#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-22
<billytwowilly> Either this channel isn't very lively or only religious people that rest on Sunday are into mobile linux;)
<StevenK> It could be both... ;-)
<billytwowilly> heh.
<billytwowilly> well, off to the airport to pick up my gf. Cheers.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> good morning
<nrpil> goodmorning
<Pc_Madness> ello :)
<smagoun> agoliveira_lunch: ping
<agoliveira> smagoun: pong
<smagoun> agoliveira: Did you ever the camera webcam working on your Q1?
<agoliveira> smagoun: No. There's no driver for the camera.
<agoliveira> smagoun: I want to get into it and write it but didin't have the time yet.
<smagoun> It's a Ricoh R5U870, right?
<smagoun> Apparently there's a driver here, though the site seems to be down: http://lsb.blogdns.net/ry5u870
<agoliveira> smagoun: IIRC, it's not ricoh but something from vimicro. Bob Spencer (Intel) even contacted some guy from there about it.
<hendrixski> hey, the links on the top seem kind of dated... is there a release of the mobile edition that I can download and run in a VM?
<ian_brasil> it is a shame there nothing mobile related on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/ 
<smagoun> ToddBrandt: ping
<ToddBrandt> smagoun: pong
<smagoun> ToddBrandt: I understand you have a workaround for bug #152893 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152893 in moblin-ui-framework "The control panel applets â screen resolution: can make X restart" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152893
<smagoun> (X restart when accessing control panels)
<ToddBrandt> smagoun: actually the temporary workaround was just to remove the screen resolution dialog from the control panel
<ToddBrandt> I haven't investigated the bug yet as I have higher priority issues on my plate, do you want me to escalate it?
<smagoun> ToddBrandt: do you have a patch for the control panel? That would be helpful. No need to escalate though.
<ToddBrandt> smagoun: the latest moblin-applets (the one in gutsy), version 0.10, should have screen resolution removed
<ToddBrandt> which one are you working with?
<smagoun> great, thanks!
<ToddBrandt> k
<smagoun> we have 0.11. I'm just chasing down an old email thread from my boss
<smagoun> sounds like we're all set then
<ToddBrandt> yea, 0.11 is even better (and 0.12 will be out today and will have even more fixes)
<ian_brasil> #155927 
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: You mean bug #155927?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155927 in moblin-applets "cannot enable assistive technologies in ubuntu mobile" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155927
<agoliveira> :)
<ian_brasil> good job you are around
 * agoliveira is obotu backup
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-23
<jpan_> robr, ping
<robr> jpan_: pong
<jpan_> robr, do you know how do we generate modules.dep file for each kernel?
<robr> jpan_: this a #moblin topic, but image-creator runs depmods at target image creation time for each kernel installed into /boot
<jpan_> robr, it seems modules.dep file is different than what i run depmod -a on the target fs
<robr> jpan_: how so?
<jpan_> robr, let me double check. but i put the new psb.ko in with dependecy on firmware class then i recreate a new image, the modules.dep does not show that new dependency.
<jpan_> robr, so it should rerun depmod each time i create a new image, right?
<robr> jpan_: that is correct ... this sounds like the same problem that rustyl ran into
<rustyl> what are we talking about?
<robr> rustyl: did you ever figure out the issue with depmod that you were seeing where the module dependencies were not getting updated?
<robr> rustyl: read jpan_  's comments above
<jpan_> robr, rustyl , the problem is that modules.dep is not updated when i create a new image with a newly loaded kernel driver.
<rustyl> robr, i fixed a bug where we were updating the project root instead of the target root
<rustyl> this is handled at image creation time
<robr> jpan_: are you using the latest and greatest image-creator?
<jpan_> robr, mine is sometime last week of days old
<jpan_> robr, i will update to the latest and try again
<robr> jpan_: rusty's fix has been there for a couple of weeks...but update to the latest and see if this fixes the issue
<dholbach> good morning
<simoncpu> hello
<simoncpu> Have you guys had any luck running with WPA on iPAQ H5550?
<Mithrandir> I don't think anybody has tried to do anything on the iPAQs at all.
<Mithrandir> they're ARM-based, aren't they?
<simoncpu> yepp yepp
<simoncpu> i'm actually using familiar linux on my ipaq, but familiar's support channel seems to be very quiet
<simoncpu> hehehe
<Mithrandir> people keep asking about ARM stuff, but nobody has so far picked up the challenge to begin porting to ARM.
<Mithrandir> we're targetting lpia initially.
<simoncpu> do you guys use openembedded build env too?
<Mithrandir> no
<Mithrandir> we use Ubuntu packages
<simoncpu> ubuntu mobile looks very promising
<simoncpu> i hope i can play with it on my ipaq later
<simoncpu> hehe
<smagoun> debian n00b question: can I rename a package simply by changing the package name in the control + changelog files? I don't care if it installs cleanly over an old version.
<smagoun> Mithrandir: ping
<ian_brasil> smagoun: you will need the orig.tar.gz and then run dh_make ..make your changes then run debuild -S -sa ..i might be mistaken on this however
<smagoun> ian_brasil: I don't have an orig.tar.gz (it's a 'native' package I think?).
<ian_brasil> can't you apt-get source?
<smagoun> I'm the upstream for the package (it's only a handful of files), so I just have a bzr project with the files and a debian subdirectory. I build directly from there
<ian_brasil> move the debian folder somewhere else and then run dh_make ?
<ian_brasil> this will create the 5 files you need copyright, control, rules, and changelog
<jonnylamb> smagoun: Are you sure you want to rename the source package, and not the binary package?
<smagoun> ian_brasil: So I can't just use sed to update my existing debian dir?
<smagoun> jonnylamb: Eventually I want to rename everything, bzr repo included. binary is most interesting to me at this point though
<jonnylamb> If you just want to change the binary package name then change the appropriate entry in control.
<smagoun> jonnylamb: ok, that's what I hoped. I assume I need to update the package name in the changelog too
<jonnylamb> Nope. Make sure you change "Package: foo" and not "Source: foo".
<jonnylamb> A source package can be "bananadotcom", and still contain binary packages called "libc6"..
<smagoun> so the changelog keys off source package. gotcha.
<jonnylamb> Jep.
<smagoun> supposing I did want to rename the source package as well, I would change the changelog and Source: in control?
<jonnylamb> ..of course my example would be just wrong though.
<smagoun> :)
<jonnylamb> Well, you should only have to change "Source: foo" and the changelog entry, but there might be some other stuff in the debian/ directory that needs changing. grep is your friend though.
<smagoun> yup
<smagoun> thanks for the help
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-24
<bicchi> I would like to know if the webcam works on the Samsung Q1 with Linux?
<mjg59> No
<bicchi> mjg59: Really I have been trying to configure it for the pass 2 hours.
<dholbach> good morning
<asac_> Mithrandir: i have a request to update midbrowser .desktop file ... where should fixes go to now? do we have a ppa ... or just hardy?
<Mithrandir> asac: we have a ppa, but we don't have lpia buildds yet.  You should be able to upload to the ppa
<StevenK> I wonder if that's on the cards.
<asac> Mithrandir: ok ... i will try
<Mithrandir> StevenK: I have a ticket in for it.
<mdz> Mithrandir: I prioritized that ticket, right?
<mdz> yep, I did
<Mithrandir> mdz: you did, yes.
<mdz> status was updated yesterday, due date is next Wednesday
<Mithrandir> ok, sounds fine to me.
<dantalizing> morning all....
<dantalizing> so I'm perusing a linux format or linux pro or some magazine where they make mention of the ubuntu-mobile project, and along with the blurb is a pic of the n800 with an "ubuntu" screen...ie brown bg, top & bottom menu bars.... does UME work on n800s?  I cant find any reference on the wiki other than maemo as a related project.....
<mjg59> Not currently, no
<mjg59> Ubuntu Mobile doesn't look like that, anyway :)
<dantalizing> thats why i was confused
<dantalizing> and i just found the faq...sorry..should have rtfm
<bspencer> Mithrandir:   I'll be 10mins late to our meeting htis morning.  FYI
<davidm> bspencer, Mithrandir will not be attending prior commitments, though he may catch a few minutes I"m not sure.
<davidm> OK, we are about to start the Mobile community meeting
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:01. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> Morning Don ood timing I've started the meeting.
<davidm> s/ood/good/
<Don_Johnson> Good morning
<davidm> bspencer, said he would be about 10 minutes late.
<rustyl> morning
<davidm> [TOPIC] Action items from last week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action items from last week 
<davidm> good morning rustyl 
<davidm> Just starting the meeting.
<davidm> Don_Johnson, who else are we expecting? Do you know?
<Don_Johnson> I don't know who else to expect at this meeting.
<davidm> With the day change it could be quite empty I think.
<Don_Johnson> I thougth Kyle might want to grill me on USB Client.  But so far he does not appear to be on
<davidm> Well I'll lead off then.
<smagoun> Don_Johnson: I can grill you in Kyle's place
<kyleN> hi
<Don_Johnson> I don't know much, but if you explain the problems I'll try to get answers
<kyleN> smagoun: please go ahead if you like
<davidm> Last week we had an action for Mithrandir which was: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. (carried forward): In progress: Waiting for IS to set up, got preempted by the 7.10 release.
 * HappyCamp_laptop is here, I do the Moblin Image Creator
<HappyCamp_laptop> s/the//
<davidm> We expect to have the download area in place by next Thursday if not EOD Wednesday.
<kyleN> I am asking about the basic use case of plugging the MID into a PC and sharing files to the PC in order to back up the MID data
<kyleN> my question is whether the USB client work is expecting to accomplish this
<davidm> kyleN, please add your question to the agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071024
<kyleN> one issue may be that incompatibility in file systems: ext3 on MID vs FAT on PC
<kyleN> sorry, i though Don asked
<Don_Johnson> kyleN, OK, I'll ask the developers
<rustyl> Don_Johnson, unless something changed, all your guys were delivering were the gadget drivers
<rustyl> which means you would be able to represent a mass storage device
<Don_Johnson> The release notes talk about "Utilities" DHCP and Samba.  So it sounds like something changed
<Don_Johnson> davidm, Please give me an AR to follow up on USB Client utilities etc.
<rustyl> i suspect that is talking about what happens on the host side
<kyleN> perhaps the core and mobile teams can say whether they think the use case I describe is critical
<davidm> [Action] Don_Johnson to follow up on USB Client utilities etc.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Don_Johnson to follow up on USB Client utilities etc. 
<davidm> The next open action is: lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week.
<davidm> lool, status?
<lool> So I tried looking into the hildon-desktop issue which seems to be some bad interaction of the new hildon-desktop with the old themes/engines/configs we're using; I've updated hildon-theme-layout-4 and hildon-theme-plankton and started looking at all issues I get in .xsession-errors one by one
<lool> The broken look of hildon-desktop does change, but it's still completely unusable; I also tried using plankton instead of umebasic (hence the update) to no luck
<davidm> lool, what are your next steps?
<lool> I'm currently stracing the thing and I'm learning a lot on how hildon-desktop works internally in the process, such as using the cached config in the home of the end-user and using a stamp file to detect its crashes and disable some config
<lool> I'm currently trying to solve all warnings I get and the next ones on my list are why the engine can't find its pixmaps and then why there are some negative widget sizes allocations being logged
<lool> I expect the images are the biggest problem with the display of hildon-desktop
<davidm> OK, sounds like the action is to continue the prior action?
<lool> So frankly, I don't feel like I've been making a lot of progress, and don't know how much time I'll need to solve the issues; yes, simply keeping the action as it is seems best
<lool> Or rather rename to "Cursed action: ..."
<davidm> [action] lool to continue looking at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to continue looking at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week. 
<bspencer> lool: I'll try to provide some help
<davidm> The next open action was: "Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes."
<lool> bspencer: That's nice of you, thanks
<bspencer> davidm: still an open action
<davidm> OK
<bspencer> we haven't done it yet
<davidm> [action] Carry forward the action -> Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Carry forward the action -> Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. 
<davidm> The next open action was: "bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages"
<bspencer> lucasr suggested a configuration option that allows all plugins to be used
<bspencer> and also suggested that for advanced placement we could implement a policy
<bspencer> and associate the policy with the marquee
<bspencer> he didn't bite at the idea of having a "plugins.d" subdirectory
<lool> bspencer: (I think there's a commented out example on how to do this in the upstream default config; not sure whether there's also example code for the policy)
<bspencer> so I will follow his advice and use the "accept all plugins" option, and investigate the policy idea further for the future
<bspencer> lool: right.  I recall seeing this now that it was mentioned
<bspencer> davidm: along with the ubuntu-branch hildon-desktop review, I'll add this change
<lool> bspencer: There seem to be some policies in hildon-desktop's policies/
<davidm> bspencer, any additional action items I should record?
<bspencer> I don't like action items assigned to me...  but I think the "ubuntu-branch" action I already have covers this ok.
<bspencer> :)
<davidm> OK
<bspencer> lool: right.  I've played with those a little (not too successfully)
<bspencer> does anyone know if Hildon v2.0 was officially released?
<bspencer> they seem to have started tagging, but there is on announcement about their progress.
<bspencer> s/on/no
<lool> bspencer: I /think/ it's part of OS2008 which should be launched with the N810 in november
<bspencer> lool: ok.
<davidm> Are we ready for the next open action?
<bspencer> davidm: yes from my side.
<davidm> The next open action was: "#davidm: Review test place at UDS
<davidm> #
<davidm> davidm, Review UI issues at UDS
<davidm> #
<davidm> davidm, further discussion of Application development and upstream at UDS"
<davidm> which is really three items but they all relate so.....
<davidm> We will have testing and UI issues as topics at UDS.
<davidm> as well as conversations on Application development
<smagoun> davidm: pat_mcgowan has a list of sessions we want to have
<davidm> I've asked him for it but I don't as yet have it.
<smagoun> ok, I'll ping him
<davidm> can you give him a poke?  Thanks.  I'm going to commit the schedule in a couple of hours.
<davidm> We can adjust it but I'd prefer get it as correct as possible the first time.
<smagoun> ok. he's down the hall, we'll make sure he gets it to you today
<davidm> Right now I have ~20 items to be scheduled
<pat_mcgowan> davidm, hi
<davidm> I'm hoping some of his are overlaps to mine.
<davidm> Hi pat_mcgowan 
<davidm> We were just tlking about you  :-)
<pat_mcgowan> I have a list, and I am sure there will be much overlap
<pat_mcgowan> I was planning to send it after the next meeting
<davidm> Can you pop it into email to me? I'm going to commit the schedule today.  Thanks
<pat_mcgowan> will do
<davidm> Perfect
<davidm> [action] pat_mcgowan to send davidm scheduling list.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pat_mcgowan to send davidm scheduling list. 
<bspencer> uds schedule is on a wiki ?  or how is it created?
<davidm> [action] davidm to commit schedule for UDS by Thursday
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to commit schedule for UDS by Thursday 
<davidm> OK, is that it for schedule so far?
<bspencer> is there already a posted schedule, or is there nothing until this action item is done?
<davidm> The next open action was: "davidm, look into what and and how to have status meetings"
<pat_mcgowan> bspencer, it is on a wiki, but no mobile items scheduled yet
<davidm> bspencer, noting until this is done, but I can send you a copy of the items later today.
<davidm> s/noting/nothing/
<bspencer> I can wait ... just want to make sure I'm there at the right places/times
<davidm> Since I'm new I'm working with someone who knows how to get things posted, and I've been holding off for rustyl's input
<bspencer> ok.  I'll ping him about it
<davidm> On the next open issue, we will have IRC access at UDS so I will schedule time for this meeting in the agenda
<davidm> As to the later phone call, I'm working on that one still
<davidm> OK, as to the next open item we got a bit out of sequence earlier :-) but"Don_Johnson to investigate USB client issues."
<kyleN> me bad ;)
<davidm> [action] davidm to figure out issues around Intel call
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to figure out issues around Intel call 
<Don_Johnson> I included the USB client release notes in this week's status report.
<Don_Johnson> And now Kyle has more questions for me to follow up on.
<davidm> kyleN, np, you'll find I'm a bulldog on stuff it will get done :-) I won't forget if it's on my status/wiki page.
<davidm> Don_Johnson, any other action item besides the one already committed?
<Don_Johnson> So next step is to follow up with USB C developers and get a complete description of what they are delivering.
<Don_Johnson> No I don't think there are any additional action items relative to USB C
<davidm> Good enough
<davidm> kyleN, any thing else relating to this old action item?
<kyleN> I'd like the core and mobile teams to chime in at some point re: what functionality they think a MID needs to be succesful
<bspencer> kyleN: for USB in particular?
<kyleN> s/succesful/successful
<kyleN> yes. the basic use case(s)
<bspencer> kyleN: thanks for the spelling correction :P
<bspencer> kyleN: ok.  I have some basic ones related to media syncing
<bspencer> should email to you?
<kyleN> bspencer: the list, if you please
<bspencer> yep
<bspencer> I just meant vs. updating a wiki directly
<smagoun> wiki updates are only good if people know that the wiki was updated
<davidm> Though it's handy if they subscribe to a page, then they get notices.
<davidm> Ok are we ready for the next topic?
<kyleN> I am
<davidm> [topic] Current Items: Testing + running on an 800x480 screen (smagoun)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Current Items: Testing + running on an 800x480 screen (smagoun) 
<davidm> smagoun it's open to you..
<smagoun> we put a recent build onto a device with an 800x480 screen, and there was a lot of broken stuff
<smagoun> Primarily it was things not fitting onscreen
<bspencer> smagoun: home screen mainly?
<smagoun> (dialogs, games, apps in the home plugin, etc)
<Sciri> Mostly apps; dialog boxes taller than the screen.
<Sciri> Wi-Fi config, control panels, etc.
<bspencer> it has been a few weeks since we've worked at that resolution
<smagoun> Since 800x480 is a supported resolution, people need to test their apps at that res
<bspencer> I doubt if ToddBrandt (our control panel guy) has ever tried 800x480
<bspencer> :-\
<smagoun> bspencer: yes, that's the problem :)
<bspencer> smagoun: agree
<pat_mcgowan> I have seen 5-10 requests for proposals, and all have been at this resolution
<bspencer> the devil himself.
<bfiller> can we make ume-start-xephyr default to 800x480?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: we were just discussing how many things don't work on 800x480
<bspencer> bfiller: really?  ... hm..  How about a cmd-line parameter?
<Sciri> Or are there command line switches to launch ume-start-xephyr in different resolutions?
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: I sure don't
<bfiller> bspencer: cmd line would be good
<smagoun> You can edit ume-xephyr-start to do the right thing
<Sciri> bfiller/bspencer: Gary and I were just discussion adding command line resolutions to ume-xephyr-start.
<smagoun> but a default would be better for us (not so good for people on q1s perhaps?)
<bspencer> I'll update to accept a WxH input
<bspencer> I can make the default 800x480 to shake people up
<bspencer> (like myself)
<smagoun> bspencer: thanks, that will be a bit help
<kyleN> bspencer: +1
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: the screen resolution dialog supports 800x600 and 640x480, both of which aren't widescreen and don't look right on t6he samsung, I'll have to investigate how to add 800x480
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: does it have 1024x600 ?
<Sciri> bspencer: That'd be outstanding. :) Force people to at least see it in 800x480 once before they start using the WxH parameter to go back to their favorite resolution. ;)
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: yes, 1024x600 is the default
<smagoun> ToddBrandt: I thought the screen res dialog crashed hildon desktop?
<bspencer> smagoun: details  :)
<ToddBrandt> smagoun: It does and we removed it for aplpha as there were higher priority bugs, but I can fix that crash this week
<smagoun> Do we really need it at all outside of Xephyr? I think it's unlikely MID users will want anything but the device's native resolution
<bspencer> smagoun: not sure a single device will support both at this point
<bspencer> and changing screen res isn't likely to change the Xephyr resolution
<bspencer> (not sure about that...)
<smagoun> right, therefore we don't need the applet at all...right?
<pat_mcgowan> right
<ToddBrandt> smagoun: some of the games might look better in a smaller resolution if they don't support 1024x600
<bspencer> I don't know.
<ToddBrandt> just a thought
<smagoun> ToddBrandt: good thought. The game should do that automatically.
<Sciri> Shouldn't the game do that automatically though? Users aren't going to want to know how to switch resolutions.
<Sciri> Oh...jynx... :)
<bspencer> ok.  we'll chat about it.  Might be useful to find out why it is crashing
<lool> (Some video players do this too (I think mplayer did this for a while when going to full screen); not sure it's a win though)
<bspencer> if we have a good zooming capability (e.g in the browser or text readers) then it isn't needed I think
<bspencer> but on a device like the Sony UX, I use it often when reading 
<bspencer> cause I can't see .01px font
<davidm> need a better magnifying glass? ;-P
<kyleN> again, maybe it's an app level capability
<bspencer> it would be nice to have a system-level zoom feature (wish list)
<davidm> five minute warning. I have another meeting to run to .....
<bspencer> davidm: we're done with this topic  
<davidm> K
<davidm> In that case I added a quick question if there were any UDS attendance changes to topic additions.
<davidm> [topic] UDS  UDS attendance changes or UDS topic additions
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS  UDS attendance changes or UDS topic additions 
<davidm> If there are none then I can close the meeting.
<HappyCamp_laptop> where is the list of UME topics for UDS?
<HappyCamp_laptop> I will be there along with bspencer 
<bspencer> davidm: Intel:  Bob is there Mon-Thu.   I don't know if rusty is coming.  JohnV will be there Sun-Thu.
<HappyCamp_laptop> I am JohnV
<davidm> I can mail a copy of the UDS topics, they will be posted I hope today.
<pat_mcgowan> davidm, I sent you my list
<davidm> I was holding for input from Rusty
<davidm> pat_mcgowan, thanks
<davidm> I'll merge the lists and get them moving along into the queue.  And I'll post them to the mailing list.
<davidm> Any last items?
<rustyl> i'm trying to do the multiple meetings at once thing... as for UDS, i don't have an answer if i will be able to attend yet
<davidm> rustyl, OK, I'll rearrange things as needed if possible if you can attend.
<davidm> If thats it I'll close the meeting.
<davidm> Going once?
<davidm> Twice?
<lool> Thanks
<davidm> Gone
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:02.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-25
<thesysop> hi mobile
<njende> Hi there! I've got some problems getting a HUAWEI USB E220 Easy Box to work. Would/Could anyone of you help?
<mjg59> njende: This channel is for development of the Ubuntu mobile platform, not for support of Ubuntu and mobile phones
<njende> ah, okay!sry
<njende> is there a special channel for ubuntu and mobile devices?
<njende> so, there is none
<mjg59> njende: Not that I know of, I'm afraid
<Blackgoth> is there a supported device list yet?
<mjg59> Samsung Q1 Ultra and Intel Crown Beach development boards.
<Blackgoth> okay :) ill put my htc and hp back then :p
<smagoun> According to strace, launching the home plugin via ume-xephyr-start results in 1462 open() calls on /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache (which doesn't exist). That can't be good.
<kyleN> anyone know whether/how we support input methods for asian and other keyboards?
<bspencer> smagoun: we still don't have the theme and icons issues worked out.  
<bspencer> esp wrt hildon-desktop
<bspencer_> asac, cwong1_  question:  have you guys talked about timing for moving to gecko 1.9?  
<cwong1_> bspencer_: not yet but I have ask jimmy to see if we can build midbrowser code with Firefox 3.0 source
<bspencer_> cwong1_, thanks.
<pat_mcgowan> bspencer, Is moving to gecko 1.9 part of the plan near term?
<bspencer_> pat_mcgowan, "part of the plan" is as soon as we have time to do it, yes
<bspencer_> I thikn FF 3.0 releases a stable version in November
<bspencer_> and I don't know the scope of the work to moving to the new code base.
<pat_mcgowan> bspencer, ok thats good to know, for zooming requirement
<bspencer_> I heard that gecko 1.9 supports some ...
<bspencer_> yes, you said it
<bspencer> pat_mcgowan, have you played with zooming?
<pat_mcgowan> no I have not
<pat_mcgowan> I should
<asac> bspencer: november? that would be a miracle ... there isn't even beta out iirc
<asac> from what i know its more like january when 3.0 will be final ... so in time for hardy
<bspencer> asac, ok.  my comment was based on old info.  I haven't looked at the current status.  
<bspencer> asac, do you have any idea of the scope of moving to FF 3.0 for midbrowser?  
<asac> bspencer: right ... i think november is on some wiki page or something and it hasn't been updated to reflect the truth
<smagoun> FWIW, Firefox betas are generally shippable
<asac> bspencer: i don't think its much work ... its actually doing the same we currently did for the chrome part ... and the hildon backend should just work
<bspencer> asac,  I was thinking of the possibility of setting up a new project for midbrowser w/FF 3.0 that we could start hacking on
<bspencer> one in the hand, one in the bush, so to speak
<asac> bspencer: what are the release plans for UME? will there be a release in the mids of hardy development cycle? or will we release the first UME in synch with hardy?
<asac> if its the latter I would say that we add those few feature that are really needed to 2.0 and then directly go ahead and start developing against 3.0
<bspencer> asac, first /finished/ UME in hardy.  I've heard that there might be an intermediate Feb release for UME alpha/beta? ... I need to defer to others  on that.
<bspencer> so I'm for definately for moving early.
<asac> hmmm sounds a bit like its just following the Ubuntu release cycle ... we have alpha beta releases as well
<pat_mcgowan> yes there are interim releases, and we have some OXM commitments before April
<pat_mcgowan> but they also want the zooming in the browser 
<asac> in any case ... if we are happy with current features of midbrowser, I would vote to put midbrowser from 2.0 branch into "maintenance" mode (e.g. just security updates) and move real development of features to 3.0
<bspencer> major features are all sufficient
<asac> i think the gconf feature should be added to 2.0 ... and maybe panning, but I am not sure how far cwong1_ get with the patch he found somewhere
<bspencer> two things I'd like to fix before jumping...
<bspencer> make icons at the bottom larger  (48x48), and fix the drop-down menu font to match other hildon apps.
<asac> k ... which font is it?
<bspencer> that would make it appear a little more integrated and be able to actually touch the icons with my finger.
<asac> is that set or do you want that to be auto-detected?
<bspencer> asac, cwong1_ and I were looking at the font.  We need to see if I just need to set something else in the theme
<bspencer> it may not be a browser issue.
<bspencer> so let us tinker with it for a day and we'll probably figure it out.   If I change my font on a normal desktop, FF changes appropriately, so I doubt it is FF code. 
<asac> oh really?
<asac> hmm ... if that applies to popups as well, then its certainly a hildon theme issue
<bspencer> lots of popup elements are correctly themed, like button highlight and color
<bspencer> but the button sizes are always small on FF 
<bspencer> s/FF/midbrowser
<bspencer> like "OK" and "Canel" and "Restore Session", etc.  The are short.
<asac> ok ... can you try to verify if something improved in firefox-3.0 ?
<asac> you can just install the firefox-3.0 package in gutsy from universe
<bspencer> asac, I'll ask cwong1_ to check it out
<asac> good
<asac> will you be in boston?
<bspencer> yes, Mon-Thu
<cwong1_> bspencer, asac I have asked jimmy looking into this yesterday
<cwong1_> asac: when u said patch above, did u mean patch to panning?
<asac> cwong1_: yes
<cwong1_> asac: the patch I found was for minimo
<asac> cwong1_: you remember which parts of minimo did it touch? the minimo/ tree? or the gfx/ layout/ tree?
<cwong1_> I believe it was in minimo tree. I will send u that info today
<asac> cwong1_: good ... i will not have time to look into anything until sat or mon ... but maybe open a bug for that
<cwong1_> that's fine
<asac> ok ... so assuming that gconf patch is fine our todo until 2.0 final will be 
<asac> 1. button sizing
<asac> 2. font sizing in menu (probably a hildon theme issue)
<asac> 3. gconf patch
<asac> 4. to-front 
<asac> e.g. raise window
<asac> and if panning is simple add panning as well to 2.0 ... otherwise do that on 3.0
<cwong1_> that pretty much i
<asac> agree?
<cwong1_> yes
<bspencer> icons at the bottom bigger?  Is that part of button sizing?
<bspencer> cwong1_, what do you think about this?  Have you browsed on the Q1 ?
<cwong1_> yes. they are small.
<cwong1_> I will try bigger icons and see if it looks better
<asac> btw, i created a fresh image today for Q1 and somehow i often end up in a state where i cannot switch apps by clicking home button and need to reboot to get in a usable state again. is that known?
<cwong1_> not that I know of. Did you run it on the Q1?
<asac> yes
<asac> thats where i see the issue
<asac> i can reproduce it most reliably when i have a terminal open among other apps ... but already ended up in that state without terminal as well.
<cwong1_> Most likely it is bug.  I will give it a try and report the bug.
<bspencer> asac, yes, that is known
<bspencer> asac, there is aproblem with control panel in the gutsy image that I am trying to get fixed
<bspencer> asac, it kills the wm when you launch it.
<bspencer> you can tell when it happens because the application startup message in the right side loses its border.  Then you are dead.   It is a problem that can be fixed by updating hildon-control-panel
<bspencer> (but not in gutsy yet :(  )
<asac> ah
<asac> is the new hildon-control-panel in ppa ... or where?
<asac> bspencer: ^^ ?
<bspencer> asac, we just narrowed down the area.  hildon-control-panel that works is on moblin.org 
<bspencer> but I've asked our guys if it needs to be
<bspencer> so hopefully I can get it removed from there and the patch pushed up in the next day
<asac> only in git or is there an apt line i should add?
<bspencer> let me get the apt line...
<bspencer> deb http://www.moblin.org/apt gaston
<bspencer> # ap hildon-control-panel
<bspencer> hildon-control-panel:
<bspencer>   Installed: 1:1.9.5-2ubuntu1
<bspencer>   Candidate: 1:1.9.5-2ubuntu1
<bspencer> I think the gutsy version is 1:1.9.5-1ubuntuX  
<asac> ok thanks ... dist-upgrade running :)
<bspencer> we try to keep the delta between moblin and ume as small as possible
<asac> right ... is there a way to disable wifi on Q1 so i can use it during flight?
<asac> or isn't that a problem?
<bspencer> not sure.  iwconfig ... ?
<asac> hmm ... no i meant something like a kill-switch to disable the radio
<bspencer> right.  I don't know.
<asac> ok :)
<asac> maybe in bios then :)
<cwong1_> asac: tell your boos to cough up more $$ so u can get on a flight that support wifi....:)
<asac> cwong1_: hehe :) ... so is it a problem to keep the radio on?
<cwong1_> offically yes.. but I dont think they really affect the plane's electronic
<asac> not being sure sounds dangerous ;)
<cwong1_> Whey I use my laptop on the plane, the wireless is on
<cwong1_> s/whey/when/
<asac> oh
<asac> :)
<asac> how often did you crash?
<cwong1_> none so far.... :)
<asac> i think i will just listen carefully what they say before takeoff :)
<asac> anyway ... i think a mobile device product that doesn't have a hardware killswitch somehow missed an important feature :)
<asac> but then Q1 ships with vista, which isn't really a good mobile OS either ;)
<asac> at least when trying to use my fingers it just fails completely
<asac> ok off ... cu in boston
<cwong1_> asac: 
<asac> ?
<cwong1_> I just sent u the panning info
<cwong1_> asac: Have a safe trip to boston
<asac> cwong1_: ok got that info. thanks carl.
<bspencer> asac, do you have the access you need to setup a new source repository for midbrowser or do you need something from us?
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-26
<robjoski> Is everyone here asleep or something?
<robjoski> Apparently.
<robjoski> hmm, someone else using chatzilla...
<robjoski> I'm getting tired of waiting, when is UME going to be released?
<robjoski> Don't tell me no one knows, Gutsy was released a week ago!
<dougb> i thought UME can be installed already?
<dougb> that the packages are in the repositories
<robjoski> They haven't updated the Wiki for a while...
<dougb> that might be a good thing
<dougb> i know hildon 2.0 is going to be released with OS2008 for the nokia, so maybe they are waiting until that is released
<robjoski> Oh well, bye!
<mypapit> w00t
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-27
<user_> hello
<davidm> Mithrandir, you online now?
<Mithrandir> davidm_: I am now
 * mypapit going to shutdown... bye
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-28
<sodarock_laptop> Anyone in Boston yet?
<sodarock_laptop> anyone in boston yet?
<mypapit> nope
<Mithrandir> yes
<StevenK> I am, too
<sodarock_laptop> Mithrandir: cool, so where are people meeting up at?
<Mithrandir> sodarock_laptop: the hotel; hotel at mit.
<sodarock_laptop> Mithrandir: thanks.
<Mithrandir> third floor
<maxi2> anything new with mobile develop environment?
<mypapit> eh
<maxi2> namely?
<mypapit> nah nothing new
<mypapit> just fooling around with hildon/python
<maxi2> i heard there is team which takes care of mobile kernel?
<sodarock_laptop> maxi2: amit is the guy who does most of the kernel work for UME
<sodarock_laptop> I believe
<sodarock_laptop> Though our guys (moblin.org) do try to push our work to amit
<maxi2> sodarock_laptop: thanks. any docs regarding the mobile kernel
<sodarock_laptop> http://www.moblin.org/
<maxi2> i'll check it out.
<sodarock_laptop> http://www.moblin.org/projects_kernel.php though it is hasn't been updated real recently.
<sodarock_laptop> So not sure if it is out of date or not.  That isn't my area.
<maxi2> i tried to join the team on the launchpad, but it seems no one cares...
<sodarock_laptop> I do the moblin image creator stuff
<Mithrandir> maxi2: people are accepted into the team after they have contributed code, not before.
<sodarock_laptop> Well this is a good channel to make contacts.  
<Mithrandir> well, code, or other contributions.
<sodarock_laptop> I bought them lots of beer and so I got accepted ;)  LOL.
<maxi2> wooo... thats quick channel
<sodarock_laptop> Mithrandir: this network connection doesn't seem to be all that fast here.
<Mithrandir> sodarock_laptop: correct. :-P
<sodarock_laptop> I'm looking forward to going and getting a steak at Ruth's Chris steakhouse tonight! :)  Yum Yum.
<maxi2> looking at mentoring thing on the launchpad, it seems like there is no much taking place in mobile area.
<sodarock_laptop> maxi2: there is a lot going on.  You should subscribe to the ubuntu-mobile mailing list.  Lot of traffic there.  And a lot at the dev@moblin.org mailing list.
<maxi2> i did subscribe ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com, it seems like 2 mail per day.
<sodarock_laptop> Usually I see more than that, but there is a lot of work going on in regards to mobile.
<sodarock_laptop> The dev@moblin.org mailing list is probably a bit more busy.
<maxi2> i will try it out.
<maxi2> done! now bomb me.
<maxi2> i think it not a bad idea to have some kinda IDE with emulators to facilitate the development of mobile apps.
<sodarock_laptop> maxi2: not sure how much traffic there will be this week, since a few of us are either at UDS or other conferences.  Though our kernel guys (moblin.org) are at the office this week.
<maxi2>  sodarock_laptop:  thanks for ur info.  
<sodarock_laptop> no problem.
<maxi2> so u are  based in boston?
<sodarock_laptop> No, I'm based in Oregon.  Though I maybe moving to Boston, for work.  Or maybe moving to Europe for work.  But both of those are aways away in time.
<maxi2> i am currently europe
<sodarock_laptop> maxi2: cool, I want to go over there and work for 1-5 years, and see how I like it.  Not sure which EU country is best for Linux or Python work.
<maxi2> europe is definitively for linux. the city administration in munich in germany, for example, is completely switching to linux.
<sodarock_laptop> I guess I need to learn German :)  Though my former college roommate, who is German, said I could probably be okay not knowing German to get a job in IT.  I assume I would learn it fast enough if I was living in Germany.
<maxi2> well, it depends on where are you going in germany. In big city like munich or berlin etc. you wont have any problem surviving w/o knowing the language.
<maxi2> i am not native german myself. ;=)
<sodarock_laptop> maxi2: well hopefully you know the language now :)
<maxi2> yes. I am now teaching in Uni.
<sodarock_laptop> Hopefully not teach German ;)  That was a joke at College, taking English classes from a non-native English speaker.
<sodarock_laptop> s/teach/teaching/
<maxi2> haha. you right. I am CS guy. so ...
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-20
<persia> Celtiore, Re: bluetooth : did you not get a bluetooth icon at the top of the screen?  lspci and lsusb are usually good ways to check your hardware.
<exaltia> Greetings there
<Exaltia> snif..
<NotTherealexalti> I wish some help about wifi, had an acer aspire one, curently one live "cd" mobile ubuntu intrepid flavor
<NotTherealexalti> drivers loaded, but i don't know how to up the wifi card
<NotTherealexalti> sudo ifconfig ath0 (or wifi0 or wather wifi related names) always tell no such interface
<NotTherealexalti> wathever*
<persia> NotTherealexalti, Have you tried using Network Manager?  There should be an icon in the taskbar.
<NotTherealexalti> let's try it again in this case, i may have missed something
<NotTherealexalti> :)
<NotTherealexalti> wireless tab, i see my Wireless connection 1, created by myself a few moment ago
<persia> Does it have a signal strength?
<NotTherealexalti> not at all
<NotTherealexalti> there is a mention "never" on the same line
<persia> And does selecting it make network manager start spinning trying for a connection?
<persia> Hmm.  I've never seen "never".
<NotTherealexalti> no spinning when selecting it
<NotTherealexalti> shall i remove the ethernet cable to try to force it ?
<persia> You could try that, but no spinning makes me suspicious.  Is this specific to Mobile?
<ogra> can you paste the output of lspci to paste.ubuntu.com
<ogra> ?
<NotTherealexalti> so, let's reconnect that ethernet cable :)
<NotTherealexalti> i can :)
 * ogra is about to go to bed but will take a quick look
<NotTherealexalti> pasted
<ogra> url ?
<NotTherealexalti> paste.ubuntu.com/59936/
<ogra> check with lsmod if ath5k and ath_pci are loaded at the same time, if thats the case, make sure to blacklist one of them (you probably need to find out which by trying) in a file in /etc/modprobe.d
<NotTherealexalti> bingo! they are :)
<ogra> its likely that your device only works with ath_pci
<ogra> so start with blacklisting ath5k
<ogra> if that doesnt work try blacklisting ath_pci instead ;)
 * ogra goes to bed now ...
<NotTherealexalti> thanks a lot
<ogra> :)
<NotTherealexalti> have a sweet night
<NotTherealexalti> persia, do you have an idea if the small wifi led should lit up or not when the driver is correctly enabled ?
<persia> NotTherealexalti, Not at all.  I know it depends on the hardware, and the light works for some people and not for others.
<NotTherealexalti> thanks, so i won't count on it :)
<persia> Well, actually, it should light up, but there might be a bug :)
<NotTherealexalti> can i smash it with an hammer if it doesn't lit up ;)
<NotTherealexalti> hmm... looks like emgent connection suffered my hammer too ;)
<NotTherealexalti> hm...
<NotTherealexalti> what could be interface "pan0" reported by iwconfig
<NotTherealexalti> eureka
<NotTherealexalti> !!!
<NotTherealexalti> persia, are u stil lthere ?
<persia> NotTherealexalti, I wasn't, but I'm back now.  pan0 is bluetooth.
<NotTherealexalti> may be an useless driver loaded, there should be no bluetooth on this computer :)
<NotTherealexalti> btw
<NotTherealexalti> it worked fine
<NotTherealexalti> the light never lit up
<NotTherealexalti> but
<NotTherealexalti> the correct driver was ath5k
<persia> Glad to hear you got it working.  Are you sure you have no bluetooth?
 * persia tests
<NotTherealexalti> then i was suddently disconnected, keeping from being asked the wep key, keeping entering it, not working anymore
<NotTherealexalti> even with a reboot now it won't work
<NotTherealexalti> and for bluetooth, i will check, later , this is not an emergency questio n:p
<persia> You may be right : Oddly pan0 doesn't seem to go away when I remove my bluetooth adapter.
<NotTherealexalti> :)
<NotTherealexalti> very strange
<NotTherealexalti> shutdowned
<NotTherealexalti> removed the battery, restarted, wifi wirk azgain
<NotTherealexalti> work
<NotTherealexalti> soorry for mistake, betbook is in my other hand
<NotTherealexalti> thanks for all your help
<stgraber> persia: ping
<NotTherealexalti> humpf, bug occured again :(
<persia> stgraber, It's very high on my list.
<stgraber> persia: cool, thanks :)
 * NCommander pops in
<persia> NCommander, Where's that bug about the username in ubuntu-mid-default-settings?
<persia> I'll file if you haven't, but I want to reference the number.
<NCommander> I found it
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> I filed
<NCommander> as soon as LP decides to load ...
<NCommander>  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/285508
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285508 in ubuntu-mobile "User ubuntu must be present for MID install to work" [Undecided,New] 
<persia> Bah.  Wrong project.  No source.
 * persia moves
 * NCommander whistles innocently
<persia> If you actually use the deliverable from that project, the bug doesn't exist, because the ubuntu user is part of the image copied onto the hard drive.
<persia> Best practice for filing Ubuntu bugs is to file against the Ubuntu project, and then if they are also confirmed upstream, they can be added there.
 * NCommander whistles loader
<persia> That particular upstream project is mostly dormant, and is unlikely to have other than bugfix releases.
<NCommander> Point taken
<persia> No problem really : it's fairly confusing for that project to exist :)
<NCommander> persia, you aren't on SRU, are you?
 * NCommander can't remember
<persia> No.
<persia> (and I suspect -motu is a better channel to find motu-SRU people)
<NCommander> Right, sorry, just woke up
<Celtiore> hi persiq
<Celtiore> persia 
<persia> Bye Celtiore :)
<Celtiore> how can i have 800*480 screen size, the ubntu mobile only give me 640*480
<persia> Celtiore, You have a poulsbo graphics card, and you're running the vesa driver.
<persia> I don't think there's any easy way to do it : you might be able to create a modeline for xorg.conf, which might help.
<Celtiore> ok
<Celtiore> i try all later
<persia> The vesa driver could be adjusted to also try 800x480 and 1024x600 (has the same issue, but at 800x600), but that's maybe more difficult.
<Celtiore> but the current versio start correctly the dispaly :p
<persia> Yep.  It's a known regression.  The pouslbo driver doesn't work with the kernel and X in intrepid.
<Celtiore> ok
<crevette> hello
<persia> crevette, Hey.  How are you this morning?
<crevette> hello persia, honneslty I'ml really tired, I'm back now at work after 15 days off
<crevette> and having a  baby 
<crevette> and having a 1,5 baby is not easy, when you have to feed during the night :)
<persia> Back at work already!  You must be even more tired now.
<crevette> but anyway, I'm fine
<Celtiorus> hi
<Celtiorus> i have a question concerning ume and aigo mid
<Celtiorus> i start the live usb, and copy from usb the /lib/firmware/mrvl with 4 .bin files
<Celtiorus> to start wifi
<persia> OK.
<Celtiorus> but i don't know how to execute the sd8686.bi ?
<Celtiorus> n
<Celtiorus> it is : modprobe sd8686 ?
<Celtiorus> or perhaps can i start a wifi manager directly from the current intrepid :p
<persia> asac, Any ideas?
<asac> what is .bi? a firmware?
<Celtiorus> yes
<stgraber> persia, ogra: I plan to do the update (well, write the SQL and send it to the sysadmins) during my lunch break, that leaves you 4 hours to add your changes to the wiki.
<asac> Celtiorus: why do you want to execute that?
<asac> Celtiorus: you probably have to modprobe your driver module 
<asac> yes.
<Celtiorus> with aigo mid p8860 we don't have wifi enable with the last current intrepid
<asac> not sure. thats marvell right?
<Celtiorus> yes
<asac> whats the marvel driver module name?
<asac> and do you see that its loaded in lsmod?
<Celtiorus> i have 4 files : helper_sd.bin / helper_sd8686.bin sd8686.bin sd8688.bin
<asac> persia: you should ask tonyespy about marvel. i have no clue where the module is shipped
<Celtiorus> lspci : http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/src-5617
<persia> asac, Celtiore has the module : just doesn't know how to insert it.
<persia> Celtiore, You might try catching tonyespy here in 2-3 hours.
<Celtiore> lsmod : http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/src-5618
<Celtiore> lsmod : http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/src-5618
<Celtiore> oups sorry
<Celtiore> don't find :( i prefer ask tonyespy :) :)
<ogra> stgraber, hrm, there are no testcases for ubuntu-mobile at all ? can you just point users to the desktop testcases for it ? 
<ogra> (its identical apart from touchscreen support and ui layout of the desktop)
 * ogra only sees -mid tests listed there 
<persia> And all the -mid test cases are fairly pointless.
<persia> (and who knows if they work : there's been a bunch of SW changse)
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/LiveCDInstall is the entirely of the interesting set of tests.
 * persia edits and does that.
<persia> Bah.  Wiki edit crashed :(
<persia> ogra, If you want to arrange testing for touchscreens, you'll want to write something up.
<ogra> hmm
<persia> I only care that the images are available and can be installed, and want to verify that on the tracker for RC.
<persia> (and quite possibly for release as well)
 * ogra has a call soon, not sure i can write up everything needed
<ogra> beyond that its a bit odd since it would only cover one driver at all
<ogra> out of 6 plus there are lots of wacom driven devices 
<persia> No point really.
<ogra> yeah, thats what i think
<persia> Also, it's not very Mobile specific.  Doesn't matter if they test on Mobile or something else.
<ogra> right
<persia> Anyway, we'll see.
<ogra> and for the other stuff LiveCD install and desktop tests totally suffice
<ian_brasil_> touch can be implemented using dogtail raw_input press and release
<ogra> right, i dont think we need a special community page for the one driver we support atm
<ogra> if we have generalized touchscreen support in jaunty that covers all of the devices it makes more sense to have a dedicated test case
<persia> ian_brasil, Well, only for automated tests.  Most humans don't handly dogtail guidance well :)
<ian_brasil_> persia: sorry i thought this was for automated testing!..my point is that as far as dogtail is concerned there is no difference between a mouse and a finger (at least in procedural mode)
<persia> ian_brasil, No, we don't have any organised automated testing for either -mobile or -mid right now.
<persia> We've just registered both flavours as testable images, so we'll need to have a few people check each of them for the RC release later in the week.
<persia> This should be an improvement in the future, so we don't have any milestone images that just don't work (as some dailies just don't work).
<persia> tonyespy, Celtiore has some .bin files and is trying to get marvell wifi working on an Aigo MID (Jax10).  Any suggestions?
<Celtiore> hi
<ian_brasil_> persia: i will run some scripts against the rc ..i have never run them in a vm mind you so that will be interesting to test in itself
<persia> ian_brasil, Cool!  It would be lovely to have a proper test framework, and verify stuff cleanly.
<NotTherealexalti> heya there
<ian_brasil_> i think that this would find *lots* of bugs and mean involving upstream quite a lot..not many gnome apps pass dogtail tests for instance (not because they are bad but often the developer does not know how to add the support)
<persia> ian_brasil, That's fine.  More bugs is good.
<persia> No promises on fixing them, but identifying them and tracking them means that we at least have some idea of what needs to be done, and users finding issues can point out which issue they encounter more easily.
<samuel> Hello, I have 'PegasusNotetaker' that very nearly works perfectly with no configuration. After the first click the 'button gets stuck down', as it were
<BUGabundo_work> os version please samuel
<samuel> Ahh, intrepid
<samuel> here's the line from dmesg when I plug the device in
<BUGabundo_work> ubuntu generic?
<BUGabundo_work> ogra: ping
<samuel> [ 2687.417345] usb 1-6: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
<samuel> [ 2687.448489] hiddev98hidraw4: USB HID v1.10 Device [Pegasus Technologies Ltd. NoteTaker FW Ver 3.03] on usb-0000:00:02.0-6
<samuel> [ 2687.476544] input: Pegasus Technologies Ltd. NoteTaker FW Ver 3.03 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:02.0/usb1/1-6/1-6:1.1/input/input8
<samuel> [ 2687.541618] input,hidraw5: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [Pegasus Technologies Ltd. NoteTaker FW Ver 3.03] on usb-0000:00:02.0-6
<samuel> ubuntu generic. But it was upgraded from hardy
<BUGabundo_work> now u have to wait for some DEV to show up... good luck samuel
<samuel> BUGabundo_work: Thanks very much for your help :)
<ogra> the note taker only has proprietary drivers
<samuel> ogra: I didn't know it had any - Pegasus were very unhelpful when I emailed them (well, unhelpful in some ways... good in others...)
<ogra> no way to make it work without getting the driver from the manufacturer ... there is a mandriva based image for the classmate PC that ships it though
<samuel> ogra: but it does... work... to an extent. When I plug it in I can use it as a mouse...
<ogra> so you might be able to extract the binary driver from that, but thats likely to only work with the mandriva kernel as well
<ogra> thats a matter of luck though
<ogra> might be that in intrepid the evdev driver accidentially makes use of the input events
<samuel> Then when I make the first (ie touch pen on the surface) the 'hovering' mode stops working and I acn only use it as a mouse if I keep the pen held down... If I hold in the button on the side then it works again in hover mode but I can 't click
<ogra> though thats a good sign that we could add future support to it
<samuel> ogra: do you know which system is likely to be providing me with the functionality I _do_ have? Cos then I could work out how to start configuring it!
<BUGabundo_work> bye guys... good luck samuel
<samuel> ogra: it works out of the box as a tablet devive on OS X - so it would _seem_ to implement some standard protocol for tablets...
<ogra> all i know about the device is that intel shipped it with the generation 1 of the classmate PC by default and had a driver that supported in in the mandriva image that was preinstalled
<samuel> BUGabundo_work: Thanks :)
<BUGabundo_work> and you ogra could be at #ubuntu+1 more times! lots of people with this kind of questions!
<BUGabundo_work> I keep redirecting them here! lol
<ogra> when i tried to get drivers from the manufacturer or intel for the edubuntu classmate image i didnt get anywhere 
<samuel> ogra: yea - I foun that out too - but I _think_ that was an earlier version of the note-taker that didn't have the detachable mode
<ogra> BUGabundo_work, well, i'm trying to get pre-release work done as well :) 
<BUGabundo_work> eheheeh
<BUGabundo_work> to much noise there, right?
<samuel> ogra: They are getting Linux tools developed, I do know that...
<samuel> ogra: would the dmesg lines tell you which driver was being used for it?
<ogra> well, i'm in about 30 channels on two servers and have several PM windows open pretty constantly :)
<BUGabundo_work> xiiii
<BUGabundo_work> 2 servers here, 4 #
<samuel> [ 2687.541618] input,hidraw5: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [Pegasus Technologies Ltd. NoteTaker FW Ver 3.03] on usb-0000:00:02.0-6
<BUGabundo_work> plus 3 IM bots from jaiku and identica
<ogra> samuel, lshal to a pastebin would be intresting, the dmesg part just shows the kenel driver (usbhid apparently) hal shows the X driver
<samuel> great. Will do so :)
<ogra> i' assuming that will be evdev which doesnt know how to handle all the input events it gets
<ogra> ony parts of them
<ogra> *only
<samuel> http://pastebin.com/m1f4d3848
<samuel> ogra: I tried using xev and hitting the events but I need to set up a clamp or somthing so I can clcik the buttons without filling the output with noise from moving the pen!
<samuel> ogra: I take it there isn't any standard tablet config app to configure click, tap, etc behaviour of tablets?
<ogra> line 1980
<ogra> input.x11_driver = 'evdev'  (string)
<ogra> there you go
<ogra> make evdev understand all the events and it might work 
<samuel> ogra: thanks... I'll do some more googling :)
<samuel> by 'make evdev' are we talking patches or config files?
<ogra> best is to file a bug against xserver-xorg-input-evdev and attach lshal, dmesg and lsusb to it
<ogra> not sure tht will make intrepid though, release is in 10 days, the archive is pretty deep frozen already
<samuel> Thanks. I will do that. Is there a way I can log the events that it will send so someone can see if they are all supported or not?
<samuel> ogra: wasn't expecting that! I wasn't expecting it to work at all, to be honest!
<ogra> well, xev might be your pest bet for a start
<samuel> ogra: is the bug perhaps better filed upstream?
<ogra> i guess our xorg guys can tell you more in the bug replies
<ogra> they will forward where appropriate
<ogra> file it for ubuntu for now
<samuel> okie. Thanks for your help. I'll file the bugs and have a play.
<ogra> it not really a device mobile usually has to do with 
 * ogra would have liked to tell that to BUGabundo_work, but he left already ... i think he mistook it for y touchscreen
<samuel> ogra: I know, but I would think that as these things are getting cheaper and now that their conversion tools are getting linux support isn't likely to become a rather strong netbook companion?
<samuel> that is what I'm testing it for
<samuel> ogra: I did try and point out it wasn't a tablet pc :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> well, i know i have one of these things lying around somewhere, i'll do some testing myself so we can probably get suport into jaunty 
<samuel> for example Vision Objects (who develop a good handwriting recognition engine) are all QTified as faras I can tell, and offer Linux SDKs. I just can't afford one
<samuel> also their tools run under Wine, reasonably well...
<ogra> tough i rather see it as a toy ... if your netbook has a convertible touchscreen you are likely rather drawing and writing on it directly
<ogra> saves a lot of trees :)
<samuel> ogra: this thing comes with a stylus tip for the pen :)
<ogra> for handwriting input try our cellwriter
<ogra> *out
<ogra> though thats still rather letter by letter handwriting recognition ... not out of fluid text from paper
<samuel> I have tried it, but I think using some of the tools from Paragraph and Phatware have polluted my mind and I want to write cursively
<samuel> Have any of you looked into LipiTk
<samuel> that HP are writing/working
<samuel> on
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> i will likely look into such apps in jaunty 
<samuel> ogra: cool - is it you or is there team working on this?
<ogra> the mobile tem is working on touchscreen based devices
<ogra> *team
<ogra> i'm part of that team 
<ogra> and indeed we're happy about any kind of contribution ;)
<ogra> so if you have knowledge of free software that works we'd appreciate any help ;)
 * persia notes that anyone who has a good handwriting program, and wants to work to make it work well in Ubuntu is more than welcome to do so.  Which is the default for Ubuntu Mobile is largely up to ogra, unless we all decide he's wrong.
<samuel> Well, I've been looking into this for a while. And the best I can see is actually Vision Objects running under Wine :S
<samuel> Which hassajor, functionality crushing bug... :S So it isn't really the best, but it does show most promise. Not/never free though, I would guess
<persia> Yeah, but that requires installing wine, which is fairly big.
<samuel> yea, for sure. Though when I talket to VisionObjects they said they had a Linux version on the way - and as I said, it is all QT as far assI can see. The text import/export from the 'HWR window' will probably be Win32 API but I know that the enso (I'm sure among millions of others) have system on linux for sending text to the active window...
<samuel> wow, sorry about typing accuracy! *talked, *as I can see, *
<samuel> Do you guys do the mobile UI stuff too?
<persia> samuel, Well, people here tend to work on selection of the packages that go into the -mobile and -mid flavours, and troubleshoot bugs encountered there.  Most of the work on the individual applications happens by the teams that work on those applications, although we sometimes help.
<samuel> persia - is there a mailing list I can lurk on? I don't have time to _do_ much but lurking is always informative...
<ogra> <ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com>
<ogra> i occasionally blog about improvements and changes on planet.ubuntu.com as well
<persia> And there's chatter here, but most of it leaks out elsewhere over time.
<samuel> Ahh, I thought it would be done through joining teams in Launchpad - didn't look at the mailists - sorry that was obvious!
<ogra> yeah, this channel is the real time stuff, the ML is the out of realtime things and the blogging is the sumaries :)
<samuel> I am 'Who (mailforwho) normally/on Launchpad - I'm actaully testing this on someone else's box and fired up Xchat without thinking!
<ogra> are you in the ubuntu-art team ? 
<samuel> ogra: yea - if you can call it that ;) I have been idle for far to long there - too much talk and not enough art from me on that list...
<ogra> well, but thats from where i recognize your name then :) i read lots of the artwork ML stuff regulary
<samuel> ogra: Basically in my holidays I have time to do things and in term time I really don't - so mails form me on that list come in bursts!
<ogra> heh
<filipegarcia> ogra: i have a problem in the X configuration
<filipegarcia> i get always loww graphics mode 
<filipegarcia> and (EE) No devices detected
<samuel> ogra, persia: Thanks - I have to do some heavily logging in/out things now (GDM has gone curious on me) and so I will say bye. ogra: I'll submit that bug report soon. Nice to 'meet' you :)
<ogra> thanks for that :) i'll try to find my pegasus clamp :)
<BUGabundo_work> nice to know you got your way samuel
<ogra> BUGabundo_work, well, his device is not really mobile related :)
<ogra> its a radio clamp you put at the top of a piece of paper ... more like a realtime scanner
<BUGabundo_work> its more like touch
<ogra> no
<BUGabundo_work> but if you are not the man for it, ill start pointing people the other way
<ogra> its a radio device that triangulates the position of a special pen 
<BUGabundo_work> ahhh
<BUGabundo_work> didn't know
<samuel> ogra: just for reference mine is an 'Apcom DigiScribble' - might be slightly different hardware :)
<BUGabundo_work> he didn't explain that to me
<BUGabundo_work> lol
<samuel> see you all.
<BUGabundo_work> I have a table like that on the CAD room
<ogra> well, i know the device though its not really typical mobile HW
<BUGabundo_work> they move a special mouse to design or select parts of a design 
<ogra> its not even that big, its like the clamp at the top of a clipboard
<ogra> only the clip
<BUGabundo_work> but don't you work also on toucth stuff?
<ogra> i do
<ogra> but it has not much to do with touch devicess
<BUGabundo_work> so you are the guy to talk too, right?
<BUGabundo_work> ah ok
<ogra> for touchscreen stuff i'm probably the most knowledgeable in the ubuntu dev team atm, yes
<ogra> simply beacuse i looked deeply into that stuff the last months and will do so more in jaunty
<ogra> filipegarcia, i have to rush out soon to do some shopping, probably persia is able to help you
<filipegarcia> ok 
<filipegarcia> persia: can you help me?
<persia> filipegarcia, What are you trying to do?
<filipegarcia> it says tha i'm working in low graphics mode 
<filipegarcia> i would  like to remove that 
<persia> What hardware?  What software?
<BUGabundo_work> he is using ubuntu mobile iinm
<filipegarcia> yes
<filipegarcia> todays image 
<filipegarcia> and a 17" touch screen
<persia> OK.  What video card?
<persia> Which driver does X load?
<filipegarcia> i get (EE) No devices detected
<filipegarcia> humm
<filipegarcia> let me see the video card
<BUGabundo_work> ROLF
 * BUGabundo_work can't stop laughting ubuntu mobile on a 17" screen....
<filipegarcia> ubuntu mobile for a POS :)
 * BUGabundo_work wonders isn't it optimized to 7-9" screens! is filipegarcia mergin two screens lol
<ogra> BUGabundo_work, i got a request on sat, to make it work on a 47" touchscreen 
<BUGabundo_work> eheh I know
 * ogra is really out now though
<BUGabundo_work> bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<BUGabundo_work> 47 " ?
<persia> Well, it depends on the resolution.  If it's only e.g. 1024x768, Mobile might be a good flavour to use on a 47" screen.
<persia> Definitely if it's only 800x600.
<filipegarcia> persia: i have a SIS Mirage 3+ Integrated Graphics 256
<filipegarcia> on a asus motherboard
<persia> Hrm.  I don't even know which driver is supposed to support that card.
<filipegarcia> on 8.10 nonMobile i don't have that problem
<persia> Which driver does non-mobile load?
<filipegarcia> i don't know ...
<persia> Your Xorg.0.log should have the information.
<BUGabundo_work> he is running via live cd 
<filipegarcia> actually i don't have nonmobile know 
<filipegarcia> will try that
<persia> BUGabundo_work, Irrelevant : it works the same either way.
<BUGabundo_work> not that... if he had one version installed "maybe" he had a log on disk
<BUGabundo_work> running livecd/livepen nothing will get stored after reboot
<persia> BUGabundo_work, Well, yeah, but I like fresh boots anyway :)
<persia> Essentially, if it works with Desktop and doesn't work with Mobile, what needs doing is to check which driver is being loaded in Desktop, and make sure that driver is installed when booting Mobile.
<persia> I don't know why anything would fall into this category : it should just work.
<filipegarcia> so i'll try that and get back with the log
<Falsexaltia> Hello, this is the omgwtfbbq ubuntu mobile wifi bug people :)
<Falsexaltia> again ;)
<Falsexaltia> i have lot of errors "failed to set freq to 24XXMhz for scan that and ath5k phy0: ath5k_chan_set: unable to reset channel (24XXMhz)
<Falsexaltia> my comp is 3 bios version different (older) regarding the acer site, could it be the reason ?
<ian_brasil_> the NewHumanMobile theme works like this in that it over-rides the Murrine theme with different settings
<ian_brasil_> and then uses a few gconf settings for the rest
<ian_brasil_> is this a good summary for the workflow
 * Teiana was dumb enough to desactivate the ethernet to wifi bride of my comp who had this irc channel open just after asking something....
<FalseExaltia> could someone tell if something will break if i remove brasero, cdparanoia, ekiga, rhythmbot, transmission*, who remove dependencie ubuntu-mobile ?
<lool> asac: Hey
<lool> asac: Any reason why we would want wireless-tools in the mobile images?
<lool> asac: I understand NM uses wpasupplicant which can do everything that wireless-tools can do, but does so directly via ioctls
<lool> or some lib
<juliux> hi
<asac> lool: i think we dont need it. previously we had hacks in NM that directly used libiw
<asac> lool: but remember that all wireless user space tools will be gone then
<asac> lool: making it harder to debug thing ... though not sure how relevant that is for mobile
<lool> asac: Exactly, I don't see the point of having them by default in what is supposed to be a non-command line environment by its very definition
<lool> asac: thanks for your advice!
<asac> lool: better try. not that i missed something. but afaik 0.7 solely uses wpasupp
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-21
<Celtiore> hi
<Teiana> is there a channel dedicated to ubuntu mobile help or this one is suitable ? i need help once more :)
<persia> Teiana, It's help + development.  Anything Mobile related is fine.  We don't know everything, and if it's not Mobile specific, we might send you to more general Ubuntu channels.
<Teiana> it is mobile specific :)
<Teiana> thanks for the answer persia
<Teiana> so, here i go
<Teiana> does ubuntu mobile support the acer aspire one internal card readers (there is 2)
<persia> I'm going to go with a Maybe on that one :)
<persia> Try one of the intrepid live images (URLs in the /topic) and see.  Just boot off a USB key : it won't affect your machine.
<Teiana> i'm already on intrepid image :)
<Teiana> i AM intrepid ;)
 * Teiana giggles
<persia> OK.  Do the card readers work?
<Teiana> (btw, i installed the intrepid, this machine is suited to be affected)
<Teiana> no automount reaction
<persia> Hmm.  -mid or -mobile?
<Teiana> and i don't know where to search to know how is called the card reader
<Teiana> mobile
<persia> OK.  Do they show up in lspci or lsusb?
<Teiana> no explicit mention of card reader, just lot of pci brider, smbus, isa bride, ide interface (a card is actually present in the reader)
<Teiana> s/brider/bridge
<Teiana> model is acer aspirone A110 (ZG5)
<persia> Hm..  The other thing to check is dmesg, but from your description so far, I think they don't work.
<Teiana> buhuhuh :(
<Teiana> huho
<Teiana> just found a good bunch of Buffer I/O error on device sr0 :s
<Teiana> according to dmesg
<persia> That's not good.  Sounds like you have two bugs to file, instead of just one.
<Teiana> sr0 is the ssd drive isn't it ?
<Teiana> or could it be an external cdrom drive on usb?
<Teiana> in the second case, that's not a bug, that cdrom drive is "tired" and have difficulties reading cdrom
<persia> I actually don't know what /dev/sr* is.  I usually see things as /dev/sd* or /dev/mmc*
<Teiana> lets tail that dmesg and plug that drive :)
<Teiana> i confirm, it is that damn cdrom drive who is called sr0
<Teiana> so let's forgot that buffier I/O error, i think
<persia> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<Teiana> sorry
<persia> Then it's back to one bug.  File the output of lsusb -v and lspci -vvnn to a bug, and report that the card reader isn't working.
<Teiana> ok :)
<persia> Oh, and file the bug against the "linux" package.
<Teiana> the one about ubuntu mobile being uninstalled when i wanted to uninstall the idontknowanymorethepackagename cd burned apps ?
<persia> No, that's not a bug.
<persia> Uninstalling "ubuntu-mobile" shouldn't break your system, unless you let it uninstall lots of other related stuff.
<Teiana> sorry to not understand what you'r talking about that linux package
<persia> However, to have an Ubuntu Mobile system, you need to have ubuntu-mobile installed.  Lots of people run custom systems, but there's no guarantee that upgrades work smoothly between releases.
<Teiana> ok
<persia> When you file the bug about the card reader not working.
<Teiana> ha, ok, i see
<Teiana> bug category :)
<Teiana> time to eat soon, thanks again for the help
<persia> No problem.
<Teiana> could it be a missing option at the kernel compile time ?
<persia> That, or a missing driver.  I think most of the broad types of readers are supported : at least two of the ones in front of me work.
<persia> But I don't do anything other than insert memory cards.
<Teiana> :)
<Teiana> time to eat
<Teiana> nomnomnomnom
<teiana_afk> back
<teiana_afk> and with a surprise Oo
<teiana_afk> persia : i forgot to put the charger on the acer, so it shuted down due to battery power lack, and when powering it up again, tada! my sd card is readed
<persia> teiana_afk, In that case, you don't need to file a bug :)
<persia> Strange that it needs a power event though.  Probably worth fiddling with : I suspect there's some way to make it work better.
<teiana_afk> so it may be due to suspending it who desactivate the reader ? i have the same behavior on another computer, a notebook, standart, 15 inch screen and so one, asap you suspend it, the card reader is unusable until reboot
<persia> Yeah, it would be exactly the same problem.  The suspect/resume isn't sending the right wakeup signal.  You do want to report that then, as it may be possible to fix.
<teiana_afk> wich log do you need?
<persia> Probably just either lspci -vvnn or lsusb -v depending on how the device is connected, and a clear description of the problem.
<teiana_afk> ok :)
<teiana_afk> will be a pleasure to do
<teiana_afk> submission done :)
<persia> Thanks.  Intrepid is so close to release that I don't really expect it to be included, but perhaps for the next release.
<teiana_afk> no problem, this is not, at my eyes, a critical bug
<persia> Well, you have a device that doesn't need it.  I have one device that has only 128MB SSD, and uses an SD card for real storage.  If I had the bug on that device, I'd be extremely frustrated.  (I don't actually run Ubuntu on that device though, so it's a false comparison).
<teiana_afk> as this bug occurs also on this other computer of mine, who is running windows
<persia> Heh.  That might be a hardware problem then, rather than just a kernel issue.
<teiana_afk> you'r true :)
<teiana_afk> i may edit my bug and add that fact ?
<persia> You certainly could, but in case it's actually software problem rather than a hardware problem I wouldn't.  Be better to have a kernel developer look at it.
<teiana_afk> but ubuntu mobile != ubuntu mid ?
<persia> Maybe there's a way to make it work : might just be not suspending that device (making suspend use batter power a little faster).
<persia> Nope.  Two different flavours.  Two different operating environments.
<persia> They're probably about as similar as Ubuntu Desktop and Xubuntu Desktop.
<teiana_afk> ok :)
<teiana_afk> i wished to change the ubuntu logo during the pre X11 loading stage, but i'm not sure if the howto i found about usplash are the way to change it
<teiana_afk> do u have an idea ?
<persia> No, but I can tell you that looking at various other usplash-theme packages is probably the best route to an answer.
<Teiana> thanks :)
<Teiana> now i'm impressed!
<Teiana> even my 3G usb dongle work!
<Teiana> THANKS!
<Teiana> (excepted a little tcp configuration problem :p)
<amitk> ogra: do you know of other mobile devices that use atheros chips for wifi?
<ogra> amitk, eeePC 
<amitk> ogra: they seem to work with ath5k :-/ and even happen to have the same pci id. So we can't comment out that pci id.
<amitk> ogra: do they use the -mobile image?
<amitk> or stock ubuntu?
<persia> amitk, No reason they shouldn't use the -mobile image, but they might use stock.  Switching between the two is trivial post-install.
<ogra> amitk, many do and i think one even commented on the bug seeing the same issues
<amitk> we are in a rock-and-hard-place situation. madwifi works for some and ath5k for others for same pci id :-/
<ogra> yeah
<amitk> ogra: have you already tried lbm on mobile images?
<amitk> tim mentioned he had uploaded a slightly more uptodate ath5k
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> would that be pulled in by meta ? 
<ogra> or do i need to get it manually ? 
<ogra> i'm just writing todays image to USB, i can give you more info within the next 30min
<ogra> but the ML shows that many people seem to have probs with ath5k
<amitk> ogra: not by meta, needs to be done manually
<ogra> ok
 * amitk updates his samsung
<ogra> amitk, ok, seeing todays image ath5k is even loaded *after* ath_pci ... modprobe -r ath_pci kills all networking though
<amitk> ogra: try lbm
<ogra> hard to do without network
<ogra> let me do an install first :)
<ogra> asac, any objections to have a package for drag and grab in jaunty ? 
<ogra> that way i could use normal firefox in -mobile 
<ogra> with drag-n-grab preinstalled in the image 
<asac> ogra: open a wishlist bug against firefox-extensions project in launchpad. someone will package it ;)
<asac> ogra: you dont want to use fennec?
<ogra> asac, well, worst case i'd do it myself ... i really love it on my laptop
<asac> ogra: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/firefox-extensions/+filebug
<asac> ogra: no. please follow that procedure. we have a more or less good extension community so this should happen quite reasonably
<ogra> the fennec version i have tried didnt convince me yet, depends where its at in jaunty
<asac> ogra: if you want to package it, please use our branch mechansims
<ogra> indeed
<asac> ogra: which version did you try?
<asac> ogra: we have a page here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Firefox3Extensions
<ogra> knows tharer are policies for extension packaging ... wouldnt do it without that
<asac> usually we ask users to fill out that table for their extension so we can "auto" package it ;) but in your case we can make an exception
<asac> :)
<ogra> asac, about two months ago on the n800 ... not sure what version that was
<asac> ogra: ok. try the lastest in fta archive.
<asac> its quite nice ... though not really feature complete
<ogra> but it put the url bar *into* the pacge 
<ogra> *page
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+archive
<ogra> so it scrolled away and you had to scroll to the top to even type in an url
<asac> ogra: doesnt do that anymore ... at lesat the versoin i used here
<ogra> and there were various other usability things i found really annoying
<ogra> but i'll try the new one
<asac> ogra: just install the package and lets talk about that. i would love to forward reasonable suggestions
<ogra> will do, i'm currently to busy with image testing
<amitk> ogra: why does the q1's screen periodically come on by itself when it is idle?
<ogra> amitk, no idea why the bug was closed, there was one open for compiz/gnome-screensaver that i also still see on my laptop
<amitk> ogra: have a bug #?
<ogra> no, i cant seem to find it, i always accessed it from the critical bugs list for intrepid where it doesnt show up anymore
<ogra> amitk, its bug 278112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278112 in xorg-server "Screensaver doesn't start" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278112
<Teiana> bug 1
<ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Won't display info)
<Teiana> :)
<cypherdelic> lol in wine for every solved bug came at least one new :D
<cypherdelic> sry wrg ch
<Exaltia> np :)
<juliux> hey ogra what should i do with all the ubuntu-mobile marketing stuff?
<ogra> juliux, papermache ? 
<ogra> put it op on booths indeed :)
<juliux> ogra: the next one is cebit;)
<juliux> and it is realy heavy
<juliux> now i know why you give it me;)
<ogra> susie agrees, she tried to lift it from the trunk :)
<juliux> hehe
<ogra> sorry, i thought it would be helpful for you in some way
<juliux> i will write kate that the stuff is now in my basement so perhaps canonical has a use for it a cebit;)
<ogra> likely
<ogra> unless they are printing new ones for UNR
<juliux> UNR?
<ogra> but i wouldnt think so
<ogra> ubuntu-netbook-remix
<juliux> i don't think they will do new ubuntu hardy flyer
<ogra> there wont be an intrepid UNR
<juliux> ah ok
<ogra> UNR is supposed to be based off the LTS release
<ogra> so the fylers will likely be still valid for cebit
<juliux> good
<ogra> juliux, btw, what was that about tablet support recently ? 
<ogra> you moaned but didnt answer later
<juliux> ogra: with the default xorg.conf from interpid my tablet is not working
<ogra> the default xorg.conf of intrepid should be ampty
<ogra> *empty
<juliux> also if i uncomment all the tabletpc sections in the xorg.conf the tablet is not working
<juliux> my one was not empty, i made an upgrade from hardy
<ogra> ah
<juliux> and the xorg.conf at hardy was working fine
<ogra> try moving it away
<juliux> i search for a working one at launchpad;)
<juliux> and i still have the brigthness bug
<ogra> hal handles input devices in ntrepid
<juliux> it takes a long long time after waking up from suspend until the brigthness keys are working
<ogra> (you can override it in xorg.conf, but should always try the default first)
<juliux> i will try it with an empty xorg.conf
<ogra> try removing hotkey-setup, its likely interfering with hal 
<ogra> i know mdz recently worked on brightness key stuff for ibm lappies
<juliux> ok 
<ian_brasil__> not a mobile question as such but the gconf gtk_theme is set to Human-Clearlooks but there is no entry on /usr/share/themes or .themes for this
<ian_brasil__> maybe i will ask in ubuntu-art
<juliux> ogra: should i open bug reports about bugs in my tablet or should i wait after intrepid released?
<juliux> ogra: clearing the xorg.conf is not working;)
<ogra> juliux, see bug 282203
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282203 in wacom-tools "Wacom tablet hotplug is no longer enabled by default" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282203
<juliux> ogra: btw removing hotkey-setup doesn't helps
<juliux> ogra: i am looking realy forward to test with you tablet pc support on the next development cycle
<juliux> ogra: bug 282203 doesn't helps here i still need a special xorg.conf
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282203 in wacom-tools "Wacom tablet hotplug is no longer enabled by default" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282203
<ogra> juliux, please add your info to the bug
<juliux> ogra: i will do
<ogra> slangasek refuses to let the hal way in so he needs info if xorg.conf works
<juliux> ogra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wacom-tools/+bug/282203/comments/19
<juliux> there is also my xorg.conf
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282203 in wacom-tools "Wacom tablet hotplug is no longer enabled by default" [Medium,Triaged] 
<ogra> juliux, does it work with that xorg.conf (and did it in hardy as well with the same file ?)
<juliux> ogra: it was not working with my old xorg.conf from hardy that one is a new on i found at the web
<ogra> aha
<ogra> please note that the hardy one didnt work and you had to create a new one for intrepid
<ogra> thats very important
<juliux> added
<ogra> thanks :)
<juliux> ogra: i found somebody how will test it with a x61 tablet
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-22
<Exaltia> i need some help about ...how to say... redistributing some modifications i've made to ubuntu
<Exaltia> dunno how to do, and what i must do regardingthe gpl
<lool> morning
<Celtiore> hi
<lool> ogra: Hmm in the power menu, it looks like the suspend icon is actually missing,
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> lool, tedg uploaded a change on monday or so i hope he didnt remove it in favour of fusa inclusion but have to wait for him to get up
<lool> So currently, booting -mobile will cause madwifi to be used, that works, then if I suspend + resume, ath5k gets used instead and doesn't manage to associate with my wpa
<lool> In fact, I get half of the madwifi drivers loaded and ath5k at the same tmie
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> you can still get the suspend item by hitting the power button though
<ogra> hmm, i got the suspend/hibernate items here though
<james_w> njpatel: morning.
<njpatel> hey james_w
<james_w> njpatel: there is another change in netbook-launcher, the addition of the quit window, I'd forgotten
<james_w> that's why I didn't upload last night
<njpatel> james_w: Oh right, I forgot about that
<njpatel> james_w: Is that too much of a change to upload? (I guess it is)
<james_w> so, we can still get a feature freeze exception if you think it is the right thing to do
<james_w> having "This should work..." in the changelog entry might not help there though :-)
<njpatel> :-)
<njpatel> Hmm, I was waiting for reports on if it works or not, and it seems to 
<njpatel> james_w: I still need to fix it for smaller screens so is it possible to wait until tonight?
<njpatel> and I can guarantee a better commit message ;-)
<james_w> sure, tonight will be the last chance I think
<james_w> and we should discuss it with ogra now anyway
<james_w> the problem isn't so bad anymore, as ted has patched gnome-power-manager to pop up the shutdown dialog when you press the power button
<ogra> i'm open for everthing as long as you can guarantee there are no regressions :)
<njpatel> cool, I'll try and get it done as soon as I get a few moments. I'm currently engulfed by oem-unr work
<njpatel> ogra: No regressions, promise :-)
<james_w> I'll test it once you have it available
<lool> ogra: I get the suspend item when I press power button, but it's icon looks like the "no icon" broke nicon
<ogra> i get a black screen icon with a slightly lifted corner
<ogra> (which is the suspend icong imho)
<ogra> james_w, njpatel, please make sure to have proper bugs opened for the fixes 
<james_w> sure
<njpatel> ogra: will do
<lool> ogra: It's not the good icon, check on your ubuntu intrepid install on your desktop :)
<lool> ogra: I get the same icon at the bottom of "dates" which is the icon missing icon
<ogra> weird
<ogra> note that we dont use human icons in mobile
<ogra> 90% of them are not scaling to 48px in the panel
<ogra> (they all are hardcoded to 24)
<ogra> if you switch your desktop to the gnome icon theme, do you get the same ? 
<ogra> (i do)
<ogra> seems proper here ... do you run from usb key or is it installed ? 
<lool> I run from USB key ATM
<lool> I have something installed, not sure what
<lool> Anyway, not enough time to look into this today, neither for you nor me
<ogra> well, i see the proper gnome suspend icon on the installed image from yesterday
<ogra> and my gpm menu works 
<ogra> i think the livecd scrips from casper suppress hibernate, but you should see suspend in yours 
<ogra> lool, you dont happen to talk about -mid, do you ? :)
<lool> No, -mobile
<lool> ogra: I see Suspend, it just has a black icon with grey border and one border cut icon, which is the missing icon icon I think
<ogra> mumble ... if only eog wouldnt crash all the time 
<lool> ogra: touchscreen doesn't work from live ubuntu intrepid i386 CD on Q1U
<ogra> hal race ? 
<lool> I have no idea
<ogra> does mouse or keyboard work ? 
<lool> USB ones, yes
<lool> the one one the Q1 as well
<ogra> builtin i mean
<ogra> hmm, wors fine here
<lool> mouse works fine here as well
<lool> and keyboard too
<ogra> thats weird
<ogra> do we have the same Q1 ? 
<ogra> :)
<lool> Perhaps a race
<ogra> yeah
<lool> I'm booting from live CD plugged as USB drive
<lool> It worked from the daily -mobile USB image though
<ogra> oh
<ogra> well, evtouch isnt included in default ubuntu
<ogra> its a universe package
<lool> That's probably why
<ogra> :)
<ogra> apt-get install it and restart hal and your xsession
 * ogra curses ... eog definately only works the first time i start it after login
<lool> ogra: Shouldn't we aim at promoting evtouch and pulling it in input-all?
<lool> Late for intrepid, but perhaps for next cycle
<ogra> no, the plan is to generalize all touchscreens on evdev upstream for next release
<lool> Ok; what's the issue with evdev on the Q1U?
<ogra> evdev ? none 
<ogra> we currently have six touchscreen X drivers, upstream belives they could all be handled by evdev with some changes to evdev, so the others (like evtouch) can go away
<ogra> hmm, you are right, its the missing image, i wonder why upstream doesnt properly set a suspend icon here 
<lool> ogra: I suspect it might not be the pristine upstream menu
<ogra> afaik that dialog is the original upstream gnome dialog, using the gnome iconset it should use a proper icon 
<ogra> oh
<lool> So it might rely on some ubuntu-ish icon
<lool> But ICBW
<ogra> well, easily solved by providing a link from -settings if thats the case 
<ogra> hmm, no seb128 there ... he would know it i guess
<lool> Something to look at, but more urgent stuff today
<ogra> yeah
<lool> ogra: Shall we set a time for reviewing the cdimage scripts situation tonight?
<lool> Or should I just wait for an update this afternoon?
<ogra> sooo ... 
<james_w> njpatel: oh, also bug 277133, is that fix in these packages, is it supposed to be?
<ogra>  wget ftp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-backports-modules-2.6.27/linux-backports-modules-*-generic_*_i386.deb
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277133 in netbook-remix "ume-launcher application name wordwrap issue" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277133
<ogra> does that look sane ? 
<ogra> its quite ugly, but i dont see a awy to find out the used kernel version *inside* the image
<lool> ftp?
<ogra> since we only use mobile-kernel-generic in the build system and vmlinuz in the image
<ogra> http doesnt support wildcards
<lool> I see; wget is da suck
<ogra> the naming in the image has no versions 
<ogra> thats not wget's fault
<njpatel> james_w: the notification-window word-wrap issue needs to be ported from ume-launcher still afaik. I'll add it to the todo
<ogra> the protocol doesnt support wildcrs 
<james_w> njpatel: cool, it's not critical.
<ogra> *wildcards
<lool> ogra: This might result in fetching multiple packages when we have some intrepid-updates ones in the archive
<asac> lool: re madwifi stuff. problem with wpasupp + wext + madwifi driver is that it doesnt work for all cards. however it worked for some i nhardy and maybe driver has improved so it works for even more now
<ogra> lool, well, thats a special corner case ... we *should* always only have one lbm for 2.6.27 ...this case might show up only between two publisher runs
<asac> lool: not sure how good mobile can tweak this. for the "general" distro we dont have enough data to decide
<lool> asac: My point really boils down to that the fact that the madwifi backend was removed from wpasupplicant doesn't prevent madwifi + wpasupplicant to work at all
<ogra> ekk, no, indeed, -updates uses the same pool
<lool> ogra: Anyway, this might as well be a feature :)
<ogra> well, makes the howto more complex
<ogra> and might make the image explode at some point, StevenK only leaves 50M spare space by default iirc
<asac> lool: yes. but that is known. it is just that there are cards for which wext didnt work in hardy 
<ogra> though its unlikely that we build images after release i guess
<ogra> at least for non LTS ... 
<asac> (and before) ... and the madwifi plugin for wpasupp was the only way to get all working
<StevenK> It's still 20M
<ogra> and in jaunty we should have a pool directory inside the image
<lool> ogra: But I thought some images are already pulling some .debs in there; can't we do the same?
<ogra> liveCD does
<ogra> but that change would be a lot bigger
<StevenK> lool: Not easily
<ogra> my current ide only involves 5 lines
<ogra> *idea
<ogra> we dont have pbm for lpia btw
<ogra> *lbm
<ogra> so it will only help the mobile image atm
 * ogra goes to make some coffee
<lool> asac: There are so many claims from so many people concerning so many different hardware with madwifi and ath5k and wpasupplicant wext versus madwifi and various versions of kernel and ath5k and madwifi that I can't possibly feel confident to assert anything :)
<lool> What I can say is latest version of what we have in ubuntu works on this hardware that I just tested it on
<asac> lool: yeah. lucky you ;). my advice for kernel team was: get a list of cards that dont work through community testing and blacklist them for ath5k so they fall back to ath_pci (which hopefully works))
<lool> Exactly what I suggested...
<lool> and which I'd still consider sane
<ogra> but the list is missing :P
<lool> So one has to modprobe -r ath_* before suspend and load them after resume, then wifi works again
<lool> ath5k is just a red herring, it's always loaded but seems ineffective; didn't try to keep it too hard though
<lool> Now trying the reverse
<lool> arf replacing blub blub
<lool> +with
<lool> ogra: It's not trivial to use the lbm ath5k
<lool> you need to modprobe -r ath5k, mac80211, and cfg80211 as they conflict with the lbm versions
<ogra> for me just installin lbm in the installed image worked 
<ogra> mac80211 and cfg80211 are replaced by the lbm modules
<ogra> did you try that on the live image ? 
<ogra> or in an installed system
<lool> ogra: I tried that on installed system, but I had to modprobe -r manually; or reboot
<ogra> yes, you need to reboot
<ogra> lbm should set the reboot notification iirc it regenerates the initramfs in postinst
<lool> ogra: So you don't get wifi during install if you offer lbm on live images
<ogra> no
<lool> unless you manually remove modules like I did
<ogra> thats not why i want lbm o the image
<ogra> *on
<lool> Ok; you just want it for installed systems
<lool> Upon installation, people can install lbm
<ogra> if you installed and have no wired connection (i.e. no NIC) you dont have any opporunity to make it work
<ogra> so i want the package available for them by plugging in the usb key after the first reboot and be able to gdebi install it 
<ogra> if lbm doesnt show the reboot notification, thats a bug imhp
<ogra> *imho
<lool> I updated bug #284354 with in depth testing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284354 in linux-lpia "AR2424 on Samsung Q1 loads both ath_pci and ath5k modules" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284354
<lool> ogra: What I'd prefer is networking working straight from the live session, e.g. to install langpacks or additional packages
<ogra> right
<lool> Anyway, I finished investigations
<ogra> that will make the howto bigger indeed, but is documentable
<lool> The best way out of this mess is probably to fix ath5k without swallowing the 80211 ABI changes
<lool> ogra: We can offer a script along the .debs?
<lool> enable-lbm-ath5k
<lool> which does install, unload, reload
<lool> It can unload madwifi and ath5k
<lool> Didn't try this out BTW
<ogra> likely, let me finish my build-mobile-img changes first, cjwatson wants me to use grep-dctrl for which i have to find the right runes
<lool> Only tried between old and new ath5k
<lool> ogra: I think using grep-dctrl was the most sensible things to do :)
<ogra> yes, but i rarely use it :)
<lool> ogra: wget -O - http://../Packages | grep-dctrl -F Source -X <lbm-source> -s Package
<lool> Or rather grep-dctrl -S -X <lbm-source> -s Package
<lool> and -n to remove Package: from the output
<ogra> i need Filename
<lool> Oh right, then -s Filename :)
<ogra> but your pattern already is better than what i had yet
<ogra> gets me -server though
<ogra> and headers
<lool> That's just a template for matching this source
<lool> You can also match package name
<lool> or match only that
<ogra> right, but package name includes versioning
<ogra> so thats ut of discussion
<lool> ogra: You can use regexps
<ogra> grep-dctrl -F Source -X linux-backports-modules-2.6.27 -s Filename|grep -v server|grep -v headers
<ogra> that seems to get me the right think
<ogra> *thing
<lool> ogra: grep-aptavail -n -s Filename -X -S linux-backports-modules-2.6.27 -a -F Package -e '^linux-backports-modules-2.6.27-[0-9]+-generic$'
<lool> or if you don't want to check source, just grep-aptavail -n -s Filename -F Package -e '^linux-backports-modules-2.6.27-[0-9]+-generic$'
<lool> (grep-aptavail is just for local testing)
<lool> ogra: urgh grep-ctrl | grep -v | grep -v
<ogra> yeah
<lool> I just had lunch
<playya> ogra, hi. do you need the gconf paths for the compiz configuration?
<ogra> oh, yeah, that would rock !
<ogra> lool, should we link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting from the release.u.c index files ? 
<playya> set /apps/compiz/plugins/move/allscreens/options/constrain_y = false and you should move the the window where eer you want
<ogra> cool, thanks, i'll put that in after RC
<lool> ogra: Yeah
<ogra> good, i'll try to get that in then
<ogra> waiting for cjwatson feedback on the final fix for build-mobile-img first , then i'll move on to the publishing scripts
<playya> anyone tested if the gsm modem could be used for calls?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> we had some more serious probs with wlan which i'm currently trying to add a workaround for 
<playya> ipw2200?
<ogra> the gsm isnt really in focus atm
<ogra> we'll get to that in jaunty
<ogra> no, madwifi vs ath5k modules
 * ogra points to bug 284354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284354 in linux-lpia "AR2424 on Samsung Q1 loads both ath_pci and ath5k modules" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284354
<playya> ogra, imho snapping windows are anoying too on small displays. just a experience from my eee. i saw somw problems in your talk.
<ogra> sanpping ? 
<ogra> *snapping 
<playya> the windows glued to the desktop borders and "snap" when moved away
<ogra> ah
<ogra> they are actually maximized by devilspie 
<playya> on small display the might snap on/off all the time
 * ogra would prefer to use maximus, but thats sadly only working with metacity atm
<playya> just saw it on some dialogs on your q1
<ogra> right, that happens with apps that dont have the right minimal window size
<ogra> on the TODO list for jaunty :)
 * ogra rsyncs what hopefully will be the RC of ubuntu-mobile
<Bennimal> hi just browsed through the ubuntu mobile page
<Exaltia> hi there
<Exaltia> the ath5k wifi driver in ubuntu mobiles are  the madwifi's one isn't it ?
<persia> Sometimes.
<Exaltia> hu? :)
<persia> There's a bug that some devices need the ath5k driver, and some devices need the madwifi driver.
<Exaltia> ha, ok, so, the ath5k driver doesn't come from the madwifi drivers suite ?
<persia> This is true in one case where the device uses the same identifier.  As a result, depending on your specific hardware, you may have to force either ath5k or madwifi.
<persia> No, it's the one from the stock kernel tree.  The madwifi version is also available.
<persia> I believe that most of this issue has been worked around in the latest images, but depending on your hardware, you may have to do some configuration.
<Exaltia> no i understand why i see, despite the madwifi mention of "we don't do roaming until complete signal loss" of roaming :)
<Exaltia> now*
<Exaltia> time to search how to desactivate it, as after a couple of crazy roamings beetween 2 routers, the card purely desactivate
<ian_brasil__> me kicks himself for filing a bug about loss of wifi when the hardware kill switch was on
<persia> ian_brasil, Well, now you get to triage the bug :)
 * Exaltia shall look, do you have an url ? :)
<persia> URL for?
<Exaltia> ian brasil's bug :)
<persia> Exaltia, It only needs to get invalidated as the cause is known and it's not a software bug.  Doesn't need more eyes.
<Exaltia> okay :)
 * Exaltia blindes herself ;)
<Exaltia> blinds*
<ian_brasil__> i just quit somewhere
<persia> ian_brasil_, Hrm?
<ian_brasil__> persia: i must have been logged into IRC elsewhere and forgotten so I was rather shocked to see myself quit
<persia> Oh.  I see.  Is your nick registered with freenode?  If so, you might find /msg nickserv ghost a useful command.
<ian_brasil__> nice command..it looks like my home network is down
<persia> Usually one doesn't notice the network going down a few minutes *before* losing the connection :)
<ian_brasil__> me polishes third eye
<persia> heh
 * popey hugs ogra 
<ogra> :)
<popey> heya
<popey> just trying out ubuntu mobile on my eee, to take the the linux expo and show off tomorrow
<ogra> cool
<popey> i thought intrepid was supposed to natively support the wifi in this thing (with linux-restricted-modules) but it seems not to - need more digging
<ogra> did you get the most recent image ? 
<popey> yes
<ogra> see bug 284354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284354 in linux-lpia "AR2424 on Samsung Q1 loads both ath_pci and ath5k modules" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284354
<ogra> specifically the last comment i made
<popey> looks good
<popey> ogra: gdebi is telling me that "you likely do not want to install this package directly", i can ignore that can't I? this supplements existing modules?
<ogra> right, it replaces ath5k 
<ogra> might or might not work on eee
<popey> well i do have the problem on this that both ath5k and the ath_pci driver loaded at boot
<ogra> but the one in l-b-m is definately better than the one shipped by default
<popey> so it certainly _sounds_ plausible :)
<ian_brasil> we have an eeepc running mobile here
<ian_brasil> we set the wifi up using https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC/Fixes
<ogra> ian_brasil, they differ from model to model 
<popey> the 701 and 900 are the same from a wifi point of view
<popey> its only from the 901 up they changed it
<ian_brasil> its a 900
<popey> so is mine
<ogra> right, according to james_w either a 700 or 900 should work
<ogra> he tested the mobile image recently and reported that at least
<popey> yay
<popey> that fixed it
<ogra> great
 * popey hugs ogra again
 * popey comments on the bug
<ogra> i'll write a proper howto tomorrow
<ogra> currently i'm up to my ears in the release publishing scripts, -mobile and -mid need to become official releases with RC 
<Teiana> back from blackout ...
<james_w> ogra: hey, this is raw netbook-launcher diff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/61219/
<james_w> ogra: it's pretty big due to autotools changes
<james_w> ogra: are you happy with that, would you like me to make any more changes before upload?
<james_w> two simple enough bug fixes: bug 283374
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283374 in netbook-remix-launcher "Shrinks desktop background" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283374
<james_w> bug 277133
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277133 in netbook-remix "ume-launcher application name wordwrap issue" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277133
<james_w> and a quit dialog, bug 275644
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275644 in netbook-remix "With Intrepid, Quit icons don't allow to turn off the PC anymore" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275644
<ogra> james_w, urgh, 62000 lines ? 
<james_w> yeah :-/
<ogra> how did you convince the pastebin to not explode ? 
<james_w> diffstat http://paste.ubuntu.com/61222/
<persia> james_w, This is for post-RC, right?
<james_w> persia: for the -mobile image?
<persia> james_w, Yes.
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> yeah, sorry, I'm not used to working on CD packages
<persia> I've only been able to register one valid test so far, as the images keep getting respun, and the deadline is looming, so I fear anything that changes things.
<james_w> I was just thinking about final freeze
<ogra> ok, if its for post RC it needs to wait, we're all busy with RC atm
<persia> Milestone freeze trumps Final Freeze.
<persia> Come back Friday :)
<james_w> sure, I can wait
 * ogra needs to get the publish scripts on cdimage working 
 * persia needs to get around to writing the script to identify packages that break images
<james_w> anything I could lend a hand with?
<persia> james_w, Actually, sure.  Basically, there should be a script that takes a package name as an argument, and performs a comparison to report whether it would be part of an image build, and if so, for which flavours.
<persia> Preferably this would happen in a way that didn't require either a germinate run or full install of the packages concerned.
<james_w> hmm, no idea where to get that information from, care to give me a pointer?
<persia> I suspect that setting up something that pulled the relevant tasks to identify the packages would be best.
<james_w> apt-cache show has Task: when they are part of a task, is that sufficient?
<persia> james_w, Maybe.  Let me try to find an exception.
<james_w> also, is there germinate output stored online?
<persia> Maybe under p.u.c/~u-a/ somewhere.  I forget
<persia> Hmm...
<persia> james_w, Seems like apt-cache's Task: works.
<james_w> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/all
<james_w> so you want list of packages->task->image?
<persia> No need to show the task.  The important part is to create a tool that allows developers to know what is safe to upload during a milestone freeze, and allow the release managers to know what is safe to accept without querying a flavour (and which flavour to query) during final-freeze.
<james_w> yeah, I meant logically, but I guess a developer can work it out from the task name.
<james_w> hmm, but developers think in source package terms
<james_w> no trouble
<persia> Right.  It's the source-package-name -> image mapping that is tricky for developers.
<james_w> persia: first stab: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jamesw/which-images.py
<james_w> the mapping from task -> image is completely incomplete, as I don't have either an exhaustive list of tasks, or a knowledge of which tasks ends up on which CD
<persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/61244/
<james_w> see :-)
<persia> which tasks end up on which CD is in a combination of debian-cd and livecd-rootfs.
<persia> I'm not sure how to get an exhaustive list of available tasks.
<james_w> I'll get one by brute force
<persia> james_w, Hrm.  Found another one : jackd is on the Ubuntu Studio CD, but doesn't show a task for some reason.  Might be a bug in ubuntustudio seeds though.
<Exaltia> hey, just a bit of oftopic chat : Cheers and good luck for the future update !
<Exaltia> \o/ \\o o// o/ \o
<persia> james_w, Actually, I've not yet found a package for which I don't get that traceback.
<james_w> persia: yeah, just fixing it up now
<james_w> persia: better version available, still far from complete though
<persia> james_w, works for man-db, f-spot, human-theme.  Fails for phonon, jackd.
<persia> Getting close :)
<james_w> yeah, not sure what's going on with jackd
<persia> Yeah.  phonon is just a mapping issue?
<persia> Also, from where are you pulling that mapping?  Is it a separate source, or are you leveraging some other tool?
<james_w> read the source :-)
<james_w> if you know of a better way then I will happily implement it
<james_w> KeyError means it's not been added to the mapping dict yet
<persia> I see.  Hrm.  Probably sensible to find a way to have a common place for this that would be sourced by debian-cd, livecd-rootfs, and which-image.
<persia> But that's deep architecture.  Once this works, and a first draft is in ubuntu-dev-tools, let's hit up cjwatson to see how we might better integrate.
<james_w> certainly
<persia> Also, seems the issue with jackd (or mythnews) is an LP bug, so may as well ignore that for now (although ignoring it makes it more complicated for some folk)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-23
<bmk789> is it normal for the ume-laucher to be slow?
<persia> bmk789, What are you running?
<bmk789> intrepid on a centrino duo 1.5ghz
<bmk789> behaved the same before i upgraded from hardy
<persia> I don't see ume-launcher in intrepid, which is the part that confuses me.
<persia> Do you maybe have alternate entries also in your sources.list?
<bmk789> doesnt the mobile version use ume-launcher from a PPA?
<persia> No.
<persia> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile.
<bmk789> ok maybe im thinking of the wrong mobile
<bmk789> ok its netbook remix, not mobile, my mistake
<persia> Ah.  That makes sense.  Yeah, I think they do use a PPA.  Don't know anything about it though.
<Teiana> can i find somewhere the .config for the original ubuntu-mobile kernel ?
<Teiana> please forgot what i said
<Teiana> don't kill me :)
<persia> Teiana, /boot/ shoudl have it :)
<ogra> bmk789, ume-launcher (or netbook-launcher as its called in intrepid) needs a graphics card with full GL and composite support 
<Teiana> thanks :)
<ogra> dont use the PPA packages in intrepid ! all packages the netbook remix used are in the archive
<bmk789> ogra: so i can remove the ppa and still have all the packages?
<Teiana> what is the PPA packages ?
<ogra> ume-launcher was renamed to netbook-launcher, all the others have the same name they had in the PPA, yes, you *should* remove the PPA these packages are all compiled against hardy libraries
<bmk789> ogra: great, thanks
<bmk789> works so much better now
<ogra> bmk789, send kisses, flowers and beer to james_w :)
<Exaltia> *dcc send roses : Error, protocol_non_virtual_items: Not implemented ;)
<Exaltia> what the... i promised i didn't drinked, i saw 2 ian_brasil!
<persia> ian_brasil has many avatars.
<Exaltia> :)
<james_w> ogra: there are Intrepid packages in the PPA
<ogra> james_w, oh, really ? 
<ogra> thats not so good 
<ogra> we'll never manage to keep them in sync
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I think it's due to there focus on stable releases
<persia> It's a PPA.  The PPA team should be able to do what they like.
<ogra> which is fine, but people hat used the PPA manually in hardy might get experimental packages from the intrepid PPA
<ogra> intsead of the stable ones 
<Exaltia> i may look dumb (if it's not already done) but what means ppa ?
<ogra> i guess neil wont stop building test packages even after release 
<persia> ogra, Yeah, well, tell them not to do that.
<persia> If people sign up for a PPA, they get the risks of a PPA.
<ogra> he should better put them in a separate PPA 
<persia> Why?
<ogra> persia, well, they will never be aware there are stable packages otherwise
<persia> Yes, but if they signed up for a PPA, they may well want the PPA packages.
<ogra> so do you want to debug their issues here ?
<ogra> i'm fine dong that for the packages we have in the official archive ... but having to dig into peoples sources.lists to find out what they use to find out if a bug is in our package will just be painful
<persia> Only long enough to determine that they are using a PPA, and suggest that they not do so.
<persia> I don't see that it's any different than any other PPA.  I refuse to try to monitor PPAs to determine who broke what.
<ogra> but the PPA was the only way to get the packages in hardy
<ogra> so most people using UNR in hardy will have it 
<persia> That's true of *lots* of packages for every release since PPAs existed.
<ogra> yes, and it makes support very painful
<persia> Yes.  That's one of the things I've learned to dislike about PPAs.
<persia> On the other hand, I'm not going to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their PPA : I'll simply recommend users not use PPAs.
<persia> If users choose to use PPAs, that means they may get limited support from me.
<ogra> Exaltia, PPA = Presonal PAckage Archive (on launchpad.net)
<ogra> well, the situation is special here
<persia> (depends on the package : if it's not a PPA package, and it's one I can support, I'll support someone using a PPA for other packages)
<persia> Why is it special?
<ogra> if they wanted the apps in hardy, they were forced to the PPA
<persia> How is the UNR PPA different from e.g. the UbuntuEEE repo?
<ogra> if they upgrade to intrepid the PPA is still there
<ogra> do we have the eee packages in the archive ? 
<persia> Well, update-manager will disable it on upgrade, unless that PPA has a special update-manager.
<ogra> and do they go on developing them with the stable release name tagged to it ? 
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok, then we should be fairly safe ... unless they are stupid enough to use apt-get dist-upgrade :P
<ogra> i.e. because u-m didnt fit the screen in hardy :)
<persia> Yeah, well, there will always be systems that aren't configured properly.  All we can do is educate, and encourage people to use the standard repositories as much as possible.
<ogra> no
<ogra> first we need to find out that their systems are not configured properly
<ogra> which can take you hours
<persia> Actually, asking if someone has a third-party repo enabled is usually my first question when I get lost providing support in an area I think I understand.
<Exaltia> thanks ogra
<Exaltia> looks like linux-kernel-devel doesn't exist in the packages list
<Exaltia> (found such package name in the howto to recompile the ubuntu kernel)
<persia> Exaltia, apt-get soruce linux-image-2.6.27; apt-get build-dep linux-image-2.6.27
<Exaltia> can i kiss you ? :)
<persia> Difficult over IRC.
<Exaltia> :)
<Exaltia> Exaltia has quit irc [Buffer overflow] ;)
<persia> OK.  I've completed a round of testing on the current images.  If anyone else wants a go : see http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntumobile/all
<Exaltia> taking it, will try tomorow :)
<Exaltia> (on a virtual machine by the way, no more physical computer available for tests atm)
<Exaltia> persia : just reread a bit of what you said with ogra about ppa
<Exaltia> if someone use such ppa, will it be ok to tell those user something like "hey, this is ppa, for support, don't contact ubuntu, contact X" ?
<persia> Well, I usually say something like "I'm sorry, I'm not sure how that package might have been modified from the standard sources.  You might want to ask the patch author."  "don't contact ubuntu" is a very strong phrase, and most users who use PPAs *should* contact Ubuntu for the majority of their issues.
<Exaltia> it was no more than a rhougly example flavored by tiredness (?) :)
<persia> No worries.  I am just (perhaps overly) particular about phrasing and nomenclature.
<Exaltia> i understand
<Exaltia> i think i "fall" under those ppa users afterall
<persia> Exaltia, So, as a PPA user, do you feel like you don't get support?  Do you feel that we're being overly strict when we can't help you with PPA packages?
<Exaltia> not at all :)
<Exaltia> you got a point :)
<Exaltia> but
<persia> but?
<Exaltia> what are the obligations if a company start to give ppa to their customers ? based on ubuntu, is this allowed, first ? (maybe the most suitable channel for that is #ubuntu?)
<persia> I think it's permitted.  There are some restrictions about nomenclature related to the use of the term "Ubuntu" if changes are applied, although the specific thresholds aren't something I understand clearly.
<persia> Most importantly, I think you can't claim that something is "Ubuntu" unless it is derived from the official archives directly, except in certain jurisdictions or with certain preapprovals.
<Exaltia> in that case, it is derivated from ubuntu-mobile to be precise what i've just done is to build my own ppa, derivated from an official repository, who i added a few package, and maintaining it in a "desyncronised" manner
<persia> I think that's either a "remix" or a "derivative", although I'm not sure exactly which.
<Exaltia> i'm gonna bookmark the legal section of ubuntu site, as i'm sure there's one, and readingit carefuly tomorow, or it will my brain who will be remixed, it's 4am there :)
<Exaltia> thanks again for all the help
<persia> No problem.  Good luck with your project.
<Exaltia> that's what i've said first "don't contact ubuntu" i would feel 1000000000000% culprit to rely to an open comunity for support on a thing i've, as a company, modified myself, better word would probably be "unfair"
<persia> Certainly.  There are ways to integrate, and if you were actively improving Ubuntu, rather than having a separate patchset, and offering sales/support for Ubuntu, I suspect there wouldn't be any confusion.
<persia> With a separate patchset, you probably have to be more careful.
<Exaltia> ok
<Exaltia> i'm going, would be a pleasure to talk later, good night everybody
<lool> heya
<Exaltia> greetings there
<Exaltia> persia : finally, the trademark legal notice on ubuntu site is very explicit , as it's not permiting to use ubuntu name and artwork for commercial use :)
<persia> Exaltia, I'm glad you found an authoritative resource with the information you seek.
<Exaltia> :)
<sharp_eyes> hi
<sharp_eyes> how are u all
<sharp_eyes> is this ubuntu for moiles
<sharp_eyes> ????
<kunwon1> sharp_eyes, yes
<kunwon1> sharp_eyes, check out the channel topic, has cd images
<persia> Well, USB images, but something to test or install.
<persia> Team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting.
<blackgold> any tool to configure external monitor resolution? included applet dont allow to change resolutions at all. (ubuntu-mid)
<blackgold> with external monitor disconnected, aspire one boot into correct laptop res of 1024x600, with connected, both displays use 640x480
<ian_brasil> blackgold: you are running ubuntu-mid on an aspire one?
<blackgold> yes
<ian_brasil> i am running ubuntu-mobile and the second monitor works fine
<blackgold> what is difference between mid and mobile?
<ian_brasil> mid id based on hildon
<ian_brasil> mobile is more a standard gnome with some ui tweaks
<blackgold> so... you have 1024x600 on aspire one and 1280x1024 or something on external display? mine is 1680x1050 20"
<blackgold> i just want to use correct resolution on my external display
<ian_brasil> yes, the external picks up the same res as the screen IIRC
<ian_brasil> i did not need to configure anything anyway
<blackgold> good to hear, i'll try mobile then. hildon also segfault if i try to run openarena and glxgears gives only 120 fps
<blackgold> on linpus it was 400 fps or something
<blackgold> (and they still not updated openarena package for interpid, 0.8 release was long ago)
<ian_brasil> well hildon is for a much smaller form factor and i do not think much optimization has been done for running stuff
<persia> certainly not for openarena :)
<ian_brasil> we run true combat elite on ubuntu mobile here and it rocks
<blackgold> cool
<blackgold> i thought that mobile mean mobile phone or something :P
<persia> Yeah.  Mobile should be clean for gaming.
<persia> No.  Mobile computer.  Like a laptop, except not so big.
<blackgold> i probably may just install correct mobile package or gnome desktop or something? without reinstalling from mobile image?
<persia> blackgold, You can't easily switch from MID to Mobile or Desktop.  You can freely switch between Desktop and Mobile (apt-get install ubuntu-desktop vs. apt-get install ubuntu-mobile)
<blackgold> i see. thanks guys
<ogra> persia, why wouldnt that work on -mid ? 
<ogra> the packages should be there
<ogra> nobody has tested that, but still ... it should be possible
<persia> ogra, arch-dependent compilation flags on lpia.  WIthout a hildon desktop, lots of stuff breaks.
<persia> I'll write a spec for jaunty, and file bugs.
<ogra> ah, right, i always forget about that
<ian_brasil> paste.ubuntu.com/61509/
<persia> ian_brasil, risky to hardcode sda, but probably safe for devices with only one source of secondary storage.
<ian_brasil> persia:yes it seems like a sane default
<ogra> and you wouldnt want ext3 if your target is an SSD
<ian_brasil> right
<persia> Unless you have something that uses e.g. /dev/mmcblk0p1, /dev/mmcblk0p2, /dev/mmcblk0p3
<ogra> whats wrong with using UUID ? 
<Exaltia> could it be possible that NetWorkManager has trouble handling right wifi with hidden ssid ?
<ian_brasil> maybe use  LogFS if it is SSD ?
<ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ blkid /dev/sda1
<ogra> /dev/sda1: UUID="cb9aedc3-6a43-42e6-a732-bc76cc0c6276" TYPE="ext3" SEC_TYPE="ext2"
<ogra> use blkid :)
<ian_brasil> ogra: cool!
<ogra> ian_brasil, ls /dev/disk/by-uuid/
<ogra> for the counterpart
<ian_brasil> ogra: will look at that , thx
<ian_brasil> just reread the meeting..i have a server with webfaction and can temporarily host www.ubuntumobile.org and www.ubuntumid.org (well, depending on expected traffic anyway...they might be a bit pissed with me if it eats up lots of webfaction bandwidth)
<superm1> Hi, i just grabbed the last ubuntu-mid daily from today and loaded it onto a mini 9 just to take a look at things.  Is the font supposed to be as large as I'm seeing it? I have to scroll through the list of networks offscreen in network manager - and there are only 7 networks here..
<superm1> oh i suppose the mobile flavour makes more sense for this device  than the mid flavour
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-24
<ian_brasil> someone know how to find out what was installed in an upgrade?
<ian_brasil> i upgraded when i left for work this morning and it has killed my wireless on aspire one
<ian_brasil> and i want to track down what did it
 * ian_brasil looks through apt docs
<StevenK> ian_brasil: dpkg has a log in /var/log
<ian_brasil> StevenK: thx
<pururu> cool, Urban Terror work on aspire one, but fps is not playable, and i set everything to low already... any tweaks? 360 fps in glxgears
<ethana2> Does netbook have a channel yet?
<ethana2> http://i35.tinypic.com/inbix2.png
<ethana2> I'm one window-picker-applet feature away from perfection
<ethana2> ethana2@gmail.com
<ethana2> ..i think i'll restart my X session to see if it'll help pidgin with the facebookchat plugin .deb I just installed
<smp4488> anyone awake?
<persia> smp4488, Lots of people.
<smp4488> ahh i havent talked to you in a while whats up?
<persia> RC just released.  It's time for agressive testing to identify if there are any remaining release-critical issues before the images go for mastering.
<smp4488> really! are they up for download?
<persia> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/810rc
<smp4488> sweetness
<smp4488> now that a full ubuntu image right?
<persia> Well, there's lots of flavours of Ubuntu.  MID and Mobile are on the download page.  These are live USB images.  Test them as you like, or install them if you like.
<persia> If you find any bugs, please file them.  It helps a lot to improve it.
<smp4488> can i load the live usb images into the moblin image creator?
<persia> I don't think so.
<smp4488> hmm
<persia> You might be able to, but it probably requires significant modification of moblin image creator.
<smp4488> Will the MID flavour fun on x86?
<persia> moblin image creator is no longer used by either Ubuntu MID or Ubuntu Mobile, and the images certainly weren't tested with it.
<smp4488> so what are you all using now?
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageCreation
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageModification is probably more interesting if you're just looking for small changes.
<smp4488> im downloading the images now and i will test tonight and let you know
<smp4488> this project looks better and better everyday
<smp4488> who knows may be i will pull my touch screen out of my car to test further
<persia> touch screen support was one of the things that should be better for this image.  There's still work to be done, and some stuff that didn't make intrepid, but I suspect you'll find it to be supported.
<smp4488> what are you all looking at as far as gps?
<persia> I don't know that anyone is chasing GPS specifically for the mobile flavours (and my GPS USB key doesn't seem to work).
<persia> I've heard good things about gpsdrive, but the interface seems to take up a lot of pixels.
<smp4488> i will probably give that a look tonight
<persia> Any suggestions or testing or integration patches would be welcome, although I suspect it would be ideal to have a solution that worked well for both laptops and smaller stuff.
<persia> Thanks!
<smp4488> which flavour would you reccomend for a car pc? 1.2 ghz processor, 1 G of RAM?
<smp4488> i have looked into navit also but had problems with my gps reciever also
<persia> I'd probably suggest Mobile for a carpc, because of work to make it work with touch-interfaces, combined with fairly robust support for additional applications.
<smp4488> sounds good i will let you know
<persia> MID does touch well, but it expects applications to work with hildon, and represents a slightly different philosophy about things, so adding arbitrary packages doesn't always have the expected results.
<davmor2> superm1: ping
<persia> davmor2, You might have more luck in #ubuntu-devel :)
<smp4488_> sorry my internet went down for a sec
<smp4488_> how quick do you think i can get this to boot?
<smp4488_> well when i say "this" i meant  mobile
<persia> I don't know if anyone has done any boot-time testing.  Should be able to get it down to 30-40 seconds easily.  More than that probably requires a bit of work.
<smp4488_> im thinking compact flash
<persia> In my experience, /boot on CF only saved a couple seconds over disk.
<pururu> how to disable windows auto-maximize and return normal captions to them?
<pururu> mm s/captions/titles+menus
 * pururu uses area of effect "rise of the dead" spell level 3
<pururu> and openarena is slow on aspire one
<pururu> any optimizations for xorg beyond EXA ? this thing dosnt make any difference, probably just enabled by default
<ogra_> pururu, -mid or -mobile ? 
<pururu> mobile
<ogra_> go to applications->system->settings->sessions and uncheck devilspie in the list, on next login your windows wont automaximize anymore
<ogra_> (and have decorations)
<pururu> cool thanks
<asac> ogra_: so the browser uses the minefield icon in the taskbar :/
<asac> btw, wpa works oob here on Q^1
<pururu> midbrowser menu still missing, i forget how to bring preferences dialog
<ogra_> pururu, f4 i think
<asac> yes f4 is menu
<pururu> thanks
<ogra_> we'll likely go with fennec or firefox with grab'n drag plugin in jaunty
<StevenK> \o/
<amitk-afk> lool: please check the commits after -4.8 at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid-lpia.git;a=shortlog
<amitk-afk> lool: I am picking up relevant config changes from base kernel too
<amitk-afk> lool: this is the rebased tree btw (rebased to -7.14 base)
 * asac installs fennec on Q1
<ogra_> :)
<asac> ogra_: i have to say that the ubuntu image is quite nice
<asac> ogra_: only big issue imo is the window taskbar
<asac> thats not right that way for sure ;)
<asac> you cannot read anything because of space constriants
<asac> also when hittin the X in right top corner while having keyboard open will just close the app you had open
<asac> (which is not what users expect)
 * persia is also confused by the keyboard, and doesn't use it.
<asac> hehe
<asac> yeah. well it happened now three times: typed with great pain ... then closed the app instead of the keyboard
<asac> tripling the pain when you notice that you just closed what you typed :/
<ogra_> yeah, cellwriter needs some love for jaunty but i the end its just a matter of adapting your habit
<ogra_> you will only do that once or twice, then you start using the cellwriter icon to expand/collapse ;)
<asac> ogra_: we should use fennec right away now ;)
<asac> location bar is confusing a bit ... yeah. but not really bad 
<ogra_> asac, if you get that past slangasek i'm willing to change the seeds :)
<asac> at least not worse than the side window panel and the keyboard
<ogra_> though i'd prefer a dumbed down FF UI with grab'n drag
<asac> ogra_: slangasek ... better not. he didnt even let plain mobile 3G data in 4 days ago
<asac> e.g. provider info updates
<amitk-afk> would you guys hate it if we switched to vesafb module? base kernel already did the switch.
<asac> well ... he finally did it, but he didnt say: "approved", but ... no. data shouldnt land that late
<ogra_> note that most of the devices mobile is run on ship with vista by default ... at least thats what i learned about UMPCs 
<ogra_> so there is really no point to have to ship fennec
<asac> ogra_: ok. but that gives us a chance to convince them
<asac> e.g. just be far better and even the vista addicts will understand
<ogra_> fully functional FF is surely better 
<amitk-afk> persia: seeing any problem with uvesafb? would switching to vesafb at this stage be desirable?
<asac> ogra_: yeah. lets also reduce the font size
<asac> to 6pt
<ogra_> yeah
<asac> ok ... so enough live stuff. how do i install?
<StevenK> asac: Mobile, or mid?
<asac> mobile
<StevenK> asac: There's an Install icon on the desktop
<asac> i am running the live session
 * asac closes his mobile terminal ;)
<persia> amitk-afk, There were a number of users who complained that uvesafb completely failed to work for them.  Unless you want the headache of tracking it, I'd recommend aligning with mainline as much as possible.
<StevenK> asac: :-)
<asac> the install icon appears in tasklist ... then disappears (apparently because it takes too long) ... 5 seconds later the installer starts
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> get a faster USB key :P
<asac> hmm ... somehow it looks like half of the window is hidden under the panel
<StevenK> It isn't
<asac> (which isnt true, its just a visual pretention)
<asac> StevenK: yes. it just looks that way and might cause confusion (like for me)
<asac> i should look like its in-front not in back imo
<amitk> persia: I'm all for it, pushed the config changes enabling vesafb as module. just wanted to make sure it would be ok to switch to vesafb by default
<StevenK> That's because mozilla sourcecode has eaten your retinas
<asac> or a tiny border where you can see abit of the desktop color in between
<ogra_> asac, thats because of compiz and its shadows 
<ogra_> i might revisit that for jaunty
<asac> hmm this timezone selector is unusable with a stylus
<ogra_> actually i would have loved to use maximus, but that only works with metacity
<StevenK> Try it with a tiny screen
<asac> hehe selected Berlin and the map now show the arctis ;)
<asac> install started
<ogra_> play a round of aisle riot then :)
<ogra_> takes 15min 
<asac> hehe
<asac> we really have to find something better for the window selector
<asac> the desktop looks so neat
<asac> but that thing really dominates the first impression
<ogra> well, i was planning to hack up wnck applet to show big icons and no text
<ogra> with a gconf key
<asac> ogra: big==?
<asac> like the panel iconS?
<ogra> adapted to the panel size
<persia> That sounds a lot better.  The selector on the left is non-ideal for several sorts of uses.
<ogra> the sidepanel is 80px ... the icons should at least be 60x60
<ogra> the current prob is that wnck expands the first button to full panel size, thats odd 
<ogra> the buttons should have a fixed size and not shrink with the amount of apps
<asac> ogra: its a deficieny of the gnome panel
<asac> they never understood how to display entries in vertical panels
<ogra> well, wnck applet ... 
<asac> like they always grow verticalls
<asac> y
<ogra> other applets do it right
<asac> i would love to use a side panel on my main desktop, but i dont want the elements scale vertically
<asac> they should just stack and expand horizontally
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> for intrepid i wanted to go mainly with unchanged gnome and get enough feedback for proper jaunty changes
<asac> ogra: sure. this is a gnome bug imo
<ogra> but wnck applet is definately on my list
<asac> either nobody cares about side panels for window tasks or the folks thinking that this way is the right way are on crac
<asac> k
<lool> amitk: What should I check in http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid-lpia.git exactly?  You mean this is ready for sponsoring?
<asac> but then maybe its my obligation to fix this finally - i have been waiting for that since 2.4 or something
<ogra> asac, i'll care in jaunty 
<ogra> beating upstream with cluebats :)
<asac> ogra: the window task list in gnome?
<asac> that would be so great
<asac> i can easily read 40 windows if its vertical and properly
<ogra> yeah
<asac> at the bottom its unusable for everything > 10 windows (on a large screen)
<ogra> not if you set it to grouping mode
<asac> ogra: grouping mode is even worse
<ogra> which we should have on by default imho
<asac> i want to see _all_ windows with their title readable
<asac> grouping just requires another click
<asac> but i understand people that like grouping more
<asac> for me the windows on the task list should be stacked and not grouped, but ordered by application ... so that all ffox windows are directly next to each other
<ogra> yeah
<amitk> lool: no. I am just pushing every commit I make to fix configs after rebasing.
<asac> but well ;) ... next cycle i will just overtake the desktop experience team
<asac> that brought to us this great log out experience :)
<lool> amitk: Ok; you're just asking for early review, and will call for sponsoring later AIUI?
<amitk> lool: specifically, look at the config changes - tcp, ath5k, vesafb
<ogra> asac, haha
<amitk> lool: correct. to avoid any surprises
 * lool pulls
<amitk> lool: all configs changes are in line with base kernel. I didn't bother to turn on ext4 though
<ogra> ext4 is on o_O
<ogra> ??
<lool> CONFLICT CONFLICT CONFLICT blah :-(
<ogra> brave ...
<asac> hmm ... what is this "mine" thing in the tray
<asac> hmm a second volume switcher?
<amitk> lool: just look at the web interface
<asac> oh i its brigthness ;)
<amitk> ogra: it is on in base kernel 
<ogra> asac, lol
<lool> I've just used git reset --hard origin
<ogra> asac, i was wondering what you were talking about before ... 
<lool> amitk: Good thing that you're prefixing tags with LPIA now
<amitk> lool: yeah, it was getting confusing for me.
<lool> Well it was required since you were importing a tree with the same version numbers for the source package, but pointing at different objects
<lool> Hmm
<lool> I think I invented a new way to make me grab useless stuff, crap
<lool> amitk: I take it that the config changes you're doing are mirrored on the corresponding linux config changes?
<amitk> lool: yes, except for ext4. Didn't bother with it for lpia
<lool> I'd still argue that I can't review properly what changed between lpia uploads, but what you did since the last linux uploads looks ok
<lool> amitk: was vesafb enabled in RC.
<asac> ogra: cant you add the fta PPA to seeds ;)
<lool> s/.$/.?
<lool> I mean in linux in RC
<amitk> lool: rebasing kills that history unfortunately. After this upload, no more rebases - only merges
<ogra> asac, haha, i doubt the image builders would like that 
<amitk> lool: yes, vesafb is default in RC
<lool> Ok
<lool> amitk: So what I see is that you a) rebased b) fiddled lpia tree maintenance scripts c) mirrored most config changes which happened in linux; I'm fine with this
<amitk> good. Lets see what the test build says.
<lool> amitk: Do you push to ppa?
<lool> Ah no, I guess it's slow
<amitk> lool: no, local build
<asac> drumrolls ... "restarting now ..."
<amitk> 89..90..91 degrees!
<asac> oh no ... i installed fennec and now its gone after install :(
<asac> thought livecd would keep what i install there
<asac> ogra: so the password i used during install doesnt allow me to sudo su :(
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> it should
<asac> in fact it doesnt work at all
<ogra> typoed ? 
<asac> most likely. but i am almost 100% sure that i typed "test"
<ogra> works fine here 
<ogra> i use sudo all day on mobile
<persia> asac, Nope.  It's an intentional feature that user changes to the live session are dropped on install.
<ogra> heh
<asac> persia: err. i was asked for a password in the installer
<asac> that isnt there anymore :(
<asac> and its not empty
<asac> (like it was in the live session)
<asac> persia: so what is the default password? is there any?
<ogra> no
<ogra> mobile just creates an ubiquity user
<asac> persia: oh. i think you referred to fennec from above
<ogra> with the credentials you give it during install
<asac> *sigh* ... one more install then
<ogra> is it using the user you created ? 
<persia> asac, That's bug #287857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287857 in kourou "Ubiquity prompting for step 5 in --automatic mode on Ubuntu MID RC image" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287857
<ogra> persia, mobile ....
<persia> asac, Just don't enter a password.
<ogra> asac, or are you testing mid now ? 
<asac> ok 
<asac> no mobile
<asac> persia: i cannot not enter a password
<StevenK> persia: Mobile asks for the username
<asac> the installer doesnt enable the next button
<ogra> mobile should work exactly as desktop
<persia> Oh, right.  any password should work.
<asac> persia: it doesnt here
<asac> persia: i used "test"
<asac> and now i cannot become root anymore
 * persia is very confused
<asac> well ... not anymore.. i cannot become root at all
<asac> doing a new install
<asac> now
<asac> ok ... doing nothing, but hitting the "install"
<asac> i can only emphasize that the timezon selector is broken ;)
<asac> ok ... entire disk ;)
<asac> ok i think i know what was going on
<asac> this stupid Q1 num lock thing
<asac> triple checked that its not on ... installing ;)
<asac> lets see in 15 minutes
<ogra> heh
 * ogra is relieved 
<asac> hmmm plenty crashes
 * asac upgrades
<asac> it it known that the Q1 cursors dont work, but "up" is F1? (-> Help)
<asac> cursor-keys
<asac> too bad that Q1 has no 3g ;)
<asac> ogra: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/cool.gif ;)
<ogra> asac, whats that ? 
<asac> ogra: ffox3 ;)
<asac> err 3.1
<ogra> heh
<asac> -moz-transform CSS style
 * ogra wonders about the usecase :)
<ogra> if you have a really broken sight, use ff 3.1, it can fix up your strabismus :)
<asac> ogra: not sure ... animated html elements?
<asac> err 3d html elements i mean
<asac> but its not really 3d ... just transformed
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> not actualy useful for text elements 
<ogra> but might open intresting opportunities for non text 
<asac> ogra: i think its a bug that the location bar disappears sometimes here in fennec when scrolling vertically
<asac> also those folks should _stop_ thinking that mac style is the world
<asac> this grey is just ugly imo ... similar ugly as the mac ffox
<ogra> yeah
<asac> http://cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/firefox-3-themes.jpg
<asac> mac is the worst imo
<ogra> wow, they all have that ugly button layount now ? 
<ogra> only linux doesnt
<persia> We win :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> asac, is there any way to tell NM to look for a network connection on startup if its not configured yet ? 
<ogra> i think it does that on the liveCD ... it doesnt seem to in the mobile image
<ogra> i have to click the icon an select a network manually before installing
<asac> ogra: which essid should NM use?
<asac> if there are many?
<asac> (which is the usual case nowadays)
<ogra> the one with the strongest signal ? no idea
<ogra> i just know it did try to connect by default in former releases
<lool> asac: I don't think it's easy; what I mentionned instead is that ubiquity should poke about network status if it likes to use the net and NM says there's none at this point
<ogra> currenty the installer is unhappy if there is no net
<lool> Perhaps not ubiquity itself, but the underlying screen/whatever
<ogra> we dont have a ship seed on the images so we dont have langpacks locally
<asac> lool: right. the installer should honour online/offline status
<ogra> which means it relies on having a connection up
<lool> I don't think we can expect NM to connect to random nets
<asac> exposed by NM
<lool> asac: Yup
<asac> it could also present its own AP selector
<asac> and start the connection through dbus
<ogra> i would like an option in the face of the user if it doesnt have a connection up
<asac> lots of things possible ;)
<ogra> its easy to miss that you are not connected atm
<asac> i should dump firefox and go for NM only ;)
<ogra> heh
<asac> NM installer wizard ;)
<asac> lool: i think mvo said that the he is working on online/offline for 9.04
<lool> Excellent
<smp4488_> is the usb image writeable?
<ogra> smp4488_, no but you cn install packages to it
<ogra> *can
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageModification
<ogra> well, or do other things ... the script gives you a writabe mode inside the image
<amitk> StevenK: -4.9 kernel is usual location for upload. ABI bump due to xfs ignored.
<amitk> lool: ogra: ^
<smp4488_> so anything i do booted from the usb cant be saved
<StevenK> amitk: \o/ !
<lool> amitk: noted
<lool> amitk: StevenK is jumping on sponsoring
<StevenK> amitk: The .orig is still uploading?
<StevenK> Ah, yes
<StevenK> I don't need it
<amitk> StevenK: yeah... sorry I delete it by mistake. Then realised that you _might_ need it.
<StevenK> amitk: Uploaded
<lool> YEAH \o/
<lool> StevenK: Can you kick a daily image build when it's ready?
<StevenK> lool: Probably not, since that will likely be 2am
 * ogra will do that
<ogra> lool, i assume that doesnt include fixed traslations yet ? 
<lool> ogra: Perhaps check if it's ok with release team
<ogra> will do
<lool> ogra: You mean kourou updates?
<ogra> yeah
<lool> kourou wasn't uploaded yet AFAIK
 * ogra suspects just importing xdg.Locale might help
<ogra> fiddling with that atm
<StevenK> I don't think I even had to do that
<ogra> err, so is it fixed ? 
<lool> I'm installing in French
<ogra> ok, i'll stop poking that then
<elegos> hello there
<elegos> I've got a question: I've got an Eee-PC
<elegos> what shold I do to fully enable functions and eventually fix problems after a fresh installation?
<smp4488> im getting a kernel panic with mobile usb: not syncing vfs
<elegos> should*
<persia> elegos, There's some EeePC docs on the wiki, but I'm not sure how much they are based on Mobile vs. Desktop.  What's not working?
<persia> smp4488, That's unexpected.  At what point in the cycle?
<lool> I get translated .desktop names in kourou after an install in French
<lool> Perhaps I didn't install the langpacks due to network issues last time
<persia> Hurrah!
<elegos> persia: dunno, the computer is of my girlfriend and, having troubles with ubuntu-eee, I wanted to find her an alternative
<lool> I'll invalid that bug
<persia> elegos, Hrm.  Most of it should just work.  I've heard of issues with WiFi on some models, where installing linux-backports-modules was a workaround.
<StevenK> lool: \o/
<StevenK> lool: The other two bugs are fixed locally
<persia> Anyone have an Eee who could help elegos with understanding what might not work?
<lool> StevenK: The %k and %i as well?
<lool> Cause I was about to test my fixes
<elegos> persia: what about EeePC 701 with Atheros card?
<StevenK> lool: Yes
<lool> You added a lambda?
<StevenK> lool: I'm plotting crashing, but I can push my branch
<lool> Please push; we need to get these changes uploaded and approved ASAP
<lool> (and tested evidently)
<persia> ogra, Do you know if the 701 was one of those that needed lbm?
<ogra> persia, popey had to install lbm on a 700 iirc
<StevenK> lool: This is untested stuff
<elegos> what is LBM?
<lool> linux backports modules
<lool> a package
<elegos> ok
<ogra> elegos, it is in the image in the /debs dir 
<ogra> you can install it manually after an installation
<elegos> and what about tweaks needed by a standard 8.04 installation?
<ogra> oh, you talk about standard 
 * ogra thought he talked about mobile
<elegos> yes I know
<elegos> I'm speaking about the differences
<ogra> no idea about standard ...
<ogra> mobile uses a different desktop layout and themeing
<elegos> i.e. graphics card boosted, shutdown issue (not shutdowing), Atheros WiFi card
<elegos> (madwifi drivers)
<ogra> the athreos card will be handled by lbm
<ogra> i'm not aware o any shutdown issues
<ogra> *of
<ogra> since the eee has a intel 965 graphics card it should just work
<elegos> I know about this project: http://www.array.org/ubuntu/index.html
<ogra> just try out the mobile image, its a live image
<elegos> since now it handles a custom kernel for eeePC
<elegos> ok
<ogra> you can test if it works from USB key
<elegos> I'll try
<ogra> if you see issues, tell us
<elegos> the site says the standard intrepid kernel should have enabled by default these modules:
<ogra> all i know is that mobile should just work ... apart from a wifi issue thats fixed with the lbm package
<elegos> atl2 module (weird card) ath5k module (wireless card), uvcvideo module (webcam)
<ogra> right
<ogra> but ath5k is broken ... thats why you need lbm
<elegos> ok so just that package
<ogra> it shps a fixed ath5k
<elegos> it's a good stard :)
<elegos> start*
<StevenK> lool: Pushed
<elegos> what about hotkeys and frontmic?
<ogra> just try it :)
<ogra> no idea
<elegos> ok :P
<elegos> many thanks
<ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/
<ogra> mobile is there 
<lool> StevenK: To where?!
<lool> StevenK: Don't see any change in lp:kourou
<StevenK> Oh, bugger
<StevenK> Hang on
<lool> It's basically something like:        repl = lambda matcho: sub_desktop_codes(matcho, desktop = path)
<lool>         cmd = re.sub(r"%[a-zA-Z%]", repl, cmd)
<lool> But I odn't know what to use, it's not "path"
<lool> It's probably self.model[path].mething
<StevenK> Once you put it into the model
<elegos> last question: how can I import on an USB pendrive the image using MacOS?
 * ogra doesnt know if macos has dd
<persia> elegos, You'll probably have to use dd (assuming Mac OS X). 
<ogra> there are instructions on the above page
<elegos> yes, MacOS X (32bits)
<persia> sudo dd if=$(mobile image) of=$(pendrive device) bs=1024
<ogra> look fo the image writing guide
<elegos> dd does exist on MacOS ^^
<persia> I don't remember how MacOS X does device handling.  Ask back if you get stuck, and I'll go boot that machine.
<ogra> link is in the middle somewhere
<elegos> p.s. do I need to do anything else after that command? I mean... any custom partitioning, any boot settings?
<ogra> no
<elegos> ok thanks
<ogra> just follow the guide and you should be good
<persia> elegos, Be aware that the command I suggested will overwrite the USB key.  You probably have to reformat it to use it for anything else.
<elegos> that's not a problem :)
<elegos> ah, another question: the base system how many GB do it use?
<elegos> does*
<StevenK> 2, or so
<elegos> thanks
<elegos> and is it included openoffice or something like that?
<StevenK> Yea
<elegos> thanks :)
<StevenK> lool: *Now* it's pushed
<elegos> /dev/disk2s1 on /Volumes/ELEGODATA (msdos, local, nodev, nosuid, noowners) <======= this should be the device... do I have to umount it before?
<StevenK> elegos: Yes
<lool> StevenK: That works?
<elegos> thanks
<StevenK> lool: I don't know if it works
<lool> It's not coming up
<lool> I'm trying again
<lool> StevenK: No home screen anymore...
 * ogra had that before 
<ogra> black screen ? 
<lool> ogra: Well I get hte marquee
<lool> So some python traceback on load
<ogra> right
<ogra> but no kuourou
<ogra> kuorourouroou
<ogra> uuu
<lool> StevenK: rather than map + lambda, consider [x for y]
<StevenK> lool: Yeah, you'll have a traceback in .xsession-errors
<lool> Oh indeed; didn't scroll high enough
<lool>   File "/usr/lib/hildon-desktop/kourou.py", line 155
<lool>     p = subprocess.Popen(cmd, shell=True)
<lool>     ^
<lool> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<StevenK> What did I screw up?
<StevenK> Oh, duh
<lool> You didn't close your sub_desktop_codes()
<StevenK> Missing closing bracket on the previous line
<lool> But I'm pretty sure it doesn't work
<StevenK> Why not?
<lool> Trying with a bracket
<lool> StevenK: Because that calls sub_desktop_codes() at the time where you name it
<lool> It doesn't create an anonymous function
<StevenK> What do you suggest?
<lool> What I pasted earlier here
<lool> Cool, works fine
<lool> pushing
<lool> StevenK: lp:~lool/kourou/fix-anonymous-func-and-bracket
<StevenK> I think I just fixed it too
<smp4488__> how can i install from the usb drive if i booted from the live cd?
<lool> StevenK: Did you test it?
<StevenK> lool: Nope
<ogra> smp4488_, ? 
<lool> StevenK: So please merge mine instead; I tested it
<ogra> smp4488_, you need to boot from the usb key
<smp4488__> i cnat boot from the ubs drive i cant run the noacpi command
<lool> StevenK: Can you please release and upload?
<elegos> sudo dd if=ubuntu-mobile.img of=/dev/disk2s1 bs=1024
<elegos> dd: /dev/disk2s1: Operation not supported
<elegos> what's wrong with it?
<lool> elegos: What's your OS?  MaxOSX?
<elegos> yes, MacOS X 10.4.1 "Leopard"
<lool> elegos: Are you 100% confident it's the pathname to the USB key?
<lool> elegos: Make sure you unmount it too
<elegos> 10.5.5*
<lool> elegos: It's probably just /dev/disk2
<elegos> I've tried that too
<lool> elegos: But make damn sure it's the USB key
<lool> Don't wipe your hd
<elegos> lol
<lool> elegos: So perhaps it's something else, no idea
<elegos> /dev/disk2s1 on /Volumes/ELEGODATA (msdos, local, nodev, nosuid, noowners) <=== it was mounted before
<elegos> ls /dev | grep disk
<elegos> disk0
<elegos> disk0s1
<elegos> disk0s2
<elegos> disk0s3
<elegos> disk1
<elegos> rdisk0
<elegos> rdisk0s1
<elegos> rdisk0s2
<elegos> rdisk0s3
<elegos> rdisk1
<elegos> uhm <.<
<elegos> I think it was COMPLETELY unplugged it
<elegos> had*
<elegos> damn macos :P
<lool> elegos: Do you have mount/umount?
<lool> elegos: Plug in, umount and try disk2 or rdisk2
<elegos> sudo umount /dev/disk2s1
<elegos> umount: unmount(/Volumes/ELEGODATA): Resource busy
<lool> IIRC rdisk is just the raw version which doesn't eat your RAM
<StevenK> lool: We independly wrote the same code
<lool> elegos: Close any open windows in the file browser
<lool> StevenK: Push and I'll confirm then
<elegos> can't close Finder :P but I can go away from it
<elegos> maybe it's the desktop icon?
<StevenK> lool: Pushed
<elegos> W umount -f
<smp4488> how do i boot noacpi for the usb image?
<lool> StevenK: Yup, matches
<StevenK> lool: Told you :-)
<lool> StevenK: So release and upload would be nice; last important milestoned bugs
<lool> For us
<elegos> what FS is the UM image?
<StevenK> elegos: VFAT
<persia> elegos, VFAT
<elegos> hanks
<elegos> thanks
<smp4488> noapic option?
<lool> StevenK: So as I was saying earlier, at your convenience you might want to replace map(lambda x: x.lower(), dentry.getOnlyShowIn()) with [x.lower() for x in dentry.getOnlyShowIn()]
 * StevenK prefers map :-P
<persia> smp4488, Just enter an alternate kernel command line at the grub prompt within the 5-second window.
<ogra> smp4488, or mount the usb key on another machine and edit syslinux.cfg
<lool> persia: itz hard to type on Q1U!!1!
<lool> I'd love to have the same menus as the desktop's ISO
<persia> lool, Attach a keyboard or get a different UMPC :p
<smp4488> none of the kernel options will work
<ogra> lool, wireless kbd ftw :)
<smp4488> i get kernel not found
<persia> smp4488, Are you entering the full command line?  It's just a grub prompt.
<lool> persia: You also need to know about the actual command line to type
<lool> Oh grub prompt
<persia> lool, True.  Menus are easy for Jaunty.
<ogra> thats why i said edit syslinux.cfg :)
<smp4488> i dont think it is a grub prompt all i get is boot:
<persia> editing syslinux.cfg means no using the target keyboard (good for lool)
<lool> smp4488: If you're booting from USB key, either edit syslinux.cfg or type its content on the boot: prompt
<persia> Oh, right, it's not a grub prompt.  It's a syslinux prompt.
<lool> smp4488: Otherwise, from a grub menu, press "e" on the kernel line and add some options
<smp4488> anything i type in the prompt i get kernel not found
<ogra> really, edit syslinux.cfg
<smp4488> with what option just noapic?
<ogra> no idea, whaever you wanted to add
<ogra> mount the key on a desktop, edit syslinux.cfg and add what you want 
<smp4488> because i can get the live cd to boot with the noapic under the settings
<ogra> so why do you think you need it for the usb key ? 
<ogra> its the same kernel
<smp4488> the usb image is the mobile image and the cd is the full
<ogra> full ? 
<smp4488> full ubuntu install
<ogra> there is no difference apart from desktop layout and theme
<ogra> mobile just has a different UI setup
<ogra> the app selection is the same
<smp4488> yea but i want the inital setup without the extra bulk
<ogra> apt-get remove ubuntu-mobile-default-settings after install ... then reboot
<smp4488> no i want the mobile ui
<ogra> ??
<ogra> you just said you dont
<ogra> what do you call extra bulk then ? 
<smp4488> no i have the mobile image on usb and the full ubuntu install on cd
<ogra> there is *no* difference apart from ubuntu-mobile-default-settings
<smp4488> i can boot the cd with noapic option but i cant with the usb drive
<lool> amitk: ^
<persia> smp4488, Did you try editing syslinux.cfg?
<lool> smp4488: Which mobile image is this?
<lool> smp4488: mid or mobile?
<StevenK> lool: Kourou 0.9-0ubuntu1 uploaded
<lool> StevenK: Kool, thanks
<smp4488> persia: im working on that now
<lool> StevenK: Sleep well, and have a nice WE
<smp4488> lool: the mobile image
<persia> smp4488, It's probably just the differences between isolinux and syslinux then.
<amitk> smp4488: what hw is this?
<lool> amitk: Nevermind; I thought it was lpia/i386 delta in config
<lool> But that was an overly quick judgment
<ogra> smp4488, ubuntu-8.10-rc-mobile-i386.img ?
<persia> It's just bootloader differences
<smp4488> its an intel x86
<ogra> smp4488, this image ? 
<smp4488> orga: yes that it
<ogra> well, i dont see why it wouldnt boot
<StevenK> lool: Needs to be accepted by a member of -release, though
<ogra> persia, its the same bootloader, syslinux == isolinux
<ogra> they just use different filesystems but are internally the same
<smp4488> ok i changed the syslinux.cfg
<ogra> smp4488, where exactly does it hang ? 
<ogra> or how ...
<smp4488> i get a kernel panic right after the boot screen
<ogra> a kernel panic or do you end up in a busybox shell ? 
<lool> StevenK: Does it fix german?
<StevenK> lool: Yes
<lool> ogra: Can you try it out?
<ogra> lool, will do, as soon as my german install finished
<lool> ogra: Don't hide, we know you're german
<ogra> just pulling the langpacks
<lool> ogra: Ok, thanks
<ogra> :P
<smp4488> now im getting acpi aborted because of junk in compressed archive(i asume because of the syslinux.cfg edit)
<lool> ogra: Then we'd need to tell the release team about it
<ogra> right
<smp4488> then i get crc error and a kernel panic not syncing unable to mount root fs
<ogra> i suspect it affects other langs as well
<ogra> smp4488, that really sounds like a corrupted image
<ogra> how big is your usb key ? 
<smp4488> 1 gig
 * ogra hasnt tried with 1Gig but it should suffice 
<ogra> how did you write it to the key ? 
<smp4488> with the disk image utility
<persia> which disk image utility?
<ogra> which one ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting this one ? 
<smp4488> yea but i used the command line
<smp4488> is there an iso for the mobile image?
<ogra> no
<ogra> only the img
<ogra> if you do: md5sum ubuntu-8.10-rc-mobile-i386.img
<ogra> do you get 0a6c824e3236bba21c37e729690f995d as return value ? 
<smp4488> i have to run inside im out in the garage right now
<ogra> all your errors look like the image or the usb key are broken
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> there he goes
<smp4488_> sorry
<ogra> ah, youre still here :)
<smp4488_> im quick
<smp4488_> 0a6c824e3236bba21c37e729690f995d  ubuntu-8.10-rc-mobile-i386.img
<smp4488_> is what i got
<smp4488_> so yes it matches
<ogra> looks fine
<smp4488_> i am at a loss this boots on my macbook fine
<ogra> same usb key ? 
<smp4488_> yea but i did try to make changes on my laptop but they never saved
<smp4488_> think i may have messed something up?
<lool> It could hang in the bios if you had written to partition instead of to disk, but that's not where it hangs
<lool> smp4488_: Could be lack of hw support; what's your hw again?
<smp4488_> its a via motherboard x86
<lool> Ah you said Ubuntu works on it though
<lool> So no idea really
<smp4488_> yea
<ogra> lool, german mid install ... same prob by default 
<smp4488_> i have tried disabling acpi in the bios also, no luck
<ogra> no kourou
<lool> Ok; and with bzr kourou?
<ogra> how much ram does your laptop have ? 
<smp4488_> a gig and so does the pc
<ogra> no reason then
<smp4488_> like i said the cd only boots with the noapic
<lool> Oh, and you didn't manage to pass it to usb?
<lool> smp4488_: You need to pass in the full cmdline plus noapic, or you need to edit syslinux.cfg to add it
<smp4488_> no and editing syslinux.cfg creates errors on startup
<lool> Your editor might be messing up things perhaps?
<ogra> lool, which branch ? 
<smp4488_> hmm how would i boot totally from the command line?
 * ogra sees 4 branches 
<smp4488_> branches?
<ogra> smp4488_, unrelated to your prob 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> lool, ^^^
<smp4488_> thought so, what does bs=1024 mean at the end of the image creation?
<ogra> make sure the blocks are written in the proper size to not have corruption during write
<persia> blocksize.  It seems the larger one makes this, the less likely the image is to be corrupt.
<persia> Personally, I use 1024k, but that eats RAM.
<ogra> 1024 is a proper value
<smp4488_> so that has nothing to do with it
<ogra> well, you should use it
<smp4488_> i just re wrote the image lets go test it out
<ogra> else your image might be corrupt
<smp4488_> ok
<ogra> so you have to bribe it all the time 
<smp4488__> cross your fingers
 * ogra tries, but cant type then :)
<persia> ogra, jjuastg hjuirt asnd peckj wrth xcreosswed finjgers
<ogra> hehe
<smp4488__> acpi unable to load system description tables
<smp4488__> and no commands work at prompt
<smp4488__> if it helps i had the mid image running last week
<smp4488__> sorry
<smp4488__> so what now?
<lool> ogra: lp:kourou
<ogra> lool, StevenK, fix works 
<ogra> but 
<ogra> none of the categories using umplauts have content
<ogra> *umlauts
<ogra> Accessories -> ZubehÃ¶r ... Office -> BÃ¼ro ... both are empty
<lool> ogra: Good catch
<lool> ogra: I have the same issue
<ogra> the rest is fine 
<lool> With Son et vidÃ©o
<ogra> and it doesnt crash anymore
<lool> I can launch apps
<smp4488__> can i piggyback off the live cd?
<ogra> synaptic works
<lool> ogra: Can you file the kourou bug?
<ogra> will do
<lool> ogra: Apps with Ã© launch here; just some menus are empty
<ogra> else it looks fine now
<ogra> right, apps with umlauts are fine 
<lool> Oh "Preferences"
<lool> Should actually be PrÃ©fÃ©rences
<lool> Same issue as All and Home
<ogra> thats our fault
<lool> (which I reported already)
<ogra> no translations for kourou
<lool> ogra: It's not translatable, and it shouldn't be set in kourou.py anyway
<lool> This should all be written using .menu logic and intltoolized
<ogra> right
 * ogra reports an upstream bug :)
<ogra> bah
<ogra> or not
<lool> Please do
<ogra> cant, have to file in ubuntus kuourou
<persia> I discussed that with upstream earlier, and understood that there was a plan to .menu all and preferences : it just took time.
<persia> ogra, upstream disabled bug reporting?
<ogra> persia, upstream disabled upstream bug reporting
<ogra> LP pushes me to report in ubuntu
<ogra> lool, bug 288767
<persia> I wonder why that wasn't done before.  upstream didn't want any bugs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288767 in kourou "Categores with special chars (like umlauts) are empty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288767
<ogra> lool, critical or not ? 
<lool> high
<ogra> can you confirm as second person ? 
<smp4488__> how many kernel images are on the usb image/
<ogra> one
<ogra> the same as used on the CD
<iz8dwf> hello all
<smp4488__> this is driving me nuts
<iz8dwf> would this be a good place to ask for help in troubleshooting a quite annoying audio problem on a laptop? (ubuntu 8.04.1)
<lool> ogra: I can't nominate the bug for intrepid
<smp4488__> maby it is thi thumb drive but it boots on my laptop
<ogra> lool, oh ? why ? 
<lool> "OOPS"
<ogra> ouch
 * ogra tries instead
<ogra> bah, me too
<smp4488__> what is the name of the kernel casper/vmlinuz
<lool> ogra: StevenK probably went to bed; would you be tempted to look into it.
<lool> s/./?
<ogra> after a break, yes
<smp4488__> GOT IT!
<smp4488__> wait lol got another kernel panic
<smp4488__> vfs cannot open root device
<lool> ogra: Happening with non-edge right?
<ogra> right
<ogra> i sadi so already
<smp4488__> what would i use for root= ?
<smp4488__> during boot
<lool> smp4488__: The same thing as in syslinux.cfg :)
<smp4488__> what is it so i dont have to reboot
<smp4488__> /dev/ram0
<lool>   kernel casper/vmlinuz
<lool>   append file=/cdrom/preseed/mobile.seed boot=casper initrd=initrd.img persistent quiet splash noprompt
<lool> smp4488__: You want: boot: casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/mobile.seed boot=casper initrd=initrd.img persistent quiet splash noprompt
<ogra>  /dev/ram0 ?? where did you get that from ? 
<smp4488__> google
<smp4488__> kernel panic again unable to mount root fs
<ogra> really weird
<ogra> can you edit syslinux.cfg and remove "quiet splash" at the end ? 
<ogra> that will give you a lot more info
<smp4488__> i can type it in without it
<ogra> or that
 * ogra usually prefers to edit syslinux.cfg :)
<smp4488__> everytime i edit syslinux.config i get errors
<lool> smp4488__: I suspect you need to use a more careful editor   :-/
<smp4488__> it says the image is corrupt if i edit it
<ogra> yeah, might be the editor
<ogra> or you are not unmounting it properly at the end
<ogra> who knows what machos does there
<ogra> *macos :P
<smp4488__> ok without quiet and splash i get the correct root= option
 * ogra wonders why Cheese in german is called "Cheese-Website"
<ogra> on my desktop its only "Cheese" in the menu
<persia> To avoid confusion with Japanese umbrellas?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> japanese use cheese to cover from rain ? 
<ogra> i knew they have weird ideas sometimes ... but not that weird :)
<ogra> the smeelier the cheese the less wet you get ? :)
<ogra> *smellier
<persia> No, it's just that ãã can sound like kÃ¤se when both are slightly mispronounced.
<ogra> heh
<smp4488__> it has worked
<ogra> :)
<smp4488__> i added noapci and acpi=off and took out quiet and splash
<smp4488__> im looking at the desktop
<smp4488__> now installing should be an adventure
<smp4488__> persia you back
<persia> Yes.
<smp4488__> i got it
<ogra-Q1> moo
<persia> ogra has super cow powers?
<ogra-Q1> lol
 * ian_brasil_ kicks network manager
<ian_brasil_> ah been bitten by #182489 on an upgrade yesterday
<persia> bug #182489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182489 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "Atheros wireless (AR5007) not working on various laptops, including the ASUS Eee PC" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182489
<persia> ian_brasil_, Install linux-backports-modules for now.
<persia> There should be a copy of the .deb on the mobile image to make this easier, if you happen to have a recent mobile image around.
<ian_brasil_> persia: thx..i tried to enable the atheros card in the hardware manager but that did not work ..acer aspire one
<ogra> ian_brasil_, linux-backports-modules is in the /debs directory on the image
<persia> ian_brasil_, Yep.  That's one of the affected models.  Also Eee 701 and 901, Samsung Q1U.  Bunch of others.
<ethana2> Any Ubuntu Netbook people present and awake today?
<james_w> ethana2: if you have a question it is better to ask it, someone may be able to help
<ethana2> still about the window-picker-applet
<ethana2> you know, the best applet of its kind
<ethana2> ever to grace this rock
<ethana2> ...needs to be able to minimize/unminimize windows by clicking on their entries
<ethana2> like with the window list applet
<ethana2> james_w: have you seen my screenshots?
<ogra> file a whishlist bug so that can be added in jaunty
<ethana2> http://i35.tinypic.com/inbix2.png
<ethana2> Well, I was using PPAs with Hardy, using PPAs with Intrepid won't kill me either
 * ethana2 tries to file enhancement
<ethana2> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+package/window-picker-applet
<ethana2> uhhh, i don't see how I can file this, the options are greyed out, even after I logged in
<james_w> ubuntu-bug window-picker-applet
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/window-picker-applet
<ogra> or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/window-picker-applet/+filebug
<james_w> "ubuntu-bug -p window-picker-applet" I mean, sorry
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/window-picker-applet/+bug/288812
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 288812 in window-picker-applet "Windows cannot be minimized and un-minimized by clicking their entry in the applet." [Undecided,New] 
<ethana2> ..are there any changes I should make to that report?
<persia> lool, Just reproduced 288320 : I can force the install locale to be en_US, or we can depend on networking.  A proper fix looks deep and complicated (although I can investigate this)
<ogra> lool, got the fix for bug 288767 ... attached
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288767 in kourou "Categores with special chars (like umlauts) are empty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288767
<persia> ogra, That's a two-line patch :p  Nice find.
<ogra> one
<ogra> oh, right, the first line can even go
<persia> Read the patch.  Line 1 + line 106/107
<ogra> i'm just used to have it like that :)
<ogra> 106/107 are the ones needed
<ogra> line 1 just makes sure that utf8 code or comments will be repected
<ogra> *respected
<persia> Right.
<persia> line 1 is immaterial : it's just there.
 * ogra cleans that up
<persia> Next question : why only there?  What about line 103?
<ogra> it doesnt break ?
<ogra> i woud write it completely different if i couldnt count the hours to final freeze 
<ogra> thats actually the thing that breaks and if i can fix it with a single line i'll do that
<ogra> lool, can you test that fix in french ? 
<lool> ogra: Which one?
<lool> ogra: Ok, will test
<ogra> bug 288767
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288767 in kourou "Categores with special chars (like umlauts) are empty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288767
<ogra> the second one 
<ogra> first patch has unneeded extra cruft
<lool> Erf
<ogra> erf ? 
<lool> I would have bet that we would end with a str(smth) in the source
<lool> But we ended up with an unicode(smth) :)
<lool> erf == lol
<ogra> ah :)
<lool> arf, urf
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i would really love to find a better way for the blurry scaled icons as well
<ogra> looks ugly
<ogra> but i fear thats nothing to get past the release team and would be more than a one liner
<lool> persia: Re: 288320, what I'd love to see is good documentation of what breaks and why and long term correct fix; if you know a quick fix, you can discuss with cjwatson whether to include it
<persia> quick fix is to preseed en_US
<lool> persia: But then one can't change the lang?
<persia> Only post-install, which is why I don't like it.
<lool> ogra: Works fine, well done!
<ogra> :)
<persia> Slightly less ugly workaround is to add a bunch of langpacks to the image, but that requires modification to livecd-rootfs.
<lool> ogra: Hmm do you see synaptic?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> in preferences
<lool> Oh right, I didn't upgrade to Steve's package yet; only kourou.py
<ogra> even with a proper "Synaptic Paketverwaltung"
<ogra> the only odd thing is Cheese
<ogra> called "Cheese Website" in german
<lool> Studio Webcam Cheese
<ogra> in english it was ok
<ogra> and in my desktop its just called Cheese
<ogra> not sure where it gets -Website from
<ogra> well, its like that in the german translation in the .desktop file
<lool> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/cheese-q1u-2008-10-24-203354.jpg
<lool> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/cheese-q1u-2008-10-24-203542.jpg
<lool> ogra: Can you push kourou with this change?
 * ogra is just looking at the icon stuff
<lool> what icon stuff?
<ogra> they are very very blurry and badly scaled
<lool> ogra: svg isn't included
<lool> I filed a bug about this
<ogra> it will still pick xpm
<lool> It asks for png as well
<ogra> svg should be the only one in that list 
<lool> Don't think we have svg for everything
<ogra> and it should use gtk.ICON_SIZE_LARGE_TOOLBAR as base
<ogra> BUTTON is 24x24 
<ogra> LARGE_TOOLBAR is at least 36x36
<ogra> i dont seem to miss any icons with svg only
<ogra> and with LARGE_TOOLBAR a lot of them look better ... i.e. totem and therminal
<ogra> it seems to fall back to png or xpm anyway
 * ogra tries without scaling
<ogra> geez
<ogra> without scaling using DIALOG as base size all look crisp and clean, but the neverball icon is about 96x96
<persia> ogra, That icon was amusingly contentious, and resulted in long discussions with upstream.  You *really* want to scale.
<ogra> so i just found that xdg.IconPath.getIconPath doesnt use gtk iconsizes at all
<ogra> and why should it, its not a gtk function
<ian_brasil> i just ran a performance test on the gtk NewHumanMobile theme and it reported Total time: 748.88 second.the default Huma Clearlooks came in at 154.12
<ogra> well, the price for bling :)
<ogra> we can improve that in jaunty
<ogra> NewHumanMobile uses murrine as engine
<ian_brasil> yes, i saw that
<ogra> dont compare it with a low end engine ;)
<ian_brasil> fair point
<ogra> lool, why the heck does Steven use Human as default icon theme if human-icon-theme isnt installed at all ? 
<ogra> alone changing Human to gnome makes a huge improvement 
<ogra> since Human is nonexistent on the image
<lool> ogra: I think he has gnome too
 * ogra checks if installing human makes a difference
<lool> ogra: Can you make sure you upload the kourou fix for utf-8?
<ogra> if i hardcode gnome at the place where he uses Human i get proper crisp icons for most stuff
<lool> I'm going to go afk soonish
<lool> ogra: For other stuff about kourou: please file bugs :)
<lool> ogra: If you think it's worth it for intrepid, prepare the changes and propose an upload with them to StevenK
<ogra> yeah, well, then i'll also call it a day 
<ogra> nah
<ogra> i will just use mobile on my Q1 ... :P
 * ogra goes to prepare the upload
<davidm> please make sure to leave StevenK explicit directions if you need anything done.
<lool> ogra: Please file bugs for actual bugs which we care fixing on the long term though
<ogra> davidm, i'll do the upload myself 
 * lool waves
<ogra> lool, you said you had one for icons ? 
<lool> ogra: I have one for svg
<lool> Trying to grab it
<ogra> that should suffice to look into the icon loading stuff
<ogra> its a mess all over and needs rewrite, i think he just took my pre production code for it 
<lool> Weird, can't find it
 * lool goes to reported bugs
<ogra> well, i'll do the upload now
<lool> ogra: Can't find it sorry; I thought I had filed it
<lool> Pff I don't even find the bugs I reported yesterday *sigh*
<lool> Now I'm sure I reported it, I remember suggesting using a flag
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> how does steven do the versioning ? 
 * ogra doesnt get it ... 
<ogra> seems to be a native package but uses -0ubuntu1
<ogra> what version do i raise now ? 
<lool> Grr, I'm certain I reported it, and can't find it in my bug mailbox either
<ogra> -0 or ubuntu1 ? 
 * ogra is confused
<persia> ogra, Are you on the upstream dev team?
<lool> I give up
<ogra> the branch is woned by ~ubuntu-mobile
<ogra> *owned
<persia> ogra, If so, and you want to do a new upstream release, you can do that.  If not, push a new ubuntu revision (-0ubuntu2) and upstream can merge later.
<lool> lp:kourou?
<ogra> i'm member of that i think
<persia> Yes, but you have to publish the tarball if you do a new upstream.
<ogra> tarball ? 
<ogra> huh ?
<ogra> oh, for the package you mean
<ogra> hrm
 * lool is really becoming crazy and can't find the bug he reports
 * lool calls time for WE
<ogra> persia, only the orig.tar.gz, right ? 
<ogra> or is there any other place we publish tarballs
<persia> ogra, Actually, looks like upstream hasn't released a tarball, and we're just pulling VCS snapshots.  May as well push a new upstream if you like.
<ogra> ok
<elegos> hello there
<elegos> I've got a problem lol
<elegos> I've just tried to launch the live USB on my girlfriend's eeePC
<elegos> when the graphic should come up, it simply returns to the console :S
<elegos> (finishing the orange line)
<persia> that's unexpected.  It's Intel 945 graphics, right?
<elegos> uhm
<elegos> how can I check it?
<elegos> (but I think so)
<ogra> it should be, what image is that ? 
<elegos> the "current" one
<ogra> and which eee version
<elegos> 701 4GB
<ogra> can you tell us the exact image name ? 
<elegos> uhm
<elegos> wait
<ogra> "current" doesnt say much :)
<elegos> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current/
<elegos> that current one xD
<ogra> well, you should have used rc ... but they are essentially the same
<ogra> http://releases.ubuntu.com/intrepid/
<elegos> can try it
<elegos> now I'm on a windows machine XD
<ogra> how much ram does the ee have ? 
<elegos> how can I mount the image on the USB?
<elegos> 512MB
<ogra> that should be plenty 
<ogra> and many peope use that image on a eee 700 
<ogra> we also had reports about eee 900
<ogra> so its a bit weird it doesnt work for you
<elegos> how could I check it?
<elegos> maybe via X11/xorg.xonf?
<elegos> conf*
<elegos> using vesa?
<elegos> p.s. nano seems to not be installed...
<ogra> well, the image is for touchscreen UMPCs ... 
<ogra> these rarely even have physical keyboards :)
<elegos> lol
<ogra> though i thought nano is pulled in by ubuntu-standard
<elegos> damnit xD
<elegos> and... now?
<ogra> check Xorg.0.log
<elegos> where is it?
<ogra> where all log files are :) /var/log
<ogra> less or more are installed to read logfiles
<ian_brasil>  669.08 for the MurrinaFancyCandy theme on mobile
<ogra> so mobile isnt to far away from a default theme shipped with the engine
<ian_brasil> right
<ogra> thats fine with me 
<elegos> _XSERVTranceSocketCreateListener: failed to bind listener
<ogra> ian_brasil, btw i'll reply soon about the book thing, i'm intrested, was just to busy (not much sleep the last days)
<elegos> [...]
<elegos> fatal server error:
<ogra> what driver does it pick
<ogra> there should be many lines starting with a driver name 
<ian_brasil> that is 156.82 on a normal intrepid laptop..same theme
<ogra> like VESA or INTEL
<elegos> Cannot establish any listening sockets - make sure an x server isn't already running
<ian_brasil> ogra: cool no problem
<ian_brasil> i wonder why the figures are so different..maybe processor spped and ram but that seems a lot
<elegos> how can I check it?
<elegos> how can I check the driver loaded?
<ogra> its should show all over the logfile 
<ogra> lines usually start with the driver name 
<ogra> like VESA or INTEL
<ogra> elegos, it fails in the live session already ? or is that after install ? 
<elegos> live session
<ogra> strange
<elegos> i try to restart it so I can have fresh logs
<ogra> there is definately a driver for the eee 700 in the image and other people are running it on that hw without probs
<elegos> is there a special parameter for "safe mode"?
<ogra> nope
<elegos> Xorg.0.log says:
<elegos> _XSERVTransSocketCreateListener: failed to bind listener
<ogra> no idea, sorry
<elegos> _XSERVTransSocketUNIXCreateListener: ...SocketCreateLietener() failed
<ogra> james_w, you had an eee 700, right ? 
<elegos> Intel 915GM Chipset
<ogra> yes, thats supported by the intel driver
<ogra> which is on the image
<elegos> downloading the RC image...
<ogra> when did you download current ? 
<elegos> today
<ogra> well, shouldnt be different then
<elegos> u.u
<elegos> can I manually set vesa drivers @ boot?
<ogra> not that i know 
<ogra> try sunning startx in the console in which you are now
 * ogra really needs to go ... 
<ogra> *running startx
<elegos> fatal server error: cannot establish any listening sockets - make sure an x server isn't already running
<elegos> then - giving up
<ogra> ctrl-alt-f7 ?
<elegos> xinit: stale NFS file handle (errno 116)
<ogra> huh ? 
<elegos> just a blinking cursor
<ogra> what are you running there  ? 
<ogra> NFS file handle ? 
<elegos> lol it is just that
<elegos> xinit: Stale NFS file handle (errno 116): imable to connect to X server
<ogra> well, there is something wonky going on and  wouldnt know why a live image should complain about nfs filehandles
<elegos> unalble*
<ogra> there isnt any nfs technology on it
<ogra> are you sure you boot the right thing ?
<elegos> u.u yes?
<elegos> p.s. I had to disable wlan and lan because else it would loop trying to set up the net config
<ogra> ??
<elegos> from bios
<elegos> onboard devices
<ogra> network gets only set up by network manager
<elegos> wait I'll tell you the exact step
<ogra> which runs in the graphical session
<ogra> so there cant be any loop in the image
<elegos> have you put wicd in the distro?
<ogra> at least not before your xserver is up
<ogra> i dont even know what wicd is
<elegos> lol?
<ogra> but in any case you *cant* have any networking loop during boot 
<ogra> not before X is up
<elegos> you're saying it's just like the live image is loading up it using my files on my hard disk?!?
<ogra> no
<ogra> its only using its own files on the squshfs thats included in the image
<ogra> *squashfs
<elegos> Configuring network interfaces...
<elegos> this is where it stops... waiting...
<elegos> oh another error
<elegos> Activating swapfile swap... [OK]
<elegos> then
<ogra> how big is the USB key you boot from ? 
<elegos> find './.X11-unix/X0': Stale NFS file handle
<elegos> 2GB
<ogra> and how did you copy the image over to it ? 
<ogra> that really doesnt look like you are booting the mobile image
<elegos> with the dd method
<elegos> how can I import the image via windows? (now I'm writing from it)
<ogra> there might be a DD.exe for windows somewhere 
<ogra> did you try to install ubuntu on the eee before ? 
<ogra> sounds like its booting a broken local install or something
<ogra> anyway, had a 14h day, i'm out now ... 
 * ogra waves
<elegos> here I am
<elegos> currently running ubuntu eee :P
<ian_brasil> GtkDrawingArea takes 140 secs with HumanMobileTheme but 70secs on MurrinaFancyCandy
<ian_brasil> with text that is
<ian_brasil> wonder how to work out why
<persia> ian_brasil, strace -r might help.
<persia> It at least tells you the relative time between some bits, and you might be able to piece together the place where it's slow.
<ian_brasil> persia: ok..i will try that
<persia> Hmm.  strace has some other timing options.  I'm not sure which is best.  man strace might give you other options.
<elegos> persia: can I do anything for my eeePC?
<persia> elegos, Not sure exactly.  I don't know how it's broken, nor do I really understand what the hardware is exactly.
<persia> For wireless, I think linux-backports-modules should work.
<persia> I don't know about X, as nobody has yet reported an issue with the graphics drivers.
 * davidm is away: 
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-25
<Beacon11> Hey guys
<persia> Hey Beacon11 
<Beacon11> I have a question
<persia> which one?
<Beacon11> I have a via pico itx (really teeny motherboard) and I have a project I'm working on with it. Sounds big, but I have the university of idaho behind me. Basically, I'm making a really small tablet PC
<Beacon11> And initially (this project started a little over a year ago) I was running kubuntu on it
<Beacon11> I'm using a lilliput 629GL 7-inch touchscreen
<Beacon11> And a few days ago, I saw a blog post about ubuntu mobile
<Beacon11> I immediately threw away kubuntu after trying ubuntu mobile live
<Beacon11> But... now I'm having issues getting my touchscreen working
<Beacon11> And I'm not sure if its ubuntu mobile itself, or simply the fact that it's 8.10 now and something changed
<Beacon11> My initial question is this: should the calibration utility included work with my touchscreen?
<persia> The calibration utility only works with touchscreens supported by the evtouch driver (I think).  No idea if yours falls into that category.
<Beacon11> It does, evtouch is what I used to get it working previously
<Beacon11> But I couldn't get the utility to work before either :P
<Beacon11> So I ended up hacking xorg.conf to work correctly
<Beacon11> Yeah... took a while
<persia> The utility has changed completely since 8.04.  The version in 8.04 didn't work for any screens.
<persia> You might need an .fdi file for your screen though, if it's sufficiently special.
<Beacon11> Hmmm... well I tested the calibration, and it then restarted X, and nothing changed. No changes to my xorg.conf either
<Beacon11> What exactly is the utility supposed to do?
<Beacon11> Oh
<Beacon11> Hmm
<Beacon11> You're over my head thereâÂ what's a .fdi file?
<persia> I think the utility writes some hints for the size metric for the screen.  I forget what fdi is supposed to mean, but it's a file to help HAL set the properties for a given piece of hardware.
<persia> (and I'm talking over my head as well, so apologies if something is lost in translation)
<Beacon11> Don't worry about it, sounds like you know more than I do!
<Beacon11> Okay, I can work on that. However... even if the calibration isn't working like I need it to, in kubuntu I just basically followed the directions here http://www.conan.de/touchscreen/evtouch.html and it worked. I created a udev rule for it, but other than that, I followed those directions
<Beacon11> But now, when I make those changes to ubuntu mobile's xorg.conf (which is very sparse compared to what I'm used to seeing) x fails to restart
<Beacon11> What's different now?
<persia> 8.04 vs. 8.10.  If you grab the Kubuntu 8.10 RC, you'll get the same sparse xorg.conf.
<Beacon11> For instance, in the xorg.xonf generated by ubuntu-mobile, there IS no section "ServerLayout"
<Beacon11> Ah!
<persia> X 1.5 is using XInput2 hotplug to determine the input devices from HAL.
<Beacon11> Okay, so this has completely changed
<persia> Yep.  Some stuff works *lots* better, like adding USB or bluetooth mice to laptops.  Some stuff needs different sorts of hacking, like touchscreens.
<Beacon11> Hey, I'm all for improvement. So do you think that looking for the correct .fdi file for my monitor is my best bet?
<persia> As the body of knowledge about hardware grows, the appropriate hints can be given to HAL so it works for everyone : that way once a known hack for xorg.conf exists, it can be given automatically to everyone with that hardware, rather than people passing around snippets on web pages.
<persia> Unfortunately, the data collection part is still underway, so it is a little harder to get stuff that doesn't work by default working for now.
<Beacon11> Ooo, I think it's worth it
<Beacon11> What a great idea
<persia> Well, .fdi file for the touchscreen : I suspect the display function works fine.
<Beacon11> Oh... yeah, you're right
<Beacon11> Also, I say this blog post http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/ubuntu-mobile-edition-news-and-first-boot-video
<persia> Yeah.  I'm entirely in favour of the idea, even though it breaks a few things.  It's completely worth it.
<Beacon11> In the comments, ogra said to email him lshal output, and he'll add support in the next image
<Beacon11> Would you recommend that?
<persia> I think he underestimated the number of people who would install Ubuntu Mobile :)  I'd recommend filing a bug against xserver-xorg-input-evdev with your lshal output.
<persia> ogra will still see it, but it also gets tracked, and you'll automatically get an email when it is closed.
<Beacon11> Ha! Well I consider that GOOD news
<persia> I also :)
<Beacon11> Okay, well I'll definitely file that bug. Not having much luck with an fdi file for my touchscreen though... I may just have to wait
<persia> Well, I think the HAL package has some docs on generating an .fdi file.  If you look at the ones that come with the xserver-xorg-input-evdev package, you might be able to generate one for your device.
<Beacon11> Hey, good idea
<persia> (attaching a working .fdi file to a bug is even more likely to get it supported than attaching lshal output only (but please also include lshal if attaching an .fdi file)
<persia> This is the best part of open source :)  One can fix one's own bugs.
<Beacon11> Hahaha, I can't even decide what the best part is
<Beacon11> Maybe that if you can't fix your own bug, you're nearly guaranteed someone else can ;)
<persia> Personally, I think all the other good bits come from someone else fixing it before I noticed the bug :)
<persia> (because they could fix their own bugs)
<Beacon11> True, true
<Beacon11> Hey, does umobile include all .fdi files? For instance... could I hunt one down somewhere on my system for another touchscreen?
<persia> It doesn't include *all* .fdi files : the idea is to only include the ones each driver needs.  The xserver-xorg-input-evtouch package contains a few touchscreen .fdi files.
<Beacon11> Okay, thanks :)
<Beacon11> Alright... in a bug report, I found an fdi file for an eGalax touchscreen from Samsung. My touchscreen, although from lilliput, also identifies as eGalax. Do you think this fdi file could potentially work?
<persia> Quite possibly.  Drop it in /etc/hal/fdi/policy and see if it helps.
<Beacon11> Alright
<Beacon11> An fdi file has a line that says this: <match key="info.product" contains="Touchkit Touch">
<Beacon11> Would that info.product be the line printed in dmesg by any change?
<persia> It would be the info.product entry from lshal.
<Beacon11> Ah!
<Beacon11> I think this is going to work
<Beacon11> So my touchscreen tells lshal what it's capable of, basically?
<persia> Right.  And then the drivers ask hal which devices they should manage.
<persia> The .fdi files are the glue that makes this work.
<Beacon11> Nice! Actually... this is a lot cleaner than hacking the xorg.conf. I just put all the dirty details in the .fdi file. It almost looks exactly the same!
<Beacon11> Okay... so using the .fdi files, I don't need udev rules anymore do I?
<Beacon11> (for my touchscreen, that is)
<Beacon11> Because hal, using the fdi files, grabs it wherever it is anyway?
<persia> You probably still need the udev rules to create the devices for HAL to monitor, unless your udev rule was just to get a static name for xorg.conf.
<Beacon11> I was thinking it was just to get a static name for xorg. But here's what I have, you can tell me if I'm right:
<Beacon11> KERNEL=="event*", SUBSYSTEM=="input", ATTRS{name}=="eGalax Inc.", SYMLINK+="input/evtouch_event"
<persia> I think you can drop that.  Try it without it first.
<Beacon11> Sure thing
<persia> It ought take two of input/event*
<Beacon11> So I see all these input.x11_options.* in my lshal. Are those default values? If I don't have an option in my fdi, it'll resort to those values?
<Beacon11> For instance: in my lshal, I see input.x11_options.taptimer = '30' (string)
<Beacon11> Does that mean that a line like the following is unneeded in my fdi file? <merge key="input.x11_options.taptimer" type="string">30</merge>
<persia> I suspect that comes from your .fdi file.
<persia> If you get that without a .fdi file, then yes, you don't need it.
<Beacon11> I do get that without an fdi file
<Beacon11> Okay, cool
<persia> Then you probably don't need it.
<Beacon11> So now, say I have this fdi file. The calibration utility writes to it, I'm assuming?
<Beacon11> So the fact that I had no fdi file means the calibration utility had nothing to write to...?
<persia> I think the calibration utility writes to somewhere else, although I'll admit to not really understanding it.
<Beacon11> Okay, no problem
<Beacon11> Ha! Persia, you're a lifesaver. My touchscreen is now working :)
<Beacon11> Thank you so much for your help
<Beacon11> I will now file a bug report
<persia> Beacon11, Thanks for porting Ubuntu to work with your hardware :)
<Beacon11> I can't wait for this ubuntu-mobile thing to go further... it's exactly what I needed to bring my project to the next step
<Beacon11> So anything I can do to help ;)
<persia> Well, this week, not so much.  Archive freeze is tomorrow or so, and then there's release processing, etc.
<persia> Next release prep doesn't start until mid November or so.
<Beacon11> All I care about is that work is continuing
<persia> At that point, if you want to test the upcoming version, and help submit patches to fix even more bugs, I'm sure they would be accepted.
<Beacon11> Nice
<persia> I don't see any reason why it should stop.  It seems popular, and the release team is willing to distribute it.  As long as we all test and submit patches, it should become what we all want.
<Beacon11> Good, I was worried about the user base
<persia> Well, since it's never been released, that's probably pretty small right now.  I expect it will get larger.
<Beacon11> Good
<Beacon11> It's awfully well done for a beta
<persia> I've been showing it off on some of my devices, and people are interested.  You might do the same, if you want to get more people involved.
<Beacon11> There are only a few complaints I have (and the touchscreen isn't one of them)
<persia> Well, it's based on a strong foundation :)
<Beacon11> Yeah!
<Beacon11> Actually
<persia> What sort of complaints?  I could probably point you in the right direction for them.
<Beacon11> I'm a computer engineering major at the university of idaho, and I've been asking advise from several professors, who have requested to see the project ;)
<Beacon11> Oh, just beta ones, like how polished the web browser is (with the button to switch from drag to select, etc) but then with the previewer, that little toolbar isn't there and I need to use a fingernail to scroll
<Beacon11> Teeny things
<persia> Dunno how much of that will be fixed for release : it's probably worth filing bugs.  I think there's only a few packages getting updated between now and release.
<Beacon11> Alright, I'll mention it. They aren't really bugs even... just preferences
<Beacon11> I kinda feel guilty :P
<Beacon11> But for me, that little toolbar at the bottom of the screen for the web browser would be very handy to have for other applications
<persia> If you think they're just preferences ask someone in #ubuntu-bugs to set them to wishlist after filing them.
<Beacon11> Ah, good idea
<persia> That's actually part of the browser : it would have to be done per-program.  I agree that it'd be neat to pull the iconbar from the top to the bottom though, although I don't know how that would be done globally.
<Beacon11> I'm thinking make that toolbar more of an applet. That way, one could make it launch with certain programs
<Beacon11> Welll... applet... I guess I'm thinking more of a plugin
<Beacon11> Used to ruby web apps :P
<persia> I guess.  A lot of programs I use have a button bar on the top on the desktop.  I'd think it would be easier just to find a way to pull that to the bottom.
<Beacon11> True
<Beacon11> Uh ohh... I had a working fdi file, but it wasn't quite on. So I ran the calibrator... and now it's all messed up. So I thought "Okay, hopefully it just edited my fdi file and I can copy back over it." But no... the fdi file is the same. How do I make it forget the calibration? :P
<Beacon11> I can't find much info about that
<persia> I don't know.  Maybe xorg.conf?
<Beacon11> Nope. Aw dang!
<Beacon11> It's gonna be somewhere that's gonna make me feel stupid, I know it
<persia> Fastest way is probably to look at the source for the calibration tool.
<Beacon11> To be honest I've never done that before. How would I go about this?
<Beacon11> The evtouch home page?
<persia> mkdir evtouch-source; cd evtouch-source; apt-get source xserver-xorg-input-evtouch
<Beacon11> Thank you :)
<Beacon11> Never done the apt-get source, I'll remember that
<persia> The goal is to make it easy, to encourage patches :)
<Beacon11> I assume you've used this utility, correct?
<persia> Only a couple times.  I never investigated it in depth.  One of my touchscreens isn't evtouch, and the other just works.
<Beacon11> Oh, gotcha
<persia> I do a lot of apt-get source though, if you have questions about that :)
<Beacon11> Hmm.... this code prints to the screen, the utility doesn't
<persia> That's very confusing.  That code is what generates the utility.
<Beacon11> It prints to a relative output file, and the screen. I have a hunch the final utility grabs the screen output and does something with it
<Beacon11> Where is that code... *searching*
<Beacon11> Because that was only the c code, not the sh
<persia> That sounds like a reasonable theory.
<Beacon11> Dang... what does "mknod /tmp/ev_calibrate p" do?
<Beacon11> Nevermind, man pages
<persia> I think it creates a named pipe (man mknod may be helpful).
<Beacon11> Well... I know that with this code, it requires the option Calibrate to be 1, and the reporting mode must be raw. However, I read elsewhere (now for some reason I can't remember where... maybe the bug reports) that the utility takes care of that
<Beacon11> If that's the case... then the code for that isn't exactly the same. Right?
<persia> I'm not sure.
<Beacon11> Okay... so the code communicates using fifos, which is what the mknod did
<Beacon11> Ah
<Beacon11> The calibration utility USES this code
<Beacon11> But it is indeed seperate code
<Beacon11> separate...
<Beacon11> The utility is calibrate_touchscreen, which calls ev_calibrate. ev_calibrate is the compiled version of this code
<Beacon11> So... I need the source for calibrate_touchscreen. How would I do that?
<Beacon11> Oh... it's just a shell
<Beacon11> Duh
<Beacon11> Oh clever
<Beacon11> Too bad I haven't done more of this :S
<persia> It's a great time to get started : you can get familiar with the processes, and be all prepared for archive open :)
<Beacon11> No kidding! I still can't figure out where it puts that info though! It seemed like everything in the program were tmps, but there's a fifo that remains constant in all of theseâÂ tmp/ev_calibrate. The program reads from it, then closes it. These scripts create it, call the program, them remove it. I can't figure out anything beyond that, really :P
<persia> Odd.  It has to store it somewhere.
<Beacon11> Yeah... it tosses the screen output of the program to /dev/null, it seems
<Beacon11> But although I can program, my in-depth linux experience is still relatively weak. I think I'm losing something there
 * persia finds https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/intrepid-changes/2008-September/007575.html which provides a clue, and suggests looking in the changelog for more
<Beacon11> Hmm
<Beacon11> No way :P
<Beacon11> Oh man, it's right there!
<Beacon11> \/etc/evtouch/config
<persia> changelogs are cool :)
<Beacon11> (don't irc often enough to know how to bypass the forward slash)
<persia> space
<Beacon11> Oh :P
<Beacon11> Hmm, the log also says that it includes .fdi files to eGalax screens. Why wasn't one installed for my setup?
<persia> It was : remember you said you found a .fdi file for the Samsung eGalax screen?
<persia> Apparently that file didn't also work for yours.
<Beacon11> Online, though
<Beacon11> It wasn't included in the installation
<persia> You might want to look under /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy ...
<Beacon11> Ooo
<Beacon11> Quite a collection, actually
<Beacon11> Hey persia... I tweaked the fdi file until it works well. Should I just commend on this bug or file my own? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/261873
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 261873 in xf86-input-evtouch "make evtouch devices work with hal-input in intrepid" [High,Fix released] 
<Beacon11> comment, rather
<elegos> hello there
<elegos> any news about mounting Ubuntu-Mobile under eeePC?
<elegos> does the ubuntu-mobile appear in the list of the netinstall disk?
<persia> Beacon11, I'd recommend a new bug.
<elegos> here I am
<persia> elegos, ubuntu-mobile doesn't appear in the list of the netinstall disk.
<elegos> u.u ok
<persia> Other people have reported success with installing on an Eee, so I'm not sure what's different for you.
<elegos> is there a way to alternatively install ubuntu mobile?
<elegos> reading from the net I read something about JeOS but they were still speaking about Hardy
<elegos> uhm
<elegos> if I install a command line system
<elegos> may I then install ubuntu-mobile as a metapackage?
<persia> Sure.  That should work.  Or install all of ubuntu-desktop first.
<elegos> I think that I can't install intrepid on 4GB :P
<elegos> not a problem: dhclient eth0 && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-mobile :)
<persia> intrepid should be fine for 4G.
<popey> 14:43:15 < ogra> persia, popey had to install lbm on a 700 iirc
<popey> a 900 actually :)
<elegos> the netinstall asked me if I want to use the "recompiled" packages... are those the backports I need?
<elegos> hey! there is ubuntu mobile as choice in the netinstall !!! :D
 * persia is pleasantly surprised, and wonders how it works.
 * elegos is hoping it'll work :P
<elegos> the installation is stuck on the configuration of "scrollkeeper" (or something like that)... the HD is doing something, but it's about 5 minutes there... what should it be?
<elegos> no problem... it's still goiing on :P
<persia> That step takes a frustratingly long time.  Just wait.
<elegos> on eeePC is also longer then a normal PC
<persia> Depends on the normal PC :)
<ian_brasil> mo mention of mobile on http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-8-10-Release-Candidate-Screenshot-Tour-96353.shtml
<ian_brasil> :(
<persia> That's OK.  There wasn't a lot of mention of Mobile in the RC announcement.  We need to get the wiki pages organised for the real release, and add a proper note.  That should get some attention.
<persia> Personally, I'm glad not to have too much press before we have a decent landing site.
<elegos> what is the package I have to install for the Atheros wifi card?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-26
<pururu> i have horrible slowdowns like 20 seconds between switching tabs in browser (only few are opened), slow scrolling of text in terminal, etc.
<persia> Which browser?  Which environment?
<pururu> this is acer aspire one netbook
<pururu> default ubuntu-mobile
<pururu> so, i think maybe xfce fit better for aspire one. cuz linpus (default os) uses xfce. but linpus have slowdowns too
<pururu> anything like xubuntu-mobile exist? or i may try regular xubuntu
<persia> Hrm.  I'm not at all sure if you're running the default, as others have reported success with the same hardware.  If you run gnome-system-monitor, does it show any resources fully used?
<persia> I haven't heard of a xubuntu-mobile.  The icons may be a bit small, but it ought to work.
<pururu> actually gnome system monitor itself uses like 20-30 % of cpu, maybe even more
<persia> Yeah.  gnome-system-monitor isn't that lightweight, but it can help show if something else is also using too much.
<persia> Also, whlie it uses 20-30% for a while after startup, it should calm down within 30-60 seconds.
<persia> But the important questions are : aside from gnome-system-monitor, is something else using all the CPU, or are you low on memory?
<pururu> what tweaks should be applied after ubuntu-mobile install? like described here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AspireOne  ? i have not applied all of them, only part
<pururu> 300 of 490 memory used, and nothing else use cpu right now (browser is in background and it uses 0 %)
<persia> I don't happen to have such a device, but I suspect most of the things that apply to Desktop should also apply to Mobile, except perhaps for visual adjustments.
<pururu> switching tabs in pidgin is slow too (but not nearly as bad as in browser)
<persia> 300 of 490 doesn't sound like a lot of pressure.  Try (with gnome-system-monitor running), switching to the browser and switching tabs a couple times, then look back at gnome-system-monitor to see if there are CPU spikes at that time.
<pururu> just moving mouse rise cpu use to 90% (1st core)
<persia> OK.  That's bad.  Do you have desktop effects enabled?
<pururu> no
<pururu> maybe i should enable medium effects
<pururu> cuz full effects make system slow too
<persia> I'd recommend disabling effects entirely, as from what you describe, it sounds like you're processing the events on your CPU, rather than a GPU, which tends to be slow.
<pururu> compiz should offload processing to GPU instead of CPU, but will it be better with this integrated mobile gpu?
<pururu> ..
<persia> Well, compiz offloads processing to the openGL engine, which may or may not be the GPU.
<persia> Whether it works well with the integrated mobile GPU depends on how well that driver works.  Which GPU?
<pururu> Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME
<pururu> i also use external monitor and antialiasing for text
<persia> antialiasing shouldn't take much, and the external monitor shouldn't make too much difference.
<pururu> good to hear
<persia> I think your GPU should be supported, but I don't have one, so I can't promise anything.
<persia> I'd recommend trying setting visual effects to "None" and seeing if that makes it stop being slow.  If that doesn't help, just turn the effects back on.
<persia> Not sure what else might be the issue, or why moving the mouse would take so much CPU.
<pururu> its supported and DRI enabled, i even can play Quake with good performance. this CPU is probably as fast as Geforce 1st series, from glxgears scores
<pururu> s/CPU/GPU
<persia> Hrm.  Dunno then.
<pururu> ok i'll try playing with effects. do you know when netbook remix will be released? i hope they will include tweaks by default, like disable logging to SSD and such
<pururu> i also not sure if this midbrowser uses SSD as cache like firefox do
<pururu> no such option here
<persia> I don't know about the release schedule for any remixes : you'd do best to ask the maintainers of the remix.
<ian_brasil> pururu: i am on an aspire one a.t.m
<persia> ian_brasil, Do you see the same slowdown?
<ian_brasil> no
<ian_brasil> well sometimes midbrowser freezes but not to the same extent as pururu reports
<persia> Hrm.
<ian_brasil> maybe it is the theme
<ian_brasil> i was testing it on friday and it is pretty resource intensive
<ian_brasil> pururu: try changing the theme to a metacity one to test this
<ian_brasil> use gconf-editor for this and choose one of the themes in /usr/share/themes
<ian_brasil> it uses NewHumanMobile as a default b.t.w
<ian_brasil> desktop-gnome-interface-gtk_theme in gconf-editor and right click on the theme to edit it
<pururu> oh... well...
<pururu> i useing DarkRoom theme
<pururu> (mm i should say "i'm were useing?" sorry for my English)
<ian_brasil> what engine does this theme use?
<pururu> its one of supplied with ubuntu-mobile themes
 * ian_brasil looks for info about DarkRoom theme
<pururu> i see both metacity and compiz are running
<pururu> i tried to switch to other themes, dont see any difference
<ian_brasil> this uses the murrine theme engine which is very nice and all but is pretty heavy
<pururu> (but not how you described, and just with appearence applet)
<pururu> murrine?
<ian_brasil> this is the engine which ' makes' the theme more or less
<pururu> and human theme uses which engine?
<ian_brasil> if you were to choose a theme based on Raleigh for example this would  use much less resources
<ian_brasil> the same murrine
<pururu> interesting
<ian_brasil> but also not look as nice obviously
<pururu> maybe xfce or kde will be better? i also heard they included new type of acceleration for intel video in new Xorg, but it is disabled by default
<persia> I've heard that the changes to KDE to work nicely on smaller screens won't land until 4.2, so you might want to delay that (although you may find a theme you like).
<persia> I don't know the state of Xfce for high-DPI devices though.
<pururu> mm this acceleration... probably DRI2 or something
<ian_brasil> playing around with MID themes
<ian_brasil> check out ubuntu golden
<ian_brasil> http://ianlawrence.info/downloads/ubuntu-mid/ubuntu-mobile-theme.png
<persia> That's fairly pleasing.  That's kourou?
<ian_brasil> what is kourou?
<persia> The launcher for intrepid MID.
<persia> Replaces mobile-basic-flash.
<ian_brasil> erm, this is on hardy
<ian_brasil> on the geode
<persia> Oh.  Pretty, but not directly importable :)
<ian_brasil> like lots of things..pretty but useless! 
<persia> heh.
<playya> do you have a central repo for the source? i want to have some parts on my n800
<persia> playya, archive.ubuntu.com
<playya> i'm thinking of a git,bzr,svn,cvs, hg 
<persia> Then no.  It's a collection of many pieces of software.  The upstream software is stored in all of those and more.  Debian packages most of the software, and Ubuntu the remainder, and patches are added where needed.  The integrated collection becomes Ubuntu Mobile or Ubuntu MID.
<playya> ok
<playya> anyone tried to add openembedded recipes for some parts?
<persia> I don't know of any explicit integration of that, but I could be mistaken.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-19
<thekorn> hi,
<thekorn> is it still possible to add an application to the blacklist of apps which should not be maximised?
<thekorn> for UNR karmic that is
<thekorn> if, so, it would be cool if someone could add gtk-recordMyDesktop
<lool> thekorn: Could you file a bug?
<lool> thekorn: It's easy to add it to the blacklist, yes
<lool> thekorn: I need the output of "xprop |grep -i class" (click on the target window)
<thekorn> lool: ok, I'm going to file a bug now, which target? maximus?
<thekorn> lool: I just opened bug 455395 for this, thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455395 in maximus "Please add 'gtk-recordMyDesktop' to the list of blacklisted applications in UNR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455395
<lool> thekorn: Uploaded; in queue
<thekorn> lool: great, thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-20
<sbeattie> is the ubuntu-mid meta package worth keeping around? It's currently uninstallable (bug 455641)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455641 in mobile-meta "Karmic: ubuntu-mid depends on missing package cheese-hildon" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455641
<StevenK> sbeattie: Hm. It's only a meta package, and can be resurrected from the seed lists easily enough
<lool> sbeattie: thanks, picked it up
<ian_brasil> lool ..regarding #456510 liquid remix will not use this way of starting..we will either use
<ian_brasil> nodm or gdm
<ian_brasil> i will comment this on the bug report
<lool> ian_brasil: Ok
<lool> ian_brasil: This is lucid stuff anyway
<plars> lool, GrueMaster: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/+bug/456659 is the bug for susres on imx51 in case you are interested
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/456659)
<plars> GrueMaster: also, I just noticed there's a 20091020 image now, so we can start taking a look at partman
<GrueMaster> I just saw that.
<lool> plars: thnks
<lool> plars: fsl mentionned some power management tools on the call today for suspend resume
<lool> apparently it's supposed to more or less work
<lool> perhaps not with power btn
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-21
<lool> Does someone know how to send Ctrl-Alt-Fx under virtualbox?
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: Poke, I have a hang before the timezone selection screen in ubiquity under moblin remix if I chose anything else than English
<lool> Can you guys confirm?
<lool> (this is under virtualbox)
<GrueMaster> Which snapshot?  Today's?
<lool> Yes
<GrueMaster> Downloading now.  Will check when it finishes.
<plars> lool: no, I got past there with today's snapshot just fine
<plars> lool: also under virtual box
<sbeattie> lool: Ctrl-Alt-Fx> <host-key>Fx, where <host-key> here defaults to <right-ctrl>
<plars> lool: is the battery in your b2.5 good?
<lool> plars: I installed on 2.0 for now; need to test 2.5 now
<plars> lool: if your battery is good, can you see if it still preserves the clock?
<lool> sbeattie: thanks!
<lool> plars: yes
<plars> lool: mine is not, but could be just that my battery has recently died
<lool> An ARM person told me ethernet wasn't working with babbage 2.0  :-(
<plars> and I don't have my voltmeter handy at the moment
<lool> plars: moblin > had you tried with non-english?
<lool> plars: Just rebooting into the installed system, I have date/time issues on 2.0
<plars> lool: no, only english sorry
<plars> lool: let me try non-english real quick
<lool> Ouch I see moblin-remix pulls langpacks during install even when one selects english
<lool> Fuck, system date expired my password and I cant login
<lool> I did a ctrl-alt-del shutdown of Babbage 2.0 and it doesn't come up anymore...
<plars> lool: I tried it in French also, and I also get past the tz select screen
<lool> plars: Ok cool thanks
<lool> plars: in vbox still?
<plars> lool: yep
<plars> NCommander: awake?
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: Do you guys see output on the serial console when booting babbage boards?
<GrueMaster> Briefly.  
<GrueMaster> Default doesn't put much out.
<plars> lool: when I redirect to the console, yes
<lool> plars: I mean bootloader
<GrueMaster> bootloader, yes.
<GrueMaster> why?
<lool> I dont see anything
<lool> Only booting SDHC0
<lool> And not even always
<lool> Hmm you guys have 2.0
<lool> JamieBennett: what about you
<lool> err 2.5
<plars> lool: I only have 2.5
<lool> Jamie has 2.0
<lool> GRAH
<lool> serial cable had simply moved out
<plars> lool: you don't even get output from redboot?
<plars> ah
<plars> wow, I was going to say you probably cooked your board or something :)
<JamieBennett> Sorry, just back I do have a 2.0
<lool> I hate you real world
 * JamieBennett reads backchat
<lool> JamieBennett: dont bother
<GrueMaster> I wasn't going to suggest that you plug it in.  "P
<GrueMaster> :P
<plars> funny that you got as far as the first message, then nothing after that
<lool> Now Xorg wont come up anymore for me on Babbage 2.0
<lool> Hmm probably a date issue
<JamieBennett> lool: :) just read the back chat, if in doubt always blame the hardware first 
<lool> Eh if you use init=/bin/sh you have to ctrl-alt-f7 to talk to the shell
<lool> JamieBennett: How do you reset the time after install of a babbage 2.0?
<JamieBennett> After the time resets you have to drop to the console and use date (if you can boot to X that is)
<lool> JamieBennett: I cant boot to X and I dont have sudo either
<lool> It fails due to the time skew
<JamieBennett> lool: I haven't experienced that. Even though the time resets I've always been able to boot to X
<JamieBennett> I can give todays image a try though
<lool> please do
<JamieBennett> lool: OK
<JamieBennett> downloading now
<lool> are you at home?
<JamieBennett> lool: yes, why?
<lool> JamieBennett: Ok just wondering
<JamieBennett> :)
<lool> JamieBennett: I mean you're expected to be doing RC testing anyway  :)
<JamieBennett> Not at 6:30pm :P
<JamieBennett> Farming the kids off to bed in 30 minutes so I'll devote some more time tonight to testing
<lool> Eh right
<plars> lool: normally the time skew doesn't cause *that* bad of problems for me... just that it makes me change my password every time I login, or use sudo
<JamieBennett> plars: exactly what I was getting (last tested a couple of days ago)
<lool> Perhaps sudo -i would work
<JamieBennett> plars: password reset every login until you set the date then its fine until you take the power away
<plars> JamieBennett: right, that bug is supposed to be fixed though :(
<JamieBennett> plars: I'm going to test in T minus 10 minutes :)
<JamieBennett> (download time)
<lool> Oh it kept the date once
<lool> Ah no
<lool> it ntped
<plars> lool: I reopened it
<plars> lool: also I looked at the kernel from yesterday, and it still seems to contain the fixes that were in that changeset
<plars> GrueMaster: are you able to make it through the dove install?
<plars> I'm dying with InstallStepError in configure_bootloader()
<plars> could be related to NCommander stuff he did on partman? maybe?
<GrueMaster> Haven't gotten to that platform yet.  Just finishing up unr & imx51 install testing.
<lool> If I use startx, the server comes up fine
<lool> and if I start gdm it doesn't
<lool> Ok got it
<lool> my 2.5 doesn't boot if I pull too much power with too many devices up
<JamieBennett> lool: ? Does that mean you solved your problem ? (installing todays image now)
<lool> JamieBennett: No  :-(
<lool> I gave up on babbage 2.0 to see how a 2.5 behaves for me
<lool> I saw /var/log/gdm/(null).log files and thought it was looking bad
<JamieBennett> lool: OK leave it with me. I'll see what my board does
<JamieBennett> lool: live cd has pulled up the right time, I presume from the last install and the battery backup
<JamieBennett> installing a full system now
<JamieBennett> (and its been unplugged for at least 2 days)
<lool> JamieBennett: If you have network plugged in, it ntp-ed it
<JamieBennett> lool: confirmed. Removed eth cable, unplugged, rebooted live cd, back to Jan 1st 1970.
<JamieBennett> Also why is it so hard to click on London in Ubiquity?
<lool> :-(
<lool> JamieBennett: Do you get gdm to startup on an installed system?
<lool> JamieBennett: Also could you check ls /var/log/gdm for funny names like mine
<JamieBennett> lool: still installing but I'll check
<lool> plars: I had a successful time keep on 2.5
<lool> plars: I only unplugged for 10 seconds
<lool> But I unplugged everything
<lool> and booted without network and time/date was kept
<JamieBennett> lool: booted the installed image, saw GDM briefly then blank screen :(
<lool> Oh you did see it
<lool> JamieBennett: I personally suspect the depth changes
<lool> JamieBennett: I think I'll try with mxcfb on the cmdline
<lool> JamieBennett: Did you manage to login etc.?
<JamieBennett> lool: saw the image but no text i.e. the box, backdrop but nothing else then flickered out
<JamieBennett> no, saw it for 1/2 second or so
<lool> JamieBennett: Sorry, I mean can you fix the time/date frm console?
<lool> Cause I found it quite hard to workaround the date/time issues
<JamieBennett> can't even login in at the moment (from another console). Its not accepting the password I set it to
<plars> lool: so are you thinking that all of our batteries are just failing?
<JamieBennett> lool, date from the console worked fine
<JamieBennett> (with a sudo and a password change again)
<lool> plars: So you lost hte date?
<plars> lool: yes, that's what I was saying this morning
<lool> plars: I kept my 2.5 off for 10 minutes or so and it kept time/date
<lool> plars: Who else has the issue?
<lool> plars: We see the issue JamieBennett and I on 2.0, but I kind of expected that it would be poorly supported
<lool> plars: Might be good to test your voltage
<plars> lool: ah, this morning it sounded like you were also having the clock issue
<JamieBennett> So we have failing batteries again? Was is ever fixed?
<lool> plars: One thing you might want to try is booting the board without network and DVI and plugging them after some 5 seconds
<lool> plars: I had it ... on 2.0
<lool> plars: But 2.0 is so broken, you can't imagine
<lool> plars: And I think I found my problem with 2.5
<lool> plars: What I thought were corruptions aren't
<lool> What was happening was a heisenbug which resolved itself after I rewrote my SD card
<plars> ok, really hoping this is just my battery
<lool> But actually it didn't change anything
 * JamieBennett waits for a 2.5 next week
<lool> I just had luck booting the second time
<lool> Now I can consistenly boot my 2.5 fine IF I unplug network and DVI
<lool> If I keep them both, it often fails
<plars> lool: what about if you just keep one of them?
<plars> lool: did you ever solder those connections for the ground issue? could be the same thing we saw before on the network
<lool> plars: I need to try; I had the impression network was a worse offender and it's brought up by redboot
<plars> oh, so you're getting power on, just failing later
<lool> I'm pretty sure redboot doens't touch dvi so I would blame the network powe consumption, unless power is misconfigured on shutdown and the config is preserved across power off
<lool> I never soldered the grounding stuff
<lool> True
<lool> I wonder whether I should be soldering by 2.0 now
<lool> I'm a software guy!  I'll try mxcfb= first   :-P
<lool> God it's 10pm and I didn't manage to test UNR and Dove yet
<plars> lool: I just managed to finish installing dove, hit a ubiquity issue
<plars> I was wondering if it was due to the new stuff michael worked on, but the second time through it worked for me
<plars> we'll see if it boots now
<lool> plars: I could boot 2.5 with just network unplugged; not a 100% test but it looks like it's the main issue
<lool> JamieBennett: are you using a USB hub?
<JamieBennett> for keyboard and mouse only
<JamieBennett> thumb drive is plugged directly in
<lool> I wonder whether it's causing the excessive power pull
<lool> I reproduced the IO errors on SATA port with the new cables
<lool> Cursor spins, then if I try to switch to console it hangs and I can't SSH
 * lool hugs his 2.5
<playya> hmm. io errors with sata cabels? i'm fighting with this error, too
<playya> already ran a fsck for days without a result
<playya> lool, do you think i should exchange my cables?
<lool> playya: You have a Babbage 2.x?
<lool> playya: We have a very specific issue with Babbage boards; it doesn't relate to the cables but we need special cables to use its SATA port
<lool> The port works fine most of the time, except when opening a GNOME session
<playya> lool, ah ok. i have a problem with a MyBook disk on my PC :(
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-22
<ara> hello all :-)
<StevenK> ara: :-)
<ara> hey StevenK
<ara> Can anyone test (or Is anyone testing) the remaining ARM netboot testcases?
<ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3199
<ara> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/3200
<ara> lool? ^
<StevenK> I'm not sure -- I can't, since I don't have the hardware.
<ara> plars? ^
<ara> same thing here, StevenK
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-23
<davmor2> hey lool did that wubi fix for unr go through yet?
<lool> davmor2: No, UNR needs a respin
<davmor2> lool: probably monday now then?
<lool> davmor2: I hope it will be rerolled today
<davmor2> lool: okay cool if it happens give me a ping if I'm still about.
<lool> davmor2: Thanks!
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-24
<priegog> hi.
<priegog> is there any reason fro the karmic ppa not to work?
<lool> StevenK: I've rerolled UNR
