#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-22
<UnnamedUser> hello
<UnnamedUser> ?
<UnnamedUser> anyone earth to anyone
<UnnamedUser> mars to anyone
<benkaiser> hello
<UnnamedUser> wow
<UnnamedUser> no one talking
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-23
<RobinJ> is this the channel i need to be in for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=synlnIErJKU ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-24
<itsmontoya> Hey all
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-25
<ryaxnb> let's talk about the app launcher in unity
<ryaxnb> IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED
<ryaxnb> GNOME 3 has a good app launcher that is almost exactly like unity, except it doesn't suck
<ryaxnb> KDE 4 has a decent app launcher
<ryaxnb> unity needs a decent app launcher
<bogo__> hi uys...quick question...were can i get the ubuntu mobile os from? can i simply download it and install it on the phone? i know it's still beta version...
<popey> bogo__: not currently available
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-01-27
<nuxninja> hey guys
<nuxninja_> hi
<k1l> hi
<nuxninja> so wats this channel all bout
<k1l> nuxninja: see /topic
<k1l> so like the discussion about ubuntu becoming a RollingRelease Distribution or not
<nuxninja> not working k1l
<nuxninja> ok
<k1l> you are not used to read topics?
<nuxninja> i cant run the command /topic
<k1l> strange irc client
<nuxninja> error:     --- #ubuntu-discuss :You're not a channel operator
<nuxninja> xchat for gnome
<k1l> ah, the usual -gnome problem. no problem for the real xchat here
<nuxninja> kool but 12.10 is xtremely buggered up ....unity is champ but other problems.........
<k1l> im fine with 12.10. unity could be more speedy, but i think that relates to the vgs driver
<nuxninja> ill be installing 12.04 back again....just cant work with 12.10
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-25
<dotpixis> why is there now an update to read other os's available on my machene?
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<nicomachus> lol, linus torvalds hang out on the volunteer ubuntu support IRC channel, right?
<BluesKaj> nicomachus, no, I think that's some other guy who registered his nick as his own :-)
<BluesKaj> linus runs fedora afaik
 * nicomachus finds it extremely odd that Linus is on G+...
<nicomachus> and is ACTIVE on it.
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: lol real or fake?
<nicomachus> very much real: https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts
<lotuspsychje> lets c if he's playing on kernel 4.5 right now...
<lotuspsychje> every1 on social media these days bah
<OerHeks> how do i tell if i have usa or usb ?
<nicomachus> lol
<nicomachus> usa is more 'murica, usb is more "actually works"
<Bashing-om> LOL
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-26
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<OerHeks> hmmm modifying the color from #DD4814 to #E95420
<OerHeks> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-secretly-changed-ubuntu-orange-color-to-another-orange-499428.shtml
<Ben64> page doesn't even show the difference
<OerHeks> Yeah, they should do like this >> http://imgur.com/3XC6RvW
<OerHeks> Glad i didn't order my businesscards yet :-D
<Ben64> http://ben64.com/random_junk/oranges.png
<Ben64> took way too long, i'm so bad at the gimp
<OerHeks> nice :-)
<OerHeks> It is like it has been washed with super-duper-clean-agent
<Ben64> yeah, i like the previous orange better
<Ben64> but i never really liked the orange anyway
<OerHeks> too bright?
<Ben64> too orange?
<Ben64> i made everything blue on my system
<BluesKaj> hey OerHeks Ben64 , I never cared for ubuntru colours ...that orange/brownish default alwys bugged me
<OerHeks> Orange is the colour of our royaldude, so we are used to it
<OerHeks> yeah BluesKaj, the brown one was really ...how do i say this politely
<BluesKaj> OerHeks, no need to be polite , just be real
<Ben64> earthen
<BluesKaj> mucky
<Ben64> i like my system to look clean and sharp, maybe futuristic
<OerHeks> though that artwork of 9.04 was awesome
<BluesKaj> well said tho OerHeks "-)
<Ben64> anyway, time to rinse with saltwater and head to bed
<OerHeks> :-)
<Ben64> if you ever have a choice to get a wisdom tooth removed... don't do it
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-27
<bluefive> Hey folks.
<bluefive> I'm live on a fresh install of 15.10 using the KDE's cutting-edge Plasma DE.
<EriC^^> cool
<bluefive> You got that right. Rock solid so far. Buttery smooth handling.
<EriC^^> :D
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<Temmis> Can someone here help me install Ricochet?
<Bashing-om> Temmis: System support in the #ubuntu channel . Here is off-topic converstations .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-28
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<OerHeks> Hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi OerHeks
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-29
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<OerHeks> got a nice tip for emailclient, https://invite.nylas.com/download/ = N1. pretty good mailapp sofar.
<pauljw> OerHeks, does it have a calendar function?
<OerHeks> it can integrate the calender in google i see
<pauljw> ok
<OerHeks> searching now,
<OerHeks> settings > plugins > quick schedule
<pauljw> seems to be cloud based and i'm not too keen on the cloud.
<OerHeks> i guess it is not bad, a container. not the google.js anyway.
<OerHeks> hmm that schedule has no connection to google calendar
<pauljw> we currently are using thunderbird, but i guess it's going away?  seems a shame.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-30
<csubee> hi all
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<bhalash> /close
<OerHeks>  /open
<Bashing-om> Good day all; Which way is the #ubuntu wind blowing this fine Saturday ?
<OerHeks> hi Bashing-om, east, i am in that 7 area http://www.buienradar.nl/weerkaarten/wind
<Bashing-om> UHHH .. "Wi nd Nederland" Blowing from the West to the East ... Well, even in #ubuntu it is a ill wind that blows nobody any good . See what good I can do this day .
<OerHeks> Q did they use snappy core? http://www.cxmagazine.com/motor-mechanical-doping-femke-van-den-driessche-suspected-2016-cyclocross-world-championships-update
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-01-31
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> hi everyone
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-23
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic trusty
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 3.13.0.107.115 (trusty), package size 2 kB, installed size 30 kB
<EriC^^> morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lordievader> Good afternoon
<EriC^^> good afternoon
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^, how are you?
<EriC^^> good thanks ,you?
<lordievader> Doing good here too :)
<ducasse> \o
<lordievader> Hey ducasse, how are you?
<ducasse> good, thanks, and you?
<EriC^^> hey ducasse
<EriC^^> it's your bday today right?
<ducasse> how on earth did you remember that? :)
<EriC^^> cause it's the same month as mine and you told me back then :D
<EriC^^> happy birthday! :D
<ducasse> thanks :)
<ducasse> bdays aren't really a big deal when you've had more than a few of them, though :)
<lordievader> Happy birthday ducasse
<ducasse> thanks :)
<ducasse> anyone tried the new 'snap find --section ...' feature? just discovered it has autocomplete.
<BluesKaj> ahh ducasse's birthday...Happy Birthday ducasse !
<ducasse> thanks BluesKaj :)
 * BluesKaj slides a snifter of brandy and an El-Cuba cigar to ducasse
<ducasse> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi everyone
<EriC^^> hi ducasse
<ducasse> g'morning, EriC^^ - what's up?
<EriC^^> good morning, not much, drinking coffee, you?
<ducasse> tea here, still waking up :)
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj, how are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader , good here , and you?
<lordievader> Doing good too, having lunch
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o .
<lotuspsychje> howdy Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> foggy weather here and cold
<lotuspsychje> brrrr i hate winter times
<Bashing-om> been real nice here . a couple days of fog and rain . other wise nice for January.
<Bashing-om> Location: Heber Springs, AR ~ Temp: 43Â°F (6Â°C) ~ Cond: Mostly Cloudy ~ Humid: 93% ~ Wind: 0 mph (0 km/h) ~ Time: 22:15
<lotuspsychje> looks good
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Forum and support channels are slow . must be the nice weather and no one is breaking 'buntu ??
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the headsup
<Bashing-om> subject to change :)
<Bashing-om> Too slow to hold my attention ---- laters guys .
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 50.1.0+build2-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 46487 kB, installed size 112995 kB
<lotuspsychje> laterz guys breakfast
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<Bashing-om> Away for a spell . Back when I can .
<Bashing-om> Back, not missed much :(
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-26
<tengelic> ;_;
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> the ice has vanished this morning, yay!
<lotuspsychje> !syslog
<lotuspsychje> !logs
<ubot5> Official channel logs can be found at https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too. Meetingology logs at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/
<lotuspsychje> dax: can we have a trigger for !logs so users are pointed to /var/log/syslog or dmesg foor deeper investigation of their trouble?
<lotuspsychje> or do we have something like this?
<lotuspsychje> !dmesg
<ubot5> dmesg is a console command which outputs the kernel ring buffer - an important log for diagnosing problems in  Linux. Often when something errors with hardware it will result in additional lines reported which can be seen by running dmesg in a console.
<lotuspsychje> nvm
<ducasse> good morning
<Bashing-om> \o ducasse top 'o the morn to ya too .
<ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how has your day been?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Been good ,, a bit slow . Maybe picking up now ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: it usually does around this time.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: generally headed off to bed before this time . Just sticking around to see what happens :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: sounds like a plan :) i'm grabbing a fresh cup of tea and read through my backlog :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Good way to start the day .. then decide in what next :)
<ducasse> Bashing-om: just opened the window to let the cat out, she walked onto the porch, looked around for a few seconds then decided it was too cold and ran back inside :)
<Bashing-om> who says cats are not smart ! - we picked up a feral kitten, and now that cat has decided it wants the domesticated life .
<ducasse> i read somewhere that cats are the only domesticated animal that pretty much "chose" to be domesticated. dogs were domesticated through breeding, but cats were attracted to humans because of shelter and food, and we let them stick around because they drove away pests.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: A fact . And I find that cats will not stay where not wanted, or they are not satisfied . Have ya petted your cat this morning - 1st thing I got to do when I am doing the coffee thing .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: yup. the cat i had before this one just moved in on his own accord, he must have liked it here. i know his previous owners did not treat him well, so...
<ducasse> Bashing-om: this one starts climbing on me when she feels she's not getting enough attention :)
<Bashing-om> Tinker awaites patiently by my chair when the keyboard is out . When it is petting, lots of patience to get her turn :)
<ducasse> now that i have my new desk there is enough space for her to sleep beside the keyboard so she can keep an eye on things :)
<Bashing-om> Now Ebony ( the feral one ) .. she is soooo insistent .. no waitimg there !
<ducasse> i was thinking of getting another one, but the center i got luna from said she had not been treated well in her previous home and got anxious by other animals. don't want to do that to her.
<Bashing-om> I can understand that .. took a while for Tinker to adjust to having another cat in the her domain // the dogs she tollerates :).
<dax> same with my cats. it worked out better for ours, but for one that gets anxious with other animals i'd indeed pass on adding another
<Bashing-om> Yall keep up the good fight .. me for R&R be back soon . G nite.
<ducasse> mine arches her back if she just sees a cat/dog walk by outside, so it's probably a bad idea.
<ducasse> sleep well Bashing-om !
<Bashing-om> thanks . will .
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<Bashing-om> See, does work out - back now from my R&R state :)
<BluesKaj> Hey Bashing-om , what works out ?
<BluesKaj> I'm curious
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Well, leaving IRC last morning and returning this day ! Also took delivery of the Buick this AM . World is all rosy .
<BluesKaj> nice! :-)
<Bashing-om> Be a period of adjustment driving such a nice ride .
<BluesKaj> yay, finally some sunshine here, been dreary for almost 2 weeks
<nicomachus> snow here. :/
<nicomachus> and not even good snow.
<nicomachus> just super light flurries and COOOOOOLD
<Bashing-om> cooler here, but 2nd day of sun . No Winter in the immediate forecast L)
<OerHeks> please global warming, come back!
<BluesKaj> we're not sun worshippers , but some sun sure picks the mood up after all these grey skies
<OerHeks> Drabber runs to the open spot where sun shines :-D
<BluesKaj> heh, Northern Ontario feels like the banana belt , been above freezing for 10 days  :-0
<Bashing-om> Uh Huh .. I hear that the polar bears are not too happy .
<BluesKaj> it's usually -10C average temps in Jan
<OerHeks> "you can't always get a great philosopher you want"
<OerHeks> :-D
<Bashing-om> But if ya ask micely, you may get what you need :)
<Bashing-om> nicely*
<OerHeks> symlinking, i did not see libpng as requirement.
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-27
<jezzica00> hi
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning.
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-28
<Bashing-om> Calling it ! G nite .
<baizon> very very nice
<baizon> http://mega.nz/sourcecode
<BluesKaj> Good Day all
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj - how's your weekend so far?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, fine atm, relaxing with morning coffee, and you?
<ducasse> on the sofa with laptop and tea, plan on not doing much today.
<BluesKaj>  We might be having a saturday jam this afternoon at my friend's garage/studio. Not sure yet .
<ducasse> BluesKaj: what kind of music?
<BluesKaj> mostly classic rock and some country
<ducasse> cool. you been playing for long?
<BluesKaj> bunch of older guys except for our semi-regular bass player who's in his mid 30's
<BluesKaj> off and on with different guys for about 25 yrs
<ducasse> old guys can rock too :)
<BluesKaj> yup
<ducasse> most of the artists i listen to have been playing for 20-40+ years, so...
<BluesKaj> I played drums a bit before I got married, but life became too busy with kids etc til 1990 or so then wife and I were "empty nesters", so some one heard I used to play and invited me to jam at his little studio and the rest is history ;-)
<BluesKaj> we've played a few gigs around  town for the past few yrs, just enough appreciation to keep us going
<ducasse> i'm absolutely without musical talent, so i stick to listening to it :)
<BluesKaj> listening is good
<BluesKaj> I listened for a long time when was into audio and still do at times
<ducasse> yup. there's so much good stuff out there, so plenty to dig into.
<ducasse> that whole audio thing can be ruinous.
<BluesKaj> it reaches a point of diminishing returns in terms of price and common sense
<BluesKaj> IMO
<BluesKaj> I've met audiophiles with 20Kilobuck systems who have only 50 albums, and listen to the sound but don't hear the music
<ducasse> sure, you find your level eventually. there's little point to the absurdly priced cables etc.
<BluesKaj> it's all about "gear" with some
<ducasse> exactly. and superstition :)
<BluesKaj> exotic cables claims is nothing but black magic
<ducasse> do you remeber the green marker they claimed would improve cd sound if you marked the outer edge with it? :)
<BluesKaj> yes, ridiculous
<ducasse> people actually bought and used those. they were pretty cheap iirc, but some of this stuff costs vast amounts of money.
<BluesKaj> I'm an old Lab-Techie and measurements mean more to me than unsubstantiated claims about unmeasureable effects
<ducasse> they sell ridiculous things; bags of crystals you are meant to place around connectors etc.
<ducasse> what you say about measurements is why i like companies like nad.
<BluesKaj> I've always maintained the belief that yje recording has more effect on the sound than the equipment once a certain level of hifi is reached, and that level can be very afforable IME.
<BluesKaj> yes , nad is pratical and well designed affordable equipment
<ducasse> they tend to skimp on stuff that is essentially frills and focus on the bits that matter. they might not be the coolest-looking, but work well. and they work for a very long time.
<ducasse> heading out, brb
<Bashing-om> !info nvme-cli xenial
<ubot5> nvme-cli (source: nvme-cli): userspace tooling to control NVMe drives. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5-1ubuntu0.1 (xenial), package size 88 kB, installed size 188 kB
<ducasse> Bashing-om: ok, i'm heading to bed rsn. have fun!
<Bashing-om> Just for that I will be forced to have fun without you ducasse .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i'm sure you can manage :)
<Bashing-om> Wuth the ranks dwindle-ing .. not as much fun .
<Bashing-om> with*
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-01-29
<Bashing-om> Fair all well --- til we meet again :)
<BluesKaj> Hiya folks
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<marcosfermin> Hello guys. I just installed Ubuntu MATE on a MacBook Pro and configured GRUB. Has any of you done it? I would like to share some thoughts about the experience
<EriC^^> morning all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: You going to be on for a bit ?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje_: You going to be on for a bit ?
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<EriC^^> how are you?
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<EriC^^> good thanks
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well?
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<lotuspsychje_> bbl work
<ducasse> all good, thanks
<EriC^^> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi EriC^^, how are you today?
<EriC^^> good thanks, you?
<ducasse> all good here, just having a relaxing morning.
<oerheks> Hi girls :-D
<jink> O__o
<oerheks> hello sir :-)
<jink> That's so sexist, assuming gender. :P
<oerheks> true .. but i like the confusing some have about mine
<jink> Maar goed, goedemorgen! :D
<oerheks> oh, jij weer
<jink> "heks" kinda gives it away, no? :o
<oerheks> wikipedia heeft het goed.
<oerheks> "meestal"
<jink> Ah, ok.
<jink> I can't be bothered either way, tbh. :P
<oerheks> i am waiting for a core 2 duo laptop ..
<jink> ^__^
<oerheks> i love freebies, well i have to wash windows for it.
<jink> 2?
<jink> Or more?
<oerheks> maybe 5, all ground floor. he does not want money for it, so we do it like this, closed wallets
<jink> Aight. :)
<oerheks> *if* it has just 2 gb ddr2, i have 4 gb sodimm here eating dust
<lordievader>  > i am waiting for a core 2 duo laptop ..
<lordievader> As in the machine physically, or virtually?
<oerheks> physically
<lordievader> Any plans for the machine?
<oerheks> jups, 17.10 KDE
<oerheks> I really like a 2nd machine, neighbour had no desktop spare, justan old core 2 dus..
<jink> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT5apgxUMAAuUPM.jpg:large
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<jink> :)
<marcoscosmos> Hi
<jink> What do you guys use to run Ubuntu on Windows 7?
<oerheks> windows 7 is EOL, no?
<jink> Not my call, company machine, but sure.
<jink> At some point, in some future, we'll get upgraded to 10.  But today is not that day.
<oerheks> i *would* use vmware
<marcoscosmos> In windows 10 there's bash on ubuntu on windows which isn't bad. Dunno about 7
<jink> marcoscosmos: Yes, obviously.  See above. :P
<marcoscosmos> But basically it's a WM or bust if you want to use more than quick access stuff
<jink> For quick access stuff, I use cygwin, but I need Ubuntu for some other things.
<jink> oerheks: But?
<marcoscosmos> Like, it was easier to use bash-on-windows to run tensorflow-tensorboard than whatever bs I'd need to do naively but that's probably like the upper limit
<marcoscosmos> yeah bash-for-windows is probably proximal to cygwin. Bit more reliable, less featured
<marcoscosmos> features*
<jink> More reliable, how?  I have hardly any issues with cygwin.
<marcoscosmos> well, as a student at university in first year the ability to get cygwin running on the university systems was like, 50/50
<marcoscosmos> the probability of*
<marcoscosmos> it was awful
<jink> :D
<marcoscosmos> also I think cygwin does some magic to be slightly more windows esque than a proper wm
<jink> Yes, it does.
<marcoscosmos> But TBH ATM I only use windows if I must
<marcoscosmos> Which reminds me I still need to go return my damn laptop ugh
<jink> It supports //server/share and such by default.  And it somehow translates paths.
<marcoscosmos> yeah, that
<jink> Everything is Windows, here, and it's fine, really.
<jink> Well, mostly, anyway.
<jink> :/
<marcoscosmos> stupid goddamn hexchat
<marcoscosmos> What IRC client do you guys use?
<oerheks> hexchat
<oerheks> welcome to irc, dropping connections is so much more fun
<marcoscosmos> I'm using it atm but it's kind of so-so. Also it crashes whenever my task tray dies (i.e. when I reboot my panel to update the config)
<marcoscosmos> which, atm, is /a lot/
<marcoscosmos> Also I need the mouse to change channels, or just don't know the irc commands well yet
<lordievader> marcoscosmos: Riot
<lordievader> Only downside is that is it is written in node.js ð­
<marcoscosmos> Lol
<marcoscosmos> I'll try it
<jink> irssi \o/
<marcoscosmos> I'm too tired to get weechat working atm
<lordievader> marcoscosmos: Do note that Riot is a Matrix client. (Matrix can be bridged into IRC, hence it is my IRC client)
<marcoscosmos> ultimately I'll probably opt for an ncurses client but
<marcoscosmos> Eh does it require config at this moment, lordievader ?
<lordievader> Well you need an account at some homeserver (matrix.org hosts a public homeserver). Then you can follow https://gist.github.com/fstab/ce805d3001600ac147b79d413668770d
<marcoscosmos> Ehk tomorrow then. I've literally burnt the last three days trying to configure my system, I'm all out of energy
<marcoscosmos> jink can you help me be real lazy and post to me the command for joining freenode in irssi, with all params?
<marcoscosmos> Please? :p
<oerheks> if you are *real* lazy, you won't copy it
<marcoscosmos> well I tried /sconnect irc.freenode.net but, it returns "not connected to server"
<marcoscosmos> if I was really lazy, I wouldn't have tried first
<BluesKaj>  /server chat.freenode.net , I think
<oerheks>  /connect irc.freenode.net without s
<marcoscosmos> oerheks, ty
<marcoscosmos> now, sec
<oerheks> now all hide
<lordievader> marcoscosmos: https://irssi.org/documentation/startup/
<marcoscosmos> lordievader: ty as well
<lordievader> ^ also explains how to do auto connect, etc.
<BluesKaj> heh
<BluesKaj>  /server doers work
<kaj> yup
<marcoscosmos> Which key is meta? alt?
<marcoscosmos> yes, alt, kgood
<kaj> irssi is great for getting out of jams without a desktop
<marcoscosmos> yeah that makes a lot of sense
<kaj> it's helped me numerous times
<marcoscosmos> I'm gradually using more and more console stuff over GUI like. I always preffered bash commands over menus so I like rofi but
<marcoscosmos> I'm still not sold on like, vim
<marcoscosmos> mainly due to scrolling tbh
<kaj> I still prefer the gui since I'm in several chats simultaneously
<marcoscosmos> the modes are fine but, I'm still significantly slower with vim because I usually just scroll
<marcoscosmos> well yeah but then i have to use my muose to switch chats kaj, I'd rather either uses split windows in an ncurses clients or, open multiple terminals myself, since I'm using a TWM
<marcoscosmos> Ah he left -_-
<lordievader> Vim is awesome \o/
<BluesKaj> marcoscosmos, that was me on irssi
<marcoscosmos> Yeah it looks promising but.
<marcoscosmos> takes time to adapt
<marcoscosmos> currently I like atom
<marcoscosmos> use vim a bit
<marcoscosmos> BluesKaj: Ah.
<marcoscosmos> okay how do I make a right-split in irrsi
<marcoscosmos> ?
<BluesKaj> or more tabs?
<marcoscosmos> I have more tabs, I want to split
<lordievader> marcoscosmos: You know you can type multiline sentences on IRC?
<marcoscosmos> I'm just gunna open a new window. Sorry, this is my natural typing pattern. My fingers move faster than my thoughts. I'll re-learn to bunch sentances if I'm reminded enough, lordievader
<lordievader> ð
<marcoscosmos> I'm not splitting up messages over lines, just, hitting enter as I finish a thought?
<BluesKaj> marcoscosmos, I use yakuake , it splits, forget the gtk name for it tho
<BluesKaj> ahh yes, guake
<marcoscosmos> alright, I'll try it
<marcoscosmos> I'll need to remember to uninstall the leftovers in the morning I guess
<marcoscosmos> anyway, brb
<marcoscosmos> wait, I know this
<marcoscosmos> Wait what do mean by it splits?
<BluesKaj> splits left right, or top to bottom
<marcoscosmos> quake, the terminal?
<marcoscosmos> or like, irrsi /in/ quake?
<BluesKaj> a right click on the "shell" in the bottom left gives a dialog/context menu with options
<marcoscosmos> because I can just just make new windows
<marcoscosmos> I use a tiling window manager
<BluesKaj> i3 would work I guess
<marcoscosmos> BSPWM in my case
<marcoscosmos> I should probably give i3 a proper go eventually
<BluesKaj> oh forgot you're on windows
<marcoscosmos> No?
<BluesKaj> ok
<marcoscosmos> That was jink IIRC
<marcoscosmos> I'm actually on arch-linux xD
<BluesKaj> ok, my mistake
 * oerheks waiting for i4
<BluesKaj> bbiab
<marcoscosmos> oerheks: wait is i3 actually a successor to something?
<ducasse> i3 is the successor to wmii
<pauljw> hi everyone
<ducasse> \o pauljw - everything well?
<pauljw> hi ducasse, all good here, thx.  you?
<marcoscosmos> O drr ducasse
<marcoscosmos> ... Oh ok*?
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
<lordievader> Hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj, lordievader :)
<pauljw> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey pauljw :)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<oerheks> lolz, that V7 runs debian, but continues asking in ubuntu :-D
<oerheks> or he fools anybody, and does run a fork like mint
<lordievader> That would be fun. If he runs Mint, claims he runs Debian and asks questions in #ubuntu.
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> oerheks, seems that V7 guy is on his phone atm, according to his "version"
<BluesKaj> lordievader,  his nick isn't listed in #debian
<lordievader> BluesKaj: I was talking hypothetical ð
<BluesKaj> mayne they kicked him from debian, some of the ops are really pedantic and overly strict
<BluesKaj> maybe
<oerheks> he is more active in ##linux, with the debian story
<BluesKaj> yeah i see him there
<oerheks> wait for it...
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> no, it should run @ 800 mhz
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<oerheks> yay ...
<oerheks> Changes for intel-microcode versions:
<oerheks> Installed version: 3.20180108.0~ubuntu17.10.1
<oerheks> Available version: 3.20180108.0+really20170707ubuntu17.10.1
<hggdh> yes, we are downgrading the microcode
<oerheks> but i had no issues, at least i think
<hggdh> neither did I. But Intel found more and more processors were prone to error
<hggdh> in other words: Although Intel had much more time to fix the issues, they failed
<hggdh> (really, as expected, this type of change is not a trivial change)
<oerheks> and 4.15 gets a rc9 stage
<hggdh> yep :-)
<oerheks> oke, i am updated .. now waiting for a laptop with core2duo to be dropped by
<oerheks> not sure it is 32 or 64 bit, we'll see
<Bashing-om> nacc: IRT Docfxit forum post https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2383068&p=13733033#post13733033 refers . OP has no clue what he is doing .. Gentle hands :)
<nacc> Bashing-om: ah
<tomreyn> hi
<tomreyn> do you agree that packages.ubuntu.com is stale? the https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/linux-image-generic package is apparently on version 4.4.0.109.114 since january 10 when https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3522-3/ was released
<nacc> tomreyn: that is the version in -security and -updates
<nacc> tomreyn: what do you think is stale?
<tomreyn> nacc: the version info provided on the website
<tomreyn> on packages.ubuntu.com
<nacc> i'm looking atit
<nacc> it's correct?
<nacc> tomreyn: what *specifically* do you think is wrong?
<tomreyn> for me https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/linux-image-generic says the latest pakage version is 4.4.0.104.109
<nacc> tomreyn: oh! i totally misread the number :)
<nacc> yeah that's weird
<tomreyn> took me a while to realise it, too
<tomreyn> thanks for confirming
<nacc> i *think* you can file bugs on it
<nacc> (p.u.c. itself)
<tomreyn> alejdg is already looking into it in #canonical-sysadmin thankfully
<nacc> ah nice
<nacc> i'd assume it's a buggy cronjob
 * tomreyn suspects another mechanism broken during meltdown patching
<tomreyn> so many things to monitor ;)
<nacc> i know a lot of infra was disabled for a while, so i'd imagine that, yeah
<nacc> and it's possible this  might be an untested path :)
<tomreyn> it gets out of date regularly
<tomreyn> but not more than a day or two usually, i think
<nacc> right
<oerheks> https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=does+tux+have+babies
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Look'n - I can use a smile about now :)
<oerheks> nope :-(
<Bashing-om> oerheks: babies ... Garunteeed to put a smile on the face :)
<daftykins> not for me ;)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Must be running scared ...lol
<JanC> hm, I didn't know this before, but apparently Bednet is based on Ubuntu
<JanC> https://bednet.be/bednet-english
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-23
<nacc> "< subcool> Brb, just found out my dad had a Heart attack.. brb"
<nacc> geez
<nacc> there'snot really any reason to be "right back" for that
<Bashing-om> nacc: What a day !
<nacc> everybody's got a case of the mondays!
<nacc> Bashing-om: :)
<Bashing-om> nacc: :) .. Maybe I got it real bad .
<TJ-> nacc: well unless subcool is a para-medic not much he can do!
<daftykins> i took it more as meaning going off to be told by a family member what happened
<nacc> TJ-: yeah, and i guess i'd assume leave to maybe deal with it
<TJ->  Docfixit is now known as Docbreakit
<nacc> is it possible tatertots = Trump?
<Bashing-om> nacc: rj: I vote that support would be enhanced if one tatertot were absent . I have dropped assistance when he intrudes .
<TJ-> nacc: I've asked ops to have a quiet word
<nacc> Bashing-om: yeah
<nacc> i've definitely told them before to stop trolling/ giving terrible advice
<nacc> TJ-: thanks
<TJ-> I like how he asks for yes/no answers where we sometimes get unclear answers, but it goes over the top
<hggdh> TJ-: what gives with tatertota
<hggdh> ?
<hggdh> ah. Backlog helps.
<TJ-> hggdh: not sure, but he got a little stroppy after nacc asked him to tone down a bit
<hggdh> yeah, just read the backlog
<hggdh> in general, it is better to conduct this type of dialog somewhere else than #u
 * hggdh is wearing an offical hat
<hggdh> but I think I see it.
<hggdh> anyway. Event is still going on.
<hggdh> but, in general, being smarty when dealing with users is not a good idea
<TJ-> I like his boolean questioning style but it goes too far at times
<daftykins> is user an idiot? true/false
<daftykins> :D
<hggdh> indeed. And it ends up, usually, being aggressive
<TJ-> my only peeze with his commands is he doesn't put spaces around the pipe | symbol!
<TJ-> peeze? peeve
<hggdh> ah, thank you, I thougth there was a new slang in English I had somehow missed :-)
<TJ-> no, just my A.I. fingers that decide what to type
<TJ-> it's predictive texting IRC style
<hggdh> I know how it is, my fingers -- not me, just my fingers -- are usually dyslexic
<hggdh> but, anyway, event is still on-going.
<TJ-> yeah.. do you get it where you KNOW what you're going to type, you send the message to your fingers, you WATCH them type, then look at the screen and there's something totally different there?
<hggdh> because they are in cohorts, your brain and your fingers. I accepted it, and now I (usually) do not care
 * hggdh goes back to movie and wisky
<daftykins> i've noticed folk not spacing around a pipe, very unpleasant to read
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Ben64> -edge is still behind on kernel update : /
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> due to meltdown Ben64 ?
<Ben64> idk
<Ben64> the normal hwe keeps progressing and edge is behind now
<Ben64> !info linux-generic-hwe-16.04
<ubot5> Package linux-generic-hwe-16.04 does not exist in artful
<Ben64> oops
<Ben64> !info linux-generic-hwe-16.04 xenial
<ubot5> linux-generic-hwe-16.04 (source: linux-meta-hwe): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.31.51 (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 10 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf; arm64; ppc64el; s390x)
<Ben64> !info linux-generic-hwe-16.04-edge xenial
<ubot5> linux-generic-hwe-16.04-edge (source: linux-meta-hwe-edge): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.25.31 (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 10 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf; arm64; ppc64el; s390x)
<lotuspsychje> 25.31
<Ben64> normal and edge should be the same until 18.04's kernel is final
<lotuspsychje> i see
<Ben64> then edge will be 18.04's, and normal will still be 4.13
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !info google-tasks-indicator
<ubot5> Package google-tasks-indicator does not exist in artful
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<lotuspsychje> all ok there?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lordievader> Got a new phone yesterday since my nexus 5x died sunday
<lordievader> How are you lotuspsychje ?
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-says-ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-will-come-with-boot-speed-boost-519498.shtml
<lotuspsychje> fine here lordievader
<EriC^^> what's the plan today lotuspsychje ?
<jink> WHAZZAAAAAAAAAH
<jink> Good morning, fellow monkeys.
<EriC^^> !banana
<ducasse> morning, all
<lotuspsychje> bbl work
<pauljw> hi everyone
<lordievader> ð
<pauljw> hey lordievader :)
<lordievader> How are you doing, pauljw ?
<pauljw> so far so good, only been awake for about an hour...
<pauljw> you doing okay?
<lordievader> Yeah, allright ð
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - wb :)
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
<pauljw> EriC^^ :)
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, pauljw, EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj pauljw :)
<pauljw> :)
<nacc> seriously, zesty is showing how many people should *not* have run non-LTS
<daftykins> upgrade troubles?
<nacc> people hitting the 404
<daftykins> oh after the mirror being moved?
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> removed :)
<immu> hi all
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> hey EriC^^ my friend how are you doing
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<daftykins> technically they go to old-releases.ubuntu.com so more moved eh ;)
<daftykins> guys \o
<daftykins> brb another kernel for xenial :P *sigh*
<oerheks> does windows keep old-releases too ? i find it a bad idea, actually
<nacc>  it's a terrible idea
<nacc> it makes people think it's ok to not upgrade
<nacc> but so be it
<daftykins> eventually they disable windows update from working with a release, yeah - then it truly is on its' own
<nicomachus> just had to install a snap package for the first time. do I need to run a separate update command now or will apt update && apt full-upgrade cover those packages too?
<daftykins> i think non-LTS releases should be more hidden on the site, to stop people falling into the traps from using them
<nacc> nicomachus: totally separate
<nacc> (for now)
<nacc> i think 'software' may do both
<nicomachus> nacc: that's awful
<nacc> nicomachus: but to be clear
<nicomachus> ugh
<nacc> nicomachus: snaps autoupdate
<nacc> nicomachus: in the background, 4 times a day, iirc
<nicomachus> whoa what
<nacc> (well, up to)
<nicomachus> I don't want that
<nacc> yeah you do :)
<nacc> if you actually want apps
<nicomachus> I really just want this Spotify client to not suck, but it looks like the snap package sucks just as much as the ppa
<nacc> nicomachus: no, it's significantly better
<nacc> sorry, i'm mad at this user and it's leaking here
<nacc> give me 5 minutes and i'll explain it
<nicomachus> lol
<daftykins> they seem a terrible idea to me (:
<nicomachus> np, I'm trying to get work down and getting sidetracked by Spotify's awful client not loading
<nicomachus> s/down/done/
<daftykins> music isn't work!
<nicomachus> music in the background is crucial to me being productive. :D
<immu> nicomachus, use Windows then :)
<daftykins> xD
<nicomachus> not a good enough reason
 * oerheks smashed an apple
<oerheks> apple-pie :-D
<nicomachus> what'd you do, pick it up wrong?
<nicomachus> drop it once onto soft carpet?
<nacc> nicomachus: ok, back
<nacc> nicomachus: a) the autoupdates can be stoopped, i believe it's a systemd unit
<nacc> nicomachus: b) the point of snaps is the vendors controll the versions supported and deployed
<nacc> nicomachus: the only way that works if the vendors control, well, the versions deployed
<nicomachus> yea but I want control
<nacc> then you don't want any applications
<nicomachus> lol
<nacc> you want to build everythig yourself
<nacc> aka gentoo
<nicomachus> I mean, I do
<nacc> you are welcome to run gentoo :)
<nicomachus> the ability just isn't there
<nacc> nicomachus: what ability?
<nicomachus> to build apps myself
<nacc> right, then you don't need snaps :)
<nacc> or maybe i misunderstood
<nacc> if you already build all the apps you carea bout yourself, then you don't need snaps
<immu> nicomachus, use Windows :)
<nicomachus> immu: make me
<oerheks> no, use the door
<immu> lol oerheks :)
<nacc> nicomachus: to be clear, i'm telling you how snaps work and why they work the way they do, not what i think should hapene, etc.
<nicomachus> nacc: I get it. I appreciate the info.
<nicomachus> if it makes this stupid spotify client work better, then I'm all for it in that case.
<nacc> right, for pure end-user applications, i think the model is fairly sound
<nacc> esp. for something so opaque as spotify
<nacc> where you already had to add a ppa or third party repo
<nicomachus> I still wish they would spend more time actually bug-killing and developing the client instead of finding new ways to install it, but whatever
<daftykins> isn't it tied to distributing repeat components that may be on the host install already, just to provide a consistent experience that lets the app work though?
<daftykins> so the host OS could get a security fix that takes longer for the snap dev to resolve and then update separately?
<nacc> nicomachus: the point being now they can!
<nacc> nicomachus: now they can do the spotify stuff alone
<nacc> nicomachus: no deps they don't control
<nacc> daftykins: sorry, reading
<daftykins> np
<nacc> daftykins: for confined snaps, what you descirbe is true; snaps are fully self-contained
<nacc> daftykins: they can request reading $HOME, etc.
<nacc> daftykins: tbh, it's the other way around
<nacc> the spotify client can get a CVE or bug fix totally independent of the host
<daftykins> hrmm but there's still the timing for each depending on who is doing it i suppose
<nacc> daftykins: each which?
<nacc> daftykins: for right now, assume that the snap developers can push to all the stores at the same time (it's sort of the required model); then there is no timing issue
<daftykins> i'm thinking 'each' as: 1) host OS dependencies that have had security bugs discovered vs 2) the same wrapped up in a snap
<nacc> daftykins: the host OS is fully orthogonal (other than snapd itself)\
<nicomachus> orthogonal... that's a word
<nacc> daftykins: the big advantage is that you don't need the SRU cycle
<nacc> if you have a bug, you can fix it upstream, CI it, then build the snap automatically (recipes) and every user gets it within a day
<nacc> that's a huge acceleration for app developers
<daftykins> sorry, i'm talking about if you had a normal app as well as the snap side by side for comparison
<nacc> ah
<nacc> yes
<nacc> normal lapp bugfixes -- they are glacial
<nacc> unless they are security, but even then, that requires getting a CVE, etc.
<nicomachus> ugh, look at this spotify icon compared to the others: https://i.imgur.com/vHuus1E.png
<nicomachus> it rendered fine before I installed the snap version. And that's an icon pack, so it shouldn't matter
<nacc> nicomachus: i have no idea on the icon side
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<daftykins> xD
<nacc> nicomachus: they are new to me, still (that is)
<nacc> i'm not a snappy developer, i mean; i own one snap, but that's it
<oerheks> beng ... https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/22/16921108/integral-memory-512gb-microsd-card-largest-ever-memory-storage
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> 6.4mb bionic update
<lotuspsychje> !info cheese bionic
<ubot5> cheese (source: cheese): tool to take pictures and videos from your webcam. In component main, is optional. Version 3.26.0-4ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 137 kB, installed size 447 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-pulls-intel-s-microcode-update-from-ubuntu-repos-due-to-hardware-issue-519494.shtml
<lotuspsychje> !info intel-microcode
<ubot5> intel-microcode (source: intel-microcode): Processor microcode firmware for Intel CPUs. In component main, is extra. Version 3.20180108.0+really20170707ubuntu17.10.1 (artful), package size 1101 kB, installed size 1399 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; x32)
<lotuspsychje> !info shim
<ubot5> Package shim does not exist in artful
<lotuspsychje> !find shim
<ubot5> Found: grub-splashimages, grub2-splashimages, libjs-es5-shim, libjs-es6-shim, libshimdandy-java, node-buffer-shims, node-es5-shim, node-es6-shim, node-set-immediate-shim, olpc-kbdshim (and 4 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=shim&searchon=names&suite=artful&section=all
<lotuspsychje> !info shim bionic
<ubot5> Package shim does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> weird apt-cache shows
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yup .. wierd .
<Bashing-om> nite nite - do this no more for now ... \o
<EriC^^> morning guys
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine here mate
<lotuspsychje> browsing ubuntu news a bit
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> just woke up here
<EriC^^> its raining
<lotuspsychje> here also
<lotuspsychje> this taterots guy with is yes or no questions..
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> always starts with inxi overkill for any issue
<EriC^^> xD
<lotuspsychje> https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/22/how-to-price-cryptocurrencies/
<lotuspsychje> was on lxer
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning, all
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader, i'm good, thanks - how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here ð
<lordievader> How is the snow?
<ducasse> we had a bit of rain yesterday, so some of it has melted, but there's still tons left
<lordievader> Lovely
<ducasse> i'm pretty fed up with it, tbh - will be nice when it disappears :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl work, have a nice1 guys
<lordievader> ducasse: It will.. some day... i guess ð
<EriC^^> an uprising happening in #ubuntu
<ducasse> huh, i wonder where that came from?
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, good thanks. and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<pauljw> hi everyone
<lordievader> Hey pauljw
<lordievader> How are you?
<pauljw> hi lordievader, doing well thx.  :)  you?
<lordievader> Doing good ð
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<hggdh> interesting. RH/CentOS reverted the microcode updates, and now are directing customers elsewhere to find Spectre-resitant microcode
<hggdh> " [...] must obtains and install updated microcode from their hardware vendor immediately."
<TJ-> hggdh: makes sense; distro getting it in the neck for regressions due to Intel -> pass blame to Intel
<TJ-> On the bright side the microcode updates for Linux may be unnecesasry
<TJ-> Looks like we can have an in-kernel, 0-cost, solution
<hggdh> TJ-: yeah. But passing the bucket to the hardware vendor is incorrect as well
<hggdh> (and an in-kernel solution does not resolve the issue outside Linux)
<TJ-> But that's the only way things can be certified, especially in the Enterprise space
<TJ-> hggdh: right, but in-kernel means Linux doesn't suffer a performance hit but still avoids Spectre issues
<hggdh> oh yes. I actually do not, personally, care for other OSes. A good question, though, is what will happen after the no-performance kernel fix meets updated microcode?
<TJ-> as I understand it, nothing, since if the kernel doesn't use the IBRS/IBPB MSRs then speculation will be unchanged.
<TJ-> Just that Ingo's idea of using the existing ftrace mechanics means minial patching of kernel and get can prevent issuing instructions that cause the vulnerabilities
<TJ-> s/minial/minimal/
<hggdh> the best of both worlds, then. Good.
<TJ-> there are extra issues for SkyLake CPUs due to the branch predictor buffer depth but there is some suggestion of ways to track that too
<ducasse> good evening, oerheks - all well with drabber and you?
<oerheks> heya ducasse
<oerheks> yeah, he mised me today
<oerheks> as the weather was soft, 13'C .. i went for cleaning windows, for myself and some neighbours :-D
<oerheks> 4 hrs long, but now i am tired and satisfied
<oerheks> some weather gave fatty rain, and showed up on our windows, ugly
<ducasse> +6Â°C here, snow is melting
<oerheks> sounds good, unless lower temperatures are comming and freezing it up again
<ducasse> that's what i'm afraid of
<BluesKaj> we had a thaw for almost 2 weeks, most of the snow disappeared , then we had a storm on Mon and got about 15cm/6" ..it's clear and cool today at -7C
<oerheks> this little heatwave can cause serious flu problems
<oerheks> i am coughing too..
<oerheks> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rakm5ypjedmyaob/2018Drabber-wil-fietsen3.JPG?dl=0
<ducasse> cute little fellow :)
<oerheks> He wants to ride the bicycle/cargobike
<oerheks> he thinks: if i stick to the bike, everything will be alright :-D
<oerheks> i can leave it open in front of a shop, he will bark if someone approaches :-D
<oerheks> vicious
<ducasse> hehe, i'm sure he can scare almost anyone away - or at least he thinks so :)
<oerheks> but he will not bite, just show skills ..
<BluesKaj> well, I'm to see my physician ...later
<oerheks> and it is a kind of game, if i bark, what do you do?
<oerheks> later BluesKaj
<ducasse> good luck, BluesKaj
<ducasse> oerheks: he's just pretending to be big and tough?
<oerheks> yes, behind a door you would expect a big bad bulldog or steffer
<oerheks> not a brain-as-big-as-a-bean-dog
<oerheks> ( says a chihuahua-owner)
<ducasse> luna just wants anyone who enters to pet her, not much of an attack cat
<hggdh> it is an attract dog
<nicomachus> leftyfb: I was just trying to see what the partition table state was, but if you think you know what's going on and want to keep interfering, go ahead. I'm going to lunch.
<leftyfb> nicomachus: sorry, but it just seems you were completely ignoring a read-only filesystem. That is problem #1 and should be address before anything else. The symptoms of that are almost infinite.
<nicomachus> and checking the partition table was a simple first step, but forget it. you know what you're doing I guess.
<BluesKaj> 0.
<Ben64> welp thats enough #ubuntu for now
<Ben64> i'm a jerk because i tried to save a dude's files
<TJ-> Ben64: best thing is just to ignore them when they get argumentative; don't take it personally. For every abusive user there's 20 that appreciate your help
<Ben64> i don't get people sometimes
<Ben64> at least at my other job i can kick em out if they pull anything like that
<Ben64> machine shop, if they don't take my advice they get to leave
<Ben64> because i don't want to deal with severed limbs or whatever
<Ben64> anyway, lunch time!
<TJ-> mmmm, save some for me... almost my supper time :)
<hggdh> Ben64: he *got* pulled out, and had a chat with ops elsewhere.
<hggdh> this is why he was allowed to return
<hggdh> actually, he was just quieted, IIRC
<nacc> yes, just +/- q
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-25
<Bashing-om> parting is such sweet sorrow ---- who knows what I will miss while I snooze \o
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> 12mb bionic updates
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 58.0+build6-0ubuntu0.17.10.1 (artful), package size 45697 kB, installed size 174832 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox bionic
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 57.0.1+build2-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 45037 kB, installed size 171466 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/purism-plans-to-bring-convergence-to-its-pureos-linux-phone-and-laptops-519543.shtml
 * lotuspsychje_ doesnt like pings
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic trusty
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 3.13.0.141.151 (trusty), package size 2 kB, installed size 31 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.112.118 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> morning, all
<jink> Goedemorgen, prutsers.
<jink> <3
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> hi lordievader - all well here, thanks, how about you?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Ressurected my old phone by disabeling two of the bigger cores... Thinking of  making that an Android development phone.
<ducasse> i've resurrected my old phone by using it as a remote for kodi on the rpi, the official remote app is actually quite nice
<lotuspsychje> bbl work, have a nice day guys
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> hey! \o
<BluesKaj> hi daftykins
<daftykins> how goes?
<BluesKaj> fine, and you?
<daftykins> yeah pretty good thanks :D
<nicomachus> nacc: good luck with qb on his power issues. I tried.
<nacc> nicomachus: not helpingthem, i have no idea how to :)
<nicomachus> pretty sure their battery is just bad.
<nacc> yeah it sounds like hardware issues
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<nicomachus> o/
<nicomachus> morning
<lotuspsychje> hey nicomachus morning mate
<lotuspsychje> hey nacc
<nacc> morning
<hggdh> moi to all
<lotuspsychje> hey hggdh
<lotuspsychje> !info inkscape
<ubot5> inkscape (source: inkscape): vector-based drawing program. In component main, is optional. Version 0.92.2-1build1 (artful), package size 10686 kB, installed size 89520 kB
<lotuspsychje> https://opensource.com/article/18/1/9-awesome-new-inkscape-features-and-how-use-them
<lotuspsychje> seems like nicely maintained
<lotuspsychje> !info roundcube
<ubot5> roundcube (source: roundcube): skinnable AJAX based webmail solution for IMAP servers - metapackage. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.3.0+dfsg.1-1 (artful), package size 1 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> taterots on fire again Yes or no?
<BluesKaj> dunno just got here
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: he asks every user to inxi, for any issue
<BluesKaj> heh
<BluesKaj> the great fixer
<BluesKaj> tool
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
<ducasse> i just leave whenever he starts his routine
<lotuspsychje> one day he's gonna make a mistake
<BluesKaj> still trying to get debian running with my old nvidia gpu ...runs ok on nouveau, may have to stick with it
<daftykins> hey all. i'm playing with ZFS today :)
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: does debian have a debian-drivers list?
<ducasse> hi daftykins - having fun? zfs <3
<BluesKaj> frankly i don't pay much attn to a lot that goes on in #ubuntu since it's become walandized and gnomed
<BluesKaj> waylandized
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  not a drivers list as such there is a website with suggexted packages and a deb source for contrib and nonfree sources, the kernel nvidia dkms modules in stretch build a legacy driver for my gpu , but it breaks the system
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: what driver version is that
<BluesKaj> it's the 340
<BluesKaj> it's supposed towork
<lotuspsychje> yeah that sounds older card
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-346
<ubot5> nvidia-346 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-352): Transitional package for nvidia-346. In component restricted, is optional. Version 352.63-0ubuntu3 (artful), package size 4 kB, installed size 18 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf)
<lotuspsychje> try that one BluesKaj ?
<BluesKaj> geforce 210
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje:  don't think that one fits
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: indeed
<BluesKaj> googling
<daftykins> would've dropped support quite long ago i imagine
<BluesKaj> latest driver is 340.1060
<BluesKaj> the 340 works great on kubuntu 17.10 and 18.04
<BluesKaj> this Debian is the Buster testing version and it uses the 4.13 kernel by default , so maybe I'm in luck
<BluesKaj> the debian stretch 9.3  uses the old 4.9.05 kernel
<nacc> right now th eonly supported kernel series for ubuntu are 3.13, 4.4 and 4.13, right?
<Ian_Corne> aha BluesKaj is still around as well :)
<BluesKaj> nacc:  not sure , haen't tried any other kernels
<nacc> BluesKaj: sorry, i meant generally
<nacc> keeping track in my head right now for what to look for in #ubuntu
<nacc> 16.04 hwe moved to 4.13 for kpti
<BluesKaj> think the 4.13 is the latest stable
<nacc> yeah, that's my understanding too
<nacc> and 14.04 is either 3.13 or 4.4 (hwe); 16.04 is either 4.4 or 4.13 (hwe); artful is at 4.13 already, so is bionic
<nacc> i think that's all the releases we'd see in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ uname -a
<lotuspsychje> Linux R00TBOOK 4.13.0-25-generic #29-Ubuntu SMP Mon Jan 8 21:14:41 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<lotuspsychje> :p
 * BluesKaj nods
<daftykins> !17.10
<ubot5> Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark) is the current release of Ubuntu. Download at http://www.ubuntu.com/download - Release Notes: https://ubottu.com/y/artful
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/01/24/meltdown-spectre-and-ubuntu-what-you-need-to-know/
<lotuspsychje> big read :p
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys
<nicomachus> nacc: seems that candidate would be even more buggy, right?
<nacc> nicomachus: why would you say that?
<nicomachus> I didn't see any mention of a candidate release on their listing
<nacc> nicomachus: candidate is the next stablle release
<nicomachus> I just assume it's a beta still.
<nacc> well, that would be beta :)
<nacc> but in this case beta == candidate
<nacc> and candidate means 'next release'
<nacc> it's where bugfix testing would occur
<nacc> like any other software proejct
<nacc> so if you hit a bug, it makes sense to test if it's already fixed :)
<nicomachus> https://www.spotify.com/us/download/linux/
<nacc> snaps make it super eay
<nacc> easy
<nicomachus> also, as of march 2016, spotify had no developers on linux.
<nicomachus> maybe that's changed, but I haven't seen any updates to the client that would make me think it has
<nacc> https://snapcraft.io/spotify/  afaik, spotify did the upload
<nacc> and the contact link for the snap is to spotify's site
<nacc> so i feel like maybe a bit out of date on your info :)
<nicomachus> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/03/spotify-linux-no-development
<nacc> nicomachus: that's the deb
<nacc> the deb is dead
<nacc> and that post is a year old
<nacc> the deb is dead because spotify couldn't maintain it in their free time
<nacc> they *can* maintain the snap in their free time
<nacc> becuase they don't need to SRU anything
<nacc> they can just push bugfixes after they CI in house
<nacc> i would say forget whatever experience you had with the deb
<nacc> and focus on the snap
<nacc> if you want to improve it
<nicomachus> forums seem to say that the snap is maintained by the community
<nicomachus> idk how that works.
<nicomachus> and the official Community Manager says "this version is unsupported" when referring to the linux client: https://community.spotify.com/t5/Desktop-Linux/Recent-linux-client-update-changes/td-p/3121424
<nacc> nicomachus: that would also be from months ago
<nacc> and says "Debian package"
<nacc> seriously, the snap came out .. 2days ago?
<nacc> so anything you read from older than that is irrelevant
<nacc> the snap is *unrelated* to the deb
<nacc> afaik, they have nothing in commmon
<nacc> https://community.spotify.com/t5/Desktop-Linux/bd-p/desktop_linux
<nacc> hrm, that topic (https://community.spotify.com/t5/Desktop-Linux/Spotify-now-has-a-Snap-package-as-well/td-p/4220931) says community mainatined as well
<nacc> but then spotify says they maintain it :)
<nacc> so i'd trust spotify on that
<nacc> in any case, that makes me more certain to say don't use the debs and any documentationa bout debs is old and should be burned in holy fire
<nicomachus> yea, this says they maintain it: "The snap package is maintained by Spotify, just like the debian package. We have however received lots of help from Canonical and bug reports from users here and on the snapcraft forum"
<nacc> yep
<nacc> i'm not really a snap evangelist, to be cllear
<nacc> i think for something like spotify, where some spotify folks want it to exist, it makes a lot of sense
<nacc> it doesn't fit all things, and there will be debs forever
<nicomachus> they're still packaging the deb though: http://repository.spotify.com/pool/non-free/s/spotify-client/
<nacc> yes
<nacc> i think they said that in the post you just quoted it
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> hey just woke up mate
<lotuspsychje> gonna heat up this weekend a bit here
<lotuspsychje> 15 degrees
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> what your upto EriC^^
<EriC^^> still raining here
<lotuspsychje> didnt know lebanon had rain?
<EriC^^> not much wish it wasnt raining i want to test the car
<lotuspsychje> got a new one?
<EriC^^> no it was having some problems after 5000rpm so i tried cleaning the air mass flow sensor
<EriC^^> yeah lebanon isn't like most of the countries in the middle east, it's very different
<lotuspsychje> ah
<EriC^^> we have green every where, mountains, sea, beautiful weather, best nightlife in the world, and it's a christian country
<nacc> lotuspsychje: going to bed here, good luck with the trolls
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ty for trying nacc
<lotuspsychje> at least taterots got banned hehe
<nacc> lotuspsychje: i don't doubt that spotify in mate does something wonky
<nacc> their boutique is strange
<nacc> and makes mate different than stock ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> spotify is perfect on snap now right
<lotuspsychje> so mate can install snaps too
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> the boutique is weird, though
<nacc> its curated, iirc
<nacc> and only does debs
<nacc> but i'm not 100% on that
<nacc> they auto-add PPAs
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<nacc> it's ... fugly for support
<lotuspsychje> but snaps are jailed right
<lotuspsychje> cant scramble up atp?
<lotuspsychje> apt
<nacc> they are unrelated, right
<nacc> so my point, briefly, is in mate, teh boutique will add the spotify ppa
<nacc> and install the deb
<nacc> that is deprecated now (well, sort of)
<nacc> and i dont' thinkt he boutique can install snaps
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: didnt know it was christian
<lotuspsychje> nacc: didnt try mate for a long time, not sure on it
<Insectorx_> Ok im here.   I promise i mean well
<ferretsatsuma> I know you do
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx_: do you understand what trolling means?
<EriC^^> yeah lebanese are also pretty openminded cause like 16 countries had invaded them, last it was the french that's why we have very good ties with france
<ferretsatsuma> Iâm not sure thatâs what heâs doing.
<Insectorx_> I dont wanna be a troll.  But id
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: nacc tryed to help him, but he was turning in circles
<ferretsatsuma> He might be experiencing the feeling of dejection that a newcomer feels when he sees Linux officionados swannign around like jeunesse dorÃ©e.
<EriC^^> we finally got our independence like 70 years ago or something
<ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: I believe you, but his frustration comes from a deeper plae.
<ferretsatsuma> place.
<lotuspsychje> nice EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: how do you know what happened, you just joined?
<Insectorx_> I just want to know what to do to be a linux user
<ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: I didnt say I knew what happened. I said...
<ferretsatsuma> âHe might be experiencing the feeling of dejection that a newcomer feels when he sees Linux officionados swannign around like jeunesse dorÃ©e.â
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: Thereâs quite a learning curve, the documentation is suboptimal, and the users can be cliquey.
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: if you dont know what happened, you cant possibly know how he feels
<EriC^^> he's psychic, ok
<lotuspsychje> this is a problem of argueing instead of listening
<EriC^^> :p
<Insectorx_> Seriously tho.  Is it a troll to not have a positive experience with Ubuntu and have questions about it?
<ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: Would you like to see my CV?
<lotuspsychje> no
<Insectorx_> Im not pro windows or pro apple X
<ferretsatsuma> lotuspsychje: Then stop bickering,.
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: Thatâs the thing.
<Insectorx_> Im legitimately looking for another os
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: Rightâ¦ and Linux might suit you, but thereâs quite a learning curve.
<Insectorx_> Please bleieve me that im not trying to be a troll or dick
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: Your frustration is a natural response to the way that the Linux community can be.
<Insectorx_> Thank you for understanding man
<lotuspsychje> this place is ubuntu, not general linux help
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: Thereâs a lot of groupthink going on. Thereâs also a kind ofâ¦ I canât think of the word. Being one of the group vs not being one of the group
<Insectorx_> I wouldnt push if i didnt have the desire to learn
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: n/p, Iâve been here since 1998.
<Insectorx_> Youre cool.  Thanks for understanding
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: n/p. All you needed was for someone to empathize.
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx_: the fact from this morning was: you asked a question then dont answer what the volunteer asked and keep asking you need 'linux' help
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: You see, lots of IT folks are either on the autism spectrum or are dicks. The former is a medical condition; the latter is a result of bad parenting and/or being isolated from regular people.
<lotuspsychje> !language | ferretsatsuma
<ubot5> ferretsatsuma: Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: You see, lots of IT folks are either on the autism spectrum or are tumescent male phalli. The former is a medical condition; the latter is a result of bad parenting and/or being isolated from regular people.
<ferretsatsuma> Better?
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: you cant generalize such statements
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx_: So, when they talk to you, they treat you like an outsider who has to earn his/her way into the group. Youâre treated with suspicion and a litlte bit of contempt because you havenât earned your way into their little club.
<Insectorx> Opps got disconnnected for a sec
<ferretsatsuma> wb
<ferretsatsuma> What was the last thing you heard me say? Iâm not sure Iâm being particularly interesting, but Iâll help you if I can.
<Insectorx> Anyway.  I guess i just need to address each problem as it comes.
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx: Yesâ¦ and remember, these people work in the I.T. equivalent of the DMV (except DMV employees are paid).
<Insectorx> Lol
<Insectorx> Good point
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: for a guy saying your here from 98, you spreading alot of FUD
<Insectorx> Also i respect people who put their time towards free open source projects.  But the "holier than thou" computer shit makes it hard
<ferretsatsuma> Exactly
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx: language please
<Insectorx> Sry
<ferretsatsuma> np
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx: so..after an hour of argueing...we still dont know what you want
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx: what will be your new approach?
<ferretsatsuma> I ran one & Iâve seen it from both sides: the snotty users who want free software and free tech support, the tin-pot dictators who think theyâre special because they have a .org website and a package in Debian...
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: same goes for you, whats your end prove out all of this?
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: what is it you want to learn him?
<Insectorx> I dont come on here often, but it seems like linux has a steep learning curve in general.  What is my best option for learning linux in a way that its usable?
<ferretsatsuma> Insectorx: Your local LUG
<Insectorx> ?
<ferretsatsuma> When people are face-to-face, theyâre less inclined to be jerks.
<Insectorx> Lug?
<lotuspsychje> volunteers are evil and users are poor?
<ferretsatsuma> Linux User Group â LUG
<ferretsatsuma> Theyâre like synagogues. Most cities have at least one. ;)
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx: this is not linux help, but ubuntu support
<Insectorx> Lol really?
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx: if you want to learn linux try ##linux
<Insectorx> Is that an irc channel??
<ferretsatsuma> for your local LUG? Possibly
<lotuspsychje> Insectorx: yes, your on irc :p
<ferretsatsuma> Your best bet is to go to Google and look up â<your city> Linux User Groupâ
<Insectorx> Cool.  I didnt know that existed
<Insectorx> Thanks
<ferretsatsuma> IRC is CMC (computer-mediated communciation), which is lean. By âleanâ I mean it has been stripped of nonverbal cues and nuances.
<ferretsatsuma> That means people can come across as jerks when they arenât trying to.
<ferretsatsuma> Itâs why emoticons were invented.
<lotuspsychje> ferretsatsuma: can you please not use profanity in ever sentence
<ferretsatsuma> Conversely, face-to-face has the usual social norms: donât insult people, donât yell, donât physically kick people out of the room, etc.
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lotuspsychje> how are you today
<ferretsatsuma> Hi
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje ferretsatsuma
<lordievader> How are you guys?
<lotuspsychje> fine here lordievader warming up
<ferretsatsuma> Good! Thank you for asking. Itâs a peaceful Thursday evening. Wife has the âflu, but sheâs on the mend. How are you?
<lordievader> Thursday evening? It's friday here already ð
<lordievader> Doing good here
<ferretsatsuma> Wish I could figure out why ldconfig is segfaulting. It runs perfectly on one copy of the filsystem, on the other, it segfaults. The filesystems are identical. (I ran âdiffâ twice.) Itâs weird.
<ferretsatsuma> I think itâs related to the auxiliary cacheâ¦ but if I run ldconfig.real -i (ignore the aux cache) then it segfaults on both filesystems. Iâll try again w/ the original disk image (before apt-get upgrade) and see if thereâs something wrong with libc.
<ducasse> good morning, all
<ferretsatsuma> morning
<ferretsatsuma> Thatâs weird. â¦ ldconfig.real -i segfaults if itâs run on a fresh copy of Ubuntu Core but not on Armbian.
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<jink> No.
<BluesKaj> ??
<jink> Just no.
<BluesKaj> to?
<jink> To everyting.
<jink> everything* even.
<BluesKaj> uhoh, sounding negtive
<jink> Really? :')
<BluesKaj> nevermind
<hggdh> (late) mornings to all
<ducasse> good afternoon :)
<daftykins> \o
<ducasse> oerheks: i see s10gopal is back again, i doubt he's actually trying any of the suggestions he's been given
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> \o daftykins :)
<oerheks> ducasse, acpi issue perhaps, i am not sure that drainage is a bug, if the uefi stuff is keeping wireless up for updates
<ducasse> could try the acpi_osi kernel parameter
<oerheks> he does not want to read about bug reporting
<ducasse> whenever he is given a suggestion, he responds "doesn't work" - with no time to have tested it
<oerheks> brb
<nicomachus> weird. Got a pop-up GUI window saying a new update or release or something was ready but I closed it before I looked real close. apt update && apt full-upgrade found nothing. do-release-upgrade didn't even find anything. weird stuff.
<oerheks> oi, maybe a push for a security update?
<oerheks> kernel perhaps
<nicomachus> I had a kernel upgrade yesterday but not today
<nicomachus> I think I'm up to -105 on the 4.4 kernel now
<nicomachus> oh wow. -112
<daftykins> yeah 112 here
<nicomachus> just removed -104
<nicomachus> have -109 and -112 in /boot. why the number hopping?
<daftykins> work on it, something doesn't work, build again
<oerheks> secret lucky lotto numbers
<nicomachus> yea I guess so. I've never paid super close attention to the versioning
<hggdh> nicomachus: the missing number are kernels that were built, but not released
<nicomachus> TJ-: gopal has to be trolling or just completely stupid.
<TJ-> No, he's just very lost
<nicomachus> he's been talking about his battery for at least a week now under a couple different nicks.
<nicomachus> says he's tried every solution that anyone suggests, and refuses to believe that maybe the batteries just bad.
<daftykins> oh dear a lying nick hopper
<TJ-> Yes, I know, I've been helping since he first arrived
<TJ-> Nothing wrong with the battery; there's a bug in the InSyde H20 firmware on these HP laptops
<nicomachus> you had him blacklist the radeon driver to disable his AMD gpu, and I guess he never did because I tried to get him to blacklist it again yesterday and he says it still "doesn't work". idk.
<oerheks> if he has no clue about his uefi/bios, maybe a bios updae would stop draining battery...
<TJ-> No, we reinstalled fresh since I had him /test/ blacklist radeon - but I also had him /remove/ the blacklist once it was clear it didn't help
<nacc> TJ-: what is "InSyde H20"?
<nacc> sounds ... stupid :)
<TJ-> I thought it was preventing the amdgpu driver from binding to the AMD GPU but it turns out that wasn't the reason; both modules need a kernel command-line parameter passing
<daftykins> intel EFI iirc
<TJ-> nacc: A brand of firmware
<daftykins> pretty common name and logo you'll see on systems over the years
<nacc> interesting
<nacc> TJ-: and it's known buggy?
<TJ-> nacc: oh yes, it's the one caused the broken Acer's/Lenovo's due to the Intel PLATFORM_SPI driver in 17.10
<nacc> TJ-: oh lovelly
<TJ-> nacc: and was implicated in the original Linux-bricks-my-EFI-boot-menu issues a few years ago where the NVRAM variables weren't getting deleted
<nacc> right
<nacc> TJ-: is there a bug filed to maybe try and detect such a case and emit a warning?
<TJ-> nicomachus: this is the 'fix' for having the amdgpu driver take the GPU:
<TJ-> "sudo sed -i 's/\(GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="\)/\1amdgpu.si_support=1 radeon.si_support=0 /' /etc/default/grub "
<nacc> TJ-: that was from that freedesktop bug?
<TJ-> the radeon.si_support=0 stops it from binding, and the amdgpu.si_support=1 allows it to bind
<TJ-> nacc: which case are you talking about?
<nacc> TJ-: the sed you just quoted; istr it was from an upstream bug someone filed?
<nacc> TJ-: just trying to check my recollection, and know when to cite it
<TJ-> I think it's still user-configured because driver support isn't complete for all the chipsets
<nacc> ah
<TJ-> I can't remember where I find it now
<TJ-> We seem to have a handful of LP bugs related to amdgpu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/?field.searchtext=amdgpu
<TJ-> nacc: it wouldn't surprise me if gopal's HP's battery drain is due to the TPM - I noticed in the dmesg that device doesn't configure correctly
<nacc> ah that would make some sense
<nacc> even when off, though?
<TJ-> but it's never off is it? that's the entire point with battery-powered devices, it's always on, just (suppposed to be) supplying very little current when 'off'
<nacc> the TPM, yeah, i suppose that's possiblly true
<nacc> i'm not sure, tbh
<nacc> some BIOS let youd siable the TPM as well
<TJ-> Even on desktops, you've got the same thing if you don't turn off at the wall. The PSU is providing 5V standby-by which keeps the PCH/southbridge powered so it can turn the system back on when the press-to-make power button is pressed
<TJ-> All the talk about the Intel MEI/AMT operating whilst the system is 'turned off' - techies should know better; it's on 5VSB - turn off at the wall the thing won't magically exfiltrate data!
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> This is what happens when software devs know nothing about hardware and electronics!
<Bashing-om> It's Friday ! ( most places ) - Welcome to weekend support :)
<daftykins> :D welcome back
<Bashing-om> Hey daftykins :) .. Good day in your neighborhood ?
<daftykins> not too bad at all thanks, i had the final bit of roof work done, some chimney pointing, the scaffold is likely to go very soon - and i had a curry tonight \o/ so all ace
<daftykins> all well in your neck of the woods also?
<TJ-> Just finished the initial disassembly/read of gopal's HP ACPI DSDT/SSDT - 9 external references no resolved (== bugging firmware)
<daftykins> oof
<TJ-> Grrr; In the DSDT there are several device-specific-methods triggered by specific UUIDs which I bet only the Windows drivers know about
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-27
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning, lotuspsychje - how are you?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse great and you?
<lotuspsychje> trying to fix an old packard bell P3 128ram
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks, having a quiet morning here
<lotuspsychje> its installing xp right now, but the machine is designed for 2000
<lotuspsychje> lubuntu32 bit is next on the list :p
<ducasse> it's not going to be a speed monster :)
<lotuspsychje> no lol
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the users choice to repair an old machine
<lotuspsychje> i mean customer
<lotuspsychje> perhaps use as big calculator lol
<ducasse> aha, right :)
<lotuspsychje> hey TJ-
<TJ-> morning :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: im happy the gods have heared my bug wishlist of systemd we talked about last time
<lotuspsychje> canonical promised to speed up :p
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<ducasse> hi EriC^^, TJ-
<EriC^^> hi ducasse
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: Pentium III !?
<daftykins> surely that's not a clients
<daftykins> that system should be dumped though, totally impractical for any modern, updated and secure OS
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: hehe, this is not my call mate
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: im awaiting his answer
<daftykins> mmm, but you can't knowingly work on XP for someone, since it's EOL
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: i wont suggest throwing hardware away to users, if they bring it to me
<daftykins> well you'll have to - no OS will fix that lemon!
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: that thing doesnt has internet lol only modem, no eth and wifi
<daftykins> haha dialup days
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> just tested lubuntu live, and runs fine
<TJ-> PCMCIA ethernet adapters
<lotuspsychje> 128mb ram lol
<TJ-> I still have some knocking around somewhere :)
<daftykins> it does not run fine :|
<lotuspsychje> lubuntu 16.04 is magic daftykins
<daftykins> unless all you like to do is see a desktop drawn and nothing besides
<lotuspsychje> what else will he do with that machine beside text and calculator
<daftykins> no that's utter rubbish, i proved this point a while back when i had a similar spec PII and put it on - it was dipping into swap immediately and was utterly useless
<daftykins> replace with a nice notepad and real calculator then :>
<lotuspsychje> depends what to compare with it..
<daftykins> and a pencil :D
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<lotuspsychje> i wouldnt use it, but its his machine from school edu days
<lotuspsychje> its not my call here
<daftykins> claiming it's usable though, you can't say that
<daftykins> lubuntu does not polish a turd
<lotuspsychje> depends on wich standards daftykins
<lotuspsychje> an old machine is an old machine
<lotuspsychje> you have to keep use it as an old machine
<daftykins> then giving them a Linux distro will invalidate that most likely
<lotuspsychje> i gave him the choice of xp and lubuntu, saying that xp is eol
<lotuspsychje> battery broke, ram was missing, hd was broken..
<lotuspsychje> i fixxed it, like he asked me to
<lotuspsychje> customers choice right
<lotuspsychje> its his choice to find it unworkable or not, and buy a new one
<daftykins> there are limits imo
<EriC^^> howdy gentlemen
<daftykins> i'd love to hear the use-case though xD
<daftykins> hey EriC^^ \o
<EriC^^> hey daftykins o/
<lotuspsychje> ill keep you informed on this one daftykins hehe
<lotuspsychje> curious also what he will do
<lotuspsychje> hmmm that makes me think, i still got an old travelmate i could try lubuntu on!
<daftykins> that old PII i tried died after a couple of lubuntu boots xD
<lotuspsychje> cool its an amd 3000
<daftykins> what generation?
<lotuspsychje> acer aspire 1350
<daftykins> nah the AMD 3000, is that an Athlon XP or newer?
<lotuspsychje> think its athlon xp yeah
<daftykins> daym
<daftykins> oof scaffolders coming, gotta go clear the decks
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> !info lubuntu-tweak-tool
<ubot5> Package lubuntu-tweak-tool does not exist in artful
<daftykins> haha there's nothing left to turn off ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> updating 600mb
<daftykins> they're disassembling it now, soon i'll have more light through the windows again :D
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: cool
<daftykins> and no more drunks climbing it on weekends and signing along to youtube right beside my bed! (that happened :P )
<lotuspsychje> uh?
<daftykins> (because he got up to the roof which is my bedroom)
<lubuntubox>  HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.13.0-32-generic i686 ** Distro: UbuntuÂ´ "xenialÂ´" 16.04uÂ´ ** CPU: 1 x Mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP 3000+ (AuthenticAMD) @ 796MHz ** RAM: Physical: 490.8MiB, 71.6% free ** Disk: Total: 36.1GiB, 86.1% free ** VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV280/M9+ [Mobility Radeon 9200 AGP] ** Sound: VIA8233 - VIA 82351: VIA82XX-MODEM - VIA 82XX modem ** Ethernet
<lubuntubox> : VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102/VT6103 [Rhine-II] ** Uptime: 6m 29s **
<lubuntubox> im old :p
<daftykins> and rubbish *cough*
<daftykins> ;D
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<lubuntubox> you mocking my shiny hardware?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> that's impressive, uptime 6 milleniums, 29 senturies :p
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> dinosaurs have the permission to survive!
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> \o wb
<BluesKaj> Hi daftykins
<oerheks> morning :-)
<BluesKaj> hey oerheks
<BluesKaj> desktop was acting up, had to reboot
<BluesKaj> there was a display and monitor upgrade waiting to take effect it seems
<daftykins> o0
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> https://www.deviantart.com/customization/screenshots/nix/newest/
<lotuspsychje> cool stuff
<lotuspsychje> OMG!
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/xorg-will-default-display-server-ubuntu-18-04-lts
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2018/01/26/bionic-beaver-18-04-lts-to-use-xorg-by-default/
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-4-lts-delayed-due-to-meltdown-and-spectre-security-vulnerabilities-519572.shtml
<lotuspsychje> hot news today
<TJ-> it's been in the works for a while - the PTI patches are breaking all sorts of stuff and there are far too many regressions
<tomreyn> wayland would have been nice, but it's just not there, yet.
<tomreyn> and... nvidia is not ready
<lotuspsychje> good ol xorg to the rescue
<tomreyn> and to the much increased attack surface
<tomreyn> or rather, not decreased
<TJ-> Not much point in reducing attack surface if it prevents users doing common operations from the GUI though. My point of view is reduced functionality or denying users to do something they explicitly could previously do is a Denial of Service
<tomreyn> nice POV. :) i'd say that remarkably impacting usability (as this early switch would surely do) would surely make people switch away from ubuntu (as has happened before when new technology was adopted / pushed just a little too early), and i guess that's enough of a reason not to.
<tomreyn> the really good thing is: we'll have a choice on what to use. :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<daftykins> given the lack of common features like that article refers to, it's more proof Wayland is just "new and shiny" and not ready imo
<daftykins> i say that firmly on the outside :D
<daftykins> definitely handy to make it easier to test with to provoke progress though i imagine
<lotuspsychje> fedora is on wayland, do they also occur such issues?
<daftykins> well that whole distro is the experimental one :D
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_debug_Wayland_problems#Known_issues.2C_frequent_complaints.2C_fundamental_changes
<lotuspsychje> !alis | Fint
<ubot5> Fint: Alis is an IRC service to help you find channels. For help on using it, see "/msg Alis help list" or ask in #freenode. Example usage: "/msg Alis list http"
<lotuspsychje> tnx TJ-
<lotuspsychje> alot of issues..
<TJ-> The biggest issue re privileges is forcing applications to be re-written to use policy-kit ... what happens when that loses favour and something else comes along...? We've seen that so many times. Whereas running an application as root makes it portable
<oerheks> lotuspsychje, bor3 got finally silenced
<Fint> So what are you want to tell me ,at all
<lotuspsychje> Fint: start with a question?
<Fint> que stion
<Fint> how to do it
<lotuspsychje> Fint: you seem not to understand #ubuntu is for ubuntu support
<lotuspsychje> so lets discuss here what you want?
<Fint> I'm a newcomer
<lotuspsychje> Fint: hi, im fint and i need...
<Fint> I'm Fint and i need knowledge
<daftykins> not specific enough.
<lotuspsychje> Fint: knowlegde of...?
<Fint> to know more
<Fint> the web
<daftykins> wrong place then
<TJ-> Fint: for more about Ubuntu maybe this will help? http://cn.ubuntu.com/desktop/
<Fint> thankyou
<BluesKaj> TJ-:  that desu guy seems to think the linux suppoert chat is his personal blog..i don't understand why he hasn't been warned ,,filling up the chat offtopic crap, altho he does helo, occassionally
<TJ-> BluesKaj: I don't notice it
<BluesKaj> i have him on ignore, maybe he backed off some
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<immu> hi friends
<immu> hi eric
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-01-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. WB .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: having a nice weekend?
<Bashing-om> Oh the norm .. lotuspsychje - doing support, see what I can learn .
<lotuspsychje> great
<Bashing-om> Been busier than usual for a Saturday night .
<Bashing-om> While quiet I am going to sneak out of here \o .
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> meet you on the other side Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Nighty nite .. see ya lotuspsychje :)
<ducasse> good morning, everyone
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> how are you this sunday
<ducasse> still waking up :) and you?
<lotuspsychje> same here, lazy sunday with coffee
<EriC^^> morning all
<EriC^^> ducasse, lotuspsychje
<ducasse> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> how are you today?
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks, just having a quiet morning - how are you?
<EriC^^> i'm good thanks, same
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^>  hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> !wayland
<ubot5> Wayland is a display server protocol that can be used instead of X. Ubuntu 17.10 onwards use Wayland by default on systems that support it. For more info, see https://wayland.freedesktop.org/
<lotuspsychje> !xorg
<ubot5> X.Org is an implementation of the X Windows System, and is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart it on an Ubuntu system, type 'sudo service lightdm restart'. To fix screen resolution or other X.Org problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution . See also !xorgconf
<zomaar> Someone here said that cloning disks with dd is unsupported when you use LVM but I wonder then what the actual way is to clone volumes if you didn't.
<BL4DE> since ubuntu replaces ubuntu gnome, will ubuntu eventually offer vanilla gnome session by default? I understand some users may wish a transition from unity with customized shell, but will it ever offer vanilla gnome by default in the future?
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: ubuntu 17.10 will come bit tweaked ubuntu-style
<lotuspsychje> and higher
<lotuspsychje> 18.04
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: also a new theme for 18.04 is in the make
<BL4DE> lotuspsychje: yeah I tested 17.10. I have to install gnome-session and vanilla-gnome-settings. I hope one day that gnome on ubuntu looks like it did on ubuntu gnome. hope for more upstream non tainted de
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: after you install ubuntu-desktop in the future you can tweak the way you want right
<lotuspsychje> remove/install what you like
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: ubuntu-gnome 16.04 will result upgrade to the tweaked gnome of 18.04
<BL4DE> lotuspsychje: since ubuntu gnome distro/flavor is discontinued I hope that they eventually provide the default gnome session :/
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: you mean like a gnome classic or so?
<lotuspsychje> or gnome3 vanilla
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: dont think thats gonna happen, as canonical wants the unity guys have a nice new experience
<BL4DE> lotuspsychje: I mean gnome shell vanilla upstream that looks like this. https://i.imgur.com/3VpQdgb.png
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: well yeah 18.04 will have gnome like that, but newly themed/tweaked ubuntu-style
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: you will still have the gnome feeling
<BL4DE> lotuspsychje: thanks for the help. You might think I'm crazy but I wish they used upstream configuration, with default adwaita theme
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: adwaita theme might be also available in themes, but perhaps not default
<lotuspsychje> BL4DE: adwaita, showing in my gnome-tweak-tool in themes section
<BL4DE> lotuspsychje: also if you install gnome-session and gnome-vanilla-settings it seems to also change gdm login screen color back to upstream default gray instead of orange
<pauljw> hi everyone
<pauljw> morning BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> ;Morning pauljw
<BluesKaj> pauljw:  we're about to get into another cold spell here, not as cold as the prervious one,  but a few degrees below 0F is still too cold for me.
<pauljw> :) they're talking about that here, too.  up and down this week then in early Feb a cold snap.
<pauljw> my wife and are taking a trip to the Smokies in Tennessee next week right when it may be getting cold and snowy.
<BluesKaj> maybe it'll be milder there
<lotuspsychje> re
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/ubuntu-18-04-new-app-to-do
<lotuspsychje> wb EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> check your /usr/var crossrat is comming :p
<lotuspsychje> https://thehackernews.com/2018/01/crossrat-malware.html
<oerheks> .. in /usr/var/ ???
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> pretty undetectable haha
<oerheks> yes, as there is no /usr/var/ .. great thinking
<lotuspsychje> bbl bit tv
<oerheks> yay, another happy customer
<Bashing-om> oerheks: IRT backnforth .. lshw shows radeon .. what do I fail to understand ?
<oerheks> back
<oerheks> <backnforth> oerheks, https://hastebin.com/xojosikeka.css
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: its been weeks registered trolls come mock us with random unsolvable issues
<lotuspsychje> they know how they work, and slip tru the system
<leftyfb> oh, I'm not sure it's unsolvable. But I'm pretty damn sure it's unsupported
<lotuspsychje> they sort of join in gangs, like 5 questions in 5min
<leftyfb> who in their right mind (that doesn't already know how to ) is running LILO on ubuntu regardless if you "can"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i wonder if that wouldnt give mass problems with todays ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> replace grub with lilo hehe
<guiverc> i saw a question earlier today on askubu about lilo..  it's still used on mainframes (s390) I think...
<lotuspsychje> !info lilo
<ubot5> lilo (source: lilo): LInux LOader - the classic OS boot loader. In component main, is optional. Version 1:24.2-3 (bionic), package size 263 kB, installed size 714 kB
<lotuspsychje> been ages since i saw one guiverc :p
<guiverc> lilo?  or mainframe??  or both?? :)
<lotuspsychje> lilo
<guiverc> really old debian for me (pre 2004/ubuntu... not sure I've ever seen lilo on ubuntu though. switched to grub before I tried ubuntu)
<lotuspsychje> its too long ago for me.. perhaps some early redhat?
<Katnip> redhat 6 and debian...
<Katnip> about 1998
<lotuspsychje> yeah that must have been it
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<oerheks> yay, netgear ... https://gist.github.com/nstarke/a611a19aab433555e91c656fe1f030a9
<lotuspsychje> iot & routers =zombieland2
<oerheks> Idiots of Technology
<lotuspsychje> lol
<oerheks> like the 737-max, designed by hoompa loompas
<lotuspsychje> admin:1234 also helps very much
<oerheks> admin:admin, standard by ziggo
<lotuspsychje> good idea to default passwords on connected devices
<pizzaiolo> morning
<lotuspsychje> morning pizzaiolo
<pizzaiolo> have an optional holiday today, should be pretty quiet in the office :)
<daftykins> daft question then... but just having a private key to one of their helper domains for reaching a home router, what's the best anyone can really do?
<lordievader> I suppose that routerlogin.com address redirects to the login page of your router. Suppose you divert the traffic to something which captures the credentials. If the admin webinterface is exposed to the internet, you can then login to their router.
<lordievader> From the perspective of the user everything is "fine" (correct keys used, etc.).
<daftykins> yeah i was thinking that might be the extent of it too, so not terribly exciting
<lordievader> You'd think they don't share the privkey among certificates... right?
<daftykins> oh yeah it's still a big fail :D
<daftykins> i'm always disappointed how these router companies only fix things when dragged along by the hand and forced
<pragmaticenigma> why fix the old, when there is the new shiny to produce?
<daftykins> let me relink you to oerheks share from just earlier - https://gist.github.com/nstarke/a611a19aab433555e91c656fe1f030a9
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> i have some twitters stored, that give these posts
<oerheks> more fun than Garfield comics
<oerheks> i need chrome on my server
<pragmaticenigma> how come?
<lordievader> I was about to say that is is strange to run a webbrowser on a server, and then I thought that I am running w3m quite frequently on my server XD
<lordievader> If only the email world would ditch html.
<pragmaticenigma> lordievader: ditch? they're trying to get it to be more compliant with HTML5
<lordievader> Or... we could just go back to plain text \o/
<pragmaticenigma> I suspect it's an uphill battle there lordievader ... ask your friendly local marketing guy
<lordievader> I know.
<lotuspsychje> bug #1841718
<ubot5> bug 1841718 in xserver-xorg-video-ati-hwe-18.04 (Ubuntu Bionic) "[radeon] Rendering of combo boxes and tooltips is broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841718
<lotuspsychje> a big one :p
<lordievader> Sounds like fun -.-
<lotuspsychje> we had a few user complaints about that
<oerheks> njummie
<pizzaiolo> what's going on in main?
<lotuspsychje> a user with a teleport bot
<lotuspsychje> teleporting meesages to another chat/server
<pizzaiolo> so they're on another network all together and the bot acts as the 'bridge'?
<lotuspsychje> it teleports between yeah
<oerheks> if this one is accepted, it opens the door to tons of scripts/bots
<oerheks> why he, not me?
<pragmaticenigma> I don't think it's been accepted... this individual seems to only come out when they're certain the ops aren't paying attention
<leftyfb> tomreyn: what came of keyrcbot?
<pragmaticenigma> at the moment... nothing... they never joined -ops and pricey is giving up
 * oerheks facepalms
<pragmaticenigma> last message logged from -ops: Pricey "I think it might be easier to move on with our lives. I expect the users will find it annoying (if there are multiple) and gentle recommendations of alternative clients to them at that point will give the best outcome."
<pragmaticenigma> So I guess we're left with asking keyrcbot user to please fix their client to make it more user friendly
<pragmaticenigma> change our approach
<oerheks> i just don't answer him anymore, done.
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks, leftyfb - For now, the compromise was to ask the user running keyrcbot to reconfigure their software so that it doesn't tag the messages with the remote user name, and Ideally if they could authenticate into freenode using the same remote username to reduce confusion
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: that's not how the client works
<pragmaticenigma> I figured as much, but perhaps requesting they find a better method for their "bridge" would prove effective?
<leftyfb> 2020 Jan 20 09:34:24 <keyrcbot>	[rudi9719]: This is not a debate. You can remove this account, and I can make another on another IP
<leftyfb> unlikely
 * oerheks hates that stupid ircbot in #kubuntu too
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... wasn't happy with their confrontational attitue
<pragmaticenigma> picking battles I guess
<pragmaticenigma> there's a bot in #kubuntu too?
<oerheks> official, yeah
<pragmaticenigma> oh
<hggdh> keyrcbot is not a bot, it is a bridge. Although I find most bridges slightly annoying, some users find them useful (for example, from work I cannot connect to IRC, so I might want to use a bridge)
<hggdh> if we cannot auto-complete the actual user, this is a problem on the bridge side, not on IRC. (I have no idea how keyrcbot deals with it, but, again, not my problem)
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: Yes, we get that, and that was discussed in the -ops channel as a valid use. However, they should be configured properly to reduce the amount of noise. I see no reason that the person in question can't properly configure or find a more appropriate piece of software to do their bridging without making it difficult for other users to communicate with them
<hggdh> so, to call it a bot is just plainly wrong.
<oerheks> he said others use it too.. so another potential ircsomebot account that delivers spam?
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: The issue taken is the fact that the user claims to have multiple people behind the bridge, where as multiple people behind the bridge trying to help different people in the #u channel is going to cause great confusion and irritation. We're trying to make the use of Ubuntu as pleasent as possible. Nothing worse than going to the support room, and having no idea who to talk to or who is actually responding to you
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: I see no reason for WHY they MUST "properly configure it". It is working for them. If they cannot distinguish which message is for which of their users, they will soon have a reason to "reconfigure" it.
<oerheks> :(
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: you keep missing the point... THERE ARE MULTIPLE USERS BEHIND IT. The operator claimed as much... but ops can just keep cherry picking words from my comments
<hggdh> IF they start to be annoying because of lack of proper addressing, then we can consider other actions
<pragmaticenigma> I would much rather not see it come to that
<pragmaticenigma> being reactive to such an incident is a poor experience for all... especially for a new person just coming into the community
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: yes, I know, this is the idea of a bridge. Their problem, not ours. But you went on attack mode first
<pragmaticenigma> I asked as politely as I could
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: my first request to them was far, far from being aggressive or an attach
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: again, the benefit of doubt.
<hggdh> if they start spamming, we will deal with them as we deal with any other spammer. Being a bridge, this means that all of their users will be affected (and, again, this is their problem)
<pragmaticenigma> oh... so you can go and make it sound like I was the agressor, but completely ignore the behavior of them there after.... quite the double standard... but then again... that seems to be the montra of ops
<hggdh> I see it as neing rude. They answered -- and it mostly always happen -- being rude as well. They were NOT being spammers, and they were NOT off-topic.
<pragmaticenigma> I was not rude, that was never my intention. I asked them as kindly as I could... but there you go with the double standard... give them the benefit of the doubt, but accuse me of being aggressive in my opening statement
<hggdh> the mantra of ops is "try to de-escalate", "give the user the benefit of doubt", "try to understand". Not go straight on a "dura lex, sed lex" stance
<oerheks> This is just opening the door for other "services"..
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: yeah... benefit of doubt... yet you just ouright accused me of something that was not my intention
<hggdh> oerheks: yes. Some of them will be bad. Some of them will be nice. Just like any registered user
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: I did not say it was your intention. But this is how it came thru
<pragmaticenigma> your own words said I was aggresive
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: and oerheks is right, we require registration, to help minimize the spam and clutter. This person is allowing other users to use their gateway as a means to bypass the very thing we're trying to prevent in the first place
<hggdh> yes. You were. But this does not mean you *intended* to be so. It is just the way they read it (and I as well)
<pragmaticenigma> so to me, it really does appear that something needs to be done about it now, before it becomes the problem down the road.
<hggdh> so, they one of their users abuse, we /quiet /kick /ban (as needed) the whole bridge.
<hggdh> I do not see the problem. This has happened before
<pragmaticenigma> I have been in here for the better part of 2 years now... this is the first time I've witnessed this type of behavior. I'm not discounting the benefit of a bridge, not everyone can maintain a constant connection. But you and the rest of -ops just discount the fact that 4 people all have the same opinion about this particular case, and you refuse to do nothing about it
<pragmaticenigma> *to do anything about it
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: also to note those 4 people are among the larger contributors in providing assistance in channel
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: par for the course with the ops. Blame the volunteers and let the abusers go about their business
<pragmaticenigma> you forget leftyfb ... also tell the volunteer to back down because "reasons"
<pragmaticenigma> citing previous incidence without providing proof
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: I know all about it. Been dealing with it for a while now.
<pragmaticenigma> In recent history, I so seldom raise things to the level of ops... yet I'm made out to be the bad guy... let alone trying to ask a user in #u why they're connected the way they are would result in immediate action by ops to say I was offtopic no less
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: don't take it personally. This is how the ops operate.
<pragmaticenigma> I don't take it personally... i just don't like being shutdown on whims of fancy
<hggdh> <sigh/>
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: Let's change the perspective and drop the pretense... What I and others are asking for, is not the ban or removal of that user. We aren't even focused on the usage of the "bot" or whatever is the more appropriate term to call it. What we are asking for is that ops attempt to reach out to this person, and attempt to ask them to make whatever it is that they're using, more transparent to reduce the friction for users
<pragmaticenigma> trying to request help. The confrontation comes from the perceived apathy from ops that no effort is made other than to ask the person who raised the issue to step back.
<pragmaticenigma> which is why we have these disagreements. if ops wants to do nothing, that is well within their right, but to brush others off serves as a real disservice to everyone trying to make this a better community
<hggdh> well
<hggdh> first of all, what pretense?
<hggdh> secondly, in what ways did the owner of the bot break the rules? Please note that the fact you do not like a bridge does not make is intrinsicly bad, or mean
<pragmaticenigma> there you go again, putting words in my mouth... did you read what I said in -ops? I said I don't mind a bridges, but would appreciate them configured to avoid such friction in addressing a user on the other end
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: the guidelines... the guidelines that are published at !guidelines... right there, in the text says NO BOTS
<pragmaticenigma> Ubuntu already provides bots for channel logging, for help, and factoid related queries - there really is no need for more bots. If you think another bot would be helpful, contact the channel operators first.
<pragmaticenigma> that is right from the guidelines page itself
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: so if you want to keep calling it a bot.. .then by the very definition of the term, it's not allowed per the very guidelines the ops are supposed to be upholding
<hggdh> this is a bridge, and it is behaving as a bridge
<pragmaticenigma> so now we're going to flip flop on the term
<pragmaticenigma> PICK ONE!
<pragmaticenigma> What do you want to call it hggdh ?
<pragmaticenigma> seriously... ops needs to pick what they're going to define it as... and as such, there are much better implementations of bridges out there that don't echo like this one does
<pragmaticenigma> The source for keyrcbot is right here hggdh : https://github.com/Rudi9719/keyrcbot/blob/master/keyrcbot.go
<pragmaticenigma> it's defined as a bot
<pragmaticenigma> so lets go with that... and since the author is calling it a bot, but the definition in the guidelines, it's not allowed
<pragmaticenigma> s/buy/by/
<hggdh> I would call it a bridge. I *did* call it a bridge before. But you are fixed on bot, so I thought it would be easier to call it a bot. I apoligise
<hggdh> And I do not really care on what they call themselves. It is -- so far -- a bridge. While it behaves like a bridge, no problems.
<pragmaticenigma> Except that it is confusing users in chat... they don't know who to reply to
<hggdh> I also would like to point out that -- until oerheks and you started questioning it -- their users we behaving nicely.
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: and how is this a problem for you?
<pragmaticenigma> We pointed it out because we're were having issues not knowing who they're talking to
<hggdh> when THEY send a message, they can add a nick -- and it WILL highlight the nick. When YOU send to them, you can only tab-resolve to the bridge's nick. So I see this as a problem for THEM
<oerheks> Indeed, he is polite. but my point is; it opens the door for other services, i don't like to see whatsapp/matrix spam, without knowing what to do
<pragmaticenigma> I'm really on the camp with oerheks ... it's that it is opening the door to a point where it will get out of control. better to uphold the rules per the letter of such rules... than give graces to some and not others
<pragmaticenigma> it just makes it more difficult down the road... if you were a landlord and had a rule of not allowing residents to plant flowers, but because one asked nicely you let them... then you have everyone planting flowers... then there is the one unit that waters their flowers and dumps water on the passerbys below
<oerheks> oke, now we are all up2date about this bridge, i appreciate your comments on this hggdh
<pragmaticenigma> now how are you going to tell that person they can't have flowers on their patio, when everyone else can...
<hggdh> I understand where you are going (or so I think). But the analogy breaks at a few points. (1) a landlord cannot evict a resident without some due legal process; we can, on the other hand, if we perceive the need
<hggdh> (2) they did not behave as a bot EVEN if they named themselves one;
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: the due process wouldn't be a problem if the first person wasn't allowed to do the behavior in the first place
<hggdh> (3) everything was going nicely UNTIL you started discussing it
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: and there we're back to blaming me for all this
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: so much help
<pragmaticenigma> much luv
<hggdh> the due process is ALWAYS needed. And users can misbehave even when they are not behind a bridge
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: please read "you" as a collective
<hggdh> all y'all if you prefer
<pragmaticenigma> right hggdh but they typically don't misbehave... as they recoginize it's their direct handle at risk of being kicked
<hggdh> so, again: what was the problem?
<hggdh> again: everything was going nice until all y'all started discussing it
<pragmaticenigma> i've explained every avenue to which you just won't read or just outright perfer to shift blame... alll you're doing at this point is trying to wear me down and hope I go away
<pragmaticenigma> We asking for the mods to be proactive, rather that reactive when it becomes a problem. All I'm asking is that you reach out... but you can't be bothered... because the ops are too busy to give too rips about the reputation of the community... let's wait till it gets as bad as ##linux... then try to do something... but oops, that'll fail because of the due process that wasn't followed in the firs tplace
<hggdh> Oh, I see. *I* am shifting blame to all y'all, but YOU are not shifting blame to the ops :-)
<pragmaticenigma> well you're certainly not upholding your pillar of de-escalation either
<hggdh> (1) they did not cause problems; (2) if, and when, they became a problem we will deal with them; (3) not liking them is not reason. There. Clear, I hope.
<pragmaticenigma> and you go puting more words in my mouth
<pragmaticenigma> what a turd you are
<hggdh> and we can keep on in -ops, if you want, so we have a record
<pragmaticenigma> why... so I can go on being ignored there too?
<hggdh> you are not being ignored. I am just not agreeing with your reasoning, which is quite different. But I *am* trying
<pragmaticenigma> then please, stop the blame shifting and I'll do the same
<pragmaticenigma> I'm trying my best to explain what my position is... but I keep getting accused of having it in for the other party. That's what I meant by drop the pretense
<oerheks> pragmaticenigma,  breeth in and out, lets wait and see what is going to happen, besides, i do not like to loose you as volunteer
<oerheks> people left #u for less troubles
<hggdh> oerheks: I do not remember threatening to kick pragmaticenigma
<oerheks> no, you didn't, but i feel there is some tension that should not be there, between *us*
<hggdh> I agree. And I am sorry I could make myself clear.
<oerheks> it is all about people and people, in the end.
<pragmaticenigma> hggdh: Here's what I'm asking, and only what I'm asking. I have a concern with a person in #u that appears to be using software that they have defined as a "bot" to provide themselves with a bridge to another chat system. I'm asking that the -ops please reach out to the individual on the basis that the channel prefers a bot not be used. I recommend that -ops ask this individual to consider updating their software to make
<pragmaticenigma> it appear that they are a regular user to provide a more consistent user experience for everyone.
<pragmaticenigma> that's it
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: OK. I will pass it on.
<pragmaticenigma> I always intended this to be an ask, and that's all anyone I feel would like to see
<Bashing-om> UWN614 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue614
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<tomreyn> hey there, lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey hey tomreyn
<jeremy31> I will not be awake at 12:44 AM
<lotuspsychje> blame years of working in shifts
<tomreyn> the earÃ¶y bird catches ... the first ticket
<jeremy31> second mouse gets the cheese
<lotuspsychje> lol tomreyn
<lotuspsychje> the first ticket is MINE
<tomreyn> second mouse gets grumpy tom
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> anyone with ati seen updates coming in?
<tomreyn> i only got amdgpu, and that's on 18.04, no recent updates
<lotuspsychje> kk tnx
<lotuspsychje> now bug #1841718 is fixxed
<ubot5> bug 1841718 in xserver-xorg-video-ati-hwe-18.04 (Ubuntu Bionic) "[radeon] Rendering of combo boxes and tooltips is broken" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841718
<pragmaticenigma> well... fix committed... I say fixed when it's released
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-21
<jeremy31> pragmaticenigma: I haven't seen any issue using wifi with IP assigned static from router in Ubuntu 18.04 or Mint 19
<jeremy31> I can say I haven't seen many complaints on ubuntuforums or the Mint forums about DHCP
<pragmaticenigma> jeremy31: but are you running netplan?
<jeremy31> If they have their own netplan config, that might be the issue
<pragmaticenigma> thats what i'm unsure of... but thats what they're using to manage their network
<lotuspsychje> https://snapcraft.io/search?category=server
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<EdFletcherT137> evening!
<jeremy31> guiverc: Are the nvidia dkms packages in Bionic updated for 5.3 kernel support?
<guiverc> sorry jeremy31, I don't know & can't help
<pragmaticenigma> JimBuntu: Was trying to keep the approach simple... as gnome is deprecating the ability to have icons on the desktop in the near future
<marcoagpinto> heya
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<JimBuntu> I hear ya pragmaticenigma and totally understand.
<JimBuntu> I need to figure out how to manage alerts when using Irssi via ssh/tmux. I'm not getting any audible notifications as far as I know :/
<pragmaticenigma> I've been tempted to move over to irssi, not sure about the bell stuff
<daftykins> silence is great
<oerheks> http://quack1.me/linux_beep_terminal-en.html
<oerheks> JimBuntu, ^^
<JimBuntu> thanks oerheks, I'll check that out!
<pizzaiolo> marcoagpinto is that the infamous cola demon i see?
<marcoagpinto> yes, it is me
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> almost my birthday!!!! Less than a week
 * JimBuntu slides a 1 liter of soda to marcoagpinto 
<marcoagpinto> thanks, JimBuntu
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<pragmaticenigma> enabler!
<leftyfb> marcoagpinto: you're going to regret drinking so much soda. It'll start in your 30's. Waking up in the middle of the night because of heartburn. Not fun man. I'm telling you.
<pragmaticenigma> I'm more worried about their liver
<leftyfb> I don't have liver problems. But they might.
<pragmaticenigma> high surgar diet can cause fatty liver... not good either
<leftyfb> I had to have my throat dilated due to the swelling from the heartburn
<pragmaticenigma> this doesn't sound like fun
<leftyfb> I have to take medicine every day for the rest of my life to keep it in check. I'm currently trying to get off of omeprazole due to it's toxicity and possible mental issues down the road. Though the current option is barely keeping up
<marcoagpinto> I am almost 50
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> so, no 30s forme
<marcoagpinto> for me
<marcoagpinto> on Monday I will be 46 years old
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> almost 50
<marcoagpinto> :p
<oerheks> i am almost 99
<oerheks> 52 now
<marcoagpinto> ahhhhh
<marcoagpinto> >:) I was optimising the code of my PhD tool but I messed the code... fortunately the CTR + Z (undo) worked for the dozens of changes I have done... I undone the whole search and reply changes
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> so lucky
<marcoagpinto> it is easier as a coder to do search and replace
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> search and replace*
<pragmaticenigma> not sure if cinamon is available in the mini poll box
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: ^ ^
<oerheks> oh..
<pragmaticenigma> oh boy oerheks ... jackhum has been at this for weeks... they're going to try, and fail
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: what jackhum is neglecting to tell you is... they upgraded from 16.04 to 18.04 (somehow) and botched the upgrade, leaving them with a crippled system. They are now trying to "repair" it
<oerheks> reinstall could work.
<oerheks> and if they have no backup of their precious data...
<oerheks> lolz
<oerheks> then it is not precious
<pragmaticenigma> I don't know what this dude is doing
<oerheks> he gives himself answer, that is great
<pragmaticenigma> interesting... I cannot find a directory that might hold where synaptic keeps a log of its activity /var/lib/synaptic is empty $HOME/.synaptic doesn't have anything either
<oerheks> me too, not in .config nor .cache
<oerheks> there is dpkg.log and /var/log/apt/history.log ..
<pragmaticenigma> at the moment... find is being stubborn and I don't know why
<sarnold> fatrace or opensnoop are quite useful for these kinds of problems
<pragmaticenigma> ohs... i was using the wrong wild cards
<pragmaticenigma> sarnold: how so?
<sarnold> pragmaticenigma: you can start up opensnoop in one terminal, run synpatic to do a thing, and see all the files that were accessed
<pragmaticenigma> that works in the active session... we're trying to figure out the after... oh... wait... I see where you were going
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: /root/.synaptic/log
<oerheks> nice find, thanks!
<pragmaticenigma> no no no... thank sarnold for such a great idea
<sarnold> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-22
<tomreyn> So apparently there are no kernels nor initrd's on the live cds according to bug 1860495
<ubot5> bug 1860495 in linux (Ubuntu) "vmlinuz and initrd are missing in /boot on the Live CD" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860495
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<peepsalot> I'm curious about how bug fixes are handled in older LTS releases such as 16.04, when the packages they use are considered not supported by their maintainers?  (for example Qt which seems to have a very aggressive end of support schedule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_version_history#Qt_5 )
<lotuspsychje> !info software-properties-gtk eoan
<ubot5> software-properties-gtk (source: software-properties): manage the repositories that you install software from (gtk). In component main, is optional. Version 0.98.5 (eoan), package size 61 kB, installed size 439 kB
<guiverc> peepsalot, your question about fixes in older LTS releases will likely vary on packages; most of 16.04 LTS packages found in universe are no longer supported; so don't get fixes (eg. Kubuntu 16.04 LTS had 3 years of support as it was a flavor, it's eol like mate, lubuntu, xubuntu etc...)
<guiverc> peepsalot, for 'main' packages, the fixes are backported to the package already in the older release; unless it's more work to backport than provide newer version...
<peepsalot> guiverc: i'm specifically concerned about this issue: https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-55245#  kinda wondering if there's any chance it would get fixed in Qt 5.5.1 which is used by 16.04
<peepsalot> or if I would have any better luck reporting through ubuntu than Qt directly?
<guiverc> Kubuntu 16.04 LTS is EOL & thus doesn't get support; as I recall a single package was fixed post-EOL date (by a few days); but it was an exception.
<guiverc> Kubuntu 16.04 LTS was released on 21st April 2016, and was supported for Kubuntu for a period of year 3 years.* Kubuntu 16.04 LTS support therefore ends 21st April 2019  https://kubuntu.org/news/trusty-14-04-lts-end-of-life-and-end-of-kubuntu-support-for-xenial-16-04-lts/
<guiverc> I'm not aware of any Qt packages for 16.04 in 'main' (thus with 5 years of support)
<peepsalot> guiverc: but qt5-default is part of xenial main as far as I understand, not just Kubuntu, and its supposed to be supported until Apr 2021?
<guiverc> https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/qt5-default == universe
<peepsalot> oh, oops
<guiverc> if it's on your system, use `ubuntu-support-status` to inspect for packages installed on your system
<peepsalot> i'm on mint 19.2, which is 18.04 based.  i'm just concerned because I work on a project which supports Ubuntu 16.04, and would really like that bug fix
<peepsalot> hell, i'd really like it for 18.04 too, which isn't even out of support for Qt yet
<peepsalot> Qt 5.9.5
<peepsalot> guiverc: do you know what is policy for updating packages in universe then?  is there any chance it could be fixed for Qt 5.9.5, backported by ubuntu or something?
<peepsalot> looks like ubuntu-support-status is part of update-manager-core package, not sure if installing that will interfere with default mint updater though, so not too keen on testing it
<guiverc> I can't help with mint; I have no idea.
<lotuspsychje> peepsalot: you should mention you are using mint at the beginning of your questions
<lotuspsychje> peepsalot: mint has another support channel/server
<peepsalot> i contribute to an open source packaage that supports ubuntu 16.04.  this isn't specifically about what my system is running
<lotuspsychje> peepsalot: discussing here is allowed for everyone of course, but details 'can' matter when asking questions so volunteers can aid better
<peepsalot> our CI servers run Ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04, among other OS
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<tomreyn> i spent 30 minutes yesterday ebcause i didn't remember what is the exact kernel command line option to boot into non-graphical multi-user mode. i was certain it'd start with either "systemd.target", "systemd-target", "x-systemd.target" or "x-systemd-target", and would be followed by one of "multi-user" or "multi-user.target"
<tomreyn> turns out it is actually "systemd.unit=multi-user.target" :-/ we might want a factoid for this
<lotuspsychje> !systemd
<ubot5> systemd is the default init system for Ubuntu 15.04 onwards. For information on transitioning from upstart to systemd, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers For a guide to basic service management with systemd, see https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-use-systemctl-to-manage-systemd-services-and-units
<tomreyn> i haven't found the kernel parameters to be documented anywhere
<tomreyn> or initrd parameters rather
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: alinea Adjusting the System State (Runlevel) with Targets is related?
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: where do you see this?
<lotuspsychje> the digitalocean one
<tomreyn> well, it explains targets in systemd, but not how to boot to them overriding the default target by using kernel command line parameters
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> !kernelparm
<ubot5> To add a one-time or permanent kernel boot parameter see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelBootParameters
<tomreyn> we should have a list or explain how to get a list of initrd supported kernel command line parameters
<tomreyn> having it is more user friendly - until it gets outdated.
 * pragmaticenigma is obsolete :-P
<tomreyn> aaaah crap there is actually kernel-command-line(7)
<lotuspsychje> where did you find tomreyn
<tomreyn> i knew about bootparm(7) which doesn't discuss this, and while searchign the web for it stumbled into http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/bootparam.7.html where, on the footer, it says:   Pages that refer to this page: reboot(2),  boot(7),  kernel-command-line(7)
<tomreyn> so we should mention bootparm(7) and kernel-command-line(7) on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/KernelBootParameters
<lotuspsychje> i know someone that likes editing wiki's :p
<tomreyn> i don't
<lotuspsychje> me neither :p
<tomreyn> okay, done
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: -X always results in an error message being displayed... -Y doesn't... that's why I use -Y... I've not looked in to -G before and I don't know what it does and I don't setup my SSH clients to automatically any forwarding
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: Also, -X is mapped to forwardx11, -Y is mapped to fowardx11trusted
<pragmaticenigma> so I'm not understanding your point
<sarnold> pragmaticenigma: I'm pretty sure debian and ubuntu -X and -Y mean the same thing https://sources.debian.org/src/openssh/1:8.1p1-5/debian/patches/debian-config.patch/?hl=47#L47
<dps> :wave:
<dps> afternoon everyon!
<dps> everyone*
<sarnold> hey dps
<pragmaticenigma> sarnold: Yeah, I tried it and found that is the case from debian to debian system. With cygwin, it always throws a warning message if I try to use -X... that was the basis of my original thought pattern
<pragmaticenigma> It would appear in debian, -X and -Y might be interchangable then?
<dps> this may be a dumb question, but isnt it a bit unsafe for my IP address to be shown to everyone when i join a channel? lol
<sarnold> dps: you can connect via Tor if you wish to hide it
<pragmaticenigma> dps: You can also ask in #freenode for a "cloak"
<dps> yeah, i guess i could. im just wondering exactly what someone could do with that info. Maybe try gaining access to my rig you think?
<dps> oh ok, thanks! ill look into that
<pragmaticenigma> dps: If you're on a dynamically changing IP the risk is lower. If someone was actively trying to target you for something, that would be the only risk.
<pragmaticenigma> Personally I did it because I tansfer between a few locations, and I didn't like that those IPs don't change often enough, such that if someone were to be paying attention, they could determine if I were home or not
<pragmaticenigma> but the reality is, you're more likely to get targetted by someone doing a full sweep of the IPv4 address space, then someone from here.
<sarnold> dps: if your firewall is so poorly configured and you've got open services running that can be abused, you'd have already been abused due to just being on the internet; being on irc doesn't drastically change things there
<sarnold> dps: the usual risk of being on irc with an IP address visible is saying something to someone who then aims a ddos booter at you and destroys your ISP's connection. I haven't seen that in years, and those kids normally try to take down entire irc networks rather than individual users..
<daftykins> don't get suckered into these VPN services and other nonsense, all you need is to register with nickserv and get a cloak and then make sure you SASL auth at login prior to hopping in channels
<sarnold> yeah that's like 99% good enough
<pragmaticenigma> yup
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-23
<OERIAS> bonjour
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good noon
<jeremy31> Just heard a snow plow
<lotuspsychje> its sunny here
<jeremy31> about 2 hours until sunrise
<guiverc> grrr... I wanna write "You can't install 19.10 on a 32-bit only cpu" ... but I stupidly put 19.10 on a x86 box.. so I know it's ~possible  (was anyway)...  my doing that ages back now complicates? my wording...
<SwedeMike> https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-19-10-drops-32-bit-support/   that decision was reversed "Ubuntu Decides to Keep Supporting Selected 32-bit Libs After Developer Outrage"
<SwedeMike> interestingly enough, Steam said they would not support 64bit on Ubuntu, but they started to support 64bit on MacOS
<pragmaticenigma> thanks meonkeys waveform  :-)
<waveform> meonkeys, (continuing from discussion on device-trees); if you mean arm64 (rather than amd64) - sort of - the device-trees are usually generated as part of building the kernel and in the case of the pi that generates a whole pile of device-trees (for all models the built kernel supports)
<meonkeys> ah, I did, thanks
<waveform> meonkeys, e.g. if you have a look at the boot partition of a pi image (classic or core), you'll find a whole pile of .dtb files there (one for each model of pi supported)
<meonkeys> so if I were to brutally summarize, having both ubuntu-core-18-armhf+raspi2.img.xz and ubuntu-core-18-arm64+raspi3.img.xz on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/18/stable/current/ is a... shortcut until the device trees are complete so one ubuntu-core-18-arm64+raspi.img.xz could exist (or even one single ubuntu-core-18-arm64.img.xz ?)
<sarnold> note that arm64 is a different instruction set, different sizes of thousands of datastructures, etc
<sarnold> armhf is 32bit, amr64 is 64bit
<pragmaticenigma> I think a part that might be missing with RPI discussion, RPI are system-on-a-chip (or SoC), where what really happens is there is an entire OS in the CPU. Raspian and Ubuntu talk to that OS in order to talk to the device's ports and components. That's why you have to define all those dtb's
<waveform> well ... the device trees must've already existed to produce the image. However, and this is where I'm just speculating (all before my time), it's extremely common on most embedded platforms for one platform to be quite incompatible with another - it's *very* unusual to define an image that works across multiple embedded platforms, and I'm guessing the pi was treated like that initially, hence the core pi2 image, another pi3 image, etc.
<meonkeys> (argh, missed that in my example one was arm64 and one was armhf)
<waveform> however ... the pi is unusual in that instead of having embedded storage it uses uSD cards, and thus it's fairly common in the pi community to (in effect) rip your hard drive (uSD card) out of one machine, stuff it in another and expect it to "just work" ... but this is *very unusual* on most systems, and I'm not at all surprised that this was not considered originally when defining the images
<meonkeys> ahhh... running Ubuntu on rasperry pis felt so much like a desktop I was ignoring the fact that it is SoC/embedded. Fascinating!
<pragmaticenigma> waveform: I think it was originally the idea... but raspberry pi foundation hasn't been able to move away from the binary blob that boots the Pi yet. That is still being controlled by broadcom (or whome ever is making their ARM cpus)
<waveform> however, given that things are actually a bit easier when we're having to maintain less images, and given that we've managed (almost) to get classic down to a couple of images (one armhf, one arm64) that effectively support all pis (that we support ... i.e. not the zero, but everything 2 and onwards), that's how we'd like to move core
<waveform> pragmaticenigma, indeed - we're still using the pi's bootloader (albeit supplemented by u-boot, which is the basis of the A/B boot mechanism on core). But then the pi's boot sequence is *very* odd (for starters, it's the GPU that basically controls it!)
<pragmaticenigma> that's what I was looking for waveform ... it isn't the arm cpu... but the gpu that has the binary blob/system os on it
<meonkeys> so an intel nuc... that's _not_ an SoC computer, it's a traditional motherboard computer with, uh, multiple chips, right?
<meonkeys> so I'm wondering why https://ubuntu.com/download/intel-nuc instructs me to get a core image for a particular NUC
<meonkeys> I'm just not getting what makes Core different than, say server or desktop 18.04 LTS in this case
<sarnold> ubuntu core uses snap as the only packaging mechanism
<sarnold> if you're looking for "traditional ubuntu system" then you do not want the ubuntu core download
<sarnold> if you're looking for a way to build kiosks or appliances or other iot-style devices, then ubuntu core may be a good fit
<meonkeys> sarnold: right, I'm trying to get a layer or two down and understand the salient differences
<waveform> meonkeys, on the core distro, until very recently, the definition of the machine (the "model assertion") could not be modified (which in turn meant that certain aspects of the boot sequence were "set in stone"); this is in contrast to the classic distro in which the package manager is free to modify pretty much anything it desires and install drivers for whatever you ask it to
<pragmaticenigma> intel nuc I think also have APUs in them, where the GPU and CPU are on the same processor. But I think NUCs are closer to being a traditional computer, where they can still run a traditional OS on them... not 100% sure on that
<meonkeys> gotcha. This is super helpful, thank you.
<waveform> meonkeys, sorry that's all a bit vague - core is something I'm still digging into (most of my work has been on the classic side so far), but that's (part of) my understanding of the reasons for core's current setup on the pi
<meonkeys> this is great, no worries
<meonkeys> I work on a team that has deployed the classic os (16.04 LTS) to hundreds of computers in operating rooms, gathering surgical videos to help surgeons improve. I'm investigating core as a more secure/stable alternative to classic for these on-premise computers.
<pragmaticenigma> meonkeys: My concern is RPi can do great video capture, but I don't think it works well for an extended period
<meonkeys> we use NUCs, not RPIs
<pragmaticenigma> I'm speaking to what sounds like a consideration of moving to RPi? or was that just in reference to the CPUs?
<meonkeys> ah, gotcha. Yeah, I was just trying to understand all the different builds for core since we don't see that for classic
<pragmaticenigma> ah, okay
 * pragmaticenigma missed some of the first part of the discussion
<meonkeys> ah, so raspian must be more like classic? I just noticed you could run for example "raspian buster lite" on any RPI
<pragmaticenigma> yes, raspian more in line with a traditional OS platform
<pragmaticenigma> both varients
<pragmaticenigma> lite just installs as a CLI only instance (no gui desktop)
<meonkeys> cool, ok
<tomreyn> !disco
<ubot5> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) is the 30th release of Ubuntu, supported until January 2020.  Release Notes: http://ubottu.com/y/dingo
<tomreyn> ^ outdated
<jeremy31> disco was a thing back in the 70's
<tomreyn> :)
<jeremy31> When everyone got tired of John Travolta, disco died
<ducasse> and then scientology got him
<jelly> what's the codename for 20.04?
<sarnold> Focal Fossa
<jeremy31> Frozen Fossils
<akemhp> F*st f*ck :P
<akemhp> I couldn't resist OFC, nm :)
<jelly> so focal for the repo, thanks
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-24
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<lotuspsychje> !19.04
<jeremy31> is almost dead
<lotuspsychje> yeah oerheks just mentioned :p
<oerheks> nein, nein, kein UnterstÃ¼tzung
<oerheks> :-D
<jeremy31> lets bow our heads for a moment of silence
<oerheks> *chop*
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> 1min silence for a dead non-lts release
<jeremy31> now we can return to the 20.04 pre release party
<lotuspsychje> im already partying on daily, having fun with daily xorg crashes
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: i can't help but wonder if you did a fresh install again and avoided what you might normally change or install, whether they'd go away :)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: good idea to test a recent daily, but still im getting alot of updates, hoping one that fixes at one point :p
<daftykins> but the break might be in your config, i'd be willing to bet those prerelease versions mess up so strongly that a good regular wipe is the only true way to test
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: some of the bug i encounter are happening on 19.10 too and tested on a live too
<daftykins> still
<lotuspsychje> the dock flicker fight with xscreensaver for example
<daftykins> well it sounded like you said it's just an ignored package
<tomreyn> yes, xscreensaver :-)
<daftykins> and screensavers are the 90s
<lotuspsychje> im puzzled at that bug, guiverc also tested it and also has it
<lotuspsychje> works like a charm on bionic
<lotuspsychje> and as long as the repos serve it, lotus gonna digest :p
<daftykins> what do you use it for, blanking the screens after a timeout or actually showing a ghetto screensaver? :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah matrix code after 1min
<daftykins> xD
<lotuspsychje> with the matrix 4 coming and all lol
<lotuspsychje> woe-usb snap only shows publisher, not contact
<daftykins> all snaps are woe ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pragmaticenigma> it wouldn't matter... if they can't read the documentation... they probably shouldn't be using it
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-25
<guiverc> :) @ bowing of heads for 19.04 jeremy31
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> after the server snaps promotion, now https://ubuntu.com/blog/looking-for-video-editing-software-the-snap-store-has-some-nice-apps-for-you
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-01-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<lotuspsychje> !info grab xenial
<ubot5> Package grab does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> nerdjones: we cant generalize snaps are bad easy
<lotuspsychje> there are alot of snaps, by different maintainers, and some have bugs, just like other packages
<lotuspsychje> its the users choice also to use snaps or not
<nerdjones> i think the conversation was more along the lines of snaps in general are not a good idea, i dont remember. what brought it back to me was i noticed that the software app has me downloading a lot of snaps and there are a lot of /dev/loops in blkid.
<Bashing-om> Keep in mind too that snaps depends on the use case; in IOT snaps are the thing; and "might" be useful on the desktop.
<Bashing-om> nerdjones: If one really has no desire for snaps, the tool can be removed ;)
<nerdjones> if it works i dont really see a problem with it, i was just a little alarmed by all the /dev/loops in blkid and there are also a lot of entrys in dmesg for chrome, but im not sure if thats snap related or just chrome being chrome, but it does make it harder to find info i have needed in the whole 2 hours ive been using ubuntu again
<Bashing-om> nerdjones: chromium has gone the snap way- and we (me) have parted ways.
<nerdjones> Bashing-om: because of the snap thing? are you anti-snap?
<Bashing-om> nerdjones: Not so much anti-snap as pro-apt on the desktop. Bear in mind I do have limited assets in this ole box :P
<nerdjones> its been years since ive used ubuntu but im already finding myself leaning more towards apt, just because i remember using it mostly, is there a way to convince the app store to use apt? or is it how the dev package thigns so i cant do much about it?
<Bashing-om> nerdjones: No experience withthe "app store" so cannot comment there. I have become conversant with the command line :P
<guiverc2> has Kubuntu switched to use calamares installer? (instead of ubiquity)
<marcoagpinto> Hello!
<marcoagpinto> Why isn't there an option to show the resolution of videos in the folders
<marcoagpinto> ?
<marcoagpinto> Windows 10 has that feature
<marcoagpinto> tested with 18.04
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: you mean the size of thumbnails in nautilus?
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: no, a tab showing 1280x720
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> guiverc2: ive read 20.04 made a revamp of ubiquity, is that what you mean?
<marcoagpinto> or the duration of the video
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: right mouse on the video/properties
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: wouldn't it be simpler to have a tab with resolution+duration?
<marcoagpinto> right-clicking in the folder tab should allow to select it
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: you could check around with dconf-editor on nautilus perhaps
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: and if you dont find any tweak, you can always propose a wichlist !bug
<lotuspsychje> *wishlist
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaa
<marcoagpinto> what is the bugzilla platform url?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> https://launchpad.net
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: bugs on ubuntu, always create with ubuntu-bug packagename
<marcoagpinto> found it
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: could you tell me in which part of launchpad should I create the ticket?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> sorry for bothering you
<lotuspsychje> scroll back to what i just said
<marcoagpinto> wishlist?
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> from a terminal: ubuntu-bug packagename
<marcoagpinto> but I am already in the site logged in
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> in your case ubuntu-bug nautilus if you want a wishlist for nautilus
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: when you use ubuntu-bug, relevant (system)info will add into your bug wich the devs will need, if you file it directly from launchpad, that info will be missing
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaa
<marcoagpinto> I want to file the wishlist using launchpad... but it is so hard to use
<lotuspsychje> please dont
<marcoagpinto> then: terminal -> ubuntu-bug nautilus ?
<lotuspsychje> if nautilus is the package you want a wish for yes
<marcoagpinto> let me try
<marcoagpinto> "send problem report to developers"?
<marcoagpinto> it allows a yes or no
<marcoagpinto> but, where can I write the wishlist?
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: first you need to proceed with the normal bug procedure, after that you can ask an admin/dev to convert it to a wishlist
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: after choosing yes, browser will jump open to add a bug title + description
<marcoagpinto> yes, I am already there
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1860899
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1860899 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Add extra information to tabs in folders" [Undecided,New]
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> are you an administrator?
<marcoagpinto> :p
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: in a few hours, please ping hggdh and ask gently if he wants to convert your bug to a wish
<marcoagpinto> ahhh
<marcoagpinto> oki
<marcoagpinto> thanks
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> !19.04 is <reply> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) is the 30th release of Ubuntu, supported ended January 2020. see !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2020-January/005263.html
<lotuspsychje> !19.04 is <reply> Ubuntu 19.04 (Disco Dingo) was the 30th release of Ubuntu, supported ended January 2020. see !eol and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2020-January/005263.html
<guiverc2> sorry lotuspsychje , nah.  Kubuntu uses ubiquity with a 'kde_ui' skin that looks like calamares... (i disappeared out for dinner, somewhere someone was asking kubuntu support question sending me pic of screen; I was wondering if kde neon that uses calamares.. it was legit though..)
<guiverc2> thanks for reply lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> guiverc2: aha, no kde experiences myself here, maybe blueskaj or RikMills might know that
<guiverc2> no need; I don't remember whatever it was, but it was legit & I gave whatever I could..
<lotuspsychje> kk
<marcoagpinto> [08:40] <lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: in a few hours, please ping hggdh and ask gently if he wants to convert your bug to a wish
<marcoagpinto> hggdh: Ping?
<marcoagpinto> [12:48] <marcoagpinto> hggdh: Ping?
<marcoagpinto> guys?! Is "Kingston" a good brand for MicroSD Cards for mobile phones?
<marcoagpinto> The Pakistani didn't have SanDisk
<marcoagpinto> :(
<SwedeMike> marcoagpinto: yes.
<SwedeMike> it's a well known brand
<marcoagpinto> ahhhhhh
<marcoagpinto> thanks
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I ordered a Sandisk and two readers USB from Amazon UK but they lost my package and returned the $$$
<marcoagpinto> so, I had to ask dad to buy it here in Portugal
<marcoagpinto> but the store across the street doesn't have SanDisk
<pizzaiolo> o/
<marcoagpinto> hey hey
<marcoagpinto> pizzaiolo!
<marcoagpinto> >:) <- cola demon
<daftykins> as long as they're not fakes
<marcoagpinto> what?!
<marcoagpinto> that is what I told dad
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> "the pakistani stores probably sell fakes"
<marcoagpinto> :(
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: How do I know it is real?
<daftykins> please stop referring to shop staff by race, it's really not pleasant
<daftykins> or nationality rather
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> oki
<marcoagpinto> sorry
<marcoagpinto> how do you call chinese stores?
<daftykins> ...
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: The problem is that in Portugal we are loaded with Chinese and Pakistani stores... so, one says: "I am going to the Chinese to buy blah blah"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<daftykins> i would hope that's not common practice
<marcoagpinto> it is common practice
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> at least here
<marcoagpinto> Even in Portuguese Mozambique where I was born there was Chinese stores :)
<marcoagpinto> back in the 1970s and earlier
<daftykins> what i mean is i doubt everyone else goes around referring to them as such
<marcoagpinto> in Portugal it is common practice
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> daftykins: How do I tell if the SD Card is real?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<daftykins> look it up
<marcoagpinto> how?
<marcoagpinto> it is inside a box just like the ones in the supermarket
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> a case with lines to cut with scissors
<daftykins> rumour has it there's a free resource of interconnected computers that allows you to look things up
<marcoagpinto> what?
<tomreyn> lapion: i probably don't know more than you do, canonical is pushing more and more for snaps overall.
<lapion> But don't snaps use extra ram to just merge the snap fs into the regluar fs ?
<tomreyn> lapion: it feels to me (and others) that there is an intention to replace deb in the medium / long term
<tomreyn> no, i don't think so
<tomreyn> but for technical details you'd better askin #snapcraft probably since most people aroun dhere don't want to support snaps
<lapion> Don't snaps incur a performance penalty
<tomreyn> i have no benchmarks
<oerheks> my bet is that they gain performance
<oerheks> performance, security ( confinement), updates independent from apt
<daftykins> they'd only be more secure if the developer/'snapper' is regularly keeping all components inside current
<lapion> They will surely use more ram and the system has to go through 2 layers of filesystems..
<lapion> And a snap will use more storage space
<daftykins> don't get me wrong i despise them and always purge snapd, but those are very weak arguments
<oerheks> what is the difference, a few kb?
<oerheks> try to roll back an apt package .. or remove a dependency. snap will work.
<JanC> the difference between an application in a snap/flatpak vs. one installed with APT is more like several 100s of MBs usually
<marcoagpinto> "dream on, dream on, dream on until your dreams come true" >:)
<jeremy31> You don't always get what you want, if you try real hard you might get what you need
<oerheks> if you need it, it will on your path. you certainly do not need all that comes on your path.
<oerheks> c/ will be
<marcoagpinto> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_kqUxPAGYI <- "Dream on"
<marcoagpinto> a Dio song, very good
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh... one hour for my birthday
