my dislikes
<gordonjcp> daubers: no, really
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Thats bad for the disks
<MartijnVdS> win7 isn't that bad actually
<gordonjcp> I can't use Unity for more than about 15 minutes
<daubers> gordonjcp: What stops you using it?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: what? shouting?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Yup
<gordonjcp> daubers: the big ugly drop shadow
<gordonjcp> it's instant eyestrain
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I thought that was kicking :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Thats worse....
<gordonjcp> daubers: and the lack of a taskbar
<brobostigon> i am happy enough with gnome-shell, it mkes huge improvements for me, and solves a few issues i had previously.
<gordonjcp> daubers: and the lack of a working alt-f2 run box
<daubers> gordonjcp: The dropshadow I hadn't noticed. The taskbar going made me fumble for a couple of days, but you get used to it being merged in the bar on the left
<gordonjcp> daubers: I can't get used to the taskbar at all
<gordonjcp> there's no way of telling what apps are what
<daubers> gordonjcp: The alt+f2 thing is a major annoyance :( But really the only one I have at the moment
<daubers> gordonjcp: You prefer words over icons?
<gordonjcp> I can't see icons
<daubers> (not a criticism, a question)
<gordonjcp> they're all just identical little squares
<gordonjcp> it's a kind of dyslexia thing
<gordonjcp> well, not *quite* identical
<daubers> gordonjcp: Do you get the same issue with IOS/Androidy/Touchy type UI's?
<gordonjcp> yup
<gordonjcp> I can get around android because everything has a text label
<daubers> Hmmm....
<gordonjcp> iphones I can't use without help
<daubers> gordonjcp: I'd prod gord about getting mouseover texts or somesuch :)
<gordonjcp> which is odd because things like circuit diagrams are no bother at all
<gordonjcp> it's got mouseover text
<daubers> gordonjcp: Make sure you file a bug and shout about to the ayatana and accessibility peeps
<gordonjcp> it just sucks more than having a normal taksbar
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I bet Chinese would be.. Chinese to you then ;)
<gordonjcp> *taskbar
<gord> eh? what? what have i done now? it wasn't me? go away :(
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I can read some JApanese
<Pendulum> daubers: for accessibility we're pretty much telling people to use Classic Gnome, at least for Natty
<gordonjcp> I can't type today though
<daubers> gordonjcp: Apparently you've already done that...
<daubers> Pendulum: :( Suppose that would happen with a non-LTS at some point
<gord> daubers, what alt-f2 thing?
<Pendulum> (not sure what we're doing after that because I'm hearing that Oneiric will only have Unity 3D and Unity2D and 2D is probably currently less accessible than 3D)
<daubers> gord: No, mouse overy text
<daubers> gord: Though fixing alt+f2 would be nice :)
<gordonjcp> daubers: it's got mouse-over text, I just prefer having text visible instead of icons
<daubers> gord: ^ would be nice if possible too...
<gord> Pendulum, don't worry O's accessibility will kick-ass - desktop won't allow for us to ship with no accessible UI on the disk
<gordonjcp> but I'd actually pay someone to find a way to remove that bloody awful migraine-inducing drop shadow
<gord> daubers, why do you want mouse overlay text?
<gord> daubers, fixing alt-f2? what?
<daubers> gord: Some sort of non-icony way of using the dock thing, apparently some people have issues identifying icons apart
<gord> you get a label when you mouse over the different dock items
<Pendulum> gord: you probably don't want to get me started on what I think about the fact that they're willing to ship Unity as the default (yes, I know classic gnome is also installed, but you have to know how to get to it if you're not installing from an accessibility profile) without it being accessible.
<gordonjcp> gord: yeah, but that means I have to keep mousing over the dock to find out what's what
<Pendulum> (in fact, I can't be bothered to do that rant now because my hands are in bad shape and I'm not going to make them worse just to rant)
<gord> gordonjcp, the alternative is to have all the labels shown no?
<gordonjcp> gord: yes, ideally in some sort of strip along the bottom
<gordonjcp> gord: even better if there's one for each open window
<gord> gordonjcp, your insane ;)
<AlanBell> it would have been easier if accessibility had been designed in from the start
<Pendulum> AlanBell: that's always true
<gord> accessibility was designed in from the start
<daubers> just not wired up?
<gordonjcp> gord: it's not very accessible for people who aren't good at telling one little square apart from another little near-identical square
<gord> but y'know what, accessibility is *hard* - it takes a lot of effort - i don't think a single person on the unity team didn't touch accessibility at some point not all the accessibility stuff is finished yet and that's bad, but its still a huge focus for us
<Pendulum> gord: erm, no it wasn't. there's no a11y for Maverick Unity and they had to write the framework afterwards for Natty unity
<Pendulum> gord: I know it's been worked on a lot and I know that the Unity team is generally committed to it
<gordonjcp> anyway, if someone can provide a good method of removing those drop shadows from the windows in Unity, I'll have another crack at it
<Pendulum> my complaints are a lot less with the unity team and a lot more with TPTB for not actually thinking about the time/people/money commitment it was going to realisticly take
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: it's software. Welcome to the real world.
<brobostigon> TPTB?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the powers that be
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, ok. :)
<daubers> Pendulum: They've done spectacularly well considering the time scale given. It is at least relativey stable and useable (once you're used to it)
<MartijnVdS> gvim windows still disappear randomly
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I did say relativley :)
<daubers> also, gvim's for wimps!
<daubers> :p
<AlanBell> daubers: tried using unity with orca?
<daubers> AlanBell: Nope
<AlanBell> it is a lot better than maverick unity, and a lot better than it was earlier in the cycle
<daubers> AlanBell: However, I've never really used Orca. Also have to admit that I sit in debian more often recently (but thats more because I have debian stable and am using that to learn the Kernel)
<AlanBell> gord: are you supposed to be able to hold alt+click drag windows from anywhere still?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_CDLBTJD4M wow
<gord> AlanBell, yup. does it not work for you? make sure to do a unity --reset to restore the default compiz keybindings
<popey> i crashed compiz again today
 * popey tries to re-do the crash
<MartijnVdS> Starting any BitKeeper GUI app at work crashes compiz
<popey> yup
<MartijnVdS> you use bk as well?
<popey> no
<AlanBell> gord: ok, probably because I am running it in a vm
<kvarley> Bit off topic here but is anybody good with blender?
<kvarley> Can't seem to make a python export script work
<exobuzz> get your joggler ubuntu based os' here http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ (updated 04/04/2011)
<ging> yay
<ging> been looking for 1
<Darael> Got an interesting one here: Latest kernel refuses to acknowledge my wifi card's existence - it doesn't even appear in lspci.  Reverting to 2.6.35-27, it works fine.
<jacobw> What wireless card have you got?
<Darael> jacobw: Thanks, but after a reboot into the older one and back, it's working again.
<jacobw> Darael: stange :s perhaps the old kernel reinstated the module to being loaded by default
<ivanka> hello czajkowski
<ivanka> hello everyone else
<AlanBell> hello ivanka-train
<jacobw> o/
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: hello
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: I got mpt to tweet a page I did with the new ubuntu logos and web colours - wondered if people might like to retweet?
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-logo-and-circle-of-friends/
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: it seems nobody really likes going through the folder structure to find what they need so I thought I should surface them a little better
<matti> LOL ivanka-train ;]
<matti> Nice nick ;]
<ivanka-train> matti: well, if I stop responding, you have been warned!
<ivanka-train> matti: you just never know when the signal will die
<matti> ;p
<matti> Watch out for tunnels ;]
<ivanka-train> matti: now do me a favour and have a look at the link I posted up there and tell me if it needs more stuff
<ivanka-train> matti: please :-)
<matti> ivanka-train: Sure.
<AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ubuntu_logo_black-orange-300x67.jpg fuzzy jpg makes me sad
<AlanBell> no alpha channel and lossy compression
<AlanBell> so they only work on white ivanka-train
<matti> Yeah.
<matti> ivanka-train: All of them are great.
<matti> ivanka-train: But we need lossless PNG with alpha channel too.
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: is it fuzzy?
<matti> ivanka-train: Or something crazy like that.
<matti> ivanka-train: I see it blurry too.
 * matti is using LCD high with resolution.
<matti> sRGB colour palette.
<ivanka-train> matti: AlanBell: bugger - we have them in all formats: jpg, svg and png - will put them all up tomorrow - can't do it from here
<matti> ivanka-train: No worries ;]
<AlanBell> ivanka-train: and the colours are all different and all not #dd4814 :(
<AlanBell> lossy compression is fuzzy
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: matti: they all sit in here: http://design.canonical.com/brand
<matti> Is Census also sending you guys nagging post even despite you have completed it on-line?
<matti> I've got second letter today.
<ivanka-train> but nobody seems to like to go through and pull them out
<matti> ivanka-train: You have to be the heroine who does it, then ;]
<matti> GO ivanka GO
<ivanka-train> matti: I haven't been nagged by them
<ivanka-train> matti: plently of other people, but not them
 * AlanBell is using Ubuntu and a regular LCD
<ivanka-train> :-)
<matti> AlanBell: Is it a regular Ubuntu too? :P
<matti> :>
<shauno> iirc the assets zip has png & svg.
<ivanka-train> matti: I can do this. I can!
<matti> ivanka-train: Yes YOU CAN! *fanfares*
<AlanBell> great ivanka-train, it is good to have them outside of the archive files, but jpg is really only good for photos and stuff where it can hide the compression errors
<ivanka-train> matti hehe
<AlanBell> .png is awesome for getting colours right and having a full alpha channel
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: yes. ok. Will fix!
<AlanBell> so you could have alpha blended anti aliasing that looks awesome on any background
<shauno> png tends to do better at graphics, with hard edges & such.  jpeg for photos
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: matti: I also hope to one day do a google image search for ubuntu logo and see at least one new circle of friends
<AlanBell> better than the one with bottoms!
<matti> [ Voice of James Earl Jones ]: In the land, where nobody cares about what to put on the web site... ivanka, a brave heroine is about to face the chellenge and boldly go where no web designer has gone before...
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: indeed!
<ivanka-train> matti: hehe
<ivanka-train> shauno, AlanBell: I hear ya.
<matti> ivanka-train: I am sorry. I am in silly mood mode ;]
<ivanka-train> matti: I will be silly soon - I just want to get home!
 * ivanka-train cries into her todo list
<matti> ivanka-train: I guess, crying was on the list? ;p
<ivanka-train> matti: no. procrastinating!
<matti> Hahaha
<matti> ivanka-train += 1
<matti> ivanka-train: For you ;) http://deadbeef.info/tmp/15.jpg
<ivanka-train> matti: very good.
<matti> Again, sorry.
 * matti puts the blame on his silly mood.
<matti> ;]
<ivanka-train> matti: I like it. I want it on a mug
<matti> I had so much boolean and predicate logic combined with relation theory to do for university.
<matti> That silly mode is a way to escape from reality ;p
<matti> Otherwise I will end up like in the PI movie.
<matti> ;]
<Myrtti> aw, I've got salmiakki in my hair now :-(
<Myrtti> sticky boiled candy ftl :-C
<matti> Ouch.
<matti> Myrtti: Go bold.
<matti> ;]
<matti> Myrtti: 5 mm cut and you'll be next J.I.Jane.
<matti> ivanka-train: I will see what I can do about the mug business ;]
<Myrtti> I was thinking of that earlier when we were mentally preparing for mums chemo, but her medication seems to be a hair-saving one so looks like I don't need to do it after all
<ivanka-train> matti: it's my birthday in september :-)
<matti> Myrtti: Aha.
<matti> ivanka-train: I see... Dully noted ;]
<ivanka-train> matti: AlanBell: train arriving. byeeeee
 * ivanka-train waves
<matti> Byeee...
<matti> ;]
<Welshy-Rob> Hello. i have tried to open a folder in my home dir and the file browser just closes, i have tried to cd into it but apparently there is no such file, but it shows up when i ls -a ? can anyone help?
<slipstream> does the filename begin with a "."?
<Welshy-Rob> nope
<Welshy-Rob> the dir im trying to get is /home/rob/Fb upload
<slipstream> the space in the name might be causing trouble for cd
<Welshy-Rob> ah okay
<slipstream> try      cd /home/rob/Fb\ uploads
<Welshy-Rob> slipstream, thanks :) it works now i just deleted the space haha
<Welshy-Rob> slipstream, it still wont open in file browser though?
<jacobw> a blank in a directory name shouldn't crash nautilus
<Welshy-Rob> my thoughts exactly
<gord> heh, phoronix is confused at why we recommend 32bit over 64 bit because there are open source versions of flash that work just fine on 64bit. made me giggle
<slipstream> Hi, I've got a really annoying error. Whenever I log in to ubuntu the whole interface freezes, the mouse still moves but nothing happens, sometimes the panels and desltop load but are unresponsive, sometimes not. Everything works fine if I log in under safe mode. All users are affected. I've removed and reinstalled xorg and removed all the programs I can think of which were set to run at login but no effect. Any idea where to look next?
<jacobw> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<jacobw> sorry, i was going to suggest welshy-rob pasted the output of `ls -la` but he's gone now
<jacobw> i wasn't aware that flash was the reason we recommended 32 bit over 64 bit :|
<ali1234> it isn't and we don't?
<jacobw> i thought it was that 64 bit often isn't any faster
<jacobw> yeah, i know that isn't the reason
<directhex> t'is. flash and other random binary-only stuff.
<slipstream> 64 bit is only faster if you're doing lots of video editing, or image editing or stuff like that
<directhex> 64-bit is faster if you're doing anything computationally expensive, which benefits from the much larger number of general-purpose registers
<ali1234> another way of looking at it is 32 bit is only the same as 64 bit if you only use your computer for twitter and facebook
<shauno> are the flossy flash versions anywhere near functional enough to be relevant yet?
<ali1234> no
<slipstream> flossy flash?
<shauno> I think it sounds more fun than gnash :)
<jacobw> free flash seems like a bit of waste of time with html5 etc
<directhex> jacobw, yeah, good thing every single .swf file on the planet was magically turned into a webm video file
<shauno> I think it's a bit like wine.  encourage bad things to keep existing because it's less hassle than alternatives
<ali1234> adobe should just make a damn video player plugin and be done with it
<ali1234> there is no other use for flash that anyone cares about
<directhex> companies like to value-add by doing their own widgets & stuff
<jacobw> people don't want to use every .swf file on the planet, as long as youtube and others use html5 then the issue would be resolved as far as i understand
<directhex> otherwise how to they differentiate?
<ali1234> youtube doesn't use html5 is any useful way
<directhex> youtube helps showcase how sucky html5 ios
<ali1234> only about 3 videos on the whole site are html5 enabled
<ali1234> not really, it's almost impossible to even find any html5
<directhex> no fullscreen, generally clunkier behaviour, missing videos, and more cpu use than adobe flash
<directhex> ali1234, anything with ads is forced to go through flash
<ali1234> yes i know
<directhex> ali1234, you need ad-free videos for html5
<ali1234> which is about 99.99999% of all videos on youtube
<ali1234> oh yeah, "more cpu than adobe flash" is not true
<ali1234> maybe it's true on some test
<ali1234> but it's not true on my machine
<shauno> flash doesn't seem to lean on the gpu too much on mine, so native video always wins
<ali1234> it's probably true on windows where there is hw video decoding support
<slipstream> if im troubleshooting something which log files do I need to look at, I've tried .xsession-errors and that looks fine, but things still aint runnning right
<ali1234> ifconfig
<ali1234> oops :)
<directhex> slipstream, a gui app?
<slipstream> directhex, nah the whole gui, xorg is hanging a couple of seconds after login
<slipstream> i can still switch to the other ttys though
<directhex> anything in xorg.0.log?
<slipstream> wheres that one?
<slipstream> wait found it...
<slipstream> directhex, I'll just recreate the error and then see if anything turns up in it. I'll be back
<ali1234> so i'm looking into this resize gripper stuff
<slipstream> directhex, the last line of the xorg.0.log for that session was [  2662.896]  ddxSigGiveUp: Closing log
<ali1234> looks to me like canonical backported the whole feature from gtk3 - not just the default setting
<slipstream> which sounds bad...
<ali1234> so now any gtk2 app that doesn't want to show a resize gripper needs to have an ubuntu specific patch, since gtk2 elsewhere won't have any idea what a resize gripper even is
<ali1234> of course there is now way to disable it globally without recompiling gtk2/3
<gord> it was developed for gtk3 and backported yes
<ali1234> yeah
<slipstream> anyone got any ideas why the xorg.0.log might contain this repeated 10 times before it hangs? http://pastebin.com/w2J8LkMf
<ali1234> the problem is there is no way for eg firefox upstream to fix the problem where the gripper overwrites the UI
<ali1234> assuming firefox uses gtk2
<ali1234> because standard gtk2 doesn't have this backported stuff
<gord> firefox basically emulates gtk, imports styling from it
<ali1234> so firefox and a million other apps are going to need a patch that says "gtk_window_set_has_resize_grip(window, false);"
<ali1234> forever
<gord> i wouldn't say a million other app's
<ali1234> pretty much every app that uses gtk2
<gord> what i am suggesting is that most apps don't need to do that
<ali1234> and doesn't have a big empty space in the bottom right
<ali1234> i'm actually surprised you didn't move it to the top left of the window too :)
<AlanBell> ali1234: what issue is this?
<ali1234> the resize gripper
<AlanBell> I can't see what is wrong with it
<AlanBell> it seems to work
<ali1234> what's wrong with it is you can't get rid of it
<AlanBell> and you can grab the shadow outside the window
<ali1234> and it draws over the window contents
<ali1234> i don't use the default theme
<ali1234> i use one with sensible sized window borders and proper scrollbars
<jacobw> oops
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<ali1234> gtk sure takes a long time to build
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<AlanBell> epic netsplits
<czajkowski> AlanBell: whay time are you going tomorrow at
<speedxcore> can you use ubuntu one with linux mint or debian?
<exobuzz> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10271/is-running-ubuntu-one-on-debian-possible
<ali1234> that stuff is quite old
<niknak_> does anybody know of any easy way to enable ctrl-alt-bspace to kill x in natty?
<ali1234> !dontzap
<lubotu3> To re-enable the Ctrl-Alt-Backspace combination that restarts your X server see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/DontZap
<ali1234> dunno if works in natty, i assume it does though?
<exobuzz> as for linux mint, linux mint 10 is just maverick, so you should just be able to install/run it
<exobuzz> (regarding to running ubuntu one)
<ali1234> apparently the UO packages are in debian experimental now
<ali1234> some of them anyway, dunno if it is enough to actually use it
<ali1234> does anyone know how i'd add a gconf setting for the gripper thing?
<niknak_> ah dontzap, now i remember. having a few crashy/freezy problems
<ali1234> looks like it should be very very easy to add a setting that disables it on new windows
<shauno> man it's quiet tonight
<Frankiewizard> hello out there everyone in ubuntu land
<Frankiewizard> waiting for the new 11.04
<Frankiewizard> well thats it really
<Frankiewizard> good night then
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-05
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Natty In The Final Stretch: A Retrospective - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/05/natty-in-the-final-stretch-a-retrospective/
<HazRPG> \o
<Severian> Howdy.  In the last show, I think you were confused about the name of the distro you were talking about.  Did you just not want to say oneiric?
<HazRPG> might just be because there is a narwals song form weebl stuff lol
<HazRPG> notice how omgubuntu have the narwals narwals swimming through the ocean on their home page
<Severian> No, my mistake.  11.04 is Natty.  They were right.
<HazRPG> Severian: hehe, you were thinking a release ahead Oneiric Ocelot :P
<Severian> I was.  I like that Oneiric name.
<HazRPG> Ocelot's look cute too!
<Severian> I am getting more concerned that the Natty release may fail big.
<HazRPG> I know what you mean
<HazRPG> the next one Oneiric Ocelot has already been confirmed by Shuttleworth that its not going to contain gnome-classic on it too :(
<Severian> That seems like it is designed to keep Ubuntu off a lot of computers.  There are a lot of machines that can't handle 3D.  Unity may be usable by then, so I am not panicking yet.
<Severian> Unity looks nice now.  But, I don't consider something that crashes multiple times per day usable for the average person.
<HazRPG> agreed
<HazRPG> Mmm... coffee and cheese sandwiches, breakfast meal for kings right :P
<MartijnVdS> morning
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: morning dude
<MartijnVdS> Dentist time.. *urgh*
<HazRPG> :(
<MartijnVdS> just a check-up, but still
<ivanka> matti: AlanBell: morning
<ivanka> matti: AlanBell: better? http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-logo-and-circle-of-friends/
<czajkowski> morning
<ivanka> czajkowski: morning :-)
<HazRPG> morning guys \o
<czajkowski> ivanka: you're on here very early
<ivanka> czajkowski: fancy retweeting my logo thing?
<ivanka> czajkowski: lots to do :-)
<czajkowski> can do
<czajkowski> ahh I remember iain gave out over my twiiter pic as I was using the old one
<czajkowski> http://twibbon.com/Search?searchQuery=ubuntu
<czajkowski> we need to upload the new one there
<ivanka> czajkowski: can anyone do that?
<ivanka> what needs to be done?
<czajkowski> ivanka: aye anyone can see my twitter pic twitter.com/czajkowski I've the twibbon ubuntu circle of friends on there, if the new one is uploaded I can change mine
<czajkowski> ivanka: tweet done
 * popey does as ivanka asks an retweets her :p
<czajkowski> ivanka: if you want any more done just hollar
<ivanka> thank you popey :-)
<ivanka> thank you czajkowski
<czajkowski> really dislike it when folks pick on the oss/foss rants.
<czajkowski> ivanka: no bother
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> ivanka: whooooo
<czajkowski> @D
<ivanka> czajkowski: what we whoooo-ing?
 * ivanka lost the thread
<czajkowski> ivanka: I now have the new logo on my twitter pic
<ivanka> czajkowski: yay!!!!
<xwx> ohï¼
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> MooDoo: o/
<MooDoo> :)
<ivanka> czajkowski: you have cleverly managed to have both :-)
<czajkowski> I jnow...
<czajkowski> trying to fix that now
<czajkowski> cant find that pic so need to upload a new pic
<ivanka> czajkowski: oh no! all this work before 8am - I opened a can of worms!
<czajkowski> done
<czajkowski> new pic added and new twibbon
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/04/04/why-being-an-approved-loco-team-doesnt-actually-matter-a-jot/  some comments and thoughts have been left
<czajkowski> always shocked when people read the blog
<MooDoo> czajkowski: why?
<czajkowski> my blog posts tend to not be exciting more references for myself tbh
<MooDoo> czajkowski: people read them becase they are interesting and inciteful
<directhex> blarg
<MooDoo> czajkowski: that and your famous now ;) lol
<czajkowski> famous ?
<daubers> How come I always end up playing around with partitions at 8am :(
<czajkowski> angry birds on the ipad is addictive
<MooDoo> czajkowski: rio?~
<MooDoo> the new angry birds rio rocks
<czajkowski> rio?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah it's a new angry birds
<czajkowski> no the angry birds HD on ipad2
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ah!  yes that's brill too....
 * MooDoo plays AB on his android, looses hours.
 * daubers hopes his package arrives today
<daubers> Urgh... this USB stick is getting slow :(
<HazRPG> hmm, wouldn't it be random if someone interfaced facebook with irc
 * MooDoo closed down his FB account for a month, and to be honest isn't missing it.
<HazRPG> MooDoo: not an awful lot goes on in facebook in all honesty
<HazRPG> mainly just a drama fest.
<MooDoo> HazRPG: i know, i was just uding it too much
<HazRPG> uding?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: typo
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> I barely use mine in all fairness - people think I use it a lot because I constantly have youtube streams on it, but that's just because I set youtube to send in links whenever I click "like" on a video
<HazRPG> so I pick videos I think others might want to see and click like on them
<HazRPG> how do I upgrade the kernel stuff with command line?
<HazRPG> typing in sudo apt-get upgrade doesn't seem to do it, it just lists that they're there
<MooDoo> apt-get dist-upgrade?
 * MooDoo isn't thinking right this morning, so ignore that if it doesn't work lol
<directhex> upgrade does not install new unseen packages.
<directhex> dist-upgrade does.
<HazRPG> I always thought dist-upgrade was from going between release to release (e.g. 10.10 -> 11.04)
<MooDoo> isn't that upgrade-manager?
<MooDoo> update manager even
<directhex> HazRPG, well, it does that too
<directhex> HazRPG, but any case where upgrading a package on your system would involve installing a new package or removing an old one, "upgrade" will skip
<HazRPG> ah ok
<HazRPG> (Y)
 * daubers head desks
<MooDoo> :)
<daubers> I've just seen someone use a URL shortening service to make a URL longer....
<MooDoo> lol
<daubers> http://bit.ly/the_oatmeal_com
<hoover> mornin all
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning folks
<MooDoo> AlanBell: DJones morning
<DJones> Hi MooDoo
<directhex> broad bands!
<MooDoo> directhex: wide elastic bands ? ;)
<AlanBell> ivanka-train: o/
<AlanBell> ivanka-train: the top two are not #dd4814 but overall much more suitable for web use
<Compacthack> Morning all
<HazRPG> :o!
<HazRPG> http://store.neurosky.com/products/myndplay
<HazRPG> its a media player that alters things as and when your thinking them!
<ivanka-train> AlanBell: I noticed the colour discrepancy, was going to pick up with Marcus this morning
<gord> i have so many fans on this damn computer it sometimes feels like i'm in the crystal maze dome
<daubers> CAN YOU START THE FANS.. PLEASE!
<daubers> What happened to the Crystal Maze?
<HazRPG> daubers: \o/
<HazRPG> daubers: people became stupider?
<HazRPG> daubers: reality TV took over sadly :(
<daubers> HazRPG: thought that was what happened to the Krypton Factor?
<gord> ran out of crystals :(
<MooDoo> gord: dylithium?
<wintellect> Mornin peeps
<daubers> gord: But did you get enough gold and silver things to win a holiday in Dartmoor?
<directhex> gord, use quieter fans?
<gord> directhex, these are quiet fans :) its the air moving sound not the fan sound
<gord> just that i move quite a lot of air
<popey> morning
<popey> hello Paul2
<Paul2> hello popey
<Paul2> why is this in irssi autojoin, I definately saved my config more recently than I was in here
<DJones> daubers: Indiana Jones got to the end of the Crystal maze and found the crystal skull
<daubers> DJones: Thought they where aliens
<DJones> daubers: Harrison Ford......
<oimon> i almost walked out of the cinema at the end of crystal skull
<oimon> in disgust. one of the last films i watched at the cinema
 * MooDoo walked out on the exorcist once
<oimon> not surprised
<oimon> when you don't go to the cinema often, you notice how much has changed. suddenly you have to sit through 20 mins of adverts (not even trailers) - can't be bothered with that, i'll wait for the dvd - then they start putting ads on dvds!
<directhex> oimon, you don't remember the trailers at the start of videotapes?
<oimon> directhex: they were trailers for films, and were quite fun if i correctly recall. now they are ads for chocolates and perfume
<diplo> that's why the first thing I do when I buy my kids DVD's is to rip them to film only
<diplo> And either reburn them or stick on my media centre
<oimon> not to mention the "if you torrent this film then you won't be forced to watch this piracy advert" advert
<diplo> Some of my kids films have got 10+ mins of trailers
<oimon> diplo: time consuming though to rip and convert, i guess?
<diplo> nah, as soon as i get home rip off the selophane and chuck in pc, 20 mins later or so it's done
<oimon> wow
<diplo> Taken a while to go through what I already had, just got to be on the ball when you first get it
<diplo> need more disc space now though :)
<oimon> how do you rip film only?
<oimon> special app?
<diplo> Handbrake or windows apps if i can't get to rip under linux
<diplo> Did write a bash script to go through lot's of iso's
<diplo> sorta worked ok
<diplo> So basically ripped 20-30 dvd's and it basically looped through and ripped them to mkv's
<MooDoo> diplo: dvdshrink?
<oimon> is mkv the best futureproof format?
<AlanBell> diplo: quite agree, it is crazy the non-skippable stuff on kids films
<diplo> yeah some times, or DVDFab
<diplo> Well mkv allows chapters oimon
<diplo> So you can skip etc
<diplo> Where as mp4 doesn't afaik
<oimon> i have some digital video footage of my sisters kids when they were babies, i was thinking about archiving them properly
<TheAshMan> Is there a way to shorten the path when in a terminal window? so instead of me@mycomp:~/Some/Really/Long/Path/Here/Taking/Up/Lots/Of/Screen/Real/Estate$, it shows me@mycomp:~/Something$
<directhex> mp4 has a very high compatibility, so if you want your files to work everywhere, use that
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: there is.
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: let me find it
<popey> \o/ just ordered two hdmi cables from amazon. Â£1.45 each
<oimon> "Just under a half of iPhone users earn less than Â£20,000 a year,  compared with 38 per cent who own a BlackBerry and 27 per cent of  Android users."
<TheAshMan> MartijnVdS, That would be great! Thanks
<diplo> yeah i agree directhex, mp4 works on PS3 where as mkv doesn't
<popey> they have some that are 34p + 99p P&P
<directhex> oimon, [cite]?
<MartijnVdS> TheAshMan: check for PROMPT_DIRTRIM in the bash manual ("man bash")
<TheAshMan> Awesome, cheers
<oimon> directhex: a study for digital banking provider Intelligent Environments [lots of hits on google news, and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1373055/Why-iPhone-users-look-rich-usually-poor.html ]
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<AlanBell> oimon: http://flowingdata.com/2010/08/11/iphone-users-are-more-promiscuous/
<oimon> hehe
<DJones> Heh, http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Prototype.aspx Due for release in June 2010, I doubt they're going to make June 2011 if the prototypes are anything to go by
<directhex> why?
<DJones> It still looks to be a fair way from being complete
<directhex> seems a silly product
<oimon> "Our new Commodore operating system, will be a unique Commodore and AMIGA  centric Linux distribution, that will grow over time into something far  greater. "
<directhex> oimon, wait, they're not using amigaos? o_o
<oimon> "Units come with the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS operating system. Commodore OS 1.0, along with  emulation functionality, will be mailed to purchasers when available"
<directhex> oh, of course, amigaos 4 is for PPC, and they're using a crap-end x86
<oimon> nostalgia is fun and powerful enough to expend hard earned cash on , but $600 worth?
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AmigaOS_4.1_Update_2.png
<oimon> Dual Core 525 Atom processor and  the  latest Nvidia Ion2 graphics chipset
<oimon> does anyone know what microsoft campus agreement is?
<directhex> oimon, yes.
<oimon> is it where a university sells its soul for free use of MS software across campus?
<directhex> more or less, yes. it's a site license for stuff on uni computers (but explicitly not for home machines)
<oimon> is it expensive?
<directhex> yes.
<oimon> :(
<directhex> but cheaper than a separate license for every box.
<oimon> our dept don't use MS software on 90% of our machines, so we are effectively contributing to something we don't use as part of our topslice
<directhex> yes, that's correct
<directhex> you may also have other site licenses covered via your topslicing
<directhex> e.g. matlab
<oimon> stage 1 of the microsftisation (against 99% of the staff's wishes) is complete
<directhex> hummingbird exceed
<directhex> mathematica
<directhex> etc
<oimon> directhex: no we pay for the mathematica etc stuff ourselves
<oimon> we are getting stitched up basically
<oimon> stage 2= get AD, stage 3= exchange srever, stage 4= office 365 for students
<oimon> stage 5 = oimon gets a different job
<oimon> If you do not submit an extension order (one-year option) or anniversary order (three-year option), sign a new subscription enrollment, or exercise the Buy-out option, you are required to remove all products from every computer
<directhex> oimon, stage 5, free xboxes for all!
<MartijnVdS> stage 6 = oimon's old workplace crashes & burns because he's not there anymore to maintain it?
<directhex> oimon, oh, yes, it's a lease, not a purchase.
<oimon> all this makes oimon very sad
<directhex> oimon, yes, it punishes those who aren't using CA products. but the same goes for any site license
<oimon> i stopped caring about my workplace after getting made redundant too many times. then i started again, by actually thinking i could make systems run nicely and make a difference to people.
<oimon> here's an email i received today "Thanks a lot, and thanks too for all the help you've given me over  the last few years. I think you guys do a cracking job in IT support and  I hope the people at my next uni are as good as you."
<directhex> appreciative users? what is this madness?
<oimon> i got sucked in, got emotionally involved :( now they want to rip out all the good we've done :'(
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Ubuntu and Android, sitting in a tree (nearly) - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/04/05/ubuntu-and-android-sitting-in-a-tree-nearly-
<bigcalm> There must an easier way of doing this in PHP? if (in_array($i, array(10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190))) { ... }
<soneill> if($i %10 == 0) {}
<bigcalm> Thank you!
<bigcalm> I knew it was to do with % but I couldn't work out how to google it :)
<soneill> http://uk.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.arithmetic.php
<jonny> it is called a modulo operation
<bigcalm> I should put it on a post-it really ;)
<bigcalm> My monitors are littered with post-its
<oimon> bigcalm: you mean tomboy :P
<bigcalm> oimon: I'm using windows and that's another application to keep running and a window to hunt for :)
<Laney> i heard the maintainer of tomboy is sexy
 * Laney runs
<bigcalm> Laney: who might that be?
<Laney> jus' some guy
<bigcalm> I'm guessing somebody in here
<Laney> lookin' for a break
<Laney> depends if you mean upstream or debian maintainer
<popey> :)
 * bigcalm shrugs
<oimon> the great thing about tomboy is that i am on v1.2.2 and had never thought of upgrading version until i saw popey's tweet about 1.6 today. in terms of bugs etc, i have no issues
<bigcalm> Morning popey :)
<Laney> anyway, he's very sexy
<Laney> all the girls love him
<bigcalm> Laney: lucky him. I'm happy with the love of my fiancee :)
<Laney> :-)
<Pendulum> I'm glad that I'm old enough to be considered a woman not a girl since otherwise I'd apparently be obligated to love a guy I have no interest in :-/
<Laney> all the men also want to be him
<Laney> nobody gets off scot free
<MooDoo> i don't, i'm me :D and that's good enough :)
<MooDoo> lol
<Pendulum> Laney: I'm female. I also really don't have any interest in loving men. So, yeah, I think I'm outside this circle.
<MooDoo> i love me, myself and i :)
 * bigcalm hugs Pendulum
<directhex> i love cake. shame about the diet
 * Pendulum hugs bigcalm 
 * MooDoo holds up a sign "free hugs"
<BigRedS> Hah. Just had a discussion about ubuntu being 'hippyware', come in here and MooDoo's going round offering free hugs
<BigRedS> :)
<MooDoo> BigRedS: yeah baby ;)  want some mint tea?
<oimon> :( sent some funds from my current account to my savings account for the ISA deadline and they haven't turned up yet :(
<bigcalm> oimon: that's because you sent them to my ISA, ta very much :D
<oimon> starting to worry about that. HBOS said the funds would be there on 4 april.. today is 5 april
<mistertim> Hey all - got a quick question - I seem to have consistently high load average on my laptop at the moment, but low CPU usage. In the course of investigating, I found a few processes that have a high major page fault rate (200 - 300 nFLT in top - does this qualify as 'high'?), but I've got bags of RAM free and no swap space is being used. Any pointers about what might be going wrong?
<mistertim> aah hang on - is nFLT cumulative? if so that might not be the problem at all
<popey> mistertim: pastebin the output from "top"?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> hey popey
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a back brace
<mistertim> popey: http://pastebin.com/a2LZ5QxQ - thanks!
<BigRedS> mistertim: if load is high but cpu and mem aren't, it's probably I/O
<oimon> mistertim: do you have iowait?  check iostat 60 for iowait % ,
<mistertim> oimon: Iowait is very low - less than 1%
<mistertim> actually i'm a bit confused about swap space
<mistertim> says the total is 0k but several processes claim to be using some in their columns
<oimon> mistertim: something doesn't add up - load average is high but i don't see any running processes. try vmstat 1 for a minute or so and check the first column
<popey> mistertim: how many cores ?
<popey> what cpu is it?
<directhex> boo, iowait
<mistertim> popey: 2 cores, will double check the exact model now
<popey> cat /proc/cpuinfo
<brobostigon> some final(v.3) gnome3 updates from the gnome3-team, no breakeage. :)
<popey> that load average doesn't look high to me
<mistertim> popey: intel core 2 duo 2.4ghz
<popey> you have a fair few chrome windows open
<mistertim> popey: aah, interesting. it might be nothing then -
<popey> whats the problem you're experiencing?
<oimon> popey: what's your load aver? mine is <1
<popey> oimon: depends which box I look at
<mistertim> it just seemed higher than usual is all
<popey> may well be higher than normal
<mistertim> mine is typically <1 too - and gnome system monitor consistently reports 5-6 at the mo
<ging> is there a command to reset gnome panels to the ubuntu default ?
<oimon> max load = number of cores
<oimon> is a good rule
<mistertim> may well be all the chrome tabs, but that hasn't been a problem in the past
<mistertim> oimon: aah that's useful
<oimon> mistertim: i was thinking that you have a lot of chrome processes
<popey> is there a lot of flash in those tabs?
<mistertim> popey: I've got flashblock installed, so noen
<mistertim> none
<popey> heh
<mistertim> may be an extension though
<mistertim> will disable some and have a look
<oimon> the problem could be cyclical, that's why i suggest running system monitor GUI and vmstat 1 for a few mins
<brobostigon> oimon: i have one cpu, with a single core, and regulaerly during updates get load average above 3, so that rule doesnt apply.
<mistertim> oimon: i have vmstat running now, number of running procs is all over the place
<popey> brobostigon: it wasnt a rule
<popey> it was a guideline for "normal" operation
<brobostigon> popey: well, ok, my misinterpretation.
<brobostigon> sorry,
<mistertim> seems to leap between <10 and ~40 fairly freuently
<popey> we have boxes here that go to 40-50 load average
<popey> mistertim: what does?
<brobostigon> popey: oimon called it a rule. if you look back.
<mistertim> popey: column 'r' from vmstat
<oimon> it's a rule of thumb, the 15 min load ave is  5.50, which to me means overload
<popey> rule of thumb == guideline
<popey> mistertim: isnt that your chromium processes all waking up?
<brobostigon> ok, fine, i seemed to have misinterpretated oimon's words, sorry.
<popey> mistertim: mine is 0 :)
<oimon> if your processor jumps to 50 momentarily, it's ok. but if it can't sort out that stuff quickly, then it is overloaded. that's why the 1,5, 15 min averages are useful
<oimon> mistertim: i bet if you do "ps -ef | grep chromium-browser | wc -l" you will get 40
<mistertim> popey: hah! that would be likely
<mistertim> popey: 45. Mystery solved i think
<mistertim> thanks a lot chaps - it may have been nothing, but i've certainly learnt a fair bit! :-)
<oimon> mistertim: do you have a current version of chrome?
<mistertim> oimon: nightly builds - possibly not today's though
<mistertim> it can be a bit flaky tbh
<mistertim> hah, killed chrome and the load av dropped like a stone
<mistertim> only 1 running proc now
<mistertim> i think that clears it up
<dwatkins> magic
<dwatkins> chrome has its own task manager, as you may know - shift+escape
<dwatkins> (it sometimes doesn't display and you have to choose "view background pages" in the manu)
<dwatkins> *menu
<mistertim> dwatkins: ooh, that's very useful
<dwatkins> it's a lot easier than running strace on the process ;)
<popey> nice one
<mistertim> brb reboot
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders how on earth Gwibber made it into the default Ubuntu install - it's very unreliable and a process hog.
<davmor2> popey: I'm wondering how accurate google latitude is are you really stood in the carpark?
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, because there's no good mono-based twitter client to force on people!
<dwatkins> I'm glad it's not just me that had problems with Gwibber. I thought I'd done something wrong on my install, as people seemed to be raving about it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think hotot could be a decent replacement. It's still a bit rough around the edges but pretty good from my initial experiences.
<oimon> gwibber is probably the buggiest software ever included on a default install
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: it's QT thought i think..
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: actually it's gtk2
<popey> davmor2: on my phone it shows me inside the building, just
<oimon> it just looks a bit out of place on my desktop!
<Severian> Are ther any decent mono apps?  There are not any I use.  Partially, that is by design, but no mono app ever seemed like worth trying.
<oimon> Severian: tomboy
<popey> Tomboy, Banshee
<oimon> docky
<oimon> all my faves :)
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - styling isn't the best, and I don't like the way it floods libnotify every time you start it with old mentions but otherwise it seems reliable and lightweight.
<sagaci> Severian: banshee
<Laney> all of these http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-cli-apps-team@lists.alioth.debian.org
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, especially when the old mentions were just truncated tweets that converted oimon**** into oimon
<popey> ooo, giver still exists?
<Severian> I don't know docky.  I'll go read about that.  I like VLC, and I have not seen any advantage to banshee.
<popey> banshee is a music player/manager
<popey> vlc is (mostly) a video player
<oimon> banshee is the only music app i've stayed with for more than 3 months after the demise of amarok 1.x
<directhex> jesus christ, how frequently does this come up?
<davmor2> popey: http://ubuntuone.com/p/kyW/ nope that'll be the edge of the loading bay that will :P
<popey> banshee has some very sweet features
<directhex> VLC AND BANSHEE ARE NOT THE SAME TYPE OF APP
<directhex> it's like comparing EOG and GIMP
<popey> heh
<Severian> I use VLC for music all the time.  It is nice and simple.
<oimon> Severian: but do you have a library of music files?
<popey> vlc is missing great swathes of functionality that banshee has
<directhex> vlc is a file player!
<Severian> sure.  I have a few hundred CDs converted to ogg files.
<oimon> does anyone know how to get banshee to view the music as a file tree, like amarok's file view?
<popey> davmor2: maybe I like sitting in the loading bay ;D
<Severian> directhex, right, that is one of it's best features.
<directhex> oimon, banshee doesn't have a file approach. it runs everything from the library.
<directhex> oimon, if you want a file tree, it's not the app for you
<davmor2> popey: that's your story and your sticking to it right :D
<directhex> Severian, it's a very powerful file player, but it's just a file player, and it's not the same type of app as a library player
<oimon> directhex: was hoping for an extension .. i still catch  mrs oimon using amarok 1
<Severian> directhex, I think I agree and that is why I use VLC.  It does the important stuff and stay out of the way with the stuff that is just distracting.
<oimon> Severian: how do you manage playlists, and play whole albums ?
<oimon> or find a song on a compilation somewhere
<Severian> Each album is in a directory.  I just play the directory to play the album.
<diplo> yeah i use VLC for that sometimes on my windows box
<Severian> I don't have any colpilation albums.  I lump those into a various folder where the files are named by artist and song.  It seems quite simple and easy to use.
<Severian> colpilation -> compiliation
<davmor2> popey: you want hope you boss doesn't have latitude he'll dock you money while you're out in the carpark not working :D
 * popey runs inside
<directhex> Severian, and to play a specific song, rather than an album?
<Severian> I also have an icecast server running playing a random assortment of songs.  Sometimes, I tune VLC to that.
<Severian> To play a song, I select the song.
<directhex> Severian, select from where?
<oimon> Severian: we're not saying that you are doing it wrong..but there are now music library apps that take the effort out of choosing songs etc
<Severian> I select it from the album it is in.
<oimon> using nautilus/file browser?
<directhex> Severian, so you need to have the track listings for indivdual albums memorised?
 * daubers notes city link has 10 minutes to deliver stuff after failing to deliver it on saturday, and failing to have it in the depot when I arranged to collect it yesterday
<davmor2> Severian: different people have different need I listen to music all day I don't want to have to pick the next track I want it to just play,  I have podcasts I listen to I don't want to have to go off and download each one when I have a music/podcast library tool do that for me etc etc etc
<Severian> I am not saying I am doing it the only way.  I am just trying to understand why the "library" approach would make my life any easier or do a better job.
<directhex> Severian, then i repeat my question. in order to play a given track you're in the mood for, you need to memorize which album it's from, to open the right folder for that file?
<Severian> I don't listen to music all day.  Maybe, if I listened more, I would see a difference.  I mostly listen to podcasts or from one of my icecast feeds.  I have another one that streams Melvin Bragg.
<oimon> Severian: a music library app such as banshee can present songs which are your favourites/unheard/recently added, all songs by a particular artist across all albums, song search, etc
<Severian> directhex, yes.  But, I always know the album, anyway.
<oimon> i still tend to listen to whole albums too
<popey> i dont have a music collection anymore
<popey> i use spotify
<directhex> Severian, so you're doing the computer's job for it, then? mentally searching a mental index for arbitrary metadata?
<directhex> wag the dog!
<oimon> popey: what happened to the old collection?
<popey> sat on a disk somewhere
<davmor2> popey: yes but you're sad and loney ;)  I listen a lot to absolute 80's  fantastic channel :)
<popey> :(
<popey> http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc
<oimon> i would like banshee to offer additional categories such as Sermons, Conferences, Lectures etc - it currently only offers Audiobooks which is non-editable name
<popey> sermons!?
<Laney> Your musical compatibility with popeydc is Medium
<Severian> directhex, maybe so, but I always know the album.  Am I supposed to try to forget it, so I can let a computer do it.  That seems harder to do than the system I have now.
<Laney> Music you have in common includes â¦ Sugababes
<Laney> \o/
<popey> \o/
<oimon> yes, sermons are some of the highest use of podcasting
 * popey pushes the button
<Severian> nothing happened, that I can see.  Push it again.
 * oimon notes that popey listened to blue monday on a monday
<Laney> popey was indicating that he's ready for me (boy)
<Laney> he pushed the button to let me know
<Laney> before i got the wrong idea and went (and he missed the freak that i control)
 * popey did
<Severian> Ahh.  Y'all have fun.
<gord> is spotify in such a state yet that those of us on linux can try it without paying for it?
<Laney> using wine, yes
<popey> yes
<popey> has been for ages
<oimon> gord: ads have increased in annoyance and frequency though
<gord> eh, don't want to rely on wine for my music listening
<oimon> i often turn down the vol for the ads and forget to turn it up for 2 hours
<Laney> wine or a fiver per month are your spotify options
<popey> oimon: i have never seen/heard a sermon podcast
<popey> woudln't want to either tbh :)
<directhex> yay tangerine!
<gord> i'll continue not using it then - i'm not sure what their logic is behind keeping the linux client behind a paywall
<diplo> Laney, is the fiver a limited amount of listening still though ?
 * directhex plays music from his desktop
<Laney> diplo: no, a fiver is for no ads
<Laney> "Spotify Unlimited"
<diplo> gord, last i read up on it was they we're having issues getting the ads to work correctly in linux
<gord> i have a hard time believing that
<diplo> Not looked in a while but i thought they had a higher one that was unlimited and the fiver was a certain time of listening
 * diplo reinvestigates
<Laney> premium gives you other features
<diplo> So do i, but that's the last thing i read about it
<Laney> like offline and mobile
<oimon> popey: itunes has a chart : http://www.itunescharts.net/us/charts/podcasts/2011/03/23 mars hill church is in the top 100 US podcasts
<popey> \o/ mobile
<popey> \o/ nice that mars hill church is well behind Ricky Gervais. That makes me happy
<daubers> I got a spotify premium subscription, as I can now play it through the bluetooth thing in my car \o/
<oimon> ricky is in 79th place
<AlanBell> ivanka: o/ can you join #ubuntu-accessibility for a bit
<popey> 9th place
<Laney> â¥ Pilkington â¥
<popey> â¥ Merchant â¥
<Laney> have you listened to their old xfm shows?
<Laney> if not, do
<gord> â¥ banana milkshakes â¥
<gord> why does record my desktop hate me today >:(
<MartijnVdS> â¡ Unicode â¥
<popey> i have an archive of them  Laney
<Laney> good man
 * oimon notices there is a podcast called All about Android 
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you find any good podcasts?
<davmor2> gord: you confused it hates you everyday just more than normal today ;)  what's up with it?
<gord> its making 0 byte files
<davmor2> gord: Man it really hates you
<gord> i can see it encoding though, so that's annoying
<gord> oh wait no, i see why. hrm. yes that would be a problem
<gord> *deletes files so that he has more than 1byte free on his home drive*
<davmor2> gord: I just tried it's working fine here :(
<diplo> ah so I can't use on my mobile with unlimited
<oimon> if i get some work done at the dentist and it gives me gip, do i get free follow up within 2 months of the work being done?
<davmor2> oimon: is it a good podcast though?
<oimon> davmor2: hope to find out
<shauno> The Bugle has to be my favourite podcast.  even if it is from the times.  funny stuff :)
<DJones> oimon: I think you do
<oimon> \o/
<oimon> although i always get the feeling my dentist is out for ways to earn $Â£Â£ from me
<oimon> longs for a day when his teeth aren't hurting at some point :S
<Pendulum> oimon: I thought that's what all dentists wanted
<AlanBell> oimon: tell the dentist about openmolar
<oimon> AlanBell: most dentists use access on win95
<oimon> in my experience
 * brobostigon has ham toasties and ginger beer, :)
<AlanBell> about time they changed then
<DJones> oimon: But may depend how much you've paid, normally you pay about Â£16 for the 1st visit & another Â£30 for the follow up, but I think once you've paid the Â£46 most normal treatment within 2 months is covered
<oimon> paid Â£16 + Â£80 for a filling
<DJones> oimon: Gold filling?
<oimon> no :( the gold one cost Â£500 on my other tooth
<oimon> well that was a crown.
<oimon> old age makes oimon sad
 * DJones gets the pliers out, a Â£500 crown might be worth something at www.webuyyouroldgold.co.uk
<oimon> deffo
<oimon> she dropped it into the back of my throat when applying it. i almost swallowed as a reflex
<oimon> not sure what would have happened then
<DJones> Nature would take its course :)
<oimon> but would they want to apply the same crown or get a new one?
<oimon> i wouldn't like the idea of having a poo tooth
<oimon> in my mouth
 * brobostigon tunes out, as he is having lunch,
<davmor2> oimon: Â£1000 for a crown :D
 * oimon checks the CoC
<oimon> davmor2: on the website?
<oimon> beautiful pics http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1373277/London-s-secret-wildlife-wonderland-revealed-photographer-rose-dawn-day-capture-stunning-images.html
 * oimon isn't a daily mail reader, but even if he was, wouldn't apologise for it
<MartijnVdS> daily fail ;)
<shauno> sigh.
<davmor2> hey gord that'll be one for you.  open up idle in natty now it crashes compiz :D
<davmor2> gord: any tcl/tk app will do idle was just the one I had installed
<gord> davmor2, i hear that yeah
<davmor2> gord: I think the bulk of the bugs have been pointed at unity incorrectly however :(
<gord> thats usually the way :)
<gord> davmor2, fixed in compiz trunk apparently
<dwatkins> wow, X just completely hung just after logging in on 10.10, that's wierd
<davmor2> gord: that's normally the way too :D
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> quickie for yas
<cbx33> I want to take an ubuntu install on a laptop and put it on a desktop
<cbx33> easiest way to do it?
<DJones> cbx33: I would probably do a fresh install on the desktop & copy the home parition over
<DJones> !cloning
<lubotu3> To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type Â« aptitude  --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic' > ~/my-packages Â», move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type Â« sudo xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < my-packages ; sudo aptitude install Â» - See also !automate
<DJones> And use that to replicate the packages onto the 2nd machine
<cbx33> i need "this" install
<shauno> do you keep backups?  just restore your latest backup onto the new machine :)
<diplo> Shameless pimp : http://askubuntu.com/questions/33460/hp-probook-4720s-fans-running-constantly-at-full
<cbx33> there is some very specific setup on this machine - I just want to copy the whole machine - I'll probably just format the drive - rsync the data over and reinstall grub
<oimon> cbx33: have you ever used dd before?
<oimon> dd will clone a drive to another one of the same size or larger.
<cbx33> yeh - dd is an option but the drive I am copying onto is smaller
<cbx33> which is an ass
<cbx33> I could just resize the original
<shauno> I'd just use tar.   tar --xattrs --selinux --one-file-system -cf - /dir | (cd /new/path; tar -xf -)   then boot the new box from a livecd to set grup up
<cbx33> but don't really want to futz with it
<cbx33> ahh yeh could use grub for recovering
<cbx33> i mean live cd
<cbx33> didn't think of that
<shauno> assuming you've got a sensible way to mount the target drive on the current machine.  if not, you can wedge netcat in the middle of that pipeline to do it across a network
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> tar --xattrs --selinux --one-file-system -cf - /dir | (cd /new/path; tar -xf -)
<cbx33> is that complete?
<shauno> should be  (you'll want / for /dir tho)
<cbx33> yah
<cbx33> I'll need an exclude though right
<cbx33> to exclude the mouted dest
<shauno> --one-file-system stops it wandering off the current device  (stops it picking up devfs, proc, etc too)
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> ty
<cbx33> yeh of course
<cbx33> forgot that one
<shauno> or that's my understanding of --one-file-system atleast.  if you spot it trying to tar up /dev or /proc, may need to rethink ;)
<oimon> diplo: does windows show the fan speeds?
<cbx33> hehe
<diplo> Nope, but it does control them
<diplo> occasionally comes on with flash vids etc
<shauno> cbx33: if you can mount the laptop drive on the new machine, I'd be tempted to do the whole operation from a livecd.  so you're copying /mnt/oldsystem to /mnt/newsystem, instead of picking up 'running state' cruft
<oimon> diplo: have you run sensors-detect and also tried fancontrol?
<cbx33> that was my intention
<cbx33> shauno: good plan
<diplo> Yep and yep, all it does is detect temps
<oimon> diplo: one more, do you have stuff in /sys/class/hwmon/
<diplo> not sure, give me a sec in win7 atm :)
<diplo> will reboot once svn import has finished
<diplo> :)
<popey> with ls, is there a way to supress "ls: No match.
<oimon> diplo: or when you have time, look at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fan_Speed_Control - you mighht be able to turn off/on fans based upon self-defined criteria
<popey> when there are no files found?
<daubers> \o/ City Link fails again
<diplo> rebooting
<oimon> popey: you could redirect stderr to a file or /dev/null
<oimon> ls missingfile 2> /dev/null
<popey> > ls -1 *.car 2> /dev/null
<popey> ls: No match.
<popey> doesn't work
<diplo> oimon,  hwmon has lot's of temp<number> files in there with name, uevent and a power/subsystem folder
<oimon> popey: which OS?
<popey> rhel5
<popey> oh, wrong shell, sory
<oimon> csh is evil
<hoover> agreed
 * hoover hacked away on tcsh for a long time
<hoover> slightly less evil
<hoover> but once bash got tab completion... ;-)
<oimon> i think even csh got file completion on solaris eventually. would have saved me years of pain
<hoover> yep, I think so too
<oimon> by default, solaris used to ship with a bourne shell for root with minimal features, to discourage admins from staying logged in as root too long
<directhex> because if root could tab complete, THE WORLD WOULD END
<oimon> or allowed history
<directhex> make the experience miserable. punish that sysadmin!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: or anyone</freebsd>
<oimon> or even had $PATH
<directhex> oimon, solaris has always been retarded by default.
<xwx> iphoneï¼
<diplo> oimon, it seems that arch page is good if it detects your fan but i get nowt/nada
<xwx> whatâs thatï¼
<popey> o_O
<oimon> diplo: ok, sorry to get the hopes up. i thought maybe you could at least siwtch it on and off manually using device control :(
<oimon> solaris was good to learn a disciplined way before experiencing linux. although i used vim for years on linux without realising the extra stuff it could do, because i was used to years of solaris vi
<hazrpg1> \o
<oimon> achieved over 1000 days uptime on my solaris boxes on various occasions
<Hazmaster> how's everyone doing :)
<brobostigon> good afternoon Hazmaster :)
<diplo> heh, I've close to given up anyway oimon
<oimon> diplo: do you boot with any special kernel options? acpi ones
<diplo> Nope, started looking into it but couldn't find anything useful at the time
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> :s
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<oimon> diplo: found this comment, looks scary though http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8962178&postcount=9
<diplo> just ffound acpi_hp in manpages on ubuntu site
<diplo> so may try both
<diplo> ta
<oimon> popey: how do i learn about volunteering for packaging for ubuntu? got lots of exp on rhel packaging for local repos
<X3N> oimon: have you looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<oimon> X3N: cheers will take a look
<X3N> and possibly https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<X3N> ^ which is more about the actual package contribution process rather than creating packages
<oimon> ta
<smittix> Afternoon All
<smittix> I really need to stop trying to access the old app menu in natty
<smittix> It's doing my nut in now
<X3N> It's doing your nat in ;)
<smittix> heh
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: good afternoon :)
<brobostigon> Hazmaster: good afternoon, :)
<Hazmaster> man this keyboard is soooo tiny!
<Hazmaster> someone remind me why netbooks are so popular again :/
<Hazmaster> i barely use mine
<Hazmaster> if i was ever going to use this properly i would probably have to carry a wireless/wired keyboard && mouse!
<Pendulum> I use mine when I'm going somewhere and don't want to bring my laptop
<gord> some of us don't want to carry a laptop around with us and don't want to use a phone
<Pendulum> but I have small hands and don't have issues with the smaller keyboard
<gord> you get used to netbook keyboards anyway, they are fine
<Hazmaster> I guess but my fingers keep tring to press two keys at once >_<
<Hazmaster> either i've got big hands, or the keys are way too tiny and too close for my likeing
<directhex> get a stylus, use to press keys!
<Hazmaster> directhex: sort of defeats the poitn :P
<gord> typing is based on muscle memory, your bad at typing on a netbook really just because your pressing the inbetween parts, you expect the keys to be further away, all you need is practice and you'll be fine
<Pendulum> My one issue with my netbook is that the trackpad is horrid
<oimon> my issues with my netbook is that it is slow, has no touchscreen, and poor battery life, and low res screen ...yes i bought the eee 701
<penguin42> my one issue with my netbook is that the linux drivers for the wireless on more recent Ubuntus are very touchy
<Hazmaster> see on mine, i have the right button button as a button on the whole far right column, and left as a left column... its really weird...
<Hazmaster> what happened the the standard two buttons at the top thing :S
<Hazmaster> penguin42: heh, i had trouble with wireless drivers the other night when i was installing ubuntu on someone's laptop!
<MartijnVdS> RTL is.. weird
<MartijnVdS> at least for most of us LTR-people
<Hazmaster> heh
<Hazmaster> thats not quite what i mean
<Hazmaster> i mean it has 3 columns on my mouse pad
<Hazmaster> a wide centre-piece for moving the mouse around, and two boxes on either side thats skinny as left/right mouse buttons
<Hazmaster> so you end up using your middle finger for moving the mouse, and thumb for left-clicks, and when you want to right-click, you have to sort of rearrange your hand around
<shauno> you don't have a pinkie finger?
<Hazmaster> its odd
<MartijnVdS> four-fingered Hazmaster
<Hazmaster> shauno: i do... but its numb most of the time
<MartijnVdS> counts in octal :)
<Hazmaster> can barely do much with it
<Hazmaster> you should see me on guitar hero... i use 3 fingers for all 5 keys
<MartijnVdS> Hazmaster: how did you end up like that? :)
<Hazmaster> it gets insane >_< but its what i'm use to because i can't press hard enough with my pinky
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: no idea, always been like that as far as i know :P
<MartijnVdS> Hazmaster: gimpy pinky
<Hazmaster> might just be simply lack of practice
<smittix> Bah I am trying to add a route out on a line that has no proxy but for some reason it wont work
<Hazmaster> and not enough pinky-cise
<MartijnVdS> Hazmaster: http://chromercise.com/
<shauno> or http://www.thextensor.com/  :)
<Hazmaster> MartijnVdS: xD
<Hazmaster> shauno: heh
<shauno> doesn't that thing look terrifying
<shauno> oh that's fun.  handbrake is apparently using about 680% of my cpu.  wheeeee
<MartijnVdS> shauno: octocore?
<shauno> quad, but with hyperthreading.
<shauno> still trying to get the hang of how activity monitor tracks that.  on my old c2d, pegging one core was 100%, so 200% was the ceiling
<shauno> apparently on this one, pegging one core is 200%, if you're using both threads properly.  so 800% is the ceiling
<directhex> it's just 100% per thread.
<directhex> but hyperthreading will never hit full utilization
<shauno> it's going roughly 5 times as fast as my old machine, so I'm pretty happy either way :)
<oimon> shauno: converting DVDs?
<shauno> (based on the fps of the actual encode.  it's the results that matter)
<shauno> oimon: just rescaling to fit my TV (the box I have under the TV is rather weak)
 * oimon has some spare HPC clusters ..should sell out the remaining cluster time
<shauno> I think with my paltry upload, it's faster to do it myself
<shauno> I've been really tempted to move to 100mbit, just to get double the upstream :/
<Hazmaster> right time to go meet peoples
<Hazmaster> its someone's b-day, and i need to help her get her newly ubuntu box onto the internets (she's currently on windows because she couldn't work it out even though i showed her how :P)
<Hazmaster> catch ya later guys :)
<Hazmaster> o/
<brobostigon> bye Hazmaster o/
<Hazmaster> brobostigon: :) o/
<ali1234> looks like gvfsd has a nasty memory leak
<cbx33> grr that task i wanted to do earlier is now more complicated by the presense of LVM
<cbx33> shauno: any ideas now :p
<cbx33> i can create a new pv
<cbx33> but i can't call the vg the same
<oimon> reluctantly cancelling my subs to linux magazine :(
<cbx33> but i could rename it afterwards
<oimon> due to no time to read it , and cost-cutting measures enforced by much higher living costs in the last year or so :(
<dogmatic69> oimon: lxf?
<oimon> dogmatic69: no, the far superior (IMO) linux magazine: http://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Current-Issue
<ali1234> hmm looks like it is to do with gnome-system-properties that i left running all night
<dogmatic69> hmmm
<dogmatic69> oimon: cheaper too
<oimon> Â£40 per year..but still too much for me right now
<dogmatic69> xlf is 53
<dogmatic69> oimon: get a trial subscription, Â£3 for the next 3 months, use that time to save ;)
<shauno> cbx33: haven't used lvm, sorry
 * penguin42 starts his annual fight with gnucash
<shauno> ooh, interesting solution to the england vs ireland cricket dilema.  ireland aren't being allowed in the 2015 world cup
<oimon> oooer any doctors in the house?
 * brobostigon goes and plays with android app inventor.
<ali1234> ok, anyone want to try to confirm bug 751523?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 751523 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-monitor spams dbus with requests for volume information" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751523
<oimon> ali1234: i can try in natty or lucid
<oimon> not meerkat
<ali1234> you might have to leaveit running for 12 hours or so...
<oimon> can do that on natty then :)
<ali1234> it doesn't seem to affect natty from my test
<ali1234> although it's only been running for 10 minutes
<gord> bug fixed then :)
<oimon> \0/
<ali1234> only half of it
<ali1234> there's two bugs really
<oimon>  /0\
<ali1234> system-monitor bug merely exposes another bug in gvfsd
<ali1234> this is very similar to the last "memory leak" i tracked down
<ali1234> where a badly written app is spamming another app with requests, causing it to use too much memory
<ali1234> everyone thinks it is a leak, but theres no evidence of such because the bug is actually in another app and the "leaky" app is just doing what it is told
<oimon> mem leaks used to be few and far between in the olden days :(
<ali1234> so the bug never gets found or fixed because triagers just say "post valgrind log" which is not useful at all in these situations
<ali1234> looks like this bug has been floating about for a couple of years at least
<ali1234> i never noticed it before because i've never left gsm running over night on the filesystems page before
<oimon> ali1234 do you have any extra filesystems mounted too?
<ali1234> sure, loads on maverick
<oimon> e.g. mem cards
<ali1234> all kinds of stuff
<oimon> usb sticks
<ali1234> but it seems to be hitting the "gphoto2" gvfs among other things
<ali1234> everyone seems to have that
<ali1234> under natty i have hardly anything cos its a vm
<oimon> i wonder if it would show up on a system without non-local disks attached?
<ali1234> i'm just starting some to see
<oimon> maybe attacha screenshot of the filesytem tab to show mounted filesystems
<ali1234> it probably happens faster/slower depending how many filesystems you have mounted
<ali1234> but i bet it still happens
<oimon> gvfsd is using little mem on my natty box atm
<ali1234> it might not even start leaking until the xsession-errors starts filling up
<ali1234> "leaking"
<ali1234> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
<oimon> ali1234: what does  gvfs-mount -l show on your bo
<oimon> x
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/tGEPeDZL
<oimon> mine was empty. have stuck in a USB stick
<ali1234> on natty mine only has the natty install iso from virtualbox
<ali1234> would be interesting to mount a ext4 filesystem or something through it like on mav
<ali1234> knotify4 is also using 1GB of swap
<ali1234> i bet that's related
<oimon> ali1234: i often don't reboot for 2 months at a time and running many apps at once, plugging my phone etc, but don't see this problem
<oimon> although i import photos mainly on my home laptop
<ali1234> i don't use photo import
<ali1234> i don't use any of this stuff
<ali1234> i never had this problem until i left gnome-system-monitor running over night
<oimon> ping me tomorrow and i'll check my resource usage after leaving it on overnight
<ali1234> ok, i restarted gsm
<ali1234> seems it doesn't trigger the leak until it hits the dbus limit
<ali1234> sorry, my mistake, it actually does
<ali1234> you do have to be on "file systems" tab to see it though
<oimon> i am ,but don't see anything amiss
<ali1234> then gvfsd memory use increases by about 1mb/second
<ali1234> gonna install lucid in a minute and see if that is affected
<ali1234> then maybe maverick
<oimon> i'm on lucid now..hang on
<oimon> cannot reproduce in natty
<ali1234> the effect is very obvious in fact
<ali1234> if you watch eg top
<ali1234> gvfsd memory use increases by 1mb nearly every time top refreshes
<oimon> i have watch -n 1 "ps -efl | grep gvfsd" while file systems tab open (lucid and natty)
<oimon> lucid going upVERY slowly
<oimon> 2197kb..2232KB
<ali1234> which column am i looking at?
<oimon> SZ
<ali1234> columns aren't labelled here
<ali1234> i just see this: 0 S al       31598     1  0  80   0 - 27905 poll_s 16:28 ?        00:00:02 /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd
<oimon> 27905
<ali1234> top says: 31598 al        20   0  113m  43m 2044 S    0  1.1   0:02.24 gvfsd
<ali1234> that's gone up by 2mb since i pasted it
<ali1234> try: top -p `pidof gvfsd`
<cbx33> guys just managed to copy the whole information to the disk
<cbx33> but doing grub-install it's not seeming to read the config
<cbx33> just gives me a grub prompt
<cbx33> any ideas?
<oimon> ali1234:  res 4396 shr 1708
<ali1234> do a pxe install
<ali1234> oimon: res and virt are the interesting ones
<ali1234> half what gets allocated never gets used again so it goes directly into virt
<ali1234> i'm now at 158m  73m
<ali1234> ps -efl still says 41005
<gord> i really don't like that some websites know who i am on facebook, anyone know how to get rid of that?
<ali1234> log out of facebook
<soneill> lol
<ali1234> i thinkthere's a firefox extension to do it as well
<gord> no no staying logged out seems to work, seems this machien is the only one of my machine that had "keep me logged in" checked
<ali1234> http://superuser.com/questions/144973/blocking-facebooks-like-button-in-firefox
<ali1234> i dunno if that wil actually stop websites from knowing you or just hide the box
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.ghostery.com/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that works for me
<gord> oh - i'm wearing a tshirt from a conference today, guess its time to do the laundry
<MartijnVdS> gord: hah, you work like that too? :)
<ali1234> i just noticed that natty has the screen-edge-maximise behaviour copied from windows 7
<ali1234> so i guess it's not all bad
<ali1234> that one i actually like
<ali1234> not sure how it will work with two monitors though
<seeker> ali1234: On win 7 it only works on outside edges
<Myrtti> meh
<davmor2> alright who stole cz<tab>
<jacobw> evening
<BigRedS> exit
<BigRedS> oop. wrong pane...
<jacobw> :)
<jonsaint> hi all. need help or advice! got a so called netbook thingy which is my cousins. its a dell inspiron mini running crappy win 7 and its got blue screen of death. how can i put ubuntu on t and wipe off win 7?
<BigRedS> jonsaint: generally, download unetbootin, use it to make a USB key installer, then boot off it
<BigRedS> you'll need another computer with which to do the unetbootin bit
<jonsaint> will my pc do as thats ubuntu?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> unetbootin's in the repositories
<BigRedS> I think there's a ubuntu tool for making the instt CDs
<jonsaint> so this unetbootin, where can i get it and is that all i will need or what as ive never done this before
<moreati> !unetbootin
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<jonsaint> so i have to tell my memory stick to boot?? (however that happens!)
<BigRedS> ywah, that'll be in the bios on the netbook
<BigRedS> Usually, I think, F12 for a boot menu, then choose USB HDD
<jonsaint> so all i need to do is put ubuntu on the stick?? do a copy/paste??
<BigRedS>  no, you need to make it into an installer
<BigRedS> with unetbootin, for example
<jonsaint> where do i get that programme from?
<jacobw> !liveusb
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<BigRedS> ah, ignore my bit, jacobw's suggestion is a better one
<jonsaint> i found it on software centre
<jonsaint> so once i installed that, will that convert it into a boot file then?
<BigRedS> it'll make a usb stick into an installer, yeah
<BigRedS> that you can boot from, as you might an installer CD
<jonsaint> il try that. many thanks folks il give it a whirl
<smittix> Doesn't fglrx work in natty yet?
<BigRedS> does fglrx ever work?
<smittix> heh
<smittix> Installed it and ended up with a garbled unusable system until i removed the package
<BigRedS> yeah, I think thats what it's for
<BigRedS> :)
<smittix> I only use it for the power management
<smittix> Otherwise my battery lasts around 2 nano seconds
<gord> i have read that yes fglrx works now
<jacobw> proprietary sucks :(
<ali1234> more importantly, does nvidia work in natty yet?
<brobostigon> intel still gives gpu lockups/hangs.
<moreati> ali1234: I've been using it a few days, seems okay
<ali1234> i tried reproducing the gvfs bug in maverick and lucid vms and neither worked
<jacobw> i've no problem with the intel card on my netbook
<smittix> I can't seem to get FGLRX working at all :/
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete]
<brobostigon> jacobw: that bug, is my issue.
<ali1234> why is it incomplete?
<brobostigon> ali1234: because i have yet to find, a kernel that actually works properly, as suggested by bryce, to test out, if it exists or is gone, or otherwise.
<brobostigon> ali1234: or anyone for that matter, maybe.
<ali1234> he asked you to test with a specific kernel
<ali1234> you did it and it didn't work
<ali1234> so mark it back to new or confirmed
<ali1234> btw i have i945 i will test this
<brobostigon> ali1234: ah, yes, good idea. that would help alot, getting the most information possible.
<ali1234> how long does it normally take to get a gpu lockup?
<brobostigon> ali1234: mins/hours/days , it is random as far as i can see.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] ShipIt Discontinued, Long Live LoCo Teams - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/05/shipit-discontinued-long-live-loco-teams/
<bigcalm> What's the release date for 11.04?
<popey> 24/4 iirc
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Now give me your postal address :P
<popey> 28/4 actually
<bigcalm> 23 days left to iron out all them bugs. Fun
<ali1234> ah, i reproduced gvfsd bug on natty :)
<ali1234> and lucid
<Myrtti> mmmm boiled candy with salmiakki powder heart, nomnomnom
<Myrtti> also: I'm mad, I'm writing a summer job application for my nephew
<matti> ;]
<ali1234> and maverick, all with clean installs
<shauno> should I be trying beta-1 or nightlies?
<ali1234> i'm using nightlies
<Pendulum> Myrtti: why are you writing the summer job application?
<Myrtti> Pendulum: because my no good nephew doesn't know how to write one and he needs a summer job :-)
<Myrtti> well, no good is an overstatement
<Pendulum> lazy?
<Myrtti> he's good in football and playing with PS3
<Myrtti> I guess it goes with being 15
<ali1234> ok, i updated instructions to reproduce on bug 751523
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 751523 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-monitor spams dbus with requests for volume information" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751523
<ali1234> now it can be reproduced on any of the 6 systems i tried it on
<brobostigon> am i right in saying, AlanBell will now be managing distribution of the loco's allocated cd's?
 * AlanBell distributed 18 today
<AlanBell> brobostigon: if you want CDs then put your request on the plan http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2011plan
<AlanBell> I don't know when we will get the Natty CDs
<brobostigon> AlanBell: natty, will be my  interest.
<ali1234> hmm gvfsd uses 4x as much memory on 64 bit...
<AlanBell> looks like I can fill in the form now though
<AlanBell> * Ubuntu: PC: 250
<AlanBell> * Kubuntu: PC: 50
<AlanBell> * Server PC: PC: 50
<brobostigon> ubuntu golf day, :)
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i just read the post on jono's blog about it.
 * AlanBell has submitted the Natty CD request
<AlanBell> I think we should do a Kubuntu installfest, whilst all wearing blue wigs
<brobostigon> lol
<Pendulum> AlanBell: will it involve the Chickens too?
 * brobostigon could get blue streaks.
<AlanBell> Pendulum: I will of course reserve one CD for the chicken's upgrade
<brobostigon> hehe
 * brobostigon is getting fedup with a certain discussion on the gnome-shell mailing list.
<AlanBell> if anyone is pondering being an ubuntu member you might want to go and lurk in #ubuntu-meeting where there is a membership board meeting underway now
 * brobostigon graceully declines, and thanks AlanBell.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what does it mean to be a memeber?
<bigcalm> -e
<AlanBell> !member
<lubotu3> Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<shauno> well that didn't go so well.  installer couldn't find the cdrom
<bigcalm> I have the feeling that I do bugger all
<brobostigon> i do what i can, in the way i can. and people know my capabilties and what i have done, so at the moment, i see no need.
<ali1234> does anyone know how dbus works internally?
<ali1234> eg when you set a watch on something where is it stored and under what conditions does it get removed?
<shauno> I can't figure out where I can download natty that isn't wsu.edu  :/
<ali1234> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<brobostigon> shauno: cdimage.ubuntu.com
<shauno> tried the daily, no go
<ali1234> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/11.04/beta-1/
<ali1234> oh, that's a dvd
<shauno> ah.  wasn't expecting it to be in the releases tree
<shauno> the link off ubuntu.com was giving me 22 days :/
<OO> Hey could anyone help me with some sound problems?
<brobostigon> OO: good evening, could you elaborate abit more please.
<OO> Well my computer has internal speakers and i can't get them to make any sounds
<OO> This is the result of lspci
<brobostigon> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<brobostigon> OO: please use a pastebin.
<OO> Yeah i was just prepping it for paste.ubuntu.com ;P
<brobostigon> :)
<OO> http://paste.ubuntu.com/589845/
<brobostigon> OO: pastebinit is useful, pipe lspci etc into pastebinit, and it automaticlly pastebin's its input.
<OO> That's the name of the program?
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> it just saves alittle time.
<brobostigon> OO: what does alsamixer sayabout it?
<popey> OO: what is in /proc/asound/cards ?
<OO> This is from ls /proc/acards/ : http://paste.ubuntu.com/589902/
<OO> /proc/asound/cards is a text document containing the following: http://paste.ubuntu.com/589903/
<jonsaint> hi all. managed to install ubuntu on a dell inspiron mini but unable to get wifi to work. got an exclamation mark on there. entered my details from my wifi but no joy. anyone give advice?
<HazRPG> \o herro
<brobostigon> noswaith dda HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o :)
<brobostigon> o/
<bigcalm> Evening aquarius, welcome to the mad house :)
<Darael> Mad house?  This isn't the mad house!  We can leave any time we want.  Besides, only /some/ of us are mad.
<aquarius> the place where you can check out any time you like but you can never leave isn't in the UK, it's in California :)
<bigcalm> They have a nice hotel I hear
<bigcalm> I'm surprised you didn't join sooner. Work gone a little quiet? ;)
 * bigcalm moshes while coding to NIN \m/
<Pendulum> aquarius: congrats :)
<bigcalm> MySQL question: records have start and end date fields. I need a query that will select records that start, end or completely overlap a given date window. The start and end dates within the date window is easy and working. Stuck on the complete overlap, any ideas?
<aquarius> Pendulum, thanks
<Pendulum> aquarius: still not sure why it took you longer than it took me, though :P
<aquarius> bigcalm, more that I keep meaning to and forgetting, and I was reminded and thought: I should just tick "auto-join", shouldn't I?
<aquarius> Pendulum, ah, well, I've gotta prove myself
<bigcalm> aquarius: aha :)
<Pendulum> hah
<bigcalm> aquarius: I saw jono in #lugradio the other day. He muttered something about getting the lads together in the summer. Any news? :D
 * bigcalm realises that asking this is akin to asking when oggcamp will be ;)
<popey> hah
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<AlanBell> o/ aquarius
<aquarius> hey AlanBell. Thanks for your testimonial!
<aquarius> bigcalm, that sort of question is 3% dependent on what I think and 97% dependent on when el Baconio is actually in perfidious Albion :)
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> Damn it, I want bacon now
<bigcalm> No, not Jono :P
<bigcalm> I have to say, NIN really does work nicely for coding
<bigcalm> Suits my mood due to sql ticking me off
<MasterComputer> Anyone alive? I've got a worrying issue here. Anyone know phillw?
<Pendulum> MasterComputer: no one AFAIK knows him in person and he doesn't hang out here
<Pendulum> but I also don't know anyone who has seen him around for at least a week on IRC, I think either
<Pendulum> (I think my last e-mail from him was about a week ago)
<MasterComputer> Pendulum: This is highly worrying, he's gone AWOL, I have no idea what's happened to him. I'm trying to find someone local to him to check up on him.
<Pendulum> MasterComputer: yeah, he didn't hang out in #ubuntu-uk at all. I know generally where in the UK he is, but not specifics
<MasterComputer> What was his usual hangout, Pendulum?
<Pendulum> MasterComputer: I think #ubuntu-beginners for a while. and probably whatever the lubuntu channel is
<MasterComputer> Thank you, Pendulum; I'll check there.
<shauno> :/ Beta1 can't find my cdrom either
<Guest> Hey brobostigon and popey, i resolved my sound problems by installing gnome's alsa mixer and unticker Master Mixer (which was ticked to mute). This was something I couldn't access from LXDE's volume control. Sound works now :)
<Guest> Thanks for the help you two gave me :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> Guest: you're welcome.
<Guest> I was OO, btw
<Guest> That nicks currently unavailable for some unknown reason lol
<brobostigon> 22:56:47 -!- Guest [~OO@unaffiliated/oo] has joined #ubuntu-uk
<brobostigon> i could tell, :)
<bigcalm> guest: you could /msg nickserv ghost oo
<bigcalm> Oh, it isn't active
<brobostigon> i just checked, the nick OO is still logged in.
 * bigcalm shrugs, smiles and returns to MySQL
<brobostigon> it is showing as connedted to freenode but no channels.
<brobostigon> anyway, i need sleep,
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<shauno> Is there any way to tell d-i what device the disk is on?
<Guest> Night night
<brobostigon> night Guest.
<brobostigon> shauno: d-i ?
<shauno> the installer
<brobostigon> ubiquity?
<brobostigon> !info ubiquity
<lubotu3> ubiquity (source: ubiquity): Ubuntu live CD installer. In component main, is optional. Version 2.4.8 (maverick), package size 4041 kB, installed size 14260 kB
<AlanBell> d-i is debian installer on the alternate CD
<brobostigon> i was just going to ask.
<shauno> Text based, can't launch the livecd without being able to find disk either
<shauno> Sorry, thumbing away at phone do not so snappy responses
<brobostigon> shauno: i would go to serperate terminal and run fdisk -l and or df -h -T
<AlanBell> do you have a particularly strange configuration shauno?
<shauno> I can find it, it's /dev/sg0
<Guest> Ah no bos i said night night because i thought you were going to bed :P
<AlanBell> or a really really old/new/odd CD drive?
<brobostigon> Guest: i was, untill shauno'squestion came up.
<shauno> Week-old MacBook pro. Only oddity I can tell with drive is that dvdrw is sata too
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<brobostigon> night Guest :)
<Guest> nighty
<bigcalm> Good night brobostigon
<brobostigon> night bigcalm
<Guest> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> shauno: ah, new *and* odd
<shauno> Oh that's odd. Mount /dev/sg0 says it's not a block device
<AlanBell> that will be similar to an issue popey had
<AlanBell> kernel bug
<AlanBell> it is initialising the CD incorrectly in some way
<shauno> Awesome. No mention on wiki :(
<AlanBell> I think his issue was with the hard drive controller though
<popey> hmm?
<AlanBell> new macbook pro not recognising the CD drive when the kernel starts actually trying to drive it
<popey> nope
<popey> not recognising the sata controller
<popey> so can't see hdd
<shauno> I 'seem' to have a hdd, based on /dev/sda1 & 2 existing
<shauno> no 'file' in busybox so couldn't tell much better than that
<shauno> hm, no mention at all in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-1/Natty or the forum thread it points to :(
<shauno> photos of screen = screenshot ftw.
<Guest> Anyone had anyluck running flux?
<Guest> It wont change my computers brightness
<bigcalm> guest: I've tried it in Windows and Ubuntu, sadly it makes me ill
<Guest> I can't do without it, my eyes are actually hurting at the moment :(
<Guest> Why does it make you ill?
<bigcalm> That I don't know
<Guest> Nausic?
<bigcalm> Make me feel sick, akin to motion sickness
<bigcalm> Yep
<Guest> Maybe you've got sensitive eyes
<bigcalm> Every girl I've dated has said I have nice eyes ;)
<Guest> :D Not to sure why flux isn't working, terminal output tells me nothing
<Guest> And damn, vlc looks ugly in lxde
<shauno> okay, the sata controller appears to be alive.  I can mount /dev/sda1, but /dev/sg0 isn't a block device
<Guest> Ah i see, vlc uses qt wheras lxde is best suited for gtk+
<shauno> so it doesn't appear to be 576601; their suggestion to use nomodeset makes no difference, and sda seems sensible
<popey> shauno: mine is a 7,1 not an 8,1
<directhex> hm, kindle is debian-based. i didn't know that.
<popey> it is!?
<bigcalm> Isn't everything these days?
<shauno> is there a way to find out what driver is attached to something in /dev/?
<shauno> sg0 is 21,0 which is correct, but not answering as a block device is well funky
<Guest> Strange request: Can anyone recommend a wallpaper?
<directhex> Guest, this: http://sadpanda.us/images/188309-HO1SXX9.jpg
<bigcalm> guest: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/sets/72057594070877691/
<bigcalm> directhex: nice
<DasEi> Guest: do your own with digicam
<bigcalm> Looking at those photos makes me want to get out with my camera again and add to the collection
<DasEi> shauno: hwinfo -v , or look through lsmod
<bigcalm> Slumber time, night all
<shauno> neither appear to be in initramfs :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-06
<OO> Not too sure what happened there, those pics drove my computer to a grinding halt :/
<OO> Could you say again atall?
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/screen.jpg   seems to be pretty relevant :/
<ali1234> hmm looks familiar
<ali1234> istr a maverick bug that did that, it wasn't actually a problem with sata though, but something else completely random
<ali1234> the ata errors were none fatal and just happened to be the last thing on the screen
<ali1234> could be unrelated though
<shauno> that's all dmesg has for that device
<ali1234> hmm ok you grepped
<ali1234> so what's on tail of dmesg?
<shauno> and grep sg0 just has a "sd 0:0:0:0: Attached SCSI generic sg0 type 0"
<ali1234> can you see it in /dev/ or mount it or anything like that?
<shauno> It's in dev, but mount tells me it's not a block device.
<shauno> Booting again now, will find out what dmesg has for me
<shauno> Assuming sg0 is ata2 as there's no sdb,c, etc. Just sda which is mountable
<ali1234> sounds bad
<Guest> Why thanks ubuntu
<Guest> You have 206 updates available!
<hamitron> better than having 205 and an extra "problem" left
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I don't see anything else odd in dmesg; http://oneil.me.uk/dmesg.txt in it's entirety
<shauno> it didn't add any other log messages until I found a usb key to stick in it 1-2 minutes later
<shauno> just seems to spend about 15 seconds waiting for ata2 to make sense, then gives up and dumps me into initramfs
<shauno> (this is beta1, daily did the same)
<shauno> well, I should drop it for tonight.  gotta be up in 4 hours.  added to the forum thread to see if anyone else running the same is seeing this.
<shauno> join date nov 2004, and that's my first post.  forums aren't my bag, baby
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> cool i earned the tumbleweed achievement on askubuntu :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> hello!
<danfish> over the past 3 days I've upgraded (not fresh install \o/) natty on my laptop, revo box and zoneminder server, and touching wood, four leafed shamrocks etc, everything works as expected :)
<danfish> my experience with Unity can be summed up as a 30min rollercoaster - 10mins 'how does this thing work', 10mins 'this is cr*p and is going out of the window, to a final 10mins of 'this is actually an interesting way of working and is quite good'
<danfish> anywho, enjoy the weather all :) Off to work time :(
<MooDoo> hello
<shauno> mornin
<diplo> Morning
<smittix> Mornin
<smittix> can anyone find this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/749660
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad(https://launchpad.net) bug 749660 not found
<smittix> Weird, Submitted a bug last night and got a reply saying it was a duplicate with the above.
<smittix> and it doesnt exist
<DJones> G'Day
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've not used Natty yet - is this a reasonably accurate precis so far? http://journalxtra.com/2011/04/ubuntu-11-04-what-have-they-done/
<MartijnVdS> imho, yes
<Tommeh> Yes, but you can just switch to Ubuntu Classic
<Tommeh> And then it looks/works mostly like 10.10 :)
<MartijnVdS> Except for the #@( global menu
<Tommeh> Ah, he says this at the bottom.
<Tommeh> ... And you can't re-arrange items on the task switcher
<Tommeh> -10 points for not allowing my compulsive behaviour :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jeez - that sounds like a pile of poo.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Hence my switch to xubuntu
<MartijnVdS> Tommeh: But the design team is god, and knows everything better than you!
<MartijnVdS> Tommeh: they're professionals! trust them!
<Tommeh> Heh
<Tommeh> To be fair to them, IMO, they've made some risky changes in the past and it's turned out for the better.
<Tommeh> Some people hate change .. Me, I'm on the fence about Unity. If I could have an easier way to switch workspaces I'd be using it.
<MartijnVdS> The titlebar buttons you mean?
<Tommeh> Things like libnotify
<Tommeh> I remember it was 'risky' to not allow them to be closed/removed, etc.
<DJones> When I ran it on a liveusb at the weekend, I was quite impressed, it looked quite clean & worked otb, the only problem I had was the installer crashing out & failing to install grub
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: I quite liked Unity. I even filed a bug to that effect :P
<Tommeh> It'll be like marmite for a while :)
<Tommeh> Even if it's not polished-up in this release, they'll be working on making it suit.
<DJones> Whats the saying, "Time is a great healer", as people get used to it and the experience improves, I'm sure people will get used to it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tommeh: "an easier way to switch workspaces..." What is the problem here then?
<oimon> ali1234: ping
<wintellect> Mornin campers
<Tommeh> TheOpenSourcerer: I have to open the thing on the left to change workspaces
<Tommeh> And even then you have to wait for it to zoom out, select a workspace, zoom in
<MartijnVdS> wintellect: Campers? This isn't an FPS game is it? :P
<Tommeh> Very annoying
<TheOpenSourcerer> Doesn't CTL+ALT+Arrow work?
<Tommeh> I don't want to use my keyboard all the time!
<wintellect> MartijnVdS: :P
<Tommeh> Second person to have said that.
<Tommeh> Sometimes I really don't have both hands on the keyboard...
<Tommeh> So instead of one click to switch workspaces, it's three -- with waiting for transitions in between.
<Tommeh> Makes it very annoying to multi-task across multiple workspaces.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm always running 3 or 4 desktops...
<Tommeh> Good for you :)
<DJones> Tommeh: That won't be problem for men, my wife always says that mem can't do two things at once
<DJones> s/mem/men
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes and shuts every window that isn't the current focus of my attention to please DJones ' wife
<DJones> Heh
<hoover> good mornin
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hang on, haven't finished yet.
<TheOpenSourcerer> :P
<DJones> Although I think her idea of multi-tasking is, sitting on the couch, watching tv & playing on facebook
 * DJones checks to make sure she hasn't joined the channel to see what I talk about
<MooDoo> popey: just speaking to markdude who sends his regards :)
<popey> morning all
<popey> MooDoo: in real life?
<kazade> good morning everyone! How are you all today?
<MooDoo> popey: no, fedora-ambassadors IRc
<TheOpenSourcerer> last night I created my daily zsync script for natty. Am now going to test the desktop in VBox, see if it is bad as it sounds.
<popey> ah
<MooDoo> popey: he mentioned chickens :)
<popey> has he left Ubuntu to join Fedora then?
<MooDoo> popey: no idea, i've always seen him in that channel
<oimon> Tommeh: i joine the convo late, are you speaking of gnome shell, unity, or both?
<Tommeh> With respect to what?
<Tommeh> A lack of simple workspace switching?
<oimon> yep
<TheOpenSourcerer> The installer is nice. Like the way it does stuff in the background whilst you fill out the other info.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> Tommeh: enable the thing that lets you switch workspace by nudging the mouse against the edge of the screen?
<Tommeh> That's one idea, but in the past I've tried using similar things with compiz and it's just driven me mad due to hitting it by accident :(
<Tommeh> However I'd like a simple workspace switcher, as I have now
<Tommeh> Click, switch, click, switch.
<bigcalm> I'm a secret lemonade drinker
<bigcalm> Don't know why you made me think of that
 * TheOpenSourcerer attempts to not say "R-Whites" 
<bigcalm> Too late :D
<oimon> Tommeh: i suggest you raise a feature request for right click on workspace switcher to show a quicklist of all desktops , then the process is right click workspace switcher, choose desktop number
<popey> that would work nicely
 * popey pokes gord 
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is because there is no bottom panel any more and no workspace display in the bottom right?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Argh
<popey> i never used that switcher
<popey> too hard to hit
<bigcalm> I used to enjoy holding alt and scrolling the scroll wheel to change desktops
<popey> yeah, i use that
<TheOpenSourcerer> I tend to use CTL+ALT+>
<bigcalm> Doesn't work in Windows :D
<popey> i usually use CTRL+ALT+arrows tbh though
<popey> because thats not far from where my hands rest anyway
<bigcalm> My left hand naturally rests on wasd :(
 * oimon looks down and sees his left hand on sdf
 * TheOpenSourcerer doesn't even ponder where bigcalm 's right would be resting ;-)
<oimon> returns his pinky to the a key
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: it would squeek if it could
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<gord> oimon, bring it up on ayatana list or file a feature request bug, can't do it for this cycle sorry
<HazRPG> \o
<MartijnVdS> \o hazman
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: how's it going?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: We've just moved a big project to Debian at work :)
<oimon> \o/
<HazRPG> seems my body has gone back in sync with normal times again... although I can see it going out of wack again in a few days time
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: \o/ score!
<bigcalm> I hope it wasn't from Ubuntu to Debian
<HazRPG> I've just downloaded natty alt + desktop in both i386 and amd64 \o/
<HazRPG> I'll keep those seeding for a week or so :)
<HazRPG> I think I should learn the ol' bzr I think... upload my code recipe to it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> HazRPG: I use a zsync script to update all 6 daily Natty isos overnight
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: ooo, how does that work exactly?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<HazRPG> does that just download the new bits?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hang on I'll paste the script
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/590121/
<HazRPG> heh typical... the day I want to use LaunchPad and its down for maintenance :P
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: nice :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just run that in the background overnight the first time to get all the isos then when it runs later it just gets the differences.
<HazRPG> nice :)
<HazRPG> much thanks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, Natty fails to boot now I've installed the Guest Editions. Hangs at "Checking battery state..."
<HazRPG> bug report \o/
<bigcalm> Distro change!
<HazRPG> xD
<TheOpenSourcerer> Does holding down the shift key work in VBox to get to the grub menu usually? Isn't working for me right now
<HazRPG> wow, I've managed to seed a ratio of 0.80 of Wikipedia Feb 2011! >_<
<bigcalm> HazRPG: a lot of data?
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: erm, make sure the screen has grabbed your mouse by clicking on it first before you hold shift... otherwise it won't work I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> To answer my own question - YES. But you have to be quick.
<HazRPG> bigcalm: Well it's the whole of wikipedia up until feb 2011! (about 6.5GB tarballed)
<bigcalm> That all? My goodness
<HazRPG> just the english wiki, without images
<bigcalm> Ah, ok
<bigcalm> Text compresses well
<HazRPG> it extracts out of the tarball as 11.4GB
<HazRPG> although that's a WikiTaxi file... so even that could be compressed too
<bigcalm> Does it include discussions and revisions?
<HazRPG> bigcalm: ah, here we go... it uncompresses to 27GB
<HazRPG> no, just current revisions
<HazRPG> all revisions, all pages is a ~31GB 7z file (uncompresses to over 5TB)
<HazRPG> or a bz2 ~280GB file
<HazRPG> bigcalm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
<bigcalm> Funky
<HazRPG> wow the arabic one isn't as big :S
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: would zsync work with .bz2 files :P?
<HazRPG> ah maybe not cos they don't have a zsync file
<HazRPG> (reading through the pastebin)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm The daily Natty Desktop 64bit won't start in VBox for me. Was OK until I installed the Guest Editions to get 3D. Now bored, will go and do proper work instead.
<HazRPG> heh :P
<popey> hah
<HazRPG> just updated my LP to have my wiki on it now :)
<HazRPG> I wish there was a way to have under languages English first then Arabic... because English is my 1st language, not arabic lol
<gord> nice, gmail was saying i had -1 messages ;)
<smittix> Wow, I just tried Gnome3
<shauno> all the zero-inbox nuts will be jealous :)
<jpds> gord: Have you been reading your email before receiving it?
<directhex> smittix, and you gazed into the very heart of darkness?
<smittix> directhex: Actually I thought it was a pleasant experience.
<bigcalm> I'm actually looking forward to seeing a complete and fully opperational deathst^Wunity
<bigcalm> Missquoted *sigh*
<jonsaint> hi all. just installed ubuntu on a dell inspiron mini. problem i got is that i got the wifi to work with my router but after 5 mins of being connected, it kicked me off and now i cant reconnect again despite having all the right details put in. any advice??
<davmor2> morning all
<jonsaint> anyone????
<X3N> jonsaint: do you know which drivers you are using for wifi? iirc there are two available, you can cehck by going to system > administration > aditional drivers
<jonsaint> just looking
<jonsaint> X3N, its brought 2 up, broadcom b43 wireless driver and a broadcom sta proprietary wireless driver with the first one active
<X3N> try switching to the proprietary driver
<X3N> you may need to plug into the wired to download the driver if you don't already have it
<jonsaint> yeah doing hat now to see if it works
<jonsaint> just doing a restart on it to see what happens
<davmor2> jonsaint: the b43 driver sucks you need to use the sta one
<jonsaint> just trying that one now
<jonsaint> its saying wireless networks disconnected
<jonsaint> i even got the windows wireless drivers thing added from the software centre
<HazRPG> davmor2: morning dude
<davmor2> jonsaint: have you tried connecting to a wireless connection
<davmor2> HazRPG: morning
<oo> Hey guys & gals i need a suggestion
<jonsaint> davmor2, yeah i was connected at first for about 5 mins then it suddenly went off and not been able to connect since
<oo> I got this computer a while back and i'm in the process of migrating the old system (windows xp) over to ubuntu
<HazRPG> do many people here use jabber.org?
<oo> I need to import the pictures, music, videos and docs from xp to ubuntu
<oo> Problem is, xp is currently sitting on 70gb and ubuntu has 6gb assigned to it (hd is 76gb), what would you say is the best way to approace this?
<oo> At the moment i'm slowly shrking the xp partition and slowly cutting things from xp to ubuntu as i used ntfs-config to get the drive writable in ubuntu
<oo> But it's slow as heck
<bigcalm> oo: copy data to an external drive. Delete the windows partition. Resize unbuntu partition to fill the gap
<oo> Damn i knew i'd have to go digging for an external drive lol
<bigcalm> Or CDs/DVDs
<oo> The cd drive on this pc is buggered so the only way i could install ubuntu was via wubi
<oo> Usb booting isn't supported on this computer ;( (Well, i've never got it to work!)
<bigcalm> You are having a fun time with it then :D
<oo> Oh i don't mind i'm tempted to use nab my brothers hd lol
<davmor2> czajkowski: somebody kidnapped you last night,  I went to insult you and there you were gone I'm glad you're back you muppet :)
<oo> I gave it to him in the first place (he's got 150gb free) it's a 250gb drive
<oo> My drive is 76gb (sobs)
<oo> My video folder alone is 20gb
<HazRPG> brb updating pidgin
<oimon> HazRPG: just checked my pidgin on lucid and i'm on v2.6.6  - worth upgrading?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: still not using irssi then?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: nope lol
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Empathy > * for IM, irssi > * for irc
<HazRPG> oimon: erm... considering its 2.7.11 I'd say so :P
<HazRPG> oimon: depends what you use it for
<oimon> gmail chat and irc
<oimon> trawling the changelogs but can't see much in terms of features
<oimon> mainly bugfixes
<HazRPG> erm... its up to you then, I'd do it for the patches for bugfixes and protocol changes
<HazRPG> things like MSN, Yahoo, and I think Jabber have changed a fair bit over that time
<HazRPG> I prefer to be up-to-date
<HazRPG> but that's me ^^
 * oimon adds yet another PPA to his system
<shauno> grrrrrrr lp :/
<HazRPG> ppa:pidgin-developers/ppa is for pidgin
<oimon> i'm there :P
<HazRPG> :)
<HazRPG> it always shocks me how things like pidgin never get updated on older ubuntu's
<shauno> can't figure out for the life of me how to submit a bug against the kernel in launchpad :/
<oimon> never felt the need to try empathy when pidgin works
<HazRPG> esp. since those are things with protocols that always changes
<oimon> 2.6.6 is 14 months old
<oimon> LTS without PPA would be lame
<HazRPG> shauno: which kernel?
<shauno> no idea, I can't boot a live system
<shauno> I'm not sure it's meant to be filed against a package when it's the installer's kernel
<HazRPG> shauno: try: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
<oimon> HazRPG: now on 2.7.11 :P
<HazRPG> oimon: \o/
<shauno> that tries to send me to bugzilla.kernel.org
<oimon> i never think to upgrade stuff when apt-get does things for me
<HazRPG> oimon: I do when it involves programs that rely on their own protocols
<HazRPG> I recall back in the ol' 9.04 - 9.10 days, pidgin wouldn't connect to any of my accounts (except irc) because the protocols in question had dropped support for older versions
<HazRPG> I think pidgin are always a version or two behind things like msn
<HazRPG> because MSN protocol is currently v19
<HazRPG> and I think pidgin is using MSNP14
<HazRPG> (even the most recent)
<HazRPG> msn drop support for protocols whenever they release a completely new one, because they want people to use their most greatest (and resource hungry) application
<MartijnVdS> \o/ gtalk/xmpp
<bigcalm> \o/ telephone
 * DJones drops support/consideration for msn
<shauno> I think I've managed to move everyone worth talking to to gtalk.  except my parents :/
<bigcalm> I'm stuck using skype as that's what most of my clients use
<bigcalm> Business needs take priority
<gord> i use skype/gtalk/facebook chat (its just jabber) - works out fine
<directhex> my company is a major force in xmpp, so...
<gord> i still don't know much about xmpp, apart from that it seems quite versatile
<HazRPG> shauno: lucky git, I've been trying for years :(
<oimon> skype desktop sharing for ubuntu - any good?
<HazRPG> oimon: erm I tried it about a year ago and it works quite well
<oimon> gets round NAT firewalls?
<directhex> we use xmpp desktop sharing at work
<HazRPG> probably works better now
<HazRPG> directhex: xmpp has desktop sharing :o
<HazRPG> ??*
<directhex> HazRPG, well, empathy does. not sure what it uses on the back-end
<directhex> probably tubes
<HazRPG> I think empathy needs a few things added to it before I consider using it myself
<HazRPG> I like its clean interface, but it just lacks a few things for irc, etc
<HazRPG> woot! I have jabber account now \o/
 * popey wonders who 85.82.194.254 is
<popey> they seem to be poking ubuntu-uk podcast server every second
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hViWJ35GXr8 shell looks more familiar every time i see videos of it..
<oo> Scary times ran outta space :/
 * HazRPG goes to whois
<HazRPG> popey: denmark?
<HazRPG> apparently
 * HazRPG goes to update his LP with his jabber
<oo> jabber :D
<HazRPG> ah, there we go, my LP feels so much more complete now :D
<HazRPG> oo: Well I don't want spam in my gmail ;)
<HazRPG> already get enough of that as it is :P
<oo> eah i agree, i try to keep my gmail as clean as possible
<oo> It got overun by some stupid music advertiser recently though :/
<popey> "Inbox (2892)"
<popey> "You are currently using 3247 MB (42 %) of your 7567 MB."
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> select all -> delete
<popey> s/delete/archive
<oo> crikey i think i have about that many messages but i'm using about 1% lol
<HazRPG> "Inbox (372)" here
<oo> Forever noattachements :(
<shauno> my idea of a tidy gmail is simply not missing anyone who should be getting paid
<HazRPG> "0.9Â GB (3%) of 27.4Â GB"
<dogmatic69> 'Woohoo! You've read all the important messages in your inbox.'
<bigcalm> Wifi is depressing. scp a file from a client to my dev server at 1.9mb/s. scp that same file from the dev server to my laptop at 1.1mb/s :(
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: beat 'You are currently using 472 MB (6 %) of your 7569 MB.'
<gord> get some N wifi?
<oo> Can't wait till flapping my arms around like a chicken composes a new email with the new google motion ;)
<HazRPG> Yeah I have 20GB extra because it was cheap, and I needed it for my picasaweb account
<dwatkins> I suspect wifi is indeed to blame, but are you sure it's the bottleneck, bigcalm?
<oimon> arrgh my funds appeared in my account 1 day late for the ISA deadline :(
<dogmatic69> oimon: unlucky
<bigcalm> dev server is on wifi (revo under the tv), laptop is also on wifi. Maybe that's the issue
<bigcalm> oimon: sue hsbc
<oimon> sue everybody :)
<shauno> this is why no-one uses 16bit busses anymore
<oimon> it's everyone elses fault except for this numpty who left it a bit late ;)
<popey> 32 bits of a bus
<oo> Urgh hsbc
<popey> (c) Compaq / Jon Cleese
<bigcalm> Humm, it is. I just plugged the laptop into the router and the same file scp'd at 2.7mb/s
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Anyone know WTF this means?...
<TheOpenSourcerer> SSLError: [Errno 336265218] _ssl.c:337: error:140B0002:SSL routines:SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file:system lib
<bigcalm> I should move the dev server into the office. Can't remember the last time it was actually used with the tv
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: sounds like your private key file isn't one
<oo> Lol i went in the pub the other day and accidently got out my wrong passport and showed them my passport that expired in 2000, the picture in it was when i was 5 years old, needless to say I got my drink :)
<oimon> oo: which country are you in?
<HazRPG> hmm, I wonder why LP is hiding my jabber account
<dwatkins> What is LP, HazRPG?
<oo> United Kingdom
<HazRPG> dwatkins: LaunchPad
<dwatkins> ahh
<oimon> passports to buy beer nowadays :S i wouldn't even know where to find my passport
<oo> No i didn't buy beer with my passport
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm. MartijnVdS - I just created the things. Thought it was a permissions issue but the server process owner can read both the key and the cert.
<oo> lol, they asked my for identity to prove i was over 18
<Laney> you carry around an 11-year out of date passport?!
<bigcalm> Oh too look young again
<oimon> people are always surprised when they find out i am in my mid 30s..they think i am 20 something
<oo> Not usually no, but I had it on me then
<oo> When i cut my hair i lost a few years
<oo> Amazing what long hair can do
<DJones> ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH....Channel 5 are paying for 2 new series of big brother
<oo> Why didn't that tv show die years ago?
<bigcalm> My fiancee, who is 39 next month, hates it when she's asked for ID. Personally I'd take it as a compliment
<oo> Yeah same i'm quite irritated by being asked for id
<oo> But then again i'm 20, clean shaved not the tallest either ;)
<oimon> i used to get ID'd when with a big group of lads..not very confiedence building
<oimon> at least i still have my own hair compared to the boys with hair on their chests at 14
<oo> Lol :P I've been wanting to grow a small neat beard for ages
<bigcalm> Grow a big bushy beard
<oimon> i discovered something that they never teach you at school the other day.
<oo> But i haven't got enough hair follicles under my chin yet, it would be a patchwork mess
<oo> Was anyone else unable to grow a decent beard at 20? It's quite a pain
<oo> Wondering when i actually can..
<oimon> pick the 3 spoddiest girls from your year/class at school, and check them out at 35. invariably they have become beautiful and successful/talented
<popey> o_O
<oo> Got to agree oimon, not the case all the time but alot of the time yeah
<oo> My friend lost 6 stone, quite a transformation, she was good looking anyway but what a stunner when all that was lost
<oimon> meanwhile a lot of the "attractive" girls that all the lads fancied are still single and body clocks ticking
<bigcalm> http://cuth.eu/beard <- me at 29
<Laney> nice robe
<bigcalm> Cheers, M&S finest
<oimon> did anyone see the programme on bbc the other day about the guy whose english step-brother had become an islamist extremist?
<shauno> no wizzard hat :(
<oo> You've got a decent head of hair for 29
<oimon> had the most disgusting beard i'd ever seen
<oo> One of my friends (19) is in the developing stages of mpb
<bigcalm> oo: and 3 years later I still do ;)
<oimon> http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2011/04/04/article-1301921345820-0B70595C00000578-210079_636x300.jpg
<bigcalm> Wow
<oo> How long d'ya reckon he's had this beard for? http://swick.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Weird%20Beards/Beard%202_Icy.jpg
<oo> One can only dream of a beard like this: http://swick.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Weird%20Beards/Beard%208_Full%20Face.jpg
<oimon> i think those men are single.
 * oimon goes to clear his firefox cache
<Myrtti> I wish I don't inherit my mums high hairline, it's a bit weird looking at times
<shauno> that's awesome.  zz-tip tucked into your sunnies
<shauno> er, *top
<oo> I wish i had a hairline
<oo> I can never brish my hair properly because i can't find it!
<oimon> when i had long hair, women would stop me and ask for tips on keeping it in good condition :o|
<Myrtti> she reminds reverend mother helen mohiam from the dune movie at times
<oo> ^ same
<shauno> heh, I had that.  never had any idea what to tell them either
<oo> To be honest i found using nothing but the bare essentials, no hair masks, yada yada was the best way to keep it in the best condition
<Myrtti> not dying it every two months helps
<shauno> I think that's the trick.  don't drown it in chemicals and see what it's capable of doing for itself
<oo> ^ I tried explaining that to my girlfriend
<bigcalm> popey: 1/7 :O
<oo> But it's harder said than done
<shauno> I tried dying mine once.  it was meant to go black, and came out blue.  nevar again.
<Myrtti> or washing every day, every other day is the max... mine goes all hemp if I wash too often
<oo> I get greasy hair fast, i have to wash it daily :(
<shauno> now I just shave it off whenever I notice it's back.  problem solved :)
<oo> Don't suit skinhead
<Myrtti> it might get greasy so fast because you wash it so much ;-)
<oo> Haven't got the right shape of face
<Myrtti> I should have a good inch or two cut
<oo> This could be true
<directhex> my grandad died with a full head of hair. my dad's in his 60s without any hair loss. things could be worse.
<popey> hehe bigcalm
<shauno> why do redhat keep trying to sell me training :/  I assume they've seen their own prices
<oimon> bigcalm: what's that code you're trading with popey?
<Myrtti> I'm happy the chemo hasn't taken mums hair, she has almost as much good condition hair as I do
<popey> oimon: see my latest tweet
<oimon> 7/7 :)
<Myrtti> I don't even know how much first class stamp is here, even less UK... futile
<oimon> wonder if popey's tweets should get plumbed straight into the channel for clarity :P
<Pendulum> Myrtti: I made an guess (and was correct)
<oo> Bought some yesterday, Â£5:12 for a pack of 12 first class, they rose 5p today
<Pendulum> popey: I should have actually outscored you on that, but I hit a wrong button on one of answers so we ended up even ;-)
<oimon> man, it sucks how slow servers do their POST checks :(
<oimon> 5 mins of waiting around
<directhex> POST on desktops is pretty useless, though. "is there a cpu/ good enough. BOOT FASTOR!"
<shauno> not sure anyone actually wants to see their bios crawl thru their ram anymore
<popey> who reboots?
<shauno> it was cute when I had 8Mb.  now, not so much
<oimon> i had just removed RAM, so it stuck half way for me to press F1 too :(
<oimon> machine hasn't come up so i have to go back in the cold room :(
<bigcalm> I fear that today might be a sub day
 * bigcalm slithers off to feed himself
<oo> What the hell is eating up all the space
<oo> I had 4gb free 5 mins ago, now 0bytes free, i'm screwed when i logout
<shauno> dark matter
<popey> moomins
<oimon> HazRPG: do you use docky? my pidgin docklet helper thing doesn't tell me how many unread lines in the conversation now:(
<popey> i blame HP printers
<oo> 41kb free space
<HazRPG> oimon: no I don't
<shauno> last I heard you were trying to shuttle data between partitions & externals? is there a chance you got the destination wrong for a copy?
<oo> No everything going direct to the external hardrive from the windows xp parition
 * popey tickles gmb
<oo> Is there a command where i can view whats takin up what and lists it by size?
<popey> yes
<popey> du -hs /
<popey> but easier to run the disk space analyser
<popey> which is in the accesories menu
<oo> du is running now, i haven't got that disk space analyser
<popey> how come?
<popey> not ubuntu?
<oo> It was originally unitl i removed gnome and put lxde on it
<oo> My computer simply can't handle gnome
<oo> 512mb ram
<popey> oimon: look in /var/log
<popey> any big files in there?
<popey> du -hs /var/log
<oo> sugar
<oo> popey is there a way to exclude a directory
<popey> from what?
<davmor2> popey: did you pull the plug out of the ocean?
<dwatkins>        -x, --one-file-system
<dwatkins>               skip directories on different file systems
<oo> Uh oh, everythings starting to go wrong
 * gmb hugs popey
<dwatkins> is that what you need, oo?
<oo> I didn't get any of the last responses, xchat crashed
<oo> And again..
<oo> Well i just made 580mb by moving my pictures folder onto the xp paritition, that was the only thing in my linux partition
<oo> I really didn't want to do that as i can't afford to lose them
<jonsaint> hi all. why do i keep getting package operation failed when i try to install smething from the software centre?
<MartijnVdS> Minecrafters: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gjrf4/iama_indie_game_developer_who_made_a_commercially/
<gord> oh yeah, graze sent me chocolate
<oimon> returning to pidgin v2.6.6 and reminding himself not to fiddle with things that work
<HazRPG> oimon: it could just be docky needs updating too
<oimon> HazRPG:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/dockmanager/+bug/740168
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 740168 in DockManager "Pidgin Helper not showing unread messages" [Undecided,New]
<gord> actually a honeycomb flapjack with chocolate, you are all jealous :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: bleugh
<oimon> HazRPG: possibly, but that might break something else :P
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that's fantastic.  "You seemed to have combined the best parts of LEGO and Heroin together."5
<oimon> It seems that the method used in the helper, "PurpleConversationGetData" isn't exported through DBUS by pidgin anymore.
<HazRPG> oimon: ah, I wonder why
<oimon> i'm surprised that others don't use this - how else can you see the number of unread lines in irc/pidgin?
<jonsaint> help! wifi problem
<oimon> yay works again. now starting to worry that unity launcher might not show this ...
<HazRPG> question about bzr: do I do, bzr whoami "My Name <email@address.domain>", or, bzr whoami "LaunchPad.Name <email@address.domain>" ?
<oo> At last: The moving is complete
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: bzr help whoami
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it haz exampleses!
<jonsaint> anyone help for wifi problem??
<czajkowski> ivanka: ping
<ivanka> czajkowski: you caught me with purse in hand heading for lunch - how may I help you?
<czajkowski> ivanka: is the logo wrong I have on my twibbon?
<czajkowski> or did you find out who loaded it up ?
<ivanka> czajkowski: no it isn't. I didn't find who loaded it. I just thought that if we did find who loaded it we could make it into generic ubuntu rather than 10.04
<czajkowski> nods
<ivanka> czajkowski: I think we could get better  bigger number with a "we are ubuntu" than with a release specifica
<czajkowski> aye I agree
<ivanka> czajkowski: would help if it were administered by some person (or people) who can tinker when needed
<czajkowski> yeah the thing is anyone can upload any image :)
<czajkowski> ivanka: contact twibbbon and ask them can they remove 10.04
<ivanka> czajkowski: good idea! will see what I can do
<czajkowski> enjoy lunch
<ivanka> czajkowski: anyway - this has become my little side project this week rather randomly :-)
<ivanka> czajkowski: I will!
<jonsaint> anyone??? help!
<czajkowski> sorry about that
<czajkowski> I blame iaian he pointed out I had the old one
<jonsaint> dont anyone know about wifi and drivers?
<diplo> jonsaint, just hang around it's lunch time.
<diplo> If someone can help they will
<jonsaint> cheers
<jonsaint> il pop back laters
<czajkowski> jonsaint: just ask your question and if people can help they will
<diplo> I'd stay connected jonsaint
<diplo> People will message you in here
<jonsaint> keep getting system error: install archives failed on everything i try
<oo> does gparted list the ubuntu partition or just any other partitions and hides ubuntus one
<popey> czajkowski: is it really our place to tell twibbon what logos to host?
<popey> (I think not)
<czajkowski> popey: no I'm not saying that...
<popey> 13:06:37 < czajkowski> ivanka: contact twibbbon and ask them can they remove 10.04
<czajkowski> popey: just the word
<czajkowski> the twibbon is perfect rather than uploading the same image again
<czajkowski> it was just an idea
<czajkowski> to remove the word after it to make it generic
<popey> ah
<czajkowski> I perhaps didnt explain myself very well
<gord> grr, if letter boxes were bigger then graze could send me more tastier stuff. royal mail ruins everything!
<oimon> gord: how about a note on the parcel: leave on doorstep/neighbour/behind plant
<oo> Anyone know much about gparted?
<popey> oo: wassup?
<oo> I installed ubuntu via wubi
<oo> I've just nuked xp after copying everything off it so there's 76gb of space i need to give ubuntu
<popey> eh
<oo> Well, i need to give ubuntu the entire hd space now
<popey> you re-installing?
<oo> No, i'm on ubuntu now, i've just wiped so i have 76gb of space free
<oo> How do i resize my ubuntu partition to make use of that free space
<oo> I can't see ubuntu in my partition list
<popey> uhm, hang on
<popey> so you started with a disk that had windows on it, and installed ubuntu to a file inside that windows partition
<popey> yes?
<oo> Well, i installed it via wubi
<popey> ok
<oo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/590215/ < sudo fdisk -l
<popey> so that will give you a file inside your windows partition
<popey> containing ubuntu
<popey> are you currently booted to the ubuntu install that was done with wubi, or a live cd?
<HazRPG> I just uploaded my first lot of code to launchpad \o/
<oimon> \o/
<oo> Currently booted, using it now
<popey> HazRPG: are the words "hello" and "world" featured?
<popey> oo: and you have done what exactly to windows?
<HazRPG> popey: nope, it's a recipe for Calibre ;)
<HazRPG> its the first of hopefully many that will help get some arabic support into Calibre :D
<oo> Killed it, it's the whole ntfs partition is empty
<popey> that ntfs partition _contained_ your ubuntu install
<oo> I dreaded that
<HazRPG> since it doesn't handle arabic well, I'm planning on reporting some bugs to calibre
<oo> Oh fu...
<HazRPG> yet it seems to handle other RTL languages...
<oo> So as soon as i shutdown/reboot and attempt to start it up again i'm royally screwed?
<popey> almost certainly, yes
<oo> Shoot me now
<popey> *blam*
 * popey reloads
<popey> *blam* *blam*
 * DJones throws a grenade over
<oo> I'm screwed, no cd drive, no usb booting, floppy drive, and two gunshot and a grenade wound
<popey> do you have a usb disk handy?
<X3N> incase anyone is in london and interested: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-uk-list/2011-April/msg00000.html
<X3N> *in case
<oo> Yes
<popey> plug it in and copy your data off?
<oo> My datas safe, i have no viable way of getting ubuntu back on the computer though :/
<oo> I backed that up before i nuked xp
<popey> ah
<oo> I guess i shouldn't even wonder into the install via floppy disk method?
<DJones> oo: Can you take the drive out and put it in another computer to install onto
<dwatkins> oo: how did you install initially?
<popey> he used wubi
<oo> Windows was put on there when the cd drive worked
<dwatkins> oh right, I assume the motherboard doesn't support USB booting, from what you say
<oo> not too sure i've never got it to work
<oo> http://uk.ts.fujitsu.com/rl/servicesupport/techsupport/professionalpc/Scenic/ScenicC/scenicC.htm < My computer
<dwatkins> is replacing the CD drive possible?
<oimon> X3N: that's a good pub
<DJones> oo: http://uk.ts.fujitsu.com/rl/servicesupport/techsupport/professionalpc/FAQ/USB_BIOSUpdate.pdf suggests that USB boot should work
<X3N> oimon: yes, yes it is :)
<oo> Well i've just got a cd drive, my brother wont notice
<oimon> X3N: don't bump your head though
<X3N> one of the few advantages of not being tall :)
<DJones> oo: Press F2 during boot to get into boot to get into bios and have a look for a boot order selection
<oo> Yeah i've fond that in the past
<oo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/590216/ < Only bootable options when going to the boot order
<oimon> maybe wubi installer should include an option to upgrade an existing wubi install to a dedicated partition
<DJones> On machines I've got, usb boot normally only appears if it finds a bootable usb stick inserted though, or hard disk drive has a sub setting for a physical hdd and a 2nd one for USB drive
<oo> If it actually is bootable then i could try again
<oo> The motherboard is a D1544 by Fujitsu
<oo> http://uk.ts.fujitsu.com/rl/servicesupport/techsupport/Boards/Motherboards/Fujitsu/D1544/D1544.htm < tech info
<HazRPG> hi ho hi ho... its off to town I go
<HazRPG> catch ya later guys
<oo> Cya
<DJones> oo: Looking at the boot order from that page, it only lists floppy/HDD/CD/Network boot
<dwatkins> network boot.... hmmm
<dwatkins> oo: do you have another machine on which you could either install linux or boot from CD and use as a network server, that might be an option but it's not easy.
<popey> I'd just yank the disk out and slam it in another machine
<popey> much less effort IMO
<popey> (assuming you have another machine)
<oimon> or borrow a CD drive
<oimon> i give away machines that are newer than that ..where are you?
<oo> Kent
<oo> I'll try that option in a sec popey once the hd is gone i go lol
<oimon> have about 20 dimension 2400/3000 to offload onto students who already blew their cash on idevices
<oo> I'm not a student atm, just not in a greast situation atm :/
<oo> If you want to see how the computer running right now this is it: http://i.imgur.com/egfry.jpg
<hamitron> HMRC suck :/
<shauno> uhoh .. what'd they do you for?
<hamitron> nothing
<hamitron> but I am getting a lot of phone calls for support, for the end of year
<hamitron> seems their servers can't handle it, and my clients always bug me first
<shauno> ah
<hamitron> one of my clients loves it though
<hamitron> he thinks it is great 70+ employee are going to get their wages delayed
<hamitron> hehe
<oimon> hmm
<dwatkins> I suppose I should do my self-assessment with HMRC.
<oimon> umm dwatkins wasn't that due in jan?
<dwatkins> oimon: yeah
<dwatkins> I didnt get the letter for ages because I've moved house
<oimon> doh
<oimon> i owed them 34p
<dwatkins> I was told I didn't need to do it last year, then they sent me a letter anyway, then a fine
<dwatkins> hopefully they owe me money which might mean I don't have to pay, but I've never done it before, so am at a loss about the process, need to read-up on how to fill the forms out
<hamitron> I just pay someone to do mine
<popey> http://www.geteasypeasy.com/ - "Millions of people worldwide use the EasyPeasy Operating System to make their netbook a lean, mean surfing machine."
<popey> *millions*
<popey> wonder how they measure that
<dwatkins> hamitron: I think I probably should do that also
<hamitron> millions of trillions or whoopyllions
<oimon> popey: i hear apple make more ludicrous claims :P
<popey> they can be backed up with sales data
<hamitron> dwatkins: costs me Â£20 every quarter
<hamitron> well worth it :)
<hamitron> and the girl who does them is rather pleasing to the eye
<oimon> popey: ahem http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/03/steve-jobs-reality-distortion-takes-its-toll-on-truth/
<dwatkins> blimey, hamitron - what kind of company is that which you use?
<dwatkins> please excuse my ancient profanity
<hamitron> she does it self employed
<hamitron> Â£10 per hour
<oimon> chinese sweatshop?
<dwatkins> superb
<dwatkins> I imagine it's easy for someone who knows what information is required etc.
<oo> I'll see you lot later
<hamitron> that Â£20 includes the organising of my books too
<oo> Turning of the computer now, god knows when i'll be back
<dwatkins> good luck, oo
<bigcalm> Good luck oo
<hamitron> she is a saint to put up with my record keeping ;)
<oimon> oo: did anyone suggest a dd over the network?
<oo> no?
<hamitron> talking of tablets
<hamitron> http://www.maplin.co.uk/viewpad-7-touch-tablet-511340?&c=maplin&u=maplinnewsletter&utm_source=banners&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=newsletterproducts&utm_campaign=maplin
<oimon> oo: are you on the machine that is broken, and do you need to keep any data?
<oo> TO be honest i think i'm going to try popey's suggestion and put the hardrive in something else and try installing it that way
<oo> No i;ve backed up all the data
<oo> Lol this is the machine: http://i.imgur.com/egfry.jpg
<oimon> oo: yes, that's easier solution - i won't complicate things
<oo> No working cd drive, floppy drive only, can't boot from usb
<oimon> except you could extract the live cd onto a 1gb partition and make it bootable
<dwatkins> oo: yeah, if you can't boot from CD that may be the only way, I just hope the other machine has similar enough hardware it boots ok when you move the disk back
<oo> I'll try figure out a way
<oo> It's riving me a bit mad, im going to go outside for a bit and relax lol
<oo> When i'm next on will be when i've got lubuntu up and running again and it's all going well
<oo> So i'll see you.... in a few years lol :) Cheers for the help!
<oimon> i discovered today that not all 240pin PC2-5300 RAM is the same :(
<oimon> fully buffered ram is different shape :(
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<shauno> 'lo bob
<brobostigon> hi shauno
<xwx> hello good night
<brobostigon> nos da xwx
<xwx> brobostigon: hi?
<brobostigon> xwx: you said good night, i replied with good night in welsh.
<xwx> brobostigon: What are you doing now?
<brobostigon> xwx: playng with google android app inventor
<xwx> brobostigon: I am in China
<brobostigon> ah.
<xwx> brobostigon: And you??
<brobostigon> england.
<xwx> brobostigon: Where are you?
<xwx> oh
<oimon> LOL.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU
<xwx> brobostigon: My english is poor
<brobostigon> xwx: my welsh is aswell, only more practice will help, :)
 * bigcalm shudders at autotune
<oimon> bigcalm: used to good effect here :)
<oimon> watch out for the ray guns
<bigcalm> Still, I can't stand the sound of it
 * bigcalm watches with the sound off
<xwx> brobostigon: Can you speak chinese?
<oimon> bigcalm: the original interview is even funnier..so that's what it's like to only have 1 brain cell
 * hamitron aspires to those with a brain cell
<brobostigon> xwx: none, sorry.
<oimon> xwx is linux popular in china?
<xwx> oimon: no
<oimon> :(
<oimon> not even red flag linux?
 * brobostigon unsubcribes from the gnome-shell mailing list, as he didnt like the way a discussion was going.
<MartijnVdS> RAGEQUIT ;)
<xwx> oimon: what say?
<brobostigon> good afternoon MartijnVdS :9
<oimon> xwx:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux
<brobostigon> :)*
<gord> brobostigon, the fedora one?
<xwx> oimon: I'm a novice at linuxsystem
<brobostigon> gord: gnome's gnome-shell mailing list.
<gord> brobostigon, right, i mean there is a large thread about fedora testing on there
<xwx> oimon: i am using ubuntu system
<brobostigon> gord: that is the one that annoyed me abit.
<xwx> oimon: where are you?
<xwx> oimon: hello?
<jpds> xwx: Probably safe to assume that most of us are in the UK.
<oimon> xwx:  i am in uk, as are most of us, for chinese language forums and irc there are also #ubuntu-cn and http://forum.ubuntu.org.cn/ if you wish
<brobostigon> gord: simply put, some of the views that were expressed, that clearly werent from people who either knew whatthey were talking about, and or, regurgitating other people's views, and not their own.
<xwx> oimon: thanks a lot
<gord> if you have post-its on your monitor with things to do on them, and one falls off. that means you don't have to do it right?
<bigcalm> Yep
<brobostigon> spoton yes, :)
<HippyChick1> depends on how interesting it was...
<shauno> boy I love early shifts.  getting home at 3pm feels like cheating :)
<bigcalm> I used to enjoy late shifts, getting up around 11am was very relaxing
<shauno> the difference between 6-6.30 and 6-2.30 doesn't seem to do the numbers justice
<MooDoo> hullo all
<brobostigon> afternoonings MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> hows natty for stability at the moment?   got a show n tell for our local camera club :)
<brobostigon> with gnome-shell here, its pretty good.
<Tommeh> (Just don't use two monitors.. Then it's confusing)
<MooDoo> laptop to i won't be using monitors
<brobostigon> becareful of gpu lockups, if you have specifc intel gpu's.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: dell studio 1737
<brobostigon> like the one in my eeepc 900.
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/715096
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 715096 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[i945gm] GPU lockup (ESR: 0x00000001 IPEHR: 0x02000011)" [High,Incomplete]
<brobostigon> also interesting are some of its duplicates with different intel gpu's.
<MooDoo> ok i'll have a think
<shauno> I think the safest claim is that it'd be wise to spend some time with it before flashing it around in public :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i havent had a gpu lockup in around a week though, so it may have beem worked out.
<MooDoo> shauno: it's only really to show it off and demonstrate some apps with the photographer in mind, i don't really need natty :)
<shauno> aye, but I wouldn't demo anything else without trying it on first.  just so you're less surprised than they are
<MooDoo> aye thanks :)
<shauno> even if it's death by powerpoint, I want to see it before they do :/
<MooDoo> shauno: i'm only really showing gimp, shotwell and a few raw processing apps
<MooDoo> nothing to over strenuous
<shauno> well, rescuing the old laptop's partition table went flawlessly :D  phew!
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> hmm, why doesnt banshee have something as basic as a graphical equaliser, :(
<brobostigon> ouch, banshee is using 56% of my ram,
<brobostigon> amazing.
<Azelphur> Can Ubuntu server move a process to a different core when that core gets busy?
<Azelphur> IE: I have 8 game servers running on 4 cores, would it be better to taskset each server or let the kernel handle moving the servers to keep everything running smoothly
<MattJ> Not an easy question :)
<Azelphur> Indeed :)
<Azelphur> I saw it when I was running a ruby benchmark on my desktop, the process seemed to hop between a few cores before finishing
<MattJ> Do the processes communicate with each other?
<Azelphur> not at all, entirely separate
<MattJ> Then I don't think it matters much
<gord> let the kernel do its thing
<Azelphur> cool :)
<Azelphur> when one server is full it'll 100% a core, so I assume the kernel would shuffle everything around such that it fits ok
<MattJ> If they did, it could make sense to bind each to its own core, it prevents unnecessary context switching in some cases
<MattJ> You don't have to worry about that :)
<Azelphur> I don't have to worry about full servers? :o
 * Azelphur glares :p
<MattJ> Not until they overheat :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> more worried about lag :p
 * brobostigon shakes fist at xserver-xorg-video-intel
<brobostigon> wow, huge lag :(
<Sr_ubuntu> Hello. How i can create one theme mouse from zero? GNOME.
<ali1234> brobostigon: i tested natty on my 945 system, gpu works ok, but fan never switches on
<ali1234> so gpu lockups could be related to overheating
<ali1234> i think it's broken my battery too
<ali1234> (again)
<brobostigon> ali1234: under normal running, its reporting temperture around 55-59c.
<gord> ali1234, you need a fan for a 945 system?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> when i picked it up it nearly hot enough to burn me
<brobostigon> ali1234: my eeepc never gets that hot,, it would burn me.
<ali1234> probably wouldn't need a fan if you didn't insist on hammering the GPU with flashy effects
<gord> it doesn't need a fan
<gord> i have several fanless 945 systems
<Azelphur> btw popey / HazRPG I was talking to you guys a couple of months ago about a guy DoSing various people and you said I should mail the abuse@ instead of publicly shaming :p
 * ali1234 blames gord for breaking acpi support on i945
<Azelphur> it's been a month now, no reply from comcast abuse :(
<Azelphur> I mailed them packet logs, connection logs, and a list of forum threads from other server admins talking about how to mitigate attacks from the guy
<ali1234> did he stop dosing you?
<Azelphur> probably, I just iptabled him straight away and carried on
<popey> many abuse@ places don't reply at all
<Azelphur> other people running game servers obviously arn't as educated / don't have the access to do that
<popey> they just do what they have to do
<popey> they are under no obligation to contact you back, you're not their customer
<Azelphur> popey: I see, his connection is still up :)
<popey> they may have contacted him
<popey> or may have done nothing
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> most in the US won't do jack without legal threats.  they're too busy taking the front end of the *IAA's abuse to bother worrying about anything they can ignore.
<davmor2> http://richarddawkins.net/articles/612418-texas-beer-joint-sues-church-over-lightning-strike moreati just linked to this it's funny as hell :D
<ali1234> lol... intellectual checkmate
<Azelphur> I did just notice something cool, their domain expires in may
<Azelphur> Wonder if they'll let it expire :)
<ali1234> fake according to snopes
<Azelphur> shauno: \o/
<shauno> I think snopes is fake, myself
<popey> i think shauno is fake, myself
<shauno> (genuinely.  don't trust anything you wrote on the internet, unless snopes writes it on the internet ..?)
<Azelphur> i think popey is fake, myself
<shauno> heh, I'm serious :/
<popey> shauno: snopes tends to have citations
<shauno> they do
<popey> and its not as black and white as you make it out
<shauno> ala http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/spiders.asp
<shauno> cited "PC Professional" magazine doesn't, and has never existed
<popey> see, I dont believe that :)
<popey> http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/news/506300/VNU-favourite-buy-Ziff-Davis-UK-magazines/?DCMP=ILC-SEARCH
<popey> "Ziff-Davis publishes seven titles in continental Europe. PC Professional, PC Direct and Internet Professional published in Germany and PC Expert, PC Direct and Yahoo! Internet Life in France"
<brobostigon> question, do we have any working ocr software?
<popey> that took seconds
<shauno> I believe that was PC Pro, not PC Professional
<shauno> the germans had a PC Professionall too.  neither of them ever had an article by this Lisa Holst tho
<shauno> most of snopes is just alt.folklore.urban rehashed with no actual research.  so citations are just repeated over and over again without ever having existed
<shauno> there's people that have chased these by calling the publishers, the us library of congress, etc.  we just take snopes at face value, while they teach us not to do so
<ali1234> maybe all the people who claim to have done that are just making it up
<ali1234> maybe NOTHING IS REAL OH GOD
<DJones> ali1234: To quote teh rocky horror picture show, "Life is an illusion, reality is a figment of the imagination"
<ali1234> sorry i can't hear you over my existential crisis
<davmor2> DJones: So lets do the timewarp again
<DJones> davmor2: Its just a jump to the left..
<davmor2> ali1234: just pinch yourself if it hurts you're really and therefore the universe is real too
<shauno> unless you don't believe your body is 'you' :)
<shauno> "I think", "i do", but I don't "beat my heart".  my heart beats for me.  where the line between "you" and your body as a possession lays, is never that obvious :)
<shauno> .. I'll go back to mistreating my laptop now.  the transplant is not without some teething problems.
<ali1234> brobostigon: tesseract works
<brobostigon> ali1234: thank you, i was just looking on help.ubuntu.com/community  :)
<Azelphur> http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/04/05/modernized-commodore-64-pc-will-confuse-co-workers/ win :D
<shauno> I can't believe that's actually going anywhere.  commodore usa  have misfired repeatedly trying to sell PCs last few years
<Azelphur> seems quite novel to me :p
<shauno> I keep trying to pick up a tower case from their last attempt to rehouse my a1200, but it's either stupid shipping prices, or flats of 50
<Azelphur> fun
<shauno> aww, they have shots of the amiga models they keep promising now, and they're just boxes :(
<HazRPG> howdy
<brobostigon> good evening HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening
<HazRPG> hmm, that's annoying... apparently my thread on mobileread.com has been looked at 22 times... but no one has commented :S
<brobostigon> :(
<HazRPG> and the one of someone asking for arabic feeds, I commented and uploaded a mobi of the most recent news feeds in arabic, but warned about the issues I was having has been looked at a further ~100 times but no comments... I think people have been downloading it, just not caring the thank or at least help fix problems that's with it :(
<HazRPG> hum-bug :(
<bigcalm> Hi kids
<bigcalm> Waiting and working from hospital
<Pendulum> bigcalm: you okay?
<bigcalm> Pendulum: I'm fine. Visiting Hayley's brother who isn't
<Pendulum> bigcalm: aww :( I hope things get better for him
<shauno> HazRPG: this is the miracle of free software.  mostly, miraculous that people face the onslaught and carry on gifting their time regardless :)
<bigcalm> Left work early to drive us here, but brought my actual laptop this time instead of just my eeepc
<HazRPG> bigcalm: :( *hugs*
<bigcalm> He's on a ventilator and under sedation, so hopefully he's comfortable
<bigcalm> Time to go and have some tea. Taaraa for now
<Azelphur> did anyone solve screen glare yet? XD
<Azelphur> I like my desk being near the window for sunshine and blue skies, but I can't see my damned screen
<HazRPG> Azelphur: screen glare?
 * Azelphur takes photo
<HazRPG> add three flaps to your monitor :)
<HazRPG> top, left, right :)
<HazRPG> that'll solve screen glare ;)
<Tommeh> And take you right back to the 80's, all at the same time.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hey at least I told you how to make it prettier :P
<Azelphur> HazRPG: would work if I wasn't quad screen :P
<HazRPG> Tommeh: i know right!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you did?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: would, depends how far apart they are
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: yes.. ?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/March%202010/IMG_20110406_182439.jpg xD
<Azelphur> they are touching lol
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: # coding=utf-8
<HazRPG> if they're all just next to each other... then same would still apply, except you'd need more cardboard for the top half :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I think one problem is that most people here don't read Arabic very well
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> strategic curtain positioning \o/
<shauno> if you do, love nit picking, and fancy helping, I'm sure there's an i18n team somewhere that'd love to borrow you :)
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, just noticed your comment... I must agree, since I can /read/ arabic (sort of) yet I'm still making recipes regardless xD
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Ireland switched to Arabic? 8-)
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I more meant somewhere in ubuntuland :p
<MartijnVdS> (Irabic?)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah, yes I know what your talking about now :)... yeah I'll be getting that moved over so that it works better like that :)
<shauno> and no, no arabic here.  we're still working on english.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you'll get the hang of it eventually :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.ef.com/epi/ef-epi-ranking/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I have a full length curtain to block out my glare problems :D
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, nit picking, i18n team?
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> I have vertical blinds \o/
<shauno> i18n is Internationalization, but a whole lot easier to type
<shauno> (eg, arabic isn't a skill your stereotypical contributor possesses, and one that could be handy to the right teams :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/n1C_fqyz0Rt8GAWU7j1ZHQ?feat=directlink (picture 1)
<Azelphur> haha
<HazRPG> Azelphur: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nkVPvIS2xXSn2PUqzCBu4w?feat=directlink (picture 2 - closed curtain)
<Azelphur> \o/
<HazRPG> works for me :)
<HazRPG> if I really need the light, I can open the door to the right of me (or to the left if your looking at the picture linked above)... and insta-extra light! (because straight on from that door is the half-glass door to the outside world!
<MartijnVdS> MAGIC!
<MartijnVdS> WITCH!
<Azelphur> ^
<HazRPG> shauno: ah cool, I'm with you now... I might need to further my skill level in arabic reading first :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: that's how I roll, magic is in the blood ;)
<shauno> HazRPG: :)  if you can get by enough to spot where it breaks, good practice & good hunting :)  just a thought
<HazRPG> shauno: indeed!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hmmm... I'm curious as to why Egypt isn't on that link you sent... considering they teach English to all 5 year olds and improve on it as they progress through school
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yet saudi is on there, and I'm pretty sure saudi local schools don't teach english until they're like mid-teens
<fujisan> Hello may i ask a question?
<HazRPG> fujisan: that's what we're here for, fire away
<fujisan> is there a zero tolerance policy against racism in Ubuntu channels?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they might not have run the poll there
<fujisan> i just experienced racism in a dutch ubuntu channel i rebelled against it and i got banned
<fujisan> makes me really sad things like this still happen in the 21st century in ubuntu channels esp.
<fujisan> it happened in a dutch ubuntu channel so i shouldnt be too surprised
<HazRPG> fujisan: as far as I know, no racism is in the code of conduct... so in theory they shouldn't allow it
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: the Dutch ubuntu community was annoying when I left 4 years ago
<fujisan> maybe i overreacted but still
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: it hasn't gotten better..
<fujisan> ye
<Myrtti> interesting...
<fujisan> MartijnVdS unfortunately
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: just report it "up" to the next council
<MartijnVdS> they'll help fix it
<HazRPG> fujisan: we're friendly enough here, so stick around :)
<fujisan> oh ok thanks
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Well, we try to be :)
<brobostigon> definatly, :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: trying is better than *not* at all :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: good point
<fujisan> MartijnVdS i captured it in my comic chat client it's in dutch http://imgur.com/gFbol
<fujisan> supposedly it was a joke but i didnt find it funny
<HazRPG> fujisan: haha winner! I haven't seen microsoft chat in since back in the win98 days!
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: It's a joke, but a tasteless one
<HazRPG> I thought that died years ago :(
<fujisan> ye
<HazRPG> I don't get why microsoft killed support for that, I thought it was a pretty awesome client
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: complaining to the ops should work, especially if it happens (more) often
<HazRPG> I managed to knock together my own lil character for it n everything back when I was 15 :)
<gordonjcp> fujisan: is it even worth putting that into Google Translate?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you're still 15, right?
<shauno> woah.  howdy fujisan
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: no.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it won't happen more often if he's banned though :/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I wish xD
<HazRPG> life is so much simple when your 15 :P
<HazRPG> simpler*
<fujisan> MartijnVdS not to the belgian op he banned me
<fujisan> he didnt even see it as a problem
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: also depends on the way you ask/tell of course
<fujisan> hi shauno :)
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam
<fujisan> i followed the path of righteous indignation wish was probably wrong
<fujisan> i think i just won't go there anymore even if they ever unban me
<fujisan> HazRPG ye for sure
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: but if you don't follow the "official" Ubuntu-irc path to get unbanned, they'll never learn
<fujisan> ye sure
<fujisan> i'll try
<fujisan> then
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: you might want to point at the official logs rather than your image though
<MartijnVdS> !logs
<lubotu3> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<fujisan> the channel is logged so that shouldnt be a problem
<fujisan> i just dont have the logs myself
<shauno> the image made me chuckle  (don't understand the text myself), but their own logs are impartial (and easier to read :)
<fujisan> hmz
<fujisan> i dont see the offtopic channel listed
<Myrtti> which offtopic channel?
<fujisan> ubuntu-nl-offtopic
 * bigcalm returns for a bit
<brobostigon> wb bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Cheers :)
<bigcalm> As far as hospitals go, this one isn't too bad
<brobostigon> thats good.
 * brobostigon points out now.he doesnt like hospitals, he has been in hospital enough times.
<bigcalm> Pleasing that I'm actually able to get a strong enough signal for hspda
<brobostigon> wow, :)
<brobostigon> hsdpa*
<bigcalm> Thank you ;)
<bigcalm> Correct letters, wrong order
<bigcalm> I could just say edge
<brobostigon> not accurate.
<bigcalm> No?
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<brobostigon> hsdpa is a 3g technology, edge is 2.5g.
<bigcalm> My phone says H instead of 3G or 3.5G
<brobostigon> bigcalm: so does mine,
<bigcalm> Ah, I see
<brobostigon> and 2.2.1
<brobostigon> android*
<bigcalm> 2.3.3 CyanogenMod 7 rc4
<brobostigon> heh :(
<bigcalm> Isn't there a build for your handset?
<HazRPG> fujisan: still can't believe that microsoft chat still gets used! :)
<brobostigon> bigcalm: yes and no, CM have working source for htc dream, however, to try and do anything with it, gingerbread uses too much ram and memory, k9 consitently restarts for example, because it tryies to use ram, but gets killed, when it tries to use ram. gingerbreadisjust too ram hungry.
<brobostigon> sorry, that is a assay.:(
<HazRPG> fujisan: I just thought, that could partially the reason you got banned, because I recall microsoft chat does spam the channel a bit due to the avatars n what not
<fujisan> HazRPG it's very creative though
<bigcalm> brobostigon: sucky :(
<brobostigon> bigcalm: very, yes, :(
<HazRPG> fujisan: I agree, I use to use it for years until microsoft pulled it out of their support life-cycle
<fujisan> http://kurlander.net/DJ/Projects/ComicChat/resources.html
<fujisan> i just find it interesting
<brobostigon> bigcalm: so this is the cloest and newest to a properlyfunctioning system.
<MartijnVdS> On another channel I'm on (not Ubuntu-related :)) we used to annoy Comic Chat users
<fujisan> hehe
<MartijnVdS> #APPEARS AS TIKI
<HazRPG> fujisan: you've sort of inspired me to make a pidgin plugin that does something similar :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: O M G NOOO
<fujisan> lol
<brobostigon> bigcalm: and i can get hsdpa here, however the signal is pretty patchy and bad. :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe, aww why not! I use to love comic chat!
<shauno> I've lived in a fair few channels where uttering the phrase 'Appears as' provoked the bots into banning you.  comic chat is funny, the 'out of band' messages it subjects everyone else to, can get a bit tiresome
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: make it an empathy/gwibber theme :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: obviously I'd devise a way so that it didn't spam the main channel...
<gordonjcp> shauno: "appears as"?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: just stay close to a wifi signal - sit in mcdonald's all day
<shauno> gordonjcp: the first utterance of the comic chat client.  "# Appears as <name>"
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Comic chat says "#APPEARS AS <comic character name>"
<brobostigon> bigcalm: mc-donalds, i dont think so.
<gordonjcp> ah, okay
<popey> brobostigon: I often use the free wifi in mcdonalds
<MartijnVdS> popey: because you eat there every day, right?
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> *ahem*
<popey> not quite
<brobostigon> popey: i would prefer a whetherspoons myself. :9
<MartijnVdS> every other day then :P
<popey> understandable brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> The coffee isn't that bad. Handy when you're in the depths of Wales with a weak phone signal
<popey> heh
<popey> thats exactly where I used to use it most
<bigcalm> Speaking of which, we need to make a trip to Aberystwyth soon. Not that far away and lovely coast
<brobostigon> bigcalm: a ger together with the ubuntu-cymru guys?
<brobostigon> get*
<bigcalm> brobostigon: newp, just want to show Hayley where I used to go for holidays as a child
<bigcalm> My grandparents used to have a cottage near Borth
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ah, sounds interesting, :)
<brobostigon> ok,
<popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Maes-y-felin,+swansea&aq=&sll=51.523337,-3.588302&sspn=0.008705,0.02444&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Maes+y+Felin,+Swansea,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.677578,-3.996084&spn=0.002169,0.00611&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.678066,-3.996103&panoid=Jl-Q48jT8bipnug_T6Oa6w&cbp=12,237.95,,0,13.51
<popey> that one!
<bigcalm> And the country side is stunning. Really want to just drive there now :)
<bigcalm> popey: I can't believe you went looking for the location of the mcdonald's you used to frequent!
<popey> :)
<popey> yes, you can :)
<MartijnVdS> Java people? (Azelphur ?) -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL2D3qzHtqY
<bigcalm> Aye, that's true
<bigcalm> Oh, 3 days booked in the Premier Inn...
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, I'm trying to be a java person
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> so far I've done hello world.
<bigcalm> This is as far as I got with Java http://lazygnome.net/projects/WebClock2/
<MartijnVdS> "Missing plugin"
<bigcalm> Java
<MartijnVdS> apparently, I don't have java installed :)
<bigcalm> :P
<brobostigon> the most i have done with java, that i understood is with google app inventor, and that isnt even java,
<brobostigon> done/understood.*
<MartijnVdS> I've done a little bit of Java in school, 12 years ago :)
<HazRPG> I made a client/server app that serves an access database
<MartijnVdS> and a few "Hello world" Android bits
<MartijnVdS> oh and some "Hello world" JavaME bits back in the early Smart Phone Age
<HazRPG> back in college
<Azelphur> I'm currently trying to do some contrib to yaaic though :P
<HazRPG> Azelphur: if I've still got the zip with all my tutors lectures and examples for making a client/server, I'll link you up to them if you like
<Azelphur> that sounds cool
<bigcalm> Time to visit Hayley's brother for a bit before we go home.
<bigcalm> Laters peeps
<HazRPG> its got both the labs and also explanation files, along with some source code files when it said "try using ... file" and change to do /this/ and /that/, etc
<jacobw> head first java
<brobostigon> bye bigcalm
<popey> o/
<bigcalm> Toodles :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: cool :D
<HazRPG> Azelphur: found it!
<Azelphur> :D
<HazRPG> Azelphur: it doesn't have lessons 1-6, but I don't think he ever shared those... and they were just about basic hello world stuff
<HazRPG> 1-5* even
<Azelphur> hehe
<jacobw> ah, android irc, i knew i'd heard of yaaic
<HazRPG> Azelphur: ah no wait, they were powerpoint files... and those are in its own folder :) - seems I packaged this collection quite well :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Congratulations on GNOME 3! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/06/congratulations-on-gnome-3/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: sent you an IM with the link :)
<Azelphur> ty
<HazRPG> Azelphur: bare in mind this is the files he would hand out and he did explain it more in the lectures... however the files do explain things pretty well regardless
<Azelphur> :D
<HazRPG> he used some funny names for his variables, so just keep that in mind
<HazRPG> (e.g. a socket was just labelled "ss", etc - but they sort of make sense)
<fujisan> anybody going to watch the CL game?
<HazRPG> fujisan: CL?
<fujisan>  chelsea vs manutd
<jacobw> nope :p
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: the sound on that video for JVM is pretty scratchy and hurts my ears >_<
<HazRPG> anyone out there that has dual-screens using the nvidia drivers on a linux distro confirm if youtube works properly now?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: full screen?
<HazRPG> I suppose I could just disable my hack to get it to work and see if it works :/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah
<Azelphur> No, on natty
<Azelphur> I havn't rebooted for the most recent update though
<MartijnVdS> nvidia + properly? hahaha
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :P
<HazRPG> Azelphur: you should lookup ali1234's fullscreen hack :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: works amazingly!
<Azelphur> HazRPG: yea I need to do that sometime
<HazRPG> only issue is that it still puts the fullscreen-ed window onto the first monitor (or monitor 0)
<HazRPG> but that's due to flash more than anything else
<ali1234> i was thinking about that
<ali1234> it actually opens on the first window but with the size of which ever window flashplugin started on
<ali1234> s/window/screen/
<HazRPG> so if it was started on a smaller screen, it would still stretch incorrectly?
 * MartijnVdS cleans up his ~ in preparation of a reinstall
<brobostigon> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/06/congratulations-on-gnome-3/
<brobostigon> http://www.osnews.com/comments/24609
<brobostigon> can i shke my fist atthem, either, it seems the people commenting havent tried it, and or are regurgitating otherpeoples thoughts, and nothing original. worst is saying, someone there comparing it to windows, and saying, window's gui hasnt changed, hmm, i dont believe it.
<brobostigon> arghh.
<jacobw> its no different to what people said about kde4, even people who've pontificated about change for years don't like change
<brobostigon> jacobw: i think you are right, it meaningless and i will ignore it for most, unless it is original constructive discussion.
<directhex> it's @1990slinuxuser!
<brobostigon> directhex: i didnt truly use linux then.
<ali1234> thing is we had the same thing with gnome 2
<directhex> brobostigon, twitter.com/1990slinuxuser
<ali1234> everyone hated it
<jacobw> brobostigon: i think 'thom holwerda' is right, "we're living in fortunate times .. with two wildly divergent open source desktops."
<ali1234> what happened was slowly all the things everyone hated got reverted
<ali1234> and gnome developers acted like they never did anything wrong
<brobostigon> jacobw: he cannot comment, ashe hanst tried it, yes. and open source is choice here, and i am up for constructive disicussion, but not stupis regurgitation.
<brobostigon> ali1234: i hope that doesnt happen, in truth.
<ali1234> i've tried it; it sucks
<ali1234> therefore your argument is invalid
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome2 or gnome3?
<ali1234> both actually
<ali1234> gnome 2 sucked when it was new
<ali1234> gnome 3 sucks too
<ali1234> give it about 2 years and all the bad stuff will get removed
<ali1234> the maximize button will be back
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome3 improves in alot of ways on gnome2, like its workspace management, like it notifications.
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> the things that work will be kept, the things that are dumb will go
<brobostigon> ali1234: and why have minimise, if you have nothing to minimise too?
<ali1234> that's how it works
<brobostigon> zilch.
<ali1234> they will relent on that one too
<ali1234> either they'll add a task bar to gnome-shell, or everyone will just stay with gnome classicv
<brobostigon> ali1234: why, you only need to minimise windows, if you have something to minimise too.
<ali1234> either way the buttons will be back
<brobostigon> no point,
<brobostigon> ali1234: you didnt answer my question.
<ali1234> that's like saying you only need roads if you have cars, therefore you don't need roads, because we've taken away your cars
<ali1234> it doesn't make any sense in the real world
<brobostigon> ali1234: my only need for minimise, was to access the desktop, i had no other purpose for it, there were other ways to manage progs and their windows.
<ali1234> so what?
<ali1234> you are one person
<ali1234> and you think beos is the best thing evar
<brobostigon> ali1234: it seems the gnome design team, and alot of other people agree with me.
<brobostigon> and my logic,
<ali1234> funny i don't see them anywhere
<ali1234> nobody agreed with the gnome design team when 2 was released, and nobody agrees with them now
<gord> design means nothing until its tested, we changed a bunch of stuff in unity once we got it in the hands of testers
<brobostigon> ali1234: in its basic OS design yes, like a microkernel, and servers ontop of it, and its FS, etc.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: this time they're really wrong though
<ali1234> history will repeat itself
<brobostigon> gord: which they have done over time with gnome-shell aswell, :)
<ali1234> the principle behind gnome 3, unity, kde 4 etc seems to be "throw a bunch of **** at the wall and see what sticks"
<ali1234> which is fair enough
 * MartijnVdS turns on the fan :P
<gord> brobostigon, no - i mean real testers
<gord> kicking something out of the door will get you far more testers than you ever wanted/needed ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: yeah noticed that today :)
<brobostigon> gord: alot of people test gnome-shell in real life, i have for the last year, more orless,
<gord> brobostigon, no matter how many do, its not enough and its people invested in the idea
<MartijnVdS> gord: (we switched a customer-facing bit of code from FreeBSD to Debian, in a new version..)
<brobostigon> gord: you maybe right, alot of peopleworked on its design, who probebly deserve more appreication.
<gord> brobostigon, thats not what i'm saying, what i'm saying is that people invested in the idea testing doesn't help. unity was designed in much the same way - then we put it infront of real people - who had never seen unity before and it was tough for them. that sucked, we went back after that and took a second look at lots of our design
<gord> basically, until you kick something out the door, get people who don't even know what it it using it, its not a tested design
<ali1234> the exact same thing has happened in windows over the years
<ali1234> so many new features touted as the greatest innovation ever, only to be quietly turned off in service packs :)
<brobostigon> gord: they ans we, who use gnome-shell/gnome3 will be doing the same thing. no doubt,
<brobostigon> gord: and i will be taking a page out of popey's book, and putting gnome3 in  few weeks, infront of my mum.
<ali1234> i can't really think of any examples where apple has gone back on new features
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Everything pre-OSX:)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but since then...
<MartijnVdS> window rollup
<brobostigon> well using unix, is a huge improvement really.
<gord> i have a feeling they will go back on some of the new iphonification they are doing to osx
<gord> in time
<ali1234> i mean like changing something, claiming the new way is better, then going back because everyone hated it
<gord> course it'll be announced as a new feature ;)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: striped grey backgrounds
<brobostigon> no idea, never use mac-osx, i have used its underlying bsd, darwin before.
<brobostigon> used*
<ali1234> like gnome 2 and windows 95 did with spatial browsing
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's a mach kernel with some bsd userland
<gord> i thought gnome2 stuck with spatial browsing?
<ali1234> or clippy/the search dog is another example
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, based in part on nextstep. i agree. hence partly darwin.
<gord> it was an ubuntu distropatch that disabled it
<ali1234> gord: they might have, but all distros turn it off because it sucks
<brobostigon> spatial browsing?
<ali1234> and every windows after win95 has it off by default
<gord> brobostigon, basically folder windows always opening in new windows
<ali1234> also you can only open each folder once
<brobostigon> gord: i hated that, yes.
<ali1234> everyone except gnome designers hated it
<ali1234> just like gnome-shell :)
<jacobw> designers suck :p
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome3 uses nautilus, its all in one window,
<ali1234> quite often they seem extremely out of touch with real users
<ali1234> but if 50% of what they come up with is good i can live with that
<brobostigon> ali1234: nautilus does not open new windows, for each file manager change.
<ali1234> it doesn't any more
<ali1234> it did when gnome 2 was first released
<ali1234> then they quietly went back on it
<brobostigon> ali1234: it didnt in 10.10's nautilus either.
<ali1234> of course it didn't, gnome 2 is like 10 years old
<brobostigon> ali1234: hmmm,
<ali1234> i don't know what happens if you install gnome 2 from upstream source
<ali1234> maybe it still uses spatial by default, idk... but the fact is nobody actually uses gnome 2 vanilla except gnome developers
<gord> brobostigon, ubuntu has always turned spacial mode off
<gord> its not the gnome default
<shauno> spatial was awkward.  it made logical sense, but went against what people are used to.  sometimes the right thing to do, isn't the right thing to do.
<nperry> Happy Gnome3 Day <3
<brobostigon> gord: oh, i see. interesting, i didnt know.
<brobostigon> nperry: yay, :), yes.
<ali1234> did they release it today or something?
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome3 fully, yes.
<ali1234> that's probably why nobody looked at my bug report from yesterday yet then
<ali1234> too busy arguing about minimize button on web forums
<brobostigon> ali1234: is it to do with gnome3 somehow?
<brobostigon> ali1234: link me up, please.
<shauno> I miss garnome.  once upon a time, I'd be building gnome by now :)
<ali1234> brobostigon: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646867
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 646867 in daemon "Memory leak on gvfsd "listMounts" dbus call" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<brobostigon> ali1234: i will give it a read.
<ali1234> there's no need unless you're planning on writing a patch, it's a cut and dried bug :)
<brobostigon> valgrind ?
<ali1234> yes, valgrind
<ali1234> !valgrind
<MartijnVdS> hmm valgrind
<ali1234> aw no factoid
<MartijnVdS> good thing I don't use non-compiled languages anymore :)
<brobostigon> !info valgrind
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> compiled*
<lubotu3> valgrind (source: valgrind): A memory debugger and profiler. In component main, is optional. Version 1:3.6.0~svn20100724-0ubuntu2 (maverick), package size 20290 kB, installed size 51336 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 powerpc lpia armel)
<brobostigon> !info valgrind natty
<lubotu3> valgrind (source: valgrind): A memory debugger and profiler. In component main, is optional. Version 1:3.6.1-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 27162 kB, installed size 72216 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 powerpc ppc64 lpia armel)
<brobostigon> ah, ok. i see.
<brobostigon> sorry.
 * nperry gets my whistle out for gnome3
<nperry> 10seconds
<ali1234> download the testcase and run it if you want to see the bug
<nperry> Ok, gnome3 is here.
<ali1234> you'll hit OOM in about 5 minutes
<brobostigon> ali1234: i might yes,
<brobostigon> ali1234: maybe not then, no.
<ali1234> i need to report the other bug on gnome-system-monitor too
<brobostigon> nperry: you a gnome3 user?
<phonex01> hello guys
<phonex01> how are you there ?
<nperry> brobostigon: I am..
<brobostigon> good evening phonex01
<brobostigon> nperry: :)
<jacobw> quite a few of us are here
<phonex01> it is amazing weather here ,,,,, good for hacking hahahha
<nperry> brobostigon: Just installing the gnome3 ppa stack.. Been an avid jhbuilder for the last 6 months.
<brobostigon> nperry: we were justdiscussing some of the design an philosopihcal decisions behind it.
<brobostigon> nperry: i am using the gnome3-teams ppa in natty.
<phonex01> i have three WIFI access point around and im thinking ....
 * nperry hopes for buttons not to come up.
<brobostigon> nperry: we discussed that.
<nperry> brobostigon: just my two cents... I don't use max or min.... EVER!
<nperry> So it fits well with me.
<jacobw> most people do though :|
<willy1977> evening...
<brobostigon> nperry: i only used minimise, to get to dsktop myself, so it had very littleppoint in being there, once a traditional desktop no longer existed.
<nperry> jacobw: rm -rf *; git clone nperry
<ali1234> i use minimize any time i want to see the window behind the window i'm using
<MartijnVdS> nperry: you're saying some git is cloning you?
<brobostigon> ali1234: alt-tab ?
<ali1234> no, i never use alt-tab
<brobostigon> ali1234: you should do, it is very useful, :)
<ali1234> no, it sucks
<nperry> alt+tab means taking your hand from my trackpad
<nperry> as normaly you move into a window to move curose not type.
<ali1234> alt tab fails quite hard on a dual head setup
<ali1234> you never know what you're going to get when you press it
<brobostigon> nperry: i try and use my mouse as little as possible, and alt-tab works vert well to achieve that,
<ali1234> with minimize i know i will always get the window behind the current window
<ali1234> with alt tab it can be a window on the other monitor
<ali1234> pretty much all these fancy new desktops fail horrible on dual head
<ali1234> another thing i do very often is minimize or maximize a window that doesn't have focus
<brobostigon> ali1234: i have never use multi-monitor, so i had no idea, i couldnt speak for.
<ali1234> which doesn't really work when the buttons are hidden on all but the focussed window
<ali1234> see "how do i minimize firefox?" image i posted the other day - there is actually bug on launchpad about this now
<ali1234> since some windows you *can't* focus for one reason or another
<ali1234> then you can never minimize them
<ali1234> then there's windows where clicking on them would perform some action you don't want
<brobostigon> i would simply alt-tab and or by some method choose the window i want, irrelivant as to minimise, what if all window are minimised and only desktop is visible.
<ali1234> well yeah that's another problem with alt tab
<ali1234> at any given time probably 75% of my windows are minimized
<ali1234> alt-tab is going to show them all
<ali1234> or i can just work on a subset using minimize/maximize/restore
<brobostigon> its not an issue, alt-tabworks very well, and  for my use, it works perfectly.
<brobostigon> alt-tab in gnome-shell show the apps, and then the window within those apps, works very well.
<brobostigon> good window management.
<brobostigon> windows*
<brobostigon> shows*
<ali1234> it's the same problem that unity's start menu has
<ali1234> instead of allowing you to work in a subset, it just slaps everything into one huge list because "it's simpler"
<brobostigon> unity doesnt have a start menu.
<ali1234> yes it does
<brobostigon> no,
<ali1234> http://www.hackourlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Unity-Start-Menu.jpeg
<ali1234> that's out of date
<ali1234> it still exists though
<brobostigon> ali1234: can we be specifc as to what we mean by a start menu, as in a windows like one?
<ali1234> start menu = menu you click on to start programs
<ali1234> just because it's crap doesn't mean it's not a start menu :)
<ali1234> even the KDE4 one is less annoying
<brobostigon> ali1234: i click on nothing to start progs, i hit super button, start typing, and hit enter, i havent clicked on anything.
<ali1234> super button... as in the windows key? as in the key that shows the start menu on windows?
<brobostigon> yes.
<ali1234> when i want to run programs by typing the name of them, i use a shell
<ali1234> but yeah... that search box is a part of the start menu
<ali1234> i actually do the same thing, because hunting through the menus is so awful
<ali1234> but i don't like it at all
<ali1234> when it searches it's really slow
<ali1234> it's like the firefox awesome bar
<brobostigon> there is an applist seperate though, always there,
<ali1234> type 3 chars, wait 30 seconds while the computer grinds...
<brobostigon> ali1234: gnome-shells is quite quick, even on my eeepc,
<brobostigon> ali1234: almost immediate,
<ali1234> i bet it won't be quick when whatever database backend it uses gets full of cruft
<HazRPG> wow, seems I missed a lot by watching a google talk on youtube T_T
<brobostigon> ali1234: it has had about 2 months of going now, and is same speed, if not quicker.
<nperry> brobostigon: You said you was using the gnome3 ppa?
<HazRPG> gnome3 + unity discussions are relevant to my interests! I hate both!
<HazRPG> simply put
<ali1234> mee too
<brobostigon> nperry: gnome3-teams ppa, yes.
<HazRPG> multi-screens sort of kills the whole "fancy desktop" situation
<ali1234> actually i don't hate gnome3, just gnome-shell
<HazRPG> before I had 2 screens, I use to be a frequent alt+tabber
<ali1234> HazRPG: yeah we already went over that
<HazRPG> but now that I have 2 screens... it sort of doesn't work
<HazRPG> ali1234: yeah I know, I'm just assuring brobostigon that your not the only one that feels that way
<brobostigon> on my next machine, i will get multi-monitor, and try, and see.
<ali1234> despite the way it seems, i'm not unique :)
<willy1977> you don't work in the same way with dual head...
<willy1977> hence the fancy dan stuff get's in the way ;)
<ali1234> i just like to argue against the majority viewpoint
<brobostigon> willy1977: as i said,i will try it out, and see.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: trust me alt+tabbing will become annoying when you realise that if your looking at one screen and you alt+tab, and suddenly something shows up on your other screen...
<ali1234> if everyone was bashing gnome-shell i'd probably say it was great
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hmm, i cant really imagine that, unless i try it, i think.
<willy1977> brobostigon: indeed it's worth a look makes you think different I run it at work as I have the space don't have the space here at home ;)
<jacobw> ali1234 is contrary :p
<willy1977> or ali1234: fights for the underdog?
<brobostigon> willy1977: i could make the space, no easy, but i could, if i had enough money to,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: using multiple screens can make life SOOOOO much easier, however some designs for desktop management can get in the way of it though
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i would love to see more than one window at once, i can imagine it, it would help hugely.
<ali1234> such as the design where you're only allowed a launcher on the first screen
<willy1977> ah money always the issue...
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I see if I can describe it. Lets say you have four applications, 2 on each screen. However lets say for example you opened them at alternate times, so app 1 and 3 are on the left screen and app 2 and 4 are on the right screen (this can get even more annoying when you have as many apps open as I do).
<willy1977> HazRPG: definitely more productive with it - but the simpler desktops work better with it IMO
<HazRPG> willy1977: agreed
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, yes, i think i understand,
 * brobostigon goes for a rest, in search of beer in the fridge,
<shauno> the main catch isn't the order they were opened in.  it's that alt-tab tries to re-arrange the tab order constantly so repeatedly alt-tapping flips between the app in front, and the app you last used behind it.
<shauno> it's an assumption that isn't always true for dualhead
<ali1234> shauno: bingo
<shauno> and when it's true, it's luck.  luck-based task switching sucks.
<ali1234> heh
<HazRPG> brobostigon: so when you alt+tab, your not alt+tabbing to the app directly behind the one your looking at, your alt+tabbing to the one on the other screen... and the more you have open, the worse this is. In fact even holding ALT and cycling through tabs can sometimes not help at all, because your not sure which screen its going to pop up on.
<ali1234> this is why i have a start enu and a task bar on both screens
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hmmm, that isnt logical behaviour,
<ali1234> right, and that's why none of us uses alt-tab afaict
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah, I guess... but this is how it works once you've got two screens.
 * brobostigon returns, beer in hand,
<HazRPG> and why it gets frustrating
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it makes no sense, i would want fine choice and to what is open, how, and where, and not leave it down to chance,
<HazRPG> ali1234: I have 3 panels total, don't see the point in two task bars. Plus 2 menu's are pointless when I have most used apps on the two top panels
<ali1234> two task bars so that the task bar only shows apps from that screen
<ali1234> and two menus because i often run fullscreen apps on both displays
<willy1977> I think win 7 deals with this (depending on how you bring up the alt-tab list) by giving a set of numbered applications when you hover over one it highlights it up on the screen it's running on... hmmm?
<ali1234> gaming on primary, watching videos on secondary
<HazRPG> ali1234: ahhh I didn't realise task bars did that!
<HazRPG> I might have to add another task bar :)
<nperry> brobostigon: You not getting a deps fail?
<nperry>   gnome-icon-theme-symbolic: Depends: gnome-icon-theme (< 2.92) but 3.0.0-0ubuntu1~build1 is installed.
<ali1234> yeah, it's good
<brobostigon> i would probeblt be much happier if app lists, and task bars, werent there, and a better way of prog/window/app management was invented.
<brobostigon> nperry: nope,
<nperry> making gnome-shell uninstallable
<willy1977> nperry: I think it got broke a few days ago I've not been able to get it on yet... :s
<brobostigon> nperry: i didnt have that here, i woulkd get holdof the ppa guys.
<shauno> I just use expose for task switching.  adapts to dualhead nicely :)
<willy1977> my understanding was they were aware of it, but yeah as brobostigon says get in touch again it can't hurt.
<ali1234> i feel like the owner of two carefully organized desks, and then someone has come in and taken everything from both desks and piled it into a huge pile on one desk, and then said "i'm helping!" and then run off
<nperry> brobostigon: I take it that'd be #ubuntu-desktop ?
<willy1977> shauno: expose?
 * willy1977 wanders off to google...
<brobostigon> nperry: no idea, i havent had to, not a clue. sorry.
<shauno> willy1977: the mac thing that swishes all the windows away into thumbnailed views
<willy1977> oh yeah...
<shauno> it was a pain until multitouch made it a twitch reaction
<willy1977> that's kind of what win 7 can do...
<brobostigon> nperry: maybe file a bug on their launchpad page.
<HazRPG> ali1234: oh wow, this is amazing! Thanks for the tip :D
<ali1234> i don't like expose... all my windows look the same when they are tiny
<shauno> altho I found binding it to one of the junk keys right of the spacebar, made it very nifty on a laptop trackpad
<ali1234> HazRPG: i no rite?
<HazRPG> ali1234: ^^
<HazRPG> ali1234: you've saved me so much heart ache!
<willy1977> you can of course run expose on win 7 too :D
<HazRPG> I always thought it just cloned everything over the two desktops
<shauno> most likely.  I'm fairly sure I saw some semblance of it in ubuntu at one stage too.
<shauno> ah.  compiz fusion called it 'scale' as a window management option
<HazRPG> yeah I thought compiz did that :)
<shauno> I tend to only use alt-tab if I have something fullscreened, because I can never really trust what they'll do with the multitouch otherwise
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i think i would be happiest, with a workbench like gui, over multi-monitor, maybe, or a multi-monitor aware of haiku's app-server.
<HazRPG> shauno: I use alt+tab for the same reason, except not because of touch-screen - mainly because I don't know how its going to handle the ESC key
<HazRPG> multi-touch* rather
<HazRPG> some apps with ESC out of full-screen and back to normal... some will just close
<HazRPG> just like some apps accept CTRL+W as a close method
<shauno> I think it's mostly because if I have something fullscreen, it's usually vmware or a photo app.  both of which will capture the multitouch & try to do something 'useful' with it
<HazRPG> however some use both ESC and CTRL+W, some use neither - and that really confuses me
<shauno> I have one app that'll only obey alt-f4.  that's insanely irritating.
<HazRPG> oh yeah, that's another annoying one :/
 * brobostigon goes to enjoy his beer, with some music, 
<HazRPG> I keep forgetting alt+f4 is an actual thing
<HazRPG> until some app throws it in as a monkey wrench to annoy me
<shauno> that's it.  I'm on a mac.  it's not an actual thing :p
<shauno> fn+alt+f4 does not feature in my muscle-memory
<brobostigon> my big issue, is when windows force themselves on me, i have to get rid if it or them, to continue, i hate that.
<shauno> I don't like apps that are allowed to bring themselves to focus.  that strikes me a real issue.  I could be typing passwords, credit card numbers, I want my keyboard focus where I put it.
<directhex>  i agree
<directhex> i hate it when i start my machine, start all my apps, start typping in irc and EVERY new app to start steals focus
<directhex> it's a window manager issue, fwiw
<shauno> or more likely, I could be finishing a sentence of drivel on irc, smack enter and agree to some dialog that was only on the screen for a split second
<brobostigon> shauno: i want the choice, no a window blocking me, however, also sticking if its assential.
<brobostigon> spot on.
<shauno> it's it's genuinely important, it can come to front.  I need to see it.  it doesn't need to steal the keyboard too.  that raises the chances I'll smack enter and _not_ see it.
<HazRPG> shauno: heh I hate it when dialogues do that too
<HazRPG> dialogues should be banned as a thing
 * willy1977 hates the dialog box thingy too... not sure they can be banned mind ;)
<HazRPG> which is why I like chrome's take on it, by having them as tabs, or as a window inside a tab
<shauno> that one's not just me being grumpy either.  you see $averageuser putting three-letter sentences into their chat client of choice, enter's every 4th key :)
<HazRPG> willy1977: when I say banned, I mean they should be nicely integrated into the app somewhere as like a frame that pops up inside it and greys the rest out to show you that the app needs your interaction
<brobostigon> this issue was one that was tried to be solved, first on the amiga, and then in classic macos, and then in BeOS and haiku.
<directhex> shauno, it's the WM's fault. compiz allows it to happen, by default. not every WM has this behaviour
<shauno> there's ways to solve it that just need common sense, not a complete rethink.  not stealing focus would be nice.  if you can't help it (or the WM decides for you), don't have a default option, so it's not dismissed unintentionally
<brobostigon> BeOS's app server, wasnt very good at it, as it could be overriden, however haiku's is much better, and it needs to be explicit and definate to take focus.
<brobostigon> nothing steals focus, expliccitly, unless, abolsutly made to.
<HazRPG> shauno: I think by default keyboard shouldn't have focus taken away, and it should also not be allowed to be changed by an app - but an overall config that the user can define
<shauno> this is one place I agree with gnome (and apple).  making things like that a user-defined policy is just admitting you couldn't get it right
 * brobostigon shuts up now,
<ali1234> bacon-message-connection.c - uh, ok then
<willy1977> ah...
<shauno> if you get it right, no-one notices it was ever a problem :)
<HazRPG> e.g. keyboard always stays on focus of where it was left previous, and if you want to allow it to take focus away... this should be configurable manually, but forced by the way the application is coded
<willy1977> messing with irssi for the first time so couldn't respond as I had the nickserv window "stuck" :)
<HazRPG> willy1977: CTRL+n :)
<HazRPG> willy1977: or CTRL+p
<HazRPG> or even CTRL+<number>
<brobostigon> alt + left-right arrow.
<HazRPG> but I'm guessin you figured that
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ooo, yeah that works too :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<willy1977> nope did it by faffin with /window show x off meh... your shortcuts are better :p
<HazRPG> slightly off current-topic... shauno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w35UVc_MPDc (chiptune collection)
<shauno> I gripe about this because itunes is doing it constantly to me atm, as I import thousands of tracks
<brobostigon> HazRPG: amazing, thank you, you responded to something i said. i was talking bout the same as everyone else there for a while, and i was ignored.
<shauno> i just have no opinion on how beos/haiku handle it because I've never tried them
 * brobostigon hugs HazRPG 
<HazRPG> brobostigon: nah, I think everyone was just getting into their own grump over things :P
<brobostigon> shauno: where as, that the longest system, i have experience with.
<HazRPG> I tend to go off on one (rant), and then get back to people once I've said my piece
<brobostigon> HazRPG: good point. yes.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: sorry,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I agree, amiga and beos did try and fix it
<shauno> I don't recall the amiga ever throwing a modal at me from another app, but I rarely multitask in it
<HazRPG> its just something people can't get use to though, when windows don't pop up people start to worry I think.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: and more success than most, because of simple app-server/wm design.
<shauno> I think some things do need to come to front and poke you in the eye.  I think it's also a very short list
<shauno> it's a shame the notification bubbles on ubuntu are so .. wrong.  else they'd be a good option for everything else
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, I'll leave my rant about that to myself, but I agree ubuntu's notifications are well and truly broken... and they don't seem to have any intention on fixing that :/
<brobostigon> shauno: this is why i like the notifications in gnome-shell, because they dont block what you are doing, and or steal focus, unike in gnome2 sometimes.
<shauno> if it's important enough to shove it in your face, it's important enough to follow-up on.  so why can't you click them to reach context?
<willy1977> it's a cool discussion this with some great points - may have to download the archive because I'm off to bed... night all.
<ali1234> because most of the things indicator is used for are not important at all
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I think he was more referring to the fact that you can't click on notifications to see what it said, nor see a history about what was said with a simple click
<ali1234> like social rubbish
<KrimZon> has anyone here tried gnome 3 much?
<ali1234> it's only there because everyone has to have a "social desktop" these days
<HazRPG> (in  fact I don't think it actually logs notifications! - prove me wrong though if there's something I'm missing)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: which you can in gnome-shell,
<ali1234> you can in kde as well
<brobostigon> KrimZon: alot. yes.
<ali1234> kde notifications are a lot more powerful of course
<ali1234> like everything in kde
<KrimZon> how do I change the wireless password after having entered it wrong?
<ali1234> but of course they look terrible, also like everything in kde
<shauno> I don't believe the indicator ones are logged, no.  I had a lot of fun with that seeing if you could recover messages that were left from gnome-screensaver
<brobostigon> KrimZon: change that in network manager.
<brobostigon> KrimZon: via its applet.
<shauno> I do use notifications for things like 'so and so has come online' tho.  they're useful.  if I click on them, it opens an IM session with so & so.
<shauno> if I get "fred has mentioned you in #ubuntu-uk", and I click on it, it brings irc to front.  etc.
<KrimZon> brobostigon: I don't see any way to
<HazRPG> ali1234: that's one thing that puts me off kde... its terrible design choices (or rather visual design choices) - the extra power it gives is amazing however
<shauno> if a message has no context worth clicking thru to, it's most likely not a message that's worth seeing.
<brobostigon> KrimZon: right click on applet, and edit conenctions.
<ali1234> HazRPG: a lot of it isn't choices but abstention from choices
<HazRPG> if both the KDE group and Gnome group were to bump heads together, I'm sure it would be a fantastic piece of work (if they picked the best of both worlds)
<ali1234> HazRPG: the rest is just pure bugs
<matti> ;]
<KrimZon> oh, I get the same as left click when right clicking the applet
<shauno> HazRPG: in the real world, when kde & gnome bump heads, someone loses teeth :)
<jacobw> kde > gnome
<shauno> or worse .. they create freedesktop.org
<ali1234> HazRPG: for example, KDE lets you change almost any font anywhere in the UI, but if you do, then text won't align properly on widgets, because their theming engine is broken
<brobostigon> KrimZon: yesterdays updates, should put that behaviour back to normal, form the gnome3-teams ppa.
<ali1234> so KDE only looks "good" with default fonts
<ali1234> and only in the default sizes too
<brobostigon> KrimZon: or just use the network editor in gnome-control-panel.
<HazRPG> shauno: I agree, that was one thing I liked in windows too... with notifications - however most notifications in windows were application specific, the ones built into windows were ... well if you'd seen one, it usually meant some bad had happened
<jacobw> its far more functional though, plasma can adapt itself or be adapted to most preferences
 * jacobw is a kde fan
<ali1234> jacobw: really? how do i change the colour of my taskbar to match the windows then?
<KrimZon> there's a thing in the control panel to edit networks, but the options button is greyed out
<brobostigon> KrimZon: it should have an unlock option.
<shauno> I can't stand notifications in windows.  they only ever tell me I've plugged something in (repeatedly, excitedly, as windows slowly figures out what just happened).  or they're reminding me there's icons on my desktop.
<ali1234> jacobw: my standard challenge to all who say that KDE can be configured to do whatever you want: make KDE4 look identical to ubuntu desktop with human theme
<brobostigon> KrimZon: i wouldnt try to run gnome-control-panel as root.
<KrimZon> it's a livecd
 * jacobw quietly mutters "why would you want to.."
<brobostigon> KrimZon: fedora?
<KrimZon> suse
<brobostigon> KrimZon: no idea, sorry.
<ali1234> jacobw: to prove that what KDE developers claim is actually true
<ali1234> jacobw: here is a screenshot you can work from: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/clean_install.png
<shauno> I can't really say much about kde, I haven't used it since 2.x
<dwatkins> wow, the beep got removed from Ubuntu and won't re-enable, that
<dwatkins> that's kinda interesting
<HazRPG> shauno: I hated the "OUT OF MEMORY" notifications, because usually when that popped up... windows spazzed out no end >_<
<shauno> well, that's shooting the messenger.  that's the rare case of windows telling you something you should probably know (if it's reached the point it can't handle it itself)
<ali1234> jacobw: here's another with some windows: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/Screenshot-7.png
<shauno> in general tho, it shouldnt' be telling me that I can use the device I just plugged in.  that should be expected, and it should tell me if there's a good reason I can't
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah I agree... however point out the obvious is daft, it would be much more efficient to notify when /before/ I ran out
<shauno> not sure about that.  before it runs out, it should be dealing with it.  memory management is not a user's task.
<dwatkins> I have enough trouble finding my keys some days.
<shauno> if/when it can't get that right, then it's polite to offer an apology before it falls over and dies.
<shauno> the victorians would have said "little girls should be seen and not heard".  100 years later, I apply the same to my computer :)
<brobostigon> shauno: i like that analogy.
<dwatkins> Isn't that what piping to /dev/null is for? ;)
<shauno> I've no doubt in another 100 years, computers will slap me for saying it too
<brobostigon> dwatkins: or not stealing focus, yes.
 * jacobw is imagining being slapped by a computer
<shauno> it'll happen, one day.
<shauno> probably when you mention it's getting a bit sluggish and could use an upgrade.
<jacobw> lol
<brobostigon> shauno: and you try and optimise it,
<HazRPG> xD
<shauno> I'm a mac owner.  I don't optimize.  I buy something prettier :D
<brobostigon> it seems sometimes, my computer, has PD like me, and has weird xtraordinery moods.
<brobostigon> shauno: lol.
<shauno> seriously, I'm almost ashamed of how my last laptop ended up
<shauno> it used to take 14 screws to open it up.  2 of them are still there.
<brobostigon> shauno: my last laptop, my thinkpad, is lieing under my desk, still working, last time i fired it up.
<shauno> my laptop will actually disassemble itself in a good crosswind
<brobostigon> lol
<KrimZon> I was just thinking of reviving my old latitude cs 400 today
<shauno> oh it still works.  it's my minecraft server atm :)
<brobostigon> shauno: :)
<shauno> it's just a bit less portable, and a bit more ugly than it was 4 years ago
<shauno> I broke too many wee plastic tabs converting it to dvorak, so certain keys fly off if you type too fast.  or type a sentence that contains too many R's
<brobostigon> lol.
<brobostigon> again*
<shauno> it's going to find a second life tho.  mostly because I'd be ashamed to take money off someone for it.
<HazRPG> heh
<shauno> between that, a bunch of buttons I bought off dealextreme, and an oversized dell crt that's so it's beige, I think the only thing between me and a mame cabinet is laziness
<HazRPG> for a second there I thought you meant you were going to play "second life" on it xD
<shauno> *so old it's beige
<shauno> HazRPG: no.  I refuse to sink any lower than Wow
<HazRPG> shauno: heh
<HazRPG> now I feel like a dunce
<HazRPG> I played that, mainly in sandbox areas making random items - if anything I should have just learned to use blender better and would have had the same experience
<brobostigon> my dad just didnt get, when in joke, i called milton keynes a suburb of bletchley park.
<brobostigon> when the joke*
<HazRPG> to me second life was just IRC where you could make 3D objects and show off without having to take screenshots
<directhex> second life is evil.
<HazRPG> doesn't milton keynes have a concrete cow?
<shauno> I tried SL.  It seemed like IRC, where everyone has fur, and ungentlemanly intentions towards you.
<brobostigon> was that not funny,?
<directhex> SL is a horse sex simulator.
<KrimZon> I heard it has one pub
 * HazRPG recalls passing a concrete cow in my cow when I was in that general area
<shauno> directhex: that's the one
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<HazRPG> shauno: heh where did you hang out?
<HazRPG> shauno: I barely ever saw anyone to talk to, but I mainly hung out in sandboxes like I said
<HazRPG> every once in a while I would wander to the competition area of the sandbox, and see what people were creating within 30 minutes (timed competition)
<brobostigon> ok, thank you for pointing it out, i am not funny and cannot make a joke. it dont bother me anymore. i can try none-the-less.
<shauno> HazRPG: I didn't :)
<HazRPG> also script islands, to talk with other scripters to see how things were made
<shauno> I did SL roman style.  I came, I saw, I ran away and left it to the germans.
<shauno> veni, vidi, visigoths!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I didn't get it, but that's because I don't really know milton keynes nor know what bletchley park is
<HazRPG> hard to laugh at something I can't relate to
<directhex> HazRPG, bletchley park is where a gay, some poles, and some secretaries won world war 2
<HazRPG> if you said something like "It was heart warm... I'm a man, you're a man... we're both men!"
<shauno> all I know about milton keynes is that OU is there.
<shauno> directhex: that sounds like a helluva night out
<brobostigon> HazRPG: milton keynes exanded around bletchley park inthe housing boom, and colosus, alan turing's machine, was designed ansd built in bletchley.
<brobostigon> expanded*
<HazRPG> heh, ok I think I get it now then :P
<directhex> HazRPG, the enigma code, germany's secret cipher, was cracked there
<HazRPG> shauno: xD
<brobostigon> the predeccessor to ghcq was founded there.
<brobostigon> gchq*
<shauno> short version: the nerd's version of the battle of britain
<dwatkins> I've been to Bletchley, I look forward to going back again for another tour.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i want to make a peper tape for  collosus,
<brobostigon> dwatkins: and learn how to.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: nice, they seem to have rebuilt it from scratch from a few photographs and people's memories
<brobostigon> dwatkins: yes, i haveseen it, a few times.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: it is truly amazing,
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, especially considering the available technology at the time
<brobostigon> dwatkins: and what they have available now to rebuild it, aswell.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, it's unbelievable they don't have a better budget.
<ali1234> jacobw: time to play spot the difference: http://imagebin.org/146930
<ali1234> it took me about two days to set all that up
<jacobw> ali1234: no custom menu bar :o
<brobostigon> dwatkins: yes, very true.
<ali1234> and several bugs were exposed at the same time
<dwatkins> ali1234: nice font, too
<ali1234> like eg if i set the font to 11 pt instead of 10.8 pt, there is no visible difference between bold and normal
<jacobw> developers must love you :D
<ali1234> also text is not correctly vertical aligned
<ali1234> it's too near the bottom on window titles and also the task bar
<HazRPG> ali1234: urgh, that looks like kde >_<
<ali1234> HazRPG: yeah, all the bad KDE-isms are still present
<ali1234> also notice the lol-huge font on the clock
<ali1234> you can't change that
<ali1234> and you can't make the panel match the windows
<HazRPG> ali1234: that was the first thing I noticed
<ali1234> also the window docorations are not round enough
<ali1234> but this was as close as i could get
<ali1234> there are no plasma themes that don't have ugly gradients on them
<ali1234> this was the best one i could find
<ali1234> so the moral of the story, you can spend days configuring KDE, unfortunately it doesn't have an option to turn off the bugs, so it will always suck
<ali1234> gnome otoh is broken by design :)
<jacobw> does any software have an option to turn off the bugs :p
<ali1234> i dunno, but i've been complaining about misaligned fonts in KDE for about 10 years and it never gets any better
<dwatkins> Gnome and KDE are both very complex, you can't expect them to work perfectly all the time.
<dwatkins> ali1234: have you logged bugs about it?
<ali1234> no
<shauno> I never expected kde to work :/  it always seemed to be ugly by default, and provided a vast array of options to make it worse.  (again, I haven't seen it since kde2 ..)
<ali1234> i wouldn't even know where to start
<ali1234> i just stopped using KDE
<dwatkins> I agree it can be very annoying when things don't work right.
<ali1234> the general uglyness of KDE is why i switched to gnome
<ali1234> they might make bad decisions, but it's better than no decisions at all
<dwatkins> I switch to tinymc as a window border straight away, I don't like how big the borders in Gnome are
<dwatkins> sorry 'ThinMC'
<jacobw> i think worrying about uglyness misses the point of whether something is fit for purpose
<ali1234> they are both fit for purpose
<dwatkins> only by providing feedback to the developers can we improve them
<ali1234> oh i provided plenty of feedback :)
<jacobw> what do you think of unity ali1234
<dwatkins> whereabouts, ali1234?
 * jacobw realises that might be 'big question'
<ali1234> unity would be nice on a tablet, if it wasn't for the way it hides things until you mouse over them, which is impossible on a tablet. worthless for a desktop system
<ali1234> i don't need massive buttons that fill 1/4 of the screen when i'm using a keyboard + mouse
<ali1234> on a touchscreen it works
<ali1234> i particularly dislike the new startmenu though, especially the "recommended apps" part
<jacobw> i don't think the redundacy with 'internet apps' 'media apps' 'other apps'
<ali1234> overall i rate unity: not as good as hildon
<jacobw> hildon?
<dwatkins> I like fluxbox.
<ali1234> yes, hildon
<dwatkins> I still can't believe my little Eee 901 does wobbly windows.
<ali1234> jacobw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbBmfqQrsFg
<dwatkins> It's clearly time for the desktop cube...
<jacobw> is that maemo?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxG40LvV9A4&NR=1
<ali1234> yeah hildon was developed for maemo
<ali1234> maemo was always a tablet OS though, not a phone OS
<directhex> yay, hildon
<shauno> has anyone been watching the hms ark royal series on discovery?
<ali1234> and hildon is still the best working tablet UX... probably the *only* working one currently
<ali1234> so i don't see where unity fits in... it *looks* like a tablet UX with huge buttons and simplified app switching, yet it has things like menu hiding that absolutely won't work on a tablet
<ali1234> otoh on a desktop system unity looks comically huge
<ali1234> and the cut down methods just annoy
<directhex> ali1234, i think webos will fit perfectly on a tablet
<ali1234> ah webos... never tried it
<ali1234> but i was talking about open source things
<jacobw> well, i'm agnostic about unity, but i can see myself being able install unity on a novice users pc and say "just click on the application you want from the bar on the left"
<ali1234> people aren't as dumb as you think
<ali1234> if they can handle windows 7 then you bet they can handle classic gnome too
<ali1234> if they claim they can't, then they are going to "fail" at using any OS except the one they actually wanted
<HazRPG> how can they have a film called "source code" and not be able geeks?
<HazRPG> s/able/about
<directhex> HazRPG, i immediately assume that film will be terrible. the reviews say otherwise
<HazRPG> its about some dude that "mind jacks" (to use the terms a recent game calls it) into a past life of someone else...
<ali1234> it has nothing to do with source code... it's an homage to quantum leap.... meant to be quite good
<ali1234> even has cameo by scott bakula
<HazRPG> seems like just another phone booth, except their budget stretches to being able to get a hold of a moving train :/
<dwatkins> HazRPG: I wondered what that film was about, thanks for saving me the time to look into its 'plot'
<HazRPG> dwatkins: haven't seen it yet, other than trailers, but that's the gist I get... its about bombs, a guy being able to "mind jack" into some dude on a train... and he has 8 mins for each "mind jack" to stop the bomb...
<HazRPG> it just seems like it's a film that's going to loop that way
<HazRPG> its ground hog day all over again, except with bombs xD
<dwatkins> Yeah, reminds me of the awful remake of Wargames which almost made me cry.
<jacobw> i quickly get fustrated with impossible uses of tech etc in films
<dwatkins> Agreed, jacobw.
<ali1234> it's fine if it's just a plot device
<HazRPG> I thought die hard did a good job
<ali1234> which this blatantly is
<dwatkins> I find it difficult to watch any sci-fi with transporters, sometimes.
<HazRPG> loved how linux was plastered all over that :D
<ali1234> dwatkins: the fly?
<dwatkins> ali1234: yeah, although the transporter in star trek was to save money initially ;)
<dwatkins> ali1234: that's not so bad
<ali1234> (the jeff goldblum remake)
<ali1234> remakes aren't always bad
<HazRPG> two words... "help meeeeeeeeee"
<ali1234> the sequels to it though... that's another story
<shauno> I think the good ones are rarities :/
<ali1234> of course
<HazRPG> I recall the fly concepts showed up in teenage mutant ninja turtles (if someone corrects me with hero... I'll flip!)
<shauno> that said.  and I'll get tarred and feathered for this one.  I really liked the scifi channel's version of dune.  better than the lynch one.
<ali1234> shauno: they both had their good and bad points
<HazRPG> *picks up mag he bought earlier today*
<HazRPG> "Broadband Meltdown"
<ali1234> but neither is as good as the books
<HazRPG> that's the headline, I wonder what this is going to say (feels like he's missed something, reason for buying this too)
<shauno> I think the scifi channel tried harder to stay faithful
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but the characters in the lynch version are way more memorable
<ali1234> everyone in the scifi version looks the same
<shauno> difficult to emulate the books when so much of it's internal.  but they made a pretty solid effort.  especially considering it's the scifi channel.
<shauno> about the last good thing I remember them doing before they .. whatever they're doing.
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVqXE9ZY5wk vs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrG4g6yNLJU
<shauno> that just makes the scifi one look cheap :)
<ali1234> to be fair they both look pretty crappy by today's standards
<shauno> lynch undoubtably did holywood better.  but I think scifi did the story better
<ali1234> yes totally
<ali1234> the main problem i had with scifi is everyone looks like a generic 20-something actor
<ali1234> i got really confused cos i couldn't remember who was who
<hamitron> broadband meltdown? :(
<hamitron> damn this warm weather
<hamitron> I wish windows 7 had a virtual desktop option like wine does :/
<hamitron> then could run old games alongside other stuff :)
<awilkins> /me is still on Vista
<brobostigon> hamitron: cant you? i thought MS put alot of affort into backward compatibility.
<hamitron> I can't see an option...
<brobostigon> hamitron: i wouldnt know, i havent used windows after 2000, and then longhorn.
<awilkins> What about VirtualBox? It allegedly has 3D suppot
<awilkins> Might be good enough for older games
<hamitron> pffffffffft to vm "3d" is all I have to say ;/
<hamitron> only have 1 retail license also, and that is my host OS
<brobostigon> nos da everyone , sleep well.
<awilkins> I only have Windows for games now...
<awilkins> If only I could become enlightened and adopt purer pursuits.
<jacobw> minecraft is a purer pursuit :p
<hamitron> yeh, that is my me also awilkins
<hamitron> :)
<awilkins> I have the box set of "The Art of Computer Programming" coming soon. That should keep me busy.
<hamitron> I am reading up on the skills required for making games....
<hamitron> but I need entertainment still
<jacobw> maths and maths and more maths as far as i can tell :p
<hamitron> I like maths
<hamitron> ;/
<awilkins> Trig, matrices
<hamitron> still torn between C and C++
<hamitron> if to bother using SDL
<jacobw> i do like maths, but i don't know as much as i should
<awilkins> I think games tend to be C++ these days, but I know nothing.
<jacobw> my knowledge is gleaned from reading about how andrew wiles solved fermats last theorum :|
<hamitron> most are C++, yeh
<hamitron> but I am familiar with C
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> c is smelly
<directhex> like bums
<awilkins> And my C is very rusty (never really progressed past fooling with Amiga compilers)
<directhex> bums that are smelly
<hamitron> haha dh
<directhex> not clean bums, obviously
<hamitron> I could start coding something now, if I was to use C
<hamitron> but I am thinking it would be better in the long run to learn C++ first
 * jacobw makes a joke about introspection
<directhex> c, like c++, has a specific use case. if you write gui code in c or c++, you're doing it wrong.
<hamitron> then use fun projects to practice C++
<awilkins> Yeah, no wonder wht all those game guys do is write a Lua engine and then write their game logic in Lua
<directhex> or python, or c#
<directhex> or something home-made
<hamitron> or tcl
<directhex> but yes, it's a good example. graphics backend in c(++), anything user-centric in a higher-level language the designers can write in
<awilkins> Did anything come of that game where you could send units back to the past?
<directhex> hamitron, i've never seen a game with tcl in it
<awilkins> And they could fight alongside themselves?
<directhex> awilkins, i've only seen that in puzzle games
<hamitron> directhex: I think one of my books uses it for the scripting part
<awilkins> this was an RTS
<awilkins> Forgotten it's name.
<hamitron> it does :D
<ali1234> wasn't that red alert 2?
<hamitron> "Programming Linux Games" by John R. Hall
<directhex> maddog?
<awilkins> That was just an effect that made a unit immune to damage for a while - this is a full on proper time-travel RTS with timelines and butterfly effect
<jacobw> time travelling RTS :o
<hamitron> I recall something about that
<jacobw> ordinary RTS fry my brain enough
<awilkins> Achron
<ali1234> so is there any good rts game on linux?
<ali1234> maybe a mod for spring with sensible graphics?
<hamitron> something 2100
<awilkins> There's a port of Earth 2100
<ali1234> played that one
<jacobw> running linux is an rts game in itself :p
<directhex> the new oil rig thing?
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> it's called warzone 2100
<hamitron> yeh warzone, it worth playing?
<ali1234> it's too complicated
<andylockran> hey guys
<hamitron> I heard similar from others
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> i think i remember playing warzone 2100 on the ps1?
<andylockran> I've installed an entropykey and have ekeyd listening on external ip port 888
<andylockran> 8888
<ali1234> yeah it was commercial, went open source
<jacobw> cool :)
<ali1234> i like RTS games where i can implicitly understand the units
<andylockran> I want to connect an egd daemon to it - but when I do (egd-linux) it doesn't seem to populate the kernel entropy pool in teh same was that ekeyd does when set to kernel mode
<hamitron> I really want Enemy Nations to be ported now the source is open, but not sure about the license :/
<directhex> andylockran, several simtec people in #debian-uk
<ali1234> so basically have it set in the real world
<jacobw> its quite exciting actually that this game i used to play is now open source
<ali1234> it certainly runs well
<directhex> jacobw, quake 3?
<ali1234> i just don't like it as a game
<jacobw> that's another one i guess
<andylockran> directhex: thanks
<hamitron> I've heard warzone 2100 is overly complicated, so if you play online you get whooped by people who know it too well :/
<jacobw> i was talking about this warzone 2100 though
<andylockran> directhex: which irc server?
<andylockran> ping merriam_
<directhex> oftc
<andylockran> Mez
<awilkins> This achron game is selling pre order betas - and supports Linux (amd64) - ooooo.
<awilkins> May have discovered what to do with my remaining leave....
<hamitron> only 64 bit?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-07
<awilkins> Currently
<awilkins> Planned 32 bit
<awilkins> I'm on 64 anyway to support ludicrous Java RAM gobblers
<hamitron> like minecraft
<hamitron> ;/
<directhex> oh, of course, sims medieval i sims 3 engine, so is mono-based
<ali1234> what is local type inference?
<hamitron> ali1234: I cheated and used google http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb384937.aspx#Y200
<ali1234> yeah i don't understand that
<hamitron> sounds like some sort of guessing the variable type
<ali1234> it reads like, if applied to C, it means you could write "x = 10;" instead of "int x = 10;" ... but only inside a function...
<hamitron> not something I've ever used, when mostly coding in C
<ali1234> i don't see how that makes any sense or is useful to anyone at all
<hamitron> useful for scripting
<hamitron> or lazy people
<ali1234> how?
<ali1234> most scripting languages are weakly typed anyway
<hamitron> my opinion is coders are been given the tools to get sloppier and sloppier, and some are not gaining a lot of the skills required to be "reliable"
<hamitron> when coding with older methods
<ali1234> either i'm misunderstanding this, or it's just another dumb idea presented as the fix for all problems
<hamitron> I suspect it is what you think
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> mother's day email offers for last few weeks.... now the easter offers :/
<ali1234> http://www.mono-project.com/MoMA <- is this thingumy packaged on ubuntu?
<hamitron> ali1234: wouldn't most people test such things on windows before switching everything?
<directhex> ali1234, no. there's not much point since you want the latest version with the latest sigantures
<ali1234> hamitron: that's not really the point, it's a mono app, should run anywhere
<hamitron> ah, k
<directhex> it runs fine.
<ali1234> directhex: actually what i would want is a version that matches the version of mono on ubuntu, so it can tell me if some random mono app i downloaded will work or not
<directhex> but it's not hugely valuable to package
<directhex> ali1234, oh... i see. that's a reasonable idea
<ali1234> not that i download mono/.net apps or anything :)
<hamitron> ali1234: you just wanted to clear that up? ;)
<ali1234> yes :)
<ali1234> do windows users still download random shareware apps from websites?
 * hamitron does
<ali1234> eg tucows, are they still going?
<ali1234> i mean the aggregator sites... or do most people go to the developer's site these days?
<ali1234> tucows was basically an appstore before anyone even heard of an appstore
<hamitron> things are still about, but I've grown out/tired of breaking things
<hamitron> ali1234: lies, Apple invented it
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> i thought valve invented it
<hamitron> :))
<directhex> ali1234 earns a wry smile
<directhex> isn't apt-get the first app store? :>
<ali1234> no, cos you can't browse with apt-get
<hamitron> suppose a ftp server with loads of apps for download is....
<ali1234> tucows had screenshots and reviews of apps in like 1996
<gord> tucows was all shareware and demos, you couldn't buy anything - it was just a file server really
<hamitron> so an appstore is like a fileserver, but demands money for individual things....?
<ali1234> i think there was a a similar site where you could buy shareware stuff
<ali1234> probably called "downloadbestwindowsshareware.com" or something
<ali1234> 99% of those domains are virus sites now
<shauno> tucows is pretty much a scumbucket now too :/
<ali1234> man, i remember the days when we laughed at the idea of getting a virus on email
<hamitron> computers and the internet are just a "tool" for the masses now
<shauno> this is just the usual trolling tho :/
<hamitron> not much better than tv
<hamitron> I hate the term trolling
<hamitron> ;/
<shauno> irks me when people pick a falsehood and run it into the ground
<shauno> apple don't claim to have invented the appstore concept/model.  they just trademarked 'app store' itself, because they were the first to name it that.
<shauno> but feel free to whine away about who claims they invented what :)
<hamitron> I hate claims to general terms too
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> man, I need to stop moaning :/
<ali1234> who actually did invent it though?
 * txwikinger seriously doubts the trademark would stand up if challenged
<ali1234> txwikinger: it's being challenged now i thought?
<shauno> it has & is being challenged.
<txwikinger> A grocery cannot trademark the term apple
<txwikinger> Yeah I think so
<shauno> if this is such a general term, who else was using it?
<hamitron> did MS get the right to the term "Windows"?
<txwikinger> it is not about using it
<shauno> sure it is.
<ali1234> apple vs amazon
<ali1234> so, amazon
<txwikinger> if it is a term that is in general use in your field of business, you cannot trademark it - does not matter what
<txwikinger> hamitron: Windows is different
<shauno> so "general use" = "a term no-one ever used" ?
<txwikinger> no.. it has to be a general term in your field of business
<shauno> okay, who in that field of business was using it
<hamitron> the term "app" has been used for a long time, and a "store" is too
<txwikinger> The beatles where able to trademark the term Apple records or whatever, since an apple has nothing to do with music
<shauno> yes, because trademarks are always in context
<txwikinger> A super market could never trademark the term apple
<txwikinger> App is clearly a term in general use in the software business
<ali1234> i'm sure they could if apple was a brand applied to many products other than apples
<shauno> it is now, because everyone's trying to emulate their success.
<shauno> fact is, "app store" was not a common term, at all, by any reach of the imagination, before apple launched a product named thus.
<txwikinger> Well.  application and short app was used for a long time
<ali1234> it's just "hoover" all over again
<ali1234> they have to defend it
<txwikinger> I think app shop was
<ali1234> apple could have called it "whargarble" and now everyone would be trying to make their own "whargarble"
<txwikinger> yep
<shauno> right.  and everyone would be claiming that whargarble was a perfectly common term :)
<txwikinger> app store is like if a grocery would trademark the term grocery
<ali1234> it's more like if the first ever supermarket had tried to trademark the word supermarket
<hamitron> "whargarble" does not use any terms in it
<directhex> it's spelt wharrgarbl
<ali1234> no, wharrgarbl is a common term, you can;t trademark that :)
<directhex> :>
<hamitron> I dunno why they don't just shut the door, so others can't move in on their market
<hamitron> by offering good value and service
<ali1234> actually there is a similar example: 7-eleven is trademarked
<ali1234> even though you might argue it's a common term, at least in america
<shauno> 'windows' is trademarked.  you can trademark generic terms within specific scopes.
<hamitron> shauno: that is silly too
<shauno> sure.  but otherwise there'd be nothing stopping me launching a magazine in the UK named 'computer shopper'.  I mean.  they're generic terms.
<hamitron> and I'd agree you should be able to
<PalaPad_> Trademark only applies if someone is trying to mislead others with an association to a registered Mark
<PalaPad_> Just using the phrase app store would not be likely to lead to a successful case in court
<PalaPad_> Mark holder needs to proves that the defendant is trying to mislead or consume others
<PalaPad_> Rem silly iPad
<PalaPad_> Mislead others
<hamitron> reckon Apple own "i"?
<shauno> so you're telling me that a US court would agree that apple computer was trying to mislead customers by conflicting with apple records?
<ali1234> there have been a few cases over iWhatevers
<PalaPad_> So unless apple can prove that someone is trying to make people believe another app store is associated with apple or likely to lead people to believe it is, apple will not win
<hamitron> I reckon Apple are trying to implement the I-Robot movie
<PalaPad_> And that is why apple are likely to lose this one
<hamitron> and it is all gonna go wrong
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> handy checklist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_litigation_of_Apple_Computer
<PalaPad_> Because ms can make reasoned arguments that no-one will confuse Ms app store with apple app store
<ali1234> intel's is called "appup"
<PalaPad_> Given the high profile of both brands
<shauno> I think the catch there is that it's rarely referred to as 'the apple app store'.  it's just "on the app store".
<PalaPad_> Furthermore windows apps will not work on iOS
<PalaPad_> So apple have very little chance of winning this battle
<ali1234> that's the killer
<shauno> and I do believe MS are intentionally piggybacking that because their 900-odd apps can't compete otherwise.
<ali1234> there's no way you can accidentally buy from the wrong one
<PalaPad_> The only reason they are trying to enforce the trademark is for publicity really
<shauno> because they need lawsuits for publicity?  for the 7 remaining people who haven't heard of them?
<shauno> you can very easily be mislead into buying the wrong one
<PalaPad_> They need to show they are not afraid of Microsoft
<PalaPad_> It is just a big pr game
<PalaPad_> Plus it would make it difficult for apple to then defend other trademarks against smaller companies
<shauno> you hear some new racing game is out on the app store.  so you pull out your windows phone, punch up the clone store, and find ... what.
<PalaPad_> They would be seen as vexatious
<hamitron> they were never given the set of toy soldiers they wanted as a kid.....
<PalaPad_> Brb food
<shauno> you certainly don't get told "no, this is halfords, we sell airfreshners.  you were looking for metal in the record store".  you get sold some subpar crap and the sale is hijacked.
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> but you're just as likely to buy some knock-off from the real appstore
<shauno> and that maybe is exactly what MS are trying to gain, because their platform hasn't found any other way to compete
<hamitron> tbh, it is tough drawing a line :/
<hamitron> non-generic terms of today will be accepted and thought of as generic tomorrow.... but then if someone who started it has the "rights" you can't have competition
<shauno> sure you can.  you just don't call it the same thing.
<shauno> you can sell a cooker without calling it an aga.
<shauno> this isn't any kind of rights over the model.  just the name.
<hamitron> what about the term podcasts?
<directhex> "app store" is pretty freaking generic
<directhex> hamitron, that's a more interesting case, since it's based on a trademark - but isn't quite, and isn't apple's term to begin with
<shauno> people keep saying this.  yet no-one can actually show it being used pre-apple
<ali1234> we used to call it "downloading an mp3"
<hamitron> well, podcast is a generic term now, used on a lot of websites
<shauno> I mean appstore.  podcast was derivative but never anyone's to lose
<ali1234> i don't like inventing new terms for things anyway
<hamitron> if you assume apple do have the right to it.... how do other manufacturers "support" podcasts with their products?
<ali1234> they should have called the ipod "the portable music in mp3 format listening box with white headphones"
<directhex> i can see apple trying to lay claim to "app".
<hamitron> haha ali1234
<shauno> that's what makes it completely different to "grocery store".  no-one called it an app store before them.  it was never generic.
<hamitron> it is 2 generic terms
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> so's safeway
<ali1234> this is a pointless argument anyway, since the outcome of the case basically defines what the law says
<ali1234> when it's decided then we can argue about if the judge made the right decision
<hamitron> "debate" ;)
<hamitron> argue sounds like we are biting chunks out of each other :/
<ali1234> i just wanted to know how windows users get software these days
<shauno> I just wanted to point out that "haha, no apple invented the app store wink wink" was just FUD  :)
<hamitron> "I am a windows user and get my apps from the web, and I have another program called AVG that automatically uninstalls them after use"
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> i guess the answer is they add them on facebook
<PalaPad_> It is all very well getting emotional, but from a legal perspective apple have very little chance of winning this
<hamitron> so what is the best way to make a new trademark to work under?
<PalaPad_> And as a legal scholar I say that with some educated confidence
<hamitron> as an engineer I love attempting stuff, but the idea of all the legal stuff is just scarey
<shauno> so, <company> names their online _music_ store "itunes" in the face of apple's "itunes" trademark, apple wins
<PalaPad_> Law is my life and I love it
<shauno> then <company> names their online _software_ store "app store" in the face of apple's "app store" trademark, and apple doesn't win
<PalaPad_> But if apple had called iTunes "music Store" theynwould face the same difficulty they face in the app store case
<hamitron> loosely related.... can someone patent an idea they can't get to work? just the general principle?
<shauno> hamitron: currently, yes
<PalaPad_> Ish
<ali1234> hamitron: there's loads of patents like that
<hamitron> yeh
<PalaPad_> A patent has to be accompanied with diagrams
<hamitron> but do they stand up?
<ali1234> for whacky stuff like pyramid healing and stuff
<shauno> you can patent whatever you like.  the more stupid it is, the less chance it'll stand at dispute
<PalaPad_> But the diagrams can be loosely conceptual
<hamitron> I saw a patent for a client-server model for online gaming
<hamitron> with block diagrams
<PalaPad_> The diagrams have to be such that anyone with equal skill could reproduce the thing being patented
<PalaPad_> So strictly speaking you can't patent an idea as a concept
<hamitron> my personal attitude is if I made something and it clashed with it, I'd give them the middle finger if they complained
<ali1234> anyone can build a patended device, you just can't sell it
<PalaPad_> Yes
<ali1234> and if you're selling it you have something to lose by doing that
<PalaPad_> But the patent has to provide all the information needed to make that "device"
<PalaPad_> Which is why software patents are so controversial
<ali1234> yes. that doesn't guarantee that it actually *works* though
<hamitron> PalaPad_: so a car that powers itself off the air around it is not worth the paper it is written on?
<PalaPad_> Not unless you can show how and others can reproduce from that explanation
<PalaPad_> Although the caveat is US patents usually don't follow the rles
<PalaPad_> Rules
<ali1234> http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/D245233.html
<ali1234> dowsing rod patent
<ali1234> anyone can build it, doesn't mean it will work though
<PalaPad_> Patents are only as good as the patent office overseeing applications
<PalaPad_> And US patent office is a joke
<hamitron> 1 area I am interested in, is researching renewable forms of energy
<hamitron> but a lot have taken gambles in general principles
<hamitron> and when you read some of them you think, "why bother?"
<PalaPad_> Anyway I am gonna watch a movie, didn't get home from meeting til 1am so need to chillax a bit
<hamitron> okies, take care
<hamitron> :)
<PalaPad_> Finally get to go home tomorrow :)
<PalaPad_> Will be nice to see my son and missus again
<shauno> someone in the US managed to patent the act of patent trolling :/
<hamitron> hahaha
<shauno> well, I shouldn't say managed.  it was filed atleast
<PalaPad_> Haliburton
<ali1234> halliburton?
<PalaPad_> Haliburton filed a patent on filing patents
<PalaPad_> iirc
<hamitron> patent trolling would even break the patent for filing patents ;)
<hamitron> if they were accepted ofc
<Seeker`> lo
<PalaPad_> Lo
<Azelphur> High
<PalaPad_> Not tonight
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> evening chaps
<hamitron> :)
<PalaPad_> Although I am the wrong side of 6 double G&Ts
 * Seeker` has been wasting his time starting to write a raytracer
<hamitron> wasted my evening talking in here, wasted my day with phone calls and problems
<hamitron> got nothing productive done, like gaming
<hamitron> ;/
<PalaPad_> Spent my evening in a meeting
<directhex> sponsored lots of packages
<Seeker`> http://cjo20.net/rubbishray
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> 5 hours left for sleep
<hamitron> so better get off
<hamitron> o/
<shauno> someone really needs to come out with some new drive enclosures.  trying to read 500Gb over usb is pretty weak :/
<directhex> shauno, thunderbolt!
<shauno> I know! but no-one's actually selling them yet :/
<shauno> still waiting to find out what the price is gonna be on http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10549
<MattJ> Seeker`: aspiring name :)
<MattJ> and congratulations for being the reason I've opened my first .bmp file for almost 10 years
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> seems we had a bit of a breakup on the server but we are all back together again... morning \o
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> morning everybody
<MartijnVdS> \o
<knightwise> o/
<knightwise> how are you MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> brak :)
<shauno> Silly question, but anyone know how to change keymap from the xp login screen?
<knightwise> in Xp thats still a registry fix
<knightwise> google " Xp login screen keyboard layout reg fix"
<knightwise> http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic21320.html
<shauno> Hm. Bit stuffed until I can login then
<HazRPG> shauno: having issues with the dvorak :( ?
<HazRPG> did you not install it with the dvorak keyset?
<shauno> ahhhh numpad to the rescue
<HazRPG> ?
<shauno> much better :D
<shauno> for reasons probably best known to windows, my login screen was set to USian when I got in this morning
<shauno> .... my password contains a Â£
<shauno> *thunk*
<HazRPG> shauno: heh I use brackets in mine
<HazRPG> can't imagine how confusing it is when my laptop plays funny with me and decides that the arabic keyset is my default :/
<shauno> when they came up with this stupid requirement for special characters in passwords, I resorted to using ex-gf's phone numbers while holding down shift.
<HazRPG> xD
<shauno> may have to rethink this if I can't trust the layout :(
<HazRPG> wait, who came up with the requirement? work?
<shauno> yeah
<HazRPG> oh, if your going to change your passwords... for the love of god don't use unprintables >_<
<HazRPG> I have a friend who set his password to half things like ALT+192 etc...
<HazRPG> s/half/have
<shauno> apparently, so did I.  I just didn't find out until this morning
<shauno> :<
<HazRPG> and well when he went to change his windows password... it wouldn't let him because it couldn't recognise the characters
<HazRPG> yet windows would let him enter it on startup!
<HazRPG> (use the password I mean)
<HazRPG> which to me means they have two methods for some reason to check the password :S
<knightwise> Dear God ! Unprintable passwords
<shauno> they most likely do, especially if he's usint the ctrl+alt+delete to login thingie
<HazRPG> knightwise: its great because they're hard to bruteforce... but not so great when things won't let you change them xD
<shauno> I can't remember what linux calls that, it's one of the SysRq incantations
<HazRPG> SysRq??
<HazRPG> I know the CTRL+ALT+DEL login thing
<HazRPG> "press combo to begin login"
<shauno> I think it's sysrq+K (but don't try it, because magic keys are less forgiving than my memory)
<shauno> switches to some kind of raw keyboard access so you know the program you're typing into is the only one receiving the keypresses
<shauno> (which is the intention with ctrl+alt+del too.  if it's the wrong app, it'll kick you back to the xp security dialog)
<gordonjcp> well
<HazRPG> oh right, I didn't realise that
<gordonjcp> historically ctrl-alt-del is actually detected by the keyboard controller and hardwired to a particular interrupt
<shauno> ah, yeah; definately don't try sysrq+K at the bequest of my memory :)
<shauno> "Kill all processes on the current virtual console (Can be used to kill X and svgalib programs, see below)
<HazRPG> I won't :P
<shauno> This was originally designed to imitate a Secure Access Key@
<HazRPG> hmm, seems I've ran out of stuff to drink at home :/
<shauno> if you do it at a tty login tho, you'll kill  everything, respawn a getty, so you know you're getting the login bin the system intends
<HazRPG> so coffee it is I guess
<HazRPG> ah cool
<daubers> Morning
<shauno> not sure ubuntu has sysrq enabled out of the box, but interesting to know that ancient variants of 'ctrl+alt+del to login' are still knocking around :)
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> what's more interesting is the fact that SysRq still gets printed on the keyboard!
<HazRPG> along with Pause/Break
<HazRPG> and scroll lock
<shauno> sysrq should :D  it's really useful once you grow to trust it
<HazRPG> I'm pretty sure scroll lock is only useful if your at a terminal/command prompt of some description
<MooDoo> hello all
<shauno> not sure scroll lock is any use unless the bios is handling the terminal.  which we don't tend to do anymore, because it's uglier than I am
<shauno> morning daubers, MooDoo
<HazRPG> mornin' guys
<HazRPG> shauno: that was what I kinda meant in my own quirky way
<shauno> sysrq is useful all over again now that I've discovered you can use it without a local keyboard now :)
<shauno> anyhow.  taking 90 minutes to login to windows is my new favourite way to start a shift.
<shauno> I'm still waiting for MIS to find me.  thank $deity for internets phones.
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas based maybe? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQjJEYTiga0
<shauno> fear & loathing is when you call MIS because you're the only person on shift and you don't have a computer
<shauno> and a lady in singapore answers
<shauno> 'follow the sun' can bite me, frankly
<HazRPG> "Don't move!"
<HazRPG> "I'm not moving!"
<HazRPG> I suppose I should get some work done today :/
<HazRPG> *grumbles about having to see a shoddy database*
<daubers> HazRPG: You can go and train people for me instead if you want
<HazRPG> daubers: lol only if you'll build the website I need to make for me ^^
<daubers> HazRPG: Or! You can teach me how to do 3d design properly :)
 * daubers goes to load up the car with heavy expensive things :(
<shauno> downside of v6 addresses, is they're not quite so elegant, are they :/
<UndiFineD> hmm
<MartijnVdS> shauno: they can be
<MartijnVdS> shauno: 2001:abcd::dead:beef:cafe
<shauno> MartijnVdS: I have dead:beef at home :D
<shauno> I noticed facebook's god nerded too
<shauno> er, *got
<shauno> www.v6.facebook.com     has AAAA address 2620:0:1cfe:face:b00c::3
<MartijnVdS> 2001::faec:e5 8-)
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I like to think face:b00c is evidence that someone trapped in a basement somewhere actually has a sense of humour
<dwatkins> hi folks
<dwatkins> is it IPv6 day?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: not yet, but you may assume it is ;)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: every day should be IPv6 day, of course...
<knightwise> hmm gnome 3 demo video's on Lifehacker
<knightwise> interesting
<phonex01> hello guys
<phonex01> how can i make FTP server on my own laptop so i can login to it and manage users and such things
<phonex01> i mean local FTP serve
<phonex01> server
<MartijnVdS> !ftp
<lubotu3> FTP clients: Nautilus (Places -> Connect to server), gFTP, FileZilla (for !GNOME); Konqueror, Kasablanca, KFTPGrabber (for !KDE); FireFTP (for Firefox); ftp, lftp (for !cli) - See also !FTPd
<MartijnVdS> !ftpd
<lubotu3> FTP servers: ftpd, proftpd, pure-ftpd, twoftpd, vsftpd, MuddleFTPd, wzdftpd - Graphical front-ends: PureAdmin, GProftpd (for GNOME), KcmPureftpd (for !KDE) - See also !FTP
<czajkowski> aloha
<dwatkins> hihi
<dwatkins> knightwise: I really like lifehacker, some amazingly useful stuff on there
<knightwise> indeed
<knightwise> i just dont like the new blog layout
<knightwise> so i just read the rss feeds
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<knightwise> hey bigcalm
<oo> Hey
<DJones> Morning oo, did you manage to get your computer sorted out
<AlanBell> o/ ivanka
<ivanka> AlanBell: hello!
<popey> morning all
<AlanBell> ivanka: can you pop in to #ubuntu-accessibility
<oimon> anyone see the late april fools joke on slashdot? http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/07/0212222/France-Outlaws-Hashed-Passwords
<ivanka> AlanBell: sure - will add it to my chats
<bigcalm> Afternoon popey
<bigcalm> I forget, how does one clean out unwanted kernals, the 'propper' way (not just deleting from /boot and editing the grub menu)
<bigcalm> ?
<oimon> bigcalm: ubuntu tweak has an option for that, or there's a big ugly one-liner to do it too
<knightwise> ive taken a look at commodore64.net
<knightwise> i think its vaporware though
<bigcalm> oimon: might be quicker for me to hover /boot myself
<gpd> knightwise: i ended up at commodore64.org ... very differnt!
<oo> DJones: Yeah i managed to get a cd drive for it, and installed from there :)
<safiyyah> morning guys
<gpd> knightwise: I still have my Amiga 500 in the cellar... :)
<MartijnVdS> 500 girlfriends in the cellar?
<shauno> I still have my 1200 on my desk :D
<gpd> I'm still using an Amstrad 1512 (lies)
<shauno> my 1200 is in 4 peices atm  (not lies :()
<gpd> however, I think i'd rather play Portal 2 than dig out the old games...
 * gpd ducks
<bigcalm> Not long now
<gpd> bigcalm: 17th right?
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> I haven't looked at steam recently
<bigcalm> This month though
<bigcalm> Either 17th or 27th
<bigcalm> 19th heh
<gpd> I have a horrible feeling they might have ruined it
<bigcalm> Ooo, there's a new video
<gpd> the end songwith the cake was a master piece
<gpd> game.co.uk says 21/04
 * MartijnVdS ordered it from Amazon
<MartijnVdS> for PS3
<bigcalm> I'm looking at it on the steam store
<bigcalm> Release Date: 19 Apr 2011
<safiyyah> is compiz an American room?
<shauno> I'm not sure it's meant to be geocentric, but chances are a good few idlers in there would be currently asleep
<safiyyah> anyone here know about resetting compiz back to defaults?
<DJones> safiyyah: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ubuntu-tip-how-to-reset-compiz-settings-to-default-system-settings-from-command-line.html
<safiyyah> DJones, thanx
<winterweaver> What does the last part of the if statement do in this script? http://dpaste.com/529560/    .... I'm referring to the "| wc -l` -lt 1" bit
<dwatkins> winterweaver: if it is 'less than' 1
<dwatkins> -lt as opposed to -gt etc. as comparisons in bash
<dwatkins> the backticks surrounding the ps command mean that it is executed and the result is then used
<winterweaver> aaaah ok
<winterweaver> and the pipe to wc -l ?
<dwatkins> that redirects the output to the wc command, you'll find details of the option on the manpage, i.e. at the terminal execute: man wc
<winterweaver> ok thx
<dwatkins> or just google 'man wc' like I do when I'm lazy
<dwatkins> be aware there are sometimes different versions of  commands with different options, however
<winterweaver> ok thank you I see now how the command works :)
<dwatkins> excellent
<AlanBell> or type man:wc into firefox
<hoover> good mornin
<smittix> Morning
<oimon> man:wc is nicer in konqueror :P
<smittix> Why the hell can i not get a route out of my natty installation
<hoover> whats wrong smittix?
<hoover> Have you tried setting it manually?
<smittix> Yeah I always do it manually
<smittix> It just doesn't work, It say's its there but no connection
<smittix> On my maverick box it works fine
<hoover> ok Weird... have you checked netstat -nr?
<smittix> I think I did last time i tried. Going to try again in a mo
<smittix> plus fglrx doesnt work for me
<smittix> bah
<Laney> schoolboy error
<Laney> shorts + t-shirt to work
<Laney> and now it's cold :'(
<oimon> lol
<oimon> yesterday i wore 4 layers and had the opposite problem
<oimon> redhat just released a glibc update that crashes evolution when sending mail :S
<shauno> working as intended!
<oimon> reported 5 april, no fix yet
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> ali1234: you there? i had some info regarding testing of the gvfs problem
<smittix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey/+bug/751714
<smittix> Submitted that bug and got a reply saying it was a duplicate of another - The bug that it was supposed to be a duplicate of doesnt exist :/
<popey> it probably does
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> it's probably a private bug
<popey> bug 749660
<smittix> ahh ok
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 749660 could not be found
<oimon> smittix: crash reports are usually marked private by default in case of private info. then they are made public afterwards
<Laney> i made it public for you
<Laney> â¥
<smittix> Ahh thanks :
<popey> bah
<PalaPad_> Yay on way home for 1st time in a week :)
<smittix> what's up popey ?
<PalaPad_> Hey popes
<smittix> Now to see if FGLRX works.
<popey> smittix: i was trying to explain the issue you have to a launchpad developer
<popey> with whom I have discussed private bugs in the past
<popey> and how _people_ making public bugs dupes of private bugs is annoying
<popey> apport retracing doing that is even more annoying
<popey> but now Laney has made it public, you can't see the annoyance as easily
<smittix> I understand
<Laney> it's not hard to understand the annoyance conceptually
<popey> sure, and the comments make it clear
<oimon> there's an easy solution..instead of "bug number doesn't exist", LP should say, this is a private bug
<oimon> it's just a papercut though, LP is a squillion times better than any other bug tracker out there though
<Laney> I have a soft spot for the BTS, but maybe I like baroque email-driven interfaces
<popey> oimon: actually it did used to say "private bug" but the lp developers saw that as a security risk
<popey> so they deliberately made launchpad say "not found" for bugs which are private
<oimon> hmm
<shauno> are bugs numbered sequentially?
<popey> yes
<shauno> and getting deleted isn't a common case.  they get closed with a reason.  so if one is missing from sequence, it's probably private :)
<popey> yup
<davmor2> shauno: it's safe to assume that than anything else :)
<oimon> a missing bug is a private one 99 times out of 100 , but it's not allowed to say so definitively. hmmm
<Laney> well, that and Launchpad allowed one to be marked as a duplicate of the other
<Laney> referential integrity says that it must exist
<oimon> that sounds like a solution dreamed up by the consultants my employer is currently using
<smittix> Weird, Fresh install of natty and FGLRX works fine
<smittix> and it's allowing me to use that alternative route
<oimon> banshee decided to play the machinarium soundtrack to me, it's a free download. it's actually rather good
<directhex> i like the world of goo soundtrack
<directhex> which is also free
<imexil> Hi, does anybody know how to REPLACE the "Chat client" entry in the notification area of Natty so that pidgin is always started instead of empathy (it happens that I click simply on the chat entry instead of the pidgin entry and then the awful empathy is started)
<oimon> yeah, i have that too
<oimon> anyone know how to take screenshots of iphone or android screens?
<bigcalm> Haha, that was silly. My home grown url shortener service just shortened (in tweetdeck) a pre-shortened URL from the same service. I should fix that.
<shauno> oimon: for iphone, hold the home button, and click the top (sleep) button
<shauno> (home won't act until you release it)
<oimon> shauno: thanks.
<shauno> you should get the same sound & animation as when you take a photo, and it'll end up the same place a photo would
<oimon> imexil: i'm a pidgin user on lucid an never got it working either :(
<directhex> android i use ddvm
<directhex> from the android sdk
<directhex> sorry, ddms
<oimon> directhex: you install that on your pc or phone?
<oimon> never used the sdk
<directhex> ddms is the android debugger. you install it on your pc, and enable usb debugging on your phone
<BigRedS> oimon: I've only done it through aPC
 * oimon starts reading about the SDK
<directhex> http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2008/10/22/taking-screenshots-on-an-android-based-phone/
<oimon> many thx
<popey> madness
<popey> why did google make it so hard to take a screenshot?
<davmor2> popey: who needs to take a screenshot of their phone?
<oimon> ME!
<popey> i do, regularly
<oimon> lots of apps in the market , for rooted phones only
<MartijnVdS> popey: probably to make it harder for mobile viruses (or something) to take repeated screenshots while entering a password or something
<davmor2> popey: I'm guessing we are the exception to the rule
<MartijnVdS> popey: "another vector blocked"
<MartijnVdS> s/virus/any kind of malware/ really
<popey> it doesnt have to be exposed as an API
<davmor2> popey: you think that is hard try taking a quick screenshot in Windows
<imexil> oimon: Too bad but thanks
<shauno> if your screen is flashing and playing the camera sound when you're entering a password, alarm bell
<popey> davmor2: no, i dont believe we are exceptions
<shauno> if your password is on screen in a format that's capturable by screenshot, alarm bell :p
<popey> I frequently see twitpics of people's phones
<oimon> it shows the letter you are typing as you type
<popey> the fact that its just two buttons to press on an iphone makes it easy
<popey> so people do it
<oimon> ****r
<popey> and the screen flashes so you know when its happening
<shauno> oimon: yeah, but it's really not a subtle effect.  it flashes like when you take a photo
<shauno> if it's flashing away like paparazi, you'll notice
<popey> interestingly you can take a screenshot on an iphone when it's locked
<popey> you could DDOS the phone by filling it up
<davmor2> popey: So you're average user want to regularly take screenshots of their phone?  Funny I've never heard anyone say that in a phone shop, or the lug, or friends and family, or see it a lot online....
<popey> thats not what i said
<popey> hey ho, I'm not going to argue the toss about it
<popey> fact is its easy on iphone and hard/impossible on stock android
<shauno> I saw more screenshots than I'd ever want to during twitter's *cough*bar controversy :/
<popey> heh, yeah
<directhex> android's security model makes taking screenshots HARD.
<davmor2> popey: Sorry couldn't resist.  My point was if we are the minority that want to take screenshots then we become the exception to the rule rather than the rule.  I am however surprised that some enterprising sole hasn't seen it as a flaw in the system and create a screenshot tool for android.
<popey> there are tools for android
<popey> they require root
<oimon> i'm creating a tutorial for users to setup activesync
<popey> its not about rules and exceptions to rules
<popey> fact is people use devices in different ways
<shauno> I don't believe it's easy in ios.  it's not a public api.  apps don't have simultaneous access to the screen.  your app can't screenshot mine.
<davmor2> popey: need to talk to X (or whatever framebuffer they use) I guess and root is the only user that can?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: set it up so it randomly wipes the boss' phone :)
<popey> davmor2: i have no idea about the technical details
<oimon> i am the boss :(
<popey> just that it doesnt work
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=iphone%20screenshot&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1130&bih=613
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ok someone you don't like then
<popey> lots of people take screenshots
<popey> i do not believe that counts as "exception"
<smittix> I use Munch on Blackberry
<oimon> popey: they takes them because they can. android users can't so they don't. i agree that it's dumb though
<popey> they take them because they need to
<shauno> I think the most telling thing, is what this would read like the other way around
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=android%20screenshot&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1130&bih=613
<popey> almost all taken with the dev kit
<popey> and using the sdk is massively niche
<shauno> if android made it easy and apple made it dev-only, it'd be the oss vs imperial march  :p
 * oimon wonders if it is rasied as a bug/feature request  somehwere
<directhex> yes, but you need to wait 90-120 days to see it
<oimon> yay managed my first screen capture :P
<oimon> easy when you know how COUGH SPLUTTER* *$&*"
<shauno> vaguely related, but possibly more interesting, atari released their '100 greatest hits' on ios last night.  well worth a look if you have a freedom hating handset and a retro bias (12eur for all 100)
<oimon> i like how you can perform a screen capture while touching a menu on the screen to highlight it
<shauno> this has made my morning much more noisy :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] PRE Ordering Natty Narwhal CDs - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/04/07/pre-ordering-natty-narwhal-cds/
<Mez> andylockran: ?
<Mez> andylockran: ekey stuff?
 * oimon thinks the installer also needs a button for "bring out the gimp" - who doesn't have it installed, after all?
<shauno> o/
<dwatkins> but the gimp's sleeping
<MooDoo> ooo how many cd's is this loco ordering :D
 * BigRedS doesn't install the gimp
<oimon> BigRedS: there's always one isn't there :P
<BigRedS> haha
<shauno> oimon: two!
 * MooDoo installs photoshop :p
<BigRedS> I do always forget that I need to install vim, too. Why isn't that shipped by default?
<oimon> vim-tiny sucks
<shauno> because $mymom doesn't use vim   *ducks*
<oimon> so does that nano program
<BigRedS> Hah. Every time I use nano I get warnings about unexpected ':w's
<oimon> shauno: if a son is performing remote support for mumbuntu he might want it tho
<shauno> actually, I dread to think what my mom uses.  last time I saw her, she was still on mandake  (and it was still called mandrake)
<BigRedS> shauno: your mum's an emacs user? *shudders*
<oimon> just got rid of the last few madrake machines here too
<oimon> security updates stopped a long time ago
<directhex> the gimp is overkill for most of what i do
<directhex> i should get into the habit of using pinta
<shauno> I don't do mom support :/
<shauno> I'll support her PC when she stops marrying windows admins.
<MooDoo> shauno: lol
<oimon> directhex: but necessary for blurring out bits and cropping/cloning tho?
<shauno> they're freaking impossible to clean up after
<directhex> oimon, no, that's the point, gimp is overkill for those things
<gord> sigh, my landlord thinks instant messengers are email - doesn't understand the difference - just thinks i'm emailing back really quickly
<oimon> directhex: i didn't think there was an inbetween paintshoppro in the repo's though?
<popey> 12:42:34 < oimon> shauno: if a son is performing remote support for mumbuntu he might want it tho
<popey> nope
<popey> :)
<directhex> oimon, pinta is partly based on paint.net, which is well regarded in that area
<oimon> directhex: in the repos?
<shauno> Dear gord.  I found your last letter quite amusing.  I hope that works out for you without too much insanity.  regards, shauno
<gord> shauno, yeah pretty much spot on
<MooDoo> paint.net isn't in the repos i don't think, i think it works via wine though
<directhex> oimon, yeah
<oimon> directhex: i'm on lucid..must be a new appearance
<shauno> paint.net isn't .. .net?
<directhex>      pinta | 0.4+dfsg-2 | maverick/universe | source, all
<directhex>      pinta |      0.6-1 | natty/universe | source, all
<oimon> !info pinta lucid
<lubotu3> Package pinta does not exist in lucid
<oimon> !info pinta
<lubotu3> pinta (source: pinta): a simple Gtk+ drawing/painting program. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4+dfsg-2 (maverick), package size 457 kB, installed size 1540 kB
<gord> hrm this reminds me, i should find some time to get shotwell doing some basic image editing, cropping, - already does colour adjusting but eh not enough
<MooDoo> shauno: http://www.getpaint.net/
<directhex> paint.net doesn't run in wine.
<oimon> gord: would love for shotwell to gain feature parity with picasa
<AlanBell> MooDoo: I have placed the order, it is a standard pack 250 Ubuntu, 50 Kubuntu, 50 Server
<MooDoo> oimon: /me would like a ppa setup for fedora that ubuntu has :)
<oimon> anyone used krita?
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like a KDE app
<davmor2> oimon: what are you after?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: awesome, and you distribute to people who want some or are having a meetup/event?
<MooDoo> davmor2: we prodded czajkowski lately?
<AlanBell> MooDoo: basically
<oimon> davmor2: i proposed a motion that most users have gimp installed. shauno and others countered that motion, and directhex told me that pinta is in repos nowadays...then we were just chatting
<davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski no fun at the moment dosed up on pain killers so doesn't notice
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah ok, i'll leave czajkowski alone then [for the moment]
<shauno> oimon: I'm not most users.  I don't have an ubuntu machine with Xorg on it :p
<shauno> (which I consider a valid use-case, but not a good model for the default install)
<oimon> who are most users nowadays though anyway?
<oimon> probably too varied to guess
<shauno> I think, in a nutshell, I'd categorize them as 'facebook users'.
<oimon> facebook is the internet
<shauno> and before you yell at me for it, remember irc users aren't $mostusers :p
<oimon> for a lot of schoolkids on my train
<dogmatic69> oimon: you trying to imply there is more to the internet than fb?
<shauno> I think my model of what an average user is now, is based purely around how I see my wife using the computer.
<oimon> zawinksi's law- Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.
<shauno> gmail's for talking to old people, safari's for buying things, and "for everything else, there's facebook"
<oimon> friends reunited really missed the boat on that one didn' tthey?
<shauno> I still can't convince her to install updates, because they get in the way :/
<davmor2> oimon: Again depends what you want to use it for.  For Photo enhancement shotwell, f-spot, digikam are all up to the general tasks that a user would need for more advanced stuff there is the gimp, inkscape, krita and the like
<oimon> davmor2: my wife and I find picasa the sweet spot for average photo touching up. shotwell rather lacking
<MooDoo> oimon: i just use pcassa for backin up to google
<davmor2> oimon: shotwell is early in it development to be fair but I find it covers most of my needs quite happily
<shauno> HazRPG1: fail
<Hazmaster> shauno: that was my pc booking back in again
<Hazmaster> don't know why but while trying to sort all this out, my ipv6 at home failed
<shauno> where I come from, we call that sods' law :)
<Hazmaster> indeed
<Hazmaster> sod has a lot to answer for in my life
<dogmatic69> running ff4, every time i close it and open it all plugins are gone and i have to reinstall them
<dogmatic69> anyone see that happen before?
<shauno> food times
<shauno> popey: I tried to DoS my phone with screenshots.  turns out they're rate limited, and I got bored/frustrated quickly.
<popey> heh
<shauno> not saying it can't be done, just that I have no stamina :)
<popey> and at 600K/shot it takes a long while to fill a 32GB phone
<shauno> maybe try again tonight when I can pre-stuff it with songs first
<shauno> curious to see what effect it'll have, because I know the OS is on a different partition to appdata.  so it should be awkward but not breaking.  I hope.
<gord> you can prolly send things to your phone faster than it can write to the storage, thats why its limiting
<shauno> I can't tell if it's intentional or not.  it just got irritating enough that I decided it was the wrong way to spend my lunch break
<HazRPG> argh silly thing
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: having fun with the internet?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: having fun with ipv6!
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> i tried ping ::1 the other day
<dogmatic69> did not like it
<HazRPG> :P
<shauno> surfing has always had this problem.  that bit where you try to hop up and land both feet at once, is really bad for your modem :/
<HazRPG> probably because your meant to type ping6 ::1
<dogmatic69> ah
<HazRPG> likewise you have traceroute6 etc
<HazRPG> just add 6 at the end of usual stuff
<dogmatic69> i see
<shauno> I can't wait for that to go away :/
<shauno> traceroute6 but mtr -6.  ugh.
<dogmatic69> is it just me or is ::1 faster than 127.0.0.1
<shauno> they're so so here
<BigRedS> How frequently do you traceroute to localhost?
<shauno> v4; rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.059/0.061/0.065/0.006 ms
<shauno> v6; rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.049/0.059/0.066/0.009 ms
<dogmatic69> 0.03 vs 0.05
<shauno> I think traceroute on a tunnel is a bit sketchy, because despite what it returns, you to your tunnel broker isn't 1 hop
<HazRPG> man you've gotta be kidding, did I seriously just get knocked off again >_<
<gord> i have the penny crayon theme music in my head and i can *not* get rid of it
<shauno> you could alway fight fire with fire.  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Hot_Butter_-_Popcorn.ogg  :D
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: are u alsp neuro? if not talk to him, he seems to have it :D
<Seeker`> MattJ: i am realistic about my programming abulity :P
<shauno> that's not a bad observation.  hrmmm!
<HazRPG> gord: heh what a random song to get in your head! ... also, dag-nabit! You've got me singing it now >_<
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: neuro? No I'm not him... he seems to have what?
<dogmatic69> shauno: flash back to dos4.something and digdug \o/
<dogmatic69> HazRPG:  neuro (~neuro@2001:470:1f09:4b7:20c:29ff:fec2:f24f) has joined #ubuntu-uk
<shauno> HazRPG: his host is also 2001:470: and he can't sit still either
<HazRPG> oh right, so it could be the tunnel's fault not ours?
<shauno> I closed my laptop before I came to work, so I can't poke my end :(
<HazRPG> shauno: is yours not a 2001:470?
<HazRPG> ah
<Myrtti> voted \o/
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: relevant? http://mailman.isi.edu/pipermail/6bone/2002-August/006010.html
<gord> what was that one about the loch ness monsters...
<gord> ah family ness
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg519tvZcv4
<shauno> I'd assume he.net had fixed their path since 2002
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: it might be, but that's way too much techno-bable for me to digest at the moment lol
<HazRPG> also yeah what shauno said ^^
<ivanka> AlanBell: do you have a bug report for that keyboard
<AlanBell> bug 751891
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 751891 in onboard (Ubuntu) "onboard does not follow Ubuntu branding and looks dated" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751891
<oimon> student shop is closed until may - am missing my cornetto supply in this weather :(
<shauno> one of these days, when I really feel like hurting myself, I'm curious to see how I'd get ptppd handing out v6 addresses to vpn clients
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<AlanBell> ivanka: bug 751891
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 751891 in onboard (Ubuntu) "onboard does not follow Ubuntu branding and looks dated" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751891
<ivanka> AlanBell: thanks
<oimon> gnome3 seems to be quite popular on planet gnome today
<gord> well of course
<oimon> somebody likes it then ;)
<DJones> oimon: Its the same in #ubuntu, I've lost count of the number of "How do I install gnome 3" questions, or whether natty will come with gnome 3
<Laney> how well does the PPA work?
<oimon> that's because the screenshots look nice and it's not obvious from them that gnome shell is , well, ...there's stuff missing :)
<Tommeh> Laney: with Natty beta, it's .. Entertaining :)
<Tommeh> But I am currently using it.
<Laney> worse than you get from upstream?
<Tommeh> However most my my 'aptitude dist-upgrade' attempts want to nuke half of my install
<Tommeh> I dunno, never tried anything other than the PPA
<DJones> Tommeh: I like the way there's a comment that unity and gnome 3 are incompatible and there's no way back after using the ppa for gnome 3
<oimon> i built from scratch a few weeks ago
<Tommeh> DJones: I must've missed that bit :)
<oimon> you had to move some stuff out of the way.. /usr/lib/ stuff  IIRC
<Tommeh> Not opposed to a re-install anyway
<Tommeh> Weee 144 upgrades
<Tommeh> At least there aren't any conflicts today :)
<Tommeh> I left last night with it trying to remove ubuntu-desktop or gnome-shell, heh
<oimon> just cranking up the liveCD of gnome3 to check it out again
<scoundrel50> hi, got a problem, was chatting on e-mail group about new laptop and partitioning to add ubuntu. Trying that now, and got to the part where it talks about Allocate Drive space, and lost. Can somebody help please? I have no idea what I need to do from here.
<scoundrel50> What do I choose for the partition?
<BigRedS> scoundrel50: What do you mean 'lost'?
<scoundrel50> well, its got the Allocate Drive Space page up, and there are options, and a drop down menu, I dont know what I need to choose to add Ubuntu to.
<BigRedS> Ah, I see
<BigRedS> What are you aiming to end up with?
<scoundrel50> want to put Ubuntu on half the partion
<scoundrel50> I have three options
<scoundrel50> there is /dev/sda1/2/3/
<scoundrel50> then there is the drop down menu
<scoundrel50> what do I choose
<BigRedS> you *probably* want the option that's words to teh effect of "resize what's there and use the new space"
<BigRedS> it wont use half a partition, it will shrink one (or two) partitions, and create a new one in the resulting empty space
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> does anyone know if webalizer can parse the %D in the apache log format (showing response time of the server in microseconds)
<scoundrel50> oh, on that page, the only options I have are 1...Erase and use entire disc and 2....Specify partitions manually
<scoundrel50> so I chose the second choice as I dont want to loose windows
<justin__> help any know about httrack i am in belize and lost
<BigRedS> scoundrel50: oh. I'm sure there used to be a nicer one. Does the 'specify partitions manually' page not offer somethign like that?
<scoundrel50> No
<scoundrel50> just took a picture to show what options i have will try to upload it now
<BigRedS> scoundrel50: Hm. It should look like this: #
<BigRedS> http://bit.ly/giCMV0
 * BigRedS curses at bit.ly
<scoundrel50> nope, dont get top option
<justin__> should i be asking somwere elese if so where?
<popey> justin__: ask your question
<popey> scoundrel50: open a terminal, type "sudo apt-get install pastebinit", then once that's installed, type "sudo fdisk -l | pastebinit"
<popey> this will give you a url you can give us
<popey> which will let us see the partitions
<popey> I suspect it's been delivered with 4 partitions all of which are primary
<justin__> i have triedd using httrack to copy chordie .com but it seems al i have is a bunch of .tmp files that wont show coerctly and the progect was .5 g
<scoundrel50> ok, just cancelled installation, and got back to Ubuntu desktop
<popey> justin__: whats the goal?
<justin__> to  search all sons while offline
<justin__> songs
<popey> ahh
<popey> wget -m http://chordie.com/
<popey> ?
<popey> its not a nice thing to do though
<popey> scoundrel50: let us know if you get a problem with those instructions
<scoundrel50> says unable to locate package pastebinit
<justin__> i am in belize an our two isp arent reliable
<scoundrel50> Running Ubuntu on live disc now
<popey> scoundrel50: odd
<popey> scoundrel50: is it online?
<scoundrel50> yes
<popey> justin__: sure, its still not nice :)
<justin__> i haven tried wget you think it down loand the web site?
<popey> scoundrel50: sudo apt-get update
<scoundrel50> give me a sec
<justin__> i know but nieter is blokin allvoip's
<directhex> popey, online = web browser = copypaste
<scoundrel50> that will add updates to the live disc?
<justin__> but thats is waht tere doing
<popey> scoundrel50: no, just in memory
<justin__> thank you for help
<popey> scoundrel50: sudo apt-get update, then sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<scoundrel50> nope, still get that message
<Azelphur> Has anyone seen the minimum hardware requirements for Windows Phone 7? it's hilarious :p
<popey> ah well
<popey> scoundrel50: in a terminal type "sudo fdisk -l"
<popey> then go to paste.ubuntu.com in a browser and paste the result of the fdisk in there
<scoundrel50> ok, doing that now
<scoundrel50> ok, that worked
<scoundrel50> http://paste.ubuntu.com/590804
<popey> how odd
<scoundrel50> that should give you results of sudo fdisk -l
<popey> ok, so you could use gparted on the live cd to reduce the size of sda3
<scoundrel50> what is odd?
<popey> never mind, I'd use gparted to resize down sda3
<directhex> that looks like a fairly sane partition table, by some standards
<popey> yup
<scoundrel50> installing gparted now
<popey> you dont need to
<popey> its on the live cd
<Hazmaster> :/
<Hazmaster> getting sick of my ipv6 pipe breaking
<oimon> lol..answer from redhat concerning a bug.."Please try valgrind."
<scoundrel50> how do I reduce size of sda3
<Hazmaster> i caught pidgin saying "Lost connection with server: Broken pipe"
<popey> scoundrel50: http://popey.blip.tv/file/2384259/
<popey> watch that video
<popey> it shows how to move a partition, but gives you an idea
<shauno> Hazmaster: connect to chat.freenode for a while then
<popey> you basically click sda3 and there's a resize option in the menu
<Hazmaster> shauno: I'm using my vps on irssi at the moment :)
<oimon> arggh what's the truth about laptop/phone batteries except for the fact that they are lame? http://uk.lifehacker.com/5789794/avoid-frequent-discharges-to-extend-your-phone-or-laptops-battery-life
<scoundrel50> do I do that before I install, I have gparted open, and sda3 has a red alarm thing next to it
<davmor2> MOO!
<popey> scoundrel50: can you take a screenshot and upload to imgur?
<Azelphur> oimon: I knew that, with smartphones it's best to charge little and often :)
<Azelphur> and most laptops too I think
<oimon> Azelphur: hmm
<scoundrel50> just took screen shot what is imgur?
<oimon> i dunno what to believe
<Azelphur> scoundrel50: http://imgur.com/
<Azelphur> oimon: that's where religion comes in
 * Azelphur runs
<oimon> Azelphur: i can see you hiding behind popey
<Azelphur> lol
<oimon> praying over my batteries might help though
<Azelphur> indeed
<scoundrel50> http://imgur.com/OoSe3
<scoundrel50> there is the screenshot
<scoundrel50> Its not allowing me to resize, at least I cant work it out. Nothing is moving.
<moreati> scoundrel50: if the NTFS partition wasn't cleanly unmounted, gparted won't touch it. Reboot into Windows, perform a scandisk and a defrag, then make sure you've performed a clean shutdown
<scoundrel50> ok, will be back in a while after the defrag
<moreati> or copy the data off to another disk, and wipe that partition
<DJones> scoundrel50: I would also suggest you backup anything that you don't want to lose before you come out of windows
<moreati> indeed, always backup before doing anything with partitions
<scoundrel50> can I just remove the disc then reboot or closwee down then remove disc?
<oimon> opening a terminal app (or other favourite app) from a clean install shouldn't take more than 2 clicks. on gnome shell it takes 3 but involves a lot of jumping through hoops!
<oimon> the good news is there is no global menu, the bad news is the title bar is MASSIVE
<DJones> Must admit that I was pleasantly surprised on my last install that Windows 7 has a way of resizing a partition built in to free up space, rather than having to use gparted to resize
<oimon> DJones: even ext3?
<DJones> scoundrel50: I'd just close down and remove the disk
<DJones> oimon: Don't think so, just its own ntfs partitions
<dogmatic69> DJones: i would not trust it though
<DJones> dogmatic69: It worked for me, I think that was the surprise
<oimon> dogmatic69: exactly, if it doesn't understand non windows stuff then you can't trust it
<oimon> due to risk of overwriting
<oimon> 7.4 earthquake off japan https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/56004704790003712#
<DJones> oimon: I'm just as worried when I use gparted to resize an ntfs partition
<scoundrel50> scan disc done, and now diskfrag started
<DJones> scoundrel50: Are you IRC'ing from the same machine you're running the scandisk & install on, or is that a seperate machine
<scoundrel50> seperate machine
<DJones> scoundrel50: Right, is the other machine connected to the internet?
<scoundrel50> this o0ne is just about working, I cant update on it, so once I get the new machine sorted, if I can, this one is being thrown out.
<scoundrel50> yes
<gpd> how are ppl finding unity in natty beta?
<BigRedS> I think they log on and it's just there
<gpd> focus follows mouse just doesn't work well.
<DJones> scoundrel50: No worries, with you not going offline when you rebooted the other machine, I just wondered whether it hadn't been connected to the internet and that was why you hadn't been able to install pastebinit earlier
<gpd> alt-tab becomes ctrl-alt-tab... lots to learn it seems
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] GNOME 3; User Help hackfest - http://philbull.livejournal.com/59641.html
<scoundrel50> On the live disc I was able to update and connect to Firefox and use ubuntu pastebin, but for some reson it couldnt find pastebinit, dont know why.
<scoundrel50> Going to take a long time for defrag, only 7% done so far
<scoundrel50> I know its low end for some people, but this has to be the best laptop I have have used, its really fast. I am still getting used to W7, only ever got to XP, so m,issed out on Vista.
<scoundrel50> It was quite cheap too.
<diplo> scoundrel50, what are you using for defrag ? Windows built in one ?
<diplo> If so google defraggler, Free and it's quicker and does a better job imo
<scoundrel50> yes
<directhex> it doesn't make much difference. NTFS is inherently screwed for fragmentation
<directhex> unless a defragger organizes by mtime, it's doomed to fail
<scoundrel50> Oh, I might look into that. I only got this pc a couple of days ago. Hate using windows, only use it for things like iPhone updates.
<diplo> Yup, just i found it was quicker and seemed to make a difference.
<Azelphur> M7.4 after shock just off the coast of Japan :(
<scoundrel50> ok, finiswhed defrag, so should I start the partition process again? Reboot with disc in?
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
 * brobostigon shouts and screams in frustration atthe top of his voice.
<oimon> brobostigon: gnome shell? :P
<oimon> sorry just trolling/joking :)
<brobostigon> oimon: several things, including real life and dpkg errors.
<brobostigon> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<bigcalm> brobostigon: listen to http://absolute80s.com/ it'll make your life so much better :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: apt-get instal -f
<oimon> got my first crash in gnome3 after 5 mins of using the livecd
<brobostigon> davmor2: done, same error.
<bigcalm> With jQuery, can you detect if an element currently has scrollbars?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i wil have a look, thanks,
<davmor2> brobostigon: what on?
<brobostigon> davmor2: apt-get install -f
<scoundrel50> Ok, got to Allocate Drive space and now have that third option, Install alongside other operating systems, click on that?
<davmor2> brobostigon: I meant natty or maverick,  is it from a dist-upgrade or a upgrade?  If it's natty then it might be between package uploads and so won't install till the missing bit is available
<brobostigon> davmor2: natty, upgrade,
<davmor2> brobostigon: might be between packages,  give it an hour and do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -f  hopefully that will fix everything
<bigcalm> Can one get less to make use of the colour scheme set in vim?
<davmor2> bigcalm: just forward into vim :D
<brobostigon> davmor2: it broke grub, an initrd is missing.
<scoundrel50> yay, got further this time, seems to be installing
<scoundrel50> at nleast its copying files, further than it got last time
<davmor2> brobostigon: yeap there was an issue with it that was cause the cds to fail to build so they got respun
<brobostigon> davmor2: i just ran update-grub again, so atleast grub will find kernels,
<scoundrel50> ok, one question, do these installs differ depending on your computer? There are things being installed that I havent seen before.
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: it does vary, yes, for example, i have gnome-shell/gnome3, and the dependencies of it changing, with updates, so that is possible.
<scoundrel50> Oh, what is the difference? Is that for touch screen or something similar?
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: it is an update to gnome2 and its apps, and WM etc.
<scoundrel50> Its now installing system, I dont know what happened the first time, but it seems we are almost finished instlling this time.
<scoundrel50> oh right.
<scoundrel50> restarting computer
<DJones> scoundrel50: gnome 3 might be included in 11.10 when it gets released in the autumn, but from what I've read, its not compatible with Unity in 11.04
<scoundrel50> Oh right, os its not ready for another two releases, rebooting, logging in.
<scoundrel50> Yay
<scoundrel50> now I have to update
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: i am running gnome-shell/gnome3 mostly successfully here in natty, with gnome3-team ppa.
<scoundrel50> What is the difference,
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: gnome3  is simplyput, updates to gnome2, in every way.
<gord> eh i wouldn't say in every way. most of the applications are basically the same
<gord> the backend code has changed a lot however
<gord> gsettings, gdbus are of note
<scoundrel50> Oh right, I am just on 10.10 at the moment, I am looking forward to Natty, to see what changes are made with that.
<brobostigon> gord: fair point, yes.
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: in natty, gnome2 is replaced with unity.
<scoundrel50> I am hoping I can get my sharing working with this install. I managed to get the windows sharing working straight away, and copied everything off this computer via sharing yesterday.
<scoundrel50> got 307 mb of updates to do
<scoundrel50> does Ubuntu need defraging? if so how?
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> its not fat
<scoundrel50> thats good to know, thanks. :)
<DJones> !defrag
<lubotu3> The default Ubuntu filesystem (ext4) is engineered to avoid fragmentation issues in most cases, see http://linkpot.net/behead/ for a simple example on how it achieves this.
<DJones> Thats a good explanation of why ext4 doesn't have the same fragmentation problems, the graphics explain it quite nicely
<scoundrel50> DJones: thank you. That is really useful to know.
<brobostigon> http://blog.geeksaresexytech.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/theinternet.jpg
<screen-x> brobostigon: I wonder if that pic has anything to do with reality
<scoundrel50> That has worked. Thanks everybody for your help. I really appreciate it. :) Going to check if its affected windows, and install everything I need now. So glad I got my ubuntu back.
<brobostigon> screen-x: http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2011/04/07/happy-birthday-the-internet/
<davmor2> scoundrel50: windows will almost certainly run chkdsk
<scoundrel50> yeh, it did that after the first time, as well.
<screen-x> brobostigon: yah, I meant is it anything close to the actual topoolgy of the internet
<scoundrel50> just about to load W7 now
<scoundrel50> its doing it now
<ali1234> the comments on that article about fragmentation are really funny
<brobostigon> screen-x: not a clue, i just thought the picture looked nice.
<ali1234> funny and sad
<scoundrel50> keeping my fingers crossed nothing is broked
<ali1234> guy points out that the article is BS, and everyone says "u dumb, MS lover" etc
<ali1234> then they accuse *him* of calling names
<ali1234> then he posts the evidence that *proves* the article is BS
<ali1234> and then they say "well why do you care it's just some article"
<scoundrel50> W& started
<scoundrel50> Thank you so much. :)
<ali1234> also the follow up article is even more BS
<ali1234> it's basically making the argument that a fragmented filesystem can be faster because you might possible want to read the fragments in the specific order they are on disc
<shauno> online defrag is in the feature list for ext4.  so apparently the people writing the filesystems don't believe the myths.
<ali1234> the real reason linux is less affected by fragmentation is because it generally uses lots of small files instead of one huge file
 * screen-x stabs cpan
<shauno> once online defrag is mainstream, we'll just conveniently forget that you previously had to convert ext3 to ext2 & use e2defrag offline  (and just hope that any extended attributes survived thru sheer luck)  :o)
<shauno> the OS doesn't use a lot of huge files.  users do tho
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> but the problem for windows is basically because of the registry, a huge constantly growing (sometimes shrinking) file that all programs use all the time whenever you do anything
 * davmor2 hands screen-x his big breaking hammer try that much more satisfaction that a quick stab
<screen-x> davmor2: thanks :)
<ali1234> putting the registry on it's own partition might actually be an interesting way to optimize windows... you might get more than 3 months without needing a reinstall if you do that
<screen-x> davmor2: have you got any lecky-tape suitable for patching up perl modules?
<davmor2> screen-x: try acme glue :D
<brobostigon> http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/stippi/2011-04-07_deskbar_rewrite interesting read.
<scoundrel50> something is missing, the network connections icon is missing from the top panel, how do I get it back?
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: hit alt+f2 and nm-applet
<scoundrel50> brobostigon: ok, that is wierd, there is a space where it is supposed to be, but no icon, but if you click on the space, the drop down menu appears.
<scoundrel50> I tried what you said, but it didnt show the icon
<exobuzz> i just went back to ubuntu (natty) after some time with linuxmint. not sure about some of the new features. top menu is a vertical space saver, but annoying for apps like "pidgin" which i like at the bottom right (long way to move the mouse)
<exobuzz> im not getting a long that well with unity either (currently back on classic ubuntu)
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: sorry then, they must have changed the way it runs with unity, try nm-applet from a terminal?
<exobuzz> still prefer the linux mint menu etc (when it doesnt freeze/crash), but wanted to go back to a distribution with a shorter "upstream route".
<exobuzz> anyone else got opinions on natty/unity and the other new stuff ?
 * brobostigon prefers gnome-shell,
<exobuzz> i watched a video of gnome-shell on youtube and although i wasnt trying it, it didn't feel like something i would like
<exobuzz> i guess i should test it before making judgement though
<scoundrel50> brobostigon: that is even wierder, get a warning saying .......nm-applet warning constructor(): couldnt initialise D-Bus manager.......An instance of nm-applet already running.
<brobostigon> simply preference, better workspace management, better handling of IM via empathy. etc.
<scoundrel50> ok, rebooted, and its now showing
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: weird, i would track down nm-applet instances with ps, and kill them and try again, but that is quite extreme,
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: dbus musthave been it, then.
<exobuzz> i still find ubuntu default apps an odd choice, although pleased that f-spot is gone. not that it matterrs since you can of course install your own, but am i missing something - why empathy over pidgin for example ?
<Myrtti> integration
<brobostigon> thank Myrtti :)
<exobuzz> care to elaborate ?
<directhex> exobuzz, because libpurple is a dead end
<exobuzz> because? :)
<brobostigon> exobuzz: like, i can get and reply to empathy messages, without even going empathy in gnome-shell, straight from the notifications. very convieniant.
<brobostigon> even going to*
<directhex> exobuzz, essentially, empathy is a thin wrapper over telepathy, which is a generalized IM framework. you can have lots of apps which speak to telepathy, giving what brobostigon describes. the same is not true of pidgin. pidgin is just an app
<brobostigon> directhex: yes, said notifications dont work with pidgin, i have tried.
<directhex> and telepathy is pluggable, whereas pidgin isn't. all pidgin's power comes from the main pidgin lib, purple. any new telepathy service can appear, and it'' just work in consumer apps
<directhex> e.g. SIP
<exobuzz> ill give it a go, but when ubuntu first switched i tried it. it was buggy, and seemed to have half of the features of pidgin. perhaps they switched too early for me to appreciate it and it put me off
<Myrtti> I'm sure there's a longer explanation in blogosphere, but it integrates well into the system. I use pidgin but I use xubuntu
<directhex> exobuzz, switching early is important for bug fixing. remember, non-lts releases "don't matter" in this respect
<Myrtti> well, I use both really
<exobuzz> directhex, in my case though, that didnt work. i just uninstalled it ;-)
<Myrtti> pidgin for work and empathy for leisure
<exobuzz> im sure i am not alone
<directhex> i use empathy, except on windows
<exobuzz> also im still waiting for the right hand side of windows to be used for something. was one of mark's big arguments for moving the window gadgets.. or was it a fib to justify the decision.
<brobostigon> empathy v.3 is miles better, most stability issues i had hae been worked out, and certain things like, blocked contacts, has a muchbetter gui.
<scoundrel50> Can you get empathy to work with camera, stay when you want to talk to somebody on MSN, I have never been able to get the camera working on Empathy.
<brobostigon> directhex: given you do work for the firm that partly designs empathy/telepathy, :)
<directhex> brobostigon, yes, this is true
<brobostigon> scoundrel50: sound and video work over xmpp in telepathy/empathy, ot tried msn yet. best ask directhex, :)
<brobostigon> directhex: :)
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<exobuzz> to be honest, id take raw functionality over some "correct framework" that isnt ready/complete
<directhex> i like telepathy functionality. desktop sharing is neato
<directhex> so is sharing music in banshee
<brobostigon> exobuzz: for the things i use it for, it is ready/complete as you put it.
<exobuzz> ive yet to make a judgement on banshee. i tried it before and preferred exaile
<exobuzz> brobostigon, i will certainly give it another run, as it has been a while
<scoundrel50> no wonder I couldnt get it to work then, I dont know anything about xmpp
<brobostigon> exobuzz: i would suggest you try the gnome3 version it is much better than the gnome 2 version.
<scoundrel50> One problem I have with this new install, sharing doesnt work. :(
<exobuzz> does empathy have gadu gadu support? :)
<scoundrel50> I'm too tired now, been doing this for hours, will try deal with that later. :(
<brobostigon> exobuzz: i believe so, yes.
<exobuzz> i just ran it and it didnt mention it on the import account screen
<directhex> yes.
<exobuzz> but it cant import my account then ?
<directhex> but empathy doesn't need it, telepathy does
<exobuzz> ok. you know what i mean :)
<directhex> is telepathy-sunshine installed? that's the CM for gadugadu
<exobuzz> i dont know. if i have to go out and search to get it to work, then its just lost a point against pidgin
<brobostigon> http://www.google.com/events/io/2011/io2011.html interesting, they are going to stream googleIO live,
<directhex> wait, i don't have sunshine either
<willy1977> evening
<directhex> i must be using haze
<exobuzz> anyway, good to have the choice of course
<directhex> telepathy-core pulls in telepathy-haze. so you definitely have gadugadu support.
<directhex> haze is a wrapper around pidgin's libpurple, so anything pidgin supports, haze supports
<exobuzz> ok. it didnt offer to import the gadugadu account from pidgin, so i thought to mention it
<exobuzz> I never found a twin pane file manager I liked really. krusader being the closest
<exobuzz> sorry just a thought dump
<directhex> midnight commander!
<exobuzz> ugh. no please. horrible :)
<exobuzz> oh wait. sorry. brain glitch. mc is ok. but im talking gui one
<MattJ> Nautilus + a tiling wm
<exobuzz> maybe im fussy, but that won't do me also heh
<MattJ> Though I should try Thunar again, I used to like it
 * brobostigon doesnt mention file managers in other OS's better,as he was ignored last night.
<exobuzz> i preferred the simplicity of thunar of nautilus as a simple file manager, but
<dutchie> MattJ: nautilus can tile anyway
<dutchie> try pressing F3
<MattJ> What the...
<exobuzz> the global top menu on natty is going to give me rsi.
<MattJ> dutchie: Thank you :)
<dutchie> MattJ: np :)
<gordonjcp> I don't like that top menu thing
<gordonjcp> and the alt-f2 run dialogue is totally broken
<exobuzz> the thing with nautilus with an extra pane, is most of the time i would use it with a single pane, with icons, and so to switch back and forth etc, is not ideal. i guess its possible to have multiple profiles perhaps? but still. its not like dopus on the amiga ;-)
<exobuzz> or filemaster which was nice on my a500 heh
 * exobuzz installs "worker" for an oldschool dopus look
<brobostigon> or, like opentracker on haiku.
<issyl0> Evening all.
<brobostigon> good evening issyl0
<issyl0> How are things?
<MattJ> Very good
 * issyl0 needs/wants things to do, but has too much to do in real life that she can't do because she doesn't have the stuff to do it yet.  :-/
<brobostigon> issyl0: i am not allowed to use the lagnuage to describe it here, i am sure you can imagine, and you?
<brobostigon> language*
<issyl0> brobostigon: Ah, right.  Yeah, I'm not bad thanks.
<brobostigon> issyl0: :)
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, whats broken with alt+f2 ?
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: it just doesn't work
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: press alt-f2, type the name of a command, hit return, doesn't launch the app
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, i managed to launch gnome-terminal via it just now? maybe it's fixed or some path issue ?
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: if you wait something like five seconds while all the totally pointless search crap catches up, it *might* launch
<gordonjcp> if you can type at faster than one character per two seconds, it won't work
<brobostigon> opentracker happens to be my favorite file manager.
<exobuzz> if it does some autosearch perhaps that's not enabled here, as it didnt try and help me
<gordonjcp> maybe there's a way to disable it
<brobostigon> it isnt exclusivly a filemanager though.
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, aah wait. is alt+f2 different on unity from classic ?
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: I don't know, I'm using Unity
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, i switched to classic mode, the search stuff was way slow on unity
<exobuzz> i couldnt handle it
<gordonjcp> yeahy
<exobuzz> and im on a 1080p 24" monitor. i dont need massive icons that would suit a touchscreen/netbook
<directhex> i've been considering reverting wifey's netbook to lucid
<exobuzz> who thought it was a good idea for the same gui on both types of device? :)
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: I don't want any icons at all
<directhex> or maybe older. every upgrade makes her netbook worse
<gordonjcp> they're just meaningless squares to me
<gordonjcp> directhex: Windows XP
<brobostigon> directhex: which model, may i ask.
<directhex> gordonjcp, is a TERRIBLE os for a netbook
<exobuzz> gordonjcp, id go back to classic mode then. having said that they plan to remove that in the next release right? so no more choice.
<directhex> brobostigon, an acer aspire one
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: well, I don't normally use Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: but I need to package some stuff and test it for Ubuntu
<exobuzz> i see. what do you normally run ?
<brobostigon> directhex: i tried haiku on one of those the other day, and it worked heavenly, however, that isnt a viable possibility.
<gordonjcp> so I may as well use an up-to-date version
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: Haiku and Arch
<exobuzz> im seriously considering going back to kde in recent weeks..
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: :)
 * gordonjcp never liked KDE
 * brobostigon agreed with gordonjcp 
<exobuzz> i miss windowmaker, sniff ;-)
<gordonjcp> etoile looked promising but the project seems to be dead
<brobostigon> agrees*
<exobuzz> i liked it at kde3, but kde4 put me off,. i liked the kate editor too, although i found geany to be quite ok
<brobostigon> exobuzz: i agree with you on geany, :)
<exobuzz> togeany has more features and loads quicker than gedit
<exobuzz> perhaps it should replace it
<brobostigon> exobuzz: i dont think it could replace it, as simple  basic text editor, which is why gedit is there.
<exobuzz> i normally remove gedit, and just use geany
<exobuzz> there is a lot of overlap though. and of course geany can be used as a simple editor too
<exobuzz> anyway, as usual, there are a bunch of decent editors to choose from.
<gordonjcp> gedit
<exobuzz> mac users all rave on about textmate. never tried it though
<exobuzz> brobostigon, do you use geany and also a larger ide? more things ive not tried recently is for example eclipse and kdevelop
<brobostigon> exobuzz: geany, nano, and the arduino IDE.
<gordonjcp> ick
<gordonjcp> don't use the arduino IDE, it sucks
<exobuzz> never heard of that
<gordonjcp> use a real editor, and arsocns
<gordonjcp> *arscons
<exobuzz> hardware geekery orientated ?
<gordonjcp> exobuzz: yeah
<brobostigon> brb, foodings.
<MattJ> nano is my editor, and the command-line is my IDE
<Azelphur> yay, I'm starting to make progress in the world of android development :D
<Azelphur> I've more or less got a working "connect on startup" patch for yaaic :)
<Azelphur> ^ from hello world to this in one day, and the only documentation I read was the eclipse setup/hello world tutorial xD
<brobostigon> Azelphur: congratsm :)
<Azelphur> ty :p
<willy1977> Azelphur: not bad mate... if you are after a paid for book :o I can recommende wrox Professional Android 2 Application Development :)
<willy1977> *recommend
<Azelphur> haha, me and books never get on, I generally just mess with other peoples code till it makes sense and slowly gain an idea of how the language works
<Azelphur> that's how I learned python xD
<willy1977> often-times that's for the best if you know the examples you're following are sound ;)
<brobostigon> Azelphur: that is how i learnt c and c++-
<Azelphur> fun :)
<Azelphur> willy1977: should be good, yaaic is a nice IRC client based on pircbot :)
<willy1977> well not to everyone but yeah, I find that stuff fun too :)
<willy1977> ahh cool
<brobostigon> Azelphur: one complaint, it doesnt seem to have nick completion or assitance of any kind.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: should do, I believe the tab complete button is search
<Azelphur> nope, I guess not o.O
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i didnt find a way, hmm, i will have to try that.
<brobostigon> oh, ok.
<Azelphur> that can be on my todo list :)
<brobostigon> Azelphur: it quite assential really, :)
<Azelphur> indeed
<willy1977> I'm thinking I may try and write a phpbb reader for android... I know a few that would want it but past my tri club not sure if there'd be much call for it :/
<brobostigon> Azelphur: so i am on andchat, but have yaaic installed aswell.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: yea, dev says it is supposed to be the search button, I guess it got broken :P
<Azelphur> doesn't work for me in latest release or git
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i didnt find it either, ok.
<Azelphur> so it is there, it's just broken I guess :D
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<willy1977> guess it means it'll be fixed at some point though ;)
<brobostigon> yes, fingers crossed.
<Azelphur> it will be, if he doesn't fix it I probably will xD
<willy1977> so is it all in java or pythong or sommat else?
<willy1977> *python
<Azelphur> java
<willy1977> I'm having a stab at picking that up just now too...
<Azelphur> :)
<willy1977> meaning as well as linux...
<brobostigon> i have been playing with google app inventor, as idont seem to be able to understand java,
<willy1977> I guess I'm lucky in that regard as far as I can tell it's principles are similar to c# but with a different set of namespaces etc. doesn't make it any easier I guess :D
<brobostigon> i would be a happier if they had used c or c++.
<willy1977> yeah I know what you mean - I reckon there's always one language set that a dev is more at home with...
<brobostigon> yes, i would  agree,
<brobostigon> i am no dev though, really.
<willy1977> what makes you say that? is it because you don't have a star wars/star trek t-shirt that is faded?
<willy1977> ;)
<brobostigon> willy1977: because i mostly only play, i dont do anything really serious.
<willy1977> brobostigon: I get you - it's cool when it's play it can get a grind when it's day to day ;)
<willy1977> pretty much why I've started hanging around here is to remind myself why I first went in to IT and dev work.
<brobostigon> willy1977: most i do, is some work for the controllers on my dads car project, and that is it.
<willy1977> sorry had to sort some family stuff out - sounds interesting though.
<shauno> heh, I haven't used fetchmail for eons.  it still works :D
<shauno> kinda.  I'm not quite sure where it put the first attempt.
<willy1977> shauno: not bad then... one learning attempt and success :p
<willy1977> doh... not sure what happened then :)
<gord> it seems insane that we live in a world where i can visit some webpage, the website then insist that i must be logged in and take me to a form where firefox has already filled out the information and ticked the "remember me" checkbox. i don't care if its firefox's fault or the websites fault, it sucks :(
<shauno> so all the page needs is a relatively simple bit of javascript to see if the client is one that's expected to do that, enough fields aren't empty that it's happy, and it can submit the form for you.
<shauno> score!  .. for the site
<Azelphur> gah, so close to having my connect on start working xD
<Azelphur> I can connect servers on startup, I've created the option for it, just can't get it to save/load the setting...grr :p
<shauno> does firefox highlight fields it's filled for you in any way?
<willy1977> Azelphur: what's up with the settings save then?
<Azelphur> dunno XD
<Azelphur> think I found it.
<shauno> infact, it wouldn't have to.  the script could just check fields are filled within a time limit, assume that fast enough wasn't human interaction, and go ahead with the submit
<gordonjcp> is there a way to get rid of the outsize speech bubbles in empathy chat windows?
<Azelphur> aha, now I've got it :p
<ali1234> gordonjcp: change the theme, there's one that doesn't use bubbles
<gordonjcp> ali1234: aha
<gordonjcp> thanks, that's much better
<ali1234> it's kind of ugly though, i find it runs everything together
<Azelphur> success, one fully functional feature \o/
<ali1234> gord: sourceforge?
<matti> ;]
<gordonjcp> ali1234: yeah, but my monitor is quite old and really the resolution's not high enough for Unity
 * gordonjcp remembers when 1680x1050 was actually quite big
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: it still is, :)
<ali1234> i thought the whole point of unity was to improve the way screen space is used?
<ali1234> anyway i recommend using classic
<ali1234> and pidgin instead of empathy
 * brobostigon uses gnome3 and empathy,
<mgdm> evenin' aquarius
<amber481> Hi All,My company has just recently migrated from a Windows to a Linux farm.  At the moment we donât have document storage system so we are using Google docs at the present time. We donât see this as the safest method of document storage so I have been assigned the task of finding a better solution.I have been advised to set an FTP server but this method seems dated and the search functionality isnât very good and Iâve also 
<gordonjcp> amber481: what were you using on Windows?
<moreati> probably g:\ :)
<gordonjcp> hm ;-)
<willy1977> was it sharepoint?
<amber481> yes
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell or TheOpenSourcerer might know
<gordonjcp> I've never used sharepoint so I don't know what it's like
<amber481> anything similar to GIT?
<willy1977> gordonjcp: web frontend
<amber481> which could handle PDF's?
<gordonjcp> willy1977: web frontend to what?
<gordonjcp> amber481: well, git would handle PDFs, just maybe not very well
<amber481> ive tried and it doesnt
<willy1977> sharepoint - it backs on to a set of iis/reporting services
<willy1977> *iis sites
<AlanBell> if documents are the question then Alfresco is the answer
<AlanBell> </sales pitch>
<moreati> amber481: What you mean by GIT, maybe what most of us mean. To us git is a source code system used by the Linux kernel developers
<gordonjcp> I just spotted Alfresco on Google
<amber481> can Alfresco handle PDF's?
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> it can generate PDFs on the fly from stuff too
<AlanBell> so you can have version tracked documents in ods format and published PDFs on the web somewhere
<amber481> sounds good
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: your project?
<amber481> do you have any links?
<amber481> thank god for the UK
<amber481> :)
<AlanBell> nope, not my project, but we work with it for our customers
<willy1977> http://www.alfresco.com/
<popey> Thank the queen!
 * AlanBell stands to attention
<amber481> americans are assholes
<amber481> really
 * popey stands up
 * popey averts his gaze
<amber481> thanks guys
 * willy1977 starts the tape on track 3... pomp n circumstance...
 * gordonjcp points out that he has no queen
<amber481> lol
<amber481> bye
<gordonjcp> bloody germans coming over here and taking our jobs
<willy1977> i hate the germans... bombed our chippy (circa 1980's liverpudlian accent required)
<moreati> gordonjcp: did you here when apple we're recruiting exchange students in London. "Bloody Jobs, coming over here, stealing our foreigners"
<gordonjcp> moreati: :-)
<gordonjcp> moreati: I hear he may be going in for a heart transplant
<gordonjcp> moreati: so if they leave the old one in does that mean that the new Steve Jobs is dual-coeur?
<amber481> http://www.alfresco.com/  is no good
<moreati> amber481: works here
<amber481> i need an opensource app
<gordonjcp> amber481: why not?
<willy1977> I think it looks quite good to be honest... :/ why not?
<gordonjcp> http://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Alfresco_SVN_Development_Environmen
<gordonjcp> http://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Alfresco_SVN_Development_Environment
<moreati> amber481: IIRC Alfresco comes in open source and paid flavours
<willy1977> it is open source as far as... oh yeah what they said :)
<amber481> :)
<oo> hey
<gordonjcp> although the idea of running java on a server scares me a bit
<amber481> great... changed my mind
<willy1977> http://www.alfresco.com/products/platform/
<amber481> why?
<moreati> amber481: http://www.alfresco.com/try/ Look for Alfresco Community
<amber481> whats wrong with java on a server?
 * popey works for a company that runs most of its business on very large java based apps
<popey> very large
<moreati> popey: is it wise to mention SAP, when you're trying to defend Java on servers ;)
<popey> I'm not defending anything
<AlanBell> amber481: it *is* free software
<popey> just mentioning in passing
<amber481> we are non profit
<AlanBell> the community edition is a bit more bleeding edge than the commercially supported enterprise version
<amber481> so i need somethinf thats opensource
<AlanBell> but it is the same code
<AlanBell> it is LGPL 3 I think
 * AlanBell checks
<moreati> GPL 2 with linking exceptions according to Wikipedia
<AlanBell> moreati: wikipedia would appear to be wrong then
<AlanBell> http://newton.typepad.com/content/2010/01/a-shift-in-alfresco-community-license-to-lgpl.html
<amber481> thanks again
<AlanBell> there is probably a bit more complexity in it than that as it is quite a lot of bits of stuff flying together in close formation
<AlanBell> I think the business process modeling bit JBPM stuff is a bit less liberally licensed but they were swapping that out for something else
<AlanBell> and in the all-in-one installer they include a tomcat and mysql and openoffice.org
<AlanBell> which I think is a bad idea, but don't blame me
<AlanBell> java does run masses of stuff on masses of servers, it has a strong reputation for scalability (a better reputation than it deserves IMHO)
<directhex> i lie about respecting java as a choice
<moreati> AlanBell: fixed
<AlanBell> moreati: not quite :)
<AlanBell> linking exception applies to GPL only
<AlanBell> and I am fairly sure it is LGPL3 and not 2
<moreati> AlanBell: oh pooh, couldn't find an actual LICENSE file in the repo
<AlanBell> GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 3, 29 June 2007
<directhex> i'm tired of lying about saying there's an appropriate time to use java. i don't think that. i'm disingenuous when i say i do.
 * AlanBell finds one in /opt/alfresco-3.4.c/licenses/license.txt
<willy1977> directhex: so there's no appropriate time to use java?
<amber481> so are you guys excited about the royal wedding? im from NY and for some reason its all over our news stations
<willy1977> our bills wedding? oh aye... extra day off innit... ;)
<directhex> willy1977, IMHO? it's a dead language, and should be used whenever you consider dead languages
<amber481> lol
<directhex> amber481, nobody in my circle of friends could give a flying freak about it.
<moreati> directhex: ditto
<AlanBell> directhex: I fully agree with you
<amber481> lol
<amber481> you guy make me laugh
<amber481> guys*
<amber481> why not?
<amber481> he's your future king
<AlanBell> meh
<willy1977> joe king...?
<popey> amber481: there's probably more interest in our royal family outside the UK than in it
<AlanBell> amber481: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-March/029306.html
<moreati> amber481: that matters about as much as who sings the national anthem in the superbowl
<directhex> amber481, there are three types of people who care about the royal wedding
<AlanBell> just some kids who are getting married on the natty bank holiday
<dutchie> directhex: 1) people in the royal family? :)
<directhex> amber481, 1) people in the tourist trade, who hope to make moar cash from foreigners come to gawk at our silly customs
<amber481> theres  a movie coming out about the royal wedding... will you go and see it  <directhex>
<directhex> amber481, 2) people who don't care about the occasion, but are happy about the extra national holiday day
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Would be nice if it were every year
<popey> :( another day I dont get paid
<amber481> Windsor castle is nice... ive been there!
<willy1977> oh aye \o/ - 11 days off for the price of 3... thank you jesus and bill!
<directhex> amber481, 3) weird people who still think an imported german set of aristocrats are somehow superior specimens of the species, and genuinely like the idea of hereditary leadership
<bigcalm> popey: but you get so spend extra time with your wonderful family :)
<popey> hrm
<amber481> you are lucky! i only get 7 paid holidays a year
<amber481> you guys get something silly
<amber481> 2 weeks
<directhex> amber481, well, that's the US. even at mcdonalds you'd get more than twice that in europe
<amber481> right?
<amber481> lol
<bigcalm> 20 days off plus bank holidays is the minimum
<amber481> wow
<directhex> amber481, i get 20 days plus bank holidays, which is significantly less than my last job
<bigcalm> Same here
<amber481> and the french?
<directhex> amber481, more than that.
<bigcalm> Are just basicly ;)
<amber481> they get more right?
<dutchie> only because they are striking all the time :)
<bigcalm> (in-joke lost on most)
<popey> I got it
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country
<amber481> lol
<safiyyah> hi guys
<bigcalm> popey: that's beacuase you're tops!
<safiyyah> i need help with something real quick
<directhex> amber481, they get more in vietnam! 10 days!
<bigcalm> safiyyah: fire away
<amber481> lol
<amber481> ture
<amber481> true*
<amber481> by the way 7 days is including sick days
<directhex> ...
<popey> !
<directhex> was going to say you get the same as someone from hong jong
<directhex> but with that extra bit... you don't
<bigcalm> Sick days come out of your holiday entitlement?
<willy1977> including sick days?
<Pendulum> everyone gets more than the US
<popey> amber481: come and live in the UK :)
<Pendulum> bigcalm: they're not required to provide sick days in the US
 * bigcalm stays put
<popey> apparently we're socialist lefies, but hey, we get more holiday than you :D
<bigcalm> Pendulum: backwards country ;)
<Pendulum> some places offer them outside of holiday, some places don't
<Pendulum> bigcalm: you're telling me! I've been trying to get out for years!
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> awwww
<popey> silly colonies, leaving the empire
<bigcalm> Aye
<amber481> lol
<popey> also, the fork goes in your _left_ hand
<willy1977> you know someone once asked at an interview I was doing how many sick days they got... scrunched up his face when I said none...
<Pendulum> popey: that's how I eat when I'm not in the US
<amber481> :)
<Pendulum> but if you're using your fork in your left and the person next to you is using it in their right, it's messy
<popey> learn them!
<popey> learn them properly
<popey> by projecting your food on their shirt
<popey> "oh, sorry!"
<amber481> :)
<Pendulum> haha
<willy1977> in the fork stakes I'm a heathen... :( but I drink tea properly...
<bigcalm> popey: I think some 'lefties' might have something to say about that :P
<Pendulum> tea \o/
<popey> willy1977: from a bucket?
<willy1977> quite right
<bigcalm> willy1977: with your little finger sticking out?
<popey> I do so enjoy these cultural exchanges
<willy1977> from a bouqet with my little fingah sticking out ya...
<bigcalm> Pendulum: kb update - it's great :D
<Pendulum> bigcalm: good :)
 * brobostigon wonders what he has just walked into.
<Pendulum> brobostigon: why the US sucks :)
<willy1977> oh hello auld chap... how are you...
<brobostigon> Pendulum: hmmm, okies.
<safiyyah> I installed brother scanner drivers using dpkg --forceall, anyway it's the wrong driver
<safiyyah> I would like to remove just the scanner drivers NOT all brother drivers
<safiyyah> I will post the output of grep
<bigcalm> http://blog.jitbit.com/2011/04/chinese-magic-drive.html # nice bit of tech this
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/590988/
<safiyyah> I only want to remove brscan and brscankey
<directhex> safiyyah, dpkg --purge brscan-skey  ?
<safiyyah> thanx directhex
<daftykins> D:
<brobostigon> with "sudo dpkg --force-all -r " i fixed my package upgrade error, from earlier, hopefuly i havent trashed anything.
<Safiyyah> oh great the scanner is working
<Safiyyah> I am really impressed with brother
<Safiyyah> they have provided for linux users well
<daftykins> as long as you know command line? ^_^
<Safiyyah> daftykins, i hardly know command line
<Safiyyah> the instructions are good
<daftykins> ah
<Safiyyah> they have very detailed instructions on the site
<daftykins> i bought a webcam recently that should work under Linux happily
<HazRPG> dwatkins: most do, don't they?
<HazRPG> i mean i was shocked my microsoft LifeCam HD worked ootb
<directhex> Safiyyah, it would be nice if the drivers were free software
<daftykins> HazRPG: i nearly got a Microsoft one, but i went with the Logitech C910 in the end
<daftykins> 1080p on windows, (albeit at a low framerate)
<daftykins> but only does 720p UVC style
<daftykins> but i figure, that's fine :D
<Safiyyah> directhex,  they are free
<Safiyyah> i downloaded them off the site
<directhex> no source.
<Safiyyah> i think there are US laws on the fax software because of telephone companies there but aside that...
<brobostigon> Safiyyah: i suspect OSS was implied
<Safiyyah> oh....
<Safiyyah> maybe e-mailing someone at brother....
<Safiyyah> one of the big guys
<daftykins> Safiyyah: he means you can't edit the source code and make it into a device to scan yourself into the computer like real life Tron
<daftykins> but one day... one day...
<Safiyyah> OR brother wakes up to becoming free
<directhex> daftykins, or, y'know, use it on amd64 properly
<directhex> or fix the egregious packaging bugs
<daftykins> directhex: Tron first though, right?
<HazRPG> daftykins: heh, yeah my microsoft one does 720p pretty well :)
<HazRPG> and its wide-screened, which I find rather random
<daftykins> yeah this one too
<daftykins> in fect, it was 4:3 and lower res during a skype video call to a friend, then i stopped hammering my upload and it decided to go widescreen and higher-res :D
<daftykins> fact even, not fect
<AlanBell> anyone seen any benefit from the new skype beta?
<directhex> AlanBell, the new skype beta supports h264 video, that's the major feature
<directhex> the last beta couldn't do video to non-linux clients
<directhex> from, even
<AlanBell> fairly sure it did
<AlanBell> unless more of my relatives are running Linux than I previously thought
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> and thus the war was won
<Seeker`> bah, can't find ppa.launchpad.net maverick/main for some reason :/
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-08
 * MattJ wants to register lunchpad.net
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> genius
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I installed php on Live Bootable USB
<kaushal> when i rebooted and booted from USB, the php5 is not installed
<kaushal> USB is persistent right ?
<shauno> I think the default is for liveusb to act just like a livecd.   You might want to take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent to see what needs to be different for it to be persistent
<kaushal> shauno: ok
<shauno> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey shauno  !
<knightwise> morning to ya
<knightwise> damn
<knightwise> i sound like a leprechaurn
<shauno> ;)
<knightwise> that or an irish barman
<shauno> if an irish barman says "morning to ya", you're drinking too early :)
<knightwise> also true
<knightwise> hmm , just watched the gnome 3 video
<knightwise> Gnome looks like unity to me
<shauno> haven't tried either yet, but I gather they're both aiming in the same direction
<MooDoo> morning
<kaushal> popey: hi
<kaushal> Yes. Do a standard Ubuntu install onto a USB stick rather than use persistence mode in USB startup disk creator.
<kaushal> i did not understand that
<AlanBell> the persitence mode basically drops the CD iso onto the USB, and has a read/write area next to it
<AlanBell> so you boot into a live CD session, but have some storage space
<AlanBell> however you can just install ubuntu on the USB directly as if it was a hard drive
<kaushal> ok
<Tommeh> Though, beware flash re-write limitations
<kaushal> not sure install ubuntu on the USB ?
<kaushal> how do i install ubuntu on the USB ?
<kaushal> apologies if i am asking basic question ?
<Tommeh> It appears as a disk at install time. Just select it :)
<AlanBell> stick the USB in, stick CD in, boot from CD, install to USB
<AlanBell> Tommeh: I have never actually seen a flash rewrite limitation happen in real life
<Tommeh> It's only going to happen if you use it for 6 months or something like that.
<AlanBell> I suspect you are likely to forget where you put the USB stick well before it breaks
<Tommeh> As a daily-use installation, I mean
<Tommeh> USB sticks don't have the wear levelling or sector replacement that SSDs do.
<kaushal> AlanBell: Thanks
<kaushal> Tommeh: Thanks
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Kwabena Aning] Using images in LaTeX - http://blog.kaning.co.uk/archives/261
<MartijnVdS> popey++ ("Unity" mailing list link @ twitter)
<ali1234> i like the reply where ubuntu's choice to not support a feature is described as "functionality"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: tbh, the whole "let's dump it in the systray" mentality of many programs needs to disappear
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but they're going about it the wrong way :)
<ali1234> if you don't like the systray turn it off
<ali1234> the indicator just moves it to a deeper menu anyway
<ali1234> except that hardly any software supports it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I mean things like the "HP tools" crapware
<ali1234> don't install it then
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I need it for my printer to work
<MartijnVdS> It's the same in Windows.. "Let's add a systray icon", so every user has 600.000.000 of them and the had to invent a new way of managing them
<ali1234> on linux?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah it does some initialization.. I could close it afterwards
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: no wait.. it's the only way to read ink levels.. that's waht it does
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> so how would oyu have it work?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Through the "Ink levels" tab in the "printer settings" window
<ali1234> killing the systray won't make that happen
<MartijnVdS> but that tells me "Retrieving ink levels isn't supported by this printer"
<MartijnVdS> except it is, because the separate tool does it..
<ali1234> this has nothing to do with systray, they would still ship a separate tool
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: No killing systray won't fix this specific problem. It'll just remove the HP branding from my desktop. And the Spotify banding. And the Skype branding.
<MartijnVdS> I haven't seen a useful use of it in a long time.
<ali1234> then just remove it
<ali1234> it's not required to have the applet on your panel
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: That fixes the problem of rogue icons for me. Not for everyone.
<ali1234> my tray only has three icons in it: network manager, bluetooth, and pidgin
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: They should have made a better api 10-12 years ago, when the whole "systray" API was invented
<MartijnVdS> N-M is an indicator now, bluetooth as well
<MartijnVdS> I use empathy, which is also an indicator
<MartijnVdS> My biggest issue with the whole "new design" crap is the global menu and "be like apple for the sake of being like apple"
<ali1234> the indictor only works with the crappy gnome-bluetooth which i don't use
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what do you use then?
<ali1234> i suppose now i will have to add indicator back to my pael to get N-M icon back, unless it can be reconfigured
<ali1234> i use blueman for bluetooth
<MartijnVdS> What are your problems with the Gnome one?
<ali1234> it doesn't support enough bluetooth functions
<MartijnVdS> It supports audio and file transfer.. what more do you need? :)
<ali1234> pan, dun, hid
<ali1234> blueman is also easier to use
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it supports hid, I had a mouse that worked fine
<MartijnVdS> And I've seen options to set up PAN and DUN
<DJones> Morning
<ali1234> obex ftp...
<ali1234> none of this stuff worked when i started using blueman
<MartijnVdS> It does now :)
<ali1234> the biggest problem with systray is it doesn't support multimonitor
<ali1234> so it's annoying that it's been replaced with something else that also doesn't support multimonitor
<Apacheuk> morning all
<popey> morning all
<Apacheuk> I'm in the middle of a *discussion* with one of our admin guys at work, we have a situation where a number of users/jobs dump xml files into a directory and another user (ifs) picks up those files and processes them, but for some reason the ifs user will only process them if they are owned by ifs, is there a way to set up a directory so that no matter who/what dumps a file in a directory that it has ownership set to
<Apacheuk> this ifs user/
<bigcalm> Good morning one and all :)
<Apacheuk> at the moment we have a job that runs via cron, but thats causing an issue where the ifs process stops working if it tries to pick up a file thats being processed via our cron job?
<shauno> that's a fun one Apacheuk. I can do it on bsd, but not linux :(
<Apacheuk> :( cheers anyway
<oimon> Apacheuk: does it also work if the ifs is not owner but is in the same group?
<Apacheuk> I've been told thats been tried and it still causes an issue
<oimon> put all common users in the same group, then do chmod g+s on the directory so that  all new files in that directory will inherit the group ownership of the aprent
<Apacheuk> I'll check that out..... cheers :)
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> jQuery: I need to run my own script after a 3rd party script has run. I know my script works on generated source, but it's not working in the real world. Anybody with any thoughts?
<kazade> Heh, Nokia Fail: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/366637/nokia-symbian-is-not-open-source
<oimon> htc overtook nokia in market value - htc in the 00's is what nokia were in the 90s
<oimon> rather 10's and 00's
<oimon> forgot which decade i was in :S
<s-fox> Hello.
<bigcalm> Morning
<shauno> hm, acl don't seem to do it either
 * dwatkins returns
<dwatkins> and good morning all
<MartijnVdS> g'morning
<bigcalm> Afternoon. Is it home time yet?
<MartijnVdS> almost
<dwatkins> Which timezone are you in, bigcalm?
<s-fox> Good evening bigcalm :)
<ali1234> wow, holding up empathy of an example of why it's a good idea to put inferior software in by default... that's just crazy
<bigcalm> I guess it'll be home time somewhere in the world
<bigcalm> dwatkins: BST :P
<dwatkins> bigcalm: ah ok, perhaps you start early as I often do.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: just bloody tired today
<dwatkins> understandable, it being Friday
<bigcalm> It's been a long and stressful week. Want it to be over already
<dwatkins> yeah, same here - I will be glad when certain things at work are resolved.
<oimon> redhat's dodgy glibc update is causing massive problems, i can't believe how slow they are in fixing it :(
<dwatkins> in what way is it dodgy, oimon?
<oimon> crashes evolution every time when clicking send, and regular gnome-panel crashes, to the annoyance of all my desktop users
<oimon> the fact there is no update yet goes to show that Redaht are not interested in the desktop
<DJones> oimon: Sounds like a good excuse to migrate them to ubuntu :)
<oimon> DJones: my users wouldn't like unity - gnome2 would have to be guaranteed for 12.04 LTS
<oimon> half of them are still on KDE
<oimon> 3
<DJones> Heh
<oimon> probably the same ones who use pine still/
<oimon> at this point, due to uncertainty over unity, i'd tend towards debian for my users.
<shauno> does pine crash when you hit send?  ;)
<oimon> man, i don't know how or why they still use pine
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> search is ugly and almost impossible
<oimon> once they locate an old mail, they forward it to themselves to get it to the top of the list again
<shauno> if evo is crashing when you hit send, and pine isn't, I'd say they're justified with sticking with what works :o)
<DJones> oimon: Could offer them 10.04, its LTS so plenty of time for them to keep using it
<HazRPG> \o
<oimon> DJones: our postgrads tend to keep the same release for the duration of their course. so a postgrad joining in sep 2012, and receiving 10.04 would be seriously out of support by the time they complete their course
<HazRPG> how's everyone doing?
<AlanBell> things don't magically stop working when they are out of support
<HazRPG> they sometimes do the minute the warranty runs out, so why wouldn't it :P?
<ali1234> they just become a liability
<DJones> oimon: Right, I can understand that for consistency, but they're students, surely they want everything to be shiny & new and cutting edge
<ali1234> they're postgrads
<oimon> DJones: nope!
<ali1234> not undergrads
<DJones> ali1234: That would make a difference, undergrads would also want cheap/free to leave money in the beer budget
<oimon> they do however like dropbox and chromium
<oimon> using an OS outside of the support cycle is a massive liability, particularly for security reasons
<oimon> lucid desktop expires 04/13
<HazRPG> DJones: stereo typing there a bit? :P I liked cheap/free when I was undergrad... but it was because I wanted my money to go into the holiday jar, I hate sitting around in one place for too long
<oimon> undergrads have the tablets and laptops. postgrads clamour for the 6yr old PC's i give away
<HazRPG> oimon: surely the penny will drop at some point when they realise that new applications are suddenly not in the repo?
<HazRPG> and when things like empathy or pidgin or w/e stop working
<oimon> HazRPG: you don't wanna know how old the RHEL5.x apps are!
<HazRPG> RHEL5.x ? I'm taking it the RH is Red Hat.. EL?
<oimon> i feel embrarrassed installing evince 0.60
<popey> Enterprise Linux
<oimon> HazRPG: centos
<oimon> :P
<popey> we use RHEL at work on hundreds of boxes
<gord> is rhel gonna go with gnome-shell?
<HazRPG> hmm
<oimon> maybe in 2019
<HazRPG> gord: somehow I doubt that :p
<oimon> rhel 6 is based off fedora 13, and will last for a while
<HazRPG> I'm sure people will support gnome2 for a while yet tbh
<gord> shell just doens't seem like the kind of thing that would work well in an enterprise system
<HazRPG> I can see the grump-force (possibly me inc.) coming out and trying to keep it alive as possible
<HazRPG> as long as possible*
<oimon> people don't like it when they think it is just change for change's sake
<gord> gnome2 isn't going to die, its code, it exists now and works - it'll exist and work forever
<daubers> gord: Has the unity launcher got ldap bindings?
<gord> daubers, in what kind of a way?
<oimon> gord - however compiz may lose functionality etc, so you are left with a snapshot - gnome 2 compiz 0.8 etc - no bugs get fixed or backported
<daubers> gord: With an ldap server can I dictate what goes into the launcher?
<gord> daubers, no, why would you need to do that? what goes in to the launcher is gsettings based so you can use whatever people use to remote administer gsettings/gconf stuff
<gord> i mean, if there is a valid need let me know
<daubers> gord: Ah, ok. Thats just the kind of thing that OpenDirectory/ActiveDirectory servers do. A lot of Uni sites I go onto use that kind of feature in the directories
<ali1234> does gnome classic rely on gtk+2?
<gord> ali1234, yup
<ali1234> so it's basically going to be unsupported pretty soon?
<ali1234> what about applications eg gedit? do they have to be rewritten for gtk+3?
<gord> eh no
<gord> most applications don't need a lot of changes to do gtk3. gtk3 is really not much different from 2
<gord> just some api removed - all drawing is done with cairo now
<oimon> ali1234: my feeling is that people will produce gnome-panel etc for gtk3 so we aren't stuck with gnome shell -either that or gnome shell will get extended, since it is rather sparse right now - i know that's sort of the intention, but..
<ali1234> let me put it another way: can i have gnome-panel with gtk+3?
<ali1234> that is, without gtk+2
<gord> i'm not sure, gnome-panel is a special case. uses terribad things like bonobo. i think i heard of someone porting it to gtk3 though
<ali1234> yeah, it's terrible code, but it's the only panel system for linux that is both usable and looks good
<oimon> +1
<ali1234> seriously, if KDE ever gets their act together and works out how to render text correctly, i would switch
<ali1234> but i've been waiting nearly 10 years for that to happen
<oimon> i think these things (gnome panel ) will come with us into the future out of necessity
<oimon> and large user base
<oimon> ali1234: i didn't get to feedback about ny gvfsd experiements - are you still interested?
<ali1234> i reported the bug upstream with python testcase and valgrind log
<ali1234> but i guess the developers are kind of busy right now with the 3 release
<oimon> system monitor froze on natty , consuming 100% cpu after leaving overnight.
<ali1234> well, that's interesting
<ali1234> probably overloaded the dbus
<oimon> lucid , gvsfd grew to 800M and has stayed there since closing system monitor
<ali1234> yeah it will do that
<oimon> ali1234: however , gvfsd on natty remained quite low ~ 100mb
<ali1234> bug 751523
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 751523 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-monitor spams dbus with requests for volume information" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751523
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646867
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 646867 in daemon "Memory leak on gvfsd "listMounts" dbus call" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ali1234> try the python script on natty
<ali1234> it will eat up hundreds of mb in a few seconds
<oimon> hold on..
<ali1234> the amount of memory leaked is entirely dependent on the size of the returned data from listMounts
<ali1234> it gets filled up with a lot of stuff like every URL you click in pidgin
<ali1234> mine currently returns 200kb of data all of which never gets freed
<ali1234> and g-s-m calls it once for every filesystem displayed, so 17 times per second in my case
<oimon> ali1234: confirmed on natty
<oimon> you should take a screencast of the memory flying up :)
<oimon> popey style
<oimon> increasing at 1M per second
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<willy1977> good morning.
<brobostigon> orning willy1977
<brobostigon> morning*
<willy1977> how are we feeling today? TFIF?
<davmor2> czajkowski: hugs how's the back
<brobostigon> willy1977: not bad, tired, and you?
<willy1977> ok, stuck at work - and like you tired ;) but I'm good thanks.
<czajkowski> getting better thank you
 * brobostigon shares his pot of coffee with willy1977 
<willy1977> appreciate brobostigon love a nice cup of coffee
<willy1977> appreciated*
<brobostigon> willy1977: you're welcome, :)
<brobostigon> any ideas of something i could try and build for android with google app inventor.?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Yay! you'll soon be back to annoying and everything then yes?
<czajkowski> yes next week
<davmor2> czajkowski: Woohoo! I've missed your goading
<willy1977> brobostigon: I've not really seen the google app inventor...
<brobostigon> willy1977: it sllows for a graphical way of making apps, rather than typing out java, which i dont understand anyways.
<brobostigon> allows*
<ali1234> brobostigon: i have a small list of apps that you can't make with it, or can't make easily...
<ali1234> for example, try making a paint program
<willy1977> that sounds pretty nifty
<brobostigon> ali1234: elaborate. why ?
<ali1234> try it and see
<ali1234> basically if there isn't a widget that already does exactly what you want, you can't do it
<brobostigon> ali1234: there is a tutorial for a paint pro ontheir site.
<ali1234> link please
<brobostigon> one minute.
<brobostigon> http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/learn/tutorials/paintpot/paintpot-part1.html
<brobostigon> i interpret that as a pain prog.
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> so they have "DrawingCanvas" to handle it...
<brobostigon> ali1234: i havent looked closely as to how it works.
<ali1234> looks like it works in a fairly sensible way
<ali1234> just connect the canvas.touched to the drawing function
<ali1234> makes sense
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok.
<ali1234> of course, extending it with more interesting painting tools would be a challenge... like a blur/smudge tool for example
<brobostigon> ali1234: soany ideas, of something fairly easy to start,i could challange,
<ali1234> a spell checker?
<ali1234> i tend to think if it's easy it's not worth doing
<oimon> cool. playing with a polarising filter on my camera - i can turn it so that LCD screens are completely black on photos :)
<brobostigon> ali1234: itend to think, to start my brain going, startwith something easier, and then toto something harder to challange it.
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azVqekQBK8g
<MartijnVdS> Whoa.. just came across a snake on lunch break
<directhex> escaped from bronx zoo?
<shauno> escaped from a nokia :/
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Snake
<MartijnVdS> ^ one of those
<shauno> funky
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Wuss that's not a big snake
<shauno> all the grass I found in holland was in bags too small to fit a snake in :o)
<MartijnVdS> http://t.co/BpPmdeg
<MartijnVdS> ^ the snake
<shauno> nice hat!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: coworker hiding from other coworker's annoying questions :)
<shauno> that works?!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: only if you do it like that
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Nice
<shauno> is the sunflower also necessary?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: of course!
<shauno> hm.  this could be difficult
<willy1977> /Nhttp://t.co/BpPmdeg
<MartijnVdS> willy1977: please try again :)
<willy1977> doh
<willy1977> nice looking beast...
<DJones> 10:02 < oimon> probably the same ones who use pine still/
<MartijnVdS> (for reference: the pavement tiles are 30x30cm)
<DJones> grr, stupid putty
<willy1977> DJones: definitely stupid putty just caught me out too :/
<oimon> importing images using shotwell feels slower than fspot :S
<Oli``> Very off-topic question: Does anybody know where I can get a standard UK tap - to - European tap converter? I've got a silly Gardena timer and the tap screw is like 7mm too wide for the tap and it didn't come with a step-up converter... I've tried searching but I don't have a clue what I should be asking google for
<popey> Oli``: B&Q?
<Oli``> popey: haven't tried them specifically but I did troll around a smaller garden centre for 20 minutes and everybody thought I was a bit mad
<davmor2> Oli``: why not just get the right sized tap fitting and attach it directly to the hose?
<Oli``> davmor2: it's not a hose, it's a watering timer. A little grey box that screws right onto the tap, I had a hozelock one but it died in the ice and was given this as a replacement
<davmor2> Oli``: Ah I see
<Oli``> This, essentially: http://pan.fotovista.com/dev/6/1/02728816/l_02728816.jpg
<Oli``> Although ours doesn't have the dark grey adapter in the top of the lighter grey screw... That's the bit we need =(
<popey> Oli``: plumbers merchants?
<bigcalm> ScrewFix?
<seeker> Duct tape?
<bigcalm> Silly putty?
<willy1977> how about searching for gardena spares uk ?
<Oli``> Yeah I guess that's what it'll have to be: B&Q, Screwfix and then bodging it on with some high-tensile duct tape
<willy1977> just looks like that grey thing should've come as part of the unit to me.
<Oli``> willy1977: because that just makes too much sense
<Oli``> Found one lol
<Oli``> http://www.watering.co.uk/pack-of-2-threaded-adaptors-fits-top-of-timer-to-std-3-4-bsp-threaded-tap-924-p1302.html
<willy1977> http://www.watering.co.uk/pack-of-2-threaded-adaptors-fits-top-of-timer-to-std-3-4-bsp-threaded-tap-924-p1302.html
<Oli``> jinx
<willy1977> oh for goodness sake...
<willy1977> not quite Oli`` just my ham fisted-ness at work again.
<X3N> really annoying when you find a patch that you want to use but is only in ubuntu :|
<oimon> x3n which bug?
<Accidental> Hi Paula from Fossbox said someone may be able to help me.  We have Ubuntu installed on our charity's computer and it worked well for a few weeks.  Now it won't boot automatically; instead we get the following page: GNU GRUB version 1.98 + 20100804-5ubuntu3 GNU GRUB version 1.98+20100802-5ubuntu3 Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic Memory test (memtest86+) Memory test (memtest+, serial console 115200).  Can you advise?
<ali1234> select Linux 2.6.35-22-generic and press enter
<X3N> oimon: not a bug, ubuntu pataches gnome-settings-daemon to do it's own thing with the osd volume display, it would be useful if it was exposed in other distros
<UndiFineD> Accidental, you could install the application startup-manager, which will let you tweak grub options and boot automatically again, perhaps waiting time is set to a high value
<willy1977> X3N: I see, so you'd have to get the source from ubuntu's slice of gnome-settings-daemon and somehow wedge that into the other distro's version of gnome-settings-daemon - I guess?
<willy1977> brb
<Accidental> Please could you let me know how to install the application startup-manager; will it be obvious how to tweak the grub options?
<X3N> Accidental: go to add/remove programs and search for startupmanager
<Accidental> Unfortunately I'm not in front of the computer itself today (working from another place).
<X3N> are you connected via ssh?
<Accidental> Not sure what ssh is - I really am an 'accidental techie'...
<daubers> Accidental: Where abouts is the charity based?
<ging> oh i installed grub 2 from grub 1.5 and now it wont boot
<ging> it chainloaded from grub 1.5 to grub 2 fine so i did the command to upgrade it and it still has grub 1.5 trying to boot and now failing
<ging> i think i installed grub 2 to the wrong device
<Accidental> We're in Islington off the Holloway Road.
<X3N> Accidental: what does your charity do out of interest?
 * ging mumbles about having to google his own solutions because everyone is out enjoying sunshine in pub gardens
<brobostigon> ging: i am not, :(
<ging> well i have to work tonight so i can't
<brobostigon> :(
<ging> might have a bbq on sunday
<Accidental> supports children and adolescents who arrive as unaccompanied refugees who have had to leave their home country because of war,etc
<ging> Accidental: i'm sure recent events will be keeping you busy for a while
<MooDoo> cool emails should come to me then as well as i'm signed up tooalright all?
<MooDoo> oops i meant
<MooDoo> ALRIGHT ALL :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: how's the back today?
<Accidental> Yes, increasingly busy
<davmor2> MooDoo: I asked that one earlier,  she'll be as annoying as ever next week she says \o/
<MooDoo> davmor2: yay let's see if we can break her :)
<AlanBell> no breaking czajkowski until after the 15th
<davmor2> MooDoo: lets not hey, week after she'll be fighting fit
<MooDoo> okey :) 15th sounds good :) that's my birthday :D
 * daubers goes on holiday on the 15th \o/
<daubers> On a seperate topic... how many charities are we aware of that use Ubuntu in the UK? And should we as a team be trying to support them in a more organised manner?
<daubers> should qualify that as small charities
<AlanBell> there is an #ubuntu-ngo team and channel (not very active)
<daubers> Any idea who is the lead in that team?
<DJones> daubers: In the past when I went out to charity clients, they were all using windows for internal systems, most of them used some sort of proprietry software to manage their database & committed donations from the public
<DJones> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ngo
 * DJones notes that the wiki says "talk to Laura or Daniel", could that be a Laura cz[tab]
<daubers> I was more contemplating the idea of if there was a (small) charity who needed some help with Ubuntu machines, could we as a group provide them with people/resources/what ever to help/train/advise their support people? Or would we be treading on toes by doing so
<AlanBell> DJones: it is
<ali1234> any time you give out free advice you're treading on someone's toes
<AlanBell> charities have complicated accounting requirements
<AlanBell> ringfenced funds all over the place
<daubers> AlanBell: Thats kinda why I dictates "small" :)
<AlanBell> size doesn't matter
<AlanBell> (or so they say)
<MooDoo> haven't been into the ngo channel in ages
<AlanBell> even small charities get grants for things
<AlanBell> or donations for things
<AlanBell> and they have to account for the right bit of money being spent on the right stuff
<daubers> AlanBell: You say that, but having done some work for a couple of big charities, and some stuff for some smaller one, the smaller ones care more about getting stuff done, while the bigger ones care more on the paperworky stuff :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Didn't say anything on spending money. Was more of a thing on a volunteer basis
<AlanBell> sorry, yes, I agree
<DJones> Plus from the ones I've dealt with, MS seem to have quite a hold on them in that they get heavily discounted software eg MS Office for Â£10
<AlanBell> I proposed a project some time ago to do a chart of accounts for gnucash for small charities, but there was little interest in doing it
<daubers> Just something like Accidental's issue. If someone was around Islington and could pop in for half an hour over lunch to give some advice kinda thing
<oimon> +1
<ali1234> that pretty much means anyone in london...
<AlanBell> yeah, there is a lot of cheap software pumped into the charitable sector so that proprietary companies can account for it as corporate social responsibility
<ali1234> (i've been, they have trains)
<daubers> ali1234: Takes about an hour and a half for me to get there :p
<ali1234> it takes an hour and a half to get between any two points in london
<DJones> I would say the ones that provide computers/access to computers for people could well be interested though, they'd presumably be interested as ubuntu/linux software would be free, they'd probably be installing on donated equipment etc
<daubers> DJones: Those are the people we'd be able to help more
<daubers> An interesting thing to ponder on for a little while anyway
<ging> ah i dont get it i've proper screwed up my laptop by installing grub2
<ali1234> why did you install grub2?
<ali1234> more omportantly, why didn't you already have it?
<ging> ali1234: well i had upgraded several times so i was still on old grub
<oimon> is it considered bad taste to take photos in a graveyard?
<ging> oimon: depends on the photos
<oimon> shots of pretty bluebells among the gravestones
<ging> no
<oimon> i wonder if people would be offended by that
<ali1234> a photo of you pointing at the tombstones and laughing is probably bad taste
<oimon> i was also fully clothed :)
<ging> it would be bad taste if the bluebells were replaced with girls with a lot of exposed flesh
<DJones> oimon: Is the graveyard attached to a church or seperate from a specific church
<oimon> separate and unused in over 100 yrs.
<ali1234> dressing like a zombie is also not a good idea
<oimon> i already took the photos
<oimon> although i always feel conspicous when taking photos of everyday objects
<oimon> like patterns on things...people give you weird looks
<DJones> oimon: I would think that as long they were tasteful shouldn't be a problem, if its photo's of a bring a spade party.... maybe not
<ali1234> take a photo of them giving you a funny look
<popey> take a photo of them punching you in the face
<ali1234> make a photoblog out of it
<ali1234> even better
<shauno> I think with almost anything in a graveyard, it's not what you're doing, but how you do it.
<ali1234> i would read that blog
<oimon> ali1234: a photoblog of photos taken while punching people? i would read that too
<shauno> if you're quiet and respectful, you're already way ahead of 99% of the disasters we see in public :)
<ali1234> http://www.brendanhughes.com/pictures-of-people-punching-me-in-the-face
<oimon> i don't believe it!
<popey> haha, brilliant
<oimon> goes to show, someone somewhere has already done whatever you are thinking of, it just has to be marketed right
<oimon> not the best pics because i was rushing, but it's a beautiful sight irl https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5RngH0JYp_ulO6Kyo6Hhe2KtutltVwpUXNnARE5AE8M?feat=directlink
<AlanBell> my oggcamp mug has sprung a leak
<davmor2> AlanBell: you weren't meant to use it
<popey> oh noes
 * AlanBell wants a refund
<popey> you aren't meant to use it to hammer nails in
<bigcalm> You weren't meant to use it for cake
<AlanBell> there is a tiny chip on the inside
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> yeah, it is the one I made cake in
<bigcalm> AlanBell: araldite
<ging> is there a way to boot from a live cd then use apt-get from there but to point it at the local harddrive to add/remove packages?
<davmor2> AlanBell: Sure you need to take depreciation into account so by now .....carry the one.........collectors item......carry 3.......you'll owe them around a Â£5
<ali1234> ging: yes
<AlanBell> coffee has seeped through and comes out of the glaze on the outside
<daubers> AlanBell: At least you can get a new one soon-ish :)
<DJones> If it wasn't so late in cycle, I'd be tempted to get a mug thats for sale in the shop next door with Meerkats on it
<AlanBell> daubers: good point
<AlanBell> so popey, when exactly do I get a new one?
<popey> when:-
<popey> a) they are designed
<popey> b) they are made & shipped
<popey> c) you pay for them
<bigcalm> Pay?
<AlanBell> so no date yet then!
<exobuzz> does anyone know if the locked top panel on ubuntu natty with unity, is something that is planned to be fixed, - i mean if unity is to be default, it seems a bit of an oversight to not allow people to add their own applets
<popey> the panel isnt for applets
<ali1234> exobuzz: it's not planned to be "fixed"
<exobuzz> where should i put my time tracker applet then? :)
<oimon> hamster?
<exobuzz> yeh
<ali1234> exobuzz: rewrite it to use indicators
<exobuzz> ugh
 * exobuzz uninstall ubuntu
<oimon> exobuzz: hold on 2 secs...
<ali1234> exobuzz: switch to classic
<oimon> saw a blog post the other day about hasmter
<exobuzz> yeh i know, i was trying really trying to like unity
<Laney> is there a cross-DE solution for that kind of thing?
<popey> bug 686062
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 686062 in hamster-applet (Ubuntu) "hamster-applet should have appindicator support" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686062
<oimon> http://albertomilone.com/wordpress/?p=502
<ali1234> Laney: if by "cross-desktop" you mean "works on gnome, kde, xfce, lxde", then yes
<exobuzz> thanks.
<exobuzz> i got a feeling users are not going to like this.
<ali1234> heh.
<exobuzz> the beta  reviews haven't been good - at least the ones i bumped into
<popey> I have only seen one
<exobuzz> i saw two
<ali1234> i haven't bothered to read any because i already know i don't like it
<exobuzz> the register and one other one.
<brobostigon> i tend not trust reviews, i tend to like to try stuff myself, andmake my own judgement.
<exobuzz> yeh and i installed ubuntu
<exobuzz> and i don't like it ;-)
<ali1234> "worst ubuntu beta ever" - the register. lol
<HazRPG> my ubuntu swag has been sent \o/
<oimon> i like the fact that we get a public holiday for the release of natty
<davmor2> ali1234: why?
<HazRPG> meerkat tee + hoody on its way :)
<ali1234> davmor2: i dunno, read the review
<HazRPG> oimon: we do?
<oimon> yeah
<popey> pffft, meerkats are so last year
<HazRPG> *\o/*
<davmor2> ali1234: I meant why do you know you don't like it?
<ali1234> davmor2: oh. because i tried it
<exobuzz> regarding applets, users are not going to care if there is a new better system, they just want their stuff to work.
<oimon> HazRPG: actually it's the day after release, 29th april
<davmor2> ali1234: I didn't think I'd like it buat now I can't get used to using this box (maverick)
<HazRPG> popey: still one of my favourite builds so far along with koala and jackalope
<ali1234> davmor2: i don't like global menus, i don't like docks, i don't like the start menu
<ali1234> i pretty much don't like anything about it
<ali1234> i also don't like buttons on the left
<ali1234> i don't even like the new themes
<exobuzz> i dont like the global menus on my highres computer, i like em on a 800x480 machine - showing that you cant always do something for everything
<ging> oh i think i've just wiped my hard drive
<ging> stupid ext4
<HazRPG> erm... don't know who started it, but well my argument is that some of the people I've converted are only *just* getting to grips with the layout of gnome2... introducing them to natty is going to be a living nightmare for me
<exobuzz> ali1234, might be quicker to list what you do like :) hehe
<ali1234> exobuzz: i don't like *any* of it
<exobuzz> ali1234, i like slightly more than you, but not much
<ali1234> i don't like how the dock autohides either
<oimon> ali1234: this is why i need a dock: http://i.imgur.com/zChuy.png
<exobuzz> you can control the autohide from compiz config which isnt installed by default ;-)
<ali1234> i don't like that you can only have 1 dock
<ali1234> and i don't like that it has to be on the left hand side
<dogmatic69> oimon: you running one of them windows viruses?
<HazRPG> oimon: holy cow and I thought I was bad!
<oimon> what?
<exobuzz> at least they didnt remove classic mode - if they really plan to do that for the next release, then ..
<HazRPG> oimon: is that how many apps you have open?!
<oimon> i just use lots of applications at once
<oimon> yes
<HazRPG> woahhh
<ali1234> oimon: see there's two problems there: firstly, you have crammed the taskbar into the same panel as the menu and tray, and secondly, you're not using the virtual desktops
<HazRPG> oimon: that's what my chrome browser looks like most days :P
<ali1234> unity won't make things any better for you
<oimon> i have 90 windows showing in alt-tab
<exobuzz> look like you need grouped tasks or so
<daubers> ali1234: I love the dock autohide! Had me amused for weeks!!
<oimon> ali1234: i use docky
<davmor2> ali1234: the theme is the same one as in lucid and maverick, the backdrop is pretty much identical to mavericks, they got rid of one bar at the bottom and made it autohide on the side, not sure I see the issue?
<ali1234> davmor2: yeah i didn't like those themes in maverick or lucid either
<ali1234> davmor2: i still use human theme
<davmor2> ali1234: you know you can change them right?
<ali1234> davmor2: to human theme, yes
<ali1234> but you can't change the theme of the dock
<oimon> docky reduces all my windows to this: http://i.imgur.com/995ga.png
 * brobostigon is happy with with gnome3/gnome-shell, endof;
<exobuzz> i was using linux mint, but i dislike that users have little way apart from the forum to feeding bugs back, and further route upstream. i do like the simple layout though. but at least ubuntu has a bugtracker i can write on (of course they will be mostly ignored but) ;-)
<ali1234> davmor2: they also remvoed all the functionality of the top panel that i use and replaced it with inferior versions: start menu, and systray -> indicator
<ali1234> so now the top pael might as well not even be there
<oimon> ali1234: i agree with a lot of what you are saying. i am just hoping unity will improve gradually
<oimon> i am seeing signs that it is improving
<ali1234> oimon: you mean like empathy did? (lol)
<davmor2> ali1234: but that is the same in gnome 3 only more so
<oimon> and hacks can move buttons and docs and launchers etc
<exobuzz> personally i think if you are doing "experiments" it should be optional until its truly ready
<exobuzz> it still feels like an experiment to me
<ali1234> davmor2: yup i hate gnome-shell too
<davmor2> ali1234: so don't use them go with something else
<HazRPG> davmor2: the argument that the bottom bar is now the left auto-hide *thing* is invalid... because a) you can see your virtual spaces just at a glance on the bottom; b) the applications running per screen (ali1234, thanks for that tip btw :)); and c) a show desktop icon if needed... you can even add more stuff if needs be down there
<oimon> gnome shell is a tablet DE
<ali1234> for months now i've been saying that the only good thing about unity is "at least it's not gnome-shell"
<oimon> (IMHO)
<exobuzz> brb - switching to ubuntu classic - need my applets
<HazRPG> oimon: so is unity in all fairness
<ali1234> HazRPG: unity not usable on a tablet due to it's overuse of mouseover to unhide things
<ali1234> (that's another thing i don't like about it)
<hamitron> why is it changing if so many hate it? :/
<oimon> HazRPG: but more hackable i think, and mark seems to agree on any cool plugin/feature that is suggested , within reason
<HazRPG> ali1234: I guess, but you could stop it auto-hiding
<ali1234> hamitron: because ubuntu is not a democracy
<oimon> ali1234: unity requires too much keyboard input - more than gnome classic
<ging> ali1234: how do i use the live cd to modify the packages installed on my hdd then i can't figure it out
<ali1234> ging: you boot up and then chroot into the harddrive root filesystem then use it like normal
<ali1234> !chroot
<lubotu3> A chroot is used to make programs believe that the directory they are running in is really the root directory. It can be used to stop programs accessing files outside of that directory, or for compiling 32bit applications in a 64bit environment - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BasicChroot
<hamitron> ali1234: neither are many companies, but it still makes sense to try to provide what people want
<ali1234> hmm that's not really what i expected
<brobostigon> oimon: the less i have to use my mouse the better, it wastes alot of time moving my hands around, so the more natural keyboard controls the better.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I guess... but well your more likely to suffer RSI over-using the keyboard too
<hamitron> brobostigon: putting your greasy paws on the screen and having to clean it each day, is the way forward ofc ;)
<davmor2> HazRPG: It was an analogy rather than an exact duplication.  I actually prefer the zoom out approach as it means you can actually see what is going on in each desktop, per application is still in place and show desktop is a shortcut for minimise all iirc
<oimon> exobuzz: do you know it is possible to whitelist apps that require the systray
<brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, but, i prefer my keyboard, :)
<brobostigon> hamitron: i hope not, :(
<exobuzz> oimon, how do you mean ?
<ali1234> hamitron: all tech companies today want to be "social"
<oimon> exobuzz: if you want to use an app in natty, but the icon does not appear in systray, you can whitelist it to appear there
<ali1234> hamitron: look at the google +1 stuff
<HazRPG> davmor2: yeah it is, erm, I thought that's what mod4+e was?
<exobuzz> oimon, it's an applet issue not a systray issue
<ali1234> hamitron: it's insane, it might even hurt them quite badly
<exobuzz> oimon, i need to use an applet. hence i just switched to classic mode
<hamitron> +1?
<ging> ali1234: so i just do "sudo chroot /media/something/ apt-get" and it'll work like it was running on the installed copy ? or do i need to use a pipe or something?
<HazRPG> davmor2: mod4+e shows you all workspaces in much the same way, and that's been there since compiz's inclusion into it
<ali1234> users flocked to google precisely because it wasn't loaded down with the usual webportal crap that all the other sites had
<hamitron> meh, I think I have it easier burrying my head in the sand
<ali1234> but now somebody decided that actually what google needs to do is... fill their site with social content! (which is just the new equivalent of web portal crap)
<ali1234> the me menu is borne of the same silliness
<davmor2> HazRPG: and I love the ctrl+alt+t for a terminal
<HazRPG> davmor2: I changed that to mod4+t ;)
<ali1234> ging: no not really, not like that at all
<oimon> ali1234: I never , ever use the memenu
<HazRPG> davmor2: that way I can do it with one hand rather then 2
<hamitron> I liked it when the web served you content, and the users job was to read ;)
<HazRPG> davmor2: since I can't see a natural way of doing ctrl+alt+t without fumbling my hands around
<ali1234> oimon: i removed the whole thing from my panel... can't do that on unity though
<davmor2> HazRPG: I do it with one hand anyway, maybe I have large hands :D
<HazRPG> davmor2: although ctrl+alt+t has been around for a while too if I recall though
<exobuzz> HazRPG, its easy if you have a forefinger twice as long as other fingers
<HazRPG> or maybe its just always the first thing I do on each fresh install :P
<HazRPG> I use mod4 for a lot of things, because well its an unused key most of the time
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Mod4? Winkey?
<davmor2> HazRPG: Never knew about it till I read askubuntu unity keyboard and mouse shortcuts
<exobuzz> large hands..
<HazRPG> mod4+left OR right, and that skips my music, mod4 up = play/pause, mod4 down = stop, mod4+home/end = vol up/down, mod4+del = mute
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah winkey
<HazRPG> davmor2: I always look under keyboard shortcuts to see what changes has happened, and to see what I can configure
<davmor2> ali1234: what are you going to use instead of gnome/unity then are you moving to XFCE?
<ali1234> davmor2: i'm going to use gnome classic
<ali1234> davmor2: and i'm going to configure it to look like karmic, the last version of ubuntu that worked properly ootb
<oimon> i will probably use gnome classic too and then assess the unity situation in 11.10
<HazRPG> I also have mod4+f1 to f4 for usual apps :)
<oimon> woops, looks like hazrpg did an alt-f4
<ali1234> alt-f4 turns on god mode!
<oimon> did you know that you password appears as ******* when you type it in irc :P
<MartijnVdS> haz needs to use screen with his irssi :)
<davmor2> ali1234: and what you going to do in 11.10?  no classic mode there
<HazRPG> grr, don't know what happened there
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: screen, then irssi
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not irssi in a terminal :)
<ali1234> davmor2: yeah right
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Alt+F4 vs Mod4+F4
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: byobu :)
<ali1234> davmor2: 11.10 isn't even specced yet
<davmor2> ali1234: no seriously!  It's already been announced
<HazRPG> oimon: who's password? what?
<ali1234> davmor2: i don't see how it's possible to remove classic mode
<ali1234> davmor2: are they going to specifically prevent me from installing gnome panel? remove gtk+2 maybe?
<oimon> HazRPG: http://www.bash.org/?244321
<davmor2> ali1234: unity 2d instead
<HazRPG> oimon: bah! lol
<ali1234> davmor2: classic isn't something made by canonical, it's part of gnome
<popey> it wont be on the cd i think davmor2 means
<popey> so you wont get that session option
<ali1234> big deal, half the programs i use now aren't on the CD
<popey> sure, I'm just clarifying
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: its not irssi that closed the channel, it was pidgin :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: use irssi! drop pidgin!
<hamitron> ubuntu as a collection of software is moving further away from what I want each time, but still a good base to work on :)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: Xubuntu \o/
<davmor2> popey: no for 11.10 I think gnome 3 will be in the repos and unity no classic gnome full stop
<ali1234> gnome 3 includes classic mode
<hamitron> xfce is not great either ;/
<popey> meh
<popey> its not decided fully yet
<hamitron> lxde <3
<popey> given they haven't even decided fully if 11.04 is going to have unity by default, what 11.10 will have by default is well open
<davmor2> popey: nope but it'll be a fun UDS for sure
<popey> for some
<ali1234> for the trolls :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: that mailing list thread you linked to this morning is all "OH WOW UNITY IS SO GREAT"
<davmor2> popey: I'm only there cause we happen to have a sprint at the same time :)
<MartijnVdS> I can't be the only hater ;)
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: the thread on sounders is exactly the opposite
<ali1234> at least it was until it degenerated into an argument about the middle east
<hamitron> is there probably gonna be a Gubuntu for vanilla Gnome?
<DJones> Is sounder still going, I thought it had been closed down last year
<willy1977> whilst I don't have much exp. with classic I find unity confusing and those global menus are not there when I need them... I switched to "classic" as I find that more intuitive... but I'll have to keep trying I guess.
<brobostigon> hamitron: venilla gnome now, is gnome3.
<popey> DJones: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2011-April/016351.html
<HazRPG> hamitron: I hope so!
<HazRPG> hamitron: if not, I think we should make it so!
<oimon> isn't it concerning that so many hardcore ubuntu users are worried about whether they can use it in future?
<popey> dunno, is it?
<HazRPG> oimon: I'd say it was!
<DJones> popey: I seem to remember a similar mail/meeting last year with sabdfl getting involved
<hamitron> if there are enough who want it, there will be enough to make it exist
<popey> yup DJones
<popey> I actually argued with sabdfl that sounder should _not_ be shutdown
<ali1234> popey: u mad cos of david gerard?
<HazRPG> but I have a feeling canonical is trying to span out more users... however I feel this is a BAD way of doing so.
<popey> ali1234: apparently
<brobostigon> hamitron: i agree, i would want an ubuntu remix asentially, with pure gnome3, and and not having to ass it seperatly.
<hamitron> "span out"?
<brobostigon> add*
<DJones> popey: Maybe suggest handing the sounder ML over to #defocus admins
<HazRPG> hamitron: well reach a bigger user base
<ali1234> if anything that list serves the purpose of keeping most of the trolling in one place :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: try and tab the tablet market
<popey> ali1234: that is a point of view expressed by many :)
<ali1234> and i only see "most" because i don't post there
<HazRPG> hamitron: so that it gets preinstalled as standard with more manufacturers, but this is just speculation on my part
<ali1234> *say
<hamitron> HazRPG: there is nothing wrong with expanding, and changing things to do so, but always a good idea to try not to isolate the original audience
<HazRPG> hamitron: bingo!
<HazRPG> hamitron: my argument exactly
<HazRPG> hamitron: personally, I don't think it would hurt at liveCD/install time to ask if you want gnome2 or unity
<HazRPG> if CD space is too much trouble
<HazRPG> have gnome2 a download option at install  time (much like it does with updates on install)
<ali1234> there's the alternate CD for that stuff
<hamitron> I don't see it much of an issue, just install cli or alt cd
<oimon> popey: they should just rename the sounder list to trollfarm and leave it at that
<brobostigon> HazRPG: unity, gnome2, or gnome3. :)
<hamitron> or kde
<hamitron> or xfce
<hamitron> or lxde
<hamitron> or fluxbox, etc (I'll stop now)
<brobostigon> hamitron: xubuntu- kubuntu- lubuntu, :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: heh taking it too far...
<ali1234> what about... fvwm96
<oimon> i know people that still use fvwm
<hamitron> the 1 problem I have.... they seem to be hiding the more advanced installation options from the front page
<HazRPG> hamitron: ubuntu as a thing is gnome/debian based distro with a reasonable release cycle... its why we like it so much
<brobostigon> if gnome should be an option next to unity, then justas much, so should gnome3,
<HazRPG> hamitron: however if they want it to have unity, give users the option... the liveCD already gives you the option at start if you want to boot to the liveCD or to the LiveInstall
<hamitron> I had to use google to find the mini.iso!
<ali1234> just... no
<popey> !mini
<lubotu3> The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want (the installer is like the one on the !Alternate CD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<shauno> I still wanna know how they stuffed up the global menu so badly :/
<hamitron> popey: stop wrecking my arguements plz, ty ;)
<popey> np
<ali1234> !pxe
<popey> :(
<hamitron> !netboot
<lubotu3> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall - Don't want to use a CD? See http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
<popey> that needs a factoid
<HazRPG> hamitron: in all fairness ya should have tried the factoid in the first place :P
<popey> ahhh
<popey> \o/
<popey> hamitron: its a draw
<hamitron> !pxe would be better
<lubotu3> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<ali1234> that factoid isn't that helpful
<ali1234> it doesn't tell me where to get the pxe bootfiles
<popey> !automate
<lubotu3> Ways to automate installation of Ubuntu on multiple machines are described at https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/automatic-install.html - See also !cloning
<davmor2> hamitron: Why the cd image is called netboot?
<popey> feel free to improve it :)
<ali1234> that has nothing to do with pxe?
<hamitron> but I still don't like the ubuntu.com webpage, hiding everything
<ali1234> the real instructions are here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallServer
<ging> yay i have grub back and i didnt wipe my hdd
<shauno> \o/
<ging> that was a stessful hour
<ali1234> but even that tells you to get the files from the CD... but i know they're on the archives somewhere
<ali1234> ok i eventually found them: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
<ging> i can't wait till they bring out grub 3
<hamitron> ali1234: it is maybe because there is so much information to look through, with ubuntu doing a very good job at everything?
<ali1234> hamitron: no, it's because there's too much documentation and not enough getting to the point
<hamitron> ali1234: yeh, maybe :)
<shauno> heh, I hate clients that send parts instead of just disconnecting :/
<HazRPG> agreed
<HazRPG> what is a part anyways?
<shauno>  /part
<shauno> it's how you leave a room :o)
<willy1977> leaves just that channel doesn't it ;)
<HazRPG> i thought that was what /leave was for
<shauno> that's what's messing with the proxy.  some clients will just disconnect, some get funny about cleaning up their windows
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i use /wc
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> I must say I do really like irssi proxy
<HazRPG> I've got my phone hooked up now too :)
<brobostigon> me too,
<gord> irssi proxy ended up just getting in the way for me, switched to znc
<gord> much nicer
<shauno> I tend to have irssi going most the time anyway.  it's what I connect from work with, etc
<shauno> so I just leave it there and attach a gui to it when I get home :)
<gord> yeah, it wasn't long after i switched away from irssi-proxy that i stopped using irssi entirely
<HazRPG> i think i'd probably confuse too many people if i ever showed them irssi
<willy1977> i've only just started using irssi - seems pretty cool... nice and simple-ish
<willy1977> it can probably do loads more than I've got anywhere near yet of course :D
<hamitron> I use pidgin
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> omg, late for a cup of tea
<hamitron> brb, tea and cakes \o/
<xwx> helloã
<willy1977> hello
<Azelphur> hello
<HazRPG> hamitron: I had a vision of you running to the kitchen with your arms in the air because of the \o/ lol
<hamitron> HazRPG: it is certainly how I felt :)
<exobuzz> cake!!
<exobuzz> is anyone else finding this warm summer like weather is making them drink more beer ?
<bigcalm> Ale \o/
 * dogmatic69 ++
<davmor2> someone say cake
<bigcalm> c4k3
<dutchie> exobuzz: you say that like it is a bproblem
<davmor2> wow l33t cake
<exobuzz> dutchie, hehe
<exobuzz> dutchie, it can be ;-)
<hamitron> it certainly encourages me to drink more tea, compared to coffee
<hamitron> the transcoding performance of my i3 is disappointing
<hamitron> was expecting more compared to be budget c2d
<DJones> hamitron: i3? which one did you get
<hamitron> i3-550 3.2ghz I think
<hamitron> yeh
<DJones> right, I've just got an i3 350M
<hamitron> I'm finding it good for gaming
<DJones> retired my old 8100 :)
<hamitron> omg!
<hamitron> what you done/doing with it?
<DJones> Not sure yet, may stick lubuntu on it to see how it works & keep it for a while
<hamitron> I'm still using mine
<DJones> Although I've now got 3 old/oldish laptops sat doing nothing
<hamitron> LXDE runs sweet I find
<hamitron> tbh, my 8100 with lxde, runs better than my c2d with XP on
<hamitron> ;)
<DJones> Heh
<oimon> c2d?
<hamitron> core2 duo
<oimon> ah:P
<hamitron> it is only 2.2ghz though
<hamitron> having said that, the p3 is only 1.2ghz
<DJones> hamitron: p3? Is that the 8100, Mine was an Athalon
<hamitron> DJones: laptop?
<DJones> Yep
<DJones> At least I think it was
<hamitron> I'm sure
<DJones> Might be getting mixed up with my old desktop
<hamitron> my Inspiron 8100 has a 1.2ghz p3, and the latitude c810 has a 1.13ghz
<hamitron> I remember they came with both nvidia and ati cards
<hamitron> at the time I had to have the top nvidia one, even though the ati had 64mb memory :) nvidia drivers existed \o/
<hamitron> I sort of worshiped the dell laptops that year, while choosing which to get :/
<DJones> hamitron: I was the same, spent weeks picking out the best of the best
<hamitron> I spent 4 months
<hamitron> :D
<oimon> i got sent an audit questionnaire for our impending microsoftisation - asking for packages we use..i am sending rpm -qa > packages.txt
<hamitron> my first dell sales rep hung up on me after getting sick of me
<DJones> Decided since I was paying Â£2.5K, I wanted to get the most, latest, up to date, longest life etc
<hamitron> yeh
<DJones> I must dig out my old copy of Deus Ex and try it on this new laptop and see how it goes, it went quickly on the 8100
<hamitron> I'm playing with the idea of getting 2 more
<hamitron> we have a round table in the kitchen now, could be good with 4 laptops for some multiplayer gaming
<shauno> Is this normal ?   http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20shot%202011-04-08%20at%2016.39.06.png
<hamitron> old C&C or starcraft
<popey> shauno: bug innit
<DJones> hamitron: You could play "hearts" on winxp between the four laptops
<kazade> popey, where's the bug?
<hamitron> DJones: haha
<kazade> You mean "File ma" ?
<shauno> that's what I mean, atleast
<kazade> shauno, it's by design...
<shauno> seriously?
<kazade> yeah, like 90% sure
 * shauno boggles
<hamitron> !rtorrent
<hamitron> !torrent
<lubotu3> Torrent clients: Transmission (GTK and terminal-based), Deluge-Torrent, Freeloader, BitStormLite, BitTornado-GUI (GTK), KTorrent (KDE), QTorrent (Qt), Azureus (Java), TorrentFlux (web-based), bittornado, rTorrent, cTorrent, bittorrent, aria2 (terminal-based) - FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html - See also !P2P
<shauno> this isn't just aversity to change.  I've been using a mac as my main machine for 6 years.  a global menu bar isn't change.
<shauno> there is absolutely nothing about that thing that's right
<kazade> heh
<shauno> if I had to narrow it down to anything in specific, it's existance is probably a bug.
<shauno> the dock actually doesn't bother me.  I haven't found a pattern to when it thinks it should be on screen or not, but that's probably down to being used to another dock
<shauno> but I think kde's implementation of a global menu bar beat that thing 10 years ago.
<shauno> that can't be intentional.  the 'file ma' label should be aligned to the same position it is when the windows is maximized.
<kazade> shauno, does the label move when the menu is shown then?
<shauno> yes.  the window controls (Traffic lights) move to where 'file ma' is, and 'file ma' shifts to the right
<shauno> so when the menu autohides (I won't get into mystery meat navigation right now) it doesn't look like it was created by someone who's never seen a global menu before
<shauno> but when it's windows, the text label goes back to where the traffic lights were.
<shauno> uff, *windowed
<kazade> hmm, I dunno then, that could be a bug
<kazade> I know the overlapping label/menu isn't
<kazade> it's supposed to appear awkwardly over the end of the label (I think this is partly what MPT complained about a little while ago)
<shauno> that's what I can't get straight in my head
<shauno> "it's meant to be awkward"
<kazade> heh, I know shauno, don't even get me started ;)
<shauno> if they're going to autohide over the top of it (which they really, really shouldn't), they should atleast be consistent about it
<kazade> well, really, they shouldn't be hiding it at all...
<kazade> god knows how touch screens are gonna work with that..
<shauno> that label is my only point of reference for where the thing that I want to click on but can't see is.  don't move the only point of reference I've got left.
<kazade> shauno, https://twitter.com/#!/jonobacon/status/56385297189056512
<shauno> 'file' appearing over the start of the text label is about the only shred of muscle memory that leaves intact.  so they move the label.  gah.
<ubuntu> popey: hi
<ubuntu> I was trying to install 10.10 on USB
<ubuntu> kaushal here
<kaushal> hi
<shauno> sorry, that wasn't meant to be a rant.  I thought I hadn't managed to apply the default settings properly.  I wasn't expecting "oh, we know".
<kaushal> due to which i broke my production laptop
<hamitron> :/
<kaushal> I get a grub> prompt
<bigcalm> We learn a lot by breaking stuff :D
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/591306/
<popey> kaushal: i suspect you have overwritten your grub bootloader
<popey> rather than installing grub on the usb stick
<kaushal> my bad
<kaushal> :/
<kaushal> popey: i tried to fix it
<kaushal> Please guide
<shauno> have you taken a run thru https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub  ?
<kaushal> yes
<popey> kaushal: sorry, i am just packing up and leaving the office now
<bigcalm> popey: part timer!
<popey> I am working from home from 9pm until sunday lunchtime
<popey> :p
<popey> and by "working" I mean "watching an rsync in a screen"
<bigcalm> popey: Workaholic!
<bigcalm> Oh, fun
<popey> :)
<popey> copying ~4TB from here...                            to here...
<daubers> popey:  over single GigE?
<bigcalm> By working you mean playing minecraft while you have a terminal open
<popey> yus
<davmor2>  copying ~4TB from here... 1tb                           to here...
<popey> from one filer to another
<davmor2>  copying ~4TB from here...    1tb                        to here...
<popey> heheh
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2>  copying ~4TB from here...       1tb                     to here...
<davmor2> it start to slow in the middle it always does
<daubers> popey: Should only take ~10 hours if your drives can sustain saturated GigE
<popey> I'm getting ~70MB/s
<popey> right, home time.
<kaushal> shauno: please give me a moment
<kaushal> popey: will update you
 * kaushal rebooting my laptop 
<popey> its fairly easy to fix
<kaushal> yes it is
<bigcalm> Has anybody experienced <select>s not working in FireFox? By not working, I mean that clicking on them will not display available options. Using cursor keys does work though to cycle through the options
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> shauno: i tried following the steps as mentioned on the recovery grub2
<kaushal> it did not worked :/
<kaushal> i still get the grub> prompt
<kaushal> popey: sorry i got rebooted
<bigcalm> kaushal: he has gone home
<kaushal> oh ok
<kaushal> i mounted the boot partition
<kaushal> it gave "No error reported"
<kaushal> Anything else i am missing ?
<AlanBell> if anyone has unity questions David Barth, the Desktop Experience Engineering Manager is now doing a Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom
<AlanBell> and you can poke him with questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<AlanBell> ali1234: MartijnVdS ^^
<kaushal> AlanBell: ok
<kaushal> AlanBell: Shall i explain the issue ?
<HazRPG> woot! My Arabic recipe got added in Calibre :D
<HazRPG> score \o/
<kaushal> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/08/%23ubuntu-uk.html
<kaushal> I dont see the latest conversation
<HazRPG> kaushal: hmm?
<kaushal> I have by mistake broke my production laptop
<kaushal> :/
<kaushal> I mean overwritten the bootloader
<kaushal> followed the suggestion as mentioned by shauno
<kaushal> sudo grub-install --root-directory=/media/0d104aff-ec8c-44c8-b811-92b993823444 /dev/sda
<kaushal> i just got Installation finished. No error reported.
<kaushal> and rebooted and still get grub >
<shauno> I really don't have anything that isn't in the wiki.  I've not touched grub for a loooong time.
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> Anyone else can guide me ?
<HazRPG> I'm lost, what's up exactly?
<HazRPG> or rather what happened?
<kaushal> HazRPG: i have overwritten by bootloader on 10.10
<kaushal> while preparing persistence USB stick
<kaushal> I did followed https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<kaushal> Any clue ?
<HazRPG> you say you get a grub promt right?
<kaushal> yes
<HazRPG> prompt*
<HazRPG> oh
<HazRPG> ok*
<HazRPG> hang on a second
<kaushal> sure
<HazRPG> did you just copy and paste exactly was in the wiki?
<kaushal> nope
<HazRPG> oh, its just because you wrote: kaushal: sudo grub-install --root-directory=/media/0d104aff-ec8c-44c8-b811-92b993823444 /dev/sda
<kaushal> Are you asking about the UUID ?
<HazRPG> which is the exact same command as the wiki
<HazRPG> yeah
<kaushal> nope
<kaushal> thats the command i follow :)
<HazRPG> right, so when you typed mount | tail -1, it gave you /media/0d104aff-ec8c-44c8-b811-92b993823444 ?
<kaushal> sudo grub-install --root-directory=/media/56c0727a-78fb-4888-9f51-4cd5ca58533b /dev/sda
<kaushal> /dev/sda1 on /media/56c0727a-78fb-4888-9f51-4cd5ca58533b type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks)
<PalaPad_> What a day
<PalaPad_> Am knackered
<kaushal> Installation finished. No error reported.
<HazRPG> kaushal: ah, so you typed the right one for your system... that's okay... hmm
<kaushal> HazRPG: Anything else i need to do ?
<HazRPG> did you check that it was boot partition ?
<kaushal> yes
<HazRPG> ok
<MartijnVdS> Failing police in this town.. you're not allowed to use a bicycle in the main shopping street.
<MartijnVdS> What's the best way to give fines to people who do?
<MartijnVdS> Go after them on a motorbike of course!
<KrimZon> because unicycles are so much safer
<MartijnVdS> KrimZon: no, it's just not safe to cycle in a sea of walking people.. common sense
<KrimZon> oh, it's pedestrianized
<HazRPG> kaushal: hmm...
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRfluaMKoOY
<AlanBell> ooh heck, bit more nsfw than I thought
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: he sounds more northern english than dutch :)
<kaushal> HazRPG: Anything else to be done ?
<HazRPG> kaushal: erm...
<HazRPG> yes
<HazRPG> at the grub prompt try this
<HazRPG> root (hd
<HazRPG> but don't hit enter!
<HazRPG> press tab
<HazRPG> it should show you a list
<HazRPG> or it might just put in a 0
<kaushal> ok
<MartijnVdS> time to add some RAM, brb
<HazRPG> if you get a list, pick one of the hard drives by typing a number in
<HazRPG> (from the list)
<HazRPG> then put a comma, and then tab again
<HazRPG> the first number is the hard drive
<HazRPG> and the second number is the partition
<kaushal> ok
<HazRPG> actually, hang on... I'll see if I can find a site with this info on
<kaushal> root (hd0,1) setup (hd0,1)  ?
<kaushal> if boot is /dev/sda1 ?
<HazRPG> no, /dev/sda1 would be root(hd0,0)
<kaushal> ok
<HazRPG> because sda# usually starts with 1
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> HazRPG: will try it and update you
<kaushal> please give me a moment
<bigcalm> Have a good weekend everybody :)
<HazRPG> kaushal: here, I've found this site with some better instructions :) http://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=5025
<HazRPG> bigcalm: you off for the weekend or something?
<MartijnVdS> \o/ 8GB
<bigcalm> HazRPG: it's that time of the week again :)
<HazRPG> kaushal: if you follow that guide and can boot ubuntu back up, type in "sudo update-grub2" inside of ubuntu
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> sure
<MartijnVdS> directhex: How did that work? Dropping banshee CPU usage by that much?
<directhex> MartijnVdS: short version: a major reduction in the frequency with which the "now playing" text label is refreshed. it was several times per second before. next thing is to make it not update whilst minimized
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ooh..
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: nice timing with the ooh I'm currently listening to war of the worlds :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: don't tell the Wokingites :P
<davmor2> Mayberry hill
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> evening popeyman
<davmor2> morning popey
<Seeker`> bah, I want to be able to sit and watch TV on a friday evening, not have to fight with X -_-
<Seeker`> Hey, my pc has just failed to start X, using nvidia propietry drivers. Message in /var/log/Xorg.0.log is "Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device PCI:2:0:0", and the /var/log/kern.log file seems to suggest that "RmInitAdapter failed! (0x26:0xffffffff:1028)", although the first item that looks like a "fail" is "vmap allocation for size 16781312 failed: user vmalloc=<size> to increase size" <- if anyone has any bright ideas
<gord> Seeker`, try nouvou maybe?
<gord> really, if the nvidia driver fails you just have to shrug and go "okay"
<Seeker`> fixed it
 * gord claps
<Azelphur> Just did an update on natty, now I'm having issues with software sticky middle click, anyone else getting this?
 * Azelphur pokes popey
<gord> software sticky middle click?
<Azelphur> gord if you press and release middle click, it only sends a keydown event
<Azelphur> press and release again, it sends the keyup
<Azelphur> so middle click is like a toggle switch now :s
<Azelphur> really annoying breaks compiz rotate and my mouse gestures and paste :/
<MattJ> Feature!
<Azelphur> indeed \o/
<gord> Azelphur, eh? weird
<Azelphur> indeed, fun.
<gord> i can't confirm that here
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> gord done a natty update and an X restart today? :p
<gord> i did an update
<gord> oh yes and a restart
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> it just hates me personally then :D
<MattJ> Feature!
<jacobw> moo
<willy1977> evening
<daubers> evening
<AlanBell> o/ daubers
<daubers> Quiet around here this evening isn't it
<Pendulum> it is quiet today
 * Laney bangs some pots
 * AlanBell looks at lots of c++
<daubers> AlanBell: Urgh
<daubers> AlanBell: Thats not good for you you know
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> who thought writing compiz in something other than python was a good idea?
<daubers> heh, what're you trying to break in compiz?
 * popey ponders minecraft
<Seeker`> AlanBell: Fancy taking a look at my C instead?
<Seeker`> :P
<daubers> popey: I'm considering whether now is the right time to turn left towards rapture
<daubers> Might go forward another six blocks firts
<AlanBell> daubers: trying to get ezoom plugin to follow the text cursor
<AlanBell> I know how orca magnifier does it in python
<AlanBell> just need to do the same in C++, register for at-spi events and get the coordinates and move to them
<AlanBell> simples
<daubers> Doesn't sound it
<AlanBell> if only I knew c++
<daubers> Having spent the whole day compiling stuff, I think I can easily say tha all compiled languages are evil
<AlanBell> yeah, I haven't quite figured that bit out yet
<AlanBell> I managed to do it by dpkg-buildpackage then install the resulting deb
<AlanBell> however that is really slow, I just want to compile one little cpp file each time I edit it
 * hamitron will use everything compiled and let daubers just use the scripted stuff
<matti> ;]
<daubers> hamitron: I'm having to move more and more stuff into compiled languages lately for the performance :(
<hamitron> daubers: good :)
<hamitron> look at it as your part for saving the planet \o/
<daubers> hamitron: By saving GHz?
<AlanBell> meh to that
<daubers> Oh, anyone know a good textbook that talks about binary diffing?
<AlanBell> almost always the algorithm counts for much much more than the interpreted vs compiled difference
<hamitron> daubers: yeh, less speed can equal less need for power :)
<daubers> AlanBell: I've tested some of it in both :) Compiling it definatley helped
<AlanBell> yeah, but if you have a compiled routine that touches the disk once more per loop than an interpreted one then the interpreted one will win
<daubers> Most of the time I'm trying to _stop_ it touching the disk
<hamitron> AlanBell: that is really using an unfair comparison to make scripts look good ;/
<hamitron> like for like, compiled code is "better"
<daubers> AlanBell: Also, in the box that this is for, disk isn't too much of a bottleneck :)
<AlanBell> hamitron: sure, my point is that the algorithm is more important than the language
<hamitron> AlanBell: I'll accept that :)
<daubers> Oooh, didn't notice the ubuntu circle of friends doodah goes blue when an appliction wants your attention
<czajkowski> daubers: aye I find it an odd choice of colour
<daubers> czajkowski: \o/
<daubers> Hows your back?
<hamitron> a hot colour would be nicer?
<czajkowski> daubers: getting there slwoly but surely
<czajkowski> a week of resting sleeping and not being online has helped a lot
<daubers> czajkowski: My wifes cousin was rushed to surgery today to sort a slipped disk!
<daubers> czajkowski: Really do take it easy.
<czajkowski> that's one of my greatest fears
<czajkowski> surgey on my back
<czajkowski> it has only a 50/50 chance of success
<daubers> czajkowski: My boss has a slipped disk that can't be moved as it's pressing on some nerver or other, his dad has the same
<czajkowski> daubers: yup I'd need a neurosurgeon to operate on mine
<czajkowski> as nerve is caught down my left leg
<daubers> czajkowski: Ick
<czajkowski> yes
<daubers> czajkowski: Well, don't go breaking yourself!
<czajkowski> no intention of
<czajkowski> reason I've been offline and restging this week
<czajkowski> stayed in london and slept
<daubers> :)
<daubers> well, 'cept the first bit of that sentence
<daubers> stayinh in london is more of punishment
<czajkowski> nah it was all good
<popey> Azelphur: you about? i have a steam question
<Azelphur> yup
<popey> Azelphur: had problems where you cant logon to steam, try to reset pw and it wont accept it?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> popey: try doing it from steamcommunity.com ?
<popey> no
<popey> i havent
<Azelphur> I do have an issue where it stalls at logging in for anywhere up to 48 hours
<popey> hm
<popey> its asking for a code
<popey> ah, i have mail
<Azelphur> indeed
<popey> so i have logged in via the website now..
<popey> wonder why i couldn't with the client
<Dave2> SPOOOOOOOOON^WSTEAAAAAAAAAM GUAAAARD. *ahem*
<popey> but i cant login with the client now...bah
<Azelphur> popey: does it hang?
<popey> no, it just goes back to the logon screen
<Azelphur> no error?
<popey> hah, now its updating
<Azelphur> :D
<popey> sorted, seems like the steam guard thing is new?
<popey> new since i last used it
<Azelphur> popey: yep
<Azelphur> popey: they are quite proud of it and did a press release where gabe newell told everyone his password
<Azelphur> myself, I think it's irritating and turned it off :D
<popey> heh
<directhex> i turned it off too
<directhex> and the release version is not gabe's version
<directhex> gabe runs a steam beta which uses intel's cpu-based drm
<directhex> the normal version isn't as smart
<Seeker`> so, should I get minecraft?
<hamitron> bad for your health unless you are strong minded
<Seeker`> well, I managed to quit WoW cold turkey
<hamitron> if you can do that when needed, should be safe
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I'll be making a minecraft comeback soon
<hamitron> \o/
<popey> yay
<hamitron> I've been playing too much Hearts of Iron
<hamitron> :/
<Seeker`> bah, can't buy it :( servers busy :(
<popey> works fine here
<hamitron> I'm still annoyed it won't work with synergy
<hamitron> on the client comps anyway
<Seeker`> "Too many concurrent Sessions. Please try again later"
<popey> Seeker`: what url?
<Seeker`> http://www.minecraft.net/prepurchase.jsp
<Seeker`> then I enter my payment details, and the next page is "too many.."
<popey> ah
<matti> Hah.
<hamitron> ner ner ;)
<matti> I can't play 1080p ;/
<hamitron> :\
<Seeker`> you only have 1080p?
<directhex> press f11?
<MartijnVdS> I set up va-api (in vlc), now I can do 1080p
<Seeker`> aha, got it
<matti> It is tha my load average goes through the roof with 1080p
<matti> I guess some code(s) are not the most performent ones.
<matti> codec(s)
<matti> Huu...
<matti> Chillies were hot ;]
<matti> ;p
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-09
<HazRPG> \o
<hamitron> evening haz
<Seeker`> Anyone see "Campus"?
<hamitron> laters all o/
<ali1234> uh... so steam guard is equivalent to clicking "i forgot my password please send me a new one by email" every time i log in?
<HazRPG> ali1234: pretty much, cutting edge right!?
<HazRPG> I giggled the first time I saw it too
<HazRPG> although in a sense its sorta like an authenticator... if you take away the fact that you don't have to put the code in, nor do you have a generator
<ali1234> why don't they just implement openid?
<ali1234> SSO like openid works the same way as clicking "i forgot my password" (website sends you an auth token) - except it's all easy to use, and you don't have to wait for an email
<gord> eh no?
<gord> steam guard as far as i can tell is basically just linking steam accounts to computers
<ali1234> not according to the faq
<ali1234> well, kind of
<gord> nope. checked. its a way of locking accounts to computers
<ali1234> they send you an auth token by email but you only need it on an unrecognized computer, not every time you login
<gord> i don't like it myself, just another thing for me to screw up
<ali1234> wait... "Exit Steam, restart your computer, and log back into your account. This will generate a new verification email."
<ali1234> maybe that's only true on unrecognized computers
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> I think it basically does like what StyleXP did, when you open it up on a new machine and login, it generates a key from the hardware ID of something on your computer
<HazRPG> once you auth it, you basically say that you want that computer to be allowed to login as you
<HazRPG> if someone else tries to login from somewhere else, you get an email, but they can't use it until you accept generated key
<HazRPG> however StyleXP did this...
<gord> sigh, i'm in windows tonight. i keep trying to get to my launcher by throwing my mouse to the top left
<gord> windows is a pain :(
<HazRPG> ...and a keygen was created for that :/
<HazRPG> and so history might repeat itself
<gord> HazRPG, this is differrent, built into the cpu
<gord> intel tech that was basically made for anti-piracy
<HazRPG> gord: I'm pretty sure StyleXP said the same thing...
<gord> unless someone knows your id and can get their cpu (maybe in a virtual machine) to report the same id, iyou are fine
<gord> HazRPG, no, this is very very different
<HazRPG> hmm
<ali1234> not just anti-piracy... it's quite important for ecommerce too...
<ali1234> anyway steam guard doesn't use the intel stuff yet, as noted already
<directhex> spoooooooooooooooooonguaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard
 * MattJ looks at directhex and realises it's late
<Azelphur> I just sent my first pull request on github \o/
<MattJ> As long as you didn't send it to me
<MattJ> I've already got a backlog
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> feature for yaaic :D
<MattJ> iPhone support? :)
<Azelphur> hell no :D
<Azelphur> connect on startup.
<marsilainen> hi all
<marsilainen> I don't suppose anyone has tried using 'sympa' mailing list manager on ubuntu?
<marsilainen> the package in lucid seems broken somehow - when you install it, it starts it running but it crashes straight away with some sort of permissions issue
<marsilainen> can't seem to find much info of other people using it on ubuntu or debian tbh
<marsilainen> hmm, it looks like the config file is pointing at /usr/lib/sympa/... instead of /var/lib/sympa/...
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a packaging bug, please file it
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu-bug package_name_here
<MartijnVdS> that said, most people use mailman :)
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> and what fun things are people up to this weekend?
<czajkowski> going to a bbq late on
<czajkowski> hoping the sun stays out
<MartijnVdS> shouting at an old HP Evo
<MartijnVdS> ("Compiz, Y U blacklist i830 graphics?")
<czajkowski> there isa surrey lug meet up in redhat today also
<czajkowski> in farnborough from 11-5 if folks want to drop in
<AlanBell> interesting, there is an outside chance I could make that one for an hour or so
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/755311
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 755311 in Gwibber "cant add twitter account - sticks on verifying" [Undecided,New]
<brobostigon> found another bug
<DJones> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning DJones
<shauno> morning all
<brobostigon> morning shauno
<daubers> morning
<brobostigon> morning daubers
 * daubers potters into reading to pick up some warhammer figures
<shauno> this is just getting more and more confusing.  natty doesn't seem to boot in vmware with raw disk mode either ;/
<oimon> anyone running banshee 2.0?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<oimon> MartijnVdS: on lucid?
<MartijnVdS> no, on natty
<oimon> lucid seems to be missing from the repo :(
<MartijnVdS> maybe its mono is too old?
<oimon> karmic is there, seems to be an oversight
<oimon> #banshee are sleeping
<oimon> MartijnVdS: do you have files other than music/podcasts/audiobooks?
<MartijnVdS> Music only
<oimon> such as Seminars
<MartijnVdS> and a few videos
<MartijnVdS> it's slow enough as it is :P
<marsilainen> I believe I have found an issue in an ubuntu package (sympa on lucid), and now I'm thinking I should test debian packages to see if the issue also exists there... which debian tree is the best to test against? stable? testing? unstable?
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: try unstable.. if it's fixed there, ubuntu can borrow the fix
<marsilainen> ok, cool, thanks
<oimon> i have lots of non music files in my library, but no where to put them
<MartijnVdS> marsilainen: if it's not fixed there, Debian might want to fix it as well
<MartijnVdS> oimon: What kind?
<oimon>  Conferences/Seminars/Sermons etc
<MartijnVdS> oimon: not-quite-audiobooks?
<oimon> that's my point, i think audiobooks should be editable
<oimon> people are just as likely to have audio files from conferences
<MartijnVdS> I just play those in totem tbh
<MartijnVdS> It's not something you listen to hundreds of times
<oimon> if i'm working my way through 40 seminars, i need to keep them on a playlist and record the "played" count.. amarok used to do this well
<shauno> I just have a playlist that matches anything that has the genre set to 'spoken word'.  works well enough for me
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ooh, good idea
<oimon> shauno: can you exclude them from the music library?
<shauno> oimon: sort of  (I should point out this isn't banshee, but just food for thought)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: if you put them in the audiobooks part they're not in the music bit
<oimon> MartijnVdS: i need to phyiscally separate them though, right? Audiobooks folder not in mp3 folder
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I think you can just drag things from one to the other in banshee and it magically works
<MartijnVdS> oimon: you can set the "audiobooks" folder in the preferences
<shauno> I don't really see the problem with just letting it call them audiobooks :/
<shauno> if it's not tracking which have been played before, that'd be a pretty sensible thing to bring up as a feature request, it'd also be equally applicable to audiobooks
<oimon> i think it's a bug..audiobooks remains empty even after importing media
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no, you have to name them properly
<MartijnVdS> oimon: in the preferences, you see how it expects them
<MartijnVdS> oimon: put them in ~/Audiobooks/Author Von Lastname - Title of Book/Chapter 1.mp3
<MartijnVdS> and "Chapter 2.mp3"
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<MartijnVdS> (you can use the names of the chapters if you like)
<oimon> but they aren't books :(
<MartijnVdS> Pretend that they are :)
 * oimon tries
<brobostigon> weird alert tone i have choosen for k9-mail, it sounds like a drop of water hitting a surface of water.
<MartijnVdS> "Name von Conference - Seminars/Seminar A.mp3"
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<oimon> still fail
<MartijnVdS> oimon: how?
<MartijnVdS> they don't show up?
<oimon> Joe Bloggs - Seminar/test.mp3
<oimon> yep - nothing there
 * oimon checks bugzilla
<MartijnVdS> try "Reload collection" in the menu
<MartijnVdS> oimon: make sure it's in the ~/Audiobooks directory (check in the preferences if that's where it expects audio books)
<oimon> yep done that
<MartijnVdS> It'll also give you an example filename in that dialog
<oimon> i've read a 1 yr old web page that says you need to drag them in
<MartijnVdS> (some Harry Potter chaper 8-))
<oimon> MartijnVdS: are yours working?
<oimon> i'm on 1.9.4
<MartijnVdS> the one I have works
<oimon> since 1.9.4?
<MartijnVdS> 2.0.0
<oimon> i dragged one in and it works
<oimon> i think it's 1.9.4 fail
<oimon> i'll wait for them to fix the 2.0 builds for lucid
<oimon> thanks for the assistance
<shauno> I'm installing sarge because natty doesn't boot on my hardware.  how backwards is that :/
<directhex> sarge?
<shauno> ahh it's not sarge .. whatever stable is now
<brobostigon> squeese
<shauno> can't believe they've managed 3 releases while I wasn't watching.  last time I used debian, releases were glacial
<oimon> sarge-lenny-squeeze, which am i missing
<shauno> etch
<oimon> ah
<oimon> laptops and dressing gowns dont mix well...sounds like the fan is about to come off it's spindle
<HazRPG> hmm?
<brobostigon> good morning HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: sup dude
<brobostigon> HazRPG: nought much, justwatcing click, and you?
<HazRPG> just woke up ^^
 * brobostigon gets HazRPG a mug of coffee.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
 * daubers orders an OS map
<HazRPG> daubers: OS map?
<HazRPG> apparently I missed my ubuntu delivery :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :(
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ordnance survey.
<HazRPG> although apparently they shut at 2pm on a Saturday... but I can't go until 1:15pm apparently (wait 4hrs it says on the  bottom)
<daubers> HazRPG: Yup, one of those oldey fashiondey paper maps
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ordnance survey?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: daubers type of maphe orderd.
<HazRPG> ah
<daubers> http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/
<shauno> like google maps, but more battery-efficient
<HazRPG> "killing the rain forest!"
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> heh, I wonder if there's a map for the kindle xD
<daubers> HazRPG: I'd love to know how much rainforest is destroyed in the search for things like tungsten and indium
<HazRPG> Was it bigcalm that ordered the N3DS? I've noticed he hasn't said much since that released :P
<oimon> are there any games for it?
<HazRPG> oimon: Rayman 3D?
<HazRPG> Street Fighter 4: 3D Edition
<oimon> not sure if ur trolling me or not :P
<shauno> gah, that didn't work either.  installs, but doesn't boot
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> oimon: I just opened game.co.uk and quoted what I saw for 3DS on the home page :P
<HazRPG> heh that's bad, I would have thought a mario game would have come out on release of the thing
<HazRPG> seems not
<gord> nintendo rarely release new mario/zelda games with their consoles
<gord> takes too long to make them
<HazRPG> gord: Super Mario 64 came out on release :P
<gord> rarely but not never :)
<HazRPG> you'd think they would though, since the company that's going to know about their new console releases before the 3rd parties is obviously going to be nintendo
<HazRPG> I know Sega pretty much did
<HazRPG> always had a sonic game during release
<shauno> any ideas what'd stop ubuntu even getting off the boot menu?
 * HazRPG considers picking up his dreamcast controller over there <==
<gord> like i said, takes too long to make them, you can only start working on console games once you have it basically finished, so you have a choice, delay the console until your games are ready, or release early and start making money sooner
<HazRPG> I guess
<HazRPG> someone go pick my ubuntu hoody + tee for me :P
<gord> they should of maybe waited a few months for their main lineup to be ready, but i guess they don't want to be competing directly at launch with ngp
<shauno> if I boot from CD, pick install from the menu, the resolution changes but it doesn't leave the menu.  it just stops accepting keyboard interaction, and just sits there :/
<gord> ah, wearing my 0 ubuntu shirt today, must be laundry day
<HazRPG> shauno: weird
<HazRPG> shauno: this on your laptop?
<HazRPG> shauno: how much have you got to nit-pick in your bios?
<shauno> sort of.  this is using vmware using raw disk access
<shauno> there is no bios
<HazRPG> shauno: could just need something turned off there
<HazRPG> shauno: ...what? How?
<shauno> debian boots in the same configuration.  ubuntu just hangs on the menu :/
<HazRPG> shauno: how bout booting into the live environment and run the install that way?
<HazRPG> shauno: could just be a but in the "installer"
<shauno> same problem.  it doesn't leave the menu
<HazRPG> shauno: *waves a mint iso at you*
<shauno> guess I should burn another daily & go back to trying to beg them to see my cdrom, since I can't seem to install via vmware anymore :(
<HazRPG> can't you just stick the a loopback in your mac bootloader to the iso and boot it up that way?
<shauno> heh, I'm not writing efi drivers for this :)
<HazRPG> heh
<HazRPG> well I'm going to see what the fuss is with a Mint Debian 10
<HazRPG> heh, well apparently I goofed
<HazRPG> apparently I downloaded linux mint 10 gnome
<HazRPG> so the standard one...
<HazRPG> blah
 * HazRPG runs off to grab the debian version
<HazRPG> I'll test the actual Debian distro, see what that's like in the mean time
<HazRPG> never actually used Debian raw... this could be fun :)
<shauno> well, here goes
<HazRPG> cool well I broke LMG10
<HazRPG> rofl
<HazRPG> shauno: still can't believe your having issues with this in a VM
<HazRPG> I thought the problems were trying to install it locally
<HazRPG> ooo hang on a second
<HazRPG> Arabic isn't on the list of things you can install any more!
<HazRPG> ????
<HazRPG> I can't go around to my family that are in Egypt saying ubuntu is amazing and fantastic if its not going to support the language!
<gord> you mean you can't set the locale?
<gord> that seems like something thats broken
<HazRPG> on the liveCD you the option for booting it up in arabic isn't there, nor is it there for install
<directhex> HazRPG, check with -devel?
<gord> yeah thats a bug then
<gord> or maybe its moved?
<HazRPG> hmm, it has
<HazRPG> its no longer at the top
<HazRPG> and its actually written in arabic
<HazRPG> that'll be why I missed it
<gord> haha
<directhex> HazRPG, isn't that better?
<gord> :P
<HazRPG> directhex: yeah it is :P
<HazRPG> my brains not attuned to reading arabic
<phonex01> helo guys
<phonex01> hi HazPRG
<phonex01> how are you ?
<HazRPG> phonex01: hey dude, I'm alright how's you?
<directhex> argh, dealing with arabic in an LTR system is so weird
<phonex01> im fine alhmddleah
<shauno> it's still 'arabic' on mine, but in second place because 'amharic' has knocked it off the top-spot (alphabetically)
<HazRPG> phonex01: just testing out natty in a liveCD
<directhex> e.g. if i paste Ø£Ø¨Ø¬Ø¯ÙØ© on its own, my tex box becomes right-to-left
<phonex01> oh yah
<directhex> Ø£Ø¨Ø¬Ø¯ÙØ©now i'm hella confused
<directhex> o_O
<HazRPG> lol
<phonex01> hi direchex what is your problem ?
<HazRPG> directhex: he's not use to RTL
<phonex01> he is trying to change RTL ?
<HazRPG> also, I don't know what "abgadi" means
<phonex01> RTL > LTR ?
<phonex01> abgadi means the basic arabic letters
<directhex> HazRPG, a failed attempt to copy-paste from wikipedia. the copy-paste direction also changes over arabic text :(
<HazRPG> phonex01: ah
<phonex01> hi directhex
<directhex> my poor brain
<phonex01> are you using Firefox ?
<HazRPG> directhex: yeah it does, gotta remember the whole arabic OS is flipped to the other side
<directhex> HazRPG, my brain isn't cut out for this. i'm going back to bed
<HazRPG> directhex: lol
<phonex01> directhex you are arabic ?
<directhex> phonex01, nope, so i really don't care about it. i was just playing about
<directhex> phonex01, you missed the context from before you joined
<phonex01> you was playing ! thats good
<phonex01> i missed the context ?
<phonex01> ok you tell me what is the context ?
<phonex01> ok HazRPG im trying to connect my laptop into a huge LCD using S-Video
<phonex01> connections is right and ubuntu can see that monitor
<phonex01> but on the monitor "No signal"
<phonex01> do you have any idea about that ?
<HazRPG> phonex01: yeah he means the context of the conversation, I was saying I was testing natty and noticed arabic isn't on the top of the menu anymore
<phonex01> i understand that
<HazRPG> hmm, have you check the settings its trying to produce for that screen? Hz, resolution, etc
<HazRPG> checked*
<phonex01> ya ya i did
<HazRPG> hmm
<phonex01> hi i hate this hmmmmmmmm
<phonex01> hahahah
<HazRPG> installed copy of ubuntu, or liveCD?
<phonex01> copy
<phonex01> ubuntu 10.10
<HazRPG> nvidia?
<HazRPG> ATI?
<HazRPG> Intel?
<phonex01> ATI
<phonex01> drivers are fully installed
<HazRPG> using the proprietary drivers, or the open-sourced ones?
<phonex01> i downloaded it from ATI website
<phonex01> so its not the open-source
<HazRPG> that might be the issue...
<phonex01> why ?
<HazRPG> the ones on the download section of ATI might not have been tested with ubuntu
<phonex01> but everything is working good
<phonex01> even im using blender
<nucc1> is there some easy way of taming CPU fan speed?
<HazRPG> if you go, System -> Admin -> Additional Drivers, you'll see the drivers that have been tested with ubuntu
<phonex01> i can see it right now
<phonex01> ok i will install it
<phonex01> but if it does not work i will kill you hahhaha
<HazRPG> haha, no it'll work
<HazRPG> I'm not sure if it'll work for S-Video, but the main screen will at least work... and should hopefully narrow the problem down
<phonex01> ok it is downloading
<phonex01> hi nucc1
<phonex01> your fan have noisy sound ?
<HazRPG> nucc1: What's the problem exactly?
<phonex01> he is not here anymore
<nucc1> HazRPG, it's constantly running at full blast, unless i reduce my CPU's frequency to 33%
<HazRPG> nucc1: are you over clocking ?
<nucc1> HazRPG, nope.
<nucc1> it's a standard HP laptop, running ubuntu 10.10, and no other modifications.
<phonex01> is it HP Pavillon DV6 ?
<nucc1> no, HP Compaq 6710b
<HazRPG> nucc1: not sure on that one
<HazRPG> has it always done that with ubuntu?
<nucc1> yea, it always does.
<HazRPG> is it just ubuntu that does it?
<nucc1> yes, i don't recall windows vista doing it.
<nucc1> i think ubuntu's thresholds for fan speed are too high?
<nucc1> is there some tool i could use to reduce the speed?
<nucc1> i just reduced cpu frequency to 800mhz and the noise dropped down noticably
<gord> i think fan speed is normally controlled by the bios
<gord> based on how hot the cpu is
<phonex01> did you tried to check sensors settings ?
<nucc1> currently says 75 degrees.
<phonex01> /etc/sensors.conf ?
<nucc1> phonex01, erm, what needs to be done in that file?
<nucc1> gord in my bios, the only option related to the fan is "fan always on while on AC power"
<phonex01> you use ubuntu 10.10 ?
<nucc1> i disabled that.
<nucc1> phonex01, yes, 10.10
<phonex01> then go to /etc/sensors3.conf
<nucc1> yes, i saw it, what do i need to do inside?
<phonex01> wait a min
<HazRPG> nucc1: the BIOS says your CPU is 75à¥°C ??
<nucc1> HazRPG, the sensors.
<HazRPG> that doesn't sound healthy somehow
<nucc1> i'm using an applet in docky or is it awn?
<HazRPG> that'll be why ubuntu is making the fans go on full speed
<HazRPG> nucc1: how long has it been switched on?
<HazRPG> also, what do you do with it?
<nucc1> HazRPG, yea, but i have no idea why it's running so hot. i have the cpu freq pegged at the lowest setting.
<nucc1> i just rebooted it. it typically stays on all the time
<HazRPG> nucc1: right, I do the same usually on my HP laptop
<phonex01> i had that problem before with hp pavillion dv6
<phonex01> also with ubuntu
<HazRPG> phonex01: heh I've got a dv6 :P
<phonex01> i think i added something to sensors3.conf file
<HazRPG> nucc1: open up system monitor (System -> Admin -> System Monitor)
<phonex01> but i dont really remeber it
<nucc1> HazRPG, temp1: 75 temp2: 62 temp3: 55 temp4: 40, temp 5: 80
<HazRPG> and have a look to see what your processors are doing
<nucc1> haz yea, processors are well below 50%.
<nucc1> i've got a system monitor applet visible.
<phonex01> you problem with the sensors conf
<nucc1> estimates about 16%.
<HazRPG> nucc1: hmm, that system applet usually takes up a fair bit of resources to refresh it... I'd slow down the refresh rates for it
<nucc1> HazRPG, i set it to refresh in 5 second intervals.
<HazRPG> nucc1: so you've put 5000ms in that box, that's weird
<nucc1> HazRPG, yes.
<HazRPG> nucc1: what processor is it?
<nucc1> phonex01, my cpu is a core 2 duo, T7100
<nucc1> 1.80ghz
<nucc1> HazRPG, ^^
<HazRPG> did you say that you reduced the frequency to 800MHz?
<nucc1> yes
<nucc1> it's been there since we were talking
<HazRPG> seems that's the standard running rate, what was it  before you reduced it?
<nucc1> speed reduced, but is still noticeably loud
<nucc1> and temperature is still 75%
<nucc1> 75 degrees
<nucc1> room temperature should be about 18 degrees
<nucc1> HazRPG, normally, it's "ondemand"
<HazRPG> yeah, I'm trying to find what the regular operating temp. is for that processor
<nucc1> but that causes the fan to be on far loud, far too often
<HazRPG> I know mine (i7) is meant to idle at 55à¥°C
<nucc1> ok, temps down to 60 degrees now.
<HazRPG> nucc1: could be circulation that's causing it
<nucc1> HazRPG, like dust?
<HazRPG> is it on a desk or something?
<nucc1> yea, it's on a desk
<HazRPG> nucc1: that could be an issue too
<nucc1> opening it up shouldn't be too much of an issue.
<HazRPG> right ok found it
<HazRPG> idle temp. is 30-50à¥°C
<HazRPG> full utilisation is 60-70à¥°C
<HazRPG> safe operating temperature is 100à¥°C and catastrophic is 125à¥°C
<nucc1> i reckon i get it up to 90 sometimes
<HazRPG> so from what I can see unless its hitting over 100à¥°C its fine
<HazRPG> however as for your fans, I'd just live with it... ubuntu's just trying to stop it from burning itself out, if it really bothers you try and see if you can find some silent operating fans for it
<nucc1> HazRPG, hmmm, i won't mind quieter fans.
<HazRPG> nucc1: if you don't mind cracking the thing open, and try and see what size fans they are and see if you can find some to replace it with (quieter ones)
<HazRPG> if your not up to doing that, try and see if there's a fix-it shop that'll do it in your area
<nucc1> HazRPG, yea, i can open it up. i've got screw drivers and stuff.
<HazRPG> unless someone who's watching knows of a way to stop the fans blurting out so fast... that's all I can think of really
<nucc1> i found people complaining about the same issue on hp's forums http://forums11.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?admit=109447626+1302351754028+28353475&threadId=1134500
<HazRPG> nucc1: that wasn't what I meant, I meant if you were confident enough to take it apart and not break it - otherwise I wouldn't recommend doing so :P
<nucc1> HazRPG, lol. i am confident enough to take it apart. :)
<HazRPG> nucc1: that's good then :)
<nucc1> i've swapped hard drives and upgraded RAM before.
<nucc1> trivial, i suppose, but not much different.
<HazRPG> sometimes manufacturers usually put the cheapest fans in, which usually result in some really loud *insert swear word here*
<nucc1> HazRPG, except that this is supposed to be an expensive business grade machine.
<HazRPG> nucc1: so was mine :P
<nucc1> he he
<directhex> those guys are the worst for bad fans!
<HazRPG> it came with Vista Business on mine
<nucc1> hmmm.
<directhex> the best machines are made for gamers. anything else is a crap shoot
<HazRPG> nucc1: try and fine some faster quieter fans, and you'll be a happier bunny :)
<HazRPG> find*
<nucc1> yea.
<directhex> wife's pc overheated & cut out last night :(
<directhex> we were playing borderlands together, and bam!
<HazRPG> directhex: ouch
<nucc1> gotta power down then.
<nucc1> thanks guys.
<HazRPG> no problem
<directhex> HazRPG, took it to bits, cleaned the heatsink, reapplied some new thermal paste, i THINK it's much better
<HazRPG> blah gone lol
<directhex> need a good load test for it...
<HazRPG> directhex: run a Pi calculator on it :D
<HazRPG> that's usually the best way to test its capacity
<directhex> HazRPG, i need to stress the GPU also, as the case is EXTREMELY poor for gpu airflow
<HazRPG> nothing like a recurring equation to test out the operation of a machine ;)
<HazRPG> directhex: most usually are :(
<HazRPG> directhex: also, borderlands ftw!!!
<directhex> oh! i can run a borderlands benchmark...
<HazRPG> I enjoy beating down low level scags when I'm bored :P
<HazRPG> oh shoot!
<HazRPG> delivery!
<HazRPG> closes in like half hr!
<HazRPG> argh!
<HazRPG> run run run!
<HazRPG> brb!
<directhex> 7200 seconds of benchmarking should do it
<directhex> nope, doesn't work that way
<directhex> sod it, installing crysis
<shauno> no idea why I'm even bothering to try 10.10.  rewritables rock :o)
<AlanBell> 49
<HazRPG> back
<HazRPG> shauno: lol then why are you?
<shauno> nowt else to do today
<HazRPG> shauno: there's a point, try installing 10.10, then try and upgrade to natty!
<shauno> it failed on the same error
<HazRPG> oh
<HazRPG> random!
 * HazRPG goes to try on his new 'buntu hoody
<shauno> not really.  technically it's good news, means no regression.  otherwise pretty much expected
<HazRPG> technical term: apple hates ubuntu :P
<gord> only because we stole their lynx trademark ;)
<shauno> I think it's just not supporting a brand-new chipset.  there's nothing apple-specific there
<HazRPG> okay... well slightly bigger than I thought... but not overly massive, so is pleased :)
<HazRPG> shauno: its not unknown of companies to try and lock out other OS's via a BIOS "feature" though
<shauno> how many times do I have to say there is no bios :p
<HazRPG> I recall one of my old laptops would point blank REFUSE linux as an O/S unless you flashed the BIOS
<shauno> macs are basically PCs devoid of all legacy hardware
<HazRPG> it'll have one somewhere :P
<shauno> no, it doesn't :p
<shauno> it has efi.  pcbios is legacy cruft from the 80s.
<daubers> shame they've introduced this thunderbolt thing really
<shauno> why a shame?  I can't wait until I can pick up a hdd enclosure for it :)
<HazRPG> thunderbolt?
<daubers> shauno: expanding the PCI-E bus off the board and mixing the socket with a graphics port doesn't seem a good idea to me
<daubers> shauno: also, your drive will still be the bottleneck :)
<daubers> as it would be with USB3
<shauno> exactly.  I want the drive to be the bottleneck.  it means I'll see speed increases with raid.  if the bus is the bottleneck, you're screwed
<HazRPG> shauno: just looking here, and EFI ceased development for UEFI in 2005
<HazRPG> shauno: so your more likely to have an UEFI than an EFI ;)
<daubers> shauno: So why not just use USB3? Then the drive is _still_ the bottleneck
<shauno> because usb is, and always has been a horrible protocol for transfer
<daubers> USB3 is much nicer on that side (not a burst protocal anymore)
<daubers> shauno: Also, you have to remember with thunderbolt that it was originally designed as an optical interconnect, and has now been changed to be copper
<shauno> it still does almost all it's work on the cpu :/
<daubers> shauno: So does thunderbolt.
<shauno> optical is still in the spec.  copper just got it out the door faster
<daubers> thunderbolt is literally a pci-e bus expansion
<daubers> it takes 4 pci-e lanes from the (north/south)bridge
<daubers> USB takes it's lanes from one of those too
<shauno> so why does usb get it so horribly wrong?
<daubers> USB was originally a burst protocal. It send data in bursts of activity. USB3 has changed that
<HazRPG> I was going to say USB3 has been radically changed, but daubers has beat me to it again ^^
<daubers> thunderbolt will probably be the new firewire :)
<shauno> that works for me.  twice as fast for anyone who cares enough about fast to use it.
<daubers> shauno: Problem is, if Apple/intel start putting this on all their boards, it means you lose 4 PCI-E lanes from your expansion possibilities
<shauno> (well, 3 times as fast in this case, since usb3 is only about 3.2Mbps after overhead)
<shauno> it's a laptop.  exposing 4 pci-e lanes _is_ my expansion possibilities
<daubers> I've seen people with Mac Pro's with overloaded PCI-E busses who will suffer more in these scenarios
<shauno> ugh, 3.2Gbps
<daubers> Other problem is that Apple have shot themselves in the foot by mixing it with the displayport port. Lots of Video people I've spoken too are a bit miffed that they can't edit with a cinema display and their new thunderbolt storage at the same time
<HazRPG> shauno: I wonder why you can't get it going, seems its been tested on Pro 8,1 dude: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro8-1/Natty
<shauno> 8,1 and 8.2 are entirely different machines
<shauno> and they can.  plug the monitor into the daisy-chain socket in the storage, and keep on truckin
<daubers> shauno: Yep, straight into bus contention :) Had a couple of complaints about that already
<daubers> Massive display overhead + massive amounts of storage overhead in use == issuesville
<shauno> there shouldn't be any contention.  the monitor's not on the same pins
<daubers> No, but the cables not shielded that well
<shauno> then get a cable that is?
<shauno> I'd be curious what hardware they're seeing this with
<daubers> No-one makes one that is and the display port one on the cinema displays hasn't been updated to do so yet
<daubers> It also depends on the quality of the implimentation on the thing you're passing through
<shauno> given that no-one's actually selling tb storage controllers yet, they sound like pretty much fictional problems
<daubers> shauno: You can get them from lacie
<daubers> shauno: if you ask them nicely anyway
 * fujisan is watching the outer limits
<fujisan> im in the twilight zone :o
<shauno> http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10549
<shauno> the 'coming summer 2011 / notify me when it arrives' ones?
<daubers> Yup. If you're an editing house (like I deal with) and have a good supplier, you can get one
<HazRPG> oh, so thunderbolt is just firewire++
<daubers> HazRPG: Think of it as external PCI-E
<HazRPG> does sound dodgy
<shauno> HazRPG: http://www.intel.com/technology/io/thunderbolt/
<HazRPG> if I wanted anything hard drive related, I'd use a PCI-E card
<daubers> If it was still optical and didn't have the stupid passthrough/switching rubbish, it would be alright really.
<fujisan> hi there islanders
<shauno> allo flatlander
<fujisan> lol
<fujisan> actually im half flatland half islander :<
<HazRPG> fujisan: one foot on flatland and one foot on island style :P?
<fujisan> i dunno
<fujisan> i need to get some new albums for yardwork :<
<HazRPG> natty hates me T_T
<fujisan> who is natty?
<shauno> natty hates everyone :/
<fujisan> nathan?
<MartijnVdS> fujisan: no, Natty Narwhal
<HazRPG> "NoficicationAreaAppletFactory::NotificationArea" had a problem loading apparently
<fujisan> i pied my pants during summer camp :<
<fujisan> twice :(
<fujisan> painful memories
<shauno> fujisan: natty's the next ubuntu release, end of this month sometime
<fujisan> and my roommate was named nathan
<fujisan> he parents where from the UK
<fujisan> his*
<fujisan> oh really
<fujisan> poor nathan slept in the bunk below me :<
<HazRPG> hmm how do I make a bug report for this?
<shauno> well, now we know why natty hates people :p
<fujisan> :P
<fujisan> you know what scares me ...
<fujisan> :<
<HazRPG> why has ubuntu never thought to make an applet on their bars for easy reporting of bugs :/
<shauno> optical's still on the spec for thunderbolt.  I'm not ready to shoot it down based on the first implementation of it alone.
<fujisan> in life you can fall from the top and the bottom :<
<HazRPG> like other beta software usually does
<HazRPG> fujisan: heh
<fujisan> murphy's law
<shauno> HazRPG: that wouldn't be a bad idea actually.  give it a pointer like xkill's, so you just click bug, click the window, and let it figure out who the owner is
<HazRPG> its Sod's law :)
<HazRPG> shauno: exactly!
<fujisan> is gnome3 any good btw?
<HazRPG> fujisan: considering ubuntu isn't implementing it... *shrug*
<shauno> *hasn't
<fujisan> shauno you run ubuntu on the Mac btw or on some generic x86 hw?
<HazRPG> fujisan: brobostigon uses it, and he likes it :)
<shauno> fujisan: atm, on nothing, because it won't boot on my new mac :)
<fujisan> wow really?
<fujisan> why not?
<HazRPG> something to do with EFI I would assume
<shauno> no idea.  still working on it.  apparently it works fine for other people :/
<fujisan> there is even an Aros version for Intel Macs now
<fujisan> i haven't tried it yet though
<HazRPG> shauno: it does?
<HazRPG> shauno: oh that link I sent?
<shauno> based on the wiki & forum threads, it seems to work for others
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm you been trying the i386 builds?
<shauno> btw, gnome3 is coming, they're just not going to be using gnome-shell in the default configuration
<shauno> why would I want to do that ?
<HazRPG> shauno: oh so your not, I had a feeling you were for some reason :S
 * HazRPG recalls you saying something about i386 supporting 32GB RAM
<fujisan> ye gnome is superior to kde in simplicity
<HazRPG> or was it 64GB
<shauno> 64, and it should (with PAE)
<HazRPG> might be worth seeing if that helps?
<shauno> PAE should let it address .. 40-something (48?) bits
<HazRPG> would be a silly move to have it only working on 32-bit, but at least it would narrow it down
<shauno> guess it wouldn't be the stupidest thing I've tried
<HazRPG> :p
<shauno> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/   I've been sticking to 64 because the "This image is adjusted to work properly on Mac systems." is only built for 64
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> maybe said adjustments is what's screwing it over :P?
<fujisan> :<
<fujisan> kde is german right?
<shauno> the beta1 & 10.10 builds had the same errors and weren't (and didn't claim to be) mac-specific
<fujisan> i have 10.10
<fujisan> i dont trust windows or os x with my online banking :<
<brobostigon> osx is atleast unix, kinda.
<brobostigon> fujisan: kde - k desktop environment
<directhex> PAE is a hack. never think of it as more than a hack
<marsilainen> probably the choice of OS is less important for accessing online banking than choice of browser isn't it?
<popey> the choice of connection is probably more important
<marsilainen> agree
<popey> i wouldn't do my online banking whilst at a blackhat conf for example :)
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> yes.
<marsilainen> well, I wouldn't turn my machine there :)
<marsilainen> *turn on
<popey> yeah, I would be worried about that too
<shauno> I find browser's the least interesting bit now.  flash comes higher up the list for me
<popey> not certain I wouldn't leak something
<AlanBell> I would do a fresh install for a risky conference, and nuke it after
<marsilainen> your bank uses flash?
<AlanBell> it is the only way to be sure
<popey> guess you could physically remove all network cards, or disable in bios for the conf
<popey> renders the machine a bit less useful, but you could at least take notes etc
<popey> and code :)
<marsilainen> suggest remove bluetooth too
<shauno> marsilainen: I believe flash is currently among the leading attack vectors.  I'm not so worried about what I receive visiting my bank's website, as what's already on my machine when I do
<HazRPG> AlanBell: same, although this is why I have my netbook
<HazRPG> AlanBell: it doesn't have anything other than a standard install on it
<brobostigon> and there probebly isnt a foolproof totally unbreakable way, of locking things done either,
<shauno> alrighty, yet another reboot to see if i386 is any different
<brobostigon> things down*
<HazRPG> security is a myth, we only have preventative methods :)
<HazRPG> shauno: \o/
<brobostigon> openbsd with their auditing, is probebly the cloest you will get, i suspect.
<kaushal> popey: hi
<kaushal> just to update it did not work yesterday
<kaushal> so i have to reinstall the OS
<popey> i dont know what you did yesterday
<popey> I wasnt involved in that, sorry.
<shauno> yarp, same issue on i386
<kaushal> popey: np
<kaushal> Thanks
<shauno> oh well, attached that to the bug just incase the different arch is interesting at all
<kaushal> Also i would like to know is there a way to install ubuntu or windows via pxe as a selection by the end user ?
<kaushal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallMultiDistro
<kaushal> For example if a user wants to install windows by choice
<kaushal> or ubuntu by choice
 * brobostigon shakes his fist atthe washing machine, for not telling me, i had it set on the wrong program. :(
<AlanBell> does windows install over pxe?
<kaushal> AlanBell: yes
<kaushal> http://unattended.sourceforge.net/
<HazRPG> apparently I'm not allowed to use "Ask Ubuntu" ... wtf.....
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: You're not n00b enough :P
<popey> HazRPG: hmm?
 * kaushal appreciates folks here about their deep technical knowledge
<kaushal> I love to be here
<HazRPG> popey: I ticked the "notify" box and it keeps throwing me because of it
<popey> how odd
<HazRPG> hmm, seems if I don't tick it, it works :/
<popey> :)
<popey> tip: don't tick it
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> can't be an e-mail verification problem
<HazRPG> I already did that when I made the account
<HazRPG> ta da: http://askubuntu.com/questions/34226/why-isnt-there-a-daily-alpha-beta-bug-report-applet-widget
<HazRPG> although in hindsight, this would probably been better on the brainstorm site
<popey> why would you want to have a button on the toolbar?
<popey> given each app has a menu option "Help -> Report a bug" directly in the app that you have the issue with?
<HazRPG> as described, you click it, click the application that's being silly, and *boomf* insta reporting
<popey> (and if it doesn't have "Help -> Report a bug" then thats arguably a bug in that app)
<popey> thats what report a bug does
<popey> but embedded in the apps rather than being a separate thing
<HazRPG> I know, but what if you can't click inside the application?
<popey> such as?
<shauno> I don't think it'd be silly to have something in the tray on betas.  like the feedback widget being a lot more prominent in firefox betas
<HazRPG> shauno: that was where I was getting at...
<HazRPG> something like that
<popey> I'm not saying its silly, I just struggle to see the value over and above what we already have
<HazRPG> microsoft have started doing it in their betas (both software and OS)
<HazRPG> popey: as a thing, people don't know that the "report bug" in the about menu exist
<kaushal> AlanBell: is that doable ?
<AlanBell> it is "Help -> Report a Problem . . ." rather than report a bug, to be pedantic
<HazRPG> :P
<popey> ok, sorry, I'm on my work windows laptop right now
<popey> so its an education problem
<popey> there should be a slide in the installer that tells you about it :)
<popey> or in the ubuntu-tour
<AlanBell> kaushal: no idea, I was just a bit surprised at Windows doing pxe installs
<shauno> do people running betas actually 'take the tour' ?
<HazRPG> popey: would having an ubuntu-tour be a bad thing ? Obviously one that's not as annoying as windows...
 * popey shrugs
<popey> there's a team working on it
<HazRPG> \o/
<AlanBell> HazRPG: I did suggest adding a talking paperclip to the desktop at a UDS session
<popey> nah, it needs to be a piece of wire you bend into a paperclip yourself
<HazRPG> still think a "feedback" or "bug report" widget/applet should exist though
<popey> this is linux!
<popey> HazRPG: make one? :)
<HazRPG> would get more people reporting them
<kaushal> AlanBell: ok
<kaushal> popey: How do i proceed further ?
<popey> kaushal: you want to restore grub on your hard disk?
<HazRPG> popey: wouldn't be any point, if the people who package the distros together don't think its an issue
<kaushal> popey: nope
<popey> i honestly have no idea what you want to do, sorry
<kaushal> I was talking about MultiOS installation
<popey> ah
<popey> no idea
<popey> well, i have an _idea_
<kaushal> sure
<popey> but I would end up googling
<kaushal> ah ok
<kaushal> I found one
<kaushal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PXEInstallMultiDistro
<shauno> HazRPG: go for it.  find out how xkill figures out what window you just clicked on.  find a nice slim example of however they're sticking stuff in the $tray these days, light some candles and mate the two
<popey> could call out to apt/dpkg to find out what package it's in and then just trigger apport-gtk
 * AlanBell suggests not getting caught up in the war on systray
<popey> i see how shauno avoided it nicely
<shauno> hopefully there's a way to query lsb_release to find out if you're on a pre-release, so it can magically tidy itself up when they hit release-day
<HazRPG> hmm, well my idea has been voted twice... so there's interest :P
<shauno> s/idea/question.  remember that's not brainstorm.  good question and good idea may not always be the same thing
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> tempted to revise it and post it up on brainstorm (or see if one exists first)
<shauno> thinking about it, I'm not sure xkill actually knows what program you pointed it at.  It's just the only example of the "click on another app's window to return info" mechanic that springs to mind
<shauno> I think xkill just breaks the link between the window and X so the app thinks X has been killed
<shauno> but there has to be a way to find out who owns a given window
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] I had to go out in the world and become strong - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/09/i-had-to-go-out-in-the-world-and-become-strong/
<shauno> fedora's gnome3 livecd died on the same problem too :(
<shauno> except their rescue shell doesn't have halt/reboot/shutdown *scratches head*
<HazRPG> weird
<HazRPG> shauno: I'm pretty sure xkill, kills by its process ID
<shauno> it did have 'less' tho, which isn't on ubuntu's initrd.  that was handy
<shauno> I'm not sure it does, because I've used it to 'kill' zombies before.  the process still doesn't die, but it gets kicked off of X atleast
<MartijnVdS> Best way to kill zombies is to kill their parents
<MartijnVdS> Zombie will get reparented to init, which reaps zombies for a living :)
<shauno> hm, it just calls XKillClient()  *wanders off to get xlib*
<MartijnVdS> probably server-side
<shauno> "Xlib provides a function to cause the connection to a client to be closed and its resources to be destroyed."
<shauno> I think actually killing the pid would be an issue because it can't assume the process is on the same machine as the server
<shauno> but the stuff to identify a resource from a click seems fairly straight-forward.  just no idea how to map a resource to it's owner :)
<shauno> it's a shame xkill doesn't have a "dry run" option that'd tell you what it would do, but doesn't actually do it.  otherwise you could just call it directly from a script
<HazRPG> heh yeah
<shauno> (altho xkill's cursor wouldn't be the friendliest thing to inherit)
<shauno> not sure what else to try to get a distro booting on this thing :(
<fujisan> How does Ubuntu compare to the 1960s San Francisco ?
<HazRPG> if I was more proficient with my C++ coding, I would actually consider coding a proof of concept
<shauno> HazRPG: writing things is how you get more proficient :)  give it a shot.  if it comes out horrible, there's no onus to show anyone how bad it was :p
<fujisan> is my question to cosmic for this channel?
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, I actually had to lookup onus!
<shauno> fujisan: most likely.  personally, I never saw 1960s SF :p
<fujisan> me neither i just like the music
<shauno> HazRPG: obligation is just awkward to type
<HazRPG> shauno: if the google talks are anything to go by, surely showing how monumentally bad your code is, is better than not showing at all
<shauno> I've no idea.  I don't tend to share anything with anyone because it's all incredibly horrible
<fujisan> "Nasty French planet, filled with shifty, back-stabbing, croissant-eating nitwits..." - Professor Arturo
<fujisan> you guys appreciate quotes like that in here?
<HazRPG> shauno: you don't learn how to be good/right until you've shown what you've got :P
<shauno> I can't code worth bleep.  I mush together whatever I can find that roughly matches what I was trying to do  (which is why my thought process jumped straight to finding someone to copy)
<HazRPG> how most people work :P
<HazRPG> why recreate something that's already out there
<HazRPG> (unless its horribly bad to begin with... not looking at unity honest...)
 * daubers has a very niche project that he intends to open source once it's functionally complete
<shauno> I've no idea how they stick things in the $tray anymore, but if it's at all documented, I'd expect to find a nice example.  how to pick a window -> find a good example to copy.  mapping a pid to a process to a package is easy :)
<HazRPG> daubers: that was another thing that was at the google conf. talks :P, better to release early and show what your doing then to wait until its finished and then show to the world :P
<shauno> inb4wave
<daubers> HazRPG: Yup :) Bit I'd prefer it actually did something, even if it does so badly, when i do release it
<HazRPG> shauno: wave?
<shauno> HazRPG: o/
<daubers> HazRPG: Having said that, you can get to the code now.... it's just not publicisied :)
<HazRPG> daubers: ah
<HazRPG> daubers: then that's ok then (I think :P)
<daubers> I've also got a second project that's just designed and kinda-ish prototyped that I'll do the same with
 * shauno goes back to trying to convince vmware to do a physical install
<daubers> intend to let the public have that at Oggcamp
<HazRPG> daubers: awesome :)
<HazRPG> I intend to do a catch'em all game at some point
<HazRPG> just because I like the current commercial offerings, but think they're missing out on a few cool features
<shauno> actually .. I might see if I can find a firewire cable so I can borrow my wife's cdrom
<HazRPG> shauno: thought your new one has a cdrom drive
<shauno> that way it'd appear on a different controller
<shauno> HazRPG: so did I, but ubuntu doesn't :p
<HazRPG> shauno: heh
<shauno> but if I can find a cable for 400-800, I can use hers, so the drive will be on the fw controller instead of the sata controller
<shauno> quick check to make sure she left her laptop at home before I go wandering off to maplins
<shauno> oh, btw .. what does the keyboard = person icon mean?
<MartijnVdS> "Touch any key now fo accessibility mode"
<shauno> ahh
<shauno> and here I've been hitting keys just to make it go away
<shauno> osx just has a key combo you use to turn voiceover on or off, at any time (including the installer).  you don't have to warn it ahead of time
<shauno> I'm not sure which is more discoverable, given how vague that icon is :/
<shauno> (also discovered voiceover's on the iphone too.  I never imagined blind people would use a touch-screen phone, but I've heard glowing feedback)
<shauno> http://behindthecurtain.us/2010/06/12/my-first-week-with-the-iphone/   that's the one. really interesting read on how much difference it can make when accessibility actually works
<shauno> (and the guy's a gnome user, it's not just default fanboy rant :p  )
<shauno> forgot my shell was still on gmt :/  that ruins the maplin idea, it takes me a while to get there
<AlanBell> shauno: there is a bug about that icon
<shauno> oh, cool
<HazRPG> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/27570/
<shauno> I didn't think to check bts to find out what an icon meant  hehe
<HazRPG> and lets see what happens :)
<AlanBell> bug 749642
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 749642 in casper (Ubuntu) "no audio cue to assist getting to menu for accessibility options" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749642
<AlanBell> the icon is cryptic enough for people who don't know the gnome-a11y project logo
<HazRPG> shauno: heh yeah I made a point of updating my vps for that reason :P
<shauno> I tend to leave mine on gmt
<shauno> this way I completely trust log timestamps to be UTC, which is more important than having irssi show the right time in the corner
<daubers> Smells like araldite in this room nboe
<daubers> now even
<marsilainen> ok, sympa is beginning to annoy me already...
<marsilainen> anyone got any other suggestions for a mailing-list manager which easily supports a virtual domain environment?
<marsilainen> ie. I need to support lists at multiple domains on one box
<marsilainen> sympa looks to fit the bill, but the config of it seems to be all messed up by default on lucid at least
<shauno> sigh.  installing via vmware doesn't work because install doesn't let me decide what device to install grub on
<shauno> it's pretty.  it's just less functional.
<shauno> if I stick the iso on another volume, is there any way to tell either isolinux, or the boot process itself to use that?
<screen-x> X3N: have added rss info to planet wiki page :)
<shauno> anyone at all familiar with the layout of the install CDs?  I'm getting "unable to find main/debian-installer/binary-amd64/Packages in /cdrom/dists/natty/Release"
<shauno> find /cdrom -name debian-installer finds nothing
<shauno> question: are the dailies an elaborate april fool's joke?
<gord> shauno, dailys are not tested, why are you using dailys?
<gord> we take a week or so to prepare and test release versions to make sure they work, dailys are just "grab whatever is current and let a build script do the rest"
<shauno> because beta1 didn't support my hardware, so I went forward hoping newer may
<daftykins> i tried booting beta1 in a VM, i got no unity
<daftykins> so i'm holding off for now ;)
<penguin42> daftykins: Unless you can get 3d drivers in your VM that's what i would expect
<daftykins> actually vmware workstation supports very basic GL acceleration
<directhex> usually i'd have upgraded to +1 by now
<shauno> AlanBell was saying he's had some success with the latest vbox builds, as long as you use the guest additions from the repo, instead of the image offered from the vbox UI
<directhex> but unity scares me
<gord> daftykins, it does, but you have to install the drivers if you didn't know
<daftykins> er, no
<daftykins> never usually does
<daftykins> as it already has the driver allowing me to not need the keypress to "drag out" of the VM
<gord> it does
<gord> you have to install the guest addons inside of ubuntu
<gord> until virtualbox proposes xorg drivers for themselves (and i don't think xorg would take them) you are going to need to provide them yourself
<popey> he said vmware not virtualbox
<daftykins> ^
<marsilainen> ^
<daftykins> glad someones awake ;)
<gord> oh, vmware. right, forgot that even existed
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> If you use it without a valid license, does it become vmwarez?
<Myrtti> a martian, eh
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: no, not a Martian :)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ("it's called Dutch" :P)
<shauno> \o/  I have a functional install!
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<shauno> created a vfat patition, put the iso on there, and mounted it to /cdrom when it failed to find the physical one
<shauno> it ends up whining about having mounted partitions on sda, but if you keep kicking it it'll shut up and get on with it
<shauno> no idea how I manged to install only CLI, but I'll take it
<shauno> (it hasn't even got ssh, so I've a feeling I missed something)
<shauno> hah, win, the trackpad works on this one
<HazRPG> on natty?
<HazRPG> split window irssi ftw \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: umm?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: you know, slit screened irssi :)
<HazRPG> i now can see 3 channels at once! \o/
<brobostigon> HazRPG: so you have multiple irssi windows visible atthe same time?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: how?
<HazRPG> window show #, window hide #
<HazRPG> number is the number of that window
<HazRPG> to get the number just type /window
<brobostigon> interesting.
<HazRPG> obv /window show #, etc
<HazRPG> and to make them stick so that you can just use ALT+UP and ALT+DOWN
<brobostigon> let me try, interesting.
<HazRPG> type /window stick
<HazRPG> and to unstick it, /window stick off
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> need more help just do /help window
<HazRPG> or http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssisplit
<HazRPG> or other sites and videos
<HazRPG> uber win! \o/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: another blog post in the making? :)
<HazRPG> possible :D
<brobostigon> interesting HazRPG
<shauno> okay, in nm I can add/edit/delete a wireless connection
<shauno> how do I actualy .. turn it on ?
<HazRPG> i'll prob post it up later tonight once i've had more of a play with it in a VM
<HazRPG> shauno: drivers installed? Check with the "additonal drivers" thing
<brobostigon> lol, i canstill alt+right-left arrow in eachpane.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: of course :)
<shauno> HazRPG: no idea.  I can't see how I actually make it connect, so I don't know if it fails yet
<HazRPG> brobostigon: if it won't let you, its because it sticky, just do /window stick off
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hmm, this is getting interesting.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: if you make a window sticky, it stops you from moving left or right, but up and down is still an option it seems
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it is clashing with one of myplugins though,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: really?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: which one?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: trackbar.pl
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, thats probably because it uses /window too
<HazRPG> there's also /window grow # and /widnow shrink # (the # is a number of lines you want it to grow/shrink)
<shauno> hm.  this isn't very pretty at all
<HazRPG>  /window shrink* even
<HazRPG> :(
<brobostigon> this is getting weird, with the channelsi am in,
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> I've got status, 2 /msg people up, and also #ubuntu-uk in mine so far
<HazRPG> don't think the brain can handle more than 4 though
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have twlve channels  here, an a pm.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh I meant I have 1 channel, 2 pm's and a status bar all shown at once :)
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/notpretty.jpg
<HazRPG> brobostigon: also, if you stick more than one for a given window, you can ALT+LEFT/RIGHT to them too, hmm interesting
<brobostigon> HazRPG: mine will probebly confuse no end aswell.
<HazRPG> I could have IM's at the top, and channels on the bottom, that would make more sense actually
<MartijnVdS> alt+* sometimes breaks over remote links
<HazRPG> like I said, I'll be making a blog about it with different ways I've come up
<HazRPG> with
<shauno> you can use escape instead.  escape,1 (inorder, not together) will do it
<HazRPG> and some screens-caps to show it in action :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: just tell us when we need to smile for the picture :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: of course :P
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yeah, :)
<HazRPG> anyways, like I said, I is late... need to dash!
<brobostigon> bye HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> prob do the blog screens-caps when you guys are on :)
<HazRPG> later guys :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: last question, can i left right on either pane?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: yeah
<brobostigon> HazRPG: how?
<HazRPG> as long as you stick the ones you want on that pane
<HazRPG> i.e.
<HazRPG> if your on the top one
<HazRPG>  /window stick
<brobostigon> ok.
<HazRPG> then ALT+# of the other one you want to stick to that pane, then do /window stick
<HazRPG> then those two will be attached to that pane
<brobostigon> HazRPG: this will revert on irssi restartunless i /save ?
<HazRPG> I think it will when you /save :)
<brobostigon> ok, :)
<HazRPG> but like I said, I will be doing testing in a VM so that I check those things out :)
<HazRPG> send me a PM of anything you'd like me to play around with and I will :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, thank you, interesting,
<brobostigon> HazRPG: will do, :)
<HazRPG> catch ya all later \o
<brobostigon> bye HazRPG :)
<brobostigon> o/
 * MartijnVdS checks to see if there's something on TV
 * shauno is watching The Incredible Exploding Xorg  ;)
<MartijnVdS> bewm?
<shauno> the plotline's a bit weak, but the visuals are awesome
<MartijnVdS> snow crash?
<shauno> naw, more colours that that :)  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/notpretty.jpg
<MartijnVdS> wow
<MartijnVdS> which driver is that?
<shauno> if anyone asks that's how you get unity on the right :p
<shauno> whatever it put on for ati-restricted
<MartijnVdS> fglrx.. always had trouble with that
<shauno> it mostly works, just can't do ctrl+alt+f1 to get a terminal
<shauno> well, you can.  but it won't be pretty when you switch back
<shauno> erm.  X doesn't come back after a reboot
<MartijnVdS> excellent
 * shauno plays guess the IP to see if it's alive at all
<shauno> bah.  it hasn't requested dhcp since reboot.  because ofc nm isn't going to bring the interface up until it's logged into gnome
<shauno> this is awesome.  if you type "on", it gives you Ã¶n"
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi  im new to ubuntu....
<MartijnVdS> Ån
<MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: welcome :)
<KINGOFSWORDS> how do i connect to rizon server plz?
<KINGOFSWORDS> thx martin
<MartijnVdS> What is "rizon server"?
<KINGOFSWORDS> erm
<MartijnVdS> PaulW2U: hm? CTCP?
<MattJ> shauno: Go go gadget compose key!
<shauno> MattJ: I don't want shift to be my compose key :(
<KINGOFSWORDS> rizon network i mean sorry
<KINGOFSWORDS> im on xchat....used to using mirc
<willy1978> KINGOFSWORDS: a rizon is an irc network you'd just use /connect servername portnumber
<willy1978> first occurrence of a == if
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok thank u wily
<KINGOFSWORDS> also...ive just installed ubuntu 10.04...and cant use envy. how do i find the best graphics driver ffor my pc?
<MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: the best driver is installed by default.
<KINGOFSWORDS> really?
<MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: only install a different driver if you need features the default driver doesn't supply
<MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: yes, really.
<willy1978> trust me... my brother is a doctor... ;)
<KINGOFSWORDS> i had ver9.1 installed the other day and the nvidia interface was better on that and had no problems using compiz
<MartijnVdS> willy1978: not _the_ doctor, right?
 * willy1978 is not a timelord...
<MartijnVdS> KINGOFSWORDS: nvidia is a bit strange.
<KINGOFSWORDS> yeh got that right
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok so how do i see the users list in xchat?
<KINGOFSWORDS> mirc normally displays them on the right
<willy1977> KINGOFSWORDS: click view at the top then tick user list should show on the right ;)
<shauno> they don't put any audio in the default install so you can make sure your audio is working?
<KINGOFSWORDS> nah just view>side bar
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Hassan Williamson] New Idea For Ubuntu! - http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/04/09/new-idea-for-ubuntu/
<willy1977> :/ my version of xchat shows them on the right by default but I can turn them on/off with that menu option... ?
<willy1977> ver = 2.8.8 btw
<KINGOFSWORDS> oh i see it now...discussions>users
<KINGOFSWORDS> maybe its my version is different
<willy1977> think it must be ...
<willy1977> or different window layout at least.
<shauno> who's idea was it to stick an ubuntu-one advert in every single folder?
<KINGOFSWORDS> anyway im off 2 rizon...thx for all your help guys
<KINGOFSWORDS> bye
<KINGOFSWORDS> or maybe not...
<shauno> hm.  if you visit the ubunt one store in banshee, it tells you it needs to install mp3 support.  so you do.  then next time you open the store, it tells you you need mp3 support ..
<KINGOFSWORDS> do i type connect irc.rizon.net 6667
<willy1977> KINGOFSWORDS: you will need to type /connect irc.rizon.net 6667
<MattJ> KINGOFSWORDS: I think you might have installed xchat-gnome rather than plain xchat
<MattJ> On mine at least go to the 'XChat' menu and choose 'Network list', then the 'Add' button
<KINGOFSWORDS> yeh sorry xchat gnome
<MattJ> Then you can connect to it at startup automatically
<MattJ> Yeah, I didn't like xchat-gnome, I like to see the user list :)
<MattJ> I can't remember the other differences
<KINGOFSWORDS> i thought gnome one was best ...does other have gui
<KINGOFSWORDS>  /connect irc.rizon.net 6667
<KINGOFSWORDS> doesnt work
<shauno> well, that was well worth 9 hours work to install
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi im in nongnome xchat now
<KINGOFSWORDS> still cant gett to rizon thou...added new server and wont connect
<willy1977> KINGOFSWORDS: I just picked rizon from the existing list and that connected? are there differences between the one you added and the one that was installed?
<KINGOFSWORDS> i cant find it in my list
<KINGOFSWORDS> theres only rizenet
<KINGOFSWORDS> why isnt my compiz working
<KINGOFSWORDS> hello
<KINGOFSWORDS> why is everything so fucking hard in linux
<popey> it is?
<directhex> xchat is cross-platform, so it can be hard on windows too if you like
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: what version of Ubuntu are you running?
<directhex> popey, lucid
<popey> ah
<popey> thanks directhex
<KINGOFSWORDS> well it i cant get it to work then it is
<popey> I sometimes can't get my lawnmower working
<popey> I find oiling it helps
<popey> have you tried that?
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, what, precisely, is the error you get?
<shauno> I'd agree with this sentiment.  I had to add a ppa to be able to right-click.  It's easy to take the mick, but it is nowhere near as easy as people like to pretend.
<popey> shauno: ubuntu wouldn't even see the hard disk in my computer
<popey> but then neither does xp or windows vista.. or windows 7
<KINGOFSWORDS> unknown host maybe you mispelled it
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, that's via the gui, or using /connect in a new server tab?
<KINGOFSWORDS> dunno
<KINGOFSWORDS> i typed it here and a ne tab opened
<KINGOFSWORDS> i dont wana spend all nite sorting this out
<willy1977> neither do we
<popey> i see MattJ explained how to do it earlier.. did you try that?
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, can you try "/server irc.rizon.net 6667" instead if /connect?
<popey> 20:41:58 < MattJ> On mine at least go to the 'XChat' menu and choose 'Network list', then the 'Add' button
<willy1977> sorry - sometimes need to stop my fingers before pressing enter
<brobostigon> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/printer.jpg
<penguin42> hehe
<KINGOFSWORDS> how do i get jocky to run in gnome
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: system -> admin -> hardware drivers
<KINGOFSWORDS> not there
<KINGOFSWORDS> it wont install
<KINGOFSWORDS> but terminal says it is
<KINGOFSWORDS> omg this is crazy
<KINGOFSWORDS> where do i get help from?
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, general help? #ubuntu
<KINGOFSWORDS> thx
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: when you say 'where is jockey' its pre-installed
<popey> what do you want to use jockey to do? install a video driver?
<KINGOFSWORDS> am i srtill here
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: yes
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: I've still yet to see what you're actually trying to do
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: not the fact that you're trying to run jockey, but why you are running it.
<directhex> cd Des
<directhex> oops
<popey> jockey is usually something you only run once after you install to setup your nvidia or ati video driver
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS> i cant get compiz to work
<popey> ok
<popey> what video card does your computer have?
<popey> or
<KINGOFSWORDS> tried enabling visual effects>extras and it wont
<popey> what model computer is it?
<KINGOFSWORDS> nvidia 8400m gs
<popey> ok.
<KINGOFSWORDS> i had ubuntu karmic installed yesterday and used envy to easily get nvidia driver and had compiz work
<popey> technically you dont need envy
<KINGOFSWORDS> no but i havent got a clue what i need
<directhex> envy was superceded by jockey, whose icon is in System, Administration, Additional Drivers (or Hardware Drivers, depends on your release)
<popey> well, shouldn't
<popey> !nvidia
<KINGOFSWORDS> ubuntu forum have loads of ppl posting problems and then when i read th thread there is no real wolrd solution
<lubotu3> For Ati/NVidia/Matrox video cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto
<KINGOFSWORDS> i ve got no idea how to use linux at all and am getting nowhere having spend 3 days messing around
<popey> sounds frustrating
<popey> i use an nvidia card on my laptop and my desktop
<popey> if you have a standard install of 10.04 then you should find the path that directhex told you works
<KINGOFSWORDS> i have systme adminstration>hardware drivers but disabled crappy nvidia driver and now hardware drivers icon is no longer there
<popey> System -> Administration -> Additional Drivers (or Hardware Drivers)
<popey> disabled what driver?
<KINGOFSWORDS> not there anymore
<popey> is that the only thing you have done?
<directhex> how on earth did that... did you follow a guide to install envy, or something?
<KINGOFSWORDS> the standard one that comes up on install
<popey> or have you tried lots of other guides online?
<KINGOFSWORDS> nah been messing around all day sso cant remember what ive done but
<popey> ok
<popey> thats understandable
<KINGOFSWORDS> install jockey 3 or 4 times and got install error
<directhex> (the package is called jockey-gtk)
<popey> easy to get in a mess when trying lots of different things out
<KINGOFSWORDS> its says it didnt install but when i try to install differnet ver. says its there
<KINGOFSWORDS> i got no idea how to use linux im just copy and pasting stuff off forums
<directhex> how are you trying to install it?
<KINGOFSWORDS> cant even dl drivers from nvidia site now
<KINGOFSWORDS> i dont know
<popey> best not to do that anyway
<directhex> those are guaranteed to kill your system, tbh
<directhex> certainly if you have a 64-bit system
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: are you on the machine right now?
<KINGOFSWORDS> yeh read that thats y i wanted an envy type prog that worked perfectly in ubuntu 9.1
<KINGOFSWORDS> uhhh
<KINGOFSWORDS> i have 64 bit system
<KINGOFSWORDS> yeh
<popey> ok, cool
<popey> open a browser to http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<popey> and open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories
<popey> in the terminal type (without quotes) "sudo apt-get update"
<popey> then paste the entire contents of the terminal in the box in the browser, and put a name in the name box and press enter
<popey> let us know the url of the paste
<popey> the "sudo apt-get update" will ask for your password, this is normal
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS> done that
<popey> whats the url of the paste?
<KINGOFSWORDS> dont understand what that is?
<popey> did you copy and paste the contents of the terminal window into the box marked "content:" in http://paste.ubuntu.com/ ?
<KINGOFSWORDS> sudo cmd just printed a long list of https
<popey> good
<popey> so paste that in http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591899/
<popey> ta
<KINGOFSWORDS> ahh i see what u doing now
<KINGOFSWORDS> sorry thought it was a diagnose site
<KINGOFSWORDS> thx
<popey> thats not the entire terminal
<popey> only the top part
<popey> the window scrolls as you get to the bottom
<popey> or top
<popey> anyway.
<popey> Now try "sudo apt-get install nvidia-current"
<popey> and paste the result of that in a new pastebin
<KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591900/
<popey> ok, that looks better :)
<KINGOFSWORDS> thats same one i did again
<popey> yeah, no probs, I see
<popey> now the next one...  "sudo apt-get install nvidia-current"
<directhex> running it several times is harmless. the command refreshes the list of packages your system is able to install, from the online lists of packages you have configured
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 65 not upgraded
<KINGOFSWORDS> shall i copy whole thing from nvidia currenet?
<directhex> yes
 * popey needs to go to bed
<KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/591901/
<directhex> well that's saying you already have the nvidia driver installed. have you rebooted recently?
<KINGOFSWORDS> are drivers different for each graphics card type?
<KINGOFSWORDS> yeh rebooted couple of time 30 mins a go
<KINGOFSWORDS> my pc froze
<KINGOFSWORDS> whilst messing with jocky installs
<popey> directhex: worth a sudo nvidia-xconfig ?
<directhex> well, there are three or four nvidia drivers, and one ati driver
<KINGOFSWORDS> i tried xorg.conf and couldnt find it
<directhex> popey, perhaps. or a check of Xorg.0.log
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: what happens if you run "sudo nvidia-xconfig"
<KINGOFSWORDS> i mean are they all same such as the 8 series uses one or all geforce use same one
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, that's... slightly complicated. i think there are two drivers that can do the 8000 series
<directhex> maybe three
<KINGOFSWORDS> WARNING: Unable to locate/open X configuration file.
<KINGOFSWORDS> New X configuration file written to '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'
<brobostigon> goog night everyone, sleep well.
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: that's kinda a good sign :)
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, basically occasionally nvidia drop support for a card or bunch of cards in the new drivers, so the old driver needs to be kept. so there's the newest driver, and three "old" drivers, in the archive, to handle all the different cards
<popey> the fact that the config didnt exist and now does
<KINGOFSWORDS> james@ubuntu:~$ Window manager warning: Invalid WM_TRANSIENT_FOR window 0x4c00003 specified for 0x4c00027 (StartUp-Ma).
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: did you just try to switch on compiz?
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, you need to reboot after enabling the driver. well that's only half true, but rebooting is easiest
<popey> indeed
<popey> what he said
<popey> now, I need bed
<popey> nn all
<KINGOFSWORDS_> pc just crashed again
<directhex> after rebooting?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> no thats y i rebooted
<KINGOFSWORDS_> not being funny but this is y i moved to linux to stop this
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS_, when you say it crashed, it froze up, or what?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> only installed it last nite and it duo core 2.4 with 4gb ram...dont see y it crashes with only 4 things open
<KINGOFSWORDS_> its froze sorry so i rebooted
<KINGOFSWORDS_> have i quit?
<directhex> well, let's try something.
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
<directhex> open up a terminal again from applications/accessories
<directhex> and type "grep nvidia_ /var/log/Xorg.0.log" - or just paste that in
<directhex> the underscore is important
<KINGOFSWORDS_> has popeye gone 2 bed?
<directhex> popey has gone to bed, yes.
<KINGOFSWORDS_> i cant copy in xchat
<directhex> highlight the text to copy it, then middle-click to paste it
<KINGOFSWORDS_> no middle button
<directhex> oh... click both left & right at the same time, then!
<KINGOFSWORDS_> (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules/nvidia_drv.so
<KINGOFSWORDS_> (II) Unloading /usr/lib/xorg/extra-modules/nvidia_drv.so
<directhex> well, the good news is: you're using the nvidia driver, as you wanted to. so check whether you can ebale effects from the appearance settings?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> omg...nice 1 been trying to find copy in xchat
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ive diactivated the driver...should i turn back on
<KINGOFSWORDS_> desktop effects could not be enabled
<directhex> you activated it with the "nvidia-xconfig" command popey asked you to run - but it only switches when you reboot
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS_> isnt the lack of compiz a driver issue thou?
<directhex> right. use paste.debian.net in a browser - you can select a file to upload. browse to /var/log and upload Xorg.0.log
<KINGOFSWORDS_> http://paste.debian.net/113552/
<KINGOFSWORDS_> i have a Xorg.0.old.llog too...would that conflict?
<directhex> whenever the GUI starts, it makes a fresh Xorg.0.log, and copies the old one to Xorg.0.log.old, so you can compare
<directhex> this is good reading, though
<directhex> hmm, let me thinl
<directhex> think
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS_> do u want jocky log too?
<directhex> yeah, sure
<KINGOFSWORDS_> http://paste.debian.net/113553/
<KINGOFSWORDS_> omg jocky log is 2169 lines long wont send
<directhex> don't worry about it
 * Guest83277 hi room
<directhex> let's work on the more immediate question
<directhex> can you run "modinfo nvidia" in a terminal? it should either give a bunch of info, or a "not found" error. let me know which (i don't need the actual info, just to know which type it is, error or loads o' stuff)
<KINGOFSWORDS_> left terminal on and theres more text from the grep thing u told me to do
<KINGOFSWORDS_> could not find module nvidia
<directhex> right, i'm getting a clearer picture of the problem
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS_> i think i had a dodgy install
<directhex> right. in the terminal, run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-current".
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok done
<KINGOFSWORDS_> install complete
<directhex> "DKMS: install Completed." ?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> yep
<directhex> and if you do "modinfo nvidia", now there's a load of data?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> nope
<directhex> ... huh?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> could not find module nvidia
<directhex> can you paste the last bunch of lines from the terminal, everything from "dpkg-reconfigure" down?
<directhex> onto a pastebin, that is
<directhex> paste.ubuntu.com it
<KINGOFSWORDS_> says no original module exsists in this kernel
<directhex> i need to see the full output
<KINGOFSWORDS_> http://paste.debian.net/113554/
<KINGOFSWORDS_> sure
<directhex> damn, sorry, my mistake
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
<directhex> i forgot about some of the ubuntuisms they do
<directhex> "modinfo nvidia-current"
<KINGOFSWORDS_> k that loaded alot of data..do u wanna c it?
<directhex> nope, just wanted to know data was loaded
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
<directhex> now run "sudo modprobe nvidia-current". either it'll give an error, or no message at all
<KINGOFSWORDS_> no msg
<directhex> great!
<KINGOFSWORDS_> =)
<directhex> now run "sudo nvidia-xconfig", and reboot
<KINGOFSWORDS> back
<directhex> how's the effects situation?
<KINGOFSWORDS> same as b4
<directhex> hm
<directhex> can you make a new paste on paste.debian.net of your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
<KINGOFSWORDS> no system >admin >hardware or visual effects
<directhex> i'm wondering if you don't have a working driver now, but jockey's busted
<KINGOFSWORDS> sure#
<KINGOFSWORDS> http://paste.debian.net/113555/
<KINGOFSWORDS> when i restarted it said didnt have graphics support or s'thing
<KINGOFSWORDS> had to run with restricted graphics
<KINGOFSWORDS> did i bust jockey?
<directhex> huh... there's still something missing, i think
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok
<directhex> let's try this from another angle. open a terminal, and run "dpkg -l jockey-gtk". that's a lower-case L.
<KINGOFSWORDS> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<KINGOFSWORDS> | Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
<KINGOFSWORDS> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<KINGOFSWORDS> ||/ Name           Version        Description
<KINGOFSWORDS> +++-==============-==============-============================================
<KINGOFSWORDS> rc  jockey-gtk     0.5.8-0ubuntu8 GNOME user interface and desktop integration
<directhex> so jockey is uninstalled
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok....did i do that
<directhex> let's reinstall that. type "sudo apt-get install jockey-gtk"
<KINGOFSWORDS> done
<directhex> your icon should be back in System/Administration
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-10
<KINGOFSWORDS> surely that would show up in the synaptic pakage mgr if it wasnt there
<KINGOFSWORDS> omg
<KINGOFSWORDS> wow yeh ty directhex=)
<directhex> so run it, and we'll see what it thinks your status is
<KINGOFSWORDS> so should i just dl the recommended driver from there
<directhex> yes, let it do that. we'll see what happens
<Bruce85> hey all, my gnome-panel is connecting to random IP's. RKHunter finds nothing. Is this OK? Anybody else seeing this?
<KINGOFSWORDS> nvidia_current buts it deactivated
<gord> Bruce85, prolly the weather service
<Bruce85> cool, cheers gord
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, so try activating it. it'll take a while, probably
<KINGOFSWORDS> directhex...even when ativated compiz is still not working
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, activated and rebooted?
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok i ll try again
<KINGOFSWORDS> activated brb
<KINGOFSWORDS_> bac
<directhex> how're we looking? did you get the "low graphics mode" thing this time?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> uhhhhhhh
<KINGOFSWORDS_> omg wobbly windows is  working
<KINGOFSWORDS_> so must mean compiz is good to go
<directhex> well, yes, compiz is what does wobbly windows
<KINGOFSWORDS_> no low graphics but did notice nvidia splash screen as pc booted for split second
<KINGOFSWORDS_> lol
<directhex> well, that sounds promising
<KINGOFSWORDS_> omg i cant believe that... my nightmare is over..
<KINGOFSWORDS_> thank you so directhex...
<directhex> the burning question is "what the hell broke jockey?"
<directhex> but i guess for now you just want to get on & use your system
<KINGOFSWORDS_> i dont understand what u did thou.....
<KINGOFSWORDS_> but even b4 jocky broke compiz wont work
<directhex> there are a lot of steps involved in making the driver work. for some reason, a step wasn;'t finished
<directhex> i'm not sure which one, or why, but that's what happened
<KINGOFSWORDS_> there was a decrency when i dled and installedd jockey so maybe it partly installed and overwrote the original jocky
<directhex> maybe
<KINGOFSWORDS_> i have been copying and pasting a lot of stpes from forum and tuturials..without understading what its doing so maybe messed a few up
<directhex> maybe.
<directhex> the thing to remember is a LOT of info on forms falls into two categories: ancient (and no longer accurate), or flat-out stupid & wrong
<directhex> the danger is it's hard to know the difference if you don't know what you're looking for
<KINGOFSWORDS_> true
<KINGOFSWORDS_> most of it was dated pre 2007
<KINGOFSWORDS_> i cant get onto my other desktops now thou
<directhex> compiz handles virtual desktops in a funny way
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS_> cube doesnt work either
<KINGOFSWORDS_> is that a driver thing too
<directhex> a lot of compiz features aren't on by default in ubuntu
<KINGOFSWORDS_> super+e works to move desktops but click the panels in bottom right doesnt
<directhex> install compizconfig-settings-manager in synaptic or add/remove programs or apt-get or whatever
<KINGOFSWORDS_> yeh i have cc setting mgnr already
<directhex> is the cube plugin enabled?
<KINGOFSWORDS_> ive tick the box...that y i was using wobbly windows as a check to c if compiz worked
<KINGOFSWORDS_> cube plug in is enabled
<directhex> well, compiz tweaking is outside my zone of expertise
<directhex> but at least you've got a working 3d-accelerated desktop
<KINGOFSWORDS_> strange
<KINGOFSWORDS_> hmmmm lol
<KINGOFSWORDS_> works...enabled desktop cube but not desktop rotate
<KINGOFSWORDS_> desktops in bottom right works now nice one....can get on and pimp my laptop now=)
<directhex> gold chains and some spinners, that's the best advice.
<KINGOFSWORDS_> lol cairo dock looks cool
<penguin42> is anyone trying the ~gnome3-team ppa and if so is there a top level meta package to install the lot
<shauno> it should be gnome-desktop3, but that didn't want to work for me
<penguin42> yeh, ditto
<shauno> or rather, everything I googled kept pointing to gnome-desktop3
<penguin42> yeh the package source is there, and there is a gnome-desktop3-data and a libgnome-desktop-3 but no actual gnome-desktop3
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi back again
<KINGOFSWORDS> my title bars have disapeared
<penguin42> shauno: HMm I don't think I've quite got it, I've got what I think is gnome shell, but it looks like an ancient theme
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, sounds like compiz crashed. perhaps one of your plugins is unstable?
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, if you can get into system/prefernces/appearance, turn effects off and on again
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi directhex
<KINGOFSWORDS> i messed around with emerald and they came back a different colour and min max and close on other side
<gord> hehe oh geez emerald, its 2006 again!
<KINGOFSWORDS> just found this on forum ...metacity --replace and it came back right away...im getting better with this linux melarky
<KINGOFSWORDS> gord is emerald old then..should i not bother exploring it?
<KINGOFSWORDS> whats geentoo aswell?
<gord> KINGOFSWORDS, yup, leave it alone :)
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok
<gord> gentoo is like ubuntu - a linux distribution, we share a lot of the same software - but gentoo take a different view on packages, basically you get the newest stuff all the time on gentoo, whereas on ubuntu we take six months to bug fix and polish software before making a release
<gord> ooookay, my internet has gone crazy, google's dns is reporting wrong ip's for a website. maybe its bedtime
<KINGOFSWORDS> oh i thought it was like a graphical thing like compiz or beyrl
<shauno> I really need to tidy my desk up.  just grabbed the wrong coffee cup.  yuck :(
<MartijnVdS> Ooh. F1 in a few hours
<MartijnVdS> \o/ F1
<danfish> \o/ winnie the pooh here ;)
<MartijnVdS> bother :P
<danfish> :)
<MartijnVdS> If you multiply together the number of fingers of everyone in the world, what answer do you get?
<danfish> 0
<MartijnVdS> Points to you :)
<danfish> :D
<danfish> Why is it better to have round manhole covers than square ones?
<MartijnVdS> Round ones have the same radius everywhere, so they can't fall in
<danfish> exactamundo :)
<MartijnVdS> #ubuntu-uk-pubquiz :)
<danfish> eww - don't mention pub - got a bit drunk in one last night then went for a chinese. Now in an
<danfish> MSG inspired hangover :(
<MartijnVdS> umami
<danfish> more like a tsunami in my guts :(
<MartijnVdS> if it's MSG, it's an umami tsunami
<danfish> quite true
<gordonjcp> mmm, chinese food
<gordonjcp> I wish I had some Wor Teap Chicken and some salt-and-pepper ribs right now
 * popey hugs directhex 
<gordonjcp> argh, it's 9:36
<gordonjcp> popey: what's directhex?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: /names
<gordonjcp> ah, a person
<gordonjcp> hm, /lastlog -clear and not /win close
<HazRPG> \o
<MartijnVdS> morning HazRPG
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: morning squire :)
<HazRPG> time for some eyptian tea :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: My recipe is finally in Calibre's new update :D
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> how are you doing today
<Jibadeeha> formula 1 is making me sleepy
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I prefer afternoon races
<MartijnVdS> around afternoon nap time :)
<Jibadeeha> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer has just made own blend of 5-spice powder and is now cooking roast belly pork for me and the kids. :-)
<popey> yum!
<danfish> very nice - but why no bbq?
<popey> Y U NO BBQ!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had a barby last night
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will probly eat outside though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My first time with pork belly. Been highly recommended by others in the pub.
<popey> my mum cooks belly pork a fair bit
<popey> she uses up the odd bits in fried rice, tis blooming lovely
<danfish> needs a lot of cooking mind
 * TheOpenSourcerer notes the time. 
<TheOpenSourcerer> About 3hrs I reckon.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am just doing the crackling right now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then will turn down slow and roast for another 2 1/2hrs.
<danfish> what time do you want us round? ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes and peels another 50 spuds for danfish and popey
<danfish> nah - dump the spuds, go get another pig :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shame but understandable: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110409161444432 Groklaw comes to and end.
<Jibadeeha> got the lamb in the slow cooker - smells lovely
<MartijnVdS> slow cookers++
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<dwatkins> mornin all
<brobostigon> good morning MartijnVdS and dwatkins
<dwatkins> It's a lovely sunny day in deepest Berkshire today.
<brobostigon> here aswell, yes,
<MartijnVdS> same in Alphen aan den Rijn
<dwatkins> oh wait, I'm on the other side of the border, in Oxfordshire actually.
 * brobostigon waves at dwatkins from the same county,
<dwatkins> You can tell where the border is, because the road is usually better on one side of it ;)
<MartijnVdS> This is/was ~200m from my house: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13027996
<dwatkins> brobostigon: I'm only paying a flying visit to relatives, was my brothers' 40th yesterday - heading back up to Edinburgh later on.
 * dwatkins grew-up in Goring-on-Thames
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, i see, i hope it went smoothly.
<dwatkins> eek, MartijnVdS :-/ someone got shot on the street my girlfriend lives on a couple weeks ago, that was scary
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i have family justdownthe road fromthere in purley.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: yeah, went very well thanks, they visited both sides of the family and we all had a good day with lots of [computer] games and a nice walk
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I was about to get groceries when I heard the police and medical helicopters
<dwatkins> ah yes, I used to live in Reading
<brobostigon> dwatkins: :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: if I'd gone shopping 10 minutes earlier...
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, doesn't bear thinking about
<dwatkins> What's probably making it even harder for the relatives of the victims is that the shooter was let off beforehand.
<MartijnVdS> Gun clubs already had a reputation problem (public opinion: "they must all be wannabe-murderers, or they wouldn't want guns")
<MartijnVdS> so they're all in "damage control" mode now, explaining how strict the rules are
<dwatkins> yeah, personally I don't see the need to carry a weapon, but I guess if other people have them it might be useful.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Sure, but at home?
<dwatkins> have one in a cupboard you mean, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yeah
<dwatkins> I always think of Stargate when I think of weapons in the home.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "America"
<dwatkins> Jack O'Niell having been selected for the original [suicide] mission because his kid has shot himself with his gun by accident.
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> the film! :)
<brobostigon> good film,:)
<MartijnVdS> film > series, imho
<dwatkins> absolutely, they're both great
<HazRPG> OMG! I just found my tape from when I was a kid, and ... and ... been spending years trying to find it on CD or something and and and .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UPpI4rWX6A
<HazRPG> YAY!
<HazRPG> \o/
<HazRPG> too much coffee today I think!?
<HazRPG> lol
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssisplit i just found that onthe irssi window splitting.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: did I not link that last night :P?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i wasnt around for long, so i dont know.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, that makes sense :P
<HazRPG> (2011-04-09 7:33:49 PM) HazRPG: or http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssisplit <== see :P
<brobostigon> ah, i was cooking then, and eating, :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: did you have much fun with it?
<ali1234> HazRPG: ice ice mickey... kill it with fire
<HazRPG> ali1234: heh
<HazRPG> ali1234: childhood memories xD
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am just reading it.
<HazRPG> catch ya all later, food time i guess
<brobostigon> bye HazRPG o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Web dev stacks and operating systems - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/04/10/web-dev-stacks-and-operating-systems
<ali1234> what's all this stuff about portal 2 and potatos?
<shauno> potatoes \o/
<shauno> I believe most of it is tied into http://valvearg.com/wiki/FAQ in one way or another.  I haven't been paying that much attention tho
<ali1234> i see
<HazRPG> \o/ BBQ!
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> there is maximum amount of channels you canbe connected to att once, on freenode, icant remember what it is.
<brobostigon> please.
<Azelphur> Anyone who uses yaaic, Here's my version with auto connect support http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/April%202011/yaaic.apk You'll need to uninstall yaaic if you have it installed, as my release key obviously doesn't match the release version of yaaic, this means re-inputting your settings.
<Azelphur> tis handy because you can use profiles to launch and connect yaaic automagically \o/
<moreati> brobostigon: if it's specified by CHANLIMIT my traceback shows [08:53] [Support] moreati CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=eIbq,k,flj,CFLMPQcgimnprstz CHANLIMIT=#:120 ...
<brobostigon> moreati: so, ie, 120 channel limit?
<moreati> brobostigon: assuming CHANLIMIT means what I think, yes
<brobostigon> moreati: wow, ok, i though it was about a tenth of that.
<tomtiger11> Hello
<brobostigon> good afternoon tomtiger11
<tomtiger11> how are you
<brobostigon> tomtiger11: not bad, could be better. and you?
<tomtiger11> im fine, why could you be better?
<brobostigon> tomtiger11: just not feeling so hot, physiclly and mentally.
<tomtiger11> its cool where i live, and are we only ones chatting?
<brobostigon> i wasnt referring to the temperature.
<tomtiger11> i know!
<brobostigon> i am in eleven other channels on freenode, some are busy, and some are quiet.
<tomtiger11> i sec changing light bulb!
<tomtiger11> IM BACK!!!
<brobostigon> wb
<tomtiger11> EHH!?
<MartijnVdS> wb = welcome back
<tomtiger11> Ahh And Hi
<tomtiger11> its quiet here
<MartijnVdS> it's sunday afternoon
<MartijnVdS> I guess people are doing other things (heating up the bbq, for example)
<willy1977> afternoon - (well it is here ;)) I can think of better ways to spend a sunny sunday afternoon - sometimes I love my work...
<tomtiger11> its too cold ( where i live anyway)
<MartijnVdS> tomtiger11: Scotland? :P
<willy1977> :D
<tomtiger11> MartijnVds: England
<popey> its hot hot hot here
<willy1977> ^^^^^
<tomtiger11> Im COLD
<willy1977> well we'll not rub it in too much about it being hot where we are... in fact I'll try not to mention that it's quite hot here any more...
<MartijnVdS> popey: but you're in the deep south
<tomtiger11> im going into loft 4 5 mins soz!
<willy1977> is it warmer there tomtiger11 ? :p
<willy1977> MartijnVdS: I have visions of popey with a southern drawl now...
<popey> 20 degrees here, feels hotter
<willy1977> yeah don't think we'd be much hotter than 20 deg but it does feel warmer :D I love it...
<MartijnVdS> I'm WAY hotter than 20Â°C
 * brobostigon is ok with sun, but not heat, it irritates his eczema,
<tomtiger11> No it is freezing up there! =Z
<tomtiger11> any convo
<MartijnVdS> !weekend | tomtiger11
<lubotu3> tomtiger11: It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.
<tomtiger11> funny!
<tomtiger11> just talk
<willy1977> normally I don't mind chewing the fat...  but I'm trying to write a EDI interface for tomorrow morning :(
<willy1977> *an
<tomtiger11> c ya
 * brobostigon shakes fist at xorg-xserver-video-intel
 * MartijnVdS like x-x-v-i
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> yum yum in the tum
<HazRPG> I really like BBQ season :)
<issyl0> Mmm, BBQ.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: spare ribs (always useful, in case you lose one)
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: I was waiting for that.
 * MartijnVdS can't do BBQs here
<issyl0> Some barbecue sauce to stick it back with, eh?
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: 8-)
<daftykins> ah good weather for bike cleaning ^_^
<daftykins> evening all o/
<MartijnVdS> \o daftykins
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: why can't you do BBQ's there?
<HazRPG> daftykins: evening \o
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: my neighbors (all 50 of them) would complain :)
<MartijnVdS> Appartment--
<MartijnVdS> apartment*
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: See they call those flats over here, and I think that's weird... prefer the term "Apartments"
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: they call them flats or "blokkendoos" here
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I was using google to translate :)
<MartijnVdS> (blokkendoos = "box of blocks")
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> google translate says "blocks set" :P
<HazRPG> and if you click on it, it says "building bucket"
<HazRPG> I love the way things translate :)
<MartijnVdS> well that :)
<HazRPG> hehe
<MartijnVdS> anyway, one of those huge buildings built ~20 years after the war to put all the baby boomers in :)
<HazRPG> "noor attah" is my fav arabic phrase, it means "lights cut" or "cut lights"... basically means the electricity has died or been cut
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe
<daftykins> terminals @ 1050x1680 (portrait) are great ^_^
<daftykins> on a 20" LCD
<HazRPG> ooo
<HazRPG> wish I had 20" screens
<daftykins> it was kinda spare, so now i've got the 3500+ Athlon64 Shuttle on it with maverick installed and synergy to go between my desktop and it :D
<HazRPG> in fact 2 x 19" (proper squared[ish]) monitors would be amazing!
 * mgdm has a 24" and the laptop's 15"
<HazRPG> winner
<HazRPG> mgdm: widescreen?
<daftykins> 4:3 aspect
<HazRPG> daftykins: that's the one :)
<HazRPG> I have 2x17" 4:3 monitors :)
<mgdm> HazRPG: aye
<HazRPG> would love to have them as 19" or more
<mgdm> I'd kind of prefer 2x 24" 4:3, I think :)
<HazRPG> just because I'm not a fan of widescreen
<daftykins> erk, some widescreen displays are definitely too short, but i still like the aspect
<daftykins> 16:10 that is
<mgdm> if I had two widescreen monitors I'd probably tilt one to be portrait
<HazRPG> don't know what it is about them, I just feel like I'm being ripped off of extra screen space
<HazRPG> mgdm: haha I'd tilt both to try and even it out and make it /seem/ like I have a fullscreen 4:3
<daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/athy.jpg
<daftykins> in fact that's what i have in this shuttle :D
<daftykins> the beige box in the pic is my old Pentium 1 :O
<HazRPG> \o/
<mgdm> i used to have a tilted 4:3 at work which was handy for coding on
<HazRPG> mgdm: hmm, never thought of tilting a 4:3
<daftykins> as in rotating it portrait?
<mgdm> aye
<mgdm> I could fit more code in that way
<HazRPG> actually you know what, a tilted 16:10 would be pretty cool or a 16:9... tilted for just simply coding
<HazRPG> I'd have to have a 4:3 in there somewhere
<mgdm> my 24" doesn't tilt :(
<HazRPG> mgdm: :(
<HazRPG> I've seen at uni's that they tilt TFT monitors that are 16:10 or 16:9 to place adverts on about what's going on in the place
<HazRPG> I think it's a pretty good idea, makes it look like a moving flyer
<gordonjcp> wonder if you could use clutter to make it follow the rotation of the monitor?
<oly> hi, anyone able to tell me how packages / updates get merged into ubuntu i have been hit by this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/pyopenssl/+bug/686804 and it says a fix was commited
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 686804 in pyOpenSSL "PyOpenSSL breaks python-paste on python-2.7 (due to memoryview)" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<oly> but in natty its still broken so can you track to see if its going to be merge / whe it will be merge etc
<oly> or does it have to be report as a seperate bug against natty ?
<daftykins> HazRPG: there are some neat uses of displays at Unis yarr, though i worry for the power waste
<daftykins> i went to a friends that had LCDs outside classes or in mezzanines to show a given department area's room availability / class schedule (for cancelled lectures etc)
<daftykins> eink displays on a PC would be handy there
<daftykins> e-ink rather
<HazRPG> daftykins: uni I saw it at, they have solar panels to power the whole place
<HazRPG> there's a big LED (calculator style) thing that shows how much they've produced and saved, which I thought was pretty cool
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i sit much corrected
<daftykins> :D
<HazRPG> hehe
<daftykins> funny, i thought i had an image of the desk right now
<daftykins> but it seems i don't!
<daftykins> right, food \o/
<HazRPG> daftykins: enjoy :)
<daftykins> ta ^_^
<daftykins> ah i'm so spoilt with pixels at home
<MartijnVdS> megapixels!
<daftykins> when i go to College to teach and i have to use a 1280x1024 LCD on the desks it's painful!
<awilkins> Yeah, have to use those at work
<awilkins> I overcompensate by having 4 on my desk
<daftykins> XD
<awilkins> Three monitors + laptop
<awilkins> Had to buy a displayport->vga adapter to get all four going :)
<daftykins> interesting
<awilkins> i do have 2 computers
<daftykins> the new desktop PCs us lecturers got recently come with some weird proprietary connectors on the back of ATI (or should i say AMD) low profile cards
<daftykins> so odd i can't even remember the name of it
<awilkins> i hate those. The dongle comes in the box but try prising them out of the hands of ICT..
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> worse than that, it didn't come with one
<daftykins> it just came with it to two VGA cables
<daftykins> driving a 24" LCD over VGA is a crime :D
<awilkins> Could be DisplayPort .. All the new HP desktops come with them
<daftykins> http://crav3n.com/kb_upload/Image/Dms-59.jpg
<daftykins> there we go
<daftykins> DMS 59
<daftykins> nah it's totally unique
<daftykins> i looked at it and went... whaaaaaat!?
<awilkins> Ah yes.. Encountered those
<awilkins> Owned one I think
<HazRPG> you know I'm still hyped that my recipe got added on Calibre!
<daftykins> :o?
<HazRPG> daftykins: yup yup! Newest update that came out the other day!
<HazRPG> daftykins: you'll now see an Arabic section! (which only one, which is the one I made!)
<HazRPG> s/only one/only has one/
<daftykins> where is calibre?
<HazRPG> daftykins: an ebook reader/converter for linux/pc/mac
<HazRPG> can also download news articles with it etc
<HazRPG> and organise your ebooks
<daftykins> oh i see
<HazRPG> recipe is what calibre calls the scripts for downloading news feeds
<HazRPG> and recipes are programmed in python essentially
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> so you didn't make a food recipe...
<daftykins> aww :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does the sony eReaders support PDF at all?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<HazRPG> Fantastic, so my post will be relevant :)
<HazRPG> Some guy just recently downloaded my test ebook I put up (I put it up when I was still trying to get it to work properly), and he's says it looks great on the computer, but shows up in ??? on the sony eReader... just been explaining why, and was suggesting that he should convert to PDF to get it to work.
<MartijnVdS> I don't know if that'll work though
 * penguin42 gently wonders if a narwhal would make a good mouse pointer
<MartijnVdS> haven't tried custom fonts in pdf
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it might
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: suggest it to the design team :)
<HazRPG> penguin42: do it!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Have you got it handy? I'll send you a link to a pdf that looks fine on-screen and see if it renders on yours please :).
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I can get it from the other room
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: cool, that would be great thanks :)
 * HazRPG goes to upload pdf
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: www.hazrpg.co.uk/downloads/al-ahram.pdf
<MartijnVdS> that's a slow download :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I can't read it, but it looks like arabic (and ltr) to me
<MartijnVdS> RTL
<HazRPG> hmm
<MartijnVdS> hmm?
<MartijnVdS> is says "Tweet" just below the title :)
<MartijnVdS> and the font is a bit tiny
<HazRPG> www.hazrpg.co.uk/downloads/Screenshot-Al-Ahram.png <== something like that
<MartijnVdS> yes
<HazRPG> oh tiny fonts?
<HazRPG> like how tiny?
<MartijnVdS> except black and white
<HazRPG> obviously :P
<HazRPG> like 6pt tiny? or 10pt tiny?
<HazRPG> (roughly)
<MartijnVdS> 8-9ish :)
<MartijnVdS> it's very slow (but it's a large PDF)
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> but its better than nothing for those that want arabic though, it's a start right :P?
<MartijnVdS> sure
<HazRPG> Much thanks for the testing btw :)
<MartijnVdS> np
<MartijnVdS> this is bizarre.. Live TV from 200m down the road
<MartijnVdS> (national TV)
<popey> evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<MartijnVdS> popey: how's your evening?
<popey> cheese, wine, telly, irc
<popey> win
 * MartijnVdS has the last 3 atm :)
 * AlanBell has wine and IRC
<MartijnVdS> no telly?
<AlanBell> wife has telly
 * czajkowski has a doubledecker diet coke and irc 
<czajkowski> I win :p
<czajkowski> so there
<willy1977> work and irc... :(
<willy1977> missing out somwhere :p
<AlanBell> going through photos in fspot
<HazRPG> irc + tango here :)
<Laney> stir fry + (grilled red pepper & feta) + music - wine + irc
 * brobostigon also have wine and irc.
<Laney> (+ teA)
<HazRPG> willy1977: work at 8:30PM? On a Sunday?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: you know, never really used fspot, is it actually any good?
<MartijnVdS> f-spot is nice, but compared to shotwell it's a bit slow
<willy1977> HazRPG: stoopid deadline and a not so understanding boss...
<MartijnVdS> But compared to what came before it it's fast
<Laney> sadly nobody pays to develop it :(
<AlanBell> HazRPG: dunno really, I don't use it much, normally just copy photos where I want them
<AlanBell> just thought I would let it import them this time
 * MartijnVdS uploaded a few new pics earlier
<popey> tony has switched to bubble or whatever its called
<HazRPG> willy1977: ouch
<MartijnVdS> popey: xbubble - A nice Puzzle Bubble clone
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157624906925557/
<willy1977> HazRPG: pay my money take my choice I guess ;)
<AlanBell> I don't really take photos much, but today my son was running round snapping everyone at a family thing
<AlanBell> ended up with quite a few keepable shots
<HazRPG> willy1977: heh :P
<AlanBell> ooh, that one of me is *not* keepable
<HazRPG> AlanBell: nice :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: censorship!
<HazRPG> AlanBell: heh!
<popey> bibble
<popey> ^ photo app
<gord> bobble
<gord> oh i thought we were just making up words :(
<MartijnVdS> ah that's not the wine talking :P
<MartijnVdS> martijn@vaio:~$ apt-cache search bibble
<MartijnVdS> martijn@vaio:~$
<HazRPG> ibble, bobble, black, bobble, ibble, bobble, out?
<HazRPG> that was a way the girls would do "eenie, meenie, minnie, mo"
<popey> http://bibblelabs.com/press/
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, I did that command too and went "did I type it in wrong?"
<HazRPG> oh wow, linux version \o/
<gord> "photographic workflow at the speed of light"....
<HazRPG> I  originally thought "urgh... trial... must be windows only"
<gord> gmail is really annoying when you need to skip to the oldest mail
<gord> you have to go through like 5 pages of emails before it will give you the option
<MartijnVdS> gord: just search for it :)
<gord> MartijnVdS, search doesn't work so well when your looking for a specific email that you know was the first email said company sent you, because the titles are always the same
<MartijnVdS> look for the company name/domain
<gord> like i said, that doesn't work too wel
<gord> you get eight thousand emails from them
<MartijnVdS> Feature request :)
<gord> its my own fault for being too lazy to open evolution ;)
<gord> just seems like stupidity on googles part is all
<MartijnVdS> openssl s_client + type some IMAP :)
<gord> ubuntu really needs an email client that doesn't suck, one that doesn't eat up all the resources in the world just to read text files would be a plus too
<gord> i shouldn't have to worry if an email client will run on my netbook ;)
<MartijnVdS> it has several web browsers that render gmail fine :P
<gord> thats nice, but gmail is annoying, plus i don't want to access my work email through it
<MartijnVdS> I love gmail
<MartijnVdS> I want thunderbird to be more like it (for work mail)
<MartijnVdS> the "archive" button helps
<gord> it would be fine, but it has too much ajax web app annoyances for me, maybe its just my connection but half the time i click a button and nothing happens
<gord> no local caching isn't always a good idea
<MartijnVdS> it's just your connection :)
<gord> i think its just my connection when i'm downloading/uploading stuff
<MartijnVdS> but I love the way it works (with the "all mail" archive)
<gord> its archiving stuff is great, priority inbox is *awesome* - but the paper cut annoyances are too much for me
<gord> its also damn easy to filter mail in gmail too
<MartijnVdS> gord: I don't get enough mail for PI
<gord> i have almost 50 thousand unread emails in a launchpad related folder :(
<MartijnVdS> ah yes.. launchpad is a spammy bit of software
<MartijnVdS> I have an RT folder like that at work
<MartijnVdS> and a cron-errors folder
<gord> well they are good, i don't need the archive the emails really
<gord> its all "bug status changed" and such - easier than checking the bug reports every day
<MartijnVdS> gord: Launchpad mails? Agreed. But email from the boss? Archive please :)
<daftykins> right, landscape says i should restart, so far be it for me to question!
<daftykins> brb
<hamitron> o/
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<willy1977> o/ g'night - I give up.
<HazRPG> willy1977: nite dude, sleep well \o
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-02
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<daubers> Morning
<JamesTait> Goooooood mooooornin' intarwebz!
<hank3three3> I was trying to increase the workspaces, and couldnt find out how to do it anywhere, and ended up only being able to do it via the terminal....how come? What is missing......
<BigRedS> hank3three3: is this in Unity?
<BigRedS> You need to use ccsm which is for some reason not installed by default.
<hank3three3> yes, sorry, too early in the morning
<BigRedS> apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager I think
<hank3three3> ah, I wondered why I couldnt find it
<BigRedS> it's a bit easy to break Unity with it, but it's also the only way to configure it
<hank3three3> ok, will see if I can do that
<hank3three3> well the command worked, thanks for the heads up on breaking unity with it, if I remember its in general and one of the tabs so I wont be doing anything else with it, just finished installing
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> I wish there was a bit better way of telling if I'm in Launchpad trying to file a duplicate bug than trying to remember all I can from apport window and comparing it with the other similar results
<hank3three3> yep, I was right, but wont go in there unless I really have to again, thanks for the help.
<Myrtti> also, I swear I sent the chromium window to another workspace, not close the whole thing
<BigRedS> hank3three3: yeah, no worries! I think there's a way to reset everythin in that to dfaults from the command line if you do manage to break it :)
<czajkowski> GOOOOOOOOOOOD MORNING!!!
<Myrtti> oh well, I didn't want to file that bug report anyway
<hank3three3> I am getting quite used ti Unity, but I have installed via Synaptic xubuntu, and that looks really good too.......but I update everything using Unity 12.04 and its been pretty stable since I installed it, had a few bugs, but nothing serious
<sagaci> hank3three3, same experience throughout most of this release
<hank3three3> Think this will be a good release as far as it not being buggy.....well impressed
<bigcalm> Good morning sleepy peeps :)
<bigcalm> Or is that me
<popey> Morning!
<bigcalm> Yes, it's just me
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<sagaci> popey, in the top bar where it shows the program name, are you getting a weird visual defect on the first character?
<popey> sagaci: no, screenshot?
<sagaci> I would but the screenshot app is crashing
<sagaci> :)
<sagaci> you'd be able to notice it, the first character is a pixel or two extra wide on the left
<bigcalm> sagaci: maybe more coffee is needed
<bigcalm> I know I need more
<gord> bigcalm, do we have a thingy this thursday or is it next thursday?
<bigcalm> gord: thingy is this Thursday
<popey> sagaci: shutter is a lovely screenshot app
<gord> cool, will book a ticket
<sagaci> wouldn't be a bad idea to dock a screenshot app to the dev releases temporarily
<bigcalm> gord: a thingy being the workplace day. The happy hour/pre-release party is the following fortnight (19th)
<gord> oh cool, four day weekend this weekend
<Myrtti> same difference to me... *sigh*
<bigcalm> gord: this week and next :D
<Myrtti> apart from I need to go visit my sister and go say happy birthday to mum as well
<gord> bigcalm, next?
<bigcalm> gord: Good Friday and Easter Monday are bank holidays
<Myrtti> bigcalm: yes but next week?
<Myrtti> is it queenie holiday?
<gord> bigcalm, yeah, hence the "four day" weekend ;)
<sagaci> popey, the last two comments of bug 957868
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 957868 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity panel has visual defect in top left" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957868
<bigcalm> Oh, sorry, missread as four day week
<gord> awesome queenie holiday is june
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I forgot about that, think it's later though
<MooDoo> gord: thought the four day weekend was just generic bank hols?
<Myrtti> my sister got engaged on Leap Day as well, she has her party on Saturday. I still don't know what to get her as a present... was thinking of Ticket to Ride
<popey> ooer sagaci, no i dont see that
<gord> found the best gif file on the internet http://i.imgur.com/QyM8v.gif
<popey> awww
<awilkins> Hmm. The Ubuntu website needs to drop the April Fool from the frontpage, methinks. Although I was rooting for it to be true.
<awilkins> So... now it's 12.04 ... when's Precise out?  <ducks>
<bigcalm> 26th
<gord> we're doing a final unity release this week
<bigcalm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin
<awilkins> Shiny
<popey> s/this/next/
<gord> we as in, me and my team ;) not ubuntu
<popey> :D
<gord> should probably close this dog gif now
<gord> don't really have the heart
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<czajkowski> awilkins: always the end of the month, except 10.10.10
<kaushal_> Hi
<kaushal_> I am ssh to a remote server using my office lan connection, i also do have a wifi connection
<kaushal_> when i unplug from wired , is there a way to maintain the ssh session when my laptop establishes wifi ?
<directhex> not unless your office DHCP server is configured to assign the same IP address on both wired & wireless
<kaushal_> ok
<kaushal_> directhex: makes sense
<kaushal_> directhex: any way to restart the ssh session on client side ?
<kaushal_> i mean automatically
<BigRedS> while [ 1 ]; do ssh host; done
<BigRedS> is a bodgy way of doing it
<bigcalm> Eugh
<BigRedS> not exactly sure how you'd get out of that, though
<webpigeo1> Don't put that in your bashrc :/
<BigRedS> hah, no
<bigcalm> Don't put that anywhere near any machine ever
<BigRedS> it's not that bad!
<BigRedS> you could just kill it from a different termina
<BigRedS> l
<bigcalm> Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
<kaushal_> bigcalm: how about autossh ?
 * bigcalm shrugs :)
<bigcalm> I'm not really in this convo :)
<webpigeon> kaushal_: ooo, that looks shiny
<directhex> i'm not really here. i'm a ghost. wooooooo!
 * popey jumps
<kaushal_> :)
<webpigeon> and it's packaged in ubuntu
<webpigeon> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/autossh || http://www.harding.motd.ca/autossh/
<popey> kaushal_: why not just stay on wifi?
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski a happy Monday
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning MooDoo nice pics over the weekend by the way what software were you playing with?
<davmor2> bigcalm: morning dude no ics then
<czajkowski> davmor2: good morning sir
<davmor2> czajkowski: see that just sounds wrong ;)
<bigcalm> davmor2: indeed, no ICS. It would nice to know what their intentions are
<davmor2> bigcalm: ask them the email address is on their website
<bigcalm> That requires effort. Maybe later
<Dave2> ICS :(
<Laney> internet connection sharing
<Dave2> I did spend ages metnally associating it with that
<Dave2> mentally
<bigcalm> Met Nally sounds like a fun person
<Dave2> quite
<Dave2> I met nally
<bigcalm> In an ally?
<Dave2> an a11y
<bigcalm> Cat over the road is meowing at passing cars. I guess she thinks they are going to feed her
<davmor2> Dave2: why U tally men
<bigcalm> Poor kitty
<bigcalm> Now I want a banana
<jonathonf> hallo
<jonathonf> what's the current best screen recorder?
<jonathonf> (i.e. what is popey using at the minute?)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RecordingScreencasts
<davmor2> jonathonf: record my desktop is the one I use seems fine but popey may counter that argument
<jonathonf> thanks both; i'll give it a go
<DJones> I thought the best screen recorder _was_ popey  :)
<jonathonf> have a rather charming unity2d bug :D
<jonathonf> lol
<jonathonf> huh... well recordmydesktop makes my desktop slow to a crawl... can't click or type
<davmor2> jonathonf: I think a lot of people are using kazaam
<jonathonf> right, i'll try that now :)
<jonathonf> that works better
<popey> kazam
<popey> kazam is under active development, which none of the others are
<popey> and the developer is a lovely chap who hangs out in #kazam
<popey> (BigWhale on irc)
<jonathonf> arg... recording makes everything hang... does it need hardware acceleration?
<popey> no
<jonathonf>  hmm... wonder if it's because it's running unity2d in fallback (fglrx doesn't work with 3.4-rc1)
<jonathonf> reboot may be in order
<jonathonf> thanks all
<jonathonf> great - rebooted, kazam works without killing my desktop, and now the bug doesn't happen :(
<bigcalm> Maybe that's how you fix the bug
<jonathonf> :)
<piffer111> Hi.  I'm trying to get rid of a nasty package that has screwed up apt/dpkg
<piffer111> Can someone tell me where the list of packages is held, so that I can delete the package manually
<piffer111> I've tried everything else
<davmor2> piffer111: no you don't delete a package like that,  what is the issue
<piffer111> davmor2: I fear that I now do.
<piffer111> davmor2: When I try to apt-get remove the package, it hangs
<piffer111> davmor2: It was looking for python 2.5, so I installed python 2.5, and then there was a script error
<piffer111> davmore2: In any case, I've deleted all the files of the package by hand
<piffer111> davmor2: So now I just have to tell apt to completely ignore the package.  I tried everything - remove, purge...
<piffer111> davmor2: I tried apt-get clean, autoclean
<piffer111> I see the packages in /var/lib/dpkg/info
<piffer111> Can I just delete the files which refer to the package>
<piffer111> ?
<popey> erk, that sounds drastic
<piffer111> It totally screwed up my system
<piffer111> It was the only package that has ever done that
<piffer111> It was python-orange
<piffer111>    8349 Package: python-orange
<piffer111>    8350 Status: purge ok half-configured
<directhex> piffer111, try removing /var/lib/dpkg/info/python-orange.post* and /var/lib/dpkg/info/python-orange.pre*
<piffer111> direct: Yep.  That's what I just did.
<piffer111> Thank you.  :)
<directhex> then remove it via apt-get remove --purge python-orange
<piffer111> OK, looks like I totally nuked that dirty package from my syste,
<piffer111> m
<piffer111> thanks y'all   :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Oattes] Easier connectors for RGB strips - http://www.cjo20.net/blog/?p=94
<diplo> Afternoon all
<MooDoo> howdy
<davmor2> bigcalm: hmmmmmmmm bacon sarnie for lunch
<Myrtti> wohey, my package has been packaged and I might even get it before Thursday! \o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<popey> \o/ my fixed ipad is due for delivery on my birthday \o/
<directhex> i did not receive mass effect 3 for my birthday :(
<awilkins> back to screen recording : what about VLC using screen://  ?
 * popey stil recommends kazam
<popey> http://youtube.com/user/popeydc <- all of those made with kazam
<popey> and instantly uploaded to youtube. just worked
<awilkins> I still think recording an RDP stream would be ace
<awilkins> Low bandwidth, super nice output
<awilkins> Maybe you could do the same for NX
 * awilkins awilkins rages at the git who has packed these zip archives into another zip archive
<diplo> Anyone here run Xerox Lasers @ work ?
<diplo> Not a cups man, but having some issues with Xeroxs wanting more memory from print jobs
<diplo> Google not helping much so far
<awilkins> Strangely, the thing that makes me want Precise the most is now the new DNS stuff
<diplo> Or a way of checking how much data cups is sending
<BigRedS> new dns stuff?
<brobostigon> !info resolvconf precise
<lubotu3> resolvconf (source: resolvconf): name server information handler. In component main, is important. Version 1.63ubuntu11 (precise), package size 52 kB, installed size 236 kB
<BigRedS> yeah, but what's changed?
<brobostigon> i dont know, myself, sorry.
<DJones> BigRedS: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/changelog.html Maybe the bottom of that page answers that
<bigcalm> popey: I selected sheriff but it thinks I picked clay. Have fun with that
<popey> do wot?
<bigcalm> Draw Something
<popey> ahh
<bigcalm> Sheesh, can't you read minds or something?
<popey> hah
<BigRedS> haha
<oimon> played draw something or a day and got annoyed at the people who cheat and the number of "words" that aren't really words but supposedly famous people in the USA
<popey> yeah, annoys me too
<popey> have you seen http://drawception.com/ ?
<oimon> great idea
<oimon> twitter login failed :(
<oimon> aha i'm in
<oimon> what's a "blue, red and lila tmnt holding a big banana"
<popey> teenage mutant ninja turtle
<Myrtti> drawception is great
<Myrtti> fortunately I have a Wacom I can hook into my machine
<Myrtti> helps a bit
<Myrtti> http://drawception.com/viewgame/XN1LZx59eM/its-a-nice-sunset-but-youd-rather-dance/
<oimon> none of my games have ended yet :)
<oimon> :(
<oimon> the guy/girl who drew the last frame of http://drawception.com/viewgame/ZODEsT1ym7/sonic-rainboom/ is excellent
<popey> davmor2 / czajkowski skype on 12.04. Click the indicator thing. does it flicker for you?
<davmor2> popey: yeap very brief redraw it look like right?
<popey> yes
<popey> now, where does that need to be filed!?
<popey> against skype itself?
<davmor2> gord: ^ I'm assuming this is an indicator issue of some sort right?
<popey> no other indicators do it
<popey> it's the application that paints it isn't it?
<davmor2> popey: no idea
<gord> do skype have their own indicator now?
<gord> or is it systray
<popey> yeah
<popey> oh, dunno
<popey> how does one tell?
<davmor2> gord: pass is there a way to tell and popey beat me to it
<AlanBell> gord: it is systray
<davmor2> gord: are there any other systray using apps?
<gord> not sure how to check in a good way, if its systray then its a skype issue
<AlanBell> you have to whitelist it, or it might be a default whitelisted systray thing
<AlanBell> matter of opinion
<AlanBell> someone should write an indicator to contain all the systray icons
<AlanBell> in fact that should have been the first indicator written
<gord> thats not how indicators work
<gord> indicators are a dbus protocol really, systray is an xwindow
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPh-3c9TqUg
<ali1234> there's a skype deb in the partner repo for precise now
<ali1234> but i still can't install it from the dash
<ali1234> also why back to two versions?
<ali1234> there's a skype-bin too now
<ali1234> or wait i see
<ali1234> metapackages i guess
<popey> skype-bin:i386 is what I'm running
<popey> works okay
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> for a couple of weeks now i got no skype indicator at all btw
<ali1234> but i did a fresh install since then, testing it now
<ali1234> still no indicator for me
<ali1234> and then it crashed
<bigcalm> I am looking forward to giving my laptop 12.04 and the SSD
<bigcalm> Actually, if skype is working, it might be ready now
<ali1234> then i tried to report the bug and got "The report belongs to a package that is not installed."
 * bigcalm sucks down the daily :)
<ali1234> skype has always worked
<ali1234> it actually works slightly less now than it did two weeks ago
<bigcalm> Skype has not always worked for me in 12.04
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'd do a fresh install though dude
<bigcalm> davmor2: will do
<bigcalm> davmor2: not sure if can go to the lug this week. I _really_ need to get work done on Thursday
<davmor2> ali1234: it only landed in precise this morning
<ali1234> the deb file is marked march 30th
<ali1234> also it is exactly the same as the oneiric deb
<ali1234> and all the others
<ali1234> if you upgraded from oneiric you kept skype installed, and it worked
<ali1234> you could also install the old deb with dpkg
<davmor2> ali1234: it's not the same as the oneiric one it is a freshly package i386 multiarch supporting version now, how exactly is it the same?
<popey> same software, different package
<davmor2> popey: ah that makes sense
<ali1234> well firstly the oneiric package was multiarch too
<ali1234> secondly, the skype binary hasn't changed since lucid
<davmor2> ali1234: nope it wasn't there were 32 and 64bit versions
<ali1234> wrong
<ali1234> there has never been a 64 bit ckype binary for linux
<ali1234> the 64 bit package only exists in pre-multiarch distros, because its the only way to install a 32 bit binary with dependencies on 32 bit libs
<davmor2> ali1234: I work on the team dealing with it,  trust me I know there was a 32bit version and then a 32bit app with a 64bit wrapper,  this is the first time it has been purely 32bit multiarch
<ali1234> jeez, no wonder it doesn't work :/
<ali1234> so tell me, how did oneiric 64 bit manage to work, if skype was not previously multiarch?
<ali1234> considering that there is *only* a 32 bit package?
<davmor2> ali1234: the 64bit version was the 32bit app with the 32bit libs installed + redirects for the app to use those libs instead of the 64bit ones not pretty
<ali1234> that's pretty much the exact definition of multiarch
<davmor2> ali1234: no multiarch can use any libs 64bit or 32bit on the same system no brute forcing
<ali1234> yeah, exactly like skype did on oneiric
<ali1234> http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/s/skype/skype_2.2.0.35-0oneiric2_i386.deb
<ali1234> dependencies: Depends: libasound2 (>> 1.0.24.1), libc6 (>= 2.4), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libqt4-dbus (>= 4:4.5.3), libqt4-network (>= 4:4.5.3), libqtcore4 (>= 4:4.5.3), libqtgui4 (>= 4:4.5.3), libstdc++6 (>= 4.2.1), libx11-6, libxext6, libxss1, libxv1
<ali1234> there is NO other skype package for oneiric
<ali1234> the only way to install that on 64 bit is by making use of multiarch libraries
<ali1234> also, that package and the new skype-bin package contains exactly the same files, the only difference is the copyright file in /usr/share/doc was moved to represent the new package name
 * MartijnVdS had a 2.1GB "whoopsie" daemon running
<MartijnVdS> Memory leaks--
 * bigcalm eyes jockey-gtk. It was a problem the last time I tried to install the proprietary drivers for the laptop's ATI card
<bigcalm> Humm, bug 804662
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 804662 in jockey (Ubuntu) "jockey-gtk crashed with TypeError in _execute_child(): execv() arg 2 must contain only strings" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804662
<bigcalm> Who had the issue with the leading edge of some letters looking weird?
<bigcalm> Getting that as well here
<bigcalm> Maybe right now wasn't the best time to start downloading things
<bigcalm> I was hoping that it being Easter break for schools, the load would be spread over the day
<OmNomDeBonBon> bigcalm: what's your predo for the game tonight?
<bigcalm> OmNomDeBonBon: what game?
<OmNomDeBonBon> Utd - Rovers
<OmNomDeBonBon> At Ewood Park.
<bigcalm> OmNomDeBonBon: footballs is something I don't follow, so have no idea :)
<bigcalm> I thought that skype was available to install via the software centre now?
<OmNomDeBonBon> bigcalm there's probably a Sky Sports app you can download.
<ali1234> not yet
<popey> i installed it today from USC
<bigcalm> OmNomDeBonBon: again, I don't follow football. So I really don't care :) Are you confusing my nick for somebody else's?
<OmNomDeBonBon> Maybe, maybe.
<ali1234> i tried to install it from the dash bookshelf thing, and no result were found
<ali1234> still the same
<ali1234> also not found in software center
<bigcalm> openjdk isn't there either
<bigcalm> How strange
<jpds> bigcalm: skype is in partner.
<bigcalm> jpds: yes, which I added but it's not showing up
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache policy skype-bin:i386
<popey> skype-bin:i386:
<popey>   Installed: 2.2.0.35-0precise2
<popey>   Candidate: 2.2.0.35-0precise2
<popey>   Version table:
<popey>  *** 2.2.0.35-0precise2 0
<popey>         500 http://archive.canonical.com/ precise/partner i386 Packages
<popey>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<popey> bah
<bigcalm> apt-get install skype does something
<bigcalm> Software Centre has no record of skype though
<popey> sudo apt-get install skype-bin:i386
<bigcalm> It's now showing up
<bigcalm> Took some effort to get that to happen. Odd
<Myrtti> http://drawception.com/viewgame/REWRTXn4YY/the-trex-is-a-gentleman-and-a-scholar/
<Myrtti> *chuckle*
<davmor2> bigcalm: USC used to do the syncing of repos before the app opened now it's all done once the app opens so there is lack when an app didn't exist now about 20-30 seconds
<davmor2> s/lack/lag
<kitsos> Hello I have a question! I am about to download Drupal and i cant understand this "To get started with Drupal, you'll need the Drupal base system files either as Drupal core or a pre-built distribution, as well as a web hosting provider."
<ikonia> directhex: the eagle has landed
<directhex> ikonia, ;o
<directhex> ikonia, and i found a decent rum! a gift from the in-laws
<ikonia> excellent, now we are getting somewhere
<ikonia> a little dissapointed approx %50 of my order is missing with "sorry out of stock" written on the order form
<ikonia> be nice if they could SORT THERE WEBSITE ORDER SYSTEM OUT !
<ikonia> THEIR
<ikonia> directhex: project "Koala" is also moving
<directhex> ikonia, so, deciphering your photo... boylan's bottling co, new jersey?
<ikonia> directhex: you've got one, yes !
<ikonia> but can you work out the others.....
<directhex> not enough data :(
<ikonia> excellent
<ikonia> then there will be a surprise at least
<directhex> hah ;p
<ikonia> your samples will be dispatched tomorrow
<ikonia> I'd like a full review
<ikonia> either that or 3 1 line good/bad
<ikonia> I've just stocked my fridge with my %50 order for chilling and tasting
<ikonia> just trying to decide on the appropriate food for such an occasion
<directhex> ikonia, have you got a domain set up w/ wordpress, for these reviews? :p
<ikonia> directhex: not for these reviews no, but I may set something up documenting my quest and subsitute and vendor failures
<ikonia> for the other 3 like minded people who exist in the planet and would go this far
<directhex> ikonia, it's the internet!
<ikonia> setting up a domain now
<directhex> ikonia, once you've got a cola blog, you can start contacting manufacturers for "review samples" :p
<ikonia> ha ha ha
<ikonia> I'm just going to use it to put presure on the one true vendor to return the product they should never have pulled
<directhex> and yes i want publishing rights on this domain
<ikonia> looking in my domain list to see if there is anything appropriate before purchasing
<ikonia> purchasing
<directhex> get a readeship, contact pepsico for an interview ;D
<ikonia> it's on !
<directhex> and red bull ag
<directhex> it's genuinely interesting to me why there's not a big enough market, on paper, to support a premium cola product in the uk
<directhex> other than fentiman's which is fake premium
<directhex> blog success -> write a book ;)
<ikonia> domain registered
<ikonia> site active in t-minus 24 hours
<popey> hahah
<ikonia> you mock the quest ?
<popey> which is the product you wish to be brought back?
<popey> oh no
 * popey is a cola fan
 * jussi hi5s ikonia for being awesome
<ali1234> http://www.wholeearthfoods.com/products/6
<ikonia> popey: then a login for you is possible, join the quest
<davmor2> what happens if you try and open shotwell on precise anyone?
<popey> hmmm
<popey> shotwell: error while loading shared libraries: libgexiv2.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<penguin42> davmor2: Opens here (although I'm in a KDE session)
<jussi> davmor2: nothing :/
<ali1234> davmor2: it opens, then ask me to import, then imports
<ikonia> popey: 12.04 ?
<popey> yes
<jussi> davmor2: not even an error
<ikonia> popey: someone had this problem yesterday
<ikonia> libgexiv2.so.1 or something needs to be linked
<ikonia> the 12.04 package changed the name so a link was missing
<davmor2> popey: now check libgexiv2-0
<jussi> ahh yes, from the terminal same as the others
<davmor2> jussi: :D
<popey> checkj what?
<popey> *check
<popey> its installed
<davmor2> popey: that it is installed
<directhex> ali1234, tried that stuff?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it's nicer than coke or pepsi :/
<directhex> ikonia, check ali1234's link. the ingredients list makes me hopeful
<ikonia> directhex: already bookmarked
<bigcalm> Am I missing something or is openjdk not in sc on 12.04?
<ikonia> although I am not holding high hopes at this time
<popey> ii  openjdk-6-jdk  6b24-1.11.1-3u OpenJDK Development Kit (JDK)
<popey> i have it installed bigcalm
 * bigcalm prods sc
<directhex> ali1234, we're starting a cola blog, due to the removal from the UK market of the last two widely distributed premium colas, Pepsi Raw and Red Bull Simply Cola. it'll be fun!
<directhex> and for someone who was predicted to fail english gcse, i can write a pretty decent blog post :p
<ikonia> directhex: I'm looking forward to your contribution
<penguin42>  'decent blog post' - that's a contradiction isn't it?
<ikonia> directhex: please find a way to do an ape reference
<directhex> penguin42, there's a reason i take upwards of 5 hours on 1 post. quality matters!
<ikonia> hunting for a base wordpress theme to have a hack on tomorrow.
<ikonia> this will be fun
<davmor2> bigcalm: is there a line at the bottom saying show technical apps?
<directhex> ikonia, okay, i found a store stocking ali1234's cola. http://www.naturalcollection.com/shop/whole-earth-organic-sparkling-cola-by-whole-earth/
<ikonia> excellent
<directhex> ikonia, i'll order a few cans, and of the ubuntu cola, and ship out half to you for sampling. we want a wide base for reviews
<popey> directhex: do they still do pepsi natural in the usa or was that stopped too?
<bigcalm> And now openjdk appears in sc
<directhex> popey, i don't know if it ever went national. i read about the test markets for it, but no further
<bigcalm> davmor2: this lag is not productive
<directhex> popey, natural has a slightly different recipe to raw, fwiw
<popey> ah
<davmor2> bigcalm: it shouldn't lag if you've opened it once
<davmor2> bigcalm: I get it straight away
<directhex> gift wrap your 90p cans of cola for only Â£3.95 each!
<Myrtti> I bet whatever bug I was having in Unity-greeter it's been fixed since and I filed my bug report for nothing...
<Myrtti> and I just should have upgraded the system
<Myrtti> phooey
<bigcalm> davmor2: fact remains that openjdk was not being returned in searches until after I closed and re-opened sc
<bigcalm> Ooo, openjdk-7-jdk - do I do it or stick with 6?
<davmor2> bigcalm: down the bottom of USC can you see where it says Hide 32 technical items or Show 32 technical items if you show them it's 5th in the list under openjdk 7's
<penguin42> directhex: I'm not a cola liker, but there are a lot of food blogs; I follow 2 chocolate ones
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes, but the technical items did not include openjdk at all
<bigcalm> Until now
<penguin42> directhex: Well actually, one chocolate and one  generic snack one (snackspot.org.uk)
<davmor2> bigcalm: whay are you doing that is different from me then? ;)
<directhex> penguin42, i blame coca cola and pepsi for the general public's antipathy towards cola as a drink
<bigcalm> davmor2: Beats me :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I refute that I've not hit you once
<bigcalm> :P
<ikonia> FYI: I'm currently drinking wild cherry pepsi
<Myrtti> aw, I don't have any May Day mead left
<davmor2> ikonia: I bet the cherry's were wild being picked to be thrown in pepsi
<directhex> davmor2, well the ribena ads show how much berries love being crushed & made into drinks
<bigcalm> The ribena ad makes me not want to drink it. Full of gleefully suicidal berries
<davmor2> bigcalm: too right, they should be manically depressed suicidal berries :D
<bigcalm> directhex: is this the error you get with minecraft? http://paste.ubuntu.com/911894/
<directhex> bigcalm, no, that looks like a basic arch mismatch JNI error
<bigcalm> Maybe I should have installed v6 instead of v7
<directhex> bigcalm, /home/iain/.minecraft/bin/natives/liblwjgl.so is 32-bit, /home/iain/.minecraft/bin/natives/liblwjgl64.so is 64-bit. question is why it's invoking the 32-bit lib
<bigcalm> Odd
<bigcalm> I called it from the cli with: java -jar minecraft.jar
<directhex> bigcalm, i don't understand java JNI semantics - it's a black magic which i'm too sane to know about
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> directhex: if you'd of said insane I'd of agreed with you but sane that's a tricky one ;)
<directhex> davmor2, JNI's unmitigated terribleness is one reason c# exists
<davmor2> directhex: haha
<bigcalm> Din dins!
<ali1234> because someone said "there's no possible way you could make it worse than java" and someone else just had to prove them wrong?
<popey> âº
<directhex> "Java's kinda great, but JNI smells like poo and wee, and swing looks like poo and wee on windows, so let's just make java with those tweaks and OMGWEREBEINGSUED"
<ikonia> I'm now official excited
 * bigcalm hugs the mountain
 * penguin42 shakes it
<popey> hehe
<StaffRingedSeal> I just love /msg nickserv set property â¥
<dogmatic69> Hi all
<MartijnVdS> \o dogmatic69
<bigcalm> popey: now watching all of the videos by Fall on Your Sword
<dogmatic69> Just got my second hand blade server off ebay. Installed ubuntu 11.10 server and all is fine till it rebooted. past POST the screen complains about the resolution or something
<dogmatic69> anyone know if I need a fancy screen for these things? its a hp DL360 G4
<bigcalm> EvilCowards LovePigs seems to have the male singer from Electric Six
 * bigcalm pays attention to the description :)
<StaffRingedSeal> I feel confused. I'm listening to Skrillex and it's actually ok.
<Azelphur> nothing wrong with skrillex?
<MartijnVdS> well, except for the "music"
 * Azelphur stabs MartijnVdS :p
 * MartijnVdS drops
<ali1234> skrillex is actually rather generic pop music
<ali1234> he just uses samples instead of distorted electric guitar
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Try listening to some Akufen.
<ali1234> that's just annoying
<Azelphur> no, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QodrSfsboFk is annoying :p
<Azelphur> although the remix in the video responses is hilariously brilliant haha
<ali1234> i get it, he thinks he's daft punk
<ali1234> however, his music is too obviously just a bunch of cut up samples and they just don't blend together well enough
<popey_> bah
<popey> stupid freenode
<diplo> evening all
<StaffRingedSeal> well, combined with eating only toast today it does make my head feel a bit weird
<StaffRingedSeal> (listening to Skrillex after midnight)
<mgdm> anyone tried that Cinammon desktop?
 * mgdm is giving it a go
<ali1234> i tried it
<ali1234> it's just gnome shell with a taskbar at the bottom
<ali1234> and you can't move it or configure it at all
<directhex> "you can't move it or configure it at all" you did say gnome shell...
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> basically gnome fallback is much better
<ali1234> or gnome classic or whatever they call it these days
<StaffRingedSeal> I actually like Unity more and more, it's even better in 12.04
<ali1234> for me it is just about usable in 12.04
<StaffRingedSeal> well it's more configurable and a bit prettier
<dogmatic69> something on 12.04b2 has crashed :/ cant resize or move windows anymore
<ali1234> that would be compiz
<dogmatic69> maybe this is the same white blocks I was talking about the other day.
<dogmatic69> ali1234: can I restart compiz or do I need to reboot
<dogmatic69> compiz --replace done it
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-03
<ikr11> anyone knows how to solve a problem with the alt and ctrl keys for a bluetooth keyboard?
<StaffRingedSeal> oh thank god I can connect to the internet before logging in to lightdm...
<StaffRingedSeal> last nights update went south a bit for me, again, unsurprisingly
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<ikonia> directhex: green for go !
<directhex> ;o
<hank3three3> I think I might be in the wrong place, but I'll ask anyway....up tioll now, the updates I have been getting for 12.04 have been opk, and havent done much damage, a few bugs have appeared, but I have reported them, but today, I had an update, and it did something to the grub, it said it couldnt install the grub, and the grubmight not work.....so I carried on, and now, after I click on the grub, I get this error message saying 'error
<hank3three3>  invalid blcklist. Press any key to continue, anybody know what is wrong and how I can get over it?
<hank3three3> sorry for the typos, fingers not working too well today
<hank3three3> sorry that should say 'blocklist.....'
<hank3three3> I seem to remember there is a channel just for betas, but I cant remember what it is
<StaffRingedSeal> #ubuntu+1 ?
<hank3three3> thanks
<hank3three3> I dont appreciate having some petty little person tell me not to bring my spelling mistakes from one channel to another, if people dont have anything important to say, stop being so petty
<ikonia> ooh dear
<AlanBell> morning all
<ikonia> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> hank3three3: is there some context for that little (and well spelled) complaint?
<AlanBell> oh you missed an apostrophe in "don't", but other than that it was pretty good :)
<hank3three3> I am just saying
<JamesTait> Gooooood moooorning all! :D
<ikonia> I can't stand people with an attitude giving incorrect information then having a tantrum when asked to clarify
<ikonia> I'm just saying though
<hank3three3> you know, its your attitude that gives ubuntu a bad name
<hank3three3> if cant say anything helpful dont say anything at all
<AlanBell> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11813952
<AlanBell> looks like this bit a few people today
<hank3three3> thanks alan, I will take a look at that now
<AlanBell> I might upgrade a non-critical desktop in a sec and see if it happens to me
<hank3three3> seems like a few people are having the same problem, how would you add that as a bug?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dwatkins> hiya
<AlanBell> hank3three3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bugs
<AlanBell> hit the report a bug link and put in the details (perhaps with a photo if convenient)
<czajkowski> gooooood day to you all
<hank3three3> I started the bug its Bug #972221 how would you take a picture of the error message page before its booted
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 972221 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "error invalid blocklist, press any key to continue......" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972221
<AlanBell> and what happens after you press the any key?
<hank3three3> it boots
<diplo> hank3three3, Mobile/Digital Camera ?
<AlanBell> add that to the bug, so it does boot fine, after complaining?
<hank3three3> yeh tried that, I get backlight problems which makes the screen look white, I'll try again though
<hank3three3> one question, and I'll have to log off to find out, but what version is the Grub after that update, anybody know?
<AlanBell> !info grub2 precise
<lubotu3`> grub2 (source: grub2): GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (dummy package). In component universe, is extra. Version 1.99-20ubuntu1 (precise), package size 2 kB, installed size 32 kB (Only available for any-i386 any-amd64 any-powerpc any-ppc64 any-sparc any-mipsel i386 kopensolaris-i386 amd64 powerpc ppc64 sparc mipsel kfreebsd-i386 kfreebsd-amd64)
<hank3three3> is there any way to update grub using the terminal, or would that break it even more
<hank3three3> ok, i'll leave it
<BigRedS> hank3three3: it depends what you mean by 'update grub'
<BigRedS> do you want to update the list of options to boot from, or upgrade the program to a new version?
<BigRedS> update-grub does the former :)
<hank3three3> oh sorry, was doing something just noticed your answers, I was just wondering, after the update, and the problem with the grub being installed, if a grub update via the terminal could fix the problem, and reading your post I think i say upgrade to new version, if that is what is needed
<StaffRingedSeal> hearing complaints elsewhere
<StaffRingedSeal> as well
<bigcalm> StaffRingedSeal: about the snow?
<hank3three3> the problem is, I dont know what caused the problem in the beginning, it said it couldnt install the grub, so was the install to new upgrade or something else
<BigRedS> well, it would nomrally have told you why it couldn't install grub
<BigRedS> and that's the important bit
<hank3three3> is there anyway to find out, I didnt notice anything about why it couldnt install
<StaffRingedSeal> no, about the grub2 problem
<hank3three3> and if I could find out, then I could add it to the bug report
<hank3three3> oh, that is a pity
<diplo> hank3three3, I'm guessing it's a regression in a fix some one has put in place
<diplo> If it's affecting other people hopefully the developer will be on it asap
<StaffRingedSeal> hank3three3, AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/972250
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 972250 in grub2 (Ubuntu) ""This GPT partition label has no BIOS Boot Partition"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<hank3three3> ooh, that isnt good, at least mine boots after the error message
<brobostigon> ok, what the thing popey said i should do a couple of weeks ago, when my eeepc wouldnt start when power is pressed.?
<DJones> brobostigon: Plug it in? :)
<DJones> Sorry, couldn't resist that one
<brobostigon> haha, very funny.
<brobostigon> i solved it anyway, reset the bios.
<popey> brobostigon: unplug, remove battery, leave it a few minutes
<popey> or that
<brobostigon> thank you popey.
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> prod MooDoo czajkowski
<brobostigon> working, :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello chap
<MooDoo> czajkowski: hello xxxx
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and davmor2
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<czajkowski> davmor2: MooDoo ello
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> morning bigcalm MooDoo czajkowski how are you all?
<bigcalm> I want sleeps
<czajkowski> great thanks
<czajkowski> you?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I knows that feeling
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm good I could do with more sleep the same as bigcalm but that is about it
<Dave2> I want sleep and a working kettle.
<brobostigon> updates to chromium in precise, :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm ok, playing around with my photography blog :)
<brobostigon> chromium-browser.
<kirrus> Dave2: isn't a working kettle a requirement of continued working? ;)
<Dave2> Well, a working kettle at home.
<Dave2> Here at work there's a hot water machine thing
 * brobostigon thanks the person, who is doing the hard work, in updating chromium.
<popey> brobostigon: that would be Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com>, send him a mail and thank him. he's a lovely chap âº
<brobostigon> popey: i will do, :) thank you.
<StaffRingedSeal> I wonder which is to blame, chromium or ubuntu for the fact that F11 doesn't make it go fullscreen
<StaffRingedSeal> I don't even know if I'm alone in my problem
<AlanBell> blame canada
<AlanBell> </south park>
<brobostigon> lol
<AlanBell> StaffRingedSeal: F11 goes fullscreen here
<StaffRingedSeal> right, so it is me
<davmor2> StaffRingedSeal: it does here on oneiric
<brobostigon> here also.
<StaffRingedSeal> :-|
<StaffRingedSeal> mine didn't in oneiric nor now in precise
<AlanBell> Wasabi peas are yummy
<diplo> They are
<AlanBell> StaffRingedSeal: try a guest session of Ubuntu (so no profile brokenness in the mix)
<diplo> Although I don't my work colleague appreciates when I eat lot's of them AlanBell
<diplo> :)
<StaffRingedSeal> that's a good point, I'll try that once I've had my tea
<StaffRingedSeal> arp arp.
<MartijnVdS> StaffRingedSeal: Oh no, the IPv4 frog
<davmor2> StaffRingedSeal: and in precise,  are you using a laptop?
<StaffRingedSeal> yup
<AlanBell> oh, chromium has those funny window buttons
<davmor2> StaffRingedSeal: is there a hardware key on f11 if so what happen is you press fn+F11
<StaffRingedSeal> nothing happens...
<StaffRingedSeal> and yes it's a hardware key
<AlanBell> in the chromium personal stuff settings in the appearance section you can turn on and off using the system titlebar and borders, does that make a difference (doesn't for me)
<StaffRingedSeal> I can also reliably crash/kill/hide chromium by trying to move it to another workspace by the topic bar
<StaffRingedSeal> I've got Use instead of Hide there
<StaffRingedSeal> and when it's on hide, F11 works
<StaffRingedSeal> s/topic bar/titlebar/
<AlanBell> ooh, ok well that is interesting isn't it
<StaffRingedSeal> so if I choose "Move to Another Workspace" it dies
<StaffRingedSeal> it's weird
<davmor2> http://imgur.com/r00rm muhahahahahahahahahahahaha
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: :)
<MooDoo> oh dear
<bigcalm> :)
<DJones> That reminds me of test we had in school many decades ago, 30 questions, big letters at the top "Read all the questions/tasks before starting to complete them", the tasks included things like count out loud to 20, stand up etc and you could tell who had read everything before starting, the last task on the bottom of page 2 was to sit still and not do anything else
<mgdm> Hehe, I've seen that one too
<MartijnVdS> DJones: did you pass the test?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: I didn't make a fool of myself, so I think yes I passed
<AlanBell> they did that with us too, the last task was to erase all previous answers
<AlanBell> the teacher handed out the papers, asked us to start, I got up and handed my paper in and walked out. Was a good 5 minutes before anyone else joined me.
<DJones> I'll have to ask some of the teacher relations I've got whether they still do that test
<oimon> wish i could play drawception on my android tablet :(
<BigRedS> we got something similar at uni. Last item was to make sure your name was filled in and then leave
<diplo> Didn't have those tests when I was at school AlanBell / DJones
<diplo> Would have been nice :)
<gord> when i was at school they gave us tests on like, maths and stuff. you guys had it easy!
<gord> maths is hard :(
<diplo> heehh
<MartijnVdS> gord: but it's also fun!
<bigcalm> Maths is fun
<bigcalm> This is why I'm a coder
<MartijnVdS> I still need to think up something to display on my 8x8 2-colour LED matrix
<davmor2> bigcalm: 0+1=?
<bigcalm> davmor2: depends upon which language and base you are using :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: space invaders
<davmor2> bigcalm: just an answer I can guaranty it'll be wrong
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: on 8x8?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: you didn't play around with VDU chars on the BBC micro then :)
<gord> MartijnVdS, mario, obviously http://vimeo.com/9928343
<MartijnVdS> gord: \o/
<bigcalm> gord: that was full of AWESOME!
 * bigcalm tickles czajkowski 
<gord> yeah... but it makes you think man if only i had a like 320x240 led display, could do actual mario! but then you start realising you might as well just get an arm board with a display chip
<MartijnVdS> but then it wouldn't be a challenge!
 * czajkowski glares at bigcalm 
<bigcalm> \o/
 * bigcalm gives czajkowski a milky bar and slithers off for lunch
<AlanBell> white chocolate is just wrong
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.koetjesreep.com/
 * davmor2 glares at czajkowski for glaring at bigcalm then realises he's meant to keep a straight face when glaring, then realises that it now looks like he is just laughing at czajkowski 
<paul_> eric has got a new one on thursday
 * MartijnVdS offers davmor2 some anti-glare coating
<davmor2> slaps MartijnVdS anti-glare coating on his head is that better now?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yeah, much less glare 8-)
<MartijnVdS> No more glaring mistakes
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> As per https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/byobu.html Byobu currently does not launch at login (toggle on)" option will cause byobu to be executed any time a terminal is opened.
<kaushal> what does it mean
<kaushal> help me understand
<popey> kaushal: by default byobu doesnt start when you ssh to a machine running byobu
<popey> that option will "toggle" (i.e. switch) it on
<popey> so then when you ssh in, byobu will start
 * davmor2 loves Ubuntu's seemingly non existant freezes.....92 updates from last night
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> and that's just libreoffice 8-)
<kaushal> popey: ah ok
<kaushal> popey: so it means its on remote server ?
<popey> no
<kaushal> i was under the impression it was on my desktop
<popey> it could be on any system, local or remote
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> so when i click on gnome-terminal
<kaushal> i type Byobu
<kaushal> am i doing it correctly ?
<davmor2> kaushal: you are reading the Ubuntu Server Documentation that is why it is talking about servers
<popey> yeah, that will work
<kaushal> kaushal@kaushal-laptop:~$ byobu
<kaushal> so i run that way
<czajkowski> davmor2: 94 here
<popey> 171 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<popey> :D
<kaushal> popey: correct me if i am doing wrong
<kaushal> davmor2: please suggest
<popey> 13:41:48 < popey> yeah, that will work
<davmor2> czajkowski: fictional freezes
<popey> kaushal: you're not doing anything wrong
<czajkowski> indeed
<kaushal> popey: ok
<czajkowski> davmor2: it would be nice if they left it for a week or so with no updates so they could fix issues and people could just report bugs.
<czajkowski> there doesn't seem to be a time when there aren't any updates happening
<popey> uhm
<davmor2> czajkowski: don't be daft fix them on the fly you know thats the way to do it
<BigRedS> czajkowski: isn't that what's asked for by several people every release?
<popey> nothing stopping you reporting bugs
<BigRedS> "Don't do anything new this release, just fix the bugs"
<popey> thats mostly what we are doing BigRedS
<BigRedS> and then it's pointed out that bugs are normally fixed with new things
<davmor2> popey: apart from apport saying I can't report this bug you need to update x ,y, z
<popey> yeah, which is great
<BigRedS> yeah, I've mostly given up on reporting bugs through that now
<popey> saves us having a zillion useless bugs
<BigRedS> I'm never up to date enough to do it anyway
<davmor2> popey: I agree but it is annoying still
<popey> so update âº
<AlanBell> I wish the voices in my head were loud enough to drown out the sound of children on holiday
<BigRedS> yeah, I keep meaning to set up unattended upgrades
<BigRedS> the GUI process requires more clicks than I have patience
<davmor2> AlanBell: just start an arguement with then that you know will go on all day :)
<BigRedS> so it prompts me, I click 'ok' a few times and then get distracted by something else
<popey> i use apt-get, almost never use update-manager
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm not in the habit of thinking about upgrading every time I boot the thing
<BigRedS> so I only upgrade if there's a bug that's probably fixed or if I manage to go through the whole of the gui thing
<DJones> Heh, expect more lost drivers getting stuck down country roads http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17599701
<DJones> "Leap year bug"
<bigcalm> Not like it doesn't happen every 4 years
<bigcalm> Oh, wait...
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
 * penguin42 is confused about why a map system is affected by the date
<MartijnVdS> it's not the map system
<MartijnVdS> it's the GPS
<directhex> GPS relies on quantum physics.
<directhex> and also accurate time measurements as part of that
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: But why should GPS be confused by the date? I know they rely on exact timing relative to the satellites but *surely* that's not related to calendar time (!)
<ali1234> it isn't
<AlanBell> nothing to do with the GPS circuits I expect
<davmor2> bigcalm: Motorola got back to me 2Q of 2012 for Xoom ICS update
<dogmatic69> How can I configure wifi via terminal?
<ali1234> right. it's just the usual poor UI programming
<ali1234> the GPS will be a black box anyway
<ali1234> just emits NMEA or something, no programming required
<MartijnVdS> usually, yes
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: iwlist, iwconfig. If you google almost exactly your question you'll probably get a few tutorials
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: NOOOOO
<MartijnVdS> iwlist/iwconfig are Old & Busted
<BigRedS> Oh
<BigRedS> what's new and shiny?
<MartijnVdS> "iw" is the new cool tool
<BigRedS> haha
<MartijnVdS> but you won't be able to connect to WPA networks with it
<BigRedS> I was just wondering if it was like ipconfig to ip
<MartijnVdS> wpasupplicant
<MartijnVdS> also, /etc/network/interfaces has options to do that for you
<BigRedS> er, ifconfig to ip
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: the old wifi APIs aren't good enough (no N support, for instance)
<penguin42> if you've got it configured in networkmanager you can probably bring it up with nm-cli
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "iw" fixes that
<BigRedS> I've got half a set of scripts for replacing network-manager knocking around somewhere, but they rely on old and busted technology :(
<balor> czajkowski, Does the U1 music store work in .ie and can I just put the app on my mother;s Android phone and "have it work"?
<czajkowski> balor: it does work but it's a different shop
<czajkowski> and which appp ?
<balor> czajkowski, the U1 music app on the Google Play App Store
<czajkowski> ok let me see
<balor> thanks
<czajkowski> seeing as I'm sitting in the garden in castleconnell
 * balor is in Dublin right now
<gord> balor, you can't purchase music from the android app
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's a 3 month window starting this month. Better than nothing :)
<gord> it'll let you listen to any music you have in u1 though
<davmor2> bigcalm: and direct from Motorola Europe
<czajkowski> balor: what gord said  it's for streaming
<czajkowski> gord: aye
<ali1234> gord: is that because you don't want to pay 30% to google?
<czajkowski> balor: aye
<ali1234> or simply because it'snot implenented yet?
<balor> Fun.  It looks like there's no legal music purchase service on Android/Linux in .ie
<czajkowski> balor: ask in #ubuntuone
<gord> i've no idea tbh, the u1 store is a website technically, so i guess it would be possible to implement - never actually asked
<davmor2> balor: Amazon mp3 maybe?
<penguin42> balor: So you walk over the border?
<MartijnVdS> 7digital has more "country" sites than U1MS uses
<MartijnVdS> so I get the EU store, even though the 7Digital "Netherlands" site has more music to slel me
<MartijnVdS> sell me*
 * davmor2 has a set up tp plugs and now can use ps3 for love film streaming woohoo!
<MartijnVdS> TP plugs?
<davmor2> well hopefully I need to test it in the evening to be sure
<MartijnVdS> are you cornholio?
<MartijnVdS> you need tp?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=10551 this kinda thing
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> homeplug :)
<MartijnVdS> powerline ethernet
 * MartijnVdS just put gbit all around the house
<MartijnVdS> (PS3 speaks gbit!)
<diplo> Mines on a gigabit network at home as well
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: daft thing I found out with the ps3, is if the wifi signal drops by 5% it automagically stalls whatever activity it is doing till it's back up unless there is a game in the system D'oh
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: if I try to stream HD video over wifi, it just stutters a lot
<MartijnVdS> gbit: no problems
<gord> 100mbit should work fine for hd video ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Exactly what I was having you get at most 30second playback
<MartijnVdS> gord: I like to be prepared.
<MartijnVdS> gord: Especially with 500/500 fibre on its way
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you know the ps3 won't do holographic right :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I have more devices than just a PS3 ;)
<AlanBell> my broadband speed has been uncapped apparently
<bigcalm> It's been raining for the past 4 hours. The ground is going to be a little damp. Can hear somebody mowing!
<gord> wish be would do fibre already
<bigcalm> AlanBell: your speed has been uncapped?
<bigcalm> How does that work?
<MartijnVdS> gord: move to the Netherlands.. small towns get fibre first :)
<gord> MartijnVdS, with have fibre in my town, my preferred isp however does not offer a fibre package yet
<MartijnVdS> gord: FttC or FttH?
<gord> the rest of them have dumb caps, i can't be bothered thinking about how much i've downloaded
<gord> to cabinet
<AlanBell> bigcalm: it is FTTC and I am now on 80:20 I think
<MartijnVdS> We get FttH
<bigcalm> AlanBell: there's still a limit though, no?
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1873019607.png my upstream bandwidth has gone up quite a bit, but I think I will try connecting the laptop direct to the router
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, still a limit, but not an artificial one
<bigcalm> AlanBell: aha, got you. Much better :)
<directhex> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1873032347.png
<bigcalm> Gah, school holidays are draining away my bandwidth
<directhex> i remember DACS limiting my dialup to 28k...
<AlanBell> oh I was stuck behind a DACS
<MartijnVdS> 2012-06-22 is the latest estimate for my fibre install date
<bigcalm> October seems my cable connection upgrade
 * bigcalm yays a bit
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the fibre people are VERY slow
<gord> fibre to the home takes much longer to do
<MartijnVdS> I can see the fibre sticking out of the pavement 7 floors below
<gord> and is much more expensive
<MartijnVdS> It has my address on it
<MartijnVdS> gord: they're going to install it in every house in .nl before 2016ish
<MartijnVdS> except some farms in the middle of nowhere
<bigcalm> Working from home = day time showers \o/
 * bigcalm gets clean
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, naked computing
<penguin42> bigcalm: And to think in that ---v  window there is a discussion about the problem of receiving deliveries when half dressed
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well, if you can see the fibre, go and splice it and plug in :-)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Are they using GPONS or the like ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: GPONS? What's that?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's an architecture of large fibre systems that's cheaper than proper full switched systems
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: we get 2 fibres to every house, that go straight to a cabinet/POP a few km away
<MartijnVdS> (so home <-> POP is point to point)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh I'm not sure, but I think it's about simplifying what's in the cabinet
<MartijnVdS> they built entire buildings to house the pops
<MartijnVdS> not just cabinets
<penguin42> hmm, wonder why
<MartijnVdS> apparently, gpon implies a shared connection
<MartijnVdS> and those have a bad name (cable = shared = contention during peak hours.. we have LOTS of cable internet users)
<MartijnVdS> also, a fibre from every home to the POP sounds future-proof to me
<Azelphur> I just stumbled upon this...why is there no source code :( http://design.canonical.com/2010/09/getting-physical/
<AlanBell> because it barely exists
<Azelphur> barely exists > not existing, the video looks cool
<ali1234> hmm
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~nuthinking I don't see anything that looks like it would be that code
<ali1234> who has used ubuntu to burn an iso image recently?
<AlanBell> me
<Azelphur> he clearly likes blah
<ali1234> the dialogue is confusing
<AlanBell> right click the .iso, select write to disk
<ali1234> http://imagebin.org/206554
<ali1234> yeah then you see this
<ali1234> iso: 14.4GB, disc: 9.8GB free
<ali1234> it's a blank disc that i just unwrapped
<ali1234> it should have 25GB free
<ali1234> i assume that it means there will be 9.8GB free *after* writing the image
<ali1234> but that is just confusing and stupid
<ali1234> it makes me think the image won't fit
<AlanBell> I have only used CDs
<ali1234> i assume CDs do the same thing?
<ali1234> just with smaller numbers
<AlanBell> shouldn't make much difference, but generally I am burning a CD sized image onto a CD
<ali1234> so, do CDs do the same thing?
<AlanBell> so I don't see the 50% thing
<ali1234> what do you see?
<ali1234> "iso 700mb, disc, 50mb free"
<ali1234> is that dialogue part of brasero?
<AlanBell> ok, yeah I see the same thing
<ali1234> ok bug report incoming
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202012-04-03%2016:36:08.png
<ali1234> bug 542019
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 542019 in brasero (Ubuntu) "Confusing disk space when burning CD image" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/542019
<davmor2> bigcalm: april-july for us :)
<paulf> i been having some issues with brasero burnign drv/rw and space issues
<paulf> hope it gets fixed and better
<bittin> promised to read questions for 5-800 geeks
<Azelphur> ?
<MooDoo> bittin: you in the right channel?
<bittin> MooDoo, maybe
<MooDoo> bittin: lol ok :D
<shauno> OT question; renewing a passport, is the 'supporting documentation' just the previous passport?  I'm going round in circles with this :/
<AlanBell> shauno: yes
<AlanBell> I got my new passport back last week
<shauno> silly site just keeps telling me how important 'supporting documentation' is but forgets to mention what they want  heh
<ali1234> ring htem up
<ali1234> they are suprisingly helpful
<shauno> eh, they close at midday here :/
<shauno> "Open Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays from 9.00am to 12.30pm thereafter."  I want that job!
<shauno> I did find out that I can travel to/from uk/ireland on an expired passport tho.  that came in handy earlier this year.
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have configured WIFI ADSL Router using WPA2-AES encryption method
<kaushal> is there a way to check on the client system ?
<kaushal> what encryption method has been used ?
<kaushal> iwconfig and sudo iw dev wlan0 link does not show encryption method
<bigcalm> kaushal: right click the network connection icon
<kaushal> Any other way around ?
<bigcalm> Click Connection Information
<kaushal> WPA/WPA2
<bigcalm> Other than that, I don't know sorry :)
<popey> kaushal: nm-tool
<davmor2> kaushal: click on edit connections... click on the wireless tab.... click on the name of the connection... click on edit and then look at the security tab
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/913250/  eg
<kaushal> popey: ok
<kaushal> popey: also is there a way to see if my wlan0 is 802.11 a/b/gn ?
<kaushal> 802.11 a/b/g/n
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: iw wlan0 link
<MartijnVdS> (it shows if the current network is a/b/g or n)
<AlanBell> !info precise grub2
<lubotu3`> 'grub2' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, oneiric, oneiric-backports, oneiric-proposed, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, unstable
<AlanBell> !info grub2 precise
<lubotu3`> grub2 (source: grub2): GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (dummy package). In component universe, is extra. Version 1.99-20ubuntu1 (precise), package size 2 kB, installed size 32 kB (Only available for any-i386 any-amd64 any-powerpc any-ppc64 any-sparc any-mipsel i386 kopensolaris-i386 amd64 powerpc ppc64 sparc mipsel kfreebsd-i386 kfreebsd-amd64)
<AlanBell> hmm, do I accept this update or wait for another
 * AlanBell updates
<penguin42> I don't suppose there are any MIPS guys here at the moment are they and can give me an example encoding of an instruction?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: MIPS is _weird_
 * MartijnVdS looked at OpenWRT binaries
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It's not that odd is it?
<penguin42> it's one of the simplest encodings on the planet isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Uhm.. yes.. but I'm used to x86 asm :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so it's strange _to me_
<brobostigon> pub dig, that is on ch5 right now, has been to my local, so i might be seen, :(
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: If you think MIPS is weird, try to look at an Itanium assembly
<popey> i used to quite enjoy a bit of 8086 asm
<popey> although preferred z80 and 6502
<popey> in line assembler in BBC Basic was fun
 * penguin42 has done most
<penguin42> popey: Heck yes, I wrote tons and tons of that as a kid
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I'd rather not
 * penguin42 is just writing an android frontend to binutils as a disassembler and I'm just trying to get one or two instructions of each to check
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you have a working mips binary + mips binutils?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: (i.e. you can get a proper disassemble)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: No working MIPS binary to hand - I guess I could grab one
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: get a random package from openwrt..
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Ubuntu and VNC on EC2 - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4558
<penguin42> I do have the disassembler
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah yes I could
<dogmatic69> http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Host-Your-Own-Domain-With-Bind9-on-Ubuntu-49585.shtml
<dogmatic69> see the first command in the example... sudo passwd root :O
<AlanBell> 5 year old article too
 * bittin is watching  è±ãããã®åãã¡ã¸ ã¤ã±ã¡ã³âãã©ãã¤ã¹
<bigcalm> bittin: that's easy for you to say
<daftykins> that's a whole lotta blank
<daftykins> sigh at all the pesky olympics jazz that's already flooding the airwaves and so on
<hamitron> well, hope some people are enjoying it.... cost us enough
<daftykins> ;)
 * popey spidey sense goes bing
<popey> hello _2E0BXQ M6LJD Lee[__]
<daftykins> 0o
<Azelphur> hmm, spout wants me to give them an SFTP account so they can mirror on my server, they have some really odd ways of setting things up
<hamitron> real men don't use mirrors, they just have engines
<popey> /opme/25
<popey> bah
<bigcalm> Press alt+f4 for ops!
<daftykins> ...
<bigcalm> Join #1,000 for ops!
<bigcalm> The , bug might have been mIRC only
 * AlanBell finishes filling in answers to http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
<Azelphur> Yea, really odd
<Azelphur> for a mirror they want mongodb that's using up like 2GB of RAM (Although they say it'll scale down?) and they want SFTP too :S
<Azelphur> this doesn't seem normal for a mirror, any comments?
<ali1234> mirror of what?
<Azelphur> spout
<ali1234> what is it?
<Azelphur> a minecraft fork
<directhex> Azelphur: push mirroring?
<Azelphur> directhex: yea, that's what I expected, they seem to have some real weird setup involving PHP and serving files directly from a database :S
<ali1234> why does that even need a mirror?
<Azelphur> ali1234: big files, lots of downloads?
<ali1234> minecraft? big?
<Azelphur> yes?
<directhex> people always expect minecraft to be small & lightweight
<directhex> it needs gigs o' ram!
<ali1234> the source code is only a couple of mb though
<directhex> even in a real programming language it'd need gigs o' ram
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/GDe47t1y is the conversation I had btw
<ali1234> we're not talking about running a server
<Azelphur> ali1234: nah we're talking about mirroring files
<ali1234> you are providing the resources, you make the rules
<Azelphur> yea I suppose so
<directhex> i'd just say no tbh.
<Azelphur> I mean I just don't wanna seem like an ass, is it normal for all these dependencies for a mirror?
<Azelphur> MongoDB, PHP, SFTP access being the main things
<daftykins> Azelphur: are they asking for human sacrifice?
<daftykins> ah
<ali1234> no it's not normal at all
<daftykins> close enough
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> i still don't understand what they want to mirror
<directhex> not remotely normal for a file mirror. reasonably normal for a site mirror if their site is written with mongodb and php
<ali1234> yeah, i'm assuming file mirror
<Azelphur> yea, file mirror
<directhex> and SFTP has nothing in common with FTP. that'd be FTPS
<directhex> yes the naming is awesome
<Azelphur> indeed, I know
<ali1234> it's not worth arguing though
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> trying to help them, but the deps are a bit crazy
<Azelphur> as I say MongoDB for some reason decides to eat huge amounts of RAM if there is any free
<daftykins> OM NOM NOM
<Azelphur> on my box it was eating up 2GB of RAM, it's apparently supposed to scale down depending on available free RAM, but I really don't see how that's a sensible setup
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Open Standards Open Opportunities - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/04/03/open-standards-open-opportunities/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=open-standards-open-opportunities
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Looking Towards Ubuntu 12.04 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/03/looking-towards-ubuntu-12-04/
<directhex> Azelphur: nosql tends to be a bit batshit insane
<Azelphur> directhex: haha, I noticed
<directhex> the preferred term is "bonghits"
 * AlanBell likes the nosql concept
<daftykins> lovely response from Fasthosts today regarding a client's email setup and his inability to email his gf
<daftykins> "Unfortunately Spamrats have blocked our shared IP address due to the way in which reverse DNS is configured on our shared mail platform. We are currently addressing this with our engineers to see if there is any way this can be resolved. As these potential changes would have to be made globally across our network we are unable to ascertain if a resolution is possible and if so how long this would take to implement."
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> Time to move email providers
<daftykins> not really an option
<daftykins> i've told the client he has to use his gmail account for now :D
<daftykins> i won't expect he'll be chuffed XD
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Open Source Software and Security - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/04/03/open-source-software-and-security/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=open-source-software-and-security
<Seeker`> popey: Happy popeday!
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-04
<ali1234> ok how do i erase a blu ray rewritable disc?
 * hamitron listens with interest
<hamitron> ali1234, did you find out elsewhere?
<ali1234> according to a random forum post k3b can do it
<ali1234> i reported a bug against brasero, which claims to do it, then doesn't
<ali1234> k3b also failed to format it
<ali1234> then it crashed
<ali1234> apparently you don't need to erase blu ray, you just overwrite it
<ali1234> we shall see
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> o/
<CyborgSmurf> Hi, how do I compile a tar.gz file?
<Azelphur> you don't compile a .tar.gz file, a .tar.gz is an archive
<Azelphur> much like a zip, or a rar.
<CyborgSmurf> Azelphur: so what do I do with it?
<Azelphur> how am I supposed to know? I can't see whats in it o.O
<Azelphur> extract the files?
<Azelphur> lol
<CyborgSmurf> Azelphur: okay to be more specific, it is a rDDrace mod for teeworlds...
<CyborgSmurf> Azelphur: and yes, I have extracted it
<Azelphur> according to it's github, that mod is deprecated and not supported anymore and you should use a different thing?
<CyborgSmurf> Azelphur: so it doesn't work?
<Azelphur> no idea if it works, but the developer says not to use it any more
<Azelphur> CyborgSmurf: https://github.com/ravomavain/rDDRace
<CyborgSmurf> Azelphur: bummer. Okay so now I have the XXL...mod instead. I have extracted it, now what do I do? There are no descriptions in the readme file
<Azelphur> can you give me the link? I'll take a look
<CyborgSmurf> https://github.com/XXLTomate/XXLDDRace/downloads
<Azelphur> type "make build" in terminal
<Azelphur> that may get it
<CyborgSmurf> how do I do "make build"? (new at this)
<Azelphur> in a terminal, in the same directory that you extracted it to
<CyborgSmurf> hmm... It says make: ./bam: Command not found make: *** [clean] Error 127
<Azelphur> CyborgSmurf: no idea then, it doesn't build like most things do, perhaps there's some info in it's docs/ folder, or some documentation on it's website you could find/read
<CyborgSmurf> Azelphur: thanks alot anyway :)
<Azelphur> yw
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Quick Ubuntu Accomplishments Update - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/04/quick-ubuntu-accomplishments-update/
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<StaffRingedSeal> mm
<AlanBell> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> moo
<JamesTait> There's snow day like Wednesday - good morning all! :D
<popey> Morning
<popey> got a kinect as a present, plugged in and xbox has died â¹
<christel> happy birthday popey :)
<diplo> heh happy bday popey and I've heard of that lot's before
<TheOpenSourcerer> happy birthday popey is it a big one?
<diplo> It's why I held off getting one
<popey> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a295277/kinect-breaking-older-xbox-360-models.html
<popey> thanks everyone :D
<MooDoo> Happy birthday popey :D
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Yay, sleet
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm
<MooDoo> ehite bank hols?
<bigcalm> And the wind is driving it sideways
<MooDoo> glad i'm in the car and not on the motorbike!
 * Laney has to get n the bike in a sec
<Laney> :(
<bigcalm> Humm, my machine didn't like being hybernated 3 nights in a row
<bigcalm> Or hibernated
<gord> when i suspend my machine for the night, i will now yell "entering hyberspace!"
<MooDoo> i never hibernate....
<sagaci> I've never used hibernate or suspend on ubuntu
<sagaci> I'm quite ok to reboot
<oimon> popey, how broken?
<oimon> flames coming out?
<popey> red ring
<czajkowski> popey: happy birthday!
<popey> thanks âº
<MartijnVdS> popey: Happy birthday!
<MooDoo> bloomin eck it's my birthday next week :S
<DJones> \o/ The real Myrtti is back
<Myrtti> :-(
<Myrtti> I liked being a seal
<Myrtti> seals are nice
<bigcalm> That reminds me of a rude joke
<bigcalm> But it's not for here
<Myrtti> spare me, I had a rude awakening with a locksmith ringing the door bell and coming in with master key to check my intercom
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> So much for privacy
<bigcalm> in your own home
<MooDoo> well the government decided not to snoop of your internet access didn't they ;)
<MooDoo> what more do you want lol
<gord> merry popeymass to all
<popey> bless you
<bigcalm> Achoo
<bigcalm> popey: happy old day :)
<gord> i checked, no one really interesting was born today.. robert downey jr and david blane is your lot really
<bigcalm> Heh
<oimon> i seem to be addicted to drawception, thanks popey...i don't even have a graphics tablet either
<czajkowski> gord: to start a pm in xchat do you just /msg usernick ?
<gord> czajkowski, yup, or right click their name and "open query window"
<czajkowski> gord: thansk
<bigcalm> czajkowski: what has driven you to x-chat?
<czajkowski> not me
<czajkowski> just trying to help someone out
<gord> bigcalm, its going to be horrible in wolverhampton tomorrow isn't it? :(
<MooDoo> gord: rain
<dwatkins> We had snow yesterday here in Edinburgh, it's just drizzly and windy now.
<diplo> We had sun yesterday for much of the day, then a little drizzle last night. Grey but cold out there now and really looks like a down pour on it's way
<MooDoo> diplo: was a downpour here this morning.
<diplo> More tea!
<MooDoo> ooooo it's actually snowing in nottingham
<diplo> Wonder whether I need to put weight back on, fed up of feeling cold
<diplo> :P
<MooDoo> diplo: isn't 25 stone enough? ;)
<diplo> Was close at one point
<bigcalm> gord: it's always horrible in Wolverhampton
<bigcalm> gord: bring a brolly, or a decent coat
<bigcalm> Out the window this morning: http://instagr.am/p/I_NpojLeaY/
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrrro
<davmor2> MooDoo: 'Ow am ya mucka?
<davmor2> bigcalm: early night tonight then?
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin mate.....
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes. Will be off by 9 or 9.30
<bigcalm> And good morning
<bigcalm> And I'll be eating at home more going out
<bigcalm> Pennies are tight
<davmor2> bigcalm: you want me to set an alarm so you don't stay all night :D
<bigcalm> :P
<gbyers_> everyone else sees the error message of vlc on the stream
<bigcalm> Wonder what that was about
<oimon> popey, did you buy your xbox from a real shop?
<oimon> or ebay
<dogmatic69> Hi all, I have set up a server at home for php dev, and installed bind9 on it. I set my pc to use the dev server as the DNS but /etc/resolv.conf is reset on reboot.
<dogmatic69> where is the permanent place to do this?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: if you're doing local dev, it would be simpler just to edit /etc/hosts
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: running your own DNS can be a little ott
<dogmatic69> how so?
<bigcalm> Erm, sudo nano -w /etc/hosts
<bigcalm> ?
<dogmatic69> how is it simpler
<dogmatic69> using /etc/hosts requires changing for each site. I use something.dev
<bigcalm> You don't have to worry about setting up DNS entries and the faff that can entail
<dogmatic69> with the dns I have *.dev caught and served through the dev sever and anything else passed on to a proper dns
<bigcalm> Sure, but it's not that much work
<dogmatic69> there is one dns entry, its all set up and working.
<bigcalm> Have a look at resolvconf
<bigcalm> (to answer your question)
<JGJones> /etc/hosts - you just put in a line like so 10.0.0.1 something.dev something2.dev something3.dev
<bigcalm> There's more than one way to strangle a budgie
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: I thought the DNS would be a pain, was the second time I have tried setting it up. took about 1h and its all good now, much less work than /etc/hosts in the long run. :)
<bigcalm> Really?
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<dogmatic69> i have been using /etc/hosts for years, and now has 100's of lines
<dogmatic69> its a mess
<bigcalm> Ones mileage may vary :)
<JGJones> when a hammer won't do, there's always a mallet ;-)
<dogmatic69> :)
<bigcalm> I keep my hosts file quite organised, works for me
<dogmatic69> also, I will be changing the router dns to use the dev server so I can access the *.dev sites from any computer in the house
<dogmatic69> with /etc/hosts that means maintaining on each computer
<JGJones> no no you're making it too simple now! I demand that you use /etc/hosts and rsync!
<dogmatic69> :D
 * dogmatic69 used rsync for the first time yesterday
<bigcalm> I think it might be lunch time
<dogmatic69> no, 1min
<bigcalm> Damn you!
<DJones> bigcalm: You work from home, anytime is lunchtime
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: awww :)
<bigcalm> Right, now it's lunch time
<bigcalm> DJones: that may be the case, but I still try and have structure in my day
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to disable the retarded windows like error thing in 12.04
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: poke popey
<dogmatic69> I liked 10.10, when things crashed they just closed and you were free to open it again. now you have to confirm error reports and lame problem detection windows
<dogmatic69> besides the fact that every time it says 'cant submit error, you running weird apps'
<MartijnVdS> I think disabling apport would work
<MartijnVdS> check /etc/default/apport
<davmor2> bigcalm: pennies tighter, that be a wedding in the near future then :D
<davmor2> popey: Hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy dear popey, hippo birdy 2ewes
 * diplo phones asylum for davmor2 
<DJones> diplo: I think its a zoo he needs, not an asylum
<diplo> :D
<dogmatic69> does anyone know what file this is changing http://tinyurl.com/cafkwbm
<dogmatic69> I need to do that in terminal :/
<dwatkins> Do what, exactly, dogmatic69? There are several options there.
<diplo> resolv.conf
<diplo> ?
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: change the dns
<dogmatic69> diplo: resolv.conf is wiped on reboot
<shauno> it should be going via resolvconf, and dropping something under /etc/resolvconf/
<dwatkins> the DNS what, server used?
<dogmatic69> besides, that box does not use resolv.conf
<dwatkins> it should be coming from your DHCP server ;)
<shauno> (man 8 resolvconf, the resolv.conf file is autogenerated from a pile of files now)
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: I am with sky and have a lame router, cant change the dns on it
<diplo> dogmatic69, http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man8/resolvconf.8.html
<dwatkins> ah ok dogmatic69
<diplo> For maverick but I'm guessing still the same ( I've not done it this way )
<dogmatic69> diplo: been reading lots of man pages, cant see how that helps
<diplo> They have either added or i didn't know about it dns-nameservers into the interfaces file
<davmor2> dogmatic69: is the system you want using this dns configured in network manager to use the dns on the server or the dns given it by dhcp?  if it is dhcp then it might be getting the routers dns setting not the server if that makes sense
<diplo>   dns-nameservers 192.168.3.45 192.168.8.10
<diplo> Under eth0
<diplo> Or which ever card
<dogmatic69> ye, I added that to /etc/networing/interfaces and it does nothing
<dogmatic69> after the change to the box i pased, /etc/networking/interfaces is blank
<dogmatic69> so that is not it
<diplo> Could try in #ubuntu-server ?
<diplo> Guys may have more of an idea on cli
<diplo> Not had to do much else than resolv.conf before I'm afraid so haven't come across this issue
<dogmatic69> cool, will give them a go
<bigcalm> Goodness me, I need sleep
<gord> you work from home, declare lunchtime cancelled in favour of nap time
<bigcalm> I would have, if I hadn't just returned from lunch
<bigcalm> Yay for long weekend, boo for short weeks. I have too much to do
<bigcalm> I'm not staying out all night tonight, so hopefully won't be a zombie tomorrow
<gord> pretty sure you said that last time
<bigcalm> Yep :)
<bigcalm> It's true this time though
<gord> suuuure
<gord> how would you prefer me to mock you tomorrow? "i tooooooooooold you so!" or just some sort of i told you so dance
<bigcalm> Haha
<christel> is it pub o clock yet?
<bigcalm> A dance please
<bigcalm> christel: is it 8pm somewhere in the world?
<christel> dunno, is that how pub o clock is determined?
<bigcalm> Why stick to just one timezone?
<dogmatic69> bah. now my ssh is broken
<dogmatic69> ssh to a server is not picking up my pub key, this was fine yesterday. -v option just shows it skipping past all the keys
<dogmatic69> anything I could look for?
<directhex> -vvv
<meet> will fifa 12 work on ubuntu through wine?
<DJones> meet: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=24481
<DJones> Seems like it should work, but as ever, everybodys systems can be different, so what works for one person, might not work for another
<sagaci> DJones: that's the beauty of wine
<bigcalm> Getting old
<bigcalm> We're now members of the National Trust
<MooDoo> bigcalm: how old?
<bigcalm> I'm 33 this year, she's 39 end of this month
<MooDoo> 33 pah! i'm 40 a week on sunday :S
<bigcalm> Oops, she's 40 at the end of the month
<bigcalm> That could have got me into trouble :)
<MooDoo> heheh
<MooDoo> my wife's birthday is same day so i can't forget lol
<bigcalm> I still haven't sorted out a _fantastic_ present :S
<bigcalm> Got a couple of things and we're travelling to Northern Ireland
<diplo> bigcalm, Trouble I doubt ? A kiss maybe ?
<diplo> Women like being called younger do they not
<MartijnVdS> "Only 0x28!"
<bigcalm> diplo: heh
<bigcalm> diplo: she hates it when she is asked for proof of age
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> Dropbox just increased my storage space
<bigcalm> And I got an OSN about it!
<Myrtti> my shell provider just installed ecryptfs-utils on the server I run irssi on â¥
<Myrtti> now I just need to figure it out.
<davmor2> MooDoo: how long did it take to find a woman who would look at you who had the same birthday?
<bigcalm> Aww, bit mean that
<MooDoo> davmor2: she can see????
<MooDoo> davmor2: get this then, my son's birthday is 10 09 08 :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: also my son and daughter have the same birthday too
<MooDoo> so only 2 birthdays to remember in our house :S
<davmor2> MooDoo: you just set up this up so you could remember birthdays didn't you
<MooDoo> davmor2: er yeah :) lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm a toy boy, she's 20 mins older than me :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: haha nice
<bigcalm> Yay for toy boys
<bigcalm> 7 years and 1 month between us :D
<MooDoo> :D
<Myrtti> crib robbery
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> The older you get, the less it matters
<MooDoo> yup
<popey> Yo
<bigcalm> It lives!
<diplo> It's slightly tipsy ?
<diplo> :P
<davmor2> popey: hippo birdy dude
<popey> thanks davmor2 !
<bigcalm> popey: Hayley told me off
<popey> haha
<Laney> http://maps.stamen.com/watercolor/#13/51.5002/-0.1249
<Laney> rather nice
<bigcalm> Funky
<dogmatic69> just after I reboot my server I cant ssh in, I get pub key denied. after a few minutes it works
<dogmatic69> any idea what could be going on?
<dwatkins> I concurr, Laney :)
<MooDoo> ssh not started at the time your trying to ssh in?
<MooDoo> fully
<dogmatic69> how long does it take to start?
<dogmatic69> it was about 5 minutes
<Oli> dogmatic69: Can you log in via password within that time?
<dogmatic69> Oli: like a good server admin, that is disabled :)
<dwatkins> Perhaps the firewall only starts fully after everything else, and before that it's blocked the port
<Oli> dogmatic69: Sure I wouldn't suggest leaving it on but it might help work out what's going on.
<dogmatic69> Oli: before it was turned off, i belive it was working with pwd login
<dogmatic69> believe*
<Oli> dogmatic69: or making a secondary user that can't really do anything but log in, for testing.
<Oli> dogmatic69: is the home under a different filesystem from /? Or encrypted?
<dogmatic69> hmm, its encrypted
<Oli> dogmatic69: you might benefit from moving your ssh key out into an unencrypted part. The wiki has a good solution: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/Keys#Troubleshooting
<dogmatic69> Oli: which home were you talking about?
<dogmatic69> ah, that is when it started working... when I took the kb and logged onto the actual server
<dogmatic69> that unlocked the home folder.
<Oli> Yup. Move your key out so SSH can access it and everything should start working :)
<dogmatic69> nice, thanks
<dogmatic69> I will try that one out
<popey> hmmmm
<MartijnVdS> hmmmmm?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Things to make you go "hmmmmm"?
<bigcalm_laptop> Evenin' all from Wolves LUG
<daftykins> Wolves?
<Seeker`> tis a popey !
<madpup> Hi, can a 8400gs power a 3d desktop at 1080p?
<popey> madpup: should do
<daftykins> madpup: yeah, no problem. not so sure about HD playback on top of that though ;D
<madpup> Cheers Popey/ dafty
<madpup> need some cash so im flogging my 560ti and have a old gfx card to tide me over untill cash starts to come in again
<madpup> Popey are you still using your Viglen mpc-l?
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i run a 560Ti back home
<popey> madpup: nope
<popey> well, I'm using it to consume space in a drawer
<madpup> oh i just remembered you helped me get linux onto mine one years ago, hope i said 'thanks' at the time ;)
 * bigcalm_laptop slurps his pint
<madpup> im trying to kill off my windows addiction, again, and wont need the power anymore.............................................who am i kidding Diablo3 comes out next month :(.....................................
<madpup> Bye all thanks for the advice
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-05
<tonyFlury> on ubuntu - is there a signiificant different between a service and a deamon process ?
<dwatkins> hiya
<czajkowski> aloha
<danhg> morning all
<dwatkins> Today I am mostly trying to confine my coughing to my cubicle
<danhg> get some manuka honey
<dwatkins> a mere Â£15 a jar
<dwatkins> I assume it's good stuff, then, danhg :)
<Myrtti> any honey would do
<Myrtti> chrystalline one tends to work better for me, put it on a spoon and stick the spoon on the roof of my mouth and let it dissolve slowly
<danhg> it is magic stuff. works wonders for cough/cold/sore throat
<dwatkins> excellent, thanks :)
<Myrtti> honey also makes lemsip more drinkable, seems to make it less acidic
<czajkowski> aye cannot drink that stuff, take the tablet version
<dwatkins> Yeah, I tend to add a spoonfull.
<Myrtti> huh
<Myrtti> my clock on the top bar has vanished
<Myrtti> oh well.
<DJones> Happy last day of the week in work for 10 days :)
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<MooDoo> morning all
<bigcalm_laptop> Morning peeps :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<popey> Morning!
<bigcalm_laptop> Hullo popey, how's Argos?
<popey> heh, not been yet
<popey> all packaged up ready to go though
<davmor2> morning popey
<davmor2> popey: did you get your ipad back by the way?
<popey> davmor2: tnt tried to deliver it yesterday, we were out
<popey> they're re-delivering today
<popey> and it's a new one, not my old one âº
<DJones> What do you keep doing to these ipads? Isn't that the 3rd one you've had?
<popey> no
<popey> it's my first one that failed recently, out of warranty, apple said they'd fix/replace it, and the replacement is arriving from china today
<DJones> Must be getting confused, probably thinking at the bloke at work who's already had one replaced
<popey> which isn't bad service IMO
<DJones> Definately not, certainly not something you'd complain about
<popey> hah, just got a phone call from TNT saying my delivery is on the van âº
<popey> See, some companies know what service means âº
 * popey is looking at you, Microsoft
 * TheOpenSourcerer thinks it unlikely that Microsoft will be paying much attention to this channel.
<davmor2> popey: nice
<davmor2> mrevell: it looks like the lighthouse are down sizing due to funding so we won't have the greenhouse anymore we'll have to book the seating in the cafe if we intend to keep coming here :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo: o/
<oimon> didn't think i'd care about what logo/mascot cyanogen used, but the new proposed one looks like a scary alien :(
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: only unlikely I think you rate this channel too highly good sir :)
<oimon> ubuntu one is failing me yet again :(
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello matey, how's it going?
<davmor2> MooDoo: too much to do too little time
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> morning
<brobostigon> morning oimon
<MooDoo> davmor2: same here, although i need to get it all done before 2 as that breakup for Bhols for me.
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2 is playing footsie again
<bigcalm_laptop> I wish to sue for sexual harassment
<davmor2> bigcalm_laptop: you'll stay awake though
<andylockran> hey guys and gals, how goes things?
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: sue as he's not doing it enough or well enough ;)
<bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: :D
<bigcalm_laptop> <- tired :(
<MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: <--- should be asleep then
<MooDoo> :D
<bigcalm_laptop> What do you lot think of people who do "air quotes" while talking?
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: twats
 * bigcalm_laptop giggles uncontrollably
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm going to prod you uncontrollably
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello ello ello ello ello
<bigcalm_laptop> gord has made me feel ill
 * popey does 'air quotes' sometimes
<gord> my candy brings all the boys to the yard, and their like "it made me feel ill"
<czajkowski> gord: was this the stuff from the video/pics you G+?
<czajkowski> popey: yes but you're not a twat :)
<gord> czajkowski, nah different, umboshi candy, pickled plum
<davmor2> czajkowski: I think this is a family channel and the word you used wouldn't be allowed :P#
<czajkowski> davmor2: think you're over thinking the word
<czajkowski> gord: ohh
<bigcalm_laptop> I have a constant taste of bile in my mouth
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: thank you for that lovely image
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: go gargle some water
 * bigcalm_laptop goes to gargle some bleach
 * davmor2 calls for an ambulance for bigcalm_laptop 
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2 is acting like a child who just wants attention
<czajkowski> bigcalm_laptop: thats not acting
<czajkowski> :p
<bigcalm_laptop> Hehehe
<davmor2> czajkowski: Awesome!
<andylockran> anyone recommend someplace to find enthusiatic young php oop developer nr central London?
<czajkowski> davmor2: *glares*
<BigRedS> andylockran: my brother'll be back in a couple of months
<BigRedS> </plug>
<BigRedS> are you looking permanent or contract? I know a couple of contractors who aren't looking for work but might know people who are
 * davmor2 awesomely tickles czajkowski with a cat and goes off to think of other things she hates 
<BigRedS> nobody can hate cats!
<gordonjcp> cats are awesome
<gordonjcp> without a cat, I'd still have mice in my house
<czajkowski> I do
<davmor2> czajkowski: liar
<andylockran> BigRedS: I'm looking for either inexperienced, wanting to get some experience
<andylockran> or contract
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: what, hate cats or have mice?
<gordonjcp> or both, for that matter
<gord> i will teach my cat to do airquotes and then bring her to uds
<czajkowski> gordonjcp: hate cats
<czajkowski> gord: bring your own tea bags so
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: hm, knew there was something wrong with you ;-)
<gord> i think by this point we have proven that to be an impossibility :(
<andylockran> BigRedS: Any chance you could ping over a CV at somepoint please?
<czajkowski> gord: then you shall have 2 weeks without a propper cuppa
<gord> someone will bring me tea bags! they have to
<gordonjcp> gord: where are you?
<BigRedS> andylockran: yeah, if I find someone :) Do you have a job description? Or is it basically anyone who can do OOP PHP and wants to get paid to do it better?
<gord> lighthouse, why?
 * czajkowski rings the lighthouse, tells them not to give gord any tea 
 * davmor2 buys gords tea too upset czajkowski all the more then hi 5's gord s cat for being awesome and doing air quotes
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: can I have some of that hydraulic-acid please?
<bigcalm_laptop> Screw it, I'm going to buy the micro server
<MartijnVdS> Âµserver
<oimon> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17623422 << anyone know how soon ubuntu was patched for this java bug?
<arsen> oimon   - i think it was you east of the city? some huge flames out towards blackwall tunnel..
<popey> oimon: jan 24th
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2012-January/001567.html
<ali1234> is Dr Web a person?
<popey> que?
<gord> yes
<BigRedS> oimon: Looks like this CVE: http://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2012-0507
<BigRedS> Oh, ther eis a ubuntu one
<BigRedS> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2012/CVE-2012-0507.html
<BigRedS> should've guessed, really
<oimon> the ubuntu stuff seems to have got fixed in februaru
<oimon> if this story is tue then apple should be spanked for its negligence
<BigRedS> really? that implies that 11.10 and 12.04 are both still vulnerable with openjdk 7
<BigRedS> though, oddly, Debian's fine in 7 but not 6
<BigRedS> any rubyites?
<BigRedS> Wondering why gem is doing this: http://pastebin.com/Ru6S4rPQ
<bigcalm_laptop> How do I find out what the IP address of the DNS a machine is using?
<BigRedS> cat /etc/resolv.conf
<BigRedS> bigcalm_laptop: ^
<bigcalm_laptop> BigRedS: aha, yes, thanks :)
<BigRedS> no problem! Nice to see somebody ask a question I can answer :)
<oimon> bigcalm, what's 1+1= ?
<oimon> sorry BigRedS
<oimon> :D
<popey> 15:13:06 < popey> oimon: jan 24th
<popey> 15:13:14 < popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2012-January/001567.html
<oimon> popey, thats clever cos some alerts were released feb 14th :P
<oimon> the power of ubunt
<oimon> u
<oimon> power cut across most of north london earlier :\
<popey> oimon: *shrug* i just looked up the CVE on google
<oimon> popey, ah, there were lots of cve's in their patch update
<Azelphur> popey: think we could ninja this into the topic? http://bit.ly/xilcaH
<oimon> i tihnk they do quarterly updates
 * Azelphur wants more people to vote for it
<BigRedS> oimon: :)
<popey> Azelphur: probably better off on the mailing list
<Azelphur> that means I have to sign up to the mailing list :o
<popey> awful lot more people there than here
<Azelphur> hehe
<andylockran> howdy
 * Azelphur waves
<Azelphur> In other news, I think we should make this hat mandatory for all Linux related meetups in future: http://www.illtaketen.com/penguin-hat
<zleap> lol
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr_a8KszaPI
<Azelphur> o.O
<czajkowski> how do I Ã«  on a keyboard
<czajkowski> thats a copy n paste before someone comments
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: right-alt ", e
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: (with UK + International bits)
<popey> Â²e
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: or right-alt + some letter near e
<popey> Â¶ÅÃ°ÃÄ
<czajkowski> eÂ¶
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> e
<MartijnVdS> there's a printable keymap in the keyboard preferences screen
<czajkowski> http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2012/04/brightbox-12-04-daily-images-now-available-discounts-for-testers-and-ubuntu-members/   FYI folks
<ali1234> starting at Â£18/month per instance. still far too expensive
<czajkowski> 50% for @ubuntu.com address ali1234
<ali1234> the instances would need to cost under Â£2/month before it becomes feasible to use instead of standard VPS
<czajkowski> ali1234: are you ever happy :)
<BigRedS> ali1234: is it just a VPS with posh provisioning?
<BigRedS> I was trying to work out what it was earlier
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> BigRedS: when you use "the cloud" you use lots of instances all managed automatically
<ali1234> typically you end up with one or more instances for web server, one for database, one for load balancer etc
<BigRedS> yeah
<ali1234> so if you do that, you end up paying Â£80/month to run your website
<ali1234> which is fine if you get a billion hits every month
<BigRedS> Oh hang on
<BigRedS> I thought this was the metal-as-a-service thing
 * BigRedS should read up more often
<ali1234> no this is AWS compatible supposedly
<ali1234> er, EC2 compatible
<dogmatic69> is it safe using ssh keys with no password?
<ali1234> MaaS looks like the solution to the problem that getting loads of instances is currently prohibitively expensive
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: relatively
<BigRedS> depends how secure the key is
<dogmatic69> I want to auto mount folders from the network on login but that requires ssh and my key has a pw so it cant be automatic
<BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, but surely all teh work still needs to be done. Is is canonical turning up with a bunch of racks and plugging them in for you?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: then you need a passphraseless key
<ali1234> no
<BigRedS> they're used for that sort of thing allthe time
<ali1234> that's not the point
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: its a local network too, so I guess that make is 'more safe'
<ali1234> end user isn't going to buy MaaS. cloud providers will. it should enable more flexibility in instances
<dogmatic69> I want to open the server to the www though
<BigRedS> ali1234: yeah, but what is it? I don't get what it does. We're not a cloud provider, but we do sell big clusters. Is it appropriate there?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: it should be fine. the connection is equally secure, all the passphrase does is mean that the key on its own is worth less to an attacker
<dogmatic69> ye
<BigRedS> maybe I should reade more than just the press releases
<BigRedS> they all seem awfully manager-centric
<dogmatic69> thanks BigRedS
<xr1rr> wondered if some people could fill in this questionnaire https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGZfeDZ3Zm5CYVBrdnh1eGFfa0xONHc6MQ#gid=0
<AlanBell> why?
<popey> er
<popey> no way I'm filling that in.
<xr1rr> its about phishing for my research report
<popey> "Do you use the same password for more than one account? "
<popey> "Do you use the same user-name or ID on multiple accounts? "
<popey> "Do you change your passwords often? "
<Azelphur> haha
<dogmatic69> lol
<Azelphur> I think I'm going to score terribly on this test
<dogmatic69> "can I have your pw:"
<xr1rr> no you getting wrong idea
<Azelphur> Do you change your passwords often? - no, I don't need to XD
<xr1rr> It's for a college research report about phishing
<Azelphur> Do I click links? Sure but that's because I'm confident in my security
<Azelphur> I deliberately mess with phishing sites for fun
<Azelphur> hehe
<dogmatic69> xr1rr: I think you are asking the wrong target market. everyone here will know/understand phishing
<xr1rr> dogmatic69: just having a problem to get the amount of people to reply, I need 150
<dogmatic69> xr1rr: you tried your fb account?
<Azelphur> Would you be concerned if a Business had been attacked by phishing and personal or sensitive data was stolen?
<Azelphur> my sensitive information? or other peoples xD
<xr1rr> dogmatic69: yh
<dogmatic69> make the form look like barclays or something, email it around.. etc
<dogmatic69> that will get people filling it in
<dogmatic69> :)
<Azelphur> haha
<xr1rr> Azelphur: if I dont ask these questions, how can I create research data
<Azelphur> nah it's an interesting questionaire, I just filled it in and submitted
<Azelphur> but as dogmatic69 says, wrong target market, we all know what we are doing
<dogmatic69> gender: other :S
<popey> indeed, you need to ask people in the street, not tech-savvy linux users
<Azelphur> I'd be quite confident in that I could do whatever I wanted with the contents of an email or a webpage and maintain security of my computer, including opening attachments (even executable ones), and viewing malicious webpages.
<xr1rr> Azelphur: have had replies from a lot of different people but just had hard time finding lots of people to do it
<Azelphur> yea :)
<xr1rr> so just thought about asking here
<xr1rr> but that kinda back fired
<xr1rr> lol
<Azelphur> haha, hasn't really backfired, it's sparked conversation ;)
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: about clicking links / dl'ing email attachments. ever since ubuntu, all the time :D
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: exactly, can pretty much do whatever you want
<dogmatic69> on windows I will SHIFT + DELETE it without blinking
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: when people send me phishing sites, if I'm bored, I have some python, give it the details of the HTML form element, and it'll pummel it with fake account information (hopefully) rendering their database useless
<xr1rr> Azelphur: yeah attachments not to much of a problem here
<dogmatic69> talking about that, everyone seen how osx has been owned?
<xr1rr> good point
<xr1rr> lol
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: yea, 600,000 machines infected or something XD
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> it was 540k a day or two ago, now 600k
<Azelphur> It's really funny when the sites go 404 shortly after ;)
<dogmatic69> I help phishing sites with scalability issues, apache ab etc
<Azelphur> oh yea, always gotta help them with scalability
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: mine helps with both webserver and database scalability! :D
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> I been messing with bots lately, got sick of the spam
<Azelphur> hehe
<dogmatic69> my site does not use any form of user capture, not one spam message in 2 months now
<dogmatic69> :)
<Azelphur> that's fancy, how'd you pull that off?
<dogmatic69> I have been improving it all along, worst was 4 or 5 per minute.
<dogmatic69> got a rating system + honey pots
<Azelphur> rating system?
<Azelphur> I've been having issues on my site too and hate captchas
<dogmatic69> https://github.com/infinitas/infinitas/blob/beta/Core/Comments/Model/Behavior/CommentableBehavior.php#L277-310
<popey> I â¥  captchas!
<dogmatic69> popey--
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> after sparkfun free day... dislike
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: basically that does some rudimentary checks and gives a score -ve is bad, +ve is good, 0ish for manual review, is it full of links, has the message been submitted before, how many points does the user already have etc
<Azelphur> ah cool
<dogmatic69> if points are low its just discarded and shown a 404
<Azelphur> I was after stopping the signup
<Azelphur> as well as comments
<dogmatic69> as in -40 or something, if its -5ish would require manual activation
<dogmatic69> honeytrap works a treat.
<dogmatic69> just add something like <input type="hidden" name="foobar" /> and if that gets set I redirect them to /?bot=true. my code is all oop so if that happens all of a sudden no matter what, all links on the site are /?bot=true
<dogmatic69> every single one
<dogmatic69> its sort of like saying innocent until proven guilty.. not like most sites where every visitor is a spam bot
<ali1234> "Do you click links on an email even if you do not know the sender of the email?"
<ali1234> yes of course I do
<xr1rr> feel it in then ;)
<ali1234> the sender of the email has almost nothing to do with whther it is safe or not
<BigRedS> yeah, where the link goes is more interesting, really
<ali1234> i get as much crap and viruses from people I know as people i don't
<ali1234> if not more
<ali1234> because the stuff from unknowns just gets blocked
<ali1234> how do you change default web browser?
<ali1234> oh it's in "details"... that makes sense
<popey> ali1234: bug 974473  is something you've experienced before?
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974473 in unity "Most recently opened window doesn't get focus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974473
<popey> (suspect it's a compiz bug not unity)
<ali1234> yeah i've experienced that a lot. but not recently
<ali1234> it comes and goes
<popey> i have it with a clean new user
<ali1234> it was fixed once
<ali1234> then it came back
<popey> can you try now?
<ali1234> i disabled all windows key interaction from unity
<ali1234> i never used it
<ali1234> so i can't say it's the same bug or not
<popey> well, you dont need windows key
<popey> happens if you click nautilus in the launcher
<popey> IME
<ali1234> ok i can reproduce
<ali1234> only with nautilus though
<ali1234> ok i can reproduce with pidgin/firefox too
<popey> great, thank you
<ali1234> ok this is dumb
<ali1234> there's at least three places where you can configure the "default" browser
<ali1234> there's the cntrol panel thing in "details"
<ali1234> there's sudo update-alternatives --config x-www-browser
<ali1234> and there's the third way, the way that actually works
<popey> dont think I have ever used the update-alternatives method
<ali1234> the third way
<ali1234> Run gconf-editor , edit the /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http(s) keys to your liking. In my case "firefox %s".
<ali1234> nice work gnome
<BigRedS> aha!
<BigRedS> I was trying to remember the third way the other day
<ali1234> of course that key doesn't exist
<BigRedS> well, it'd be too easy if it did
<GreenDance> Hello Everyone!
<GreenDance> :)
<GreenDance> sorry it's been a while.
 * AlanBell has just requested the 12.04 loco CD allocation
<GreenDance> AlanBell, do you by any chance know why the Ubuntu team have chosen to not support the raspberry pi
<BigRedS> I guess it's a big bunch of work to get an arm6 kernel together and the point of the raspberry pi isn't really to be a desktop system
<BigRedS> s/kernel/distro/
<ali1234> what *is* the point of the raspberry pi?
<ali1234> all i ever hear about it is what it is not supposed to be
<BigRedS> education!
<TheOpenSourcerer> ARM6 was dropped from Ubuntu after 9.04 I think. So quite a while ago.
<BigRedS> just don't ask for more clarification than that
<TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: It's to play about with.
<BigRedS> I think it's great as an arduino for people who don't want to solder
<BigRedS> that's what I want one for
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> that is wrong on so many levels
<ali1234> allow me to enumerate them
<BigRedS> rather than mess around with actual components, I'll get a small, low-power, general-purpose PC
<TheOpenSourcerer> Might make a rather useful thin-client too.
<ali1234> firstly, the arduino is solderless and the raspberry pi isn't
<BigRedS> and use software to make it do my bidding
<ali1234> in order to add gpio to raspberry pi, you have to solder in a header
<ali1234> secondly, the raspberry pi is nothing at all like an arduino
<BigRedS> alright, s/solderdeal with components/
<ali1234> one of them has full documentation and schematics
<ali1234> the other doesn't
<BigRedS> you don't need schematics for the pi because you're manipulating it in software rather than hardware
<GreenDance> It's a shame the ubuntu team don't want to help the raspberry pi team.
<GreenDance> imo*
<GreenDance> Education is important
<ali1234> and you don't need components for the arduino if you only want to do things in software
<BigRedS> why is it a shame?
<ali1234> besides which, no amount of components soldered to an arduino will make it anything like a raspberry pi
<BigRedS> I don't see who gains from being able to put Ubuntu on a pi
<ali1234> because the arduino is based on a microcontroller. it is designed to turn on and off gpios and not much else
<GreenDance> because, with the fact the raspberry pi is so cheap, many people can buy one, but won't be able to use ubuntu, they will have to choose something else.
<BigRedS> no, because they're completely different. But the pi fills the same "cool cheap thing to mess around with" function as teh arduino does, but it's *not* a hardware-hacking thing, it's a playing-with-software one
<ali1234> the raspberry pi is pretty mucht he opposite of that. it is designed for proprietary multimedia systems
<BigRedS> GreenDance: yes. But they don't want ubuntu
<BigRedS> because they wont be able to run a usable desktop on it anyway
<BigRedS> so they may as well run debian
<BigRedS> and they can
<GreenDance> BigRedS, raspberry pi want ubuntu, ubuntu don't want the raspberry pi
<BigRedS> GreenDance: yes
<BigRedS> because ubuntu means free marketing. There is no problem that is solved by Ubuntu being avilable on the pi
<ali1234> if raspberry pi really wanted ubuntu they should have designed it around a more modern ARM core with a more accessible GPU
<GreenDance> ali1234 it's all about the cost
<ali1234> yes
<BigRedS> yeah, and if it's low cost you make compromises
<BigRedS> like not getting support from things that don't support ancient hardware
<ali1234> or in other words, if you are too cheap to run ubuntu, that's your own problem
<GreenDance> hangon......
<GreenDance> so, all the families who are poor, it's their problem they can't aford a computer?
<BigRedS> No
<BigRedS> they can have a computer
<ali1234> they can have a computer
<BigRedS> they don't want a raspberry pi instead of a PC though
<ali1234> just not one that runs ubuntu
<ali1234> like they also can't have one that runs apple
<BigRedS> and, if they do, why on earth would they want to put ubuntu on it? They'd want the most pared down lightweight thing they can find
<BigRedS> else they'll never get anything done on it
<ali1234> that whole "ubuntu is for everyone" thing went out the window a long time ago btw
<GreenDance> i guess i missed that ali1234
<ali1234> ubuntu is now only for people who support the ideals of ubuntu
<GreenDance> i don't know where i was when that happened
<BigRedS> but they'd be much better off joining one of the schemes to help them get an actual PC
<BigRedS> or just getting an old PC from friends or whatever
<ali1234> yep, if you don't have a PC, raspberry pi will be useless to you
<ali1234> because you won't get the thing to work without a debugging system
<ali1234> if you are poor and you don't have a PC i will give you one for free, and it will run ubuntu
<ali1234> however, it will not be a raspberry pi
<ali1234> it will be cobbled together from old bits
<ali1234> also it will be extremely slow
<ali1234> it will run ubuntu but only if you are very very patient
<ali1234> it will still be faster than the raspberry pi though
<AlanBell> GreenDance: yes, it is about the ARMv6 instruction set
<AlanBell> someone could compile ubuntu for it and build the repos for it, but it wouldn't really be real Ubuntu without a fully maintained repository
<AlanBell> they were contemplating shipping something like Ubuntu 8.10 on it and that has run on the raspberry pi
<AlanBell> I asked them not to do that, as it is going to be old and unsupportable and un-upgradeable
<dwatkins> The Raspberry Pi only has 256 MB of RAM, it wouldn't run many apps.
<AlanBell> so users would have a bad experience, and I don't want them having a bad experience and blaming Ubuntu
<popey> s/many apps/the desktop/
<dwatkins> ah yes, popey
<AlanBell> also putting ubuntu on it sets entirely the wrong expectations
<AlanBell> it would be a PC that isn't very good, rather than an educational computer to do interesting things with
<dwatkins> yeah, I see the Raspberry Pi as more of a device for a single purpose than a desktop computer I could run any application on
<AlanBell> so people can run debian on it, and python stuff, I expect a lot of the unity stuff would run on it if someone wanted to do so
<AlanBell> you can also swap out the SD card very easily, I can see them being used like cartridges on a games console
<dwatkins> yeah
<AlanBell> you have a stack of them that boot into different personalities
 * popey is looking forward to getting one to play with
 * dwatkins too
<dwatkins> I ordered a case, also
<AlanBell> I have one ordered
<AlanBell> where did you order the case from?
<popey> hope mine comes in time to take to UDS
<dwatkins> http://www.modmypi.com/products.php AlanBell
<penguin42> what's the current guess on when a Pi might turn up?
<popey> mine is still due wc 16/4
<dwatkins> Mid-May, I gather
<popey> fingers crossed
<GreenDance> does anyone here by any chance have an android mobile?
 * dwatkins does
 * BigRedS does
<GreenDance> I have been tinkering with mine today, trying to get it to boot faster, so i deleted 2 files, one was bootanimation and the other was the same name with 2 extra letters at the end of it, now during boot i have 10 seconds of black screen, can this be fixed please?
<BigRedS> oh. I don't do those sorts of things with my phone
<GreenDance> I thought by deleting the t-mobile boot animation my mobi would be faster on boot, nope :(
<dwatkins> I imagine the amount of time it takes to display the boot animation images is negleigble, GreenDance.
<dwatkins> I replaced my boot animation with R2D2 ;)
<dwatkins> http://gadgetfeel.com/how-to-install-custom-boot-animation-in-android/ GreenDance - modify system files at your own risk etc.etc.
<mikeatvillage> Hello folks. I have ubuntu 10.04 with Gnome.  How do I stop the display going blank after period of inactivity?
<dwatkins> mikeatvillage: system -> preferences -> power management (or screensaver)
<bigcalm> Evenin' peeps :)
<mikeatvillage> Power management setting at 'Never' but still blanks :-(
<mikeatvillage> Oh I am such a twat... screensaver is "Blank screen" :-))
<dwatkins> mikeatvillage: another mystery solved :) please mind your language, though, it's a family show :)
<mikeatvillage> dwatkins: My apologies :-)
<dwatkins> also, welcome to #ubuntu-uk, mikeatvillage
<popey> greetings mikeatvillage
<popey> welcome to the funny farm
<bigcalm> Description: PROLIANT N40L 1P 2GB-U INT SATA 250GB 1Y
<bigcalm> Status: shipped
 * bigcalm will be watching the front door from tomorrow morning until Tuesday evening
<mikeatvillage> Thank you.
<dwatkins> bigcalm: don't you have kids or pets to do that for you? ;)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: neither
<dwatkins> me neither, I cheat and have stuff delivered to work
<bigcalm> I work from home
<dwatkins> ah I see
<bigcalm> Though it's a 4 day weekend, I don't expect to see DPD any time before Tuesday
<dwatkins> new server?
<bigcalm> Currently my server is an Acer Revo :)
<bigcalm> Thought it was about time to have something a little more sensible
<bigcalm> And I'm getting 100 quid cash back
<bigcalm> https://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/658553-421
<dwatkins> nifty
<penguin42> bigcalm: Yeh those are nice - a friend has one
<dwatkins> A lot cheaper than I expected, too. I guess it's just the machine on its own.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: aye, no OS. Will be getting 12.04
<bigcalm> Pendulum: popey has been pleased with his, so I thought why not?
<penguin42> bigcalm: One bit of advice, if you need to remove the SAS connector plug to the motherboard, do it carefully, if it doesn't want to budge stop and reconsider; a friend managed to remove the socket from the board, and looking around a few people have
<dwatkins> I run 10.04 on an Atom-based netbook at 1.6 GHz, does the job for me for fileserving and ssh, http etc.
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> What is the SAS connector and why would I want to remove it?
<dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, I've done that myself too
<dwatkins> even a normal SATA port can end up coming off if you yank the cable the wrong way
<penguin42> bigcalm: All the SATA connections goes through one 4 lane SAS connector to the motherboard, it's a standard connector but the clips are sometimes a bit dodgy
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Duly noted, thanks :)
<AlanBell> I like the back to brown pangolin wallpaper
<popey> \o/ microserver
<bigcalm> popey: same as your one?
<dwatkins> bigcalm & popey: I'd be very interested to know how warm those machines get when idling
<popey> no idea
<popey> no bigcalm mine is an n36L, older, slower but much the same
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> mine has 5 disks in it, so probably gets warmer than others
<popey> and a drive bay attached with 4 more disks
<bigcalm> Oh my
<penguin42> popey: 9 disks on a poor little microserver!
<popey> yeah
<popey> :D
<popey> internal 4 on RAID10
<popey> ooh watchdog bit on iphone 4s on bbc1
<daubers> popey: Apple say they're holding it wrong?
<popey> oh they're moaning about location features
<popey> well that wasn't worth watching :D
<popey> oh, now a bit about laptops
<popey> i love watchdog
 * Laney is catching up on the apprentice
<Laney> Quality Televisionâ¢
<popey> hehe, segment all about how expensive wifi is in hotels
<mikeatvillage> I'm watching steam trains on BBC4 - I hate laptops :-)
<popey> \o/ trains
<MartijnVdS> popey: the Tube series thing was cool!
<popey> yeah, i didnt see them all
<Laney> â¥ BBC4
<popey> but the ones i did see were entertaining/enlightening/scary
<popey> â¥ BBC
 * brobostigon is nerding out on new BBT eps, on e4.
<popey> BBT?
<Laney> http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/p4zrw/materials--series-1---1-metal-how-it-works this sounds good later
<Laney> big bang theory
<brobostigon> popey: big bang theory.
<popey> ahh
<bigcalm> I â¥â¥ Dr. Who
<MartijnVdS> Dr. Vho?
<bigcalm> Laney: looks good
<bigcalm> It's already on the iPlayer
 * bigcalm watches
<bigcalm> Scrub that
 * bigcalm leeches
<mikeatvillage> Images of Barry scrapyard :-(
<popey> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ur09MPySyig/T33IS8OjF0I/AAAAAAAAMVo/A2Jsx0MT6y0/w239/abd-232.gif
<popey> tee hee
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Delivery Status: Your parcel has been received at our sortation hub
<penguin42> oh one of those
<bigcalm> Sortation? The English language is constantly evolving
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2012/04/05/ordering-your-12-04-cds-for-loco-teams-is-now-available/
<penguin42> bigcalm: I don't know why they don't say sorting office
<AlanBell> czajkowski: already done it
<czajkowski> cool
<bigcalm> Location: Hub 3 - Birmingham
<bigcalm> I could drive there right now!
<penguin42> bigcalm: The paths they take are nuts - 100-200 miles for something that's 10miles as the penguinf lies
<bigcalm> When my Nexus One was shipped from the USA, it went up and down the country 4 times because Google hadn't given UPS the correct address detail
<penguin42> sniff - they're killing off Tesco Value
<Azelphur> wat :o
<penguin42> Azelphur: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17622856
<Azelphur> noes, not tesco value :(
<bigcalm> Delivery Status: In Transit
<bigcalm> I have a feeling that I may have a new server tomorrow :S
<czajkowski> bank holiday?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Either it'll be delivered tomorrow or it'll sit at the local depot until Tuesday morning
<zleap> they may deliver saturday
<zleap> if not its 4 days with no post,
<bigcalm> Maybe
<bigcalm> There was a delivery option for Saturday, at much higher cost. So might not get it then
<czajkowski> bigcalm: tomorrow is a bank holiday no?
<czajkowski> so if you didnt get it today and didnt pay for saturday you wont get it till tuesday
<bigcalm> czajkowski: it is, yes
<bigcalm> I ordered it today
<bigcalm> I'm surprised that they have moved it anywhere at all
<directhex> whose suggestion was whole earth organic sparkling cola? ali1234?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> don't blame me if it's horrible though
<ali1234> i mean i'm not a cola expert
<directhex> this is the most bizarre flavour i've ever tried. might be the agave?
<directhex> sadly it arrived flat as a pancake :/
<ali1234> flat??
<ali1234> in a can?
<ali1234> how can?
<bigcalm> Squashed under a heavy load?
<directhex> heavily impacted, courtesy of the couriers
<ali1234> but... wouldn't it have leaked out everywhere then?
<directhex> ali1234: nope. just knocked the carbonation out.
<AlanBell> it should disolve back in again (or explode when you open it)
<ali1234> yeah that's what i would have thought
<ali1234> flat cola always tastes weird anyway
<directhex> yeah, but i know what to expect from the taste of flat cola. this ain't it. must be the agave
<directhex> don't think i'[ve ever had agave-sweetened cola
<directhex> don't think it occurred to me as an option, tbh!
<popey> where'd you get it?
<directhex> AlanBell: okay, a tiny bit has re-dissolved. but i can count the bubbles floating to the surface
<directhex> popey: naturalcollection.com
<popey> 95p!
<popey> better taste bloody great
<popey> ikonia: btw, you missed a trick, should have registered omgcola âº
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> bug 974017
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974017 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "Crash when touching trackpad with 10 fingers" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974017
<bigcalm> lol
<popey> indeed
<dogmatic69> Not sure if I am making this up, but I am sure I read somewhere of having a terminal open and you can logout / in to the server and 'resume the session'
<dogmatic69> is this possible?
<AlanBell> that would be byobu
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: for me?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: yes
<AlanBell> !info byobu
<lubotu3`> byobu (source: byobu): powerful, text based window manager and shell multiplexer. In component main, is optional. Version 4.37-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 74 kB, installed size 700 kB
<AlanBell> so you log in, type byobu then do stuff
<dogmatic69> so its installed on the server then
<ali1234> use screen instead
<dogmatic69> :/
<AlanBell> close the terminal, or press "ctrl+a d" then log back in and type byobu and you are back where you were
<ali1234> it's like byobu except without all the distracting numbers and keyboard shortcuts
<AlanBell> and you can press f9 to get a help thing in byobu
<AlanBell> and F2 to create a new terminal window and F3 and F4 to move between terminal windows
<dogmatic69> ye, just opened byobu and its like I need ad block for terminal :D
<ali1234> ctrl-a c and ctrl-a n respectively, in screen
<popey> same in byobu
<ali1234> byobu is actually a profile for screen
<AlanBell> screen is the same thing (or tmux) but with less refinement
<AlanBell> it is a profile for tmux now
<AlanBell> in 12.04
<ali1234> except yes, sometimes byobu is actually tmux, which isn;t compatible with screen and a lot more buggy
<popey> but maintained âº
<popey> BED!
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: F9 then toggle status notifications
<AlanBell> you can turn on and off the stuff
<dogmatic69> hmm.. this might be more confusing than I thought
<ali1234> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git
<ali1234> looks maintained to me
<dogmatic69> 4 commits in 5 months != maintained
<dogmatic69> 5 the whole of last year only
<AlanBell> tbh I can't tell the difference between screen and tmux versions of byobu, just the screen version doesn't display esoteric unicode
<ali1234> the tmux version can't start up in detached mode
<AlanBell> screen is pretty much "finished" so there won't be a lot of exciting commits to it
<ali1234> which means you can't start a session from a statup script
<dogmatic69> ha, if you do screen. go to some folder, close terminal. open it again, ssh back to server and run byobu its back to screen
<dogmatic69> and it does not have the notices etc
<AlanBell> yeah, it would do :)
<dogmatic69> defiantly just a wrapper then
<ali1234> yes because byobu is reattaching to the existing session rather than making a new one
<ali1234> the main difference between tmux and screen is screen is oriented around multiple "fullscreen" terminals that you switch between
<dogmatic69> ye
<ali1234> but tmux is about splitting up the one terminal into lots of tiny sub windows
<ali1234> which is just confusing
<ali1234> screen can do splits but they aren't part of the session. they go away if you disconnect
<AlanBell> just run tmux in screen in tmux for the best of all worlds \o/
<dogmatic69> looking at it, it could be nice. it has download speed and cpu usage etc
<ali1234> that is actuallypossible, if you change the hotkeys for each nested level
<ali1234> some people like to make every terminal window on their system into a byobu
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: you can run an irssi session in (screen/byobu/tmux) which is nice
<ali1234> these people are crazy and end up doing exactly this
<dogmatic69> i keep hearing about that, irc or something
<ali1234> yeah, running irc in screen is popular
<AlanBell> top tip, run your irssi session on a backup server
<ali1234> the advantage is you can run it on a server and appear to be connected all the tie
<dogmatic69> ye
<AlanBell> then you know if the backup server isn't working
<dogmatic69> :D
<ali1234> the disadvantage is you have to use a crappy terminal based irc client like iirsi
<dogmatic69> I have been looking at building a NAS / backup (I know now its two different things)
<dogmatic69> I bought a blade server for home, sounds like the vacuum clear is running :D
<dogmatic69> need matching storage / backups
<AlanBell> small servers tend to be noisy
<dogmatic69> how easy would it be to reproduce something like the 'you have mail' that pops up in terminal, with say apache errors?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: its a 1U, huge compared to my desktop
 * AlanBell tries to parse what dogmatic69 said
<AlanBell> yeah, 1u servers are often screamers
<dogmatic69> when your mail is not configured properly... you get notifications in terminal.
<ali1234> dogmatic69: as we found out the other day, php can email you on error
<dogmatic69> ali1234: I would like it in the console while deving. no more tail -f /what/is/the/damn/path/again.err
<dogmatic69> almost like desktop alerts, but in terminal
<AlanBell> that sounds like a reasonable use for tmux actually
<ali1234> you want the errors to spam all over the console?
<dogmatic69> eg, logged into my server...
<dogmatic69> Welcome to Ubuntu!
<ali1234> tail -f /whatever &
<dogmatic69>  * Documentation:  https://help.ubuntu.com/
<dogmatic69> You have new mail.
<dogmatic69> Last login: Wed Apr  4 16:37:21 2012 from <ip>
<ali1234> that's going to get annoying though
<dogmatic69> ali1234: well it would only happen while I am actively developing a site.
<dogmatic69> its not like I browse my dev sites for fun while using terminal
<dogmatic69> It would need a demon monitoring the logs and then somehow spitting them out when changes are detected
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: in byobu look at the "default windows" stuff
<AlanBell> there is a preset that does Every 10.0s: tail -n 5 /var/log/syslog /var/log/auth.log /var/log/dmesg
<dogmatic69> I was just fiddling them
<dogmatic69> ye, I had that.. that is annoying. you have to ctrl+c to get back
<AlanBell> no, you create more windows
<AlanBell> with F2
<AlanBell> then F3/F4 to flip between them, you leave it running
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<dogmatic69> any way to disable exit. maybe alias exit="echo 'oh no you didnt'"
<dogmatic69> By habit I exit and that obviously defeats the purpose
<bigcalm> You type exit rather than ctrl-d?
<dogmatic69> ctrl+d?
<dogmatic69> i always exit a server
<dogmatic69> thought that is the way
<bigcalm> What do you think ctrl d does?
<AlanBell> I just close the gnome-terminal window
<dogmatic69> i just tried it, logs you out
<AlanBell> night all o/
<bigcalm> Night Alan
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: that pops up a window saying are you sure (well 10.10 did)
<dogmatic69> night, thanks for the help AlanBell
 * hamitron uses ctrl+d
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> Im the only noob using exit
<dogmatic69> ctrl+d has just improved my lazy armoury
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> that's the spirit!
<dogmatic69> hamitron: my new blade improved laziness 50 fold
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> do you remember learning, when logging into loads of different terminals?
<dogmatic69> from having hundreds of vhosts and lines in /etc/hosts for php dev, I now have bind9, one global *.dev catch and 2 vhosts. one for cakephp specific and one for php general
<hamitron> because you had never heard of "screen"
<dogmatic69> I have used terminator for a long time
<dogmatic69> great for local, but I can see screen as a replacement for remote admin
<hamitron> terminator?
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> apt-get install terminator
<hamitron> I just use alt+F# keys :/
<dogmatic69> its awesome, tabbed terminal, broadcast etc etc
<hamitron> that sounds kinda cool
<dogmatic69> you can open tabs, in each tab multi terminals.
<dogmatic69> then you can group them how you like
<hamitron> hang on, this is gui app?
<dogmatic69> then broadcast
<dogmatic69> ye
<hamitron> ah, I learned my stuff with no X
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> its like screen on steroids in a GUI
<hamitron> gonna give it a go
<dogmatic69> but, not that its a good idea or anything, you can log into 10 servers, hit broadcast all and do 'apt-get update'
<dogmatic69> all 10 done
<hamitron> heh
<hamitron> just remembered I'm not on debian now
<dogmatic69> things like that.
 * hamitron just tried to apt-get
 * hamitron facedesks
<dogmatic69> ssh to all your co-workers and broadcast 'say "you suck"'
<dogmatic69> idk
 * penguin42 is old school - that's what wall(1) is for
<dogmatic69> hamitron: no apt-get?
<hamitron> on slackware atm
<dogmatic69> ah
<bigcalm> You can also echo to a single tty or user
<dogmatic69> yum install apt-get
<bigcalm> With write
<dogmatic69> :D
<hamitron> slackware has yum?
<bigcalm> Doesn't like the ! though
<dogmatic69> hamitron: I am guessing
<hamitron> I use installpkg
<hamitron> but I kinda need the package to install ;)
<dogmatic69> how I miss apt-get on windows
<dogmatic69> its a real pita to download and install apps
<hamitron> I do miss and don't miss all the package management
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> well, auto deps
<dogmatic69> hamitron: Its nice to apt-get some<tab> and you will likely find what you need, and 99.9% sure its not some virus infested porn app
<hamitron> your loss
<dogmatic69> :D
<hamitron> I mean, errrr, yeh
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> I realised the other day, since ubuntu I have not really used torrents.
<hamitron> :-o
<dogmatic69> not that I used ever :-|
<hamitron> I use them to test new distro
<hamitron> mostly
<bigcalm> Night kids :)
<dogmatic69> linuxmag or whatever its called
<dogmatic69> later bigcalm
<hamitron> nn big
<hamitron> I used to get linux format, to save on the downloads
<hamitron> but I felt the mag was just going over the same old "install this easy distro" every few months
<hamitron> and the dvd were out of date
<hamitron> and it cost Â£60 per year
<hamitron> canceled and now buy a few extra books to read certain subjects in depth :)
<dogmatic69> ye, same as any mag.
<dogmatic69> I only buy the ones I like every few months
<dogmatic69> its like reading reddit every day... REPOST
<ali1234> bug 974716
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 974716 in brasero (Ubuntu) "brasero "crashes" when burning large blu-ray isos" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974716
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-06
<astromech> good morning everyone
<sagaci_> ah, kazam screencaster seems a hell of a lot better now
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> hows folks?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<dwatkins> I got post on a bank holiday, I was very surprised.
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> even better, it's a game I sent back to lovefilm in error
 * dwatkins goes to wash up
 * kvarley1 foolishly went to the sorting office and then realised it was a bank holiday. Doh! (dwatkins)
<zleap> oops
<kvarley1> Indeed
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<kvarley1> hey bigcalm - how's it going?
<bigcalm> Wondering why I'm in the office today
<bigcalm> You?
<kvarley> Setting up Ubuntu Minimal on my new arm board =]
<czajkowski> bigcalm: why you working it's a bank holiday!
 * Laney is working too
 * BigRedS is working
<Laney> day off in lieuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
<BigRedS> yeah, my bank holiday weekend is next weekend
<BigRedS> and it's five days long:)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: sweet any plans ?
<BigRedS> yeah, lots of helping parents get my stuff out of their houses :(
<bigcalm> czajkowski: too much to do and Hayley is out for the day with a friend
<BigRedS> Oh, and maybe fixing my brother's bike. I'm in two minds as to whether I want him to have finished it this weekend.
<bigcalm> czajkowski: what else am I to do? My default setting it to sit in front of a computer
 * czajkowski is offline for the rest of the day 
<BigRedS> czajkowski: you up to much over this weekend? If so, why are you online now? :)
<czajkowski> toodles folks
<BigRedS> aha!
<bigcalm> Taaraa
<BigRedS> have fun!
<Laney> just listened to bleeping for 10 minutes thinking that the album was a lot more experimental than expected
<Laney> turns out that spotify was just having an episode
<bigcalm> Haha
<gordonjcp> Laney: lol
<Laney> i was actually in the middle of writing an angry tweet when i checked the one song that i already know :P
<bigcalm> The Linux client is still buggy, yay
<Laney> proxy support is still a bit faily too
<bigcalm> Trying to create a new radio station but I can't enter text into the box. Can paste via the context menu though
<bigcalm> Milkshake by Kelis just started on Spotify
<bigcalm> Sadly, I can only see Peter Griffin performing it now
<bigcalm> Bonkers!
 * bigcalm cranks up the volume and bass
<popey> haha
<astromech> what did you get for your birthday popey ?
<bigcalm> A broken xbox
<bigcalm> Sorry :(
<popey> haha
<popey> got a refund for kinect
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> Send the xbox to Apple, see how far their customer support goes
<dogmatic69> update for 12.04b2 are > 600mb :(
 * bigcalm slithers out in search for lunch
<bigcalm> Updates are good!
<dogmatic69> not 600mb+ updates, that is 50mb short of downloading the whole thing again
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Progress!
<dogmatic69> penguin42: it is quite buggy. lost of small things
<dogmatic69> nothing major yet
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Make sure even the small things get lp'reported
<dogmatic69> I will try, never done bugs for ubuntu
<dogmatic69> I also dont know enough to tell if its a PEBKAC, app or ubuntu error
<dogmatic69> main annoyance atm is copy paste. I used to just highlight in terminal, switch somewhere and ctrl+p. no that only works sometimes
<dogmatic69> it is quite random how the copy paste behaves now.
<penguin42> dogmatic69: To report a bug, get a launchpad.net account, then the easiest thing is in a terminal do    ubuntu-bug   packagename     where packagename is your best guess at the package responsible
<popey> ctrl+p?
<popey> never used that for paste
<penguin42> me neither, I'm not sure what's doing that
<dogmatic69> popey: i meant ctrl+v
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> was just thinking ctrl + paste
<dogmatic69> why does launchpad use bazaar, Y U NO HAVE GIT
<penguin42> dogmatic69: I believe it's historic; I also don't like bzr, but it is quite neatly tied into launchpad in mayn ways
<dogmatic69> would think with git been written by the god of linux it would be de-facto
<dogmatic69> 565 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 6 not upgraded. Need to get 571 MB of archives.
<dogmatic69> :O
<popey> you'll get more on monday âº
<Laney> git hasn't always existed
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to take a screen shot of a context menu
<dogmatic69> without a camera :)
<popey> super -> screenshot -> "grab after delay of "... seconds
<popey> then open the menu
<dogmatic69> how is this
<dogmatic69> 975102
<dogmatic69> bug 975102
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 975102 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Context menus dont show until mouse over" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975102
<popey> thats not an xorg bug
<popey> almost certainly compiz
<popey> i have seen it too, not recently though
<popey> what version of compiz you using?
<popey> dpkg -l compiz
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Still, good for filing the bug!
<popey> yes, totally âº
<popey> heh, not updated my nvidia desktop for a while, 715 packages to upgrade, 548MB :D
<popey> wheeeeee
<dogmatic69> popey: it was a 'best guess' 1:0.9.7.2-0ubuntu4
<dogmatic69> popey: I can change it, i think
<dogmatic69> updated the ticket, added the dpkg -l compiz
<popey> âº  dogmatic69
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/rjTQH.jpg
<Laney> Rick's AMA is (going to be) fun :-)
<Laney> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/rw6iu/iama_directory_of_engineering_for_canonical_i/
<czajkowski> impressive
<BigRedS> czajkowski: aren't you supposed to be offline enjoying the bank holiday? :)
 * popey is getting tired of the 'ubuntu kernel' verses 'linux kernel' that keeps coming up after zonkers blog post
 * Laney thinks he didn't mean totsay "the sun has set on Gnome"
 * Laney giggles
<popey> yeah
<Laney> s/totsay/to say/
<popey> flamey
<MartijnVdS> Zoinks?
<popey> http://dissociatedpress.net/2012/03/27/ubuntu-were-not-linux/comment-page-1/#comment-79919
<popey> that comment answers it
<dogmatic69> oooh, found another bug
<dogmatic69> having 2x gedit windows open only shows one arrow on the launch icon.
<popey> dogmatic69: have you logged out and back in since you updated unity/compiz?
<dogmatic69> its still going
<dogmatic69> updates crashed at some point and had to start over
<popey> i wouldn't file any more bugs until you have fully updated and logged out and back in
<dogmatic69> ye, I will hold out
<popey> because updating unity causes odd launcher behaviour
<popey> might still be a bug of course âº
<MartijnVdS> That's a bug in itself, imho
<dogmatic69> was just going to say the same thing
<popey> file it âº
 * Laney has discovered ebook-convert
<Laney> specifically that it can convert LWN into mobi
<czajkowski> BigRedS: chatting to other half he's on irc
<czajkowski> plannign when and where I am to collect him later
<BigRedS> czajkowski: Oh, alright then. I'll let you off
<Laney> blast
<Laney> I wanted to claim my cool Ubuntu flair on Reddit
<Laney> but I cannot comment on http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/l5b3x/members_and_canonical_employees_claim_your_flair/ â can anyone else? is it closed?
<BigRedS> Laney: yeah, I can't comment
<Laney> perhaps 6 months is some kind of limit
<BigRedS> Oh, there's a couple of posts I can reply to
<BigRedS> ctrl-F for reply
<Laney> anything < 6 months
<dogmatic69> updates done \o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Big Bens car boot sale  1st April 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=146
<dogmatic69> popey: updated and restarted and still the issue with context menus
<popey> dogmatic69: I'd do "ubuntu-bug compiz"
<dogmatic69> I changed the ticket, would that not make a new one?
<popey> oh ok, fair enough
<ali1234> hmm an update for flash but it cannnot be installed
<ali1234> and firefox has crashed
<Azelphur> ali1234: flash full screen works for me now :o
<Azelphur> on the downside, everything is blue
<Azelphur> and it keeps overlaying itself on top of other applications
<dwatkins> Azelphur: sounds like bug 968489
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 967091 in adobe-flashplugin (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #968489 Wrong tint with Nvidia after upgrading to 11.2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967091
<ali1234> the new 12.04 wallpapers are somewhat uninspiring :(
<AlanBell> I like the brown one with the pangolin on it
<ali1234> that's probably the best one
<ali1234> i particularly dislike all the macro photography ones
<ali1234> now browsing /wg/
<ali1234> the trouble with all the photos is they don't tile on multimonitor
<ali1234> and they are too busy
<ali1234> also the way the launcher tries to blend doesn't work very well with photographs
<popey> ali1234: i think there's a bug in the colour matching
<popey> i think it's known about
<ali1234> well
<popey> shows up badly on the puke desktop
<ali1234> the puke desktop?
<ali1234> you mean the pink and orange one?
<popey> aubergine and orange yeah
<ali1234> pink
 * popey squints
<Myrtti> pink mentioned
<ali1234> all it needs to do, is do exactly what it does now, and then make the clour about 20% darker, and it will look fine
<ali1234> at the moment it looks like a neon sign whenever it pops out
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evenin' all. Had a nice Good Friday everyone?
<ali1234> there's no way to make the wallpaper fill both monitors
<ali1234> this sucks
<ali1234> it used to be possible
<ali1234> why you have to rewrite everything and make it worse?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am just about to cook up some smoked salmon, cream & chive carbonara to serve with pasta.
<ali1234> oh wait, span still works
<ali1234> image just isn't quite the right size
<Azelphur> can bank to bank transfers be reversed?
<DJones> Azelphur: Very occasionally and not easily, probably 99 out 100 can't be cancelled
<Azelphur> fun
<DJones> I do a lot for work using online bank systems, to cancel, you have to ring the bank and they can try to cancel it, but I don't think I've seen any that have been cancelled in the last 18 months
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> Wow.. that bad?
<MartijnVdS> â¥ Dutch banking :)
<ali1234> the state of blu-ray support on ubuntu is really awful
<ali1234> k3b desn't work at all
<ali1234> brasero only works with BD-RE and not BD-R
<ali1234> there's no way to make a real blu-ray file system
<ali1234> and no way to actually play a blu-ray without transcoding it first
<ali1234> and no way to play the menus at all
<ali1234> so i can burn a blu-ray ISO authored on windows, but only to a rewritable disc which cost Â£5 each, and then i've no way of testing it afterwards
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/975336
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 975336 in k3b (Ubuntu) "k3b refuses to erase or overwrite a blu-ray rewritable" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/k3b/+bug/975342
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 975342 in k3b (Ubuntu) "k3b does not recognise a valid blu-ray ISO" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> wow 8 bugs in under 10 minutes
<ali1234> er, 6
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Drawing a Wooden Cabinet in a GTK Application - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/06/drawing-a-wooden-cabinet-in-a-gtk-application/
<Lukan27> Hello. I need critical help on Ubuntu 11.10 on my laptop. Anyone?
<Azelphur> ?ask | Lukan27
<Azelphur> !ask | Lukan27
<lubotu3`> Lukan27: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Azelphur> hehe
<Lukan27> Okay.. I was on my laptop on Skype (texting), playing some music and updating. Went out to make a cup of coffee, and suddenly BAM, black screen with underscore in top-left corner. Hard reset, and now it won't boot (stuck at loading animation). Error checking fails.
<AlanBell> that sounds bad :(
<popey> Lukan27: at the loading animation if you press CTRL+ALT+F1 do you see a text based logon screen?
<popey> (I get this on my desktop sometimes)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Fun things to do at Easter  Unity Testing - http://popey.com/blog/2012/04/06/fun-things-to-do-at-easter-unity-testing/
<popey> \o/
<Lukan27> @popey: Nope, it clears the screen from letter etc.
<popey> its completely blank?
<Lukan27> @popey: Yes, completely black/purple screen.
<Lukan27> BTW, I'm fine with a complete reinstall, I just need some of the data on the disk to be saved. I got a Live USB and can boot it, but I don't know how to get permission to my harddisk/home folder.
<popey> Lukan27: to be honest you're better off asking in #ubuntu
<Lukan27> popey: Ok, how do I change channel?
<Lukan27> Oh, nvm ;)
<brobostigon> ohdear, i put pink floyd live, on, and my dad closes the door, :'(
<ali1234> brobostigon: isn't that the wrong way around?
<ali1234> unless you're like 60
<brobostigon> ali1234: agreed, should be. but wasnt.
<directhex> remember when you were young
<directhex> banaNAAAAAnana
<directhex> you shone like the sun
 * brobostigon still loves shine on.
<directhex> shiiiiiiiiiiiine ooooooooon you craaaaaaaaaaaazy (you crazy) diaaamond
<directhex> ba na NAAAAAA na na na
<brobostigon> i am in a way, the diamond that was once great, and withered. similerly to that song.
 * dwatkins wonders how many Pulse album boxes are still blinking
<ali1234> i could never get into that whole genre of music
<ali1234> i don't like the who either
<dwatkins> I was never paricularly into Floyd, although I liked some of their stuff
<dwatkins> The Who make amusing songs for CSI ;)
<ali1234> yes.
<ali1234> or rather YEEEEAAAAAh
<dwatkins> or maybe, CSI was made for them... *dons glasses* YEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
<brobostigon> i like the philosophy of their music, rather than direcrtly the music.
<dwatkins> curry time :D
<directhex> i love Wish You Were Here
<gordonjcp> is there an easy way to get apt to simply not install a dependency?
<gordonjcp> I notice that the Ubuntu jackd packages are somewhat broken, in that they force installation of the whole 2TB of Qt
<gordonjcp> since for some ungodly reason they require qjackctl
<ali1234> install wanted deps manually then use dpkg to install the one package ignoring deps
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: lemme know if you find out, I have an app that requires wine1.2 -.-
<ali1234> or fork the package and edit debian/control
<kvarley1> How can I install gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi in oneiric? I'm trying via apt-get but it says it has no candidate.
<ali1234> i did a fresh reinstall and updated it this morning and i still don't see skype in the dash or software center
<ali1234> also, this morning = 4pm
<bigcalm> 6 new updates since I last updated 2 hours ago
<bigcalm> Oh, and another 3 just now
<bigcalm> I guess somebody doesn't have the day off
<Laney> the US
<penguin42> the easter bunny
<bigcalm> Where?
<BigRedS> join #ubuntu-server
<BigRedS> oop
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-07
<ali1234> reading bitcoin forum... see my name... remember i sent in a bugfix
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe it's your (evil) twin
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * MartijnVdS upgrades his precise boxes
 * brobostigon crosses his fingers for MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I don't expect it to go wrong :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> i am just doing exactly the same thing.
<brobostigon> i always fear, grub updates abit, but it should go fine.
<MartijnVdS> grub updates and new kernels are the scariest, agreed :)
<brobostigon> :)
<swattor> i just upgraded - all went very successfully :-)
<mattt> feels like a great day to be doing this kinda stuff
<mattt> cept i'm cleaning the house :(
<BigRedS> yeah, grub updates are how you end up with grub 2
<popey> swattor: now to start testing! âº  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgL957zo5QM&feature=g-all-u&context=G25aeb2cFAAAAAAAAWAA
<ali1234> popey: are we supposed to test normal 12.04 or the unity ppa?
<popey> unity ppa please
<popey> using checkbox from that ppa
<popey> video explains it all I hope
<popey> would help an awful lot
<MartijnVdS> ooh the white pixel is gone
<MartijnVdS> in the second launcher(?) icon
<MartijnVdS> had it on all my machines before
<ali1234> last time i tested unity from the ppa it all worked perfectly
<ali1234> but the version in main is still broken :/
<ali1234> notably the skype notification icon always works with the ppa, never works with main
<ali1234> and there's a test specifically for that
<popey> i have found a few bugs running the ppa and testing it
<ali1234> regarding searching for bugs
<ali1234> i have noticed that trying to report a bug often finds dupes
<ali1234> but when i search using launchpad search i can never find them
<ali1234> what's the deal with that?
<popey> yeah, i just file them and let launchpad find the dupes during the filing process
<popey> you're right, its a lot quicker / more efficient
<Laney> i never use launchpad search, just google
<ali1234> hmm 400mb of updates on the netbook. might be quicker to reinstall
<ali1234> after refreshing apt, 500mb :/
<ali1234> and then update manager crashed
<popey> yeah, good point Laney
<Laney> argh
<Laney> worst time to realise your passport is missing: 2 hours before going away for a week, 4 weeks before going abroad
<popey> mine is on my desk, where I left it when I got back from the last trip âº
<penguin42> Laney: I guess it's better than finding it out 2 hours before going abroad
<Laney> at least then I'd give up hope :P
<Laney> you can get a new one in a week, so it's not the end of the world
<OmNomDePlume> Does anybody else hate those stupid Ladbrokes adverts?
<OmNomDePlume> Yeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssss!!! *stabs*
<Laney> no, I love them
<OmNomDePlume> I hate you.
<popey> Adverts? People still watch those?
<directhex> Laney, check your suit jacket pocket.
<MartijnVdS> popey: people still SEE those, you mean? :)
<diplo> afternoon all, remake of google glasses thing with ads :/
<diplo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_mRF0rBXIeg
<MartijnVdS> diplo: have you seen the "If Microsoft made Google Glasses" one?
<diplo> Nope, good ?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwModZmOzDs
<diplo> heh like it
<mumper_> Hi - I've newly installed Oneiric Ocelot and the only issue I've so far had with it its failure to keep my wireless connection if I re-boot. It doesn't heavily bother me as long as I know can re-connect - but? Comment?
<MartijnVdS> mumper_: it should automatically re-connect on login after restarting
<mumper_> Hi MartijnVds - I agree. Yet it doesn't. I've probably missed some thing, but I installed 11.10 (at Ubuntu's suggestion) whilst running an earlier version which ran very well.
<mumper_> MartijnVds: It IS just a nuisance, that's all.
<MartijnVdS> is your network "hidden" maybe?
<mumper_> MartijnVds: sorry, I could have said - I run a single HP desktop tower wirelessly connected to a v2 BT HomeHub. Is that clear enough?
<MartijnVdS> Sure, but is the network name hidden? Some people do that for "security"
<mumper_> MartijnVds: ah well. I've named the PC and I have Kodak EPS C310 al-in-one printer connected in the wireless set-up which is identified by code in the HomeHub's "wireless" list.
<MartijnVdS> mumper_: Is the wireless network listed in the drop-down on the PC, or did you have to type the name yourself?
<mumper_> MartijnVds: from what you say, I'm getting a hint that I possibly need to go over the settings in the network manager, etc?
<MartijnVdS> mumper_: Very likely, yes. But I've never seen wifi not connecting on startup
<MartijnVdS> But I don't have a "hidden ssid" network
<mumper_> MartijnVds: OK - I shall try such an investigation - I thank you very very much for your informed kindness, bye for now ...
<MartijnVdS> good luck
<OmNomDeBonBon> MartijnVdS, are you watching the match?
<OmNomDeBonBon> Villa just scored a great goal.
<MartijnVdS> Match?
<OmNomDeBonBon> Liverpool vs Aston Villa.
<oimon1> hi guys, i have a digital video camera with some clips on that i'd like to keep in a decent format on my macine, and also upload to private youtube to share with some family members, any suggestions? the dv camera is firewire - do i need to deinterlace while importing, or later on?
<gord> oimon1, if its digital, it shouldn't be interlaced at all
<oimon1> hmm gord, i must have tried this a while ago so i have some files on the machine alreayd, and any lateral movement looks v bad
<directhex> gord, sadly lots of things get recorded in interlaced anyway
<directhex> gord, there's 0 excuse for interlaced anything for the past few decades, but they still do it. i have a 1080i blu-ray somewhere
<gord> oimon1, at any rate, x264 can preserve the interlace if you don't want to destroy data, ffmpeg has plenty of options for "fixing" the interlacing also, but they are all going to be destructive. there is also webm available these days which if find useful for uploading to youtube
<oimon1> which app would be best for converting dv video to x264 for a video newbie?
<oimon1> it seems kino is still the only one to import from a firewire device
<gord> i would say that handbrake is the best video converter at the moment, but i don't know if it can read dv video, would hope so. certainly can't import from firewire
<oimon1> thanks gord, i'll try HB
<gord> you might in the end just want to learn the ffmpeg commands, they aren't too tricky. everything just uses ffmpeg under the hood anyway :)
<dogmatic69> one think I miss with screen is scrolling back, any way to get this back?
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: you can use screen's scrollback
<BigRedS> it's kludgy but the only reliable way I've found
<BigRedS> ctrl-A [, then use pgup and pgdown
<BigRedS> it's how it does copy-paste, too
<BigRedS> esc  to get out of it
<BigRedS> I keep seeing ways to make it work more intuitively with pgup/pgdn or scrollwheels but none of those seem portable enough to work from everywhere I ssh to screen
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: http://aperiodic.net/screen/quick_reference is what I keep referring to
<dogmatic69> thanks
<dogmatic69> it seems the scroll wheel is attached to history as you can use it to pick up previous commands
<dogmatic69> that is quite nice, but scrolling would be better :D
<BigRedS> you might want to put a massive value for defscrollback to get useful scrollback. I have 10240 which almost always means I have all I want and I don't get shouted at for using all the memory any more :)
<dogmatic69> on my desktop its unlimited
<BigRedS> yeah, I keep thinking that, spend about half an hour fiddling with it then give up for a bit :)
<popey> a'noon
<dogmatic69> also, ctrl+a gives me a menu
<BigRedS> ah yeah, this is a relatively low memory ssh bastion host, so it's just got everyone's screen sessions on it
<BigRedS> it does?
<dogmatic69> When you press ctrl-a in Byobu, do you want it to operate in:
<dogmatic69> emacs / screen
<dogmatic69> two options
<BigRedS> oh!
<popey> thats only the first time
<dogmatic69> :) which is better?
<BigRedS> 'emacs' is never the answer to that question :)
<dogmatic69> popey: my bug was accepted \o/
<popey> thats a vi vs emacs question
<BigRedS> nah, depends on what you want I suppose
<popey> heh
<BigRedS> If you want to be able to use screen docs you want 'screen'. If you're a freak you want emacs
<dogmatic69> ok, picked screen. now ctrl+a does nothing
<BigRedS> no, it puts it in command mode
<BigRedS> it doesn't tell you anything when it does that, though :)
<BigRedS> hit ctrl-a then " and you'll get a list of screens
<dogmatic69> oh
<BigRedS> f'rexample
<dogmatic69> that works
<BigRedS> ctrl-A is teh way to get into Screen's command mode
<BigRedS> essentially
<BigRedS> It means that screen starts listening to your keystrokes instead of passing them on to the terminal
<dogmatic69> ah, ctrl+a then [ == scroll mode
<BigRedS> yeah
<dogmatic69> then pg up/down
<dogmatic69> i see
<dogmatic69> rocket science to scroll :D
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> it becomes muscle memory oddly quickly
<BigRedS> I keep doing it in firefox
<dogmatic69> slightly more complicated than moving the scroll wheel :P
<dogmatic69> hehe
<BigRedS> ctrl-A, backspace is a bad bit of muscle memory, too :(
<dogmatic69> lol
<BigRedS> well, I'm not normally on the mouse when I'm in a terminal, so the scroll wheel's far away
<dogmatic69> ah, just the page i wanted... nevermind
<jacobw> afternoon
<MartijnVdS> *dance* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98XRKr19jIE
<BigRedS> Man, I'm always caught out by the ads on youtube
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: adblock!
<MartijnVdS> I've never seen an ad on youtube
<BigRedS> even the ones at the beginning of the video?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<BigRedS> Oh!
<BigRedS> I've not used adblock for years. I just don't go to sites where I'd want it
<BigRedS> I didn't realise it did youtube ads
<BigRedS> cunning
<MartijnVdS> you can disable it on a per-site basis :)
<BigRedS> yeah, it just all seemed like far too much faff
<BigRedS> So I just stopped installing it and then not much changed
<MartijnVdS> the one in chrome is getting very good
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, that's another thing I keep meaning to try out: chrome
<BigRedS> I've got incredibly lazy recently. As long as somethign works I generally don't give alternatives any thought
<MartijnVdS> I've got my bookmarks synced between my laptop and desktop using chrome
<MartijnVdS> that was incentive for me ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, I've not yet noticed a need to do that
<BigRedS> I think I just hardly ever use bookmarks. And I'd want to sync them to my server rather than somebody else's :)
<hamitron> I'm tempted to start running firefox remotely for that reason
<MartijnVdS> Embrace the cloud :)
<hamitron> and to also save local memory ;)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, *my* cloud :)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: can't firefox sync to a server you set up yourself?
<BigRedS> I think it can
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: You can't own clouds! ;)
<BigRedS> In fact, I'm pretty sure there's an extension that does it
<hamitron> probably
<hamitron> but my way would help the machines with not much memory
<hamitron> :)
 * MartijnVdS has 4G at work, no swap.
<MartijnVdS> RUns fine
<hamitron> 256MB
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> yeah, nothing should have problems with 4GB ram
<hamitron> gonna stick another 128MB in sometime
<BigRedS> That's a bit of a bill gatesism isn't it...
<hamitron> hehe
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I'll hold you to it.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: if I ever need more, I'll forward the invoice ;)
<shauno> BigRedS: we'll be laughing at you in 10 years time :)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> Er, nothing *current*, then :)
<BigRedS> unless it's written in Java
<hamitron> I used to think 128MB was the limit :/
<directhex> or ruby.
<directhex> ruby apps can also eat all the ram
<hamitron> but I still think everything we need could be done with 128MB ;/
<hamitron> easy
<BigRedS> yeah, but we are largely in a lull as far as an increasing insatiable need for more memory to run normal things
<BigRedS> generally, heavy stuff is done somewhere else
<directhex> used to admin a box with 1T RAM ;)
<BigRedS> We upgraded someone to 32GB on each app server the other day, which I'm still a bit baffled by
<BigRedS> I mean, you can fit an OS into that about four times over
<BigRedS> Anyway, quick straw poll: how do you decide whether any given package goes in /usr/local or /opt?
<hamitron> a very small program with a loop can soon eat loads ;)
<BigRedS> the FHS nicely avoids distinguishing between the two, and just gives them quite similar descriptions
<hamitron> I put self contained apps in /opt
<hamitron> then custom non-packaged "unix like" package in local
<BigRedS> and scripts and stuff in /usr/local ?
<hamitron> brb phone
<BigRedS> yeah. I just found a JRE in /usr/local after installing another into /opt
<hamitron> bk
<hamitron> imo, just best to be organised how you want BigRedS :)
<hamitron> I hate it when someone tells me I did something wrong, just because I did it different to them
<hamitron> when it is a matter of preference
<yogiman> Hi folks, what the general option on Unity?
<BigRedS> well, I was just wondering how everyone else interpreted it
<BigRedS> yogiman: option? or opinion? :)
<yogiman> Sorry typo, opinion
<yogiman> :)
<hamitron> I've heard it is amazing
<hamitron> also heard it has problems
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, reactions seem very mixed
<yogiman> Well not sure I would go with amazing, possibly is if you are using it on a tablet
<BigRedS> I find it absolutely fine, except for when it annoyes me
<hamitron> I'll be trying it once 12.04 is out to make my own opinion ;)
<BigRedS> and then it's _really_ annoying
<BigRedS> did you really just come here to start *another* unity argument?
<BigRedS> they're getting more tedious that Christians Vs Atheists
<BigRedS> *than
<hamitron> hehe
<yogiman> Not looking for an argument, just wondering what peoples thoughts were and if I am looking at this from the wrong perspective.
<BigRedS> at least with them there's the genuine problem of eternal hellfire
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> yeah, some people find it fine, others dislike it
<BigRedS> as with everything Ubuntu and GUI related the opinions are peculiarly noisy :)
<BigRedS> Personally, I prefer Gnome3 generally, but not by enough to have actually installed it on my Ubuntu machine
<yogiman> Is it just me or are they pushing this more towards tablet users rather than desktop users, it seems that I spend more time doing things now than I ever did in Gnome2
<hamitron> I never liked Gnome2, and haven't tried Gnome3 or Unity yet.... so I'll be interested to see how I find it
<hamitron> I put it down to being used to working a certain way
<hamitron> and change is always effort
<BigRedS> yogiman: it's just you IMO. I think they just had too many E numbers at some of the design meetings :)
<hamitron> :D
<yogiman> Well I figured it was just me, the wiffy trout always says so!
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> In general, though, I'm having trouble seeing the major problem this sudden overhaul of DEs fixes
<yogiman> What does it fix
<BigRedS> except for the fact that hierarchical menus aren't a good way of finding software
<yogiman> everything seems fine to me
<BigRedS> I mean, we've had two brand-new DEs in about a year and we're still using network mangler
<BigRedS> misplaced priorities :)
<yogiman> but is typing the title a good way?
<BigRedS> well, I still just use alt-f2 so I'd say 'yes'
<BigRedS> they're not mutually exclusive
<yogiman> fair point
<BigRedS> but menus are bad for people who know what they're looking for and bad for people who don't
<BigRedS> they're good for people who know where in the menu the thing they're looking for is
<yogiman> I would agree but there seem to have been much better options that the supplied launcher.
<BigRedS> Really? The launcher seems alright to me
<yogiman> of course thats just my 2 penny worth and I don't even listen to myself.
<popey> 16:52:59 < yogiman> Well not sure I would go with amazing, possibly is if you are using it on a tablet
<popey> aaarrrrgh
<BigRedS> well, except for the hypercorrecting
<popey> try it
<popey> it's _rubbish_ on a tablet :D
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, I've never understood why increasing reliance on the keyboard would make it more tablet orientated
<yogiman> surely something like AWN would have sufficed or is that generally hated.
<BigRedS> I don't know. Can it not be used with unity?
<BigRedS> Personally, i'd not like it
<BigRedS> I've tried docks before and they also feel like a really lazy approach to the problem
<BigRedS> "We need to launch programs somehow. Oh, let's make buttons to click on for it. Okay"
<yogiman> Well at present I have made the assumption not.  As I don't think you can remove the existing Launcher.
<BigRedS> why couldn't you do both?
 * BigRedS doesn't play with DEs or WMs very much
<yogiman> OK but if you don't have a launcher and you don't want menus then psychic powers perhaps is the answer!
<BigRedS> nah, I want to hit a button, type what I want and have it appear
<BigRedS> which is sort-of what the launcher does
<BigRedS> sometimes
<yogiman> I prefer my wife to hit the button, while serving up a brew ;-)
<BigRedS> haha
<yogiman> OK well as I say don't want to start an argument, just wanted some other opinions and you guys have been great, thanks for your words people :)
<hamitron> think I'm going back to LXDE, from fluxbox
<BigRedS> I keep trying LXDE. Each time I decide it's not worth the faff and go back to plain *box :)
<yogiman> We could always go back to GEM
<BigRedS> and then get annoyed with that not being pretty and go back to a full-blown DE
<hamitron> I can't really do that on this machine
<hamitron> ;)
<yogiman> not sure I am over bothered about pretty, but functional would be nice.
<hamitron> tbh, LXDE seems to just work
<hamitron> reminds me of the win95 menu
<yogiman> oh not Dimdows please..... :(
<hamitron> which is probably my personal favourite :)
<BigRedS> haha! You pervert!
<yogiman> Can't remember which distro I was playing with but had one a while back where menu was on right mouse click, that was odd
<Twinkletoes|H> I can mount an admin share from a windows box OK using the mount command, and can see the contents.  However, when using autofs (and testing with autmount -f -v), the directory is mounted, but not showing any contents.  There are no errors either.
<BigRedS> most of the *boxes do that; openbox, fluxbox, blackbox
<hamitron> XFCE does too?
<hamitron> a while since I used XFCE
<hamitron> so not 100% sure
<yogiman> Oh ok that makes sense why I haven't seen it since
<hamitron> I've used fluxbox for over a month now
<hamitron> can live with it
<hamitron> but not really the best for me
<BigRedS> Twinkletoes|H: How are you checking for the share's mountedness?
<BigRedS> and also for its contents?
<Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: ls -al /path/to/share
<BigRedS> I may well be no help here, but there's a narrow chance I can help :)
<Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: autofs creates the mountpoint, but there' snothing inside
<BigRedS> path to share or path to mountpoint?
<Twinkletoes|H> mountpoint
<hamitron> I'll leave you guys in peace to sort out the problem
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> Is this on a headless machine? I've recollection of Gnome/whatever getting inthe way of automount until specific things try to access it
<Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: Ubuntu Server, no gnome
<BigRedS> Hm, I've no idea then I'm afraid. AFAIK that should Just Work but I've never actually done it
<Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: I can paste the config, but I don't understand why it mounts ok, but doesn't display the files, and I'm using "Administrator" as the login too
<Twinkletoes|H> (and a credentials file)
<djbenny> afternoon
<BigRedS> Twinkletoes|H: yeah, not sure I could be much more help even with a config file tbh.
<Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: Thanks anyway :)
<djbenny> does anhyone have any idea of any Linux trainin courses in the UK, distance learning?
<djbenny> all i can find is basic stuff, which i knowq how to do
<BigRedS> djbenny: what sort of thing, then?
<BigRedS> specific certificates?
<djbenny> well yeah a professional qualification
<BigRedS> Ubuntu sell distance-learning LPIC courses
<BigRedS> well, UCP, which is LPCI with a Ubuntu exam on top
<djbenny> ah ok, where do they sell that stu
<djbenny> them*
<Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: Solved... it didn't like to mount admin shared (ie. D$)  even though mount from the command line would work ok
<Twinkletoes|H> I wonder if it's something that's happening to the $ on the end of the auto map
<BigRedS> Oh! It doesn't do LPIC any more. But Canonical's training stuff is here: http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=21
<BigRedS> Twinkletoes|H: oh! So subdirs work or something?
<Twinkletoes|H> BigRedS: seems like anythign works as long as it's not an damin shre... C$, D$ etc....
<BigRedS> oh, fair enough
<BigRedS> odd
<BigRedS> I've long since stopped trying to understand windows file sharing :)
<Twinkletoes|H> Don't blame you
<djbenny> BigRedS, cheers, i looked on the canocial website
<djbenny> although i was looking for a more broad spectrum, of not just ubuntu
<BigRedS> yeah, teh LPIC is pretty broad
<BigRedS> and now not what you get from Canonical
<BigRedS> well, it's not distro-specific
<BigRedS> what sort of stuff are you after?
<BigRedS> server/desktop admin? networking? programming?
<djbenny> server
<djbenny> desktop admin
<djbenny> with least amount of programming possible :P
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> well, you can't get that far into it without doing some scripting :)
<djbenny> not the biggest fan of programming
<BigRedS> but, yeah, that's the sort of thing lpic's aimed at. but most certification is aimed at people who teach themselves
<BigRedS> well, that's the normal assumption; get a book, study from it, sit the exam
<djbenny> ok cheers
<djbenny> thanks for the help
 * MartijnVdS finishes soldering for the day
<BigRedS> hah
<BigRedS> that has to be the most roundabout way to get a sorted list of human-readable directory sizes
<BigRedS> du -sh `du -s * | sort -rn | awk '{print $NF}'`
<shauno> (and breaks if names contain spaces ;)
<BigRedS> haha, yeah
<BigRedS> it's of /home so they don't
<BigRedS> I just hit enter then realised what I'd concocted
<dwatkins> BigRedS: handy, I usually just use 'du -k' or 'du -ak | sort -rn'
<BigRedS> I've just seen sort has a -h
<BigRedS> compare human readable numbers (e.g., 2K 1G)
<BigRedS> Hah, it didn't in Lenny. I feel less bad about having not noticed that before
<dwatkins> oh neat :)
<popey> Evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
 * MartijnVdS ponders buying/making a solar battery charger
<MartijnVdS> option 2: using the hub dynamo on my bike
<MartijnVdS> option 3: just recharge everything at night in hotel/b&b rooms
<MartijnVdS> (I'm going to cycle around the Netherlands in September -- 1300km )
<BigRedS> I've not yet come across a dynamo that didn't feel like a complete waste of energy
<BigRedS> if you're staying in actual buildings I'd just charge there, perhaps with an auxiliary battery just in case
<dwatkins> Adafruit sell a solar cell and the mintyboost which should charge USB devices if there's enough sun, in theory.
<BigRedS> yeah, but then you're just asking to be rained on for the whole trip
<dwatkins> True, I'd be interested in knowing how well it copes in various conditions, might get me one to try out, and make a box to charge a phone in.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: This one is always on I think
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: and because it's in the hub, you don't feel it (like a bottle dynamo)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Yeah, I've managed to find some cool things on adafruit and sparkfun
<BigRedS> ah yeah, forgot about hub dynamos
<BigRedS> despite you mentioning it initially :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: :)
<MartijnVdS> I need to power a GPS logger as well.. unless I can power my phone during the ride
<MartijnVdS> (and find a way to mount my phone in a water-proof way)
<dwatkins> I'm really interested to know how bright this is: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dynamodirk/magnic-light-get-new-energy
<MartijnVdS> good thing it isn't September yet
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: depends on the magnets. Good neodymium ones should be able to supply quite a bit of power
<BigRedS> I've seen mock-ups of those that're pretty poor
<BigRedS> as in home-made efforts
<BigRedS> but these flashing ones people're using now seem as bright as the flashing battery ones, so they should be OK
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37e_OROP9dA
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that's the same effect
<dwatkins> I don't like flashing [front] bike lights, they make a bike visible, but blind drivers. They don't really illuminate the road/path either.
<gord> anything that flashes is always annoying
<BigRedS> I find that constant lights are generally much less well placed than flashing ones
<BigRedS> I've always advocated the 'moving' lights
<BigRedS> quick search doesn't find a video, but the knight rider style ones
<BigRedS> ld600s do it
<dwatkins> yeah, I have a rear light that does a 'knight rider' thing up and down, that works well at making me more visible
<dwatkins> When I'm cycling home along the canal path, I want a light that'll illuminate the path and any dogs people are taking for a walk with no lead.
<dwatkins> If the people themselves are stupid enough to go out in the pitch black without any lights or reflective gear, that's their problem ;)
<penguin42> dwatkins: Have you noticed that dogs seem to be getting smaller? Some you find in cities are >tiny<, you can just be walking along minding your own business, and if you're not careful you could completely squash one
<dwatkins> yeah penguin42 - although some dogs have nifty LED collars
<dwatkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygasOBHBhgI&feature=fvst
<penguin42> dwatkins: That's very very odd
<dwatkins> the collars are odd, penguin42?
<penguin42> oh just a pack of flashing dogs
<penguin42> dwatkins: I mean wouldn't be easier to give them that glowing jelly fish gene?
<madpup> So next quick question i have a M5A99x mobo and i cant get lm-sensors to work, sensors-detect finds the it87 sensor chip but modprobe says no such device? do i have to pass an argument to it87 to say which version it it?
<dwatkins> penguin42: I thought that meant they ended up having no fur
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Translation Help Needed! How To Translate Ubuntu Accomplishments - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/07/translation-help-needed-how-to-translate-ubuntu-accomplishments/
<dogmatic69> anyone on 12.04 that can suspend properly? If I click suspend it either logs me out or reboots.
 * bigcalm grabs his laptop to find out
<bigcalm> How recently did you upgrade?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: I have the latests and greatest of 12.04, also been a problem since 12.04b2 was out
<dogmatic69> not that i tried b1 or earlier
<bigcalm> It was find for me last night
<Laney> how 'bout that boat race :O
<bigcalm> Did somebody sink?
<Laney> in a manner of speaking
<bigcalm> Did you lose a lot of money betting?
<Laney> someone managed to swim into the middle of the river and stop the race
<Laney> and then there was a collision and one of oxford's blades broke, gifting cambridge the race
<dogmatic69> lol
<dwatkins> flail
<Laney> and then at the end one of oxford's rowers passed out
<bigcalm> Nice
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: you can suspend ok?
<bigcalm> Sorry, got side tracked :)
<dogmatic69> hehe
<dogmatic69> np
 * bigcalm sleeps
<dogmatic69> what package handles shutdown / suspend etc?
<hamitron> upstart?
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Thing is it's a bunch of things - upstart, pm-utils, the kernel etc
<dogmatic69> just need one for a bug report. best guess for suspend
<dogmatic69> bug 976276
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 976276 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Suspend either logs out or reboots, not suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/976276
<dogmatic69> I was just thinking, could it be that my swap is too small to suspend?
<BigRedS> That'd be a dumb way to react if it was
<dwatkins> I could understand a failed suspend locking the screen.
<dogmatic69> here is another one, If I ctrl+alt+l (lock screen) I can still see the title bar of the app last used and the dock on the left
<dogmatic69> that seems like a possible security issue.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-08
<dwatkins> ah, I'm only on Oneric, so I can't reproduce that.
<dwatkins> are you on 12.04, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dwatkins> I've observed issues with suspend on earlier Ubuntu versions which manifest as the screen just getting locked. Not seen a logout happen before.
<dogmatic69> My pc died and figured it was a good time to make the move. When I saw the HUD thing I was sold
<dogmatic69> ye, it is just like I clicked logout or restart. never suspend
<dogmatic69> I am glad for SSD and fast boots. hate waiting for startup
<dwatkins> yeah, even my hybrid disk seems a lot faster than a HDD
<nif> help
<nif> HELP
<nif> --HELP
<sagaci> ?
<nif> --help
<nif> srry :( mistake
<MartijnVdS> HALP
<Myrtti> morning seems to have an exciting start, I've just filed a bug for a kernel oops in precise and my nephew broke a mirror in his room.
<Myrtti> let's see if I could manage to acquire a third degree burn on making tea for myself, and cut myself on the head when tripping on a carpet and hitting my head on a table edge
<Myrtti> lets, even.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<StevenR> *sigh* firefox ate half my open tabs due to repeated crashyness :(
<dwatkins> Myrtti: time to do backups? ;)
<Myrtti> dwatkins: am at my sisters now and don't have my backup disk with me :-|
<dwatkins> Myrtti: bah, I guess you can't just rsync then.
<Myrtti> I suppose it's time to set up dejadup to ubuntuone for immediate relief
<Myrtti> whoop my kerneloops bug has been confirmed
<Myrtti> \o/
<ed3245678> hi
<ed3245678> anyone uses 3 mobile broadband here?
<ed3245678> with linux?
<brobostigon> i sometimes tether my htc dream, which i have with three atm, to my netbook, yes.
<ed3245678> are u having a problem with porn sites blocked on three?
<ed3245678> actually I dont really want to browse port but the proxy sites are blocked too
<brobostigon> yes, but it isnt a problem, it makes sense, as they have no idea, who can get hold of it, and what material they could look at.
<BigRedS> with T-Mobile I just had to phone them and ask them to remove the block and they did
<BigRedS> that's on a contract, so they know my age
<dwatkins> I noticed various sites are blocked from three's tethering or directly from my phone
<ed3245678> the thing is my laptop is dual boot, I also have xp, with xp I can browse anything, there is no restrictions of any kind
<BigRedS> apparently it's on by default just to stop people stumbling across it
<BigRedS> not, uh, that I was trying to google goat porn
<ed3245678> this actually has started maybe a week ago, the blocking I mean, though xp still works fine (same dongle and same sim card)
<ed3245678> anyone know why? and how to fix it?
<BigRedS> I'd guess 3 are the best people to ask
<brobostigon> ring three, and ask them to remove said block, as suggested.
<ed3245678> but there is no block when I try to browse using win xp
<ed3245678> ?
<BigRedS> you seem oddly sure that somebody here will speak up and explain how 3's content filter works...
<ed3245678> I though people will know how to fool it
<brobostigon> an ssh tunnel ?
<MartijnVdS> move to the Netherlands, we have net neutrality ;)
<BigRedS> Oh, yeah, ssh tunnel's normally the way round that
<ed3245678> Ok I am a noob, whats ssh tunnel?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I just tried to come up with a "yeah, but you also have..." and was stumped....
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: we have Euros!
<BigRedS> Yeah, that'll do!
 * BigRedS laughs at MartijnVdS's currency
<MartijnVdS> ...
 * BigRedS laughs at MartijnVdS's currency
<BigRedS> oop, wrong up+enter
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<BigRedS> Oh man. I just spent about 45 mins debugging a 'return' I'd left in the wrong place last time I worked on this
<BigRedS> there should be a way to make Vim show the word 'return' in 40-ft tall neon lettering
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: gvim probably can
<BigRedS> Yeah, it did just occur to me that you can make it simply highlight all ocurrences of a search term
<jacobw> yus
 * jacobw notes that his speedtest.net result has increased to 12Mbps from ~8Mbps while he has been in France
<jacobw> I should go to France more often :P
<dwatkins> clearly, jacobw
<prenzip> hi
<prenzip> ?
<jacobw> hi
<jacobw> !ask
<lubotu3`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<dwatkins> !hostname
<lubotu3`> Use hostname <somehostname> to set the hostname, or to do it permanently: edit /etc/hosts to include BOTH the old and new hostname and then change /etc/hostname to the new one. WARNING! Make sure that your current hostname and /etc/hosts match, otherwise sudo may not work properly.
<dwatkins> thankyou bot
<prenzip> hi
<Laney> life of brian â quality easter viewing
<MartijnVdS> Bwian?
<prenzip> http://postimage.org/gallery/uw4fimq/
<prenzip> Heres a portion of my British collection of coins and bank notes
<prenzip> these all hail from your land
<OmNomDePlume> lol I'm listening to the commentary on Sky Sports and the guy is complaining live on air about the microphone.
<OmNomDePlume> "I don't care if we're going out live or not, ...*muffled*"
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: famous last words :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jacobw> evening
<MartijnVdS> your evening starts early, jacobw :)
<MartijnVdS> It's not even evening here in .nl ;)
<jacobw> you're correct
 * jacobw wonders how you make this distinction on a day when you're not at work
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: By looking at a clock ;)
<jacobw> evening is after work which is morning then afternoon
<jacobw> hmm, clocks are relative.
<shauno> time is an illusion.  lunchtime, doubly so.
<penguin42> especially when I tend to wake up at about midday when I don't work
 * MartijnVdS wakes up around 6am
<MartijnVdS> every day
<MartijnVdS> without an alarm
<MartijnVdS> even if I've been drinking :(
<penguin42> the worst part is that having been off for a little over a week now, on Tuesday I'm going to have to get up at 8am :-(
<jacobw> penguin42: teacher?
<penguin42> jacobw: No, just a softie
<popey> evening
<brobostigon> evening popey
<Laney> good day
<MartijnVdS> </easter dinmer> ? :)
<MartijnVdS> nn*
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're online twice in my G+/GTalk list
<MartijnVdS> popey: one is the account with "I don't check this" written on your face :)
<Laney> bah, I might give in and migrate too
<Laney> some people got my incorrect email address from G+ and as a result I missed their messages
<jacobw> that's annoying :|
<Laney> suppose I could forward it to my normal address
<jacobw> Forward the address which sent mail that you missed.
<Laney> i would rather solve the problem forever than in just once instance
<popey> MartijnVdS: I am online in empathy
<bigcalm> Evening peeps
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: suspend works just find for me
<dogmatic69> oh there is something new on 12.04
<dogmatic69> plugged in my iPhone and this happened http://i.imgur.com/bf7EP.png
<BigRedS> ooh
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I suspended for you
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: and, it worked?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: that did not happen 2 days ago
<bigcalm> Yes, read up :)
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> must be my tiny swap
<bigcalm> I accepted defaults when installing
<dogmatic69> I only have 64gig SSD so did not want to make the recommended 2x ram swap
<bigcalm> I have a 120gb ssd and it works fine
<bigcalm> Even on my work station with has a 60gb ssd, I chose the defaults
<BigRedS> Does the installer default to swap = 2xRAM?
<bigcalm> Nope
<bigcalm> My swap == RAM
<penguin42> 2xRAM is very very old Unix folklore advice
<BigRedS> Oh, good. That'd have made me unhappy.
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, it's also dumb, which is why I was hoping it wasn't what the installer did
<BigRedS> dumb in the 'not smart' sense of the term, not as in harmful
<penguin42> BigRedS: It kind of made sense back in SunOS days when apparently at one stage to allocate memory it actually required a corresponding disc page, and when memories were in the order of 8MB
<BigRedS> yeah, I know where it came from
<BigRedS> I've been noisly advocating ignoring that 'advice' for a few years :)
<Laney> bug #976198 is remarkably annoying
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 976198 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics (Ubuntu) "touchpad does not work after suspend" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/976198
<ravibn> Hi! I need help with a C++ program I am running Maverick
<ravibn> anyone here pl respond
<BigRedS> ravibn: respond to what? You've not asked a question :)
<BigRedS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<BigRedS> I might well not be able to help, but we wont know until you let us know what the problem is
<ravibn> BigRed5 : Here is my http://pastebin.com/qQvhg5Fz c++ prog
<ravibn> BigRed5 : it is suppose to core dump, but I am just getting a floating point execption
<ravibn> BigRed5 : is there some place I need to look for the core dump ?
<ravibn> BigRed5 : usually it core dumps to the same directory where I have the executable
<BigRedS> well, you're dividing by zero
<BigRedS> but, in short, I really don't know
<BigRedS> It may be worth trying #ubuntu, or something more c++ oritentated
<BigRedS> or just here during the day :)
<ravibn> BigRedS : Alright save your breath
<hamitron> http://cs.baylor.edu/~donahoo/tools/gdb/tutorial.html
<dogmatic69> penguin42: when I was running 10.10 the default installed with 24gigs of swap
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Thing is it's surprisingly hard to come up with a generic good rule of thumb; for something with a small amount of RAM, 2xRAM isn't a bad guess - but once you get to many GB of RAM it gets silly
<dogmatic69> ye
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: what!? How much ram did you havE?
 * penguin42 guesses 12 ?
<BigRedS> I thought we noted that the installer was less drunk than that?
<dogmatic69> I think because I has / as 1TB + masses of ram, installer figured SWAP ALL THE THINGS
<BigRedS> yeah, but more swap is not a *good* thing
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: same system as now, just new hdd. 8 gigs
<BigRedS> enough to comfortably hibernate into
<dogmatic69> ye, that is why I told it no, and made it 4gigs this time. I think 10 would be right
<dogmatic69> so it can hibernate the entire 8gigs plus some breathing room
<BigRedS> yeah, but another 16GB of breathing room?
<dogmatic69> I know. that was 10.10 installed around the day it came out
<dogmatic69> not beta, the actual 10.10
<dogmatic69> http://paste.ubuntu.com/921054/
<dogmatic69> oooh. that is nice
<penguin42> once you're more than 1GB into swap you're machine is probably going to be grinding like hell anyway - unless it's just a gentle slow leak
<dogmatic69> did not like the old pastebinit
<dogmatic69> penguin42: I know that. but I cant hibernate now with 4gigs of swap.
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Can you hibernate with a swapfile?
<dogmatic69> With 8gigs of ram, if you are swapping you are doing something wrong
<dogmatic69> penguin42: I have read hibernate puts the contents of ram into swap
<dogmatic69> well tries.
<penguin42> dogmatic69: I occasionally hit swap on my 8GB machine; only if I'm doing something very heavy; like big 3d stuff
<BigRedS> I get the feeling we're all going round in circles emphatically agreeing with each other
<penguin42> dogmatic69: But swapfiles should let you do that?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: same :D
<BigRedS> hm. 12.04 is released on my mum's birthday
<penguin42> pressy sorted then
<BigRedS> haha
<hamitron> !12.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) is the 16th release of Ubuntu and is in Beta testing from 2nd March, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<hamitron> what day? ;)
 * hamitron needs to make sure he reserves some download limit
<BigRedS> see if I can 26th
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> no, just '26th'
<dogmatic69> will it be easy to update from 12.04 to 12.10 and 13.10?
<BigRedS> I imagine so
<BigRedS> though not for a while
<dogmatic69> I am not a fan of being locked into outdated apps :D
 * hamitron isn't a fan of having to change
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> same. if it was not for the HUD I would still be on 10.10 or looking at mint etc
<dogmatic69> was happy with the non mac clone type UI
<hamitron> be my first experience of Unity
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-01
<MartijnVdS> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2013-March/010062.html
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^ seen that announcement? ;)
<popey> yeah
<popey> trying to avoid as many fools as possible
<MartijnVdS> popey: better stay off the interwebs then :)
<popey> there is that
<czajkowski> aloha
<kvarley> I'm setting up a backup system for my parents laptops. Should I use rsync or owncloud or both or something else?
<MartijnVdS> Linux-only: Half-Life 4 - http://steamdb.info/app/800/#section_info
<MartijnVdS> (sorry popey :))
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<SuperMatt> any sim city players in here?
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<SuperMatt> yes, I should have guessed
<MartijnVdS> I played the first SimCity
<MartijnVdS> and SC2K
<SuperMatt> I guess I'll just  have to play with myself :(
<directhex> i have simcity for SNES.
<directhex> it has bowser attack as a disaster
<MartijnVdS> directhex: instead of godzilla?
<directhex> and this guy giving advice http://www.catchynamenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/sims3uo3.png
<ikonia> loved sim city on the snes
<ikonia> loving the new one on the PC too (sad to admit)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: would it be possible for us to add a little more detail to http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/ please?
<bigcalm> Oh, looks like I can do it :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: popey: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/ text updated. Please feel free to edit as required :)
 * bigcalm looks for a hotel in Farnham that isn't the Hotel de Vie
<bigcalm> Put "hotels in farnham" into google maps. Results include "Farnham Tyre and Exhaust Specialists"
<bigcalm> Searching on google maps used to be useful :(
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: maybe they have a bed for you though?
<kvarley> Is it possible to set kernel parameters after boot?
<kvarley> I want to disable ipv6 on the kernel
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: sometimes.. and you don't want to disable ipv6
<MartijnVdS> really, you don't.
<MartijnVdS> you might want to disable SLAAC
<MartijnVdS> (which you can do through /etc/sysctl.*
<MartijnVdS> http://blackundertone.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/ipv6-static-address-on-ubuntu/
<kvarley> Thanks
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ta for the RT. Hope people show some interest :)
<bigcalm> Wondering if I shouldn't have mentioned the stag do bit in my tweet
<brobostigon> ch5,13:15, dr who and the daleks,
<kvarley> bigcalm: Never knew you were a web developer! :)
<bigcalm> kvarley: it's true
<popey> bigcalm: booked!
<bigcalm> popey: yippie :)
<bigcalm> popey: I'm still hunting for a hotel. Searching on Google maps is pants. Any recommendations for places in Farnham?
<popey> You're welcome to kip here if you don't mind a sofa bed
<bigcalm> popey: that's very kind of you, thanks. Might take up the offer if I struggle with hotels (thinking of driving down Friday evening and back Sunday afternoon).
<kvarley> bigcalm: If a framework is MIT licensed, do I have to put an explicit message in the footer of my website or is the license in the code enough?
<bigcalm> kvarley: I've never looked into the MIT licence
<bigcalm> Websites tend not to specify the framework they are built upon
<directhex> kvarley, license in code is enough
<kvarley> directhex: Thanks :)
<lorenzohdT> hi
<bigcalm> Blue Shift and Opposing Forces are out on linux steam. Happy days :)
<MartijnVdS> they are?
<MartijnVdS> they are!
<MartijnVdS> HL2: Death Match as well
<MartijnVdS> *hope HL2 itself will be out soon*
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MartijnVdS> hl2 has the same problem as tf2
<popey> 16:17:39 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You have too many channels registered.
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<RadiumCat> lol cute :)
<LjL> niven.freenode.net * You have too many channels joined
<dogmatic69> is it possible to have a script on server A and run that on server B from server A?
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: ssh user@servera ./myscript
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: thanks
<Azelphur> :)
<shauno> it needs to go the other way around if the script you want to run isn't on the machine you want to run it on.  ssh user@host bash <script.sh will run a local script on the remote machine
<amayer> popey: are you the one that has a camera set up that takes pics every 5 min or so and uploads them to a website? (im working on a project that needs to do just that)
<popey> amayer: i have done that
<amayer> my boss wants me to buy 3 cameras to do just that and im wondering if you ran into any problems that i should look out for
<amayer> (im probably going to have to go with a windows system tho. my boss says since we paid for all the MS licenses that we should use them)
<popey> cant really help on windows
<amayer> ok well thanks anyway
<bigcalm> Is there an easy way to grep irclogs for this channel?
<BigRedS> curl + wget?
<BigRedS> er
<BigRedS> curl + grep
<bigcalm> That's a lot of log files to fetch
 * bigcalm pokes google some more
<popey> anything in particular you're looking for?
<popey> might be faster for someone with local logging to grep
<bigcalm> I remember having a conversation with somebody about managing a 48bit integer in PHP
<bigcalm> I came up with one way, they came up with another using 'bitwise' I _think_
<MartijnVdS> BUT VHY!?!
<bigcalm> Why what?
<MartijnVdS> 48-bit ints
<MartijnVdS> what's wrong with 64 bits ;)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I'm dealing with a 3rd party's API which expects a 48 bit integer, split into 16bit and 32bit integers
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<bigcalm> Anybody with local logging able to help? :)
<popey> nothing here
<bigcalm> It might have been 21st Jan
<popey> looked for your nick, 48 and bit
<MartijnVdS> Local logging?
<MartijnVdS> ah IRC logging
 * MartijnVdS wondered about the forest
<bigcalm> That date it from looking at git commits for when I added the function
 * popey prints out his irc logs to kill the forest
<bigcalm> :D
<MartijnVdS> In case you have an Arduino lying around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dyuT8N08zM
<bigcalm> This is fun. Just added a debug statement to the 3rd party code to see what the end result was of the data I sent it. I sent a value of 75, it reports it as 28896. Something's up
<MartijnVdS> up a lot 8-)
<ali1234> bigcalm it wasn't in this channel
<SuperEngineer> can someone tell the jet stream to obey the
<SuperEngineer> ubuntu code of conduct
<brobostigon> lol
<SuperEngineer> ...as in friendly to all....
<SuperEngineer> ... coz right now I'm ducking dreezing!
<brobostigon> interesting avoidnce of colourful language.
<brobostigon> avoidance*
<TheOpenSourcerer> clucking bell brobostigon!
<brobostigon> lol, :)
<SuperEngineer> âº
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: are you joining us this year? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks bigcalm - didn't know it was arranged already. Will check diary and book later. I have to get on a expand a customer's VM by 100GB right now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/a/and
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: organising my stag do turned into organising the ubuntu-uk outing
 * AlanBell booked a ticket \o/
<brobostigon> RAT
<bigcalm> Yay :)
<bigcalm> Why doesn't my photo appear next to my comments I wonder
<bigcalm> ?
<AlanBell> gravatar?
<AlanBell> no, it is your launchpad photo
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~iain-cuthbertson
<popey> pulls from there
<AlanBell> http://techlaze.com/2012/03/richard-stallman-to-launch-his-own-fashion-line/
<ali1234> this stuff gets worse
<bigcalm> popey: To which I have added a mug shot
<Sionbuntu> Can anybody tell me how I can fix a new screen resolution which prevents me from seeing anything on my display?
<bigcalm> popey: Ah, is the image my 'logo' from the branding page instead?
<AlanBell> Sionbuntu: if you boot up into a recovery kernel one of the options is to go to a safe graphics mode
<AlanBell> Sionbuntu: hold down shift as you boot up to get the grub menu to display
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - Facebook pone due out soon ....  nah!
<SuperEngineer> *phone
<zleap> hi
<zleap> tombrough,you need to register to enter #raspberrypi
<zleap> tom type /msg nickserv help register
<SuperEngineer> So... did you all work the answer to my April Fool posting?
<Myrtti> no one has yet finished the freenode April's Fool totally
 * SuperEngineer shuts down for tonight - see you later folks
<mungbean> found myself tidying shelves in hobbycraft today...i don't even work there :S
<daftykins> mungbean: :D
<daftykins> what's a 'hobbycraft' ? chain of the name suggests, selling models etc?
<daftykins> when i clothes shop (very rare) i fold the clothes back up again so i often get asked if i work there :( heh
<zleap> shops there is one in newton abbot i think
<mungbean> hobbycraft is an awesome shop because it sells stuff to ladies (wool, knitting, craft stuff), and there's a mens models section
<mungbean> so you can peruse at your leisure
<mungbean> today i spent Â£2.15 on some tamiya tape and felt guilty. then my wife came downstairs with Â£30 worth of wool and other gubbins
<mungbean> a lot of the model kits were in the wrong sections so i did some tidying
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> then you quickly added items so you were spending Â£30 too?
<mungbean> no i dont like spending Â£Â£ on myself
<daftykins> :o
<Myrtti> mungbean: I've taken the habit of cleaning Morrison's onion boxes from manky onions and dry skins :-D
<Myrtti> and no I don't work at Morrisons
<mungbean> i almolst made some recommendations to other people too
<daftykins> i always want to tell people to run away in local computer places if i hear them getting bad advice
<mungbean> where  a safe archive of older versions of android apk?
<mungbean> e.g. old kindle app apk thhat i can trust
<daftykins> mungbean: some problem with the latest?
<mungbean> yeah on x86 android
<daftykins> oh crikey
<mungbean> jonathan creek new episode? thats why so quiet
<brobostigon> for the new dr who it was quieter,
 * popey is recording Jonathan Creek
<czajkowski> it's very good
<czajkowski> http://www.mickperrin.com/tours/view/193
<czajkowski> he's in wolverhampton!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: you wanted reminding of http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/ :)
<popey> czajkowski: http://www.comedy.co.uk/news/story/000001073/bbc_order_new_jonathan_creek_series/
<czajkowski> bigcalm: look who's bought tickets :)
<czajkowski> popey: ohhh \o/ yay
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Jon has, hope you're coming too :D
<czajkowski> yeah ticket has been purchased for me :)
<bigcalm> Is it September yet?!
<bigcalm> Oh, several things yet to do
<bigcalm> Still looking for a special set of cufflinks
<mungbean> that do what bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> mungbean: look special
<czajkowski> bigcalm: penguins, tardis?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: oo, possibly. Have only been looking in high street shops so far
<czajkowski> amazon
<czajkowski> ebay
<mungbean> tateosshttps://www.tateossian.com/category/1009/cufflinks/2.html
<popey> bigcalm: http://popey.com/~alan/dalek.jpg :D
<bigcalm> :O
<popey> they have been sat on my desk for a year or more
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quality-Green-Circuit-Board-Cufflinks/dp/B0045KEOXU - though an image rather than actual boards
<popey> they're not circuits
<popey> they're pictures of circuits
<bigcalm> popey: note the text I wrote after the link :)
<popey> ah âº
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silver-Cufflinks-Links-Master-Engineer/dp/B005SV50Y2
<bigcalm> Imagine what I could have hanging from my cuffs
<popey> bigcalm: 3d print some âº
<bigcalm> Heh, there are chameleon cufflinks (searched for linux cufflinks)
<moreati> bigcalm: a 3D relief of the QR code for your website or public key on one cuff, small ink well on the other
<bigcalm> Hey moreati, not seen you in here before. Nice idea about the ink well. I still don't like QR codes though
<Myrtti> bigcalm: yeah, I bought the blue ones for dsample as valentines present and they went through the wash cycle after first use, and the picture faded a bit under the resin
<moreati> bigcalm: seen http://boingboing.net/2013/03/28/the-namikipilot-vanishing-poi.html btw?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: more reason to avoid images or colours. Need something solid
<Azelphur> Anyone here happen to know what the deal is with t-mobiles fair usage policy on mobile?
<bigcalm> moreati: oh, the retractable fp? They do look tasty :)
<Azelphur> as usual the written policy is totally vague
<bigcalm> Azelphur: The closest I got was when I was within 80% monthly usage I got a text message (that was the week VirginMedia cable went away)
<Azelphur> I see, any idea on GB usage?
<Azelphur> kinda interested in the Â£16/mo unlimited everything plan
<bigcalm> My plan at the time was 500MB a month. So normal usage for me never got close
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HGeMGqVKD6A#
<popey> she totally isn't reading the cards, but off a tablet
<moreati> Azelphur: I switched from t-mobile because (at the time) they recompressed jpegs and injected javascript to accelerate page loads
<Azelphur> moreati: fun
<moreati> Azelphur: they may still do so, I haven't checked in > 12 months
<Azelphur> I notice they say excluding tethering too, wonder if they do any detection
<Azelphur> I know three does, which has been driving me mad.
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I've never had a problem with tethering
<TheOpenSourcerer> RAT ticket booked bigcalm
<Azelphur> fun
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: \o/
<popey> yay TheOpenSourcerer âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lookingforward to the Beerex next!
<popey> âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now am off to bedski with a scotch and a good book (Currently reading Bring up the Bodies)
 * bigcalm plays a little more of Blue Shift while unit tests run
<directhex> shoot the alien!
<bigcalm> directhex: I've been doing a lot of that
<bigcalm> Wee, back in Xen
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> i'm amazed that my new TV even makes xbox games look better
<directhex> well if you're gonna replace an old 21" 4:3 tube with a 106" oled, it's *gonna* look better
<daftykins> directhex: heh, nah 40" 1366x768 CCFL backed 2005/6 Sony vs. 55" LED backed samsung 6800 series
<daftykins> \o/
<penguin42> hmph, not good when wifi bounces during video recording - anyone know how to rescue swf?
<penguin42> Azelphur: T-mobile's stuff is very vague - I'm on the Â£20/6 months unlimited plan
<Azelphur> penguin42: fun
<daftykins> Azelphur: when you were desk hunting, did you find anything ~1500x800 on the surface for cheaper than Â£100?
<Azelphur> hmm
<daftykins> i've not tried any local places yet
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trexus-Classic-Panelled-Rectangular-W1600xD800xH725mm/dp/B004LWPZDK/ref=sr_1_4?s=officeproduct&ie=UTF8&qid=1364856866&sr=1-4
<daftykins> but that seems to be around the best sort of thing from amazon
<Azelphur> did you want a corner or just a square?
<daftykins> just your standard rectangle job for a middle really
<Azelphur> daftykins: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S09806763/ this with the extension probably
<daftykins> crikey furniture @ pricey
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Azelphur: ty sir!
<Azelphur> yw
<directhex> GALANT gets expensive fast
<daftykins> ?
<Azelphur> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S89821547/ that's the extension I think
<directhex> it's a modular system. so sure, a plank and the cheapest legs, as linked by Azelphur, are <Â£100
<directhex> but once you add on things like extensions, corner pieces, computer shelves, cable trays...
<Azelphur> that gets you 1800x800 for Â£150
<Azelphur> or 1200x800 for Â£90
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> checking down my local recycling might be easiest ;D
<directhex> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/categories/departments/workspaces/18960/
<daftykins> then local office places perhaps, apparently they're disappearing though
<directhex> we DIY'd a GALANT design for our main room
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> my current desk came from a business' bankruptcy sale :D
<daftykins> Â£25 for 1600x800
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> the surface is even amazing for optical meece!
<daftykins> alright i gotta sleep
<daftykins> nn all \o
<penguin42> B&Q do a sheet of white contiplas 2440x1220 for Â£29
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-02
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Dave2: you wanted a reminder
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> https://twitter.com/FarnhamBeerex looks like it's been hacked/compromised
<kvarley> Where are the stock icons stored that notify-send uses?
<popey> dpkg -L notify-osd
<popey>  /usr/share/notify-osd/icons/hicolor/scalable/status/notification-power.svg
<popey> for example
<kvarley> Thanks popey :)
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, it was sending me DMs
<kvarley> Am I right in thinking that RSync can't do date time stamped destination folders?
<popey> kvarley: why?
<kvarley> popey: I expected a flag for doing date but I've just made a bash script and got the date via the date command. Doing backups to an external hard drive, need each one to have the date on
<popey> you could use rsnapshot or rdiff-backup which does this for you
<popey> and will save space
<popey> by only backing up what's changed
<kvarley> popey: I've setup rsync to do checksum checks, is that enough or should I switch to either of the tools you recommended?
<popey> well I dont know what your goal is or what you've done with rsync
<popey> but for regular backups those two tools kinda beat stock rsync
<kvarley> Basically it's to backup my parents home folders. So it will probably be run daily via cron. Would something like owncloud be better? They do a lot of work in LibreOffice and have family pictures on there - that's about it aside from email which is on the server anyway.
<JamesTait> Happy World Autism Awareness Day, folks! :-D
<popey> for my mum I use the standard backup tool in ubuntu - deja-dup
<SuperMatt> urgh, I have the kernal install problem again. Anyone able to remind me of the fix?
<popey> you shouldn't have
<popey> same machine?
<SuperMatt> different
<popey> kill it and then "sudo dpkg --configure -a" then "sudo apt-get -f install" and "sudo apt-get --fix-policy"
<popey> and "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to be sure
<SuperMatt> thanks
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<kvarley> brobostigon: \0
<brobostigon> kvarley: o/
<MartijnVdS> popey: fix-policy doesn't exist?
<SuperMatt> oh... it's gone stuck again on the dist-upgrade
<popey> sorry, install --fix-policy
<SuperMatt> oh wait... it's not
<SuperMatt> it's doing the headers now, just taking it's sweet time
<knightwise> hey everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<popey> SuperMatt: all sorted?
<knightwise> hmm.. rummaging around in Azure at the moment
<knightwise> creatin databases and stuff.
<MartijnVdS> Windows Azure?
<SuperMatt> popey: looks like it, thanks
<SuperMatt> *sigh* excluding all crons and nagios warnings, etc, I only have 21 emails
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: correct
<SuperMatt> and none of them require any action
<SuperMatt> email needs to diaf
<DJones> Are there any known issues with pidgin in 13.04? For some reason, mine doesn't update the timeline, it just shows the tweets from last time I connected using it which was 340 days ago (been using polly since then), tried removing and re-adding the account with no effect
<AlanBell> my desktop background appears to have gone
<AlanBell> been absent for a week or so, and isn't there in a guest session either
 * popey wonders if AlanBell is missing packages
 * AlanBell updates and does ubuntu-desktop^
<BigRedS> pidgin does twitter?
<brobostigon> thats new to me.
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> Everyone have a nice long weekend?
 * BigRedS spent it at work
<DJones> BigRedS: brobostigon Whoops, I meant Gwibber
<brobostigon> DJones: :)
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: you poor thing :(
<davmor2> BigRedS: :) you mean at the coffee machine twiddling your thumbs desperately trying to stay awake right ;)
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: How are you Mucka
<bigcalm> davmor2: glad for a 4 day weekend. Didn't work myself to death either. You?
<bigcalm> Not so glad about the 2 4 day weeks though
<davmor2> bigcalm: mostly I just crashed out :)  Very nice relax.
<BigRedS> davmor2: Haha, I watched a lot of TV :)
<BigRedS> Having periods of time where you sit around waiting for stuff to break is good incentive to spend the rest of the time making things not arbitrarily break
<SuperMatt> I spent 10 hours of my weekend playing bioshock infinite
<SuperMatt> totally worth it
<mungbean> is there a way to find out which argos stores have stock of an item? it just says 10 nearest stores dont have it, but doesn't say which ones do
<DJones> mungbean: Don't think so, only trial and error with the stores
<AlanBell> mungbean: sure it does :)
<mungbean> seems like a complete fail. unavailable to reserve otherwise
<popey> works here
<AlanBell> click "check other stores"
<AlanBell> you can do 2 at a time
<popey> or scroll down
<mungbean> Sorry, this item is currently out of stock in the 10 nearest stores
<popey> put in a further away postcode?
<mungbean> what if i have to do that for every postcode in england to discover the only store in stock is in aberdeen?
<mungbean> shouldn't it allow me to say find stores with stock
<AlanBell> mungbean: you don't want reserve and collect in that case
<mungbean> home delivery is unavailable
<AlanBell> it is probably a discontinued item
<mungbean> but why are they selling the item if its out of stock everywhere?
<mungbean> i found a website to search further afield
<AlanBell> probably because they are based around the printed catalog
<mungbean> i guess if its out of stock for delivery, then general availablity is low
<AlanBell> so if it is in the current printed dead tree website then it is in the online website
<mungbean> its something on good offer atm so maybe just all snapped up
<popey> i would imagine thier backend would get a kicking if everyone was able to search stock in all stores
<popey> ..and be accurate
<mungbean> this is a handy site http://www.icheckstock.co.uk/Argos-Popular-Searches.aspx
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/ get a ticket for a train instead
<AlanBell> easy availability checking
<popey> \o/
<SuperMatt> http://divshot.github.com/geo-bootstrap/
<AlanBell> classy
<zleap> does anyone know the command arguments for graphics magic to place a small creative commons logo in the corner of an image
<zleap> trying to work it out but having problems finding instructions for what i need
<mgdm> zleap: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/annotating/#watermarking ?
<zleap> ok
<mgdm> GM shouldn't have diverged too far from IM
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> i can do it manually in gimp but want this for a large number of images
<bigcalm> mgdm: have you considered the importance of attending http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/ ?
<popey> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f487/?cpg=fbl_f487
<mgdm> I have
<popey> awesome 3d printer âº
<mgdm> the issue is that it's *miles* away
<bigcalm> popey: that is cool!
<bigcalm> mgdm: not quite as far as oggcamp was 2 years ago (close though)
<davmor2> man kids have all the cool things
<mgdm> wasn't that an april fool one
<mgdm> ?
<popey> yes
<mgdm> bigcalm: that doesn't really help :-)
<bigcalm> mgdm: poop
<bigcalm> I'm travelling some distance to attend, but then I'm crazy like that
<mgdm> heh
<mgdm> I'd have to get to London first, then along there
<mgdm> so I'll have a think, but I'm not hopeful, sadly :(
<bigcalm> The thought counts, so thank you :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: why did you add "like that" to your last line
<bigcalm> davmor2: oh you are a card
<bigcalm> s/are a /
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've been called a lot of things in my life A card is the politest :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm a nice person really :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is a difference between polite and nice :D
<bigcalm> I can be both
<bigcalm> Screw you guys, I'm getting lunch
<davmor2> Ah there is the bigcalm I know :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: joining us tomorrow night?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I am
<bigcalm> Grrrr
<bigcalm> Why is Thunderbird only updating when I switch the workspace with it on
<bigcalm> davmor2: didn't see your ml reply until just now by switching to thunderbird
<bigcalm> Anyway, lunch
<davmor2> bigcalm: save on power and bandwidth the same as firefox maybe
<DJones> In a day and age where everything about everybody seems to be online, you wouldn't think it would be so hard to find somebody who's gone missing
<davmor2> DJones: they can easily go offline
<DJones> I think this is more a case that they disappeared before friends reunited, facebook etc appeared, possibly changed names, left the country and not had contact with anybody from their previous life
<BigRedS> bigcalm: One of the reasons I stopped using tb was that it seemed to never update without being asked to
<BigRedS> and *still* ran away with all my memory. I kept thinking I had no mail, then clicked on the inbox and suddenly had 30 messages
<bigcalm> I just used whatever was the default mail client at the time
<bigcalm> Happy to try another client that will cope with 5 IMAP accounts and give me calendars
<BigRedS> I use Mutt and Google Calendar. Two extremes :)
<bigcalm> :D
<BigRedS> I couldn't find a GUI mail client that wasn't rubbish
<bigcalm> I don't want a web client and I prefer using the GUI
<DJones> What alternatives are there to thunderbird though, multi account capeable, still being actively developed etc
<BigRedS> Evolution? Someone here uses that and it seems a lot better htan it was
<BigRedS> which, admittedly, isn't hard
<BigRedS> but nobody develops mail clients any more. It's all about webmail.
<DJones> I though Evolution was the one that wasn't being actively developed
<popey> BigRedS: i dont get that with tb, but I have every folder set to be subscribed, and the tickbox to check for mail in this folder
<popey> and I have about 30 folders set as "favorite"
<popey> and only view those
<BigRedS> popey: yeah, I had that. I spent a long time experimenting it 'cause I really like Mozilla and didn't want to dislike any of their software
<BigRedS> this was ~11.10 though. I've been told it's better now, but mutt/offlineimap/msmtp is serving me pretty well
<BigRedS> especially since configuring my mail client is now just a git checkout away :)
 * popey hugs mutt
<DJones> I like the look of geary but I don't think its multi account capeable yet
<popey> i think it does now
<DJones> I'll have another look at it tonight
 * penguin42 is a mutt user as well - albeit directly rather than via imap; I did remember finding it tricky to get imap connections to stay open
<popey> i use mutt directly now too
<popey> offlineimap as a cron job which syncs imap mail to my machine and back
<penguin42> ah ok
<shauno> yeah, mutt & maildir ftw
<popey> which means mutt is super quick
<penguin42> popey: It's nice being able to check my 10k entry spam folder in about 30 seconds
<mgdm> I use Mutt occasionally, directly on my mail server
<bigcalm> Silly VirginMedia outages :(
 * penguin42 has to admit that it's not *that* easy to read mail from a touchscreen phone with an ssh to mutt, but it does work :-)
<shauno> I just use my phone's native client via imap for that.  but that's for putting out fires in the inbox, not sitting down witha  glass and far too many MLs
<bigcalm> popey: any news on a native email client for the touch os? Will it support multiple accounts?
<popey> we're working on it
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> you're welcome to help âº
<mgdm> what's it built in?
<popey> it isnt yet
<penguin42> the tricky bit on a phone is getting the message density while still being able to navigate with big thick fingers
<popey> we looked at trojita as a possible base
<mgdm> I once experimented with tinymail for something like that
<mgdm> though that just covers the IMAP part
<popey> trojita doesn't do pop, needs a qml frontend made
<bigcalm> geary looks nice, think it'll get multi-account support?
<DJones> bigcalm: The website suggests its a known issue being worked on
<bigcalm> DJones: ah, I couldn't see it from my quick glance. Is it an old ticket?
<DJones> bigcalm: Looks like its already there http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/03/desktop-e-mail-app-geary-adds-multiple-accounts
<kvarley> How can I mount my nexus 10 in ubuntu?
<kvarley> In MTP mode it doesn't appear in nautilus, only if I switch to PTP mode does it work but that seems to be just for camera pictures
<kvarley> Ah, feature confirmed for 13.04
<popey> !info gmtp
<lubotu3> gmtp (source: gmtp): simple MP3 player client for MTP based devices. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.3-1 (quantal), package size 117 kB, installed size 394 kB
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<bigcalm> !king
<lubotu3> kong
<bigcalm> \o/
<mgdm> !pong
<lubotu3> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
<bigcalm> !kong
 * bigcalm looks at Dave2
 * Dave2 looks at bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Choochoo
<bigcalm> ?
<Dave2> oh, yes
<Dave2> I've just been looking at stuff for moar beer
<Dave2> (Reading beer festival)
<bigcalm> Handy link for you: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2320-real-ale-train/
<Dave2> thankse
<davmor2> Dave2: Why would you want to Read a beer festival, surely the aim is to drink :)
<Dave2> har har.
<Dave2> bigcalm: booked
<bigcalm> ooo, The page shows my mug shot in the comments now, yay
<bigcalm> Dave2: yayb \o/
<bigcalm> Dave2: yay beer \o/
<bigcalm> Dave2: add yourself in the comments :)
<Dave2> bigcalm: done
<bigcalm> Hazar
<bigcalm> That's 6 people so far. Wonder if we'll get more
<bigcalm> Erm, 7 people
<bigcalm> Where's that aquarius gone?
<aquarius> am provisionally up for it, but not yet sure, hence no response :)
<bigcalm> aquarius: good show :)
<bigcalm> aquarius: I shall be grilling Adam Sweet at the LUG tomorrow night
<bigcalm> (in case that's an incentive)
<dogmatic69> I have a pc that is close to full (hdd). What are some good things to clean up on ubuntu?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: personal downloads, apt-cache
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: log files
<dogmatic69> I have cleared out /var/log before with not much difference
<AlanBell> use baobab to find the stuff
<dogmatic69> just looking at ~/ now and will try the apt-cache
<dogmatic69> hmm. I will check that.
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: I guess that lists big files?
<AlanBell> it maps out directory sizes recursively
<AlanBell> and shows you pretty pictures
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: Disk Usage Analyser
<dogmatic69> bah. and its a server. no gui
<davmor2> dogmatic69: du -ha > file.size.txt
<davmor2> dogmatic69: do that from where ever you want to analyse
<davmor2> dogmatic69: it'll produce a huge file by the way and you'll get stuff like 1.2M	./Pictures/2008/05/07/hpim0733.jpg
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> I see.
<dogmatic69> davmor2: actuall baobab will work fine. I just run it from my pc like baobab /server-drive
<davmor2> dogmatic69: oh well there you go then
<andylockran> Anyone have recommendations on a home energy monitor ?
<andylockran> reckon this looks good? http://www.edfenergy.com/products-services/for-your-home/ecomanager/
<dogmatic69> andylockran: http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/
<andylockran> dogmatic69: that looks like too much effort :p
<dogmatic69> hehe
<mungbean> andylockran: what do u want it to do
<mungbean> i have a currentcost one i got for free
<mungbean> gathers power and temperature readings and sends them to my low powered linux box, (think rasbpi type thing)
<Seeker`> has anyone been skein hashing today?
<mgdm> been what now?
<mungbean> sounds a bit scottish
<MartijnVdS> skein = password hashing thing, right/
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skein_(hash_function)
<mungbean> i been snipping rose bushes and mowing the lawn
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: yeah, related to yesterdays XKCD
<zleap> hey tom
<penguin42> popey: I remember you were measuring some house temperatures; were those air temperatures or on the heating system itself?
<popey> general house temp
<penguin42> popey: Thanks; I'm currently video recording the display on my boiler
<popey> hows that working out?
<AlanBell> sounds exciting
<AlanBell> a youtube hit in the making
<penguin42> popey: Well I'm trying to get to the bottom of why my shower sometimes runs cold and it's a bit difficult to tell - the boiler doesn't really have enough info
<penguin42> AlanBell: Be careful, I  was thinking of uploading it
<popey> after how long does it go cold?
<popey> while you're in it I guess?
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, and the problem is it's very very variable
<penguin42> popey: Some nights it doesn't do it, some just at the end, some fairly early on (and that's when it pisses me off)
<penguin42> http://www.treblig.org/daveG/boiler/  has videos
<penguin42> popey: The boiler display only shows the heating system temp not the hot water temp, so it's difficult to follow what's really going on
<popey> and there's no hot water from taps either?
<penguin42> popey: on the one or two times I've managed to test that, no there isn't
 * penguin42 suspects it might not do it tonight, it's a bit warmer
<popey> enthralling video penguin42
<penguin42> popey: I like to think as the director, and special effects expert I did the most to make it interesting
<penguin42> popey: The bit I'd like to understand is about 9:50 or so into it, when it's starting to go cold and then the rest drops
<bigcalm> popey: when was the last time you tried to ssh into a machine on your home network from an external source?
<popey> uhm
<popey> 3 seconds ago
<bigcalm> Okay, so hopefully it's not a VirginMedia issue
<bigcalm> I can't ssh into my home lan or even connect on port 80
<popey> what happens if you nmap yourself from outside?
<bigcalm> Running that right now
 * bigcalm twiddles thumbs
<bigcalm> It scanned 1000 ports and says they were all filtered
<bigcalm> I haven't changed anything on my router recently, so I don't understand why it's stopped working now
<popey> what is the router uptime?
<bigcalm> 4h 20m 1s
<bigcalm> Going to try rebooting the modem in a bit
<popey> have you ssh'ed since then?
<bigcalm> That shouldn't make a bit of difference :S
<bigcalm> No
<bigcalm> I've tried
<bigcalm> Doesn't work for me
<bigcalm> I've just added port forwarding to allow ssh to a workstation. That's timing out as well
<bigcalm> What's the default IP address of the VM super hub?
<bigcalm> 0.1
<bigcalm> Ta
<popey> wb
<bigcalm_> That's interesting. The SuperHub had switched out of Modem Only Mode
<popey> odd
<bigcalm_> Thanks
<popey> that explains it
<bigcalm> I'm guessing that VM forced a modem update upon the hardware
<bigcalm> Sod, IP address has changed now :)
<bigcalm> That'll be why I cannie connect on the old IP address
<bigcalm> That's Blue Shift finished
<bigcalm> Now to start up Opposing Forces
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-03
<ali1234> is the thing about killing WUBI legit?
<ali1234> i really really really hope it is true
<hamitron> omg no!
<hamitron> :/
<nigelb> AlanBell: ping? I need some help with meetingology :)
<AlanBell> morning nigelb
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> morning daubers
<popey> ali1234: yes
<popey> (morning)
<jacobw> Morning
<feisar> Morning, anyone familiar with Nagios? hi, if my Nagios server is outside my LAN do I need a public IP for each NRPE client I want to monitor?
<jacobw> feisar: you need to be able to reach the hosts you want to monitor
<jacobw> feisar: if your LAN is 10.2.3.0/24 and your Nagios server is a VPS at 4.3.2.1, then it must have a route to 10.2.3.0/24 through your own network or a tunnel in to your network
<JamesTait> Happy Tweed Day, everyone! :-D
<feisar> jacobw: ah a tunnel in sounds like a good idea, thanks
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<kvarley> \0
<ali1234> well, this is unusual
<ali1234> laptop works fine wwith ubuntu, HDMI out and wifi don't work in windows
<davmor2> Morning all
<ali1234> is intel HD 4000 another lemon?
<SuperMatt> well it didn't taste all that nice, that's all I know
<davmor2> ali1234: why so works well here
<ali1234> HDMI doesn't work
<davmor2> yeah it does both my laptops have it and it works fine for me
<ali1234> it works in ubuntu
<ali1234> it doesn't work in windows
<ali1234> it just makes the monitor turn on and off
<davmor2> ali1234: you know you are in the ubuntu channel right why would we care about windows ;)  My new laptop came with window 8 and the hdmi worked fine, my old one had windows 7 and it's hdmi worked fine and earlier and latter version of hd4000 intel gfx and both work fine under ubuntu
<davmor2> ali1234: that was pluging into a tv rather than a monitor, so maybe it is a monitor issue rather than intel?
<ali1234> looks like a cable issue
<ali1234> although the cable works fine with the dvd player
<ali1234> my monitor does not seem to like it
<ali1234> are there different types of hdmi cable?
<popey> there are
<davmor2> ali1234: as far as I'm aware no, though my hd cable is the one that came with my ps3 I just unplug it and plug in a laptop to prove a point to love film :)
<popey> "hdmi 1.3"
<davmor2> ah wait ofcourse there is the newer one with a power line to switch the channel like the scart leads do
<ali1234> but then why does it work in ubuntu with one cable, but in windows it needs the other cable?
<ali1234> this makes no sense
<ali1234> HDMI sucks
<ali1234> (i just tested with another cable and it works fine)
<popey> does HDCP need more/different pins?
<popey> and is windows enforcing HDCP
<ali1234> well the not working cable is off our DVD player
<ali1234> it works fine with that
<ali1234> blu ray player sorry
<ali1234> you'd think that would have HDCP
<ali1234> you're probably right anyway
<davmor2> ali1234: so you were being harsh on intel hd4000 chip and it wants an apology or it goes on strike ;)
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> i never actually said it was intel's fault
<davmor2> ali1234: it forgives you then ;)
 * AlanBell has no desktop background still :(
<AlanBell> I have installed ubuntu-desktop^
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5673260/ is .xsession_errors
<popey> is nautilus running?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> and right click does give a menu
<popey> and right click, change background does what?
<AlanBell> just no icons on the desktop it is white, and that was in a guest session
<popey> I would ask in #ubuntu-desktop pls
<AlanBell> pops up the background chooser
<AlanBell> and has no effect
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
<Myrtti> I thought everyone knew about irssinotifier for android :-D
<popey> clearly not! :D
<MartijnVdS> there's knowing.. and then there's caring ;)
<Myrtti> (it's also one of the reasons why my phone is set to go silent between midnight and 0630)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: there is knowing and there is sharing, popey is the person we all come to to learn stuff how dare he not know ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: true :)
<jacobw> IRC is not serious business
<SuperMatt> I don't know
<SuperMatt> I know of some people that have assumed it is
<jacobw> People assume all kind of silly things
<jacobw> See: 'God'
<SuperMatt> I don't know, God isn't all that much of a silly assumption. The issue is that it's now (mostly) proven wrong
<SuperMatt> and of course, that assumes that God has been asssumed, rather than taught
<SuperMatt> I'm sure many people these days would never actually assume God based on evidence, etc
<popey> !religioun
<popey> bah!
<popey> !religion
<lubotu3> Some topics are controversial and often end in negativity. Take care on subjects like war, race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality, drugs, potentially illegal activities and suicide. The topics are not banned; stating your position is ok, but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not. If you are asked to stop, do so politely. Disputes to !appeals, please adhere to !freenode Policy and the !CodeOfConduct
<SuperMatt> I'll stop o/
 * bootkigftrgds starts it off again ..
<bootkigftrgds> Is it true that 13.04 will get rid of "Wubi" ??
<SuperMatt> I believe so
<redtape> AlanBell: ping
<redtape> AlanBell: Do you have any 12.10 DVD'd of Ubuntu left over ??
<redtape> **DVD's .. ?
<SuperMatt> I should have picked one up when I was at canonical yesterday
<redtape> sod it ..I'll just burn one for him ..
<redtape> he's a restaurant chain owner with a music license .. with Win7 problems .. so a possible convert on my hitlist ..
<redtape> Oh . I may given him the wrong one .. I gave him Ubuntu desktop amd64 .. is that the right one ??
<directhex> as opposed to?
<jacobw> That is the right one for 95% of people
<redtape> as opposed to the ubuntu-12.10-desktop-i386
<redtape> jacobw: thought so .. just checking..
<directhex> i386 is appropriate for pentium 4 and athlon xp and atom processors. in most other cases 64-bit is appropriate
<directhex> ymmv. ianal. iddqd.
<jacobw> i386 is really i686 and is only for 32 bit x86 processors; it'll work on 64 bit too, but it's suboptimal to run i686 on a 64 bit capable CPU, especially if you want to address more than 4GB without PAE
<redtape> oh .. I think he is intel as he is trying it out on an "emachines " laptop .. sorry 4 the confusion.
<jacobw> Yes, YMMV, IANAL .. IDDQD?
<SuperMatt> impulse 9!
<kvarley> Story after story about features being delayed for 13.04. Don't people/writers realise things take time - no point pushing stuff out when it's not ready.
<penguin42> nod, it takes quite a lot of bravery to actually not-ship something, it's better than shipping something completely screwed
<kvarley> Ubuntu is so good because it strikes a balance between cutting edge and stability. People seem to forget that when they want new stuff.
<kvarley> Is Ubuntu still based on Debian? Or is still built for Ubuntu now?
<SuperMatt> Ubuntu has always been based on debian testing
<kvarley> SuperMatt: When they say "testing" they really mean usable but not guaranteed stable?
<kvarley> I tried stable the other day and the XFCE packages are so old on squeeze
<czajkowski> any ubuntu server users here - http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/ubuntu-juju
<kvarley> How can I search for printers that have good linux support and have separate colour cartridges? The wiki docs seem to be massively out of date
<penguin42> kvarley: What about openprinting.org ?
<kvarley> penguin42: checking it out, thanks
<SuperMatt> kvarley: my mistake, it's based on debian unstable. But Canonical do everything they can to stable it up a bit more, such as upgrade/downgrade packages
<AlanBell> redtape: I have a handful of them left
<SuperMatt> soooooo any word yet on a release party? :D
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: not yet :/
<SuperMatt> I quite liked the place we were at last time
<AlanBell> the official beard of the raring ringtail release party has been announced though, http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y73w3pEaYJk/UK0BneTAdWI/AAAAAAAABM0/70C75mGAJBQ/s1600/lemur.jpg
<SuperMatt> hah
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't mind organising it, but I don't want to step on anyone's toes
<AlanBell> that would be rather helpful :)
<SuperMatt> who normally gets the ball rolling?
<SuperMatt> there are some nice pubs on the southbank near Canonical
<SuperMatt> ooh, maybe the golden hind
<AlanBell> we suggest a pub and canonical say OK
<AlanBell> April 25th is the date by the look of the schedule
<AlanBell> dunno if it will be the last evar release party
<SuperMatt> well I would like to propose The Old Thames Side Inn
<SuperMatt> you think it might be worth taking this to the ubuntu-uk mailing list?
<bigcalm> Is there a way of intergrating new email notifications, for imap accounts, into unity without running a desktop client?
<AlanBell> very nice
<bigcalm> I'm trying to ditch Thunderbird
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: I will email Marianna now and suggest that
<SuperMatt> AlanBell: cool, thanks :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: do you use gmail?
<SuperMatt> I've been before, it has a large-ish outdoor area
<SuperMatt> I'm sure we can book a few tables
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: what are you replacing it with?
<bigcalm> davmor2: those are the IMAP accounts I'm thinking of. Though I need to think of something for my Outlook account
<davmor2> bigcalm: the gmail webapp
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: web mail. I just need notifying when new emails come in
<bigcalm> davmor2: does it work for multiple accounts?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know I don't actually use it
<davmor2> bigcalm: I don't know how hard it would be to create a new instance either
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: what you can do is install the labs thing for gmail, which puts a count in the title. This is great because pinned tabs in chrom* and firefox will flash when a new email has come in
<SuperMatt> I rely on this quite heavily and it works well
<popey> xnox: â¹  bug 1163997
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1163997 could not be found
<SuperMatt> personally though, I've just switched to running my own mail server
<popey> usb startup disk creator seems a bit flaky in raring
<SuperMatt> slow?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: great, except I might not have a web browser open or be looking at the workspace with it on. I need something that intergrates with the existing email notifyer icon and turns blue upon new emails. Along with an audio alert
<davmor2> bigcalm: looks like it is one account, but I'm sure you can have a play with it and make a dupe of the code base and add a secondary app for work mail
<SuperMatt> well, I'm gonna be serious now... python supports imap, I don't imagine it'd be a huge issue to write something that can connect to your server and then send something to notify-osd
<SuperMatt> I've been looking for a reason to stretch my pythonic muscles
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: want to write it for me? I don't do python (much)
<bigcalm> :)
<SuperMatt> It's a good little project, and a small daemon is all it needs
<SuperMatt> though I'm sure there are about a million questions one could ask about how it should function
<SuperMatt> do you need to see a summary of each email as it comes in, or just the number of unread emails?
<bigcalm> gnome-gmail-notifier seems to support multiple accounts. Wonder if it works
<xnox> popey: is that the right bug number?
<popey> yes, it's currently private
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: a new message count against each configured account would be a good start
<popey> subscribed you to it
<SuperMatt> multiple accounts! /o\
<Myrtti> does gnome-gmail-notifier actually work nowadays?
<Myrtti> gm-notify doesn't because API was changed.
<SuperMatt> there is one issue... storing passwords... surely that'd be done in plaintext?
<SuperMatt> no, there has to be a better way
<popey> uhm
<popey> we have online accounts
<bigcalm> Myrtti: installed, trying to figure out how to get to it. I have a feeling it might be a gnome2 thingy only
<popey> would make more sense to use that
<SuperMatt> oh wait, I could store in the keyring
<popey> system settings -> online accounts, add a gmail account and then query that from python?
<SuperMatt> oh yeah
<SuperMatt> thanks popey
<SuperMatt> though it wouldn't help with my server, but at least I could grab details from multiple sources
<SuperMatt> so check online accounts for gmail, or store password in the keyring for other imap accounts
<SuperMatt> unless you guys wanna chuck personal mail servers into online accounts ;)
<SuperMatt> or is it down to me to write that?
<popey> well..
<Myrtti> well then again I'm on Debian nowadays so the problems of the online accounts and webmail webapps and unity extensions are mainly academic interest issues for me.
<popey> Myrtti: debian has online accounts too
<popey> via gnome
<SuperMatt> I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to add "generic imap account" and "generic pop3 account"
<Myrtti> popey: yeah, but since I don't like Gnome Shell, I'm not using Gnome.
<popey> SuperMatt: yeah, that would be interesting - speak to mardy or kenvandine in #ubuntu-desktop perhaps? see what the roadmap is
<Myrtti> instead I tweaked XFCE4 to look a bit like Unity.
<popey> yeah, i saw, looks neat
<popey> I have my mac setup like that too
<popey> dock on the left
<SuperMatt> popey: will do, thanks
<mgdm> I've had the dock on the right for so long that Unity takes a bit of getting used to
<bigcalm> mgdm: can't it be moved to the right?
<mgdm> Not in Unity, no
<mgdm> left or GTFO :)
<bigcalm> Goodness
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: keep prodding me about this project btw. I might be able to have something simple up and running in a few weeks. It certainly wouldn't be perfect, and may have security issues, but you can be my first alpha tester ;)
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: sure, glad you're interested in tackling the problem :)
<MartijnVdS> he's solving The ProblemÂ®?
<SuperMatt> my mind went to some very bad jokes just now
<SuperMatt> thank Darwin it's home time
<SuperMatt> cheerio!
<popey> bigcalm: my virgin connection is odd today
<popey> wonder if my cm needs a reboot
<popey> connections keep pausing for 10 seconds at a time
<bigcalm> popey: not had that, what I've had is outages of 30+ mins with the superhub showing no connection
<bigcalm> popey: power cycling on the cards? :)
<popey> I imagine so
<popey> maybe lateron
<popey> wifey is out tonight so hacking fun
<davmor2> popey: I had that yesterday evening but then it went away and has been fine since
<davmor2> popey: I rebooted my router and the super hub
 * bigcalm lumbers off Wolverhampton
 * MartijnVdS watches bigcalm fall
<bigcalm> +towards
<MartijnVdS> no Wilhelm scream>
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Hayley and I make a point of listening out for that scream in each film we watch
<MartijnVdS> *aaaugh*
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Once you've heard it, you can't un-hear it :) It's even in some games now
<bigcalm> Nice
<bigcalm> Right, off I pop
<bigcalm> Toodles
<MartijnVdS> \o
<TrevorH1> I'm trying to upgrade an 8.04 LTS server to 10.04 LTS and I boot the new kernel and it hangs either just after the "XFS mounting filesystem xvda2" if the filesystem is clean or after the "Ending XFS recovery on filesystem xvda2 (logdev: internal)". I can however boot the old 8.04 kernel which seems odd since the release notes say it'll hang!
<TrevorH1> this is a VM running under xen on Centos 5.9 and it's a clone of the one I'll actually be upgrading for real
<TrevorH1> be grateful for any ideas about what might be the cause, it seems to have finished mounting the root f/s xvda2
<popey> has the filesystem name changed in the new kernel/
<popey> ?
<popey> I had that
<popey> i.e. no longer xvda but sda or similar
<TrevorH1> you mean the label?
<popey> sorry, no device name
<popey> also, what kernel are you using/
<popey> bah, stupid ? key
<TrevorH1> 2.6.32-46-generic is what the upgrade process installed
<popey> should be okay
 * popey goes to put kids to bed... back later
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mungbean> want to rotate a screen using xrandr but it literally rotates and doesn't fill the view properly - any ideas?
<popey> what is the output of just running xrandr before and after rotating?
<mungbean> i was doing xrandr -o left
<mungbean> i'll try it popey
<mungbean> doesn't fix it
<TrevorH1> I reckon my 10.04 hang is in the initramfs code, perhaps because the new kernel seems to be including virtio* modules that the old one did not
<popey> i didnt say it would
<popey> I was asking to see the output
<penguin42> TrevorH1: Are you using a virtual machine?
<popey> TrevorH1: there is a virt specific kernel
<popey> well, there was
<mungbean> actually i think it works popey, just the wine kindle app doesnt work with t
<mungbean> my eee pc getting new lease of life
<mungbean> except i need to find the cpu scaling thing again...feels sluggish
<popey> eee 900?
<mungbean> 701
<mungbean> (last time i do early adoption)
<mungbean> running lubuntu 12.10
<mungbean> its become my sofa arm companion during paternity leave
 * penguin42 would think you'd want something ARM powered for that
<mungbean> bahdum chish
<mungbean> i tried chromium OS on this thing actually, bu failed
<mungbean> congrats you are "Established middle class"
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: If he'd used something ARM-powered he wouldn't need paternity leave, now would he
<TrevorH1> popey: penguin42: yes, this is a xen VM
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: haha
 * penguin42 doesn't know Xen foo
<TrevorH1> I've checked the 8.04 initrd and it doesn't appear to have any virtualised drivers
<penguin42> 8.04 is OLD
<penguin42> 10.04 is only Old
<TrevorH1> yes, 1 month left until EOL hence the attempt to migrate :)
<penguin42> TrevorH1: Will it boot into the fallback/debug (can't remember the exact name) in grub ?
<TrevorH1> my predecessor's predecessor was an ubuntu fan and this is the last most difficult system left
<penguin42> TrevorH1: So you've gone up from 8.04 to 10.04 and it currently won't boot?
<TrevorH1> yes, I've followed the wiki page on dist-upgrade and there's a warning in there saying "make sure you boot with the new kernel or it'll hang" but I have the opposite, it'll still boot with the 8.04 kernel but the 10.04 one stops just after saying it's mounting the root fs, no panic, no error, just stop
<penguin42> ok, try the recovery/debug option in the boot it might give you some more info
<penguin42> TrevorH1: Ideally I'd try and get upto 12.04 but it's right to try and get 10.04 to boot first
<TrevorH1> 2 years more life is probably enough to get us off this one... 2TB of phone call recordings :(
<TrevorH1> I wonder if it might be because the root fs is XFS
<TrevorH1> though I'm really in poke'n'hope mode at the moment
<penguin42> TrevorH1: Unlikely to be because it's XFS (although XFS doesn't like unclean shutdowns if you had any) as I say, try and get it up in the recovery boot and at least see if there is any diag
 * penguin42 admits to not liking XFS, but that was only one bad experience....
<penguin42> (a long time ago)
<TrevorH1> yeah I have 60 or 70 other systems that are all CentOS on ext3/4, this one is the last ubuntu/xfs one left
<TrevorH1> I share your dislike of xfs, well it has its place, I use it on a 4TB f/s that contains huge files
<zleap> or in here if it wont work from im
<zleap> or pm what ever they are called
<zleap> private message
<zleap> hmm
<mungbean> watching a war programme that was made in canada and redubbed in englissh. shame that we have to watch non britih versions of this stuff
<TrevorH1> bingo, not hung at all, just no console! old kernel used console=xvc0, new one wants console=hvc0
<zleap> wb tombrough
<MartijnVdS> TrevorH1: because change is good!
<MartijnVdS> wait..
<penguin42> TrevorH1: Now, do you feel lucky enough to go to 12.04 ?
<zleap> tombrough, try identifying anyway
<TrevorH1> I have yet to test all the applications that are meant to run on this machine!
<TrevorH1> I suspect half of them are already going to complain about glibc versions etc
<MartijnVdS> They're that fragile?
<TrevorH1> I've got no idea yet, I'll let you know when they don't work :)
<TrevorH1> does upstart work with old-style initscripts in some sort of compatibility mode f.e?
<MartijnVdS> Upstart starts old-style initscripts properlyt
<Klettbar> what is tamiya tape
<ali1234> tape for making models i guess
<mungbean> masking tape
<mungbean> why u asK?#
<mungbean> its the best one,
<redtape> ali1234: I'm just watching Jono .. [ http://youtu.be/Jnh7kW_XMY0?t=11m23s ] It seems there is more about what's 'Not' in 13.04 than Is .. No Wubi, No Smart-scopes, No In-dash payment system. Wow I feel sorry for those under Mark getting a thick ear this month.
<ali1234> why u tell me this?
<ali1234> wubi is good riddance
<ali1234> it never worked right and just killed people's machines
<redtape> Oh, I forgot , you are not interested in chit-chat, sorry, my mistake.
<Klettbar> what means "to get a thick ear"?
<ali1234> if someone wants to try ubuntu without repartitioning they should just use virtualbox
<redtape> troo.
<AlanBell> wubi isn't well tested as nobody has got windows to test it on
<redtape>  or re-engineer Wubi .... (?)
<zleap> lolk
<zleap> lol / has windows but can't install linux without wubi
<redtape> I think Wubi is MIT, anyway .. it's American company if I recall .. maybe not
<ali1234> yeah basically the problem with wubi is it is designed for noobs and only noobs use it. so when it breaks, nobody knows how to fix it.
 * zleap erm  has windows but can install linux without wubi
<zleap> i remember installing slackware to a fat 32 system years ago
<zleap> back in about 95
<ali1234> it's a great example of why expanding the userbase at the cost of driving away anyone with knowledge and experience is a really bad idea
<redtape> I tried Anti-X on my old Win95 computer recently . Works well.
<redtape> ali1234: Yeah, Ive gotta sort that out..
<redtape> leaves.
<MartijnVdS> what was the FAT hack to get unixy permissions again?
<MartijnVdS> I used it back in the 90s
<mgdm> ummm
<mgdm> I know the one you mean
<ali1234> does anyone know some software that can emulate a USB CD writer in hardware?
<mgdm> muLinux used it
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: umsdos?
<mgdm> that's the one
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT_filesystem_and_Linux#Installing_Linux_on_and_booting_it_from_FAT_volumes_using_umsdos
<MartijnVdS> http://linux.voyager.hr/umsdos/
<czajkowski> popey: http://s556.photobucket.com/user/theresanjesse/media/hairlesspug.jpg.html
<popey> ew
<Myrtti> outdoors looking at the stars â¥
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> that was fun
<dogmatic69> Anyone able to say what /proc/ is?
<dogmatic69> baobab has it listed as 140TB which is impossible as the drive is 63GB
<shauno> it doesn't physically exist, so it shouldn't be used in disk measurements
<shauno> it's just a bunch of kernel structures exposed as a filesystem
<popey> saw this and thought of ikonia and directhex http://imgur.com/gallery/PdsRTKM
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-04
<redtape>  UDS ala-2065 (where only one dev. turns up 'cos of fuel prices) :P            http://i.imgur.com/Jtq1QAj.jpg
<popey> morning
<JamesTait> Happy International Day of Mine Awareness and Assistance in Mine Action, people! (phew!)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone looking for a job in open source in luvly Farnham? http://www.libertus.co.uk/about-us/jobs
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are getting busier and busier - had new 5 enquiries this week already and it's only day 2!
<KrimZon_2> does anyone know how to change the sudo timeout for one user only?
<SuperMatt> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=183418
<KrimZon_2> ahh, thanks
<kvarley> Does anybody know what the Ubuntu port to the Nexus 7 is called? The one that came before Ubuntu Touch - runs the whole system on it.
<kvarley> Ah found it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
<kvarley> Shame there is no port of it for Nexus 10
<kvarley> The Google Samsung Chromebook has the same ARM chip in as the Nexus 10 - does that mean that I should technically be able to run the ARM versions of Ubuntu on the tablet?
<davmor2> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> aloha
<marxjohnson> Skype tells me "Today, Alan Pope turns 41"
<marxjohnson> Happy popey day
<popey> Skype never lies!
<popey> Thanks.
<SuperMatt> \o/
 * SuperMatt fires off the steamers and kicks around some balloons
<SuperMatt> *streamers
 * daubers rolls out the dancing rodents
<daubers> So next year popey is the answer to the great question of life the universe and everything?
<daubers> at which point he will design a new, faster, more powerful popey?
<dwatkins> ...and multiply six by nine in base thirteen...
<SuperMatt> that's just silly
 * kvarley always thought of popey as 32
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> good ning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<popey> kvarley: thanks âº
<kvarley> popey: What shiny bit of tech did you buy yourself for your birthday then? :P
<popey> heh, I didn't
<popey> other people bought me stuff tho
<kvarley> Ah, good :)
<kvarley> Well, enjoy :)
<SuperMatt> what did you buy yourself from your children?
<kvarley> SuperMatt: hehe
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008D1M7KE for example
 * SuperMatt makes note for next year's secret santa
<kvarley> You just overshadowed my Ubuntu mug
<kvarley> OT: Does anybody know if Orange uses Virgin Media masts? A phone with an Orange SIM card is showing Virgin media as the provider for some weird reason
<Myrtti> I was super boring and bought D a Â£25 Google Play gift card
<SuperMatt> nothing boring about that
<SuperMatt> lots of good things can come of it
<Myrtti> I'm happy that they brought them out, playing around with prepaid Visas is a bit cumbersome
<Myrtti> I can't get any books or magazines with a Finnish credit card, you see.
<popey> also got a craft ruler, couple of kitchen utensils, and more cooking classes âº
<popey> also, forgot that skype knows my birthday. it's interesting how I got zero "happy birthdays" until someone noticed skype, because I defriended everyone on facebook, so no HB from there
<Myrtti> Google+ isn't telling about birthdays either :-(
<popey> yeah, I hid that
<popey> I did get a load of HB from various forums around the world though
<kvarley> popey: why the defriends? privacy?
<popey> because facebook is shit
<kvarley> popey: Haha, true
<Myrtti> I hid mine from Facebook. People are too preconditioned to do HBD to a person they don't really communicate normally, found it a bit disturbing.
 * SuperMatt nods
<kvarley> I'm only on FB because everybody else is. Annoying.
<SuperMatt> I would rather people stayed off google+
<SuperMatt> I like how quiet it is ;)
<ali1234> g+ isn't that quiet any more
<Myrtti> I've got lots of people in Google+
<SuperMatt> it is if you don't add too many people :P
<ali1234> loads of people keep adding me and i have no idea who they are
<ali1234> but then i follow loads of people who have no idea who i am so yeah
<SuperMatt> that keeps happening to me too
<SuperMatt> I can only assume they're linuxy types
<SuperMatt> I understand following a celeb, but I question why I get followed
<popey> my G+ is way more interesting that fb ever was
<Myrtti> I have to ignore the fact people are adding me, I get creepy feeling quite often
<SuperMatt> I think facebook is for IRL friends, and G+ seems to fit nicely with people who think much like me
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> the reason g+ seems better than facebook is because we all learned an important lesson on facebook
<ali1234> which is don't try to friend as many people as possible
<popey> dunno
<popey> i had way more people in G+ circles than fb friends
<Myrtti> I never tried to friend as many people as possible... but I find it easier to control who I share stuff with and who's stuff I see in G+
<popey> 1116 on fb
<Myrtti> I've got way more people in G+ than in Facebook
<popey> some dupes though, as some people have multiple accounts
<ali1234> facebook doesn't even have a "number of friends" counter any more
<Myrtti> has anyone had a good fiddle with Google Pixel, btw? we went to PC World in Peterborough few weeks ago and the Google rep there said that there's about 3 Pixels on display in the country, so if you want to see it live you need to waylay someone who's bought it to get a lookfeel
<kvarley> Myrtti: No but everybody who has is in love with it
<Myrtti> I know
<Myrtti> I'm trying to talk myself out of ordering it
<SuperMatt> it's a bit steep price wise
<SuperMatt> what's the disk space like?
<kvarley> But it is massively over spec
<SuperMatt> indeed
<Myrtti> 16GB for wifi only model
<SuperMatt> I don't understand why a web browser needs such high spec ;)
<kvarley> And it's google so it's gonna be a very nice bit of kit
<kvarley> With it though you can run Chrome OS and Linux at the same time
<popey> i notice it has an internal sata port
<Myrtti> I think the LTE version has 32GB
<popey> sorry, mini pcie
<popey> so without the 3G card you could potentially add an msata card for more storage
<AlanBell> it has a useful aspect ratio screen
<Myrtti> well I'm using about 8.8 with my Debian at the moment, and I don't game so I don't really care that much. All my bulky data is on an external harddrive
<Myrtti> (which is at the moment mounted upstairs on the Viglen)
<Myrtti> it just would be nice to have a new, fairly top speck laptop once in my life
<Myrtti> -k
<kvarley> Myrtti: I tried to talk myself out of the Nexus 10, it didn't happen. Google hardware is so nice & it's probably more open than any other laptop you'd get.
<ali1234> doesn't it cost about the same as a macbook pro?
<kvarley> ali1234: probably cheaper knowing Apple
<kvarley> It's better spec screen wise than the retina macbook anyway isn't it?
<Myrtti> ali1234: if it were the same price, I'd pick Google anytime ^____^
 * brobostigon hugs his nexus7. 
<ali1234> pretty similar really
<ali1234> the pixel is slightly cheaper
<ali1234> to be honest i think i would pick the mac
<Myrtti> with a touch screen (for which I can't think any use for tho)
<ali1234> probably get better support
<ali1234> it's funny that the two best products are apple and google laptops and nobody cares about microsoft's rubbish tablet
<ali1234> so the pixel is $200 cheap than the macbook pro... but the mac completely destroys it in specs
<SuperMatt> The one thing that stops me from getting a mac is the bloody keyboard
<ali1234> that's a good point
<popey> apple support > google support
<ali1234> it's a pretty close fight really
<ali1234> which is kind of interesting
<ali1234> i can't afford either of these things though
<ali1234> unless someone is selling them for bitcoins
<Myrtti> well if there's any problems while I'd be in Finland, there's no difference between apple and google support. Neither have official direct presence in support there.
<directhex> i don't think popey has good things to say about google support
<bigcalm_laptop> Hi peeps :)
<Myrtti> yeah I've read the saga
<Myrtti> bigcalm_laptop: hiya
<bigcalm_laptop> Hey Myrtti :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Myrtti: you and Duncan joining us for the RAT in September?
<Myrtti> he doesn't drink anything with alcohol and I don't drink beer, so it would be a bit of lost cause for us I'm afraid
<bigcalm_laptop> Myrtti: they have more than just ale. A rather fine cider for one, wine in the bar and soft drinks as wewll
<bigcalm_laptop> But it's not for everybody :)
<ali1234> hmmmmmm did a microsoft certificate get revoked recently?
<Myrtti> bigcalm_laptop: I'll have to ask him, it's a bit more tricky nowadays tho with his 8.30 - 17.30 office job.
<bigcalm_laptop> Myrtti: fair enough :)
<Myrtti> bloody meerkats.
<Myrtti> ahem.
<bigcalm_laptop> Hehe
<SuperMatt> dangit! my company meeting is on the same night as what *would* be the raring release party
<bigcalm_laptop> SuperMatt: have the meeting at the release party
<SuperMatt> well, our company meetings tend to end up at the pub...
<SuperMatt> but that'll be here in oxford circus, rather than at the hip south bank of london
<MartijnVdS> When/where is the Raring party?
<SuperMatt> it hasn't been decided yet
<popey> wat! snow!
<SuperMatt> it'll probably be on the 25th, which is the predicted release day
<SuperMatt> comic shop time!
<SuperMatt> back in a mo
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: are birthday wishes in order?
<popey> I just blew out some candles atop some profiter roles
<popey> also.
<popey> Snow!
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/ not showing up much
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: happy thingy wotsit to you :)
<popey> noted
<kvarley> OT: are all car cd player bay sizes the same?
<popey> kvarley: there are standards
<popey> DIN D, DIN E etc
<kvarley> popey: Ah ok, if I pull the thing out will it say on it somewhere?
<kvarley> Actually I could just measure it
<davmor2> popey: I second bigcalm_laptop 's sentiment
<popey> There is this thing called the internet âº
<kvarley> popey: heh
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_7736
<kvarley> thanks popey
<popey> np
<kvarley> Can I have SSH setup to use authorized hosts but not on a certain IP?
<kvarley> As in it will deny any unknown hosts from a foreign IP but from known IPs it will skip the check
<brobostigon> how do i view an email header in gmails web view?
<Myrtti> "see original"
<kvarley> Urgggh apparently uninstalling an app you just bought results in a refund on Android :(
<popey> depends on the timeline
<kvarley> I had the free version of an app installed then bought the pro and accidentally then removed the pro instead of the free version
<brobostigon> thank you Myrtti
<kvarley> Buying printers has to be the most boring task ever
<popey> printers are devices for causing pain
<bigcalm_laptop> Printer is on fire
<kvarley> popey: they work fine ... when you don't need them. As soon as you need to print something urgently all hell breaks loose
<popey> they also sometimes print stuff
<kvarley> hehe yeah
<kvarley> The model numbers make my head hurt
<kvarley> Why they can just say "Inkjet Mono V3" etc I don't know
<Myrtti> inlaws are probably buying Samsung monolaser-multitasker
<kvarley> I've got a problem with my parents tho, they both like colour
<kvarley> I keep finding good printers then realising they have only 1 colour cartridge. Separate cartridges are meant to be better aren't they?
<dogmatic69_> for some reason a ssh tunnel I created keeps breaking. It was working ok yesterday
<shauno> they can be quite fussy.  if it drops for any reason (hey, the internet's a scary place), and your end notices first, when it reconnects it won't be able to bind the ports that the remote version still has held open on the 'ghost'.  or vice versa.  especially when ssh-agent comes into play, and can keep them propped open when you're not watching
<dogmatic69> shauno: I think this time it was actually my internet that dropped.
<dogmatic69> I am gonna just make a cron to keep connecting if the connection is not there.
<kvarley> Does anybody know where XFWM4 stores the keyboard shortcuts configuration? I want to change the key used to grab and move windows via a config file. (The gui only lets you choose set options)
<bigcalm_laptop> davmor2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cqg503pqu8
<livingdaylight> Hi, anyone know about the lenovo ideapad S206 amd processor?
<popey> E1-1200 isnt it?
<livingdaylight> also, is dual-booting and generally installing Ubuntu on Windows8 machines as simple and straightforward as it ever has fbee
<livingdaylight> *has been?
<livingdaylight> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Ideapad-11-6-inch-Laptop-White/dp/B009ENCM0U
<livingdaylight> they're going cheap on eBay, and I'm considering it, but, for the amd processor and with the graphics card whether Ubuntu is going to be a smooth experience
<livingdaylight> popey: don't know about E1-1200
<popey> never used one
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/173481/amd-e1-1200-slow
<livingdaylight> AMD Dual Core E1200 1.3GHz  i see what you mean now - yes.
<livingdaylight> ooops, that's not a resounding endorsement on askubuntu - I'm glad I asked - thank you, popey
<livingdaylight> has a nice mac-look and keyboard, no hd and 11.6 - good for on the move
<livingdaylight> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190820358660?item=190820358660
<livingdaylight> Â£229 a good price though. One person who responded on askubuntu seems to suggest that the speed issue can be ameliorated if the correct driver is installed
<livingdaylight> integrated DirectX 11 graphics so different than the toshiba on askubuntu, popey
<livingdaylight> krikey http://clip2net.com/s/4RzTqT
<Myrtti> livingdaylight: :-D :-C
<livingdaylight> that's new to me
<livingdaylight> must be a while since I've gone to a torrent site
<MartijnVdS> naughty livingdaylight ;)
<livingdaylight> silly cat and mouse games
<aquarius> anyone know about bind mounts? I don't think I understand them. Imagine that I have a drive /dev/sdb, not mounted, ext3. In the root of that drive I have a folder, /stuff. Can I mount that /stuff folder on /home/aquarius/things? That is: on the drive, there is /stuff/file.ext. I would like that to be available as /home/aquarius/things/file.ext. I can mount /dev/sdb /somewhereelse and then mount --bind
<aquarius> /somewhereelse/stuff /home/aquarius/things, but I'd like to not have to do the somewhereelse step
<MartijnVdS> isn't a bind mount just a "symlink" mount?
<MartijnVdS> as in, a copy of a mount at a different mount point
<MartijnVdS> no wait
<aquarius> well. you seem to be able to bind mount a *subfolder* of a mounted thing at a different mountpoint, as well as the mount root.
<MartijnVdS> it's a view of a _directory_ in another place on the filesystem
<aquarius> but what I want to do is bind mount the subfolder without mounting the drive first :)
<MartijnVdS> unpossible, except maybe on network file systems
<aquarius> darn. that's what I thought you were going to say.
<MartijnVdS> btrfs can sort-of do it with subvolumes
<MartijnVdS> you can specify the subvolume to mount
<aquarius> I shall just have to mount it and then bind mount it.
<aquarius> bah humbug :)
<mungbean> mega fail. cannot make payment into wifes isa due to unkonwn error
<mungbean> today is last da yright?
<penguin42> tomorrow?
<penguin42> mungbean: Of course the question is whether the unknown error actually took the money or not
<mungbean> nope
<bigcalm> davmor2: I went to Halfords and ordered a unit. They'll also fit it. Hope to have it by Tuesday next week
<bigcalm> I've made it to the pointless fire puzzles in Opposing Forces. Every good game has its silly bits
<popey> bah, just shut my desktop down, its in the middle of being backed up, so wont actually shutdown
<popey> this is a good/bad thing
<bigcalm> It means you can chat on here for a little longer!
<popey> two computers
<popey> its the other one
<bigcalm> Swish
<popey> lol
<popey> see the silly mug I got for bday?
<bigcalm> No?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008D1M7KE
<bigcalm> Neat
<bigcalm> Does it feel creepy?
<bigcalm> Will it explode all other mugs in the cupboard?
 * StevenR_ wonders why amazon won't load
<StevenR_> and lo, it loads. *sigh*
<penguin42> StevenR_: I had a failure to load earlier on amazon as well - worked 2nd time
<mungbean> dear car people, why did my car need jump start today? battery and alternator are <1yr old
<popey> lights left on?
<popey> door left open?
<popey> lots of short journeys with lots of power items in use and not enough time to charge
<mungbean> a bit of the latter but it a new battery so thought that was a biy extreme
<mungbean> not charging anything or blowing air con on max
<popey> air con. get you
<mungbean> air con = hot blowers :)
<popey> my air con has been busted for years
<directhex> we have a 12000 btu air con
<directhex> for the chinchillas
<mungbean> what noise do they ch make?
<mungbean> sorry typing one handed, too much to type
<popey> I DEMAND YOU TYPE THE ENTIRE ANIMAL NAME - IN LATIN - BEFORE RESPONDING!
<mungbean> holding baby, nothing rude
<popey> ONE HAND IS NO EXCUSE!
<mungbean> ch*
<Myrtti> mungbean: something is shorting the system?
<mungbean> its possible Myrtti
<popey> its not a mini is it?
<Myrtti> I want a mini, what's wrong with minis?
<mungbean> focus estate diesel
<popey> I have had two experiences of shorting out in minis
<Myrtti> (I need a licence first)
<directhex> they mostly don't make noise
<directhex> they quack when annoyed though
<mungbean> they are girls cars, but Myrtti is a girl so its ok.
<directhex> they bark like a duck when disturbed.
<mungbean> they get grumpy too lol
<mungbean> my aceqauninatance has a non speakinng one
<mungbean> anyone used mediahint.com?
<mungbean> they also live for loads of years dony they?
<directhex> about the same as a cat
<directhex> if they die of old age
<popey> on one occasion the earth strap came away from the engine of a mini. So the only way the engine was grounded was through the carb, then through the accelerator cable. but it only grounded when foot was placed hard down on pedal, as the pedal hit the bulkhead
<popey> it would spark and then weld the accelerator pedal down to the floor
<popey> so the car would be stuck on full blast
<popey> which was fun and dangerous in equal measure
<popey> on the second occasion the live wire from the battery (which is in the boot) runs along side the (hot) exhaust pipe to the engine at the front.
<mungbean> :-|
<popey> rattle rattle exhaust, shakey shakey, rubs against live wire, eventually melting coating and shorting out the battery, intermittently cutting out the car
<popey> hilarious at 2AM on a dark road
<shauno> welding the accelerator pedal down is about the only way my old mini would have got past 70
<popey> ali1234: still have your n900? apparently the maemo repos are back up?
<Myrtti> now there's a name I've not heard for a while
<mungbean> remember when you could actually find the books you want in a library? my london library cataloguie search features an amazon banner..i know why
<popey> libraries.. i remember those
<ali1234> popey: yes i still have it. i don't use it and i certainly wouldn't try to update the software on it
<ali1234> last time i tried, apt-get update took about 2 hours
<mungbean> yeah, have been going with my son lately but adult selection across the borough is lame
<ali1234> and it does it every time you launch the package manager, and after every time you install a package
<mungbean> by adult, i mean books for grown ups, rather than smut, of which there is a lot of
<ali1234> i didn't even know the repos went down tbh
<mungbean> 50 shades has a lot to answer for
<directhex> i support 50 shades
<directhex> it's terrible erotica, and a poor portrayal of bdsm lifestyle
<directhex> but it's made it okay to talk about bdsm in the supermarket. which i think is healthy for society
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> not sure if joking or not
<dwatkins> http://www.firebox.com/product/5442/50-Shades-of-Grey-Poster
<directhex> just as sex & the city made it okay for "normal women" to talk about vibes. i don't like the show as a show, but it broke a barrier
 * popey chuckles at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTtyyaPFe8
<mungbean> reminds me of the pulp fiction they produced in 1984 to keep the proles from thinking about anything
<ali1234> popey that demo is awful
<popey> yeah, but it was one of the only ones I saw back in the day
 * popey retires with beer, nuts and jonathan creek
<mungbean> just realised ive had my white noise running for 2 hrs without noticing,
<mungbean> reminds me of working in a modern office with a/c
<mungbean> watche jon creek yesterday
<andylockran> hey
<andylockran> can anyone help me set up a direct ethernet connection between a macbook pro 8,1 and a Acer Revo (running ubuntu) ?
<andylockran> i'm not sure if a crossover ethernet cable is required?
<dwatkins> andylockran: if the interfaces are gigabit, no
<ali1234> so how do i use apparmor then?
<ali1234> like say i've got this program and i want to limit the files it can open...
<penguin42> ali1234: See some example in /etc/apparmor.d
<ali1234> can i do system wde stuff? like "only this binary can access these files"
<penguin42> not that I'm aware of with apparmor
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/1NgAVZsH
<penguin42> ali1234: Right, so you're trying to do something like only let your bitcoin wrangler have access to your wallet?
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> specifically i want to stop all the daemons from looking at each other's stuff
<penguin42> so I don't think that's possible with apparmor, I think it's only a way to lock down a specific process/tree
<ali1234> i currently have: bitcoind, namecoind, litecoind, ixcoind, i0coind, ppcoind, terracoind, nvccoind, solidcoind, mincoind, bytecoind
<penguin42> ali1234: You *can* do it with selinux in full enforce mode but it's a true PITA - and somewhere between impossible really hard with Uubntu
<ali1234> and i don't want any of them to be stealing my wallets
<penguin42> ali1234: Why don't you drop your bitcoins into a vm, and encrypt that VMs storage from the VM side; yes it would be possible to do it from a hacked host but a heck of a lot harder
<ali1234> because i would need 11+ VMS
<ali1234> i want to prevent terracoind from stealing my bitcoin wallet
<penguin42> why?
<ali1234> and sending it to terracoin developer
<penguin42> why would you need multiple VMs?
<ali1234> one for bitcoin, one for terracoin
<ali1234> one each for the other 9
<penguin42> sorry, I don't know the details of bitcoins/terracoins etc
<ali1234> they are all identical
<ali1234> they all store a wallet.dat with your private keys
<ali1234> i want to protect that file by only allowing one binary on the system to read it
<penguin42> ok, then I think the only thing that can do that is selinux
<ali1234> so if i make a selinux VM?
<penguin42> ali1234: yeh, it's probably easiest to use Fedora/CentOS for that - although you might be able to get away with Ubuntu since you're only trying to protect a few files
<penguin42> ali1234: (but you also have to protect all the processes that can access them I guess)
<penguin42> ali1234: Be aware that SElinux is quite tricky to get right; but again because you're only really trying to protect a few files it may be easier
<penguin42> ali1234: is it not more practical to protect this from a network point of view if your worry is about where it connects to?
<penguin42> ali1234: The other thing you could try looking at is either containters or simple chroots
<ali1234> it's p2p so that is not really practical
<penguin42> ali1234: If you;re worry is about specific processes then you can just run those as different users, and/or run with apparmor, trying to make sure nothing else can access a specific file is much harder
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-05
<redtape> Just trying Gubuntu for first time .. here goes | back in an hour ... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-gnome/daily-live/current/
<davmor2> bigcalm: how much will it be ffitted?
<bootkigftrgds> Well Gubuntu works .. except for the software center (command line hell, I'm in again, today :(  )
<AlanBell> is the ubuntu-gnome spin materially different to starting from an ubuntu unity install and adding gnome-shell?
<bigcalm> davmor2: 30 quid for fitting. I'm sure I could do it myself, but I'd rather have a professional mess about with trim. 2p less than Â£180 all in
<BigRedS> AlanBell: starting from Xubuntu and Lubuntu still gets a Gnome with the unity wonkiness, so I don't see why a gnome remix wouldn't
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> if you start with xubuntu and then install gnome it ends up not working at all
<ali1234> just so you know
<BigRedS> The multiple "Online Accounts" thing is listed as a known issue, but with the suggestion that this might be fixed in 13.04
<ali1234> for example, if you xdg-open any file it opens with nautilus no matter what type of file it is
<BigRedS> ali1234: I've two PCs running exactly that
<BigRedS> Xubuntu 12.10, installed whatever the gnome-shell desktop package is
<ali1234> if you go from xubuntu to gnome you probably won't notice any of the things that it breaks
<ali1234> becausee xubuntu is horribly broken to start with
<BigRedS> ubuntu-gnome-desktop
<ali1234> something similar happens if you install KDE on any version that isn't kubuntu
<BigRedS> I went from Xubuntu 'cause that wsa the ISO I had knocking around; I don't use XFCE
<ali1234> basically it doesn't work, never has, and probabyly never will
<BigRedS> There's lots of broken in Ubuntu's Gnome Shell, but it's workable.
<ali1234> i'm not using shell
<BigRedS> And, really, most of my problems are that online accounts thing
<ali1234> online accounts doesn't even do anything or have any purpose
<BigRedS> I've not found any other way to get my config into empathy
<ali1234> yes, well, empathy doesn't do anything or have any purpose either
<BigRedS> except to have not yet run it, and instead configure everything in pidgin, then start Empathy for the first time and have it migrate
<BigRedS> Empathy does jabber and integrates into a DE reasonably well
<BigRedS> That's more than most IM clients have going for them
<ali1234> pidgin does jabber better than empathy does, and integrates into the desktop better than empathy does, plus it doesn't render all chats in annoying huge speech bubbles
<BigRedS> I don't understand why notifications in general need be so much less useful than they used to be, but Empathy and Gnome-shell is my favourite pairing so far
<BigRedS> I really like empathy's little pop-ups at the bottom of the screen
<ali1234> that is gnome not empathy
<BigRedS> Empathy's the only IM client that uses them as far as I can tell
<ali1234> nope
<BigRedS> What else does?
<ali1234> anything that uses notify-osd pops up at the bottom of the screen in gnome
<ali1234> which means pidgin does it
<BigRedS> And lets me type replies in there?
<ali1234> i dunno, i don't use it
<BigRedS> I've not found anything that does
<ali1234>  turned off notifications because they are just annoying
<BigRedS> I've not looked that hard for some time, but none of the extensuions I could find would do it either
<ali1234> i also turned off system tray because it serves no purpose
<ali1234> there is so much junk on the desktop that has no reason to exist
<BigRedS> That's what passes for per-app notifications now isn't it?
<ali1234> lierally the only thing that you might need from the systray is the volume control
<ali1234> and if you have multimedia keyboard you don't even need that
<BigRedS> Oh, the systray's the thing at the top?
<ali1234> yes
<BigRedS> yeah, that's the only place you get notifications that don't require that you see them when they come in
<ali1234> but then it shows them to you anyway
<BigRedS> I dont' get why the stuff on that autohidey thing at the bottom isn't on the panel at the top
<BigRedS> if I'm always going to lose that 16px or whatever by default I'd rather it not be spent just showing a black stripe
<ali1234> i don't know what you're talking about
<ali1234> remember i don't use gnome shell
<BigRedS> Oh yeah
<ali1234> sounds lke you are talking about some kind of dock
<BigRedS> What are you using?
<ali1234> classic
<BigRedS> I'm more ranting than talking :) I should probably just do some work
<BigRedS> Oh blimey. Party like it's 2003 :)
<ali1234> have you seen the new gnome classic?
<ali1234> it's hilarious
<ali1234> it only exists to look like gnome-panel in screenshots
<ali1234> it still has all the same problems as gnome-shell when you actually use it
<BigRedS> haha
<SuperMatt> I actually quite enjoyed the symbiosis
<JamesTait> Good morning, people, happy Walk to Work Day! :-D
<AlanBell> oh, I was going to cycle
<BigRedS> I've already conceded to public transport
<BigRedS> is that why I got a seat on the tube?
<AlanBell> well I have walked so far, but only down the stairs
<bigcalm> I walked from bedroom to home office, does that count?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: you asked in #ubuntuone the folks there are really helpful when it comes to online accounts
<BigRedS> czajkowski: no, it's not an ubuntu one problem, just an empathy one. They do that, too?
<czajkowski> not sure anyone can help with empathy but either there or in #ubuntu-destop
<czajkowski> which may be better as there are more people awake in this timezone
<BigRedS> Allegedly, though, this is somehow fixed in 13.04 (or will be) so perhaps this problem will disappear in a few weeks :)
<mungbean> can someone do a tldr summary of the game risk?
<BigRedS> Divvy the world up between players who have armies of a size based roughly on what proporportion of the world they control. Each turn is a (potential) war.  Objective is to control the whole world.
<mungbean> so a bit lame with 2 players
<BigRedS> yeah, you'd basically have a cold war
<mungbean> have lotr risk on shelf,never played/opened
<bootkigftrgds> AlanBell: I tried that some time ago .. and I can't remember now (to answer your question from 09:10am)
<MooDoo> hello all
<kvarley> bigcalm: What's in the Ubuntu box
<Myrtti> I am surprised, I managed to get my encrypted Galaxy Nexus to display over MTP just fine on the Debian
 * kvarley shudders ... MTP
<kvarley> It'll be nice when Ubuntu supports it out of the box
<directhex> the problem with MTP is how many devices are out of spec
<directhex> but only slightly
<directhex> so they need special casing
<kvarley> directhex: Out of spec? So they're breaking standards?
<directhex> yes
<kvarley> Lame
<bigcalm> Standards, like rules, are made for one thing
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Yes. They exist so you can go "That doesn't quite apply to my situation", and invent a new one.
<bigcalm> :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: Ubuntu supports it fine in raring
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I've been able to browse my Galaxy Nexus since early this year I think :)
<directhex> windows phone 8 works fine via mtp if you patch mtp's special casing list & just add it as a no-workarounds device
<davmor2> Morning all
<Myrtti> I am a bit surprised that the upgraded version isn't in Debian unstable
<Myrtti> but it is in Raring.
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's not a bad price for fitting to be fair
<MartijnVdS> directhex: the new libmtp approach seems to be a lot better :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm more than happy for it to happen somewhere locally by a large company
<directhex> MartijnVdS, new approach?
<bigcalm> davmor2: yesterday's purchase came this morning, how quick?
<Myrtti> atleast that's how I read packages.debian.org
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's impressive, and is it everything you expected it to be?
<bigcalm> davmor2: the build quality is good. The output lacks bass, which is a shame. Otherwise thumbs up
<davmor2> Yay
<davmor2> bigcalm: hows the nfc audio?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: what did you buy?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yeah, I'm not on raring yet. I shied away from non-stable ubuntu releases after 12.10 caused me a lot of problems
<MartijnVdS> directhex: old libmtp read every file on the device, and timed out on new Android
<bigcalm> Myrtti: just tweeted the reveal :)
<Myrtti> oh, car stereo
<MartijnVdS> directhex: new libmtp reads as-required
<Myrtti> ?
<Myrtti> meh twitter, alright I'll go have look
<bigcalm> Myrtti: no, DAB for my car is a separate order to be completed on Tuesday :)
<Myrtti> nfc? I didn't think that used NFC
<MartijnVdS> it's bt or wifi.. unlikely to be nfs
<MartijnVdS> nfc
<directhex> MartijnVdS, but it doesn't touch devices it doesn't think are mtp
<Myrtti> I thought it used black magic
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Myrtti> ie. neither wifi or bt
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I'm with you on the bm
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yes, that's still annoying
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Scandinavians and their black magic.. :)
<davmor2> Myrtti: nfc audio or it has a mic that picks up the sound an magnifies it
<bootkigftrgds> Aren't black magic some kind of chocolates ??
<Myrtti> davmor2: the latter I think is what we concluded the last time we looked it up
<bigcalm> davmor2: it does feel like it has a mic to do just that, but the audio quality is too high for that I think
<davmor2> Myrtti: the spec does say nfc audio
<Myrtti> davmor2: Near-FA is what I'm reading
<Myrtti> "A NearFAâ¢ speaker can magically amplify the sound of an iPhone (or other mobile devices) by just placing the iPhone next to the speaker without configuration."
<Myrtti> they call it magic themselves
<Myrtti> case closed
<dwatkins> I have an iPhone stand which uses a little chamber to amplify the sound from the speakers underneath.
<davmor2> only worry when the magic smoke escapes
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I'll be using it to play podcasts/spotify in the kitchen and hotel visits
<Myrtti> sounds good, it might even get less interference from a microwave oven than bluetooth
<Myrtti> I've started to keep my phone on top of jar of Vanish that's next to our kitchen bluetooth speaker
<NET||abuse> hi guys. i'm in work and i wanted to pull the audio from my windows desktop through the headphones on my laptop, a pulse audio network method would be cool, but taking an audio 3.5mm cable connected the headphones out on the desktop the line in on the laptop.
<NET||abuse> There was no way to unmute or pipe line in audio to the pulse output, until i found parec | pacat
<NET||abuse> so i have a terminal window livving off on another workspace all day with that running in it.
<NET||abuse> But is there a less raw, pulse volume manager integrated method to do this?
<NET||abuse> parec and pcat come up in pa volume manager as their own app instances with volume sliders, so you can control the volume on the fly which is good,
<NET||abuse> ofcourese i added the --latency-msec=1 to both commands otherwise you end up with about 4 or 5 seconds delay on the audio.
<NET||abuse> but otherwise, it's working
<mungbean> youtube auto captions are worse than useless http://ubuntuone.com/4yfHEwm0gb6o9ivODle89T
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they work well for clear voices with no background noise, in proper American English
<MartijnVdS> "proper"
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Have you heard Americans speak English, I think you'll find there is nothing English about it :)
<Nafallo> lol
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I think it sounds vaguely Englishish
 * popey is having trouble finding a mod tool that works on osx
<popey> for a friend
<popey> âº
<davmor2> popey: it's okay we know how much you love Apple products you can say it's for you :D
 * popey is getting a lunch made for him for doing this
<popey> if I can
<mgdm> a mod tool?
<DJones> Isn't a "mod tool" better known as a Vespa Scooter /me shows his age
<davmor2> popey: what mod tool
<popey> mcpatcher
<davmor2> DJones: only if it has lots of wing mirrors
 * popey asks in #minecraft
<davmor2> popey:  is this not what you are after then http://mcpatcher-hd-fix-mac.en.softonic.com/mac
<MartijnVdS> Something to edit .mod files?!
<Nafallo> popey: http://milkytracker.org/?about
<popey> using mcpatcher
<Nafallo> popey: you supplied the context too darn late. I had already found milkytracker for you.
<Myrtti> ungrateful little git ;-)
<ali1234> isn't mcpatcher written in java tho?
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure i've used it on linux before so it must be
<mungbean> anyone have a fixed rate halifax isa? having some problems adding to it
<penguin42> mungbean: I've never tried doing anything on line with it
 * penguin42 always does phone or battles with the idiots in branch
<mungbean> have a fixed rate fixed term one
<mungbean> think i might have to open a new one
<penguin42> yeh, I wouldn't expect to be able to add to an existing one
<mungbean> u can usually
<penguin42> not my experience with the fixed rate stuff
<mungbean> looking for a new airbrush
<mungbean> not sure whether to splash cash on a nice one considering i lost my man cave
<kvarley> Is baking a multiarch Ubuntu live DVD possible?
<penguin42> why wouldn't you just use a 32bit dvd? or you mean that can install either 32 or 64?
<kvarley> penguin42: Yes, I need to be able to boot either 32 or 64 depending on what the computer is. I see debian has a multi-arch disc so it is technically possible. I'll have to have a look at the build tools ubuntu uses
<mungbean> only if u are doing it for fun, as the price of a dvd and dual dvd case is trivial compared to time taken to do this
<shauno> I'd think the biggest downside would be the space used.  most distros are already right up to the line (and sometimes dipping a toe over) on how much they can fit on install/live media
<shauno> so every binary you have to double up for x86/64 builds requires a sacrifice to disk space elsewhere
<MartijnVdS> 32-bit computers still exist!?! :P
<mungbean> my eee pc
<kvarley> shauno: But it would still fit on a DVD, no?
<penguin42> shauno: Well it crept past the line on CD, but on DVD I'd have thought there was space
<shauno> depends what you're starting off with :)  how many packages are on a livecd is a 'how long is a peice of string' issue, I can count it for you :)
<kvarley> I think the system will be XFCE, LibreOffice, Thunderbird and Firefox. That's it, all other apps aren't needed at this stage.
<czajkowski> BigRedS: how did the testing go
<borderer> Has anyone loaded raspberrypi with ubuntu 12.04 server.
<bootkigftrgds> no
<borderer> Thanks for that - it probibly saved me a lot of pain
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu isn't really available for Raspberry Pi
<MartijnVdS> the Ubuntu ARM port is compiled for a newer version of ARM
<AlanBell> indeed, it won't wokr
<AlanBell> or work
<AlanBell> use raspbian, it is almost the same
<MartijnVdS> â¥ Raspbian
<AlanBell> http://www.nicholsonspubs.co.uk/theoldthamesideinnlondonbridge/ <- release meetup venue
<MartijnVdS> Also, class 6 cards tend to have better random-access performance than Class 10 ones
<MartijnVdS> (SD cards)
<MartijnVdS> SciShow about Ada Lovelace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBbVbqRvqTM
<borderer> I have my Pi working with Raspian OK but always used Ubuntu
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2329-1304-release-party/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: aww, two weeks before I'm in the country ;)
<redtape|renegade> AlanBell: How's the Barber-ing going ? .. or have you finished for now ?
 * redtape|renegade doesn't want that elephant conversation, again ! :-[
<MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: the one in the room, you mean?
<redtape|renegade> MartijnVdS: I feel sorry for him , he seems left out ! http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/325/Irrelephant%203.0.png
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: So.. how does it feel to be rich? :)
<MartijnVdS> s/rich/filthy &/
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: good, I'm actually trying to buy a house now
<Azelphur> and get the business declared
<Azelphur> 5 months from poor and on benefits to buying a house, crazy.
<zleap> Azelphur, what you been up to then
<Azelphur> btc trading
<zleap> ok
<zleap> btc ?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I saw a guy raffling his house in Canada 8-)
<Azelphur> zleap: https://www.weusecoins.com/
<zleap> oh bit coin
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, I'll probably be buying for GBP of course ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: for only Â£50 worth of btc
<Azelphur> but I've been searching for a place, and a mortgage advisor says I should be ok to get a mortgage
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: weisecoins = yours?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope
<mungbean> Azelphur: how much did u make off btc bubble?
<Azelphur> mungbean: I've been steadily profiting off BTC for a long while, but on this bubble I'm still profiting, I've made about 10k
<MartijnVdS> Nice :)
<Azelphur> the demand in UK surged, I was selling with a Â£40ish split, crazy.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: we should have listened ;)
<Azelphur> ;)
<Azelphur> I have an uncanny ability to call the market
<Azelphur> I have called every significant event so far and played every card correctly
 * MartijnVdS is holding on to a bought-at-$18 bitcoin
<ali1234> "a" bitcoin
<ali1234> lel
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: 1.0000000 :)
<ali1234> i wanna buy something with bitcoin
<Azelphur> ali1234: pizza!
<MartijnVdS> I think you can buy Azelphur a beer ;)
<ali1234> and not reddit gold
<Azelphur> ali1234: You can get SSDs really cheap in USA often, MBS on otc will buy and reship for you
<Azelphur> I got some good stuff via MBS from USA for cheap :D
<ali1234> not a bad idea
<Azelphur> I got 3 x 3TB HDD in the black friday sales
<Azelphur> $99 a pop
<ali1234> i don't really need any more computer stuff though
<Azelphur> found a house I like this morning within my budget, only problem is it's right around the corner from former serial killers house xD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: does he still live there?
<mgdm> that's probably why it's within your budget
<Azelphur> nah, they caught him
<Azelphur> mgdm: haha
<MartijnVdS> so what's the problem? :)
<Azelphur> area seems nice enough that said
<mgdm> (not meaning to be insulting, Azelphur :)
<Azelphur> mgdm: haha indeed
<Azelphur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Tobin literally this guy lived on the end of the street xD
<Azelphur> "Skeletal remains of a further two young women who went missing in 1991 were subsequently found at his former home inÂ Margate,Â Kent." <-- end of street
<mungbean> u live margate?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> but besides that it's all quite nice really, area looks really nice, it's a crescent so would be quiet, lots of families and stuff living there, looks clean and quiet, etc :p
<mungbean> ever been to th hornby centre?
<Azelphur> so might go for that one
<Azelphur> mungbean: nope
<mungbean> :-o
<mungbean> id be there every day
<Azelphur> I didn't even know there was a hornby centre
 * Azelphur is a hermit
<ali1234> Azelphur: you should open an exchange
<ali1234> for the alt-chains
 * Azelphur shrugs
<ali1234> doublec closed his
<ali1234> there is a gap in the market
<Azelphur> yea, I was actually working on one a while back but never finished it
<Azelphur> I got scared with all the tax stuff and decided to stay under the radar
<mungbean> i was your age in the dotcom bubble, it lookjs the same. virtual prices that mean nothing, inflated by speculators wanting a piece ofa action
<Azelphur> maybe when I get fully tax sorted, I will
<ali1234> mungbean: yeah that whole internet thing was a fad right?
<mungbean> well china.com portal site was an eca
<mungbean> example
<mungbean> anything called a portal was suddenly worth millions for no reason
<ali1234> the bubble already burst once on bitcoin
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: several times even
<mungbean> not properly
<ali1234> i wouldn't go that far
<ali1234> this is only the second time it's gone over $10
<mungbean> http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g503912-d1943960-Reviews-The_Hornby_Visitor_Centre-Margate_Isle_of_Thanet_Kent_England.html
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'm likely to do a 10k buy soon :P
<Azelphur> no risk no gain ;)
<AlanBell> so who is the money coming from?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: which money?
<AlanBell> your successful trading buying low and selling high is great, but someone must be on the short end of the stick
<ali1234> people who actually use bitcoin
<Azelphur> AlanBell: the unwashed masses I guess, the same goes with any stock trader
<mungbean> AlanBell: other speculators
<ali1234> if you actually buy something with bitcoin you pay a premium
<AlanBell> yeah, I am surprised there are enough regular people in the system for speculators to extract profit
<ali1234> because those bitcoins end up getting sold at market
<mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_bubble
<ali1234> there is a lot of manipulation too
<MartijnVdS> the latest Euro scares + lots of press make lots of people want to try/buy bitcoin as well
<MartijnVdS> I've seen articles about Bitcoin in 4 major newspapers in the Netherlands alone
<MartijnVdS> in the last week
<ali1234> yeah that's driving the current bubble
<mungbean> during the dotcom bubble,my friend began to think it impossible to lose, since everything was wildly fluctuating, but ultimately rising
<ali1234> also money laundering, don't forget that
<mungbean> he kept doubling pup his invesment in one particular company
<mungbean> and lost 10k
<mungbean> i was buying shares in ARM that have only recently reached their dotcom prices
<ali1234> why would you buy more if the price keeps rising?
<ali1234> that right there is why speculators can make so much money
<mungbean> because u don't know when its gonna drop
<mungbean> false confidence
<mungbean> when it dropped, it aws like a knife
<ali1234> it's like reverse-martingale or something
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: a bit like Skrillex
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you never know when it's going to drop
<mungbean> i had shares in kewill which went from Â£80 per shares to 45p
<ali1234> if the price doubles you sell 50%
<ali1234> if it doubles again you sell another 50%
<ali1234> when it crashes you buy more
<mungbean> not if you get greedy
<mungbean> gamblers' regret
<ali1234> gambling is really dumb :/
<ali1234> also gambling is a big driver of bitcoin
<mungbean> yes
<ali1234> satoshi dice spamming up the chain
<mungbean> ethically i wouldn't speculate on it
<ali1234> à² _à² 
<mungbean> what i did on shares in the 90s i told myself i was investing, but it wa sgambling really
<mungbean> i mean morally, rather than ethically
<ali1234> i already cashed ot my initial investment a long time ago so i cannot lose at this point
<mungbean> maybe you dont have that tendency to gamble
<mungbean> which is good
<ali1234> not at all
<ali1234> especially pure chance games like dice
<ali1234> it's just stupid
<ali1234> you cannot ever win
<mungbean> it feeds greed and is horrible, i steer well away nowadays
<mungbean> i got into fruit machines as a student. i never won, or could afford it
<ali1234> the people that do it are literally addicted
<AlanBell> you should only gamble with money you don't want
<ali1234> no, you should not even do that
<mungbean> agree with ali1234
<ali1234> there's literally no reason to do it unless you are in vegas getting comped for what you lose
<ali1234> even then it would be less like hard work to just spend the money on a party and not have to stand there and roll dice or count cards or whatever
<mungbean> every other shop in east end is a chicken shop or  a betting shop.
<mungbean> in one of the poorest parts of the country
<ali1234> chicken shop? like fried chicken?
<mungbean> they wouldnt be there if they didnt makje a packet
<ali1234> or is this slang for pawn shop?
<mungbean> no, just chicken
<mungbean> fried
<ali1234> if you go on that site that has stuff you can download, you know the one
<ali1234> you can search for a show called "gambling, addiction, and me: the real hustler"
<ali1234> in that show he mentions this: in poor areas there are 3 pawn shops and 4 betting shops on the high street
<mungbean> but the betting shops , how can they be every third shop in such a poor area?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: why do you think the area is poor?
<ali1234> it's only like that in poor areas
<ali1234> that's how you tell
<mungbean> its worse in poor areas
<ali1234> you don't see pawn shops in rich areas
<mungbean> allegedly a very muslim area
<mungbean> which might reduce the number of customers(are muslims allowed to gamvblr)
<mungbean> but they still do very well.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: officially, they're not.. not that it stops them, of course ;)
<mungbean> maybe not, but i wonder what market research is done, and how
<mungbean> and who allows it? local council?
<mungbean> in the last 10 years gambling has exploded
<mungbean> ads on the tv have proliferated
<mungbean> in place of alcohol and fags ads
<mungbean> Azelphur: they are doing make and paint days during easter :P http://www.hornby.com/hornby-visitor-centre/make-and-paint/
<mungbean> you lucky boy
<Azelphur> cool :D
<ali1234> but easter was last week
<ali1234> -end
<mungbean> 1st-14th
<Azelphur> xD
<mungbean> u get to make a kit amd take it home
<ali1234> oh, two weeks off school for the kids?
<ali1234> anyway, what's wrong with fried chicken? it's the original fast food
<ali1234> it's not even that bad for you compared with most others
<mungbean> i like it,
<mungbean> i was adding a fact to the story
<mungbean> chicken/betting/pub/chicken/betting/co-op/cash&carry/curry house/betting shop..
<ali1234> you're lucky if you have a co-op
<ali1234> i've lived in places where the only place to buy food in a 2 mile radius is the crisps at the off license
<ali1234> and this is in the middle of a city
<ali1234> plenty of betting shops tho à² _à² 
<mungbean> trampoline clips on youvebeenframed...dont think this endswell
<locodir> hi guys anyone here?
<dwatkins> kinda
<locodir> i have a question regarding  ubuntu for server
<locodir> i am pretty much new  to ubuntu i am using windows 2003 server on VM
<AlanBell> locodir: what is the question?
<locodir> is ubuntu good for server ? how does it perform with apache and mysql
<AlanBell> performs just fine
<locodir> is it recommended to use a different machine for server ?
<dwatkins> so long as it's not a slow system and has enough RAM, yeah, no problems
<dwatkins> different from the virtual host, locodir?
<dwatkins> depends on what sort of load you're talking - at home, I'd just put everything on one machine (although I probably wouldn't run Windows Server in a VM), but for enterprise systems, I'd keep them separate.
<AlanBell> yeah, depends completely on load
<dwatkins> What does the Windows Server run?
<locodir>  i hv  it currently on  my pc on which i do  my dailys  the load isnt much as ihv just started working on my blog
<dwatkins> you might be able to host that on linux too.
<AlanBell> I would expect a single system to be faster for low loads but a spread out system to be capable of responding more linearly to high loads
<locodir> i was bit worried about malware due to incoming connection from port 80
<AlanBell> if you are using wordpress or another php application then always update it as soon as updates are available
<dwatkins> if you allow users to log in and upload their own PHP scripts, that's a risk.
<dwatkins> also, look up 'denyhosts' if you do.
<dwatkins> ...or 'fail2ban'
<locodir> yeah
<AlanBell> if it is just a blog, and you keep wordpress updated it should be fine, thousands of people run it
<dwatkins> What are you hosting on Windows, locodir?
<locodir> yeah  but my windows server 2003 would crash frequently
<dwatkins> that doesn't sound good
<locodir> i was just developing my own blog
<dwatkins> I'd be very concerned if my Windows server crashed; I have one at work that runs for weeks on end without any such problems.
<locodir> i was using iis now i hv switched to apache
<locodir> well  but i guess it was kinda my fault as i had left very lil memory and space for vm and load was quite high
<dwatkins> that shouldn't make it crash, but perhaps there's something else going on
<Pyongyang> Hi All!
<locodir> thats why im thinking of  making my old laptop the server with linux and then use ftp
<locodir> moreover which language would u prefer for web development django or php?
<dwatkins> I have a netbook as my home server, locodir - it runs really well.
<locodir> i plan to make my lenovo  3000 n 200  as the new server
<Pyongyang> We will destroy the USA and its allies
<Pyongyang> Long Live North Korea!
 * dwatkins adds Pyongyang to his ignore list
<locodir> is django better than php for beginners?
<dwatkins> I suspect they're aimed at quite different environments.
<dwatkins> Django appears to be aimed at making apps easily, PHP is a versatile language.
<dwatkins> I'm sure they both have their merits.
<locodir> i started with django for a couple of months and now hv switched to php still not sure which one to go with
<dwatkins> I haven't written much PHP, I tend to use apps which have already been written, such as Wordpress.
<locodir> even though django is pretty cool  to off in school
<dwatkins> to off?
<locodir> show"
<dwatkins> ah right
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-06
<popey> Morning
<kvarley> popey: \0
<kvarley> popey: How goes it?
<popey> ok âº
<kvarley> Does anybody know of any sample LibreOffice files? I just need some files to show somebody that LibreOffice in action is pretty nice
<popey> google .odt etc?
<kvarley> Didn't find much doing that, plus no idea about licenses
<kvarley> I'm using generatedata.com to get some spreadsheet files & then will just find some text and paste into a writer doc
<mungbean> how about opening their existing work in LO to see if it works ok?
<kvarley> mungbean: Don't have their work yet, this is a demo :)
<popey> there used to be some stuff in the example-content package
<popey> might still be on lucid
<shauno> I was gonna say, the livecd used to have that
<MartijnVdS> ooh, bytemark's new virtualisation platform is cool & shiny :)
<MartijnVdS> g'morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<kvarley> How do I work out what screen DPI I need when the only figure I have is PPI ?
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> PPI = pixels per inch, DPI = dots per inch
<MartijnVdS> which shoul be exactly the same :)
<kvarley> Apparently they aren't tho :/
<MartijnVdS> well X locks DPI at 96 I think, because otherwise some programs look horrible
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I was gonna override X settings via Xresouces.
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: My screen is 300 ppi, so you think if I set to 300 dpi it'll look ok?
<MartijnVdS> it should.. but some programs might not cope well
<kvarley> It's just everything is tiny otherwise
<MartijnVdS> http://askubuntu.com/questions/60044/how-do-i-change-the-font-dpi-settings
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: ^ you need that answer :)
<kvarley> But then I'll still be running at 96 api
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: not a problem
<kvarley> But won't it mean I the pixels are more noticable
<MartijnVdS> no
<kvarley> What on earth is DPI for then? lol
<MartijnVdS> It used to be for scaling fonts to the same size on all kinds of displays
<sebsebseb> hi
<MartijnVdS> But a lot of toolkits/programs were written without that in mind
<MartijnVdS> or doing it wrong (because for a long time, screens were 96dpi or close to it)
<MartijnVdS> (so people had no real way to check)
<kvarley>  MartijnVdS: So screen resolution and dpi doesn't really matter? Confused
<kvarley> The relationship between them that is
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: dpi = number of dots (pixels) in every inch of display
<MartijnVdS> this changes with the resolution you set
<MartijnVdS> BUT
<MartijnVdS> X keeps it at 96 regardless of which resolution or what size screen you have
<kvarley> Ah ok
<MartijnVdS> except if you force-change it, which might confuse programs (which is why it's force-set at 96)
<kvarley> I wonder what Mir will do ;)
<popey> hello sebsebseb
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<sebsebseb> popey: any tips on organising a release party? bringing people together etc, from all over hte country etc
<sebsebseb> popey: they finally want them done for Mageia :d  new release next month
<jacobw> Mageia?
<sebsebseb> jacobw: yeah
<sebsebseb> one of  thousands of other distros
<kvarley> jacobw: Mandriva based
<sebsebseb> Mandriva fork
<kvarley> Ah, yeah, my bad :)
<jacobw> I've never used Mandriva
<mungbean> my 10.04 PC on my desk at work \o/  13:17:00 up 365 days, 22:04,  3 users,  load average: 0.36, 0.50, 0.33
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: time for an upgrade & reboot!
<mungbean> how dare thee
<mungbean> on it's uptime birthday?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> especially!
<mungbean> mmmm bacon o'clock
<mungbean> awesome pic of the day: http://imgur.com/A9KIIFj
<popey> sebsebseb: generally, organise one and people will turn up
<popey> so long as it's in a place people can get to (e.g. London) and not somewhere ridiculously far away from civilisation (e.g. Scotland)
<popey> </troll>
<brobostigon> or banbury.
 * StevenR_ glares at popey 
<mungbean> i'm getting recommendations for a video that i don't want , after i've removed it from my history - any ideas how to properly purge it?
<kvarley> I've never heard my CPU fan kick in until now, squashing a VM FS :)
<SuperEngineer> Reginex [aka all the silly "is now known as"] is now known as an official pain i.t.a.  Can't someone kick/ban?
<DJones> ?
<SuperEngineer> DJones: to give more info would be to feed.  PM?
<DJones> Thats fine
<daubers> Morning
<mungbean> late night?
<daubers> mungbean: Wrong time zone
 * daubers is in Vegas for a trade show
<MartijnVdS> and the gambling
<MartijnVdS> and the women
<daubers> Nah, don't gamble and am married....
<MartijnVdS> .. the view?
<mungbean> desert?
<SuperEngineer> ..the lack of natural water?
<mungbean> vegas is the worst place on earth IMHO...my sympathies
<shauno> I believe they have a notable hole in the floor that they claim is even bigger than the cheddar gorge
<MartijnVdS> hm, I think my hot water/heating company is trying to get me to shower more often
<MartijnVdS> that, or they've gotten a LOT cheaper
<daubers> s/hot water\/heating company/girlfriend
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm getting half my deposit back
<daubers> Oh.....?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: which means I've been paying too much since I've been living here.. or prices have gone down dramatically
<daubers> Arghhhh! Wrong! BBC News has adverts!!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: muhahaha
<MartijnVdS> daubers: do you have BBC America (Doctor Who!)
<daubers> Don't think so
<daubers> Might setup a proxy in the office DC and route stuff through there
 * SuperEngineer sees queue of mothers on BBC News by the sign MMR jabs this way.... /me plots ;)
<brobostigon> new dr who in an hour, :)
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: already got reminder set :)
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: :)
<SuperEngineer> Anyone bet on thew Grand National today? [I bet on one called Unity]...
<SuperEngineer> ...some thought it wouldn't make past the start line.. others thought it would limp home... some thought it would win]
<SuperEngineer> [I didn't mind... I also had money on "Cairo dock"]
 * SuperEngineer places bet on next years Cheltenham Gold cup... money now on "El-T-Ess   :D
<SuperEngineer> Dr. Who minus 40, folks
<brobostigon> beer ready, :)
<MartijnVdS> TV time :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Still haven't watch last week's
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: too late now
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: not really, we have it recorded
<kvarley> Is it possible in LXDE to set it to automatically login a guest ?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: you'd have to look at the display manager for that
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: does lxde use lightdm?
<SuperEngineer> signing off ready for DW... have fun folks
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Found it
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I think it's part of LXDM
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<kvarley> We'll see, just resquashing
 * MartijnVdS watches the "BBC One HD cannot yet show programmes from your area" screen
<MartijnVdS> \o/ freesat..
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: weird, I tried a card a bit back and the BBC channels were fine
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Only issue I had was really slow channel change times
<MartijnVdS> doc o'clock!
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: it's only like that for local news
<kvarley> Ah, that explains it
<MartijnVdS> </doctor>
<popey> MartijnVdS: we see that message too â¹
<MartijnVdS> popey: BBC One HD @ Satellite?
<MartijnVdS> popey: or do they do it for terrestrial broadcasts as well?
<Myrtti> awww my gawd, the michael buble guy is on Voice?!?!
<MartijnVdS> the who?
<Myrtti> the video that's been making rotations in Facebook
<MartijnVdS> not on this side of the water \o/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I'll stick to Ãlafur Arnalds for the moment ;)
<Myrtti> awwww.
<mungbean> just discovered youtube-dl. awesome, does resume too.
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> wow.. defragging my homedir (btrfs) actually worked
<MartijnVdS> apparently defrag isn't recursive, so you have to use "find"
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS: what do you think of Van Persie's recent goal drought?
<MartijnVdS> GentileBen: I don't know, who or wat is Van Persie?
<GentileBen> He's your fellow Dutchman. Plays as a forward for Manchester United.
<GentileBen> Don't act like you don't know - you probably had a bet on him not to score against Romania.
<MartijnVdS> GentileBen: This is the only football I watch is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFc1vSyv9JM
<brobostigon> theoretically, where should hostapd log to?
<MartijnVdS> syslog, I guess
<MartijnVdS> are you running it on your machine? Or on a router?
<MartijnVdS> (in the last case, openwrt? logread!)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: debian testing, rpi model b.
<MartijnVdS> ah.. I'd say /var/log/ somewhere
<MartijnVdS>  probably syslog or messages
<MartijnVdS> maybe even auth.log if it's doing RADIUS
<brobostigon> nope, not using radius, wpa2-psk.
<MartijnVdS> ls -lart /var/log see which file was updated the latest, tail -f those
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have found bits in both daemon.log and syslog. another question, do you know of a monitor of some kind, for hostapd, i seem to be hitting a dead end.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you could run it in debug mode
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting idea.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you can add "daemon args" in /etc/default/hostapd or /etc/init.d/hostapd, add '-d' or '-dd'
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me have a look.
<brobostigon> daemon_opts= is there.
<brobostigon> in the former.
<MartijnVdS> OK, add "-d" (if that's still not verbose enough, make it "-dd" to that, in quotes is probably best
<MartijnVdS> then restart the daemon
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, let me try that, when i restart it, will everything disconnect?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
<MartijnVdS> but they'll reconnect immediately
<MartijnVdS> (as soon as the daemon is back up :))
<MartijnVdS> (which should be within a second or two)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, let me get better timing then, when no one is using it, alittle later,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what's the problem you're trying to solve?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i just trying to get more informarion about what it is doing, curiosity more than anything, not trying to solve any problem, it works perfectly.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: hostapd_cli
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that should give you access to the internals of hostald
<MartijnVdS> hostapd
<MartijnVdS> also, iw wlanX station dump
<MartijnVdS> you can set debug level in the _cli app!
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: does that give you enough infoz?
<brobostigon> interesting, i ran hostapd_cli, and it says it cannot connect to hostapd.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you might have to give it the socket path with -p
<MartijnVdS> it should be in /var/run somewhere
<MartijnVdS> (the directory where hostapd keeps its stuff)
<brobostigon> ah, ok,
<MartijnVdS> strange that it isn't in the package like that
<brobostigon> hostapd_cli -p /var/run/hostapd.pid
<brobostigon> same result.
<MartijnVdS> there should be a directory with a socket 'wlan0' in it
<MartijnVdS> or whatever your interface name is
<MartijnVdS> you should use hostald_cli -p that_directory
<brobostigon> wlan0 it is.
<MartijnVdS> it's probably mentioned in /etc/hostapd.conf
<MartijnVdS> as "ctrl_interrface"
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> "ctrl_interface"
<brobostigon> nope, nothing there.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: /var/run/hostapd?
<MartijnVdS> is there a directory like that/
<MartijnVdS> maybe in /tmp? or /var/tmp?
<MartijnVdS> or /run
<brobostigon> ok, umm, minute. what specifically am i looking for?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: a file (well, a socket) named 'wlan0'
<MartijnVdS> find /var -name wlan0
<MartijnVdS> should find it
<MartijnVdS> also.. you might have to be root to connect to it
<brobostigon> ok, that command gave no result.
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<MartijnVdS> nothing about the socket in the log files in /var/log either?
<MartijnVdS> or in the hostapd config in /etc/?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me have a closer look.
<brobostigon> no, no socket mentioned in hostapd.conf
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's under "ctrl_interface"
<brobostigon> no, no entry like that in hostapd.conf
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> can you pastebin what hostapd_cli tells you?
<MartijnVdS> (all of it :))
<MartijnVdS> I haven't used hostapd on Debian/Ubuntu.. only on OpenWRT
<brobostigon> i never get this right, can i paste it with pastebinit ?
<MartijnVdS> I tend to paste "manually" on the website
<MartijnVdS> that always works
<brobostigon> hmm, ok, that will take alittle longer. minute.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/ZBjViCLP
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and without the -p <pidfile> ?
<Azelphur> wow, my landlord just sunk to a whole new low
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://pastebin.com/1bsBACWT
<Azelphur> The family that live next to me, he called up child protective services and reported them, because the children were living in the flat with extreme health and safety issues, because he wasn't repairing anything, and they took their kids away
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or actually.. cat that pidfile, and then:
<MartijnVdS> lsof -p pid_here
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur: never mind... you can jump in, pull him back to the shore & kiss him
<MartijnVdS> it should list the socket if it has it open :)
<Azelphur> >.<
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: 8168 it spat out.
<SuperEngineer> [oops, my bad... - should have read give him the kiss of life]
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: then just do: hostapd_cli -p /directory_the_socket_is_in
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: lsof -p 8168
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: there must be a way to get that noted in a log somewhere
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (other than an IRC log)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, that spat alot of lines out, what am i looking for?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: what you mean?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: in the 5th column, look for "unix", then in in the last one, look at the path
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or pastebin it, and I'll have a look ;)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Well, you know _why_ the house is under-maintained.. that might make a difference in the case the parents have?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: definitely, they are going to have CPS come out again and I intend to have a few words.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: pipe it into pastebinit ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: try it :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://paste.debian.net/247946/
<MartijnVdS> I don't think it has the control socket
<MartijnVdS> add the ctrl_socket to the config file and restart the daemon :)
<MartijnVdS> ctrl_interface
<brobostigon> ctrl_interface=wlan0 ?
<MartijnVdS> no, ctrl_interface=/var/run/hostapd
<MartijnVdS> it's the path it will use to store the management socket
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: then i use that path, on -p for hostapd_cli ?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> I think it might default to /var/run/hostapd though
<MartijnVdS> but I'm not sure
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, let me get everyone off it, including myself, let me try it.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: they'll auto-reconnect
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: downtime is only a second
<MartijnVdS> you'll probably not notice it
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok.
<MartijnVdS> so a warning to everyone should be enough :)
<brobostigon> :)
<mac___> Hi all, i am new to ubuntu and am installing it on to a virtual box vm, i am having extreme difficulties installing guest additions on ubuntu and have followed many instructions from the internet.  I am using Virtual Box 4.2.10, Ubuntu 12.04.2 LTS and the host system is Windows 7,  I would appreciate any help in getting guest additions to work.
<MartijnVdS> mac___: which guide are you following, and what's the error?
<jacobw> Evening
<MartijnVdS> mac___: it should be as easy as:
<MartijnVdS> mac___: sudo apt-get install dkms
<MartijnVdS> sudo apt-get install virtualbox-guest-additions
<MartijnVdS> then maybe a reboot
<mac___> i've tried that with no luck, i have also attempted using the iso provided with the windows virtual box install
<MartijnVdS> mac___: what's the error?
<mac___> i dont always get an error, but when i have it has been when three checks are being done, something about the module and the kernel, wish i'd wrote it down
<MartijnVdS> mac___: can you run the commands now?
<mungbean> Safety mode has hidden comments for this video. Show hidden comments
<mac___> right found the error from a google search i did
<mungbean> how do i change this on youutube?
<MartijnVdS> Safety mode? In preferences, I guess
<mac___> it is no suitable module for running kernal found
<MartijnVdS> mac___: ah, but dkms should compile that..
<MartijnVdS> mac___: but you installed 12.04.2! which has a newer kernel!
<MartijnVdS> that might be the problem
<mac___> dkms was installed with fglrx when i installed that to fix my low graphics error problem
<MartijnVdS> that's unrelated.
<mac___> but then i have also installed it manually
<MartijnVdS> dkms is just the framework that compiles kernel modules :)
<MartijnVdS> mac___: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1081307/comments/4
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1081307 in virtualbox (Ubuntu Precise) "virtualbox-dkms 4.1.12-dfsg-2ubuntu0.2: virtualbox kernel module failed to build [merge request]" [High,Fix committed]
<MartijnVdS> mac___: someone fixed the Virtualbox packages in his PPA
<MartijnVdS> mac___: http://askubuntu.com/questions/265999/how-to-remove-kernel-lts-enablement-stack\
<MartijnVdS> mac___: that should give you enough info :)
<mac___> brill thanks, i'll give it ago
<mungbean> seems safety mode to turn off smut also disables all comments
<mac___> back again, i've had a look through that page you linked but i dont get what i need to do
<mac___> for example, how do i know if i have the enablement stacks nistalled
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i restarted hostapd, it restarted, i could connect again, but nothing went anywhere, the routing failed.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: strange
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: fixed now?
<MartijnVdS> mac___: you have them installed if you used a 12.04.2 ISO image
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i had to manually connect an athernet cable up to it, reapply the iptables rules.
<MartijnVdS> mac___: or if you used an earlier image and installed them yourself
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: strÃ¤nge
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, i agree.
<MartijnVdS> https://sites.google.com/site/openwrtraspi/ ;)
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/raspberry_pi
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so, i dont know why that failed to be honest.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the interface went down and back up.. did you bridge it to the LAN? Maybe that broke because it went down?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my brain is shattered. give me a hint, sorry.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the wlan0 interface probably disappeared and then re-appeared when hostapd reconfigured it
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, i would agree.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you have it bridged to the LAN (so wifi and wired are one "broadcast domain" = (think "network")) that might break the bridge
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://paste.debian.net/247960/
<MartijnVdS> you tend to know you bridged it -- it should be in /etc/network/interfaces :)
<MartijnVdS> ah no, you're NATting/routing
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> I don't know..
<MartijnVdS> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/debian-ubuntu-linux-setting-wireless-access-point/ :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me read about the dridging bit, i think the rest i have down pretty much.
<brobostigon> bridging*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you use bridging if you want the device to behave like an "access point" (meaning: wireless devices become part of the wired network)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: think of a bridge device as a virtual ethernet switch (traffic that comes in on devices that you add to the bridge goes out to other devices on the bridge)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, interesting idea, but would that solve the above issue?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: don't forget to set the IP *on the bridge interface*, or you'll lose connectivity
<MartijnVdS> well it'd remove the firewalling :)
<MartijnVdS> and the NAT
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: now that would help.
<MartijnVdS> wifi clients would share the DHCP server the RPi uses on its wired interface
<MartijnVdS> it'd all become one big network
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've been playing with bridges, VLANs etc, for a while now (yay openwrt)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://blog.vandestreek.net/2012/10/vms-and-vlans.html has some cool info, for instance
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so, if i setup the bridging, could i directly restart between one and the other.?
<MartijnVdS> what do you mean "directly restart"?
<MartijnVdS> I think setting up bridging might fail the first time you try it.. do it late at night when nobody is using the network :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i mean, revert from one to the other, or can they temporerily work side by side.
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> you'd have to add a bridge first, then move the eth0 config to the bridge (br0)
<MartijnVdS> then add eth0 to the bridge
<MartijnVdS> THEN completely restart networking
<brobostigon> ok, doesnt sound too bad,
<MartijnVdS> fix firewall rules to use br0 instead of eth0.. or just add wlan0 to the bridge as well (though the option in hostapd.conf)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: read /usr/share/doc/bridge-utils/README.Debian first
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also, will this affect ipv6, as i have aiccu and radvd etc setup.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes, you'll have to set those to use br0 as well
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: man bridge-utils-interfaces
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thank you.
<MartijnVdS> np :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> just sharing knowledge
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i will follow this up in the morning, when the old brian cells have rested,
<brobostigon> brain*
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hostapd_cli atleast works.
<mac_> once i followed the instructions i couldn't mount the guest additions iso
<mac_> and am now unable to boot up the vm because it runs a memtest everytime
<mungbean> wow dr who is lame nowdays, its all about sonic the screwdriver
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nah, it was just that ep that was bollocks. the last one, the first in the new series was good.
<brobostigon> mungbean:  nah, it was just that ep that was bollocks. the last one, the first in the new series was good.
<brobostigon> sorry MartijnVdS
<mungbean> my memory onlt lasts a week
<brobostigon> oh dear. :(
<mungbean> over reliance on sonic in general makes it all silly
<mungbean> massive mos eisley ripoff too this week
<mungbean> oh dear theyre all joining in some cheesy song
<brobostigon> sorry, for my language there, calling one single dr who ep bollocks isnt nice.
<mungbean> one of worst eps in the current era tho
 * shel3over jmp 
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-07
<MartijnVdS> DespondentPotato: can you please just keep ONE nick?
<SuperEngineer> +1
<MartijnVdS> morning SuperEngineer
 * MartijnVdS is sad
<SuperEngineer> hi MartijnVdS, things good?
<SuperEngineer> oh
<MartijnVdS> According to the data sheet, the switch chip in my router supports "jumbo frames", which I would need to get larger PPPoE packets (with MTU 1500 packets inside)
<MartijnVdS> but I'm too scared to update the constant in the kernel and re-flash :)
<MartijnVdS> if the ethernet ports don't work anymore I'd have to open it up and solder in a serial header
<MartijnVdS> and that's too much effort :)
 * SuperEngineer knows that feeling well... especially on a Sunday ;)
<MartijnVdS> also, apparently, the "CPU port" might not support the MTU
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: playing with OpenWRT is cool though :)
<SuperMatt> anyone good with postfix?
<SuperEngineer> that looks like "stop right there, go no futher" o me
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: what do you want to know/do?
<SuperMatt> http://askubuntu.com/questions/278783/
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I'll stick to filing a bug then :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt, SuperEngineer: your names! they confuse!
<SuperMatt> soz
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: You configured Postfix to do greylisting, and Thunderbird to connect to that Postfix?
<SuperMatt> yup
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Or did you configure TBird to connect to Postfix which connects to the internet and finds a server with greylisting?
<SuperMatt> I tried to send an email from myself to myself
<SuperMatt> I have greylisting enabled
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: the point of greylisting is that it sends a "temporary failure" message first.. so thunderbird is hitting the greylist :)
<MartijnVdS> you only want greylisting on _incoming_ smtp-servers, not outgoing
<SuperMatt> what if you're using the same server for both?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: then you tell postfix to enable to "Submission" port, and use that in thunderbird
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: and don't enable greylisting on that port
<MartijnVdS> but DO enable auth
<MartijnVdS> (and I'm not sure, but maybe SSL as well)
<SuperMatt> yuh, I have auth enabled
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: submission is a different port.. submission	587/tcp				# Submission [RFC4409]
<MartijnVdS> 587
<SuperMatt> I think I understand now
<MartijnVdS> it's also a great way around ISP's "port 25" blocks :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: there are lots of Postfix docs about the "submission"p ort
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> dang, now I'm getting auth rejected on 587 D:
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I think you have to configure it on a per-port basis
<SuperMatt> ah, I think I've got it
<SuperMatt> how silly of me, I forgot to enter my username and password into thunderbird >.<
<dwatkins> Thunderbirds are go!
<SuperMatt> ok, now is there a way to flush what servers have been greylisted?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you should have configured a greylist database
<SuperMatt> I know what I'll do, I'll just use one of my other domains to test :D
<SuperMatt> actually, nm
<SuperMatt> I think I'm OK now
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<SuperEngineer> hmmmm... confused!  just checked synaptic - my linux headers seem out of step with linux image http://imagebin.org/253090
<G|Linuxusermriad> Dude I bought a Yeelong Lemote notebook last night at 1am off ebay 50%off .. I'm thinking I'll get 'all the signatures' and milk it for all it's worth .. should arrive May-  1st-week.
<penguin42>  'yeelong lemote' ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no-brand Chinese knockoff
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> I notice there are a couple of no-brand highres tablets
<SuperEngineer> complete with built in key logger no doubt
<penguin42> shrug, not sure they're all that bad
<SuperEngineer> [just joking]
<G|Linuxusermriad> penguin42: I had somewhat of an ethical orghasm when I saw the price !!
<MartijnVdS> G|Linuxusermriad: but.. keylogger?
<G|Linuxusermriad> there's no keylogger, you derisor !
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> Usually they cost about Â£375 to get them to the uk using Taobao.com [ http://loogson.taobao.com/ ] but beckii showed me the system .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFheq8ic1H8
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> .. that's if they get through customs which can take over a month ..
<penguin42> aren't there any amazon/ebay UK people who've already done that hard work
<mungbean> and who would u return it to?
<mungbean> zero post sale support
<mungbean> yeelong lemote sounsd like an rms special
<penguin42> yeh I'm ok with doing that for cheap converters/leads/etc on the basis you haven't lost much
<penguin42> although the 3-4 ship from HK annoys me
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> It's not about being a customer .. it's about Libre citizenship .. I'm part of the noosphere when it arrives.
<mungbean> ?
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> which part ?
<penguin42> most of it
<mungbean> someone spike ur drink?
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> nope.
 * penguin42 holds up some flippers - how many do you see?
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> well the rght one is partly covered , but two , defo two.
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> best thing is that I get an entry into the h-node hall of fame as my " 8089b " is not entered yet, but the " YeeLoong 8101B " is :: | http://h-node.org/notebooks/view/en/89/YeeLoong-8101B
<penguin42> oh, one of the mips jobbies
<mungbean> buying stuff online is so difficult nowadays, its hard to know whats fake and genuine. trying to get new airbrush.
<penguin42> what are you going to run, Debian/mips ?
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> me ?
<mungbean> people even reuse model numbers
<penguin42> G|Linuxusrmyriad: OK, I thought you were just buying a cheap laptop - that would be insane - but buying one of the open mips ones is a little less insane
<mungbean> :-|
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> penguin42: There aren't many posts on it .. but AFAs Debian .. here's one .. https://mulenmar.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/yeeloong-8089b-some-performance-tweaks/
<penguin42> G|Linuxusrmyriad: Ouch that's pretty low spec
 * SuperEngineer guesses it gets slowed down by the perpetual keylooger!  :D
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> The whole thing is like that rope bridge walk in Indiana Jones  ... surprised it still endorsed by the China LUG !
<penguin42>  <breakfast>
<mungbean> <lunch>
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> There's an interesting Last post on ::: http://goo.gl/xmSDO :: " It sounds like you'd need to use a 64-bit version of MSVC so it doesn't run out of address space and crash hard, then ? "
<SuperEngineer> <cream tea>
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> <Coco & shortbread>
<SuperEngineer> G|Linuxusrmyriad: hang on! nobody's done <cheese & biscuits> yet!
 * SuperEngineer watches The Simpsons
<shauno> reads like that's solving the wrong problem.  if it grows forever until you run out of ram, giving it more ram isn't a solution
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> SuperEngineer: It was chronological, I was on night-cap, or else I would've.
<Darael> You think model-number reuse for similar products is a problem - try one model number that appears to refer to at least seven *entirely different* products.
 * brobostigon watches the simpsons also.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: ;)
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> shauno: So it's a snow-ball effect ?
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: :)
<Darael> Speaking of which, I encountered an interesting thing recently:  A mobo where a short had actually burned through it, but somehow the components hadn't been fried.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: ESD?
<shauno> they make it sound like it's growing forever.  all 32 vs 64bit is going to change is the particular message it dies with
<shauno> either it eats 1GB physical, 3GB swap, and then dies because it's hit the 32bit barrier.  or it eats 1GB physical, all your swap, and then dies because it hit the real barrier
<Darael> Laptop motherboard, some git had accidentally shorted the negative pin on the DC jack to one of the positives.  It was working well after the burning-plastic-smell-and-no-longer-charged, up until it ran out of battery.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: HP?
<MartijnVdS> My old HP had that..
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Nah.  Some no-name outfit.
<MartijnVdS> it would run fine off batteries, but couldn't charge them
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> shauno: I think that was my post .. I was trying to troll in '09 .. Can you see " Mednafen " other posts ?
<Darael> The machine in question had that problem once, because the DC jack was actually broken.  It was out of warranty, so it was taken to a chap who soldered on a new jack.  But he caused the aforementioned short and eventually the mobo burned right through.
<SuperEngineer> talking of ESD... have been asked to aquire a pair of ,conductive. safety boots!  - there's nothing like turning yourself into an earthing rod!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Just get a Faraday cage suit :)
<MartijnVdS> (rubber-lined on the inside)
<shauno> when they put metal studs in the seat of your chair, you'll wish you'd have taken the boots
 * SuperEngineer starts eating rubber
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: sure they may TASTE like banana or strawberry.. but they're not for eating!
<Darael> SuperEngineer: There are limits to "you are what you eat"...
<SuperEngineer> [the conductive boots are for a new [major] client... apparently blowing up a whole petrol station can be injurious to one's health
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: health & safety gone mad!
<SuperEngineer> therefore no static discharge is preferred... but I still prefer the eat rubber methd!
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  /me composes email to boss titled "health & safety gone mad!"
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: "I read in the Daily Mail that..."
<SuperEngineer> ...but holds back from copy/pasting this IRC into it :D
<shauno> you consider this less authorative than the daily mail?
 * SuperEngineer read the daily mail once - took 3 weeks to stop laughing
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yeh I think a lot of safety boots have some dischargey thing in
<SuperEngineer> ...trouble is - people kept on saying it's meant to a joke - it's meant to be a newspaper
 * penguin42 likes steel toe cap boots - they let you wiggle your toes
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> Man, I've got Evapoated Milk and a stack of Columbian Coffee .. . .. is this a good combination ?
<Darael> Is it time to mention kill-or-cure?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle, yeah?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hell yeh
<SuperEngineer> ...& they your toes get cut off by the steel when it gets impacted! .. but don't let me worry you
<SuperEngineer> ...use composite toe caps
<MartijnVdS> ooh.. BTC = â¬119.99
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Yeh but at least they get cut off cleanly!
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no gangrene to worry about 8-)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: :D
 * penguin42 doesn't do any heavy stuff any more; but I still wear them - my first were a pair of Doc's
 * SuperEngineer wonders if safety boots really stop cars running you over when working on forecourt computer kit :)
<popey> afternoon
<MartijnVdS> \o popester
<SuperMatt> hullo hullo
<SuperEngineer> o?
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> leaves.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No, but if they nearly run you over you can put a much bigger dent in them
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: [and get annoyed - saying " oi! you damaged my boots!]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: is this the pumps, sineage or some other monitoring stuff?
 * SuperEngineer recalls having done what penguin42 suggests once or twice in a previous incarnation ;)
<SuperEngineer> ..so my email to boss goes... "following intense discussion, I will wear composite toe-capped boots whilst eating rubber - and kick any car that nears to me!"
<SuperEngineer> that should do it!
<SuperEngineer> *comes near to...
<penguin42> hehe
 * popey suffers from bug 1162093
<lubotu3> bug 1162093 in Unity "Unity broken after latest update; compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in getCompPluginVTable20090315_unityshell()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1162093
<penguin42> popey: What's the character at the end of your lp name?
<popey> ã <- that
<penguin42> hmm, my web browser wasn't rendering that but my irc is
<SuperMatt> mine's other way around
<SuperEngineer> popey: did you get to try "Amnesia - The Dark Descent"?
<popey> not yet
<mungbean> im confused, what decent sync does tomboy offer now?
<popey> ssh, file, snowy
<popey> same as it always did
<mungbean> http://lists.beatniksoftware.com/pipermail/tomboy-list-beatniksoftware.com/2013-April/003004.html
<mungbean> looks like they are discussing still
<mungbean> It would seem possible that if we started a branch for the development of
<mungbean> GDrive and or Dropbox and piled into it, both could be implemented within a
<mungbean> few weeks.
<ali1234> is skype broken on 12.10 too?
<SuperEngineer> popey: recommend it! best played as suggested - darkened room + headphones [though I would recommend keeping a spare brain in the fridge!]
<ali1234> !info qtwebkit
<lubotu3> Package qtwebkit does not exist in quantal
<ali1234> wat
<popey> !info libqtwebkit4
<lubotu3> libqtwebkit4 (source: qtwebkit-source): Web content engine library for Qt. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.1-4ubuntu1 (quantal), package size 5629 kB, installed size 23785 kB
<ali1234> why is it 2.2.1?
<popey> why not?
<popey> thats whats in quantal
<ali1234> well shouldn't it be 4.something?
<popey> no, separate component
<ali1234> libqt4-webkit (1 4:4.7.0~beta1)
<popey> built against 4 hence the name being libqtwebkit4 AIUI
<ali1234> i also have qtwebkit 2:5.0-1ubuntu29
<popey> from a ppa perhaps?
<ali1234> probably
<popey> there was a package rename happen to allow 4 and 5 to be co-installed
<ali1234> we need a proper release between now and the release of ubuntu-touch in which you can develop apps without needing ppas
<ali1234> because at the moment it's a mess
<mungbean> like a touch devs spin?
<ali1234> no not like a spin
<popey> a proper release of what?
<popey> ubuntu or the qml bits?
<ali1234> a proper release of ubuntu
<popey> whats wrong with 13.04?
<ali1234> which includes the QML bits required to develop mobile apps
<ali1234> and which remain stable for 6 months
<SuperMatt> how can I make apt think a package isn't installed?
<ali1234> well, last time i checked, 13.04 still requires a ppa?
<Darael> SuperMatt: Uninstall it?
<popey> no
<popey> not anymore
<ali1234> and that ppa is still highly unstable and quite likely to mess up your system
<SuperMatt> well.. that's a problem because it won't uninstall
<popey> SuperMatt: what package?
<SuperMatt> spotify
<ali1234> i see
<popey> what happens when you try to?
<SuperMatt> basically I trashed my /opt, forgetting spotify was installed in there
<popey> you plum
<SuperMatt> and now my packages are in an inconsistant state
<popey> reinstall it
<popey> sudo apt-get install --reinstall spotify
<popey> then uninstall it
<SuperMatt> trying to, that's not working either
<popey> what happens/
<SuperMatt> it seems there are pre-removal scripts which are not working because I trashed the data :(
<popey> even with reinstall?
<popey> pastebin it
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5686119/
<popey> easy to fix...
<popey> just bin /var/lib/dpkg/info/spotify-client.prerm
<popey> or edit it and comment out the single line in it
<popey> prefarbly the latter
<SuperMatt> that's it!
<SuperMatt> thanks
<ali1234> there's a good tric for that actually
<ali1234> you can query the package database for a list of packages that installed files in a directory and then reinstall them
<ali1234> i did this when i accidentally deleted /usr/bin
<SuperMatt> ouchies!
<SuperMatt> at least you didn't remove /usr/sbin, or dpkg and apt would have faaaailed
<ali1234> oh they did
<ali1234> i had to boot live cd, copy a few missing binaries, and then chroot
<SuperMatt> dang!
<SuperMatt> I'm always glad I can do this stuff in Linux though
<SuperMatt> you'd have to go for a complete reinstall in Windows
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/191942/deleted-all-the-files-in-usr-bin-typing-in-rm-rf
<penguin42> yeh you can dig really deep holes on Linux - and climb out of them
<ali1234> this is totally why i stopped using windows
<ali1234> too many reinstalls
<ali1234> press wrong button, receive smoke
<SuperMatt> I reinstall Ubuntu about once a year
<SuperMatt> normally when I upgrade something
<ali1234> i reinstall it every 6 months
<ali1234> i was reinstalling windows every 2 weeks
<SuperMatt> ouch
<penguin42> only reinstalls if I change distro or change main disk
<MartijnVdS> same here.. or if the installation is messed up somehow
<MartijnVdS> which can happen.. after years of running/upgrading/messing
<penguin42> it's got to get pretty messed up for me to do that :-)
 * SuperEngineer celebrates... what the firm's IT dept has failed to resolve in 2 weeks - I just resolved in 1/2 hour
 * SuperEngineer 1 -It dept. 0
<brobostigon> ok, any ideas, my machine is getting an ipv6 global addr from radvd, on the router ipv6 forwarding is set in sysctl, and said router can ping an outside ipv6 addr, however said client machine connected to it cant. any ideas.
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: yeah - go have a beer - I'll look into it when you're not at work and can't see what I'm doing ;)
<brobostigon> SuperEngineer: haha,
 * SuperEngineer takes to bathroom... gotta wash all that filthy Windows 7 from self - it,s making me all itchy
<SuperEngineer> ...if *only* I was as good at Linux :(
<SuperEngineer> ...but gettin there
<brobostigon> :)
<Darael> brobostigon: check ip -6 route; see if it's actually picked up the route and not just the address.  Also check that IPv6 forwarding is enabled on the router - I seem to recall it's dropped in iptables by default.
<brobostigon> Darael: ip -6 route, on the client?
<Darael> brobostigon: Yup.  Just check that it *has* a route via the router.
<brobostigon> Darael: ok.
<brobostigon> Darael: ok, there we go, yes, missing.
<Darael> brobostigon: Well, there are two options:  The quick fix and the reliable fix.
<brobostigon> Darael: lets have both, and i will make notes.
<diddledan> quick fix, quick fix!
<diddledan> :-p
<Darael> brobostigon: ip -6 route add default via $routeraddress (or something very close to that; check man ip just in case)
<brobostigon> Darael: on the client?
<Darael> brobostigon: But for a faster one, there's probably something missing in the router's radvd.conf.
<Darael> brobostigon: Yup.
<Darael> s/faster/more permanent/
<brobostigon> Darael: lets fix radvd, yes.
<Darael> I don't even know what happened with that typo
<Darael> brobostigon: I'm sorry, I abandoned thee, didn't I?!
<brobostigon> Darael: nah, i worked it out, added the ip mentioned in radvd.conf to the actual device it referred to, fixed it.
<Darael> brobostigon: Excellent.  Glad to hear it's working now.
<brobostigon> Darael: not the ip, but the referring ip, from the start of its subnet.
<Darael> brobostigon: Yes, indeed.
<brobostigon> Darael: then restarted radvd, and it worked. the forwarding was set correctly, also.
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<mgdm> o/
<bigcalm> Wot ho mgdm
<mgdm> how goes it?
<bigcalm> Splendidly thanks. Is it the weekend yet?
<mgdm> bigcalm: sadly it is almost over
<bigcalm> Boo
<gebbione> hi, whats the best application to manage an android mobile from ubuntu
<gebbione> like music and so on
<jacobw> gebbione: Rhythmbox or Banshee
<gebbione> rhythmbox just crashes for me
<gebbione> banshee i dont see the device
<mungbean> is it regular usb device or mtp?
<mungbean> i.e. can nautilus see it?
<gebbione> i see the samsung android device but right now i cannot mount it
<gebbione> clicking on it does not open it
<gebbione> it is a samsung s3
<DJones> gebbione: Try installing Airdroid on the android device & connect via a web browser
<jacobw> gebbione: I have the same experience with Rhythmbox
<SuperEngineer> gotta go - bye bye folks
<gebbione> after installing airdroid for some reason my usb worked and banshee is fine
<zleap> Hi tombrough
 * Laney decides he can get a tax refund
<Laney> \o/
<mgdm> isn't it HMRC that usually make that decision for you? :)
<Laney> that's what they want you to think
<bigcalm> Just watched last week's Dr Who, was quite fun
<mungbean> bigcalm: yesterdays ?
<mungbean> yesterdays was worst one ever
<bigcalm> mungbean: no, last week's
<bigcalm> We've been busy
<bigcalm> o.O
#ubuntu-uk 2014-03-31
<mapps> looks like il be staying overnight after the spurs game
<mapps> have to remember self control..24hr casino O_o
<daftykins> hehehe
<mapps> cant see any other way basically
<mapps> white hart lane -> euston 40mins tube ...and then what if any delays or anything..game finishes 10pm last train 1050
<mapps> itd be VERY close..time to get out the stadium etc
<mapps> thought about getting a taxi BUT again i dont know how bad traffic will be says 25mins..but if i miss my train paid for a ticket for nothing;/
<mapps> my friend said he stayed in some hote for 29quid..but i cant see anything that cheap!!
<daftykins> pesky booking prices :<
<mapps> yea its like if i could just TRY and go from the stadium to euston AND IF i make it get a ticket thatd be fine
<mapps> but it be like 80+
<mapps> if i book in advance 37 quid
<daftykins> find a park bench ;)
<mapps> last walking dead tonight!
<mapps> hm i suck at anything design related
<mapps> just always feels like a stuggle:)
<mapps> struggle
<mapps> gee
<mapps> z
<dwatkins> I just put links on the page, functional html
<mapps> i love all the scam spam
<mapps> natwest credit card account password reset -- dont have a natwest ac..but anyway who would be tricked..hover ove the link
<mapps> http://www.petermacfarlane.info/n.html
<mapps> lol
<dwatkins> yeah, it surprises me they still bother, considering most spam filters will stop that sort of thing
<mapps> yep
<mapps> gmail's brilliant
<mapps> but in all honesty even without gmail..hover over the link..copy it whatever its easy to defeat/avoid
<mapps> .petermacfarlane.info ropey looking website..but cant tell if its just a bogus website or thats a real firm with a crap site
<dwatkins> yep, but some people don't know to do that
<dwatkins> I got my dad to pipe all his mail through gmail and forward it to his ISP account, so gmail filters out the spam
<mapps> my friend always claims he wants to learn more yada yada yada
<mapps> so i instaled xubuntu on his real old machine..and got a new gfx card for it like a p3 maybe or p4 whatever
<mapps> and he hasnt touched it in a year
<dwatkins> nice
<mapps> kinda irritating
<dwatkins> I looked at my neighbor's PC, it was riddled with malware. I reset Chrome, and it was fine.
<mapps> like when im telling him something say 'uhh check your router config' if i say go to 127.0.0.1 and laugh he doesnt get it
<dwatkins> I don't get the joke
<mapps> and yea its not madly funny
<mapps> but still
<daftykins> you know that one that online banking always says to install? Trusteer Rapport - i've seen people's machines taken over *because* of using that before ;x
<mapps> well dwatkins go to 127.0.0.1 to get to your router config
<mapps> i was more mocking him i guess
<dwatkins> daftykins: that's crazy
<dwatkins> oh right, sorry
<mapps> as he doesnt realise 127.0.0.1=localhost
<mapps> :P
<dwatkins> got confused between 127.0.0.1 and 192.168.0.1
<mapps> i could tell him to try it for google if dns was down and he'd believe me
<mapps> lol
<dwatkins> I often run a local webserver.
<mapps> when he had problems accessing websites he phoned me and has no idea why..said to him ..just try google dns :)
<dwatkins> Then again, I also often see customers who have added lines to /etc/hosts to get around licensing stuff
<mapps> =]
<dwatkins> there's also opendns, it does family-safe filtering
<mapps> yea
<mapps> ive got bind installed on my machine
<mapps> not configured it properly
<mapps> i have so many things im doing/half doing:)
<dwatkins> I use dnsmasq
<mapps> whats that do
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> userdirs arent working on my apache
<dwatkins> it does dns and dhcp on my router
<mapps> and cant access it externally
<mapps> http://frogs.zapto.org
<mapps> isnt working is it?
<dwatkins> no response
<mapps> but https is
<mapps> argh
<mapps> stupid zentayl done this
<dwatkins> changed the port fowarding?
<mapps> nope
<mapps> since i installed zentyal then tried to remove it all went wrong
<mapps> oh my
<mapps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo9W-5MbK00
<mapps> 19:12
<mapps> the best song ever ..brings back fond memories (only 3ys ago ok)
<daftykins> dwatkins: adding things to hosts file to avoid licensing? as in they're blocking stuff phoning home?
<mapps> hmm bit confused by bind
<mapps> either of you familiar with it?
<dwatkins> daftykins: yep
<daftykins> i configured some zone files in uni time
<daftykins> but i think i got stuff wrong
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> i think you might have bitten off more than you can chew if you're giving that a whirl at home D:
<mapps> heh
<neuro> ha
<mapps> i was just messing with it daftykins
<mapps> setting up alocal caching server
<mapps> no need really lol
<mapps> argh pesky bt infinity ads..mocking me
<mapps> i cant get it..but the house i moved from 3 years ago (1/2 mile away CAN NOW)
<mapps> when i was there most i could get was this rubbish 6mbit
<mapps> hola
<MooDoo> morning mapps sorry miles away then
<bashrc> morning
<mapps> moning
<jussi> anyone know which tz Stuart Langridge resides in?
<nigelb> jussi: usually, UK, I believe.
<jussi> hrm, I wonder where he is then :/
<ali1234> wow, making the applications scope the default? really? why did this take so long?
<jussi> ali1234: link?
<ali1234> omgubuntu.co.uk
<ali1234> i'm reminded of that old quote... to paraphrase: you can always count on ubuntu to do the right thing, after trying everything else.
<MartijnVdS> I still don't understand what the difference between a lens and a scope is.
<ali1234> a scope is a group of lenses
<ali1234> it might be the other way around
<ali1234> but say you have a "news" scope
<MartijnVdS> I removed a ton of scopes earlier
<MartijnVdS> Never use the dash anyway, other than the "run dialog" bit of it (Alt+F2)
<ali1234> it will search the bbc news lens, the cnn lens, etc
<MartijnVdS> but I have a web browser open.. if I want news I'll use that!
<ali1234> you don't need to tell me, i've been saying that since unity was released
<ali1234> well, since they added scopes to it
<diplo> Morning all
<ali1234> the home scope is the worst though, because it searches everything
<ali1234> it is entirely possible to have more lenses than there is room for icons on the dash
<ali1234> which makes the home scope utterly useless since it just blasts you with one of everything
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Bunsen Burner Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> eeeep!
<MartijnVdS> meeep?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jussi> Bunsen Burner Day....
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> jussi: I think JamesTait just makes these up as he goes along, who would you trust near a bunsen burner on a Monday!
<jussi> davmor2: maybe thats the point of it... :P
 * jussi lights a fire under JamesTait
<foobarry> blue flame or yellow flame?
 * JamesTait is already on a fast boil this morning.
<foobarry> bunsen burners were the first amazing thing i learned in secondary school
<jussi> the most fun I had in secondary school science class went either to "Dirty harry" or sodium in puddles on a wet day.... :D
<jussi> oh, and Monday morning funnies for you all... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc
<MartijnVdS> jussi: your fwiend?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: Do you find somefing funny when I say my fwiends name....... Biggus Dickus!?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> yo
<DJones> Who'd have thought chosing a new car would be so difficult
<popey> blue one!
<DJones> Heh, colour isn't high up the list of requirement, as long as its not white
<foobarry> colour has influence over likelihood of being in a crash
<foobarry> why do so many people choose tarmac grey?
<DJones> This is tempting http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201403262816840/sort/default/usedcars/model/octavia/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/postcode/wa76ls/quicksearch/true/page/3/make/skoda/radius/20?logcode=p
<foobarry> and then don't turn on their lights in the rain and drive fast?
<DJones> foobarry: Thats perhaps why so many cars now seem to have automatic lights
<foobarry> mercedes don't even come with indicators :(
<DJones> I thought that was BMW's
<DJones> or Range Rovers
<popey> i haven't had to turn on my lights for 13 years
<foobarry> bmw/audi/ercedes
<directhex> foobarry, wrong. all mercedes come with indicators in the base spec. but the Â£3000 optional enhancement pack removes them. and they've never sold a merc without all the overpriced addons
<foobarry> the only time i need to turn my lights on is after a service.
<DJones> All I want is an EState car, cruise control, decent caravan towing ability, good normal fuel consumption and normal tax bracket, ended up with about 8 different options
<foobarry> i have that
<foobarry> focus estate tdci
<foobarry> i never used the cruise control, was too scared
<bigcalm> DJones: 407 sw
<bigcalm> My wife doesn't let me use the cruise control, so I use the speed limiter instead
<DJones> foobarry: Been warned off the focus by a local mechanic
<foobarry> any reason?
<DJones> foobarry: Repair costs, said some of the Fords (c-max, mondeo, focus) can cost Â£1,000 to have a clutch replaced
<DJones> bigcalm: Thats one I'm thinking about, how do you find it
<bigcalm> DJones: I've had 2 x 406 and 1 x 407. Love them all
<bigcalm> DJones: davmor2 also has a 407 sw
<bigcalm> DJones: it can get expensive if you get lots of electrical optional extras and some go wrong
<DJones> bigcalm: When I was getting my last car I tried a 407 SW and there was something that didn't feel right, but I'm thinking about having another go with one
<bigcalm> Nice and quiet, smooth ride, good acceleration, good fuel consumption
<bigcalm> Tyers are expensive though as they are classed as "sports"
<DJones> bigcalm: Something like this may be an option http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201403272848055/sort/default/usedcars/make/peugeot/price-from/4500/body-type/estate/model/407/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/price-to/9500/page/1/radius/25/postcode/wa76ls?logcode=p
<DJones> TYres won't be a problem working at a tyre fitters & getting free tyres
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> DJones: damn you :P
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm, DJones: I do indeed and I've had a 406 and a 306 sw they are so comfortable on long and short hauls :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: ha mine weren't
<DJones> davmor2: bigcalm Thanks for the recommendations anyway, much prefer that to anonymous reviews on wesbites
<davmor2> DJones: there are 3 common faults on the 407, the joint on the front wheels due to turning and powering (just wear and tear they just need replacing), the cambelt if you are buying a second hand one just get it replaced it's way way way cheaper, rear wiper arm can seize on earlier models due to steel pin in an aluminium housing
<davmor2> 407 sw that is
<bigcalm> !info ruby
<lubotu3> ruby (source: ruby-defaults): Interpreter of object-oriented scripting language Ruby (default version). In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.9.3 (saucy), package size 4 kB, installed size 31 kB
<bigcalm> How does one find out what version a package will be in 14.04?
<davmor2> bigcalm: surely this is all you need to know about ruby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qObzgUfCl28
<davmor2> bigcalm: dpkg -l | grep <package_name>, apt-cache policy <package_name>
<bigcalm> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/ruby
<bigcalm> I googled
<davmor2> bigcalm: Open software-center and type in the name
<davmor2> bigcalm: :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: out of interest why didn't you do that before  asking here :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: I wondered if there was a way of getting lubotu3 to inform me
<DJones> davmor2: Cheers
<directhex> popey, do you know what the likelihood of that google-chrome/lightdm guest session bug being fixed for 14.04 final?
<davmor2> DJones: by the way as a tip I aways give change the cambelt, you don't know how the previous driver drove but you can guarantee it wasn't the same as in the test environment that sets the 120,000 miles :)  It's pretty cheap to get done and can save you a fortune
<popey> directhex: higher if someone provides a patch.
<directhex> i couldn't get it to work, but i don't understand apparmour
<popey> oh â¹
<DJones> davmor2: Thats true
<directhex> popey, just substituting paths didn't seem to do it, must be more to it
<bigcalm> I need to book my car in for a replacement front nearside ball joint and front tyers
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<directhex> i'm in a bloody costa because car is in for service/mot
<popey> directhex: were there more apparmor denies in dmesg?
<popey> even after adding the additional paths
<shauno> "bloody costa" sounds like a tarantino scene :/
<directhex> popey, i'd need to check, the box i was working on is in cambridge so it'll have to wait until tomorrow
<popey> I'll test here a bit later when I have some time.
<directhex> sorry. not many test NUCs here in costa
<directhex> i also need to test daniels' lowdpi patch to fix OMGCRAZYHUGE gnome shell on our projector
<directhex> xrandr thinks the projector is 16mmx9mm, so detects it as around 3600DPI, so shell does crazy UI scaling
<directhex> "Cats are awesome áµá´¥áµ" - that's clearly an otter, not a cat
<davmor2> DJones: See bigcalm's statement about ball joint for proof of my earlier statement :D
<shauno> how big does a gnome have to be before it's just a statue?
<directhex> shauno, depends on whether it has a fishing rod and pointy hat
<shauno> http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/24000/Fishing-Statue-of-Liberty--24259.jpg  :)
<bigcalm> Cute :)
<shauno> sorry, this is how I procrastinate :/  I'll be quiet
<jussi> directhex: how dare you challenge my cat!
<directhex> otter.
<directhex> it's a cute otter!
<davmor2> directhex: you are clearly wrong it's a teddy bear
<directhex> it's clearly shellington sea otter, from the octonauts
<jussi> no. its a cat.
<jussi> C-A-T
<jussi> cat
<davmor2> jussi: Teddy Bear
<jussi> pffft
<davmor2> T-E-D-D-Y B-E-A-R
<davmor2> teddy bear
<jussi> anyway, anyone seen aquarius recently?
<bigcalm> He's been hiding in Brum I think
<davmor2> jussi: He moved to brum and has been living in a bar by the sound of it :)
<jussi> davmor2: didnt he recently get a job?
<davmor2> jussi: there have been some interesting tweets from him
<davmor2> jussi: no idea he was working for himself
<bigcalm> My SGS3 finally got updated to Android 4.3. Everything is ever so slightly different. Most strange
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: such strange. very difference.
<bigcalm> Meme much argh
<directhex> i lol'd
<davmor2> bigcalm: in kitkat they got rid of SMS it's all in hangouts you think 4.3 is different :P
<bigcalm> Joy
<jussi> davmor2: I got lazy and just called him :)
<popey> so what if you don't use gapps?
<davmor2> bigcalm: though that is on the nexus 5
<popey> can you no longer to sms?
<bigcalm> So my t-mobile contract is up in May. What should my next Android handset be?
<MartijnVdS> popey: you can still SMS
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's all in the Hangouts app
<jussi> popey: there is still the option to use the old app
<MartijnVdS> together with Google's hangoutchat stuff
<jussi> I still do
<popey> ahh
<MartijnVdS> jussi: I don't have that option on Nexus 5 I think
<davmor2> popey: I think you can manually re-enable sms via a hidden menu somewhere
<jussi> MartijnVdS: oh right?  on my samsung you get to choose...
<jussi> I keep resisting going to the hangouts appt
<MartijnVdS> Hangouts is so amazign though
<MartijnVdS> if only more people used it :|
<jussi> MartijnVdS: Ive not seen any advantages yet
<BigRedS__> I distrust it. It looks like google want to break both XMMP and SMS to no particular end
<davmor2> MartijnVdS, popey: https://support.google.com/hangouts/answer/3441321?hl=en-GB
<MartijnVdS> If you have the Hangouts app on Android 4.0 and higher, you can send and receive text messages (SMS and MMS), photos and videos. Remember, your text message rates through your mobile operator still apply.
<MartijnVdS> You can send and receive text and multimedia messages in the Hangouts app without being signed in. But if you want to send Hangouts messages or make video calls, you'll need to sign in to a Google account.
<MartijnVdS> blah, why did it do that?
<BigRedS__> haha
<jussi> :D
<MartijnVdS> anyway, I *like* the hangouts app for SMS+Hangouts, I don't want to get rid of it :)
<BigRedS__> weirdo
 * jussi got a free phone today :)
<dwatkins> My Clark Kent glasses have arrived.
<bigcalm> Jealous
<bigcalm> That said, my glasses are rimless. I'd be confused by the black lines
<dwatkins> They're effectively just UV filters.
<dwatkins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0063CZWRU/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> you wear them for fun?
<foobarry> no enlargement/focusing going on?
<dwatkins> yes; no
<jussi> I cannot imagine why people would wear glasses for fun....
<bigcalm> Me either
<dwatkins> well, actually I got them so I can have the fan on my desk switched on without my eyes drying out
<bigcalm> Though I do like wearing mine and seeing people wear glasses.
<bigcalm> But unless they are doing a corrective operation, I feel like they are mocking those who _need_ glasses
<dwatkins> hmm, that had not occurred to me
<dwatkins> then again, I used to need glasses
<bigcalm> If you have a need, then that's cool :)
<awilkins> I wear a pair of +1D reading glasses in a preventative capacity sometimes
<dwatkins> I think I'm 2.5 diopters short-sighted
<dwatkins> at least I was once
<foobarry> i have no idea
<awilkins> I get a little shortsighted if I read close-to for long periods ; +1 lenses move that focal point to infinity which has the same effect as a long walk outside but I can keep working...
<awilkins> Plus I think the fact that it acts like a pair of blinders (can't focus on the periphery and the working field simultaneously anymore) means I focus better
<dwatkins> yeah, I do get easily distracted by things in my peripheral vision
<dwatkins> I would move to a window seat if there was one, as then I wouldn't have people walking past all the time
<jussi> I cant see things in the distance - I love having 30day contact lenses
<DJones> I've just got new glasses, big change in the prescription this time and going from distance to reading range is driving me mad
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... latest post from Mark Shuttleworth talks all about IAAS. I fired IAAS into search & found 2 main choices... http://readwrite.com/2013/05/08/explained-saas-iaas-paas-infographic & http://www.iaasworld.org/joomla/ ...
<SuperEngineer> Dear Mark, perhaps not using pure abbreviation all the time would be helpful ;)
<popey> I = Infrastructure
<SuperEngineer> yup
<foobarry> I Am A Shuttleworth
<SuperEngineer> my brain guessed that one - just found it funny trhat the other choice was "less than useful" ;)
<SuperEngineer> *that
<SuperEngineer> I Am A Sausage
<foobarry> I AM ASTRONAUT SUCKERS!
<SuperEngineer> cool!
 * SuperEngineer used the astronaut bit as the final clincher in convincing someone to use Ubuntu
<SuperEngineer> You wanna use software from Skynet or you wanna use software from an an astronaut?   :D
<dwatkins> They use Linux on the ISS, don't they?
<SuperEngineer> I think they do - & a pet robot [which is probably running some sort of ditto]
<dwatkins> "we are go for main engine start" ... "Wait! My laptop is installing Windows updates!"
<MartijnVdS> Unlikely, ISS would be using XP, which won't gte any more updates soon :
<MartijnVdS> :P
<dwatkins> The horror...
<popey> they recently migrated from windows to linux for many of their laptops
<popey> someone brought a virus on board a while back
<MartijnVdS> that's not something you'd want
<popey> longest travelled computer virus I'd imagine
<popey> you wouldn't want to claim that accolade tho
<dwatkins> given that they have internet access, it's only a matter of time before that is commonplace if they were to continue using Windows.
<SuperEngineer> So all those periods spent by thew early astronauts in isolation chambers were needed.  Yikes, there are viruses in space [who'd have guseed]
<SuperEngineer> If a Windows virus survives re-entry.... the horror!
<SuperEngineer> If a Linux virus survives re-entry... see, told you our viruses are better than your viruses ;)
<popey> they only have internet access for a fraction of the day and it's really slow apparently
<foobarry> the internet access is deliverd by post?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.tested.com/science/space/449539-how-fast-isss-internet-and-other-space-questions-answered/
<MartijnVdS> "The Internet connection uses the Ku-band, which delivers throughput around 10Mbit/sec down and 3Mbit/sec up from the station--roughly equivalent to a home Internet connection."
<MartijnVdS> "The latency will undoubtedly be worse though, as the signal has to make a couple of round trips to geosynchronous orbit and back."
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... if only someone invent an autonomous flying machine to catch internet signals  - maybe even give it a boring name like, oh, let me think... "drone".  ;)
 * SuperEngineer is planning favourite food SEBC [sausage, eggs, beans & chips] tonight - thinking of stepping the overclocking back up - to save me cooking the eggs on the cooker ;)
 * SuperEngineer is now a happy bunny http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/31/world/asia/japan-whale-hunt/
 * awilkins has a delicious whale steak for dinner
 * awilkins is actually having left over Kung Pao Chicken
<mapps> aegh
<mapps> got too drunk again
<mapps> same routine as normal
<SuperEngineer> mapps: that reminds me. I'm on leave!!! Time to open a bottle! Thanks
<bashrc> has someone found a linux virus?
<mapps> :)
<mapps> i planned to have a few
<mapps> few ended up few more than planned
<mapps> 6 cans at home..then went casino manager gets me a free drink and i endup staying till the end
<mapps> only planned on having 4 or so
<SuperEngineer> mapps: that's technically called an "oh-oh" - a.k.a. "WHOOPS!" - a.k.a "helpme!"
<mapps> :D
<mapps> at least i didnt buy some cigs
<mapps> often decide to buy some and pay 9.50 a pack..when i dont even smoke anymore lol
<SuperEngineer> "A leading neuroscientist has suggested that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is ''not a real disease''."
<SuperEngineer> LISTEN TO ME
<SuperEngineer> ....sorry what did I just say... I'm not paying attention
<SuperEngineer> ;)(
<mapps> heh
<SuperEngineer> "A leading SuperEngineer has suggested that Ubuntu deficit hyperactivity disorder (UDHD) is ''not a real disease''."
<SuperEngineer> In fact the "leading" scientist has proved this is often "cured" by superdrug "TestTheBeta"
<daftykins> breaky breaky packages await
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: "packages awaity"... surely ;)
<daftykins> you raise a fine point there
<daftykins> a sea shanty it shall be
 * SuperEngineer sings "ooooh... who lives in a bubble under the sea... Sponge Bob Squarepants"
<SuperEngineer> [soorry - couldn't resist
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/620311-hp-255-g1-laptop-h6q17ea
<daftykins> AMD E1 :S
<popey> Ubuntu \o/
<daftykins> oh i didn't even see that XD
<awilkins> It's a pineapple, isn't it?
<daftykins> huh?
<awilkins> That Spongebob Squarepants lives in
<awilkins> "Who lives in a pineapple under the sea"
<daftykins> don't mention fruit around SuperMatt
<daftykins> oops sorry SuperMatt i meant SuperEngineer
<mapps> :)
<mapps> off tonight too
<mapps> 95% sure itll be a repeat of yesterday:D
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> take note everyone, mapps is getting legless - stay idle on IRC tonight!
<mapps> lol
<mapps> whats that mean?
<mapps> il be going out at some point :)
<daftykins> ;D
<mapps> just deciding what to buy when i do my shopping ... strongbow dark fruits/strongbow citrus .... Heineken or maybe some Zubrowka
<daftykins> how was the strongbow citrus?
<mapps> its ok
<mapps> but
<mapps> nothing great..just made a change
 * awilkins shuns flavoured brewed drinks
<mapps> i prefer strongbow darkfruit
<mapps> BUT
<mapps> its like drinking a bag of sugar..gotta be really bad lol
<mapps> its so damn sweet
<awilkins> Weston's
<awilkins> Cider that tastes like someone fermented some apple juice.
<mapps> but i loved vimto when i was younger..so no surprise i like strongbow dark fruit
<mapps> i bought 8 somersby this moning
<mapps> had stella cidre last night..thats not too bad..bit sweet though even for me
<mapps> stoli vanilla's ok too
<mapps> had a bottle of stoli vanilla on thursday with pepsi..really nice
<mapps> ooh i know
<mapps> eristoff black or gold..i do like that..weak vodka like 20% but flavoured
<daftykins> on my weekly restaurant jaunts i've been having pints of an ale called 'wonkey donkey' of late :D it's hilarious 'cause us Guernsey people are nicknamed donkeys
<daftykins> so a wonkey donkey i do become
<mapps> heh
<mapps> donkeys? whys tat your nickname
<awilkins> Stella Cidre is nasty. So many nasty nasty processed drinkies.
<mapps> yea
<mapps> its quite sweet
<mapps> i like
<mapps> Brothers/Magners/Bulmers
<daftykins> apparently it's because we're stubborn
<mapps> i love brothers toffee apple
<awilkins> That reminds me to get some nice tonic water
<awilkins> That isn't full of saccharin
<mapps> so nice...but again cant drink too many gets sickly
<mapps> maybe 6 or so
<awilkins> A harder task than you might imagine
<mapps> i was talking to a guy iknow at the casino yesterday (employee)
<mapps> he said he earns like 900quid after tax..how can you live on that
<mapps> and for working nights? surely thats like literally minimum wage
<mapps> i thought it was standard to be paid more for nights
<SuperMatt> lols my apport has crashed and I can't close it!
<mapps> 125 quid for tickets to the atp finals
<mapps> is that a lot? how much is normal tennis
<diplo> evening all
<bashrc> trying to get a startSSL certificate
<bashrc> I gave in and got a cheap domain name
<neuro> I think the interface to startssl is a prototype of 2048
<bashrc> something like that
<neuro> i just get mine from gandi
<bashrc> so hopefully if all goes well then I may be able to experiment with pump.io frederation and Red Matrix
<neuro> "pump"
<foobarry> anyone gonna try zram in kernel 3.14?
<MartijnVdS> OpenWRT can use it apparently
<directhex> zram?
<bashrc> foobarry: yes maybe
<popey> zram has existed for ages hasn't it?
<foobarry> are you thinking of the other one
<bashrc> 3.13 seems to be working ok for now though
<foobarry> zswap
<popey> I used it on arm ages ago
<directhex> ramdoubler!
<foobarry> http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.14#head-72b295b09fea85de2e80f0b7850048264fed887e
<foobarry> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18437205/difference-between-zram-and-zswap
<foobarry> still don't understand the difference after reading that
<foobarry> i think zswap strives to reduce swap i/o and zram strive to reduce swappage
<diddledan> foobarry: zswap compresses on-disk, zram compresses in-memory
<foobarry> in any case, time to conisder as chrome zaps my 8gb RAM
<diddledan> oh maybe I'm wrong
<MartijnVdS> the interesting point is LZO, because it's so fast at decompression
<diddledan> the answer on the stack overflow suggests that zswap also does it inmemory
<foobarry> zram less likely to use swap device though
<ali1234> they both technically use swap, because pages can't be compressed unless they have been swapped out
<ali1234> swap itself can be on a ramdisk though
<diddledan> zram can't page to disk in addition to compressing in-memory?
<ali1234> it uses a ramdisk
<diddledan> (according to a SO answer)
<diddledan> ali1234: I mean when the ramdisk is full it can't page out colder items to physical disk allowing for hot objects to remain inmemory
<diddledan> i.e. you can't back the zram with a swapfile
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: you can add both zram and a swapfile though
<diddledan> memory -> compressed zram -> swap
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and give zram a higher priority
<ali1234> zram doesn't integrate with the swap system directly
<ali1234> it just gives you a ramdisk disk with transparent compression
<foobarry> yso how to implement it on your system?
<ali1234> you can use it as a swap device
<diddledan> oic, so you overlay the zram with a swap filesystem?
<diddledan> combining two independant mechanisms
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> zswap is integrated with the swap system and acts as a page cache, also compressed
<foobarry> is there a howto for it?
<diddledan> well that's more unixy than I tend to give modern linux the credit for (*cough* systemd, the one daemon to rule them all *cough*)
<ali1234> stop whinging about systemd, it is good
<diddledan> yey dropbox isn't secret :-) http://grahamcluley.com/2014/03/dropbox-privacy/
<foobarry> diddledan: what does the eula say about copyrighted material?
<diddledan> afaicr it is just boilerplate stating "don't do it!"
<shauno> not sure why everyone's making a big deal outta that.  it's a well-understood mechanism by now
<foobarry> i have 2gb ram in this laptop, zram could help me
<foobarry> what will 14.04 run?
<popey> Linux deep-thought 3.13.0-19-generic #40-Ubuntu SMP Mon Mar 24 02:36:06 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<popey> is what my laptop has
<popey> but it's 3.13 with some stuff backported from 3.14 I believe
<mapps> lol at the sky ad
<mapps> sky shield
<mapps> protects you from internet baddies
<mapps> so samuel l jackson tells me!
<diddledan> mapps: aka censorship
<mapps> yes
<mapps> :D
<mapps> which is garbage
<diddledan> I tried to explain this issue to my family. they don't understand why it is such an important issue
<mapps> i understand there's pedos and the like putting filth online but if these people were dealt with to begin with they wouldn't be able to do anything online
<mapps> but thats another issue
<mapps> surprised MPs aren't worried..how many MPs have been done for child porn and the like now? sickening
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> the keys education not censorship
<bashrc> mapps: protects you from real information more like
<bashrc> censorship and control are two sides of the same coin
<bashrc> MPs would have loved to "protect" the public from information about their expenses
<diddledan> bashrc: hence the problem we're now in, because if they wanted to they can
<diddledan> I like Andrews and Arnolds' method of not implementing the great british firewall
<diddledan> "do you want censored intenret?" "yes" "sorry, not here, buddy, we only do uncensored internet"
<diddledan> see the "Active Choice" section on this page: https://order.aa.net.uk/h1order.cgi
<diddledan> speaking of which, I probably need to turn off the great british firewall of china
<diddledan> oh, that's good news from the sky broadband tho - they now let you have a static ip on their "pro" package
<diddledan> they're trying to retain the bethere.co.uk users that haven't jumped ship yet
<diddledan> ok, the sky shield gives three options: "PG: blocks online gaming, social networking, forums and other sites unsuitable for under 18s"; "13: allows online gaming and social networking and forums but blocks other sites unsuitable for under18s"; and, "18: allows sites suitable for over 18s but BLOCKS ACCESS TO SITES containing phishing and malware" <-- so there's no always-off setting
<diddledan> aah, you have to click through to the FAQ page and find the answer with a link to turn off the shield completely
<diddledan> ooh, brown-out
<diddledan> split second. but my UPS fired up
<popey> can anyone else reproduce bug 1300457 on 14.04?
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1300457 could not be found
<popey> oh, bum - https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/65w9mM8sTox that
<diddledan> popey: it seems that esprima gets caught in an infinite loop on install?
<diddledan> it's sitting there not doing much on mine
<popey> hmm
<popey> it does spin for a while then barfs
<diddledan> I would suggest infinite loop - it's using 100% CPU time and around 15%memory at the moment
<popey> aq suggested i use npm from ppa rather than repo
<diddledan> still spinning away
<diddledan> just jumpet from 17% mem usage to 34% on the NPM process
<diddledan> jumped*
<diddledan> up to 70%
<diddledan> I'm guessing it'll just eat memory until OOM-killer comes along
<diddledan> I think processes murdering other processes should be illegal. especially having one sent to do the murdering by a colonel in the military
<diddledan> and yups, the OOM-murderer came out of hiding
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-01
<bashrc> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> hey folks
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Batman Day! :-D
<nigelb> JamesTait: Nanananananananananananananananananananananananananana.....
<JamesTait> nigelb, Batmaaaaaaaaaaaan!
<nigelb> :D
<popey> Happy mailman day.
<JamesTait> popey, Batman delivers your mail?
<jussi> dammit, I want that also!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> mailman day?
<nigelb> Mailman day indeed.
 * nigelb sees at least 4 different emails from mailman.
<bashrc> http://www.list.org/
<BigRedS> I'm trying to build deb packages of snort; when I do ./configure; make  it succeeds (exits 0) but debuild errors out saying "cc1: all warnings being treated as errors" amongst its output
<BigRedS> Presumably one way to fix this is to turn off that warnings-are-errors, but I can't see where this is set and why debuild does it, anyone know how to do that? Or what I should be looking for
<BigRedS> does debuild set its own CFLAGS to override whatever the configure script does?
<MartijnVdS> it's -Werror
<BigRedS> yeah, that's the sort of thing I've been trying to grep for
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<BigRedS> Ah! Apparently dpkg-buildflags is my culprit!
<Hornet> https://uk.celebrity.yahoo.com/news/benedict-cumberbatch-star-sherlock-game-thrones-crossover-090449821.html
<BigRedS> I'm sure you're not supposed to do that past midday
<DJones> bigcalm: davmor2 Are your peugot's petrol or diesel, if they're diesel, have you had any issues with the clutch on them, doing a bit research, I've been told that the clutch can be a bit weak because of a dual mass flywheel
<davmor2> DJones: Diesel and my clutch is fine
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> DJones: diesel and no problem with the clutch
<DJones> Ta, I'm getting a bit concerned about the potential cost of replacement if it fails, being told it'll cost around Â£1000
<DJones> But seems to be similar on most diesels now
<davmor2> DJones: mine iirc is knocking on 1200,000-ish the only issues I had were the rear wiper and the Joint on the drivers side I think they call it a frapp joint iirc but it is their idea of the ball joint effectively
<davmor2> Those were particularly cheap but at the same time weren't that expensive either
<bigcalm> That's reminded me to get a new rear wiper blade, ta
<DJones> Cheers, I think its just a case of pick car and go for it
<jussi> DJones: just do yourself a favour and buy a volvo
<Laney> bah
<Laney> I've started getting PPI scam phone calls loads in the last few days
 * Laney finds a blacklist
<DJones> jussi: I considered them, but they're a fair bit more expensive to buy & not as many around
<jussi> DJones: yeah, true, but they will go for 3x as long...
<jussi> and I've said it like a million times... "The devil lives in France - and he makes cars!"
<foobarry> Laney: an android blacklist?
<Laney> foobarry: ya
<Laney> luckily they don't call from a withheld number
<MartijnVdS> the Cantina on Mos Eisley didn't allow droids either
<jussi> DJones: are you looking for something for the family? or?
<DJones> jussi: Volvo's have the same clutch replacement pricing issue
<DJones> Yes, family estate, dog in the back, caravan on the back etc, probably Peugeot 407/Mondeo/Insignia estate
<foobarry> Laney: was unaware of blacklists for adnroid, please let us know what you find
<Laney> foobarry: I went to the call log, clicked on the number, pressed the menu button and there was "Add to blacklist" in there
<Laney> running cyanogen though
<jussi> DJones: as much as I generally hate ford, the mondeo is an excellent car for that kind of thing. I have several friends who are very happy with them
<foobarry> i have my own blacklist, but wondered if some nice people ditribute one
<jussi> DJones: on the other side of things, have you considered a Skoda?
<foobarry> that i can use on the android
<xplora1a> put you phone number on the Direct Marketing Association do not call list http://www.dmaconsumers.org/cgi/offtelephonedave/
<foobarry> good luck
<DJones> jussi: The Mondeo was my first choice originally, then various people said not to get one, but I'm looking more at them now that every car seems to have the same issue
<foobarry> i get spammed my ppl all day long, with no regard for do not call list
<bashrc> I have a special hate of telemarketers
<bashrc> do not call can sometimes be effective, but given the global nature of spam not always
<DJones> jussi: I looked at the skoda octavia, but a bit light for what I may want to tow in future so had to forget that
<jussi> DJones: really? that would suprise me....
<xplora1a> oops this is the right link for the tps http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25222891
<DJones> jussi: Yeah, surprised me as well, they're a bit limited even though they win tow car of the year awards from most places
<jussi> DJones: the 2.0TDI is a very good motor, Im a bit suprised tbh
<jussi> DJones: you should just import a V8 commodore from australia :D
<DJones> jussi: From the skoda website The Å KODA Octaviaâs 1,330kg kerbweight makes it the lightest overall winner in the seven-year history of the Tow Car Awards. That means itâs best suited to pulling relatively light tourers
<jussi> DJones: and have you considered a town truck? (city 4WD) ?
<DJones> jussi: Should go back to my Sedonna, that could probably tow an articulated lorrey
<DJones> jussi: Don';t want 4WD because of the fuel consumption
<jussi> DJones: I still highly suggest a V70 ;) (or XC70)
<DJones> :)
<jussi> DJones: i had an S80 for some time - was fantastic
<jussi> DJones: Ive seen many a V70/S80 that happily go for 700 000km
<DJones> I can believe it, volvos are pretty much bomb proof
<jussi> I guess that is why they are a bit more expensive
<jussi> DJones: do you like motorsport at all ?
<DJones> Not anymore, I used to, but gave up on F1, only ones I may watch now are Indycart or Nascar
<jussi> if you havent seen this... was awesome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAFRS5r2g8E
<DJones> Nice, I used to watch the Bathurst races, they were always good for "incidents"
<jussi> I love the V8 supercars - especially as they have added mercedes, volvo and nissan to it
<DJones> What was the big Holden supercars that used to get raced? GTS/GTR?
<DJones> GTS
<DJones> Used to do the accounts for an 'exotic car' importer & he had one in, took me for a ride in it, that was a hell of a car
<jussi> DJones: i went in a mclaren at 3 sisters a few weeks ago, that was fun
<DJones> jussi: Sounds good, I've been on OUlton Park in the old Escort RS's and single seaters, thats quite fun
<Hornet> [12:09] <BigRedS> I'm sure you're not supposed to do that past midday
<Hornet> it was before
<BigRedS> Not according to my client :) But I don't have the logs here now
<Myrtti> oh, obviously that wasn't the april fools
<Myrtti> april fools was that we bend time and posted that actually 12 hours prior
<MooDoo> afternoon all :D
<MooDoo> quiet in here today
<nigelb> hi MooDoo
<brobostigon> afternoodlings MooDoo
<foobarry> glad to hear that nuts mag is dead
<foobarry> now for zoo
<MooDoo> can't say I ever read it, although I do prefer the old sunday sport :D  that's real.
<MooDoo> ;)
<popey> I dont think I've ever seen inside Zoo or Nuts
<foobarry> popey: me neither, but the front cover is sufficient
 * bigcalm tuts
<foobarry> can you edit a docx file uploaded to google docs?
<foobarry> >>yes , but you have to right click and choose editor instead of viewer :S
<MartijnVdS> only if you convert it first
<foobarry> what a faff
<MartijnVdS> nah, it only edits its own format
<foobarry> not very intuitive as to what is happening though
<foobarry> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1215513
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1215513 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "System locks up, requires hard reset" [High,Fix released]
<foobarry> fixed or not?
<foobarry> join #elementary-dev
<foobarry> woops
<mapps> hey
<foobarry> is now zrammed up
<daftykins> foobarry: now we know you're a double agent for elementary! ;)
<foobarry> :P
<dwatkins> Professor Elemental? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eELH0ivexKA
<mapps> zrammed?
<dwatkins> our IT guy sent around a mail about training for MS Outlook, Sharepoint etc. - I asked if it was an April fools' joke.
<daftykins> :D:D
<daftykins> was it not?
<dwatkins> it was serious
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> sharepoint ugh
<dwatkins> yeah
<daftykins> i remember when i was teaching at my old College, this new lecturer was desperate to move us to using it for department shared documents like grade tracking and so on
<daftykins> but i liked just having it on a network drive =|
<daftykins> especially as i used to work in their IT support dept. so i knew sharepoint wasn't backed up ;D
<mapps> u were teaching? cool
<daftykins> just briefly to help out an old College of FE yeah
<mapps> cool
<daftykins> (further education)
<daftykins> gotta stop assuming people know it, heh
<daftykins> to this day peeps come up to me and go haaaaaai Dave, at random gigs and stuff across the island, only i may not even know them
<mapps> i knew it
<mapps> from school?
<daftykins> nah like ex students and stuff
<daftykins> from said College time
<mapps> ah
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/a7fx2r188oaeh66/lappy.JPG
<daftykins> blast from the past
<dwatkins> both the phone and the laptop, yeah
<daftykins> :>
<mapps> :)
<mapps> what yiu doing with that
<daftykins> just digging out some old pictures from years ago
<popey> heh, i do that now and then
<daftykins> i had that when i was a student in said college ~2003
<daftykins> bought the Dell from ebay for Â£140 :D
<popey> i go back and find pictures I took on this day some years back and then post them to family on fb
<daftykins> thats neat
<popey> wow, time flies
<popey> found a picture of Sam (who would have been 4 at the time) playing a game on my ipad 1st gen
<popey> he still plays it
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> hrmm, those earlier iPads and what not that have been ditched from iOS updates, would they still contain that big SSL bug?
<popey> mine is on ios5
<mapps> ive got the ipad air:D and nexus7
<dwatkins> iOS 5 never had that bug, it's only iOS 6 that did.
<daftykins> ah i see
<daftykins> and 7
<dwatkins> http://www.iphonehacks.com/2014/02/fix-ssl-bug-without-upgrading-ios-7-0-6-ios-6-1-6.html
<popey> the oldest photo I have in my collection is from 1999
<popey> wifey at the airport before I took her on holiday and proposed â»
<daftykins> 8D
<bigcalm> Aww
<mapps> rejecte dagain
<mapps> 2nd ballot for tickets to bayern v united
<mapps> ;/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8i16eae5050qx8w/zelda.png
<daftykins> aww yeah
<DJones> popey: You around?
<DJones> Never mind, an ops was needed in on-aire
<popey> surprised jono let that go on as long as he did
<DJones> I'm not in the channel so didn't see what was happening, maybe look at logs next time they update
 * DJones wonders why software updater doesn't notify me of updates with 14.04
<DJones> popey: Seems like they're back and you have ops
<diddledan> dear lord these are nuts: http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/if-you-want-laughs-and-to-feel-a-bit-sick-you-should-follow
<diddledan> photos from crap taxidermy's twitter
<daftykins> diddledan: excellent find
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> cant access my webs erver externally and the ports are forwarded
<mapps> and no iptables rules
<daftykins> daemon stopped?
<mapps> na
<mapps> its this zentyal
<mapps> causing trouble
<mapps> cant seem to get rid of it now
<directhex> popey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7191275/ is the apparmour log moan
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> https://46.64.196.96
<mapps> works
<mapps> but normal wont
<daftykins> sounds like your default site has been edited
<daftykins> under apache config
<mapps> sec
<mapps> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7191300/
<mapps> i wanna get rid of zentyal and nginx i dunno how now..i added their repo and installed but just cant get t to go
<popey> directhex: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1298021 same as me right?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1298021 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Google Chrome (not chromium) won't start in guest session" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<directhex> yes
<mapps> any ideas daftykins?
<popey> directhex: checked with security bod, it's on his list, it will be fixed
<directhex> ok, great
<directhex> next on my list: convince gnome to stop being hidpi
<daftykins> mapps: were you always using nginx?
<daftykins> mapps: surely just remove the packages? :)
<bigcalm> New Humble Bundle is out. Only really interested in 3 items in it though: Droken Sword 2, Bridge Constructor and Type:Rider
<bigcalm> Likely to give away the other 3 titles
<popey> ooh
 * bigcalm also buys Goat Simulator
<bigcalm> Planet Explorers looks nice
<diddledan> that goat stimulator looks .. erm .. weird
<diddledan> I'm not sure I quite understand the concept
<diddledan> is it "you're a goat. now go get killed in the weirdest way possible"?
<daftykins> diddledan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3YyOMqqMDg
<daftykins> warning NSFW ^
<daftykins> not safe for human consumption
<daftykins> rude language, etc.
<dwatkins> "Any key?! Where's the any key?!" - Home Simpson
<daftykins> exactly :D
<Seeker`> All this computer hacking is making me thirsty, I think I'll start a tab
<dwatkins> If you want a tab pal, you gotta buy something!
<dwatkins> (that was a quote from Back to the Future)
<Seeker`> (mine was from simpsons :P)
<Seeker`> followed by "Ooh, no time now, its starting"
<Seeker`> I think
<daftykins> http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Purple/v4/5e/89/1a/5e891af6-22cc-e33a-2772-ed579dfe1534/mzl.oojxehsl.png
<daftykins> i got this for you
<dwatkins> Why does tab have two arrows on it?
<Seeker`> you can make text go either way with it
<bigcalm> Tab goes to the right. Shift+tab goes to the left
<daftykins> perhaps it's to refer to countries that write from right to left :D
<dwatkins> ah yes, of course
<bigcalm> I don't think that's it
<dwatkins> and ctrl-tab goes to the next tab...
<dwatkins> ...and ctrl-shift-tab takes you to places you can only imagine
<daftykins> like from www.zombo.com
<bigcalm> http://imgur.com/gallery/ltMAjH1
 * bigcalm slithers off to bed
<dwatkins> bigcalm: that's ace, reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4fWMLofvo
<diddledan> how does that imgur work?!
<diddledan> ah hah
<diddledan> it's not clever at all - they just screenshotted the comments and pasted that at the foot of the image to make it appear clever
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> a good effort nonetheless
<daftykins> even if it is still a major timewasters website
<diddledan> I'm guessing they posted this in advance of 1st april: http://imgur.com/blog/2014/03/31/introducing-imgur-viralizer/
<dwatkins> The URL kinda gives that away ;)
<diddledan> well my point was that the url says march 31st which is, to the best of my knowledge, not april fools day
<dwatkins> It is in Australia...
<diddledan> yeah, but it's also winter there
<dwatkins> indeed http://peasandcougars.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/is-winter-coming-flowchart.jpg
<diddledan> (or will be once we can get rid of the effects up here)
<diddledan> lol
<dwatkins> It must be really strange to see people dressed as Santa Claus / Father Christmas in the height of a blazing summer.
<dwatkins> Also, a fire hazard around the bar-be-que.
<diddledan> he should have a summer version for the upside-downers
<diddledan> sports shorts and a vest
<dwatkins> I think I need a better graphics card for my windows - the draw distance is really low when I look outside.
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> the backlight has broken on my window
<daftykins> >:)
<daftykins> i find nature needs to upgrade the sea since GTA V came out
 * diddledan wonders how AlanBell is getting on with the libertos cluster
<diddledan> once ubuntu/libertos is compiled I suggest retasking the pis to world domination activities
<daftykins> diddledan: skynet becomes pinet?
<diddledan> that's a clever parallel
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> I like :-)
<diddledan> just been watching this: https://www.meteor.com/screencast <-- I'm worried by their seeming lack of authentication requirements to access the database backend - it seems that anybody driving-by an app can arbitrarily add and remove stuff from the database
<daftykins> all beyond me i'm afraid
<dwatkins> http://xkcd.com/327/ explains all
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-02
<diddledan> *drool* http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/sx130
<diddledan> that's a lot of server
<daftykins> pricey pricey
<daftykins> i'd rather that storage locally ;D
<daftykins> my 5TB RAID5 is sooo full ;/
<daftykins> 82GB left D:
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> HDD FTW
<jpds> daftykins: Surely you should be using Ceph.
<daftykins> ?
<jpds> ceph.com
<diddledan> ceph?
<diddledan> *click*
<daftykins> *blinks*
<diddledan> buzzwords
<jpds> RAID was so... 5 years ago.
<diddledan> what's it do?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> IIRC most storage systems backend onto RAID
<daftykins> that's handy since i put this one together 6 years ago ;D
<diddledan> I can't imagine amazon not using RAID for e.g.
<diddledan> if "ceph replaces raid" then how does it do the job better?
<jpds> I was partially joking around. ;-)
<jpds> You would only use Ceph if you want to "build a SAN out of commodity hardware"
<diddledan> o_o
<jpds> diddledan: You've clearly not seen it in action.
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> is there an easy intro video anywhere I can watch without having to think?
<diddledan> (it's late!)
<jpds> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyH1C0C4HzM looks legit.
<jpds> Never watched it.
<jpds> Actually, looks really well done.
<diddledan> lol, it's fun actually
<diddledan> "giant spendy computer"
<jpds> diddledan: But yeah, Ceph's been the hot thing in storage for the last couple of years.
<diddledan> how does it compare to swift from openstack?
<jpds> diddledan: Swift only does object storage.
<diddledan> (swift seems to be an integral part of openstack)
<diddledan> aah
<jpds> diddledan: Ceph does object, block and a filesystem.
<diddledan> I'm oldskool - I like filesystem access methods
<jpds> But yeah, ceph can replace swift for openstack.
<jpds> diddledan: Thoughts?
<diddledan> interesting
<diddledan> I'm wondering whether it's of use on small-scale - i.e. 1-3 servers
<jpds> You need at least 3 servers for Ceph.
<jpds> Because of the voting between monitoring servers.
<jpds> But yeah, at that point you'll have "network RAID" across the servers' disks.
<diddledan> playing with juju - you can seriously ramp-up some costs if you're not careful
 * jussi waves to the Channel
<MartijnVdS> ~~~~~
 * nigelb waves back to jussi
<mapp> morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapp> morning
<Myrtti> blaa
 * MooDoo hugs Myrtti 
<Myrtti> my sister was in UK and over our place and inlaws for the first time, she's just left for the airport
<Myrtti> I feel exhausted
<mapp> urgh gotta phone sky
<diddledan> mapp: they done something wrong, or you just fancy a chinwag?
<mapp> well
<mapp> ive switched from o2 broadband to sky as sky bought o2 and had a letter a year ago
<mapp> but nothing since
<mapp> no detals of price/package etc...and its niw switched
<mapp> if i leave it i can imagine it'll be more hassle
<MooDoo> I phoned them the other day to cancel movies, seemed to go ok.
<mapp> camt even find the price
<mapp> for without a phoneline
<mapp> im with bt
<MooDoo> I was thinking about bt but I'd need a phoneline and infinity isn't in my area yet.
<whowhat> @seek python
<diddledan> whowhat: python: yeah, it's around here someplace
<diddledan> well that was.. random
<MooDoo> @seek thenextlotterynumbers
<MooDoo> come on diddledan hurry up answer me ;)
<diddledan> MooDoo: thenextlotterynumbers: I'm sorry, but future-gazing is beyond my remit
<MooDoo> diddledan: go on amuse me give me 7 numbers
<diddledan> 6**
<diddledan> they pull 7 out of the machine but you're only allowed to pick 6
<MooDoo> diddledan: was going to buy a euromillions with your numbers then
<diddledan> oh euro
<MooDoo> 5 numbers between 1 - 50
<diddledan> meh
<MooDoo> and 2 between 1 - 11
<diddledan> yeah the eurobajillions throws a spanner in the works
<MooDoo> diddledan: pah would of given you a million then if it's have won with your numbers, lucky dip it is then
<diddledan> licky dip is tasty
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<mapp> result
<mapp> found a train thats not a ripoff and before midday:D
<mapp> 06;16 gets me back at 07;45 Â£56
<mapp> next ones Â£109 :|
<MooDoo> huzzah! when's that for?
<mapp> next monday/tuesday
<mapp> going on monday but cant make the last train
<mapp> or im not confident i can basically
<mapp> i could buy a ticket for the last train 22;50 - but im not sure il make it unless i leave early
<mapp> bit annoying cant take my laptop or anything..nowhere to leave them
<MooDoo> mapp: work trip or pleasure?
<mapp> going to WHL
<mapp> :d
<MooDoo> western hockey league? lol
<mapp> WHITE HART LANE
<MooDoo> cricket right?
<MooDoo> ;)
<mapp> LOL
<mapp> spurs v sunderland
<bashrc_> morning ubuntuers
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jussi> mapp: who are you supporting?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Reconciliation Day! :-D
<mapp> spurs
<mapp> gah my machine's so noisy atm
<mapp> when its compiling etc its so loud
<mapp> but its not doing anything atm from what top shows
<MartijnVdS> maybe you're just hot? ;)
<MartijnVdS> and it's trying to be cool
<jussi> mapp: so you had a good weekend last weekend then :P
<mapp> hahaha yes 4-0 liverpool
<mapp> lol
<jussi> < - Liverpool Supporter
<mapp> :)
<jussi> mapp: what do you think, will Liverpool win the league ? :D
<mapp> yes
<mapp> im going to united v sunderland
<mapp> and united v hull too
<mapp> in manchester..which is much easier for me
<mapp> i can get a taxi home if i miss last train:D
<mapp> diddledan how often does your ip change?
<mapp> mines changed 3x in a week and i never turn my router off
<mapp> my previous ip i had for like 6 years;/
<mapp> 94.193.78.219 :D
<DJones> Ouch, wonder what the repair bill was for this car accident https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kfS8iz2NaLE
<MooDoo> mapp: mine rarely changes, just a couple of times a week
<diddledan> mapp: I've just requested sky give me a static one - how long it'll be before they actually do is another matter tho
<mapp> h,
<mapp> hm
<mapp> can you do that?!
<mapp> im using noip and the noip linux cient which is handy
<mapp> but i do likehaving a static ip
<DJones> diddledan: I didn't think Sky did static ip's
<diddledan> DJones: it's new
<DJones> INteresting
<diddledan> part of sky's attempt to retain bethere.co.uk users since they merged
<foobarry> morning kids
<diddledan> they're also planning on introducing DSL line profiles, again for the hardcore bethere users
<mapp> were you with bethere diddledan?
<diddledan> nope
<mapp> how do i request a static ip?
<mapp> also what do you mean DSL line profiles
<diddledan> https://mysky.sky.com/mysky/profilesettings/pro-broadband-settings
<diddledan> they refer to line profile thingy as "line profile customisation"
<mapp> whats that even mean:Z
<mapp> sparkys still on bethere eh
<diddledan> line profile customisation is usually switching the dsl properties to get the lowest latency for gaming
<diddledan> ... at the risk of having a less-stable connection
<mapp> aha
<foobarry> popey: as predicted, seen news that wales may ban e-fags in enclosed public spaces
<popey> interesting
<MooDoo> popey: did you watch jono's q&a last night, bad jono doesn't like you :D
<jussi> ok, spicy prawn ramen gone... now for butterscotch pie :D
<jussi> Ive not made butterscitch pie before, but this one worked amazingly :D
<popey> MooDoo: no..what?
<popey> link me to the mins
<diddledan> he had a dig at the GPL too
<diddledan> I came in right at the last minute tho, so I missed most of the rant
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mojmJ_MpBM was the best joke from yesterday
<ali1234> and the only one that was actually entertaining at all
<MooDoo> popey: it was jono's april fool gag, he was leaving open source, bad mouthing ubuntu, moving to windows 98, the only thing he liked about his team was one of your collegues luxurious hair, it was awesome :D
<MooDoo> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlYk4RlOnJY is the link to the q&a but I don't have the time where he mentions his team lol
<popey> ali1234: i dont get it â»
<ali1234> well you have to have watched his old videos
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<neuro> so wait
<bashrc> morning
<neuro> "Sky Unlimited Pro" users, who are ex-Be and ex-O2 users, get the option of a static IP
<neuro> but "Sky Unlimited Fibre Pro" users, who are on 80/20 FTTC, don't?
<neuro> s/Unlimited Fibre/Fibre Unlimited/
<bashrc> static IP must surely be a rare commodity, unless its IPv6
<neuro> it's a rare commodity if you're trying to get a new allocation
<neuro> if you're Sky, who have absorbed various networks' allocations, including Avatar/Be/O2's, it's not a big deal
<neuro> and any kind of unused IPv4 is a rare thing, not just statically assigned ones
<neuro> if you have 1 million customers, you still need 1 million IPs, unless you're stupid (or very sure of your customer usage patterns) and underprovision
<neuro> i don't understand all the apprehension from be users
<neuro> i switched from be to sky before they were even bought
<neuro> all i miss are the static IPs, and then even not so much
<neuro> i get on fine with dynamic dns and v6 tunnels
<neuro> once i figured out how to make pfsense tell he.net what my IP was :D
<codecowboy> Hi. Is there a way to list sftp-server enabled user in Ubuntu from command line?
<codecowboy> user = users ^^
<neuro> iirc any user with a valid shell can potentially do sftp
<neuro> although your sshd config may vary
<BigRedS__> yeah, how you do it depends on how you've configured your sshd
<BigRedS__> in general, anyone with a valid shell can do sftp
<MartijnVdS> valid shell *and credentials*
<BigRedS__> oh yeah
<foobarry> so...windows. choose hibernate, does nothing. looks the screen
<foobarry> chose shutdown and now 61 updates getting installed..no warning :( i'm in a rush too
<BigRedS__> All the cool OSes have stopped supporting hibernate anyway
<BigRedS__> oh, right
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: there's usually a warning on the shutdown button, it has a yellow thingy next to it
<foobarry> doesn't seem to be
<codecowboy> BigRedS__neuro thanks
<diddledan> I think that's my static IP just been applied
<MooDoo> diddledan: nice :D
<diddledan> had to force my non-sky router to request the dhcp for it to work
<diddledan> re-request**
<diddledan> it just so happened that the connection disappeared (removal of old IP, I guess) at the same time I logged-out and back-in on my laptop
<diddledan> so I was confuddled for a moment
<diddledan> thinking I'd broken my laptop
<bigcalm> Speaking of laptops, I don't think I've been able to use the eth port on mine yet. Tried a couple of times, found it didn't work so reverted to wifi but never followed it up.
<foobarry> bigcalm: win or lin?
<bigcalm> Ubuntu 14.04
<bigcalm> I have a feeling that it'll be drivers
<MooDoo> bigcalm: I must admit I used mine for the first time the other night with though ethernet over power adapters I have....
<foobarry> does ifconfig eth0 show it?
<bigcalm> foobarry: don't know, not in front of my laptop at the moment
<foobarry> i struggle to remember if kazam is called kazam or shazam
<MooDoo> foobarry: file sharing?  wasn't is kazaam? two a's?
<popey> screencasting, kazam
<popey> !info kazam
<lubotu3> kazam (source: kazam): screencast and screenshot application created with design in mind. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.3-2 (saucy), package size 880 kB, installed size 2425 kB
<MooDoo> ah I was thinking of Kazaa
<foobarry> kazoo, yazoo
<foobarry> yazz, tizer, tizwas
<MooDoo> the phantom flan flinger
<jussi> bazoo
<foobarry> banjo kazooie
<diddledan> bonza bongos?
<jussi> beechcraft bonanza?
<diddledan> sorry, family friendly!
<MooDoo> Yo're all nuts
<jussi> MooDoo: tell us something we werent aware of...
<diddledan> MooDoo: was there a point?
<MooDoo> nah just stating the obvious.....Anyone apart from me, popey et al going on the RAT in august?
<foobarry> bonza bongos is a future ubuntu release
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> foobarry: alternatively bonza badonkadonks
<popey> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<diddledan> rats!
<popey> MooDoo: that link shows who is going
<MooDoo> o/
 * bigcalm wonders if he has met Paul Mellors
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you can't miss me, I'm rather tall
<bigcalm> Heh
<foobarry> anyone know of an issue where ubuntu fails to recognise a raid5 , and calls it raid45 instead?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: That's the problem with IRC nicks that aren't real names
<foobarry> cannot install ubuntu properly
<foobarry> because it mis-detects the disk
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you could of met me if you went to the lug radio live event in wolverhampton many moons ago
<Laney> bah, need ssd
<Laney> or maybe to remove windows
<MooDoo> ssd ftw o/
<Laney> current one is full
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I went to the very last lug radio live and have been to all of the oggcamps
<Laney> don't think i've booted windows this year actually
<popey> i removed windows from my second ssd
<popey> so now I have / on one ssd, and /home on the other
<popey> which is a touch excessive
<Laney> it's annoying having to clean stuff up every other day
<MooDoo> bigcalm: probably not then, was supposed to fo to the last few oggcamps, but fate didn't allow me too :(
<popey> yeah, thats what motivatred me to do it
<Laney> yeah i've got a lot of rust for bulky stuff
<popey> /dev/sdb1 on / type btrfs (rw,noatime,nodiratime)
<popey> /dev/sda1 on /home type btrfs (rw,noatime,nodiratime)
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Oh, I tell a lie. I didn't go to last year's oggcamp. I got married instead
<Laney> can't imagine going over 240 really
<popey> heh, thats 2x240
<popey> /dev/sdb1            231G   33G  196G  15% /
<popey> /dev/sda1            224G  196G   27G  88% /home
<Laney> yeah... room to grow...
<diddledan> google+ is auto-hoffsome-ing photos
<diddledan> http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/introducing-auto-awesome-photobombs.html
<jussi> diddledan: that is really scary
<MooDoo> anyone play riddling?
<popey> ya
<MooDoo> popey: i'm stuck on question 4 *blush*
<popey> whats the clue?
<MooDoo> A new hope
<popey> :D
<MooDoo> thought it was start wars or something but alas no lol
<popey> it is
<MartijnVdS> it is
<popey> 4 = A New Hope
<popey> 5 = ????
<MartijnVdS> remember the lessons from the previous clues as well
<MartijnVdS> (Letter Case Matters)
<MooDoo> damn it lol
<MooDoo> oh stupid app :)
<SuperMatt> word up
<SuperMatt> two weeks left now?
<MooDoo> ?
<SuperMatt> 14.04
<MooDoo> ah yeah
<SuperMatt> 17th of April
<SuperMatt> still wanna know some deets about a release party ;)
<BigRedS__> Oh yeah, I forgot that was happening
<BigRedS__> is that on the 17th@?
<popey> Oh, 18th is good friday?
<MartijnVdS> 20 is easter
<MartijnVdS> so.. probably?
<popey> right, I'll fire a mail at the list
<BigRedS__> oh yeah, 18th is a day off isn't it?
<smittix> Afternoon all.
<bashrc> evening
<bashrc> I liked the Jono April fool
<bigcalm> Cisco SPA303-G3 be mine
<diddledan> bigcalm: pervert
<diddledan> apple's time machine is weird - it's complaining that it can't complete a backup because it wants 390GB of space on the backup disc to save the snapshot of a 250GB disc
<diddledan> whart? ubuone is going away?
<ali1234> not really all that surprising
<ali1234> it hasn't worked properly for months
<diddledan> I really don't get how my mac can be backing up over 300GB from a 250GB HDD
<mapp> lol
<mapp> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FWFYTPK/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=electronics
<mapp> http://www.maxicharger.co.uk/collections/all/products/maxi-charger-iphone-5-bumper-black-cover
<mapp> the maxicharger claims to have moe power and be a fraction of the price?
<mapp> hmm
 * bigcalm eyes the cisco phone
<bigcalm> Every change via the web interface appears to cause the phone to reboot
<neuro> ubuntu one is being killed off?
<neuro> i can't imagine aq's happy
<neuro> unless i've fallen for something "amusing"
<neuro> "As of today, April 2 ..." ah, no, I haven't. OK.
<neuro> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/canonical-axe-ubuntu-one-file-music-services-grab-data-now
<popey> "now" or any time up to 31st July
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think the secret is to stop playing with it :P
<popey> i see he changed the title, kept the url
<bashrc> ubuntu one? dead?
<neuro> not yet
<neuro> but it's in the post
<neuro> can't buy music or additional space as of today
<neuro> features disabled on june 1st
<neuro> files deleted and service shuttered july 31st
<neuro> according to d00d
<bashrc> well, that's a surprise
<bashrc> but having said that I never used ubuntu one much
<neuro> me either
<neuro> never did like the UI
<neuro> but nautilus and backup integration was nice
<bashrc> "February past saw an extended period of outage. It says something that this went, for the first week or so, largely, unnoticed."
<neuro> huh, i *do* have it installed ...
<neuro> ... and it's not connecting.
<diddledan> davmor2: I was told I'd go blind if I didn't stop playing with it
<neuro> oh, here we go
<neuro> ah, here's the official word
<neuro> https://one.ubuntu.com/services/shutdown/
<neuro> http://blog.canonical.com/2014/04/02/shutting-down-ubuntu-one-file-services/
<foobarry> u1 is closing?
<foobarry> fail
<foobarry> who is offering free storage of 25-50gb?
<directhex> box.net
<popey> copy.com ?
<foobarry> box.net sucks though
<foobarry> sftp is 1kb/s , no desktop app,
<foobarry> looks like dropbox has won
<bashrc> the main reason why I didn't use ubuntu one much was that I had my own server, so it's easy to use sshfs and so on
<foobarry> i worry about owncloud becoming pwncloud
<neuro> free?
<bashrc> why so?
<neuro> pffff
<bigcalm> My desk phone thinks that it's 21:38 \o/
<neuro> dropbox is 2G for free, 100G for $9.99/mo
<davmor2> bigcalm: time you knocked off then surely
<neuro> google drive is 15G for free, 100G for $1.99/mo
<foobarry> having to administer your own cloud server ..what happens if major bug and you're on holiday
<foobarry> or really busy
<foobarry> google drive has a linux cilent?
<neuro> foobarry: then you shouldn't be administering your own cloud server
<foobarry> "foobarry> i worry about owncloud becoming pwncloud   "
<foobarry> exactly
<davmor2> foobarry: you can have a cloud server or a holiday not both
<foobarry> yep
<diddledan> has anybody explained the process that canonical were using to build maguro touch images yet?
<diddledan> (galaxy nexus)
 * bigcalm now has a fully working SIP set-up for the 3 remote offices
<bigcalm> All that's left is to get our 0845 number ported from the existing provider
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> bigcalm: well done!
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<diddledan> SIP is a magical black box to me
<bigcalm> I did the research, boss chose the company, I set up our account using their web interface
<bigcalm> Everything just works(tm)
<daftykins> and when there's a power cut...? :)
<bigcalm> Then I won't get customer calls \o/
<bigcalm> No lose situation
<popey> i thought you had a ups
<bigcalm> Shh
<bigcalm> Currently the desk phone isn't plugged into it
<bigcalm> So in that instance, only my desktop client and mobile will ring
<bigcalm> Humm...
<bigcalm> It's nice that I can log into 3 devices with the same account
 * brobostigon highlights its world autism awareness day, today.
<bigcalm> Maybe I should have bought a switch that does PoE
 * bigcalm ponders the SGS5 for his next handset (assuming that t-mobile won't be offering the Nexus 5)
<daftykins> why not just go SIM only so you can have whatever phone you want? :)
<daftykins> Samsungs come with so much tosh these days
<daftykins> it's like setting up a new Windows laptop with a fresh install, almost, to disable it all ;)
<brobostigon> nexus, :)
<brobostigon> or gpe.
<bigcalm> daftykins: because I prefer to have a handset from a contract
<daftykins> fair enough
<bigcalm> Quite like my SGS3
<daftykins> still an alien world to me, that
<neuro> contract phone = mad
<ali1234> yeah why would anyone want to pay 15% less? madness
<directhex> contract phones can have a lower TCO over 2 years than separate phone and contract
<directhex> and additionally, you don't need Â£300+ up front
<ali1234> yes, 15% less according to my calculations
<ali1234> if you factor in the interest free load then you don't even need to go 24 months to make it cheaper
<directhex> it's model- and network-dependant
<neuro> ali1234: show your workings then :)
<ali1234> neuro: an example int he comments on this post: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/byCeLFpoCpS
<neuro> do you know what your savings get you?
<neuro> lack of flexibility
<ali1234> the sim only option is still 12 month minimum
<neuro> and if you're not savvy, you'll still end up paying that same high contract cost after the contract has ended
<neuro> eh?
<SuperEngineer> neuro: or.... more money -this can be important to those of us who understand the value of money
<neuro> SuperEngineer: you're saying i don't understand the value of money?
<neuro> ali1234: what are you talking about?
<SuperEngineer> e.g. daughter is now currently saving a fortune... she has ebnough of a brain to mix and match until she got the right deal
<ali1234> the sim only option i used to calculate the price difference has a minimum term of 12 months
<ali1234> i would have used the 24 month equivalent, but they don't have one
<neuro> so?
<neuro> there are other sim only options
<neuro> so you can rock out of your 30 day rolling if a better deal comes along
<ali1234> yeah, you can have a 1 month term, but it is even more expensive
<neuro> not that much
<neuro> 3 One Plan is Â£72 more expensive over 2 years
<ali1234> Â£48 over 24 months
<neuro> and that's an epic tariff
<ali1234> that's like an extra 5% on top
<SuperEngineer> me... I really don't care - firm supplies a phone which they feel to phone me on even when I'm on leave [now]
<neuro> i'd rather buy outright so i have a measure of flexibility
<SuperEngineer> ...I therefore feee free to use it for my own phone and onlyt phone
<ali1234> factor in the free credit you;re getting and it's more like 25%
<neuro> which is what i did
<ali1234> if you're not savvy you're going to get screwed no matter what
<ali1234> such is life
 * neuro idly strokes nearby iPhone 5s
<neuro> plus the hassle of unlocking when your contract is over if you decide to move
<ali1234> no hassle at all. you ring them up and get a code and it's done
<neuro> ha
 * SuperEngineer idly strokes firms firm set to ignore all firm's calls and act only for friends and family ;)
<ali1234> or you just get a new subsidised phone with a new contract
<neuro> ew
<neuro> "hello phone network, please lock me into your service and this what-will-be-a-crappy-handset-halfway-through-the-contract phone for the next $LARGE_PROPORTION_OF_MY_LIFE months, ta"
<SuperEngineer> *phone
<neuro> i'm so done with that
<ali1234> you are in no way locked in to the handset
<ali1234> you can buy a new one and use it any time you want
<ali1234> you still have to pay for the old one either way
<neuro> so you buy a new phone
<neuro> but you're still locked into the more expensive tariff
<neuro> sorry, i just prefer the concept of divorcing the handset from the operator
<ali1234> yes, you are still locked in to a credit arrangement for the product you bought
<bigcalm> Maybe I should ditch Android and get an iPhone
<ali1234> you will still end up paying less
<neuro> it's like saying you're happy to get a cheaper car that only takes petrol from tesco, and you can only ever fill up at tesco
<bigcalm> I only fill up at Tesco as it is
<ali1234> no, it's like saying if you buy a phone on credit card you should be able to stop paying the CC bill after 6 months because you don't like the phone any more
<neuro> bigcalm: you should ditch android and get an iphone, but of course, i *would* say that
<neuro> ali1234: no, it's not
<SuperEngineer> neuro: as long as you realise *they* are tracking you no matter what/how smart you think on a mobile device.... go with your own choice... all you're doing is choosing how much u want to pay GCHQ to track you.
<neuro> SuperEngineer: errr, ok
<SuperEngineer> *final*
<ali1234> if you want a car analogy, it's like buying a car that comes with free petrol for 24 months and the petrol can be used in any car, but you still have to pay for the car you bought
<neuro> nope
<neuro> anyway
<smittix> Evening all
<neuro> is it?
<neuro> evening?
<neuro> jeez
<smittix> heh
<neuro> ali1234: something you're forgetting is that operators top load the tariffs on contract phones
<neuro> if all you need is a couple of hundred minutes and light data, you'll probably not find that on a high end smartphone deal
<neuro> or you will, but the up front will be greater
<neuro> in other news, amazon have shipped my samsung evo ssd by royal mail!
<neuro> and not the clowns at yodel \o/
<neuro> so looking forward to this
<neuro> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00E3W16OU
<mapps> footie time in a bit
<mapps> real madrid
<mapps> :D
<neuro> oh aye
<mapps> yesh
<mapps> i use works pictures laptop -> hdmi
<mapps> and then put 2 games on
<mapps> :)
<neuro> lol
<neuro> what, are you using sky go or something?
<mapps> no
<mapps> lol
<mapps> cobain
<neuro> which is?
<mapps> now owned by perform group (sports streaming comany)
<mapps> they provide streams to bookmakers
<neuro> oh of course
<neuro> just remembered what you do
<neuro> :)
<mapps> it costs like thousands per month
 * neuro hates sky go
<neuro> piece of silverlight rubbish
<mapps> like my pictures were 6 sec ahead of my mate last week
<mapps> and clearly no good for betting
<mapps> sky that is
<neuro> sky don't even support sky go on windows 8.x or OS X 10.8/9
<mapps> lol
<mapps> its embarassing
<mapps> how we ge t faster feeds for prem games
<neuro> yup
<mapps> from foreign broadcasters
<mapps> skys garbage
<neuro> you're getting a raw feed, clearly
<SuperEngineer> Windows 8.1 update will finally bring back the Start menu -looks like even Microsoft have realise what users actually want.
<mapps> the tennis is REALLY bad though
<mapps> like
<mapps> bookies offer streaming free to punters on soccer/nba/horsies etc/tennis
<mapps> and thats faster than sky for soccer/tennis
<neuro> SuperEngineer: s/will finally bring/finally brought/ and it's not *the* Start menu
<neuro> mapps: ye cannae break the laws o' physics
<SuperEngineer> neuro: coorect - it's got proeet oiccies ofopen apps .. what a good idea... .........
<mapps> i went into hills on my way to sainsburys earlier and lol
<SuperEngineer> *piccies
<mapps> i always feel sorry fo them
<mapps> man and women..dunno if husband and wife
<mapps> sitting there betting on EVERY race like 5 quid a time
<mapps> even virtual racing
<mapps> that = addicts
<neuro> this is why i don't bet
<mapps> im bad for it tbh
<mapps> very bad
<mapps> betb50 quid..lose..now i want that 50
<mapps> even though at the time youre prepared to lose it kinda speak
<foobarry> i just accidentally invoked the windows key shortcuts screen. forgot about that, also HUD..never use
<smittix> Anyone have nVidia Optimus hardware?
<Azelphur> smittix: yup
<SuperEngineer> err herrmm; 'tis *not*  the windows key - 'tis the Super key
<davmor2> smittix: yes thanks
<smittix> davmor2: My battery life sucks.
<davmor2> smittix: yes
<foobarry> oh, copy.com has linux client, anyone used it?
<smittix> davmor2: 15 minutes and it's gone from 100% to 76%
<davmor2> smittix: Open nvidia-settings change the power mizer mode if that doesn't do anything change the Prime profile from nvidia to intel
<smittix> davmor2: I don't have the nVidia drivers installed, I just installed Bumblebee?
<davmor2> smittix: on what version of Ubuntu?
<smittix> 13.10
<smittix> What would you suggest I do?
<davmor2> smittix: not a lot I can suggest have a read on bumble bee docs site and see if there is way to make intel the default
<foobarry> how hard is this game 2048?
<foobarry> spent 10 mins playing and wondering if its a massive time sink
<smittix> davmor2: Ok, thanks anyway. Bumblebee seems to be working ok now. Battery is still rubbish though. I will have to live with it.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8i16eae5050qx8w/zelda.png
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> smittix: 14.04 and nvidia-prime might end up being better for you eventually
<daftykins> assuming your BIOS has no control over the graphics setup (often they don't)
<smittix> daftykins: That's good news then
<smittix> daftykins: Fingers crossed!
<smittix> I'm not too sure yet but I think I may have improved the battery life. It seems to be discharging a little slower.
<daftykins> yeah if you've got bumblebee active i think it keeps the nvidia chip off until you opti-run something
<daftykins> there may be even more ways to power it down completely, not sure
<smittix> I just did a cat /proc/acpi/bbswitch and it's off so looking good at the minute
<smittix> I have also set cpufreq to powersave.
<smittix> Right, I'm off to watch the last walking dead. Thank's for the info you guys.
<mapp> yo
<mapp> hmm keep getting cutoff now im with sky
<mapp> :|
<diddledan> https://plus.google.com/events/c1ah7qch7j1h0e6613v1c94grbs <-- vint cerf talking to leo laporte
<daftykins> argh that mic noise
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-03
<diddledan> *yawn*
<daftykins> yeah it's about that time
<jussi> and Im awake already :/
<jussi> 0655 WHYYYYY!!!????
<nigelb> jussi: that's late
<nigelb> also, good morning.
<jussi> nigelb: moaning...
<nigelb> jussi: TMI...
<jussi> hah!
<nigelb> :D
<diddledan> do the hippy shake!
<mapps> sheesh
<mapps> lent someone Â£200 and now hes begging he hadnt borowed it
<mapps> ffs
<mapps> he borowed it in a vasino
<jussi> mapps: was he drunk?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> hate lending people money
<mapps> still could be worse
<MartijnVdS> mapps: become a bank, get rich off it :P
<mapps> heh
<mapps> i was just worrying about getting anothe drink
<mapps> got work at 4pm ..7am now
<MartijnVdS> don't get another drink if you're worrying :)
 * mapps has drink problem
<mapps> heh
<MartijnVdS> mapps: realizing that is the first step :)
<mapps> yea well
<mapps> ive done that like 2000x
<smittix> Morning people
<bashrc> morning
<Myrtti> http://www.interactivezoo.eu/index.php?id=3 - have a look at the "Pesa kaamera"
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Find a Rainbow Day! :-D
 * DJones hums the tune for "Up above the streets and houses"
<foobarry> anyone tried using copy.com yet with the linux cilent, or thinking of getting an account?
<foobarry> PM me if you do. you get extra 5gb witha referral link
<jussi> bah... daily google gripe coming up...
<jussi> why is it impossible to sign one user out, instead of all of them when you use multiuser... grrr
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> *yawwn*
<bigcalm> Can one tell these Cisco phones about NTP?
<bigcalm> The thought of changing the time on it twice a year seems odd to me
<directhex> NTP isn't the issue, TZ is the issue
<directhex> NTP gives time in UTC
<bigcalm> Good point
<bigcalm> With both NTP and proper TZ info, I wouldn't have to set the time at all!
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> moo!
<directhex> the point is the phone needs to change TZ from GMT to GMT+1 and back again on specific dates
<directhex> so i made our polycoms do it rece ntly, but i don't know the syntax for cisco
<MartijnVdS> change the config, make all phones reboot, done :P
<directhex> it's 15 config settings on the polycoms
<directhex>         tcpIpApp.sntp.daylightSavings.start.dayOfWeek="1"
<directhex> etc
<bigcalm> If I had multiple desk phones to manage, then I'd invest time in making it happen. But as we have 1 desk phone per remote worker (3), not that fussed :)
<bigcalm> It's nice that they have a web interface
<bigcalm> My only grumble is that it takes up a fair patch of space of my desk
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> the old ones are the best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies
<bigcalm> diddledan: wow :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Poor Ron
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: I was just getting myself together to knock off and head up when hid email arrived didn't seem much point then :(
<diplo> Hope someone can help me whilst I google at the same time
<diplo> We have a lot of customers hosting email on mini itx boxes, I've resolved a few issues but as they are hosted on Business DSL lines we are getting marked as spam I expect because of no Reverse DNS
<MartijnVdS> likely
<MartijnVdS> or bad reverse dns
<diplo> As far as I am aware, I can contact the ISP to get tha tresolved as it's a business line
<MartijnVdS> owner of the IP block, but yes, most likely the isp
<diplo> So I get a received from domain.co.uk ( xx-xx-xx-dsl.in-addr.xxx.co.uk )
<diplo> I'm guessing the DSL shuld return domain.co.uk or should it return mail.domain.co.uk ?
<diplo> That's the bit I'm not clear on
<diplo> Only mail hosted on these boxes
<MartijnVdS> diplo: the reverse should match the forward
<MartijnVdS> diplo: so if they're named mail.domain.co.uk, make that the reverse
<diddledan> diplo: AFAICR the reverse dns for your IP should be the hostname of the box (as MartijnVdS says it needs to be matched with a forward record) which should also match what the smtp server says when it says EHLO
<diplo> Ah ok great thanks
<diplo> Just found the ISP's support site at last which allows me to do it via their portal it seems
<diplo> Hmm my issue is the linux box that sends these mails uses the mailserver SMTP but seems to have the HELO record from the linux box that is using that SMTP
<diplo> I think I need to play mroe
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Bah whatever I do it sends the HELO from the server I'm sending the mail from and not the SMTP server
<diddledan> I think chocolate is required
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's a permanent one imo
<diddledan> yeah, I could easily agree with that
<foobarry> eats chocolate orange and celebrations
<daftykins> :O share :(
<daftykins> actually don't share, i definitely wouldn't :D
<foobarry> minstrels too
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> diddledan: i'll distract him, you go for the goods...
<bigcalm> Anybody here using a Cisco 303 desk phone?
<daftykins> DJones: i like to think you pulled up in a car with flashing lights when you said 'stop' in #ubuntu :D
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> The phone rang so I couldn't continue with it
<daftykins> :)
<mapps> ah well
<mapps> friend lost 900 quid last night
<mapps> was almost in tears!
<mapps> every time we go out he barely leaves the blackjack table
<dwatkins> so it wasn't lost so much as gambled away?
<mapps> yep
<mapps> begged me to borrow 250 blows it
<dwatkins> still gutting, but not "it fell down a drain"
<mapps> withdraw 400 more then more at other casino
<mapps> everytime he does this barely leaves table
 * bigcalm shudders at gambling
<mapps> i have to mither him to get him to leave
<dwatkins> likewise, bigcalm
<dwatkins> I prefer to spend my money on shiny tech
<mapps> i spent years gambling
<dwatkins> also, I'm really good at getting addicted to things
<mapps> and yea..didnt realy do me any favours
<dwatkins> my current addiction is "solving problems", which fits in quite well with my job
<mapps> its a horrid feeling worrying about a 50 quid bill
<mapps> when you just blew thousands
<mapps> so stupid
<dwatkins> it makes all kinds of conversations difficult, though - I'm terrible at consoling people, I just want to fix their problems
<daftykins> you won't catch me even buying a lottery ticket
<dwatkins> same here
<dwatkins> I know the odds.
<dwatkins> Someone I know occasionally wins a tenner on the lottery, I just think of how much money he spends on tickets each year.
<bigcalm> Only place I might win money is on my NS&I bonds
<bigcalm> Either way, not losing money is the best feeling
<Laney> premium bonds?
<bigcalm> Yus
<bigcalm> I have Â£30k of them. Will find out at the beginning of May if I've 'won' any money
<Laney> you need to win ${inflation}% to not lose :P
<bigcalm> Yep
<Laney> to be fair my savings accounts barely manage that
<Laney> but at least you know what you're getting
<bigcalm> Indeed, same for us
<bigcalm> This way it's a bit of fun at the same time
<Laney> I cashed out my bonds because they got me naff all over 5 years
<Laney> wasn't worth the gamble
<Laney> didn't have 30k though, so not as much chance of getting lucky
<bigcalm> The money is in there ready for a mortgage deposit. This way we have a bit of fun in winning money
<bigcalm> We don't know when we'll need the mortgage deposit. But if it's soon, then they would have made bugger all interest in a normal savings account
<bigcalm> This way, there is a slight chance of winning Â£1m without losing anything
<dwatkins> you can take the money out at any time?
<bigcalm> Yes
<dwatkins> awesome
<bigcalm> But it has to be in for a full calendar month to be entered into the prise draw
<bigcalm> Â£30k is the maximum. So we have other money in normal ISA account
<dwatkins> hmmm, I need to know my account number to register
 * dwatkins e-mails a parent
<dwatkins> I had Â£100 in bonds many moons ago, perhaps there's still some paperwork in a drawer somewhere
<bigcalm> Registering for online account management means printing off a form and posting it to Glasgow!
<bigcalm> 7 day turn around on getting my login details
<bigcalm> Same turn around for a change of address. Though to a different address
<dwatkins> I can walk there quicker than that.
<ali1234> premium bonds used to be better than most savings accounts if you had the maximum amount (which just increased in the budget btw)
<bigcalm> Oh?
 * bigcalm goes to look
<ali1234> if you calculate the probability i mean, you used to get something like 5%
<ali1234> you need a lot to avoid variance though
<bigcalm> Website still says the maximum investment is Â£30k
<ali1234> i'm 75% sure they increased it in the budget though it might not have come in to effect yet
<popey> yeah, my dad had the max
 * bigcalm does more googling
<popey> was quite a tidy amount now and then in his retirement
<ali1234> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/savings/10708444/Budget-2014-NSandI-Premium-Bonds-limit-to-hit-50000-with-new-1m-prize.html
<bigcalm> http://www.nsandi.com/chancellor-announces-plans-nsi-2014-budget
<bigcalm> Wah, long way off
<ali1234> ISA limits have also been increased
<ali1234> or will be
<bigcalm> We're hoping that our house buying chain picks up speed and we'll be using our mortgage deposit sooner rather than later
<ali1234> you can get instant cash ISAs... they're not great though
<bigcalm> That said, it would still be nice to win something before we need to withdraw
<bigcalm> Yeah, we already have 2
<ali1234> i wish they'd outlawed the "no transfers" thing, it's really annoying
<MooDoo> evening all
<popey> Hello MooDoo !
<SuperEngineer> well, that's my Ubuntu 1 take take complete... thanks U1 - I'll miss you.
<SuperEngineer> *take down
<SuperEngineer> [though still wondering whether to delete purchased music on site... nah... can't be bothered... have fun listening guys and gals ;)l;kjll
<SuperEngineer> It helped being on leave, gave me the time to check & retrieve/delete -nice timing if they had to it i suppose.
<SuperEngineer> so now the choice... dropbox [recently hacked], spideroak [hmmm] others [no experience]...
<SuperEngineer> USB stick... weee my files are mine!
<SuperEngineer> But *will* miss the music store :(
<diddledan> ok, I have several computers. I want to maintain a list of known security issues related to any or all of them and have the ability to mark each system as patched individually as I get the job done. so it's a bi-directional list - each system is listed separately and each patch is listed separately and I want to mark each patch against each system depending on whether it's relevant, fixed, or still todo
<diddledan> the best I can come up with is creating a spreadsheet
<diddledan> does anyone know of a "better way"?
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: post-its?
<diddledan> hell no
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> [I have seen that done before - i gasped]
<popey> i use syncthing and dropbox
<popey> https://owncloud.com/blog/canonical-ubuntu-one-users-come-check-owncloud
<popey> â»
<diddledan> I've got owncloud running here, now, too
 * SuperEngineer hunts for old spreadsheet where this was carried out for over 50 machinesat a financial institution.... 
<SuperEngineer> darn - professionalism & integretity is somtimes annoying - not found - assumed deleted [or MIA if you prefer]
<webpigeon> Ubuntu one is getting eaten by the mists of time?
<bashrc> nomnomnom
<popey> ttp://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2014/04/03/s07e01-the-one-with-the-cat/
<popey> dammit
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2014/04/03/s07e01-the-one-with-the-cat/
<bigcalm> Studio L?
<popey> I know, right!?
<popey> we have so many studios!
<bigcalm> What do you do with them all?
<diddledan> russian pocast roulette
<diddledan> podcast*
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's the same studio the Letter is just the dimension it is in
<bigcalm> Library space eh?
<bigcalm> Right, lets try and get eth working on this laptop
<daftykins> \o/
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7200377
<bigcalm> Humf, it works now
<bigcalm> I wonder if a new driver was added to the kernel
<bigcalm> Right, lets try and get this switch working
<diddledan> I wonder what the other endpoint on pci address 3:00 is in addition to your realtek network
<diddledan> specifically 3:00.0 where your ethernet is 3:00.1
<daftykins> diddledan: perhaps some kind of intermediary PCI-E chip 0o
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<daftykins> wouldn't really make sense for a NIC chip to be non-native PCI-E by this time though eh 0o
<bigcalm> Oh good, it is working :)
<daftykins> just upgraded to the land of gigabit is it, bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> Sadly no
<diddledan> no giganuts?
<bigcalm> Just swapped out my router hub for a router switch
<diddledan> o_O
<bigcalm> Now have 8 ports for all my things instead of the 4 on the router hub
<bigcalm> Gone from Netgear WNDR3700v2 -> Netgear ProSafe Gigabit 8 Port VPN Firewall FVS318N
<daftykins> o rly
<daftykins> did you have DD/open-wrt on the former?
<bigcalm> open-wrt, yes
<bigcalm> I had that router because it has a USB port and I can share my phone's 3g connection via it to the LAN
<bigcalm> But I need more ethernet ports
<diddledan> moar ethernets
<daftykins> i'd have just got a switch ;)
<daftykins> as it is i go from a consumer router to a switch to cover all my gear \o/
<diddledan> less wallwarts!
<daftykins> guess so
<bigcalm> daftykins: the latter is a switch
<daftykins> oh right so you have done
<bigcalm> With lots of lovely routing and a rather slow web interface
<daftykins> haha
<diddledan> I have a decided lack of power sockets and I believe some of the occupied holes are faking it
<daftykins> i seem to have new neighbours now, not that they've introduced themselves. must check the wifi airways to see if they're encroaching on my channels D:
<diddledan> gerroff my airwaves!
<bigcalm> Looking at the "Known PCs and Devices" connected to the switch, there are 2 devices connected that I don't know what they are
<bigcalm> Which is confusing
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I love that
<daftykins> bigcalm: nmap's your friend
 * bigcalm goes to find out what the IP address of his wife's tablet is
<daftykins> two cheeky little dual-channel devices around here
<diddledan> I have currently reporting around 20-22 active IP addresses on my lans
<diddledan> that includes VMs tho
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> and mobiles
<daftykins> friends used to remark on how everything in my places talked to one another, heh
<daftykins> now pretty much everyone can do it
<diddledan> the internet of things hasn't happened yet for me though
<daftykins> no?
<MooDoo> evening
<daftykins> what exactly defines the borderline?
<daftykins> heya
<diddledan> I need IP ceiling lamps
<diddledan> when my illumination can perform a DoS on a government website then I'll accept that I've reached nirvana
<bigcalm> I've just seen a 3rd unknown device connect to the router
<bigcalm> Then the front door opened as my wife came home
<bigcalm> It'll be her phone :)
<diddledan> lol, advanced notice
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> tracking enabled
<bigcalm> This device is so bloody slow
<daftykins> is nobody as power-paranoid as i, turning wifi off when away from networks i trust?
<bigcalm> Argh
<daftykins> firmware update?
<bigcalm> Not of its own accord
<daftykins> nah i do it all manually
<daftykins> or do you mean auto firmware update?
<bigcalm> Oh, you're suggesting I should do a firmware update?
<daftykins> if one's available
<daftykins> with worthwhile features
<diddledan> which device?
<daftykins> there's no network device really, that i don't update prior to even configuring once
<diddledan> oh the router
<daftykins> tends to be turn on, update, factory reset, configure
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<bigcalm> I am here again :)
<daftykins> D:
<bigcalm> Updated the firmware. Routing stopped happening
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> i claim zero responsibility!
<bigcalm> Not sure what I've done to get it working. Might have been a case of waiting long enough for things to calm down
<daftykins> defaults changed i guess?
<bigcalm> It kept my settings prior to the firmware update
<daftykins> odd
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> Still here :)
<bigcalm> My laptop will no longer connect to the wifi
<bigcalm> Going to risk it and go to bed
<bigcalm> Toodles
<popey> â»
<popey> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-04
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5wez5ccbu23hfwf/IMG_20140404_022303.jpg
<mapps> morning
<jussi> o/
<mapps> cold and raining here..as ever
<mapps> ;)
<jussi> about -5 and clear blus skies here :)
<jussi> blue
<mapps> -5s quite cold;(
<jussi> nah, not for here. kinda normal :)
<jussi> its actually quite nice - very fresh feel when you go out. you just have to dress right...
<mapps> ah
<mapps> man workahlics is so funny
<brdude25> http://tiny.cc/status2
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> ugh... isc-dhcp-client seems broken in trusty
<bashrc> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<jussi> hrm, might be more relevant to dicuss this here : http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-373_en.htm?locale=en - good news methinks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Neelie is a totally awesome woman & politician; and I use awesome as it is supposed to be used.
<Myrtti> jussi: not sure if it's great news, apparently Finnish companies will raise the prices and stop offering unlimited data
<jussi> Myrtti: hrrr... that sounds actually horrible then
<Myrtti> either that, or they go bust and big multinational conglomerates take over
<Myrtti> buy the infra so they can offer roaming free of charge, because it's not really roaming
<Myrtti> yeah I suspect Finns have more to lose than gain, but other countries the situation might be different
<jussi> hrm, yeah - we do have a pretty nice system here at the moment
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a deal with Vodafone here. When I go abroad if I use data roaming they charge me Â£3 for that 24 hr period. The data limits are as my standard contract, e.g. per month total. Compared to how it used to be that is pretty good.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that sounds good.. I get a "35MB/day for â¬2/day" deal from Vodafone-NL whe I'm abroad
<MartijnVdS> I have a pay-as-you-go UK SIM to fix that and make it "several GB" ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good idea.
<Myrtti> jussi: sauce: http://yle.fi/uutiset/operaattorit_roaming-maksujen_poisto_nostaisi_liittymien_hintoja/7172904
<Myrtti> other option would be they'd cap the data abroad
<Myrtti> DPD is great
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: I live on vodafone passport for Â£3 a day I get the same allowance as back home.Unlmited
<TheOpenSourcerer> You "lowra" - How they pronounce Laura in Italy? czajkowski?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Should have been "Yo" not you.
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah
<TheOpenSourcerer> I love Rome. Fantastic city.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Wome?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I give up MartijnVdS
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can't type any more. Need a holiday.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: not had a chance to do any sight seeing yet
<czajkowski> yah Lowwwraaa
<czajkowski> lots of rolling of the letters :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh. Gosh am going on one TOMORROW :-D
<czajkowski> it's a bit cooler from what I cna tell today
<czajkowski> it was 21 yesterday
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lovely.
<czajkowski> 17 today and some thuder showers
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<jussi> I see a lemon merangue pie in my future :D
 * bigcalm drools a little
<jussi> Meringue even.
<jussi> bigcalm: its my birthday, its acceptable :)
<jussi> oh, on that note, HAPPY BIRTHDAY popey!!!!
<bigcalm> jussi: happy birthday to you and popey then :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happy birthdays.
<jussi> on the down side though, I have a mouth ulcer at the moment :/
<jussi> oh wow. this is cool! http://www.universetoday.com/110963/norwegian-skydiver-almost-gets-hit-by-falling-meteor-and-captures-it-on-film/#ixzz2xr4iO129
<bashrc> must be fake
<jussi> bashrc: don't think so
<jussi> âFireballs entering the atmosphere have been filmed many times,â says Morten Bilet in the video. Bilet is a meteorite expert. âThis is unique because it was filmed during its so called âdark flightâ â after it has been burned out. Thatâs never been done before so this is something new and exciting.â
<bigcalm> And unlikely to happen again
<MartijnVdS> Happy Popey-day! :)
<jussi> :(
<bashrc> nice
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Walk to Work Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: 40km each way?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, better get on your bike! :-P
<nigelb> Happy Birthday jussi, popey
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: hello...have a qusetion for u
<foobarry> u do full time coding? c++ ?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: ask away
<foobarry> ^^
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: i am interviewing c++ codes atm and wondered if the questiosn were too hard
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I have no idea about C++; to me all questions are too hard :)
<bigcalm> Right, I need help with this router/switch/firewall of mine. Same one as before. Trying to use it again as I need the extra ports.
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: woops, i misremembered, sorry
<bigcalm> Office365 IMAP is not working in Thunderbird. This is not machine specific as my laptop has the same problem
<bigcalm> Where can we start looking?
<foobarry> is there anyone who has done plenty c++ that frequents this chan?
<foobarry> bigcalm: i "use" TB and IMP and o365
<foobarry> shared folders do not work
<foobarry> did it work yesterday and break today?
<bigcalm> foobarry: it worked just fine with my previous router. It doesn't work with this new one
<bigcalm> No, it's never worked with this router
<foobarry> its not just o365 being lame?
<foobarry> oh
<bigcalm> No
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Errors in the TB Error Console?
<bigcalm> As far as I can tell, it's the only thing that doesn't work
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: I didn't know TB had one
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tools -> Error Console
<bigcalm> Nothing is showing in the error console
<bigcalm> When I lick on a folder (including inbox) within the o365 account, TB shows the OSN 'Failed to connect to server ...'
<foobarry> don't lick folders
<bigcalm> Aww, maybe that's the issue
<foobarry> tried using geary mail to test?
<bigcalm> No, I'll have a look
<bigcalm> Please wait while Geary validates your account.
<bigcalm> I have a sneaking suspicion that it'll sit on this screen for a very long time
<bigcalm> Thankfully my mobile is able to connect as an exchange account
<bigcalm> And the web interface works
<bigcalm> Still waiting
<bigcalm> What else might I look at in the mean time?
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7202411/
<bigcalm> Geary finally gave up with: "IMAP connection error." and "SMTP connection error."
<bigcalm> If I ssh to my bytemark VPS, I can then telnet to outlook.office365.com 993
<bigcalm> I can't even do mtr outlook.office365.com
<popey> thanks for the birthday wishes! :D
<bigcalm> popey: how young are you now?
<popey> Best age.
<popey> 42
 * popey goes outside to fly is new quadcopter :D
<popey> ttfn
<bigcalm> Sweet
<foobarry> Could not find gem 'liquid (~> 2.4.1) ruby' in the gems available on this machine. (Bundler::GemNotFound)
<foobarry> i've done sudo gem install liquid but still no joy, any ideas?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<jussi> where is christel when you need her... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=66d_1394803929#d0fagfg4svVvQD9H.01 :D
<dwatkins> I don't see what's special about that, although they did laugh a lot.
<ali1234> well that they find him amusing probably indicates they don't have to deal with 20 people like that every night
<ali1234> it would get old fast
<dwatkins> indeed, ali1234
<MooDoo> hello all
<BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
<MooDoo> morning BigRedS
<MooDoo> brobostigon: belated, morning
<BigRedS> MooDoo Ah, morning! How's things?
<MooDoo> BigRedS: yeah ok thanks, everything running trusty with no issues, all going ok at the moment :D
<MooDoo> you?
<BigRedS> Not bad; I've dropped in at my mum's to work today 'cause I miss the cats
<BigRedS> so I'm probably not getting any work done today
<BigRedS> there's cat hair *everywhere*
<MooDoo> lol
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: it's friday I'm at home so ok :D
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<jussi> any skateboard peoples here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm8kb3kQ3co :D
<MooDoo> that's not a skateboard lol
<jussi> MooDoo: :D
<bigcalm> I need to go out and buy an 8 port unmanaged switch today. Which of these do people rate? http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/search-keywords/xx_xx_xx_xx_xx/8+port+switch/xx-criteria.html
<BigRedS> I'd assumed that's the sort of thing people don't really get wrong any more
<BigRedS> (but I'd generally default to netgear, though I've not been very near commodity kit for a few years)
<MooDoo> yeah I'm with netgear, although my new router is asus
<davmor2> Something for the weekend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk5zxA9UP2Q
<bigcalm> I'm having such an annoying time with this netgear firewall switch router thing, that I'm going to go back to my previous netgear router that _works_ and give myself more ports by plugging in an unmanaged switch
<bigcalm> davmor2: 2 chellos, 1 bow?
<davmor2> bigcalm: there is 2cellos play 1 cello
<davmor2> but this is a full concert that they did voodoo people is gob smacking
<MooDoo> davmor2: I like that acdc song they did
<davmor2> MooDoo: this is the full concert there are some amazing covers in it :)
<jussi> so, "poverty is a great inventor" is quite true sometimes
<jussi> I had some leftover lasagne sheets (we pre boil them a bit to make making lasagne faster). the made layers with them, cheese, sliced processed ham, some spices and herbs and whacked it in the oven. worked suprisingly well
<jussi> I should share this with you all as well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts#t=24 - bringing back a 90's classic :D
<MartijnVdS> jussi: in your head.
<jussi> MartijnVdS: Zombie!
<foobarry> brendan eich has a very strong lens in the left eye of his glasses
<MartijnVdS> lens.. or scope?
<davmor2> jussi: only if we can have this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwlogyj7nFE
 * foobarry is being awesome with redmine
<MartijnVdS> redmine? is that where you mine redstone?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> *no
<BigRedS> My opinion of redmine's changed a bit recently. I think it's the acceptable face of RoR stuff now
<foobarry> i installed the crm plugins and calendar ics export
<foobarry> turning the awesome up to 11
<SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26887186#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa  [lostforwords]
<mapps> so 3 ip changes in a week
<mapps> pesky sky...and it seems to be disconnecting a lot
<daftykins> yet another round of daftykins pics are here...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t9k926qw7iq5pp5/UTKUzmXzQN
<daftykins> this time, it's two of Condor's ferries, one coming into the harbour and spinning around to dock :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: nice
<MartijnVdS> better weather than last time too
<daftykins> :) was about 12-14 deg C today
<popey> Evening all!
<bigcalm> Morning popey
<bigcalm> popey: good birthday?
<popey> Ya!
<popey> toys to play with
<popey> always a winner
<bigcalm> Toys are fun :)
<popey> ya!
<bigcalm> Time to drive to the parents' for the weekend
<bigcalm> Toodles
<popey> o/
<davmor2> popey: hippo birdy dude
<davmor2> popey: don't look at the click store
<davmor2> popey: infact you can now
<popey> davmor2: eh?
<popey> davmor2: i approved music..
<davmor2> no popey they had a roll out and managed to not spot that they had synced the db from staging to production oops :)
<davmor2> popey: fixed now though :)
<popey> hahah
<popey> plums
<diplo> evening all
<daftykins> hi diplo
<davmor2> popey: this is why rollouts on a friday are a bad thing right :)
<foobarry> on read-only friday?
<foobarry> nationwidebank utter fail tonight
<daftykins> foobarry: ooh?
<foobarry> keeps showing error messages randomly
<foobarry> general error
<foobarry> must be cos it's ISA night
<foobarry> how do the card readers work?
<foobarry> bit like rsa tokens?
<daftykins> varies so much between banks
<daftykins> the natwest ones i have just apply the same process after checking PIN
<daftykins> whereas friends with HSBC can only login using theirs
<diddledan> windows phone's cortana looks pretty nifty
<diddledan> I feel dirty saying that though
<diddledan> in other news, halo's cortana is sexy
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-05
<mapps> morning
<diddledan> allo map
<diddledan> mapppps:
<diddledan> mapps:
<diddledan> damned tab
<mapps> time for me to watch suits
<mapps> hey diddledan
<mapps> still up..or just woken up?
<diddledan> still up :-)
<mapps> been upto much mate?
<diddledan> not really..
<diddledan> (I'm a boring git :-p)
<mapps> lol not even watching films or tv just sitting there?:D
<mapps> or doing linux stuff?:)
<diddledan> watched looper earlier when I couldn't get the microsoft build keynote to play
<mapps> and uve been up all night..pff
<mapps> enjoy looper?
<mapps> i seem to recall it was ok but cant remember too much of it
<diddledan> yeah it was not bad. seemed a bit slow in places though
<mapps> not too hard to sleep duing day atm...its when it gets light early its tough
<mapps> :)
<foobarry> morning
<Guest74622> morning
<foobarry> just completed a paidsurvey that i think was doneby microsoft. but rate all a load of brands together. MS kept performing poorly ..
<bashrc> morning
<feisar> morning mrjelly
<feisar> mrjelly: heya
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<foobarry> nhs pays MS Â£5.5M for 1yr of XP updates :(
<brobostigon> ouch.
<brobostigon> XP is EOL anyways, so will save some money.
<foobarry> save how?
<brobostigon> that Â£5.5mil can be spent on something more useful.
<foobarry> they are paying 5M for the updates for 1yr after EOL
<brobostigon> i see, wow.
<foobarry> and again the next yr after no progress is made
<foobarry> then MS will migrate them to win8/9
<foobarry> actually in that cost is also office2003 updates :(
<foobarry> http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240217389/Government-signs-55m-Microsoft-deal-to-extend-Windows-XP-support
<brobostigon> so by that point, the nhs will be almost 15 years behind.
<foobarry> i know how this works
<foobarry> as i see similar fail in other large corps
<brobostigon> ah.
<MartijnVdS> it's all "we need a single platform for everyone" + "IT is a one-time cost right?"
<brobostigon> lol.
<foobarry> more like, get an army of project manager
<foobarry> 2x or 3x the amount of actual techies
<foobarry> produce loads of docs sourced from gartner and other such sites
<popey> \o/ new nipples arrived
<foobarry> :-|
<popey> https://twitter.com/popey/status/452393890494943232
<popey> all installed and much better already
<foobarry> pleased to see my new dell laptop has a nice nipple
<popey> blue recessed one?
<foobarry> yes. thinkpad rough one made me shiver
<popey> hah
<foobarry> rubber is better than rough red
<foobarry> i think the e7440 will be a popular model
<foobarry> just tried to throw a bucket of water over the back fence which had a dead bird in it for a week
<foobarry> ...somehow threw the water (and bird i think) all over me
<popey> foobarry: good work
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> not my finest moment
<foobarry> all clothes except pants came off me before entering the house
<foobarry> then gargle with mouthwash and took a shower
<foobarry> "Really, Windows is more free than Android, since nearly every Android device-maker has to pay a patent license fee to Microsoft. "
<foobarry> wow. just wow.
<foobarry> did they really write that?
<philwyett> foobarry: Look on the bright side. Least you had a bird make you strip on a Saturday morning. Not many others in here can say that. :-D
<foobarry> lol
<MartijnVdS> Something is weird
<MartijnVdS> Using joystick Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600 with 37 axes, 57 buttons and 0 hat(s)
<MooDoo> hellooooo
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<popey> moo
<brobostigon> Doo
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> you're all mad, mad I tell you
<dwatkins> ...and that's how we roll.
<MooDoo> :)
<ole__> help
<ole__> nick  oz7t
<oz7t> working with ubuntu 13.10
<oz7t> NICK ole_oz7t
<oz7t> no people then i can test here
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-06
<mapps> morning
<daftykins> heya
<mapps> still up i assume..not just woken up/:p
<daftykins> yep, watching a film in a chan with US'ians
<daftykins> "Surrogates" with Bruce Willis
<mapps> ah seen it
<mapps> iirc was quite good
<mapps> that that chan you told me of before?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> ##club-nomicon the land of 24/7 nattering
<daftykins> may not be so good whilst we're all annotating the film though :>
<mapps> :)
<twager> <brobostigon> 8c outside here, which for this time of the year, is good.
<twager> <foobarry> the bigger story that they might make their own chips
<twager> <shauno> this steamos stuff has me thinking about building a htpc all over again
<twager> * ashcan_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
<twager> * penguin42 (~dg@cpc24-salf5-2-0-cust195.10-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #ubuntu-uk
<twager> <foobarry> what hardware shauno ?
<twager> <shauno> I have no idea yet.  that's the fun bit :)
<twager> <foobarry> i have a pvr ..bit limited in that it is not internet connected, but lot less hassle and wife friendly/join #test
<twager> <shauno> I have an appletv atm, that's been xbmc'd up the wazoo.  it's nice & tidy but a bit tired
<twager> <shauno> although most m
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> you appear to have pasted something
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> how's things?
<brobostigon> half asleep, and you?
<SuperMatt> hungover -.-
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<SuperMatt> yeah, well if I'm going to be out till 4.30, it's my own fault
<brobostigon> exactly. self-inflicted.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
 * popey wonders if shauno or neuro are about for osx related questions
<neuro> i is watching last night's saturday night live
<neuro> but i is answerable for questionisting
<popey> coolio
<popey> For when they return: I have an iMac running OSX 10.7.5 with 320GB disk which is ~full. I have bought a 2TB drive and tools to replace said drive, and a backup of the 320GB on an external 1TB USB disk.
<popey> What's the best way to migrate from the 320GB internal to a new 2TB internal disk?
<neuro> http://www.bombich.com/
<neuro> download carbon copy cloner from there
<neuro> plug new drive in over usb
<neuro> clone 320gb -> 2tb
<neuro> switch off mac
<neuro> swap drives
<neuro> turn on mac
<popey> hmm
<popey> will it make the partition bigger on the 2tb?
 * penguin42 would partition and dd stuff
<penguin42> but then that's the way I swing
<popey> need to find my external drive enclosure. wish I'd bought one of those ones where you just slot the drive in and don't have screws etc
<penguin42> well, no one says you have to put the screws in
<popey> well, you know what i mean
<popey> something less fiddly
 * penguin42 was copying a drive over iSCSI on Friday, not that hard one you persuade the thing to auth
<foobarry> i hate chap
<penguin42> indeed, although I was using it on my local network so I was just turning all auth off
<foobarry> can i run TRIM on my sdcard for my phone and put it back in to make it work better?
<ali1234> no, because SD cards don't support TRIM
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> something about my phone storage is mega slow now
<popey> can you run stuff like iotop to see whats eating it?
<leon> hello? need some 'elp please
<Guest67518> hello?
<penguin42> youtube seems to have gone all https
<penguin42> doesn't seem all that happy
<foobarry> looking for a good 8 bit wario to make out of hama
<foobarry> wario didn't  seem to be on any nes games
<ali1234> wario was on gameboy though, and that was 8 bit
<ali1234> "He first appeared in the 1992 Game Boy title Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins"
<popey> not in enough colour for hamma beads to be fun
<ali1234> i think people forget how crappy 8 bit actually was
<ali1234> generally they mean 16 bit :)
<ali1234> sometimes 32-bit
<foobarry> i'm thinking http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/10592138/
<dwatkins> Did someone say Game Boy? http://www.neatoshop.com/product/Gamer-Boy
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<penguin42> anyone else seeing problems with google the last couple of days - I suspect it's they seem to have gone all https, youtube is taking a while to open, but once opened it seems ok; the firefox search is generally not working
<foobarry> nope
<penguin42> maybe the problem is Virgin
<foobarry> need to get my stuff off ubuntu one before i forget
<mapps> gah
<mapps> a new ip again
<mapps> sky sucks
<directhex> anyone want a cd stereo system thingy?
<directhex> free to a good home. or a bad one, i don't care
<daftykins> wow VPNs can get messy
<BigRedS> haha
<daftykins> there's a plymouth uni student asking about them in #ubuntu
<daftykins> only he gets some crazy networks when he connects
<diddledan> http://g.bwlh.at/mJEEaRU1VW zoom out a bit
<diddledan> VPNs _should_ be simple
<diddledan> (once configged)
<daftykins> up for a challenge diddledan? :)
<daftykins> jamieshepherd_: are you ok with some of your pastebin's being repasted here?
<jamieshepherd_> Yeah no problem
<jamieshepherd_> Just need to get it sorted before I sleep so ;D
<daftykins> lol, before you say, deadlines looming is it?
<jamieshepherd_> Well I'm meant to be building the 3rd app tomorrow so
<jamieshepherd_> Would like to stay on target :p
<daftykins> so jamie's trying to connect with a server in a data centre somewhere (i've also recommended setting up an ubuntu server VM) to his university VPN in order to get working on a webapp that needs to talk to a database hosted on the network there
<jamieshepherd_> You explained that much better than I did too
<jamieshepherd_> :D
<daftykins> the last thing he was following was the lovely and up to date (not) command line guide with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN
<daftykins> s/with/from/
<daftykins> i personally am going loopy over the networks he's getting presented with when connecting (from Windows as a test)
<daftykins> i was expecting to see a simple you are x.x.x.2 and the gateway is x.x.x.1
<daftykins> but instead he has - http://paste.ubuntu.com/7214030/
<daftykins> for reference his ipconfig on said windows box is http://paste.ubuntu.com/7214048/
<daftykins> so the PPP adapter has the IP 141.163.192.215
<daftykins> yet the Windows routing table refers to a 192.168.192.215!?
<daftykins> the two last octets match, with has me raising an eyebrow
<diddledan> I don't see that ip
<daftykins> well it's a gateway listed in the routing table
<daftykins>  141.163.0.0      255.255.0.0  192.168.192.215  141.163.192.215     11
<diddledan> aah yes
<daftykins> i mean where in the *beep* does that come from O_O
<diddledan> I would guess that's the PtP address
<daftykins> i was thinking he would need to edit "/etc/ppp/ip-up.d/add-subnet" to contain something like:
<daftykins> route add -net 141.163.192. <but what here!?>/32 dev $PPP_IFACE
<daftykins> or maybe it doesn't? i think i'm too newb for this one
<diddledan> ppp _should_ autoconfigure
<diddledan> for basic routing you don't need to add a custom config
<daftykins> so maybe just connect and see what happens?
<diddledan> bingo
<jamieshepherd_> If I just use pon plymuni though, I can't view web pages which are under the network :o
<jamieshepherd_> Or ping them
<daftykins> also, as it's in a data centre how do you sort the ^ DNS and gateway issues without trashing that server's own internet connectivity 0o
<jamieshepherd_> But strangely the logs show that a connection has been made... ifconfig shows an adapter...
<diddledan> you need to add "nodefaultroute" to the config to prevent the internet connection from being subverted
<jamieshepherd_> Oh that's interesting
<diddledan> hmm, maybe you do need to add a route for networks on the other side - I thought that was configured by the pppd
<daftykins> diddledan: then as he needs to rely upon the department DNS to resolve department servers, how do you cheat that into the mix 0o i had a dirty hack idea of looking up the IPs from the windows connection, then just hardcoding them
<daftykins> that'll need the route(s) in place if it's not obvious though of course
<jamieshepherd_> I honestly had no idea VPN from ubuntu server was such a hard thing to do
<diddledan> an example config suggests you don't need to add a gateway ip: route add -net 192.168.10.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 dev ppp0
<jamieshepherd_> It seems ridiculous that I can literally do it in 2 clicks on W8 :(
<diddledan> jamieshepherd_: you can do it on ubuntu in 2 clicks if you have network manager and a gui installed
<jamieshepherd_> Yeah my laptop is running ubuntu desktop
<jamieshepherd_> Just a little upset that there isn't some program where you "vpn connection.com username password" and done :p
<daftykins> so i guess install a desktop ubuntu wherever you want to develop your web app from?
<daftykins> hehe yeah
<BigRedS> It's not *that* hard with no GUI is it? It's been years since I last looked at it, but I thought the default config mostly worked
<daftykins> BigRedS: but surely if you replace your default gateway and DNS servers to make web traffic go over the VPN, you trash the internet connection allowing you to connect to said VPN in the first place
<jamieshepherd_> I mean, to me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7214258/ - This tells me that I connected to the VPN, authenticated
<jamieshepherd_> But when I ping an address, or try to load a page that is within the University firewall (which works on Windows) - I get nothing, no response, no web page
<jamieshepherd_> If I can't get anything, then I won't be able to access the database which is also under the Uni's network
<jamieshepherd_> Which is why I thought it MUST be a routing issue
<daftykins> oh there you go, local 141, remote 192
<daftykins> how did i not see this before
<daftykins> so if you ping 141.163... you should get <1ms replies
<jamieshepherd_> 141.163.192.210 this?
<daftykins> and if you ping 192.168... you should get broadband latency kind of replies
<daftykins> yep
<jamieshepherd_> Yes, <1ms for top
<diddledan> jamieshepherd_: without changing any config - so with it connected but unable to get the remote servers, try running "route add -net <uni subnet> netmask <uni netmask> dev ppp0"
<jamieshepherd_> ~15ms for 192
<jamieshepherd_> I'm sorry diddledan , you're going to have to excuse my ignorance
<jamieshepherd_> But which values are the subnet + netmast
<jamieshepherd_> mask
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> from windows it looks like it's subnet of "141.163.0.0" and netmask of "255.255.0.0"
<jamieshepherd_> without quotation marks, I'm assuming? (eli5)
<diddledan> yeah the full command will be as the next message I'm going to send
<diddledan> route add -net 141.163.0.0 netmask 255.255.0.0 dev ppp0
<jamieshepherd_> oh shit
<jamieshepherd_> I'm getting pings
<jamieshepherd_> OH SHIT
<diddledan> provided the uni don't change their ip range that should work with any vpn connection no matter what your local and remote ip assignments happen to be
<jamieshepherd_> I'M SEEING RESULTS
<diddledan> in which case add the command to the file daftykins suggested earlier
<diddledan> : /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/add-subnet
<jamieshepherd_> Ho Shit
<jamieshepherd_> I think that's it
<jamieshepherd_> ok so throw that command ni add-subnet
<jamieshepherd_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7214138/
<jamieshepherd_> to replace the bottom line?
<daftykins> diddledan: are you sure it's a /16 ?
<diddledan> yeah, you should use the $PPP_IFACE instead of ppp0 because that will act as a replacement for whichever pppX it happens to become - it isn't always ppp0 if you have more vpn connections
<diddledan> daftykins: according to the windows routing table it is
<daftykins> mm-hmm
<daftykins> anyway i must go find food
<daftykins> at 10pm.
<daftykins> bad dafty.
<jamieshepherd_> daftykins, thank you so much for your help
<jamieshepherd_> diddledan, thank you so much for your help
<jamieshepherd_> =))))))))))))))))))))
<diddledan> and according to whois, also
<jamieshepherd_> You're both really awesome people! =D
<diddledan> route:          141.163.0.0/16
<diddledan> descr:          The University of Plymouth
<jamieshepherd_> Thank you for taking the time =)
<diddledan> no problem
<daftykins> is it working :O
<jamieshepherd_> Yes!! =))
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> surely it doesn't resolve the server name to the IP still though?
<jamieshepherd_> Who knows
<jamieshepherd_> All I know is it works
<jamieshepherd_> And I'm over the moon :D
<jamieshepherd_> <3 daftykins =)
<jamieshepherd_> Works on production too and doesn't affect my other sites
<jamieshepherd_> So super good news
<popey> neuro: shauno should I upgrade my 2009 imac 2.x GHz C2D NVidia thing with 2TB SSD/HDD hybrid to mavericks?
<daftykins> popey: my clients runs it well enough, though startup and shutdown aren't as good as SL was
<neuro> popey: if it's compatible, definitely
<neuro> popey: also my instructions for disk cloneage earlier were a bit light on info
<neuro> you plug in your new drive via usb and partition it manually using disk utility
<neuro> then you can partition it however you like
<neuro> carbon copy cloner will detect it's an empty drive and offer the chance to copy over the recovery partition
<neuro> since you point CCC at a partition, not a whole disk
<popey> yes, its running now
<popey> thanks chaps
<neuro> also bear in mind disk utility can grow and shrink hfs+ partitions quite happily on the fly
<popey> looks like it will take all night then when I get a chance I will swap disks tomorrow.
<neuro> yeah, it'll take ages
<neuro> longer if there's a ton of small files
<neuro> it's basically running rsync under the hood
<neuro> with some other stuff doing the appropriate part shrink stuff to fit the recovery partition, and then later stuff to bless the partition properly with boot flags etc
<neuro> i've used it a few times in the past but most recently on thursday when I upgraded my 13" mbp's 320GB HDD to a samsung evo 1TB SSD
<popey> right, its done 200GB in 2 hours 47 mins
<neuro> goes like the proverbial clappers
<neuro> sounds about right
<neuro> i blatted a ton of email before i did it
<popey> need to re-find the ifixit guide
<neuro> since it would have taken aaaaages
<popey> http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+20-Inch+EMC+2266+Hard+Drive+Replacement/919 looks like the one
<neuro> you can double check your model number with this: http://mactracker.ca/
<neuro> very very cute app
<neuro> you need to take the screen off to replace the hdd? yikes
<daftykins> hmm what was the one i used
<daftykins> SuperDuper! i think
<neuro> yeah, that's another option
<neuro> i suggested CCC purely on personal experience :)
<daftykins> i had a weird issue where i couldn't get the iMac to boot install media for the new SSD, so i had to clone in the end
<daftykins> i think it turns out that hitting the boot device key is a bit flaky on wireless keyboards
<daftykins> or maybe i was foolishly trying to do it prior to the boot tone back then... who knows :>
<popey> bet my drive doesnt have a sensor connector
<popey> so will osx complain about the drive?
<neuro> a sensor connector?
<neuro> oh right
<neuro> MBPs get temp data over the sata bus, so not sure why a desktop mac should need that
<neuro> although from that photo it looks like they are just wires taped to the drive
<neuro> yeah, keep reading
<neuro> the sensor is something that apple apply at the factory
<neuro> it's not part of the drive, per se
<popey> oh the sensor connector is the other end
<popey> not the drive end
<neuro> yarp
<popey> step 13
<popey> got it
<neuro> yeah but look at step 20
<neuro> sorry, 19
<neuro> the sensor sits in an adhesive bracket
<neuro> you remove the drive end of the sensor from the bracket
<neuro> then you remove the bracket
<neuro> it's just a wire resting on the drive itself measuring the external temp of the chassis
<popey> yeah
<popey> got it
<neuro> "see the whole board" :)
<popey> i even have a plastic spudger â»
<neuro> woo
<popey> this will be the final upgrade for that machine, it's lasted well
<daftykins> popey: what kind of drive did you get in the end?
<daftykins> i found a free program to override the fan speeds btw to take care of not being able to connect the temperature probe
<daftykins> there are pay-for ones that are a bit better at reading live temperatures from SMART data and setting appropriately
<daftykins> without doing anything her iMac would sound like a hoover
<popey> daftykins: a 2tb hybrid
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ELAVI3I/
<daftykins> ooh neat
<diddledan> I wish those hybrids had more flash than they currently do
<daftykins> flash... aah-aaaah!
<diddledan> it'll eventually be the saviour of the univerve
<diddledan> s*
<shauno> I'm curious to try ssd+hdd with the hybrid stuff in the OS.  but I'll never get around to it because I'm too lazy
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> SATA Express is looking to be a messy implementation =/
<daftykins> no standardised cables i think i read
<diddledan> I've not heard of SATAe
 * diddledan googles
<shauno> google is full of lies tonight :/
<diddledan> weird, combo of sata and pci-e?!
<daftykins> diddledan: http://anandtech.com/show/7843/testing-sata-express-with-asus
<popey> I do hope this drive is faster than the 320GB that shipped with the machine
<popey> be disappointed if it isn't
<popey> also, this does mean I now need to get a bigger disk to backup on to â¨
<daftykins> it'd be impossible not to be! :)
<popey> also hope mavericks doesn't make it slower
<shauno> backup requirements are a function of how much you're backing up, not how big the source disk is, surely?
<daftykins> perhaps popey will download all the things now
<neuro> popey: you'll probably find with memory compression, it'll swap less, and ergo run faster
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/joryeyajp6afefg/Screenshot%202014-04-07%2000.03.46.png
<shauno> if you use a second screen, you won't care about speed, you'll be so happy that it finally isn't braindead
<diddledan> shauno: you can turn the braindead mode back on
<diddledan> shauno: X11 doesn't play nicely with the non-braindead
<diddledan> so either X11 sanity + braindead multimonitor, or X11 braindeadedness + multimonitor sanity
<shauno> luckily I live in 2014, so I don't have to worry about X11 often
<diddledan> I think it's because the X11 is just a rootless window meaning that it can only occupy one monitor in the non-breadead mavericks way
<diddledan> e.g. the same way that one window can't exist between screens when dragged half-way
<popey> shauno: i think it's pretty obvious that given my 320GB disk is full and I'm putting a bigger disk in it, I'm going to use more
<diddledan> I need a bigger thingy, too
<diddledan> ethinky
<diddledan> thingy*
<diddledan> ethingy*
<neuro> FAMILY CHANNEL!
<popey> â»
<popey> not sure how much it swaps at the moment
<popey> it has 8GB
<neuro> activity monitor should be able to tell you
<neuro> mavericks is actually really aggressive about not swapping
<neuro> it'll compress memory, it'll sacrifice cache, it'll purge unused app memory
<diddledan> weirdly the mbp retina ethingy is a half-width sata card with no case but it's mounted in what looks to be a standard sata 2.5in hole
<neuro> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/10/os-x-10-9/17/#compressed-memory
<neuro> siracusa mentions it in his review
<shauno> popey, it should handle it by just saving less historical backups.  whether you end up needing bigger backups is up to your own usage
<neuro> "In fact, Mavericks seems fairly terrified of the swap file" :)
<popey> shauno: i think you're stepping into the realms of stating the bleeding obvious
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> hehe
<neuro> popey: 2TB externals are pretty cheap these days
<neuro> i picked up a USB2/3 WD My Passport for Mac 2TB today for 120 quid
<popey> blimey, so they are
<neuro> and i know that was expensive (Maplins)
<neuro> you can get a standard passport or elements for about 80-90 quid
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-STBV2000200-Expansion-Desktop-Drive monolith
<popey> er http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-STBV2000200-Expansion-Desktop-Drive/dp/B0084LZI5Y/
<neuro> i personally wouldn't buy seagate externals if you paid me
<neuro> but that's just me
<popey> meh
<neuro> time machine makes disk usage look weird anyway
<neuro> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4zlri4ogu9t68n/Screenshot%202014-04-07%2000.18.25.png
<neuro> 21.86TB used on a 2TB drive with 310GB available
<neuro> (yes, i know how it works)
<daftykins> i could go in and nuke my clients' old snow leopard TM backups now
<diddledan> that's why you get-info on the drive, not the folder
<daftykins> but then they're not doing too much harm just sat there
<neuro> diddledan: NO, REALLY?!??!
<neuro> :)
<popey> right, bedlington, thanks for the help and avice chaps. ttfn
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<daftykins> our pleasure as always i'm sure
<shauno> my head is just not working tonight.  trying to use an ide cable as a breakout on a pi, and failing at spatial awareness so hard
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> ever have one of those days every couple of years where anything computery you touch is destroyed?
<daftykins> i just have to go outside on said days
<daftykins> can't go to an ATM, not after the incident.
<Altair> Hello! I would like to know how long it should take to download and install the wireless drivers for Broadcom on Ubuntu 12.04
<Altair> Anyone there?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-30
<mapps> still stuck with proxypass
<mapps> gah this is so annoying
<mapps> tried proxypass with ajaxterm and same thing
<mapps> really got no idea what im doing wrong ;(
<knightwise> morning peeps
<daftykins> g'morn
<knightwise> hey daftykins
<knightwise> how are you this morning
<daftykins> not too shabby ta, and thee?
<daftykins> just debating what to do with myself :D
<knightwise> im ok , started the work week as usual :)
<knightwise> been trying out the new 15.04 release in a VM but I can't get it working properly somehow
<knightwise> after i log in ... i just keep seeing the login manager .. nothing more
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> which virt tech?
<knightwise> virtbox
<daftykins> perhaps it's worth a dist-upgrade at a TTY if you can get one?
<knightwise> so do a 14.04 and then do a dist upgrade ?
<daftykins> nah "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" in the 15.04 VM
<daftykins> presumably you had 3D acceleration enabled too?
<daftykins> despite the name dist-upgrade just gets the latest of all packages
<knightwise> ok , i'll check
<knightwise> so this is going to be the distro where we can switch from the touch interface to the windowed interface .. right ?
<daftykins> pass :D
<daftykins> i don't even use desktop
<knightwise> because this would be the ultimate thing to use on my Surface pro
<knightwise> touch in tablet mode
<knightwise> windowed when connecting the keyboard/mouse
<daftykins> i found it a tad surprising people buying those and expecting to use Ubuntu
<knightwise> mine works perfectly on 14.04
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> MooDoo: have you played with the touch interface in 15.04 yet ?
<knightwise> i just installed it in a VM and I would like to see how to enable the touch interface
<MooDoo> knightwise: no don't have anything touch capable
<knightwise> I was thinking of installing it on my Surface pro :)
<knightwise> looking forward to using the combo of touch interface / windowed interface on that machine
<MooDoo> knightwise: should be ok on a surface, i'm just not keen on touch in general
<knightwise> But do you get the option to switch between the touch/windowed interface in 15.04 or is that only for the phone versions of the OS , (its very confusing at the moment)
<knightwise> so : without a keyboard/mouse = Ubuntu phone interface with scopes and stuff ... WITH mouse connected : Windowed interface ?
<MooDoo> hmmm interesting though
<knightwise> in other words : can i do THIS on my surface https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KNRzdeUaC4
<daftykins> that guy needed his morning coffee before recording that ;)
<knightwise> agreed , however .. is this what you can do when you download the latest beta ?
<daftykins> the key part i get from that vid is he downloaded 'ubuntu next desktop'
<daftykins> er Desktop Next rather
<DJones> Morning all
<daftykins> which sounds like an alternative image to standard desktop, but i'm not the best person to comment at all
<daftykins> mornin' \o
<DJones> popey: bigcalm: Might find this interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32051153
<DJones> Jolyon Jenkins presents Minecraft: More Than A Game on BBC Radio 4 at 11:00 BST, 30 March 2015
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka did you get the leaving managers job is that why you kept going on about it ?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no don't think he's being replaced, sticking with what we have, and kept going on about it as was winding him up calling him a splitter :D
<bashrc_> g'day
<daftykins> hi
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2: :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: I did exactly the same thing to Bacon, I change my person nick for him from Loserboy to Leaverboy not sure which wound him up more ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: cool :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: well it Jono there was no way I was gonna be nice was there ;) First he splits LR then he Leaves the Country, then splits SOJ, then he leaves Canonical how long before he quits something else :D  He's just a Leaverboy ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: xsplit lol
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Take A Walk In The Park Day! :-D
<foobarry> "on linux you are limited to 6 downloading only 6 songs at a time". thanks amazon, its more than the 1 you allowed previoously, ...but why!>?!! UAgent switcher allows them all!
<awilkins> Because Linux is Naughty?
<awilkins> IT'S NAUGHTY LINUX
<awilkins> Linux users are all haxx0rs and pie-rats!
<awilkins> http://pierats.com.au/images/pie%20rats%20widescreen.jpg
<davmor2> awilkins: why would you want rat pie
<davmor2> awilkins: Steak and ale too mainstream for ya
<awilkins> Not rat pie... PIE RATS
<awilkins> They take pie from the corporations! Arrrr!
<awilkins> *squeak*
<foobarry> looks like xfce mouse's goofy brother
<davmor2> foobarry: Because they assume that Linux User Backup why would they ever need to download again :D
<foobarry> it was an mp3 CD
<foobarry> mind you, judging by recent us gov stats, linux users are the 1% still
<davmor2> JamesTait: Are you insane, walking is exercise, that's bad for you for a start off, outside that's even more dangerous, I mean there a people so bugs, there is there big lightbulb in the sky, there are green thing that attack you...I think they are triffids, not to mention the hay fever it causes, no, no walking in the parks for me ;)
<popey> Morning
<foobarry> o/
<DJones> davmor2: Sorry, you need to up the medication, you're hallucinating, there's no big lightbulb in the sky to worry about, its only the massive bolts of lightening that causes problems
<davmor2> DJones: there is here I want to turn it off it's way more than 100Watts
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dutchie> orning
<dutchie> morning even
<bigcalm> It's not that sunny
<dutchie> it's pretty sunny here
<davmor2> bigcalm: okay it's clouding over a bit but before I started work it was bright blue and sunny :P
<bigcalm> It was sunny this morning on my drive in to Shrewsbury
<bigcalm> But it's hazy now I think
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it's not hazy that's just sun blindness ;)
<knightwise> so .. Is there a possibility to install the "ubuntu-next" desktop on 14.04 ?
<popey> unlikely.
<awilkins> Ubuntu next ; can you customize the location of the dash button? Not sure why they moved it to bottom left (apart from i) tablets and ii) Windows)
<awilkins> (comment based on a YouTube vid from December)
<knightwise> popey: can you do it on a 15.04 ?
<popey> its top right on desktop, bottom left on phone
<popey> top left*
<bigcalm> Maybe it being bottom left on the phone means that one has more chance of reaching it with on's thumb (right handed operation)
<bigcalm> Lack of Skype and Google Hangout apps are currently stopping me from using the uPhone as my main phone. I'm sure the day will come though :)
 * knightwise is confused about the whole ubuntu next thing.
<knightwise> So this touch/windowed switching is not something that comes with Ubuntu 15.04 ?
<popey> Every release of Ubuntu so far (since a couple of years) has shipped with Unity7 based on Compiz.
<popey> The next release, currently on phones, and not ready for production on desktops is Unity8 (not based on Compiz)
<popey> 15.04 will ship with Unity7
<popey> There is a preview iso containing Unity8 for people to play with.
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> and the unity8 is the one that switches you between a touch/fullscreen-windowed interface
<popey> yes.
<knightwise> so in essence you can try installing unity8 on 15.04 or 14.04 but its not realy ready for primetime
<popey> Who said 14.04?
<knightwise> me .. :) I'm running 14.04 on my surface pro
<knightwise> so i was wondering if I could give unity8 a try
<popey> 11:20 < knightwise> so .. Is there a possibility to install the "ubuntu-next" desktop on 14.04 ?
<popey> 11:23 < popey> unlikely.
<popey> feel free to build it and discover it breaks your setup
<knightwise> ok , but if I install 15.04 I could give it a go ?
<knightwise> although : http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/unity-8-desktop-preview-session-14-04
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<zmoylan-pi> saw the laziest rainbow over the weekend.  :-) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBRT225WoAAe92Z.jpg:large
<knightwise> Lol :)
<foobarry> which museum has stuff about the planets? science or natural history mus?
<foobarry> or neither
<MooDoo> natural history
<MooDoo> http://nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/space/planets-solar-system/index.html
<foobarry> i saw this but wondered if they have an exhibit
<MooDoo> ah not sure
<foobarry> i kind of assumed the science museum would have an iteractive exhibit with big planets and stuff
<Sebsebsebb> Hi
<zmoylan-pi> they'd take too much space? :-)
<zmoylan-pi> jupiter alone...
<Sebsebsebb> Popey ping
<Myrtti> stupid arduino
<popey> Sebsebsebb: pong
<Myrtti> yay new email address \o/
<Sebsebsebb> Popey how come certain settings change themselves back or don't go into effect on the bq
<popey> Such as?
<Sebsebsebb> Up checking sending diagnostics gets changed back to sending them after a while, after re booting I think to. What actually gets sent for that anyway saying  that wjhen the browser crashes for example
<popey> bug 1437633
<lubotu3> bug 1437633 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "Choosing not to report crashes and errors setting reverts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437633
<popey> known bug
<Sebsebsebb> Oh
<Sebsebsebb> Well what gets sent anyway?
<popey> you can see yourself if you hit the "Previous error reports" button immediately below that
<popey> it shows all the error reports your phone has sent
<popey> It's what populates http://errors.ubuntu.com/
<Sebsebsebb> Yeah but nerd access to see the contents it seems
<popey> ah, yes
<popey> same kind of data the desktop sends
<Sebsebsebb> Which is?
<popey> version numbers, packages installed, name of the program that crashed, date/time, cpu type
<popey> maybe some other stuff I haven't looked at.
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: the things you see in the crash file
<Sebsebsebb> Where's the crash file?
<popey> in /var/crash
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: /var/crash same as on the desktop
<Sebsebsebb> On the phone to?
<Sebsebsebb> Oh there's a file system somewhere?
<Sebsebsebb> File manager I mean
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: the store
<popey> in the store, yes
<popey> or ssh in
<popey> or adb shell
<popey> or use the terminal
<davmor2> or  terminal app
<popey> jinx
<Sebsebsebb> and var crash will have everything that was sent to errors ubuntu in text files or something?
<popey> compressed files
<Sebsebsebb> That can be opened with?
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: a compressed file if you use terminal app you can use apport-bug to view it
<popey> apport-unpack
<Sebsebsebb> I didn't seem to come across a terminal app when looking at the store before but I'll look soon
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: it gives the same kinda details as the desktop, so Version, app that crashed and stacktrace, iirc
<Sebsebsebb> Another one is how I changed things to suspend after 10 minutes, but still switched after one even though then said 10 in settings, and yes the shipped ut version on bq, I'll upgrade soon probably
<Sebsebsebb> Switched scree  off avove
<Sebsebsebb> What's a stack trace
<popey> sorry, rewind..
<popey> "how I changed things to suspend after 10 minutes"
<popey> what do you mean there?
<davmor2> popey: lock screen when idle for x minutes I assume
<popey> ah
<popey> you should update :)
<Sebsebsebb> Yes that
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: in which case it sends the screen black after a minute to save on power but the phone isn't locked
<Sebsebsebb> yeah but by default turns off sceen and number lock since I did that after like one minute
<Sebsebsebb> But
<popey> yeah, i have mine set to never lock
<Sebsebsebb> I changed the setting to 10 and shows as that, but turns off screen suspends after a minute anyway
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: the screen dim will happen after a minute but here I've tried 2 and 3 minute on both it is dim but still active till the time is up let me try 10
<Sebsebsebb> And yeah isn't the shipped bq version like two versions behind the latest ubuntu touch version?
<popey> well we've pushed out updates since the phones shipped, yes.
<popey> another one due later this week or next
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: again 10 minutes looks fine so far, screen is dim but active so not loacked
<Sebsebsebb> Popey btw what's vivid in the earlier bug report another version of ut I assume maybe the dev even
<popey> vivid will become 15.04
<Sebsebsebb> Oh the code name for the next one ah yes
<foobarry> i have a PAYE coding notice from HMRC
<foobarry> it has "gift aid payments" on it which affect my tax code
<foobarry> i can't work out whether that figure is the gross figure i have given to chairty or net
<foobarry> anyone know?
<davmor2> foobarry: you mean you don't know how much you've given to charity :D
<foobarry> i do, they don't
<foobarry> the figure is way out
<foobarry> finally they picked
<foobarry> up the phone
<foobarry> the anser is yes gross
<foobarry> how many times have you heard "i'm sorry i'm just having a few problems with my system"
<foobarry> on a phone call to some public service
<davmor2> foobarry: don't forget that might just be the amount of tax that was repaid to the charity
<davmor2> foobarry: that's what the gift aid does
<foobarry> davmor2: i asked her and she said its the gross charitable giving
<davmor2> foobarry: yes, so if you gave 10 charities Â£120 each you would see the gross repayment on that so it would be like 30 or something
<foobarry> no, the PAYE form shows the gross amount given to charity in the year
<foobarry> give Â£1000 , you see Â£1000 on the form
<foobarry> no idea where there figures came from
<foobarry> would be nice to find out i've overpaid :D
<davmor2> foobarry: from the charity donation forms you filled in
<foobarry> the bulk goes to one charity, they would claim gift aid
<foobarry> so if that was correct, you would see a more accurate figure
<foobarry> it may be a figure from an ancient tax return
<foobarry> but the figure is so low i don't think so
<davmor2> foobarry: so I filled out a form for WHF I pay them Â£20 month, so they would send those details in and that would be on my tax slip, but don't forget it is only for the taxable year so might not have all the payments you made from january for example
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> but lets say hypothetically i give 15% of my salary to save the badgers..every year
<foobarry> then you would think somehow the figure might be accurate if they updated it using info corrlated from sources
<foobarry> so i'm convinced they don't
<foobarry> so badgers.org just tell HMRC, hey we got 5000 in gift air payments, please refuend us
<foobarry> then its up to any friends of badgers to tell hmrc since not all will be high tax payers
<zmoylan-pi> you're a member of the badger liberation front?! :-)
<foobarry> oh, save the badger is real :-|
<foobarry> âWe must not make badgers scapegoats for bovine TBâ. Joanna Lumley
<foobarry> beers are on me if this works anyway
<zmoylan-pi> all the current evidence is badgers have nothing to do with bovine tb
<foobarry> i don't care about badgers much
<Sebsebsebb> D
<foobarry> except for breezy ones
<Sebsebsebb> Davmor2 I installed the terminal app and opened and it asks to enter a password what password
<foobarry> long gone are pronouncable code names
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: your password, the pin or password you unlock your phone with
<Sebsebsebb> I tried ok wrong pin
<Sebsebsebb> Ok on it so how to see the log files I re opened this since earlier on a tablet
<diddledan> artanoon
<zmoylan-pi> artery ok? :-)
<Sebsebsebb> Davmor2
<popey> Sebsebsebb: what's up?
<popey> Sebsebsebb: technically #ubuntu-touch is the support channel for ubuntu on phones :)
<Sebsebsebb> Yeah I know
<davmor2> Sebsebsebb: apport-bug /var/crash/<bug>  then hit v for view
<davmor2> Arthur Daily is that a cockney term for a part-timer?
<awilkins> badgers : Have polarized my opinion of Brian May
<foobarry> awilkins: its a black/white issue
<awilkins> On the one hand, like the politics his "Common Decency" thing is emitting
<awilkins> On the other hand, really, badgers?
<awilkins> Animal welfare, yes
<foobarry> he neesd to get out more
<foobarry> but he has half man half badger
<awilkins> Do I think animal welfare is incompatible with meat eating? No.
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it's the green m&ms for politically concious celebrities?
<bashrc_> http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/960/badgers.jpg
<awilkins> Happy farm animals suffer less than wild ones, so vegetarianism increases animal suffering, on average, if you have a world with universal farm animal welfare.
<bashrc_> should all animals be farm animals?
<awilkins> Interesting, isn't it. If you're a vegetarian, presumably you'd be OK with all animals being in an Earth-sized wildlife preserve where the carnivores only hunt cuddly toys and get fed soy burgers
 * zmoylan-pi can't wait to see the tuna farms :-P
<foobarry> besides teh ethics, meat is tasty
<awilkins> And we evolved to eat it just as much as any "natural" carnivore
<foobarry> mumsnet is leaking onto my facebook
<awilkins> We just developed ways of getting it that don't involve all that stressful (for the prey) hunting and stalking
<foobarry> its gone from smacking is bad->timeouts are bad->..what next?
<awilkins> WTH?
<zmoylan-pi> taking away their iphone is bad?
<awilkins> Not obeying their will As Is Their Divine Right is bad?
<awilkins> (Think of the children! Worship them and their will be done!"
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no you need to be more evil than that change the wifi password
<zmoylan-pi> no no, you can't expect parents to know how to do that. you sell them an automatic power timer to turn the wifi on and off at 5 minute intervals
<foobarry> apparently timeouts do permanent damage
<foobarry> so does putting your hand in the oven
<zmoylan-pi> my oldest sister was terrible at getting up in the morning and would need to be called multiple times.  my father grew tired of this and told her that tomorrow at 8am you will be up. the next day at 801am she was still in bed so he put tea towel in drip tray of freezer, pulled blanket off bed and dropped tea towel on her
<zmoylan-pi> she was never called more than once after that
<moreati> oh, _that_ kind of timeout. I wondered why mumsnet would be discussing window.setTimeout()
<aquarius> popey, bah. I was going to write a twitter bot which every time you used the word archive said "I think you mean 'repository'" and call it "condescendinglinuxperson" or something, but you don't say it often enough :)
<popey> hah
<aquarius> I agree completely with you, btw. :)
<zmoylan-pi> or constipatedlinuxperson everytime someone said suppository instead of repository :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: the ubuntu archive suppository
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: what about when people say "umbunto" or "ubunut"?
<diddledan> umbunto umbunto they drink it in the congpo
<zmoylan-pi> too orangey for crows... :-P
<diddledan> congo**
<diddledan> I hate when people use an O at the end of ubuntu
<diddledan> like seriously, how difficult is it?!
<zmoylan-pi> well it is a word that is completely unfamiliar to english speakers, kinda like when americans try to pronounce uk place names and get confused.  or like when british folk get caught on irish place names
<foobarry> cead mile fait
<zmoylan-pi> failtÃ©
<foobarry> there's no way an english person can work ok the proper pronunciation
<diddledan> I'm the only person on my mum's side left to marry, and the remainder of my dad's side are probably going to be wedded-off by the end of the year
<diddledan> (my cousin got married on saturday)
<elfy> hold out on that :)
<foobarry> age?
<foobarry> 35?
<diddledan> mine or my cousin's?
<foobarry> you
<diddledan> 32
<diddledan> binary
<foobarry> i know loads of lovely single women
<foobarry> and loads of single men, who should really speak to those women
<mapps> got my phone finally
<zmoylan-pi> so extra dosh required?
<davmor2> mapps: \o/
<zmoylan-pi> a life of cats beckons... :-)
<mapps> nope nothing
<mapps> i just said it was a phone case/cover/sim adapters
<mapps> he just gives it to me
<mapps> last time when i had a phone case sent here they opened the box lol
<mapps> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBWr6IJVEAA3C6N.jpg:large
<mapps> just outside apartment
<elfy> mapps: nice - sun ...
<diddledan> sun would be nice
<elfy> it would
<elfy> more than a photo though :)
<diddledan> aye
<Myrtti> sun would be nice for my project
<Myrtti> a bit difficult to test a UV sensor when it's so cloudy
<Myrtti> I suppose I could finish sewing it now since the hardware and code has been proven to work
 * elfy wonders at the connection between sewing 
<zmoylan-pi> it's multithreaded :-)
<elfy> ha ha ha
<Myrtti> elfy: https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/16328748833/
<elfy> ahah
<elfy> so zmoylan-pi was right :p
<zmoylan-pi> i wonder how the new kids computer will affect the wearable market
<davmor2> Myrtti: that is a lot of press-stud for one board
<zmoylan-pi> when good boards go bad... :-)
<Myrtti> davmor2: I actually ripped all those out and resewed them, some with one hole with conductive thread, some with some thin stranded wire soldered on
<Myrtti> and if I had not doubled on some 3.3V and GND, I would have needed a lot more of them
<Myrtti> a Piezo needs two connections, Neopixel three and the UV four
<Myrtti> I could have combined all ground to one pad but they're actually working in holding the board in place too
<davmor2> Myrtti: what you need is a crocheted sunflower with a motor that opens and closes the flower based on the sun level from the uv sensor :)
<Myrtti> I try to keep this actually functional and useful :-D
<davmor2> Myrtti: it's the equivalent of a barometer only prettier :D
<Myrtti> but I've already got a RGB LED that changes colour and blinks the amount of UV that lands
<davmor2> hahaha
<Myrtti> I was thinking of adding a button so the LED can be used as a flashlight too
<davmor2> nice 2 uses in one
<mapps> oh god
<mapps> someone suggested tennis after spinning
<mapps> think id collapse
<mapps> ;D
<diddledan> spinning?
<diddledan> as in whirling yourself around until you fall-over?
<intrbiz> cotton spinning
<mapps> cycling in a group;p
<mapps> inervas and that
<mapps> o
<mapps> time for more proxypass fun
<funkyHat> Spinning is what people do when they want to cycle but are too scared of cars
<ali1234> they should do that at wimbledon, then i'd watch it
<mapps> pfff
<mapps> spinnings for athletes
<mapps> ;p
<mapps> its hard work
<mapps> i only had 5 hours sleep too..had to get up early to collect phone
#ubuntu-uk 2015-03-31
<diddledan> m00m00
 * diddledan blows raspberries
<knightwise> morning
<diddledan> allo
<knightwise> taking the train to work today. have mercy on my soul
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> good luck!
<mapps> hey
<mapps> how long does it take knightwise
<mapps> so whos up diddledan / daftykins and zmoylan-1?:)
<diddledan> hi mapps
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> ooh, new build of win10!
<diddledan> he says unashamedly in a linux channel
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> INCLUDES SPARTAN?
<mapps> oops
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> arrived sometime in the last few hours I guess - the date on the announcement is 30th but that's in american money
<mapps> nice
<mapps> ever see people/photos and you can tell right away what people are like?
<mapps> ok dont judge a book by a cover and all that
<mapps> but when i go on facebook more often than not you can tell who's a thick chav / whos a bit of a tart
<mapps> just by the pictures
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> moo
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Backup Day!  :-D
<foobarry> anyone use mendeley or similar tool?
<foobarry> wondered if it was possible to have an onsite version
<foobarry> seems not possible :(
<Myrtti> morning
<davmor2> JamesTait: Man my backup day is thursday not tuesday
<DJones> No command 'Man' found,
<foobarry> no manual page for 'my' found
<popey> Every day is backup day! \o/
<zmoylan-pi> apart from the day the system dies as writing over a backup with file corruption just seems silly :-)
<selinuxium> Erm... This is a new one on me... Dev box /opt ran out of space. not the boot directory.
<selinuxium> Removed several gig and the server is still showing 100% utilisation?? Rebooted still the same.
<selinuxium> Any ideas?
<foobarry> btrfs?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo
<selinuxium> Standard file system.
<diddledan> SFS?
<selinuxium> sat on a SAN
<diddledan> never heard of the Standard file system
<selinuxium> ext4
<diddledan> better! :-p
<diddledan> be splefic
<selinuxium> :P
<diddledan> splelific
<diddledan> (the extra L is important :-p)
<popey> keep taking the meds diddledan
<selinuxium> Unless you faff with the install... :)
<diddledan> popey: always :-p
<selinuxium> diddledan, So apart from the pedantry, any ideas? :)
<popey> lsof and see what files are open / growing
<selinuxium> Already done an fsck
<diddledan> damn you pre-empted my reply, selinuxium
<diddledan> open files should be fixed by a reboot
<foobarry> what is in /opt on your install selinuxium
<selinuxium> the rest of my dev system... Mainly a cobol DB and binarys
<foobarry> cobol!?
<selinuxium> /dev/sdb1                   296G  283G     0 100% /opt
<selinuxium> Yup
<diddledan> inode limit?
<selinuxium> 7%
<selinuxium> Already thought of that..
<popey> du -hs /opt
<selinuxium> Taking it's time to respond....
<selinuxium> 283G    /opt
<foobarry> its possible to removed files that existed in another folder
<foobarry> but were symlinked
<selinuxium> /dev/sda1                   228M   86M  131M  40% /boot
<selinuxium> Not at utilisation anywhere atm.. .
<selinuxium> Carried on deleting files and got some space back... /dev/sdb1                   296G  276G  5.2G  99% /opt
<popey> selinuxium: sudo lsof | grep opt
<popey> also, iotop
<Laney> what's that hideous smell wafting up the stairs?
<Laney> oh, my trainers drying on the radiator
<Laney> :( :( :(
<foobarry> smell = bacteria
<foobarry> you are probably a walking fungus
<zmoylan-pi> or stepped in something
<Laney> they are quite holey
<Laney> so they absorb most of what comes out of the sky
<selinuxium> popey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10711272/
<diddledan> /opt/common/ACTT is using 442million blocks?
<diddledan> 512KB block means 220GB
<diddledan> (if I'm correct. remember IANAL)
<selinuxium> diddledan,  ll -h /opt/common/ACTT          -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 422M Mar 31 11:19 /opt/common/ACTT*
<diddledan> aah ok
<diddledan> I'm wrong. how rare :-p
<selinuxium> ha ha! :)
<selinuxium> I am fairly used to being wrong...
<selinuxium> Ask the other half... -_-
<selinuxium> I still don't understand the problem in that nothing adds up...
<foobarry> another day, another user who mentions that usb drives from pcworld are cheaper than enterprise storage :-|
<selinuxium> foobarry, It is amazing isn't it...
<foobarry> go ahead, you'll be back when you want fast backed-up storage attached to a HPC cluster
<zmoylan-pi> or someone trips over all the usb cables trailing across the floor interwoven with power bricks and power leads and power strips
<foobarry> do they think we have a big server in the Datacentre with a load of chained usb drives?
<foobarry> like popeys microserver?
<popey> that was less trip and more yank
<zmoylan-pi> it's a cunning ploy in case there's a police raid :-) a self destructing server
<davmor2> selinuxium: you don't understand how other halves work do you,  When they are wrong it's your fault so you are wrong, when you wrong then it's your fault and you are as wrong as if you were right ;)
<selinuxium> *nods sagely*
<foobarry> why is this the case?
<foobarry> it is true
<foobarry> but why so universal
<foobarry> wow. shared parental laeve
<foobarry> i wish i had that option
<davmor2> foobarry: universal constants it what keeps the universe in harmony :)
<foobarry> so i have a question..
<foobarry> what if everyone in the country did 35hr week?
<foobarry> without exception
<foobarry> what would happen? economically? socially?
<zmoylan-pi> politicians would never let it happen, they'd have to work!!
<foobarry> work can be done within contracted hrs
<foobarry> teachers only doing 9-5 , nurses, politicians,
<foobarry> what would it look like?
<foobarry> happier marraiges? worse? more babies? healthier citizens?
<davmor2> foobarry: the country would grind to a halt and implode
<foobarry> why?
<foobarry> i do a productive week within my contract hrs. i've done the 55hr weeks too earlier in life
<zmoylan-pi> because doctors when training do 60-80 hour weeks or it would take twice as long to train them
<foobarry> more people get sick as a result, some long term burn out
<foobarry> i don't think any of these are reasonable arguments
<foobarry> then it takes 2x as long
<foobarry> but when they get there, it will be a regular job, not crazy
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think you can just make it take twice as long.  i think it's partially a shakedown trial to see if they can survive the worst that medicine can throw at them in the event of disaster
<foobarry> but if they only work contracted hrs then they don't need crazy training
<foobarry> long term, think of the effect on the country
<foobarry> slower pace of life
<foobarry> people being productive within their hrs
<foobarry> happier nation?
<foobarry> london is crazy busy and its killing everyone
<foobarry> did it contribute to the pilot going mad?
<davmor2> music music music music music music music music music music music :P
<ahayzen> davmor2, oi ;)
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: So...a 35hr week would cull the population through disease and thus stave off global warming?
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmmm, soylent green...
<davmor2> ahayzen: for mine and MooDoo and popey 's generation you need to add a filter that adds a low motor sound and the odd skip of a second or so call it vinyl mode :)
<zmoylan-pi> and a button to add the sound of a record arm been dragged across the grove for those dramatic moments that require it :-)
<ahayzen> davmor2, heh ... 70s onwards i'm cool with :) ... being a 90/00s kid
<TwistedLucidity> What should be prevented (or severely curtailed) are zero-hour contracts.
<zmoylan-pi> it may be they are needed. i'd just charge companies that use them per person a tax to cover the dole of the person on zero hour contract to top their wages up to weekly wage. just in case they're been used inappropriately
<popey> davmor2: have you seen Raised by Wolves on channel 4?
<davmor2> popey: no I should but then I see wolves often enough
<popey> its rather good
<popey> one of the best things on telly IMO
<davmor2> popey: it would help if it was based in wolverhampton I guess, and you can tell that the actor ain't from round here, not enough R's and *$@*Â£Â£*$^&*&^Â£(*&^Â£$)*Â£^Â£Â£("*&^)"^Â£*(^(*Â£&^(Â£*^Â£Â£&*(^Â£* or expletives that are discernible
<popey> :)
<davmor2> popey: and in the clip I just saw they had books that would knocked off DVD's here why would they waste bookshelf space on books :D
<shauno> zmoylan-pi: stop dragging the needle and you won't have to emulate skips :)  poor abused records :(
<popey> I think that's the point, they're seen as wierd pikeys by the neighbourhood, but they're all quite articulate
<davmor2> popey: I'll have to have a look at some point
<foobarry> i know i should never read the comments..but the independent has some of the most deranged ones out there
<diddledan> foobarry: trolls be trolls
<foobarry> they are more than that
<foobarry> all have some bee in their bonnet
<diddledan> bzzzz
<diddledan> if you're ever lost and you hear a bee going buzzz buzzz, then the best idea is to hop on the bus and head to the nearest bus-station
<foobarry> more pills please nurse
<DJones> Have some dried frog pills foobarry
 * foobarry hands them to diddledan 
<diddledan> also if you're ever stuck in a locked room with just a table then rub your hands till they're sore, saw the table in half and put the two halves together again to make a whole. finally climb through the hole to get out.
<foobarry> what do you guys pay for building+contents insurance for a year?
<shauno> argh.  just wasted 3 whole hours trying to troubleshoot why a site keeps acting so screwy.  3 hours.  the answer turns out to be "the customer clicks "reset to defaults" when he's bored"
 * zmoylan-pi passes shauno a fully charged cattle prod
<Myrtti> I wonder if our conservatory is going to fly off
<diddledan> shauno: really?!
<shauno> yes.  every time they were sent to a page to read off a setting, they "fiddled with stuff" while they were there.
<awilkins> "Oh, maybe this will fix it. If both of us are working on it in parallel, it may get fixed faster!"
<diddledan> ffs
<diddledan> blinking clients
<diddledan> I swear there should be an intelligence/sanity test before taking on new customers
<zmoylan-pi> that reminds me of the time i was checking the network cabling at a retail location and had cable tester plugged in 2 floors apart and had lots of problems till i found my boss was disconnecting the cable tester to 'help me'
<diddledan> err
<zmoylan-pi> no i never worked out how that was to help me either.  i would also add i was in serious pain at the time and was hospitalised for 6 weeks that year for various bits of surgery
<zmoylan-pi> and climbing those flights of stairs about 30 times that day really helped
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> sugary is not fun.. well the morphine is fun.. but the pain isn't
<diddledan> I loved the morphine they gave me for my gall bladder ectomy
<diddledan> I was high as a kite
<diddledan> I can understand the addictive nature
<diddledan> I want to have another surgery just for the awesome after effect :-p
<popey> sugary sounds great!
<diddledan> popey: it's sweet
<diddledan> but fattening :-(
<shauno> I was going to say they have surgery for that too, but I'm not sure that'd get you morphine
<Myrtti> I didnt' get any morphine :-|
<Myrtti> the anesthetic/sedative for the operation was great though
<Myrtti> can totes understand why MJ was a fan
<diddledan> yeah, I donno if it was morphine, I'm just using that as a catch-all for anaesthetic
<diddledan> https://www.google.co.uk/#safe=off&q=%3Cblink%3E+html
<diddledan> that's evil
<diddledan> almost as bad as marquee
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: Morphine is awesome
<TwistedLucidity> Cartoon channel, 3am, out of my skull on morphine. Brilliant. For the avoidance of confusion, I was in hospital at the time.
<zmoylan-pi> could have been the test card AND morphine and it would still have been brilliant
<popey> only experience I have of morphine is watching my dad die while on it
<zmoylan-pi> my mother was moved to diamorphine when she reached last day or two.  essentially heroin.  didn't stop the pain at the end
<Myrtti> I watched mum on the pump for a month, took turns with my sister on sleeping on a mattress on the hospital room floor
<Myrtti> I hate them pumps
<popey> yeah :(
 * elfy touches wood
<Myrtti> they are especially hated when the patient clogs up and the pump doesn't deliver the medication anymore and starts to beep
 * awilkins hated re-siting the venous lines for said pumps
<popey> hmm, my laptop has suddenly got slow networking wise, 5Mb/s up/down on speedtest
<popey> network to other machines on LAN is fine
<popey> and other machines out to internet are fine
<awilkins> Is it running Windows and/or playing an MP3 ?
<zmoylan-pi> reboot the machine?
<popey> I'd rather find out what's wrong than do a windows and reboot it
<popey> it's my x220
<popey> been slow all day
<popey> (since I rebooted)
<popey> trying to figure out how to diagnose what's causing it
<foobarry> iptraf
<awilkins> I had a weird network crash after running a very large rsync transfer the other day, the wired adapter just gave up and sulked
<popey> switched from wired to wifi, still throttled
<Myrtti> we're going to have a fun evening today, dsample is getting a new NEW laptop
<popey> oooh
<Myrtti> XPS 15 with the 4K display
<Myrtti> gonna pop Ubuntu on it :-D
<Myrtti> well, I assume that's his plan
<Myrtti> who knows, he might actually put Gent... no. he wouldn't
<popey> Is that the new one? I think there's some issues with that device still
<popey> touchpad driver iirc
<awilkins> Touch PAD or touch SCREEN
<awilkins> And I thought it was the touchscreen and that it had been fixed, but that's just a rumour
<foobarry> my keyboard keeps going mad with keyboard repeat
<foobarry> its a new machine
<foobarry> probably bad driver :(
<Myrtti> well, we'll see how it fares, I suppose
<Myrtti> I hope I don't stop making sense - I'm planning to pay for the wedding venue, celebrant and photographer in a bit and in preparation have taken to the rhubarb wine bottle
<davmor2> popey: my desktop is wired and way way faster than my wifi laptop.  Laptop is 19.23 down and 5.94 up, pc is 68.34 down and 5.82 up.
<Myrtti> atleast this time I don't need to cash into my investment funds savings like I had to the last time I had to pay a big family occasion bill
<davmor2> popey: did you get pitti's nm-indicator minus dbus on your laptop
<Myrtti> that hurt badly
<Myrtti> made a good 500 loss on that move
<popey> davmor2: yeah, just updated again and got new nm
<popey> seems better now
<popey> up to 90Mb/s down, was 5Mb/s :(
<msm__> Hi there
 * popey suspects wrong window
<popey> hello msm__
<msm__> popey: hey :) My fingers skipped windows  .. but thanks for the "hello" :)
<foobarry> mmm purple opal fruits
<davmor2> msm__: you'll alway have a hello here, nothing useful like, but at least a hello :)
<msm__> davmor2: Helloooo :)
<popey> davmor2: can you speedtest-cli a few times for me if you're on up to date vivid?
<popey> Mine varies wildly
<davmor2> popey: give me 5
<davmor2> popey: don't forget the wind ;)
<popey> hah
<davmor2> popey: just cause virgins pretty prompt if you are pinging a bt line at any point good luck ;)
<popey> but other machines on my LAN are fine
<popey> its not VM
<popey> it's my machine.
<davmor2> popey: then just ping your router will give you more accuracy I'd of thought
<popey> ping isn't useful
<popey> needs to be chunky download
<popey> which my router can't give me
<davmor2> popey: but you san can
<popey> san?
<davmor2> popey: server then
<davmor2> popey: your massive array of disks on btrfs
<davmor2> popey: that should still have less latency than the interwebz :D
<popey> thats not my machine
<popey> thats another machine
<davmor2> popey: one excuse after another ;)
<popey> hah
<davmor2> popey: do you have more than one laptop in the house if so put an iso on one and copy that back and forth
<popey> seriously...
<popey> this issue only happens when this machine is getting from t'internet
<davmor2> popey: hahahaha
<popey> iperf from my machine to home server is GbE :)
<popey> and works fine
<davmor2> popey: so not the laptop and not the router which only leave the wind ;)
<intrbiz> MTU set correctly?
<davmor2> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10712965/
<popey> Download: 81.15 Mbit/s
<popey> from home server
<popey> Download: 3.96 Mbit/s
<popey> from laptop
<daftykins> ouch
<intrbiz> popey: laptop on wifi?
<popey> no, wired
<davmor2> popey: my laptop is slower but like 19.xx rather than 60.xx
<davmor2> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10712978/
<davmor2> popey: last one is laptop over desktop
<daftykins> has vivid had multiple kernels that is worth testing between?
<daftykins> *are
<intrbiz> use the packets luke
<popey> it's only got worse over the last day or so
<davmor2> popey: I blame pitti's change to network-manager :)
<popey> yeah
<intrbiz> just blame network-manager
<davmor2> intrbiz: no I think there were some big changes made. over night that landed
<diddledan> http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/CBWu9giWgAE4Ifj.jpg
<intrbiz> If only we could keep that situation for longer
<diddledan> eww, the sun's coming out! >.<
<diddledan> my eyes!!!!
<daftykins> :D
<DJones> +Damm,you forget that in some parts of the world its April 1st already, http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/133405-press-to-buy-amazon-s-new-dash-buttons-fit-anywhere-and-quickly-order-specific-products
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Google has pac man in maps :)
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Thats fair enough, when there was the partial eclipse the other week, I remember seeing a "picture" showing pacman eating the moon or something like that
 * popey reboots router
<diddledan> omg popey going offline?!
<diddledan> seriously bad news!
 * popey came back pretty quickly
<diddledan> wb
<diddledan> you didn't even disappear
 * diddledan apt-get-moo's
<apt-get-moo> heya
<apt-get-moo> :D
<diddledan> ello
<popey> the benefit of running irssi in screen on a remote box
<Myrtti> tadah
<popey> uhoh
<dsample> lol
<Myrtti> you never know, he could have joined because m0nkey_ is here ;-)
<Myrtti> or he could be here to give you a third degree
<dsample> Itâs not delivered yet. Iâm hoping the recommendation isnât âstick with windows for the momentâ :oP
<diddledan> Myrtti: you'dathunk he might wander by because you're here, no?
<Myrtti> lol no.
<diddledan> :-p
<Myrtti> I'm the IRC addict and his social secretary
<diddledan> lol
<Myrtti> lol @ stackexchange
<dsample> Sheâs here (and on Google Hangouts), no need to have IRC as well
<dsample> Itâs weird how much we discuss through Hangouts even though weâre sitting next to each other
<Myrtti> oh but that's just links
<davmor2> popey: you getting better speed now?
<Myrtti> delivery \o/
<daftykins> how odd, the Crucial RAM i ordered to upgrade this cheap Lenovo just died
<Myrtti> uuuuu says he
<Myrtti> nice packaging
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> now we've got a tiny laptop and a big laptop
<daftykins> diddledan: you played with the spartan browser in your win10 VM yet?
<diddledan> daftykins: yup
<daftykins> i'm letting mine update now
<daftykins> cant believe their delivery mechanism was to have you download the entire disc image to the HDD
<diddledan> really? mine updated via windows update
<Myrtti> oh no!
<Myrtti> the most difficult part of getting a new laptop
<Myrtti> WHAT IS THE LAPTOP CALLED
<Myrtti> woo
<diddledan> Myrtti: fred
<diddledan> or bob
<diddledan> maybe barney
<Myrtti> and good sensible chuckles were had.
<Myrtti> thank you diddledan
<Myrtti> nuu, he's being boring
<daftykins> diddledan: yes but it downloaded the entire ISO contents to a hidden folder on C:\ then installed via that boot point replacement :)
<shauno> mine's called "laptop"  :(
<daftykins> diddledan: ah i've just logged in and see they have build 10041 ISOs for download now anyway
<diddledan> alternatively Myrttis-MSI-ABC123
<Myrtti> "xps15-win" whaaa
<diddledan> (as ubuntu likes naming things)
<Myrtti> boooooring
<daftykins> yeah name is always the longest stage :(
<diddledan> daftykins: we're on 10049 now
<daftykins> diddledan: ja i knows it
<daftykins> i've seen some hilarious auto generated names by ubuntu, they called some laptop "HP-Pavilion-G6000-somecodehere"
<davmor2> Myrtti: depends on your naming convention
<Myrtti> I've never heard him swear so much as now...
<Myrtti> *rolleys* Windows Metro
<daftykins> TIFKAM - the interface formerly known as metro :>
<davmor2> Myrtti: he's liking the Windows 8 then
<Myrtti> I'm just staring with a horrified expression
<Myrtti> I didn't know he knew those words
<daftykins> sounds like my reaction to both windows 8, 8.1 and Unity on Ubuntu ;)
<daftykins> hmm, all three even :D
<davmor2> Myrtti: just ask him to turn it off from the menu, stand back and wait for the explosion
<Myrtti> he's backseating my IRC, ie. reading over my shoulder
<daftykins> davmor2: but they added that.
<daftykins> latest windows 8.1 update has power buttons in more sane places, but is still horrible overall :D
<davmor2> daftykins: mine came with windows 8 it wasn't in then it is in settings rather than start neither make sense really but at least you could find it in start
<daftykins> yeah your factory install was likely not up to date
<Myrtti> he's checking what the laptop has preinstalled before connecting to tinternets
<davmor2> daftykins: 8.1 wasn't released at the time
<Myrtti> truly shocked, I'll tell you
<Myrtti> the LANGUAGE!
<dsample> It came pre-infected with McAfee!
<davmor2> Myrtti: but he is only reading the messages on the screen out loud
<diddledan> dsample: does it have superfish?
<daftykins> davmor2: ah, redesign comment still stands though :>
<Myrtti> I should take a photo of the setup now.
<bashrc> You're setting up windows?
<dsample> âSoftware removedâ, yay, now Iâm one step closer to connecting it to the Internet
<daftykins> makes more sense to clean install a factory PC :)
<dsample> bashrc: unfortunately some games only support Windows & OSX, so it makes a small amount of sense to keep a small Windows partition in the corner
<dsample> Although, Iâm starting to think if I want Windows 8.1 on here I should probably download a fresh ISO from my work MSDN subscription
<daftykins> dsample: definitely :) what brand is this thing?
<Myrtti> daftykins: Dell XPS 15 with the 4K display
<daftykins> ah-har
<diddledan> ooh, 4k!1
<daftykins> i'd love one of the 1920x1080 res XPS 13s :>
<daftykins> 15hrs battery \o/
<bashrc> jeepers
<daftykins> but then skylake is just around the corner, which might be even better
<bashrc> I don't think I've ever had a laptop whose battery lasted longer than 3 hours
<Myrtti> daftykins: ... I have that one
<Myrtti> :-D
<Myrtti> the battery doesn't last 15hrs tho
<daftykins> i know!
<daftykins> probably not with ubuntu, no
<popey> grrrr
<popey> Download: 1.97 Mbit/s
<popey> Upload: 5.84 Mbit/s
<daftykins> O_O
<popey> I have no idea what to do now.
<bashrc> drink tea?
<daftykins> popey: haven't been multiple vivid kernels to try between, at all?
<popey> kernel hasn't changed though
<daftykins> oh compared with when it was acting normally?
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> ah
<popey> maybe it has, i had a long uptime
<popey> march 24 was last kernel change
<daftykins> i was thinking anything that could've changed the LAN driver, though granted it could be something else
<popey> its terible on wifi too
<daftykins> mmm so must be another component in the chain
 * bashrc backed up
<Myrtti> awww, he needs to connect it to the Internet to claim the 20GB of Dropbox that came with the machine
<Myrtti> oh the dilemma
<Myrtti> the crowd goes wild
<Myrtti> will he do it
<bashrc> I would use Owncloud or syncthing
<popey> this is all over the place
<popey> Download: 19.66 Mbit/s
<bashrc> the bandwidth Gods are fickle
<popey> on wifi
<Myrtti> bashrc: "yeah, but frrreee"
<Myrtti> well that's not what he said
<diddledan> popey: you don't have any torrents running on your network do you?
 * popey rebootno
<popey> no
<diddledan> hmm
<popey> and this is the only machine that has the issue
<diddledan> maybe you're being DDoSed :-p
<popey> speedtest on my desktop is fine
<popey> and on my home server
<diddledan> weird
<davmor2> popey: is it intel wifi?
<daftykins> popey: does iperf's results when testing between that system and another LAN system suffer too?
<popey> daftykins: wired or wifi
<popey> davmor2: ^
<davmor2> popey: do you have any usb wifi dongle
<davmor2> popey: could be intel across the board and one broken driver
<popey> ah!
<davmor2> popey: if you have a usb dongle plug that in see if that improves it
<popey> its not just my laptop then
<popey> my server ....
<popey> Download: 2.38 Mbit/s
<popey> Upload: 0.38 Mbit/s
<daftykins> D:
<popey> hmmm
<popey> thing is the results are all over the place
<diddledan> jaybers
<davmor2> popey: that's a problem on the network then at a guess,  I blame the wind damn it ;)
<diddledan> or your ISP or BT have overloaded the node
<popey> running iperf between laptop and server
<popey> oh, over wifi
 * popey switches to lan
<popey> [  3]  0.0-10.1 sec  25.2 MBytes  21.1 Mbits/sec
<popey> over wifi
<popey> [  3]  0.0-10.0 sec  1.09 GBytes   931 Mbits/sec
<popey> over lan
<popey> the one thing I have yet to reboot... cable modem
<popey> cheerio everyone for a bit
<popey> back in the room
<Myrtti> now he's gotten bored and wants the Ubuntu USB stick
<popey> incoming UEFI issues
<popey> Download: 79.49 Mbit/s
<popey> better..
<diddledan> uefi issues?
<popey> from Myrtti and mr Myrtti
<diddledan> aah
<davmor2> popey: shouldn't be any as long as uefi register the usb stick okay
<popey> Download: 73.80 Mbit/s
<popey> on server
<popey> stupid cable modem
<diddledan> that's sucky
<MartijnVdS> 490/586
<popey> git
<MartijnVdS> (though the 586 was dropping and would eventually level out at 500)
<Myrtti> key management o_____O
<Myrtti> this bios is confuuuusing
<daftykins> newp standard EFI talk :>
<daftykins> but you don't have to worry about key management
<Myrtti> jebus that's really the 4k display
<Myrtti> grub menu is unreadable because the font is so small
<Myrtti> well, nearly unreadable
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> pics please!
<Myrtti> wow the menus and the texts!
<diddledan> grub really needs to learn how dpi works
<Myrtti> lol, one sec
<daftykins> i've still yet to work out how to set a sane DPI on the desktop of the LXDE session that comes with kodibuntu
<Myrtti> "I have a feeling this is going to be slightly strenuous"
<Myrtti> "although, accessibility menu..."
<daftykins> if i log in to that instead of the sessions that runs Kodi, the pic on my 1080p TV is way too tiny
<Myrtti> "well, trackpad works for the basic stuff"
<Myrtti> I can't see the text on the menu
<Myrtti> goddamn, what is this, laptop for ants?
<Myrtti> Ubuntu for ants.
<diddledan> wait till you plug it into a non-hi-dpi monitor and try having two different scaling settings for internal and external :-p
<Myrtti> https://flic.kr/p/qWKMqF
<Myrtti> lol he's trying to pinpoint london on the map
<davmor2> hahaha
<davmor2> can't you drag it to increase the size of the window?
<diddledan> that won't change the font size
<Myrtti> "noyp"
<Myrtti> now we're back in the starting square
<Myrtti> "what shall we call the laptop"
<Myrtti> oh apparently he's wiping windows
<diddledan> bert
<Myrtti> now he's got two cursors
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> lol
<Myrtti> "oh man now it'll probably start speaking"
<diddledan> nah cortana isn't available yet
<Myrtti> no the Ubuntu
<diddledan> ^^^^
<Myrtti> oh christ
<Myrtti> he's named it bumblelion
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I'm going to fake elements
<davmor2> hahaha
<diddledan> I've got samsonite and carbonite so far
<diddledan> think I need to rename my other two boxes
<Myrtti> now he's thinking of gummibears as the names...
<Myrtti> oh lawd
 * Myrtti gets the take out menu
<Myrtti> I don't think we're going to cook tonight, Toto
<daftykins> ;]
<Myrtti> no wifi...
<popey> haha, love that pic Myrtti
<popey> also, Myrtti what version you installing? :)
<Myrtti> 14.10
<Myrtti> it's not detected at all by Ubuntu, it seems
<Myrtti> nothing in dmesg
<Myrtti> bit stumped now
<popey> lspci ?
<popey> lspci | grep -i net
<Myrtti> BCM4352
<Myrtti> rev 3
<Myrtti> ah found it
<dsample> Itâs strange that the device is supposedly certified Ubuntu within other laptops
<popey> is it?
<popey> It might be certified _when_ installed at factory with ubuntu pre-installed?
<popey> i.e. dell add a ppa with the necessary nonsense in it?
<dsample> http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog/component/pci/14e4%3A43b1/
<Myrtti> why would my USB stick be readonly filesystem
<popey> "Pre-installed by manufacturer"
 * Myrtti flips table
<dsample> popey: oh, mouseover info
<popey> yeah, sorry.
<Myrtti> oh for *
<dsample> Just wondering, is it a lengthy process to get drivers added to the base image? Iâd have hoped devices for popular devices (which I presume the XPS line is) would be high on the âit just worksâ requirements list
<Myrtti> "It would actually help if I'd plug the USB in instead of putting it on the laptop"
<Myrtti> poor thing, he's getting confused
<diddledan> I just reported a gnarly bug to the windows insider feedback program - the windows app store allows to be configured to save apps and games to a drive other than C: (e.g. an in-built sd-card reader such as on my MS Surface Pro 3). it doesn't check whether this drive is formatted with ntfs and blindly tries to try installing apps causing it to fail with an obscure error code because the ACL system doesn't work on, for example, exFAT filesystems.
<Myrtti> yay wifi!
<Myrtti> if those are the icons that shipped with the system, oh my word.
<Myrtti> "how do I..." "uuuuhhh install hexchat and ask popey *troll*"
<Myrtti> "why do your icons look different" "because I've restored my settings from a backup" "I'd do that too but for some reason my old laptop doesn't boot anymore..." "..... sorry"
<Myrtti> that font is ridiculous though
<popey> hah
<popey> ffs, internet has gone terrible again
<daftykins> dsample: yep it'd be unworthy of time for a single system
<daftykins> although windows 8.1 has a single option to hit on install, from legit media, to pull in all drivers auto
<daftykins> given that XPS likely uses the intel on-die graphics you'd just enable that and it'll keep most drivers current
<daftykins> audio + touchpad + any Dell utilities to drive hotkeys might be the only ones requiring manual intervention
<daftykins> gotta nip off for xbox night now, bbl o/
<Myrtti> well we used sneakernet for the drivers
<Myrtti> was a bit of an effort tbh
<awilkins> Windows drivers?
<Myrtti> no, Linux wifi
<awilkins> Ah, b34?
<Myrtti> bcmwl yeah
<Myrtti> "I can almost see the whole 400 games list on my steam on one screen on this"
<Myrtti> *rolleyes*
<Myrtti> *pout*
<Myrtti> soon we'll know how this fares with Cities
<popey> Turns out my internet issue.. UK wide.
<popey> check out their twitter replies https://twitter.com/virginmedia/with_replies
<directhex> the internet sucks
<popey> sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry...
<diddledan> popey: I can't even seem to get to www.virginmedia.com from a sky connection
<diddledan> store.virginmedia.com works tho
<diddledan> help.virginmedia.com works
<diddledan> their status page doesn't idicate any problems (at least for my postcode)
<diddledan> and national broadband also says green across-the-board
<webpigeon> diddledan: works for me
<diddledan> webpigeon: yeah it's back up now
<webpigeon> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> directhex: StephensonsRocket153plus2.iso torrent is stuck at 45.5%. Are you not seeding?
<webpigeon> Evening bigcalm
<directhex> bigcalm: oh damn, not since i rebooted to fix a thermal issue. hang on
<directhex> bigcalm: transmission running again
<mapps> hi all
<bigcalm> directhex: aha
 * bigcalm pokes his own transmission
<directhex> bigcalm: i've added more trackers to the magnet link too, which might help. http://publicbt.com/ has three URIs
<bigcalm> I don't know what magnet is
<bigcalm> Right now I'm using the direct download and will see that
<bigcalm> s/see/seed
<directhex> edited the torrent file too
<mapps> my arms are burnt
<mapps> forgot sun cream when we played tennis
<mapps> probably not an issue in uk:D
<diddledan> directhex: can I help?
<bigcalm> directhex: and now I'm seeding
<directhex> diddledan: if you like. excitement is lower than it was in 2014, and i'm doing direct http offerings too. i hope the cdn works & i'm not paying for bandwidth on that one
<mapps> sun cream gonna be kept in my bag at all times now
<shauno> when you say excitement is lower .. is that just your port?  or steamos in general?
<diddledan> hmm, which headless bittorrent do folk recommend I use?
<webpigeon>  Transmission is pretty cool because you can run it as a command line app, a web app or a gui app
<diddledan> that's what I've used in the past, yeah
<directhex> shauno: both really
<bigcalm> diddledan: transmission in daemon mode works for me. The web ui is how I interact with it
<directhex> i think my cloudflare settings are wrong. 20gb bandwidth used, a few kb cached
<diddledan> >.<
<bigcalm> Sleep time
<diddledan> directhex: what's the magnet?
 * diddledan tries adding
 * m0nkey_ doesn't like the dentist
<m0nkey_> every time, there's something
<diddledan> aah, ok, I think I found it at a .horse domain
<shauno> not very long ago, that wouldn't have been a sentence.
 * m0nkey_ sighs
<m0nkey_> is it me, or are people trolling me on reddit lately
<popey> Are they?
<popey> http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/apr/01/jeremy-clarkson-joins-guardian-drive-for-fossil-fuel-divestment?CMP=share_btn_tw
<popey> that's totally true
<popey> and not an april fool, at all...
<diddledan> ok, I'm downloading now
<diddledan> I wonder how many loglines I'm indexing per second right now
<diddledan> set it going about 10 minutes ago and up to about 15.5million lines indexed
<diddledan> now 16mill
<diddledan> looks like it's about 10k per second
<diddledan> so far the index is 7GB
<diddledan> stephensonsrocket is at 75% - soon be seeding the knackers off that beast
<diddledan> 80%
<diddledan> 85
<diddledan> 90
<diddledan> and.. done
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-01
<daftykins> nice work virgin media ;)
<daftykins> stable as a cow in a shopping trolley as is tradition
<zmoylan-pi> well it's aprils fool day so you won't miss much for next 30 odd hours
<daftykins> oh dear, yes
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins, a massive hummingbird has just taken your hat and coat
<knightwise> morning everyon e
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> popey: another much later catchy tune that isn't from the 80's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wSr7h_pjxs  your welcome by theway
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> morning
<Myrtti> apparently dsample got the NVidia to work last night
<Myrtti> so now I can play Cities on the laptop \o/
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> I've enjoyed watching somebody play on YouTube
<bigcalm> Not really my thing to play myself though
<Myrtti> http://twitch.tv/cleavetv (occasionally NSFW) and http://twitch.tv/simcopter1
<Myrtti> those are what I watch
<bigcalm> https://www.youtube.com/user/YogscastSips - pretty much everything is NSFW (language)
<bigcalm> He plays a lot of things as well as Cities
<Myrtti> Simcopter is even live now
<Myrtti> he's a real life city planner, or was before becoming fulltime streamer
<dogmatic69> I got a strange error http://pastebin.com/jHZjUFnJ
<dogmatic69> any ideas? the if statment was coppied from a working similar file without any changes :/
<foobarry> that <path> looks wrong. shouldn't you haev $PATH?
<foobarry> actually just the correct path to the php files
<foobarry> so not $PATH
<dogmatic69> well its just a place holder so I dont paste the actual path online...
<foobarry> ah, you didn't mention that :D
<dutchie> morning
<foobarry> dogmatic69: have you run them by hand?
<dogmatic69> foobarry:  ye, I just did an no errors
<dogmatic69> the error makes it seam like bash is trying to pipe the contents of the variable into the number
<foobarry> dunno, check for bad chars? i wouldn't implement that way, rather roll up into a single script that runs from crontab on the selected hours
<dogmatic69> well that would just mean much more to manage in the cron jobs instead of in the file
<foobarry> don't you need php -f ?
<foobarry> seems to be multiple issues you have but the line numbers don't match the errors
<dutchie> dogmatic69: i'd use something like "if [ $thishour -lt 5 ]; then" rather than ((
<dutchie> or probably separate scripts really
<dogmatic69> dutchie:  separate scripts would be a massive pain, there is already a bunch of them...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Fun Day! :-D
<TwistedLucidity> What's all this about Microsoft taking a 25% stake in Canoncial? Is it part of their mobile-drisruption strategy?
 * foobarry checks the date.
<TwistedLucidity> Dammit
<TwistedLucidity> Worth a shot though
<foobarry> application crashes when X displayed onto 2 computers (1 intel fedora, 1 nouveau xubuntu), and works on 2 elementary (nvidia, intel)
<popey> ho ho ho. minecraft was down this morning
<foobarry> any ideas? screen mem? common driver issue? library issue?
<popey> sam was most upset, none of the servers he wanted to connect to would work
<popey> found http://xpaw.ru/mcstatus/ and told him to refresh that page, he can play when it's all green
<bigcalm> Ah, school holiday?
<popey> ya
<foobarry> DOS attack happened to PSN on xmas day once didn't it?
<popey> I'm working at czajkowski's today so he can play all he wants
<foobarry> nice day outside
<TwistedLucidity> And he's playing "Minecraft"? Yeesh! Why isn't he out cleaning the garden, paintint the fence or sweeping chimnies? Builds character!
<foobarry> i painted the garden gate when i was 5
<popey> well, wifey has just organised for him to go to a mates house to play
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Lies. I got rained whilst walking the dog.
<foobarry> still remember doing it
<Myrtti> I've been a good wife and I set up dejadup on dsample's new laptop. Also changed his icon theme which he complained about, installed Evernote thing and now thinking of installing Sublime, too.
<TwistedLucidity> I think the concept of "a day off" is lost in my house. I got to work for the break....
<foobarry> going science museum next week
<foobarry> along with the rest of the planet i expect :S
<TwistedLucidity> Thanks for the reminder Myrtti
<Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: backups?
 * TwistedLucidity makes note to *finally* resolve the back-up strategy
<TwistedLucidity> I've got them, but none off-site and not automatic.
<TwistedLucidity> Sorting back-ups does not count as "work". Only digging, painting or cleaning counts as "work". Swearing over poorly written documentation is, apparently, "enjoyment" :-(
<Myrtti> yeah we should sort out the offsite backups too
<foobarry> glacier?
<TwistedLucidity> I was going to put an HP MicroServer in a friend's house and back-up there (with me holding his back-ups). But then they stopped making the G3 and upped the price to Â£silly.
<TwistedLucidity> Guess a RasPi2 would more than suffice.
<TwistedLucidity> Although the current plan is a few external HDDs and sneakernet.
<dutchie> i should fix backups also
<Myrtti> we've got both a ReadyNAS and an HP micro
<dutchie> currently laptop is backed up, but not desktop because i haven't figured out systemd timers yet
 * dutchie uses http://tarsnap.com/
<JamesTait> No, no - *yesterday* was backup day. Today is *fun* day. :)
<TwistedLucidity> DejaDup, Backula (there's a few others) all seem to be doable. But I need to think how to back-up the VMs as well (maybe just use BTRFS snapshot or something).
<JamesTait> AKA finding out your backups don't restore day. ;)
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone encrypt their back-ups? How do you do the key management?
<dutchie> http://pastie.org/private/jl3s65fdylnq3kjx40iqmg
<dutchie> TwistedLucidity: tarsnap!
<dutchie> it's the best
<TwistedLucidity> Ah...OK. I assume it does incrementals etc etc etc
<Myrtti> I should get some coffee and brunch going on
<dutchie> see the paste
<dutchie> 100G is encrypted/compressed/deduplicated down to 1.2
<TwistedLucidity> "--humanize". ROFL
<TwistedLucidity> Looks simple enough and seems to do the business.
<TwistedLucidity> Just the VMs remain. Back them up as a file...or back-up the data within them?
<TwistedLucidity> Data is easiest, but it means having some automagic way to rebuild the image again.
<TwistedLucidity> Configure fail2ban, certs yaddah, yaddah, yaddah
<TwistedLucidity> I know....I use "teh clowds". Yes. That'll make it all easy.
<TwistedLucidity> Why are you laughing?
 * davmor2 breaks all of JamesTait code \o/ let the fun commence MUhahahahahahahaha
<apt-get-moo> anyone seen google maps pacman edition?
<zmoylan-pi> that was so mar 31st :-)
<apt-get-moo> lol
<popey> heh
<apt-get-moo> iirc last year they had 8-bit maps
<shauno> gmail is still google's best april fools' joke :|
<foobarry> argh i missed the zinio 40% voucher code :( expired yesterday
<foobarry> 40% off all subs
<knightwise> TwistedLucidity: what are you using to sync over the backups ?
<knightwise> bittorrent sync ?
<TwistedLucidity> USB cable
<popey> syncthing \o/
<TwistedLucidity> knightwise: Currently using external HDDs....like I say, really need to get it sorted
<knightwise> im pushing in house backups to an external disk that is linked to bittorrent sync
<diplo> As popey said syncthing \o/
<knightwise> that gets synced over to a bittorrent sync drive on a remote machine at my inlaws
<diplo> Syncing family / work and home all to my server at home now
<knightwise> popey: i tried the 15.04 beta with unity 8 , but it freezes when i try to login
<knightwise> i am trying it in a vm
<popey> it doesn't work in a vm
<foobarry> who carries on playing the lottery after they;'ve won a jackpot?
<knightwise> greedy bastards
<foobarry> they won Â£1m jackpot twice
<popey> http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/36425154
<zmoylan-pi> someone who wants a bigger yacht?
<TwistedLucidity> If I won the lottery, you'd wouldn't see me for dust
<TwistedLucidity> 'course, I'd have to start actually playing the lottery.....
<foobarry> its possible to win it, but pretty much impossible for me to win
<zmoylan-pi> they won't let you play your lucky numbers 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, R? :-)
<foobarry> the chances of me winning are too small
<foobarry> to be considered as a chance
<foobarry> if i believed in those chances i wouldn't go out
<foobarry> or stay in.
<foobarry> too dangerous
<zmoylan-pi> i'm so unlucky i don't buy after 8 mints... :-D
<foobarry> pints?
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Eight
<foobarry> mmm
<foobarry> they are always in my cupboar
<foobarry> d
<awilkins> 1/1.4*10^7 chance of winning the UK lottery, approx
<awilkins> You have more chance of being struck by lightning
<zmoylan-pi> i have almost been struck by lightening
<foobarry> you have more chance on a golf course..
<zmoylan-pi> i was standing on top of a hill on outcrop overlooking sea. flash and bang were simultaneous
<davmor2> knightwise: run it from live cd if you want to play on it
 * diddledan levels-off some printer fluid (even ink)
<diddledan> evenink folks!
<diddledan> https://www.gentoo.org/
<diddledan> visit even though it's not a distro you may not appreciate
<diddledan> it's a fun redesign of their site
<shauno> lol, have you just woke up?
<diddledan> nah, been over the parental
<shauno> well, I think minecraft won this one :)
<diddledan> I've not seen that one
<shauno> https://mojang.com/2015/04/minecraft-snapshot-15w14a-the-love-and-hugs-update/
<shauno> not only because it's funny, but because the update in question is actually fully implemented, downloadable & playable
<shauno> but the little touches, like jumping straight from 1.8 to 1.10 (now that they're owned by msft) made me smile
<m0nkey_> they need to keep their site like that
<m0nkey_> yikes. $1100 for my PC build.
<directhex> that all?
<directhex> pcpartpicker says i have GBP2K left to spend, 500 already spent
<directhex> if only i had some money
<m0nkey_> anyone using a gtx960 with ubuntu?
<m0nkey_> more specifically.. the Asus STRIX gtx960?
<directhex> needs the 346 driver. is that in ubuntu?
<m0nkey_> there's a ppa for it
<m0nkey_> hmm.. do I use credit card or paypal to pay?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-02
<mapps> so will this 15euro burger be good
<mapps> or just a ripoff;D
<zmoylan-pi> will it be real cow or a complete tescos?
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> fosters hollywood..odd name no?
<zmoylan-pi> throw buzzwords at product name till it sells
<mapps> www.fostershollywood.es
<mapps> have a look
<mapps> :)
<knightwise> morning everyone
<zmoylan-pi> except sadly for off licence workers in ireland
<knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi how are you :)
<zmoylan-pi> all well, yourself?
<knightwise> doin ok .. hanging out at Google in Brussels this morning
<zmoylan-pi> are you waving a bring back google reader placard?
<knightwise> LOL :)
<knightwise> And i've tattooed "SAVE GOOGLE CODE" on my naked chest
<zmoylan-pi> there wasn't enough space on your backside with the 'mother' tattoo? :-)
<knightwise> Those two cheeks are the home of a care-bear and a Mylittlepowny
<zmoylan-pi> and developers, developers, developers that has resisted all known lasers till now...
<knightwise> LOL
<diplo> Morning all
<diddledan> morning
<Myrtti> I need to find something that I need from Amazon, sold by or shipped by Amazon, worth of Â£5.
<zmoylan-pi> does their search not help?
<foobarry> had the worst customer experience ever yesterday
<diddledan> Myrtti: just something random which happens to be around a fiver?
<foobarry> bought a bed from argos, i got contacted to say they had charged my card twice by mistake and had cancelled one. i phoned on sat to double check the delivery date was still ok "yes sir all booked". delivery nver arrived yesterady. phoned to check, they said no bookings have been made, and there is no stock available any more
<Myrtti> good point, what do I have on my wishlist
<zmoylan-pi> but i doubt they'd have a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range for that amount... :-)
<foobarry> they have individual karbonz needles
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Myrtti: wishes?  normally the point of a wish list :P
<awilkins> Why does it have to be Â£5 ?
<Myrtti> lets see if they have nice cardstock
<awilkins> You can apply Amazon vouchers against purchases larger than their face value, can't you?
<zmoylan-pi> i'm guessing a gift card
<awilkins> Last time I had one I just redeemed it and it sat in my balance until I ordered something
<Myrtti> awilkins: because a set of three gaskets and one aluminum filter for a 6 cup Bialetti Moka pot costs Â£5 and it qualifies for free shipping for purchases over Â£10
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000KG8FT2/
<foobarry> got a freind with prime Myrtti ?
 * awilkins has an Aeropress
<zmoylan-pi> if that worked wouldn't everyone just use the friend who works from home as their delivery depot? :-)
<elfy> Myrtti: get 2 - then next time you'll not need to find something for Â£5
<Myrtti> foobarry: I do, but the point about the cardstock is valid - need to send thank you cards with photos on them
<foobarry> hey this first dates prog on c4 is fun
<elfy> and morning everyone
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00NPV5T66
<foobarry> everyone needs monoculars
<zmoylan-pi> i have a monocular with an addon that makes it a microscope too
<zmoylan-pi> though i would like the kgb monocular... http://www.russianoptics.com/binoc1.html
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Nat a Spetsnaz ballistic knife?
<zmoylan-pi> spetsnaz love their shovels!! http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/spetsnaz-entrenching-shovel-1.htm
<zmoylan-pi> mind they're not too choosy... http://galeri4.uludagsozluk.com/118/spetsnaz_159587.jpg
<dogmatic69> ha http://i.imgur.com/p5W9J97.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> at least they're not red hat users... :-P
<diddledan> I like that they're laughing in his face
<diddledan> because we all know linux is a hobby os which noone takes seriously </yesterday>
<zmoylan-pi> i'd much prefer a linux evangalist at my door than jehovahs witnesses...
<diddledan> what about a jehovah's witless advocating linux?
<directhex> i wouldn't like either
<directhex> linux advocates can be some of the worst people on the internet
<directhex> and 100% counterproductive
<zmoylan-pi> true but they also don't leave their mothers basement and knock on your door while you try to sleep before night shift
<davmor2> so tune in my head this morning "He's the greatest, He's fantastic, Whenever there is trouble he'll be there....."
<zmoylan-pi> dangermouse powerhouse...
<zmoylan-pi> damnit!!
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: and now it's stuck in your head too right :D you're welcome
 * zmoylan-pi adds davmor2 to the punishment list... forced to use ms vista after the revolution...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Reconciliation Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> i never agreed to that! :-P
<diddledan> I think we're gonna have to differ on that
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Got some training videos for the Russian Fighting System kicking around. Very interesting. Imagine a soft-form of Kung Fu mixed with Ju-jitsu but much, much more violent.
<TwistedLucidity> And yes, what they can do with a shovel is eye-opening.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
 * diddledan comes over all calm, in a big way
<diddledan> oh ello bigcalm , didn't see you there :-p
<zmoylan-pi> kinda like an average hurley match
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
 * bigcalm goes for a shower
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: You been reading "Viz" again?
<diddledan> hmm, what font do I need to get those to work on windows?
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: I doubt even the Russians are that crazy
<zmoylan-pi> we should offer them a game... :-P
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> has anyone tried the tomb raider 1 just relaesd on android?
<foobarry> i guess i could try and get a refund in 2hrs if the controls are unusable
<zmoylan-pi> can't you connect a bt games controller?
<foobarry> i don't have one
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: Global Thermo-nuclear war?
<zmoylan-pi> no thanks joshua
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: the dead code?
<foobarry> everyone on hols already?
<awilkins> I wish
<awilkins> My daughter is
<diddledan> it's a unix system. I know this!
<diddledan> now I wonder how a schoolgirl in the 90s had access to high-end computer hardware and software that costs many thousands
<diddledan> (freebsd wasn't around then, I don't believe)
<diddledan> and linux was barely born by the time the movie made it public
<diplo> The first version of FreeBSD was released in 1993
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> day before christmas, the dads get to take kids to work with them
<diplo> Sod that!
<foobarry> cue jam on keybaord helpdesk tickets
<foobarry> and can you install macromedia
<diplo> When mine do have to come in I keep a old whiteboard and pens handy, they both have one and have to draw me stuff
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> whats the deal with tax free interest now?
<foobarry> when does that start?
<foobarry> so ISAs are dead now?
<foobarry> from 04/16
<Laney> depends how much interest you're earning
<foobarry> Â£1000 a year is a lot
<foobarry> especially on 0.3% interest rate
<awilkins> If you're earning over Â£1,000 in interest, you've got at least 25 grand squirreled away (at 4%)
<foobarry> who gets 4% !!!?!?
<awilkins> Dunno
<Laney> maybe not now, but it's not unheard of
<awilkins> THe bank used to get 4% off ME for my mortgage
<Laney> & that's not an unrealistic amount for people to have saved up over several years
<awilkins> Why isn't there equity in that arrangement, eh?
<foobarry> we wont see 4% for a long time
<foobarry> and the ISA limit is now 15k per year i think
<foobarry> so they are not dead long term
<foobarry> but it means that i don't have to put any in for a while
<foobarry> i got 4.25% fixed from halifax a few years ago, that just finished
<Laney> might see isa rates go up a bit to compete with current accounts now
<foobarry> would be nice
<foobarry> but there seems to be some cartel
<foobarry> whats the best rate out there atm?
<awilkins> Bonds are probably good, if you can stuff it away for a few years
<foobarry> and why are postal accoutns still a thing?
<Laney> haven't looked, not sure if i have to open a new account next year or not yet
<Laney> getting 2.5% though which is decent in this day and age
<foobarry> secure trust bank: 7years fixed at 3.11%
<awilkins> Agribank 5 years fixed at 3.30%
<awilkins> Castle Trust - (first ad hit on Google, dodgy City of London geezers by the look of it) 4.5% over 5 yrears
<foobarry> wow ads
<foobarry> "housas"
<foobarry> my wife wants to pay a man to lay a tiny lawn for 700Â£ :(
<daftykins> how tiny?
<foobarry> terraced london house
<foobarry> prob 8m * 3.m
<foobarry> or less
<foobarry> 5m*3.5m
<daftykins> wowzer
<elfy> I'll do it for half that
<foobarry> deal
<elfy> and buy a lawnmower - bring it up on the train and still make money lol
<foobarry> none of those magic beans
<elfy> :)
<foobarry> anyone used miracle grow?
<foobarry> gotta be cheaper than this
<diplo> I've laid a lawn that size in my house, simples.. just buy the turf... just make sure you prep the soil correctly first
<foobarry> prep how?
<foobarry> flatten, and sand?
<diplo> Just de-weeding and making sure theres no big stones and then yeah flatten compact it down
<diplo> The thing I found was that after I had laid my turf I hadn't compacted it hard enough and when the rains ( the heavy stuff! ) it dropped by 1/2 and inch or more
<foobarry> http://www.springbridge.co.uk/products/Premium-Cultivated-Turf-per-m2-.html
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> how do you compact it? ask heavy friends to come round?
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/16802454577/ tadah
<Myrtti> can't see the UV sensor on the top but the flora shows from behind the decorational trim
<diplo> Hire a pull along roller? Not sure if that's the best method though
<foobarry> i have some timber
<foobarry> might make a concession to wifey
<foobarry> pay for man to lay patio, but i do the turf
<diplo> hah that's what I did, couldn't afford both :)
<foobarry> was the turf acceptable in the end?
<diplo> yeah, basically the people before me put a huge patio in the centre of the garden for their child to have this huge trampoline etc, I removed all the concreate and slabs ( 4-5 skips!!!! ) and bought some soil and turf, apart from the slight dip and only I really notice that it's blended right in now
<diplo> I did it last summer a week before the heavens opened and we had those heavy heavy rains
<zmoylan-pi> how big was the child using the trampoline??
 * zmoylan-pi is visualising a jurassic park water tremors scenario for the neighbours...
<diplo> Tiny! She was young, think the dad worked away a lot and compensated by spending lots on her, was 13ft maybe? and the patio had space all around it!
<Motherland> "The link âindex.themeâ is broken. Move it to the Rubbish Bin?"     How to fix
<Motherland> This link cannot be used because its target â/etc/alternatives/x-cursor-themeâ doesn't exist.
<Azelphur> popey: have you done any interesting hacky things with the Hudl 2?
<popey> nope
<Azelphur> I'm kinda tempted to buy one since I could get one for Â£42 now with the offer going
<popey> I use it
<Azelphur> but 4.4 sounds pretty shit, and I'd kinda like to do something cool with it like put a full Linux distro on it since it has an Atom in it
<popey> good luck
<popey> 4.4 isnt bad
<popey> it works.
<popey> unsurprisingly tesco abandoned it
<Azelphur> all my devices are 5.0 now so it'd feel weird going back
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> yea Tesco abandoning it just makes me want to not buy it
<popey> https://github.com/Sturmflut/sdi-ss12
<popey> uh
<popey> oops
<popey> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2382075/tescos-hudl-2-tablet-doesnt-recognise-its-own-charger
<popey> i use mine most days
<popey> I'd like to put a linux distro on it, but it seems less than hackable.
<davmor2> Azelphur: it's a great tablet to just use rather than tinker with
<Azelphur> davmor2: well I already have a Nexus 7 2013
<davmor2> Azelphur: yeah but you can put Ubuntu on that :)
<Azelphur> davmor2: actually, I've tried and had nothing but hell putting Ubuntu on it
<davmor2> Azelphur: Yeah back you android version back to 4.4.2 first should help you out maybe :)
<Azelphur> yea, none of the chroot stuff works on 5.0
<Azelphur> but I'd like native, I figured that with the intel atom native would be easy but apparently not
<Azelphur> Been kinda tempted to buy a surface, which just makes me cringe but the hardware is what I want and I bet it'd run Xubuntu no problem
<zmoylan-pi> i'm looking at getting a pi 2 and hdmipi to add to it plus battery
<Azelphur> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> or even just use the pi2 and battery and wifi adapter to create an ad hoc network and ssh in from phone to full linux terminal
<Azelphur> yea, really I'm just after a ~7" laptop lol
<zmoylan-pi> there is the pitop which is a 10" rasp pi laptop.
<Azelphur> haha that's cute
<zmoylan-pi> or the new â¬150 chrome os laptops which might be able to run linux instead of chromeos
<Azelphur> I heard a definitive no on that because they use eMMc which SeaBIOS doesn't support
<zmoylan-pi> the flip if it can be convinced to run linux would be a tablet AND a laptop
<Azelphur> indeed
<zmoylan-pi> if they build it the linux hackers will come :-D
<davmor2> Well the caravan site is doing it's job I can already feel the stress slowly drifting away
<elfy> feeling weightless?
<elfy> hopefully it's not the caravan sliding over the cliff :p
<zmoylan-pi> caravan site is flooded and his caravan is drifting out to sea...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that would be amazing being as I'm in shrewsbury :D
<zmoylan-pi> a mole army is carrying the caravan to the sea...
<elfy> ha
<zmoylan-pi> while disguised as squirrels so as not to ruin their friendly image
<Azelphur> urgh, ordered replacement parts for my laptop, I asked them for "bottom cover" so they gave me the entire bottom of the laptop, minus the bottom cover.
<x85_> anyone install ubuntu touch on the tesco hudl 2 ?
<Azelphur> x85_: rofl we literally just had this conversation 5 minutes ago, answer seems to be: no you can't have nice things
<daftykins> ;)
<x85_> lol
<x85_> serious?
<Azelphur> yup
<Myrtti> someone is struggling with the 4k display...
<Myrtti> "all the fonts are for ANTS"
<x85_> so no possibility of it happening ?
<daftykins> x85_: who knows, go trawl the xda devs forum maybe
<Azelphur> x85_: if you find anything cool to do with it let me know, I spotted the Â£85 hotukdeal too :P
<x85_> le sigh
<foobarry> what?i just bought one
<foobarry> for big price
<Azelphur> sucks to be you, with my clubcard points I can get one for Â£42 right now
<ali1234> what's the point of it when you could just buy a nexus 7?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I already have a Nexus 7
<x85_> price point
<zmoylan-pi> i bought a phone for â¬49 and was happy till i found it for sale for â¬29 about 2 weeks later...
<ali1234> why do you want a hudl then?
<foobarry> 8.3
<Azelphur> ali1234: I was hoping the Intel chipset would make it a little more hackable, turns out nope.
<x85_> i thought the same
<x85_> :(
<zmoylan-pi> fewer and fewer hackable commercial devices it seems
<Azelphur> and now ali1234 is gonna tell us why not and ruin our dreams
<ali1234> why would you want to hack a tablet?
<ali1234> they literally only have one use and it is something that they already do
<zmoylan-pi> to install a different os
<Azelphur> ali1234: 8" device with a decent ARM chip in it to run a desktop OS would be quite cool?
<daftykins> surely the why is not a question that often concerns modders or hackers
<zmoylan-pi> even just to use cyanogen mod instead of android
<x85_> not a total loss for me because i was using an IPad
<daftykins> eww :)
<daftykins> closed fruity tech
<shauno> I'm still confused why people think they want a desktop OS on a tablet ;)
<x85_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> because they can shauno
<zmoylan-pi> especially when they can't
<Azelphur> shauno: because it's a really tiny lightweight super-long battery life laptop I can put in my pocket?
<ali1234> "because it is relatively easy and i will get on the front page of hackaday"
<x85_> modding most of linux stuff just turns out to be just because we can
<ali1234> except when they find out it's not quite as easy as they thought they all give up ^
<shauno> tablet PCs have had desktop OSes on them for a good 15-20 years.  no-one actually wanted one until they stuck a mobile OS on it
<ali1234> shauno: preach it
<Azelphur> shauno: tablet PCs and tablets are totally different things
<ali1234> yes, tablets are even more unsuitable for a desktop OS because they have no keyboard
<x85_> I'm using a MBP which I'm now punching myself in the face over because the OS is just bs
<Azelphur> ali1234: tablet pcs are generally 4-5x  the size of a tablet
<Azelphur> see my previous statement :P
<Azelphur> if a tablet PC was ~7" and a few mm thick with a day+ of battery life, I'd be sold
<daftykins> x85_: i too find OS X very yawn
<x85_> yea
<daftykins> and ubuntu doesn't really work quite right on them
<shauno> I just think it's slightly ironic, since anyone who's actually tried to stab their way around the start menu on a tablet PC, would stab themselves in the eye with a stylus before trying to put a desktop OS on a mobile device
<ali1234> yep
<x85_> daftykins: I'm at a loss of about $2000 because i fell for the shiny
<ali1234> "woooooo conveeeeeergence"
<daftykins> d'aww
<diddledan> I've got a surface pro 3, and quite like it
<zmoylan-pi> yet the psion organisers had no problems with menus with and without touchscreens
<diddledan> specifically though I'm mostly using it as a desk-mounted laptop
<x85_> cool
<x85_> i do have a pi
<Azelphur> shauno: I'd be quite happy with a tiny keyboard and a trackball/touchpad
<Azelphur> (which are a dime a dozen now days for tablets)
<ali1234> early psions didn't even have a touchscreen
<ali1234> late ones needed a stylus
<zmoylan-pi> the psions keyboards allowed me to type at 40wpm while walking around stock room
<daftykins> i still have my series 3c somewhere :D (Psion)
<Azelphur> yea, I had a psion, keyboard was actually really good
<zmoylan-pi> early psions had no touch screen but had drop down menus that worked great with keyboard
<x85_> can i go off topic a lil bit without being booted
<ali1234> drop down menus don't work with touch screens which is why ubuntu has all but removed them
<shauno> I assume they had a bespoke OS instead of a desktop OS then?
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's basically what the argument boils down to though, where's our psion form factor laptop :P
<ali1234> and windows as well for that matter, see ribbon
<daftykins> shauno: sure did
<zmoylan-pi> but the psion 5 had touch screen and kept the drop down menus and they worked fine
<daftykins> what was it called, EPOC or something like that?
<ali1234> Azelphur: it's called a asus transformer book
<shauno> x85_: everyone else does :)
<zmoylan-pi> epoc 16 for psions 3 and epoc 32 for psion 5
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's 13 inches...
<x85_> why does the pi 2 not run android?
<Azelphur> psion is more like 6
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: because it had a stylus
<zmoylan-pi> i like styluses
<Azelphur> x85_: probably WIP
<diddledan> x85_: because noone has ported it yet
<x85_> ok
<diddledan> the main sticking point is the gfx
<x85_> will 14.10 work on the pi 2
<diddledan> 14.10?
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> diddledan: ...ubuntu...14.10?
<diddledan> I'd be more worried about 15.04, Azelphur
<shauno> I think there's a few unofficial ports
<daftykins> *sigh* at #ubuntu PMers
 * Azelphur shrugs
<diddledan> daftykins: teehee
<shauno> I believe Mate have an image too
 * diddledan hides
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a risc os laptop with a pi2... :-D
<x85_> i got an older ubuntu version running on pi but for some reason i want the latest
<x85_> i can't find pre built images
 * daftykins has a flashback to the 3 buttoned mouses on the Acorns at his secondary school
<daftykins> man those things were pants.
<diddledan> ubuntu on a pi? as in version 1, not 2?
<shauno> fancy-pants southerners :/  we had bbc micros right up until tesco started doing their tokens for schools thing
<daftykins> x85_: LTS is where it's at
<diddledan> shauno: didn't those tokens for schools equip schools with acorns?
<x85_> daftykins: i assume i can upgrade to 14.10 anyway?
<shauno> linaro have a 14.10 image  (linaro 15.01 is their port of ubuntu 14.10)
<zmoylan-pi> did you have the rebadged psions the pocketbooks?
<x85_> shauno: im not keen because the image seems to be hosted on someones personal skydrive?
<shauno> probably.  there's no official ports
<shauno> (there's ubuntu snappy, but not ubuntu desktop.  the two seem so wildly different no-one's even sure where to begin explaining)
<x85_> i like rasbian but....its not (really ubuntu)
<zmoylan-pi> it's a distro optimised for original lower spec pi.  so a lot had to go
<x85_> wait could i not change the sources list to ubuntu's default?
<zmoylan-pi> but i quite like it.  i reckon i could now get by with pi2 as main system
 * x85_ assumes that will break stuff
<shauno> I think that's a safe assumption, but I couldn't articulate /why/  lol
<daftykins> x85_: the factor of things being available or not is whether someone has compiled the ubuntu packages for the given processor, which for ubuntu, they haven't
<daftykins> at least i think so
<zmoylan-pi> it's be like putting diesel in a petrol engine...
<x85_> dont lol
<shauno> I do wish ubuntu had done a proper port before muddying the waters with this snappy business
<zmoylan-pi> it'd be easier to get ballmer and stallman into same room than getting raspian to accept ubuntu repositories :-)
<x85_> there is arch but i find that to be a lil bit daunting
<x85_> lol zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> i do get the feeling arch is the Linux for ricers, kinda like gentoo :P
<diddledan> ubuntu snappy for pi is kinda like windows 10 for pi methinks
<zmoylan-pi> i think arch is for those who like to swear at their computers, at least those i know who use it seem to do it a lot :-D
<daftykins> :>
<x85_> so I'm guessing ima have to wait for both my hull and pi to run native ubuntu ?
<x85_> hudi frackin autocorrect
<x85_> l
<x85_> argh
<diddledan> iPad?
<x85_> macbook
<diddledan> aah
<x85_> that hurts to say here
<diddledan> hey, I'm on windows
<x85_> oh
<x85_> i feel better
<diddledan> :-p
<x85_> lolol
<zmoylan-pi> please let it be windows vista...
<daftykins> Windows here too, SSH'd to an ubuntu VM ;)
<diddledan> nah, 8.1
<daftykins> (for IRC)
<daftykins> reminds me, i've not got long left to replace these 10.04.4 VMs
<shauno> macbook too \o/  (and shamelessly loving it)
<diddledan> daftykins: upgrade to 15.04, via 14.10, via 14.04, via 13.10, via 13.04, via 12.10, via 12.04, via 11.10, via 11.04, via 10.10
<x85_> really shauno i find  OS X irritating
<daftykins> diddledan: that's not even necessary, plus i'd stick to LTS
<daftykins> so i *could* do -> 12.04 -> 14.04
<daftykins> except the VMs don't have the disk space :D
<diddledan> daftykins: I don't care if it's necessary, it would be awesome to watch you go through the pain
<daftykins> and i don't believe in upgrades
<daftykins> diddledan: you're kinda making me tempted to try it anyway
<diddledan> teehee
<daftykins> not sure i'll ever be that bored, though
<x85_> lol
<daftykins> plus it's a huge waste on the mirrors really
<diddledan> have you not seen the videos where windows 1.0 gets upgraded through every release to current-gen?
<x85_> that will hurt
<x85_> #vistawillkilleverything
<diddledan> someone should do one for ubuntu from the very first (warty warthog?)
<shauno> I don't do upgrades either.  I build a replacement while the old machine is still live, then migrate
<zmoylan-pi> but has to be done in a vm as hardware that would run original win 1.0 would just confuse xp as it tried to work out why you were installing it on a calculator
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> actually win1.0- will prolly work on anything with bios-compatibility
<zmoylan-pi> and that's only if you managed to snag xp on floppies to install
<shauno> 1/2/3 are surprisingly forgiving.  they care little about hardware if dos works
<diddledan> but vms make recording much easier, obv
<x85_> atleast android will sorta work alongside ubuntu i.e passing notifications from your cell to your desktop
<shauno> diddledan: random gossip re: "that other place".  it appears all the opers have thrown their toys out the pram, and left.  but left the bots running.
<shauno> just .. yaknow .. if trainwrecks are your thing
<diddledan> eep
 * diddledan joins
<daftykins> diddledan: oh your message was a notice not a PM 0o so i didn't see it 'til now ;)
<daftykins> food time, laters \o
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I guess my hiding was in vain then
<x85_> the linaro dl pages are confusing
<dogmatic69_> anyone know of something similar to sphinx search with a focus on stats and analytics
<dogmatic69_> I need something for doing reporting oh what would basically be faceted search with aggregation, avg, median and other such functions
<dogmatic69_> handy API that can be used over http would be good, eg rest
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: I'm currently playing with elasticsearch
<dogmatic69_> diddledan: I have been looking at that
<dogmatic69_> seems to be on the right track
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: I've imported the entire irclogs.ubuntu.com archive into it :-p
<dogmatic69_> I bascially want to insert something like date, value, key_1, key_2, key_n
<dogmatic69_> and then do finds grouped by keys, with conditions on keys and so on. and maths done on the value
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: I'm just now starting to work out how to actually provide a nice interface for the general population to query it
<dogmatic69_> diddledan: did you post the link before?
<dogmatic69_> I think I have seen that, or something similar
<diddledan> nope, it's not public yet
<dogmatic69_> ok, someone else posted a link with stuff here from irc
<diddledan> there's the stats run by brobostigon (I think) at tinyurl.com/uukstat
<diddledan> that's just for this channel tho
<diddledan> I'm thinking more broadly
<dogmatic69_> no, that was not the site
<MooDoo> evening all
<dogmatic69_> what can I delete from here http://pastebin.com/35LdazbA
<dogmatic69_> uname says 3.13.0-41-generic
<dogmatic69_> can I safely delete anything below 41?
<diddledan> dogmatic69_: apt-get autoremove should clear out old kernels
<dogmatic69_> oh
<dogmatic69_> so simple :)
<diddledan> I think that's been improved lately
<dogmatic69_> ok
<dogmatic69_> I am sure it never used to
<dogmatic69_> I get an error though
<diddledan> I seem to recall that someone mentioned that kernels are getting removed by new upgrades with no intervention
<dogmatic69_> nice
<dogmatic69_> I have tried resizing /boot
<dogmatic69_> its just a vm
<dogmatic69_> failed
<diddledan> you prolly want `sudo`
<dogmatic69_> I did sudo, its half installed a new kernel and bombed out.
<diddledan> eww
 * dogmatic69_ hopes second time lucky
<dogmatic69_> :/ this is after a bunch more text http://pastebin.com/h8ia7RVH
<diddledan> yeah, you'll need to clear out some of the oldest ones to allow it to proceed to uninstall those older ones
<diddledan> catch-22
<dogmatic69_> lol
<dogmatic69_> just delete all the 30ish ones
<dogmatic69_> bit of a mess, but seems to be sorted now. thanks diddledan
<diddledan> \o/
<ali1234> this is a funny bug
<ali1234> deleting browser history in firefox makes firefox use 100% CPU and places.sqlite-wal grow at about 200mb/minute
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> v37?
<ali1234> no, v36
<Azelphur> I've noticed Firefox performance issues too, I tried uninstalling flash and grabbing chrome for the occasions I still need it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-03
<ali1234> same result in safe mode
<ali1234> known bug reported nearly 2 years ago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=871908
<lubotu3`> Mozilla bug 871908 in Places "Clearing "browsing and download" history does excessive disc IO (due to huge wal file)" [Normal,New]
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<mapps> morning
<mapps> sup
<knightwise> <hey mapps , its friday , work email box exploding ... so i'm glad its weekend :)
<knightwise> but my raspberry pi 2 should arrive today .. thats good ! :)
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> i cant order one;/
<mapps> well can but not to here
<knightwise> realy ?  Arent you in the UK ?
<mapps> nah
<mapps> not anymore
<knightwise> where did you move to ?
<mapps> Gibraltar
<mapps> and you cant order anything here
<mapps> every time i go on amazon says 'not avaliable to deliver to gib'
<mapps> had to order my laptop to spain and my friend brought it into work
<mapps> i ordered a phone to UK asked my dad to send it here..cost him Â£46!! and took 2 weeks for me to get it
<mapps> its like very slow and backwards here
<knightwise> thats crud :(
<mapps> yea
<knightwise>  If I order my stuff @ amazon in germany it gets here in about 2 days without hassle
<mapps> like i could send something to anywhere in europe for way less
<mapps> but gibraltar isnt europe for post
<mapps> yet they like to have the benefits of apparently being part of europe due to being a british territory
<mapps> very very annoying
<mapps> you're stuck with the rubbish stores here
<mapps> buy an i3 laptop for the cost of an i7
<mapps> or a 42" tv for the cost of a 50" on amazon
<knightwise> Crud
<knightwise> We have all the stupid taxes when we order something from the US
<knightwise> its rediculous
<knightwise> Damn .. i wish they would get MIR8 working on my Surface Pro
<knightwise> I would love it if I could switch between a touch interface and a windowed interface on that device
<mapps> so youre in germany?
<knightwise> Belgium
<mapps> AHA
<mapps> been there
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> so you speak dutch
<mapps> close to german
<mapps> when ive looked at dutch some words are very similar
<mapps> ik hev..ik ben
<mapps> *heb#
<knightwise> I speak Dutch, French German and English
<mapps> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> i speak profanity, swearing with a smidgeon of cursing
<knightwise> Universal languages eh ! :)
<zmoylan-pi> and when a piece of hardware ignores those it's time for the hammer
<knightwise> good morning zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> What apps do you run on your pi except irc ?
<zmoylan-pi> newsbeuter for rss feeds
<zmoylan-pi> nano for text editing
<zmoylan-pi> a bit of bash
<zmoylan-pi> a bit of perl
<knightwise> irssi, newsbeuter, wordgrinder, ttytter, mps-youtube
<zmoylan-pi> a lot easier not to be distracted when there's no gui
<zmoylan-pi> i set up ttytter but stoped using it
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: correct
<zmoylan-pi> i might go back to it
<knightwise> its also my ssh end point
<zmoylan-pi> i keep meaning to access the pi from outside the home network but my knowledge of keeping it secure is too limited
<knightwise> good password policy and only signing in via public/privatekey allowed
<zmoylan-pi> and i also want to upgrade from current pi b to pi 2
<zmoylan-pi> then i could access the pi remotely from dumbphone making it a little smarter :-)
<zmoylan-pi> full linux terminal with a battery life measured in days
<zmoylan-pi> froma phone with a full qwerty keyboard
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: my rasp2 arrives today
<knightwise> i'm curious if i can just switch out the sd cards from one to the other
 * zmoylan-pi dons a fake mustache and waits outside knightwise's location to intercept delivery...
<zmoylan-pi> well my pi b uses sd card and pi2 uses microsd so not for me
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: Ah Crud ! i'll need to get a new card
<zmoylan-pi> thankfully available at every phone shop for those phones that use them
<knightwise> agreed
<zmoylan-pi> the 4gb sd card that came with the maplins pi starter kit i bought is now down to .9gb free.  so thinking maybe a 16gb card for new pi 2
<knightwise> hmm.. so that will be 16 gig card at list.
<knightwise> at least. Agreed
<zmoylan-pi> then maybe use the pi b with camera module as wildlife camera in garden
<knightwise> is it suitable for outdoor use ?
<zmoylan-pi> there are cases or make a housing
<knightwise> ps : are the cases on the pi and the pi2 the same ? No right
<zmoylan-pi> pi b only has 2 usb ports, b+ and 2 have 4
<knightwise> so.. so i'll need to break out the lego
<zmoylan-pi> like you needed an excuse...
<zmoylan-pi> remember to drop 1-2 pieces to find at 3am when barefoot walking to the loo
 * knightwise thinkin he will build a imperial stormtrooper style case
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't sound secure, those guys are terrible shots.  make a trekkie red shirt case, you know those guys will die to protect it...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: fair point
<knightwise> one does not take lightly to stormtroopers being mocked in this house
<knightwise> https://www.flickr.com/photos/knightwise/16337015253/
<zmoylan-pi> that's why they built the death star, it was easier to hit a planet than an individual person they're such bad shots :-P
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: you are not welcome in this house :p
<zmoylan-pi> did you see the death star bass speaker someone was selling on ebay a few years back.  it was huge. and amongst the comments was of course 'it's huge' 'cut the chatter red 6'
<knightwise> Lol
<knightwise> Ah
<knightwise> el raspberry pi is here
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , how are you today
 * knightwise just got his pi2 :) 
<knightwise> thing looks like heammoroid medication
<zmoylan-pi> do NOT apply pi2 to haemorroids...
<brobostigon> not bad, and you?
<knightwise> ok , Gotta go out and get me a micro sd card and start building a case for the pi2
<knightwise> i was wondering , you can run Ubuntu mate 15.04 on the pi2 , but is there also a 'regular' ubuntu server for the pi2 ?
<brobostigon> :)
 * dwatkins wanders in 
<dwatkins> Did AlanBell's "building Ubuntu on a cluster of Raspberry Pi machines" project go ok?
<penguin42> hmm, there's only one cinema around here showing Blade Runner and the choice is between 6pm on Easter Sunday or 8pm on Easter Monday; pretty awful time
<diddledan> artanoon
 * penguin42 hands diddledan a paint brush
 * diddledan pains penguin42 
<diddledan> paints*
<penguin42> hmm
<Myrtti> bought a colouring book \o/
<penguin42> one of these de-stress trendy ones?
<Myrtti> yeah
<Myrtti> I can reuse it as art for my mobile phone case later on
<Myrtti> I've got one with the clear back, I've got cardboard from Yorkshire Tea pack at the moment. well not the pack, a card they sent me
<penguin42> hmm, they do good adverts
<Myrtti> oh? I don't watch telly so I wouldn't know. Or read magazines.
<penguin42> Myrtti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVjiGWUhHnw
 * penguin42 doesn't drink tea
<Myrtti> little urn!
<penguin42> that's actually a longer edit than the version I've seen on TV I think
<Myrtti> nice
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diddledan> moo
<zmoylan-pi> *bark*
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you've got to doo a moo for MooDoo
<zmoylan-pi> would you settle for a harumph?
<diddledan> yeah, that'll do
<MooDoo> sounds good to me :D
<diddledan> when do we get our chocolate eggs?
<diddledan> I want one now
<penguin42> on Tuesday when they go on discount
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> tis still the season of the discount selection box
<penguin42> thing is I don't care about the shape of my chocolate; so I'm not going to pay more for egg/rabbit shaped chocolate
<x85> hey
<zmoylan-pi>             ho
<x85> i ended up returning the hudl
<x85> an irritating issue with the battery put me off the device
<penguin42> it ran out?
<x85> no despite being plugged into the mains it refused to charge unless turned off
<penguin42> hmm, yeh that's not good
<zmoylan-pi> sounds brokeny
<x85> I'm looking for a cheap way to run linux because I'm trying to get away from apple
<x85> i can manage about 120 cos apple made me poor
<penguin42> x85: The ~Â£150 chromebooks/laptops ?
<penguin42> ah, 120 hmm a bit tight
<x85> yea
<x85> i have a pi 2 but that doesn't run unity all too well
<zmoylan-pi> i thought you couldn't install linux on the $150 chromebooks?  and they won't be 150 when they get this side of the pond
<penguin42> yeh, they'll be at least Â£150
<zmoylan-pi> and when they get to ireland a chunk more
<penguin42> x85: I believe there's a Dell equivalent to that x86 tablet that's been made to run Fedora OK
<x85> well i could bump to 200 and make and excuse to my wife lmao
<penguin42> haha
<zmoylan-pi> whatever the least favourable exchange rate is plus a few % on top
<penguin42> x85: You can get 2nd hand netbooks for ~Â£100
<x85> penguin42: i've been tempted by that before unless you know of a decent brand
<x85> the intel nuc looks cool
<zmoylan-pi> oxfam do a nice line in refurb 2nd hand laptops with 90 day warranty
<penguin42> x85: Actually, yes, you might be able to put together a nuc for that type of price
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Oh, not tried oxfam, I've bought a few things from CEX
<zmoylan-pi> you can get them with win7 and avoid the uefi nonsense
<x85> i doesn't like UEFI
<x85> idk i miss my linux freedom
<x85> :(
<x85> le sigh
<shauno> I wonder what hardware can actually use tianocore
<directhex> It's Complicated(tm)
<directhex> tianocore isn't an entire implementation. you can't use it as-is on real hardware..... but most real-world implementations are tianocore-based
<directhex> you can get kvm to use tianocore, but it lacks minor details like nvram support, so you can't save any settings or installed os locations
<directhex> x85: i *wish* i had uefi on my desktop. bios is total 1970s crud
<directhex> and has 0% to do with freedom vs. not freedom
<x85> MacBooks are worse lmao
<penguin42> yeh, you've got to differentiate between UEFI and secure/trusted boot - they're completely separate issues
<directhex> and secure boot as a general concept provides beneficial extra features to the end user
<x85> hmm what about combining pi's to run the ubuntu desktop is that possible?
<penguin42> no
<directhex> no.
<directhex> there are better ARM dev boards than the pi, if that's the route you want to take
 * penguin42 would expect the Pi2 might have a chance
<directhex> Pi is pretty much bottom of the pile
 * penguin42 notes Pi is the start of pile
<directhex> pi only becomes usable via various hacks like a custom wayland compositor and custom browser
<x85> i just want a semi cheap machine to run ubuntu
<directhex> second hand?
 * x85 *cries*
<x85> not if it can be helped
<x85> i want to throw my MBP
<x85> lol
<x85> why did i fall for the shiny
<directhex> ebuyer will sell you a laptop for GBP160
<penguin42> so why don't you just install it on your MBP?
<x85> penguin42: that feels wrong morally and i don't want to have to mod the boot process
<directhex> any mbp, regardless of age, has a crazy high resale value
<penguin42> x85: You don't need to modify stuff, MBP is just a PC
<directhex> i'm on a mbp w/ ubuntu right now.
<directhex> penguin42: with a crap firmware tho
<directhex> penguin42: and crap components by broadcom
<penguin42> directhex: That crap?
<directhex> penguin42: well the webcam doesn't work, wifi doesn't work after suspend, and wifi barely works pre-suspend
<directhex> penguin42: and upgrading the osx partition to 10.10 totally screwed with dual-booting
<penguin42> impressively screwed up
<directhex> i "fixed" it, but it now takes 30s longer to boot
<x85> it is doable of course but it just doesn't sit right
<shauno> well, they work, just linux has terribad hardware supprt.  it's not a desktop OS.
<directhex> broadcom fights to stop driver support on linux.
<x85> i guess i'll just go to cex
<m0nkey_> bah, why does it have to be a public holiday today?
<m0nkey_> parts for my PC build are on the island. but wont be delivered until monday.
<penguin42> m0nkey_ island?
<directhex> cex is crazy overpriced for pc stuff. but a cash converters or similar pawn shop might have undervalued stuff
<penguin42> yeh cex can be fun when you spot something that's got a good price - but they do a 6month guarantee
<directhex> ebuyer will sell desktops for GBP150, if you don't want a laptop for GBP160
<m0nkey_> penguin42, heh yeah.. island. Montreal.
 * m0nkey_ is a brit ex-pat
<x85> ex-pat?
<x85> moved out of uk?
<penguin42> I was going to joke about you moving out to get some warmth, but but Montreal....
<m0nkey_> lol
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno, apart from the moose attacks it's probably still more pleasent weather... :-)
<penguin42> do you class moose attacks as weather?
<zmoylan-pi> lots of spittle :-)
<Myrtti> I fixed my "I need more stuff from Amazon" problem by buying a pack of colouring pencils ^____^
<mapps> well thats annoying
<mapps> ts a holy day so nowhere open..i thought the store would be but reduced hours
<mapps> thought morrisons would be open till 4/5
<SuperEngineer> mapps, they are as far as we know not closing down prior to 4th May... is there something you know that we don't
<SuperEngineer> & if you do know something - tell their poor underpaid staff!
<mapps> hah;]
<mapps> had mcdonalds for lunch gonna have to get a kebab fkr dinner
<dogmatic69_> omg http://store.steampowered.com/app/347250/
<dogmatic69_> Many hours spent on that game
<shauno> odd.  I wonder why the publisher have decided to stick pictures of a f117 all over a game called f19
<ali12341> shauno: because when the game was made nobody knew the real codename of the aircraft
<ali12341> the later rereleased the same game as f117
<shauno> oh the game has it right.  but not whoever's rebundled it
<ali12341> no, the game was released by microprose under both names back in the day
<shauno> right, I had f-117 on the amiga
<ali12341> "MicroProse released the game on the same day that the United States military first admitted the existence of its F-117A Nighthawk stealth fighter.[2] Before the game's release many had speculated on a missing aircraft in the United States Air Force's numbering system, the F-19.  The game was based on an educated guess about what the secret stealth  fighter would be like. Subsequent revisions of the game incorporated the  actual F-117 as well as
<shauno> well, I still think it's jarring that the aircraft on the box isn't the one used in their marketting
<ali12341> the box... on steamplay?
<shauno> to be clear, I'm talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19_Stealth_Fighter
<shauno> you're conflating it with 2.0, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Hawk:_F-117A_Stealth_Fighter_2.0
<ali12341> the "f19" looks almost identical to an f117 because they looked at photos taken by the kind of people who make a hobby out of photographing top secret experimental aircraft
<shauno> almost identical in that they both have wings?
<shauno> otherwise one has the face-on profile of a flying saucer, the other looks like a pyramid
<ali12341> seems like the game was released with two different covers
<ali12341> http://wordofthenerdonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/07/Z0072320.jpg vs http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ybkDh_6XARU/U4rkUipKOmI/AAAAAAAAAck/fIz9jncUYY0/s1600/ebay1.jpg
<ali12341> yeah so i just don't get where you're seeing a f117 on a f19 cover
<ali12341> anyway, these were really good games back in the day
<ali12341> pretty much the perfect balance between arcade fun and simulation
<ali12341> someone should remake them with nicer graphics
<shauno> right, that's why I was complaining about it being a different aircraft shown in the marketting (on dogmatic's link)
<shauno> the video, the headshot, don't use the same aircraft shown in-game, on the box, etc
<foobarry> guys, who's tried the arc welder thing to run android apps from chrome!?!
<foobarry> its great
<foobarry> running evernote atm
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> in lieu of a real android device?
<foobarry> complements it
<foobarry> because evernote on linux sucks
<foobarry> the web interface sucks
<foobarry> and wine does too
 * zmoylan-pi misses the palm os memo app with desktop syncing
<zmoylan-pi> these days i use a text file on dropbox and have it favourited on tablet
<foobarry> i'm going whole hog lately
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmmm, bacon
<foobarry> taking photos of things and sharing other notes for collab etc
<zmoylan-pi> i take loads of pics but leave the pics on the phone and just refer to tham as i need them
<zmoylan-pi> apart from those put up on twitter
<foobarry> i write shopping lists and look at them while in front of the things
<foobarry> like in b&q etc
<zmoylan-pi> i just throw them into memopad on nokia dumbphone as that will be in my pocket as i listen to radio/mp3s on it while out and about
<foobarry> microserver going cheap http://www.ebuyer.com/517760-hp-proliant-gen8-g1610t-microserver-712317-421
<daftykins> oh ebuyer, don't even list the spec
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/16401104064/ simmost sitte
<Myrtti> ie. "and that is how the cookie crumbles"
<diddledan> Myrtti: that's pretty
<Myrtti> I see now why they've printed the pattern only on one side of the page
<Myrtti> printing on the next page is transferred on the back of the page being coloured because of the pressure
<dogmatic69_> ali12341: the graphics is on par with minecraft :P
<mapps> time to go get some dinner;D
<x85> hi hi
<daftykins> oh hello again
<x85> daftykins: hey hows you
<daftykins> not bad ta, yourself?
<x85> not bad i ended up taking the hull back to tesco
<daftykins> ah right
<x85> charging issues
<daftykins> mmm that was a bit of a drawback
<x85> that and its still running 4.4.2?
<daftykins> i think that's why it's so cheap
<daftykins> no future :D
<x85> lol
<x85> i hate manufactures that do that 1 or 2 updates then nada
<daftykins> do the hudls even get any at all?
<x85> im not sure
<daftykins> truth is the constant version update culture doesn't actually gain much other than bragging rights
<x85> yea
<daftykins> as long as security fixes are backported anywho
<x85> i guess android isn't really a major thing for me
<daftykins> i'm ok with it on my phone but that's about as far as it goes :>
<x85> i would indeed like to see a native ubuntu slab
 * penguin42 still assumes it's possible to get a hudl to run ubuntu 
<x85> probably is but i don't want to wait lol
<x85> i don't care if all i have is a terminal
<x85> lol
<daftykins> tends to be best to buy things that are capable of something, not before they are :>
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-04
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<MooDoo> happy birthday popey :D
<MartijnVdS> Happy Popeyday!
<brobostigon> morning boy and girls.
<knightwise> morning MartijnVdS brobostigon
<popey> \o/ thanks MooDoo MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> happy birthday hrh popey'ness
<popey> ta
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<brobostigon> yw.
 * brobostigon is using his imagination abit.
<jussi> Happy birthday popey, you have a very distinguished day for a birthday :D
<zmoylan-pi> distinguished?
<mapps> :D
<Myrtti> new kettle \o/
 * zmoylan-pi is not sure a kettle is worth getting excited over... unless it runs linux of course...
<Myrtti> well considering that we've been thinking about getting a new one for a few years and considered about it for over a month, it's a good achievement.
<Myrtti> http://www.johnlewis.com/cuisinart-cpk17u-multi-temperature-kettle-silver/p621260
<zmoylan-pi> ah the putting it off as next years kettles will blow away this years kettles conundrum... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i only replaced the kettle this year as they brought in water charges and the spout on old one had miniscule leak
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti, if it does run on Linux, you can be sure it'll run *Steam* ;)
<zmoylan-pi> hold on a moment... and no one gave you a fantastic new kettle for wedding present??
<zmoylan-pi> my brother got around a dozen toasters for his wedding in the 80s. still hasn't used all them
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: we specifically requested no physical presents
<funkyHat> All toasters, no kettles
<zmoylan-pi> ah
<Myrtti> well, we specifically requested NO presents
<Myrtti> so a lot of people gave us cards with information on the charity they donated to
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i would have ignored the no physical pressie rule.  but i would have made the pressie a doozie
<zmoylan-pi> to the norwegian friends who didn't want big gifts i sent a massive box of lego instead. lego vikings... it felt right to send vikings from ireland to norway in revenge :-P
<Myrtti> well many people understood that since we don't live in Finland, we'd have trouble transporting the presents back home
<Myrtti> and we didn't have a gift registry either for getting stuff home delivered.
 * penguin42 should get a new kettle, the current one sometimes gets upset and turns itself off
<penguin42> Myrtti: Â£58?! for a kettle?!
<zmoylan-pi> i sent it to their home in norway, should have seen the faces in the post office when the box wouldn't fit through hatch.
<Myrtti> penguin42: it was 'cheap' for a 'smart' kettle
<zmoylan-pi> it does algebra? :-)
<penguin42> Myrtti: smart? For that price I'd expect it to drink it for me
<Myrtti> you're welcome to check the prices of other kettles that you can choose the water temperature - prices usually start from 70
<penguin42> do you need to choose the water temp?
<zmoylan-pi> an external temperature gauge would do the trick
<Myrtti> it's nice for some teas and hot cordials?
<Myrtti> but I'm not forcing anyone to buy the same kettle...
<penguin42> Myrtti: But out of interest, it's a cuisinart and I've just got one of their ice cream machines, it seems well made but pretty basic
<zmoylan-pi> no, a kettle like a lot of tech is not a one size fits all product.
<penguin42> Myrtti: Yeh, I could argue but then I've got a slowly healing scald on one finger from a too hot cordial
 * zmoylan-pi remembers fondly the kettle my mother used in 70s on gas oven which was ancient even then
<penguin42> I think we have one of those for doomsday situations
<zmoylan-pi> i have a kelly kettle for disasters all ready.  nowt but the best...
<penguin42> what's that?
<zmoylan-pi> volcano kettle that will boil a kettle of water with just an old magazine newspaper for fuel. http://www.kellykettle.com/
<penguin42> oh ok, I don't worry about that level of disaster
<zmoylan-pi> i had always wanted one since i saw one in the 70s.  just a weirdly cool tech to my mind
<Azelphur> Does anyone know if a power strip exists, that has UK/US/EU outputs, and takes UK/US/EU input?
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't that be bigger than 2-3 power strips and silly money?
<penguin42> Azelphur: You'd need two different transformers to do that wouldn't you?
<penguin42> a small UPS would almost be the easiest answer to that
<Azelphur> penguin42, no you don't? no adapter needs that
<penguin42> Azelphur: OK, so you just want physical adapters?
<Azelphur> penguin42, yea, any device I plugged into it would support 110-240V
<Azelphur> penguin42, I get around a lot xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you had a strip with multiple types of output then you could use that together with one of the multiplugs that will go into anything
<Azelphur> penguin42, yea that's what I'm tempted to do, was just hoping to find something that does it all in one go
<zmoylan-pi> might be easier to get stuff that would charge off usb and then buy biggest usb chearger for any trip?
<penguin42> Azelphur: http://www.p-wholesale.com/cn-pro/17/146to2/power-strip-141528.html   will that take all the plugs you need?
<Azelphur> penguin42, not sure, doesn't mention what type of input it has?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Who cares if you put one of those multiple type adapters on the input
<Azelphur> penguin42, true just trying tp space save
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: That might become possible with USB-C
<zmoylan-pi> unless someone *cough* apple *cough* make their own wacky version
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It's standard isn't it?
<zmoylan-pi> there are standards and their are /enhanced/ standards...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I think they actually followed it this time; the only dumb thing they did was only putting one on the system
<penguin42> Azelphur: The thing is I can't think of a design that would fulfill your needs except by putting an adapter on the input, you can't have multiple input leads - unless you use one that has an input lead which would probably take even more space, but I bet there are blocks that take kettle leads
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a local plug to cigarette adapter and a cigarette adapter powered inverter...
<penguin42> Azelphur: Or just chop the input plug off and put a c13 on,  although remember you've probably not got any fusing at that point
<Azelphur> penguin42, yea I was thinking its plug would be a universal one
<Azelphur> but I can just put a universal adapter
<penguin42> Azelphur: I've never seen a universal plug
<zmoylan-pi> well 2 wires wrapped around matches probably doesn't count... :-)
<penguin42> Azelphur: http://jinggoal.en.alibaba.com/product/389353719-210192640/Universal_plug.html   !!!!
<penguin42> is that thing real?
<penguin42> it looks scary
<zmoylan-pi> transformers... robots in disguise...
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.getdatgadget.com/kikkerland-universal-travel-adapter/
<Azelphur> penguin42, I have one of them
<Azelphur> In fact I have 4 of them...
<zmoylan-pi> and i also liked but haven't heard of recently the folding uk adapter... https://www.themu.co.uk/
<mapps> 25c to now raining;D
<zmoylan-pi> 9c and cloudy, a nice weekend in dublin
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It's been about 10c but pretty sunny here over here to the east of you in Manc
<zmoylan-pi> it's odd as usually bank holiday weekends are guaranteed damp, windy occasions
<zmoylan-pi> followed by a day of beautiful sunshine when everyone has gone back to work just to rub it in
<penguin42> yesterday was awful though
<Myrtti> ohmygawd the new kettle might have just revolutionised my lunches
<Myrtti> cup-a-soups. cup-a-soups for everyone. no need to scald mouth anymore
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: is it one of those heathen kettles with a temperature knob?
<Myrtti> yeah
<Myrtti> see discussion approx. 4 hours earlier
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> sounds high tech
<Myrtti> oh my god the 4k display
<penguin42> on your kettle?
<daftykins> ?
<Myrtti> no, hubby's new laptop. It looks and works pretty badly with the nVidia drivers, but using the Intel integrated and watching videos...
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/+DuncanSample/posts/JQJb656Xpmb
<Myrtti> we're watching a GoPro video and it is eye watering on this display
<daftykins> nvidia prime?
<Myrtti> yeah.
<daftykins> i'd be curious as to whether your hubby tried a newer driver than is available in repos
<daftykins> depending on what the nvidia chip is and which OS version this is
<m0nkey_> I'd say try a different DE
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-05
<daftykins> tum-te-tum
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoytS3930aY - GTA V PC 60fps trailer
<mapps> this series american crime is good
<mapps> will prob start game of thrones soon;)
<daftykins> i've never been into that more fantasy type stuff
<mapps> i wasnt interested..but everyone rants and raves about it..so i figure i should check it
<mapps> gonna see fast and frious 7 on monday
<mapps> O_o
<daftykins> lol
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> greetings mammals, reptiles, amphibians, bacteria.  but not viruses...
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> so has everyone stuffed their faces with easter eggs?
<brobostigon> no.
<zmoylan-pi> holding out till tomorrow when they'll all be on sale? :-P
<brobostigon> nah, i dont get chocolate eggs, due to being allergic to cows milk.
<zmoylan-pi> no chocolate at all...
<brobostigon> they do make chocolate with soya milk/
<zmoylan-pi> hands up those who think that is chocolate... :-)
<shauno> I don't do easter eggs because it feels like there's some rule against buying them for yourself :)
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you buy a few for friends and accidently have one left over... :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<shauno> I did go out to the aran islands though, so the 'holiday weekend' doesn't feel like a complete wash
<zmoylan-pi> it's a desolate barren wasteland... :-)
<shauno> ah it's fun to go cycle around.  and I met some rather enthusiastic folk from saskatchewan
<zmoylan-pi> is it this weekend they have the fr. ted celebration there?
<zmoylan-pi> ah, last month
<Myrtti> the best usage for a 4K display: watching youtube videos of frying bacon.
<Myrtti> well, actually I disagree, the best video so far was mini cooking
<Myrtti> pocket cooking 4k
<m0nkey_> He likes his new toy, huh?
<diddledan> I want new toys
<Myrtti> he does.
<m0nkey_> I'm waiting for my new PC parts to be delivered. Hopefully they're show up tomorrow.
<diddledan> bank holiday here tomorrow
<m0nkey_> Not here
<m0nkey_> UPS is open tomorrow.
<diddledan> bloomin foreigners :-p
<Myrtti> expats
<Myrtti> or emigrants
<diddledan> same diff :-D
<diddledan> treehee
 * m0nkey_ drools thinking about his i5 and GTX960
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> I do fancy myself a titan-x
<diddledan> overkill somewhat methinks :-p
<m0nkey_> This is everything I ordered. Minus the Windows license.. http://secure.newegg.ca/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=20107689
<m0nkey_> Also, didn't get the RAM or Blu-ray.. Have RAM, have a DVD-burner I'm going to use in the mean time.
<zmoylan-pi> no floppy drive? :-)
<diddledan> I don't suppose ther mobo has an FDC
<zmoylan-pi> 5.25" just to confuse people...
<m0nkey_> Only SATA. IDE and AT connections are surprisingly absent.
<zmoylan-pi> not connected or anything, just in the front of the case connected to power so it lights up...
<directhex> it's 2015.
<diddledan> I've got a 5.25" fdd in my c2q machine
<zmoylan-pi> so no punch cards!! :-P
<directhex> including an IDE connector involves adding an entire PCI bus, to add a PCI IDE controller
<m0nkey_> I think I went a little overboard with a 500GB SSD :)
<zmoylan-pi> when you could have gotten a 4tb hdd cheaper... :-)
<diddledan> I've got an evo 1TB in my desktop
<m0nkey_> Heh, that's what the NAS is for.
<m0nkey_> Got 4x2TB drives in that
<directhex> all of which are discontinued now anyway
<shauno> I was actually just looking at a NAS.  I'm not entirely clear on what Synology are trying to do?
<shauno> they seem to have a good reputation, but it says it has a dhcp server but not a dhcp client, vpn support, etc .. it seems like it's trying to be more than a disk in a box?
<zmoylan-pi> i think all the nas try to be more than a nas these days.
<zmoylan-pi> a cpu with delusions of server
<m0nkey_> shauno, built my own running FreeNAS
<m0nkey_> Depends on how much you want to spend. Yeah, you could spend a crap load on a Synology or QNAP, or it could work out cheaper to build your own. For me, it was the latter.
<m0nkey_> Got an E3 Xeon, 16GB ECC, 4x2TB for about the price of a fully loaded Synology.
<shauno> I was looking at that, but the mythical cheap hp microservers don't seem to exist here
<m0nkey_> Wow, the british pound is a rip-off right now.
<m0nkey_> Same box over here is under $400 .. http://www.ebuyer.com/670719-lenovo-thinkserver-ts140-4gb-xeon-e3-1226-v3-3-3ghz-1tb-hdd-tower-server-70a50022uk
<zmoylan-pi> strong currency = less exports but great if you want to go on holiday
<m0nkey_> This is another box popular with FreeNAS. http://www.ebuyer.com/517760-hp-proliant-gen8-g1610t-microserver-712317-421
<shauno> yeah, that's the one I was looking at.  the irish price is quite a bit higher  lol
<zmoylan-pi> might have a look around dublin for pi 2 again, and pick up more ammo for my nerfs
<m0nkey_> I forgot you're in Ireland now.
<shauno> HP list it starting over 500e :/
<diddledan> ooh, the microserver has cashback again
<shauno> yeah.  that's the other catch.  the cashback thing doesn't run very often here.  not since christmas 2013 :/
<diddledan> 119.99 is an awesome deal
<shauno> and ebuyer don't deliver to ireland anymore because they're still stamping their feet over the VAT thing :/
<diddledan> grr
<m0nkey_> shauno, don't you get the 1 quid trips to the UK? :)
<shauno> heh, that wouldn't help much .. everything's mail-order these days
<shauno> (and HP won't honor the Â£100 cashback thing here, you have to wait until the irish version is running)
<mapps> argh
<mapps> i set windows to 'do nothing' when i plug in my android phone..now i cant get it to show the phone as a usb mass storage device..ow can i reset that so when i plug the phone in it opens the drive up in a folder view
<mapps> grmpf
<diddledan> phones don't default to mass storag3e mode
<diddledan> if it's android you need to select the option from the notifications dropdown
<mapps> im on windows8..i cant see that
<diddledan> pulldown**
<mapps> diddledan i mean before whe ni plugged the phone in it came up asking what to do
<mapps> i chose do nothing
<mapps> oops:P
<diddledan> on the phone, not in windows
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i get what you mean therebut when you plug a phone into a windows machine it has that popup remember saying what do you want to do
<mapps> open files etc
<diddledan> yes I know
<diddledan> that won't magically put the phone in mass storage mode tho
<mapps> yea i went to storag and ie ticked media device (mtp)
<mapps> but it still doesnt show in windows..it doesnt bring that window up since i clicked do nothing
<diddledan> tried using explorer?
<mapps> yep
<diddledan> 'cos if it's mounted you'll see it there
<diddledan> if it ain't then  windows doesn't kno9w what it is
<mapps> yea
<mapps> because i selected do nothing no?
<mapps> gah
<mapps> this sucks
<diddledan> no
<zmoylan-pi> the flaw as i see it is you're using windows... :-)
<mapps> well it's set asmedia device (mtp) on the phone
<diddledan> do nothing just tells it not to open new windows
<diddledan> it'll still mount if it would have shown you that prompt but doesn't because you said not to
<diddledan> mtp isn't mass storage
<mapps> thought it was
<mapps> well then how do i set it as mass storage
<diddledan> mtp is a shim because the phone would need to unmount to allow the computer exclusiver access
<mapps> i only see
<mapps> mtp or ptp]
<diddledan> ptp is for photos
<diddledan> mtp is for music
<mapps> ya
<mapps> wheres mass storage option then i see nothing
<diddledan> tried prodding the mtp  notice?
<mapps> notice? i ticked the tickbox on the android settings and nothing else happens;)
<diddledan> have you even looked in the notifications pulldoiwn that I said to at the beginning?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> nothing there
<diddledan> there should be a notice that usb is connected
<mapps> honestly nothing
<diddledan> if there isn't then usb isn't connected
<mapps> its connected to the laptop
<mapps> but no notification
<mapps> aha
<mapps> now it says connected as camera
<mapps> yay its working again:DDD
<diddledan> what did you change?
<mapps> just unplugged cvable a few times
<mapps> maybe its just a dodgy cable;/
<zmoylan-pi> and logged in as nsa... :-)
<mapps> altho it did make the noise that a usb device was plugged in
<mapps> but its connected as a media device
<mapps> so i cant transfer files
<mapps> lol
<directhex> you can do mostly arbitrary file transfer over MTP
<mapps> hm
<directhex> but iirc MSC as an option is gone in stock android
<mapps> yea it is
<mapps> im just getting pesky errors
<mapps> device is disconnected or not responding but i can browse the fs
<mapps> and i can use the phone so it is working;)
<popey> \o/ mtp
<dogmatic69_> eh, you can get steam gift cards at tesco now
<penguin42> blade runner is still a great film
<zmoylan-pi> which version? :-)
<penguin42> final, just seen it in a cinema
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, saw it had been rereleased, have it on dvd but might make a pilgramage to see it on big screen
<penguin42> yeh, always wanted to see it on the big screen
<zmoylan-pi> with good sound system for vangelis soundtrack
<penguin42> yes, excellent - and it was digital projection
<zmoylan-pi> like 2001 before it set the standard by which scifi was measured and still has resonance today
<penguin42> nod
<zmoylan-pi> and considering it was done before cgi the effects were excellent
<penguin42> actually the cityscapes work great on the big screen which really shows you how well done it is
<shauno> silly question, but does steam still work for everyone else?
<popey> wfm
<shauno> hm.  I keep getting "cannot connect to the steam network"
<popey> lemme close / reopen it
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a ddos?
<popey> hah
<popey> you bast
<popey> I can't connect now :)
<shauno> lol, you're welcome
<popey> re-entered my pw and its back in
<shauno> this is the problem I'm having.  I don't know my password.  and the recovery bit seems even more out-of-service than the login bit
<popey> i spy bigcalm playing games
<bigcalm> Is Steam telling tails?
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> Hopefully it will be saying that I'm playing GTA V on the 14th
<bigcalm> E_TOO_MUCH_CHOCOLATE
 * bigcalm wanders off to his Easter coma
<diddledan> well done, bigcalm
 * penguin42 isn't sure such an overflow condition is possible
 * bashrc has not consumed much chocolate
<Myrtti> our Cities started crashing and got it working by putting Steam on offline mode.
<Myrtti> that was weird
<Myrtti> happened few hours ago tho
<zmoylan-pi> i had some cheap choccy digestives with coffee earlier. was never into easter eggs, they always seem such bad value
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: That's why I start hunting them on Tuesday
<Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: oh you should try the Finnish Mignon eggs
<zmoylan-pi> be careful, a cornered easter egg is dangerous... :-)
<Myrtti> unless you're allergic to eggs or hazelnuts
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I can imagine, they're not used to corners
<Myrtti> too bad they can't really be found anywhere
<zmoylan-pi> i used to like kinder eggs but the toys in them over the last decade have gotten terrible
<Myrtti> mignon eggs are hazelnut nougat filled real eggshells
<Myrtti> it's like five tablespoons of solid Nutella
<Myrtti> well actually it's tastes even better than Nutella
<zmoylan-pi> used to be you got tiny parts to assemble but health and safety eliminated those
<zmoylan-pi> and they changed the recipie of cadbury creme eggs
<popey> 23:01 < bigcalm> Hopefully it will be saying that I'm playing GTA V on the 14th
<popey> same
<popey> I may take the day off
<popey> assuming it downloads ahead of time
<popey> also need to consider a new video card
<m0nkey_> PCMR still don't have GTA V?
<popey> yeah, 9 days
<m0nkey_> Heh, I've played through it twice. Once on PS3, then again on PS4. In fact, still play online on PS4. Great fun, you're going to love it!
<m0nkey_> I may even triple dip and get for PC too
<popey> :)
<popey> I've not played at all
<popey> Just watched quite a lot of youtubers playing it
<m0nkey_> Seriously, you're in for a treat!
<popey> \o/
<m0nkey_> It's fantastic on PS4, can only imaging what it'll be like on PC.
 * m0nkey_ 's PC parts should arrive tomorrow
<popey> I have not pre-ordered on steam before
<popey> what video card you getting / got?
<m0nkey_> Erm..
<m0nkey_> ASUS Strix GTX 960
 * popey adds to list to look at
<m0nkey_> All of this: http://secure.newegg.ca/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=20107689
<m0nkey_> Minus the RAM, Win8.1 and Blu-ray
<m0nkey_> I have RAM, I have a DVD-writer. They can wait to be upgraded.
<popey> i5, interesting
<m0nkey_> The Strix GTX960 is supposed to be almost silent.
<m0nkey_> Fans only come on under heavy load
<m0nkey_> PSU is also silent
<popey> is this to go under telly?
<popey> i like the case
<m0nkey_> Nope, but it is in the living room, so I want it to be quiet.
<m0nkey_> They case is gorgeous! I have that part already.
<popey> wise
<popey> ooh, bed time
<popey> will look at that in the morning, thanks!
<m0nkey_> All vents have dust guards
<m0nkey_> I may get a 240mm radiator for CPU liquid cooling, but going to start off with stock.
<penguin42> I found the stock i7 cooler on my i7-860 (5 years old now ish) was awful - CPU hit 90c, put a decent fan on and it never blinks
<m0nkey_> Hmm, Windows 8.1 is $107. It appears to have gone down $12.
<m0nkey_> Going to need a Windows license for my Windows only gaming :/
<zmoylan-pi> could surround the case with cushions for sound dampening... finally a use for cushions... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> does a windows licence give you the right to hunt a windows pc? :-P
<m0nkey_> Something like that
<webpigeon> Careful it's not an upgrade licence or something
<m0nkey_> It's a retail license
<m0nkey_> Direct from the MS store
<daftykins> m0nkey_: hrmm i wouldn't bother if i were you :P
<daftykins> the pirates are getting 10 free! :)
<m0nkey_> meh
<m0nkey_> there's got to be a catch
<daftykins> it is possible that they'll charge a nominal fee, but they've been quite vague about it so far
<zmoylan-pi> suspiciously vague
<m0nkey_> to be fair, I don't mind paying. had I still be at home, living with my parents, then yeah.. I'd pirate it. But today, I don't mind paying for software where it's warranted.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i've always bought Windows when there's been a good new version
<daftykins> XP back in the day, then 7
<m0nkey_> I'm probably the only person in the world that has a legal Office 2010 license
<daftykins> i did foolishly get the Â£20 win8 upgrade but i somewhat regret that
<daftykins> haha
<zmoylan-pi> windows for workgroups 3.11 :-)
<m0nkey_> I think 8.1 is pretty good.
<zmoylan-pi> peer to peer networking, printer sharing...
<m0nkey_> I bought Windows 7 back when, I bought Windows 8 upgrade when they did the promo. 8 sucked, 8.1 is pretty good.
<daftykins> i'm still not very fond since if i lay my finger down on the centre-right of the touchpad, it brings up the charms menu
<daftykins> i'm sure there are ways to stop the kinda 'hot zones' but i'm still not fond
<zmoylan-pi> charms on windows 8 was unusable, i think they've eliminated them on 10
<m0nkey_> anywho.. Win10 will be a free upgrade
<daftykins> seems that way yeah
<m0nkey_> So, I either buy 8.1 now, or wait till July.
<daftykins> indeed! i'm feeling oddly quite excited about 10
<daftykins> right time to get some food on :P
<m0nkey_> the tech preview is actually pretty good
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-04
<mapps> morning
<mapps> any night owls still around;]
<knightWork> mornin peeps
<dwatkins> allo allo
<knightWork> hey dwatkins , how are you   ?
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightWork> hey MooDoo :) How are you today dude
<MooDoo> knightWork: hols in a week, so getting better :D
<knightWork> I"m leaving for the coast of france on wednesday for a couple of days of RR
<MooDoo> knightWork: we'll be in paris or there abouts.
<knightWork> MooDoo: i'll be near calais
<MooDoo> nice, :)
<knightWork> https://www.google.be/maps/place/Cap+Blanc+Nez/@50.9254316,1.6981468,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x47dc3ca29e35c6b7:0xf3432f38c815d345?hl=en
<knightWork> you can see the little camp site just south of the peak
<MooDoo> lovely
<knightWork> No wifi , no 3g , just some music, some books, a lot of walkies and some tea
<zmoylan-1i> and a hard drive strapped to your leg with 2tb of cat videos... :-P
<knightWork> LOL :)
<knightWork> couple of books and some movies
<knightWork> probably gonna take carl sagans COSMOS with ut
<knightWork> s
<zmoylan-pi> watched that for the first time since i saw it when it was first shown a few years back.  i liked the new version but no one was as good at inspiring wonder as sagan
<knightWork> Carl can read me the phonebook and i'll still love it
<knightWork> his voice is .. magnifficent
<zmoylan-pi> the songs people have made with his talks are on my mp3 player...
<knightWork> zmoylan-pi: now i'm curious !
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc
<knightWork>  Awesome ! :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightWork>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HBkZPyfpdE&list=RD1HBkZPyfpdE#t=0
<knightWork> An entire symphony
<knightWork> Whow, I realy like this ...
<zmoylan-pi> and for lift relief there's always the universe song.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq4uCWtQE24
<davmor2> hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy 2 ewes, hippo birdy deer popey, hippo birdy 2 ewes
<knightWork> Oh crap zmoylan-pi you have shown me something now
<knightWork> i appear to be hooked
<knightWork> popey: ... birthday ?
<popey> Thanks :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy World Rat Day! ð  ð
<zmoylan-pi> squeak?
<popey> Oh, interestingly I was born in the year of the rat too
 * knightWork remembers Roland Rat !
<zmoylan-pi> stainless steel rat for president o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightWork> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightWork
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> popey: do you want to add to the RAT date poll before I close it?
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<bigcalm> \o
<ujjain> Let go troating about with big group of people, better off with small group  < does this phrase make sense? what is troating about?
<SuperMatt> ujjain: no.
<ujjain> ah htanks
<SuperMatt> that's possibly one of the least sensicle sentances I've ever read, and I've read my own drunk texts
<ujjain> ah ok, it makes sense in my head though
<knightWork> U gave no idea what troating is , but it sound like something you might search for on pornhub
<knightWork> u gave = i have
<SuperMatt> I looked it up, and it means to call out loudly
<SuperMatt> or something similar
<popey> bigcalm: intentionally not done because I don't know when i can make it
<davmor2> JamesTait: this seems very appropriate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kobdb37Cwc
<ujjain> hahahah
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, SSR, wasn't that one of the old 16-bit hacker crews?
<zmoylan-pi> it's a serious of books about stainless steel rat, a criminal in far future... first ones are quite good... for their time... but i still like them
<bigcalm> popey: okay. I'll close the poll and hopefully you'll be able to attend :)
<zmoylan-pi> was also in 2000ad as a multipart story
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, you learn something new every day.... ð
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't be suprised if a hacker group took the name
<bigcalm> Ubuntu UK loco Real Ale Train | 10th September 2016 | http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3350-real-ale-train-2016/
<bigcalm> popey: ^
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 19th September 2015 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3040-real-ale-train-2015/
<bigcalm> Now to try and remember how to get that changed
<popey> yay
<popey> !no, rat is <reply> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 10th September 2016, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3350-real-ale-train-2016/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: one up on me, I only know of Roland Rat Superstar yeeeeeeah
<zmoylan-pi> it's finest moment is when on a world with massive intrusive surveillance he describes how useless it is as the amount of people required to monitor and then monitor the monitors quicky becomes unmanageable and pointless.
<zmoylan-pi> it always stuck with me
<knightWork> zmoylan-pi: Roland Rat said that ?
<zmoylan-pi> stainless steel rat
<zmoylan-pi> roland wasn't such a philosopher...
<davmor2> roland rat was the fonz in rat form :D
<knightWork> and who / from what universe is stainless steel rat ?
<knightWork> davmor2: agreed !
<knightWork> He was the Gordon-the-gopher-with-streetsmarts
<MooDoo> davmor2: you a ratfan as well then? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat
<knightWork> zmoylan-pi: yet another thing you have taught me today
<zmoylan-pi> they have dated and last 3 books are terrible imo.  but i still love the books
<zmoylan-pi> the first sci fi book i bought new was a stainless steel rat book i bought on long trip to london in early 80s to keep me amused
<knightWork> Currently reading "ready player one" and taking some doctorrow books with me to the beach next weekend.
<popey> bigcalm: nice one!
<bigcalm> popey: one what?
<knightWork> pub crawl
<popey> ya
<popey> beer train
<knightWork> O/ L@Ne3y !
<knightWork> so l33t, Much W0w
<zmoylan-pi> i dunno, i miss Guest76158...
<knightWork> I realy had a personal bond with Guest76158
<bigcalm> The one time I get retweeted by an old school Linux bod, and it's a tweet about beer
 * bigcalm giggles quietly to himself
<bigcalm> I wonder if Alan Cocks would joint the RAT
<popey> it's not who you think it is
<bigcalm> Bah
<bigcalm> Cox not Cocks
<zmoylan-pi> humbug?
<diddledan> bigcalm! pervert!
<diddledan> (I just saw the Cox not Cocks comment and assumed :-p)
<bigcalm> privet
<davmor2> bigcalm: don't be calling diddledan a hedge
<foobarry> has anyone tried an ISP parental filter and managed to get more than domain level blocks?
<foobarry> e.g. reddit works but NSFW subreddits dont
<davmor2> foobarry: I think they are basically all just domain blocking tools
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> i wonder if youtube and iplayer are blocked too then :S
<davmor2> foobarry: possibly
<daftykins> i just opened my office window for the first time this year D:
<mallard> daftykins: and in a couple of months you'll shut it again because wasps will fly in
<daftykins> nah not here :P
 * davmor2 deposits a wasps nest outside daftykins 
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> if i see a ladder i shall shout your nickname
 * zmoylan-pi posts queen bee to daftykins as an inside job...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: nice he'll blame me thinking it is a wasp :D
<zmoylan-pi> the bee will wear a wasp disguise...
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 10th September 2016, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3350-real-ale-train-2016/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: and I can hand on heart swear in court it wasn't me in my shaggy-est impression possible
<zmoylan-pi> see, plausible deniability...
<daftykins> davmor2: you'll get a scare if you look up how old that track is!
<daftykins> came up on the radio and the guy said the year, 1998 i think
<davmor2> daftykins: pffff 98 3 of the songs forever getting into my head recently are all along the watchtower, house of the rising sun and stairway to heaven look up those dates you want scary
<daftykins> ;) that was before my time
 * zmoylan-pi has 1-2 tunes on mp3 player that my mother liked dating from the 30s...
<daftykins> still a fan though! except less so of the animals
<zmoylan-pi> and you can't go wrong with lili marlene... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q56QzGcAKZc
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: glenn miller in the mood, little brown jug and Chattanooga Choo Choo
<zmoylan-pi> for the modern 40s stuff, yeah... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: 30's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bVMCzDmcFY
<zmoylan-pi> this is the song i always remember my mother humming as she cooked in kitchen... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP3G1DZmTCQ
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you poor man ;)
<zmoylan-pi> not really, usually meant she making something special... breads, cakes, roasts...
<awilkins> How do I raise the DPI on Xenial?
<awilkins> Just got a shiny new SuperDuperHD laptop and the text in this window is reeeeely teensy
<daftykins> settings -> monitors
<daftykins> drag the slider
<awilkins> Aha
<awilkins> Aha
<awilkins> Hmm, maybe I need to restart the apps
<awilkins> Because this one is rendering the new large text in the teensy box :-)
<awilkins> OK, that seems to work.
<daftykins> yip always need a log out + in to confirm
<awilkins> 1.5 might be a bit high
<awilkins> Might try 1.3 or 1.4, this is a 1440 screen and I like 1080 fine
<awilkins> 1.38 seems OK
<daftykins> which machine did you get? i'm just finalising one of the Dell XPS 13 models with a 1080p panel for someone, i expect to be told the text is too tiny the second i hand it over - so 1.25x will likely be the answer then
<awilkins> Lenovo t460s
<daftykins> i would've thought an even multiplier makes sense
<awilkins> It's really really attractive hardware
<awilkins> Keyboard's lovely (don't get the backlit ones, I'm told they are considerably less lovely)
<awilkins> I got the low end model apart from the screen, WiFi, and smartcard reader
<awilkins> Not paying Â£300 for a CPU that has a tray price $110 higher than the base model
<awilkins> Not paying over the odds for RAM and M.2 NVMe drives
<daftykins> if you run Linux you'd have issues with the latter anywho
<awilkins> What, NVMe?
<daftykins> yep
<awilkins> What's the issues?
<daftykins> take the Dell XPS13, the BIOS is set to RAID for intel's RST (rapid storage tech.) right now, so if you boot 16.04 beta 2, you don't even see a storage device to install to
<awilkins> Oh, that
<awilkins> Yeah, I had to do that to the Windows laptop my ex-job shipped me.
<daftykins> you can change it to AHCI sure, but then that runs the old style and defeats the benefits
<awilkins> Hmm.
<awilkins> 1.38 scale keeps Firefox in teensy mode
<awilkins> 1.5 seems to make it scale up
<daftykins> tried 1.25?
<awilkins> Not tried 1.25
<awilkins> Will have a go
<awilkins> teensy mode
<awilkins> Guess I can make it scale by setting the zoom level
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> speaks of a bigger issue really, what did you install on there? 15.10?
<awilkins> .... except it doesn't seem to stick per session
<awilkins> Xenial
<daftykins> ah good good
<daftykins> so close now it makes sense :>
<daftykins> in fact my bad, you did say
<awilkins> Not considered trying Mir / Unity 8 yet
<davmor2> awilkins: dell default to 2 which makes everything look the size of a window on a 1080 monitor however the scaling will also affect any monitor you plug it into which makes it look ugly as hell on lower res external monitor
<daftykins> yay a working openVPN setup on the pfsense embedded router now, that'll let me get in for maintenance etc. to Spain from anywhere else
<velusunivers-sys> hello if i want to cp a folder to multiple folders how would i do this woudl it be cp -R bin {regions11,regions12.....}
<ali1234> i once had to do that. i tarred the directory, pipe to tee, then untar it in multiple places
<velusunivers-sys> ?
<velusunivers-sys> its not tared its just one working folder to be put into many, its something that is needed, i have one directory that is for the build and the other directorys are the workign ones and its an unfortunate c# program
<ali1234> so tar it
<daftykins> how many destination folders do you intend to copy to?
<velusunivers-sys> 5
<velusunivers-sys> i dont want to tar it
<velusunivers-sys> it would confuse me too much
<daftykins> i just had a test and i can't see a way to do it, so ali's suggestion will have to do - otherwise just get it done
<velusunivers-sys> ill have to do it manually
<daftykins> yep
<ali1234> yeah there's no other way to do it other than by serializing the directory and duplicating it with pipes
<ali1234> or just copy it multiple times
<daftykins> weirdly when i typed "copy file test1 test2" it only copied to test2 and not test1
<daftykins> though that was until i re-read the idea was a folder not file
<ali1234> for a file: cat file | tee file1 > file2
<daftykins> ah har
<ndf> man xargs
<ali1234> for directories it's the same, but tarring the directory and untarring it in each place you want a copy
<ali1234> the important point here is the source only gets read once. i needed to copy a file from a server and make two local copies on different hard drives, and i only had enough time to write one copy to each disk, not read it back
<ali1234> so i had to use tee to make the copy while the data was in flight, before writing it
<ali1234> chances are you do not need to do this and can just do it the slow way
<daftykins> chances are users are lazy :<
<diddledan> only a chance? I thought that was guaranteed
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-05
<knightwise> hey mapps
<knightwise> how are you mate
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon how are you today
<brobostigon> hi knightwise, not bad overall and you?
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<davmor2> knightwise: hey dude how's it going?
<knightwise> Doing ok davmor2 :) Just released a new podcast
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Go For Broke Day! ð  ð°
<SuperMatt> JamesTait: go for broke? I do that every time I say "yes, ok, we'll buy that if you stop bugging me" to my girlfriend
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, wait until you have kids!
<SuperMatt> I'm hoping to be sterile before that happens
 * SuperMatt stands in front of the microwave for long periods of time
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx2u5uUu3DE
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: Wear tight pants and wrap your cheese in cling-film
<TwistedLucidity> And no, "cheese" is not a euphamism
<SuperMatt> wait, what?
<SuperMatt> Why does wrapping cheese in clingfilm reduce sperm?
<SuperMatt> ok, even the guardian says it (as does the daily fail), so it may be credible
<TwistedLucidity> It's the PVC. Acts like a female hormone.
<TwistedLucidity> Basically, don't wrap high-fat foods in cling-film. Or use PVC-free if you do.
<TwistedLucidity> Interesting, Wiki says "myth" but cites no source. Probably a shill for "Big Wrap"! :-P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_wrap#Materials_used
<knightWork> awefully quiet here this afternoon i must say
 * brobostigon has been doing job search.
<zmoylan-pi> IS THIS BETTER? :-P
<Azelphur> Figure this might interest people, I've been speedtesting my internet connection (70mbit openreach fiber) every 15 minutes since September 2015. 11,422 speedtests. Generated some fun data http://home.azelphur.com/speedtest-results/
<diddledan> Azelphur: you should make a graph for the whole duration in addition to daily ones :-p
<Azelphur> diddledan: a chart with that many points would likely destroy the universe, if I reduced the number of points it probably wouldn't have the resolution required to see the dips
<diddledan> hmm
<knightWork> brobostigon: any luck finding something you like ,
<brobostigon> knightWork: a couple yes.
<AuroraAvenue> Could we make a Made In Italy Ubuntu App for Amazon ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/b?ie=UTF8&node=7165873031
<AuroraAvenue> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egvOMRpGIFo
<AuroraAvenue> SuperEngineer: Hiya o/
<SuperEngineer> 0/
<diddledan> o/
<SuperEngineer> Anyone ever wondered how many / how fast those freenode disks must be spinning... & doing it for free!
<SuperEngineer> and then compared that to their employer?  ;-)
<daftykins> disks? tape you mean ;)
<diddledan> freenode disks?
<SuperEngineer> tape, of course... or the punch card operator even!
<AuroraAvenue> Note really; as they are a split network-in one spinning disk from 1998.
<SuperEngineer> :)
<diddledan> eh?
<AuroraAvenue> Anything good on the Beeb, lately ?
<daftykins> AuroraAvenue: i think your humour detector is off
<AuroraAvenue> daftykins: Not really, I'm just qoting from an interview with the founder from www.hope.net
<diddledan> IRC doesn't use much disk activity...
<AuroraAvenue> Lets have a look If I'm off though : http://strawpoll.me/7287964
<AuroraAvenue> I guess this isn't a polling booth :-)
<mapps> hi
<AuroraAvenue> Hi mapps :)
<daftykins> \o
<AuroraAvenue> https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/4dhexr/ubuntustrawpoll_who_thinks_microsofts_windows/
<AuroraAvenue> Here too.
<AuroraAvenue> getting allot of animosity over microsoft on that post ;)
<daftykins> well it is reddit, where the foaming-at-the-mouth and echo chamber types reside
<AuroraAvenue> hey stop that - I love Mister_Splashy_Pants
<AuroraAvenue> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Splashy_Pants
 * SuperEngineer bets AuroraAvenue gets allot of smiles over the use of allot ;)
<daftykins> :)
<AuroraAvenue> its American
 * AuroraAvenue says hello to our Trump-overlords.
<AuroraAvenue> America is so broke ;)
 * daftykins looks at the channel name
<AuroraAvenue> troo.
<daftykins> ah yes it's our favourite nick hopping IoM-ite
<AuroraAvenue> Any UK news, then ?
<daftykins> bam, ignored and the trouble is gone
<AuroraAvenue> people change.
<SuperEngineer> :)
<diddledan> daftykins: who dat?
<diddledan> any git-lovers? git-merge conference is currently live: http://git-merge.com/
<daftykins> did they merge all the attendees?
<daftykins> thanks i'm here all week
<SuperEngineer> lol
<i1545> !Pondering Katerina Diamond - The Teacher (epub).rar
<lubotu3`> i1545: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<daftykins> i hope that's creative commons
<i1545> !Pondering Katerina Diamond - The Teacher (epub).rar
<lubotu3`> i1545: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<daftykins> i1545: can you stop that...
<popey> how odd
<daftykins> mmm
<ali1234> is bash on windows out yet?
<daftykins> hmm i never even went back to my VM to see if i'd get offered the new build
<ali1234> there was a new build last night
<diddledan> ali1234: I heard tomorrow was the plan
<ali1234> 14295
<diddledan> that's been around for a while
<ali1234> it wasn't available when i installed
<ali1234> not to me anyway
<diddledan> yeah it takes a while for the system to offer a build the first-time
<daftykins> i was surprised the site didn't have a newer image
<directhex_> ali1234: soon.
<diddledan> tomorrow!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I'm wondering what is gonna happen to the ui-related mono stuff
<daftykins> Azelphur: any news on the NHS fun?
<Azelphur> daftykins: nah, I asked for a callback on Monday but haven't been called back yet, will call again tomorrow
<daftykins> ah har
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-06
<mapps> hi
<nige_> hi
<nige_> anyone here
<mapps> yes
<mapps> oh
<mapps> brooklyn 99 is so cool;d
<mapps> anyone watch
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> well that was a worrying start to the day, 10 minutes after I finished work yesterday the interwebs disappeared 10 minutes after I start today they come back just while I was setting up my mifi for working at all day \o/  win
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Tartan Day! ð
<ali1234> it's out
<ali1234> build 14316 is downloading
<popey> how do you get it?
<popey> "it"
<popey> aha https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/04/06/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-14316/
<ali1234> yeah, that
<popey> neat
<ali1234> oh i see the problem
<ali1234> windows is uploading at the maximum possible speed
<ali1234> jamming up the router
<ali1234> haven't seen this since about 2002
<daftykins> ali1234: would you not want to use the max speed? granted you've got that quite anaemic connection?
<ali1234> no the problem is it's uploading at the maximum speed
<ali1234> the download speed then drops to a few kb
<daftykins> what's uploading?
<ali1234> no idea
<daftykins> hmm bit of sherlock sleuthing in task manager with network IO columns added perhaps
<daftykins> i'm finding the task manager so much nicer to watch network IO vs. 7
<ali1234> well now it is refusing to do anything at all
<daftykins> what should it be doing? downloading this new release?
<ali1234> yes
<daftykins> if it's just come out it could be bogged down providing it
<daftykins> the % indicator can give some clues, however
<ali1234> the traffic is due to service host: local system
<ali1234> windows insider service, delivery optimization, windows update, a bunch of other stuff
<ali1234> total network usage: send: 80 Kbps, receive 5.8Mbps
<ali1234> all other computers on my LAN get really slow internet unless i unplug the cable from the win10 VM, then it works fine
<daftykins> yeah i don't think you can cap BITS
<daftykins> i think that's more a sign of the funky issues on your line giving you a slow service than much else
<daftykins> saturating any xDSL's downstream never gridlocked the rest of a LAN for me
<daftykins> it'd be nice if MS would just post new media
<ali1234> lol now it it's started downloading the iso again from scratch
<daftykins> what makes you say that? it doesn't get an ISO, but the files
<ali1234> well i can't see any other reason why it would need to download 4GB of data
<daftykins> could've corrupted something i guess, i think it grabs the install.wim in one go
<daftykins> you would think BITS would prevent a failure of that kind though, given it's almost torrent like :/
<awilkins> Background Idiotic Transfer System
<daftykins> mmm 3.8GB image for that latest build
<diddledan> weird. installed a new marvell sata card into my pc and linux promptly refused to start until I turned-on the IOMMU
<diddledan> apparently linux defaults to hijacking the GART for IOMMU use unless you tell it you've got a real IOMMU in your chip (and that you've got BIOS support for the same and it's enabled)
<diddledan> and that GART-based mess dies with marvell chips
<daftykins> needed more SATA ports and dualbooting from a drive attached to said marvell now?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> just needed more ports period
<daftykins> ah
<diddledan> the dualbooting is using my mobo sata chip which has never had any problems
<daftykins> *nod* didn't even expect you dualbooted was all :)
<daftykins> i am muchly excited, finally took the plunge and ordered some bits for a new desktop... first upgrade since December 2007
<diddledan> yeah. I flipflop because I can't settle on a single choice
<zmoylan-pi> a desktop... i remember those...
<daftykins> now now, just because you don't use one ;)
<zmoylan-pi> not any more. used to love them.  a full tower at work, a mini tower at home
<zmoylan-pi> now a rasp pi is so close to doing what i want... :-)
<daftykins> i love me some multi tasking and virtualisation
<zmoylan-pi> i would like if they standardised on external drives in size so they were more stackable
<daftykins> hehe, never happen
<zmoylan-pi> the marketing department loves their exciting shapes...
<daftykins> oddly enough i think the 2.5" bus powered portables i've bought over the years are still working now, yet desktop ones with mains adapters to drive them have all conked out (for clients)
<ali1234> oh hey it finished downloading
<daftykins> can't rule out them abusing the things mind you
<zmoylan-pi> a client abuse hardware... that would never happen...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> perish the thought indeed!
<daftykins> could always get yourself a nice consumer 2-4 bay NAS and swap disks as need be ;)
<zmoylan-pi> what putting the pc on a shop floor and having a drone mop the floor would rust the pc... why didn't you tell us that would happen?!
<daftykins> i wonder if the steel company i look after have made up the metal trays i suggested they put their PCs on to save them from the dust brought in. It's not like they have a metal work warehouse immediately outside the office mind y... oh they do
<daftykins> 8D
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure i told you of the 386 we put it tights to keep the dust out in a metal working shop...
<daftykins> hahaha :D
<daftykins> i'll suggest that one next time!
<daftykins> there was an article on thereg where some folks decided to cover everything internally with kitchen cling film...
<ali1234> how do you save a file with edge?
<daftykins> pass, don't use it.
 * daftykins pokes diddledan 
<zmoylan-pi> with one leg hanging over the floppy drive with a hole cut in bottom so that you could insert floppy without leaving a gap for dust to get in
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> ali1234: right-click it?
<ali1234> yeah i did that and it saved it as a htm file
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i read theregister clingfilm whoopsie... i mentioned the tights in the comments :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :D
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I hope your floppies had protection
<zmoylan-pi> it was one of those silly things you do and it worked.
<diddledan> inserting random floppies into your drive is dangerous
<zmoylan-pi> yeah the floppy drive worked fine.  the disks were kept in box and not left out for metal dust to deposit on
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m947hukfRr1qfje60.jpg
<daftykins> safety first!
<ali1234> okay... it's downloading ubuntu now
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-07
<ali1234> networking doesn't work so i can't install anything
<daftykins> wat
<ali1234> can't even ping localhost. fail.
<daftykins> dead interfaces?
<ali1234> /proc/net/dev doesn't exist
<ali1234> it's as if you built a linux kernel with no network device support at all
<ali1234> "ping: icmp open socket: Socket type not supported"
<daftykins> oh i see in there, i was assuming in the host OS
<daftykins> or rather the VM
<ali1234> no, in the host OS it works "fine" (for windows)
<daftykins> loving the ongoing bias
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not biased, i just hate ms... :-P
<daftykins> still, makes sense to acknowledge none are without fault
<ali1234> i rebooted, now it doesn't work at all
<daftykins> \o/
<ali1234> maybe i need to check for updates again
<diddledan> ali1234: try something other than ping. like apt
<diddledan> or curl/wget
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/EXraQqq.png
<ali1234> none of it works
<ali1234> can't resolve hostnames, can't create sockets
<diddledan> worked for me
<diddledan> though I didn't do it in a VM
<diddledan> maybe the virtual network driver is shoddy
<ali1234> maybe. i'll add a usb wifi dongle and pass it thru to windows
<ali1234> apparently my virtualbox isn't configured properly to do that
<diddledan> for reference I ran "apt update" and "apt upgrade" with no problems
<ali1234> those don't work either
<daftykins> bridged networking or NATing in this thing?
<ali1234> NAT
<ali1234> not that it matters
<diddledan> it might
<daftykins> with vbox, any tweak is worth a go
<diddledan> vbox nat is half-assed
<daftykins> s/vbox//
<ali1234> okay i will try it
<ali1234> absolutely no difference
<daftykins> which vbox is this?
<daftykins> i was never a fan
<ali1234> 5
<diddledan> couple things to check: did you launch bash from a command prompt or did you find it in the start-menu? is your windows user an administrator? (I started bash from powershell by simply typing `bash` and my user IS an administrator)
<ali1234> i have absolutely no idea
<diddledan> random diversion: btrfs scrub is gonna take an AGE on here - I started it 2 hours ago and it's done approx 50GB on each of my four discs and they're each 3TB large
<ali1234> running it as administrator makes no difference
<diddledan> weirdness indeed
<diddledan> I'm out of ideas :-(
<daftykins> early software strikes?
<ali1234> not really sure what i expected
<diddledan> daftykins: blame the unions
<daftykins> happy to throw it on vmware tomorrow to see how that behaves
<daftykins> does vbox have multiple model virtual NICs you can assign?
<daftykins> i'm clutching at straws totally there, of course
<diddledan> I'll download a copy and try on vbox myself to see if it's related to vbox directly
<daftykins> are you both on the same release and have vbox from the same source?
<diddledan> ali1234: only thing I can think that I've not checked - they said in their smallprint that it requires a 64bit edition of win10
<ali1234> i have 64 bit
<diddledan> I'm on xenial, daftykins, and I'll be installing vbox from the repo
<ali1234> nothing with the virtual network adapter explains why i don't even have a loopback device
<daftykins> does it even work that way?
<diddledan> ifconfig fails on my system so I'm assuming MS have some magic sauce that isn't a complete implementation of the linux network stack
<diddledan> ali1234: just a thought. did you install home or pro variant? (I'll do both to check)
<ali1234> i wasn't offered a choice
<ali1234> i installed windows 10 N
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> I'll get a copy of that too, then
<ali1234> i used the "English" version not "English (International)"
<daftykins> ooh-err.
<daftykins> N is that weird cutdown
<daftykins> can't see it breaking that though
<ali1234> the download page said that 10 N is compatible with both home and pro
<daftykins> i definitely had a vanilla image from xenial earlier, on the download page
<diddledan> N is the EU-endorsed no-media variant isn't it?
<zmoylan-pi> i always worry when i read compatible...
<daftykins> Lemmings, IBM PC compatible
<ali1234> i will download the insider preview iso and install that instead
<ali1234> on my desktop it says this "Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview Evaluation Copy Build 14316.rs1_release.160402-2217"
<daftykins> diddledan: one of my clients got tired of 'contacts' opening slowly on his Samsung Galaxy S5 so called me up today to say he'd bought a Nokia Lumia... >_<
<ali1234> but my original download was not an insider ISO, it was 10 N
<diddledan> ok, that answers whether you got pro or home then
<diddledan> daftykins: haha
<diddledan> right, full-fat home and pro are installing. just firing up N-home and N-pro now
<diddledan> ok, they're all going now
<diddledan> just have to wait till they fini installing
<daftykins> some day soon i'll have fancy modern kit that's that rapid!
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> yours'll be better than mine then
<daftykins> i'm going to retire my RAID-0'd pair of velociraptors as VM storage, i think
<daftykins> well, Â£600 bought me a skylake i7 and 32GB RAM
<diddledan> full-fat pro installed
<diddledan> getting critical updates >.<
<ali1234> i think it just doesn't work inside a VM
<daftykins> sure seems that way
<daftykins> i take it your CPU supports VT?
<ali1234> yes, but not inside a VM
<daftykins> last thing i can think of
<diddledan> ali1234: so that I replicate as close as poss - did you install the guest additions?
<ali1234> no
<diddledan> ok, they're uptodate prior to receiving an insider build - I'll leave them running till I wake up tomorrow and hopefully they'll be ready to install the build by then (there's a bit of a delay between activating the insider builds on an install and actually being offered your first insider update)
<diddledan> and on that note I'm off to the land of Nod
<daftykins> ah i thought you had grabbed the image
<daftykins> ta-ra \o
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy World Health Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: got bro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWf-eARnf6U&nohtml5=False
<SuperMatt> morning
<foobarry> my doggy died yesterday:(
<foobarry> got more upset than i expected.
<popey> :(
<popey> Sorry to hear that foobarry
<davmor2> foobarry: :(
<foobarry> a finer doggy you never did meet
<foobarry> heart was failing and her lungs were filling so we had to put her down, even though she was still wagging her tail etc and looked ok :(
<SuperMatt> people often underestimate how hard it is to lose a dog
<popey> awwww
<popey> keep trying to convince wifey we should get a dog
<SuperMatt> I will be inconsolable when my cat passed, I'm sure
<SuperMatt> pets bring so much to our lives
<SuperMatt> and I'm glad you had one foobarry that you loved, and loved you back
<popey> yeah. one of my cats got run over, managed to drag herself back to the house to die in the den. survived long enough to take her to the vet.
<foobarry> my dog was like a cat
<foobarry> liked cuddles etc. wife is devastated as it was her friend when she was alone.kids don't know yet
<foobarry> also we rescued her from RSPCA so she had a good life
<foobarry> did you cat owners get your cats from kitten stage?
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think one /owns/ a cat.  feels the other way around... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> and i hope you find a new dog to share your life with foobarry...
<foobarry> maybe we will get a cat instead
<zmoylan-pi> you can /bring/ cats for a walk but they have to learn young i've been told...
<foobarry> realised most of the fun times and good bonding i've had with my kids has been on doggy walks
<popey> foobarry: yes, one of ours was a kitten, the other we got because a friend wasn't allowed cats anymore
<popey> I'll be devastated when Salem goes. he's 12 now, and is super clingy
<davmor2> popey: so how's the mate or is there more curing to do yet?
<popey> still curing
<davmor2> popey: how long does that take?
<popey> as long as you like
<popey> I'm only letting it sit for 24 hrs
<popey> will have a cup later today
<davmor2> popey: oh okay I was wondering if it was like a week long thing or something
<popey> apparently you can do that if you want
<popey> but have to replace the leaves every 24 hours
<popey> if I did this for a week I'd run out of mate before I had any to drink :)
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
<davmor2> popey: it's like the pucker teacup in china they say aren't seasoned properly till they are 2 years old :)
<popey> blimey
<davmor2> popey: sorry meant teapot don't know why I put cup :D
<foobarry> has anyone seen the creature swimming in the thames video?
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubwFvl-My4E
<zmoylan-pi> porpoise? dolphin? didn't a whale swim in a few years ago?
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Thames_whale
<foobarry> somebodys selling a xbox360 for Â£30, thats pretty good surely
<foobarry> if it works
<zmoylan-pi> don't microsoft block xboxes if the account does funny things?
<foobarry> the whole console? wow
<foobarry> i'd get a ps3 at that price
<zmoylan-pi> might just be modded consoles... http://www.geeksquad.com/intelligence/blog/xbox-360-buyer-beware-of-blocked-consoles/
<zmoylan-pi> i could never bring myself to buy a console that you never 100% own
<zmoylan-pi> *console/hardware... as google is now reminding nest owners... :-)
<foobarry> revolv
 * popey wonders if http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B010Q57S62 works in a pi 3
<foobarry> what's this review banging on about
<foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1QZ6A8TZ38ETH/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B013UDL5HU&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=340831031&store=computers
<foobarry> it had a non supported filesystem but couldn't he use linux to format it?
<zmoylan-pi> i have had problems formatting 1-2 cards in the past... ususally just wrote them off to wonky cards... i had formatted them as they had become /glitchy/
<zmoylan-pi> and a recent usb drive that i formatted as ext4 that was wonky refused to reformat till i realised i had to unmount it in gparted before i could reformat it to work
<zmoylan-pi> partitions and formatting are just a little different in linux from windows and may cause confusion i suppose is what i am suggesting...
<popey> "For the record, I have been using a Belkin card reader, not some unbranded reader"
<popey> lulz
<zmoylan-pi> i hear a lot of people hating on belkin but to me they supply good very generic hardware
<zmoylan-pi> nothing fancy, no wacky drivers required hardware
<foobarry> looking on gumtree, a bargain hunte could prob snap up a ps3 quite cheap
<foobarry> plus cheap games
<zmoylan-pi> how much longer will the ps3 game servers remain online? didn't they just shut down the last of the ps2 servers?
<foobarry> 5yrs?
<zmoylan-pi> it's such a shame that some great games can't be shown to future generatations as the servers they require will be gone...
<foobarry> mario kart wii still works, i played it yesterday :D
<foobarry> also future generations don't care
<popey> friend of mine has re-implemented the dreamcast server to run on a pi
<popey> so he can play online dreamcast games again
<foobarry> the only ones who care are the ones who played them
<foobarry> nice work, reverse engineered popey ?
<popey> yeah
<popey> https://twitter.com/kazade/status/717411678569283584
<foobarry> i recognise the name
<foobarry> from some years ago.
<foobarry> maybe on digg or irc or something
<foobarry> or omgubuntu
<popey> he used to kick around on ubuntu yes
<TwistedLucidity> With SD cards, the reader firmware is important. My Dell reader won't do high-capacity cards and (for whatever reason) the updated Dell firmware won't install.
<TwistedLucidity> Remember kids - don't buy Dell!
<popey> i bought an external usb3 reader
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Belkin are...below the standard one would expect. Bought two Belkin surge protectored socket strips with "Remote off". Both have now failed
<TwistedLucidity> In the same way
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Won't future generations care? I think they will. Games are part of our culture and we are heading deeper into an electronic dark age where we not only card read the past (proprietary formats), but how the past even functioned is lost (closed servers)
<TwistedLucidity> If they shut down the server, they should F/OSS the code.
<TwistedLucidity> If there is a community, let it provide.
<TwistedLucidity> Sauerbraten (which runs on Cube2) is still thriving, for example
<TwistedLucidity> popey: A RasPi 3 has the same (more more) CPU/GPU chops as a Dreamcast had? Crikey.
<bashrc_> surely that's just a selection pressure in favour of open source. Let evolution do its work.
<popey> blimey, really?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Well, isn't that what that Dreamcast project implies?
<popey> i thought it was the backend bit
<TwistedLucidity> Oh......I misunderstood. We'll wait for the RPi4 then :-)
<popey> heh
<diddledan> this guy scares me: https://youtu.be/Zfc789pGHjA?t=1140 - I'm concerned for Britney's safety after watching that
<diddledan> aah the sound of summer - someone in the distance mowing their lawn
<zmoylan-pi> here it's idiots commuting with stero in car on full blast with windows down now it's warm enough...
<diddledan> we get idiots that squeel their tyres outside in the dead of night
<diddledan> I find it odd, 'cos we're a cul-de-sac which means they aren't passing-by but chose to be an idiot here
<zmoylan-pi> speedbump outside house takes care of those... does mean every lorry passing house with scaffolding in back at 6am gets a bit of a reshuffle...
<ali1234> diddledan judging from the posts in the feedback centre bash does not work in a vm
<diddledan> odd
<diddledan> I wonder if that's related to the 64bit requirement
<ali1234> also why does opening the start menu freeze all running software?
<diddledan> it must be expecting something in hardware that the vm isn't exposing
<ali1234> someone wrote that if you start a VPN connection, bash sees it
<ali1234> so it must be something to do with the virtual network hardware
<diddledan> I'm still waiting for my 4vms to offer me the build
<ali1234> just keep rebooting and clicking "check for updates" and eventually it will give up
<ali1234> you might have to do it 4 or 5 times
 * diddledan tries
<ali1234> like most things windows, it's mainly a question of how persistent you can be
<diddledan> lol
<ali1234> do you get a thing where the start menu won't open?
<diddledan> not that I recall
<ali1234> i click on it and the logo turns darker blue for like 10 seconds
<ali1234> then nothing happens
<ali1234> after i do that about 3 or 4 times it opens
<ali1234> sometimes it gets stuck open as well
<diddledan> although, I just opened start and now it won't close
<ali1234> this whole OS is so shoddy I can't understand why anyone would ever use it
<ali1234> what is "Oracle Virtualbox VM Extension Pack"?
<ali1234> is it the same as guest utilities?
<ali1234> ah, package virtualbox-ext-pack
<ali1234> it's the stuff you'd previously have to install oracle virtualbox as opposed to OSE to get
<diddledan> yeah they packaged it so that it can be added to an existing OSE install
<diddledan> that's where the USB support is stored which would be why you couldn't get your wifi to work
<ali1234> yeah that's exactly what i'm trying to do
<ali1234> still doesn't work though. probably user permissions
<diddledan> ali1234: further investigations. it seems that it might be specific to vbox - I just tested using vmware fusion on my mac with a copy of windows that was already in the insider program (and therefore already had received the build without needing to wait for inertia) and it successfully responded to `curl -I google.com` but does still fail to ping
<diddledan> anywhere/everywhere
<sebsebseb> hi
<popey> yo
<sebsebseb> popey: how similar are the two M10 tablets really?
<popey> no idea, never seen either
<popey> specs are on their website
<sebsebseb> yeah indeed I know the specs, but what does it really mean,  HD screen
<sebsebseb> FHD screen
<sebsebseb> slighty better camera on the FHD
<sebsebseb> popey: how come y9ou haven't seen one?
<popey> hd usually means 720p
<popey> fhd usually means 1080p
<popey> I don't get to see every single device
<sebsebseb> yeah and both are 10 inch
<sebsebseb> popey: I will buy one of them soon, might buy the other one at a  later date to, don't know yet
<sebsebseb> popey: nexdock very nearly funded now, I look forward to getting that :)
<popey> I considered what would take to make one of them
<popey> with a better display
<sebsebseb> popey: there's only a slight price difference between the two
<sebsebseb> altough sometimes 40 pounds or so price difference is more than had orignallhy thought
<popey> wondered if I could pick up a second hand broken 1080p laptop and modify it to be like a nexdock
<sebsebseb> popey: yeh maybe, if you take the hard disk out and what not
<popey> yeah
<sebsebseb> popey: nexdock has it's own battery though
<sebsebseb> popey: that then powers the rassbery pi for example
<sebsebseb> when connected
<popey> right, which you'd get in any laptop
<sebsebseb> popey: nexdock is still a bit or so different going by the videos etc about it
<sebsebseb> it's like a lap top, but not a lap top
<popey> it's a laptop with no brain
<diddledan> that sounds like diddledan
<diddledan> he's a body with no brain
<aquarius> ok, it's probably not the right time to work on this, but I'm awake, so hey ho. I have a machine with a root disk and a bunch of other disks in it; the root disk is, I think, ext3, and the other disks are a btrfs cluster. And... it won't boot; it throws errors. Is step 1 "boot off an Ubuntu usb stick"?
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/718218054598062081
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-08
<diddledan> hah. "In this case the site owners did not update for some time and it resulted in world leaders being toppled and the largest data breach to journalists in history." patching your shiz is important, people! https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2016/04/mossack-fonseca-breach-vulnerable-slider-revolution/
<mappps> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all you funky cyber hippies
 * bashrc_ is more of a cyber punk
<Myrtti> bllÃ¤Ã¤Ã¤hh.
<popey> Myrtti! It's Friday!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> but I've been awake since 0430
<Myrtti> so I'm allowed to be a bit bllÃ¤Ã¤Ã¤hhh
<davmor2> Myrtti: well if you will get up at OMG it's early O'clock you have no-one but yourself to blame ;)
<Myrtti> I wish that were funny, but it's not
<Myrtti> because I didn't choose to wake up at early o'clock
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happyDraw a Picture of a Bird Day! ð  ð¦
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPrtFxd9u9Y
<davmor2> JamesTait: and look he stole all our dance moves
<JamesTait> Pffft!  He's a poor imitation. ð
<bigcalm> popey: have you completed Pixel Miner yet?
<popey> hah, you can complete it?
<bigcalm> popey: I'm leaving it in the fore ground to get lots of treasure to sell. Maybe one day
<popey> hah
<popey> it eats the battery
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> Somebody needs to buy me this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015ZEPSYI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_img?_encoding=UTF8&colid=LXT6MFP2WUWA&coliid=IHS1CIMNMQ1CI
<davmor2> bigcalm: you are somebody buy it
<Myrtti> http://www.openculture.com/2016/03/software-used-by-hayao-miyazakis-animation-studio-becomes-open-source-free-to-download.html
<foobarry> Myrtti: not linux yet though?
<Myrtti> Didn't dig that deep, as I've got little skills for animation
<zmoylan-pi> i used to use autodesk 3d animation in late 80s to knock up animated customer logos for their computers... went down very well.  great software.  never ever crashed...
<zmoylan-pi> while i can't draw to save my life i could render a fairly mean animation of a scanned image/cobbled together image
<foobarry> check the cassetteboy video
<foobarry> https://www.facebook.com/boycassette/videos/470758526446422/?fref=nf
<MooDoo> evening all
<diddledan> morning
<zmoylan-pi> merry christmas
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> sad face, bits for my desktop PC upgrade only dispatched yesterday - and no motherboard as of yet
<daftykins> i'm going through my Linux notebook right now to prune some old irrelevant stuff, page 1: "how to disable IPv6 in ubuntu 8.10"
<daftykins> haha, re-enabling X.org zapping in 9.04
<zmoylan-pi> is there a seperate notebook for pulse audio? :-P
<daftykins> i don't run desktop Linux so no
<daftykins> someone has asked me to look at some Apple toys, soon... >_<
<zmoylan-pi> an apple newton? :-)
<daftykins> they want to move away from an ISP email account (ugh) to an iCloud account (even more ugh)
<zmoylan-pi> drone envy... http://www.gizmag.com/volocopter-manned-flight/42704/
<ali1234> i finally got it to work
<ali1234> all you have to do is echo nameserver 192.168.0.1 > /etc/resolv.conf
<daftykins> that seems like a bit of an oversighty
<daftykins> -y
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i also got usb working in virtualbox, but it turns out windows 10 doesn't have wifi drivers
<ali1234> so that idea didn't work
<daftykins> for your specific adapter? that's a surprise
<ali1234> might go and troll ##windows with that one later
<daftykins> doesn't hurt to check that 'checking windows update' for drivers is on, though it likely will be in 10
<zmoylan-pi> you need a wifi cable... :-) http://www.mikeapollo.co.uk/geek-humour/can-you-spot-whats-wrong-here/
<daftykins> start -> change device installation settings
<ali1234> yes it is on
<ali1234> but i don't need it to work at this point
<ali1234> results so far: upstart doesn't work, sshd doesn't work, dbus doesn't work
<ali1234> X11 doesn't work due to some kind of network error
<diddledan> yeah MS hacked their own init
<ali1234> basically nothing works
<daftykins> what about the stuff they said it was meant for?
<ali1234> bash runs
<ali1234> you can run bash
<ali1234> cupsd works somehow
<ali1234> apache doesn't work, so forget about using this for webdev
<daftykins> SSH client all good?
<ali1234> yeah, as long as you only want to run bash on the remote server
<ali1234> anything that uses ncurses doesn't work
<ali1234> if you want to ssh out of a windows machine you're probably better off using putty
<ali1234> it's certainly a lot easier to install
<ali1234> still, this is slightly more useful than OS X shell
<diddledan> really?
<ali1234> yes. the selection of software that is available and works is roughly the same
<ali1234> except unlike OS X, i don't have to put up with outdated BSD versions of tools like tar
<ali1234> outside of coreutils nothing really works on either
<ali1234> also the ability to use a keyboard with a sensible layout will be useful
<ali1234> i won't need to keep a browser window open so i can copy&paste symbols like ~ and |
<zmoylan-pi> isn't there a way to alt-nnn them with ascii value of character? used to love that in dos... probably unicode now
<daftykins> that's still the only way i know to do some characters :(
<zmoylan-pi> alt 156 for Â£ when keyboard driver not working/configured/installed
<zmoylan-pi> fun and games...
<daftykins> mmm prawn risotto
 * zmoylan-pi has cheeses been chilled for tomorrows d&d game...
<daftykins> ooh, are they fine foreign cheese?
<daftykins> *cheeses
<zmoylan-pi> nah, baby bel. but really nice to nibble on at games
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> that with pretzels from lidl, tesco branded plain chocolate and it'll be fine dining... :-P
<mapps> hi
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> allo
<m0nkey|web> anyone else see spacex stick the landing?
<diddledan> which one?
<zmoylan-pi> https://twitter.com/j00zt1n/status/718542884836929536/photo/1
<daftykins> indeedy
<zmoylan-pi> the latest one tonight
<diddledan> ooh, on a boat
<zmoylan-pi> one slightly scorched boat
<Velus-universe> hello im folling this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixVirtualMailBoxClamSmtpHowto and i get to  this bit Make Dovecot listen for authentication requests and it says the code needs to be updated for newer version? can someone help me with this bit please?
<daftykins> #ubuntu-server might be more useful
<Velus-universe> ok thanks
<diddledan> this is why we need a documentation guy
<daftykins> mmhmm
<diddledan> there's far too many out-of-date documents on ubuntu.com
<Velus-universe> yeah
<diddledan> some of them reference 09.04
<daftykins> been a while since i checked out the community Unreal Tournament edition, downloading now \o/
<diddledan> err, 9.04
<daftykins> diddledan: wow that new? :)
<diddledan> aye
<Velus-universe> i think everyone in ubuntu-server is a sleep now
<daftykins> is this a simple home mail setup?
<Velus-universe> and i want to get this working asoon as atm
<Velus-universe> yes and no, it si a simple mail setup but for a server not home
<daftykins> so how many users?
<Velus-universe> aprox will be about 10
<daftykins> small business?
<Velus-universe> yes
<daftykins> i'd go google apps or office 365 personally.
<Velus-universe> i would prefer it on my own server
<daftykins> ok, but the cost in time will stack up when you're new to managing it :)
<Velus-universe> i have done one before (used mysql for the db and users) but i just want this simple nto like befofre
<Velus-universe> i do currently use zoho for my mail but im having to many problems with it
<daftykins> never heard of that
<Velus-universe> its like gmail apps
<daftykins> google
<Velus-universe> yeah
<Velus-universe> zoho.com/
<daftykins> are you sure you can't find an example dovecot configuration for your intended protocols of choice online in another guide?
<Velus-universe> mi looking now
<daftykins> hrmm ATA bus errors booting a Linux after UT made win10 BSOD - looks like my intel 160GB X25-M G2 has finally died
<daftykins> mercy mercy me, she thinks she's 600PB :D
<zmoylan-pi> delusions of capacity...
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15700253/
<daftykins> she's a beaut ;)
<diddledan> :-o
<diddledan> daftykins: wtf do you do to disks?!
<diddledan> you're a bad omen
<daftykins> ;_;
<daftykins> it is a 7 year old SSD though
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> my first ever!
<diddledan> fair enough
<daftykins> of course now the rest doesn't want to POST and has given up on life, too
<daftykins> my own gear loves me so :)
<diddledan> good job you're getting a new box
 * diddledan finally finishing the night manager. ep 3 - there's nauthies
<diddledan> naughties
<daftykins> shame only half has been despatched by amazon!
<daftykins> yay POST
<diddledan> email
<diddledan> nobody uses post anymore
<daftykins> mmm that's true
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mr6ahpmv86bh92j/IMG-20160409-WA0000.jpeg?dl=0
<zmoylan-pi> i have a grand isa vga card you can have... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> i think i might be even able to lay my hands on a cga card if the new system is not up to it... :-P
<daftykins> nothing wrong with the card, just can't get to the CMOS reset when it's in
<zmoylan-pi> now that is annoying
<zmoylan-pi> not even with a pen nib?
<daftykins> nah, it's right under the card - and the angle of attack is blocked by the segment segregating the PSU
<daftykins> little blighter won't POST again after changing card
<daftykins> i don't have the patience for this age gear anymore :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-09
<daftykins> aaaand got the wonky SSD to boot
<daftykins> this is pretty ridiculous but i think the primary SATA controller in the southbridge is faulty
<diddledan> :-(
<MooDoo> hello all, anyone had issues upgrading to Xenial?  getting a failed to fetch i18n index files
<MooDoo> well you can still dist-upgrade, so i'll see what happens.
<MooDoo> laters
<foobarry> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<popey> yo
<MooDoo> trying to keep where were going on holiday from the kids is starting to drive me nuts lol
<popey> haha
<MooDoo> wife is the worst lol she's a bit excited
<penguin42> Still, the bourbon cream drought seems to be over - they're back!
<oab1> #host  irc.perl.org
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDh4uK9PvJU
<MartijnVdS> ^ live space station stuff (dragon supply module docking)
<popey> Compiling MAME on a RPi 2 takes a "long time"
 * popey tries on Pi3
<m6lpi> popey: you're mad..
<popey> wat
<m6lpi> MAME compile on a Pi3
<penguin42> popey: You want to find one of these guys; http://b2b.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5460#ov
<penguin42> popey: 384 64bit ARM cores in 2U
<m6lpi> penguin42: will it run Dom II ?
 * penguin42 shrugs
<popey> nice
<popey> my mame build died after 815 minutes
<popey> [1990100.838852] Out of memory: Kill process 22781 (ld) score 868 or sacrifice child
<popey> during linking
<penguin42> yeh, no useful amount of RAM
 * popey adds a touch of swap
<diddledan> teehee: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/719218767788666880
<diddledan> I'm glad he can still find humour
<popey> hm, building mame (again, with swap) on pi2 and pi3 together, the pi3 isn't exacly massively outperforming the pi2
<zmoylan-pi> ram a bottle neck for mame?
<penguin42> popey: Why would it?
<popey> i thought the 3 was supposed to be a bit quicker
<diddledan> popey: maybe that's due to swapping?
<popey> its not swapping
<diddledan> fair enough
<diddledan> in that case then I'm as surprised
<popey> it needs more ram, but I cant add that
<diddledan> I heard it's like 30-40% faster than the 2
<popey> the ram is only needed when it gets to linking
<penguin42> popey: It is clocked a little faster; but the Pi3 is still running in 32 bit mode which is a bit of a shame
<popey> true
<diddledan> good point
<diddledan> maybe when we start seeing full-64bit toolchains it'll improve compilation speed
<popey> friend of mine has a scaleway arm box
<popey> but they've run out, no more left
<diddledan> :-(
<penguin42> popey: oh, damn I had a plan for one of those
<diddledan> yeah I don't think they were prepared for the demand they received
<popey> yeah
<diddledan> great idea though
<popey> i think an arm chromebook might be worth a look
<popey> especially the samsung 2 which has 4GB RAM
<diddledan> apart from the different formfactor of their custom design, and that they don't have physical storage with the individual boards, it's like a datacentre of pis
<popey> I'm sshe'd into a friends' scaleway box
<penguin42> popey: datacentred.co.uk were doing ARM cloud by the hour as well but it seems to have dropped off their pricing page
<popey> [    0.000000] Machine model: Scaleway - C1 Computing
<popey> heh
<diddledan> scaleway are doing x86 board now :-(
<diddledan> ref: https://www.scaleway.com/pricing/
<popey> yeah, i got an invite, and clicked the "start your first server" then got "Temporary out of stock"
 * penguin42 has this nutty idea to try building a CEPH cluster among 3 dirt cheap cloud providers for the heck of it
<diddledan> do you have any plan for using it, or just gonna build it "because"?
<diddledan> both perfectly fine choices - don't feel I'm belittling either of them
<penguin42> diddledan: Well the extended nutty plan is to figure out how to back smtp/imap onto a system like that and then have a properly resilient mail server
<diddledan> oooh
<diddledan> funky
<penguin42> diddledan: Beware that it may be more nutty than a walnut whip, and I've not really thought about any detail
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> the best projects are the random ones
<penguin42> it's also queued behind two other projects I'm not getting very far on
<diddledan> I've got a few plans that are still to take form
<diddledan> also**
<popey> Linking mame...
<popey> \o/
<diddledan> ready for it to OOM
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-03
<daftykins> mornin'
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> cor, well if this goes to plan i'm going to venture north for a change... i've booked to see The Cranberries in Glasgow
<zmoylan-pi> have you packed you english - scottish phrasebook? :-P
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> i'm still recovering from discovering that whilst our postcodes begin 'GY' theirs appear to be 'G' or 'GI'
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.wildernessscotland.com/blog/essential-pocket-phrasebook-scottish-vocabulary/
<daftykins> heh i know a few o' those
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> o/
<foobarry> are there any good wikis out there that support markdown?
<foobarry> (as the main wiki language format or has native support)
<foobarry> wikis don't seem to be getting much love nowadays. lots of stale projects out there
<SuperMatt> Wikis are *really* easy to write
<SuperMatt> you could have one written in python/flask in an afternoon, with full markdown support
<foobarry> enterprise ones with privileges and security are harder
<zmoylan-pi> 2-3 here mention markdown... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software
<zmoylan-pi> but it does seem that as wikis have stagnated markdown came along later and is not been implemented in them much
<SuperMatt> quiet here today
<zmoylan-pi> IS THIS BETTER? :-P
<SuperMatt> MUCH
<zmoylan-pi> OK
<popey> GREAT!
<daftykins> someone in another chan said it's so quiet they thought it was Sunday
<brobostigon> it is a sunny day, maybe everyone has bunked off work and is in the pub already? lol.
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> it's a monday... people are getting through a weekends worth of idiot emails...
<daftykins> noon day cannon went off over on the castle here today, might even have been the first day of the season for it!
<popey> BOOOOOOOOOOM!
<daftykins> :D punctuated by fog horn today, too
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmm, does your lifeboat service their use maroons?
<zmoylan-pi> they do here and even 2 miles away i can hear them go off...
<SuperEngineer> I think most lifeboat stations still use maroons... beats shit out of mobile phones with flat batteries!
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen pagers still in use around dublin so they could use those... months of battery from a single aa...
<daftykins> my bad, i wasn't sure what that meant and had swanned off to another channel
<SuperEngineer> ...& you only get a flash in the sky from a bang bang.... unless you own a samsung of course ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, thought they would be in use more... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_(rocket)
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: re "noon day cannon went off": I didn't realise you lived in Gibralta!
<daftykins> :> nah just Guernsey
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<daftykins> the Queen gets honoured across a good row of cannons too, when the events occur
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of cannons dotted around... i pass 2 on walk yesterday... would have been 3 but yacht club seems to have moved their small starting gun
 * SuperEngineer is glad is a "good row of cannons" rather than a "naughty set of cannons"
<daftykins> :>
<SuperEngineer> ooo... just turned firm's tablet on for 1st time in 3 weeks.  It's now doing an Andriod system update....
<daftykins> ooh-err
<SuperEngineer> ....should have checked battery level first, I suppose...
<SuperEngineer> ...could even walk over to the socket and plug it in to charger...
<SuperEngineer> but decided on the "fun" option instead! [a.k.a couldn't give a s**t]
<daftykins> not one sooty and not one sweep!
<SuperEngineer> BOSS: "what d'yu mean the tablet failed during an upgrade and now you can't it on?!"
<SuperEngineer> ME: "cba"
<zmoylan-pi> the entire office can now gather around and start betting on the outcome of the update... put me down for a fiver on bricks the device :-P
<daftykins> ooh bold call
<SuperEngineer> I accept your Â£5 with gratitude
<SuperEngineer> [would it help to know I'm signed off work sick?
<zmoylan-pi> phew, by the time you collect that will be less than â¬5 :-P
<SuperEngineer> like I said... cba
<daftykins> such disdain for office equipment ;_;
 * zmoylan-pi takes daftykins red stapler...
<SuperEngineer> yup. my bad, me bad
<daftykins> uh that'th my red thtapler, thank you...
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: quick, grab the selotape and secure it!
 * daftykins stretches a couple of metres around zmoylan-pi and the nearest lamp post
<SuperEngineer> DAMN! firm's tablet update got to the "optimising aps" stage [or as I call it, "aptimising ops"]
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: you now owe me that fiver. I'll use it for my "couldn't even brick it when trying to brick it" consolation prize ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> send an address in pm...
<SuperEngineer> grrrrrrr
<zmoylan-pi> is that grrrrr road or drive? :-P
<SuperEngineer> lol
<SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39481770
<diddledan> daftykins: noon cannon boom combined with horn .. isn't that the "michael bay" sound?
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4itJv_DXhI <-- the michael bay sound
<m0nkey_> Right, so PornHub is hiring in my city. Product Manager, PHP dev and front-end/js dev. I should totally apply for it.
<diddledan> m0nkey_: wow
<diddledan> funny people are funny : https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqrdphdwudq557o/Screenshot%202017-04-03%2023.33.36.png?dl=0
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-04
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Cordon Bleu Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<brobostigon> does anyone get a "secure connection failed" error when going to openbsd.org in FF?
<popey> www.openbsd.org unexpectedly closed the connection.
<popey> in chrome
<popey> so it's busted
<brobostigon> ok, thank you.
<TwistedLucidity> Seems they fixed it (or I am getting a cache)
<TwistedLucidity> Ah http*s* is boned - yeah
<knightwork> morning ppepz
<knightwork> peepz
<Azelphur> well this is amusing, apparently UK passport office rejected my gfs forms because they are "wonky" I'm waiting for a callback from them now
<Azelphur> questions will be things like "It was printed on a standard HP LaserJet...are you saying I edited the pdf, rotated it a few degrees, then printed it?"
<Azelphur> I'm starting to feel a bit like I'm a magnet for stupid people
<popey> maybe the paper went through askew, it happens
<popey> and their scanning software might not be able to cope with more than a couple of degrees of skew
<Azelphur> popey: maybe, looked fine before I sent it. I actually reprinted it too just to have a look, still looks fine
<Azelphur> I suppose it's possible, but the answer is "use your eyes" not "print a new one and send it half way across the country"
<daftykins> hmm where do you guys sit on the fridge vs. cupboard for tomato ketchup debate? :D
<daftykins> i've always put it in the fridge but only because my folks did, however i found an article where they interview a molecular biologist who says due to them dropping the salt content, you should put it in the fridge
<zmoylan-pi> putting cold sauce on your chips cools them faster... i prefer them as hot as possible
<daftykins> yeah, that is one problem of the fridge method
<zmoylan-pi> kinda like keeping butter in the fridge.  it's just better at room temprature
<zmoylan-pi> with all the various other perservatiives in it i reckon it's ok in irish climate
<daftykins> yeah, guys point was there used to be way more salt
<zmoylan-pi> true but other ingredients like vinegar have very long lifespans
<diddledan> daftykins: I don't sit on either the cupboard nor the fridge
<daftykins> ah say n'more, you're a washing machine fella eh?
<diddledan> yeah, good vibrations
<zmoylan-pi> probably one of those common people who leave it sitting on the table...
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1hnBv12-uk
<zmoylan-pi> but the washing machine would keep bottle constantly shaken...
<daftykins> i think he likes it like that
<zmoylan-pi> a condiment aggitator.... :-P
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> an aggitator? those croc-like things are scary
<daftykins> spot the article of someone trying to ship spiders and snakes into Aus? as if they don't have enough kill-you things already? :>
<zmoylan-pi> those are spiders and snakes... THESE are spiders and snakes...
<zmoylan-pi> *those aren't spiders and snakes... THESE are spiders and snakes...
<daftykins> ah i see you've played dangerous species outside of its' home before!
<zmoylan-pi> and you completely left out the sharks, jellyfish and poisonous mammals...
<daftykins> hey it wasn't me! :D
<zmoylan-pi> reptiles and my favourite a tree that makes all the rest look like pleasent deaths... http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2009/06/gympie-gympie-once-stung,-never-forgotten/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> hello
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Day Of Hope! ð ð±
<directhex> is something screwy going on with ports.ubuntu.com? i'm getting hash sum mismatches in my xenial armhf CI
<diplo> Anyone alive in here today ?
<zmoylan-pi> .....brains.....
<diplo> See if I can get some suggestions. We support customers with software etc I'm sorting ssl certs out for our erp system
<diplo> so i can resolve software.domain.tld and LE SSL works etc
<diplo> We use Draytek ( as do a lot of our customers ) and I want to be able to resolve software.domain.tld across all subnets/vpn's whatever on our sites
<diplo> I really just think I'm buggered and I'll have to add a manual entry on each router unless I setup a bind or dnsmasq on the main site and get all the others pointing to it, which is way past my remit
<diplo> Think I may have got around it with some routing \o/
<acheronuk> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
<acheronuk> Unity & Mir - RIP
<acheronuk> Gnome shell for 18.04 LTS as ubuntu default it seems
<ali1234> about time
<ali1234> convergence was a terrible idea from the start
<zmoylan-pi> i think there's a place for convergence... i'm just not sure anyone will do it right
<ali1234> there are basically two types of users, people who don't need a desktop PC, and people for whom a phone isn't anywhere near powerful enough to replace their desktop
<ali1234> as a result, convergence is good for nobody
<zmoylan-pi> there is a 3rd group... people who can get by with very low spec systems and just want a docking station to add a decent screen and keyboard when not out and about
<ali1234> you can do that on android, it works fine
<zmoylan-pi> i've wanted such a system since a company played around with one for psion 5's back in the day
<ali1234> there's no need for convergence
<zmoylan-pi> android is an os i just don't trust
<zmoylan-pi> ditto chromeos
<ali1234> then you shouldn't trust ubuntu phones either, since they run on the same backend
<zmoylan-pi> true and i wouldn't have
<ali1234> did you read that story about hacking broadcom's baseband?
<ali1234> that's the danger zone, not the android UI
<knightwi1e> hey everyone
<ali1234> i just hope that canonical can knock some sense into the gnome desktop
<ali1234> i might finally be able to use it if they can
<ali1234> i'll probably just keep on using xfce though :)
<acheronuk> I'm not shifting from KDE ;)
 * zmoylan-pi will stick with xubuntu
 * brobostigon sticks with either xmonad oe i3wm, :)
<brobostigon> i3 is prefferred.
 * zmoylan-pi seems to be spending more time in tmux these days... :-)
<brobostigon> :D
<zmoylan-pi> none of this namby pamby wishy washy fluffy wuffy guis.... :-P
<foobarry> wow big news
 * brobostigon likes zmoylan-pi :)
<zmoylan-pi> it is a real pity if not unexpected for the ubuntu phone
<foobarry> i was discussing with a colleague the other day. how much time had been spent on disruptive projects
<foobarry> and they should can mir, unity and align more closelyon making something awesome
<foobarry> gnome3 is the only thing that sucks harder than unity though :P
<brobostigon> infact, gnome-shell does the tiling which i like from i3wm.
<foobarry> how many man-years have just been binned that could have been spent on working together on stuff?
<zmoylan-pi> it's not linux unless you fork early and often :-)
<foobarry> while i agree its a good decision , decisions along the way such as mir have made this more seismic
<foobarry> canonical will surely have much more resources free to make a great desktop that were being wasted on making slow progress
<zmoylan-pi> aren't they just redirecting all their efforts into the current fad of iot?
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: there might be a reason why my fiance convinced me to test out an openbsd install on her, after her doing her own reser
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: there might be a reason why my fiance convinced me to test out an openbsd install on her, after her doing her own research.
<zmoylan-pi> i do intend at some point to give slaceware a spin...
 * brobostigon likes a simplest debian install.
<foobarry> unity sent me away from ubuntu. hopeful for what happens next
<zmoylan-pi> unity sent me running screaming towards xubuntu.  it was a short sprint... :-)
<foobarry> realising you have made a mistake is beginning of wisdom
<foobarry> and acting on it takes balls
<foobarry> what happened to that debian on phone project?
<foobarry> maru os
<foobarry> shuttleworth's page has melted
 * zmoylan-pi holds out for emacos for phones :-P
<foobarry> the funny thing is, the cheapest solution is also the best in terms of making most linux desktop users happy. don't alienate
<daftykins> yip, so going out on their own with new projects all the time harms things
<foobarry> provide some nice tweaks to the common desktop and push them upstream, and provide the best theme etc that everyone will want to use
<foobarry> anyone heard from popey ?
<daftykins> seen him speak today, definitely alive :>
<popey> hello
<popey> mostly been chatting on telegram where every channel has been on fire
 * brobostigon has been following ubuntu phone pebble on telegram.
<brobostigon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzORnRVZDkM
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> are there any more insights in addtiion to what shuttles has revealed?
<foobarry> will they make gnome3 suck less or just stick with defaults?
<foobarry> and why not 17.10?
<foobarry> since it's usually considered the beta for the LTS
<popey> i would imagine 17.10 would be similar to 18.04
<popey> doesn't make sense to land all the new stuff in the LTS
<sebsebseb> WOW at the breaking news!
<foobarry> i guess the question is will there be new stuff, or mostly stock gnome
<foobarry> aren't you mainly doing phone stuff popey atm? you safe?
<sebsebseb> foobarry: without unity less of a reason to run ubuntu much less of one, there are other distros that do gnome better
<foobarry> au contraire
<foobarry> we haven't seen what ubuntu have produced yet. they could do waht they did in the early days and provide compelling reason to use ubuntu over other OS by havng nice tweaks etc
<sebsebseb> foobarry: uh the old GNOME 2 patching they used to do, mostly sucked
<ali1234> do people actually still run ubuntu for the desktop environment?
<ali1234> only reason i still run it is for the archive and the support
<ali1234> i'm not going anywhere near fedora
<diddledan> so with unity going away, does that mean mir is, too?
<brobostigon> debian and openbsd on mine and martners machines.
<ali1234> i see ubuntu as debian without the attitude
<brobostigon> diddledan: gnome-shell is moving towards using wayland.
 * diddledan flames ali1234
<ali1234> mir is kind of pointless without unity
<sebsebseb> ali1234: I read a blog post bofore about how it could be used by other htings
<sebsebseb> but yeah
<ali1234> it could be, but why?
<sebsebseb> exactly
<sebsebseb> ali1234: I am running ubuntu for unity
<sebsebseb> in more recent years
<sebsebseb> otherwise nope
<sebsebseb> GNOME works better in other distros, debatably
<sebsebseb> all other interfaces run else where to etc
<ali1234> but nothing else does
<sebsebseb> some of them debatably are really more user freindly than ubuntu to
<ali1234> using proprietary software sucks in any other distro
<ali1234> nvidia drivers, skype, steam... ubuntu does them all way better than any other distro
<zmoylan-pi> it's kinda the lowest common denominator for linux
<zmoylan-pi> if it's gonna only work on 1-2 distros 90% of the time it'll be ubuntu
<diddledan> I vote gentoo
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> yes, and the other 10% of the time its RHEL 6.2
<zmoylan-pi> you have shares in intel diddledan? :-P
<daftykins> intel o0
<ali1234> anyway, maybe the community will take over unity, and rip out all the bad stuff
<diddledan> I wonder whether AMDs neural net branch predictor will benefit or hinder compilation
<zmoylan-pi> what would be left? :-P
<diddledan> to be fair, though, I don't really understand low-level stuff
<ali1234> the launcher is nice
<diddledan> the lawn chair? :-p
<ali1234> indicators are really good
<foobarry> did gnome3 ditch the minimise button?
<ali1234> probably
<zmoylan-pi> or changed it to a stealth button that appears as far away from the mouse as possible...
<ali1234> thinking about it, they'll have to rip out the dash, because it won't work wihtout the server
<ali1234> the online bits that nobody likes, anyway
<ali1234> the big problem with gnome is it has zero capability to be extended in any way
<foobarry> you mean the extensions that crash the system and are generally imcompatible
<m0nkey_> In a weird way, I like Unity.
<m0nkey_> Never could get on with Gnome3
<diddledan> ^ ditto
<ali1234> also the lack of multimonitor support
<ali1234> but unity is not much better in that respect
<sebsebseb> m0nkey_: I ike unity 7 and 8
<m0nkey_> Never used multi-monitor in Linux, always a pain to configure.
<sebsebseb> but prefer GNOME 3 GNOME Shell really :d
<sebsebseb> but been using unity 7 a lot this past year or so
<ali1234> i like unity 7 more than i like gnome
<sebsebseb> when not on ntablet
<sebsebseb> then its 8
<ali1234> but i like gnome more than i like unity 8
<sebsebseb> unity 7 is easy to use
<sebsebseb> a menu down the side on left
<sebsebseb> a few idcons on top right
<sebsebseb> yep
<sebsebseb> GNOME 3 is more flashy but its good like that :)
<ali1234> unity 8 is just nonsense
<sebsebseb> and unity 8 is good as well,  when you give it apps
<sebsebseb> etc
<sebsebseb> like on the tablet or on deskto pwith snaps
<ali1234> the tablet version of unity 8 is just awful
<sebsebseb> no its good
<ali1234> everything is done with swiping, there's zero discoverability of anything
<sebsebseb> good enough for me
<sebsebseb> been using that as my main device for about a year in fact
<sebsebseb> but only mostly doing web browisng and email and basic things so yep
<ali1234> and all the apps are just web containers
<sebsebseb> well there have been some good native apps to
<ali1234> half of them are broken because the underlying websites changed etc
<sebsebseb> but yes stuff like that caused ssues app problems
<ali1234> there's no consistency in the UI
<sebsebseb> they should have supporte d android apps really
<sebsebseb> like salifsih and tizen
<sebsebseb> probably
<ali1234> not even in the native bits is there any consistency
<ali1234> its half material design, half something that looks like blackberry OS from 2003
<ali1234> there was never a convincing developer story wrt SDKs and docs
<ali1234> i've said it about a million times before, but they should never have dropped unity 7 Qt version
<ali1234> that should have been the main version, and drop compiz
<ali1234> unity 7 had loads of problems, but they could have been fixed, instead of wasting time on convergence, that was already proven to be unwanted in the market
<ali1234> (multiple times)
<zmoylan-pi> it has never been done right in the market...
<ali1234> android has a better "convergence" system and all they did was make it support USB mouse and keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> convergence feels at the moment like tablets in the 90s
<ali1234> zmoylan-pi: yes, literally
<ali1234> because it is trying to force things into a wrong UI
<zmoylan-pi> technically possible but done so badly as to be useless except for niche applications
<sebsebseb> ubuntu tablet and logitech k480 is nice
<ali1234> meanwhile android tablets and ipads are amazing now
<ali1234> and the reason for this is because they understood that people use tablets for different things than they use desktop PCs for... and therefore its pointless to run the same software on them
<zmoylan-pi> tablets sales are shrinking atm aren't they?
<ali1234> yes, but only because literally everyone has one
<daftykins> a shrink from a lot is a lot
<daftykins> *still a lot :D
<ali1234> smartphone sales are not shrinking
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not so sure... when i game i meet with a bunch of people who all have laptops and keyboards but still drag heavy hardback manuals as they are far superior to any ebook experience
<daftykins> those aren't your average folks though, by the sounds
<ali1234> manuals, who even uses those any more?
<zmoylan-pi> yet the biggest social media reports from last mwc was the nokia 3310 reboot :-)
<ali1234> i can't remember the last time i bought something that had more than 2 pages of english instructions
<zmoylan-pi> d&d manuals are super important to gamers... i have the pdfs but still read the paper copy as it's faster easier
<ali1234> they're generally out of date before the product even ships anyway
<ali1234> paper is kill
<ali1234> the only time i even use a pen is when i'm writing a christmas or birthday card
<zmoylan-pi> even ebook sales are down in some stories i've seen as readers choose paper over ebook.
<ali1234> or rolling a cigarette
<ali1234> wait, i don't use a pen for that, but you get the idea
<zmoylan-pi> but that might be down to ebooks been a pain with drm more than anything else
<ali1234> yeah those people buying books are like hipsters buying vinyl
<zmoylan-pi> i think i was using a palm device when i first encountered not been able to move a book between devices :-)
<ali1234> normal people just don't have the time or space to deal with a large collection of physical media
<zmoylan-pi> vinyl sales are doing very well :-)
<ali1234> yeah they have a niche market
<ali1234> bet most of it never gets played
<zmoylan-pi> books are nice when you're in someones place as you can read the titles on the shelves
<ali1234> bookshelves are nice to put in the background of your youtube videos, to make yourself look clever :)
<zmoylan-pi> won't that block the national flags showing your patrioism?!
<ali1234> you can just get loads of books about nationalism, and kill two birds etc
<ali1234> but anyway
<ali1234> if ubuntu is going all-in on IoT and the cloud, does that mean we can finally get ubuntu for all models of raspberry pi? since that is pretty much the defacto board for linux IoT now?
<zmoylan-pi> hmmmmmm. i could get ones with green, white and orange dust jackets and place them so they make a flag... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't that be a big leap to jump to arm from x86?
<zmoylan-pi> i _would_ like to run ubuntu or xubuntu on a pi3...
<ali1234> well you can
<zmoylan-pi> for varying levels of /run/ :-)
<ali1234> no, fully
<ali1234> xubuntu anyway
<ali1234> not unity, it needs compiz and opengl
<ali1234> no, the issue is the pi zero
<ali1234> pi 3 is a power hog, and huge
<ali1234> its not good for IoT devices
<ali1234> nobody wants a smart widget that uses 15W even when it is turned off
<zmoylan-pi> great for keeping frost out of the greenhouse :-)
<daftykins> oh my, i heard this announcement about this Radio 2 DJ dying this morning on the news - turns out they were wrong
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-06
<SuperMatt> I'm not surprised by the news today. After it was announced that Ubuntu would be tracking gnome again, it seemed like it was a foregone conclusion. I'm a little bamboozled why it won't be default in 17.10 though - I would expect it to be tested there before becoming default in LTS
<sebsebseb> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * SuperEngineer checks clock, checks window.... and agrees
<SuperMatt> While I agree on principle that these are the facts as it stands, one should not draw attention to them, lest it tiggers a panic attack in some of the channel dwellers
<SuperMatt> that is, please stop reminding everyone it's morning, because it's terrrible
 * SuperEngineer withdraws comment, closes curtain, adjusts clock... and agrees, it is indeed bedtime ;-)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy New Beer's Eve! ð ð»
<SuperMatt> This is the eve of new beers? What kind of beers will we get tomorrow?
<SuperEngineer> Is it a leap beer?
<SuperMatt> I'd rather not do any leaping while drinking my beer
<SuperMatt> Though I would personally prefer to drink wine
<SuperEngineer> ah, yes... wine.  The only beverage designed to allow Windows games to be played on Linux
<brobostigon> which is also handy when cooking a ragu.
<TwistedLucidity> SuperEngineer: It's always morning somewhere
<TwistedLucidity> Unless you are using some badly written software, in which case it's randomly half-past last Tuesday.
<SuperEngineer> :)
 * TwistedLucidity thinks any coder who can't handle datetimes should have their fingers broken.
<SuperEngineer> lol, a coder who has a date?
<TwistedLucidity> A date. Maybe a prune.
<SuperMatt> Alas, coding datetimes is considered one of the biggest frustrations in programming
<SuperEngineer> surely, even coders have girlfriends
<SuperMatt> wouldn't be a problem if all countries ditch DST
<SuperMatt> then we could near enough half the number of timezones
<TwistedLucidity> Some even have (shocker) boyfriends!
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe
<SuperMatt> I'm a Linux enthusiast, and I admit to having a wife!
<brobostigon> my gf isnt my wife yet, :(
<TwistedLucidity> I'm not even thinking as far as DST, legislative TZ changes etc. I am thinking of fundamentally not knowing that a time offset even exists and that any time can be assumed to be local.
<TwistedLucidity> Does
<TwistedLucidity> My
<TwistedLucidity> Head
<TwistedLucidity> In
<SuperMatt> We were watching Mr Robot the other day, and she found it so... "invigorating" that she insisted I copy the next episode on to them memory stick via command line
<TwistedLucidity> You didn't transcode it in VLC using the ASCII filter? :-)
<SuperMatt> naw, it was already in the correct formats, so it was just a copy
<SuperMatt> but I did make sure to use rsync -avP so she could see the progress
<brobostigon> i am lucky though, my gf plays D&D with me, :)
<TwistedLucidity> Media formats is something I should understand better.
<SuperMatt> I don't think my wife would be interested in playing D&D, though she would certainly find it "interesting" to watch a group of guys playing
<popey> I have never played any D&D in my life
<TwistedLucidity> Watch "The Gamers" by "Dead Gentleman productions". A delightfully terrible movie. The sequel is even better (the best actor is an artificial tree).
<popey> would like to I think
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> Some people play over hangouts these days
<popey> oh
<TwistedLucidity> How fun it is depends on the Dungeon Master to a large extent
<SuperMatt> No need to physically relocate
<SuperMatt> yes indeed, the DM is the most important person
<TwistedLucidity> Loads of gaming cafes opening up around here. Seems to be the latest craze.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: yes, to DM takes alot of poractice to get right.
<brobostigon> practice*
<SuperMatt> Wembley would never get something like that. If it doesn't cater to the football crowds, it's not going to get approved
<TwistedLucidity> Because some upstart little dwarf usually wants to go off piste......
<SuperMatt> *le sigh*
<SuperMatt> I'm normally the upstart dwarf, and not just because I'm 5'4"
 * brobostigon normally plays a wizard when he isnt DM'ing.
<SuperMatt> we could do a #ubuntu-uk D&D via hangouts
<brobostigon> human wizard*
<brobostigon> :D
<SuperMatt> although a simpler system might be better
<SuperMatt> Fate is pretty good for quick games
<SuperMatt> and it's OS
<SuperMatt> http://www.faterpg.com/
<brobostigon> to DM long distance like that, is doing to be very difficult.
<SuperMatt> aahh no, all you need is a wiki/dropbox/google drive and hangouts
<SuperMatt> ah, this is the correct site for Fate: http://www.evilhat.com/home/fate-core/
<TwistedLucidity> RasPis, mics, TVs....could have multiple "teams"
<SuperMatt> Why would we need the RasPis?
<SuperMatt> All I'd need is my laptop
<SuperMatt> it would be useful to use and IRC bot to do the dice rolls
<TwistedLucidity> Easier to to on a TV with a group of peple I would have thought
<SuperMatt> well, whatever step up you want in your own home is up to you
<TwistedLucidity> Hence why I said "teams"
<SuperMatt> I'd just be on my laptop
<SuperMatt> Of course, the only time I have to play is on Saturday mornings
<TwistedLucidity> Well as the g/f would also want to play D&D, collaboration with a TV might be easier. And I can sit on the couch (we have no dining table).
<SuperMatt> fair
<TwistedLucidity> In theory I could play in the home office, but the reason I have an office is I don't want to be in there after hours unless I absolutely have to be
<SuperMatt> I would play on my kitchen table
<SuperMatt> though there's no reason why I couldn't play on the tv
<biomorph> Hi all.  I did an apt upgrade earlier this week and my wifi has gone very iffy.  I can't be the only person that this has happened to.
<biomorph> applet says "Device not ready".  If I turn off wifi (from the applet) restart NetworkManager and re-enable wifi it works.
<biomorph> But I have to do this at every restart.
<biomorph> I'm using 16.04
<SuperEngineer> Woah!  It's way past April !st, Ars Tech.... but a brilliantly funny headline even so:
<SuperEngineer> https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/04/siime-eye-vibrator-security-issues/
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: they've given it a thorough going-over
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<diddledan> they've seen it's privates
<SuperEngineer> they've been where no hacker dare to go before
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if they're affected by the airplane  cabin electronics ban...
<SuperEngineer> "volunteers wanted for security in flight testing project"
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> mile high
<diddledan> "we require security professionals for a mile high penetration test"
<diddledan> I saw a teardown of a massager which was mains-powered. it was scary to think people put that near their thingy
 * SuperEngineer unplugs massager
<zmoylan-pi> people injure themselves every day with zips in that area...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: owie!
<zmoylan-pi> worse when afterwards they have to then open the zip to free themselves
<diddledan> here tis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKQmBWTRnw
<diddledan> maybe nsfw, I can't remember
<SuperEngineer> not to sure I want to watch if that is re "zip injuries"
<diddledan> no, that was 'the rinky pink pounder. hitachi magic wand clone "teardown"'
<SuperEngineer> oh, in which case I'm guessing your right with nsfw
<zmoylan-pi> you were researching it for testing the mtbfs for hard drives... :-P
<diddledan> nah, someone posted it in the freenas channel
<diddledan> several days/weeks ago now
<SuperEngineer> Anybody here use that thar telegram thingy?
<SuperEngineer> [apart from the obvious]
 * diddledan beeps in a pattern into a phoneline
<diddledan> bip bip bip, beep beep beep, bip bip bip
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * zmoylan-pi whistles v.32 in response
<diddledan> I will never understand new fangled telegrams
<diddledan> give me pony express
 * SuperEngineer sends fax and goes "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
<zmoylan-pi> im is the new fad.... again... so every company has to have their foot in the water and be completely incompatible with all others
<diddledan> what happened to XMPP is the future of all IM?
<diddledan> even Google did XMPP for a while. they're closing it down
<SuperEngineer> it got swallowed by YNQQ
<zmoylan-pi> they all ignore that as they want lockin
<diddledan> how does libpurple fare these days with the various locked-in protocols?
<SuperEngineer> ajdfff ftg-p[dgvj' uolkhn,dd fek'd krpf['c emrmygfcdedsza\
<SuperEngineer> [that was "ah, but you can send encrypted messages iusing trlrgram"
<zmoylan-pi> gort, klatu barada niktu - that was you wouldn't recognise klingon so i resorted to ancient meme
<SuperEngineer> ...and you can also an arsehole complete be Telegram on
<SuperEngineer> that "encrypted message needs no translation, but describes the current state of some the channels a lot better]
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: you *do* realise what you've just done, don't you?
<zmoylan-pi> sent a large robot to look for the alien...
<SuperEngineer> it might find me!!!!!
<zmoylan-pi> play dead
<SuperEngineer> then I've got the tedious job of having to save the planet - yet again
<zmoylan-pi> save the planet 5 times and get a free bagel
<SuperEngineer> [tho might accidentally let whitehouse be the only victim - whoops, clumsy me]
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi lies!  [either that or the bagel delivery service is complete rubbish]
<diddledan> speaking of bagels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfs4PAF94Wg
<SuperEngineer> "anyone want one of these?"  rofl
<SuperEngineer> Also, on the subject of bagels: if by some strange coincidence, I was suddenly to get an urger to try out Unity8 [for absolutely no reason, you understand]...
<SuperEngineer> would it be sufficient to simply install "Unity8 desktop session for Mir"?
<SuperEngineer> ..& did it ever get supported by nVidia driver?
<SuperEngineer> oh, I said "on the subject of bagels", didn't I...
<SuperEngineer> so, if whilst eating a bagel and getting an urger to try out Unity8....
<SuperEngineer> *urge
<ali1234> mir doesn't support nvidia, it also doesn't support most graphics cards
<ali1234> installing the desktop session is theoretically enough
<ali1234> but it will only work on a handful of cards (much like wayland)
<ali1234> last time i checked it would only work on intel HD graphics
<diddledan> this is taking xmpp a bit strangely: http://archipelproject.org/
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: hmmmmmmmmm, not the answer I was hoping for.... but thanks for the info
<ali1234> you're not missing much
<diddledan> unity 8 is going away anywho
<SuperMatt> Viva Gnome!
<SuperEngineer> yup, I wanted to see what I what never going to be able get otherwise, curiosity.
<diddledan> viva espana
<SuperEngineer> viva Zipatta
<ali1234> does anyone know if it is possible for a gnome shell extension to completely remove all the visible parts of gnome shell, and then replace them with something actually good?
<ali1234> also, is it possible to write extensions in a language other than javascript?
<SuperMatt> Quite interesting that none of the major distro (not including spins) decided to ship with KDE
<ali1234> not that surprising, given how much it crashes
<diddledan> doesn't OpenSuSE use KDE by default?
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure
<zmoylan-pi> kde users are only happy when ignored by all the major distros... :-)
<ali1234> yes, but opensuse is not a major distro :)
<ali1234> opensuse is now a continuous integration system that sometimes produces a working iso
<SuperMatt> quick! check distrowatch to see if it has a high %age
<SuperMatt> even though we know it's a terrible metric
<SuperEngineer> Stop knocking opensuse!  The disc once stopped my coffee table from getting stained!
<SuperMatt> heh
<ali1234> wait a minute
<ali1234> i always thought SuperEngineer and SuperMatt were the same person :O
<zmoylan-pi> you ran out of aol floppies?!
<SuperMatt> silly ali1234
<SuperMatt> openSUSE does indeed use KDE by default
<SuperEngineer> on the other hand... we both think you should be known as SuperAli, diddledan should be known as SuperDidd, ali1234 should be known as SuperAli.....
<SuperMatt> agreed
 * SuperMatt waits for the flood of name changes
<SuperEngineer> ,..forgot; & zmoylan-pi should be known as SuperZmoy
<SuperEngineer> we await...
<ali1234> anyone know where i can get a set of plastic samples?
<ali1234> different kinds of plastic that is
<ali1234> not just 100 different colours of perspex
<SuperMatt> plastics r us
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: a plastics fabricator?  Surely there must be one in your region.
<ali1234> probably but i dont know what to google for
<ali1234> most companies seem to specialize in one type of plastic
<SuperEngineer> k
<ali1234> hence their sample book is "100 different colours of X"
<zmoylan-pi> are you looking for plastic for a particular task?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i need a thin, rigid plastic that is semi-transparent, and can support a living hinge
<ali1234> also should be neutral colour
<SuperEngineer> mylar?
<SuperEngineer> oh, hang on, not rigid
<ali1234> not rigid
<ali1234> also it must be possible to glue it, so not teflon :)
<SuperEngineer> have you tried posting to a university research dept?
<ali1234> no :)
<ali1234> how would i even do that?
<ali1234> what i need is something like the stuff they make plastic milk bottles out of
<ali1234> but a bit thicker
<zmoylan-pi> High Density
<zmoylan-pi> Polyethylene
<zmoylan-pi> lists the types used in wrappings... http://www.wrap.org.uk/content/types-plastic
<ali1234> LDPE might be better
<ali1234> oh!
<ali1234> "ice cream containers"
<ali1234> yes, that's what i want
<ali1234> that's HDPE
<SuperEngineer> that's HOPE [pardon thwe pun]
<ali1234> now i just need to find a 1mm sheet
<SuperEngineer> A commercial food container from a kitchen [pub, restaurant, school]?
<ali1234> i dont even need a big piece...
<zmoylan-pi> i was looking for plastic a few months back.  i did find sheets down the local diy store. not cheap but you never know
<ali1234> ebay has every type of plastic you can imagine, and cheap
<ali1234> just a matter of finding it
<zmoylan-pi> thing about diy store is you can have a good poke
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: it's a good job I have perfectly innocent mindset tucked in this skull
<zmoylan-pi> it's the one in the tupperware in the freezer we worry about...
<SuperEngineer> hurumph
<foobarry> finding myself refreshing all the social medias in order to find a snippet more info about the ubuntu announcement. but there isn't any
<SuperMatt> Phoronix has said that half the unity 8 team have been laid off
<SuperMatt> I guess it may come down to running low on funds to continue inventing new things that weren't gaining traction
<foobarry> the other half diverted to making ubuntu great again?
<SuperEngineer> Yea gads, you should see the idiots on telegram channel discussing this... it ain't pretty
<foobarry> can i see that in a browser?
<foobarry> or do i not want to?
<SuperEngineer> you don't want to
<SuperEngineer> you have better things do do with your life
<ali1234> i dont
<ali1234> is it worth going to troll them?
<SuperEngineer> these are not the droids you are looking for
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: yes, it would be fun
<foobarry> so telegram is slack for opensource?
<popey> i guess.
<foobarry> or is more like whatsapp?
<popey> that
<ali1234> rocketchat is opensource slack
<foobarry> i do indeed have better things to do
<foobarry> even on my day off
<diddledan> I don't get when ubuntu-related stuff should be on the rocketchat instance or on irc
<diddledan> (yes, there is an ubuntu rocketchat instance!)
<diddledan> see: https://rocket.ubuntu.com/
<SuperEngineer> popey, would it be insensitive to say that I hope your day hasn't been too much pile-of-poo-like
<diddledan> how is wishing someone well ever going to be insensitive?
<diddledan> popey: we wub j00
<popey> i can imagine other people have worse
<SuperEngineer> nods
 * diddledan cuddles the pope
<diddledan> hmm, was that the wrong pontification?
 * diddledan hugs the popey too
<diddledan> wat: "The International Monetary Fund (IMF) Investigation Department Washington DC is here by to inform you that  we recently received several reports through our Global surveillance network that your transaction has failed to be successful after diverse efforts because the offices and individuals involved has made it a swindle opportunity hence they
<diddledan> continue to demand for money without substantial reasons."
<diddledan> "Consequently this esteemed office has today recuperated your funds valued the sum of Â£5,000.000.00 (Five million pounds) from the erratic custody, meanwhile if you noticed any change of amount or value itâs rather as a result of the false information you have been fed or imparted by those hoodlums."
<diddledan> don't you love these spams?!
<diddledan> those hoodlums!!
<diddledan> this guy has a strange approach: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2017-April/017379.html
<diddledan> notably the statement: "If I get support, I'll consider publishing code of linux-purge"
<diddledan> he got called on it several months ago iirc
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> This line kills me "You can donate to me on my homepage now."
<foobarry> autoremove seems to achieve this already
 * SuperEngineer creates home page - waits for donations
<foobarry> my xbox360 is dying :(
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: I donated goodwill
<foobarry> family rely on it for watching amazon/netflix/plex
<diddledan> :-o
<foobarry> i will donate free advice to the guy
<diddledan> xbox360. dead.!?!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLzC3nPhUEM
<foobarry> it freezes after a short while.
<foobarry> gonna try to open it up and hoover it again but i fear it is shagged
<SuperEngineer> check if there's anythinng that do with a reseat while you're dust blasting it
<SuperEngineer> *could do with
<SuperEngineer> ... & use the blowing end of the hoover. not the sucking end!
<SuperEngineer> failing all else - put it back together and give it a good old fashioned slap on the head
<SuperEngineer> it'll hurt your hand but may "reseat" the thingy whatsit that needed reseating
<SuperEngineer> if all that fails... it's memory may be a teency weency bit suspect
 * diddledan reseats SuperEngineer
<diddledan> quite hard
<SuperEngineer> ouch! not *that* hard
<ali1234> whats linux-purge?
<SuperEngineer> a kernel remove script???
<SuperEngineer> a replacement for prunes???
<diddledan> ali1234: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-May/016574.html
<diddledan> continued at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-October/017000.html
<diddledan> and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-September/016954.html
<foobarry> SuperEngineer: i think its a cooling issue or needs some fresh thermal paste on the chips
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: feel free to hit anyway, it may not help the 360 but it'll make you feel good
<foobarry> i call it an xbox, its a skyrim box
<foobarry> so, has anyone actually tried maru OS?
<foobarry> precious little on youtubes
<KnightW0rk> evening
<diddledan> does anyone use a cow orking space? I'm wondering whether the cows are provided or if you need to take your own :-p
<DJones_> diddledan: Whats a "orking space"?
<diddledan> DJones_: where one orks
<diddledan> specifically in this case, orking of cows
<DJones_> I don't even want to think what that involves
<foobarry> http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/04/06/broadcom-wifi-vulnerability-allows-remote-code-execution-affects-almost-android-devices/
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> so much fun
<diddledan> there was an iOS version of that a few days ago
<diddledan> it might not be the same vuln but similar in that the wifi was allowing remote code exec
<diddledan> is your mainframe leaking memory like a sieve? you need Visual COBOL: https://www.microfocus.com/products/visual-cobol/visual-cobol-for-visual-studio/
<zmoylan-pi> is it available on punch cards?
<foobarry> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/06/canonical_cuts_jobs_with_unity_bullet/
<diddledan> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/lego-macintosh-classic-raspberry-pi/
<zmoylan-pi> [6~
<zmoylan-pi> sorry... just testing my falling asleep at the keyboard warning... :-P
<diddledan> this case is too small: https://i.redd.it/71nt7zdd8yoy.png
<zmoylan-pi> line the rest with cardboard for your cats nuclear bunker...
<diddledan> I've seen it all now: https://www.facebook.com/GameSpot/posts/10158552160725436
<zmoylan-pi> you've had access to the internet for how many years now? :-P
<diddledan> am I crazy to consider writing a FUSE applet?
<daftykins> that hot plug file system handling malarkey?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> filesystem in userspace
<daftykins> "e" :D
<daftykins> my cat Mischief is abusing a fly that flew in earlier today
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> gotta love fly abuse
<daftykins> doin' her job at last
<daftykins> diddledan: oh i suppose you're still insider-ing but the new official build of 10 came out yesterday via the download tool
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> already updated a couple of victims
<diddledan> did they die?
<daftykins> newp, all good - although the little things that get reset irritate mildly :P
<daftykins> e.g. my mapped drives get renamed! gasp!
<brobostigon> 1or did they smef? :)
<daftykins> what language is that? :D
<brobostigon> smef = spontanious massive existence failiure,
<brobostigon> douglas adams/terry jones.
<diddledan> oh no, not again
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> how to not get anything done - https://www.dropbox.com/s/jlh6pujnlxws760/IMG_20170406_171201.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> the two little terrorists followed me in the room
<diddledan> sleepy time methinks
 * diddledan knackered
<daftykins> g'night sir
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-07
<ali1234> what does "GA" mean?
<daftykins> in what context?
<ali1234> "There were a healthy handful of Unity 8 fans, calling for its GA"
<daftykins> general availability was my first guess
<ali1234> okay but what does that actually mean?
<daftykins> more than likely being spun into a release as defaults
<ali1234> it is already generally available in the common sense
<daftykins> can't say i know much about it, is that phone only then? well touch only
<ali1234> no, you can just install it on 16.04
<ali1234> it doesn't work on many graphics cards
<ali1234> but i don't see what that has to do with availability...
<daftykins> perhaps 'GA' is more so for the common user, not an enthusiast wanting to tweak
<ali1234> so "finish it"
<daftykins> e.g. i bet MS consider Windows 10's 'GA' as being the 11th of April, yet they already published it to their download tool, so i've installed it already
<ali1234> wut?
<daftykins> sorry Windows 10's 1703 update build, 15063
<ali1234> oh, i see
<ali1234> so more like "tell people it's finished"
<daftykins> fanfare and throw them an ISO, i suppose :>
<ali1234> trouble is its obviously nowhere near finished
<daftykins> that's the trouble with fans i suppose :>
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<SuperMatt> s'Friday
<brobostigon> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy No Housework Day! ð
<SuperMatt> I'll let the wife know, thanks
<brobostigon> :)
 * zmoylan-pi dials 99 and poises finger for final 9 and waits for thud from SuperMatt 
<SuperMatt> Oh she loves doing the housework, and tells everyone she meets that she's a housewife
<SuperMatt> I barely have to lift a finger most days
<directhex> anyone have strong feelings on estate agents, other than swearing?
<diplo> No strong feelings but there are good ones, normally the smaller ones
<TwistedLucidity> A necessary evil
<TwistedLucidity> And I guess I will find out how evil when it comes to selling thing place :-(
<SuperMatt> I'm not 100% certain it is. Don't they have a high turn over of staff because it doesn't really take that much to learn about the process, and not many people want to do it for long?
<diplo> My ex works for one, I do IT work for them, they've had the same staff for 10 years ish, so not necessarily, but they are small
<SuperMatt> I guess the bigguns like foxtons are the ones were they have a high turn over
<arsenip> you're gambling 'nice experience with smaller local agent' vs 'higher sale price with foxtons' - always a compromise.
<SuperMatt> Foxtons will probably get you a quick sell too, because if someone can't manage a viewing *that day*, they won't bother with them any more
<arsenip> they do stuff like 'we'll only show you if you have AIP and they know its exactly the place you're aftuer.. thus likely to offer ASAP'
<arsenip> then start some bidding war to get it sold
<arsenip> bernard marcus cost me at least Â£7500 with that crap
<arsenip> also hi :p
<TwistedLucidity> Â£7.5k????????
<TwistedLucidity> What were you selling? Balmoral?
<SuperMatt> If it was in London, then it was a flat with a bed under the washing machine
<arsenip> indeed, welcome to london.
<arsenip> they cost me in organised bidding war price raises rather than fees as a seller.
<SuperMatt> Why should the bidding war cost you any money though?
<TwistedLucidity> Another reason to avoid London
<TwistedLucidity> That and I'd never earn enough to live there, other than in a cardboard box
<arsenip> because i paid 7.5k above what they wanted for it
<TwistedLucidity> That doesn't sound to bad TBH. I heard tell of places in Glasgow's West End going for 50% over the guide price.
<TwistedLucidity> Which is nuts.
<arsenip> idd, still got a good deal by london standards
<SuperMatt> oh, you were buying
<arsenip> oh, sorry :p yes.
<TwistedLucidity> Seems selling fees should be around the 1-2% mark (all depending on price, services etc)
<TwistedLucidity> So for this place I'd end up paying...lessee....Â£3.25 :-S
<SuperMatt> I kinda feel like the fees should be a flat rate, so there's no way that the estate agents can prioritise selling of more valuable properties
<arsenip> these days they dont get a cut from the sale price i think
<arsenip> tend to make more money from bringing property onto the books (commission structure is aimed at that, rather than sale price)
<SuperMatt> ah right
<diddledan> someone on the tv crew in china for the F1 practice has just won the Internet: https://twitter.com/jaffathecake/status/850321582677479424
<diddledan> WTFWTFWTF syria breaking news!
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-39521332
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Also, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39531108
<diddledan> available as a snap, this looks funky: https://www.zerotier.com/
<arsenip> sadface TwistedLucidity :(
<popey> ali1234: when will more zerostems be in stock? :)
<ali1234> in about a month
<ali1234> maybe
<popey> k
<arsen> bleblehbleh
<daftykins> arsen: o/
<arsen> hi daftykins :)
<daftykins> how are tricks?
<arsen> tricking thanks, you?
<arsen> (busy, started new job)
<daftykins> again! :>
<daftykins> yeah not bad here ta, life on the rock is ok
<arsen> same old :D
<arsen> my company got semi-bought, so a lazy job change :)
<daftykins> ah i see
<arsen> sent links :p
 * lopta needs a job change.
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> arsen: still in nodnoL presumably?
<arsen> indeed
<arsen> moving offices on monday tho - last of my decent view!
<daftykins> nooooo!
<daftykins> down into the basement with ye
<diddledan> nodnoL!
<arsen> eugh
<arsen> the idea of the imgur app is that it's quick images->web
<arsen> but not if you dont know login creds! :/
<arsen> so after much unneeded faff - here's an image that wasn't worth the effort http://i.imgur.com/p4idGtO.jpg
<daftykins> now do another straight
<daftykins> ;D
 * daftykins ducks
<Laney> and landscape
<daftykins> ^
<arsen> pfs
<arsen> tbh it is now faster... dont have to recover my account password (to find i actually used gmail signin)
<daftykins> i like how that *could* be a building shadow but it also looks like it could be arsen's shadow too
<arsen> tho i will go via the bog and get a lobby shot
<arsen> brb
 * Laney doesn't recognise any landmarks in that picture
<arsen> https://imgur.com/gallery/hrQrS
<daftykins> hmm 'the page isn't redirecting properly'
<arsen> odd
<arsen> https://i.imgur.com/B21KPbV.jpg
<lopta> Is that London?
<daftykins> cor quite the drop
<arsen> bishopsgate
<arsen> liverpool st station on the left, if id
<arsen> of stood a few meters left youd see it anyway
<diddledan> that's the lobby?!
<diddledan> I'd hate to see you go out the front-door
<daftykins> :>
<arsen> building split into segments of 3 floors
<arsen> its my lobby
<lopta> Is there a lift?
<arsen> the real lobby is... fishtanky
<arsen> http://i.imgur.com/cdM3ltC.jpg
<arsen> that is better if you actually know the liverpool st area
<arsen> not many landmarks in this view really - NE edge of teh city. i guess there's the olympic park, though that's basically just a massive pringle and some tacky towers.
<lopta> brb, lunch.
<lopta> Am I right in thinking that "Unity" was a desktop environment?
<lopta> Did it have its own window manager?
<daftykins> the one folks have been using for the last few years is essentially skinned gnome i think
<lopta> Gnome 2?
<daftykins> no idea :>
<lopta> Thanks.  That gives me some idea, anyway.
<daftykins> of course if you're referring to the news pieces on unity 8 that got canned, then that is wholly different
<diddledan> unity7 is on top of compiz
<lopta> Perhaps I misunderstood. I heard that they'd abandoned development of Unity 8 but thought Ubuntu was moving (back?) towards Gnome instead.
<diddledan> "Trump is an unstable, ignorant, madman with no regard for democracy but I'm glad he's shooting missiles"
<diddledan> that appears to be twitter right now
<lopta> diddledan: Not all of it.
<lopta> I would elaborate but I'm guessing that would be off-topic here.
<daftykins> heh i wouldn't worry about being on topic in here
<daftykins> although politics might grate
<popey> lopta: yes, that's the gist of it. Goal is to use GNOME Shell by 18.04.
<lopta> Oh.  I've not heard anything positive about Gnome Shell.  I thought even Gnome people didn't like it.
<diddledan> popey: will mainline Ubuntu be co-opting Ubuntu Gnome or going a separate direction?
<diddledan> (I may have invented Ubuntu Gnome :-p)
<diddledan> don't you love when you convince yourself that something exists and someone tells you that, no, you're just a mad person
<diddledan> anyone who misses gaming in the 90s: https://archive.org/details/bad-influence
<diddledan> oh nice, I loved this one, https://archive.org/details/channel4bits
<diddledan> whoever uploaded them got the synopsis wrong though: "hosted on the BBC's Channel 4"
<daftykins> diddledan: oh hey how's the fibre diet working out? :>
<diddledan> it's very loose
<diddledan> the bits are spurting out
<daftykins> all you'd hoped for?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> considering one of them is connected to an atom cpu I get decent throughput of about 6-7Gbit/s
<daftykins> very nice
 * lopta has an Atom
 * diddledan smashes lopta's atom against his own in the LHA
<diddledan> we'll find that higgs boson!
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/RespectfulMemes/status/850405663654027264
<zmoylan-pi> for that we'll need a super nokia collider....
<diddledan> I wanna know who the poor devils are that get their large hadrons bashed against each others'
<diddledan> I keep mine in my pants
<popey> diddledan: working with ubuntu gnome
<diddledan> yey
<diddledan> so, popey, is it viable to switch to ubuntu gnome now and be futureproofed?
 * diddledan waterproofs everything
<diddledan> cute kitty is cute! https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/259097784793222231
<daftykins> haha clients secretary sent me a pic today of one of the girls who had managed to squeeze herself in behind a row of books on a shelf XD
<KnightGnome> evenin
<daftykins> \o
<KnightGnome> heyhey
<KnightGnome> hows it going tonight ?
<daftykins> KnightGnome: sorry wandered off to make food :D all good here thanks yep
<daftykins> just chatting + watching a live baseball game from the US
<diddledan> true
<diddledan> drinkin a bud..
<daftykins> eww no :>
<diddledan> but. that's how the conversation goes!
<daftykins> i think they were watching 'murican football in those ads :>
<diddledan> bah
<daftykins> when i caught a Royals game in Kansas, they had a nice ale bar on the floor above :D
<daftykins> $12 each though!
<diddledan> american baseball == american football == sportsballs
<diddledan> AHA, the chinese have decided to bump him off! https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/850442526683275270
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/geeksaresexy/status/850453327947202561
<daftykins> such physics! i remember gauging a PCs performance with that ;)
<popey> diddledan: too early to make any kind of judgement like that I suspect
<diddledan> fair enough, I'll stay on ubuntu-desktop^ for now then
<diddledan> oh, wow, 17.04 is due early in the release-month (I usually expect it in the last week)
<diddledan> next thurdsday
<daftykins> well y'never know! showstoppers aside
<popey> I'm staying on 16.04
<popey> for as long as I can.
<daftykins> :>
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-08
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> can someone help me with gnome?
<ali1234> how do i use it?
<diddledan> ali1234: I have no idea. it confuses me immensely. :-(
<ali1234> i figured it out. you open gnome-tweak-tool and turn off activities, turn on applications and places
<ali1234> and window list
<ali1234> its not that bad, except for the theme is awful
<SuperEngineer> that's coz you didn't do the hokey kokey
<diddledan> don't forget to turn around
<SuperEngineer> :D
<penguin42> installing xfce instead seems the easiest way
<foobarry> could 17.04 be the most pointless release in years? or to unity lovers, the last great release?
<daftykins> well it won'y be supported long, being non-LTS
<daftykins> *won't
<penguin42> has anyone got Unity into Debian unstable etc?
<foobarry> whats strange is that i've been happy using elementary for years
<foobarry> since i left ubuntu desktop after unity and wanted a similar gnome2+docky experience
<foobarry> and considered that gnome shell sucked more than unity. tried it for a good while and had major issues with buggy and necessary extensions crashing all the time, and awful workflow
 * penguin42 has used xfce for a few years, never really used unity, but I think it's not bad for a touchscreen one that doesn't break normal mouse usage
<foobarry> but now considering moving back to the buntu
<foobarry> since the last elementary release has some bad bugs that the devs seem uninterested in because they are the creative type. once the release is out they don't seem too keen on fixing the experience if it works for them
<daftykins> that distro did seem very poor given the number of folks that used to come into #ubuntu with gripes
<daftykins> and nobody in official channels interested in helping them
<foobarry> apart from libinput which i worked around, the suspend issues after detaching anoher monitor and network/wifi issues on restart are killing me
<foobarry> i need to try stock ubuntu to check if its bad on there too
<foobarry> wow kylin looks very windowsy
<foobarry> the stock gnome experience still sucks , judging by extension reviews "i wouldn't use gnome without this extension", etc
<foobarry> but what if that extension isn't updated for 3.24 version?
<penguin42> the problems with extensions is that they keep breaking
<foobarry> still
<foobarry> ?
<foobarry> well that sucks
<foobarry> i tried it 4 yrs ago
<foobarry> they crashed a lot
<foobarry> and you had to remove them all to find out , such an awful user experience
<foobarry> reducing title bar size would be useful too. seems non trivial
<daftykins> why not xubuntu or kubuntu instead? it's not the end of the world
<zmoylan-pi> for that we'll have to wait and see what trump does next week... :-P
<penguin42> cruise missiles are a bit harsh just for unity
<zmoylan-pi> at least they don't have gnome installed...
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yeh that simplified the choice of missiles because they thoughts presidents found it too confusing; the choice is now between a BB-gun and a thermonuclear missile
<zmoylan-pi> well.... obama favoured drone delivered hellfire missiles so those tomahawks were probably close to their use by dates
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-09
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<farblue> morning all :) Does anyone know the best irc channel to ask about networking / tunnelling questions?
<SuperEngineer> On Ubuntu?  If so, maybe try asking here?   See if somebody here has an answer?
<SuperEngineer> ...or maybe just be impatient & disappear
<SuperEngineer> On behalf of the whole channel, may I apologise for us not providing an answer in under 2 seconds.
 * SuperEngineer is feeling sarcastic today!
<SuperEngineer> Being a modest sort of person it would be wromg og me to say that I think I may have made and am now cooking the world's best chicken stuffing.  So I will say, "in all modesty, I think I may have made & am now cooking the world's best stuffing"
<SuperEngineer> Trouble is, now that I've accomplished that, I feel it is the time to discontinue it and replace it with something worse.
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-02
<lopta> Mornin'
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> how's the xubuntu going? this a first time install?
<lopta> Well, this won't be the first time she's run Xubuntu.  First time in recent years though.
<daftykins> ah, what else?
<lopta> Qimo was her first, then Xubuntu, then Ubuntu, recently Solus and this evening she's probably going back to Xubuntu.
<lopta> (Qimo seems to have been a repackaging of Xubuntu aimed at education).
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i suppose you do get a bit more of the full experience by roadtesting on bare metal versus trying them out in VMs
<lopta> I don't even remember why we went from Qimo to Xubuntu. I think she went to Ubuntu when I replaced her PC.
<lopta> ...then Solus when I installed an SSD.
<lopta> We quite like Solus but one of the few games she plays won't run on that.
<daftykins> :>
<lopta> ...thought about putting Lubuntu on there.  Not sure what the pros and cons are between that and Xubuntu.
<daftykins> just down to personal preference of which desktop you prefer
<lopta> What's Lubuntu? Lxde?
<daftykins> i had always preferred tinkering with xubuntu for xfce goodness over LXDE, yeah
<lopta> I've used Xfce in the past.  I'm not that familiar with Lxde.
<daftykins> i felt it sacrificed a bit too much
<ali1234> xubuntu 18.04 currently has a bug... setup and first login are delayed by 75 seconds. after that it's okay
<ali1234> just in case you decide to try those :)
 * lopta checks which one he's downloaded
<lopta> 17.10.1, apparently.
<daftykins> non-LTS D:
<ali1234> 18.04 is not released yet. i suggest to wait for it to be released
<ali1234> it's like 3 weeks away
<ali1234> otherwise you will just have to upgrade in 3 months
<lopta> That's ok.
<lopta> She doesn't have a lot of things so it's fairly painless to nuke and pave.
<daftykins> hmm got a stack of DDR3 so thought i'd have a go at finding an LGA775 mobo with 4 x DDR3 slots, it's been pretty tough going though
<lopta> I don't think LGA775 even supports DDR3
<daftykins> sure does, i have a rare board behind me with both DDR2 and 3 slots on the same board
 * lopta is surprised
<daftykins> asus P5KC :)
<lopta> I have a few Core 2 Duo chips on the shelf but I don't think I'll get to use them.
<lopta> (aside from the E4500 that's on my general workhorse)
<daftykins> a friend gave me a core 2 extreme X9650, so my Q6600 quad is sat on the shelf right now
<lopta> I'd have to look that one up.
<daftykins> 3GHz quad with oodles of cache vs. 2.4GHz quad with less
<lopta> Cache is good. We like cache.
<lopta> Looks as though the two other Core2 Duo chips I have are an E7400 and E8400.  The 8400 has half the cache of your X9650 and fewer cores of course but it also runs cooler.
<lopta> They're all museum pieces anyway.
<daftykins> yeah, my real machine is downstairs :>
<daftykins> i've got a stack of HDDs here i want to throw together for fun, but i'm lacking a good combo of suitable hardware really
 * lopta nods
<lopta> My E4500 box has a mirrored pair of 1T WD Red disks and no monitor.
<daftykins> let's see... it's an old E6750 in my file server, though i'm finding the lack of USB 3 makes it such that it's quicker to get data off it from another PC over gigabit LAN xD
<lopta> I don't think my OS even has USB 3 support yet, though it's a while since I checked.
<lopta> Firewire used to work though. :-)
<daftykins> that's one dead interface now!
<lopta> Says the person building Socket T machines ;-)
<daftykins> ah i'm just juggling old parts i already have here for free! they're still useful as headless servers running Linux
<lopta> It's still handy for sucking video from old miniDV cameras.
<daftykins> ah never owned one
<lopta> ...and I think I have some Firewire disk enclosures here too.
<lopta> Depending on your OS you can also use Firewire as a network interface but... I don't recommend it.
<daftykins> i'd replace the CPU+mobo+RAM in my file server but... it's running well
<lopta> "If it aint broke, don't fix it".
<daftykins> oh i dabbled with that when i was a kid, discovered it doesn't support IP so that died quick
<daftykins> would've been 400Mb otherwise yeah :)
<lopta> It supports IP but there's some latency there.
<lopta> Plenty of bandwidth but with latency.
<daftykins> ah well perhaps things have changed
<lopta> daftykins: It's possible Linux doesn't support that.  I've never tried.
<daftykins> think i was on windows 98 / XP back when i had the cable the first time
<lopta> Ah right, I've no idea whether Windows can do it.
<daftykins> if i'm honest i'd love some 10GbE toys, 1Gb has felt slow for the large files of HD video for quite a while
<lopta> 25G ftw ;-)
<lopta> It's out in the wild but I'm not sure whether it's formally ratified yet.
<lopta> (I'm a bit behind on my networking news)
<daftykins> i see cheap cards for 2.5/5/10 but the trouble of course is the power consumption
 * lopta hands daftykins a PLIP cable.
<daftykins> my file server is the aforementioned core 2 duo with 8GB DDR2, an SSD, 6 x 2TB in RAID5 and 2 x 2TB drives, whole lot pulls about 85W
<lopta> I'm not keen on RAID5 but if it works for you, that's ok.
<lopta> I lean more towards RAID 1+0
<daftykins> i put it together a long time ago, so it's a legacy situation now - i tend to do 6 minimum now
<daftykins> but more recently i've dabbled with ZFS and RAIDz2
<lopta> I know the FreeBSD people like ZFS.
<daftykins> ja, usable on *buntu too
<lopta> (and Solaris, and probably Illumos)
<lopta> Come to think of it, I should stand up an OpenIndiana box for test purposes.
<lopta> ...that or OmniOS.
 * lopta looks around the room for spare hardware
 * lopta accidentally prices up new hardware
<daftykins> easy mistake to make ^_^
<daftykins> tempted by a board i've found on ebay, but it says untested + they try to say no returns
<lopta> Is it morally wrong to put a $93 chip in a $50 board? :-)
<daftykins> i'd found about that pricing level on some parts recently
<daftykins> cheapest boards with intel gigabit LAN adapters + a 7th or 8th generation i3
<lopta> RAM is what I'm struggling with at the moment.
<daftykins> choice or the nasty prices DDR4 has reached? :)
<lopta> Lack of choice, for the DDR4-2666 DIMMs.
<lopta> Time to re-image. Wish me luck!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<squadBugg_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
<daftykins> o0
<KnighW0rk> hey daftykins how are you man
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> I hope the weekend was good and long for everybody as it was me
<brobostigon> morning
<brobostigon> variable, good and bad.
<SuperMatt> bit quiet in here today
 * diddledan sounds the sirens
<SuperMatt> what are they normally designed to alert to?
<diddledan> I think it's a warning about tsunamis?
<SuperMatt> are you not worried about causing panic?
<brobostigon> so it isnt a politician sprouting crap siren?
<diddledan> I weighed up the pros and cons, and decided what the heck
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> I mean, you only live once, and if you haven't caused mass casualties from stampedes at least once then it's a bit of a wasted life...
<diddledan> of course, for best effect you want to get all the people near water to rush inland to escape the faux tsunami while at the same time raising alarm about a nuclear bomb en route targetting the inland area they're rushing towards
<penguin42> wth did the format of rail tickets change?
<zmoylan-pi> because all the software people had written to handle them was complete? :-)
<penguin42> they've been the same format for decades!
<diddledan> they've changed?
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, they had to go in that case...
<diddledan> harder to forge?
<diddledan> or.. easier to forge?
<zmoylan-pi> it's the train equivalent of moving the location of the bread in the supermarket... :-)
<diddledan> ooh, that's evil!
<penguin42> diddledan: https://mastodon.org.uk/system/media_attachments/files/001/068/303/original/d51053f15692422a.jpeg
<penguin42> doesn't seem easier/harder to anything
<zmoylan-pi> all those people with their own templates knocking out tickets...
<diddledan> refundable for a fee?
<diddledan> it's not much or a return if you can only use it on one journey...?
<penguin42> diddledan: That's one of the two tickets
<diddledan> why print one ticket when you can print two at twice the cost... :-p
<penguin42> right; I have had single tickets that do both ways, but it's unusual
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTUrdizRZyw
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-04
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> What's new?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> how do?
<brobostigon> average, and you?
<SuperMatt> wfh, so all good
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperMatt> *sigh* I wish I could use ubuntu as my daily driver, I'm way more productive on it than on macos
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<diddledan> doom runs on everything! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnmIXK3PYFw
<SuperMatt> some people have too much time
<SuperMatt> that said, it's very impressive
<glen_> Hi, I have a question about opengl es support in ubuntu 16.04
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-06
<SuperMatt> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<brobostigon> morning
<SuperMatt> 18.04 is almost ready for release. Shame there isn't so much buzz around release parties as there once were
<daftykins> arsen: i'm in London until Tuesday if you wanna hang!
<daftykins> pretty close to the Chelsea pad from last time
<awilkins> Huzzah, Bionic with Unity is almost usable in a VM. With any luck it works on bare metal quite well....
<penguin42> awilkins: What's it doing to you in a VM to be 'almost' and which VM?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> penguin42: \o
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-07
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<Guest30401> can anyone tell me what this means bash: 0: can't open while systemctl list-jobs | grep -v friendly-recovery | g rep -q running: do-sleep 0;2; done
<penguin42> Guest30401: I'm not sure what you're actually trying to do - but the grep -q near the end will try and grep for 'running:' in the files do-sleep and 0  - and it can't find a file called 0
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-08
<ball> I just introduced my two year old to Chorlton and the Wheelies.
<penguin42> was that wise?
<ball> I think it was necessary.
 * penguin42 used to live near that Chorlton when he was that age
<ball> :-)
<ball> brb
<ali1234> medlock or hardy?
<ball> Fred Wedlock
<daftykins> ah these B&W speakers sound absolutely phenomenal at quiet volume levels
<ball> I should buy some bookshelf speakers.
<daftykins> hey ball, it's been a while - all well?
<ball> daftykins: Not bad thanks.  Got my daughter's PC re-imaged with Xubuntu.
<ball> daftykins: How are you?
<daftykins> nice :D yeah pretty good thanks, been spending the last few days in London doing cabling work and setting up the IT + audio/video in my clients new apartment
<ball> Was IT there mostly Ethernet?
<daftykins> i had a hand in the spec so i made sure to put 5 x LAN in the lounge behind the TV, one on the little office desk - another behind the master bedroom TV and a couple more in there behind the bluray player
<ball> Any WiFi?
<daftykins> yep got a Power over Ethernet wifi AP in the kitchen here mounted up in the ceiling of a cupboard
<ball> I have to buy a new DVD player because my two-year-old tortured the old one to death.
<daftykins> doh! get the LG BP250 - it's a bluray as well but upscales standard DVDs, so if you have any HD TVs they'll look better - it's also super cheap (was under Â£50 to us)
<daftykins> also a really neat little small unit
<ball> I don't really want BlueRay
<ball> ...the players are a nuissance because of the software upgrades etc.
<daftykins> that's calmed down a lot now, i've not had to update one in years
<daftykins> i think the focus for that hassle has switched to the 4K UHD players now :)
<ball> OK good.  I'm also being told to buy a television but I'm struggling to find one (at Best Buy, sadly) that's not a "smart TV"
<daftykins> mmm, the same chip that enables good image processing is always capable of the fancy smart features so they put it in - it's easy enough to just not connect it to your network if you don't want to use it though
<ali1234> yeah, some kind of SoC with integrated GPU
<ball> daftykins: It would still have all the nuissance built in.
<ali1234> they really don't. normally you have to reboot them into smart mode
<ali1234> same with blu-ray players actually
<ali1234> they dual boot to separate the (horribly insecure) smart features from the secure content playback
<daftykins> mmm i've seen it all combined on a 'home' screen now as it happens
<ali1234> maybe they use virtualization now... dunno
<ali1234> been a while since i even used a TV :)
<ali1234> if you really really don't want a smart TV you could always buy a PC monitor
<daftykins> here's the WAP, just don't tell him i didn't exactly centre it... https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/Y8YDf5Rxq8BBBQd
<ali1234> and get a separate tuner box for it
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> and an HDMI switch to get more than one input :D
<daftykins> suddenly you have yourself a modular TV xD
<ali1234> nah you can get monitors with loads of inputs
<daftykins> multiple HDMI in one would be odd though
<ali1234> but if you don't want any "smarts" then i don't see why you'd need more than two inputs at most
<ball> In the family room we had a 19" CRT and a DVD recorder with an ATSC recorder in it.
<ali1234> my monitor has two DVI and one HDMI
<ball> s/recorder/tuner/
<daftykins> yeah but for AV uses i was thinking, ali
<ali1234> true - no audio through DVI
<daftykins> so if all HDMI you'd be in a bind over conversion cables and then lack of - yep :D
<ali1234> i'm sure they exist tho
<daftykins> maybe
<ali1234> my monitor is really old. HDMI wwasn't popular
<daftykins> i'm still rocking my Dells from 2008 - two DVI, HDMI, displayport v1.1, VGA, composite and component in on one display
<ali1234> yeah i think we have the same one
<ball> ...that TV has since been recycled.
<daftykins> ah har :D
<ball> ...and the TV that replaced it has its own ATSC tuner.
<daftykins> ball: glad to hear ;)
<ali1234> someone here recommended it to me
<ali1234> possibly you :)
<ball> I'd have to put an aerial up the tower though to receive anything.
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i got the first and then loved it so much i sold my old 2407 and got a second to match
<ball> The WiFi you put in, was that 5 GHz?
<ali1234> i have two ancient 17" 4:3 LCDs either side
<daftykins> dual band, 600Mb -n and 2:2 stream 866Mb -ac
<ball> I like 4:3
<ali1234> one is my old monitor, picked up a second recently for Â£10
<ball> daftykins: I'm tempted to turn 2.4 GHz off.
<ali1234> they are from like 2002
<daftykins> ball: but yeah when i visited here before the refurb i saw how busy the 2.4GHz was so told him it was going to be a total no on 2.4 :)
<ball> ...I'll need a new mobile phone first though
<daftykins> yeah i'm tempted to turn it off too, not 100% sure if every one of their devices does 5GHz though
<ball> I've seen some really sucky 2.4 GHz WiFi networks lately.
<daftykins> poor performance?
<ali1234> tis dell has a bug with display port. if you power off the monitor it tells the computer you disconnected it, so it removes that screen and moves all your windows somewhere else
 * ball nods
<ball> Measured 1 Mbit/sec across one of them.
<ali1234> so i don't use DP and instead have a bunch of converter cables
<daftykins> hrmm was that not down to your distance from them or property construction?
<ali1234> and that WAP, aren't you worried about interference from that washer/dryer?
<daftykins> ali1234: oh yeah mine do that, but i don't think that's a bug - i think that's hotplug - when i used a DVI on each with my older graphics card it didn't know one went off and so didn't care
<ball> daftykins: No, it was just congestion.
<ball> Their 5 GHz LAN was much better.
<ali1234> yeah it's a "feature" of the spec, but it's totally dumb
<daftykins> ali1234: he (my client) has a bit of doing things without certain considerations - but this is more of a home from home for him so i don't see there being much laundry getting done :)
<ball> ...but their sucky equipment was on a sucky 2.4GHz AP
<daftykins> ah i see
<ali1234> newer models have a setting to disable the "feature" because nobody wants it
<daftykins> oh that'd be nice, i was starting to think that i would have to source cables without the hotplug pin or something
<ali1234> not possible on DP - i looked into it
<ball> I like 5 GHz.  You get much more elbow room.
<daftykins> ah that's a shame
<ali1234> you have to get eg a DP to HDMI converter which blocks the signal
<daftykins> a friend recently got an nvidia g-sync monitor using DP - and began seeing the same behaviour
<ali1234> which is what i've done
<daftykins> active box or just a cable?
<ali1234> it's technically active but the circuit is so small you could not tell. does not need external power
<daftykins> ah neat
<ali1234> just look slike a regular cable
<daftykins> the builders hadn't put in much cabling here so i had to pop to a nearby Richer Sounds and spend about Â£150 on cables xD pesky directional HDMIs
<daftykins> just leant about amazon prime now so i've got a couple of 4K blurays coming in the morning :D
<ball> I didn't know Blueray could do 4k
<ball> ...not that I'll be buying a 4k TV
<daftykins> you need a whole new player
<daftykins> and cables xD
<daftykins> honestly the 4K resolution is arguably no great benefit, but the HDR tech is the real deal
<ball> DVD and a 720p would suit me fine ;-)
<daftykins> yeah if they did 1080p discs with HDR that'd be fine to me - you just can't appreciate 4K res on say, the 55" LG OLED TV we chose for here - at the distances you want to sit for such a size
<ball> I physically don't have room for a 55" set anyway.
<daftykins> OLEDs are truly amazing TVs :)
<ball> 35" would be about perfect but I'll probably end up with a 40"
<ball> OLED sounds expensive.
<daftykins> none of that ugly backlight bleed from LCD - blacks really are black
<daftykins> yeah it is a bit of a premium, i got my 55" in the black friday sales for Â£1,150
<daftykins> my friend in Houston got hers for $1,400 inc tax in the sales
<ball> That's too much to pay for a television when I have children in the house.
<daftykins> mmm could be risky
 * ball nods
<ball> ...anyway, the gift card I'm using for the new television has about US$ 280 on it.
<daftykins> probably one plus of wall mounting, but my clients 4 year old loves to put his handprints all over these TVs
<ball> I should check whether my daughter's Kindle can do 5 GHz WiFi
<ball> Perhaps I should look at a wall bracket.
<daftykins> the ubiquiti i bought for here came with all that and a PoE injector, so like you saw in the pic it only has a network cable at this end - very nice
<daftykins> in the front cupboard i have the injector plugged in to send power over that port on the patch panel
<ball> We used a PoE switch at the non-profit I work for.
<ball> At home the wireless router covers the whole house.
<ball> (don't ask about WiFi at my other job ;-)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah they tend to be a lot more expensive for home use, no other device was planned to be PoE too
 * ball nods
<ball> I like that there are switches that have a few PoE and mostly ordinary ports.
<daftykins> *nod* little price compromise
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> o/
<zmoylan-pi> plans for today... a nice walk in nice weather
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> it's looking all gloomy here in nodnoL
<zmoylan-pi> lots of museums you could putter about...
<daftykins> yeah, i've just been sent my orders though so there's more to do
<daftykins> due to surprise extending my trip, i've just had to test-run the washing machine and dryer, too :D
<penguin42> this is the bit where you have to work out how to drive them
<penguin42> I once spent about 30mins in one hotel room trying to figure out how to drive the microwave
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> i was afraid that they were switched off at the isolation switches on the wall due to not being plumbed in yet, but didn't want to text the builder guy on a Sunday
<daftykins> i saw grey hoses at the back though and thought meh, worst case scenario is i flood the place and trash a pricey carpet... :D
<zmoylan-pi> the only question really is... did you install linux on the washer/dryer/microwave.... :-)
<daftykins> ah that reminds me, my friend in Japan sent me an amusing image
<daftykins> one mo...
<daftykins> https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/SRzz38kXoyFdrdj
<penguin42> containerisation at it's finest!
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: you're more than welcome to pinch that for twitter use :)
<zmoylan-pi> swipe... post... :-) https://twitter.com/angryearthling/status/982968204548100096
<daftykins> :D
 * zmoylan-pi won't be happy till they a line of pyrex so it can work in my oven too... :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: let me know how many posts you get asking if you're holidaying in Japan :D
<DJones_> Afternoon all
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you holidaying in Japan? ;-p
<daftykins> hrmm a client of mine has a few domains with 123-reg, she asked me to add another email forwarder today, but on logging in i discover that in fact the domain had been moved to 'expired domains' DNS, yet she's been paying just fine
<daftykins> anyone else seen similar?
<daftykins> heh wow major issues at their end, at first he was claiming ICANN verification failed
<penguin42> oh that's going to be fun to fix
<daftykins> wow this is a colossal example of a perfect storm
<daftykins> i like the way i bypassed security entirely when on the phone
<daftykins> maybe best not to do business with 123-reg...
<zmoylan-pi> diddledan: one does not holiday in japan... one sends a drone these days to fit right in... :-P
