#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-29
* ogra_ltsp puts a big pot of coffe on the meeting table
<JaneW> hi
<ogra_ltsp> hi
<jamey> hi
<JaneW> ***Reminder*** Edubuntu Dev Update Meeting starting now
<ogra_ltsp> i'd like to point out that my DSL drops from time to time...
<JaneW> jelkner was going to be joiniung us...
<ogra_ltsp> so i might have to reconnect during the meeting...
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: ok
<ogra_ltsp> so lets wait some minutes
<JaneW> ok 3 mins
<JaneW> hi jelkner 
<JaneW> we were waiting for you
<JaneW> hello flint
<flint> hi Jane...
<JaneW> are we all here now?
<flint> No.
<jelkner> hi JaneW, i'm not late, am i?
<flint> I mean metaphorically
<JaneW> flint: are you ever? ;)
<flint> ...excellent point
<JaneW> jelkner: no not really (3 mins)
<flint> :^)
<JaneW> ok ogra_ltsp hit it
<jelkner> sorry, it won't happen again!
<JaneW> give us lots of good news ...
<ogra_ltsp> shall i ? 
<jelkner> well, paul is talking to you from and edubuntu workstation
<flint> Jane elkner has me running from a "zimermaned" ubuntu LTSP server for this meeting!
<flint> I feel so secure!
<ogra_ltsp> i have one good and one bad news about edubuntu-desktop :)
<ogra_ltsp> what do you want first ? 
<jamey> the bad
<ogra_ltsp> nvu wont be included
<jamey> :O
<jamey> the good?
<ogra_ltsp> its refused by the security team
<flint> Elkner was whinning about the art.   We thought that was the bad news...
<JaneW> nvu?
<ogra_ltsp> the good is, we are done.... the last package just got approved ;)
<jamey> http://www.nvu.com/
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: yay
<jamey> it's a Dreamweaver-like application
<ogra_ltsp> so from tomorrow on i dont need to do any work on this package anymore and it will be installable
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: to be clear mediawiki is now IN right?
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: i have a question, what are we doing about light-weight desktop?
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, i'd like to hear mdz and sabdfl about the security issues
<ogra_ltsp> ^^^mediawiki
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 24 Aug 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, i have a SoC student... i'll create a package for universe these days
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, he prepared a applist..
<JaneW> jelkner: lightweightdesktop is a Google SoC bounty project
<jelkner> excellent
<jelkner> icewm or xfce?
<ogra_ltsp> it wont make it to main for breezy though...
<ogra_ltsp> icewm
<jelkner> great!
<JaneW> jelkner: so by definition not high priority or likely to land in Breexy
<JaneW> Breezy
<ogra_ltsp> we have another team working on a xfce metapackage, but that wont enter breezy it seems
<jelkner> yes, but i'm going to want to run in my lab, so i would like to be involved in the testing process
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: will you follow up with mdz and sabdfl later?
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, yup
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: ok thanks
<ogra_ltsp> so that about the -desktop package
<JaneW> jelkner: out your name on the spec page as interested for testing
<JaneW> put sorry
<flint> oh i like out... it is so metro.
<jelkner> or, if you all think it would be more helpful, i could start the year using gnome and report problems as the occure
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: so what impact does nvu not being in have? Do we need something esle or are we ok without it?
<ogra_ltsp> the server package is awaiting one review and a bit of tweakage for the moodle package, i'm confident we'll have it done this week
<jelkner> and then make the switch when the problems are clearly identified
<ogra_ltsp> oh, yes, nvu
<jamey> how stable is the server package once installed?
<ogra_ltsp> we have two options for a web editor in main
<flint> if elkner were testing a model airplane he would fly it from here to Paris.
<ogra_ltsp> jamey, i'm working with it currently (as my nick might suggest)
<jamey> :-)
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: are they good alternatives?
<jamey> what kind of response does it give? (although that's completely dependent on the circumstances)
<flint> What I worry about (some one needs to) is what kind of fallback is there in operation?
<ogra_ltsp> so i'd hear some opinions for the web editor stuff
<jelkner> bluefish
<ogra_ltsp> we have quanta and screem... quanta is missing documentation..... screem is complicated to use imho
<jelkner> (which is already there)
<ogra_ltsp> bluefish is as good as using gedit i think...
<ogra_ltsp> it just has some additions
* JaneW can;t comment...
<flint> Elkner says he is less concerned about packages than base functionality.
<JaneW> flint: users want packages though
<flint> Then he goes down this bluefish rathole...
<ogra_ltsp> ok, so i'd like to hear a vote or should we drop it to the ML ?
<JaneW> flint: and pretty pictures
<jelkner> the beginning of school is just around the corner
<flint> Ya gotta have the logo and all that!
<JaneW> jelkner: in the states...
<jelkner> and software freedom day is right behind that
<jelkner> (software freedom day is all over the world)
<JaneW> jelkner: we are not tying ourselfs to the school year
<flint> And then there is the Helgoland bite and the sudatenland....
<ogra_ltsp> we are only tied to the release schedule for now...
<JaneW> our release date is still geared for 13 Oct
<jelkner> i understand, JaneW, but you realize that from a marketing point of view that is not good
<ogra_ltsp> yup
<JaneW> on that day a d/l version will be available
<random003> evening all
<flint> that is the distillation of what mdz said.
<jelkner> flint and i are promoting edubuntu all over around here
<JaneW> no CDs will be pressed at this time
<jelkner> and we are having a good deal of success generating interest
<ogra_ltsp> i'm pretty confident we'll have a good CD on the weekend... if ubuntu doesnt break our base again
<jelkner> but we *are* tied to the school year
<flint> we are toying with doing a limited run of the beta for SFD
<JaneW> we agreed in a previous meeting to keep this launch relatively small, as we were having dev 'challenges '
<ogra_ltsp> so any opinions for the web authoring ?
<ogra_ltsp> before we move on ? 
<eps> is this an official meeting or am I welcome to pitch in?
<ogra_ltsp> eps, go ahead
<JaneW> flint, elkner, you guys can offer support too, so punt away... but we have to becareful of pushing to communities who may battle to implement and get quickly disillusioned
<flint> the innoculation effect - indeed!
<eps> web authoring is what regard
<JaneW> so we are not aiming for world domintaion on 13 Oct
<eps> in*
<ogra_ltsp> eps see above
<flint> what? no blitz-software!
<JaneW> but rather want to get entrenched with our enthusiasts and use them to test and troubleshoot and provide feedback to make Breezy+1 kick-ass
<jelkner> JaneW: the problem is that the world is moving forward with or without us, so we need to do our best to stay with it
<eps> ogra_ltsp, I came in late.  never mind :)
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, the problem is that we cant do much wrt ubuntu breakages
<jelkner> i've got local vendor who does IT support for non-profits interested in LTSP
<JaneW> jelkner: agreed, but the pressure was killing us (some of us literally) and it;s no good promising the world and not getting any of it right
<ogra_ltsp> and they keep our CD broken as well
<JaneW> so we need to have a properly working product before we sell it.
<jelkner> OK, i don't want to contribute to any early deaths
<flint> important question - has sabdfl come up with a name for breezy+1 that will enrage mdz yet?
<flint> sorry...
<JaneW> there's mention of something
<ogra_ltsp> i heard a name, but forgot it
<JaneW> may or may not be public yet...
<JaneW> so I will remain silent
<flint> the real question here is about upgrade path....
<JaneW> ok so can we make a call on a web authoring tool now or not?
<JaneW> flint: yes we want a stable (if very simple) base now
<JaneW> flint: whoich can be embelished and fancied up for more wow effect in the next cycle
<ogra_ltsp> options: 1. quanta, 2. screem, 3. bluefish .... make a vote
<eps> 3 :)
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: I have no knowledge 
<jelkner> JaneW: but in the interest of reducing stress, it is not packages we need right now, but ease of install and dependability
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: chmj says Quanta
<eps> though I do a lot of web coding so I'm bias
<jelkner> packages can come later
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, nope
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, its most important to have that sorted, the CD wont build if the package selection isnt clear
<JaneW> eps: which is more user friendly, especially for novices and under 18s...
<flint> elkner says that bluefish is not bad.  Ollie, what package is easiest to get in?
<eps> I would be thinking more a long the lines of a specific set of packages and don't expand on it until it is researched
<ogra_ltsp> flint, the all three are in main... 
<eps> JaneW, that is hard, those apps are rather powerful :P ...
<ogra_ltsp> so this isnt a problem... i just dont want to make the decision alone
* eps notes that he is 18
<JaneW> eps: ok thanks - but not novice it seems... ;)
<eps> JaneW, hehe, I hope not :D
<flint> the original ubuntu that we know and love did not even have a wed editor.  less is more.
<eps> JaneW, I would still have to suggest bluefish simply because it doesn't put features in your face until you need them.  so it is simple
<ogra_ltsp> but we committed to have one at the summit
<flint> sorry web replaces wed
<eps> also, why not have nvu as the web editor?
<JaneW> ok bluefish - has a nice name!
<ogra_ltsp> and a pretty icon...
<JaneW> nvu was rejected
<eps> gah k3b is killing most of my screen :(
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, what do you say ?
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: sold!
<eps> JaneW, can I ask why?
<flint> cut to fit, paint to match, fly it to Paris...
<ogra_ltsp> eps, its not supportable...
<ogra_ltsp> it ships a old insecure copy of the complete mozilla code
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportNvu
<eps> ogra_ltsp, okay... I've already lost a "not supportable" discussion with a local pc place this week when myself and several others tried to convince them to try linux so I wont comment further. :P
<JaneW> ok are we agreed on Bluefish (nice name, cute logo, and 3 votes) 3/3
<ogra_ltsp> highvoltage, around ? any opinion ?
<flint> the way out of that eps is to get a copy of crossover.  This is not free but its existance solves the argument.
<JaneW> I'll phone him
<JanC> nvu can probably be reconsidered once it runs on xulrunner...
<jelkner> btw.  Breezy kicks butt!
<ogra_ltsp> heh
<jelkner> i'm now running it all over the place
<jelkner> the sound problems with hoary are gone
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, you were in the bluefish boat too ? (i trust your RL experience most here)
<flint> elkner, who never met a beta upgrade he did not love, has it on the LTSP server and his desktop...
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: keep in mind that i'm in a cs classroom
<jelkner> bluefish works great
<jelkner> students like it, and find it easy to use
<JaneW> ok word from highvoltage ...
<ogra_ltsp> oki, sounds like a majority for bluefish
<jelkner> but i wouldn't give it to teachers to use
<jelkner> they will need to wait for nvu
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, nvu will never be in main
<highvoltage> ok i'm here
<flint> elkner managed to get hoary working, added breezy and then got the whole thing working with edubuntu.
<JaneW> highvoltage says he prefers Quanta but it does have KDE dependencies, so Bluefish is a good option, esp if we want to switch to nvu later
<jelkner> it doesn't have to be in main
<jelkner> as long as its in universe
<flint> what is the security glitch with nvu...
<JaneW> here he is
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, it does if we want it on the CD
<highvoltage> quanta is real nice.
<jelkner> we don't need it on the CD
<JaneW> highvoltage also reminided me that Open Office has a simple web edittor functionality...
<eps> bluefish is good for coding in xhtml/php so I still vote for it (I personally use jedit though)
<highvoltage> ogra_ltsp said previousely that it's touch to put on cd though, because it relies to much on stuff outside main.
<ogra_ltsp> flint, it ships a complete (very old and insecure) copy of mozilla...
<jelkner> oh, the live cd becomes an issue
<highvoltage> quanta has wysiwyg and html split view wich makes things very nice.
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, and the schools without internet access...
<eps> JaneW, as a web developer I would ask that people not know that it can make pages.  it isn't web standards compliant and it saves in a lot of rubbish data.
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, which will probably be the majority
<jelkner> quanta is kde thought
<ogra_ltsp> we also have kdeedu
<ogra_ltsp> thats nt an issue
<jelkner> a lot of dependencies for gnome desktop to support
<ogra_ltsp> not even
<JaneW> eps: like MS Word!?
<eps> JaneW, no where near as bad, though the same sort of evilness yes :)
<JaneW> html created from MS Word SUCKS
<eps> agreed
<ogra_ltsp> yup
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: if we already have kde libraries, what about k3b?
<eps> k3b yes :)
<ogra_ltsp> nope
<jelkner> nothing in the gnome world comes even close to it
<flint> If you can judge a book by its cover bluefish has a nicer logo.
<flint> ..
<eps> I love k3b... though tonight is my first time using the gnome burner (and I'm rather impressed, an iso is burning in the background)
<ogra_ltsp> not as long as we ship gnome and already have burning apps for all tasks, i wont double functionallity
<JaneW> ok we love Bluefish - edubuntu needs a cute factor
<jelkner> their is no comparision between k3b and gnome burner, k3b is *much* nicer
<highvoltage> JaneW: come look on my laptop if you want. quanta is cuter than bluefish once running.
<flint> There is nothing that warms a consultants heart more than option paralisis 
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, we have already two burning apps in gnome that are highly integrated...
<eps> lol flint
<ogra_ltsp> and it would break the CD again...
<ogra_ltsp> every app we include newly will break the CD for some days
<JaneW> come on ppl make a choice - be decisive (even if like me you can make the selection on logo cuteness)...
<eps> why do schools need an advanced burner like k3b when gnomes inbuilt one is more than enough.... is that not the real question?
<ogra_ltsp> (thats an infrastructure issue)
<highvoltage> QUANTA!
<highvoltage> sorry.
<ogra_ltsp> heh
<flint> K3b has cute to burn :^)
<ogra_ltsp> flint !
<highvoltage> flint: ;)
<flint> sorry
<jelkner> ok, i really don't want to slow things down
<ogra_ltsp> stop this burner discussion !
<ogra_ltsp> :)
<jelkner> i can live with whichever apps you see fit
<jelkner> what i'm looking for now is:
<jelkner> 1. easy to install
<jelkner> 2. robust
<jelkner> 3. pretty
<eps> okay so vote quanta vs bluefish?
* highvoltage votes quanta
<flint> elkner has carpal tunnel but only with the words apt-get :^)
* eps votes bluefish
<ogra_ltsp> for 3, i started the edubuntu-artwork package on monday: http://www.grawert.net/edubuntu/
<ogra_ltsp> so please submit artwork :)
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: great!
<ogra_ltsp> to fill it with stuff
<jelkner> the gdm screen is most important
<jelkner> it looks ugly now
<eps> jelkner, I'm not sure I agree, I would say the desktop background is far more important
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, you wont see the gdm screen on the thin clinets... 
<flint> absolutely 
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, i'm still working on ldm beautificatiopn
<jelkner> eps: ok, they are both important, because the gdm is what you see first
<JaneW> I also thinkn our default icon and font size must be bigger than normal in edubuntu 
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, not on the thin clients
<flint> the clients screens should be beautiful by default.
<jelkner> well, what do you call that login screen then?
<eps> jelkner, okay
<JaneW> chmj votes quanta
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, thats on the server...
<JaneW> anymore votes?
* highvoltage changes to neutral
<JaneW> gah!
<flint> flint votes bluefish.  who is counting the votes?
<jelkner> help me out here, when i boot a client, i get a login screen... what do you call that?
<ogra_ltsp> so we have 2:4 quanta:bluefush ?
<ogra_ltsp> so we have 1:5 quanta:bluefush and a neutral lamer :)
* highvoltage changes to neutral, leaning towards quanta
<ogra_ltsp> haha
<JaneW> ok Bluefish is MUST be
<highvoltage> i just looked at bluefish, it's improved since i've last used it.
* JaneW SLAPS highvoltage 
<highvoltage> it's still not as nice, but it's ok.
<highvoltage> JaneW: Ouch!
<JaneW> highvoltage: go to sleep ;)
<jelkner> the k12-ltsp distro did a great job on that screen. they have a schoolhouse with kids in a circle dancing, and a guy with a red fedora
<eps> bluefish :)
<ogra_ltsp> ok, lets get it to main then, i'll start the pitti (security ) fight then :)
<jelkner> we need something nice
<jelkner> what we have now is grey and ugly
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: so Bluefish it is then
<JaneW> jelkner: who did it for them?
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, i'll try to improve it, but UI freeze is near and mdz doesnt UI development
<jelkner> i don't know, but i could ask
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, i guess they use gdm or kdm which doesnt work with out ltsp 
<JaneW> jelkner: can I see it somewhere?
<ogra_ltsp> ldm is a totally new implementation for our ltsp
<ogra_ltsp> s/out/our
<flint> I feel that it should be a derivitave of the "human brown" screen we all know, and that someone out there likes with the edubuntu logo replacing the ubuntu logo.
<highvoltage> ogra_ltsp: k12ltsp uses gdm
<highvoltage> by default, the gdm standard theme.
<jelkner> yes, i agree with flint
<ogra_ltsp> there is also something called sdm, i know mdz tries to make it work, but i havent seen it yet
<highvoltage> o sorry, i'm supposed to sleep :)
<jelkner> you guys know how important branding is
<JaneW> highvoltage: ;)
<jelkner> more than we do
<highvoltage> ogra_ltsp: what's up with sdm?
<jelkner> the plain grey screen is aweful
<eps> gdm standard theme is changing with gnome 2.12
<highvoltage> i thought that was going to be edubuntu default?
<ogra_ltsp> highvoltage, mdz includes it as an option in our ltsp
<jelkner> JaneW: i'm thinking how i can get you screen shots
<highvoltage> ah
<jelkner> since it's a login screen, i don't know how
<jelkner> but let me think about it
<highvoltage> jelkner: xnest
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, xnest ;)
<highvoltage> ogra_ltsp: ^5
<ogra_ltsp> snap
<flint> xnest is not bad, it is not that big, will mdz hava a secuity cow?
<flint> for the screen shot ok oops!
<highvoltage> flint: xnest is pretty standard in ubuntu
* JaneW asked Sebastein Loss to do a Breezy Badger for Edubuntu, he said yes but I haven;t heard back from him again...
<ogra_ltsp> the problem currently is that ldm is only a pygtk app and i'm not sure if we can get beyond the gui we have currently... having it look like gdm will require to put some time into it i dont have
<JaneW> this is what he has done for ubuntu breezy http://sloss.free.fr/CCPapers.html
<flint> elkner does not have access a fedora machine until after the meeting.
<jelkner> JaneW: would you say the most useful thing i could do to help then is to:
<ogra_ltsp> i'll try to get a picture on the root window though, but the current login screen will most likely stay
<jelkner> 1. learn to use xnest
<jelkner> 2. send you images of the k12-ltsp login screen and ours
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, install it, and find it as "login in new window" under applications->system tools
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: i'm confident i can get it to work
<jelkner> flint says he has used it before
<JaneW> jelkner: ok thanks
<flint> This is way better than duct taping a scanner to the monitor. (The West Virginia version of xnest)
<ogra_ltsp> heh
<jsgotangco> hi all sorry im late 
<jsgotangco> i had too many beers
<ogra_ltsp> the prob is that we dont just export X (which isnt secure) so we cant just use a X login manager....
<ogra_ltsp> all older versions of ltsp did it like that
<JaneW> jsgotangco: !
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I thought you were grocery shopping...
<flint> so this is an archetectural issue?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: hi i hope i didnt miss anything important (hic)
<eps> what is edubuntu planning to do for different langs that will be needed?
<ogra_ltsp> flint, exactly...
<flint> then where does the terminal get its initial screen from?
<ogra_ltsp> eps, just have the language pack installed on the server ad it will be available
<ogra_ltsp> like in ubuntu
<ogra_ltsp> flint, from the booted thin client environment that gets booted locally 
<eps> I know a lady who is planning to go over seas to a poorer country rather soon and to convince her to take open source software different languages need to be available... also internet isn't widely available where she is going
<eps> (she is going to be working in schools where their computer systems will be very limited :P)
<ogra_ltsp> eps, edubuntus language capabilitys will be the same as ubuntus
<flint> right now it is coming up black on my terminal.
<ogra_ltsp> with a centered login window
<ogra_ltsp> right ?
<eps> ogra_ltsp, ah... I shall have to research that as I'm not sure of ubuntus method of dealing with langs.  (I am a debian user :|)
<flint> exactly
<ogra_ltsp> its quite different to debian
<ogra_ltsp> flint, all i can offer is to put a fullscreen pic in the background
<highvoltage> jelkner: i can get those screenshots too
<ogra_ltsp> but the login app will stay... (i changed the themeing to the default ubuntu theme locally already)
<flint> Elkner refers to this login screen as the plain grey pre walldown eastern european look :^)
<ogra_ltsp> heh
<flint> are you telling me that mdz is the stazi?
<JaneW> eps: there are 90 lagunages supported in ubuntu currently
<ogra_ltsp> its a borrowed a bit from the legacy gdm login
<eps> JaneW, okay
<JaneW> want a dump of them in a /msg?
<eps> JaneW, do you know if it is the sort of thing one could carry around on a pendisk and just install when installing a new copy of (say) edubuntu, is it .deb?
<flint> oh excellent jane!
<flint> Young children will cry when they see the current login screen.
<ogra_ltsp> eps, yes, but its split in several packages
<eps> thanks JaneW 
<jsgotangco> not all lanuages are installed by default
<eps> ogra_ltsp, understood
<flint> you mean the xdm login not the gdm
<ogra_ltsp> nope
<ogra_ltsp> switch gdm to "non graphical"
<ogra_ltsp> you'll have a similar screen to ldm
<flint> I want to resolve this language issue I will hold on the darth vader login screen issue.
<ogra_ltsp> thats how gdm looked before it got graphical
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: so you can see why they wanted it to get graphical!
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, it took them several years to get there... i'll be faster, but i'm not sure i'll make it in this release cycle
<jelkner> no problem, ogra_ltsp, you can only do what you can do
<jelkner> i'm greatful for all the fine work you've done already
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, i understand your concern... but ask flint how it looked in loindon when mdz showed ltsp to us
<ogra_ltsp> its improved a lot since then...
<ogra_ltsp> but still needs work
<flint> I was so buzy handing him a cross over cable I did not notice...
<flint> I fully intend to whine to mdz about this
<ogra_ltsp> it was unthemed four rows of widgets in the top left
<highvoltage> flint: darth vader?! where!? that would be so cool!
<ogra_ltsp> flint, nope, whine to me, i'm responsible for the UI 
<flint> yea but that dog did actually hunt!
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: question: how easy would it be to:
<flint> yea but ollie you need the hook and without it you can do little.
<jelkner> 1. change the black background to ubuntu brown
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, 1. easy
<jelkner> 2. change the grey to another ubuntu color
<jelkner> that would go a long way
<flint> if there is no graphic hook this is hard.  Is there a graphic hook for the login screen?
<jelkner> and if that is easy, why not just do that for this first release?
<ogra_ltsp> 2. is already done locally here, it uses the brown clearlooks theme
<ogra_ltsp> as all apps on the desktop
<flint> can anyone name the file where this hook lives
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: thanks for your hard work, are you feeling more possitive now?
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: I know the past few weeks have not been fun for you...
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: btw I don't see that embryo logo when I boot up, I made a point of checking today...
<JaneW> 2. burnt orange?
<ogra_ltsp> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/greeter
<jelkner> ok, then i've made more than enough noise about this already...
<ogra_ltsp> flint, ^^
<flint> we could play with it here and validate (or break :^) it with this hook.  Thanks ollie!
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, i plan to have it as pretty as gdm for our next release
<ogra_ltsp> flint, go ahead....
<JaneW> is there anything else to discuss>
<JaneW> ?
<jsgotangco> umm
<jsgotangco> i came in too late?
<ogra_ltsp> flint, if yu got improvements within the next two days (before UI freeze) mail them to me (ogra@ubuntu.com)
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: do you need anymore decisions?
<jelkner> can i ask a technical question about server specs for edubuntu?
<JaneW> oh yes docs!
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, go ahaed
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, nope
<JaneW> jsgotangco: do you want to discuss the documentation?
<jelkner> the friends of the mount rainier library is buying a server today for our library
<jsgotangco> hmm ok
<jsgotangco> there's really not that much
<jelkner> what is a good minimum spec for the server?
<flint> gotcha ollie!
<jsgotangco> i updated the Cookbook wiki
<jsgotangco> and sent ogra an html preview
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, how many clients ? 
<jelkner> half a dozen
<ogra_ltsp> which looks very good as a base already
<jsgotangco> since we really don't have a doc/art freeze, we're not constrained with the sched
<jsgotangco> umm?
<jsgotangco> hello?
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, hmm, at least a gig of ram i'd say
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: cookbook wiki?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: there is an art freeze...
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: dual processor?
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, i'd like to ignore it for edubuntu
<jelkner> or will single do
<jelkner> or what about these new dual core things?
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, i think a fast single would do... 
<flint> jane, I will test as soon as i freakin' can...
<ogra_ltsp> even better
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, it wont affect ubuntu
<flint> but you still need the ram.
<jsgotangco> err hello?
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, and i think mdz wouldnt have objections
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: you sure?
<JaneW> cos 8 Spet is listed as  DocumentationStringFreeze
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, nope :) but i'll ask him
<JaneW> s/Spet/Sept
<jsgotangco> JaneW: im the only guy doing the doc
<JaneW> and  29 Spet is ArtworkDeadline,
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, yes, but we talk about edubuntu specific papers...
<jsgotangco> JaneW: its impossible for me to finish it even if im jobless at the moment
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you mean the cookbook?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: yes 
<jsgotangco> JaneW: we are very much constrained by documentation freeze for ubuntu
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, artwork is fine with me... i think with my current artwork package we'll have a good fallback idf anything is missing 
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it will just have to complete after the release then... there's not much we can do about that right?
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: another question for you, how do you recommend i do java on edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: its workable with what we have we just have to test out
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, we'll have blackdown packages in multiverse
<jelkner> cool
<jelkner> when?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: we can still beat the sept. 8 deadline
<JaneW> highvoltage: do you have your troubleshooting guide completed yet?
<ogra_ltsp> i requested their inclusion yesterday, i dont think elmo has synced them yet
<jsgotangco> JaneW: but the meat of the cookbook is the troubleshooting
<flint> Dear jsgotangco I have the jobless thing going myself.  We need to talk about the consultancy and billing (my favorite subject:^)
<jelkner> school starts for me on sept. 6, i need to set up java by then
<highvoltage> JaneW: it's about 45% between version 1 and 2. worked on it a bit this morning.
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, i'll try to push it a bit...
<jelkner> Thanks!
<jsgotangco> JaneW: it doesn't help that i'll be speaking at LinuxWorld here in Manila in 2 weeks
<ogra_ltsp> if that doesnt work, feel free to bug me how to get the right package installed manually... i can point you to it
<ogra_ltsp> jelkner, so you wont have a difference to the later one
<flint> can anyone gossip about ubuntu and debian?
<ogra_ltsp> flint, ?
<flint> i understand that ubuntu was conspicuous in its absence at Linuxworld SF
<ogra_ltsp> oh, i didnt know that
<flint> note that I was not there...
<ogra_ltsp> ah, that was the prob then ;)
<flint> the buzz is that folks want to standardize distros around sarge...
<JaneW> ok all are we done?
* JaneW has some calls to make
<flint> yes ma'am
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, go drinking ;)
<JaneW> lol at 16:00
<ogra_ltsp> thats when my next meeting starts :)
<jsgotangco> umm
<jsgotangco> ok sorry if what i did was bitch
<ogra_ltsp> err, actually no... its later i just see...
<jsgotangco> i had a few pints
<flint> I am going to go play with /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/greeter
<ogra_ltsp> yeah :)
<flint> Dear jsgotangco email me about consultancy flint@flint.com
<flint> jane how do you get your name in the message line as in "JaneW has some calls to make"?
<flint> flint tries to refer to himself...
<ogra_ltsp> flint /me
<flint> we want to know the secrets of janew's *
* ogra_ltsp points flint to the /me command
<jsgotangco> flint: ok
* flint wants to refer to himself...
<ogra_ltsp> hehe
<flint> thanks babe!
<jsgotangco> flint: are you giving me a job? heh
<flint> no, i am scheming to keep us alive, it is a hobby right now.
<jsgotangco> heh good point
<flint> jsgotangco: email me at flint@flint.com
<jsgotangco> flint: gotcha
<JaneW> lol
* ogra_ltsp reboots to a normal desktop
<JaneW> flint: I learned the tricks of IRC back in 1995 (so i did learn somehting at varsity)
<highvoltage> flint: you can also type the first few letters of someones name and press <tab> to autocomplete
<JaneW> although it wasn;t how to type on a laptop keyboard
<jelkner> ogra_ltsp: another technical question...
<jelkner> will we be able to boot amd64 and powerpc clients?
<jelkner> can i use an amd64 server
<flint> can we use macintosh clients?
<jelkner> we have a lab setup to test all that
<jsgotangco> flint: like VNC?
<jelkner> i like to show off how cross platform free software is, so i have a mac and an amd64 all running ubuntu
<jsgotangco> probably (i hvae no clue either)
<flint> the word lab is a euphamisim for room full of ols computers...
<jelkner> jsgotangco: no, as edubuntu thin clients
<flint> the old ltsp did this
<flint> should I check with mdz?
<flint> did i piss everybody off with this question?
<ogra_> gah, i missed it
<flint> mac support for mdz ltsp.
<ogra_> no problem
<flint> groovy while we are at it.  What about sound and storage on the thin clients?  These were never right even in the original ltsp.
<ogra_> but you need a mac server as well... mixed setups wont work
<flint> WHAT!!!! they worked on k12.
<ogra_> they are neiteher at ours in the first release... thats something to sort for breezy+1
<flint> fair enough.  we are about to put in a mixed room.
<ogra_> flint, our ltsp relies very much on the initramfs on the server...
<ogra_> thats arch specific
<flint> mixed in our economic environment is very important, like a show stopper.
<ogra_> i know its planned for breezy+1 to work something out in this direction
<flint> it is better to know than to find out in combat.
<ogra_> but currently it wont work afaik.... mdz will be able to be more precise here
<ogra_> (probably it works but i dont know yes)
<ogra_> yet
<flint> this is a very important issue... I will whine to him 
<ogra_> go ahead :)
<ogra_> he'll love it :)
<flint> a-l-l-l-l righty then... thanks for all these excellent tips!
<ogra_> thanks for coming 
<flint> I will be online while i play with /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/greeter
<ogra_> oki... poke me if you got questions
<ogra_> its probably best to install glade :)
<ogra_> to work with the glade file
<jelkner> ok, everybody, i need to run... same time next week?
<JaneW> jelkner: sure
<flint> the terminal not being in the right click is a mortal sin...
<jelkner> great, by then i'll have the whole lab running
<jelkner> lots of feedback...
<jelkner> cya
<flint> thanks all...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ || 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | Aug 31 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:JaneW] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ || 24 Aug 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board
<\sh> 9 mins?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> looks like your clock matches mine ;)
<\sh> ogra: that's good :) 
* ajmitch crawls out of bed
<\sh> good morning ajmitch 
<\sh> hey jblack
<jblack> Hello, \sh. :)
<ajmitch> morning :)
<ogra> yo jblack 
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
* jblack bows
<lathiat_> morning? pah
<ajmitch> hey lathiat_ 
<ajmitch> good to see I don't need to call you ;)
<lathiat_> heh
<lathiat_> i'd just like to mention that portability sucks
<lathiat_> why can't everyone just run linux
<lathiat_> bleh!
* Nafallo == ChristianBjlevik
<bddebian> Because GNU/Hurd r0x j00
<Nafallo> :-)
<lathiat_> haha
* bddebian hides
* \sh == StephanHermann
* jblack == James Blackwell
<\sh> bddebian: hey dude...I missed u soo much
* bddebian == Barry deFreese
* siretart == ReinhardTartler
* lathiat_ == TrentLloyd
* slomo == SebastianDroege
* mbreit == MoritzBreit
<bddebian> Hi \sh, thanks :-)
* dredg == NiallSheridan
* ajmitch == asleep^WAndrewMitchell
<lathiat_> ajmitch: heh
<lathiat_> i was trying to think of somethign smartass to say
<\sh> ok..ogra has problems with dsl
<lathiat_> but alas my brain is too dead
<ajmitch> \sh: that's no surprise lately
<ajmitch> any sign of dholbach?
<lathiat_> queue dholbach joining
* pef pef == LoicPefferkorn
<\sh> I don't see him ..;)
<lathiat_> i said queue, damn it.
<\sh> damn...again popup in gnome...jumping from desktop 1 to 2
<ajmitch> \sh: you have his phone number to call him? :)
* sistpoty is Stefan Potyra
<\sh> ajmitch: aehm...ja
<\sh> yes
* Mithrandir is Tollef Fog Heen
<lathiat_> lies!
* ajmitch twiddles thumbs.. I don't want to start with both of them missing :)
<bddebian> Bah, why not? :-)
<jblack> Where is the agenda again? 
<sistpoty> MOTUMeeting (wiki)
<\sh> ah ok.
<\sh> I just phoned dholbach..he is busy in the moment...dinner with his parents etc.
<\sh> He said: Please excuse me, and have fun with the meeting :)
<lathiat_> slacker
<bddebian> Aye
<\sh> ok..where is ogra
<ajmitch> a poor excuse :)
<\sh> doesn't matter
<\sh> lets start
<ajmitch> ogra is probably cursing his dsl company
<sistpoty> hehe
<dredg> bouncy
<ajmitch> morning ogra 
<\sh> ogra: again: dholbach is sorry for not attending..because he is busy
<\sh> ogra: just phoned him
<siretart> ajmitch: hey, I'm using the same company... 
<ajmitch> first up on the agenda - what we need to do inthe 7 weeks before release
<\sh> btw..who is writing the meeting minutes for the ML and wiki?
<lathiat_> <silence>
<\sh> bddebian: ?
<lathiat_> i will if you like
* bddebian hides
* lathiat_ turns logging on
<\sh> ok lathiat_ :) 
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<bddebian> \sh: Normally I would love to but I'm swamped atm. Sorry :-(
<bddebian> Thanks lathiat_
<siretart> lathiat_: thanks!
<\sh> bddebian: teasing :)
<\sh> lathiat_: thx :) 
<slomo> \sh: i'm logging everything everytime... so for the next time just ask me ;)
<lathiat_> okie
<\sh> so lets start with ajmitch first point
<\sh> as u can see on the agenda, we have some work to do..
<\sh> 1. cairo1 to cairo2 
<ajmitch> both the cairo & slang transitions have only a few packages in them that I can see
<siretart> the last hours, there have been quite a lot of uploads because of them
<\sh> the transition must be ended..cause cairo1 is removed from the archives
<slomo> ajmitch: slang is mostly done... i only need help for maybe 3 packages
<Nafallo> I have an URL for libcairo1 on amd64 :-P
<Nafallo> http://www.magicalforest.se/tmp/give-backs_amd64.txt
<\sh> ajmitch: 47 packages? including xfce4?
* siretart counting 49 packages
<ajmitch> \sh: not many, I'd say
<ajmitch> I built them all yesterday as a test of my magic script :)
<\sh> siretart: -2 (the first 2 lines are not counting)
<siretart> ah, right
<siretart> sry
<ajmitch> a number of them showed up as successful builds in my inbox
<slomo> that's 42 source packages still depending on libcairo1 for me... well
<janimo> the xfce4 ones were done by seb128
<\sh> janimo: what about xfce4? 
<janimo> but some are waiting in buildd
<janimo> lamont needs to kick them
<janimo> I sent him a list
<\sh> janimo: good :) so it only has to be kicked by lamont or infinity
<ajmitch> so there are maybe 30 packages then
<siretart> do we have a ruby master?
<ajmitch> gtkmm/gnomemm stuff looks to be the bulk of the rest
<janimo> siretart why?
<siretart> there are 9 ruby packages in the list
<siretart> depending on libcairo1
<janimo> in the cairo list?
<ajmitch> I'll start a rebuild of them now..
<bddebian> ajmitch: You rock :-)
<siretart> and from time to time, someone joins the channel, asking what's going on with ruby
<lathiat_> What is going on with ruby?
<janimo> siretart, it doesn't install or what?
<lathiat_> does it need some love?
<\sh> guys..lets go on...technical issues in #u-motu pls :)
<janimo> anyway back to topic
<ajmitch> bddebian: I spent a few hours yesterday writing an auto-transition script
<bddebian> Nice
<\sh> ajmitch: so u compile them with your magic script...and upload them?
<ajmitch> \sh: if it all works, yes :)
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...give a status on -motu or on a wiki page..so everything which is ftbfsing we can take care of
<Mitario> hi guys, sorry to barge in, had an urgent meeting to attend :/
<ajmitch> will do
<\sh> ajmitch: thx.
<\sh> 2. slang1 -> slang2 ... 
<\sh> slomo: i saw some uploads from u
<ajmitch> slomo asked for help on ~3 or so
<slomo> yes... currently i fixed most packages
<slomo> only 4 aren't working... and i can't fix these
<\sh> mpeg2dec is uploaded / libdv as well (just rebuilds I hope...)
<ajmitch> well done :)
<slomo> the problematic packages are the ones markes upstream on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUSlang2Transition
<slomo> maybe someone with more slang knowledge than me can port them to slang2
<\sh> ok..we will have a look on them...and mpeg2dec failed on amd64
<\sh> anyways...
<lathiat_> a quick count puts libcairo1 at 47, libqt3c102-mt at 37, libgmp3 at 30 and libdps1 at 16, unmet wise
<\sh> ok..
<lathiat_> libdps1 seemed to be simple rebuilds, not sure about qt3 or gmp3
<lathiat_> i think theyre just cxx cruft leftover
<\sh> I'll take libqt3c102-mt ;)
<lathiat_> ok
<lathiat_> we should fix those big ones
<lathiat_> i'd do them if i had upload yet... maybe soon. :)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> I believe I was working on libdps1 a while ago.
<\sh> lathiat_: debdiffs to MOTUs they upload
<lathiat_> \sh: yeh but debdiffs for rebuilds are a waste of time :)
<lathiat_> suppose i can sort out what needs rebuilds
<Nafallo> rebuilt them but never came around to check them out :-P
<lathiat_> and give a list to someone like infinity who offered to do amass rebuilds
<\sh> lathiat_: make a wiki and put src-package + rebuild flag on it :)
<lathiat_> and fix what needs to be fix
<lathiat_> and debdiff tho
<lathiat_> se
* lathiat_ waves to ogra
<siretart> poor ogra
<lathiat_> ok so those are the bigger things
<lathiat_> are there any other transitions?
<\sh> hmm...why is kdelibs4 in mylist of libqt3c102-mt?
<\sh> mesa
<slomo> lathiat: GL/GLU transition
<lathiat_> yeh GL/GLU
<lathiat_> i think infinity did alot on that front
<lathiat_> probably still a bit to go
<siretart> yes, I think its completed for main
<lathiat_> yeh he seemed to be tending to some universe stuff too
<siretart> jupp
<lathiat_> any others?
<lathiat_> so gl/glu can go under those other 2
<lathiat_> dps1 and gmp3 i'll look at 
<\sh> not that I know of..unmet deps 
<siretart> well, there is also a haskell transition
<siretart> but that counts probably on gmp3
<ajmitch> yay
<lathiat_> is that the ghc6 thing?
<lathiat_> ah yes
<lathiat_> has that been bootstrapped?
<lathiat_> or is that waiting on gmp3 too?
<sistpoty> no, ghc6 was/is broken for gcc4
<siretart> lathiat_: no, we are still waiting for new ghc6 release
<lathiat_> ah
<ajmitch> sistpoty: any news of a release tere?
<sistpoty> it's not yet there...
<sistpoty> but a daily tarball from yesterday seems to do the gcc4 trick
<ajmitch> :(
<sistpoty> should we go for it?
<lathiat_> is there any indication of a rough timeline?
<siretart> sistpoty: you already did package it?!
<lathiat_> like is it likely to be within a week or two or alot longer ? 
<sistpoty> siretart: some kind of... but more a ugly hack than a package
<siretart> lathiat_: it should have been there last week
<\sh> sistpoty: go for it ..
<siretart> sistpoty: oh. ok. Let's talk about this later
<sistpoty> ok
<sistpoty> maybe i need some help, but i know where to ask for it ;)
<siretart> ok
<bddebian> Did ghc6bootstrap ever get reviewed/uploaded?
<Nafallo> .
<\sh> Nafallo: now :) welcome
<sistpoty> bddebian: no... lamont said could handle it
<lathiat_> bddebian: i think we were just saying, that it fails on gcc4, adn waiting for new release
<siretart> hi Nafallo :)
* Nafallo == ChristianBjlevik
<Mitario> oh right :)
* Mitario == Michiel Sikkes
<Nafallo> siretart: I was here, just that my text didn't get though the damn dircproxy :-P
<siretart> oh. nasty..
<\sh> sistpoty: u are talking to the right people to get this ghc6 beast into universe :)
<sistpoty> sh: actually siretart was ;)
<sistpoty> damn this \ ;)
* siretart innocent!
<siretart> ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: it's for your motu work :) 
<sistpoty> *g*
<ajmitch> ok..
<\sh> Ok.
<ajmitch> so how many transitions is that now? :)
<ajmitch> 6?
<\sh> ajmitch: 5 or 6 yes
<ajmitch> someone write these all down on MOTUTodo before I lose track of them :)
<\sh> lathiat_: is wrapping up :) and we have logfiles :)
<lathiat_> yep i'll write it all up
<ajmitch> I know
<lathiat_> and if you promised to do something i'll mail you a reminder ;p
<ajmitch> haha
<siretart> cairo, slang, gl/glu, qt3, gmp
<lathiat_> PLEASE TO FIX <THIS> KTHXBAI
<ajmitch> well I'm part-way through my limited cairo transition
<lathiat_> siretart: dps1
<lathiat_> theyre just the big ones
<lathiat_> theres lots of just a few broken apckages
<ajmitch> the script even does dch for me! :)
<lathiat_> i suspect thats largely C++ crap
<\sh> I heard the call ,-)
<\sh> next point: Automatic testbuilds of universe
<ajmitch> I heard that elmo & infinity were already doing this
<\sh> Lamont: ping :) is it possible without any hassle for u or infinity/elmo?
<lamont> uh - specifically what?
<\sh> lamont: universe?
<lamont> specifically what with universe?
<siretart> how up to date is this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/
<\sh> well...dholbach is not here...so he would know....but I could think of all packages
<lamont> I think the import is running now, meaning that none of it is current
<lamont> wanna-build -b i386/build-db -dbreezy-autotest --list=all | tail
<lamont> Total 0 package(s)
<lamont> once the import finishes, the buildd
<lamont> 's will just start going.
<siretart> cool
<\sh> k
<lamont> and, in theory, we'll know what time is 'current'
<ajmitch> so then we can get stuck in & get buried with FTBFS packages
<lamont> but I expect that any time after 'right now' will be part of the new run
<\sh> hehe
* ajmitch guesses \sh has volunteered to take on this task :)
<\sh> as ogra said today, universe won't be in shape for release this time..but that was the truth since the beginning
<ajmitch> we'll get it into as good a shape as possible then
<\sh> for breezy+1 : 1. prio fixing, polishing :)
<\sh> ajmitch: for sure..but many sources are unmaintained, but still in the archives..
<ajmitch> yep
<Mitario> is there a number of sources unmaintained somewhere?
<\sh> unmaintained == no upstream activity anymore && upstream != debian
<Mitario> ah
<ajmitch> and it'll get worse for the apt-get.org mass imports coming up
<siretart> well, thats why we call it 'universe'
<lathiat_> i think we really need to be harsh on selecting apt-get.org stuff to import
<\sh> ajmitch: I will talk about apt-get.org with dholbach when I meet him in berlin
<\sh> ajmitch: it was his goal for breezy I think but it looks like, that we have to postpone this goal to breezy+1
<ajmitch> expanding universe & QA of universe seem to collide head-on :-/
<dredg> with much much fallout.
<lathiat_> its sortof a side-on collision
<lathiat_> :)
<ajmitch> which is ogra's point later (no more NEW packages)
* bddebian checks his side-impact airbag
<lathiat_> except really cool packages (tm)
<Yagisan> like mine :)
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that would be pushing it
<lathiat_> preferebly 5 letter projects starting and ending in A
<Yagisan> sorry
<lathiat_> err
<ajmitch> lathiat_: ending in A? ;)
<lathiat_> ajmitch: its 4:46am ;p
<lathiat_> thats what the 'err' was about ;p
* ajmitch hands lathiat_ some caffiene :)
<siretart> lets move on
<\sh> ok so we will concentrate right now in fixing stuff, less NEW packages/reviewing
<lathiat_> should review fixed packages tho
<bddebian> Fixing "stuff" ?
<lathiat_> bddebian: unmet deps, FTBFS
<slomo> bddebian: transitions
<\sh> "Fixing Sources to build with gcc4/g++4"
<bddebian> OK 
<lathiat_> \sh: that world of fun
<Nafallo> bugs
<bddebian> Is UnmetDeps still huge?
<\sh> lathiat_: yes :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: getting stuck in & getting your hands dirty
<siretart> bddebian: UnmetDeps are always huge
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's big enough to warrant some love - I'll rebuild the list as a test
<\sh> lets go on....jblack is waiting :)
* ajmitch is hanging out for jblack's talk :)
* siretart too :)
* Nafallo to
* Mitario too
<\sh> ajmitch: patches towards debian (breezy+1)
<ajmitch> but I've already been using baz & bzr
<ajmitch> yes!
<ajmitch> we need to reduce our pain for breezy+1!
<lathiat_> we should also consider patches to upstream
<lathiat_> not just debian
<siretart> ajmitch: how should this pushing work?
<lathiat_> where appropraite
<Nafallo> I'm definitly for less pain ;-)
<lathiat_> i think build fixes would be a big thing in this area
<ajmitch> siretart: bug reports
<\sh> first of all...
<lathiat_> gcc4 wise
<\sh> there is this utnubu project of debian
<lathiat_> heh best name
<siretart> ajmitch: this meens manual work for each diff, right?
<ajmitch> siretart: if you have the time for it, yes
<\sh> right now they're fetching our patches somehow.and applying some of them to debian packages
<sistpoty> sh: you mean utnubu?
<sistpoty> + \
<ajmitch> if you look on packages.qa.debian.org/fillinpackagenamehere, then there's an ubuntu patch link where we've done some work
<\sh> moment
<\sh> ogra on phone
<siretart> ajmitch: thats also nothing for doing right now, lets concentrate rather on stabilizing
<ajmitch> although the utnubu team exists, IMHO it doesn't excuse us from contacting the debian maintainers
<\sh> !!! ATTENTION !!!
* ajmitch listens
<\sh> APT-GET.ORG IS A MUST OF MARK!
<siretart> this means for us MOTU's?
<ajmitch> oh dear
<sistpoty> damn
<lathiat_> joy
<siretart> I did not really get that APT-GET.ORG Project. I thought there would exist some script that automatically check random source repositories on apt-get.org, right?
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, but we have to check the packages for worthiness
<lathiat_> siretart: yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptGetOrg
<Yagisan> there is, but it would miss repos like mine
<siretart> I'm rather confused how that fits into 'NO MORE NEW PACKAGES'
<lathiat_> siretart: the mark foot
<ajmitch> siretart: pre-existing goal 
<janimo> siretart, it doesn't :)
<ajmitch> I already asked ogra about that
<bddebian> no more new (after apt-get.org) ;-P
<siretart> hrhr
<siretart> silence?
<lathiat_> yeh
<lathiat_> ok so we nee dto do apt-get.org stuff
<slomo> \sh: we're all shocked ;)
<ajmitch> so where does that put us for reviewing NEW packages? :)
<lathiat_> i think we should try get the big transitions out the way first
<\sh> ok
<ajmitch> lathiat_: yes, please
<\sh> yes
<\sh> me too
<lathiat_> concentrate on that
<lathiat_> when thats done
<\sh> 1. ogra is excused...he doesn't get any connection via dsl
<lathiat_> we'll come back and talk
<ajmitch> Yagisan: sorry, it probably means deng won't get into breezy
<\sh> 2. apt-get.org is a SABDFL have to be included very important project
<lathiat_> Yagisan: just list it on apt-get.org
<lathiat_> Yagisan: and then it will be footed through the door
<Yagisan> ajmitch: but deng IS on apt-get.org
<\sh> mvo: ping
<ajmitch> imho mark is smoking some crack there :)
<Yagisan> for 6months +
<\sh> I hope mvo is awake
<siretart> hm. apt-get.org needs serious organisation
<Yagisan> your apt-get.org script is broken by design and won't pick it up
<siretart> perhaps we can hack up revu2 to faciliate that
<janimo> mark stated he wants apt-get even before _hoary_
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> but ogra told me : THIS IS IMPORTANT ! 
<siretart> I was already thinking about some sort of 'auto' or 'remote' import of random stuff like repositories from apt-get.org
<slomo> siretart: but revu2 isn't ready for breezy i think... and this seems to be a breezy goal :/
<lathiat_> ok so i think we need to get the big transitions out the way and then have a meeting about aptgetorg
<siretart> slomo: I know. thats the problem
<lathiat_> get a few people to go through create a 'feasible' list
<lathiat_> and then prune that further
<sistpoty> siretart: i also doubt that revu2 will be there before breezy will be out
<siretart> sistpoty: jepp
<Nafallo> lathiat++
<slomo> lathiat_: sounds the best
<ajmitch> yep
<lathiat_> by pruning, check out the packages, see if they are in at least relatively good shape
<ajmitch> since a blind mass import == DISASTER :)
<lathiat_> compare sources to upstream
<lathiat_> check all the scripts etc for security bugs
<lathiat_> last thing we want to do is import a backdoor into breezy in some cool package
<siretart> ok. I think we agreed
<ajmitch> or some broken packages that accidentally does rm -rf / on remove
<lathiat_> we'll also have to consider keeping them up to date after breezy
<lathiat_> ajmitch: yeh, exactly
<Yagisan> some of those things at apt-get.org aren't even redistributable
<siretart> next?
<Nafallo> could we have the sab on that aptgetorg meeting please? :-)
<lathiat_> Yagisan: sure, thats what we need to prune out
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I know, that's why we do license review as well
<ajmitch> Nafallo: we can try & get him here
<mvo> \sh: pong
<ajmitch> mvo!
<slomo> lathiat: how is the keeping up to date of these packages done? manual work? or automatic syncing?
<\sh> mvo: apt-get.org :)
<lathiat_> slomo: really needs to be manual i think to keep an eye on them
<\sh> mvo: ogra told me, you worked on the scripts with dholbach?
<lathiat_> slomo: just because it didnt contain problems before...
<mvo> \sh: yes
<mvo> ajmitch: hi!
<mvo> something wrong with it?
<\sh> mvo: ok...how is it working? 
<ajmitch> mvo: the whole concept :)
<Mitario> hey mvo :)
<\sh> mvo: actually...we don't have the time and the power to do all reviewing of those packages and building the stuff, fixing for breezy
<siretart> and how much manual work does it involve?
<mvo> the whole concept of importing a random pile of (possilbe) junk?
<Nafallo> mvo: (and backdoors)
<Nafallo> ;-)
<\sh> and old kernels
<\sh> wow
<siretart> ogra!
<ajmitch> mvo: more or less
<ajmitch> ogra: welcome back
<lathiat_> siretart: get sources, compare to upstream, security/sanity check all the debian specific stuff, make sure it builds, check that its likely to be maintainable, do a license check and make sure its distributable
<ajmitch> hi Mez 
<lathiat_> siretart: preferebly check the author is likely to maintian them 
<ajmitch> lathiat_: the only problem is there can be > 1000 packages there
* ogra waves
<ogra> no idea how long my line will work this time
<lathiat_> ajmitch: yup
<mvo> it's a sabdfl goal, so there is little room to argue. but it's certainly up to the reviewer to decide what to include and what not ...
<lathiat_> ajmitch: so (what i just said) * 1000
<lathiat_> ajmitch: i think we can chop the list down a lot tho
<ajmitch> ogra: we're just talking about apt-get.org
<ajmitch> and then your no NEW packages
<lathiat_> ajmitch: without doing the whole process
<lathiat_> just check out what the package is, some stuff like kernel stuff can probably just be thrown out
<lathiat_> etc
<ajmitch> lathiat_: throwing out the obvious crap?
<lathiat_> ajmitch: yeh
<lathiat_> ajmitch: and then the less obvious obvious crap
<lathiat_> ajmitch: and then put effort into reviewing
<mvo> I would start with the stuff that actually builds and looks interessting. that should be a fairly short list ;)
<ajmitch> so we might only have 500 to review :)
<lathiat_> right
<ajmitch> mvo: I think that's about 10 :)
* lathiat_ grins at ajmitch 
<ogra> hmpf, i have a lag around 25sec
<mvo> good start I guess :)
<lathiat_> ogra: nice
<\sh> mvo: x86 is no problem...but amd64/ppc this will be funny...without a working environment...
<siretart> mvo: can I have a look at your apt-get.org scripts?
<lathiat_> siretart: they are linked of AptGetOrg, are they not the right ones?
<siretart> lathiat_: ah, moment
<mvo> lathiat_: they should be the right ones, but we also have a baz repository
<ajmitch> mmm, baz
<mvo> dholbach will be back soon and looking over the list is one of his personal breezy goals
<siretart> hmm
<Yagisan> siretart: they won't grab anything in a "sarge" repo
<mvo> \sh: we could arrange a test-building on a ppc machine I think
<ajmitch> mvo: I've got a ppc box, but it might be a bit slow :)
<ajmitch> the raw power of a 400MHz G3
<lathiat_> bah ppc is outdated anyway
<lathiat_> its all about intel now
<Nafallo> ;-)
<mvo> ajmitch: heh :) 
<sistpoty> hm... does anyone know, whether pearpc or alikes could be used for test-environment?
<Nafallo> AMD :-)
<lathiat_> sistpoty: slow+++
<Yagisan> sistpoty: No, I tried
<lathiat_> sistpoty: and then some
<bddebian> OK gang, sorry but have to run.  I'll read the logs :-)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: maybe for breezy+12
<\sh> bddebian: have fun
<sistpoty> cya bddebian
<slomo> ok, what exactly is breezy goal now? starting to work on the apt-get.org project or is this 1st priority and we have to do as much as possible?
<lathiat_> transitions are first priority
<mvo> the list was compiled with a amd64 as a build machine, so some basic checking of portability was done
<lathiat_> including unmets
<lathiat_> also reviewing fixed stuff
<ajmitch> yes, first priority is getting stuff built that we already have
<ajmitch> then we can look at stuff we don't have :)
<ogra> note that apt-get.org is a sabdfl requirement, we should hendle it with as high priority as we can
<siretart> ok
<lathiat_> ogra: yes, but i still think transitions shoudl come first
<\sh> ogra: first stablize the "already haves" then NEW apt-get
<siretart> ogra: how does that fit to no NEW packages?
<Nafallo> ogra: like after we does not have a broken universe? ;-)
<lathiat_> siretart: sideways :)
<ogra> siretart, i mean dont waste manpower in packaging funny new stuff... apt-get.org was in hoary, it should be in breezy as well
<Nafallo> s/does/do/
<\sh> ogra: should I talk about it with sabdfl...thx to all the transitions we had, we, as team, have not enough time for all the packages
<siretart> ogra: aah. ok, now I understand
<Nafallo> \sh: what about having the sab on the aptgetorg-meeting after the transitions?
<mbreit> ogra: then uploading packages on revu is still okay?
<ogra> note that dholbach did apt-get.org alone in three weeks for hoary, its a task a team of two or three can do relatively fast... 
<siretart> right
<siretart> so lets rediscuss this topic again in 2 weeks
<mvo> dholbach will probably work fulltime on it for some days/weeks
<siretart> we are busy enough with those 6 transitions
<Nafallo> agreed
<\sh> but building the packages is one thing, are they working as expected is the 2nd
<ogra> mvo, yes, but mdz requested it to be done early because these packages come in external and should recieve more testing then last time as i understood it
<mbreit> but again: so what's the opinion about uploading the packages which are already on revu? is that still okay?
<ogra> in any case it think we shouldnt waste manpower to NEW stuff, if external people come with packages its nice to have them in revu, but they should be aware that their packages might not make breezy
<mvo> ogra: agreed
<ajmitch> ogra++
<Yagisan> what is said packages are both on apt-get.org, and in revu ?
<ajmitch> so spend less time reviewing on REVU, more time fixing?
<ogra> mbreit, we need to draw a line anywhere
<Yagisan> I can't be the only one
<ogra> we should always have the best package.... but that draws morw time since you need to compare
<siretart> ogra: I think its a bit unfair: ppl preparing packages on apt-get.org get packages in universe with one MOTU vote, and ppl using revu or wiki need 3 motus. I think that barrier should really be lowered
<\sh> imho it's better to have packages in revu then on apt-get.org...so we have to encourage the maintainers to come to us...and not we to them
<ajmitch> so what else do we have to talk about on this topic?
<sistpoty> ++ \sh
<lathiat_> siretart: thats next up
<lathiat_> siretart: reducing to 2
<slomo> \sh: ++
<mbreit> I still don't see the point in giving packages on apt-get.org a so much higher priority then the ones on revu..
<\sh> The reasoning behind this is obvious:
<\sh>     *
<\sh>       let us have a look at those packages, provide them through Ubuntu and make sure people don't have to add random repositories to their /etc/apt/sources.list.
<ajmitch> mbreit: simple, it's a request from sabdfl :)
<\sh> backports issue in the past was a good example (not the same but )
<ogra> \sh, still apt-get.org is a sabdfl request to attract the apt-get.org maintainers to join us, he's very serious about that
<Mitario> ajmitch, revolt ;-)
<Yagisan> can only the active apt-get.org repos be checked ?
<\sh> ogra: we don't want really kernel packages in universe which we never will use?
<siretart> well, sabdfl's request is clear, his intention too
<siretart> my proposal stands..
<ajmitch> siretart: dropping the number of REVU votes required?
<siretart> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> or making every apt-get.org & revu review equal? :)
* \sh needs a blade center in cluster mode
<siretart> or that, but I don't think that was the intention of sabdfl
<lathiat_> i think 2 is good
<slomo> ajmitch: imho they should be handled equal... or revu should be handled with less votes... but well ;)
<lathiat_> gives a second chance to pick up on things
<ajmitch> lathiat_: yes, but apt-get.org imports would be too slow if they all required 2 MOTU votes
<lathiat_> ajmitch: im talking about revu not apt-get
<ajmitch> lathiat_: I know
<lathiat_> apt-get shoudl be 1, but preferebly someone who knwos what theyre doing and not afraid to ask for opinions, esp security related
<ajmitch> but I suggested equal voting
<ajmitch> well dholbach knows what he is doing
<lathiat_> yes i dont doubt that
<Yagisan> but wouldn't apt-get.org be better quality, if two sets of eyes checked them out ?
<ajmitch> the rest of us just don't have that much time to commit
<siretart> revu reviewing is perhaps more easy and goes more quickly
<siretart> I wouldn't insist on equal vote, but 3 is imo too high
<ajmitch> at least with revu we have contact with the maintainers
<siretart> and after all: everyone in the revu keyring can sponsor packages to revu!
<sistpoty> i would go for 2 revu votes, just a stomache feeling however
* ajmitch thinks we need to get this meeting finished soon
* siretart too
<siretart> any objections?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I'd be inclined to agree
<lathiat_> nerp
<Nafallo> 2 votes, we can always raise that number again :-)
<slomo> ok, i'm for two votes... and when that doesn't work we talk about it then ;)
* Yagisan likes two votes
* mbreit agrees, too
<lathiat_> ok i think we're sold on that
<siretart> ok. then let's have ogra agreed, when his dsl get's better
<\sh> ogra: u as uber-motu :) give your sabdfl vote ,-)
<lathiat_> i think thats it as far as the agenda goes
<siretart> \sh: I think he is offline again :(
<lathiat_> haha
<siretart> there
<lathiat_> timing++
<lathiat_> its back
<ajmitch> there's still jblack's singing & dancing demo
<lathiat_> yes also the next meeting
<siretart> lathiat_: 2 weeks
<lathiat_> could the next meeting please be at leat +/- 4 hours of this one? or not? :)
<siretart> jblack: ping?
<jblack> Right here
<siretart> cool! :)
<\sh> ok...2005-09-07?
<ajmitch> \sh: yes, what time?
<\sh> i don't mind...I have holiday :)
<ajmitch> :P
<lathiat_> 1600, or 0000 on the 8th. :)
* lathiat_ coughs
<lathiat_> 1600 so ajmitch can get up at 4 :)
<\sh> so
<ajmitch> evil lathiat_ :P
<\sh> lets say again: 22:00 UTC?
<lathiat_> never!
<lathiat_> bah
<ajmitch> lathiat_: what, 6am too hard for you? ;)
<lathiat_> oh well i have no uni on thursdays
<lathiat_> \sh: ok
<Mitario> hmm, late for us europeans ;)
<lathiat_> we should just rotate the meeting 8 hours each meeting :)
* ajmitch will have to take time away from work to be there at 2200
<\sh> Mitario: think I have to be back in office tomorrow morning at 4:00 UTC :) latest 
* Mitario at school at about 6 UTC
<Mitario> 6:00
* lathiat_ lazing around in bed at * UTC
<Mitario> but don't mind ;)
<\sh> ok....that's setteled
<\sh> 2005-09-07 22:00 UTC?
<lathiat_> ok
<lathiat_> that works
<Mitario> fine by me :)
<sistpoty> no objections
<ajmitch> if we must :)
<siretart> ok
<Mitario> too bad I didn't follow this whole meeting :( sorry for that guys
<lathiat_> trust ajmitch to spoil the fun
<lathiat_> Mitario: you can read my super-cool summary
<Mitario> altough I unsderstood bout 60% of it ;)
<Mitario> lathiat, ok great :)
<lathiat_> wonder i if i can fit it in 384 bytes
<\sh> i updated motumeeting page
<\sh> jblack: your stage :)
<jblack> Ok guys. 
<Mitario> will the todo be updated priority-wise?
* Mitario shuts up
<jblack> First and foremost: I think ubuntu should return to its roots -- and then some -- by including an issue of Playboy with each cd release.
<lathiat_> you know
<lathiat_> i think your onto something there
<jblack> Now that I've got your attention.. :) 
<Mitario> w00t
<Nafallo> lol
<siretart> absolutley :)
<jblack> For those of you that don't know me, I'm James Blackwell. I've been a free software developer for quite some time, currently work for canonical. I have a variety of resposibilities at work, one of which is bazaar adoption and mindshare.
* ajmitch really has to leave for work.. already smoking the bazaar crackpipe here ;)
<jblack> In personal life, I'm a single father and _very_ heady coffee drinker. :) 
* Mitario is impressed :)
<jblack> I asked Ogra, who was kind enough to accept, for this opportunity to speak with you guys quickly (less than 10 minutes, ajmitch)... 
<jblack> As many of you probably know, canonical sponsors ubuntu, launchpad and bazaar. 
<jblack> These are all good things. (If you want proof, take a look at the crack team we have sitting here right now for MOTU)
<jblack> What I need to do, and hope you guys can help me with, is talk to projects, particularly smaller ones, about Bazaar.
<siretart> so you need testers?
<jblack> You guys are pretty well connected in the free software arena, and would know of projects that could really use bazaar. 
<Mitario> I guess just marketing?
<janimo> jblack, do you import svn archives on request?
<jblack> janimo: We sure do.
<lathiat_> jblack: who do we talk to about that?
<lathiat_> jblack: (I assume we're talking about the regular sync thing)
<jblack> lathiat: Any of the bazaar team. I'm probably best. 
<janimo> I'd like xfce in arch.ubuntu.com :)
<lathiat_> jblack: svn://svn.0pointer.de/avahi thanks. :)
<jblack> Anyways, over the next couple weeks I'll be talking with each one of you. I'll generally ask two questions from each of you: 
<Mitario> let him go on with the talk :)
<siretart> jblack: can you explain in short about the status of hct? I see there is a mailing list, but it is empty
<jblack> 1. what sort of projects are you aware of/invovled in that could potentailly benefit from bazaar.
<jblack> 2. would you be willing to introduce me to these people in a friendly sort of way, so that I can talk to them, give them the good and the bad. 
<ajmitch> hm, tough sell
<jblack> That's my problem. :) 
<ajmitch> getting people to switch is a big move
<Mitario> hmm, I would happy to switch my own projects..
<lathiat_> yeh note the "smaller projects" part :)
<Mitario> and some of my friends
<lathiat_> easier to convince
<jblack> Yeah, it can. People get used to a certain way of doing things, and don't like the risk of change.
<lathiat_> jblack: tried kde? :)
<Mitario> haha
<jblack> Its part of my job to make it easy for them to change without feeling worried. 
<ajmitch> hence the number of people still using CVS :)
<lathiat_> ugh cvs
<jblack> lathiat: Using it now, as a matter of fact. :) 
<Mitario> jblack, hmm, that's cool
<lathiat_> jblack: ha, funny. ;p
<ajmitch> people don't often like to learn new tools, either
<\sh> jblack: first of all, thx for your time :) but, how do u want to fight against the software, which is moving from old style CVS towards new stylish SVN?
<Yagisan> Do you have a "bazaar for dummies" ? 
<jblack> The ideal targets are projects that either A) dislike the revision control system that they are using, B) projects using CVS or SVN, and C) projects not using an rcs at all.
<janimo> especially that baz has tla legacy of worst UI on earth according to some
<jblack> Yagisan: I'd be happy to walk you through it, *personally*, though you'll owe me. :) 
* Yagisan has to go. baby woke up
<jblack> Ok. As promised, less than 10 minutes. :) 
<ajmitch> Yagisan: put aside some beer money :)
* sistpoty ducks and trys to hide revu's use of svn
* lathiat_ smirks
<jblack> The rest of this is just q&a until people get bored, or you guys drive me to drink. :) 
<Nafallo> siretart: lol
<ajmitch> I'm sure it won't take much driving :)
<Mitario> jblack, wow, that's great, i would love to get some more instruction about baz/bzr some time
<jblack> Ok. the first question was along the lines of 'what is bazaars status' 
<\sh> jback: single fathers do not drink ,-) (coffee is ok btw...I'm as well a caffeine junky)
<janimo> jblack, would something like first importing and tracking 3rd party stuff in baz
<janimo> and then trying to convince the devels on eby one?
<lathiat_> jblack: can bazaar keep track of where you merged last and figure out what to try and merge (if you want it to just try to 'merge all')
<ajmitch> jblack: the other question that people will ask is 'why should I switch'?
<ajmitch> lathiat_: sure
<jblack> janimo: As a matter of fact, we have 500 imported right now. When I'm done here, I'm going to double check the gnome stuff is imported. 
<lathiat_> good
<lathiat_> cus its pissing me off with svn
<lathiat_> having to tell it what to merge
<ajmitch> lathiat_: it merges revisions & keeps track of them, unlike svn
<ajmitch> I've mainly been using bazaar-ng for my small needs
<siretart> jblack: imported where? is there a list of imported projects?
<jblack> Current status is thus: Bazaar has two major versions right now: a 1.x and a 2.x. The 1.x is derived from tla with a metric-crapload of fixes. :) 
<jblack> sirtart: You can see them at http://bazaar.ubuntu.com, or search for them at http://www.sourcecontrol.net
* siretart looks. thanks
<jblack> Bazaar 1.x is a _huge_ improvement over tla. It performs quite a bit better, and has a much cleaner interface. HOwever, the old underlying models are still present. 
<jblack> Bazaar 2.x is a full redesign. It keeps the distributed nature of bazaar (Woohoo!) and drops all of the complicated crap that everyone hated (double woohoo!)
<ajmitch> 2.x is still immature, has missing functionality, but is still really good & usable 
<jblack> However, bazaar 2.x is currently at 0.0.6... so, its not entirely there yet.
<Mitario> so 2.x is not derived from tla anymore?
<ajmitch> Mitario: rewrite & redesign, in python
<\sh> bazaar 2.x was this python rewrite?
<Mitario> ok
<\sh> ah yes
<jblack> No. 2.x is a full fresh start. We kept the good stuf, and threw out the crap. :) 
<ajmitch> \sh: more a redesign than a rewrite
<jblack> We took lessons from tla, bazaar, monitone... even bitkeeper.
<ajmitch> & the current hot favourites, git & darcs :)
<\sh> ajmitch: let me take a guess.. 1.x is incompatible to 2.x?
<ajmitch> \sh: currently, yes
<lathiat_> Well, I'll be imprtessed when monotone maintains its tree with bzr. :)
<jblack> 1.x does not interoperate from 2.x. However, we promise that there's a migration path.
<\sh> jblack: so right now, baz should be used until bzr becomes stable...
<jblack> So if you go to bazaar 1.x today, you'll be able to convert to bazaar 2.x when its ready (it'll be getting close on halloween (oct 31), and it should be ready on new year's)
<jblack> \sh: It depends upon the project, and what the project needs, really.
<Mitario> is bzr enough for simple 1-person project which is just stored on some remote server?
* ajmitch loves python, clean code & the bzr way
<jblack> For small, independant projects, bazaar 2 is already probably useful. 
<jblack> For multi-team projects, it probably needs a bit more
<ajmitch> Mitario: no remote push as yet, you'd need to rsync your tree
<Mitario> ah
<Mitario> because I always work on my projects from home and from work
<\sh> jblack: when I see todays projects (small ones or even bigger ones like kde) I would like to see an easy way for distributed repositories (like bitkeeper)
<Mitario> and I place them on the work server
<Mitario> so I can update the code from there
<Mitario> so I would have to use baz for that
<jblack> The key part, though, is I'd *love* for you guys to introduce me ("hey, here's this guy jblack. He works on bazaar. I think you and he should talk") sort of stuff. 
<ajmitch> "and he plays a mean game of Mao"
<jblack> I'm no kinnison
<siretart> jblack: can you comment on hct? what is it? whats the status?
<jblack> Here's what I can say about hct... 
<\sh> jblack: I played with baz a bit...and when I remember one thing,than how to store the repository on a server...via webdav, right?
<ajmitch> \sh: or sftp
<jblack> It looks really frigging cool, it looks really awesomely promising, and where it sits today exactly, I have no clue. :) \
<Mitario> \sh, i thought you could just sftp the server with archive-mirror?
<jblack> I'll get with Scott though and get an update of its status.
<Mitario> what IS hct actually? sorry :)
<jblack> hct is the hypothetical changeset tool.
<siretart> lol
<Mitario> uhh right..
<siretart> I love that name :)
<ajmitch> deeply tied in with launchpad, I believe
<Mitario> very descriptive ;-)
<jblack> Once hct is complete, its going to change the life of every single ubuntu developer, and probably the life of most distro developers over time. 
<ajmitch> allows for _easy_patching & merging of packages
<Mitario> ah cool
<jblack> Basically, yeah. When you get right down to it, its a package patch tracker that's built just to ease tracking upstreams.
<\sh> siretart: can we arrange a webfrontend for baz/bzr in trac/revu2? ,-)
<Mitario> sorry guys, I have to get to school tomorrow
<lathiat_> revu2 with launchpad+bzr integration FTW
<Mitario> jblack, thanks for the explanation and question answering
<siretart> \sh: first I want to understand how to USE baz
<\sh> Mitario: cu :) and thx for attending :)
<mvo> bye Mitario 
<jblack> mitario: Thanks for hanging out so long. Good luck in class.
<Mitario> jblack, is it allright to come with you for questions?
<\sh> siretart: there is a good howto
* siretart is more than confused from the first tutorials
<Mitario> or a quick-guide?
<jblack> (I suggest white eye shadow on the eyelids with fake eyes penciled in)
<siretart> \sh: where?
<Mitario> jblack, hehe ;)
<jblack> Absolutely! 
<siretart> bye Mitario 
<sistpoty> cya Mitario
<jblack> Anybody that thinks they can't approach me at any time for *anything* should approach me and tell me why. :) 
<Mitario> bye everyone, i'll be here tomorrow for some quick MOTU start guides, if that's allright :)
<Mitario> eh, in -motu i mean
<\sh> siretart: http://bazaar.canonical.com/
<Mitario> cheers, gn
<siretart> jblack: is there some baz channel where e.g. package maintainers can ask stupid questions about how to use baz?
<\sh> siretart: http://bazaar.canonical.com/HelpForBeginners
<jblack> There's several, and any of them will work.
<\sh> forget the 2nd link ;-)
<siretart> hrhr
<lathiat_> \sh: err, i know how to use a wiki ;p
<lathiat_> haha
<lathiat_> one thing i liked about b az
<jblack> There's #bazaar for 1.x (and eventually 2.x), #bzr for bazaar 2. I also hang out in #arch (who I'm trying to slowly migrate to #bazaar)
<lathiat_> i can changelog on the fly
<lathiat_> with svn i have to write them down
<lathiat_> annoys the crap out of me
<\sh> jblack: most of the stuff from baz 1.x comes from gnu arch..so the handling is just like this tool
<jblack> I'm also happy with private messages.
<lathiat_> or go back and review my diff
<jblack> \sh: Its similiar, though some of the worst parts have been taken out.
<jblack> For example, star-merge was replaced by a mesh merge, which lets anybody just merge with anybody else (its not flawless though) 
<jblack> Also, there's a branch command. 
<jblack> A lot of those "why does it do what I say, not what I mean" sort of stuff has been fixed up. _loads_ of that.
<\sh> jblack: ok...lets say, there is a SVN repos
<\sh> jblack: and some devs are using a local baz repos but the main line will stay with svn, for web display etc. (as I said, all repos web apps are moving to svn, because it's easy)
<jblack> I think we can agree there is _a_ SVN repos. :) 
<\sh> how do they merge there local repos to the main one? and I think that's the worst part
<jblack> Ahh. How do you handle the merging between the two disimiliar archives? 
<\sh> jblack: bingo :)
<jblack> Yeah.
<jblack> The same way third parties normally have to merge with svn. 
<jblack> They hand a diff off to a project god somewhere. 
<jblack> If they happen to be a comittable svn user as well, they can probably sneak through dual managed trees as well. :)
<\sh> ok manual work most of the time...
<\sh> loosing the history as well
<\sh> -o
<siretart> maybe a stupid question, but still: I see that baz is great at branching but what cool features does it have for resolving conflicts?
<jblack> We support three way diff markers, of course.
<jblack> so if there's a conflicted file, you just look at the two conflicted parts in context and pick the best one. 
<siretart> like this 3way mergetool to bitkeeper?
<jblack> We also have a conflict resolution tracker built in (I wrote that one. :)
<jblack> So you can tell baz whether or not you've fixed a conflict.
<jblack> Not like the integrated editor one, no. 
<siretart> ah, ok. I see
<jblack> A three way conflict is easy to see. 
<jblack> It goes something like this:
<jblack> code
<jblack> <<<<<
<jblack> conflict 1
<jblack> =====
<jblack> conflict 2
<jblack> >>>>
<jblack> more code
<\sh> like cvs
<jblack> You edit the file, and you see that right at the place of the conflict.
<jblack> Yeah, I think cvs has something similiar.
<siretart> mmh, would it also be possible to make use of external mergers, like xemacs or xxdiff?
<jblack> I'd like to mention that CVS traveled into the future (relative to them), and stole the idea from us.
<\sh> adding / deleting directories is also a topic..svn does it correct, removes directories when u want it...and not like cvs..how about baz/bzr
<jblack> If the tools can handle it, then it should work fine. 
* lathiat_ grins at jblack 
<jblack> adding and removing dirs works great in bazaar. if you wipe out a directory, its deleted.
<jblack> if yo uadd a directory, you baz add it.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-30
<\sh> nice
<jblack> in bazaar 2.0, a new directory is also ignored until added (but bzr add dirname/ adds everything recursively)
<lathiat_> jblack: can you override that behavior? (its not always desired)
* ajmitch at work, finally :)
<jblack> There's been recent talk to allow for just that. :) 
<lathiat_> jblack: cool
<lathiat_> jblack: because take for example autotools
<lathiat_> i dont want my Makefile in there
<lathiat_> if i already generated it
<jblack> Oh, I think the current case is ideal then.
<\sh> ignores
<jblack> bzr add dir; baz remove Makefile
<lathiat_> well you could do that
<lathiat_> i suppose both should be supported
<jblack> We're grown up professionals. We can think in set notation. :) 
<lathiat_> because
<ajmitch> also use .bzrignore
<lathiat_> depending on whether the dir has lots to be included
<lathiat_> or lots to be ignored
<lathiat_> 1 would be faster than the other
<jblack> Yeah. So I think all three methods for that particular problem will be supported. 
<ajmitch> the bazaar-ng mailing list is also fairly active
<jblack> Martin is the final judge, jury and executioner though..
<lathiat_> I'll bribe him
<jblack> Oh, not necessary.
<lathiat_> hehe jk :)
<ajmitch> what beer does he like? 
<lathiat_> i really need to get daniels that case i owe him
<lathiat_> wonder if any stores deliver
<jblack> Unlike a certain Lom Tord, he handles logical arguments very well and can be persuaded if you give him reasoning that exeeds his. 
<\sh> jblack: So I can poke you for some services for some ubuntu volunteer development projects? it looks like that I have to use baz or bzr depends for a project latest after breezy release
<ajmitch> lathiat_: I think mpool might be in sydney
<jblack> \sh: Heh. I'm *asking* you to. 
<jblack> My primary focus is to assist projects in moving to bazaar. :) 
<lathiat_> ajmitch: canberra
<siretart> jblack: what helper scripts/frontends to baz would you recommend to package maintainers?
<ajmitch> jblack: great, so that's why you've been helping madduck along :)
<ajmitch> lathiat_: ah yes
<jblack> Of course, projects (at least small ones), don't change their minds, make decisions, or migrate... people do.
<ajmitch> too many australians in #bzr
<siretart> ajmitch: lol
<jblack> ajmitch: Exactly. I'd like to work with 3-4 people like madduck a day (3 new, 1 from the day prior)
<ajmitch> jblack: I'm also in the pkg-zope team, so his findings are always interesting
<jblack> definitely cool.
<\sh> bah..I had a strange dream now
<ajmitch> \sh: what post-breezy projects do you have in mind?
<\sh> world domination of ubuntu linux / VCS systems / and all software under one roof ,-)
<\sh> ajmitch: shtoomvoip...i need to set up our own repos
<lathiat_> heh
<jblack> Oh, I almost forgot to mention. You guys want to help me help others, because its going to eventually make your jobs a *LOT* easier. 
<lathiat_> \sh: fix i810 alsa on shtoom
<lathiat_> \sh: 2 secs audio delay in the internal audio handling is the suck
<\sh> lathiat_: alsa is a problem...use oss instead ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: rock on :)
<lathiat_> \sh: bah i was told the other way around
<jblack> Oh, and if you bring me people I can convert, I'll buy you beer (thats not a bribe, thats appreciation) :) 
<ajmitch> jblack: I probably already owe you a beer or three
<lathiat_> jblack: will you fly to australia to give it to me? :)
* \sh is converted long ago..
<ajmitch> lathiat_: nah, you need to fly to UBZ
<lathiat_> who'l pay for it? ;p
<jblack> lathiat: Anything is possible. I've already been to australia in the last 6 months, and might go again some other time.
* lathiat_ grins
<ajmitch> you might get sponsored, see the wiki
<\sh> hmmm....
<lathiat_> ajmitch: ooooohhhh, where?
* lathiat_ looks
<ajmitch> UbuntuBelowZero, of course :)
<\sh> Gentoo with a bazaar repository instead of cvs/svn *lol*
<lathiat_> im a sucker for making people pay for me to go places
<lathiat_> ajmitch: oh i mean where on the wiki ;p
<lathiat_> i got lca04 and 05 to pay for me *G*
<jblack> So, anything else for me, guys? 
<lathiat_> jblack: rock on!
<ajmitch> lathiat_: uh, that is the wiki page :)
<jblack> Other than me telling you guys thanks for doing such an incredible job? :) 
<ajmitch> jblack: no, I'll be sure to bug you as I do
<lathiat_> ajmitch: i dont see any info
<\sh> jblack: thx :) I will see what I can do to hype some known devs to switch to baz/bzr...
<lathiat_> oh
<lathiat_> found it
<ajmitch> heh
<jblack> \sh: You're welcome to! Don't forget that I'm here, and that if you come up with somebody that you don't feel like converting, I'm ready to jump in with both feet. 
<\sh> jblack: well...i'm capricorn u know..and I play and test first, before I sell some chocolate cakes to the masses :)
<ajmitch> it'd be nicer if savannah & SF supported arch
<jblack> They already do, indirectly. :) 
<ajmitch> savannah doesn't, afaik
<jblack> I can't let any secrets out too soon, but I wouldn't worry about savannah and SF supporting arch. :) 
<ajmitch> good
<jblack> (don't try and read that between the lines, becuase you'll certainly guess wrong) 
<\sh> hmmm...
<ajmitch> I'll just ask directly then :)
<lathiat_> haha
<\sh> i just read: mark bought SF.net ,-)
<jblack> Think.. launchpad.. bazaar... hct...  
<lathiat_> jblack: what about above the lines?
* lathiat_ laughs at \sh
<ajmitch> ok, I see savannah says they'll support GNU Arch via SFTP soon
<jblack> \sh: Oh, not that I've heard of. 
<lathiat_> lol
<ajmitch> 'ready within a week', posted 2 weeks ago
<\sh> jblack: just joking :)
* ajmitch checks the savannah lists
<jblack> I mean more along the lines of: Will SF and savannah matter a year from now... 
<ajmitch> yes
<\sh> jblack: but I could imagine, that the combination of all system there are on launchpad already could make a good replacement for sf.net/savannah
<ajmitch> I'd say they will
<ajmitch> for the same reasons of inertia that people stick with cvs/svn
<jblack> ajmitch: Well, I'm a leo. That means I'm stubborn and am accustomed to getting people over to my way of thinking. :) 
<ajmitch> and that launchpad is not (yet) free software
<jblack> So give me the cvs guys.. and I'll do my best to help them see the light and migrate across. 
<\sh> and well...yeah...in 4h i have to wake up, will have a shower, and will walk to the office
<ajmitch> jblack: sure, I have a project I'd like converted :)
<\sh> so..gentlemen..I will leave now...
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<jblack> \sh: No problem. Don't shower and still go to the office. THen go into the boss' office and discuss the idea of telecommuting. :) 
<ajmitch> night \sh 
<siretart> gn8 \sh 
<\sh> jblack: thanks again for giving us a short overview of bazaar 1.x/2.x I would like to talk to you later, how I can accomplish some tasks with it..:) 
<\sh> jblack: btw..how old is your child? :)
<jblack> Ok guys. I'm off to dinner. Please don't stop making the distro that lives on my machines. :) 
<ajmitch> see you later, jblack 
<jblack> She is 11 and her name is Laura. You can see pictures of her at http://gallery.linuxguru.net
<\sh> jblack: nice my son is 11 as well :) 
<sistpoty> cya jblack
<jblack> Keep him away from my daughter until she turns 18. :) 
<jblack> (that was meant to be funny) 
<lathiat_> haha
<\sh> jblack: hehe....:) he is a womanizer...half indian
<jblack> THen its not meant to be funny. :) 
<\sh> (but he doesn't realize the fact)
<\sh> all girls in his primary school were stucked on him ;)
<\sh> http://shermann.blogweb.de/uploads/AUT_0250.JPG
<\sh> this is him :) 
<jblack> She says he's cute. 
<jblack> I told her that she's not allowed to meet him for another 7 years.
<\sh> hahaha
<lathiat_> haha
<jblack> whoops. 18:30. Hope to hear from you guys soon. :) 
<\sh> jblack: see u around :)
<jblack> btw, where do you guys normally meet, so that I can stalk you down? 
<jblack> meet/hang out
<\sh> jblack: ubuntu-motu/-devel 
<jblack> Ok. I'm there. :) 
<\sh> jblack: jabber is also good sh@linux-server.org <- my jabber id
<jblack> I typically don't run im clients. The away status thing makes me feel watched. 
<lathiat_> jblack: turn off auto-away :)
<lathiat_> or set yourself permanantly away ;p
<\sh> jblack: well...I'm installing tomorrow a jabber client on my cell that's why,-)
<jblack> I've tried that. kopete is borked.
<\sh> jblack: psi or on gnome: gajim 
<lathiat_> tahts because your one of those kde users
<lathiat_> gajim is good
<\sh> lathiat_: tststs
<jblack> Yeah. I was the first ubuntu kde user.
<\sh> jblack: for jabber: use psi
<\sh> nothing else
<\sh> for gnome: gajim 
<jblack> Tried psi. there was something about it that I didn't like
<\sh> then w8 for kajim ,-)
<lathiat_> haha
<\sh> lathiat_: no joke...I will do it 
<\sh> kde jabber client in python
<lathiat_> why not like
<lathiat_> just use gajim
<jblack> I'd rather a virtual irc interface. ;) 
<lathiat_> jblack: bitlbee
<lathiat_> jblack: does that
<lathiat_> does for msn and icq too
<jblack> man, free software is awesome. 
<lathiat> yeh
<lathiat> tis isnt it
<\sh> anyways...sleeping now...thx guys :)
<lathiat> bah sleep
<lathiat> is for the weak
<\sh> lathiat: wrapup at the end of the week?
<lathiat> \sh: hm?
<\sh> motu meeting
<\sh> anyways...need to go...cu later today 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ || 25 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board || 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ || 26 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board || 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU
<dholbach> hey
<dholbach> does anybody know who else (apart from ogra) is an adminstrator for the launchpad motu group?
<dholbach> oops
<Mithrandir> ECHAN? :-)
<lathiat> haha
<dholbach> yep :)
<dholbach> ECOFFEE as well :)
<\sh> dholbach: anybody?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Seveas] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 26 Aug 14:00 UTC: Doc Team | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board | 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-08-31
<jsgotangco> great
<jsgotangco> we're only 2?
<ajmitch> hi jsgotangco 
<ajmitch> docteam?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> wtf
<jjesse> where is everyone? 
<jsgotangco> they requested 14UTC on friday and no one comes
<jjesse> or does no one have anything to contribute?
<jsgotangco> jjesse: that is sad
<jsgotangco> if that's the case
<jjesse> jsgotangco: i agree it is sad, there has been like no movement on the kubuntu docs except what i have done
<jjesse> people have dropped off :(
* jsgotangco wonders what must he do to pull off this thing again
<jsgotangco> jjesse: sorry if that is the case, I have been busy with other stuff...
<Mez> hehe :D
<jjesse> no worries jsgotangco 
<Mez> at least you had a better turn out than my last NUN meeting
<jsgotangco> the Edubuntu project is taking too much time
<Mez> last time, I had noone turn up
* mpt hadn't heard anything about a meeting
<mdke> hi all
<jsgotangco> ooo
* jsgotangco hugs mdke
<mdke> sorry I'm a little late
<jsgotangco> mpt: sorry about that, my fault i didnt send an email :(
<jsgotangco> mdke: we're only 3
<mdke> ah
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<mdke> so what's the plan?
<jsgotangco> we can't make a decision
<jsgotangco> i can just blabber about what im doing
<jsgotangco> and let jjesse talk as well
<jsgotangco> other than the currently murderous laptop testing i am involved, i am also being mauled by edubuntu...
<mdke> how is edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> the cookbook is doing well, i am awaiting highvoltage's troubleshooting guide
<jsgotangco> we can't meet up with doc freeze but ogra is ok with it
<mdke> is it getting a bit of testing on some networks?
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> that's cool
<jsgotangco> but there's a snag on some dhcp issues
<jsgotangco> other than that, ogra was a prototype with gartoon icons and all
<mpt> ogra is a prototype? cool
<jsgotangco> hey jeffsch
<jsgotangco> s/was/has
* mpt looks forward to ogra 1.0
<jeffsch> howdy
<mpt> :-)
<mdke> hi there jeffsch 
<jsgotangco> christ i cant focus on the meeting big brother is on tv
<jsgotangco> other than that, the only big project for edubuntu is the cookbook
<jsgotangco> but its so hard because im the only one doing it at the moment
<jsgotangco> im not complaining really just saying the current situation
* mdke nods
<jsgotangco> Quick tour is being done by Burgundavia
<jsgotangco> he plans to do it in HTML
<jsgotangco> understandable though, it should be formatted accordingly
<mdke> i would like to know, where is the spec for the quick tour?
<jsgotangco> there's no spec really, but there's a draft
<mpt> jsgotangco: Try the power button
<jsgotangco> QuickTourDraft
<mdke> i heard a lot about a "respec" of the quickguide, but I never actually saw a spec
<jsgotangco> mpt: no way, they are playing in the pool
<mdke> does anyone have the ip of the docteam linode handy?
<jsgotangco> i don't even know it!
* jsgotangco checks gmail
<mdke> it starts with 65
<mdke> ;)
<jsgotangco> 65.19.178.132
<mdke> ty
<jsgotangco> so there that's what im gonna say about what i've been up to
<mdke> we still need a domain name for that
<jsgotangco> mdke: you have root access?
<jsgotangco> jjesse: your turn if you're ready
<mdke> yes, myself and henrik
<jsgotangco> jjesse: ?
* jsgotangco wishes mgalvin was here he can explain further the packaging stuff
<jsgotangco> guys?
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> yesterday james was on the room
<jsgotangco> (jblack)
<jsgotangco> he was selling baz to us
<jsgotangco> good thing a good number of people weere online
<jsgotangco> im not so sure if the others were convinced
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: ?
<jjesse> sorry
<jjesse> boss was here
<jsgotangco> oh alright
<jjesse> the question i need to know is what is going to be breezy's package management program?
<jsgotangco> mdke: ?
<jsgotangco> jjesse: for kubuntu?
<mdke> jsgotangco, sup?
<jjesse> yes for kubuntu
<jsgotangco> jjesse: did you ask Riddell or amu?
<jjesse> no i didn't kow who to ask
<jsgotangco> ok you can ask Riddell he's lead on all things Kubuntu with Amu
<jjesse> thanks i will ask then i can make the changes
<jsgotangco> sorry i don't know either
<jsgotangco> ( i havent been using kde for a while)
<jsgotangco> jjesse: what doc were you doing again?
<jjesse> kuserguide but kquickguide will need to be changed as well
<jjesse> if the package manager changes
<jjesse> we refrence kynaptic throughout all of the kubuntu docs
<jsgotangco> jjesse: ok i promise to review the doc this weekend for typos and consistency but i cannot promise to change the text
<jjesse> no problems. i will change what needs to be changed just let me know
<jsgotangco> alright, i will ask the kubuntu people as well, but you should try asking them yourself as well so they'll know who they are working with :)
<jsgotangco> Riddell is also open to reviewing the doc i talked to him before
<jsgotangco> yay
<jeffsch> is anyone reviewing the faqguide? (other than me)
<jjesse> ok i will ask them directly and ask for help if i am not getting a response
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: i did, it's quite painful to read it in yelp :)
<Burgundavia> *yawn*
<jsgotangco> can it be exported to html?
<jsgotangco> the doc is profiled btw
<jeffsch> yes. cd ubuntu-doc/gnome
<jeffsch> make faq
<jeffsch> that will build all versions
<jjesse> also i'm trying to convice apokryphos who helps a lot of people on #kubuntu to help reviewing the docs
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jeffsch> you can make faqi386 to build only i386 version
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> can we put the build instructions in a wiki page?
<mdke> i also hope to have a look at the faqguide
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: i will try to find the time. no promises though
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: no worries, i will build the docs later so i know what to do too
* jsgotangco haven't been attentive on the script options lately
<jeffsch> how often do the links from DocteamProjects get updated?
<jsgotangco> mdke: ?
<mdke> about twice a week
<mdke> but we really should be using the linode
<mdke> that updates every day
<jsgotangco> i thought the previews are already done in linode?
<jeffsch> how long before we get a name for the linode
<mdke> jeffsch, your guess is as good as mine, we've been waiting ages on elmo
<jjesse> can we move the previews of the kubuntu docs there as well, they haven't been updated in awhile :(
<jeffsch> maybe we can just go ahead and use the ip for now. change it to the domain name if and when it comes
<mdke> jjesse, it is all there already
<mdke> jeffsch, yeah i think that may be the best idea
<jsgotangco> it would have been faster if we got a .tk domain :)
<jsgotangco> or i paid $15 for a .us one
<mdke> or we could just add a dyndns domain
<mdke> for free
<mdke> i don't mind doing that
<jjesse> hmmm then we need to change the link on docteam projects cause the preview goes to the http://lnix.net/~froud/ site which hasn't been updated
<mdke> jjesse, yeah, we are still waiting on a domain name for the linode server
<mdke> ok i'll set up a dyndns for now
<jsgotangco> let's do the dyndns now
<mdke> ok
<mdke> any preferences?
<jsgotangco> let's see elmo's response
<jsgotangco> what does he mean by that?
<jsgotangco> ok we settle this later
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: you got an update?
<Burgundavia> quicktour should go into HTML by today or tomorrow
<Burgundavia> then we can start taking screenshots
<jsgotangco> have you tried today's build its pretty solid
<mdke> Burgundavia, where is the spec for the respecced quicktour?
<Burgundavia> in my head?
<mdke> i see
<Burgundavia> cool new features from Breezy and cool features from Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> pretty simple doc actually
<mdke> so is this a docteam project at all?
<Burgundavia> yes
<jeffsch> Burgundavia: publish the spec. we cant help you if we don't know the point of the doc
<mdke> quite
<Burgundavia> jeffsch, mdke ok
<mdke> it's not a docteam project until then
<Burgundavia> I will put it at the top of QuickTourDraft
<mdke> you just said "i've respecced the quickguide", but we never saw it
<jsgotangco> ok?
<Burgundavia> done
<jsgotangco> ?
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> 1 sentence?
<Burgundavia> it is a very simple spec
<Burgundavia> for a simple doc
<jsgotangco> ahrr
<jsgotangco> ok anything more?
<jsgotangco> this is a terribly boring meeting
<Burgundavia> where are we at for shipping docs?
<jsgotangco> the lesson of the story here is next time, we do a spec at the very start
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> it was my mistake not to do it before
<mdke> how can others contribute to quicktour?
<mdke> on the wiki?
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> the html should be going into svn RSN
<mdke> do you think it would be good to send a call for contributions?
<Burgundavia> sort of did
<jsgotangco> i asked Burgundavia if it can be shown to the world 1 month before release
<jsgotangco> sort of a sneak preview
<jeffsch> so we have quicktour and faqguide that we should be working on
<jeffsch> we need to have both done by sept 8, right?
<Burgundavia> yes
<jeffsch> so far myself and mdke have said we will be reviewing faqguide
<jeffsch> we need more volunteers if we are going to have it done in time
<Burgundavia> I may get a chance to
<mdke> rob will help
<jeffsch> see the changes i made to the first few questions in tips and tricks to see how things should be
<jeffsch> as it is now, the faq guide style is curt
<jeffsch> not good for new users
<Burgundavia> curt?
<jeffsch> it was written to get the info out there fast, but now it needs to be made more presentable
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<jsgotangco> jeffsch: that's the problem. UbuntuHelp should fix that but its not really ready for primetime
<jeffsch> yes. after breezy we can deal with ubuntuhelp
<mdke> well the faqguide can be made presentable I'm sure
<jeffsch> right now though, we need faqguide to appear more friendly
<jeffsch> mdke: yes
<jsgotangco> we only have 2 weeks
<jsgotangco> can it be revised on time?
<mdke> we can try.
<jeffsch> we should get as much done as possible
<mdke> if we can also ask rob^ to amend some of the style, this will help because he spends lots of time working on it
<jeffsch> as long as he isn't sick of it by now :)
<mdke> ;)
<jsgotangco> he already put it up for review so i guess that's a go signal for us
<jeffsch> so me and mdke will be reviewing. anyone else? jsgotangco?
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> im up for it
<jsgotangco> rob^ hasn't been updating for a while so i guess its a go
<jeffsch> ok. i have started at the back. someone take the front, and someone take the middle
<mdke> yes the relevant sections are marked for review
<mdke> see the status report
<jeffsch> in the faqguide, when you come across something like (for eg) Read Q10.1, change it to what it really is
<jeffsch> so Read Q 10.1 would become "Restart GNOME. (See Q 10.1)
<mdke> i've set up ubuntu-doc.ath.cx for the linode
<mdke> is that acceptable?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jeffsch> that's not the permanent one though, right?
<mdke> no the permanent one should be doc.ubuntu.com
<jeffsch> so why not just use the ip?
<jeffsch> is the ip going to change?
<jsgotangco> its a long story
<jeffsch> np. just curious.
<mdke> the ip shouldn't change
<mdke> it seems there is a problem with pointing doc.ubuntu.com to the linode
<mdke> elmo and henrik will sort it out together i hope
<jeffsch> ok. are we done yet?
<mdke> i'm off now
<jsgotangco> alright anythign else
<Burgundavia> nope
<jsgotangco> we can do in the list
<jsgotangco> don't forget to greet me happy birthday
<mdke> happy birthday
<jeffsch> jsgotangco: happy birthday
<jsgotangco> doh
<jsgotangco> errr baz?
<Burgundavia> best to discuss that post-Sept 8th
<jeffsch> let's keep baz discussion on #ubuntu-doc for now
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> anything else?
<jsgotangco> alright were cool thanks all
<jeffsch> c ya
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-01
<LaschW> Anyone noticed #ubuntu is broken?
<LaschW> All logins are rejected 'you are banned'
<cyphase> hey everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-02
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> herbert.freenode.net
<cyphase> hey everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-03
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille_] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board | 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU | 9 Sep 14:00 UTC: Doc Team |
<Lathiat> Mon Aug 29 10:32:38 UTC 2005
* rob^ looks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:irc.freenode.net] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 30 Aug 20:00 UTC: Community Council | Sept 2 12:00 UTC : Edubuntu Update Meeting | 6 Sep 20:00 UTC: Tech Board | 7 Sep 22:00 UTC: MOTU | 9 Sep 14:00 UTC: Doc Team |
<Ubuntu-Pk>  hi, Pakistani LoCo Team here
<ivoks> :P)
<cyphase> hey everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-09-04
<Lathiat> Tue Aug 30 10:08:53 UTC 2005
<Seveas> that's now :)
<ajmitch> I believe you're right :)
<Seveas> Tue Aug 30 10:16:30 UTC 2005
<Seveas> correction, that's now ;)
<ajmitch> and just as irrelevant :P
<Lathiat> haha
<Seveas> ajmitch, that's irrelevant :)
<dand> hi. is the CC meeting still on?
<thoreauputic> dand: afaik yes
<thoreauputic> in about an hour?
<thoreauputic> Tue Aug 30 19:02:34 UTC 2005
<dand> thoreauputic: alright, my bad :)
<thoreauputic> I did the same - looked at London time instead of UTC :)
<dand> well, for some reason I thought UTC == GMT...
<thoreauputic> dand: yeah - but it isn't because BST != UTC
<Mitario> isn't london gmt+1?
<thoreauputic> daylight saving
<thoreauputic> Mitario: right
<thoreauputic> Mitario: at the moment
<Mitario> yeah
<Mitario> yeah in winter just GMT right?
<thoreauputic> yup
<Mitario> oki :)
* nmsa is away: ZZZzzz...
<JanC> GMT & UTC are not exactly the same
<JanC> there can be an up to 1 second difference  :)
<Mitario> ooh right gmt is hh:mm:ss, and UTC hh:mm:ss:ms right? :)
<JanC> no, it's based on another fysical fenomenon IIRC
<Mitario> ah
<JanC> because of that sometimes 23:59:60 UTC can exist
<JanC> leap seconds to synchronise   :)
<dand> JanC: I wish that was the cause to my confusion :)
<JanC> GMT is astronomical, UTC is based on an atom clock
<JanC> dand: yeah, it's only leap seconds, not leap hours  :)
<mako> greetings everyone
<thoreauputic> hi
<rbelem> hi mako 
<Seveas> hi mako 
<Seveas> will the rest of the CC be here this time? ;)
<mako> elmo mwill be
<mako> elmo sms'ed to remind me since i've been mostly out of touch the last couple days
<Seveas> cool
* mako is being oriented at MIT
<Seveas> how's it going?
<mako> i'm very impressed with the infrastructure.. really cool interactions between the kerberos system, client web certificates for everything, id cards, etc
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> mako: who do i have to contact for upload rights (i've been motu since may)
<mako> also, my advisor (a big ubuntu fan and user) who is also the media lab director asked me to write an official ubuntu configuration document for the media lab :)
<mako> ivoks: tech board
<Seveas> mako, awesome :)
<Mitario> hi everyone
* Seveas has been assembling an Ubuntu cluster at my work (University of Amsterdam), they are very impressed :)
<mako> Mitario: thanks for making it
<ivoks> mako: um... i've been approved, but there were problems with CoC... ah, never mind... i'll talk with elmo
<Mitario> mako, sure :)
<Mitario> ivoks, elmo told me/slomo to do it after he has his queued work of the last few days finished
<Mitario> ivoks, just spam/ping him some extra times :)
<ivoks> Mitario: hehe
<ivoks> Mitario: ok, then that's it
<Mitario> I don't see he'll have time tonight :) but..
<Mitario> it's "soon" :P
<Mitario> mako, who will be 3rd?
<slomo> Mitario: but he should have time sometime soon... can't be that ivoks is waiting for upload rights for 3 months now ;)
<ivoks> slomo: yep, that's right :)
<Mitario> slomo, very true
<Mitario> but since he's the only one who can do it :S
<pitti> Hi $(find -type person)
<Mitario> pitti, i'm not a person
<ivoks> :)
<Mitario> i'm a slimy green muscus
<pitti> Mitario: then please don't feel greeted :-)
<pitti> eeks
<Mitario> ;-)
<sistpoty> does anyone know who holds copyright for/which license the ubuntu logo on www.ubuntu.com is?
* pitti fetches the slimy green muscus gun
<sistpoty> (just want to set the record for revu2 straight ;))
* ivoks grabs a chair...
<ogra> mako, edubuntu is nice for lab environments too ;)
* ivoks lights a jo...
* Mitario should try out edubuntu on his school
<Mitario> ivoks, i bet that's illegal in your country :p
<mako> ogra: this is a slightly different kind of lab :)
<ivoks> Mitario: what? a jo? :>
<Mitario> :)
<mako> Mitario: sabdfl i suspect
<Mitario> mako, ok thanks
<ogra> mako, ahh, come on... every lab needs a thin client environment... tell that to your lab director ;)
<Mitario> is edubuntu possible to do samba/ldap authentication?
<Mitario> as in: is it easy to setup?
<ivoks> none LDAP is easy to set up :/
<ogra> nope, not for this release
<Mitario> ok
<Mitario> would be cool to have like apt-get install ldap-support -> Server? *fill in host*, -> User OU's? *fill in groups* done :)
<ogra> this one is aimed at a single classroom ltsp environment... everything beyond that is breezy+1
<ogra> while breezy+1 shall cover a complete school... there ldap will be necessary
<ivoks> i'm very interested to see that...
<Lathiat> what about smb? that would be very usefull for integration into existing networks
<Mitario> ogra, cool!
<Mitario> ogra, we are really /dying/ to convert from windows xp
<ogra> yeah
<Mitario> or at least, to really investigate the possibility
<ivoks> but this should be part of ubuntu, imho
<Mitario> hmm
<Mitario> you could argue about that :)
<ivoks> i have plans implementing this scenario in companys
<ogra> everything done for edubuntu is part of ubuntu
<ivoks> and they don't want to see classroom bacground :)
<ivoks> ogra: that's right, yes...
<Mitario> ogra, could you spam my school with some edubuntu CDs when they're there? ;-)
<Mitario> hi elmo, Nafallo 
<Nafallo> Mitario: morning
<thoreauputic> hi apokryphos :)
<Mitario> evening ;-)
<apokryphos> thoreauputic: hola!
<hno73> Nafallo: afton :)
<ivoks> 'evening
<apokryphos> thoreauputic: just made it; had to use blasted Windoze to get a dvd of the wedding :)
<ivoks> we are one big happy familly :)
<thoreauputic> apokryphos: oh dear ! ;-)
<Nafallo> hno73: yea, that to :-)
* sistpoty rushes to the fridge to grab a beer
<bddebian> sistpoty: Grab me one too :-)
<Mitario> sistpoty, can you grab me one?
<Mitario> haha :)
<bddebian> jinx ;)
<ivoks> make that 4 cans :)
<slomo> hi everybody
<Nafallo> ivoks: baah! CANs are evil ;-)
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<ivoks> Nafallo: in absence of anything better... i would settle with can :)
<mako> elmo: so, sabdfl?
<Nafallo> ivoks: ;-)
<Mitario> get mark out of his chopper
<elmo> mako: he said he'd be here.  I pinged him twenty minutes ago, and just rang him, no answer :(
<Mitario> eh, do you actually spell it that way?
<sistpoty> hehe, Mitario and bddebian... prost!
<mako> alright
<Mitario> sistpoty, :)
<Mitario> oh well, soda then
<elmo> mako: shall we give him ten minutes, see if he turns up?
* bddebian grabs a fifth of Jack
<elmo> and/or get on anything we can do without a vote
<Mitario> hi mdz 
<mdz> hi
<mdz> mako: waiting for sabdfl?
<mako> yes
<bddebian> Hello mdz
<sistpoty> hi mdz
<bddebian> mdz: Is there still some discussion about having the TB meeting earlier next time?
<mdz> bddebian: there is no active discussion, no
<bddebian> Oh OK
<mdz> but I am open to proposals
<bddebian> No, I just missed the last meeting and Jeff Bailey pinged me
<mdz> mako: did he say he would be here?
<mako> evidently, yes
<ivoks> ok... anybody alive? :)
<ogra> nope
<bddebian> Wow, this is a hopping meeting :-)
<elmo> sending one more txt...
* Lathiat coughs and splutters
<ivoks> yay, finally some action :)
* Mitario calls an ambulance
<mako> Lathiat: if you want to cough up mark shuttleworth
<Lathiat> mako: well, i can try...
<Mitario> well he was late the previous time? :)
* bddebian coughs up a hairball
<ogra> bddebian, meow
<mdz> mako: did you SMS him?
<mdz> oh, elmo did
<mdz> mako: there is still a quorum without him, isn't there?
<elmo> no
<ivoks> does Mark have a wife? :)
<elmo> kamion couldn't make it either
<ogra> ivoks, GF
<ogra> afaik
<ivoks> ok, that explains...
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> ogra: :-)
<ivoks> give him few more minutes then :)
<mako> mdz: i guess we've never really gone over it.. but i've always assumed it was 3/4
<mako> mdz: you guys have three people so it's easier
<bddebian> mako: Did I ever get an OK on my signed CoC?
* ivoks things now is great time to talk about upload rights *blink* *blink* :)
<ivoks> ah... s/things/thinks/
<mako> ivoks: what do you want to know?
<mako> ivoks: didn't i already tell you taht was a tech board meeting issue?
<ivoks> mako: ok, sorry
<Mitario> mako, yes it's not a CC directed question
<mako> well, the answer is talk to the tb about that and we've already said that :)
* mako sighs
<mako> where is mark
<Mitario> mako, yes, and TB says elmo should do it :) so we're just waiting for elmo finish his prioritized stuff
<mako> ah, ok
<mako> so techboard has approved it already
<ivoks> yes, 3 months ago :)
<mdz> mako: approved what?
<Mitario> yes for some people here
<Mitario> slomo, ivoks, me sistpoty
<slomo> mako: and it would be nice to know if our signed CoC are ok... so elmo doesn't tell us it isn't when he finally has time ;)
<mako> mdz: approved upload privledges for some people
<sistpoty> nope, /me is no MOTU yet
<Mitario> (maybe more?)
<elmo> no, the problem is CoCs
<mako> ah, ok
<Mitario> sistpoty, ah ok
<elmo> I've mailed most, if not all of you about this
<Seveas> (i'm here, sorry i'm late -- mother in law called with an emotional emergency)
* Nafallo looks for smurfix
<mdz> elmo: launchpad problem?
<mako> there is a new webbased system
<Mitario> elmo, not yet me
<Nafallo> anyone know if he will be here?
<Lathiat> Seveas: its ok he havent started anyway ;p
<Mitario> i've signed my CoC some days ago
<mako> which is a lot easier for everyone involved 
<Mitario> and it says I signed it in launchpad
<elmo> Mitario: when did you mail upload/keyring@ ?
<Seveas> Lathiat, really?
<mdz> mako: totally
<mako> Nafallo: he said he would be
<slomo> elmo: yes... and you got a mail with a signed CoC attached... err... 2 mails... and it's even in launchpad
<Mitario> elmo, just after last TB
<Lathiat> Seveas: no not really we already finished
<elmo> mako: we're using that now?
<Nafallo> mako: nice, thanx :-)
<Mitario> elmo, so that must've been last friday or something
<mdz> mako: well, it's easier for people signing CoCs anyway
<elmo> Mitario: dude, it's been a bank holiday weekend in the UK
<mdz> mako: no idea if it's easier for elmo ;-)
<ondrej> is there still a chance that sabdfl will show up?
<Mitario> it says Ubuntite!  Yes on launchpad
<ivoks> elmo: i got your mail then, and i had sent fixed CoC to mako... since then no word from anyone... so, I don't know is it ok now or it isn't and if it isn't, what's wrong
<Mitario> elmo, yeah no probs :)
<mako> elmo: i'm still updating the file with people that email me and emailing them if it doesnt' work
<mako> elmo: but i was thinking that people were using the launchpad system as well.. i don't think i've told anyone to use it but i assumed you were looking at it
<bddebian> So if I'm an Ubuntite on launchpad, I'm OK?
<mako> bddebian: if you're an ubuntite on LP it means you're ok
<Mitario> Oh I actually thought the launchpad way was the default :)
<Seveas> Mitario, it is now, but it is very new
<ogra> bddebian, youre a MOTU ... just not technically yet ;)
<Mitario> Seveas, how new is new?
<Mitario> ogra, same here :)
<Seveas> matter of weeks
<Mitario> Seveas, ah right, so i guess I signed in the new system
<bddebian> ogra: I am?
<mako> ok, to be an ubuntite, you need to need to (a) sign a coc and (b) be in the strongly connected set
<Mitario> by gpg key is under Active Signatures in LP
* Seveas actually was a member on launchpad before uploading a CoC :) 
<mako> sorry
<ogra> bddebian, come on ...
<mako> you need to do a
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> ogra: What?
<mako> to be an ubuntuite, you only need to do (a).. to be a member or an uploader, you need to do (a) and (b)
<ogra> bddebian, as soon as the technical part of approval is done ;)
<mako> as i understand it, LP checks (a) only
<bddebian> ogra: Oh :-)  I honestly don't know if I am deserving.
<Mitario> mako,  how do you add yourself to the 'strongly connected set'?
<slomo> bddebian: sure... you do
<Seveas> Mitario, have someone in it sign your key :)
<elmo> and sign theirs
<bddebian> Mitario: Have someone sign your key that is in the set
<Mitario> ah right :)
<ogra> bddebian, in my opinion you do... looks like jbailey thinks the same ;)
<ivoks> Mitario: you have to meet in person people that would sign your PGP
<sistpoty> bddebian++
<Seveas> (probably that already happened, if not - ping me for a sig)
<bddebian> ogra: Bah, what does Jeff know ;-P
<ogra> heh
<Lathiat> whats 'strongly
<mako> Mitario: um.. you don't add yourself.. you must signe keys with someone in the strongly connected set
<Mitario> yeah ok
<ogra> Mitario, visit Treenaks ;)
<ivoks> that strongly is blur for me too
<Mitario> oh really trust level 5 aka IRL?
<mako> i've communicated this to everyone who has signed me a coc signed with a non-connected key
<mako> i even have a template :)
<Lathiat> mako: i didnt hear about it :(
<Seveas> lol :)
<Mitario> heh
<elmo> ok, I think we should declarle sabdfl a no show and get on with what we can without quoroum
<Lathiat> nor did i see it on the wiki
<mako> i do it alot :)
<ivoks> ok, i didn't get template :)
<elmo> (or alternatively define quorum to be and mako ;-P)
<Mitario> mako, not to me yet though can you send it again?
<Lathiat> i'll go pay jamesh a visit or something :)
<mako> Lathiat: that would be good
<mako> Mitario: that's fine
<Mitario> mako, thanks
<mako> it is documented on the website
* mako goes to find the link
<slomo> mako: but my key is in the strong set and i got really no answer from you... just from elmo that he doesn't get anything from you
<Mitario> probably just some slight communication problems
<ivoks> slomo: get in line :)
<Seveas> makos mailserver has a black hole ;)
<Mitario> btw is being in the DD keyring also enough?
<Mitario> since most ubuntu developers are also DD's ;)
<mako> any person wishing to become a member AND maintainer for packages only in ``universe`` needs only to sign the code of conduct and mail it to Benjamin Mako Hill, have a GPG key signed in the strongly connected set, and obtain the approval of...
* Mitario isn't really familier with the whole pgp/gpg concept yet
<mako> Seveas: i wish dude.. i have way more mail that i can deal with :()
<mako> Mitario: yes
<Lathiat> mako: heh
<slomo> Mitario: when you're in the DD keyring you should be fine... hm, what's your key id?
<mako> Mitario: if you are in the DD keyring, it means you almost always have a key signed by someone else
<mako> that is in the SCS
<Mitario> well my key is signed by paulvt who's DD
<Lathiat> slomo: how do you determien strongly connected, connceted with top 'trust' to someone else in the community? is there a maximum path length?
<Mitario> and bij sjoerd simons
* Seveas thinks: I'll writw this all on a wikipage and put a link on the CC agenda page
<Mitario> of dbus debian fame
<Mitario> and such
<mako> Seveas: thanks. send me a link the page when you have a draft up.. i'll look it over
<Seveas> didn't know there was so much confusion about it :)
<Seveas> mako, k
<Seveas> anyhow, shall we start on the non-approval things?
<Mitario> slomo, 0xB954EDF9 btw
<slomo> Mitario: ok, you are ;)
<Mitario> I am?
<Mitario> wohoo!
<Seveas> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/B954EDF9.html
<bddebian> Damnit, I can't get into launchpad
<Seveas> pathfinder is a great plasce to find this out :)
<ivoks> slomo: and me? 0xD3BDA225
<mako> Seveas: yes, that is a very good website for tracking this sort of thing
<Mitario> slomo, so that means I'm ok?
<Seveas> ivoks, go to the url i gave and substitue your key id...
<Seveas> Mitario, you're ok
<Mitario> Seveas, ok thanks
<slomo> Mitario, ivoks: yes... when mako gives an ok to your signed CoC and elmo adds you key to the keyring ;)
<Seveas> but getting more sigs is not bad, ping me if you're in Amsterdam ;)
<Mitario> slomo, heh ok :)
<Mitario> slomo, i'll sign the CoC again
* mako nods to Seveas 
<Mitario> Seveas, DutchUbuntuSpurt? :)
<slomo> Mitario: same for me... maybe something happens this time ;)
<ivoks> Mitario: we have only 3 people beetwean :)
<bddebian> Ah, I am an Ubuntite! W00t :-)
<mako> bddebian: :)
<Mitario> mako, should I send you the signed mail? or is being LP signed enough?
<bddebian> But apparently I have no karma. :'-(
<ivoks> bddebian: you want to tell me that signing CoC on launchpad didn't result in system error?
<Mitario> ivoks, it didn't here..
<ivoks> of course, only i get that result :))
<bddebian> ivoks: I did it a while ago and it worked.
<mako> Mitario: LP is enough.. if you want me to look at it, send me an email telling me to look at LP :))
<ivoks> i tried that... hm.. around 30 times :)
<Mitario> mako, heh ok, so you can tell elmo to add me to universe uploaders? :)
<mako> Mitario: well, i can tell him your coc is sorted.. 
<Mitario> mako, yeah ok
<mako> Mitario: if the TB has approved you, you should be fine
<Mitario> mako, yeah last week
<Mitario> mako, you where there :)
<mbreit> mako: do we have to be members to get upload rights?
<ondrej> mako: is there a chance that new members approval will happen today?
<mako> Mitario: at the TB meeting? i don't pay a huge amount of attention there :)
<Mitario> mako, hehe :)
<Mitario> mako, yeah because of the incomplete CC of 2 weeks ago
<ogra> ondrej, not if sabdfl doesnt show up
<mako> ondrej: mark said he would make it
<ivoks> page not found
<Seveas> obviously he did not :)
<ivoks> uh
<elmo> mako: I think we should give up on that dude
<ondrej> ok, i'll wait for some more time...
<mako> ondrej: normally, this isn't a problem but kamion is on an extended leave right now so we need mark..  and his available it often sketchy
<elmo> it's been 40 mins, and he still hasn't responded even to say "I'm coming"
<ogra> elmo, lol
<mako> alright
<mako> grrr
<mako> ok
<mako> hah :)
<ogra> heh
<sabdfl> hi all
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> speak of the devil
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> hey sabdfl 
<sabdfl> apologies for my tardiness
<Mitario> hi sabdfl
<mako> sabdfl: we *just* gave up on you like 30 seconds ago
<bddebian> Apology NOT accepted ;-)
<sabdfl> tsf meeting dragged on
<Seveas> welcome sabdfl 
<ogra> woah, still ? 
<dholbach> sabdfl: hi mark :)
<Seveas> let's get this thing going!
<ondrej> rbelem: you go first, I am second :-)
<Seveas> \begin{PublicServiceAnnouncement}
<Seveas> Hello everybody, welcome to the Community Council Meeting. The meeting will start in a few minutes (hopefully). The agenda for today can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda please stick to the agenda and don't go off-topic. All member candidates, make sure your wikipage is up-to-date and prepare a 3 line introduction (which you will have to give in this channel) describing your past contributions to Ubuntu, your plans and y
<Seveas> our vision of the Ubuntu feature. Make sure you ALREADY are on the launchpad Ubuntu members page and that you upload a signed copy of the CoC as soon as possible. Everybody whi has an item on the agenda please prepare a few lines describing it so you can easily paste it in the channel later to give everybody an overview.
<Seveas> \end{PublicServiceAnnouncement} 
<rbelem> ondrej: me?? ;-)
<mako> Seveas: thanks again :)
<mako> alright, anybody from the loco team in romania?
<Seveas> And now for the record, let's all state our names
* Lathiat = Trent Lloyd
* Seveas -eq Dennis Kaarsemaker
<dand> mako: me
* mako is Benjamin Mako Hill
* sistpoty == Stefan Potyra
<ondrej> rbelem: are you still candidate for Ubuntu member, aren't you?
<mako> dand: cool :)
* Mitario = Michiel Sikkes
<bojicas> hello, silviu from romanian loco team
* sabdfl is Mark Shuttleworth
* pef is Loic Pefferkorn
* ondrej is Ondrej Sury
* ivoks is Ante Karamatic
* mbreit is Moritz Breit
* bddebian is Barry deFreese
* dand is Dan Damian
* thoreauputic is Peter Garrett
* dholbach is Daniel Holbach
* apokryphos is Francis Giannaros
* ogra is Oliver Grawert
* bojicas is Silviu Bojica
* pitti == Martin Pitt
<mako> bojicas, dand: tell us briefly about your loco team.. what you've done.. what you're going to do
<dand> alright
<jdthood> * jdthood = Thomas Hood
<dand> our team page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanianTeam, the links back there sum up our online presence
* slomo is Sebastian Drge
* hno73 is Henrik Nilsen Omma
<dand> we've only been active for a month now, however we want to let everyone know we exist as a community
<dand> ...hoping that we'll eventually become an official team
* sabdfl needs to learn Romanian :-)
<mako> dand: great.. are you all based in a single city or are you geographically dispersed within romania?
<dand> i have a few paragraphs prepared... here we go
<mako> dand: cool, paste away
<dand> mako: we're mostly dispersed
<dand> bojicas and myself would like to say a few words about the things we've been doing (and plan to), with regard to "country coverage", i18n, docs and website
<dand> country coverage: people here already support/advocate ubuntu independently, but the efforts are fairly sporadic and generally lack proper promotion. our short-term goal is to reach these guys and establish local contacts in most cities
<dand> there are 67 members on our mailing list, 58 on the forum and our local contacts list counts 7 people nominated so far
<dand> i18n: gnome 2.12 will be the first release 100% translated into Romanian, we contributed to that
<dand> our next goal is openoffice and we're trying to jumpstart that with a translation marathon this saturday (working with a local LUG I'm also involved in)
<Seveas> impressive!
<dholbach> WOW, that sounds awesome :)
<ogra> wow
<sabdfl> dand: looks very good. i have a question for you. would it be useful to have an "Ubuntu Eastern Europe" metastructure for you to work with other loco teams from nearby countries?
<dand> ok, that's basically it from my side... bojicas...
<Seveas> web site is looking nice too
<bojicas> we have translated the "unofficial ubuntu 5.04 starter guide" (ro.ubuntuguide.org) and we have started a section of howtos in our wiki page (wiki.ubuntu.ro)
* mako nods to Seveas 
<bojicas> on this side, our main goal is to put this ideas together into a beginners manual - in a printer friendly fashion, and starting with ubuntu breezy, to have a printout to be distributed along with the cds
<dand> sabdfl: if it's happening at a translation-level (there's been a great conference in Beograd), I can see this happening at docs/promotional level
<Seveas> bojicas, keep an eye on the docteam - they will release a faq + beginners guide soon
<bojicas> ok
<ivoks> nope, just fingerprint
<Seveas> do you have any plans for software freedom day?
<bojicas> about website: www.ubuntu.ro is mainly based on www.ubuntulinux.org web site infrastructure, based on plone - content management system (general subjects: ubuntu (ubuntu.ro), community, support)
<mako> bojicas: great :)
<bojicas> we have also direct links to wiki.ubuntu.ro (for fast moving documents) and to forum.ubuntu.ro
<sabdfl> i've been wondering how we could make the loco teams scalable, and thinking about regional coordinating groups. just not sure if that would be overweight, or necessary
<dand> Seveas: we've already contacted the two SFD romanian teams, one of them will have to delay the event for october and we got no response from the other
<Seveas> sabdfl, the brazil team(s?) has (have?) a similar issue, maybe we should bring this up at another meeting and invite them
<ivoks> sabdfl: you could do that with croatian, bosnian and serbian team... this languages share lots of words... but romanian... it's not similar to this languages...
<mako> i'm happy to come up with creative solutions to these but i'd like to make sure that the teams need it and want it.. help it evolve when it feels the need
<mako> i'm worried about creating too much beurocracy for the locos to early
<Seveas> dand, bojicas, are you on the locotem-contacts mailinglist and on the locoteamlist page already?
<dand> ivoks: we could team with moldavians once there's some action on their side :)
<sabdfl> Seveas: i'm still banging on launchpad. hopefully that's done soon, and then i'll shift my attention to the loco / community integration
<ondrej> sabdfl: czech and slovak are similar too, but romanian is too far...
<mako> also, since there are not *so* many that we can't keep track of them, i like to have a more direct relationship
<ivoks> dand: you know the best for you langauge...
<ian_brasil> me and rodrigo are here frombrazil
<dand> sabdfl: as a proposed team contact, I am
<sabdfl> mako: agreed
<rbelem> Seveas: brazilian team...
<sabdfl> from a timezone point of view, it may help to have a regional weekly forum
<bojicas> sabdfl: not yet
<dand> that was for ivoks, actually
<mako> rbelem, ian_brasil: right, we talked about this in some depth in a previous CC meeting
<Seveas> ian_brasil, rbelem, sabdfl just deferred ;)
<sabdfl> hey ian_brasil, sorry i missed you in manaus. had a *great* time though, thanks to rbelem & co
<rbelem> ;-)
<sabdfl> ok, dand, thanks for the update
<ian_brasil> cool
<sabdfl> great to hear of your team and your work
<Seveas> dand, bojicas, contact smurfix and let him forward ubuntu-ro.org to your server
<dand> there are two current issues where we could use all the help we can get: being able to translate openoffice in rosetta and integrating a proper romanian layout in xorg
<Seveas> and you're as official as it gets ;)
<dand> sabdfl: no problem, thanks for listening :)
<sabdfl> dand: carlos and doko and pitti are working on oo.o2 in rosetta
<sabdfl> for xorg, i think you need to speak with daniels
<dand> good to hear, i'm watching #launchpad then
<Seveas> dand, maybe you can work with upstream in the meantime?
<mako> dand: do you have the layout done already?
<mako> if you do, it should be relatively straightforward
<sabdfl> dand: ping doko and carlos
<dand> mako: yep. the patch is published, we have a bug in xorg
<pitti> dand: we are almost there with OO.o :-)
<dand> it's just being delayed since pre-hoary
<sabdfl> dand: ok, then ping daniels to get it in his next upload
<dand> pitti: you rock :)
<dand> sabdfl: i will
<pitti> dand: well, doko did the actual work
<dand> thanks again, guys
<mako> cool
<sabdfl> pitti does indeed rock
<mako> dand: well, thanks for showing up here :)
<sabdfl> doko too :-)
<dand> mako: np
<mako> dand: and thanks for your work on the loco
<pitti> thanks :-)
<mako> dand: drop by and let us know how things progress
<mako> alright...
<mako> any other locos here?
<dand> mako: will do (probably in 2-4 weeks)
<mako> new locos we haven't met
<mako> anyone anyone?
<mako> alright.. lets move onto the new members
<sabdfl> next
<sabdfl> :-)
<Seveas> rbelem, you're up
<mako> we have a number of people from last meeting
<mako> was which was cut short
<rbelem> Seveas: here ;-)
<mako> so we've actually already talked to a number of these people but couldn't vote on them
<mako> we'll go through those folks first so as to avoid the same thing happening again
<mako> rbelem was one of them but if you can throw out the summary again, it would be good :)
<ogra> mainly Mitario and mbreit 
<pitti_> bah, network...
<rbelem> mako: ok ;-)
<Seveas> and ploum was the most unlucky: sabdfl left during voting
<ogra> oh, yes
<sabdfl>  +1 from me on ploum
<ogra> :)
<nalioth> how y'all doin today?
<Seveas> ok, settled :)
<Mitario> heh, that's quick ;)
<mako> that was fast
<rbelem> well, my name is Rodrigo Cesar Lopes Belem, computer enginieering student. I'm a linux  user since 1999, debian user since 2002 and ubuntu user since the beginning of 2005.  ian_brasil and me started the Brazillian Team and some months later we did 3 talks  about ubuntu and ubuntu-br (flisol, fisl 6.0 and Debian Day). I want to help ubuntu  to become a very nice and easy distribution.
<sabdfl> i got a little berated for departing that time
<rbelem> Also I'd like to make things easier for people that uses Ubuntu with professional audio. Customize ubuntu to brazillian  needs. Currently i'm packaging MuSE, darksnow, and some metapackages to ubuntu-br. I work with digital inclusion and free culture projects. I'm member of Comunidade Sol and a founding member of Amazonas Debian User group
<ogra> and rbelem is often in #ubuntu-motu recently :)
* mako is familiar with rbelem's work for quite a while.. you've shoed up at a number of these meetings and have been around and active for some time
<rbelem> ;-)
<mako> i'm also familiar with his work on debian and brazil
<mako> so i'm happy approving him for membership
<Seveas> you've given the info about ubuntu-br a few meetings ago - sustained is guaranteed 
<Seveas> from what i heard the substantial part is ok too
<sabdfl>  +1 from me on rbelem, he's doing great work in .br and manaus
<Seveas> that's 2
<Seveas> one to go :)
<mako> elmo: ?
<sabdfl> rbelem: once we get the launchpad infrastructure up for easy derivative creation, do you think we could build a community around an audio-focused derivative?
<elmo> ack
<sabdfl> err... ack -1 or 0 or +1?
<mako> rbelem: winner, lets do the coc and then you're good to go
<mako> OndejSur
<mako> ondrej: you're up
<ondrej> here
<rbelem> sabdfl: yes... ;-)
<mako> ondrej: gogogo ;)
<rbelem> wooooo
<rbelem> ;-)
<elmo> sabdfl: +1
<ogra> welcome rbelem :)
<elmo> sabdfl: nack == -1, dunno = 0 :-P
* nalioth is Marek Spruell
<nalioth> sorry i'm late
<ogra> rbelem, looking forward to get you into MOTU ;)
<sabdfl> elmo: ok, gotcha now
<Seveas> rbelem, welcome aboard!
<Seveas> rock on in .br!
<rbelem> ogra, Seveas ;-)
<ondrej> I am linux user since 95-96, debian user since around that time (bo?), debian developer since 2000, ubuntu user since Hoary prerelease. Also Czech LoCo contact and team leader.  I run archive.ubuntu.cz + releases.ubuntu.cz + www.ubuntu.cz
<pitti> wow
<Seveas> don't forget mailing list activity :)
<ondrej> I am also member of Debian Gnome and PHP teams...  (most of php 5.x is my work, since I created patch and then bothered Adam for a long time to make release)
<ivoks> !
<Seveas> if that's not good enough ..:)
<ogra> wow
<sabdfl> ondrej: do you have any specific goals that you would like to bring to ubuntu?
<ondrej> yep, I want to do QA on local language (czech) release for Breezy and focus on L10N
<sabdfl> sounds plenty for me for +1 on membership for ondrej
<ondrej> mainly as coordinator and reviewer since my work doesn't allow me to spend enormous time on Ubuntu
<pitti> ondrej: if you are interested in l10n in general, I'd be glad to work with you :)
<ondrej> pitti: I would like to start with czech, but I would be glad to help where I can elsewhere
<mako> my interactions with ondrej have been in regards to the loco team
<sabdfl> ok, mako, elmo, do you have a view? +1 or defer?
<mako> i'm happy with his contributsion in this regards
<mako> +1 from me
<sabdfl> or runlikecrazy?
<elmo> +1
<bddebian> heh
<Mitario> haha
<ondrej> well, I was also able to join with OSS Alliance which promotes usage of FOSS in Czech Republic (Goverment/Schools/etc.)
<Seveas> DankoAlexeyev (Virtuall) is not here - defer or treat anyway?
<ondrej> and started CD distribution point
<ogra> welcome ondrej 
<ogra> :)
<ondrej> BTW: can you do something about CD delivery times?
<ondrej> thanks to all :-)
<bddebian> Welcome ondrej, rbelem
<sabdfl> welcome aboard
<pitti> ondrej: welcome :-)
<Seveas> ondrej, welcome on board and yes the delivery times are being taken care of
<mako> ondrej: welcone on board
<rbelem> thanks all =)
<mako> is danko not here?
<Seveas> no
<mako> wiki page implies that he probably wouldn't be
<rbelem> bddebian: ;-)
<mako> RobertStoffers 
<mako> didn't say his name on the intro bit
<Seveas> rob^, ?
<ondrej> Seveas: I have 107 CD requests in queue at this moment :-(
<sabdfl> next up?
<Seveas> jjesse
<Seveas> not here
<mako> ok
<mako> he popped in quickly
<apokryphos> hm, he was here not too long ago. Must have shot off.
<ogra> Mitario, 
<mako> Mitario: alright, you're up
<Seveas> next: Mitario
<mako> Mitario: the wait is over :0
<Mitario> allright, ok warning, long speach ahead :)
<Mitario> mako, yeah finally :)
<Mitario> i'l just sum up the things i've done and such, which are also mainly described on my wiki page
<Mitario> have fun reading :)
<Mitario> My name is Michiel Sikkes. I'm a 17 yo Dutchy, going to do a study of Media & Knowlegde engineering next year. I'm active in the open source community for about 4-5 years now. Since then I've become a GNOME hacker and I was a DM (beep-media-player).
<Mitario> I've contribed to some technical things in Ubuntu like improving trashapplet (which i'm the original author of). I'm also helping Michael Vogt package and improve Update Notifier for some time which he is now maintaining. Also, I'm the initial author/designer of Update Manager and I'm maintaining that one with MichaelVogt too.
<Mitario> Since last week TB's board I've been doing some package-fixing work as MOTU. You can find some status of the packages on MichielSikkesMOTU in the wiki.
<Mitario> For the future I'm very interested in getting usability and integration done, especially in the package management side of Ubuntu (with update-manager, synaptic, gnome-app-install, python-apt). I've just discovered ubuntu-nl, so I'll start lurking there too :). And of course, I will continue being active as MOTU.
<Mitario> tha's about it
<Mitario> did I forget anything?
<Seveas> Mitario, yeah, I like gnome-nl - ubuntu-nl interaction
<dholbach> Mitario! :)
<sabdfl> Mitario: I'm very grateful for trash applet :-)
<Mitario> sabdfl, thanks :)
<ivoks> Mitario: yay!!
<ogra> Mitario did a ton of universe uploads lat week... very impressive
<ogra> last even
* mako is looking at the wiki page
* sabdfl can't want to have a LP page listing uploads too
<sabdfl> s/want/wait/
<ogra> err s/uploads/sponsored uploads/
<Mitario> oh right, and... it may sound weird, but because i'm a fairly large fan of ruby too
<mako> ogra: usually, we like to see more than 1 week worth of work.. even a serious one :)
<slomo> and he was really helpfull in #ubuntu-motu
<sabdfl> Mitario: have you spoken with mvo at all re package management interface?
<Mitario> i want go and see if I can improve the ruby experience
<mako> sustained and significant :)
<mako> Mitario: have long have you been involved?
<ogra> mako, he wrote parts of update-manager for hoary
<Mitario> sabdfl, which particular interface do you mean?
<Mitario> the time that update-manager and trashapplet entered ubuntu
<Mitario> that was like 3/4 of a year ago?
<ogra> mako, if thats not significant, what then ? 
<mako> ogra: the two are seperate criteria
<sabdfl> update-manager is a really awesome contribution
* mako nods
<Mitario> too bad current CVS can't make it for breezy
* mako is happy with Mitario as a member :)
<Mitario> because it's profit+improvementfor++++
<sabdfl> i'm happy to +1 membership on that basis, let the tb take a view on motu separately
<Mitario> I tried to upload it in about June
<Mitario> i mean, sponsored upload it :)
<mako> ogra: you can have significant contributions that are in the last week :)
<Seveas> Mitario, it will  be in the backports quickly I guess ;)
<elmo> err
<ondrej> if you excuse me, I will depart to bed...  have a nice rest of day (evening for Europe)
<Mitario> elmo, didn't the TB approve me as MOTU or.. was that my interpretation?
<Mitario> good night ondrej 
<ivoks> ondrej: 'noc :)
<Seveas> ondrej, sleep well
<sistpoty> Mitario: iirc TB approved you
<elmo> no, I was freaked out by random people appearing in the office, sorry it was -EWIN
<Mitario> elmo, heh
<ogra> mako, 23 packages last week... 
<mako> ogra: wow :)
<ogra> yup
<Mitario> ogra, 23? :/
* Mitario never counted them :)
<elmo> ack for mitario from me
<sabdfl> rocking along :-)
<ogra> Mitario, thats what evo shows me
<mako> ogra: but like i said, that alone is significant clearly but not necessary sustained if he only appeared last week
<sabdfl> ok, welcome aboard mitario!
<mako> ogra: clearly, in this situation, that's not he case
<mako> ogra: but as a rule it's a very good one
<Mitario> sabdfl, many thanks :)
<ogra> mako, he started when he was approved by the TB in advance
<Seveas> Mitario, awesome, welcome aboard!
<mako> ogra: right, i understand, we're not arguing over this case
<mako> ogra: i approved him like 5 minutes ago :)
<jdthood> Excuse me, I have to leave.  'Til next time....
<ogra> mako, yup
<sabdfl> cheers jdthood
<Mitario> bye jdthood 
<Seveas> jdthood, see ya!
<sabdfl> next?
<mako> MoritzBreit
<Seveas> mbreit
<mako> mbreit: 
<mbreit> that's me ;)
<rbelem> Mitario: ;-)
<sabdfl> you're up
<mbreit> I have created the Gnomeradio package which is in Universe now and I have fixed several packages in Universe (unmet dependencies and gcc4 issues). I am going to help the MOTU team where I can and to make some more packages of which I think they should be included in Universe.
<mbreit> And I am going to help developing REVU2.
<mbreit> Btw: TB approved me as a MOTU last week.
<bddebian> mbreit++ :-)
<Mitario> thanks everyone btw :)
<Seveas> mbreit, to settle this early on: how long have you been involved with ubuntu?
<Nafallo> I uploaded stuff for mbreit today :-)
<ogra> yay Mitario congrats
<dholbach> yes... mbreit did a nice work, even i noticed it - and i wasnt that much around :)
<dholbach> Mitario: good to have you in the team :)
<bddebian> Mitario: Welcome :-)
<slomo> Mitario: congrats :)
<ogra> mbreit is with the MOTU soince quite some time and did a lot of fixes already
<sistpoty> Mitario welchome, mbreit++ ;)
<mbreit> Seveas: we had that discussion already ;) that's far over a month by now...
<elmo> didn't we do mbreit last week?
<elmo> or last meeting, 'tever
<ogra> elmo, yup without quorum
<sistpoty> elmo: yep (iirc)
<elmo> IIRC, we just wanted to see him be around a bit longer while doing stuff
<sabdfl> today counts as a bit longer :-)
<mako> ok.. sorry.. catching up i got a phone call
<mbreit> elmo: mako did not want to approve me last time ;)
<elmo> sabdfl: right
<sabdfl> +1 from me for mbreit
<elmo> +1 me too
<sabdfl> and kudos for elmo for his memory :-)
<mako> today is a bit longer
<bddebian> heh
<mako> welcome on board, +1 from me
<Seveas> mbreit, welcome!
<mbreit> thanks guys!!
<ogra> yay
<Seveas> Lathiat, you're up
<mako> mbreit: no problem, thank you
<sistpoty> welcome mbreit :)
<ogra> MOTU grows :-D
<slomo> mbreit: congrats :)
<Seveas> (TrentLloyd)
<Mitario> mbreit, congrats :D
<Lathiat> okie
<mako> ok.. that's trent
<mako> cool
<dholbach> mbreit: you made it! :)
<Mitario> Lathiath, our avahi god
<Lathiat> finsihed all the congrats? :)
<ogra> Lathiat, go
<Lathiat> I am Trent Lloyd aka Lathiat, 17yo from Australia, been using linux since 2001, have been involved in various conferences etc and helped out a bit in GNOME in the last year or two, have been involved with Ubuntu for the past few months, have been using it since.. well warty pretty much. Currently working with the MOTU team, at the moment I am running around looking after packages that aren't building / generally needing love.
<Lathiat> I am also upstream for Avahi a new mDNS/DNS-SD (http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi for the curious) daemon that I have proposed a ZeroConfSpec including for breezy+1 that I wish to actively work on getting done. Hoping to become a member so I can become a universe uploader and take a more active role and get things done faster so universe will be in shape for breezy and beyond :)  I have details of my activities on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Trent
<bddebian> Come back when you are 30+ ;-P
<Lathiat> hah
<Seveas> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrentLloyd
<ogra> bddebian, :p
<Lathiat> i guess that would be 'sustained' ;p
<mako> bddebian: hey dude, i'm on 24 :)
<ogra> i must admit i thought Lathiat is already member, he's around since ages...
<mako> only even
<bddebian> Damn I hate being old AND stupid :-(
<mako> Lathiat: thank you for the page
<mako> Lathiat: it made verifying your contributions very easy
<Lathiat> well it was more impressive when i coudl say i was doing conference talks on ivp6 at 14, i think im getting a little older now :(
<mako> although i've seen you around for a while so it was less necessary :)
<Lathiat> no problems, didnt want to send you searching :)
* mako is happy with membership based on the rockin wikipage
<bddebian> heh
<Lathiat> haha
<sabdfl> Lathiat: really excelltn wiki home page
<sabdfl>  +1 from me on the content of that
* ogra looks forward to another MOTU :)
<Lathiat> what i have to do work now? doh :)
<bddebian> ogra: Man you are greedy.. ;-P
<Lathiat> my main future plans are the ZeroConfSpec
<ogra> hehe
<Lathiat> i'd love to see that in breezy+1
<bddebian> Lathiat: Nahh :-)
<Seveas> Lathiat, is on board for 2/3, elmo has to drag him in :)
<sabdfl> Lathiat: think we can get printer conf seamless?
<Lathiat> sabdfl: I'd like to..
<sabdfl> detection and configuration of network printers?
<elmo> +1 from me
<Lathiat> sabdfl: also f-spot for photos, thatd *rock* for conferences
<Lathiat> sabdfl: yeh thats the idea
<mako> Lathiat: woot, welcome dude
<Seveas> Lathiat, welcome onboard, congratz!
<Lathiat> yay! thanks guys :)
<sabdfl> ok, 3 of 3, welcome aboard
<ogra> yay Lathiat 
<ivoks> Lathiat: congrats!
<Nafallo> Lathiat: welcome :-)
<Mitario> Lathiat, welcome!
<Mitario> :p
<Lathiat> i assume i need to go beg to the TB about MOTU upload?
<sistpoty> Lathiat: welcome ;)
<dholbach> woohoo Lathiat :)
<bddebian> Welcome Lathiat, Mitario
<ogra> Lathiat, yup
<Seveas> Lathiat, yup :)
* Lathiat looks at the topic
<Seveas> next: apokryphos 
<mako> FrancisGiannaros
<Lathiat> bah 4am again, oh well :)
<mako> same thing?
<Lathiat> thanks guys :)
<mako> Seveas: ?
<apokryphos> Seveas: I do wonder whether I should be applying for this (seems out of place), but nevertheless.. ;-)
<Seveas> mako, yeah
<apokryphos> hi guys :)
<ogra> Lathiat, sleep well
<Seveas> apokryphos, I don't wonder, I know you should :)
<apokryphos> Pretty much all of my contribution to [k] ubuntu has been through the channels (long hours). Gonna join docs for 6.10 (already kde-doc team). Inspired to apply to help with the facilitation of the channels per a member suggestion; profane/abusive language has gone on for *long* periods of times in the channel, at times; #kubuntu especially isn't moderated at all, really. 
<Lathiat> yeh im goign to depart as I have uni today and its 5:23am now, thanks guys, rock on for the rest of the meeting :)
<apokryphos> I post in #ubuntu quite a bit, but I doubt you've stayed in #kubuntu for any significant time without me talking/helping [to]  you :). Vision: good community support. I currently probably wouldn't use a distro at all if the community environment wasn't decent and there wasn't potentially good support. Docs included in this too, of course.
<dholbach> Lathiat: sleep tight
<bddebian> I have to go pick up my daughter, later folks.  Congrats to the new members
<Seveas> apokryphos, is a great contributor to #ubuntu
<ogra> ciao bddebian 
<mako> bddebian: later
<Burgundavia> we need more Kubuntu doc team members
<Seveas> both helping and keeping the temperature of the channel low 
<Mitario> bddebian, have fun!
<Nafallo> bddebian: is she a member yet? ;-)
<Mitario> Lathiat, good night
<apokryphos> Burgundavia: I've done some already (did a little today), but nothing significant. Easy to get involved though; I know docbook well :)
<mako> is apokryphos an op for the channel?
<Seveas> mako, no, but that's part of another thing I put on the agenda
<bddebian> Nafallo: Maybe by the time she's 8. ;-)  Actually my 4 year old is probably a better candidate. :-)
<Burgundavia> apokryphos, excellent
<Seveas> (read: I want him to be an op)
<mako> apokryphos: maybe it would be good if we gave you op status on the channels and then encouarged you to get involved in the kubuntu stuff.. sort of doing some more trackable contributions
<mako> apokryphos: and then we revisit this at the next cc meeting or so
<mako> Seveas: sounds great
<apokryphos> mako: sure
<mako> apokryphos: cool :)
<apokryphos> =)
<mako> lets move on then
<mako> PeterGarrett?
<apokryphos> Thanks guys. :)
<Seveas> next: PeterGarret - thoreauputic 
<thoreauputic> I'm Peter Garrett, and my main contributions have been helping new users in #ubuntu and on the mailing list. I've been a regular on #ubuntu for about 8 months. I have a wiki page PeterGarrett. and spent a day at UDU out of personal interest
<mako> nice nick :)
<thoreauputic> HISTORY: My main contribution has been on #ubuntu, answering questions, and as far as possible facilitating the channel, by reminding certain users to remain on-topic and generally behave appropriately. 
<thoreauputic> PLANS: I am interested in helping to bridge the gap between the technically adept, very knowledgeable people, and the new wave of Ubuntu users who, like me, have come to GNU/Linux from non-technical backgrounds.
<thoreauputic> VISION: What I would call "Bridging Tools" - a sort of meta-documentation that eases people's path to the concepts they need to understand, including the packaging system. Making Ubuntu even more Human! A broadening of the Ubuntu Community to be more inclusive of the non-technical...
<mako> thoreauputic: i want to see your picture so i can connect the fact to the online presence :)
<Seveas> for thoreauputic in #ubuntu the same holds: he's active, helping and good at preserving the great atmosphere
<thoreauputic> mako: aha - well I have a grey beard ;)
<ogra> hehe, i just thought the same mak
<ogra> o
* ogra thinks he remembers...
<mako> thoreauputic: ah, i remember you :)
<ogra> a long grey beard,,,#
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
<thoreauputic> indeed - i look like a Unix veteran - but I'm not
<ogra> heh
<ogra> but youre quite present in #ubuntu .... 
<thoreauputic> I see my role as a kind of intermediary for the hopelessly lost ;)
<apokryphos> A regular to say the least :)
<mako> alright.. so it's a bit hard for me to guage involvement on #ubuntu alone.. since i only monitor it infrequently
<Seveas> hehe
<nalioth> thoreauputic is there helping every day
<mako> i'm alright with recognizing very significant IRC contributions
<sabdfl> thoreauputic: we definitely need what you're proposing
<ivoks> he there non-stop
<Seveas> #ubuntu has been hell the past days
<mako> like, Seveas-esque sorts of things :)
<ogra> mako, he was around there before i got MOTU iirc....
* mako nods
<ogra> or at least around that time
<Seveas> If i were part of the CC, thoreauputic would get an instant +1
<ogra> from me too
<mako> Seveas: i appreciate your recommending in this regard
<sabdfl> Seveas: what's been hellish about #ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> mako, thoreauputic has been around #ubuntu nearly endlessly
<ogra> sabdfl, bot attacks
<Seveas> sabdfl, another item - will talk about it later :)
<sabdfl> ok
* mako is happy with a +1 based on those three.. :)
<mako> testimonials
<thoreauputic> Burgundavia: haha - feels like it at times:)
<sabdfl>  +1 from me too, and thank thoreauputic for the contribution so far
<mako> and through my own experience at UDU
<mako> thoreauputic: i appreciate your contributions
<thoreauputic> sabdfl: thank you, and mako
<elmo> +1
<mako> awesome :)
<mako> thoreauputic: welcome sir :)
<Seveas> ok, welcome aboard thoreauputic !!
<thoreauputic> thanks elmo :)
<mako> thoreauputic: nice page as well
<mako> LoicPefferkorn
<thoreauputic> well, I'm surprised =)
<pef> i'm here :)
<mako> pef: run with it
<thoreauputic> thank you very much for the vote of confidence!
<pef> I'm a french student in computer sciences. Linux user since 2000, and Ubuntu user since Hoary. I wrote several articles on framasoft.net on opensource softwares.
<pef> I've made two new packages accepted into Universe (datakiosk and kvpnc), and currently working on some others. I've also filled about 25 bugs reports, in Bugzilla and Malone, and add comments to others. 
<pef> I'm an active member of forum.ubuntu-fr.org, where I help newbies, and try to find what people want packaged, and package them or add them to UniversesCandidates.
<pef> I plan to fix or create more new packages, help with Dell Inspiron 5100 laptop support, and do something around python or/and Dbus, write french documentation.
<pef> have I missed something ?
<ogra> pef, oh, you changed your nick ... i was saying to dholbach before i dont remember having seen you in the channel for auite some time *grin*
<ogra> s/auite/quite
<dholbach> pef is the REVU rocker :)
<Seveas> ah :)
<pef> I have learning debian packages with Ubuntu
<ogra> and he's doing well :) now that i know who he is *g*
<pef> ogra: are you sure ? my irc nick always was pef
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> not pfefferkorn  ? 
<ogra> err pefferkorn indeed
<pef> ogra: very common in Germany, but it's not my name, many people make this error, I don't know why :] 
<ogra> oh, then i mixed you up completely...
<elmo> btw, nothing against pef, just a totally random comment.  one days you motu guys are going to have to at LEAST a neutral reaction to somonee
<elmo> :-P
* mako nods to elmo
<ivoks> :>
<sabdfl> elmo: hard to be neutral about someone who's helped a lot in Motu-land :-)
<Nafallo> sabdfl++ :-)
<ogra> elmo, i woud love to... but how should i if everyone who shows up here did good work ? 
<mako> right, the positive recommendations become less impactful when it's always dancing and singing :)
<dholbach> elmo: i reviewed quite a  bunch of his kde packages and i was very happy with the progress he made
<sabdfl> motu have generally not spoken for someone who's actually not done anything in motu-land
<elmo> sabdfl: sure, but they're always so positive, it colours my opinon of their ratings
<ajmitch> elmo: usually we bash them into shape before they turn up here :)
* Seveas thinks that the lesser gods of MOTU land are simply taught enough to become MOTY hods before they enter this
<sabdfl> also, i suspect that motu are good about encouraging guys to take the step to membership
<ogra> elmo, we train our people good before we push them here ;) 
<Nafallo> mako: people who can't do isn't told to come here ;-)
<mako> sabdfl: kamion has expressed some concern as well
<mako> Nafallo: right, so the argument is that the selection happen's before anyone gets to this meeting
<Nafallo> mako: indeed
<Mitario> elmo, the recruitment process is hard you know
<mako> nto that's not uncommon in other similar boards but we should probably discuss this as well
<Nafallo> mako: I waited almost a year for instance :-P
<Mitario> elmo, you have to walk trough mud, didges, dodge bullets etc.
<sabdfl> ok, pef, nice wiki page
* mako nods
<ogra> mako, the thing is, that MOTU hopefuls ask if they should go or not...
<mako> ogra: yes
<mako> ogra: i understand that the selection happens before this meeting
<pef> sabdfl: thank you, it's hard to put many informations as nicely as possible
<mako> in any case, i've seen pef's work on the page and am happy with giving it a thumbs up
<mako> +1 from me
<ogra> mako, its not a selection... if someone wants to show up, he should... but if someone asks i tell him what i think
<sabdfl> pef: any particular plans for dbus?
<elmo> oh, ok, I've reveiwed one of his packages myself today
<elmo> so +1
<mako> elmo: that's comforting :)
<ogra> welcome pef :)
<Nafallo> I uploaded that package :-)
<elmo> and I don't have to rely on the all-singing, all-dancing, all-shiny MOTU troop ;-P
<elmo> (kidding)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Seveas> motu-cheerleaders :)
<pef> sabdfl: i'm reading and reading, dbus and ubuntu sutff, since I'm involved only since jully, I have a lot of things to understand
* Nafallo starts the badger-dance ;-)
<ogra> elmo, so how was the package, could we instantly make him a MOTU ? :-P
<Seveas> I saw votes from elmo and mako, did sabdfl vote already?
<sabdfl>  +1 from me
<Nafallo> pef: welcome :-)
<Seveas> (just keeping score/stats for the wikipage)
<mako> sabdfl: bingo :)
<mako> so
<mako> thomas hood
<Seveas> last up: thomas hood
<pef> thanks to all ! I'm very proud to help you and to contribute to Ubuntu
<mako> ran off in the middle of the meeting i though
<Seveas> didn't he leave earlier?
<mako> Seveas: yes
<Seveas> k :)
<mako> so.. i know him well from debian
<ogra> pef, and we are very proud t have you aboard :)
<ogra> to even
<mako> but not too well from ubuntu yet
<ogra> he's a lot in -devel
<Nafallo> mako: I know he worked with pitti on alsa for both distros.
<ogra> ^^
<mako> Nafallo: yes, this is true
<mako> in any case, we'll see him next time
<Seveas> k
<Nafallo> indeed :-)
<pitti> yep
<mako> thin wiki page too
<Seveas> next in the 'general items' section is solved
<Seveas> so we've landed at 2 mailing list questions
<mako> ok, is carlos here?
<mako> CarlosSantiviago
<mdz> mako: thomas hood has been extremely active and helpful in Bugzilla
<mako> mdz: cool 
<mako> mdz: hopefully we'll catch him at the next meeting
<pitti> mako: he also did great work in the Debian alsa packages to make them work for Ubuntu
<mdz> mako: I encouraged him to go for membership based on his contributions
<mako> mdz: nice.. :)
* mako bought him a drink about a month ago :)
<Seveas> so he'll be accepted quickly next time :)
<Seveas> rbelem-afk, come back
<Seveas> you're up next
<mako> so carlos isn't here 
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> and rbelem just left too
<rbelem-afk> i'll pick up ian_brasil
<rbelem-afk> and come back
<mako> i think we don't need a decision in the CC on either of these
<mako> mabye i don't understand the issue but mailing list creation is not usually a CC issue unless it's a new sort of team or type of mailing list.. something out of the ordinary
<mako> Seveas: alright dude
<mako> Seveas: irc issue
<Seveas> ok, there are 2 irc issues currently:
<Seveas> First the registration on freenode - I have sent sabdfl a mail a few weeks ago describing the registration problem: freenode (aka lilo) wants an official representative as a group contact and he repeatedly specifically mentioned Mark. I know sabdfl is a busy man, so what to do, who can push this forward?
<Seveas> Second: we need more ops. Specifically during times like this - the heavy ongoing spambot attack - having more ops around pays off. I want to propose thoreauputic (wiki.ubuntu.com/PeterGarrett) and apokryphos (wiki.ubuntu.com/FrancisGiannaros) as new operators. They have been consistent and good contributors for a long time already.
<mako> we can come back to the brazilian s when they are here
<mako> Seveas: i contacted lilo about this
<mako> Seveas: i guess he never got back to me
<Seveas> mako, cool
<mako> Seveas: i'll do it again
<Seveas> i'll ping him too
<mako> i'll do it RIGHT NOW
<rbelem-afk> well, i think it's better stay here
<apokryphos> Seveas: I got ops for #kubuntu now already, btw.
<Seveas> apokryphos, cool :)
<rbelem> ;-)
<Seveas> we need to talk to jdub about #ubuntu
<sabdfl> Seveas: i haven't seen your email, it's in there with a few '000 others, which i think speaks to the point of me not being a good contact for lilo
<mako> Seveas: i'm going to just delegate things to you if possible
<Seveas> sabdfl, exactly what i was afraid of
<mako> sabdfl: if lilo insists, i may have to have you tell him that :)
<sabdfl> i'm happy for ops to folks who know how to do it and are willing
<sabdfl> mako: np
<Nafallo> Seveas: didn't kiko fix something before?
<mako> sabdfl: i just messaged lilo again with the status and who i am and asking to get things roling
<Seveas> sabdfl, thoreauputic and apokryphos know how to
<Seveas> Nafallo, kiko registered *canonical* as a group
<mako> Seveas: in terms of ops, i'm h appy with these two guys
<Nafallo> Seveas: ah, was just about to ask
<mako> Seveas: do you have anyone else on your list?
<Seveas> not currently
<mako> alright
<Seveas> oops
<sabdfl> Seveas: can we delegate to you the ability to appoint ops?
<mako> sabdfl, elmo: any objections to our new members also being irc ops?
<sabdfl> mako, would you be happy to do that?
<Seveas> but one from a long time ago: nalioth still has no ops
<mako> sabdfl: yes
<mako> sabdfl: that's actually want it want to get lilo to do
<Seveas> sabdfl, jdub has to do that
<elmo> mako: no
<sabdfl> so, +1 to thoreauputic, nalioth, apokryphos
<mako> sabdfl: at least from the technical perspective 
<sabdfl> also, +1 to having seveas be able to give ops
<Seveas> -ChanServ- An access level of [30]  is required for [ACCESS ADD]  on #ubuntu
<Seveas> that means I need to be channel owner to add users to the list of ops
<mako> Seveas: we're gonna handle that dude.. i'm going to try to give ownership to you
<Seveas> (which kinda sucks)
<Seveas> mako, ping me when we're done, it's not hard if jdub is around or you know the channel pass
<mako> Seveas: ok.. i think you have what you need :)
<mako> Seveas: i don't know it.. i'll message you next time i catch jdub :)
<dholbach> need to go... have a nice evening
<mako> Seveas: in canse you don'tt first
<mako> ANY OTHER BUSINESS
<Seveas> rbelem?
<mako> oh right
<rbelem> Seveas: here ;-)
<Seveas> rbelem, say what you need to say :)
<ian_brasil> ok
<Seveas> mako, btw: any luck reaching lilo now?
<rbelem> i think we need to create a list to big countries
<sabdfl> to?
<sabdfl> for?
<Seveas> for which purpose?
<rbelem> to discuss organizational things with other sub locoteams
<ian_brasil> for ...this is a translation bug
<mako> Seveas: he hasn't responded yet
<Nafallo> rbelem: isn't that loco-contacts?
<mako> ian_brasil, rbelem: why isn't the general list good for that?
<ian_brasil> loco contacts is specific for team leads
<rbelem> but disccuss in portuguesse because many team leaders dont know speak english
<mako> you can have more than one contact on that list
<sabdfl> so the idea is to have a brazil list, which has lots of different loco teams on it?
<ian_brasil> there are many states in brazil
<sabdfl> that list would be in portuguese
<rbelem> from other states and cities
<mako> if the question is having a brazil list and a city-state lists, that is fine with me
<mako> we said early on that locos could/should be overlappping
<ian_brasil> each of which could have a sub loco team for the state
<mako> as in, you can have a us locoteam and a detroit locoteam if there is a need
<sabdfl> i'm happy to do this, as long as loco guys feel they can also participate in the central structures if they want
<mako> or an italian loco team and a rome loco team
<ian_brasil> yes 
<mako> but it doesn't need to be a sperate structure or buerocracy
<mako> you can just have an overlapping loco :)
<sabdfl> its just another list
<ivoks> good night all
<Nafallo> ivoks: night
<sabdfl> sounds fine to me, in fact i'd like to try it
<ogra> night ivoks 
<sabdfl> night ivoks
<ian_brasil> for example how can we in Manuas become involved in creating a community iin Bahia 
<rbelem> debian user groups dont have contacts at all because we dont have something to comunicate well
<ian_brasil> we cannot travel there so the only way is to have state user groups
<rbelem> i think a list will help to stay in touch with other sub loco teams
<ian_brasil> we propose the same structure here
<Seveas> ian_brasil, I think that if you need another list it's simply a matter of requesting one from the list admin
<Seveas> this should not need CC approval imho if it helps communication between teams
<mako> right
<mako> talk to smurf, and me if you want.. and we can do this
<mako> like i said, overlapping teams is fine
<sabdfl> ok, all approved
<mako> nothing special needs to be done
<mako> can we wrap up?
<Seveas> ANY OTHER BUSINESS?
<mako> going once
<mako> going twice
<sabdfl> ian_brasil: we didn't meet up, but i did want to say thanks for everything you are doing in manaus and brazil
<sabdfl> it's awesome work
<Nafallo> .
<mako> gone :)
<Seveas> Nafallo, ?
<mako> thanks for coming everyone :)
<Nafallo> mako: . ;-)
<ogra> thanks mako
<mako> next meeting is one of the earlier ones
<ian_brasil> no problem :)
<mako> i think 12UTC
<Mitario> wohoo!
<Mitario> ow, damn
<mako> two weeks from now
<Seveas> 14 sept?
<mako> yes, i think so
<Seveas> 13 actually
<mako> thanks everyone
* apokryphos waves
<Seveas> I'll play secretary and update the agenda
<pitti> welcome to the new MOTUs, and good night to everybody
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-08-31
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting) Done
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * Orca - It's great to see it on the live CD! I've done some testing and have helped several blind users with testing with advice and a HOWTO
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * Dicussions with Orca upstream on better ways of integrating it with the Ubuntu desktop (so that it doesn't get in people's way)
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * onBoard - Met Chris for va status meeting yesterday. We are hoping to get this through universe and into main during the next few days. Advice appreciated.
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * Finally got rolling with some desktop bug triage today
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * Other: Preparing the release of the OpenCD v4
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting) To do
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * Make final decision on Orca placement within the Gnome menu structure. If a few annoyances are not addressed (from Orca) we may leave out the menu item (this is not as bad as it sounds because blind users often prefer to launch things from the command prompt anyway)
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * Get onBoard into main and on the CD
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * theOpenCD release foo
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting)  * More bug triage
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting) seb128: can you give me qa-team powers?
(dholbach/#ubuntu-meeting) heno: i can do
(seb128/#ubuntu-meeting) hum, I've to look at that
(Kamion/#ubuntu-meeting) I think pitti comes back on Monday, which will make main promotions easier
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting) dholbach: thanks
(seb128/#ubuntu-meeting) dholbach job usually
(seb128/#ubuntu-meeting) ok, dholbach on it, all fine then
(fabbione/#ubuntu-meeting) (FYI: the logs should be back again. thanks feenode for your amazing amount of netsplit)
(heno/#ubuntu-meeting) ok, just so I can set bug priorities
(fabbione/#ubuntu-meeting) have fun guys
<Kamion> fabbione: thanks. (you're on holiday so I don't need an update from you, right?)
<ogra> fabbione, go back to your little one
<fabbione> Kamion: yes i will be in vac also next week
<fabbione> ogra: yup...
<Kamion> heno: oh, I was to send a mail to seb128 about sudo-admin-atspi, wasn't I?
<ogra> :)
<fabbione> thanks guys
<fabbione> take care
<ogra> you too
<heno> Kamion: I sent one
<Kamion> heno: I'll do that straight after the meeting if you haven't
<Kamion> ok, good
<doko> fabbione: please could you check a newer OOo build for sparc today/tomorrow?
<Kamion> seb128: does that stuff look applyable?
<seb128> Kamion: I've not looked at it yet, but will do after meeting or tomorrow
<Kamion> heno: is there anything left of livecd-access other than my gfxboot stufff?
<Kamion> -f
<Kamion> seb128: thanks
<seb128> np
<heno> Kamion: in a sense the Orca and onBoard inclusion ties into that
<heno> as does the At-spi/sudo stuff
<Kamion> right, I mean anything not mentioned yet
<heno> and the gksudo grabbing focus thing
<heno> ^
<Kamion> there is ubiquity-casper work there, right?
<heno> Yes, just changing a few commands like, gnopernicus -> orca
<heno> and gok -> onboard
<Kamion> please https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/50319
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50319 in casper "Accessibility options are not preserved on installs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<Kamion> er, s/please/plus/
<heno> It would also be nice to get the defaults copied to the HD install
<heno> right
<Kamion> yes, can you make sure there's a casper bug filed about that?
<Kamion> and subscribe me to it
<heno> yep, cool
<Kamion> ok, thanks heno
<Kamion> Riddell: ?
<Riddell> done:
<Riddell>     distro sprint
<Riddell>     processing e-mail backlog gathered during feature period
<Riddell>     knot 2 testing
<Riddell>     artwork packaging
<Riddell> blocked:
<Riddell>     ruby
<Riddell>     kubuntu-accessibility: needs changes in casper by mithrandir
<Riddell> todo:
<Riddell>     updates to kubuntu-power-management
<Riddell>     gather up list of priority bugs for edgy (and fix them)
<Riddell>     KDE 4 packages
<Kamion> Riddell: "langpacks-desktopfiles-kde - some packages need to be rebuilt" - has that been done?
<Mithrandir> Riddell: if you want to speed up the kubuntu-accessibility stuff, give me a casper branch to merge from.
<Riddell> Kamion: no, missed knot freeze, I can do it afterwards
<Kamion> Riddell: ok
<Riddell> Mithrandir: ok, I can do that
<Mithrandir> Riddell: thanks, sorry for not acting on it earlier.
<Kamion> Riddell: mdz's notes say "needs integration from colin (gfxboot)" for kubuntu-accessibility, but I think we covered that at the sprint
<Riddell> Kamion: yes, that is fine
<Kamion> all right
<Kamion> kwwii: ?
<kwwii> In addition to fixing parts of the work already included (kdm, power-manager icons,, etc.) I whipped up an amarok theme (thingking about using a totally different one though).
<kwwii> Started to play with the different versions of the gradients. people like purple! (some like the yellow/orange more than others).
<kwwii> In the end all of this is linked together, as the same colors are used in many different pieces of the artwork. Working on moving the entire theme to a blue-purple gradient and see peoples reactions.
<kwwii> Andreas Lloyd will be at my home tomorrow, anthropologizing me :-)
<Kamion> have fun ;-)
<ogra> heh
<kwwii> Will start making the guidance hardware database interface pics this week
<Kamion> kwwii: "icons - maybe start during sprint, finish and upload before feature freeze" - is that still on track?
<ogra> send greetings :)
<kwwii> Kamion: we dropped that idea from edgy, moved more to edgy+1 (the new icons will come in kde4)
<kwwii> The only really oustanding issue is the usplash...depending on what is possible we will make one soon
<kwwii> guess I should update that spec
<Riddell> kwwiis icons are included in my updates to kubuntu-power-management too
<Kamion> kwwii: oh, ok; yes, please mark the spec as deferred and send mail to me/mdz about it
<fschoep> kwwii: I contacted Matthew Garrett on usplash, but I don't have a definitive answer to what artwork to provide yet
<kwwii> Kamion: cool, I talked to matt about this at the sprint...will do :-)
<sladen> fschoep: the capabilities may not be set in stone yet
<kwwii> fschoep: I think that we will end up with the old system again
<Kamion> mjg59: ^--
<kwwii> fschoep: perhaps removing the text or such, but I am not holding my breath for the new features
<Seveas> fschoep, sladen: I have it working on 1024x768 with 256 colors for i386/amd64
<fschoep> OK, but my screen does only 800x600 (example)
<Seveas> I need to borrow someones mac to implement ppc bits
<Keybuk> mjg59 seemed confident about usplash at the weekend
<Keybuk> though he was mostly distracted by compiz :)
<kwwii> well, if there is improvements, it only makes things easier for the artists
<Seveas> Keybuk, he still is (talked to him yesterday) -- the code just needs to be written
<Keybuk> SMOP
<Kamion> minor tweaks are ok after feature freeze, just not major reworks :-)
<Seveas> Keybuk, (if interested, I've published my changes in a branch on lp)
<ogra> right, its *edgy* :)
<Kamion> ok, let's move detailed usplash discussion to -devel; thanks kwwii
<Kamion> doko: ?
<Keybuk> Kamion: I think we have to accept some uplash rework anyway, simply because of how other specs effect it (b-m-i)
<Keybuk> uh, b-m-l ... b-m-i is a local airline
<doko> - this week
<doko>   - openoffice.org - OOo 2.0.4 rc1 builds, gstreamer support, i386 currently
<doko>     doesn't work on amd64, ia32-libs updates,
<doko>     start adding compat packages for dapper-proposed.
<doko>   - openoffice.org-hyphenation: license status for the various languages is
<doko>     clarified; will need to split the patterns in a free and a non-free part.
<doko>   - edgy-toolchain: final classpath-0.92 backport uploaded to edgy
<doko>   - upgraded amd64 server to edgy (but still OOo shows build failures, although
<doko>     it builds in the data center :-/).
<doko> - this week / next week:
<doko>   - python2.5
<doko>   - OOo
<doko>   - knot-2 testing / upgrade amd64 workstation; need to get local OOo builds
<doko>     going.
<Kamion> mdz says:
<Kamion> matthias
<Kamion>         notes lost due to resume failure
<Kamion> (well, damn)
<ogra> Keybuk, and b-m-l is ? 
<Keybuk> ogra: boot-message-logging
<ogra> ah
<ogra> thanks
<doko> Kamion: ?
<Kamion> doko: (the notes I have from mdz's conversations with everyone at the sprint - apparently he lost yours)
<ogra> doko, mdz lost the notes from your face to face talk in wiesbaden
<doko> argh!
<doko> he didn't tell me
<Kamion> doko: so, I'm just trying to get a grip on the status of your specs hre
<Kamion> here
<Kamion> edgy-toolchain-roadmap> is there anything left? we shouldn't be doing much more toolchain work at this point
<Kamion> edgyplusone-toolchain-roadmap I'm assuming is a special case and will start happening after FF
<doko> we updated them at the sprint. should be up to date.
<Kamion> ooo-langpacks is unknown? openoffice-spellchecking is not started?
<doko> edgy-toolchain-roadmap: libc/libstdc++ ABI issues on powerpc and sparc; need to get jbailey
<Kamion> packaging-hints I suppose can drift
<doko> edgyplusone-toolchain-roadmap: yes, we did want to open edgy+1 for the toolchain in the near future
<Kamion> python-roadmap looks mostly done, although I've noticed the odd issue - are you going to do another pass to make sure all the stragglers are cleaned up?
<Kamion> generally speaking I've been rejecting new packages that don't meet python-roadmap
<Keybuk> me also
<doko> ooo-langpacks: bounty for haggai
<Kamion> I don't know if we'll actually open edgy+1, but the toolchain can always be staged somewhere
<Kamion> when was that communicated to haggai
<doko> python-roadmap: you'll get an update of syncs (without changelogs) for some more packages (and zope)
<Kamion> ?
<Keybuk> Kamion: "PPA" :p
<Kamion> ok (grumble :-))
<doko> Kamion: did talk with mdz at the sprint and with haggai this week
<Kamion> python2.5 you covered; let me/mdz know if that needs to be deferred
<doko> openoffice-spellchecking: yes, these are the hypenation patterns
<Kamion> likewise for ooo-langpacks
<doko> python2.5: will do. won't become the default, but will rebuild the library packages to build the 2.5 extensions as well
<doko> ooo-langpacks won't be ready for ff, but for the OOo 2.0.4 release (which is mid September)
<Kamion> ok, I think that's covered it, then
<Kamion> hmm, we'll have to discuss that as a FF exception nearer the time, if you haven't done so with mdz already
<Kamion> ok, thanks doko
<Kamion> mvo_: ?
<mvo_> Did:
<mvo_> * dev-meeting Wiesbaden
<mvo_> * gnome-app-install upload with caching support (startup speedups), bugfixes
<mvo_> * cdrom based dist-upgrades spec: implementation in dist-upgrader started, basic support ready and uploaded
<mvo_> * notification-daemon: backport sizing problem fix, fixed (in edgy): sizing and shape problem for downward arrows, added experimental "composition" branch that makes notifications transparent
<mvo_> * misc (bash cmd-not-found, some apt rdepends, language-selector, looked over apts breaks support, hplip upgrade problem, realplayer upload)
<mvo_> * bug triage
<mvo_> Blocked:
<mvo_> * review of the "AlwaysEnableUniverseMultiverse" spec
<mvo_> Will do:
<mvo_> * more work on the cdrom based dist-ugprades spec, finish update-notifier support and get in touch with kamion about the best way to integrate it onto the CD
<mvo_> * go over the outstanding apt issues/bugs
<mvo_> * add "mark manually installed" button to synaptic (control the auto-installed information)
<Kamion> oh, that's another one for my to-do
<Kamion>   cdrom-based-dist-upgrades: Add upgrader to CD images.
<mvo_> :)
<Kamion> so most of your specs are "beta available"; is there a substantial amount more to be done on any of them?
<mvo_> Kamion: I opened a bug and asked for advice about the place to put it in the build-scripts, if I get feedback there I should be able to add it myself
<Kamion> mvo_: ok, noted, I'll get back to you on that
<mvo_> the recommends-supports needs some more work to make it possible to turn it only on for selected packages/package-ranges (e.g. only meta-package or only main)
<mvo_> the dependency-removal needs better support in aptitude and synaptic to be perfect
<Kamion> recommends-supports> that sounds like it might be worse to have in an incomplete state than not at all; send me/mdz mail if it needs to be deferred
<mvo_> but it is in good shape and I think I can get some more done within the week
<Kamion> dependency-removal can stay in there in partial form, I imagine
<mvo_> Kamion: it is complete, it is just not enabled by default yet. I talked with mdz about enabling it only for partial packages by default
<Kamion> ah, so at least people can do --with-recommends explicitly, ok
<mvo_> yes
<Kamion> anything left to do on the popcon specs?
<mvo_> beside advocating to get more people to enable it, no :)
<ogra> btw, ltsp has a popcon mode included for thin clients ;)
<mvo_> someone should blog about that great popcon thing
<Kamion> I imagine those can be marked Implemented then
<mvo_> ok
<dholbach> mvo_: didn't you just create a new blog? :)
<ogra> he did ????
* mvo_ blushes
<ogra> he needs a hackergochi !
<mvo_> dholbach: *shhhsssss*
<Kamion> command-not-found I've seen activity on today
<Kamion> apt-ddtp - that had some Soyuz work done, is it mostly complete?
<mvo_> Kamion: command-not-found is in the archive, if it gets installed it should work out of the box, its a matter of fine tuning the database now 
<mvo_> apt-ddtp is complete as well (modulo bugs and automatic imports/export of the translations, that is currently a manual process, I do the uploads)
<Kamion> ok, we have six more people to go and 12 minutes to do that in, eek
<Kamion> thanks mvo
<mvo_> thanks Kamion
<Kamion> ogra: ?
<ogra> * this-week:
<ogra>  - thinclient-local-devices - finished, hunting last bugs, included in knot2
<ogra>  - student-control-panel-completion - pete savage has nearly done the complete spec implementation (three cheers for him !!!), need to review the code
<ogra>  - ltsp-login-and-session-handling - good progress, ldm side done, the 20 line server bit needs packaging
<ogra>  - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration - slow progress ready for knot 3
<mvo_> ogra: you have 2 minutes :P
<ogra>  - fully-automatic-swap-server - reassigned to rodarvus
<ogra>  - knot 2 preparation
<ogra> * next-week:
<ogra>  - implement ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration
<ogra>  - finish ltsp-login-and-session-handling
<ogra>  - finish ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration
<ogra>  - merge remaining debian changes into ltsp
<ogra>  - fix gnome-session fade and logout handling on thin clients (and see if the latter is appropriate to backport to dapper)
<ogra>  - look into gnome-screensaver GL hacks supression
<ogra> * other specs: 
<ogra>  - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs - mdz requested i should do a meeting with infinity before feature freeze to run it on the livefs build machines (to be scheduled)
<ogra>  - ltsp-convergence: (no progress, multi distro meeting sept. 14th-19th)
<ogra>  - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (no further progress debian patches applied locally)
<ogra> mvo_, done :P
<rodarvus> dude, you have a lot to do next week :D
<ogra> right
<ogra> well, the gnome-screensaver stuff is a bugfix ...
<Kamion> I've made a note about the meeting with infinity; perhaps you could mail him and cc me, if you haven't already
<ogra> but likely intrusive
<Kamion> implement *and* finish ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration? :-)
<Riddell> and up to 45MB to remove from the edubuntu CDs
<ogra> Kamion, i havent yet, wanted to meet up next week some day
<Kamion> ltsp-login-and-session-handling is currently marked Not Started; I'll move it to good progress
<ogra> Kamion, right, now that i have a CD thats easier ;)
<ogra> thanks 
<ogra> i think i'm done tomorrow ... its quite trivial
<Kamion> ok, spec status looks manageable then, thanks
<ogra> Riddell, i dont care for the live cds yet ... its not what we ship, so its not highest prio for me
<Kamion> rodarvus: ?
<rodarvus> Done:
<rodarvus>  * Return from developers Sprint, recovering from X incident
<rodarvus>  * Ubuntu OLPC headhunting (two positions, ping me if you know someone)
<rodarvus>  * work on fully-automatic-swap-server
<rodarvus>  * Ubuntu OLPC administrativia
<rodarvus> Todo:
<rodarvus>  * X security updates are possibly needed, need to check those with pitti
<rodarvus>  * finish fully-automatic-swap-server (hopefully today)
<rodarvus>  * more headhunting
<rodarvus>  * Lots of documentation and administrativia for Ubuntu OLPC
<rodarvus>  * Some X.Org uploads (driver updates, last aiglx modifications)
<rodarvus>  * X "current status" email, describing whats done, whats missing, and what would be nice to have for edgy+1 (so someone can pick up from here)
<Kamion> sounds good. We'll give you more specs next time round ;-)
<ogra> haha
<rodarvus> as my weekly report tries to mention, I won't be able to give X much attention from now on (this is being repeted for the last few weeks :) ). Help on stuff that needs fixing before edgy is released is appreciated
<ogra> Kamion, i tried that .. and then he got X :)
<mvo_> rodarvus: we enable composite by default now, would it make sense to run a xcompmgr by default then too if we detect DRI?
<Kamion> we're in a much better position now with respect to X/Debian merging than we were in edgy
<ogra> yep
<rodarvus> I'll have my hands quite full with OLPC stuff from now on
<ogra> kudos rodarvus 
<Mithrandir> Kamion: s/edgy/dapper/?
<Kamion> er, yes, dapper
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: can we discuss more about how to do X for the rest of the cycle in #u-x afterwards?
* dholbach hugs rodarvus
<rodarvus> Mithrandir, sure, would be great
<rodarvus> thanks guys :)
<Kamion> mvo_: feels like edgy+1, but is a discussion for elsewhere anyway
<Kamion> thanks rodarvus
<Kamion> Keybuk: ?
<Keybuk> Done:
<Keybuk>  * OMGWTFBBQ
<Keybuk>  * ReplacementInit: in the archive, working on full compatibility for sysvinit so that we can replace that package with only elmo noticing
<Keybuk>  * BootMessageLogging: stalled pending completion of RI (which implements it)
<Keybuk> To do:
<rodarvus> mvo_, I don't think xcompmgr is necessary, is it?
<Keybuk>  * Figure out what I'm doing to the console that kills X
<Keybuk>  * Split sysvinit into sysvinit and sysvutils (pidof, killall5, last, etc.)
<Keybuk>  * Upload upstart that c/r sysvinit
<Riddell> lots of sladenporn from the BBQ, but no keybuk porn 
<Keybuk> Riddell: hmm?
<Riddell> later :)
* ogra guesses Keybuk sat in a cornet munching some food and hacking on upstart ;)
<Kamion> Keybuk: c/r sysvinit and depends: sysvutils, I guess
<ogra> *corner
<rodarvus> mvo_, we'd need to update it to latest version and promote to main too (we can talk about this later if you want, though)
<Keybuk> Kamion: the latter has to be an essential package anyway, but yes
<mvo_> rodarvus: I would like to talk about that at some point (maybe tomorrow, I will leave in ~30min)
<Kamion> ok, looking good. what's the probability that we have to defer replacement-init at this point?
<rodarvus> sure, lets do it tomorrow
<Keybuk> Kamion: at this point, I'm really happy with it, so I don't think we'll need to at all
<Keybuk> the main blocker now is just a code review from martin
<Kamion> excellent
<Keybuk> I've completely implemented runlevel compatibility
<Kamion> I'll do some code review early next week as well; remind me
<Keybuk> so "telinit 4" works for the freaks, and they can grovel in utmp for the runlevel, etc.
<ogra> pitto will have a hard week next week
<ogra> *pitti
<Kamion> thanks Keybuk, we'd better move on
<Kamion> seb128: ?
<seb128> This week:
<seb128> * played with aiglx, compiz, etc
<seb128> * packaged goocanvas, pygoocanvas, looked at uslab (contributor work on the new panel applet from Novel)
<seb128> * bug triage, bug triage, bug triage
<seb128> * some GNOME updates and desktop bugs fixed
<seb128> .
<seb128> Next week:
<seb128> * keep bug triaging
<seb128> * GNOME 2.16.0
* Kamion finds himself at a loss for what to do with no specs whose status he can check up on ;)
<seb128> hehe :)
<Kamion> how are desktop bugs holding?
<seb128> we are slightly catching up I think
<seb128> but there is still lot of them, we could use some extra hand 
<dholbach> we're barely able to stem the tide
<Kamion> I know the feeling
<Kamion> ok, well if anyone reading has spare time ...
<Kamion> thanks seb128
<Kamion> sfllaw: here? (worth another try)
<Kamion> Mithrandir: ?
<Mithrandir> sane-installer-keyboard: needs d-i upload, will do post-knot, as well as testing
<Mithrandir> live-cd-write-as-you-go:  no progress, will rescue
<Mithrandir> livecd-sessions: defer
<Mithrandir> misc: knot-2 release preparations - almost there now.
<Mithrandir> next week: live-cd-write-as-you-go: get it implemented, get the kde accessibility stuff implemented
<Kamion> Mithrandir: sane-installer-keyboard needs a ubiquity patch too
<Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, I know.
<Mithrandir> I'm a bit too good at keeping statuses in my head rather than in launchpad.
<Kamion> live-cd-write-as-you-go> depends on how much work it is; if it won't make it by FF, better defer it concentrate on finishing up everything else
<sfllaw> Kamion: Yeah, I'm here.  I'm ill.
<Kamion> s/concentrate/and concentrate/
<sfllaw> Just woke up.  Had a bad night.
<Kamion> oh, but live-cd-write-as-you-go was a fallback from livecd-sessions, hmm
<Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah.  I have to have something to do after FF too, if not fix bugs, then what? ;-P
<Kamion> Mithrandir: please mark livecd-sessions deferred in LP if you haven't already
<Kamion> Mithrandir: by definition, not features :)
<Mithrandir> Kamion: will do (haven't yet)
<Kamion> (and send mail to me/mdz about the deferral)
<Mithrandir> willdo
<Kamion> thanks for your good work on knot-2
<Mithrandir> I hope the freeze has been less painful for people this time around.
<Kamion> sfllaw: ok, you're excused then, get well soon
<rodarvus> Mithrandir, knot-2 was really great compared to knot-1. congratulations
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: it's not out yet. :-)
<Kamion> Mithrandir: also 50319 and copying accessibility defaults; let me know if you need me to take over either/both of those
<rodarvus> Mithrandir, will it take another 5 days? :)
<Kamion> 50319 is at least half mine anyway
<ogra> rodarvus, its not even fully tested
* BenC raises his hand
<Mithrandir> rodarvus: don't jinx it
<Kamion> BenC: yep, I think it's your turn now
<BenC> libata: Defered for edgy+1. UUID parts implemented for edgy (some bootloaders still need attention, but not as pressing an issue).
<BenC> kernel crash dumps: kexec-tools uploaded, need to add script for dropping to shell in initramfs and capturing the crash info.
<BenC> The rest of the kernel: Coming along well. Unfortunately, I was not able to get the big shiny new kernel update done in time for Knot-2, but it will be there for people to update to.
<BenC> Work last week: kernel bugs
<BenC> Work next week: them kernel bugs still
<BenC> .
<BenC> Have done a lot of work getting dapper bugs tested on edgy. Will continue this so that we can see what bugs are still affecting us, and which are fixed simply because edgy kernel is newer. Bugs that are still present across dapper/edgy will be pushed upstream. If bugs are fixed by edgy, will attempt to backport fixes for dapper.
<BenC> just want to make sure I wasn't forgotten like week before last :)
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I'll grab 50319
<Kamion> we should really get at least yaboot done before FF
<BenC> yeah, I have work-in-progress in yabooyt
<BenC> which will transfer easily to silo
<Kamion> good - I ran out of time for it :(
<Kamion> BenC: is the above all that's left from linux-kernel-crash-dumps?
<ogra> lets not do a 4 month cycle again !
<Kamion> amen
<BenC> Kamion: now that I figured out why my kexec-tools upload wasn't getting accepted, all that's needed is that script for initramfs...should be rather simple
<Kamion> BenC: ok, I'll mark it good progress then
<Kamion> right, and I think we're done
<Kamion> any other business before we close?
<ogra> only 12mins over :)
<Kamion> ok, let's move anything else to #ubuntu-devel
<Kamion> thank you all for your time; adjourned
<ogra> thanks Kamion 
<fschoep> OK, thanks Kamion, everyone.
<doko> thanks
<seb128> thank you
<ranf> bug #50319
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50319 in casper "Accessibility options are not preserved on installs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50319
<mvo_> thanks
<dholbach> thanks Kamion
<kwwii> thanks, see you next week :-)
<Arbiter> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu
<Arbiter> aawww CC at midnight!
<Burgwork> @now vancouver
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Vancouver: August 31 2006, 09:41:54 - Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 07 Sep 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-01
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 06 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 13 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Arbiter> @schedule Sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 06 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 07:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> ah yeah.
<Arbiter> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
<Arbiter> :)
<gnomefreak> @new_york
<gnomefreak> @schedule new_tork
<gnomefreak> @schedule new_york
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 05 Sep 18:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 08:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 16:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 16:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-09-03
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 06 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 07:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Sep 06:00: Technical Board | 14 Sep 06:00: Edubuntu
<simira> @schedule oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 06 Sep 00:00: Community Council | 06 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Sep 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Sep 22:00: Technical Board | 13 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-27
<summer_s4> did i miss the meeting?
<ionstorm> summer_s4, no meeting since 4pm since ive been here
<summer_s4> wut time is it now?
<summer_s4> what is utc?
<kraut> moin
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Screencast Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team
* popey coughs
<popey> 5 mins to the screencast team meeting
* popey gets some coffee
* Hobbsee pours some 3 week old coffee all over popey's chair, while he's not looking
* Hobbsee runs away again
* popey returns to a wet chair
<popey> ewwwwww
* popey suspects this will be a quiet meeting 
<popey> BONG! Screencast Team meeting start
<popey> Anyone here for the screencast team meeting?
<popey> This will be nice and quick then
<popey> * Current status
<Webspot> I'm here!
<popey> I have had little time to make or administer screencasts recently, however I now have quite a lot of time, so am planning to focus on the screencast team pretty much full time
<Webspot> Just got here.
<popey> :)
<popey> yay!
<Webspot> :)
<popey> I have some outstanding videos to process
<popey> these should be done over the next week or so
<popey> Hosting: We are now hosted by canonical \o/
<popey> which is currently down :(
<elkbuntu> heh
<popey> I will chase this up tomorrow when canonical staff are back at work, no sense bothering them on a bank holiday
<popey> there is another issue which is right now I don't have SSH / SCP access to the box
<popey> so currently i can't upload any new videos, but I suspect if I put them online on my own hosting, I could ask the admins to wget them onto the box
<popey> i would also like us to move from drupal 4.x to drupal 5.x but that can wait until the canonical guys have developed the drupal 5 ubuntu template we use
<popey> no hurry there, the site isn't broken as such
<popey> Ok, that's the current status..
<popey> any comments before we move on?
<Webspot> Nope.
<popey> * Growing the team
<popey> This I am a little stuck on..
<popey> one thing i think i need to do is stick to regular meetings
<popey> send out updates to the mailing list
<popey> etc
<popey> and keep uploading new screencasts to bring people in
<popey> we have been given screencasts by people who are actually hosting elsewhere
<popey> with a view to putting them on the site
<popey> which is fantastic, but I am concerned we don't have much "exclusive" content
<popey> i.e. we would then just be hosting stuff that can be found elsewhere
<Webspot> I think we should stick to our own content.
<popey> Suggestions for growing the team greatfully received!
<Webspot> On the site.
<popey> or have a section for "contributed content", i.e. not made by "Us"
<Webspot> Yeah.
<popey> where "us" = "the 'team'" ?
<popey> i want to link to other sites, cross promote etc
<Webspot> yeah
<popey> ok, glad that doesn't sound mad, will do that then
<popey> maybe not put them on the front page?
<popey> but have a link to them from the front page?
<Webspot> Yeah
<popey> ok, will do that
<Webspot> Sounds good.
<popey> ok, next topic may get some interest from outside, I hope it will at least
<popey> * Month Of Screencasts
<popey> A month of screencasts - one per day for the month of September - leading up to the release of gutsy in late October.
<popey> Week one: Fundamentals week
<popey> People who have probably never used Ubuntu, at least not in anger, probably never used Linux, or maybe not recently, and may not even be aware of FOSS on other platforms like Windows
<popey> Week two: Setup week
<popey> Same as above, but presumes they have watched the first week. Builds on that so that people who have installed Ubuntu but only have a basic grasp of computer use can pick up some useful information
<popey> Week three & Four:
<popey> Now we have brought people up to speed with the "What" and "Why", we move onto the more detailed good stuff like actually using your Ubuntu PC productively
<popey> Each video to be available as OGG and FLV _only_ initially
<popey> maybe available as AVI/MOV later - maybe on a pay-for DVD or something, I don't know, maybe only via torrent or something
<popey> but the rationale is that with only two video codecs to worry about things get a bit easier
<popey> less video processing and less time spent uploading
<popey> each video will be 20-30 mins long (max) and would go in depth on a particular subject..
<popey> here's my sample week one, starting this saturday (!) sept 1st
<popey> Day 1: Ubuntu - what is it!
<popey> Day 2: Linux - What is that too!?
<popey> Day 3: Freedom, Free and Open Licenses - not totally sure about this, but people need to know
<popey> Day 4: Why Use Ubuntu
<popey> Day 5: Getting Help - Forums, irc, mailing lists etc
<popey> Day 6: Tour of the Ubuntu desktop - What are all the icons you first see
<popey> Day 7: Tour of the Ubuntu Applications - What are all the icons on the Applications menu
<popey> Phew!
<popey> Second week looks a bit like this:-
<popey> Day 8: Installing Ubuntu - Overview of install process and what to do when things go wrong
<popey> Day 9: Networking fundamentals - Wi-Fi, LAN, ISP, modems, connection types, basic diags
<popey> Day 10: Updating the system - Bug fixes, security updates, proposed packages etc
<popey> Day 11: Installing software packages from repositories - standard repos and additional ones
<popey> Day 12: Manually installing software - gdebi / compiling (perhaps - pref not)
<popey> Day 13: Printer and scanner setup
<popey> Day 14: ealing with Troublesome Hardware - Wi-Fi, printers, scanners, Video cards, USB devices
<popey> Phew again!
<popey> Week 3 and 4 are still somewhat in a state of flux, here is a dump of some of the ideas :-
<popey> 	Choosing the right version
<popey> 	First steps - what you need to know about media playback
<popey> 	Playing media
<popey> 	Playing games
<popey> 	Themes
<popey> 	Email
<popey> 	IM
<popey> 	Writer, calc, impress, base
<popey> 	Scribus, project
<popey> 	Ekiga, Gizmo & Skype
<popey> 	Graphics
<popey> The last week might be called something like "productivity week"
<popey> the last two days of the month would be one day "getting involved" and one day "wrap up" for the month
<popey> and maybe the last one could also have Q&A
<popey> people could write in questions through the month and I'd record that one right at the end
<popey> some/most of these I will record up front - before the day they go live, and let drupal make the content availabale at midnight or something
<popey> comments/questions? :)
<Webspot> Do we have enough man power?
<popey> "One man can make a difference Michael" I believe it was said on Knight Rider :)
<Webspot> Lol
<popey> Well, in total it's 30 days, at a max of 30 mins a day thats 15 hours video
<popey> I have automated much of the post processing now
<popey> and a lot of it will just be talking into the Mic, with little requirement for funky demos
<popey> i am actually not working at the moment - "between contracts" so I have quite a lot of time :)
<Webspot> Good.
<popey> it will be quite a task, that's for sure
<popey> oh, and I have a week holiday in mid sept :)
<Webspot> It's my last two weeks off now, so I'll try and keep busy on this too.
<popey> so I definitely need to do them up front
<popey> excellent
<popey> We could use the mailing list for communication
<popey> one thing I don't want to do is release the videos early
<Webspot> Yeah. I signed up to it.
<popey> or release too much detail about whats in them
<popey> (so I saw ;) )
<Webspot> Has anyone else?
<popey> I have configured the RSS feeds on the site already
<popey> one other :(
<popey> once this month kicks in I think we will see more attention
<Webspot> Yeah.
<Webspot> Especially if it ends up on digg :p
<popey> indeed
<popey> i asked the canonical admins about disk space and bandwidth and they were fine
<popey> max it should take is 8GB disk space
<popey> for all the videos in 3 formats
<popey> s/.formats/sizes
<popey> so tomorrow I am going to make a promo video
<popey> day 0, if you like
<popey> which I will put on the site, and it will be the first video in the rss feeds
<popey> to basically pimp it a bit and get the word out, and hopefully get some people subscribing to the rss feed
<Webspot> Yeah.
<popey> questions/comments?
<popey> other than "you're mad"
<Webspot> Nope.
<popey> :)
<popey> which I have had already from other people
<popey> good, next thing..
<Hobbsee> popey: you're insane.
<Hobbsee> not mad.
<popey> :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<popey> ^^ see
<popey> * #
<popey> * Screencast workflow
<popey> The steps we go through are insane, too complex and need to be simplified
<popey> maybe less use of qemu, more use of vnc to the local host - to another user
<popey> make it easeir for people to contribute
<popey> I have had on my to do list for some time "make the screencast guide easier" but I haven't had the time to do it
<popey> it's now on my "must do real soon now" list :)
<popey> I had a meeting with Jono last week and he suggested that we attempt to to get some of the things we do integrated into a screencasting app
<popey> so for example the app could do the header/footer and so on
<popey> rather than having to use 8 different apps all over the place
<Webspot> Yeah, that would be useful
<popey> there is one screencasting app (commercial) - DemoRecorder (.com iirc) which is quite nice
<popey> I will contact the author - he seemed open to open sourcing it in the past, but that may not still be the case
<popey> would be nice if we could start with that, because it has some nice features that none of the others have - like almost zero cpu utilisation when recording
<popey> and video converters built into the product - not sure how useful they would be but still
<popey> i think this is a longer term idea which needs to be specced up
<popey> i.e. a specification for a screencasting app needs writing and putting on launchpad
<popey> I'll flesh out what Jono and I talked about and put it on the mailing list so we can have a chat about it in the open ok?
<Webspot> Ok.
<popey> it would be good if you could look at what you do to create screencasts, and figure out where the time/effort goes
<popey> a kind of time & motion study
<popey> figure out where we are wasting time
<popey> i think if we can make the process easier and more efficient we might get more people involved
<popey> what say you?
<Hobbsee> NI!
* popey gets a shrubbery
<Hobbsee> \o/
* Hobbsee pretends to be the hiccuping guard
<Hobbsee> (http://movingparts.net/2007/08/20/not-to-leave-the-room-even-if-you-come-and-get-im/)
* popey pokes Webspot 
<Webspot> The part that I spend the most time on is patching audio to video and joining it all up.
<Webspot> How will we make it easier?
<Hobbsee> use herrings
<Hobbsee> utilise the power of the raw herring
* Hobbsee shuts up
<popey> good question Webspot
<popey> i think we need to figure out all the time wasting bits and _then_ figure out how we fix them :)P
<popey> we'll discuss on the list yeah? :)
<Webspot> Yeah.
<popey> cool
<popey> next!
<popey> * Any other business
<popey> oh
* popey thought he had more on there than that
<popey> well, there is one other thing :)
<popey> In my meeting with Jono last week he suggested that screencasts should be "in" ubuntu
<Webspot> We could build a application to browse through them and play them.
<popey> meaning, you go to Help --> Videos in _any_ app and a popup comes up with a seclection of videos you can watch - streamed perhaps - over t'internet
<popey> exactly!
<popey> python + gtk + gstreamer, or qt for kde
<Webspot> Yup
<popey> I have a spec partly written and will put it on launchpad and then ping a mail to the list about it
<popey> anything else you can think of to discuss?
<Webspot> Can't think of anything.
<popey> excellent
<popey> last thing then..
<popey> * Next meeting schedule
<popey> two weeks today?
<Webspot> Yeah. Sounds good.
<popey> ooh
* popey checks the fridge calendar
<popey> so, same time on the 10th Sept?
<Webspot> Ah! Problem. Might not be home from sixthform.
<Webspot> Don't know my timetable yet.
<popey> duff day or duff time?
<Webspot> We could make the time an hour later.
<popey> or would the evening be better?
<popey> 8pm for example?
<Webspot> Should be alight that.
<popey> So 19:00 UTC on 10th Sept yes?
<Webspot> Yup
<popey> groovy
<popey> sorted, thanks for attending
* popey summarises meeting on the meeting page
<Webspot> Is there any particular screencasts I should start planning on?
<popey> for the month of screencasts?
<Webspot> Yup
<popey> "MoS 2007" as I am calling it ;)
<popey> tell you what, lets talk about it on the list after I post this detail about the meeting yeah?
<popey> will be all nicely formatted and everything
<Webspot> Ok.
<popey> doing it now
<popey> oh Webspot just remembered something
<popey> when the site moved to canonical hosting they deleted all the drupal accounts execpt mine, so I will need to re-create yours - probably just needs a password reset email sending - will do that when the site comes back
<Webspot> Ah right
<Webspot> I never need to log in really, anyway :p
<popey> unless you want to reply to comments to screencasts you have made?
<Webspot> Ah yeah. Forgot about that bit.
<Webspot> popey: Are the screencasts going to be planned in pretty much the same way, for the month of screencasts, as we do at the moment?
<popey> well. at the moment I have a separate page in my tomboy notes
<popey> for each screencast, and am making notes myself
<popey> is that what you mean?
<popey> I can make a page on the wiki once we nail down the schedule
<popey> I'd rather not heavily publicise the content before they are set in stone (i.e. recorded)
<Webspot> Ok. How do we choose who does what screencast then?
<popey> toss a coin :)
<popey> I don't mind myself
<popey> once I send the mail out, you can bagsy whichever ones you want :)
<Webspot> Ah right. Good :)
<popey> :)
<popey> ok, "offical" end of meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Aug 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-28
<Jester45> idk if anyone is here but would it be ok if i left my bot to log in here?
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o nalioth]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b *!*@vidd.vidd.us]  by nalioth
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o nalioth]  by nalioth
<Jester45> could you remove the ban or put it as jester*@vidd.vidd.us
<Jester45> i will not bring it back
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moinm
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 28 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | 28 Aug 21:00: Technical Board | 29 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 15:00: Community Council | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Server Team meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<mathiaz> hi all
<popey> o/
<jdstrand> hi
<sommer> hello
<zul_> heylo
<soren> o/
* Hobbsee waves a herring in greeting
* Mithrandir snatches Hobbsee's herring and runs off with an evil laughter
<Hobbsee> hey!
<nealmcb> saluton!
* Hobbsee stomps on Mithrandir's feet
* soren shakes his head and mumbles something about kids these days..
<soren> :p
* Hobbsee O:-)
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I've already run off.
* jdstrand is now curious about soren's age
* Hobbsee shakes her head and mumbles about old and decrepit people like soren
<nealmcb> handy link:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
* soren is 26 summers young..
<popey> don't be fooled jdstrand, he looks about 12
<jdstrand> heh
<soren> popey: Careful now.. :)
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:53. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
* jdstrand is feeling old at 36...
<mathiaz> let's get started... dendrobates is not here for now
<mathiaz> he'll join us a little bit later
<soren> slacker..
<soren> :)
<mathiaz> hi keescook
<soren> Hey, kees.
<keescook> heya folks
<keescook> I was sitting in the #server-team channel wondering where everyone was.  ;)
<mathiaz> so the agenda for today's meeting is  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
<mathiaz> The previous meeting logs are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070814
<mathiaz> well. we didn't organise a doc day as suggested by jono during last meeting.
<soren> ACTION: Tell MootBot the correct time. :)
<mathiaz> let's try to get one organized next friday.
<mathiaz> the 7th of september
<soren> Sounds good to me.
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  organise a doc day for Friday, September 7th
<MootBot> ACTION received:  organise a doc day for Friday, September 7th
<mathiaz> jdstrand: what's the state of the default LAMP install page ?
<jdstrand> infinity (who doesn't seem to be here now) expressed an interest in the meeting that he wanted to do it
<jdstrand> I talked to him after the meeting and we decided he would
<nealmcb> mootbot: for the record, the time is now 15:09:00 UTC so you are about 9 minutes slow....
<soren> Is there a bug about it? That would make it easier to track it..
<jdstrand> I followed up with him, and he said he will still do it, but hasn't had time yet
<mathiaz> I think there is a bug about it
<mathiaz> at least there is a bug about the default apache2 website.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: could you file a bug about this ?
<soren> mathiaz: That's sort of different, though.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: yes
<jdstrand> I'll follow up with infinity on it as well
<soren> mathiaz: I expect the LAMP one will use PHP and MySQL for stuff. The default apache2 should not make any assumptions about the presence of neither PHP nor MySQL.
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  jdstrand will file a bug for a default page for the LAMP tasks and follow up with infinity
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jdstrand will file a bug for a default page for the LAMP tasks and follow up with infinity
<mathiaz> I've updated the factoid about webmin
<mathiaz> !webmin
<ubotu> webmin is no longer supported in Debian and Ubuntu. It is not compatible with the way that Ubuntu packages handle configuration files, and is likely to cause unexpected issues with your system
<mathiaz> does this seem correct ?
<nealmcb> mathiaz: thanks - that is better.  I'm still hoping to be able to point people to specific problems it has caused, if anyone has any stories...  or mentioning debconf or something.
<soren> Well, yes. I thought it would just shout "NOOOOO!!", though :)
<nealmcb> :-)
<mathiaz> I haven't seen any other factoid that needs to be updated. Ideas ?
<nealmcb> I imagine there are some things for which it or something similar would be useful.  e.g. how do people allow clerks to update /etc/aliases?
<soren> nealmcb: clerks?
<soren> nealmcb: Like junior admins?
<nealmcb> i.e. folks who know who should get email, but don't know how to log in with ssh and edit files
<nealmcb> soren: yeah
<soren> nealmcb: I have a web interface for that.
<soren> nealmcb: I don't use /etc/aliases. I store that sort of config in a mysql db.
<soren> I've been planning to make a package for that, but haven't worked on it for over a year.
<soren> I should probably write a spec about it for gutsy+1.
<nealmcb> soren: well, a solution we could point small site admins to that works with supported packages would be nice.
<soren> dendrobates: Hey, rick.
<dendrobates> hello all.
<nealmcb> could ebox do that?
<mathiaz> there is a list of all the factoids: http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<mathiaz> dendrobates: hi.
<dendrobates> dsl still not fixed, so I could drop at any time.  But I 'll come back asap.
<nealmcb> mathiaz: I posted a list of other missing factoids on the previous agenda - I'll look
<mathiaz> nealmcb: ok. So you'll look throught the server related factoid and see if anything could be improved ?
<soren> nealmcb: Yes, eBox has a mail module. I haven't really looked much at it, though.
<nealmcb> oops - my confusion - it's still there on the agenda :-O
<nealmcb> webmin, mail, mua, mta, pop, imap, nic, openssl, inetd.
<mathiaz> what about adding a task to the documentor section of the roadmap ?
<nealmcb> I've seen  many email conversations and being able to get ubotu to clarify mta and mua would be handy
<nealmcb> I can do that
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  nealmcb will add a task to the documentor section about updating the factoids for server related questions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nealmcb will add a task to the documentor section about updating the factoids for server related questions
<mathiaz> as for the openssh task,
<mathiaz> it's been added to tasksel.
<soren> Right. Suggestions for additional tasks are welcome.
<mathiaz> It hasn't made it for tribe-5, due to bad timing.
* jdstrand thanks keescook for openssh task
<mathiaz> But it's on the server cd now.
<keescook> :)
<nealmcb> great
<mathiaz> dendrobates: you wanted to talk about new tasks ?
<dendrobates> yes.  I wated to discuss possible tasksle tasks, now that ssh-server is sucessfully added.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  New tasks for tasksel
<MootBot> New Topic:  New tasks for tasksel
<dendrobates> Does anyone see a need for any more install tasks?
<dendrobates> Perhaps a samba file server?
<jdstrand> dendrobates: this is for gutsy, not gutsy+1 or farther?
<soren> Gutsy.
<mathiaz> I could think of a file server, mail server
<dendrobates> gutsy: if we have a important task, it could still be added.
<soren> Yes, mail server seems obvious, but is a bit tricky.
<mralphabet> proxy server?
<mathiaz> file server would just include installing samba ?
<dendrobates> I think we should think about low hanging fruit.  Things that will be fairly easy, but make installation easier for admins.
<soren> We have to settle on one mail server to rule them all :)
<jdstrand> should file-server also nfs?
<jdstrand> s/also/also include/
<dendrobates> I consider that a different task, but it could be argued.
<soren> I agree with dendrobates. It's a different task.
* nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> adding new tasks to tasksel that would just install one package is not really a good idea
<soren> Neither should be called "File server", of course.
<dendrobates> I think samba would be the most helpful, esp. since we are putting off ebox.
<mathiaz> Well - I think it would make sense to have a file server task that would install samba and nfs.
<jdstrand> I agree with not pulling in both, but agree with soren that it should not be named 'file-server'
<dendrobates> We need to name it in a way that is both truthful and would be understood by a novice admin.
<jdstrand> dendrobates: yes
<mathiaz> yeah.. that's why I'd install both nfs and samba
<soren> dendrobates: Something like "Samba (Windows file sharing)" ?
* nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> so that a novice user can serves his file to windows client and unix clients
<jdstrand> then there are three
<mathiaz> that's what you get when you buy a NAS appliance
<jdstrand> what soren said, "Unix File Server' and "General Purpose FIle Server"  or similar
<nealmcb> but what other things will they run into?  all the authn and AD stuff etc
<dendrobates> Is the samba package simple enough to configure, that it would make a good task.
<soren> jdstrand: "General Purpose File Server"? Is that NFS?
<dendrobates> nealmcb: that's what I mean.
<jdstrand> soren: both
<soren> jdstrand: Oh. :)
<jdstrand> soren: obviously the wording would have to be better since you didn't get it!  :)
<jdstrand> "Samba + NFS (Windows and Unix file sharing)
<mathiaz> I'd call it 'File server'
<dendrobates> mathiaz: you are familliar wirth the samba package.  Could it be easily configured to be useful.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: it works OOTB
<jdstrand> maybe this Samba + NFS is good for the task, since just smaba or just nfs are installing one package
<jdstrand> do those separately
<mathiaz> jdstrand: +1
<nealmcb> why would people want both samba and nfs?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: to server windows client and unix clients
* soren wanders off to answer the door.
<dendrobates> I have seen both in certain situations, but we only need to worry about the most common use cases for tasks.
<sommer> Would you enable a Samba share by default?
<nealmcb> of course some will, but as one of the few "tasks" I'm afraid folks would end up with either nfs that they don't want, or samba that they don't want.
<dendrobates> sommer: no
<nealmcb> dendrobates: right
<sommer> gotcha
<dendrobates> user should be able to select at install, maybe.
<mathiaz> hum... It seems that this needs more discussion. Who would like to look into this and send a proposal to the mailing list ?
<dendrobates> It would need to be pretty quick.
<mralphabet> Could Task Select set up a default read only share?  Then the script could say "To view your files on the network, browse to //{server ip or hostname}/default_share/"
<jdstrand> perhaps the question of whether or not single package tasks to make it easier for users is worth exploring more
<mathiaz> from what I understood from tasksel, tasks should not be used to install just one package
<mathiaz> openssh was an exception to the rule I think
<jdstrand> most devs seem to not like it-- but the convenience for users is obviously a good thing
<dendrobates> However it is the easiest way to get an option into the installer, afaik.
<nealmcb> for ssh server it made sense since that is necessary to even do more remote installs.  but the argument for other single-package tasks is harder
<dendrobates> We need to thank about the users.  We don't want useless cruft, but if it makes things easier it is a good idea.
<mathiaz> so.. noone wants to draft something and start the discussion ?
<nealmcb> but I'm not arguing against single-package tasks, if they help novice sysadmins and don't get them in trouble
<sommer> I can do it if no one else is wants to.
<sommer> the ml discussion that is.
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  sommer will send a draft to the mailing list about a file server task in tasksel
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer will send a draft to the mailing list about a file server task in tasksel
<mathiaz> sommer: just a mail to kickoff the discussion
<mathiaz> sommer: and may be you could add an item to the roadmap ?
<nealmcb> sommer: thanks
<sommer> mathiaz: sure no problem
* soren wanders back in
<soren> A task can't "do" anything.
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  sommer will update the roadmap to add a task for the file server.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer will update the roadmap to add a task for the file server.
<soren> A task is simly a "selection of packages".
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  review the triagger section of the roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  review the triagger section of the roadmap
<soren> To have it automatically add a share of any sort, there would need to be a package doing the hard work and the task would have to include that package.
<mathiaz> so we had decided to triagge bug for apache2
<mathiaz> that took me a couple of hours to do.
<mathiaz> so I've updated the roadmap for php5.
<soren> mathiaz: You're done?
<mathiaz> soren: for the apache2 bug in New,Unconfirmed yes
* soren hugs mathiaz 
<soren> Cool!
* soren still has about 700 unread lp mails from his holiday
<mathiaz> soren: that doesn't mean I've fixed or triagged all of them
<dendrobates> mathiaz: your'e a mad bug triager.
<mathiaz> I've just had a look at it.
<mralphabet> soren: ahh, that makes more sense, thanks
<mathiaz> anyway - we're on php5 bugs now.
<dendrobates> we should all try to help him more.
* dendrobates looking guilty
<soren> Alright. PHP5 it is.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  review the packager corner
<MootBot> New Topic:  review the packager corner
<mathiaz> I think there is nothing new for the watch files.
<mathiaz> and fernando doesn't seem to be around
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  review the tester corner
<MootBot> New Topic:  review the tester corner
<dendrobates> I sent all the ldap-auth-client stuff upstream to Debian.
<mathiaz> I'd like to discuss hardware testing for tribe-6
<dendrobates> mathiaz: I have repaired my sparc box.
<mathiaz> I'm trying to organize hardware coverage for tribe-6.
<mathiaz> so who has some 'server' hardware that could be used to some iso testing ?
<dendrobates> mathiaz: we should try a very specific post to the mailing list.
<mathiaz> The idea is to know if ubuntu-server can be installed on the main brands (dell poweredge, hp proliant, ibm xserver, etc...)
<soren> I have a Dell Poweredge 1750 (I think), that's just collecting dust. I could fire it up, I guess.
<mathiaz> dendrobates: and also a very simple testing and reporting infrastructure.
<mathiaz> I've looked into smolt to gather hardware profiles.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: also a request in the the forums, might be useful.
<mathiaz> I'm still wondering what's the best way to manage the reports for tribe-6.
<mathiaz> There is the ServerTesting team, that uses wiki pages for each model
<mathiaz> it's modeled after the LapTop testing team.
<nealmcb> is it mainly about new servers, or do regressions happen often for older server hardware?
<mathiaz> both
<soren> REally? Are there a lot of regressions?
<soren> I didn't know.
<mathiaz> the more we have hardware coverage, the better
<dendrobates> sometimes vendors repair older models with slightly different chip versions.
<mathiaz> well. I still have to work on it.
<dendrobates> but, I wouldn't think we would have many regressions.
<soren> Sure, sure, but that's not a regression on our part. I was thinking more along the lines of stuff that worked on edgy which doesn't work on Gutsy.
<dendrobates> in the older hardware.
<dendrobates> soren: I know.
<dendrobates> I'm just talking about reasons to test the older models.  To a customer it is the same.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  review documentor section
<MootBot> New Topic:  review documentor section
<mathiaz> sommer: what's the state of the wiki pages ?
<mathiaz> sommer: I've seen you've done some work on the server guide also.
<sommer> I updated the page on Dovecot and added a page to configure Dovecot to use LDAP
<soren> dendrobates: Sure.
<sommer> also sent a patch with some very minor changes for the official Dovecot Doc
<sommer> sort of ran out of ideas after that on what to edit
<mathiaz> sommer: I've used it to setup a dovecot. It worked :). Thanks for your help.
<sommer> started looking through the CategoryCleanup articles
<sommer> mathiaz: welcome :)
<mathiaz> sommer: is there a lot of server related pages in the cleanup category ?
<sommer> There really didn't seem to be to many
<mathiaz> hum.. may be we could target the server guide then.
<sommer> CategoryCleanup looked mostly to be desktop things, but I haven't look very close
<mathiaz> I'm still pointing people to the server guide to install basic tasks.
<mathiaz> So it may worth checking the server guide is up to date for gutsy.
<sommer> Since PHP5 is the current Bug theme I can look through and work on updated any guides for PHP.
<mathiaz> sommer: that seems great... :)
<dendrobates> I will certainly need to update any info on ldap auth
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  sommer will look through the documentation to update php5 related pages.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer will look through the documentation to update php5 related pages.
<sommer> I also think a gutsy server guide review is a good idear
<mathiaz> sommer: could you list the wiki pages that would need to be updated in the roadmap ?
<mathiaz> sommer: so that people can start working on it if they want.
<sommer> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> [TOPIC]  review the developer corner
<MootBot> New Topic:  review the developer corner
<mathiaz> sommer: thanks.
<mathiaz> for AppArmor, I'm blocked on the latest version of the kernel
<mathiaz> there are some problems with unionfs and the live cd.
<sommer> so is AppArmor going to be part of gutsy?
<mathiaz> sommer: it's already there.
<mathiaz> sommer: it's just not the latest version.
<sommer> ah...AppArmor is on my list of things to learn
<mathiaz> sommer: there is a guide on help.ubuntu.com
<mathiaz> sommer: you're welcome to read through it and poke around.
<dendrobates> As for ebox, we have decided that there is not enough time to get it ready for Gutsy, so it is deferred.
<dendrobates> But soren is still working on it, and can give us updates.
<soren> Well, I haven't really looked at it since I got home from my honeymoon. Um..
<dendrobates> I don't mean an update now.
<dendrobates> I mean going forward.
<soren> Well, major parts of it are ready, but there are a few obstacles in the way, that makes it impossible for me to upload certain parts of it.
<soren> I may keep working on it during the gutsy cycle (in my own time), but as dendrobates said, it's deferred for now.
<soren> dendrobates: Oh, I thought that was my cue. :)
<dendrobates> I had only told you, so I needed to say something.
<mathiaz> ok. we're running out of time.
<jdstrand> mathiaz: soren's comments about tasks gave me an idea regarding the file server tasks.  If you don't mind, I'll send the email to the ml.
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ok.
<dendrobates> jdstrand: Go ahead.
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  jdstrand will send a email to the ml regarding the file server task
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jdstrand will send a email to the ml regarding the file server task
<dendrobates> anything else, before we go?
<mathiaz> Next meeting will be held in two weeks
<mathiaz> same time, same place.
<nealmcb> who is organizing the doc day?
<soren> dendrobates: Ah, ok. I've blogged about it, too.
<dendrobates> soren: cool
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I'll send an email about it.
<nealmcb> cool
<mathiaz> [ACTION]  mathiaz will organize the doc day.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will organize the doc day.
<nealmcb> :-)
<nealmcb> mathiaz: you're doing a great job!
<mathiaz> Alright. Thanks all for your attention.
* soren hugs everyone
<soren> See you next time!
<mathiaz> See ya in two weeks.
<sommer> later all
<jdstrand> bye!
<keescook> bye
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:04.
<mathiaz> nealmcb: thanks.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Aug 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team
<mjg59> Ok, just waiting to see if anyone else is actually going to turn up...
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: Current meeting: Technical Board | 29 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 15:00: Community Council | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team
<Daviey> mjg59: It's okay.. i'm here now - we can start :D
<mjg59> Looks like we don't have enough members to be quorate, I'm afraid
<mjg59> mdz is busy at a mobile meeting in the US, I haven't heard anything from Scott or Mark
<popey> thats a shame
<mjg59> And don't seem to have current phone numbers for either of them
<popey> I have scotts
<Daviey> I'm suprised mdz isn't here for this meeting
<mjg59> He's stuck in a meeting in Boston
<mjg59> Scott's in the gym
<mjg59> (He thought we were next week)
<mjg59> So I think we'll have to defer
<Daviey> 2 weeks time?
<mjg59> Probably, yes
<mjg59> Sorry about that!
<popey> np
<sabdfl> hi all
<sabdfl> did i get the time wrong?
<Mithrandir> about an hour wrong, yes.
<sabdfl> all done?
<popey> postponed
<popey> 20:17:40 < mjg59> So I think we'll have to defer
<popey> 20:17:55 < Daviey> 2 weeks time?
<popey> 20:18:12 < mjg59> Probably, yes
<popey> 20:18:38 < mjg59> Sorry about that!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 19 Sep 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-29
<hjmf> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 13:00: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 19 Sep 20:00: Xubuntu Developers
<sbalneav> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<ogra> sbalneav, lol
<ogra> sbalneav, s/\!/\@/
<sbalneav> @schedule winnipeg
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Winnipeg: 29 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 07 Sep 19:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 14:00: Screencast Team | 19 Sep 15:00: Xubuntu Developers
<sbalneav> Knew it was something.
<sbalneav> Time for lunch!!!!
<ogra> dinner, but yeah :)
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 15:00: Community Council | 08 Sep 02:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 21:00: Screencast Team | 19 Sep 22:00: Xubuntu Developers
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 19 Sep 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<LaserJock> are we on?
* LaserJock taps mic
<RichEd> hi LaserJock
<ogra> HEYA !
<RichEd> yep ... ogra will chair
<RichEd> speak of the devil :)
* ogra waves
<stgraber> hi
<sbalneav> Hello to all my internet friends
<ogra> soo, i prepared a report according to RichEd's structure ...
<ogra> les see how that new meeting format goes :)
<ogra> Where are we in the development cycle:
<ogra>     What was the last deadline ?
<ogra>     Item Tribe 5
<ogra>     Date August 23rd
<ogra> What is the next deadline ?
<ogra>     Item Tribe CD 6
<ogra>     Date September 6th
<ogra> Progress over the last week
<ogra>     * lots of ltsp bugfixes
<ogra> Items needing to be sorted out for the next deadline
<ogra>     * bug 121547
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building process hangs at 50% on Tribe1 CD" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
<ogra> Issues needing assistance for the next deadline
<ogra>     * docs (sbalneav has started here)
<ogra> Any Other Items under Artwork
<ogra>     * give feedback :)
<ogra> Any Other Items under Documentation
<ogra>      * new ltsp functionallity needs to be documented /(nbd and friends from my side, ldm from scott)
<ogra>      * documentation should get a tech review (i.e. our server documentation recommends 60M only per client i just discovered) before string freeze
<ogra> Planned Activities for coming week
<ogra>     * main focus for me: fix bug 121547
<ogra> everybody cheer for sbalneav .... he moved mountains last week in ltsp
* RichEd leads the cheer
<sbalneav> I'm moving the doc mountain now :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i'm stuck on the CD building mountain :/
<ogra> but i'll tackle as many bugs as i can
<LaserJock> I'm stuck in a muddy creek at the bottom of the valley
<sbalneav> ogra: Don't worry about nbd docs, I'll take what's on the LTSP without NFS page, and expand/add to it, and get it into the handbook.
<LaserJock> trying to make it to base camp
<sbalneav> Als, I'm topicifying some of the handbook, but I'll talk about that wehn we get to that item in the meeting.
<ogra> sbalneav, well, ltsp-update-image has no manpage, wikipages need to get looked over and the new functionallity needs to be described there
<ogra> there is more :)
<sbalneav> I'll write a manpage.
<ogra> gah, that was not the intention ...
<sbalneav> I'll handle the handbook, if someone else can do wiki.
<LaserJock> well, we should really make a list of what needs to get documented
* ogra really starts to fear to tell sbalneav whats missing ... scott will get a heart attack one day ... 
<LaserJock> can we just throw up a quick wiki page?
<LaserJock> ogra: hehe
<sbalneav> SOMEONE needs to do it, and you've already got a ton of cd, tribe, and other issues.
<ogra> we need more blood !!!
<sbalneav> You must construct additional pylons.
<LaserJock> hmm
<ogra> well ...
<LaserJock> I guess I should tell the wife it's time to start having kids
<sbalneav> spawn more overlords.
<LaserJock> so I can turn them into Edubuntu developers
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ogra> i see that the ML gets more and more traffic
<LaserJock> which one?
<RichEd> LaserJocklets ?
<LaserJock> hmm, that doesn't sound right
<ogra> LaserJock, great plan ... they can be devs *and* users :)
<RichEd> LaserJocklettes ?
<ogra> lol
<LaserJock> well, I was wondering about the CMPC
<LaserJock> I've got two neices
<LaserJock> that are starting to get old enough the might get interested
<LaserJock> I think CMPC+gcompris would be a nifty thing
<RichEd> LaserJock: how have you found the usability like of the CMPC device ... size ... robustness  etc
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I like the weight
<LaserJock> screen is a little hard on my old eyes
<LaserJock> keyboard is a tad small, as is expected
<LaserJock> but there's some real issues with Windows on that thing
<LaserJock> IMO
<ogra> heh
<ogra> who would have guessed
<LaserJock> I can't install Adobe Acrobat Reader on it
<LaserJock> it's got no swap
<ogra> how is the speed ?
<LaserJock> and I can't seem to get it to make a swapfile
<ogra> its got NO L2 CACHE !
<LaserJock> I installed pidgin, Firefox, etc.
<ogra> thats way worse than no swap
<LaserJock> I find it very speedy
<LaserJock> the RAM is the only problem
<ogra> yeah, windows ...
<LaserJock> I've been writing on a book in it even
<LaserJock> so I've got FF with a few tabs open and MS Word
<LaserJock> I think it's pretty darn nice
<LaserJock> the processors seems fine
<LaserJock> and when I load it up as a thin client it's rather nice
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> the screen resolution is going to be a big problem though
<LaserJock> Windows seems to handle it better than Ubuntu did
<ogra> with the apps you mean ?
<LaserJock> yes
<RichEd> gen 2 will be 9" and not 7"
<LaserJock> like Xcaht
<LaserJock> I can't reach any of the OK/Cancel buttons in the preferences
<LaserJock> the Preference type dialog windows are the worst
<ogra> thats for nearly all settings windows the case
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> something with a scrollbar is generally fine
<LaserJock> but the make the darn windows so you can't shrink them
<LaserJock> *they
<ogra> yup
<ogra> will need fixage
<LaserJock> but as far as hardware
<LaserJock> very nice
<LaserJock> I'm going to try to pick up a 2GB SD card for it
<LaserJock> and check that out
<ogra> will likely be a lot slower than the flash disk i guess
<LaserJock> well, I was specifically looking for some faster disks
<LaserJock> but yeah
<ogra> get an external USB HD :)
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure if I have money for that
<LaserJock> but that's a good idea
<ogra> well, you can use it for other stuff as well ... its a great backup thingie ...
<ogra> i even do my test installs to one since gutsy started :)
<ogra> well, anyway ...
<ogra> edubuntu-users has some more traffic since some time imho
<LaserJock> ogra: can you post to edubuntu-devel yet?
<ogra> seems we get more and more intrested users ... we sould channel that
<sbalneav> It's been picking up quite a bit.
<ogra> with my other mail address that should work, yes
<LaserJock> ogra: excellent
<sbalneav> We're actively getting K12LTSP users switching now
<LaserJock> I would like to get -devel picked up too
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> it seems like much of -devel is mostly -users related
<ogra> i'd like to see eric in boston and hear his plans ...
<sbalneav> Problem is, most devel work goes on in #edubuntu or #ltsp
<LaserJock> I'll try to use -devel more to spark discussion
<ogra> most -devel posts are cross posted to -users
<ogra> and get answered on -users then
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, but some people like Gavin and I aren't on IRC much anymore
<ogra> s/most/many/
<LaserJock> and IRC is really bad when you need to reference
<sbalneav> agreed.
<LaserJock> I have such a bad memory
<LaserJock> it's nice to have an email to go back too
<sbalneav> Perhaps, when we solve a problem on IRC, a quick "Here's what we decided in #edubuntu today" mail might help.
<sbalneav> I'll try to remember to do this more often.
<LaserJock> doesn't hurt
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> Only when I breath.
<LaserJock> I feel pretty left out sometimes because of my TZ and real life stuff
<LaserJock> I *know* you all are having a blast in #edubuntu ;-)
<sbalneav> Yeah, finish up that degree, and get hired by Canonical, would you?
<LaserJock> yeah yeah
<LaserJock> I think I need a bumper sticker that says "I'd rather be pbuilding"
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> RichEd: We need tshirts that say this for the next UDS.
<ogra> thats a cool one !
<ogra> we should have that in the ubuntu store :)
* ogra would put it on his car :)
<RichEd> ogra: they should have a suggestion list for new products
<sbalneav> So, what part of the meeting are we on?
<LaserJock> my big tasks for gutsy are to 1) help moquist where I can on moodle  2) make sure the addon-enhancements are finished off 3) make sure docs get uploaded, etc.
<ogra> sbalneav, well, we only have tech
<sbalneav> No doc?
<RichEd> yes ...
* RichEd scrolls back
<LaserJock> I can see if I can get a couple MIRs in, but I'm not sure what I'll get too
<ogra> sbalneav, the new meeting structure has tech once a week and a "normal" meeting twice a month
<ogra> (iirc)
<RichEd> well eduntu-user meeting not "normal"
<LaserJock> well, we still talk about the technical doc stuff right?
<RichEd> *edubuntu
<RichEd> where are we now on the agenda you pasted ogra ?
<ogra> sbalneav, and i prepare a short tech report like i pasted above and then the meeting is open for tech discussion and questions
<RichEd> we need to raise these items first:
<RichEd> Any Other Items under Artwork
<RichEd> <ogra>     * give feedback :)
<RichEd> <ogra> Any Other Items under Documentation
<ogra> well there are noew images on eh wikiage ... everyone have a look :)
<RichEd> for artwork ... see this for samples from our new volunteer
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
<RichEd> ogra ... you looked during the week, there are new ones since the last meeting
<LaserJock> oh wow
<LaserJock> that first one is fantastic
<ogra> the first one is perfect
<sbalneav> ++ for the first one.
<LaserJock> it's got a mature feel to it even, not so kiddie neccesarily
<ogra> but the logo is a bit to much in the face in all of them for my taste
<stgraber> +1 for the first one
<LaserJock> yeah, if you can alpha the logos  a bit
<ogra> add your comments on the wiki
<LaserJock> so it's more watermarked
<sbalneav> 3rd one will be nice for the kiddies.
<ogra> so jill can pick them up
<LaserJock> the are all quite nice actually
<sbalneav> They are.
<sbalneav> Include 'em all, says I
<ogra> i'll check the space
<ogra> i'll try to get some samples in for tribe 6
<LaserJock> we could also make a ubuntu-addon-artwork if we got a good collection
<LaserJock> I think schools would be interested in having a variety
<RichEd> can we all comment on #1 and see if we can get that one good enough for the default ?
<ogra> edubuntu you mean ?
<sbalneav> Yeah, just put it on the addon cd.
<LaserJock> blah, yes
<ogra> hey hey
<LaserJock> edubuntu-addon-artwork
<sbalneav> There's still lots of room on that, yes?
<ogra> the addon CD isnt endless
<LaserJock> well, yes and no
<LaserJock> ogra fills the remaining space with lang packs
<LaserJock> which I think are valuable
<ogra> (Laser asked for incliding 140M oo.o clipart today)
<LaserJock> heah
<LaserJock> it was a good idea ;-)
<ogra> it is :)
<ogra> but the addon CD only has 700M
<ogra> and i'm not sure yet what to do with the DVDs
<ogra> they are pretty oversized
<LaserJock> oh really?
<ogra> (and we have no specific seed to adjust anything on them)
<LaserJock> I was actually going to have a look at the DVD
<sbalneav> I think shipit should just send 250 gig preinstalled hard drives :)
<ogra> edubuntu/dvd: gutsy-dvd-amd64.iso oversized by 650883072 bytes (5351256064)
<ogra> edubuntu/dvd: gutsy-dvd-i386.iso oversized by 686366720 bytes (5386739712)
<sbalneav> That'd solve the problem.
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> can we create a dvd seed?
<ogra> sbalneav, that would dissolve canonical pretty quickly as well i guess :)
<ogra> LaserJock, i dont think so ...
<LaserJock> bah, Mark's loaded ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> we should discuss that then
<ogra> i havent taken a deep look at what's on the DVD at all yet ...
<LaserJock> it's no good having DVD .isos that nobody can use
<ogra> i'll have to do that and plan to do so before tribe 6
<LaserJock> the live CDs seem to be making it so far
<LaserJock> we'll see what else Ubuntu piles in there before release
<LaserJock> they've already gotten rid of the lang packs I think
<ogra> they tend to break every now and then
<ogra> but we're in good shape atm
<ogra> even though the langs we'll be able to ship will be very limited on the liveCD
<LaserJock> are we supposed to get any artwork from the artwork team/Canonical?
<ogra> well, ken will make the default themes easily changeable wrt color etc ...
<ogra> i'll just apply out colorscheme on top of the ubuntu stuff ....
<ogra> worked well in feisty
<ogra> (see gdm)
<ogra> we dont have a desktop splash anymore ...
<ogra> thats makes it all a bit easier
<ogra> for usplash we'll surely get somwthing adapted from kwwii if he changes ubuntu
<ogra> but we wont get any wallpapers or so ...
<ogra> so what jill offers is whats likely to end up on the CD
<sbalneav> kwii?  Is that pronounced "kwee", or is it the kde version of world war 2?
<LaserJock> ok great
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hehe, he gets that a lot
<RichEd> kwwii = kenneth w**** wimer II
<RichEd> nor sure of the middle name
<RichEd> *not
<sbalneav> heh
<ogra> sbalneav, thats ken, he likes to play with his nintendo :P
<ogra> kw wii :)
<LaserJock> so
<sbalneav> Only buttons
<LaserJock> I was wondering what you guys thought about doing an Edubuntu Bug Day
<sbalneav> \o/
<LaserJock> maybe after Beta is released
<ogra> after tribe release would be good i guess
<LaserJock> or tribe would be good
<ogra> so we catch some before beta
<sbalneav> esPECially after all the new ltsp improvements.
<ogra> and another one after beta
<LaserJock> we'd need to make sure we have the technical backing
<LaserJock> so people aren't stranded
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> but I thought it might be a good way to get some bugs crushed and get some new people perhaps involved
<sbalneav> I could take a day off work, hang around the house.
<ogra> well, if i'm around i'm in ubuntu-bugs as well anyway
<ogra> i usually catch the ltsp bugs faster there than they arrive in my mailbox
<ogra> but thats a very limited number anyway
<sbalneav> You uploaded the new ltsp stuff yet?
<ogra> even the amount raised a lot compared to feisty ... thats a very good sign for more users imho
<ogra> nope
<ogra> will do right after the meeting
<sbalneav> ogra++
<LaserJock> I'd like to see what we can do about some edu app bugs too
<LaserJock> I try to have a look at them every once in a while
<ogra> squeak could need an adopter
<LaserJock> and went through all the gcompris ones once
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> yeah, we've got a few of them, and they're not really going down.
<ogra> (nobody attending the meeting)
<sbalneav> Lot of people using squeak?
* ogra throws a look at sbalneav 
<LaserJock> I want to grab that other packaging
<LaserJock> as I think it's better
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> I just didn't have time :(
<sbalneav> What?!?  What'd I do?!? :)
<LaserJock> but it might be a fun project for an edu person wanting to get into packaging
<ogra> there is also a lot of request for an amd64 version
<ogra> sbalneav, nothing
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure about the amd64 stuff
<LaserJock> I thought #squeak told me it was 32bit only
<ogra> me neither
<ogra> right
<ogra> the thing is that we by default dont disable possible arches
<ogra> the ackages with binary blob content we have there are just available on all arches
<LaserJock> a couple of the bug emails seemed to indicate that it might work on other aches
<ogra> the vm package isnt since it doesnt build on anything but i386
<LaserJock> in any case we should fix it so it only builds on the arches it should
<ogra> we could try to enable it for amd64 and listen for feedback
<ogra> (if it builds)
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> ogra: is there any good day of the week for you when it comes to bug crushing?
<ogra> wednesday is bad if we have the early meeting
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> what about the thursday after Beta?
<LaserJock> Tribe 6 rather
<ogra_> grr
<ogra_> thursdays i have an internal canonical meeting ... (15:00 UTC fixed)
<sbalneav> Hello, evil ogra.
<ogra_> beyond that i'm open
<LaserJock> Friday?
<LaserJock> make it a Fix-it-Friday
<sbalneav> ++
<ogra> ++
<ogra> sounds good
<ogra> so the friday after tribe 6 and the friday after beta ?
<LaserJock> ok, I'll announce and blog?
<ogra> ++
<sbalneav> ++
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> ok, we're hitting the hour ...
<sbalneav> is it can be doco tiem now pleez?
<LaserJock> do we need to get out?
<RichEd> nope ... just trying to keep it to an hour in general
<ogra> not really, but i expected the new format to srten the meeting, not to make it loger
<sbalneav> ok, gimme 2 minutes, I'll be fast.
<RichEd> sbalneav: go ahead
<LaserJock> ogra: we were running 2 hrs so it's still shorter ;-)
<ogra> LaserJock, 1h for tech
<sbalneav> ok, so doco work has begun, and I'm working on documenting all the new stuff.
<sbalneav> Part of the whole "topic based help" issue is me breaking up the big "customizing ltsp behaviour" sections into topics
<sbalneav> so, ldm
<sbalneav> printing
<sbalneav> display customization,
<sbalneav> etc.
<ogra> do you know whats involved to build the edubuntu-docs package ?
<sbalneav> No.
<sbalneav> I'm just committing to the svn
<ogra> hmm, me neither ... LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> well
<ogra> would be nice if scott couls also build the source :)
<LaserJock> I do a svn export and then move some directories around and remove unnecessary ones
* ogra secretly points to https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
<LaserJock> hmm, good point
<sbalneav> what I was going to ask was, could doco interested people keep an eye over the next week or so (i guess up until the 13th) and send me feedback on how they feel the handbook's progressing?
<LaserJock> I can add the necessary documentation for building the source package
<ogra> that'd be great
<LaserJock> I think we should really be testing the .debs out
<LaserJock> and how they look in Gnome Help
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> yelp has changed a lot
<ogra> sbalneav, make a call on the ML :)
<LaserJock> so I want to make sure things don't end up weird
<ogra> so you also get feedback from teh regular user
<sbalneav> will do.  Devel or users? or both?
<ogra> users
<ogra> or both
<ogra> i see some gutsy tester on -users ...
<ogra> so that makes sense i guess
<sbalneav> Also, any good wysiwig xml editors people can recommend?
<sbalneav> I'm doing everything in vi at the moment.
* ogra only knows conglomerate ... but that was very crashy last time i tried
<sbalneav> I looked at that.  It's not wysiwig.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> there is *no* wysiwig XML editor
<LaserJock> that's been a problem in the doc team
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> vi it is then.
<LaserJock> it create a definite barrier to contribution
<ogra> LaserJock, nvu/kompozer ?
<LaserJock> not for our docs
<ogra> sad
<LaserJock> we have so many includes, etc.
<LaserJock> most things just choke
<sbalneav> ok, well, that's all I had.
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> any ad-hoc topics ?
<SpudDogg> Sorry to butt in here fellas, but is there a reason you are going to use vi?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> cause it works
<sbalneav> Suggest something else.  I'm all ears.
<SpudDogg> what about nano/pico?  too noobish?
<ogra> SpudDogg, cause we know it :)
<LaserJock> SpudDogg: not noobish, just not as feature full for doc editing
<sbalneav> Using vi's like using a steam engine.  Pico would be walking. :)
<SpudDogg> i see.  i've been meaning to learn to use vi, but i havent had a reason to yet :)
<ogra> SpudDogg, if you want to contribute docs and ant to use nanao for that, feel free, we wont care what you used to create them ;)
<LaserJock> exactly
<ogra> really, the outcome counts :)
<LaserJock> heck, we might even let you use gedit ;p
<SpudDogg> i'm too much of a noob to write docs for anyone, lol
<ogra> or a secretary if you can afford one ;)
<SpudDogg> damn gedit, even I dont use that
<sbalneav> ogra++
<LaserJock> there are several Ubuntu Documentation people who use gedit
<LaserJock> it's not too bad once you get the plugins enabled
<ogra> SpudDogg, well, you could read them and ask about stuff thats badly formulated or sounds weird as well ;)
<SpudDogg> alright, i'll leave you guys alone...i'll go get a secretary
<ogra> no need to produce anything to contribute time ;)
<ogra> anyway, lets end this meeting (nless anyone has another topic to discuss)
<ogra> speak NOW !
<ogra> going once ....
<ogra> going twice ....
<ogra> you could still speak up ...
<ogra> adjourned !
<ogra> thanks everybody :)
<SpudDogg> welcome
<RichEd> thanks ogra ... and all
<SpudDogg> ;)
<LaserJock> thanks
<RichEd> see you on the morrow
* RichEd heads off for the night
* ogra finally gets some late dinner
* SpudDogg goes to get a secretary
<ogra> heh
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 03 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 07 Sep 19:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 14:00: Screencast Team | 19 Sep 15:00: Xubuntu Developers
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 19 Sep 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-30
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<kraut> moin
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-08-31
<kraut> moin
<Hobbsee> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<RoterKobold> hello
<Pricey> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 31 2007, 21:01:45 - Next meeting: Community Council in 2 days
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-01
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 11 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Sep 13:00 UTC: Community Council | 04 Sep 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 00:00 UTC: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team
<ds500ss> /reg
<ds500ss> /nickname ds500ss
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-09-02
<kraut> moin
<suksit> leave
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 03 Sep 08:00: Community Council | 04 Sep 10:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 07:00: Edubuntu | 07 Sep 19:00: MOTU Team | 08 Sep 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Sep 14:00: Screencast Team
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 03 Sep 23:00: Community Council | 05 Sep 01:00: Kernel Team | 05 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Sep 10:00: MOTU Team | 09 Sep 03:00: Xubuntu Developers | 11 Sep 05:00: Screencast Team
<Zobjo> 'lut
<Zobjo> effraie : es tu l, je voudrais te parler stp !
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-25
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 Aug 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<joseamunoz> nick joseamunoz
<joseamunoz> nick josea.munoz
<joseamunoz> nick josea
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-26
<joseamunoz> Test
<amachu> elkbuntu: persia: Hi
<amachu> lifeless: Hi
<elkbuntu> hi
<elkbuntu> 20 mins yet!
<amachu> elkbuntu: Just checking availabilities
<elkbuntu> i know :)
 * persia is present
 * elkbuntu has pinged themuso
<joseamunoz> Hi
<lifeless> hi
<joseamunoz> I hope this is the right place for Membership Candidates Meeting
<persia> joseamunoz: It is.
<elkbuntu> yes, but you've 17 minutes left :)
<joseamunoz> thanks :)
<elkbuntu> tuxmaniac, here?
<elkbuntu> we has quorum
 * tuxmaniac reports
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: yep.
<elkbuntu> excellent
<amachu> hi
<tuxmaniac> amachu: hi
<amachu> Hello every one!
<persia> Do we also have lousygarua?
<joseamunoz> amachu: Hi
<amachu> elkbuntu: persia: lifeless: Hi
<amachu> TheMuso: Hi
<TheMuso> hi amachu
<amachu> belutz and zakame?
<amachu> aanjan?
<tuxmaniac> yes
<amachu> hi
<tuxmaniac> hi
<lifeless> hi amachu
<amachu> amireldor?
<amachu> joseamunoz: Hi
<amachu> Fine then..
<joseamunoz> amachu: Hi
<amachu> We shall start...
<amachu> we have quorum today :-)
<persia> \o/
<amachu> tuxmaniac: Please go ahead introducing yourself and your contributions to the Board
<tuxmaniac> amachu: thank you.
 * tuxmaniac starts
<tuxmaniac> Hello Everybody. This is Aanjhan Ranganathan (pronounced as Anjan) currently residing in Chennai, India.
<tuxmaniac> I have updated my wiki ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Aanjhan ) with most of the information about my relationship with Free Software and more specifically Ubuntu. Having given an opportunity now to say a few words, I would like to highlight a few contributions.
<tuxmaniac> Major contributions have been towards the Ubuntu India loCO team and the MOTU Science team.
<tuxmaniac> Been with the LoCo team ever since it was formed. Major work includes adminstering the Server (movement from old canonical server to our own new server was one major task recently accomplished), recently conducted a couple of Bug Jam preparatory sessions along with good friends techno_freak and slytherin on IRC.
<tuxmaniac> and the Global bug Jam also was well received among the local community. We stood 5th in thenumber of bugs triaged.. Yay! :-)
<tuxmaniac> As with the MOTU Science team, I have been actively involved in constantly monitoring the Debian packages and trying to maintain sync between Debian and Ubuntu wrt these packages.
<tuxmaniac> these == science packages.
<tuxmaniac> Also have packaged a few software like Alliance, Magic, IRSIM, gResistor which are all lying in REVU and Debian Mentors due to license issues (expecting an update from upstream). Helped triaging bugs related to Science packages especially Electronics related.
<tuxmaniac> I have also submitted a few debdiffs, .diff.gz for sponsorship into the Universe repos
<tuxmaniac> the most recent being for bug 260158 today morning :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260158 in gabedit "[ftbfs] 2.1.8-2 falils to build on intrepid pbuilder" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260158
<tuxmaniac> I also have been blogging for nearly two years now and have done several posts under the Category "Ubuntu" which gets fed to Ubuntu Webblogs. One can find my blog at http://blog.tuxmaniac.com Apart from this I go to Universities in India and evangelise Ubuntu and Free Software (more specifically Electronic CAD tools)
<tuxmaniac> My road ahead with Ubuntu: I find very few people who are looking into core Science packages and often these are the ones I beleive are left not updated. Hence, my focus will be on Maintaning the sync with Debian and upstream and also package new science tools that would make Ubuntu, a better distro for Engineers and Scientists as well. eventually I am targetting in becoming a MOTU and continuously support the Ubuntu India LoCo in all it
<elkbuntu> cropped
<elkbuntu> "India LoCo in all i"
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: where? I am seeing it on the screen
<elkbuntu> tuxlinux, the last line you said. you will see it all because you wrote it. it's other people's clients that crop it
<tuxmaniac> aah ok :-)
<elkbuntu> errr, tuxmaniac ^^
<elkbuntu> but, you've said alot already
<elkbuntu> +1 from me on motu and bug work, as well as rallying others to do the same
<tuxmaniac> can I mention a few words about acouple of people who helped me get this far?
<TheMuso> Straight +1 from me also. I thought you were already a member I've seen your nick around a fair bit in the last year or so. Great work, and keep it up!
<elkbuntu> we seem to have lost amachu
<tuxmaniac> TheMuso: thanks
<persia> +1 from me based on work done (bugs, patches), active involvement with LoCo team including presentations and appearances, and excelent testimonials on the wiki page (plus leftover bias from my +1 opinion a fortnight ago)
<elkbuntu> amachu, do you need scrollback or do you know this clown well enough? ;)
 * tuxmaniac wants to mention and thanks Laserjock and bddebian for their continuous support extended
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: hehe
<lifeless> tuxmaniac: I get a theme of strong coding work
<amachu> I am also in Chennai, and I know his contributions
 * elkbuntu suspected as much
<lifeless> I;m interested in your community contributions more, for this council
<amachu> we belong to same LUG
 * techno_freak cheers tuxmaniac :)
<tuxmaniac> lifeless: as in to the Ubuntu India loco?
<lifeless> for instance
<elkbuntu> lifeless, i believe he has done this. his visits to the unis and organising the bug jam things are community
<tuxmaniac> lifeless: well in general if you consider Free software community, I have been presenting a lot on Free Software Science tools to a lot of Universities.
<lifeless> elkbuntu: bug jam is kinda blurry; but don't get me started
<techno_freak> tuxmaniac, D/U Project Day ;)
<elkbuntu> lifeless, that shouldnt make the intent any less
<tuxmaniac> lifeless: http://tuxmaniac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=26 <-- has the presentations made
<tuxmaniac> those dont have the duplicate presentations made at other places
<lifeless> elkbuntu: I think we all need to apply our own judgement here, I'm not criticising your opinions; allow me the latitude to ask the questions to form mine, please.
<tuxmaniac> and as techno_freak mentioned, we organised Debian Ubuntu Project day at FOSS.in last year. where we got several people from both debian and ubuntu communities to talk and share ideas. We had a Ubuntu Stall and distributed stickers etc
<elkbuntu> point taken
<amachu> elkbuntu: only smart diff is that I am more into language mode..
<lifeless> ok, I'm +1
<tuxmaniac> lifeless: thank you.
<amachu> +1 from me too.
<tuxmaniac> thanks amachu
<lifeless> The thing that makes me plus one is the organising of things
<lifeless> rather than doing individual talks (many active coders talk about their interests :)).
<amachu> lifeless: organising of things?
<lifeless> e.g. debian/ubuntu project day at FOSS.in
<lifeless> amachu: ^
<tuxmaniac> lifeless: techno_freak and slytherin have been very helpful in that. So we could do a lot of things
<elkbuntu> we still have two more people to do, lets not make them wait
<amachu> TheMuso: ?
<TheMuso> amachu: I've given my vote, +1.
<amachu> fine then, tuxmaniac - Welcome!
 * tuxmaniac jumps in joy!
<tuxmaniac> thanks everybody
<amachu> let me call, amireldor
<techno_freak> congrats tuxmaniac :)
<tuxmaniac> thanks techno_freak
<amachu> amireldor doesn't seem to be here
<amachu> joseamunoz: are you there?
<joseamunoz> amachu: yes
<amachu> please go ahead presenting yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu
<joseamunoz> Hi All, first of all I would like to sorry for my English. (I'm not native)
<joseamunoz> I am 35 and I live in Madrid
<joseamunoz> I started with computing engineering 15 years ago and I knew Linux 7-8 years ago.
<joseamunoz> After playing with several distros, Debian was taught by a colleague of mine 4 years ago
<joseamunoz> and also he show me Ubuntu
<joseamunoz> I started to play with Ubuntu one year ago and, after two months of enjoying it :)
<joseamunoz> I started to write in a very famous Spanish Managazine
<joseamunoz> Linux +
<joseamunoz> I'm good in systems and networking, although my knowledge in program is very poor
<joseamunoz> So, my way to contribute is to show the spanish people how good is Ubuntu distro in different scenarios
<joseamunoz> I confirm you I wrote 9 articles and now I'm doing the 10th
<lifeless> each article is in a separate edition of the magazine?
<joseamunoz> It depends. Last month I wrote 2 articles
<joseamunoz> And the one I'm writting now is going to be divided in two parts
<joseamunoz> In the professional environment
<lifeless> If I may ask, what do you do for employment?
<joseamunoz> Do you mean in my job?
<lifeless> yes'
<joseamunoz> Right now I'm IT Manager in the Air Liquide Group Company in Spain
<lifeless> so these articles are from your own time, not from your job?
<joseamunoz> Yes
<lifeless> very cool
<lifeless> anyone else have questions?
<joseamunoz> I would like to add one thing
<joseamunoz> :)
<lifeless> sure
<joseamunoz> I have a friend working in a very important company in Spain (This is reflected in one of the articles)
<joseamunoz> This company has implemented Ubuntu
<joseamunoz> with Zabbix
<joseamunoz> after reading the article and testing the power of Ubuntu
<amachu> lifeless: I would like to hear about your involvement with Sapnizh LoCo community
<lifeless> amachu: perhaps you mean joseamunoz ?
<amachu> lifeless: yes
<amachu> :-)
<joseamunoz> :)
<joseamunoz> Really, I'm very new in the Loco community (Last week), so I don't have to many to offer. I'm talking with the responsibles
<joseamunoz> to do asap documentation
<joseamunoz> and to be involved in their projects
<joseamunoz> I really like the CUPIE one
<joseamunoz> One I like is to teach and offer people my knowledge
<joseamunoz> and I think CUPIE will make me happy
<elkbuntu> joseamunoz, your wikipage kind of mentions bug reporting and QA. how many bugs have you reported?
<joseamunoz> I hope to be involved ASAP
<joseamunoz> From the time I'm using ubuntu about 10-15 (not too much)
<joseamunoz> I always try to fix or to find a workaround and
<joseamunoz> share it asap
<joseamunoz> As I told you, I'm not good in code or programming
<joseamunoz> only system problems of functionality are the ones I usually report
<joseamunoz> About QA, I have 4 years of experience, so
<joseamunoz> although it is not my passion, I will be happy to help doing some test
<joseamunoz> This is me :)
<joseamunoz> I think thats all. If you have any question...
<lifeless> any other questions?
<amachu> elkbuntu: persia: TheMuso: ?
<TheMuso> No questions from me.
<persia> No, I don't have any questions.
<amachu> joseamunoz: and I cannot get the info on CUPIE, its in spanish. whats its about briefly?
<persia> I'm very pleased with the articles, but without history of involvement in the LoCo, history of work with the Documentation, Translation, or QA teams, or much else beyond the articles, I'm feeling there isn't quite enough to vote +1.
<joseamunoz> C.U.P.I.E. is a Spanish project to extend the Ubuntu knowledge as much as possible
<amachu> joseamunoz: ok. Thank You.
<joseamunoz> https://launchpad.net/~cupie
<elkbuntu> sorry, my bip proxy disconnected me again. did my vote get through?
<elkbuntu> persia has worded my vote much better than I did, so i'm just going to point to what he said and say 'me too'
<lifeless> I think the consistent effort over time of the articles is enough for a +1 - consistent over time is one of the most important things
<joseamunoz> Thanks
<lifeless> so my vote is +1
<persia> Indeed.  The articles are excellent, and it's very nice to seem them continuing.
<amachu> I would like to see joseamunoz's involvement with community more..
<elkbuntu> i agree the articles are good, but i havent read them.
<joseamunoz> anachu: I will do
<amachu> independently its great to have contributed through articles on Ubuntu
<elkbuntu> by good i mean, a good contribution.
<amachu> joseamunoz: are there people here to back you?
<joseamunoz> amachu: no
<elkbuntu> however, i dont know if they're quality or not. i can point to many ubuntu articles that are less than ideal.
<amachu> would have also been great had the wiki been provided with few Testimonials
<joseamunoz> I can confirm you all the articles are deeply reviewed
<joseamunoz> before being published
<joseamunoz> but, it is difficult to show here
<elkbuntu> amachu, the wikipage i think is sadly taking up a url that could be better used too :(
<joseamunoz> If you go to the <here> link, you will see the last two months
<joseamunoz> with my publications
<joseamunoz> http://www.lpmagazine.org/prt/view/pag-prin.html
<amachu> joseamunoz: the contributions are continuos and independent. Its great. Had there been one or two here to back your efforts, would have
<amachu> it would have been great, and would have added value in giving +1
<joseamunoz> thanks
<amachu> TheMuso: ?
<TheMuso> I think +0 as well. I haven't read articles so I am unsure of their quality, but some testimonials would have been nice. Please keep up your efforts however, and return to us when you think you have more to present to us.
<joseamunoz> ok. thanks for your time
<joseamunoz> I will do
<lifeless> uhm
<amachu> joseamunoz: thanks for turning up today. would like to see you back with a strong back up
<lifeless> protocol question
<elkbuntu> joseamunoz, you have good potential
<lifeless> what do we need for approval, as a total ?
<lifeless> consensus, >0 ? > 2 ? no negatives ?
<joseamunoz> thanks
<amachu> lifeless: we are seven in board, four in favour should do good, if all seven present
<amachu> nod from four is the protocol
<persia> I think +4 is good.
<joseamunoz> I let you now. Thanks again for your time and see you next time. I will prepare myself with a strong background for the next months
<amachu> tuxmaniac: Welcoming you again
<persia> I certainly thing joseamunoz is doing excellent work, but just needs a bit more of the newer involvement.
<joseamunoz> I hope you will be really happy next time
<lifeless> I think > 1/2 of attending members actually, so that if we only have 4, we don't have to be unanimous
<amachu> joseamunoz: Best wishes for you. Hoping to see your contributions more and be back :-)
<persia> joseamunoz: Looking forward to seeing you again.
<joseamunoz> bye :)
<amachu> amireldor: there?
<persia> lifeless: I'm good 1/2+1 of attending members, so for +3 for 4-5 members and +4 for 6-7 members.
<persia> Would that meet your goals?
<lifeless> persia: yes, that fits what I was thinking :)
<amachu> elkbuntu: what do you feel?
<persia> OK.  I just wanted to avoid +2 with 4 or +3 with six, which to me would indicate indecision: perhaps not the best support behind a new member.
<elkbuntu> there needs to be a buffer, but i agree .5 is too large a buffer
<amachu> TheMuso: ?
<TheMuso> makes sense to me
<lifeless> persia: > != >= :)
<amachu> :-)
<amachu> it takes two third of majority on crucial decisions :-)
<elkbuntu> i wouldnt call memberships 'crucial'
<amachu> I think, minimum quorum need to be met (4 of us present), and 1/2+1 in favour should do good
<elkbuntu> how do the other councils manage such situations?
<elkbuntu> s/council/board/
<amachu> we shall discuss more, may be involving other's opinion also and decide at mailing list
<lifeless> did we have a 3rd applicant?
<amachu> lifeless: Amir Eldor isn't present
<persia> lousygarua signed up, but isn't here.
<amachu> persia: fine then. is that all for the day? anything else?
<persia> Is everyone OK with the idea that we just always reach quorum?  Does anyone need to miss some meetings?
<Seveas> elkbuntu, EMEA wants half+1 of attending, and at least 4 attending members
<Seveas> (maybe even at least 5, not sure)
<lifeless> same as we're proposing here
<elkbuntu> Seveas, thanks. always worth having a standard that we all adhere to
<amachu> Seveas: yes. we will confirm with the team too
<amachu> We will confirm with other team too...
<amachu> is there anything else?
<amachu> fine then, it appear all are in deep thinking. let me call off today's meeting
<elkbuntu> s/thinking/snoozing/
<Seveas> @now sydney
<amachu> our next meeting will take place on Sep 02, Tuesday 11.00 UTC
<ubottu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: August 26 2008, 22:12:57 - Next meeting: Server Team in 2 hours 47 minutes
<elkbuntu> yes, not quite stupid-o-clock
<amachu> thank you everyone for turning out today :-)
<tuxmaniac> thank you all for approving my membership.
<elkbuntu> tuxmaniac, you deserved it!
<TheMuso> thanks
<tuxmaniac> elkbuntu: thanks. and just as a sidenote, did you receive my forward reading FOSS.in announcement?
<tuxmaniac> regarding*
<Igorot> heh, dinner. day-off ako ngayon
<Igorot> er.. sorry guys. wrong channel
<lifeless> well gnight the
<mdz> #startmeeting
 * ogra woders which one ... nothing on the fridge
<mdz> tech board, which has been in this time slot every 2 weeks for ages
<mdz> I don't know why the fridge doesn't know about it or how to fix that; if you do, please help
<ogra> but nobody bothered to update the frdge ... community meetings somewhat relyon the fridge schedule for this room
<ogra> hmm, there was a mail addy to poke ...
 * ogra digs
<mdz> agenda items: 1. status of cdrtools discussion, 2. gobby co-maintenance with Debian, 3. revisiting limited upload privileges for kernel and printing packages
<ogra> oh, nobody has put 2.6.27 up ?
<sabdfl> hello all
<mdz> I asked pgraner about 2.6.27 this morning and he said that we should discuss after he discusses with the team
<ogra> ah
<mdz> there is still active discussion on the mailing list and I think it would be premature to take it to the tech board to resolve
<jjesse> @schedule Detroit
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 26 Aug 11:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 13:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 18:00: Platform Team | 28 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 09:00: Desktop Team | 01 Sep 00:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<mdz> agenda items: 1. status of cdrtools discussion, 2. gobby co-maintenance with Debian, 3. revisiting limited upload privileges for kernel and printing packages, 4. board membership/nominations
<mdz> despite the fridge not knowing about it, this is the regularly scheduled meeting of the Ubuntu Technical Board
<jjesse> sorry to interupt
<ogra> just mailing fridge-devel
<mdz> jjesse: no problem, I'll see about getting that fixed after the meeting
<mdz> oh, thanks ogra
<james_w> ogra, mdz: news-team now
<james_w> fridge-devel is dead
<mdz> MootBot seems to be unresponsive at the moment
<mdz> [TOPIC] status of cdrtools discussion
<ogra> james_w, oh, the fridge still links it automatically for adding events ... thanks
<sabdfl> afaik joerg hasn't responded to my suggestion that we both agree to respect an SFLC finding
<mdz> sabdfl proposed getting an opinion from the SFLC, but has asked Joerg to agree to make it binding before going to that trouble and expense
<mdz> after a week or so, he asked what was happening, and this was restated
<mdz> I haven't seen a response to that yet
<mdz> anything else on this topic?
<sabdfl> we could see if the Sun folks are interested in that analysis too, which would make it binding on joerg in all the places where it is shipped or under consideration
<mdz> I don't have any contacts there, and as I recall, Joerg didn't seem to either
<sabdfl> i'll mail sun
<sabdfl> nothing else form me on that front
<mdz> [ACTION] sabdfl to contact Sun regarding cdrtools
<mdz> [TOPIC] gobby co-maintenance with Debian
<mdz> Philipp Kern, maintainer of gobby in Debian, is interested in helping to maintain gobby in Ubuntu main
<mdz> he's a MOTU since October 2007
<ogra> (and was very helpful in edubuntu in the past)
<mdz> he hasn't contacted us directly, but spoke to sabdfl at DebConf
<mdz> I'm happy for us to consider granting special upload privileges
<ogra> i asked to sponsor him for an UDS ... we somehow missed out on that (and i forgot it for prague, sorry)
<sabdfl> we've had positive reports of the "limited upload rights" capability from Mario
<sabdfl> i explained to pkern that our main concern was folks thinking they had a monopoly on a package
<sabdfl> he seemed very aware of the potential issues and sensitive to the ubuntu style
<ogra> well, he surely knows the code best as upstream would be my counter argument
<sabdfl> his point, that he could maintain it while it was in universe as a MOTU but no longer can help since it moved to main, is very valid
<sabdfl> ogra: i don't follow?
<sabdfl> is pkern also an upstream for gobby?
<ogra> sabdfl, pkern wrote gobby
<ogra> right
<sabdfl> aha
<ogra> and he is been a very active and helpful motu in the past as well, he surely knows the ubuntu way
<sabdfl> anyhow, i'm +1 in this case, and generally positive this sort of approach where we believe someone understands ubuntu and is sensitive to the idea that they don't have a monopoly
<ogra> (i'm not as active in motu myself to judge his recent participation though)
<mdz> as Debian maintainer and upstream he surely knows the package well enough, and MOTU is sufficient to me to affirm that he knows the basics of how things work in Ubuntu
<mdz> I think it's fine, +1
<mdz> [ACTION] mdz to arrange upload rights for gobby for pkern
<mdz> [TOPIC] revisiting limited upload privileges for kernel and printing packages
<mdz> on a similar note, we've granted core-dev privileges to a couple of MOTUs interested in working with specific packages in main
<mdz> with the proviso that they were to follow standard sponsorship processes for other packages
<sabdfl> till, tim gardner,... ?
<mdz> now that Launchpad has the capability to implement this directly, I think we should revisit this and just grant those specific upload rights
<mdz> sabdfl: yes
<mdz> thoughts?
<sabdfl> +1 from me, are there any other?
<mdz> I believe that's all
<persia> Those are the only two people I know of that have had restrictions requested at the time of approval.
<sabdfl> at the moment, our options for permissions are: component ("main") and package ("linux-2.4.27")
<sabdfl> how valuable would it be to be able to have groups of packages handled in this way?
 * ogra would propose stgraber for italc uploads but i guess he needs to ask himself first 
<sabdfl> like: "java-core" or "gnome-desktop", where those package sets can be defined and refined on an ongoing basis?
<mdz> with the ArchiveReorganisation plan, upload rights would map to seeds, which provide a nice way to group packages
<mdz> I think that would be sufficient for this use case as well
<persia> That helps for gnome-desktop, but not for e.g. java-core or mozilla
<mdz> they've thought through the questions about how changes in dependencies, etc. would be dealt with
<mdz> persia: I see no reason it couldn't be applied that way
<persia> mdz: OK.  That works.
<mdz> splitting java packages out of a more general seed for access control seems reasonable
<mdz> I expect that we would do this on logical groups of packages, rather than random collections of them, anyway
<persia> Certainly, and likely only for groups of packages with existing maintainer groups.
<sabdfl> i would expect package sets could be aggregations of other package sets
<mdz> like the java and mozilla examples
<sabdfl> "server includes java core"
<mdz> sabdfl: seeds are hierarchical as well
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> ok, that's useful info, i'll try and get to Colin w.r.t. ArchiveReorganisation
<persia> Some Java-core is desktop only, but that's mostly irrelevant to this discussion.
<mdz> desktop includes standard includes minimal etc.
<sabdfl> thanks
<mdz> ok, I'll follow up with Tim and Till
<mdz> [ACTION] mdz to follow up regarding upload access control for Tim (kernel) and Till (printing)
<mdz> [TOPIC] board membership/nominations
<mdz> sabdfl asked for nominations from the community, and received a fair number of responses
<sabdfl> i haven't approached any of the nominees to establish their willingness to serve
<mdz> is that the next step?
<sabdfl> i would only approach some of them, need to take a view on the ones we think would make great candidates
<mdz> I've weighed in on all of them
<mdz> [ACTION] sabdfl to contact the candidates and confirm their interest
<sabdfl> ok, i will contact the ones we think would be good, and see if they are willing to stand in a vote
<mdz> [TOPIC] AOB
<mdz> anything else?
<mdz> ok, thanks all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<sabdfl> thanks mdz
<ogra> thanks
<nijaba> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 26 2008, 14:48:46 - Next meeting: Server Team in 11 minutes
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
<jjesse> finlly a server team mtg i remember
<mathiaz> hello !
<nijaba> o/
<zul> hi
<mathiaz> anyone around for the meeting ? (except zul nijaba and jjesse) ?
<jjesse> nope :)
<nijaba> we feel lonely today
<dendrobates> o/
<jjesse> i saw dendrobates join the channel
<mathiaz> well - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<soren> o/
<soren> -ENOMOOTBOT
<mathiaz> hm - MootBot doesn't seem to be around :/
<nijaba> not even a bot for the meeting
<dendrobates> hello mootbot!
<soren> That's the worst turnout evar.
<Koon> o/
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<mathiaz> I wasn't there last week - and haven't seen any minutes
<mathiaz> is there anything left from last meeting ?
<Hobbsee> mathiaz: it's responding in PM, so...
<Hobbsee> #start meeting
<Hobbsee> hmm
<jjesse> mootbot didn't work in the tech board mtg held previously
<mathiaz> so nothing from last week meeting
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap
<mathiaz> As you may know, Thursday is FeatureFreeze for Intrepid
<mathiaz> The current roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
<mathiaz> soren: ?
<soren> I'm going to upload something tonight.
<mathiaz> soren: do you plan to blog about it ? or write up some documentation ?
<soren> I'm trying hard to squeeze in all the features I've been thinking of, and then expect to polish them after Thursday.
<soren> mathiaz: I'm adding a lot of API documentation inline.
<soren> I'm trying to get pydoc to generate some external API docs for me.
 * nijaba hugs soren
<mathiaz> soren: great !
<soren> but that's new territory to me, so I need to wrap my head around that first.
<soren> It doesn't seem very complicated, though.
 * nijaba feels bad to have not made more time for uvb
<mathiaz> soren: writing documentation ?
<zul> writing documentation sucks
<sommer> :(
<nijaba> zul: do you mean to say something to sommer?
<mathiaz> nijaba: are you planning to update your tutorial about uvb ?
 * Koon hugs sommer and shields him from zul's mentos throwing
<nijaba> mathiaz: which one?
<mathiaz> nijaba: once soren uploaded his work ?
<soren> mathiaz: Well, getting on top of the documentation system.
<nijaba> mathiaz: I'll gladly make one
<mathiaz> nijaba: you wrote a tutorial about uvb for hardy (the one published in the linux jounral IIRC)
<nijaba> mathiaz: no uvb in that one
<nijaba> mathiaz: but I could definitely update it to include uvb
<mathiaz> nijaba: ah right - it was about jeos
<mathiaz> sommer: which section should be updated in the server guide to cover the new uvb stuff from soren ?
<nijaba> mathiaz: the virtualization section
<sommer> yep the virt section
<sommer> it's on my list to update... I was thinking next week?
<mathiaz> sommer: seems like a good plan
<sommer> o//
<mathiaz> the next step is for soren to upload his new stuff
<mathiaz> then sommer and nijaba can start to have a look at it and update the documentation
 * nijaba agrees
<soren> Right on.
<dendrobates> sommer: did you get  a chance to add the bit about support at the end?
<dendrobates> sommer: or was I suposed to write it?
<sommer> dendrobates: no haven't had a chance yet, it's still on the list though
<nealmcb> OOPS - I forgot the minutes.  Here are two actions.   [ACTION] ScottK will post a blog request for help with the ClamavSpamassasssin MIRs
<nealmcb> [ACTION] tarvid to summarize drupal issues and propose something to the mailing list
<mathiaz> nealmcb: great - thanks for running last week meeting
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I haven't seen any drupal email
<nealmcb> I'll get the transcript on the web at least - harder without mootbot.  but I didn't even follow up on why mootbot wasn't working last week.  too much going on.....
 * nealmcb sighs
<mathiaz> nealmcb: ok - you can get the logs from irclogs.ubuntu.com
<mathiaz> nealmcb: that's were I grab them usually
 * nealmcb nods
<mathiaz> so any action on uvb ?
<mathiaz> nijaba: to write a tutorial ?
<mathiaz> sommer: to update the virtualization section ?
<nijaba> yep
<nealmcb> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html - to be sliced up later....
<sommer> sure
<mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to write a tutorial about the uvb
<mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide with references to uvb
<mathiaz> nealmcb: I usually use the .txt version
<mathiaz> nealmcb: rather than the .html
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: how is it going on this front ?
<sommer> mathiaz: good almost have the cn=config stuff updated in the openldap section
<sommer> basically only need adding new schemas, and to update the samba and ldap section
<jjesse> sommer: let me know if there are section i can help w/
<mathiaz> sommer: sections that need review are marked in the IntrepidServerGuide wiki page
<sommer> jjesse: actually the apache section could use a little love :)
<mathiaz> sommer:  is doc.ubuntu.com up-to-date ?
<jjesse> sommer: let me look at it
<sommer> mathiaz: nope it's quite a few revisions old at this point
<nijaba> jjesse: that would be great :)
<mathiaz> [ACTION] jjesse to update the apache section of the server guide
<mathiaz> sommer: so where is the best place to start reviewing the server guide ?
<jjesse> bzr :)
<sommer> mathiaz: this is newer than doc.u.c: http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/test/serverguide/C/
<sommer> but the bzr branch is newer still
<sommer> mathiaz: basically at this point there isn't a good online review location
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - so check out the bzr branch
<mathiaz> sommer: and send reviews to the ubuntu-doc mailing list
<sommer> another thing that would be very helpfull is to read through all the sections and upate any path names, package names, etc that may have changed with intrepid
<sommer> mathiaz: yeppers
<mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the documentation front ?
<sommer> mathiaz: I think that's it... getting closer, heh
<mathiaz> sommer: awesome - thanks and keep up the good work !
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Tomcat6 server stack support
<mathiaz> Koon: ^ ?
<Koon> Tomcat 6.0.18 was uploaded to fix a few security issues that were disclosed a few weeks ago
<Koon> I've filed the required MIRs since it is a main target
<Koon> next step after MIR is seed inclusion, then tasksel. Those will probably appear after FF
<Koon> no feedback so far. I guess we should blog about it at one point
<mathiaz> Koon: right - would you write a blog post for the ubuntuserver blog ?
<mathiaz> Koon: I can create an account for you and publish it once it's ready
<Koon> mathiaz: sure, as soon as I'm done with wbem, which probably means after FF
<mathiaz> Koon: ok
<mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to write a post about tomcat6 for ubuntuserver blog
<mathiaz> Koon: you mentionned that tomcat6 pulls in a lot of dependencies
<mathiaz> Koon: if we want to put on the -server isos, do we have enough space on it ?
<Koon> mathiaz: the unecessary stuff is pulled in through Recommends
<Koon> but there are a few that should be fixed before seed includion
<Koon> the lib*-java -> java2-runtime Depends in particular
<cjwatson> recommends is pulled onto CDs just as much as depends at the moment
<mathiaz> cjwatson: is this going to change ?
<Koon> cjwatson, mathiaz: I've filed bugs to fix those dependency issues, it's more a matter of sponsoring / doko approval
<dendrobates> Koon: adding it to the seed will force us to fix it.  So do it asap.
<mathiaz> Koon: ok - so work is under way. Can this wait after FF ?
<Koon> mathiaz: I don't expect the MIRs to be processed by then, and seed work comes after that ?
<cjwatson> mathiaz: we may add some kind of exception mechanism, but not in general
<mathiaz> Koon: right - I was refering to the Recommends -> Suggests patches
<cjwatson> Koon: doko's on holiday - best to find somebody else
<Koon> mathiaz: those are bugs, so I guess they can wait for after FF. I want to fix them for alpha-5 though
<Koon> cjwatson: noted.
<nijaba> cjwatson: is our traditional maintainer for Java, so I would guess he'd like to have a word about his types of changes, no?
<nijaba> s/is our/Doko is our/
<Koon> doko insisted in having lib*-java packages recomment lib*-java-gcj, which pulls in all non-headless gcj in server installs
<cjwatson> nijaba: indeed, and it would be a bad idea to make changes we know he hates in his absence, but we don't need to have individuals have a lock on packages in Ubuntu
<Koon> so there is some discussion to have with him I suppose
<nijaba> cjwatson: point taken
<cjwatson> Koon: IIRC from the bug there were some possible tweaks there without having to drop all the recommends
<mathiaz> Koon: right - I guess that should be taken to the Ubuntu Jave team then
<cjwatson> e.g. adjusting the -headless recommends target
<Koon> anyway, I've filed bugs (1 pending), most of them are no-brainers that can have someone else sponsoring them
<Koon> the remaining two might be conflictual
<mathiaz> Koon: can you forward the list of bugs to me ? I'll have a look at sponsoring them
<Koon> mathiaz: will do (and will file the last conflictual one)
<mathiaz> Koon: great - if you could subscribe me to the bug in LP that would be helpful
<mathiaz> Koon: anything else on tomcat6 ?
<Koon> cjwatson: do you mind if I ping you sometime on the two conflictual issue so that you check if they should wait for doko's return or not ?
<Koon> mathiaz: no.
<cjwatson> Koon: sure, please e-mail
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to sponsor Koon patches
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] UFW Package Integration
<mathiaz> jdstrand: ^ ?
<jdstrand> the ufw portion is basically done, with a few minor things I'd like to adjust. People can look at the Roadmap to see what packages need updating to integrate with ufw
<nealmcb> see also the discussion on that last week
<jdstrand> yes, I am assuming people have seen that ;)
<nealmcb> The other big discussion from last week, which did make it on to the mailing list, was Rails Integration and Rubygems
<mathiaz> jdstrand: great - thanks
<jdstrand> basically, see ServerTeam/Roadmap on what to update, and UbuntuFirewall for details on how to do it
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Rails and Rubygems
<mathiaz> macd: ^ ?
<macd> Im here
<macd> Looks like passenger needs a few changes as pointed out on REVU
<macd> I sent NeilW an email (think he might be on vacation)
<mathiaz> Right - the passenger package looks in good shape - NeilW updated the package
<mathiaz> I haven't had time yet to review the package
<macd> I saw your review from aug-22 and stevenk from aug 26
<nealmcb> macd: good job on getting discussion going!
<mathiaz> there was some discussion about rubygems and the solution to use update-alternated
<nxvl> jdstrand: that integration must be done before FF?
<macd> nealmcb, I had to hit the ML for some visibility
<macd> mathiaz, yes I saw that, and that looks to be the middle ground we need
<jdstrand> nxvl: yes
<nxvl> ok
<macd> so it looks that if the pass changes are made and the rubygems changes that were spoken of are made, we can get rails into intrepid in just enough time
<macd> And we'll leave tasksel for the next release
<macd> Just keep this focused on making sure everything works together when pulled in individually
<mathiaz> macd: rails ?
<macd> Intrepids rails play pretty nice
<mathiaz> macd: my impression from NeilW was that the rails package was not working well
<macd> That was due to gem conflicts I _think_
<mathiaz> macd: may be - he mentionned that he was planning to get proper gem support in intrepid, but expect people to use gem to install rails
<mathiaz> macd: rather then apt-get install rails
<macd> mathiaz, well that certainly sounds better to me
<macd> mathiaz, gems tend to get updated faster than the release cycle here, I've always thought the distro should have gems and let people manage their gems like perl people do cpan
<mathiaz> macd: I'll have a look at the latest package NeilW uploaded to the ubuntu-ruby PPA
<macd> mathiaz, great
<mathiaz> macd: right - that's what NeilW is trying to accomplish
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<mathiaz> anything else ?
<sommer> I spoke too soon doc.u.c has been updated... yay!
<sommer> just fyi
<nijaba> fyi: bloggers wanted at http://www.workswithu.com/2008/08/22/ubuntu-linux-bloggers-wanted/
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ?
<soren> Yay!
<nijaba> +1
<sommer> o//
<nijaba> \\o
<nealmcb> where does ClamavSpamassasssin stand?
<mathiaz> great - see you all next week, same time, same place
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<soren> Meeting ended at 15:59:58 UTC.
 * nijaba hugs mathiaz
<nealmcb> soren: :)
 * soren has a part time job as MootBot.
 * soren didn't know what to do with all his spare time, and there was an opening, so.. Yeah..
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<nealmcb> soren: when you get around to preparing the minutes for my meeting last week I'll really be impressed :)
<macd> random question has anyone looked at the fail2ban bug in intrepid
<macd> apt wont pull in the updated package from the repos, but manually downloading and installing it fixes
 * macd moves to ubuntu-server with this
<soren> nealmcb: I'm still proofreading all the stuff the old mootbot guy did. He's good, but I'm sure I'll find something.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 28 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<nealmcb> #26726
<nealmcb> bug 26726
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 26726 in bzip2 "bzip2: new changes from Debian require merging" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26726
<jdong> hi everyone
<jacob> hello, my first time making it to one of these in a good while
<Technoviking> hi all
<forumsmatthew> I made it, but I might have to leave at short notice
<Technoviking> forumsmatthew: how was the trip
<jdong> jacob: oh, likewise, it's hard to get schedules to match up
<forumsmatthew> it's been crazy...I'm living in a hotel and trying to buy a house.
<forumsmatthew> everyone is healthy and in good spirits, though
<jdong> that's the most important thing :)
<jdong> of course, having a house is nice and all.
<Technoviking> coolness
<jacob> jdong: you've got reasons, i've just been forgetting ;)
<forumsmatthew> anyone seen u-g or kiwi?
<Technoviking> not yet
<Technoviking> lets give them a couple more minutes
<jdong> ok
<forumsmatthew> ok
 * PriceChild waves
<Technoviking> hey pricey
<jdong> PriceChild: you're late. that's 5 demerits.
<PriceChild> jdong: you're ignoring me. That's 10 demerits.
 * forumsmatthew waves quickly to avoid demerits
<jdong> PriceChild: well.. where's that iMac I wanted for my birthday?
<jdong> PriceChild: I thought you cared about me!
<jdong> PriceChild: after all that stuff I did for you at night
<PriceChild> jdong: you never said!
<jdong> like watching the IRC channels
<PriceChild> You've been too busy doing stuff you're not allowed to tell us and not paying us any attention.
<Technoviking> shall we start we have a quorum
<forumsmatthew> I'm ready when you are
<Technoviking> jdong?
<jdong> good to go
<Technoviking> ==================== Meeting start =================
<Technoviking> ok the meeting agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<Technoviking> is xhhux here?
<Technoviking> Would like to put this to bed
<Technoviking> Going 1.. 2.. 3..
<jdong> did ubuntu-geek say if he's going to be here?
<jdong> looking at the second item it seems like he'd be helpful on the technical side of the discussion
<Technoviking> jdong: probably still on the way home
<PriceChild> the ubuntuforums-staff launchpad group doesn't do anything though does it?
<Technoviking> ok xhhux was banned from the forums for creating multiple accounts, the FC gave him a second chance which he wasted in about 30 minutes
<PriceChild> eek sorry thought we'd moved on
<jdong> did we ever manage to reach him at a valid e-mail address?
<jdong> this game is really pushing my patience to its limits
<Technoviking> We have invited him to two FC meeting to discuss this issues and he has chosen not to show up
<Technoviking> jdong: The last e-mail I sent did not bounce
<forumsmatthew> Three...
<forumsmatthew> He has had his agenda item removed twice, if I remember correctly
<jdong> Technoviking: ok, then let's asssume he has received the notices
<forumsmatthew> and he put it back on each time
<Technoviking> three meeting, I have lost count
<jdong> at this point, I'm not interested in wasting my time playing this game every meeting
<forumsmatthew> At this point, I think he is only interested to the extent that he does not have to be accountable for his actions
<jdong> until further notice from the FC, xhhux is to stop making accounts at the forums.
<forumsmatthew> he isn't interested in actually discussing the problem and seeking a real solution
<forumsmatthew> jdong, +1
<Technoviking> +1, I will send him e-mail from the best address I can find
<jdong> alright, thanks
<forumsmatthew> thank you
<Technoviking> should we wait for ubuntu-geek or hear what ubuntu-geek has to say
<Technoviking> should we wait for ubuntu-geek or hear what jacob has to say (whoops)
<jacob> the Launchpad group for LoCo mods is trivial really, someone on the forums had wondered if loco mods were allowed on the staff group
<jdong> I think we can start discussing it
<jacob> and later it was suggested to just make a new group
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to leave soon, so I would prefer to hear about it
<jdong> the "whether it's technically feasible" part would need Ryan's advice though
<jdong> but we can leave that for later
<jacob> jdong: afaik, the current staff launchpad group isn't integrated into the forums either, so this wouldn't be too difficult to get going
<Technoviking> this in Launchpad or a forums group?
<forumsmatthew> My thought is that it is better to leave the current forums staff group on Launchpad exclusive to global mods and admins, but
<jacob> Technoviking: Launchpad
<forumsmatthew> we can add a new group for loco staff
<jdong> jacob: ok, it's a LP group
<jacob> Technoviking: see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=899138 for reference
<jacob> maybe just a simple ubuntufourms-loco-staff group, added as a subgroup of ubuntuforums-staff
<forumsmatthew> for the record, I am okay with the idea....sorry, I have to leave now
<forumsmatthew> hopefully I can get settled in before the next meeting. :)
<jdong> how do subgroups work?
<jacob> forumsmatthew: bye :)
<jdong> I'm not sure if it's the right relationship
<jacob> jdong: you can add a group as a member of another group
<jdong> i.e. how is the Ubuntu MOTU Contributors vs Ubuntu MOTU team set up?
<Technoviking> I would just suggest ubuntufourms-loco-staff that is owned by the FC group
<jacob> and anyone who is a member of the subgroup is effectively members of both
<jdong> I think it should be owned by the FC group
<jdong> but I'm not sure if it should be a subgroup of the staff group
<jacob> that's okay with me
<Technoviking> The top subgroup is a member of its child group I believe
<jdong> unless we have a "ubuntuforums-core-staff" group
<jdong> I'm concerned it might get confusing who's staff and who's loco staff
<jacob> jdong: sounds fine, having too many groups will get confusing
<Technoviking> jdong: agreed
<jdong> ok, then I think a separate loco-staff group owned by the FC is more appropriate
<Technoviking> and maybe loco-forum-mods or loco-forum-volenteers is a better term, so not to be confused with forums staff
<jdong> "ubuntuforums-loco-mods"?
<jacob> sounds good
<Technoviking> +1
<Technoviking> lets mkae sure to have ubuntu-geek and kiwi read the log of the meeting and make sure there is no problem
<jdong> ok
<Technoviking> coolness
<Technoviking> anything else?
<jacob> i was about to ask "What about Jane Sample?" but then something sunk in...
<Technoviking> :)
<jdong> jacob: LOL likewise
<Technoviking>  ok, thanks for coming everyone
<jacob> quick meeting, good
<Technoviking> ====================Meeting end ====================
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-27
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 27 Aug 22:00: Platform Team | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 27 Aug 17:00: QA Team | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 28 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<ma10> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 27 2008, 14:39:00 - Next meeting: Server Team in 6 days
<persia> Erm.  That's just not right.
<persia> Anybody from the news team around?  Could you populate the calendar a bit?  I *know* there's lots of meetings during the next 30 hours or so.
<heno_> Hey everyone
 * pedro_ waves
<intellectronica> 'alo
<LaserJock> hi heno_
<heno_> I may have to run in a few minutes
<heno_> hey LaserJock
<bdmurray> greetings
<heno_> pedro_: could you chair the meeting? - in case I need to dash off
<pedro_> heno_: yes no problem
<LaserJock> pedro_: I think we need to send the meeting emails earlier
<LaserJock> it'd be nice if we had the agenda set by Monday and the email sent out Tuesday I think
<LaserJock> to allow people who don't normally come but may be interested in specific agenda items
<heno_> should we schedule meetings when there are no suggested agenda items?
<pedro_> LaserJock: indeed, but we didn't have an agenda till today morning, that's why i didn't send it yesterday
<LaserJock> heno_: well, I would propose that unless we have a full agenda a "spec status" roll call would be good to do each meeting
<heno_> we may have some standing items of course like, indeed
<LaserJock> it's often good if we don't have big agenda items :-)
<sbeattie> hey
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 28 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team
<bdmurray> Or a round table
<heno_> also looking toward testing of the next milestone and SRU status
<LaserJock> but it's also good to get everybody together, talk about the week
<ara> hello
<heno_> yay, let's do a round table!
<pedro_> yeah
<pedro_> ok everybody is here, let's start
<pedro_> #startmeeting
<LaserJock> I think it's especially nice to find out about blockers :-)
 * pedro_ kicks the bot
<heno_> I'll go first since I may have to run
<davmor2> hello
<pedro_> Welcome to the Ubuntu QA Meeting the Agenda for today is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno_> I was at a Canonical distro team leads sprint all last week
<heno_> we discussed the usual admin stuff but also some Ubuntu QA stuff
<stgraber> hey
<heno_> There is broad agreement that we will ramp up the focus on quality in the releases to come
<heno_> I can write more when I get the notes
<LaserJock> that's always a good thing? :-)
<LaserJock> s/?/!/
<heno_> of course!
<heno_> oh, not '?'
<heno_> heh
 * LaserJock plays "punctuation jumble" today
<heno_> on monday I was at an LP team sprint as well
<heno_> the numbers that we discussed for the LP bugs priorities were presented
<heno_> it looks like they have a good process for taking that forward
<davmor2> cool :)
<heno_> they will decide on actual priorities this week
<LaserJock> excellent
<pedro_> yay
<heno_> ok, that's it from me!
<pedro_> thanks
<pedro_> ok the next point i see is
<pedro_> Ubuntu Developer Week preparations
<pedro_> the Ubuntu Developer Week starts next week
<heno_> That's just pointing out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
<pedro_> and there's a few talks from the members of the team
<pedro_> anyone wants to give a brief overview about their talk?
<LaserJock> I was pleasantly surprised to see Ara scheduled
<heno_> and it looks like there are no more open slots
<pedro_> bdmurray, ara ?
<LaserJock> go ara go! ;-)
<ara> pedro_: ok, I'll go
<pedro_> rock
<ara> I will be presenting the automated testing library that we've been working on
<ara> what is exactly, how to use it, etc.
<ara> i will be completing the docuementation at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/LDTP/HowToUseTestingLibrary
<ara> before the session, so people will be able to have some reading after it
<ara> what I would like to achieve from the session is making people more involved in testing and more specifically in automated testing
<ara> only some very basic python knowledge is required
<LaserJock> ara: very nice
<pedro_> nice! looking forward to it
<pedro_> bdmurray: may you tell us a bit about the launchpad hacks session?
<LaserJock> ara: so are you going to be able to go through how people can contribute test scripts?
<ara> LaserJock: yes, how to contribute with new scripts that use the library; but not how to extend the library
<ara> LaserJock: if I get people willing to contribute also to extend the library, it will be great
<bdmurray> pedro_: I plan on talking about recent features added to bughelper / python-launchpad-bugs.  Additionally, I want to talk about all the scripts in the launchpad-gm-scripts project and how they might help you use launchpad.
<LaserJock> next time we should get a QA Team overview session
<pedro_> cool!
<heno_> should we continue the round table?
<bdmurray> If so there's one thing I wanted to mention...
<bdmurray> I've written a script that checks needs-packaging bugs to see if they are already packged in debian or ubuntu and checks to see if there is a request to have them packaged in debian
<bdmurray> I plan on running this on qa.ubuntu.com soon and announcing it
<bdmurray> However, one way we can help is ensuring the needs-packaging bugs follow a specific format for the title
<bdmurray> for example: [needs-packaging] softwarename ....
<heno_> how does it find the package in the archive?
<bdmurray> So if you happen to see any that don't follow that convention please modify the title.
<intellectronica> bdmurray: why do you want to use the title?
<bdmurray> heno_: rmadison
<ara> bdmurray: one thing that is unclear from the documentation is that instead of "naming [needs-packaging]" the document reads "tagging [needs-packaging]"
<intellectronica> bdmurray: rather than a tag, that is
<bdmurray> intellectronica: so it is distinguishable in a list of bugs - both are done
<bdmurray> ara: okay, I'll update the documentation
<bdmurray> Ideally they'll be tagged needs-packaging and have that prepended to the title
<LaserJock> hmm, but how reliable would the title be?
<bdmurray> LaserJock: I've modified ~134 needs-packaging bugs which is >10%
<bdmurray> So I think it has been pretty successful
<LaserJock> bdmurray: you've modified the title of 134?
<LaserJock> what I meant was that by definition we don't have a package name for needs-packaging bugs
<bdmurray> LaserJock: no, I've linked to upstream bug watches, marked as duplicate or Fix Released 134 bugs
<LaserJock> so how do you go from a bug title to finding if it's in the archive?
 * heno_ is afk
<bdmurray> I assume the 2nd word in the title is the name of the software needing packaging
<bdmurray> And that's where help would be useful - ensuring the bug titles follow that convention
<LaserJock> bdmurray: right but quite often that's not a great mapping to package name
<LaserJock> but consistency is usually a good thing :-)
<LaserJock> I'm just worried that if we take a scripted list we'll could have a significant amount of false positives
<LaserJock> so then we'd be triaging anyway
<davmor2> bdmurray: so bug title Intrepid: xapian doesn't work  and intrepid: bunnys have big ears is cool for you?
<davmor2> where bunnys needs packaging sorry
<bdmurray> davmor2: heh
<hggdh> LaserJock, this is one reason why we would still need the tag -- titles may not work always
<LaserJock> hggdh: that's the whole reason why I made the tag in the first place ;-)
<hggdh> and this is another reason why we need more tags ;-)
<bdmurray> and if a particular ubuntu bug has too many results just skip it or modify the title and it'll get processed in the next run of the script
<davmor2> bdmurray: sorry talking at cross purposes missed the first bit just played catch up
<LaserJock> bdmurray: ok, so what does your script output?
<LaserJock> the bugs where the software exists in Debian/Ubuntu?
<bdmurray> The output of rmadison or links and titles of debian bugs
<LaserJock> hmm, that just seems so error prone
<pedro_> Any other issues?
<LaserJock> well, the Testing Day thing is still up in the air
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to get something nailed down for that
<pedro_> Yes, LaserJock can you send a reminder about it to the ubuntu-qa list ?
<LaserJock> k
<davmor2> also before I need to dash off the bugs I've come across whilst smoke testing I've collated here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke/bugs I won't be around next week so if someone can quickly blitz through them and see if there fixed early next week that would be great
<pedro_> thanks you
<pedro_> alright, thanks davmor2
<pedro_> ok it seems we don't have anything else
<intellectronica> just a quick one
<pedro_> intellectronica: go ahead
<intellectronica> has there been any progress on preparation for that bug status migration?
<pedro_> intellectronica: i haven't had the time yet to prepare the wiki page, but ill need to do it soon
<intellectronica> cool. let me know if you need any help
<pedro_> yup , thanks
<pedro_> ok , let's wrap then
<pedro_> thanks everybody
<intellectronica> thanks, pedro_
<ara> thanks
<bdmurray> thanks
<sbeattie> thanks everyone
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 28 Aug 13:00: Desktop Team | 28 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release
<jjesse> @schedule detroit
<ubottu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 01 Sep 00:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 28 Aug 08:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Sep 11:00: Server Team | 28 Aug 09:00: Desktop Team | 28 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 29 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Release
 * asac first
<asac> hi
<evand> hi
<liw> hi
<james_w> hi all
<ArneGoetje> morning
<calc> hi
<cjwatson> evening
 * ogra waves
 * slangasek waves
<cjwatson> bryce: ping?
<cjwatson> guess not; let's move on without him for now
<bryce> hi
<cjwatson> aha
<cjwatson> ok, so feature freeze is at some time I'm not entirely certain of, but at any rate within the next day
<cjwatson> so now's a good time to look over our team's progress and see what needs to be deferred and what might want exceptions from the release team
 * ogra hopes late
<james_w> 5 minutes ago I thought
<slangasek> 0000 UTC
<slangasek> which by my clock leaves us all with 2h :)
<cjwatson> I heard COB Wednesday, though personally I'd been shooting for COB Thursday; but I shouldn't imagine a few hours will make a whole lot of difference either way
<ogra> slangasek, eeek
<james_w> ah, I fail at timezones yet again
<cjwatson> so, I asked for a one-line summary of each of your feature goals (something of the form "name of goal: where it's at" would be fine)
<cjwatson> how about we go in reverse order, since ogra was expressing concern
<cjwatson> ogra:
<slangasek> (cjwatson: there was apparently a precedent in the wiki that freezes start at 0000UTC on the given day; we diverged from this for hardy, reinstated now for intrepid, sorry to catch people flat-footed)
<ogra> well, still busy getting the latest ltsp upstream changes in
<persia> According to my clock, FF is in 114 minutes
<cjwatson> slangasek: there were older precedents yet that were different again, of course ;-)
<slangasek> heh
<cjwatson> we've gone through various interpretations
<ogra> my only left goal for intrepid was compcache: implemented and running fine
<ogra> (just getting it into ltsp)
<cjwatson> that was certainly the only major item
<cjwatson> I'm very pleased with how memory use has come out so far on the desktop CD, and I gather there's more room for tweakage
<ogra> yeh, definately
 * ogra is hoping for 24M ltsp client support
<cjwatson> ogra: edubuntu-menus-completion and local-content-filter deferred, I take it?
<ogra> yeah
<cjwatson> I thought that was likely
<ogra> and though i'm likely moving teams now, i'D still like to go after the content filter stuff
<ogra> (trying to get to that since the sydney UDS where i had to take edubuntu to actually get the spec :P )
<slangasek> heh :)
<cjwatson> ogra: on that note, remind me to give you a ring tomorrow
<ogra> oki
<cjwatson> doko is on holiday
<cjwatson> of his feature goals, OpenJDK seems pretty happy at this point barring a few glitches the server team would like to be cleared up
<cjwatson> Python 3 was only ever preparation for the future
<cjwatson> TheMuso:
<TheMuso> dmraid: Complete bar no event monitoring due to broken code and incomplete upstream tarballs.
<TheMuso> desktop a11y review: Deferred, dmraid took more time than expected.
<doko> Hola
<cjwatson> doko: oh, hiya
<TheMuso> audio: due to the kernel fuss nothing has been uploaded yet, although things are almost ready on my end, just need to test check and upload alsa pieces.
<TheMuso> pulseaudio I'd rather PPA test, and if people really want it, we FF for it.
<cjwatson> TheMuso: though dmraid not yet promoted to main - I'll get to that before the deadline
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Ok no problem.
<cjwatson> right, for those who haven't noticed, the kernel team is pretty set on trying out 2.6.27, but acknowledges the regression risk so we're going to be pretty careful about it
<TheMuso> I doubt I can get all of alsa done before FF, but I'll see...
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/2.6.27-kernel-plan is the plan and timeline
<asac> TheMuso: can we at least get a fix for the also through pulseaudio by default thing?
<cjwatson> we're going to have to switch up to .27 in intrepid in order to get certification testing done, but that's not necessarily final
<asac> TheMuso: otherwise we will end up with flash blocking sound device
<asac> TheMuso: i know that the current fix isnt kde compatible.
<TheMuso> asac: Yes, I need to reread up on everything to work out what exactly has to be done but yes, that is regardless of pulse version
<asac> but maybe that should be solved on a package base somehow (if we cannot find a real solution)
<asac> TheMuso: ok. as long as you keep in line tha tthis is really a big show stopper and we need a solution i am happy ;)
<asac> s/in line/in mind/
<cjwatson> TheMuso: do you have some skeleton disk images that people could use in a vm to do basic dmraid testing?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Yes, but thats not really useful.
<cjwatson> something of the form "create zero-filled images, and run this dd command"
<TheMuso> Other than testing whether everything fits together.
<cjwatson> I would find it very useful to be able to try out the installer and suggest possible improvements
<TheMuso> but yes, I do have images.
<cjwatson> 23:10 <cjwatson> doko is on holiday
<cjwatson> 23:11 <cjwatson> of his feature goals, OpenJDK seems pretty happy at this point barring a few glitches the server team would like to be cleared up
<cjwatson> 23:11 <cjwatson> Python 3 was only ever preparation for the future
<cjwatson> TheMuso: thanks
<cjwatson> doko: anything you want to add? just a very quick run-down
<TheMuso> cjwatson: I'm going to blog/post to devel about dmraid anyway, so I will put the images up somewhere for people to download.
<cjwatson> TheMuso: great, thanks
<doko> cjwatson: I will upload python3 next week, including with a few modules how python3 modules sould be packaged.
<doko> I didn't see any critical reports about OpenJDK
<cjwatson> the server team wanted to get bugs 261847 and 249178 cleared up
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261847 in openjdk-6 "Installing openjdk-6-jre-headless pulls in dbus/avahi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261847
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249178 in ecj "libecj-java shouldn't recommend java2-runtime" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249178
<doko> python3 should go to main however, because we want to build modules from one source package
<slangasek> that's going to bloat the size of all the python module packages again?
<doko> 261847 seems to be controversial
<slangasek> I don't see how that can be justified as a post-FF change
<doko> slangasek: no, not the binary ones, we'll have python3-XXX binaries
<slangasek> hmm, breaking the python policy instead, ok... :)
<cjwatson> you can't have the same source used by both python 2 and 3, to a good first approximation
<doko> 249178 should be uploaded
<cjwatson> so this is really something the python policy failed to predict :)
<slangasek> well, ouch
<doko> not breaking, but changing.
<cjwatson> doko: 249178 is a two-parter, I understand: one using -headless, and one being a recommends change that I understand is disputed
<cjwatson> they seem quite upset about all the X libraries being pulled in
<cjwatson> I didn't want to overrule you in your absence; in any case this all seems to be under the bug-fix heading
<doko> well, yes, maybe we could drop this recommend, now that we have java-gcj-compat and java-gcj-compat-hl. I'll do this next week
<doko> I mean: dropping the recomend of libgcj9-0-awt in libgcj9-0
<cjwatson> doko: thanks for the update; we'd best move on, as time is pressing
<cjwatson> liw:
<liw> CleanupCruft: package almost ready, gui sucks but works, need to find how to do root from gui
<liw> DebianPolicyInDocbook: ignored
<liw> FastLsbRelease: ignored
<liw> GetRidOfPythonCentralAndSupport: not ready, lots of work needed
<liw> GobbyServerPersistentState: my patch works, upstream now maintains package and has corresponding patch (which I should review)
<liw> LintianHarness. ignored
<liw> NoFsckAtBoot: deemed semi-impossible, but ubuntu-devel(-discuss) has had similar discussions
<liw> PythonProfilingTool: playing with Heapy (it does work!), but no concrete results
<liw> SuperPiuparts: deferred
<cjwatson> perhaps somebody could help liw out with the last bits needed for cleanup-cruft
<asac> what is needed?
<james_w> policykit?
<liw> should I run gksu (what update-manager seems to do currently) or go straight for policykit?
<asac> ah ... root from gui ;)
<slangasek> AIUI we're well on the path for transitioning to policykit, so better if new stuff uses that?
<james_w> liw: policykit, though it may require architecture changes
<james_w> and may require frustration
<liw> ok, policykit it is (unless it looks too difficult, in which case I'll go for gksu, call it a bug, and fix it to use policykit later...)
<TheMuso> Policykit please, for accessibility reasons.
<TheMuso> gksu is not an option. :p
<james_w> I know pitti recently converted to policykit, so he may be able to help, and I have a basic knowledge, so I'll help if I can
<cjwatson> pitti is on holiday at the moment
<liw> james_w, thanks, that'll be helpful
<cjwatson> as is, I gather, most of the desktop team :P
<cjwatson> liw: thanks, better to get system-cleaner into the archive while a bit suboptimal than to leave it until it's too late; we still have time for bug-fixing and polishing provided the basic functionality works
<liw> cjwatson, ack
<cjwatson> james_w: it's been a while since we talked about UDD. What's the good word?
<james_w> I've got bzr-builddeb 2.0 in bzr since about an hour, that has the features I think we need for Intrepid.
<james_w> I'd love a sponsor (perhaps for Debian as well, but that's less important)
<james_w> if not I can get an FFe and have my usual sponsor upload
<cjwatson> I don't see it on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb ?
<james_w> the rest is not bound by feature freeze, and hasn't moved in the last couple of weeks
<asac> bzr http mirror syncs are broken i think
<cjwatson> hmm, worked for me earlier today
<asac> strange. then thats just affecting the mozillateam branches ;)
<james_w> cjwatson: I also tried to upgrade the alioth branch that it mirrors from at the same time, so there may be a delay
<asac> (but havent checked today)
<james_w> http://bzr.debian.org/pkg-bazaar/bzr-builddeb/trunk if anyone is interested
<slangasek> interested, but otherwise occupied at the moment
<cjwatson> james_w: I'll be up for a little while after the meeting, and can sponsor
<james_w> cjwatson: great, thanks
<cjwatson> bzr: ERROR: No repository present: "http://bzr.debian.org/pkg-bazaar/bzr-builddeb/trunk/"
<cjwatson> EHOSEDBRANCH
<james_w> cjwatson: just fixed that, there's a bug in bzr I'll report
<slangasek> not EHOSEDHOSTING?
<slangasek> (I can't seem to get http transport to work for bzr.debian.org for my stuff, maybe I'm doing it wrong)
<cjwatson> slangasek: I shall withhold my comments on the delays involved in getting new branches created on bzr.d.o
<james_w> slangasek: try nosmart+http://
<james_w> slangasek: *another* bzr bug, fixed in 1.6
<james_w> which leads me to
<slangasek> james_w: hum, ok :/
<james_w> bzr* updates: all lined up as sponsored sync requests, thanks to LaserJock and jelmer. Probably bugs to fix in 1.6, but we definitely want its features. We shou
<james_w> ld evaluate 1.7 in 3 weeks.
<james_w> slangasek: assuming it's the bug I think it is.
<slangasek> james_w: I don't suppose we'll get 1.6 into lenny...?
<slangasek> (I imagine not)
<cjwatson> just about every problem I've run into in the last couple of weeks has been "fixed in 1.6"
<james_w> slangasek: it's in experimental, but no-ones pushing for it
<cjwatson> (including the ones that had nothing to do with bzr)
<slangasek> cjwatson: fwiw, I haven't had problems with getting bzr setups done for bzr.d.o
<james_w> slangasek: I should investigate backporting the fix.
<james_w> 1.6 was a real pain of a release, I think it may have reached 4 months.
<james_w> pretty bad for a monthly release project
<james_w> the rest of my list:
<james_w> font-selector: nowhere, sorry.
<james_w> lvm .39: done, thanks to TheMuso.
<james_w> mono-tools: still needs MIR for webkit-sharp, though could be sponsored as-is I
<james_w> believe.
<cjwatson> james_w: ok, thanks
<cjwatson> evand:
<evand>  * usb-installer-images: Mostly finished.  I just need to figure out
<evand> why an io_watch isn't promptly firing, polish the code and UI, and
<evand> pick a name (suggestions welcome).  This will be done in time for the
<evand> feature freeze cutoff Thursday.
<evand> (written before the above conversation)
<evand>  * dvd-performance-hacks: Mostly done.  Just need to merge in my
<evand> ubiquity changes and triggerize packages.
<evand>  * ubiquity-visual-refresh:  The partition bar work has been committed
<evand> to ubiquity trunk.  I did not manage to coordinate the slideshow work
<evand> in time and will have to defer that (though I'll continue working with
<evand> the art and documentation team to obtain the required media for it
<evand> during the remainder of the 8.10 cycle).  I am going to apply for a
<evand> feature freeze for the timezone map changes for over the weekend as
<evand> I'm having some difficulty with rsvg and locating the mouse within a
<evand> particular time zone.  If the work fails to produce effective results,
<cjwatson> slangasek: the usb installer stuff is largely (afaik) a new package, so I think the regression risk is pretty low; can we manage the one-day slip there?
<evand> I will work to fix the remaining usability bugs in the previous
<evand> timezone map.
<slangasek> cjwatson: yes
<evand> thanks
<cjwatson> evand: if you could push the ubiquity branch for dvd-performance-hacks somewhere, I can have a look at it for you
<TheMuso> Speaking of slips, I can get alsa uploaded today, but it won't all be before FF. Is this ok?
<liw> /msg evand name suggestion for the usb thing: gloffod (glorious freedom from optical disks)
<evand> cjwatson: will do
<doko> james_w: pitti and I will clean up MIRs next week
<slangasek> TheMuso: what part is going to be past FF?
<james_w> doko: great, I'll try and get it written before then
<evand> thanks liw, any other suggestions?
<TheMuso> slangasek: Getting lib/utils/plugins in.
<cjwatson> evand: I'm looking forward to having a look at the partition bar work; you should blog about it :)
<evand> (can be mailed so we don't eat up time here)
<slangasek> TheMuso: hmm, you said it won't /all/ be before FF... will /any/ of it be before FF? :)
<evand> cjwatson: blog?  I don't think I've done that since Summer of Code ;)
<cjwatson> yes, I know ;-)
<asac> slangasek: i think he ment that this upload will take a few more hours
<asac> (but thats just what i read from it)
<TheMuso> slangasek: lib likely will be yes.
<asac> oh ok ;)
<slangasek> TheMuso: ok.  yes, that'll be alright.
<cjwatson> on my own bits:
<cjwatson> recommends-by-default: germinate updated and all seems to be working, although some people have requested the ability to exempt certain recommendations from CD building. We may be able to do something about tha
<cjwatson> t.
<cjwatson> splitting server and mobile into separate branches and metapackages: not done, will probably wait for archive-reorganisation.
<cjwatson> archive-reorganisation: call tomorrow morning with Mark to iron out some details. I think we have high-level agreement though and it's on the LP 3.0 plan.
<cjwatson> policy-and-standards: initial version of Ubuntu policy uploaded; need to reinstate pristine debian-policy and repackage but that's no big deal.
<ogra> recommends-by-default, any idea what to do with the lilo dep of linux-image-* ?
<cjwatson> also been helping out the server team with some installer bits, but I think my end is done and any FFEs they need are their business :)
<slangasek> ogra: I think that's wrong under the definition of Recommends and should be dropped?
<TheMuso> 5~/c
<ogra> slangasek, well, lilo seems to be still wanted ...
<cjwatson> you can also use --no-install-recommends as a stopgap measure
<cjwatson> it's not appropriate as the first alternative
<ogra> yeah, thats what i switched ltsp to now
<slangasek> oh, it's linux-image-* that was Recommending lilo?
<cjwatson> yes
<ogra> since my chroots just explode with recommends ...
<slangasek> yeah, shouldn't be the first one, anyway
<ogra> right and lilo in a chroot isnt really fun :)
<cjwatson> for minimal chroots I think --no-install-recommends is entirely appropriate
<cjwatson> they aren't the usual case
<ogra> i was fearing i miss anyhing ..
<ogra> but it seems to stil work fine
<ogra> wont be the caes if we start to rely on recommends
<ogra> *case
<cjwatson> if we follow the definitions properly, it should be fine
<slangasek> right; for a minimal chroot, --no-install-recommends is precisely how one finds out if a recommends should've been a depends instead :)
<ogra> heh
<cjwatson> calc:
<calc> ok
<calc> OOo 3.0 rc1 is delayed again until sept 1
<calc> i am working on OOo 3.0 packaging split and hope to have some debs in PPA by the end of the week (maybe not all packages though)
<calc> potentially having OOo 3.0 split packages parallel installable
<slangasek> parallel alongside what?
<calc> slangasek: the regular debs, if the 3.0 release slips much more we may have 3.0 split debs for test and 2.4.1 debs for the main install
<doko> calc: is this the mmeks split?
<cjwatson> my suggestion was, by way of having some concrete progress on OOo this cycle, to produce openoffice.org3-* modularised packages
<calc> doko: yes
<slangasek> ah :/
<slangasek> right, that's better than getting stuck with prerelease 3.0 packages at release time
<calc> slangasek: yea
<cjwatson> and to use those as a guideline for the observable quality of 3.0
<calc> slangasek: they still have sept 16 listed as release date, but that looks awfully optimistic
<cjwatson> realistically we aren't going to get much feedback until there's something in the archive, but it seems like they're slipping too much for us to commit to 3.0
<cjwatson> that's my take on it, anyway ...
<calc> yes
 * slangasek nods
<calc> if they slip between rc1 and final as much as usual it will be around a week before ubuntu rc when its released
<slangasek> yeah, not an ok time to be uploading it :-)
<cjwatson> calc: did anything ever come of talking to Till about applications-printing?
<calc> and final upstream releases generally are still a bit buggy
<cjwatson> I remember you said you'd missed him at the sprint
<calc> cjwatson: not much no
<cjwatson> did you discuss it with Till?
<calc> i talked to him again a few weeks ago, but i don't remember the outcome now
<cjwatson> notes, IRC logs, ...?
<calc> it looks like there aren't patches for the OOo bit so i would need to track down how to convert OOo to output as PDF
<calc> i found the email
<cjwatson> (I know I'm putting you on the spot, I just want to check it wasn't lost)
<calc> OOo's PDF output is not that great to begin with so i am not sure what would be needed there
<calc> there are some pdf changes for 3.0 but i haven't looked into what exactly has changed
<calc> eg pdf import via poppler
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-28
<cjwatson> ok, please try to make some progress on at least the information gathering part of that when you can, and update the spec with comments
<cjwatson> we'll need to move on
<cjwatson> bryce:
<calc> ok
<cjwatson> calc: thanks
<bryce> Here's my blueprints --
<bryce> xorg-input-hotplug:  DONE.  Finished up docs + testing.  Yay!
<bryce> mouse-extra-buttons:  DONE.
<bryce> xorg-options-editor: DEPLOYMENT.  Needs promotion to main.  http://bryceharrington.org/ubuntu/ScreenRes/screens-3.png
<bryce> xorg-ctrl-alt-backspace:  POSTPONED to intrepid+1.  (Still disagreements)
<bryce> x-testing-infrastructure:  Not FF critical, but some progress.  3 of 7 tasks done.
<bryce> console-setup:  (Forgot what needs done?)
<Riddell> I'm assuming this channel isn't going to be free for the Kubuntu meeting due in a minute
<bryce> Other FF-critical non-blueprint development work --
<bryce> Xorg apport hooks:  DONE.  Some testing remains.
<bryce> Redo bulletproof-x to not depend on displayconfig-gtk:  IN PROGRESS. Fairly easy change, but I'll need a FFe for it.
<cjwatson> Riddell: sorry, can you give us 10 minutes?
<bryce> We're also awaiting releases of late drivers (-fglrx, -ati) and Xorg 1.5
<bryce> tjaalton also would like a FFe for a -synaptics upload
<tjaalton> howdy ho
<tjaalton> synaptics should be ready in a minute
<cjwatson> bryce: console-setup> I think not on your plate any more - it's just the translations work
<bryce> cjwatson: ok thanks.  It's still assigned to me so I figured I ought to mention.
<cjwatson> feel free to unassign that
<bryce> I don't think I can, but I'll give it a try
<Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting moved to #kubuntu-devel **
<cjwatson> Riddell: sorry, and thanks
<bryce> cjwatson: nope, don't have permission
<cjwatson> bryce: I've done it
<bryce> thx
<bryce> the -fglrx lateness is probably the biggest issue.  It probably won't make the release in October, so may need an SRU.
<asac> bryce: no 3d for ati in release
<asac> wow
<bryce> for -ati we're shipping a pretty recent git snapshot, but I'd be more comfortable shipping a released version
<cjwatson> bryce: please file MIR bugs for the main promotions for xorg-options-editor with some commentary so that we have something to work on
<asac> thats a huge regression :) ... at least for those that are struck
<bryce> cjwatson: ok will do
<bryce> asac: yeah...  there will be much gnashing of teeth.  ATI is working on it as their top priority.  We'll see.
<asac> bryce: i have a machine with X1950 ... and i cannot even watch videos without frame dropping
<asac> on that
<tjaalton> X.org 7.4 will be released "within a week", so there's still time for ati to get their act together..
<asac> (with radeonhd)
<tjaalton> asac: use -ati
<cjwatson> bryce: thanks, perhaps you could come to the release team meeting on Friday and fill us in on more detail ther
<cjwatson> e
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje:
<ArneGoetje> language-selector: uploaded into archive; one bug to fix: l-p-{gnome|kde) does not get pulled in anymore, needs code rewrite to fix, will do this during the next days.
<bryce> cjwatson: ok
<slangasek> I'm not sanguine about the notion of pushing in -fglrx as an SRU, with no working version at all in the release; but yes, we can talk about that later
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: any language pack structure changes in that, or just application code?
<asac> tjaalton: ill try. last time it didnt work with anything else than radeonhd iirc
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: just application code
<tjaalton> asac: pre-hardy?
<asac> tjaalton: not sure. since fglrx was usually available i think it was in this cycle where i tried
<tjaalton> asac: -ati in intrepid should support 3d for it
<asac> good ... ill see
<tjaalton> er, mesa
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: how have you been getting on with the CJK font work carried over from last cycle? I know you've still been doing bits to it on and off
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: not finished. language-selector took more time than expected
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: I still have some updates that need to get in before it could be released
<bryce> asac: -ati has been improving rapidly since ATI released documentation.
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: ok, thanks
<asac> bryce: that would be too good to be true ;)
<cjwatson> asac:
<asac> 3g-networking-intrepid (quite good, but as i said before it wouldn't make much sense to stop syncing new snapshots after FF); things to happen until this is finalized: mobile broadband wizard and its provider database to get into main; gsm/cdma probing code for devices that are only recognized as v.250 (upstream decision pending whether this should go to NM or hal); gathering final feedback (especially for the broadband provider database that wil
<asac> flash-experience-intrepid (good progress): beta status for: better description (webservice needs deployment) and plugin alternatives (UI needs to be polished/finalized). good progress: anti-flash-detection-kit (some difficulties to get the event to the proper listener in the browser); at risk: adobe offers deb on their website (adobe will support ubuntu in Flash 10, but debs on their site are at risk); not a feature, but a bug: apturil in UI thre
<asac> firefox-kde-integration-intrepid (deferred): no cycles to implement. real solution should go into upstream for 3.1 (QT support!! yay!).
<asac> (no spec) safe-ffox-upgrade (done/needs real live testing): implementation appears to work well and awaits release with the next ubufox upload
<asac> (no spec/maybe flash experience) nspluginwrapper for i386: finalizing QA on 1.1.0; upload didnt happen because we decided to go for the latest upstream development instead of 1.0. upload should happen any minute
<asac> (no spec) branding-package-split: working with max attention; unless something really bad pops up this will happen during this week
<asac> sorry for the "longer lines" ... but i thought i write things down as there would definitly be questions
<cjwatson> you need to use splitlong.pl or something :)
<slangasek> 3g-networking-intrepid: what's our end-point, as far as snapshot syncing?  Is there an upstream "final release" somewhere on the schedule?
<cjwatson> "database that wil"
<asac> slangasek: the end point is when upstream starts to do intrusive changes again
<cjwatson> and "apturil in UI thre"
<asac> slangasek: which will happen when they switch to modem manager for dialup connections
<asac> i keep my eyes open that no too intrusive things reach us
<asac> from there on i would cherry pick bugs
<slangasek> asac: so we'll be releasing with "the last snapshot before things become disruptive"?
<asac> yes. and then cherry picking on top
<asac> i'd say that we stop after beta in any case
<asac> cjwatson: ... gathering final feedback (especially for the broadband  provider database that will ship by the wizard) during beta phase.
<asac> ... but a bug: apturil in UI thread
<asac> cjwatson: that should complete this?
<cjwatson> oh, that was it, ok
<asac> yes
<cjwatson> all right, thanks all; overall I'm pretty pleased with the amount we've got done, let's just try to get the last few bits and pieces in place for feature freeze and then try to get this heap o' junk into a releasable state ;-)
<bryce> :-)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 28 Aug 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 28 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council
<cjwatson> we've run late, so I'll not bother with stuff like the sponsorship queue today, although please try to keep up your attention to that when you find a spare hour
<cjwatson> any other business?
<TheMuso> no
<slangasek> nope :)
 * doko is heading for bife de chorizo
 * asac is proud that he cleared his queue last week ;)
<asac> doko: sounds tasty
<asac> enjoy
<cjwatson> doko: lucky you
<cjwatson> ok, adjourned
<bryce> thanks
<liw> thanks
<evand> thanks
<doko> bye
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<slangasek> doko: heh, are you still in .ar?
<ogra> thanks
<slangasek> thanks, all
<james_w> thanks all
<TheMuso> thanks
 * TheMuso gets breakfast.
<doko> slangasek: yes, went skiing today =)
 * slangasek looks longingly at the bife de chorizo, a continent away
<doko> will send a photo ;p
<slangasek> cruel
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council
<davidm> Good morning
 * ogra waves
<davidm> #startmeeting
 * yannick_d waves
<lool> davidm: MootBot isn't very alive these days
<davidm> Hmm, mootbot seems to be dead
<davidm> Oh well
<davidm> I'll bug the scribes about it later.
<ogra> (if they are not as dead as their bug)
<davidm> OK first topic and I'll do stuff as if mootbot was online.
<davidm> [topic] lool to purchase USB web camera
<davidm> This is closed, I know lool bought one.
<lool> Done: purchased the dumbest Logitech one which is supported under Ubuntu
<davidm> [topic] lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9)
 * ogra hasnt found one on ubuntu that isnt apart from the Q1 one
<lool> (Might purchase another one with HD support, depending on whether the Q1U's webcam is supproted with 2.6.27)
<ogra> it definately isnt with the latest 2.6.26
<lool> We did some Ekiga testing last Monday, but we completely failed testing video; we only got audio working after great struggling
<lool> And that was under i386
<ogra> there is a driver from the manufaturer i wanted to try though
<davidm> This was harder, we were not able to get this to work well between two PC's audio only.
<ogra> but freeze came in my way
<yannick_d> lool, can you explain what was the issue?
<lool> ogra: 2.6.27 lands many uvc support changes
<ogra> lool, i know
<ogra> and madwifi as well
<ogra> both doesnt work on the Q1 atm
<davidm> yannick_d, we had two issues, one I think is not an issue now, one still is
<lool> yannick_d: We had some; one thing is that we were behind a hotel's nat, and davidm was behind a second nat; despite this audio would work, so it seemed to work
<yannick_d> ok there was a NAT issue. and?
<lool> yannick_d: We also probably lacked a working sip account for video; we never managed one to one calls, only conf calls to a central place
<davidm> yannick_d, I was double natted
<davidm> yannick_d, do you know of a server lool and I can get accounts on that passes video?
<persia> Does ekiga.net not do that?
<ogra> doesnt the ekiga default server ?
<lool> yannick_d: I also tried calling telephones with "tel:" and actual phone numbers with my home sip account at my ISP, and it didn't work
<yannick_d> davidm, a conference server with video? no there is not such thing for free AFAIK
<lool> yannick_d: I'm not sure how they are supposed to look like, but the SIP INVITES looked like INVITE tel:1234@freephonie.net
<yannick_d> lool, the tel: URI might be a problem...
<lool> I thought it would simply be INVITE 1234
<lool> yannick_d: What's the correct way to enter a PSTN?
<yannick_d> lool, try sip:1234@freephonie.net instead
<lool> Didn't manage to get this working either (this is what was going out when I simply typed a pstn with this sip account as the default)
<lool> I tried with and without + and international or local format
<yannick_d> lool, this works with freephonie.net, i have an account here too
<lool> But then, some days it's broken; I didn't have my N810 with me to confirm it was working this day
<lool> yannick_d: Could have been a downtime of the SIP thing
<lool> It was refusing calls with some 4xx codes
<lool> In the testing, we also discovered that davidm's webcam could be supported under hardy and isn't; this requires backporting a simple driver fix for ov56x-jpeg
<davidm> yannick_d, is there a way to make video calls between lool and I?
<lool> davidm: Now there is, because we're at two locations it should be easier
<yannick_d> lool, for testingpurpose, please try using ekiga.net sip server and pc-2-pc calls first. Using a commercial PSTN bridge is another issue which brings stuff like number format issue in the way...
<lool> yannick_d: We tried using ekiga.net accounts as well, but only saw the invites /sometimes/ and never managed an audio call in this wey
<lool> I suspect our network setup was completely unusual and a bad way to test
<yannick_d> davidm, to test video, you both might register an account on ekiga.net for free, and try to call each other.
<davidm> yannick_d, OK we will try again before next week now that I am back in my usual location.
<yannick_d> you could also test the avahi support, if you are both in the same LAN
<lool> yannick_d: We spent too much time fighting webcam drivers and network and sip accounts on monday that we exhausted our testing time and we had other things to do for FF, but I'm happy to /continue/ testing in more regular conditions
<lool> yannick_d: Ah, how is this enabled?
<yannick_d> lool, it is automated
<davidm> yannick_d, we got text support working using avahi but not audio and video
<lool> yannick_d: How do you see the other people around?
<yannick_d> lool, in the roster, under "network neighbours"
<lool> yannick_d: I tried setting it up with empathy and telepathy on monday, but we could only send text messages; we didn't manage to call with salyt
<lool> *salut
<lool> (we also did some quick telepathy testing)
<yannick_d> lool, sip support in EMpathy sucks now...
<lool> Yeah, sofiasip's settings didn't match my expectations
<yannick_d> the buddy list can not contains sip URI in EMpathy last time i tested it.
<lool> yannick_d: So I think we should pursue testing and fix the webcam driver issue we discovered
<yannick_d> I've been able to have a working audio+video call ekiga 2.9<-> Empathy
<lool> yannick_d: If you're in France, we could do tests together too
<davidm> lool, agreed, we will continue testing.
<yannick_d> we aware, empathy use the h263-1998 video codec
<lool> yannick_d: I expect to be quite busy today and tomorrow still, but next week is fine
<davidm> [action] lool+davidm continue testing new version of Ekiga (2.9)
<yannick_d> You can ask help on the ekiga mailling list too, like if you have problem with your nat etc. I'm there too
<davidm> OK, that was all of the old business
<lool> yannick_d: Frankly this was a one time bizarre setup because we had no other way to work this day
<yannick_d> ok
<davidm> [topic] FF status
<lool> (I was routing davidm over my laptop's wired intf towards the hotel's wifi...)
<yannick_d> i'm not sure i'll be able to join for the next week meeting: i must go to work and no internet there...
<ogra> just stop working then :P
<davidm> Is there anything we need to review now here?
<lool> yannick_d: We can chat together anytime, not just during meetings
<lool> yannick_d: If that's mroe convenient, we can test ekiga over the WE together
<yannick_d> lool, where?
<lool> yannick_d: In #ubuntu-mobile?
<yannick_d> ok
<davidm> lool, any FF issues we should/need to cover now?
<lool> yannick_d: I'm lool@ekiga.net, and you can probably easily find an email for me
<yannick_d> ok, thx i'll contact you
<lool> davidm: Well I think we had plenty of packages to push before FF
<lool> I know persia/stevenk/ogra were working on *-default-settings pacakges
<lool> Are both of these pushed?
<ogra> yep, pushed and done
<lool> ogra was to look at pidgin-maemo versus empathy versus pidgin IIRC
<ogra> i'D like to do some minir theme changes for mobile but artwork deadline in in a month
<lool> This might have implied pushing pidgin-maemo if we wanted a chance to keep it in intrepid
<lool> Anyone pushed pidgin-maemo?
<persia> Big FF things are 1) we don't have an IM client, and 2) we need to look at media players (unless I missed something)
<ogra> i didnt manage all of them yet but apart from some security issues with empathy in IRC i found it quite good as replacement
<ogra> i'll finish that off today/tomorrow
<lool> ogra: Ok, then perhaps send your analysis to the list?
<davidm> ogra, does empathy support the various IM protocols?
<ogra> if i need freeze exceptions i'll deal with them myself
<persia> pidgin-maemo and moblin-media-browser-plugin are still on REVU, which makes me think they didn't get pushed.
<ogra> davidm, the same set pidgin does
<lool> davidm: It does even wrap libpurple
<davidm> OK, thanks
<lool> (which is pidgin's lib)
<lool> But empathy was pushed back for intrepid in the desktop team due to usability issues
<StevenK> I'd like to not use moblin-media if I can.
<lool> I think you're not alone
<ogra> lool, we can build from universe if we want it
<lool> I'll push elisa updates
<ogra> so thats a non issue
<lool> I'm late for pushing elisa (new upstream releases and it's in main) but had too many last minute things fall on my plate before FF to manage yesterday
<ogra> and i didnt find it worse than pidgin with fullscreen windows
<ogra> where is the UNR stuff at ?
<lool> Yeah, exactly what I was typing :)
<ogra> :)
<lool> StevenK: I think you were pushing UNR packages
<davidm> StevenK, you here?
<lool> StevenK: how many/which packages did you look at, and what's the status?
<lool> StevenK: I think njpatel rolled a new netbook-remix-launcher tarball to address some concerns I raised and matching the package name
<lool> Hmm we had StevenK a minute ago
<davidm> I have an email from StevenK with FF status: * UNR packages  This is four packages, with all but one of them in okay shape. I suspect this can be massaged into one FFe, too.
<davidm> So they missed FF
<lool> It's late on his side thouhg
<davidm> I wonder where StevenK is, he was around a few minutes ago.
<ogra> davidm, its all universe so a bit easier to deal with exception wise
<Hobbsee> ogra: as in, no one will notice, if the freeze gets violated?  :)
<lool> davidm: The only thing which worries me is making StevenK push UNR packages versus working on the images, but he sent out a link to an image today
<StevenK> I'm here, my wife called me away
<lool> StevenK: Cool, so what is the problematic package?  what needs to be done on the others to get them in intrepid?
<ogra> (actually i assume we culd make a deal with MOTU, review one package for MOTU, get one exception granted or some wuch ... so all of use benefit ;) )
<persia> Hobbsee: No, as in it won't break CD builds and so it is likely to be approved with a convincing reason, rather than a convincing reason + several months of testing.
<ogra> Hobbsee, ^^^
<StevenK> lool: The launcher
<Hobbsee> ogra: now there's an idea... :)
<persia> ogra: It *really* doesn't work that way :p
<StevenK> lool: The other 3 look okay
<ogra> persia, but it *could* ;=
<Hobbsee> persia: no, but it might be a good idea...
<Hobbsee> persia: that's true
<ogra> it raises MOTU manpower and helps us as well
<persia> Right.  And this is why corruption and graft always win :(
<ogra> heh
<lool> StevenK: Ok; I have a fairly good idea of status of launcher; concerning the others did you push them to REVU/got them reviewed already?
<StevenK> lool: No, I will be doing that tomorrow.
<lool> ogra: IOW bribery
<StevenK> I suspect they need repackaging and then uploading
<lool> bribery with free reviews :)
<ogra> well, bribery the community benefits from
<ogra> its a win win deal
<ogra> we could level it out like 10:1 ... or so
<davidm> OK we are 1/2 through our meeting time.
<davidm> lool, anything left on the FF topic that we need to cover?
<lool> davidm: Please give priority to image building for alpha 5 before UNR packaging if that's suitable
<davidm> if not we should move on the other status issues.
<davidm> lool, agreed
<lool> StevenK: Unless you think both are almost done :)
<lool> I don't think we have anything more to discuss on FF; of course we might discover plenty of stuff with the images
<davidm> [topic] status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc.  * StevenK status
<lool> Did I mention I pushed modest?
<davidm> lool, you did not
<lool> I pushed modest to Ubuntu and my ppa
<davidm> good, I'm happy to hear that
<lool> A couple of hours after FF,
 * persia suspects the PPA to have been redundant
<davidm> StevenK, how goes image building?
<lool> It's relatively broken due to missing icons and strings, but that I can probably fix
<StevenK> davidm: The image is up.
<StevenK> But it's broken.
<lool> persia: I think not, I don't see modest in the repos yet and I mailed cgregan for him to take a look
<persia> StevenK: Broken beyond that the default session doesn't start?
<StevenK> persia: Nope, that was it
<lool> davidm: Re: FF, I'd like to note that we're only at 2.6.26 for lpia because it's a separate source
<lool> Need to talk to chickencutclass
<ogra> *if* .27 will be used
<StevenK> I mentioned that earlier.
<persia> The -rt kernel is also stuck at 2.6.26, so we're not alone in kernel version history.
<lool> ogra: In lpia or in general?
<davidm> StevenK, what remains to be done on image building?  Anything?
<ogra> currently the status is that there will be a call for testing as i understood
<davidm> We will have to stick on 2.6.26 for lpia
<ogra> but there is still an opportunity that it might be rolled back
<ogra> davidm, and differ from ubuntu ?
<lool> davidm: Why is that?
<davidm> We need the poulbo graphics driver and that is coming from an outside source
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> thats tricky
<davidm>  I doubt at this late time I can get them to move
<ogra> if work on .26 stops we'll miss out a lot
<persia> Hrm.  Someone ought mention that to the thread on ubuntu-devel@ as part of arguments against movig to 2.6.27
<davidm> I am having trouble getting the driver at all
<ogra> (wifi on the Q1 doesnt work with .26 for example)
<lool> davidm: Well we don't have it anyway
<davidm> But we have a call later today to get info on this so it will have to wait until then.
<lool> ogra: Yeah, wanted to test ath5k as well
<ogra> .27 is supposed to have the necessary fixes for that wifi issue
<ogra> lool, no need to, i had to resort to madwifi for it
<ogra> it wont pick up IP/AP
<lool> I wouldn't want us to have a different kernel version for lpia
<StevenK> They have moved to .27
<StevenK> I wouldn't either
<lool> That seems really risky
<ogra> .27 has massive fixes for ath5k
<ogra> which wont be backported if ubuntu really switches
<davidm> With the atom chip and it's graphics if we move and Intel does not supply a driver then we have no driver at all.
<lool> I don't want to even think about a subsequent udev/hal update
<ogra> so we'll lose here
<lool> davidm: I guess we have vesa
<ogra> heh
<lool> I'm not sure it's that different from psb for our purposes...
<davidm> True, that is about it, and that will not work for USG, they need the driver to work.
<lool> Might even suspend better *cough*
<ogra> but UNR needs clutter
<ogra> and thus GL support
<lool> Is USG going to base on intrepid?
<lool> They maintain their own kernel anyway
<davidm> lool, some work is.  They have to provide upgrades
<davidm> Well technically I suppose we can have 2.6.27 and they can have 2.6.26 but that is a mess
<lool> I agree we should make the poulsbo concern known in the 2.6.27 discussion, but it wont have any weight if we don't even ahve 2.6.26 drivers
<davidm> That is a call later.
<lool> It's no more a mess than us having .26 and Ubuntu having .27
<ogra> davidm, "we" ?
<ogra> ubuntu ?
<ogra> or just mobile ?
<davidm> mobile / USG
<lool> Let's clarify tonight
<davidm> yes
<lool> I'll try to think of updating ubuntu-devel@ on this topic with psb debate
<davidm> persia status of installer
<persia> You know, it'd be best to also participate in the wider discussion.  Having two different kernels for two different architectures is bound to cause issues.
<persia> The installer still doesn't install.  On the bright side, I know lots more about how the installer is supposed to work.
<persia> I think I'm nearly there, but am currently chasing networking issues with the latest image.
<davidm> OK
<davidm> lool status of MIC merges?
<lool> *done*!
<davidm> :-)
<lool> Would like to see a tarball release from them
<lool> I've sent further comments on design of MIC and would be willing to provide a patch to move to / add intrepid platforms
<davidm> So we need to get a tarball release from them and then can put fresh packages into Intrepid?
<lool> But it's not really clear who leads what and whether this thing will evolve
<lool> Well we don't strictly need it; we have about the same features as they do
<ogra> would be cleanr though
<lool> We developped more changes than they did
<ogra> but require a FFe
<lool> Yeah, it would be cleanup
<lool> And it's not strictly needed
<lool> What we would get are a cleaner base to patch on and some features like i18n
<lool> But this is all minor or wishlist material
<davidm> OK
<lool> It's not like we're using MIC anyway
<davidm> Very true.
<persia> It's probably not worth an FFe, but would be nice for intrepid+1
<lool> Sure, I'm the defacto MIC maintainer these days
<davidm> ogra status?
<lool> I'll update it if they release
<davidm> lool, thanks
<ogra> classmate: still fiddling with the gstreamer issue ETA tomorrow for hardy-proposed and SRU
<ogra> touchpads: bug #261873 opened, discussed with bryce ... he agreed that it should eb fixed for release
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261873 in xf86-input-evtouch "make evtouch devices work with hal-input in intrepid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261873
<davidm> ogra, how much left before classmate is put to bed do you think?
<ogra> mobile: settings uploaded, creates a desktop like http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ubuntu-mobile-intrepid.png, waiting for installer (depends on ubuntu user without password for autologin atm
<ogra> )
<ogra> davidm, i will always have to touch it from time to time until 8.04.2
<ogra> for kernel security updates
<davidm> OK
<ogra> but thats all scripted on my side
<ogra> so only some mins of work plus build time, testing and triggering elmo
<davidm> ogra, is the process you use to generate images documented anywhere?  I know that cjwatson had a hard time making a working image in your absence
<ogra> its only: execute ./cron.daily in the build tree
<ogra> that will autobuild
<ogra> i have done my last image in my own env but will take a look at antimony (which has a 1:1 copy of my system)
<davidm> OK 8 minute warning
<davidm> ogra thanks
<davidm> last topic
<ogra> i'd like to put a proposal out :)
<davidm> ???
<ogra> we should start collecting spec ideas for intrepid+1 asap on a wikipage
<davidm> +1
<cjwatson> it wasn't so hard, for the record; just startup problems
<ogra> so we can follow the regular distro/spec process this time, now that the packages are sanely in the archive
<davidm> I agree strongly
<ogra> great
<davidm> cjwatson, thanks for that, I just want to make sure we have it documented so it's not hard if it ever needs be done again. :-)
<ogra> (i.e. al the requests for 1024x756 got me thining about inclusion of a sane patch for gtk for example... that needs preparation for a spec)
<davidm> [topic] Switch claws with modest/libwpeditor libwpeditor-plus?
<davidm> I think you all just about put this to bed last week?
<lool> Hmm I pushed modest and libwpeditor+ to my ppa, but cgregan hadn't a change of testing them
<lool> Also modest suffers from many issues such as missing strings and icons which render it quite ugly
<davidm> but we have the possbility of choice if we need it?
<lool> I think we need to defer discussion until a) I can address some of the issues b) other people can test it c) we test the images
<davidm> 4 minute warning
<davidm> lool, OK
<lool> davidm: Yes exactly, the hurry was to get the packages pushed, they are now
<davidm> thanks
<davidm> I'll carry an acttion to review in future but not next week.
<lool> Which reminds me of two other FF related issues which I usually report on: langpacks and xulrunner; we're still missing translations in intrepid AIUI and xulrunner I didn't merge
<lool> I really need to tend to it now rather tahn later
<davidm> [action] review modest and libwpeditor+ after lool has time to address some of its issues.
 * ogra creates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions
<davidm> OK
<lool> I poked cgregan to have an early look and work with me on solving the issues
<davidm> ogra, thanks
<davidm> lool, good enough
<lool> ogra: Oh nobody told you the codename for intrepid+1?
<davidm> lool, has it been announced?
<lool> No :)
<ogra> heh
<lool> Which makes it even more fun to guess
<davidm> :-)
<davidm> OK almost out of time.
<davidm> any last opens?
<davidm> 1 minute warning
<Hobbsee> the sky is falling!
<lool> The jitty jamthund!
<davidm> #endmeeting
<davidm> Thanks everyone.
 * persia doubts "jamthud"
 * Hobbsee covers lool in jam.
<lool> the jolly jumper!
<lool> The jumpy jellyfish
 * Hobbsee hums
<lool> Or the jelly fish :)
<Hobbsee> jolly jumbuck, i thought it was...
<StevenK> Hah
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 28 Aug 14:00: Ubuntu Java Team | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team
<persia> Who's here for the Java Meeting?
<robilad> here
<Koon> o/
<Koon> the usual suspects :)
<persia> :)
 * persia hopes slytherin and doko might join
<Koon> I /think/ doko is still in vacation.
<persia> Could be.  He was at a meeting earlier.
<persia> Anyway: Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<cjwatson> see the foundations team meeting notes last night for some items relevant to Java
<Koon> I see. /This/ kind of vacation.
<persia> Nobody added anything, so nothing special to discuss.  We've just the RoadMap
 * persia checks the Foundations Team meeting log
<robilad> url?
<persia> Seems that doko is looking at some of the continued changes to use default-jre(-headless), and may also be looking at making it more headless.
<persia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/27/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<persia> We may hear more next week.  On for other updates:
<persia> robilad: Where are you on identifying tasks that need doing?
<robilad> working my way through the maven pom system and trying to figure out a good way to automate that with aptitude
<persia> Is there anything else non-maven that needs doing that would benefit from someone looking into it?
<robilad> basically, when you use maven to build software it downloads many jars
<robilad> and those come with a kind of descriptions, 'pom' files
<robilad> which contain artifact ids
<robilad> which could in theory be fed into aptitude etc. more or less automatically.
<robilad> except that there are many little catches. ;)
<robilad> but getting there.
<persia> So a tool that can read .pom files and pass arguments to apt to tell it what to install?
<robilad> well, to tell me what seems to have a package of sorts, and what hasn't
<robilad> that's the one way to figure out what to do
<Koon> robilad: feel free to add any of your thoughts to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec
<robilad> the other one is to just install all jars in ubuntu, generate a list of packages mapping to each one of them, and then to see which jars in a build match
<persia> Yeah, that feels definitely part of the maven stuff, but it's good :)
<robilad> neither way is really perfect :/
<robilad> and I'm doing the former as it should in theory just require a bit of shell scripting
<robilad> ;)
<Koon> we're still at the brainstorming stage for this maven support thing. Might be useful to schedule a session at next UDS on the subject (though I won't be coming there)
<Koon> and make sure the (other) relevant persons can join.
<persia> Koon: You'll be able to attend remotely, no?
<Koon> persia: I'll definitely try to attend remotely to select sessions
<Koon> but on the maven thing I'm more a catalyst than a specialist
<persia> Koon: Excellent.  Just complain over VoIP if we're not loud enough.
<Koon> and we are getting to a stage where specialists will be handy
<persia> Right.  Let's jump ahead since we're on the topic: Koon: how is maven going?
<slytherin> Koon: what is the status of your maven2 patching effort? Do you need any help? I may be able to lend a hand over weekend. I would rather do it in 5-6 hours stretch than in pieces.
<Koon> the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec presents two alternatives
<Koon> one is the maven2 jpp-patched (the fedora way)
<Koon> the other is kaaloo's maven proxy system
<Koon> the first alternative can theorically be tested using the packages in my PPA
<Koon> (as described in the ubuntu-java email persia kindly resent on my behalf)
<persia> Any update from kaaloo on how the proxy system is coming along?
<Koon> nothing since Aug 12, but August might not be the busiest month for him.
<Koon> my feeling is that it's a nice way around the problem, but I feat the complexity of its implementation
<slytherin> persia how about moving Koon's package to java team ppa?
<Koon> the jpp stuff is more hackish, maybe more work, but much simpler work.
<Koon> i guess I could publish it there
<Koon> (as a member of the team) ?
<persia> slytherin: I don't see much advantage to one PPA over another.  PPAs can depend upon each other if required.
<slytherin> Koon: yes, if you are member
<Koon> anyway, it's probably more useful to push the packaging to the team bzr
<slytherin> persia: The reason I am asking that is anyone else from team can modify and the reupload the package
<persia> slytherin: Ah, with a single source for testing.  Don't let my ambivalence block something you find useful to get something done :)
<slytherin> :-)
<Koon> slytherin: i'll push the current maven2 packaging mods to the team bzr
<slytherin> Koon: next task for you then, move your package to team ppa and add the ppas link on your spec page
<slytherin> Koon: let's setup bzr once we have more than 2 people working on it.
 * slytherin secretly dislikes bzr
<persia> Well, pushing the bzr stuff along with the PPA makes sense, as it keeps things together.
<Koon> OK, I will do a little cleanup, push the packaging to team BZR and the resulting package in team PPA
<persia> Anything else for maven?
<Koon> nothing on my side.
<persia> slytherin: How goes the investigation into performance improvements?  Is that something likely, or is it something we ought drop for now, and pick up later?
<slytherin> persia: drop as of now.
<persia> Anyone else want it before I drop it?
<persia> OK.  Gone.
<persia> slytherin: How about moving stuff to Universe?  Are we caught up with Debian, or still behind?
<slytherin> persia: We are almost with debian, I haven't checked updates in recent weeks. I still have to file few bugs yet.
<persia> slytherin: OK.  Is that progress blocked by anything?
<slytherin> persia: yes, I am short on time. :-)
<persia> Anyone have some time to help slytherin?  The goal here is to identify everything that can be free, so we have a good idea what can be pulled into main.
<slytherin> as a start, if anyone can file bugs for libgdata-java and libcodemodel-java it will be good. They are in sync with Debian.
<persia> slytherin: Could you send a mail to the mailing list describing the steps required, and asking for help?
<slytherin> persia: will do
<persia> OK.
<persia> As a reminder, we've now reached FeatureFreeze: as a result we'll not be adding any new libraries, new software, or new upstream versions to intrepid without especially good reasons.
<persia> Also, any significant changes to behaviour will require an exception.
<persia> Does anyone have anything that they expect to need an exception?
<slytherin> persia: two packages, ant and fop
<persia> slytherin: What do they need?  Especially for ant (as so much build-depends on ant)?
<slytherin> ant has a bug fix release 1.7.1.
<persia> Any new features, or just bug fixes?
<slytherin> persia: AFAIK, just bug fixes
<slytherin> ï»¿fop has a new release 0.95, haven't checked changelog. But debian developer is busy so we won't see an update for long time.
<slytherin> persia: ok, wait - Ant 1.7.1 has extended support for Java6 features. Ant 1.7.1 <script> now has support for JavaFX.
<persia> That would require an exception.  Is it something we *need* for intrepid, or just nice to have?
<slytherin> persia: I will check release notes and see what kind of bug fixes it has. It might be worth having FFE.
<persia> OK.  If we need any, please try to report them as soon as possible.  Approvals can take a while, and we may have to rebuild things.
<persia> Also, we ought generally avoid them if at all possible.
<slytherin> persia: will do both of them by weekend
<persia> OK.  Anyone else have any thing we need to discuss?
<slytherin> I have one thing.
<persia> Yes?
<slytherin> doko is not in favor of removing 'library-gcj' packages from 'Recommends'.
<persia> OK.  Generally he knows best about these things.  What does that cost us?
<Koon> yes, I've expressed a different opinion in bug 249178
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249178 in ecj "libecj-java shouldn't recommend java2-runtime" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249178
<slytherin> persia: that costs users about 20 MB of download.
<Koon> doko proposed to limit the problem by dropping the recomend of libgcj9-0-awt in libgcj9-0
<Koon> personally I think -gcj packages hardly qualify for something you want to have in all but unusual installations, which is the definition of Recommends
<persia> Ah.  Looking again at the Foundations Team meeting log (http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/08/27/%23ubuntu-meeting.html) there is mention of java-gcj-compat-hl
<persia> Does that also help?
<persia> Note also: 23:20	doko	249178 should be uploaded
<Koon> it mitigates the issue
<Koon> you would still get the gcj packages as soon as you install a jar library that happens to have a -gcj counterpart
<Koon> but they wouldn't install all X libraries with them.
<persia> OK.  That makes sense.  So it's more about parallel installation than anything else.
<Koon> yes. If you drop the recommend, GCJ users get lousy performance unless they install the suggested -gcj package
<persia> Personally, I think the wider solution is probably best discussed in concert with Debian.  Having two copies of every library doesn't seem right, but support for gcj remains essential for some architectures.
<Koon> if you keep it, you install useless packages for all those who just use openjdk
<Koon> doko's proposal is to mitigate the issue by limiting the number of useless packages that would be installed
<slytherin> I am not really sure about this lousy performance argument.
<persia> slytherin: Koon: Would either of you be willing to debate this with the Debian Java team?  I think we'll probably only get mitigation for intrepid given the scope of the issue (and number of packages affected), but it would be good to also have a plan for the future.
<persia> slytherin: I thought GCJ didn't have a particularly fast JIT, which is why the native compilation was preferred.
<robilad> it has no jit
<slytherin> persia: For debian default-jre is gcj for lenny. So it may not make much difference for them.
<Koon> I think doko intends to fix it in a more definitive manner for Intrepid+1 anyway
<Koon> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-August/026070.html
<persia> slytherin: For the release as a whole, sure, but it's with those people that a fruitful discussion can be held: otherwise we need to maintain variance on all the libraries that have such recommendations.
<slytherin> persia: I will drop a mail to debian-java list.
<Koon> the best way to make sure we're in line with future debian is to follow doko's suggestions :)
<slytherin> ï»¿Two questions. 1. How many people prefer GCJ over Sun JRE at any point of time. 2. How may people who prefer GCj are not aware of -gcj packages.
<persia> Koon: Well, as far as that goes, it's also the best way to make sure we're in line with future Ubuntu :)
<persia> slytherin: Depends on the architecture.  For some architectures, I expect the answers are 1) everyone, and 2) most of them.
<robilad> i'd have a small dpkg-query question - is there a way to query whether a given file is present anywhere in the archive, even if it is not installed?
<slytherin> robilad: don't think so.
<robilad> dpkg-query -S does a fine job locally but I'd need something that let's me find out whether a jar exist in maybe another package
<persia> I don't think with dpkg-query, but apt-file (or working with Contents.gz) can do that.  Anyway, that question makes me suspect our meeting is over, and we ought take discussion back to #ubuntu-java
<Seveas> robilad, use apt-file
<persia> Thanks everyone.
<robilad> thanks & back to work ;)
<Koon> thanks persia
<slytherin> yup, back to work.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Platform Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-29
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<risman> i want compile gcc 2.95.3 but i cant compile on ubuntu 6.10
<risman> help me!
<leoquant> 6.10 = eggy?
<leoquant> not supported anymore by ubuntu
<leoquant> please upgrade your system
<persia> Well, as importantly, this isn't the right place to ask for support, even when a given version is supported.
<stdin> umm [08:51]* risman has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
<stdin> too late
<persia> stdin: Indeed, far too late.  The two minute barrier is just as critical :)
 * e-jat brb .. zzZZzz sleepy .. 
 * e-jat back .. 
<nijaba> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 29 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<NCommander> good morning all
<NCommander> (or afternoon)
<norsetto> good TOD
<NCommander> It's almost time for the release meeting, no?
<TheMuso> Yes pretty much.
<NCommander> Any objection if I start it?
<norsetto> NCommander: yes
 * NCommander doesn't start it then
<ScottK> I'm here.
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: ?
<laga> i'm here, too. the other mythbuntu guys are probably asleep so i'll be the mythbuntu representative.
 * ScottK looks around for sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> sorry, was just at the restroom
<sistpoty|work> shall I start?
<TheMuso> Ok lets get this show on the road.
<sistpoty|work> #startmeeting
<sistpoty|work> hm...
<sistpoty|work> [startmeeting]
<NCommander> THis isn't scheduled meeting is it?
<NCommander> Well, offically scheduled
<TheMuso> not so much as its on the calendar etc.
<NCommander> We've had issues starting xubuntu-dev meetings when we fall off the calendar
<NCommander> That or the bot crashed again
<sistpoty|work> ok, let's do w.o. MootBot then
<persia> The bot hasn't been responsive for the past couple days.
<sistpoty|work> welcome everyone to the motu-release meeting :)
<NCommander> Thank you sistpoty|work
<NCommander> ;-)
<sistpoty|work> anyone volunteering to write minutes?
<sistpoty|work> if noone volunteers, I'd be up for it
<TheMuso> No, as I intend to pull myself from Ubuntu work after this meeting for a week.
<TheMuso> sorry
<NCommander> I'll do it if no one volunteers
<sistpoty|work> ok, thanks NCommander
<NCommander> I didn't see an agenda posted for this meeting
<ScottK> There isn't a formal one.
<sistpoty|work> well, it's pretty much in my head *g*
<NCommander> Anyone want to just recap whats on the floor so everyone is on the same page?
<ScottK> This is an organizational meeting.
<NCommander> oh
<sistpoty|work> as it was just brought up on ubuntu-motu, let's start with motu-release <-> ubuntu-release
<sistpoty|work> there was the question, whether ubuntu-release may approve motu-release bugs, if there's need
 * siretart waves
<sistpoty|work> which imo makes sense, what do you think?
<sistpoty|work> hi siretart
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: They've certainly done it in the past.
<TheMuso> Thats fine by me.
<ScottK> I doubt we can convince them they aren't allowed to.
 * NCommander can't see an issue with it
<ScottK> My view is that they may, but they generally ought not.
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: I don't see a problem with that, supposed they really willing to take over ...
<siretart> consider packages in main with binaries in universe. that's for ubuntu-release anyway, no?
<sistpoty|work> siretart: imho yes
<TheMuso> sistpoty|work: agreed.
<ScottK> Of course.
<sistpoty|work> I guess the main use case is packages with MIR's pending (where I usually handed over to ubuntu-release anyways)
<sistpoty|work> ok, so we agreed on that one... what next
<ScottK> Obviously ubuntu-release must make the release as a whole work and if there's an urgent issue they need to deal with it.
<ScottK> Freeze exceptions
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: yes, agreed
<ScottK> I don't recall.  Did we do one or two ack's in Hardy?
<NCommander> I know offhand both mythbuntu and wine have requested standing freeze exceptions, are there any others?
<sistpoty|work> ok, how do we handle freeze exceptoins? two acks? one acks? different handling for upstream versions and new packages?
<NCommander> (both had sFFes in hardy. It required two acks from -release)
<ScottK> NCommander: I was going to go with standing exceptions next
<TheMuso> 2
<NCommander> Oh, my bad
<persia> I'd like to request that any universe flavour be permitted to shift selected software, etc. without a specific freeze exception.
<TheMuso> we did 2 afaicr
<laga> persia: ACK
<TheMuso> persia: seconded
<sistpoty|work> persia: what do you mean with "shift selected software"?
<norsetto> 2
<ScottK> persia: Let's deal with exceptions after the basic process.
<persia> Also tweak default settings, and the like.
<persia> sistpoty|work: changes to seeds.
<sistpoty|work> ah, yes, sure
<laga> persia: and add new artwork ;)
 * ScottK gives up.
<persia> laga: Well, that's covered under the ArtWorkDeadline, which I believe is separate.
<laga> indeed.
<sistpoty|work> ok, do we want to go with 2 acks again?
<ScottK> laga: But not if it has to go through the New queue.
<ScottK> Yes.
<TheMuso> yes.
<ScottK> persia: I don't think there is one anymore.
<\sh> what is a universe flavour?
<norsetto> +1
<persia> \sh: Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, Ubuntu Studio, Ubuntu Mobile, Ubuntu MID
<ScottK> Nevermind, there is.
<sistpoty|work> ok, so 2 acks it shall be
 * NCommander has some notes on seeds when we get there
<ogra> ScottK, Artwork deadline is in about a month
<ScottK> ogra: Thanks.  Just looked.
<sistpoty|work> ogra: there is more than one artwork deadline actually *g*
<NCommander> There were some recent changes w.r.t. to how seeds are being handled now. Not sure if -release is fully aware
<laga> ScottK: i don't see what's wrong with getting new artwork thru NEW
<\sh> persia: shrug
<cjwatson> FWIW our experience in core was that seed freezes were tempting but a waste of time
<ScottK> laga: Part of the reason for not allowing new packages is late in the release cycle is archive admins have stuff other than New to do.
<cjwatson> they're not necessarily more disruptive than other code changes and might as well just be considered in the same light, i.e. whether they're internal changes or whether they actually introduce new features
<ScottK> Personally, I think each flavor with a seed needs to manage it.
<ScottK> I don't see that as an issue for motu-release.
<sistpoty|work> ok, maybe we want to go straight to delegatoins?
<NCommander> ScottK, that's happened. At least with xubuntu, we directly control our own seed now.
<laga> ScottK: there are always exceptions. not allowing NEW packages because "archive admins have other stuff to do" is not exactly a good reason.
<sistpoty|work> do we want delegations again?
<ScottK> laga: Requiring one ask for an exception is not the same thing as saying none will be allowed.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Yes.
 * sistpoty|work is also in favor
<laga> ScottK: agreed. EOD.
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: definetively yes from me
<TheMuso> agreed.
<\sh> if we can move those packages handled by the "universe flavour teams" out of the scope of the general motus, agreed...if they break something, we are not at fault...
<persia> And if they break something, their images fail, which tends to be a strong motivation to fix it.
<\sh> that means, merging, syncing for the next release will only be work on by those teams, right?
<ScottK> \sh: Not necessarily.
<ScottK> It just means they get to manage their own release process.
<sistpoty|work> ok, so what teams do we delegate to? iirc we had mozilla, kubuntu, desktop, mythbuntu and xubuntu in the last cycle... any team I forgot?
<raphink> @schedule paris
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 01 Sep 06:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 29 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Release | 02 Sep 17:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 23:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 19:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: didn't we have ubuntustudio too
<NCommander> sistpoty|work, studio
<ScottK> Not a team, but we also had WINE.
<TheMuso> I'm expecting there to be a bit of activity as we settle the rt kernel.
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: right, I forgot that TheMuso handled studio
<sistpoty|work> (as a delegate *g*)
<sistpoty|work> any teams we should add to the list for this cycle?
<persia> ubuntu-mobile-dev for Ubuntu Mobile and Ubuntu MID please
<ScottK> I think KDE should definitely be delegated to Riddell.  He'll manage it for Main and it'd be silly for us not to let him deal with the whole thing.
<norsetto> any reason actually to have wine having a standing exception?
<persia> Also, Ubuntu-Studio-dev for Ubuntu Studio
<ScottK> persia: We need individuals.
 * ogra raises hand for ubuntu-mobile
<persia> ScottK: OK.  _MMA_ for Ubuntustudio, ogra for ubuntu-mobile, lool for ubuntu-mid
<\sh> norsetto: because you want the latest release always for wine...
<sistpoty|work> what's ubuntu-mid?
<NCommander> norsetto, wine drops new updates every two weeks, and very few rdepends. Having a newer wine allows better windows software compatibility
<norsetto> \sh:  why?
<persia> sistpoty|work: Really small devices.
<laga> superm1 and me for mythbuntu
<ogra> sistpoty|work, 4-7" devices
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Similar to mobile
<sistpoty|work> ah
<norsetto> yes, thats also true for other packages, I don't see why wine is special
<ogra> ScottK, totally different :) but yes
<laga> (unless there are objections because i'm not a motu)
<sistpoty|work> what about edubuntu? ogra do you have sets in universe?
<\sh> norsetto: because with every release wine gets better, we have two week releases...and that needs to be handled ... wine has at least no rdepends and doesn't break anything else
<ogra> sistpoty|work, there is one metapackage LaserJock maintains
<ogra> sistpoty|work, bit the bigger amount is in main
<norsetto> \sh: as I said, that true for., hmmm, 50% of universe packages?
<persia> \sh: Wine does have rdepends.
<ScottK> I think superm1 for mythbuntu
<cjwatson> sistpoty|work: "mobile internet device"
<siretart> NCommander: I'm not sure I follow that argument, because if we did, we would have to update it every two weeks in -updates as well
<NCommander> That was (roughly) the justification the original standing FFE was given last time around
<NCommander> I'm not saying it was right or not ;-)
<laga> ScottK: i'd like to nominate myself, too. i've spent a lot of time inside these packages.
<persia> laga: I think it's best one person per flavour, unless you think it oughtn't be cody-sommerville
<laga> alright.
<NCommander> This is for seed managment?
<sistpoty|work> ok, ScottK suggested superm1 for mythbuntu... +1 from me
<laga> not sure what cody-sommerville has to do with mythbuntu ;)
<\sh> persia: oh well...I see...i wonder what is education-desktop-othger
 * NCommander got slightly lost
<\sh> other even
<sistpoty|work> norsetto, TheMuso, DktrKranz: superm1 for mythbuntu?
<ScottK> I'm going to suggest that WINE should no longer get a free pass because it's past 1.0 now.
<TheMuso> Yes.
<persia> NCommander: For delegated approvals for seed-specific stuff.
<norsetto> ScottK: +1
<NCommander> If its xubuntu related, I can do it
<TheMuso> ScottK: I am enclined to agree.
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work, +1
<\sh> can someone ask yokozar ?
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: +1
<sistpoty|work> ok, so superm1 for mythbuntu...
<NCommander> Agreed on wine, +1
<TheMuso> Yes.
<siretart> sistpoty|work: I'd like to nominate \sh and myself for updates to 'fai'
<sistpoty|work> cody for xubuntu?
<ScottK> \sh: If he wants an exception, I'm unlikely to say no, but I think he should ask.
<siretart> sistpoty|work: and 'live-initramfs'
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: +1
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Yes.
<TheMuso> cody for xubuntu yes
<\sh> ScottK: na now that I see that other packages are stupidly depending on wine...
<sistpoty|work> ok, agreed on xubuntu/cody
<ScottK> siretart: Why does FAI need an exception?
<sistpoty|work> let's first discuss the remaining teams we already agreed on so far, ok?
<NCommander> Has anyone asked cody about handling approvals of seed related stuff? ATM, any xubuntu-dev can manipulate the seed now
<sistpoty|work> kubuntu: Riddell? (and Riddell would you accept the delegation again?)
<ScottK> NCommander: How he manages that is up to him.
<sistpoty|work> agreed
<NCommander> ok
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Definitely.
<NCommander> +1 on Riddel for kubuntu
<ScottK> asac for mozillateam
<TheMuso> ScottK: +1
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: yep... asac also ok with the delegatoin?
<\sh> what about python-launchpad-bugs?
<ScottK> \sh: What about it?
<DktrKranz> \sh, isn't it in main?
<sistpoty|work> let's first discuss teams please... instead of single packages :)
<ScottK> Historically there have been very few per-package delegations.
<ScottK> OK.
<\sh> oh good :)
<ScottK> Did we cover all the teams?
<Riddell> sistpoty|work: can do
<NCommander> What about xubuntu-eee, that's a different team from normal xubuntu
<sistpoty|work> excellent, thanks Riddell
<siretart> ScottK: I haven't merged the current svn yet. It doesn't make too much sense to merge it in the beginning of the cycle anyways
<TheMuso> who did we decide for studio?
<ScottK> NCommander: Is that a derivative for xubuntu then?
<persia> NCommander: It's not an official flavour at this point.
<ScottK> TheMuso: You.
<sistpoty|work> TheMuso: we didn't anything yet... do you want to handle studio again?
<TheMuso> I'm not bothered either way, only that I won't be here for the next week.
<NCommander> Ok, just making sure
<persia> I propose _MMA_ for approvals, unless TheMuso especially wants it.
<TheMuso> I'm not bothered either way.
<ScottK> _MMA_ then.
<sistpoty|work> +1
<TheMuso> +1
<sistpoty|work> norsetto, DktrKranz?
<DktrKranz> no objections
<ScottK> Before we get off of teams, I think we also need to discuss what packages it covers.
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: sorry, I was distracted by another discussion
<laga> ScottK: yes.
<sistpoty|work> np
<persia> ScottK: There are more teams.  Can we cover the rest before we move to that?
<sistpoty|work> we still have -desktop
<sistpoty|work> (at least)
<ScottK> Gnome has a standing freeze exception
<sistpoty|work> for hardy, I think it was policy to subscribe ubuntu-desktop, but I'd actually prefer an individual
<ScottK> That's from ubuntu-release.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: but only core gnome-packages
<sistpoty|work> (i.e. these that drop out of a gnome release)(
<ScottK> OK.
<sistpoty|work> well, any suggestions?
<DktrKranz> isn't a "gnome freeze exception" too free for sparse packages in universe?
<ScottK> I think for those that get release in Gnome, it's covered.  For desktop packages in Universe, not in Gnome there is no exception.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: It's packages released as part of Gnome, not all packages that use Gnome.
<persia> I think only if they are part of the official GNOME release.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Same for Riddell and KDE.
<DktrKranz> ah, thanks for the clarification
<norsetto> ScottK: so, should we assume all kde4- packages have a standing freeze exception or not ?
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: hm... actually I thought Riddell could handle any kde packages, wether these were part of kde or the surroundings (since he certainly knows best how these fit in)?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: For delegations, I agree.  For the standing freeze exception that I know KDE will need, no.
<sistpoty|work> ah, k
<ScottK> I'd leave it to Riddell to decide if it's KDEish enough and approve it if he cares to.
<sistpoty|work> agreed
<ScottK> It may be there's a person or two on motu-release who knows a little about KDE also.
 * sistpoty|work only uses it :P
<ScottK> We'll work on that.
<sistpoty|work> ok, back to gnome-desktop... do we want delegations, and if so whom?
<ScottK> Isn't Keybuck the lead for that?
<DktrKranz> seb128?
<ScottK> Personally I think we don't need it.
<persia> I thought pitti was the Desktop lead now.
<norsetto> sistpoty|work, scottk: wasn't that seb128?
<ScottK> I've no idea.
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: certainly was... no idea if he still is though
<norsetto> last cycle it was seb128 anyway
<Riddell> seb128 is your man for gnome packages
<ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
<persia> Anyway, for Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, and Edubuntu, everything ought be in main, so I don't see the rationale for motu-release delegation: surely that requires ubuntu-release attention.
<sistpoty|work> ok, agreed then, but we'll still need to ask him
<sistpoty|work> ubuntu-mobile?
<ScottK> persia: I know the KDE situation better.  In that case there are official KDE packages that we leave in Universe.  I'd imagine Gnome is the same.
<ScottK> That was ogra, right?
<sistpoty|work> +1 for ogra
<persia> ScottK: Ah, that makes sense then.  Objection withdrawn.
<TheMuso> +1
<ogra> yep, that was me
<DktrKranz> if ogra is fine with it, +1
<sistpoty|work> norsetto?
 * ogra is :)
<norsetto> also if ogra is not fine with it, +1 :-)
<ogra> lol
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> ubuntu-mid?
<ScottK> ogra: Will you be working out of the official repository this release or will you maintain something separate also?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: lool
<sistpoty|work> +1
<ogra> ScottK, official only
<ScottK> ogra: Thanks.
 * ogra has never used PPAs for packages 
<ogra> i'm actually not a fan of separation :)
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz, TheMuso, norsetto: lool for ubuntu-mid?
<DktrKranz> persia, aren't you involved in -mid too?
<TheMuso> +1
<ogra> DktrKranz, as he is in mobile
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: +1
<sistpoty|work> and lool: would you accept the delegation?
<ogra> DktrKranz, persia is involved in *everything* ;)
<persia> DktrKranz: Yes, but I'm not on a release team.
<DktrKranz> heh :)
<DktrKranz> +1 for lool for -mid as well
<norsetto> persia aka the Ubuntu deus-ex-machina
<ScottK> I have to go wake up my daughter.  Back in two.
<sistpoty|work> ok, any other team that I forgot right now?
<ogra> yeah, he has root on all your machines ... beware
 * sistpoty|work is scrared *g*
<persia> sistpoty|work: Did you do -server?
<sistpoty|work> nope
<persia> Do you want to do -server?
<lool> sistpoty|work: I do
<DktrKranz> there are several packages in universe, AFAIK
<sistpoty|work> so what about -server? imo it's covered by ScottK, but I wouldn't necessarily mind a delegation
<sistpoty|work> thanks lool
<DktrKranz> (for -server)
<DktrKranz> so, if server team has plans for some of them, a delegation should be granted
<lool> win 10
<lool> Ups
<sistpoty|work> TheMuso, norsetto: server-team? if so, suggestions?
<ScottK> If you all want to delegate, I'm OK with it.
<DktrKranz> mathiaz could do the job, if he agrees
<TheMuso> I don't know who to suggest, but I'm ok with deligations.
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: -1
<ScottK> I would object to Mathiaz
<sistpoty|work> due to recent incidents *g*
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: whats better than good old ScottK
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: +1 for ScottK
<DktrKranz> ah... ruby...
<ScottK> I'm not convinced we need a server delegate, but if others feel the need, I don't object.
 * siretart has to agree with ScottK that the ruby issue wasn't handled very ubuntu-like. at least not what I would expect from someone who signed the CoC
<norsetto> siretart: pls. lets not start this here ...
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: /me doesn't have a preference, as you'll handle it either way ;)
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz, TheMuso, norsetto: so ScottK as delegate, or motu-release for server?
<sistpoty|work> (or s.th. else=
<persia> I don't see the point of assigning a delegate who is also motu-release.
<persia> Let's skip server.
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: I said it already, scottk all the way
<TheMuso> If ScottK is up for it, thats fine by me, thats if he thinks the server team needs deligations.
<ScottK> persia: It means I don't need ack #2.
<persia> Ah, then it is worth a vote :)
<DktrKranz> I'm fine with ScottK, motu-release hat is not a blocker, IMHO
<sistpoty|work> otherwise TheMuso would be out *g*
<sistpoty|work> (for studio)
<sistpoty|work> ok, then ScottK/ubuntu-server
<sistpoty|work> more teams?
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work, if persia had motu-release, he's out for *everything* :)
<sistpoty|work> haha
<norsetto> DktrKranz: be aware, He is taking notes
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: you were questioning about package sets of delegations, right?
<ScottK> Yes.
<sistpoty|work> go ahead then ;)
<ScottK> As an example, the myth packages are important to mythbuntu, but they are not the only user.
<sistpoty|work> ok, I guess if there's a certain amount of overlap, it's better that motu-release coordinates, what do you think?
<ScottK> For Xubuntu, I think we delegate xfce and xubuntu specific packages, but not necessarily every single package they seed.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> In the last cycle, there was a myth specific excption that was granted by motu-release.
<TheMuso> sounds ok to me
<sistpoty|work> I usually did ask the affected teams anyway last cycle for input
<ScottK> So for mythbuntu it's packages specific to them.
<ScottK> For xubuntu, it's xubuntu packages and xfce4
<ScottK> For Studio it's there specific packages and ???? - not sure what
<ogra> .oO(what *are* xubuntu packages ? seeded ones ?)
<ogra> (or mobile in my case)
<ScottK> Their meta-packages, artwork, the like.
<persia> meta, settings, artwork, etc. ?
<_MMA_> -rt
<ogra> not the ones that are only used n their seeds as well ?
<sistpoty|work> well, I assume that delegates will ask back if unsure, so I'm not too sure if need to come down to specific package sets
<ScottK> I'd like to ask the delgatees what they think it should cover.
 * ogra would like to cover all packages that are only explicitly in his seed 
<ScottK> ogra: Perhaps, but not if you aren't the only one that has it seeded
<ogra> right
<ogra> then motu-release needs to apply
<ScottK> ogra: Could you generate a list of what that covers?
<sistpoty|work> oh, damn... I must run in 7 minutes :(
<ogra> not right away yet, but i can do one, yes ... we should probably all do that
<ScottK> Generically, I'd like to see each delegate give us a list of what they think they've got covered
<ScottK> Yes.
<ogra> yeah
<NCommander> sistpoty|work, I may have to run before this meeting is over, if so, I'll read the logs and write the notes when I get back
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: sounds like a nice idea..
<_MMA_> Rough list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PackageList
<laga> ScottK: for mythbuntu, we'll need everything in the mythbuntu-* namespace, anything involving mythtv and stuff like xmltv
<sistpoty|work> at least it would avoid confusion whom to ask
<sistpoty|work> NCommander: kk
<ScottK> laga: We'll have to argue over that a bit then since you aren't the only interested party with mythtv, but we needn
<ScottK> needn't do it now
 * DktrKranz needs to go right now, read the log
<persia> Right.  Perhaps delegates could reply to the mail including the meeting minutes with an explicit list of packages they are asking to be able to approve?
<ogra> right
<persia> motu-release could then approve or amend the list?
<TheMuso> sounds good.
<ogra> or suggest changes
<_MMA_> ï»¿But it doesn't need to be everythng. Off the top of my head I'd say anything ubuntustudio-*, -rt kernel Ardour and JACK are usually ones that need love in past cycles.
<laga> ScottK: same argument applies to xubuntu - they aren't the only ones interested in xfce.
<persia> laga: Let's not argue specifics here.  Just submit the list, and see what can be approved.
<ogra> we should probably discuss that on the ML ... i would think the team that *mostly* uses them might also be a valid case
<laga> okay.
<_MMA_> sure
<sistpoty|work> ok, agreed on the lists thingy
<ogra> laga, i.e. i might like dvb-utils in mobile at some point ... but i'd happily leave decisions for that to mythbuntu
<ScottK> I'll be back in about two minutes
<ScottK> Keep going
<sistpoty|work> ok, what else do we need to cover?
<norsetto> wifeys is calling for luch, gotta go
<laga> ogra: i dont think dvb-utils sees that many changes :) and it's not like people want to break stuff. IMHO it's about taking care of packages you know well without having too much bureaucracy
<laga> but that's a bit OT now
<ogra> was just an example :)
 * ogra has a conf call now ... but will lurk
<sistpoty|work> standing freeze exception process?
 * lool same as ogra 
<sistpoty|work> how about a mail to ubuntu-motu and at least three ubuntu-release membes giving a +1 to grant one? other ideas?
<sistpoty|work> s/ubuntu-release/motu-release/
<sistpoty|work> damn, gotta run as well :(
<TheMuso> sistpoty|work: sounds good
<TheMuso> i will reply when I return from my holiday.
<sistpoty|work> TheMuso: have fun!
<ScottK> Fine with me.
<sistpoty|work> oh, personal side note: I'll be on vac during next week as well...
<ScottK> Per package delegations is next.
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: can you take over hosting, as I need to go now?
<ScottK> OK.
<sistpoty|work> thanks
<ScottK> I'm not convinced we have a quorum anymore for decision making.
<ScottK> I'd suggest anyone who feels a need for a per-package delgation mail the MOTU ML and we'll discuss it.
<TheMuso> I agree.
<ScottK> OK.  Anything else?
<james_w> I have a suggestion
<james_w> well, two
<ScottK> Yes?
<ScottK> I have something else too
<ScottK> I propose we get rid of the diffstat requirement in freeze exceptions.  It's pretty meaningless.
<ScottK> james_w: Go ahead.
<james_w> firstly, I think having a clear policy within the team about how a member should put a hold on a particular freeze exception while more discussion happens, or something similar, is a good idea.
<james_w> and perhaps extending that to how people outside the team might be able to do that.
<ScottK> Generally we've done that by needing +2 but not approving if any motu-release member had an objection.
<ScottK> And if others have input, I don't think we'd ignore that an press on.
<siretart> james_w: like in 'writing 2-3 sentences risk analysis' for each requst?
<james_w> well, there was an incident last cycle where a couple of members were unhappy that a change was uploaded while they felt their concerns were still outstanding
<TheMuso> ScottK: +1 for removing the need for diffstats.
<james_w> making it clear what should happen should help avoid that.
<ScottK> Fair enough.
<siretart> ScottK: the diffstat shows that the requester did take a look at the diff
<ScottK> siretart: I think it shows they know how to run the diffstat command.
<ScottK> Actually looking is a different issue.
<james_w> I think asking for an overview of the changes and an assesment of the risk is far more effective at showing that, and far more useful
<ScottK> I know this is something cjwatson had a strong opinion on.
<cjwatson> oh god yes
<cjwatson> namely, please get rid of the diffstat requirement, it's never been useful :)
<ScottK> +1
<siretart> ScottK: well, it still makes it more obvious at once how big the changes are. but maybe we are too lax anyways with granting exceptions to large changes so they've become meaningless already
<cjwatson> in fact in some cases it's been counterproductive because people send the diffstat rather than the diff :)
<siretart> oh
<ScottK> I think having something about risk assessment is more useful.
<cjwatson> if release team members want a diffstat it's surely not difficult to run it themselves; they need to glance over the diff anyway
<cjwatson> if a release team member is approving things without looking at the diff then they aren't doing their job right, imo
<siretart> k
<ScottK> I remember the other thing we need to discuss ...
<ScottK> Do bugfix only releases need an exception?
<ScottK> We experimented with not last time and I think it worked well.
<james_w> I think it's reasonable, but I think you need more -release members to discuss it
<persia> I like having a bug for those, whether a special ACK is required or not.
<ScottK> Which is what we did last time
<ScottK> So we can take it to the ML
<ScottK> Are we done then?
<persia> Right.
 * ScottK says the meeting is over.
<persia> Did you get enough votes to squelch diffstat, or will that need to be discussed at the later meeting as well?
<TheMuso> Ok thanks folks. See you all in 10 days or so.
<ScottK> persia: I'm going to believe that I did.
<persia> ScottK: OK.  Let's hope it makes the minutes.
 * persia thinks diffstats are actually useful.
<lool> w00t
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Release Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 20:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<lool> slangasek: Are you chairing the meeting today?
<mdz> slangasek: hello?
<mdz> #startmeeting
<mdz> MootBot: :'-(
<lool> Yeah, broken
<slangasek> mm, sorry
<slangasek> morning :/
<slangasek> no MootBot today?
<mdz> afraid not
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/41581/ agenda
<mdz> let's charge ahead though
 * slangasek nods
<mdz> would be good to have hyperlinks in the agenda for the bug lists
<lool> (Mootbot is broken for a couple of ubuntu-mobile meetings)
<slangasek> are folks here?
<mdz> davidm and pgraner are here, just spoke to them
<mdz> cjwatson is on a phone interview
<mdz> heno_ connected a moment ago
<heno_> hi
<lool> Scott is on leave I think
<mdz> yes
<lool> as well as pitti
<mdz> missing dendrobates?
<davidm> I bugged the scribes about mootbot yesterday
<lool> I saw Hobbsee some hours ago I think, but she's offline right now
<slangasek> yes, Hobbsee let me know she wouldn't be able to make it
<slangasek> and I think that accounts for everyone
<lool> ScottK was invited as well
<lool> and Riddell
<slangasek> Riddell is also on leave, I believe; ScottK: there?
<lool> Here he is
<mdz> we have a quorum; let's get started
<slangasek> agenda, with links: http://paste.ubuntu.com/41584/
<mdz> bug 255635 pitti was working on, but he's not back from holiday until Monday I think
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255635 in sysklogd "Kernel messages not logged to /var/log/kern.log" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255635
<slangasek> the list of known blockers is short, but we have two among them that currently don't have assignees
<mdz> bug 250506 is is milestoned but not assigned to anyone
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250506 in consolekit "shutdown and restart buttons do nothing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250506
<slangasek> I can try to look at 255635 today, and pass it back to pitti again if I don't get through it
<mdz> there are also 3 critical bugs on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs (not on the agenda, but should be)
<slangasek> I think 250506 was seb's/pitti's area, both of whom are currently out
<lool> Agreed on #250506, and as it's quite security sensitive, pitti is the right person IMO
<slangasek> ok; I'll assign 250506 to pitti
<lool> We could either revert to GDM doing shutdown/reboot, or allow everybody to shutdown/reboot via dbus as upstream does, or find a creative solution
<lool> I suspect the former will happen as it might take a while to sort out
<slangasek> cjwatson: the last bug on there is yours, bug #254042 - any concerns there?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254042 in germinate "debootstrap does not install apt with --variant=buildd for intrepid chroot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254042
<cjwatson> no concerns but I haven't made progress yet, as it were
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> ok, moving to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs as mdz pointed out
<slangasek> there are three bugs listed as critical there: bug #197680, bug #253076, and bug #247376
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 197680 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "rotation doesn't work with this board using Screen Resolution" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197680
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253076 in linux "No X with current kernel (downgrade fixes it)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253076
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247376 in fglrx-installer "undefined symbols when trying to load fglrx" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247376
<slangasek> bug #197680 appears to have been considered fixed already, and was reopened last week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 197680 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "rotation doesn't work with this board using Screen Resolution" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197680
<slangasek> I'll follow up with bryce about that today
<lool> bug #253076 looks fixed in .27
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253076 in linux "No X with current kernel (downgrade fixes it)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253076
<lool> "
<lool> "Seems to be fixed in .27-1
<tseliot> bug # 247376 depends on the fact that (currently) the fglrx driver doesn't work with the new Xorg ABI
<tseliot> #247376
<lool> I understand that fglrx for intrepid might land post intrepid
<slangasek> right, bug #253076 is tentatively resolved, contingent on 2.6.27; we'll come to that later
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253076 in linux "No X with current kernel (downgrade fixes it)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253076
<tseliot> lool: yes, this is likely. superm1 can you comment on this?
<slangasek> in any case, that's not something we can set an alpha-5 timetable for
<slangasek> unfortunately
<lool> Bryce also said on ubunu-devel that AMD had based work on 2.6.26 rather than .27, but as fglrx now builds against linux 2.6.27 in Ubuntu that should be ok
<lool> I don't think we can do anything for alpha 5 except sit and wait for a new fglrx; perhaps something to mention in the known bugs?
<slangasek> yes, good point; adding an ubuntu-release-notes task
<tseliot> we should do it for the 2 nvidia legacy drivers affected by the same problem too
<tseliot> (96, 71)
<slangasek> there are a significant number of other high-importance bugs on that list without milestones; I don't think we need to go through those individually right now, I'll go through the list myself afterwards to find any that need to be milestoned
<slangasek> let's move on to talking with the teams, about any would-be-blockers they have that aren't on that list
<slangasek> lool: would you care to start?
<mdz> the list of high-importance bugs targeted for intrepid might be a good source of would-be blockers as well
<lool> slangasek: Sure
<slangasek> er, yes - I meant, any would-be blockers that aren't already milestoned
<lool> So concerning mobile, we now have daily images being built daily for the mid seed
<lool> The mid seed is the intrepid seed for hardy's mobile seed
<lool> The images are around since a couple of days and have many technical issues, but it's good to have something to test and work on now
<lool> The major things to land are the installer
<lool> Emmet is still working on tweaking Ubiquity and we will include his work before alpha 5
<lool> Another major thing is 2.6.27
<slangasek> cjwatson: I'm assuming that it's best to leave you 'til last since you're on a phone call now, shout if you become available sooner
<lool> We're using the linux-lpia source package, which is still at 2.6.26
<mdz> lool: are the test images for the Q1 Ultra?
<lool> I'm experiencing issue with our dailies which point at the kernel (apt-get update hangs), so .27 might be worhthwhile
<slangasek> are the ubiquity tweaks on-track to be in the archive before Tuesday (milestone freeze)?
<lool> mdz: You can boot the image in kvm and the Q1, but it's super ugly; Xorg wont come up without fixing the upstart event for instance
<lool> (fixed this morning)
<pgraner> lool: is assistnace needed from the kernel team to help get you to .27
<lool> slangasek: I would have to check with persia; we basically set a hard deadline on having an installer before alpha 5
<lool> slangasek: I'll confirm with him that he knows about the deadline
<slangasek> lool: ok; if those aren't going to be done by Tuesday, please keep the release team informed, since that will impact ISO building
<lool> pgraner: I've proposed a phone call between Michael Frey and Amit next week
<lool> pgraner: I've summarized our dilemma on ubuntu-devel@; basically we asked Intel for .26 drivers and still haven't got any
<slangasek> next week> so linux-lpia to .27 is looking like post-alpha-5?
<pgraner> lool: we need to revisit that amit is on other things, I'll join the call in his place
<lool> In all cases, it's likely we aim at using whatever intrepid uses as a kernel number
<lool> pgraner: Ok; we need to discuss security support of linux-lpia for the intrepid cycle too; will include you when I setup the meeting next week
<davidm> we may have issues for the poulsbo drivers however, trying to sort that out.
<pgraner> lool: ack
<pgraner> davidm: eta on that? need anything from us?
<lool> slangasek: linux-lpia .27 should be decided after next week's call with Intel was my proposal; this week's call didn't help us in any way sadly
<slangasek> ok
<davidm> pgraner, I'll catch you off line, to review possible steps
<pgraner> davidm: ack
<slangasek> lool: are there any particular ubiquity bugs that I should add to my milestoned list?
<davidm> pgraner, no eta, working with Intel
<lool> Finally, the other major things we need to land for mobile are some new source packages, most in NEW or REVU pending upload to NEW
<lool> All mobile specific naturally
<lool> In terms of feature, we didn't yet decide of which IM and mail client we would include; I pushed modest and we didn't push the pidgin-maemo fork which are the main candidates, versus thunderbird and empathy ATM
<lool> slangasek: No particular ubiquity bugs that I know of
<lool> slangasek: My understanding is that Emmet's work is around simplifying the installation procedure, and fitting the UI on the small screen
 * slangasek nods
<lool> These are the main things for mobile, so quite a lot as you see; we're generally a bit late in the cycle
<ogra> mdz, as soon as the ubuntu-mobile image is built, bug #261873 is fixed and ubiquity is there you can test ubuntu-mobile on the Q1 as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261873 in xf86-input-evtouch "make evtouch devices work with hal-input in intrepid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261873
<lool> Oh right there's also the evtouch issue on the Q1
<lool> and ath5k doesn't work on the Q1
<slangasek> fwiw, unless there've been more uploads since yesterday, I believe all your NEW packages have cleared the queue now
<ogra> right
<lool> even with .27, according to ogra's testing
<ogra> i'll attack evtouch mid next week
<ogra> and i'm supposed to file the ath5k bug before end of my workday today and connect with rtg for that
<lool> slangasek: I see my uploads were cleared; don't know when the other NEW packages were pushed exactly
<slangasek> sounds like we've pretty thoroughly covered mobile then, and everyone knows what's on their plate; anything else before moving on?
<lool> Oh soryr forgot that we also have to select media player
<ogra> note that most/many of your NEW packages are universe
<lool> No NEW package invoved though as moblin-media isn't an option so far
<ogra> (so migth not actually be on steves radar)
<lool> ogra: (good point)
<ScottK-laptop> And motu-release has delegated authority for their respective areas to lool and ogra so in Universe they control their own destiny.
<lool> slangasek: Ok to move on
<slangasek> lool: since you're the emergency contact for the desktop team this week too :), do you have anything on that front?
<lool> One thing I'd like to mention is the Gtk+ screen flicker issue
<lool> #245383 I think
<lool> bug #245383
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245383 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "Screen flickers when loading applications" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245383
<lool> It's quite annoying as it causes a delay on startup and will cause your screen to go black and  light again
<mdz> there are a variety of GNOME crashers (gnome-power-manager and gvfsd-trash come to mind) which seem fairly important but I don't see on the bug lists (they are reported though)
<lool> The issue is also relatively deep and the proposed fix is to add xrandr API which will take a long while
<lool> I guess we might revert gtk+'s changes on this area, but I'm not sure how easy taht is
<lool> mdz: Could you please bump them to >= high?
<slangasek> 245383 is milestoned, but doesn't have anyone assigned (beyond "desktop")
<slangasek> lool: do you know who would look into the GTK flicker problem?
<mdz> lool: bug 252174 is already high
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252174 in gvfs "gvfsd-trash crashed with SIGSEGV in g_main_context_dispatch()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/252174
<lool> I don't have much time to work on it before alpha 5  :-/
<mdz> 46 duplicates!
 * ogra has seen it as well already
<mdz> probably deserves an apport dupe filter
<lool> slangasek: I guess to revert the gtk changes could go on seb128's plate if he doesn't mind, but I didn't check when he comes back
<nizarus> @schedule tunis
<ubottu> Schedule for Africa/Tunis: Current meeting: Ubuntu Release 02 Sep 17:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 23:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 19:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Maryland LoCo IRC
<lool> Probably too late
<slangasek> seb128 is back Monday, I believe
<mdz> the gnome-power-manager one I am thinking of most closely matches bug 149746 but that's very old
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 149746 in gnome-power-manager "gnome-power-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149746
<lool> I've had gnome-settings-daemon crash on me a couple of times, but as a heisenbug already reported with some dups
<slangasek> ... which is pretty standard, so assigning it to seb128 wouldn't be worse than assigning it to anyone else; should I do so, or do you want to talk with seb first?
<ogra> tedg is the g-p-m maintainer
<lool> Please assign to seb and mention that I can help on the issue
<slangasek> assigned
 * k0p is away: I'm busy right now
<slangasek> bug #252174 escalated; with 46 dupes, we should try to get that out of the way for alpha-5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 252174 in gvfs "gvfsd-trash crashed with SIGSEGV in g_main_context_dispatch()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/252174
<slangasek> ... if I can pick the right milestone from the pull-down, that is
<slangasek> mdz: should a new bug report be filed about the g-p-m crash, or do you think 149746 is the same bug?
<mdz> slangasek: I have a crash file for what I saw; it looked sufficiently similar that I didn't file a new one, but since it's happening to me constantly, I don't think it's the same
<mdz> I will file a new bug with the crash report when I'm at home where the crash file is, and drop you a note with the bug number
<slangasek> mdz: ok, thanks
<mdz> (though I'm curious if I'm the only one with a spastic g-p-m)
<slangasek> any other high-profile desktop bugs?
<lool> dunno whether I should be reporting on specs progress again; I mentionned that the fast-user-switch-applet IM and session integrations landed, but IM doesn't work properly for me
<slangasek> was just about to ask about specs :)
<ogra> mdz, i didnt have issues yet ... so might be HW or settings specific
<slangasek> lool: are you still working with tedg on those IM issues, then?
<lool> I was asked to work on better-login-speed intrepid-menus-review as time permits
<slangasek> neither of those are alpha-5 material, I guess
<lool> slangasek: I think he reproduces; he received all my complaints and knew about the most important ones already
<lool> slangasek: I understand that he will address them ASAP, but we didn't discuss any alpha 5 deadline for them
<slangasek> you and I talked about intrepid-device-permissions, I think that was already mostly done before pitti went on vacation and I fixed the last PAM bit this week
<lool> I find the red button icon ugly when you startup a fresh intrepid image for instance, because there's no IM running at all
 * slangasek nods
<lool> One personal desktop thing I'd like to land before alpha 5 is an elisa update
<lool> 0.5.x series
<lool> I have to finish reviewing the packaging and push them, I hope today or this WE, just after I get an ack on a FFE
<slangasek> yes, you mentioned that to me earlier; is a FFe bug filed?
<lool> Not yet
<lool> Will do just after the meeting
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else, or should we move on?
<lool> Finally, now that I have a webcam I can pick the cheese update
<lool> We still are on 2.22 cheese and miss many new features developped during gsoc
<mdz> slangasek: let's move on, this is starting to drag
<lool> I was the casual cheese sponsor, tremolux was doing the packaging updates; sadly he has been busy or on holiday
<slangasek> dendrobates: hi
<dendrobates> slangasek: hi
<slangasek> dendrobates: what news in the land of servers?
<ScottK-laptop> slangasek: I can generally speak to Kubuntu status if you want it.
<dendrobates> we would really like to get bug 261847 taken care of.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261847 in openjdk-6 "Installing openjdk-6-jre-headless pulls in dbus/avahi" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261847
<slangasek> ScottK-laptop: let's pick that up after server team
<slangasek> dendrobates: I believe I saw some uploads in connection with that?
<slangasek> or were those uploads to make other packages use -headless?
<mdz> doko doesn't seem to be online
<slangasek> doko is also on holiday this week, until Monday
<dendrobates> slangasek: part of the problem was fixed, but at least, as of yesterday, this still existed.
<slangasek> dendrobates: has someone spoken with doko about this directly yet?
<dendrobates> we also have a serious regression in likewise-open, bug 262264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262264 in likewise-open "Fails to join a domain: Unknown pam configuration" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262264
<dendrobates> slangasek: yes, but we haven't reached an agreement yet.
<slangasek> right, that'll be tied to the new pam framework landing
<dendrobates> slangasek: yes, Jerry is working on it now.
<slangasek> dendrobates: ok, so it's more than just a question of whether doko will have time to work on it Monday, even
<dendrobates> slangasek: we can do it, it is really, wheter he will agree to it or not.
<slangasek> 261847 is milestoned to alpha-6, which looks like the right target under the circumstances
<mdz> slangasek: doko is not back until Tuesday
<slangasek> oh, indeed
<mdz> perhaps someone else should have a look
<lool> (What's the rationale for having the mdns recommends?)
<dendrobates> cjwatson is aware of this as well.
<slangasek> mdz: well, it appears to be a design decision rather than a straightforward bugfix; do we have anyone other than doko who would make such decisions for openjdk?
<slangasek> dendrobates: it'd be really great if we could get likewise using the new pam framework; feel free to point Jerry my way on that
<mdz> slangasek: punt to cjwatson
<slangasek> mdz: ok
<dendrobates> slangasek: already did.  :)
<dendrobates> we also have landscape-client that is almost done with it's security review.
<slangasek> dendrobates: any other bugs to be escalated, or "unsettling" changes between now and the milestone?
<dendrobates> slangasek: no.
<slangasek> ok.  you and I can discuss landscape-client status offline/as-needed; let's move on so we can stay within time
<slangasek> pgraner: kernel?
<pgraner> slangasek: sure
<slangasek> oh, sorry
<slangasek> backing up
<slangasek> ScottK-laptop: kubuntu?
<ScottK-laptop> The big thing for Kubuntu is KDE 4.1.1 was released this week.
<ScottK-laptop> It's being packaged now and we plan to push it on Monday.
<ScottK-laptop> So that should be a bit interesting.
<ScottK-laptop> The only major bug issue I'm aware of is Knetworkmanager not working with networkmanager right now.  I think Riddell was looking at it.
<slangasek> well, looks like kubuntu ISOs currently have plenty of space to grow, so at least that's not a concern :)
<ScottK-laptop> We updated the remaining KDE bits in Intrepid to 3.5.10 this week.
<ScottK-laptop> Published the full suite to hardy-backports with only a few minor regressions reported and none that relate to packages that are still KDE3 in Intrepid
<ScottK-laptop> I think that's it.
<ScottK-laptop> On a personal note 3.5.10 was the first time I've packaged an entire KDE release all by myself.  That was interesting.
<slangasek> ScottK-laptop: thanks for the update
<slangasek> pgraner: kernel :)
<ScottK-laptop> You're welcome.
<cjwatson> ok, sorry I couldn't make it until now
<pgraner> slangasek: sure (one more time :-) )
<pgraner> 2.6.27 Call for Testing (CFT) went out yesterday. So far we've been tracking upstream regressions [LINK http://bugzilla.kernel.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=11167&hide_resolved=1]
<pgraner> In addition to Regressions reported by our users [LINK https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-2.6.27] they are tagged with regression-2.6.27 for easy searching
<pgraner> Bugs in 2.6.26 and prior that are fixed by 2.6.27 are tagged with fixed-2.6.27 [LINK https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=fixed-2.6.27]
<pgraner> New 2.6.27 bugs are tagged with linux-2.6.27 [LINK https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=linux-2.6.27]
<pgraner> The fallback plan in the event of everything going south is documented here: [LINK https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/2.6.27-kernel-plan]
<pgraner> So far the worst regression from 2.6.26 is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/linux/+bug/253076
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 253076 in linux "No X with current kernel (downgrade fixes it)" [Critical,Triaged]
<pgraner> Suspend/Resume failures
<slangasek> are the incompatibilities with third-party drivers also being tracked as "regressions"?
<mdz> pgraner: and bug 262539 of course ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262539 in linux "2.6.27 REGRESSION, hangs during boot while preparing restricted drivers" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262539
<pgraner> slangasek: other than the nvidia/fglrx no
<slangasek> ok; but those two are?
<pgraner> slangasek: we are tracking them but they were broke in some form or fashion in 2.6.26 so we are not calling them "regressions" to 2.6.27, we are tracking tho.
<slangasek> 253076> seems to be a bug that was a regression in /2.6.26/, and is fixed in 2.6.27
<slangasek> (as mentioned earlier)
<pgraner> slangasek: it would appear so on 253076
<mdz> and it's tagged fixed-2.6.27, not regression-2.6.27
 * pgraner nods
<mdz> I'll test a couple of laptops with 2.6.27 over the weekend and see what happens
<heno_> the fallback plan looks workable to me from a QA perspective
<slangasek> I notice that on <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/2.6.27-kernel-plan>, fglrx/nvidia are not listed as decision criteria
<mdz> heno_: what about the 2.6.27 certification test?
<slangasek> nor is there mention of certification test
 * ogra can report 253076 fixed on his laptop
<heno_> I have a call with pgraner after this meeting to coordinate beefing up hardware testing in our labs with .27 and have discussed it with Marc also
<pgraner> slangasek: certification is working after this meeting, will be updated once a plan is decided
<ogra> (with .27)
<heno_> we are planning specific push on that
<slangasek> mdz: I guess the 'linux-2.6.27' tag made it show up on the list of "new 2.6.27 bugs"
<pgraner> slangasek: Given we don't have much control over nvidia/fglrx I'm not sure we want to use that as decision criteria
<heno_> We need to run more comprehensive tests on all the machines (autotest, LSB etc) and see what falls out
<slangasek> well, I think we need to have our eyes open to the consequences of not treating nvidia/fglrx as a blocker
<heno_> and also make sure the kernel team has easy access to machines for debugging and testing
<pgraner> heno_: ack on that
<ogra> slangasek, and communicate that well in advance and very loud this time ...
<slangasek> that's not something I look forward to being in the middle of trying to communicate
<lool> release notes task again?
<ogra> well, we shoudl do better than we did for the 8.04.1 hardy issues i mean
<ogra> which imho was not loud enough as the footnote we had put in
<slangasek> ... I'm not looking forward to the binary driver support turning into an 8.10.1, either
<ogra> indeed ...
<mdz> next?
<cjwatson> I guess that can be me
<cjwatson> feature freeze exceptions raised by my team were:
<slangasek> cjwatson: go ahead
<cjwatson>  * new pulseaudio to match new alsa and new kernel
<cjwatson>  * experimental python 3 packages (not by default, maybe not really FFe)
<cjwatson>  * system-cleaner (tonight, I'm told)
<cjwatson>  * usb-installer-images (ditto)
<cjwatson>  * dvd-performance-hacks (ditto)
<cjwatson>  * timezone map changes for ubiquity
<cjwatson>  * openoffice.org 3 (again, not by default, parallel-installable)
<cjwatson>  * xorg-options-editor needs promotion to main I think
<cjwatson> and I think that's about it
<mdz> freeze exceptions should probably be a standing agenda item from here on out
<lool> pulseaudio> I understand git's version carries plenty of fixes; wouldn't it make sense to simply push that before alpha 5 to get more testing and revert to the current version if it's too borken?
<cjwatson> as others have said, the fglrx issue is a major one. I'm told that the devprivates rework in the X server has left fglrx with a bit of catching up to do
<mdz> has fglrx been screwed twice, by X and kernel?
<cjwatson> mdz: yes
<mdz> fantastic
<cjwatson> lool: only thing is that Luke's on holiday next week
<cjwatson> I was told that 2.6.27 would "add to the risk", and I think that was posted on the -devel thread
<mdz> next year, let's everyone go on holiday at the same time, it would be much more convenient
<lool> That's actually what happens in August in France *cough*
<cjwatson> several people mentioned 261847. doko is caught between a rock and a hard place here; he had (semi-legit) release-critical bugs filed in Debian when it was the other way round, because Java's network resolver was unable to resolve names without libnss-mdns
<mdz> cjwatson: unable to resolve names *at all*?
<cjwatson> e.g. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477211
<ubottu> Debian bug 477211 in ia32-sun-java6-bin "ia32-sun-java6-bin: Cannot resolve domain names" [Grave,Open]
<cjwatson> yes. I have no idea why
<cjwatson> I think that is a bug but simply dropping the recommendation to a suggests does not seem like the obviously right fix
<cjwatson> so I am very reluctant to overrule doko in his absence, and would rather wait 'til he gets back
<lool> Isn't it because using system's nsswitch.conf in a 32-bits jvm which couldn't find libmdns?
<mdz> that bug looks like it's probably specific to biarch, no?
<cjwatson> in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=430917 Aurelien said "The 64-bit version should also depends on libnss-mdns. If it is not installed you get the exact same error."
<ubottu> Debian bug 430917 in libc6-ie86 "Java programs fail in name resolution." [Important,Closed]
<cjwatson> I haven't ripped my system apart to test, but Aurelien isn't someone I'd automatically mistrust
<lool> He might mean the 64 bits version in a 32-bits system?
<cjwatson> he might, but that wasn't the implication I drew
<mdz> we can't debug it here, but it seems like this would benefit from a closer look
<mdz> perhaps even before matthias gets back
<slangasek> let's pick that up on #ubuntu-devel after, then
<cjwatson> it's a one-day delay, and as slangasek said alpha-6 does not seem an unreasonable target for this. I agree that it's intrepid-critical to resolve but don't see that it's alpha-5-critical
<slangasek> cjwatson: so for xorg-options-editor, is "x-kit" the package in need of promotion?
<cjwatson> that and screen-resolution-extra I think
<slangasek> neither appears to have MIRs going yet?
<cjwatson> I asked bryce to file those but looks like he hasn't yet
<cjwatson> I'll remind him
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> heno_: QA?
<heno_> Our smoke testing found some problems with OEM mode. It seems to work on Ubuntu now, but there is still an open bug on Kubuntu (#251634). See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
 * slangasek targets
<heno_> Other than that, we have concerns about the kernel SRUs we will get after Intrepid is out
<slangasek> in general / as a perceived consequence of 2.6.27?
<heno_> as noted, I'll have some talks with pgraner about the .27 process
 * slangasek nods
<heno_> slangasek: the latter, we are scheduling an SRU before release here
<heno_> though we often have kernel SRUs post release anyway, but I was hoping to reduce that
<ogra> wasnt that reduced by the new policy ?
<heno_> anyway, we'll monitor it over the next few weeks
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> anything else you've noted that should be alpha-5 critical?
<heno_> not that I'm aware of
<mdz> we need to see hardware test results very soon
<heno_> agreed. It's on my urgent list
<mdz> thanks
<slangasek> ScottK-laptop: anything for motu-release?
<ScottK-laptop> We had a good organizational meeting this morning.
<ScottK-laptop> 4 of 5 are returning from Hardy, so the team's in good shape.
<cjwatson> on 251634, I could do with help from a KDE developer
<slangasek> interleaving a bit, since we're over time: ISO size has been stable and very good, the last round of reductions made a big difference
<ScottK-laptop> The hot ticket at the moment is that it seems there are some developers who might have rushed to upload stuff before FF.
<cjwatson> I'm not sure how much of the stderr spew there is actually fatal
<cjwatson> rushed> just like every other Ubuntu freeze :)
<ScottK-laptop> Rushed yes, but rushed some things that appear to have been particularly unfortunate.
<ScottK-laptop> So we're looking into it.
<Riddell> cjwatson: the oem stuff is on my todo to look at, I can try and look next week
<cjwatson> ta
<slangasek> ScottK-laptop: FFe process under control for you guys at the moment?
<ScottK-laptop> yes.
<ScottK-laptop> We're repeating mostly what we did for hardy and doing a lot of delegation to experts.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK-laptop> We're also repeating the idea of continuing to allow new upstreams that are only bugfix.
<ScottK-laptop> No other news.
<slangasek> sounds good
<slangasek> ok, items left on the agenda
<slangasek>  * Hardware testing
<slangasek> that's been discussed above
<slangasek>  * Future issues expected to impact the release (e.g. major upstream changes pending)
<slangasek> I /hope/ those have all been covered by this point, if not please contact me ASAP after the meeting to discuss :)
<slangasek>   * status of issues found in previous milestone
<slangasek> I'll go through those myself after the meeting, to not hold people up, and escalate any that still need attention
<slangasek> anything else, or shall we adjourn?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<slangasek> thanks, folks!
<mdz> slangasek: do you maintain a list of those (future upstream issues) somewhere?
<lool> Bye
<slangasek> mdz: not currently; I don't think there's been any carry-over from previous milestones, but I'll review the previous logs to confirm, and can make a point to add any that do carry over to the agendas
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 02 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 02 Sep 21:00: Community Council | 03 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 03 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team
<keffie_jayx> j #openbravo
<keffie_jayx> upssss
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-08-31
<hamslaai> join #ubuntu-za
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-24
<iulian> Hi.
<ScottK> Hi
<ScottK> Is it that time?
<iulian> date -u shows 19:00 UTC so yes.
 * ScottK looks around for vorian and sistpoty.
<iulian> Hello sistpoty.
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.  vorian then.
<sistpoty> hi iulian
<ScottK> I'd say let's start.
<sistpoty> let's go for it
<iulian> OK.
<ScottK> I think things generally went well last cycle.
<sistpoty> agreed
<iulian> Indeed.  The process is the same as it was the last release, right?
<iulian> Is there anyne who would like to change something?
 * iulian is fine with it.
<sistpoty> I'm in favor of keeping it, it worked quite good
<ScottK> iulian: Would you be up for sending a mail to ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-motu after the meeting?
<ScottK> I'd like it if someone else would start attending the weekly release meetings on Fridays.
<ScottK> (in addition to me)
<iulian> ScottK: Yes, sure.
<sistpoty> I shall try, but I can't promise due to $work obligations
<iulian> Well, I'll try as well.
<ScottK> That's my problem is increasing work obligations and I want to make sure someone is there.
<iulian> We'll work it out.
<ScottK> Do we need to make any changes in delegations?
<iulian> Does anyone have the list of delegates handy?
<ScottK> I'd like to make Vorian the Qt/KDE delegate for this cycle.
 * sistpoty looks up what delegations we had
<sistpoty> ScottK: sounds like a good idea
<iulian> ScottK: Sounds good.
<sistpoty> delegates were https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-February/000533.html
<sistpoty> and an update that mr_pouit later was added for Xubuntu
<Riddell> has vorian agreed to that?
<ScottK> I had forgotten that it was Riddell last cycle.
<ScottK> Riddell: How do you feel about it?
<Riddell> if vorian agrees to it that's great, but last I heard he was busy with work
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> We can make it tentative pending his agreement.
<sistpoty> Riddell: would you mind acting as fallback then?
<Riddell> I assume we're talking about universe FF exceptions
<sistpoty> yep
<Riddell> I can be fallback yes
<Riddell> there's also plenty of other ninjas who could be suitable
<sistpoty> cool :)
<vorian> hehe
<vorian> rr
<iulian> Hey vorian!
<vorian> here, is what I meant
<vorian> sorry for being late
<sistpoty> hi vorian
<vorian> howdy iulian and sistpoty
<vorian> Riddell: i've been busy moving, i'll be must less busy starting today
<vorian> s/must/much
<Riddell> super
<ScottK> vorian: So you're up for it then?
<vorian> ScottK: sure, that would be great
<sistpoty> excellent
<sistpoty> next up, mythbuntu superm1 again?
<iulian> Sounds good, yes.
<vorian> agreed, if he's up to id
<sistpoty> (just asking him in -motu)
<sistpoty> he agrees :)
<iulian> It seems that he has just agreed.
<vorian> excellent :)
<sistpoty> cody-somerville for xubuntu again?
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: how about being motu-release delegate again for xubuntu?
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, Sure. I'd also recommend mr_pouit to be a delegate as well.
<iulian> He is, as far as I know.
<ScottK> Yes.  mr. puit too.
<ScottK> Or however you spell that (sorry)
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: right, same as last cycle... I even wrote that here and already forgot again *g*
<cody-somerville> :)
<sistpoty> must be dinner draining all my blood from the brain *g*
<iulian> Heh
<sistpoty> asac for mozilla team again? (iirc there was a backup there as well)
<ScottK> fta maybe?
<iulian> fta maybe?
<iulian> Oh.
<sistpoty> heh, yes, exactly
<iulian> OK, fta agreed as well.
<iulian> Ubuntu studio - luisbg and _MMA_?
<sistpoty> ubuntustudio: luisbg and _MMA_ again?
 * sistpoty bows to iulian :)
<sistpoty> +1
<vorian> haha, love the timing
<iulian> +1 from me too.
<vorian> sounds good, +1
<ScottK> +1
<iulian> I think we should have mailed them before the meeting.
<iulian> Anyway, it looks like they are all online, that's cool.
<sistpoty> (almost)
<iulian> Well, yea.
<sistpoty> gnome: seb128? iirc he proposed to use ubuntu-desktop ml as point of contact last time
<iulian> So, does that mean we should mail ubuntu-desktop to find out who will be the delegate for gnome?
 * sistpoty must admit he prefers a person who's responsible in the end, but that person could of course delegate tasks further down the line
<ScottK> Maybe we don't have one.
<ScottK> I'm not comfortable delegating to a list.
 * ScottK doesn't know enough about who does Gnome stuff to have alternative suggestions.
<vorian> heh, that's what I was just thinking
<sistpoty> let's ask on ubuntu-desktop ml as iulian suggested, and reach the decision who shall be delegate by mail, ok?
<vorian> sounds good
<ScottK> OK
<iulian> I'll write the e-mail if nobody steps in.
<ScottK> Great.
<sistpoty> thanks iulian
<ScottK> I think that's it.
<sistpoty> netbook/MID?
<iulian> Netbook, MID?
<ScottK> StevenK.
<sistpoty> +1
<iulian> +1
<vorian> +1 :)
<sistpoty> anyone to ask him? (he seems afk right now)
<sistpoty> <- lives in a bad time zone for that *g*
<vorian> i'll prolly be up when he wakes up
<sistpoty> heh, thanks
<vorian> :) no problemo
<iulian> Cool.
<sistpoty> server ScottK again?
<vorian> i don't trust him
<vorian> :P
<sistpoty> haha
<iulian> :)
<vorian> +1 if he's up to it
<sistpoty> ScottK: can you ask ScottK if he's up for -server again?
<sistpoty> *g*
<vorian> hehe
 * sistpoty imagines changing hats now
<iulian> sistpoty: He is still looking for him, be patient.
<sistpoty> heh
<iulian> Let's move on to Edubuntu in the mean time.
<iulian> LaserJock?
<ScottK> I'm up for it
<iulian> OK, cool.
<sistpoty> does anyone know if he already got his PhD? if not laserjock should really be working on his thesis :P
<mhall119|work> I think he just got it recently
<sistpoty> oh, nice!
<iulian> Wonderful.
<vorian> yeah, and he's moving to MA
<sistpoty> oh, so is he avail atm? or busy moving?
<vorian> i'm not sure when he's moving
<vorian> maybe stgraber should be considered as well
<sistpoty> just thought that as well
<ScottK> He did get his PhD.
<ScottK> I'd say let's not delegate anyone.
<vorian> ok
<ScottK> AFAICT, Edubuntu is essentially dead ATM.
<sistpoty> oh... :/ then no delegation seems best
<vorian> morgs has been keeping up with sugar stuff last I could tell, i guess we can handle that though
<mhall119|work> ScottK: that's not what I was hearing this morning, there's a big effort to revive it with Karmic
<ScottK> mhall119|work: I'll believe it when I see work being done.
<mhall119|work> 12:13 < highvoltage> mhall119|work: we've been putting the pieces togeher and have been listening to our users more, this next release will be more like a 1.0 release again
<ScottK> OK.
<mhall119|work> not sure what actual work has been done, but #edubuntu is usually pretty active
<ScottK> Well if they need FFe the can ask and if it's clear we can delegate to someone, then we can do it when it's clear who.
<sistpoty> sounds sane, and we can always ask stgraber or laserjock for input on FFe bugs, once there are any :)
<iulian> That'd be great.
<vorian> good good
<sistpoty> any other team that should have a delegate?
<mhall119|work> someone in #edubuntu just confirmed that LaserJock is between internet connections, I'm guessing because of the move
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.  We can discuss it with him when he reappears.
<iulian> These are all the teams if I'm not wrong.
<ScottK> I think so.
 * sistpoty just checked what -devel mailing lists we actually have, and think all are covered :)
<sistpoty> so, we'll leave the procedure as is? 2 acks for an FFe to be valid?
<sistpoty> how did we handle new package exceptions again? 2 acks as well, or did we require s.th. else?
<ScottK> Yes and new upstream releases that are bugfix only, just need a bug for documentation, no FFe.
<sistpoty> right
<ScottK> New packages also needed an ack from an archive admin they could look at it.
<sbalneav> Hello, looking for someone from Edubuntu?
<ScottK> motu-release should get the aa ack so they don't get inundated.
 * highvoltage also saw the ping in #edubuntu
<sistpoty> ScottK: right, sounds sane
<sistpoty> hi sbalneav and highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi sistpoty
<iulian> OK, sounds good.
<ScottK> Also for a new package there should be a good reason tied to a planned feature of the release.
<sistpoty> we've been discussing motu-release delegations and wondered wether edubuntu is still alive and if we'll hence need a delegate for universe freeze exceptions
<sbalneav> Still alive. :)
<ScottK> And who is leading Edubuntu development to be a likely candidate.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: ?  I'm not even a motu, as most of my stuff's in ppa.  You or LaserJock?
<sbalneav> LaserJock for sure.
<ScottK> OK.  Well let's wait for LaserJock to reappear then.
<highvoltage> It would between LaserJock and stgraber, I'm applying for MOTU soon, but I'm not one myself yet
<highvoltage> ScottK: LaserJock is busy moving and may be unavailable for a few days, if this is urgent, please let me know, stgraber is a core-dev so he can handle any emergencies
<sistpoty> yep, agreed ScottK
<ScottK> highvoltage: It can wait a few days.
<highvoltage> ok, sbalneav and I will keep note and ping LaserJock when he returns
<sistpoty> thanks!
<ScottK> Anyone know how the o-caml transition is going?
<ScottK> ghc6 is done except ia64 is broken and likely to remain that way.
<sistpoty> no idea to be honest
<ScottK> iulian: Could you hunt down status on that?
<ScottK> boost transitions are done.
<iulian> Laney should know more about it, I believe.  I'll have a word with him.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Laney> I'm here
<Laney> what's up?
<ScottK> Any other major movements in progress we should know about?
<sistpoty> is there a ffmpeg transition needed?
<iulian> Laney: Excellent, could you please tell us what's the status of the o-caml transition?
<Laney> I assume you mean Haskell
<ScottK> I thought we were doing both.
<ScottK> I know Haskell is done.
<Laney> OCaml is done as far as I know, but I'm nothing to do with that
<Laney> try geser I believe
<ScottK> Who was doing that one?
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> iulian: ^^
<Laney> There was a "done" message to u-d-d the other day
<iulian> Ah-ha.
<Laney> Haskell: http://cs.nott.ac.uk/~ial/graph.pdf
<Laney> there are various problems due to other arches being out of sync but they will be solved with give-backs
<ScottK> Laney: Do you need any help with that?
<Laney> ScottK: Maybe, I've not run the stats yet
<Laney> cjwatson helped me with ppc by repeately giving back all FTBFS until it caught up
<ScottK> OK.  If you need more givebacks, I can do them.
<Laney> cool
<Laney> The other remaining problem is IA64, and you can see status of that in debian bug 539789
<sistpoty> ScottK: as in mass-givebacks? cool!
<ubottu> Debian bug 539789 in ghc6 "FTBFS on ia64" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/539789
<ScottK> sistpoty: I have to do it the hard way via LP.
<Laney> Debian is considering p-a-sing GHC for now
<Laney> I'm following it
<sistpoty> ScottK: oh, I guess I can do that, too... or at least could do it last cycle
<ScottK> You can
<Laney> any MOTU can do it
<sistpoty> hm... ffmpeg-extra is still in new, and if I read it right, we'll need a transition there as well: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-August/028747.html
<ScottK> Probably.
<ScottK> Can you chat with siretart about it and see what his plan is?
<ScottK> sistpoty: ^^
<sistpoty> ScottK: sure, can do. (though he's on vac the next 3 weeks, but I guess he'll be online tomorrow :))
<ScottK> Well if he's gone that long I hope he has someone working on this in the mean time.
<ScottK> I also went through most of the R packages and updated them so for R we should be in good shape.
<ScottK> Anyone have anything else?
<sistpoty> we recieved our first request for a standing ffe already (audacity)
<sistpoty> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-August/006079.html
<ScottK> Isn't that one historically troubling?
<ScottK> Or am I thinking of another one.
<vorian> yikes, that's cutting it a bit close
<sistpoty> ScottK: you're thinking of audacious, I guess
<sistpoty> at least I first thought of audacious *g*
<ScottK> COuld be.
<sistpoty> hm... audacity is seeded for ubuntu-studio cd's?
<sistpoty> I guess I'd really like to hear input from luisbg on it then
<ScottK> Yep.
<iulian> Yea, it is.
 * siretart reads my name?
<sistpoty> siretart: do we need a transition for ffmpeg(-extra)?
<siretart> sistpoty: yes, but it is really straight forward
<siretart> sistpoty: the only effective change is a shlibs change from -unstripped- to -extra-, so a simple rebuild is enough
<ScottK> siretart: Who's going to coordinate it (I understand you're going on vac)?
<sistpoty> I guess I could do that
<ScottK> Excellent.
<siretart> ScottK: yes, that's right. I'll be away for about 3 weeks
<siretart> sistpoty: thanks!
<sistpoty> np ;)
<ScottK> siretart: Have a nice vacation.
<siretart> btw, I've seen 'audacity'
<siretart> if you are considering updating to 1.3.8 (the latest upstream release, we have 1.3.7), I'd suggest to not do that
<sistpoty> oh?
<siretart> the 1.3.8 release doesn't work with our ffmpeg 0.5 release, but needs a newer ffmpeg that we are not going to ship
<siretart> there is discussion about this upstream right now
<sistpoty> bdrung_: ^^
<sistpoty> :/
<siretart> he is the one that started this discussion upstream
<sistpoty> ah, I see
<siretart> so bdrung is perfectly aware of that :-)
<bdrung_> yes, i started this discussion and the ffe request.
<siretart> ok
<bdrung_> if someone want's to play with 1.3.8 he/she can grab it from the git repo or my ppa
<siretart> then you are all aware of the problem with ffmpeg. that's what I wanted to make sure
<bdrung_> yes. i tried to write a patch, but i failed.
<sistpoty> thanks for the info!
<sistpoty> oh, how do we generally want to handle standing FFe-requests for karmic? consensus from everyone?
<ScottK> Consensus.
<vorian> sounds good
<iulian> +1
<ScottK> It sounds to me like audacity is a no go for now.
<siretart> ScottK: ffmpeg is not a strict dependencies, it is even loaded via dlopen() only.
<ScottK> OK, but that issue ought to get sorted first.
<siretart> ScottK: still, I'd consider lack of avcodec support a serious regression. OTOH, I have to admit that I'm only a very casual audacity user
<ScottK> We also do want to hear from ubuntu studio on the question.
<sistpoty> yep, let's wait a bit for further input
<siretart> yes, that would make most sense
<sistpoty> bdrung_: ok with that?
<siretart> bdrung_: do you still want 1.3.8 uploaded to experimental? I can see to do the upload tomorrow, if you are OK
<bdrung_> sistpoty: yes.
<sistpoty> bdrung_: thanks!
<bdrung_> siretart: having 1.3.8 in experimental would be good. i have to write a readme.debian and then it would be suitable.
<siretart> OK
<sistpoty> siretart: btw.: I'd have a pending upload of min12xxw on mentors should you have too much time *g*
<bdrung_> if someone is interested in the upstream response: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=4A8DE8C2.9010606%40gmail.com&forum_name=audacity-devel
<siretart> OK :)
<sistpoty> thanks!
<iulian> Hmm, it seems that the MOTU Release Charter hasn't been touched for some time now.  Are there any questions regarding the charter?
<iulian> I should probably mention it in the mail as well.
<ScottK> iulian: I don't think it needs mentioning.
<sistpoty> having reread the charter right now, it still looks good to me
<iulian> Thought it would be good, just as a reminder.
<sistpoty> anything else to discuss?
<ScottK> Well I think it was an interesting excercise, but doesn't have a lot of bearing on what we do/don't do.
<ScottK> Not from me.
<iulian> ScottK: OK.
<iulian> sistpoty: I'm good too.
<sistpoty> vorian: how about you?
<iulian> I'll write the mail tomorrow morning.  It's getting late here and I should be heading to bed now.
<iulian> Is there anything else I should mention in the mail?
<iulian> i.e. something we didn't discuss here?
<ScottK> Don't think so.
<iulian> OK.
<sistpoty> iulian: I guess we should also have a mail to ubuntu-devel-announce pointing to the FFe procedure and mentioning FF and stuff. Last time I coordinated this with slangasek
<iulian> sistpoty: I'm fine with it.  Please coordinate with slangasek.
<vorian> late no, sorry :)
<iulian> I'll send the minutes of this meeting to ubuntu-devel and -motu.
<sistpoty> ok, will do
<sistpoty> thanks a lot iulian!
<vorian> thanks iulian :)
<sistpoty> ok, then I guess the meeting is closed :)
<iulian> Thanks everyone!
 * iulian heads to bed.
<iulian> Good night.
<sistpoty> yeah, thanks everyone and good night iulian
 * sistpoty is off again, cya
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-25
<InDuS> hi i hope iam not gatecrashing
<InDuS> who can tell me how i can become an ubuntu member
<czajkowski> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<czajkowski> InDuS: either of those links should help you out
<InDuS> ok i did all that
<InDuS> so i was told to come here after those
<InDuS> i created my page etc
<InDuS> also, i promote foss in my country etc
<InDuS> that membership page says to apply in there ,but i cant find any links to do so
<GrueMaster> There is an ubuntu-mobile meeting scheduled to start in 6 minutes.  You can bring it up during that meeting, when it is time for new business.
<InDuS> ubuntu-mobile meeting? hmm whats that about?
<GrueMaster> Stick around and find out.
<InDuS> ok
<czajkowski> InDuS: please see pm or come into #ubuntu-locoteams
<lool> Hey all
<lool> NCommander: Around?
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> lool, yes, I'm just kinda noe feeling very good
<lool> dyfet, persia, paulliu, ogra, plars: ping
<plars> GrueMaster: I think he's talking general membership, not just mobile
 * plars is here
<ogra> poop
<lool> poop yourself!
<ogra> :)
<paulliu> lool, hi
 * GrueMaster props eyes open with toothpicks.
 * NCommander snores loadly
<NCommander> ok
<GrueMaster> loadly?
<StevenK> Apparently NCommander is loaded
<ogra> better than yodely
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090811?action=edit&editor=text
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090811?action=edit&editor=text
<lool> NCommander: I added a couple of entries to the roadmap which I'll explain when we get there
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090811
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090811
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> thanks
<plars> better
<plars> :)
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to investigate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/338148 (co)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338148 in vnc4 "Needs new version from Debian: fails to build with removal of mesa-swx11-source" [High,Triaged]
<NCommander> c/o yet again, this bug is up for grabs if anyone wants it
<lool> NCommander: What needs to happen so that you can make progress on it?
<lool> I think it's basically calling for a merge
<NCommander> lool, time, its not a trivial merge
<lool> Ok
<NCommander> lool, it requires sucking in the X11 headers, and it isn;'t very clear how it comes together
<NCommander> [topic] !GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<MootBot> New Topic:  !GrueMaster to retest on i386 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/337809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337809 in linux "APIC error on CPU 0" [Medium,Triaged]
<GrueMaster> This requires me setting up my CrownBeach again.  Very low priority (unless someone says otherwise).
 * NCommander wonders if we should just remove it from the list
<NCommander> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<lool> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~lool/mobile-status.html
<NCommander> Thank you lool
<ogra> outdated !
<NCommander> that too
<lool> ogra: Is it really?
<lool> ogra: Which spec?
 * NCommander had status changes last night ...
<ogra> both of mine i updated status this morning
<ogra> you should really run the update before the meeting
<NCommander> [topic] lool's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool's status
<ogra> outdated :P
<lool> ogra: Oh right, I'm still running the generation daily and pushing more frequently
<lool> Pushing an updated one
<lool> done
<ogra> thanks
<lool> NCommander: I think we wanted to ultimately drop per people status
<lool> Ok now we have this page with the status of each spec as reported by each owner
<ogra> hmm, it doesnt respect linewraps in the Status entry
<lool> The idea is that everybody opens it, takes a look and asks any question
 * ogra needs to take that into account
 * NCommander much perfered us just giving a quick status line each meeting but ok ...
<plars> I have a question about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-arm-cloud-builds
<lool> I actually started writing real code to my cloud builder, but it's not dong anything useful yet
<lool> Oh good timing
<plars> haha
<lool> plars: So I kept deferring work on it, but I really believe it's useful and I started architecting the source code and playing with boto code samples
<plars> lool: cool, so that answers my first question of "is this expected to happen this cycle?"
<lool> But it doesn't advance the spec significantly
<lool> I'll update it when I have a first pass to push
<lool> I expect the first thing will be creating a couple of vms and tracking their status in a local sqlite
<plars> lool: the spec says approved, but there are not valid work items on the whiteboard, so I was kinda confused by what kind of shape it was in
<lool> And start/stop basically
<lool> plars: Hmm good point I need to add valid work items to that one; I forgot about it when it got off the list of specs in error
<lool> plars: Thanks for pointing it out, I'll document them
<lool> Hmm nobody told me but the counts in the second column are wrong too
<lool> I need to fix my SQL
<ogra> i have one about softbootloader: i had a task to review the softbootloader spec, lool nicely reminded me of that today, i looked at it but the UDS discussion was never merged or taken into account it seems, there are external and team internal action items listed in the BOF discussion, what happens to them ?
<lool> ogra: I guess we list them all as work items and the spec owner is in charge of proding the other people to make progress on them
<ogra> quite late for that imho
<NCommander> ogra, the way we discussed at UDS, and what happened in reality went in two very separate directions. I need to rewrite the spec to match reality (or change reality to match UDS)
<ogra> right, thats clear, what wasnt clear to me were the four action items that even have personal assignments at the bottom of the BOF discussion
<lool> ogra: I hate the fact that this spec got deferred from jaunty and we actually would have benefited from it in a couple of cases already
<ogra> yes, indeed
<ogra> and i'm happy to research my action item, but it showed never up on my todo list
<lool> ogra: That said during the sprint I sat down with NCommander to document actual work items in the wb
<lool> I'm not sure you have one in that list
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to redraft softbootloader spec to make it match reality and clear up action item list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to redraft softbootloader spec to make it match reality and clear up action item list
<lool> NCommander: Thanks
<ogra> lool, because the spec was never updated with the discussion notes from last UDS
<lool> Are there other questions on the status of specs?  Everybody done digesting?
<NCommander> lool, are you going to be around in say an hour to help merge the d-cd code and stuff?
<GrueMaster> what's the scoop on mobile-karmic-moblin-remix?
<lool> NCommander: I have meetings all afternoon
<NCommander> lool, bugger
<lool> NCommander: I accepted the task on monday and will do it sometime this week
<NCommander> ogra, how about you?
<ogra> lool, did you talk to tbm ?
<lool> But I cant be bothered to do it right now
<lool> ogra: No
<NCommander> lool, right, I understand, I'd just like to nip this in the bud
<ogra> NCommander, thats only adding the two new files, right ?
<lool> People might remember me calling them the whole of yesterday too?   :)
<ogra> fine to merge that if it doesnt touch other code
<NCommander> ogra, two new files, and then a modification to make-web-indices to add the dove
<lool> Me being davidm's fallback means my number of meetings basically doubled
<ogra> wasnt that already there ?
<ogra> i'll look at it
<lool> ogra: The idea was of course to review the actual image creation script
<ogra> lool, indeed
<NCommander> ogra, very cool. I am expecting dove squashfs's to build (they almost built yesterday so ...)
<ogra> i took a glance on the weekend already
<ogra> build is in progress
<lool> NCommander: You actually pasted a meeting URL from Aug 11th at the beginning of the meeting instead of today's
<NCommander> I need to poke the kernel team though on the dove .config; I think initramfs support fell off
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090825 is the proper one
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090825 is the proper one
<NCommander> lool, >.<;
<NCommander> lool, sorry, I'm suffering from a massive migrane at the moment and the world kinda fuzzy
<lool> I'm removing the crap in the wiki page too
<lool> NCommander: Hmm why is there no entry to review roadmap stuff?
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<lool> I dumped a couple of things on this page, it looks ugly -- I know
<NCommander> lool, I thought we stopped using that
<lool> What I'd like us to do is to periodically check we didn't miss any desktop seeds updates
<lool> or aren't missing any UNR upstream release
<StevenK> I have been
<StevenK> I also do that
<lool> StevenK: Ok, so status is that we're all up-to-date and can close this topic?
<StevenK> lool: When my u-n-r-d-s gets uploaded, yes
<lool> StevenK: (I added these entries due to critics on missing desktop features in UNR; I expect it will disappear once we move this to the integration meeting)
<lool> StevenK: Ok, so just pending an u-n-r-d-s upload; thanks
<GrueMaster> Has gwibber been added to the seed yet?  How about removing xscreensaver-gl?
<StevenK> Yes, but it won't appear
<lool> GrueMaster: We're waiting for a new gwibber, 2.0, so that we can promote the new one to main
<StevenK> gwibber is in universe
<GrueMaster> ah
<GrueMaster> ETA?
<lool> StevenK: I'm fearing this might not make it before FF  :-/
<lool> GrueMaster: It's in the hands of Ken van Dine
<ogra> well, thats what we have an exception process for
<lool> I'd like us to take a glance at high importance bugs
<lool> Starting with UNR
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<lool> StevenK: 417001 is the one you're about to upload, right?
<StevenK> lool: Right
<StevenK> lool: I wasn't going to close it until FUSA is sorted out
<lool> StevenK: Isn't LP #410655 fixed with new clutk?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410655 in netbook-launcher "netbook-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in IA__g_type_check_instance_is_a()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410655
<ogra> new FUSA landed today btw
<lool> StevenK: Ok fair enough
<ogra> "indicator-session"
<StevenK> lool: Not sure, it looks like a different stacktrace
<lool> StevenK: Ok; can you make sure you track this with njpatel before A5?
<StevenK> Right
<lool> armel bugs next I guess
<lool> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-armel
<lool> ogra: How goes with 417009?
<lool> oo.o
<ogra> i didnt contact mterry yet ... we only discussed it last night
<lool> Ok
<ogra> will do so after them meeting assuming he is up now
<njpatel> lool: StevenK: I'm working on that...it's a bit strange
<lool> ogra: tomboy?  391124
<StevenK> njpatel: Ah, nice
<lool> njpatel: Thanks for the update; can you assign yourself to the bug?
<njpatel> will do
<ogra> well, seems like its deeper down in the mono stack and i'd really like to know what dyfet found
<ogra> since he said he dug deep into mono and found issues during his banshee research
<lool> ogra: It looks like dyfet isnt around though (probably sick); if you have spare cycles to chase this it might be clever to start on it
<lool> 391588 I'll skip since it's both non-critical and assignde to dyget
<lool> *dyfet
<ogra> well, someone from the mono team asked for another debug output today
<ogra> i added that
<lool> 383240 is mine; I suck, it's been assigned to me for weeks but I didn't find a large enough slot to just do it
<lool> 385325 is blocked on clarifying the plan with asac
<ogra> there is a plan for karmic ?
<GrueMaster> I'm surprised Bug #418265 didn't show up on the list.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418265 in linux "Warning in ehci-hcd.c:911 on kernel 2.6.31-5-imx51" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418265
<ogra> i thought we'd just update to new upstream
<ogra> 2.6.31-5-imx51"
<ogra> ?
<ogra> thats totally not buggable
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Is ubuntu-armel subscribed to the bug?
<ogra> close it as invalid and wait for a proper kernel
<GrueMaster> yes
<StevenK> GrueMaster: If the team isn't, thqat
 * StevenK sighs at this keyboard
<lool> GrueMaster: Only karmic targetted bugs show up there
<GrueMaster> ah
<ogra> well, but please ignore imx51 kernels that dont have a 100 in the ABI
<GrueMaster> This was on Friday's image.
<lool> GrueMaster: source package is linux-fsl-imx51, not linux
<ogra> everything before that is missing about 130 patches
<lool> targeted at karmic now
<ogra> lool, not for 2.6.31-5-imx51 ...
<lool> Sure enough it shows up on the list now
<ogra> there linux is right
<lool> GrueMaster: Can you please retest with latest kernel from linux-fsl-imx51?
<lool> Should have a >100 ABI
<ogra> marked as invalid
<GrueMaster> If it is in the latest image, sure.
<lool> GrueMaster: It is
<ogra> there are *no fsl patches at all* in 2.6.31-5-imx51 only one that enables the basics
<lool> ogra: I'd rather call it incomplete
<lool> anyway
<ogra> no
<lool> doesn't matter, needs retesting and can be reopened
<ogra> right
<lool> Next week is A5
<lool> [link] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
<lool> Specs targetted there are the toolchain one (will change just after A5)
<lool> Support for Ubuntu Desktop on Freescale SoCs ; should be ok
<lool> Support for Ubuntu Desktop on Marvell SoCs ; pending a debian-cd merge and I'd expect final fixes
<lool> NCommander: Do we have instructions in testing the marvell images?
<NCommander> lool, our kernel lacks initramfs support ATM (found that out last night), so even when we get images, they are unbootable out of the box
<lool> NCommander: Which bug is that?
<NCommander> lool, I'm filing one now, since I just confirmed that was the issue about 10 minutes ago
<lool> NCommander: This is critical to A5; please file + milestone + ping rtg + amitk + bjf
<lool> NCommander: Action on you to document testing instructions?
<lool> Since we dont have a custom uboot on the boards
<lool> GrueMaster: Determine if any default applications should be changed in UNR
<lool> GrueMaster: It looks like it's not going to make A5 given the number of open actions
<NCommander> [action] Document livecd bringup for the dove boards
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Document livecd bringup for the dove boards
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to ocument livecd bringup for the dove boards
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to ocument livecd bringup for the dove boards
<lool> GrueMaster: The only item there for you is the CD image size work
<lool> GrueMaster: But I think it would be good if you'd personally chase people to implement the actions
<lool> aka nag  :)
<StevenK> Which I'm still waiting on
<GrueMaster> I can't really do that until the other two items are done.
<lool> GrueMaster: We all know you're good at nagging us  :)
<GrueMaster> Ok then.  StevenK, NAG - get on removing the xscreensaver-gl and other items on your TODO list.
<ogra> rss-glx too
<lool> StevenK: You have action to drop xscreensaver stuff from the seed and to add gwibber to maximus blacklist; do you think you could do that this week?
<GrueMaster> Is there any reason not to seed gwibber before 2.0?
<ogra> thats way bigger iirc
<StevenK> It is seeded!
<lool> GrueMaster: Yes, that requires main promotion of stuff which we're not going to need
<lool> so useless work  :-/
<StevenK> It's in the seed list, but germinate won't check universe
<StevenK> So there's no point asking me twice to seed it
<lool> Well ok, it's in the seed text but not in the task
<lool> What we need is promoting it to main when 2.0 comes out
<lool> StevenK: Do we want a new action to do that in the work items?
<StevenK> Yeah
<StevenK> I'd like a pointer to the spec, too
<lool> StevenK: added
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-mvl-dove/+bug/418618
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418618 in linux-mvl-dove "dove kernel lacks support for initramfs" [Critical,New]
<lool> StevenK: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-unr-karmic-applications
<GrueMaster> Since the size reduction work won't involve desktop application removal, but mostly back-end stuff, it can wait until gwibber 2.0 is on board.
<lool> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-unr-karmic-applications even
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-unr-karmic-applications even
<lool> GrueMaster: I dont understand why it should wait?
<lool> GrueMaster: we want to start getting the ISO size down before we add more stuff to it IMO
<lool> It's already too large and we plan adding gwibber
<lool> That calls for making room now for the oversize + gwibber's size
<GrueMaster> So that I know what my goal for size reduction is.  Otherwise I may need to do that work twice.
<StevenK> Size reduction may be ongoing
<StevenK> It certainly is for the desktop
<lool> GrueMaster: You want to get below 700 MB to start with and preferably way more; all space saved allows for more langpacks
<GrueMaster> ok
<StevenK> So don't count on only doing it once, things change
<lool> GrueMaster: If you dont know where to start, slangasek has been taking care of ISO size of the desktop
<lool> and others
<GrueMaster> ok
<lool> GrueMaster: So it might have good advice on where to start looking
<lool> s/it/he
<GrueMaster> I figure I'd start by diffing the manifests.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> calling slangasek an "it" is rude :P
<lool> Ok any other things to discuss on A5 tasks?
<lool> blueprints or bugs
<lool> ogra: Yes; typoi  :-(
<ogra> indeed
<lool> I guess we're done
<lool> NCommander: Any other topic for today?
<NCommander> [topic] Any other business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
<NCommander> three times
<lool> I'd like to ask for feedback
<lool> Are people okay with the meeting changes?
<lool> As experienced today
<StevenK> My internal jury is still out
<ogra> and i'd like everyone who finds some spare time to regularyx look at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<NCommander> I personally perfer going around individually and asking status, then have the open discussion
<GrueMaster> Well, we're done quicker.
<NCommander> GrueMaster, not really
<lool> ogra: We could review this if there was an associated timestamp with the FTBFSes
<plars> well, we didn't go over, and we're not close to it
<ogra> there is still a lot armel stuff that can be fixed ...
<lool> ogra: Currently the list doesn't show the recent versus old ones
<ogra> lool, well, its always the latest upload
<ogra> only pointing to the FTBFS logs
<NCommander> ogra, it doesn't show packages that FTBFS in jaunty that haven't had a karmic upload
<lool> ogra: No, I mean we want to look at the recent FTBFS, not all of them, during weekly meetings
<lool> NCommander: I think it was quicker to do things the way we did and carries the same information
<ogra> well, that would require to intersect -changes with the versions showing up there
<lool> Except people can a) do it before the meeting and b) people can do it async
<NCommander> lool, *shrug*
<NCommander> Anyone got anything else?
<NCommander> I'd like to close the meeting
 * ogra likes the new meeting form btw
<lool> ogra: No; just keeping track of when the FTBFS was added to this page
<ogra> though it requires that you prepare indeed
<NCommander> If there's nothing else
<NCommander> Going once
<lool> I guess we're done
<StevenK> And re-run the generation script :-P
<NCommander> twice
<ogra> StevenK, ++
<lool> StevenK: I switched to @hourly already now
<NCommander> three times
<NCommander> StevenK, ++ :-)
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> everyone have a good $TIME
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:49.
<paulliu> GrueMaster: Just as same as the Juanty Moblin.
<GrueMaster> ?
<cjwatson> mdz,Keybuk: TB now?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: if you like ;)
<Keybuk> you're the chair I believe
<mdz> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> I do hope not, I chaired last time
<cjwatson> we said we'd decide the chair by e-mail and then I think forgot to do so
<cjwatson> by rotation I make it Keybuk's turn
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Per-package uploader application: Yulia Novozhilova (MC mail)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Per-package uploader application: Yulia Novozhilova (MC mail)
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-August/002183.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-August/002183.html
<mdz> any actions to review from last time?
<cjwatson> there were several
<cjwatson> Keybuk: do you have them conveniently available?
<cjwatson> (I do, I think)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: err, I don't think so
<mdz> oh, dholbach said t hat Yulia had to leave early, so we should do that first
<cjwatson> oh, ok
<mdz> ignore me
<cjwatson> /ignore mdz
<juli_> hi, I'm Yulia:)
<cjwatson> (maybe not)
<Keybuk> cjwatson: really? I have to unignore him for these meetings <g>
<Keybuk> juli_: hi!  was just trying to find your IRC nickname
<Keybuk> welcome
<juli_> I do really have to leave early
<mdz> the packages involved are:
<mdz> # netbeans
<mdz> # libnb-platform-java
<mdz> # libnb-javaparser-java
<mdz> # libnb-svnclientadapter-java
<mdz> all of these packages are in universe, and the MOTU Council approves
<Keybuk> juli_: it looks like you've been the defacto maintainer of these packages for a while now
<juli_> Keybuk, yes.. i'm working on them more than a year
<Keybuk> in fact, I believe you created a couple of these?
<juli_> hmm... no. I updated them. but I created another:)
<Keybuk> juli_: who've you been working with to upload these packages?
<Keybuk> juli_: has anybody else been helping you out with them?
<juli_> parsia helped a lot
<mdz> (persia?)
<juli_> the other sponsored my updates
<juli_> Emmet Hikory
<cjwatson> juli_: various people, including you, commented on the small number of people involved in Java packaging, and this has been a problem for some time. How do you think we could improve this? For example, are there ways that the "grunt work" of the packaging could be simplified to make it easier for people to focus on more significant improvements?
<cjwatson> or is it just a fundamental mindset difference, that most of the people who develop in Java don't do so by way of system-provided packages?
<juli_> for me the biggest problem was to find sponsors and to read and remember a huge amount of information about packaging and ubuntu processes
<cjwatson> (FWIW I don't see any problem with this application but figured you might have some thoughts on this while you're here; we could take the discussion to a different forum later if you're really rushed)
<juli_> so I believe if we have more java-experienced MOTUs everything will be ok with java-team
<cjwatson> mm, it doesn't help when people have to load state about a whole different environment into their heads in order to sponsor
<Keybuk> mdz: any questions ?
<mdz> Keybuk: none
<Keybuk> cjwatson: any further questions?
<juli_> cjwatson, ok, lets talk later about java-team... another problem is my slow typing, so I believe we'll talk later if you don't mind
<Keybuk> -ETIMEOUT ;)
<Keybuk> [VOTE] Per-package uploader application: Yulia Novozhilova
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Per-package uploader application: Yulia Novozhilova.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<mdz> +1 MOTU council approval for universe is plenty for me
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> cjwatson: ?
<Keybuk> sabdfl: ?
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Keybuk> #endvote
<mdz> [ENDVOTE]
<Keybuk> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<cjwatson> sorry, was in another window, my browser crashed at an inopportune time
<Keybuk> #hatemootbot
<cjwatson> juli_: yes, no problem :)
<dholbach> congratulations juli_!
<Keybuk> juli_: congratulations
<cjwatson> I'll implement the changes
<Keybuk> mdz, cjwatson: which one of you wants to do the necessary LP twiddle?
<sabdfl> congrats juli_
<mdz> juli_: thanks for your work, and congratulations
<Keybuk> ok great
<mdz> Keybuk: cjwatson will
<juli_> cjwatson, I'll find you on ubuntu-motu
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to add per-package upload rights for juli_
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to add per-package upload rights for juli_
<juli_> thanks all!
<cjwatson> juli_: ay
<cjwatson> aye
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Per-package uploader application: Andy Whitcroft
<MootBot> New Topic:  Per-package uploader application: Andy Whitcroft
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-August/002184.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-August/002184.html
<Keybuk> apw warned me that he might not be able to make it today
<Keybuk> does anybody have any questions they'd like to ask, or would TB members be happy to approve in his absence based on the MC mail?
<dholbach> yeah, he's on holidays - sorry for that
<mdz> reading
<Keybuk> I'd obviously like to talk to rtg, to make sure he's not being suspiciously stalked by buses
<mdz> I think apw has more experience with packaging at this point than rtg does
<Keybuk> but from my POV, the kernel team members and lead have fully endorsed him, and post-reorg it would be their decision anyway, so I'm happy to simply ACK it
<Keybuk> plus, hell, it's apw!  He makes kernel images for me with random patches I chuck him!
<cjwatson> I'm obviously content since I put my rubber stamp on his proposal page already; in particular I'm pleased to see that, while he may not be a pre-existing packaging expert, he's really got his teeth into that in addition to the normal kernel work he does
<sabdfl> are we drawing a line between "folks who commit to the kernel branches" and "folks who upload"?
<cjwatson> the automatic daily builds are another cool thing
<sabdfl> afaik apw has no other packaging experience
<cjwatson> sabdfl: he already commits
<mdz> I'm a bit concerned because I think there is a shortage of packaging expertise in the kernel team, so I'm glad to see Andy stepping up and doing the work that he has done
<sabdfl> sure, all the kernel team do
<cjwatson> he doesn't, but I've reviewed the packaging changes he's made and they have been very good
<sabdfl> i'm asking if we want to separate between branch commit and upload
<Keybuk> sabdfl: yes, there's a large number of other people who commit - but in apw's cases, he's the guy who's largely doing the packaging anyway
<sabdfl> cjwatson: and you're referring to the packaging pieces specifically?
<sabdfl> ok
<cjwatson> yes
<cjwatson> they're the only bits of his kernel work I'm qualified to review :)
<Keybuk> sounds like we're happy to vote in his absence
<Keybuk> so
<cjwatson> I think we *do* want to separate between branch commit and upload, yes
<Keybuk> [VOTE] Per-package uploader application: Andy Whitcroft
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Per-package uploader application: Andy Whitcroft.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> I think that Andy should be on the RHS of that separation
<Keybuk> (putting aside the archive-reorg issue of distinguishing between branch commit and upload for a bit)
<Keybuk> +1 from me
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<sabdfl> ok. i'm happier if we can show that not all kernel committers have upload, and more importantly, employment on the canonical kernel team doesn't == kernel package upload
<mdz> yes, reading the changes, apw has been doing a substantial amount of proper packaging work on the kernel package
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> sabdfl: right, it most certainly doesn't - we can see that because it's taken quite a bit of work for each new Canonical kernel team member to get as far as upload privileges for the kernel
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Keybuk> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<Keybuk> apw: congratulations
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to add upload privilege for apw
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to add upload privilege for apw
<cjwatson> underway
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<cjwatson> (will migrate this over to a kernel package set as soon as I can, it's a little unwieldy ...)
<Keybuk> jono has outstanding actions but is on holiday
<Keybuk> cjwatson: you were to update http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
<Keybuk> is that done?
<cjwatson> it has received basic updates to at least correct falsehoods
<cjwatson> it still needs more work, I'm quite sure
<Keybuk> ok
<mdz> jono proposed a paragraph to add
<mdz> which I sent feedback on
<Keybuk> mdz: he did, we'll carry those over though since he's away
<mdz> I didn't see any other responses, though; it probably needs a general ack from the team
<Keybuk> cjwatson: any progress with the Debian TC?
<cjwatson> hang on a second, sorry
<cjwatson> I also sent mail to technical-board@ with a proposal for new text for that page as a whole
<cjwatson> mdz made a brief comment on that
<cjwatson> I am going to assume consent otherwise and post it
<cjwatson> shout if you disagree :)
<sabdfl> +1 from me
<mdz> I'm happy
<Keybuk> go for it
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to apply further updates to http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard based on his draft new text
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to apply further updates to http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard based on his draft new text
<cjwatson> Debian TC is awaiting response from somebody on the TC
<cjwatson> my last mail was 11 Aug
<mdz> worth a ping
<cjwatson> I'll send a poke
<Keybuk> [ACTION] TB to respond to Jono's draft text on key topics review
<MootBot> ACTION received:  TB to respond to Jono's draft text on key topics review
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to continue discussions with Debian TC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to continue discussions with Debian TC
<Keybuk> sabdfl has created and announced the TB vote, which is currently in process
<Keybuk> sabdfl: do we have any kind of figures of the portion of the developer community who have taken part so far? (just out of noseyness)
<sabdfl> 78 votes cast so far, only 2 in the past few days
<cjwatson> has everyone on this board voted? :-)
<sabdfl> i can't see results yet though ;-)
<sabdfl> i have
<Keybuk> sabdfl: that's about a third of our developer base, right?
<Keybuk> oh, no
<sabdfl> out of 130
<Keybuk> LP was confusing me
<Keybuk> that's almost two thirds; which isn't bad turnout for any election
<sabdfl> no, it's pretty good. only one person complained that the email they received wasn't gpg signed!
<mdz> I voted; have the rest of you?
<Keybuk> I've voted
<cjwatson> I have
<cjwatson> (I'm one of the 2 in the past few days)
<mdz> should we send out a reminder  before we close it up?
<cjwatson> if it's possible to send a reminder to those electors who have not voted, that would be good
<Keybuk> I guess we can't tell that
<Keybuk> sabdfl: ?
<cjwatson> I was hoping that civs might have that facility built in
<sabdfl> i don't believe so
<sabdfl> there's only one button on the admin form, to end the poll
<Keybuk> sounds like more effort than it's worth ;)
<mdz> let's not spam everyone then
<sabdfl> i could re-add all the same email addresses, but would prefer not to experiment with it in real time
<sabdfl> 78 is a good result
<Keybuk> we could always mail civs to see if it's a feature they could add in future if we plan to use it again
<sabdfl> i'll stop the poll Monday
<Keybuk> [ACTION] jdstrand to add a reference to the previously-approved mDNS policy (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZeroConfPolicySpec)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jdstrand to add a reference to the previously-approved mDNS policy (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZeroConfPolicySpec)
<Keybuk> jdstrand: that's not been done yet
<cjwatson> [upload privilege changes done]
<jdstrand> Keybuk: I added it somewhere...
 * jdstrand goes to check
<Keybuk> oh, you're quite right
<Keybuk> apparently I had a cached version of that page - logging in gave me a different one
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> end of last meeting's actions
<Keybuk> [TOPIC]
<MootBot> New Topic:
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Developer membership board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Developer membership board (ScottJamesRemnant)
<Keybuk> I've created the Launchpad team, with the appropriate membership
<Keybuk> and I've adjusted the ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-dev teams
<Keybuk> this is currently waiting on IS for creation of a new mailing list, and adjustment of the TB list
<Keybuk> as a technical aside, the TB list will actually be renamed and a new TB list created
<Keybuk> (to keep the current archives private while opening up the new ones)
<Keybuk> then there are documentation updates outstanding
<Keybuk> I'm confident that this board will be "ready to go" by the next TB meeting
<mdz> do you have the RT ticket numbers handy?
<mdz> cjwatson can nudge them in the next IS review
<Keybuk> #35428 TB ML
<Keybuk> #35429 DMB ML
<Keybuk> James has already responded to the TB one
<Keybuk> [ACTION] Keybuk to complete implementation of Developer Membership Board
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Keybuk to complete implementation of Developer Membership Board
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Archive reorganisation (ColinWatson)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive reorganisation (ColinWatson)
<cjwatson> the majority of MOTUs have responded to the initial feelers we sent out now
<cjwatson> I had a private bet with myself that most people would want to be generalists, and this seems to have turned out to be fairly accurate
<cjwatson> so the developer membership board will have a good deal of work to do :-)
<Keybuk> what's the next step?
<mdz> cjwatson: ?
<mdz> dholbach: ?
<cjwatson> I'll do a final check with the Soyuz team on the details, and start pushing initial sets into LP; on the community side the next step is to start talking with the -release teams about unifying processes there
<mdz> cjwatson: can we set a milestone to achieve by the next TB meeting?
<Keybuk> I'm going to have to time this out
<Keybuk> we still have several items to get through
<mdz> agreed
<cjwatson> let's shoot for the set of uploads that have already been approved being processed by Soyuz according to package set rules
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Check up on community bugs (standing item)
<Keybuk> There are currently no open bugs.
<cjwatson> (sorry, was having an internal phrasing failure)
<mdz> zarro boogs found
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bugs?field.assignee=techboard
<mdz> moving on
<Keybuk> indeed
<mdz> or...are we interested in filing bugs here to keep track of anything for ourselves?
<mdz> I think using the agenda is working reasonably well
<Keybuk> going to swap the next two items since one is short the other isn't
<cjwatson> I have enough bugs
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Drivers for Ubuntu (MattZimmerman, Curtis Hovey)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Drivers for Ubuntu (MattZimmerman, Curtis Hovey)
 * Keybuk can't even view his LP bugs page without a timeout error
<Keybuk> mdz: what's the progress of that?
<sabdfl> curtis?
<mdz> so, we now have what I hope is an authoritative explanation from the LP team about what drivers can currently do
<sabdfl> ah
<mdz> they are now looking for us to tell them what drivers *should* be able to do
<mdz> there is a driver slot at the distro level and at the series level
<Keybuk> I guess we should find out from our various teams (QA, Release, etc.) what functions they think should be sacred?
<mdz> in <20090625132529.GY7135@alcor.net> I explained who (in Ubuntu) is responsible for the various actions drivers currently can do
<Keybuk> we could make some up, but it might not match what they want
<mdz> and would like to separate some of those out
<Keybuk> mdz: what do you think the next step is?
<mdz> e.g. sprint stuff is done by the event organizers, blueprint stuff is done by tech leads and the like
<mdz> bug nominations are a problem all to themselves
<mdz> Keybuk: to get consensus on how the permissions for these various things should work in Ubuntu
<Keybuk> mdz: consensus amongst whom?
<mdz> >  * Bug nominations
<mdz> >  * Blueprint approvals
<mdz> >  * Can edit all aspects of a specification
<mdz> >  * Accepting blueprints for sprints
<mdz> >  * Control the agenda of a sprint
<mdz> >  * The ability to set package bug guidelines.
<mdz> >  * The ability to set official bug tags.
<mdz> >  * Can view and edit announcements before they are public
<cjwatson> to be perfectly honest, splitting out blueprint permissions and then letting people with upload privileges for the relevant packages (or core developers for the whole distro) do everything else would basically work fine most of the time
<mdz> and the ability to change arbitrary bug contacts on behalf of other people/teams
<Keybuk> it seems that that consensus should be amongst the teams who would be given those powers
<Keybuk> not amongst the TB members?
<cjwatson> blueprint permissions are the main sore thumb here
<sabdfl> the drivers idea was to have a simple model that would work for upstreams and ubuntu
<sabdfl> but it didn't ;-)
<mdz> Keybuk: I think we should take a view, and then make sure it's OK with everyone else
<sabdfl> if you can think of a better, general approach that LP can take, that will be well received
<Keybuk> mdz: ok, would you be happy to draft that view as a mail, and take this to the list
<cjwatson> it worked for Ubuntu early on, but the project is just too complex now
<mdz> OK
<sabdfl> i don't think it will be well received to describe something that's *only* relevant to the distro
<Keybuk> we have 8 minutes left and a community member waiting to discuss their topic
<mdz> in the interest of time
<sabdfl> except as a datapoint
<mdz> Keybuk: I'll take the action
<cjwatson> can I suggest, then, simply splitting up feature planning and everything else?
<Keybuk> [ACTION] mdz to draft proposed ubuntu drivers scheme for consensus
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to draft proposed ubuntu drivers scheme for consensus
<mdz> cjwatson: do you want to draft it instead? ;-)
<cjwatson> if you like
<Keybuk> [ACTION] cjwatson to draft proposed ubuntu drivers scheme for consensus
<Keybuk> ;-)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to draft proposed ubuntu drivers scheme for consensus
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Base-2 prefix names (BenjaminDrung)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Base-2 prefix names (BenjaminDrung)
<Keybuk> bdrung: go
<cjwatson> cjwatson to be plastic mdz substitute
<mdz> cjwatson: I'll dig up the old mail and add my comments as a starting point
<mdz> cjwatson: thank you
<cjwatson> I have the thread, at least
<Keybuk> cjwatson: "Emergency Holographic...", err, wait, wasn't _his_ name Zimmerman? :p
<bdrung> starting point: http://paste.ubuntu.com/259296/
<Keybuk> for those without the background, this is the long-running discussion about the use of units in Ubuntu
<Keybuk> whether 1KB (kilobyte) is 1,024 bytes or 1,000 bytes, or whether it should be 1KiB (kebibyte)
<Keybuk> we should first probably agree whether it is something we would like to have a policy on
<mdz> (kibibyte, no?)
<Keybuk> and if we agree that we should, what that policy would be
<Keybuk> mdz: err, perhaps ;)
<bdrung> the problem is how to fix the missusage of the SI standard for base-2 units ( 1 MB != 1024 KiB)
<cjwatson> while personally I have aesthetic objections to the IEC abbreviation, it's been gaining considerable acceptance and I can't say I feel like swimming upstream against it
<cjwatson> so better that than a total mess
<sabdfl> if there's a standard and it's gaining momentum, let's use it
<cjwatson> I think it's an issue of interoperability of user presentation, and thus worth having a policy on
<Keybuk> sabdfl: the problem is that the standard isn't gaining momentum where it matters
<sabdfl> especially if google will tell people what it means, accurately, quickly
<mdz> I think there is real value in having the abbreviation mean something consistent
<Keybuk> ie. in the devices people actually buy
<cjwatson> sabdfl: right, but that's not the whole proposal :)
<Keybuk> and, more to the point
<Keybuk> there are *two* standards ;-)
<cjwatson> we already know we can't use IEC abbreviations everywhere
<bdrung> in some cases it would useful that the user could decide, if he wants IEC or SI
<Keybuk> (in fact, there's arguably three if you could the O'Reilly Style Guide)
<Keybuk> bdrung: ugh.  configuration.
<Keybuk> ;)
<cjwatson> file sizes (in the proposal) are an interesting point I really hadn't thought much about before, and it could easily go either way depending on the use case, so I do not think that the time is ripe for us to have a policy on it
<mdz> one of the key questions, I think, is *where* we try to standardize
<cjwatson> let's standardise where the general drift is already towards something standard
<bdrung> i do not think, that all people agree on one basis for file sizes
<mdz> some of the friction seems to be around established UNIXy tools, which double as end user tools and APIs
<mdz> I think that change there may be more trouble than it's worth
<cjwatson> and not try to standardise where there is total chaos and (perhaps more relevantly) where it isn't really of immediate importance
<mdz> user-visible applications are a different story perhaps
<sabdfl> this is much simpler if we say "we use that standard", propose Debian do the same, and file bugs accordingly
<sabdfl> inevitably, those bugs will get fixed faster in the areas cjwatson describes
<Keybuk> sabdfl: the problem is that if we, for example, say we'll always use the IEC standard
<cjwatson> it is wrong to apply the same standard to everything, here
<cjwatson> totally wrong
<Keybuk> then we end up in the strange situation where we report different values for a user's DSL line speed than the ISP
<Keybuk> (who use the SI standard)
<cjwatson> we can apply one standard to RAM, and one standard to disk sizes
<Keybuk> cjwatson: but then swap partitions? :p
<mdz> sabdfl: except it's not simple, because a blanket policy runs into all sorts of places where I think there's no tangible benefit in doing so, and a lot of potential pain
<cjwatson> but if we apply the same standard to both then we will create confusion, not address is
<cjwatson> it
<sabdfl> but then we have to decide in each of those cases, which takes time, and communicate changes in those decisions over time, which is a nightmare
<cjwatson> yes, we do, and yes it's a nightmare. the alternative is even worse.
<mdz> (we're running over into the server team's hour now)
<sabdfl> the KB nomenclature is non-specific, fuzzy. The IEC stuff, while ugly, is at least accurate
<Keybuk> indeed
<cjwatson> fortunately there aren't actually that many general cases at hand
<sabdfl> aiui
<cjwatson> the IEC stuff is *wrong* for disks.
<sabdfl> so, if people google it, they will be told "this is what it..". oh.
<cjwatson> until such time as disk manufacturers get a clue :-)
<Keybuk> sabdfl: KB isn't correct anyway - SI is kB (just a random observation)
<Keybuk> KB for 1,024 bytes *is* O'Reilly Style Guide compliant though
<Keybuk> (which says KB=1,024, kB=1,000)
<sabdfl> sigh. i was not born for this discussion. i abstain.
<Keybuk> :D
<Keybuk> ok, it sounds like we agree that this is a mess :-)
<sabdfl> well. actually, i vote for IEC everywhere
<sabdfl> but i won't argue the point, just vote
<ball> K has been 1,024 at least since the 1960s
<ball> ...probably the 1950s
<ball> (see old DEC manuals for instance)
<bdrung> but KB for 1,024 bytes is not SI
<cjwatson> gparted does that for disks and people are confused that it gives a different number than what it says on the box they got their disk drive in
<mdz> KB and KiB are both valid and mean different (increasingly standard) things
<ball> bdrung: no, but it's not incompatible with SI.
<mdz> there are circumstances where each is valid
<mdz> s/valid/appropriate/
<ball> k = 1000, K = 1024
<ball> job done.
<ball> (unless Kelvin, but obviously not applicable to disk drives, RAM etc.)
<cjwatson> perhaps unfortunately, that is not the way the rest of the world is going
<ewook> agreed.
<Keybuk> I suggest that the appropriate way to deal with this is to first agree whether we *should* have a policy on this
<mdz> this is the umpteenth time it has come up, so I think we do need one
<Keybuk> and if we agree we should, we should follow cjwatson's debate suggestion of having people draft competing policies and arguments
<Keybuk> ok, let's vote on that
<cjwatson> we should have a policy, but it should be nuanced
<mdz> cjwatson++
<Keybuk> [VOTE] SHOULD we have a policy on use of unit multiples?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  SHOULD we have a policy on use of unit multiples?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<mdz> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Keybuk> +1 we should have a policy
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Keybuk> sabdfl ?
<gnuyoga> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from gnuyoga. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<sabdfl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sabdfl. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Keybuk> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<Keybuk> ok
 * ball doesn't even know what meeting he's in ;-)
<mdz> ball: Ubuntu Technical Board
<bdrung> where to put the policy draft?
<Keybuk> then I suggest the initiative should be bdrung's as the proposer
<mdz> bdrung: wiki
<sabdfl> has debian made a serious effort to standardise or set a policy?
<Keybuk> bdrung would you be happy to draft a policy (in wording similar to patent policy, etc.) and propose it to the TB
<cjwatson> ultimately a ratified draft could go into the Ubuntu policy manual
<cjwatson> sabdfl: I think it's been bikeshedded, but I don't recall a serious effort to standardise
<Keybuk> and then if anybody else has a proposed alternate policy, we can discuss from there?
<bdrung> mdz: which location directly?
<mdz> bdrung: your choice
<bdrung> suggestions?
<bdrung> names which avoids bikeshedds?
<cjwatson> there have been some discussions related to it, e.g. http://bugs.debian.org/534408
<Keybuk> bdrung: wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftUnitsPolicy ?
<Keybuk> or /UnitsPolicy
<bdrung> sounds good
<ball> mdz: thanks.  I wouldn't have interrupted but that's a pet peeve of mine.
<Keybuk> [ACTION] bdrung to draft initial units policy for discussion
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdrung to draft initial units policy for discussion
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  chair for next meeting
<Keybuk> we can't decide a chair without knowing who's in the TB for the next meeting
<Keybuk> unless it's cjwatson?
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:06.
<Keybuk> timeout again
<sabdfl> thanks all
<cjwatson> (FWIW I can find no other relevant discussion on debian-policy that includes the word "kibibyte", so I think #534408 is the only thing close)
<Keybuk> sorry server team
<Daviey> :)
<jmdault> =)
<mathiaz> allright - let's get the server team meeting started
<Sam-I-Am> morning
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> mathiaz: I have a couple of agenda items if there is time
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<soren> o/
<mathiaz> mdz: I'll try to leave some time for an open discussions
<mathiaz> last week's minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090818
<ttx> o/
<Daviey> \o
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Asterisk
<MootBot> New Topic:  Asterisk
<ivoks> o/
<mathiaz> jmdault: what's the state of the stack?
<jmdault> mathiaz: pwlib and openh323 have the right versions in karmic since friday
<mathiaz> jmdault: next in line are dahdi and astreisk* ?
<Daviey> suprisingly, openh323 has been in a build dep wait since April, and was satisified with pwlib upload therefore automagically building.
<jmdault> mathiaz: the Debian Asterisk package has been imported in karmic
<jmdault> I've built packages in my PPA
<mathiaz> jmdault: great - what's left then?
<jmdault> Now all that's left is for someone to review my packages and upload them
<Daviey> Hmm
<Daviey> There is the dahdi-dkms issue.
<jmdault> I sent the dkms patch to debian-voip maintainers
<Daviey> Debian isn't carrying dkms for dahdi.. so if we upload that now, it's a ubuntu specific change
<Daviey> jmdault: great, they were waiting for it.  Would be great to hear of their feedback, was it on the ML?
<Daviey> thier*
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - do you have sponsors?
<jmdault> hopefully someone will have a look at it between all the spam that's on the list =(
<mathiaz> jmdault: where are the packages that needs to be reviewed?
<Daviey> jmdault: hah, just seen the email arrive in my Inbox :)
<jmdault> mathiaz: https://launchpad.net/~jmdault/+archive/ppa
<jmdault> I also put everything in bzr for easy diffs
<jmdault> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-voip/+junk/asterisk-1.6
<mathiaz> jmdault: ok - thanks for working on that
<jmdault> I was expecting stgraber to sponsor me, unfortunately he's overloaded this week
<mathiaz> jmdault: next step is to find sponsors for the remaining packages in https://launchpad.net/~jmdault/+archive/ppa
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<jmdault> I updated the wiki page
<mathiaz> jmdault: which one?
<jmdault> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
<Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsteriskIntegration
<jmdault> =)
<jmdault> Now, how can I find a sponsor?
<mathiaz> jmdault: send an email to ubuntu-motu@
<mathiaz> jmdault: ask in #ubuntu-motu
<mathiaz> jmdault: blog about it
<jmdault> ok
<mathiaz> jmdault: however we're before FF so everyone is very busy
<jmdault> yes, I know =(
<mathiaz> anything else before we move on?
<jmdault> nope
<mathiaz> great
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update Ebox to 1.3
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update Ebox to 1.3
<mathiaz> foolano: ^^?
<ttx> zul says: "Ebox 1.3 in universe is done"
<mathiaz> great. let's move on.
<mathiaz> That's all I had from last week minutes.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU weekly review
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU weekly review
<ttx> yay
<mathiaz> Review nominated list and last week fix released bugs to either accept them or mark them won't fix
<Daviey> quite an easy review :)
<mathiaz> http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> anything SRU worthy on this list^^ ?
<ttx> I don't have any favorite there.
<ivoks> well, if apache segfaults with mod_deflate...
<Daviey> bug 409987 needs watching
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 409987 in apache2 "apache2 segfault using mod_deflate" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409987
<ivoks> i'm using mod_deflate and haven't seen segfault in hardy
<jmdault> +1 for 409987
<ttx> doesn't http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/USN-802-2 cover those ?
<Daviey> Bug #406303
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 406303 in php5 "Compiled zip support in PHP 5.2.4 64bit can't open archives with large number of files." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406303
<Daviey>  ^^ seems to be in hand already
<mathiaz> right - its seems that it's a security related regression so the security team should be following up
<Daviey> ttx: The comments suggest no.
<ivoks> ttx: it should
<ttx> Daviey: at this point the bug is considered fixed... and in every release
<ivoks> should be tested
<ivoks> since we have a user that claims it's not fixed
<ttx> I'm pretty sure security tested it
<mathiaz> I think mdeslaur is on it.
<ivoks> right
<ttx> anyway, either the bug is fixed or not fixed. If it's not fixed yet, then it's not a SRU candidate anyway
<Daviey> i'm not sure we can have additional influence at this stage.
<mathiaz> how about bug 406303?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 406303 in php5 "Compiled zip support in PHP 5.2.4 64bit can't open archives with large number of files." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406303
<Daviey> mathiaz: seems to be in hand with Chuck Short.
<ttx> mathiaz: accepted already
<mathiaz> oh ok.
<mathiaz> anything else from the list?
<ttx> no.
<Daviey> not here.
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on to the next list:
<mathiaz> http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-dappernominated.notlong.com/
<mathiaz> anything worth accepting?
<ttx> most of them are nominated by someone named "Mathias Gug".
<mdz> sounds suspicious
<ttx> I'd accept all of them. Except maybe 164007 which shoudl be handled (or is handled) by security
<mathiaz> ttx: sounds good. are you doing it?
<mathiaz> ttx: net-snmp seems security related
<mathiaz> bug 164007
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 164007 in net-snmp "[net-snmp] remote Denial of Service vulnerability" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164007
<ttx> yes, I don't really know what we should do with those. Leave them alone ?
<jdstrand> that should be fixed in http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-564-1
<ttx> jamie to the rescue
<mathiaz> jdstrand: for all previous releases?
<jdstrand> dapper through gutsy
<Daviey> \o/
<jdstrand> look at that, I even prepared it :)
<mathiaz> jdstrand: so not relevant for hardy+?
<ttx> ok, accepting them and fix-releasing the security one
<jdstrand> 5.4.1 has the fix
<jdstrand> 5.4.1~dfsg-4ubuntu4 has released in hardy (not affected)
<mathiaz> great - nothing left from dapper
<mathiaz> let's move on to hardy
<jdstrand> s/has/was/
<mathiaz> http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-hardynominated.notlong.com/
<ttx> I'm unsure about those two hardy ones. Are those features, or bugs ?
<ttx> If PHP doesn't count correctly, I wouldn't "fix" it in a SRU.
<mathiaz> right - decline
<ttx> the DDNS thing is a feature, but counts as a bug if "doing as in Windows" is the right behavior
<mathiaz> as the potential for regression in existing code is high
<mathiaz> does thing badly break if DDNS is not done?
<jdstrand> ttx: I'll take care of the net-snmp bug. I didn't notice it before now and should have closed it with the USN
<ttx> jdstrand: ok
<mathiaz> ttx: does thing badly break if DDNS is not done?
<ttx> mathiaz: no. It's just that the newly-joined workstation needs to be manually added into Windows DNS
<ttx> while Windows workstations do that automatically
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - I'd decline
<ttx> ok
<ttx> declining both, next
<mathiaz> nothing left for hardy - let's move on to intrepid
<mathiaz> http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-intrepidnominated.notlong.com/
<ttx> All those are valid. Though I wouldn't spend too much time fixing Intrepid now.
<ttx> But since we should accept them if they are valid, rather than if we want to do them...
<mathiaz> ttx: right.
<mathiaz> just a reminder that accepting bugs doesn't mean they'll get fixed
<mathiaz> next step is for someone to prepare the SRU report and a bzr branch for sponsoring
<mathiaz> ttx: anything else for intrepid?
<ttx> no, accepting them
<mathiaz> great - let's move on to jaunty
<mathiaz> http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://us-jauntynominated.notlong.com/
<ttx> should be declined. not in Jaunty
<ttx> regression if any should be handled in a separate bug
<ttx> as jamie commented.
<mathiaz> ttx: agreed.
<mathiaz> so nothing left in these lists.
<mathiaz> so next phase:
<mathiaz> Review accepted list
<mathiaz> well - I've looked at LP and wasn't able to come up with a query that would have this list
<mathiaz> FYI I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase in the SRU weekly review section from the IRC meeting section
<ttx> zul has been cherrypicking SRU candidates, but a list would definitely be useful.
<mathiaz> ttx: right - I'll work on my scripts to try to produce such a list
<ttx> great !
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team
<mathiaz> anything else to add to the SRU review?
<ttx> nope
<mathiaz> Things should be faster now that we have gone through the first round
<mathiaz> and purged all the backlog.
<ttx> yes.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] FFE for bacula
<MootBot> New Topic:  FFE for bacula
<mathiaz> so zul was supposed to talk about that
<mathiaz> but he isn't here.
<ivoks> eh...
<mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
<mathiaz> ivoks: ^^?
<ivoks> i'll ask him if there's anything special to keep in mind
<ttx> I guess he expects to request a FFe to get Bacula to 3.0.2
<ivoks> but it shouldn't be a problem to do a merge
<ivoks> so, i could work on that
<ttx> I'm not sure whay 3.0.2 is required though.
<ttx> why, even
<ivoks> security probably
<mathiaz> ttx: seems to be a new upstream version
<ivoks> Version 3.0.2 is primarily a important bug fix update to version 3.0.1
<mathiaz> it's been in experimental for a few months
<mathiaz> ivoks: right - however 2.4 is in karmic
<ivoks> we should move to 3.0.x
<mathiaz> ivoks: why should we move to 3.0.X now in karmic?
<ivoks> so, there should be an upgrade
<ivoks> it's probably to late now...
<mathiaz> 3.0 went in unstable 5 days ago
<Sam-I-Am> is 9.10 going to be lts? i forget...
<mathiaz> Sam-I-Am: nope
<Daviey> Sam-I-Am: no
<Sam-I-Am> ah, then it can probably wait until 10.04
<mathiaz> ok
<Sam-I-Am> if it was lts i'd say its a bigger deal
 * mathiaz agrees
<mathiaz> [ACTION] bacula FFe rejected - 3.0.X deferred to the next release cycle.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bacula FFe rejected - 3.0.X deferred to the next release cycle.
<dendrobates> mathiaz: although, it would be nice to test it in karmic before we put it in an lts
<ivoks> we might open ppa inside bacula-team
<Sam-I-Am> that'd work
<dendrobates> ivoks: that works
<mathiaz> ivoks: seems like a good plan.
<Daviey> dendrobates: Whilst i agree, is it a good idea if we get in the habbit of a non-LTS being an 'almost' unstable server release?
<mathiaz> [ACTION] bacula 3.0.X to be made available from a PPA from the bacula team.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bacula 3.0.X to be made available from a PPA from the bacula team.
<ivoks> i always consider non-LTS as 'technology preview' - this is something you'll get in next LTS
<dendrobates> Daviey: yes, that is what it is.
<mathiaz> anything else to add on the topic of bacula 3.0.x in karmic?
<mathiaz> nope - let's move on.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> mdz: ^^?
<mdz> mathiaz: thanks
<mdz> I'd like to check in on a few 9.10 projects if that's OK
<mdz> just to make sure I know where we stand for feature freeze
<mdz> I'll try to be quick, if I can get quick answers ;-)
<mdz> first, the UEC/EC2 images
<mdz> I see that they're building daily now, and they were included in alpha 4. that looks good
<mdz> I'm a bit concerned about the following bugs:
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/418130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418130 in ubuntu-on-ec2 "Karmic EC2 kernel tracking bug" [Undecided,New]
<mdz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-on-ec2/+bug/376740
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 376740 in ubuntu-on-ec2 "user-data script: "public key is not available" for PPA" [Critical,Confirmed]
<mdz> 418130 is said to be the major blocker, but it's Undecided/New and not targeted. seems in need of triage?
<soren> mdz: The latter was fixed today.
<mdz> soren: that's great news. launchpad still thinks it's open and critical. can we close it? ;-)
<ttx> mdz: 418130 was just created as a tracker. I asked jjohansen to update the status on it
<soren> mdz: It was closed 7 minutes ago :) I just haven't done the paperwork yet.
<ttx> mdz: I think he is on vacation.
<mdz> ttx: why is it "just a tracker"? are we not sure if there is a bug or not?
<soren> We're sure there's a bug.
<soren> The bug /report/ was opened to have a place to track the work being done on the subject.
<ttx> not "just a tracker". A tracker. there might be multiple issues, all resulting in not being able to use a karmic kernel on karmic images.
<mdz> I was pointed to this bug as the authoritative bug report for the issue which is preventing us from releasing 9.04 EC2 images
<mdz> iirc the problem was that the instances sometimes didn't boot
<soren> That's correct.
<mdz> there's nothing in that bug report about that, though
<mdz> is there a separate bug report which actually describes the problem, filed on the kernel perhaps?
<soren> There is. Just a moment.
<ttx> soren: ah ? couldn't find it.
<mdz> ttx: part of what confused me is that the bug only referred to Karmic (just as you did just now).  but do we not have the same issue on 9.04?
<soren> I've decided this is the one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-on-ec2/+bug/398568
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 398568 in ubuntu-on-ec2 "ami-bbf514d2: Sometimes does not start booting (empty console output, no network)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ttx> soren:  since jj couldn't update the status and zul is away, could you update status on that "tracker" bug ?
<mdz> ttx: since there is already a proper bug open, I don't see why we need this "tracker" one
<soren> I'm assuming the failure in us-east-1a is a different problem.
<mdz> soren: thank you
<soren> ttx: I know I said differently yesterday. Sorry.
<mdz> that one is set to importance Undecided, and is not assigned to anyone
<mdz> who is working on the issue?
<soren> zul and jjohansen.
<ttx> mdz: I acted based on soren's feedback :)
<soren> Yeah, my bad entirely. I read too much into the us-east-1a failure in Eric's report.
<mdz> ok, so it needs to be triaged and assigned
<mdz> what's the status of the Ubuntu package archive server(s) inside EC2?
<ttx> mdz: yes. I thought jjohansen would do that, unfortunately he is away
<ttx> mdz: will make sure it is.
<soren> mdz: I was under the impression that they were live.
<soren> I cannot say so authoritatively, though.
<soren> They're run by IS.
<smoser> i'm under that same impression, but can verify quickly if need be
<mdz> my assumption is that the official jaunty and karmic images use those repositories by default in sources.list
<mdz> is that correct?
<soren> In a sense, yes.
<soren> The instances, yes.
<mdz> so it dynamically sets it up at boot?
<soren> the images... Less so. We do some configuration at boot-up to adjust things like this.
<soren> Yes.
<mdz> ok, sounds good
<soren> That way we can use the same images all over the place.
<mdz> if someone could confirm that they actually work and are being kept up to date, I would appreciate it
<ttx> We're running out of time, though we can continue this status update in #ubuntu-server (or #ubuntu-cloud)
<mdz> sure, happy to
<mdz> ->#ubuntu-server
<ttx> mathiaz: close ?
<mathiaz> ttx: sure.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
<ivoks> yes
 * Daviey wonders if it is worth moving the time, as it clearly adds pressure on the TB every week.
<Sam-I-Am> yup
<mathiaz> Daviey: TB runs every other week
<ivoks> Daviey: or move it to ubuntu-server
<mathiaz> Also there isn't always a meeting afterwards
<mathiaz> anyway - same place, same time, next week
<mathiaz> thanks for attending
<Sam-I-Am> sounds good
<ttx> sound good
<mathiaz> #stopmeeting
<ttx> thanks mathiaz
<Daviey> +1
<sommer> thanks mathiaz
<Daviey> o/
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:04.
<manjo> roll call
<lieb> here
<manjo> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:57. The chair is manjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> YO!
<manjo> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
 * rtg is here
 * smb comes in
<rtg> manjo, you're a bit ahead of schedule
 * amitk is here
 * manjo waiting 1minute 
 * ogasawara waves
<manjo> We have several topics for discussion today, total meeting time is one hour, a little over 3 minutes per topic.
 * jjohansen waves
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Action Items: check up on drbd status in dkms package and kernel (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items: check up on drbd status in dkms package and kernel (apw)
<bjf> moving on...
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs)
<ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs (5 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> RC Milestoned Bugs Alpha 5 (0 kernel bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12713
<ogasawara> Release Targeted Bugs (9 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<manjo> ogasawara, anything else ?
<ogasawara> manjo: nope
<manjo> TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Milestoned Features
<ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/karmic-alpha-5
<ogasawara> manjo: nothing kernel specific there either
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: hwdb workshop (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: hwdb workshop (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> There is now a bzr branch of code for removing the HAL dependency from the hwdb and checkbox and using udev instead.
<ogasawara> This will hopefully be merged before feature freeze (which is in 2 days).
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: kms (apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: kms (apw)
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: new kernel on lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: new kernel on lts (rtg)
<rtg> manjo, about to be uploaded, probably later today.
<manjo> ok thanks rtg
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: review of non upstreamed code (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: review of non upstreamed code (smb)
<smb> I went over the list a few minutes ago. Most things are complete, a few disabled but not yet dropped and one driver (lenovo-sl) I have to check with Ike.
<manjo> ok thanks smb
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: android (coolony)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: android (coolony)
<rtg> I suspect there is no change there.
<bjf> that is supposed to be removed from the agenda
<bjf> [ACTION] remove android blueprint from agenda
<manjo> [ACTION] remove android blueprint from agenda (bjf)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  remove android blueprint from agenda (bjf)
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: suspend resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Blueprints: suspend resume (manjo)
<manjo> Working on putting together the USB test kit, target ALF.
<manjo> test KMS & suspend resume
<manjo> disable blutooth before suspend resume testing coz of known failures
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Other Release Tasks: AppArmour (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Other Release Tasks: AppArmour (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> lp #359338 started testing on it friday
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359338 in linux "apparmor paths are broken when using ecryptfs on jaunty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359338
<jjohansen> ut didn't get to far
<jjohansen> I have a request pull with about 10 commits I need to send out
<jjohansen> I just need to go back and add lp bug numbers to some of the commit
<jjohansen> s
<rtg> jjohansen, how important is this bug to get fixed?
<jjohansen> other than that there are some known bugs in user space
<jjohansen> rtg: you mean lp #359338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359338 in linux "apparmor paths are broken when using ecryptfs on jaunty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359338
<rtg> yes
<jjohansen> fairly, but it isn't a regression as it exists in jaunty
<jjohansen> but with ecryptfs becoming an install option ...
<rtg> jjohansen, on a diffetrent topic, how is EC2 coming (which has higher priority) ?
<jjohansen> I refreshed the EC2 patches against latest on friday
<rtg> you have a kernel that boot reliably?
<jjohansen> I can build a kernel but it doesn't package for EC2, and its editing configs
<jjohansen> that is as far as I got with it
<jjohansen> I have currently kicked off a build of the pv ops kernel to stick in for karmic
<jjohansen> until the xen patch kernel is running
<rtg> k
<jjohansen> rtg: no
<jjohansen> it doesn't boot reliably, but with suffice for alpha
<rtg> still the same availability zone issue?
<jjohansen> yeah the pv ops has the zone issue
<jjohansen> the xen patch kernel has other config issues
<jjohansen> it should just be a matter of working through the config
<jjohansen> the friday update fix a couple problems
<rtg> manjo, on to ARM status...
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk,bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale (amitk,bjf)
<bjf> Jaunty got it's FSL update. All ER8-SP patches applied and available in official Jaunty tree.
<bjf> Currently updating the dove configuration in Karmic. Dove, karmic pacakges are being published.
<amitk> nothing new to report (still stuck with the ethernet driver and perhaps some gpio misconfiguration)
<manjo> [TOPIC] Karmic General Status (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic General Status (rtg)
<rtg> uploaded a -rc7 based kernel, expect final perhaps next week.
<manjo> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels: Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels: Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<rtg> after that I'' start to get real fussy about what goes into master.
<smb_tp> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.79 (security)
<smb_tp> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.59 (security)
<smb_tp>             2.6.24-24.60 (proposed)[3] 0/2 verifications
<smb_tp> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.39 (security)
<smb_tp>             2.6.27-14.40 (proposed+security/pending)
<smb_tp> * Jaunty    2.6.28-15.49 (security)
<smb_tp>             2.6.28-15.50 (proposed/pending)
<smb_tp> Intrepid is just a new upload for the previous proposed. Both Intrepid and
<smb_tp> Jaunty are not yet accepted into proposed. Hopefully this happens this week.
<ogasawara> rtg: if there are some upstream patches which have not been merged upstream should I go ahead and submit patches or wait till 2.6.31 finalizes?
<rtg> submit
<manjo> [TOPIC] Netbook Trees: status (sconklin, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Netbook Trees: status (sconklin, apw)
<sconklin1> rtg just rebased the karmic netbook tree, I will test as soon as I can.
<sconklin1> All distro trees should now have the new debian directory structure in place
<sconklin1> that's all
<manjo> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<rtg> sconklin1, I pushed the rebase earlier today
<ogasawara> There were 4 regressions added to the list this week which smb and I reviewed yesterday and are currently investigating.
<manjo> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<smb_tp> For bug 417732 it seem I found the source
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 417732 in linux "connecting gigaset USB device causes null pointer error" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/417732
<ogasawara> Bug day stats can be seen at:
<ogasawara> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090818.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090818.html
<ogasawara> I'd specifically like to point out that *all* 50 bugs in the community section were triaged!
<ogasawara> Everyone please give a big big thank you to Andres Mujica for his help!
<ogasawara> I'd also like to note that Andres is helping write a symptom based suspend/resume apport hook to help with bug reporting.
 * amitk ^5s Andres
 * smb_tp Thanks Andres
<manjo> [TOPIC] Open Discussion: Anyone have any questions ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion: Anyone have any questions ?
<manjo> going 1s
<manjo> going 2s
<amitk> next chair?
<manjo> going 3s
<manjo> [TOPIC] Next Meeting Chair: lieb
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting Chair: lieb
<manjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
<lieb> manjo, send me the materials etc
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-26
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:10. The chair is nhandler.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Issuing the quiz to Padawans
<MootBot> New Topic:  Issuing the quiz to Padawans
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Do you want to discuss this? Or should we defer it until bodhi is around?
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, we need to wait for bodhi on that one
<nhandler> [AGREED] Wait to discuss Issuing the quiz to Padawans until bodhizazen is present
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Wait to discuss Issuing the quiz to Padawans until bodhizazen is present
<nhandler> [TOPIC AOT]
<nhandler> [TOPIC] AOT
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOT
<nhandler> Any other Topics to discuss?
<yvan300> why are we the only ones participating?
<starcraftman> Don't really have anything to add....
<pleia2> I'm here, nothing to add :)
<y_lee> yeah same here
<popey> me too
<swoody> +1
<Rocket2DMn> I't pretty typical for late summer to be slow
<yvan300> ok
<nhandler> If there are no other topics to discuss, I would like to give a status update about some outstanding actions that I have been working on
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Status update on outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status update on outstanding actions
<nhandler> The ##beginners-classroom channel has now been dropped. All classroom sessions should take place in #ubuntu-beginners
<yvan300> nhandler: what do you mean?
<nhandler> yvan300: About what?
<pleia2> nhandler: wow, not in -classroom anymore?
<pleia2> er #ubuntu-classroom
<popey> thats surprising
<yvan300> nhandler: outstanding actions topic
<nhandler> pleia2: That is what I meant, sorry
<pleia2> oh good :)
<popey> :)
<popey> back to sleep pleia2 :)
<popey> (and I)
<pleia2> hehe
<starcraftman> oh ok, sounds fine then.
<nhandler> Thanks for catching that pleia2
<pleia2> np
<nhandler> yvan300: Outstanding actions are items from previous meeting that people were assigned to take care of
<yvan300> nhandler: link
<nhandler> yvan300: Meeting logs are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings and the Team Reports are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/TeamReports
<nhandler> I have also made some progress on the new mailing lists. An RT request has been filed, and it has been assigned to the appropriate owner. I will continue to follow up with this to ensure the list gets created
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to follow up on new mailing list creation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to follow up on new mailing list creation
<Rocket2DMn> cool
<nhandler> Since yvan300 has to go, lets do his membership vote
<nhandler> [TOPIC] yvan300 membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  yvan300 membership
<nhandler> yvan300: Care to say a few words about yourself?
<yvan300> well, i'm yvan pierre, a young lad who loves programming and helping others
<nhandler> yvan300: What have you been doing with the Beginners Team?
<yvan300> well since i began back in feburary, i spent my time getting to know the team, getting ck linked and helping other whenever i can in ubuntu-beginners-help
<yvan300> i also became a part of ubuntu-beginners-ynu so that i can become a better, more polite person over the internet :P
<nhandler> Anyone else have anything to say, or sould we vote?
<Rocket2DMn> bring on the vote!
<swoody> +1 Rocket2DMn
<nhandler> [VOTE] Should yvan300 become a member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should yvan300 become a member of the Ubuntu Beginners Team?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<tim_sharitt> +1
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tim_sharitt. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<y_lee> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from y_lee. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<starcraftman> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from starcraftman. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nhandler> Any more votes?
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
<nhandler> Congrats and welcome to the team yvan300 !
<yvan300> nhandler: well met , and thanks everyone :D
<Rocket2DMn> welcome yvan300 , good to have you on board
 * starcraftman gives yvan300 his own personalized stuffed squirrel with nut gun as present!
<y_lee> congrats yvan300
<yvan300> thank you Rocket2DMn y_lee and tkanks for the squirrel starcraftman :P
<nhandler> yvan300: You have been added to ~ubuntu-beginners on Launchpad. Be sure to subscribe to the mailing list. You will get voice in #ubuntu-beginners once someone with +f shows up. You are also entitled to a VoteBot factoid.
<starcraftman> yvan300: your welcome, welcome aboard and have fun.
<nhandler> [AGREED] yvan300 to join the Ubuntu Beginners Team
<MootBot> AGREED received:  yvan300 to join the Ubuntu Beginners Team
<starcraftman> now if only bodhi magically appeared, like when I mention Rocket2DMn....
<nhandler> So, anything else to discuss tonight?
<yvan300> nhandler: ok, i'm gonna check it out now, but anyway i have to go , may be back later, nite team :P
<swoody> bye yvan300 and welcome again :)
<nhandler> Good night yvan300, and congratulations!
 * Rocket2DMn appears
<yvan300> o/
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: hehe, ya can't appear if ya didn't dissapear first.... then its not magic!
<nhandler> Are there any FGs that have anything to share with the team?
<nhandler> Last call for anyone with topics to discuss. Otherwise, we will end this meeting.
<Rocket2DMn> i think thats it, thanks for hosting nhandler
<swoody> o/
<nhandler> Go ahead swoody
<swoody> was there something we needed bodhi here for? Are we going to restart the meeting if he does come online?
<nhandler> swoody: Rocket2DMn's agenda item needed bodhi. We will not restart the meeting though if he shows up later. We will just defer the item until the next meeting
<swoody> ok sounds good :)
<starcraftman> LOL!
<nhandler> Ah, here is bodhi_zazen now ;)
<swoody> haha
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: Want to do your agenda item?
<Rocket2DMn> ah, he mad eit
<Rocket2DMn> sure
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Issuing the quiz to Padawans
<MootBot> New Topic:  Issuing the quiz to Padawans
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo all
<bodhi_zazen> can't stay long =)
<Rocket2DMn> I think the general consensus is that BT members want padawans to continue to be given the ritual quiz
<Rocket2DMn> if bodhi_zazen wants to share his list of questions with some others authorized to give the quiz, that would take some burden off of him
<bodhi_zazen> orly ?
<nhandler> By "authorized", who did you have in mind Rocket2DMn ?
<Rocket2DMn> idk nhandler , whoever bodhi_zazen wants.  It doesn't have to be the council
<starcraftman> Well I'd have an opinion if I actually saw the quiz. In general, I've never thought quizes to be that essential though, usually its not hard to tell when people meet set requirements for membership.
<bodhi_zazen> well, I think the current process of mentoring is best
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, it's just sort of a rite of passage :)
<bodhi_zazen> I think it would be ideal if members would help the new ones integrate into the team
<swoody> +1 bodhi_zazen
<Rocket2DMn> agreed bodhi_zazen , but it would still be good to use the quiz to see how much people actually know
<bodhi_zazen> if that is happening the quiz is almost unnecessary, as it really does not add much
<swoody> I think a mentor would have a much better feel about a new candidate than a quiz could give us
<starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: I'm wiht you on mentoring being more important, as I mentioned in the UA meeting I think it could be improved a bit.
<nhandler> Rocket2DMn: The quiz rarely ended up testing knowledge. It almost always tested personality. Although, we could change that
<bodhi_zazen> some members (mentors) have been kind enough to review posts on the forms, review wiki pages, etc
<Rocket2DMn> nhandler, equally important :)
<bodhi_zazen> If the mentoring program can not be revised we need to re consider much, the whole membership process, re-writing wiki pages , etc
<bodhi_zazen> so it is not a small decision
<Rocket2DMn> ok, well i didnt mean for this to be a discussion about the whole membership process
<Rocket2DMn> I dont think the quiz and Padawan system are mutually exclusive, I think the system works great
<Rocket2DMn> I just didnt want the quiz to fall by the wayside, as it's been tradition for as long as I've been around
<bodhi_zazen> I thought we decided to abandon the quiz
<bodhi_zazen> If not, it is easy to do
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Well nobody gave to me.
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: We dropped it as a requirement for membership
<bodhi_zazen> I can post the questions if you would like
<bodhi_zazen> who would like to dish it out ?
<nhandler> Should it be another individual? Or a team/FG ?
<bodhi_zazen> that's pretty much abandoning it nhandler =)
<bodhi_zazen> nhandler: before we go there we would need to decide to bring the quiz back
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, i know, but we're all well aware about your skill level
<nhandler> [VOTE] Should we revive the quiz?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should we revive the quiz?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<bodhi_zazen> 0
<nhandler> bodhi_zazen: +0
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<y_lee> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from y_lee. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<starcraftman> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from starcraftman. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Snova> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Snova. 4 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> Any more votes?
<bodhi_zazen> No clear direction there, a trend =)
<nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 4
<bodhi_zazen> masters can let me know when people are ready for a little quiz then
<bodhi_zazen> anyone interested in administering the quiz, let me know
<nhandler> Maybe we could discuss this on the mailing list?
<bodhi_zazen> I would probably like to watch one or two =)
<bodhi_zazen> mailing list is all but dead =)
<bodhi_zazen> almost no one uses it for "discussion"
<nhandler> Then send something to it and make it active ;)
<starcraftman> hehe
<nhandler> The few discussions we have had got pretty good responses
<nhandler> People are just hesitant to start them
<bodhi_zazen> If you like
<Snova> I have a few things I would say, but nothing I can say immediately; I shall probably post something later.
<bodhi_zazen> I am going to have to run
<Rocket2DMn> mailing lists dont have to be extremely active to be useful :)
<starcraftman> later bodhi_zazen
<Rocket2DMn> thanks bodhi_zazen , see you later
<bodhi_zazen> My only issue is to see they mentoring program revitalized
<bodhi_zazen> I think that is much more important, really
<starcraftman> bodhi_zazen: agreed.
<bodhi_zazen> IMO the quiz is secondary
<Rocket2DMn> agreed
<nhandler> Would someone like to take the action to start some discussion about this topic on the ML ?
<Rocket2DMn> is it needed nhandler ?
<Rocket2DMn> i can if you want
<nhandler> I think we should get some more discussion on this topic
<nhandler> Thanks Rocket2DMn
<nhandler> [ACTION] Rocket2DMn to start discussion on mailing list about quiz/mentoring program
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Rocket2DMn to start discussion on mailing list about quiz/mentoring program
<nhandler> Anything else to talk about, or can we end the meeting?
<starcraftman> nhandler: I'll add too later, I just remembered an idea I had at UA meeting. Sometime, wanna relax a bit first....
<nhandler> Ok, thanks for coming everyone. The next meeting will take place on Tuesday, September 8, 2009 at 23:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> [ENDMEETING]
<nhandler> #ENDMEETING
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:00.
<starcraftman> thanks for chairing nhandler, appreciated of course :)
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * slangasek waves
<james_w> hi
<al-maisan> hello
<liw> yo
 * mvo waves
<evand> hi
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0826#Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0826#Agenda
<robbiew> cjwatson: Keybuk: around?
<Keybuk> yup
<cjwatson> hi
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Karmic Feature Freeze Exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Feature Freeze Exceptions
<robbiew> who needs'em?
<mvo> I will need one for app-center
<mvo> eh, software-store
<Keybuk> do I need them if I set the spec for beta in the first place? :)
<mvo> (thats the new name)
<robbiew> mvo: heh...no hyphen (-)
<robbiew> Keybuk: uh, I believe so
<mvo> and maybe for compiz, there is rumor of a new upstream release (0.8.4)
<robbiew> mvo: why are you still doing compiz?
<Keybuk> robbiew: then I'll file bugs like last time ;-)
<cjwatson> I uploaded an initial version of cloud installer support to the archive today; it's quite incomplete in some ways, specifically it doesn't yet generate the preseed file for the node. However, it does have the basic avahi stuff in place
<robbiew> Keybuk: ack
<mvo> robbiew: don't ask
<robbiew> cjwatson: okay
<robbiew> mvo: hmmm
 * robbiew will take compiz stuff offline
<cjwatson> on GRUB2, I'm still working with upstream on some of the backward compat details (specifically making sure that it doesn't completely break people who forgot to run grub-install after update-grub); it's looking very promising though, and if the remaining bits are considered a feature I'd like an exception for them
<james_w> might need one to get the last of the new launchpadlib in place, blocked on python-oauth being suitable for main
<james_w> plus, bzr
<mvo> robbiew: seriously, there is some stuff in git that looks pretty useful, fixes and the infamouse crasher that has so many dupes that it makes LP timeout :)
<cjwatson> upstream would like us to get the grub 1.97 release into karmic if at all possible; I'll upload a fresh snapshot before feature freeze, and from then on it should be primarily bug fixes
<cjwatson> a current snapshot will have some basic auth support, which I know is a requirement from some quarters
<robbiew> mvo: sure...I just think the desktop team should handle it...but I'm fine with you helping, if it doesn't impact other work ;)
<mvo> *cough*
<robbiew> james_w: ack
<robbiew> cjwatson: okay...thnx
<slangasek> cjwatson: are we going to be pulling in grub2 by default on upgrade to karmic?  I thought that was planned at UDS, but would've expected it to land by now if so
<cjwatson> slangasek: I thought we explicitly decided against that
<slangasek> hmm, not what I had remembered :)
<slangasek> but ok
<james_w> I also have the MIR and seed changes for kerneloops to complete once it's out of binary NEW
<cjwatson> the spec is fairly explicit about this
<slangasek> (we spent an awful lot of time in that session spec'ing out how to make the upgrade flawless)
<cjwatson> the upgrade is relatively smooth, and that's a useful feature, but I don't think that implies that we should inflict it on everyone
<robbiew> +1
<robbiew> imho, it's a bit dangerous to simply force folks
<cjwatson> Kickstart: preseedable LVM-on-RAID is done and will land today as soon as the sync is available from Debian, and that's by far the most useful bit; I'm fighting with adding RAID support to Kickstart as well, and think I should have that done by FF
<cjwatson> I would like to defer iSCSI support in Kickstart, sorry
<slangasek> I may be biased having dealt with update-grub, but I disagree there :)
<robbiew> cjwatson: no problem on the deferal
<cjwatson> I know update-grub is horrible, but it basically works for several million people
<robbiew> is there a way to ask people during a dist upgrade if they want to keep grub or switch to grub2?
<cjwatson> I'd like to consider that in karmic+1
<james_w> oh yeah, slangasek feature freeze is midnight tonight, is that correct?
<cjwatson> the only way would really be extra UI in update-manager
<robbiew> ok
<slangasek> james_w: yes
<james_w> cool
<evand> one debconf question closer to becoming Debian :)
<cjwatson> well, or maybe have grub legacy depend on grub2 and ask a debconf question
<cjwatson> but honestly I'd rather not muck about with it now
<robbiew> I'm just thinking that the boot experience work relies heavily on grub2 being installed
<mvo> python-packaging> other than some talk with debian I have not put a lot of work into it, there is some proposal work on the debian side, I hope we can use that. in the meantime we should change the crritial stuff to use DH_PYCENTRAL=include-links
<cjwatson> it's much more of a priority for that to work perfectly on fresh installs, isn't it?
<cjwatson> maybe computer-janitor could offer to switch things over ...?
<slangasek> priorities> agreed, certainly
<robbiew> yep...not worried about it...just making a note
<robbiew> we can simply include something in the release notes about it
<slangasek> I was just confused becuase the spec didn't match how I remembered the outcome of the session
<robbiew> cjwatson: hmm...that's a good idea
<robbiew> liw: ?
<liw> cjwatson, janitor suggesting grub2 if grub is installed: that should work fine
<robbiew> slangasek: stay off the drugs
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> if I misremembered the session while writing the notes, well, that's possible and if so I'm sorry - but at this point it's an error that was left to stand for several months, and so (as you say) it really ought to have landed by now already
<liw> cjwatson, it'd be easy to do, if it's enough to just install the grub2 package -- is that enough?
<cjwatson> liw: there's a post-reboot step, which is a little non-trivial
<cjwatson> you install grub2 (actually grub-pc), do a test reboot which chainloads through grub to grub2, and if that worked you run upgrade-from-grub-legacy
<robbiew> evand: before I forget, will you need an FFE for the Migration Assistant stuff?
<liw> cjwatson, hm, then it's not so easy, but let's discuss that later
<cjwatson> ideally, the last ought to be hooked up to a notification or something
<evand> robbiew: I'm actually keen to defer that.  I don't think it's feasible to get it in reasonable enough shape, and get it tested by release, while making sure my others specs don't suffer as a result.
<mvo> sounds like we want a post-upgrade hook for this
<robbiew> [ACTION] liw and cjwatson to discuss possibility of moving users to grub2 via computer janitor
<MootBot> ACTION received:  liw and cjwatson to discuss possibility of moving users to grub2 via computer janitor
<robbiew> evand: no problem...deferred! ;)
<robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to defer Migration Assistant
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to defer Migration Assistant
<evand> everything else is in good shape and either in place or awaiting archive processing.
<robbiew> cool
<robbiew> slangasek: Multiarch Support....I feel a deferral coming :P
<slangasek> "ask again later"
<robbiew> lol
<Keybuk> slangasek: but it's FF today! :D
<mterry> :)
<slangasek> there's still slow progress; I don't have a sense yet of whether it's going to come together in time, because development is so bursty
<robbiew> I think we gave it a week (or two) past FF
<slangasek> I have a bit that I'm working on for dpkg right now which I hope to get to guillem today/tomorrow
<robbiew> so I'll keep asking ;)
<slangasek> yeah :)
<slangasek> but the bit I'm working on is a relatively small piece
<robbiew> mvo: is there anything waiting on us for the Distribution Upgrade Testing work by the QA team?
<slangasek> we're still missing, um... the database changes to handle multiple arch packages, and the dep resolver changes to DTRT with multiarch packages
<mvo> robbiew: I'm not aware of anythin
<mvo> g
<robbiew> mvo: cool
<robbiew> Keybuk: have you even looked at the RAM /tmpfs stuff? :P
<Keybuk> robbiew: yes
<robbiew> oh..cool
<Keybuk> and I uncovered pretty serious bugs in the kernel's virtual memory system
<Keybuk> that made me want to go away and hide
<robbiew> lol
<Keybuk> it looks like they'll be fixed for .32 or .33 or so
<Keybuk> RAM /tmpfs depends on growable swap, which depends on swapfiles, etc.
<cjwatson> what were the bugs?
<Keybuk> it turns out that the kernel has some major issues when it nears the top of available virtual memory
<Keybuk> cjwatson: kernel refuses to sacrifice any page cache
<robbiew> translation: deferred!
<robbiew> lol
<Keybuk> kernel refuses to swap contents of tmpfs
<robbiew> Keybuk: do you have bug numbers for the kernel stuff?
<Keybuk> if you have a swap file, kernel goes into a loop of paging things in and out of it
<Keybuk> if you don't have a swap file, kernel OOMs just about every process
<Keybuk> and for luck, it often PANICs
<cjwatson> oh, lovely
<Keybuk> robbiew: lkml posts
<cjwatson> yeah, I'm in no rush to tickle that kind of bug
<robbiew> Keybuk: cool...I'll go and look...or you can send me a pointer ;)
<Keybuk> robbiew: will dig up the discussion
<robbiew> thank you sir!
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Archive Admin help
<MootBot> New Topic:  Archive Admin help
<robbiew> so there was a bit of a backlog for some Eucalyptus related work
<robbiew> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EucalyptusInMainSpec/Packages
<robbiew> thanks to james_w for helping
<robbiew> I'm just bringing it up for those with the AA "power" and who have some time to help
<cjwatson> I think my eucalyptus-related time is better used completing the installer work
<cjwatson> though I'm happy to do small reactive things on request
<robbiew> cjwatson: +100
<cjwatson> one man, 100 votes
<slangasek> AA - I'm confused, wasn't the backlog on the MIR side?
<slangasek> or are those sorted and we're on to component mismatches?
<cjwatson> the MIR team asked for some archive admins to help out with the reviews
<cjwatson> particularly for those packages that didn't come from Debian
<slangasek> oh
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship Queue
<robbiew> everyone's favorite!
 * mterry relaxes
<dholbach> more sponsoring ... please!
<dholbach> and please add yourselves to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
<dholbach> thanks
<mterry> :)  dholbach has an IRC alert for 'sponsorship'
<robbiew> lol
<slangasek> I think it's just 'sposn'
<dholbach> mterry: coincidence :)
<slangasek> 'spons'
<robbiew> mdz watches the numbers like a hawk
<robbiew> which translates to emails to me...and you all get the rest
<liw> in a normal company we would say it flows downwards -- in Ubuntu, it's a floodfill algorithm?
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> in a "normal" company, we would say the $#!t rolls downwards ;)
<Keybuk> for the record, I actually tried to do some sponsorship this week
<robbiew> whoa!
<Keybuk> but cjwatson had STOLEN the opportunity
<robbiew> sure....sure ;)
<Keybuk> clearly he has too much free time on his hands ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<cjwatson> so pick a different package :)
<Keybuk> it was a package I was bug contact for and *everything* :D
<robbiew> Keybuk "tried" to do some sponsorship this week!
<cjwatson> which, automake1.10?
<Keybuk> aye
<al-maisan> My first bzr-builddeb branch landed :)
<robbiew> whoohoo!
<cjwatson> I was doing sponsorship in my calendar-reserved hour for sponsorship ;-)
 * robbiew is REALLY close to an Austin, TX Platform sprint :P
<evand> speaking of events, do we have a definite location for UDS yet?
<robbiew> that's probably only good news to me :D
<robbiew> eh hem
<cjwatson> the last two times I went to Austin, Global Bad Stuff happened
<Keybuk> evand: "definitely not anywhere but one particular place, but not definitely there" :)
<cjwatson> so, you know, pay up on those insurance premiums
<evand> lol
<evand> what happened?
<slangasek> good news: ucf should be a little less painful now
<cjwatson> the first was 9-16 September 2001
<liw> slangasek, oh?
<cjwatson> the second was when Bush gave his ultimatum to Iraq
<mvo> slangasek: wehhh - that is great news
<mterry> cjwatson, stay away
<slangasek> Keybuk: have you sponsored the bug that's in the sponsorship queue and has been assigned to you since March? :)
<Keybuk> slangasek: there's a bug assigned to me? :)
<slangasek> liw: three-way-merge failure: debconf prompt, then drop back to menu, instead of exit !0
<slangasek> Keybuk: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpid/+bug/285531
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285531 in acpid "acpid initscript speedup" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<cjwatson> your last comment is "
<cjwatson> Sorry, missed this one being assigned to me - will look in karmic
 * mvo hugs slangasek
<cjwatson> "
<robbiew> FEEL THE LOVE!
<Keybuk> slangasek: nope ;-)
 * slangasek snorts
<slangasek> Keybuk: oh, "nope" you haven't sponsored it, rather than "nope" it's not assigned to you... ok :)
<Keybuk> wow, I can actually view my LP bugs page today
<liw> slangasek, that _is_ good news
<cjwatson> slangasek: ucf> that's excellent
<Keybuk> it's been doing TIMEOUT ERROR! for days
<cjwatson> ucf is still used for grub2, btw, just not for the whole configuration file
<Keybuk> do we even still use acpid? :)
<liw> my best attempt at good news is that I have looked at C++ code and I am not entirely crazxze5rqw34wvqw345234
<slangasek> yeah, there were lots of other bug reports about this bit of ucf badness happening with other packages
<cjwatson> acpid is no longer installed by default, but it was installed by default up to jaunty
<slangasek> Keybuk: sadly, until we can completely rid ourselves of acpi-support, yes
<slangasek> cjwatson: no, acpi-support still pulls it in
<cjwatson> or is it still?
<slangasek> it's just not seeded
<cjwatson> bah
<cjwatson> the installer no longer has explicit code to separately install it by default, then :-)
<slangasek> right :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<robbiew> cjwatson: could you hit "submit" on your objectives...so I can avoid HR nastygrams :P
<cjwatson> oh, sorry, I forgot that was on me
<robbiew> no worries
<cjwatson> wilco
<robbiew> anything else?
<robbiew> once....
<robbiew> twice....
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:44.
<robbiew> thanks!
<james_w> thanks all
<Keybuk> cjwatson: you *so* wouldn't say "wilco" there :-)
<al-maisan> Thank you!
<mvo> thanks
<slangasek> thanks, all
<evand> thanks
<liw> thanks
<cjwatson> Keybuk: roger that
 * Keybuk sighs and hands cjwatson a copy of http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap413.pdf
<cjwatson> simply means "will comply", no?
<Keybuk> yeah, but when given an instruction you read back the instruction
<Keybuk> <me> "G-VT holding alpha, ready for departure"
<Keybuk> <tower> "G-VT take off at your discretion"
<Keybuk> <me> "take off G-VT"
<Keybuk> etc.
<Keybuk> and I'm just being a tiring geek pedant for amusment purposes ;-)
<Keybuk> wilco is more for replying to suggestions or requests
<marjo> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> Hi folks!
<pedro_> hello everybody!
<davmor2> hello
<marjo> Agenda
<marjo> Ubuntu Bug Day - Pedor
<marjo> Pedro
<marjo> SRU testing - sbeattie
<bdmurray> Hi
 * fader waves
<sbeattie> Hey
<pedro_> I have a short announcement too, forgot to add it to the agenda
<marjo> OK
<marjo> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Bug Day - Pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Bug Day - Pedro
<pedro_> Last week we celebrated a bug day based on Rhythmbox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090820
<pedro_> ~53 bugs were triaged , thanks a lot to Kamus and Scifly for their work
<pedro_> and continuing with the multimedia apps
<pedro_> Tomorrow we are going to have a bug day based on Totem: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20090827
<pedro_> so again if you have some time during the day please join us and help your lovely Ubuntu project ;-)
<bdmurray> pedro_: speaking of totem have you seen many symptom based bug reports come in?
<pedro_> bdmurray, mm nop
<marjo> anything else Pedro?
<davmor2> bdmurray: to be fair though I've found totem in karmic to be pretty stable.
<pedro_> marjo, nope that's all from me
<bdmurray> dang! ;-)
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing - sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing - sbeattie
<sbeattie> SRU activity over the past week has been pretty light, probably due to vacations and the rush for karmic's feature freeze.
<sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-08-19):
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 4 new -proposed packages (gitosis, packagekit-gnome, tzdata, zabbix), 1 pushed to -updates (tzdata)
<sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new -proposed package (tzdata), also pushed to updates, kernel for intrepid-proposed is pending
<sbeattie> * hardy: 5 new -proposed packages (compiz-fusion-bcop, ganeti, linux, tzdata, zabbix), 1 pushed to -updates (tzdata)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new -proposed package (langpack-locales), also pushed to -updates (same timezone issue as tzdata packages)
<sbeattie> Thanks to sothis, Benjamin Geer, and Tico for testing SRU fixes this week.
<sbeattie> As always, help in testing out SRU fixes in the various -proposed pockets would be appreciated.
<marjo> Thx sbeattie; anything else?
<sbeattie> That's it on the SRU front.
<marjo> pedro: you had an announcement to make?
<pedro_> ah yes just a quick one
<pedro_> this Friday - August 28th Daniel T Chen (dtchen) is going to give a talk about How to Triage Sounds Bugs on Ubuntu
<bdmurray> great!
<davmor2> pedro_: where?
<pedro_> time? 2200 UTC at #ubuntu-classroom
<pedro_> http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/64
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/64
<pedro_> i know that a few people is suffering audio issues with Karmic, so it might be worth to go there and learn more about the audio stack
<pedro_> and what the developers are looking in order to fix those bugs, etc
<marjo> thx Pedro; anything else
<Daviey> #ubuntu-classroom
<pedro_> marjo, that was it :-)
<marjo> [TOPIC] Any other topics from anyone?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other topics from anyone?
<bdmurray> I wanted to mention something
<marjo> ok
<bdmurray> I added a script to ubuntu bugpatterns called search bugs which allows you to run a pattern against a package bug list
<bdmurray> This is useful for cleaning up duplicates after the pattern has been written
<pedro_> great!
<marjo> thx bdmurray; anything else?
<bdmurray> I've done quite a few but there are a few duplicates of some of the kernel patterns that could use some cleanup.
<bdmurray> marjo: that's all
<sbeattie> bdmurray: awesome, that sounds quite useful.
<marjo> any other new topics?
<marjo> ok folks, if no other topics, we're done
<marjo> thx for attending & see you next time!
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:17.
<pedro_> thanks!
<davmor2> thanks bye
<trinium> 1
<pigflu> -_-
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-27
<trinium> 1
<trinium> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-28
<indus> hi,can anyone tell me when is next meeting for ubuntu asia oceania?
<indus> hi
<Xtreme_Great> hi indus..
<indus> hello
<indus> did any asia-oceania meetings happen today?
<indus> i wanted to become ubuntu member so iam not sure whats going on where
<czajkowski> indus: did you mail them like I suggest4ed to you the other day as the wiki had not been updated.
<indus> yes i believe,in fact one of the guys is a friend of mine
<indus> but they all seem busy with their work
<indus> fridge says asia oceania meet today 10 am gmt
<indus> i probably missed it
<indus> damn
<czajkowski> no meeting happend at 10am today going by the logs
<indus> ok a question is, do they have any group email so i can send?
<czajkowski> popey: do you know if the Asia meting board has a group mail
<popey> their meeting is on the 1st sept
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<czajkowski> indus: there you go
<popey> er
<popey> oops
<popey> wrong one
<indus> np,iam sending from launchpad
<popey> sorry, their next meeting isn't listed
<popey> indus: they have a mailing list
<indus> popey: they dont
<indus> so it says on launchpad
<popey> they do
<popey> its not on launchpad
<popey> one moment
<indus> where is it
<indus> czajkowski: hi how r u,thanks for the other day :)
<popey> ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania@lists.ubuntu.com
<indus> omg thats long
<czajkowski> indus: no problem.
<indus> ok ill email them later evening
<indus> last question,what are you guys hanging in here for? any meetings?
<popey> i lurk in many channels
<indus> ok
<indus> bye for now
<czajkowski> indus: I watch the meetings as more often than not then are interesting , tb is unteresting, foundation has wit, and the kernel team runs swiftly.
<popey> "tb is unteresting" could be taken two ways.. very tactful ;)
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> should be interesting!
<popey> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Unteresting :)
<czajkowski> popey: sfw ?
<popey> dunno
<popey> play it safe :)
<popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/57169 is SFW
<popey> copy/pasted :)
<czajkowski> heh
 * lool hey!
 * slangasek waves
 * fader waves
 * kenvandine waves
 * czajkowski wonders is the mexican wave about to kick off in here 
<cjwatson> afternoon
 * robbiew does a cartwheel
<ScottK> \o
 * kenvandine dives to avoid robbiew
 * robbiew turns an ankle and lands hard on his @$$...vowing never to try that again
<robbiew> :P
<cjwatson> is it Friday yet?
<slangasek> Riddell, marjo, sbeattie, soren, Hobbsee, rtg, apw, njpatel: here?
<dendrobates_> o/
<njpatel> hey
<ScottK> slangasek: Riddell is offline until Sunday
<slangasek> ok
 * rtg is here
<marjo> marjo waves
 * ogra sniffs ... 
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ogra> smells like release meeting here
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-28
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2009-08-28
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek> cjwatson: I saw mail to Gustavo about landscape, any answer yet?
<slangasek> fader: any progress on working around that nautilus crash (now that seb128 is back from vac)?
<fader> We're still seeing the bug crop up but seb128 has been on holiday so we haven't discussed it.
<fader> slangasek: I thought seb was back on Monday...
<slangasek> fader: oh, right
<slangasek> nevermind then :)
<fader> :)
<kenvandine> slangasek, he appeared briefly yesterday
<kenvandine> but not really here
 * slangasek nods
<fader> Ah, I didn't see him then :(
<cjwatson> slangasek: unfortunately not; however I'm not convinced we need to track this here
<cjwatson> we've delivered something on request of the Landscape team; if it's broken or inadequate then it's their responsibility to let us know :-)
<slangasek> cjwatson: ok
<robbiew> +1
<slangasek> soren: did the AWS page get published?
<slangasek> soren: and do we have eucalyptus seeded now?
<cjwatson> euca is seeded
<slangasek> excellent
 * cjwatson watches it being sucked down in his jigdo run
<dendrobates_> slangasek: the page has not been published yet
<slangasek> (oh, I guess soren's not here, there was a conditional in that mail)
<slangasek> dendrobates_: soren is following up?
<dendrobates_> slangasek: but smoser followed up with Amazon and is waiting for a response to Amazons internal escatation,
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> # njpatel to file bug against unr-default-settings for tracking of message indicator status
<slangasek> njpatel: ^^ did that get done?
<njpatel> slangasek: lool did it during the meeting last week
<njpatel> one sec, let me get the #
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<slangasek> njpatel: (we'll move on, drop the bug # when you have it)
<slangasek> marjo, fader: hello
<fader> Hardware certification
<fader> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<fader> No real changes.  The only failure result we're seeing is still nautilus leaving logs in /var/crash
<fader> mathben, our intern, is running tests on netbooks and laptops today, so some of those 'untested' results will fill in throughout the day
<fader> However some of them may not due to issues with the ISOs (particularly UNR seems to be having trouble installing today; I've asked davmor2 to see if he can reproduce the install issues and we'll file bugs if so)
<njpatel> #417001  fix-released
<fader> mathben has also verified that bug 404264 seems to be fixed -- the install is proceeding past the network initialization stage but the system is failing an fsck after install, which should be unrelated.  We will investigate the fsck failure and update 404264.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404264
<fader> Spec progress
<fader> karmic-qa-extended-audio-testing: this is 'beta available' -- I have written tests to hit a lot more of the detected audio hardware as well as some tests that can be run automatically in the certification machines we have in the lab and datacenter
<fader> (I won't bore you with a list or gruesome details unless anyone is particularly interested)
<fader> (that's it from me modulo questions)
<marjo> ok, spec status:
<marjo> * karmic-qa-increase-apport-adoption - Requested current status and plan with the the LP team.
<marjo> General spec status can be seen here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
<marjo> That's it.
<marjo> any questions?
<marjo> thx folks
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RoadMap
<slangasek> no questions here
<slangasek> anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<slangasek> marjo, fader: thanks
<slangasek> kenvandine: hi
<kenvandine> :)
<slangasek> davidbarth, njpatel: also hi :)
<davidbarth> hi
<kenvandine> slangasek, so do i go over the items here? or just highlight issues?
<slangasek> kenvandine: there's an up-to-date team wiki page about release status?
<kenvandine> yes
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<kenvandine> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> right :)
<davidbarth> the DX status covers both desktop and unr
<lool> davidbarth: Thanks BTW
<slangasek> kenvandine: if there are specific points on there that you think need to be discussed - need more resources from outside your team, or there's something that may affect release scheduling - please highlight those
<kenvandine> slangasek, ok... no issues atm
<kenvandine> nothing at risk for the release
<kenvandine> davidbarth, you have any?
<davidbarth> on the dx side, there is a current regression with the session menu
<davidbarth> pidgin does not reflect its status on the menu
<davidbarth> the risk is limited as the code is there but a bug still prevents the connection
<kenvandine> davidbarth, empathy too
<lool> I see the firefox bookmark syncing package landed in my package list recently, does that mean we might get it?
<davidbarth> we'll add a bug to track that for the UIF
<kenvandine> lool, no
<kenvandine> well
<kenvandine> it won't be in by default
<lool> ok
<kenvandine> installed via apturl from a u1 utility
<slangasek> davidbarth: UIF isn't in effect yet; opening a bug report for tracking is good anyway, but won't this be fixed before then?
<davidbarth> on the indicator-messages, we also have to update PK calls to the new API (tracked in the MIR)
<lool> And/or indicator-session?
<kenvandine> davidbarth, i think that is indicator-session
<kenvandine> not messages
<lool> I think I was this mentionned in -session's MIR
<davidbarth> indicator-session sorry, i-msg doesn't use that
<lool> Rigt
<kenvandine> but that is for beta
<davidbarth> indicator-session was the hot topic for this milestone, but is now safe in main
<slangasek> kenvandine: I'm confused about the PolicyKit->PolicyKit-1 migration status; if hal is not being switched, and we've gotten as much hal out of karmic as we can already, does this mean we have to ship both policykit and policykit-1 by default in karmic?
<kenvandine> slangasek, i don't think so... pitti's plan is just policykit-1
<kenvandine> afaik
<slangasek> ok, so presumably the bits of hal we have to keep don't need PK
<davidbarth> btw, n-osd and notifications patches are also safe in karmic; monitoring some regressions; also won't be able to support keyb brightness notifications (upstream regression)
<kenvandine> we still have indicator-session depending on policykit though, it needs to be updated to -1
<kenvandine> slangasek, i assume
<davidbarth> kenvandine: yes
<slangasek> the current hal package still depends on policykit, though, so I guess there's cleanup to be done there
<kenvandine> slangasek, ok, we should double check with pitti
<kenvandine> although i am sure he is aware
 * slangasek nods
<davidbarth> on the topic of kubuntu integration, agateau has provided all the critical parts, and upstream'ed as much as possible; the default settings will depend on upstream's final take on them
<slangasek> kenvandine: on the filtered spec list I see 'desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one' marked as Essential, but delivery status is 'started' - is that just an inaccurate spec status?
<ScottK> There is currently a fair amount of grumbling from early users about their default on status.
<davidbarth> finally, xsplash: we released some performance improvements and fixes, but it's there to be fine tuned before UIF
<kenvandine> that should be beta available
 * kenvandine fixes
<davidbarth> ScottK: yes, agateau mentionned it; I trust your judgment to enable them where you see fit
<slangasek> ScottK: that's grumbling that notify-osd is on by default?
<ScottK> slangasek: Grumbling that messaging menu is turned on by default.
<slangasek> davidbarth: keyboard brightness notifications... so we aren't going to have those at all in karmic?
<ScottK> We don't have notify-osd in Kubuntu
<kenvandine> slangasek, i can't change the status, but will have it done
<ScottK> davidbarth: I think it's fine for now for testing.
<slangasek> [ACTION] kenvandine to get status of desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one fixed up
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kenvandine to get status of desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one fixed up
<davidbarth> slangasek: nope, there's no such thing in DK atm; njpatel may provide add. details in the bug report
<slangasek> davidbarth: which bug report?
<kenvandine> slangasek, blueprint updated :)
<davidbarth> slangasek: don't have it listed now; can take the action to fwd it
<slangasek> kenvandine: thanks
<slangasek> [ACTION] davidbarth to find bug report regarding keyboard brightness notification regression
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidbarth to find bug report regarding keyboard brightness notification regression
<slangasek> ok, think I've managed to absorb everything in the report, at least regarding the desktop
<slangasek> anyone have questions?
<ScottK> You want Kubuntu stuff now?
<slangasek> yes, please
<ScottK> KDE 4.3.1 got tagged yesterday
<ScottK> We expect to have it uploaded before the milestone freeze on tuesday
<ScottK> spec status is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
<ScottK> A few things got deferred, but nothing essential.
<ScottK> Kubuntu Netbook is going well.
<ScottK> Upstream is planning on a plasma-netbook sprint next week.
<ScottK> So I'll be trying to work snapshots from the sprint in around the freeze.
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> I think that's it.
<slangasek> alrighty
<ScottK> I guess I'll add that upstream coordination on the netbook stuff is going very well.  One of the upstream devs is in #kubuntu-netbook and our buglist is his work list for next week.
<slangasek> ScottK: heh, nice :)
<ScottK> We should be ~6 months ahead of any other distro with a KDE netbook flavor.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> kenvandine, ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> lool, davidbarth: hello (again)
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<davidbarth> dx back on stage again, with njpatel
<lool> * News: switched to v7 buildds, v7 toolchain uploaded, new armel+dove image (relatively broken), new moblin-remix image (very broken)
<lool> * Oliver is looking for some skilled oo.o person to help debug #417009 (oo.o apps crash on startup on armel); ccheney reports being busy and doko is on VAC; cjwatson suggested rickspencer might know
<lool> ah no rickspencer
<lool> * tracking DX/UNR integration: had a meeting to review any potential integration backlog with dbarth and njpatel and we took various actions to review the current seeds, gconf settings, and we are now reviewing UNR status every week in the mobile IRC meeting; we will also start attending the desktop/DX integration weekly calls starting next week; happy to also cover this in the release meetings
<lool> * I'd like to know whether we want to track moblin-remix status here just like UNR -- it's a lesser priority spin and an unsupported one though and the meeting is quite long already
<lool> * not sure how much of low resolution application patches we can still merge before UIF, but that's low prio
<lool> Oh on UNR integration I forgot to mention we actually believe to be up-to-date for everything; I think njpatel was trying out the latest config this morning
<lool> seeds etc. are all up-to-date
<njpatel> yep, we're up-to-date with everything. more releases next week with more bugs fixed, though :)
<lool> So no more "Why isn't this DX thing in UNR or why isn't this enabled in UNR?"   :)
<slangasek> lool: moblin-remix status> if it's going to be a deliverable for karmic, we should track any problems with it here in the meeting
<davidbarth> we had 2 criticals on UNR, both are fix committed, and fix-released as we speak: #351527 and #411530
<lool> slangasek: Ok; it's a soft deliverable, unsupported, built from PPA; I think we want to move as much as possible into Ubuntu but it remains a "nice to have"
<lool> I will give updates here
<slangasek> oh, built from ppa - do we build that on antimony?
<lool> Yes
<slangasek> huh, ok
<lool> slangasek: I had the same reaction  :)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<slangasek> (relevant here too)
<lool> davidbarth even pointed me at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus#Netbook%20%28UNR%29 earlier
<davidbarth> slangasek: sure, mostly bug fixes, no new features
<lool> davidbarth: I think a couple of netbook-launcher are still to land next week but that's about it?
<lool> +features
<davidbarth> lool: yes, but the upcoming releases don't contain additional features
<lool> Oh ok I misunderstood then
<lool> davidbarth: thanks
<njpatel> yep netbook-launcher, window-picker-applet, maximus will get updates next week. Most all fixes.
<slangasek> ok, looks good
<slangasek> any questions on mobile?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<rtg> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<slangasek> lool, davidbarth, njpatel: thanks
<rtg> Not all of the release meeting bugs are on that page. Here is up-to-the-minute status:
<rtg> bug #359338 - no progress
<rtg> bug #290153 - still in progress (Andy is on vacation through next week)
<rtg> bug #409233 - no progress, need to reconfirm with newer kernel releases
<rtg> bug #404264 - patch upstream, definitely in 2.6.31-rc8
<rtg> bug #410198 - fix released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359338 in linux "apparmor paths are broken when using ecryptfs on jaunty" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359338
<rtg> bug #418265 - should be fix released, will confirm with ogra
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290153 in linux "Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290153
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 409233 in linux "[Regression] Bluetooth Causes Suspend to fail" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404264 in linux "karmic installer fails to detect Intel 82567 network card" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404264
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410198 in linux "'modprobe aoe' on Karmic kernel oopses with AOE device from Jaunty" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410198
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 418265 in linux-fsl-imx51 "Warning in ehci-hcd.c:911 on kernel 2.6.31-5-imx51" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/418265
<rtg> Working on 2.6.31-rc8 which it has a critical inotify regression.
<rtg> Dropped KSM patch set pending more rigorous testing
<rtg> Working with mobile team to improve the ARM platform kernels.
<slangasek> rtg: you shorted me a bug in that report :) - bug #418265?
 * Xtreme_Great wonders if this channel holds official ubuntu meetings
<slangasek> (and hmm, agenda editing fail; 410198 should obviously not have been in the list)
<rtg> slangasek, I see it in the scroll back
<cjwatson> Xtreme_Great: yes, and is doing so right now, so please only interrupt if you have relevant information :-)
<ogra> rtg, fixed for me, broken for GrueMaster
 * Xtreme_Great apologizes
<slangasek> rtg: ah yes - not on the wiki page
<rtg> slangasek, right, its not one I've been tracking.
<ogra> rtg, might be a different issue though, we both havent seen the warning message anymore
<rtg> thats mostly it from me
<slangasek> ogra: different issue how?
<ogra> slangasek, GrueMaster cant get USB NICs to work for some unknown reason (the ones i tested here work fine for me)
<slangasek> ogra: ok, but if it's not with this error message anymore...
<rtg> slangasek, these arm platforms are notoriously unstable IMHO
<slangasek> AIUI USB disks are working for him now
<ogra> slangasek, xactly
<slangasek> so I think that should be marked as fixed, and a separate bug opened for the NIC issue?
<GrueMaster> Maybe I can best describe the issue.  I have two usb nics, one is a Pegasus, the other is a DM9601 (drivers).  Both work fine in UNR, but they fail to detect mac addresses in arm.
 * ogra would like to see tobins final comment before setting it fixed
<ogra> GrueMaster, but you dont see ehci warnings anymore anywhere, right ?
<GrueMaster> The ehci bug was a kernel oops tat is no longer happening.
<GrueMaster> s/tat/that
<ogra> good
<ogra> slangasek, can be closed then
<GrueMaster> I'll file a new bug on the nic issue.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i'D still like to see the -source package come back for imx51 and i think slangasek had concerns about -docs
<slangasek> rtg: is bug #395358 on anyone's radar, btw?  I suspect, but haven't proven, that this is also the root cause of bug #397698 now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395358 in linux "thinkpad fn+f5, Asus fn+f2: regression, rfkill toggling in the kernel instead of userspace" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395358
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397698 in linux "isAnyWirelessPoweredOn in state-funcs always returns 1 in karmic" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397698
<ogra> we dont have a bug for that yet, i'll file one and might attach a patch for the packaging
<slangasek> ogra: yes, please follow up via LP for that
<rtg> slangasek, I've not noticed that one. too damn busy with arm kernels.
<slangasek> rtg: anyone on the team not too damn busy with arm kernels who might take a look? :)
<rtg> slangasek, I'm short handed right now
 * slangasek nods
<rtg> maybe I can get ogasawara to look at it
<rtg> though smb's name is assigned. I'll prod him
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any other questions on kernel today?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> rtg: thanks
<slangasek> dendrobates_: hi
<dendrobates_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<dendrobates_> A couple things:
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<dendrobates_> LP: #419515: OpenLDAP 2.4.18 upgrade, needed to complete server-karmic-directory-enabled-user-login
<dendrobates_> Virtual appliance features (not filed yet), needed to complete server-karmic-virtual-appliance
<dendrobates_> both are in need of FF.
<dendrobates_> Hopefully they can be completed next week during the server sprint.
<dendrobates_> that's all for me. :)
<slangasek> no questions here
<slangasek> anyone else?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> thanks, dendrobates
<slangasek> cjwatson, robbiew: hi
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<cjwatson> the bug statuses there should be largely up to date; there's quite a few of them at the moment but we are making reasonably steady progress
<cjwatson> if mvo's around, I wouldn't mind a quick discussion about whether bug 353534 is worth fixing in update-manager
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353534 in linux "dapper->hardy->intrepid upgrade path leaves user with unmaintained kernel" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353534
<mvo> cjwatson: I'm around
<mvo> cjwatson: sorry that I have not replied earlier
<cjwatson> and if anyone has an SSD convenient for testing, it would be useful to me if somebody could volunteer to have it abused for testing bug 415888; especially if you have an SSD matching that in the report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415888 in parted "Installation fails on Crucial/Micron M225 256gb SSD" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415888
<mvo> cjwatson: I can add code to update-manager that deal with the kernel update if needed
<cjwatson> mvo: do you think it makes sense? I wonder if we should have a general practice of trying to get people onto the current optimal kernel, whenever the rules change
<mvo> cjwatson: I think its best to select the optimal kernel based on the cpuinfo content (unless it is a self compiled kernel)
<mvo> now the probelm seems to be that its not trivial to find a good mapping of cpuinfo to best kernel :)
<cjwatson> right, that's exactly the problem that the base-installer code should solve for you
<cjwatson> unfortunately it will probably involve cloning-and-hacking it right now
<cjwatson> though it's designed to be called as a quasi-library (albeit in shell), so you could do a ubiquity-style thing of including the whole source package in yours as a submodule or something ...
<mvo> cjwatson: I like that, that sounds sensible
<mvo> better than to copy it
<mvo> I mean, to copy it only once
<cjwatson> or else change base-installer to deliver a .deb as well
<cjwatson> anyway, whatever's most straightforward
<mvo> cjwatson: I will go with the include-as-submodule approach then I think
<mvo> cjwatson: thanks, I will work on it today
<mvo> (and update the bugreport)
<slangasek> ok, great
<cjwatson> Robbie said he'd do the feature status side of things
<slangasek> [ACTION] mvo to include base-installer as update-manager submodule for CPU->kernel mapping
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mvo to include base-installer as update-manager submodule for CPU->kernel mapping
<robbiew> howdy
<robbiew> python-robust-packaging is still waiting on mvo update ;)
<robbiew> mvo: any news?
<slangasek> but not really anything there that's in jeopardy, AIUI, since the agreement is to not change the stack
<robbiew> I think so
<cjwatson> right, though it will affect several reasonably core components (by definition)
<cjwatson> at least as of the last discussion we had
<mvo> robbiew: yes, we will package stuff that is criticial infrastructure with "include-links" and defer the rest (debian is in the middle of a discussion about it)
<robbiew> mvo: so we'll need an FFE for this stuff, right?
<mvo> robbiew: well, I would say its more a bugfix, but I let slangasek decide
<slangasek> they're bugfixes - so no
<robbiew> ok
<robbiew> the landscape stuff is done, at least in my opinion
 * mvo nods
<robbiew> cloud-setup-in-installer is progressing
<robbiew> cjwatson can speak more to that...but nothing alarming at the moment
<robbiew> same with grub2
<robbiew> and I'll let slangasek cover multiarch ;)
<Keybuk> he's doing very well
<Keybuk> I've never seen anybody work on multiarch this long whilst retaining their sanity
<cjwatson> there are a couple of bits left of cloud, specifically the code to actually go and discover nodes on the local network and add them, and some more debconf questions in eucalyptus-{cloud,cc}
<cjwatson> if those require FFes, let me know
<slangasek> multiarch - shown in red on the report, and that's accurate :(
<cjwatson> and I asked a similar question by mail about grub-reboot/grub-set-default in grub2, which I think is making progress upstream
<robbiew> oh and Keybuk is landing a ton of boot stuff that will need FFEs
<Keybuk> I'm landing them bits at a time
<robbiew> and maybe a call for testing via the ubuntu-boot ppa
<Keybuk> through ubuntu-boot first
<Keybuk> so there will be "new stuff in ubuntu-boot, plz test" ... then an FFE ... then move to main
<Keybuk> while people are testing, I'll queue the next lot up in a second ppa
<cjwatson> slangasek: is multiarch a deferral at this point? :-/
<slangasek> since this is a blocker for proper sane fixing of alsa on amd64, I followed up to ubuntu-devel and proposed TheMuso a slightly less painful workaround
<slangasek> cjwatson: I have a weekend yet before I have to decide that
<slangasek> :)
<robbiew> Keybuk: posting to ubuntu-devel?
<Keybuk> robbiew: yes
<robbiew> cool, thx
<cjwatson> slangasek: alsa> I think I agree
<Keybuk> obviously don't install from there just yet
<robbiew> ack
<cjwatson> which is unfortunate, we were trying to *reduce* ia32-libs' size, but hey-ho
<slangasek> cjwatson: my fortune cookie yesterday said I could take on and accomplish ANYTHING I want to, so I figure that means multiarch will be done by Monday
<Keybuk> because there's one bit missing that I'm finishing up today
<Keybuk> slangasek: "...except in bed"
<slangasek> cjwatson: well, this effectively restores it to its jaunty state
<robbiew> I'm done
<Keybuk> probably worth mentioning swap
<Keybuk> and tmpfs
<robbiew> ah, yes
<Keybuk> swapfiles instead of swap partition, and following on, tmpfs-on-/tmp
<Keybuk> I tried this
<Keybuk> and I found very scary kernel bugs
<Keybuk> so I'm deferring it until those are fixed :p
<robbiew> oh, so both are deferred...i thought it was only tmpfs...noted
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> the tmpfs was fine
<slangasek> are those bugs open in LP, should they be linked from the spec?
<Keybuk> the bugs were with low swap, etc.
<Keybuk> tmpfs-on-/tmp had a dependency on that because we didn't want to limit the size of /tmp
<Keybuk> (ie. growable swap)
<Keybuk> slangasek: I haven't opened them in LP, I've talked to upstream people instead
<robbiew> Keybuk: don't other distros use /tmpfs and/or swapfiles?....are they also affected by these bugs
<slangasek> ok
<Keybuk> robbiew: they would be
<Keybuk> it's not swapfile specific
<Keybuk> it's "no swap" specific
<Keybuk> or "nearing the limit of available swap" specific
<Keybuk> swapfiles assume we start with no swap and add more when we need it
<robbiew> right
<Keybuk> tmpfs-on-/tmp means we can easily near the limit of available swap
<Keybuk> both trigger insane behaviour from the kernel
<robbiew> ok
<Keybuk> slangasek: actually, I think I did open a bug in LP very early on
<Keybuk> bug #386554
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386554 in linux "System behaved as if OOM when it had plenty to spare" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386554
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> anything else to cover?
<slangasek> questions for foundations team?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<ScottK> Hi
<slangasek> cjwatson, robbiew, Keybuk: thanks
<slangasek> ScottK: hi
 * sistpoty|work waves
<ScottK> Motu-release is up and running and reviewing FFe already
<ScottK> It's essentially like Jaunty
<ScottK> We did add a rule that for new package FFe, finding an archive admin willing to do the New review is a pre-requisite for approval.
<ScottK> ghc 6 transition is done and except IA64 is in good shape.
<ScottK> IA64 is broken in Debian and Ubuntu and likely to stay that way until upstream fixes it.
<ScottK> I took a first look at apt-cache unmet recently and it (without any specific work) looks roughly like it did when we released Jaunty
<ScottK> So I think things are in a reasonably consistent state.
<slangasek> great
<slangasek> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ looks like it could use some attention still, but certainly not as bad as it was earlier in the cycle
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ looks like it could use some attention still, but certainly not as bad as it was earlier in the cycle
<ScottK> So I think we are in good shape.
<ScottK> Yes.
<slangasek> ok, good
<slangasek> thanks for the update
<ScottK> I did do some pinging on NBS today
<slangasek> looks like we're at time
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ScottK> I'm working with R upstream/Debian maintainer to land so new R stuff that should be exciting for people who care about R
<slangasek> anything else we need to cover (quickly)?
<lool> slangasek: Couple of things I wanted to check with you after meeting, not relevant to everybody
<Keybuk> ScottK: I only care about one R source package ;-)
<slangasek> ScottK: sorry to cut you short, but I suspect Europe wants dinner
<ScottK> slangasek: I was done
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:33.
<slangasek> out of here, then
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<lool> thanks all
<lool> slangasek: One was that manifest thing I sent an email about
<lool> slangasek: and the other was just that we're way over size for UNR; Tobin Davis (Gruemaster) is working on this and I told him to ping you if he didn't know where to start
<lool> (over size for the ISO)
 * sbalneav present for Edubuntu meeting
<flint> sbalneav, I am also here for the Edubuntu meeting!
<sbalneav> Hello flint, long time no see
<ace_suares> hi scotty
<sbalneav> Hello ace
<flint> sbalneav, excellent seeing your typing my friend.  I am here to discuss recent architectural innovations recently discovered.  Where is Jonathan?
<sbalneav> Not here yet.
<ace_suares> coffe anyone ?
<flint> ace_suares, I like mind dark and bitter... BTW I cannot count.  Are we about to hit 17:00 UTC?
<sbalneav> !date
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about date
<sbalneav> !time
<ubottu> Information about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP)
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> By my clock, in 3 minutes
<ace_suares> here too, probably using ntpool.ubuntu.com :-)
<flint> ace_suares, change mind to mine...
<flint> !date
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about date
<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ ntpq -p remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
<sbalneav> ==============================================================================
<sbalneav> *europium.canoni 193.79.237.14    2 u  534 1024  377  139.910    0.653  10.946
<sbalneav> According to my clock, my jitter's only 11
<sbalneav> So I should be fairly accurate.
<ace_suares> flint: yeah i had to look it up in whatisthetime.com or something
<flint> ace_suares, there is a way to do it in irc but I have forgotten...
<sbalneav> One minute and counting :)
<ace_suares> ah well i sent a mail to the list to rouse some more people who where just playing warzone or chatting with the mom
<ace_suares> maybe it's help
<ace_suares> flint, I don't know you yet. I am ace, www.suares.an, www.opencuracao.com
<sbalneav> 12 noon
 * sbalneav sounds gong
<flint> ace_suares, It is a pleasure to meet you.  I am an old gong...
<sbalneav> So, AFIK, there's 3 of us in here.  Anyone else present?
<sbalneav> flint: You have any questions?
<flint> sbalneav, I am here to make an announcement.  Would this be a good time?
<sbalneav> Gooder as any
<sbalneav> Announce away
<flint> Please note that the Barre Open Systems Institute held a Chautauqua here in Vermont last week with Dr. Walter Bender of Sugarlabs, his staff and our local organization.  The result of this is the impending release of "maple" sugar for Ubuntu Jaunty.  https://launchpad.net/sugar-jaunty
<flint> Questions? Comments?
<sbalneav> Isn't Lns, or alkisg also working on sugar for Ubuntu?
<sbalneav> Very nice, AAR
<flint> sbalneav, AAR = ???
<sbalneav> At Any Rate
<flint> 10-4...
<flint> sbalneav, I am interested in finding out how we could include this in an upcoming edition of Edubuntu.
<sbalneav> Well, Guess I'll go next.  Sabayon's now in a useable state in Karmic and Jaunty.  I'll work on Hardy packages.
<sbalneav> Last night I branched the edubuntu-docs packaged, and started work on bringing the handbook up to day.
<sbalneav> date, sorry.
<ace_suares> re sugar: great - i'll watch closely
<sbalneav> flint: Don't see why not, LaserJock'd be the fellow to talk to, as he maintains the seeds.  However, he's between houses at the moment.
<ace_suares> re sabayon - great move, will test 'some day'.
<sbalneav> stgraber's got ltsp in good shape for karmic, and I've got vagrantc helping me with ltsp-docs packages.
<sbalneav> We'lll need an exception to get it included, but since it's just docs, I'm sure we can beg the right people.
<sbalneav> So, my two committments are coming along.
<flint> sbalneav, This is great news.  I was hoping that LTSP development had not stopped.  I had heard that LTSP had moved away from Edubuntu.
<ace_suares> Of course there's an agenda at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting/Agenda so my points are known... except with so few people... maybe wait some more.
<flint> ace_suares, thanks for the link... been looking for that for several weeks.  Why not on the old 'fridge?
<ace_suares> Kalimera alkisg
<alkisg> Wow!! Kalimera ace_suares :)
<alkisg> Hi all
<ace_suares> alkisg:  :-)
<sbalneav> flint: Well, there was someone employed by canonical to help with ltsp.  They just moved on, and ltsp just went back upstream.
<ace_suares> hi Svenstaro
<flint> sbalneav, I suppose that was Oliver eh?
<sbalneav> Yeah, he still helps with ltsp, it's just not his "job" anymore.
<sbalneav> Anyone heard anything from the people who committed to making edubuntu a bootable image?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: so you working on ltsp-docs (as a package) and not edubuntu docs?
<flint> sbalneav, a great loss... I like Oli a lot...  but on the other hand, he is German... :^)
<sbalneav> ace_suares: I'm working on both.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: 'kay
<Svenstaro> hi there
<sbalneav> Hello Svenstaro
<Svenstaro> Did I miss anything cool?
<sbalneav> flint: Well, we haven't "lost" him, he's in the channel every day. :)
<flint> sbalneav, damn, he probably "heard" me... :^)
<sbalneav> Svenstaro: flint announced sugar packages, I announced a working sabayon and work begun on the handbook.
<flint> sbalneav, I was really just trying to smoke ogra out...
<ace_suares> Svenstaro: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/08/28/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<ace_suares> flint: what's an 'old gong' ?
<sbalneav> That's all I have.
<sbalneav> afternoon, CAN-o-SPAM
<ace_suares> sbalneav: it's a lot :-) don't forget to include me in the edubuntu -docs stuff, please.
<CAN-o-SPAM> hi sbalneav
<ace_suares> hi CAN-o-SPAM
<sbalneav> ace_suares: Did you contribute something to the docs?
<CAN-o-SPAM> hi ace_saures
<ace_suares> For those who don't know me yet, I am trying to clean up the wiki
<ace_suares> flint: frindge didn't accept my meeting addition, don't know why.
<sbalneav> Or are you just talking about links to with wiki?
<flint> ...a poor player
<flint> That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
<flint> And then is heard no more: it is a tale
<flint> Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
<flint> Signifying nothing.
<flint> an old gong...
<ace_suares> sbalneav: no, but want to. at least in the structure, the conversion, that kind of thing and to put it on the wiki (even if it's just a link)
<ace_suares> flint: oh...!
<flint> ace_suares, I got the wiki web site in my notes... all is well.
<sbalneav> ace_suares: There will be a bzr branch on my launchpad, just branch that and start making any changes.  I'll be glad to merge.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: aha!
<sbalneav> Too bad nubae isn't here.
<ace_suares> sbalneav:  on this page: https://code.launchpad.net/~sbalneav
<ace_suares> nub said he wants to come to get accepted, but the the council didn't say they where coming, so that might be moot ?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: can not see your edubuntu docs branch, what am i doing wriong ?
<sbalneav> Just because he's not accepted as a "member" yet doesn't mean he can't show up :(
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> sorry, fat fingers
<ace_suares> sbalneav: h ehe
<sbalneav> it's not there yet.  I just branched it last night, and started cleanup.  I haven't pushed it to my repo yet.
<sbalneav> I'm out to the cottage tonight for the weekend, so there probably won't be one there until tuesday or so.
<sbalneav> Ace, you might just as well go on with your agenda
<ace_suares> sbalneav: oh but I thought you said.. hmmm... :-)
<ace_suares> sbalneav: okay
<sbalneav> "There will be a bzr branch on my launchpad"
<sbalneav> will be
<sbalneav> future tense
<ace_suares> oh
<ace_suares> sorry excusez
<ace_suares> fat eyes :-)
<ace_suares> so on the agenda first point: Wiki Cleanup Efffort (Ace Suares) Proposal will grow over the next days at Edubuntu/Wiki/ProposalWikiHomepage and EdubuntuWikiCleanupEffort
<ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu is the current homepage
<ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Wiki/ProposalWikiHomepage is the proposed homepage
<ace_suares> In discussion with LaserJock we opted for makeing all links go to external sites except 'grow edubuntu'.
<ace_suares> So if anyone in favor, i might replace the old homepage with the new homepage if the grow edubuntu page is done (it's not yet).
 * alkisg likes the new homepage *except* for too-many-borders
<ace_suares> alkisg: yeah the design needs to be improved. most borders will go. We can talk design issues after content issues... ?
<alkisg> Heh sure :)
<ace_suares> If you look at the old homepage (please do so) then you will see under 'community' the 4 items. Communication is a non-existant page. I did  a rework on teams and meetings. Participate is the one that needs to be merged in to grow edubuntu.
<ace_suares> Please look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting and see if you like it.
<ace_suares> Also at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Teams and see if you like it.
<ace_suares> Her eis a proposal for the new namespace: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/NewStructure
<ace_suares> Now what can we discuss? Any questions yet?
<sbalneav> win 3
<ace_suares> sbalneav: ??
<sbalneav> Sorry, forgot the / in front of the command
<sbalneav> someone just talked in #edubunut
<sbalneav> Speaking for myself only...
<sbalneav> I've always believed that the person willing to do the work should dictate how the work gets done.  If Ace has got ideas on how to layout the wiki, and is going to do the work, I'm happy to just let it happen however he wants to do it :)
 * ace_suares wonders why he was waiting for a meeting when he could be done with the job already 
<sbalneav> I was wondering myself :)
<flint> ace_suares, meetings are fun?
<sbalneav> But like I say, that's my opinion: someone else may have another.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: becasue the absentees insisted on that it would go through a meeting
<flint> ace_suares, ok maybe not...  I vote get on with it!
<ace_suares> probably to prevent more chaos
<sbalneav> But for me, I say: carry on seargent major.
<alkisg> ace_suares ++ :)
<ace_suares> hehe
<flint> ace_suares, ++
<ace_suares> but is also includes removing a lot of 'old pages' that are now redirected. Ogra and LJ expressed concern that it would 'break' links on the www.
<ace_suares> what's your (plural) take on it?
<sbalneav> I'd say, just make sure you don't delete any content, just move anything you want to get rid of off to "dead" or "holder" pages.  Then ulitimately, if someone has a problem with what you've done, they can just "get it back"
<ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Tasks
<ace_suares> sbalneav: my understaindg was that deletions also are revised, so you can undelete pages, i am not sure, but that I would like the best.
<flint> too much time spent on the web site detracts from actually doing anything about the software.
<sbalneav> Well, the web site's important too.
<ace_suares> But yes, I can move all those pages to wikisite/tobedeleted or so and then they are out of the way. Good for me!
<sbalneav> And if ace wants to make that his area of contribution, then I say just let him fly with it.
<ace_suares> flint:  and I don't code so no time is lost., really
<sbalneav> If it "breaks" something, then just fix that too :)
<ace_suares> sbalneav: depends waht you call breaking. Do we really need EdubuntuWiring to stay? A Google search 'does' find that particular page, in the archive of a mailing list from 2005.
<flint> ace_suares, the old saying here is "it is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"  go for it.
<sbalneav> But having someone who's WILLING to do the work, and willing to COMMIT to it, means we should just let them "get on with it" :)
<alkisg> That should be "LTSP wiring"
<sbalneav> That's my opinion.
<ace_suares> I realluy dont want a thousand redirects just becasue google finds it in a mailman archive. What is breakage?
<alkisg> If the URL is obsolete, then the page should be deleted... If not, it should be marked as "needs to be updated"
<ace_suares> alkisg: EdubuntuWiring is definately obsolete...
<alkisg> Yup
<ace_suares> The cookbook and the handbook too
<alkisg> That should move to the ltsp docs
<sbalneav> Can you rename a page?
<ace_suares> alkisg: it DOES redirect to UBUNTULTSPLTSPWiring
<ace_suares> sbalneav: yes
<sbalneav> Maybe rather than deleting something, we could just rename the page to "BlahBlahDeleted"
<ace_suares> alkisg: but do we need to keep te redirect even if google only finds one hit in a very old mailinglist? NO i say!
<alkisg> I agree :)
<sbalneav> If you do that as a "standard" it makes the page go away, but it's still "there" if we need it for some reason.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: my poposal was to rename it to /Edubuntu/WikiSite/ToBeDeleted/{OLDNAME}
<dgroos> hi all (sorry I'm late, just got out of other meeting at the school.)
<ace_suares> dgroos: hi!
<dgroos> hey ace-suares!
<alkisg> sbalneav: it's a wiki, won't it be easier to find it from the history instead of from a different url?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: so they are all in one place.
<sbalneav> alkisg: Maybe.  I'm not a super-dooper wiki expert. :)
<ace_suares> alkisg: if you rename a page, the old URL is not availbale and spawns the 'do you want to add' page
<ace_suares> however, if you search for the title then you will still find it, but in a different place.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: he he i became one i think :_0
<ace_suares> mor coffee anyone ?
<sbalneav> Too bad we can't just take a tarball of all the content somewhere.
<dgroos> ace_suares--no thanks, my java's doing just fine ;)
<ace_suares> dgroos: make sure you drink it just in time before it cools down!
<dgroos> :)
<ace_suares> Another question, what about the teams? There are so many teams that are defunct (i think). Shall I do a round of mails to the teams and ask them waht there future is, and if possible remove some of the teams from LP and the wiki ?
<ace_suares> wow, can't people in edubuntu been told to wait an hour till the meeting is over?
<alkisg> Heh don't worry we got dual screens :D
<sbalneav> If a team's dead, I'd say drop the link to it.
<dgroos> ah... multitasking at a meeting...
<ace_suares> both sbalneav and alkisg are helping someone in edubuntu and none answers questions here :-)
<sbalneav> Yup
<sbalneav> We like to help.
<sbalneav> And what makes you think either alkisg or I have the answers? :)
<ace_suares> sbalneav: I think I oughta ask them first. IE the website team, it's dead I think, I am the last member added, Philippe is off the train, the rest never answered a mail... I think it would be best to remove the team and make sure it is a task for the main team...
<ace_suares> sbalneav: well you may have opnions
<ace_suares> opinions they matter too
<sbalneav> I already stated mine: it's your show now: run with it :)
<sbalneav> I'm just happy to see someone doing the work.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: in fact i was told on several occasions to not go ahead and ask the opinions of the team.
<alkisg> I think the teams should be discussed with LaserJock around...
<sbalneav> The two who probably have the MOST opinions are LaserJock and HighVoltage, but they're not here :)
<ace_suares> Once again I am stating that that process is not helping new people to join and fell valuable.
 * ace_suares feels valuable all by himslef already
 * ace_suares doesn't really need a team to have strong opinions :-)
<sbalneav> Sure you're valuable.  That's what I'm saying, if you want to do the work, I say just go ahead and DO it.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: yes i noticed that too
<ace_suares> sbalneav: i know your stance now and I am happy with this! Is this also an 'official' edubuntu team decision?
<dgroos> I like the way ace_suares is striving to get some concensus
<ace_suares> I guess since this is *the* meeting
<dgroos> otherwise, we don't have a community...
<ace_suares> dgroos: I doubt that edubuntu really works on consensus. It's more like randomly fired opinions :-)
<flint> ace_suares, who is actually involved in the release process?
<ace_suares> dgroos: I think the underlying model is sel-reorganizing chaos
<dgroos> well, you are pushing to improve it, right?
<sbalneav> concensus is very nice if you have 30 people all working on the same thing.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: the thing being 'edubuntu', isn't it ?
<sbalneav> In *our* case, we have ONE person working on the wiki: Ace. :)
<dgroos> You gotta start somewhere and if there are only 4 people there, well start there and provide the process/opportunity to all.
<ace_suares> dgroos: yes, well, I like the chaos but then i discovered that there are procedures, and I was really told that I should obey the procedures :-)
<sbalneav> Like I say. I only speak for myself.  And my opinion is: I trust ace with the job.  If someone ELSE wants to express opinions, they're free to do so.
<ace_suares> sbalneav: but the wiki is one very visible part of edubuntu, as is the website, which i am planning on bulldozering after I stand on the ashes of the current wiki ....
<ace_suares> sbalneav: lol
<dgroos> well, self-organizing organizations and all do work by a kind of chaos, I think, but with a process of concensus-seeking makes for a place I want to be.
<alkisg> I think ace_suares got about 9-10 ++  for the wiki job, so that's a lot of concensus :)
<ace_suares> It's almost an hour now, I what time the meeting ends anyway? I'd be happy to close it soon with the result that I can hack way on the wiki ;_0
<flint> ace_suares, hack away!
<dgroos> alkisg: I agree, add my +'s to it as well!
<ace_suares> dgroos: now there is consensus :-)
<dgroos> NICE!
<sbalneav> exactly.  ace_suares++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<sbalneav> go man fo
<sbalneav> go man go
 * ace_suares realizes he could be on an inhabited island 30 cliks of the coast with his family and eat roasted chicken from the grill...
<ace_suares> thenk you all for your trust and cooperation
<ace_suares> Please do come with remarks if you feel there are things that could be done differently!
<dgroos> thanks for insisting on ... consensus :)
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> so
<ace_suares> dgroos: I like the lazy consensus model. Peope who don't disagree automatically agree. That way, meetings withe only 4 people gain an incredible deciding power... Apache uses it in their development. It's cool.!
<flint> * flint is content...
<sbalneav> wiki's in ace's capable hands, sabayon's working, handbooks underway.
<ace_suares> I am just posting the youtube here for those that havent' seen it: http://www.youtube.com/v/EtSh2GBDY_Q grin
<sbalneav> Anything else?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: nice summary! And empowering too. Hey ho, let's go, like the ramones used to say!
<ace_suares> I have nothing else.
<sbalneav> Going once going twice
<sbalneav> anyone else?
<ace_suares> sbalneav: add sugar annoucement to the list: iki's in ace's capable hands, sabayon's working, handbooks underway, sugar announced in launchpad by flint
<flint> ace_suares, thanks!!!!
<ace_suares> hey, no thanks, I'd really like to see that work on a TC!
<flint> See you all next week.
<ace_suares> Meeting adjourned, continue help in #edubuntu ;-)
<ace_suares> Oh next meeting date, week from now?
<sbalneav> Go ahead and schedule.  I'll be there.
<ace_suares> kk
<ace_suares> bye then!
<sbalneav> Afternoon all, heading out to cottage
<alkisg> Bye all :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-29
<Abdullah9> HEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp , any one ?
<hyperair> wrong place. head to #ubuntu
<Abdullah9> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-08-30
<doctormo> ding ding
<pleia2> ok, who all is here for the community learning project meeting?
<pleia2> #startmeeting Ubuntu Community Learning Project
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<doctormo> BiosElement, danbhfive, doctormo and maybe some others.
<danbhfive> yes, Im here!
<Grantbow> I'm hear to learn more.
<Grantbow> *here
<pleia2> ok, before we get to the agenda I'd like to know if there are more folks here like Grantbow who are interested in knowing more about the project and how to contribute
<danbhfive> I'm in that boat
<pleia2> the project is primarily focused around development of course material to be presented by loco teams and other interested in hosting courses, but also includes projects like Classroom which do IRC-based training
<pleia2> essentially it's a place for all community learning things to converge
<pleia2> doctormo has been leading the way with both course development AND teaching at his loco :)
<pleia2> so the spectrum of "what we need help with" at this point is pretty broad
<doctormo> This means we have need for drafters, peer reviewers, graphics artists etc etc
<doctormo> As well as teachers, students and all of those who will use the materials
<pleia2> I'd like to nail down some specifics during the second agenda item, since we seem a bit stalled on the volunteer stuff
<Grantbow> agenda url?
<pleia2> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<Grantbow> ty
<doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning <- main wiki
<pleia2> does anyone have any specific general questions before we get to the Agenda? (we can get to questions after, too, if you think of any)
<danbhfive> I'm good to ask questions after
<pleia2> ok, cool
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Course production progress check-in
<MootBot> New Topic:  Course production progress check-in
<pleia2> I have to sheepishly admit that I'm behind on the desktop introduction course, I've extended my deadline a week out (was supposed to be due tomorrow)
<pleia2> I was working on the desktop stuff: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/UbuntuDesktopTopics
<pleia2> doctormo: can you give us a quick status update on your sysadmin courses?
<pleia2> BiosElement: can you do the same with your course development?
<doctormo> pleia2: Right, so the first 7 classes of the preset 10 class course have been written in first draft (alpha) quality.
<pleia2> \o/
<BiosElement> Sure, currently somewhat stalled but continuing to make progress. Currently working on a course development workflow.
<doctormo> Desktop: pleia2, SysAdmin: doctormo, Programming/Development: none, Teaching: BiosElement, Marketing/LoCo: none
<pleia2> ok, I think that's enough of an update unless either of you have more to add
<pleia2> the next agenda item is directly related
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Tasklist for new volunteers?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Tasklist for new volunteers?
<pleia2> so, based on our current course development statuses, what specific tasks can we give new volunteers?
<pleia2> doctormo: presumably you need reviewers?
<doctormo> pleia2: sure do
<pleia2> I know for me it would be nice to see each section of the 5-prong teaching fleshed out some, have volunteers provide good links to existing content so when the actual course-writers come along they don't need to spend days digging up the appropriate, quality documenation they need
<doctormo> danbhfive is helping me reviewing some of the classes in the sysadmin class.
<pleia2> hooray danbhfive :)
<doctormo> paultab was also giving me a hand with it
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> I think we should resurrect our task list
<pleia2> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Tasks
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Tasks
<doctormo> So yes, getting people writing is important, even if what they write isn't the best last draft. Getting things structured is easy enough, getting it written on that structure takes time.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> doctormo: I will say, your coursework thus far is very inspiring
<doctormo> Perhaps we need to come up with a bit of marketing once our BiosElement has finished with the how to write a course class, that was we can advertise a class to teach the course writing.
<pleia2> maybe we can target our marketing to specific teams within the project?
<doctormo> pleia2: The one hole in my course material is the practicals, I'm hoping second drafting with danbhfive can plug some of those holes.
<doctormo> pleia2: Sure, for instance I would target something to the forums to advertise for desktop class writers.
<pleia2> doctormo: I play sysadmin by day, so I'll carve out some time to review as well :)
<doctormo> Thank you
<Grantbow> would a tri-fold flyer targeted at non-technical non-Linux computer users fall under Marketing/LoCo?  http://www.berkeleylug.com/Contributions/
<pleia2> Grantbow: yep!
<Grantbow> great
<doctormo> Grantbow: How to write a tri-fold flyer would, the flyer it's self would go to spreadubuntu project?
<pleia2> so the marketing courses will be teaching people how to use and develop these kinds of materials
<Grantbow> ah
<pleia2> there might be one lesson called "leveraging the resources of spreadubuntu"
<Grantbow> sounds like LoCo classes are an extension of Mentorship
<doctormo> Grantbow: Or something to feed it
 * Grantbow nods
<Grantbow> outreach
<doctormo> Grantbow: Don't forget, we're a place to build materials to use for these kinds of teaching and mentoring classes.
<pleia2> yeah, most of the information about how to do everything we're doing already exists in documentation, we're seeking to put it into teachable format
<doctormo> Grantbow: If you know anyone in the mentorship group who would like to head up the marketing/loco section, that would fill a hole.
<pleia2> reading wiki pages all day gets pretty dry, and telling everyone in your loco to read it rather than presenting it to them 1) doesn't work 2) isn't very fun :)
<Grantbow> not right now
<doctormo> Grantbow: How big is the mentorship group?
<pleia2> are we referring to the USTeams Mentors?
<Grantbow> doctormo: that's a better question for pleia2 I think.
<Grantbow> I was thinking of US, yes.
<pleia2> we currently have 4 mentors on the team
<pleia2> each mentors 3-4 states at the moment
<doctormo> Ah so not that big yet.
<pleia2> maybe we can talk pak33m into helping out :) he's our newest mentor
<doctormo> For now we can put the topic into "gardening", just have a look at the topics page and weed it now and then with the ideas you've picked up.
 * pleia2 nods
<doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/AdvocateTopics
<doctormo> I'm thinking of renaming it anyway, from Advocate to CommunityTopics
<pleia2> that seems reasonable
<pleia2> ok, so, any ideas for more specific tasks at this time?
<pleia2> I think this is a fine start
<GidgetKitchen> doctormo: +1
<Grantbow> with the spread ubuntu project, that might be a good name - community is too broad
<pleia2> doctormo: oh! Can you link the rest of your courses to the sysadmin page? I think only 3 are now
<doctormo> pleia2: Ah right
<doctormo> Actually 5 are, see section 2
<pleia2> ok cool
<Grantbow> a great start, indeed!
<pleia2> [TOPIC] General questions/discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  General questions/discussion
<pleia2> ok, floor is open :)
<GidgetKitchen> Finding Loco pictures that actually represent the communities we are trying to attract?
<doctormo> OK updated
<GidgetKitchen> Less white dudes (Like me) + more diversity!
<pleia2> doctormo: thanks!
<doctormo> GidgetKitchen: http://www.depthstories.com/globe.jpg like this?
<danbhfive> what is the 5-prong teaching referenced earlier?
<pleia2> danbhfive: on the main page if you scroll down to the bottom you'll see the 5 topics
<doctormo> danbhfive: scroll down tot he bottom of this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<danbhfive> ah, ok
<doctormo> pleia2: Looks like that's the end of the questions.
<pleia2> seems like
<GidgetKitchen> doctormo: sure - i mean women, minorities, different orientations - people should feel they have an ally in Ubuntu
<doctormo> GidgetKitchen: We should promote the idea that there are no enemies. ally as a word says more about division.
<pleia2> GidgetKitchen: do you mean including such pictures in our courses? I think it's a good idea, and if you look at some of the loco team pictures world-wide you'll see more diversity
<doctormo> pleia2: Do we have any photos in our courses?
<pleia2> doctormo: you have screenshots, I think for advocacy stuff we'll want pictures of happy people :)
<danbhfive> how is the overall structure of the courses being decided?  ie, the listings under each of the 5 prongs
<pleia2> there are more women participating in other countries, what we consider "minorities" in some countries are majorities elsewhere, etc
<GidgetKitchen> sorry my reference is to the lack of women in opensource & mens job to help be an ally
<GidgetKitchen> I'll be quiet now <:-)
<pleia2> danbhfive: wiki-like :) it's all community developed and then the actual course developers take that structure and handle it
<pleia2> BiosElement is handling further documentation on the specifics of how this works
<danbhfive> ok
<pleia2> GidgetKitchen: oh no! your contributions are quite welcome, I was just trying to figure out how it was applicable to this specific project :)
<BiosElement> If you have any questions related to that , Let me know and I'll figure it out. >.>
<doctormo> GidgetKitchen: Sorry, I didn't mean to be harsh.
<doctormo> pleia2: Women, the majority minority ;-)
<pleia2> doctormo: indeed :)
<pleia2> anything else?
<doctormo> In my sysadmin class, It turned out quite diverse. A couple of white males, but also two women, one blind guy and lots of colours. (can't remember which though, blind spot)
<pleia2> ubuntu pennsylvania tends to work with non-profits in philadelphia, I'd say white males are still over 50% of the people we work with, but not by much
<doctormo> pleia2: Nothing pressing, the goal seems to be: I will teach as much as I can while we tweak the course creation. Once we've got it penned and drafted and reviewed, we'll Go on a marketing blitz.
<pleia2> doctormo: sounds good :)
<doctormo> I say we got to the ubuntu-devel mailing lists for someone to head up programming and development, to the forums for desktop and perhaps to locos and planets for marketing and community?
<pleia2> add bugsquad to programming and dev
<doctormo> Aye, am I writing this down?
<pleia2> that would be nice :)
<pleia2> maybe add it to the top of each of our 5 pages? "we'd like to see people from $here and $here2 helping"
<pleia2> or reach out to them, or something
<doctormo> Will do that now then, meeting closed?
<pleia2> yes, I'd say so
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:43.
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<danbhfive> thankyou
<pleia2> we're going to pop over to #ubuntu-learning now, in a few minutes doctormo is going to give us a crash course in our bzr repot :)
<Grantbow> o/
<pleia2> -t
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-30
<edwalf> hola
<edwalf> Necesito ayuda un poco urgente
<edwalf> hola
<edwalf> hola, alguien me puede ayudar con la instalacion de un controlador grafico?
<robbiew> o/
<jdstrand> o/
<mdeslaur> hellow
<jdstrand> hiw
<sbeattie> hey
<kees> \o
<kees> okay, so, I'm on community. publishing yet-another hardy-openjdk to fix more universe regressions
<kees> the security bug list could use some love; I took it from about 85 bugs to about 40 now, but there are some things still in there
<kees> I'm going to try to take a few low-hanging fruit updates too. libhx looked reaaally easy
 * jdstrand will get to them
<kees> I'm also tracking a number of kernel issues that were reported last week
<kees> that's it from me!
<jdstrand> shall I go?
<kees> yawp
<jdstrand> so as of right...
<jdstrand> 'now'
<jdstrand> I uploaded 0.30 to maverick
<jdstrand> ufw
<kees> \o/
<jdstrand> \o/
<mdeslaur> yay :)
<jdstrand> :)
<jdstrand> anyhoo
<jdstrand> so I know I've kept saying I was going to get libvirt out, but I think this time I mean it
<kees> hehe
<mdeslaur> hehe
<jdstrand> the last kernel update and its associated regression distracted me a bit, as did a libvirt/eucalyptus bug and some other stuff
<jdstrand> that's all done, so I'll get back to libvirt
<jdstrand> I am on triage this week and will pick up an update as time allows
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> So, I'm preparing libwww-perl and bogofilter updates
<mdeslaur> I checked in a bogofilter test script this morning
<mdeslaur> and am working on a libwww-perl test script
<mdeslaur> I'll probably be releasing them tomorrow
<mdeslaur> and will be looking for other updates to do in the list
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: your turn
<sbeattie> Hrm, I was on community last week, and apparently did a bad job of it if I left the new bugs queue in such a state, sorry about that.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: new bugs is not community-- that's triage
<sbeattie> I released an okular/kdegraphics update at the prompting of jriddell.
<jdstrand> community is processes debdiffs and fake security syncs
<sbeattie> jdstrand: ah, okay, I tried to hit them during my triage week.
<kees> s'okay, we just do what we can. :)
<sbeattie> I also added a test script for okular to qart
<jdstrand> yes, no worries
<sbeattie> (based on the evince script)
<jdstrand> everyone is busy, we'll back each other up as needed
 * ScottK just added a comment to Bug #625849 that he wanted to bring to the attention of community/triage as appropriate.
<ubottu> Bug 625849 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/625849 is private
<kees> ScottK: okay, thanks
<sbeattie> I helped hggdh with some qart integration into checkbox, and as part of that I'm now running through a bunch of the qart tests on maverick to look for regressions, I know we've got at least some possible ones in test-built-binaries.py :-(
<mdeslaur> ouch!
<sbeattie> yeah.
<kees> test-built-binaries is rather fragile
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: I think the DNSSEC tests from bind9 are failing as well; I think you wrote those?
 * kees has been thinking about ways to make it a little more robust
 * jdstrand was uaware of test-built-binaries
<jdstrand> oh, did I say that out loud?
<sbeattie> kees: I need to triage the failures to see why, and then I'll see if there's a way we can make them more robust if its a false positive.
 * kees runs the test
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: hmm...yeah I wrote them...I'll take a look
<jdstrand> there are always things we need to fix in those with each new release
<kees> yeah
<sbeattie> ... or I can let kees do it.
<jdstrand> anything with an apparmor profile we ought to run around RC
<sbeattie> jdstrand: right, I wanted to make sure if the issue was in the package rather than our tests, we should fix them now.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: yes, that is a great idea
<sbeattie> anyway, also for this week, I try to pick up another update.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<kees> alright, anything else, or questions/concerns for the security team?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: just for info, not to poke you or anything...
<sbeattie> heh, uh-oh
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I was curious on the timeframe for apparmor 2.5.1
<sbeattie> jdstrand: me too!
<jdstrand> lol
<sbeattie> (oops, did I say that out loud)
<kees> sbeattie: looks like nagios-plugins is a real regression (it lost PIE)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: really, in terms of maverick, it isn't hugely critical, cause I'll just pull what we have
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I'm conflicted; I want it out soon because we've not been very good at doing real releases.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: but it would be nice to have it like we talked about. if you need help, let me know
<sbeattie> but I also keep finding bugs, etc.
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: new bugs are for 2.5.2 :)
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: right, I should just let it go and work on releasing 2.5.1
<jdstrand> sbeattie: well, an important bug that I think jjohansen may have been working on is that I know at least apparmor_notify doesn't work in maverick now-- did those fixes make it into 2.5.1 already (I haven't tried, please forgive me)
<jjohansen> well that and maverick doesn't need 2.5.1 kernel bits so just pull
<jdstrand> hey jjohansen :)
<jjohansen> jdstrand: no, I haven't got them in yet
<jdstrand> ok
<jjohansen> I have some of the patches in, but not enough to get aa_notify going
<jdstrand> well, we don't need to upload anything this week anyway
<jjohansen> I can get them in this week
<sbeattie> jjohansen: what's needed?
<jjohansen> sbeattie: more log parsing updates
<sbeattie> jjohansen: ah, okay, we should probably coordinate.
<jjohansen> yeah
<sbeattie> but here/now probably not
<sbeattie> but here/now's probably not the place/time
<jjohansen> and the tools, need some knowledge about mapping target to name etc
<jjohansen> yep
<sbeattie> jdstrand: is that a sufficiently confusing status update?
<jjohansen> :)
<jdstrand> actually, I was just typing "well, that answer's my question anyway"
<jdstrand> :)
<jdstrand> answers
<jdstrand> so "yes"
<kees> ...
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<kees> how did coreutils lose stack protector?
<kees> okay, anything else?
 * jdstrand realizes he did know what test-built-binaries.py after all
<jdstrand> ScottK: ack on that bug btw
<kees> alrighty, thanks everyone!
<jdstrand> thanks kees! :)
<mdeslaur> thanks
<ScottK> kees: No idea (re that bug), but I can investigate.
<kees> ScottK: cool.
<JohnFlux> Hi all - did I miss the meeting?
<jjohansen> JohnFlux: if you mean the security meeting then yes
<HaYder> me podrian ayudar a generar un misarchivos.lst
<HaYder> desde consola
<HaYder> ese archivo va a contener el nombre y los archivos de toda una carpeta
<JFo> !sp
<czajkowski> !es
<ubottu> En la mayorÃ­a de canales de Ubuntu se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
<JFo> yep, that one
<czajkowski> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-08-31
<salimane> anyone here for asian meeting ?
<lifeless> isn't it in 40 minutes or so?
<persia> yeah
<salimane> yep
<salimane> was just checking...
<elky> Oh. It's /that/ day.
 * elky is still at the office.
 * persia fails at time, and may be 2-3 minutes late
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> so who is chairing? bags not me.
<wers> hello :)
<elky> I'd rather not since I might have to flee to avoid being left waiting an hour for a bus.
<lifeless> flee! flee!
<selvam> Hi all, <amachu> is away , and he will not attend meeting today
<persia> selvam, Thanks.
 * persia hopes our leader will arrive soon
<czajkowski> you have a leader ?
<nigelb> chair :p
<lifeless> popey: if you're around, I have a feeling we will need more for quorateness
<persia> We have a secretary, to whom we delegate as much as possible.
<popey> *ping* popey appears
<czajkowski> soo that's how that works
 * czajkowski makes a mental note :)
<popey> you need the magic dust
<persia> So, I guess I end up with chair, for failing to log a proactive protest.
 * lifeless pats his resovoir
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 05:07. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lifeless> persia: thank you
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<persia> [TOPIC] Attendance check
<MootBot> New Topic:  Attendance check
<persia> prabhash: about?
<elky> o/]
<persia> wers: I saw you.
 * wers is present! :D
<persia> nisshh: about?
<popey> o/
<wers> hi persia
<persia> salimane: still here?
<persia> huayra, about?
<Vantrax> hi all, sorry im a few later
<Vantrax> er late
<salimane> yep :)
 * huayra present
<persia> OK.  So we'll do wers, salimane, huayra, in that order.
<wers> ok :)
<persia> [TOPIC] Membership application for Allan Caeg
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Allan Caeg
<persia> wers, Please paste your introductory text.
<wers> Hello. I'm Allan Caeg, a UX designer. My contributions include advocacy and design
<wers> I advocate FOSS through the Philippine Open Source Network. I organized 3 release parties so far
<wers> I'm also a part of the Ayatana-UX team. My work isn't limited to Ubuntu, though. I also work on GNOME Usability
<wers> I'm also the UX Advocate for Firefox
<wers> I've also recently become a part of the GNOME.Asia Committee
<elky> That's a lot.
<lifeless> wers: For clarity, in assessing Ubuntu membership we restrict ourselves to contributions directly to Ubuntu.
<wers> lifeless, thanks
<Vantrax> contributions that affect Ubuntu can be considered as secondary such as Gnome and Firefox, but in a limited capacity
<wers> I also do user support. 1,807 beans on ubuntuforums.org
<persia> wers, I'm not very familiar with Ayatana UX: how much of that ends up being directly targeting Ubuntu, and how much general improvement in upstream projects?
<wers> the UX advocates projects is pushed by the Ubuntu community, though
<lifeless> wers: http://design.canonical.com/2010/06/announcing-the-user-experience-advocates-project/ ?
<wers> lifeless, that's right
<Vantrax> Im unfortunately not familiar with UX at all
<wers> persia, it's quite new. I can say that it greatly influences Ubuntu's design direction
<wers> it's organized by mpt. he invited me to be a founding member
<wers> https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-ux
<Vantrax> ahh I tell a lie, i know about that
<Vantrax> one of sabfls pet projects
<wers> ahehe. he seems to love Ayatana
<elky> It's like the new compiz
<Vantrax> Yeah, he does.
<persia> wers, One of your testimonials indicates you took over some leadership activities for ubuntu-ph : could you share how that transition went, and what you would do differently, if you had to do it again?
<lifeless> its pretty central to crossing the chasm
<wers> persia, there's actually no transition. I just chose to step up and organize things. that's probably related to the 3 Ubuntu release parties that I organized so far
<wers> I'm also planning the one for 10.10
<persia> Ah, OK.  I misunderstood then.  Leading new stuff is always good (and different than transitions).
<persia> Anyone have more questions?
<popey> i do not.
<Vantrax> what made you decide to apply for Ubuntu membership?
<wers> Vantrax, I want to be more affiliated with the project because I believe in it. I think, it would give me a greater opportunity to advocate Ubuntu
<Vantrax> fair enough, just curious with your LP date at 2006
<wers> yep. been doing this for a while
<wers> just thought that it's time to formalize things a bit
<Vantrax> Im good persia
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Alan Caeg as an Ubuntu Member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Alan Caeg as an Ubuntu Member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 1 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<popey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1 : good history, good testimonials, broad scope of work
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<lifeless> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lifeless. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<persia> Dunno who the private vote is from, but even discounting it, that's enough.
<persia> Congratulations wers!
<wers> thanks persia!
<wers> thanks everyone! :D
<popey> I'm not needed if you have 5 am I?
<elky> you are if we keep going at this speed
<persia> popey, We have 4, but not since Vantrax arrived.  Thanks for helping.
<popey> ok
<popey> no
<nisshh> congratz wers :)
<popey> np i mean
<popey> congratulations wers
<wers> thanks nisshh ! :D
<Vantrax> I was expected to be a few min late:P
<wers> thanks popey ! :D
<persia> [TOPIC]  Membership application for Salimane Adjao Moustapha
<MootBot> New Topic:   Membership application for Salimane Adjao Moustapha
<persia> salimane, Could you please paste your introductory text?
<elky> Just a reminder everyone, this introductory text should be pre-written and you should just need to paste it in to your irc client; else we have a lot of idle time.
<salimane> I'm Beninese, living in Beijing, China. i'm a software engineer. related to ubuntu i just make people actually use/convert to ubuntu
<lifeless> I'll be going sharp on the hour too
 * Vantrax reminds everyone we need to talk about restaffing quickly too
<salimane> i maintain a blog to help new users get confortable on ubuntu when they try for the first time
<salimane> :)
<persia> salimane, Do you have any involvement with local teams, or other advocacy beyond your blog?
<elky> salimane, so you don't do bug work, forums, or anything?
<salimane> u tried every alpha/beta release to report bugs
<Vantrax> also no testimonials
<salimane> *i try
<persia> salimane, Have you also been involved with the testing team, using the ISO tracker?
<Vantrax> grand total of 7 bugs filed according to LP, are you trying to bug test another way?
<salimane> i've used iso tracker once before, but me i'm mostly concerned about people actually using it
<salimane> introduce it to people , organisations
<elky> I'm ready to vote if other board members are in favour of brevity.
<Vantrax> I am too
 * persia too
<popey> o/
<persia> lifeless, ?
<lifeless> mmm, sure
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Salimane Adjao Moustapha as an Ubuntu Member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Salimane Adjao Moustapha as an Ubuntu Member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<lifeless> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from lifeless. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<elky> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from elky. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<Vantrax> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Vantrax. 0 for, 2 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -2
<popey> -1 I'd like to see a more significant and sustained contribution
<MootBot> -1 received from popey. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
<persia> -1 : documented work in too few areas, not immediately obvious as "work in Ubuntu", no testimonials
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<salimane> :)
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -4
<elky> sorry salimane
<lifeless> I Like what you're doing, your blog has great stuff on it; some more connection with the active Ubuntu community would tip it over to awesome
<salimane> ok any suggestions on how to actually become a memeber
<Vantrax> Id like to encourage you to continue contributing and get further involved with your local ubuntu groups. Also to remember that you need to be active in the community, not just contributing
<persia> salimane, Sorry you wen7t confirmed this time.  Please continue to work on stuff: you may find some of the hints above useful to find folks with whom to work.  We hope to see you back before the board again.
<salimane> there is none actually
<lifeless> we have an assessment problem for things that are not visible - irc/forums/bugs-in-launchpad/isotracker-reports
<salimane> in beijing there is none
<huayra> salimane, keep contributing and engage locally with your team as much as you can
<Vantrax> lifeless: very true, but usually testimonials come in to support that
<persia> lifeless, Indeed, we do: some of that is mitigated by testimonials, but it's insufficient.
<salimane> yep i will :)
<Vantrax> salimane: that is another thing to remember, get people that are familiar with your contributions to write testimonials for you. See examples in some of the other applicants wiki pages from today
<Vantrax> salimane: I look forward to seeing you again in a few months with a bunch of people supporting you
<lifeless> I'm surprised there are no other ubuntu folk in bejing; its a pretty big city isn't it ?
<persia> There are other folk there, but perhaps because it's a big city, it's a small percentage.
<persia> Anyway, we've only 18 minutes left.
<persia> [TOPIC] Membership application for RubÃ©n Romero
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for RubÃ©n Romero
<lifeless> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/110/detail/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/110/detail/
<huayra> HI
<persia> huayra, Please paste your introductory text
<huayra> I did not get any cheerleaders today
<huayra> but have a write up
<huayra> so, prepare:
<huayra> =Intro and Bio=
<huayra> My name is RubÃ©n Romero. I am 29YO and a father. Live in Oslo, Norway and have used Ubuntu since the spring of 2005.
<huayra> I am an Ubuntu lover (and member) and I've been using GNU/Linux for 13 years or so.
<huayra> =Activities=
<huayra> Details can be seen in my wiki page <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/huayra> and LP page <https://launchpad.net/~huayra>. A short summary:
<huayra> Currently I am the Norwegian Contact Member, the driver and contributor to the SpreadUbuntu team and project, System Administrator for Ubuntu-EC and Web Infrastructure Admin for Ubuntu-NO as well as an ad-hoc resource for the community. I try to do as much Ubuntu promotion as I can by either organizing local activities, encouraging activities wherever I go (i.e. started the Icelandic team) or just trying to exchange experiences with o
<lifeless> salimane: ^ get in contact with the folk at http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/110/detail/ - they are the local Ubuntu group, and association with them will help your membership application
<huayra> ther teams (Danish Team, Berlin Team, Catalan Team) and get better inter-LoCo relations and try to make us cooperate beyond our geographical borders.
<huayra> In the past (and as much as I can in the present) I have done lots of things (most of them in Launchpad, but some of them directly by contact with the devs): From sending HAL patches to make your Nokia phone work and analizing USB output to help WebCam driver development. To creating marketing material and organizing Ubuntu specific events and getting sponsors for these as well as being a contact point for our community in general con
<huayra> ferences and venues.
<huayra> =My goals=
<huayra> As described in the wiki page, can be summarized ike this:
<huayra>  * Make SpreadUbuntu deliver Marketing material Kits to all LoCos worldwide
<huayra>  * Grow participation of Ubuntu users in the activities of the Norwegian LoCo by reaching out to new user groups (beyond the traditional FLOSS aware user or advanced IT user)
<huayra>  * Engage and coordinate inter-LoCo activities (specially within Ubuntu Nordic, but also beyond) to promote Ubuntu worldwide in a fun and uniformed way
<salimane> lifeless thanks, i will :)
<huayra> =Beyond Ubuntu=
<huayra> I believe in the Ubuntu spirit way beyond the space of our community:
<huayra>  * An example of this unortodox approach is promoting Ubuntu through CouchSurfing
<huayra>  * An example of this unortodox approach is promoting Ubuntu through CouchSurfing (which I am an active member of, is a way of Ubuntuizing the world one couch at a time) and to tell people about our software and community.
<huayra>  * I am also involved locally in the Oslo Linux Brigade, which is a group providing network services to groups that otherwise don't have access to ISP's or proper network infrastructure such as squatters and anarchists here in the city. We hold an open cafÃ© called Humla that we use sometimes as a venue for Ubuntu promotion (i.e. meetings or UGJ).
<huayra> Currently I am working with the 350.org Global Work Party (big event to be celebrated 10.10.10 with avail from the City council and concerts in the middle of town ) to make our Ubuntu 10.10 Maverik Meeerkat Release Rarty part of their event, thus reaching a much wider audience that we normally do. And rock really hard!
<huayra> =Misc=
<huayra> In the day I am Global Sales Executive for an Open Source company called Varnish Software that is the company behind the well renowed Varnish HTTP Accelerator. My role is both the one of a Sales man and a community catalizator for the VArnish community. Earlier I've worked with FLOSS products sales before and have even worked at Redpill Linpro, and Open Source centered consultancy company and Canonical's partner with the biggest prese
<huayra> nce in the Nordic market. So I've sold my share of Ubuntu training and services, as well.
<huayra> =Finalizing=
<huayra> I am a proud Ubuntu member and I intent to stay being so the next two years. It gives me the drive I need and it affirms also my commitment with the project. It's all about the small thing that mean something to you. Ubuntu is one of the biggest loves of my life. Simple as that.
<huayra> Thanks for your time :-)
 * huayra is sorry for the flooding...
<Vantrax> WOW, nice work huayra, great wall of text:P That is a hell of an intro
<persia> Generally, we're looking for 3-4 lines of text.
 * nigelb notes huayra has ubuntu member cloak
 * huayra is up for renewal
<Vantrax> ahh
<elky> You missed the clicky thing in the email?
 * Vantrax isnt used to seeing people up for renewal
<popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~huayra shows you're already a member of ~ubuntumembers
<lifeless> isn't renewal self administered ?
<popey> yes
<elky> Can we move on then?
<Vantrax> you can just click and say let me be there again
<huayra> really?
<popey> yup
<lifeless> Like, if you care enough to click on the link, you are renewed...
<huayra> oh myt
<huayra> oh my
 * Vantrax remembers that people are in theory ment to revisit rmb, but isnt done
<lifeless> huayra: thanks for dropping by; ciao.
<elky> huayra, uh, welcome back? :)
<popey> i believe nisshh has now arrived..
<huayra> ;) thx
<persia> [AGREED] RubÃ©n Romero is already a member, and should renew when LP prompts.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  RubÃ©n Romero is already a member, and should renew when LP prompts.
<nisshh> yes, im here
 * Vantrax cheers for huayra
<persia> [TOPIC] Anything else?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Anything else?
<popey> persia: nisshh
<huayra> thanks elky :)
<elky> persia, nisshh joined a few late
<persia> Ah, good.
<nisshh> i was afk, my fault
<elky> tick tock!
<persia> [TOPIC] Membership application for Ryan Macnish
<MootBot> New Topic:  Membership application for Ryan Macnish
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> my intro
<nisshh> my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RyanMacnish
<nisshh> 1 sec, im lagging
<nisshh> I applied for membership because i have been a user of and contributor to Ubuntu for a while now (nearly two years) and i thought it was about the right time for me. I have contributed to various projects, most notably the Ubuntu Manual Project, but also others including Quickly, Quickly Widgets and of course Ubuntu itself.
<nisshh> Other things i have done include bug triaging, new Ubuntu release testing and testing new versions of some applications. I have also written my own app called Pytask which is hosted on launchpad, it is similar to GTG although much simpler.
 * lifeless is ready to vote
<nisshh> I am also active on the Ubuntu Forums and on IRC, participate and help out wherever and whenever i can with the AU LoCo, and am planning to eventually get myself to a linux related event somewhere in Australia, whether it be linux.conf.au or something else. I also hope to get to UDS one day.
<nisshh> there
 * huayra has to admit that a renewal process made me think a lot and helped me get focus of what I want to achieve in my next membership cycle. The council should probably consider to have a review of members and at least ask for a write up?
<nisshh> thats it
<salimane> bye everybody, i enjoyed the small talk,  i'll be back though :)
 * Vantrax notes recommendations by Ben Humphrey and Rick Spencer.
<elky> huayra, thats almost 700 members to review...
<nisshh> Vantrax: yes, im more prepared this time :)
<Vantrax> huayra: I think that is a good idea, but possibly impractical:P
<persia> nisshh, Welcome back.  What's most different since we saw you last?
<nisshh> persia: well, one, im actually prepared this time
<persia> huats, Vantrax: could we stick to topic?  Some are short on time (sorry)
<nisshh> and i have also done some more bug triaging
<huayra> we should probably at least encourage people to do it for themselves ;) Thx for your time and sorry for the confusion.
<nisshh> and some more work on both Ubuntu Manuals
<Vantrax> and more testimonials
<nisshh> but iv also been busy with TAFE work, so not alot
<nisshh> yes Vantrax :)
<elky> Ready to vote.
<Vantrax> i am
<popey> o/
 * vish cheers for nisshh 
 * nisshh crosses his fingers
 * elky prods persia
<persia> Any questions not answered last meeting that don't have answers in the wiki update?  Anyone?
<Vantrax> hiya popey, did you have something to say, or just waving:P
<persia> lifeless?
<lifeless> persia: ?
<persia> Any more questions?
<elky> I'm ready to vote.
<lifeless> 22:49  * lifeless is ready to vote
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Ryan MacNish as an Ubuntu member
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Ryan MacNish as an Ubuntu member.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> lifeless, Sorry.  missed that (so early)
<lifeless> persia: de nada
<popey> +1 I am impressed that you're focussing on a small number of specific projects and doing them well.
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<lifeless> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lifeless. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<Vantrax> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Vantrax> glad you came back
<elky> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from elky. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<elky> Sorry, was packing bag
<nisshh> woo!
 * elky flees
<persia> nisshh, Congratulations.
<persia> elky, Have a good night
<Vantrax> Well done
<Vantrax> see you elky
<nisshh> thanks guys and girls :)
<vish> nisshh: wers: congrats! :)
<wers> congrats nisshh ! :D
<wers> thanks vish ! :)
<nisshh> thanks wers
<nisshh> thanks vish
<popey> thanks everyone!
<persia> OK.  That7s about it.
<persia> Thanks popey for stepping in.
<popey> np
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:55.
<Vantrax> as a side note
<wers> thanks again! :)
<Vantrax> im putting the request out for 2 more in the asian timezones and 3 in the pacific
<Vantrax> based on our current attendance that should give us good coverage for the meetings
<persia> Hrm?
<persia> We don't need 5 more folks, really.
 * nigelb notes qorum would go higher.
<persia> Plus, where we really need folks is UTC+5:30, not so much easterly.
<Vantrax> we do if we have a meeting 1 hours earlier, and 2 later.
<persia> yeah, that would be bad.
<Vantrax> persia/nigelb no change to quorum
<persia> 2 later is still questionable for "evening" in +5:30
<Vantrax> sabfl and CC approved it
 * persia grumbles, but doesn't have the time to fix this now.  more pacific people just fails to help at all
<Vantrax> yeah, would need to be 3 hours wouldnt it
<Vantrax> persia: thats the point of discussing it
<Vantrax> we can discuss on list i think
<persia> That would probably be better.  We now have two *different* solutions approved by the CC :)
<nigelb> heh, now that confusing.
<lifeless> lets go for three
<nigelb> lol
<persia> extra points?
<Vantrax> yeah:P The current recommendation is to expand the team, run two meetings each with a quorum of 4
<nigelb> so you need 1 more or 3 more to make it even.
<persia> That was the last one as well, but the last one called for more +5:30 folks, and no more pacific folks (as we have too many).
<persia> Anyway, on-list.  Our hour is up.
<Vantrax> hrm, yes
<Vantrax> to the list:P
<costales> Hi! I have a tecnical problem with my wiki. How could help me?
<ogra> NCommander, ??
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * GrueMaster yawns
<dyfet> groans
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100831
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100831
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to unbreak apport retracer (c/o)
<NCommander> c/o
<ogra> hey
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to discuss with linaro and asac on improved-generic-subarch-support
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to discuss with linaro and asac on improved-generic-subarch-support
<ogra> roll call perhaps ?
<NCommander> co
<ogra> dont always rush so fast :)
<davidm> G'day
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to clean out the stale dove alternates
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to clean out the stale dove alternates
<NCommander> Done.
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to smoke test ubuntu-server dove alternates
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to smoke test ubuntu-server dove alternates
<NCommander> c/o
<ogra> NCommander, the ww dir on antimony still looks really odd
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to flush antimony's expired images
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to flush antimony's expired images
<ogra> *www
<NCommander> postponed until after beta
<NCommander> ogra: ogra in what way?
<ogra> err, not the www one, the scratch one
<NCommander> ogra: scratch needs a flush handle attached to it :-)
<ogra> ogra@antimony:~$ ls /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/ubuntu-netbook/
<ogra> daily-live  ports_daily  ports_daily-live  ports_daily-preinstalled  ports_preinstalled  ports_preinstalled-live
<NCommander> ogra: I'll investigate
<NCommander> [topic] standing items
<MootBot> New Topic:  standing items
<ogra> NCommander, also how is the work going with adding the manifest files for preinstalled builds ?
<ogra> i know GrueMaster is waiting for that eagerly
<NCommander> ogra: low enough on my TDOD that I won't hold your breath
<ogra> (you said you'd care for it last meeting)
<GrueMaster> yes.
<NCommander> Someone else is going to have to fix it, or its going to have to wait
<ogra> hmm, you sounded differently last week, ok
<NCommander> I have no way of testing cdimage changes locally, and I rather not subject antimony to coding directly on it
 * ogra does that ... ist bzr, you can roll back if your test build doesnt succeed
<ogra> *it's
<ogra> just dont do it during a milestone
<NCommander> ogra: also, working on antimony from here requires 1-2 minuts to type a command due to lag
<ogra> oh, its his fault ?
<NCommander> (sometimes its slightly better)
<ogra> well
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<GrueMaster> Sure, blame it on the aussie.
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogra> persia, how is the work on your last two items going ? did you polish the spirals ?
<persia> I haven't tried a run since Thursday, which crashed fairly badly.  I'm hoping to get back to it in the next day or two (but have some testing to do first)
<ogra> k, probably re-target the items then
<persia> I'll do that now.
<ogra> great
<persia> The other one I can do for beta, if I prioritise it (and I will)
<ogra> k
<NCommander> [link] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-mobile-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<ogra> NCommander, bug 513728 ??
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 513728 in erlang (Ubuntu) "[arm] needs porting to thumb2" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/513728
<ogra> do you still plan to do that ?
<NCommander> No.
<NCommander> No time.
<ogra> unassign it then :)
<NCommander> k
<ogra> bug 435046 is something i thought was solved long ago
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435046 in linux-mvl-dove (Ubuntu) "Ethernet port on the dove sometimes changes MAC addresses" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435046
<persia> ogra, I can't retarget it, but there's lots else TODO, and assigned to folks with no-time-before-beta, so I'm fairly confident it will move.
<NCommander> it was solved by ignoring it
<ogra> NCommander, there are a bunch of other thumb2 bugs assigned to you it seems
<GrueMaster> I haven't seen it in a while.  My system is assigned an IP from the dhcp server based on mac addr.
<ogra> persia, you should be able to re-target the sigle items on the whiteboard
<ogra> GrueMaster, NCommander, well, then someone should close it :)
<NCommander> can I move on?
<persia> ogra, That spec isn't organised like that :)
<ogra> heh, ok
<ogra> NCommander, yup
<ogra> please everybody check that list and see if the bugs you are assigned to are still valid
<ogra> ...
<NCommander> lag sucks
<NCommander> (as in latency, not lag the enginneer)
<lag> :0
<NCommander> (sorry lag)
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<lag>  * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    * MISC     : Now we have both mvl-dove branch in lucid and maverick, though it's moved straight
<lag>                 from lucid to maverick (so it's 2.6.32 based) - thanks Tim/Brad/Andy Leann for this
<lag>    * MISC     : Received LSP 5.3.3 from Marvell, 23 patches, some are minor feature change and do not
<lag>                 qualify as SRU, will send my preliminary review out soon
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>    * Nothing new this week
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * REBASE   : Updated to TI OMAP4 2.6.35 based kernel release, 2.6.35-903.8 was uploaded
<lag>    * PATCH    : B613855 BB XM always boots with MMC as read-only due to incorrect GPIO settings
<lag>    * ON GOING : B608266 fix submitted and accepted - still waiting for mobile team to test
<lag>    * ON GOING : B563650 problem is not related to DPMS, but with VT driver entering power saving mode
<lag>    * NEW      : B624652 new Panda version (ES2.0) needs a working bootloader
<ogra> bug 613855 should be fixed, no ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613855 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "omap3 beagle XM MMC card always comes up readonly" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613855
<ogra> yeah, says fix released
<GrueMaster> And it works here.
<lag> When was that marked fixed released?
<lag> Hold ot
<ogra> bug 624652 is only paperwork, i think rsalveti has a working x-loader and the linaro omap4 u-boot shoudl work too
<lag> on*
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 624652 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu) "Panda ES2.0: No working bootloader" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624652
<lag> That's why it's marked as PATCH
<ogra> lag, it was marked fix released when the upload happened :)
<lag> ogra: It still needs to be done
 * ogra wonders which bug we are currently talking about :)
<rsalveti> ogra: yep, just waiting the 1gb patch to get accepted at gitorious tree
<lag> ogra: The paperwork ..
<rsalveti> and then we can just update the package
<ogra> lag, ah, yeah
<rsalveti> so it can be used by default for es2.0
<lag> Good stuff
<rsalveti> but also noticed they created a different patch for es2.0 8 layers :-(
<lag> Let me know when it's fixed
<ogra> rsajdok, did you test with the linaro u-boot ?
<rsalveti> so will follow that later on to understand why
<ogra> on es2
<rsalveti> ogra: not yet
<ogra> k
<rsalveti> ogra: it's on my todo list, also a request from sakoman
<ogra> we'll need to notify jcrigby if we see issues
<rsalveti> sure
<lag> Now who has tab issues
<rsalveti> sakoman is looking forward to our test results
<ogra> no hurry though
<rsalveti> ok
<ogra> its post beta stuff ... if we know during next week thats fine i guess
<lag> I need to speak to sakoman
<rsalveti> sure, np
<ogra> lag, we wont stop you :)
<lag> ogra: Let me know when you have his attention
<lag> ;)
<ogra> he is in #ubuntu-arm, feel free to do it yourself ;)
<NCommander> can I move on?
<lag> ..
<ogra> ++
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Images are once again booting.
<ogra> \o/
<ogra> the session should be fine too now
<GrueMaster> But I am now seeing an odd behavior.  After oem-config runs, the system comes up ok.  But if I reboot, the system hangs.
<rsalveti> cool :-)
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: beagle? panda?
<GrueMaster> Just noticed this late in the evening, and haven't had a chance to explore it.
<lag> GrueMaster: I have the opposite problem
<GrueMaster> Beagle & Panda.
<NCommander> GrueMaster: how ar ethings w/ dove?
<ogra> panda works fine here since we switched u-boot
<lag> Which uboot are we now using?
<rsalveti> well, didn't test with today's image, but tested yesterday on beagle and panda
<lag> When was the switch?
<ogra> lag, linaros for omap4
<GrueMaster> My BeagleXM hangs during boot before oem-config runs, with an alsa-utils error.  Same sd card w/o changes works fine on Beagle.
<rsalveti> worked fine on both
<ogra> lag, before beta freeze
<lag> Can someone send me a copy?
<ogra> lag, of what ?
<rsalveti> lag: grab from the package
<lag> The u-boot.bin you're using
<lag> k
<rsalveti> or from the latest image :-)
<ogra> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/u-boot-linaro/2010.06-695-gbd23130-linaro-0ubuntu1
<lag> Thanks
<GrueMaster> Dove fails to load the desktop/installer.  hangs in X w/ background.  I believe it may be trying to load the 3D stuff (clutter).  Will explore today.
 * ogra wonders if we should switch omap3 too to not have to maintain the same stuff twice 
<ogra> GrueMaster, thats very likely since it doesnt use jasper
 * NCommander rips his hair out.
<ogra> and the netbook images have no concept of switching the session at all
<NCommander> ogra: ok, how do I get it to use 2D launcher?
<ogra> so if you dont use jasper you are doomed to use unity
<ogra> NCommander, look at the jasper-initramfs code
<GrueMaster> ogra: Shouldn't that be added to the netbook-efl-settings postinstall script or something?
<ogra> GrueMaster, no
<rsalveti> ogra: I think we should, it works fine
<ogra> GrueMaster, then it would switch back and forth depending on the order if the settings packages being installed
<ogra> s/if//
<ogra> i discussed that several times with didrocks, there is no proper way to do it
<GrueMaster> Well, it should be somewhere in the image build process, and not some hackery in the preboot scripts.
<ogra> it *doesnt* work if you have both installed
<persia> "doomed to use unity" doesn't seem right.  Can we avoid that phrasing?
<ogra> persia, i'm trying to ... :P
<ogra> GrueMaster, all you can do is to select the right session at gdm
<GrueMaster> Doesn't help for the live image.
<ogra> ubuntu-netbook had a fallback concept in the past
<NCommander> Whoever decided that we needed a script to decide how Unity is loaded (or not loaded) has in inhertantly broken design
<ogra> but the desktoip team decided it would be bad to have that if the UIs dont lkook the same
<NCommander> It needs to work automatically, or we need two seeds.
<ogra> NCommander, talk to didrocks
<ogra> or the desktop team in general
 * ogra had the discussion several times since before the sprint ... all they agreed on was a popup message telling you that you have to switch the session manually
<ogra> in case unity comes up with no GL support
<GrueMaster> Which we don't even have that yet.
<ogra> didrocks has a task for it
<NCommander> can I move on?
<ogra> yes
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<NCommander> Nothing to report on my end.
<dyfet> we got telepathy-glib unblocked, though there were some questions remaining
<ogra> dyfet, how goes commons-daemon ?
<dyfet> but we were as noted able to get images to build :).  And yes, I got commons-daemon to build
<ogra> yes, i know i uploaded the telepathy-glib workaround ....
 * persia filed a sync request last week for commons-daemon
<dyfet> and kdebindings is unblocked too
<dyfet> But I found a new problem effecting rebuilds
<dyfet> automoc now crashes for me
<dyfet> I documented it last night
<ogra> dyfet, bug 623979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623979 in telepathy-glib (Ubuntu) "telepathy-glib fails to build on armel due to two unsuccessfull selftests" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623979
<ogra> could you take care for talking to upstream about it ?
<ogra> seb128 asked that upstream fixes it properly
<dyfet> I no longer have the self tests fail
<ogra> can you read the bug first ?
<Riddell> dyfet: a new problem in kdebindings?
<dyfet> we need to figure out why it happens on your box and the porters box, ogra
<dyfet> (still happens)
<dyfet> Riddell: no, a problem with automoc
<dyfet> (new problem)
<ogra> dyfet, well, then research it, you have access to the porter box
<dyfet> okay, fair enough
<Riddell> dyfet: it crashes during build?
<dyfet> automoc fails when used to build other packages
<Riddell> hum
<dyfet> so its blocking rebuilding other kde packages in universe for maverick
<dyfet> but if NCommander needs to move forward, we can discuss after the meeting
<NCommander> Lets move forward
<NCommander> [action] dyfet and Riddell to cooridinate on automoc
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dyfet and Riddell to cooridinate on automoc
<dyfet> agreed
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> they exist
<NCommander> dove ones are broken. Will work with ogra on how we can force the session to 2D only on dove
<ogra> omap should be fine
 * NCommander is very annoyed that the autodetection was removed
<NCommander> dove server ones should also be fine.
<ogra> NCommander, unity is written from scratch
<ogra> nothing was "removed" :)
<NCommander> It was there, then it wasn't there
<NCommander> That sure sounds like the definition of removed
<ogra> and as i said above, desktop team a) refuses to have a differently looking 2D fallback ... and b) session handling is all in gdm now
<persia> Rather, the folks that implemented the netbook solution didn't have time to port it to unity for maverick, and nobody else picked up the work.
<persia> ogra: a) isn't true: it's a time availability thing.
<ogra> persia, as far as i understood its not wanted
<ogra> at least thats what i was told several times now
<persia> Not considered critical != not wanted.
<ogra> but as i said, feel free to talk to them yourself
<persia> Or we've received different information.
 * persia did, a few times, or wouldn't be commenting
<ogra> funny that we did get different info then
<NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
 * ogra will be away today after the meeting
<ogra> just FYI
<persia> A couple things.
<persia> 1) The #ubuntu-mobile channel is no more (it was entirely unused, as far as I could tell)
<persia> 2) kubuntu-mobile images are available for omap3, and the kubuntu-mobile folks could use help testing, if anyone has hardware/time.
<ogra> wohoo !
<GrueMaster> I have been trying the kubuntu-mobile images as time allows.
<ian_brasil__> GrueMaster: with success?
<GrueMaster> Not yet.  Oem-config crashed, but I had to move back to our images due to XM issues.
<ogra> ian_brasil__, i doubt normal beagles will be great for testing them (256M only)
<GrueMaster> Will track it down today.
<ogra> you should make clear to recommend to use them only on XM
 * ogra doubts kubuntu will be less RAM hungry than ubuntu-netbook here
<ian_brasil__> ogra: we work on this for Natty
<ogra> well, for natty you will have the XM in production out there, 512M should be fine for either of the images
<ogra> the larger community will only have beagle Cx boards during maverick though ... thats likely to have OOM issues
<persia> There's also the requirement for accelerated graphics...
<ian_brasil__> regarding the images ...we want to file MIR bugs for packages currently in universe which  should be in the image ...these are kubuntu-mobile-default-settings , plasma-mobile and kdepim-mobile..rbelem offered to maintain them and riddell/ScottK will sponsor them.
<ogra> oh, there is ?
<ogra> we dont have any drivers in the archive
 * ogra thought kubuntu-mobile can run without 3D accel
<persia> It can, but ...
<persia> ian_brasil__, I thought there already was MIR for plasma-mobile and kubuntu-mobile-default-settings.
<ian_brasil__> yes..i am keeping people in the loop
<persia> OK.  I feared I'd lost track :)
<Riddell> I was expecting plasma-mobile and kubuntu-mobile-default-settings to remain in universe this cycle
<persia> Riddell, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/626543 has some of the discussion of what is required if the MIRs are not completed.  ScottK suggested a few MIRs might be less invasive.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 626543 in kubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "kubuntu-mobile should be built against universe" [Undecided,New]
<persia> Doesn't much matter which approach is taken, really.
<ian_brasil__> the requirement for main is maintained and supported ..since we have both maybe main is ok since it makes cdimage happier
<ogra> it surely makes NCommander happier :)
<Riddell> mm yes, I remember
<ogra> since he fiddles with the build scripts for it
<persia> ian_brasil__, cdimage works against universe, but we incorrectly assumed that we could have one seed collection handle both universe and main images.
<ogra> but iirc you can build images from universe
<ogra> xubuntu does that all the time
<persia> ogra, Only with a universe seed.
<ogra> ah
<persia> (and requires LP changes, etc.)
<ian_brasil__> ogra: you cannot mix seeds
 * ogra didnt know that, i never built images from universe ... 
<NCommander> persia: ?, what was the issue with universe images?
<NCommander> It built fine with packages from universe
<persia> ogra, We all just discovered it in the past couple days.
<ogra> luckily edubuntu decided to do that after i left :)
<persia> NCommander, ogre-model on task generation
<persia> Oh, and ogre-model on metapackage build.
<NCommander> I'm afraid I might be missing something
<ogra> NCommander, its like an onion you know :)
<persia> ogra, edubuntu wouldn't be affected, as it was a clean transition: the issue is that kubuntu can't have *both* main and universe images.  needs two seed collections.
<ogra> persia, yeah, understood
<ogra> me points out that we're over time
<ogra> not sure there is another meeting now though
<persia> Anyway, two ways to sort it: the MIR folk and the cdimage folk can argue about who wants less inconvenience.  If ian_brasil__ and rbelem keep up the interest they've shown the last 2 cycles, I don't think main ought be an issue.
<persia> Probably.
 * persia stops
<ogra> move to #ubuntu-arm ;)
<ogra> NCommander, kill it !
<davidm> NCommander, ???
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:03.
 * NCommander is dealing with a serious internet blink blink blink issue tonight
<rsajdok> /quiy
 * ari-tczew is going for dinner, then be ready for meeting.
<costales> Hi!
<costales> Who can I help me with a wiki.ubuntu.com bug?
<LjL> costales: perhaps better to ask in #ubuntu-doc
<costales> thanks ;) LjL
<leoquant> costales your wiki page is "gone"?
<costales> yes
<costales> :(
<costales> I can't revert the version
<leoquant> strange, it was up and running
<costales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/costales?action=info
<costales> I can't revert to rev. 5621
<leoquant> ah
<costales> I'm in #ubuntu-doc
<costales> :S
<leoquant> good luck there!
<costales> :)
<costales> thanks!
 * persia peers about
<soren> o/
<persia> OK.  That's two.  Need a couple more...
<persia> soren: Up for being chair this week?
<ari-tczew> o/
<ari-tczew> again there are not enough people for meeting?
<angelabad> ops,
<soren> persia: sorry, no. I know I'll be interrupted and I have to leave early.
<soren> persia: There's a reason I want this meeting moved. :)
<persia> cody-somerville: about?
<cody-somerville> Yup
<persia> geser seems away just now.  stgraber sends apologies.  nixternal is patiently waiting for new member selection, and the last of us is busy preparing beta.
<persia> cody-somerville: Up for chairing?
<soren> Are we even quorate?
<persia> (note that we're still short one: my preference is to wait a bit for geser, unless I missed something)
<persia> soren: We could be, if we were willing to delay beta
<cody-somerville> persia, you're much more effective at it
<soren> *shrug* :)
<ari-tczew> ...
<persia> cody-somerville: I'm good during the meeting.  I'm lousy afterwards.  Want to share?
<cody-somerville> persia, No... but I will ;)
<cody-somerville> ari-tczew, *agian*... we're almost always quorate.
<persia> cody-somerville: Great!
 * cody-somerville probably should have put a question mark after the '*again*'.
<persia> So let's give geser another few minutes (until :15), and then interrupt as required to move on.
<ari-tczew> aha
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi should be around on this meeting?
<ari-tczew> or is it not necessary?
<persia> ari-tczew: Not necessary.
<persia> cjwatson, Apologies, but we're not quorate without you, if you can spare some time.
<ari-tczew> can I ask what is it? Review Marco Rodrigues participation in Ubuntu Development
<ari-tczew> who is around from DMB? persia, cody-somerville?
<persia> and soren.
 * soren too
<ari-tczew> but soren wrote that he have to go
<soren> Early. Not immediately.
<soren> ~40 minutes from now.
<ari-tczew> aha
<persia> ari-tczew, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-January/003067.html is the other side of the agenda item you asked about.
<ari-tczew> MOTU council was replaced by DMB right?
<soren> Sort of.
<persia> Not precisely, but many of the functions of the MC are now administered by the DMB
<soren> ...and the MC does not exist anmore.
<soren> anymore.
<soren> DMB does stuff the MC did not, and the MC did stuff the DMB does not.
<persia> rather, at this time (it may exist in the future, but there aren't currently any efforts to create it)
<persia> OK.  We're running out of time, and still have no quorum.  I'll run through a non-quoarate meeting.
<persia> Apologies to ari-tczew, angelabad, Kmos
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:25. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<ari-tczew> so what's going on now?
<ari-tczew> application won't be reviewed?
<persia> [TOPIC] Review of Action Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of Action Items
<persia> mathiaz to transfer ownership of ~ubuntu-server-dev to the DMB
<persia> DONE
<persia> persia to call for remaining votes for coolbhavi's application
<persia> DONE : still pending one vote, I'll repeat the action, and ensure I have the vote within the next fortnight.
<persia> cjwatson to initiate discussion of different meeting times[
<persia> DONE : current candidate is rotating meetings 12:00/19:00 UTC Mondays, but not yet confirmed by a quorum of the DMB.
<persia> [TOPIC] Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  Applications
<persia> We're unquorate, so cannot take any decisions: all applications will be postponed until the next meeting (again, apologies)
<ari-tczew> when is next meeting?
<persia> September 13th or 14th.  We're more likely to be quorate the 13th, but might do the 14th to preserve continuity.  We'll certainly let folks know RSN.
<persia> [TOPIC] Anything else?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Anything else?
<angelabad> ops, I think I will be impossible to be in that meeting
<persia> angelabad, Sorry.  We'll try to figure something out.
<persia> OK.  Nothing else.
<angelabad> persia, ok
<ari-tczew> I have very good lucky!
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:30.
<persia> Fastest meeting ever, but somehow unsatisfying :(
<angelabad> :-(
<ari-tczew> yea, like it
<ari-tczew> persia, I see that Marco Rodrigues is not in any important team.
<ari-tczew> e.g. he is not in MOTU
<persia> Yes?
<ari-tczew> ok, not my case
 * persia isn't sure how this is relevant, nor why it belongs in -meeting when the meeting is concluded.
<ari-tczew> ok, going out to take relax. perhaps we will got full meeting in future. regards!
<cjwatson> argh.  sorry, I was on the phone and missed this.
 * geser is sorry for being late
<angelabad> Now there is quorum?
<persia> Why so there is, but only for ~20 minutes.
<angelabad> oh! ari-tczew is gone
<persia> And unfortunately, our first up is ari-tczew, who left :(
<persia> Any opinions?  Shall I re-open the meeting to look at (2) and (3) (if we can conclude in 20 minutes)?
<cody-somerville> I have to go very soon and I think soren does as well.
<persia> That's what I thought.
<persia> geser, cjwatson: Thanks for stopping by, but I think we can't finish within our timeslot.
<cjwatson> sorry again
<cjwatson> (though I did warn by mail that I probably wouldn't be able to make it due to beta prep; I mention this purely for the record since the dmb list is private)
<persia> cjwatson, Indeed.  That's why you didn't get pinged until :15, as it was felt you were busy.
<persia> (see comment at :07 if you're very curious)
<JFo> o/
<lag> \o
<smb> \o
<cking> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<kamal> o/
<JFo> nice dance moves everyone
 * ogasawara waves
<ogasawara> #startmeeting
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is ogasawara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<ogasawara> #
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] ARM Status (lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (lag)
<manjo> \0
<lag>  * Marvel (mvl-dove)
<lag>    * MISC     : Now we have both mvl-dove branch in lucid and maverick, though it's moved straight
<lag>                 from lucid to maverick (so it's 2.6.32 based) - thanks Tim/Brad/Andy Leann for this
<lag>    * MISC     : Received LSP 5.3.3 from Marvell, 23 patches, some are minor feature change and do not
<lag>                 qualify as SRU, will send my preliminary review out soon
<lag>  * Freescale (fsl-imx51)
<lag>    * Nothing new this week
<lag>  * Texas Instruments (ti-omap)
<lag>    * REBASE   : Updated to TI OMAP4 2.6.35 based kernel release, 2.6.35-903.8 was uploaded
<lag>    * PATCH    : B613855 BB XM always boots with MMC as read-only due to incorrect GPIO settings
<lag>    * ON GOING : B608266 fix submitted and accepted - still waiting for mobile team to test
<lag>    * ON GOING : B563650 problem is not related to DPMS, but with VT driver entering power saving mode
<lag>    * NEW      : B624652 new Panda version (ES2.0) needs a working bootloader
<lag> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (6 bugs, 9 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Beta Milestoned Bugs (12 across all packages (down 19)) ====
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (142 across all packages (up 14)) ====
<JFo>  * 12 linux kernel bugs (down 5)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 3 linux-mvl-dove bugs (up 1)
<JFo>  * 1 linux-ti-omap bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 13 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:118 (down 1) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> Nothing to report... yet
<JFo> much coming soonish
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<cking> no change (been on vacation)
<ogasawara> ack
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Some armel udebs were accidentally removed from the archive over the weekend.  As a result, it was easiest to just upload a 2.6.35-19.28 kernel to re-generate the missing udebs.  There is no real change in code.
<ogasawara> Beta Freeze is in effect as the Maverick Beta release is this Thurs Sept 2nd.  That means no kernel uploads without the approval of the release team until after the Beta release.  Also, keep in mind that Kernel Freeze is Thurs Sept 16th, ie ~2weeks away.  Remember after Kernel Freeze, we transition to our SRU policy in order to apply patches.
<ogasawara> We are above our Beta burn down chart's trend line.  I'll be re-targetting beta work items to the final release milestone tomorrow.  Looking ahead towards our final release, we need to start closing out all remaining open work items to ensure we stay below the overall burn down chart.
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-10.10-beta.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick#Milestone ubuntu-10.10-beta
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> |                   || Upd./Sec.     || Proposed      || TiP || Verified    ||
<smb> || Dapper: Kernel    || 2.6.15-55.87  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Hardy:  Kernel    || 2.6.24-28.77  || (pending)     ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Jaunty: Kernel    || 2.6.28-19.64  ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || Karmic: Kernel    || 2.6.31-22.63  || 2.6.31-22.64  ||   7 ||  0/ 4       ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.31-214.30 || 2.6.31-214.31 ||   7 ||  0/ 4       ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-112.28 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.31-307.17 || 2.6.31-307.18 ||   7 ||  0/ 4       ||
<smb> || Lucid:  Kernel    || 2.6.32-24.42  || (pending)     ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       LBM       || 2.6.32-24.17  || (pending)     ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       mvl-dove  || 2.6.32-209.25 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       fsl-imx51 || 2.6.31-608.19 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ti-omap   || 2.6.33-502.10 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> || =       ec2       || 2.6.32-308.15 ||               ||     ||             ||
<smb> Lucid 2.6.32-24.42 has moved to updates just today. Uploaded 2.6.32-25.43 which contains the accumulated upstream stable releases until 2.6.32.21 but currently excludes the drm portions.
<smb> We are in the process to collect those drm patches since the end of 2.6.33.y
<smb> that look good for stable backports.
<smb> Rebased uploads for Lucid-ec2 and Lucid-mvl-dove will follow shortly.
<smb> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 368 Maverick Bugs (up 44)
<JFo> 958 Lucid Bugs (up 43)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 178 maverick bugs (up 20)
<JFo>   * 162 lucid bugs (up 3: to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 43 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 7 karmic bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 4 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bug (down 1)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 167 lucid bugs (up 11)
<JFo>   * 37 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 18 jaunty bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 3 hardy bugs (up 1)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 4 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Next week's bug day will be focused on bugs in the Triaged state. We will work through getting them tagged with the appropriate subsystem and make sure that the ones that need to be looked at more closely are tagged appropriately. We will continue to have the Team Bug Day to address the Top 50 list as half days on Friday and Monday. Reviewers, please take a look at your needs-review lists and help us keep the process moving. Please also take owner
<JFo> ship of your bugs as you work them so we can get them fixed or otherwise off the list. There are several subsystems owned by all that need to be reviewed for inclusion in our top 50 list.
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Triage Status (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Triage Status (JFo)
<JFo> I have not taken the time this week to work with the kernel bug triagers, but I hope to do so this coming week.
<JFo> I've been, and will need to continue, working on work items so that they are being closed out.
<JFo> There is much work being done, but some of them have required more than I was prepared for.
<JFo> The Triage Sumit will be on the 11th. I'm sending out e-mail on it today.
<ogasawara> JFo: if there are non-critical work items that you need to postpone, go ahead and do so.
<JFo> had planned to do that yesterday
<JFo> will do
<JFo> going through those today
<JFo> ..
<ogasawara> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<ogasawara> I figured today's meeting would be rather short.
<ogasawara> So if there's nothing else . . .
<ogasawara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:11.
<JFo> thanks ogasawara
<cking> thanks ogasawara
<smb> thanks ogasawara
<kamal> ogasawara: thanks
<kirkland> o/
<SpamapS> \@
<JFo> nice hair SpamapS
<SpamapS> I call it "eu-de-toilet-swirly-nuveau"
<hallyn> \o
<mathiaz> o/
<ttx> ~o{
<hallyn> so unless Daviey's connection has improved, i guess i'm up today
<ttx> SpamapS: I see your French did not improve yet
<SpamapS> ttx: non
<Daviey> o/
<SpamapS> mon Frances c'est merde
<jiboumans> bon jour
<Daviey> thanks hallyn
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
 * mathiaz suggests to run the meeting in french
<zul> afternoon
<ttx> mathiaz: that's the only way for them to improve.
<jiboumans> oui! # pronounced 'weh'
<hallyn> laaten we het in vlaams doen
<jiboumans> hallyn: goed plan sjefke!
<zul> le purr
<zul> le meow
<hallyn> (think we've not heard from kirkland yet)
<jjohansen> \o
<SpamapS> tabernac!
<smoser> \0
<hggdh> LOL
<hallyn> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is hallyn.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<hallyn> SpamapS to submit rubygems change proposal as Important bug in Debian and CC ubuntu-devel
<hallyn> done, right?
<SpamapS> submitted, discussion had, concensus reached...
<SpamapS> rubygems 1.8 will not be changed
<SpamapS> 1.9.1 is being merged into ruby 1.9
<SpamapS> and will put gems in...... drum roll please
<SpamapS> /usr/local/bin!
<jiboumans> w00tz
<SpamapS> this is huge
<jiboumans> <------------ this big ------------>
<SpamapS> ^^ indeed
<smoser> hooray.
<ttx> Congrats to SpamapS for passing his first consensus
<hallyn> that was on the order of years right?
<Daviey> three cheers for awesomeness
 * SpamapS will learn to spell it next. :)
<ttx> I'd be so happy if only I didn't hate Ruby.
<Daviey> hurding cats deserves praise :)
<SpamapS> I cann't take credit here hto..
<SpamapS> Lucas Nussbaum was huge in this
<hallyn> cool.  moving on
<SpamapS> I think we just brought the sway of the ruby community at the right time.
<hallyn> jjohansen to review bug 493156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 493156 in iotop (Ubuntu) "Please enable CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/493156
<hallyn> (sorry, didn't mean to interrupt any revelry)
<jjohansen> hrmm, I built test kernels with that but haven't submitted for sru yet
<SpamapS> hallyn: no we're done. :)
<jiboumans> jjohansen: sweet.. i've actually run into a problem last week where exactly that would have let me diagnose it
<hallyn> is there any controversy over enabling them?  or is simply asking for sru the next step?
<jjohansen> It simply asking for SRU and providing tests, showing that it works
<jjohansen> I need to attach the test kernels so we can get some people to pile on and claim it works for them ...
<hallyn> [ACTION] jjohansen to provide tests for bug 582963 and request SRU
<hallyn> then?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to provide tests for bug 582963 and request SRU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in Ubuntu Server papercuts "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<hallyn> jjohansen: ^  is that ok?
<hallyn> (mootbot keeps PMing me, i think it's stalking me)
<jjohansen> yep,
<hallyn> moving on then
<hallyn> zul to review papercut status of bug 582963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 582963 in Ubuntu Server papercuts "SSL pass phrase dialog can't read input" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/582963
<zul> done...
<hallyn> zul: and it's not a papercut?
<zul> hallyn: its in apache right now
<hallyn> k
<hallyn> ttx to make burnup charts available to people who want them
<ttx> Done @ http://people.canonical.com/~ttx/current-milestone-progress.svg & refreshed hourly
<hggdh> zul: there is a side effect of the SSL bug: bug 627142
<jiboumans> ttx++
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 627142 in apache2 (Ubuntu) "Apache2 init.d script runs 'stty sane', which will fail on script runs" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627142
<zul> hggdh: yeah im thinking of reverting it
<hallyn> hm, what do you do with the papercut if you revert the fix?
<ttx> hallyn: the papercut cycle is over anyway
<hallyn> ok :)
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<jiboumans> beta cycle is winding down (ends this thursday)
<jiboumans> we're mostly on track with our blueprints; small postpones are expected, but nothing major
<jiboumans> please note that iso testing is coming up soon!
<jiboumans> ttx and I will be prepping the RC plan this week and finalizing it this friday
<ttx> I can add a few details on the beta milestone remaining work
<jiboumans> if there's anything you feel should be on our radars for RC, feel free to bring it up of course
<jiboumans> so far, nothing alarming is on my radar, so it'll be mostly business as usual, with extra time for testing of course
<jiboumans> ttx: please go ahead
<ttx> We've looked into the beta-milestoned bugs with the assignees today
<ttx> and we don't expect to respin for any of them
<ttx> we might have a new eucalyptus that would go in *if* the beta is respinned for any other reason
<ttx> otherwise it will just be committed when the archive thaws
<ttx> So ISO testing can start today if you have spare cycles
<mathiaz> ttx:  bug 621175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621175 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "-virtual kernel contains too many modules" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621175
<ttx> otherwise we'll cover it tomorrow.
<mathiaz> ttx: ^^ this one makes the minimal virtual test case fail
<mathiaz> ttx: not beta critical though
 * SpamapS hopes and prays that ceph doesn't get disabled again.
<hallyn> ttx: would you say that should be an action item?
<ttx> mathiaz: rigth, I don't expect the kernel to be reuploaded now -- good one to bring to jjohansen though
<jiboumans> hallyn: iso testing is part of our work item blueprints
<ttx> hallyn: ISO testing ? No, that would be redundant with the work items :)
 * mathiaz keeps it for later on
<hallyn> ok
<ttx> jiboumans: I've a few notes on the post-beta work as well
<jiboumans> ttx: please, go ahead
<ttx> some of you will still have some spec work
<ttx> but otherwise the focus is on Maverick bugs @
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs
<ttx> Unfortunately you can't filter that list of ubuntu-server things
<ttx> (LP bug)
<ttx> So I publish an outofsync version @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/MaverickReleaseStatus
<jiboumans> ttx++
<ttx> If you look at that last one you'll see three levels of bugs
<jiboumans> ttx: would tagging be helpful for us there?
<ttx> Milestoned bugs -- those have high priority
<ttx> jiboumans: I've to look into automating the generation of this one, yes. tagging is one solution
<ttx> high priority meaning, spec work is even secondary
<ttx> then you have "High, release targeted bugs"
<ttx> those are priority targets, but come after High priority spec work, if you follow me :)
<ttx> and finally "Other release-targeted bugs"
<ttx> which are targts of opportunity
<ttx> The first two categories have assignees
<mathiaz> ttx: could you publish a prioritize list of things to do?
<ttx> the last one is free game
<mathiaz> ttx: 1. work on bugs from this list
<mathiaz> ttx: 2. work on high priority specs
<mathiaz> ttx: 3. ...
<ttx> mathiaz: I'll discuss it with you on 1:1s when I know your spec load
<mathiaz> ttx: and so on
<ttx> because some specs have higher prio than some bugs etc
<ttx> But the general idea is:
<ttx> 1. Milestoned bugs (if any assiged to you)
<ttx> 2. Spec work
<ttx> 3. High, release targeted bugs (if any assigned to you)
<ttx> 4. "Low" spec work
<ttx> 5. Other release-targeted bugs (free game)
<ttx> mathiaz: if that answers your question
<mathiaz> ttx: is this list specific to the RC cycle, or should it also be used during the other iterations?
<mathiaz> ttx: yes - that is very useful information
<ttx> mathiaz: actually, it can be used for all
<mathiaz> ttx: to help figure out in which order things should be worked on
<ttx> it's just that we don't expect so much free time to do (5) in non-RC cycles
<ttx> beta and Rc cycles provision /some/ time to do RC bugfixing
<mathiaz> ttx: agreed - still it's useful information to help figure out what to work on :)
<hallyn> so milestoned bugs always are highest prio?  that actually is (refreshing) news to me, neat.
<ttx> if you see anything missing from those lists, please let me know
<mathiaz> ttx: this should probably be included in the personal view of the WI somehow
<ttx> hallyn: yes, those are "must fix"
<jiboumans> mathiaz: yup, agreed.. i think SpamapS is hacking on that actually
<SpamapS> Yeah I've been working on getting bug lists into those pages
<ttx> I'm done, unless there are other questions
<SpamapS> At this point the limitation is people.canonical.com's lack of server side scripting (otherwise we have to pull down all of the bugs in maverick into sqlite)
<jiboumans> spamaps: iframe, hoooo?
<jiboumans> ttx, thanks for that
<SpamapS> jiboumans: http://spamaps.org/files/test.html
 * mathiaz is a fan of couchdb - everything should be in there
<SpamapS> that about as good as I can do w/ iframes. But we can continue that discussion later.
<lifeless> mathiaz: as long as you have TB of disk
<SpamapS> thats... ugh my typing is awful today.
<hallyn> jiboumans: did you have any more on the topic?
<jiboumans> hallyn: nope, all done thanks
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> hi
<SpamapS> lifeless: who doesn't have TB of disk these days? ;-)
<lifeless> SpamapS: you'd be surprised.
<mathiaz> SpamapS: android phones?
<hallyn> howdie
<hggdh> this week I am pretty much dedicated to my other QA blueprints -- given that Eucalyptus has gone stable(r)
<zul> SpamapS: i dont
<hallyn> any questions for hggdh in that case?
<zul> noep
<lifeless> SpamapS: after this meeting, please pop into #launhcpad-dev and chat about the bug lists you want, may be simpler to spit it straight of LP
<hggdh> on the Qa front we are considering changing a bit the way the regression tags are used, and should have something soon for comments
<mathiaz> hggdh: I've (finally!!) written scripts for most of the -server iso test cases
<SpamapS> lifeless: yes, I have some ideas for that as well for sure.
<hggdh> apart from that... enjoying *not* running tests on euca, for a change ;-)
<mathiaz> hggdh: I've talked with cr3 to get them included in checkbox at some point
<hallyn> <chuckle>
<hggdh> mathiaz: cool!
<hggdh> but that's it, unless there is a question for me
<mathiaz> hggdh: I've also automated all the iso testing now
<hggdh> mathiaz: wow! on VMs?
<SpamapS> hggdh: I've tagged a bug recently as regression-release .. would that mean it gets a long hard look from your team?
<mathiaz> hggdh: it may be usefull to share my setup with the QA team
<mathiaz> hggdh: yes
<hggdh> mathiaz: yes, we would love to see (and use) it
<mathiaz> hggdh: and all the tests results are stored in couchdb
<hggdh> SpamapS: actually, in this case you probably did the Right Thing
<hggdh> mathiaz: I love you :-)
<hallyn> on that amicable note,
<mathiaz> hggdh: I'm in touch with cr3 on a regular basis as he works on something similar for LP
<mathiaz> I'm done now :)
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<hallyn> pv-ops kernel status update
<jjohansen> Bug #606373 - I have gotten working console output but its sparadic, it comes and goes so I am looking for a race
<hallyn> jjohansen: ^
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<hallyn> oops
<jjohansen> :)
<jjohansen> Bug #620994 - after extensive testing doesn't affect, Maverick or Lucid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620994 in linux (Ubuntu Hardy) "linux 2.6.24-28.75 breaks xen flavours (xen kernel bug: 'kernel BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.24/debian/build/custom-source-xen/mm/memory.c:2704')" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620994
<jjohansen> We originally believed it would be problematic for Lucid
<jjohansen> Bug #614853 - can not replicate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 614853 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "kernel panic divide error: 0000 [#1] SMP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/614853
<ttx> jjohansen: about bug 621175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621175 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "-virtual kernel contains too many modules" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621175
<ttx> is that something we can fix postbeta ?
<jjohansen> ttx - we will have to, its just a matter of packaging.  The kernel froze last week so no changes could be made since last wednesday
<jjohansen> it opens up again with beta release
<ttx> jjohansen: ack
<hallyn> more questions?
<hallyn> thanks, jjohansen
<hallyn> moving on,
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<jiboumans> no sommer it seems
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<hallyn> no kim0 either, though, i think
<hallyn> going once
<hallyn> going twice,
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Papercuts Maverick retrospective (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Papercuts Maverick retrospective (ttx)
<ttx> Quick retrospective on the Maverick papercuts effort
<ttx> Total of 48 targets
<ttx> 25 bugs fixed
<ttx> 8 invalidated
<ttx> 3 waiting on upstream
<ttx> 12 postponed
<ttx> I think it was not successful in bringing in new contributors
<kirkland> how many users did we make "happier" with Ubuntu Server?
<ttx> so I'd rethink it completely
<kirkland> (that's perhaps a hypothetical question)
<mathiaz> ttx: well - I think it may not have reached the initial objectives
<ttx> something like a list of bitesize server bugs
<hallyn> kirkland: well, unmeasurable perhaps
<Daviey> am i still here?
<mathiaz> ttx: however I think we're still fixed bugs
<ttx> that we can point contributors to
<kirkland> Daviey: ack
<Daviey> ta
<mathiaz> ttx: and we were able to measure it
<SpamapS> ttx: I think some blogging effort and scheduled "learn how to fix a bug in ubuntu" IRC classes would help with that.
<mathiaz> ttx: IMO it was a successfull format
<kirkland> ttx: i really, really, really like the idea of DEDICATING time to fixing bugs in random (or not so random) server packages
<ttx> that's a discussion for UDS, I suspect
<SpamapS> Agreed
<mathiaz> kirkland: agreed
<ttx> kirkland: but a "fix bugs" spec would cover for that
<hallyn> ttx: also i found it useful as a beginner for learning about debian packaging a bit
<hallyn> not your target goal, but...
<mathiaz> kirkland: IMO the papercuts project was successfull in that area
<SpamapS> hallyn: I second that. It was helpful to be exposed to packages done different ways.
<ttx> I'd have the bitesize list on one side, and a "fix bugs" generic blueprint to assign time to... fix bugs
<kirkland> ttx: maybe ... i filed a bug-zapping spec for Lucid, which failed miserably, in my opinion
<ttx> try to think about it a bit, and we'll rediscuss it at UDS-N
<ttx> (done)
<mathiaz> may be we could discuss something in between bug-zapping and -papercuts
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<ttx> small remark I forgot to make about postbeta work
<ttx> there is just one week between Beta release and FinalFreeze
<ttx> so that's when you can fix seemingly basic bugs
<ttx> after FinalFreeze it gets harder to push small fixes in
<hallyn> and that'd next week?
<ttx> yes :)
<hallyn> sweet
<hallyn> more open discussion?
<ttx> hallyn: welcome to the mad release schedule !
 * Daviey isn't convinced there were enough left over for drive by contributors.
<ttx> Daviey: in papercuts ?
<hallyn> Daviey: didn't see anyone coming around asking though
<mathiaz> ttx: so there are 2 weeks for preparation of RC?
<SpamapS> So for sponsors, please be ready next wed. Unless WI improvements overload me, I plan to go on a "basic bug fixing" spree. ;)
<ttx> mathiaz: there are three weeks
<ttx> but FinalFreeze is at RC-2
<hallyn> poor sponsors
<zul> yes pitty us
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
 * ttx looks at other cycles to compare
<hallyn> Tuesday 2010-09-07 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting
 * hallyn waits to end meeting ...
<mathiaz> ttx: I thought we had 2 weeks between beta release and final freeze
<ttx> ah!
<ttx> How did I misread that
<hallyn> cool, 2 weeks to bomb the sponsors
<ttx> mathiaz: you're right, thanks
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - I don't think so
<mathiaz> ttx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<mathiaz> ttx: ^^ week 21 is empty
<hallyn> shortened cycle this time right?
<ttx> 2 weeks between beta release and final freeze
<mathiaz> ttx: ah.. right
<ttx> 2 weeks between FinalFreeze and RC
<mathiaz> ttx: I was reading from RC
<hallyn> thanks, everyone
<hallyn> #endmeeting
<ttx> My Firefox is not drawing a line between week 21 and 22
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:52.
<mathiaz> anyway - indeed - there are two weeks between beta and final freeze
<ttx> good :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-01
<mvo> hello
<barry> hi
<cjwatson> afternoon
<cjwatson> robbiew: around?
<robbiew> ack
<Keybuk> he was just on the phone for me, so he should be soon :)
<robbiew> doko is at OpenOffice conference
<barry> Keybuk: network up and running these days?
<robbiew> surbhi is on holiday (but forgot to submit the canonicaladmin request)
<robbiew> is ev out?
<ScottK> ev is up to his eyballs in ubiquity, I would guess.
<Keybuk> barry: yup
<robbiew> heh...hey ev
<ev> hi, sorry I'm late
<robbiew> no worries
<ev> ScottK: indeed :-/
<robbiew> given the release is tomorrow...we can make this fast
 * barry has been struggling with intermittent net problems.  isp thinks it's my router, but i know better - it's their dns :/
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<robbiew> let's make it official, shall we?
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
<robbiew> cjwatson?
<cjwatson> done: continued work on UEFI support, now known to mostly work on some machines modulo the odd partitioning glitch, but still working on getting it to boot on my test laptop :-(; fixed Wubi for beta, I think; semi-release-managing beta, with skaet
<cjwatson> todo: get beta out the door; bisect through why EFI test laptop won't boot with repeated kernel builds; resolve partitioning issues on Manoj Iyer's EFI test system;
<cjwatson> (will give a snap beta update later)
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> ev?
<ev> fire fighting installer bugs.  Was just able to reproduce a big KDE crasher, so digging into that.  Equally trying to find some more time to dig into this apt 'media change' when installing from USB bug.
<ev> (done)
<mvo> ev: what is the bugnumber for that?
<ev> mvo: bug 627672
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 627672 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[Maverick Beta] install from USB stuck retrieving files 2/6 Hp Mini" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627672
<robbiew> mvo: you can go next :)
<mvo> last week:
<mvo> apt: merges from debian/work with david on 0.8(yeah!); beta: app-install-data/c\
<mvo> ommand-not-found updates; software-center: aptdaemon update/fixes, merges/code \
<mvo> review, work on buy-something; update-manager: get rid of extra demoted dialog,\
<mvo>  fixes for beta, setup lucid->lucid-updates test profile on pommerac
<mvo> next week:
<mvo> work on buy-something
<mvo> (done)
<mvo> heh :) that formating does not look quite good
 * mvo makes a note to use a gui editor to prepare next time
<robbiew> heh...thnx
<robbiew> barry?
<barry> back from vacation so mostly catching up.  worked on pep 3149 (versioned .so files) and tried to push for pronouncement.  worked on bug 620734 (FFe for numpy 1.4) and tried to push for pronouncement.  switched main laptop to maverick.  TODO: objectives, book UDS travel, update blueprints, looking for bugs to fix!, more ftbfs for py27.  (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620734 in python-numpy (Ubuntu) "FFe - Sync python-numpy 1:1.4.1-4 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620734
<mvo> ev: might be a regression from the 0.8 apt update, but iirc that part of the code did not change
<barry> btw, i heard only crickets on my post about the FFe for numpy :(
<ScottK> barry: Too hard I think.
<barry> ScottK: should i give up on it for mav?
<ScottK> barry: That's my recommendation.
 * ScottK already cherry picked the shogun fixes to not need dh_numpy.
<barry> ScottK: if you've fixed shogun (the bug impetus) then let's just do it asap for natty, probably same time we flip the switch for py27
 * barry will update the bug
<ScottK> It'll arrive on the first autosync run.
<barry> ScottK: cool
<ev> mvo: okay, thanks for the heads up
<robbiew> Keybuk?
<Keybuk> - DSL is working again, and is around twice the speed it was before \o/
<Keybuk> - have been working on methods to readahead filesystem metadata in block order, and methods of reading blocks from files without the current overhead of open() - all have failed :-(
<Keybuk> - have a working prototype of "Upstart 0.10" that seems to work well, beginning the simple matter or programming soon
<Keybuk> --
<mvo> ev: what do I hve to do to reproduce, just download the candidate usb-image?
<robbiew> "twice the speed" *\o/* (me with pom-poms)
<mvo> Keybuk: upstart 0.10 \o/
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<cjwatson> beta update?
 * robbiew truncates Agenda for time
<robbiew> sure
<cjwatson> fairly significant number of installer bugs, which ev has been working through.  Wubi was initially toast but should be better now.
<cjwatson> Some Eucalyptus trouble, which I think the server team is currently planning to disregard for beta due to time pressure.
<cjwatson> (so, the usual suspects, then)
<cjwatson> Ubuntu desktop respun today for installer and Wubi; Xubuntu desktop likewise, in progress; DVDs next.
<cjwatson> Question mark still over Kubuntu, pending ev et al figuring out why it keeps process-spawning its way out of memory.
<cjwatson> UNE is (I think) waiting for a resolution on the media-change issue when installing from USB.
<ScottK> Thanks to ev for all the work on ubiquity-kde.
<cjwatson> So, not brilliant, but I think we should be OK-ish for tomorrow
 * robbiew is reminded to request wubi.ubuntu.com (grrr)
<robbiew> cjwatson: ack, thnx
<ScottK> cjwatson: Any thoughts on pushing the usb-creator sru to -updates before beta?
<robbiew> so with all these issues...we should be deferring any remaining feature work that we can
<ScottK> It's verified, so it would just take waiving the aging.
<cjwatson> ScottK: ah yes, you've acked it haven't you?  I'm OK with that, any objections?
<ScottK> cjwatson: Yes.
<robbiew> cause we know the tidal wave of bugs is coming after beta
<ScottK> cjwatson: It's verified by multiple people, so it seems ~safe.
<cjwatson> I think so.  I'll waive the aging.
<barry> robbiew: +1
<ScottK> Better that than lots of people enabling proposed and accidentally installing everything from there.
<robbiew> I suppose I can give my lightning status:
<robbiew> - found proper daycare for my youngest son so I can have my mornings back \o/
<robbiew> - finishing up Canonical Foundations engineering candidate interviews
<robbiew> - training skaet on release management process
<cjwatson> done
 * psurbhi is there 
<robbiew> psurbhi: ah..hello :)
<psurbhi> hello.. :) was on a holiday last week
<mvo> hey psurbhi
<ev> hiya
<psurbhi> o/
<psurbhi> hello all
<robbiew> anything for the lightning round?
 * psurbhi was configuring mumble and thought no meeting today
<robbiew> heh
 * robbiew thought you were out
<cjwatson> mvo: can I double-check whether update-manager needs any changes for beta?
<psurbhi> heh
<cjwatson> there's an item on BetaProcess that we kind of forgot: "Release minus 3 days: Notify Michael Vogt to have update-manager say that it's a beta release instead of an alpha"
<mvo> cjwatson: no change as such, I uploaded a new version that just changes the text saying "this is a beta release"
<cjwatson> yay, perfect then, thanks
<mvo> cjwatson: its in the queue, but once we unfreeze it will be immediately there
<cjwatson> ok, doesn't need to be on CDs?
<mvo> for people upgrading from the alternative cd only, but I'm not even sure that we show it then
 * mvo needs to double check that
<cjwatson> right, that's probably fine then
<mvo> I think so too
<robbiew> psurbhi: do you have any updates?
<psurbhi> 1) was on a holiday last week
<psurbhi> 2) examining how mdadm and initramfs works together. The order in which raid arrays are set up and the role of initramfs.
<psurbhi> Very slightly getting a hang of it.
<psurbhi> thats it
<psurbhi> ..
<robbiew> thnx
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News?
<robbiew> always good to end with that ;)
<robbiew> assuming we have some
<robbiew> lol
<Keybuk> Lewis Hamilton is leading the F1 World Championship again?
<Keybuk> (well I think that's good news :p)
<cjwatson> well, figuring out why wubi was broken was a hell of a relief since I think that's been busted for a while.  sort of good news pending validation ...
<barry> happy mailman day?  no that does *not* count
<mvo> we have software to sell! fluendo-dvd
<barry> nice!
<robbiew> cjwatson: sweet!
<ev> boo Hamilton, yay Webber
<mvo> lol
<robbiew> mvo: cool....can't wait until we start selling some proper games
<robbiew> :)
<mvo> how is michael schuchmacher doing these days :P ?
<ev> hahaha
 * mvo can't even spell his name
 * robbiew has no clue about F1...probably should learn with the track coming to town
<Keybuk> robbiew: yeah, about that ... do you have a spare room? :p
<ev> lol
<robbiew> heh
<mvo> *lol*
<barry> there's a new grand prix coming to baltimore in 2011.  saw one in halifax years ago.  it was fun
<mvo> robbiew: I look forward for the games as well, that is going to be a disaster for productivity ;)
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> frozen-bubble is bad enough
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> right....if you pay for the game, then you *have* to play it...right?
<barry> robbiew: my son doesn't necessary agree
<robbiew> okie dokie....we can probably end this bad boy now
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:30.
<robbiew> thanks all!
<mvo> thanks
<barry> thanks robbie
<psurbhi> thanks robbie
<mvo> next is mumble, right?
<ScottK> barry: Please keep me informed about the grand prix.
<barry> mvo: in 30m
<barry> ScottK: http://baltimoregrandprix.com/
<barry> ScottK: almost exactly 1 year from now
<barry> ScottK: we should make a little bacon pig outing for it
<ScottK> barry: I was sort of hoping you'd remind me since I'm all old and stuff.
<barry> ScottK: yes, of course.  i am a spring chicken
<cjwatson> oh, also on good news, following my ... interesting disk excitement in Prague, I now have full automatic backups deployed all over the place at long last.  Not that anyone other than me cares. :)
<ScottK> We haven't compared birthdays, but you may be younger than me.
<barry> ScottK: let's have a signing party at the next bacon pig and find out :)
<ScottK> Sure thing.
<ScottK> You need to get your key signed by more DDs anyway.
<barry> +1
<highvoltage> howdy! Anyone present for Edubuntu meeting?
<alkisg> o/
<alkisg> Hi people!
<highvoltage> hy Alkis!
<highvoltage> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<dinda> present!
<highvoltage> release schedule is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule
<highvoltage> as you'll note from that wiki page, Beta is tomorrow!
<highvoltage> basically, what's new since the last alpha release is a new wallpaper (not the default one though), OEM installer mode, and the inclusion of Gnome Nanny
<highvoltage> at this point it seems like the final maverick release will definitely not have as much new features as maverick, but at that we can fix in natty (11.04)!
<dinda> highvoltage: can you give me a quick overview of how a new application might be included in Edubuntu?
<highvoltage> ah, and some of you might have noticed we have a new website (which isn't perfect yet but I'll be working on it)
<highvoltage> dinda: yep!
<dinda> website is off to a grand start :)
<highvoltage> dinda: first, it needs to get into the Ubuntu archives, either in main or univeverse.
<Lns> wow!!! The website looks *awesome* !!
<highvoltage> dinda: it can get in the archives either by someone (like a MOTU) uploading it to universe, or it can be included in Debian.
<ari-tczew> REVU?
<highvoltage> dinda: in the case of uploading it to Ubuntu, a needs-packaging bug needs to be filed in Launchpad. In Debian you'd fill an ITP (intent to package) bug on their bug tracker
<alkisg> dinda: what kind of support could canonical offer? A little development maybe?
<highvoltage> ari-tczew: yep, I'd consider REVU the way to get it in via the MOTUs
<ari-tczew> highvoltage: yea, I just get on the channel :)
<dinda> alksig, at this point, unfortunately nothing :(
<dinda> BUT - if something is in Main, by default Canonical supports it
<rockstar> alkisg, there are many Canonical folk that are interested in Edubuntu.
<dinda> so if an app were pushed to Main, it would be part of the support options for end users
<alkisg> E.g. classrooms/teachers could use a package that simplifies ldap setup
<alkisg> There are wiki pages about it, but they need a good technician to implement them
<alkisg> (who is not available to all schools)
<dinda> alksig:  yip, lots of people with personal motivations (like me) ogra, lots of others
<highvoltage> dinda: when it's in the ubuntu archives it's not a big step to get it included, it's usually a good idea to discuss it first on the mailing list or in the channel. if there's some general concensus then we can just include it
<highvoltage> dinda: keeping in line with Ubuntu, we try not to have more than one program that does the same thing (as in, shipping Abiword, KWord and OpenOffice.org Writer, for example)
<highvoltage> so sometimes there might be good reasons for not including something
<highvoltage> the biggest reasons for not including something is usually licensing problems
<highvoltage> (am I blabbering too much- and, have I answered your question?)
<dinda> this is perfect, thanks
<highvoltage> dinda: what we usually do is discuss the next bunch of stuff we'd like to include at UDS
<highvoltage> sometimes the work that is needed is just too much or too complicated for us
<dinda> rockstar: is that you making an appearance?
<highvoltage> an example of this is schooltool. in itself it's not really a problem, but it depends on >100 zope packages that's not in Ubuntu
<rockstar> dinda, I will indeed be at the next UDS.
<dinda> rockstar: \o/  awesome!
<highvoltage> there's one guy working hard to get them in, but he missed the deadlines (understandably so) for maverick so we won't be able to include it again
<highvoltage> Myself and stgraber will also be at UDS. we should have a few good edubuntu/education sessions this time round!
<rockstar> highvoltage, I'd be interested to know what Zope packages; a large amount of launchpad uses Zope...
<highvoltage> rockstar: there's a list somewhere, I'll see if I can find it quickly
<dinda> highvoltage:  Tom Hoffman did this great video on the new schooltool device, stand alone server for schools
<dinda> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/08/schooltool_connects_schools.html
<dinda> a bit off topic but nice to see that project progressing
<dinda> so the current list that mhall119 created is awesome, great starting point
<highvoltage> rockstar: these are some of them: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zope/Maverick and https://code.launchpad.net/~menesis/
<highvoltage> dinda: I think it's on-topic :) we should probably link to that from our website somewhere
<rockstar> highvoltage, I don't think it'd be too difficult to get those in.
<highvoltage> rockstar: for maverick?
<rockstar> highvoltage, no, probably not for maverick, since beta is tomorrow.
<highvoltage> rockstar: yeah that's where the problem is :)
<dinda> highvoltage: you mentioned maybe having both Moodle and schooltool in a future release?  maybe something we can write a blueprint for
<highvoltage> rockstar: menisis sent an email to a few people this morning asking for some help, can I forward that to you? and would you be able to help with it during the natty cycle?
<rockstar> highvoltage, sure, I'll do what I can.
<highvoltage> dinda: indeed! what I'd personally like to see is an Edubuntu server installation, that installs moodle, schooltool, koha and perhaps even some centralised authentication using something like gosa
<dinda> does gosa work with openID?
<highvoltage> that way you could get a school environment running really fast, cheap and easy (a combination of 3 that's hard to get)
<highvoltage> dinda: it uses openldap as a backend, so you could integrate it with openid
<highvoltage> (or at least, become an openid provider)
<dinda> ok, let me start a wiki page for that blueprint while I'm thinking of it
<alkisg> How bad it would be to have the edubuntu stable ppa "preinstaled" in an edubuntu installation? That would allow us to put things even after feature freezes/betas etc...
<highvoltage> dinda: so that would a blueprint for an edubuntu server? or edubuntu-auth?
<dinda> server
<highvoltage> dinda: great
<highvoltage> alkisg: it would be tricky to do that, because we wouldn't be "Ubuntu" anymore if we didn't build edubuntu from packages entirely from the Ubuntu archives
<highvoltage> alkisg: and we have edubuntu-dev now, which makes it easy for us to upload to the archives already
<alkisg> highvoltage: yeah, but that prevents e.g. schooltool from being available when it's ready. It would have to go through an SRU, which isn't always easy, or it would be available on the next release.
<highvoltage> alkisg: and it wouldn't even be able to get SRU, since SRU is just for packages /already/ in the archives
<alkisg> Even worse for teachers ;)
 * dinda is pleased to see that SchoolTool is the current featured project on Launchpad today - someone is telling us something
<highvoltage> alkisg: I think we could make big noise about a ppa and what's available in it, but getting it enabled by default is a big, big stretch and unlikely to ever happen
<dinda> Let me do some digging and see what the release cycle is for schooltool, i can contact Tom H too
<highvoltage> alkisg: I've been following some discussions on the ubuntu-devel mailing list about app-store like functionality that will be coming to ubuntu at some point in the future. I guess that could perhaps be a good framework to push things that aren't available in the archives
<highvoltage> dinda: I got your mail this morning about the suggestions for the website, sorry I haven't had a chance to reply yet :)
<dinda> highvoltage: no worries, no hurry
<dinda> highvoltage: would be good to have as many keywords, SEO things as we can too
<dinda> highvoltage: been doing searches on various things around Education/ubuntu and edubuntu and results were not good
<highvoltage> dinda: yeah, our old website was horrible for that :(
<mhall119> I'm here, I'm here
<highvoltage> dinda: I've added google analytics to the site, if you have a gmail account forward me your address and I can add you for stats
<highvoltage> I guess I can also post some stats to the list now and again
<dinda> highvoltage: that would be good, maybe part of the monthly report?
<alkisg> dinda: about the "how many schools are using edubuntu" question that you mentioned in the ML. E.g. here in greece we have a "greek edu apps" ubuntu repository and we can keep track of how many people are downloading those apps from the web server logs (about a terabyte per month). I wonder if the official repositories logs could be used as a measure of how many people are downloading/updating e.g. edubuntu-desktop...
<highvoltage> dinda: that sounds like a good idea
<dinda> alksig:  good idea, wonder who i can poke for that info?
<alkisg> Nope, I guess some canonical sysadmin...
<highvoltage> alkisg: that logs isn't really available
<alkisg> highvoltage: not even to canonical sysadmins?
<highvoltage> alkisg: since most of it is downloaded from mirrors they don't have access too, they don't have any access. mirrors aren't required to keep logs like that either
<alkisg> E.g. popularity contest should also be a measure...
<mhall119> there's also canonical-census
<highvoltage> I guess popcon is the best shot, we could encourage users to use it
<highvoltage> mhall119: canonical-census doesn't send data back about packages that are installed
<dinda> highvoltage: do you have a link for popcorn?
<mhall119> true, but I think it sends the distro name
<alkisg> highvoltage: understood, but still, if there are 10 million estimated ubuntu users, and they're updating ubuntu-desktop N times per day from the main archives, and edubuntu-desktop is updated X times per day, that would give a rough measure of the edubuntu installations around.
<alkisg> (by just using the main archives numbers)
<highvoltage> dinda: yep: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Popcorn02.jpg/800px-Popcorn02.jpg
<highvoltage> dinda: sorry :) here's the link to popcon! http://popcon.ubuntu.com/
<mhall119> heh
<highvoltage> hmm, oddly enough I can't find a page for popcon on the ubuntu wiki
<highvoltage> there must be one somewhere
<alkisg> ubuntu-desktop=1236957, edubuntu-desktop=12809, that would mean roughly 100.000 edubuntu installations...
<alkisg> (and many schools are also using plain ubuntu, not edubuntu)
<mhall119> alkisg: how about ubuntu-edu-* counts?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep. and some people install it by installing the ubuntu-edu packages
<alkisg> Right, we'd better measure by some package installed in any edubuntu installation
<highvoltage> or sometimes they just install some of the edubuntu maintained packages (like gnome nanny, for example)
<alkisg> Also, LTSP is very much used in schools, so 1 installation there counts for dozens of clients
 * highvoltage was also thinking of that
<highvoltage> I also know of lots of schools in South Africa that specifically don't enabale popcon or something that uses unnecessary bandwidth because it's so expensive there
<dinda> so. . .lots and probably more than we'll ever know :)
<highvoltage> dinda: should we spend some time now on the other questions you added to the agenda?
 * alkisg needs to automatically enable popcon in greek school installations ;)
<highvoltage> I guess 20 minutes isn't enough to give those questions the attention they deserve!
<highvoltage> alkisg: that would be nice :)
<dinda> yes, just starting the basic dialog of what the community would like to see from Canonical
<mhall119> printed CDs would be nice
<highvoltage> dinda: yes, I don't think we'll ever have enough numbers, but if we keep track we might find some interesting results. for example, if we see sharp rise in usage numbers in line with ubuntu for a few releases, and then suddenly a sharp rise or decline in comparison, then we can get an idea of how much our user base is growing and how things are going
<mhall119> of edubuntu
<dinda> There are lots of people in the company who have very high personal interests in Edubuntu/Ubuntu in Education
<alkisg> It would be nice to have some canonical developers working on some of the edubuntu packages... I know it's hard, but even a couple of them would make a vast difference.
<highvoltage> dinda: how can we get those people involved?
<dinda> so I"m trying to make the case for a dedicated resource like there used to be some 2+ years ago
<highvoltage> dinda: even if they could just give feedback on what we're doing right or wrong that would already help!
<mhall119> dinda: I dropped a hint to jono during his videocast today that he needed a horseman for education
<dinda> it's a valuable market, not just for goodwill but seeing lots of adoption among schools and now Higher Ed
<dinda> mhall119: lol - yeah, heard that - awesome!
<pleia2> dinda: sorry I haven't replied to your email, it's great that you're able to reach out like this :) I still have to visit the rest of the schools in the bay area that are using ubuntu, but it's been very encouraging thus far
<highvoltage> I spent Sunday to yesterday doing an LTSP deployment for a university in Uganda
<highvoltage> was nice getting feedback from them about how nice it's working :)
<mhall119> dinda: training for the schoolboard IT staff would be a big help I think
<dinda> I'm going to visit a school here in houston that is all ubuntu and the guy who did all the work is also the Moodle Core Contributor coordinator
<mhall119> right now the IT departments are against anything new/unfamiliar
<highvoltage> dinda: now and again we have canonical staff peeking in to our edubuntu meetings and making some comments nad suggestings, even that is already really valuable imho
<pleia2> mhall119: that's pretty common, we've only been able to get into charter schools (much less red tape than traditional public schools here in the US)
<dinda> we might better traction from wannabe MOTU types and packaging help from the community
<mhall119> yeah, I think generally better visibility between edubuntu and canonical staff would be good
<dinda> if we can maybe partner with the Uw mentoring or other effort, we can place edubuntu packages as ones for folks to look at
<mhall119> dinda: they put together a nice little black box set for Ubuntu Server/UEC
<mhall119> something like that for Edubuntu would be awesome
<dinda> I'm seeing the need for information outlined like this:
<dinda> 1.  End users:  students/teachers/parents
<dinda> 2. Decision makers - CIOs, IT Leaders, School Boards, governement/elected folks
<dinda> 3.  solution providers  oem/odm/ and consulting companies that do business in the market space
<dinda> doph and of course the whoel developer community :)
<mhall119> I'd add Implementers: Principals and Sys Admins/Network Admins
<dinda> I've got the first 3 on my list to try to write content for them
<mhall119> they're not decision makers, nor end users
<highvoltage> dinda: I've been meaning to ask Canonical about it, and let me know if you can take this question up or if I should ask someone else,
<dinda> mhall119: so you see them as different from #2?
<mhall119> but they'll probably be asked about the rollout cost
<mhall119> dinda: yes, because they often don't have a say in what happens, but do give estimates on the cost and risks
<highvoltage> dinda: we get questions now and again for commercial support, and Canonical doesn't support Edubuntu officially at this stage
<mhall119> dinda: and those are the ones that will be the target for training
<highvoltage> dinda: and the edubuntu project itself also doesn't offer commercial support, but there's lots of other companies out there that do
<dinda> mhall119: ok 4.  Implementors  - could be IT staff or the volunteer wanting to setup an Ltsp lab
<mhall119> dinda: include the school administrators too, they'll have to oversee it
<highvoltage> dinda: would we be able to have an Edubuntu market place on the Edubuntu site, similar to what the Ubuntu marketplace used to be like on the Ubuntu site listing people and companies that offer paid for Edubuntu support and solutions?
<dinda> good question
<highvoltage> dinda: it would be great if you could get an answer
<dinda> highvoltage: I can put that forward, was just looking at the Novell and RH sites to see how they handle the partner/affiliate or non-affiliated support providers
<mhall119> yeah, and what the requirements would be to get listed
<dinda> I know the requirements for the ubuntu marketplace used to be pretty low, will have to see if there is a guideline somewhere
<dinda> official commercial support from Canonical is interesting. . .and I've asked about it
<highvoltage> yes, anyone can be on the Ubuntu marketplace
<dinda> if it's in main then it's supported by Canonical but. . .
<dinda> until someone asks to buy support, then it's not really been tested
<mhall119> not everything in edubuntu is in main anymore either
<highvoltage> well not necessarily
<highvoltage> just because /Canonical/ didn't test it doesn't mean that it's untested ;)
<mhall119> I think the means the support is untested
<mhall119> s/the/she/
<dinda> highvoltage: I meant not testing as in QA but in no one's ever tried to buy Edubuntu support - afaik
<highvoltage> mhall119: there are *many* companies out there that support packages in universe
<mhall119> highvoltage: yes, but not canonical
<highvoltage> dinda: you mean from Canonical, specifically
<dinda> highvoltage: yes, at this point
<ScottK> At one point Edubuntu was supported by Canonical (as in you could buy a support contract)
<dinda> is there a need for Canonical to offer a different Edubuntu support offering?  or even an academically priced ubuntu support offering?
<highvoltage> dinda: I think that's also kind of understanable, it's not advertised well on the Ubuntu website. Last I looked (a few weeks ago) there was just a vagure reference that there was an "Education Edition"
<dinda> highvoltage: yes, and that is VERY confusing
<dinda> I'm trying to get that text fixed
<highvoltage> dinda: good question!
<mhall119> dinda: technically I don't think there's a need, but the perception is important
<mhall119> saying "Canonical offer Edubuntu support" sounds much different than "Canonical supports the packages that are in Edubuntu"
<dinda> highvoltage: the link to download the Education Edition is really just a link to d/l Ubuntu
<highvoltage> dinda: the packages available in Edubuntu are a small amount extra to those already in Ubuntu, I don't think it would take much effort or doing anything extra to support it
<alkisg> Organizations here would like to hear that it's "officially supported by canonical" even if they didn't buy support until the user base is big enough. It would "silence" some people that say "we don't want to install that because it's not officially supported". I imagine after some years the user base would grow, and organizations would start buying support then...
<dinda> mhall119: agreed and really there aren't alot of packages that would be sucha great burden if they did require some official support
<highvoltage> dinda: the education upstreams (kde/tux4kids/etc) are doing a pretty good job of things like documenting their own work
<mhall119> dinda: yeah, most are in main anyway
<mhall119> dinda: if anything, it could exclude packages that schools/educators aren't likely to need
<dinda> so it could make a good impact for schools and decision makers
<mhall119> yes
<dinda> highvoltage: does any of that documentation get pushed into the edubuntu offering?
<mhall119> the last thing a school wants to do is shift their infrastructure to something new and have no support
<highvoltage> sounds like it's an issue of validation too to some degree
<highvoltage> dinda: some of it, yes. I want to get it featured more prominently, I've gone and linked to the upstream websites from our screenshots page so long
<dinda> mhall119: it's actually easier on the infrastructure side (server) than o nthe desktop
<mhall119> having an LTS release of Edubuntu, once there is official support, would help too
<highvoltage> dinda: because people don't always know that they exist
<mhall119> dinda: true, and I kind of meant both
<highvoltage> imho we weren't ready for LTS the last 2 releases
<mhall119> well there's not much point in calling it an LTS if there's no official "S"
<highvoltage> not because of quality issues or support issues per se, but because things have been changing quite a lot, and we don't want people to use old, outdated stuff
<highvoltage> for the next LTS release, it would be nice to have Edubuntu LTS again
<highvoltage> (that's just my opinion)
<alkisg> highvoltage++ :)
<mhall119> but we'll need more than volunteers to backup such a commitment
<dinda> mhall119: agreed
<mhall119> saying "This is supported for 5 years by people who may disappear tomorrow" doesn't invoke confidence
<dinda> ok, we can continue on mailing list, #edubuntu if others have to run
<highvoltage> mhall119: there are no such gaurantees in Ubuntu either
<mhall119> if it's supported by canonical, there's at least the expectation that canonical will be around
<dinda> oh and I told dgroos I'd ask about perhaps moving the meeting time to evening US??
<dinda> mhall119: I hear you!
<highvoltage> dinda: we could alternate?
<dinda> mhall119: we're asking folks to turn over their data centers to a small company with only 5 years behind it :)
<alkisg> We tried many different hours and this was the one that worked best for people actually attending the meetings... but yeah, alternate schedules could also be good
<mhall119> dinda: true, but canonical makes money by staying in business, they have incentive
<mhall119> not so much with volunteers
<mhall119> not financial incentive anyway
<mhall119> I'm just playing devil's advocate
 * dinda hands mhall119 a whole pile of virtual money and many thanks for his work :)
<mhall119> *I* believe that volunteers will stick around
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, if I had to stop my ubuntu support in education I'd be broke!
<mhall119> highvoltage: not if it was your company's decision to focus on a different product
<dinda> in general we need to do a better job of volunteer recognition
<highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, but that happens to Canonical as well.
<dinda> lost lots of good contributors b/c they said they felt unappreciated
<mhall119> dinda: while I agree, i wasn't trying to say that
<highvoltage> mhall119: in fact, in Edubuntu's case /it did/ happen already
<Lns> IMHO, What we need is dedicated people already involved in education, and motivated to helping Edubuntu in THEIR schools, to become the volunteers that will stick around for a long time.
<mhall119> highvoltage: yes, I know
<mhall119> Lns: yes, that would probably be the ideal
<dinda> Lns: agreed, Education is enough of a reason for many to become contributors
<Lns> The sysadmins who take care of edubuntu are the ones most motivated to making it better, not people who might contribute a few patches/etc
<mhall119> but that would require a lot of training
<highvoltage> dinda: Canonical treated the Edubuntu contrubitors really horribly at one stage, yes
<Lns> mhall119: not really. they can train themselves
<alkisg> Volunteers can do many things, but it would help a lot if some packages (e.g. the easy ldap installation package I meantioned earlier) were developed by paid developers, and maintained by the community afterwards...
<mhall119> Lns: in theory yes
<highvoltage> mhall119: also, people who have pure financial motivation tend to contribute back the least, ime
<mhall119> but that's not much of a way for us to be promoting it
<Lns> all we need is one or two very well placed I.T. folks in schools who know LDAP inside and out to become the maintainers
<dinda> alksig:  if you or someone can send me a list of such packages I can start to make that case
<mhall119> highvoltage: I agree
<mhall119> I'm not saying that *we* should be getting paid for this
<Lns> (sorry to butt-in so late in the conversation btw)
<dinda> The Moodle Core Dev coordinator might have some ideas for me - Moodle only uses 25 total contributors
<mhall119> I'm saying that schools would feel better about making a committment if they knew they someone had a financial interest in continuing the product
<dinda> yet it's a huge project
<alkisg> dinda: ok, I'll try to make a list of things/packages were we would appreciate some professional developer help, at least to get them going.
<dinda> thanks alksi
<highvoltage> mhall119: *nod*
<dinda> also, was asked once if conference sponsorships would help?
<Lns> mhall119: I think schools would be more apt to start using edubuntu if they knew people in other schools who were using it - in the education world, it's ALL about who you know.
<mhall119> Lns: maybe, but that's a chicken and egg problem
<Lns> mhall119: true ;)
<mhall119> once Edubuntu is widely used, it will be more widely used
<highvoltage> dinda: what kind of conference sponsorships? Like Educational conferences?
<mhall119> educational conferences would be awesome
<dinda> highvoltage: yes, any place where it would be good to promote Edubuntu/Ubuntu
<mhall119> there was a huge one in Orlando earlier this year, but it was like $1200 a table
<dinda> I'm thinking like Educause and other Education conferences
 * inetpro listening in
<Lns> mhall119: but marketing and exposure of the few schools that DO have it right now are key. We need to spread the word as widely as possible, that's how people get to see it and consider it for themselves
<highvoltage> dinda: are you familiar with Canonical's support offerings?
<dinda> highvoltage: somewhat
<mhall119> Lns: true, but they'll still need help learning what they need to learn before they can implement it themselves
<mhall119> and it'll take longer if they have to do that all by themselves
<dinda> Like the one cproffit spoke at;  regional and national technology in education conferences
<Lns> mhall119: that's where community support comes in from other schools.
<Lns> there is no "all by themselves" in open source OR education.
<mhall119> Lns: where I live at least, the decisions are made by the county schoolboard, not individual schools
<Lns> very tight knit communities where everyone loves helping others
<highvoltage> dinda: ok, perhaps we need to talk more about the specifics, but my clients in South Africa come to me specifically because they can't get the kind of support they need from Canonical. Canonical has very set support products and pricing at the moment, which is quite understanable, but it doesn't work for a lot of people
<dinda> mhall119: that's true for most of the US, except for private and charter schools where they have freedom
<mhall119> and the schoolboards don't seem to cross paths with other schooboards much
<Lns> mhall119: yes that's true in most cases.
<highvoltage> dinda: I'm trying to keep a very long explanation short here, so please bear with me...
<mhall119> having an Edubuntu booth at the big educational software expos would be good just to let people know about it, and maybe talk to people who have implemented it
<dinda> highvoltage: yes, right now pricing is mostly for Tier 1 countries, not developing countries
<highvoltage> dinda: well, the same applies to clients I work with in Canada and the US :)
 * dinda adds Academic pricing to the list of things to push up :)
<mhall119> dinda: could Canonical offer an Edubuntu support offering that only covered a subset of packages?  this rather than a superset of what is already supported?
<Lns> what we're talking about isn't 'edubuntu' specific - it's about promoting open source projects in general
<Lns> we could probably learn a lot from what the mozilla / OOo people have done to promote their "products"
<highvoltage> dinda: something that could perhaps work (I haven't put too much thought in it yet), would be some kind of official training from canonical that can show that a company has the skills it needs to provide edubuntu support
<highvoltage> dinda: it's not just a pricing issue though
<mhall119> highvoltage: is there any reason we couldn't put together such a training/testing package?
<mhall119> I know the edubuntu/canonical relationships is kind of fuzzy at the edges
<dinda> I can do the standard Edubuntu desktop training on my own as a community member - already started it
<highvoltage> dinda: there are some issues that Canonical couldn't decide on before, like, "is an ltsp server a server or a desktop?" and "would the workstations count as one system, or many in terms of pricing", and while they decide the clients walk away
<dinda> but the sys admin and up level gets trickier
<highvoltage> mhall119: I don't think there's anything stopping us from doing it, I was thinking of even doing it myself (with help from others of course) some time during next year
<dinda> highvoltage: I think they (canonical) is a in a better place to start addressing those questions now
<mhall119> highvoltage: okay, I wasn't sure what we could call "official" with Edubuntu having a special place in Canonical's trademark policy
<highvoltage> a previous colleague of mine wanted to start something like an Edubuntu Academy, a place where companies could send their staff to and they'd get training on how to use Ubuntu/Edubuntu in schools
<highvoltage> I've had a few people contact me over the last year asking for such training, but I haven't been in a position to provide it due to time constraints
<dinda> so this is all good stuff, now I just need to get it better organized so I can start making the case for it
<highvoltage> dinda: *nod* I agree. Canonical has gotten a lot better with that
<mhall119> dinda: can you check on the trademark question if we were to offer paid support or training?
<mhall119> "we" being the community
<highvoltage> mhall119: we can
<mhall119> highvoltage: have you checked?
<highvoltage> mhall119: the trademark policy is on the website. we can offer Edubuntu services, we can't call a company we own Edubuntu though or call our product "Edubuntu"
<dinda> i'm confused o nthe use of the word 'official' myself like all the docs are considered official
<mhall119> so "Edubuntu Academy" would be out
<highvoltage> mhall119: basically, yes, but we could get permission for that, or even partner up for that
<mhall119> hmm
<dinda> so what's to stop to a community group from saying they've developed 'official' training materials, CC-By-SA?
<mhall119> it would be nice it there was a non-profit Edubuntu Foundation for that
<mhall119> dinda: trademark
<mhall119> "official" implies endorsement
<mhall119> or affiliation
<highvoltage> dinda: indeed, there's a few "officials" here. there's what's supported by Canonical officially, there's official packages from the Edubuntu project in the Ubuntu archives, there's official packages from the Edubuntu community in the stable PPA, sometimes there's some confusion and blurring when people talk about official
<mhall119> and if non such exists, it's a trademark violation
<mhall119> at least, that's my understanding
<dinda> i'm still confused but that's just me
<mhall119> legalese
<mhall119> if it made easy sense, lawyers wouldn't get so much money
<highvoltage> dinda: please talk about it, I'd like to know what the confusing parts are
<highvoltage> trademarks aren't /that/ complicated, really
<dinda> well don't understand who gives the 'official' endorsement?  The CC or someone in Canonical?
<dinda> Tech board for packages?
<dinda> i can understand if there is a competing commercial interest. . .
<dinda> but in the case of Edubuntu training, it's not something canonical has any plans to do - afaik
<highvoltage> yes those are seperate issues
<highvoltage> as far as packages, etc go, we're about as official as we need to be
<mhall119> dinda: it's more a matter of customer perception
<highvoltage> I think mhall119 was talking about support and the commercial side more specifically
<mhall119> we can't make people think that what we're offing is coming from or supported by Canonical unless it is
<mhall119> since Canonical owns the trademark on Edubuntu, claiming anything as the "official Edubuntu $foo" implies canonical's approval
<highvoltage> mhall119: I also don't necessarilly see it as a problem if Canonical doesn't want to support it. there should just be good and obvious ways for others to do it then
<highvoltage> mhall119: again, not really
<mhall119> highvoltage: just my understanding of trademark law
<mhall119> I know Fluxbuntu had to change their name because of it
<highvoltage> mhall119: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<mhall119> highvoltage: if we sold training or certification, it would fall under the "Any Commercial use" exclusion
<dinda> I guess all the derivatives have a similar issue:  Kubuntu, Xubuntu, while Kubuntu is considered an official derivative, there is no support you can buy for it from canonical
<highvoltage> mhall119: no, you could do training
<mhall119> also "Use in combination with any product or service which is presented as being Certified or Official or formally associated with us or our products or services."
<mhall119> is excluded
<highvoltage> mhall119: certification is another story. Canonical can't stop you legally from selling Edubuntu support or training, and saying that it is
<mhall119> highvoltage: true
<mhall119> but that isn't the kind of support and training I was hoping to have to offer to schools
<mhall119> and we certainly couldn't call it "official Edubuntu training"
<mhall119> just "Edubuntu training"
<mhall119> if even then
<mhall119> maybe it would have to be "Training on the use of Edubuntu"
<dinda> like many Loco teams do with Ubuntu training
<highvoltage> mhall119: If I understand you correctly, what you're after, basically, is a rubberstamping from Canonical that you're legit and are allowed to do the training, etc you want to provide?
<mhall119> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> mhall119: personally, I'm not that hung up on having "officially" pasted everywhere.
<mhall119> so we don't have to throw in a bunch of disclaimers when we talk about it
<dinda> mhall119: ah yes, in that case they would stop you
<highvoltage> mhall119: I think if you put something good together, Canonical would do that, I think we're making a bigger issue out of this than it is
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'm sure they would, I just wanted to get clarification
<highvoltage> I can't see why Canonical would be against something that would ultimately promote their line of products and expand their potential markets. Sure there's a trademark. I don't think it's hard to get around by just talking to Canonical. big deal.
<highvoltage> mhall119: so, if it's not clear, you can give something called "Edubuntu training", but not "official Edubuntu training" unless you have permission from Canonical to do so
<mhall119> highvoltage: with trademark law, if you knowing allow the unlicensed use of a trademark, it becomes harder to enforce it
<highvoltage> I think having a single "official training" would be a bad idea. having different courses or types of training that is approved by Canonical sounds more useful
<mhall119> so even if Canonical liked it, it would have to be licensed or not allowed, otherwise it could harm them
<mhall119> going back to Fluxbuntu, i'm sure canonical liked it, but they couldn't let their trademark be used like that
<highvoltage> mhall119: yes, what I'm saying is that if it's in their best interest, then it's very likely that you'll get the permission that you need. I didn't suggest unauthorized use.
<mhall119> highvoltage: okay, on that we agree
<mhall119> as long as we get permission and don't assume it
<mhall119> sorry, but I've got to head home now
<highvoltage> mhall119: it was the responsibility of fluxbuntu to clear that out with canonical before naming their product(s), so I don't see how that's relevant
<mhall119> highvoltage: if we start offering training we'd need to do the same
<mhall119> before we use "Edubuntu" in the name
<mhall119> is all I'm saying
<highvoltage> mhall119: yes. it's no big deal.
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> gotta run now, ping me in #edubuntu if there's anything more I need to be aware of
<highvoltage> ok. this meeting is already 45 minutes over already :)
<mhall119> just a tad late
<highvoltage> dinda: sorry if things sounded a bit heated
<dinda> not at all, good discussion
 * mhall119 is heated, the A/C at my office is broken :(
<dinda> helps me try to get my head around all the issues
 * inetpro enjoyed the interesting discussion
<mhall119> dinda: out of curiousity, who are you reporting all this to inside Canonical?
<highvoltage> dinda: mhall119's issue is actually quite common around providers who want to provide high-quality services. so that is indeed something to think about imho
<dinda> i'm in the OEM department, where the previous Education Manager used to be housed
<dinda> but I'm just in the reporting/drafting stages of recommendations so we'll see how it goes
<dinda> at least management seems to be interested in anything Education again so that is good first step :)  I hope!
<highvoltage> dinda: well, I've always appreciated the bridging that you've done between Canonical and Edubuntu, if it wasn't for you, no one else would probably have been doing it
<dinda> highvoltage: I'm trying :)
<dinda> I'll be around #edubuntu later if anyone has other questions
<dinda> and please email the list or me if anyone has suggestions, discussion points
 * highvoltage too
<alkisg> Thanks all
<dinda> thanks everyone!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-02
<huats> morning
<aday> mgunes, andreasn: hey, meeting time?
<godbyk> aday: I assume so. Though it appears that our fearless leader is absent.
<aday> godbyk: it would seem so
<aday> wers, vish: yo, you here?!
<mgunes> and without him and an agenda we're destined for an aimless hour of chit-chat as usual :)
<wers-android> I'm having dinner. hehe. wait
<vish> yup for a few mins :)
<mgunes> aday, your last blog post was a nice summary of design happenings in GNOME; it would be useful if you were to make it periodical, perhaps with some help from us and/or others.
<aday> mgunes: that's what's happening. we're going to rotate each week
<aday> hbons is supposed to be doing it this week
<aday> there's tonnes of design work happening in gnome right now
<mgunes> good to know.
<aday> the report seems to have gone down well, anyway
<aday> anything worth discussing now?
<mgunes> aday, I take it that http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG3/ is where the latest HIG-related things go on, correct?
<aday> mgunes: that's right. bit quiet at the moment... i need more hours in the day
<mgunes> I'm a bit puzzled as to what exactly "porting" an old HIG guideline involves. Could you expand on that a bit?
<aday> mgunes: the new hig is a set of ui patterns, which have a template for
<aday> porting means pulling out a ui pattern from the existing guidelines, structuring it around the template, and updating where necessary
<wers-android> nice. i just thought. does kde have ui patterns?
<wers-android> maybe, we can work together. just maybe
<aday> some patterns are just sections from the current hig. some have to be pieced together from a few different places
<aday> wers-android: there are some links here - http://live.gnome.org/User%20Interface%20Patterns . don't think kde use patterns as such
<aday> we really need help with the new hig though - any assistance would be appreciated
<wers> yep. that's very important
<mgunes> aday, so right now it involves literally lifting existing pieces of the old guidelines and fitting them in the new template; whether the actual content is to change and to what extent is to be discussed and approved later
<wers> aday, is this the latest http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/nightly/ ?
<aday> mgunes: yes, that's some of it. there are going to be new patterns too of course
<mgunes> right
<aday> wers: i guess. don't think it's changed that much. i just use the stable version
<aday> mpt wrote a new pattern on handling errors that's really good - http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG3/HandlingErrors
<wers> aday, I'm not familiar with the work required for the HIG other than the UI Patterns. is there more to it than what mgunes mentioned?
<aday> wers: not really. it's pretty straightforward. we have the template, new patterns to write and existing ones to port and update
<mgunes> and GtkBuilder files and sample source code to provide (which is particularly a strength of the new HIG)
<aday> mgunes: in time, yes
<mgunes> aday, I read mpt's pattern; it doesn't seem to conform to the template though
<aday> mgunes: no :P
<aday> mgunes: we're still playing with the format. we'll have to review at some point soon
<aday> the template is a bit overcomplex imo
<mgunes> aday, I assume most of the work goes on in #gnome-design, right?
<aday> mgunes: indeed
<mgunes> I'm hoping to set aside some time in the coming weeks for HIG work
<aday> mgunes: that would be so awesome
<thorwil> aday: one issue i see is that most there looks like guidelines, not patterns
<aday> thorwil: in the HIG3 stuff? yeah, there's a bit of both
<thorwil> a pattern should be more concrete and might include a selection and layout of widgets
<aday> thorwil: where is that not happening?
<thorwil> aday: the handling errors thing? sorry, real life interferes, bbl
<mgunes> thorwil, I assume they will be closer to patterns once more of them have GtkBuilder examples and sample code
<mgunes> I recall the first few ones Calum Benson worked on had both
<aday> i agree about the handling errors page not being very pattern-like. maybe some of it could be disaggregated into other patterns? we still want the central message - that's useful, i think
<thorwil> it would be fine to have both a more abstract guidelines part and a pattern library.
<Jaikyee> hola, cuando hay reu de nosotros... un evento donde nos reunamos?
<czajkowski> !es | Jaikyee
<ubottu> Jaikyee: En la mayorÃ­a de canales de Ubuntu se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
<Jaikyee> aloooo
<Tito__> Los invito a visitar mi blog donde publico tutoriales que pueden llegar a ser Ãºtiles la pÃ¡gina es http://titoubuntu.blogspot.com/
<czajkowski> !es | Tito__
<ubottu> Tito__: En la mayorÃ­a de canales de Ubuntu se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
<Tito__> ok gracias
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-03
<seb128> hey
<robbiew> hey
<jdstrand> o/
 * pgraner 0/
<ScottK> \o
 * ara waves
 * skaet waves
<rsajdok> o/
 * robbiew needs a minute :)
<skaet> robbiew,  you want me to do the formalities, or will you?
<robbiew> well...if you ask
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> I will
<robbiew> ;)
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<iainfarrell> Bonjour y'all :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Bugs and Features Summary
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs and Features Summary
<robbiew> howdy iainfarrell
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew>    * Milestoned bugs
<robbiew>     * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.milestone=27462
<robbiew>    * Release-targeted bugs
<robbiew>     * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs
<robbiew>    * Known regressions
<robbiew>     * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential
<robbiew>    * Unresolved Bugs with Patches
<robbiew>     * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+patches
<robbiew>    * Nominated bugs
<robbiew>     * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+nominations
<robbiew> I haven't heard of any OMG bugs...yet
<rickspencer3> robbiew, is that at all related to the retracers being down?
<ScottK> That helps.
<robbiew> indeed
<ScottK> We'd get to release faster if we turned off the bug tracker too.
<ara> rickspencer3, mmm, one of the bugs that I filed got retraced, so I guess that's fixed now
<seb128> ara, not it's not, we got 3 bugs retracer today manually
<rickspencer3> right
<ara> ah, ok
<seb128> but I'm debugging still with the launchpad guys
<robbiew> seb128: ack..thanks for the update
<robbiew> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
<robbiew> shows a lot of ubuntuone-client bugs
<rickspencer3> anyone here from the U1 team?
<joshuahoover> here :)
<robbiew> hey joshuahoover :)
<joshuahoover> hi!
<ogra> feely very crashy on arm atm
<joshuahoover> so i need to review/clean up some of those new bugs
<robbiew> okay
<robbiew> do you all have someone with the "power" to target bugs?
<rickspencer3> joshuahoover, when does desktopcouch syncing get turned back on?
<joshuahoover> we have a list of bugs that we're working on and i can update everyone on the most important ones that are impacting u1 functionality in maverick beta
<rickspencer3> that may bring a lot of new bug reports as well
<joshuahoover> rickspencer3: we started to open desktopcouch replication late yesterday...we're currently working on opening it further and troubleshooting issues with couchio as we find them
<robbiew> joshuahoover: the stage is all yours :)
<joshuahoover> alright...here we go :)
<joshuahoover> * bug #628118 is affecting all u1 sso dependent functionality, which means pretty much everything u1 related in maverick right now...this is a server-side issue that we are rolling out the fix to edge today (we thought we had it fixed on tuesday but found more problems)...once that's out there, we'll verify it fixes the issue and then rollout to production on tuesday, 2010-09-07
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628118 in Ubuntu One Servers "OAuth tokens are not added to Ubuntu One after /sso-finished-so-get-tokens/" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628118
<joshuahoover> * bug #629095 prevents desktopcouch from pairing up w/ the u1 servers for replication...we have mandel working on this fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 629095 in desktopcouch "Ubuntu One pairing code needs to be added" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629095
<joshuahoover> * bug #624616 was released just hours ago, it was preventing the music store plugin from loading
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 624616 in The Ubuntu Music Store Rhythmbox plugin "rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store without icon" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/624616
<joshuahoover> * bug #620640 is released but we need to make some changes to the way we packaged it based on feedback in the comments...this bug crashed tomboy when selecting u1 sync in the prefs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 620640 in tomboy (Ubuntu Maverick) "Crash on selection of UbuntuOne synchronisation preference" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620640
<joshuahoover> the rest of our list of high/critical bugs (for us) can be found on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/MaverickReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> that's the update i have on u1 bugs...any questions? i'd then like to address a ui freeze exception once we get through any questions
<robbiew> joshuahoover: no questions...address away!
<joshuahoover> we have a ui freeze exception i'd like to get the OK to move forward with...bug #627440 which is about removing 2 fields from the u1 sso screen so that it fits on netbook/smaller displays properly...i've notified docs and translation lists & haven't heard anything back...we'd like to get this in on our next package release, which is wed. 2010-09-08
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 627440 in ubuntu-sso-client (Ubuntu) "[UI Freeze Exception] Registration UI is too tall for small screens" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627440
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> robbiew: I'll approve it.
<robbiew> thank you sir
<joshuahoover> ScottK: great! thanks!
<joshuahoover> that is all i have right now
<robbiew> thanks joshua
<robbiew> I figure it's best to just go around the teams...then call this bad boy over if nothing else pops up
<robbiew> [TOPIC] QA update
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA update
<ara> hello!
<robbiew> hi :)
<ara> As we don't want this meeting to be too long, I will quickly get to the point.
<ara> As usual, you can find fader's latest HW testing report at:
<ScottK> joshuahoover: Done.
<ara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<ara> the summary he reports:
<ara> Laptops:
<ara>     Passed:   45 (96%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  2 ( 4%)
<ara> Servers:
<ara>     Passed:   60 (88%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  8 (12%)
<ara> Netbooks:
<ara>     Passed:   14 (88%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  2 (12%)
<ara> Desktops:
<ara>     Passed:   11 (79%)    Failed:    0 ( 0%)    Untested:  3 (21%)
<ara> and, quoting fader again:
<ara> "I see that bug 625309 is Fix Released, so I will go through the machines
<ara> that were previously affected by it that are untested and see if they
<ara> are having a different issue or if we need to reopen the bug.
<ara> We have completed a round of manual tests on the hardware in the lab in
<ara> Montreal.  Overall this looked very good with few bugs found.  Hankyone
<ara> is retesting these with the beta image to see if they are still valid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 625309 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Maverick) "iscsi hardware not detected for install" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625309
<ara> and will file bugs if so.  Huge thanks to Hankyone and cyphermox for
<ara> testing a ton of laptops! :) "
<robbiew> heh...Hankyone..what a nick
<ara> Any questions on HW testing?
<ara> :D
<ara> OK, going on...
<fader_> robbiew: He's awesome :)
<ara> And, as usual, and after every milestone testing cycle, we can have a look to the testing report at:
<ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/MaverickBetaTestReport
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/MaverickBetaTestReport
<ara> It is not worth it dumping it here, as the Wiki format is much better, and you get direct links to the bug reports.
<robbiew> yep...thanks for sparing us ;)
<ara> We didn't reach 100% image coverage :-(
<ara> From the 52 images that we have, there was one uncovered:
<ara> # Ubuntu Server EC2 EBS (Asia-Pacific) amd64
<ara> Maybe the server team can explain later on what happened.
<ara> Also, the netboot testcase for ARM Dove didn't get any coverage. Maybe the Mobile team does not need any testcase, anymore? Is it something else?
<ara> not any testcase, of course, *that* testcase
<ogra> we dont really care for netboot, its just a nice to have
<ara> ogra, then we might move it to "optional testcases"
<ogra> but requires significant knowledge to set up etc on the user side
<robbiew> ara: +1
<ogra> ara, sounds perfect, i didnt know that exists
<ara> [ACTION] ara to move netboot arm dove testcase to "optional"
<ttx> smoser: comment on lack of testing of  Ubuntu Server EC2 EBS (Asia-Pacific) amd64 ?
<ttx> I think there are a few bandwidth issues with the AP zones, but he should confirm
<robbiew> ara: is that it?
<ara> OK, while we wait for smoser...
<ara> no, I am a bit chatty, sorry
<ara> I can stop now, if you want
<ttx> he can answer asynchronously :)
<robbiew> no..go on :)
<ara> Just some bugs that needs to be prioritize:
<ara> OEM does not install oem-config when there is not network connection: bug 628911 (possible duplicates: bug 628290, bug 628681)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628911 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Netbook OEM did not install oem-config" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628911
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628290 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "OEM installation, missing "Prepare for shipping to end user" icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628290
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628681 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Kubuntu OEM did not install oem-config-kde" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628681
<ara> (or at least milestoned)
<ara> bug 628864 - (Change of notation)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628864 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Maverick) ""Guided" install does no guiding and wipes out existing install without warning" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628864
<robbiew> looks like ev will be busy :P
<ogra> we should just all switch to preinstalled images :)
<ara> :D
<ogra> no partitioning issues and ome-config is always there :)
<cjwatson> those are all very high up our lilst
<ogra> *oem
<cjwatson> *list
<ara> cjwatson, great! thanks a lot!
<cjwatson> 628864 is not just a change of notation - it's tied in with other partitioner interaction bugs in kubuntu
<cjwatson> but yes it shouldn't be that hard
<ara> cjwatson, thanks for the clarification
<ScottK> cjwatson: Are the partioner issues ~understood?
<smoser> i'm here.
<cjwatson> ScottK: I think I understand what's likely to be going on, at least
<ara> Because we don't want to find very critical errors in the installer while testing RC, I have subscribed to some of the bugs described here. Once they get fixed, I will start a pairwise testing cycle for Ubiquity, some time in between Beta and RC, to see if everything works. I will be announcing this in ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-qa when ready, if you guys agree
<ScottK> cjwatson: Thanks.
<cjwatson> ScottK: it stinks of a change in the choice identifiers in partman not being handled by the ubiquity kde frontend
<skaet> ara,  sounds good.
<cjwatson> ara: thanks, that's a good plan
<ara> That's all from me
<robbiew> thanks ara!
<ara> robbiew, anytime
<ttx> smoser: see quetsion above
<robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew to clone ara...a few times :P
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew to clone ara...a few times :P
<ttx> <ttx> smoser: comment on lack of testing of  Ubuntu Server EC2 EBS (Asia-Pacific) amd64 ?
<smoser> yeah. so i tried for 2 days or so, but was unable to get sufficient number of instances started in the ap-southeast-1 region
<smoser> from time to time, ec2 hits the ends of their hardware, and creation of instances ends in "Insufficient Capacity".
<smoser> it is quite a pain, but there is really nothing I can do about it.
<smoser> (my tests could be written better to not expect to run all instances at once, they should be reworked for that, but i haven't had time).
<skaet> smoser, can they be reworked before rc?
<smoser> i'd rather not.
<robbiew> heh...yeah
<robbiew> I think they have higher priority items
<robbiew> may need to be a post Maverick work item
<smoser> but it is something that should be done. i think only twice has it bitten me.
<smoser> usually over time of a couple days i can get sufficient resources to do it.
<robbiew> smoser: okay...thnx for the update
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Security update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security update
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> so, really the only beta bug was LP: #623586
<jdstrand> bug #623586
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 623586 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "apparmor /var/lib/ghostscript/fonts/Fontmap" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623586
<robbiew> cool
<jdstrand> this required a change to the apparmor abstractions due to gs moving away from defoma
<jdstrand> I fixed that this morning
<jdstrand> other than that, I don't know of any pressing beta-related security team bugs
<robbiew> nice...any questions for Security?
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Kernel status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel status
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<ogasawara> I haven't heard of any kitten killers for the beta kernel but we'll keep tracking incoming issues through the weekend.  All our Beta bugs addresed in last week's meeting should be resolved.  We've also updated our specs and looking to be on track for the 10.10 release.
<ogasawara> Not much else exciting to report really.
<ogra> note that there will be a bunch of possible changes for omap ahead
<ogra> (which i only heard about today in a call)
<robbiew> when is the *real* kernel freeze date...like when you all start building the packages
<robbiew> ogasawara: ^
<ogasawara> ogasawara: in theory I'm going to push for the date noted in the release schedule (Sept 16).
<ogasawara> wow, robbiew ^^
<robbiew> heh
<ogasawara> robbiew: after that, we're going to enforce our SRU policy (but be a critical bug fix or stable update)
<robbiew> sounds good to me
<robbiew> ogasawara: I wasn't trying to be a smart ass ;)  I thought you all stopped accepting changes a few days before the date
<robbiew> to allow time to build them all
<robbiew> any questions for Kernel?
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Foundations
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations
<robbiew> besides the installer bugs...anything else cjwatson?
<cjwatson> hi, I was going to list some hot bugs, and then ara beat me to it
<robbiew> heh
<ara> cjwatson, you can comment the wubi upgrades, ;-)
<cjwatson> a few other things came up during beta testing such as broken wubi upgrades; there's a patch in maverick now for it (modulo build times), bug 617715
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 617715 in Wubi "10.10 Upgrade goes to Grub Prompt" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/617715
<cjwatson> ara: damnit
<ogra> lol
<cjwatson> I was honestly just typing that
<cjwatson> anyway, I'd appreciate retesting of upgrades from lucid-wubi to maverick
<ScottK> FYI, Bug #628930 will likely require a (somewhat planned) mesa update to fix and it's pretty essential for the Kubuntu netbook experience.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628930 in mesa (Ubuntu Maverick) "Desktop effects not active by default" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628930
<cjwatson> has anyone like Chris Rogers looked at that?
<rickspencer3> ScottK, Mesa 7.9 will fix that?
<cjwatson> mesa is kind of in the X bin in my had
<cjwatson> head
<rickspencer3> cjwatson, Chris very much wants to move to Mesa 7.9
<ScottK> rickspencer3: It helps a lot (tested today).
<rickspencer3> he is debugging some issues iwth it though
<ScottK> X is foundations, right?
<rickspencer3> (or sounds like maybe already did)
<rickspencer3> ScottK, X is desktop
<cjwatson> I believe there are still a few grub-won't-boot-on-some-machine bugs, and whether we'll be able to deal with thaose, will see
<ScottK> Oh.  Sorry.  Wrong section.  I take it back.
<cjwatson> sorry for poorly-formed report today, am a bit fried from being emergency holographic release engineer
<cjwatson> um, we could use help looking at the couple of targeted plymouth bugs
<ogra> three cheers for cjwatson everyone, we wouldnt have beta without him !
<cjwatson> since Keybuk's been almost entirely on other things this cycle
<cjwatson> robbiew: ^- maybe something we should assign somebody on the foundations team to have a look at
 * ogra is always surprised that one human can do all that work 
<robbiew> cjwatson: ack
<robbiew> maybe we'll just pull slangasek back for a month :P
<robbiew> cjwatson: anything else?
<cjwatson> that's all folks
<robbiew> thnx!
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Server status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server status
<ttx> o/
<ttx> robbiew: so you caught me off-guard with meeting cancellations
<robbiew> no worries
<ttx> our release status page is half-updated :)
<robbiew> not looking for anything "official"
<ttx> I few highlights...
<robbiew> just things we should be aware of
<ttx> During iso testing we uncovered eucalyptus issues running on simple topologies
<ttx> it now seems to work better on complex topologies than on simple :)
<robbiew> heh
 * robbiew bites his tongue ;)
<ttx> so we have a load of RC-bugs covering that
<ttx> Still workable though
<robbiew> I also noticed bug 628400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628400 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "[regression] boot degraded question never posed" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628400
<ttx> right, so we have also quite a few bugs that are not directly in our realm
<robbiew> it's highly improbable that this is plymouth...but we'll look at it from the mdadm side
<cjwatson> we'll figure something out for you about the grub timeout issue too
<ttx> http://tinyurl.com/39ucrpc
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://tinyurl.com/39ucrpc
<cjwatson> can we not have shortened links here?
<ttx> that's the list of bugs tagged server-mro, which should autobuild the list in the report of "bugs that we care about, in other teams"
<cjwatson> mind you that is a heck of a link.  you can trim out lots of the fields though ...
<ttx> cjwatson: sorry for the laziness
<cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=server-mro
<ttx> cjwatson: heh
<robbiew> heh
<robbiew> ttx: I think I'm actually okay with only 12 there
<ttx> so, mostly needing foundations help:
<ttx> Bug 563916
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563916 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "[details.so] No prompt for [S]kip or [M]anual recovery on server boot (or without "splash")" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563916
<robbiew> yeah yeah
<ttx> Bug 628400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628400 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "[regression] boot degraded question never posed" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628400
<ttx> Bug 621951
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621951 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "udevd-work[674]: kernel-provided name 'dm-5' and NAME= 'mapper/main-server1a--lu cid-cow' disagree, please use SYMLINK+= or change the kernel to provide the prop er name " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621951
<ttx> and on kernel's plate:
<ttx> Bug 621175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621175 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "-virtual kernel contains too many modules" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621175
<cjwatson> 621951 needs coordinated uploads of lvm2 and parted to switch over to the new naming scheme
<cjwatson> fortunately grub2 is already prepared
<ttx> Bug 613083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613083 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Maverick) "user-data is corrupted inside metadata service" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613083
<ttx> Bug 606373
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606373 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Maverick) "cloud-init output does not get to console when booted with pv-grub and ramdisk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606373
<cjwatson> (621951 is probably basically a merge or cherry-pick from Debian)
<cjwatson> I'll keep the server-mro list open and make sure we do our end of things, anyway
<ttx> cjwatson: thanks !
<ogasawara> ttx: 621175 I have a theory about, I want to see the 2.6.35-20.29 that's currently building finish to confirm
<robbiew> ttx: anything else?
<ttx> robbiew: no :)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Desktop update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop update
<Riddell> I can do Kubuntu :)
 * ScottK steps behind Riddell.
<Riddell>  - http://tinyurl.com/33p7vu3  16 milestoned bugs, the most notable ones are installer bugs already discussed
<Riddell>  - KDE SC 4.5.1 uploaded and built except on ARM
<Riddell>  - KDE SC 4.5.2 due October 5th, so I don't except it to be in final
<Riddell>  - kubuntu mobile image successfully made for beta, but the mobile workspace itself didn't actually work, so some fixes to be done there
<Riddell>  - lucid and maverick upgrade notifications need testing still
<Riddell>  - thanks to ev and cjwatson for lots of awesomeness during beta
<cjwatson> the kubuntu mobile image only actually got published on the very day of beta
<cjwatson> so it's impressive if it boots, in my book
<robbiew> heh
<ogra> Riddell, any idea why everything failed on ARM ?
<Riddell> ogra: what failed?
<ogra> we were down to only 4 FTBFS packages in main (and only koffice among them for KDE) but with todays queue flush it seems that all of KDE fails again
<Riddell> probably some builds needed retried for the 4.5.1 upload today, that's not unusual, they'll get done
<ogra> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ armel turned into a big red column suddenly
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ armel turned into a big red column suddenly
<ScottK> ogra: archive skew.
 * ogra pokes the bot 
<ogra> ah, k
<Riddell> I think they're just waiting on kdebindings which always takes ages
<ogra> its on the failed list
<ScottK> Actually we're not even that far.
<ogra> (again)
<ScottK> pimlibs still building.
<ScottK> (last I looked).
<ScottK> In any case nothing concerning yet.
<ogra> k
<Riddell> just needs patience :)
 * ogra puts the ftbfs filter glasses on then :)
<robbiew> anything else for Kubuntu?  /me wants to keep the run-over to a minimum ;)
<Riddell> I'm done
<ScottK> Now: FYI, Bug #628930 will likely require a (somewhat planned) mesa update to fix and it's pretty essential for the Kubuntu netbook experience.
<seb128> hey
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 628930 in mesa (Ubuntu Maverick) "Desktop effects not active by default" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/628930
<robbiew> ScottK: ack...noted, thnx
<robbiew> seb128: all yours
<seb128> sorry I'm trying to work with launchpad guys to get the retracers back
<seb128> I've not a lot prepared
<seb128> desktop seems mostly in shape
<seb128> UNE still needs some work
<seb128> I think dbarth will cover most of unity issues next
<robbiew> yep...but no surprise
<seb128> I've been trying to clean https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+nominations
<seb128> I denied some 200 nominations since yesterday
<robbiew> wow..thanks!
<robbiew> that list is a beast
<seb128> I think lot of people use the nominations as "affect this version"
<skaet> seb128,  cool.
<robbiew> agree
<seb128> we should perhaps restrict who can suggest a nomination
<seb128> but help from other teams to clean would be welcome
<seb128> there is lot of linux tasks there
<seb128> I've been rejecting all the needs-packaging or bugs open for years without activity
<seb128> but each team should be able to decide better on its bugs for non obvious ones
<ogasawara> seb128: I or JFo can go through the linux tasks
<seb128> ogasawara, that would be appreciated, thanks!
<robbiew> ogasawara: thnx...I vote for JFo :P
<ara> can I nominate one?
 * ogasawara too :)
<seb128> btw GNOME 2.32 will be monday in 10 days
<seb128> ie just before the freeze
<seb128> just for information ;-)
<robbiew> ack
<seb128> I think that's it from me
<ara> Please, desktop team, fix gwibber
<ara> I miss gwibber. I need to procrastinate a little bit. And I need real time updates on where the merkaat is.
<robbiew> ara: heh..they are WELL aware of the gwibber issues
<robbiew> trust me ;)
<seb128> ara, if you have bugs please give me the numbers
<seb128> I will target those
<ara> bug 628686
<ara> bug 620139
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/628686)
<seb128> it' difficult right now to build a team list of issues, not sure how other teams do that
<seb128> I've opted to clean https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+nominations
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/620139)
<seb128> then I will try to set of a json query of maverick tasks in the desktop set
<robbiew> seb128: should we target bug 569273
<seb128> with some tweaks to add firefox, xorg, etc or watch those as well
<seb128> bug #569273
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/569273)
<seb128> thanks ubottu
<robbiew> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/569273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569273 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Maverick) "memory leak in gnome-power-manager" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569273 in indicator-application (Ubuntu Maverick) "memory leak in gnome-power-manager" [Medium,Triaged]
<robbiew> or is that DX
<seb128> it seems triaged as it should
<seb128> it's assigned to karl who is contracting to do dx work
<davidbarth> hmm, don't think so
<robbiew> seb128: as for how other teams build a team list...I think we all have our own magic unfortunately...but I think skaet is going to try and help us :D
<seb128> will check with them if he's still working on it
<davidbarth> ah right, this one
<robbiew> target is maverick-alpha-2 :/
<davidbarth> it's a note that we can leak mem a bit here, but the leak is not really significant
<robbiew> sorry milestone
<seb128> skaet, I'm interested to work with you on that
<skaet> seb128,  me too with you.
<seb128> skaet, great ;-)
<robbiew> thnx seb128...moving on to DX
<robbiew> [TOPIC] DX update
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX update
<davidbarth> uhuh, DX
<davidbarth> hi
<robbiew> davidbarth: anything urgent to report
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Desktop Experience
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience
<robbiew> geez
<ogra> heh, you're fast :)
<davidbarth> we have freeze exception requests pending, but on the desktop front things are getting weel
<davidbarth> well
<davidbarth> ie appmenu got most of the fixes we wanted
<davidbarth> we're still working on unity issues: perf., quicklist inconsistencies,
<davidbarth> 14 critical or high prio bugs in scope for unity, but i feel we can handle that next week, considering the bug closing rate of past weeks
<davidbarth> so to answer the question, no, i think that the bug fixing part is under control now
<robbiew> heh...you've just jinxed yourself ;)
<davidbarth> the massive mem leak of unity got a fix today, to everyone's relief: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/604777 in particular
<robbiew> *\o/*
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/604777)
<robbiew> any questions for Desktop Experience?
<robbiew> thnx davidbarth
<robbiew> [TOPIC] ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
<robbiew> last but not least ;)
<robbiew> ogra?
<ogra> we found bugs during beta testing :)
<ogra> thats it ... for the past ...
<ogra> for the future ...
<ogra> we just recieved new HW rigth at beta date ...
<ogra> which is incompatible with the old stuff
<robbiew> heh
<ogra> so we have kernel and bootloader updates pending that have to happen now
<robbiew> sounds like fun times :/
<ogra> kernel went in already, but its untested and we dont know what possible issues it will have
<ogra> thats what you get when you pick to work in the arm team :)
<robbiew> the few...the proud..the brave ;)
<robbiew> thnx ogra
<ogra> anyway, there might be some intrusive changes but they will only affect arm
<ogra> thats all
<robbiew> any questions for ARM?
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Any Other Business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business?
<robbiew> including MOTU status ;)
<skaet> and Linaro ;)
<robbiew> nah..they have their own meeitng ;)
<robbiew> unless they broke us :PO
<robbiew> once...
<skaet> heh
<robbiew> twice....
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:13.
<robbiew> ..and that's that ;)
<robbiew> thnx all!
<ara> cheers!
<robbiew> try to enjoy your weekend....the long one for the US ;)
<robbiew> and remember...the bugs will be there when you get back
<skaet> thanks robbiew
<seb128> thanks robbiew, skaet
<ogra> thanks
<Kjenka> Anyone to send me an invite for Gmail ?, it now says i need one in my country
<robbiew> skaet: I'll update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2010-09-03 as well as the /Agenda redirect ;)
<skaet> robbiew,  ok - I'll edit it to reflect the content from today's meeting.
<skaet> so we've got the tracking.
<robbiew> skaet: sounds like a plan...will ping you when I've saved my changes
<skaet> cool.
<Guest18528> How do
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-04
<duqueutp> hola, buena tarde a todos los ubuntuco
<duqueutp> soy nuevo en esto del ubuntu
<duqueutp> resulta que hace ya poco mas de un ano que stoy con ubuntu y me encanto este sistema es lo mejor
<duqueutp> y como digo windows tiene pqek al lado de ubuntu
<duqueutp> pero bueno mi razon de estar aqui es que quiero aprender aun mas sobre este hermoso y exelente sistema operativo
<duqueutp> si allguno de uds me pudiera guiar le estaria agradecido eternamente
<farahduk> hola
<farahduk> hola
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-09-05
<checho> hola, necesito un poco de ayuda de uds
<checho> como arreglo el problema de firefox que no se ve el video en youtube
<checho> uso ubuntu 10.04
<Pendulum> !es | checho
<ubottu> checho: En la mayorÃ­a de canales de Ubuntu se habla sÃ³lo en inglÃ©s. Si busca ayuda en espaÃ±ol o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.
<checho> ok gracias
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-29
<cody-somerville> bdrung, persia, Laney, geser, stgraber: ping
<stgraber> pong, though on a call
<stgraber> IIRC we only have one name on the agenda and said we'd review it at our next meeting as it's less than a week old
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<stgraber> e-mail from Laney to devel-permissions last week
<stgraber> cody-somerville: I also offered cyphermox to sponsor any usb-modeswitch upload he has to do until our next meeting as I'm quite familiar with the work he's been doing on it
<bdrung> cody-somerville: pong. :)
<jelmer> bdrung: Sorry, forgot to update you on lptools earlier. lifeless is happy with me adding myself as uploader to lptools, so I'm going to do that and get the current version in sid.
<ara> hello all
<bdrung> jelmer: np. i hadn't time to look at the proposed merges for u-d-t
<ara> anyone for the UF meeting?
<akgraner> o/
<victorp> o/
<ara> akgraner, cool
<ara> OK, getting started
 * ara hopes that people realised of the change of room
<ara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 15:02:43 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<ara> agenda:
<ara> * Mockups!
<ara> Today we have a very small agenda
<ara> #topic Mockups!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Mockups!
<meetingology> TOPIC: Mockups!
<ara> This week we are working in getting the basics of the UF programme ready to be used
<ara> One of the things that we are doing is to try to understand how the UF should look like
<ara> We came up with this mock up:
<ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/MockUps
<ara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/MockUps
<ara> The home page shows the different configurations and their rating
<ara> and some filters to find the information you need to find
<ara> We are trying to solve the problem of the different configurations, while having a simple UI
<ara> Once anyone clicks on one of this configurations, the config page
<ara> shows
<ara> where you can see the different results for that configuration
<ara> with the complete list of components
<ara> and similar models based on the model name
<ara> ..
<ara> Anybody have any comments / suggestions?
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead :D
<roadmr> we talked about a link to a comments page, to be hosted in launchpad answers, just to make sure that doesn't get forgotten :)
<roadmr> ..
<ara> roadmr, I remember something like that from the last meeting
<ara> what kind of information we should put on lp answers?
<ara> ..
<roadmr> like if any user has a comment on the system
<roadmr> "the default drivers don't work, use the broadcom proprietary ones"
<roadmr> "update to bios version x.xx and then everything works well"
<roadmr> "you need a dkms package to enable full touchpad functionality, get it here http:/xxxxxx"
<roadmr> stuff like that - a comment like that would be useful for the model of laptop I have, for instance
<roadmr> everything works well save for the trackpad, but a simple dkms module enables it
<roadmr> ..
<akgraner> o/
<ara> akgraner, you go
<akgraner> while all those comments would be great that roadmr mentioned - none of the "regular ole end users" would even know how to do those things
<roadmr> o/
<akgraner> or even comment on them so keeping the technical stuff answers on LP answers would be good
<akgraner> could we also use Ask Ubuntu as another resource?...
 * ara waits a bit to see if akgraner has finished
<akgraner> ... (yep) sorry
<ara> roadmr, you go
<roadmr> heh .. so I see akgraner's point, but having a way to either ask or see comments about a system is important
<roadmr> otherwise people won't know where to go for that kind of stuff (and it *will* come up)
<roadmr> and when they get mad about their devices not working even though the system had 4 stars, they'll complain anywhere they can heh
<roadmr> ..
<ara> I like it, maybe we can use one "question" per system for the comments
<ara> but yes, something that we need to study how to get it right
<ara> ..
<ara> Any other comments on the mockups?
<ara> akgraner, how do you like them?
<akgraner> I like them and I like the search option
<akgraner> they seem easy to point people too
<akgraner> ..
<ara> good :)
<ara> anything else? or shall we move on?
<ara> OK, moving on then
<ara> #topic - Any Other Business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: - Any Other Business?
<meetingology> TOPIC: - Any Other Business?
<ara> (this meeting is going to be fast)
<akgraner> o/
<ara> akgraner, go ahead
<akgraner> Global Jam
<akgraner> I volunteered my LUG and LoCo team to go through system testing
<ara> perfect!
<akgraner> and I'll have the slides ready for your review sometime today
<akgraner> that way I can point out pain points or questions
<akgraner> I've also had other LoCo teams standing by for testing for release party time
<akgraner> ..
<ara> akgraner, awesome, send them in, and I will review them
<akgraner> will do thanks
<ara> when is global jam?
<akgraner> ..
<ara> (exactly)
<ara> Ok, this weekend
<akgraner> Sept 2-4
<ara> perfect, we want to have a new Checkbox version ready in Oneiric with the UF tests ready
<ara> for this weekend
<akgraner> great!  Let me know when they are in place and I'll replace the screenshots I have
<ara> ..
<akgraner> ..
<ara> akgraner, it shouldn't affect your screenshots, it will look the same, but with more tests
<akgraner> nods
<ara> OK, any other stuff?
<akgraner> that's all I got
<akgraner> ..
<ara> going once
<ara> going twice
<ara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 29 15:23:56 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-29-15.02.moin.txt
<ara> Thanks all!
<roadmr> \o/ thanks!
<akgraner> thanks ara!
<jdstrand> hi!
<kees> \o
<jjohansen> o/
<jdstrand> let's get started
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 17:01:35 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<meetingology> TOPIC: Announcements
<jdstrand> tyhicks starts on the Ubuntu Security team today. He will be working on security updates for Ubuntu in general, as well as ecryptfs and other interesting stuff. Welcome!
<tyhicks> jdstrand: Thank you!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: Welcome!
<jjohansen> tyhicks: good to have you on board
<tyhicks> I really appreciate it and am excited to dive in
 * jdstrand hugs tyhicks 
<jdstrand> :)
<tyhicks> :)
<jdstrand> in other news, mdeslaur is off this week
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<meetingology> TOPIC: Weekly stand-up report
<bliss> hooray more ubuntu security team members
<jdstrand> so, I have a lot of disparate things going on right now. with mdeslaur out, I figured I would do both triager and community work this week
<sbeattie> jdstrand: you sure? I can pick up triaging this week if you like
<jdstrand> in addition to that I plan to get back to defining dbus/apparmor tests and my metrics work items (neither of which I got to last week)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I'm sure-- this will allow you guys to have more time for remaining work items, etc
<jdstrand> that said, it isn't something I plan on doing regularly :P
<sbeattie> heh
<jdstrand> I think that's it from me. kees?
<bliss> paging /proc commander
<kees> I'm going to be focusing on work item bits, documentation, and anything else that comes up. there are a few kernel updates in the pipe for the ARM flavors as well.
<jdstrand> hehe
 * kees pokes bliss in the eye :)
 * jdstrand loves that title btw :)
<kees> that's about it from me.
<kees> heh
<jdstrand> awesome ring to it
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'll be cleaning up my work items this week, spending time on apparmor stuff.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me, I may pick up an update in the background.
<jdstrand> micahg: you're next
<micahg> chromium going out today, a little behind on the Firefox 6 migration for maverick, that should at least get built this week, depending on whether or not it'll impact the beta due to buildd time for translations, we might not move to proposed after beta, patch piloting, then back to webkit if there's time
<micahg> *until after beta
<micahg> that's it I think
<jdstrand> tyhicks: you're next
<tyhicks> My main focus will be on the new hire tasks (setting up accounts, configuring applications, joining proper mailing lists, etc.). When not working on those things, I'll need to tend to the eCryptfs bug and mailing list backlog that built up while leaving my old employer and last week while I was ignoring all things electronic. :)
<jdstrand> cool
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<meetingology> TOPIC: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/collectd.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/firebird2.1.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openarena.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lxr.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cakephp.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<meetingology> TOPIC: Miscellaneous and Questions
<bliss> haha lxr
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is there anything specific you need from me at this point to assist with dbus/apparmor? I am defining and implementing test cases (or at least as much as I can without the syntax and packages) right now
<jjohansen> ah yeah
<jjohansen> I will actually have some packages for you to test today
 * jjohansen has a few more revisions to test but /me thinks we have chased down the crashers that kept taking the bus down
<jjohansen> basically jdstrand I need to work with you on the policy language a bit
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ack. thanks again for all your work on that! :)
<jjohansen> but we can do that in #apparmor
 * jdstrand nods
 * jdstrand encourages sbeattie and kees to at least listen in as well if they have time
<jdstrand> but that probably isn't super required right now, as I imagine we'll be iterating it a bit and then submitting to the list
<sbeattie> sure
 * kees nods
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> go once..
<jdstrand> going twice..
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 29 17:21:13 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot . (v 0.1.4)
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-29-17.01.moin.txt
<jdstrand> thanks everyone! :)
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<kees> thanks jdstrand!
<AlanBell> #startmeeting test meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 18:08:36 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endmeetingforce #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | test meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> #topic foo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | test meeting Meeting | Current topic:  foo
<AlanBell> #topic bar
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | test meeting Meeting | Current topic:  bar
<AlanBell> #votesrequired 3
<meetingology> votes now need 3 to be passed
<AlanBell> #vote test vote
<meetingology> Please vote on: test vote
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<AlanBell> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
<AlanBell> anyone else want to vote?
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<AlanBell> elky: what do you think of the current /topic behaviour?
<AlanBell> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: test vote
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<AlanBell> #chair pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: AlanBell pleia2
<AlanBell> #subtopic this is like a topic but less so
<AlanBell> turns up in the minutes in a list
<AlanBell> there is #endmeetingforce now which will allow anyone to close a running meeting if one is left open
<micahg> AlanBell: would you like me to test that?
<AlanBell> and you can do "#startmeeting Loco Council" or whatever to put the meeting name in the logs
<AlanBell> micahg: go ahead
<micahg> #endmeetingforce
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 29 18:13:04 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-29-18.08.moin.txt
<stgraber> AlanBell: is that something you could potentially restrict to /ubuntu/members or similar? (not that I think we need it at this point)
<AlanBell> still loads of bugs in the output, but the command bugs are mostly gone now
<pleia2> AlanBell: could it be something like anyone with ops? (all ubuntu members have ops)
<pleia2> well, all with the member cloak can *get* ops anyway
<AlanBell> yeah, if I can figure out how to do that
<AlanBell> I think I would like that command to listen just to people who have opped up
<AlanBell> you can do "+1 awesome" now
<pleia2> great
<AlanBell> so it does general votes and quorum votes now
<AlanBell> I will be working next on the output formatting I think
<AlanBell> and a #reprocess command, so you can do "#reprocess http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/08/13/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt" and it will replay the logs to itself taking minutes of each meeting and giving the URL to the formatted output
<pleia2> sweet
<AlanBell> then Loco Team Portal integration (aka Loco Directory)
<elky> AlanBell, that's great, much less confusing now :)
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 22:45:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<AlanBell> elky: want to try to #endmeeting, then op up and #endmeeting
<m4v> #endmeeting
<AlanBell> one is running
<AlanBell> now with ops
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> AlanBell: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
<m4v> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 29 22:52:37 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-29-22.45.moin.txt
<AlanBell> \o/
<m4v> BWAHJAHAHA.,,, oh
<AlanBell> :)
<elky> yay
<elky> AlanBell, sorry, at work
<AlanBell> thats fine
<AlanBell> I am off to bed now, but didn't want to leave it deployed but untested :)
<pleia2> thanks AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> the #votesrequired command got deployed too
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-30
<Daviey> zul: Are you chairing?
<zul> no that was last week
<Daviey> zul: Agenda says you? :P
<hallyn> \o
<zul> Daviey: agenda is wrong
<jamespage> o/
<Daviey> zul: It didn't get updated?  Do you have ACTIONS listed from last week?
<zul> Daviey: there was no actions last week
<smb> \o
<Daviey> super!
<Daviey> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 30 16:01:31 2011 UTC.  The chair is Daviey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Daviey> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<Daviey> None
<Daviey> Unless anyone has anything?
<Daviey> #Oneiric Development
<Daviey> #topic Oneiric Development
<Daviey> So BETA 1 release this Thursday!
<Daviey> eep
<zul> time flies
<jamespage> yikes!
<Daviey> In general, we are looking pretty good.
<Daviey> Smoke testing of the canddiates is appreciated
 * Ursinha is testing 
<Daviey> Long view, issues being tracked for Oneiric . http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> Some are milestoned with the ambition of being on b1.. good luck with that
<Daviey> Any issues not present, please raise them as soon as possible and let me know about them.
<Daviey> * Really * Please * If * a bug * needs * to * be * fixed * in Oneiric * for *server * please * tell me * if it *isn't on that * list *
<Daviey> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/group/topic-oneiric-server-overview.html <-- needs to be kept up to date with WI's
<Daviey> Incoming bug count seems to be slim, but useful.
<Daviey> Anything from anyone else?
<Ursinha> Daviey: bugs assigned to ubuntu-server and targeted to b1, is that ok?
<Ursinha> bug 791607
<Daviey> Ursinha: Ones already on the list?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791607 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Oneiric Eucalyptus fails to start up" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791607
<Ursinha> yes
<Ursinha> as you said "good luck with that", I wonder if that's true or can be moved
<Daviey> Ursinha: That is a concern, upstream eucalyptus have started to be move involved.
<Ursinha> right
<Daviey> The milestone was realy set to show it's importance and keep it on peoples radar.
<Daviey> But it will not be fixed for b1.
<Daviey> Unless we are really lucky :)
<Ursinha> right then
<Daviey> When B1 is pressed, i'll update all the milestones we care about for b2.
<Daviey> Anything with anyone else?
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<Daviey> (wish i knew what is up with meetingology )
<Daviey> Any events people are attending soonish?
<hallyn> plumber's next week
<Daviey> Ah yes! Anyone going to Linux Plumbers.. do say hello to hallyn, and ask for 1:1 support for LXC issues.
<Daviey> no other events?
<zul> openstack conference and design summit coming up
<Daviey> Week of Oct 3rd!
<Daviey> Places still open.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<Daviey> hggdh: Hello sir!
<Daviey> I guess hggdh is afk.. will return to him in a bit.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Most effort going into solving bug #832207 before oneiric release...
<Daviey> smb: Hello!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832207 in xen (Ubuntu) "HVM guest hangs on block io" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832207
<smb> There is a patch for xen to make that work (for pre 2.6.39 kernels at least)....
<smb> unfortunately without any network because the emulated nic gets no interrupts either....
<Daviey> :/
<smb> which is fixed by another patch recently received for testing
<smb> ...however....
<Daviey> smb: Upstream xen are working on the issue with you?
<smb> Daviey, yep
<smb> this triggers an issue with ipxe... so the boot hangs on the bios
<hggdh> Daviey: OTP on a conflicting meeting, will be available shortly
<Daviey> hggdh: ok, thans.
<smb> I am able to boot by forcefully not taking any boot proms
<smb> And Stefano said, that upstream ipxe seems to work for him as well... not tested locallly though
<Daviey> smb: Think it's likely to be fixed by B2?
<smb> That only leaves me with pv spinlocks hanging the boot of all 3.0 kernels in hvm mode...
<smb> Daviey, Maybe... :-/
<smb> Unfortunately every step seems to be into a new issue so far...
<Daviey> smb: thanks! Just out of interest, is this on the xen devel mailing list?
<Daviey> smb: Sounds like fun!
<smb> Daviey, No, doing some direct mails with Stefano from Citrix
<Daviey> ah ok, thanks
<smb> Daviey, Endless source of joy :)
<Daviey> heh
<Daviey> smb: bug 790712?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<Daviey> jamespage: Thanks for joining us :)
<smb> Daviey, Ignored to the best of my abilities so far
<Daviey> smb: I don't think it's been checked if that is on the B1 candidates.
<utlemming> smb:  do you have the bug on splinlooks?
<Daviey> hggdh: Are you able to confirm that is still valid on B1 candidates?
<smb> utlemming, Not yet... I am pretty bad with opening those
<hggdh> Daviey: I have not seen it again
<smb> Daviey, hggdh I thought that I read somethign somewhere which I thought it might be related but completely blanked it now... :(
<Daviey> hggdh: That is good, right? :)
<smb> Oh... actually remember
<hggdh> Daviey: not really -- we bypassed it by allocating more memory to the VMs
<Daviey> smb / hggdh: if you see, or get reminded of it again.. lets poke more. :)
<Daviey> hggdh: Seems like a valid work around. :)
<hggdh> heh
<smb> I think there was something wrong with compressed swap ...
<hggdh> smb: please go ahead, I am interested :-)
<apw> smb, yes there is something very wrong with compressed swap, i am trying to get it sorted in casper
<Daviey> hallyn: bug 827798 is still minor, right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827798 in lxc (Ubuntu) "LXC works without warning regardless if cgroup namespaces are properly available" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827798
<hallyn> Daviey: yes
<Daviey> good stuff
<Daviey> Anything else for kernel?
<smb> apw, Though that means its not fixed yet... which would amke it unrelated to the breakage not happenign anymore.
<hallyn> Daviey: let's retarget 827798 and i'll patch it after freeze is over
<Daviey> Do people /really/ used compressed swap?
<smb> Anyway... No nothing more from me...
<Daviey> hallyn: good cookies.
<smb> Daviey, I think its used by the installer to allow smallish RAM installs
<Daviey> smb: BTW, the care we have for powerpc flavour is sub-zero :)
<Daviey> smb: Ah! But only for squashfs?
 * smb does not care much even before... :)
<Daviey> Thanks smb for the update.. appreciate it!
<smb> Daviey, It could be completely not relevant for server install
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<Daviey> hggdh: Hello sir!
<hggdh> OK
<hggdh> still on the phone, but just hearing now ;-)
<Daviey> hggdh: So.. QA for Beta 1.. how do we look?
<hggdh> we need to get the ensemble and cobbler tests jotted down ASAP
<hggdh> server tests are almost all done; we still need help on RAID1 and iSCSI
<SpamapS> hggdh: I've got some scripts you can use as a guide.
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx / adam_g: Do you have a spare cycle to assit hggdh in writing cobbler setup?
<hggdh> SpamapS: perfect
<Daviey> SpamapS: for ensemble only, right?
<adam_g> Daviey: yeah, i can lend a hand.
<SpamapS> hggdh: builds a chroot.. installs ensemble.. starts wp/mysql and curls for the title page.
<Daviey> adam_g: rocking!
<hggdh> also -- please add to http://pad.ubuntu.com/qa-server-o
<SpamapS> hggdh: you just have to manually configure the ssh key and environments.yaml
<Daviey> SpamapS: sounds like a good standaline.
<Daviey> hggdh was going to work on also testing a minimal formail against cobbler for bare metal.
<SpamapS> lp:~clint-fewbar/ensemble/jenkins-test-suite
<RoAkSoAx> yeah and I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong in the uec0-plat test-rig as add-apt-repository does not work
<SpamapS> misc/jenkins
<RoAkSoAx> :)
<Daviey> s/fromail/formula
<Daviey> SpamapS: Can you bombared hggdh with help in getting that online?
<SpamapS> indeed
<Daviey> \o/
<hggdh> SpamapS: branching now
<Daviey> Anything else for testing?
<SpamapS> also on the RAID1 test .. I think somebody else should do it
<SpamapS> I did a bunch of RAID1 iterating and some fixes this last 2 weeks..
<Daviey> Ursinha / jamepage : anything?
<SpamapS> better that somebody untainted by that do the tests.
<Daviey> smoser / utlemming / jamespage : Test plan for cloud images testing?
<jamespage> Daviey: I will be working on the openstack test topologies this week
<Daviey> jamespage: Great!  Can you try to put as much of that on the wiki as possible? ;)
<Daviey> I don't think deploying openstack via ensemble, via cobbler is a visable QA testing this milestone.
<Daviey> but next, i think it will be vital
<jamespage> right
<adam_g> jamespage: sweet, if/when you branch those openstack formulas, they now live in principia proper
<Daviey> Who is the contact this milestone for AWS testing of the images?
<jamespage> it will just be a 'follow these steps' for this release - we can automate it later
<Ursinha> no sir
<Daviey> jamespage: sounds good to me!
<Daviey> utlemming / smoser ?
<smoser> utlemming kicked off (i believe) another images build. we will begin test when that comes out.
<jamespage> Daviey: I run the tests - they should publish out to jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com
<Daviey> Beta Freeze.. what is that for eh? :)
<smoser> i suppose i or utlemming need to get with jamespage to figure out if we can kick that off ourselves. or if we are still at his mercy to do so.
<Daviey> utlemming: Is it safe to assume the latest that will drop on is B1 candidate?
<jamespage> smoser: we should be able to figure it out - need to catchup with patrickmw
<Daviey> smoser / jamespage / utlemming: Really, the jenkins testing should be more controled by QA.
<Daviey> super
<jamespage> Daviey: agreed - and its my problem as I've not completed the handover
<Ursinha> +1
<jamespage> sorry
<smoser> that is all fine with me. i just need to push a button, or ask someone to push a button.
<Daviey> jamespage: Oh, don;t be
<Daviey> I hate the fact that the output of jenkins needs to be manually put into the QA tracker.
<jamespage> :-)
<jamespage> me to
<Daviey> I think that could/should be automated.
<hggdh> Daviey: you do not hate it as much as we that do it
<Daviey> heh
<Ursinha> did I hear automation?
<Ursinha> is that too complex or we lack people to do so?
<SpamapS> we control the QA code base right?
<Daviey> hggdh / jamespage / Ursinha: you might be interested in the post-ami-to-tracker.py.. uses HTTP to 'automate'. .. not exactly an API
<SpamapS> So we could just write an importer for jenkins data, could we not?
<Daviey> but might have goodness that can be stolen.
<Ursinha> Daviey: where is that?
<Daviey> SpamapS: that is the hope :)
<Daviey> Ursinha: lp:ubuntu-archive-tools IIRC
<Ursinha> cool, thanks Daviey :)
<Daviey> Maybe something that can be achieved for B2 :)
<jamespage> well maybe
<Daviey> If someone is going to work on that.. make sure you make it known, to avoid duplication.
<Daviey> Moving on?
<smoser> if i had to chose between copying data once a alpha/beta and getting automated daily test
<smoser> i'd chose fully automated daily test
<Daviey> true
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (NCommander)
<smoser> ie, if someone is going to work on something, i'd rather tham work on getting daily tests of our ec2 images than on syncing jenkins output to iso tracker
<Ursinha> smoser: notes
<Ursinha> noted*
<Daviey> NCommander: around?
<AlanBell> oops, I broke meetingology a bit :(
<Daviey> ogra_ .. seen NCommander ? :)
<AlanBell> I will go fix, and reprocess this meeting, carry on as if it was working . . .
<Daviey> AlanBell: i noticed :)
<Daviey> Thankfully AlanBell's fail will be documented in the meeting logs for eternity.
<Daviey> (i jest.)
 * AlanBell makes a note to edit the logs to make it look like Daviey's fault
<Daviey> heh
<ogra_> Daviey, he's somewhere on the road
<Daviey> NCommander: When you read this.. it's starting to become an issue this slot?
<Daviey> We really need more updates on the status of ARM server.. it's like a low powered black box.
<Daviey> Thanks ogra_
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<Daviey> kim0|holiday: I assume you are on holiday? :)
<Daviey> Any news from the floor?
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<zul> we have a new guy dont we?
<Daviey> We do!
<Daviey> rbasak: Hello sir!
<rbasak> Hello!
 * hallyn waves
<Daviey> The latest addition to ~ubuntu-server team!
 * jamespage waves as well
<rbasak> Hi everyone!
<adam_g> rbasak: o/
 * Daviey notes to get rbasak to introduce himself fully next meeting.
<Daviey> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> Same time, same place, next week?
<Daviey> Good Stuff!
<Daviey> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 30 16:42:04 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-30-16.01.moin.txt
<SpamapS> whoa..
<SpamapS> that is.. cool
<AlanBell> apart from failing to process nearly every command :)
<AlanBell> reason being code added last night to allow people who are ops to close a running meeting
<AlanBell> ok, better plan now
<AlanBell> anyone who is an op can act as a chair for any command
<AlanBell> so anyone can op up and step in as chair (if they can get ops)
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 30 17:00:02 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<cking> o/
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<smb> \o
<apw> o/
<jjohansen> \o
 * AlanBell hasn't quite released the update yet
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<ppisati> o/
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Various arm kernel flavours: nothing to report.
<ppisati> lp709245("ARM SMP scheduler performance bug"): Ming Lei has posted a patch that fixes the problem and discussion is ongoing on linux-omap@.
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> === Release Metrics ===
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<ogasawara> ==== oneiric nominated bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 39 linux kernel bugs (up 19)
<ogasawara> ==== Ubuntu ubuntu-11.10-beta-1 bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 1 linux kernel bugs (up 1)
<ogasawara> ==== <series>-updates bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 16 natty linux kernel bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 3 maverick linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 7 lucid linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy linux kernel bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> === Incoming Bugs ===
<ogasawara>  * 150 oneiric bugs (up 18)
<ogasawara>  * 1566 natty bugs (up 35)
<ogasawara>  * 1089 maverick bugs (down 2)
<ogasawara>  * 959 lucid bugs (up 2)
<ogasawara>  * 32 hardy bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara> === Regressions ===
<ogasawara> ==== regression-update bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 14 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 40 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 76 lucid bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-release bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 6 oneiric bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 435 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 238 maverick bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 216 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 2 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ==== regression-proposed bugs ====
<ogasawara>  * 0 oneiric bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 3 natty bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 maverick bugs (down 1)
<ogasawara>  * 1 lucid bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara>  * 0 hardy bugs (no change 0)
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Milstone Targeted Work Items
<bjf> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/milestones.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || other-kernel-o-bug-handling         || 2 work items||
<ogasawara> ||           || other-kernel-o-version-and-flavours || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati   || other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review  || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the table above, please review your work items or bump them to Beta 2.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Per bug 837332, we've spun a last minute upload of the kernel this morning to ensure CONFIG_EFI_VARS=y.  We've also added this config to our enforcer now.  I was a bit too strict with the enforcer check which has resulted in FTBFS for powerpc and arm.  The release team has chosen to ignore those for now and we'll get it resolved on the first upload after Beta-1.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837332 in linux (Ubuntu) "missing efi-modules udeb" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837332
<ogasawara> Additionally, upstream stable v3.0.4 has been released so we'll be rebasing shortly.  We'll upload the v3.0.4 rebase as well as any queued patches on master-next this Friday after Beta-1 releases.  I would also like to remind everyone that Kernel Freeze is fast approaching, ie Thurs Sept 15.  After that, all patches are subject to our SRU policy in order to be applied.  Some important upcoming dates to keep in mind are as
<ogasawara> follows:
<ogasawara>  * Sept 1 - Beta 1 (2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 15 - Kernel Freeze (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Sept 22 - Beta 2 (~3 weeks)
<ogasawara>  * Oct 13 - Final Release (~6 weeks)
<ogasawara> I'd also like to note that the P-series git repo was recently rebased it to v3.1-rc4.  It's available at git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-p.git master-next .
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (apw)
<apw> === CVE Metrics ===
<apw>  
<apw> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<apw>  
<apw> Currently open CVEs for each supported branch:
<apw>  
<apw> || Package                                  || Open      ||
<apw> ||                                          ||           ||
<apw> || linux Hardy                              ||    9 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux Lucid                              ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux Maverick                           ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux Natty                              ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux Oneiric                            ||    5 (+1) ||
<apw> || linux-ec2 Lucid                          ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-fsl-imx51 Lucid                    ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Lucid                     ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-mvl-dove Maverick                  ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Maverick                  ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Natty                     ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-ti-omap4 Oneiric                   ||    5 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-maverick Lucid        ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw> || linux-lts-backport-natty Lucid           ||    6 (+2) ||
<apw>  
<apw> We have a few new CVEs this week, a result of the security team cleaning house.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||== Status of kernels ==
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We've finished the verification phase for Lucid and Maverick, which was
<sconklin> || delayed due to time required to find regressions. Two fixes have been reverted
<sconklin> || from those kernels due to a failure to have them verified.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || In addition, another regression was reported in Lucid, and the patch was reverted.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Both Lucid and Maverick have been respun and uploaded, and the builds should
<sconklin> || be completed tomorrow, and they will be ready to enter testing phase.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We have gone ahead and prepared the nect Natty kernel without waiting for the next
<sconklin> || cycle to start for the other kernels, so that we don't pile up more stable upstream
<sconklin> || patches than we must. This effectively decouples Natty from the kernel cadence for
<sconklin> || the other kernels
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || * [[http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html|Detailed Information Here]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Kernel status for each series is as follows:
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Hardy ===
<sconklin> || * Released
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Lucid ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/836914|Lucid Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836914 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.32-34.76 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || * Now building in the PPA, will enter Testing phase when complete and copied to -proposed
<sconklin> || * The following fixes were reverted due to a failure to be verified:
<sconklin> ||   [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ecryptfs/+bug/509180||ecryptfs sometimes seems to add trailing garbage to encrypted files]]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 509180 in linux (Ubuntu Natty) "ecryptfs sometimes seems to add trailing garbage to encrypted files" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<sconklin> ||   [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/583760||Mouse cursor dissappears with nouveau]]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 583760 in Gentoo Linux "[PATCH] Mouse cursor dissappears with nouveau" [High,Confirmed]
<sconklin> || * The following patch was reverted because it caused a regression:
<sconklin> ||   [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/836899||tunnels: fix netns vs proto registration ordering]]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836899 in linux (Ubuntu) "revert tunnels: fix netns vs proto registration ordering" [Undecided,New]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Maverick ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/837449|Maverick Tracking Bug]]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837449 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.35-30.59 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> || * Now building in the PPA, will enter Testing phase when complete and copied to -proposed
<sconklin> || * The following fixes were reverted due to a failure to be verified:
<sconklin> ||   [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ecryptfs/+bug/509180||ecryptfs sometimes seems to add trailing garbage to encrypted files]]
<sconklin> ||   [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/583760||Mouse cursor dissappears with nouveau]]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ||=== Natty ===
<sconklin> || * [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/836903|Natty Tracking Bug]]
<sconklin> || * Now building in the PPA, will enter Verification phase when complete and copied to -proposed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836903 in linux (Ubuntu) "linux: 2.6.38-11.49 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress]
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Current Kernel versions are available here: http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/versions.html
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> o/
<bjf> I'll go first
<bjf>  * I've made changes to some of the bug reports.
<bjf>    * Bug Heat column added.
<bjf>    * Kernel version column added. The kernel version will be prefixed with '[U]' or '[P]' if that is the version in -updates or -proposed.
<bjf> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/1-day-new.html
<bjf> ..
<ogasawara> bjf: will those also be reflected in our daily bug report email?
<bjf> ogasawara, not right now, but i was thinking about it, would you like it there as well?
<apw> migth scap better if the [U] was a suffix
<apw> scan
<ogasawara> bjf: not sure I care about the updates/proposed bit, but the heat I might be interested in
<bjf> apw, your input is noted :-)
<bjf> ogasawara, ok
<ogasawara> bjf: I really like your daily bug report, I primarily use that rather than LP
<ogasawara> bjf: the email that is
 * apw seconds that ..
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> ogasawara, i wan't people to use both, the 7-day and 30-day as well, with sortable columns we should be detecting regressions quicker
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 30 17:12:34 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-30-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks bjf
<AlanBell> sorry about the bot breakage
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 30 17:24:50 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 30 17:24:56 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-30-17.24.moin.txt
<AlanBell> lets use the new syntax :)
<AlanBell> #startmeeting kernel team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 30 17:25:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | kernel team Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> #topic foo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | kernel team Meeting | Current topic:  foo
<AlanBell> #topic bar
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | kernel team Meeting | Current topic:  bar
<AlanBell> someone else want to try to change the #topic please?
 * apw notes an extra ' '
<apw> #topic me
<Daviey> #topic does this fail?
<AlanBell> now try
<Daviey> #topic does this fail?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | kernel team Meeting | Current topic:  does this fail?
<apw> AlanBell, you have a spare space between topic: and the topic
<AlanBell> #topic foo
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | kernel team Meeting | Current topic:  foo
<AlanBell> so I do
<Daviey> AlanBell: Would a more generic wiki page for Meetingology make sense?
<AlanBell> yes, when I finish writing it
<AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<AlanBell> #chair Daviey
<meetingology> Current chairs: AlanBell Daviey
<AlanBell> #votesrequired 2
<meetingology> votes now need 2 to be passed
<AlanBell> #voters Daviey AlanBell apw
<meetingology> Current voters: AlanBell Daviey apw
<apw> +1
<AlanBell> #vote this house is in favour of cake
<meetingology> Please vote on: this house is in favour of cake
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<AlanBell> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
<apw> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from apw
<AlanBell> -1 actually no
<meetingology> -1 actually no received from AlanBell
<Daviey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Daviey
<AlanBell> you can change your mind
<AlanBell> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: this house is in favour of cake
<meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion denied
<AlanBell> didn't reach the threshold
<Daviey> AlanBell: Does it check quorum?
<AlanBell> hmm, that is what the #votesrequired thing is for
<AlanBell> what did you have in mind?
<Daviey> ah, nice.. i should RTFM
<AlanBell> normally it adds up and checks for positive/negative/zero
<AlanBell> zero is a deadlock
<AlanBell> or you can say how much of a positive is required (no deadlock in that situation)
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 30 17:33:11 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-30-17.25.moin.txt
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 30 18:20:47 2011 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<bjf> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 30 18:21:37 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-30-18.20.moin.txt
<bjf> AlanBell, i don't see the bot doing anything useful with "link" commands
<bjf> AlanBell, i'm having a hard time understanding why we switched to a less functional bot
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology]
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<AlanBell> bjf: because the other one broke altogether
<AlanBell> it is more functional, but was released somewhat ahead of plan because the other one went into early terminal retirement
<bjf> AlanBell, personally, i don't find it more functional
<AlanBell> in what way?
<bjf> AlanBell, I just tried #link and it didn't do anything
<AlanBell> yeah, that would be a bug
<AlanBell> it did note it in the summary minutes, just didn't confirm that it had caught the command
<bjf> AlanBell, the output log is no better than the raw irc logs
<AlanBell> in general it *should* be less chatty and not repeat stuff back to you pointlessly
<AlanBell> the output log from your earlier meeting wouldn't be as it didn't process any commands :)
<AlanBell> normally it should do format it nicely for pasting into moin
<bjf> AlanBell, it "worked" last week, i didn't find the output useful (but that just might be me)
<AlanBell> there are a few bugs in that and I am not completely happy with the output, but I am working on that
<AlanBell> what would you like the output to do?
<bjf> AlanBell, i already have a script for taking the output from my irc meeting and producing the moin page
<AlanBell> ok, cool, this will do it for everyone
<AlanBell> got an example of your script's output?
<AlanBell> I can have multiple output writers to suit different tastes :)
<AlanBell> hmm, seems the kernel team have a syntax all of their own that they parse
<AlanBell> any other teams have specific formats that are post-processed by scripts and are not mootbot commands?
<Daviey> AlanBell: Our workflow for posting the meeting mins' is via https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Team_policy (See IRC Meeting) .. suggestions welcome on how to streamline this.
<Daviey> (Hint, we don't like the current process)
<Daviey> Involves too much post-meeting hacking.
<AlanBell> copy-paste-done is the target for post-meeting hackign
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-08-31
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
 * bdmurray waves
<doko_> hi
<cjwatson> hi, sorry I couldn't get to the mumble meeting, unity had gone into ridiculous go-slow mode and it was insanely hard to start any new applications
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 31 15:04:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> wow, that's a lot more commands than before
<stgraber> that list got a lot bigger :)
<slangasek> do they only work with '#' now?
<AlanBell> they work with both
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> cool
<barry> kind of nice not to have to type ALLCAPS any more
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> mvo stgraber bdmurray ev slangasek cjwatson barry jhunt doko
<slangasek> mvo's on vacation this week
<slangasek> stgraber:
<stgraber> - Last week
<stgraber>  - Did some more IPv6 testing for cyphermox and talked about the proper implementation of DUID handling in Network Manager
<stgraber>  - Continued work to automate IPv6 testing. Got all the configuration files automatically generated, just need to script the VMs now.
<AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology is a documentation page I wrote yesterday
<stgraber>  - Bunch of Edubuntu uploads, replacing the old LTSP live by a new one that works. Tweaked unity-greeter and unity, changed the wallpaper, ...
<stgraber>  - Started poking at Ubiquity, fixing a few bugs.
<stgraber> - This week
<stgraber>  - Some more discussion with cyphermox on DHCPv6, I think we now have the final implementation of what we want in NM. Still needs testing though.
<stgraber>  - Mostly worked on Ubiquity, trying to get the bug list a bit shorter (pretty difficult considering the number of new bugs we get every hour...)
<stgraber>  - Started looking at bug 575469 and bug 234409 in friendly-recovery. Got it moved to /lib here, just need to patch the scripts and do some testing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 575469 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu Oneiric) "recovery mode mounts filesystems read-write rather than read-only" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575469
<stgraber>  - ISO testing and Edubuntu beta1 release.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234409 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "friendly-recovery violates the Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234409
<stgraber> - Next week
<stgraber>  - Monday is public holiday in Canada (Labour day)
<stgraber>  - Get friendly-recovery reviewed and uploaded
<stgraber>  - Finish to automate IPv6 testing and get that running daily.
<stgraber>  - Hopefully some time for WebLive work, still need to get an Oneiric server working (only have Natty at the moment)
<stgraber>  - Continue poking at TPM.
<stgraber> (done)
 * stgraber loves his new irssi script/plugin, copy/paste always work now :)
<bdmurray> lp_stockereplies.user.js to work with new Launchpad forms
<bdmurray> Uploaded new version of firefox-lp-improvements
<bdmurray> Bug triage of iso-testing bug reports
<bdmurray> ubiquity merge proposal modifying how bugs are tagged oem-config
<bdmurray> apport merge proposal preventing bug reports due to hardware error on /, /usr or /var devices
<bdmurray> apport merge proposal creating a DuplicateSignature for ubiquity bug reports and redirecting some bugs to grub-install
<bdmurray> updated update-manager apport source package hook to ask whether or not it is a dist-upgrade and include files in /var/log/dist-upgrade
<bdmurray> wrote up test case for SRU for bug 814727
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 814727 in apport (Ubuntu Natty) "Do not report package installation failures that contain a segmentation fault" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/814727
<bdmurray> [done]
<ev> - Short week; public holiday on Monday
<ev> - Fixing bugs in ubiquity and expanding the test coverage along the way.
<ev> - Currently fighting GtkIconView which in GTK3 has decided to completely ignore the length of text when determining a width and goes entirely on the size of the (in our case nonexistent) icon.
<ev> - Travelling to SF for Plumbers this Friday then on holiday for the first half of the week.
<ev> (done)
<slangasek> * FTBFS fixes (gnuradio, php5; passed the buck on php5 after it still FTBFS)
<slangasek> * follow-through on ia32-libs/wine
<slangasek>  * now tested with all the proprietary 32-bit apps I can find
<slangasek> {done}
<slangasek> * fakeroot sync to fix a regression when using Xvfb at build-time
<slangasek> * on vacation grinding gears in a manual transmission rental car in France next week
<cjwatson> Short week (bank holiday).
<cjwatson> Ongoing NBS/FTBFS fun.
<cjwatson> Several ubiquity test fixes.
<cjwatson> Working on getting new-style Chinese edition CD images autobuilt.
<cjwatson> Roving consultancy on bugs discovered during beta-1 preparation.
<cjwatson> Initial work on bug 420080 (getting partman-crypto to allow reusing existing encrypted volumes).
<cjwatson> Prepared a plausible-looking fix for bug 774089 (nasty misinstallation on some Macs); sent private mail asking for testing.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420080 in partman-crypto (Ubuntu) "Configure encrypted volumes destroys existing data" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420080
<cjwatson> Some UEFI testing.  Found a fatal bug in the kernel configuration; now fixed, have partially retested but not completely as yet.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 774089 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Booting fails 3 times, works every fourth time after new install of Natty Narwhal amd64 on Macbook Pro" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774089
<cjwatson> Fixed IPv4/IPv6 dual-stack breakage during installation (queued for post-beta-1).  Slightly worried that nobody seems to have noticed this before me - stgraber, is this a gap in our testing?
<cjwatson> Fixed kexec-tools bug 401405 (fails to install in chroots).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401405 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec-tools should not exit when there is no /boot/grub" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401405
<cjwatson> Finally got LP dpkg-xz-support branch landed, and announced it.  multiarch-translations branch is blocked on bug 809123.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 809123 in Launchpad itself "we cannot deploy DB schema changes live" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809123
<cjwatson> done
<barry> last week: short week due to vacation; this week: bug 832756 uploaded; currently working on bug 832864 and bug 831739.  next week: monday is usa holiday (labor day, sans extra 'u'). done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832756 in python-scipy (Ubuntu Oneiric) "python-scipy version 0.9.0+dfsg1-1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832756
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832864 in pyside (Ubuntu Oneiric) "pyside version 1.0.4-1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 831739 in python3.2 (Ubuntu) "package python3 3.2-3 [modified: usr/share/doc/python3/changelog.Debian.gz] failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed pre-removal script returned error exit status 134" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831739
<stgraber> cjwatson: what was the specific case failing with dual-stack in d-i?
<slangasek> ev: does GtkIconView look like it needs a change in gtk3?
<cjwatson> stgraber: it didn't work at all, because dhclient-script was flushing the IPv6 addresses when it got an IPv4 address
<ev> slangasek: I don't follow what you're asking, but I've just fixed the issue in a roundabout fashion.  Just trying to find a way of probing whether the text is wrapping in the individual cells so I can construct a proper test case for it.
<ev> slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/678954/
<cjwatson> which was because I sent the bug report to Debian fixing that but forgot to actually upload it to Ubuntu *blush*
<stgraber> cjwatson: ah right, well, we didn't test dhclient before in d-i. All the tests at the sprint were with wide-dhcp.
<cjwatson> stgraber: dhclient is still used for IPv4
<cjwatson> wide-dhcp is just for IPv6
<cjwatson> this is the exact setup we tested at the sprint
<stgraber> ah, right, weird we didn't notice then...
<cjwatson> we did
<cjwatson> as I said, I forgot to upload one of the pieces of this to Ubuntu
<slangasek> ev: meaning, if this is a regression vs. GTK+2.0, should we be trying to get it fixed in gtk itself and is that feasible for oneiric
<ev> slangasek: we're abusing GtkIconView here
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> by testing I meant testing of actual Ubuntu images rather than the test ones we put together
<ev> normal people would have an icon visible
<ev> we're just using it to lay out a few bits of text
 * slangasek nods
<ev> plus I'd sooner say, lets have a consistent language page (between ubiquity and oem-config) before I fought GTK+ upstream to accept patches for this
<cjwatson> yeah, that page in oem-config is horrible
<ev> indeed
<stgraber> cjwatson: right, I've currently been focusing on the NetworkManager implementation, only started automating IPv6 testing for d-i and post-install last week. Should have that ready and running daily next week.
<cjwatson> stgraber: ah, right - yep, sounds good.  run beta-1 through it and it should fail :-)
<stgraber> cjwatson: will do :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: are there any bugs in oneiric? :)
<bdmurray> slangasek: a couple of have come to my attention recently
<bdmurray> mterry brought up bug 407862 the other day
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407862 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "Messages not being sent to system logs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407862
<bdmurray> it could use some further investigation
<slangasek> any volunteers to look into that?
<doko> lightning round already finished?
<slangasek> oh phooey, did I cut you off?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> sorry, I thought you'd already gone
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - OpenJDK-[67] multiarch installations
<doko> - gcc-4.4/gcj-4.4/gnat-4.4 multiarch patch update
<doko> - Test rebuild finished this weekend.
<doko> - Filed remaining bug reports for build failures
<doko> - Walked through all dep-wait packages, resolved a lot, and filed reports for the others.
<doko> - Synced/fixed ~80 packages last week.
<doko> - ARM test rebuild finished this Monday.
<doko> --
<slangasek> are there bugs filed/tagged for the arm-specific failures?
<doko> no, asked the arm guys to do that
<doko> rsalveti, janimo
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> back to bug #407862 - any takers?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407862 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "Messages not being sent to system logs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407862
<barry> slangasek: i can look into it, as i get tired of/blocked on bug 832864
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 832864 in pyside (Ubuntu Oneiric) "pyside version 1.0.4-1 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832864
<slangasek> barry: thanks
<bdmurray> iso testing is on going but bug 837681 kind of jumped out at me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837681 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Automatic partitioning corrupts GUID partition table (GPT)" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837681
<bdmurray> and then there is bug 837287 and I'm not quite certain where that one belongs
<cjwatson> yeah, that was in my lightning round report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 837287 in casper (Ubuntu Oneiric) "live cd panel / top menu is cropped" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837287
<cjwatson> (837681 - I'm working on it)
<cjwatson> oh, wait, it wasn't, sorry.  it should have been.
<bdmurray> cjwatson: oops, sorry I missed it
<cjwatson> no, my bad
<stgraber> bdmurray: 15:11 < ev> right, 829987 is fixed (it was just the wrong function prototype for GTK3 - passing the data argument is now required)
<stgraber> bdmurray: oops, broken copy/paste ...
<stgraber> bdmurray: IRC being super slow at the moment... sorry for that ;)
<slangasek> 837287> strange.  Can anyone else reproduce this?
<bdmurray> slangasek: I did it was very narrow but it was clickable too
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> reproduced on similar or different video hardware?
<slangasek> submitter was doing it in virtualbox
<bdmurray> slangasek: on a kvm virtual machine
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> maybe an issue with the 2d fallback?
<slangasek> cjwatson, ev, stgraber: does that sound like a place to start with this bug?
<slangasek> or is it more likely to be ubiquity itself?
<cjwatson> the 2D fallback is totally broken for me in kvm right now, so hard to tell
<cjwatson> (there are bugs on the iso.qa report that look relevant, so I haven't re-reported as yet)
<slangasek> ah, hmm
<ev> the panel getting cropped is probably due to the indicator path being wrong
<ev> thanks to an ABI bump again
<ev> Mario fixed that in trunk
<slangasek> ok - ubiquity then?
<cjwatson> in fact that fix has been uploaded hasn't it?
<cjwatson> I agree that's likely ubiquity not casper, in any event
<slangasek> poked the bug
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> slangasek: that's it for today
<slangasek> ok, what's with launchpad now removing milestones by default every time I change the assigned package? :/
<slangasek> anyone else have any bugs they're concerned about and would like to bring up?
<slangasek> wrt beta in particular - though it's probably too late to get any fixes in for beta1 now unless it's omgkittens
 * ev has to run off and help Christian with Unity/nvidia/compiz issues, back in a tick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<cjwatson> no such bugs that we can do anything about.  bug 813365 (I think) is giving me constant grief and making it difficult to be productive.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813365 in unity "compiz leaks memory, becomes sluggish and unusable after using it for few hours" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813365
<bdmurray> I'm taking a long weekend starting tomorrow afternoon and returning Tuesday
<cjwatson> when you try to switch workspaces and your entire desktop sometimes randomly hangs for 10+ seconds, it's pretty bad
<slangasek> heh, ouch
<cjwatson> (workaround: kill compiz and then rearrange all my windows back the way I want them ...)
<barry> ouch
 * ev back
<slangasek> ev: bringing some good news to share in our AOB? :)
<ev> hah, I bring hate for compiz
<slangasek> well, that doesn't sound like good news :)
<cjwatson> same as my hate, or new hate?
<ev> it might be the same hate as you
<ev> he's been having trouble all day
<ev> since upgrading to oneiric
<ev> unity 3D hangs on launch with nvidia 173, it's exceedingly slow with 96, and the free driver doesn't work work with unity 2d (no textures for windows)
<ev> with 96 and unity 3d his system becomes largely unusable after a few minutes
<ev> dx pointed him at pitti, I think
<ev> madness
<slangasek> 2d + textures - I'm confused
<slangasek> what textures are expected with unity 2d?
<ev> textures is the wrong word
<ev> windows were invisible
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> will Christian raise a bug on the nvidia drivers?
<slangasek> anyway, I suppose we can take that back to #-devel :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 31 15:53:40 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-31-15.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<stgraber> thanks
<ev> thanks
<ev> slangasek: well, it may be a compiz issue
<ev> I mean, this is a piece of software largely written by 14 year olds. As much as nvidia is a black box, the holes in compiz are quite apparent.
<AlanBell> slangasek: shout if you have any issues with the minutes
<ev> man, I am turning into quite the curmudgeon in my old age
<AlanBell> I know there are bugs in the output
<slangasek> ev: heh
<slangasek> AlanBell: looks good from here, thanks :)
<AlanBell> one top tip, do #startmeeting <meetingname>
<AlanBell> so #startmeeting desktop team or whatever
<pedro_> Hello all
<pedro_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 31 17:00:30 2011 UTC.  The chair is pedro_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pedro_> Welcome to the QA Weekly Meeting, as always the Agenda is available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<pedro_> first item:
<Ursinha> o/
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Previous Actions (all)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions (all)
<pedro_> any action item from previous meeting?
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<pedro_> odd bot :-P
<pedro_> #topic Previous Actions (all)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions (all)
<pedro_> what?
<pedro_> whatever, ok no one raised any items from previous meeting
<pedro_> #topic Community Efforts/Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Community Efforts/Testing
<pedro_> jibel, hggdh ?
 * pedro_ needs to learn how to use the bot
<jibel> Hi o/
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<jibel> We are currently testing Oneiric Beta 1
<jibel> For this milestone there is a new DVD image to test.
<jibel> it's a 1.5GB image
<jibel> like a desktop image + langpacks + additional software that fit on a 4GB USB
<jibel> On the testing side, Ubuntu still need some testing.
<jibel> Major issue has been found on EFI systems and filesystems > 2TB
<jibel> and also migration assistant is broken on current desktop image.
<jibel> Other important issues have been fixed but are not blocking installation and will be available on 1rst update after install.
<jibel> On the derivative side
<jibel> Kubuntu received little testing and really need your help: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/kubuntu/all
<ScottK> Yes.  Please.
<ScottK> Particularly on amd64.
<jibel> hggdh, a word on server ?
<jibel> that's all from me then
<jibel> ..
<pedro_> thanks jibel
<pedro_> any comments, questions ?
<hggdh> server is doing good -- we have almost all tests done
<gema> and passing?
<hggdh> but I would like help on the virtual on JeOS on ESX and the iSCSI tests
<hggdh> yes, we are passing :-)
<hggdh> ..
<charlie-tca> o/
<pedro_> charlie-tca, please go ahead
<charlie-tca> ubuntustudio would also appreciate some help getting images tested
<charlie-tca> They are a lacking a bit when it comes to enough people to do things
<charlie-tca> ..
<pedro_> awesome, thanks charlie-tca hggdh
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Automated/Systems Testing
<patrickmw> no update from me
<pedro_> ok
<AlanBell> pedro_: happy to go through the bot after your meeting
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
<pedro_> AlanBell, ok thanks ;-)
<pedro_> bdmurray, Ursinha anything to share?
<bdmurray> pedro_: as you noticed I fixed firefox-lp-improvements and the stock replies this week
<pedro_> ooh yes that gave me a big smile today morning ;-), thanks bdmurray
<Ursinha> pedro_: I've been working on converting existing scripts to lpltk, so I can create desktop team triage bugs report in an acceptable time!
<bdmurray> I've also an apport merge proposal blocking bug reporting when there are errors on the device hold the /, /usr/ and /var partitions
 * pedro_ tired of copy & paste things from w.u.c/b/responses
<bdmurray> and an upload of ubiquity creating DuplicateSignatures for those bug reports
<bdmurray> and a blog post regarding Ubuntu bug volume - http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=107
<bdmurray> ..
<pedro_> btw don't forget that this week is ISO Testing so please check your bugs marked as iso-testing , lets make happy the Testing team ;-)
<pedro_> any other comments or questions?
<pedro_> ok thanks bdmurray Ursinha
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Other Topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other Topics
<pedro_> any other topics to raise?
<pedro_> (tic tac tic tac tic tac)
<pedro_> [TOPIC] Chair Selection
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Chair Selection
<pedro_> any volunteer?
<pedro_> or shall we use the shuf thing? ;-)
<pedro_> shuf it is
<pedro_> shuf -e hggdh pedro jibel gema ursinah bdmurray patrickwm charlie-tca | head -n1
<pedro_> gema
<pedro_> congrats gema :-P
<hggdh> YES!;2P
<gema> pedro_: I have no idea how this works, I just arrived!
<gema> hggdh: will you train me?
<hggdh> heh. We will help ;-)
<charlie-tca> I like that shuf command
<hggdh> yes, certainly
<pedro_> gema, hggdh will teach you :-P
<gema> good, I will do it, then :)
<nuclearbob> should I sit in in case I get shuffed later?
<hggdh> oh we forgot nuclearbob
<gema> nuclearbob: you know which name my shuf is coming up with next week :P
<pedro_> oh i forgot to add nuclearbob
<hggdh> should we shuf again?
<pedro_> nah next week we only put his nickname ;-)
<hggdh> or just 'shuf -e nuclearbob | head -n1'?
<gema> hggdh: it's fine, just train us both so that we can do it :D
<hggdh> deal
<pedro_> hggdh, yeah! :-)
<nuclearbob> works for me, I can take it week after next
<pedro_> ok lets wrap
<pedro_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 31 17:29:26 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-31-17.00.moin.txt
<charlie-tca> Thank you for chairing, pedro_
<hggdh> thank you pedro_
<pedro_> AlanBell, AH! it doesn't change the whole topic it restore it after the meeting, Jesus i was scare that i've screwed something :-P
<pedro_> you're welcome folks! :-)
<AlanBell> yeah, it sorts it out :_
<AlanBell> you can do this too  . . .
<pedro_> cool :-)
<AlanBell> #startmeeting QA Weekly
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 31 17:30:31 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | QA Weekly Meeting | Current topic:
 * pedro_ taking notes
<hggdh> AlanBell: wow, nice to know!
<pedro_> that's cool :-)
<AlanBell> #topic Community efforts/testing
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot | QA Weekly Meeting | Current topic:  Community efforts/testing
<kamusin> thanks!
<hggdh> AlanBell: I love you :-)
<pedro_> ah! that's even better and doesn't give me a panic attack :P
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology is the new Mootbot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 31 17:31:28 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-08-31-17.30.moin.txt
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mootbot
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<AlanBell> so the full command set is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<AlanBell> it should create beautiful minutes in moin markup format
<AlanBell> but there are a few bugs in the "beautiful" part right now
<AlanBell> it has some funky new features for votes, with the #voters command and #votesrequired
<hggdh> nuclearbob, gema ^ this is a very good link to bookmark
<AlanBell> I just put it in the /topic and will update the blurb it spits out at the start and end of a meeting
<gema> hggdh, AlanBell: thanks
<AlanBell> the idea with the bot changing the /topic is that people joining the channel know what they have walked in on
<hggdh> yes, this is perfect.
<gema> cool, hggdh , where is the agenda of our meetings?
<gema> and the people I need to talk to in each section x)
<hggdh> gema: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<nuclearbob> groovy
<hggdh> gema: well... for the players... you have to know beforehand. We should document it, though (nothing like lcak of docs in QA ;-))
<gema> hggdh: ok, so why don't we just put the names of the usual players in the agenda?
<gema> on that wiki you got there?
<hggdh> yes, I agree. Please feel free to do it :-)
<charlie-tca> hggdh: we should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/Chairing
<gema> well, I would do it if I knew
<gema> xDDD
<gema> so please, do help yourself :P
<gema> hggdh: if the names are not there by Wed next week, I will have to improvise :) good night folks!
<hggdh> gema: g'night
<AlanBell> hggdh: one thing we do in our LoCo team meetings is put the bot commands right in the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> so chairing is just copying and pasting line by line
<hggdh> AlanBell: yes, good idea. Will uncerimoniously copy it ;-)
<Jarg_DaSpaceFrog> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-01
<ogra_> foo
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  1 15:00:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
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<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110901
<NCommander> #topic Action Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action Items
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to duplicate 806751 to the right masterbug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: NCommander to duplicate 806751 to the right masterbug
<ogra_> i think GrueMaster did that meanwhile
<NCommander> I couldn't find th eoriginal guided partitioning bug which is a dupe of 806751. Its posible it got closed by someone else, but I couldn't flush it out with Google
<GrueMaster> So keep this one open until fixed.
<ogra_> ++
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Standing Items
<NCommander> GrueMaster: I intend to
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_> would it help if we just filled the netboot images with zeros ?
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
 * ogra_ needs to move WIs ....
 * NCommander beats ogra with a stick
 * ogra_ beats NCommander to use the right links 
<NCommander> ogra_: you can update the wiki with it
<GrueMaster> Yes please.  These workitems show nothing being done by me, which is highly inaccurate.
<ogra_> can you update them in the wiki ? (i did that for last week, why didnt you carry that over=
<ogra_> NCommander, i did !
<NCommander> ogra_: i copied the page from last week and edited it
<NCommander> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20110825 - the links are the same!
<ogra_> well, i updated the one i used when i was running the meeting rercentlY
<NCommander> which was the 25th :-P, did you hit save?
<ogra_> I DID IT DURING TEH MEETING (AND FILED THEM TWOCE ACTUALLY)
<GrueMaster> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm-ubuntu-11.10-beta-1.html
<ogra_> ARGH
<ogra_> MY CAPS IS BROKEN
<ogra_> ah, better, sorry
<NCommander> ogra_: hold shift? :-)
<NCommander> what's the correct overall link so I can save it into the page?
<ogra_> see above :)
<ogra_> GrueMaster, pasted the right one
<NCommander> I mean what's the replacement for http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<ogra_> its just s/armel/arm/
<NCommander> oh
<ogra_> status.ubuntu.com
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey)
<NCommander> links fixed
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> preinstaleld pool misbehaves on preinstalled server ...
<ogra_> *installed
<NCommander> OMAP3 images are currently suffering from some ethernet issues. It looks like the root cause of the SMP ARM issue has been found (L2 caching issues), with a patch being tested
<ogra_> but infinity is on it i guess
<ogra_> NCommander, we are using the patch in ac100 already ... USB disk access went from 7M/s to 19M/s for me
<NCommander> \o/
<ogra_> so it should help panda the same way
<NCommander> _\o/_
<ogra_> or other SMP arms
<ogra_> are these your legs ?!?
 * NCommander shrugs
<NCommander> I claim many talents
<infinity> ...
 * ogra_ cant imagine NCommander doing the splits really
<infinity> This meeting just got weird.
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> move then :)
<ppisati> :)
<NCommander> It usually happens when the chair is sleep deprieved
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
<ppisati> as already said, Ming posted a patch that fixes the disk i/o problem
<ppisati> i'm rolling a new omap4 kernel with a new BSP
<ppisati> and that patch too
<ppisati> should be out available on zinc today or tomorrow
 * davidm waives
<ppisati> on the other hand, another round of new kernels for every release/flavour is being pushed out
<ogra_> sound seems to get critical
<ogra_> there are no devices at all
<ppisati> i know
<ppisati> it's on my list
<GrueMaster> Hopefully the new bsp fixes it.
<ppisati> it has been disabled on purpose
<ogra_> and we surely will need some time for adjusting userspace
<ppisati> actually the new kernel introduced new options
<ogra_> ppisati, thats fine, but we need it back soon, else the alsa changes and pulkse fixes come to late
<ppisati> and these options (as per defaultconfig)
<ppisati> break omapfb
<ogra_> and i would like that we after three releases finally have one with working sound
<ppisati> ogra_: i can turn it on now
<ppisati> ogra_: but then pulseaudio will go nuts
<ogra_> do that and lest see how userspace explodes :)
<ppisati> ooooooook :)
<ppisati> so
<ppisati> i push out the new kernel
<ppisati> and then i revert the "no sound" config
<ogra_> well, because fo kernel bugs or pulse bugs ?
<ppisati> pulse
<ogra_> if its pulse side we actually want it to break
<ppisati> ok, i'll do that then
<ogra_> so we can see if its fixed at some point ;)
<ogra_> and we have a pulse guy in #ubuntu-arm atm
<GrueMaster> We can't break the apps if there is no driver support.
<ogra_> yeah
<ppisati> yep
<NCommander> +1
<ppisati> but i din't want to push out a kernrl that would break everyone who updated
<ppisati> i hoped for a fix
<ppisati> but anyway, let's turn it on again
<ppisati> and have fun :)
<NCommander> ppisati: sometimes the best way to get that is to break the world
<GrueMaster> Better to do it now than after release.
<ogra_> on a sidenote ac100 kernel is pending a new git checkout, i will do that after beta (some time next week)
<NCommander> anything else?
<ogra_> nothing else here
<GrueMaster> As long as it still boots, it can be debugged and fixed.
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra_> well, apart from omap3 netboot everything we built for beta1 is releasable
<ogra_> mx5 waits for the milestone freeze to fall
<NCommander> ogra_: omap3 has a documented workaround, and the ethernet partially works
<ogra_> same for ac100
<GrueMaster> Yes
<ogra_> NCommander, oh, telll that in -release please, i marked it as unreleasable
<NCommander> ogra_: I poked skaet last night but no ping reply
<GrueMaster> omap3 is workable.  Painfull but workable.
<ogra_> all i read was "beagle netboot is unbootable after install"
<infinity> Little late, we just released.
<GrueMaster> I told her as much yesterday.
<GrueMaster> sigh.
<NCommander> oh well
<ogra_> NCommander, i updated the pad this morning after checking the images and isotracker
<ogra_> so its marked as NO on the pad atm
<ogra_> btw, could we pretty please stick to do *all* image testing conversation in #ubuntu-arm
<GrueMaster> And you didn't ask me what the situation was?  And didn't read the bug info?
<ogra_> so its in logs and retrievable later
<ogra_> GrueMaster, all i saw was a non passed test with two blocker bugs and there was no conversation about testing in any public channel
<ogra_> so i could only judge by the data i had
<skaet> We can still pull images if we need to.
<GrueMaster> Who did you want me to talk to?  Myself?
<infinity> Meh.  It's not the end of the world.
<GrueMaster> And there was some minor discussion on #ubuntu-release.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, you mean me ?
<infinity> We can push that image out with beta, or we can not care.  Both are valid options.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, well, i see about 3h of conversation in #arm from last night
<GrueMaster> iso tracker currently indicates that netboot-omap is rebuilding???
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> probably a d-i uplaod
<ogra_> cant avoid it if there is a rebuild for another arch
<NCommander> anything else w.r.t to images?
<ogra_> nope
<GrueMaster> omap4 isn't rebuilding though.
<ogra_> tracker issue i would say then
<rsalveti> sorry, late, ogra_ enabling sound at omap 4 will make pulseaudio to consume 100% of the cpu
<rsalveti> the image will be unusable
<ogra_> rsalveti, fine, so there is a reason to fix it
<rsalveti> there's always the reason to fix it, just don't know if enabling it now would be the best choice
<ogra_> rsalveti, we have a pulse maintainer in #ubuntu-arm, how would he fix it without being able to reproduce
<rsalveti> as it'll probably block desktop testing
<infinity> We need a chance to fix it sometime.
<rsalveti> for that ppisati can produce new packages and make it available at a ppa/people.canonical
<rsalveti> just my 2 cents
<infinity> And if we can't, disabling/crippling Pulse on ARM is saner than a kernel with missing drivers.
<ppisati> well, actually he could roll his own kernel
<ogra_> tobin knows how to chmod -x a binary on the image before testing i bet :)
<ppisati> with audio enabled
<infinity> If the userspace is broken, fix or disable the userspace.
<ogra_> fix is the attempt
<infinity> s/on ARM/on OMAP4/
<ogra_> rsalveti, the prob is that alsaucm isnt done either yet
<rsalveti> yup
<rsalveti> the linaro multimedia working group is on it for this month
<ogra_> do they fix it in the archive ?
<rsalveti> don't expect them to fix it, but they should know how to get it done for oneiric in some sort
 * ogra_ knows how to get it done ... i know that every release ... 
<ogra_> ... about a week before release sady
<ogra_> *sadly
<ogra_> :P
<rsalveti> :-)
<rsalveti> anyway, we have a bug for that already, let me find it
<ogra_> i want to have that sorted eralier this time
<ogra_> preferably minimally working sound for b2
<rsalveti> bug 816638
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 816638 in Linaro-Ubuntu "Pulseaudio consumes 100% of the cpu when trying to play a sound with natty's linaro LEB and 3.0.0-1402-linaro-lt-omap " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816638
<ppisati> rsalveti: while here
<ppisati> rsalveti: the new tilt introduced a DRM_OMAP option
<ppisati> rsalveti: and updateconfigs put it =m
<ppisati> rsalveti: but doing this we loose omapfb
<rsalveti> ppisati: put it as =y and replace omapfb
<ppisati> rsalveti: do you know what's the correct config in this case?
<ppisati> rsalveti: DRM_OMAP?
<rsalveti> ppisati: yes
<rsalveti> ppisati: but test it first, I wasn't able to test the new drm driver still
<rsalveti> but it's fine to just replace omapfb
<ppisati> rsalveti: well
<ppisati> X doesn't start in my case
<ppisati> insist in trying to use omapfb
<ppisati> and my fb console is powered on
<rsalveti> ppisati: let's follow this off-line
<ppisati> but nothing is printed
<ppisati> ok
<rsalveti> I want to check it with the leb images today too
<ppisati> if you want i can push it as is to zinc
<ppisati> you can take a look at the config
<rsalveti> ppisati: please at least make it available at a git tree somewhere
<ppisati> and tell me what do i have to tweak
<rsalveti> and paste me the link :-)
<NCommander> anything else?
<ppisati> that was the plan, ok
<rsalveti> NCommander: move
 * Daviey says hello?
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ogra_> libx86 is still ftbts !!!!
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> oh, why does the kernel fail
<infinity> They're on it.
<ogra_> ah, k
<GrueMaster> Yea, we need that to help debug libdrm-intel.
<infinity> They accidentally enforced an x86-only config.
<ogra_> looks good so far
<ppisati> rsalveti: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ppisati/ubuntu-oneiric.git ti-omap4-next
<rsalveti> ppisati: thanks
<ogra_> apart from likewise, NCommander Daviey, is that ciritical in any respect ?
<rsalveti> should finally be able to post the ftbfs bugs for the rebuild late today
<infinity> NCommander: Did I hear talk earlier in the week (or last week) that the likewise-open failure was a repeat of one you'd fixed earlier?
<ogra_> for server
<ogra_> infinity, twice iirc
<NCommander> infinity: several times :-/
<infinity> So, easy to upload a fix?
<NCommander> no
<ogra_> do we even still use it in server ?
<infinity> ogra_: It's in main.  "Use it in server" doesn't mean much, since we install nothing by default. :P
<ogra_> it used to be in the server ship seed ... which kept it in main
<ogra_> i'm just wondering if its still needed
<ogra_> or wanted
<GrueMaster> Since it works with active directory, it should be fixed and tested (why did I say that?)
<ogra_> a volunteer !
<GrueMaster> damn.
<ogra_> heh
<infinity> Well, the upshot is that he can physically assault NCommander to find his old patches.
<infinity> Anyhow.  Moving on?
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> NCommander, ?
<GrueMaster> ........
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
 * NCommander was being yelled at by the local powers that be
<GrueMaster> Not much testing has been going on with the preinstalled images due to the workload on server testing.
<ogra_> yell back !
 * ogra_ noticed that as well
<ogra_> in the past we all were jack of all trades somehow in the team ...
<ogra_> over time we all have our special focus and somehow nobody but you tests regulary
<ogra_> that used to be different in the past
<GrueMaster> On the server side, a lot of tests have had to be created from scratch as there hasn't been tests in those areas.
<ogra_> i was wondering if we should have a rotating schedule for non QA people to have regular test tasks
<GrueMaster> iSCSI somehow breaks the kernel to lock up the system.  Appears to be initiator side only.
<infinity> We should all be testing more as we near the home stretch, I suspect.
<ogra_> i know that if i personally test i also fix the bugs as i catch them sometimes ...
<infinity> Well, unless we're to busy fixing RC bugs. :/
<GrueMaster> That would help.  Especially if someone just popped in the desktop image once a week.
<ogra_> so it helps to have devs do reguzlar testing :)
<ogra_> GrueMaster, lets work ouot a plan that doesnt put to much extra work on each individual but makes sure we get regular dev testing too
<ogra_> (offline)
<GrueMaster> In previous cycles, I would do deep testing between releases, filing bugs and taking notes.  Then at release time, I would list all the bugs still open.
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra_> that was all from me
<GrueMaster> On the server side, I would still like it if someone could take a look at tahi.org and port the ipv6 test suite to Linux (from BSD).
<GrueMaster> Or at least give me some sort of tangible test plan.  Currently there is none.
<ogra_> bah, why dont they have one big tarball
<ogra_> each test seems to have its own
<cmagina> GrueMaster: tahi is looking to be quite a bit of work to port at least for one who is unfamiliar with the code.
<GrueMaster> Tell me about it.  I had started doing it myself, and I am not much of a programmer.
<cmagina> GrueMaster: the suse package contains one giant patch to port it
<ogra_> whats there to port actually ?
<ogra_> it operates in userspace on top of a defined protocol
<ogra_> oh, its bsd only ?
<cmagina> yeah
 * ogra_ didnt get that
<ogra_> sorry
<ahs3> it's got bsd-ism's all over the place...nasty to port...
<GrueMaster> I did hours of searching for a linux test suite.  The suse port was all I could find, and it is old.
<cmagina> i started to poke around to see if there are any alternatives, haven't seen one yet
<ogra_> and there is no equivalent tool onm linux ?
<ogra_> hrm
<infinity> While I agree that there's some value in a decent IPv6 test suite, we clearly don't have one on amd64/i386 either...
<infinity> So, I'm not sure this task is ours to worry about. :P
 * ogra_ doubts thats really 11.10 material then
<ahs3> no, no real equivalent.  and TAHI is the only org willing to give out any sort of certification for ipv6
<GrueMaster> I'll look to see if there is at least some documentation for enabling ipv6 dns/dhcp and do some rudamentary testing from there.
<GrueMaster> Our server testing is very lacking overall (not just on arm).
<GrueMaster> The few we have is highly dependent on libvirt/kvm, which doesn't help armel testing.
<ogra_> cant libvirt deal with actual qemu VMs too ?
<ogra_> would be slow as hell indeed
<infinity> It can.
<GrueMaster> Not sure, but I don't trust qemu to do a lot of these tests.  I don't trust kvm for the same reason.  Too much can break on raw silicon.
<ogra_> i thought so
<ogra_> well, kvm us just qemu with kernel side support
<ogra_> anyway, we're running out of time
<ogra_> NCommander, ?
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
 * rsalveti waves
<rsalveti> as I said in the private channel
<rsalveti> I'd like to have a topic just related with linaro
<ppisati> anyone coming to plumbers?
<rsalveti> so I can explain what we're planning to deliver
<ogra_> ++
<rsalveti> and improve the communication with the ubuntu arm team
<ogra_> NCommander, can you add that
<NCommander> k
<infinity> ppisati: I'm at Plumbers.
<GrueMaster> before QA.
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to add linaro topic during meeting before QA
<meetingology> ACTION: NCommander to add linaro topic during meeting before QA
<GrueMaster> :D
<rsalveti> great
<rsalveti> for this month we're just about to finish the 11.09 planning
<ogra_> now GrueMaster can sleep longer :)
<GrueMaster> Pfft.  hardly.
<rsalveti> mostly related with CI work, so nothing that will touch ubuntu atm
<ppisati> infinity: so, see you there :)
<ogra_> CI ?
<rsalveti> and for u-boot we may have more PXE working platforms and USB working at SPL as omap4boot
<rsalveti> continuous integration
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> i thought common interface :)
<rsalveti> the idea is to build daily packages for kernel/u-boot and feed that at lava
<ogra_> its the only context i ever herad CI in
<rsalveti> to get properly tested before landing at ubuntu and such
 * GrueMaster had guessed Crazy Ideas.
<rsalveti> but for u-boot it may be quite late for the cycle
<ogra_> hehe
<rsalveti> the only thing that we know for sure that will hit ubuntu is the linux-linaro kernel packages update
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: Will we have usb/pxe on beagleXM?
<rsalveti> that should reflect the ones released at 11.08
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: idea is to have it working at beagle xM, igepv2, vexpress and imx53
<GrueMaster> cool
<ogra_> vexpress ftw ... that could go with a libvirt setup :)
<infinity> We may be out of time.
<rsalveti> but that's all from my side
<rsalveti> I'm done ;-)
<ogra_> infinity, may be ? we are definitely ... :)
<NCommander> anything else or can I clsoe it out?
<ogra_> go
<NCommander> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  1 16:02:48 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-01-15.00.moin.txt
<AlanBell> hi NCommander give me a shout if there were any issues with the bot
<Daniel0108> hey
 * BasicXP is here
<Mkaysi> Here
<AndrewMC> Anyone here for the Ubuntu Youth team meeting it will now be held in #ubuntu-youth
<Mkaysi> Choose already :)
<JoseeAntonioR> Hi! Does anyone knows when the next meeting for the Americas is going to be held?
<pleia2> JoseeAntonioR: it's always the third thursday of the month at 23:59
<JoseeAntonioR> Ok. Thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-02
<czajkowski> soren: best of luck!
<soren> czajkowski: ta :)
<Ursinha> bug 818177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 818177 in linux (Ubuntu) "HP DL380G5 root disk mounted read-only on boot and boot fails" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818177
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-09-04
<holstein> the studio-ers are moving in ;)
<astraljava> Holla guys an' gals. Are we ready to rock?
<astraljava> Or is it hola? I always forget.
<craigs63> hola back
<falktx> hey
<astraljava> I think we're on.
<astraljava> #startmeeting Ubuntu Studio development monthly
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Sep  4 17:01:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is astraljava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio development monthly Meeting | Current topic:
<astraljava> #chair astraljava
<meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava
<astraljava> Welcome everyone!
<astraljava> For starters, I'd like to say that I'm excited to see some new activity in this project.
<holstein> o/
<astraljava> Welcome all the new contributors, whole-heartedly!
<astraljava> Not forgetting the old ones, of course. :)
<astraljava> Okay, as you probably already recall now, you can find the agenda and all other related information at:
<astraljava> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
<astraljava> But here's the agenda for today, anyway:
<astraljava> Call Meeting to Order
<astraljava> Old Business
<astraljava> website udpate - new website is impractical right now, ScottL will see about updating current one
<astraljava> thanks everyone involved in Beta1 testing, especially astraljava
<astraljava> New Business
<astraljava> XFCE migration - how is it going?
<astraljava> lightdm - is it working now with background?
<astraljava> new audience - musicians moving to and unfamiliar with Linux?
<astraljava> Beta2 testing is coming
<astraljava> new meeting schedule for twice a month (in contrast to once a month) for oneiric+1 ?
<astraljava> Goals for Oneiric+1
<astraljava> live dvd
<astraljava> lowlatency kernel
<astraljava> new UI or theme for xfce
<astraljava> new documentation
<astraljava> links/documentation on desktop/menu for new users?
<astraljava> how can we make is more simple, clean, easy for users?
<astraljava> Team structure / Strategy document
<astraljava> Any Other Business (all/anyone)
<astraljava> Next Meeting Time/Location
<astraljava> Next Meeting Chair
<astraljava> I think we're done with the first, so let's hit it on.
<astraljava> #topic Old Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio development monthly Meeting | Current topic:  Old Business
<astraljava> Hmm... did the bot die on me?
<astraljava> Oh good, there it is.
<astraljava> #subtopic website update
<holstein> so, thats bagged for a while?
<holstein> i was assuming the work load might be similar to fix the current one, or just drop in the new one
<scott-upstairs> sorry, i'm a dork and i'm slow and stupid
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Would you like to go on that one?
<astraljava> No worries, we knew. :D
<holstein> the new one seemed so ready to go last time i looked
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, sorry, i missed the topic
<scott-upstairs> website?
<astraljava> website update
<holstein> and my rationale was, it cant be *more* broken than what we have
<scott-upstairs> suggestion is to use the "new" one that jorge made?
<scott-upstairs> let me play with the old one first and test something
<scott-upstairs> if its crap i'll see if i can get the new one over
<falktx> is there a screenshot of the new proposal?
<scott-upstairs> but i'm no expert with website and especially with part of the website in launchpad
<scott-upstairs> falktx, hold one
<scott-upstairs> one
<scott-upstairs> on
<holstein> i mean, i dont think we should waste time doing anything to the old one now
<shnatsel|busy> edubuntu guys seem to be happy with their blog-like website - you might want to try it
<holstein> even if that means sitting on it for a bit
<scott-upstairs> http://www.myhaiku.org/ falktx
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: i like the blog like style
<falktx> scott-upstairs: looks cool!
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, we had consideredd various other things, like hosting our own, using wordpress, etc
<holstein> but, we are already somewhat commited to this idea
<scott-upstairs> but in terms of maintence we felt that staying with current hosting and drupal was the way to go
<scott-upstairs> i'll see what i can do
<holstein> yeah... thats true
<holstein> scott-upstairs: let us know if we can do anything
<holstein> i can put a drupal box online here, but i dont think thats the issue
<holstein> moving the database over is a drag right?
<scott-upstairs> holstein, the database will basically not really be needed i think because the new website doesn't really have any content
<scott-upstairs> i think
<holstein> COOL
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I think too, this seems like pure html
<holstein> that would be easier for us then
<scott-upstairs> but my concern is the mechanics of making new pages....the old site has many pages but the new one doesn't
 * falktx loves the new website proposal
<holstein> scott-upstairs: good
<scott-upstairs> i want to test on the old one and see if we can add new pages
<holstein> i dont think we need a bunch of pages
<scott-upstairs> without having to edit launchpad code
<holstein> links to wikis
<holstein> a one page clean site would be great right now
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: wikis suck. make them WISYWIG or use Google Docs.
<scott-upstairs> i just want to know how to manipulate things before we drop one that kinda works and has content for one that has two pages and no content
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I know a way around this, as I used it before
<scott-upstairs> falktx, for which?
<falktx> scott-upstairs: we create a simple xml file containing the news, and a simple php function will auto-read-and-make pages from it (news only)
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, how would we make them WISYWIG?
<scott-upstairs> falktx, okay
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: AFAIK MoinMoin has a plugin for that
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I've done it before, it's easy for me
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: im talking about the current ubuntu wikis
<holstein> they are what we got
<holstein> anything we have local is a duplication of efforts
<holstein> and would be confusing (in my opinion)
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, are you saying we try to pull content from the wiki into the website and make is pretty then?
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: for user-editable content they totally suck.
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: sure, but that ubuntu-wide
<holstein> thast*
<falktx> holstein: is it possible to put the wiki into an iframe?
<holstein> its not something we can change now
 * scott-upstairs thinks that edubuntu is doing that already
<scott-upstairs> falktx, what is an iframe?
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: artwork team tried to work that around
<falktx> scott-upstairs: a html frame (part of the site), rendered as the site, but that actually comes from another place
<holstein> im sure we can, but we have to be sure the new user knows whats what
<holstein> and why they are being redirected
<holstein> then, we have to maintain both...
<scott-upstairs> falktx, yes, i would like to do this!
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: they failed because Canonical doesn't care about community artwork team
<holstein> shnatsel|busy:  :/
<scott-upstairs> as holstein said, i don't want to duplicate effort
<holstein> yup
<holstein> we *cant* do that now
<holstein> we dont have the resources to waste effort
<holstein> we have wikis, and forums
<holstein> it would be work to leave them, and implement something on our own
<scott-upstairs> okay so that plan is i will see what i can do to move the new site, then work with falktx to see about using the iframe bit to display existing wiki information in the website
<holstein> not that we cant do that at some point
<scott-upstairs> s/that/the
<scott-upstairs> holstein, ^^^
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i like that
<holstein> even if its just links to the current stuff
<holstein> thats fine with me
<astraljava> Okay, sounds good. Perhaps we should move on to other things now?
<scott-upstairs> please
<falktx> wait a bit
<scott-upstairs> oh... :)
<astraljava> falktx: Go ahead.
<falktx> we need to make sure the ubuntu wiki supports this
<falktx> some site do, others don't
<scott-upstairs> falktx, edubuntu is doing this already some how
<falktx> scott-upstairs: website?
<scott-upstairs> aye
<falktx> please post an example link
<scott-upstairs> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio
<scott-upstairs> this also is apparently better at SEO as well
<scott-upstairs> i haven't look at the source so i'm not sure, but they have all Ubuntu Studio edits too quickly (IMO) for copying of vast tracts of text to their servers
<holstein> as long as it doesnt add an edit point, and we can handle the maintanence, im all for it
<shnatsel|busy> looks cool indeed
<falktx> well, I don't think this is really easy stuff
<falktx> we should contact them, they will surely help though
<scott-upstairs> REALLY good example, our agenda for today:  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4
<shnatsel|busy> screenshots.ubuntu.com is just screenshots.debian.com, I'm pretty sure one can add a custom CSS to that system
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I guess the new website would have a "wiki" tab that pushes the US wiki, right?
<scott-upstairs> falktx, i don't really know
<scott-upstairs> all links from edubuntu point to the real site
<scott-upstairs> but let's discuss this after we get the new website up, that will take long enough already
<falktx> ah, they are probably accessing the database and creating his own pages
<astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access
<meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access
<falktx> scott-upstairs: that is probably a custom mediawiki theme, or some other wiki engine
<holstein> w00t
<shnatsel|busy> falktx: MoinMoin
<falktx> ah, ok
<shnatsel|busy> http://moinmo.in
<falktx> shnatsel|busy: we'll just need a custom theme to match the new website
<astraljava> Okay, just a side-note, could we finish our speaks with double-dots (..), so the chair will know we're done with the topic?
<astraljava> I mean, when you're done with your soap-box for the time, add that on an otherwise empty line.
<scott-upstairs> okay
<scott-upstairs> ..
<shnatsel|busy> ..
<falktx> all good now I think
<falktx> next please
<astraljava> Thanks, it will make the chair's life easier in the future, as we're growing now.
<falktx> ;)
<astraljava> #subtopic Beta1 testing
<astraljava> Thanks for everyone involved! We got a (not-so) beautiful release for it.
<astraljava> #topic New Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio development monthly Meeting | Current topic:  New Business
<astraljava> #subtopic XFCE migration
<astraljava> We have finally gotted rid of unity \m/
<holstein> :)
<falktx> astraljava: were the fixed-menu pushed to the repos?
<astraljava> On the otherhand, our sessions still look like crap.
<holstein> hehe
<scott-upstairs> yay, congratulations astraljava for your efforts to accomplish this
<holstein> hey, its a work in progress
<astraljava> Which leads to falktx's question, no it is not.
<astraljava> I'll try to get it done tonight.
 * scott-upstairs was going to download a dialy image to test lightdm and menu
<astraljava> Weekend didn't really go as planned.
<scott-upstairs> i'll wait a few more days then, astraljava please let me know when it is pushed so i can test
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Will do.
<falktx> they should appear in the oneiric-changes mailiing list
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> We will need to look at how our session integrates with XFCE desktop.
<astraljava> I can look into this too, but are there others who could assist (or better yet, take over?)
<scott-upstairs> didirock helped me last time with 'ubuntu-classic' (i.e. gnome-panel) vs. 'ubuntu' (i.e. unity)
<falktx> I never got a working ISO install, so I don't know how it looks. can someone explain in detail what is the issue?
<scott-upstairs> falktx, when you select your user name it defaults to some other session that xfce
<holstein> astraljava: it would be nice to get the xubuntu guy help
<astraljava> falktx: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/(X)ubuntu_studio_cropped.png
<scott-upstairs> you have to select xfce for it to work
<holstein> i could do that prolly
<holstein> i have no idea how to do it on my own
<falktx> uh, ugly
<astraljava> That's how it looks like now. There are no studio icons, no desktop wallpaper etc.
<holstein> but if someone will help, i'll try and organize it
<shnatsel|busy> I think I can help
<shnatsel|busy> Didrocks helped me with that already
<falktx> astraljava: can't we just copy xubuntu-default-settings there?
<astraljava> holstein: shnatsel|busy: Excellent! Can we assign this task to you?
<holstein> sure
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, that link was for the menu
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: just let me know what i can do... and take it easy on me :)
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: Switch default X session? OK, assign me to the bug.
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Sure, but you can see that none of the standard icons aren't replaced by ours.
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: The thing is, we only have XFCE session in the greeter.
<scott-upstairs> oh, i thought you meant that for the xfce session
<astraljava> So none of our stuff will be loaded.
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: you have some custom stuff beyound XFCE?
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Yes, our theming should have stuff that replaces the standard stuff. But we can discuss about that on our own channel after the meeting.
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I've worked only with gnome-session and switching sessions in LightDM, I've never configured xfce4-session
<shnatsel|busy> oh, and switching them in GDM too, obviously...
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Okay, but are you willing to look into that?
<astraljava> falktx: Good question, one that I don't have an answer to at this moment.
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: OK, I'll try
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, that would be awesome
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Let's just be vocal about it on the channel, so others can chime in if you get stuck.
<scott-upstairs> cory should have _something_ done, perhaps we should email him ?
<holstein> scott-upstairs: about XFCE?
<scott-upstairs> aye!
<holstein> i think he wanted to kill it right?
<astraljava> #action holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session.
<meetingology> ACTION: holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session.
<scott-upstairs> if cory has something started no point in shnatsel|busy having to rediscover anything
<holstein> wont hurt to ask \
<scott-upstairs> i'll send him an email then
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Good point, so can you ask him?
<falktx> I think xfce is just not using the US theme
<falktx> if it uses the theme, the icons will look good, i guess
<astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session
<meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session
<scott-upstairs> he said something about it's easy because xfce uses an XML file
<astraljava> ..'s ?
<shnatsel|busy> custom icon themes in XFCE?! do they have any link to sessions at all?!
<falktx> hm, confused
<falktx> I was talking about the screenshot, were the icons are not right
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: I believe that's what should get done while you select a session in the lightdm greeter.
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> ...or rather, after you've selected it, and logged in.
<astraljava> But again, we can discuss the technicals on our channel afterwards.
<astraljava> ..
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: in GNOME it's just a default setting. It's not dependent on sessions (however sessions could change that before Natty)
<falktx> I know this for sure, xfce uses some different icon names than gnome, so a little symlinks will be needed in the US icon theme
<holstein> which would be easy?
<holstein> right?
<holstein> and that would give us our current icons in XFCE?
<holstein> that would be nice
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I've ported Humanity to LibreOffice. No more icon porting for me.
<falktx> yes
<holstein> i think a good goal would be to change as little as possible
<falktx> holstein: I did that for kxstudio kde-gnome compatibility
<holstein> when folks fire it up, it looks like gnome2-ish
<falktx> yep
<falktx> holstein: that is the point I guess
<holstein> falktx: for now at least
<falktx> have the interface looking like in previous releases
<holstein> the least amount of change
<holstein> i like the look/feel anyways
<holstein> and i think others do too
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Noted, thanks.
<scott-upstairs> let's discuss this at length later
<scott-upstairs> ..
<shnatsel|busy> I personally think that US should not invent its own themes; I'm a strong believer in division of labor
<shnatsel|busy> So let icon designers do the icon set
<scott-upstairs> +1
<shnatsel|busy> and we should make the distro, not icon sets
<holstein> sure
<holstein> i can identify with that
<shnatsel|busy> package and integrate apps, etc
<scott-upstairs> need some ".."
<shnatsel|busy> do like Ubuntu did - just use elementaty icons with minimal mods
<scott-upstairs> 's
<falktx> faenza ftw!
<astraljava> Maybe we shall add theming and branding for discussion in later meetings, then, as this seems to have some controversy in opinions.
<shnatsel|busy> falktx: fancy but not intuitive and the whole experience breaks when you meet an icon that's not from faenza
<shnatsel|busy> ..
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava++
<scott-upstairs> i hope we can speed things up because i will need to be going rather soon
<scott-upstairs> we're already +40 minutes
<astraljava> #subtopic lightdm
<falktx> eek, 40 mins
<astraljava> Like mentioned already, no it is not using the new background yet.
<scott-upstairs> anyone testing the lightdm background fix falktx did?
<scott-upstairs> oh, is that what you need to push astraljava as well?
<astraljava> #action astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter
<meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter
<astraljava> ..
<scott-upstairs> let me know when as with the menu astraljava , i'll test
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> #subtopic new audience
<astraljava> This is a huge one, and as we're pressed on time, shall we move onwards?
<holstein> well, we could just say what it is
<holstein> i think we have all agreed right?
<holstein> new users?
<falktx> new users!
<holstein> maybe not...
<scott-upstairs> let's say that the idea is to support musicians who are new to linux
<falktx> I agree it's new users
<scott-upstairs> but hold comments until a later meeting
<holstein> yup, new users to linux/audio
<scott-upstairs> ..
<holstein> we need to nail this down though
<holstein> and i think that does
<holstein> seems like so many decisions hinge on this target audience
<holstein> keepint to the musician new to linux is fine
<astraljava> Right, so let's discuss that on October's meeting, so that we get it right for the next cycle.
<holstein> that gives us a goal
<shnatsel|busy> Artists too!
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, aye!  good point
<shnatsel|busy> And photographers
<holstein> i can go there too
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> #action move new audience to October's meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: move new audience to October's meeting
<astraljava> #subtopic Beta2 is coming
<holstein> subscribing to the iso testing is how to help with that right?
<astraljava> The testing will happen on around 20th to 22nd of September.
<astraljava> holstein: That is correct.
<scott-upstairs> sept 22
<holstein> cool..
<scott-upstairs> oh, sorry, you already got it :)
<astraljava> Everyone is encouraged to do that, so please, if you can spare time for it, that'd would rock! \m/
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<falktx> wow, ~2 weeks from beta to final release?
<scott-upstairs> hopefully we will not have so many respins this time as well
<scott-upstairs> falktx, that's the way the schedule fell this cycle :(
<falktx> :(
<astraljava> For those un-aware of the release schedule, check:
<scott-upstairs> i think we can avoid FFe's if we file bugs against things like lightdm or the menu to fix things also
<astraljava> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<scott-upstairs> which technically wouldn't need a FFe or other anyway
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: FFes are not too big of a problem for us, when most of the changes we do only affect us.
<astraljava> ..
<astraljava> Anything else for New Business?
<holstein> there was something
<astraljava> Oh sorry.
<holstein> xsane to whatever is used now
<astraljava> #subtopic new meeting schedule
<holstein> simplescan?
<holstein> are we on simplescan?
<shnatsel|busy> yes
<holstein> this is non-important i think
<shnatsel|busy> simplescan
<holstein> but it came up on the mailing list
<shnatsel|busy> Ubuntu changed 3 releases ago
<shnatsel|busy> doo eet!
<holstein> i think when we have time, switching to simplescan too would be a good idea
<astraljava> We can do the change. It's not a big problem, I think.
<scott-upstairs> ewww, yeah we should probably do likewise
<holstein> astraljava: if its easy
<shnatsel|busy> it's easy
<astraljava> #action astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan
<meetingology> ACTION: astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan
<shnatsel|busy> remove line from seed, add line to seed
<scott-upstairs> just changing the seed and getting luke to update the metas
<holstein> i cant find that email... there were a few more suggestions
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: yep, from me
<astraljava> Yep, we'll just have to check the dependencies.
<astraljava> ..
<holstein> that was the easiest, and most relavant though
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: COOL
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: "last call for oneiric seeds" thread
<holstein> what were the others?
<holstein> 2 others?
<scott-upstairs> darktable
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: Darktable, photo seed, something else
<shnatsel|busy> MyPaint
<holstein> maybe thats whats up... i have no experience with those
<scott-upstairs> holstein, shnatsel|busy, can you figure out what you want and talk to astraljava after the meeting about including them?
<holstein> sure
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> Thanks!
<holstein> no problem :)
<shnatsel|busy> I also propose to replace nautilus-image-converter with Phatch: photobatch.stani.be
<shnatsel|busy> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/phatch
<shnatsel|busy> That Nautilus extension is useless because Ubuntu Studio has switched to Thunar anyway, and Phatch is a praised and useful app.
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: np
<astraljava> Now, I mentioned that we should start having meetings more often for the next cycle.
<holstein> astraljava: sure
<astraljava> Maybe every week is a little too much.
<holstein> twice a month?
<astraljava> But bi-weekly?
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I suggest weekly
<holstein> maybe the 1st and 3rd sundays?
<scott-upstairs> +1 more meetings
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: If we can commit to that, then I'm all for it.
<holstein> if we need more, we can go weekly
<falktx> twice a month sounds cool to me
<astraljava> Shall we vote on that?
<scott-upstairs> can we start with two meetings a month (bi-monthly) and see how it goes?
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: cool?
<falktx> scott-upstairs: I'm with you
<craigs63> same time of day as this?
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs++
<holstein> craigs63: i can check the schedule here, but thats a good point
<astraljava> craigs63: That can be adjusted.
<holstein> maybe a different time for the 2nd meeting
<holstein> for those who cant make this meeting
<astraljava> We can always agree on the next one in a current meeting.
<astraljava> Yeah, holstein's got the point.
<astraljava> So, we agree on bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
<holstein> i like that
<astraljava> #action bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting.
<scott-upstairs> maybe email the mailing list to give available times for everyoen?
<scott-upstairs> ..
<holstein> i can check availablility here, and try and field some times
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Absolutely, chair will have to be more active than the (presently lacking) one has been, sorry. :-/
<craigs63> Well, bi-weekly means not necessarily falling on the 1st Sunday.
<astraljava> Yep, that's the point.
<holstein> yeah, we can rotate the chair
<holstein> i dont mind doing stuff like that too, since i cant do much other stuff
<astraljava> Like for instance Xubuntu-devel has the other on Sundays, and the other on Mondays.
<holstein> astraljava: i think you're doing great :)
<astraljava> I think we agreed on rotating the chair just for motivational purposes, but that can be discussed later.
<astraljava> ..
<astraljava> #topic Goals for Oneiric + 1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio development monthly Meeting | Current topic:  Goals for Oneiric + 1
<astraljava> #subtopic live dvd
<holstein> i think we table that til later
<holstein> til after oneiric
<scott-upstairs> table live dvd?
<holstein> live DVD is not for now right?
<holstein> would that simplifiy our situation at all?
<scott-upstairs> can we talk if this is the direction we want to go for oneiric+1?
<astraljava> So far it seems that we have agreed to switch to having a live dvd instead of the alternate install
<holstein> or make it worse?
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: we gotta test it during Oneiric at least, and start it now - or we'll never do it
<astraljava> Well, the topic says "Oneiric + 1"
<holstein> i think if making a live DVD is easier for us for the oneiric release, lets do it
<holstein> otherwise, i dont want to 'rock the boat'
<scott-upstairs> holstein, not for oneiric, never will happen
<holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah?
<holstein> hmmm
<astraljava> We don't have time for official live dvd, for sure.
<holstein> i mean... i think its the way to go
<scott-upstairs> but can we agree as a group that we want to do a live dvd for oneiric+1?
<astraljava> But if someone wants to do that as a hobby, by all means.
<holstein> scott-upstairs: yeah
<holstein> i want that for 12.04
<scott-upstairs> +1 from me
<astraljava> 0
<holstein> not now, unless it drastically simplifies the process
<holstein> astraljava: we can talk about it for sure
<astraljava> holstein: The talk is on the release _after_ Oneiric.
<holstein> i can see either wat
<holstein> way*
<holstein> but, i think if the new user is the target, the alternate installer is a drag
<astraljava> Please keep that in mind.
<astraljava> Okay, so far we're +2. Any other votes?
<holstein> +1
<astraljava> That was already in. :)
<holstein> oh... hehe :)
<astraljava> falktx: craigs63: shnatsel|busy: others?
<shnatsel|busy> Going LiveDVD for Oneiric //means starting now
<shnatsel|busy> +1
<astraljava> Okay, that one pushed it over the brink, we're going with that then.
<holstein> \o/
<astraljava> #action switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1
<meetingology> ACTION: switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1
<falktx> I can help, surely
<falktx> but I need to ask permission for a custom build
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> Of course, we will have to keep track on how that progresses from early on, and have alternate as an easy fallback in case things turn awkward.
<falktx> UbuntuStudio 11.10 +KXStudio repos (updated apps and some new)
<astraljava> ..
<falktx> it's like a UbuntuStudio Remix
<holstein> hehe
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, i would like to work very closely with you on the live dvd
<holstein> we could always have, and encourage community spins
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: awesome!
<astraljava> holstein: Sure, but we're discussing official spins here.
<holstein> and get falktx in the mix too
<holstein> astraljava: sure, but we cant have kxstudio pacagkes in an official spin
<astraljava> Images that are spinned by Canonical services.
<holstein> we cant add non repo pacakges right?
<falktx> holstein: If I make one, I would have to host it. So hosted on kxstudio sourceforge, a US-remix makes sense I guess
<astraljava> holstein: I know, that's why we're not including KXStudio in the discussion directly. We can, of course, utilize falktx's excellent knowledge and experience on the matter.
<holstein> cool
<falktx> astraljava: ^
<astraljava> falktx: Noted.
<holstein> well, we are at an hour... thats pretty much it?
<astraljava> Can I get any ..'s ?
<falktx> astraljava: also note that, using PPAs, we are free to do/add anything
<astraljava> holstein: Did we ever limit ourselves to an hour?
<falktx> astraljava: including VST plugins
<holstein> astraljava: nay
<holstein> just sayin
<astraljava> Sure.
<scott-upstairs> ..
<holstein> i think scott-upstairs needs to split
<astraljava> falktx: Yup, but we cannot, as Ubuntu Studio.
<scott-upstairs> i'm good for a bit more
<holstein> cool
<holstein> me too
<astraljava> Right, moving on.
<astraljava> #subtopic lowlatency kernel
<astraljava> Anyone checked this recently?
<scott-upstairs> i'll spearhead this
<holstein> i guess we still need it right?
<falktx> astraljava: I know, but a community image can, that's the cool thing about it
<falktx> I guess...
<scott-upstairs> yes, we need it and we will have it for oneiric
<holstein> scott-upstairs: w00t
<scott-upstairs> i was relying on persia, i'll be more persistent with him
<falktx> abogani usually did this
<falktx> what happened to him?
<scott-upstairs> falktx he made the package, yes
<scott-upstairs> but i am doing it now for him
<scott-upstairs> and if i can't get persia to commit to anyting
<holstein> yeah, he doesnt want to maintain it anymore
<scott-upstairs> i'm going to start pushing extremely hard in #ubuntu-motu to review the package in REVU
<holstein> scott-upstairs: let me know
<scott-upstairs> i plan to move heaven and earth as much as i can to make this happen
<holstein> ill mention it to the graners :)
<astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward
<meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward
<astraljava> ..
<scott-upstairs> we don't need UKT input for this, just MOTU
<scott-upstairs> ..
<scott-upstairs> can we skip to launchpad and lbueprints ?
<shnatsel|busy> ..
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Sure.
<scott-upstairs> i feel it's very important
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Did you include it in the agenda?I'm not seeing it.
<shnatsel|busy> I did
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: refresh :)
<scott-upstairs> it's down close to bottom
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Ahh, thanks.
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, should probably table this topic anyways
<shnatsel|busy> I feel that US needs more organized workflow inside the project
<astraljava> #action skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting.
<astraljava> #topic Improving workflow
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio development monthly Meeting | Current topic:  Improving workflow
<astraljava> #subtopic Use a public specification tracker (LP blueprints?)
<shnatsel|busy> for example, there's this LiveDVD initiative, but nobody except those who visit the meetings know about it
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: scott-upstairs: Go ahead.
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: actually, its been emailed around a few time
<shnatsel|busy> there's no place which lists plans for next release
<shnatsel|busy> etc
<scott-upstairs> or keeps things organized and easy to update
<holstein> i think there are, but there are many places
<holstein> the wikis get fragmented
<holstein> and duplicated
<shnatsel|busy> there needs one, open, easy to maintain place
<scott-upstairs> but this would be a good way to keep it all together and let people know exactly where to go and update
<holstein> its not clear, thats for sure.. i can agree
<shnatsel|busy> I have a writeup on that considering different options
<shnatsel|busy> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: i like that
<shnatsel|busy> We ended up using LP blueprints
<scott-upstairs> i've been exploring some blueprints as well and coming to grips with them and specifications
<shnatsel|busy> and that really worked
<shnatsel|busy> the thing I love about blueprints is that not only they provide a convenient way to track plans and proposals (we have LiveDVD proposal but it's not written down anywhere, the todo list exists only in my mind, etc), but they also make those plans visible to the public.
<shnatsel|busy> http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves really worked - people not involved in the project started picking up blueprints and working on them
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: what does that mean to us though?
<holstein> what would i do to use that?
 * holstein looking at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: here we come to the next, closely related topic
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: workflow guidelines
<holstein> :)
<astraljava> #subtopic Write/update workflow guidelines
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: if you take time to read the blog post behind the link above, you'll see that first it explains the concept of a blueprint, why they are needed and how to use them
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: then it explains the desired workflow
<holstein> sure, i'll give it a look
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: that ensures tjat proposals are seen and plan listings are available for anybody to read
<scott-upstairs> +1
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: moreover, community contributors can pick up certain tasks
<holstein> sure, i like the idea
<holstein> +1
<holstein> im sure it works well
<holstein> we are just so wiki-centric
<astraljava> A needless +1
<astraljava> This is just a given. :)
<shnatsel|busy> I actually thought it will happen, but I was surprised nevertheless when a stranger came and did lots of work that I planned for myself but wrote down to a blueprint anyway
<astraljava> shnatsel|busy: Are you willing to drive this issue, so that every member of the team gets familiar with it, and it starts to see actual usage?
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: maybe you can talk me through setting one up sometime
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: I hope that my journal post (link above) is sufficient
<shnatsel|busy> I can explain any details you need
<scott-upstairs> i can help those who want to create one as well
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: we also need a way to communicate with the audience
<shnatsel|busy> astraljava: to make all that openness work
<falktx> website comments!
<shnatsel|busy> falktx: blog-centric website!
<craigs63> +1
<shnatsel|busy> falktx: posts in newsblogs about us!
<holstein> yeah, but it might be a little late
<holstein> i mean, we can do that
<holstein> but, we need to start over on the site
<shnatsel|busy> OMG!Ubuntu! is a good way to give visibility to something.
<holstein> and its been *so* long that the currrent one has be borked
<falktx> holstein: the new proposal allows comments
<astraljava> I will add that as an item for a later meeting, we will not have time for it today.
<holstein> i hate to take on a new system, and start over
<scott-upstairs> we can make a blog site that is not at our current website
<scott-upstairs> like OMGUbuntu
<holstein> at this point, i want something new/funtional even if its wrong
<falktx> scott-upstairs: what happened to jorge (creator of the site proposal) ?
<holstein> falktx: busy :/
<holstein> new job?
<scott-upstairs> falktx, jorge moved to japan and is too busy with a new job
<holstein> something like that
<astraljava> ..
<holstein> he checks in occaionally though
<holstein> and i like that site
<falktx> is it possible to have the his website sources?
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: somebody gotta take up where he left
<holstein> i remember us talking about blogs back then though
<falktx> I'm willing to keep working on the site, but I need sources...
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, are you suggesting we make dedicated blog site or roll it into whatever website we end up with?
<holstein> can we remember why we didnt do a blog?
<scott-upstairs> i like the former because it can be split between people
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: make the main US website blog-centric for now and use newsblogs to promote the project as well
<astraljava> The topic, however isn't on the website, now. Can we discuss that later on?
<scott-upstairs> absolutely ...
<scott-upstairs> ..
<astraljava> I guess we already covered the next subtopic, then.
<shnatsel|busy> To sum up, we need workflow guidelines to be written, and lots of deduplication, switching to more user-friendly services, etc
<astraljava> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio development monthly Meeting | Current topic:  Any other business?
<astraljava> Sorry, shnatsel|busy, please go on.
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: im all for that, and will help anyway i can
<holstein> duplication is a drag
<astraljava> Agreed, we're lagging behind in that one.
<holstein> and when i think about cleaning up our wiki's, i get sad
<astraljava> And a good thing to keep in mind with this is that it's not contained in a devel cycle timeframe.
<holstein> i would much rather implement something we would like and move forward with that
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: then drop it.
<holstein> shnatsel|busy: drop what?
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: blueprints + links to whatever services where the full specs are stored
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: that's the core
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: bug tracker rocks
<scott-upstairs> drop the wiki he's saying
<holstein> yeah.. but can we?
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: you also need a blog, that's a website affair
<holstein> scott-upstairs: would we just clean out the wikis?
<holstein> will someone delete them for us? the pages?
<holstein> anyways... for later...
<scott-upstairs> i'm sure we can do something
<scott-upstairs> we're pushing 90 minutes, i gotta go
<holstein> lets just say, this is a good idea for now, and see where it goes
<shnatsel|busy> holstein: if you don't like them, don't link to them from main US wiki page
<shnatsel|busy> ok
<shnatsel|busy> ..
<astraljava> Right, so to cut it short, any other business that hasn't been discussed yet?
<falktx> delete the wiki? and have the webpage with a wiki contained?
<scott-upstairs> shnatsel|busy, i would like to work with you again on the work flow, blueprints, blog direction and develop a good plan to move forward
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: awsum
<shnatsel|busy> scott-upstairs: I already did much of that for elementary, so I think we can reuse lots of stuff
<astraljava> #action scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire)
<meetingology> ACTION: scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire)
<astraljava> If not, then I'm going to close this meeting.
<astraljava> Next meeting is...
<astraljava> October 2nd.
<astraljava> 17000 UTC.
<astraljava> oops
<astraljava> 1700 UTC, of course.
<astraljava> On #ubuntu-meeting.
<holstein> great meeting all... thanks
<astraljava> #topic Next Meeting Chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio development monthly Meeting | Current topic:  Next Meeting Chair
<astraljava> Any volunteers?
<holstein> astraljava: im always up for it assuming im home
<astraljava> holstein: Thanks.
<astraljava> #action holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens
<meetingology> ACTION: holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens
<astraljava> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Sep  4 18:28:18 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-04-17.01.moin.txt
<holstein> we can leave it a little loose for now, and come up with a rotation soon
<holstein> something we can reference easily
<astraljava> Thanks everyone for attending, and keeping Ubuntu Studio afloat! :)
<astraljava> We have a little to learn on how we keep it coherent and more intact, but we're getting there. :)
<AlanBell> thanks astraljava, awesome use of the bot :)
<astraljava> AlanBell: Thanks so much for providing it! :)
<astraljava> It certainly makes life so much easier.
<astraljava> Just will have to learn to use it better, and then try to get the team use it more as well.
<astraljava> What a wonderful tool.
<AlanBell> I want to make the minutes look better, any suggestions would be great
<astraljava> I'll give it some thought when I plant it on the wiki.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-27
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in four minutes
<Laney> ok
<Laney> cody-somerville: here?
<Laney> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 27 14:01:21 2012 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Laney> who's here?
<micahg> o/
<tumbleweed> o/
 * bdrung is here, but ill.
<barry> o/
<Laney> is the agenda current?
 * Laney is looking at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-13-19.09.html and seeing things not on there
<micahg> Laney: it is now :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> #topic Review of action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of action items
<Laney> #subtopic micahg to document the zentyal packageset
<Laney> pending?
<micahg> yeah
<Laney> #subtopic micahg to ping beuno regarding CC discussion on whether upload rights should confer membership
<Laney> done - yokozar started it
<Laney> we got some +1s - should be able to finish with this before the next meeting?
<tumbleweed> sounds likely
<Laney> ok
<micahg> yeah, if everyone could please respond (DMB members, myself included)
<Laney> will someone get the CC to decide?
<Laney> I'll +1
<micahg> well, the idea was we (DMB) decide and the CC only acts if we're deadlocked
<Laney> oh, so we can just go ahead
<micahg> AIUI at least :)
<barry> doesn't sound like we're deadlocked
<Laney> sounds good
<Laney> #subtopic stgraber to clean up coredev/motu duplicate package set rights
<micahg> I think this was done as well
<Laney> I also believe that to be the case
<Laney> #subtopic stgraber to clean up coredev/motu duplicate package set rights
<Laney> that's scott remnant fyi
<Laney> oops
<Laney> #subtopic remove scott from ubuntu-core-dev until he signs the CoC
<Laney> & also done
<Laney> #subtopic Laney (tumbleweed) to contact the uploaders of unused packagesets
<Laney> I just pinged Luke about sugar
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/quantal/ which other ones are a concern?
<tumbleweed> is unr used?
<ScottK> Which Scott?
<Laney> I propose to contact the TB as owners to get rid of unr/netbook(/mobile?)
<tumbleweed> ScottK: not you :)
<Laney> 27/08 15:06:34 <Laney> that's scott remnant fyi
<ScottK> OK.
<micahg> ScottK: keybuk
<ScottK> tumbleweed provided the critical part of the answer to my question.
<Laney> cyphermox just said in #-desktop that networkmanager is unused
<micahg> Laney: schooltool and mobile
<Laney> #action laney to delete network-manager packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: laney to delete network-manager packageset
<Laney> #action laney to contact menesis about schooltool packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: laney to contact menesis about schooltool packageset
<Laney> #action laney to contact TB to see if netbook/unr/mobile packagesets are still needed
<meetingology> ACTION: laney to contact TB to see if netbook/unr/mobile packagesets are still needed
<Laney> ok?
<micahg> sounds good
<Laney> #topic Per-Package Uploader application: Keng-Yu Lin
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Per-Package Uploader application: Keng-Yu Lin
<Laney> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Keng-YuLin/PPU
<Laney> kengyu: Hey, that's you ;-)
<kengyu> hello all. /wave
<Laney> kengyu: Can you introduce yourself and your application please?
<kengyu> I am a Canonical employee; I work in the Hardware Enablement team, we are responsible for the Ubuntu preloads for OEMs.
<kengyu> I am from Taipei, Taiwan, and am also a Ubuntu user for long time. :-)
<kengyu> I am applying the PPU for fwts...
<Laney> Can you quickly explain for the laymen here what fwts is about?
<kengyu> because it is part of HWE team's project, and we offer the software for a various uses (certification, OEM, UEFI plugfest, etc).
<kengyu> it's suite of tests focusing on BIOS (or firmware in others words) and UEFI hardware (we are still working on this).
<bdrung> kengyu: what does fwts stand for?
<kengyu> "FirmWare Test Suite"
<kengyu> the current tests fwts has in documented in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Reference/fwts
<micahg> kengyu: I noticed in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fwts/0.24.21 you switched from dh-autoreconf to autoreconf, could you please explain why that was done?
<kengyu> it's just because that Lucid does not have dh-autoreconf and Lucid was the LTS at that time, so I decided to keep the latest code working on Lucid.
<micahg> kengyu: were you aware that dh-autoreconf did more than just the configure step?
<micahg> kengyu: also, since I assume you weren't uploading to the archive, dh-autoreconf was available in lucid-backports
<kengyu> micahg, I think dh-autoreconf does not cleaning work. But my original intention was not to "revert" the use of dh-autoreconf and use hand-made 'autoreconf' commands in debian/rules...
<kengyu> I added the dh-autoreconf support in a previous patch. But had another one to use autoreconf because of Lucid support.
<micahg> kengyu: right, which would be fine, but there are two parts and I only saw the configure part in that changelog
<micahg> s/changelog/diff/
<kengyu> micahg, it's good to know that it is in Lucid-backports. at the time I just noticed the build failure in the PPA.
<micahg> kengyu: right, the more important part though is only implementing a partial manual rule in its place
<kengyu> micahg, Yes, thanks for this. This will be something I will work on. :-)
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> does anybody have any other questions?
<tumbleweed> sure
<tumbleweed> kengyu: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=hwe/fwts.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca9a4ac791265e0e4e945c2472aee6650b078d7d
<tumbleweed> does that mean it's ging to get upstream releases soon?
<tumbleweed> *going
<kengyu> tumbleweed, it's the plan. at least releasing as a tarball eases the pain for packaging for other distros (we've seen bug reported from gentoo too).
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> can we expect to see it in Debian, too, then?
<kengyu> I have that as my plan. But it takes some more time before issuing the ITP. the ACPICA code (is in fwts) from Intel has some legal/copyright issue.
<kengyu> there will be some more discussion I expect.
 * tumbleweed looks forward to that at some point
<Laney> kengyu: Quick question about the Ubuntu release cycle
<Laney> kengyu: Do you know what Feature Freeze is and how it would impact any uploads of fwts you might perform?
<kengyu> Laney, yes, after that freeze any upload will require the FFE.
<Laney> kengyu: Where can you find out whethere we are in feature (or any other) freeze?
<Laney> also, it's not quite 'any' upload â only ones which contain new features (i.e. aren't purely bug fix)
<kengyu> from wiki.ubuntu.com there is a schedule table.
<kengyu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<Laney> kengyu: thanks, that's it from me
<Laney> bdrung: go
<bdrung> kengyu: fwts will fail to build twice in the row once you switch to the "3.0 (quilt)" source format
<kengyu> bdrung, really! I did not notice that.
<bdrung> kengyu: the source package content changes after one build: http://paste.debian.net/185847/
<Laney> that's what micahg was getting at with the autoreconf questions
<bdrung> kengyu: there might be no difference if you use the same autotools version
<kengyu> brendand, ok, I will look at this. there should be more cleaning.
<Laney> it's what dh_autoreconf_clean would do for you if you used that
<bdrung> kengyu: do you check the lintian report including experimental before the upload? lintian found some typos in the source.
<kengyu> bdrung, no, I did check the lintian error/warning. But I just check the ones from pbuilder-dist...
<bdrung> kengyu: lintian has experimental and pedentic tags that are useful to check, too
<Laney> running out of time, let's move on
<Laney> barry: got anything to ask?
<kengyu> bdrung, this is nice to know. I will check it next time. :-)
<barry> Laney: no, my questions have already been asked by others
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> anyone else?
<bdrung> nothing important
<Laney> education can continue elsewhere afterwards
<Laney> #vote Grant Keng-Yu Lin PPU to fwts
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Keng-Yu Lin PPU to fwts
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> #voters bdrung Laney barry micahg tumbleweed stgraber cody-somerville
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney barry bdrung cody-somerville micahg stgraber tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<Laney> +1 good endorsements, good review process upstream
<meetingology> +1 good endorsements, good review process upstream received from Laney
 * Laney peers at micahg 
<micahg> +1, would love to see this in Debian soon
<meetingology> +1, would love to see this in Debian soon received from micahg
<Laney> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Keng-Yu Lin PPU to fwts
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Laney> congratulations!
<kengyu> thanks. :-)
<Laney> #action stgraber to add ppu for lexical to fwts
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to add ppu for lexical to fwts
<Laney> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<Laney> silence is good
<Laney> #topic next chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next chair
<Laney> who is it?
<Laney> I lost track
<barry> cody-somerville :)
<Laney> or?
<tumbleweed> probably me, in practice
<Laney> ok
<barry> i think so
<Laney> #action next chair cody-somerville (tumbleweed)
<meetingology> ACTION: next chair cody-somerville (tumbleweed)
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 27 14:58:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-27-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-27-14.01.html
<barry> thanks Laney !
 * Laney urghs about the post-meeting tasks
 * micahg urghs with Laney
<Laney> hm
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ubuntu-archive-tools$ ./edit-acl add -s fwts -p lexical
<stgraber> Added:
<Laney> AlanBell: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-27-14.01.html is the bot case sensitive wrt nicknames?
<stgraber> Archive Upload Rights for lexical: archive 'primary', source package 'fwts'
<stgraber> Laney: ^
<Laney> stgraber: ta!
<Laney> he magically appears after the meeting is done :P
<stgraber> :)
 * micahg goes poof again
<micahg> oops...E_TOOMANYCHANNELS
<AlanBell> Laney: erm, possibly, did someone change case during a meeting or something?
<Laney> no
<Laney> I did my own actions with #action laney ...
<Laney> not #action Laney
<Laney> and they got grouped as unassigned items
<AlanBell> ah, that probably is case sensitive
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks`> hello
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 27 18:03:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week
<jdstrand> I've got more MIR auditing and pending updates
<jdstrand> I should also be finished with the second iteration of aa-sandbox and send that to the list
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is not here today
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
<sbeattie> I also have a couple of updates to finish testing and push out.
<sbeattie> I also need to get the apparmor-dbus ppa going and review aa-sandbox.
<sbeattie> that's it for me.
<sbeattie> did micahg make it back in time?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: I recommend holding off on that review til I submit again
<sbeattie> yeah
<jdstrand> I think he is not. he can jump in later if he comes back
<tyhicks> I'll go
<tyhicks> I'm handling triage this week
<tyhicks> I just returned from a long vacation and I'm still catching up
<tyhicks> Another couple hours and I should be back on top of everything
<tyhicks> While I was out, I finished xmlrpc-c patches for CVE-2012-0876 and CVE-2012-1148
<ubottu> The XML parser (xmlparse.c) in expat before 2.1.0 computes hash values without restricting the ability to trigger hash collisions predictably, which allows context-dependent attackers to cause a denial of service (CPU consumption) via an XML file with many identifiers with the same value. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-0876)
<ubottu> Memory leak in the poolGrow function in expat/lib/xmlparse.c in expat before 2.1.0 allows context-dependent attackers to cause a denial of service (memory consumption) via a large number of crafted XML files that cause improperly-handled reallocation failures when expanding entities. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-1148)
<tyhicks> I'll need to test those patches and try to get the updates out
<tyhicks> I say 'try' because I'll be at the Linux Security Summit Thursday and Friday of this week
<tyhicks> before I leave, i'm going to help jdstrand with a security audit
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<jjohansen> I guess I am up
<tyhicks> jjohansen: yep, you're up
<jjohansen> I need to finish up this the 2.8 port of the aa-dbus patches, and finish debugging the current set of kernel patches (rcu, fs update, ..), then I will be heading to Linux Security Summit for Thursday and Friday this week
<jjohansen> that is it for me jdstrand back to you
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/smokeping.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/chasen.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/msmtp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mhonarc.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-actionpack-2.3.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, jjohansen, tyhicks: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 27 18:20:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-27-18.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-27-18.03.html
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<jjohansen> Thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-28
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> hello
<m_3> o/
<smartboyhw> o/
<hallyn_> \o
<arosales> I think I am up next on the chair list
<zul> hola
<smoser> o/
 * arosales gets set up ready
<utlemming> 0/
<utlemming> er, o/
<arosales> 3 minutes past lets get started :-)
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 28 16:03:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is arosales. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> utlemming: thats an odd shape head
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<smoser> hm.. /me did not do that.
<arosales> do we need to carry that forward, no not really
<arosales> smoser: ^
<smoser> well we need to fix it. i'll get an answer.
<arosales> #action smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser follow up on bug 1028453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<arosales> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<arosales> #topic Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<arosales> bug 1028453
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028453 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
<arosales> utlemming: looks like you touched this last week
<utlemming> arosales: that was an accidental assignment on my part
<Daviey> Hmm, i thought this was resolved
<arosales> Any takers on getting this resolved before beta1?
<arosales> Daviey: could you comment in the bug?
<arosales> bug 1030914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1030914 in python-glanceclient (Ubuntu) "trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/glance', which is also in package glance-client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030914
<Daviey> yeah, leave it with me
<Daviey> zul: ^^
<arosales> Daviey: thanks
<zul> Daviey: thanks
<Daviey> (zul bug 1030914)
<arosales> in parallel bug 1034701
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1034701 in horizon (Ubuntu Quantal) "ImportError: Could not import settings 'openstack_dashboard.settings': missing dependency on python-glanceclient" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034701
<arosales> adam_g: ^ any idea on import settings on this one ^
<m_3> adam's in transit to cloud open I think
<arosales> m_3: ah yes, thanks.
<arosales> zul: Daviey: the list is largly openstack :-)
<Daviey> arosales: is that because the infra teams marks them up better? :)
<arosales> less cobbler, couchdb, and the oversized disk install
<arosales> Daviey: or just flakey code that produces bugs
<arosales> :-)
<jamespage> bug 1034701 should be fixed now - its just not been closed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1034701 in horizon (Ubuntu Quantal) "ImportError: Could not import settings 'openstack_dashboard.settings': missing dependency on python-glanceclient" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1034701
<arosales> but probably the former
<arosales> ok, so moving on to the next bug then
<arosales> bug 1028509
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028509 in nova (Ubuntu) "'nova rescue' fails if an instance image does not have a kernel_id" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028509
 * arosales starts broken record
<arosales> Daviey: zul ^
<zul> havent gotten to that one
<arosales> zul:  ok thanks
 * arosales going to list the remaining openstack bugs for daviey and zul:
<arosales> bug 995285
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 995285 in nova (Ubuntu Quantal) "if /etc/sudoers.d/nova_sudoers is removed, upgrades fail" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995285
<arosales> bug 1024281
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1024281 in python-glanceclient (Ubuntu) "Bug during installation. conflicts: python-glanceclient + glance-client" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024281
<arosales> bug 1025203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1025203 in quantum (Ubuntu) "Trying to overwrite '/etc/quantum/plugins/openvswitch/ovs_quantum_plugin.ini', which is also in package quantum-server" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1025203
<jamespage> dupe of bug 1030914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1030914 in python-glanceclient (Ubuntu) "trying to overwrite '/usr/bin/glance', which is also in package glance-client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030914
<arosales> jamespage: roger that, can up update the bug?
<jamespage> ack
<arosales> I think adam_g is working on 1024281
<arosales> zul any update on 995285
<jamespage> he is
<zul> *sigh* i just need to keep my head down
<Daviey> :)
<arosales> poor zul, sorry :-/
<zul> none yet im expecting when the first glanceclient bug is fixed then the rest will follow
<arosales> zul: ok thanks
<arosales> one for roaksoax:  bug 858867
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 858867 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "XMLRPC allows unauthed users access to various methods (which it shouldn't) " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858867
<zul> only one? ;)
<arosales> one that made it to the list
<jamespage> that should not be in the list any more
<jamespage> removed from tracking
<arosales> jamespage: thanks
<arosales> and any update on the couchdb bug 844995
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844995 in python-couchdb (Ubuntu) "Drop support for couchdb related packages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844995
<jamespage> I think that just needs demoting now
<arosales> who has the action there?
<jamespage> yep - its in the component mismatches list
<jamespage> it will get swept up by the archive admins - no further action required really - but I'll update the ticket to suggest demotion.
<arosales> jamespage: ok, thanks
<arosales> next up blueprints
 * arosales guesses these should be more of links than topic changes
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> #action arosales update IRCComands for Quantal dev
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales update IRCComands for Quantal dev
<Daviey> jamespage: i cna demote couch.
<jamespage> Daviey, please do then and close the bug report
<arosales> so we are keeping out of the red, but not in the green
<jamespage> hrm - this one http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> jamespage: yes, sorry
<Daviey> jamespage: yes sir!
<arosales> another one to udpate in the IRCCommands
<arosales> :-)
 * jamespage is feeling bossy today for some reason!
<arosales> to go over a few of the essential and highs that are in the red.
<arosales> jamespage: no thank you !
<arosales> openstack ha
<arosales> @27% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-qa
<meetingology> arosales: Error: "27%" is not a valid command.
<Daviey> Yeah, that is totally invalid.
<arosales> milestone is beta1?
<arosales> zul more of beta2?
<arosales> beta1 is sept 6th
<zul> beta2
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> zul ok, thanks updated
<arosales> arm deployment @ 50% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-arm-deployment
<arosales> rbasak: ^
<arosales> rbasak: beta1 target
<rbasak> The remaining pieces are maas related. I'm not sure they're going to make beta1
<arosales> rbasak: any eta on arm support landing in MAAS?
<rbasak> Not yet
<arosales> ok, keep us up todate on that progress, and thanks for working in it.
<arosales> Daviey: folsom @36% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-folsom
<arosales> target beta1
<Daviey> yep!
<arosales> so good for beta1?
<Daviey> I suspect it needs refreshing
 * arosales trusts daviey :-)
<Daviey> arosales: we continually release state code, so we are rocking
<arosales> roger that
<arosales> Daviey:  same with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-stable
<arosales> no milestone on this one . . .
<Daviey> ok, will check through them shortly
<arosales> progress @ 24% on that one
<arosales> Daviey: thanks
<arosales> jamespage: I think we just need to update the bug process with the reports that are coming for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-iso-tests-review
<arosales> jamespage: sorry that was for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bug-triage-review
<jamespage> arosales, I'll be working on that BP this/next week
<arosales> test review is also in the queue for UTAH
<arosales> jamespage: thanks
<jamespage> arosales, yes - the gravity report is now looking pretty good - I need to catchup with Ursinha on the automated bug closure stuff
<arosales> maas next steps @ 53% https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-maas-next-steps
<Ursinha> :D
<arosales> roaksoax:  ^
 * roaksoax looks
<roaksoax> most likely to postpone a few items
<arosales> SpamapS: I think this one we need to sync up with the juju core team https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charms-release-policy
<roaksoax> the most important things are don't
<arosales> roaksoax: ok, please postpone where appropriate
<arosales> roaksoax: how do you feel about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-ha
<arosales> on target for beta1?
<roaksoax> arosales: debian maintainer was on hollidays so I was hoping he would reply this week, Otherwise we'll have to do something ourselves
<arosales> utlemming: /me guesses some of these will go to done this week https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-jenkins-cloud-builder
<roaksoax> (some stuff should hut OpenStack trunk), but if it doesn't we can ship it ourselves
<arosales> roaksoax: ok, I'll leave as beta1 and check again next week
<utlemming> arosales: as I type, I'm attempting to online it now
<arosales> utlemming:  thanks.
<arosales> m_3: still now love for unit testing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<arosales> at 10% :-(
<arosales> m_3, jimbaker: could we get that updated this week please
<m_3> arosales: will do
<arosales> m_3 it has a beta1 target, are you ok with that milestone?
<arosales> m_3: thanks or taking a look
<arosales> #topic 12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  12.04.1 Development (jamespage & smoser)
<jamespage> released - please remove from agenda
<smoser> shipped.
<arosales> :-)
 * arosales wonders if there will be a 12.04.2
<jamespage> thanks to everybody who fixed bugs that targetted 12.04.1 - v much appreciated
<arosales> but for now lets focus on qunatal
<arosales> jamespage: yes +1 to that
<arosales> 12.04.2 team that is (of course there will be a release :-)
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
 * jamespage hides
<arosales> CloudOpen is currently undeway https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/cloudopen
<SpamapS> err
<SpamapS> starts tonight
<arosales> SpamapS: ah ok
<arosales> SpamapS: you and adam_g are presenting there, correct?
<SpamapS> otherwise crap I'm missing it! :)
<SpamapS> Yes, I'll be speaking tomorrow, and Adam on Friday
<arosales> great, let us know if there is a recording
<arosales> jimbaker: your speaking at UCAR seminar this week too, correct?
<jimbaker> arosales, on thur afternoon
<jimbaker> 3p iirc
<arosales> great, let us know how it goes
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
 * arosales doesn't see hggdh online
<SpamapS> perhaps we should seek a different QA contact?
<SpamapS> hggdh hasn't joined us in a *long* time
<arosales> we did meet with the QA team, and we are going to do some investigation into UTAH
<SpamapS> and I feel like we have QA more integrated into our team
<arosales> #link http://utah.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html
<arosales> #action arosales to follow up with hggdh and QA team on Server IRC contact
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to follow up with hggdh and QA team on Server IRC contact
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<arosales> smb`: Hello, andy updates from the kernel side?
<arosales> smb`: please feel free to interrupt if you have an update later in the meeting
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Calxeda ECX-1000 was announced as part of the 12.04.1 release, although we've had it in precise-updates for a while now.
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<arosales> +1 on additional arm support in server :-)
 * arosales already bugged rbask on arm support in maas :-)
<arosales> next topic
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<SpamapS> Hey I had an idea..
<SpamapS> we should probably mention CFP's that are open in the events section
<m_3> SpamapS: yeah, that'd be useful
<arosales> #action arosales to update events to include CFP
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to update events to include CFP
<SpamapS> http://www.openstack.org/summit/san-diego-2012/call-for-speakers/
<m_3> along with the cfp deadlines please
<SpamapS> CFP for OpenStack summit/conf is Thursday
<SpamapS> err, deadline for ^^
<SpamapS> I'd suggest also that people add all open CFP's that are relevant to Ubuntu Server to the agenda while they're open
<arosales> SpamapS: nice suggestion. Folks please feel free to update the meeting wiki with any CFPs you know about or bring them up when the events section comes around.
<jimbaker> arosales, sounds good
<arosales> Any other topics?
<SpamapS> zul: did you ever know that you're my hero?
<SpamapS> OT?
<arosales> and on that note :-)
<zul> SpamapS:  hmmm/
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> next meeting = Tuesday 2012-09-04 at 1600 UTC
<arosales> Thanks all for joining the server irc meeting :-)
<arosales> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 28 16:52:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-28-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-28-16.03.html
<jamespage> thanks arosales!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 28 17:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<arges> o/
<henrix> o/
<herton> o/
<sconklin> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<jsalisbury> no update this week.
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-ubuntu-12.10-beta-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 3 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || desktop-q-clean-old-kernels     || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 4 work items ||
<ogasawara> || tgardner    || hardware-q-kernel-misc          || 1 work item  ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Beta-1 work items.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've recently uploaded the 3.5.0-13.13 Quantal kernel to the release
<ogasawara> pocket.  This upload most notably provides a rebase to the v3.5.3
<ogasawara> upstream stable release.  This was also uploaded to the q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> [1] PPA to help facilitate testing of the 12.10 kernel in 12.04.  We
<ogasawara> welcome anyone to please install, test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Note that we are 2 days away from Beta-1 Freeze and ~1 week away from
<ogasawara> Beta-1 intself.  I do not foresee any further uploads before Thursday,
<ogasawara> ie. Beta-1 Freeze.  If there are any critical fixes which need to land,
<ogasawara> we need to know now.  Any uploades after Beta-1 Freeze will require
<ogasawara> approval from the release team.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Aug 30 - Beta 1 Freeze (2 days)
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Sept 6 - Beta 1 (~1 week)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-08-28 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 88 CVEs on our radar, with two CVEs added and two CVEs retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (August 28):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Testing; 3 CVEs; (6 commits)
<henrix>  * Natty - Ready for -updates; 1 CVEs; (4 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Testing; 1 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (98 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Testing; 0 CVEs; 3 upstream stable release(s); (167 commits)
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix>  
<henrix> NOTE: next week is the week the last Natty kernel will be built.
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 28 17:05:50 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-28-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-28-17.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-29
<smartboyhw> Ubuntu QA Meeting starting in 15 minutes, this time it will sound like only a conversation between me and balloons, since phillw is not appearing.
<smartboyhw> balloons: You or me to be chair?
<smartboyhw> OK, balloons please start the meeting:)
<balloons> #startmeeting ubuntu QA community
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 29 14:01:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu QA community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> who's about
<balloons> ?
<sagaci_> o/ just observing
<smartboyhw> o/
<balloons> ok, I'm filling in for astraljava looks like.. If he appears, I'll turn the meeting back over to him :-)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu QA community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<smartboyhw> o/
<balloons> So on the ubuntu front a few things are happening. Beta 1 is  next week. This week we are chatting about the alternate cd's being dropped, and readying ourselves for next week. If the alt's do get dropped, we need to be prepared to migrate the testcases over for the desktop cd's
<balloons> yes smartboyhw ?
<smartboyhw> Er, the previous action items
<smartboyhw> balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
<smartboyhw> phillw balloons to continue to update Wiki
<smartboyhw> I think you didn't update the meeting time... Or am I wrong?
<smartboyhw> ..
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> smartboyhw, yes thank you..
<smartboyhw> ;)
<balloons> there is still an oustanding ticket to get the time fixed on qa.ubuntu.com; I cannot do it
<balloons> [ACTION] balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
<meetingology> ACTION: balloons to chase up the incorrect meeting time on qa.ubuntu.com
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons> phillw and myself have continued updating the wiki.. there are a few pages still needing to be linked into the main site.. namely the testcase admins pages
<smartboyhw> Thanks balloons...
<balloons> ok, moving on
<balloons> [Other topics] Anything else needing discussion?
<smartboyhw> I'm afraid not:)
<balloons> We're going to be quick today :-)
<balloons> As I announced last week the images have been quite erratic on being built. This is likely to continue this week
<smartboyhw> Sure, I didn't get my Ubuntu Studio image for a WEEK.:(
<balloons> smartboyhw, is there a new one yet this week?
<smartboyhw> No. It's still 20120821
<smartboyhw> upgrade cases are on 20120824
<smartboyhw> xubuntu alternate on 20120822
<smartboyhw> ..
<balloons> yikes.. Well, fingers crossed, we'll see some working images this week
<smartboyhw> :)
<balloons>  wonder if the gtk2-indicator issue is still plaguing these
<balloons> I haven't looked today
<balloons> ok, any other questions?
<smartboyhw> I don't know!
<balloons> if not, we'll finish this out
<smartboyhw> Finish meeting then...Is it the shortest one?
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 29 14:14:17 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-29-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-29-14.01.html
<balloons> smartboyhw, heh, yes by far :-)
<smartboyhw> Well, thanks balloons, but then...
<smartboyhw> This IS the shortest...:(
<balloons> its ok, quite a busy week
<smartboyhw> ...
<balloons> we could all use the time back
<smartboyhw> !
<MohamedAlaa98> =)
 * slangasek waves
 * xnox 0/
<jodh> o/
<smartboyhw> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<stokachu> \o\
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 29 15:01:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<barry> ./
<slangasek> #topic Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> will be a short one today; stgraber and infinity are at LinuxPlumbConFestSummitHat, cjwatson is off
<slangasek> ev, we're counting on you to make up the difference
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> jodh barry cjwatson bdmurray ev stokachu stgraber doko infinity slangasek xnox ogra
<ev> lol
<ogra_> \o/
<jodh> * misc: Off Monday (Bank Holiday).
<jodh> * boot/upstart:
<jodh>   - Stateful re-exec: Continued work to get post re-exec environment sane
<jodh>     (thanks to slangasek for his help).
<jodh> J
<ev> slangasek: public holiday - I'm going to disappoint today
 * ogra_ wins
<barry> short week.  more work on gwibber py3 port; joined by robru, so we're splitting up the remainining tasks, and i'm reviewing and merging his mps into my branch.  should have our first full integration tests this week, hopefully landing the py3 branch soon after.  gave a udw talk on python3.  gave same talk (expanded) to PES.  dmb meeting.  done.
<bdmurray> bug triage of package installation failures / distribution upgrades
<bdmurray> gathering of and research into BootDmesg from bug reports to determine number of people using mdadm
<bdmurray> wrote code to create duplicate signatures for existing bugs with a VarLogDistupgradeApttermlog.gz file
<bdmurray> investigation into DuplicateSignature not being created for all package installation failures
<bdmurray> apport upload to quantal with an improved duplicate signature creation
<bdmurray> investigation into dpkg already installed and configured issue
<bdmurray> research into apport reporting python dbus no reply reports and them appearing on errors.ubuntu.com
<bdmurray> upload to precise-proposed for bug 1042970
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042970 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "apport not blocking DBus no reply bug reports" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042970
<bdmurray> done
<slangasek> jodh: do you confirm the bug that my test case turned up?  any progress on fixing that?
<ev> - Short week; public holiday on Monday.
<ev> - Fix odd behavior around the most common problems form.
<ev> - Reworked most common problems table to actually show the most common 100
<ev>   problems, rather than any problems with an instance count greater than 20.
<jodh> slangasek: yes, thanks - been working on it all day.
<ev> - Investigated whether we were indeed handling etags correctly - we are.
<ev> - Worked with IS to diagnose problems with the retracers exiting multiple
<ev>   times a day. At least part of the problem is that the retracers were pointed
<ev>   at a single Cassandra node. I fixed that, but we're still seeing issues. It
<ev>   now looks like we may be inserting too much data in a single operation
<ev>   (hitting limits in Thrift). I need access to the Cassandra and retracer logs
<ev>   to find out for sure (see below).
<ev> - Speed ups to the most common problems API call in the hope that they
<ev>   remedy some of the problems we're seeing with timeouts loading the table.
<ev>   - Grab five rows at a time - this might be evil. Cassandra is very sensitive
<ev>     to multigets of rows.
<slangasek> jodh: ok
<ev> - Trying to fix canonical-memento to sync retracer logs with the correct
<ev>   permissions.
<ev> - Wrote a new State of the Ubuntu Error Tracker email. Sent to Matthew and
<ev>   Brian for review.
<ev> - Finished wiring up the 90 day unique user calculation. Created RT 55650 for
<ev>   it.
<ev> - Reviewed Dmitrijs' geonames branch, Brian's LiveCDBuild branch of whoopsie,
<ev>   and mvo's apport recoverable problem using branch of software-center.
<ev> - Fixed a bug that was preventing us from correctly bucketing crashes that had
<ev>   a package without a version specified in the report.
<ev> - Added getting the problem instances for a user and individual instances to
<ev>   the errors.ubuntu.com API.
<ev> - Other things I'm probably forgetting. See the State of the Ubuntu Error Tracker email when it comes out for more detail.
<ev> (done)
<ogra_> wow
<ogra_> that was short !
<ev> see!
<stokachu> - Not to nag but waiting on multiarch SRU's to be reviewed :)
<stokachu> - @bdmurry - I was told to mention http://pad.lv/941673 because of
<stokachu>   some 'vandalism' where someone set the case to fix released with
<stokachu>   no fix..so not sure.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 941673 in accountsservice (Ubuntu Precise) "performance of accounts-daemon is very poor" [High,Triaged]
<stokachu> - Begin investigating customer supported cases that need to be addressed
<stokachu>   for milestone 12.04.02
<stokachu> - Monitor +1 FTBS for any main packages and other archives when time permits
<stokachu> (Done)
<bdmurray> stokachu: probably just an innocent mistake
<barry> stokachu: every month or so, we get a guy who vandalizes a handful of mailman bug tasks by doing assignments and status changes.  he has a slightly different id but same name every time, and we get the lpadmins to ban him every time.  it's highly annoying, and even though i've reached out to him numerous times, he still comes back and does it again.   i really don't know why :/
<stokachu> oh ok, what was weird is i couldnt set the status back to what it was
<stokachu> probably permissions
<ogra_> doko_, ?
<slangasek> doko_: your turn
<stokachu> slangasek: ive asked in -devel for the patch pilots to review those multi-arch but having no luck
<stokachu> i know youre busy
<xnox> bdmurray: the annoying bit with status changes, is that you can't see them in the lp.net at all: it's doesn't show up in related/commented/* bugs. Such that a vandal account can have prestine personal bugs views, yet changing statuses everywhere.
<doko_> - python2.7, python3.2, python3.3 updates
<doko_> - address all open multiarch issues for python3.3
<doko_> - finally found the "no stdout for sharedmods build" in python
<doko_> - python3-stdlib-extensions update, distribute update
<doko_> - gdb update to 7.5
<slangasek> stokachu: well, I was patch pilot this week and didn't get to them :P  so I'm going to make up the time
<stokachu> lol ok
<doko_> (done)
<slangasek> stokachu: no need to make excuses for me being busy, we're all busy ;)
<bdmurray> xnox: they can't hide from the mailing lists
<stokachu> sounds good man
<xnox> bdmurray: which one? I want to grep for someone.
<barry> doko_: wow!  what was the problem w/stdout?
<bdmurray> xnox: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
<slangasek> doko_, barry: that reminds me, a friend reported an amusing mis-feature in python2.7 regarding stdout encoding... the whole bit where the locale encoding is only used when stdout is a terminal?  Apparently doesn't apply in python2.7 if you're from __future__ import print_function :D
<xnox> bdmurray: ok. thanks.
<slangasek>  * fully back on my feet now following surgery, boots no longer getting in my way
<slangasek>  * helping jodh with upstart stateful reexec
<slangasek>  * patch pilot day
<slangasek>  * 12.04.1 in the bag
<barry> wow
<slangasek>  * discussions around choice of secureboot bootloader for 12.10
<slangasek>  * proposal to drop alternate CDs for 12.10 - thanks all for the participation in the list discussion
<slangasek>  * todo this week:
<slangasek>   * work with ogra on a Google OnAir session on how to use your Panda board
<slangasek>   * XDG_RUNTIME_DIR spec to be done this week
<slangasek>   * continued work on upstart re-exec support
<slangasek>   * multiarch SRU reviews!
<slangasek> (done)
<stokachu> :D
<slangasek> ogra_: your go
<ogra_> cograts to your boot-fixes :)
<xnox> ?
<ogra_> xnox, he doesnt like you anymore
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> xnox, go :)
<slangasek> oh oops
<slangasek> xnox: your turn :P
<xnox> * Fixed geoname lookup code (Now only 4 New York's instead of 20),
<xnox> which is now awaiting deployment by IS. See RT #55554.
<xnox> * Sponsored a fix for quantal update-notifier (crashed upgrades to
<xnox> quantal & quantal daily cds) http://pad.lv/1040380
<xnox> * Filed feature freeze exceptions for landing ubiquity lvm/luks work
<xnox> #1042649, #1042647, #1042642, #1042639. Two of which will be landing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1040380 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "package-data-downloader crashed with AttributeError in process_download_requests(): 'Deb822' object has no attribute 'has_key'" [Medium,Fix released]
<xnox> today / tomorrow (manual partitioning layout change & lvm checkbox,
<xnox> including all translations for manual LVM & crypto). Watch the updates
<xnox> on those tickets. This has been discussed with Kate Steward and
<xnox> mentioned in the release meeting on Friday. Currently fighting with
<xnox> debconf translation system.
<xnox> * Started the wiki page of what testcases should be created for
<xnox> LVM/LUKS ubiquity features: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/LVMLUKSTesting
<xnox> * BTW. llvmpipe actually works nice in VMs now. (I give two CPUs and
<xnox> 2048MB RAM to the VM)
<xnox> * Boost1.46 finally removed from the archive after the last round of
<xnox> fixing reverse build-deps on versioned -dev packages.
<xnox> * Follow up on removing alternative CDs: threads & posts.
<xnox> * Merge & Deploy updated ubiquity slideshow support for the "new" &
<xnox> "improved" slideshows which now support localised screenshots via
<xnox> ubuntu-defaults (as part of patch piloting at the same time).
<xnox> * Booking travel for UDS-R. Monday was a Late Summer Bank Holiday, so
<xnox> short week.
<xnox> * Ported debtagshw to python3 on the weekend, need to submit that
<xnox> patch for review.
<xnox> -done-
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * made omap4 PVR work (we now have a working GLES driver in quantal for panda)
<ogra_> * included pvr-omap4 as default in the panda images (GLES works OOTB with tomorrows images)
<ogra_> * compiz GLES testbuilds (still ongoing, should land today though)
<ogra_> * some fixes for the virtual bamboo-feeder
<ogra_> * held an UDW talk about arm
<ogra_> * fixing build issues with livecd-rootfs that had grown a feature to automatically build foreign arches in a qemu vm ...
<ogra_>   (our buildds being armel then forced the panda livefs build to try to use qemu for armhf images)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * bug 1028905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028905 in cdrom-detect (Ubuntu Quantal) "cdrom-detect in quantal omap4 hangs trying to look for install media on an extended partition" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028905
<ogra_> * make a decision if we want to show the source device in the partitioner on pandas (bug 1042930)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042930 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "partition size error during install of Quantal on Panda board" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042930
<ogra_> * prepare for beta
<ogra_> ... my BT still doesnt work if i use the kbd and the headset in full duplex mode ...
<ogra_> (half duplex works just fine)
<ogra_> ..
<slangasek> xnox: fyi I poked IS about RT #55554 on our sync call, so it's gotten into the right queue now and should happen soon-ish
<xnox> slangasek: \0/ yeah I did see it bouncing about
<xnox> ogra_: panda boards & wifi? still.... it was meant to work with -proposed kernel, but now there are multiple bugs about it (both from server (me) and desktop images)
<ogra_> xnox, rtg just fixed linux-firmware
<xnox> ogra_: ah, perfect =) will test.
<ogra_> quantal should be fine, if you see anyprecise bugs for wlan, please notify me
<xnox> ok.
<xnox> precise is fine so far with wlan and everything else =)
<ogra_> seems the kernel didnt declare an explicit need for the fw file
<ogra_> so the scripts didnt pull it in
<ogra_> ..
<slangasek> #topic Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: termites?  cockroaches?
 * xnox has metro bugs
<bdmurray> I don't have much other than bug 523896 which I found a few more duplicates of
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896
<slangasek> yeah... that's a JFDI at this point
<slangasek> solution in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shadow/+bug/523896/comments/20
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> any takers for implementing it?
<xnox> upstart job to delete those?
<xnox> @boot
<meetingology> xnox: Error: "boot" is not a valid command.
<xnox> i could do it.
<xnox> is there a real fix for this though? or are we just going to keep that forever
<slangasek> it's just a small upstart job to rm -f /etc/gshadow.lock /etc/shadow.lock /etc/passwd.lock /etc/group.lock when the rootfs is mounted
<slangasek> xnox: can you squeeze that in?
<xnox> yeah. should be ok.
<slangasek> xnox: no, that's the correct fix - whatever's causing it should *also* be more graceful, but there's always the possibility of a power event causing these to be left behind, so the system needs to be robustified
<slangasek> assigning to you, thanks
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<xnox> bug 1042159 and bug 1043149 Microsoft is offering Windows 8 Preview Release for free. One new feature is that it hibernates when user shutdowns. This breaks wubi & ntfs-3g
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042159 in Wubi "[regression since 12.04] wubi won't boot when Windows8 is hibernated (default)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042159
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043149 in ntfs-3g (Ubuntu) "[regression since 12.04] ntfs-3g refuses to mount Windows8 not using hibernation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043149
<bdmurray> slangasek: no that's it for today
<xnox> the feature is that by default on shut-down windows8 hibernates kernel & restores that on boot.
 * xnox doesn't want to look at this =)
<ogra_> lovely
<xnox> all IT media are crazy about "Windows 8 boots too fast".... well it hibernates fast....
<ogra_> yeah
<slangasek> xnox: does wubi or ntfs-3g misbehave (corrupt data) when this happens?
<xnox> slangasek: that is something to test. If we can force them & see if Windows still boots after (i) wubi usage or (ii) ntfs-3g read or (iii) write usage.
<xnox> anyone wants to install Windows8 PR?
<xnox> and dual boot ubuntu?
<xnox> this can wait for an SRU, since windows8 will be released after quantal.
<slangasek> well, wubi itself is difficult to SRU
<xnox> true.
<slangasek> the comments in #1043149 are interesting; suggests that this is a problem even when you try to explicitly avoid the hibernate option?
<slangasek> seems that this is very risky to correct for from the Ubuntu side and we may have to simply document a workaround that users will need to apply under Windows 8
<xnox> slangasek: yes. In Window8 hibernate = full hibernate; shutdown = hibernate kernel & shutdown the rest.
 * slangasek opens a release notes task for now
<xnox> ok. "Please disable _all_ of hibernations if you want to use wubi or access files from ubuntu"
<slangasek> yeah
<slangasek> ok, marked the bug up
<slangasek> stokachu: anything from your end?  besides the usual suspects :)
<stokachu> slangasek: i think we'rd good right now
<slangasek> ok cool
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Blueprints
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprints
<slangasek> in general we seem to be having a hard time this cycle getting blueprints down to the trend line
<slangasek> I'm not sure exactly why that is
<slangasek> but I'm going to propose a new policy to try to help those along
<slangasek> starting next week, please include for your lightning round reports a summary of the status of each blueprint that you have outstanding work items for
 * ogra_ thinks we have a lot idling specs that we probalbly should just postpone
<slangasek> probably
<slangasek> so the above is intended as a nudge to remind folks to do the actual postponement if appropriate rather than letting them linger
<slangasek> ok?
<xnox> ok.
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<ogra_> o/
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> we've got some time to fill ;)
<slangasek> ogra_: go
<ogra_> its my moms b-day this friday and i would like to end my friday early to visit my parents +
<ogra_> that means i need someone to replace me in the release meeting
<ogra_> anyone volunteering ?
<stokachu> CaKE
<slangasek> ogra_: I can cover.  will you send the summary to the list as usual?
<ogra_> ++
<ogra_> slangasek, yeah, only the meeting itself
 * ogra_ will have a cacke for each of you :)
<slangasek> ;)
<ogra_> *cake too :P
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Aug 29 15:45:35 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-29-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-29-15.01.html
<ogra_> thanks slangasek
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> enjoy your bonus 15 minutes :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-08-31
 * skaet waves
<popey> o/
<brendand> o/
<scott-work> O/
<skaet> :)
<smartboyhw> o/
<seb128> hey
<gilir> o/
<arosales> hello
 * Riddell not really here, ill in bed
 * stgraber waves
 * stgraber hopes the wifi will be kind of stable for the next hour...
 * highvoltage *bzzzt*
<skaet> hello all.  :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 31 15:00:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<skaet> Weekly Release Agenda (and minute location):
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-08-31
<skaet> .
<skaet> Upcoming dates:
<skaet> 12.10
<skaet>     2012/09/06: 12.10 Beta 1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Work Items:
<skaet> 2012/08/31 -  3025 (was 3011  (last  week):   We are behind the trendline for some of the projects.
<skaet> Weâve now gone into Feature Freeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated.  If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
<skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs:
<skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<skaet> .
<skaet> Weekly status:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001836.html - desktop - seb128
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001837.html - server - arosales
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001839.html - edubuntu - stgraber
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001840.html - kernel - ogasawara
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001841.html - security - jdstrand
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001843.html - linaro - fabo
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001846.html - xubuntu - knome
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001849.html - foundations - ogra_ / slangasek
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001850.html - Ubuntu Studio - ScottL
 * slangasek waves
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001854.html - Unity - popey
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001858.html - Lubuntu - gilir
<skaet> ?? - community - balloons
<skaet> #topic Comments and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Comments and Questions
<skaet> Iâm on a rather problematic network right now, so if I drop off during the meeting,  slangasek has kindly agreed to take over the hosting.  Iâll rejoin as soon as I can.
<skaet> any one have some questions ('o/') ready to start asking?
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001859.html - community - balloons
<skaet> thanks popey  :)
<seb128> o/ (not question but I want to do a status update from desktop at some point, I guess that's on list of topic for some others as well though)
<skaet> seb128,  go ahead I've got some specific questions, but lets see if your update addresses them ;)
<gema> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001831.html - QA - gema
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so we are verrrrrry late for unity (sorry again)
<seb128> but we just got the stack fully acked as approved and flagged green for release
<seb128> that includes compiz,nux,bamf,unity
<seb128> with compiz GLES (give us arm desktop back on the panda) and unity coverflow,preview,webapp
<seb128> so we would like to get the green line to land that today
<seb128> some of us will be watching for any potential issue tonight and tomorrow
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's the main topic
<seb128> otherwise we would still like to land
<seb128> - a libreoffice update to fix appmenu using 100% unity cpu madness (ready in the next hour for upload)
<seb128> - a small bug fix version for indicator-messages
<seb128>  
<seb128> and I think that's it for desktop
<seb128> ..
<brendand> skaet, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001830.html - hardware certification - brendand
<stgraber> as I said yesterday in #ubuntu-release, I'm personally ok (though far from happy) to have it land by EOD today (for unity/compiz/...). That's as long as we have someone from the unity team and desktop team around to fix/revert anything that breaks over the weekend
<skaet> thanks seb128
<skaet> sorry brendand, gema - my cut paste had error in it, meant to paste your report links.
<gema> skaet: no prob
<skaet> (and thanks for pasting them)
<brendand> skaet, np
<seb128> stgraber, status is that we have things ready now so that will make end of day target, and we have people from #ps and desktop who agreed to watch out
<skaet> seb128, popey - will this next drop address: There are 2 bugs that IMO are important and haven't seen on other reports:
<skaet> * Bug:1042211 - [quantal] [regression] [i915] Corrupted display, desktop
<skaet> and menus don't repaint correctly using Mesa 9.0 (8.0.4 works)
<skaet> * Bug:1005677 - Re-emergence of "Gtk-CRITICAL **:
<skaet> IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)'"
<popey> bug
<popey> bug 1042211
<seb128> skaet, no
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1042211 in mesa (Ubuntu) "[quantal] [regression] [i915] Corrupted display, desktop and menus don't repaint correctly using Mesa 9.0 (8.0.4 works)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1042211
<seb128> first one is mesa
<popey> bug 1005677
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1005677 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Quantal) "Re-emergence of "Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)'"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005677
<seb128> tjaalton, ^ do you know what's the status for that and beta1?
<gema> skaet and also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1044299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044299 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubi-partman crashed, and then no installation process, no installation options" [Critical,Confirmed]
<popey> (for the lazy)
<seb128>  
<seb128> the second one is overlay-scrollbar and qt
<seb128> need to chase Cimi on that again
<seb128> but it's out of the unity stack for both
<stgraber> seb128: good. I guess the unity stack needs to go through -proposed to avoid skews? if so, please poke me once it's there so I can make sure it builds ASAP. Would be a pain to get stuck waiting for powerpc/arm.
<skaet> seb128,  understood - we'll need to make sure that they're both well documented in the technical overview notes then.
<seb128> stgraber, yes, through proposed
<seb128> skaet, I'm chasing people, will get you a status update before eod and try to see if we can still fix today
<skaet> Thanks seb128
<skaet> please nick highlight to Laney, stgraber, cjwatson and myself in #ubuntu-release
<seb128> ok
<skaet> we'll start of the release tracking pad, and the technical overview for beta1 later today.
<skaet> I'll post in #ubuntu-release when they're ready for input.
<skaet> seb128,  did you see comments on llvmpipe in edubuntuâs report on implications of llvmpipe on LSTP,  any chance we can get it landing for beta1?
<seb128> let me look
<ScottK> o/
<seb128> I saw that jdstrand and others said that the recent updates make things usuable on vms
<seb128> ok, read that
<seb128> yeah, there is  plan to degrade effects to improve performance
<seb128> is there a bug open about the "doesn't work on 16 bits"?
<skaet> stgraber, ^ ?
<stgraber> I didn't file one, I'll check if there's one and if not, I'll file one
<seb128> I will make sure those are tracked, but that will not be for beta1 at this point
<seb128> stgraber, thanks
<stgraber> seb128: either way, I'll give you the bug number
<seb128> re "so something needs to happen there..." ... well many topic are in that situation
<skaet> thanks stgraber, seb128
<skaet> ..
<seb128> we will need to make (hard) calls
<seb128> and those calls might be to tell those people to use the LTS
<seb128> ..
<skaet> seb128, ack.
<skaet> slangasek, did you have any update on the bug that gema highlighted earlier?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1044299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1044299 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubi-partman crashed, and then no installation process, no installation options" [Critical,Confirmed]
<slangasek> skaet: no, haven't seen this bug until now
<slangasek> it doesn't appear that anyone has set the 'rls-q-incoming' tag on it, btw
<gema> slangasek: I will update it
<slangasek> well, no need now... I'll just move it straight to our 'accepted' queue ;)
<gema> slangasek: ack, sorry
<slangasek> anyway, I'll make sure xnox is working on it
<slangasek> has anyone else reproduced this bug?
<gema> jibel reported it to me, I will ask him
<slangasek> (I'm wondering whether it's genuinely critical, or if it's a corner case)
<skaet> yeah,  just a reminder to everyone - please put 'rls-q-incoming' tag on any bug you think is going to be a  problem for the release.
<jibel> slangasek, I did, install a desktop image and keep the defaults, it crashes on partman
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> then it's definitely xnox's ;)
<slangasek> we'll get it sorted
<gema> slangasek: thanks!
<skaet> thanks slangasek, gema, jibel.
<skaet> ..?
<gema> ..
<skaet> go ScottK
<ScottK> As Riddell  mentioned, he's sick, so no input email from Kubuntu this week.  KDE telepathy 0.5 landed kind of hard this week, but we should have it sorted and all images buildable later today.  KDE SC 4.9.1 is released next Wednesday, so we'll anticipate uploading that shortly after Beta 1.
<ScottK> ..
<xnox> slangasek: fix committed locally, now testing.
<skaet> ScottK,  thanks for the update
<slangasek> xnox: thanks :)
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks for any other hands before going on to other questions...
<skaet> gema,  any concerns about desktop arm testing for next week?
<gema> skaet: we haven't done any arm testing that I am aware of, hggdh will do on monday
<gema> skaet: ogra_ may have something to report, though
<skaet> gema, ok, so he and plars are contacts.
<seb128> (not that you could test arm, unity didn't land)
<gema> skaet: yes, and psivaa
<gema> skaet: we are going to have more people than ever before testing, please bear with us while we adjust
<skaet> seb128,  was assuming it was going to land today, and based on ogra_'s comments in his report.
<gema> skaet: I will be on holidays so if you need a point of contact use either psivaa or plars , given timezones
<seb128> skaet, yeah, that's the plan, I was replying to the "<gema> skaet: we haven't done any arm testing"
<seb128> skaet, monday sounds good
<gema> seb128: ack
<skaet> gema, seb128 thanks.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> slangasek, do you know if the Google OnAir session on how to use your panda board has been scheduled?
<slangasek> it has not
<skaet> any chance we can get it for early next week?
<seb128> o/
<slangasek> skaet: with ogra out today and me out for the US holiday on Monday, probably not
<slangasek> I'm looking at Thursday
<slangasek> (yeah, it's beta day... that means everything should be calm and people have time to watch videos, right? ;)
<skaet> heh,  I was thinking of getting more testers ramped up earlier actually ;)
<xnox> slangasek: dual screen: one for videos the other one for image testing ;-)
<slangasek> skaet: unlikely, sorry
 * skaet_ wonders if seb128 saw the go comment, and responded while she got disconnected.
<seb128> skaet_, no I didn't
<seb128> <slangasek> skaet: unlikely, sorry
<seb128>  skaet a quittÃ© (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<seb128>  
<seb128> that all I saw
<skaet_> thanks.
<seb128> I had quick q
<skaet_> go seb128
<seb128> slangasek, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, before beta1?
<slangasek> seb128: trying to get the uploads done today
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> slangasek, thanks
<seb128> ..
<slangasek> whether the release team want to accept it is another matter :)
<skaet_> :)
 * skaet_ figures its likely, but depends on what it actually end up being.
<skaet_> ..
<skaet_> ?
<skaet_> knome,   Ubuntu studio, Xubuntu, Lubuntu - waiting for indicator-application-gtk2 to be updated to fix build failures.  what is plan here,  will land before monday?  dependencies on other teams to make it?
<skaet_> or astraljava^ or ...?
<seb128> so about that it's part of those binaries that stopped being built from source by Ubuntu
<seb128> so it's one of those "need to bring back and old source as -gtk2 to universe"
<slangasek> why is that preferable over re-enabling the binary build in the existing source?  Is it because the code has been dropped?
<seb128> gtk2 support has been dropped
<slangasek> ok
<seb128> they said they would get ride of all their ton of ifdefs and legacy code after the LTS
<slangasek> so definitely needs to be a separate source package, which someone who needs it can resurrect from the archive without too much difficulty
<seb128> right
<seb128> just take the precise version, drop the gtk3 binary and put it under a different source name
<Laney> in the meantime all affected flavours have dropped it from their seeds
<seb128> the protocol didn't change
<seb128> ..
<slangasek> Laney: they've preferred this over picking up the old code branch?
<skaet_> knome, astraljava, scott-work, gilir ^ who is taking point on getting this done.  wasn't clear from status emails.
<gilir> indicator-applications is the easiest one, as it's not using any gtk3 specific code
<Laney> slangasek: no, it's just an interim solution
<slangasek> ok
<Laney> someone (sorry, I forgot who) told me they were working on bringing it back
<gilir> skaet_, xubuntu dev is working on indicator-application re-upload
<gilir> do we need FFe for this ?
<gilir> just to know what paperwork we need to bring this back
<slangasek> I wouldn't think so
<gilir> ..
<skaet_> gilir,  having a bug for tracking this though,  would be good.
<skaet_> (not a FFe, but rather making sure we all know who's working on it, etc.)
<skaet_> ..
 * skaet_ looks around to see if other questions?
<scott-work> none from me
<Daviey> can we go home?
<skaet_> yup.  :)
<skaet_> #endmeeting
<popey> \o/
<popey> thanks
<xnox> thanks all.
<balloons> lol
<Laney> THE BOT DISAGREES
<skaet_> Thanks popey, brendan, scott-work, smartboyhw, seb128, gilir, arosales, slangasek, gilir, Laney, xnox, jibel, gema, ScottK.
<scott-work> bye
<slangasek> thanks all
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Aug 31 15:47:51 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-31-15.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-08-31-15.00.html
<balloons> slangasek, did we decide for sure to drop the alt cd?
<arosales> Thanks skaet for chairing
<seb128> skaet, thanks
<skaet> balloons,  yes, per discussion in #ubuntu-release channel
<skaet> yesterday was asked about.
<balloons> I figured as much, I just hadn't seen a mailing announcing it as such
<skaet> slangasek,  can you send a clarifying email out to close off the thread?
<balloons> perfect, ty :-)
<slangasek> skaet: yeah, can do
<slangasek> balloons: btw, you said "negative feedback" - which are you referring to?
<skaet> thanks slanagasek
<balloons> slangasek, let's move to #ubuntu-release
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-26
 * barry waves
 * tumbleweed is here to chair a DMB meeting, if we do one
<tumbleweed> but it sounds like we have nothing to dicuss
<tumbleweed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<barry> i'm happy skipping it
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 26 16:32:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I have several pending updates I'm working on
<jdstrand> I plan to test/sponsor tyhicks' saucy uploads this week
<jdstrand> I have a couple of august work items to do
<jdstrand> and participate in vUDS
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is not here today. sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm again working on apparmor testing this week, looking at IPC issues
<sbeattie> I need to review work items, and make sure I don't have anything outstanding
<sbeattie> as well as attend vUDS.
<sbeattie> that's it for me, tyhicks?
<jdstrand> sbeattie: how is the IPC testing going?
<sbeattie> slow
<sbeattie> making progress but slow.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you have one work item for august that I left for you. please focus on IPC
<sbeattie> jdstrand: okay, will do
<tyhicks> sbeattie: are you writing tests? if so, do you plan on incorporating the simplified socketpair() testcase that I wrote last week?
<tyhicks> (or should I do that?)
<jdstrand> sbeattie: it is the device-specific accesses. I may try to do soemthing with that, but will likely want to discuss it with you
<sbeattie> tyhicks: yeah, I can take that.
<jdstrand> might just postpone the work item. we'll see
<jdstrand> tyhicks: please proceed
<jdstrand> (with your status update)
<tyhicks> I'll be handing jdstrand a couple debdiffs and test results for saucy uploads this morning
<jdstrand> \o/
<tyhicks> there's still one known bug in dbus, around how we're handling eavesdropping, I'll be working on fixing this this week
<tyhicks> then I'll probably take a look at the 'update apparmor_parser to add v3 open rules to v2 policy' work item
<tyhicks> I also need to spend a little time getting ecryptfs ready for the next merge window
<jdstrand> tyhicks: so, you addressed the dbus rules in abstractions issue with the tools?
<tyhicks> and I need to test jj's fix for a socketpair() labeling bug that I came across last week
<tyhicks> jdstrand: yes - I need to send that patch out to the list
<tyhicks> jdstrand: apparmor - 2.8.0-0ubuntu24+dbusdev4 contains the fix
<jdstrand> tyhicks: iirc, there were some test-dbus.py failures. is that the socketpair() issue?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: that was one issue
<jdstrand> ok, let's back up
<tyhicks> ok
<jdstrand> tyhicks: you are going to give me pacakges to upload. it sounds like there are bugs that are known to exist. what are they?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: the known bug remaining is around eavesdropping
<tyhicks> jdstrand: when we grant permissions in policy, we imply some permissions
<tyhicks> jdstrand: so when you have permission to send a message, you implicitly have permissions to receive a method_return or error message from the peer that you can send a message to
<tyhicks> jdstrand: our short-circuit code in dbus to allow the method_return or error messages to slip through is too loose
<jdstrand> I see
<tyhicks> jdstrand: it also allows eavesdroppers to see those messages
<jdstrand> so no problem uploading to saucy. we'll just fix that in the next upload
<tyhicks> exactly
<tyhicks> the only time that someone would see it is if they used dbus-monitor
<tyhicks> it is a very important bug to fix, but it doesn't affect day to day use
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> tyhicks: ok, I'm done. please proceed :)
<tyhicks> I think that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm working on apparmor this week, specifically the ipc work items
<jdstrand> tyhicks: btw, after we upload to saucy, can you file a bug on the eavesdropping issue?
<tyhicks> jdstrand: yes
<jdstrand> jjohansen: sorry for interrupting
<jjohansen> jdstrand: heh thats fine
 * jjohansen will coordinate with tyhicks and sbeattie to get more testing of a couple of fixes I pushed out last week
<jjohansen> I'll dump a bunch of kernel and parser patches for sarnold to review
<jjohansen> hrmmm, I have some compatibility patches to update for 3.10, and 3.11 but some how I don't think I will get to that this week
<jjohansen> to preempt jdstrand's question on how ipc is going, its slow once I get a major crash bug fixed we should be able to start playing with several parts of it this week
<jdstrand> well, I wasn't going to ask this week-- you only worked last friday :)
<jjohansen> that is other people can start playing with
<jdstrand> jjohansen: but thanks! that sounds agreat :)
<jjohansen> oh? I did?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: ok, I was only aware that you worked one day last week
<jdstrand> jjohansen is a sneaky one
<jjohansen> vacation was last week? sigh that is so depressing
<sarnold> take two they're small
<jjohansen> alright so it feels like Its been a few weeks since vacation, anyways thats it for me sarnold your up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'm also on MIR duty this week, I'm the blocker for six or seven audits.
<sarnold> and I've got an apparmor parser patch to prepare for SRU for precise, the features buffer size problem -- and I'm curious if I should prepare packages for all releases or just precise, which is the current problem for kernel team preparing saucy-on-precise LTS kernels..
<jjohansen> sarnold: precise is the important one
<sarnold> jjohansen: okay, sounds good to me :)
<sarnold> will any saucy-kernel installed on precise poke the problem?
<jjohansen> sarnold: if you find yourself without something to do poking the other releases would be nice
<jjohansen> sarnold: yes it will
<sarnold> jjohansen: oh I don't think I'll be in that position this week, feature freeze is soon and I owe a lot of people ACKs or NACKs on MIRs..
<sarnold> jjohansen: cool. thanks :)
<jjohansen> err, that is any saucy kernel after the alpha4 apparmor sync, so all future saucy kernels
<sarnold> jjohansen: would e.g.  3.11.0-3.8 do the job?
<jjohansen> sarnold: yes that kernel will cause things to fail nicely
<sarnold> jjohansen: woot! \o/
<sarnold> okay, I think that's me finished, and chrisccoulson has time'd out, so jdstrand, back to you
<jdstrand> thanks, sorry, got pulled aside
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> normally at this point I would provide a list of packages, but python-apt broke UCT so I don't have them atm.
<jdstrand> I will update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/HighlightedPackages once I fix that
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 26 17:24:46 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-26-16.32.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-08-26-16.32.html
<tyhicks> thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand! :)
<sbeattie> thanks, jdstrand
<soren> o/
 * soren checks calendar
<soren> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda is fairly out-of-date (very likely my fault), but today should be a meeting day.
<stgraber> soren: 2013-08-05 + 2 weeks == 2013-08-19 (last week) + 2 weeks == 2013-09-02 (next week)
<soren> stgraber: Your arithmetic is impeccable.
<soren> stgraber: Unlike mine.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-08-27
<arosales> If folks are here for the Ubuntu Server meeting it is being canceled this week in lieu of vUDS 11308
<arosales> Please join us in some sessions today: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1308/2013-08-27/
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-25
<caribou> bdrung_work: FYI Laney had asked to postpone the meeting by one hour
<caribou> but even with that, looks like there will not be enough people available today for the meeting
<bdrung_work> moving the meeting by one hour would be okay for me.
<caribou> bdrung_work: Laney just left for breakfast. He should be back right after (he's in Portland)
<caribou> bdrung_work: he told me that stgraber & Scott would not be able to make it today
<bdmurray> I believe xnox is in Portland too, so may also not be able to make it.
<bdrung_work> where is micahg_?
<caribou> bdmurray: I thing he was ok with the 1 hour delay as well, let see what Laney knows
 * xnox o/
<xnox> the queue for breakfast is really long =)
<caribou> btw, Laney has changed the agenda thinking that the meeting would not happen. I'm still available for today if possible
<xnox> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung_work> o/
<xnox> we need 4 - we have 3 so far, with laney we'd have 4 right now.
 * xnox goes to hunt for Laney
<micahg-work> Do we need a meeting?  is there anything on the agenda?
<caribou> micahg-work: I'm here for PPU application
<micahg-work> ah, the agenda said sept 8 when I looked :)
<micahg-work> hi caribou
<caribou> micahg-work: Laney changed it because he thought nobody would show up
<caribou> micahg-work: I just reverted it back
<caribou> micahg-work: hello btw
<xnox> so, Laney doesn't have irc client handy
<xnox> bdrung_work: micahg-work: shall we do meeting now with three or post-pone to later in the day given that we all should still be available (including applicant)
<caribou> Laney's initial proposal was to postpone the meeting by one hour. I'm fine with it or even later if needed
<micahg-work> I can wait an hour
<bdrung_work> i could wait until 16:00
<micahg-work> oh, hrm, I have a meeting until until 16:15, I can do it after that
<bdrung_work> i will have to leave around 16:45 (latest 17:00) and will be online again around 19:30
<Mirv> I'd be here too, although as noted I only added my MOTU application today so probably too early and the meeting on Sep 22 is better that way
<caribou> so what is your decision ?
<xnox> micahg-work: bdrung_work: caribou: let's meet later today. How later, I'm not sure. monitor pings =)
<micahg-work> I"m mostly free until 18:00
<bdrung_work> as i wrote, i am free until around 16:45 (and then after 19:30)
<caribou> I don't see much overlap in all of these timings
<caribou> maybe better if I postpone my application until Sept 8th 1900
<jdstrand> hi!
<tyhicks> hello
<chrisccoulson> hi
<jjohansen> \o
 * sbeattie wavews
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 25 16:45:23 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
<jdstrand> I've got an openjdk-7 regression sponsored update today
<jdstrand> then it is doing whatever I can to help with the apparmor landing
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on apparmor this week.
<sbeattie> I'm also doing whatever I can to get apparmor to land; currently that means I'm digging in to why networking permissions are not working correctly
<sbeattie> after that, I'll be looking at the python utils to make them not throw a fit over the af_unix rules.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: that dhclient one I mentioned?
<sbeattie> yeah
<sbeattie> I think it's also the source of some of the qrt networking failures.
<jjohansen> yep
<sbeattie> beyond that, it's testing and stepping wherever needed.
<sbeattie> that's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm helping to land apparmor, as well
<tyhicks> I'm currently updating the regression test suite to test the new functionality
<tyhicks> then I'll sync up w/ jj to figure out what to do nex
<tyhicks> t
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm working on apparmor as well, there are still several kernel bugs to be fixed, and of course a few outstanding userspace issues as well
<jjohansen> off the top of my head
<jjohansen> - the tools, and log parsing haven't even been touched yet
<sbeattie> jjohansen: yeah, log parsing is on my list.
<jjohansen> I am off tuesday and wednesday this, I will actually be around for some of them but I am not sure of the schedule yet
<jjohansen> oh and I am off next monday, but I expect most people are
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me
<jjohansen> sarnold: you
<jjohansen> sarnold: you are up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'll be reviewing some apparmor patches, doing some security updates, hopefully saying 'hello' to some of the debian apparmor users who are in town for debconf
<sarnold> if there's much time left over, it'd be nice to finish up a MIR that's been in progress for a while
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> It's a public holiday here today, although I've been working because the weather is absolutely awful. This week, I'm finishing off the SSL status API for oxide - I pushed some bits to here last week: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/ssl-status-api
<chrisccoulson> I'm still working on the notification part of the API (which will give embedders the option to override SSL errors or display blocked content)
<chrisccoulson> I've also got some tests to write
<chrisccoulson> I'm expecting a new chromium release as well (which means a new oxide release too)
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<jdstrand> jeez, we just had one :)
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/s3d.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/virtualbox-guest-additions-iso.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/snort.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gcc-4.7-armel-cross.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mpack.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #ndmeeting
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 25 17:07:45 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-25-16.45.moin.txt
<tyhicks> thanks!
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-26
<smoser> o/
<smoser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<gnuoy> \o
<gaughen> 0/
<gnuoy> I believe I'm in the hot seat this week
<beisner> o/
<gnuoy> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 26 16:00:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is gnuoy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<matsubara> o/
<gnuoy> Welcome all to the Ubuntu Server Team Meeting. Please shout if I stray from the correct path as this is my first time chairing one of these.
<gnuoy> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gaughen> gnuoy, just so you know, matsubara holds the world record for fastest mtg.
<gnuoy> smoser to review coreycb mp for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openstack-trove/+bug/1347567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347567 in openstack-trove (Ubuntu Utopic) "trove unit tests disabled" [High,In progress]
<gnuoy> Looks like zul reviewed
<coreycb> o/
<zul> indeed
<gnuoy> bug 1355891 (aka bug 1350522)  still needs looking at I think
<smoser> thank you zul
<ubottu> bug 1355891 in linux (Ubuntu) "crash on utopic ec2 instance" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1355891
<ubottu> bug 1350522 in linux (Ubuntu Utopic) "EC2 kernel crash due to vmalloc" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1350522
<gnuoy> smoser ^ ?
<smb> I should have marked that as duplicate
<smb> Pretty sure it is the same as bug 1350522
<ubottu> bug 1350522 in linux (Ubuntu Utopic) "EC2 kernel crash due to vmalloc" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1350522
<gnuoy> ok, I'll leave it with you
<gnuoy> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<gnuoy> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<gnuoy> Thursday was FeatureFreeze
<smb> smoser, btw, I got a work-around patch applied to utopic today. So at least pv guests should work until I figure out the real fix
<smoser> k.
<gnuoy> Anyone got anythin else to add with regard to the release schedule before we look at release bugs?
<gnuoy> #subtopic Release Bugs
<gnuoy> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<gnuoy> Looks like these are new:
<gnuoy> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1360471
<gnuoy> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1361357
<gnuoy> #link http://launchpad.net/bugs/1359421
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1360471 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Utopic) "update walinuxagent to 2.0.7" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1361357 in nova (Ubuntu Utopic) "metadata service performance regression ~100x" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1359421 in librtas (Ubuntu Utopic) "Update librtas for LE support" [Undecided,In progress]
<kickinz1> o/
<gnuoy> Hmm, I wonder if we lost some config on the way which has contributed to/caused 1361357
<gnuoy> s/some config/some network config on serverstack/
<smoser> gnuoy, after i went down a rathole... i suspected network.
<gnuoy> smoser, mtu settings had been tweaked and they didn't persist after a reboot
<gnuoy> other settings could have gone I guess
<smoser> i'd really hope that isnt it.
<smoser> we can talk more outside this meeting.
<gnuoy> ack
<smoser> and i will make sure to bother you
<gnuoy> thanks!
<gnuoy> 1360471 seems unloved. What do we normally do there?
<hallyn> bug 1360471
<ubottu> bug 1360471 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Utopic) "update walinuxagent to 2.0.7" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360471
 * gaughen opens bug
 * gaughen waits for system
<gaughen> smoser, would we need to get an FFE for this package?
<smoser> we would normally bother utlemming on that. and let him do what he needs to do.
<gaughen> this package = walinuxagent
<smoser> i'll bother him
<gaughen> gnuoy, put me down for bugging utlemming
<zul> yeah i have something to add
<gnuoy> #action gaughen bug utlemming about bug 1360471
<meetingology> ACTION: gaughen bug utlemming about bug 1360471
<ubottu> bug 1360471 in walinuxagent (Ubuntu Utopic) "update walinuxagent to 2.0.7" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1360471
<zul> gnuoy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1361737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1361737 in Ubuntu "[ffe] New dependency for openstack python-oslo.utils" [High,New]
 * utlemming shows up late
<gnuoy> zul, ok, looks like package update o'clock
<zul> gaughen:  also an archive admin havent reviewed python-lxc or openstack-granite either
<gnuoy> Is the normal form here to twiddle thumbs until someone leaps up and grabs the bug?
<gaughen> zul, do you have the bug #s for those handy? else I'll find them and go looking for an admin
<zul> gaughen:  nope it was done before the FF though
<gnuoy> #action gaughen find archive admin to  review  python-lxc and openstack-granite
<meetingology> ACTION: gaughen find archive admin to  review  python-lxc and openstack-granite
<gnuoy> I'm going to move onwards and upwards
<gnuoy> #subtopic Blueprints
<gnuoy> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<gnuoy> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<gaughen> I think blueprints need some love
<gaughen> although I do think smoser's are current
<gaughen> gnuoy, that's all I have to say. move along.
 * smoser looks
<gnuoy> will do
<gnuoy> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> gnuoy: everything is fine from my end, thanks
<gnuoy> caribou, ta
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> no update is from us this week :)
<gnuoy> psivaa, ta
<gnuoy> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> I am trying to not go completely bonkers while reading xen/x86 bootup code mangling pagetables around. Not sure how successful. :-P Is there anything else I/we should be aware or have a look at?
<kickinz1> what is the current status of virtio+bcache?
<arges> kickinz1: hey
<arges> kickinz1: i've found the patch that causes the regression. I also created a test patch that I'm asking for some review. I'll probably post that on the upstream ML soon
<kickinz1> arges: cool, thanks.
<gnuoy> smb, not that I know of, anyone else ?
<arges> kickinz1: are there any other kernel issues you've found in your bcache testing? If so please ping me
<gnuoy> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<kickinz1> arges: not for now (hung tasks messages + virtio), I'll ping you if some new.
<gnuoy> This one confuses me a little. What are we trying to achieve with this section? Is it making people aware of events they might like to attend?
<gnuoy> or "Please say this when you're there?"
<rharper> gnuoy: I always assumed it was to mention up coming events that the team was involved in ...
<gnuoy> to what end?
<rharper> other folks might be going to those as well and might meet up?
<gnuoy> kk
<rharper> gnuoy: dunno, I'm too noob here to know, smoser might
<gnuoy> I shall take silence to mean everyone is staying home
<gnuoy> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gnuoy> Anything anyone wants to openly discuss?
<gnuoy> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<gnuoy> next meeting will be : Tue Sept 2 16:00:00 UTC 2014
<smoser> i think gnuoy 's understanding of the intent of "upcoming events" was correct.
<smoser> basically discuss upcoming "cloud" like events.
<smoser> that you might want to attend.
<gnuoy> ack, thanks
<smoser> or that people are attending. or
<smoser> or someone might say "Oh, i can meet *the* rharper if I go to cloudwhizbangconf in WrigleyVille?  I'm so there!"
<gnuoy> I AM so there!
<gnuoy> (if he brings homebrew)
<gnuoy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 26 16:30:10 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-26-16.00.moin.txt
<kickinz1> thanks.
<matsubara> thanks gnuoy
<gnuoy> The pleasure was entirely mine
<rharper> gnuoy: indeed =)
<caribou> thanks gnuoy
<gaughen> thanks gnuoy!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 26 17:00:50 2014 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The Utopic kernel remains based on the v3.16.1 upstream stable kernel
<ogasawara> and is available for testing in the archive, ie. linux-3.16.0-11.16.
<ogasawara> Please test and let us know your results.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Aug 28 - Utopic Beta 1 (~2 days)
<ogasawara>   Mon Sep 22 - Utopic Final Beta Freeze (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Sep 25 - Utopic Final Beta (~4 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct  9 - Utopic Kernel Freeze (~6 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 16 - Utopic Final Freeze (~7 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 23 - Utopic 14.10 Release (~8 weeks away)
<ogasawara> ..
<chiluk> o/
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<arges> o/
<henrix> Status for the main kernels, until today (Aug. 19):
<henrix>   *   Lucid - verification & testing
<henrix>   * Precise - verification & testing
<henrix>   *  Trusty - verification & testing
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix>  
<henrix> Schedule:
<henrix>  
<henrix> cycle: 08-Aug through 29-Aug
<henrix> ====================================================================
<henrix>          08-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<henrix> 10-Aug - 16-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<henrix> 17-Aug - 23-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<henrix> 24-Aug - 29-Aug   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<henrix>  
<henrix>  
<henrix> cycle: 29-Aug through 20-Sep
<henrix> ====================================================================
<henrix>          29-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<henrix> 31-Sep - 06-Sep   Kernel prep week.
<henrix> 07-Sep - 13-Sep   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<henrix> 14-Sep - 20-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<henrix>  
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 26 17:08:01 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-26-17.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-27
<PotatoGim> Hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-08-28
<kouakou> hi
 * stgraber waves
<jodh> o/
<stgraber> so is it just caribou_, jodh and I today?
<caribou_> looks like it
<stgraber> ok, should be a quick meeting then :)
<stgraber> #startmeeting Foundations team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 28 15:01:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
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<stgraber> #topic Round table
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations team meeting | Current topic: Round table
<stgraber> since I'm ready anyway, I'll start
<stgraber> I was in Chicago last week (Tuesday to Saturday):
<stgraber>  - Presented user namespaces at the Linux Security Summit with hallyn
<stgraber>  - Gave a talk on running your own Internet at LinuxCon North America
<stgraber>  - Ran a container hackfest on the Friday
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Serge and I had a lot of good discussions with various kernel and userspace
<stgraber> developers around container security, userspace improvement and new use cases.
<stgraber> I also found the time to attend a few talks on other container projects (we had
<stgraber> a whole track dedicated to containers this time around) and some other topics I
<stgraber> had an interest into like btrfs.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> During some of the spare time and the hackfest, we mostly focused on:
<stgraber>  - Kernel and userspace fixes/workarounds for a recent regression introduced by
<stgraber>    the latest kernel security update (breaking nested unprivileged containers).
<stgraber>  - Some cgmanager debugging for random crashes and for a race on the phone.
<stgraber>  - Discussed the new LXC command line tool and worked on it a bit.
<stgraber>  - Started working on lxcfs, a fuse filesystem that exposes cpuinf, meminfo and
<stgraber>    stat with the values coming from the cgroup limits.
<stgraber>  - Started looking at cgmanagerfs, a fuse filesystem simulating the cgroup
<stgraber>    hierarchy based on what cgmanager tells it, allowing for safe unprivileged
<stgraber>    cgroup operations.
<stgraber>  - Unprivileged fuse mounts, Seth has been reworking his patchset.
<stgraber>  - Went through a bunch of upstream bug reports and fixed a bunch.
<stgraber>  - Discussed using seccomp as a way to catch mount() and do userspace handling
<stgraber>    of it (so we can do policy checks in userspace and fake mounts).
<stgraber>  - Granite (LXC for OpenStack) work, including a bunch of upstream changes to
<stgraber>    support unprivileged containers joining an openvswtich bridge.
<stgraber>  - Checkpoint and restart with CRIU, went through the patchset from tych0 a few
<stgraber>    times and eventually merged it upstream!
<stgraber>  - Had some chats with the Akamai, Heroku, Parallels, Docker.io and Google
<stgraber>    folks in attendance.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> We had about 20 people attending the hackfest, a bunch from Canonical (Serge,
<stgraber> Seth, Chuck, Tycho and myself), one from Akamai (our lxc-go maintainer), one
<stgraber> from Heroku, a bunch from Google (3-4), a bunch from Docker (3-4), a couple
<stgraber> from Parallels and a few other just dropping in here and there.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> After getting back, I've been doing:
<stgraber>  - Some more LXC cleanups, merges, reviews, ...
<stgraber>  - Setup system-image for Ubuntu RTM
<stgraber>  - Running 14.10 beta-1
<stgraber>  - Prepared and attended a whole bunch of LXC/container related meetings
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> Please note that I won't be around on Monday as it's labour day in the US and
<stgraber> Canada and I'll also be without Internet since I'm doing a partial move (work
<stgraber> equipment only) this weekend. I'll be working from my new place starting on
<stgraber> Tuesday and then moving over there for good the Saturday after that.
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stgraber> then let's make it jodh and caribou
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Short week - only 2 days due to bank holiday and time off! :-)
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Continuing to investigate bug 1357252 which seems to be the result
<ubottu> bug 1357252 in cgmanager (Ubuntu) "systemd-shim fails to handle cgmanager being unavailable" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1357252
<jodh>     of multiple races in various parts of the system :-)
<jodh>     - Currently reworking code hallyn whipped up to resolve this.
<jodh>     -  Wrote script to reboot device until command fails:
<jodh>        http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/scripts/adb-reboot-until-true.sh
<jodh> ð·
<caribou> * DMB application for PPU rights postponed due missed quorum (debconf)
<caribou> * Overhaul of packaging workflow for sosreport : started to use git.dpm
<caribou> * Made sosreport available for Precise, Trusty & Utopic in PPA
<caribou> * Misc SRU work
<caribou> (done)
<stgraber> #topic AOB
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<robru> wait i'm here
<robru> just up
<stgraber> #topic Round table (continued)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations team meeting | Current topic: Round table (continued)
<stgraber> robru: go ahead :)
<robru> * fixed queuebot for RTM bugs
<robru> * fixed citrain dashboard for RTM bugs
<robru> * fixed a bunch of citrain RTM bugs ;-)
<robru> * wrote a script to automate copying utopic packages into RTM silos
<robru> * RTM, RTM, RTM
<robru> * optimized some NFSS graphing logic
<robru> * 10 bajillion citrain landings.
<robru> (done) ;-)
<robru> stgraber: ok I gotta run. thanks!
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Foundations team meeting | Current topic: AOB
<stgraber> anyone has anything to talk about or should we make that one of our shortest meetings ever and adjourn? :)
<caribou> nothing on my side
<jodh> ditto
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 28 15:14:14 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-08-28-15.01.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks stgraber
<jodh> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-24
<jdstrand> hi!
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 24 16:34:20 2015 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I've got work planning to do, various design/document reviews and an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> I have a couple a snappy/apparmor things I should get to. if I have time I may pick on of those up (regenerating seccomp profiles) unless I'm needed to help with a reactive update
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up (fyi, sb eattie is off tooday)
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place
<mdeslaur> I'll be going down the CVE list, and doing updates this week
<mdeslaur> hrm, that's about it
<mdeslaur> who's next? tyhicks?
<sarnold> he's in another meeting atm, maybe jjohansen or I?
<jdstrand> jjohansen:
<jdstrand> jjohansen then sarnold
<jjohansen> right so
<jjohansen> I am recovering from LSS this week
<jjohansen> I guess that means writing a trip report :P
<jdstrand> yes! I'm curious how it went :)
<jjohansen> I will be working on apparmor, I have a couple crasher bugs to hopefully finish with, finish up my dconf apparmor review, and then get back to work on stacking apparmor
<jjohansen> it went well enough
<jdstrand> nice
<jjohansen> some stuff was even interesting
<jjohansen> :)
<jdstrand> hehe
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week; I've got most of a week's ignored emails to plow through, the lihux plumbers trip report to write, and juju MIR to work on
<sarnold> I'd also like to get the oval publishing running for the nice folks who contributed it to us
<jdstrand> yes
<jdstrand> that was nice
<sarnold> probably one of our existing machines / services will be a good place to locate it; it shouldn't take too much
<sarnold> that's it for me, is chrisccoulson around? or is it back to jdstrand?
<chrisccoulson> I'm here
<jdstrand> he is
<chrisccoulson> I plan to get thunderbird out this week (hopefully today or tomorrow). I'll also be catching up on oxide reviews and trying to get that back on track
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I don't think I have anything else planned
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cxxtools.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/teeworlds.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cakephp.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gromacs.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libmodplug.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 16:53:14 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-24-16.34.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-25
<rharper> \o
<caribou> o/
<matsubara> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<arges> o/
<thedac> o/
<smb> o/
<beisner> o/
<smoser> o/
<smoser> heyt.
<smoser> i guess its me.
<smoser> whoops
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 25 16:06:49 2015 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
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<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> seems like agenda did not get updated i think...
<smoser> as my caction item bug 1461242  there is fixe
<ubottu> bug 1461242 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Vivid) "cloud-init does not generate ed25519 keys" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461242
<smoser> i'll remvoe that
<smoser> other item listed there is :
<smoser>  Thoughts about numad
<smoser> anyone know of more content on that ?
<rharper> I've not poked the team
<smoser> ok, well please add that to TODO list / bump its priority
<rharper> smoser: it's a background action item for me to collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff
<smoser> #action rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper collect team thoughts on whether we should have something like numad and other NUMA related placement stuff
<smoser> #topic Wily Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Wily Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> beta1 freeze is thursday.
<smoser> and we're past feature freeze now.
<smoser> so ffe will have to be opened for any new features uyou want.
<smoser> anything else ?
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<caribou> yes,
<smoser> ok... go caribou
<caribou> nm, I'll bring that up at my turn
<caribou> carry on
<smoser> k
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> loading...
<smoser> i have one there for keepalived , bu have been out for thelast two weeks.
<smoser> i'll try to get proress on that by next week.
<smoser> anyone interesated in others ?
<smoser> seems like wesley may hav made progress on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214863711/wily-debdiff
<smoser> err.. on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/214863711/wily-debdiff
<smoser> someone want to shepard that through ?
<smoser> ok. well, that one at very least seems like we shoudl do some mocvement on it.
<magicalChicken> smoser: Yeah, I got a fix uploaded for that one
<magicalChicken> smoser: I need someone to sponsor it though
<smoser> oh. ok. magicalChicken i can see if i can do that for you.
<magicalChicken> smoser: Awesome, thanks
<rbasak> I'm behind on sponsoring team bugfixes. Shall I gather a list maybe of who in the team is waiting on sponsorship and try and work through them?
<rbasak> Though if smoser wants to work on this one feel free :)
<smoser> thanks. for those playing along at home, magicalChicken == wesley
<rbasak> magicalChicken, smoser: note: on my very quick glance you need to s/Closes/LP: #/ in the changelog entry. Closes refers to Debian bugs so it won't autoclose the LP one otherwise.
<smoser> i'm way behind on other things too as a week out did.
<smoser> so i'll leave that to rbasak or smoser
<smoser> and we'll move on, but yeah, you want to reference the ubuntu bug with:
<rbasak> I'll happily take an action to sponsor all outstanding sponsorship requests before the next meeting.
<magicalChicken> rbasak: Aah, i didn't know that. I'll fix that
<smoser>  LP: #1478149
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1478149 in python-tornado (Ubuntu Wily) "python-tornado tests fail against python3.5" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1478149
<rbasak> mag	no problem!
<smoser> moving on.
<smoser> k ?
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<caribou> my request for sponsorship of the rsyslog merge didn't get picked up
<caribou> & we're passed FF
<rbasak> Sorry :-/
<caribou> I'dl like the audience opinion on going for FFE on this one
<caribou> so it gets its bits shaken before LTS
<rbasak> I was swamped around feature freeze and didn't manage to get through all requests.
<rbasak> I still have a pile of FFEs to do.
<caribou> rbasak: no worry, I pinged a few others who were swamped as well :)
<smoser> caribou, your rsyslog ?
<caribou> I have a potential sponsor now if I get the FFE through
<smoser> oh. merge.
<rbasak> I'm not sure it makes sense to FFE everything we missed. It just means that we have less time to fix bugs.
<caribou> smoser: yes, current is 7.4.4 and debian has 8.9.0
<smoser> i'd personlly feel ok to push a ffe for rsyslog.
<smoser> as we would like to have that newer version for x
<rbasak> OTOH I have no objection to individuals driving their own FFEs.
<smoser> and having it cook longer would be good
<caribou> I'm fine with preparing it & let the server team drive it
<rbasak> I don't want to take on driving more FFEs - I have a number I'm taking care of already
<rbasak> And if I take on more, then they're only going to slip anyway.
<caribou> rbasak: true; ok I'll lead this one & may ask for help  on my way
<smoser> ok. well, then . seems like unless someone steps up that will drop
<smoser> :-(
<caribou> smoser: it won't, I'll do it
<rbasak> I'm fine with that caribou - thanks.
<smoser> ah. ok. good.
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
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<smoser> caribou, above, if you do have questions, please feel free to ask.
<matsubara> nothing new to report smoser
<caribou> smoser: k
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
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<smb> Nothing here that I can think of right now. Are there questions?
<smoser> k
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<smoser> anything here ?
<smoser> i dont have anything.
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<smoser> anyone speaking or attending soon and want to mention ?
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
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<rharper> smoser: on the bcache-tools sru to trusty
<smoser> ah. yeah.
<rharper> smoser: you were saying that we probably don't need the TB exception since we wouldn't be regressing things vs. upstream ?
<smoser> unles we put it into an image, then we're virtually guaranteed to not regress aything
<rharper> wouldn't it go into either cloud image or ephemeral? or just rely on them to pull it down from archive as needed ?
<rbasak> I don't think the SRU team will accept it under current SRU policy without a TB-approved exception, but we can see.
<rharper> updated curtin for example, will auto pull in lvm2, mdadm and bcache-tools
<smoser> sru team would probasbly accept it.
<smoser> other than putting it into an image.
<smoser> if its not in an image, then it wont regress anything.
<smoser> its generally ok to put new things ito old releases for important feature / hardware enablement./
<rbasak> I agree that it probably won't regress anything. I'm sure the SRU team won't object on that basis either.
<smoser> but putting it into a maas ephemeral image means it becomes part of the default install of a maas from ubuntu
<smoser> which i can see as possible potential for regression
<rbasak> But AFAIK no "important feature" has ever been SRU'd as new package that wasn't hardware enablement without a TB exception.
<rharper> in either case (as I have a write up for the TB); the bigger issue IMO is the edge testing on bcache-tools
<rbasak> Anyway, it doesn't really matter. It won't create extra or duplicate work whichever way we decide to approach this, so I don't mind either way.
<rharper> while both server and maas teams have been using the bcache-tools package and bcache feature
<rbasak> If the SRU team want an exception from the TB then we can ask for one - there won't be any harm done.
<smoser> rharper, well, putting buggy bcache-tools into trusty isnt necessarily bad on its own.
<rharper> I don't feel those have been edge tested, ie, what happens when we drop the cache device, changing cache modes, recovery, twiddling the sysfs writable values on bcache;
<rharper> smoser: it's an LTS
<rharper> so it can hurt for longer
<smoser> except for when it is annoyingly buggy
<smoser> and bcache-utils *is* annoyingly buggy
<rharper> well
<rharper> sorta
<rharper> the main function doesn't appear that way
<rharper> but it's quite awkward to deal with
<smoser> right.
<smoser> which could happen unintentionally
<rharper> which is why I started on that bcache-release script to help folks "cleanup" the mess
<rharper> yes
<smoser> thats the point i think is important really.
<smoser> is that you're essentially suggesting it become part of a default install
<smoser> and thus it requires significantly more thought
<rharper> as per maas request
<smoser> than just adding a package to the archive that will not be used by someone unless they "opt in"
<rharper> to make trusty  ~= vivid ~= wily w.r.t storage config features
<rharper> ok
<smoser> so.. i'd say go to TB i guess.
<rharper> and include some bits on in archive, vs. in image
<smoser> and be clear that your intent is to add it to a "default install". as i think thats the intent.
<rharper> and a follow up with maas, can they get by with 'in archive' vs. 'in image'
<smoser> if instead curtin will install it into the ephemeral image and then into the target only when it is needed, then it requires much less scrutiny in my opintion
<smoser> becase even then, its essentially "opt in" by a user of maas.
<rharper> that's how it is today
<rharper> and unless maas complains about the extra hit to archive to pull in deps
<rharper> likely not since we're not going to put lvm2 nor mdadm into default install, no ?
<rharper> smoser: it didn't seem likely given your discussion re: mdadm + mail dep in #ubuntu-devel the other week
<rbasak> That's going to slow down the install though, no?
<rharper> so I don't think bcache-tools not in default install is a significant burden since it still has lvm2 and mdadm to install
<rharper> rbasak: indeed
<rbasak> We don't really want curtin to have to install packages locally in the long term.
<rharper> but we'd need all 3 deps to be in
<smoser> shoot. i had to follow up on that... i thought the discussion ended with 'lets add it'.
<rbasak> It might be acceptable for Trusty though.
<rharper> smoser: maybe it did; I only saw the initial discussion w.r.t the mail deps
<smoser> i'm on same page with rbasak.
<rharper> folks saying, no if I have a raid I really would like to have it send an email if something is wrong (w.r.t the madm dep on postfix)
<smoser> we want the default install to have those things, so we should work to get them into wily and then X
<smoser> but if we can live with trusty being less than perfect than that is good.
<rharper> so trusty and vivid need runtime deps installed via curtin
<rharper> wily could be fixed and in=place for x
<rbasak> Yeah. X is only round the corner now anyway.
<rharper> trusty and vivid
<rharper> but, yes
<rharper> unless you rebuild those images IIUC
<smoser> well the images are re-built, but we'd have to add those packages.
<rharper> sure
<rbasak> That's a good point. If you implement in curtin with a test, it'll always be possible to get a local speed up by hacking your local ephemeral image if it matters to you.
<smoser> ok. so i think this is beaten.  i guess you should go ahead to TB.
<smoser> rharper, and we should get those packages into wily cloud and maas images.
<rharper> smoser: ok, can you add the action items then ?
<rharper> are we OK with the level of edge testing then ?
<smoser> #action rharper send email to TB about bcache-utils into trusty
<meetingology> ACTION: rharper send email to TB about bcache-utils into trusty
<rharper> that was the only thing holding me back before sending to TB
<caribou> bcache-utils == bcache-tools ?
<rharper> yes
<smoser> right
<smoser> #action smoser, rharper get other packages into cloud-image necessary for storage features.
<meetingology> ACTION: smoser, rharper get other packages into cloud-image necessary for storage features.
<rharper> smoser: ok, I'm good
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> next meeting will be Tuesday, September 1 at 16:00 UTC
<smoser> chair will be gnuoy
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 16:41:54 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-25-16.06.moin.txt
<caribou> smoser: thanks!
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 25 17:00:28 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<smb> o/
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *     Precise - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Trusty - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *  lts-Utopic - Verification & Testing
<bjf>   *      Vivid  - Verification & Testing
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 16-Aug through 05-Sep
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          14-Aug   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 15-Aug - 22-Aug   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 23-Aug - 29-Aug   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 30-Aug - 05-Sep   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 17:04:19 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-25-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-27
<pitti> o/
<bdmurray> \o
<sil2100> o/
<barry> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<tdaitx_> o~
<robru> ~0
<robru> oops, I'm tall today
 * slangasek waves
<robru> conehead, even
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 27 15:01:41 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<caribou> ~o~
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> cyphermox doko barry sil2100 slangasek caribou robru tdaitx bdmurray pitti infinity
<cyphermox> woo!
<cyphermox>  - last week: DebConf
<cyphermox>  - Monday: DebFlu was the worst; getting better
<cyphermox>  - debugging NetworkManager autopkgtests / building (unit tests) on arm64
<cyphermox>  - prepare and upload skiboot/opal-prd 5.1.1
<cyphermox>  - some sponsoring for MATE packages
<cyphermox>  - helping identify an issue in dpkg-genchanges' date parsing
<cyphermox>  - looking into ubi-timezone bug 1462688.
<cyphermox>  - more multipath-related SRU work
<ubottu> bug 1462688 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubi-timezone failed exit code 1 error when installing UbuntuStudio Wily-15.10 32bit version" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1462688
<cyphermox> (done)
<doko> - DebConf last week
<doko> - python-support removal uploads
<doko> - some GCC work
<doko> - starting to merge things
<doko> - get tdaitx access for openjdk / TCK
<doko> (done)
<barry> py35 transition: aptdaemon, software-properties, ubuntu-drivers-common (i could not fix, so bug reported), LP: #1488175, enum34 (python3-enum34 removed and deps fixing), flufl.bounce, mako, pyflakes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1488175 in Autopilot "FTBFS on WIly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1488175
<barry> continue to look at weird python3-funcsigs build-dep from mako (via mock), only on ubuntu.  signs point to outdated dh-python, testing unstable merge now
<barry> restarting django 1.8 transition this week
<barry> --done--
<sil2100> Argh, me already
<sil2100> Ok, this will be a quick one:
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - OTA-6:
<sil2100>   * Preparing language packs through langpack-o-matic
<sil2100>   * Release notes, image copies, phasing, late re-spins of images, package copies
<sil2100>   * Release release release
<sil2100> - Modify phasing script to work with multiple channels
<sil2100> - Review and sync mate-tweak and caja-extensions per ubuntu-mate dev request
<sil2100> - appmenu-qt5:
<sil2100>   * Investigating possible solutions to the shortcuts bug for OTA-7
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - Various seed changes
<sil2100> - Ubuntu-PD related work
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek>  * short week: DebConf, then Plumbers, then DebFlu
<slangasek>  * discussions at Plumbers around UEFI support, and changes that would allow us to enforce kernel signing by default
<slangasek>  * discussions around the new Ubuntu zSeries support that was announced at LinuxCon
<slangasek> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix :  - makedumpfile kernel support on trusty - calibre broken bulk edit SRU (LP: #1282898) - lsb upstart blocked SRU (LP: #1273462)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282898 in calibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "Broken Edit Metadata in Bulk commits 1.25.0" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1273462 in lsb (Ubuntu Trusty) "Users can mistakenly run init.d scripts and cause problems if an equivalent upstart job already exists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273462
<caribou> merges :
<caribou> - FFE for rsyslog merge since did not get sponsored
<caribou>    * Thanks to pitti for help.
<caribou>  Sosreport upstream
<caribou>  - Packaging
<pitti> caribou: (will sponsor ASAP after your fixes from a hour ago)
<caribou> â
<caribou> done
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru>  - achieved 100% test coverage
<robru>  - dramatically simplified prepare-silo form
<robru>  - new staleness report job for identifying silos for freeing during crunches
<robru>  - module reorg splitting up massive build.py into smaller submodules
<robru>  - regenerate diffs at start of publication, fixes bug with certain manual packages not having diffs generated
<robru>  - drop a pile of python bilingualisms, cementing python3 as the only supported language
<robru>  - ensure train will never generate changelogs with empty bullet points ever again
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru>  - overhaul URL handling, making for nicer-looking URLs
<robru>  - redirect back to correct URL after SSO signin
<robru>  - expand requests page with links to jenkins build/publish/clean jobs, deprecating dashboard page
<robru>  - added a number of new API endpoints for searching through different types of requests that require action
<robru> +1 maintenance:
<robru>  - submitted a few patches for packages failing with BOOST_JOIN, even got a couple accepted in debian
<robru>  - a few other small patches here and there, still lots to learn
<robru> â finito
<tdaitx>  - Learn the hard way how to backport stuff from OpenJDK 8 to 7 and 6, specially when ancestors have been selectively and partially backported
<tdaitx> - Tried to use mercurial as a git user, not working; read on, got it somewhat right; felt like losing superpowers
<tdaitx> - Tried to backport TLS 1.2 from JDK7 into 6, failed; a dev said he don't see a point; on hold for now
<tdaitx> - Enabled TLS 1.2 by default for OpenJDK 7 and TLS 1.1 for OpenJDK 6; previously both used TLS 1.0 as default; LP: #1482924
<tdaitx> - Learned more on the innards of OpenJDK packaging; also read security docs on it
<tdaitx> - Built new packages for OpenJDK 7 and 6 with the TLS backports
<tdaitx> Next steps
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482924 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Regressions due to USN-2696-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482924
<tdaitx> - Get started with TCK (thanks doko for access!)
<tdaitx> - Triage/fix OpenJDK bugs
<tdaitx> - Fix FTBFS for fun and learning
<tdaitx> - Update OpenJDK 7 to 2.6.1 for fun and learning
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<tdaitx> - Figure out whether we have Oracle Contribution Agreement (OCA) or not; Dalibor from Oracle says we don't, doko says we should; need to get it if we don't have it
<tdaitx> - Submit TLS backports upstream for review as soon as OCA is cleared
<tdaitx> Updates
<tdaitx> - ISP is in a sorry state, trying its hardest to keep me offline (and mad) since yesterday; maintenance is scheduled for the afternoon
<tdaitx> (done)
<bdmurray> created a set of core files for which the ExecutablePath could not be found to delete from swift
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding removing core files (old ones too) from swift
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have new dse node added to cassandra_hosts for the error tracker
<bdmurray> setup a device blacklist in daisy so we stop accepting crash files from some systems
<bdmurray> test and fix an issue with how daisy handles apport not being able to 'find package which ships ExecutablePath'
<bdmurray> SRU verification (T, V) of apport bug LP: #1470572
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1470572 in apport (Ubuntu Vivid) "native-origins.d information causes apport to strip origin information from Package" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1470572
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1485773 re new_only
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1487174 regarding sandbox building
<bdmurray> replied to comments in apt lists bug LP: #1471903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1485773 in apport (Ubuntu) "new_only option when writing reports stops some data from being written" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485773
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1487174 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport-retrace's build sandbox routine carries on if it can't find the package for an ExecutablePath" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1487174
<bdmurray> uploaded W and T, V SRU for apport bug LP: #1485787
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1471903 in live-build (Ubuntu) "-updates, -security missing from apt lists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1471903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1485787 in apport (Ubuntu Vivid) "package_hook does not include package version" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1485787
<bdmurray> review/cleanup of bad bug modifier work
<bdmurray> resolved pep8 / test failures errors with ubuntu-release-upgrader
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-uprader bug triage
<bdmurray> tested upgrading from Trusty to Utopic (doesn't prompt if lts is set and does warn about EoL release)
<bdmurray> updated EoL release announcement on changelogs.ubuntu.com (typos)
<bdmurray> sponsored T patch for LP: #1358154
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1358154 in bash-completion (Debian) "Bash autocompletion not working for apt command" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1358154
<bdmurray> â done
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - find out why ppc64el test nodes keep getting killed, fix that, and enable the arch for autopkgtesting
<pitti>  - enable armhf for autopkgtesting too
<pitti>  - enable autopkgtesting for precise: done for i386/amd64, in progress for arm/ppc
<pitti> britney:
<pitti>  - britney: add linuxâ DKMS triggering, to replace the old custom Jenkins jobs; also needs some dkms backporting for autopkgtest helper script (#1489045)
<pitti>  - britney: add machine readable autopkgtest results to YAML output for kernel team consuption
<pitti>  - britney: merge with Debian, port to Python 3
<pitti>  - debci: Fix missing results due to swift list batching
<pitti> systemd: some bug fixes, merge with debian
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - debconf last week
<pitti>  - some remaining pieces of g++-5 transitions
<pitti>  - apport: fix broken StacktraceSource attachments (#1462491)
<pitti>  - langpack-o-matic: Re-fix daily PPA uploads
<pitti> EOT
<barry> robru: \o/
<pitti> I suppose/hope infinity is asleep
<robru> barry: :-D
<slangasek> bdmurray: device blacklist?  there are rogue devices submitting broken crashes?
<slangasek> pitti: what's our baseline for precise autopkgtests?  I don't remember this ever having been something we discussed doing, and I would assume the rate of false-positives would be unreasonably high
<pitti> slangasek: almost no precise packages actually have a test
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes, we occassionally see systems trying to report crashes that cause an OOPS when writing to the database and whoopsie tries to resubmit them every 2 hours
<pitti> slangasek: this is mostly for kernel triggering DKMS, and some backported ones
<slangasek> pitti: ah, ok
<bdmurray> I haven't found the root cause and its just a couple of systems in the list so far
<slangasek> bdmurray: wow, alright
<pitti> slangasek: but indeed I expect a fair bit of "always failed" there; but we are looking for "regression", which will still be very useful
<slangasek> right, I guess the situation would be /better/ than trusty since we don't have the situation of a pre-release baseline + 6 months of SRUs causing bitrot
<pitti> slangasek: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/precise/update_excuses.html FTR
<slangasek> any other questions on status? (and yes I assume infinity is off resting)
<pitti> (still fairly new, thus lots of queued items still)
<pitti> and DKMS package testing itself is fairly heuristic; we can/should iterate on that to refine it
<slangasek> "lots of queued items" + "almost no packages have tests" == "hrm" :)
<pitti> slangasek: we do have a fair bit of DKMS packages, and apparently firefox/thunderbird backports which declare Testsuite:
<slangasek> ok
<pitti> let's see how it works out
<pitti> but CI and kernel teams want to move to this unified "let britney handle it" workflow instead of the custom jobs
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> Anything else today?
<cyphermox> ah, yes
<cyphermox> yesterday it was brought up that upgrading from vivid failed, with some modemmanager errors
<bdmurray> pitti: Could you have a look at bug 1489410? I'm okay with working on it but don't know where to head.
<ubottu> bug 1489410 in Canonical System Image "do not require apt lists to be pre-installed" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489410
<cyphermox> looks like it's more than just MM, it affects bluetooth too, etc. --> looks like an issue with dbus and/or systemd when upgrading
<cyphermox> I was looking for a bug for it, will open one
<bdmurray> cyphermox: bug 1481798?
<ubottu> bug 1481798 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "package:modemmanager:1.4.10-1:subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 100" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481798
<pitti> bdmurray: will do; that's for testing the origin: only, right? as file -> package mapping should only require the dpkg db, nto apt
<cyphermox> bdmurray: yup
<bdmurray> pitti: right, ubuntu-bug wasn't working on the phone for packages from -updates because the lists for -updates weren't there.
<cyphermox> bdmurray: I meant "if there was a bug with more info", but this works.
<pitti> bdmurray: hmm, this is a rather poor bug report -- there is no description of an actual bug
 * pitti asks there
<bdmurray> pitti: bug 1471903 has some more details
<ubottu> bug 1471903 in live-build (Ubuntu) "-updates, -security missing from apt lists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1471903
<bdmurray> cyphermox: the duplicates should have more information
<cyphermox> bdmurray: yes, they do
<slangasek> alrighty, anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 27 15:29:36 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-08-27-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<tdaitx> thanks!
<caribou> thanks !
<barry> thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> sil2100: is that a hand raised or a wave goodbye?
<sil2100> Goodbye hand ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-08-30
<phakman> Hi all, Im new in this forum, I need your help, I have a Macbook, with Ubuntu 14.04 (main OS and only) but It didn't let me loggin, I try to reinstall the xserver-xorg but i screw up all, now never stat the X's
<phakman> now I tried to reinstall Ubuntu but when I press the option key cannot see the USB with the ISO which is the same I used to install the first time
<phakman> can someone help me?
<ahoneybun> phakman: move over to #ubuntu for help :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-29
<cyphermox> BenC: you around for the DMB meeting?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> bdmurray: hey! You around?
 * Odd_Bloke is here.
<bdmurray> sil2100: I am
 * nacc too
<rbasak> That's four then. We have quorum I think?
<rbasak> bdmurray: would you chair please, as you're next in line after infinity and BenC?
<sil2100> bdmurray: would you feel strong enough today to chair the meeting? Since infinity and BenC are not here, you'd be the next alpha-wise
<bdmurray> sil2100: yep
<bdmurray> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 15:03:22 2016 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> Thanks!
<bdmurray> cyphermox: any news on the Mate package changes?
<cyphermox> done!
<cyphermox> I'm updating the packagesets now
<bdmurray> Does anybody know if infinity made the changes for GunnarHj and Otto?
<cyphermox> I don't know
<cyphermox> but I could do the LP team changes for Otto if necessary
<rbasak> I sorted Otto.
<rbasak> I did all three of my actions on the agenda.
<rbasak> Oh, sorry.
<rbasak> There was an infinity task to actually add Otto's PPU.
<rbasak> I haven't/can't do that.
<rbasak> And it appears nobody has PPU to mariadb-10.0 yet.
<bdmurray> Okay, lets leave infinity's two items on there but if cyphermox could sort out Ott's access that would be great.
<rbasak> AIUI, it needs a TB member.
<bdmurray> rbasak: Okay, I think infinity is out for the week.   I'll try to find one to help then.
<rbasak> Thanks!
<bdmurray> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<rbasak> bdmurray: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-August/000951.html is relevant, if an alternative TB member is found.
<bdmurray> #subtopic Daniel Watkins / ubuntu-cloud packageset
<Odd_Bloke> o/
<bdmurray> #subtopic Daniel Watkins / ubuntu-cloud packageset
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: could you introduce your self and your work?
<Odd_Bloke> Sure.
<Odd_Bloke> I'm Dan Watkins, I'm a member of the Canonical Certified Public Cloud team.  We're responsible for the images produced at cloud-images.ubuntu.com, and the images that are published in to the major public clouds.
<Odd_Bloke> We're a small team, so everyone is generally responsible for everything, but my backgroun is in Python, so I do a lot of work with cloud-init.
<sil2100> Looking at your upload history, how do you feel about your experience with Debian packaging?
<Odd_Bloke> The tools in the ubuntu-cloud pacakageset are used primarily in cloud applications, so are directly applicable to the work we do.
<sil2100> Since most of your uploads were either patches or code-changes (in livecd-rootfs for instance)
<Odd_Bloke> I'm not the most experienced packager, but I am confident in Python packages.
<Odd_Bloke> WHich make up a decent chunk of these packages.
<Odd_Bloke> I have done work in other packages, just not to the same extent.
<Odd_Bloke> So I would expect to look for support in cases where I'm not fully confident in the changes that I'm looking to make.
<Odd_Bloke> (I believe that people I've worked with would vouch for my ability to identify when I need to look for support. :)
<sil2100> Fair enough, it's best to always ask when you're not sure how to deal with something
<Odd_Bloke> Absolutely; we work with the kernel and foundations team a lot (for non-packaging work), so I'm used to liaising with others when necessary.
<Odd_Bloke> Though, of course, the aim would be to reduce those cases over time. :)
<bdmurray> rbasak, cyphermox: Do you have any questions?
<rbasak> No questions.
<rbasak> I've worked with Odd_Bloke over the years, most recently at a week-long sprint last month.
<cyphermox> Odd_Bloke: do you know what is the current state of the archive? Given upload rights now, could you currently upload stuff without question?
<rbasak> So I have an understanding of his technical capabilities, etc.
<Odd_Bloke> cyphermox: Nope, we're feature-frozen at the moment.
<cyphermox> right, that's really all I wanted to hear about :)
<cyphermox> no more questions
<sil2100> No questions here as well
<bdmurray> #vote for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights
<meetingology> Please vote on: for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> Generally I would prefer to see a bit more uploads before giving PPU rights, but since the package-set is fairly small and not super-dangerous (especially that it's all managed by his team) + the endorsements, I would say:
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<bdmurray> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: for Daniel Watkins ubuntu-cloud packageset upload rights
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> sil2100: I beg to disagree about not so dangerous. some packages there have the potential of breaking boot for cloud images :)
<rbasak> Yes, I did feel that the number of uploads was pretty low. I feel that he just made it over the line for PPU.
<sil2100> Odd_Bloke: congratulations!
<Odd_Bloke> \o/
<sil2100> cyphermox: sure, but as said, it's all his job right? ;)
<rbasak> (well, a limited packageset)
<cyphermox> sil2100: well, yes
<Odd_Bloke> Thanks all. :)
<rbasak> bdmurray: please could you assign actions? The three things I think are required are: add to ~ubuntu-dev if not already; add to packageset ACL, and announce (to the news team and in the devel-permissions thread at a minimum).
<bdmurray> rbasak: to myself?
<cyphermox> or to me
<sil2100> +1 on adding exact actions, this way we won't forget about stuff
<rbasak> To whomever we nominate :)
<rbasak> Yeah we agreed on assigning actions to avoid missing stuff a few meetings ago.
<cyphermox> I'm volunteering.
<bdmurray> #action cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-dev
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-dev
<bdmurray> #action cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-cloud packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to add Odd_Bloke to ubuntu-cloud packageset
<rbasak> I don't mind three things being inside one action FWIW; I just identified three things in case they get split :)
<bdmurray> #action cyphermox to announce the result of Odd_Bloke's application
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to announce the result of Odd_Bloke's application
<rbasak> Thank you!
<bdmurray> #topic adding libdumbnet and zerofree to the ubuntu-cloud packageset
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: adding libdumbnet and zerofree to the ubuntu-cloud packageset
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: Could you talk about that briefly?
<Odd_Bloke> These are packages that were pulled in to main as a result of open-vm-tools being pulled in to main.
<Odd_Bloke> Which is in the ubuntu-cloud packageset.
<Odd_Bloke> My team is the bug supervisor for bugs in them.
<sil2100> For both of those, yes?
<Odd_Bloke> So it seems like they naturally belong in the same packageset.
<Odd_Bloke> Yep, for both.
<sil2100> Since looking at the packages themselves I wasn't sure if those were typically cloud-oriented, one of them was a Recommends of open-vm-tools
<sil2100> Also, I saw that basically almost all development for those happens in Debian
<Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I don't anticipate these being a regular upload.
<Odd_Bloke> But having upload rights to packages that our team has volunteered to maintain would make that job easier if a case ever did come up where an Ubuntu upload were needed. :)
<bdmurray> Do we need to vote on this?  I'm okay with it.
<rbasak> AIUI, it only needs one DMB member to +1 it. No vote required.
<sil2100> Ok, if you guys are ok with it then I'll add those to the packageset
<cyphermox> I'm not sure
<cyphermox> I have a hard time deciding how zerofree is cloud-specific ?
<sil2100> I originally wanted to do that but I didn't feel like it's the right way
<sil2100> Hence my doubts above
<sil2100> So I wanted to discuss it here
<rbasak> Does a package need to be specific to the goals of a particular packageset as a requirement to add it to that packageset?
<rbasak> Or would that just be a reason to have it in multiple packagesets?
<Odd_Bloke> zerofree isn't cloud-specific, but it is used heavily in the production of cloud images.
<cyphermox> a packageset usually has a definition that the packages should match to, at least to some degree
<cyphermox> however, looking into the team, it looks like maybe it's fine
<rbasak> "Description: Packages required to create, bootstrap, use or configure Ubuntu Cloud images and their derivatives."
<cyphermox> Packages required to create, bootstrap, use or configure Ubuntu Cloud images and their derivatives
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> that's a pretty wide description though
<sil2100> Yeah
<rbasak> It is, but it appears that the DMB has previously voted on having that wide description.
<rbasak> We would narrow it. That would require 4 +1s AIUI.
<rbasak> *could
<sil2100> I'm not sure also what policies we have, if we want to add packages to packagesets as-is or only if we see it makes sense, like, in anticipating actual uploads
<rbasak> But I'm find with that description. Odd_Bloke's team needs that sort of breadth to be useful, IMHO.
<cyphermox> no, I'm fine with how it currently is
<rbasak> *fine
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> well, +1 for zerofree from me
<cyphermox> just looking at libdumbnet now :)
<cyphermox> +1 for that one too, I guess
<rbasak> sil2100 raises a good point, but I see no reason to object if there isn't another team paying attention to this packages (and it appears to me that there isn't).
<sil2100> Ok, if more experienced DMB members are ok then please add me an action item for that :)
<cyphermox> actually, it's under core-dev and server too
<rbasak> What is?
<cyphermox> well, both zerofree and libdumbnet
<rbasak> open-vm-tools is in the server seed.
<rbasak> Which pulls in libdumbnet1 too.
<cyphermox> it's all good; should we carry on?
<rbasak> Though with my server team hat on, I can confirm that the server team looks to Odd_Bloke's team for any open-vm-tools related uploads.
<rbasak> So really it's just his team.
<bdmurray> #action sil2100 to add libdumbnet and zerofree to ubuntu-cloud packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add libdumbnet and zerofree to ubuntu-cloud packageset
<cyphermox> well it really just was to see who had theoretically access to upload the packages
<sil2100> Thanks!
<bdmurray> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
<cyphermox> not necessarily who takes the responsibility
<rbasak> Ah, OK.
<bdmurray> #subtopic Nish Aravamudan
<bdmurray> nacc: For the record could you introduce yourself and your work?
<nacc> bdmurray: sure!
<nacc> Hi everyone! My name is Nish Aravamudan and I'm a member of the Canonical Server team. I'm working with rbasak and cpaelzer on the release side of things for the Server Team, so helping work through bugs and issues across the distribution related to server.
<nacc> I've had several uploads sponsored already, touching many packages, and have become the de facto responder to PHP7.0 bugs in 16.04 and on (and helping work through bugs in PHP5 as best I can in 14.04)
<bdmurray> Does anybody have an questions for nacc?
<sil2100> I like the number of uploads, although most of those I see were rebuilds/dep-changes for the php transition, right?
<bdmurray> I've seen quite a few SRUs for 16.04, iirc.
<nacc> sil2100: yeah, probably ~400 or so were related to the PHP transition, which was pretty large. Not all were rebuilds/dep-changes, some were syncs, and a few required patches (which then I sent to Debian)
<nacc> bdmurray: yeah, some of the transition and fixes to the packages themselves have come via SRU
<sil2100> nacc: since the list is so big (and I haven't had the time to check this), how many of those uploads you got sponsored were main packages?
<rbasak> I have no questions for nacc (I work with him and we speak regularly).
<cyphermox> no questions
<sil2100> (I know php is, but yeah)
<nacc> sil2100: a good question :) I have touched several packages in main (qemu, php itself, etc.). I apologize but I'm actually on vacation right now and not at my normal computer to search on.
<sil2100> Just trying to see if core-dev is a necessity here or maybe MOTU would be good enough, but possibly php here is the 'thing'
<sil2100> Ok, so I'll just drop one quick packaging question here:
<sil2100> nacc: let's say you need to rename a binary package foo into foobar in the given release
<sil2100> nacc: what would be the control field's you'd use to make that happen and not break stuff on upgrades?
<sil2100> *fields
<nacc> sil2100: i have not done that yet myself, but I believe the general method involves dummy/transitional package named foo that depends (I think) on foobar. You'd possibly also want foobar to conflict with foo? I  probably would spend some time consulting the debian manual on this and other developers to be sure :)
<sil2100> nacc: yeah, that's a good direction, breaks is better suited here generally instead of conflicts
<sil2100> And remember you'd need a Replaces too
<sil2100> But you'd find that in the debian manual
<nacc> sil2100: ah ok; that makes sense; and of course on the replaces, sorry for forgetting that!
<bdmurray> sil2100: anything else?
<sil2100> All from me
<bdmurray> #vote Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<bdmurray> sil2100, rbasak: ?
<sil2100> One moment, still thinking, give me 2 more minutes
<sil2100> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
<rbasak> +1 I would have preferred to recuse myself, but given that everyone else here is unanimous, I'm adding my +1 so that we have a quorate vote
<meetingology> +1 I would have preferred to recuse myself, but given that everyone else here is unanimous, I'm adding my +1 so that we have a quorate vote received from rbasak
<bdmurray> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Nish Aravamudan for Ubuntu Core Developer
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdmurray> nacc: Congratulations
<sil2100> nacc: congratulations! But please, whenever in doubt consult things with more experienced core-devs
<nacc> Thank you everyone!
<nacc> sil2100: absolutely!
<nacc> sil2100: I plan on being very cautious :)
<bdmurray> cyphermox: Do you mind also taking care of the changes for nacc?
<sil2100> You're doing a great job in overall but I was still a bit weary of giving so much power to someone fairly, well, unexperienced
<cyphermox> no problem
<nacc> sil2100: totally understood :)
<bdmurray> #action cyphermox to add nacc to ubuntu-coredev and announce result of application
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox to add nacc to ubuntu-coredev and announce result of application
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> But seeing all your work on php, starting off with MOTU might have been a bit of a waste of time - also, rbasak and slangasek did endorse you with details
<nacc> sil2100: yeah, i've worked closely (and plan on continuing to do so) with both of them
<bdmurray> anything else?
<bdmurray> Okay, then.
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 29 16:17:54 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-29-15.03.moin.txt
<sil2100> bdmurray: thanks for chairing!
<sil2100> nacc: excellent ;)
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 16:30:56 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi
<jdstrand> short week this week (off friday)
<jdstrand> last week had a few unplanned items that caused things to be pushed back a bit: discussed the shared mount for snap implementation, bunch of apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu merges, discussions where others landed the branches in silos
<jdstrand> the apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu silos had yakkety failures in qrt and autopkgtests due to yakkety changes, so I investigated those. The qrt test faillures were due to dropping 13.10 frameworks. autopkgtests were from a click bug that others are working on
<jdstrand> I did finish the lxd-support interface and finished working with the desktop team on browser policy. This resulted in several additional cards being added for the review tools. Those cards are almost done and hopefully I'll finish them today
<jdstrand> this week I'm going to work on the high priority policy bugs PR, high priority interface PR reviews (eg, udisks2/pluggable-storage, docker, fwupd, systemd interaction and serial-port)
<jdstrand> now that the shared mount for snaps is worked out, I'll explore using 'ip netns exec' with strict mode snaps
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<tyhicks> sbeattie: go ahead
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week
<sbeattie> Kernel updates are in the middle of promoted to -security, so I'll be publishing the USNs for those after the meeting.
<sbeattie> After that, I plan to go through the list for updates.
<sbeattie> I also have some apparmor reviews to do.
<sbeattie> That's probably my week. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week (thanks to ratliff for picking up bug triage!)
<tyhicks> I'm attempting to bring unix domain socket AppArmor mediation support back to 14.04 + hardware enablement kernel
<tyhicks> I'll be working on seccomp complain mode
<tyhicks> that should keep me busy along with incoming requests throughout the week
<tyhicks> jjohansen: go ahead
<jjohansen> I am back from LSS and I have a few cleanup items related to that.
<jjohansen> I'll then be crying over^W^W working on fixing stacking bugs and finishing up gsettings review wi.
<jjohansen> And if I actually get to a point where any of that is cleared or waiting for feedback will be working on finishing up what needs to be done for upstreaming
<jjohansen> I think that is it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: can you please ensure that the fix for bug 1579135 will be included in the next SRU kernel?
<ubottu> bug 1579135 in apparmor (Ubuntu Yakkety) "AppArmor profile reloading causes an intermittent kernel BUG" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579135
<tyhicks> jjohansen: we have another apparmor SRU for xenial and I'm going to hold it back until that kernel fix has been published
<jjohansen> tyhicks: yep, that has been submitted and committed. we just need to stay ontop of the SRU process now
<tyhicks> jjohansen: ok, thanks!
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> good morning
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I haven't yet looked at the backlog of reviews or updates to perform yet, so I'm not sure where the remainder of my week will be
<sarnold> I suspect it'ls unity8 MIRs?
<tyhicks> yep
<sarnold> it'd be nice to also make progress on cboltz's huge patchset
<sarnold> I just now realized that that certainly falls as a 'feature', does it make sense to do a FFE for that patchset for yakkety? hrm.
<tyhicks> sarnold: FYI, sounds like kshitij8 is working on reviewing it
<sarnold> yay
<sarnold> he knows the tools and python better than I do :)
<sarnold> anyway that's me
<tyhicks> I don't know enough about that patch set to say if we need to get it into yakkety
<sarnold> no tab-complete for chris coulson, ratliff then?
<ratliff> I'm on bug triage this week.
<ratliff> I'll be learning the community role from sarnold this week as well.
<ratliff> I'm working on an update for clamav.
<ratliff> And poking at the Unity 8 MIRs
<ratliff> that's it for me, back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gamera.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mbedtls.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/mediaelement.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-rsa.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/node-cli.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sarnold> o/~ gamera is really neat gamera is full of meat o/~
<tyhicks> heh
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 29 16:50:10 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-29-16.30.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-30
* dinger-donger changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: To find big channels with unlocked topics, use /msg alis list * -min 100 -mode -t    Then you can join them and abuse their /topic for the lulz!
* DalekSec changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<Mikaela> what is wrong with at least TOPICLOCK and +t flags?
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 30 16:00:16 2016 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak>     powersj to coordinate updating of triaging section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
<rbasak> powersj: how's that going?
<powersj> done! please add action item for rbasak and cpaelzer to review
<rbasak> Excellent, thanks!
<rbasak> #action cpaelzer and rbasak to review new triaging section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<meetingology> ACTION: cpaelzer and rbasak to review new triaging section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
* rbasak changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Development Release
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> Any updates or work that needs wider communication?
<rbasak> I sent an email about ntpdate to the ML earlier.
<cpaelzer> I'll come to the ML with some discussion about what we face with qemu machine types
<rbasak> Great!
<rbasak> Anything else?
<cpaelzer> but I'm still writing use cases and examples and discuss with more peers - so nothing for now
<jgrimm> o/
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<rbasak> caribou: o/
<caribou> rbasak: nothing much
<caribou> rbasak: working on a sosreport subordinate charm
<caribou> rbasak: and normal bugfixing investigation
<rbasak> Sounds good!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Investigated Yakkety ISO oversize issue and determined root cause to be due to GCC 6 transition. GCC 6 binaries are significantly larger than GCC 5. Fix is planed before Yakkety release.
<rbasak> Any updates from powersj, or questions for powersj?
<powersj> Continuing to work with robie, cpaelzer, nacc on server bug triage. Made updates to documentation, but still need to continue documenting process and procedure as we continue to evolve it. See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<powersj> Automated ISO tests are getting better. Goal is to complete triage of remaining failing tests and build action plan for final tests. These final issues are quite a bit more complicated and may require removing or revamping the tests entirely due to nature of the changes.
<powersj> Thanks to cpaelzer have access to torkoal. RT ticket is closed, so up to us to complete the setup. May be able to get it up on Jenkins this week. Cross your fingers. Finally, getting lxctest + curtin ipv6 tests prototype working before heading out this week.
<rbasak> Thank you powersj!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<rbasak> Anything to/from thje kernel team?
<smb> nothing new since last week
<smb> as to "to" if tehre are questions?
<rbasak> I guess not. Thank you smb!
<rbasak> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rbasak> Any upcoming CfPs?
* rbasak changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Any upcoming events?
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
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<rbasak> Any other comments?
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> The next meeting will be on Tue 6 Sep 16:00:00 UTC 2016. gaughen will chair.
<rbasak> #topic Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
 * gaughen avoids eye contact
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assign daily bug triage for week (powersj, rbasak, nacc, cpaelzer)
<rbasak> gaughen: :)
<powersj> yea! my new topic
<rbasak> powersj: would you mind taking this topic please?
<powersj> yes
<rbasak> Ah :)
<powersj> so point of this is to make sure we have coverage each week for bug triage
<powersj> cpaelzer took Monday + weekend, I'll be taking tuesday and wednesday
<powersj> rbasak, would you be able to triage thursday/friday?
<powersj> we don't have nacc this week so just 3 of us
<rbasak> Sure
<rbasak> So when should I triage what?
<rbasak> Are you talking about the day I triage, or the days I must cover?
<powersj> excellent and by day I mean the day you do triage. So if you are triaging thursday/friday means you will be covering the bugs that came in wednesday/thursday
<rbasak> OK.
<powersj> I tried to put this on the wiki as well
<powersj> but may need to be called out a bit better :)
<rbasak> OK
<rbasak> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<jgrimm> rbasak, i updated my bugs
<rbasak> Thank you!
<jgrimm> closed 1, still have 1 assigned
<rbasak> Does anyone else have any updates?
<cpaelzer> I updated directly in the sheet
<cpaelzer> and rbasak already covered the open wound that is the stalled ntp bugs with his mail
<cpaelzer> thanks
<jgrimm> :)
<rbasak> Does anyone have capacity to take more bugs?
<jgrimm> rbasak, i'll take one
<cpaelzer> I'll add those that I already work on to the list without taking any on top
<jgrimm> rbasak especially if you have other bite-sized
<rbasak> jgrimm: how about bug 1580731? Looks like a straightforward SRU.
<ubottu> bug 1580731 in augeas (Ubuntu Xenial) "augeas-lenses filter for PHP files doesn't match php7.0-* files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580731
<jgrimm> rbasak, sure!
<rbasak> Great! Anyone else?
<rbasak> OK, so I guess we're done.
<rbasak> Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 30 16:17:44 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-08-30-16.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-08-31
<nawaf> hello there guys :)
<pavlushka> hello nawaf !
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-09-01
<pitti> o/
<tdaitx> \o
<robru> o~
<pitti> that's a very 31337 club today
<tdaitx> seems so
<pitti> hmm, postpone to next week then?
<xnox> yeah....
<pitti> ack, two week report next week it is :)
<pitti> time for chasing down "OMGcloud images broken"
<cyphermox> suup
<cyphermox> so, are we postponing or what?
<xnox> qui
<robru> oh steve is off, somebody wanna take over this thing?
<pitti> cyphermox: I thought so when 5 mins into the meetting just three people waved
<pitti> apparently more people are coming in now, so we can still have it
<robru> who knows how the bot works?
<pitti> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  1 15:09:16 2016 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pitti> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<pitti> tdaitx pitti bdmurray chiluk slangasek infinity barry doko cyphermox caribou xnox robru sil2100
* pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK security update
<tdaitx> - Further fixes on OpenJDK 6 since now g++ also segfaults when building it on Trusty/arm64
<tdaitx> - Added patches to fix headers with pch disabled
<tdaitx> - Added watch file + repack script
<tdaitx> - Moved package source format to 3.0 (quilt)
<tdaitx> = Helping on -proposed
<tdaitx> - mozart requires autoconf2.13 which generates code that is unusable by gcc 6 (due to a different output from "g++ -E conftest.C"); not sure how to proceed: patch configure, update to newer autoconf (how?), or what?
<tdaitx> - fixing repsnapper FTBFS on powerpc/ppc64el;
<tdaitx>    * replace abs(double) with std::abs(double) - but why does abs(double) works fine on the other archs? (LP: #1619289)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619289 in repsnapper (Ubuntu) "repsnapper FTBFS with gcc6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619289
<tdaitx>    * powerpc/ppc64el missing TCGETS2 - what is the right fix? why is this even needed? (LP: #1619100)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1619100 in repsnapper (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on ppc64el: termios problems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619100
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> - Is it my impression or the builders are taking longer to get stuff from the ppas? Even with free build machines and a free queue it takes quite a while to start.
<tdaitx> (done)
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Move result web UI from gazillions of plain files to sqlite and dynamic page generation, as debci kept running out of inodes and suffered from multi-hour delays. New sqlite+flask app now takes 0.1%(!) of the disk space, 10% of the code, and 30 seconds for each update run.
<pitti>  - Fix "apt-get source" version detection for single-line "Package-List:"
<pitti>  - britney: Implement Testsuite-Triggers:; should hopefully pinpoint regressions better
<pitti> netplan:
<pitti>  - Add support for bonds, VLAN, and wifi with wpasupplicant+networkd (#1616928)
<pitti>  - -Correctly handle DHCP defaults in NM (#1617051)
<pitti>  - Read config from /lib/netplan/ for policies shipped in packages
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - initramfs: Fix rootdelay interpretation (#1615751)
<pitti>  - merges: iptables
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - meeting: Integrate ubuntu system touch tests with the CI train
<pitti>  - meeting: package install in cloud init
<pitti>  - patch pilot shift on Friday
<pitti>  - Learn basics about snapd, file some bugs (#1618198, #1618206, #1618207)
<pitti> END
<pitti> tdaitx: thanks for helping wit -proposed!
<pitti> networking, PPAs, Launchpad publisher etc. all have taken ages for two or three days now
<pitti> indeed it seems the Canonical DC has some trouble
<bdmurray> invetigation into errors when updating HWE stack on Trusty
<bdmurray> reviewed all Xorg HWE stack bug reports
<bdmurray> subscribed teams to Xorg HWE stack packages
<bdmurray> updated 14.04 HWE EoL wiki page w/ references to fglrx deprecation
<tdaitx> pitti, long overdue, trying to catch up now =)
<bdmurray> added fglrx warning to hwe-support-status / update-manager
<bdmurray> updated xorg-server-lts-xenial to conflict w/ fglrx
<bdmurray> SRU verification of LP: #1617080, LP: #1617448
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617080 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "update-manager apport package hook should gather HWE information" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617080
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617448 in xorg-server-lts-xenial (Ubuntu Trusty) "HWE upgrade to lts-xenial stack fails if fglrx is installed" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1617448
<bdmurray> uploaded livecd-rootfs SRU for X for LP: #1561250, LP: #1565985
<bdmurray> reviewed / approved ubuntu-archive-tools mp regarding team changes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1561250 in cloud-images "Xenial vagrant image is missing its hostname in /etc/hosts" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1561250
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1565985 in cloud-images "vagrant vb ubuntu/xenial64 cannot mount synced folders" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1565985
<bdmurray> â done
<cyphermox> chiluk_: ?
<xnox> pass -> see email no?
<cyphermox> ah
<xnox> slangasek, out
<xnox> infinity not on irc
<xnox> barry is also out, no?
<cyphermox> barry isn't around either AFAIK
<doko> barry is away too
<xnox> doko =)
<doko> - gcc-6 and binutils updates
<doko> - gcc Linaro snapshot merge and build, trying to get some transitions done
<doko> - MIR's, FTBFS, cleaning update-excuses
<doko> - openjdk-9 build, forwarding bug reports
<doko> - gdb 7.12
<doko> - llvm toolchain updates
<doko> - some python module updates
<doko> - fight with autopkg testers ...
<doko> - gave back failed builds in yakkety and yakkety-proposed
<doko> - launchpad is slooowwwww
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> grub:
<cyphermox>  - still working on unbreaking grub2 built with binutils 2.27
<cyphermox>  - more testing of IPv6 PXE boot in UEFI and sync with lamont
<cyphermox>  - testing grub builds with binutils 2.26.1
<cyphermox> console-conf:
<cyphermox>  - tweaks for serial/VT console gettys to behave correctly
<cyphermox>  - various bug fixes for inclusion on the snap images
<cyphermox> ubiquity:
<cyphermox>  - testing SRUs including HiDPI scaling fixes and SecureBoot UI
<cyphermox> network-manager:
<cyphermox>  - needs more work for VPN DNS nameservers in split-tunnel mode
<cyphermox> ubuntu-image:
<cyphermox>  - figuring out how this works and fixing up cloud-init preseeding
<cyphermox> (done)
<pitti> I get about 50 kB/s from archive.ubuntu.com (normally about 2.5 MB/s)..
<xnox> actually email was from caribou, not from chiluk....
<cyphermox> pitti: it's not just you
<xnox> short week - monday was a bank holiday
<xnox> finished all the zua feature work for now, all up to date in the ppa
<xnox> helping fixing adt tests in openstack things, to fix s390x regressions (in progress, some will land with b3 uploads)
<xnox> gpg2 -> gpg transition
<xnox> ..
<cyphermox> wha?
<cyphermox> oh, nvm
<pitti> he meant "<-" :)
<cyphermox> he may have meant just dropping the 2.
<pitti> oh, you meant renaming
 * xnox meant just dropping the 2 =)
<cyphermox> wee
<xnox> gpg is now gpg2, gpg2 is now symlink to gpg
<cyphermox> that means I can remove some scripts here.
<pitti> let's all discuss for 15 minutes which direction the arrow should be
 * pitti can kill his ~/bin/gpg symlink \o/
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> now the yubikey GPG magic is a first-class citizen
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - git support (in production but busted pending firewall fixes)
<robru> - ignore no-change rebuilds in dest archive
<robru> - ephemeral PPAs (in production but not usable yet)
<robru> (done)
<pitti> robru: oh, you are trying git clones from a ProdStack instance?
<robru> pitti: git fetching and pushing, but yes
<pitti> robru: (I banged my head on teh wall about that for too long and gave up)
<robru> pitti: is there some secret?
<pitti> robru: I do it in scalingstack instances now
<robru> pitti: there is simply no giving up, we need this
<pitti> PS is too annoyingly paranoid
<cyphermox> robru: "- ignore no-change rebuilds in dest archive"  how do you do that?
<pitti> Laney has discussed something like this with IS for ages
<pitti> no sil2100 either
<robru> cyphermox: we download the DSC of the latest version in trunk's changelog, and then we download the DSC of the latest version in distro, debdiff them, and filterdiff out debian/changelog. if the result is an empty file, we ignore that. if the result has nonzero size, we report the error (preventing publication), and insist the user sync this change back to
<robru> trunk and rebuild.
<cyphermox> ah, right
<pitti> âª where have all the developers gone? long time passing âª â«
* pitti changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<Laney> pitti: robru: If you just need a whitelist of domains, you can get IS to add that for you in squid
<Laney> assuming HTTP
<Laney> for git://, dunno
<robru> Laney: no we specifically need fetching and pushing for git+ssh
<tdaitx> so, any easy way to deal with a package that requires autoconf-2.13 when that autoconf generates stuff don't work on gcc6?
<pitti> tdaitx: ugh, 2.*13*?
<pitti> I didn't know that dinosaurs were still alive :)
<tdaitx> yeah, the package/project has not seem an update in quite a few years
<pitti> (autoconf 2.13 released in 1998 :) )
<pitti> tdaitx: remove-package ?
<tdaitx> you tell me =)
<pitti> oh dear, firefox and thunderbird use it
<pitti> they didn't even exist yet when 2.13 was already obsolete..
<pitti> tdaitx: so, I'm afraid everything will be "not easy" at this point :(
<Laney> does it really require 2.13?
<pitti> tdaitx: best might be to not run autoconf2.13 at boot, but have a good old debian/patches/99_autotools.pathc with the pregenerated stuff
<Laney> convert to something more modern :)
<pitti> tdaitx: and then maybe some extra 99.1_autoconf2.13_quirks.patch to fiddle with Makefile.in to work with gcc-6
<pitti> but obviously, converting to 2.50 is best ;)
<tdaitx> well, I can't regenerate anything there with a newer autoconf, I would have to update it
<pitti> regenerate with 2.13, I mean
<pitti> tdaitx: which package are we talknig about, btw?
<tdaitx> pitti, mozart
<pitti> we should at least yell at  upstream about that
<pitti> this is like "don't build me"
<tdaitx> pitti, meh, I was stupid to trust the launchpad page, it says "Mozart â Content Management Framework based on JAVA.", but control file has "Mozart Programming System"
<tdaitx> the programming system is now at mozart 2.0, 1.4 is not being used any longer
<tdaitx> the mozart content management framework is dead, doesn't even have a project page any longer
<pitti> any other business?
<pitti> let's formally close this
<pitti> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  1 15:34:34 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-01-15.09.moin.txt
<pitti> tdaitx: and mozart has no reverse dependencies, so removal candidate
<tdaitx> pitti, agreed
<pitti> tdaitx: except that it does not actually build-depend on autoconf2.13
<tdaitx> pitti, it does not because that is not run during the build, it reuses the pre-generated stuff
<robru> pitti: wait, you said git clone is impossible from prodstack? I do it already in staging instance!
<elacheche_anis> o/
<pavlushka> elacheche_anis o/
<elacheche_anis> Hey pavlushka :)
<pavlushka> Hello elacheche_anis :)
<dipraw> um here!:-)
<elacheche_anis> We start in a sec.. We wait to see if we have the quorum :)
<Kilos> hi guys
<Kilos> hi dipraw pavlushka
<elacheche_anis> dipraw: o/
<dipraw> hi kilos :-D
<NaSb> Hello Kilos i'm here :)
<popey> o/
<dipraw> i am dipraw, from Dhaka Bangladesh
<pavlushka> popey: o/
<Kilos> hi NaSb
<elacheche_anis> dipraw: hello, we start in a sec :)
<zaki> o/
<dipraw> okay! :-)
<pavlushka> hello from Bangladesh NaSb zaki dipraw nawaf walrider :)
<walrider> im walrider from dhaka Bangladesh
<nawaf> hello there :)
<walrider> hi all
<Kilos> hi nawaf
<dipraw> hello again to all of u!
<nawaf> hello kilos :)
<NaSb> Ping from Gazipur,Bangladesh
<Kilos> mr chair are you ready?
<iulian> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep  1 20:06:16 2016 UTC.  The chair is iulian. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<iulian> #voters popey elacheche_anis Kilos iulian
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos elacheche_anis iulian popey
<iulian> #voter ahoneybun
<iulian> #voters ahoneybun
<meetingology> Current voters: Kilos ahoneybun elacheche_anis iulian popey
<ahoneybun> heyo all
<ahoneybun> sorry about that
<Kilos> hi ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> hey Kilos
<pavlushka> hello ahoneybun :)
<ahoneybun> hey pavlushka
<pavlushka> Hello iulian :)
<dipraw> hey ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> lots of people today
<dipraw> hi*
<ahoneybun> heyo dipraw
<Kilos> ty for chairing iulian
<iulian> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board meeting!
<walrider> ty very much
<walrider> happy to be here
<iulian> Apparently we just have one applicant so this should be quick.
<iulian> Hello pavlushka.
<dipraw> it's a pleasure!
<dipraw> okay
<pavlushka> Hello iulian :)
<iulian> pavlushka: Would you mind telling us a bit about yourself?
<Kilos> wait
<Kilos> oh sorry im slow
<Kilos> go ahead pavlushka
<pavlushka> iulian: sure, I am S. M. Pavel Sayekat from Bangladesh.
<pavlushka> my LP is https://launchpad.net/~pavelsayekat
<pavlushka> and my wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/pavelsayekat
<iulian> Is there anyone here who wants to show their support for Pavel?
<NaSb> Yes count me in :)
<iulian> Hi there NaSb.
 * elacheche_anis supports pavlushka
<nawaf> me too
<walrider> #voteforpavl
 * pavlushka nods
<zaki> hey iulian here i'm supporting pavlushka
 * Kilos supports pavlushka
<walrider> im supporting pavlushka
<dipraw> #voteforpavlushka
<elacheche_anis> walrider: that'll not work :)
<iulian> Yay!
<iulian> Cool, thanks everyone.
<walrider> whats the command iulian ?
<dipraw> i also vote for pavlushla
<elacheche_anis> walrider: only iulian can use the command
<nawaf> he is always willing to help others, i am supporting pavlushka
<walrider> oh ok
<walrider> i am supporting pavlushka
<dipraw> pavlushka is always eager to help
<dipraw> and he haven't let me down till now
<popey> pavlushka: http://imgur.com/a/ElsL9 was nice to see!
<popey> flexiondotorg: ^ Ubuntu MATE in a small business in Bangladesh
<walrider> pavlushka 100% dedicated and always eager to help other
 * ahoneybun thinks popey is bias in his love of MATE
<pavlushka> like to mention my irc contributions http://paste.ubuntu.com/23121519/
<Kilos> lol
<popey> ahoneybun: I love all ubuntu flavours :)
<dipraw> ha ha ha
<pavlushka> and http://paste.ubuntu.com/23121528/
<popey> pavlushka: what's the next big thing for you?
<pavlushka> thanks popey I am overwhelmed :)
<popey> What big project would you like to take on?
<pavlushka> popey: The LoCo and its site
<pavlushka> to revive
<ahoneybun> loco.ubuntu.com?
<pavlushka> BD LoCo
<popey> Awesome. I watched a TV programme about Bangladesh last night, looks like a beautiful place.
<pavlushka> Bangladesh
<ahoneybun> oh your LoCo
<pavlushka> yes ahoneybun :)
<pavlushka> sorry for incomplete drafting of irc logs :(
<iulian> Okey dokey. Thank you very much for your answers pavlushka.
<iulian> I think we are now ready to vote.
<popey> pavlushka: it's fine, most people don't provide all those irc logs, it's fun to read :)
<iulian> #vote pavlushka for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: pavlushka for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<elacheche_anis> +1 Keep the good work pavlushka :)
<meetingology> +1 Keep the good work pavlushka :) received from elacheche_anis
<iulian> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from iulian
<ahoneybun> +1 always for LoCo work
<meetingology> +1 always for LoCo work received from ahoneybun
<AudaciousTUX> -1
<walrider> +1
<Kilos> +1 Keep it up lad, you are doing great work
<meetingology> +1 Keep it up lad, you are doing great work received from Kilos
<elacheche_anis> Just for the records, wxl and belkinsa voted +1 as well.. :)
<NaSb> +1 from NaSb
<elacheche_anis> NaSb: only board members can vote :)
<dipraw> vote for pavlushla
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<iulian> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: pavlushka for Ubuntu membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Kilos> only membership board can vote guys
<popey> excellent contributions pavlushla! Thank you!
<walrider> +1
<pavlushka> and we have AudaciousTUX from Bangladesh too :)
<elacheche_anis> Congrats pavlushka :)
<iulian> Congratulations pavlushka and welcome aboard!
<popey> \o/
<Kilos> congrats pavlushka welcome on board
<ahoneybun> sweet stuff pavlushka
<popey> Thanks to those who came to support pavlushka too :)
 * pavlushka nods to all
<walrider> congrats from dhaka
 * pavlushka thanking all for their support :)
<dipraw> congratulations!!!!!!! bro!!!
<iulian> That's all folks. Thanks very much for attending, especially the guys who showed their support for pavlushka!
<iulian> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep  1 20:21:19 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-09-01-20.06.moin.txt
<Kilos> thanks for chairing iulian and thanks board members
<popey> \o/
<popey> nice one
<dipraw> yeah thanks to all! :-D
<walrider> GG
<NaSb> Thanks all of you Board members :)
<Kilos> we are here to serve
<nawaf> thank you everyone for being here :)
<Kilos> and normally give applicants a hard time
<pavlushka> lol @ Kilos
<pavlushka> missing belkinsa
<Kilos> yip
<dipraw> and yeah i guess i didn't mix up this time!!!
<pavlushka> dipraw: really?
<dipraw> did i?
<dipraw> :/
<pavlushka> dipraw: ok, you did good :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-28
<sil2100> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<BenC> o/
<micahg> o/
<cpaelzer> I don't know all you geographies, but given that there seems to be a UK public holiday at least rbasak might be missing
<bdmurray> o/
<BenC> Not sure if anyoneâs in USA-TX, but that may also affect availability.
<cyphermox> I don't think anyone is
<sil2100> We have at least 4 members, so that's good enough to start I suppose?
<tsimonq2> But wait... that's quorum, no?
<tsimonq2> sil2100: jinx :)
<cyphermox> quorum is 4, indeed.
<cyphermox> but you can't count me, I expired.
<sil2100> + cyphermox, but he's ekhm, expired :<
<cyphermox> we can address that and voting for DMB membership at the end no?
<sil2100> Yeah
<sil2100> Ok, I guess I'll chair today
<sil2100> #startmeeting DMB
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 28 15:05:25 2017 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> I only see one previous action item on the agenda: "rbasak to handle flexiondotorg's request for adding mate-hud to the MATE package set"
<sil2100> Not sure if rbasak is around today
<bdmurray> I thought he had a follow up question that went unanswered.
<cpaelzer> he is one of the UK people with public holiday today
<sil2100> Ah, ok
<cpaelzer> But flexiondotorg is added according to ubuntu-upload-permission
<cpaelzer> $ ubuntu-upload-permission mate-hud --list-uploaders
<sil2100> cpaelzer: thanks
<sil2100> I think we also had one meeting where meetingology wasn't working, not sure if we captured those action items in the agenda
<sil2100> Ah, yes, we did
<sil2100> "sil2100 to send out a DMB nomination reminder, including information about what happens if there are few nominations."
<sil2100> This is done and we got one more nomination for LocutusOfBorg
<sil2100> We'll talk about that at the end of the meeting
<sil2100> "bdmurray follow up with BenC regarding meeting times"
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> bdmurray, BenC: ^ did that happen?
<rbasak> Sorry I'm late.
<sil2100> rbasak: o/ hey! No worries, there is quorum
<sil2100> Actually, all active members are present now, nice
<bdmurray> sil2100: Yes it did
<rbasak> It's a public holiday here today. I lost track of the time :-/
<BenC> It did. I conveyed that I am open to whatever times, but during work hours (current meetings are 11am and 3pm) things can come up that make it difficult to attend.
<sil2100> Excellent
<cpaelzer> rbasak: you were excused, I made sure everyone knew that you have a public holiday
<sil2100> Ok, so let's move on
<sil2100> We have a few applicants, some mentioned doing their applications through e-mail
<sil2100> tsimonq2 I guess you're available now, right?
<rbasak> FWIW, I'd much prefer to handle applications in our regular meetings if possible.
<tsimonq2> Yeahp.
<tsimonq2> (I didn't think I would be, fwiw)
<sil2100> rbasak: +1
<cpaelzer> I didn't want to break the process either, if there ever is the "need" to do per mail pelase say so
<sil2100> Ok, since tsimonq2's application was supposed to be earlier, I'd say let's start here
<micahg> we've sometimes offered applicants who were bumped to apply by mail, but it usually ends up dragging out past the next meeting, so it doesn't make sense to continue doing so
<micahg> bumped due to no quorum
<sil2100> #topic MOTU Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: MOTU Applications
<sil2100> #subtopic Simon Quigley
<sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tsimonq2/Applications/MOTU
<sil2100> tsimonq2: could you introduce yourself? :)
<tsimonq2> Hi, my name is Simon Quigley, I'm a 15 year old living in Wisconsin, USA, and I've been an Ubuntu Member for 2.5 years now (I help with stuff like UWN and Lubuntu Release Management, and a couple more things). I have wanted to apply for MOTU for a while, but the documentation was (and quite frankly still is, Kubuntu was a big help) too poor to get me started.
<tsimonq2> For reference: Launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> Let me know if you have any questions. :)
<sil2100> (I'll need a minute to read your application as I only prepared for cpaelzer's case today)
<tsimonq2> Ok :)
<rbasak> tsimonq2: you mean the documentation to apply for MOTU, or to become active with MOTU, or something else?
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Well, the Packaging Guide and some wiki pages associated with it use a lot of outdated syntax (like, bzr stuff)
<rbasak> Ah,  I see. So documentation on generally doing packaging work?
<tsimonq2> rbasak: Very confusing if you're a contributor knowing nothing about the Ubuntu development side of things
<rbasak> I appreciate that's a mess atm.
<tsimonq2> Yeah.
<tsimonq2> I didn't say anything when mitya57 said something on the mailing list (but should have, I have an active interest in updating it)
<rbasak> FTR, I'm focusing on "git ubuntu" as the future recommended and documented way of doing things.
<rbasak> Hopefully that'll avoid much of the cruft.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: I hope so too :)
<tsimonq2> Git is really really nice.
<sil2100> Anyway, in the meantime, feel free to ask tsimonq2 questions
<tsimonq2> But we can follow up later or another day about that... my point is, the documentation for new contributors is not as up-to-date as it should be.
 * rbasak is catching up with the application
 * BenC is as well
<bdmurray> tsimonq2: You say that you could be a bit more patient. How does your impatience appear in your work?
<sil2100> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=simon+Quigley&sponsoree_search=name <- sponsorship miner lookup
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: So, every day I learn new tricks for my workflow, but there have been times (non security updates or SRUs, I test those heavily) where I've done iterations on a fix and then "just submitted" to my sponsor because I know they'll run it through sbuild/pbuild, and then they'll find mistakes because I wasn't patient enough to let sbuild finish... :P
<micahg> I notice that a lot of the recent merges don't seem to close tracking bugs in launchpad
<BenC> tsimonq2: To quote Adam Conrad âpbuild is not a test bedâ :)
<tsimonq2> (it's also a point to make that nowadays I'll often upload it to ppa:tsimonq2/universe-upload-testing and let it build there, then have $sponsor trigger autopkgtests so I can test those, that seems like a decent workflow)
<bdmurray> tsimonq2: But if you have upload rights won't the $sponsor part be gone?
<tsimonq2> bdmurray: But then I can trigger those tests myself, no?
<BenC> Yeah, youâll need to move that part of your workflow locally given the removal of the stop-gap that being in MOTU provides.
<tsimonq2> Sure, I should put the same amount of effort in testing (i.e. build it locally, etc.) as with SRUs and security updates.
<tsimonq2> I have the workflow (all of the tools set up (<3 sbuild)) but it's just a matter of making 100% sure that it works.
<tsimonq2> But yeah, that won't be a hard thing to do.
<rbasak> tsimonq2: can you upload anything already without sponsorship? Or would MOTU be the first?
<tsimonq2> rbasak: MOTU would be the first
<rbasak> OK
<tsimonq2> (well, with the exception of Kubuntu Backports PPAs, but that's a different thing)
<tsimonq2> (and that's not technically the archive)
<rbasak> Can you give us some examples of when it would not be suitable to upload something please? For example if someone is asking you for sponsorship, what might you consider?
<tsimonq2>  1. What does the Ubuntu delta look like? (my sponsors have been really big in helping me reduce those)
<tsimonq2>  2. Does it build?
<tsimonq2>  3. Is the diff/needed changes correct?
<tsimonq2> I won't want to upload something that should go to Debian (trivial things like Standards-version bumps, etc.) unless there's circumstances that justify it
<rbasak> Good answers, thanks. What about Ubuntu's release cycle? What are the events in the release cycle that might need consideration before upload?
<tsimonq2> Feature Freeze
<tsimonq2> That goshdarn Feature Freeze :P
<rbasak> Any others?
<tsimonq2> But yeah, just in general anything on here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> How might you determine if a particular package's bugfix you're about to upload is affected by a beta milestone freeze?
<BenC> And have you ever stopped yourself from uploading based on these conditions, or has it always been a sponsor guiding you? What instances have you self regulated your upload in light of the conditions/schedule?
<tsimonq2> rbasak: By looking at #ubuntu-release (which should, in theory, have it in the topic) - but to be honest, I usually assume that if images are spun up for the milestone (Monday, Tuesday *maybe*) that devel is frozen until the release of that milestone.
<tsimonq2> (which should happen, no?)
<rbasak> Unseeded packages are unaffected by image testing. But if you want to be more cautious than that, then that's fine :)
<sil2100> tsimonq2: as for me, a quick question - could you tell me briefly what's the difference between universe and multiverse in Ubuntu?
<tsimonq2> sil2100: MOTUs both have upload permissions for Universe and Multiverse, and Multiverse are packages with some sort of licensing issue (msttcorefonts (I think I spelled that wrong) for example), while Universe is Free-As-In-Open-Source packages.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: To be fair, a lot of things I have to upload at that time are in one of those packagesets :P
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> No more questions from me
<sil2100> tsimonq2: I guess BenC had one question there for you as well ^
<tsimonq2> BenC: No, to be honest, because there hasn't been a need to (I've done the majority of my uploads in non-FeatureFreeze devels and Stable Releases)
<micahg> tsimonq2: are you done with the upload once you (or your sponsor) dput to the archive?
<tsimonq2> micahg: Nope
<tsimonq2> micahg: Britney <3
<tsimonq2> micahg: This is a cool little page, I don't use it for the content (as much, nice autopkgtest syntax) but it has excuses and output links: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration
<tsimonq2> micahg: (when I say "Britney" I mean, make sure it migrates from -proposed)
<rbasak> I have no further questions, thanks.
<micahg> So, I noticed that nodejs was uploaded on 8/17 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nodejs/6.11.2~dfsg-2ubuntu1) and is still stuck, have you done any work on this? still stuck
<micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#nodejs
<tsimonq2> micahg: Yep, fails autopkgtest, it's on my todolist to look into
<tsimonq2> (i.e. it's rdeps do, I remember that without looking at the page)
<BenC> tsimonq2: At this point, do you feel you would be able to mentor someone into starting with MOTU?
<tsimonq2> BenC: Yes, and I have already.
<BenC> Excellent, thatâs all I have.
<sil2100> Any other questions?
<sil2100> We have one more applicant so I'd like us to get on to voting
<sil2100> #vote Grant tsimonq2 MOTU
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant tsimonq2 MOTU
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<micahg> +0 a lot of great work, but I'd like to see a little more focus on shepherding things through proposed, especially things with a lot of rdeps like nodejs
<meetingology> +0 a lot of great work, but I'd like to see a little more focus on shepherding things through proposed, especially things with a lot of rdeps like nodejs received from micahg
<tsimonq2> micahg: Fair, thanks :)
<sil2100> +1 (I am fairly satisfied with Simon's work so far, he's still learning the ropes but to me it's sufficient for MOTU)
<meetingology> +1 (I am fairly satisfied with Simon's work so far, he's still learning the ropes but to me it's sufficient for MOTU) received from sil2100
<BenC> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from BenC
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant tsimonq2 MOTU
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> tsimonq2: congratulations!
<tsimonq2> :D
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<tsimonq2> \o/
<micahg> tsimonq2: congrats
<cpaelzer> gz tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> :D
<sil2100> tsimonq2: just remember, keep working on attention to detail and be sure not to leave packages rotting in -proposed!
<tsimonq2> micahg: Like I said before, thanks for the review, I understand where you're coming from :)
<tsimonq2> sil2100: Ok, thanks :)
<sil2100> #action sil2100 to add tsimonq2 to MOTU and send announcements
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add tsimonq2 to MOTU and send announcements
<sil2100> #topic Core Developer Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: Core Developer Applications
<sil2100> #subtopic Christian Ehrhardt
<cpaelzer> Hello everybody
<sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianEhrhardt/CoreDevApplication
<sil2100> cpaelzer: please, introduce yourself o/
<flexiondotorg> tsimonq2 Congratulations! Well deserved :-)
<cpaelzer> Hi, my name is Christian Ehrhardt
<cpaelzer> I'm 36 and working on Ubuntu as a main job for about 2 years now
<cpaelzer> formerly an active user working on Linux on Mainframes
<cpaelzer> which I still work on sometimes now for the server team that Im in
<sil2100> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=christian+Ehrhardt&sponsoree_search=name <- sponsorship miner lookup
<cpaelzer> Being on the Server Team my daily tasks mostly focus around the virtualization stack qemu/libvirt and all its deps
<cpaelzer> more on dpdk/openvswitch
<cpaelzer> but many more
<cpaelzer> as there just are a lot of things distributed on (now) 4 people
<cpaelzer> among others I also took over postrges from pitti when he left for example (together with nacc)
<cpaelzer> there is so much more, not sure what to add
<cpaelzer> default family setup - wife, 2 kids
<rbasak> FTR, cpaelzer's application seems a bit thin on endorsements; I'd be happy to add mine.
<cpaelzer> thanks rbasak, since I move through the applications rather quickly over the time I wanted to make sure I ahve different people every time
<cpaelzer> so on motu / on ppu / on core dev
<bdmurray> cpaelzer: Did you ask nacc for an endorsement?
<cpaelzer> I didn't want the same names every time or you'd tihnk I just have a few people pushing me
<cpaelzer> no because he would be "too close" for the same reason I didn't ask rbasak
<cpaelzer> I believe in cross team endoresments carrying more weight
<rbasak> cpaelzer is a colleague of mine. It's a pain that he isn't a core dev. Every so often we get blocked by something because he can't upload (or change a seed or whatever). Every time I've unblocked by sponsoring, cpaelzer's proposal has been correct and diligently formed.
<sil2100> cpaelzer: I'll maybe ask the usual question - how would becoming a core dev make things easier for you and others?
<sil2100> Oh, I see rbasak partially answered that ;)
<cpaelzer> sil2100: well he has to some extend
<cpaelzer> the point is - I'm not in foundations and upload core-dev things every day - surely not
<cpaelzer> but
<cpaelzer> growing into more and more ubuntu experience it happens more often to be blocked on a core-dev thing here and there
<cpaelzer> enought to qualify for the application we concluded a while ago
<nacc> I can also add mine (sorry, was afk for a moment) (my endorsement for cpaelzer)
<rbasak> I've been asking cpaelzer to keep a list of blocked-because-not-core-dev things. IIRC, seed changes, bind9 and samba at least?
<cpaelzer> I tracked 10 direct uploads from 24th March to 7th july that would have been core-dev tasks
<cpaelzer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25418221/
<cpaelzer> I might have forgotten one
<cpaelzer> but that is on the line to be often enough to kind of bottle-neck us more than it feels good
<cpaelzer> which is the pain rbasak mentions
<cpaelzer> and in any way this isn't about blindly pushing uploads all the time - I think we are all over that - it is about being able to do so when needed
<cpaelzer> and in terms of extra core dev tasks like piloting I'm already active (yet on the smaller subset so far)
<rbasak> So I'd probably best abstain from this vote especially as everyone else is here. As I work with cpaelzer closely I know him well and so have no questions.
<rbasak> I'm happy to answer questions in respect of my endorsement of him of course.
<BenC> rbalint: If you were to vote, I assume it woukd be +1?
<BenC> *rbasak
<rbasak> BenC: indeed
<sil2100> rbasak: I don't think you should abstain, there's no rule saying this is a bad thing - you have good understanding of his work so I don't see any reason not to
<sil2100> I wouldn't like people to think about votes being 'biased' or something
<rbasak> sil2100: I'll vote if needed to break a tie or achieve quroum.
<sil2100> Makes sense
<sil2100> cpaelzer: besides the work you mentioned, did you have any opportunity to do out-of-team work on +1 maintenance tasks?
<rbasak> Technically I suppose that's not abstaining at all because by definition if I only vote to break a tie that's the only case my vote would matter anyway. Never mind!
<sil2100> Like, helping with trensitions, resolving NBSes?
<sil2100> *transitions
<cpaelzer> ah thanks, I was about to ask :-)
<cpaelzer> in smaller parts I meet transitions in the virt stack every cycle, but havn't pushed a full scale transition like a toolchain
<cpaelzer> I worked with nacc postgresql
<cpaelzer> which will likely next cycle meet such a transition
<sil2100> Ok
<cpaelzer> NBS I met in some sense
<sil2100> cpaelzer: while we're at it, do you know what an NBS is and how one can potentially resolve it?
<cpaelzer> the one that lib versions disappear - that was a big issue in DPDK (crazy soname handling - bleieve me)
<cpaelzer> the outcome of that was that I eventually drove a change upstream that allows downstreams to define a major ABI (a bit like libboost)
<cpaelzer> that is not adapted by Debian and Ubuntu and it seems other Distros soon
<cpaelzer> sil2100: on your follow on questison now ...
<cpaelzer> while resolving often has a lot more details, the "main" part is to get all rdeps updated and no more depending on the old one
<cpaelzer> NBS can be more than soname drops thou
<cpaelzer> I didn't face the upstream-rename case yet
<cpaelzer> in most cases eventually the NBS has to be removed
<cpaelzer> to avoid carrying an unmaintained old version along
<cpaelzer> and avoid people still e.g. building against it
<cpaelzer> but as I said many things depend on the case
<cpaelzer> in general I do not pretend to know *all* things a core-dev does, but "asking when you are not sure" is a wise habit no matter of the approved devloper level
<cpaelzer> there always will be one extra thing you haven't seen/done before
<sil2100> cpaelzer: good enough for me, thanks ;)
 * sil2100 is in another meeting now so context-switching
<cpaelzer> sorry, didn't want to drag this over the allocated time
<cpaelzer> other questions?
<cpaelzer> I hope we didn't loose all others due to passing the hour ... oO
<bdmurray> not from me
<sil2100> Ok, any other questions? Or should we move to voting?
<sil2100> I guess not!
<sil2100> Let's vote
<sil2100> #vote Grant cpaelzer core-dev
<meetingology> Please vote on: Grant cpaelzer core-dev
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<rbasak> BenC: ?
<bdmurray> sil2100: did you want to vote?
<sil2100> +1 (I'm a bit worried about the not much all-around-Ubuntu work, but his experience and work so far is sufficient for core-dev rights anyway)
<meetingology> +1 (I'm a bit worried about the not much all-around-Ubuntu work, but his experience and work so far is sufficient for core-dev rights anyway) received from sil2100
 * micahg just wanted to add a reminder to use -v when uploading merges to get the full changelog diff
<sil2100> (sorry, hard being at two meetings at once)
<cpaelzer> micahg: fair, that was a "personal lessons" learned on double uploads to SRUs about 2 months ago
<cpaelzer> in general on any fault - no one is perfect let me know and I'll adapt as good as possible
 * rbasak files bug 1713530
<ubottu> bug 1713530 in usd-importer ""git ubuntu build" doesn't use -v for merges" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713530
<cpaelzer> micahg: I think I see your point on merges in that regard - to list the Debian-changes in between - is that correct?
<micahg> cpaelzer: yep
<cpaelzer> rbasak: you are good I can close my current window reporting just that :-)
<rbasak> :-)
<rbasak> IMHO the fact that uploaders have to remember all these arbitrary rules is a problem :)
<cpaelzer> I add an example to the bugs that matches the case micahg mentioned
<rbasak> Our git workflow "knows" what's going on so should be able to do it automatically now I think.
<tsimonq2> rbasak: true, again, documentation :P
<micahg> yeah, it would be nice if the tools did it
<cpaelzer> documention is what is ignored or forgottern
<cpaelzer> tools win clearly
<nacc> cpaelzer: rbasak: thank you
<rbasak> BenC: vote?
<micahg> well, I'm in favor of the people knowing and the tools doing, it's good to know what's going on behind the scenes, at least what's directly related to what one is doing
<micahg> otherwise, one can't know if the tool is doing the right thing :)
<rbasak> In general I agree. In this case, it's an implementation detail though. I don't know exactly how Launchpad or britney is implemented either.
<rbasak> In time, I'd like to see dput replaced with git. Completely.  At that point, debian/changelog would be moot, and so -v would be also.
<rbasak> Until then, I agree that uploaders need to know these things. But I'm not proud of that fact :-/
<cpaelzer> I hope we didn't loose BenC :-/
<rbasak> I said I'd vote to achieve quorum if needed.
<rbasak> If we assume that quorum is still four (I'm not sure it is but that's another discussion), and we appear to have lost BenC, then I can vote to settle this.
<sil2100> rbasak: please do
<sil2100> I guess he's out ;)
<rbasak> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
<sil2100> (I'd assume so since 30 minutes over the meeting time might mean that)
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant cpaelzer core-dev
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> cpaelzer: congratulations! (took longer than we expected ;p)
<cpaelzer> Thank you!
<sil2100> Since I'm handling tsimonq2, I'll pick up this cpaelzer as well as it's a quick thing to do
<sil2100> #action sil2100 to add cpaelzer to core-dev and send announcements
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add cpaelzer to core-dev and send announcements
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<tsimonq2> Thanks again :D
<sil2100> So I guess let's just quickly touch base on our DMB expired members
<sil2100> We have 2 seats free and 3 candidates, we need to set up the vote mechanism
<sil2100> Could someone take care of that
<sil2100> ?
<sil2100> rbasak, bdmurray, micahg: ^ ?
<sil2100> I originally wanted to volunteer, but I see now that I have a bit much for this week, would be worried that it'd get delayed because of that
<bdmurray> sil2100: I can fit it in
<sil2100> bdmurray: that would be excellent, thanks!
<sil2100> From other things: please take a look at Balint's e-mail application
<sil2100> (hasting here since we're past our meeting time)
<sil2100> Ok, anything else or can we wrap?
<sil2100> WRAP! BLAM
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 28 16:39:51 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-28-15.05.moin.txt
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
<tsimonq2> Congrats cpaelzer :)
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<sil2100> It's so nice having such lively meetings
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> tsimonq2, cpaelzer: I'll try to handle your permission-addition today still, but in case I get context switched this might slide till tomorrow
<sil2100> Hope that's ok
<tsimonq2> sil2100: Ok, thanks!
<micahg> thanks sil2100 for running that marathon meeting
<tyhicks> fyi, the security team meeting was moved to #ubuntu-meeting-2 if anyone is here for that
<rbasak> tyhicks: thank you for sorting that out
<tyhicks> no problem
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-29
<slashd> rbasak, I see you are chairing the server team meeting today, I'll be absent, it's my kids first day of school.
<rbasak> slashd: noted, thanks!
<teward> *waves*
<teward> rbasak: finally got my chance to chair last week :P
<cpaelzer> o/
<smoser> you all are earluy
<smoser> early even.
<teward> problem?  :)
<smoser> i guess not.
<cpaelzer> last chance to talk outside of the log that is sent to the world smoser
<cpaelzer> well the server lgos anyway, but it is not sent explicitly
<ahasenack> o/
<nacc> o/
<cpaelzer> re-o/
<smb> o/
<powersj> o/
<dpb1> hi
<rbasak> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 29 16:00:31 2017 UTC.  The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<rbasak> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<rbasak> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rbasak> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rbasak> * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<rbasak> I still need to carry over mine
<rbasak> nacc?
<cpaelzer> well we are short of next release notes now
<nacc> rbasak: carry :/
<nacc> i'll try and actually do it this week
<cpaelzer> "close to" I meant
<rbasak> #action nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rbasak> #action nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<rbasak> #action rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<rbasak> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<rbasak> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<rbasak> #subtopic Current Work
<rbasak> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<rbasak> #info Feature freeze has hit, so bugfixes only now
<rbasak> Any planned FFEs?
<rbasak> I see ahasenack's squid3 merge has landed - thanks!
<cpaelzer> yeah
<cpaelzer> I plan FFE on slof
<ahasenack> just in time :)
<rbasak> #info cpaelzer plans an FFe for slof
<rbasak> Anything else for current work for Artful?
<cpaelzer> reasoning for the slof FFE (among others) is bug 1706248
<ubottu> bug 1706248 in slof (Ubuntu) "SLOF dhcp request doesn't include client architecture code 93" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1706248
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer!
<rbasak> #subtopic Release Bugs
<rbasak> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<rbasak> Any bugs for release that need attention?
<rbasak> #info No bugs were called out for specific attention
<rbasak> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<chiluk> I plan an ffe on haproxy.
<rbasak> slashd sent his apologies. I'm not sure if ddstreet is taking this topic, or we should skip it?
<rbasak> #info chiluk plans an FFe for haproxy
<rbasak> Thanks chiluk!
<ahasenack> chiluk: for the reload bit?
<chiluk> yep
<ddstreet> rbasak nothing from me or slashd as far as i know
<chiluk> I tried to get it finished last week, but things just didn't happen.
<rbasak> Thanks ddstreet!
<rbasak> #info No updates on this topic from slashd or ddstreet
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Last week got mirroring of Launchpad recipe build results into our jenkins and attended the cloud-init summit.
<powersj> This week more cloud-init work on generic integration tests
<powersj> questions comments?
<rbasak> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<rbasak> #info Last week got mirroring of Launchpad recipe build results into our jenkins and attended the cloud-init summit.
<cpaelzer> I wanted to add on the testing
<rbasak> #info This week more cloud-init work on generic integration tests
<cpaelzer> I analyzed the current failing cases on the server jenkisn virt cases  - all are current known cases and I hope to resolve them by fixing up artful
<cpaelzer> but I have a reglar schedule to check and improve so it will converge on green at some point in time
<powersj> o/ woohoo thanks cpaelzer
<rbasak> #info cpaelzer analyzed the current failing cases on the server jenkins virt cases. All are current known cases and he hopes to resolve them by fixing up artful
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer and powersj!
<rbasak> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Nothing new from kernel directly, but I had a few things outside kernel which I wanted to mention:
<smb>  One is that we observed some test failures of ubuntu-fan on
<smb>   s390x. The reasons for those I suspect beyond fan or kernel.
<smb>   I believe this is because I set up the two guests which show
<smb>   issues, using netplan. The result is that resolv.conf now
<smb>   only has systemd-resolvd as nameserver. And I suspect, but
<smb>   no proof yet, that for some reason that maybe rejects queries
<smb>   issued from within docker (and maybe lxc, too) containers.
<smb>   I would file a LP bug if this is not something known already.
<smb> - Second, flashcache: thats a (dkms) package which used to
<smb>   provide some way to add a SSD/NVMe cache to a spinning block
<rbasak> #info Nothing new from kernel directly
<smb>   device (mostly like bcache but without adding meta-data
<smb>   anywhere). It is no longer comiling with 4.12/4.13 kernels,
<smb>   which actually is a good thing. Problem is this is abandoned
<smb>   upstream and when I "fixed" the compile to work with some
<smb>   pretty heavy upstream kernel changes, I actually converted
<smb>   it into a complicated /dev/null for any kernel between 4.8
<smb>   and 4.11. So plan is to pretty soon make it not compile at
<rbasak> #info some observed some test failures of ubuntu-fan on s390x
<smb>   all for those kernels. If there is some documentation any-
<smb>   where which should be updated, please let me know. Does
<smb>   not need to be here.
<smb> Ok, thats all I had. Are there any other questions?
<xnox> smb, is ubuntu-fan at all supported, since i did not think we ever released anything for z with ubuntu-fan support?
<rbasak> #info flashcache: thats a (dkms) package which used to provide some way to add a SSD/NVMe cache to a spinning block device: no longer compiling
<xnox> smb, and no, nothing of the sort is known yet. Then again I do not believe anybody has tried using ubuntu-fan on s390x.
<smb> xnox, its a generic package and the smoke test was working before
<xnox> smb, my understanding it was aws specific, yet the reason for ubuntu-fan is now moot.
<smb> xnox, also note that I do not think its a problem of the package
<xnox> ack,
<smb> xnox, its failing because docker cannot resolve dns names
<xnox> smb, finding and fixing bugs is always good. and docker not doing resolvy things sounds bad.
<smb> xnox, ack, so I will file something soonish and subscribe you to it for the know
<rbasak> Thanks smb and xnox!
<cpaelzer> ah smb you remember I mentioned https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2017-08/msg05286.html
<cpaelzer> It seems to be to "only" be queued to 4.14 and -stable
<smb> cpaelzer, I remember you mentioned it but I might have blanked for what reason
<cpaelzer> but the impact of this could be huge, so you probably want that on release instead of SRU'ing later
<cpaelzer> TL;DR Bug, solution is disable empty zero-page for KVm on s390x
<cpaelzer> which on a bunch of guests not fully using their mem can be quite a lot of extra mem
<sforshee> cpaelzer: best thing to do is file a bug and subscribe me
<cpaelzer> but the assumption is that real guests over time consume (cache) all their mem anyway
<cpaelzer> I'll do so sforshee
<sforshee> cpaelzer: actually just assign it to me
<cpaelzer> it was only heads up before, but yeah a bug might be good at this point
<smb> Ah I was about to say something like that. Or submit the patch as [unstable] ... to kernel-team mailing list
<smb> but bug reports are alway a good thing to remember stuff at that stage
<rbasak> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<rbasak> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<rbasak> #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<rbasak> I see that the deadline for this is #link http://www.open-zfs.org/wiki/OpenZFS_Developer_Summit
<rbasak> Uh, Sep 4, 2017
<rbasak> Any other CfPs to mention?
<rbasak> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<rbasak> Any upcoming events?
<rbasak> #info No upcoming events were mentioned
<rbasak> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<rbasak> AOB?
<rbasak> #info No further discussion
<rbasak> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<rbasak> #info Next meeting: Tue  5 Sep 16:00:00 UTC 2017
<rbasak> #info smoser will chair
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 29 16:21:38 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-29-16.00.moin.txt
<powersj> thanks rbasak!
<ahasenack> thanks rbasak
<cpaelzer> Thanks rbasak!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-08-31
 * slangasek waves
<Odd_Bloke> o/
<infinity> \o
<philroche> \o
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> \o
<rcj> o/
<gaughen> yo o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 31 15:02:27 2017 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<fginther> o/
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke tribaal fginther)
<slangasek> tdaitx Odd_Bloke mwhudson doko philroche infinity fginther xnox sil2100 rcj cyphermox rbalint bdmurray slangasek tribaal
<slangasek> and go!
<tdaitx> wut
<tdaitx> * Some additional investigation on LP: #1710674
<tdaitx> - still not enough information to proceed
<tdaitx> * Adding LXD remote support to autopkgtest + better proxy checks
<tdaitx> - works, but its own autopkgtests are failing
<tdaitx> * Investigating Libreoffice autopkgtest failure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1710674 in openjdk-8 (Ubuntu) "Segmentation fault in os::write_memory_serialize_page " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1710674
<tdaitx> * OpenJDK 9 rc1 build (need to check for regressions on the buildlog)
<tdaitx> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> * Extended weekend to migrate to the UK; here for the week, off next week and a bit of the following
<Odd_Bloke> * Worked on migrating to xenial slaves for our Jenkins
<Odd_Bloke> * Continued work on GCE publication/testing migration (largely blocked by the above)
<Odd_Bloke> * Investigation with xnox of why Intel artful dailies aren't SSH'able in ScalingStack
<Odd_Bloke> mwhudson:
<Odd_Bloke> doko:
<doko> - binutils update fixing one regression
<doko> - gcc-7 update fixing regressions
<doko> - glibc merge to build with current artful
<doko> - python 2.7.14 release candidate
<doko> - python 3.5 and python 3.6 update pending
<doko> - working on removing the _fpectl module in python 2/3
<doko> - cleaned up the NEW queue for source uploads, except for calc-stats ...
<doko> - worked on some MIRs
<doko> - prepare python 2.7 SRU for xenial
<doko> (done)
<philroche> - New build environment automated promotion work
<doko> and autopkg testers are now busy ...
<philroche> - New build environment bug fixes
<philroche> - Partner meetings and partner meeting prep
<philroche> (done)
<infinity> Short/slow week due to extended illness:
<infinity>  * Some general AA tasks.
<infinity>  * glibc 2.26 now building locally (modulo one hungarian locale test failing?), will get tests running on all arches after I've slept a bit.
<infinity> (done)
<gaughen> doko, seeing the comment on the MIRs reminds me.. is nacc all setup with doing MIR reviews now?
<nacc> gaughen: nope :)
<doko> cyphermox: ^^^
<fginther> * Continued library development to facilitate automated publication
<fginther> * Completed fix for a partner issue
<fginther> * Working with support on other partner issues.
<slangasek> infinity: any reason not to throw 2.26 to the ppa now?
<fginther> done
<slangasek> xnox:
<cyphermox> nacc: omg!
<xnox> * short week, holiday friday-monday
<xnox> * qt transition
<xnox> * ocaml transition
<xnox> * systemd fall outs
<xnox> * zesty systemd sru in-progress, with xenial sru to follow up
<xnox> * subiquity i18n setup bits
<xnox> * EOF
<nacc> cyphermox: completely my fault
<sil2100> - Short week, got back from holidays on Monday
<sil2100> - Handling Beta 1 - reading up on release tools, prepping commands, waiting for one last flavour
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Changes to the hook API branch as per Chris's suggestions
<sil2100>   * Reviewing final version of the subcommand branch, requesting fixes, merging
<sil2100>   * Syncing up on further work on classic images
<nacc> gaughen: cyphermox: doko: I'll take an action to get that in order
<sil2100>   * Brief look of the new ClassicBuilder bits
<sil2100> - DMB meeting
<sil2100> - Adding linux-gcp + meta to the kernel packageset
<sil2100> - Pushing xnox's xenial fix for sbuild ADT failures to zesty
<sil2100> - Releasing new kernels to -updates
<sil2100> - New kernel SRU cycle reviews
<sil2100> - Regular SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Patch pilot session
<sil2100> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * vacation
<rcj> * attended cloud-init summit
<rcj> * fixing trusty build failures for grub2-efi change
<rcj>  - https://code.launchpad.net/~rcj/vmbuilder/automated-ec2-builds/+merge/329963
<rcj> * cloud image automated promotiom metadata name review
<rcj> (done)
<cyphermox> artful:
<rcj> cyphermox: Can you give that ^ MP a look?
<cyphermox> - Prepare shim upload for release 12
<cyphermox> - multiple small fixes in shim build process for upstream changes
<cyphermox> - isc-dhcp fix for search domains + SRU (bug LP: #1713747)
<cyphermox> - debugging cryptswap bug LP: #1713722
<cyphermox> xenial:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713747 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Xenial) "missing DOMAINSEARCH in initramfs output files if the DHCP server doesn't provide one" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713747
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713722 in cryptsetup (Ubuntu) "System fails to start encrypted swap on boot on an encrypted home installation" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713722
<cyphermox> - prepare netplan 0.26 SRU
<cyphermox> trusty:
<cyphermox> - grub2/shim SRU discussion
<cyphermox> other stuff:
<cyphermox> - Review ubuntu-mate slideshow update
<cyphermox> - translation mangling for slideshows
<cyphermox> - image testing
<cyphermox> (done)
<cyphermox> rcj: yup!
<rcj> thx
<bdmurray> reported crashes I ran into LP: #1712896, LP: #1712837
<bdmurray> discovered a strange retracer message w/ LP: #1712880
<bdmurray> reported bug regarding apport's pocket prioritization (LP: #1713561)
<bdmurray> resolved issues with apport and incorrect obsolete pkg detection
<bdmurray> retried of some nautilus retrace failures
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689863 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1712896 gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in js::GCMethods<JSObject*>::needsPostBarrier()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689863
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1712837 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689863 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1712880 gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in js::GCMethods<JSObject*>::needsPostBarrier()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689863
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1713561 in Apport "packaging-apt-dpkg.py's _search_contents function guesses sources in use" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713561
<bdmurray> updated apport on the Launchpad retracer
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding update of apport in staging, production
<bdmurray> tested update of apport in staging Error Tracker
<bdmurray> sponsored A, Z powerpc-utils uploads for tdaitx LP: #1692420
<bdmurray> sponsored Z update-manager upload for jibel LP: #1703365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692420 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "[SRU] powerpc-utils commands exhibits "command substitution: ignored null byte in input" warning message" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692420
<bdmurray> reviewed cloud-init SRU exception
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1703365 in update-manager (Ubuntu Zesty) "/usr/bin/update-manager:AttributeError:<lambda>:on_settings_button_clicked:show_settings" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1703365
<bdmurray> reviewed, merged, uploaded update-notifier support for Livepatch
<bdmurray> reviewed update-manager support for Livepatch
<bdmurray> irc discussion with seb128 re LP: #1697381 and LP: #1637180
<bdmurray> enabled arm64 retracers again in daisy-retracer config
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1697381 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier segfaults under wayland (trying to use xorg clipboard to see if it's already started)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697381
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1637180 in update-manager (Ubuntu Artful) ""The computer needs to restart" dialog constantly eats CPU" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637180
<bdmurray> investigation into and set up of CIVS poll for DMB members
<bdmurray> tested the fix for LP: #1696102 in Artful (doesn't seem fixed to me)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1696102 in xfsprogs (Ubuntu Zesty) "xfs/073 test fails with Metadata corruption detected on xfs file system (xfsprogs)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696102
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> slangasek:
<slangasek> cyphermox: "shim upload for release 12"?
<slangasek>  * hyperv minimized image work
<slangasek>  * Qt5.9 landed; feature freeze
<slangasek>  * beta-1 shepherding this week
<slangasek>  * shepherding removal of ifupdown and resolvconf from minimal
<slangasek>  * lots of proposed-migration cleanup
<slangasek>  * off next week
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> Tribaal:
<Tribaal> * [Highlight once it lands] Changes to the the vagrant image are up for review at https://code.launchpad.net/~tribaal/livecd-rootfs/add-vagrant-user/+merge/329598 ! New vagrant images will have a vagrant user on top of the ubuntu user.
<Tribaal> * I blogged about our mirror deployment inside public clouds (https://tribaal.io/running-an-ubuntu-mirror-with-juju.html)
<Tribaal> * Reviews on ubuntu-image (yay I'm starting to understand the code)
<Tribaal> * Looking at some AWS upgrade problem for the grub config.
<Tribaal> â done
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<cyphermox> slangasek: it's my fault for not properly fixing up the crap I use in my time tracker
<slangasek> cyphermox: so shim is bumping to version 12 upstream, ok
<cyphermox> yeah
<sil2100> Oh, highlight! Beta 1 I guess?
<doko> infinity: I'd like to do the second test rebuild with the new glibc. when could that be done?
<sil2100> Aaaand new kernels
<cyphermox> the version number isn't important, the issue was updating the package for upstream changes + the merged MokManager work I did
<doko> pff, looks like he expected my question ...
 * sil2100 is really bad at doing highlights
<doko> ... and quit
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> [LINK] http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> seb128 brought up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/1697381
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1697381 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier segfaults under wayland (trying to use xorg clipboard to see if it's already started)" [High,Confirmed]
<slangasek> looks like we have a couple things here
<slangasek> bdmurray: yeah, we ought not have update-manager broken under wayland for 17.10
<gaughen> LP: #1712921 - should that move on to the tracking list? I see xnox is assigned
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1712921 in systemd (Ubuntu) "enabling networkd appears to eat up entropy" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1712921
<bdmurray> slangasek: update-manager was fixed, update-notifier isn't - so target it then?
<xnox> gaughen, yeah.
<slangasek> oh, u-n
<slangasek> bdmurray: yeah, target it anyway; we at least don't want it generating crash dialogs
<bdmurray> or not raising crash dialogs. ;-)
<slangasek> that too
<slangasek> and the other, bug #1712921
<ubottu> bug 1712921 in systemd (Ubuntu) "enabling networkd appears to eat up entropy" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1712921
<bdmurray> target that one also?
<slangasek> xnox: you set the tag on this, what were your thoughts?
<slangasek> did enabling haveged solve openssh's entropy problem?
<xnox> slangasek, my thoughts on it was that i'm not sure if "openssh test suite uses a lot of entropy" and that "enable networkd just pushes over the edge of evailable entropy"
<xnox> slangasek, or if all the getrandom() calls in networkd stack to constantly generate timeouts and backouts and schedule retries actually eat real entropy a lot
<xnox> and what priority there is.
<xnox> slangasek, does e.g. cking or security team measure at all how much entropy we eat during steady state operation?
<slangasek> doubtful
<rcj> How does this look on clouds where there aren't a lot of devices to use to produce entropy (and how does it affect boot speed, are we stalling?)
<slangasek> sounds like there's at least more investigation we should be doing this cycle, so I'll target it
<xnox> rcj, the problem with openssh-server autopkgtest was that eventually after generating many throw away keys it will stall failing to generate three more keys to succeed the tests.
<xnox> rcj, we "fixed" that by starting fake entropy source with haveged in the openssh autopkgtest
<rcj> cloud-init generates 4 keys on first boot (I think that's the number)
<xnox> nothing else has fallen out yet.
<rcj> k
<xnox> well, and the Intel cloud images....
<slangasek> alrighty, I think that's it for bugs
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> I'm out tomorrow and Monday.
<cyphermox> also out on Monday
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 31 15:27:16 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-08-31-15.02.moin.txt
<slangasek> the end
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<sil2100> Thanks o/
<gaughen> thanks slangasek!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-27
<slashd> o/
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> hey
<sil2100> Not sure if we have anything on the agenda for today
<cyphermox> doesn't look to be the case
<sil2100> Don't know if it makes sense to do a dmb-ping
<cyphermox> there are no previous action items either on the agenda
<cyphermox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<sil2100> Let's just stick around in case someone has any questions for the DMB
<sil2100> But otherwise I'd say no meeting today
<slashd> sound good to me
<jdstrand> hi all!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 27 16:30:29 2018 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> The generalist role rotation for this week as follows:
<jdstrand> CVE Triage: leosilva, Bug Triage: ebarretto, Community: msalvatore, Happy Place: sarnold, sbeattie, amurray
<jdstrand> Thanks to Thomas Opfer for help on security updates for the community supported tomcat8 last week. This work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> Thanks to Thomas Opfer for help on security updates for the community supported tomcat8 last week. This work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<jdstrand> whoops
<jdstrand> I was so appreciative, I thanked Thomas twice! :)
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security Team is hiring! Please see:
<jdstrand> - Ubuntu Security engineer: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1158266?t=8c0a6c1f1
<jdstrand> - Ubuntu Security manager: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1278287?t=8c0a6c1f1
<jdstrand> Due to US holiday on September 3rd, the next meeting will be on September 10.
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first. This week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - continue brand store snap declarations (ie, review MRs)
<jdstrand> - continue kubernetes-support interfaces (ie, assist k8s team with questions, iterate on PoC interfaces)
<jdstrand> - various snapd PR reviews (eg, anbox-support, et all)
<jdstrand> - iterate on audio-playback/record interfaces
<jdstrand> I'll also proxy amurray's report. He plans to:
<jdstrand> - continue the ceph update
<jdstrand> - continue various internal work
<jdstrand> - move to another reactive update as time allows
<jdstrand> I'll also report for jjohansen and simply say that he is attending the Linux Security Summit
<jdstrand> sbeattie, you're up (when you're done, feel free to skip John and go straight to sarnold). sarnold, Chris is off today so go straight to Leo.
<jdstrand> sarnold: why don't you go and we'll circle back to sbeattie
<sbeattie> jdstrand: I'm here
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm in the middle of publishing intel-microcode updates
<sbeattie> I have a couple of laggard kernels that I need to publish USNs for, as well as the usual rounds of kernel CVE triage
<sbeattie> I have an openjdk-lts/bionic regression fix to test and publish.
<sbeattie> I'm also in the process of sponsoring mariadb updates.
<sbeattie> And I need to get back to the bind9 updates I'm in the middle of.
<sbeattie> If I can get through that, I'll pick up another update off the list.
<sbeattie> I also need to look at outstanding apparmor merges, and investigate some test failures for jjohansen
<sbeattie> That's it for me; sarnold, you're up.
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week, getting caught up on the community tasks from lsat week, and hopefully returning to the xdg-desktop-portal-gtk mir; as well as sales trip prep.
<sarnold> if jj's got apparmor patches that need reviewing, I'll do what I can there, too
<sarnold> that's it for me, leosilva?
<leosilva> I'm in cve triage this week
<leosilva> I just finished a libgd2 update a few min ago.
<leosilva> I also have flask and poppler on my stack.
<leosilva> Other than that I'll do my usual hunting for others updates
<leosilva> ebarretto: that's you up? (I think)
<ebarretto> I'm in Bug triage this week:
<ebarretto> - Just going through the list of bugs
<jdstrand> leosilva: Mike is technically after you, but he can go after Eduardo today :)
<ebarretto> - I've updated ffmpeg last week
<ebarretto> - I've released a new package update through ESM today
<ebarretto> - I will pick a new package to update
<leosilva> I thought he was on lunch of out no?
<jdstrand> ebarretto: do you have an idea what that is? (in general it would be nice to state the package to work on here)
<ebarretto> jdstrand, not yet ... need to go through the list and choose one
<jdstrand> leosilva: yes, that's what he said, but not sure when he planned to return
<jdstrand> ebarretto: that's fine. for future meeting, can your meeting prep include that?
<jdstrand> future meetings*
<ebarretto> sure, will do
<jdstrand> thanks
<jdstrand> leosilva: hmm, Mike isn't even in the channel! :)
<jdstrand> ok, moving on
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, sarnold, leosilva, ebarretto: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 27 16:44:53 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-27-16.30.moin.txt
<ebarretto> thanks jdstrand!
<leosilva> tks jdstrand
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-08-30
 * slangasek waves
<rbalint> o/
<philroche> \o
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 30 15:01:31 2018 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<juliank> o\
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<slangasek> Odd_Bloke slangasek xnox sil2100 fginther bdmurray philroche rbalint doko cyphermox tdaitx infinity juliank rcj mwhudson
<Odd_Bloke> * Mostly working on a variety of partner facing issues, or meeting with partners
<Odd_Bloke> * Assisted in upgrade of cloud images Jenkins server
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> slangasek:
<slangasek>  * "+1 maintenance"; -proposed backlog down about 30% since last week, outstanding autopkgtest regressions down by about half
<slangasek>  * finding novel ways to break the Canonical porter chroots, filed RTs (as yet unresolved)
<slangasek>  * working to get nvidia packages for clouds into their final form
<slangasek>  * Next week:
<slangasek>    * out Monday (bank holiday)
<slangasek> xnox:
<slangasek> (done)
<xnox> * helping debug cloud archive charm deployment failures -> promoting ubuntu-cloud-keyring
<xnox> * systemd crypttab support for sector-size merged upstream, in proposed
<xnox> * cryptsetup crypttab support sector-size is in review in debian, to be uploaded into ubuntu soon
<xnox> * kexec-tools FFe fix for s390x uploaded
<xnox> * binutils march s390x parsing SRU in unapproved
<xnox> * tested packet.net cloud kernel upgrades
<xnox> * debugging adt tests systemd/linux/s390x pain
<xnox> * interview home work feedback
<xnox> * short week, monday was off.
<xnox> (done)
<slangasek> no sil2100
<slangasek> fginther:
<fginther> * Out last week
<fginther> * Draft of an image build and publication spec
<fginther> * Progress on cloud-init changes to support redirecting logins from specific users
<fginther> * Some maintianence work
<fginther> done
<fginther> bdmurray:
<blackboxsw> +1 fginther review comments posted
<bdmurray> I too was out last week.
<bdmurray> vacation catch up
<bdmurray> updated cosmic seeds snap section with a reference to DistUpgradeQuirks.py
<bdmurray> investigation into unattended-upgrades bug LP: #1787460
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1787460 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "Unattended upgrades removed linux-image-generic" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1787460
<bdmurray> meeting regarding package to team mapping
<bdmurray> fixed u-r-u's Prompt= for cosmic
<bdmurray> research into release-upgrade metrics / numbers
<bdmurray> investigation into updates needing to be installed before release upgrades
<bdmurray> fixing of ubuntu-release-upgrader LP: #1787668
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1787668 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader crashed with KeyError: "The cache has no package named 'ubuntu-desktop'"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1787668
<bdmurray> uploaded and verified SRU of the above for 18.04
<bdmurray> improved the fix for snap channel switching bug LP: #1748581
<bdmurray> discussion with / code review for sil2100's fix for LP: #1783328
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1748581 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Cosmic) "ubuntu-release-upgrader will need to know how to switch snaps between Ubuntu release channels during an upgrade" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1748581
<bdmurray> added an u-r-u quirk which checks for i386 and blocks the upgrade
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1783328 in update-manager (Ubuntu Cosmic) "The option to select LTS notifications should be masked in non-LTS versions" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1783328
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> philroche:
<philroche> * Cloud image build system vanguard
<philroche> * Cloud image customisations
<philroche> (done)
<cshep> hiii
<philroche> rbalint:
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * fixed LP: #1788716
<cyphermox> cshep: hey
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1788716 in rax-nova-agent (Ubuntu Bionic) "rax-nova-agent causes a systemd ordering cycle on boot" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788716
<rbalint> * prepared new rax-nova-agent for Xenial
<rbalint> * verifed LP: #1775226
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1775226 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] Gnome Software offers installation of updates on shutdown independently from update-manager and unattended-upgrades" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775226
<rbalint> * fixed ruby-concurrent autopkgtest on armhf
<rbalint> * fixed unattended-upgrades regression with python-apt with frontend lock support
<rbalint> * prepared new unattended-upgrades SRU to bionic
<rbalint> * new wireshark upstream release upload to Debian
<rbalint> (done)
<doko> - was off last week (sick leave, two days off)
<doko> - worked on MIRs, to get component-mismatches down
<doko> - promotions / demotions of binary packages
<doko> - looking into pythonX.Y autopkg test failures
<doko> - preparing next batch of GCC updates, tracking down two new ICEs
<doko> - chat with mwhudson about -proposed status, sorted by team
<doko> (done)
<cyphermox> - MIR: intel-processor-trace
<cyphermox> - release shim/shim-signed 15+1533136590.3beb971-0ubuntu1
<cyphermox> - prepare shim + gnu-efi SRU everywhere
<cyphermox> - systemd:
<cyphermox>   - work on optional-addresses implementation
<cyphermox>   - revived + submit for review interface ActivationMode=
<cyphermox> - netplan:
<cyphermox>   - PR review
<cyphermox>   - discuss development process with new contributors on #netplan
<cyphermox> (I'm off Friday and Monday)
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray: speaking of package team mappings, kernel team said yes to ocl-icd and khronos-opencl-headers, correct?  I notice they're still unsubscribed
<slangasek> (which I can notice as a glance, now that he unsubscribed list is so short!)
<gaughen> y
<bdmurray> slangasek: I did subscribe them
<gaughen> slangasek, is there still a boost on there?
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> is something not regenerating?
<bdmurray> what are you looking at?
<gaughen> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/m-r-package-team-mapping.html
<bdmurray> gaughen: you aren't slangasek
<gaughen> duh, but that's what I'm looking at
<bdmurray> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ocl-icd
<bdmurray> kernel-packages is subscribed
<gaughen> tdaitx is out
<rcj> juliank:
<juliank> * short week / long weekend (was out fri+mon)
<juliank> * fixed fpc-related upgrade issues (bug 1786486)
<ubottu> bug 1786486 in fpc (Ubuntu Bionic) "upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 uncalculatable due to fpc packages" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1786486
<juliank> * verified grub SRU (bug 1785859)
<ubottu> bug 1785859 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Bionic) "[REGRESSION] ppc64el grub in bionic may be auto-generating MAC address instead of using the assigned to the VM." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785859
<juliank> * rebuilt grub2-signed against that SRU (forgot to upload that with the SRU upload)
<juliank> * found a bug in apt that causes it to stop pipelining in future connections once a server responds with Connection: close (archive.u.c does that every 101 requests, thus only 101 packages are pipelined). PoC fix
<juliank> * further investigation in aptdaemon locking
<juliank> * some minor bug triaging
<juliank> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * attended cloud-init summit last week
<rcj> * prepared for new hire on-boarding
<rcj> * assisted with build system upgrade side-effects
<rcj> * partner image development
<rcj> (ð done)
<bdmurray> no mwhudson
<slangasek> any questions on status?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> bug 1745664 is supposedly a regression
<ubottu> bug 1745664 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[regression] systemd-logind crashed with SIGABRT in __libc_connect() from __GI_clnttcp_create() from __GI___libc_rpc_getport() from __GI_pmap_getport() from __GI_clnttcp_create()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1745664
<slangasek> NIS?
<bdmurray> Is it the same as bug 1774417
<ubottu> bug 1774417 in nis (Ubuntu) "systemd-logind: do_ypcall: clnt_call: RPC: Unable to send; errno = Operation not permitted" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774417
<slangasek> possibly
<slangasek> I'm doubtful that we should prioritize this
<slangasek> NIS is broadly obsolete and insecure and we don't exercise it
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay
<bdmurray> then bug 1785723
<ubottu> bug 1785723 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Memory leak in systemd-journald" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785723
<slangasek> xnox, rbalint: ^^ ?
<xnox> hm
<gaughen> I have a bug too to chat about
<gaughen> when you're ready
<xnox> journalctl --flush
<xnox> should help to clear things, so comparing after a flush would be useful.
 * xnox can check if it is leaking on e.g. my machine...
<rbalint> i'm not sure if this is an actual leak but i'd be +1 on taking it and at lease provide workarounds
<slangasek> ok, pulling into the backlog
<gaughen> slangasek, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nodejs/+bug/1779863
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1779863 in nodejs (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Ubuntu nodejs package isn't ABI compatible with mainline nodejs." [Medium,In progress]
<gaughen> slangasek, I know this caused strong views, but it is still sitting out there
<slangasek> gaughen: that required a reupload and was in the unapproved queue awaiting re-review, last I checked
<slangasek> gaughen: I had accepted and then it FTBFS because it was one of these annoying packages with a testsuite that embeds SSL certificates with expiration dates
<gaughen> k, so ddstreet the nodejs bug above is waiting on you to rebase, correct?
<slangasek> so any SRU team member can re-review
<slangasek> no, it's not waiting on him
<gaughen> oh okay
<ddstreet> gaughen i rebased and reuploaded it 8/14
<ddstreet> it's been waiting on slangasek since then
<gaughen> I'm slow, and not reading all of slangasek's words
<gaughen> bdmurray, would you do a re-review please?
<slangasek> it's been waiting on the SRU team, not on me personally :)
<gaughen> look slangasek it's hard to read ALL your words
<bdmurray> gaughen: okay
<gaughen> thank you!
<slangasek> any other bugs?
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: is bug 1727751 important to you?
<ubottu> bug 1727751 in distro-info (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-distro-info shows the current development series as "latest development" and "supported stable version" at the same time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1727751
<slangasek> win 37
<slangasek> aaaaaa
<Odd_Bloke> bdmurray: Not especially.
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: okay
<bdmurray> that's it from me then
<xnox> slangasek, rbalint - i think it is leaky, restart of journald results in 35M -> 1M ram usage for me, as per $ systemctl status systemd-journald
<slangasek> xnox: cool; it's in the systemd trello backlog for you to prioritize :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 30 15:44:38 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-08-30-15.01.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-08-27
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: hi I answered on zsys
<cpaelzer_> lets discuss and get a group ack here later on by the Team that will hopefully be here
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: what do you need from me on the Lintian issues?
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: hey, thanks! On Lintian, I really can't reproduce, (the end of the text should explain more) do you just run lintian on it?
<didrocks> I gave an example even with --pendatic on eoan, and no copyright issue
<cpaelzer_> hmm, I ran on Bionic didrocks
<cpaelzer_> if you have a pedantic more or less happy then I'm fine
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: more than happy, I have 0 warnings :)
<cpaelzer_> ok then
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: see "I'm not seeing those on an up to date eoan machine"  on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zsys/+bug/1839271/comments/2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1839271 in zsys (Ubuntu) "[MIR] zsys" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: /!\ the comments are really long (longer than launchpad will show inline), you need to download it
<cpaelzer_> lol
<cpaelzer_> yeah that is why I only have read half of it I gues
<cpaelzer_> s
<didrocks> sorry, you will have even more to read :) (and also tell me if the .service change is fine for you)
<cpaelzer_> reading now
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: ok what remains before our discussion here later on are two things then
<cpaelzer_> a) the simple one - the lack of ducomentation
<cpaelzer_> you said that it will not have user-visible features
<cpaelzer_> I'm torn on this, can't you somehow easily convert the blogs into a md file or so that could ship as a documentation?
<cpaelzer_> or a basic summar with rferences to the blog post series
<cpaelzer_> that way the series can grow with more details as the project lives and evolves
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: what about linking them (or copying) in the upstream github wiki page?
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: ^^ ?
<didrocks> (actually, they are already markdown)
<didrocks> that way, it's easy to get them evolving over time
<cpaelzer_> ack
<cpaelzer_> not perfect, but there jsut isn't more we could add right now
<cpaelzer_> considering you do this lets get to (b) my complains about the usability in a container
<didrocks> yeah, I'm currently downloading a lxc (trying to find eoan image)
<didrocks> and see what can be done
<didrocks> I wonder though how useful this could be in a container
<cpaelzer_> I'm not sure what in the postinst breaks
<didrocks> but that's your server side talking I think ;)
<cpaelzer_> if it is just the service it is trivial
<didrocks> I think it's starting the systemctl service
<didrocks> if you don't have the zfs module loaded
<didrocks> or if you have pre-0.8
<cpaelzer_> let me fetch some examples as suggestion
<didrocks> the generated postinst only has the systemd stuff
<didrocks> while the image is downloading, let me check if there is an arg to tell "don't fail if the service can't start"
<didrocks> I implemented it in debian long ago, don't remember if this was merged or not
<didrocks> (in dh_systemd)
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: ConditionVirtualization=!continer
<cpaelzer_> as I'd think it never would make sens in a container right?
<didrocks> ah, directly in the service, preventing it for starting, that makes sense
<didrocks> because right now, I don't see a use of zsys in the container, indeed
<didrocks> and it's too dependant on the host kernel module
<didrocks> ok, let's go that way, adding it
<didrocks> thanks for the link :)
<cpaelzer_> other commonly used options are ConditionCapability=
<didrocks> on debian/watch, I guess I'm going to remove it (see the ref on the lintian warning)
<cpaelzer_> if you strictly depend on some caps to be able to work
<cpaelzer_> e.g. ConditionCapability=CAP_SYS_TIME
<cpaelzer_> ok for watch
<didrocks> let me check man capabilities to see if one fits
<cpaelzer_> if you want to go hardcore you can even limit it down to known syscallfilters
<cpaelzer_> example
<cpaelzer_> SystemCallFilter=~@clock @cpu-emulation @debug @keyring @module @mount @obsolete @raw-io @reboot @swap
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: ^^
<cpaelzer_> not required, but while you are at it this is a great way to really limit exploitability
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: right, I would go wide at first, and restrict little by little, especially once we have the client/service logic
<didrocks> there, limiting the prividledged service as much as possible will help
<didrocks> priviledged*
<cpaelzer_> yep
<cpaelzer_> since everything new is in the focus having it a bit more encapsulated can't hurt
<didrocks> maybe, let's go with !container at first, and once we are closer to 1.0 with the new model, the second security review, go that way
<didrocks> yes
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: I think we are fine waiting for you to bring it up with the group later then
<didrocks> sure!
<didrocks> thanks again for the review cpaelzer_ :)
<cpaelzer_> I only want to help, not being a pedantic roadblock
<cpaelzer_> although sometimes for MIR reviews that is just what we have to be :-)
<didrocks> heh, ofc
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: interesting, so the postinst doesn't fail in the container, you meant it did? the postinst has || true.
<didrocks> you have the following message though, as the service can't start:
<didrocks> Job for zsys-commit.service failed because the control process exited with error code.
<didrocks> See "systemctl status zsys-commit.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.
<didrocks> (but RC is 0, and the dpkg transaction isn't broken)
<didrocks> however, in lxc, "ConditionVirtualization=!container" doesn't work, I'll try on dock
<didrocks> docker*
<didrocks> cpaelzer_: FYI, the condition works on docker (not started), so it's still a plus.
<cpaelzer_> hmm
<cpaelzer_> it should work on lxd
<cpaelzer_> is is the same as systemd-detect-virt
<didrocks> systemd-detect-virt
<didrocks> lxc
<didrocks> so, not "container"
<didrocks> let me launch it on docker
<cpaelzer_> no there is a --container or so
<cpaelzer_> which summarizes all the containers into one check
<didrocks> --container (which seems to be what it is, indeed), returns "lxc" as well
<didrocks> it does return "docker" anyway, even with --container in docker
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: it returns true
<cpaelzer_> that is the point
<cpaelzer_> systemd-detect-virt --container
<cpaelzer_> it returns the "type" e.g. lxc
<cpaelzer_> print = type
<cpaelzer_> RC = 1/0 depending on what it is
<didrocks> ah, so, it's only the exit code, let me check
<cpaelzer_> yep
<cpaelzer_> systemd-detect-virt --container is RC=0 in containers
<cpaelzer_> and 1 everywhere else
<cpaelzer_> and that is what the check in the .service is based on
<didrocks> yep, wondering why it started on lxc then, let me recheck
<didrocks> still the same, hum
<didrocks> and definitively working on docker
<didrocks> (working as "not starting")
<didrocks> ah, my fault I guess, one min
<didrocks> ok good now :)
<cyphermox> hrm
<didrocks> should we start the meeting?
<cpaelzer_> lets ping the rest
<cpaelzer_> cyphermox: is already here
<cpaelzer_> doko: jamespage: jdstrand: ping for MIR meeting
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: it seems it is just cyphermox me and you
<didrocks> hum, should we still discuss zsys if doko/jamespage/jdstrand are away?
<didrocks> yep :)
<cpaelzer_> yeah, you need a way to go on
<cpaelzer_> and cyphermox is a MIR-pro :-)
<cyphermox> huh?
<didrocks> so, for cyphermox, the background is that zsys (a zfs userspace handler that the desktop team is writting) is an experimental feature announced for eoan
<cpaelzer_> cyphermox: we were wondering about the MIR on zsys
<cpaelzer_> didrocks: will explain
<didrocks> current version is 0.1
<didrocks> it's a go binary (not user-visible, only doing some background work)
<didrocks> as for ubuntu-report, snapd, juju, it vendors the deps
<didrocks> for some context, on ubuntu-report, I tried to avoid vendoring
<cyphermox> yeah. as long as security is okay with the vendored deps... but I thought we were supposed to crack down on that
<didrocks> which was then reverted to "let's vendor, easier and better for our use-case"
<cyphermox> I mean, it's definitely not great, but it also looks kinda unavoidable in some cases
<didrocks> I guess the vendor vs not vendor should be dealt at distro level, but for all binaries vendoring (including snapd, juju, â¦)
<didrocks> maybe a goal for a cycle?
<didrocks> (unsure if LTS cycle would be the best though)
<cyphermox> maybe
<didrocks> maybe it will be the time to ask about go module & proxy handling
<cyphermox> is zsys in the archive now?
<didrocks> yes
<didrocks> (universe)
<cyphermox> well.. the issue is also that go transitions are terrible
<cyphermox> so ifg you need new deps on a released distro it's teh worst.
<didrocks> ah, in that sense, well, same than with any other language, if you need a newer version of a lib (or go itselfâ¦)
<cyphermox> okay, so I guess archive admins already complained about zsys vendoring deps, and we're all good on that side?
<didrocks> didn't complain because we went that road on ubuntu-report (without vendoring, and then, had to go back on vendoring), so they were aware
<cyphermox> ah ok
<didrocks> (they == seb FTR)
<cyphermox> well, as long as the security team is aware, because that imposes some burden on them because of the vendored dependency
<didrocks> yes, anyway, we are pending on the security review
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well I don't see any issue with the MIR otherwise
<cpaelzer_> all that cyphermox is the same I already said(glad about that)  - I think the critical point here is the very early 0.1
<cpaelzer_> I mena we don't re-evaluate SW anyway
<cyphermox> no, but it's written by Canonical
<cpaelzer_> so when we ack on v5 of something we silently assume v7 will still be fine
<didrocks> which is a bigger issue IMHO, I have seen some stuff being MIRed being very different some months/years after
<didrocks> (starting with unity for instance)
<cpaelzer_> cyphermox: yeah that here canonical is the upstream was my argument as well why it might be ok
<cyphermox> things generally don't regress over time to get less MIR-worthy
<didrocks> and as said, I'm more on the safe side: once we migrate to the service/client model, I will require a security background check to ensure I didn't open any hole
<cpaelzer_> ok, it seems we are fine with your 0.1 then didrocks - under the constraint that security is ok with is as well
 * didrocks doesn't like things running as root and won't declare himself an expert :)
<cyphermox> you MIR the software that makes sense to have in main, that we really need, etc. as long as the quality is acceptable and we can reasonably expect the software not to become trash because we "trust" the maintainers
<didrocks> indeed
<cyphermox> well, I don't like it much either... does it really need to run as root?
<didrocks> cyphermox: it needs to interacts with zfs module kernel
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> it's some kind of fuse driver?
<didrocks> right now, for some of the action, only root is allowed
<didrocks> no, it's tagging/handling/snapshoting zfs datasets
<didrocks> snapshotting*
<cyphermox> ok
<cpaelzer> didrocks: take a not on the syscall filters and such  - that will help you to be a rather safe root process
<cpaelzer> but I think after our discussion that already is on your lists somewhere
<didrocks> cpaelzer: definitively note down
<cyphermox> well, it wouldn't be the first thing anyway. we have other things that do similar work
<didrocks> yes
<cyphermox> udisks?
<didrocks> right
<cyphermox> also, probably a pretty good example of something in main with horrendous code ;)
<didrocks> hoping zsys won't go the same way :) at least, it has a big testsuite :p
<cyphermox> hehe
<cyphermox> great
<didrocks> cpaelzer: do you mind giving the official +1 (pending security ofc) on the bug so that I'm not the one writing it? (don't want to be the requester and acker)? (maybe with some of the reasoning and linking this discussion?)
<cpaelzer> yes
<cpaelzer> doing so now ...
<didrocks> thx cpaelzer & cyphermox :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-08-29
<rbalint> o/
<juliank> \o
<cyphermox> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> who is running the show?
<tdaitx> ohhh, that's me
<tdaitx> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 29 15:04:59 2019 UTC.  The chair is tdaitx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<tdaitx> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<tdaitx> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<tdaitx> mwhudson infinity tdaitx cyphermox rbalint doko bdmurray juliank sil2100 xnox waveform vorlon
<tdaitx> uh that means me
<tdaitx> * worked on proposed-migration
<tdaitx> * updated openjdk & ubuntu support timeline (https://time.graphics/line/39488)
<tdaitx> * added sysfsutils to gke seed
<tdaitx> * worked on improving openjdk-11 autopkgtests
<tdaitx>   - debugged a few flaky tests
<tdaitx>   - looked at tests that regressed - either fix/filter them out
<bdmurray> indeed it does
<tdaitx> * rebuild jck snap for upload
<tdaitx> (done)
<tdaitx> cyphermox: go! go! =)
<cyphermox> just a sec
<cyphermox> gah
<cyphermox> off next monday
<cyphermox> proposed migration: still working on pandas, salt
<cyphermox> netplan SRUs
<cyphermox> writing autopkgtests for shim
<cyphermox> reviewed usb-modeswitch
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> (on vacation till Monday)
<rbalint> * going through email backlog
<rbalint> * few meetings
<rbalint> * sponsored livecd-rootfs SRUs
<rbalint> * got systemd 240-6ubuntu13 migrated and prepared 241-7ubuntu1, waiting for FFe approval
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> (done)
<rbalint> rbalint@
<doko> - preparing the 2nd eoan test rebuild, and preparing the lto enabled test rebuild
<doko> - updated the Python2 removal tracker, documented Python2 Ubuntu only packages, and preparing bug filings for Debian
<doko> - gdb update, a little bit later than feature freeze
<doko> - one sick day
<doko> - vacation tomorrow Friday, and next Monday
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> began a card about discussing automatic upgrade testing for Paris
<bdmurray> boggled at core18 not having a stable/ubuntu-19.10 channel which is bad for upgrade testing
<bdmurray> bamboozled sil2100 into working on the above u-r-u bug
<bdmurray> blabbed with mdeslaur about apport and whoopsie security bugs
<bdmurray> bugged ubuntu-security about subscribing to bugs about linftnl
<bdmurray> battled with daisy's usage of memory
<bdmurray> brooded over sil2100's u-r-u MP regarding snap size estimation
<bdmurray> bullied by gaughen into taking more cards
<doko> bdmurray: you are two cycles late ...
<bdmurray> â baked
<vorlon> "basta"
<bdmurray> juliank:
<gaughen> bedazzled
<cyphermox> be next?
<juliank> * SRUs!
<juliank>   - uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader/xenial: Use HTTPS for changelogs.ubuntu.com (LP: #1744318)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1744318 in update-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "changelogs.ubuntu.com should be using HTTPS" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1744318
<juliank>   - uploaded packagekit/disco: Use a socket-activated client helper (LP: #1726068)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1726068 in packagekit (Ubuntu Disco) "debconf socket closes if aptdaemon/PK client exits" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1726068
<juliank> * python-setuptools proposed-migration fixing:
<juliank>   - uploaded twisted: Add missing Depends for python{,3}-idna to python{,3}-twisted-core, as they are needed for TLS support
<sil2100> Bazulian
<juliank>   - uploaded django-setuptest: Remove invalid test for python 2 support
<juliank> * talking about how to associate repositories with keyrings so that each repo can only be signed by the key that belongs to it
<juliank> * off for the weekend, back on Tuesday
<juliank> (donnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne)
<sil2100> - Got back from vacation on THIS WEEK'S Tuesday
<sil2100> - Reading backlog of e-mail, getting up to speed
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - SRU ADT Regression reporter:
<sil2100>   * Added a few fixes on top of the current code (as it was still broken)
<sil2100>   * Created bot-account for bug commenting, switched to use it
<sil2100>   * Enabled reporting once again
<sil2100> - Added fixes per Brian's review on the deb-to-snap size estimation in u-r-u
<sil2100> - Started looking into testing the u-r-u changes in real upgrade scenarios
<sil2100> - Fixed travis CI for core18 caused by newest snapcraft behavior changes
<sil2100> - Reviewed u-boot debdiff for nitrogen6x2g support in Ubuntu
<sil2100> - Added handling for block-proposed-$SERIES in sru-report
<sil2100> - Re-enabled bionic daily image builds, made sure a new core18 got picked up by automation
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> sil2100:  i don't like the URLs broken on - and line wrapped in the autopkgtest regression sru emails
<xnox> sil2100:  where is the code for it?
<xnox> * Help sheparding secureboot signed linux on s390x, now done.
<xnox> * Clean up s390x tickets backlog
<xnox> * Fixup gzip s390x regression
<xnox> * Upload sru for smc-tools
<xnox> * Planning uc20 smartsheet
<xnox> done
<waveform> * Short week (bank holiday)
<waveform> * Finished postinst changes for u-boot-rpi to re-write & split "config.txt" to support multiple pi-model-specific u-boot installations on classic (still need to port changes to core)
<waveform> * Experimented with ucf for future "config.txt" maintenance
<waveform> * Still stripping out irrelevant patches from experimental pi4 kernel
<waveform> * Checking u-boot upstream patches for ARMv8 to see if anything improves Pi4 compat
<waveform> (done)
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration
<vorlon>  * spec reviews
<vorlon>  * next week, off Monday for Labor Day (not Labour Day)
<vorlon> (done)
<tdaitx> anything else?
<tdaitx> moving on...
<tdaitx> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<bdmurray> not re status
<tdaitx> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<rbalint> i had one question re status
<rbalint> do i need ffe for systemd 241?
<bdmurray> bug 1841675 was recently reported
<ubottu> bug 1841675 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with AttributeError in tryMarkObsoleteForRemoval(): 'Package' object has no attribute 'section'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841675
<rbalint> as xnox pointed out 243 was in proposed once
<rbalint> ok, then laterz
<gaughen> rbalint, we can talk at the AOB portion
<gaughen> tdaitx, ^^
<xnox> hm it is odd for a package to not have a section
<xnox> i thought it's required?!
<rbalint> xnox, maybe it is locally built?
<bdmurray> The bug has four duplicates fwiw
<rbalint> i think we should take it, to fix upgrades
<bdmurray> emoving libedata-cal-1.2-29:amd64 rather than change libebackend-1.2-10:amd64
<bdmurray> that shows up more than once
<xnox> yeah, that looks backwards.
<bdmurray> anyway, lets card it
<bdmurray> bug 1841672 has no importance
<ubottu> bug 1841672 in ubuntu-mate-meta (Ubuntu) "CryptSetup packages should not be removed by `apt-get autoremove` on system installed with encryption and LVM" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841672
<bdmurray> but seems important
<xnox> hm
<bdmurray> It wouldn't be MATE specific would it?
<xnox> also might be because we install the wrong package (obsolete meta one) instead of cryptsetup-initramfs
<juliank> again?
<xnox> it should be relevant for anybody using ubiquity, no? or is Mate the one that use their own installer?
<xnox> juliank:  oh?
<juliank> We had a similar issue where it removed lvm2 and cryptsetup in disco
<juliank> or cosmic?
<juliank> after I introduced the change that made depends of metapackages automatically installed
<xnox> juliank:  yes, but we also keep on installing the wrong support package in-target
<juliank> but if it's a metapackage, that should be working?
<juliank> or did it get moved in the section
<xnox> hmm i see partman-crypto do the right thing now...
<xnox> apt-install cryptsetup-initramfs || true
<xnox> so it's not that
<juliank> I'm not sure what happens if you move packages from metapackages to oldlibs or something
<juliank> last one was https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1801629
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1801629 in OEM Priority Project "direct dependencies of ubiquity should not be autoremovable" [High,Fix released]
<juliank> anyway, should be High
<bdmurray> Seems like we should card it too
<juliank> yes
<bdmurray> okay, I'll do that
<juliank> and I should extend the debug output out the script to tell you why it marked stuff as auto so you can follow the chain
<juliank> s/out the/of the/
<bdmurray> bug 1840122 has a card tag but no task I'll fix that
<ubottu> bug 1840122 in linux (Ubuntu) "System fails to reboot from live session or ubiquity-dm - squashfs_read_data failed to read block" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1840122
<bdmurray> I think we are done with ee then
<tdaitx> #topic Release incoming bugs (bionic)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (bionic)
<tdaitx> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> just this RFKILL thing
<xnox> urgh
<bdmurray> which looks to be fix committed
<tdaitx> moving along then
<xnox> it looks good
<tdaitx> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<tdaitx> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<juliank> python-setuptools is almost done, just need to figure out why twisted is broken now and why gvfs is
<tdaitx> I am working on python-packaging
<rbalint> pyyaml was cyphermox's last time :-)
<cyphermox> still is, it was part of my status
<cyphermox> still working on salt
<cyphermox> (three tests left to fix)
<cyphermox> who wants lintian? would be best if *I* didn't write it so then I can review
<rbalint> cyphermox, i take it
<cyphermox> ack
<cyphermox> openssl: xnox wants it, apparently
<cyphermox> we can move on I guess
<xnox> yeap
<xnox> tdaitx:  ?
<tdaitx> #topic Chair selection for next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Chair selection for next meeting
<tdaitx> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<tdaitx> xnox
<tdaitx> congrats! =)
<cyphermox> wooo
<rbalint> :-)
<xnox> yeah!
<tdaitx> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> many people out on Monday?
<bdmurray> Monday is a US holiday
<rbalint> my only AOB was the systemd FFe, but sil2100 takes a look
<tdaitx> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 29 15:49:27 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-08-29-15.04.moin.txt
<sil2100> Will do o/
<rbalint> o/
<tdaitx> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
<rbalint> thanks!
<sil2100> rbalint: I need to jump out now for a bit, would it be fine if I review the FFe in some hour or so?
<rbalint> sil2100, thanks, sure, if you do it today i can still upload it this day
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-24
<slashd> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<rbasak> o/
 * ddstreet coffee before start
<slashd> I'll give another 5-10 minutes for other DMB to join. Otherwise, I will call it a day for today.
<rbasak> rafaeldtinoco is around
<rafaeldtinoco> im here leaving at 12:30
<rafaeldtinoco> o/
<rafaeldtinoco> (in 20 min from now)
<ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco i think you mentioned you would chair today right?
<ddstreet> or not anymore?
<rafaeldtinoco> I did ?
<ddstreet> in -dmb channel
<rafaeldtinoco> i dont recall
<ddstreet> as teward couldn't make it today
<rafaeldtinoco> sorry, I have a doc appt soon
<rafaeldtinoco> yep, i might have forgotten
<rafaeldtinoco> can u take it ?
<ddstreet> np, i'm up next on the list
<ddstreet> yep
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks dan!
<ddstreet> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 24 15:10:34 2020 UTC.  The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<ddstreet> should be a short mtg today i think
<ddstreet> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<ddstreet> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<rafaeldtinoco> carry over again pls
<rafaeldtinoco> almost freeze date, no free time lately
<ddstreet> #action rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
<ddstreet> #subtopic slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal
<ddstreet> checking the pkgset, looks like it's not done, i'll carry over
<ddstreet> #action slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal (carried over)
<ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset
<ddstreet> not done yet, carrying over again
<ddstreet> #action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
<ddstreet> #subtopic rbasak to take care of the canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation
<rafaeldtinoco> give him a min
<rafaeldtinoco> he is talking in a meeting
<rbasak> Done, though I need to reply to the ML I think to confirm
<rbasak> So please carry over for me to write it up
<ddstreet> #action rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
<ddstreet> that appears to be all that's on the agenda
<ddstreet> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: aob
<ddstreet> anything else?
<rafaeldtinoco> not from me
<ddstreet> unless i missed anything from the ML
<rafaeldtinoco> I did the ubuntustudio changes
<rafaeldtinoco> so yep, looks like we are done
<ddstreet> awesome, so last item
<ddstreet> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting
<ddstreet> i'll move myself to the back, leaving teward and rafaeldtinoco at the top for next mtg
<rafaeldtinoco> sounds good
<ddstreet> i think we're done!
<ddstreet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 15:18:58 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-24-15.10.moin.txt
<ddstreet> thanks all o/
<rafaeldtinoco> thanks ddstreet o/
* barjavel.freenode.net changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-25
<cpaelzer> o/
<didrocks1> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<cpaelzer> doko: (unavailable) didrocks1: ddstreet: sarnold: jamespage: ping for MIR meeting that is about to start
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 25 14:31:19 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> o/
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of pre
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of pre
<cpaelzer> old log had no actions http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-18-14.31.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> except a bunch of MIRs we assigned to us
<cpaelzer> but that was true for most recent weeks
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current compo
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> mostly usual suspects by now
<cpaelzer> for kronos management will find the new owner
<cpaelzer> paramiko, masakari are on jamespage still
<cpaelzer> ...
<cpaelzer> new are packagekit -> gnome-software
<sarnold> hmm, does anyone know off-hand if sphinx-rtd-theme-common needs to be in main?
<cpaelzer> that has an approved MIr already and should be re-promoted (gnome-software)
<cpaelzer> ip-usb is mostly ready from the MIR team side, but waiting for security reviews
<cpaelzer> now to sphinx that sarnold asked
<didrocks1> cpaelzer: ipp-usb needs a new look for the new version, I can do it if you prefer
<didrocks1> (new version with removed deps)
<cpaelzer> I can do that didrocks1
<cpaelzer> as I did the first round
<didrocks1> ack
<cpaelzer> sarnold: sphinx-rtd-theme isn't seeded directly
<cpaelzer> sarnold: it has a long revdep list but nothing in there seems super important
<cpaelzer> let us check germinate
<cpaelzer> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.groovy/all+extra
<cpaelzer> python-openssl-doc
<cpaelzer> Rescued from pyopenssl
<cpaelzer> it seems to be an auto-promotion
<cpaelzer> and yes it doesn't have to be there
<cpaelzer> it needs an extra exclude
<cpaelzer> I can handle that if you want
<sarnold> hooray :)
<cpaelzer> I think we are ok with the rest of mismatches for today
<cpaelzer> after the golang explosion last week it feels so small
<cpaelzer> and we have enough new MIRs to assign
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
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<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> let us start with this one by sarnold
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pam-pkcs11/+bug/1892559
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892559 in pcsc-tools (Ubuntu) "[MIR] ccid libpam-pkcs1 libpcsc-perl opensc pcsc-tools" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> 5 srouce packages
<cpaelzer> source
<cpaelzer> sarnold: what is the timeline on these ?
<cpaelzer> completely done before 20.10 FF (in two days) ? :-P
<sarnold> cpaelzer: as usual, the real goal is 22.04 but these are the sort of thing that ought tobe in a release or two beforehand to shake out what issues can be shaken out
<cpaelzer> we have enough others left to assign to all of you, I'm ok taking these
<cpaelzer> on 1892559 for me
<cpaelzer> but it might take more than this week sarnold
<cpaelzer> assigning myself
<cpaelzer> next a bunch of things all related to flatpack
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libselinux/+bug/1892455
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892455 in libselinux (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libselinux1" [Medium,New]
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/malcontent/+bug/1892456
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892456 in malcontent (Ubuntu) "[MIR] malcontent" [Medium,New]
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flatpak/+bug/1812456
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1812456 in flatpak (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libflatpak0" [Medium,New]
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ostree/+bug/1892454
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892454 in ostree (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libostree-1-1" [Medium,New]
<cpaelzer> sarnold: ddstreet: didrocks1: could I ask each of you to grab one and one of you to grab twice?
<cpaelzer> please assign yourself on the bugs
<cpaelzer> volunteers speak your chosen package please
<cpaelzer> umm
<cpaelzer> ok -1
<cpaelzer>  libselinux | 3.1-2            | groovy         | source
<cpaelzer> this is in main already
<cpaelzer> which sarnold already said on the bug
<cpaelzer> let us mark it incomplete so it goes away
<cpaelzer> done
<cpaelzer> now it is fair, one for each of you
<cpaelzer> jamespage: ^^ also feel free to grab one
<didrocks1> I will discuss flatpak and ostree, but I doubt that would be a +1
<didrocks1> weâll see
<ddstreet> i can take malcontent
<cpaelzer> ok please assign yourself on the bugs then
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> NEW is now clear except the special case of oem-*
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
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<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> google-guest-agent ws reviewded by didrocks1
<cpaelzer> and is waiting for input
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> usbguard was confirmed to be revisited later
<cpaelzer> those were the only recent updates
<cpaelzer> we are good here
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other bus
<cpaelzer> I wanted to ask about recent MIR review assignings
<cpaelzer> did everyone get to complete the old ones (not those we assigned today obviously) ?
<cpaelzer> or are any still open?
<sarnold> I haven't finished mine yet
<cpaelzer> and you didn't get new ones today which is a match
<cpaelzer> do you think you'll get to it until next weeks meeting?
<sarnold> yes, I do, but I probably would have said that in the two previous meetings, too. :/
<cpaelzer> ok, fingers crossed then
<ddstreet> i haven't managed to get to mine yet, but i have time reserved this week to get it done
<cpaelzer> anything else
<cpaelzer> ok I hope this works out this week ddstreet
<cpaelzer> well, then let us close this on time
<cpaelzer> see you all
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Aug 25 14:59:30 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-25-14.31.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
<didrocks1> thx :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-26
<cpaelzer> didrocks: if I might ask this https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/+merge/389840 is for the py doc causing trouble in component mismatches yesterday
<cpaelzer> didrocks: maybe you find the 5 min to review and merge this?
<didrocks999> cpaelzer: and done :)
<cpaelzer> great, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-08-27
<rbalint> o/
<slyon> o/
<mclemenceau> o/
<waveform> o/
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 27 15:04:03 2020 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<sil2100> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<sil2100> waveform mwhudson xnox vorlon sil2100 tdaitx slyon bdmurray rbalint doko juliank infinity
<waveform> argh, the pain of winning
<waveform> * Investigated net.ifnames=0 situation (with kind assistance from xnox); working on resolution for all branches of Core20 and groovy (unsure about focal) (LP: #1782185)
<waveform> * Investigated eth dhcp issue on core20 further; still unable to reproduce but looking at potential DHCP timing issues (LP: #1878640; https://github.com/snapcore/core20/issues/80)
<waveform> * Quick dig into cloud-init for long-standing pi wifi on first boot issue (LP: #1870346; LP: #1892851)
<waveform> * pi-gadget work for desktop
<waveform> * Lots of pibootctl work
<waveform> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1782185 in linux-azure-edge (Ubuntu Xenial) "linux-azure-edge: 4.15.0-1018.18~16.04.1 -proposed tracker" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1782185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878640 in netplan.io (Ubuntu Groovy) "uc20 image on pi often cannot get ip addr via eth0 on first boot of run mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870346 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Wifi configuration" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870346
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892851 in cloud-init "Staged boot, to fix integration of systemd generators" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892851
<xnox> microcode-initrd waiting for binary-new 2nd week now https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/groovy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=microcode-initrd
<xnox> s390-tools uploaded, in signing unapproved https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/groovy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=s390-tools
<xnox> secureboot-db SRUs reuploaded with breaks, all in unapproved queues
<xnox> libffi8ubuntu1 transition in progress, most things rebuild, still waiting for ghc builds to do haskell rebuilds. But then this transition ties together glib2.0 ocaml ghc libffi and all the things basically
<xnox> Submitted grub-install backup-and-restore patch upstream and to debian, todo submit to ubuntu. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2020-08/msg00069.html and https://salsa.debian.org/grub-team/grub/-/merge_requests/21/diffs
<xnox> CET has a resolution for mozjs / libunwind, both uploaded
<xnox> fixing things for proposed-migration
<xnox> at linux plumbers this week, mostly trolling people
<xnox> done
<vorlon>  * customer-specific SecureBoot key generation and sharding
<vorlon>  * NEW processing
<vorlon>  * livecd-rootfs MP reviews
<vorlon>  * triggered some builds for the libffi transition, to be able to see what's what
<vorlon>  * component-mismatches cleanup for udebs
<vorlon> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Some kernel SRU work
<sil2100> - Investigated broken Bileto OpenID login, tested flask OID locally, identified corrupted OID storage on Bileto - fixed with IS
<sil2100> - Finalizing Eoan EOL
<sil2100> - Releasing new, updated appliances
<sil2100> - Releasing refreshed UC16 images
<sil2100> - Some more work on continuous gadget delivery
<sil2100> - HWE sync
<sil2100> - Point-release retrospective
<sil2100> - +1 maintenance
<sil2100> - Fighting with IPv6 on my system (to reproduce an autopkgtest issue)
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> let me go last
<slyon> - Kicked sensible-utils to migrate, bug #1891196
<slyon>   * hinted git-buildpackage, triggered ranger tests
<slyon>   * got gbp fixed upstream, debian bug #968982
<slyon> - SRU verification: awscli, python-botocore, python-s3transfer
<slyon>   * bug #1867673, bug #1875485, bug #1880999
<slyon> - Poked Debian maintainers about pexpect ftbfs
<slyon>   * https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/modules/pexpect/-/merge_requests/2
<slyon> - SRU verification: command-not-found, bug #1875760
<ubottu> bug 1891196 in sensible-utils (Ubuntu) "FTBFS because of porefs=noline,wrap is unrecognized" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891196
<ubottu> Debian bug 968982 in git-buildpackage "git-buildpackage: autopkgtest/smoke-rpm is broken in "gbp buildpackage-rpm"" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/968982
<ubottu> bug 1867673 in awscli (Ubuntu Focal) "[SRU] awscli not kept up to date" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867673
<ubottu> bug 1875485 in python-botocore (Ubuntu Focal) "[SRU] python-botocore out of date" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875485
<ubottu> bug 1880999 in python-s3transfer (Ubuntu Focal) "SRU: bump version to make compatible with upstream awscli requirements" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880999
<ubottu> bug 1875760 in command-not-found (Ubuntu Focal) "/usr/lib/cnf-update-db:sqlite3.OperationalError:/usr/lib/cnf-update-db@26:create" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875760
<slyon> === Netplan ===
<slyon> - Prepared cloud-init vs netplan vs systemd report, bug #1892851
<slyon> - Finished implementation of OVS settings tagging, PR#158
<slyon> - Improved wireguard PR#113
<slyon> - Thought about primary vs secondary IP addresses (aliases)
<slyon>   * Probably wont-fix, bug #1766656
<slyon> - Prepared PR#159 to fix IP cleanup, bug #1870561
<slyon> - Started working on IPv6 token, bug #1737976
<slyon> (done)
<ubottu> bug 1892851 in cloud-init "Staged boot, to fix integration of systemd generators" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892851
<ubottu> bug 1766656 in netplan "Order of addresses is not defined" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766656
<ubottu> bug 1870561 in netplan "netplan does not clean-up IPs on UC20/kvm, when changing the renderer" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870561
<ubottu> bug 1737976 in nplan (Ubuntu) "netplan cannot set IPv6 token" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1737976
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: wireshark 3.2.6-1
<rbalint> * partner work
<sil2100> Oh, and reviewing the PR from slyon! Since that's ongoing too!
<rbalint> * sponsored python-botocore Xenial SRU
<rbalint> * merged resolvconf as 1.84ubuntu1
<rbalint> * merged systemd as 246.2-1ubuntu1 and added a few extra fixes
<rbalint> (public holidays)
<rbalint> * filed LP: #1892903
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892903 in libreswan (Ubuntu) "autopkgtest with needs-internet restriction fails" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892903
<rbalint> * got systemd migrated
<rbalint> * triaged pre-tested bionic glibc SRU regressions (ongoing)
<rbalint> * still preparing glibc upload
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> (done)
<sil2100> Julian's status update:
<sil2100> * half days: work in the morning, relax in the afternoon
<sil2100> * DebConf 20: Not much interesting stuff
<sil2100>   - attended some talks (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yCLHxKEueVhdIX22wZNFYH2iBZ2LUJzYNK43XhB3LUQ/edit)
<sil2100>   - autopkgtest BoF tomorrow at 1800 UTC (https://debconf20.debconf.org/talks/39-running-autopkgtest-for-your-package/)
<sil2100>   - missed the 'Lenovo + debian' talk as it was past midnight and I was asleep, but have recording to watch :)
<sil2100> * grub: SRUs looking good!
<sil2100>   - uploaded remaining grub SRUs for bionic, xenial
<sil2100>   - verified grub SRUs, except for the loopback issue on focal which xnox will look at
<sil2100>   - uploaded grub-zfstestsuite for focal to adjust for dis_ucode_ldr changes for recovery boot entries
<sil2100> * shim: One SRU looking bad!
<sil2100>   - seems I managed to not update shimx64.efi in bionic upload, somehow; fixed that
<sil2100> Brian's status update:
<sil2100> +1 maintenance
<sil2100> research into restore-new-distro (reinstall) failures and bug duplicate consolidation
<sil2100> SRU verification of LP: #1861451
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861451 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport's cloud-init-specific handling tracebacks on minimal cloud images" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1861451
<sil2100> sorted out how LP: #1888916 failed and uploaded groovy, focal fixes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1888916 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Focal) "release upgrader can restore sources.list file from a previous release upgrade" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888916
<sil2100> sponsored Focal SRU for LP: #1611737
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1611737 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "Can't upgrade from a release if ros packages are installed from ROS servers" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1611737
<sil2100> wrote query to remove old snap crash data from cassandra and doing so
<sil2100> sponsored apport upload of a fix for LP: #1888352
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1888352 in OEM Priority Project "use builtin dump_acpi_tables.py in hookutils" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888352
<sil2100> added RebootRequiredPkgs to apport's data collection
<sil2100> Ok, now just tdaitx is left!
<tdaitx> * backported scilab from groovy, testing, planning to SRU it
<tdaitx> * fixed pyparted ftbfs, needs upload
<tdaitx> * fixed python_dateutil, needs some testing then upload
<tdaitx> * working on libgitlab-api-v4-perl
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - using autpkgtest for building stuff on sbuild, its a bit weird
<tdaitx> - moved to new yubikey as my usb-c port is taken by the e-gpu
<tdaitx> (done)
<sil2100> Any questions for these?
<sil2100> Let's move on then
<sil2100> #topic Release incoming bugs (focal)
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<sil2100> Whoops
<sil2100> SHould be groovy first?
 * vorlon nods
<sil2100> #topic Release incoming bugs (groovy)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bug
<sil2100> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<sil2100> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/1871538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871538 in dbus (Ubuntu Focal) "dbus timeout-ed during an upgrade, taking services down including gdm" [High,Confirmed]
<vorlon> I think desktop was looking at this one last I knew?  We've discussed it before and I believe didn't take it
<sil2100> Then should we leave it there for now?
<vorlon> yes
<sil2100> LP: #1891952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891952 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved not started when networking enabled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891952
<vorlon> I thought xnox had some interest in this one
<sil2100> Should we assign it to xnox then? :)
<sil2100> Ok, targeted for groovy then
<vorlon> seems we have a trello card for it already and the bug may have been fixed, so we just need to target the bug and remove the tag
<vorlon> (done)
<sil2100> LP: #1892040
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892040 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Focal) "US keyboard layout even if a non english language is selected in ubiquity-dm" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892040
<vorlon> this is already targeted to focal so it should be targeted to groovy as well. I know we discussed this one before
<sil2100> Targeting then
<vorlon> I think we should take it and dig down to figure out why we regressed
<mclemenceau> yes this one was discussed last week and had been carded
<sil2100> I'll remove both the incoming tags then
<vorlon> was it carded? that wasn't clear to me from the meeting log
<vorlon> ok
<sil2100> LP: #1891623
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1891623 in gcc-10 (Ubuntu) "Can't build Libreoffice with gcc-10, always ends with a Segmentation Fault in the build or resulting binaries" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1891623
<sil2100> Ok, this one was carded as well apparently
<sil2100> So removing the tag and targeting
<sil2100> LP: #1876258
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1876258 in MAAS 2.8 "ubuntu 20.04 pxe installation fails with no such file or directory /dev/disk/by-id exception" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876258
<vorlon> "when I run ubuntu 20.04 live cd via PXE" :/
<vorlon> it looks like it's being fixed in curtin?
<sil2100> Yeah, wonder if it needs any grub changes in that case?
<sil2100> Should we ask on the bug?
<vorlon> seems to be a problem of curtin injecting a value into grub's debconf variable that is then invalid
<vorlon> I don't think we should do anything here presently
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> LP: #1892526
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892526 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "dpkg-reconfigure grub-pc no longer prompts for grub-pc/install_devices" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892526
<vorlon> that needs to be targeted and carded, I don't even know why it's in incoming
<vorlon> targeted to all series now
<sil2100> Thanks o/
<mclemenceau> carded!
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> LP: #1892728
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1892728 in ec2-hibinit-agent (Ubuntu) "ec2-hibinit-agent needs to properly initialize swap file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1892728
<rbalint> i think we should take this
<vorlon> agreed
<sil2100> I see rbalint already had a look at this?
<sil2100> Targeting
<vorlon> iirc this is caused by a kernel behavior change?
<rbalint> vorlon, yes
<vorlon> that's it for gg
<vorlon> ff?
<sil2100> mclemenceau will card it, I targeted it just now
<sil2100> Yep!
<sil2100> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<sil2100> LP: #1847191
<mclemenceau> done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1847191 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Selected experimental ZFS otion and install in QEMU/KVM and crashed" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847191
<vorlon> the first one has jibel as an assignee
<vorlon> so not for us
<sil2100> LP: #1627564
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1627564 in debconf (Ubuntu) "Debconf crash due to assertion failure in ensure_surface_for_gicon [gtkiconhelper.c:493] (when png loader is missing/during upgrades)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627564
<vorlon> looks like desktop team evaluated it and determined that it should go to debconf
<vorlon> for error handling of gtk in cases where it fails
<vorlon> so I guess we need to take it
<sil2100> +1
<vorlon> 1871538, already discussed under gg
<sil2100> Targeted
<sil2100> Ok so now LP: #1880193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1880193 in autofs (Ubuntu) "autofs: Assertion 'set_remove(iterator->links, link) == link' failed at src/shared/userdb.c:314, function userdb_on_query_reply(). Aborting." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880193
<vorlon> this has a trello card already
<vorlon> what's with all these trello cards without bug fixups ;)
<vorlon> but it also has a server team assignee
<vorlon> we should target it anyway and remove the tag
<sil2100> SO maybe we won't need the card for this one!
<vorlon> I'll leave the card in the backlog for now
<vorlon> I like having cards to clean up from the backlog later because someone else fixed them
<sil2100> ;)
<vorlon> 1892040, already handled
<sil2100> LP: #1872106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1872106 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "isc-dhcp-server crashing constantly [Ubuntu 20.04]" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1872106
<sil2100> Last one!
<vorlon> this one also looks familiar
<sil2100> I think we should card it if there is no card yet
<sil2100> Looks like quite a few people are affected
<mclemenceau> no card at the moment
<sil2100> Ok, I think that's it
<sil2100> Next section!
<sil2100> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migrat
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<sil2100> vorlon: ^
<vorlon> not looking too bad
<vorlon> lapack is still with waveform
<rbalint> gce is mir
<vorlon> waveform: have you spent time on this?
<vorlon> right
<vorlon> pam is mine
<vorlon> sil2100: dnspython is yours
<vorlon> tdaitx: libgitlab-api-v4-perl is yours
<vorlon> setuptools is xnox
<waveform> vorlon, spent time on attempting to spin up a ppc64 instance, so far unsuccessfully (though xnox did aid in getting me access to a MAAS instance this week - though I've failed to login to it so far!)
<waveform> from other investigation it looks like a -O2 vs -O3 issue on gcc-10 though (yet to actually confirm that though)
<sil2100> vorlon: yes, didn't quite make much progress as I wanted to make sure the dnspython is not a real regression, as the tests are passing on Debian CI - I suspect the reason is the proxied environment, but need to make 100% sure
<vorlon> waveform: ok, how does that relate to the amd64 autopkgtest regression, which is the blocker for the current version in -proposed? did you need sourceful fixes to lapack to fix that autopkgtest regression?
<sil2100> And IPv6 hates me
<vorlon> heh
<vorlon> ok so related to that bit of your status report :)
<vorlon> so now we get to the new ones for this week
<sil2100> Yeah, will continue on that a bit, but so far my attempts on getting an IPv6 configuration via the VPN failed
<vorlon> zope.interface: rbalint?
<rbalint> sil2100, ipv6 loves sil21:: :-)
<vorlon> rbalint: lol
<vorlon> lintian is still with juliank, I believe
<rbalint> vorlon, i'm very busy with glibc, but tentatively i can pick it
<vorlon> iputils v libreswan, I swear I saw an MP for a libreswan hint recently
<slyon> rbalint: vorlon, I can have a look at zope as well
<sil2100> libreswan was passing now I think
<vorlon> slyon: ok great, it's yours instead of rbalint's then
<vorlon> I'll follow up on iputils v libreswan
<vorlon> and that's all for this week
<rbalint> libreswan just needs retries
<sil2100> At least I remember seeing a new libreswan upload that migrated and skipped the tests that it cannot run due to the environment
<sil2100> So yeah, a retry should do it!
<rbalint> slyon, thanks!
<vorlon> rbalint: hence I've given myself the easy assignment
<sil2100> Ok, so I guess we're good
<sil2100> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<sil2100> AOB anyone?
<sil2100> Going one
<sil2100> Going two
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Aug 27 15:41:19 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-27-15.04.moin.txt
<sil2100> Whoops!
<rbalint> yes, i'd like to upload glibc 2.31-3ubuntu1 today
<vorlon> for those working on proposed-migration over the coming week, libffi is going to take some work
<sil2100> ACK
<rbalint> with the fixes that are planned to be sru-d for focal, because glibc2.32 is complicated and needs time for the transitions
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> any eta on glibc 2.32 upload then? given impending feature freeze
<vorlon> like, today
<vorlon> sil2100: are you planning on sending mails about FF? :)
<rbalint> vorlon, the plan was this week +-1 week, and i think it will be able to land 2 weeks from now
<sil2100> I was about to ask the same thing!
<rbalint> due to dropped libraries
<vorlon> ok
<sil2100> vorlon: I see it was usually you sending those, so maybe you could do it this time as well? A bit around your EOD
<vorlon> ok
<sil2100> To give some more time for people that are late
<sil2100> Thanks!
