#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-01
<Gnea> hi
<gotwig> Can I in theory upgrade directly from 11.10 to 12.10?
<Gnea> No.
<Gnea> the only way would not be an upgrade, but a complete re-install.
<Gnea> therefore, it would not be an upgrade.
<Gnea> but it would get you straight to 12.10
<MrChrisDruif> gotwig; but you can upgrade from 11.10 > 12.04 > 12.10...almost directly ;-)
<gotwig> MrChrisDruif, -.-
<MrChrisDruif> =)
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-02
<tiox> So what's with touching Ubuntu as of late?
<chu> I guess we'll know in <24 hours.
<tiox> I call smartphone OS.
<jussi> I call rubbish :P
<jussi> you have no idea whats going to hit you :P
<jussi> (nor do I for that matter)
<elky> jussi, if it's rubbish, turning the fan off might be wise :P
<dwatkins> I'm expecting a games console.
<chu> That'd be quite cool.
<dwatkins> considering the amount of effort Valve are putting in to getting Steam and some games ported, it wouldn't surprise me.
<chu> Hopefully.
<com12> any idea of what the annoucement will be
<Catbuntu> Hi
<Catbuntu> Hi bkerensa :)
<Catbuntu> Oh wrong nick, sorry
<chu> I imagine he'll begin soon.
<chu> But, I have been awake an ungodly amount of time and my body is starting to give up on me.
<Catbuntu> Oh, poor chu
<chu> I did it to myself, so no sympathy. See how long you can stay awake into the new year. It's not easy!
<Catbuntu> haha
<dwatkins> I made the mistake of staying awake all night the night before new year
<chu> You do it the night of new year!
<Catbuntu> That's why I use Mint, if anybody is interested: http://www.catbuntu.me/2013/01/my-2013-purpose-and-why-do-i-use-linux.html
<k1l> hmm. i see some problems in your point of view (which is ok, since its your opinion after all): listen-to-community; canoncical didnt remove gnome2, gnome dropped gnome2; why talking about a new user when you are not a new user?
<topyli> Neshemah: btw you don't have to change distributions just to change your desktop environment :-)
<Neshemah> topyli, I know, but e.g. Cinnamon on Ubuntu looks weird.
<JoseeAntonioR> The hangout for discussion about the product with Benjamin Kerensa, Bilal Akhtar and me has just started :)
<vibhav> Aw yeah
<mhall119> \o/
<popey> JoseeAntonioR: the omg post needs updating with the url?
<mhall119> bkerensa-ofc: is the OMG page going to be updated with the embedded hangout?
<vibhav> Yes
<JoseeAntonioR> mhall119: little problem, but working on it
<JoseeAntonioR> popey: it's being worked on
<highvoltage> hi
<cielak> hi!
<superdug_> so whats the announcement?
<davidcalle> Hey!
<popey> superdug_: coming soon
<JoseeAntonioR> OMG! Ubuntu! is now updated :)
<highvoltage> I guess you'd need to have Unity Touch before you could have any of those
<AbsintheSyringe> highvoltage, share the same thought :)
<bkerensa-ofc> mhall119: its up now
<bkerensa-ofc> mhall119: caching
<mhall119> bkerensa-ofc: watching :)
<popey> s/utouch/oif/
<bkerensa-ofc> mhall119: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-product-launch-omg-google-hangout
<mhall119> yeah, no more utouch
<popey> what other suggestions did omg come up with? you've said phone, what else?
<mhall119> bobble heads
<superdug_> "almost touch it" ... better be a damned tablet
<bigcalm> Best thing about this count down timer? 00:00:00 is when I can turn my machine off ;)
<popey> Ubuntu fridges!
<mhall119> toasters!
<vibhav> These are going to be the longest 7 minutes of my life
<highvoltage> Ubuntu would also be more useful on tablets than on phones
<davidcalle> Touch enabled glasses.
<highvoltage> (even more useful than android in many cases)
<mhall119> oh,nice davidcalle
<vibhav> Something awesome!
<cielak> ubuntu for eyewear? sounds familiar
<ubuntubhoy> Phones requires vendor inclusion
<davidcalle> cielak, hehe
<mhall119> poke your eye to open the dash
<davmor2> Oh just tell them already, it's an ubuntu wig
<bigcalm> davmor2: a merkin?
<davidcalle> To open a file, double blink
<bigcalm> davmor2: it'd fit...
<cielak> mhall119: open the dash, and *it* pokes your eye? :)
<highvoltage> maybe it's an Ubuntu Holodeck. I'd sell everything I have for one.
<superdug_> is there some kind of announcement event? or we just waiting for the site to change from a counter to the ubuntu powered microwave page?
<mhall119> loving JoseeAntonioR's wall in the background :)
<superdug_> or is this said event?
<bigcalm> I do hope that it goes 'ping'
<mhall119> superdug_: waiting for the announcement and watching OMG's live coverage: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-product-launch-omg-google-hangout
<bashrc`> I think it's going to be an Ubuntu cigarette lighter
<cjwatson> I'd love an Ubuntu jelly-bean dispenser, personally
<popey> Is one of you guys playing minecraft? I swear I can hear the sound effect of a door opening and closing!
<bashrc`> Ubuntu coffee machine?
<Cantide> Didn't Android already dispense jelly bean?
<superdug_> is omgubuntu somewhere where an announcement is being made?
<highvoltage> cjwatson: when's your birthday?
<bigcalm> An Ubuntu fedora?
<vibhav> cjwatson : :)
<Neshemah> 3 minutes
<AlanBell> superdug_: no, the announcement will be on ubuntu.com
<popey> \o/ marmite
<bigcalm> Kitties!
<Neshemah> 2:35 minutes and the world will explode
<cjwatson> highvoltage: November ...
<highvoltage> popey: people in Canada don't know what Marmite is :(
<bilal> popey: Was my brother in another room, didn't know my mic was that strong
<popey> fools
<bashrc`> Ubuntu blender!
<mhall119> if it's Ubuntu Marmite, I'm switching to Arch
<bilal> :)
<Neshemah> Gnome2buntu, Gnom2buntu
<superfly> highvoltage: that's a pity
<popey> haha bilal âº
<Neshemah> I want Gnome2buntu
<Neshemah> :P
<Cantide> life without Marmite would be unbearable..
<highvoltage> heya superfly
<RobinJ> what's a marmite?
<superdug_> t-minus 2 minutes and counting
<superfly> yo highvoltage :-)
<davidcalle> The Verge has a pic :)
<superfly> RobinJ: a beef flavoured spread
<Neshemah> oh oh
<Cantide> RobinJ, a sandwich spread
<Neshemah> It's coming
<superfly> (in essence)
<RobinJ> ew?
<bashrc`> Maybe it's an Ubuntu range of lingerie
<Neshemah> hahaha
<beethoven8201> dum dum dum
<RobinJ> sounds typically american *shivers*
<vibhav> ...
<Neshemah> c'mon c'mon
<spjt> marmite is the sludge left over after they make beer
 * Neshemah is proud to be on Mint
<superfly> RobinJ: actually, no
<Cantide> bashrc`, I'd totally buy that for my girlfriend :)
<jqmmes_> almost
<irv> OMG ITS A UBUNTU FLESHLIGHT!!!
<mfisch> RobinJ: it's most certainly NOT american
<superdug_> marmite - (noun) synonymous with disgusting
<Cantide> spjt, I always thought it was tick blood..
<Neshemah> hahahahah irv
<snwh> I still think it's Ubuntu Pepsi
<superdug_> 1 MINUTE
<jqmmes_> will there be a press conference?
<superfly> Cantide: BWAHAHAHAHA
<RobinJ> irv, fleshlight or flashlight? :p
<beethoven8201> it better be nexus7
<irv> flesh ;]
<Neshemah> It's an Ubuntu fridge with a touchscreen, believe me
<bigcalm> Can I go home yet?
<beethoven8201> or touch
<irv> where is the video
<irv> stream
<jqmmes_> it'll be a ubuntu toaster
<Neshemah> 40 secs
<jqmmes_> with touch support
<Neshemah> The ubuntu toaster already exists
<RobinJ> irv, http://www.ubuntu.com/
<Thundarr> yay toaster!
<Neshemah> It prints the logo to the toast
<RobinJ> er
<RobinJ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1CvVf9K7H00#!
<mfisch> guys it's really Ubuntu for Itanium
<Neshemah> c'mon c'mon
<jqmmes_> 20
<irv> thx
<Neshemah> oh oh oh oh
<spjt> 10
<DavidBradbury> I'm crossing my fingers that if it is a smartphone, that the interface isn't ran under unity
<makerbreakr> tablet
<Neshemah> oh hell its orgasmic
<makerbreakr> pls
<RobinJ> 3
<superfly> less than 10 seconds, apparently
<RobinJ> 2
<RobinJ> 1
<iceroot> !!!
<RobinJ> loading....
<Neshemah> LOADDDDDDD
<beethoven8201> wat loading
<superdug_> and ... ?
<RollinV2> and....
<Neshemah> LOADDDDDDDDDDD
<RobinJ> my god lol
<jqmmes_> a loading screen
<mfisch> we're replacing the command line with Unity
<jqmmes_> weee
<highvoltage> 00:00:00
<RollinV2> CRASH
<DavidBradbury> White screeeeeen
<irv> OMG
<spjt> It's? a spinning circle!
<popey> haha
<irv> ITS A CIRCLE
<Neshemah> LOL
<Neshemah> EPIC FAIL
<highvoltage> so close I can almost smell it
<RollinV2> so close you can crash it
<RobinJ> refresh the page, you just get 00:00:00
<beethoven8201> lol
<Neshemah> hahahahahahahahaha
<superdug_> it's the most beautiful circle ever
<RobinJ> canonical failed lol
<irv> andddd webservers are dead
<beethoven8201> hahaha
<inetpro> hmm...
<Neshemah> lol, lol, lol
<beethoven8201> fail
<DavidBradbury> And... Nothing. They just wanted to put a timer up on their page
<RollinV2> lol
<SeanS> lol
<RobinJ> PWHAHAHAHA
<RobinJ> website down XD
<RollinV2> epic fail
<Thundarr> toast!
<Neshemah> IT'S
<Neshemah> IT'S A SQUARE
<irv> TELL US THE ANNOUNCEMENT
<isantop> It's a toaster.
<irv> or do these guys even know
<highvoltage> jono: surely you know what it is already :)
<Neshemah> Oh no, I selected it hahaha
<RobinJ> check omgubuntu
<isantop> It's toasted the website already
<RobinJ> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
<bigcalm> It's a server that can't handle the load
<highvoltage> it's up for me but just at 00:00:00
<RobinJ> omg noes
<RobinJ> omgubuntu: 504 Gateway Time-out
<neven> they run server on IIS? :)
<inetpro> 504 Gateway Time-out
<Cantide> neven, :D
<Thundarr> lean on any ubuntu site just a little, and they collapse?
<RobinJ> well it says ubuntu phone unveiled
<irv> they should host their site on IIS
<irv> then they wouldn't have these issues
<irv> =p
<Neshemah> lol there's a live show on Youtube
<isantop> OMG!'s got it. It's a phone
<spjt> We already knew about the OS, I just want to know if there's any hardware for it.
<DavidBradbury> I can't ping 'em
<jqmmes_> ubuntu-phone
<jqmmes_> holy crap
<superfly> loading...
<beethoven8201> how'd you get it to load?
<superfly> loading...
<Neshemah> OMGUBUNTU ALSO CRASHED
<Neshemah> 503
<Neshemah> *503
<jqmmes_> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
<Neshemah> **504
<mfisch> omgubuntu is dead too
<Thundarr> so now they can spend forever working on shit for a phone instead of optimizing the proper OS. really nice.
<superfly> heh.
<spjt> where's the thing on youtube?
<Neshemah> I'd like to see what does the Canonical guy say
<Thundarr> isnt that what MS is doing? working ass backwards?
<highvoltage> hey tell rickspencer3 to join the channel :)
<pleia2> just a reminder folks, this channel is like other Ubuntu channels language-wise, please watch it :)
<SeanS> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/3827922/ubuntu-phone-os-announcement
<tiox> It's a competition to the bottom of the multi-device pile, and Canonical is late!
<yungblood> bass akwards
<superdug_> how do they have it already?
<RobinJ> epic fail, canonical :p
<cjwatson> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpWHJDLsqTU
<Neshemah> Who's that indian kid?
<retard> is the surprise that the site is down
<popey> Neshemah: bilal
<tiox> I
<Neshemah> No retard, that was expected
<tiox> m still stuck at the timer!
<Neshemah> Who's him popey?
<tiox> I'm*
<Neshemah> He manages the server?
<OptiWork> page working yet?
<cdavis> nope
<isantop> It's on The Verge too.
<superdug_> so ubuntu leaked it?
<cdavis> someone really borked that timer up, they must have written an rm -rf / when the timer reached zero
<Neshemah> Who's that Canonical guy with glasses and bald?
<popey> Neshemah: jono
<retard> oh a phone
<AlanBell> superdug_: well that will be a press release with an embargo time
<virtu> ubuntu for smartphones
<spjt> cdavis: Everyone who had the timer open tried to load it at once.
<virtu> engadget goes hands on
<Thundarr> does ubuntu for nexus 7 actually work
<tiox> I woke up before 21:00 to see this crap. Bad advertising juju Canonical.
<jqmmes_> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/3827922/ubuntu-phone-os-announcement
<jqmmes_> there
<Neshemah> Who's jono?
<AlanBell> Neshemah: community manager
<highvoltage> jono: know any specs on the phone yet?
<ikonia> Neshemah: the fact that you just randomly asked that suggested you may already know
<beethoven8201> http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/
<Thundarr> lol, I'm banned from the verge.
<tiox> Actually, before 13:00 sorry.
<RobinJ> lol?
<RobinJ> jono, http://socloseyoucanalmostbobbleit.com/
<tiox> I get time confused sometimes.
<superdug_> so why does ubuntu think their foray into the phone world will be better than mer, webos, mozilla, etc ?
<tiox> There we go, Ubuntuphone. I said it before. When I was fanatical, I said it WOULD happen.
<Neshemah> ikonia, I read an interview on LinuxFormat magazine.
<ikonia> I'm sure it says who he is
<Neshemah> Well, I just read the title :P
<trimeta> So, wait, does this entirely replace the existing phone OS (meaning that none of your Android apps will work), or does it just let you connect to a KVM and run a full Ubuntu desktop?
<tiox> We all knew this was going to happen.
<cielak> QUESTION: How about apps compatibility? Does this new OS will mean we'll need to wait till developers do some apps on it, or will it be compatible with e.g. android apps or ubuntu ones?
<RollinV2> same reason they think unity is the best thing ever, distortion field
<balloons> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4
<snwh> omgubuntu is up
<spjt> I got ubuntu.com to load, it just shows the same screen with no timer :)
<RollinV2> i bet webup8 wont even report on this lol
<RobinJ> someone made a fanpage for jono lol
<tiox> Unity is pretty damn good for what it is. Hence I don't use it.
<RollinV2> tiox, lol
<highvoltage> mhall119: was this a (or the) skunkworks project?
<cjwatson> front page linking to http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone now
<RobinJ> well, the dev portal says something about ubuntu phone
<RobinJ> http://developer.ubuntu.com/
<tiox> OMG I will wit until the influx of idiots and dumb media grab their press media, the page is too slow for me.
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4  trailer video...
<tiox> wait*
<RollinV2> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/3827922/ubuntu-phone-os-announcement
<mhall119> highvoltage: there was some, but unfortunately we didn't kick of Skunkworks in time for there to be a lot of involvement
<czajkowski> cjwatson: cheers
<DavidBradbury> There will be an SDK, apps will be able to be programmed both using HTML5 and QDK
<DavidBradbury> Sorry, QML
<RollinV2> same as windows 8 rt apps , html5 base
<FabianS> Yay, moar slow webapp shit!
<IdleOne> !langauge
<ubot5> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<ikonia> tone down the langauge please
<RobinJ> HTML5? ok i'm in. i'm afraid it'd be too good to be true, but it sounds like a way to get away from the mess that is programming for android or iOS
<kikirikou> when is the next live hangout ?
<DavidBradbury> I just hope that there will be a proper web render. Speed, feature set, rendering, and the JS engine are all important to get right.
<lix> NIIIICE!!
<spjt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cpWHJDLsqTU the announcement
<AlanBell> hi FabianS
<tiox> So basically, if I hack my Android phone a little bit to give it the Ubuntu font and some fancy Ubuntu-ish graphics I can say I am using Ubuntu Mobile?
<RobinJ> QUESTION: how's accessibility? can we run it on our existing android devices, or do we need to purchase a device with it preinstalled?
<tiox> I sure hope it gets better than that -- MATE did start off as a direct rip of GNOME 2.x after all...
<DavidBradbury> Don't be silly tiox.
<lix> Ubuntu-Phones!!
<AlanBell> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical is working now
<superfly> *yawn*
<superfly> Sorry, that's not that exciting
<Neshemah> MATE FTW
<Neshemah> And Cinnamon, too :D
<bkerensa-ofc> Any questions or Rick Spencer or Jono Bacon?
<tiox> I'd like to go back to bed, but it's too late for that.
<Thundarr> ...no shipping date etc, why didn't they just wait for CES
<Thundarr> what a stupid announcement
<Calinou> what a stupid Thundarr
<sc30317> i'm assuming this is where we are supposed to discuss the ubuntu.com DoS :D
<Neshemah> Yes, why did they remove gnome 2 and why don't they react to Mint's win
<tiox> What stupid hype! Canonical failed to excite me. Rubs my jollies the wrong way.
<ubuntubhoy> Does anyone know if test 'ROM's' will be made available for current devices, and if so when ?
<highvoltage> well I guess they just want to build some excitement around it. it's admittingly a bit boring considering that the intentions for an ubuntu phone and the official youtube video has been available for a while.
<Calinou> Neshemah: suddenly: xfce
<Thundarr> Calinou: you might disagree, but this is not how you market product. "we might ship this year, even though we don't have a vendor"
<Calinou> why doesn't this calm down all hate? :D
<highvoltage> so it did end up being somewhat of an unannouncement.
<Neshemah> It's not hate Calinou.
<Calinou> Thundarr: since when ubuntu is being marketed by vendors
<isantop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpWHJDLsqTU
<FabianS> Calinou: People hate change in itself.
<Neshemah> I like XFCE too.
<Calinou> FabianS: of course they always did :) i don't personally
<Neshemah> I try to be constructive...
<KurtKraut> That is what happens if you use Apache+Squid for high visit volume website instead of nginx+Varnish. So Canonical, next time try nginx.
<Thundarr> it has to be marketed by whichever vendor they partner with.
<Neshemah> Without Ubuntu Mint wouldn't exist, at all.
<FabianS> I don't either. Gnome3 is much much better than Gnome 2 ever was.
<Calinou> if I don't like unity (lacks productivity/customability), then I move on and use xfce, which is _better_ than gnome 2 imo
<Neshemah> But Canonical reacts bad, soooooooo bad.
<Calinou> less obsolete
<FabianS> Gnome 2 was an unholy mess of bad design and technology.
<Neshemah> Yes Calinou, that's right.
<Neshemah> I preffer Cinnamon, too.
<Calinou> KurtKraut: set it up for them then, mr. harshlinux :>
<Neshemah> But the newbies don't know about Xubuntu nor xubuntu-desktop.
<RollinV2> 10.10 best
<Neshemah> They think Ubuntu is *only* Unity.
<Neshemah> RollinV2 +1
<FabianS> Gnome 3 is at least consistantly styled and has introduced some new approach.
<Calinou> Neshemah: newbies get what newbies deserve, non-newbies do not
<Neshemah> So they say "what the heck is that" and go to Mint.
<RollinV2> funny thing is 10.10 wasnt even a LTS
<RollinV2> and everyone still loved it
<RobinJ> QUESTION: Are we going to have to purchase a â¬600 phone with it preinstalled, or can we just pick up a second hand Android phone for â¬50 somewhere and flash it to Ubuntu Phone?ï»¿
<Calinou> the derivatives need more promotion, +1
<FabianS> But people seem to not understand UIs that don't work like Windows 1.0
<sikory> they should have gone with scaleengine.com
<Calinou> BETTER QUESTION: are you even going to buy a smartphone/tablet?
<KurtKraut> Calinou, sure! And they don't need to provide me root access. It is just a matter of  'aptitude install nginx varnish -y' :P
<Neshemah> Calinou, look at this: http://www.catbuntu.me/2013/01/my-2013-purpose-and-why-do-i-use-linux.html
<Thundarr> I can't use mint. I might have some jewish blood, and clem wants me to burn in an oven.
 * Calinou answers: "no, desktops are faster and have better performance-to-price ratio!"
<tiox> Okay, here's the rational for someone looking between GNOME 2.x and GNOME-Shell/Unity/Cinnamon: "It looks like Windows..."
<sikory> they are so ridiculously expensive
<Neshemah> I tried to explain this not being a hater.
<jqmmes_> uhm... will they lack python support :(?
<sikory> everybody has python support
<Calinou> KurtKraut: nginx lacks modules so it is harder to install things like SSL, no?
<Neshemah> XFCE is lovely, it's a GNOME 2 replacement, I agree. I used it and liked for a long time, but I preffer Cinnamon or perhaps MATE.
<Calinou> sikory: everybody has an i7
<FabianS> RobinJ: You can't really put third-party operating systems on mobile phones.
<tiox> Henceforth, it looks like Windows, people like GNOME 2.x.
<Calinou> python, lol
<RollinV2> purple is color of the year
<RobinJ> jqmmes_, well, it's open source, so it just depends on whether someone occupies himself with porting python
<FabianS> RobinJ: All SoCs feature lots and lots of propietary drivers.
<Calinou> FabianS: if the bootloader is unlockable you can
<FabianS> That can't be ported at all.
<FabianS> No, you can't.
<Calinou> also, that
<FabianS> It might boot up.
<KurtKraut> Calinou, I wouldn't say harder, just different. Requires re-learning. But the performance benefit pays off.
<jqmmes_> you i know, but on the site they dont talk about it... only c,c++ js
<RobinJ> FabianS, that depends; it's both linux, so the core would remain the same
<FabianS> But that's pretty much it.
<RollinV2> need processor support
<tiox> Blame Microsoft's 25 years of cramming the start button down our throats.
<FabianS> RobinJ: Android is Linux too.
<FabianS> But they have completely different drivers.
<RobinJ> FabianS, .... that's what i just said
<RollinV2> FabianS, dont tell people that. lol
<sikory> Calinou: i7?
<Neshemah> XFCE is a bit obsolete, too. It uses GTK2.
<FabianS> Even Custom ROMs don't really change anything.
<sikory> I use a 9 year old pentium 4
<Jordan_U> Thundarr: That kind of comment is clearly innapropriate.
<RobinJ> FabianS, true, but you can replace drivers on rooter android phones too
<FabianS> The replace some userland. That's it.
<Neshemah> Not as obsolete as MATE/Gnome 2.
<KurtKraut> Calinou, and when I say performance benefit, it is a very good one. In my scenario, 10x more concurrent connections where supported for the same website.
<FabianS> Because you don't have access to drivers for any other kernel versions.
<RobinJ> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
<RobinJ> it's up
<Neshemah> But to win users Canonical should so something like Cinnamon, but it's too late.
<Calinou> Neshemah: i don't use mint because it 1) lacks polishing 2) is amateur (ads on website? no thanks)
<Calinou> it is also even slower than ubuntu :D
<sikory> ads on the internet? where?
<tiox> Neshemah: Before MATRE, XFCE was the only GNOME 2-like interface. And I kinda liked it.
<Neshemah> Calinou, and what about ads on the launcher?
<RollinV2> who seriously would argue gnome3 is the proper evolution of gnome 2?
<tiox> MATE*
<Calinou> KurtKraut: ah, ok
<Neshemah> I preffer XFCE to MATE too, tiox.
<Calinou> Neshemah: xfce here, xubuntu
<Neshemah> But Cinnamon to all the others.
<AlanBell> bkerensa-ofc: so how much is it, and when can I buy it?
<RobinJ> âWe also invited a way to use an app without having to use buttons at all via a voice-controlled âHUDâ.
<RobinJ> hmmm interesting idea
<Neshemah> Calinou, but Xubuntu isn't managed by Canonical.
<Calinou> I STARTED A DE WAR, I'M SO AWESOME
<Neshemah> I like it.
<Calinou> Neshemah: yeah, so it is community-managed like mint
<tiox> Calinou: There is no war.
<Neshemah> What I don't like is the way that Canonical manages the things.
<RollinV2> RobinJ, apple and google already do that with voice search
<RobinJ> But the first pure Ubuntu  Phone devices will appear towards the end of the year. << ok don't get too excited yet
<Neshemah> Like... forcing the newbies to use Unity.
<Calinou> windows 8 has lots of "adware" too
<bkerensa-ofc> Any questions or Rick Spencer or Jono Bacon?
<Neshemah> Mint shows all the options very clearly.
<FabianS> Voice controll will probably stay a boring gadget forever.
<RobinJ> RollinV2, HUD, not voice search
<tiox> My point is, the majrity will flock to what looks like Windows' taskbar, solely out of familiarity.
<FabianS> Nobody really uses S-Voice or Siri.
<Neshemah> Whereas there's nothing about derivatives at Ubuntu's download page.
<tiox> majority*
<FabianS> Excapt for fooling around with it.
<RobinJ> Unlike Android, Ubuntu Phone OS has been designed from the ground up to deliver a âcrisper, sharperâ experience on low-powered devices â a market segment Shuttleworth sees as being key to adoption.
<Calinou> FabianS: +1
<Calinou> but smartphone/tablet keyboards are really slow :3
<Calinou> physical keyboards are just so much better
<FabianS> But people don't want them anymore.
<Calinou> yeah
<RobinJ> ok this gives some vagua answer to my question :p Although Canonicalâs âprimary market will be selling Ubuntu Phones via retail, users will be able to download and install the phone OS on certain device handsets.
<Neshemah> Calinou, Lubuntu is amazing, too.
<FabianS> The era of physical keyboards on phones is really over.
<Calinou> like wired stuff... ethernet, which is fast, wired mouses/keyboards, almost no latency... :(
<RollinV2> depends on need, if you type daily.. you need a keyboard somewhere
<Calinou> I use these, but the general user 1) uses all-in-one computer, 2) wireless mouse/keyboard, 3) wifi
<Neshemah> If all the Ubuntu family dies, I'd go with Manjaro :P
<FabianS> And sadly the last generation with physical keyboard kinda sucks.
<FabianS> Milestone 2 and Desire Z are simply too slow for android.
<Calinou> Neshemah: noone uses manjaro, I stay away from no-one-uses-it distros
<tiox> GImme Compiz, and I am happy. :P
<sikory> RollinV2: you don't want to use a phone if you type daily
<Neshemah> But at the moment, long live to ubuntu and mint.
<FabianS> And 512 MB RAM is not enough.
<mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile for developing apps for the phone OS
<Neshemah> Calinou, Manjaro  = Arch
<Calinou> yeah
<RollinV2> sikory, exactly
<mhall119> jono: JoseeAntonioR ^^
<FabianS> Android needs at least a gig and a multi-core.
<Neshemah> Lots of people use Arch.
<FabianS> Else it will run like crap.
<Calinou> it is compatible but manjaro is not supported in #archlinux
<Calinou> or archlinux forums
<RobinJ> Mobile development suite will be available later this week. Developers will be able to create one app, with twi interfaces: a smartphone UI, and, when docked, a desktop UI. << so basically they're just extending on their ubuntu for android idea? :o
<Calinou> thus you're forced to lie :D
<FabianS> Manjaro is a pretty stupid idea :p
<Calinou> FabianS: 12GB RAM here 8)
<Calinou> I could live with 4 I know. but it's enough to play minecraft :)
<JoseeAntonioR> mhall119: thanks
<FabianS> Calinou: I have 16. But only 512 M in my phone.
<RollinV2> FabianS, naw. ubuntu runs like crap because the carriers put spamware on top of android
<FabianS> Which isn't nearly enough.
<FabianS> RollinV2: Actually Cyanogen Mod runs worse on mine.
<sikory> 1 GB ram here
<Calinou> RollinV2: +1, one more reason I dislike smartphones/tablets, lots of crapware and locked bootloader
<sikory> (PC)
<sikory> I bought a nokia 100 today
<sikory> best phone ever
<Calinou> it is way better to have a desktop where you can change the HW easily, you are not locked in, but there is no mobility
<Calinou> you don't need mobility most of the time
<FabianS> Just compare Android to Meego.
<Calinou> if you do, then it is a good time to "disconnect" for a bit :p
<Calinou> nokia makes overpriced phones today
<FabianS> The Nokia N9 actually has the same SoC as my Milestone 2.
 * Calinou points to nokia lumia 920
<FabianS> The exact same one.
<Calinou> 900 euros? no thanks
<RobinJ> this looks truly epic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4&feature=player_embedded
<FabianS> And the N9 runs like butter with 20+ apps backgrounded.
<sikory> many people need a smartphone because they are addicted to it
<FabianS> Android lags like crazy
<FabianS> On the MS2.
<Calinou> android is slow, java :|
<FabianS> Java isn't that slow.
<Calinou> why can't people use luajit which is pretty fast, and even simpler than java?
<Calinou> i know
<FabianS> But it needs tons of RAM.
<FabianS> Luajit probably isn't as fast as Java.
<sikory> only use C
<sikory> and asm
<Calinou> lol
<FabianS> Java is not that much slower than C anyway.
<sikory> I only use C
<Calinou> FabianS: luajit is about 5% slower than C usually. and don't forget it is even simpler than java to learn and use
<sikory> and python when speed doesn't matter
<highvoltage> in many cases java is faster than pure C
<Calinou> high level, not mid-level
<FabianS> But Lua sucks balls.
<FabianS> :p
<RollinV2> ubuntu offices kinda nice at @ 14:00 in that youtube video
<Calinou> why? :P
<sikory> highvoltage: then you're doing it wrong
<bkerensa-ofc> Any questions for Jono Bacon?
<FabianS> It's probably much too simple to write bug applications and the syntax is kinda horrible.
<Calinou> lots of RAM == I can say "RAM" is cheap for desktops, but not for handheld devices
<highvoltage> sikory: not necessarily. (ftr I don't use Java)
<FabianS> Power consumption is an issue.
<Calinou> oops, move the quotes around a bit :P
<FabianS> 2 GB of RAM pull quite a lot of juice.
<sikory> highvoltage: me neither
<RollinV2> bkerensa-ofc, what phone bare min stats are they targeting with ubuntu phone OS?
<Calinou> smartphones/tablets use ARM CPUs and integrated GPUs already, as if they can't save power
<einonm> So how does the revenue stream for Canonical work for this phone OS?
<Calinou> people always keep brightness to max, and 3G enabled all the time, and "push" too
<sikory> but system language has to be faster than something running in a VM for the same calls
<FabianS> And ARM CPUs are really bad on memory bandwith.
<Calinou> that's why their phones last no more than 5 hours
<Calinou> x86 ftw! noisy but fast. :3
<sikory> Calinou: don't forget bluetooth
<FabianS> Bluetooth doesn't affect battery at all.
<Calinou> bluetooth *vomits a frame pointer*
<sikory> a noisy phone isn't really useful
<Calinou> bluetooth daemon is disabled on my computer, saves 20MB ram and boot time
<FabianS> Like GPS doesn't.
<Calinou> I have no bluetooth device 8)
<sikory> I use haiku, that saves boot time like a maniac
<FabianS> But I expect a smartphone to have push and 3g on all the time.
<FabianS> So that's no excuse for horrible battery life.
<RollinV2> qml .. oh boy
<sikory> I expect a smartphone to drain a lot
<sikory> ... of my attention
<sikory> span
<Mercury> I wonder who the manufactures are going to be out of the gate.
<Calinou> FabianS: push is beyond pointless, it's like automatic updating
<FabianS> ?
<kvarley1> Is there any word on whether the Ubuntu Phone OS will also do a similar thing to Ubuntu for Android? If it could act as phone and desktop it would be amazing
<FabianS> I want to get notified if I get mails or chat messages.
<FabianS> Not 20 minutes later.
<RollinV2> ubuntu OS might catch on if carriers can fully brand the OS and include tons of adware
<FabianS> Hell, my first phone had "push". It's called SMS.
<tiox> RollinV2: lol!
<Calinou> >2013
<Calinou> >SMS
<FabianS> So I expect my 400â¬ Phone to be able to do the same.
<RollinV2> voice = data, think abou that next time you look at your cell bill
<Calinou> I wonder why MMS still exists. can't phone manufacturers use HTML instead? :<
<Calinou> FabianS: notifications are not your friend, they're only useful to stress you
<tiox> Some manufacturers mod the shit out of stock Android so mucu... you're not really using Android anymore.
<kvarley1> Calinou: Probably a lot to do with legacy support
<Calinou> I like not being notified when something happens 8)
<FabianS> Calinou: That's your opinion.
<tiox> much*
<Calinou> if someone wants to say something important then they call me
<FabianS> I simply expect that functionality.
<RollinV2> tiox, sense is the reason i refuse to buy HTC android devices
<FabianS> Without having to fall back to SMS.
<IdleOne> tiox: Please keep the language clean
<Calinou> kvarley1: more like... monies
<tiox> Whoops.
<Mercury> Calinou: MMS exists because that's how they like to bill for things.
<tiox> Thus, I believe that in the case of HTC, the OS listed should be HTC/Android instead of Android.
<FabianS> For some reason the Note II runs for ages on battery though.
<sikory> MMS is just a failed thing, but apparently implementing support is easy
<TheLordOfTime> oh so HERE'S where you all are.
<FabianS> The battery is twice as big as normal but it also has that huge screen and quadcore.
<FabianS> Not sure what samsung did there.
<doctormon> hello jono
<doctormon> thanks for the invite
<Calinou> tiox: it's not HTC/Android! it's HTC/Google/HTC/Android.
<Calinou> </gnu>
<sikory> there's no gnu in android
<Calinou> yeah
<FabianS> The Kernel is GNU.
<sikory> *almost no
<jaduncan> Does this meanï»¿ that Ubuntu for Android is dead?
<Calinou> no
<tiox> Calinou: What?
<sikory> FabianS: no it isn't
<FabianS> Well, it's GPL.
<JoseeAntonioR> any questions, guys?
<FabianS> Not GNU.
<zyga> jono: will there be an emulator for writing apps like there is for android?
<FabianS> GNU license.
<sikory> GPL is not GNU
<sikory> there are so many GPL programs
<FabianS> It's the GNU GPL.
<sikory> but that doesn't make the program a GNU program
<Calinou> android is apache 2, permissive ftw!
<iceroot> FabianS: the G in GPL stands for GNU
<Calinou> now every single "overlay" is proprietary :(
<bashrc`> So, is this free software on a phone, but with the GNU toolchain?
<Mercury> FabianS: GNU has multiple licenses, saying the GNU license is ambigious.
<Calinou> iceroot: no, general
<Calinou> general public license
<Calinou> GNU GPL
<iceroot> k
<Calinou> yey, an op was wrong
<jaduncan> bashrc`: yeah, standard toolchain but with QML.
<bashrc`> QML?
<SeanS> developer.ubuntu.com is 503ing?
<tiox> Recursive acronyms and abbreviations with abbreviations in the, that stand for groups of people and stuff. That's Linux.
<snwh> will the phone OS 'rooted'
<FabianS> I'm still sad that nokia killed Meego.
<mhall119> SeanS: the box is getting more traffic than it can handle atm
<sikory> linux isn't an abbreviation
<FabianS> That was like the perfect phone OS.
<jacobw> one would assume so
<tiox> My god the "Alphabet soup"-ness of Linux discussion scares noobs away so hard.
<sikory> so?
<FabianS> Debian based and native Apps using QT.
<RollinV2> thats good
<Mercury> Will it be Ubuntu with X or Wayland as the core, or will it be something more specialized?
<FabianS> And fast as hell.
<kvarley1> How hard will it be to port Ubuntu to existing android devices assuming there is access to root and busybox?
<iceroot> but if i get it correctly we will have 2 different guis? the real Desktop Gui (Unity which is used at the moment on the desktopsystems) when the phone is connected via dock and a special gui when using the phone directly?
<FabianS> But noooo. We need Webapps on the desktop.
<sikory> ooh, wayland wayland wayland!
<Guest99002> What integration will the phone have with the Ubuntu desktop?
<jacobw> FabianS: what's wrong with html5/js? it's just another interpretter
<sikory> isn't unity made for phones?
<cjwatson> FabianS: fast - uh, they must have seriously sped up the browser from fremantle then
<sikory> *touch screens rather
<cjwatson> 'cos fast that ain't
<tiox> sikory: Mobile devices, yes.
<FabianS> jacobw: It's slow as hell and requires tons of RAM?
<tiox> Part of Canonical's "Multi-device future" blueprint.
<Mercury> sikory: I'll take either over yet another custom layer talking to a framebuffer like they did for both Android and WebOS.
<FabianS> AJAX is slow even on laptop CPUs.
<jacobw> FabianS: like WebOS did?
<sikory> my laptop is a mobile device, but I don't run Unity on that
<FabianS> Which are a lot faster than those tiny ARMs.
<webdesserts> All I want to know, is can I run Vim on it?
<gotwig> hey
<RollinV2> for database apps html5/js is ok.. but for games, etc? nope nope nope
<FabianS> jacobw: Never tried WebOS. Did they actually release some decent phone with that OS?
<magespawn> Evening
<seiflotfy> hey guys
<gotwig> mhall119, hey there
<RollinV2> webOS died at the tablet level
<sikory> Mercury: of course
<gotwig> mhall119, Can I distribute my scope and lenses that I've develop for Ubuntu, for Ubuntu for phones?
<sikory> webdesserts: vim on a touchscreen?
<sikory> that can't work
<seiflotfy> quick question, is zeitgeist used in ubuntu phone
<mhall119> gotwig: yes, the scopes/lenses API will be the same between both
<FabianS> Fremantle? Was that on the n800?
<mhall119> gotwig: nice huh?
<RollinV2> sikory, i use vim during ssh to my server via android connect bot. it works nice!
<webdesserts> you can use vim on both the iPhone and android, you just need to attach a keyboard
<tiox> Even if it did work, it'd rely on the bvirtual keyboard unless it's a Droid or some other phone with a physical board.
<jacobw> FabianS: no, but they showed that using web technologies wasn't a pipe dream
<RobinJ> i wonder what bullshit richard stallman's going to say about ubuntu phone :p
<tiox> virtual keyboard*
<spjt> It would be nice if Bluetooth keyboards actually worked with it, unlike Android
<mhall119> All of the Unity APIs should be the same between desktop and phone
<tiox> RobinJ: Language. Watch it.
<sikory> RobinJ: there's nothing to say about it yet
<FabianS> RobinJ: Like condemning sending everything you type to amazon? How could he.
<Guest99002> Would the phone interact with an Ubuntu desktop without replacing it by docking?
<sikory> RollinV2: of course you can efficienty use your keystrokes
<RollinV2> ok real talk, does RollinV2 run out and buy a c7 chromebook since we ain't getting a ubuntu tablet anytime soon
<doctormon> mhall119: Wouldn't be much good if it were different.
<FabianS> That "shopping lens" was just insanely stupid.
<sikory> still, I wouldn't use a touchscreen for editing textfiles at all
<mhall119> doctormon: tell that to MS :)
<nolan1> I see lots of talk about the phone becoming a desktop when it is docked. Will it be possible to use the desktop on your phone without it being docked, say for those of us who don't need screens?
<FabianS> Not sure what those devs at Canonical thought about that.
<seiflotfy> is there an image somewhere?
<tiox> FabianS: Advertising is what you get when users don't donate.
<magespawn> webdesserts you can run vim touch on Android
<tiox> ;)
<cjwatson> FabianS: fremantle - n900
<doctormon> mhall119: No one listens to me in Ubuntu, how far would I get with Microsoft :-P
<RollinV2> sikory, i thought the same. but with a good virtual keyboard (hackerskeyboard on android) it works fine for light editing
<gotwig> mhall119, :>
<gotwig> mhall119, I should relearn some stuff ^^
 * nolan1 is blind, thinking it'd be awesome to have a laptop in his pocket and a small BT keyboard on the go, then a full-sized keyboard/speaker system at home. :)
<mhall119> doctormon: I listen :P
<FabianS> Stallman is a fundamentalist. But usually the stuff he says isn't wrong.
<sikory> RollinV2: tablet or pone?
<robin-gloster> mhall119: do you have more information on the image for galaxy nexus?
<popey> doctormon: we listen
<Calinou> <snwh> will the phone OS 'rooted'
<RollinV2> sikory, tablet. though i could do the same on my phone
<mhall119> robin-gloster: not yet, no
<doctormon> popey: lol
<Calinou> do that, send it as-is to OEMs
<Calinou> they'll be happy :D
 * popey puts his headphones back on to blot out doctormon âº
<nolan1> Also, I'm a bit worried about all this OEM talk. What will prevent OEMs from keeping phone users on 13.04 in 2015?
<JoseeAntonioR> if you guys have any more questions, feel free to ask
 * tiox tests a theory...
<sikory> nolan1: why would they care what people use after they bought their stuff?
<tiox> Bacon.
<sikory> yay, Bacon
<sikory> I love bacon
<RollinV2> nolan1, nothing. carriers want you to buy a new phone every 2 years
<jaduncan> sikory: returns, brand identity.
<nolan1> sikory: I wonder that about Samsung, HTC, etc.
<tiox> It works! Any mention of the word Bacon will lead into discussion of bacon!
<cjwatson> nolan1: best thing we can do I suspect is to make sure as much of the code is in the primary Ubuntu archive as humanly possible
<jacobw> nolan1: users
<SeanS> long story short, that is a yes :)
<Mercury> sikory: Carriers have, 'interesting' rules on updates for phones.
<jaduncan> sikory: also planned obselence through lack of upgrades.
<sikory> iceroot: there is no bacon discussion, except that I now respond to you
<sikory> tiox: there is no bacon discussion, except that I now respond to you
<nolan1> Why would HTC care what I run on my phone? Doesn't keep them from making it difficult to switch to CM and upgrade to newer versions of Android.
<sikory> oops, not iceroot
<apecaesar> the new ubuntu phone will be "dockable" like Ubuntu for android? I mean, could I use my phone as my "notebook"?
<Mercury> sikory: Such as requiring that there be a fairly impressive (and expensive / time consuming) testing process done before it can be sent OTA.
<Mercury> sikory: And that dance is per carrier, naturally.
<iceroot> sikory: np
<doctormon> popey: I'm just grinding your diamonds. you know we love you guys really.
<sikory> I don't understand those rules at all either
<tiox> See, you love bacon so much, the mention of it made you shaky and mess up your typing. :P
<sikory> tiox: indeed, bacon is awesome
<iceroot> apecaesar: yes
<RollinV2> nolan1, HTC cares because they have advertising deals in place with Nascar and other uninstallable bloatware apps
<sikory> tiox: did you kow there's even chocolate covered bacon
<iceroot> apecaesar: thats what i got as an answer to my similar question
<Mercury> sikory: That is quite beneficial for the phone carrier's current business model, but it means that the phone makers are just not going to spend the money to recertify 2 year old devices.
<tiox> Yes I did.
<kvarley1> apecaesar: On high end models this will be possible in the future apparently. See OMGUbuntu for more
<nolan1> RollinV2: Exactly, so I want to hear how Canonical plans to prevent that so that Linux for human beings doesn't become Linux for OEMs.
<sikory> nolan1: who says they want those plans
<RollinV2> nolan1, im hopeing the phone OS has terminal support for add/remove packages.
<popey> doctormon: of course, and honestly we need people on the outside keeping us grounded
<nolan1> sikory: "They" being Canonical, and "those plans" being letting users upgrade? If so, then I don't know. I just assume that Linux for human beings would permit that level of customization.
<tiox> Now, in my opinion, it should be ILLEGAL to modify an end product for the consumer. Microsoft for instance; I am okay with OEMs including crapware which may in some time compromise system performance -- If they make it installable, and not put it on the system immediately
<apecaesar> let`s learn how to code in hml5 and do many apps!!!
<Calinou> what firefox OS does basically
<jaduncan> tiox: ironically, this would be an infringement of software freedom.
<Calinou> now let's all flame apecaesar because html5 is so slow
<Calinou> j/k :P
 * DavidBradbury already creates HTML5 apps for a living
<tiox> How?!
<apecaesar> ahuahuhuahau
<Calinou> jaduncan: OEMs use that freedom wrongly, very
<Calinou> DavidBradbury: now release github and twitter's source code, kthx
<webdesserts> Will the terminal for the phone be touch friendly, or will it look similar to your desktop terminal?
<Calinou> also the nvidia driver one
<tiox> There would still be software freedom -- The freedom fr users to dictate what exactly they want on their machines!
<tiox> for*
<popey> JoseeAntonioR: question from a friend... "what will be the state of accessibility in this phone?" "Is
<popey> there anything I can do to test it out"
<sikory> but if the freedom is only for the OEMs that isn't freedom for the end-user
<jaduncan> calinou: that's freedom for you. I'm not sure we'd want to prevent System76 from installing a custom webcam driver that isn't in the normal build.
<DavidBradbury> Calinou: Totally - If I didn't work for a private company that creates these apps for other companies :)
<RobinJ> review board can't keep up? no shit, i've still got two apps in here (https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/) that have been "pending review" for half a year now; that's why i ditched ubuntu as a development platform
<mhall119> RobinJ: we're working on fixing that process for you
<Calinou> RobinJ: now develop arch for harshlinux
<Calinou> upload it to AUR
<jaduncan> sikory: I agree that Tivoization shouldn't be OK, but that's the main focus of GPL v3.
<DJones> RobinJ: Mind the language
<sikory> probably the hardware side will be completely locked down, as with android, because hardware people really don't like to liberate their stuff.
<Calinou> "lol omg this doesnt work" :D
 * nolan1 hopes it will be accessible. For all Canonical's talk about accessibility, its access team is so small it can only guarantee LTS release accessibility.
<sikory> jaduncan: no, it's what OEMs do with all the junk (adware) they insert in windows
<sikory> I was referring to that
<HumanBeing> What's about Ubuntu for Android? Will it still be developed?
<nolan1> Which is sad for a company that charges ahead in so many other areas, I'd hope Canonical could grow its access team in proportion to Unity/server/other areas.
<sikory> also Linus doesn't like gpl v3
<jaduncan> sikory: it's very hard to define in the licence what is and isn't junkware.
<sikory> jaduncan: I don't say you should
<david23400> We need a new phone ubuntu based or we can install it on an android device?
<sikory> jaduncan: but windows isn't free for the end-user at all
<tiox> jaduncan: Here's the line for me: What I bought | What I didn't ask for
<jaduncan> no, but Android is. It also has crapware on an open source OS.
<FabianS> Android is hardly Open Source.
<FabianS> Even Nexus aren't.
<tiox> Now, there is some software that is necessary for the machine to work, absolutely. That isn't junkware.
<sikory> tiox: you pay less because of those "ads"
<FabianS> Your "normal" android phone has all closed drivers and UI.
<tiox> How much less?
<RollinV2> subsidized by ads
<RobinJ> jono, can we also develop for it, and thus participate in the showdown, without buying a â¬600 phone?
<sikory> tiox: a fair amount, I don't know the figures
<FabianS> Nexus have an OS UI but that's about it
<unr34l> If I install ubuntu on my phone, will support all the sensors and cameras ?
<tiox> I could buy a Windows machine from Microsoft for cheaper than I can buy OEM machines in some stores!
<sikory> but if it would be like â¬5, I don't think OEMs would insert it
<highvoltage> engadged claims to have gone hands-on with an ubuntu phone already: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/
<jaduncan> tiox: generally more than the Windows licence fee, put it that way.
<DavidBradbury> I'd swear that some of the people here have never used a phone and never worked for a company before. Ugg.
<tiox> And they don't have bloatware!
<RobinJ> ok
<david23400> the phone which is showed is a Galaxy Nexus , isnt it?
<sikory> tiox: microsoft sells machines?
<RollinV2> demo hardware
<sikory> except for those tablets
<jaduncan> so, again, does this mean that Ubuntu on Android is dead?
<FabianS> david23400: yep.
<sikory> I know about them
<CommieDore> What will be the widget toolkit? GTK? QT? e17?
<FabianS> Qt.
<david23400> FabianS: so it can be run on some android devices? cool :D
<tiox> Then again, the Microsoft store is all about Suface now, so that might had been true a couple years ago.
<FabianS> It might run on the Galaxy Nexus.
<david23400> NExus 4
<Cantide> jaduncan, it seems to me like Ubuntu for Android is actually one of the pieces of this Ubuntu phone
<FabianS> No. The pictures show a Gnexus.
<FabianS> No Nexus4.
<user82> did they mention android apps on ubuntu anywhere?
<doctormon> No python? Just C and C++?
<spjt> Ubuntu is going to be closed in that sense since it's designed to use Android drivers.
<FabianS> I wouldn't miss android apps really.
<IdleOne> jono, popey, bkerensa: right now All I keep hearing as an answer to any question being asked is: We don't have this ready. I am not sure how we are going to do this. We need to get organised... Why did Canonical make such a big to do about something that doesn't exist yet?
<FabianS> There isn't a lot of good android apps.
<sikory> doctormon: there will surely be python, just as it is on your pc
<DarkArgon> c, c++ and js
<snwh> QUESTION: would users be able to switch to the phone UI on the desktop, if they are one and the same?
<david23400> i personnaly dont care of games or such apps.. i think there are the apps that i need.. evernote , facebook twitter
<sikory> maybe not is a "native" setting
<RollinV2> FabianS, there are plenty. iOS store just filled with more trash apps
<popey> IdleOne: it does exist, I've held it
<FabianS> RollinV2: Both stores are filled with horrible apps.
<sikory> farcebook is a terrible company
<FabianS> But there are hardly any good ones.
<popey> IdleOne: so we release late, we get panned, we release early, we get panned,
<popey> what exactly should we do?
<Cantide> jaduncan, read this page -> http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/02/announcing-ubuntu-for-phones/
<IdleOne> popey: So there is a half dozen units in an office somewhere that aren't ready for sale.
<jaduncan> Cantide: Ubuntu for Android ties into a lot of the google apps databases. Those can't be copied across, and Ubuntu for Android now runs on a competitor platform. Which kind of sucks, becuase if Ubuntu for Android dies I won't get to run it on my phone. :)
<tiox> Do remember, Canonical is breaking even because of users choosing to use Ubuntu, and purchase related software, hardware and services.
<Neshemah> back
<jaduncan> Cantide: Read it, no answer on that there.
<tiox> I believe before it even touches OEMs, Ubuntu Phone should be an OS installable on rooted phones.
<FabianS> I think I wouldn't really miss apps even on Meego.
<FabianS> Maybe Whatsapp.
<FabianS> But everything else I need is there.
<spjt> Is there an image that I could load on an android emulator?
<popey> IdleOne: I think it's great we're showing this as soon as we can :D
<tiox> Which wouldmean all the epople on CyanogenMod, MIUI, Apex etc. would be on it, see it, and make a reasonable conclusion whether it's something to get behind, or if Canoncal wasted their time and resources.
<tiox> Canonical*
<IdleOne> jono, popey: Thank you for the answers
<tiox> OMG typing! Grr.
<CommieDore> Will there be a lot of "glorified bookmark" apps on Ubuntu Mobile too? I get a lot of them in the Chrome Webstore...
<sikory> we have to see what this will become in a year, I'm still not convinced that this will really go through
<HumanBeing> it would be a cool thing for the NexPhone
<doctormon> jono: I'm surprised Canonical went down the route of automisation over pushing the review process to third party commercial vendors. Making the 'Ubuntu Developer' position more valuable than just people getting their own packages in.
<spjt> developer.ubuntu.com is down
<mhall119> doctormon: review has always been a bottleneck, both for distro packages and independent apps
<mhall119> automation is the only real long-term solution
<Garbee> popey, In response to release late vs early. I'd tend to go for a little late since that tends to mean a better product.
<CommieDore> Now, is the QML Core very flexible as far as customization?
<spjt> I think it's a good sign compared to Windows Phone that the developer site is down :)
<doctormon> I've spent about 500 hours last year writing xbmc plugins and patches. Why haven't I been writing Ubuntu TV code?
<sikory> it's never good when a site goes down, they did something wrong
<tiox> Because it sucks?
<RollinV2> doctormon, thank you for your hard work.
 * tiox trolls
<tiox> Actually, I never saw Ubuntu TV in action anywhere. Don't have the HTPC to commit.
<doctormon> There's a lot of Ubuntu projects which are seemingly impossible to participate in because they don't seem to deliver anything.
<tiox> doctormon: Remember, if you told people that Vs were going to have and drives and internet ten years ago, you would have been laughed at and shamed.
<sikory> why would people want a full operating system on their tv?
<tiox> TVs*
<mhall119> doctormon: such as?
<sikory> TVs have internet?
<doctormon> tiox: No, ten years ago it was predictible and inevitable.
<tiox> Woaht what? Typing, woah woah...
<sikory> even more surprised that they have drives
<doctormon> mhall119: Ubuntu TV, ubuntu for android, ubuntu for cloud, stuff that has just bounced off my ability to partcipate.
<tiox> The keyboard, tiox, use it... Spellcheck, use it...
<mhall119> doctormon: Ubuntu TV has been open to participation for almost a year now
<CommieDore> Will I be able to install Arch on the Ubuntu Phone? (Wait, they removed the installer... Nevermind :) )
<cielak> not sure if anyone asked it yet, but I'm just wondering if Quickly will provide features for apps on the phone
<mhall119> UfA wasn't really a modified Ubuntu
<mhall119> Ubuntu server and juju are both open to participation
<FabianS> CommieDore: Arch didn't remove the installer.
<hrnz> Hi
<FabianS> They replaced it with a better one.
<CommieDore> FabianS: I thought it removed the install scripts
<FabianS> No.
<mhall119> cielak: I plan on working with people to get a Quickly template for phone apps, yes
<cielak> mhall119: cool! thanks
<tiox> What boggles me is why everyone wants all the hardware in the TV.
<hrnz> Cantide: the arch install scripts replace the arch installation framework
<FabianS> They replaced the Arch Install Framework with the Arch Install Scripts.
<FabianS> hrnz: fuck you :p
<hrnz> FabianS: <3
<IdleOne> !language | FabianS
<ubot5> FabianS: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<CommieDore> FabianS: So, I don't have to chroot and use mk2fs.ext4 and stuff like that?
<hrnz> CommieDore: yes.
<tiox> You don't see any internet-enabled monitors in market, so why internet-enabled televisions all a sudden?
<FabianS> Yep.
<hrnz> eh wait
<hrnz> you have to create your filesystems and chroot
<SeanS> tiox: isn't a tablet, a internet enabled monitor?
<spjt> whatever, i'm going to go shopping and hope that developer.ubuntu.com is back up when I return :)
<tiox> :/
<tiox> True... right.
<irv> tiox: trends towards all-in-one style devices
<tiox> Guess what I am saying is that I am tired of integrated electronics where if one thing breaks, you have to take apart the sodding rig to fix it, or submit to reseling the phone.
<irv> why have a TV and a set-top box when you can have a TV with one built in
<irv> (sucks, but that's the way it is)
<snwh> The Verge has a hands-on video: http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/3828266/ubuntu-phone-os-hands-on
<SeanS> same reason that Apple is looking at the TV again.
<irv> yep
<tiox> reselling the device rather.
<cielak> snwh: thanks!
<irv> it's stupid for consumers, but great for device makers
<SeanS> agreed, tiox
<tiox> If it were entirely up to me, then everything would be modular and easy to replace. I believe that's pitchable to consumers, if you make replacement of components easy -- Or are the sheeple truly that incapable of understanding how their "Magic boxes" work?
<SeanS> I imagine there are a few people out there with TVs with DVD players built in that hardly get any use
<SeanS> too many remotes :P
<irv> it's also about selling people a new TV
<FabianS> You can't build a modular phone.
<irv> why sell them a $100 box that goes on top of the tv when you can sell them a whole tv
<irv> with the $100 box built in
<sikory> there are also those TVs with built in VHS players
<FabianS> The hardware is much too small.
<tiox> Yep, seen them.
<sikory> irv: you really want to do computing on your tv?
<sikory> with a remote
<irv> computing?
<tiox> I have a TV with a built-in DVD player. Hardly got used, then when my uncle came over to use it, somehow he broke that.
<irv> what
<irv> i said a set-top box
<irv> :P
<irv> that's generally designed for consuming media
<tiox> I mean, no physical components were broken, it's just it refuses to play disks now.
<irv> which is waht most people use their tvs for
<tiox> discs*
<sikory> ah ok
<irv> but, i agree it's useful to be able to launch youtube on the tv
<irv> etc
<irv> browse a website
<SeanS> IPTV!
<sikory> irv: I agree that
<sikory> but do TVs really have drives in them?
<irv> writing code on the tv, not so much.. especially not with a remote control
<irv> maybe with a keyboard
<sikory> irv: coding with a remote control, in vim
<irv> yeah, that's the plan
<hrnz> FabianS: you know that non ubuntu users aren't allowed here? :)
<TheLordOfTime> lol
<irv> 'smart tv'
<sikory> I would try that if I could
<TheLordOfTime> windows phones are evil.
<irv> has storage in it
<FabianS> hrnz: I use ubuntu on my university workstations!.
<sikory> hrnz: they aren't?
<FabianS> Well, I have to :p
<hrnz> FabianS: ;)
<hrnz> sikory: i have absolutely no idea
<sikory> TheLordOfTime: preaching to the choir
<hrnz> sikory: never been here before
<sikory> hrnz: I guess not
<sikory> me neither
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<CommieDore> It's never the year for linux, that's said every year!
<sikory> and I don't use plain ubuntu
<CommieDore> lol
<TheLordOfTime> CommieDore, stop being negative.
<SeanS> lol
<CommieDore> I thought 2007 was the year for linux?
<hrnz> CommieDore: yes it was
<sikory> it's going to be the year of the gnu/linux desktop
<hrnz> CommieDore: and every year since
<CommieDore> lol
<sikory> so this year as well
<TheLordOfTime> its the perpetual "Year of Linux" every year.
<RollinV2> whats best place to talk about ubuntu on c7 chromebook?
<CommieDore> Well, It's not "year of the dragon" every Chinese New Year
<sikory> RollinV2: #ubuntu-discuss
<sikory> maybe not
<sikory> I've never been here
<IdleOne> sikory: perfect answer
<RollinV2> sikory, lol.
<IdleOne> -discuss is the channel to "talk" about ubuntu.
 * RollinV2 just wants to know if $200 is worth it for a ubuntu powered chromebook 
<IdleOne> sounds like a reasonable price to me
<RollinV2> i think so too, but i see people having hardware issues after ubuntu updates with chrubuntu
<RollinV2> plus, im unsure of 720p playback smoothness
<Nexuus> Is the intention for the new phone to be dockable and become a full desktop?  That would be a killer feature.
<CommieDore> I think before they move to wayland, it will be a *.10 release. Mark's smart enough to know not to ship a 1.0 product on a LTS
<HumanBeing> Does anybody know what's going on with the NexPhone?
 * tiox is presently using Mint, and is an ex-Ubuntu user
<doctormon> The multiple platforms might prove to be a distraction from the desktop. But maybe it'll be a multiplier, would be unique though. For instance we have pretty poor contacts/email/messaging on the desktop, that might be improved greatly by a phone platform.
<sikory> wayland will take a while
<CommieDore> I would guess 14.10 would have wayland
<sikory> poor email? Thunderbird is awesome
<CommieDore> but not 14.04
<Thundarr> its a group of people with limited resources expanding out away from the core product they should be caring for.
<tiox> What is Wayland exactly?
<sikory> CommieDore: already?
<Thundarr> bad idea
<CommieDore> sikory: I'm just guessing
<user82> CommieDore: +1
<user82> on 14.10
<sikory> Thundarr: most Free software project are
 * RollinV2 is using Luna. ubuntu is ok as long as you avoid unity
<FabianS> The problem with wayland is the lack of drivers.
<FabianS> A display server that only runs on Intel GPUs would be kinda bad.
<sikory> and that it's not finished yet
<FabianS> Well, it works.
<doctormon> sikory: yeah, thunderbird, evolution etc, they all follow the same weird 1995 design which is just damn poor for 2013.
<tiox> Ah, I see now. So Wayland is to be the successor to X?
<FabianS> Yep.
<sikory> doctormon: why would that be bad
<FabianS> Wayland looks really promising.
<sikory> doctormon: the desine of bash is even older
<sikory> *design
<FabianS> Much better than X11.
<doctormon> sikory: Bash has it's issues, but it's much more internally consistant than email.
<FabianS> X is really really really old.
<tiox> Using Skype for Linux puts me back in 1995; In a really bad way.
<FabianS> Twice as old as linux in fact.
<FabianS> And that shows.
<sikory> the things they chose then were reasonable
<snwh> QUESTION: how is advertising going to work in the phone app ecosystem? or will there be advertising?
<FabianS> They were reasonable in 1985, yes.
<FabianS> But they are extremely stupid today.
<sikory> that's what I meant
<cjwatson> It's kind of a successor to the back half of X
<CommieDore> I hope we can install Ubuntu Phone OS on the old Sony VAIO-UX (The full desktop x86 smartphone)
<FabianS> In X WM, display Server and Compositor are three different programs. That's insane.
<sikory> doctormon: a mail client doesn't need many bells and whistles aka "design"
<doctormon> sikory: no... bells and whistles are the very opposite of design.
<joelinux> I wish they would at least show a short phone demo.
<sikory> like those screens that explode and make a triple roll before minimising
<sikory> doctormon: a good design is timeless :p
<joelinux> They've spent so much time talking about Ubuntu on Nexus 7 on the blogs.
<mhall119> joelinux: there are videos online
<FabianS> joelinux: The Verge has a handson video.
<doctormon> sikory: be careful with your infinities. But email has not remained static for 20 years.
<sikory> the protocol is pretty much the same
<joelinux> mhall119: Yea but there are a lot of people watching right now that don't know about those.
<SeanS> joelinux: did you see the trailer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4
<mhall119> joelinux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXWnMTm7We8&feature=player_embedded
<doctormon> sikory: So is the http protocol, I'm sure the web is _exactly_ the same as it was in 1995.
<tiox> I do hope that Wayland is only a codename, and that it'll take on a more universal name on release.
<FabianS> What's wrong with "wayland"?
<sikory> doctormon: but mail is messages + attachments, only more
<SeanS> or that, thanks mhall119  :)
<sikory> FabianS: it's not done yet
<FabianS> sikory: I mean with the name.
<doctormon> sikory: that's not how people use email.
<sikory> I do
<sikory> how else would you use mail?
<sikory> ok, some sort of filing system is nice
<doctormon> sikory: you're unique to never get a notifier, never use mailing lists or linked resources.
<sikory> notifiers are evil
<doctormon> sikory: I agree, but there they are.
<sikory> I check my mail when I want, not when someone else wants
<CommieDore> No, a democratic solution. I thought this was a meritocracy? ;)
<cheese1756> Wow, Ubuntu for mobile looks far better than Android
<cheese1756> Pretty nice looking
<sikory> doctormon: so I disable them
<FabianS> cheese1756: Too slow.
<tola> Does anyone know what the browser app will be in Ubuntu for Phones?
<FabianS> The Galaxy Nexus is still a really fast device.
<FabianS> It shouldn't lag.
<WanderingEnder> I'm wondering how this will work, this Ubuntu for Phones.
<FabianS> Even Android 4.0 ran more smooth on it.
<doctormon> sikory: _not_ those notifiers. The email ones. Like from facebook, twitter, ebay and what ever the hell sends you an email.
<cheese1756> FabianS, I have a Galaxy Nexus, and I'll try it out once the builds are available
<WanderingEnder> Its not that crazy insanity that Motorola was suggesting, was it
<cielak> #ubuntu is trending now on g+ :)
<cheese1756> I wouldn't be surprised if they're still tightening things up
<sikory> facebook is actually evil
<Muphrid> will it be possible to install ubuntu derivatives on the phone instead?
<doctormon> sikory: Agreed, and yet there it is.
<FabianS> UI looks really good though.
<sikory> doctormon: are those mail based?
<doctormon> sikory: They send lots of emails.
<WanderingEnder> Muphrid, woudln't they need to have been ported to ARM?
<Muphrid> WanderingEnder: yes,but  I'm more concerned about the bootloader
<CommieDore> sikory: How do you suggest to fund a social network without datamining? People don't like paying for things
<doctormon> sikory: My point is that email has been defined along the lines of it's technology. not along the lines of it's real use cases. It's poor design because it's targeting a myth.
<sikory> I suggest no social network via the internet
<sikory> doctormon: but the things you describe can be solved via a filing system in a mail client
<CommieDore> Bye everybody and I love jono's shirt
<sikory> that's only one thing
<Aiki> Me and friends are wondering if with Qt being central on the phone, Canonical will switch Unity & co. to qt, and abandon Gnome.
<RzR> hi
<sikory> hi
<RzR> any ubuntu phone developers ?
 * RzR ran regular ubuntu on his n950 :)
<mhall119> Aiki: Qt is just a toolkit, Gnome is so much more than just Gtk
<WanderingEnder> I'm still trying to figure out what "Ubuntu for Phones" is. A version for ARM architecture phones?
<mhall119> everybody is welcome to join #ubuntu-phone for further discussions of this new project
<mhall119> WanderingEnder: It's a full mobile UI based on Unity
<sikory> so people are sent from one place to the next
<mhall119> sikory: #ubuntu-discuss is a pretty generic channel
<sikory> but this is -discuss, so people can discuss here
<mhall119> sikory: you can yes
<mhall119> but the long term channel will be #ubuntu-phone
<WanderingEnder> Are there people with informati in #ubuntu-phone?
<sikory> you need to have something to talk about
<WanderingEnder> -on
<mhall119> WanderingEnder: I'm there, so there's that ;)
<RzR> #ubuntu-mobile was open too
<mhall119> #ubuntu-mobile was for working on the core of Ubuntu, optimizing it for mobile hardware
<gotwig> mhall119, where is the developer chat for the hangout :-) ?
<gotwig> mhall119, why are there no points about scopes and lenses? http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<mhall119> gotwig: #ubuntu-phone
<gotwig> mhall119, :X alright
<Walther> So, nice work on the Ubuntu phone, when will it be available for download?
<DJones> Walther: Looks like discussion & support has been moved to #ubuntu-phone now
<Walther> Also, any news on Ubuntu Nexus 7 project?
<Walther> Possible to dualboot yet without causing anything permanent / voiding warranty etc?
<reindeernix> Does anybody know if they will use Compiz for the Ubuntu phone? o:
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-discuss to: Welcome to #ubuntu-discuss. This is a channel for high quality on-topic non-support discussions about Ubuntu | Non Ubuntu stuff to #ubuntu-offtopic or the relevant other channel | We follow the CoC at all times here | No ranting here please | Ubuntu for Phones discussion has moved to #ubuntu-phone
<popey> reindeernix: see /topic ;)
<reindeernix> popey, oh hehe oversaw that >.<
<UnderControl> Morning everyone.
<Thundarr> is there a down side to using lubuntu other than it being supposedly a bit bland looking? I know its the 'light weight' distro, but functionality wise, it works the same as any other buntu in practice, right?
<FabianS> Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Ubuntu are exactly the same.
<FabianS> Only with different default packages.
<Thundarr> ok, ty.
<Thundarr> I kind of like that clean minimal look anyway.
<jrtappers> Should we change the update center and software sources icons?
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-03
<Tm_T> good morning
<benkaiser> anyone know if we will be able to flash Ubuntu phone os though clockworkmod recovery just like cyanogenmod? and will there be a place to download builds for individual phones (once again like cyanogenmod)?
<cousteau> so what's this "Ubuntu SDK" thing?
<cousteau> I've been seeing what things this Ubuntu for Phones thing brings, but I didn't get clear whether normal Linux apps will run there
<cousteau> this is, will random programs work on an Ubuntu phone?  e.g. Geany, games...
<SoWhat> I wanted to know, if UbuntuPhone is able to use A-GPS?
<SoWhat> Apple and Android has their own CellID and Wifi AP databases, so I wanted to know, if UbuntuPhone also has something like that?
<jrtappers> How do I get a signal type from a USB 3G modem, i.e. EDGE/GPRS/HSPDA
<SoWhat> I know that you can get it by sending AT commands directly to modem chip
<jrtappers> SoWhat, how do I do that with the USB one, I have only used serial with the arduino
<SoWhat> there is a software that can do it. In windows I use Realterm
<jrtappers> SoWhat, how for a USB 3G modem?
<SoWhat> http://3g-modem.wetpaint.com/page/executing+AT-commands+under+Windows
<jrtappers> Im on ubuntu
<SoWhat> I am not :(
 * Calinou now has "Just Give Me The Beans!" title on ubuntu forums :>
<chu> lol
<SoWhat> maybe this helps http://linux-101.org/script/python-code-sending-sms-messages-usb-connected-mobile-phone
<jrtappers> How do I find the serial port of a usb 3g modem for at commands
<RollinV2> anyone here have ubuntu running on the c7 chromebook? i have a few performance questions
<Calinou> RollinV2: 1) sell chromebook 2) buy a good desktop 3) ??? 4) PROFIT (not valid here)
<jrtappers> Where do suggestions for ubuntu / network manager features go?
<AlanBell> jrtappers: you could file a bug on launchpad with your suggestion
<jrtappers> Its not a bug
<jrtappers> Its a missing feature
<genii-around> jrtappers: If you file a bug report with title Wishlist that's usually how it works
<jrtappers> Oh, ok
<jrtappers> So I file bug report with title wishlist and link to the idea page?
<genii-around> Sure, plus maybe a synopsis in the actual report, etc
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-06
<topper4125> Hmm... any reason why System76 machines aren't listed on http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/desktop/
<mesquka> hi
<mesquka> hi
<cjohnston> mesquka: hi
<mesquka> How are they going on with the ubuntu phone, how far are they?
<k1l_> they are busy showing the phone to the visitors on CES :)
<cjohnston> mesquka: if you read all the info online, I'm sure you will find it.
<mesquka> cool, any ROM's released yet?
<cjohnston> my last statement will give you that info as well
<popey> as will the /topic of #ubuntu-phone
<mesquka> Hi
<TheLordOfTime> iH
<TheLordOfTime> :P
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-12-30
<tiv> hi there, please advice what better for router server OS: Ubuntu or CentOS?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-12-31
<Pici> invisible /36
<Pici> <.<
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-01-02
<william1978> Anyone here?
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-01-03
<HowTo_User> hi everyone! :)
<HowTo_User> Windows 7 or 8.1?
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-04
<nenis43> Favorite distro?
<Ben64> ubuntu
<nenis43> Why?
<Ben64> works for me
<nenis43> Why the pref for Unity over MATE?
<Ben64> who said i use unity
<nenis43> What do you use?
<Ben64> gnome-fallback
 * Bashing-om uses xfce
<nenis43> Xubuntu?
<daftykins> it can be xfce without being xubuntu :)
<Ben64> i wouldn't consider xubuntu as its own distro really
<nenis43> Really?
<nenis43> Xubuntu is very different from Ubuntu!
<daftykins> http://cdn.meme.am/instances/58609464.jpg
<Ben64> not so much
<EriC^^> daftykins: :D
<daftykins> this is crazy - http://twitch.tv/gamesdonequick
<EriC^^> what is that?
<daftykins> a stream where folks are playing an old mario kart game right now with all these skills to make it really fast
<daftykins> knowing all the tricks in the game etc
<EriC^^> guy to the right is pretty sick
<daftykins> charity event donating to cancer research afaiui
<daftykins> omw this ice hopping is amazing
<EriC^^> 92million people are watching right now?
<EriC^^> ah nevermind
<EriC^^> that's total views, 147k right now
<daftykins> :>
<EriC^^> pretty nuts
<daftykins> livestreamer.io is ace for these streams
<daftykins> bypasses the horrible site flash
<daftykins> you get a proper HTTP live streaming (HLS) feed, which can be hardware accelerated
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> one second O_O
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Irt Eirikr As a 1st poke, reinstall the radeon driver ? ' sudo apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg-video-radeon '
<daftykins> could be worth a go!
<daftykins> i also found "sudo apt-get install --reinstall libgl1-mesa-glx libgl1-mesa-dri xserver-xorg-core
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Uh huh .. was to be my next suggestion failing a simple reinstall of the driver .
<daftykins> very frustrating when the Xorg log shows them trying to be used (ati + radeon) and yet ignoring for no reason
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Yeah .. system all confused . Ya done right . take away the choice !
<daftykins> yay it was that easy :>
<Bashing-om> Meanwhile, back to waiting for our next victum :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i must depart for sleep however
<daftykins> g'night sir \o
<Bashing-om> g-Night daftykins . Not far behind you .
<lotuspsychje> !info playonlinux
<ubot5`> playonlinux (source: playonlinux): front-end for Wine. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 4.2.5-1 (vivid), package size 1101 kB, installed size 4190 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/playonlinux-and-playonmac-4-2-10-out-now-for-linux-and-mac-based-on-wine-1-8-498351.shtml
<lotuspsychje> good morning EriC^^ :p
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ive been reading on forums of cars, same problems with clutch in 1st shuttering cars
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: is it possible to replace parts on the glutch, for more smoothness in 1st gear?
<EriC^^> you have to get used to it more i guess
<EriC^^> honestly
<lotuspsychje> dang
<EriC^^> in older cars you could adjust the point at which the clutch engages, newer ones are hydraulic and self adjusting
<lotuspsychje> i cant get used to this pfff
<EriC^^> but that wouldn't affect smoothness unless it was way off to begin with
<lotuspsychje> its really anoying
<EriC^^> you probably need to give it more gas if it's shaking and stuff
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: its not shaking anymore, because i release it very very slow
<EriC^^> that's the engine like almost dying and getting the rpms too low for a steady rotation
<EriC^^> so what's the problem exactly
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but when i release to quick, cars shutsdown
<lotuspsychje> so every time i stop at the redlights
<lotuspsychje> i start slow, because of too carefully releasing glutch
<lotuspsychje> its very sensitive
<lotuspsychje> and on the new car, i could release it in like 2sec
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Did you put the clutch plate in backwards ??
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: i dont fix car myself, its a nissan almera 1400 from '95
<lotuspsychje> everyone is telling me i need to hit the gas a bit....but on the new car i didnt have to do that
<lotuspsychje> just release glutch fully, only then i had to hit gas
<EriC^^> it's cause it had more torque or a better idle management system ( that compensated for a lower rpm when you released quicker )
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: so i just have to face its an old car, nothing to replace so make it less sensitive?
<EriC^^> you have to get better at driving manual tranny
<EriC^^> it just takes some time, you'll get it
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> or save so money for a newer car :p
<EriC^^> if you want to get this too little gas too much gas thing, try this, give it gas like you're revving the engine and let off the throttle, like how you see people do vroom..vroom.. quickly in movies?
<EriC^^> nah it's better to actually learn skills :P
<EriC^^> so give it gas like that, and then remove the clutch a bit
<EriC^^> did you get what i mean?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: whats the technical part of this technique?
<EriC^^> it's like feeling for it
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: engine goes in higher rpm is better to release glutch?
<EriC^^> well it's like it will allow you to adjust
<EriC^^> see if you give a huge rpm, but release the clutch only a bit, you want move forward, cause the clutch isn't fully engaged
<EriC^^> so since you're revving it like that, the car won't die that easily and you have like a buffer to play with
<lotuspsychje> ok
<EriC^^> it'll get you used to the adjustment between clutch and throttle
<lotuspsychje> ok ill try tnx
<EriC^^> *wont move
<Bashing-om> I have had all the fun I can stand .. lotuspsychje will you handle my light work till I return ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: of course mate, sleep tight
<Bashing-om> later all
<sam_yan> Hi I  use Ubuntu15.04 and  when I use systemctl status plymouth-halt.serviceã It tell me "Failed to get D-bus connection"
<sam_yan> How to deal with this ?
<lotuspsychje> sam_yan: join #ubuntu please
<sam_yan> ok
<lotuspsychje> !factoids
<ubot5`> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-discuss's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots | Make a clone of me: /msg ubot5` botclone
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lordievader> Hmm, the snow turned to rain :(
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<daftykins> more sensitive helpers *sigh*
<cfhowlett> feelz > realz
<BluesKaj> then stay away from the ##linux chat, gotta have a fairly thick skin to deal with any mistakes one makes there  ;-)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> get a bit personal, do they?
<cfhowlett> they do have that rep, don't they?
<BluesKaj>  yeah, they have a few ppl who love to overeact to small advice mistakes
<TJ-> I have several of the older regulars on permanent ignore there
<BluesKaj> hehe TJ- , i find it entertaining and even informative at times, unless certain parties get into the spew rants
<TJ-> I don't come here to suffer fools; I filter out those that don't deserve my attention :P
<BluesKaj> they do have their share of trolls dropping by alright
<cfhowlett> I am reminded daily of hexchat's best feature: easily deployed and fully functional /ingore
<cfhowlett>   /ignore
<BluesKaj> yup
<TJ-> note to self: deal with outstanding todos more regularly! I'm having to go through tabs for bugs-in-progress that I've worked on since September and ubuntu devs haven't responded to. Grrr!
<BluesKaj> interesting , i just found a 14.04 backport ppa that's just full of bugfixesand upgrades, which wasn't even mentioned in the logs in the dev chat ...couldn't beleive it slipped past me
<BluesKaj> back in november
<TJ-> Isn't that where fixes are trialed before being moved into -updates or -security ?
<BluesKaj> TJ-:  usually they're uploaded to the repos default backports afaik, it was a surprise to me
<TJ-> before they get into the archives though they're generally trialed via a PPA amongst developers
<BluesKaj> yeah, I keep thinking of 14.04 as more mature than it actaully is in it's development, LTSs are most like a limited rolling release.
<TJ-> down to the last 7 tabs (of ~ 100!) and found several ubu-pastes I'd saved that contain useful shell script snippers - I'll squoo.sh them :)
<TJ-> !atemyram
<ubot5`> If you are wondering why some tools report your system has very little free memory, have a look at http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
<daftykins> om nom nom RAM
<EriC^^> hey all
<EriC^^> how are you doing?
<daftykins> hello thar o/ all good here thanks, and you?
<EriC^^> hey daftykins :D
<EriC^^> good as well thank you :D
<daftykins> i have some electronics porn for you today if you're interested!
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r4xai3xjfx0ennk/AACXB79DA9gow6GTJOT5TQt4a?dl=0
<EriC^^> cool, sure
<EriC^^> yay!
<EriC^^> awesome
<EriC^^> good job daftykins !
<daftykins> ty :>
<daftykins> mad the whole thing had to come apart to do it, but ah well - took maybe 40 mins
<EriC^^> not bad!
<daftykins> paste site has been seriously crawling for me of late :/
<daftykins> just sits loading...
<EriC^^> which one?
<EriC^^> paste.ubuntu.com?
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i don't even code and know how to set up the tools :( ugh these guys :P
<EriC^^> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-05
<Bashing-om> I here, better late than never .
<daftykins> hallo o/
<daftykins> the day didn't bring you any troubles, i hope :)
<Bashing-om> No. not al all .. just busy with wiring - a good day . Tired and is good to sit down before this terminal . Your world daftykins ?
<daftykins> ooh yes the wiring jobs too. yep all good here thanks! though i did get a text from the place i'm cabling up to say they lost their phone dial tone and broadband for 1hr earlier today o0 can't for the life of me think what that is, other than the bad weather we've been having
<TJ-> mice in the machine :O
 * TJ- recalls the photo of daftykins patch panels
<daftykins> TJ-: it's not even in use yet :D
<daftykins> the telco claimed they had no issue, allegedly
<TJ-> hmmmm
<daftykins> but maybe they just lied and fixed it
<TJ-> is the CPE entry-point underground or overhead ?
<daftykins> underground
<daftykins> got their little plastic box on the front elevation, then cat6 into the basement where the master socket is
<TJ-> could be groundwater in a distribution point
<daftykins> i'll have to hope the retired engineer pal has some contacts he can ask to check
<daftykins> but the guys wife does a lot of online learning and skype client calls so they need a good reliable service :S
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-16.04-Alpha-1
<sam_yan> HI! In ubuntu 15.04 ,there is no irqbalance unit with systemd.Does ubuntu give up irqbalance ?
<lotuspsychje> sam_yan: not here, this is the discuss channel
<cfhowlett> sam_yan, wrong channel ...
<sam_yan> which channel should i  go ?
<cfhowlett> sam_yan, #ubuntu.  ask your question.  be patient.
<sam_yan> ok thanks
<Ben64> i wish i could wipe ftp from existence
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<Bashing-om> Guys, getting settled in . Hoz it been going ?
<nicomachus> installing MS Office on Ubuntu feels so... wrong.
<daftykins> why's it happening D:
<daftykins> Bashing-om: o/ ah you beat me today ;)
 * daftykins strolls in
<nicomachus> need Excel for work... LibreCalc just isn't cutting it on the formatting.
<Bashing-om> \o .. Hay daftykins , been slow ,,, I loggi on @ 18.02 GMT .
<nicomachus> oh man I forgot how bad Office 2007 looked.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> 2013 looks like someone poured bleach all over it
<daftykins> white... everywhere!
<nicomachus> 2007 is just a crappy blue color.. and curves. curves everywhere.
<TJ-> syntax error: "2007" is not a valid CSS color :P
<nicomachus> TJ-: :P
<nicomachus> this color *shouldn't* be a valid color... it's just...bad
<Bashing-om> Sometimes like pulling teeth .. for something so simple to do .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-06
<Bashing-om> !info wubi
<ubot5`> Package wubi does not exist in vivid
<Bashing-om> !wubi
<ubot5`> Wubi was a way to install Ubuntu from within Windows, but it is no longer supported in recent versions of Ubuntu and was never well maintained even for Ubuntu 12.04. Do not use Wubi. See !install for other options for installing Ubuntu.
<daftykins> death to wubi \o/
<DosTuMai> *\o/* wubi is... ick.
<daftykins> dem pom poms
 * DosTuMai shakes her pompoms.
<Bashing-om> There is a link - somewhere - that relates that UEFI can not support WUBI .. beats me where I saw it .
<daftykins> hmm, figures
<DosTuMai> I'm off to sleep guys & gals. Night all. o/
<Bashing-om> I done, gone for the spell . G nite guys .
<lotuspsychje> morning
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-linux-vagrant-images-pass-the-10-million-download-mark-says-canonical-498492.shtml
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<snow_richard> hi
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-361
<ubot5`> Package nvidia-361 does not exist in vivid
<DJones> ubot5` probably needs updating to give wily info, rather than vivid
<ubot5`> DJones: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<DJones> I know you're not
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> DJones: i was looking up latest nvidia driver, but still beta prolly not added yet
<DJones> -352 looks like its in xenial
<DJones> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=xenial&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=nvidia
<lotuspsychje> yeah 352 is latest
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-352
<ubot5`> nvidia-352 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-352): NVIDIA binary driver - version 352.63. In component restricted, is optional. Version 352.63-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 32631 kB, installed size 149224 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf)
<DJones> !info nvidia-352
<ubot5> nvidia-352 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-352): NVIDIA binary driver - version 352.63. In component restricted, is optional. Version 352.63-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 32631 kB, installed size 149224 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf)
<DJones> !info nvidia-364
<ubot5> Package nvidia-364 does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-361
<ubot5> Package nvidia-361 does not exist in vivid
<lotuspsychje> DJones: think its still beta testing
<lotuspsychje> DJones: tnx for trying though :p
<DJones> Was checking whether the bot had been updated to wily
<lotuspsychje> kk
<Braybaut> ubot5, login to channel #Ubuntu for Request Support
<ubot5> Braybaut: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<daftykins> i don't know whether to laugh or cry at that poor translation
<nicomachus> a LOT more joins/parts/quits than normal...
<OerHeks> solarbursts, probably
<OerHeks> :-D
<nicomachus> stupid sun.
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> is it me or is bujjii claiming this ISO is 100GB... lol
<OerHeks> not even ubuntu, i guess
<daftykins> what OS would be 100GB XD
<OerHeks> total repo sizes together are less than that, no?
<nicomachus> daftykins: I asked him about that... never got an answer that made sense.
<daftykins> i really hate bujjii, tonnes of run-ins over the last 2 years
<nicomachus> he says he downloaded 100+gb and made the iso file...
<daftykins> at least he's stopped using the UK channel when he's in India or somewhere.
<nicomachus> yep... IP is India.
<daftykins> so much hate from HackerII once more ;)
<Drtro> Is there a good video player with a playlist (watching TV series) besides Totem?
<daftykins> this isn't a support channel, Drtro
<DosTuMai> I'd suggest #ubuntu for that. =o
<nicomachus> what is going on...
<daftykins> i just don't know :(
<nicomachus> the guy's good at evading bans, that's for sure...
<DosTuMai> Can't MAC filter?
<daftykins> likely using tor or some other childish mechanism
<nicomachus> idk what they can do, but MACs are easy to spoof.
<DosTuMai> If you know what you're doing.
<DosTuMai> He might just be using some 3rd party tools to skip the ban.
<nicomachus> that Lenovo Yoga is a pile of crap when it comes to touchpad/touchscreen drivers. A guy I work has had a bunch of problems with ghost clicks/text entry on the touchscreen, even on windows.
<nicomachus> work with*
<daftykins> nasty, i think that comes up in the reviews a lot
<daftykins> but then hard to say if the Windows install is the factory one, i never consider keeping those installs at all
<nicomachus> idk what they tried to do on that... but they failed.
<daftykins> lots of these new machines at CES are achieving a slim form by going with the rubbish Intel Core M
<pauljw> EriC^^, how ya doin?
<daftykins> ooh lots of joins :>
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-07
<OerHeks> LoLz..
<OerHeks> phone, plug in phone, Dylan___  56k6
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> hi pauljw , fine thanks, yourself?
<daftykins> OerHeks: did dylan seriously plug a phone cable into his LAN port? i have him on ignore so couldn't see :>
<OerHeks> He seems not to understand it, yes.
<daftykins> tee-hee
<OerHeks> but he got connected, but no network and such
<OerHeks> uncertain what is he making up now
<pauljw> doing fine EriC^^ :)
<EriC^^> :)
<Ben64> i couldn't get an answer out of him
<Ben64> at first he said it "didn't fit"
<Ben64> but then he said that ubuntu didn't say it was connected
<Ben64> so... who knows
<daftykins> lol
<pauljw> well, time to call it a night.  see ya all tomorrow.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
 * nicomachus checks clock
<nicomachus> yes, good morning I suppose. ha
<lotuspsychje> :p
<nicomachus> been trying to track down a .css file that's making my system menu fonts the same color as the system menu background. :/
<nicomachus> Hmmm... the only place the hex code for that color appears is in /usr/share/gtk-doc/html/totem/style.css, and I don't think that's it.
<rww> so, heads up
<rww> at the same time as r0x had Ubuntu wifi issues:
<rww> 08:23 --> r0x (~r0x@95.244.21.211) has joined ##windows
<rww> 08:23 < r0x> Hi
<rww> 08:24 < r0x> I had a big problem with windows 10
<rww> 08:24 < r0x> the start button doesn't work anymore
<rww> nothing definite, but it's odd
<lotuspsychje> rww: crosspost suspect?
<rww> help vampire suspect
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> nice job on the !mac renew trigger
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<nicomachus> finally fixed my panel menu colors! \o/
<Bashing-om> Away from keyboard for an hour and a bit . Be back soonest . :)
 * slidinghorn is just now learning the joys of reading the #u-ops log
<lotuspsychje> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> that channel is publicly logged also?
<daftykins> *nod*
<slidinghorn> yep
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the tip :p
<lotuspsychje> lets c what all the angry ones discuss all day :p
<lotuspsychje> !logs
<ubot5> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too. Meeting logs from meetingology at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/
<daftykins> well they have another secret chan for that
 * lotuspsychje feels like intruding :p
<OerHeks> lolz, i just read todays log too, ilhami and an3k :-D
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<slidinghorn> Is it frowned upon to go into #u with two nicks simultaneously?
<nicomachus> what's with all the +/-j in #ubuntu today?
<OerHeks> slidinghorn, some do, with 2 machines, but it is unwanted to act like 2 people
<slidinghorn> gotcha...just saw that eks & eks_ enter earlier & wondered what that was about
<OerHeks> ohhh, maybe the user crashed/netsplit, so the 2nd name you can set is used
<OerHeks> some clients have that option
<rww> nicomachus: netsplits
<rww> join restriction + flood of people joining because of netsplit-related churn = bad
<rww> so the bot sets -j on netsplit detect, and then sets +j when it's been over for a while. and in the meantime netsplit resolution sometimes resets +j
<nicomachus> ahhh I see. thanks.
<DosTuMai> Hmm, good way to control rejoin floods.
<slidinghorn> what is _nemesys on about?
<rww> that's not what it's controlling. +j is usually set to stop problematic people from joining a craptonne of clients to the channel for spam purposes. it's unset during netsplits so that legitimate users don't get issues joining
<Bashing-om> back from power outage .
<slidinghorn> Bashing-om: rough weather?
<Bashing-om> slidinghorn: No, rain is all ... no idea where in the power grid the failure ocurred . I have learned the valie of frequent 'saves' on my working data; so a quick 'fsck' and all looks good , and relogin to internet connections, and restart all applications. Back up and running !
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-08
<slidinghorn> weird...this user's saying it's taking several minutes to process a lsusb command  :-$
<sam_yan> HI where is definition  of envoronment variables "UPSTART_SESSION"
<slidinghorn> sam_yan: This isn't a support channel...I'll be happy to try to help in #ubuntu if I can though....please see me over there :)
 * slidinghorn doesn't understand the appeal to talking to one's self through 2 nicks
<lotuspsychje> slidinghorn: at least they have someone to talk to :p
<slidinghorn> aw, now I feel bad for them
<slidinghorn> ...apparently they called themselves a "hot moth"?  is that some kind of cultural thing in Germany?
<lotuspsychje> slidinghorn: never heard that expressions really
<lotuspsychje> mostly its moin moin :p
<slidinghorn> Interesting...I only knew of "guten morgen"
<lordievader> Good morning.
<slidinghorn> wb lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj_> Howdy folks
<slidinghorn> Morning BluesKaj_
<BluesKaj_> 'Morning slidinghorn
<Bashing-om> !register
<ubot5> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<pauljw> hi everyone
<daftykins> greetings o/
<pauljw> :)
<Bashing-om> candidate for the dumbest question of the day "  I would like to know if is possible to share the System RAM from one PC to another. " ??
<pauljw> :)
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, sure.
<OerHeks> landscape, some machines, share mem, cpu, disk, network, gpu
<Bashing-om> true ^ ; But interface speeds would be so slow .
<OerHeks> maybe one can share a file in systemmemory.
<OerHeks> but sharing ram as storage, i think it is useless.
<nicomachus> jeeeeeeeez. been on the phone ALL day for work. just can't get away.
<DosTuMai> >_<
<daftykins> =[
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-09
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/01/ubuntu-online-search-feature-disabled-16-04
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/01/05/celebrating-over-10-million-vagrant-ubuntu-downloads/
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<slidinghorn> ikonia: I think bogdan's computer is about to be a very fancy paperweight if they continue they way they're going...
<OerHeks> true that, such old videocard, probably AGP.
<Bashing-om> I find " < bogdan> No " very offensive to those of us trying to help, quickly gets added to the ignore list .
<OerHeks> Some do it the hard way
<nicomachus> oh boy.
<nicomachus> 12:12 < bogdan> I want to make my own distro
 * slidinghorn cringes
<OerHeks> saturday support, the best day to get bonkers
<OerHeks> i need, because i want :-D
<sasquatch_> 273 linux distros and counting
<sasquatch_> there is RebeccaBlackOS, named after an American singer and YouTuber who gained extensive media attention with the 2011 single "Friday". After the video went viral on YouTube and other social media sites, "Friday" was derided by many music critics and viewers, who dubbed it "the worst song ever"
<slidinghorn> nicomachus: I believe bogdan is Russian
<sasquatch_> the linux from scratch guide is in english, russian and other languages
<sasquatch_> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/read.html
<sasquatch_> too much involved with making a distro to coach from irc
<nicomachus> yea I was just trying to get him into the russian channel, but apparently he doesn't want that. and is already there.
<slidinghorn> i looked there earlier to see if he was there.  It's pretty dead there
<sasquatch_> make that 274 linux distros
<nicomachus> well it's the middle of the night in most parts of russia right now
 * nicomachus just noticed how many time zones Russia actually covers... holy cow
<slidinghorn> I keep forgetting that the whole world isn't on EST ;)
<sasquatch_> most of their population lives from moscow to the west
<OerHeks> webbrowser simple program .. i knew it :-D
<slidinghorn> ?
<OerHeks> i am not too old to learn from bogdan, slidinghorn
<slidinghorn> what was the original goal this person was trying to accomplish?  These weeds are DEEEEP....
<OerHeks> getting drivers for Radeon 9550
<OerHeks> i think
<slidinghorn> and he somehow got from there to building his own distro??  :-$
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-10
<lotuspsychje> !info uget
<ubot5> uget (source: uget): easy-to-use download manager written in GTK+. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.10.4-1ubuntu1 (wily), package size 218 kB, installed size 1017 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.3.0.5.6 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 11 kB
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: ^^
<daftykins> yay
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Ben64> lotuspsychje: ?
<lotuspsychje> can i pm
<Ben64> yeah
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> !info xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu
<ubot5> xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu (source: xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu): X.Org X server -- AMDGPU display driver. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.01~git20150807-0ubuntu1 (wily), package size 50 kB, installed size 145 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<lotuspsychje> !info xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu trusty
<ubot5> Package xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu does not exist in trusty
<lotuspsychje> right
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> hi everyone
<pauljw> wb EriC^^
<EriC^^> thanks pauljw
<EriC^^> how are you?
<pauljw> doing well thanks, cold and snowy here today.  :)  how about yourself?
<EriC^^> good thanks :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, snowing and cold here too, blustery
<BluesKaj> well it is winter in Northern Ontario. Gotta expect it sooner or later despite the mild temps we've been having :-)
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Same here in Arkansas. This is our 1st cool spell . Has been very plesant to this time for Winter .
<BluesKaj> Arkansas, you guys actually get winter down there? :-)
<Bashing-om> :) Warm Blooded Southern Boy !
<pauljw> i'm in indiana and this is our first cold and snow of the year, love it.  :)
<Bashing-om> Yesterday's snow and ice went South of me here .. I am glad to say .
<BluesKaj> I'm a norherner thru and thru, was born north of Helsinki Finland
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> these old kness prevent me from participating in winter sports, so I sit in my easy chair and fool with Linux :-)
<BluesKaj> knees even
<Bashing-om> And that cold is invigorating - rejuvinating effect on some ... However. I spent a Winter in Chicago - once - .
<BluesKaj> yeah, winter can be nasty there
<pauljw> lake effect is bad in that area
<Bashing-om> Yeah .. I did survive .. Amazed me every time mu ole car started in that cold .
<BluesKaj> I'm 15mi from what's known as the North Shore/Channel on Georgian Bay/Lake Huron and we do get some lake effects snows
<pauljw> :) i spent about 5yrs in MN in the early '80s and had an '82 diesel rabbit and one morning i came out from work to go home and my fuel had gel'd in the tank, i had to take a trash lid and charcoal and build a fire under the tank to get it to flow again.
<BluesKaj> whoa ..
<pauljw> after that, i'd go out at lunch time and start the car and let it run for the rest of the night. :)
<BluesKaj> sounds like you may have had some condensation in your fuel tank
<BluesKaj> that's a problem here when the temps get down past -15F , so most ppl add gas line antfreeze/alcohol to their fuel tanks
<EriC^^> that's pretty resourceful
<BluesKaj> absorbs the water in the fuel
<pauljw> don't think so, it's just the nature of diesel fuel.  many manufacturers offer tank heaters
<EriC^^> i mean the using a trash lid and charcoal
<pauljw> :)
<EriC^^> i didn't know rabbits came in diesel btw
<EriC^^> i had a mk2 16v as a first car, loved it dearly
<BluesKaj> ok , don't know anyone with a deisel engine in their vehicle
<pauljw> i loved that car
<pauljw> BluesKaj, you are right with gasoline, i've used more than my share of fuel-dri..
<BluesKaj> I'm keeping my old taurus running for another yr before I trade it, only 55K Mi on it so it still runs fine.
<pauljw> just getting broken in!!
<BluesKaj> yeah, we don't have to drive very far to shop etc and we visit our kids a couple times/yr ,but not much driving otherwise
<BluesKaj> kids are 300mi and 450 mi away respectively, so not a lot of milage really
<pauljw> i hope to get another 10 years from both of my vehicles, the '04 Trailblazer only has 82,000mi and the '03 Ranger Edge 4x4 has about 122,000.  now that i'm retired, i won't be putting too many miles on the Ranger and will use the chevy for road trips to see the grandkids in Wisconsin.
<BluesKaj> the taurus is 11 yrs old, an '05 and we travel to Windsor/Detroit to visit our son and his family and my daughters and grandkids live in Toronto
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> enjoying my retirement as well pauljw
<pauljw> nice
<BluesKaj> had an old f150, but it finally died after close to 30yrs
<BluesKaj> it was a beater when I bought it and I drove that thing for 13 yrs
<pauljw> with just a bit of care it's amazing how long these beasts can last
<BluesKaj> truly
<BluesKaj> I miss having a truck :/
<pauljw> they are handy
 * BluesKaj nods
<Bashing-om> Pats my old '82 Toyota .. most a million miles on it and still reliable .
<pauljw> my ranger came with a topper and i was originally gonna take it off and sell it but didn't and now i'm glad i kept it.  i've yet to need to haul anything that wouldn't fit and i don't have to worry about anything falling out of it on my way to the dump/recycling center.
<pauljw> Bashing-om, that's remarkable
<Bashing-om> Just keep the oil and filters changed, run good gas in it .. good to go .
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> bbiab, just reinstalled kubuntu 14.04 and still doing some upgrades
<pauljw> wb
<BluesKaj> thanks
<pauljw> bbl
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ all ok mate?
<EriC^^> yeah :D
<EriC^^> you good?
<lotuspsychje> fine fine tnx :p
<EriC^^> my car's dead
<lotuspsychje> ouch, what you did?
<EriC^^> the battery is dead
<lotuspsychje> awww
<EriC^^> won't start, i think it died cause of the cold
<nicomachus> bad cell. :/
<nicomachus> got a charger?
<nicomachus> or jumper cables and a friendly neighbor?
<EriC^^> nope no charger
<EriC^^> or jumper cables
<nicomachus> ah. they are a solid investment.
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Battery died on my pickup too . Will get it replaced tomorrow :)
<EriC^^> i'm going to try something tomorrow
<EriC^^> crushed aspirin is supposed to give it enough oomph for another crank
<EriC^^> never tried it before, but what the heck
<EriC^^> i'll put some crushed aspirin and try to crank it, if it starts i'll drive to the nearest shop and get another battery
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Never heard of that one . If it works, a good thing to know .
<nicomachus> have them check the battery first! it may just be cold and not need replacing
<EriC^^> yeah, it supposedly can let a battery crank but it shortens the life of the battery, it's like in case you're stranded somewhere it's good to keep some aspirin for that
<EriC^^> nicomachus: it's like 3-4 years old, been meaning to replace it but it was still working fine and i was lazy
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: nicomachus ^^ +1 . If it is cold, oil is thick and the engine is HARD to turn over .
<EriC^^> nah, i have a turbo timer in it and it shows the battery voltage
<EriC^^> it was like 8-9v
<EriC^^> it's pretty flat lined
<EriC^^> :|
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: we payed like 180 euro for new batter last time for nissan almera : |
<EriC^^> damn, that's expensive
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> it's like $70 for 62amps batteries here
<nicomachus> EriC^^: you're in the US, right?
<EriC^^> no, lebanon
<nicomachus> ah. probably don't have US auto parts stores then. haha
<EriC^^> lol nah
<lotuspsychje> soon we will all sit n drink in the back of an ubuntu car, driving us around lol
<nicomachus> bogdan must have a short memory...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> :-D
<nicomachus> interesting bug exposed in Nvidia drivers that seems to "break" incognito mode on Chrome: https://charliehorse55.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/how-nvidia-breaks-chrome-incognito/
<nicomachus> warning: heavily censored pornography.
<nicomachus> users report similar behavior with the nouveau driver on linux as well as windows.
<OerHeks> sounds like a trim issue for GPU's
<OerHeks> :-D
<nicomachus> any of you guys any good with python?
<EriC^^> i think DosTuMai is a python junkie
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-02
<Bashing-om> daftykins: You awake ?
<daftykins> yes sir-ee
<Bashing-om> Are you free to give a 2nd SMART opinion : http://paste.ubuntu.com/23725039/ ?
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> ooh yes '3 current_pending_sector' so that suggests the data should be copied off that disk for a backup, then the drive fully zeroed to see how many bad sectors are encountered - they might all remap, or a huge number might be found and reallocated... but until it's done, likely that disk will keep causing trouble to the OS, software or user data
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Thans my same same thought . will relay ^ . thanks heaps .
<daftykins> np :)
<ducasse> good morning all
<Bashing-om> Outa here, g nite
<ObrienDave> slacker ;P
 * ducasse bangs head repeatedly on table
<EriC^^> is it just me or there hasn't been any upgrades in a few days?
<EriC^^> dist-upgrade always returns no packages since 12-21
<EriC^^> seems odd
<ducasse> EriC^^: on xenial?
<EriC^^> yeah
<ducasse> same on yakkety. i assumed it was just the holidays.
<EriC^^> yeah same here
<EriC^^> ok cool, thanks :)
<ducasse> we'll probably see some in a couple of days :)
<EriC^^> yeah :)
<ducasse> EriC^^: happy new year, btw :)
<EriC^^> ducasse: thanks, you too :)
<EriC^^> ducasse: we really should write that little ppa script thing
<EriC^^> (the one we made last time to purge non launchpad ppa's)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> EriC^^: i had some ideas about that, i think i wrote them down somewhere. i'll go hunting when i get the time.
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj - all good?
<BluesKaj> fine here ,and you, ducasse?
<ducasse> good, thanks. right now i'm considering  whether to swap a cpu cooler myself or just pay someone to do it for me. it's the one component i'm still kind of nervous about messing with, after i tried doing it on a pc that had the cooler glued to the cpu without anyone telling me.
<EriC^^> glued?
<EriC^^> xD
<ducasse> yeah. wth would someone do that?
<ducasse> of course when i removed the cooler, the cpu was yanked right out of the socket and all the pins bent.
<BluesKaj> first of all, why do you need a cpu cooler, overclocking "ain't what it used to be" :-)
<ducasse> because stock intel coolers suck :)
<ducasse> i don't need to oc, i just need to be able to load the cpu significantly at all.
<BluesKaj> which intel cpu?
<ducasse> 4790k
<BluesKaj> ooh, so the I7 runs hot
<ducasse> trying to rip+encode a bluray it reached 80Â°C...
<ducasse> no, that won't kill the cpu, but...
<EriC^^> yeah mine runs pretty similarly if i'm watching a movie on hdmi tv
<EriC^^> it's an hp, they're pretty notorious for overheating
<ducasse> i dislike that, so i bought a noctua nh-u12s. big, heavy thingamajig :)
<EriC^^> :)
<BluesKaj> how much of the decoding is handled by the gpu ? just the X vectors I suppose
<ducasse> BluesKaj: this is all intel, so the gpu is on-die anyway.
<EriC^^> ducasse: anyways any time you're ready to embark on this miniproject i'm ready
<EriC^^> (the ppa script)
<ducasse> lordy, this cat is sneaky. now she has figured out how to get into the cupboard where i keep her treats :)
<EriC^^> :D
<ducasse> EriC^^: i'll let you know when i find those notes and have some time. i have a couple of translations coming up now.
<EriC^^> ok :D
<ducasse> EriC^^: i'm trying to learn python (which would be good for this), but i think i was born without some gene that coders all have :)
<EriC^^> yeah it would be good
<EriC^^> nah, i think tj's onto something with his quit msg
<EriC^^> "the only intuitive interface is the nipple"
<EriC^^> pretty funny, but it is true, everything's learned :)
<ducasse> :D
<BluesKaj> never had much interest in coding...leave it to the detail diggers
<EriC^^> yeah same here, i'm more of i'll do it if i need to get the job done
<EriC^^> tiny scripts aren't that bad though
<BluesKaj> yeah I use some bash scripts for network startup at boot and some in .openvpn and .bash_alises for convenience sake
<BluesKaj> aliases even
<BluesKaj> they're basically just cli commands transferred to those files
<ducasse> being good at scripting can be very helpful for a lot of things. and being able to create the tools you need always sounded good to me.
<EriC^^> hi pauljw!
<EriC^^> happy new year :)
<pauljw> hi EriC^^ , ty and same to you. :)
<EriC^^> thanks
<EriC^^> :)
<BluesKaj> hi EriC^^, pauljw ..happy new year to you guys too :-)
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj same back at ya!!
<BluesKaj> right ;-)
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj, you too!
<ducasse> Bashing-om: \o - happy new year!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Thankee ! .. I wish the same to you :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: how were your holidays?
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: happy new year! :)
<Bashing-om> Well, I put effort into keeping it "within bounds" and all did go well .. We are still here :) Oldest daughter and family up from San Antonio for the holidays made it very special .
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Not been seeing as much of ya lately. ya doing all right ?
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: yup all good :)
<Bashing-om> Still keeping the lid on Beruit !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: was quiet here too, had to spend most of nye at home because the cat freaked out when the fireworks started. luckily i was just down the street.
<Bashing-om> We too spent the turn at home - observing our religous practices .
<RSA4096> Hello
<RSA4096> 294/5000
<RSA4096> basically i have a problem the shift keys are crazy, that is when I click them out of characters, such as *, etc. I noticed that my notebook has the fans always high, although the temperatures are below 30 Â° C
<RSA4096>   clean vents, and the new thermal paste I can not explain everything
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-03
<ducasse> good morning all
<lordievader> Good morning, happy new year!
<ducasse> happy new year, lordievader - best wishes for the new one :)
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse... insomnia here
<ducasse> BluesKaj: hi, that sucks - i've had insomnia for most of my life.
<BluesKaj> I suppose it doesn't matter much ..I can sleep in later or have a nap this aft, or both :-)
<ducasse> BluesKaj: naps are good, i find as i get older :)
<BluesKaj> yup
<ducasse> after i got my new desk, my cat discovered she can sleep between the keyboard and the screen, so now i've got company most of the time i'm at my computer :)
<BluesKaj> :-)
<ducasse> now i'm looking at monitor arms for three screens, they're actually not that expensive. only problem is that two of the screens have buttons on the right-hand side.
<BluesKaj> I'm having fewer problems with 17.04 dev Kubuntu than 16,10 which has window manager/kwin crashes, due to using the newer plasma desktop
<ducasse> yes, i heard the plasma packages were bad. any other nice things in zesty?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse, same to you ;)
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader
<lordievader> Best wishes!
<BluesKaj> lordievader, Happy New Year !
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> ok here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good, bit tired but I do have a cup of coffee... the second.
<ducasse> chai here today, considering getting my third cup :)
<lordievader> ducasse: What is stopping you ;)
<BluesKaj> zesty with plasma 5.4.3 is running fine here, btw
<ducasse> BluesKaj: have you used the kde connect android-thingy?
<lordievader> I have :)
<lordievader> It is quite nice.
<ducasse> it can give you notifications etc, right?
<lordievader> Yes, both ways appearently.
<ducasse> nice. does it connect over bluetooth or usb?
<BluesKaj> ducasse, yes, it worked earlier, but now the connection is iffy, my cheap phone's OS being an early version
<lordievader> Wifi
<BluesKaj> yes
<lordievader> Your phone and the pc running KDE connect needs to be on the same network.
<lordievader> A firewall can be a pita.
<ducasse> aha. i've got to test this out, then. i've been missing proper android integration.
<ducasse> i only need this at home, so not a problem.
<lordievader> The feature of pausing the music for a phone call is quite nice.
<lordievader> Though it still confuses me at times. "Huh why did the music pause?"
<BluesKaj> kde connect works sometimes and sometimes not, it gets confused by more than one linux OS at the same IP
<BluesKaj> and my phone is just a low end alcatel one touch
<ducasse> well, it's still better than what i have now, which is basically nothing beyond mtp connectivity.
<ducasse> my phone is a cheap lg, but actually got marshmallow this fall.
<BluesKaj> kde connect worked well enough at first to transfer my pictures folder from the pc to the phone.
<lordievader> Nice thing about it is that it works network independent. If both machines are on a different wifi network (the same work wifi for example) it works just fine ;)
<BluesKaj> different IPS yes, then it's fine but dual booting from one pc with different hostnames, but the same IP makes for unpredictable connectivity...my laptop  connects ok
<BluesKaj> no dual booting on the laptop
<ducasse> none of my machines dual boot, alternative installs are either in containers or virtual machines.
<ducasse> but thanks for the info, guys, i'll install it and take a look. :)
<BluesKaj> ducasse, in your case it should work ok
<BluesKaj> well, gonna get some more sleep...bbl
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-04
<Bashing-om> R&R time guys , laters
<ducasse> morning all
<BluesKaj> 'Morning
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj, insomnia again? :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, I seem to wake up every 3 hrs
<ducasse> annoying. only suggestion i have is to try melatonin, it worked for me.
<BluesKaj> well, my sciatica is acting up too
<ducasse> no wonder you can't sleep :(
<ducasse> snowing here today, and really windy up here on the hill. unfortuately, i _have_ to go out today, not looking forward to it.
<BluesKaj> we;re going to get an arctic cold front by this evening , -20C
<ducasse> sounds horrible. stay inside :)
<BluesKaj> we plan to
<BluesKaj> think I'm ready for more sleep...later
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> awake again, BluesKaj? :)
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, yeah , slept another 4 hrs for a total of 7 , so i'm good :-)
<BluesKaj> 'Having morning coffee atm
<ducasse> that's not bad :) i'm still sitting here, drinking tea and helping out when i can in #u. my cat is wandering around the keyboard insisting on attention, though, so it's hard to focus :)
<ducasse> btw BluesKaj, configured a microsd card and a usb stick with xbian, going to try if it works later today. thanks a lot for the guides!
<BluesKaj> ducasse, right, hope it works for you
<BluesKaj> I used Raspbian with the new Pixel desktop ...it's quite nice
<ducasse> i've heard a lot of people say that about pixel. it's based on lxde or lxqt, right?
<BluesKaj> lsdr
<BluesKaj> lxde rather
<BluesKaj> phat phingers
<BluesKaj> I tyried the the trinity desktop on it , but ran into permission problems so I reinstalled raspbian pixel
<ducasse> hehe... i've got a fat wrist, typing with wrist support is not as easy as i'd like. leads to heavy use of backspace.
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i was thinking of getting an rpi3 with pixel for my nephew, is it enough for basic browsing stuff? i'd think the most important thing for him would be youtube.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, the rpi3 is quite capable of good video performance as along as the gpu memory share setting is high enough. I've been using 192 in kodi and it works quite well, not sure about you tube Hi Def tho..I can check it out
<ducasse> BluesKaj: hi def would not be important in his case, i doubt the stuff he watches is available in it anyway.
<ducasse> BluesKaj: i see the memory split is set to 256 by default on the xbian image, that would probably be a bit high if you intend to use it as a desktop.
<ducasse> (but then i wouldn't use xbian) :)
<BluesKaj> youtube hi dewfy
<BluesKaj> ducasse I checked out the youtube channel in 1080i video and it seemed ok , at raspian configuration/performance at 192, which edges close to max power requirement from the PSU indicator
<ducasse> BluesKaj: that's not bad, thanks. i doubt he'll need that, though, he's mostly watching game and music videos.
<BluesKaj> right
<BluesKaj> works even better with 720p on kodi
<ducasse> i mostly use 720p videos myself, although i can't remember any problems with 1080p. as long as they're not hevc.
<BluesKaj> have you tried the strukturag/libde265 ppa? I'm not going to bother until I encounter a hevc video, which i haven't so far
<ducasse> no, i haven't. i still don't really need it, and in the longer term i'm planning on getting another device anyway. it would be nice with something that has a proper remote etc.
<BluesKaj> I use a wireless KB and mouse and it sort of acts as a remote using kodi
<ducasse> i use an android phone with the official 'kore' remote. works well, but at times i'd rather have a regular infrared remote with physical buttons.
<BluesKaj> I have an android phone as well, and one of my friends uses his phone as a remote too, but I haven't bothered trying the app
<ducasse> it's actually rather nice, they've baked in a lot of functionality.
<ducasse> i actually can't think of anything you can't easily do from the app. i mostly just use the basics, though, so there might be more advanced stuff i've missed.
<ducasse> but for managing the library, controlling playback, selecting subtitles/audio tracks etc it works well.
<BluesKaj> all of the actions described on their website seem to be similar to navigating kodi with the mouse and KB here since kodi is displayed on my tv
<ducasse> yes, but it's more comfortable imo. i guess that depends on your keyboard and mouse, but a phone takes up little room and is mostly there anyway.
<ducasse> if you're going to be editing/adding a lot of text, i'd prefer a keyboard, though :)
<WildPenguin> hello...
<ducasse> WildPenguin: \o
<WildPenguin> hi..
<WildPenguin> just curious about various things in Linux, particularly in Ubuntu.
<ducasse> feel free to ask :)
<WildPenguin> which stage of  Debian can Ubuntu be compared to? Stable, Testing or unstable?
<nicomachus> !debian
<ubot5`> Ubuntu and Debian are closely related. Ubuntu builds on the foundations of Debian architecture and infrastructure, with a different community and release process. See https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/ubuntu-and-debian - !Repositories meant for Debian should NOT be used on Ubuntu!
<nicomachus> that link may be helpful, WildPenguin
<WildPenguin> ok. thanks a lot
<nacc> WildPenguin: generally, ubuntu is based off unstable at the time of the release (well, just before it, around feature freeze time)
<WildPenguin> there are some Ubuntu/Lubuntu derivatives like LXLE which are also adhere to their theme. For example lxle is built for old computers. How reliable are they?
<WildPenguin> in terms of security and stability.
<nacc> WildPenguin: you'd presumably need to ask them
<ducasse> dunno, i only use ubuntu, debian and arch.
<WildPenguin> ok.
<WildPenguin> ducasse, you have used three distros. which one do you think is really beginner friendly?
<ducasse> WildPenguin: of those three, cleary ubuntu. i have used a lot of other distros over the years, those three are just the ones i prefer now.
<ducasse> *clearly
<WildPenguin> ok. I'll stick with Ubuntu, then.
<ducasse> WildPenguin: one very important thing is that ubuntu has a great community for support, and if you google for something, there are probably more answers for ubuntu than most other distros - at least that's the impression i get.
<WildPenguin> that's a very important factor.
<ducasse> the ubuntu community in general tend to be helpful and not looking down on beginners. if you have problems, someone in #ubuntu is almost always there to help.
<WildPenguin> yes. that's true.
<ducasse> i'd also advice you to learn how to get the most out of search engines, there are _tons_ of material out there. very often you will find a direct answer to your question.
<WildPenguin> ok
<WildPenguin> can I run the SAP ERP package on Ubuntu or on any of its derivatives?
<ducasse> seems so, although not supported. i'd advice asking in #ubuntu-server
<WildPenguin> I just need to be able to run that on Ubuntu.
<ducasse> i've never worked with sap, so i have zero experience with it. try #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server, someone there should know.
<WildPenguin> ok.
<WildPenguin> ducasse, thanks a lot.
<ducasse> WildPenguin: np, any time.
<WildPenguin> was going through the link you provided. thanks.
 * nacc ponders if "< unimouse> nacc suck me idiot" is reason to invoke ops...
<daftykins> looks justified to me.
<daftykins> maybe less via the trigger and more via a channel join, but you know how useful they are at the best of times...
<nacc> yeah
<ducasse> just give people a hint in #ubuntu-offtopic, tends to work.
<ducasse> happpy new year, both of you!
<daftykins> \o
<nacc> ducasse: ah good point, thanks!
<daftykins> and to you sir
<nacc> ducasse: same to you!
<daftykins> meh offtopic is a cess pool :P
<nacc> heh
<ducasse> yes, but full of people with +b superpowers :)
<ducasse> how was the holidays, daftykins?
<daftykins> well i just discovered a water leak in my house, so it's back to work with a bump ;)
<daftykins> how was yours?
<ducasse> mine was fine, quiet. visited my mother + sister and kids christmas eve, that was about it.
<ducasse> water leaks are no fun :(
<ducasse> i'm playing with calibre, trying to get some books i've bought recently nicely organized etc. still need a good reading device, researching.
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> yeah i had quiet ones at my parents with my one remaining grandparent too, she's 95 now and totally gone mentally sadly
<daftykins> makes for the repetitive conversations :P
<ducasse> sad, but little that can be done :(
<daftykins> such is the way, mmm
<ducasse> daftykins: news - bought a third monitor. ahh, the luxury! :)
<daftykins> D:
<ducasse> any plans for the new year?
<daftykins> work as much as i can and spend a lot on fixing up the house i think!
<ducasse> have fun with that ;)
<ducasse> btw, nearly quit smoking - down to 3, 4 per day...
<ducasse> there's hope i'll finally get down to zero on of these days.
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> what was your usual rate?
<ducasse> you'll never get that out of me!
<ducasse> (but more than one pack per day)
<ducasse> (much more)
<daftykins> i don't even know how many is in one
<ducasse> 20
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> what are your thoughts on the electronic gadgets?
<ducasse> which gadgets in particular?
<ducasse> oh, those.
<BluesKaj> I was smoking 2 packs per week , then I finally quit for good almost 2 yrs to the day ... some of my bandmates still smoke
<BluesKaj> and I had quit for 10 yrs up until 2011. and I succumbed , but not all the way
<daftykins> :o
<BluesKaj> smoking is tough to quit, that's a fact
<ducasse> still going to do it, i'm pretty determined.
<BluesKaj> good!
<ducasse> i think step 1 is _stop mentioning smoking!_ :) it immediately makes me want one. the big hurdle is probably to think of something else.
<daftykins> i like cake
<daftykins> but i won't give that up! ;)
<BluesKaj> the craving usually lasts less than a minute IME , now when I see somebody light up it last for only a few secs
<BluesKaj> for a minute when you're trying to quit
<ducasse> hehe - this is what my cat does when she wants attention/treats - http://imgur.com/a/BVzMM
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ooh the das keyboard makes an appearance
<ducasse> yup :) /me loves it.
<BluesKaj> take care folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-05
<ducasse> good morning all
<lordievader> Good morning.
 * ducasse hands lordievader a cup of coffee
<lordievader> Thanks :)
<ducasse> ready for a new day? :)
<lordievader> Mwoah
<lordievader> Prefer to have stayed in bed.
<ducasse> it's nearly -20Â°C here, so so do i :(
<BluesKaj> Hi alll
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - all went well with xbian on usb stick :)
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, well done :-)
<ducasse> not sure if it's much faster, but hopefully less chance of corruption
<BluesKaj> right, I noticed browsing was somewhat quicker on usb than sdcard
<ducasse> some things seem a little faster, but things like large apt operations still take a lot of time
<ducasse> i'm going to make frequent image backups this time, though :)
<ducasse> silly me. for a moment there i thought cups had decided to become friendly, but turns out it's still completely feral.
<daftykins> ducasse: haha my mum sent someone from facebook my way for soldering, i just reattached the battery leads in a guys LED torch - too easy!
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-06
<ducasse> morning all!
<EriC^^> morning ducasse :)
<ducasse> hiya EriC^^ - happy new year :) how are things?
<EriC^^> thanks you too :)
<EriC^^> good yourself?
<EriC^^> today's actually my birthday, haha
<ducasse> aah, congrats! mine's the 23rd :)
<EriC^^> thanks
<EriC^^> cool, how old will you be then?
<ducasse> 43
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> i'm 31 today
<ducasse> wish i still was :)
<EriC^^> quit that smoking and you'll get an extra 10 years of life ;)
<ducasse> i'm down to 3-4/day, so i'm getting there :)
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> :)
<ducasse> any plans for your birthday?
<EriC^^> not much
<ducasse> go out and eat - have some fun :)
<EriC^^> yeah :)
<ducasse> i don't usually do much for mine either, maybe my sister brings the kids and we go have a pizza. more for them than for me :)
<EriC^^> hehe yeah same here
<EriC^^> the family usually gets a cake and i cut it
<ducasse> we're old enough we have to buy our own presents ;) i bought a third screen a week ago :)
<EriC^^> nice! :)
<ducasse> i3 is amazing at handling multiple screens. i've never seen anything do it better.
<EriC^^> cool i want to give a try some day
<EriC^^> i think i downloaded it but forgot to launch it once, yup
<EriC^^> i'll try it out in a few! brb making some coffee :)
<ducasse> almost every de/wm will switch workspace on every omnitor if you switch on one, due to a moronic freedesktop.org standard. i3 switches them individually, and can also move a workspace to another screen.
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj - how are you today?
<BluesKaj> doing ok ducasse, how are you?
<ducasse> good, thanks. snowing outside, pretty cold as well so staying inside.
<BluesKaj> yeah, it's clear but -17 here
<BluesKaj> for our American friends , that's 0F :-0
<ducasse> about the same here
<BluesKaj> my 16.10 Yakkety installation is shakey so I'm running the Zesty 17.04 atm, but as i mentioned before the plasma desktop is to blame and testing on an official release one would thinh the devs would be more cautious about uploading to the ppa repos
<BluesKaj>  thinh=think
<ducasse> i'm sort of considering upgrading my desktop to zesty, but then again the arch install i made on it is becoming comfy enough that i just might switch to that. i don't want to upgrade my laptop, because a fully working machine is a nice thing to have :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, arch is nice, just too much work to install
<ducasse> it's even less automated than i remember slackware being back when i started when linux :)
<ducasse> i set it up from an existing (ubuntu) install, which is a lot more comfy than booting the installer imo
<BluesKaj> I ran the the installer and followed the commands/procedure copied from the arch wiki. It worked fine, but I thought it was somehow too geeky and excusive in the sense that if you can't do these commands you don't deserve our 'wonderful OS' .. the result was to me was anticlimactic ..arch is nice but nothing special compared to other OSs that are easier to install
<BluesKaj> and their support chat is full anti social kids with attitude ...or so it seems .. that was my experience
<ducasse> i can imaginge their support is bad, arch has become very popular with a really unattractive crowd, imo
<ducasse> haven't tried it myself, though, i'd rather ask in ##linux, i think
<lordievader> Their wiki is quite good though.
<BluesKaj> yes it's well wrtten and comprehensive
<ducasse> yep, it's excellent.
<lordievader> It is quite nice to see that the Gentoo and Arch wiki often refer to eachother.
<BluesKaj> I have considered installing it again due to it's early adoption of new apps and kernels
<lordievader> Why write something again if the other party has a decent article on the topic.
<ducasse> the arch wiki is probably my favorite online linux resource, it's usually the first place i look for something
<ducasse> the ubuntu wiki unfortunately has a lot of stale articles
<BluesKaj> well, i had to reinstall windows7 on my laptop yesterday. Revenue Canada requires Windows or Mac for their online apps to file our income taxes...tried windows in a VM last yr and the app kept disconnecting from the internet
<nicomach1s> Blame Caaaaaanadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<nicomach1s> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA
<BluesKaj> south park ,heh, mindless garbage ..we putr the blame where it really belongs ...Russia  !
<BluesKaj> .0.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: \o
<Bashing-om> I be here, better that you are still here , To cold there to sleep ?
<ducasse> glad you're here, after this particular idjit i've lost any interest in following #ubuntu any more tonight...
<ducasse> i should get to bed soon anyway, nearly ten at night :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah, do not fathom why too my fuse this day is so short .
<Bashing-om> ducasse: ^ Boy was that some conflugated English !
<ducasse> this guy was insisting on installing a udeb on his running system and wondering why it wasn't in the repos. when told to read the page, he said "says not to install it ... but am 1st world anarchist"
<ducasse> hehe :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: how is your machine these days? still stable?
<Bashing-om> Seen ^ . I too lost interest in his situation at that point , OP not focused, I am not going to waste resources :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well, stable so long as I do not have my primary hard drive connected. Have only had on freeze incident . Kinda makes me want to install that drive in a different box, see how it behaves , Disk contoller acting up ?
<Bashing-om> on/one** 'e' key sticks ! .. need to clean this keyboard !
<ducasse> could be. in one of my old machines the controllers gave me so many problems i bought a couple of pcie controllers and disabled the onboard ones.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Life's little 1st world problems ... gives me something to occupy the mind . Now that I am "trying" to make a desktop install of xubuntu 16.04 on the SSD as my primary .
<ducasse> ssd all the things! :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: On this old hardware, I upgraded a 12.04 desktop ubuntu install to 17.04 . Compared to X on the SSD come kind of slow !
<ducasse> i was thinking of getting an m.2 ssd for my desktop, but decided a regular sata ssd would be good enough for my use.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: :) can only go as fast as the interface will let it .
<ducasse> m.2 on my system is 'limited' to 10gbps, on skylake it's 32 iirc.
<ducasse> i could have used a pcie nvme device, though.
<ducasse> but now it's time for me to disconnect from tmux, ttyl Bashing-om!
<Bashing-om> ducasse: K; see ya on the flip side :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-07
<Bashing-om> All the fun I can stand for one session , G nite
<ducasse> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey there ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - happy new year to you! :)
<lotuspsychje> all the best wishes for you too ducasse xx
<ducasse> how were your holidays?
<lotuspsychje> great,busy and moving to the new house also
<ducasse> do you like it there so far?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: how were yours?
<lotuspsychje> yes very, its bigger house now alot of space to walk in
<ducasse> fine, thanks - quiet. visited family and relaxed a lot :)
<lotuspsychje> great
<ducasse> plans for the new year?
<lotuspsychje> build my business room in the house
<ducasse> :)
<lotuspsychje> breakfast times, laterz ducasse :p
<ducasse> ttyl
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> i'm continually amazed at the amount of people who think ubottu is a real person :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: ^ Lot of new people :) that is a good thing .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: in some ways, yes :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: One in a hundred make a contribution to the effort :) Separate the wheat from the chaff ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: :) you logged off literally 13 minutes before i connected to tmux this morning :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Left a bit earlier last // My eyes are not ajusting well to the newer irssi and Firefox colors ==> head ache :(
<Bashing-om> I am trying to give FF another chamce, but I still miss chrome .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i've been messing with terminal color schemes and themes for my most used applications, trying to make things more relaxing for the eyes.
<ducasse> i use both ff and chromium.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah .. http://how-to.wikia.com/wiki/How_to_configure_xterm . Have yet to find a means to change a browser background color that I am comfortable with - as the website controls that .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: can't you use an addon like stylish?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: hehe, i just gave a guy in #ubuntu that exact link about an hour ago :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: perhaps . I sorta real slow about adding add-ons :)
<ducasse> it just inject css in web pages, aiui, so you can manipulate things like that
<ducasse> *injects
<ducasse> Bashing-om: haven't used it myself, just keep hearing about it.
<Bashing-om> The more I mss about with xterm, the more I am impressed. These people have done the homework . Thanks for the hint about stylish . I look into it .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i prefer urxvt over xterm in many ways, it's what i use now. roxterm was nice but is no longer maintained since gtk 3.20 broke it.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: urxvt can have perl plugins etc, it's a deep rabbit-hole to get into :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: For now xterm more than meets my simple needs. As a matter of fact I am not even "glomming" over all the enhancewmnt as offered in xubuntu 16.04 . And yeah I may yet return to my 14.04 minimal install as my system of choice . But ! Got to learn systemd sometime !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i still generally like systemd, it's nice in many ways. ymmv, though.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I figure systemd is here to stay . As much as I dislike change . Gonna make the adjustment :) There are many things about systemd that I truely like and appreciate .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: other than that, is there something you dislike about 16.04 as you are considering switching back to 14.04?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Nope, so long as I can function on 16.04 .. all speed ahead ! ( 17.04 also available to investigate what will be ) . Just the learning curve of the differences in the apps I use - ( going back to learning the GUI way ) .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: almost all the programs i use are cli/tui, except the browser. trying out cvim with chromium now to get keyboard control there as well :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Browser was elinks for a while . google-chrome has spoiled me to the GUI . I will say easier !
<ducasse> Bashing-om: there are so many websites that demand a gui browser, unfortunately. the whole "write clean html that can be parsed by almost anything" is completely forgotten now.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Yepper . GUI web browsers are much easier to use now-a-days . No going back .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i guess the reason they call it 'web 2.0' is because they broke the first one ;)
<Bashing-om> Well, can not keep up, can not take notes. what is a CLI browser to do ?
<ducasse> i need something hot to drink, think i'll go make some chai. good stuff :)
<Bashing-om> We been doing hot chocolate here of late . Wife is swearing off .. says it is bad for her diet :(
<ducasse> my cat has an incredible talent for getting what she wants. if she's begging for treats and i ignore here, she starts climbing all over me until i cave :)
<Bashing-om> Cats wil be cats . Same same here . 2 in the house and 4 outside . No peace till we give what they demand ( else they will live elsewhere !) .
<Bashing-om> Took a year for Ebony to convince us that she wanted to be a domesticated house cat .
<ducasse> cats <3 as i live alone a cat is great for company. she's very social, and demands a lot of attention :)
<ducasse> heading to bed soon, ttyl Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Have a good rest ducasse
<ducasse> Bashing-om: you enjoy the rest of your day :)
<Bashing-om> Time for a nap . laters guys .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-08
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ObrienDave> waves from denver
<lotuspsychje> hello ObrienDave
<lotuspsychje> greetings from belgium :p
<ObrienDave> cold out there? freezing here
<lotuspsychje> yeah its winter, but around 0
<lotuspsychje> howdy Bashing-om :p
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Great ya raised up . Hoz all going ?
<ObrienDave> only 0? beach weather LOL
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: great, we moved to the new house, thats why it took bit longer
<Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 14 F (-10 C) ~ Clear ~ Humidity: 92% ~ Observed: Sat 07, 22:56
<lotuspsychje> wow
 * lotuspsychje doesnt like winter colds
<ObrienDave> grrr, forget how to do weather
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: You about settled in .. all the decorating completed ?
<Bashing-om> ObrienDave: I cheat with a script .:)
<ObrienDave> ah, there's a IRC command, i think, or it's a bot script
<ObrienDave> old and senile, can't remember sh*t ;P
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: yeah decorating and rebuilding things atm
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: 5 uear prohct on the new home ?
<Bashing-om> project*
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: no, most of the work is rebuilt by the old owner, lets say 1 year project
<lotuspsychje> good for us :p
<lotuspsychje> ObrienDave: there's an info script in hexchat, not sure about weather
<lotuspsychje>  HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.4.0-57-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "xenial" 16.04 ** CPU: 2 x AMD C-60 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (AuthenticAMD) @ 800MHz ** RAM: Physical: 3,6GiB, 63,4% free ** Disk: Total: 113,9GiB, 84,2% free ** VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6290] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic1: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB ** Ethernet: Qualcomm
<lotuspsychje> Atheros AR8152 v2.0 Fast Ethernet ** Uptime: 18m 10s **
<Bashing-om> ObrienDave: Krytarik's script : http://paste.openstack.org/show/jx13xKIktXbukOG7NckP/ . unit193 also has one ( #ubuntuforums).
<ObrienDave> cool, thanks :)
<Bashing-om> ObrienDave: I am presently using an adaptation of unit193's script . But I do not have a link currently .
<ObrienDave> k. i had a bot on #ubuntu-os
<ObrienDave> sorry, #android-os
<Bashing-om> Location: Heber Springs, AR ~ Temp: 12Â°F (-11Â°C) ~ Cond: Clear ~ Humid: 95% ~ Wind: 0 mph (0 km/h) ~ Time: 23:56
<ObrienDave> 95% humidity, no thank you ;P
<Bashing-om> ObrienDave: Krytarik's script result .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !info flashplugin-installer
<ubot5`> flashplugin-installer (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 24.0.0.186ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 6 kB, installed size 58 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<Bashing-om> Eyes are crossing, can do no more . g nite .
<ObrienDave> g nite
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-budgie-17-04-daily-builds-now-available-to-download-screenshot-tour-511572.shtml
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - good morning!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> morning mate
<ducasse> plans for the day?
<lotuspsychje> bugie comming closer :p
<lotuspsychje> yep, going out for breakfast & shopping
<ducasse> i'm going to do absolutely nothing, just take it easy :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> sunday chillin is the best
<ducasse> oh, cat wants breakfast :)
<lotuspsychje> ttyl mate :p
<lotuspsychje> have a nice silent sunday
<ducasse> you too :) enjoy breakfast and shopping :)
<EriC^^> hey ducasse :)
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<ducasse> hi EriC^^ - fine, thanks - you?
<EriC^^> good thanks
<ducasse> did you deal with HexaChop before?
<EriC^^> nope
<EriC^^> what's his issue?
<ducasse> just wondering if he's trolling or just weapons-grade stupid.
<EriC^^> oh
<ducasse> it should not be necessary to ask the same thing ten times to get an answer :)
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> and he left
<ducasse> i'm actually not that sad about that
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<EriC^^> this guy is pretty amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_oa8m5Oq00
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - everything well?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse yes, all is fine here, having morning coffee, How about you?
<ducasse> everything is quiet. i'm messing with i3blocks, trying to find out why certain unicode glyphs from a certain font are rendered while others are not. tbh i don't have a clue :)
<BluesKaj> fonts can be tricky ...something i don't muck about with much, i just choose fonts that are the most readable and pleasing to my eyes
<BluesKaj> think most users do the same
<ducasse> the font in question is an icon font - font awesome - i'm using it to get icons on my status line
<ducasse> \o Bashing-om - ready for another day?
<daftykins> >:D
<ducasse> \o daftykins
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well, yes and no .. I am here .. but motivation seems low at this time :) Maybe take a nap and awake with a brighter outlook .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: #ubuntu seems to be at a low point now, might be wise to give it a couple of hours.
<Bashing-om> Oh, I keep wandering in and out . Never know when my interest will get sparked .
<dax> ducasse: they're banned from #ubuntu-offtopic, lol
<ducasse> lol
<ducasse> i wish he was banned everywhere else as well, tbh
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-01
<BluesKaj> Happy New Year!
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw, Happy New Year !  :-)
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj, ty, Happy New Year! :)
<BluesKaj> we had a jam for a couple hrs last night, but I made it home in time for wife and I to "jump" into the New Year. Old scandinavian tradition, stand on the sofa holding hands with some coins in the other and jump off at the stroke of midnight.
<BluesKaj> sounds superstitious but it's fun  :-_)
<pauljw> that's great BluesKaj :D
<BluesKaj> assume you had a nice New Year's Eve too, pauljw
<pauljw> yeah, nothing special, been a long time since we've even stayed up to watch the ball drop. :)
<BluesKaj> right, a neighbour even provided a fireworks display for about 30 secs
<pauljw> nice
<pauljw> it was very quiet around here, too cold for anyone to be out.
<BluesKaj> t was cold here too,  we just watched it thru the front window
<pauljw> :D
<pauljw> wb EriC^^ :)
<BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^  Happy New Year! :)
<EriC^^> thanks pauljw :)
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: thanks! you too! :)
 * BluesKaj wonders whether this old pc will last another yr, it's now almost 10yrs old...still purring nicely tho.
<pauljw> that's a good run on that pc BluesKaj :)
<pauljw> my laptop just turned 4 and i thought that was good.
<BluesKaj> pauljw, think laptops suffer from more handling etc than pcs do so they don't last as long, but my lenovo is almost 4 yrs old and doing ok except for some graphics red colour artifacts caused by the video wire connetion to the screen (I think).
<pauljw> BluesKaj, true, but my laptop pretty much just sits on my desk and is almost always running. :)  had to replace the keyboard about a month ago, but so far, everything else is just humming along.
 * BluesKaj nods, good stuff :-)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> the rpi3 is a temporary backup in case this old pc bites the dust
<pauljw> i just ordered a rpi3, going to try implement kodi for home entertainment with it.  bought a 4T usb hard drive and wireless keyboard and mouse.  should be a fun winter project... :)
<BluesKaj> cool, it's surprising how well they work considering their specs
<BluesKaj> and the wifi works right out of the  box....that surprised me
<pauljw> can't wait to get started playing around with it.
<BluesKaj> yeah, they're fun and there are tutorias on the net for all kinds of uses for them besides entertainment/media
<pauljw> what os are you running on yours?
<BluesKaj> raspbian , based on debian
<pauljw> okay, comes with that, was just wondering if maybe you installed *buntu in it's place. :)
<BluesKaj> pauljw, I tried a couple of 'buntu flavours like mate and xubuntu ...ubuntu itself is too resource heavy for the rpi
<pauljw> yeah, i would have thought maybe xubuntu or lubuntu might work, but i imagine that raspbian would be rather customized for it and more efficient.
<BluesKaj> mate and xubuntu worked well , but I didn't like the default graphics theme , there weren't any other choices at the time
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> raspbian is a nice compromise , and as you say it's tweaked for the rpi3
<BluesKaj> there are some tricks as well that can save wear and tear on the microsd card , like moving the / (root ) partition to your usb drive or even a usb connected drive. Then the only job the sdcard has to is boot the system
<pauljw> i was hoping i could do that.
<BluesKaj> my first microsd card only3 mos til  I found tut that helped me do the above ...here http://magnatecha.com/using-a-usb-drive-as-os-root-on-a-raspberry-pi/
<BluesKaj> lasted 3 mos
<pauljw> :) thanks, will study that one.
<BluesKaj> this is simplest and most effective tutorial I've found for moving /
<BluesKaj> brb, gonna join in the rpi
<pauljw> wb
<BluesKaj_> thanks pauljw , on konverstion irc client on the rpi3 . It's my only ikde ndulgence on this OS :-)
<BluesKaj_> bbiab.....
<pauljw> that's cool BluesKaj_
<BluesKaj_> not a hexchat fan..find it clunky and unorganized
<pauljw> heheh, guess it's just what we get used to.
<BluesKaj_> I suppose
<pauljw> i used konversation for a couple of years when i was using pclinuxos.  had no problems using it.  then i bought a dell laptop when they started pre-loading ubuntu and started using xchat with no problems and have just stuck with it, now hexchat.
<pauljw> i installed and tried weechat a couple of weeks ago, but that one is just too primitive for me.  :)
<BluesKaj_> yeah, some purists insist on living on subisitence level on linux/unix
<pauljw> ;)
<BluesKaj_> irsssi and weechat are fine for emergency support when one needs to use the vt/tty to communicate
<pauljw> agreed
<pauljw> brb, wife needs help in kitchen...
<pauljw> back
<BluesKaj_> using chromium browser, it's a bit slow to load, but it works great
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> bbl
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: ID theft .. I start with my bank, see what they can do to help and advise .
<EriC^^> well the money is gone, it's not really an bank card, i had a 'virtual debit card' that i loaded money onto to buy some stuff online
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: well, the bank card has to be financed somewhere . ( discover re-imbursted us in a similar situation 0nce ) .
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> i think i wont see the money, especially that i lost a lot of it just trying to beat them to spending it
<EriC^^> i ordered a bunch of extreme size pizza's and chicken wings for days
<EriC^^> and a bunch of other stuff i had shipped home
<EriC^^> i really want to site the site closed though, it's unreasonable to get in the top 10 results on google and it's a phishing site, wth
<EriC^^> *to see
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Ouch ! .. We were quick to report and freeze the account while Discover investigated .
<EriC^^> they just started buying stuff, i could see it in the account cause it's a virtual card, i was literally at arms race to buy more before they zero'd it out, the card support said theyd contact me in 2 days when i tried to report it at first xD
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-02
<lordievader> Good morning
<daftykins> \o
<lordievader> Hey daftykins
<lordievader> Happy new year
<ducasse> morning all
<ducasse> happy new year lordievader
<daftykins> happy new year to you :)
<daftykins> hey ducasse :> good sleep?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> Happy new year to you too, ducasse
<ducasse> daftykins: just an hour or two, damn insomnia...
<daftykins> :(
<jink> Gelukkig nieuwjaar, stelletje prutsers. ^__^
<daftykins> that's one weird lingo
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> good morning BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw ...up early :-)
<BluesKaj> milder here, but windy
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> colder here, -2F at the moment.  not much wind though.
<BluesKaj>  check this out  https://www.facebook.com/robert.thiessen.58/videos/10155142709887517/
<pauljw> heheh... very good!
<pauljw> good news here: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2018/01/private-internet-access-creator-london-trust-media-acquires-linux-journal/
<BluesKaj> ok, i can tell just by the URL that it looks like good news already :-)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> very cool, glad to see this happen:-0
<BluesKaj> err :-)
<pauljw> me too
<BluesKaj> shared the news in the main chat
<pauljw> that's cool
<FeelLicks934> âââââââââââââââââ the weechat fundraising is still going on https://twitter.com/WeeChatClient .. REMEMBER ITS NOT US *WINK*lohwrsggl: pauljw padraic dragan-s âââââââââââââââââ
<FeelLicks934> âââââââââââââââ the weechat fundraising is still going on https://twitter.com/WeeChatClient .. REMEMBER ITS NOT US *WINK*sqhmnygr: EriC^^ jalc padraic âââââââââââââââ
<FeelLicks934> ââââââââââââââââââ the weechat fundraising is still going on https://twitter.com/WeeChatClient .. REMEMBER ITS NOT US *WINK*anzkya: dragan-s EriC^^ padraic ââââââââââââââââ
<FeelLicks934> ââââââââââââââââââ the weechat fundraising is still going on https://twitter.com/WeeChatClient .. REMEMBER ITS NOT US *WINK*mxdpem: BluesKaj pauljw BobbyJr ââââââââââââââââ
<FeelLicks934> ââââââââââââââ the weechat fundraising is still going on https://twitter.com/WeeChatClient .. REMEMBER ITS NOT US *WINK*fkunihtpex: BobbyJr pauljw EriC^^ âââââââââââââââ
<FeelLicks934> ââââââââââââââââââ the weechat fundraising is still going on https://twitter.com/WeeChatClient .. REMEMBER ITS NOT US *WINK*qleprcvrb: jalc pauljw BluesKaj ââââââââââââââ
<FeelLicks934> âââââââââââââ the weechat fundraising is still going on https://twitter.com/WeeChatClient .. REMEMBER ITS NOT US *WINK*kqyuinfvcq: dragan-s BluesKaj EriC^^ ââââââââââââââââ
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> 1349 users nice
<BluesKaj> yeah, more new users needing help are able to join
<lotuspsychje> yay
<lotuspsychje> and a good 2018 to you all
<leftyfb> is it "universally accepted" to always be suggesting people install non-LTS over LTS? :)
<BluesKaj> same to you lotuspsychje :-)
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: i always ask whats the users end goal?
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: latest/testing vs stable/long time
<nacc> leftyfb: not universally accepted, no
<BluesKaj> leftyfb, never heard that one, depends on their situation
<nacc> i would even say, for the purposes of #ubuntu, the opposite is the universal (or more universal) default stance
<leftyfb> ok, good. That's what I thought
<nacc> with the obvious caveat that there is nothing stopping anyone from running non-LTS, they just need to know the implications (actually do release upgrades or reinstalls regularly)
<hggdh> leftyfb: my take is: if you are willing to upgrade every half-year, then yes, go non-lts. If you are a casual user, OTOH, stay with LTS
<nacc> hggdh: +1
<hggdh> leftyfb: and yes, I followe the discussion on #u.
<hggdh> s/followe/&d/
<leftyfb> I was mainly only validating what I already knew to be true
<hggdh> yep, understood
<lotuspsychje> some users with newer hardware would only be able to run non-lts in same cases
<lotuspsychje> *some
<lotuspsychje> so its good we have both options no?
<nacc> well, that's what hwe is for
<nacc> there will be a window of a few months where that might be true, you're right, lotuspsychje
<hggdh> (I have actually been on the devel release since 2006; but (1) I have a pretty good idea of the risks and (2) it was part of my work requirements or a while -- eat your dog food, and all)
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: yes, there are always reasons to go non-lts. But users should be aware that they will need to upgrade to +1 every half year. This is the warning I find missing when suggesting non-lts
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: you testing bionic also?
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: been running it pretty much since it opened
<hggdh> so far, no critical issues
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: nice one
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: im testing bionic on 3 machines myself
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: perhaps an idea to add non-lts to !artful codenames?
<lotuspsychje> !xenial
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.04 LTS (Xenial Xerus) is the current LTS release of Ubuntu. Download at http://www.ubuntu.com/download - Read the release notes at https://ubottu.com/y/xenial
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: I am restricted to my work laptop, others are production
<lotuspsychje> 2 days till alpha1 :p
<BluesKaj> we've got a live one over at ##linux, doesn't which linux OS he's running :-)
<BluesKaj> doesn't know
<leftyfb> cat /etc/issue? lsb_release?
<BluesKaj> seems to be mint
<lotuspsychje> brrr
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: !bionic is there
<hggdh> leftyfb: just one last thing: opinions vary. So some will say go current release, others will not. I am not sure on how to address this
<leftyfb> I understand this
<leftyfb> And I definitely preface all my suggestions with I recommend or suggest or in my opnion
<hggdh> leftyfb: yes, sounds *very* sensible. I try to do the same
<BluesKaj> some users are so absolute ... it's fun to debate them sometimes
<BluesKaj> with them opinions are facts
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lotuspsychje> JanC: alive?
<nicomachus> frozen solid
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> trying to get my eid alive, but that belgian stuff
<lotuspsychje> wb BluesKaj
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje :)
<BluesKaj> thanks lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> nice, PIA now has 3 servers in Canada
<pauljw> nice, mine all seem so slow lately.
<BluesKaj> probly be adding more once the net neutrality becomes more and more disabled in the US
<BluesKaj> pauljw, I like the NYC and Florida servers, they seems to be the fastest from here
<pauljw> haven't tried florida, nyc does well sometimes.
<BluesKaj> Toronto and Montreal are fast as well due to my proximity to those
<pauljw> even the one i built on digitalocean is slow lately.
<pauljw> i'm here without any right now.
<pauljw> brb, let me try florida...
<lotuspsychje> hi Nokaji
<Nokaji> Greetings lotuspsychje of the third rock
<BluesKaj> Hi Nokaji
<pauljw> BluesKaj, florida is doing fine.  thx.
<Nokaji> Hiyas BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> pauljw, good to hear...it's great for torrent DLs
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<BluesKaj> lordievader, does ubuntu have a "driver manager" app in it's system settings or .... ?
<alkisg> BluesKaj: ubuntu-drivers in console, software-properties-gtk in gui
<BluesKaj> alkisg, ok thanks ...belated :-)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-03
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<pauljw> lotuspsychje :)
<daftykins> happy new year sir \o
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw & daftykins
<lotuspsychje> happy new year 2018 to you guys :p
<lotuspsychje> best of luck & a great health
<pauljw> same to you guys
<lotuspsychje> and more ubuntu lol
<pauljw> always...
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> oO
 * lotuspsychje doesnt like ping timeout
<lotuspsychje> hi FruitView
<lotuspsychje> !keyring
<lotuspsychje> !seahorse
<lotuspsychje> dax: we have a trigger about that?
<dax> not that i know of
<lotuspsychje> lemme see if theres a wiki
<lotuspsychje> cant find an ubuntu one dax
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeKeyring
<dax> really don't need a factoid for everything, especially if it's just gonna be a link to whatever's in Google
<dax> I'm really averse to the tendency (and I'm not saying this is one you have, I'm generally commenting) of relying heavily on ubottu's general factoids in lieu of hand-written targeted answers
<lotuspsychje> allright no sweat
<lotuspsychje> its just a question we see alot passing
<dax> is there a webpage (or a oneliner that fits in a factoid) that actually solves the question, rather than answering "this is what a keying is"?
<dax> (i assume the question is the "Your keyring was not unlocked at login." problem)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> so users understand that part of enter password or leave blank
<lotuspsychje> http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2013/07/disable-unlock-login-keyring-ubuntu-13-04/
<lotuspsychje> cant find new stuff
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lordievader> BluesKaj: I suppose Ubuntu does. It used to anyways, not sure if it still has one.
<lordievader> Or how it is called these days.
<ducasse> good morning all
<lordievader> Hey Dducasse , How are you today?
<ducasse> i'm good lordievader, thanks - how are you?
<ducasse> had coffee yet? :)
<lordievader> Doing good hear, just ordered a pair of speakers.
<lordievader> Err, no tea. Found out I'm out of coffee.
<ducasse> tea is good, i'm on coca cola here. what kind of speakers?
<lordievader> These http://www.jamo.com/products/s622
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<BluesKaj> lordievader, that R13ose guy doesn't always give important details about his problems...he's constantly doing things of which he has no idea of the consequences...dealt with him a few times before
<lordievader> Yes, I know.
<BluesKaj> lots of hand holding
<lordievader> With the occasional "let me do this, crash".
<BluesKaj> yup
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> '
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> daylight in the swamp here, and it's snowing
<pauljw> snowing in swamp? BluesKaj, sounds like fun.
<BluesKaj> yeah, it's light fluffy stuff that doesn't really amount to much
<EriC^^> good afternoon everyone
<BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<EriC^^> how are you?
<BluesKaj> Good here EriC^^, how about you/
<EriC^^> good thanks
<BluesKaj> ?
<pauljw> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi pauljw how's it going?
<pauljw> good thx.  :)
<EriC^^> :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/amazon-brings-linux-distro-enterprise-making-red-hat-worry
<lotuspsychje> http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/10-reasons-why-linux-is-better-than-windows
<lotuspsychje> JanC: i bypassed belgian EID firefox 57 issue by adding the certificate, works now
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> hey lotuspsychje :) ,, been a good session ?
<lotuspsychje> just joined cant tell, currently active!
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: 2, just getting settled in . We be active :)
<Bashing-om> Outside chore .. back soonest :(
<lotuspsychje> breath deep :p
<pauljw> :)
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic artful
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.21.22 (artful), package size 2 kB, installed size 14 kB
<nicomachus> lotuspsychje: kernels up to 14.9 and 14.10?
<nicomachus> 4.14?
<lotuspsychje> er yeah
<lotuspsychje> oh wait holdon
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1734147
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 17.10 corrupting BIOS - many LENOVO laptops models" [Critical,Confirmed]
<nicomachus> I imagine that the 4.4 kernel will get updated too. surely not just 4.14
<lotuspsychje> 4.14.9
<lotuspsychje> and 4.14.10
<nicomachus> I've had a ton of updates this morning that look like library updates or something. wondering if that's related.
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: not sure im on bionic
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: !qemu real outdated 2011
<lotuspsychje> !qemu
<ubot5> qemu is an emulator you can use to run another operating system - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsXPUnderQemuHowTo
<dax> we're gonna need a KPTI factoid, way these questions are going
<lotuspsychje> dax: good idea
<dax> that's what, three just in the scrollback on my screen
<TJ-> dax: it's a major issue, for sure. "KAISER a.k.a Kernel Page Table Isolation is a bug in Intel CPUs since around 2006 which leaks information about kernel data structures into userspace and potentially allows attackers to execute code with kernel privileges"
<dax> !usn
<ubot5> Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about recent Ubuntu security updates.
<dax> "!kpti is <reply> The Linux community is working on a patchset for a hardening technique named KPTI that addresses recently-disclosed issues in some processors. Once finished, updates addressing this issue will be released through the normal Ubuntu security update process. See http://www.ubuntu.com/usn if you are interested in receiving all Ubuntu security update notifications."
<TJ-> dax: that's my best non-techy description for now. It's not clear (yet) if it does allow direct privilege escalation but based on the embargo and scramble to release patches it seems likely
<dax> s/some processors/many processors/
<TJ-> Make clear it does NOT affect AMD CPUs
<TJ-> Intel CPUs from the Core micro-architecture onwards are affected
<nicomachus> TJ-: I like the other name better but it's not mentionable on this channel. haha
<dax> which of our non-x86 supported targets does it affect?
<alkisg> I wonder if that will get backported to 16.04 non-hwe kernel, i.e. 4.4... It would be nice to have an insecure but faster kernel available :D
<dax> alkisg: iirc you can turn off the KPTI patchset with a kernel cmdline option, but not 100% sure, i've read a lot recently
<TJ-> dax: it's only Intel x86 for this one
<alkisg> Ah, that'd be perfect then
<alkisg> ty
<TJ-> dax: either "nopti" or "pti=off"
<dax> TJ-: are the ARM patches people keep going on about preventative?
<nicomachus> alkisg: i'd rather have it get fixed on a release that's supported for another 3.5 years...
<TJ-> dax: they're a slightly different issue to this one, but with a similar result
<TJ-> for ARM64
<alkisg> nicomachus: if there's a switch for it, yeah, I'd love to have it. Although 16.04 comes with 4.10 nowadays, 4.4 is the non-hwe version
<nicomachus> yea I'm still on 4.4 here
<TJ-> e.g. revealing the kernel's randomised base/load address
<nicomachus> -104
<nicomachus> dax: please use Forcefully Unmap Complete Kernel With Interrupt Trampolines
<dax> "!kpti is <reply> The Linux community is working on a patchset for a hardening technique named KPTI that addresses recently-disclosed issues in Intel processors. Once finished, updates addressing this issue will be released through the normal Ubuntu security update process. See http://www.ubuntu.com/usn if you are interested in receiving all Ubuntu security update notifications."
<dax> nicomachus: ah, is that what that stood for
<dax> "!kpti is <reply> The Linux community is working on a patchset for a hardening technique named KPTI that addresses recently-disclosed issues in Intel processors. Once finished, updates containing this patchset will be released through the normal Ubuntu security update process. See http://www.ubuntu.com/usn if you are interested in receiving all Ubuntu security update notifications."
<TJ-> ah, kernel devs and their naming conventions, such wags!
<alkisg> How old intel CPUs does it affect? E.g. the first dual cores? Or even P4's?
<dax> alkisg: Core onwards, TJ- just said
<TJ-> alkisg: ^^
<alkisg> Sorry didn't see that. Whoops, that's a very big range
<alkisg> And are we expecting a 10% slowdown?
<nicomachus> TJ-: I think they got a little frustrated trying to fix it. :D
<dax> further wording suggestions? (also, any aliases?)
<dax> alkisg: it's workload-dependent. I have 4.15-rc6 on my machine right now which has it, and I don't notice any slowdown
<lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-more-x86pti&num=1
<dax> because my CPU isn't pegged, like most people's aren't
<alkisg> Nice to hear, ty :)
<nicomachus> dax: I'm worried about the slowdown
<lotuspsychje> cant find official ubuntu kpti articles yet
<nicomachus> alkisg: I've heard more along the lines of 5-30(!!)% slowdown
<alkisg> Ouch
<dax> lotuspsychje: afaik there aren't any
<TJ-> as far as I've been able to tell from my research reading Intel whitepapers this bug is in the Core micro-architecture's Smart Memory Access technolgy, specifically I think the speculative reordering of data loads before stores, which can cause page exceptions and reveal which addresses the kernel is using
<dax> TJ-: yeah, that matches what I've seen so far (which is significantly less in-depth than your reading, I expect, but isn't just pop media)
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: it's under embargo, everything you're hearing is intelligent 'speculation' based on patches and some published papers
<lotuspsychje> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/01/03/fckwit-aka-kaiser-aka-kpti-intel-cpu-flaw-needs-low-level-os-patches/amp/
<dax> and I'm not putting speculation in factoids, and that includes performance numbers
<nicomachus> "These KPTI patches move the kernel into a completely separate address space, so it's not just invisible to a running process, it's not even there at all. Really, this shouldn't be needed, but clearly there is a flaw in Intel's silicon that allows kernel access protections to be bypassed in some way."
<nicomachus> "The downside to this separation is that it is relatively expensive, time wise, to keep switching between two separate address spaces for every system call and for every interrupt from the hardware. These context switches do not happen instantly, and they force the processor to dump cached data and reload information from memory. This increases the kernel's overhead, and slows down the
<nicomachus> computer."
<TJ-> Xen have an embargo on XSA-253 due to lift tomorrow lunchtime UTC which is probably it: https://xenbits.xen.org/xsa/
<dax> !kpti
<ubot5> The Linux community is working on a patchset for a hardening technique named KPTI that addresses recently-disclosed issues in Intel processors. Once finished, updates containing this patchset will be released through the normal Ubuntu security update process. See http://www.ubuntu.com/usn if you are interested in receiving all Ubuntu security update notifications.
<dax> !-kpti
<ubot5> kpti aliases: kaiser - added by dax on 2018-01-03 21:09:51
<TJ-> if you want to read Intel's whitepaper on Smart Memory Access I have it here: http://iam.tj/projects/Intel-SmartMemoryAccess.pdf
<nicomachus> TJ-: looks like someone found an exploit: https://twitter.com/brainsmoke/status/948561799875502080
<dax> (feel free to highlight when the situation changes or if you have additional alias suggestions. going afk for a little bit)
<nicomachus> dax: I suppose if you really wanted, you could link this: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/4/709
<TJ-> nicomachus: yes, that's it
<lotuspsychje> nice find nicomachus
<JanC> lotuspsychje: you mean you manually added the "security device" or whatever they call it?
<JanC> in Firefox 58 there should be an "easy way" to add it again
<lotuspsychje> https://newsroom.intel.com/news/intel-responds-to-security-research-findings/
<lotuspsychje> JanC: the belgian ROOT certificate upload to firefox options/certificates
<lotuspsychje> JanC: libbeid...so
<lotuspsychje> and now its working
<JanC> that's more than only the root cert
<lotuspsychje> yeah, the security device
<lotuspsychje> JanC: anyway its working now
<JanC> Wouter wrote a patch to add a function that allows adding security devices to the new extension API for Firefox, but they didn't want to include it into 57, but it should be in 58
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> ive tested on 57 + bionic devel
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<lotuspsychje> the whole web full of that kpti bug
<JanC> from what I've read (which is not much yet), the slowdown from the patch for the Intel issue mostly affects systems that need to do lots of kernel/userspace context switches
<dax> yes, that's where the slowdown is
<dax> so you'll be more or less affected depending on whether your workload 1) does lots of context switches (not including VDSO), 2) runs your CPU at 100%
<dax> so most people, even most gamers, won't even notice
<JanC> not sure how much context switches they need for graphics...
<JanC> applications that do a lot of I/O would be heavily affected probably
<dax> if they're CPU-bound
<dax> I mean, I'm looking at this from the point of view of desktop users + people running VMs that aren't pegged
<dax> and they'll probably see somewhat lower numbers if they run a benchmark, and not notice otherwise
<JanC> we'll see, I guess
<TJ-> JanC: also for interrupts and page-fault handling
<JanC> anything using a tight I/O polling loop would be affected (but that's probably not a good design anyway)
<dax> (which leads to the more general discussion of how modern Intel CPUs are all ridiculous overkill for consumer workloads, hence the switch to competing based on wattage etc. instead of Ghz)
<TJ-> Intel seem to be in denial over it "...when used for malicious purposes, have the potential to improperly gather sensitive data from computing devices that are operating as designed" and trying to imply this isn't unique to them, which explains why the AMD patch has made it clear they're not affected
<JanC> well, it depends what you want to do  :)
<dax> hint: whatever crazy CPU-bound "what you want to do" you just came up with isn't what i meant by "consumer workloads"
<TJ-> "operating as designed" in this case is == "operating insecurely as designed"
<dax> "Intel believes its products are the most secure in the world" lol
<TJ-> dax: yes, it's such tosh it's obvious they're in denial and scrambling for damage limitation over responsible disclosure :)
<JanC> dax: some webpages manage to permanently peg a CPU core to 100% quite easily  :)
<JanC> (but you won't solve that with a faster CPU)
<dax> i wouldn't know. my workplace installs adblocker automatically. my home stuff is all adblockered. and i don't go to crappy gaming websites.
<JanC> oh, even Twitter & crap like that can do that if you leave a page open long enough...
<JanC> it's just bad JavaScript programming usually
<TJ-> I like umatrix since it shows the 3rd-party domains and blocks them by default, but makes it easy to enable selected resources either temporarily or permanently
<dax> https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html
<TJ-> so, the reason AMD say they are not affected is the proof-of-concept allows a read but without crossing the privilege boundary, whereas Intel CPUs do
<dax> *nod*
<dax> didn't read much past the list of PoCs yet
<TJ-> and PoC #2 affects them only if " If the kernel's BPF JIT is enabled (non-default configuration), it also works on the AMD PRO CPU"
<dax> any idea whether Ubuntu enabled that?
<nacc> CONFIG_BFP_JIT=y in the 17.10 kernel
<nacc> i'm fairly sure all distros enable it, but not 100%
<TJ-> /boot/config-4.4.0-105-lowlatency:CONFIG_HAVE_BPF_JIT=y
<dax> nice
<nacc> it's a fairly significant performance difference for that particular toggle (iirc)
<TJ-> interesting that the hyper-threading is one vector to exploitation too since that's a single core and therefore it's possible to have 1 thread doing injections and the other testing if they are successful
<TJ-> blimey! design-gotchya 101: "...Given that branch prediction also must be very fast, we concluded that it is likely that the update function of the history buffer left-shifts the old history buffer, then XORs in the new state"
<TJ-> that's in reference to the prediction history buffer, which is ~26 entries deep
<nacc> TJ-: nice
<TJ-> oh wonderful: "...  It would be interesting to see whether attacks against more advanced JIT engines with less control over the system are also practical - in particular, JavaScript engines."
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, i think the first matter of business is disabling JS :?
<nacc> :/ rather
<dax> !kpti
<ubot5> The Linux community is working on a patchset for a hardening technique named KPTI that addresses recently-disclosed issues in most modern processors. Once finished, updates containing this patchset will be released through the normal Ubuntu security update process. See http://www.ubuntu.com/usn if you are interested in receiving all Ubuntu security update notifications. For more information on the relevant bugs, see https://spectreattack.com/
<dax> !-kpti
<ubot5> kpti aliases: kaiser, spectre, meltdown - added by dax on 2018-01-03 21:09:51 - last edited by dax on 2018-01-03 22:57:32
<nacc> dax: thx
<TJ-> "every Intel processor which implements out-of-order execution ... affected ... effectively every processor since 1995 (except Intel Itanium and Intel Atom before 2013"
<TJ-> No wonder this is making waves, they've a PoC working using Javascript to escape browser sandboxing using the spectre technique
<TJ-> not a problem for servers of course (err, hello, node.js)
<JanC> does anyone know if CPUs from other brands are affected by the Intel issue or similar?
<dax> it's discussed in the FAQ on  https://spectreattack.com/
<TJ-> PoC code in the PDF in 124 SLOC
<JanC> the FAQ isn't entirely clear, and elsewhere there is conflicting information...
<TJ-> JanC: right now there are only proofs-of-concept on Intel hardware. Spectre paper says they think that'll affect AMD Ryzen too but they didn't actually test it
<TJ-> Interestingly, AMD claim that their prediction/speculative execution is using a neural-network that learns and adapts and is/should therefore be mostly immune to some of these attacks, or be very unpredictable
<TJ-> (thus making it hard to exploit reliably)
<TJ-> which possibly infers that AMD systems with longer up-times are less susceptible
<JanC> might also depend on how predictable things actually are  :)
<TJ-> It's certainly a watershed moment; lots of admins going to be burning midnight oil as the saying goes
<JanC> well, there is no solution for Spectre AFAICT, so no point trying to fix that (certainly not as an admin)
<TJ-> It could be this causes a major pause in the rush to 'cloud'
<JanC> yeah
<TJ-> since these are really serious for shared-tennant services
<JanC> although that might depend on how mass media describe it (as the people who decide on using the cloud or not might often not be technical people...)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-04
<TJ-> Lots of very large organisations using 'cloud' for critical stuff, storing confidential data alongside (e.g. AWS S3), are going to need to re-evaluate and possibly switch to more expensive, dedicated, hardware
<JanC> they probably should, but I doubt most will, unless there is a huge push against the cloud in mass media...  :)
<TJ-> Some are legally obliged to; their service providers can no longer guarantee security for shared tennants
<JanC> nobody can guarantee security
<TJ-> indeed, but for example, some AWS contracts specify compliance with legal requirements on data confidentiality (e.g. healthcare records in USA) e.g. https://aws.amazon.com/health/providers-and-insurers/  where one of the selling points is "Improve your Security and Compliance Posture"
<JanC> well, they are still selling it, right?  ;)
<JanC> so Red Hat mentions POWER architecture is impacted too
<JanC> and there is a possible solution or mitigation against Spectre which involves patches to both the kernel and to GCC
<JanC> Linus: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/3/797  :P
<TJ-> yes, seen that, but have you read the thread? Andi's patches (from Dave Hansen @ Intel) - there's a 'retpoline' sequence that disables speculation, and it looks like part of it requires a build-time compiler operation or insertion of a custom blob
<nacc> there is ongoing discussion on that
<nacc> but yeah, it's compiler-assisted
<nacc> or needs perl in the kernel :-P
<JanC> like I said: it needs patches in both the kernel & the compiler
<TJ-> it looks like the best approach, if there are more workarounds in the pipeline
<JanC> and maybe requires re-building all applications with the new compiler really, as Spectre is mostly & per-process thing?
<TJ-> "-mindirect-branch=thunk-extern"
<JanC> or would the kernel part protect applications too?
<nacc> JanC: it probably could, at some cost (iiuc)
<JanC> the more I read about Spectre, the more this sounds like something I read about months or a year ago...
<JanC> probably someone speculating
<nacc> yeah it's been discussed for a while, i think
<nacc> theoretically discussed
<TJ-> there was a paper at US blackhat 2016 about these micro-arch attacks
<TJ-> we now also have this to give out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown
<JanC> ah, might have been from that, or a related/derived article/talk/paper
<TJ-> one of the BH paper authors is one of the authors of the KAISER paper/code
<dax> !kpti
<ubot5> Spectre and Meltdown are security issues that affect most processors, mitigated by a set of Linux kernel patches named KPTI. | General info: https://spectreattack.com/ | Ubuntu (and flavors) info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown | An Ubuntu Security Notice will be released when updates are available, subscribe at https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/
<TJ-> good job we can all fall-back on our RasPi clusters :)
<daftykins> Pis still don't have proper ubuntu images, do they? someone was looking it up the other day, seems to be a poor scenario
<TJ-> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/xenial/daily-preinstalled/current/
<daftykins> last i saw i thought they couldn't install other kernels though
<dax> Ben64: gotta love when ops calls fix the problem all by themselves
<Ben64> indeed
<daftykins> huh, an op did something?
<daftykins> :O
<Ben64> i'll never understand why a) people don't use the right channels and b) why they have to rebel against 'the man' and their 'rules'
<Ben64> anyway, time to preheat the oven for my tater tots
<daftykins> ooh yes please
<Ben64> come on over
<Ben64> making sloppy joes and tater tots
<Ben64> because i'm an adult and i can
<daftykins> :D
<Ben64> also i looked at how much i spent eating out in december and holy crap
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Morning lotuspsychje
<ducasse> morning all
<ducasse> hi lordievader, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> best of wishes in 2018 guys!
<lotuspsychje> on topic this new cve:
<lotuspsychje> !kpti
<ubot5> Spectre and Meltdown are security issues that affect most processors, mitigated by a set of Linux kernel patches named KPTI. | General info: https://spectreattack.com/ | Ubuntu (and flavors) info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown | An Ubuntu Security Notice will be released when updates are available, subscribe at https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> great here, enjoyed holidays
<lotuspsychje> tnx 4 the adjust dax
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<alkisg> Good morning everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey alkisg
<ducasse> hi alkisg, EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi ducasse
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> 1300+ users yesterday
<EriC^^> yuppers
<lotuspsychje> today 1400?
<lotuspsychje> :p
<EriC^^> hi alkisg
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: no work today
<EriC^^> ?
<lotus|bionic> EriC^^: 8january start
<EriC^^> cool
<lotus|bionic> yeah =p
<lotuspsychje> lucky you
<lotus|bionic> lol
<lotus|bionic> stay off the pc you
 * lotus|bionic spanks lotuspsychje 
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> lol okay doei
<lotus|bionic> grr
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<alkisg> Hello BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi alkisg
<EriC^^> good afternoon all
<BluesKaj> Hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj :)
<lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<lotuspsychje> hi TJ- pauljw
<pauljw> morning everyone
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-says-security-updates-for-meltdown-spectre-bugs-may-affect-performance-519214.shtml
<pauljw> anyone heard when we're supposed to get these patches?
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: still waiting
<pauljw> ok
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: they should show on !usn when ready
<BluesKaj> taking away rthe NSA etc 's back door :-)
<pauljw> thanks, no biggie as i do updates every morning
<pauljw> that would be great, BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: lol
<BluesKaj> that was mentioned by one of the so called experts over at the ##linux chat
<pauljw> heheh...
<BluesKaj> there's quite a few of them over there...an endless source of entertainment :-)
<lotuspsychje> https://fedoramagazine.org/protect-fedora-system-meltdown/
<lotuspsychje> https://askubuntu.com/questions/992137/how-to-check-that-kpti-is-enabled-on-my-ubuntu/992186#992186
<pauljw> the fallout of this should prove interesting.
<pauljw> from this
<daftykins> hey all \o
<EriC^^> heya daftykins o/
<pauljw> o/
<daftykins> well, it's not gonna be fixed even after patches
<EriC^^> happy (belated) new year
<daftykins> and to you :D
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> there'll be plenty more Intel ME issues to come this year, too :)
<pauljw> no, it's just a work around
<lotuspsychje> i also think mass exploits gonna come
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> the underground always faster then the patches
<pauljw> yep
<daftykins> and everyone faster than Equifax ;D
<BluesKaj> we got phony phone calls from scammers posing as Equifax fact checkers about our CCs and bank accts...I told them to send me their requests for info in the mail ...they hemmed and hawed fro a few swcs and said they would, but that was 2 months ago and we haven't received anything from them
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> a client had their secretary forward me a legit looking email offering the fraid protection services and so on
<daftykins> i asked how that really related to the work i do...
<BluesKaj> heh
<daftykins> *fraud oops
<BluesKaj> the reason i knew they were phishing is they couldn't  tell me the last 4 digits of my VISA card...wife just reminded me
<daftykins> ah har
<BluesKaj> always ask for correspondence by regular mail, simple but usually effective advice from my bank.
<daftykins> yip, that's true
<daftykins> right i'm heading off, laters all \o
<pauljw> :)
<TJ-> BluesKaj: but it's much more fun to give them incorrect information :p
<BluesKaj> TJ-, true, but the sooner I can get rid of them, the better...besides wife hates it when i stay on the phone and make fun of them. She's more paranoid than I am :-)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> I like blaming my wife :-)
<TJ-> I once had a very entertaining call where I turned tables on them, because, as I said "It's only fair if you want to know my bank account info that I also know yours!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> new usn, but for 12.04 https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3430-3/
<TJ-> Can I interest you in my new CPU architecture? I call it speculated-abacus because I sprinkled glitter on the beads :)
<pauljw> lol
<TJ-> I wish those security notices would drop the phrase " If a user were tricked into viewing a malicious website, " - the user doesn't need to be tricked, any web-site is potentially malicious, regardless of who operates it
<TJ-> I'm referring to the USN-3514-1 WebKitGTK+ batch
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> when is one really safe on the net?
<lotuspsychje> the best hacker is the invisible one, without a name, without a connection
<TJ-> You mean Intel? :D
<lotuspsychje> loll
<lotuspsychje> 1nt3L
<lotuspsychje> pikapika: was reading this, this morning: https://fedoramagazine.org/protect-fedora-system-meltdown/
<TJ-> Well, they've always been brazen about it with their "Intel Inside" trademark and campaign, just people didn't realise just how 'inside' Intel were
<pikapika> So um just to make it clear...in eli5 terms, fix isnt yet available for Ubuntu?
<lotuspsychje> pikapika: still in progress
<TJ-> It's being worked on, intensely! but the mainline patch-set isn't complete yet so there is no final 'fix' available. There may be more patches to fix discovered regressions yet
<pikapika> Ok, thanks. Any expected time for release?
<TJ-> pikapika: as soon as possible
<lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-kpti-kvm&num=1
<TJ-> pikapika: this was supposed to be under wraps until the 9th, to give time for OS vendors to get the updates published, so there's a week or work to be done instantly
<pikapika> Ok
<pikapika> I hope its released soon, as I am sorta a refugee from Windows 10 and wouldnt like going back
<TJ-> It depends on what you use the PC for, as to how urgent patching is. Enterprise services on shared hardware processing sensitive data are the most at-risk. Desktop users at least risk (especially once the browser updates are installed)
<pikapika> Oh
<pikapika> Yeah this too.
<pikapika> I'll have to check Firefox updates too
<TJ-> Mozilla are publishing updates which will be available quite soon
<pikapika> Yeah its an everyday use desktop, but still since the method is now so well known, things are um scary lol
<lotuspsychje> i dont get the hassle about 1 active security hole...there are soo many around for many Os and we keep saying: keep your system up to date..
<TJ-> The hassle is because this class of exploits effectively takes away all the security guarantees we've assumed were there for the last 15 years
<lotuspsychje> yeah understand that part
<TJ-> There will be more exploits using these general techniques; the researches developed 4 exploits for 'Spectre' but there will be many more
<TJ-> And for Intel CPUs 'Meltdown' is 'game over' - hence the performance-impacting workaround KAISER  a.k.a Kernel Page Table Isolation (KPTI) patches
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> there will be always guys testing/finding security holes
<lotuspsychje> with a lot of time
<TJ-> yes, this class of vulnerabilities has been well known since mid 2016, it was just a matter of time until effective exploits were developed
<lotuspsychje> we can learn so much of underground techniques
<lotuspsychje> and once its get official its way too late
<lotuspsychje> all got exploited already
<lotuspsychje> especially fast servers are big targets every time
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<dax> https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/1028222/linux/lts-kernel-patch-for-intel-cpu-vulnerability-breaks-nvidia-driver/post/5230546/#5230546
<dax> EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL + nvidia strikes again!
<TJ-> yes, I was looking at that earlier and grinning to myself since I reported a similar one for 4.14 when the AMD SME code was added, where Linux eventually over-rode the sub-system maintainer and changed to EXPORT_SYMBOL. I expect upstream will do likewise for this
<TJ-> s/Linux/Linus/ grrr, what is with my fingers today? Have they caught the speculative execution bug!?
<nicomachus> TJ-: maybe they're cold, like mine
<nicomachus> nacc: taking the problem over to #android now, but thanks for the help. adb is complaining about "insufficient permissions for device: verify udev rules." now
<nacc> nicomachus: fun :)
<nicomachus> I've never had a problem with adb before this stupid script. wondering if it's worth the effort... but the white background on the notification pane in Android 8 hurts my eyes.
<nicomachus> nacc: i made a stupid
<nacc> nicomachus: :)
<Ben64> nicomachus: supposedly with oreo we can theme the system
<nicomachus> Ben64: I think with Samsung devices you can easily. With mine, I had to install an app called substratrum and another called Andromeda, then run the companion Andromeda script over ADB from my laptop, and then I can pick a theme (installed separately from the play store)
<nicomachus> Ben64: if ONLY there was an easier way. this is without root, too.
<nicomachus> And I have to re-run the script and re-enable the theme if I reboot the phone.
<nicomachus> but, hey, it looks pretty sexy right now so I got that going for me.
<Ben64> i haven't tried it yet
<Ben64> but yeah,the white background and stuff is annoying
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-05
<dax> !kpti
<ubot5> Spectre and Meltdown are security issues that affect most processors, mitigated by a set of Linux kernel patches named KPTI. | General info: https://spectreattack.com/ | Ubuntu (and flavors) info: http://ubottu.com/y/ubukpti/ | An Ubuntu Security Notice will be released when updates are available, subscribe at https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/
<dax> changed the Ubuntu link to that insights.ubuntu.com one
<dax> as it covers things like why there aren't already updates out a bit better
<TJ-> "because we're all still on holiday!" :)
<Ben64> ok so no update for 17.04 or 17.04's hwe kernel
<TJ-> well it looks as if the trickle of x86/mm patches might be done now so we may be able to backport with confidence. Others will have to do another kernel release to include the more recent fixes.
<dax> there's an odd clause in that insights blogpost though
<dax> "Ubuntu users of the 64-bit x86 architecture (aka, amd64) can expect updated kernels by the original January 9, 2018 coordinated release date, and sooner if possible. "
<dax> does it not affect 32-bit, or...?
<TJ-> I've not seen anything in the papers or the patches that suggests x86 32-bit isn't affected. I suspect that sentence is a focused oversight
<dax> yeah, I hadn't seen anything either. it is odd.
<dax> *shrug* will just wait and see what they come out with
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> heya :)
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> !kpti
<ubot5> Spectre and Meltdown are security issues that affect most processors, mitigated by a set of Linux kernel patches named KPTI. | General info: https://spectreattack.com/ | Ubuntu (and flavors) info: http://ubottu.com/y/ubukpti/ | An Ubuntu Security Notice will be released when updates are available, subscribe at https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/
<lotuspsychje> any news yet?
<daftykins> not been looking if i'm honest :)
<lotuspsychje> hmm just a ruby flaw added
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/gnome-desktop-icons-removed-3-28
<lotuspsychje> ah!
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-will-soon-patch-all-supported-ubuntu-releases-against-meltdown-spectre-519234.shtml
<lotuspsychje> news afterall
<lotuspsychje> dax: can you use any of this ^
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/01/04/ubuntu-updates-for-the-meltdown-spectre-vulnerabilities/
<dax> re: the icon thing: saw talk about that on IRC earlier today, good chance Ubuntu won't be going with nautilus 3.28 for 18.04 because of it
<dax> that insights post is on !kpti now, added it a few hours ago
<dax> it's the ubottu.com shortened link
<lotuspsychje> ah great tnx
<dax> that's the most recent news i've seen, personally
<lotuspsychje> yep
<dax> the softpedia post is basically a restatement of the insights.ubuntu.com one, so i'd go with the latter
<lotuspsychje> dax: agree :p
<lotuspsychje> few days more settle down users now
<lotuspsychje> !info gnome-shell bionic
<ubot5> gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component main, is optional. Version 3.26.2-0ubuntu2 (bionic), package size 675 kB, installed size 7466 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-linux-is-dealing-with-meltdown-and-spectre/
<lotuspsychje> linus is mad oO
<Ben64> ew, autoplaying video
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> welcome
<DrManhattan> hola
<DrManhattan> so do you think 4.10 to 4.15 stable vanilla would be too big a jump?
<DrManhattan> it's still using the ubuntu configs, I love it!
<DrManhattan> seriously thanks again this is better than I could have hoped for
<DrManhattan> I wish it would update via APT
 * DrManhattan cracks his knuckles
<daftykins> !mainline
<ubot5> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<daftykins> it can
<daftykins> but you shouldn't chase version numbers
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje, how are you today?
<lotuspsychje> great here, what about you ducasse
<ducasse> i'm fine, thanks
<ducasse> still waking up :)
<lotuspsychje> coffee to the rescue
<lotuspsychje> or tea
<DrManhattan> daftykins, I just want to chase the latest that Linus says is good to go ::)
<daftykins> ducasse: \o
<daftykins> DrManhattan: afraid of the news story huh? waste of time
<daftykins> just wait for patches to your normal kernel :) or just boot with the kernel boot parameter
<DrManhattan> Noes not the news
<ducasse> \o daftykins - how goes?
<daftykins> DrManhattan: why chase versions then?
<daftykins> ducasse: not too shabby thanks, although this morning is a little boring :)
<ducasse> daftykins: mornings usually are :)
<DrManhattan> daftykins, because we can!
<daftykins> DrManhattan: that's really silly
<DrManhattan> No, it is not silly.
<daftykins> yeah it is, because you'll be just fine staying with your distros patches as they become available
<lotuspsychje> bbl brunch :p
<immu> hi
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<BluesKaj> good here, we have an arctic blast here ...very very cold even for my neck of the woods, but otherwise I'm fine, How about you?
<EriC^^> i'm ok, it's very cold here as well, it's been raining for the past 3 days straight
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> 1377 users
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: !kpti edited
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, guess we just need some patience with the kpti patches
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> whats that package channel called again guys?
<lotuspsychje> where they spam new releases
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: for Ubuntu? #ubuntu-release
<lotuspsychje> ah tnx hggdh
<lotuspsychje> thats the one i looked for :p
<TJ-> it doesn't show up in an /alis search, strangely
<lotuspsychje> hi Scytale89
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx and you EriC^^
<EriC^^> great thanks
<EriC^^> seen any good movies lately?
<lotuspsychje> hmm not really
<EriC^^> i saw source code, not bad
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did you check who am i yet?
<EriC^^> nope what's that?
<lotuspsychje> german hack movie lol
<EriC^^> oh
<lotuspsychje> lemme find link
<EriC^^> is it in english?
<lotuspsychje> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Am_I_(2014_film)
<lotuspsychje> no german, but you might find one with eng subs
<lotuspsychje> 7.6 imdb
<lotuspsychje> not bad heh
<jink> Meh, not on Netflix (yet?).
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> 1423 users EriC^^
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> that uefi guy is back EriC^^
<EriC^^> which one?
<EriC^^> oh monk2
<lotuspsychje> ye
<EriC^^> source code is kinda mind boggling
<EriC^^> you gotta see it, though i cant talk much without giving away something
<lotuspsychje> how much on imdb?
<EriC^^> lol who cares i am the imdb god
<EriC^^> haha
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> 7.5/10
<lotuspsychje> what was i thinking hehe
<EriC^^> it's not like anything you've ever seen though
<EriC^^> 'A soldier wakes up in someone else's body and discovers he's part of an experimental government program to find the bomber of a commuter train. A mission he has only 8 minutes to complete. '
<lotuspsychje> 2011 movie?
<EriC^^> yeah it's kinda old
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. Geting settled in for another fun day - hoz it been ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: kind crowdy, 1423+
<Bashing-om> The more the merrier :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-06
<kkremitzki> I found a really interesting tool today which some of you might appreciate: https://github.com/soimort/translate-shell
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<tsimonq2> yo
<tsimonq2> I'm back in here :D
<lotuspsychje> hey tsimonq2 wb
<tsimonq2> Forgot why I left :)
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: its very nice here these days :p
<tsimonq2> Heh :)
<lotuspsychje> !kpti
<ubot5> Spectre and Meltdown are security issues that affect most processors, mitigated by a set of Linux kernel patches named KPTI. | General info: https://spectreattack.com/ | Ubuntu (and flavors) info: http://ubottu.com/y/ubukpti/ | An Ubuntu Security Notice will be released when updates are available, subscribe at https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/
<lotuspsychje> https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3516-1/
<lotuspsychje> firefox holes, no kpti yet
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0.4+build1-0ubuntu0.17.10.1 (artful), package size 45050 kB, installed size 171531 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-17-04-the-last-release-with-unity-7-reaches-end-of-life-on-january-13-519257.shtml
<tsimonq2> Scroll to the bottom of the article and do a /whois on me, lotuspsychje :)
<tsimonq2> ;)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> so upgrade to artful reccomended but iso reinstall not
<tsimonq2> Right
<tsimonq2> But it's ready for testing
<lotuspsychje> kk
<tsimonq2> I also wrote this ;) ;) http://lubuntu.me/lubuntu-17-04-eol-and-lubuntu-17-10-respins/
<tsimonq2> (has an FAQ and everything)
<lotuspsychje> lets read
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: neat!
<lotuspsychje> http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/how-hackers-can-read-your-websites-passwords-using-meltdown-and-spectre-with-solution
<EriC^> what are you naughty guys up to today
<tsimonq2> Hey, long time no see :)
<EriC^> hey :)
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: you usually idle in release and offtopic?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^: just wokeup testing few bionic bugs
<lotuspsychje> plymouth error windows on startup desktop, but when i tryed to bug, firefox freezed
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: I left offtopic a while ago due to the high volume
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: But yeah, I'm in most if not all of the development channels
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: ok mate wb anyhow
<lotuspsychje> lets see what happens on ubuntu-bug plymouth
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/1741598
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1741598 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "plymouth crashed after login to desktop 18.04" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> worked
<tsimonq2> Thanks lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: now wich package should i bug against for touchpad at gdm3?
<lotuspsychje> cant click a username with touchpad tap, only left mouse button
<lotuspsychje> not sure if its a bug yet or supposed to?
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: I'd start with gdm3 :)
<lotuspsychje> tested on several machines ubuntu-desktop
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: kk
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1741599
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1741599 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Cannot click a username at gdm3 with touchpad 18.04" [Undecided,New]
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> all good there?
<ducasse> morning lotuspsychje - all well here, thanks. and you?
<lotuspsychje> great, playing bionic :p
<lotuspsychje> and we have tsimonq2 back :p
<ducasse> :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: we had 2 users on kde this morning with system lags/YT/games
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: what do you reccomend for system specs to run kde smooth?
<BluesKaj> my old pc here runs snicely with an amd 5200+ cpu , 6GB Ram on a Samsung EVO 850 sdd and nvidia GT 210 gpu...but no games
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: perhaps 4gig ram is a must on kde? they tested same stuff on unity and that went smooth
<BluesKaj> 4Gb should run ok, I ran kde4 on 4Gb until I added the 2Gb
<lotuspsychje> kk
<BluesKaj> there was Ram haif price sale on amazon so upgraded wifes and my pc
<lotuspsychje> wb
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i tested also on amd cpu/2gig ram 850 pro ssd and was laggy for me
<lotuspsychje> i would upgrade, my netbook can only take 2
<BluesKaj> I don't run any PIM apps like kmail and kontact and disable the akonadi server/desktop search in system settings
<lotuspsychje> but main system still plasma right?
<BluesKaj> yup
<lotuspsychje> cool
<BluesKaj> there a lot of background services that can be disabled in startup & shtudown in system settings as well
<lotuspsychje> aha
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, but one has to experiment to see what some these service actually do...the descriptions are typical man type descriptions which can be meaningless to some
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ok tnx
<BluesKaj> probly obvious to experienced linux user like you tho
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i was just wondering for those 2 users, fresh installs and so many lag issues
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: and on the web, i read all kind of stuff users with lags and users saying kde real lightweight
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, lightweight? it's usually the opposite :-)
<lotuspsychje> kk
<BluesKaj> kde can be a much heavier load than mate and xfce etc DEs
<BluesKaj> that's why it's so flexible ...has alot of options and "looks" the other DEs don't have
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje, BluesKaj, everyone.  :)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw :-)
<lotuspsychje> https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3516-1/
<lotuspsychje> new FF hole
<pauljw> just installed new firefox update this morning...
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox bionic
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0.1+build2-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 45037 kB, installed size 171466 kB
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: your on xenial?
<pauljw> yeah lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox xenial
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0.4+build1-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 44650 kB, installed size 170756 kB
<lotuspsychje> im safe :p
<pauljw> :)
<pauljw> i do system updates every morning and firefox was all there was today.
<lotuspsychje> here also auto updates
<BluesKaj> I switched to chrome permanently about a yr ago due to the flash video plugin probs with FF
<lotuspsychje> ah i run both FF & chromium
<lotuspsychje> wb
<EriC^^> thx
<lotuspsychje> bad connection today EriC^^
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wifi or cable?
<EriC^^> wifi
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: your too far from modem?
<EriC^^> hmm dont think so dunno
<EriC^^> i put a repeater in the middle of the house
<lotuspsychje> i can send you an eth cable if you want :p
<EriC^^> great, send me a 40meter one :P
<lotuspsychje> lollll
<EriC^^> the modem is on the other side of the house, on the balcony
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i bought me a devolo for that
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: uses cable over powerline
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> looks promising
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> EriC^^, hey
<immu> whats up
<EriC^^> not much, checking out home networking stuff
<EriC^^> you?
<lotuspsychje> https://www.devolo.com/en/Products/dLAN-550-duo+
<lotuspsychje> got this one EriC^^
<EriC^^> that's crazy, so you just plug it into a wall and plug another in another wall and you got internet?
<EriC^^> i'm definitely getting this
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: modem====devolo1/room1        room2/devolo2====laptop
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you can also buy the one with wifi
<EriC^^> awesome i was just thinking that i need wifi
<lotuspsychje> relatively cheap also
<immu> i am in Windows
<EriC^^> cool
<immu> rebooting now
<immu> lotuspsychje, is your homewired with lan?
<daftykins> mine sure is :)
<immu> i got a eight port patch panel
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> category 6 and full gigabit everywhere
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> i've filled a 16 port switch now with all my toys
<daftykins> to think i put 6 into my lounge but i'm using every single one already
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: you got 16 pc's in your house?
<daftykins> devices, not PCs
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> cool!
<daftykins> well some are PCs of course but not all :>
<lotuspsychje> what brand daftykins
<daftykins> brand of what?
<daftykins> lounge is TV, AV receiver, desktop gaming spec PC, Pi 3, xbox one and amazon FireTV
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: switch
<daftykins> ah just a linksys that was cheap a couple of years ago in amazon deals
<lotuspsychje> love linksys
<lotuspsychje> i got the 4 port switch myself
<daftykins> i always had netgear ones in the past, but 8 ports i grew out of fast :)
<immu> with switch you don't have to worry about where your patch panels port are networked to? lotuspsychje daftykins
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: what purpose is your pi3?
<daftykins> immu: well with a patch panel by your switch, you would just plug in or 'patch in' the ports you want to use, although in my case i just plugged them all in
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: i run picoreplayer on it, so it pretends to be a logitech squeezebox - means both in my lounge and bedroom i can have fully synced up network music controlled from my phone :)
<daftykins> with no ridiculous price of those Sonos systems people get
<lotuspsychje> nice
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> i used to use powerline adapters up to my bedroom too, but i put in fully wired during the house works in 2017 :)
<daftykins> just the two up to there though
<immu> i have a router acting a AP in my home in each room :) works wonders
<BluesKaj> a friend had a dedicated filtered line run from his panel to his media room ...dunno if it made any difference in terms of video and audio qualities tho
<daftykins> immu: that's a bit of a waste of power
<daftykins> BluesKaj: haha, the network cable? sounds like an audiphile ;)
<immu> not much, as i got only two, due to the placement of my master bedroom i cannot get proper wifi signals
<daftykins> *audiophile
<daftykins> immu: ah right
<immu> and they are configured for power saving features available
<immu> brb rebooting
<BluesKaj> daftykins, it was meant for interference free power for mixers and recording his band mostly
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<BluesKaj> the other media like TV and video equipment obviously received the benefits too
<lotuspsychje> i ordered a devolo smoke detector for my brother in law
<lotuspsychje> with android app
<lotuspsychje> so when he's house is on fire, het gets a message :p
<TJ-> Aren't these devices supposed to be smart? If so, why don't they but the fire out!?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> mobile===press spray====house under water
<lotuspsychje> these days hackers break into your default admin:1234 freezer over network, to open the garage and steal your car
<lotuspsychje> great idea IOT
<TJ-> As long as they don't steal the milk
<lotuspsychje> lol
<immu> back
<EriC^^> wb immu!
<immu> tu EriC^^
<immu> whats the topic today? 17.04 is expiring
<lotuspsychje> yeah soon
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-17-04-the-last-release-with-unity-7-reaches-end-of-life-on-january-13-519257.shtml
<daftykins> it was always a good feeling once the herd was culled :)
<EriC^^> !mainline
<ubot5> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<immu> does any one know how to change from affirmative sentences into negative sentences
<immu> i.e. sharon makes modles from clay, change it negative sentences
<daftykins> "sharon makes crap modles from clay" ;D hehe nah i don't really follow you there
<immu> afirmative sentences to negative, its grammer, :)
<daftykins> grammar :)
<daftykins> i think when you know English natively you don't understand it on a technical level, you just know what sounds correct
<TJ-> "Sharon makes models from clay" --> "Sharon DOES NOT make models from clay"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<immu> tnx TJ- & daftykins
<immu> true daftykins
<TJ-> "Intel makes secure CPUs" --> "Intel DOES NOT make secure CPUs"
<daftykins> "Sharon said sod this for a game o' monkeys, and threw the clay out the window"
<daftykins> TJ-: :D
<TJ-> "My PC is 100% Secure" --> "My PC is on the scrap heap"
<immu> Intel on purpose choose to make a crappy processor
<daftykins> er, no
 * lotuspsychje roflol
<BluesKaj> heh, my Lenov has an intel i3 cpu ..best of both worlds :-)
<TJ-> Intel did choose (as did other chip designers); it was a design decision for performance over security. Even the more difficult to exploit speculative cache timing atacks were known of, and designed against, in the 1970s/80s
<BluesKaj> lenovo
<immu> linus did say something over such a decision
<daftykins> well he is somewhat biased when things like that occur
<daftykins> sure it was dumb in hindsight, but nobody is smart for second guessing years later :)
<TJ-> daftykins: the thing is, these issues were well known in computer engineering and cryptography from the 1980s, but were ignored or not taken seriously. There are secure design standards and methodologies that explicitly call out these issues, under the headings 'storage' and 'timing' (TCSEC) which specifically require consideration of Covert Channel Analysis
<daftykins> ah right
<lotuspsychje> bbl have a nice1
<TJ-> TCSEC was replaced by the Common Criteria, you can read it here: http://gauss.ececs.uc.edu/Project4/Documents/common-criteria.pdf
<immu> does any one know the factor of 80?
<daftykins> that question doesn't even make sense to me (:
<immu> the numbers that are multiplied to get a product are called its factors
<immu> so what are the factors of the number 80 :)
<daftykins> this game is a little school level
<BluesKaj> extremely well produced hoax or....?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNz7BNhdkfw
<immu> BluesKaj, yup
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-07
<utlmh> âââââââââââââ LRH IS LIVE NOW!! TODAYS EDITION SLIMER GETS FUCKED IN VEGAS!! https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live CALL 315-505-4666 mzcfte: ReimuHakurei_ boshhead dragan-s âââââââââââââââââââ
<utlmh> âââââââââââ LRH IS LIVE NOW!! TODAYS EDITION SLIMER GETS FUCKED IN VEGAS!! https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live CALL 315-505-4666 iucxxrjlrm: Nokaji harrow EriC^^ âââââââââââ
<utlmh> Ã¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââ LRH IS LIVE NOW!! TODAYS EDITION SLIMER GETS FUCKED IN VEGAS!! https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live CALL 315-505-4666 hvubxtfyq: Ben64 Jonesy_ ikevin Ã¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢ââÃ¢
<utlmh> âââââââââââââââââ LRH IS LIVE NOW!! TODAYS EDITION SLIMER GETS FUCKED IN VEGAS!! https://www.youtube.com/user/l0de/live CALL 315-505-4666 nsjxua: dexterfoo jalcine EriC^^ âââââââââââââââ
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> can do this no more - G nite \o
<lotuspsychje> morning alkisg
<alkisg> Good morning lotuspsychje, hi all!
<tsimonq2> Yo!
<lotuspsychje> hey tsimonq2
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: v7 was crossposting in linux this morning so unsure for his different storys
<alkisg> Ah, ty
<ducasse> good morning, all
<alkisg> Good morning ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi alkisg, lotuspsychje - you guys doing well today?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<alkisg> After 12 days with 6 kids here, now the real vacations start :D
<lotuspsychje> nice1 alkisg
<lotuspsychje> work time lol?
<alkisg> Relaxing sunday, then work :)
<lotuspsychje> same here
<ducasse> same plan as me then, do as little as possible? :)
<ducasse> ooof, -14Â°C here :(
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje turns up the heat
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> afternoon EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> how was the skate session
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> good
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> bionic alpha pushed to future due to meltdown bug : (
<EriC^^> ah
<EriC^^> is this bug serious, everybody is talking about it
<lotuspsychje> should be pretty serious yes
<EriC^^> interesting
<EriC^^> i guess on shared vps and stuff its important
<lotuspsychje> yeah i think alot of server will get targetted
<BluesKaj> meltdown bug on bionic ?
<lotuspsychje> i think meltdown on all versions right?
<EriC^^> yup
<EriC^^> our isp finally has a new website
<EriC^^> thank god, it was becoming shameful
<EriC^^> https://www.ogero.gov.lb/
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: your isp owned by the gov?
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: neat website
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: better watch what you type then :p
<EriC^^> ogero is government owned, it gives internet to other isp's that are private, but it's the same just so it doesn't seem monopolish
<EriC^^> lol nah, it's not like that here
<lotuspsychje> was joking EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i guess every isp is related to gov no?
<EriC^^> have you seen 'winter bones' with jennifer lawrence and robert denero
<EriC^^> ?
<lotuspsychje> hmm doesnt ring a bell no
<lotuspsychje> i watched hacker 2016 yesterday
<EriC^^> no in other countries they have private lines
<lotuspsychje> was pretty neat, and its based on a true story
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ah kk
<EriC^^> aha
<lotuspsychje> i like deniro
<EriC^^> yeah he's good
<EriC^^> jennifer lawrence is famous for good acting skills too
<lotuspsychje> lemme imdb that
<EriC^^> already got an oscar
<lotuspsychje> 7.2
<lotuspsychje> not bad
<BluesKaj> actually ISPs should be utilities, like water a sewer Utlities, not like electricity ones which are mostly privtely owned corporations nowadays
<EriC^^> i wish they'd release a really cool scifi movie like the matrix
<EriC^^> it was mind blowing when it came out, wish something like it hits the movies
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: looks like psychological flick
<lotuspsychje> true BluesKaj
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: did you see 'the invention of lying'? it's by ricky gervais
<lotuspsychje> also not no
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the matrix was big hit when it came out, wanna get those also
<EriC^^> ricky gervais is hilarious
<EriC^^> i havent seen the movie either
<lotuspsychje> sometimes i feel like im outa good movies lol
<lotuspsychje> problem with imdb they rate movies from all time, i dont wanna see one from 1942...
<EriC^^> yeah it's been a while something extra wow hit
<lotuspsychje> i got a little theory on why they cant make good ones anymore
<lotuspsychje> they invent too much digital tricks
<lotuspsychje> 80-90 movies didnt had those, and made great movies
<EriC^^> lol i didnt see robert deniro in the trailer at all
<lotuspsychje> less special effects
<lotuspsychje> me neither, maybe he was some neighbour lol
<EriC^^> yeah sort of like nintendo
<EriC^^> they used to focus more on the game and story and characters and less on effects and stuff
<lotuspsychje> true
<EriC^^> interstellar was kind of neat
<EriC^^> when he falls into the blackhole and he's in the library behind his daughter it's pretty powerful
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: that crazy sound tru the whole movie i liked
<lotuspsychje> thats the kind of things they need to do..
<EriC^^> yeah the soundtrack is amazing, hans zimmer 'nuff said
<lotuspsychje> suspense
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: its like they start a good plot sometimes, and mess up the whole end
<lotuspsychje> i dont get that
<lotuspsychje> i think they do that on purpose, because we download tor..erm hire dvd's
<lotuspsychje> like martial arts EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> yeah it's nice
<lotuspsychje> got a nice collection of those aswell
<EriC^^> i watched ipman 123
<EriC^^> they were good
<lotuspsychje> yeah i loved those
<lotuspsychje> big trouble in little china
<lotuspsychje> american ninja
<EriC^^> wow
<EriC^^> 1986
<lotuspsychje> old stuff :p
<EriC^^> tucker that's the guy from 3000 miles to graceland
<EriC^^> i mean kurt russell
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> have you seen 3000 miles to ...?
<lotuspsychje> think so
<EriC^^> they rob a casino
<EriC^^> wow some movies have iddb in the 2/10 range
<EriC^^> 'babes with blades' can't be that bad
<EriC^^> i wonder why it's so low
<EriC^^> writer cecily fay, directory cecily fay, actor cecily fay
<EriC^^> haha
<lotuspsychje> imdb is just a reviews of users
<lotuspsychje> i would rate some movies 10/10
<EriC^^> there's rotten tomatoes too
<EriC^^> is imdb people or critics?
<EriC^^> omg the babes with blades sucks ass, it's like someone made it in his home
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EriC^^> the knife looks from plastic
<lotuspsychje> oh wait i know a good movie
<lotuspsychje> now to recall title hmmm
<lotuspsychje> its about a serial killer in canada
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: the frozen ground, a must see
<EriC^^> there are some movies on this site dunno though
<EriC^^> https://123movieshub.to/123movies
<EriC^^> there's goodbye christopher robin, dunno its the true story about the guy who invented whinnie the poo, margie robberts (sp?) stars in it the australian girl from the wolf of wallstreet
<lotuspsychje> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2005374/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
<lotuspsychje> i would rate it 8
<EriC^^> john cusack nicholas cage
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> what's this about? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3521126/
<EriC^^> 8/10 imdb
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<EriC^^> dave franco james franco seth rogen
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> movie about weed for sure
<lotuspsychje> never heard of that
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, The Frozeb Ground takes place in Alaska and it's based on a real case.
<BluesKaj> Frozen even
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> i like true based storys BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> yeah they're usually more interesting then fictional ones
<BluesKaj> than
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<BluesKaj> we have strange sort opf weird cop show here called Cardinal, based on real cases, or so i've read...it's well done
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> blade runner 8.3 imdb oO
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3516-1/ this wasnt on bionic
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox bionic
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0.1+build2-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 45037 kB, installed size 171466 kB
<lotuspsychje> ah lenovo news: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/ubuntu-17-10-lenovo-fix
<lotuspsychje> wb hggdh
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: thank you sir
<TJ-> !mainline
<TJ-> !kernel
<TJ-> wakeup, little ubottu, wake up
<daftykins> come back, almost all is forgiven! ;D
<ubot5> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<ubot5> The core of Ubuntu is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, and if you need to troubleshoot issues, you can try a !Mainline kernel instead, but if you insist, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile (see also !Stages)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<daftykins> heya \o
<lotuspsychje> for the pi fans: http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspberry-pi-devices-aren-t-affected-by-the-meltdown-and-spectre-vulnerabilities-519255.shtml
<lotuspsychje> dax: interesting for a trigger? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport !apport
<lotuspsychje> !bug
<ubot5> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please report it using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<lotuspsychje> hmm nvm !bug mentions enough
<alkisg> Hehe, I can't imagine raspberries getting 30% more slower :D
<lotuspsychje> lol no
<lotuspsychje> alkisg: colortail -f /var/log/syslog on that machine and check what happens at those 30min
<lotuspsychje> tezogmix: welcome
<tezogmix> thanks lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> we have alot of volunteers with pi3's here
<lotuspsychje> tezogmix: posted earlier: http://news.softpedia.com/news/raspberry-pi-devices-aren-t-affected-by-the-meltdown-and-spectre-vulnerabilities-519255.shtml
<tezogmix> that's cool... so yeah, the ubuntu-mate that I flashed onto SD card is running nicely, minus the few steps I had to do with resizing the PI_BOOT on grub via ubuntu lts in that vmware I was running
<tezogmix> ah right the cortex chips are different lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> howso?
<daftykins> A57 is vulnerable iirc
<lotuspsychje> ah kk
<tezogmix> https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update
<tezogmix> Pi 1 and Zero (W): ARM11 // Pi 2 V1: ARM Cortex-A7 // Pi 2 V1.2 and Pi 3: ARM Cortex-A53
<tezogmix> there were a few ARM variants further below on that link above from ARM for linux-based operations
<tezogmix> During the initial upgrade I tried via the application/software manager on ubuntu-mate, it said there was not enough space on the BOOT partition, the microSD was a clean formated 32GB card... Fortunately, I followed this video on youtube since it appears it was a known issue but never was corrected from the latest image files available: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYAnmjT8P-E
<tezogmix> afterwards, I've been just following the terminal sudo-apt update/dist upgrades and that's been working ok. One major error that seems to not be fixed is Firefox from version 55+ to Quantum does NOT work, it force-quits error on launch. I had to install firefox ESR and that works..
<tezogmix> that's for the PI 3b/ubuntu-mate
<lotuspsychje> i see
<tezogmix> it's been a long discussion on the forums, initially thought it was a quantum error but community says it's been happening since many firefox standard versions prior
<lotuspsychje> tezogmix: what you use your pi for?
<lotuspsychje> im always curious
<daftykins> developing patience skills must be the main one (:
<tezogmix> so in essence, I realize it's a volunteer community but I'm just curious as to its security aspect maintenance - lotuspsychje , oh I just bought this pi3 on a whim while at the local computer shop, I wanted to have a separate standalone OS to do simple web browsing/message boards (not intense video streaming) and something to where I can use without my VPN-IP, though I was able to set up vpn on it if needed.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<tezogmix> So it's hooked up to a 2.4ghz keyboard/mouse + vga monitor (using an hdmi-vga converter)
<daftykins> security? well Canonical employees handle the OS patching that isn't already handled upstream i imagine
<daftykins> VGA in 2018 :(
<tezogmix> totally new to the ubuntu/linux world, I came across this path (e.g. ubuntu vmware guest over win7 host) to do some openvpn testing/troubleshooting... windows 7 and possibly other higher versions, have a TAP driver limitation... so can't achieve openvpn aes128/sha1 speeds over 100Mbps really. Have an ISP 300/20Mbps...
<tezogmix> interestingly, we ruled out the i5 2nd gen not being able to handle it by running a ubuntu LTS 16.x live usb on the same laptop cold booted and setup VPN there, and on the same hardwired/router home setup, it was able to achieve 300Mbps+ via aes128-sha1
<daftykins> i wonder if win10 has that issue
<tezogmix> so then wanted to try ubuntu within the vmware bridged mode, can get 300/20+mbps vpn-off, however within vpn-on, ~100Mbps again
<daftykins> those are very low cipher configs for OpenVPN though i think
<daftykins> yeah 'cause it'll still be going through adapter bridging on the host OS
<daftykins> which vmware product and version though?
<tezogmix> yeah daftykins , from the vpn service I'm using, at least from the ubuntu live usb testing... we were shocked it was able to match the VPN speeds greater than 300Mbps..
<tezogmix> I'm using the free version of vmware workstation 14.1 (latest)
<daftykins> there isn't a free version
<tezogmix> and ubuntu LTS with 2 cores/2gb ram and 20gb
<tezogmix> There is a free personal non-commercial version of vmware
<daftykins> either that or it just detects whatever speed test you're using and boosts it :D
<daftykins> hmm don't think that's ws then
<daftykins> currently on their site
<tezogmix> it is...https://my.vmware.com/en/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_workstation_player/14_0
<tezogmix> vmware workstation player - it has to be updated to 14.1 to be protected from the meltdown patch
<daftykins> yeah, player isn't full workstation, knew that :)
<tezogmix> https://www.vmware.com/security/advisories/VMSA-2018-0003.html + https://www.vmware.com/security/advisories/VMSA-2018-0002.html >>
<daftykins> you're oversharing
<tezogmix> ah ok daftykins , sorry for the nomenclature :)
<daftykins> also overexplaining
<daftykins> so does the throughput really matter?
<tezogmix> so back to the ubuntu , now that I have it... kind of cool to have and figured I will keep it to just start using more...
<tezogmix> it does for my use cases, ideally would like to achieve ~200Mbps+ on vpn for single large file size transfers to home...
<daftykins> 'transfers' :)
<tezogmix> I've been ok with 100Mbps but since it appears the ISP/vpn can both handle higher and my hdd can handle a little bit more on the write/read speeds, it would be cool.
<daftykins> heh of course an HDD can handle hundreds of megabits
<tezogmix> So there I came across pfsense options but before that, apparently, there's some custom firmware for my asus router which might be able to achieve this and allow group policies on assigning certain static IP's to use/not use vpn.
<tezogmix> ah my limitation is usb 2.0
<tezogmix> and an 8 year old laptop
<lotuspsychje> tezogmix: try to build a conversation instead of spam too many details
<daftykins> yeah i use the same kind of conditional routing with a pfsense device for a client's holiday home
<lotuspsychje> listen/reply is very nice
<daftykins> external HDD, blech
<tezogmix> most pfsense openvpn discussions I've come across briefly for folks trying to achieve higher thoroughput (e.g. near gigabit vpn), was in the context of grouped gateways to overcome the single thread limitations of openvpn itself and to saturate the connection that way.
<tezogmix> ah sorry lotuspsychje - will try better...
<daftykins> well, off topic for here... i'd question the use of a VPN if gigabit throughput is desired
<tezogmix> how protected are we with the latest news vulnerabilities with running ubuntu lts within the vmware?
<tezogmix> provided we're visiting https sites and have our distribution and vmware/host OS updates as best possible...
<lotuspsychje> tezogmix: your system up to date is one thing
<lotuspsychje> tezogmix: but who can look into the future what exploits to come?
<lotuspsychje> tezogmix: perhaps we all affected of something new already?
<lotuspsychje> security is complex
<tezogmix> that's a good point... up until now, intel has been good with patching things (e.g. AMT/ME) but if they are only going back to updating cpu's from up to 5 years from their intel newsroom announcements, I wonder...
<lotuspsychje> so many techniques out there to harm/exploit systems
<tezogmix> that's very true lotuspsychje and how vulnerable as a target and what the end user is doing/where they are bridges into more multifactor considerations...
<daftykins> you're certainly unlikely to see any BIOS update for a sandybridge CPU i would imagine, but that's assuming any firmware level update is going to appear
<tezogmix> so let's say you had a sandybridge CPU daftykins and based on your current uses and news events, how would you proceed on using that machine?
<tezogmix> in terms of security mindfulness ^^
<daftykins> given i don't wear a tinfoil hat like a lot of freenode users? apply the host OS patches as and when available and carry on living my life, not being consumed by sensational news reporting
<tezogmix> ah ok :) I do get your latter comment in that how wild and aggressive this would have to be... most of what we are seeing are proof of concept/work over real-world and broad.
<daftykins> continuing to run 7 would be unwise though this year, as MS already put focus on patching 10 sooner than they do 7 now
<daftykins> so that's the real security angle for the host part in your scenario
<tezogmix> That's true as well daftykins , I've been riding the EOL aspects of that (I believe 2020 but it's inevitable that if I ever plan to use windows OS as a component, I'll have to upgrade) - I'm a medical student and a lot of of our health care related aspects revolve around windows
<daftykins> where in the world are you? i've a few doctor friends up in England who get to enjoy the outdated nature of things up there
<tezogmix> I'm in the States...
<TJ-> We'll all end up running qemu-static-powerpc virtual machines just to prevent the native x86 attacks :p
<TJ-> or should that be -mips ?
<daftykins> no thanks (:
<daftykins> i wonder if these lawsuits on intel will go anywhere
<tezogmix> QEMU, interesting you mentioned this T3, I think I saw a discussion that virtualbox software had that implementation feature still (vmware doesn't) -
<tezogmix> I'm doubtful on that daftykins , this is decades of utilization without a revelation up until now...
<daftykins> did you miss out on getting the free upgrade to 10 from 7? it's allegedly over now
<daftykins> i converted my clients licenses before time by taking spare hard disks around and doing the installs just far enough to activate online, then left them on their current setups until we're ready to move them
<tezogmix> oh I opted out of that, I had one of those freeware GWX control panels doing its very best at removing every nature of w10 coming through - this was really a personal choice
<daftykins> i'm detecting a tinfoil hat there
<tezogmix> hehe, not a tinfoil but more so that I didn't want a store front/apps and the like such as cortana on my OS... feels like win7 is the last of its line for that. Fortunately, it does seem a bit better on community driven interventions on minimizing how MS deploys those embedded features... there's also MS10 LTSB
<tezogmix> Not that win7 didn't have its things but at least it was much more subtle and in the background
<daftykins> the times, they are a-changin'
<daftykins> most grips can be avoided, the main benefit is maintaining timely support
<tezogmix> and how for example companies/businesses and the like opt to subscribe to that support (e.g. our health care systems have IT support infrastructure at the lowest of its budget expenses and therein a problem)
<daftykins> not sure what you mean there, healthcare would be held back on OS versions to retain support of old web apps and/or software
<tezogmix> right, I meant we have lots of problems with how the hospitals budget software support (they cancel/don't renew) - then when problems happen, it's a huge mess to fix...
<daftykins> ah well, not relevant to an OS really
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<daftykins> toodles \o
<lotuspsychje> cheers daftykins
<lotuspsychje> bye all
<dax> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown got updated
<dax> "2018 Jan 07: Candidate kernels are beginning to be made available for testing at ppa:canonical-kernel-team/pti. This initial round will address CVE-2017-5754. A subsequent round will then address CVE-2017-5715 and CVE-2017-5753." --> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ubuntu/pti/
<dax> (i'm not updating the factoid because they're testing builds, and thus not appropriate for most #ubuntu users)
<TJ-> good plan :)
<TJ-> ouch!! using add-apt-repository got "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found."
<dax> page got updated again
<dax> "This initial round will address CVE-2017-5754 (aka Meltdown or Variant 3) for x86_64. We will address CVE-2017-5715 and CVE-2017-5753 (aka Spectre or Variant 1 & 2) in a subsequent round. We will also address additional architectures in subsequent rounds."
<dax> so that explains kirtland's blog post too :)
<dax> kirkland*
<dax> i have a feeling that come kernel patch release day i'm going to need to split into !meltdown and !spectre just to avoid the factoid length limit -_-
<TJ-> and !spectre-variant1, 2 3 :)
<JanC> there are infinite Spectre variants
