#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-14
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<\sh> agoliveira, ping :)
<agoliveira> \sh: Hi there.
<\sh> agoliveira, hi :) good to see you...
<\sh> agoliveira, I don't know if you received my email concerning galculator and your hildon patch
<agoliveira> \sh: Yes, I actually answered it this morning. Didn't you get it?
<\sh> agoliveira, hmm...lemme check :)
<\sh> agoliveira, ah...it was hiding from me :) 
<agoliveira> \sh: As I said, you can do what you see fit I'm fiddling with it anyway :)
<\sh> agoliveira, ok, I'll merge it or sync it from debian first then...or would it be better to create a bzr branch for it? we could host it inside your ubuntu-mobile tree or in our -motu tree 
<agoliveira> \sh: It's already on universe, why create a branch?
<\sh> agoliveira, to deal with our (your) patch to track it and hopyfully upstream can catch our patches much better then out of  a source package :)
<agoliveira> \sh: The way we're working with UME is to keep the same source. When it's compiled for lpia arch it's when the changes are actually valid like the hildon interface.
<agoliveira> \sh: I understand your POV but it's not the way we're working now.
<\sh> agoliveira, ok..so motu can merge it like always and you apply the patch later when it's build cleanly
<agoliveira> \sh: Yes, that will do it. BTW, are you merging it soon? As I need to change the interface a little bit, would be nice do it on the newest code.
<\sh> agoliveira, I was doing it yesterday, but it was blocked because of your hildon patch :) that's why I was asking in the first time :) 
<agoliveira> \sh: Ah, ok. So please, just ignore my patch and go ahead. Let me know when you're done so I can reapply it.
<\sh> agoliveira, cool...I'll ping you or write an email...:)  
<agoliveira> \sh: Cool. Any ETA?
<\sh> agoliveira, I'll start now with the new upstream from debian...and see if I can sync it from debian or if I need to merge it and upload manually...
<\sh> agoliveira, 1hour and I need more .)
<agoliveira> \sh: Fine, just let me know when you're done. Thanks.
<\sh> agoliveira, will do...when someone tells me now how to jump from my INBOX to the next folder with unread emails in evolution...or I have to switch back to claws *grmpf*
<agoliveira> \sh: Repeat after me: evolution is evil :)
<\sh> hehe
<agoliveira> \sh: Really, I tried several times and aways returned to thunderbird.
<\sh> agoliveira, I'm in love with claws :) but I need evolutions PIM functionality
<\sh> agoliveira, I opened a sync request for galculator...you can work on the debian package directly until it hit ubuntu universe...
<agoliveira> \sh: I'll just put it aside for now while it syncs. Thanks.
<\sh> agoliveira, do you have any specs or documentation for this hildon stuff? when I stumble upon more of those patches it would be cool to know something about it :)
<agoliveira> \sh: Well, there's some on the ubuntu wiki but for the hardcore stuff you can check this out: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/maemotraining/
<\sh> agoliveira, cool..and I see that there is a emulator for this as well..so someone can test the stuff, too :)
<agoliveira> Yep
<agoliveira> rustyl, ToddBrandt: Hi guys. I have a question for you: are in your plans that moblin-applets includes a clock, I mean a full clock with alarm, etc?
<ToddBrandt> <agoliveira>: not at the moment, but we're always open to suggestions
<agoliveira> ToddBrandt: I'm asking because I have to implement one and I'm wodering if you thought about it. I guess I will just implement one that can later be called from the applet.
<ToddBrandt> <agoliveira>: moblin applets currently just relies on the date and time applet in gnome-system-tools, I'd take a look to see if there's any support for alarm clocks or custom clock displays in the latest gnome-system-tools
<agoliveira> ToddBrandt: Coolie. Thanks.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-15
<inuka> bryce: Do you now which package I need to install to get the poulsbo drivers in ubuntu?
<inuka> bryce: Your packages worked correctly against the moblin kernel.
<bryce> inuka, excellent to hear!
<inuka> bryce: but since I was not abie to find the poulsbo drivers for the ubuntu kernel I was not able to test them against the ubuntu kernel
<bryce> inuka, can you confirm from /var/log/Xorg.0.log that you're running psb version 0.2.6-0ubuntu1~psb1?
<bryce> er, that should be psb2
<inuka> bryce, I am not....  , where is the package posted? 
<bryce> ok, so you installed and tested my libdrm2*~psb1, and the *-psb-0.2.6-0ubuntu1~psb2 driver, and X came up?
<bryce> could you email me the Xorg.0.log from the system?
<inuka> yes libdrm2 and xf driver, against moblin and moblin poulsbo kernel driver
<inuka> if you point me to the package which contains the psb-kernel driver for ubuntu I can test against the ubuntu kernel
<bryce> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11274048/libdrm2_2.3.0-4ubuntu2%7Epsb1_lpia.deb, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11330118/xserver-xorg-video-psb_0.2.6-0ubuntu1%7Epsb2_lpia.deb
<inuka> bryce: thanks let me check it out
<bryce> hmm, that I'm not so sure about...  however it should be one of the packages at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive
<inuka> bryce, I got those two..... but I need the kernel drivers the package is psb-kmd...
<bryce> hmm
<bryce> well, I don't see it there either.  My guess is that it's incorporated into one of the linux-ubuntu-modules packages, or perhaps linux-restricted-modules
<bryce> let me check more
<inuka> bryce, I will also check and try to find out, if not I will rebuild the kernel driver just to test
<bryce> inuka, based on StevenK's suggestion of either l-r-m or l-u-m, I guess maybe try installing http://launchpadlibrarian.net/11327679/linux-restricted-modules-lpia_2.6.24.4.4%7E804um1_lpia.deb and http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10664305/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-14-lpia_2.6.22-14.41_lpia.deb
<StevenK> bryce: One of them is 2.6.24 and the other is 2.6.22
<bryce> huh, well that's what's on the PPA.  But I'm just pulling guesses out of my ass here.
<inuka> bryce, I will try that if I dont get the kernel driver I will just build that we know for usre the changes will work against the ubuntu kernel
<bryce> ok
<StevenK> inuka, bryce: Give me a sec, I'll have a look.
<bryce> inuka, here is the 2.6.24 lum:  https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/2.6.24-4.7
<inuka> bryce, thanks I will chekc it out
<bryce> inuka, luck so far?  I'm working on reverting my box from the C0 to B0 board
<inuka> bryce, the kernel drivers installled through the linux-ubuntu-modules package seems bad.... I am recompiling the kernel drivers manually to see if I can get it to work
 * bryce nods
<bryce> yep, it's the board
<bryce> wow
<HappyCamp> StevenK, Is it something quick?
<StevenK> HappyCamp: Quickish. It seems --bypass-rootstrap is a no-op in image-creator. Could you add that your list of stuff to investigate.
<HappyCamp> Okay, is there a bug on that?
<StevenK> Happy to file one, if you point me where
<HappyCamp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/moblin-image-creator/ should do
<HappyCamp> That way the other guy working on image creator also know.  Plus they will nag us about it in the bug meeting.
<StevenK> HappyCamp: Aye. I'll point you at the bug number after I file it.
<HappyCamp> Thanks!  I've got to go.
<HappyCamp> Please do post the bug number and feel free to assign it to me HappyCamp so I get the emails right away.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> Mithrandir, StevenK: is anything blocking the upload of bug 181304?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 181304 in bluez-gnome "[bluez-gnome] Please upgrade to new upstream version release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181304
<Mithrandir> dholbach: I don't think so.  StevenK should know.
<StevenK> I thought I uploaded that ...
<StevenK> Is that 0.15?
<StevenK> Hrm. Seems I'm wrong
<StevenK> dholbach: Sorry, I've uploaded it. I could have sworn I had already...
<dholbach> StevenK: if it's done, that's cool :)
<Mithrandir> StevenK: you noticed the hostname/sudoers problem earlier, did you commit a fix for it?
<StevenK> No, since I wasn't happy with my solution.
<Mithrandir> ok
<Mithrandir> fair enough
<StevenK> Would you like to see my solution?
<Mithrandir> sure
<StevenK> Mithrandir: http://paste.ubuntu.com/3576/
<Mithrandir> seems sane enough to me, or we can just drop the mangling completely
<Mithrandir> I've never understood why it's there in the first place.
<StevenK> Changing the hostname at boot just seemed ... hacky
<StevenK> And editing files with sed during boot made me feel dirty
<Mithrandir> you could have used sed -i
<StevenK> My sed foo isn't particularly strong
<StevenK> That sort of thing should be done at the end of the flashing process, though. Then we don't need to do it during boot.
<Mithrandir> amitk_: just testing the image before I give it to you so you don't waste more time than you need to.
<Mithrandir> amitk_: try http://err.no/tmp/menlow_full_install-usb.img ?
<Mithrandir> (and anybody else with a menlow system who wants to try it out)
<amitk_> Mithrandir: downloading now
<inuka_desk> ping amitk)
<inuka_desk> ping amitk_
<amitk_> inuka_desk: brb (10-15 minutes)
<inuka_desk> amitk_ , is the poulsbo kernel driver in the ubuntu modules deb good. I installed it yesterday and seems bad. I tried the packages for both 22 and 24. 
<inuka_desk> amik_ , this is against the ones in ppa
<inuka_desk> ping bryce, I sent you my number give me a call 
<inuka_desk> bryce, how are is the libdrm xf driver test going on. Looks like I will have to recompile the ubuntu mobile kernel to recompile the psb drivers
<amitk_> inuka_desk: hi
<inuka_desk> amitk_, hi did see my previous message I typed away without paying attention 
<amitk_> inuka_desk: please delete all your projects and create a new one with the kernel and modules from today
<bryce> inuka_desk: smagoun was able to get an image with all the required pieces in place, but X did not start up:
<inuka_desk> bryce, did the screen blink?
<bryce> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/52040/
<bryce> <smagoun> bryce: note that I installed the xorg-modules-xpsb package (which contains /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/Xpsb.so ) in hopes that it would help. No luck though.
<inuka_desk> amitk_, so are the updates in the moblin repo as well (if I use image creater create the ubuntu image will it bie sufficient or do I need to pull in from PPA)?
<bryce> oh, I'm not sure if that's a log from *his* image, or from Mithrandir's
<bryce> <Mithrandir> bryce: I built your testing debs (psb) on hardy; they fail to display an image at all.  VESA works fine.
<bryce>  bryce: confirmed on B0 and C0 boards.  What, if any, useful information can we give you?
<amitk_> inuka_desk: I have synced everything to the moblin repo in the last kernel.
<bryce> I'm attempting to boot this image myself
<inuka_desk> amitk_ , thanks will do
<inuka_desk> bryce, weird the log indicates that the kernel driver loaded correctly, which is the issue I was having.
<inuka_desk> bryce, let me create a new image and see how far I get.
<amitk_> inuka_desk: bryce: I urge you create a new project from scratch with the new kernel. It will avoid us chasing ghosts...
<bryce> amitk-bbl: I've been having some trouble getting image-creator to run, but if people point me at img's, I'll be happy to boot and play with them
<amitk-bbl> bryce: are you running the one from git or from the hardy repo?
<bryce> I'm about to boot the one Mithrandir made earlier
<amitk-bbl> bryce: i meant image-creator
<bryce> oh, I've tried the one in gutsy and the one from the PPA
<bryce> I also have a snapshot I checked out a long time ago that used to work, but it's not now.
<bryce> I'm suspecting a configuration issue maybe
<bryce> but it just crashes on startup so it's a bit hard to identify what's going wrong with it
<amitk-bbl> bryce: gutsy? I am working with Hardy here
<amitk-bbl> inuka_desk: are you working with gutsy too?
<inuka_desk> amitk-bbl, I tried both before. Right now I will use what ever is on the moblin repository.
<bryce> as I was given to understand, the target is to get the X bits working on gutsy
<bryce> but I have plenty of hardy systems if things work better there
<amitk-bbl> bryce: My focus is to get hardy working
<bryce> interesting
<amitk-bbl> inuka_desk: I am not sure what you are testing. Aren't you testing the Ubuntu kernel with xorg driver? What are you taking from moblin?
<amitk-bbl> bryce: AFAIK, the image provided by Mithrandir is Hardy based
<inuka_desk> amitk-bbl, yes thats what I am testing, I am talking about the image-creator ubuntu-kernel fset
<amitk-bbl> inuka_desk: aah.. fair enough. :)
<amitk-bbl> inuka_desk: make sure it installs linux-image-lpia-2.6.24-4.7
<inuka_desk> amitk-bbl, ok I will double check it.
<bryce> I've got mithrandir's image installed and booted, and I see it's failing at X
<bryce> I'm seeing the ubuntu logo from the startup screen but it's corrupted
<bryce> amitk-bbl: ok, some earlier discussions focused on making -psb work on gutsy had me confused that the objective was to get this working on gutsy.  davidm's straightened me out that we're aiming for hardy.
<amitk-bbl> bryce: good to be on the same page :)
<bryce> the -psb includes a hack that is really only appropriate for gutsy.  So I'm wondering if removing that would make things work better.
<bryce> I'll start there.
<bryce> ok, booted with vesa...  looks like X works.  The top bar is empty though.  Interesting.
<bryce> hmm, no network on this img
<amitk-bbl> bryce: the top bar was empty for me too, and nm-applet doesn't work due to some D-bus permission errors
<bryce> amitk-bbl: does networking work for you?
<bryce> route is empty
<amitk-bbl> bryce: no it doesn't. NM is somehow broken...
<bryce> hrm
<bryce> amitk-bbl: any way to work around it?
<amitk-bbl> bryce: you are trying with the usb-ethernet thing that came with the board, right?
<bryce> yes
<amitk-bbl> bryce: and you don't happen to have another make? 2.6.24 broke the asix driver - totally unrelated, but tragic for our efforts...
<bryce> nope
<amitk-bbl> I wonder if we can setup IP-over-usb
<bryce> hmm, the date on libexa looks correct, and different from -psb's date
 * amitk reads up
<smagoun> bryce: I was able to use a USB key to install .debs with Mithrandir's image. The key shows up at /dev/sdb
<bryce> smagoun: yeah that's what I'm looking at doing; do you have a list of the .debs you tried out?
<bryce> (and where they came from?)
<smagoun> bryce: On Mithrandir's image or our gutsy build?
<bryce> on Mithrandir's image
<smagoun> I didn't do much with Mithrandir's image, just tried the xorg-modules-xpsb .deb from our private repo.
<smagoun> I did try adding Section "DRI" Mode 0666 EndSection to xorg-crownbeach.conf since Intel said that was required at one point, but no uck
<smagoun> s/uck/luck
<amitk> bryce: you probably don't have USB host-to-host cables, so I can't think of a better way that throught the usb key
<bryce> hrm
<bryce> well, let me see if I can get some better debug info on the X lockup first...
<inuka> amitk: did you update the psb kernel drivers for gutsy and hardy or just hardy.
<amitk> inuka: the gutsy ppa does not have the latest drivers, but the main gutsy kernel git repo now has the updated drivers. They will be built during the next security release though.
<inuka> amitk, so if I build an image for gutsy it will grab everything correctly, or do I need to get the source and rebuild?
<davidm> amitk, when is the next security release happening do you know?
<davidm> If its going to be a while should we just dump the drivers into the PPA until the security upgrade?
<bryce> X debugging tips/photos for UME:  http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/node/31
<amitk> davidm: I was planning on working on that as soon as the hardy work is done, tomorrow or possible the day after
<amitk> inuka: you will need to build from the gutsy git tree. If you work with Hardy though, you have packages ready
<davidm> amitk, cool
<GrueMaster> So, can we use MIC to build an image from Hardy yet?
<inuka> amitk, thanks. 
<inuka> bryce, fyi your B0 will need a bios updae if not it will freeze.
<bryce> inuka: why's this?
<bryce> inuka: and at what point will the freeze appear?
<inuka> bryce, if you use todays image-creator it has some taken out some boot options due to a bios fix. 
<inuka> bryce, the freeze will be before x starts.
<inuka> bryce, the freeze you have experianced is not it.
<bryce> ok
<bryce> inuka: is there a page describing the bios update and/or downloadable?
<GrueMaster> A word of caution on this:  Not every system is running with the AMI bios.
<inuka> bryce, I was told that you should be getting the communication with an external link...
<GrueMaster> It may be prudent to have an additional grub menu item.
<inuka> let me check with our PM if I can send you the files directly.
<inuka> amitk, I tried to test using the hardy image created through image-creator, kernel drivers seem to be bad
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-16
<bryce> a couple more comments...  http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/node/31#comment-6
<bryce> I'm suspecting some sort of drm issue
<inuka> bryce, do you now what kerenel image your testing against, I am getting errors pointing to a bad kernel driver
<bryce> 2.6.24-4-lpia
<bryce> built Mon 14 17:33:18
<inuka> bryce, I have the same, but I do not see the behavior you experienced. 
<bryce> tell me what you are seeing?
<inuka> bryce: I see Failed to load module "psb" (module requirement mismatch, 0 )
<GrueMaster> If someone would kindly help me get a Hardy snapshot going, I can start looking at the video driver issues.
<amitk> inuka: can you elaborate the kernel-drivers in hardy being bad?
<inuka> amitk,I am not sure about it yet, I am trying to recompile the psb kernel modules against the ubuntu kernel
<amitk> inuka: the modules are already present in linux-ubuntu-modules. Are you saying they are broken?
<inuka> amitk, I am not sure it definitely it does not work against the packages bryce created. His packages work against the moblin kernel and corresponding kernel driver
<amitk> inuka: we can do a diff between the source in psb-kmd and the one in lum. You can clone LUM from git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-hardy-lum.git
<inuka> amitk thanks.
<GrueMaster> Am I being filtered?  If someone would help me get MIC to generate an Ubuntu-Hardy snapshot, I can start troubleshooting the PSB Video driver issues.
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Yes, I can help you.
<amitk> GrueMaster: what help do you need? do you have MIC installed from the hardy repo?
<amitk> inuka: diff -ur psb-kmd/ ubuntu-hardy-lum/ubuntu/media/drm-poulsbo/
<GrueMaster> I pull a daily MIC snapshot from moblin.org git tree.
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Ah, you'll need to make a change to the menlow base.fset
<GrueMaster> ok
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Moblin has the package called xf86-video-psb, whereas in Ubuntu it's called xserver-xorg-video-psb.
<GrueMaster> I wasn't aware that Ubuntu had changed the name.
<StevenK> We hadn't changed it, it's always been called that in Ubuntu. I thought, anyway.
<GrueMaster> There are multiple packages.  Are you referring to the open source or closed source package?
<StevenK> I'm unsure about that, sorry.
<bryce> Debian calls X drivers "xserver-xorg-*" rather than "xf86-*".  I do not know why.  But we've always followed their lead in the naming.
<GrueMaster> irrelevant to me anyways.  I am working on driver integration testing, so what I have is newer than public.  I just need a working ubuntu snapshot.
<GrueMaster> I can get it renamed I think.  I'll ask.
<GrueMaster> At any rate...
<GrueMaster> What I'm getting is apt-get failures.  First it was the kernel, now it's gnome related.
<GrueMaster> And at this point, I must leave.  It's almost 5pm and I have to be somewhere else at 6pm.
<GrueMaster> bye.
<amitk> inuka: anything?
<inuka> amitk, I am getting compiler errors compiling against 2.6.24 headers....
<amitk> inuka: can you paste those errors into a pastebin
<inuka> 5: error: missing binary operator before token "("
<inuka> In file included from /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:35:
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drm.h:166: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'drm_clip_rect_t'
<inuka> In file included from /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:36:
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:80: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'drm_map_t'
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:118: error: expected ')' before '*' token
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:119: error: expected ')' before '*' token
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:122: error: expected ')' before '*' token
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:123: error: expected ')' before '*' token
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:124: error: expected ')' before '*' token
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:126: error: expected ')' before '*' token
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.h:128: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'i810_ioctls'
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:51: error: 'i810_driver_lastclose' undeclared here (not in a function)
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:52: error: 'i810_driver_preclose' undeclared here (not in a function)
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:53: error: 'i810_driver_device_is_agp' undeclared here (not in a function)
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:54: error: 'i810_driver_reclaim_buffers_locked' undeclared here (not in a function)
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:55: error: 'i810_driver_dma_quiescent' undeclared here (not in a function)
<inuka> /usr/src/psb-kmd/i810_drv.c:58: error: 'i810_ioctls' undeclared here (not in a function)
<mjg59> Sounds like you're trying to build against the wrong DRM
<bryce> hi mjg59
<inuka> mjg59, your right nothing to do with the kernel headers...... let me try and install bryce's drm dev debs
<bryce> inuka: yeah if you don't have that libdrm-dev snapshot installed, that could cause the compilation issues with -psb
<bryce> inuka: however it shouldn't matter for compiling the kernel
<inuka> bryce, I am recompiling the driver against the hardy kernel.... to make sure the kernel driver is correct or if it is something else
<bryce> gotcha
<bryce> in that case I don't think my libdrm2 package is involved
<inuka> I am trying to compile it against the dev package of the libdrm2 you produced
<mjg59> Yes, I don't believe PSB will compile against the in-kernel drm
<inuka> yes it wont, doesnot seem to like the updated one either, I am going to try the one in moblin
<bryce> amitk: dunno if this is important, but looking at the startup log on Mithrandir's image, I see an error:
<bryce> * Setting kernel variables...
<bryce> error: "vm.mmap_min_addr" is an unknown key     [fail]
<StevenK> I don't think it is.
<mjg59> Yeah, don't worry about that
<bryce> mjg59: I've posted my troubleshooting log at http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/node/31, woefully unsuccessful though it is...  do you have any thoughts or tips on further steps I could take?
<bryce> unfortunately I can't get networking going on it, so running gdb against it is difficult
<amitk> bryce: as soon as you modprobe psb, the screen blanks out. Since I tried this an Xterm, Ctrl-Alt-Bksp killed X and gave me a tty console at a weird resolution. Is this what you see too?
<mjg59> amitk: Loading drm modules inside X is likely to result in badness
<bryce> yeah
<bryce> actually I tried it without X running, but saw similar
<mjg59> Some potential for them to beat on registers that X has set
<mjg59> bryce: Mount / -o sync
<mjg59> That way you'll get more xorg.log
<amitk> mjg59: true. I think they do a good job of clobbering the regs :)
<bryce> mjg59: ahh thanks
<mjg59> Does -psb run without drm? Or is drm a dependency?
<mjg59> (I know we're moving to a model where drm is needed)
<bryce> amitk: however before it restarted, I saw three error messages written.  Unfortunately the screen blanked before I could read them
<bryce> mjg59: afaik it's required
<amitk> mjg59: drm is a dep
<amitk> mjg59: this drm is something very close to git HEAD though. The in-kernel one has been turned off on LPIA.
<bryce> amitk: interesting; starting X after doing modprobe psb causes a black screen (not power saving mode)
<amitk> yeah
<bryce> it let me ctrl-alt-backspace too, which it hadn't allowed before
<amitk> bryce: I caught glimpse of that error. It looks very very familiar. I'm gonna try to get a picture here. Something related to MSVDXblah.
<bryce> amitk: since this isn't using /etc/fstab to control mounting, where does / get mounted?
<inuka> I managed to recompile the kerne driver will see if that changes anything.... 
<mjg59> amitk: When building, I suspect there's a chance stuff will still end up trying to link against the kernel headers unless you're careful
<alek_desk> bryce, the root got mounted in initrd
<bryce> fwiw, I see an error, "mount: "Mounting /dev/sda1 on /container failed: No such file or directory"
<bryce> I suppose that's non-fatal though
<amitk> mjg59: I will check that out. We did not have this problem in Gutsy though...
<amitk> bryce: inuka: modprobe psb throws a error about msvdx_fw.bin not present blah foo. Is this being powered by a PowerVR?
<mjg59> PSB is PowerVR MBX
<mjg59> With custom 2D modesetting, I think
<amitk> no wonder it sounded familiar
<inuka> yes, and it shows that error normally
<amitk> inuka: is this related to the 3d driver?
<amitk> the error I mean
<bryce> amitk: not sure
<inuka> amitk, no it does not , it is shown in the log even when things work correctly
<amitk> bryce: mjg59: in any event, modprobe psb shouldn't do what it is doing, correct? So things are pretty messed up before the X psb driver kicks in.
<bryce> yeah it looks bad
<mjg59> Yeah
<mjg59> It's not immediately obvious to me how that could have anything to do with our kernel or drm
<mjg59> It sounds like it's entirely in psb
<bryce> mjg59: unfortunately, adding -o sync doesn't seem to have changed the amount of stuff logged in Xorg.0.log...  It still ends right after the drm bits
<bryce> unless I've done the sync option incorrectly (trying to verify)
<bryce> last line is "(II) [drm] Irq handler installed for IRQ 17."
<mjg59> bryce: There may not be any further output before it hangs, then
 * bryce nods
<bryce> next...  digging in driver source
<amitk> inuka: in psb-kmd/Makefile.kernel, drm_ioc32.o is conditionally included if CONFIG_COMPAT is defined. Does the moblin kernel define it? We don't.
<mjg59> amitk: Is that just the 64-32 bit compatibility layer? If so, it shouldn't be needed on lpia
<amitk> mjg59: that's what it is.
<mjg59> (lpia is 32 bit, right?)
<amitk> correct
<mjg59> Right. Yeah, it should just be needed on 64-bit architectures
<bryce> a bit more progress after spelunking through the X driver...  http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/node/31#comment-11
 * bryce -> dinner.  bbl
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> hiya Daniel
<dholbach> heya Tollef
 * Mithrandir kicks the psb driver
 * Mithrandir wonders what to do in order to make the hardy build work right, graphics-wise.
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: there's no reason for you guys to have a kernel-mid binary package; apt-get source will look for source packages if no binary package matches.
<amitk> Mithrandir: I might have a fix for networking, could you try building the latest commit to the hardy tree.
<amitk> Mithrandir: I am building now, but it takes time
<Mithrandir> amitk: sure, will do.  I got distracted for a minute here
<Mithrandir> meh, almost 20 minutes to build a kernel. :-/
<Mithrandir> I'll try it once I have tested this stuff
<Mithrandir> amitk: loading the moblin.org psb driver seems to initialise the framebuffer
<Mithrandir> as in, I then get a 1280x1024 framebuffer console.
<Mithrandir> amitk: you win!  Thanks.
<Mithrandir> amitk: as in, works, and I can ping something.
<Mithrandir> bryce: would (EE) PSB: Failed to load module "Xpsb" (module does not exist, 0)
<Mithrandir> explain anything?
<amitk> Mithrandir: Are you compiling the moblin kernel driver against our headers?
<Mithrandir> amitk: that was just pulling in their binaries.
<Mithrandir> (if you're referring to the framebuffer thing)
<amitk> Mithrandir: yes. How do you check the framebuffer resolution? We too get a high-res framebuffer console.
<Mithrandir> amitk: it looked native on my 1280x1024 screen. :-)
<Mithrandir> I could be wrong, of course, but it looked right.
<amitk> Mithrandir: ohh ok. :) Have you tried modprobe psb with the Ubuntu module? It too gives a high-res console after blacking out at first
<Mithrandir> will try
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, got it. the kernel-mid is an empty binary package.
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: yeah, I noticed.  Just wanted to tell you since you were listed as the maintainer
<Mithrandir> it's not actively harmful, just useless.
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, thanks. :)
<Mithrandir> amitk: indeed, our psb.ko gives the same result.
<Mithrandir> now I wonder where I can find a module that answers to the name "Xpsb"
<alek_desk> Mithrandir , I know the 1280x1024 issue
<alek_desk> you need build the drivers/acpi/video module
<Mithrandir> as in, what's the problem you're seeing?
<mjg59> ?
<amitk> alek_desk: what is the 'issue'?
<Mithrandir> I have a just fine 1280x1024 framebuffer console.
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, Moblin hildon desktop assume a 1024x768 and 800x600 resolution by default
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: oh, but my display actually is 1280x1024, so it shouldn't blow up, should it?
<alek_desk> psb-kmd will set the screen to 1280x1024 if could not detect LVDS pannel
<mjg59> alek_desk: The ACPI video extension doesn't support resolution setting. How does drivers/acpi/video help?
<mjg59> Oh, I see
<alek_desk> the psb-kmd module will detect /proc/acpi/video
<mjg59> ...
<mjg59> That sounds kind of wrong
<alek_desk> :(
<Mithrandir> it seems to just hang in (II) PSB(0): Locking DRI for screen
<mjg59> Let me take a look at the code for this
<Mithrandir> and I can't attach with gdb
<alek_desk> the video extension has something to do with the LVDS interface
<alek_desk> psb-kmd support both LVDS and SDVO RGB output
<alek_desk> LVDS resolution is 1024x768 while SDVO resolution is 1280x1024 by max
<smagoun> Mithrandir: do you have Intel's libdrm?
<Mithrandir> smagoun: I have what I got from bryce.  I could test with libdrm from moblin.
<smagoun> Mithrandir: also, at one point you had to add the following to xorg.conf: Section "DRI" Mode 0666 EndSection . Not sure it's still necessary, but might be worth a shot?
<alek_desk> amitk, I guess you did not enable CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO?
<amitk> alek_desk: We have it enabled, IIRC.
 * amitk checks
<mjg59> Hm. Where does the psb-kmod code live? I can't find it in the moblin git, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place
<amitk> amit@amit-laptop - (..sources/ubuntu-hardy) $ grep CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO debian/binary-custom.d/lpia/config.lpia
<amitk> CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO=m
<alek_desk> mjg59 http://moblin.org/repos/projects/psb-kmd.git
<smagoun> mjg59: It's in the psb-kmd git tree at moblin
<alek_desk> amitk, ok.
<mjg59> Ah - it's not linked from the browser
<alek_desk> mjg59, yes. it is a secret :)
<amitk> alek_desk: I live for secrets on public IRC channels ;)
<alek_desk> amitk, LOL
<mjg59> alek_desk: http://moblin.org/repos/?p=projects/kernel-mid-2.6.24.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/thermals-ext-acpi_video.dpatch;h=9539cec3a250baaaf1acab3c06e49dd4b4e54dad;hb=26b8b6eadf0651726500360d3e639128512a1e0c - are you sure this patch is named correctly?
<mjg59> The only thermal related bit is the addition of a structure to the backlight class, and there's various other bits in there
<alek_desk> mjg59, we have no chance to test thermal at all -- it needs a special CRB board
<mjg59> alek_desk: Right, but the patch still seems wrong
<alek_desk> mjg59, well. we need to trace it back to 2.6.22 kernel.
<alek_desk> to check if it is a porting error or original error
<mjg59> alek_desk: The get_brightness_levels() code isn't upstream (and really shouldn't be necessary), but it's nothing to do with thermal code so should be in a separate patch
<mjg59> alek_desk: My reading of the psb code is that it'll do the ACPI validation itself - it shouldn't need the video.ko module?
<mjg59> It's executing _DOD natively rather than calling out to a separate module
<alek_desk> mjg59, do you mean get_brightness_levels will never get called ?
<mjg59> alek_desk: No, I mean it's nothing to do with thermal code
<mjg59> The only thing it does is present a sysfs node
<mjg59> Whereas what we should be doing is flattening the list of backlight values that acpi gives us (I've sent a patch to Len to do that)
<alek_desk> CONFIG_ACPI_VIDEO depends on CONFIG_VIDEO_OUTPUT_CONTROL, I guess psb-kmd read /proc/acpi/video to detect LVDS existence is ok.
 * alek_desk is not sure
<mjg59> alek_desk: No, it calls the methods itself. It doesn't use the drivers/acpi/video code at all.
<alek_desk> mjg59, so it only check the /proc/acpi/video node?
<mjg59> alek_desk: No, it calls the methods itself. It doesn't use the drivers/acpi/video code at all.
<alek_desk> mjg59, I saw the code to check if /proc/acpi/video exists.
<mjg59> alek_desk: In psb-kmd? Not that I can see.
<alek_desk> if you insert video.ko before loading psb-kmd, the screen get initialized to 1024x768 by default
<mjg59> If it is doing that, it's doing it wrong
<mjg59> Since the module executes the methods itself
<alek_desk> mjg59, yes. I see the code.
<Mithrandir> amitk: uploading to the ppa now.
<mjg59> alek_desk: See the code in intel_lvds.c 
<mjg59> intel_get_acpi_dod() will get the list of devices and walk them
<alek_desk> mjg59, yes.
<mjg59> That doesn't need the video module
<alek_desk> mjg59, wait.
<alek_desk> mjg59, I may miss the point. But if you could do the test -- insert video module before loading psb-kmd module, you would find the difference.
<mjg59> alek_desk: I don't have PSB hardware at the moment. But if that's the case, there's a bug.
<mjg59> Since psb-kmd never calls anything in the acpi video module
<alek_desk> mjg59, if you run xrandr on them, you will find one report LVDS and RGB, another only report RGB
<mjg59> alek_desk: Then there's a bug in psb-kmd.
<mjg59> How do we reliably ensure that the acpi video module has started before loading psb-kmd?
<mjg59> psb-kmd needs to either declare an explicit dependency on the acpi video driver and then use its functions rather than its own, or it needs to do whatever setup is missing itself
<mjg59> I think the former is the better plan
<alek_desk> mjg59 there is a module parameter ignore_acpi seems could cut the relation.
<mjg59> alek_desk: No, it clearly wants to use the acpi functions
<mjg59> Otherwise we can't tell whether there's an LVDS or not
<alek_desk> mjg59, currently most our CRB boards are not connected with LVDS, but psb-kmd will report they are connected
<alek_desk> most CRB are using SDVO
<mjg59> alek_desk: Right, but it still needs fixing
<alek_desk> mjg59, agree.
<mjg59> I'll look at this next week
<bryce> Mithrandir, I believe the Xpsb error is a red herring - http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/node/31#comment-5
<Mithrandir> bryce: yeah, seems to be.
<Mithrandir> it's still stuck in acquiring the DRI lock, though
<bryce> hrm.  Do you have a new img I could mess with today?  (I'm still having trouble getting image-creator to build imgs)
<Mithrandir> grab the one from the same location as yesterday (http://err.no/tmp/menlow_full_install-usb.img)
<Mithrandir> it's much bigger since it includes both the kernels from moblin, but no other moblin components.
<bryce> ok cool
<bryce> hmm, each of the 3 kernels in the image fail squashfs, leaving me at an initramfs prompt
<bryce> c3a693eb53d710e7cf23ee0fc6654d33  menlow_full_install-usb-mithrandir3.img
<Mithrandir> bryce: md5sum matches
<Mithrandir> robr: you going to be on the call?  It seems the call info we have from Peter isn't working.
<rustyl> Mithrandir, we are having problems with the room and number we scheduled
<rustyl> Mithrandir, seems it was setup for UK time
<Mithrandir> ah.
<Mithrandir> that would have been pleasant. :-)
<rustyl> getting a new number right now
<Mithrandir> excellent, just keep us posted.
<lool> rustyl: Yes
<lool> rustyl: Operator confirmed this
<robr> calamity of errors 
<rustyl> Bridge: 5, Passcode: 3211606
<rustyl> Mithrandir, lool ... if you call the original number but use the above bridge and passcode, then you are good
<lool> rustyl: I tried saying hi a couple of times, but nobody seems to hear me; I tried *6 and #6 to unmute, doesn't seem to work for me
<lool> rustyl: Could you confirm how to unmute please?
<rustyl> ok
<rustyl> just  a sec
<lool> It happened last time to me as well, couldn't talk for the whole call
<Mithrandir> I'm in now.
<lool> Thanks *6 didn't work the first time
<lool> But now I did hear "Unmuted"
<mdz_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<mawhalen> mdz - can you resend the link
<mdz_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<mdz_> patm: are you back on the call now?
<patm> we are on yes
<patm> I grabbed Steve to listen as well
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Hi Bob. I was discussing with Ted about messing abit with the applets. The idea is to mak an alerm clock running in the home applet. Do you see any problem with that? Should I bother someone else? :)
<bspencer_> tell me more
<bspencer_> alarm clock simple application... or a "settings" control panel applet?
<bspencer_> and who is Ted? :)
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Ooops, I meant Todd
<bspencer_> I see.   
<agoliveira> bspencer_: The idea is to have an alarm clock just being called from the applet like you click on the time and it shows the clock or something like that.
<bspencer_> alarm clock is interesting because if you put it in "Settings" it isn't a perfect fit. 
<bspencer_> in any case though it is a good idea
<bspencer_> (wherever we put it)
<agoliveira> bspencer_: The clock would run on the home applet thus being allt he time available if the user wants it.
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Is there any docs you know that can help me (running something in the home appler I mean)
<bspencer_> the rub is that currently the home screen HTML is a fill-area home applet
<bspencer_> so unless home applets can overlap you won't be able to have both
<bspencer_> but you could resize the HTML stuff... that woudl work
<bspencer_> you'd probably have bugs related to background
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Hmmm... what's rendering the html?
<bspencer_> a mozembed home applet
<bspencer_> where the applet size is 100% width and 100 height of home area
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I see. Looks like my idea will be a bit more complex to implement that I thought.
<bspencer_> sorry :(
<bspencer_> but it may be possible to overlap applets
<bspencer_> I haven't tried that, have you?
<bspencer_> if that is the case then there is no problem
<agoliveira> bspencer_: No, I didn't. I'll check this out tomorrow.
<bspencer_> I have an N800 here now
<bspencer_> it lets me edit the home screen layout (I just did this)
<bspencer_> but when I say "Apply" it says:  "Some of the applets are overlapping.  Try closing or moving them"
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Same with the 770
<bspencer_> this may be an arbitrary restriction though, not part of the underlying home applet capabilities
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Well, thanks a lot. I'll give it some thought tomorrow.
<bspencer_> yep.
<amitk> bspencer_: the new OS for N800 does not have the Edit and Apply modes. All the applets are freely draggable
<bspencer_> amitk: interesting.  Can they overlap?
 * amitk drags
<amitk> bspencer_: yes. and the underlying applet shows through due to the transparency
<bspencer_> ah, good to hear.  agoliveira ^^
<lool> Pretty cool heh
<bspencer_> we might be in luck then as we're using the latest hildon stuff (hopefully)
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Ah, cool. It will give me more food to the thought (and make David nuts as will take longer :) ) but it's certanly something to look at.
 * agoliveira -> coffee
<amitk> Mithrandir: got a few minutes?
<Mithrandir> sure
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-17
<bspencer> if I want to get the source for cheese, how do I do that?
<bspencer> what is the /etc/apt/sources.list value?
<amitk> bspencer: add a new line with deb-src instead of deb. everything else remains the same
<bspencer> deb-src http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports gutsy main restricted universe multiverse
<bspencer> ?
<amitk> should be good
<bspencer> or maybe deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu ...   I'll try that
<amitk> TeTeT: hey Torsten
<TeTeT> amitk: Hi Amit, staying up late?
<amitk> TeTeT: 3rd night in a row now
<TeTeT> amitk: ouch, deadline approaching? 
<amitk> TeTeT: how are you doing?
<TeTeT> amitk: doing fine, currently in Taiwan, visiting partners
<amitk> TeTeT: yeah.... trying to get graphics drivers on UME to behave with our kernel
<TeTeT> amitk: I've read about poulsbo on the mailing list
<amitk> TeTeT: good for you! You aren't going to be in London next week, are you?
<TeTeT> amitk: no, I'm not coming for the sprint. Would I be needed there?
<amitk> TeTeT: not really, just wondering if there is a coincidence
<amitk> TeTeT: moving back to Germany soon?
<TeTeT> amitk: I need to re-think my move back, relationship troubles
<amitk> TeTeT: sorry about that
<dholbach> good morning
<alek_desk> amitk, there is a meeting today, right?
<amitk> alek_desk: yes there is
<alek_desk> amitk, thanks.
<Mithrandir> hm
 * Mithrandir ponders how exactly to change ubuntu-meta for just mobile.  I guess we can use the -mobile branch and point our PPA package to that.
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: ^^; it seems like update.cfg points to p.u.c/~cjwatson/seeds; that's just a seed mirror, right?
<Mithrandir> so I should be able to point it to LP?
 * Hobbsee thought that was a redirect
<cjwatson> Mithrandir: update uses --bzr by default, so we use the [hardy/bzr] section for that not [hardy]
<cjwatson> so in fact we use bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/
<Mithrandir> ahkay.
<cjwatson> if you need to change it for just mobile, I think I'd recommend a different source package
<Mithrandir> why?  It'll be in a PPA.
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: ^
<Mithrandir> (sorry if you're busy, just thinking you might be paying less attention to this channel than others. :-)
<cjwatson> oh, PPA, sure
<cjwatson> I don't care then :)
<Mithrandir> ok, good.  I'd be insane to do this in the main archive, agreed. :-)
<cjwatson> and indeed, I only really follow this channel when highlighted
<lool> Mithrandir: Is NM (daemon) running though?
<Mithrandir> lool: yes
 * Mithrandir blames dbus
<lool> Mithrandir: Does restarting dbus help?
<Mithrandir> no, that breaks things further; hald doesn't want to restart and it goes downhill from there
<lool> Ah got the hal issue too
<Mithrandir> rebooting fixed that, though
<Mithrandir> and stevenk's fix broke my hostname. :-/
<lool> Not easy to fix when you can't sudo  :-/
<Mithrandir> boot with break=bottom works, though
 * Mithrandir is lazy and just reinstalls
<Mithrandir> *whine*; now I don't get any applets any more.
<Mithrandir> ah, unwhine.  It was just old packages.
<Mithrandir> nm-applet works now that I twiddled the config slightly.
<Mithrandir> it seems like it doesn't think we're on the console
<asac> Mithrandir: hmm ... that would explain the issue amitk complained about the other day
<Mithrandir> yup
<asac> Mithrandir: do you have /bin/check-foreground-console ?
<Mithrandir> yes
<asac> and does it succeed?
<Mithrandir> njet
<Mithrandir> good $time_of_day everybody.
<Mithrandir> davidm,lool,amitk,agoliveira: around for the meeting?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yep
<amitk> yup
<alek_desk> hello
<Mithrandir> hiya alek
<alek_desk> hoya:) Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is Mithrandir.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<agoliveira> Coup d'Ãtat? :)
<Mithrandir> rustyl: is Mauri around and planning to attend?
<Mithrandir> nah, davidm asked me to drive today.
<Mithrandir> and since I've only had tea to drink, I think I'm fit.
<davidm> agoliveira, yep what he said
<Mithrandir> well, tea and water.
<agoliveira> You guys are boring :)
<rustyl> i'm online, doing multiple things... so slow response
<ToddBrandt> here
<Mithrandir> hiya Don_Johnson
<Don_Johnson> I'm here too.
<Mithrandir> and hiya ToddBrandt, Bob
<bspencer> hi
<davidm> OK for the first open action we have ChickenCutlass here so we can go
<Mithrandir> sure
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC] Michael Frey to test the ext3 image boot speed before weeks end.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Michael Frey to test the ext3 image boot speed before weeks end. 
<Mithrandir> ChickenCutlass: how did that go?
<ChickenCutlass> Tried it -- no faster
<davidm> Interesting, would have expected some speedup.
<ChickenCutlass> same performance as shashfs
<ChickenCutlass> squashfs
<ChickenCutlass> takes up lots more space however :)
<Mithrandir> naturally.
<mdz> ChickenCutlass: is the startup process still CPU limited according to bootchart?
<Mithrandir> do you have bootcharts to compare the two?
<ChickenCutlass> no -- I do not yet have bootcharts -- I did the stopwatch approach
<agoliveira> ChickenCutlass: That's odd. There should be any improvment exactly due the CPU limitation I saw in the charts.
<davidm> ChickenCutlass, can you run bootchart on the ext3 boot so we can see exactly what is happening?
<ChickenCutlass> I will build some charts so we can see
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: your IO load goes up, though.
<mdz> agoliveira: there's no particular reason to believe that squashfs is what's on the CPU, that was just a guess
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Exactly, maybe it freed the CPU but saturated the I/O
<smagoun> agoliveira: one theory was that squashfs required CPU, so load would go down when switching ti ext3.
<lool> agoliveira: You have the URL to your bootchart available easily?
<agoliveira> lool: No, sorry. I sent an email with them and deleted I guess.
<Mithrandir> [ACTION] ChickenCutlass to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ChickenCutlass to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 
<Mithrandir> any other input on that topic, or move on?
<davidm> agoliveira, where did you send the email I'll find it
<mdz> move on
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC] bspencer to checked to see if get tags tagging has occurred when making a release.
<MootBot> New Topic:  bspencer to checked to see if get tags tagging has occurred when making a release. 
<davidm> move on
<lool> http://diemicrosoftdie.com/gutsy-20071210-1.png 404
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://diemicrosoftdie.com/gutsy-20071210-1.png 404 
<mdz> get tags tagging?
<Mithrandir> could somebody please explain that sentence?  It seems to lack some words or a spell check or something. :-)
<agoliveira> davidm: Right after the tests. I'll check later.
<bspencer> we talked about it 
<lool> The action item was presumably to check whether tags are actually happening for new releases
<Mithrandir> lool: presumably, yes.
<agoliveira> Ah... sorry, I sent an email with the links. I'll check the backups and try to put it up again.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: have you checked?  and if so, what was the result?
<bspencer> and plan to do this 
<bspencer> sorry...distracted
<bspencer> yes, we have spotty coverage to date
<bspencer> but will tag these things as discussed previously
<bspencer> ok, 100% focused here now
<Mithrandir> I'll give you an action item to report back on whether it has improved over the next week
<bspencer> we want to tag the releases of each project when they are released
<Mithrandir> ok?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: sounds find
<bspencer> e
<Mithrandir> [ACTION] bspencer to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case. 
<Mithrandir> hiya Mauri
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC] bryce and amitk to provide verbose emails to bspencer about issues surronding Tungsten. (complete)
<MootBot> New Topic:  bryce and amitk to provide verbose emails to bspencer about issues surronding Tungsten. (complete) 
<Mithrandir> this has happened, I believe.
<amitk> yes
<bspencer> I received many emails on the subject
<mawhalen> Mithrandir: hi
<Mithrandir> however, we are still stuck with a broken -psb driver on Hardy.
<Mithrandir> amitk: can you give us a bit more information on your findings?
<amitk> Basically, while the psb X driver tries to acquire a DRI lock, it freezes
<Mithrandir> are there anybody we could set up a conference call with, at intel, who could help us debug this problem?
<agoliveira> davidm: http://diemicrosoftdie.com/charts.html
<bspencer> rob__: robr_ubuntu robr2  -- you on the call?
<amitk> the problem is in the kernel PSB driver according to current findings
<mawhalen> Mithrandir: Let me check with Rob Rhoads to see how much work he did with our 2.6.24 kernel.  
<Mithrandir> I see the same problem with the moblin 2.6.24 kernel, fwiw
<mawhalen> Mithrandir: some folks in our group are in another meeting right now
<mjg59> I've some concerns about the interaction between the -psb driver and ACPI, but I believe this is a separate issue
<mawhalen> is Don on?
<mjg59> I'm looking at improving the in-kernel ACPI video support to the point where -psb can just use that
<amitk> I have tried to use the moblin kernel configs on our kernel to see if there is a configuration issue, but the issue still remains
<mawhalen> Don_Johnson: ping
<Mithrandir> amitk: not really surprising given that the moblin kernels are broken too, at least for me.
<mawhalen> inuka_desk: ping
<mdz> mawhalen: should we reschedule?
<Don_Johnson> I'm here, just catching up
<mawhalen> Mithrandir: Inuka on our team is now responsible for the gfx integration.  I'll start inviting him to this meeting.
<Mithrandir> mawhalen: which time zone is he in?
<Mithrandir> (Inuka is a he?)
<mawhalen> Don_Johnson: We might want to setup a meeting with Waldo, Rob and Amit.  Not sure if Waldo is still working on gfx.  
<mawhalen> Mithrandir: Inuka is a he, he is here in Oregon.
<mdz> mawhalen: that's helpful for the future, though we would like to get this particular issue resolved sooner.  who can we talk to who has more familiarity with this driver?
<amitk> currently I am digging into interaction of the X driver and the kernel driver. Someone at Intel who is familiar with these drivers would speed up the debugging a lot.
<Don_Johnson> mawhalen: I'll check with Waldo to see if we can set some thing up.
<Mithrandir> ideally, today.
<pat_mcgowan> Don_Johnson, any chance Tobin could help out
<Don_Johnson> pat_mcgowan: Tobin isn't familiar with the internal workings of the graphics drivers.
<alek_desk> Mithrandir, but Moblin kernel 2.6.24 has a workable psb-kmd module
<Mithrandir> alek_desk: doesn't work for me with hardy.
<alek_desk> hmm...
<Mithrandir> (verified two days ago)
<lool> Could be a race triggerred by libdrm / xorg but only from hardy?
<Mithrandir> I haven't pried deeply into it, but it seems to get to the same point as the ubuntu kernel.
<bspencer> mdz: mawhalen and I will have to follow up to get someone who can help quickly.
<Mithrandir> if you guys have something that works for you, it might be interesting to see what happens if we put our latest kernel in there and try.
<smagoun> maybe a dumb question, does the hardy libdrm include intel's patches?
<Mithrandir> smagoun: this is with the libdrm I got from bryce which supposedly contains all the necessary patches.
<Mithrandir> I have not verified that, as I am not familiar with the code.
<Mithrandir> should we take this after the meeting?  It seems we're not making more progress here.
<davidm> Earlier in the week bryce said he had applied all of the intel changes
<davidm> Yes, lets take it off line
<mdz> is bryce not here?
<Mithrandir> bryce: are you around?
<bspencer> from our side let's grab waldo and rob for the discussion.  Inuka can come and listen too.
<mawhalen> Mithrandir: right, we don't have the correct people here
<mawhalen> I can synch with Rob as soon as he is off his meeting
<Mithrandir> ok, good
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC] mawhalen Don_Johnson davidm to meet off line on schedule issues (complete)
<MootBot> New Topic:  mawhalen Don_Johnson davidm to meet off line on schedule issues (complete) 
<Mithrandir> this is complete and done and nothing needs to be reported here?
<Mithrandir> if so, the agenda is empty.
<Don_Johnson> Yes, I believe it is done, and nothing needs to be reported here.
<Mithrandir> anybody have anything more that needs discussion?
<Mithrandir> going once, going twice.
<davidm> Don_Johnson, your later call specific to the customer issues, correct?
<Don_Johnson> Yes, we will be talking customer specific issues
<davidm> OK, thanks
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks everybody.  Adjourned.
<Mithrandir> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:29.
<Mithrandir> that was nice and short.
<agoliveira> Best... meeting... ever... :)
<amitk> mawhalen: when can we know about who in Intel to talk to about the graphics drivers?
<Mithrandir> mawhalen: when is rob's meeting done?
<mawhalen> Not sure when Rob is done, I'll have him get ahold of amitk as soon as I find out.
<Mithrandir> great.
<amitk> thanks mawhalen
<GrueMaster> So, what's the key to getting a Hardy build in MIC?
<Mithrandir> GrueMaster: changing the default sources.list entries is at least one way
<GrueMaster> Ok.  Little background.  I have a cron that runs daily to pull MIC from git, then generate a daily Moblin-gutsy build.  It has the fsets for ubuntu-hardy as well.  What do I need to change (and why isn't it in MIC).
<bspencer> > GrueMaster said:  d why isn't it in MIC
<bspencer> good question.  If we're missing something useful send the maintainer a note or a patch
<Mithrandir> I believe the plan is to provide multiple platforms which default to different distroreleases
<lool> ATM, Ubuntu's MIC pulls only from Ubuntu while upstream's MIC pulls from Ubuntu + moblin.org's APT repos
<GrueMaster> yes, and?
<GrueMaster> so?
<GrueMaster> Actually, it ignores moblin.org if you select the ubuntu fsets only.
<lool> The fsets differ slightly in MIC upstream and in Ubuntu
<GrueMaster> I understand.  Let's fix it so people using MIC can actually use MIC.
<Mithrandir> robr: just the guy we're looking for.  Can you talk to Amit about our current headaches on the kernel DRI bits?
<lool> GrueMaster: I would be happy to work on taking all our fixes upstream
<lool> GrueMaster: Would you like us to discuss the delta and address it now?
<cwong1> Mithrandir:  I have an issue with flashplugin-nonfree and need to discuss with you. I was going to bring it up in the meeting but was chatting with Asac. 
<Mithrandir> cwong1: please shoot.
<amitk> robr: hi
<robr> amitk: hi
<cwong1> Mithrandir: the current flashplugin-nonfree package has a bad checksum that caused the installation to failed.
<GrueMaster> I just need to be able to get a working Hardy build so I can start addressing some of the build issues others are seeing in PSB
<Mithrandir> cwong1: hm, that's something we should fix
<lool> GrueMaster: The easiest way would be to upgrade your hardy installation and use hardy's MIC
<amitk> robr: have you followed the thread on ubuntu-mobile ML? Subject: Backtrace
<cwong1> Mithrandir: Asac has uploaded a fix a while back but have to rolled back. The reason is that the new flashplugin only work with Firefox/IE and will crash konque and opera.
<GrueMaster> No, that would break my other development systems
<robr> amitk: not yet, but i will try to catch up
<cwong1> Mithrandir: Can asac upload the fix again? But this mean opera and konqer user will not be able to use the flashplugin.
<Mithrandir> cwong1: uh, ok.  It seems better to be able to install it on some, but not all systems, than on none?
<GrueMaster> I don't have enough platforms to dedicate to everyone's individual changes that don't get sync'd mainstream.
<cwong1> Mithrandir: I agree.  I will let asac know then.
<Mithrandir> cwong1: worst case, we can put it in the ppa
<cwong1> Mithrandir: ok. thanks.
<amitk> inuka: robr: Mithrandir: davidm: Can you all join #psb-hardy to continue this discussion?
<amitk> bryce: GrueMaster: you too if interested ^^^
<asac> Mithrandir: will upload flashplugin to mobile ppa ... how does the versioning scheme look like?
<Mithrandir> asac: append ~710um1 or ~804um1 
<Mithrandir> (depending on gutsy or hardy)
<asac> Mithrandir: ok thanks
<asac> Mithrandir: when do you expect to go back to hardy?
<Mithrandir> are you uploading this to the gutsy ppa or the hardy ppa or both?
<lool> GrueMaster: I was told that perhaps what you wanted is to create a project / config in git MIC to pull from Ubuntu hardy + ppa; is that what you would like us to work on?
<asac> just <= gutsy is affected
<asac> so just gutsy ppa
<Mithrandir> asac: ok, thanks.  We're looking at moving to hardy, but gfx is currently busticated.
<GrueMaster> What I need is either a saved project that someone else has generated, or the ability to generate a working (sans video driver) hardy image in MIC.  I also need to keep MIC pointing at moblin.org for moblin snapshot builds, plus gutsy snapshots for other people I support.
<GrueMaster> My current priority is to work on Beta 6 drivers for integration testing.
<asac> Mithrandir: is there any policy on what can be pushed to that ppa? or just "everything thats needed" ? e.g. could we upload latest xulrunner-1.9 and could we use system-cairo for reducing memory footprint (would require new libcairo)
<Mithrandir> asac: all the stuff that's needed, yes.  Please make sure you don't break builds though
<Mithrandir> mjg59: do you know how I can convince pam_foreground our mobile session actually is in the foreground?  My attempts at using openvt didn't really help.
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Oh, I guess you never log in through pam...
<Mithrandir> mjg59: I do su - ume -c ...
<mjg59> Hm. Not off-hand. It's been a while since I touched that.
<Mithrandir> 'k
<Mithrandir> StevenK: you broke ume-config-crown-beach when you called gconftool in the postinst without making sure gconf2 is installed first..
<StevenK> Oh, gah.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Shall I'll fix the both of them (samsung-q1-ultra-config would be too) after the meeting?
<StevenK> s/I'll/I/
<Mithrandir> please
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-18
<dholbach> good morning
<Mithrandir> amitk: were your networking fix uploaded anywhere?
<Mithrandir> s/were/was/
<amitk> Mithrandir: you mean the ethernet fix? yes, it is in the Hardy kernel tree now.
<Mithrandir> hm, ok.  I'll get the linux source in the hardy PPA removed then.
<Mithrandir> I wonder why my networking was broken last night.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Technically, my week is over, but do you need me to do anything?
<Mithrandir> StevenK: I think we're good for now, unless you _want_ to work after your hours.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Meh, 30 minutes or so is fine
<amitk> Mithrandir: you might want to wait until a new kernel is uploaded though
<Mithrandir> amitk: oh, why?
<amitk> Mithrandir: to have a kernel with the fix available for use? or were you only planning to remove the _source_ and keep the .deb available?
<Mithrandir> amitk: oh, it's in the the .git tree, but not the uploaded kernel?  Ack.
<Mithrandir> we'd need to reupload a new version since hardy has 4.7 now.
<Mithrandir> amitk: do you want to upload to the PPA or should I?
<amitk> Mithrandir: Hardy will have a -5.8 now. It is an ABI bump and will require LUM, LRM to be rebuilt too. Since compiling and testing all archs takes a lot of time, I suggest going with a -4.7 + the networking patch for UME PPA. What do you think?
<Mithrandir> amitk: sounds like a plan to me.
<Mithrandir> amitk: can you get that uploaded or should I do it?
<amitk> Mithrandir: I'll prepared the tree and ask you to sign and upload it
<Mithrandir> amitk: you're a member of the ubuntu-mobile group, so you should be able to just upload to the PPA yourself?
<Mithrandir> lool: why is hildon-desktop - 1:0.0.43-1ubuntu1~um804+1 in the ppa?  Shouldn't it be in hardy and removed from the PPA?
<amitk> Mithrandir: aah yes, I had forgotten that we were uploading it the PPA. Sure I'll do it
<Mithrandir> amitk: cheers
<Mithrandir> StevenK: have you had any further luck with tinymail and modest lately?
<lool> Mithrandir: It's always the same hildon-desktop which was only uploaded to init the hardy PPA
<lool> Mithrandir: It wont be pulled I think
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I need to update libtinymail to 0.0.7
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Modest looks good, we just need to fix the strings and icons, and it's done
<StevenK> Given David's glowing report about modest, I think we want it instead of claws
<lool> Mithrandir: Can one remove stuff from PPAs nowadays?
<Mithrandir> lool: apparently, I can.
<lool> Mithrandir: I checked again, and don't see the option
<lool> Mithrandir: Interesting; where is this?
<Mithrandir> you're not lp_archive on drescher, last time I checked. :-P
<lool> Ah; it was a planned LP feature, but still not implemented then
<Mithrandir> StevenK: yay, cool.  Any idea when?
<lool> Mithrandir: You can remove it if you like; there are other real things in the ppa, but I wouldn't bother
<lool> Mithrandir: Simply because ATM, we are likely to have many things older than hardy, and this will regularly happen
<Mithrandir> lool: ideally, I'd like us to not have any items in the hardy bit of the PPA.
<lool> It will be useful to do such a cleanup when hardy freezes
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Well, do you want me to look at libtinymail/modest instead of chat?
<lool> Mithrandir: I would like to do with the exception that I still want to be able to list it in sources.list
<Mithrandir> StevenK: if you don't mind, yes, please.
<lool> Mithrandir: Also, it's very likely that we will use it when hardy freezes and post hardy release
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I need to chat to you about chat anyway
<Mithrandir> lool: of course, but having it close to empty means answering "what still needs to go into hardy" is a lot easier than if it has too much crap in it.
<lool> s/to do/too
<Mithrandir> StevenK: oh, chat as in moblin-chat.  Shoot.
<lool> Mithrandir: Sure; when I uploaded h-d it was the only and very first hardy module in it :)
<StevenK> Mithrandir: As in Pigdin on Maemo
<lool> Mithrandir: Now there are other stuff notably icedtea
<lool> libdrm, linux, linux-meta, moblin-applets, oo.o, osso-af-settings
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I've tried to get a sensible diff between Pidgin and Pigdin on Maemo. It's 766K
<lool> Mithrandir: I would appreciate if you could remove osso-af-settings though; the same source is in hardy now; I uploaded to get a build asap and because I can't upload to main
<Mithrandir> lool: sure, np.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: have you talked to Adilson about the patch?  Or the MID team?
<Mithrandir> lool: willdo.
<StevenK> Not yet
<Mithrandir> lool: icedtea is gutsy, not hardy, iirc?
<Mithrandir> there, hildon-desktop, osso-af-settings gone
<lool> Mithrandir: Indeed, my mistake on icedtea
<Mithrandir> no worries.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: ~750k diff just sounds too large, so I'd start by talking to them to see what they have.  Afaik, they have something smaller.
<Mithrandir> who is taking responsibility for getting Adilson's moblin-applets package into hardy?  Or has that already happened?
<StevenK> Oh, damn. That was me.
<StevenK> Sorry, it slipped off of my plate.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: I'll check it over and upload it soonish
<Mithrandir> cheers.
<AtomicPunk>  /nick ToddBrandt
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-13
<Celtiore> hi
<Celtiore> please, where can i find blueman deb for ubuntu 7.10 lpia ?
<persia> blueman?
<Celtiore> yes : http://blueman.tuxfamily.org/
<persia> That's kinda cool.  Doesn't look like it's even in jaunty though.  Probably needs packaging.  I'm not sure it would backport cleanly back to 7.10 though.
<persia> (integration with NM 0.7, etc.)
<Celtiore> :)
<persia> crevette, You tend to look at bluetooth stuff a lot: do you know any background about blueman?
<crevette> persia, no at all
<crevette> I tend to update the package I use :)
<crevette> It worths to be tested
<persia> http://blueman.tuxfamily.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=40:version-06&layout=blog&Itemid=71&layout=default looks pretty.
<crevette> yep
<persia> But I don't think it would fit on a MID well: seems to have a lot of MDI design behind it.
<jroes> is there a separate channel for the netbook remix team?
<persia> jroes, There's no channel for the netbook remix team.  As elements of netbook remix are brought into Ubuntu, it is expected that this will be the right channel.  In anticipation of that, some of the netbook remix team are present.
<jroes> ah, ok
<jroes> well, I'm a halfway-decent developer and the netbook remix project piqued my interest, so I was thinking about buying a netbook, and I wanted to see what brand,model I should pick up that would allow me to help make ubuntu's netbook support broader, would anyone around here happen to know?
<persia> jroes, Speaking generally, I'd suggest getting something that you like, that has the features you want.  Unless you're excited about fixing kernel drivers, you'd do better with something with well supported components.
<persia> Most of the work needing doing is really at the usability layer, as part of defining what makes sense on that class of device, rather than on getting a given component to work.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-14
<slim_> hello all
<SwordfishXang> Hi
<DNis1> hi, are ubuntu-mid and umpc compatible with wubi ?
<DNis1> or will be ?
<DNis1> and if "will be", any idea of date ? :)
<persia> DNis1, Not currently, and no specific schedule for implementation planned.  If you can get it working, I'm sure it would be applied.
<DNis1> i'm working on it
<ogra> though note that -umpc isnt built anymore 
<DNis1> but i need to convert the image to iso first
<ogra> (in jaunty)
<DNis1> ogra: only mid is built ?
<persia> DNis1, That was one of the reasons it's not enabled.
<ogra> -umpc was turned into ubuntu-netbook-remix
<ogra> not sure we successfuly build images yet though
<DNis1> ogra: ok
 * ogra didnt look today
<fta> persia, fyi: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/fennec/1.0~a2-0ubuntu1
<fta> (or https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fennec/1.0~a2-0ubuntu1)
<asac> ogra: ^^ ;)
<asac> lool: ^^ 
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-15
<lool> asac: I sax the new fennec package; thanks for pointing it out!  I need to try it out now
<lool> thanks fta too
<asac> lool: file bugs ;)
<ogra> asac, we will :)
 * ogra hugs fta in absence for packaging it
<StevenK> There's a fennec package?
<ogra> since yesterday
<ogra> i mean, there is one since wuite some time ... but it entered universe yesterday
<StevenK> I see that
<ogra> i tried it on the n810 before and wasnt very thriled yet
<ogra> *thrilled
<StevenK> Oooh, it's tiny
<ogra> while its faster its still lacking a lot in speed and handling compared to the maemo browser 
<ogra> but if oyu tried the first fennec package you notice the improvements
<persia> Agenda up for Team Meeting in 34 minutes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090115 : please add anything you'd like discussed.
<ogra> ugh, i still havent finished the touchscreen spec (though started to work on the code :/ ) damned paperwork
<persia> It's all about paperwork!
<ogra> its all about code !
<ogra> paperwork just documents it :)
<persia> I suppose.  I rather like the waterfall approach to software: it helps get the solution right for the largest number of people the first time.
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<alanbell> hello everyone, I am working on an OEM install for an Atom based netbook, is there any documentation on why I should use lpia vs i386?
<ogra> i think there is some info at moblin.org
<alanbell> right now i386 seems to be a smoother experience for us in terms of installation and support from people like Skype and IBM (who don't know how to package stuff properly)
<Vantrax> alanbell, I dont think the i386 has the same powersaving flags in the kernel
<persia> The kernels are different: it's worth comparing the trees to see what you need.
<alanbell> Vantrax: so battery life might be better with lpia. Anyone got a quantitative comparison? (I will probably do my own and publish the results)
<ogra> right, there are some extra powermanagement switches in lpia, but the main issue is that i386 is compiled for m586 while lpia is 686 ... that will give you the most significant difference from a kernel POV
<persia> Except it's not.
<ogra> ??
<persia> The lpia kernel has CONFIG_M586 set.
<ogra> oh, it didnt when i looked last time 
<ogra> which is quite a while ago i admit
<persia> Well it did a couple days ago :)
<ogra> why was that dropped ? 
<ogra> afaik that makes a significant difference on ATOM and lpia wont run on non ATOM
<persia> Actually, it will, now.
<ogra> oh ? 
<Vantrax> cool
<Vantrax> persia ftw
<persia> Anyway, I don't know anything about why: I only read the config trying to sort out which kernel to install.
 * ogra should read the UDS spec 
 * Vantrax should too
<ogra> guessing there is one :)
<persia> Vantrax, Except it's not necessarily good that the lpia kernel works on everything, because it means fewer optimisations.
<ogra> yeah
<Vantrax> thats true
<Vantrax> I thought the idea was to make it super efficient for atoms, and everything else was irrelevant
<alanbell> I see quite a few things that are not available for lpia and lots of scary looking advice about dpkg --force-architecture to get i386 debs installed
<Vantrax> and i guess another for the ARM processors
<ogra> in that light you should probably go for i386
<persia> alanbell, yeah, that's not ideal, but nothing really to do about that.
<persia> Vantrax, Actually, there are about 4 kernels already in the archive for arm, and probably 2-3 more expected (e.g. OMAP, pax2xx, etc.)
<ogra> even if you lose 20min battery life through it (which i doubt) if you *need* something like skype thats the cleanest you can do
<Vantrax> thats good to hear, Im guessing thats the next big expansion area
<persia> There was a UDS session in the Mobile track about lpia vs. i386 where we basically determined that lpia was essentially experimental, to look at optimisations, and understand future direction.
<alanbell> ogra: trouble is from the OEM point of view it means that if we put lpia on we are going to get customers who can't install skype and can't figure out why
<alanbell> and flash and symphony and Lotu Notes etc.
<ogra> right, thats what i mean
<Vantrax> ... no offence but symphony should never be used, and lotus notes, even the 8.5 linux client is crap
<ogra> ogra> in that light you should probably go for i386
<ogra> <ogra> even if you lose 20min battery life through it (which i doubt) if you *need* something like skype thats the cleanest you can do
<ogra> is wht i was saying :)
<Vantrax> best way i've found to do lotus notes is 6.5.3 in wine
<alanbell> Vantrax: yes, I know that but I am a Notes developer(trying to quit) and I don't need the flak from my friends at IBM :-)
<alanbell> any thoughts on this script http://www.matt-helps.com/convert-deb-package-architecture-from-i386-to-lpia
<alanbell> I am thinking if lpia could automagically on the fly repackage i386 stuff it would be a bit smoother
<Vantrax> alanbell, I pity you... its one of the largest gripes with most IT support groups, especially on linux.
<Vantrax> the 8.5 beta for linux is incredibly slow, and the 8.0.1 gave java errors all over the place
 * ogra lols about alanbell " I am a Notes developer(trying to quit)"
<Vantrax> lol
 * ogra is a smoker (not trying to quit) :)
<Vantrax> It seems that domino is losing ground to exchange too...
 * Vantrax thinks linux needs an answer to AD/NDS and Domino/Exchange
<alanbell> Domino is still the fastest app dev environment for a specific class of applications
<alanbell> I never saw it as an email system
<alanbell> just a document database that is good at moving documents between databases
<Vantrax> most people do... tho were I work we run a large amount of other functions through domino too
<alanbell> email is a trivial app to write using that framework
<Vantrax> yet they cant get it right >.<
<alanbell> no, because you can write a better email app if you start out trying to write one.
<alanbell> I remember ages ago asking IBM to just stop with the email thing and call it a collaboration application platform
<alanbell> but anyhow, enough of talking about non-free software :-)
<alanbell> I think I am going to have to do some i386 vs lpia benchmarks to figure out if we are going to gain anything much with lpia
<alanbell> one big problem is that the desktop CD for lpia simply doesn't install. It fails to find an installable kernel.
<alanbell> there are a load of instructions on how to nurse it though on the Aspire One
<alanbell> but that is a nasty to give to customers.
<Vantrax> whats the customer base?
<alanbell> Vantrax: netbook, like the Aspire. Previously aimed at bulk consumer market
<alanbell> this model will be a linux build as an online sale
<alanbell> somewhat sophisticated customers (selecting Linux as a positive choice)
<alanbell> probably 2nd computer
<alanbell> also possibly corporate deals and education
<Vantrax> then id stick with i386
<alanbell> I think I am heading that way. I just need answers when people say "you are using Atom, but you didn't use the right build for the chip - you idiot!"
<alanbell> especially when they see the Mini9 has lpia
<Vantrax> ive found the default 8.10 install rather good on my mini 9
<Vantrax> better battery life than windows
<alanbell> in fact, this is me with my first problem with lpia on mini 9
<alanbell> http://www.dominux.co.uk/index.php/2009/01/09/notes-85-on-intel-atom-lpia-architecture/
<alanbell> in my trying to quit life :-)
<persia> alanbell, You may find your script easier with dpkg -e and dpkg -x
<persia> alanbell, You may also find sed -i useful.  Lastly note that blindly changing may work today, but it's not guaranteed to work as the architectures diverge.
<alanbell> persia: thanks
<alanbell> I kind of think that dpkg should be more sophisticated about architecture relationships
<persia> Well, architectures aren't supposed to be that similar :)
<alanbell> sort of knowing that you can install i386 on lpia but you can't install lpia on i386
<persia> More than anything, it's that even the techs at Intel are still figuring out what to change to optimise for power, rather than optimising for performance.  I expect it will be another year or two before we get distinct enough that it's not convertible.
<persia> Well, actually, with today's packages, you can install lpia on i386.
<alanbell> there are plenty of similar architectures if you look hard enough
<alanbell> there are a lot of Chinese MIPSel chips that implement the bits of MIPS that are out of copyright
<alanbell> so they end up as MIPS but without the maths co-processor
<alanbell> I expect the various ARM flavours are like that as it is a licensed core design
<alanbell> is there any documentation of the UDS discussions about this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lpia-versus-i386
<persia> alanbell, Well, actually, all the Ubuntu-supported ARM processors use the same userspace, which is "armel".
<persia> If the wiki spec isn't written yet, you can watch the video.
<persia> I think it is 00002.ogv from http://videos.ubuntu.com/uds/jaunty/Mobile/2008-12-09/afternoon/
<persia> Mind you, these aren't very excellent videos, and it's live discussion, so lots of "umm..." and the like.
<alanbell> persia: perfect, thanks.
<alanbell> persia: yes, all the ARM are the same build today, I was just thinking that someone could do an ARM with some special optimisations available.
<alanbell> but I know very little about processsor design
<persia> Well, maybe.  Personally, I'm not convinced that it's worth having a separate architecture for optimisations.
<persia> architecture differences imply instruction set differences.  As I understand things, Intel is expecting this to happen with lpia.
<persia> lpia-versus-i386 starts about 28:37 in 00002.ogv
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-16
<davidm> Ok will do
<Haggis-MID> just trying out Ubuntu Ibe
<Haggis-MID> MID image 
<Haggis-MID> with a custom kernel for Acer Aspire One
<Haggis-MID> how do i change system text size , it is huge , 1cm tall
<Haggis-MID> http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img using this image 
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-17
 * Haggis-MID is away to bed
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-18
<jorjoso> hiii
<famicom> what up
<persia> hey famicom 
<famicom> sup
<famicom> I havent used ubuntu for a while, but i've got this paperweight^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h EEEPc
<famicom> and and i need something that plays nice with the lack of screen realestate
<persia> Which model?  Or rather, what resolution?
<famicom> 800 x 480
<Celtiore> hi
<persia> famicom, For that resolution, I'd suggest MID or something custom.
<Celtiore> aigo mid p8860 working now with correct wifi and touchscreen drivers
<persia> Celtiore, Cool!  Which release.
<Celtiore> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mobile/releases/8.04.1/mid-8.04.1-menlow-install-usb.img
<Celtiore> but i have one error with apt-get upgrade on a deb file
<persia> What error?
<Celtiore> i do a reinstallation and giv you infos
<Celtiore> don't remember, please wait 15 mins and i give you the infos :p
<famicom> persia whats MID
<famicom> last time i used it
<famicom> it was a steaming pile of gay
<famicom> are there even any installers for it
<persia> famicom, There are.  For intrepid, the installer works.  For hardy, it's a bit messy.  For jaunty, it's broken.  The apps are still the same.
<persia> If you don't like it, you probably want something custom.
<famicom> i dunno
<famicom> picking my own backported packages is pretty custom to me
<Celtiore> persia:
<Celtiore> error about xserver-xorg-video-psb 0.15.0-0ubuntu1~804um2
<Celtiore> trying to overwrite /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libexa.so, which is also in packager xserver-xorg-core
<persia> Hrm.  I don't know anything about that package.  I'd recommend filing a bug at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+filebug with the output of the install attempt.
<persia> Note that for intrepid or jaunty, bugs should be filed against ubuntu, rather than ubuntu-mobile, but for 8.04, ubuntu-mobile is a better place.
<persia> From what I understand, the psb drivers are closed, so it needs that team to look at it.
<Celtiore> ok thanks you
<persia> Sorry I don't have a better answer for that one.
<Meiz_n810> hello everyone :)
<Meiz_n810> i can't get kourou to work..
<NCommander> StevenK, ^
<orangeswarm> hey, can i install this on a tytnII?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-18
<lawrencekang> hello , can I run ubuntu on s3c6410?
<lawrencekang> hello
<lawrencekang> who has run unbuntu on s3c6410 ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-19
<anirudh> can nayone tell me a phone that runs linux? (and sells in india)... the n900 hasnt released and is a bit expensive for me
<JamieBennett> anirudh: any Android based phone
<anirudh> like? im not aware of any in india... 
<anirudh> kthxbai
<JamieBennett> Not sure about your local market but there are many android phones out there including lots by HTC. You'd have to search your local shopping sites or google to find a specific one.
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-20
<persia> rbelem: Good evening.  Do you want to look at liquid stuff tonight?
<rbelem> hi persia :-)
<rbelem> persia, yep :-) 
<persia> What time works best for you?
<rbelem> persia, i'm finishing plasma-mobile copyright
<rbelem> persia, this time if fine for me
<persia> OK.  Let me know whenever you're at the next step, and we'll finish plasma-mobile, and start looking at k*-mobile
<rbelem> cool! :-)
<rbelem> persia, i have two script files in plasma-mobile without license, but with two lines code. should i ignore it?
<persia> pastebin them?  Two lines of code are usually able to be considered insufficiently significant for copyright, unless they do something really nifty.
<persia> (like the 1-line perl implementation of a cryptography algorithm)
<rbelem> persia,  it is just a gettext command
<rbelem> http://paste.ubuntu.com/359324/
<persia> rbelem: Yeah.  I don't think that's significant enough to carry copyright: we may as well submit it.
<persia> The archive admins may disagree though, in which case we need to pester upstream.
<rbelem> cool!
<rbelem> persia, is packagecheck available in ubuntu?
<persia> Not to my knowledge.  What would it do?
<asac> there is licensecheck and lintian ...
<persia> The surprising bit is that even search engines aren't helping identify "packagecheck".
<rbelem> persia, http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html
<persia> Odd.  Should be there.  Anyway, are you patching the sources?  I didn't think we'd gotten there yet.
<rbelem> persia, plasma-mobile needs some changes to make it buildable
<persia> Ah.  You already added "--with quilt" to your dh call?
<rbelem> yep
<persia> Cool.  I usually just copy /usr/share/doc/quilt/README.source into my packages, but I'll hunt for packagecheck
<persia> rbelem: Whilst you're changing stuff, you might want to build-dep on pkg-kde-tools and include /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/makefiles/1/debhelper/kde.mk in your debian/rules (this handles the cmake stuff)
<rbelem> persia, nice! :-D
<rbelem> i did not know that :-)
<persia> I had thought you were still chasing copyright, or I would have given you that and quilt sooner :)
<rbelem> eheheh
<rbelem> persia, i think i finished
<rbelem> i will paste it to you
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/359346/
<persia> rbelem: "Maintainer" in debian/copyright  should be the upstream maintainer.  As you don't appear elsewhere in the file, I doubt that's you.
<rbelem> persia, i got this warning http://paste.ubuntu.com/359349/
<persia> Obviously my rarely-used KDE packaging skills are out of date :)
<rbelem> i thought it was related to package maintainer
<rbelem> ehehehe
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Nope, that would be in debian/control
<persia> You can omit the first Copyright: paragraph, or if you don't omit it, you need to procede it with a Files: specifier.
<persia> You must include a License: entry in each Files: paragraph
<persia> rbelem: See #kubuntu-devel : we need to change debian/rules to use --with kde and drop the include.
<rbelem> :-D
<rbelem> persia, i think i'm missing something
<rbelem> persia, it is not building now
<persia> Using --with kde and dropping the include?
<persia> What fails?
<rbelem> persia, i will paste
<persia> rbelem: About that error?
<rbelem> oops...
<rbelem> forgot :-)
<rbelem> eheheh
<persia> Thought you might.  Simultaneous multi-channel conversations can be tricky :)
<rbelem> eheheh
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/359353/
<persia> rbelem: I think you need to build-depend on kdelibs5-dev to get KDE4Macros.cmake to define kde4_add_plugin
<rbelem> persia, it is already
<persia> Strange.  Can you put your .diff.gz somewhere?  I'll take a deeper look.
<rbelem> yep
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/359360/
<rbelem> persia, any ideas? 
<persia> rbelem: Still build-testing
<rbelem> persia, did you get the build working?
<persia> rbelem: No, but I've managed to replicate the error :)
<rbelem> persia, :-)
<rbelem> persia, it seems that it is not applying the patch
<persia> My build log agrees with that: "No patches in series"
<rbelem> persia, is the patch there in .pc?
<persia> .pc oughtn't matter, but .pc isn't in your patch
<persia> Strange thing being that if I run `quilt push -a` manually, it reports that it applies.
<persia> I'm still digging: I'll let you know as soon as I have something.
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/359372/
<rbelem> persia, it is how CMakeList.txt should look like
<persia> I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/359374/
<persia> Maybe refresh the patch?
<rbelem> persia, already refresh
<persia> (`quilt push -a; $editor CMakeList.txt; quilt refresh; quilt pop -a`)
<persia> And that makes it build?
<rbelem> nope
<persia> heh.  OK.  I'll update my copy of the patch and keep investigating.
<rbelem> only builds when i run cmake by hand
<persia> Right, which doesn't help us as much as we'd like.
<rbelem> persia, i think i'm going to sleep in some minutes
<persia> Fair enough.  It's getting late.  I'll troubleshoot, and see if I can get the build to complete.
<persia> I'll email you my diff.gz later, and we can touch base tomorrow evening.
<rbelem> persia, cool!
<persia> Have a good night.
<rbelem> persia, have a good day :-D
<rbelem> bye
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-22
<colt> Does anyone know of any attempts to build mobile devices where the battery and brains are separated from the screen, worn on the body (say in a fanny-back or wasteband, and then the screen and keyboard is held in hand and connected, either by a thin wire, or wirelessly? 
<switchgirl> anyone know where to look for how to sync Alcatel OT-708 with ubuntu?
<persia> switchgirl: despite the name of the channel, this isn't so much about using Ubuntu with other mobile devices.
<persia> But in general, I find the various sync tools in Ubuntu fairly weak.
<switchgirl> i agree
<persia> Your best bet is to try them all, and hope at least one kinda works.
<switchgirl> thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-23
<asac_> StevenK: help. can you poke firefox through binary NEW if you are awake?
<asac_> its just a source rename of the source we already had
<asac_> from firefox-3.5 to firefox ... because we start shipping withtout versions again
<asac_> thanks!
<asac_> zillions of users will love you :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-24
<persia> rbelem: Hey.  Haven't heard from you in a few days.  How is it going with the liquid stuff?
<rbelem> hi persia 
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> rbelem: Hey.  So, how's plasma-mobile?
<rbelem> persia, i'm finishing your todo list :-)
<rbelem> persia, these days i could not work overnight :-(
<rbelem> persia, now finding the right build-deps
<rbelem> persia, now it is 03:41 :-D
<rbelem> AM
<rbelem> here
<persia> Go to bed.  Grab me during the day sometime.
<rbelem> ehehehe
<rbelem> persia, i'm not sleepy now
<persia> OK, if you'd rather do it now than in the morning :)
 * persia is a morning person, so would generally prefer to go to bed and do it tomorrow
<rbelem> persia, ok, 11:00 UTC is good for you
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Sure, if that's when you're up.
<persia> I just want to try to get all three packages in before the meeting on Tuesday.
<rbelem> persia, plasma-mobile is almost done, so we can finish at least kdm tomorrow
<persia> rbelem: Sounds good.  Any ideas about kwin?  Do we need to do something like in plasma-netbook?
<rbelem> persia, do not know very well yet
<persia> OK.
<rbelem> persia, maybe we should ask in kwin channel about "kwin for mobile", "What is missing to be done", "virtual keyboard"
<rbelem> opengl-es
 * persia grumbles about OpenGL-ES
<rbelem> ehhehehe
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> As long as we only use the subset of GL in OpenGL-ES, we ought be safe cross-platform.
<persia> Ideally, drivers that provided OpenGL-ES would have fall-back to mesa for unsupported calls.
<persia> That way what can be accelerated is accelerated, and what can't be is still supported (if slowly).
<persia> But, really, someone other than I is the right person to do that :)
<rbelem> :-D
<persia> For the keyboard, would klavier work, or do we need something else?
<persia> I don't know anything about KWin: asking somewhere else might be a good idea.
<rbelem> persia, i think we can get some idea from the matchbox
<persia> On the keyboard, you could also try kvkbd, but I think klavier is a cooler name for a package, and so would probably try that first (on the unreliable basis that niftily-named software is better)
<persia> Well, I'd rather use the KDE solution if possible.  The way matchbox-keyboard works is very messy.
<persia> (plus I still haven't merged the latest version from Debian)
<rbelem> persia, hum...
<rbelem> persia, how matchbox keyboard works?
<persia> rbelem: it uses XEMBED to fit itself inside some other environment, and do the right thing.
<persia> This gets messy if you want to handle use cases where people are switching focus a lot, etc.
<rbelem> persia, there is a plasmoid called plasmaboard
<persia> Hooking into either the accessibility toolkits or the input-method toolkits (for CJKV support), tends to be a more pleasing user experience for multi-application environemnts, because the user doesn't have to be concerned about which app has the keyboard embedded.
<rbelem> persia, cool!
<rbelem> persia, that's a very nice alternative i think
<persia> Using the keyboard plasmoid sounds like a really good ieda, except "KEYBOARD DOES NOT WORK" is the top of the list of current known issues :)
<persia> We may have some work to do.
<rbelem> ehehhe :-)
<rbelem> that's nice :-)
<persia> rbelem: a11y or IME are the standard way DE software keyboards work.  The XEMBED stuff only happens in the embedded world.  So if we pick stuff from the desktop world (that runs fast enough on a handheld), we'll have more flexible solutions.
<persia> (simply because for desktops, there is stricter separation between window-manager, session-manager, and application)
<rbelem> persia, i have some gadgets to test this
<persia> rbelem: Actually, it looks like KDE 4.3.95 just hit, so there's a decent chance that the keyboard plasmoid works in lucid.
<persia> Excellent.  None of my gadgets can run lucid currently.
<rbelem> persia, if you need one, i can send it to you
<rbelem> persia, i have one n810 extra
<persia> Does the n810 run lucid?
<persia> I didn't think there were kernels.
<rbelem> persia, i have one kernel ready for it ;-)
<persia> Well then.  Tell me how to make one :)
<rbelem> persia, cool! i was working with a co-worker to get it running
<rbelem> persia, i think these days he will publish the howto in his blog
<persia> That'd be great!  I know there's always calls for more testing on armel, but right now there's not many users (but there are lots of n810s floating around).
<rbelem> persia, and with 3d working :-)
<persia> Really!  With a proper X driver and everything?
<rbelem> persia, texas released the driver
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Excellent!  Now I have a non-virtual target for liquid :)
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> persia, finished the search for build-deps
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> persia, i will sleep a little bit more :-)
<rbelem> persia, 07am i will wake up
<persia> OK.  I might still be around when you get up (depending on how late you sleep).
<persia> That's not long at all :)  I'll be around then.
<rbelem> cool!
<rbelem> persia, you will stay up until what time?
<persia> Usually around 15 UTC, but sometimes later, depending.
<persia> If we're making good progress, I'll stay up late.
<rbelem> cool :-D
<rbelem> see you in two hours
<persia> Sleep well: I won't mind if it's three :)
<rbelem> ehee
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> thanks persia 
<rbelem> persia, uh! i slept a little bit more what i planned
<persia> That just means you're more well-rested and ready do hack :)
<rbelem> persia, yep ;-)
<rbelem> persia, i will finish the debian/control descriptions
<persia> OK.  So last we talked, you were looking at debian/copyright, right?
<persia> Ah, right, descriptions.  Aside from the KWin bits, those might not be completely wrong :)
<rbelem> ehehe
<rbelem> persia, i will get something to eat
<persia> Heh.  OK.
<asac> ah .. a sunday liquid sprint ;)
<persia> Yep.
<rbelem> persia, i'm ready!
<persia> OK.  You've made the editorial changes to control and fixed copyright?
<rbelem> yep
<rbelem> hi asac 
<persia> OK.  Did you build and test the package?
<rbelem> yep
<asac> hi rbelem 
<rbelem> using pbuilder
<persia> Then I think we're probably done with plasma-mobile.  Push to review, and I'll double-check
<persia> (and maybe we can get asac to review and upload, since he's around)
<persia> s/review/REVU/
<rbelem> cool!
<persia> So, next up: kdm-mobile
<persia> My memory is that we were going to branch the kdm source, and apply special patches.  Is that correct?
<rbelem> persia, yep
<persia> OK.  You've downloaded the kdm source, and you have the patch?
<rbelem> persia, we need to patch the build system to build outside kdebase
<rbelem> persia, hum... not yet :-(
<persia> OK.  That's first :)
<persia> Once we have sources, we can trim out the package.
<persia> I have a feeling we're going to discover some issues with the headers and libraries provided by kdebase, and so need to file some bugs, but lets give it a try first :)
<rbelem> persia, will we use the get-orig-source?
 * persia is still downloading the kdebase-workspace source, and will want to see what is done there to have an opinion
<rbelem> persia, i already git svn the kde trunk :-)
<persia> Do you want to work from trunk or from the kdm in Ubuntu?  I'd rather work from the kdm in Ubuntu in hopes of defining some semi-automated process to stay in sync.
<rbelem> persia, it took weeks to finish
<persia> Oh my.  It's 80MB for kdebase-workspace Ubuntu source.  How long will that take you?
<rbelem> persia, cool! kdm from ubuntu is better
<rbelem> persia, i already downloaded
<persia> OK.  It might be some work, but I hope we can write a script that converts the kdebase-workspace source into our special kdm-mobile source.
<persia> That way we can easily update after each kdebase-workspace upload.
<rbelem> persia, kdebase uses bzr
<rbelem> persia, so what is in bzr is what is in the package?
<persia> Upstream or lp:ubuntu/kdebase-workspace ?
<rbelem> persia, let's use lp
<persia> I meant to ask "when you say "what is in bzr", do you mean some upstream bzr or lp:ubuntu/kdebase-workspace?"
<persia> lp:ubuntu/kdebase-workspace is just the same as the package contents, except in bzr.  It gets a fresh commit for each upload.
<persia> Since we're only grabbing the package to massively hack it and extract the tasty bits, I don't think bzr will help us.
<rbelem> hum...
<persia> There may be some lp:kdebase-workspace which is a vcs-import of upstream svn (I haven't checked).  If so, I'd prefer not to use it for the same reason that I wanted to use the Ubuntu package initially.
<persia> Seems this contains KWin also.  Shall we do a single kdebase-mobile that contains both kdm and kwin?
<rbelem> persia, i think is better use separated sources
<persia> Why?
<rbelem> persia, so we can patch the build system and try to get it upstream 
<persia> You think upstream would be interested in splitting these out?
<rbelem> yep, they are moving to git
<persia> Ah, so they will want to be separated sources anyway?
<rbelem> ;-)
<persia> So while we're working on kdm-mobile and kwin-mobile now, we might expect that in the future there would be a kdm source package that generated both kdm and kdm-mobile?
<rbelem> persia, that's it :-)
<rbelem> persia, after that we can help upstream to split all kdebase :-)
<persia> OK.  I still think we want to go with the extract-the-source-with-a-script-from-kdebase-workspace approach for now, just because of the caution of the kubuntu folk for LTS, but we can certainly structure things so that transition to a separated package is easier in the future.
<persia> Is this an upstream goal already?
<rbelem> yep
<rbelem> i will paste the link for you
<persia> Well, hrm.  That does sound tempting.
<rbelem> eheheh
<persia> Do you already have some ideas for patching the build system, or are we starting from scratch?
<rbelem> persia, it should be almost the same for plasma-mobile
<persia> OK.  Easy enough then.
<persia> Copyright should be easier this time, because we can use kdebase-workspace debian/copyright as a reference.
<rbelem> persia, http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/MovetoGit
<persia> "Main modules such as kdelibs and kdebase will each become one repository." - are you sure that splitting is going to be accepted?
<rbelem> persia, i talked to a kde developer and he said yes
<persia> OK.  I'll trust you on that :)
<rbelem> persia, i will confirm this on #kde-git
<persia> No need to do so now.  Let's do the packaging, and look at that later.
<persia> Are you pushing plasma-mobile to REVU?
<rbelem> persia, not yet
<rbelem> i will push right now
<rbelem> persia, i have to create another gpg key
<persia> What's wrong with the one you have?
<asac> what ETA is  that review?
<rbelem> persia, my gpg that is in ubuntu keyring is outdated
<asac> i will be travelling for a few hours soon
<rbelem> s/outdated/expired
<persia> asac: Soonish, or later, at your convenience.  I just won't upload without a second.
<asac> kk
<persia> rbelem: Do you still know the passphrase?
<rbelem> yep
<asac> persia: i cn do it in abuot 3-4 hours
<asac> just post the REVU url to me i will pick it up
<persia> asac: Cool.  Thanks a lot.
<persia> rbelem: Do you still trust the integrity of the expired key?  Is the secret key still secret?
<rbelem> persia, yep
<persia> Well then, just edit the key and extend the expiration date.
<rbelem> cool!
<persia> I do this once a year, but leave it set to expire so that it dies when I can't make it work anymore.
<persia> Once you've extended the key, you need to push it to the keyservers again, etc.
<asac> keep the revocation cert and set to infinite ;)
<asac> i usually use subkeys for the real signing and throw them away regularly
<persia> asac: I can't guarantee that I can retain the integrity of both my secret key and my revocation certificate for eternity.
<persia> For instance, I could be hit by a bus, and no longer able to either revoke my key or enter my passphrase.
<persia> But I tend to perhaps be overly careful :)
<asac> you should tell your lawyer to do that ;)
<asac> last wish: please revoke my key :-P
<persia> Amusing, but morbid.
<persia> Back to packaging!
<asac> yesss
<rbelem> persia, ehehe
<rbelem> persia, some of the e-mails, that is in the gpg key, i do not use anymore
<rbelem> persia, you think this is a problem?
<persia> I believe in removing any identities from a key if those identities are no longer controlled by the key holder.
<persia> But I know other people who have lots of leftover identities on their key.
<rbelem> persia, and the key strength is only 1024
<rbelem> persia, i created it in 2004 before debconf4 :-)
<persia> Ah.  Yes, you might want to create a new key :)
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> persia, so after create a new key it will be not signed by anyone
<rbelem> persia, may i mail to already signed my current key and ask to sign the new one?
<persia> You may, but they may not sign it.
<persia> REVU doesn't require a WoT though.
<persia> So your work is not blocked for today, but you'll want to get to a keysigning when you can.
<rbelem> persia, cool!
<persia> I've just tossed together a quick wrapper package around the kdm sources from the kdebase-workspace source in lucid, and will see how badly it doesn't build :)
<persia> copyright is still 0-byte, and I've not patched yet.
<rbelem> ok! :-)
<rbelem> persia, i will create a 8192 bit key
<persia> Should last a little while, although not terribly long :)
<rbelem> eehehe
<persia> rbelem: http://paste.ubuntu.com/361980/
<rbelem> persia, unknown CMake command "install_pam_service"...
<persia> rbelem: There's a FindPAM.cmake in kdebase-workspace/cmake/modules
<persia> I just don't know anything about cmake, so am relying on you to tell me what to do :)
<persia> My debian/ is 0-byte copyright, minimal control building kdm-mobile binary, mostly copied from kdebase-workspace, except adding Conflicts/Replaces kdm, echo 7 > compat, and rules.tiny + --with kde
<persia> Oh, and a stub changelog entry.
<rbelem> persia, :-)
<rbelem> persia, i think just need to copy the cmake dir to kdm
<persia> The entire cmake dir?
<rbelem> persia, just what is needed
<persia> So, CMakelists.txt and FindPAM to start?
<rbelem> persia, and add to main CMakeList.txt add_subdirectory(cmake)
<persia> Or do you think I need more of them?
<rbelem> for now just findpam
<rbelem> i think
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> persia, i'm compiling things with -j8 in home :-)
<rbelem> persia, i setup yesterday a faster wireless network :-)
<rbelem> persia, and installed icecc on each machine
<persia> Heh.  That goes fast, but I wonder about how well it matches the distro builders :)
<rbelem> persia, all machines run ubuntu karmic here, just mine runs lucid
<rbelem> persia, and icecc takes care of packaging the toolchain and send to others machines
<rbelem> afaik
<rbelem> :-D
<persia> Ah, toolchain packaging.  Now I know why you need such a system :)
<persia> There's very little I end up compiling that won't compile within half an hour, even on my little 512MB box that thrashes when compiling bunches of things.
<persia> But I do need to do something about my configuration.  Having a local mirror would speed stuff up, since sometimes downloading build-depends takes a bit, and I do want to figure out a nice way to not have my build chroots be encrypted.
<persia> (but that involves a full reinstall, which I never seem to have time to do)
<rbelem> ehehehe
<rbelem> persia, i started to write a little script to create mirrors
<persia> Anyway, the build-deps are redownloading.
<persia> There are a bunch of good mirror scripts.
<rbelem> but based on germinate output
<persia> I just usually relied on my bandwidth to ignore them, but today I've been running as many as 7 simultaneous builds, and so found it a bit restrictive.
<persia> Ooh.  You might want to get in touch with cjwatson if you make progress on that.  The ArchiveReorganisation effort will need those, and he'll know with whom to speak about it.
<rbelem> i'm using apt-cacher as a simple mirror
<rbelem> persia, i already talked to him and he commited some changes, but not this script yep
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation/Components has some of the specs about how it might work.
<rbelem> s/yep/yet
<persia> Cool!
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> after this script jigdo is dead :-)
<persia> Really?
<rbelem> yep
<persia> But doesn't jigdo also do the image creation?
<rbelem> my goal is to download only what is need and then build the image
<rbelem> so, it will make easier the life of the people that what to create a new ubuntu flavor
<persia> I guess.  I usually try to do stuff with live images myself.
<persia> Once one creates the meta, and tunes a system with deborphan, it ought be easy to recreate this with a livefs build.
<persia> And if one has a good flavour, and is supporting it, getting it built on the livefs builders doesn't seem especially hard.
<rbelem> i did not used livefs yet :-(
<persia> Oh.  I find it easier for creating install CDs.
<persia> And if one isn't doing an install, only the meta matters :)
<persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/362004/
<persia> And that's *with* the FindPAM in cmake/modules
<rbelem> persia, can you send the debdiff to me :)?
<persia> debdiff against what?
<persia> I'll send you the tar.gz of the (currently native) package :)
<rbelem> persia, cool! :-)
<persia> rclbelem@ , right?
<rbelem> persia, yep
<rbelem> gmail.com
<persia> On the way.
<rbelem> persia, gnupg finished the generation of my 8192bit key :-)
<persia> Once we get copyright sorted, we can use bzr, which might be easier to collaborate with :)
<persia> Cool.  Let me know when you stick it on REVU, and I'll take a look.
<rbelem> downloading the tar.gz
<persia> It's just a quick hack: don't expect much from it :)
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> persia, found the install_pam_service
<persia> Cool.
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/362026/
<persia> So we just need to copy in more stuff from kdebase-workspace?
<rbelem> persia, yep
<persia> Excellent.  So it builds now?
<rbelem> persia, not yer
<rbelem> s/yer/yet
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> heh.
<rbelem> persia, works!
<persia> Cool!
<persia> Does the produced binary work?
<rbelem> persia, hum... got an error
<rbelem> :-(
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/362034/
 * persia digs
<persia> I'm confused.  Shouldn't that be set in kdm/ConfigureChecks.cmake ?
<persia> specifically, with set(KDM_LIBEXEC_STRIP 0)
<rbelem> persia, yep
<rbelem> i will paste the cmakelist.txt
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/362038/
<persia> rbelem: I wonder if we need something in KDE4Defaults or some such.
<persia> Perhaps we don't have strong enough build-deps?
<rbelem> persia, that's true
<rbelem> persia, let's apt-get build-dep kdm
<rbelem> just to get i building
<rbelem> s/i/it
<persia> All of it!
<persia> I was trying to trim build-deps :)
<persia> But yeah, just copy the build-deps line from kdebase-workspace if you want it all.
<rbelem> after that we trim it
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> OK.
<rbelem> persia, found the solution
<rbelem> persia, need to copy more files
<persia> heh.
<rbelem> persia, it got a problem :-(
<rbelem> persia, did not find bgrender.h in any package
<rbelem> :-(
<persia> Should be in kdm-mobile/kdm/background/bgrender.h
<rbelem> persia, it is in kcontrol subdir
<persia> Ah, oops!
<rbelem> persia, kdebase-workspace-4.3.95/kcontrol/kdm/background/bgdefaults.h
<rbelem> persia, it should be in kcontrol-dev package
<rbelem> persia, but it does not exist
<persia> rbelem: Well, we've two choices.  We can try to fix kontrol-dev (and wait), or we can copy the file for now.
<persia> I think we should copy the file for now, and fix kontrol-dev later.
<rbelem> persia, ok let's do this
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/362065/
<rbelem> persia, we need the libraries
<persia> Can we get them with an install of kontrol-dev ?
<rbelem> persia, yep
<persia> So let's add that to build-depends :)
<rbelem> persia, but kcontrol-dev does not exists
<persia> heh.  I wondered why I couldn't find it :)
<persia> So, we can create kcontrol-dev, or we can copy more stuff.
<rbelem> ehehehe
<rbelem> persia, we should add the kcontrol-dev to the kdebase-workspace debian/control
<persia> rbelem: Well, we'd have to coordinate with all sorts of people for that.
<rbelem> persia, :-)
<rbelem> persia, what time is it in your timezone?
<persia> But yeah, that makes sense.  It just means that we'll need to prepare a patch to expose libkcontrol and libkcontrol-dev, and then wait for acceptance.
<persia> Since there was just a big KDE upload today, I think it may be a bit.
<rbelem> cool! :-)
<persia> 11 hours later than yours :)
<persia> But don't worry about it.  Getting stuff done is more interesting than diurnalism.
<rbelem> persia, 12am?
<rbelem> eheheh
<persia> Oh, I thought it was later there.  13 hours later than your timezone :)
<rbelem> mine is -0400
<persia> Ah, mine is +0900, so yeah, 13.
<persia> Somehow I thought you were in -0300, and beause it was summer, maybe -0200.
<rbelem> persia, in the other half of the brazil it is -0200 because of the summer
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Aha!
<persia> You're out west?
<rbelem> yep
<rbelem> persia, i live in the heart of the amazon rain forest :-)
<persia> I hope that it's in a clearing :)
<rbelem> ehehehe
<rbelem> mark already came to my city
<rbelem> together with martin pool and kiko
<rbelem> we organized a very nice tour for then
<rbelem> them
<rbelem> *
<persia> Cool
<rbelem> persia, i will build kdebase to get the output files to create the libkcontrol.install and libkcontrol-dev.install
<persia> OK.
<persia> rbelem: Whilst that's building, how about uploading plasma-mobile to REVU?
<persia> (or aren't the keyservers synced yet?)
<rbelem> persia, ops... forgot
<persia> heh.
<rbelem> persia, i will do the upload now
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Cool.  We ought be able to get it uploaded today then.
<rbelem> persia, i will get a lunch
<rbelem> persia, it is better for you get some sleep, hum?
<rbelem> persia, i will ping you in my evening
<persia> OK.  Talk with you then.
<rbelem> persia, sleep well :-)
<asac_> rbelem: how are things going?
<rbelem> hi asac 
<asac> sorry... reconnect
<asac> well irssi restart ;)
<rbelem> eheheh
<asac> did you write anything?
<rbelem> asac, i think plasma-mobile package is ready
<asac> i saw something blinking right when i closed the client
<asac> is it in REVU?
<rbelem> asac, but i'm having problems to setup my gpg key
<asac> url?
<asac> problem?
<rbelem> asac, i tried to create a 8192bit key
<rbelem> :-D
<rbelem> asac, but the subkeys can just use 4096
<asac> is that a problem?
<rbelem> asac, i will upload with my old key
<asac> if the old key is good
<asac> just do that
<rbelem> asac, ok
<rbelem> :-)
