#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-16
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityInfrastructure if people want to help with that it would be great
<AlanBell> going to make it a blog article then wiki page
<MrChrisDruif> Ahh...orangy :D
<MrChrisDruif> ....no, not blue <_<"
<cprofitt> nice AlanBell 
<cprofitt> that was a good read
<AlanBell> need TheMuso and maco do explain more of the at-spi and qt-at-spi stuff
<hajour> hi all
<MrChrisDruif> Aloha hajour 
<hajour> hi MrChrisDruif 
<AlanBell> hi hajour, did you enjoy UDS?
<hajour> yes last 2 days most AlanBell 
<hajour> no last 3
<UndiFineD> AlanBell, is this pad for Ubuntu-Manual ?
<AlanBell> not really, but I suppose it could be
<UndiFineD> I think it would be very readable
<UndiFineD> http://pad.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityInfrastructure <- hajour 
<hajour> ok thanks UndiFineD 
<AlanBell> TheMuso suggested writing something like that so people know how the Ubuntu accessibility infrastructure slots together
<UndiFineD> Well the manual needs a chpter on it anyways
<AlanBell> I think he was a bit perplexed by whatever it is that browserspeak is attempting to do
<UndiFineD> so I think this could be used there
<AlanBell> sure, it can go in the manual, that would be great
<AlanBell> I will also run it past Amber to see if she wants any of it for the official book
<UndiFineD> AlanBell, well eventually I hope to see SpeechControl like: Simon Listens -> command execution -> output humanification -> speechdispatcher
<hajour> AlanBell, we can suggest to make a option to choose to have lines or speak or boths
<UndiFineD> the first 2 are already there and the last, we are just missing the humanification
<AlanBell> the first two are not in Ubuntu
<hajour> i can take contact with them about that
<UndiFineD> AlanBell, as I understand bedahr is still working on that
<AlanBell> hajour: not sure I understand about lines?
<hajour> i can read finally my mail now very happy about that
<hajour> well i just thought about a thing
<hajour> they want to get rid of fonts by the buttons from firefox ect
<hajour> and replace it with speech
<hajour> but
<hajour> i was thinking i not sure about that so just  fill me more in.do braille programs not need just the fonts also?
<hajour> i mean do braille programs the fonts
<hajour> AlanBell, 
<AlanBell> really not sure what you mean now
<AlanBell> braille does not have fonts, it is a pattern of dots
<hajour> yes i know
<AlanBell> orca can output to braille readers
<hajour> ok great
<hajour> was afraid i had make mistake AlanBell 
<hajour> i am only human i learn everyday more
<AlanBell> you mean "text" rather than "font"?
<AlanBell> font is the shape or style of letters
<hajour> they want replace font by speech
<MrChrisDruif> hajour; The same input used to make speech can be used for input in braille machine afaik
<hajour> what i really would like to know or the fonts are needed still somewhere for a accessibility program AlanBell 
<AlanBell> you really don't mean fonts!
<AlanBell> so a gtk button widget should have an accessible name which orca can read, even if it has no text lable associated with it
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display
<hajour> o how it is called then AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> I think you are talking about a text label on a button
<AlanBell> a font is a typeface
<hajour> the pic s what are on a tabel AlanBell 
<AlanBell> sorry, I don't understand
<hajour> a icon
<hajour> just heard from UndiFineD 
<hajour> go over the icon with your mouse and then it speaks
<AlanBell> so in the orca preferences check the "speak object under mouse" checkbox
<hajour> yes that go work automatically 
<AlanBell> ok, but they are not going to enable at-spi and orca by default
<AlanBell> or have the computer making noises by default
<hajour> just have read back AlanBell  thanks for explaining
<AlanBell> hi all
<AlanBell> we talked some time ago about compiling a "most wanted" list of a11y applications
<AlanBell> any suggestions for such a list?
<MrChrisDruif> speechcontrol ;)
<fregl> maco: there you have my proposal to get rid of QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 on the mailing lists
<maco> yay!
 * AlanBell wonders if maco has a few minutes to look at http://pad.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityInfrastructure
<AlanBell> maco: I was mostly guessing at the at-spi and qt-at-spi stuff so feel free to correct me
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/Goals ?
<charlie-tca> or maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware
<charlie-tca> or a page linked from one of those?
<maco> AlanBell: looking
<maco> AlanBell: sorry im an auto-editor, so you're getting spelling/capitalisation/etc. stuff in here too
<AlanBell> yay
<MrChrisDruif> Ahhh, charlie-tca :D
<MrChrisDruif> I wanted to talk to you :)
<maco> AlanBell: should i or shouldnt i add kxkbd to the onscreen kbd section?
<AlanBell> you should :)
<MrChrisDruif> charlie-tca; are you available for a small chat?
<charlie-tca> sure, got about 3 minutes now
<MrChrisDruif> xD
<MrChrisDruif> Might cut it close
<charlie-tca> busy day today for me
<MrChrisDruif> Alrighty; you are test-manager or something for one of the Ubuntu projects or something?
<charlie-tca> may have to head out of town again tonight to see a friend that won't make the night
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> I test a lot of images
<charlie-tca> and I am the Xubuntu Project testing lead
<charlie-tca> and I seem to be the accessibility testing person too
<MrChrisDruif> That was it....anyhow, what does it mean to be testing lead?
<charlie-tca> It means writing the test cases, which describe how to test the image or applications, do the tests, file bugs when things fail, follow up and test again when something changes
<charlie-tca> maintain the testing pages of the team wiki, make sure people know to contact for issues with testing
<charlie-tca> I downÄºoad and test up to 8 images a day
<MrChrisDruif> .....O_O
<MrChrisDruif> O......M......G......!
<MrChrisDruif> 8?
<MrChrisDruif> Different distros?
<charlie-tca> and I told kubuntu I would add their accessibility testing to my lists
<charlie-tca> ubuntu alternate and desktop, 32 and 64bit
<charlie-tca> xubuntu alternate and desktop, 32 and 64 bit
<charlie-tca> studio alternate 32 and 64 bit
<MrChrisDruif> Ahh, alright
<charlie-tca> and server images
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, that would be 4 per distro
<charlie-tca> it takes me about 4 to 6 hours to zsync right now
<charlie-tca> and now, add Kubuntu
<MrChrisDruif> zsync?
<charlie-tca> replacement for rsync, so you don't have to download the complete image each time
<charlie-tca> it just grabs the changes and adds them in to the image on the hard disk
<MrChrisDruif> That would be so awesome =-O :D:D
<MrChrisDruif> That would also help *my idea*
<charlie-tca> That means if I have to download the entire images, I can not do it in 24 hours
<MrChrisDruif> Slow connection?
<charlie-tca> very
<MrChrisDruif> Dial-up?
<charlie-tca> about 8 hours for the ubuntu dvd
<charlie-tca> no, broadband
<charlie-tca> 1.2 Mb/s
<MrChrisDruif> But 8 hours for dvd?
<charlie-tca> except reality is 256 kb
<MrChrisDruif> Torrents ftw
<MrChrisDruif> Where could I get started on getting set up? What kinds of tests should I think of etc?
<charlie-tca> for?
<charlie-tca> start with basic user installation. What does the user need to do to make the install work?
<charlie-tca> Can the user get a part of the app working, then must configure things?
<MrChrisDruif> Head of Testing
<charlie-tca> Do they need to add any library files?
<maco> AlanBell: ok, there are some edits
<charlie-tca> when the software is installed, does it work or must they first do something?
<charlie-tca> If it works, are there shortcut keys that can be used? do they all work?
<AlanBell> thanks maco 
<charlie-tca> Does the software actually do what the user expects instead of what the developers expect?
<MrChrisDruif> There isn't a page about that? What kind of tests do you do for the images?
<charlie-tca> The tests we do we wrote
<charlie-tca> Here is the page of QA tests - http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/
<charlie-tca> note there are install tests, and application tests
<charlie-tca> for the images, we do about 8 tests per image just to test the installs
<charlie-tca> anything that does not work according to the user expectations is a fail
<charlie-tca> The fact that something works for 32bit does not mean woriking in 64bit. Working on desktop image can still fail on alternate image
<charlie-tca> okay, gotta run
<MrChrisDruif> Thanks so far charlie-tca, well talk again :)
<MrChrisDruif> we'll*
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-17
<TheMuso> maco: Is it ok if I assign the QT/Kaccessible work items to you for the ubiquity accessibility review?
<TheMuso> maco: i.e 
<TheMuso> maco: i.e  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-accessibility-ubiquity
<AlanBell> hi TheMuso 
<AlanBell> TheMuso: can you check if this makes sense http://pad.ubuntu.com/AccessibilityInfrastructure (same thing as plain text http://paste.ubuntu.com/608826/ )
<maco> TheMuso: yep
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-18
<valorie> dropped out of here somehow
<hajour> hi mhall119, 
<hajour> are there issues known from using xchat with edubuntu?
<mhall119> hajour: not that I know of, but I don't use xchat at all, so I wouldn't know
<hajour> but i have tried several irc chats out
<MrChrisDruif> What with xchat?
<hajour> and xchat is for me most accessibly
<MrChrisDruif> hajour; What was your question?
<hajour> it let in combination from edubuntu run stuck my pc
<hajour> then i need to put out my pc by button on laptop cant click then on nothing anymore
<hajour> so i was wondering or there also others who have that report
<hajour> also where i meant
<MrChrisDruif> ????????
<hajour> ok same in dutch
<hajour> als ik edubuntu gebruik en xchat gebruik samen.loopt me pc vast.en moet ik de laptop uitzetten met uitknop
<hajour> en ik vroeg me af of er meer mensen waren met dat probleem
<hajour> MrChrisDruif, ^
<MrChrisDruif> And with other distros (like Lubuntu, normal Ubuntu) it works fine?
<hajour> yes
<hajour> only edubuntu gives problems with xchat
<MrChrisDruif> I don't run edubuntu, so I don't know
<hajour> last 4 days happened at least 5 times
<MrChrisDruif> But Edubuntu is Ubuntu with all proprietary stuff removed right?
<hajour> its a educucation distro MrChrisDruif 
<hajour> used by schools also
<MrChrisDruif> Yes, but it's that because of all possibilities of laws infringement is removed
<MrChrisDruif> Afaik
<hajour> mhall119, is from edubuntu
<hajour> he knows much from edubuntu
<maco> MrChrisDruif: its ubuntu with educational tools added on
<maco> MrChrisDruif: ubuntu has no proprietary stuff by default
<maco> edubuntu just adds education games, internet filter, etc.
<MrChrisDruif> I thought it was something like that....
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, never really interested in it (no personal interest, maybe when I wanted to use it at a school or something)
<maco> it sounds funny to me that adding KHangman and such would break xchat
<hajour> i not know what is changed last week
<hajour> in edubuntu was on uds
<hajour> had no time read mails hardly was on chat
<hajour> bah again
<hajour> this is become annoying
<hajour> becoming i mean
<hajour> this is third time now this evening in several hours
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-19
<hajour> hi AlanBell 
<hajour> AlanBell,  xchat already trying to get chances done for accessibility things and also for make faster and have ask often for some changes grr cant remember which one anymore .but already half year.and would really appreciate some help to compliance that.for me now already xchat is making irc most accessible for me and i have tried out several
<hajour> just wanted to inform you ala
<hajour> AlanBell, 
<MrChrisDruif> hajour; I think AlanBell is asleep or something, as he's grayed out with me, which indicates he's inactive
<hajour> well MrChrisDruif  he will read back
<MrChrisDruif> :P
<hajour> just was remembering me i had promise to tell it
<hajour> i had promised the people from xchat i would do that
<hajour> goodnight all
<mhall119> AlanBell: Pendulum: ping
<AlanBell> o/ mhall119 
<mhall119> AlanBell: probably an unnecessary question now, but if we put the main navigation links for a website in an iframe, does that screw with accessibility?
<AlanBell> it might not help :)
<charlie-tca> The newest scrollbar change looks easier to use - http://iloveubuntu.net/ayatana-overlay-scrollbars-02-released-orange-borders-and-new-visibility-behavior-natty-testing-ppa
<Pendulum> AlanBell: pong
<AlanBell> wasn't me
<Pendulum> mhall119: pong
<Pendulum> oh, wait was answered
<mhall119> that's ok
<Pendulum> mhall119: how's you?
<mhall119> like I said, we'd already decided not to use iframes, so the question was moot
<mhall119> Pendulum: doing surprisingly well, no ubuflu for me
<mhall119> you?
<Pendulum> I was thinking of you all today because we were were at a train museum Q would like
<Pendulum> tired
<Pendulum> in Baltimore for a week of medical testing
<mhall119> I saw your status on FB
<mhall119> testing for the same stuff, or different stuff?
<Cheri703> side note to Pendulum (Hi :) and there's a u-w meeting :) )
<Pendulum> this is all testing to see about what neurosurgery I do/don't need this summer
<Pendulum> Cheri703: I got fewer than 6 hours sleep and spent over an hour this morning in testing and this is my first chance to nap. So I think I will miss this one ;-)
<Cheri703> Completely understandable!
<hajour1> TheMuso, can i pm you?
<hajour1> well it also can here
<hajour1> i want to ask or you want take over team leadership from speechcontrol or integrate it in orca
<hajour1> because i go resign from speechcontrol
<hajour1> i can you mail trough mail adresses from contacts i had made on uds after asking the persons or it is ok to give it to you. 
<TheMuso> hajour1: Thanks for the offer, but I am already pushing myself as to the amount of work I have to do for Ubuntu this cycle, so I will have to politely decline the offer.
<hajour1> themuso i wouold apriciate some advice who would be good to give leadership over from speechcontrol .i would apriciate if you would mail me some advice about this
<TheMuso> hajour1: I really don't know of anybody I could recommend I'm affraid.
<hajour1> mm okey thanks anyway TheMuso 
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-20
<webczat> Hey.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-21
<hajour1> hi webczat :)
<hajour1> i am on undifineds pc now he sleeps
<hajour1> i am bored nothing to do on the moment.my documents are on my other daughters laptop and she have take it with her to her boyfriend to study there for her exam
<valorie> hajour, have you thought about putting your docs into UbuntuOne
<valorie> or Dropbox?
<valorie> so you can always get to them?
<hajour1> o not had thought on that valorie  thanks for remembering me
<valorie> Jono's post about it made me think 
<valorie> blog, I mean
<hajour1> ik hope hypatitia will remember to ask for that link for learning python ect for people with learn issues on her friend
<valorie> ubuntuone isn't working for me yet in kubuntu, but some folks are working on that
<hajour1> or is it at
<valorie> so I hope soon
<valorie> just remind her if she doesn't
<hajour1> valorie, is it at her friend or on?
<valorie> I'm not sure
<valorie> sorry, I need to take care of my old dog
<valorie> sec
<hajour1> ok :)
<valorie> clouds moved in tonight, and now it's sprinkling!
<valorie> after the warmest day of the year so far
<valorie> still spring here, not summer yet
<valorie> for sure
<hajour1> i wish it was already summer 
<MrChrisDruif> In summer there still is rain
<hajour1> but its much warmer most of the time
<MrChrisDruif> hajour1; Our Spring was almost Summer already!
<MrChrisDruif> In terms of temperature
<hajour1> yes warm temp. means for me more moments i can play piano and if i can fix my klarinet also klarinet
<AlanBell> bug 786130
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 786130 in onboard "not present in unity application launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786130
<AlanBell> bug 786131
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 786131 in gnome-orca "not present in unity application launcher" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786131
<AlanBell> could someone confirm those and I will go fix them (it is the lack of an icon issue due to .desktop file setting for both)
<hajour1> AlanBell,  hi
<AlanBell> hi
<hajour1> how was it called i forgot.the name of program where you can klick on fonts in screen instead of keys
<hajour1> o was it called dasher right?
<hajour1> its for helping a person with spasm problem to give more options
<hajour1> in netherlands channel
<hajour1> AlanBell, ^
<hajour1> well nevermind the person is already left  so no need anymore sorry for bothering 
<MrChrisDruif> hajour1; it might still be handy for later ;)
<AlanBell> dasher is letters moving across the screen
<hajour1> yes but also words right if i remember good
 * hajour1 is digging in her brains to come by that info
<AlanBell> don't think it does words
<hajour1> need to go try using it again for to stay remembering it good for to be able to help better
<hajour1> just have get so much info last months
<hajour1> its not ordered right all
<hajour1> all info is not ordered on the right place yet
<hajour1> and thanks for the info AlanBell 
<hajour1> go doing something else i am not usable mostly now on irc
<hajour1> bye all and have fun
<hajour1> hi
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-22
 * Pendulum is feeling very weird due to her lack of action items at the moment
<Cheri703> Pendulum can just relax :)
<Pendulum> Cheri703: but I'm at a LoCo meetup I want to be doing something!
<Cheri703> you can rule with an iron fist!
<Cheri703> and delegate :)
<Pendulum> Cheri703: really I'm trying to look through and figure out if there are any a11y bugs I might be able to break into something that I can try to work on since I have maco here to tell me everything I'm doing wrong on the coding side :P
<Cheri703> hehe
<Pendulum> the problem being I have no idea what to look for :P
<Pendulum> UndiFineD: hey, are you awake?
<UndiFineD> yes
<Pendulum> may I PM you?
<UndiFineD> sure
<AlanBell> TheMuso: can we have a chat some point about the Ubuntu patches that set nodisplay=true in the .desktop file of orca and onboard
<Cheri703> AlanBell: at some point I'd like to continue the conversation we were having the other night, about non-NECESSARY reasons for using accessibility features, and how to promote that
<AlanBell> hi Cheri703 
<Cheri703> hi
<Cheri703> I have a bad habit of saying things on irc and then leaving the room to go do things :)
<TheMuso> AlanBell: Sure, but with  unity being used more so in the future, I wonder what use changing that will be.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-14
<Fudge> hi AlanBell , wondering if you can test espeakup in quntal when you get around to looking at it. locks my system up here
<AlanBell> ok, I have not installed quantal anywhere yet
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-15
<Fudge> AlanBell  thanks
<Fudge> :D
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-17
<Fudge> ls test
<Fudge> oops
<Fudge> orca starts on the ppa xubuntu-dev for 4.10 and from what i read that plus logging out and back in should enable the accessibility stuff but it doesnt seem to. anyone know how to do it
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-18
<jbicha> I was helping an older guy use Ubuntu today and wow, the high contrast theme has a bunch of usability problems
<jbicha> we ended up sticking with Ambiance because of it
<AlanBell> jbicha: yes, it hasn't really been maintained with all the changes that have been made to the desktop
<AlanBell> doing a high contrast variation of ambiance would be an interesting project
<AlanBell> even stuff like putting the window buttons on the left can break the expectations of what the theme should do
<AlanBell> plus all the nux stuff doesn't want to be themed
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-19
<Fudge> hi
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-05-14
<TheMuso> ./c
#ubuntu-accessibility 2017-05-21
<Carolina> is this place alive?
