#launchpad 2004-11-22
<stub> BradB: The existing vocabulary tests should show you what is needed.
<stub> Urgh - which I can't find any more. I could have sworn there were some there :-(
<stub> And the work I did splitting up the Launchpad harness into standalone setUp and tearDown methods never landed.
<BradB> It'll be worth deploying a new dogfood once I land this bug-id-in-subject-line-on-add patch
<stub> BradB: Yup
* BradB waits while make check runs
<stub> harness.LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase is supposed to setup the database and all the Z3 infrastructure for functional tests (although Carlos was going to land a patch last night I think because I forgot to actually call the superclasses setup/teardown).
<BradB> stub: I know. The problem is, this isn't a functional test.
<BradB> A functional test is like "add a bug".
<BradB> I wanna test one teeny little thing, that just happens to grab some data from the outside world.
<stub> Yup. I moved the pgsql.py harness into ftests because SteveA seemed to be saying it was a functional test because it hit the database, but I think you are right and it should stay in the Unit test area.
<BradB> stub: SteveA, daf and I had this argume^Wdiscussion in London. :P
<stub> I think pureist thinging says you need a stub implementation of the database, but in our environment SQLObject are just another provided datatype that we should be treating like dictionaries.
<BradB> stub: My major concern there is that stub implementations are a Real World Nightmare to work with.
<BradB> The rely on knowing the *implementation* of the code your testing, which is masochistic.
<stub> Hey - I think I personally caused the stub implemenations in soyuz and rosetta to be dropped because I never bothered with it in Malone and it worked dammit ;)
<BradB> heh
<BradB> I built the world's most solid credit card payment processing on the same philosophy (i.e. test stubs usually suck)
<BradB> s/processing/processing system/ # okay, there might be one or two better
<BradB> daf: I'm now just waiting on tla as I land the bug id fix. Can we expect dilys's malone notifications to be working tomorrow?
* BradB tells tla to fogo na bomba
* stub wonders if he should attempt upgrading to Hoary
<BradB> stub: what's the status of airport cards being supported in linux?
<BradB> i want to install ubuntu on my other powerbook (the 15" 867 MHz), and see if it'll run faster than this 1.5 GHz one.
<stub> I have no idea. I'm not on a mac any more so haven't been following.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: add bug id to subject line in bug add emails. cleanup bug add machinery and remove some dead chickens. (patch-764)
<BradB> stub: anytime you want to rollout a new dogfood, go ahead.
<stub> Oohh..... from z3-users
<stub> No, but in order for them to work well, the have to be ILocations; you can put  a proxy around the values before returning them using  zope.app.location.locate(object, parent, name).
<stub> Might be possible to hack that into our publisher method and make everything that is traversable to locatable
<BradB> that's what i was saying though :)
<BradB> we need locations
<BradB> the way it is now is screwed up. bugcontainers contain bugs, but bugs don't know that they're in bugcontainers.
<stub> Mmm.... it might be trivial to switch it on though - I suspect it involves changing a single method. I might give it a try ;)
<stub> BradB: I spoke too soon last night about the bug watches. Our internal bugzilla is setup so you need to be logged in before you can see a bug. I suspect we need to extend the BugTracker table to contain a username and password, and refactor the checkwatches.py script to goto that tracker types login form, login, and maintain the auth information when it then checks the bugs on that external tracker. Which is annoying because we proba
<stub> Hmm... maybe I could just hardcode auth information in there for our internal one...
<BradB> watches in general will need to support the possibility that logging in to the remote system could be required
<BradB> is the intent for dogfooding that we'll be watching dogfood bugs that were already reported in bugzilla? (i.e. before i got jdub to make that impossible)
<BradB> ...until they're migrated in a week or two.
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.0: Making test-dir-regexps.sh posixly correct (patch-64)
<BradB|afk> stub: so will there be a new dogfood by the time Canada wakes up tomorrow?
<stub> BradB|afk: yup
<BradB|afk> sweet
<stub> It is pretty trivial for me to rollout now and difficult to screw up.
<BradB|afk> cool
<stub> SteveA: ping
<daf> BradB|away: sure, as long as I have some sample emails to work with
<stub> daf: At this stage, I think we just want to report the subject line of emails that have an errors-to: set to bounces@canonical.com - that should be future proof while we tweak the templates.
<Kinnison> Morning
<Kinnison> lulu!
* Kinnison dances
<lulu> morning :o)
<Kinnison> Morning sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hiya
<sabdfl> stub: how did that popup page selector work out?
<sabdfl> hiya BradB|away
<stub> sabdfl: Partially done. I think it will be running by the end of tomorrow.
<stub> Itegrates happily as a standard widget, and the popup is working. I just have to have the popup contain content and the javascript to push the value back to the form.
<sabdfl> Kinnison: what's been the focus since you got archives published?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: "The focus" ?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: gina-wise, the dogfood server and hoary
<Kinnison> sabdfl: lucille-wise, getting a pile of unit-tests done for all the publishing stuff and then the domination and unpublishing stuff
<sabdfl> ok
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I have been prioritising dogfood over lucille recently; although that has receeded into nearly no time now
<Kinnison> So apart from periodic dogfood related sidelines; I'm back to lucille full-time
<sabdfl> do you think the spanish inquistion will need to roast your tosies to get derivative distros working before christmas?
<sabdfl> ok
<Kinnison> my toesies?! eep!
* Kinnison doesn't want his toes roasted; that's fer sure
<Kinnison> Hopefully wednesday next week will leave me pretty much clear to get single-distro working nicely
<Kinnison> Derivative distros needs all the policy stuff assuming we're not faking it
<sabdfl> right
<Kinnison> Hopefully we'll get a chance to discuss some of that next week
<sabdfl> yes
<Kinnison> Cool
<sabdfl> we'll start as simple as possible
<sabdfl> germinate-style
<Kinnison> Do you want me to try and come up with an agenda for wednesday?
<sabdfl> just a list of packages to be included
<sabdfl> good idea to have an agenda
<BradB> morning
<Kinnison> brad.
<sabdfl> mornin' bradb
<sabdfl> nice cleanup work in malone btw on the bug add forms etc
<BradB> thanks
<BradB> dilys integration should be a real possibility today. i'm sure we'll end up reformatting the notification emails at some point, but they provide everything dilys needs now.
<sabdfl> awesome
<sabdfl> i think we should make the product / package selection compulsory for new bugs
<BradB> ok
<sabdfl> given the Packaging table which links product and package, we should be able to make it quick
<BradB> what do you mean "make it quick"? make it quick to figure out if the selected a package or product?
<BradB> s,the,they,
<ddaa> spiv: can I disable globally the stderr proxy twistd puts in place?
<spiv> ddaa: hmm
<ddaa> I suspect it's what causes the gdb stuff to segfaults
<ddaa> I successfully got the gdb macros to run on a dummy python script.
<sabdfl> BradB: selecting a package should immediately preselect the relevant product
<spiv> ddaa: there's no option in twistd to do it... 
<spiv> ddaa: it's a hack, but the simplest way would be to edit the startLoggingWithObserver function in twisted/python/log.py
<spiv> Changing the default value of setStdout should be sufficient.
<BradB> sabdfl: ah. IOW, /both/ are required.
<ddaa> spiv: well, then when is it done? I am happy if I can just add a bit of client code to restore sys.stderr out of sys.__stderr__ at some point.
<spiv> (that flag affects sterr too)
<spiv> ddaa: Well, it's done before running the tap/tac.
<spiv> So I suspect you could sort it out in buildbot's master.cfg thing.
<sabdfl> i'm not sure we can require both, since we can't be certain that the product entry has been created
<sabdfl> also, the bug might not exist upstream
<ddaa> spiv: I'm interested in doing that in the slave.
<sabdfl> for example, if it's purely a packaging bug
<sabdfl> then it only exists in the package, not upstream
<BradB> sabdfl: is it worth auto-selecting the product then? i would have thought it'd be common that the bug reporter would have no idea if the bug exists upstream.
<spiv> ddaa: I suppose you could do it with something that does "reactor.addSystemEventTrigger('before', 'startup', setattr, sys, 'stderr', sys.__stderr__)"
<BradB> sabdfl: stub was saying that maybe there was a specific reason that we don't want the product selection widget on the bug add form too. i think he was saying that it would confuse users (i.e. it's probably enough for us to leave it to the package maintainer to decide if a product assignment is warranted.)
<spiv> ddaa: Personally, I'd just edit log.py ;)
* ddaa looks at spiv with blank stare
<sabdfl> hmm... good idea
<spiv> ddaa: I don't know the slave code well enough to know where a good spot to put that call would be, hence my slightly vague advice.
* ddaa follows spiv advice
<BradB> sabdfl: ok, i'll remove it today.
<sabdfl> i think it would also be possible to add a bug directly to a product, which creates the bug, and a bug-product-assignment
<sabdfl> remember, we want to be able to use malone for pure-upstream projects too
<BradB> sabdfl: that's technically how we should be assigning bugs to malone.
<sabdfl> yes
<BradB> maybe two add forms? i'm not sure...
<sabdfl> go to the product, then "file bug"
<sabdfl> i'll have a stab at that
<sabdfl> now
<BradB> ok
<Kinnison> owwwie! unittests hurt my fingers
<sabdfl> what are the semantics of page test creation now?
<ddaa> spiv: your suggestion does not seem to work terribly well...
<BradB> sabdfl: each dir in pagetests is a "story"
<BradB> sabdfl: for each "story", a fresh db is created.
<BradB> ./makepagetest {xx,nn} some cool test
<BradB> xx if it's stand-alone, nn if it depends on the previous test.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix zopeless bug for Carlos (patch-765)
<BradB> that puts the test in pagetests/, then you move it to the appropriate story and elide all the crap not related to what you're testing.
<sabdfl> right
<spiv> ddaa: Hmm :/
<BradB> sabdfl: i /think/ that it's appropriate for each app to be a story. i started that malone dir, because standalone was starting to get a bit overwhelming. we might want to gradually make standalone/ go away (and the tests therein be moved to malone/ soyuz/ rosetta/ and launchpad/)
<sabdfl> so creation is unchanged, just move them to a story afterwards?
<ddaa> progress... I added the sys.stdout/stderr restauration hack at some essentially random place, and now it segfauts just a bit later
<ddaa> mh... well, no... actually, just at the same place :-(
<ddaa> hehe... that was the "print local variables" that screwed at some point :-)
<ddaa> Here it goes.
<BradB> sabdfl: correct (sorry, wasn't paying attention to this window for a while)
<ddaa> Hehe! Not even needing gdb actually...
<ddaa> I got a familiar "interrupted system call" from within cscvs
<ddaa> at a point where I used to have an occasional hanf
<sabdfl> BradB: any reason why the page test creation is not recording a POST?
<BradB> sabdfl: that should work fine...you're posting on port 9000?
<sabdfl> thought i did
<sabdfl> just tried again and it seems to have got it
<BradB> ok
<sabdfl> BradB: i think we need a datecreated on the bugassignment tables
<sabdfl> so we can see a list of the bugs assigned to a product, in order of assignment
<sabdfl> or a list of the x latest bugs assigned
<sabdfl> mind if i go ahead and create that?
<BradB> we don't yet have that? yes, please feel free to create them. :)
<BradB> sabdfl: while you're at it...do we want to add a "note" to assignments and infestations? mdz mentioned something about wanting this.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> could be tricky to display though
<BradB> we could elide it as necessary "blah blah blah..."
<sabdfl> can I sort() a list descending?
<BradB> foo.sort(lambda a, b: cmp(b, a))
<sabdfl> wow, that's immediately obvious, innit
<sabdfl> thanks :-)
<BradB> no prob :)
<spiv> "foo.sort(); foo.reverse()" works well as well :)
<BradB> slower though
<spiv> BradB: Actually, no.
<BradB> oh, because it's all done in C?
<spiv> BradB: The cost of doing n log n python function calls tends to strongly outweigh the cost of reversing the list in C :)
<BradB> indeed, indeed.
<BradB> looks like 2.4 will make this operation even faster with reverse iteration
<spiv> Yeah.  And also with supporting a keyfunc to sort.
<spiv> So you could do "foo.sort(keyfunc=operator.neg)"
<spiv> Too many ways to do it ;)
<BradB> heh
<lulu> night all :o)
<BradB> daf: ping
<daf> BradB: pong
<BradB> daf: do you have enough info now to get dilys going with malone?
<daf> I'm working on it as we speak
<BradB> awesome
<BradB> daf: will we be able to also see who submitted a bug? (i just realized that there's no way to see who made a *change* currently, be at least we know who submitted a bug.)
<BradB> s/be at/but at/
<daf> if you want to :)
<daf> actually, I don't see that information in the report
<BradB> Submitted By:
<BradB> daf: yes, it's useful to know who submitted that. then we can jump into conversation with that person on IRC, knowing who just submitted it.
<daf> ah, in the headers
<BradB> actually, it's currently Owner:, but I made a little fix so that when the next version is rolled out it'll be Submitted By:
<BradB> no, in the add mail itself
<daf> oh, *right*
<BradB> :)
<daf> cool
<daf> where's Malone, by the way?
<BradB> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone
<BradB> a bug is at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/$bugnumber
<daf> ta
<daf> and what's my password? :)
<BradB> i dunno, you tell me :)
<BradB> it's whatever it is in ubuntulinux.org
<BradB> it's just a dump from production.
<daf> ah
* daf tries to remember if he has an accoutn
<BradB> yep, you do
* daf wonders what the password is
<BradB> there's a forgotten password link, that hopefully works correctly on dogfood. you could give it a shot and see what happens.
<daf> where is it?
<BradB> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/ubuntulinux/forgottenpassword
<BradB> you see it from going here: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/
<daf> ahh
<daf> "Your account details have not been found." :-/
<BradB> daf: you were using the wrong email address. it's dafydd.harries@canonical.com. you've got mail.
<daf> heh
<daf> I also have an account at daf@muse.19inch.net, apparently
<BradB> yes
<daf> the forgotten password thing works
<BradB> woo
<daf> but it has an incorrect link in the email
<BradB> can you file a bug for that and assign it to debonzi?
<daf> well, the link is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/forgottenpassword/...
<daf> and it should be https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/...
<daf> does the code have some way of knowing the correct prefix?
<BradB> it should have a way. perhaps it wasn't implemented.
<BradB> did you confirm that it's actually correctly resetting the p/w and allowing you to login to dogfood/
<daf> yes
<daf> also, it redirected me to http://canonical.com after I'd reset my password :)
<BradB> heh
<BradB> that's something debonzi and steve worked on, so the bug should probably be assigned to debonzi
<BradB> debonzi!
<BradB> daf has a bug for you
<BradB> in forgottenpassword
<daf> I'll file it in a second
<BradB> thanks
<debonzi> BradB, daf.. right.. just do it :)
<BradB> heh
<daf> grrrr
<daf> summaries
<debonzi> daf, Im going for dinner and Ill take I look on it latter.. see you all
<daf> debonzi: sure
<debonzi> :)
<dilys> New Malone bug #39: forgottenpassword email has incorrect link
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/39
<BradB> (submitted by Dafydd Harries)
<BradB> ;P
<daf> :)
<daf> well, I guess I could parse "Owner: ..." for now
<daf> how's this:
<dilys> New Malone bug #39: "forgottenpassword email has incorrect link", submitted by Dafydd Harries
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/39
<daf> ?
<BradB> sure. if other #launchpad'ers don't like it, they'll let us know :)
<daf> true :)
<sabdfl> hi all
<sabdfl> dilys!
<sabdfl> nie
<sabdfl> c
<sabdfl> good work daf
<sabdfl> & bradb
<BradB> thanks
<daf> sabdfl: thanks
<SteveA> I have cookie login working nicely in my tree.  I need to do something about pagetests before I merge though, otherwise we'll end up with a bit of a mess.
<BradB> what kind of mess?
<sabdfl> hopefully you can't merge a mess ;-)
<BradB> exactly :)
<daf> BradB: I think you can close #33 now
<SteveA> I could make it merge, by cleaning up the current mess with a hack.  but there would be difficulties when creating new pagetests.
<BradB> SteveA: because of expirations?
<daf> SteveA: doesn't the basicauth still work?
<sabdfl> SteveA: the layers work a *treat*
<SteveA> BradB: no, because of authentication.  although basic auth still works, when you create new pagetests, there will be cookie headers that need eliding.
<SteveA> sabdfl: cool
<BradB> SteveA: we elide a lot of stuff anyway. i don't see the problem.
<SteveA> there's a limitation in the session/cookie api 
<SteveA> you can't see if there is a current session without making a current session
<SteveA> BradB: I really like that you can create a pagetest, and immediately run it again.  it would be a shame to lose that.  Then again, it might encourage more elision ;-)
<BradB> SteveA: we've already agreed (sabdfl and I, and I think others) that we elide a ton of stuff. we've never been able to record-and-run anyway.
<BradB> e.g. you have to elide AuthorizationError's, dates, Content-Length, etc. anyway
* sabdfl wonders if it's worth climbing on the "elide everything but one specific page feature" soapbox again
* sabdfl decides everyone's heard that message already :-)
<sabdfl> what's the tal foo to give you assignee/browsername OR "No assignee" ?
<SteveA> in implementing this stuff, I've found a number of bugs I need to file on zope3
<SteveA>  |
<BradB> SteveA: cool
<SteveA>   tal:content="context/whatever | default"
<sabdfl> default being?
<SteveA>   <p tal:content="context/whatever|default">The default</p>
<SteveA> or,
<sabdfl> ah
<SteveA>   <p tal:content="context/whatever|string:The default">This is always removed</p>
<sabdfl> nice
<BradB> SteveA: I'm looking forward to the bug of not ignoring elisions in diffs output to be fixed, because it's a major pain to do a lot of eliding until that's fixed. Also the broken <BLANKLINE> elisions needs to be fixed.
<SteveA> you can actually string a load of "|"s together
<sabdfl> first one that works matches?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> BradB: noted :-)
<SteveA> Zope3 keeps its own copy of the relevant libs, so we can change them there
<SteveA> easier than changing them in the python libs
<SteveA> although, we might be able to get such bugs fixed in python before 2.4 final
<sabdfl> is it possible to use the same addform with different contexts, and do some different post-processing?
<sabdfl> for example
<sabdfl> i want to "add a bug to a product"
<sabdfl> actually, all I want to do is add the bug
<BradB> sabdfl: make a new schema for that.
<BradB> i think you can:
<sabdfl> then after adding it, i want to add the productassignment
<BradB> 1. create a base schema common to both add forms (bug + package and bug + product)
<BradB> 2. inherit and create a schema for bug + package.
<sabdfl> base schema should just be IBug
<BradB> 3. do the same for bug + product.
<sabdfl> factory should just be Bug
<BradB> sabdfl: no, it's a schema for rendering a form to add a package.
<sabdfl> you can use the full IBug schema, then restrict the elements using...
<sabdfl> fields
<BradB> sabdfl: schemas are, among other things, there to help zope render forms for you. IBug doesn't include product or package.
<sabdfl> i don't want product or package
<BradB> oh, ok
<sabdfl> the use case is:
<sabdfl> navigate to the product or package in doap or soyuz
<sabdfl> then click on "file a new bug for this product/package"
<sabdfl> now all i need is fields from the bug
<sabdfl> create the bug
<sabdfl> *then* create the product/package bugassignment
<BradB> you just need to configure two addforms then, i think. one hanging off product, one off package.
<BradB> what we've got now is hanging off BugContainer.
<BradB> er, but hrm, that might not work.
<sabdfl> btw, i've created a Title field
<sabdfl> and it automatically gets a nice widget
<sabdfl> no need for the displayWidth stuff
<BradB> i thought the displayWidth stuff was a feature :)
<sabdfl> Title and Summary
<BradB> not all titles will want to be the same width.
<sabdfl> it's a feature i didn't know about so I subclassed TextLine :-)
<sabdfl> it was fun
<BradB> we just needed a top-level browser:widget, rather than only a subdirective.
<BradB> but anyway, hm
<sabdfl> the idea is that we can have consistent validation rules for a Name, a Title, a Summary (ShortDesc) etc
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> i'm just learning here
<BradB> i too would have to play around a bit to figure out the best way to do what you're wanting to do with products/packages + filing bugs. maybe SteveA has a more immediate solution.
<sabdfl> i think it's under control
<sabdfl> well... there are two ways I can think
<sabdfl> will let you know what i come up with
<BradB> cool
<BradB> sabdfl: got a moment to discuss how to provide a useful bug listing, that more clearly shows the user what stuff they need to fix? (or to get someone else to fix :) i think i have an idea.
<sabdfl> ok fire away
<BradB> sabdfl: ok, so here's the thing:
<BradB> we need one screen in malone where i can go to find out what bugs i need to fix.
<BradB> in malone, bugs are assigned to packages or products and infest specific versions of products and packages (to which they may or may not be assigned)
<BradB> assignments talk about work needing to be done. infestations just describe the way in which a bug affects a particular version of a thing.
<sabdfl> yes
<BradB> so, for our main bug listing ("Outstanding Bugs" or something) we can totally ignore infestations.
<sabdfl> yes
<BradB> we need to show that somewhere, but on a different screen
<sabdfl> though we do need to think a little about the connection between infestation and assignment
<BradB> sabdfl: there isn't always one.
<sabdfl> yes
<BradB> sabdfl: for products and packages that have infestations, we can provide some kind of link or whatever, but that's the easy part.
<sabdfl> right
<BradB> so, we show the Outstanding Bugs table with all the columns, including a "package" column, and a "product" column, one of which will be populated in each row.
<BradB> and by "all the columns" i mean things like severity, priority, assignee, etc, of course.
<sabdfl> so it's really "outstanding bug assignments"
<BradB> mm...kind of. i thought "outstanding bugs" made it more clear, but...
<BradB> assignments is a bit of jargon we may not want to include in the title of that page.
<sabdfl> this is one area where i've been tempted by postgres inheritance
<sabdfl> yes
<BradB> sabdfl: a guy i used to work with in quebec city is the guy who implemented inheritance in sqlobject. :)
<BradB> but anyway, does that seem about right?
<BradB> (there's still some issues though, but i think they come down to validation really, rather than altering the fundamental view i have in mind of how this interface should present info)
<sabdfl> yes it does
<sabdfl> hold on a sec
<BradB> ...
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> just checked my implementation of the assignment report
<sabdfl> i was trying to focus on the bug itself
<sabdfl> but i can see the point of including the assignment info
<BradB> the issues i'm referring to are, e.g. what if there's an infestation saying "affected", but the bug isn't assigned to the corresponding package? things like that. i think we can work that out though, because an infestation is, afterall, not a statement of work.
<sabdfl> that's what i was saying above
<sabdfl> we are going to have to polish off quite a lot of that stuff
<sabdfl> figuring out usability
<BradB> yes
<sabdfl> people will take time to understand the model
<BradB> yes
<sabdfl> they will assume that saying "this version has the bug" is the same as saying "please fix it!"
<BradB> yes, they may indeed
<sabdfl> so the "add an infestation" should default to adding an assignment too, say, with a checkbox, that can be removed
<sabdfl> perhaps if you set "victimised" as the infestation then the assignment is by default not created
<sabdfl> these are polish items
<BradB> yes, i was just about to mention that...
<BradB> i'll focus on coming up with a better listing first off, in any case.
<sabdfl> do you want me to revamp the bugs assigned report?
<BradB> sabdfl: i think it'll be folded into the Outstanding Bugs page.
<BradB> e.g. one field on which you can search will be assignee
<BradB> and, by default, it may show all the bugs you've been assigned. or not, but either way, another screen won't be needed, i don't think, once this works right.
<BradB> nor will the screen i created, for the bugs submitted by
<BradB> i would expect that too to be a field i can search on
<sabdfl> where is the outstanding bugs page?
<BradB> It's what the "Bugs" page is now becoming.
<BradB> er, hm, it shouldn't be called "Outstanding Bugs", I guess
<BradB> that's just what the default params will retrieve
<BradB> sabdfl: random though: yeah, a checkbox on an infestation like "[]  notify the maintainer of this package" should make the user's life much easier. it would then create the assignment, if needed.
<BradB> s/though/thought/
<sabdfl> yes
<debonzi> daf, did you file the bug for me?
<BradB> sabdfl: i'll proceed with modifying the listing then first, to bring it inline with what we've just discussed.
<daf> debonzi: yeah
<sabdfl> ok
<BradB> thanks for the feedback
<daf> debonzi: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/39
<debonzi> daf, ohh right.. I was looking for it in the launchpad package :)
<daf> debonzi: doh, mea culpa
<debonzi> daf, one question about that bug..
<daf> yes?
<debonzi> the url is www.ubuntu.org because AFAIK it is been used in the ubuntulinux site.
<daf> the same one?
<debonzi> I beliave soo..
<daf> I mean, the same one for launchpad and for ubuntu
<daf> ah, hmm
<debonzi> SteveA did it.. He nows better than me how it is been used..
<debonzi> you can even see that I changed the styleshee for forgottenpassword to be the same as www.ubuntulinux.org
<daf> yeah
<daf> well, perhaps we should get SteveA to look at it tomorrow
<debonzi> daf, I belive so
<debonzi> If he says it is ok too change, its just one line :)
<debonzi> s/too/to
<daf> perhaps we can use the magic context things he was talking about to fix it
<debonzi> daf, yes.. sounds good
<debonzi> daf, do you know about this magic context ?
<daf> debonzi: nope :)
<debonzi> daf, ok.. I ll take a look :)
<debonzi> daf, request.get("HTTP_REFERER", "") gives me http://localhost:8086/ ... What do you think?
<daf> debonzi: that's because of the Apache proxy
<debonzi> daf, I mean... do you think I can use it to compose the email ?
<daf> debonzi: hmm, I don't think that's reliable
<daf> debonzi: it's not important -- I suggest we just ask SteveA when we see him
<debonzi> daf, fine.. lets do that way
<daf> thanks for taking a look
<debonzi> daf, welcome
<sabdfl> BradB|afk: close to keyboard?
#launchpad 2004-11-23
<sabdfl> night all
<BradB|afk> sabdfl: hi, back for a bit, if you're still around.
<sabdfl> got it working
<sabdfl> created a ProductFileBugView
<BradB|afk> sweet...what'd you do?
<sabdfl> which as a createAndAdd method
<sabdfl> which pulls out the form data and creates the bug, then creates the BugAssignment
<sabdfl> can't commit it yet because it needs the datecreated field approved by stub
<sabdfl> have emailed him, so it will likely be committed tomorrow
<sabdfl> i think i could generalise this and have the same view class used for package as well as product bugs
<BradB|afk> we've already got a view that does that.
<BradB|afk> also, it's important that the person who added it is subscribed, which the existing factory already does.
<BradB|afk> (BugFactory)
<BradB|afk> it's a content factory actually
<BradB|afk> and it works for both packages and products, whichever is provided.
<BradB|afk> createAndAdd is just a method in the base AddView that ends up calling the factory
<BradB|afk> ok, gotta really be away now, catch ya later
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: datecreated on ProductBugAssignment and SourcePackageBugAssignment for Mark (patch-766)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Bounty comments (patch-767)
<daf> elmo: is there an easy way with GPG to print a summary of a key I have in a file?
<daf> elmo: (without importing it)
<bob2> gpg --keyring foo.gpg --list-keys
<daf> > gpg --no-default-keyring --keyring key.gpg --list-keys
<daf> gpg: keyring `/home/daf/.gnupg/key.gpg' created
<daf> bob2: tried that already :)
<bob2> hrm, I did something like that to see the buildbot keys
<daf> hmm:
<daf> > gpg --no-default-keyring --keyring ./key.gpg --list-keys
<daf> gpg: [don't know] : invalid packet (ctb=2d)
<daf> gpg: keydb_search_first failed: invalid packet
<daf> maybe 'cause the file is ascii-armoured or something
<dilys> New Malone bug #40: "Batching module needs refactoring", submitted by Stuart Bishop
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/40
<sabdfl> lifeless: ping?
<sabdfl> stub: do you think we can set test_on_merge to run the page tests first, and if they work, then to go on and run the functional tests?
<sabdfl> i'm trying to get my 30 second test runs back :-)
<stub> Buy a faster laptop? ;)
<stub> There is no reason we can't do it like that.
<stub> I personally just run test.py directly ('python test.py test_pages' should do what you want)
<sabdfl> can we make it a separate makefile target?
<sabdfl> make pagetests?
<stub> Sure
<stub> My 'we' do you mean 'me', or you just looking for feedback?
<sabdfl> good point, i'll do it, what i know about Makefiles approximates zero though :-)
<stub> Just remember that Makefiles require real tabs. I'm happy to put it in if you want - it is two lines
<sabdfl> got it, thanks!
<sabdfl> really wasn't that hard :-)
<sabdfl> but the real tab thing would have stumped me if vim hadn't Just Worked.
<stub> So simple even management can do it ;)
<sabdfl> har
<sabdfl> "baz - the revision control system so simple even your boss could use it"
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix archivelocation instantiation bug. (patch-768)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: bounty cleanup, add bugs directly to products, show bugs for a product (patch-769)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: Fix taxi up. (patch-66)
<stub> Anyone got any tips for updating previously working page tests to cope with changes? That diff output is monstrous.
<sabdfl> stub: that's why i've been banging the "elide everything except one tiny feature per page" drum
<stub> It is the elisions that are causing me grief in this case - the diff output doesn't know how to handle them so the entire output is different. Makes finding the bits that need changing a problem :-(
<stub> Need a more intelligent diff
<stub> Ohh... I think I can fix it.
<SteveA> stub: yeah, we need to make pagetest diffs understand <BLANKSPACE> and ...
<stub> Can '...' appear anywhere, or just on a blank line?
<SteveA> it should be able to appear anywhere
<SteveA> for example, to demonstrate that a particular header exists, but you don't care about the value
<sabdfl> is there any good way to know the len() of a resultset?
<sabdfl> or even just whether or not it actually contains a result?
<sabdfl> spiv: around?
<SteveA> does len() on it work?  If not, I think it has a count() method or something like that
<sabdfl> Kinnison: morning
<sabdfl> hi doko
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Good morning
* Kinnison recommends not falling asleep on your mobile phone
<Kinnison> it makes hearing the alarm a might difficult :-(
<sabdfl> wondered what had happened to you :-)
* Kinnison can only apologise and get-on :-)
<sabdfl> at least you should have enough rest to smack the domination bits into order :-)
<Kinnison> Well; it's certainly time to write more unit-tests
* Kinnison skims ubuntu-users while his machines come up to speed; sync rocketfuel etc
<sabdfl> bummer. can't access count from the page template
<sabdfl> SteveA: any other suggestions?
<doko> hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> hiya doko
<sabdfl> doko: see my mails?
<doko> yes, thanks, will answer tonight. one mail yes, any more mails?
<sabdfl> hmm... thought there was one yesterday, one today
<sabdfl> SteveA: can i tal:define something as false, then, iterate of the resultset, and during the iteration, redefine that as true?
<sabdfl> how do i tal:define something as false?
<sabdfl> or true for that matter?
<SteveA> you can tal define things to any python value using tal:define="foo python:False"
<SteveA> but, that sounds like a case of programming in a page template
<SteveA> maybe this logic can be moved to the view's class?
<stub> tal:define="foo nothing"
<stub> tal:define="foo string:whatever" for true, or tal:define="foo string:" for false as well
<SteveA> sabdfl: it is a bug in sqlos.  sqlos things that ISelectResults has a __len__, but it does not.  it has a count()
<SteveA> to work around, add this in some zcml file somewhere:
<SteveA>   <class class="sqlobject.main.SelectResults">
<SteveA>     <require permission="zope.Public" attributes="count" />
<SteveA>   </class>
<SteveA> add a comment saying "XXX: working around bug in sqlos.  remove when fixed upstream." and a suitable name and date :-)
<Kinnison> python question:
<Kinnison> from foo import bar as wibble
<Kinnison> is that correct?
<SteveA> if that's what you want
<Kinnison> I think it is
<SteveA> it is syntactically correct
<Kinnison> cool
<Kinnison> from canonical.sourcerer.deb.version import Version as DebianVersion
<Kinnison> is what I want to say
<Kinnison> to get 'DebianVersion' as canonical.sourcerer.deb.version.Version
<SteveA> yes.  c.s.d.v.Version will be bound as DebianVersion in the module's namespace
<Kinnison> coolie
<Kinnison> For implementing a compare function for [] .sort() what does one use as the equivalent of the perl <=> operator?
<SteveA> don't implement a compare function
<SteveA> it is slow, and hard to read
<SteveA> use the schwarzian transform idiom instead
<Kinnison> explain...
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> >>> foo = ['a4', 'b2', 'c6', 'd1'] 
<SteveA> >>> L = [(item[1] , item) for item in foo] 
<SteveA> >>> L.sort()
<SteveA> >>> foo = [obj for sortkey, obj in L] 
<SteveA> >>> foo
<SteveA> ['d1', 'b2', 'a4', 'c6'] 
<SteveA> >>>
<SteveA> In this case, I wanted to sort the contents of `foo` by the second character
<SteveA> that's where `item[1] ` comes from in the second line of code
<Kinnison> Hmm
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: popup work (patch-770)
<SteveA> this is usually much clearer than using a comparison function, and vastly faster to execute
* Kinnison tries to write the equivalent
<Kinnison>             templist = [ DebianVersion(foo) for foo in outpkgs[k]  ] 
<Kinnison>             templist.sort()
<Kinnison>             outpkgs[k]  = [ str(foo) for foo in templist ] 
<stub> bah
<Kinnison> SteveA: that kind of thing?
* stub likes his comparison functions ;)
<Kinnison> hang on
<SteveA> Kinnison: in the first part of the transform, you want to get a list of tuples (sortkey, original)
<Kinnison> sorting tuples only considers the first element?
<SteveA> then you sort the list of tuples
<SteveA> sorting a list of tuples onsiders the first element before the second
<Kinnison> then the operation is unuseful
<Kinnison> the original objects are incomparable
<SteveA> you don't need all this in python 2.4, by the way
<sabdfl> what's the python2.4 syntax?
<Kinnison> I think that since the common-case is for the list to contain two or three elements; I'll put up with the slowness of a sort function
<SteveA> Kinnison: should still work, if the sort keys are all unique
<SteveA> >>> L = [(4, 1j), (2, 4j)] 
<SteveA> >>> L.sort()
<SteveA> >>> L
<SteveA> [(2, 4j), (4, 1j)] 
<SteveA> >>> 4j < 1j
<SteveA> Traceback (most recent call last):
<SteveA>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<SteveA> TypeError: cannot compare complex numbers using <, <=, >, >=
<SteveA> >>>
* Kinnison cannot be certain they'll be unique
<SteveA> Kinnison: okay.  Please write it as a function with docstring, and not a lambda
* Kinnison already was
<SteveA> (most of the examples use lambda)
<Kinnison> I don't understand lambda so I don't use it
<sabdfl> Kinnison: well said
<Kinnison> cmp(o1,o2) does the right thing wrt. o1.__comp__(o2) yes?
<Kinnison> s/comp/cmp/
<SteveA> sort() will take a 'key' keyword argument
<SteveA> you mean __cmp__
<SteveA> implementing __cmp__ is invariably an arse
<SteveA> implementing __eq__ and __ne__ and __le__ __and __ge__ is simpler
<Kinnison> It's not my type I'm comparing
<SteveA> (or, whatever subset of those you need)
<SteveA> oh, ok
<Kinnison> I'm using the sourceror debian-version tools
<SteveA> then, yeah, cmp(x, y)
<Kinnison> def compare_packages(p1,p2):
<Kinnison>     """Compare packages p1 and p2 by their version; using Debian rules"""
<Kinnison>     v1 = DebianVersion(p1.version)
<Kinnison>     v2 = DebianVersion(p2.version)
<Kinnison>     return cmp(v1,v2)
<SteveA> __cmp__ was a mistake in python
<Kinnison> is what I just wrote then
<SteveA> looks good.  the python style guide recommends a space after commas. 
<Kinnison> right
<Kinnison> Is there an equiv of 'static' to mark a single def as being non-exported?
<SteveA> what do you mean "non exported" ?
<SteveA> you can import anything from anywhere
<Kinnison> oh okay
<SteveA> the python convention is to start something with an _
<Kinnison> gotcha
<SteveA> to say it is "private"
* Kinnison does that then
<SteveA> sabdfl: http://www.sourcekeg.co.uk/www.python.org/peps/pep-0290.html#simplifying-custom-sorts
<SteveA> or even, http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0290.html#simplifying-custom-sorts
<SteveA> which is the same, but from the canonical source
<sabdfl> SteveA: nice, thanks
<stub> Anyone have any rules about what a valid version number is? I'm thinking same rules as the productname.
<Kinnison> version numbers are very well defined in debian-policy
<Kinnison> assuming that's what you're after
<stub> yup.
<Kinnison> canonical.sourceror.deb.version.Version is an implementation of debian versions
<Kinnison> you can look there for regexps etc
<stub> excellent
<Kinnison> sourcerer even
<stub> upstream is the upstream package's version number (the 2.4beta2 of python-2.4beta2) ?
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> epoch:upstream-debian
<Kinnison> where 'debian' is not permitted to contain hyphens IIRC
<Kinnison> and epoch must be numeric
<Kinnison> (or absent)
<stub> Bad Scott - embedding utf8 characters in source code :-(
<Kinnison> is that bad?
<stub> It assumes everyone on the team has editors set to the correct encoding or autodetecting editors.
<Kinnison> so long as they leave the utf-8 chars alone it'll be fine ;-)
<Kinnison> testDomination (canonical.lucille.tests.test_domination.TestDominator) ... ok
* Kinnison bounces
<Kinnison> Now to move on to the tool to move superceded packages to death row
<sabdfl> yay!
<sabdfl> Kinnison: i have a doubt about my decision to remove the superceded / removed items from the Publishing tables
<sabdfl> based on malone
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Oh?
<sabdfl> it's a bit hazy, hear me out
* Kinnison is listening
<sabdfl> a use case question is "is there a packagerelease that was uploaded to distrorelease x that fixes a given bug"?
<sabdfl> now, we have bugpackageinfestation, so we can say "that packagerelease fixed this bug" 
<sabdfl> but if that packagerelease has been superceded we don't necessarily know if it was ever uploaded to distrorelease c
<sabdfl> x
* Kinnison nods
<Kinnison> that's a compelling use-case for something
* Kinnison ponders for a moment
<Kinnison> Okay; we add one more PackagePublishingStatus
<Kinnison> we add 'REMOVED' which is chronologically after PENDINGREMOVAL
<sabdfl> don't do it yet
<Kinnison> We never delete from PackagePublishing or SourcePackagePublishing
<Kinnison> would that solve things?
<sabdfl> i think it's worth thinking through the consequences
<Kinnison> The primary consequence is that the publishing tables *will* become massive
<sabdfl> we are working our way through malone, and this interaction between assignments "fix it in this package" and infestation "it's fixed in that package release" is a big grey area
<sabdfl> yes, i don't know that we *have* to bloat the Publishing tables to achieve the goal
<sabdfl> there may be a more elegant way
<Kinnison> Okay; another idea just popped into my head
<Kinnison> we have a 'Morgue' table which contains records which passed out of publishing
<Kinnison> We only stash the sourcepackagereleases there
<Kinnison> so the Morgue just says this sourcepackagerelease was in this distrorelease
<Kinnison> and possibly a datetime it was removed
<Kinnison> How does that sound?
<sabdfl> we have to really understand the rest of the problem before i try to solve this bit
* Kinnison nods
<sabdfl> an extra REMOVED status is one solution
<Kinnison> I think the Morgue table is preferable
<sabdfl> ok
<Kinnison> We should try to keep the publishing tables as small as possible
<sabdfl> agreed
<sabdfl> don't implement the Morgue just yet
<Kinnison> I won't
* Kinnison has plenty to be getting on with
<Kinnison> will you want the solution decided before wednesday; or can we put it on the agenda for then?
<sabdfl> not even by then
* Kinnison isn't quite sure what you mean
<sabdfl> we won't need to decide this on wednesday, maybe during es-conf
<Kinnison> Ok okay :-)
<Kinnison> lucille is modular enough that whatever decision we make will be simple to do in her
<sabdfl> super
<sabdfl> zzzuuuuupppa
* Kinnison writes more Fake... classes for testing lucille's config gatherer
<stub> SteveA: Are we running Zope3X or trunk?
<stub> Wah!
<stub> sabdfl: Source packages don't have unique names, so we have no unique human readable id to represent them :-(
<sabdfl> stub: i know, it's a pain, but in the real world multiple distros all have the same name for totally different packages
<stub> sabdfl: Can I get away with making UNIQUE(SourcePackage.sourcepackagename, SourcePackage.distro) ?
<sabdfl> stub: alas not
<sabdfl> because the source package in a given distro can change
<sabdfl> for example, in warty (ubuntu) the sourcepackage foo might be different to the sourcepackage in hoary
<stub> They are different sourcepackages though - 'hoary foo' and 'warty foo'
<stub> Oh - that is distrorelease
<stub> Well - if this is the case, there is no way for a user to select a sourcepackage.
<stub> The only way of identifying a particular sourcepackage unambiguously is by its numeric database key.
<SteveA> stub: we're running a zopex3 trunk from several weeks ago
<stub> sabdfl: I suspect a sourcepackage should be linked to a distrorelease instead of a distribution. Then we can add the require unique constraint and identify a sourcepackage using the combination of its distrorelease.name and sourcepackagename.name and users won't have to guess
<stub> SteveA: Ta.
<SteveA> stub: for the next update, I'd like us to move to using a .deb, although I need to check whether anyone is still using macosX or something that it won't work with.
<SteveA> basically, the .deb that will be in hoary
<stub> SteveA: As long as it doesn't delay fixes we make to upstream getting back to our codebase.
<stub> I think at the moment we are encouraged to work around Z3 problem rather than fixing them. It would be good if it is easier to sync upstream with our dev version.
<SteveA> stub: yeah, we'll be able to generate a new .deb easily
<SteveA> I've been talking to matthias about it.  he's produced some .debs that I need to look at
<sabdfl> stub: afraid not
<sabdfl> because the source package can change during the production of a distrorelease
<sabdfl> when we start a new release, for example, we might just be using the debian package
<sabdfl> then we modify it
<sabdfl> and what we get is a new sourcepackage
<sabdfl> and if the modified one fails to build on an architecture, then we will have TWO different sourcepackages in the same distrorelease at the same time
<sabdfl> one with binary packages in one architecture, and a second in the others
<stub> If we have two sourcepackages in the same distribution with the same name, it is useless because nothing can tell them apart except for a rather meaningless integer id.
<stub> Or at least useless as far as users cannot choose one. This is a show stopper for Malone's sourcepackagebug assignment, as you could end up with a choice between assigning a bug to 'Ubuntu firefox', 'Ubuntu firefox' or 'Ubuntu firefox' and no way to decide between them.
<sabdfl> well, exactly
<sabdfl> what's the purpose behind "foo = property(foo)"?
<stub> Makes a function call look like an attribute
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> is it a Python thing?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> property(getter_func, setter_func, deleter_func, docstring)
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> thanks
<stub> sabdfl: So we have to drop sourcepackagebugassignment then?
<SteveA> you can have any of those _funcs as None to say "this isn't possible"
<sabdfl> *cough* what?
<sabdfl> stub?
<stub> It is impossible for a user to select a sourcepackage unambiguously.
<SteveA> so, a read-only property is foo = property(get_foo).  write-only is foo = property(None, set_foo)
<sabdfl> stub: right. one solution is to assign the bug to the tuple of (sourcepackagename, distro)
<sabdfl> in other words "fix this damn bug in the package called foo in ubuntu"
<stub> But that isn't unique either. We might have 100 rows in Sourcepackage with that name and distro
<sabdfl> not likely
<sabdfl> bugs would just show up against all of them
<stub> So we would have to create a number of sourcepackagebugassignments instead of one, to match the number of matching rows in sourcepackage ?
<sabdfl> no
<sabdfl> just one assignment
<stub> If we want to represent 'package named blah in ubuntu' we could do it by making the sourcepackagebugassignment link to sourcepackagename and distro
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> "assign to the tuple..."
<sabdfl> but im not quite ready for that yet
<sabdfl> just assign to the *current package called foo"
<sabdfl> which we can do
<sabdfl> there is a big grey area between "assignment" and "infestation"
<sabdfl> which we need to sort out
<sabdfl> it will take a while, mainly using it and figuring out what works
<stub> So we need to somehow determine the 'current' sourcepackages and only present them.
<sabdfl> the soyuz guys have done a lot of work on this
<sabdfl> figuring out which source package to display by default
<stub> ok. I'll chat to them next week.
<sabdfl> stub: where are you running into this?
<sabdfl> in the popup selector?
<stub> Yes - the select a sourcepackage widget. The current one is broken too - we just didn't have suitable sampledata to demonstrate it.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: popup search facility (patch-771)
<sabdfl> SteveA: is there any way to turn a value into a dbschema ENUM object?
<sabdfl> for example, given 40, I want the dbschema.BugSeverity item which has 40 as its vlaue
<sabdfl> stub: we should first answer the questions on how we want it to behave
<sabdfl> with regard to derivative distros
<sabdfl> say someone has a derivative of ubuntu
<sabdfl> kubuntu
<sabdfl> or gnoppix
<sabdfl> and they file a bug on the apache package in there, which is unchanged
<sabdfl> it's basically the ubuntu apache package
<sabdfl> should that bug show up for us, the ubuntu team? or for the gnoppix team?
<sabdfl> if we have a clear answer to that we can implement it easily
<stub> My gut feeling is that even though the apache package is unchanged in the derivative, bugs are still specific to that package/distro combination. For example, the bug might be that the unchanged apache just doesn't work under gnoppix
<SteveA> sabdfl: BugSeverity.items[40] 
<sabdfl> stub: well, my gut feel is that we should at least *record* where the bug report came from
<sabdfl> so that we have the option to filter one way or another
<sabdfl> but more than that, i'm ot certain of
<sabdfl> i want to get malone working in the "single distro" sense before es-conf
<sabdfl> es-conf will largely be about the derivative management process
<sabdfl> for soyuz, lucille, malone, etc
<stub> We still have the 'multiple identical rows in sourcepackage' issue. If we can guarentee that the sourcepackage.sourcepackagename is unique among all the 'current' sourcepackages (however we determine that), then the interface will cope for the time being.
<sabdfl> i dont think this is so bad, actually stub
<sabdfl> we need a slick interface where the dev can say "this isn't a bug in THIS sourcepackage, it's in THAT sourcepackage"
<sabdfl> a reassignment
<sabdfl> these packages are usually tightly related
<sabdfl> the maintainer will know exactly what they are
<stub> Mmm.... I still suspect that (sourcepackage.sourcepackagename, sourcepackage.distro) should be unique, as I thought sourcepackagerelease was suppose to capture snapshots.
<sabdfl> tat's a lot closer, but i think it's still possible for there to be a completely different source package in the same distro with the same name
<Kinnison> SteveA: is there an existing python class for parsing a configuration file from a string in memory or should I use ConfigParser and StringIO ?
<stub> sabdfl: We need a real use case for that. I suspect that it shouldn't be allowed to happen. The only case I can see at the moment for that would be if different people were maintaining  the warty release of a package and the hoary release of a package.
<Kinnison> SteveA: this is for stop-gap config until we normalise it into database columns
<sabdfl> stub: es-conf :-)
<sabdfl> for the moment, display them all, and display maintainer and distro
<sabdfl> should be enough to distinguish them
<debonzi> hi sabdfl, are you up to date with soyuz status? How does it look like?
<sabdfl> debonzi: haven't had a look in a while
<sabdfl> is it running on mawson with current data from hoary, via gina?
<stub> ok. Can I enforce that? UNIQUE(maintainer, distro, sourcepackagename)? Or should we just trust none of the ubuntu package maintainers will break the interface?
<debonzi> sabdfl, should be
<SteveA> Kinnison: ConfigParser and StringIO sounds pretty reasonable
<sabdfl> debonzi: i'll take a look
<Kinnison> SteveA: okies
<Kinnison> SteveA: at least I already know how to use that pair :-)
<debonzi> sabdfl, right.. we know still a lot to do but we whould like to have some feed back 
<stub> breaks the existing popup implementation though, because I don't have a unique human readable key to put in the textbox :-(
<SteveA> stub: did you write the sessioning stuff for zope3?
<stub> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> stub: was it discussed at all to have a way of asking if there is a session, without actually starting one?
<SteveA> right now, even looking to see if there is a session causes one to be created, and the cookie sent to the browser
<stub> is there a use case for not having that behavior?
<SteveA> well, using sessions for auth, and not wanting the overhead for the anonymous
<stub> There is a method to do it in the implementation (getRequestId), but it isn't exposed in the interface
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> I noticed that
<SteveA> also, the RAMSessionDataStorage thing is rather b0rked
<SteveA> it doesn't seem to be tied into transactions at all
<SteveA> so, it gives somewhat random results when used
<stub> I assume this for the auth system, which is storing credentials in the session, so it can say 'there is no client id so I must be anonymous'
<SteveA> at least, that's what I think was going on
<SteveA> yes
<stub> Really? The MappingStorage should be handling that.
<SteveA> yeah, I thought it would do, but it didn't seem to
<SteveA> I'll look into it later.  I've set things up to use the main zodb for launchpad
<stub> If you get different results between the ZODB and the RAM storage there is a bug, since they should work identically.
<BradB> sabdfl: did you see my comments about BugFactory?
<sabdfl> BradB: no, where?
<BradB> i was about a minute too late yesterday :)
<BradB> sabdfl: basically, we need to ensure that all bugs are created with BugFactory
<BradB> e.g. when a bug is created from a product
<BradB> because BugFactory Does The Right Thing (e.g. adds the submitter as a Cc)
<sabdfl> oh, ok
<BradB> it handles both package and product adds
<sabdfl> the submitter should become the owner and that's a special kind of cc anyway
<sabdfl> we need to make owners, and assignment maintainers, visible
<BradB> sabdfl: we're not special-casing that though anymore (if the owner *really* wants, they can unsubscribe)
<sabdfl> hmm... seems to me that "owner" is a pretty fricken' special case :-)
<SteveA> stub:  I think it is something to do with the ram storage not paying proper attention to transactions
<SteveA> or rather, the ram storage in the sessions code 
<SteveA> it isn't a problem with ram storage per se
<BradB> sabdfl: in any case, BugFactory should be used, for whatever given rules we have as a bug gets created (rather than maintaining two or three forks of bug creation code)
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i'll take a look, couldyou file a bug on me please?
<BradB> i haven't yet seen your code so i can't be specific, but i guess i can file a bug that says "BugFactory should be used for creating bugs"
<stub> SteveA: If it isn't tying into the transaction system correctly, then it needs someone more familiar with the ZODB guts than me to look at it. Maybe there is a dead chicken to sacrifice to register the connection with the transaction system that has to be done for each request.
<dilys> New Malone bug #41: "BugFactory should be used to create bugs", submitted by Brad Bollenbach
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/41
<SteveA> stub: I think there might be.  ZODB stuff will be changing a bit soon, anyway.
<SteveA> jim has the "multi-databases" stuff to add, and I really really want to get a lot of the zodb-as-root assumptions out of the code
<stub> Mmm.... just annoying because I distinctly remember testing it, ensuring requests went to seperate threads and the results made sense.
<SteveA> the threading works
<SteveA> I think the transactional stuff doesn't
<SteveA> it may be that it works inside a standardly-setup zope3
<SteveA> but not launchpad
<Kinnison> is there a python class which takes usefully represented time deltas?
<Kinnison> datetime.timedelta appears to suck
<SteveA> timedelta doesn't care about presentation
<SteveA> it isn't in its job description
<Kinnison> right
<Kinnison> so is there something which does?
<SteveA> there's datetime parsing stuff in zope3 somewhere
<Kinnison> I want to be able to cope with deltas like "2d" "14h9m" etc
<SteveA> and also a 3rd party class that is being considered for inclusion in the stanard lib
<SteveA> I suggest coding that yourself -- doesn't look too complex
<Kinnison> I'm happy to code it myself; I was just wondering if I would be duplicating effort unnecessarily
<SteveA> timedelta(days=2), timedelta(hours=14, minutes=9)
<SteveA> (just checking you know about the timedelta constructor)
<Kinnison> Still need to pull apart the string then; okay
<SteveA> there's something in schooltool's ical stuff to parse the ical format for durations
<SteveA> probably not what you want, though
<Kinnison> not really; no
<Kinnison> Since I can control the format easily; I'll just split it up for now
<SteveA> https://moin.conectiva.com.br/DateUtil
* Kinnison looks
<SteveA> doesn't have anything for timedelta though
* debonzi -> caf
<sabdfl> BradB: was that your patch that changed the product selector?
<sabdfl> stevea: i think we need a test that looks for "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()" because I see someone just committed that in some code :-)
<sabdfl> i've done that before
<BradB> sabdfl: how did the selector change? I don't think I've changed anything with it recently.
<sabdfl> must be stub
<stub> Mine. I'm trying to learn enough javascript so it isn't broken ;)
<sabdfl> i noticed that in a recent (this afternoon) merge, the tests went from POST'ing an integer ("3") to a name ("arch-mirrors")
<sabdfl> stub: that's going to break for sure, since product is only unique inside a project :-)
<BradB> hm, that means the vocabulary was changed
<BradB> that would have been caught with the previous pagetest suite, but oh well.
<stub> sabdfl: That is no more broken than it was yesterday - it has never specified (project,product) but just product
<stub> But will need to be fixed.
<dilys> New Malone bug #42: "IMaloneBug needs to go away", submitted by Brad Bollenbach
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/42
<sabdfl> the diff went from specifying an id (3) to a name (arch-mirrors)
<sabdfl> 42!
<sabdfl> stub: ^
<BradB> woohoo, i filed #42
<sabdfl> BradB: it was caught by the forcefield, because I didn't elide the fields, just the decoration
<sabdfl> so stub had to change the test accordingly
<BradB> ah
<sabdfl> :-)
<stub> no wonder there is so much crap javascript - all the online references suck majorly ;-(
<BradB> i'm getting sick of seeing IMaloneBug, so in my next merge it's dead
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: mainly code cleanup, in particular, replaced all mentions of 'MaloneBug' with simply 'Bug' (patch-772)
* BradB continues bug listing UI work after lunch
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Sourcepackage popup (patch-773)
<stub> elmo: pqm hung if you are around
<sabdfl> stub: another dogfood code update tomorrow?
<stub> yup
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> malone is starting to shape up nicely
<sabdfl> big push for es-conf so we can get the team straight onto it
<Kinnison> Well; I'm off now. have fun guys
<debonzi> Kinnison, see you
<BradB> sabdfl: hm, we'll need owner columns on assignments too
<BradB> and colours in the bug listing!
* BradB comes up with a simple colour scheme with css
<BradB> stub: ping
<BradB> sabdfl: ping
<BradB> elmo: ping
<BradB> pqm loops are Just No Fun
#launchpad 2004-11-24
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Must specify both project name and product name to identify a distinct product (patch-774)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: changed bug listing to list package/product assignments, with corresponding status, severity, priority, etc. (patch-775)
<stub> BradB: If you are still around, give me a ping when everything you want has been merged - I'm doing a dogfood update today.
<BradB> oh, pqm stopped hanging...
<BradB> s,hanging,looping,
<BradB> i guess i have to resubmit my last merge request though
<BradB> oh, shit, i didn't want to resubmit
<BradB> patch-775 is what i wanted in there
<BradB> stub: by tomorrow i'm hoping to land a few of the search widgets on the bug listing. i banged my head for a while on trying to figure out how to make a search form using a schema. something like browser:schemadisplay, but Zope 3 certainly wasn't trying to help me out on this task.
<stub> Did you work it out? I haven't tried generating or handling forms from schemas apart form using the addform/editform gumf. 
<BradB> no. i gave up. i might putzky around when i get back from the grocery store though. a mix of actually trying to make things work slash grokking more of zope 3.
<BradB> stub: oh, that reminds me.
<BradB> stub: i was going to ask...i think we need to add owners to assignments.
<BradB> the bug listing now shows assignments, but since there's no assignment/owner/displayname, all the user'll see in that column is "-" for now
<stub> If you have found a use case, sure (or even if you havn't - nice information to have even if it is never displayed or used)
<BradB> stub: it's always displayed. check the bug listing (which is really a listing of assignments)
<stub> So who should become the owner of all the existing assignments? I might set them to the owner of the bug.
<BradB> stub: i think setting them to the bug submitter (i.e. bug "owner" :) is sufficient at this early stage.
!alindeman:*! Quick services work so I can fix some b0rked access list; downtime should be less than a minute
<BradB> stub: hm, i guess Zope 3 is missing a browser:form directive.
<BradB> i want a directive where i can say: for this name, on this object, render a form using this schema.
<stub> Similar to registering vocabularies by name? Love those flat namespaces ;)
<stub> oic - used to attach views to objects
<stub> That would be cool
<BradB> well, to make a form that does something that isn't adding or editing.
<BradB> i'm not sure what browser:schemadisplay does, because i haven't actually implemented an small example to try it out, but at best, it's very oddly named.
<stub> editform sort of works similarly to what you want already
<stub> display indicates render-only to me, although that would be pointless because a normal boring view attached to that interface would be just as good...
<stub> (unless it provides a standard template)
<BradB> stub: it's possible that browser:addform, browser:editform and browser:form could be collapsed into one directive. from the perspective of someone with a human-sized brain, i really hate when five different variations are given for doing the same conceptual thing, due to implementation details bubbling up to the UI.
<BradB> for me those are all "creating a form"
<stub> addform and editform would be difficult to collapse, because one is a view on an object that already exists and the other is a view on something else that lets you create an object. They both would benefit from having an abstracted out 'form' though.
<BradB> i don't really give an ass that one happens to add an object, one happens to make changes to an object, and one submits a form to be emailed
<BradB> it was slightly to discouraging to see /Stephan Richter/ saying earlier that Zope 3 is too hard. :)
* BradB tries out browser:schemadisplay, just to confirm what i think it does
<stub> I suspect it might be - way too much abstraction in all those interfaces. Too many tiny chunks that nobody uses make the bigger chunks you want to use more confusing.
<stub> (IVocabulary is defined in IBaseVocabulary, IIterableVocabulary and some others - but nobody uses anything by IVocabulary)
<BradB> stub: not enough development going on by the people that use it to deliver things that work on billable time, i fear.
<stub> Mmm...
<BradB> but somehow it still feels no worse than what i've developed web apps with before (e.g. webware is not much more fun when you realize, "oh crap, i need to write my own perms system")
<BradB> and, well, WRT the complaints stephan himself has, 1. we've known for a long time that TTW schemas are on the way and 2. if stephan's not happy with something, that probably means it'll be improved soonish.
<stub> Its more fun than Zope2 anyway ;)
<BradB> hell yeah
<BradB> as complex as it sometimes feels, i'm hooked
<stub> I've lived a pretty isolated life and only really played with CGI, Zope2, Zope3 and some Java servelet stuff
<BradB> i've done CGI, HTML::Mason, Webware, Zope 2, Zope 3, mod_perl. i think that's all of them.
<stub> Oh - a small stint maintaining embedded perl, which was real scarey ;)
<BradB> heh
<BradB> hm, what's the name of an adapter factory that creates an adapter that does nothing?
<stub> eh?
<BradB> i want to adapter I1 to I2, I2 is a subset of the attributes of I2, so nothing is needed to actually adapt.
<BradB> s/attributes of I2/attributes of I1/
<stub> There is an implicit adapter, in that if you IFoo(obj) and obj already provides IFoo then you just get obj back
<BradB> yeah, but this is with b:schemadisplay
<BradB> it's telling me it can't adapt my I1 to an I2
<BradB> so i have to say that I1 provides I2, I guess
<BradB> instead of registering a "null" adapter to achieve that
<stub> yes. Or have the l1 interface inherit from the l2 one
<stub> oh fuck off
* stub kicks pqm
<BradB> heh, that was me. i love that bug.
<stub> pqm is not a labomized monkey, it is an autistic one that like to sit in the corner banging its head against the wall ;-(
<BradB> heh
<stub> lifeless: pqm ping
<stub> elmo: pqm ping
<BradB> stub: i thought you killed the pqm infinite loop earlier? because earlier it was looping on your merge.
<stub> not me. Just happened that the patch I submitted before I went to bed got processed just after I had my morning coffee.
<stub> I don't have that sort of access to chinstrap
<BradB> so yeah, b:schemadisplay simply displays those fields.
<BradB> wee
<stub> I think you can build what you want using editform to render and validate a form, which can later be wired up into a .zcml directive.
<BradB> yeah, i was thinking of doing it that way earlier. a bit of a dirty workaround until browser:form is implemented, but it'll do, i suppose.
<stub> form = SchemaForm(IFoo, default_ifoo)
<stub> form.render(request)
<stub> result = form.handle(request) # returns an object() providing IFoo with attributes all set
<BradB> sweeeet.
<stub> The zcml directive would just register a SchemaForm with a givenname and template
<stub> Oh... need a form.validate in there, and request can be passed into the constructor
<BradB> is this science fiction, or you giving an example of what to put in the view?
<stub> It is science fiction, but I think it can be worked up fairly easily using the existing editform
* stub crosses fingers
<BradB> yeah, it would seem that way
<stub> But not this weekend ;)
<stub> Oops... need to head off before the shops close...
<stub> There is a patch in the queue to add owners to *BugAssignment and the Malone & test case fallout btw.
* stub buggers off
<dilys> Merge to 	rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.3: cherry pick fixed ArchiveLocation instantiation (patch-1)
* Kinnison -> out
<SteveA> don't forget to put on your lens
<sabdfl> morning, ish
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> a couple of python wizards are arriving at my place today, to stay in the spare room for a week or two.
<SteveA> There's a pypy (python-in-python) sprint in vilnius.
<sabdfl> cool
<SteveA> If my ubuntu CDs arrive before they leave, I'll spread a few around, and give some to Laura Crighton to take back to Strakt.
<SteveA> if not, POV have a cd burner.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: *BugAssignment.owner (patch-776)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: polish malone (patch-777)
<BradB> morning
<BradB> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> hi Brad
<BradB> hi
<BradB> on phone :)
<BradB> back!
<BradB> maybe i should take this to #zope3-dev
<SteveA> BradB: I reckon I can look at doing this form thing early next week.  Do you think it would speed up development?
<BradB> SteveA: yes. e.g. for the bug search form, it takes too much effort to hand-code HTML widgets + validation.
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> I did do something a bit like this for my first zope3 project
<SteveA> but it was what I ended up near, after hacking / customizing / forking edit-form
<SteveA> and it was a mess
<BradB> eek
<SteveA> so, I think your ideas of doing it afresh, and simply, are better
<BradB> in the abscense of this, i'll probably have to hand-code HTML, but it'll just cost more money to maintain until a make-my-life-easier browser:form directive exists
<SteveA> it would be useful to me if you hand-code this one in HTML.  then, it becomes the first candidate for replacement
<SteveA> but it provides a real first example
<BradB> yes, i will, because i want something working this weekend no matter what.
<BradB> (e.g. even if hand-coding is necessary, which for now it is)
<SteveA> ok.  let's talk about it more next week, when you've done the form, and I've emptied some of my todo list
<BradB> sure
<BradB> thanks
<SteveA> thanks for bringing this up!
<BradB> no prob :)
<SteveA> I think this might lead to more sane add/edit forms eventually too
<BradB> i hope so.
<SteveA> if you get an example with more than one form on a page, let me know
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> I'd rather work from a real-life requirement than a kind of "it would be neat", of course
<BradB> yes
#launchpad 2004-11-25
<dilys> New Malone bug #43: "Zope 3 needs a browser:form directive", submitted by Brad Bollenbach
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/43
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Nuke some arch-tags (patch-778)
<stub> debian says version numbers should start with a number, but that doesn't seem to be the case with the dogfood data.
<elmo> 3dchess
<elmo> 3270
<elmo> oh, version, sorry
<elmo> stub: policy only says "should", not "must"
<stub> ok - I'll ease up on the restrictions then.
<stub> (as long as I get to keep a sane delimiter character like ' ' :-)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: More flexible version validator to match flexible debian policy (patch-779)
<bob2> yo
<bob2> how does one get access to launchpad.ubuntu.com?
<lifeless> stub: does the dogfood server use the production database ?
<stub> lifeless: dogfood uses the dogfood database
<lifeless> cool
<stub> (which is safer, but sucks because we will have a real shitty import job to do at some point ;-( )
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: implement default branch tla target scanning (patch-35)
<stub> bob2: You need the client certificate elmo emailed to launchpad@ a while ago
<stub> lifeless: Any constraints on that SourceSource.branchpoint column? NOT NULL etc?
<lifeless> nope
<stub> Heh... you almost got SourceSource.branchpoing and I wouldn't have noticed except that the COMMENT command failed ;)
<lifeless> cool.
<lifeless> can you also push that into production at the first chance.
<stub> You want I just apply that patch to the production db, or should we do a full codedrop?
<bob2> stub: ah
<lifeless> stub ah. good point. Do a full db drop, I'll see if anything breaks and do a codedrop if needed.
<lifeless> I (obviously) don't have the code for that field in place yet, but hope to do so asap.
<stub> ok. So it can wait until Monday?
<lifeless> sure.
<stub> lifeless: I think my merge request screwed PQM
<stub> oh no 
<stub> Hmm.... tla taking 6+ minutes to do its thing?
<stub> Mmm.... zombie tla owned by pqm
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Popup improvements and SourceSource.branchpoint for Robert Collins (patch-780)
<lifeless> checking
<lifeless> pqm is not running
<sabdfl> yowser, someone went on a great cleanup run
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: switch cache building to default branch handling on by default (patch-36)
<sabdfl> hiya lifeless, that your merge?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: unix modes are octal, not octects. The native protocol was generating octect based values - fix this (patch-37)
!dmwaters:*! Hi all! One of our servers will be rebooted shortly for maintenence. I'll notice that server. about 1400 users effected
<carlos> do you know if there is any way to package a python program like .jar from java?
<doko> carlos: starting with python2.3 you can put them in a zip file, add it to PYTHONPATH or sys.path and run it.
<carlos> doko: then I need the .zip + a .py that imports it?
<carlos> or just with a .zip file is enough?
<doko> hmm, never tried a zip file alone ...
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> I think I have an idea
<carlos> a .py that includes the .zip into the own script, extracts it into /tmp/ and includes is from sys.path
<carlos> doko: thanks
<doko> see http://localhost/doc/python2.3/html/whatsnew/node5.html
<doko> carlos: hmm, the most elegant way ;)
<carlos> doko: thanks
<sabdfl> stub: think we should carve CVE refs into a separate table, and get rid of the polymorphism?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: malone polish (patch-781)
<SteveA> oh, *that* is why my changes mysteriously disappeared
<SteveA> someone's been removing arch-tags
<SteveA> but when this happens to a file I'm working on, the changes I've made silently disappear when I update
<SteveA> fuck, what a mess
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: malone polish (patch-782)
<lifeless> SteveA: I had a serious chat with Stuart about that. He's promised not to do it again.
<SteveA> is there an easy way for me to find out the files affected?
<Kinnison> Look at his pqm merge completion mail?
<SteveA> yeah, i should have that in my mail somewhere
<Kinnison> tla cat-log stuart.bishop@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-392
<Kinnison> in your launchpad tree
<Kinnison> might do the trick too
<lifeless> Kinnison: patch-7xx - the merged one - is the one to do,
<Kinnison> lifeless: in the rocketfuel tree; yes
<SteveA> phew -- only zodb.py was broken for me
<SteveA> yay
* SteveA finds his big "DUH!" of the weekend and unbreaks soyuz in his tree
#launchpad 2004-11-26
* stub is a bad, bad person who shall be spanked
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.0: baz cacherev is now much smarter. 'baz cacherev (|patch-level|FQ(PN/VN)) now works' (patch-65)
<stub> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnu-arch/  <-- The GNU Arch logo is a squid taking a crap???
<sabdfl> stub: wrong window? /msg wife net time :-)
<sabdfl> next
<sabdfl> lifeless, SteveA: i'd like to get rid of the arch tags, but understand we don't want to lose changes in the process
<sabdfl> can i suggest that the process be to move the offending file to filname.py.oldtag, then copy it to the new filename and remove the tag
<sabdfl> we can remove the oldtag files once we are happy it won't lose changes
<sabdfl> stub: still around?
<stub> yo
<sabdfl> any chance of a dogfood code update today?
<stub> sure
<sabdfl> thanks, i'mkeen to start polishing the malone UI and get feedback
<stub> Last update was yesterday
<sabdfl> i made some more tweaks last night
<sabdfl> does it take a long time to rev it?
<sabdfl> also, i'm trying to make newsampledata, has the procedure changed?
<sabdfl> i did a "make" in the db/schema dir, then made my changes, then "make newsampledata", and the changes did not show up in the newsampledata
<sabdfl> stub: ^ ?
<stub> Its a fairly quick and painless procedure
<sabdfl> erm, sorry, i'm an idiot
<stub> I'm not aware of any sampledata changes
<sabdfl> i was making the vchanges on the dogfood server, no wonder it didn't show up on my localhost :-)
<sabdfl> SteveA, stub: is there any way to make widgets context-aware
<sabdfl> for example, if we have already selected an upstream product, then when it comes to selecting packages, we should pre-show a shortlist of packages for those products
<Kinnison> Morning
<stub> sabdfl: A widget can get its context, as can a named vocabulary
<sabdfl> ok, that's the context that it's running on
<sabdfl> can that be used to share information between cooperating widgets?
<sabdfl> hmm... no it can't
<sabdfl> because that all has to happen client side, really
<sabdfl> unless we make popups the default, and make the popup check the context too
<sabdfl> here's the example: the "add a bug" form
<stub> sabdfl: I think a widget might be able to locate other widgets in the same form, but you are right in that it would involve resubmitting the form
<sabdfl> it has the bug details, then the upstream, then the package selector
<stub> I think this is might example you are stealing ;)
<sabdfl> it would make sense that the package selector would learn from the upstream product selector
<sabdfl> might example?
<stub> c/might/my
<sabdfl> ry
<sabdfl> using popups this could still work though
<sabdfl> when the popup selector pops, does it contact the server at all?
<stub> Yes - we would define a customized popup so that it interrogates the parent form for the product and only displays the available sourcepackages.
<sabdfl> can't *only* display the available sourcepackages
<stub> sabdfl: Yes - the popup window is a view on the page it was loaded from (the editform or addform view)
<sabdfl> would have to allow you to search because we are not certain that every package and upstream is already in the db
<sabdfl> and besides, a bug could affect two unrelated packages
<stub> So the popup would default to showing the best guesses (if possible), but search is still possible?
<SteveA> sabdfl: I think it would be fine to do what you suggest to all the files that have tags.
<SteveA> the important thing is that files don't just disappear altogether
<Kinnison> Morning lulu
<lulu> kinnison: :o) again!
<Kinnison> I need to add a whatever it is called (MultipleJoin ?) to the DistroRelease class in order to get at the DistroArchRelease objects related to it. How do I do that, given that DistroRelease is defined with the _columns = []  syntax ?
<carlos> Kinnison: you can see an example at lib/canonical/launchpad/database/person.py
<carlos> # RelatedJoin gives us also an addLanguage and removeLanguage for free
<carlos>     languages = RelatedJoin('Language', joinColumn='person',
<carlos>         otherColumn='language', intermediateTable='PersonLanguage')
<carlos>     _emailsJoin = MultipleJoin('RosettaEmailAddress', joinColumn='person')
<carlos> def emails(self):
<carlos>         return iter(self._emailsJoin)
<Kinnison> carlos: Right
<Kinnison> So...
<Kinnison>     _archJoin = MultipleJoin( 'DistroArchRelease', joinColumn='distrorelease' )
<Kinnison>     def architectures(self):
<Kinnison>         return iter(self._archJoin)
<Kinnison> allows me to do something like:
<Kinnison> for dar in dr.architectures():
<Kinnison>    pass
<Kinnison> yes?
<carlos> Kinnison: I think so
<Kinnison> cool; I'll try it later when I have a db to try it on :-)
* Kinnison gets on with writing interfaces to fake that up again :-)
<carlos> Kinnison:  the "_archJoin" thing is only needed if you are exposing that in the interface
<Kinnison> oh? Otherwise what should I do?
<carlos> if it's for internal use, you can use it directly with other name
<carlos> just architectures = MultipleJoin ...
<Kinnison> oh righty
<Kinnison> so...
<Kinnison>     architectures = MultipleJoin( 'DistroArchRelease',
<Kinnison>                                   joinColumn='distrorelease' )
<Kinnison> let's me do
<Kinnison> for dar in dr.architectures:
<Kinnison>    pass
<Kinnison> ?
<stub> I've just done the dogfood update
<Kinnison> elmo: ping?
<carlos> Kinnison: yes
<carlos> Kinnison: it looks like an attribute but it's a method
<Kinnison> carlos: cool
<carlos> or a kind of
<Kinnison> Heh
<carlos> that's how I see it, not sure if I'm wrong but it works that way :-)
<Kinnison> >>> dr.architectures[0] .architecturetag
<Kinnison> u'i386'
* Kinnison owes carlos a beer
<carlos> Kinnison: ;-)
<SteveA> carlos: how is https://wiki.canonical.com/RosettaToDogfood going?
<carlos> SteveA: don't know, I left on Thursday to attend a GNOME conference, I gave to daf a scritp to import the users into the dogfood server
<carlos> SteveA: we had a problem with it and spiv was looking at it
<SteveA> ok, let's ask daf when he is here.
<carlos> I need to talk today with spiv and daf to know the status
<SteveA> andrew is on vacation now
<SteveA> you won't be able to talk with him
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> do you know what the problem was?
<carlos> the transactions were not working
<carlos> the import was done, but it was never committed
<carlos> spiv said he saw it before but he was not able to reproduce it
<carlos> until we gave him our script
<SteveA> I can see that this is a problem with zopeless setup that needs fixing.  but it should not stop actually moving rosetta to use the dogfood server.
<SteveA> the script could have explicit transaction handling in it
<carlos> SteveA: If I do that, the script breaks
<carlos> let me execute it and show you the error...
<SteveA> ok
<Kinnison> If I have been hacking on a pile of stuff and then I realise that I need to undo about four changes to a dir; commit everything else; then get that bit back; is it possible in tla?
<Kinnison> aah buggrit; it can go as one uberchange and then I'll carry on hacking :-)
<carlos> hmmm, it does not gives an error now, but the data is not stored
<carlos> wait
<carlos> ok
<carlos> SteveA: it's fixed
<carlos> I was looking at the wrong database
<carlos> SteveA: it should work now if it's executed in the dogfood database
<SteveA> ok.  is there anything else standing in the way of getting rosetta to use the dogfood system today?
<SteveA> have the changes to virtual hosting set-up been discussed with elmo?
<carlos> SteveA: don't know, that's the only thing that remains to move to dogfood server as soon as the script is executed in the new server
<carlos> are we moving then to launchpad.domain or will we still use rosetta.domain?
<SteveA> to users of the system, it will appear the same as before
<carlos> ok
<sabdfl> ok, bug assignment is looking a LOT better now
<sabdfl> SteveA: in tal, how can is set an attribute to an element if something on the context is True?
<SteveA> you mean an attribute in the xml sense?
<SteveA> yeah
<Kinnison> Okay; I've finally seen it too many times not to know what it means... what *is* 'tal' ?
<SteveA> um, you'd say tal:attributes="foo python:context/truevalue and 'something' or None"  but that is very ugly
<SteveA> better to use a method on your view's class
<SteveA> Kinnison: "Template attribute language".  a language expressed as elements and attributes in a particular namespace, used in xml documents to do certain kinds of processing.
<SteveA> used in wikipedia's wiki implementation, zope, plone, zope3, roundup, and various other places
<Kinnison> SteveA: gotcha
<sabdfl> SteveA: great, thanks, view method it is :-)
<Kinnison> How do I get the equivalent of gdb for python then? E.g. perl -d
<elmo> pdb
<Kinnison> we don't seem to install that by default. Or is it a module or something?
<Kinnison> elmo: any chance you can get mawson's archive mirror updated?
<Kinnison> aah it is
<elmo> it's a module - see the python docs
<Kinnison> thanks dude
<elmo> yeah, I'm doing it now
<SteveA> Kinnison: neat way: insert the following in your software somewhere.  import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
<SteveA> conventionally it is on one line, statements separated by a semicolon
<SteveA> this drops you into the debugger where it is executed
<Kinnison> I see
* Kinnison tries this
<SteveA> use 's' to step to the actual point you want
<Kinnison> yep
<SteveA> use 's' to step, 'n' to skip over the next statement
<SteveA> 'c' to continue
<SteveA> and various other things
<SteveA> use vi or emacs?
<SteveA> there's a groovy add-on for emacs where you can use the pdb console in one window, and see the code synchronized in another 
<SteveA> and there's a similar but less functional thing for vim somewhere too
<doko> Kinnison: in recent python packages pdb is installed as a binary as well in /usr/bin
<Kinnison> SteveA: About three steps and one print and I worked out what was missing from my code
* Kinnison fluffles pdb
<Kinnison> Lua has a similar tool
<Kinnison> wherever you want to drop into the debugger stick debug.debug()
<Kinnison> so if you want to drop into the debugger on every line stick that as a linehook :-)
<Kinnison> I ought to write a better debugger using all that
<SteveA> pdb is great.  jim fulton wrote a howto once called "the debugger is my friend" 
<Kinnison> Heh
<Kinnison> What's the equiv of int() for floating point numbers?
<SteveA> or was it "the debugger is your friend"
<SteveA> you mean a constructor?
<SteveA> float()
<Kinnison> coolie
<SteveA> eww, floats ;-)
<Kinnison> or does str have a method for that?
<sabdfl> SteveA: is it possible to bind a checkbox input and some text, so clicking on the text is like clicking on the checkbox?
<Kinnison> I'm being workraved; bbl after a 'rest break'
<SteveA> Kinnison: well, that depends on what you want to do.  int() constructs an int, and float() constructs a float.  Maybe you want to parse strings into ints / floats?
<SteveA> sabdfl: try making the text a <label for="checkbox_name">Text here</label>
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> alternatively, enclose the lot in the <label>Text <input ... /> </label>.  But the former is easier to maintain, I think, and clearer.
<SteveA> it says more clearly what you want.
<sabdfl> doesnt work
<sabdfl> label comes after the input?
<SteveA> let me do a quick experiment
<Kinnison> SteveA: well yes; I want a float from a string :-)
<Kinnison> SteveA: I.E. given '5.3' I want 5.3
<SteveA> sabdfl: my mistake.  the "for" has to refer to an id attribute
<sabdfl> id?
<SteveA> so <label for="mybox">Some text</label>  <input type="checkbox" id="mybox" name="mybox" value="foo" />
<sabdfl> ok, will try, thanks
<Kinnison> Yes; that's right
<SteveA> Kinnison: float('1.2')
<Kinnison> <label> tags are your a11y friend
<Kinnison> SteveA: yeah; I'll do that then. thanks
<SteveA> catch ValueError, generally
<Kinnison> that's probably a job for the thing calling this
<Kinnison> but I'll consider it
<SteveA> I can't comment, not having seen/understood the code
* Kinnison nods
<Kinnison> It's lots of skeleton code currently as I slowly hang things off the lucille config framework
<Kinnison> Once we know what the config should really *really* look like; it'll become columns in the database and thus be typechecked implicitly
<SteveA> in that case, I wouldn't catch an exception at all, and let it propagate to the thread
<SteveA> seeing as it is a coding error / setup error if so
<Kinnison> Cool; that was what I was thinking. It's good to have confirmation
<SteveA> ok
* SteveA goes for a rave
<sabdfl> SteveA: when you're all raved out, could you tell me what the right way to select a checkbox is in html? in otherwords, to render it checked
<sabdfl> selected="yes" doesn't work
<Kinnison> CHECKED
<Kinnison> erm; checked :-)
* Kinnison spanks capslock
<Kinnison> <checkbox name="foo" value="bar" checked>
<sabdfl> Kinnison: multo gracias!
<SteveA> well
<SteveA> that's not valid xhtml
<SteveA> so, we should say <checkbox ... checked="checked" />
<Kinnison> Aah; sabdfl asked for html not xhtml
<Kinnison> also I think checked="1" should work
<Kinnison> the important thing is the presence of the attribute; not its value
<SteveA> checked="I am the lord high executioner" should work
<Kinnison> checked="striped"
<sabdfl> SteveA: moonlighting again?
<sabdfl> lot's of work in baghdad :-0
<Kinnison> I watched southpark all too recently
<sabdfl> Kinnison: fashion, daaaahling
<Kinnison> when stevea said that; my brain rebelled with "but you're not mr Garrison"
<sabdfl> bug assignment report looking MUCH healthier
<sabdfl> it even doesn't show you your closed bugs now :-)
<Kinnison> yay
<Kinnison> I've been finding holes in lucille while writing her tests
* Kinnison is up to 50 nice tests now :-)
<Kinnison> oh no, 51 :-)
<sabdfl> Kinnison: think gina and nicole are ready for the productoin server yet?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Hmm; Well; gina is doing okay on mawson
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I think I need to finish a few more tweaks on lucille and then we can mock up a commandline tool to do the bits of lucille needed for gina's output to make sense in the face of new uploads
<Kinnison> sabdfl: then we'll be ready
<Kinnison> sabdfl: perhaps we can discuss that on wednesday?
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> i'd like to have soyuz running in a prodction environment for es-conf
<sabdfl> (katie still doing the archive mngmnt, date reflected in soyuz via gina)
<Kinnison> Yep
<Kinnison> We can do that
<Kinnison> I need to start laying down the filesystem layout
<Kinnison> assuming DISTROROOT, any objections to the following:
<Kinnison> DISTROROOT/<distroname>/{dists, pool}
<Kinnison> DISTROROOT/misc/contents.header
<Kinnison> DISTROROOT/cache
<Kinnison> DISTROROOT/overrides
<Kinnison> where the <distroname> subdir is the actual archive and the rest is bookkeeping etc?
* Kinnison -> collecting SO
<elmo> contents.header is obsolete and unused
<morgs> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> hi morgs
<morgs> SteveA: quick question on DOAP: I'm working on importing a huge RDF file from Freshmeat, and I'm wondering how best to do it.
<morgs> Looks like DOAP is a close cousin of this RDF file
<morgs> and if you have any DOAP importing maybe I could try to transform this file into DOAP?
<morgs> SteveA: So who's working on DOAP-related stuff? Should I follow up with cprov?
<sabdfl> morgs: we haven't implemented doap, but we've worked closely with the author
<sabdfl> in fact, he's likely to integrate a lot of our productseries / productrelease design into the next release of doap
<sabdfl> then i will ask you to implement a doap exporter for launchpad, so that people can get doap fragments for any data in launchpad
<morgs> sabdfl: sounds good. So I'll carry on with importing RDF from Freshmeat at this stage...
<sabdfl> elmo: do you know who wrote debzilla (debbugs to bugzilla importer)?
<sabdfl> morgs: yes please
<elmo> sabdfl: mdz
<sabdfl> where does that code live?
<elmo> chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/, I think
<elmo> james@chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/matt.zimmerman@canonical.com--2004 $ ls
<elmo> =meta-info  debzilla  germinate
<Kinnison> elmo: unused/obsolete?
<sabdfl> elmo: tnx :-)
<Kinnison> elmo: do we not bother with it in Ubuntu then?
<elmo> oh, well, okay, it's not entirely obsolete, but it's pretty broken - it use to have variable substitution done on it, but apt-ftparchive doesn't do that anymore, so the top of the Contents file is broken and has been for like 2-3 years and no one's cared - anyway, never mind me
<Kinnison> I imagine we'll just put something there to name the two columns or something for now
<Kinnison> Can python do default values to parameters using self?
<Kinnison> E.g.
<Kinnison> def foo(self, bar = self.bar):
<kiko> no
<kiko> self is not materialized in that context.
<kiko> it's simply a name.
<Kinnison> boo hiss :-(
<Kinnison> Ta
<kiko> use bar=None and if bar is None: bar = self.bar
<Kinnison> yeah
* Kinnison discovers that lucille's unittests comprise almost 50% of the unittests run by "python test.py -u"
<SteveA> daf: please ping me when you are around
<SteveA> Is it so that an EmailAddress must have a Person ?
<SteveA> EmailAddress.personid is non-null
<sabdfl> elmo: where can i get a copy of the debbugs db, like the one debzilla uses?
<carlos> SteveA: yep, which sense has an email without a person?
<daf> SteveA: hi
<carlos> BradB: ping
<carlos> daf: hey
<daf> hi carlos 
<BradB> carlos: pong
<carlos> BradB: is there any way to get an error with the "set" method of a SQLObject?
<BradB> SteveA: Where are we at with giving things absolute URL's? It's taking too much effort currently to followup to a bug.
<elmo> sabdfl: AIUI, debzilla uses an rsynced copy of the bugs spool
<dilys> Bug 1975 resolved: Create a script that updates the cached statistics data
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1975
<SteveA> BradB: I haven't started work on that yet.
<carlos> BradB: It's hard to debug an error there if it does not shows you any warning if you use wrong var names there...
<sabdfl> elmo: right, do you know which machine that copy lives on, and can I rsync a copy to my local machine to test with?
<SteveA> I have some questions about the set-up on the dogfood server.
<sabdfl> BradB: hi!
<SteveA> I think we'll want to have a Data.fs ZODB FileStorage on there
<sabdfl> daf: hi too!
<BradB> sabdfl: hi :)
<elmo> sabdfl: the master copy lives on merkel.debian.org
<daf> sabdfl: hi
<SteveA> because if we do cookie-login and sessions using memorystorage, everyone will be logged out when the server is restarted.
<elmo> sabdfl: the copy in the data centre lives on macquarie, I'd imagine - but it's not available publicly
<sabdfl> elmo: is a recent copy on chinstrap anywhere? or another machine I have access too?
<SteveA> then again, I suppose if it is restarted only daily, perhaps that's not a problem right now.
<BradB> carlos: mm, if it lets you pass in kw args for columns that don't exist (which ISTR it does), it's a bug in sqlobject.
<SteveA> it might be a bit inconvenient for development, but then, you can use basic auth still for development.
<daf> SteveA: if the login form is clever enough, that won't be excessively onerous
<sabdfl> elmo: please could you allow me onto macquarie then?
<daf> SteveA: i.e if it sends you back to whence you came after you've logged in
<SteveA> daf: stub.py and stub.zcml are still in the rosetta package.
<BradB> SteveA: any projections on when asking a thing for its absolute url will work?
<carlos> BradB: then I detected a bug, where should I report it?
<daf> SteveA: removing...
<sabdfl> SteveA: to what extent are we protected from form entries like "title; DELETE FROM sourcepackage;"
<BradB> carlos: in malone
<elmo> sabdfl: done
<carlos> ok
<sabdfl> elmo: gracias (practising for es-conf :-)
<SteveA> BradB: no.  I've been caught up in sorting out auth that I haven't thought about it much yet.
<carlos> sabdfl: ;-)
<BradB> SteveA: ok
<carlos> sabdfl: that + "Donde estn mis pantalones?" is all you need here
<carlos> X-)
<SteveA> daf: in the c.l.database.person, there's a reference to RosettaEmailAddress
<BradB> carlos: oh wait, dude...
<SteveA> I doubt that code will work, and I'm sure it isn't being tested
<BradB> carlos: i just checked the sqlobject documentation; it's also used for non-db attributes, so it's not a bug.
<carlos> BradB: then, we just be really careful with the .set() method :-(
<carlos> BradB: is it ok if I put a warning in the wiki?
<SteveA> sabdfl: provided people use the sqlobject stuff, then sqlobject always quotes things.
<BradB> carlos: if you think it's necessary. i haven't seen other people bring it up.
<carlos> BradB: so I suck :-P
<daf> SteveA: I'll investigate
<BradB> i can see why something like a setColumns would be useful, but, oh well, i can't think about the API for that (set vs. setColumns, etc) at the moment.
<sabdfl> wtf is a pantalone?
<sabdfl> carlos: ^?
<carlos> sabdfl: pants
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> sabdfl: ask jeff
* BradB goes through and closes the bugs in Malone that should be closed. /me encourages others to do the same.
<daf> (trousers)
<SteveA> daf and carlos: what remains to be done to get rosetta using the dogfood systems?
<sabdfl> elmo: seems I land up in the launchpad directory, with no way to tell macquarie about my authorized_keys?
<carlos> sabdfl: you need to see the GUADEC 3 video that Ximian guys did
<sabdfl> seems appropriately secure, if it's planned that way :-)
<SteveA> I of course mean the rosetta alpha system.
<daf> we need to do the main_template override
<SteveA> I asked you to do that first of all
<SteveA> please do it now
<daf> oh, ok
<SteveA> what else needs doing?
<carlos> daf: the script seems to be working now (I suppose spiv fixed the problem)
<elmo> sabdfl: err - huh?  what are you trying to do?
<daf> carlos: what script? what problem?
<carlos> daf: the script I did on Wednesday to import the old users into dogfood database
<daf> carlos: ok
<daf> carlos: what was the problem?
<carlos> daf: the transaction was never committed
<SteveA> daf and carlos: why don't you two have a meeting (perhaps on #canonical-meeting) where the goal is to get a list of absolutely everything left to do so that we can put rosetta alpha on the dogfood server.
<SteveA> I want this to be done today.
<carlos> it's ok for me
<BradB> doh, we can't comment on bugs anymore.
<daf> understood
<SteveA> that means, we need to carefully think through what needs to be done, and make sure we co-ordinate properly with other people who may need to do stuff for us, or who may be affected by us.
<BradB> daf: will dilys see changes in bug status?
<daf> BradB: do close events send emails?
<BradB> everything sends emails
<BradB> so yes
<BradB> (except subscribing people)
<SteveA> BradB: is it okay if daf looks at this later?
<daf> in that case, I can make dilys send closure notfications as soon as I have a test email
<SteveA> I really do want the rosetta team to focus on getting the rosetta alpha running on the dogfood server
<BradB> SteveA: sure
<SteveA> daf: please leave this until later
<SteveA> daf and carlos: nothing else, until we're using the dogfood server for rosetta, okay?
<daf> ok
<BradB> sabdfl: did you remove the test that shows that comments work?
<carlos> ok
<sabdfl> BradB: i don't think so
<BradB> hm, maybe the UI got elided
<sabdfl> BradB, daf: i've got a much better "bugs assigned" report over here, will go up with the next dogfood code rev
<sabdfl> it actually treats closed bugs as closed :-)
<daf> handy :)
<BradB> sabdfl: the next revision will include my search widgets, which'll handle that.
<BradB> (on the main bug listing)
<BradB> filtering on package, product, status and assignee
<daf> I have a pending change which tidies up the subjects of bug notifications
<daf> I'll try and get that merged soon
<sabdfl> BradB: filter the "see all bugs" page?
<BradB> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> BradB: ok, i hope we haven't duplicated too much work, but nonetheless i enjoyed fixing it
<BradB> assigned to and submitted by pages will end up being irrelevant. if anything, they'll become links to the main bug listing that have the search criteria preselected.
<BradB> the test suite is slipping though :(
<BradB> i can't comment on a bug. when i change the status of an assignment i get this weird second widget appearing beside the "Product" input box.
<BradB> the second widget being a product dropdown
<daf> gaaah, can we fix this arrowBlank.gif thing once and for all?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Finished the statistics update code (Closes: #1975) (patch-783)
<sabdfl> daf: i'll do it
<daf> sabdfl: great
<SteveA> BradB: I have a failing malone page test in my tree, and I'm having difficulty seeing what's wrong with it.
<SteveA> aw crap, they pass now...
<Kinnison> yay, a schroedinger bug
<Kinnison> don't observe it failing or it'll change
<Kinnison> bwuahahaha
<SteveA> test_on_merge.py is stalling for me
<SteveA>   File "./test_on_merge.py", line 47, in main
<SteveA>     errlines = err.readlines()
<SteveA> KeyboardInterrupt
<SteveA> make: *** [check]  Error 1
<SteveA> who added the popen2 stuff to it?
<SteveA> by reversing the reading of error and out streams, it runs again
<carlos> SteveA: I have some code that uses popen2 but not sure if it's related...
<carlos> SteveA: do you know the file?
<SteveA> test_on_merge.py
<carlos> directly in that file?
<SteveA> hmm, it doesn't run again.  stalled again.
<carlos> then it's not my fault
<SteveA> ok
* SteveA uses threads
<SteveA> that's much better
<SteveA> hmm, except that one of andrew's xmlrpc tests is hanging now.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Small updates to the sample data (patch-784)
* Kinnison cries
<Kinnison> apt-ftparchive calls components 'sections'
<elmo> yeah, it's neat isn't it
* Kinnison hides this breakage from the user
<Kinnison> elmo: how did you stay sane coding for this stuff?
<Kinnison> Oh hang on; are you sane?
<elmo> not really
<Kinnison> Heh
<sabdfl> sanest damn wallbuster i know
<sabdfl> dudes, 8 hours straight, NOT ONE JELLYBEAN
<daf> cold turkey, eh?
<sabdfl> whats this likely to do:
<sabdfl> for bug in filter(None,map(self.alias_to_bugid,self.bzdb.all_aliases())):
<sabdfl> ?
<daf> None is the same as "lambda x: True"
<sabdfl> sqisuh it different to wiggle?
<daf> yes
<sabdfl> right
<daf> in other words, it should be the same as "for bug in map(self.alias_to_bugid,self.bzdb.all_aliases()):"
<daf> what it actually means depends on what self.bzdb.all_aliases() does
<sabdfl> right
<SteveA> argh
<SteveA> I'm going to grep the source for filter and map
<BradB> why?
<SteveA> because I think some people have used them in the code where there are clearer alternatives
<BradB> as long as the tests pass, the code needn't be perfect
<SteveA> it needn't be perfect, but it does need to be clear
<SteveA> otherwise, people waste time and energy trying to understand obscure code
<SteveA> I'd rather it be clear and slightly wrong (with tests passing) than obscure and correct  
<SteveA> and I'm afraid "filter(None,map(self.alias_to_bugid,self.bzdb.all_aliases()))" gets a "*    " out of "*****" on my clarity scale.
<Kinnison> SteveA: it gets "     " on mine
<BradB> i'm not a big fan of cleaning up code that we may well throw out anyway, but oh well
<SteveA> if it needs to be thrown out, throw it out
<SteveA> if it is in use, make it clear
<SteveA> even a comment above it would be an improvement
<daf> Kinnison: what do you think of [ self.alias_to_bugid(alias) for alias in self.bzdb.all_aliases() if test(x) ] ?
<Kinnison> ** "     "
<Kinnison> complicated list comprehension scares me
<daf> was that two stars, or none?
<daf> oh, minus two? :)
<Kinnison> that was minus two :-)
<Kinnison> a comprehension of the form [ a for a in l ]  is pretty much the most I ever produce
<daf> isn't that the same as "l"?
<Kinnison> not if l is a dict
<daf> really?
<daf> is it like l.keys() or l.values()
<daf> ?
<Kinnison> keys
<elmo> that's a python2.3 ism btw
<Kinnison> that iterating a dict gives you the keys?
<elmo> bites me all the freaking time - I use it, works on jackass and then promptly blows up on newraff
<elmo> Kinnison: yeah
<daf> elmo: what does it do in 2.2?
<elmo> daf: throws a "dict is not iterable - you LOSER" exception
<daf> ah :)
<sabdfl> so, are the baz guys going to to a --mao-errors option?
<sabdfl> "lying"
<sabdfl> "cheating"
<sabdfl> "doesn't fit"
<daf> "failure to remove conflicts and say that you have done so"
<SteveA> daf: have you finished making rosetta use the dogfood server yet?
<daf> I've made the code changes, I think
<daf> do I have access to the dogfood DB?
<SteveA> that's the kind of question I was talking about when I asked you to make a list of all the things you had to consider, and people you had to coordinate with
<daf> yes, I should have thought of that
<SteveA> back to the planning, then:  update the list of things to do with everything you can think of that needs to be done to achieve the goal.
<daf> BradB: around?
<BradB> daf: yes
<daf> if I'm patching the dogfood db with some user accounts from the alpha, do I need to change launchpad_dogfood, launchpad_dogfood_20041115 or launchpad_dogfood_template?
<daf> what's the difference between them?
<BradB> daf: you'll have to ask stub. he's grandmaster dogfood.
<daf> hmm, he doesn't seem to be around
<BradB> nope, but he's the only one that can do anything about it.
<daf> not surprising, since it's 4am in Sydney
<BradB> heh
<daf> SteveA: I think I'll have to wait before stub gets up before doing the user account import
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Enabled cookie-auth, and various other incidental things. (patch-785)
<carlos> yahoo!!
<carlos> welcome cookie-auth!!
<SteveA> ok, time to email the list...
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Large chunks of lucille stuff (patch-786)
* daf works out that the reason his merge hasn't gone through is that his mail is broken again
<Kinnison> poor daf
<sabdfl> bring on the cookie monster!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: make Malone notifications consistently use " rather than ' in subjects (patch-787)
<daf> oh, poot
<daf> did the PQM-hangs-on-empty-merge bug get fixed?
<SteveA> firefox says "cookies are delicious delicacies" on the cookie settings UI
<SteveA> we are avoiding use of "python:" in page templates, aren't we?
<daf> we try
<daf> I really don't like writing functions like "def thingyislessthantwo(self): return self.thingy < 2" so I can write 'tal:condition="view/thingyislessthantwo"' rather than 'tal:condition="python: view.thingy < 2"', so I don't
<daf> mmm, grammar
<SteveA> BradB: file me a bug for doing a form-o-matic helper.  include a couple of examples of what you'd want to say in tal.  it ought to be a quick job.
<BradB> quick, like you could have it working by the time i get back from lunch? :P
<BradB> i'll file it anyway.
<SteveA> now there's a challenge.
<SteveA> actually, I was planning to go and visit the gym
<SteveA> but, it really is like an hour and a half tops
<BradB> "at some point today" would be fantastic :)
<SteveA> (provided you know exactly what to do)
<SteveA> if the bug is filed with examples of what you need, I'll do it when I return from the gym
<BradB> great. i'm writing it up now.
<SteveA> cool
<carlos> SiteError Error while reporting an error to the ErrorLogging service
<carlos> X-)
<daf> I think I just hung tla when I fixed my mail
<daf> elmo: can you slay PQM, please?
<elmo> can you guys either: a) stop breaking PQM, or b) beg/bribe/beat someone into fixing PQM permanently? :P 
<daf> lifeless: (b), please
<daf> elmo: sorry, it happened because my mail queue got clogged, meaning I inadvertently sent two merge requests simultaneously when I unblocked it
<SteveA> carlos: can you mail me that please?
<SteveA> the error logging service shouldn't be able to break ;-)
* SteveA --> gym
<carlos> SteveA: sure
<BradB> dilys: are you alive?
<BradB> daf: maybe she's dead because of the Owner -> Submitted By renaming?
<dilys> BradB: not dead, just resting
<BradB> heh
<carlos> :-P
<Kinnison> gah!
<Kinnison> python lets you catch an AssertionError but then blows up anyway
* Kinnison kicks it
<dilys> New Malone bug #47: "All our bug assignments are 'NEW'", submitted by Stuart Bishop
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/47
<daf> dilys: well done, dear
<dilys> New Malone bug #48: "ZPT needs to make it easy to know if a value is "selected"in a <select>", submitted by Brad Bollenbach
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/48
<daf> nobody seems to be closing bugs yet
<lulu> night all :o)
<Kinnison> night lu
* daf unpacks the Ubuntu source code
<Kinnison> all of it?
<carlos> daf: the whole source code? :-P
<daf> yes
<Kinnison> coo
<daf> hmm, perhaps I should grab a copy of sloccount while I'm at it :)
<carlos> daf: what are you doing? learning the Ubuntu concept from its source code ? :-D
<daf> I'm going to look for bugs
<daf> make sure everybody is using apostrophes correctly
<daf> hmm, should have made it sort the packages by name before unpacking them
<carlos> :-?
<daf> proper punctuation is vital to the viability of the distribution
<carlos> but what are you reviewing? the package descriptions?
<daf> I'm joking :)
<daf> I'm actually trying to count the number of messages in Ubuntu
* carlos thought that daf was getting mad...
<carlos> :-P
<daf> oh, this is a 4 processor machine -- should have made the unpack script multi-threaded, too
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: prep for malone debsync (patch-788)
<carlos> daf: ping
<daf> pong
<carlos> daf: do you remember? :
<carlos> #~ msgid "%d unread"
<carlos> #~ msgid_plural "%d unread"
<carlos> #~ msgstr[0]  "%d no llegit"
<carlos> #~ msgstr[1]  "%d no llegits"
<daf> mmm, no
<carlos> I'm not sure if I broke it with the table split or we didn't fixed it
<carlos> the msgid == msigid_plural
<daf> oh
<carlos> at this moment the database does not supports it
<daf> no?
* carlos was taking some times importing po/pot files
<carlos> daf: no, because a unique key
<daf> on?
<carlos> psycopg.IntegrityError: ERROR:  duplicate key violates unique constraint "pomsgidsighting_potmsgset_key"
<carlos> "pomsgidsighting_potmsgset_key" unique, btree (potmsgset, pomsgid)
<carlos> a pomsgidsighting cannot have the same potmsgset and pomsgid 
<daf> is fixing it as simple as removing that constraint?
<carlos> yep
<daf> "cannot have the same potmsgset and pomsgid"?
<carlos> I think we agree already on that, that's why I'm not sure if I reintroduced the error
<daf> I'm having trouble visualising the problem in terms of the database
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> at this moment, a msgid can only be sighted in a potmsgset once per pofile/potfile
<carlos> that's normal
<carlos> the problem comes when the pluralform uses the same msgid than the singular form
<daf> so: one potmsgset, two sightings, one msgid?
<carlos> yes
<daf> ah, ok
<daf> yeah, that constraint is bogus
<daf> please file a DB change request
<daf> also, did somebody file a schema request for Person.language?
<BradB> daf: if it's not in pending, no.
<carlos> daf: no, I was wainting for the ok for my patch before doing it
<daf> do I need to review something?
<carlos> daf: just agree on the proposal patch or just believe in my skills :-P
<daf> I do believe in them :)
<daf> if you think it's correct, I don't think you should wait for me :)
<carlos> ok
<carlos> daf: could we use triggers in launchpad?
<daf> I don't know, what are they?
<carlos> code executed inside postgres
<carlos> like events
<carlos> to do some task or apply some restrictions
<daf> ok
<daf> what would we use them for?
<carlos> Thinking again about the msgid == msgid_plural thing I don't think we just remove the unique restriction
<carlos> removing it we could end with a duplicated msgid
<carlos> if we have an error in our code
<carlos> not sure if we should care
<daf> well
<daf> if you can come up with a test that always allows correct date and disallows bad data, I'm all for it :)
<carlos> is anything "always" doable? :-P
<daf> well, within reason
<carlos> daf: ;-)
<carlos> BradB: which one is the page about the database changes request?, I don't see it linked from Launchpad wiki page
<BradB> DatabaseSchemaChanges
<BradB> It's linked from the same place that describes Python style guidelines, how to write unit tests, etc.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> thanks
* SteveA returns
<BradB> woo!
<carlos> daf: patchs ready to be processed by stub
<carlos> daf: about the language field in the Person table... I think we will need to add an encoding (inside the language table) for every language if we are going to send localized mails, not sure if UTF-8 will work always, evolution breaks other mailers when sends utf-8 mails
<BradB> SteveA: I'm not sure if I produced a good syntax or not for what I want, but for TALES adapter syntax, I have no idea how to say those in English (i.e. TALES adapter semantics are entirely non-obvious to me), so I'm not the one to decide what a good syntax may be using that.
<daf> carlos: hmm, I thought it was fairly well-supported these days
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Added two db patches from Rosetta team (patch-789)
<carlos> daf: firebird (or whatever it's called now) has problems
<carlos> and it's not too old
<carlos> if it's not a firebird problem, it's an evolution one...
<daf> hmm, I count 77576 messages in Ubuntu, more or less
<carlos> only that?
<Kinnison> is that all?
<daf> yeah, that's what I thought
<daf> the biggest one is Evolution
<daf> which has 4170 to itself
<carlos> about 27729 are from GNOME 2.8
<daf> closely followed by 3905 in Gnumeric
<carlos> only official GNOME 2.8 modules
<daf> carlos: yep
<daf> which includes Evo, but not Gnumeric
<carlos> hmm, then it makes sense
<carlos> right
<daf> top 10:
<daf> evolution-2.0.2/po/evolution-2.0.pot: 4170
<daf> gnumeric-1.2.13/po/gnumeric.pot: 3905
<daf> binutils-2.14.90.0.7/gas/po/gas.pot: 2487
<daf> gaim-1.0.0/po/gaim.pot: 2213
<daf> gimp-2.0.2/po/gimp20.pot: 2198
<daf> dia-0.93/po/dia.pot: 1654
<daf> nautilus-2.8.1/po/nautilus.pot: 1361
<daf> gnome-applets-2.8.1/po/gnome-applets-2.0.pot: 1346
<daf> xfsprogs-2.6.18/po/xfsprogs.pot: 1298
<daf> glade-2-2.6.0/po/glade-2.0.pot: 1245
<carlos> gas?, a compiler has 2487 strings?
<carlos> wow
<daf> Evolution is "only" a mail client :)
<carlos> daf: ;-)
<Kinnison> daf: Lies
<carlos> but evolution has a big UI
<carlos> gas is... just a compiler
<Kinnison> assembler
<daf> it has lots of error messages :)
<daf> and not many interpolations, by the looks of it
* daf wonders where gcc is
<daf> oh!
* daf curses non-pristine .orig.tar.gzs
<daf> tarballs within tarballs
<daf> perhaps I should try running "./debian/rules unpack" in each source directory
<Kinnison> Heh
<carlos> daf: ;-)
<elmo> daf: for total coverage, I'd manually extract *.tar.{.gz,bz2}
<elmo> (like, any, under the source tree)
* daf watches hundreds of "make: *** No rule to make target `unpack'.  Stop." scroll by
<daf> elmo: that's an idea
<daf> elmo: I only need an estimate
<carlos> daf: with cdbs packages you can use: ./debian/rules apply-patches
<carlos> that should do the work
<daf> ah, thanks
<daf> elmo: hmm, can I have cdbs on rookery?
<elmo> gar
<carlos> :-P
<SteveA> elmo: can I have cddb on maquarie?
* elmo makes hex signs at cdbs freaks
<elmo> SteveA: err, seriously?
<daf> elmo: yeah, it sucks :(
<daf> SteveA: is Launhpad gaining another application?
<SteveA> yeah, the new part of launchpad to index cds belonging to the free software community
<elmo> come again?
<carlos> lol
<BradB> gullible ain't just a river in egypt
<daf> elmo: could I also have dpatch and gnome-pkg-tools?
<elmo> adfgui;aigy3487ty34278tyh4ui
<carlos> daf: I'm not sure, but I think you can get all that with chroot + fakeroot + debootstrap, right?
<daf> carlos: I'm sure I could
<daf> -bash: debootstrap: command not found
<carlos> X-)
<elmo> more to the point debootstrap requires root
<elmo> daf: done
<daf> elmo: thanks
<elmo> let me know when you're done, I don't want to leave this stuff on here
<carlos> elmo: fakeroot is not enough?
<elmo> no, chroot(2) requires root
<carlos> ok
<daf> there must be a better way of doing this
<elmo> daf: there isn't - we should enforce a policy defined way of getting at the source, it's silly that we don't
<daf> I guess an improved package source format would fix it
<SteveA> the xml intermediate format we discussed?
<daf> or... Unpack-Depends! :)
<SteveA> so you can extract stuff on a different machine?
<daf> this wouldn't contain the binary date, would it?
<daf> * data
<carlos> SteveA: do you think launchpad's foaf could be interested on info about people contributions to free software projects?, Some friends are working on tools to extract that information and show some stats from that: http://devel.interactors.coop/projects/cvsanaly/ I think it could be easy to integrate into launchpad
<daf> elmo: I suspect your unpack-all-tarballs method would probably have been good enough, actually
<SteveA> carlos: the project is called "cvs analy" ?
<SteveA> the arch folks would appreciate that
<carlos> sabdfl: yeah
<carlos> sabdfl: they started with cvs and are moving now to subversion
<SteveA> I'm steve!
<carlos> upps
<SteveA> looks interesting though
<carlos> tab autocompletion...
<carlos> you know
<carlos> :-P
<SteveA> BradB: I'm reading through the malone bug now
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> while eating evening meal
<SteveA> what does "dinner" mean in canadian english?
<sabdfl> carlos: yes, that would be cool
<BradB> SteveA: supper, "tea", :P
<SteveA> not lunch then?
<BradB> correct
* BradB fixes broken tests so bug listing search interface can be checked in
<SteveA> a way of saying <pre>some code or traceback</pre> would be really useful for malone
<BradB> yeah, hm
<BradB> formatting messages is kind of hard
<BradB> maybe we could forcefeed ReST to Malone users, i dunno
<SteveA> the zope2 collector developers tried various different things
<SteveA> structured text was a total failure
<SteveA> ReST was deemed too complex
<BradB> yes, i would have to agree
<SteveA> we ended up with a rule that leading ., " " or ">" in a block makes it preformatted
<SteveA> I say "we" but I only mean "we" as a user of the system
<carlos> sabdfl, SteveA: The website with sample data seems to be down, I will send you an url to see the kind of data they are collecting when it's fixed.
<carlos> dinner time, later!
<sabdfl> if __getattr__ exists, is it always used, or only if the attribute does not exist?
<Kinnison> only if the attr is not present
<Kinnison> (says he by empirical test)
<Kinnison> http://rafb.net/paste/results/7QwD1H42.html
<daf> 87866
<daf> gcc now at top
<BradB> sabdfl: Any chance we can get someone (e.g. Steve :P) to fix the diff'ing to account for eliding in page tests? It's probably costing two to three hours per day right now among us.
<BradB> s/the diff'ing/the diff output for failures/
<sabdfl> BradB: stub or stevea was saying they had a planned solution for that. or was it you?
<BradB> I haven't mentioned anything about solving it. I remember SteveA saying something about it before, I think. SteveA?
<sabdfl> if i have an email (import email, email.email_from_string(s) etc)
<sabdfl> how do i get the body text?
<daf> email.get_payload, IRIC
<daf> er, IIRC
<sabdfl> merci
<sabdfl> erc
<sabdfl> gracias
<daf> de nada
<daf> sabdfl: I send Adi my estimate
<daf> *sent
<sabdfl> daf: thank you
<daf> hmm, probably should have CC'd you
<sabdfl> we are going to forge ahead with a project to get warty/hoary fully translated into one indigenous SA language
<daf> excellent
<BradB> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> BradB: see comment on malone bug 48
<BradB> SteveA: did you have a solution for having functional doc tests ignore eliding when reporting diffs on failed tests?
<SteveA> no.  but I do have close access to people who maintain the code.
<SteveA> BradB: how does the syntax look to you?
<BradB> i might call it "browserform" instead of "htmlform", but...
<BradB> SteveA: one thing i've always wondered about tales adapters is, how does: request/htmlform:status/selected/all read in english?
<BradB> i can't figure out what's adapting what to what there
<BradB> ("there" meaning a tales adapter expr in general)
<SteveA> how would request/form/foo read in english?
<BradB> "the value of field foo, from form form in the request"
<SteveA> "from request traverse to form, traverse to foo"
<SteveA> let's keep it left-to-right
<BradB> SteveA: well, in "foo:bar", what does the ":" mean to foo, and to bar?
<SteveA> otherwise we'll confuse ourselves, I think
<SteveA> are you happy with "request/form/foo" put into english as "from request traverse to form, traverse to foo" ?
<BradB> as someone who's already familiar with the lingo, yeah :)
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> so, I can also read "request/form/foo" as:
<daf> Malone (or Zope) puts newlines in subjects
<daf> is this normal?
<daf> I don't think I've seen it before
<SteveA>  "from request traverse in the default namespace to 'form', traverse in the default namespace to 'foo'" 
<SteveA> BradB: still with me?
<daf> elmo: you can get rid of all the stuff you want to get rid of now, by the ay
<BradB> yes
<SteveA> so, request/htmlform:status/selected/all becomes:
<BradB> yeah, i know what you're going to say next then :)
<SteveA>  "from reqest traverse in the 'htmlform' namespace to 'status', then traverse to 'selected' in the default namespace, then traverse to 'all' in the default namespace"
<BradB> yeah, ok...interesting
<SteveA> we can add as many namespaces as we need
* BradB takes a second look
<SteveA> have you come across the foo/bar/?baz syntax before?
<BradB> no, i was *just* about to ask you about that :) i.e. is it canonical?
<SteveA> it is standard
<SteveA> you can use it in zope2, and no doubt other places where tales is implemented properly
<SteveA> it is a very simple form of indirection
<SteveA> so, foo/bar/baz means "from foo traverse to bar, traverse to baz"
<SteveA> but, foo/bar/?baz means "from foo traverse to 'bar', traverse to the value of the variable 'baz'"
<BradB> cool
<SteveA> if you want ?baz to be more complex, you need to use a separate tal:define
<BradB> in foo/bar:baz though, when you talk about "namespaces" isn't it really that foo is being adapted to a bar, and then baz is an attributed of the adapted thing?
<daf> baz:define=""?
<BradB> s/attributed/attribute/
<daf> I suppose that would stop me typing tla:define=""
<SteveA> BradB: you can look at it that way.  That is indeed how I originally looked at it.  I proposed an alternative syntax making that clearer, but ultimately was overruled.
<BradB> SteveA: the ordering suggested in your proposal won't work, btw. define is done before repeat.
<SteveA> the foo:whatever syntax is supposed to be familiar to users of xml namespaces
<SteveA> BradB: right, but simple to fix without altering the nature of the proposed syntax
<BradB> in any case, that's probably an implementation detail (the ordering of tal ops, that is)
<BradB> SteveA: indeed, indeed. so yeah, i'd say it looks good.
<SteveA> it is part of the tal standard
<SteveA> ok, cool
<BradB> ah yes, that makes it slightly clearer (i.e. the /why/ behind ":")
<SteveA> there was a separate proposal for an adapter syntax
<SteveA> for saying foo*IWhatever/bar
<SteveA> but, that hasn't been decided, and will probably remain as it is, that is, not implemented
<sabdfl> does initZopeless use the launchpad_dev db?
<sabdfl> i'm trying to create a script to run against the launchpad_dev db, using the canonical.launchpad.database objects
<sabdfl> and i'm seeing a weird result
<sabdfl> it seems as though it's not seeing records that are in the db
<sabdfl> SteveA: around? ^
<sabdfl> daf: any idea on initzopeless ^?
<daf> hmm, checking...
<sabdfl> got it
<sabdfl> yes, it uses launchpad_ftest
<daf> ah
<sabdfl> unless you LP_DBNAME=xxx ./cmd
<sabdfl> sorry, should have checked the code myself sooner
#launchpad 2004-11-27
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: add (primitive) search interface to bug listing (patch-790)
<Kinnison> night dudes
<elmo> do any of the launchpad things talk to external sites?
<lifeless> yes
<daf> I think Malone sometimes fetches data from external Bugzillas
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: set umask in cscvs builds to 022, overriding the twistd daemon default of 077 (patch-67)
<stub> Note to self: Mirror your arch archived *before* kicking off the hoary upgrade
<daf> stub: I'm going to be now, but I need to know the difference between the various dogfood DBs on mawson and whether I have access to them
<daf> stub: basically, I need to import some SQL from the Rosetta Alpha database which describes some users, and I don't know which database to load it into
<daf> s/going to be/going to bed/
<stub> The production database is launchpad_dogfood
<stub> All the others are backups and tests
<daf> ok, simple enough
<daf> and do I have access?
<daf> well, either daf or launchpad will do
<stub> I'm now using createdb -E UNICODE --template=launchpad_dogfood launchpad_dogfood_2004mmdd  to backup the database before a dogfood code update, so these are a good place to get sample data
<stub> Do you have access to the launchpad user? If so, definitly. Otherwise, just try running psql -d launchpad_dogfood
<stub> My default, people should have read only accounts but that is not yet the case
<stub> I think I have createuser access if you need an account setu
<stub> It is a good idea to make a duplicate of the production database to test your script on before running it against the production database unless you are confident it won't screw up (by using createdb -E UNICODE --template=launchpad_database_20041116 daftest)
<daf> cunning
<daf> I'll do that
<daf> I'll let you know if I have any problems when I do it
<lulu> morning all :o)
<Kinnison> Morning
<SteveA> hi
<sabdfl> Kinnison: i'm working on a syncing system to sync debbugs into malone
<Kinnison> sabdfl: cool
<sabdfl> when gina creates packages, its just creating the ubuntu ones, right, not the debian ones?
<Kinnison> Yes
<sabdfl> we'll need to extend it a little, can discuss tomorrow
<Kinnison> Okay
* Kinnison is tempted to say that if we want to extend gina a lot; we may have to consider rewriting some of her to fit better with things
<sabdfl> if we have a record of both debian and ubuntu packages, then the syncer can model things more easily
<Kinnison> Yeah
<sabdfl> *however* it might get very crowded then
<sabdfl> but since malone's designed for it, we need to go down that road and figure out how to make it sexy
<Kinnison> Yeah
* Kinnison is currently writing a mini-page for us to put what we want to discuss tomorrow
<Kinnison> I'll put it on there
<Kinnison>  * Getting gina to create SourcePackage entries for the Debian packages we derive from
<Kinnison> there we go :-)
<Kinnison> https://wiki.canonical.com/WedAgenda
<Kinnison> Please add anything you can think of to there
<Kinnison> I'll add stuff as it comes to me
<Kinnison> morning cprov
* Kinnison gets workraved, brb
<cprov> Kinnison: morning
<Kinnison> SteveA: when assigning to a DateTimeCol in an SQLObject thing... What should I set it to in order to represent now + foo days?
<SteveA> I suspect you can make an appropriate datetime object
<SteveA> by taking datetime.utcnow() and adding a timedelta(days=foo)
<Kinnison> cool
<sabdfl> Kinnison: ok, i'll definitely need your help tomorrow to populate the db with debian as well as ubuntu package details
<Kinnison> sabdfl: *noted*
<sabdfl> it's about time anyway, since we need to start figuring out the derivation process
<sabdfl> how we model and represent that, etc
<Kinnison> Yeah
<Kinnison> will you put that on the agenda?
<sabdfl> done
<Kinnison> goddamnit; workrave won't leave me alone
* Kinnison turns it down
<Kinnison> is the form: 'element in list' efficient; or is it more efficient to store the list as a dict of element=>1 and do 'element in dict' ?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Simple DistroRelease bug counter (patch-791)
<SteveA> Kinnison: element in list looks through the list in sequence comparing each element using __eq__ (or __cmp__ if there is no __eq__) until it finds a match
<SteveA> element in dict or element in set uses the value of hash(element) to find a potential match, followed by __eq__.
<SteveA> for collections of 10 or more items, using a set or dict is certainly faster.  for 10s of items, it is noticibly faster.
<SteveA> for under 10, I'd use whatever notation is most convenient.
<SteveA> of course, these are just rules of thumb, and it all depends on how expensive __eq__ is for your objects.
<SteveA> but, I see no reason to store things as a dict of element->1 or ->0 or ->None when you could use a Set, and it would be clearer what you're doing.
<Kinnison> Where do I get 'Set' from then?
<SteveA> it is easy to make a set from a list:  sets.Set(mylist)
<SteveA> import sets
<SteveA> see also: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-sets.html
<Kinnison> ta
<SteveA> for information about using sets as the key of a dict
<SteveA> or sets of sets
<SteveA> should you need such things
<Kinnison> I don't need that for now :-)
* SteveA goes to rave
<Kinnison> Ultimately the construct I'm ending up with is:
<Kinnison>         for f in condemnedfiles:
<Kinnison>             if f not in livefiles:
<Kinnison>                 os.remove(f)
<Kinnison> or similar
<SteveA> why not just use sets and subtrave one from teh other?
<SteveA> then remove the lot?
<Kinnison> ooh good idea
<SteveA> see checkarchtag.py, method check_tags_dicts, for some use of sets
<SteveA> using Set(mydict.keys()) isn't strictly necessary
<Kinnison> yep; gotcha
<SteveA> but I think it is clearer
<SteveA> as a dict is iterable over its keys anyway
<Kinnison>         for f in condemnedfiles - livefiles:
<Kinnison>                 os.remove(f)
<Kinnison> ;unindents the os.remove slightly :-)
<Kinnison> gah s@;@/me@
* SteveA really raves now
<sabdfl> hmm... debbugs allows one message to go to many bugs
<sabdfl> but in malone, a message belongs to only one bug
<sabdfl> i wonder how best we should sync those
<Kinnison> each bug gets its own copy I guess
<Kinnison> like in debzilla
<sabdfl> yuck
* Kinnison grins
<sabdfl> rdbms way would be to have a mapping table from message to bug
<Kinnison> indeed
<sabdfl> but... that's quite a change
<Kinnison> assuming a message is considered immutable then that'd be fine
<Kinnison> but if you can mod a message or its attributes then you might have an issue
<sabdfl> message should be immutable
<sabdfl> or, at least, changed everywhere when changed somewhere
<sabdfl> so mappings work in that sense
<sabdfl> a bigger issue is followups
<Kinnison> Hmm
<sabdfl> do they need to automatically appear in every bug the original message appeared in...
<Kinnison> I guess when replying you could offer a choice "reply on this bug only" or "reply on every bug this comment is attached to"
* Kinnison adds "daniel holiday plans" to the agenda for tomorrow
<Kinnison> SteveA: what time is the launchpad meeting tomorrow?
<Kinnison> Did someone do a new dogfood deployment last night?
<SteveA> 12:30 UTC
<sabdfl> SteveA: if i'm writing a script with initZopeless, do i need to do anything to get transactions committed?
<SteveA> sabdfl: not sure.  when you call initZopeless(), you get a transaction manager.  So, transactionmanager = initZopeless(), at the start, and transactionmanager.commit() at the end, I would say
<sabdfl> works a treat, thanks :-)
<SteveA> carlos, daf: can you update the main template that rosetta uses to include the login and logout links, as in the standard main template?
<carlos> SteveA: ok, looking at it
<Kinnison> Noone is owning up to redeploying dogfood last night?
<Kinnison> Well; whoever did should have restarted the librarian :-)
* Kinnison has done so now
<SteveA> carlos: there's still an 'idaf.py'.  can you get rid of it please?
<carlos> SteveA: sure
<carlos> SteveA: did you saw my question about the main template?
<SteveA> no, I didn't
<carlos> <carlos> SteveA: but we are already using the main template login
<carlos> <carlos> SteveA: I only see a link to rosetta/+login that could be removed
<SteveA> if you look at the main template (main-template.pt I think), you'll see that it has some logic to show a "logout" link if someone is logged in, and a "login" link otherwise.
<carlos> SteveA: I saw it, I fixed the rosetta/+login to show it only when you are logged in
<carlos> but the login/logout links comes from that main template
<carlos> I mean, we have an extra login link
<carlos> and the common login/logout
<carlos> the login link was fixed to be showed only if you are not logged in, not sure if that's the only change you are asking
<SteveA> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta
<SteveA> it should say "login" in the blue horizontal bar
<SteveA> check the code in main-template.pt
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> it was there
<SteveA> line 117 - 129
<carlos> in fact, my local copy has it
<SteveA> diff it to what is in rocketfuel perhaps?
<carlos> I'm updating my local copy
<carlos> seems like a recent change removed it, will fix it
<SteveA> everyone, please do the following:  cd lib/canonical/launchpad/database ; grep "canonical\.launchpad\.interfaces\." *.py
<SteveA> you'll see a bunch of database code that is importing interfaces from specific interface modules, and not from canonical.launchpad.interfaces
* carlos goes to have lunch
<SteveA> would someone please volunteer to fix this up?  also, please ensure you're using only  "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces import ISomething" in all new code, and not "from canonical.launchpad.interfaces.something import ISomething"
<debonzi> SteveA, I can do that
<SteveA> thanks debonzi!
<debonzi> SteveA, no problem
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: judgeSuperceded and unpublishDeathRow correct now (patch-792)
<sabdfl> does anyone know how to do the following in SQL?
<sabdfl> i'm altering the structure of a table, from one-to-many to many-to-many
<BradB> SteveA: ping
<sabdfl> creating a new Rel table to be the glue between the two tables
<sabdfl> now i have to populate the rel table with data from the previous structure
<sabdfl> what i basically want to do is a SELECT from one of the tables, and for every resulting line, I want to INSERT into the new Rel table
<sabdfl> ?
<BradB> sabdfl: \h select into
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Interfaces import fix. Requested by SteveA. (patch-793)
<sabdfl> BradB: thanks muchly, looks like it would do the trick
<BradB> no prob
<BradB> lulu: ping
<lulu> BradB: howdy!
<BradB> hi :) hm, ul.org was being deathly slow for me for a few minutes there...seems to be a bit better now.
<lulu> BradB: yes - it does seem to oscillate :o( we are looking into optimising plone and ZEO clustering....
<BradB> indeed
<BradB> lulu: Your comment about News Items...are you asking for that to be done, or noting that It Works? NI's should already be config'd to show correctly.
<BradB> (i.e. NI's displaying like Events do...not in navtree, but in a portlet, etc.)
<elmo> does the website have any sort of query param stuff? 
<elmo> i.e. urls like www.ul.o/foo?bar=baz&moo=bat 
<BradB> yep, that's common
<BradB> i.e. for searching, for the portal status message, etc.
<BradB> s/i.e./e.g./
<BradB> why?
<elmo> I'm poking nails into my eyes^W^W^W^W^Wsetting up awstats and it wants to know
<BradB> elmo: do you have to say anything more specific about it than "Yes"?
<elmo> the chracters used, it defaults to "?" and ";"
<elmo> which should be fine, I guess?
<BradB> yes
<sabdfl> BradB: turns out CREATE TABLE, then INSERT INTO ... SELECT f
<sabdfl> worked better for me
<sabdfl> more control over table structure, primary keys etc
<BradB> ah, i was assuming you'd do a create table first even with select into, but hey, whatever worked.
<sabdfl> BradB: no, the select into actually creates the table
<sabdfl> and you don't seem to have much control over the table it creates
<sabdfl> so beter to create it, then INSERT INTO table SELECT
<BradB> ah
<sabdfl> hmm... table renaming time again
<sabdfl> bradb, what did we run into last time that made it such a pain?
<sabdfl> we had to rename all the indexes, sequences and keys
<sabdfl> anything else?
<carlos> sabdfl: all foreign keys
<sabdfl> i think the foreign keys that point at a table will be update automatically
<carlos> really?, didn't know that
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Reorganisation and clean-up of placeless auth and security. (patch-794)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Added the login/logout links to the rosetta's main template (patch-795)
<BradB> sabdfl: I don't think so. It was mainly the things you've mentioned that were a pain last time.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> am refactoring the bugmessage system to allow one message to be associated with multiple bugs
<sabdfl> and vice versa
<kiko> sabdfl, is this for things such as changing a set of bugs in the same way?
<sabdfl> kiko: yes
<sabdfl> also, allows us to model debbugs exactly, since debbugs allows this
<sabdfl> it's going to make our brains hurt on some issues though
<kiko> I see. Yeah, I thought so too.
<kiko> what does it do for debbugs, I wonder?
<kiko> we could just model it as replicated comments per bug, couldn't we?
<BradB> one message attached to multiple bugs smells bad
<BradB> particularly at this early stage
<BradB> I wouldn't recommend doing anything on Malone that doesn't push us closer to a first production release. This bugmessage change doesn't push us closer to a first production release.
<sabdfl> BradB: syncing debbugs is something i want for production, so i'm doing the work
<sabdfl> it's one of the big tools that the distro team uses
<sabdfl> they sync debbugs to bugzilla
<sabdfl> so we need to be able to sync debbugs to malone
<Kinnison> And I take it a sync to bugzilla and a malone->bugzilla watch isn't enough?
<sabdfl> Kinnison: not really, not if we want the distro team to come over to malone during the conference
<Kinnison> righty
<kiko> sabdfl, but can't we model this as just replicated comments in malone?
<sabdfl> unique rfc822msgid requirement :-)
<BradB> sabdfl: this sets the bar that much higher than for a first release, which is another way of saying it'll take longer to get it out the door.
<kiko> sabdfl, that's how bugzilla handles change-multiple comments too by the way. it allows us to add comments like "changed product from foo to bar" which you can't do with a single message per set of bugs
<BradB> SteveA: ping
<kiko> (since the set of bugs may have a different original product)
<BradB> s/than for a/then for a/
<sabdfl> BradB: i'll get it done shortly, or roll it back
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> hi brad
<kiko> sabdfl, hmmm. so because of the message-id we *need* it to be a single comment?
<BradB> SteveA: hi. any news on the selected values fix? if not, i'll continue what i'm doing now, which is to render the widgets with a schema somehow (borrowing ideas from the default-editform we have)
<BradB> maybe the schema way will be better anyway, so that i can validate, etc.
<SteveA> BradB: I'll be committing it shortly
<BradB> cool
<sabdfl> kiko: we could remove the unique msgid and copy the comment, but i'd rather just refactor correctly now
<kiko> sabdfl, hmmm. I don't think it buys us very much, just that -- myself, I'd just remove the msgid and dupe the comment, since there are many bug tracking systems out there and who knows how intensely they can vary.
<carlos> SteveA, sabdfl: could I create a interfaces/rosetta.py file to store a Rosetta specific object interface? (RosettaStats)
* carlos is killing idaf.py
<BradB> carlos: look at the names of the other files in that dir. we don't want app-specific names for those files, but rather names that hint at the domain objects they contain.
<carlos> BradB: I know, but that interface is used by Project, Product and Pofile
<carlos> hmmm, well, it's related to pofiles, perhaps it could be imported inside pofile.py
<carlos> not sure, that's why I ask :-P
<SteveA> BradB: it is done.  just about to commit.
<BradB> cool
<SteveA> so, the way it works is you can say:
<SteveA>   request/htmlform:foo/selected/value   and get 'selected' if form['foo']  == 'value' else nothing
<SteveA> you can also say:
<SteveA>   request/htmlform:foo/cheese/value   and get 'cheese' if form['foo']  == 'value' else nothing
<SteveA> so, this will work for checkboxes too, I think
<SteveA> we can constrain this behaviour later, if we can think of anything else that the htmlform: namespace should provide
<BradB> cool
<SteveA> daf: around?
<SteveA> carlos: do you know what happened with making rosetta alpha use the dogfood setup?
<BradB> SteveA: related to what I was currently trying out: if i've got a schema IFoo, and an IField in their "bar", and a view IFooView, where I can read about hooking up that schema to that view to somehow render IFoo.bar's widget in a particular place in some custom HTML?
<BradB> s/in their/in there/
<BradB> mm, i think i might have found it
<SteveA> I can't quite grasp what you're saying, so glad you've found it ;-)
<BradB> SteveA: I've defined a schema, like this:
<BradB> class IFoo(Interface):
<BradB>     bar = ...whatever field type...
<BradB> I've got a view like this:
<BradB> class IFooView(object):
<BradB>     ...some view methods...
<BradB> Now, I'm writing some HTML for something that's going to be, well, viewed.
<BradB> <html>...</html>
<BradB> somewhere inside the <html>...</html>, I want to render the widget that will collect a value for IFoo.bar.
<BradB> i don't know who to ask (i.e. which method to call on which thing) to say "render bar's widget here -->"
<SteveA> not really IFooView(object)
<SteveA> probably just FooView
<SteveA> there's something in zope.app.forms (or somewhere like that) to do what you want.
<BradB> er, yeah, sorry, but anyway, same conceptual brick wall
<SteveA> I can look it up for you in a bit.  I need to go and get lunch RSN
<BradB> i'm looking at the edit.pt now. <div metal:use-macro="context/@@form_macros/widget_rows" /> does all the magic, but i have no idea what context is.
<SteveA> I was thinking of something at a lower level than that
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Implemented request/htmlform:fieldname/selected/?value for tales. (patch-796)
<SteveA> BradB: can you try out what dilys was just talking about?
<BradB> sure
* BradB tla undoes
<carlos> SteveA: last notice about it was that daf was waiting for stub to import the users
<SteveA> what about importing the pofiles ?
<carlos> SteveA: same thing
<carlos> SteveA: daf don't know where should it be imported
<carlos> he was waiting for stub to know the database and the procedure to do the import
<lulu> night all :o)
<debonzi> lulu, night
<carlos> SteveA: not sure if it's related to your latest changes to test_on_merge.py but the current output is really hard to read
<carlos> it "eats" the new line char
<BradB> SteveA: where can i read about how to use your tales thing? e.g. i want to know how to call it when my value is in a variable (which will be the 99%-of-the-time common case)
<carlos> BradB: https://wiki.canonical.com/ZopePageTemplates
<carlos> I think we should move the document from lalo's server to our wiki or it will be lost...
<BradB> carlos: i'm referring to the change steve just checked in to provide a little adapter to make it not-insane to highlight "selected" values in, for example, search forms
<carlos> ooh, ok O:-)
<carlos> sabdfl: ping
<daf> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> BradB: what do you need to know?
<SteveA> carlos: I think I can fix that
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> daf: how is the "rosetta alpha on dogfood system" going?
<BradB> how to pass a "value" to your tales adapter stuff when "value" is a variable containing the value (which is the 99%-of-the-time common case)
<carlos> SteveA: I sent the complete log to launchpad's mailing list
<daf> SteveA: I'm just about to do the user import
<SteveA> BradB: you use the ? notation we discussed yesterday
<SteveA> this is not specific to what I have done, but rather a generic tales thing.
<SteveA> so, request/htmlform:fieldname/selected/?value
<BradB> yeah, tried that already
<SteveA> and what happened?
<BradB> i'll do it again to give you the exact err msg
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> SteveA: I have a doubt before I could kill idaf.py
<carlos> SteveA: there is the RosettaProject class
<carlos> that seems like you did it to have a demo about "decorations"
<carlos> hmm, IRosettaProject interface more than a class
<carlos> and then, we have a lib/canonical/rosetta/domain.py file that implements it
<BradB> SteveA: http://paste.husk.org/2029 raw copy and paste of the tales, and the entire exception
<SteveA> IRosettaProject can still go in interfaces, regardless of what else we decide to do what that code.
<carlos> SteveA: where?
<carlos> project.py, pofile.py or a new rosetta.py?
<SteveA> project, I suppose
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> BradB: that's an interesting error.
<SteveA> BradB: I'm looking into it now
<BradB> ok, thanks
<SteveA> the tales code is behaving in an odd way in this case
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: First implementation of DistroRelease Bugs Page. (patch-797)
<SteveA> BradB: I have worked around the issue I just chatted to Jim about
<BradB> ok
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Killed idaf.py (patch-798)
<carlos> BradB: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/createdby?owner=name98 gives me an exception
<carlos> I think because owner should be an integer instad of "name98"
<carlos> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): createdby
<BradB> carlos: that part of malone 1. isn't well-tested (in fact, it may not be tested at all) but 2. that's ok, because it's going away soon.
<carlos> ok
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Work around bug in tales and traversal. (patch-799)
<SteveA> BradB: care to try again?
<BradB> yep, just waiting on tla
<BradB> carlos: Dude, I'm amazed that your friends named their project "CVSAnalY".
<BradB> "It has a web interface - called CVSAnalYweb - where the results can be retrieved and analized in an easy way."
<lifeless> BradB: what is tla making you wait on?
<BradB> lifeless: tla undo took 10 minutes. then tla star-merge.
<lifeless> garh. macos right ?
<BradB> os x, yes.
* lifeless wonders about your inode cache cache
<lifeless> bsds have al these wonderful knobs, if you take the time to find them.
<kiko> there's an inode cache cache?
<BradB> lifeless: almost surely not. the problem is an implementation that depends on thousands of small files. this is extremely slow on linux too (when put side-by-side something like svn or cvs), but only magnified on HFS+.
<lifeless> BradB: its sluggish on linux because it stats 3* over what it needs to.
<lifeless> I can diff a full kernel tree here in 10-14 seconds, with optimised code I expect that to be 5-7 seconds.
<lifeless> Now, I'm happy to have a debate about whether the small files are the real killer or not ... but I assure you, regardless, that performance will be improved.
<BradB> lifeless: i don't think a full kernel has anything near what a revision library has in it, in terms of sheer number of small files.
<lifeless> in a rev library, only 1 revision is hit to do tla changes, and at most 2 to do tla star-merge.
<BradB> lifeless: are you sure about that? if so, why do i see output like:
<BradB> * patching for this revision (rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-799)
<BradB> * patching for revision rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-797
<BradB> * patching for revision rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-798
<BradB> * patching for revision rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-799
<BradB> ...
<BradB> that looks like N versions being hit
<BradB> well, N revisions of a version
<lifeless> thats building a basis tree. In that case, its 1 hit to get the basis, a hardlink tree build to get the new one, then N patch applications.
<lifeless> In the incoming queue for baz, we increase patch application speed hugely, by caching relevant data between patches.
<lifeless> but yes, when a reference needs to be built, it does have more work to do.
<daf> gaah, revision library corruption
<lifeless> daf: holy cow batman. Any idea what caused it? (Are you using hardlinked trees?)
<daf> lifeless: no, and yes
<lifeless> if you use hardlink trees, use the userspace COW library
<daf> baz doesn't tell me which files are corrupted
<daf> what userspace COW library?
<lifeless> yah, you probably need to nuke that particular project from the tree
<daf> COW is what I need
<lifeless> fl-cow
<lifeless> http://xmailserver.org/flcow.html
<lifeless> bah, project from the revlib
<lifeless> its in debian too, I think.
<sabdfl> lifeless: morning!
<lifeless> morning
<sabdfl> BradB: nearly done with that refacotr on bugmessage
<BradB> cool
<sabdfl> good news, we can use the messages for all sorts of other things as well now
<BradB> like assignments and infestations?
<daf> lifeless: cunning!
<sabdfl> and bounties, and todo assignments...
<daf> lifeless: it would be nice to know what's causing the corruption, though
<lifeless> daf: right, its something that didn't break the link before modifying.
<daf> lifeless: and I don't see it in Debian -- if it's useful, I might ITP
<BradB> sabdfl: is it possible to get someone to fix page test diff output, and to implement a browser:form directive?
<daf> lifeless: yeah, I know, but I don't remember using anything that doesn't unlink-on-write
<lifeless> know culprits include autoconf, vim without the 'set backcopy=no' option.
<daf> hmm, not autoconf -- this is Launchpad
<sabdfl> daf: go ahead and upload to ubuntu, anyhow
<daf> sabdfl: ok
<daf> well, nuking the last 10 revisions from the revlib fixed it
* lifeless goes into grinstone mode
<kiko> BradB, need some help? "someone"?
<BradB> kiko: "someone" as in "on billable time" :)
<kiko> hey, use salgado
<BradB> kiko: these two bugs are costing more to not have than to create, i think.
<sabdfl> BradB: again, i thought stevea / stub had a plan for both
<sabdfl> if you have a better plan, holler
<sabdfl> kiko: is salgado not beavering away at the karma problem?
<BradB> sabdfl: are you saying yes, they can go ahead and fix that stuff though? i already asked SteveA, but there were no specific plans.
<sabdfl> "they"?
<BradB> sabdfl: well, say, SteveA if he's up for it. :)
<sabdfl> sure
<kiko> sabdfl, yes, he's got a foothold on the foaf bits, but if it's urgent I can always assign him to help bradb.
<SteveA> BradB: the form directive is next on my big project list after getting ftp working for james.
<SteveA> the tales expression stuff should help you out until then.
<BradB> i'm trying it now
<SteveA> there is a concrete plan for the context stuff
<SteveA> which is next on the list after that
<BradB> absolute url, you mean?
<sabdfl> kiko: no, i'd prefer salgado to get cracking on the karma problem
<sabdfl> it's not a big job, the foundations should be laid by es-conf so we can just set policy
<kiko> okay.
<sabdfl> kiko: let's switch to private chat, spec out the karma stuff there for him
<SteveA> be nice if someone can look into page test output
<SteveA> as to make it deal with ... in diffs nicely
<SteveA> I'm not sure exactly what would be involved, though
<BradB> maybe stub could do that if sabdfl/stub agree. stub seems to have the second most Zope 3 core dev experience among LP'ers.
<SteveA> cprov: what are you up to at the moment?
<SteveA> this isn't a thing that requires lots of zope3 ken
<SteveA> it is more about text processing
<sabdfl> guys, i'm concerned that the pace of commits is dropping off
<sabdfl> except for bradb and stub
<carlos> BradB: they have another tool with the word "rumps" in Spanish ;-)
<sabdfl> es-conf is where we have to prove to the distro team we can deliver god tools for them
<cprov> SteveA: working on soyuz/people and  related permission issues
<SteveA> do you have time for a small project to improve the output of failing pagetests?
<cprov> SteveA: yep
<SteveA> great.  do you know what needs to be done?
<cprov> SteveA: no, please explain 
<BradB> SteveA: http://paste.husk.org/2030 # another raw copy and paste of what may be a problem with the "selected" adapter.
<BradB> well, htmlform adapter, that is.
<SteveA> cprov: when you have a pagetest that fails, and that pagetest includes various use of ... to say "match whatever here", then the diff you get is hard to read
<SteveA> cprov: it is hard to read because it is a diff of what is produced against literally what is in the page test text file
<SteveA> cprov: so, it includes lots of lines starting with "+" where you have ... in the text of the page test
<SteveA> what it should do is to take account of the ..., so that you don't have spurious +s
<cprov> SteveA: I see
<SteveA> the way I'd approach the problem is to make a couple of page tests
<SteveA> that fail, but use ...
<SteveA> and then to work on improving the output for these
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: dynamic contruction of soyuz/people pages (patch-800)
<cprov> SteveA: do you have any idea about what should be a "better output" for it ? 
<SteveA> not really.  you'll have to experiment a bit
<BradB> cprov: one of the keys is that stuff like
<BradB> -...
<BradB> +foo
<BradB> +bar
<BradB> +baz
<BradB> shouldn't show.
<BradB> i.e. if the *only* "expected" was an elision, that's just a decoy, ignore it.
<cprov> SteveA: BradB: I'll try something in that way this night, offline, then tomorrow morning I can show you something, ok ?
<sabdfl> patch-800 :-)
<BradB> cprov: sure, that'd be great
<SteveA> cprov: that's great.  thank you
* SteveA finds the subtle bug in teh zope3 ftp implementation!
<sabdfl> SteveA: is that for our upload system?
<BradB> sabdfl: speaking of messages being used everywhere, i can already see that we need to be able to not only add a "note" field on assignments and infestations (which i mentioned mdz having mentioned before), but we want to be able to do that on every change we make on an assignment or infestation. e.g. i'm marking bugs "Closed" in Malone right now, i want to explain what the final decision was on them, but i have nowhere to put tha
<BradB> t.
<cprov> so, good night, see you tomorrow
<sabdfl> bradb: that can now be a message in the main bug, that is *also* referred to by the bugassignment
<BradB> ah
<BradB> interesting
<BradB> that's a useful aggregation
<sabdfl> lifeless: what time does stub usually come on stream?
<sabdfl> yes, having separate Message's is going to be fun
<sabdfl> we can point at them from almost anywhere now
<sabdfl> :-)
<SteveA> sabdfl: yes, it is for the uploads thing that elmo wrote the policy part of
<sabdfl> SteveA: cool! looking fwd to having that capability up and running
<SteveA> now that I've found the location of this bug, I can fix it, push the fix upstream, stitch elmo's code into a stand-alone server, and give it back to elmo to hack on
<BradB> daf: when are we going to see dilys telling us bugs were fixed?
<BradB> i'm marking a bunch Closed right now, and was hoping to flood the channel
<BradB> :P
<BradB> daf: something like "$person fixed bug #$id "foo doesn't work"' would be dandy
<BradB> s/id/id:/
<BradB> ooo, $person isn't quite simple yet, but anyway
<lifeless> sabdfl: not sure, sorry.
<sabdfl> lifeless: call time?
<lifeless> Just going into an arch team meeting. 30 minutes would be better.
<sabdfl> lifeless: ok
<BradB> SteveA: did you take a look at that error i'm now getting on your new version of the tales patch?
<SteveA> BradB: what kind of object is term in ?term  ?
* daf out for an hour or two
<BradB> SteveA: ah, good point, it's not what i meant to put in there. /me makes a slight mod and tries again.
<SteveA> but, I guess I could coerce the object to be a string or something just in case
<SteveA> that would give you a more reasonable error I expect
<sabdfl> whoot! message refactor passes all tests
<sabdfl> just waiting for stub to approve the db changes
<lifeless> sabdfl: ring me now please
<sabdfl> what's the way to specify the starting contents of a text input?
<sabdfl> value="xxx" doesn't work
<sabdfl> lifeless: pick up ;-)
<BradB> sabdfl: write it in the textarea, i think
<BradB> (i presume you meant a textarea)
<BradB> sabdfl: did you intentionally remove the comment widgets, btw?
#launchpad 2004-11-28
<sabdfl> BradB: text, not textarea
<BradB> sabdfl: i dunno then, because value="" should work fine
<sabdfl> <b>Title:</b>                         <input name="field.title"     type="text" size="50" value="Re: Reproduced on AIX" />
<sabdfl> not working
<BradB> sabdfl: when you view source, are you seeing the value="blah"?
<BradB> it works fine for me
<sabdfl> yes, as above
<sabdfl> it might be the collapsing fieldset that causes it
<BradB> SteveA: ping
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: fix default branch enabled changeste creation to merge changsets correctly, and disable aliased cvs repositories temporarily (patch-38)
<sabdfl> still no stub!
<lifeless> stubless
<BradB> SteveA: two things about your tales fix: 1. it breaks when value is an int, 2. it doesn't handle multiple selects (which was the hard-part of trying to shoehorn this in by-hand in tales)
<lifeless> :)
<SteveA> BradB: please add to the malone bug the behaviour you want from multiple selects
<SteveA> making it handle ints is easy enough
<SteveA> I guess you'd want it to behave nicely in the presence of a sequence object -- that is, match on any element of the sequence
<BradB> SteveA: the bug already mentions that this thing should highlight the zero, one, or more values selected.
<BradB> well, more specifically "When a user selects one or more of these values, submits the form, and then it's rerendered, I want the values the user selected to be shown as, well, selected in this widget."
<SteveA> what does the query part of the URL look like in this case? 
<SteveA> or, more to the point, what does request.form look like?
<BradB> SteveA: in short: request/htmlform:foo/selected/?value should return True whenever value is a selected value of that field. naturally, for multiple selects that could happen more than once on the same field.
<SteveA> so, what would you do in python code?
<BradB> SteveA: i'm not writing any python code here, so nothing.
<BradB> but for request['foo']  where foo is a multiple select, it might be a single value, or a list, depending on how many values are selected.
<Kinnison> nighty
<SteveA> BradB: okay, looks like I have some code
<sabdfl> phwoar
<BradB> SteveA: i can't access this functional with python: either eh? i'm needing that right about now.
<BradB> s/functional/functionality/
<SteveA> BradB: in your email
<SteveA> should be faster than tla
<BradB> heh
<sabdfl> night all
<BradB> see ya tomorrow sabdfl 
<sabdfl> BradB: and tomorrow, you'll also see how malone performs with 200,000 bugs in the db :-)
<sabdfl> kthnxbye
<BradB> hehe, cool
<SteveA> how's the new code look, brad?
<BradB> i'll try it in about 3 minutes, just finishing the another change on these search widgets
<BradB> ok, applying now
<BradB> er, i have to commit my current changes anyway, i guess, otherwise my diff's get all screwed up
<SteveA> not really
<SteveA> I mean, I haven't committed this
<BradB> ah, ok
<SteveA> it is just a few lines of code to one module
<BradB> you want me to commit it then? (even still i'll have to first commit my current changes anyway)
<SteveA> if it works, yes
<BradB> ok
<BradB> it'll take about 15 mins, at least, unfortunately
<SteveA> oh?
<BradB> by the time i commit these current changes, patch, and get around to testing it
<SteveA> can't you just apply the patch, and test it now?
<BradB> (and, of course, i run make check before committing, because there's no point doing a commit where all the tests don't pass)
<SteveA> who cares if it is in your own archive?
<SteveA> of course, make check before submitting a merge to pqm
<BradB> SteveA: because it removes the self-containedness of a patch
<SteveA> but before every commit of your own?  sounds a little sadistic to me.  
<SteveA> I'd suggest running a subset of the tests that reflect what you've been working on
<BradB> SteveA: as opposed to "oh, grab patch-55 where i added that...oh and patch-57 where i fixed what patch-55 broke)
<SteveA> the thing is, I need to go to bed very soon, and I'd like to be able to help you out with any problems the code causes you
<BradB> ok, i'll patch now, and commit these two things at once
<SteveA> thanks -- practicality sometimes beats purity ;-)
<BradB> seems to work. doing a bit more testing.
<BradB> yeah, it seems to work.
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> mail me about any problems, or file them in malone, and I'll look at it tomorrow
<BradB> sure, thanks a lot
<dilys> daf: event: product assignment edited
<dilys> Malone bug #11 closed for package malone: Correct from & errors addresses
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/11
<dilys> Malone bug #9 closed for package malone: What is an "Owner" of a bug?
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/9
<dilys> Malone bug #9 closed for package malone: What is an "Owner" of a bug?
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/9
<dilys> Malone bug #8 closed for package malone: Title *and* summary *and* Description is too much
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/8
<dilys> Malone bug #13 closed for package malone: Comment incorrectly credited to "(none)"
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/13
<dilys> Malone bug #14 closed for package malone: Bug submitter should be automatically subscribed to bug
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/14
<dilys> Malone bug #15 closed for package malone: Title field on bug add form needs to be widened
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/15
<dilys> Malone bug #30 closed for package malone: Comment textarea needs to be larger
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/30
<dilys> Malone bug #33 closed for package malone: Bug subject line should include bug number
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/33
<BradB> does that mean it works? :P
<daf> I think so
<BradB> what's with that first line? daf: event: ...
<daf> that was some debugging stuff I forgot to remove :)
<BradB> ah, heh
<dilys> Malone bug #35 closed for package malone: Person dropdown should be shortened
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/35
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: mostly bug search-related fixes (patch-801)
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar-debian--debian--1.1: branch to the 1.1 version (patch-1)
<sabdfl|away> anybody know where stub is?
<lulu> morning all :o)
<stub> sabdfl: ping
<ddaa> heya people, i'm making *.pyc files in launchpad junk.
<ddaa> Since it's cache data and it's transparently generated, junk is the right category.
<ddaa> s/category/class/
<Kinnison> seems reasonable to me
<stub> Sounds sane. Occasionally people distribute proprietary code as .pyc files, but I doubt we would be touching junk like that.
<ddaa> stub: you see, that's even the term you use naturally ;-)
<ddaa> Actually, there is a use case for me when I'm trynig to clean up stuff when changing python version on the same source tree.
<ddaa> I need to figure out the important compiled stuff that's here.
<Kinnison> Heh
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I'm ready when you are.
<sabdfl> ok
* ddaa does the same to zope
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: junk *.pyc (patch-802)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: junk *.pyc (patch-68)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/pyarch--devel--0.5: junk *.pyc and *.pyo (patch-53)
<ddaa> stub: who is authorised to merge to zope and sqlobject?
<stub> Just lifeless I believe
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlos--test--3.0: junk *.pyc and *.pyo (patch-4)
<ddaa> Ha, looks like he forgot to lock that one down :-)
<ddaa> lifeless: broken taxi again.
<ddaa> ../lib/importd/Job.py:138:mirrorTarget: exceptions.TypeError, importVersion() takes exactly 4 arguments (3 given)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Database schema and sample data updates (patch-803)
<carlos> morning
<debonzi> carlos, morning
<cprov> carlos: morning, how to run a page test individually in our current tree ? I mean, do you know where is the "pagetest" app refered on pagetests/README ?
<carlos> cprov: I don't have any idea, I'm having problems with the tests (as I said yesterday by mail)
<cprov> carlos: me too :(
<SteveA> cprov: I think that's "science fiction"
<SteveA> can you write such a script?
<cprov> SteveA: I think yes .. test on page per shoot should be useful, isn't it ?
<SteveA> well...
<SteveA> you'd specify one page, or perhaps a story and page
<SteveA> if it is just one page, you get just that page
<SteveA> if you say a story and a page, you get the story up to that page.
<cprov> SteveA: I see, the group of pagetests, the story, might be more useful in real cases, just as is described in that README, that "pagetest" is the solution, why did you say it is "science fiction" ?
<lulu> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> hello lu
<lulu> hey Stevo :o)
<lulu> SteveA: Elmo had a chat to me today about our 1.6Gig database. Apparently we need to "pack" it - and save history on a weekly basis.
<SteveA> cprov: the script to run just one pagetest might be "science fiction" -- that is, it is described well, but doesn't actually exist.
<SteveA> lulu: um... "pack it and lose history" I think
<SteveA> that is what packing actually does
<lulu> SteveA: yes, but save history for a week?
<lulu> and we could have a "button to press" to make this easy for us to do......
<SteveA> we can remove history up until one week ago, yes
<SteveA> ther is a button to press to do this
<SteveA> but, it should actually be scripted instead
<SteveA> it will be easy to script once zeo is set up
<lulu> SteveA: agreed - automated would be best.....
<SteveA> if you go to the true root of the site, using gentoo:whateverport/manage
<lulu> SteveA: yes...
<SteveA> then you can click on "control_panel" and then "database" and then choose to pack it
<SteveA> put "7" in the "number of days of history to keep" place
* lulu logs in
<SteveA> it takes a little while to process
<SteveA> once you ask it to pack
<SteveA> the site will still be running, though
<lulu> one sec....
<lulu> SteveA: done
* Kinnison raises his hand just in case we're having a meeting
<carlos> SteveA: ?
<SteveA> hello carlos
<carlos> SteveA: hi
<carlos> SteveA: do we have a meeting now?
<SteveA> oh yeah
<SteveA> I was so caught up in writing code...
<SteveA> thanks for the reminder
<SteveA> let's have a launchpad meeting
<SteveA> who is here?
* carlos is here
<cprov> SteveA: ok, backing to the main target, do you think write the famous "pagetest" is useful now, at least for my task, or not ?
* stub raises hand
<SteveA> cprov: it is a different task.
<SteveA> cprov: your main task is about making the diff output more useful.  you can do that without even running a pagetest.  Just keep a textfile of actual output and desired output with '...'s, and work on the diffing algorithm
<SteveA> cprov: I think you're here :-)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: moved tales stuff into webapp (patch-804)
<cprov> SteveA: ok, I'll  concentrate in "better output"
<SteveA> daf, debonzi, kiko, Kinnison, sabdfl ?
<stub> cprov: the 'pagetest' script could actually be quite trivial to write if you hack it. It could just call set a magic environment variable and call the main test.py. The test_pages.py script would see the environment variable and only run the specified story.
<kiko> hey SteveA
<debonzi> SteveA, 
<SteveA> BradB|away: ???
<SteveA> let's start with rosetta
<cprov> stub: maybe, I can't see it quite simple, like you ... but you might be right 
<SteveA> env vars are evil
<Kinnison> SteveA: I've just got lunch
<SteveA> carlos: how is the "get rosetta on the dogfood system" task going?
* Kinnison is chez lunchpad :-)
<carlos> SteveA: yesterday, daf imported the users into the dogfood database
<carlos> SteveA: I think the remaining task is finish the .pot/.po import from gnome-applets and gnome-panel
<carlos> and we are ready to move there
<SteveA> that is all that needs to happen before we can permanently turn off daf's rosetta alpha server?
<SteveA> what about changing the virtual hosting configuration?
<carlos> I think so, the front page seems to be ready already
<carlos> hmmm, not sure
<SteveA> when can we finish the pot/po import ?
<stub> cprov: It would work and be solid and future proof. Just ugly ;)
<carlos> SteveA: it depends on daf, so I don't know. I don't have access to the server so I cannot do anything about it
<SteveA> where is daf?  anyone know?
<carlos> don't know
<SteveA> I just asked mako to pour a bucket of icy water over daf
<SteveA> meanwhile, how is the rest of rosetta going?
<SteveA> what work has been done since last week?>
<carlos> X-)
<carlos> Some UI improvements, code cleanups and functional test rewrites to fix them (I'm on it at this moment)
<SteveA> what about getting lots more people to use rosetta?
<carlos> blocked until the dogfood movement
<SteveA> that's the big issue as soon as we have the dogfood done
<sabdfl> hi guys
<SteveA> ok.  I see no reason at all we can't have the dogfood stuff done today.  Do you carlos, daf? 
<cprov> how is the password for foo.bar@ in the default database ?
<daf> morning
<carlos> cprov: test
<cprov> carlos: thanks
<carlos> daf, sabdfl: morning
<SteveA> daf: how is the dogfood project going?  carlos says two more things to do: po imports, and virtual hosting.
<carlos> SteveA: not sure, daf?
<sabdfl> daf, carlos, any reason not to have rosetta running on dogfood today, as per stevea's question?
<daf> SteveA: I did the user import last night
<daf> so I think everything is ready
<sabdfl> greate
<SteveA> what about po imports and virtual hosting config?
<daf> everything except for those two things
<SteveA> how long do po imports take?  when can you start?
<sabdfl> are they doable today daf?
<daf> the hosting stuff is pretty easy
<SteveA> yes, you just need to make sure elmo will be available to do it for you
<daf> I'm pretty sure the imports can be done today too
<daf> I can start this morning
<daf> well, if I give elmo a diff, it should be pretty trivial
<SteveA> I'd like to see the dogfood stuff totally complete before I finish work today
<SteveA> so that I can try it out
<stub> Does this affect dogfood rollouts at all? 
<SteveA> stub: don't think so, as there is nothing extra special about rosetta at this point
<SteveA> no extra external dependencies
<SteveA> daf, carlos: can you confirm that?
<carlos> stub: are all database patches applied to the dogfood server?
<stub> All except the last one, which is being rolled out right now.
<daf> I don't think it affects the other dogfood stuff
<carlos> stub: ok
<Kinnison> Who handles the codebase updates?
<Kinnison> ''cos whoever does forgot to restart the librarian last time
<carlos> SteveA: If daf thinks it can be done, I agree
<carlos> :-)
<stub> Kinnison: That would be me
* Kinnison tsks stub :-)
<SteveA> ok.  tomorrow, I want to have a session with daf and carlos to talk about what to do next with rosetta.
<SteveA> daf, carlos: okay?  12:30 UTC?
<carlos> SteveA: it's ok for me
<daf> ok
<SteveA> as soon as the dogfood stuff is done today, you can get more people using rosetta
<carlos> it could be later if it's better for daf
<SteveA> anything else to ask / report for rosetta?
<SteveA> ok, next, malone please!
<carlos> SteveA: not rosetta specific but I will appreciate an answer to my mail about the tests
<SteveA> summary of work since last week, current activities, goals for the next week
<SteveA> carlos: ok
<carlos> thanks
<sabdfl> Bradb has made a ton of good improvements
<sabdfl> i've been working on the bug assignment and status reports
<sabdfl> i've got a big refactor of the bugmessage system waiting for stub's approval
<sabdfl> stub, check private msg's
<sabdfl> i'm also setting up the debbugs sync system
<sabdfl> we should be able to test it a little today on zhongshan
<SteveA> do we have a plan on setting up a bugzilla watch for the launchpad bugzilla?
<sabdfl> stub was to sort out auth for bug watches, or arrange for lp to not require auth from dogfood
<SteveA> stub: how it that going?
<stub> We need to implement authentication for bugwatches, which will have to be custom coded for each bugsystemtype.
<SteveA> do you think that's a big job?
<SteveA> can we get it going as a special case for our bugzilla for now?
<stub> So if someone defines a bugzilla bugsyste, they can enter the username and the password. The checkwatches.py then needs to use that to log in, and propogate the auth credentials to all bugs checked on that tracker
<stub> Coding hasn't started.
<stub> We can special case it, but most of the work is in the checkwatch cron stuff since it needs to know how o log in, and what credentials to propogate. Which involves me or whoever learning more about Bugzilla.
<kiko> stub, I've done such systems before, if you need some bugzilla help.
<sabdfl> the only tracker that requires it is our own launchpad bugzilla
<sabdfl> we could just continue to close bugs in there without watches, till the auth stuff is done
<SteveA> I guess so, as the main point is to test out the watch system,
<stub> kiko: Ta. will do.
<SteveA> so, there's no point testing out a special case
<sabdfl> we have plenty of watches that will come in from debbugs sync
<stub> sabdfl: So we won't support watches on other systems that require auth? (such as trackers that do it to stop spambots harvesting email addresses?)
<sabdfl> we will in time, i'm just saying we shouldn't think that malone is unusable for our purposes without auth support in watches
<SteveA> any thoughts on how to allow malone to accept pre-formatted text?  such as source code snippets, tracebacks, etc?
<sabdfl> none from me
<sabdfl> i have a similar issue though
<sabdfl> debbugs sync basically means bring in a ton of mail messages
<sabdfl> our message class is *sort of* like an rfc822 message
<sabdfl> but we don't distinguish between headers and body
<sabdfl> since we want email-into-malone, and debbugs sync, we need to make the Message class smarter in the way it displays those messages
<SteveA> ok, so it becomes a "sensible presentation please" issue, rather than trying to push extra structure into the database
<stub> I sketched out one possibility in the malone bug I opened on this issue.
<SteveA> number
<SteveA> ?
<SteveA> I'd like to point out something I added to TALES for page templates recently, at Brad's suggestion.
<SteveA> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/48
<stub> Bug 45
<SteveA> When you want to do selects or radio buttons or checkboxes in html forms, without using schemas and fields and widgets
<SteveA> you can use request/htmlform:form_field_name/selected/literalvalue
<SteveA> or use request/htmlform:form_field_name/selected/?variable_containing_value
<SteveA> to get the text "selected" if the form_field's value matches a particular value
<SteveA> Security:  I'm starting work on the more flexible security code today.
<SteveA> this will allow you to use different permissions for different actions on an object, and grant different people those permissions depending on their relationship to an object.
<SteveA> So, for example, a Bug's owner would get particular rights that another Person wouldn't have.
<SteveA> Also, I've been slowly moving code out of canonical.lp.  So far, most of it has ended up in canonical.launchpad.webapp
<SteveA> canonical.launchpad.webapp is for the machinery that helps to run launchpad under the hood
<SteveA> (or bonnet, for speakers of british english)
<SteveA> Anything more to talk about for malone?
<stub> sourcepacakge selection is crap and ambiguous. I need to talk to the soyuz group to see if it is fixable.
<SteveA> ok, let's talk about soyuz.
<SteveA> hello soyuz team
<Kinnison> Hello
<stub> Mainly in that there is no way to reference a unique sourcepackage except by its integer key.
<kiko> hey soyuz
<daf> SteveA: hmm, perhaps we can improve the situation for radio buttons also
<SteveA> daf: you can use "checked" instead of "selected"
<SteveA> soyuz: what's been happening?  what is currently underway?
<kiko> mainly cleanups and preparationf or dogfooding
<kiko> (and I've myself been a bit hassled taking care of contracts and travel)
<kiko> SteveA, one thing that keeps coming up is using the ZODB effectively in some soyuz features -- do we have a status update on how usable that is?
<SteveA> did salgado get any time with andrew to talk about doap?
<SteveA> kiko: I need to write up how to do that.  I can do that today, as it is a small thing.
<kiko> SteveA, thanks. 
<kiko> I speced with mark yesterday bits about karma that will be going to salgado; apart from that I don't think they spoke much.
<kiko> I need to sit down with salgado to get him up-to-speed on what should be done in terms of moving code into FOAF, I've set it down for this afternoon when he comes in (he's still in classes this month)
<SteveA> ok.  we should arrange that salgado and andrew talk on andrew's return, so that we can share the foaf and doap stuff around a bit
<SteveA> I think I said "doap" earlier when I meant "foaf"
<SteveA> any other soyuz news?  what will happen during the next week?
<SteveA> Kinnison: how is your stuff going?
<Kinnison> SteveA: I finally got to dump a load of stuff into launchpad over the past week
<Kinnison> SteveA: I'm currently chez sabdfl and we've been discussing the next phase
<Kinnison> I have some plans to rationalise Lucille's views before I get stub to integrate them
<Kinnison> I think I've made too many
<kiko> SteveA, essentially taking advantage of kinnison's lucille work and finishing off the malone and rosetta bits.
<SteveA> Kinnison: I'll throw an ftp server at elmo a bit later, btw
<Kinnison> SteveA: excellent. I'm looking forward to starting on the upload handler
* Kinnison has some notes to that effect that were made on the train this morning :-)
<SteveA> will you be working on that too?
<Kinnison> Unless someone else gets assigned to help me; assume I'll pretty much be writing anything lucille-related
<SteveA> Kinnison: okay.  I'll put it into RF then, under lucille
<Kinnison> elmo has done some work on the upload checking stuff which I will get him to give me; but I think he's mega-busy being our sysadmin so I doubt he'll have much time to help
<Kinnison> SteveA: What does it comprise? Is it just a couple of classes or is it an app or what?
<SteveA> okay/
<sabdfl> once Kinnison has uploads and archives working, the next bit is to integrate the build system to LP
<SteveA> kiko: would be nice to have some more concrete goals for the next week, just to keep me sufficiently pointy-headed ;-)
<sabdfl> Kinnison: goal is to have a fully integrated system running on dogfood by the end of es-conf
<kiko> SteveA, yeah, sorry, things have been a bit in flux for me.
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Yep I may have to ask for another pair of hands though
<cprov> SteveA: we, me and debonzi, are planning more some infrastructure improve on soyuz for this week, moving classes do launchpad/[db,zcml,browser,etc] 
<sabdfl> so i can upload a package to that, watch it build, get it published, see it in the archive
<SteveA> Kinnison: a couple of modules, depending on a very limited subset of zope3
<Kinnison> SteveA: lib/canonical/lucille/uploader/*.py then I think would be best
<sabdfl> debonzi: thanks for you help getting things into shape, i appreciate that you are always willing to take on new work!
<sabdfl> you have been great in terms of getting the code base up to spec with newer standards
<debonzi> sabdfl, thanks :)
<SteveA> Kinnison: there are hooks to do stuff when a client disconnects.  each client gets a fresh uploads directory inaccessible to other clients.
<Kinnison> SteveA: Cool; that was pretty much what elmo said
<SteveA> I need to iron a few kinks out of it, update elmo's tests, and write some minimal docs
* Kinnison nods
<SteveA> but, it basically works in my sandbox now
<Kinnison> excellent.
<Kinnison> tested with something like dput or dupload?
<SteveA> no, just plan ftp client
<SteveA> I'll leave that to you
<SteveA> There is still an iandrew.py in canonical/launchpad
<SteveA> it seems to mostly contain pyarch interfaces
* SteveA pings ddaa
<ddaa> yeah?
<ddaa> wassup?
<SteveA> be nice if these can be moved, perhaps into canonical/launchpad/interfaces/pyarch.py 
<kiko> BradB|away, SteveA: we currently can create new users via soyuz, for the record. we're wondering how auth/ will handle this, if at all?
<ddaa> SteveA: I think you should ask spiv.
<SteveA> ddaa: there's a file in launchpad called lib/canonical/launchpad/iandrew.py
<SteveA> does it look like pyarch stuff to you?
* ddaa looks
<SteveA> if so, we should move it into lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces/pyarch.py, as at least there the name of the module tells you what to expect inside it
<SteveA> kiko: it doesn't have much to do with creating new users.
<ddaa> I think it would be interesting to see what is the diff compared to lib/canonical/arch/interfaces.py
<SteveA> you can protect the ability to create new users by a particular permission
<ddaa> ha... the interfaces are not here any longer...
<kiko> SteveA, that's what I'm talking about. what are our security levels.
<ddaa> SteveA: in any case, it's massively based on the zope-interface stuff I did a while ago. 
<SteveA> right now, just permissions zope.Public and launchpad.AnyPerson.  I'll write more about that once the system is in rocketfuel.
<SteveA> ddaa: so it is all pyarch stuff?
<ddaa> I cannot be positive. I don't know what is the delta.
<ddaa> I do not even know what has become of that interface file I wrote.
<SteveA> glancing through it, would you give it a "probably mostly pyarch" ?
<SteveA> I wonder if it is even used...
<ddaa> ha... actually that _is_ the interface file I wrote I while ago.
<kiko> SteveA, thanks.
<SteveA> if it isn't even used, we should get rid of it from launchpad
<SteveA> until it is used
<ddaa> It was renamed in patch-410 on october 1st.
<ddaa> Then you should ask spiv. I have not been involved in working with that crack for something like 4 months.
<SteveA> ok, thanks ddaa
<SteveA> any other business for this launchpad meeting?
<ddaa> SteveA: it's probably "mostly pyarch", but actually I never quite understood the purpose of that interface file to start with.
<sabdfl> ddaa: i think those are the bits of buttress
<sabdfl> in other words, those are interfaces used for the system to know about all the arch tables in the db
<sabdfl> id like to know who in the arch team is repsonsible for those
<ddaa> since it's call spiv, I'd say spiv :)
<sabdfl> no
<sabdfl> when we were restructuring, we each created a file iname.py
<sabdfl> then moved classes into our own files
<sabdfl> but it doesn't mean that you knew too much about that subsystem
<ddaa> the summary of the revision when it was renamed was "Move interfaces and database classes for buttress and librarian."
<sabdfl> then the subsystem owners were supposed to move the classes to interfaces/*.py and database/*.py
<sabdfl> as i understand it you are the owner of the buttress system, right?
<sabdfl> arch-in-launchpad?
<ddaa> I do not think so. All I did was writing the arch/interfaces.py file a while ago.
<ddaa> I should be taking ownership of buildbot in the next weeks.
<ddaa> Frankly I have no idea of the current scope of buttress.
<ddaa> How urgent is determining the fate of this file?
<sabdfl> this is why buttress is lying in pieces on the floor then
<sabdfl> nobody has ownership
<kiko> yeah, I asked about this a while back and nobody was in charge then either.
<sabdfl> hi BradB
<BradB> hi
<sabdfl> we have 4 arch people on the team, one of them will have to take on buttress
<SteveA> hello brad.  can you skip through the log of the meeting, and see if you need to add anything?
<BradB> argh, sorry, i forgot :(
<BradB> will definitely catch up though
* ddaa greps through the code
<BradB> SteveA: A few to things I would add are:
<BradB> I'm planning on doing three things today: 1. setting default search criteria, based on the person looking at the page
<BradB> This means we need to get everyone setup properly as maintainers of their respective products, or they won't see anything by default.
<BradB> 2. Bug paging.
<BradB> 3. Smarter notification, namely Cc'ing assignees automatically.
<BradB> Secondly, that for the code formatting, maybe we could do as I've seen other sites do and break the rules a bit and use <code></code> for multi-line code/traceback snippets (even though the spec says it's meant for partial-line snippets, it might be the most natural thing to use in our case for multi-line)
<BradB> sabdfl, SteveA, whomever: What do you think?
<SteveA> how does the message presentation tell when to use <code> </code> around something?
<ddaa> sabdfl: this stuff is used mainly in the (largely useless) arch/broker.py module
<SteveA> or do you mean that a person includes that?
<BradB> SteveA: the user puts it in there. we might have a little note saying "put <code></code> around code snippets" to somehow make it obvious.
<ddaa> And also in some places in the new database stuff and in cscvs
<ddaa> Probably, you should also ask "what about arch.broker".
<SteveA> BradB: as we'll be drawing stuff in from other bug tracking systems, I think we'll need to have some heuristics that understand how these things work in such other systems.
<SteveA> <code> </code> could be one such heuristi
<sabdfl> ddaa: what is arch.broker?
<sabdfl> BradB: i think we need to chat a bit about the reporting pages
<sabdfl> BradB: we seem to have different ideas of how the system is likely to be used
<ddaa> Something lifeless had bob2 to write during the last arch sprint, when we were trying to work around the missing database interface.
<sabdfl> i definitely think a paging system will be very useful
<ddaa> Mostly stub.
<ddaa> Not THE stub, stub as in "place holder code".
<stub> BradB, SteveA: I don't think we should be defining yet-another-markup-language. I'd rather just render everything in a fixed with font preserving whitespace
<BradB> sabdfl: there's only meant to really be one main "reporting" page, and if anything the current links like "bugs assigned to me", or "bugs i submitted" would be "shortcuts" with the appropriate pre-selected search criteria. heck, we could even give the user custom searches.
<BradB> stub: YAML? <code></code> is in the spec, at least.
<stub> (like <pre>, except allowing the browser to break lines)
<BradB> yeah, basically.
<SteveA> stub, BradB: if we render it in a fixed-width font, I guess we could use python's textwrap to wrap it at a sensible line length
<stub> BradB: So we are allowing HTML? Or a subset of HTML?
<SteveA> and make the original plaintext available at a link if necessary
<BradB> stub: we'll allow a few tags
<stub> So we are defining a new spec
<ddaa> sabdfl: I guess we should discuss the fate of that cruft during the sprint.
<sabdfl> ddaa: ok
<BradB> stub: we're defining the tags from the spec you're allowed to use, yeah.
<stub> How will this interact with incomming and outgoing emails?
<BradB> stub: the rules will be no different
<BradB> we might have to special-case lines that start with ">>> ", i dunno. we'll figure some of this out as we go along, no doubt.
<BradB> stub: but, well, outgoing, i'm not sure.
<BradB> we could give a choice to the user to have html formatted mail, i suppose.
<SteveA> I'd like to declare this launchpad meeting officially over.  Doesn't mean you have to stop discussing bug formatting though.
<daf> if you're importing comments from debbugs, you'll have to treat the formatting in those differently, no?
<stub> The rules are different. Text based email (from developers) is in a monospace font. The system takes that and displays some of it as monospace and some of it as proportional. The outgoing emails are probably the original that was sent. We have two different renderings, and the person sending the email can't see which is used until after the message appears on the web site.
<Kinnison> sabdfl: same place, dogfood_dump.bz2
<stub> If we just use monospace for everything, there is no need for <code>
<BradB> stub: eeee, that would hurt
<stub> Why? Email will be monospace anyway, which is what the bulk of messages will be read in.
<BradB> stub: are you familiar with debian's bug tracking stuff? i'm not, but if it's good, we could just borrow ideas mostly from them. i don't think it's worth spending too much time brainstorming about problems that have already been solved by several other systems.
<dilys> Malone bug #29 closed for package malone: Make maintainer assignees visible
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/29
<stub> BradB: I'm not familiar with debbugs.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: More work on functional tests reactivation (patch-805)
<daf> debbugs just shows emils in a monospace font
<SteveA> do the simplest thing that works.
<BradB> that doesn't surprise me. i can't see DD's wanting HTML-formatted email.
<daf> BradB: quite
<daf> I agree with Steve
<BradB> me too, that's why i said i don't want to spend much time on this one.
<daf> except that linkifying stuff automatically is very useful
<BradB> maybe pre + textwrap?
<SteveA> the #NNNN feature of bugzilla is nice
<daf> yep
<daf> and http:/... should be turned into <a href="http:/...">http:/...</a>
<SteveA> I'd like it to read "bug 56" rather than "#56" though
<daf> except you can't do the strikethrough thing that Bugzilla does, because bugs are never closed, as far as I can tell
<daf> they just have their package assignements closed
<stub> BradB: Just do each line as a <pre>, or <code> or <tt> or whatever
<stub> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/45
<dilys> New Malone bug #50: "Add an option to comment why we do a status change", submitted by Carlos Perell=C3=B3 Mar=C3=ADn
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/50
<daf> erk, need to implement quoted-printable decoding
<carlos> dilys: you need to learn nonascii chars :-)
<stub> daf: Its all in the email package just waiting for you to use it.
<daf> stub: yeah?
<stub> Yup
<daf> stub: I thought it was elsewhere in the standard library
<BradB> stub: hm, come to think of it, i don't think we want to break lines for code anyway.
<BradB> stub: we don't we just allow <pre></pre> around blocks of code and be done with it?
<daf> stub: also, I've noticed that Malone notification emails contain newlines in the subjects
<BradB> s/we/why/
<stub> daf: Well, if you are hacking it you can just do 'foo'.decode('quopri').
* debonzi -> lunch
<stub> BradB: It seems to much up CSS - someone sends an email without line breaks and it screws up the rendering. Nicer if the browser knows it should break lines I think (my opinion anyway)
<carlos> SteveA: not sure if you said it already, but I suppose the meeting is over, right?
* carlos wants to go to have lunch
<BradB> stub: how does it muck up the CSS if it's only around code blocks anyway?
<daf> carlos: yes, it's over
<carlos> ok
<carlos> see you later
<daf> BradB: how do you propose detecting code blocks?
<BradB> daf: by not doing that.
<stub> BradB: How do you detect a code block? How do you enforce people to use 80 column windows when editing their source?
<BradB> daf: the user just puts a <pre></pre> in there.
<daf> eurgh
<BradB> stub: you can't enforce sanity. "wrapping" code is equally insane.
<daf> I suppose that work
<daf> s
<BradB> s/enforce sanity/enforce sane coding/
<stub> Well, if we are assuming sane code then the lines won't be split anyway because they won't be too long
<dilys> New Malone bug #50: "Add an option to comment why we do a status change", submitted by Carlos Perell Marn
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/50
<daf> better
<sabdfl> nice
<stub> carlos the trouble maker
<carlos> daf: thanks :-)
<BradB> stub: we're assuming occassionally insane code, but that most of the time people don't write 100-column wide code blocks.
<daf> carlos: no problem :)
<daf> carlos: thanks for finding my bug
<carlos> stub: my name is a good UTF-8 betatesting thing :-)
<stub> Oh - we definitely want to avoid giving HTML tags meaning in messages, because people need to discuss bugs in HTML templates and pages and <pre> is a pretty common string when discussing web development.
<BradB> stub: are you saying if someone say "yeah so i was using a <pre> tag and blah blah..."?
<BradB> s,say,says, # still not sufficiently caffeinated
<stub> Yup.
<BradB> stub: then they'd escape it, of course :)
<BradB> that's a non-issue.
<stub> BradB: It is a major issue. Messages that come in via email cannot be proofed by the end user.
<daf> I suggest DTSTTW for now, file a bug on fancy formatting later
<daf> * for later
<stub> Is that welsh or an acronym?
<daf> Do The Simplest Thing That Works
<BradB> stub: i don't think malone is going to support incoming mail for a first the first release anyway, so i still think using <pre> is the simplest thing that works for now.
<stub> Pre in our template, sure. Not interpreting <pre> in message body though.
<BradB> stub: you're wanting to auto-detect code then?
<stub> No - just render the entire thing as <pre>.
<BradB> ugh :)
<BradB> that looks horrid though
<stub> It is all just plain test, and code is no different to ascii tables, bullet lists, whatever
<BradB> it's hard on the eyes. reading an entire programming text, for example, in fixed-width font, would not be a pleasant thing.
<BradB> stub: anyway, i have to get on to the three things i mentioned earlier. i'd say either 1. go with my/SteveA/daf's side (i think?) and allow <pre> or 2. do it your way, and see if people accept it.
<stub> But it doesn't have surprises. The unusal cases (large blocks of documentation) are better catered for using HTML or PDF attachments rather than giving surprising results for the normal situation (people type stuff that looks correct and enter submit)
<BradB> stub: ok, go for it that way then, if you want to make the change. if malone users don't like it, they'll be sure to let you know. :)
<stub> Sure. There is a bug open on it, because I didn't want to just go and implement my opinion even though I know it is right ;)
<daf> BradB: I think I'm with stub here
<daf> if there's going to be special formatting, it should probably be only if the user explicitly selects it
<daf> and rather than creating a little Malone-specific markup language, it would be better to use RST or a wiki-like syntax
<daf> and you also want a preview mode so that users can check their markup is ok
<daf> so not doing any special formatting is much simpler in the short term
<stub> Yup. Not sure how to do previews when the message comes in via email, but agree.
<BradB> sabdfl: got a moment to chat about the bug reporting?
<sabdfl> BradB: sure
<BradB> sabdfl: what was your concern?
<daf> stub: something debbugs does for bug submissions is treating the beginning of the body as an extra set of headers -- Package, Severity, etc.
<daf> stub: possibly Malone could do something similar for comments
<sabdfl> the form on the bug listing page...
<daf> stub: or, just not format email
<sabdfl> each of those selectors is going to be horribly difficult
<sabdfl> because that page has no sense of it's own context
<BradB> sabdfl: what is its context?
<BradB> i would have thought 1. the defaults come from things we know about the current user and if those aren't good enough 2. we have the most kickass widget (when it's fully implemented) for searching large collections of things so they can easily find something different than what we defaulted to.
<BradB> Zope 3.1 (i think) will have this thing called "sources" which is meant for huge vocabs. I'm not sure what the scope of sources in Zope 3 are though (i.e. if they'll come with some really cool widget.) This is such a critical thing for all of Launchpad though, that maybe we want to take an active role in that owrk.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: utilities/rocketsync, mirror rocketfuel with rsync (patch-806)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Message display in monospace (patch-807)
<BradB> carlos: ever get your test failure sorted out?
<BradB> carlos: it sounds like a possible bug in LaunchpadFunctionalTestCase. you might want to override setUp and tearDown in your class and throw some pdb.set_trace()'s in there to follow what's going on.
<carlos> BradB: no I did not got a solution yet
<carlos> BradB: ok, as soon as I finish my current work I will try to debug it that way
<carlos> thanks
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: fix use of taxi.importVersion to pass required logger argument (patch-69)
<dilys> Malone bug #22 closed for package malone: Bug assignments table bad UI
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/22
<BradB> stub: so does "Open" mean "someone's working on this"?
<stub> I think so - Assigned might be a better name for it. 
<stub> Or 'accepted'
<BradB> I like assigned
<BradB> It's what Bugzilla uses, and is perhaps the most clear.
<stub> we can tell assigned by seeing if there is an assignee, so that is almost a second status.
<stub> At the moment, a bug can be open without having an assignee so it might not be a good idea to use that.
<BradB> stub: any status that is implicit by having someone assigned though is a second status. we want to have something that marks these as saying "someone's assigned to this bug" so that we can search for the bugs that don't have someone assigned.
<BradB> what does "Open" mean then?
<BradB> if it means Accepted, then well... :)
<stub> At the moment, I'm not sure :-(
<BradB> why don't we have New, Accepted, Assigned and Closed then? (ugh, I hate Closed, it's so unclear)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Malone polish (patch-808)
<stub> 'in progress', 'pending', 'deferred' ?
<BradB> stub: those seem less clear
<BradB> well, deferred would be an addition to what i proposed.
<BradB> New, Accepted, Deferred, Assigned and Closed.
<BradB> New, Accepted, Deferred, Assigned, Fixed, Rejected, perhaps
<stub> I personally like an 'in progress' indicator, but people rarely use it so I don't know if we can include it
<stub> That last is sounding good.
<BradB> I'll make the change and let people holler if it turns out to be unclear.
<BradB> It can't be worse than what we currently have, that's for sure.
<stub> sabdfl or the others who speced this might know more about why it is like it currently is.
<stub> :)
<BradB> sabdfl: can I go ahead and make this status change?
<BradB> (for assignments)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Add in checking of upload stuff from James (patch-809)
<BradB> Open says "This bug has been reviewed and accepted by the maintainer, and is still open." which is recursive.
<stub> :-)
<stub> I think we can do without 'Assigned' as a status. Search forms could still list it with the real statuses and allow searching on it if they are trying to save screen real estate
<stub> Also, it we add 'Accepted' as a status we need to ensure that it can only be set if there is an assignee. We need to think through the workflow implications of adding 'Accepted' (eg. if we implement it as a status, changing the assignee should reset the status to 'open'. This might get annoying if a bug is passed back and forth between two developers, and they just won't bother 'accepting' the bug. Hmm...)
<BradB> stub: Accepted can be set without an assigned.
<BradB> Accepted just means the bug was accepted, i.e. "ah yes, this is indeed a bug"
<stub> Oh... I was thinking the assignee accepted the work
<stub> :-)
<BradB> having the assigned status in there leaves no room for confusion
<stub> Bed time for me I think ;)
<BradB> there may indeed be some workflow considerations for statuses though, but that doesn't change the need for them
<stub> Assigned status sounds like 'in progress'. Note that the bug might be assigned to someone when it is 'NEW' to be evaluated, so an 'Assigned' status seems unclear.
<BradB> it's sort of a six-of-one, half dozen of the other, i guess.
<BradB> plone's collector uses in-progress, i think, whereas bugzilla uses assigned.
<stub> Mmm.... I'm tired so I don't get to make any decisions atm ;)
<stub> I'm sure Mark will have an opinion though ;)
<BradB> sabdfl: btw, "Quick Searches" like at http://plone.org/collector is what i had in mind for making the assigned and created by reports go away.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> stub: before you crash
<sabdfl> do you have an answer for me on the bugmesage refactoring?
<BradB> sabdfl: can i go ahead and change assignment statuses to New, Accepted, Deferred, Assigned, Fixed, and Rejected?
<sabdfl> no dude
* SteveA goes to work in a cafe.  too cold at home.
<SteveA> (after a starmerge that is)
<BradB> sabdfl: the statuses as they are currently are preventing me from getting work done. i want to reject bugs, but i can't. i want to say i fixed a bug, but i can't.
<stub> sabdfl: Looks fine except you need to reset the DEFAULT value on the Message table's primary key. See archives/patch-2-11-0.sql for an example, or we can work on the patch in the pending directory
<BradB> sabdfl: and if you asked all 8-10 LP'ers what "Open" on a bug means, you'd almost surely get 8-10 different answers. :)
<sabdfl> BradB: we spent a lot of time reducing the number of states on bugassignment status
<sabdfl> malone has states on assignment and infestation
<BradB> sabdfl: why spend a lot of time on wanting to do that?
<sabdfl> we will also introduce a state on the bug itself
<sabdfl> the risk is that we get into the same message that bugzilla is in
<sabdfl> where there are too many different knobs
<sabdfl> and people don't know how to use them
<sabdfl> BradB: because i'm a simplicity fascist
<sabdfl> so don't go undoing all that good work
<BradB> sabdfl: so am i :) i'm a usability fascist. i can't help but think about me here, because i'm using malone to try and do my job.
<daf> sabdfl: I find the fact that a bug doesn't have a status seriously confusing, and I suspect other people will too
<sabdfl> daf: yes, that's going to be a usability thing we have to work out
<daf> sabdfl: ok, you're aware of it then
<sabdfl> what do you mean you don't know how to reject bugs? 
<Kinnison> Are the ftests currently disabled?
<BradB> sabdfl: the way it's currently setup, an infestation is *required* to fix a bug.
<sabdfl> no it isn't
<BradB> sabdfl: yes, it is. because otherwise i have to say it's "Closed", which is not saying that it's "Fixed".
<sabdfl> right
<BradB> sabdfl: and our users are saying it's confusing. why are the designers right and the users wrong?
<sabdfl> the designers accept it's not very usable
<sabdfl> but the quick fix you are proposing might likely make the situation worse
<stub> BradB: The 'Closed' vs. 'Fixed' might not be an issue, as there is a priority WONTFIX that can be used to flag bugs that will be open forever.
<sabdfl> if you want to change the states you'll need to walk me through it carefully
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> wontfix says "yes this bug is open but i won't fix it"
<BradB> sabdfl, stub: there needs to be one column that tells me the "health" of this bug. status is it.
<sabdfl> BradB: i've been toying with the idea of a status on the bug itself
<sabdfl> but think about it: whatever status is there has to apply to EVERY context where that bug is found
<sabdfl> upstream, and in all distro's
<BradB> not upstream, just distros
<BradB> eeg, brain starting to hurt
<BradB> i want simple, simple, simple. i don't want to be made to think when it comes to the mindless task of saying "i fixed this" or "nope, sorry dude, this isn't a bug".
<daf> sabdfl: some bugs are just wrong, and it should be simple to deal with them
* BradB thinks
<BradB> i'm just wondering if in fact infestations carry the more pivotal role, and package/product assignments are just things we do in the background, to ensure the bug gets in the relevant maintainer's face.
<daf> I think the problem lies in the fact that Malone represets related problems in different areas as one bug where other bug systems would represent them as many
<daf> that's a very clean model
<daf> but it doesn't make for an easy interface
<BradB> sabdfl: in response to your earlier comment about how a "Fixed" on an assignment would be problematic because it spans distro releases, well, yes, we want to be able to say that.
<daf> people like to be able to say "I closed bug #123", even if it's only fixing the problem in one package
<sabdfl> we have several options
<BradB> sabdfl: it makes sense to me to say "Fixed" on apache 2.0.52, but also "Fixed" on apache.
<daf> I can't see people putting "changed status of packageassignment to foo of bug #12345 to closed" in changelogs
<sabdfl> one way is to come up with a neat way of saying "i closed #123 in ubuntu/firefox[/warty] "
<sabdfl> the other is to treat each assignment as a distinct #
<sabdfl> so closing #123 would mean closing an assignment
<BradB> sabdfl: the first one is what i'm suggested with my status changes. the second suggestion would make my life more difficult (and everytime I say "my" and refer to "me" here WRT usability, i'm really referring to my opinion of what the majority of Malone users will think about it)
<sabdfl> BradB: you don't need additional statuses for the first
<BradB> sabdfl: you do, because you need to be able to say "i fixed #123"
<BradB> sabdfl: or "nope, #123 is not a bug"
<BradB> sabdfl: or "i'll fix #123, but not yet"
<sabdfl> "i'l fix #123 but not yet" would be: leave assignment status OPEN set priority LOW
<sabdfl> "nope #123 is not a bug" would depend, if it's not a bug HERE then close the assignment, if it's not a bug ANYWHERE then close the assignment and MAYBE put something else on the bug status itself
<sabdfl> "i fixed 123" would be "set bugassignment for 123 to CLOSED"
<BradB> sabdfl: your solution communicates neither 1. that it was fixed, nor 2. that it was rejected.
<BradB> sabdfl: If I have a status "Fixed" an an assignment, there can be no misinterpreation of what that means. OTOH, what is the argument /against/ having "Fixed" that is somehow alleviated by only having "Closed"?
<sabdfl> maybe we can have FIXED and REJECTED
<sabdfl> so it goes NEW, OPEN, REJECTED and FIXED
<BradB> can we change OPEN though? i think it communicates very little information. if it means "Accepted" why make the user try and think that one through to arrive at that conclusion, when we could have just called it "Accepted" in the first place? :)
<BradB> to me, OPEN implies that no decision has been made on this one, e.g. even a decision on whether or not it's a bug.
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> NEW, ACCEPTED, REJECTED, FIXED
<BradB> particularly since we have its opposite, REJECTED
<BradB> ok, cool, that's a good start.
<BradB> i'll make that change and we can see how users like it. sound good?
<stub> Just pretty please make sure the numerical representation of 'FIXED' is the same as 'CLOSED', or if you need to change it make sure I do a database patch to update the existing assignments ;)
<BradB> stub: i'll make it the same. at worst, it's a one-line update anyway.
<stub> Yer. I just don't want to roll out onto dogfood and reject all our closed bugs ;)
<BradB> an update may be required actually, since i want them numbered 1-4 in the order sabdfl mentioned above
<BradB> and Closed is currently 3, i believe
<BradB> either way, it'll be sorted out
<stub> ok. Just stick a patch in database/schema/pending (or a rude note) so I don't forget ;)
<BradB> yes, will do, thanks
<sabdfl> BradB: i'd like to get the infestation foo working well, before we start to mess more with the model
<sabdfl> in other words i'd like to see how slick we can make it by integrating properly into the workflow
<sabdfl> so, for example, we get it so a package upload can tell malone which bugs it fixes, and have it automatically create the "fixed" infestation, and close the assignment
<sabdfl> i'm happy with the NEW, ACCEPTED, REJECTED, FIXED change, but would like to minimise other state diagram changes
<BradB> sabdfl: yes, i'm happy to go with that change now, since it allows is to do things we can't currently do and continue to solicit more user feedback.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> don't go 1,2,3,4
<BradB> Fixed will be 3, I think.
<BradB> NAFR
<sabdfl> i've migrrated other things to 10, 20, 30, 40...
<BradB> ok
<sabdfl> so we can more easily add intermediate values in a sensible sort of sort order
<BradB> stub: ok, so i'll be giving you a migration script :)
<dilys> New Malone bug #51: "Rosetta translations statistics", submitted by Daniel Debonzi
<dilys> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/51
<sabdfl> stub: still around?
<stub> yup
<sabdfl> ok, i'm still trying to get a dump of the dogfood db
<sabdfl> Kinnison has made a few attempts, but I can't import them into my local machine for some reason
<sabdfl> i really need this today
<stub> You can't import the dumps directly due to a limitation in PostgreSQL (probably a simple fix, but nobody has bothered. Might be a good bounty). It will fail because it dumps objects in the order they were created, which screws up when column constraints are added after the tables or views altered.
<stub> To load the dump, you need to change the order that the objects are created by using pg_restore -l and pg_restore -L
<stub> (pg_restore -l to get a list of stuff in the dump to a file, edit the file, use pg_restore -L to restore using your specified order)
<stub> There are examples in 'man pg_restore' in the EXAMPLES section
<stub> Alternatively, do your tests on mawson. Use 'createdb -E UNICODE --template=launchpad_dogfood_20041117 sabdfl_test' to duplicate the database.
<sabdfl> i need to get the data into my own db so i can massively vchange it and run lp against it
<sabdfl> stub: please make this easy for me. produce a blob somewhere that i / we can just pqsl -d lp_dev -f xxx 
<stub> Oh - quickest way of doing it in our case is to load trusted.sql into the database before restoring the backup. That should sort out the dependancies (in our case)
<stub> I'm having net difficulties at the moment (nameservers seem screwed) 
<lulu> night all :o)
<carlos> lulu: night
<debonzi> lulu, night
<lulu> night guys :o)
<carlos> BradB|lunch: the set_trace suggestion does not works, it just breaks the test and I'm not able to debug it
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Added support to change the fuzzy flag explicity by the translator. We have now all basic features to translate an application with Rosetta (finally) (patch-810)
* Kinnison waves
<carlos> any css specialist around?
<BradB> carlos: I don't get it. What happens when you put a set_trace() in the setUp method of your class exactly?
<carlos> Error in test testPoExportAdapter (canonical.rosetta.ftests.test_poexport.POExportTestCase)
<carlos> Traceback (most recent call last):
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/rosetta/ftests/test_poexport.py", line 156, in setUp
<carlos>     pdb.set_trace()
<carlos>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/pdb.py", line 992, in set_trace
<carlos>     Pdb().set_trace()
<carlos>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/bdb.py", line 52, in trace_dispatch
<carlos>     return self.dispatch_return(frame, arg)
<carlos>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/bdb.py", line 80, in dispatch_return
<carlos>     if self.quitting: raise BdbQuit
<carlos> BdbQuit
<carlos> I don't have any chance to debug it, I think it's because the stdin/stdout are not connected to my terminal
<BradB> carlos: what exactly does your setUp look like?
<carlos> import pdb
<carlos> pdb.set_trace()
<BradB> carlos: oh, hm, maybe it's because when i was doing that, I was running one test at a time or something
<carlos> and then a call to super
<carlos> BradB: yes, I suppose that's the difference
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Moved rosetta/sql.zcml to the common infrastructure (patch-811)
<dilys> Bug 1948 resolved: scripts to dump/restore user information from/to Launchpad DB
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1948
<dilys> Bug 1947 resolved: Implement cookie-based authentication for launchpad
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1947
<dilys> Bug 2076 resolved: Login status does not work in public pages
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2076
<carlos> tv time
<carlos> later
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: missed clausetables from malone/bugassignment (patch-812)
<BradB> cprov: any news on the pagetest diff fix?
<BradB> I'm fixing tests that broke from my bug status changes, and with all the false diff output it's hell.
<cprov> BradB: sorry, but not yet, I can't see any smart way to handle the returned diff w/o lost information
<cprov> BradB: just parse the data in test_on_merge should be the easiest way, but doesn't produce good results 
<BradB> cprov: test_on_merge has nothing to do with this. It's a bug in the page test thing.
<cprov> BradB: diff has no option (or I didn't found an appropriated)  to help me 
<BradB> cprov: it wouldn't
<BradB> the key is to chop out stuff like:
<BradB> -...
<BradB> +foo
<BradB> +bar
<BradB> +baz
<BradB> i.e. when the *only* expected output was an elision, that's a decoy
<BradB> which is what i was saying yesterday
<BradB> cprov: have you written the test for this first? that's probably the best way to get thinking about how to solve the problem.
<cprov> BradB: the test page works in the correct way verifying the page, i.e., the problem is just the returned output, I think ...
<BradB> cprov: exactly
<cprov> BradB: of course I wrote
<cprov> BradB: the diff output style is problem, may we have better "on-the-fly" info 
<BradB> cprov: i don't get it: what's hard about chopping out the diffs that look like:
<BradB> -...
<BradB> +blah
<BradB> then?
<cprov> BradB: since <p> ...</p> is different than <b> ... </b>, can you see my point ?
<BradB> cprov: yeah, hm
<debonzi> SteveA, quick question for you :)
<cprov> BradB: I can't simply "ignore lines w/ PATTERN(..., +blah, +baz", what is also something wierd to do w/ unified diff format
<debonzi> SteveA, should I move the app component classes from lanchpad/soyuz to somewhere else?
<debonzi> SteveA, if yes, where? 
<SteveA> can you give me an example of what you mean?
<debonzi> SteveA, yes... I have for exaple DistroReleaseSourceApp that is used as the context inside the zpt
<debonzi> I have one like this for each soyuz page
<debonzi> I saw a lot of malone stuff was moved to launchpad/database for example but I don't think this is the place for app components 
<debonzi> Im just trying to follow the standard moving the right things to launchpad/database launchpad/browse launchpad/zcml
<SteveA> debonzi: I'll take a look in a min
<debonzi> SteveA, maybe they should be keeped in soyuz directory as it is now but I whould like to have your opnion.. thanks
<SteveA> well...
<SteveA> I'm looking at distroapp.py
<debonzi> right
<SteveA> there are some unused imports, incidentally
<debonzi> SteveA, are there? Ill check them
<SteveA> there is definitely database code in there, in the sense that it is doing ad-hoc selects
<SteveA> and, that won't get caught by the security stuff
<SteveA> so, we should refactor these so that they are methods on classes in canonical/launchpad/database
<SteveA> and then the code in distroapp.py would call those
<debonzi> SteveA, are you saying that I *can't* have select inside the app component classes ?
<SteveA> basically, the code should be calling only methods on the interface of the objects it gets in its __init__ method
<SteveA> or of utilities it gets
<SteveA> right, you shouldn't have those.  a select is database code, so it should be in the database area
<SteveA> but, the code as a whole is really functioning as an adapter of (for example) a distribution
<SteveA> I think it might require a bit more thinking and talking to work out what's best to do here
<SteveA> can we have a meeting about it, say tomorrow, with maybe celso and kiko too?
<SteveA> then we can all discuss it and decide what's best to do
<debonzi> SteveA, would be nice as long as we have this kind of things in some other places too
<debonzi> SteveA, for me its perfect
<SteveA> what time?  I have a rosetta meeting at 12:30 UTC
<debonzi> after it is to late for you?
<debonzi> s/to/too
<SteveA> I am two hours ahead of UTC
<SteveA> we could say 16:00 UTC, perhaps?
<SteveA> or 16:30
<SteveA> how about 16:30 ?
<debonzi> For me its ok
<SteveA> cprov: how about you?
<cprov> cprov: yes 
<SteveA> ok, great
<SteveA> please mention to kiko
<debonzi> SteveA, I will .. thanks a lot
<SteveA> thanks for bringing this up debonzi
<SteveA> and, perhaps you can remove the unused imports?
<SteveA> there is actually a tool to help with this somewhere
<debonzi> SteveA, yes.. Ill check all of them
<SteveA> in the zope3 utilities I think
<SteveA> sourcecode/zope/utilities/importchecker.py
<debonzi> SteveA, cool :)
<SteveA> it isn't perfect, but it is helpful
<cprov> SteveA: any remarks related to zope.app.tests.test ? parsing unified diff format looks crap ...I'm kind of lost on it  
<SteveA> cprov: I'm currently getting the ftp server ready to check in, so I can't look right now
<cprov> SteveA: ok, let me know when you have time ... tks anyway :)
<BradB> cprov: what's the name of the z3 method that compares expected to actual? I'm wondering if you can somehow only diff the bits that it says aren't equal, rather than diffing the entire input against the entire output
<cprov> BradB: I wonder too, it seems to be not z3 ... at least not in zope.app.tests.test, its a great idea
<SteveA>  lib/zope/testing/doctest.py
<BradB> yeah, was just about to say...
<cprov> SteveA: difflib ? ok, maybe we can have luck in that way
<BradB> cprov: i think that the first thing that needs to be done would probably be to make sure there's a little method in the elision-aware machinery that knows how to return *only* the chunks that were truly different. at that point, the problem virtually solves itself. remember though, that elision is just a flag passed to this machinery, so that sometimes a "..." can literally mean a "...", which is why this fix needs to be fairly d
<BradB> eep in the machinery.
<SteveA> um
<SteveA> can a '...' literally mean a '...' ?
<BradB> i believe so
<SteveA> I mean, sure, '...' will match '...' and also '......'
<SteveA> and also '.'
<BradB>            "ellipsis": r"""
<BradB>                 If the ellipsis flag is used, then '...' can be used to
<BradB>                 elide substrings in the desired output:
<BradB>                     >>> print range(1000) #doctest: +ELLIPSIS
<BradB>                     [0, 1, 2, ..., 999] 
<SteveA> cprov: the first thing I'd do is prepare a text file of sample input, one of comparison input, and one of desired diff output
<BradB> cprov: he said he's already written the tests
<SteveA> then write the test that shows what you'd like to happen
<SteveA> if so, great!
<cprov> SteveA: BradB: can it be a real/current (small one) launchpad test ? keeping the things near of our work ?
<BradB> cprov: basically it comes down to OutputChecker.check_output sucking, I think.
<BradB> cprov: it should probably just be a few simple five line examples, demonstrating in an easy-to-digest way the edge cases that are proven to behave correctly.
<cprov> BradB: I think too
<cprov> BradB: ok
<cprov> BradB: I need to go ... if you have some other idea, please write an email to me
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: added ftp server.  added annotation-in-zodb support. (patch-813)
<SteveA> >>> from canonical.launchpad.interfaces import IZODBAnnotation
<SteveA> >>> IZODBAnnotation(some_bug)['soyuz.todolist']  = "Here is my todo list for some_bug"
<SteveA> >>> del IZODBAnnotation(some_bug)['soyuz.todolist'] 
<SteveA> >>> 'soyuz.todolist' in IZODBAnnotation(some_bug)
<SteveA> False
<SteveA> >>> IZODBAnnotation(some_bug).get('soyuz.todolist')
<SteveA> None
<SteveA> >>> IZODBAnnotation(some_bug)['soyuz.todolist']  = "Here is my todo list for some_bug"
<SteveA> >>> print IZODBAnnotation(some_bug)['soyuz.todolist'] 
<SteveA> "Here is my todo list for some_bug"
<SteveA> 
* SteveA notes that the soyuz team is not here
* SteveA goes to bed
<BradB> hm, why do we want to store that in the ZDOB?
<BradB> ZODB even
#launchpad 2005-11-28
<kiko-afk> quite a nice flight if I may say so myself
<jordi> cool
<sivang> what were all you guys doing in nyc? ( jordi I've seen the photos ;-))
<kiko-afk> I did pretty much NOTHING
<jordi> kiko-afk: yay. :)
<jordi> sivang: visit
<kiko-afk> just walked around
<kiko-afk> ate pizza
<kiko-afk> saw the ex-wtc
<kiko-afk> what else?
<jordi> you went to the void?
<jordi> heh
<jordi> I didn't
<jordi> everyone told me it wasn't worth going
<jordi> we did go to the bull and the stock xchange
<jordi> evil places
<kiko-afk> the bull, huh? where is it?
<sivang> jordi: saw you're photos standing there :)
<jordi> kiko-afk: near the stock exchange
<kiko-afk> somebody mentioned the bull but I had never heard of it.
<kiko-afk> jordi, and what of the stock xchange -- is it madness?
<jordi> kiko-afk: me neither. It seems to be the friendly symbolism for capitalism
<jordi> kiko-afk: didn't let us in
<jordi> but we tried
<kiko-afk> I thought there were guided tours or something
<kiko-afk> ex-wtc is a big hole in the ground
<kiko-afk> surprisingly devoid of debris
<mdz> kiko: you FROZE
<kiko> well, in nyc I did
<kiko> not here
<ajmitch> a good thing I didn't bother going to the big hole in nyc then
* ajmitch also couldn't be bothered paying to go up the empire state building
<kiko> ajmitch, the empire state is something to behold!
<ajmitch> I got a photo from outside, but I was with friends
<kiko> ex-wtc is interesting, actually, but more because of what it represents than what you can see there. though it is pretty ominously empty
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> it would have been a fairly long walk to see a hole though :)
<kiko> it's a short metro ride!
* Kinnison returns
* lifeless banishes
<lifeless> go forth and sleep dammit
<Kinnison> but I just got back from the kinemax
<Kinnison> most good it was, too
<Kinnison> g'night all
<tvon> Was there a change at some point that made bug report mails come from the submitter as opposed to some @bugs.launchpad.net address?
<tvon> better yet, I have a use case for you that I suspect is pretty common
<tvon> The group for my project has a mailing list address associated with it.  Whenever a bug is filed in Malone against the project a mail shoots to the mailing list.  This is perfect, except it seems the mails are coming from the submitters email address so the only way I can let the bug mails go directly through to the list is to open up the list to non-subscribers
<ajmitch> tvon: we have that for universe-bugs with ubuntu
<tvon> so the question would be, how can I get bug mails through to the mailing list without opening up the list to non-subscribers?
<ajmitch> as you can imagine, there's a lot of traffic there
<tvon> ajmitch: is the list open?
<ajmitch> you have to match on a header
<tvon> I would think, yes :)
<tvon> aha
<ajmitch> not sure if the list is open, but there are headers like X-Generated-By
<tvon> X-Generated-By: Launchpad (canonical.com) ?
<tvon> yeah, cool
<ajmitch> & the Reply-To address is set to launchpad also
<tvon> is this something you procmail or is it setup in mailman?
<ajmitch> recent mailman, I believe
<ajmitch> I don't run the list
<tvon> okay
<tvon> that should be enough for me to go on, thanks much
<jamesh> tvon: you can use mailman 2.1's spam controls to allow messages with certain headers to be accepted
<tvon> jamesh: thanks
<tvon> sweet, all set
<tvon> thanks folks
* tvon tips his hat
<stub> lifeless: It looks like pqm is retrieving archives via sftp which can't be particularly fast. Is there a hook in PQM to make it rewrite URLs, so local archives are retrieved direct from the fs?
<lifeless> stub: no
<lifeless> stub: I'm about to move it to balleny
<stub> Will belleny be working with local archives and pushing the results to chinstrap, or using the archives on chinstrap directly?
<jamesh> lifeless: does pqm accept the branchname;revno=NNN syntax for the star-merge command?
<lifeless> stub: local master, pushes results
<lifeless> but merges from user archives on chinstrap
<lifeless> jamesh: hmm, dont think bzr has been taught that
<lifeless> patches desired :)
<jamesh> lifeless: the pending-reviews code handles it internally
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> nice
<sivang> Morning all
<StevenK> I sent a mail to new@bugs.l.n, and I haven't seen the bug turn up or gotten any mail back from launchpad. It was sent at 22/11 22:30 +1100 from stevenk@debian.org
<BjornT> StevenK: it seems that for some reason your signature couldn't be verified. i'll take a look at it today.
<StevenK> BjornT: Right.
<zyga> morning
<zyga> has aynone seen carlos?
<stub> lifeless: Even using the head of your integration branch, I can't rsync $rocketfuel/launchpad/devel and 'bzr revert' in it. Is there another branch I can use for doing rollouts?
<carlos> morning
<zyga> carlos: hi, do you have a moment?
<zyga> carlos: a lenghy moment mayb
<zyga> ... a lengthy moment, maybe
<carlos> give me 15 minutes, please...
<zyga> right, thanks
<carlos> zyga, hi
<zyga> okay
<zyga> I'm in contact with a group of translators known as gnomepl.org
<zyga> I've just managed to convice them to move _all_ of their work over to rosetta
<zyga> they have a cvs repo with translations relevant to every official gnome application
<zyga> now we are wondering how to move all of that over to rosetta
<zyga> rosetta probably has the outdated versions since they upload their stuff to cvs.gnome.org every now and then and that's how we got our stuff, right?
<carlos> zyga, first, we need to import GNOME into Rosetta
<zyga> the official gnome?
<carlos> after that, I suppose you can use curl to create a script that imports those .po files (unless they are not already inside GNOME's CVS
<carlos> )
<zyga> (they upload to official gnome, they are *the* upstream as far as pl_PL is concerned)
<carlos> ok, then it's a matter of implement the bridge between cvs -> Rosetta
<zyga> also there is an issue of automatic exports from rosetta back to cvs.gnome.org
<carlos> well, between l10n-status.gnome.org -> Rosetta
<zyga> right
<carlos> zyga, no way to do that now
<zyga> exactly
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> is there any way to automatically export from rosetta to po?
<carlos> zyga, that part should be handled by them
<zyga> (like, without all the waiting and getting emails)
<carlos> zyga, we can implement something specific for this use case, yes
<zyga> good
<zyga> then the rest is easy
<zyga> so the plan is:
<zyga> 1) make sure that rosetta has all the packages that we have, all the domains
<zyga> 2) upload from cvs.gnomepl.org (note the .pl) stuff to rosetta, manually
<zyga> 3) triple check that everything is fine
<zyga> 4) work on a way to export stuff from rosetta to po automatically and then (that's our part) back to cvs.gnome.org
<carlos> zyga, why is the 2) step needed?
<carlos> if they upload their translations into cvs.gnome.org
<carlos> that's enough... right?
<zyga> right but their repo is synced only like, at each gnome released
<zyga> s/d$//
<zyga> so it's been updated already with bugfixes but those changes never made back to cvs.gnome.org
<zyga> there were some management problems, people with upstream cvs access had no time to work on this
<zyga> one more issue, more ubuntu specific
<carlos> ok
<zyga> if say, we upload translation of gnome-panel (to the g-p package) will ubuntu's (say, dapper) variant of g-p automatically pick up the changes?
<zyga> I understand those are separate, right?
<zyga> hmm, strange: https://launchpad.net/products/gnome-panel/+series/main
<zyga> no breezy, no dapper?
<carlos> zyga, no directly, but we are going to implement a UI to manage translation shares between releases
<zyga> carlos: is there any bridge for upstream to pull translations back or is that a manual process? like for something as big as gnome
<carlos> zyga, if you translate with Rosetta you will be able to choose if the translation should apply too to Breezy, dapper or any other release)
<carlos> zyga, manual process, in the future, we will have a bzr branch
<zyga> hmm AFAIR I choose that by url
<carlos> where maintainers will be able to get all translations from Rosetta
<carlos> zyga, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/multicast-translations <- This spec has a description of the procedure we are going to implement to share translations with other releases/branches
<zyga> reading
<zyga> carlos: is there any 'mess' in the product list? like multiple 'variants' of the same product being registerd, anything that could significantly increase the difficulty of our transition?
<carlos> zyga, don't think so
<zyga> so we should move all of our stuff into official products, not to any branded variants, right?
<carlos> right
<carlos> this movement will be done for all GNOME translation teams
<carlos> so we need to do a full import
<zyga> hmm?
<carlos> so any other team can use Rosetta
<carlos> if they want
<zyga> there are other teams using rosetta as their primary tool?
<carlos> so we should not import only 'pl'
<zyga> oh, ok
<carlos> zyga, I think there are a couple of teams wanting to use it, yes
<carlos> and I suppose others would be interested if we provide the infrastructure
<zyga> okay
<zyga> I'll inform the grou
<zyga> group
<zyga> can you give any timeframe for the rosetta->po export on demand?
<zyga> (anything that can be automated is fine)
<zyga> simply the current email based system is difficult to automate
<carlos> zyga, I think the main problem is the l10n-status -> Rosetta path
<zyga> hmm, why?
<carlos> without that... the export to .po is no so useful
<zyga> that needs to be done once I guess
<carlos> not really
<zyga> the exactly opposite path needs to be done regularly
<carlos> we need to get the updates
<zyga> hmm
<carlos> or Rosetta will be out sync soon
<zyga> okay, right
<zyga> I assumed everyone would work with rosetta but that's a big 'if'
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> I've got an idea
<zyga> cvs.gnome.org -> we pull all translations, tagged manually (from .po to our product), then we fetch a snapshot of bzr tree with relevant .po file and copy it over (maybe msgmerge, I don't know how to handle the overlap and conflict part really), then we commit back to bzr
<carlos> I don't think all teams will want to use Rosetta...
<zyga> actually the conflict part is important
<carlos> zyga, how do you update Rosetta in that workflow?
<zyga> from our bzr tree (where our is rosetta)
<zyga> similarly to the way imports are done manually today
<zyga> you queue all the modified files for import
<zyga> and the results are feed to team leaders (or some public site) for review
<zyga> that's lots of work to get right but not so much work to get working I guess
<zyga> I'm not sure how rosetta's back end work so I'm guessing based on what I know from the front-end
<carlos> zyga, the bzr -> Rosetta path needs to be done manually.... that's a big amount of work
<zyga> why?
<zyga> I can queue a .po for import today
<zyga> why cannot that be put into some for loop?
<carlos> zyga, will you queue all GNOME .po files ?
<zyga> not manually for sure
<carlos> that's my point
<carlos> ;-)
<zyga> but we can tag from /specific/path/in/the/gnome/cvs to a tuple (our-product,some-other-data-we-need)
<zyga> that's manual but one time job
<zyga> that's about what, 50-150 associations, righT?
<carlos> zyga, we should use l10n-status.gnome.org to get updated .pot files
<SteveA> stub: hello
<carlos> GNOME's CVS does not have .pot files
<stub> SteveA: Morning
<SteveA> moin
<SteveA> so, i'm doing this code review for carlos
<zyga> calos: is that something different from cvs.gnome.org?
<zyga> ah
<zyga> the pot files, right
<SteveA> in many of his page templates, there's a section underneath the h1 to iterate over notices and alerts and display them.
<zyga> (sorry I had a phone call)
<SteveA> i'm surprised to see this here, and not in the main template.
<SteveA> can you tell me about it?
<lifeless> stub: let me test
<zyga> carlos: hmm, do we keep individual versions, like 2.12, 2.14? 
<zyga> or just the head?
<SteveA> i have some work to do on the main template shortly, so i can refactor this into it, if that will work
<stub> SteveA: If it is the BrowserNotification stuff, it should be in the main template (and only the main template). That was where I left it anyway.
<SteveA> > +  <p tal:repeat="alert view/alerts"
<SteveA> > +    class="portalMessage"
<SteveA> > +    tal:content="alert">
<SteveA> > +    Notification Message
<SteveA> > +  </p>
<SteveA> > +  <p tal:repeat="notice view/notices"
<SteveA> > +    class="portalMessage"
<SteveA> > +    tal:content="notice">
<SteveA> > +    Notification Message
<SteveA> > +  </p>
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> that kind of thing
<SteveA> maybe that's not notification messages then
<SteveA> carlos: ?
<carlos> SteveA, I added it following the hacking FAQ
<stub> Sounds like some atrophied documentatin
<SteveA> it irks me to see this repeated stuff in many templates
<SteveA> okay, thanks stub and carlos.  i'll look into it some more.
<carlos> How should I generate notices like "Added Bug #1234" to the top of the page?
<stub> SteveA: I think this was the way someone documented notifications before BrowserNotifications existed
<Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
<carlos> that entry
<carlos> at https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadHackingFAQ
<stub> carlos: response.addInfoNotification(...), response.addNoticeNotification(...) etc. The interface that describes these is canonical.launchpad.webapp.interfaces.INotificationResponse
<stub> carlos: As per BrowserNotificationMessages spec
<zyga> carlos: so what should I suggest to the group now
<zyga> carlos: we either wait and work on the automatic backend
<zyga> carlos: or we do that manually
<carlos> stub, Ok, thanks
<carlos> stub, could you update the FAQ page, please?
<lifeless> SteveA: is there a review team meeting tonight ?
<lifeless> SteveA: ... what time ?
<carlos> zyga, hmmm don't know, I cannot implement the needed bits atm but I will try to develop it as part of my next three months of work...
<lifeless> stub: so debugging this
<lifeless> stub: 'branch launchpad/devel' works
<lifeless> which suggests there is working tree state that is confusing things
<zyga> carlos: is there any way we/i can help?
<SteveA> lifeless: there is none planned.
<carlos> zyga, hmmm, yes
<carlos> zyga, there are several things to do
<stub> lifeless: I'll try just rsyncing the .bzr directory (?)
<jordi> carlos, SteveA, kiko-zzz: a mail of max interest is about to hit rosetta-users
<carlos> 1.- Create any missing product 
<jordi> mailman upstream wonders about copyright issues, while thinking of adopting rosetta for mailman
<carlos> 2.- Create the current branches for those products (gnome-2.12, main, etc...)
<carlos> jordi, cool!!!!
<zyga> carlos: do I need any special priviledges for that?
<lifeless> stub: now I'm copying devel with .bzr
<lifeless> and trying a revert
<lifeless> I'm guessing a bug in revert tbh
<carlos> zyga, I don't think so, we will need to change the ownership later, but it's not a big deal....
<jordi> carlos: this reopens a few new questions I raised in that London sprint
<jordi> how to handle GNU packages
<jordi> we probably want sabdfl's input here.
<jordi> is he around these days?
<carlos> zyga, 3.- If you create a script that gets files from l10n-status.gnome.org and prepare it to know the branch, the product and the file at some point so I can integrate it into launchpad... then most of the work would be done
<lifeless> SteveA: we should start those again, no ?
<jordi> carlos, SteveA: any comments on the new uploads policy?
<jordi> David Farning is flooding me with requests :)
<carlos> jordi, GNU packages should have the GNU teams created as GNOME, Ubuntu or KDE
<carlos> so only them can do translations
<jordi> carlos: even so, we have the disclaimer issue.
<carlos> jordi, will try to do it today
<jordi> and the licence
<jordi> under what licence are Rosetta translations?
<carlos> jordi, ... if we block the teams like we do with GNOME... only official team coordinators will be able to add new translators to the team
<carlos> jordi, the same as the product we are translating
<SteveA> lifeless: yes. i want kiko to be involved, and for whatever reason he often wasn't attending before.
<carlos> + one that allows us to reuse the translations with other products
<jordi> carlos: ok
<carlos> zyga, what I'm not completely sure is about the legal issues with that....
<SteveA> jordi: who is David Farning?
<jordi> SteveA: dunno. Someone who wants to translate APT.
<carlos> jordi, the 'legal' link says that
<zyga> hmmm
<zyga> carlos: what could be the problem?
<carlos> SteveA, would be a big problem if zyga develops a script that will be executed on production and integrated by me inside launchpad?
<SteveA> jordi: is he someone who wants to translate APT upstream?
<jordi> SteveA: yes. He even feeds me with the pot and po files
<SteveA> carlos: tell me about what the script is for
<SteveA> jordi: is he involved in the upstream project?
<jordi> no
<SteveA> has he contacted them?
<carlos> SteveA, to do automatic imports from l10n-status.gnome.org into Rosetta
<jordi> probably not
<jordi> he also feeds me with postgresql templates
<carlos> SteveA, he would do all the development that is not launchpad specific and then I will add the missing bits to do the final imports into our database using launchpad's code
<jordi> this is why I ask about oyur policy draft.
<SteveA> jordi: okay, let's take a look at it.  can we look in 30 mins?
<SteveA> carlos: is this good for you too?
<carlos> SteveA, yes
<jordi> So we can publish it, and direct everyone to it, so they have the new policy in mind when requesting stuff.
<jordi> ste	sure thing
<SteveA> carlos: does l10n-status.gnome.org have just stats, or also translation data?
<carlos> SteveA, translation data
<carlos> SteveA, so we can get from there the .pot and .po files in a easy way
<lifeless> stub: confirmed, its teh revert of a file in a subdir
<carlos> easier than direct cvs download
<zyga> carlos:  just a side question, I don't see the .pot files anywhere on l10n-status.g.o
<lifeless> stub: I'll fix it tomorrow
<SteveA> okay.  so, if zyga makes some code available that is under a reasonable open source licence, then zyga can publish it and give it to anyone.  we can use it (put it in lib/contrib) and you can import it to use as part of launchpad
<zyga> GPL is fine for me
<carlos> zyga, http://l10n-status.gnome.org/gnome-2.14/PO/at-spi.HEAD.pot
<SteveA> carlos: note that you won't be planning to alter zyga's code, but import it and use its API
<carlos> SteveA, it will call launchpad code
<zyga> I didn't see that directory, I'll be very helpful :-)
<carlos> SteveA, oh, ok
* zyga is okay with any license really
<zyga> you can even hire me for 0$ and get full rights
<SteveA> carlos: it is doing a generic job.
<SteveA> that is, it is getting stuff, and passing it along somewhere else
<SteveA> we just ought to have that "somewhere else" as something pluggable
<SteveA> also we need to think about tests for code that goes into launchpad
<SteveA> but you can test the launchpad part in our usual ways
<carlos> good idea
<carlos> that way others interested on KDE imports 
<carlos> could develop a file with the same API
<carlos> so we can integrate it in the same way....
<carlos> zyga, How does it sounds?
<zyga> carlos: fine :-)
<zyga> carlos: any language suits you? I'll be prototyping in bash probably
<SteveA> zyga: i'd recommend the LGPL
<SteveA> and python
<zyga> k
<carlos> zyga, yes, python, please...
<carlos> zyga, let me look into jordi's email and we will talk about this later, ok?
<zyga> fine
<zyga> thanks
<carlos> zyga, thanks to you for your offer
<cprov> morning guys
<zyga> carlos: the thing is in motion, gnomepl.org is notified and I'm looking into the script
<carlos> cool
<carlos> zyga, I think you will need the .xml file we are using to generate the l10n-status.gnome.org pages
<carlos> zyga, at least as a hint so you don't need to parse .html code
<zyga> carlos: could be useful :-)
<zyga> carlos: we?
<matsubara> good morning!
<carlos> zyga, yeah
<carlos> jordi, I think it's ok
<carlos> jordi, the only addition I think you should do there is about upstream imports of GNOME and KDE products
<zyga> carlos: so how do I get that .xml file?
<BjornT> if bzr tells me that there were conflicts while merging, how do i get bzr to tell me in which files the conflicts occurred?
<carlos> those will be done automatically and we will get the updates automatically too so it's an exception
<carlos> jordi, also the translators will be locked to be the same as upstream
<carlos> zyga, it's at cvs.gnome.org
<carlos> zyga, but I can copy it to l10n-status.gnome.org so it's easier for you
<jordi> carlos: for GNU/Debian/KDE/GNOME you mean?
<carlos> jordi, for any upstream imports, yes
<carlos> the main targets now are GNOME and KDE
<zyga> carlos: please do
<niemeyer> Good morning
<carlos> niemeyer, matsubara morning
<matsubara> BjornT: bzr conflicts?
<carlos> zyga, oh, we have it already :-P
<carlos> http://l10n-status.gnome.org/translation-status.xml
<carlos> zyga, it's updated automatically with every page updated
<carlos> s/updated/update/
<jordi> carlos: not for "any". There are imports that just don't have any kind of translation group behind
<carlos> jordi, any handled automatically and that has their own translation team. Better now?
* BjornT thinks that bzr really needs better documentation
<jordi> handled automatically?
<SteveA> BjornT: talk to jblack about what documentation you'd like to see.
<SteveA> lifeless: ain't that so?
<carlos> jordi, yes, zyga is going to help us to do automatic imports from GNOME into Rosetta
<carlos> jordi, with a script, just like Ubuntu imports
<jordi> oh, ok. I was talking about imports in general
<jordi> ok
<BjornT> matsubara: thanks, didn't know about that command. too bad it didn't tell me anything, though
<sivang> zyga: how is that going to work , out of curiosity?
<BjornT> SteveA: ok, i will. i good start would be that 'bzr help' told me all the commands that are available
* zyga is busy with RL job, I'll aswer all questions in 5 minutes
<SteveA> BjornT: the last item with 'bzr help' is 'bzr help commands  list all commands'
<SteveA> carlos, jordi: it is time
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> what wiki page should i look at?
<carlos> SteveA, jordi sent it by email
<SteveA> ok
* SteveA reads
<BjornT> SteveA: hmm, don't know how i managed to miss that. probably because it was grouped together with an example.
<SteveA> would you call gettext an application?
<SteveA> i'm thinking that products in launchpad are applications and libraries and perhaps other things too
<carlos> SteveA, gettext has commands too so it's also an application...
<jordi> SteveA: is that question related to the doc?
<SteveA> yes
<zyga> sivang: as far as I understand: fetch stuff from l10n-status.gnome.org, create tuple: (product, branch, language-list) and be able to use that data to get a .po for every language and the .pot for every branch
<SteveA> so, i want to talk about what "rosetta official" means
<jordi> yeah, that isn't clear enough.
<SteveA> i can think of two realted, but different things
<SteveA> 1. when rosetta is the main way that an application is translated
<jordi> SteveA: what's the other one?
<sivang> zyga: sounds simple enough to be cool :)
<SteveA> 2. when the application mantainer is happy with people using rosetta for translating it, and will sync up with rosetta (both directions) often
<SteveA> i guess the distinction doesn't matter, as far as translators are concerned, provided that in the second case the syncing happens well and often
<zyga> sivang: I sure hope so
<carlos> zyga, yeah, it's that more or less
<carlos> SteveA, right
<lifeless> SteveA: aint what so ?
<SteveA> SteveA BjornT: talk to jblack about what documentation you'd like to see.
<SteveA> SteveA lifeless: ain't that so?
<zyga> carlos: can you recommend xml-io and url-io stuff? :)
<zyga> pycurl for the latter lacks docs
<zyga> various python-to-xml serializers produce crappy output
<SteveA> python has urllib and httplib in the standard library
<carlos> zyga, we use urllib2 for http
<SteveA> also in the standard library
<carlos> about xml... SteveA, any suggestion?
<SteveA> what's the xml for?
<SteveA> and, can we please focus on translation policy for a few more minutes...
<carlos> sure, sorry
<SteveA> jordi: the doc reads well.  it does presuppose that the reader understands the distinction we make between packages and products
<SteveA> i was confused by that, so that's why i asked carlos a bunch of questions and drew that diagram
<SteveA> that is, i was confused by how translations work with respect to packages and to products in rosetta
<jordi> SteveA: would an explanation of both at the begining work?
<jordi> SteveA: that is covered by the doc, is it?
<jordi> I mean, I talk about how both work
<jordi> one is byhand, the other automatic
* zyga goes out for 0.5h
<SteveA> that says how the templates get into rosetta
<SteveA> it doesn't explain why the package ones aren't the same as the product ones
<jordi> ok
<SteveA> or why someone would translate one rather than the other
<jordi> will clarfy
<jordi> where does this belong? launchpad wiki or ubuntu?
<SteveA> launchpad wiki
<SteveA> as it is about the policy for upstream
<SteveA> also, the doc should read more like "this is the policy"
<jordi> ok
<SteveA> rather than in terms of old policy and here's a new policy
<lifeless> lamont-away: yes, jblack is the doco king
<SteveA> because it is stating what we intend to do now
<jordi> nod
<jordi> ok 1 - "This is the policy"
<jordi> 2 - Clarify distro vs products
<jordi> 3 - permissions for GNOME/KDE/GNU/etc packages
<jordi> I think that's it.
<SteveA> i think the policy is good.  we should go with it for a while, and see how translators and upstream maintainers respond to it.  keep a careful note of places where there's a problem, where there are people who want to translate, but the upstream isn't keen on it.
<SteveA> i think the "official rosetta" thing needs some refinement
<jordi> ok
<sivang> bit OT, if I have an Ubuntu bug - can I report it in malone or should I report it in bugzilla ?
<SteveA> i can see that some projects (like Silva) who have chosen to use rosetta as their primary place for translation would accept the "official rosetta project" tag
<SteveA> sivang: if it is in Main, bugzilla.  Universe, launchpad.
<SteveA> but, i can see people being surprised and maybe a little taken aback, if they say "yeah, we're cool with rosetta" and suddenly they're "official rosetta users"
<SteveA> the doc should say "here's what 'official rosetta-using project' means:"
<sivang> SteveA: ah still? I would have thought starting to open new main bugs in launchpad could mean more "QA" cycles for malone, what's holding back from using malone as primary bug tracker?
<SteveA> and that means either
<SteveA> 1. rosetta is the primary means of translation for this, or
<SteveA> 2. someone is making the commitment to sync often with CVS or whatever
<SteveA> and also, maybe we should make that distinction in the data model for products.  carlos?
<SteveA> sivang: we're importing the stuff from bugzilla into launchpad really soon.
<SteveA> the software is written. it is being tested on staging now
<carlos> SteveA, I suppose it's a matter of expand the current data model
<carlos> so we have Rosetta official, Rosetta friendly or don't care at all
<jordi> SteveA: what's the meaning of "official", in your eyes?
<SteveA> rosetta primary, rosetta will-sync, unknown
<carlos> jordi, when upstream will only accept translations from Rosetta
<jordi> nod
<sivang> SteveA: ah ok, good
<SteveA> it's really about where the integration occurs
<SteveA> does it occur in rosetta?  does it occur elsewhere?  does it not occur.
<sivang> for the record, I would prefer hundred times more using malone istead of the slow bugzilla to report bugs :)
<jordi> well, there's no real "integration" right now.
<jordi> not until bzr exports
<SteveA> in the case where rosetta is the primary means of translation, integration occurs in rosetta
<SteveA> there's a lot of effort in the rosetta code and tests to do that well
<SteveA> in the case where rosetta is used as a source of translations, and is synced often, then rosetta is still an important tool for integration, but the process is run externally to rosetta
<SteveA> by someone who is interested in these things, from upstream
<SteveA> when the situation is unknown, probably no integration occurs, and people get annoyed that they are doing repeated work, or their work is not used.
<carlos> so the first case is Ubuntu's case, right?
<carlos> with language packs
<SteveA> who will keep track of when the policy hasn't worked well, of when there are willing translators of a product, but upstream aren't interested yet?
<SteveA> carlos: i don't think ubuntu is in this part of the model.  the policy doesn't apply, because it applies only to products.  not to distros or SPs
<carlos> SteveA, then the option #1 will not be possible at all until we have the bzr integration
<carlos> for products
<SteveA> option number one being?
<SteveA> the product Silva is already a "rosetta-primary" product.
<carlos> in the case where rosetta is the primary means of translation, integration occurs in rosetta
<SteveA> sure, there's no fancy bzr integration
<carlos> SteveA there's a lot of effort in the rosetta code and tests to do that well
<SteveA> but they don't do any translation now, except via rosetta
<SteveA> they download new po files from rosetta
<carlos> SteveA, then I don't see the difference with the option of 'in the case where rosetta is used as a source of translations, and is synced often, then rosetta is still an important tool for integration, but the process is run externally to rosetta"
<SteveA> they don't do translation in their CVS
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> so, there is no syncing to do
<SteveA> it is simple
<SteveA> they just get translations from rosetta
<carlos> I see it now
<SteveA> http://www.infrae.com/newsitems/silva_translations
<SteveA> here
<SteveA> nice example
<carlos> SteveA, ok
* sivang is joyed to see upstream projects using rosetta as their sole translation portal
<SteveA> jordi: please also add to the doc that we'll review this policy at the end of January
<SteveA> carlos, jordi: who will keep track of when the policy hasn't worked well, of when there are willing translators of a product, but upstream aren't interested yet?
<carlos> jordi, would you do it ?
<zyga> guys
<zyga> #ubuntu-translators have been working on a wiki page for translator newcomers
<zyga> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslationTeam
<zyga> it might be interesting for you
<carlos> zyga, cool, thanks
<zyga> we intend to promote that as the entry portal for all translators
<carlos> we should point there as part of the RosettaFAQ 
<zyga> the main wiki
<zyga> :-)
<carlos> jordi, could you add it as the answer for... 'How could I translate Ubuntu?' or something like that
<zyga> jordi: please join #u-translators, and take a look at the wiki in question
<carlos> SteveA, anything else?
<SteveA> i'd like to hear from jordi before we end the meeting
<SteveA> but i think we have a workable plan for this now
<SteveA> carlos: we need a bug for extending the 'official rosetta project' flag
<carlos> ok, I will handle that
<SteveA> thx
<salgado> hey SteveA
<BjornT> hmm, has anyone seen this error before while running tests? *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (!prev): 0x09b90b70 ***
<matsubara> I've seen
<zyga> BjornT: 99% it's an application bug
<BjornT> matsubara: did you find out what the problem was? (or how to work around it?)
<matsubara> BjornT: nope :(
<matsubara> BjornT: but apparently the tests are running fine...
<jordi> sorry, was afk
<BjornT> matsubara: not for me, the test run is aborted
<StevenK> I keep seeing that with Perl using readline. The exit() handler gets tied up in knots and does that and cops a SIGABRT for its trouble.
<StevenK> However, my knowledge of perlguts is nil, at best. :-)
<matsubara> BjornT: let me know if you find out why this is happening.
<sivang> lifeless: would you be able to toss me a link to the relevant debian-devel thread re:automated testing ?
<jordi> SteveA, carlos: please excuse me, I'm busy for the next 15 mins at the office
<jordi> will reply to this soon
<carlos> ok
<carlos> jordi, I will go out to have lunch so I will be out for a couple of hours
<carlos> that will be in about 30 minutes or so
<jordi> ok
* mode/#launchpad [+o lifeless]  by ChanServ
<SteveA> BjornT: if you get it reproducable, send details to jamesh
<SteveA> jordi: okay.  please say if you get busy in the office, so we're not left hanging
<jordi> ok
* mode/#launchpad [-o lifeless]  by lifeless
<BjornT> SteveA: i could tar down the working tree and see if it's reproducable on another machine. but in a clean launchpad tree the same test passes, and i haven't made any changes that should affect the test
<SteveA> carlos: sent you review
<carlos> SteveA, thanks!
<SteveA> BjornT: probably something subtle in a C extension not cleaning up after itself
<SteveA> if it does fail predictably for you, it is worth trying elsewhere
<SteveA> with exactly the same tree
<BjornT> yeah, i'll do that
<jordi> SteveA: am I suposseed to get one of those review mails from claire?
<carlos> zyga, I need to leave now to have lunch, could we talk about the API for your python code when I'm back?
* carlos -> out
<zyga> carlos: sure
<Kinnison> Gods, if I was feeling less generous, I'd blacklist "Barry Warsaw" from my mail servers
* Kinnison replies to bug 4746 out of the goodness of his heart and gets an annoying automated reply from him
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4746: Launchpad does not accept older GPG fingerprint formats Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4746
<Kinnison> The least he could have done is set his launchpad preferred email to one which doesn't generate the autoreply
* Kinnison sighs
<SteveA> Kinnison: you missed the "... because <reason>" out from the comment on the bug
<SteveA> or whether we ever wil do so
<SteveA> jordi: yes.  they haven't been sent out yet.  will be a little later today
<jordi> SteveA: ok
<Kinnison> SteveA: I realised that after submitting, and was going to go back and be more helpful, and then his autoresponder pissed me off
<salgado> SteveA, would you like to talk about that ProperSignUpWorkflow spec?
<Kinnison> SteveA: when I'm less angry, I'll go back and explain more
<SteveA> Kinnison: if only we could file bugs on People
<SteveA> you could file one on barry
* Kinnison grins
* SteveA prods barry's autoresponder
<SteveA> seems it sends just one email to an address
<Kinnison> right
* SteveA gets lunch
<kiko> morning
<jordi> SteveA: damn, I missed you.
<jordi> I don't know if I have the "official" stuff too clear.
<kiko> jordi?
<stub> jamesh: I just killed your pqm merge btw - cscvs tests strike again.
<WaterSevenUb> just wondering... is someone developing Rosetta documentation at the moment which is not available in the wiki?
<WaterSevenUb> howto translate, howto use rosetta for project translation, howto.... stuff like that
<jordi> kiko
<kiko> stub!
<kiko> how's it going man?
<stub> kiko: Good enough
<kiko> jordi, what did you miss from SteveA?
<kiko> has anyone seen mpt around?
<stub> kiko: So is Gina ready as far as you are concerned?
<jordi> what to add regarding what "official rosetta" means
<jordi> kiko: goood morning dude
<kiko> stub, she is. let me check if rf contains all my patches.
<stub> kiko: Anyone else need to give their stamp of approval to her?
<kiko> not that I'm aware of
<kiko> gustavo found a little bug in an error message I will fix now
<stub> ok. So we are ready to go as soon as I land this LibrarianGarbageCollection branch and test it on staging
<Kinnison> stub: define "ready to go" ?
<stub> Kinnison: Run Gina on production against warty, hoary and breezy all architectures
<stub> Kinnison: Or have you got a spanner to contribute to the works?
<Kinnison> stub: I wouldn't do that until mdz is happy
<Kinnison> stub: it'd be an arse to have to nuke it out of the production db and run her again
<stub> kiko: Do you know if mdz is happy with the current state? Or does he need to have another look? Gina hasn't been run on staging since UBZ so I'd assumed he was happy with the state.
<kiko> stub, we had a meeting yesterday about this. there are inconsistencies in the original archive that makes it difficult to parse the entire diff, but the general feeling was we should keep running it on staging until we have something that mdz and I bless as golden. the last run we were still missing some headers, a problem which we believe Kinnison has fixed
<kiko> stub, I spoke to elmo yesterday and he said that staging was starting to get really full. I assume this is because the librarian is getting full of gina-produced stuff, right?
<stub> Yes
<kiko> stub, so let me just check that rocketfuel has all my latest patches and we should be good for a re-run
<stub> ok. I'll land LibrarianGarbageStorage tonight, if pqm is nice, and run it against staging tomorrow. And then Gina again. You want I clean out all the records again or sync with the production db?
<kiko> stub, syncing the production db sounds good -- we'd like to do a full run (though tbh the issues we found were in the publisher -- gina is unchanged from her last run)
<stub> Ok. Nuking the DB fine with you Kinnison? Or is there stuff you can't happily rebuild in there at the moment you need to work with?
<stub> jamesh's Bugzilla stuff can be rerun whenever.
<Kinnison> you can rebuild, that's fine
<kiko> Kinnison, did you note my comment above -- I don't actually think a new gina run is useful..
<Kinnison> kiko: in an of itself, probably not, but it'd be good to have a fresh run in order to confirm that nothing's gone wrong with any of the cases not tested during the incremental runs
<Kinnison> kiko: Given the run against production will be a fresh run, it's worth it to have one or two full fresh runs between now and production, don't you think?
<kiko> Kinnison, yes, that's fine
<jordi> SteveA, kiko: will be back
<salgado> stub, did we have a production rollout this week already?
<stub> salgado: No. Been having bzr problems which have delayed them.
<SteveA> back
<kiko> bradb, ping?
<bradb> kiko: hi
<kiko> bradb, remind me how we access the advanced search form at the moment.
<bradb> kiko: it's that ugly "Advanced Search (3)" link in the search lists portlet
<kiko> bradb, the interesting part is that that portlet is missing from the pages under /people
<kiko> so I can't see, for instance, which bugs you have fixed.
<kiko> so 
<bradb> yes, so is the actions portlet
<kiko> a) is there a URL hack that can get me there?
<bradb> (well, the "Report a Bug" link, in any case)
<kiko> b) how should we expose the advanced search link better?
<kiko> bradb, why don't you make the link to the advanced search a part of the avanced search macro itself?
<bradb> kiko: I can bring the search stuff over into FOAF.
<kiko> bradb, there is already searching in FOAF, you realize?
<kiko> it's just basic.
<bradb> yep
<kiko> I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to unify these things and offer both basic and advanced search everywhere we offer searching.
<kiko> what do you think?
<bradb> yeah, probably
<kiko> should I file a bug?
<bradb> I still have my malone-search branch, that I started at UBZ, to make this look somewhat better
<bradb> kiko: sure
<kiko> okay, cool.
<kiko> bradb, and as for question a) above?
<bradb> kiko: there's no URL that I know of to get you there
<kiko> search=Advanced wouldn't work, would it?
<salgado> kiko, no, there isn't one. that +bugs-advanced page is not registered under IPerson
<kiko> okay.
<kiko> bradb, salgado: filed bug 4772.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #477: ftpd (Ubuntu) - Config of pure-ftpd need to be simplified. Fix req. for: pure-ftpd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/477
<salgado> I guess it should be easy to do so, but we need to specify that the context is not a bug target, and thus some widgets (like the milestone one) should be hidden
<bradb> kiko: thanks
* bradb looks at Ubugtu 
<bradb> bug 1234
<Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
<kiko> Seveas, what's got into Ubugtu? :)
<bradb> bug 3111
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3111: buildd (upstream) - Use gzip python library instead of sys call for compressing buildlogs Fix req. for: launchpad-buildd (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3111
<bradb> !?
<bradb> bug 4772
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4772: Allow advanced searching in FOAF (and elsewhere) Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4772
<bradb> !
<Seveas> that's --- odd
* bradb wonders if it can possibly have to do with encoding
<ddaa> Hey there. I'd like to know if anybody can point a place when ProductSeriesSet is _actually_ used?
<Seveas> bug 4772.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #477: ftpd (Ubuntu) - Config of pure-ftpd need to be simplified. Fix req. for: pure-ftpd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/477
<Seveas> it
<Seveas> it's the '.'
<Seveas> freaky
<kiko> you also need to watch out for "," ";" ":" and "?"
<bradb> When Regexes Go Bad?
<kiko> bug 4772, the bug of doom.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4772: Allow advanced searching in FOAF (and elsewhere) Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4772
<kiko> bug 4772: when good bugs go bad
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4772: Allow advanced searching in FOAF (and elsewhere) Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4772
<Seveas> bug 4772. evil.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #477: ftpd (Ubuntu) - Config of pure-ftpd need to be simplified. Fix req. for: pure-ftpd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/477
<kiko> what do you mean you haven't fixed bug 4772?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4772: Allow advanced searching in FOAF (and elsewhere) Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4772
<bradb> heh
<kiko> I used to like bug 4772; now I hate it.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4772: Allow advanced searching in FOAF (and elsewhere) Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4772
<kiko> okay, only "." seems to be an issue.
<Seveas> r"""\b(?P<bz>(((malone|ubuntu|gnome) )?bug|malone|ubuntu|gnome))\b(?:id|ids|#)?\s+(?:id|ids|#)?(? P<bug>\d+)([^\.] |(?<!2)\.|$)"""
<Seveas> that's the bad regex
<kiko> porn!
<Seveas> kiko, if you get turned on by regexes, you should see the 13-line regex that parses a malone webpage :)
<ddaa> kiko: you're sick
<sivang> lol
<kiko> ddaa, you mean you don't see the naked babe there?
<ddaa> I do see many brakets and pipes.
<Seveas> !reload bugzilla
<Ubugtu> Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
<ddaa> But my imagination obviously does not go as far as yours.
<Seveas> !reload bugzilla
<Ubugtu> The operation succeeded.
<bradb> Seveas: the [^\.]  seems unnecessary
<Seveas> bug 4772. evil.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4772: Allow advanced searching in FOAF (and elsewhere) Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4772
<kiko> brackets and pipes == babes
<kiko> thanks Seveas 
<Seveas> bradb, indeed, but that part of the code isn't mine so I blame me for carelessly copying regexes
<bradb> Seveas: Where did you get it from?
<Seveas> standard supybot bugzilla plugin
<Seveas> I'm still rewriting it - the next version will include malone (and possibly debbugs) support in a less-hackish way and will most likely be included with supybot
<bradb> mdz: ping
<ddaa> gasp... lifeless to lead the review team...
<ddaa> this guy cannot tell pep8 from GCS
<kiko> I would rather ddaa lead the review team
* kiko runs
<ddaa> kiko: I'm just to much of a perfectionist bastard.
<ddaa> I'm trying to learn and be more flexible.
* bradb would rather pqm lead the review team
<kiko> having lifeless lead it will mean that reviewers will start paying a lot more attention to testing, hopefully
<sivang> bradb: but pqm is no human :)
<ddaa> That would probably be a good thing. But that would probably expose how expensive good test coverage is.
<ddaa> Though, I'm all for requiring at least decent test coverage.
<kiko> in terms of runtime or developer time?
<ddaa> In term of devel time.
* bradb expects the tests should take somewhat longer to run once when upgrade to a new version of Z3, and I'm able to (practically) test a bunch of things that aren't tested (i.e. lots of form submissions, link clicks, etc.)
<ddaa> in term of runtime, it needs not be so expensive, with a good test framework
<niemeyer> kiko: Please, not ddaa.. ddaa complained that there were spaces inside a function once.
<niemeyer> :-)
<ddaa> vertical space
<ddaa> it's like comments
<ddaa> it's a deodorant
* bradb complains about trailing whitespace
<ddaa> if you need blank lines in a method
* SteveA complains about the French, and deodorants
<ddaa> then you probably should be splitting the method in smaller methods
<niemeyer> bradb: Vertical white spaces..
* sivang ROTFLs
<kiko> niemeyer, yes, there's "too much whitespace here, let's add a portlet"
<SteveA> we need ascii art portlets in our code
<ddaa> niemeyer: but I fully accept that this requirement is more of personal preferenc thing
<niemeyer> bradb: (like, one empty line between two blocks of code)
<ddaa> yet I'd love the review folk to enforce it.
<SteveA> PJE used to put whole pages of blank lines between sections of a module
<SteveA> i found that very odd
* SteveA assigns ddaa to lead the bikeshed painting team
* bradb read an article about a building design that made me think of portlets the other day
* ddaa is offended
* bradb tries to locate the article
<Seveas> If you need people to test the UI, I'd be happy to help out...
<ddaa> SteveA: yesterday, lifeless asked me not to call the bazaar scanning daemon bazaard. I'm not sure which one of us was bikeshedding.
<SteveA> it needs a "t"
<SteveA> baztaard
<bradb> http://www.metropolismag.com/cda/story.php?artid=1595
<ddaa> dunno, that makes it sound like "mustaard"
<bradb> the air conditioner units remind of the portlets, in some senses
<bradb> so, basically, i had this view of a typical lp page whose design could overcome the presence of portlets in the way that this building overcomes the presences of air conditioners: http://www.metropolismag.com/cda/popup_image.php?imageid=4837&tablebgcolor=e4e4e4&width=500&height=375
<sivang> bazaard :)
<bradb> boxes boxes everywhere!
<niemeyer> LOL
<Seveas> bradb is going nuts :)
* sivang notes he really laughed wheh elmo noted "we are using a bastardized version of userdir-ldap" :)
* sivang also notes he may have not caught on the pun, Still wondering...
<bradb> Seveas: Re: testing the UI: we've been fortunate enough to have gathered a huge amount of user input on the UI already. https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/DistroTeamOneOnOne
<bradb> to the point that the common problem areas are very well known. there's a lot of overlap in terms of what the Ubuntu developers find difficult about Malone, for example.
<kiko> bradb, I was about to say exactly that to Seveas 
<kiko> bradb, could you format your entries in that page to not be inside a big pre block?
<bradb> sure
<kiko> you appear to have used wiki markup but didn't take advantage of it :)
<bradb> kiko: No, I had a big text dump of information, started turning it into something that would make moin happy, and then went "bah, I'll just wrap it in {{{ }}} for now"
<stub> Anyone need me before I go to bed?
<bradb> stub: any news on that db patch?
<niemeyer> stub: Sleep well!
<bradb> stub: i.e. PackageBugContacts, .bugcontact, etc.
<kiko> heh
<stub> bradb: That all looks fine, except it needs comments
<bradb> stub: ok
<stub> bradb: But there is enough info in the email for me to add them. I'll merge that tomorrow (got stuck with my own branches today :-/ )
<bradb> stub: That'd be great. Thanks a lot.
<stub> Unless it is urgent, in which case I can give you a patch number and you stick it in one of your own branches
<bradb> not urgent
<stub> Night!
* stub buggers off
<niemeyer> Half of the methods in database.branch.Branch are like_this, and the other half is likeThat.
<niemeyer> Is there a established convention for this?
<SteveA> not yet
* bradb finds foo_bar much nicer, personally
<SteveA> propose a convention for launchpad on the launchpad list
<SteveA> personally, i like foo_bar for properties and attributes, and module level functions, and fooBar for methods.  but that's kinda irrational and personal.
<niemeyer> FOr launchpad, it may make sense to use foo_bar for methods as well. This is cleaner when using these methods in templates
<SteveA> sounds like a good rationale
<carlos> jordi, hi, I'm back
<carlos> zyga, ping
<kiko-fud> niemeyer, I may need some of your time shortly
<niemeyer> kiko: Just ping me
* bradb & # lunch
<niemeyer> This scheme of importing everything e.g under database/ and interfaces/ is quite practical. But I wonder how it hurts startup time and memory consumption.
<niemeyer> For the webserver, it doesn't really matter.. but for scripts that startup and die often, it might make a difference.
<SteveA> startup time for launchpad -- not at all
<SteveA> start up time for scripts, sure
<SteveA> but i think a bigger problem for scripts is that the zcml they use reads in more stuff than it needs to
<SteveA> we could do better there, and that would make scripts quite a bit faster
<niemeyer> Indeed.. just to get utilities, often.
<SteveA> utilities and adapters and security
<SteveA> i'll be doing some optimisation work there once we've upgraded zope3
<SteveA> because there are more facilities to control the loading of zcml in different situations
<SteveA> i hacked one such thing for scripts, but i don't want to maintain it
<niemeyer> Nice!
<zyga> carlos: pong
<zyga> carlos: about the api :)
<zyga> carlos: just msg me on priv, I'll be looking at the other monitor
<niemeyer> kiko: Have you approved my subscription in the launchpad-review list?
<kiko> not yet, I haven't gotten to that folder yet
<niemeyer> :)
<mdz> bradb: pong
<mdz> kiko: do we have a new staging archive for comparison?
<gneuman> j #async
<gneuman> j #launchpad
<Kinnison> mdz: I'm waiting on the say-so for me to re-run the publisher
<Kinnison> mdz: Dunno when gina will be done
<carlos> zyga, ok
<kiko> mdz, no, but we will tomorrow. actually.. Kinnison, how about re-running just the publisher?
<kiko> mdz, we don't really need a new gina run.
<kiko> (though we want to do one to ensure we still work with the current database)
* Kinnison will set the publisher off now
<mdz> kiko: we don't?
<mdz> kiko: the production archive has changed since the last one
<mdz> kiko: unless we stopped updating the local copy, it won't compare correctly anymore
<kiko> shucks.
<kiko> you're right.
<kiko> mdz, but hey, wait.
<kiko> mdz, the production archive didn't change for warty and hoary and breezy except for security, I imagine?
<kiko> so we can at least ensure that those are 100%
<salgado> kiko, what do you think of storing the country/continent relation in a table? (I guess I could use this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_continent_%28data_file%29 )
<mdz> kiko: I've forgotten where the most recent set of inconsistencies were
<kiko> salgado, for reports? I'm happy with that.
<SteveA> salgado: just make it a function, and plug into that it hardcoded into a single python module, perhaps
<kiko> SteveA, but.. how do you connect database countries with continents?
<SteveA> unless you want it to take part in sql queries...
<salgado> yes, for the shipit reports
<kiko> are you proposing keeping country names or ids in the file?
<SteveA> i guess it will have to be then
<kiko> salgado, I think it's strange that you are considering putting the /relation/ in a table
<kiko> err
<kiko> relationship more properly
<kiko> wouldn't country have a continent column
<kiko> and we have a continents table?
<salgado> I thought of creating a Continent table with the continent names and codes
<salgado> and the country table would then have a foreign key to the continent one
<kiko> ah
<kiko> that makes more sense
<SteveA> russia is in europe and asia
<kiko> eurasia!
<kiko> next!
<SteveA> EMEA
<SteveA> i hate seeing "emea" in urls and websites
<SteveA> especially when a company won't sell me stuff cos I'm not in n. america
<SteveA> and i need to use their substandard EMEA site
* SteveA goes running
<ddaa> kiko: hey, I'd like to remove the existing ProductSeriesSet, since it appears to be only cruft. The only bit that seems to be functional about it is the redirect from $product/+series to $product. How can I implement that simply?
<kiko> you could just register the view on a different content object, I guess
<kiko> perhaps on product itself
<Kinnison> mdz: publishing run finished
<mdz> Kinnison: drescher?
<ddaa> kiko: nevermind, that redirect is broken ATM :)
<Kinnison> mdz: aye
<mdz> Kinnison: output in ~mdz/compare/current
<mdz> cat old/*(.) |diffstat
<mdz>  - |18234 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------------------------------- 1 files changed, 7940 insertions(+), 10294 deletions(-)
<mdz> drescher:[~/compare]  cat current/* |diffstat
<mdz>  - |43458 +++++++++++++++------------------------------------------------------- 1 files changed, 9914 insertions(+), 33544 deletions(-)
<mdz> (surely larger due to no gina run)
<kiko> mdz, since we know that dapper and -security is broken, can we just run over the ones we know should be okay?
* Kinnison sighs
<mdz> dapper isn't even being compared
<Kinnison> mdz: - is prod, + is LP?
<mdz> is it being imported?
<mdz> Kinnison: correct
<kiko> okay
<kiko> mdz, drop -security then :-/
<mdz> drescher:[~/compare/current]  cat warty.* hoary.* breezy.* |diffstat
<mdz>  - |14678 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------------------- 1 files changed, 7342 insertions(+), 7336 deletions(-)
<mdz> that's excluding all pockets
<Kinnison> mdz: the numbers are close enough that I think that's almost entirely the source priority and the Task headers being wrong in production
<mdz> Kinnison: it's also corrected priorities and sections, so far
<mdz> but I can't eyeball a 70k-line diff right now
<kiko> I can. mdz, can you mail it to me?
<mdz> and if I have to eyeball the whole thing, I want to do it once, for the final production run
<mdz> kiko: I thought you had a drescher account now
<kiko> oh, I do.
<jordi> SteveA: back too.
<jordi> I'm going to inclide the changes we've discussed and post a draft in the wiki.
<sabdfl> Kinnison: ping
<salgado> elmo, pqm strikes again. :-(
<bradb> mdz: hi
<mdz> bradb: meeting now, what's up?
<bradb> mdz: 1. In Bugzilla, presumably "Target Milestone" is the forward looking targeting mechanism, like milestones in malone, right? (Just being paranoid about this to make sure I can tell jamesh how to migrate this data properly. 2. Do you model/track backport fixes in anyway in Bugzilla currently?
<kiko> Kinnison, did you update your soyuz production laundry list?
<mdz> bradb: 1. yes, 2. not explicitly, though backports bugs do end up there sometimes
<bradb> mdz: ok, thanks
<mdz> bradb: or do you mean backports as in -updates and -security?
<bradb> mdz: backports as in making sure a bug gets fixed in all of warty, hoary, breezy and the current release, for example, and tracking the fix in each of those places.
<Kinnison> kiko: oops, not done the wiki page yet
<mdz> bradb: ok, that's entirely ad-hoc at the moment (status whiteboard, title, etc.)
<Kinnison> kiko: I'll get onto that now
<bradb> mdz: ok, that's what i thought, thanks
<kiko> thanks Kinnison 
<Kinnison> kiko: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzRunsUbuntuTaskList
<Kinnison> kiko: that is a basic dump with a little more info
<Kinnison> mdz: ^^
<kiko> thanks
<kiko> Kinnison, what blocks us running the imports through soyuz right now?
<kiko> s/imports/uploads
<elmo> Kinnison: you know about the Releases files being wrong on drescher right?
<elmo> Kinnison: and that you're providing uncompressed Packages files but shouldn't be?
<Kinnison> kiko: the autotest ones, or the dapper ones?
<Kinnison> elmo: How are the releases files wrong?
<Kinnison> elmo: and I can turn off uncompressed packages files
<kiko> Kinnison, the autotest ones would be a beginning :-)
<elmo> +Description: Breezy is the third release of Ubuntu. Breezy is due to be released in October 2005.
<elmo> in the top level
<elmo> +Origin: ubuntu
<elmo> +Label: ubuntu
<elmo> +Architecture: binary-amd64
<elmo> in the per architecture/component
<elmo> it should be 'Ubuntu' and 'amd64', not 'binary-amd64'
<elmo> +Filename: /srv/launchpad.net/staging-archive/ubuntu/pool/main/l/lvm10/lvm10-udeb_1.0.8-8_i386.udeb
<elmo> from ubuntu/dists/breezy/universe/debian-installer/binary-i386/Packages.gz
<elmo> is obviously wrong too
<Kinnison> elmo: the description comes from the database
<Kinnison> elmo: I can capitalise the origin and label, and I'll look into why the binary- isn't being strepped
<Kinnison> erm, stripped
<Kinnison> as for the filename, I haven't a clue (yet)
* Kinnison will stare
<kiko> Kinnison, could it be that you need to use the distro title instead of the name?
<Kinnison> kiko: It might be
* Kinnison thought Origin should match what is used in Origin in the overrides, but is perhaps wrong
<kiko> I am unsure which is correct :-(
<Kinnison> elmo: Should Origin be capitalised in the Packages files too?
<elmo> err, surely it's obvious what's correct?
<elmo> you have a reference implementation
* Kinnison points out that the reference implementation has been known to have hiccoughs
* Kinnison is just being sure, that's all
<Kinnison> Sorry, that came out bitchy
<Kinnison> goddamn I'm tired
* Kinnison just wants to be sure
<elmo> hiccups don't extend to the Release file which is of all about 10 fields being wrong for all suites, all components, all architectures
<elmo> well for the record, in my opinion the obviously correct Origin is 'Ubuntu'
<kiko> easy to fix too
* Kinnison nods
<Kinnison> okay
<kiko> so it's no storm in a teacup
<Kinnison> so, capitalised in releases, not in Packages
* Kinnison can do that
<elmo> err?
<elmo> it's capitalised in both in archive.u.c?
<Kinnison> Oh
* Kinnison is obviously misremembering
* Kinnison is sorry
* Kinnison repeats the sorry excuse of tiredness
* Kinnison has been sat here hacking for 7h almost solid
* Kinnison ought to go and have a break
<kiko> Kinnison, why don't you give me a call in a bit?
<kiko> it might be a good break and I wanted to talk to you
<kiko> I might entertain you with stories from the boston and nyc underground
<Kinnison> kiko: If you want to chat then give me a ring in about 5 minutes. I'm gonna go and grab a pint of water and a biscuit
<kiko> yeah, sure
<kiko> I miss talking to you
<jordi> SteveA: ping
<jordi> carlos: ping
<jordi> carlos, SteveA: I have published the draft with additions in the wiki
<jordi> please have a look at https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaNewImportPolicy to see what's missing
<carlos> jordi, pong
<carlos> jordi, I need to go out for an hour or so I will give you some input as soon as I'm back. Ok?
<jordi> carlos: I'll be leaving soonish too
<SteveA> jordi: hi
<jordi> but mail/IRC works
<carlos> jordi, ok, then I will give you the input by email
<jordi> carlos: I'll see if I can have SteveA to look at it :)
<carlos> see you later!
<jordi> wb SteveA 
* carlos -> out
<jordi> laters carlos 
<jordi> SteveA: ok, I think I added your issues to the doc. Can you go over it now?
<SteveA> jordi: i will do shortly
<jordi> I probably need to add your img
<jordi> but I'm not sure wher.e
<jordi> feel free though
<jordi> SteveA: tell me when you're ready
<jordi> I should go in about 20
<elmo> ok, how do I break hardlinks in python?
<elmo> apparently open('foo', 'w') doesn't
<niemeyer> SteveA: Are you feeling like a reviewer today? :)
<kiko> elmo, does open(2) break hardlinks?
<ddaa> elmo: as everywhere else, rename and copy back
<ddaa> posix does not seem to have any provision for breaking links... which is kind of weird since there's explicit support for creating them.
<kiko> or open, read, and write?
<ddaa> kiko: if you do that, you need to unlink between the read and the write
<kiko> right, I missed the unlink.
<ddaa> e.g "cp a b" will _not_ break hardlinks to b.
<ddaa> Which is a rock one probably has to trip on.
<SteveA> jordi: remind me of the URL please
<SteveA> ah got it
<jordi> k
<kiko> SteveA, mdz, niemeyer: you have mail
<jordi> just on time for my workrave :)
<kiko> bradb, ping?
<mdz> ddaa: the inverse operation is unlink(2) :-P
<bradb> kiko: hi
<kiko> did you and SteveA reach closure on X-Lauchpad-Bug versus X-Malone-Bug?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> all done
<bradb> kiko: it already landed
<kiko> I know
<kiko> that's not what I asked though :)
<ddaa> mdz: that's usually not what one means by "breaking a hardlink" :)
<kiko> bradb, so?
<bradb> kiko: I don't think it was worth the rename, if that's what you're asking.
<SteveA> jordi: very good, and very clear
<bradb> kiko: I didn't think it was worth bikeshedding about though.
<siretart> are you launchpad devs happy with pyme?
<jordi> SteveA: is it?
<SteveA> the explanation is clear, so there is no need for the diagram any more.
<SteveA> now we just need the suggested email 
<jordi> SteveA: good. When I read it, I still think it's a bit messy
<siretart> I need to do stuff with gnupg in python, and I am looking for an gnupg module for python
<jordi> I'll make improvements
<SteveA> ok
<jordi> SteveA: should mark have a look at this before I post in the list?
<jordi> or is it ready to go?
<jordi> (it's missing the template, but that's minor and can do it in 10 mins if I get ahold of a keyboard tonight)
<SteveA> we're fine.  the other part is, we'll keep to this policy until end of jan, and see if we've missed any upstreams in that time
<SteveA> if so, we adjust
<jordi> ok
<jordi> I will try to keep track of what requests were rejected, if that's what you mean with keeping track
<SteveA> there's that internal wiki page for that
<jordi> I have a queue of held requests already
<jordi> yup
<SteveA> also, mention them to me / kiko / carlos
<jordi> k. that's the canonical wiki?
<SteveA> yes
<jordi> ok. I'll try to post today, but not sure if I'll be able. if not, tomorrow morning
<SteveA> because i don't want us to look like we're putting any pressure on them calling them "bad projects who don't like rosetta" or that kind of thing
<jordi> good night, going for dinner/cinema
<jordi> heh, yes
<SteveA> of course, we're not doing that, but it would be misinterpreted
<jordi> yeah.
<jordi> ttyl
<kiko> bradb, can you do a quick change to X-Launchpad-Bug: before the next rollout? it's much more appropriate, I just hadn't considered the problem
<bradb> kiko: what do you mean "a quick change"? X-Launchpad-Bug has already landed.
<kiko> bradb, your commit message and your post above said X-Malone-Bug.
<bradb> my post above was referring to X-Launchpad-Bug (i didn't mention X-Malone-Bug)
<bradb> and there's a commit message with the X-Launchpad-Bug rename later on
<kiko> ah
<kiko> sorry, I guess I read too deep. thanks.
<bradb> np
<bradb> there's another rename coming your way in pqm ;)
<ddaa> kiko: feel up for a very quick review?
<jordi> that was easy
<jordi> gf not at home, I take her laptop :)
<LaserJock> is it possible yet to see a list of subscribed bugs on launchpad?
<ddaa> LaserJock: you mean the list of bugs you are subscribed to?
<sivang> jordi: what kind of a machien does she have?
<jordi> sivang: awful laptop, with Windows XP _in Spanish_
<jordi> thank god for PuTTY
<sivang> jordi: I'm too spoiled to even using PuTTY now :)
<LaserJock> ddaa: yes
<sivang> jordi: and I really dislike the fact it's doesn't handle UTF nicely when connected from Windows
<ddaa> LaserJock: well... that feature seems missing... at least I cannot find it.
<jordi> sivang: this is what there is
<jordi> I need to use this or watch TV
<ddaa> bradb: !
<jordi> or just sit and wait
<jordi> :)
<jordi> what do you mean it doesn't do UTF-8?
<jordi> hl
<LaserJock> ddaa: when you subscribe to a bug it says something about being able to view it from your launchpad page but I can't find it
<ddaa> Well, that feature sure _used_ to be there.
<ddaa> The guy to make miserable about malone UI is bradb.
<LaserJock> ddaa: hmm, hasn't been for me for like a month
<sivang> jordi: ah, then that's heaven , watching TV fries your brain
<bradb> LaserJock: Hm, I can't find a bug open on that. I'll open one now. (Quite a few people have asked for it.)
<LaserJock> bradb: cool, thanks.
<ddaa> hey kiko, want to do an almost trivial review, for a patch consisting entirely of deletions?
<bradb> LaserJock: bug 4788. i subscribed you too so you are notified when it's fixed.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4788: Should be able to see a list of bugs subscribed to Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4788
<LaserJock> bradb: very cool
<salgado> bradb, LaserJock, the fix for bug 4788 is already in rocketfuel, just waiting for the next rollout
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4788: Should be able to see a list of bugs subscribed to Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4788
<bradb> salgado: i thought i remembered seeing somebody working on it at UBZ :)
<LaserJock> salgado: when would that be?
<salgado> bradb, actually, it was matsubara who wrote
<bradb> ah
<salgado> bradb, and you reviewed the first version. but he had to change lots of stuff because I rewrote all that buglisting pages in foaf
<salgado> LaserJock, in one or two days, at most
<LaserJock> salgado: oh wow, sweet
<bradb> oh, yeah, i remember suggesting a different title for the link
<elmo> Kinnison: is there any documentation on how you handle stuff being in different components in different suites but having the same version?
<elmo> Kinnison: alternatively, where in the code should I be looking?
<jordi> ok
<carlos> jordi, I'm back
<niemeyer> SteveA: Would you please be able to review the update-branches branch? It contains the bzrsync cronjob we talked about..
<bradb> mental note: use +bugs-all when searching for dups, not +bugs.
<SteveA> niemeyer: yes i can, but not tonight.  is it on the PendingReviews page?
<niemeyer> SteveA: Not yet..
* niemeyer adds
<niemeyer> SteveA: Thanks
<jordi> carlos: ok
<jordi> carlos: SteveA was happy with the doc
<jordi> carlos: have a look
<jordi> I also replied to barry, about mailman. 
<jordi> Hopefully he'll join
<jordi> and when RMS finds out, it's going to be fun :)
<carlos> jordi, ;-)
<kiko> jordi? barry?
<lifeless> morning
<kiko> hey lifeless 
<lifeless> kiko welcome back
<lifeless> how was your break ?
<zyga> SteveA: ping
<kiko> lifeless, it was quite good, much needed. and how are you doing this week? how's bzr?
<lifeless> bzrs good, pqm is in the final stages of moving to balleny, which is [hopefully]  good as its currently backlogged like buggery
<lifeless> I'm well ;)
<lifeless> starting to lose the weight put on by conference food :)
* ajmitch can hardly look at chinese food now
<carlos> jordi, here?
<kiko> lifeless, that will be awesome, this move to balleny. I'm amazed you are already pulling it off I thought it was rocket science
<lifeless> heh
<lifeless> I landed the code last week to drive pqm as though it was on balleny
<lifeless> this move should be straight forward
<lifeless> and then the next step is the chrooting
<lifeless> which funnily enough, pqm already has support for for baz builds ;)
<kiko> lifeless, what else is going on? 
<lifeless> kiko: some test work in the pipeline
<lifeless> somewhat blocked on stevea landing a new zope
<lifeless> looking in on the distro test related specs as well, finding my feet there
<lifeless> lots of stuff as usual ;)
<kiko> cool
<kiko> Kinnison, I failed to find the time to call you. are you still available?
<lifeless> kiko: I'll be starting up the review meetings next week
<lifeless> restarting that is
<lifeless> kiko: is the current time suitable for you? Steve was mentioning you seem to have some trouble getting to them
<kiko> lifeless, nah, it's okay, I was just overworked the weeks coming to UBZ
<SteveA> zyga: what's up?
<zyga> SteveA: carlos recommended that I ask you about nice xml reader for python
<zyga> to read http://l10n-status.gnome.org/translation-status.xml
<zyga> a SAX parser will be fine but anything smarter is even more nice
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : launchpad.net -- next development meeting: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MeetingAgenda (Thur 24 Nov, 1200UTC)
<SteveA> zyga: 8MB
<SteveA> not small
<SteveA> you can try minidom in the std library
<zyga> thnx
<SteveA> and if that doesn't work because of the amount of data, i'd use sax from the std library, so you can parse and handle it in an event-based way
<SteveA> elementtree is supposed to be minimalist and useful
<zyga> hmm, just a novice question: std library is installed by default?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> look at the docs at http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html
<SteveA> you get all that by default
<zyga> got it
<zyga> I was expecting a flat module model
<SteveA> although "import this" says "flat is better than nested", there is sometimes too much of a good thing
<sivang> SteveA: minidom also does event based parsing, right?
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> it does dom based parsing
<SteveA> well, it depends what your question means, actually
<SteveA> minidom is build upon the sax libraries
<SteveA> so it uses event based parsing to build up its in-memory DOM representation
<sivang> ah then I mistook this with even based parsing which is probably something different. I recalled that when working with minidom, you define callbacks that are triggered based on the parsing that's done, as in the Kant example in DIP
<SteveA> that's sax, not DOM
<SteveA> in sax, you define handlers for open some element, close some element etc.
<SteveA> then use these handlers to build up whatever state you require, and deal with that state accordingly
<SteveA> so you can parse the XML as a stream, which is really the only way if you have potentially LOADS of it
<SteveA> in the DOM based model, you have a document object model that you deal with, so a collection of nodes in a graph that you can traverse and query.
<sivang> right, so I did mistook SAX for dom.
<SteveA> there are DOM implementations that load things into memory as needed
<SteveA> but they are complex
<SteveA> basically, DOM is more abstract, generally easier to work with, but you pay a price
* SteveA --> sleep
<sivang> SteveA: night!
<ddaa> lifeless: what would be the entry point to baz2bzr for the cscvs-import driver script?
<ddaa> I'm trying to figure out how I should write the bit that tries to pull the existing bzr branch from the SM, and does a from-scratch import if it's not found.
<kiko> bradb, note that bug 3322 is currently assigned to matsubara
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3322: It should be possible to indicate a binary package when filing a bug Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3322
<bradb> kiko: yep. I just wanted it off my untriaged list. :)
<kiko> aha :)
<kiko> well
<mdz> bradb: why does malone mail me copies of my own comments, and can I disable that behaviour?
<kiko> to be honest though
<kiko> accepted is very dangerous in that sense
<ddaa> lifeless: Specifically, I woud like to know which is better for baz2bzr: always get a bzr branch, maybe empty, or let it create the bzr branch for a from-scratch import.
<kiko> how do I indicate I'm actively working on X, bradb?
<lifeless> ddaa: ESYNTAXERROR
<bradb> kiko: you can't. mpt and I have a proposed fix for that
<bradb> "Being Fixed"
<lifeless> oh, I see. well if its running on bazaar.ubuntu.com like we plan you *dont need to pull anything*
<kiko> yet another status, bradb?
<ddaa> hu?
<lifeless> you are already on the right place with your bzr branch local.
<bradb> mdz: there's no way to do that right now, unfortunately. as a workaround, you can filter out all email coming from your address, where the Reply-To has @bugs.launchpad.net in it.
<ddaa> ha... I see... I thought the conversion script would run on a separate system. That bazaar.ubuntu.com is only a http and sftp box.
<bradb> kiko: yeah
<ddaa> The import process is going to be quite expensive, at least at the beginning. I was expecting we'd want to spread the the load on several boxes for the initial import.
<ddaa> Which is also consistent with the fact that ATM I only have sftp access to bazaar.ubuntu.com... no shell.
<bradb> mdz: On a sort of related note, I've checked in the new X-Launchpad-Bug that will allow you to filter by component as well. If it doesn't get rolled out tomorrow (might not have made the cutoff date we set before rollouts), then should be rolled out by next week.
<ddaa> lifeless: did I miss something?
<lifeless> ddaa: yes you did.
<ddaa> What did I miss?
<mdz> bradb: should I file a bug?
<mdz> bradb: I have a similar filter in place for bugzilla and will do that for now
<lifeless> ddaa: we talked several times about this. Lets run in on bazaar.ubuntu.com. Its easier. It may be expensive but doing one branch at a time with all local IO should be fine.
<lifeless> if its not fine we can reenginer to add complexity later but right now its YAGNI
<lifeless> and ping elmo for a full login
<lifeless> I spoke with him about it at UBZ
<bradb> mdz: maybe you could comment on bug 2145 instead?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #2145: jbailey wants to customize the kinds of bugmail that gets sent to him Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2145
<ddaa> Ok. Do you consider that launchpad.conf integration is YAGNI as well, or is it the Right Way to do it?
<lifeless> omg you are insane
<bradb> mdz:  or leave as is, if appropriate. or open a new bug. whatever works for you :)
<ddaa> I'm just trying to do things properly.
<lifeless> this is a once of cron job running for what, a month at most ?
<lifeless> I take back the insane bit
<lifeless> but seriously. Balance the costs here.
<mdz> bradb: I see it as a separate issue; I would never expect my own comments to me mailed to me
<lifeless> its being driven on one system by one person for a fixed time period
<mdz> bradb: rather than a matter of preference
<lifeless> *any* engineering being done should take that into account
<lifeless> with very few tags.
<ddaa> tags?
<lifeless> things-that-make-baz2bzr-slow
<bradb> mdz: is it reasonable to assume that no Malone user will want to receive comments they make as bugmail?
<lifeless> so what did you plan to put in launchpad.conf ?
<ddaa> I used to think that what makes it slow is baz inventory computation and bzr xml processing...
<bradb> mdz: for some people, collecting the comments in the inbox can make it easier to follow discussions (particularly given that the web UI doesn't do citation.)
<ddaa> So far, I planned to put the arch_root and bazaar_root paths in launchpad.conf.
<ddaa> i.e. places where the arch branches are found, and where the bzr branches are pushed.
<LarstiQ> mdz: fwiw, I prefer my comments sent back to me
<lifeless> ok, I would not bother.
<mdz> bradb: comments sent through the web aren't threaded anyway, right?
<lifeless> hard code it for bazaar.ubuntu.com/override that in any tests.
<mdz> LarstiQ: weirdo ;-)
<LarstiQ> mdz: present! ;)
<lifeless> because there are no plans to have this operate in different environments, we can refactor later if needed
<ddaa> I was planning on testing it end-to-end on my local system. Where the hardcoding would be annoying.
<bradb> mdz: it feels like a preference to me, but i'd encourage you to do whatever you want. if you think a separate bug is better, arguing that it shouldn't be configurable, I'D DELETE IT. (just kidding)
<lifeless> ddaa: short story, do whatever is *easiest*. Thats the TDD mantra. Don't code something until you are actually using it.
<ddaa> ok
<lifeless> myself, I would have any end to end tests I need in the code I write
<lifeless> because otherwise its hard for anyone else to help you, and hard for you to verify it works
<ddaa> right
<lifeless> and given I'd be doing that, I'd have (probably) and environment variable to control it, as thats easier than dicking with launchpad.conf in a temp dir from within a running python process to a subprocess
<lifeless> like with have one for the database to use
<ddaa> Well, if all tests has to be automated, at least one test has to do the subprocess thing.
<ddaa> At least to check the zopeless environment initialisation is done properly.
<lifeless> right, but the way that it does that is without a fake dir, it just sets an environment variable
<ddaa> which fake dir are to talking about?
<lifeless> it does not need to write a new launchpad.conf
<lifeless> is that a clearer statement
<ddaa> Well, I'd expect the default/launchpad.conf would be set properly for tests
<lifeless> its not
<lifeless> the test suite sets the right one
<kiko> really?
<kiko> when testing gina I just modified default/launchpad.conf
<ddaa> and that the production/launchpad.conf would be the one with the real values
<kiko> and it worked (apparently)
<lifeless> there is a section in teh default file called 'canonical testrunner'
<lifeless> that section is used to connect to the test db
<lifeless> but is not used when you do 'make run'
<lifeless> cron scripts etc will not use the testrunner config by default, they have to be told to do so when testing
<kiko> ddaa, I am in principle fine with the patch at https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileZOw6UW.html
<lifeless> ddaa: there are two local dbs - the one you use interactively and the one used by the test suite.
<lifeless> ddaa: default/launchpad.conf points things at the one you use interactively by default
<ddaa> sure the lauchpad_ftest
<sivang> Night all
<kiko> ddaa, I am a bit unhappy it didn't solve the problem I introduced a while back when fixing the sync admin page for you
<kiko> ddaa, and I don't quite understand how productseriesset could be so unused
<kiko> but r=kiko
<ddaa> lifeless: yes, so where is the contradiction with what I said?
<lifeless> ddaa: nm, obviously unsynced
<ddaa> kiko: AFAICT it became entirely redundant with the arrival of Navigation classes.
<kiko> ddaa, perhaps. 
<ddaa> grepping for it finds nothing, and removing it does not seem break /bazaar or $product/+series/$series pages. And the test suite passes.
<kiko> okay, go forth and nuke it
<ddaa> kiko: just want you to say r=kiko :)
<kiko> I did already :)
<ddaa> cool, once it's in the queue, I'll ask you another quick review for the patch that adds a _normal_ ProductSeriesSet.
<kiko> okay, nice
<kiko> ddaa, do you remember the bug I fixed for you that unbroke /bazaar?
<ddaa> kiko: I do not know what the bug actually was
<kiko> could you look into that hack and perhaps fix it properly as you are there
<ddaa> kiko: I do not know what you are talking about :)
<kiko> hmmm
<ddaa> I just know that the page stopped working, I filed a bug, and some time later it was working again.
<ddaa> Which is about the full extend of my participation with the development of this feature...
<kiko> heh
<kiko> ok, let me try digging up what I did
<ddaa> kiko: here's the next logical step, that actually add code, with tests! https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileSSVvPf.html
<kiko> wow, sweet!
<kiko> very nice ddaa 
<ddaa> there's actually a bug in this code, to see if you are paying attention :)
<ddaa> (well, actually, I just saw it...)
<kiko> +        return ProductSeries.get(series_id) -- ?
<kiko> okay, ProductSeries is defined there
<ddaa> """Get a IProductSeries by its database id."""
<ddaa> should be "Get a ProductSeries", as it actually implements three different interfaces.
* bradb heads off
#launchpad 2005-11-29
<scorpix> when i try to create an Arabic template for Gaim i get this error:  Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
<scorpix> how can i create a Translation Template for gaim?
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<spiv> lifeless: canonical.librarian.storage._relFileLocation
<stub> lifeless: I have so far been unable to tag sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/stub/launchpad/production/1.40 as sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/production/1.40 - I keep getting back the same error "PQM Cannot merge between different VCSsystems."
<stub> SteveA, jamesh, spiv: open-id looks like what we want for allowing people to authenticate against Launchpad. It seems complicated enough to support our requirements, and not much more so. I think we should run with this rather than reinvent it badly. It would be good if you can have a look over the specs to double check my opinion when you have time
<stub> (this isn't scheduled or assigned yet, so not urgent - just something there are persitant mutterings about)
<SteveA> stub: okay.  i'd stay stick the URLs and rationale in a bug or spec, and we'll look at it February earliest
<SteveA> no point looking earlier as we have a whole bunch of polish and stability work on launchpad before then
<SteveA> if you get me a good URL, i'll take a brief look now
<jamesh> SteveA: spec is at http://openid.net/specs.bml, and we have a bug open about it here: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/1169
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #1169: Launchpad should support OpenID Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1169
<jamesh> the spec feels like it would be easier to understand with some more examples and maybe sample code
<SteveA> i've read the overview.  so, the idea is that we provide on the launchpad end the facility for anyone to say "I am NAME from Launchpad", and a registry of to which sites Launchpad will say "NAME says you can use Launchpad to authenticate with you"
<jamesh> yeah
<stub> People say 'I am https://launchpad.net/peope/stub', and other systems can redirect to launchpad, get us to do authentication, and send back a cookie
<jamesh> it works by the remote site bouncing the user through the OpenID server's website and back again
<stub> erm... I should say token. Cookie has too many meanings
<jamesh> so the OpenID server can check the user's credentials (cookies, basic auth, SSL client certs, or whatever else)
<SteveA> stub: any items for the meeting agenda today?
<stub> Ooh... its thursday.
<stub> Erm... just production and staging as normal, following up on my status report to launchpad@
<SteveA> i need to look through my summary of the last meeting.  there were some things mentioned there
<SteveA> what about a gina run?
<SteveA> that still hasn't happened
<stub> Nope. People want more runs on staging.
<stub> (which has been rebuilding the db for the last 3 hours now - daily syncs no longer look possible.)
<SteveA> too much data?
<stub> SteveA: Yes - db is growing. Should be fine - I'll just need to schedule a database sync once or twice a week instead of every day. We can keep going with the daily code drops.
<SteveA> does syncing take a lot longer than copying the raw data?
<carlos> morning
<stub> SteveA: Yes - raw data is about 4.5GB. Importing that data into PostgreSQL takes time, and then constraints need to be created and checked, and indexes on that data need to be built.
<sivang> morning carlos 
<stub> SteveA: We could throw RAM at the problem, but it would only delay the inevitable
<stub> carlos: Hi
<SteveA> so, you can't just copy the raw database files?
<zyga> carlos: morning
<zyga> carlos: just pull and have a look
<zyga> carlos: it was easier than I really thought
<carlos> zyga, you have it already?
<carlos> dude you rock...
* carlos checks
<zyga> no it was just plain easy this time :)
* sivang notes so many things are easier in python. GnomeVFS from within it is plain candy
<carlos> zyga, I see, you just import all .po and .pot files available, right?
<zyga> right
<zyga> I think we need a mapping between 'gnome' products and 'our' products
<zyga> I don't thing they are 100% identical
<carlos> zyga, yeah, I will create a log when I don't create a product in our database
<carlos> so we can create or detect that problem
<carlos> s/create/create a new product/
<zyga> so do I need to add anything now?
<carlos> zyga, hmmm, anyway... In the long term, if you were able to use the .xml to filter out obsolete .po and .pot files... sometimes we have such files there
<stub> SteveA: No - that would involve shutting down emperor to keep the datafiles clean. And even if we could do it with no downtime (eg. a snapshot capable filesystem on emperor), it isn't exactly supported and would introduce more variables into the staging environment (which would be bad).
<SteveA> zyga/carlos: make sure the contributed code has a comment at the top with copyright who wrote it, when, and what the licence is
<carlos> zyga, but I think that's enough to start the import
<zyga> SteveA: it's there :)
<carlos> #!/usr/bin/env python
<carlos> # (c) Zygmunt Krynicki 2005,
<carlos> # Licensed under LGPL, see COPYING for the whole text
<SteveA> stub: i see.  so postgresql doesn't have that facility at this point
<zyga> carlos: okay, the XML will be the second shot but we still need language information, xml don't has it
<carlos> zyga, don't worry about the language information
<carlos> zyga, what I mean is use what you have 
<carlos> and the xml to generate a list of products + branches
<stub> SteveA: I don't think any DB's do.
<carlos> zyga, if a .po or .pot file come from a branch or product that the xml does not have, just ignore it
<stub> Well.. maybe some of the toys.
<SteveA> stub: FileStorage and DirectoryStorage do ;-)
<carlos> zyga, we will care about the languages on import time
<carlos> zyga, hmm, also, would be really useful if you would give me another argument that we have available from the .xml file, the path from where the file comes, but that's a plus
<zyga> hmm
<carlos> zyga, I forgot to comment it to you yesterday
<zyga> okay so let's get this straight
<zyga> we don't care about languages at all right now, just about products+branches
<zyga> and for each p+b you want a path, right?
<zyga> carlos: strainght from the XML: module/version/component@dir
<carlos> zyga, right
<carlos> zyga, if you give me the path + filename, that's enough for me
<carlos> as a single argument
<zyga> filename? 
<zyga> to the pot?
<carlos> the filename of the content you give me, like evolution-2.2.pot
<carlos> or evolution-2.2.es.pot
<carlos> sorry, .po
<zyga> module/version/component@dir + module/component/potname@name
<carlos> hmmm
<zyga> hmm, right now we can just add getURL() to FileToSync
<carlos> yeah, for the .pot file that's perfect
<zyga> k
<carlos> I don't need the URL, just a path to the .pot file
<zyga> the path on the server, right?
<carlos> and for the .po files the path+ the filename as you have it at l10n-status.gnome.org
<zyga> ok
<carlos> zyga, the path on the source tree
<zyga> carlos: okay just to be sure, the xml has that data in: potfile-in-source-tree: module/version/component/podir@dir + module/version/component/potname@name
<zyga> branches+products need to come from the xml while the actuall list of .po's come from index.txt
<carlos> zyga, private message so I don't send spam here...
<SteveA> spiv: > +    tm = initZopeless(config.builddmaster.dbuser='fiera')
<SteveA> does that make sense at all?
<SteveA> or is it someone's search-and-replace taken too far?
<jamesh> SteveA: it's a syntax error, so it is probably the latter
<SteveA> jamesh: so it is.  thanks.
<SteveA> jamesh: error reporting looking okay?
<jamesh> SteveA: yeah.  I need to write some more tests for it and clean things up
<jamesh> SteveA: I've got it writing the reports to files, and showing the error identifier on the error web page
* carlos workraves
<SteveA> that's great
<SteveA> i'm looking forward to getting this into production and on staging, as it will make the QA work a lot easier and more effective
<SteveA> it will also let users of launchpad know we can find out what went wrong in their particular case in a more straightforward way
<SteveA> also, i'll be able to turn off the in process /error pages
<jamesh> Do we still want the exceptions sent to the logging framework?
<jamesh> (I think the current system does so)
<SteveA> yes, at least when running on development boxes
<SteveA> no point really when running in production
<SteveA> config file setting, perhaps?
<jamesh> sounds good
<Nafallo> carlos: there? :-)
<carlos> Nafallo, hi
<Nafallo> carlos: morning. I think we should kill of sv_SE completly. ppl only translates more and more in it as long as it exists.
<Nafallo> doable? :-)
<carlos> Nafallo, yes, but you need to merge first those translations into 'sv'
<carlos> Nafallo, get a .po file, merge it by hand with the one from 'sv'
<carlos> and upload the merged one into 'sv'
<carlos> then, ping me with the URL of the merged pofiles
<carlos> and we will get ride of them
<Nafallo> hmm, oki. I'll start with that as soon as time provides then :-)
<BjornT> jamesh: ping
* Nafallo just got more memory for his server :-)
<carlos> Nafallo, ;-)
<jamesh> BjornT: hi
<BjornT> jamesh: hi. i'm trying to fix bug 3207, but i fail to create a test case for it
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #3207: line endings must be canonicalised before checking signatures on PGP/MIME messages Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Bjrn Tillenius, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3207
<BjornT> jamesh: do you have any idea how to create an email, signed by sample person, that behaves like the email in that bug?
<jamesh> BjornT: Shouldn't be too difficult to do with the email library (/me crosses fingers)
<jamesh> create the message part and serialise it with '\r\n' line endings, sign it, and wrap the content and signature in a multipart message, then convert all the line endings back to '\n' (or '\r')
<BjornT> jamesh: yeah, i've tried doing like that manually. i'll try again using the email library, though, maybe i missed something
<jordi> ok, so it looks very likely that we'll have mailman as an official rosetta product :)
* carlos workraves
<matsubara> good morning
<cprov> morning hackers
<carlos> jordi, dude, you rock!
<carlos> :-)
<SteveA> developers meeting in 25 mins
<SteveA> any other items for the agenda
<kiko> hey there
<mpool> hi
<kiko> martin!
<kiko> how's it going man?
<mpool> man
<mpool> too slow; too much to do :/
* SteveA back in 10-15 mins
<kiko> heya SteveA 
<kiko> mpool, how can I help you?
<mpool> oh i don't know
<kiko> come on
<jordi> kiko: barry, you asked last night, is the main author of mailman
<jordi> and he's probably jumping onto the Launchpad!
<mpool> wow well done
<sivang> mpool: Martin! it's been sometime since i last saw you online
<kiko> jordi, barry warsaw? I know him
<jordi> in person?
<jordi> that's awesome
<kiko> jordi, so he wants to translate mailman inside rosetta?
<kiko> more power to him
<jordi> yup
<sivang> kiko: yeah, more and more upstream projects to officialize in Rosetta 
<sivang> cool
<kiko> argh
<kiko> I posted to allhands
<jordi> now, it's going to be a week of rejections :)
<jordi> according to the new policy
<carlos> jordi, ;-)
<jordi> kiko: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/rosetta-users/2005-November/001054.html
<jordi> the outstanding issue is how to convert the mail templates to po and viceversa
<mpool> sivang: oh, hi
<mpool> i have a good photo of you on flickr
<sivang> mpool: yeah, I saw it :) good, but chunky :)
<sivang> mpool: can I PM you?
<mpool> sure
<mpool> well, presumably you can
<mpool> is it not workiing?
<sivang> mpool: let me try again
<kiko> morning bradb 
<SteveA> meeting in 2
<kiko> that's true
<sivang> mpool: after meeting then
<SteveA> not a bad time for a brief wrist / eyes break
<bradb> hey kiko 
<SteveA> Welcome to the launchpad developers meeting
<kiko> jordi, great set of answers to barry
<kiko> congrats
<SteveA> who's here today?
<ddaa> Bonjour.
<kiko> "the world is bright"
<jamesh> me
<SteveA> sveiki
<mpool> me
* cprov me
<matsubara> me
<salgado> me
<bradb> chu l
<BjornT> me
<carlos> me
<stub> yo
<SteveA> apologies from: jblack, lifeless, neimeyer, daf, mpt
<ddaa> bradb: looks like the encoding bug is gone.
<bradb> ddaa: on OS X right now
<spiv> me
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA>  * Roll call
<SteveA>  * Agenda
<SteveA>  * Next meeting
<SteveA>  * Activity reports
<SteveA>  * Items from last meeting
<SteveA>  * Production / staging (stub)
<SteveA>  * Production gina run (stub)
<SteveA>  * Naming of functions, methods, attributes and properties. (SteveAlexander)
<SteveA>  * Launchpad user community meetings. (SteveAlexander)
<SteveA>  * A launchpad mailing list for everyone. (SteveAlexander)
<SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change (Kinnison)
<SteveA>  * Three sentences
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> is Kinnison here?
<SteveA>  /msg me any things you want added, although there is quite a bit here
<SteveA> okay.  next meeting... 
<kiko> I vote for same time same place
<SteveA> lifeless asked for it to be earlier.  but, today isn't the best time to discuss it
* cprov nods
<SteveA> as lifeless and jblack and mpt are not here
<SteveA> so, same time next week.
<kiko> one hour earlier will be cruel with bradb I suspect
<ddaa> Les absents ont toujours tort ;)
<SteveA> activity reports:
<SteveA> i totally suck.  none since last week.
<SteveA> who can claim better than me?
<bradb> yeah, 6AM is somewhat harsh for a meeting :)
* jamesh sucks
* carlos sucks too
<kiko> I started them today
* BjornT is up to date
* cprov is up 
* ddaa zuptoodait
* bradb is up to date
<mpool> i'd like earlier
* salgado lost two days but went back on track since yesterday
<spiv> I'm up to date since last meeting (although I didn't keep great notes for all days, I sent what I have)
<mpool> haven't sent yesterday yet
* stub is up to date
<kiko> gneuman and matsubara are up-to-date (though he sends his to me directly)
<SteveA> okay.  send *something* every day.
<SteveA> maybe set an alarm for a particular time, like 5pm local
<SteveA> and send them each day at that time, when the alarm goes off
<SteveA> well done to those who are up to date and have sent several since last week
<SteveA> i salute you
<SteveA>  - items from last meeting
<SteveA> we've covered the agenda items
<SteveA> X-Launchpad-Bug was resolved
<SteveA> thanks brad
<kiko> THANKS bradb 
<bradb> np
<SteveA> various stuff has happened in the gina department
<SteveA> we have a new translation policy
<kiko> in the soyuz department better said
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> so, that's it from last time
<kiko> (so major credits to Kinnison and cprov)
<SteveA>  * Production / staging (stub)
<stub> I failed to do a production rollout this week due to some bzr issues (reported to Robert).
<stub> Depending on when things get sorted, I'll either be do a rollout tomorrow and skip next week, or doing the rollout Monday or Tuesday.
<stub> I will roll out a two day old HEAD (so what landed yesterday if I get to rollout tomorrow)
<stub> Staging had similar issues. The staging database is currently being rebuilt (it is currently in the final stages). I suspect the code update will fail.
<stub> Due to size increases with the production database, syncing the staging database to production is now taking several hours so I'll need to cut back database syncs to once per week. Code updates can continue as usual (daily) once we have finished Gina and Publisher testing.
<jordi> ffs, sorry. I'm here.
<SteveA> hi jordi 
* Kinnison is here
<Kinnison> sorry, forgot to start irssi
<carlos> stub, so can we assume that staging will be updated once per week starting next week?
<jordi> kiko: thanks :)
* carlos talks about the database
<stub> carlos: The staging *database* will be synced once per week. I think sunday is the best choice.
<carlos> stub, will not be stopped by gina or bugzilla migration scripts?
<stub> carlos: Yes - depending on the status of Gina and Publisher testing.
<kiko> carlos, the gina/bugzilla situation is an interim measure. it's not ideal, but it won't last forever
* carlos is still using staging db to generate language packs
<kiko> as soon as they are run staging can go on doing daily updates
<kiko> carlos, can you explain why?
<jamesh> I think I only need one more bugzilla import test on staging, so that should get cleared up after the next gina run
<carlos> kiko, because the procedure is not yet working as it should so it gives me more control over the process until I can say it's production ready
<kiko> okay
<stub> carlos: We can arrange a seperate mirror of the production database if staging becomes unsuitable. Let me know. Might need hardware, but I think something can be found short term.
<Kinnison> stub: I assume "depending on the status of..." means that for now, we'll do one db sync and then wait
<stub> Kinnison: Yes
<kiko> stub, are you saying that we should stop syncing daily as our policy?
<Kinnison> stub: cool
<Kinnison> stub: cool
<kiko> I was considering the current situation as temporary
<carlos> stub, ok, If i see it'sneeded I will tell you it
<stub> kiko: We can still sync daily - it just means that staging will be unavailable for maybe 9 hours each day. Which is silly.
<SteveA> we'll be having increasing problems until we get R/O replicas going i think
<stub> kiko: Before, it was only taking 1.5 hours which was fine.
<kiko> stub, is this database or librarian growth?
<stub> kiko: Database. 
<Kinnison> stub: is this related mostly to fti?
<jamesh> kiko: staging doesn't seem to copy the production librarian files
<stub> Kinnison: No
<kiko> hmmm.
<kiko> stub, if I asked you what's grown so much would you say Rosetta or something else or don't know?
<SteveA> an rsync should do for the librarian.  or even something cleverer based on those files that have been added since last time
<stub> There is a special hack in the librarian, where it will grab a file from an upstream librarian if the file isn't available locally. Which means we don't have to sync the librarian to staging. (if it is working)
<SteveA> oh, i remember Kinnison and cprov doing that, i think
<kiko> it's not working, we think
<stub> kiko: Staging is a big one.
<stub> kiko: Erm.... c/Staging/ShipIt
<SteveA> i think we're okay for this week
<SteveA> let's move on
<SteveA>  * Production gina run (stub)
<SteveA> or not stub...
<stub> Various people are feeling paranoid, so Gina is not being run on production until she has had more time on staging. If things go smoothly, I suspect we can finally do the production Gina run week after next (which we can confirm next meeting).
<SteveA> can someone give a brief summary of where we stand with doing a gina run on production
<SteveA> do we need to get elmo to the next meeting?
<Kinnison> SteveA: mdz would be of more use
<kiko> hmmm
<SteveA> mdz will be well asleep
<Kinnison> SteveA: but it's a nasty time for him I think
<kiko> so the current situation with gina
<kiko> we are running comparisons once we have imported and published an archive
<SteveA> anyway he can tell folks.  so long as we have a good summary at the next meeting, that's fine
<kiko> we believe there are no showstopper gina issues
<kiko> there should be no major publisher issues
<kiko> but it's a matter now of getting the diffs between archives to a manageable size
<kiko> this is made a bit more difficult by the fact that the existing archive had issues
<kiko> so we are actually fixing some things in the migration
<kiko> I'm responsible for this so I'm probably okay with giving the report on whether it's okay or not (and coordinating with people to find out)
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA>  * Naming of functions, methods, attributes and properties. (SteveAlexander)
<SteveA> there was proposal on the list by niemeyer.  brad supported niemeyer's proposal.
<SteveA> i also support niemeyer's proposal.
<SteveA> so, now is your last chance to say you totally can't live with...
<SteveA> all attributes, properties, methods and functions in launchpad code being of the form foo_bar_baz and not fooBarBaz
<kiko> I am in favor of this.
<SteveA> except where this is not possible because you're subclassing something that uses a different style, for example
* Kinnison dislikes it, but I can appreciate the desire for consistency
* BjornT prefers fooBarBaz for methods, but doesn't care that much
<ddaa> Can live with whatever. But I came to prefere the methodName style.
* Kinnison nods BjornT 
<kiko> I am more interested in how we plan to handle a "migration"
<SteveA> my personal preference is fooBarBaz for methods, and foo_bar for functions, attributes and properties
* carlos thinks like BjornT, but will accept this new policy
<ddaa> Also, code that interface with e.g. Twisted will end up as an odd mix of both styles.
<SteveA> but it is a more complex rule
<SteveA> ddaa: code that interfaces with other systems should use one style consistently
* Kinnison thinks fooBarBaz for methods, and foo_bar_baz for globals
<SteveA> so, if we can't use just the launchpad style, then that module / class should use another style
<salgado> I'm okay with what niemeyer suggested
<stub> except unittest tests, which will generally be test_the_foo_bar_works
<SteveA> also, PEP-8 seems to be slightly in favour of foo_bar
<ddaa> Well, I like test_ItWorksYeah
<ddaa> hu test_itWorksYeah
<salgado> but in a database class, the attributes that are in fact database columns will be inconsistent with other attributes
<SteveA> they already are.
<SteveA> okay.  i didn't hear any serious dissent.
<ddaa> Look like quite a few people like the other style, but nobody is willing to argue about it.
<SteveA> i'd like to hear one of the following from everyone:  -1 -0 +0 +1.  where -1 means NO WAY, and +1 means PLEASE YES!
<stub> salgado: We have decided that database columns should be this_is_a_value too, rather than thisisavalue
<SteveA> please say now
<stub> salgado: But there will be no mass migration
<SteveA> and say quiet otherwise until we're done
* cprov is happy to have any *single* pattern
<Kinnison> -1 (-0 if someone explains the policy for existing code refactoring and it's not insane)
* SteveA +1
* kiko +1
<BjornT> -0
<jamesh> +1
<ddaa> -1 (caps style is faster to type and strains less on the wrists)
<bradb> +1
<mpool> +0 
<cprov> _0
<salgado> +1
<cprov> +0 ...
<carlos> -0
<stub> 0 (I can't use a consistant style myself, so am not going to be a hypocrite and pretend I should be listened to on this)
<mpool> (i don't really get a vote, but i_like_this())
<SteveA> any more for any more...
<SteveA> to Kinnison:
<sivang> I also don't get to vote, but I tend to follow ddaa on that
<SteveA> the policy will be that all new totally new code will be in the new style.
<SteveA> where new code touches an existing class or unit of code
<SteveA> it should either
<SteveA>  - use the existing style (for a small change)
<SteveA>  - rework the unit of code to use the new style (for a large change)
<Kinnison> Can you define small vs. large changes?
<Kinnison> In particular, you could have a massive rework of implementation that doesn't touch interface
<SteveA> no.  it's between you and your code reviewer.
<Kinnison> is that a small or large change?
<SteveA> depends on the nature of the interface
<Kinnison> Well, simply based on my dislike of the style chosen, I'm going no higher than -0.5
<SteveA> use common sense, and ask the review team for advice
* Kinnison will live with it, but will sulk quietly when alone
<SteveA> we have -1 from ddaa, -1 from sivang (you get to vote, but it might not be totally counted), and -0.5 from Kinnison 
<SteveA> everyone else is in favor or can live with it
<SteveA> ddaa: can you live with it?
<ddaa> Sure, I can live with anything short of rot13.
<SteveA> okay.  then it is decided.
<SteveA> thanks everyone for keeping this brief.
<carlos> SteveA, does it affects current code being reviewed?
<SteveA> no
<carlos> like my TranslationUploads branch
<SteveA> unless you want it to, as a code author
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> the point is, this should not result in lots of extra work for anyone
<SteveA> use that as a guideline
<SteveA>  * Launchpad user community meetings. (SteveAlexander)
<SteveA> i think we should have meetings that aren't in the strict structure of these developer meetings
<SteveA> and invite our user community to participate more
<SteveA> including the distro team
<SteveA> i'd like some feedback from you as to whether this is a good idea, and i'd like someone other than me to set the first one up
<SteveA> the timezone should allow mdz to attend
<kiko> I think it's a good idea.
<SteveA> and ideally mpt
* Kinnison thinks that's a good plan
<sivang> very good idea.  I would also have meetings dedicated for walkthrough and guidance for using launcpad for upstream maintainers,
<kiko> I can set this up if nobody else isn't interested. mdz and mpt together will be difficult when mpt is back in NZ, though.
<SteveA> kiko: thanks.
<sivang> we could also invite them and show them the nice features they can use first hand
<SteveA>  * A launchpad mailing list for everyone. (SteveAlexander)
<SteveA> right now, we use the launchpad list just for development discussions.
<SteveA> it doesn't get a lot of traffic usually
<SteveA> i think we should open up this list
<sivang> but then you risk your list will become loaded with "plain" user traffic like ubuntu-devel has become
<sivang> maybe a launchpad-users list? (or is there one already)
<SteveA> anyway, we're out of time to discuss this in detail
<Kinnison> I think opening up the list will break the launchpad developers' finger-memory
<SteveA> so let's talk about it more after this meeting. 
<mpool> someone's blog recently had a suggestion that users will always post to the -technical or -devel list, 
* Kinnison agrees with sivang that a launchpad-users list will be good
<Kinnison> and keep the launchpad@ list private
<kiko> actually
<mpool> because they have a technical question that needs to be answered by developers, right
<kiko> there /is/ a launchpad-users
<SteveA> later please.
<ddaa> I think a separate list would make sense if the devels are required to read it and reply to requests touch their area of ownership.
<SteveA> we'll continue right after this meeting
<SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change (Kinnison)
<SteveA> any Keep Bag or Change items?
* Kinnison would like to raise a Keep(Meeting-Summaries)
<Kinnison> when I was unwell last week, having the summary was fantastic
<SteveA> i will summarize this meeting
<SteveA> great
<SteveA> 5
<SteveA> 4 (to end of KBC)
<SteveA> 3
<SteveA> 2
<SteveA> 1
<SteveA> okay. 
<kiko> that was stressful.
<SteveA> Three sentences.  Drop them into the channel!
<stub> DONE: LibrarianGarbageCollection
<stub> TODO: Test LibrarianGarbageCollection, PostgreSQL sessions, rollouts
<stub> BLOCKED: bzr bugs blocking rollouts
<ddaa> DONE: updated TheBazaar, landed Branch support, bzr-based rollout of importd
<ddaa> TODO: importd2bzr driver script for baz2bzr. BazaarTaskList.
<ddaa> BLOCKED: No.
<carlos> DONE: TranslationUploads review, user support, bug triage
<bradb> DONE: Lots of bug triaging. Landed X-Launchpad-Bug, bugmail footer. Small UI improvments.
<matsubara> DONE: added bugtracker type to bugtracker listing, productseries autogen form.
<bradb> TODO: Finish InitialBugContacts. Figure out how to make addNotification + sessions work in tests.
<jamesh> DONE: land ValidatingSignOnlyGpgKeys, ErrorReportManagement, some bugzilla-import fixes
<bradb> BLOCKED: No.
<jamesh> TODO: get ErrorReportManagement tidied up in a reviewable state, do bugzilla milestone migration code
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<matsubara> TODO: finish the productseries bug and fix more bugs
<carlos> TODO: Finish TranslationUploads review, bug triage and languagepacks improvements
<BjornT> DONE: first cut of ticket-tracker-outgoing-email.almost done with DefaultAffectsTarget. bug fixes. reviews. started specing email for spec tracker.
<matsubara> BLOCKED: nope
<carlos> BLOCKED: no
<BjornT> TODO: finish last bits of DefaultAffectsTarget. clean-up email interface, mainly improving error handling and error messages..refine spec tracker email spec. reviews.
<salgado> DONE: Finished rewriting the +packages page, started ShipItReports, code review and random small fixes.
<salgado> TODO: Finish ShipItReports, start ProperSignUpWorkflow, code review
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no.
<cprov> DONE: package search solution, +builds pages redesign
<cprov> TODO: builds/+reset, builds/fmt:icon, unified package search
<cprov> BLOCKED: None
<gneuman> DONE: fixed and merged trivial bugs
<Kinnison> DONE: Was unwell, now working on the ftpmaster tools to let dapper open on soyuz. Doing some publisher fixes elmo brought up in meeting on wednesday
<Kinnison> TODO: Finish the tools and fixes, re-run the tests for mdz
<Kinnison> BLOCKED: Nothing right now, except bzr sometimes hiccoughing on the launchpad mirror tree.
<gneuman> TODO: more fixes and merges
<mpool> DONE: various bzr landings and bugfixes, got over jetlag bleh
<SteveA> jblack: PAST: drupal, drupal, drupal. Supermirror. Peer programming
<SteveA> jblack: FUTURE: minor drupal. Major supermirror.
<SteveA> jblack: BLOCKERS: none
<SteveA> neimeyer: DONE: Gantry/grumpy planning, small soyuz exploration, branches branch merging, paperwork, cronjobed bzrsync, smart...
<SteveA> neimeyer: TODO: Keep working on gantry/grumpy and related
<kiko> DONE: holidays! Getting in touch with Soyuz. Various bits of management..
<kiko> TODO: Gina production run. Get my life together. Start the launchpad report.
<kiko> BLOCKED: partially on Salgado helping me set up a work environment again
<gneuman> BLOCKED: no
<SteveA> neimeyer: BLOCKED: Not at all
<SteveA> lifeless: DONE: split out working tree from branch, partial storage branch preparation for landing, test suite profiling, asterix discussions, various pair programming, catching up with distro testing stuff.
<SteveA> lifeless: TODO: pqm to balleny, baz2bzr for importd
<SteveA> lifeless: BLOCKED: Zope3 update for test suite patching & hacking
<mpool> TODO: bzr speedups, finish and land knits
<mpool> BLOCKED: no
<jordi> DONE: new import policy; template imports
<jordi> TODO: FAQ updates, pending emails, rejections per new policy
<SteveA> DONE: moin work, code reviews, management stuff
<SteveA> TODO: zope 3 upgrade, moin work, code review, ui infrastructure
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<jordi> BLOCKED: launchpad-experts
<jordi> kiko: the experts thing was finished, was it?
<kiko> jordi, nope, it's on a branch of mine I looked at yesterday
<SteveA> so, other than that, just me blocking lifeless on getting the new zope3 done
<sivang> DONE: not yet.
<sivang> TODO: Setup rocketfuel, try fix some bugs.
<sivang> BLOCKED: Days should have more then mere 24hrs.
<SteveA> and various bzr issues slowing people down
<SteveA> sivang: you don't need to wait for everyone else.  just fire it into the channel as soon as i announce it
<mpool> what are the top bzr blockers?
<SteveA> lots of CPU bound activity on updating branches / merging
<SteveA> dunno if this is a particular launchpad thing, or if weave stuff could do with some pyrex love
<ddaa> inventory xml
<SteveA> and it is time to wrap up
<SteveA> thanks folks.
<SteveA> MEETING ENDS
<mpool> well, i'll stay on, anyone who wants can tell me about it
<spiv> DONE: Reviews, Supermirror SFTP hacking
<mpool> ddaa: what about inventory xml?
<spiv> TODO: Supermirror SFTP
<SteveA> and now, we can talk about mailing lists
<spiv> BLOCKED: no (but still waiting for the insurance claim for the laptop)
<SteveA> thanks spiv 
<spiv> Sorry all, my DSL died.
<ddaa> mpool: isn't that something that causes slowness on larger trees?
<SteveA> and also about bzr
<kiko> mpool, for the record, I've found my bzr use to be a pleasure, the occasional bug being a lot less painful than tla-spawn
<Kinnison> mpool: my major blocker is bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.NoSuchRevision: Branch BzrBranch(u'/home/dsilvers/dev-canonical/rocketfuel-mirror-of-launchpad/launchpad') has no revision pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com-20051122113309-82dcc8325c5c0d19
<carlos> hmmm
<SteveA> mpool: did you see andrew's activity report about memory failure?
<spiv> mpool: I'm very happy that we're using bzr now that I'm temporarily stuck with 256MB of RAM :)
* carlos didn't know sivang was a member of launchpad team
<ddaa> personally, I find the lack of shared storage to be very annoying. It's causing branching to be much more expensive than it ought to be.
<carlos> sivang, welcome!
<stub> mpool: bzr blockers currently are that if I rsync sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel (or another branch), I can't 'bzr revert' in it.
<mpool> stub: just heard that one from lifeless, will try to fix it tomorrow
<mpool> SteveA: no, what was the memory failure
<mpool> Kinnison: can you send me more details?
<ddaa> cp branch here, cp branch on chinstrap (to prim rsync), rsync between here to chinstrap, is taking annoyingly long (on the order of half an hour).
<stub> mpool: all mine have been sent to lifeless, so he will have probably filtered the wheat from the chaff
<SteveA> mpool: half of spiv's memory on his workstation failed.
<spiv> mpool: I'm currently working on a desktop PC, because I don't have a laptop.
<SteveA> mpool: would have been a disaster before with baz 1.x.  
<mpool> ddaa: i *think* inventory xml will not be a killer if you have celementtree, but if it is i'd like to know
<ddaa> mpool: that was just hip-shooting.
<mpool> ok, so any votes for whether to try to improve network or local speed first?
<mpool> sounds like local speed is hurting most?
* bradb agrees with ddaa about the pain of branching
<kiko> I think that's the better plan at the moment mpool 
<SteveA> we're dealing with network stuff with rsync at present
<kiko> rsync has worked well enough
<spiv> mpool: And this PC seems to be rather unhealthy, USB mouse rarely works, PS/2 ports are dead, and can only see 256MB of the RAM it has.  That amount of RAM would be murder with baz 1.x.
<stub> mpool: Network is a real pain, but we have workarounds
<mpool> well i'm glad it wasn't our fault your ram died
<spiv> mpool: :)
<Kinnison> mpool: The next time it happens, I'll be sure to
<ddaa> in my impression, bzr perform not much better than baz. I was able to optimise the heck out of baz, while bzr just gives what it gives and there's not much I can do about it.
<Kinnison> mpool: but I regularly update my mirror, and it seems to come and go
<spiv> (This is the best I could assemble from two whole PCs that were working satisfactorily only a few months ago!)
<SteveA> ddaa: it is in python.  we can go to C for where it counts
<stub> mpool: I'm happy with local speed though personally (it is slow, but not unbearably except when someone lands a few hundred patches on the trunk)
* bradb agrees again with ddaa. All things considered, I don't find bzr to be any faster than baz.
<ddaa> SteveA: I'm sure it can do better. Just reporting my personal sentiment as a end user.
<spiv> mpool: I am happily *shocked* by the speed whenever I run "bzr annotate" :)
<Kinnison> mpool: Also, when merge finds a lot to pull during a single revision, it'd be nice if it gave progress within the revision
<mpool> Kinnison: oh, hm, might be a race between rsync downloading and someone else writing; obviously rsync doesn't synchronize
<Kinnison> mpool: it's possible I suppose
* Kinnison should rsync repeatedly until nothing changes
<ddaa> in particular, bzr does not make good use of disk caching, when I commit on one branch, pull in another to rsync from there to chinstrap, and rsync into a third to get updates from chinstrap.
<ddaa> I get cold cache performance quite often, while I was able to get hot cache performance most of the time thanks to hardlinking.
<mpool> ok
<ddaa> which is probably a second-order consequence of the lack of "switch" and bad network throughput, when I think of it.
<bradb> mpool: did you end up forwarding my shelve concerns to the list?
<mpool> not yet, i will
<mpool> ok, well, thanks for the feedback
<mpool> even if it stings a little
<kiko-afk> :)
<mpool> i think we can fix them
<carlos> SteveA, kiko-afk I already mailed warthogs mailing list. But I suppose it's better if I tell you it directly, I will be offline for three hours or so after 15:00 UTC today
<bradb> mpool: It's good that you're making an effort to stay close to the users. The more user-focussed bzr devs are, the more we will blog about you.
<kiko-afk> carlos, it's always better to email us directly if you don't want us to miss it, I filter almost all email
<SteveA> bradb: does that principle apply to opening up the launchpad mailing list?
<carlos> kiko-afk, ok
<bradb> SteveA: Mixing dev and user discussion isn't the best idea, IMHO.
<SteveA> i didn't say that
<SteveA> we need a place for dev discussions
<SteveA> that should be a public place, at least for reading
<SteveA> we should have a place for user discussions
<SteveA> and someone/some people need to channel information from one place to the other
<SteveA> i don't know what a good solution to this is
<bradb> When you said "open up" the lp mailing list, I naturally thought you meant allowing anyone to read it and post to it.
<mpool> bradb: forwarded
<SteveA> bradb: i don't know exactly what i mean ;-0
<bradb> A launchpad-users list seems like an obvious idea, to me. (i.e. an l-u that is actually publicized and used)
<SteveA> i'd rather have launchpad for users and launchpad-dev for developers
<Kinnison> SteveA: You'll break developers' finger-memory
<SteveA> it's okay
<SteveA> for things to go to the wrong place for a while
<bradb> mpool: thanks
<Kinnison> SteveA: will developers be required to be on launchpad@ if the dev list becomes launchpad-dev@
<Kinnison> and will launchpad-dev@ be private?
<SteveA> read-only to most people
<SteveA> if such a thing is possible
<Kinnison> And private/sensitive mails?
<bradb> SteveA: I think that's just a matter of making the list members-only + moderated memberships.
<ddaa> I think it's good to have devels keep sending traffic to the users mailing list at first.
<bradb> hm, yeah, a "read-only" membership. hm hm.
<SteveA> we don't have a -dev irc channel
<SteveA> and it isn't a problem
<ddaa> It will help "prime the pump". And if user traffic becomes a problem devel will naturally migrate to the other mailing list.
<Kinnison> SteveA: No, but we are careful to use a private nopaste service
* ddaa -> lunch
* bradb & # afk, bbiab
* carlos -> lunch
<siretart> spiv: hi. do you remember me? I requested from you that the gpg fingerprint of teams are listed in the .../+rdf output. whats the status about this?
<spiv> siretart: Yep, I remember.
<siretart> :)
<spiv> siretart: The code is mostly written, just needs a bit of tidying.  My laptop being stolen interrupted my work on it, and I never got back to finishing that last 10%.  Thanks for the reminder :)
<siretart> spiv: I'm sorry to hear about your laptop :(
<spiv> At least it made my luggage a little lighter for the trip back from Montreal ;)
<sivang> spiv: lol
<BjornT> any reviewer available for reviewing a 120-line (mostly tests) diff? (fix of bug 3207)
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #3207: line endings must be canonicalised before checking signatures on PGP/MIME messages Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Bjrn Tillenius, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3207
<kiko-afk> BjornT, yes.
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : launchpad.net -- next development meeting: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MeetingAgenda (Thur 1 Dec, 1200UTC)
<BjornT> kiko-afk: thanks, i'll send it to you.
<BjornT> kiko-afk: sent
* ..[topic/#launchpad:kiko-afk] : launchpad.net | developer meeting: Thur 1 Dec, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | user discussion: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com  (wiki:MailingLists)
<SteveA> thanks kiko
<kiko-afk> stub, salgado: have 5 minutes?
<stub> kiko-afk: sure
<salgado> yep
<kiko> stub, salgado: some users have complained that we disclose their email addresses
<kiko> there's also a bug open on this topic (IIRC)
<kiko> I am answering a user's email right now about this
<salgado> more than one, IIRC
<kiko> but I'd like to see if we can come up with a plan
<kiko> so far the suggestion I have is
<kiko> allow the user to hide his address, optionally
<kiko> tell him that by default his email will be publically visible
<SteveA> to launchpad members...
<kiko> when the user's address is hidden, don't display his email
<kiko> yes, to launchpad users
<SteveA> do people need to opt in to get an @ubuntu.com mail address?
<SteveA> or does it happen automatically when they get a prefered address?
<kiko> I thought that was only for "special people"
<salgado> me too
<stub> SteveA: It is automatic apon signing the CoC at the moment
<SteveA>  @ubuntu.com addresses are basically public
<SteveA> you just need the launchpad name, and stick @ubuntu.com on the end
<kiko> stub, SteveA: I think @ubuntu.com is small enough to not warrant special-treatment at this time
<kiko> only a hundred CoCs have been signed
<SteveA> agreed
<kiko> a hundred or so
<kiko> (~150 IIRC)
<kiko> anyway
<kiko> do you guys have opinions? what about my strawman proposal? how hard does it sound?
<stub> 650
<kiko> really?
<stub> Well..643
<kiko> I need to talk to mako
<kiko> he owes me something!
<SteveA> to do with his CoC ?
<kiko> he said.. well, it's not important right now
<kiko> back on track
<kiko> I suggest assuming that @ubuntu.com people are SOL for the moment wrt people guessing their addresses
<SteveA> fine, for now
<kiko> I don't know where we tell them they have @ubuntu.com addresses or I would suggest adding some text there talking about this
<kiko> anyway
<SteveA> okay, so the proposal is: email addresses are visible to launchpad users by default
<stub> Sounds fine. Just replace the emailaddress portlet with a '<blink>Hidden</blink>' message if they set an option.
<SteveA> and people are clearly told this on joining
<SteveA> and offered an option on their own page to make the email address hidden in the UI
<SteveA> except to themselves on the edit email page
<stub> It will still be possible to mine email addresses using the peopleselector widget thingy, but that shouldn't cause screaming
<kiko> that's my proposal
<kiko> stub, really?
<SteveA> we should turn that off too
<stub> kiko: Sure. Someone changed the token used by the Person vocabulary to be the primary email address instead of the Person.name
<LarstiQ> stub: are you sure about the automatic @ubuntu.com? I signed the CoC available via launchpad, but I'm not aware of an @ubuntu.com adress
<kiko> stub, "token"?
<salgado> stub, and this change caused quite a few regressions
<SteveA> (OT: is an @ubuntu.com address included in that widget's data, for people who signed the CoC?)
<kiko> (no)
<stub> LarstiQ: Try it and see - I believe it will work unless you set your name to something like 'root' or 'postmaster'
<salgado> kiko, the token is what is displayed in the widget. the thing that identifies the person
<LarstiQ> stub: I just tried, Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
<kiko> salgado, why not use the display name?
<SteveA> LarstiQ: what's your launchpad homepage?
<salgado> kiko, because that has to be unique
<stub> elmo would be the only person who knows for sure about @ubuntu.com email addresses and how often they are regenerated
<kiko> salgado, what is /displayed/ has to be unique
<LarstiQ> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/
<kiko> -- ?
<SteveA> salgado: why not use the launchpad name?
<salgado> kiko, it used to be the name, but bradb changed it to be the email addres
<salgado> s
<kiko> salgado, I thought we could use the lp name as a token and display the display name. why can't we?
<kiko> bradb?
<salgado> kiko, we discussed this quite a few times. I said I was in favour of keeping the name
<salgado> 3 months ago or so
<SteveA> LarstiQ: yep, bounces :-(
* SteveA sends RT issue
<stub> That can be done seperate to this discussion anyway - first step is to stop advertising email addresses for our tin hat wearing comrades. We can follow up with defences against mining email addresses using the search forms or calculating @ubuntu.com email addresses later.
<salgado> kiko, in the popup window we display the email address and browsername. but then, when you choose one, we have to store something that's unique. and right now that's the email address
<LarstiQ> SteveA: up to a couple of minutes ago I didn't know I could have that address, so I'm not terribly disappointed ;)
<SteveA> salgado, bradb: that should be the person.name, not the email address.
<kiko> agreed with SteveA, but I believe bradb had a reason for it
<stub> It was originally
* SteveA is interested to hear
<salgado> SteveA, bradb had a good argument (I think) that for malone users, it's easier to remember people's email addresses than launchpad names
<kiko> but wait
<SteveA> so
<salgado> so I could, when assigning a bug to someone, simply type his email address and submit
<SteveA> what has this to do with anything?
<kiko> it should be okay to /type in an email address/
<kiko> but why use the address as a /key/
<kiko> that's what we are discussing
<stub> The key is the only thing people have from differentiating 'John Smith' from another 'John Smith'. They probably both have similar Person.names.
<SteveA> if i type in stevea, the widget should use stevea as a key
<stub> But if you use the email address, it becomes more likely that the token can be used to select the correct 'John Smith'
<SteveA> if i type in steve@ubuntu.com then that can be the key
<SteveA> and if i select a name from the list
<SteveA> then the name should be the key, even if email addresses are presented
<SteveA> and, if someone's email address is private, then their email address should not be available for selection
<SteveA> only their name.  it should be as if their email address is not in the system
<SteveA> from that point of view
<Kinnison> SteveA: that's really annoying if you know someone's address but they mark it as private
<stub> Or we can leave it the way it is, because I really don't think it is a big issue. We can revisit if people feel that their privacy is being breached.
<kiko> stub, yeah, I guess
<SteveA> Kinnison: that is their choice.
<stub> But exposing them through the search form is much more benign that advertising them to the world.
<Kinnison> SteveA: consider if I mark all my email addresses as private
<Kinnison> SteveA: Now you can't easily assign bugs to me unless you know my LP user is 'dsilvers'
<SteveA> Kinnison: would you be upset if someone wrote a bot that looks up lp user names in the choice widget, and harvested your email address from there?
<SteveA> stub: agreed.  i think this will make kiko's email correspondents feel better.
<Kinnison> SteveA: Given how used to receiving spam I am, I wouldn't be desperately upset, no
<SteveA> and give them tangible benefits
<kiko> okay.
<Kinnison> SteveA: but making sure whenever we render email addresses in the UI we obfuscate them hard to prevent easy screenscraping woudl be nice
<salgado> this is another question. should people say what email addresseses they want visible or not? I was assuming that they could only choose between all email addresses bein public or all not public
<kiko> salgado, that should be enough.
<SteveA> Kinnison: then why would you mark your email addresses as private in the first place?  is there anothe reason that anti-spamming?
<Kinnison> SteveA: I suppose if I disliked receiving email
<Kinnison> SteveA: but tbh. I think hiding them from all but registered users is enough
<Kinnison> So if a user is not logged in, no email addresses
<salgado> this is how it works now
<kiko> Kinnison, that's how it works now
<kiko> but people freak out
<Kinnison> aye, and I think it's enough
<salgado> if you're not logged in you won't see a thing
<SteveA> so, the proposal is to have three states:
<SteveA>  - default: people who are logged in can see your addresses
<stub> Email addresses are obfuscated and only available to logged in people already . We are already anti-scraper enough that spammers will pick easier targets. Complaints are from the paranoid and privacy nuts.
<SteveA>  - special privacy: no one can see your addresses on launchpad pages
<SteveA> kiko: was your original complaint that the address was made public without due notice that it would be so?
<LarstiQ> stub: I'm amazed at how much work spammers do to get around things like that
<SteveA> kiko: in other words, was it the broken expectation?
<kiko> SteveA, no, the guy said "DELETE MY ACCOUNT"
<stub> LarstiQ: Are you quoting from first hand knowledge, or propagating myths?
<SteveA> i wonder if that was from being offended that the expectation was broken
<kiko> be nice stub 
<SteveA> or if the user had been given a clear notice on the registration page
<kiko> SteveA, no, he said he didn't want his email advertised. I have since written back to him telling him a bit more about the situation, let's see what he says
<SteveA> if they would have simply not joined
<kiko> I don't know enough to answer that accurately
<salgado> for the record, email addresses of automatically created accounts are never displayed because they're not validated
<stub> Sorry if that sounded abrupt - I've seen a lot of stuff people talk about as possible which gets passed on as factual.
<stub> And I'm genuinly interested if I'm a victim of the fud in that I'm discounting stuff that is real
<LarstiQ> stub: quoting from jblack
<stub> Ta. He might be talking about wiki scraping, which I believe because one automated solution would target lots of sites.
<LarstiQ> stub: who turned out to work for a spammer 1 week
<kiko> salgado, you said there were 3 states. were there actually only 2 states?
<salgado> not me
<kiko> SteveA, blundering xchat completion.
<salgado> I'm expecting for the thrid one too
<SteveA>  - you have no validated addresses
* SteveA makes something up...
<stub> new, validated, preferred, old
<kiko> boguser
<salgado> old is not used right now, AFAIK
<LarstiQ> stub: you'll have to talk to jblack for more details, I only know it involved building regexes to get around simple obfuscations
<kiko> salgado, does SteveA's first two states and the proposed plan sound good?
<Kinnison> Given the large amount of noise, I'm still unsure as to what happens when you decide to be super-secretive
<stub> LarstiQ: I will. I can believe deobfuscators, authenticating to common software and specifically targetting large sites like live journal. I'm interested in if spammers can be bothered with targetting smaller special cases like 'launchpad' or 'sourceforge'.
<kiko> Kinnison, your email addresses will not be disclosed to anyone in the email portlet (and anywhere else we discover we are blatantly disclosing email addresses, which I don't believe exist beyond the selecter widget) 
<salgado> kiko, yep. would it be better to have this summarized and sent to launchpad@ or just a bug report is okay?
<kiko> salgado, I think you can just use https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/1360 for that.
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #1360: Inappropriate display of personal data Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1360
<Kinnison> kiko: but it will still work if I know someone's address when (for example) assigning a bug to them?
<kiko> Kinnison, yes.
<Kinnison> kiko: okay, then that gets +1 from me
<kiko> this has nothing to do with /accepting/ email as input
<kiko> only with disclosing email
<kiko> or at least that much should be the case -- right salgado, stub, SteveA?
<niemeyer> Hey hey.. afternoon folks
<kiko> hey niemeyer 
<salgado> kiko, yes
<kiko> cool.
<salgado> although I think this is not going to be so easy to implement
<stub> What was the proposed implementation?
<kiko> salgado, I thought it would be: column in person table. condition in template. update schema for edit user form. is it harder?
* stub thought the same as kiko
<salgado> need changes in the vocabs and the assignee widget, at least
<stub> That sounds like stage 2, which may not actually be necessary
<kiko> salgado, let's leave the vocabs changes for later.
<kiko> does that make it easier?
<salgado> sure
* Kinnison hits kiko and stevea for having a conversation in *HIS* inbox
<Kinnison> use the sodding list
<kiko> use the D key
<Kinnison> I use a vfolder which combines all my unread mail
* Kinnison thusly has an entire screenful of your conversation
* Kinnison sighs
* Kinnison appreciates the benefits of CCing people at times
<Kinnison> but please trim the CC line when it's not obvious that the recipient should be on it
<kiko> sorry about that. I just get too much email to be able to reliably trim addresses.
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you later!
<Kinnison> kiko: and every time I get CCed when I really shouldn't have been it makes it harder for me to see my important mail too -- a problem I'm sure you appreciate
<kiko> I do, but I can't promise I can do much better. maybe you can use formail to filter out dupes?
* Kinnison ends up killing entire cross-mailed threads because he doesn't want to wade through them getting confused by multiple copies of the same thing
* kiko wonders if that is actually doable, hmmm
<kiko> mailman could check if someone was on the CC: list and not send email to them
<kiko> that could be a feature
<Kinnison> kiko: if you work out how to use formail to ensure the copy I *want*, not the first sodding copy, goes into the right box, I'd be happy
<Kinnison> kiko: NO
<Kinnison> kiko: I want the sodding mail in the mailing list folder
<Kinnison> not in my INBOX
<kiko> jesus
<Kinnison> INBOX is for mail someone sends *TO* me
<Kinnison> I.E. which requires my attention
<Kinnison> mailing lists are for conversations I'm party to, but not necessarily instrumental in
<Kinnison> perhaps I'm strange
<Kinnison> perhaps I'm wrong
<Kinnison> but I am me
* LarstiQ has the same problem
<LarstiQ> Kinnison: mailman actually does (can do) something like this
<LarstiQ> ehm
<LarstiQ> s/Kinnion/kiko/
<bradb> salgado, SteveA, kiko: back. I might be missing some context to give you a useful answer, but the person can be the .name or the email address
<LarstiQ> kiko: And I miss out on the conversation because I'm watching the mailing list
<Kinnison> LarstiQ: I have a horrible feeling the bzr-devel list does it
<bradb> the email address is always shown if there is one, otherwise .name
<Kinnison> LarstiQ: I often find mails in my INBOX where they should have been on that list
<Kinnison> LarstiQ: which causes me a large amount of grief
<Kinnison> LarstiQ: and confusion, when someone replies on list
* LarstiQ nods at Kinnison 
<kiko> bradb, okay. hmmm. I guess it might not be that hard to also use name if the person has chosen not to disclose his email addresses
<salgado> bradb, most of the people vocabs include only people with a preferred email address (and teams)
<LarstiQ> Kinnison: I think it is possible to turn that off
<bradb> salgado: after the bugzilla import is done, i expect there to be a lot of assignees that don't have preferredemails set
<salgado> bradb, and the assignee widget knows how to handle that?
<bradb> yeah, it should
<stub> Staging database has been resynced to production. I'll try a manual code update since the bzr bug is biting.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<stub> staging should be up again in about 30/40 mins
<kiko> rock on stub
<kiko> salgado, how does https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/1488 look to you?
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #1488: Launchpad IDs don't work to log in Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1488
<salgado> kiko, easy to implement, I guess. (Is this what you ask?)
<jordi> hmm
<jordi> carlos
<jordi> oh, he left
<stub> Yay. The front page on staging is broken again. Stoopid people statistics.
<jordi> I win!
<stub> Works fine once query has been executed manually and the db is prime, but is dangerous :-/
<jordi> woa
<jordi> I don't lead anymore!
<jordi> wtf
* bradb heads home, bbl
<stub> salgado: Did you ever track down what was doing """SELECT COUNT(*) FROM Person, EmailAddress WHERE Person.teamowner IS NULL AND Person.merged IS NULL AND EmailAddress.person = Person.id AND EmailAddress.status = 4""" on the front page?
<salgado> stub, one second, I think I know what it is, but I'll make sure
<salgado> stub, it's issued because we use a tal:repeat="person view/topPeople"
<salgado> stub, although the topPeople() method has a "LIMIT 5" in the query, whenever you do a list(view.topPeople()) you'll get that COUNT query issued
<salgado> the problem is that using tal:repeat shouldn't do a list(view.topPeople()), but it does
<salgado> I mailed SteveA some time ago on how to reproduce this
<salgado> SteveA, have you fixed this already?
<stub> salgado: Do you remember if there is a bug on this?
<salgado> no, I don't think there is one
<stub> salgado: Can you please create one?
<stub> I am confused as to why list(topPeople()) would be able to execute the query without the LIMIT 5, as it means the list will be allocated with 153,000 odd spaces but only 5 used.
<stub> Ohhh... because that is done using [:5]  somewhere?
<salgado> yes. inside topPeople()
<stub> So why does list(topPeople()) execute the COUNT(*)?
<salgado> AFAIK, sqlobject does that for any query, using only the WHERE clause in the COUNT(*)
<salgado> I mean, whenever you do a list(query)
<stub> So a fix would be to make topPeople do "        return list(self.getAllValidPersons(orderBy=['-karma', '-id'] )[:5] )", which means it will not be returning a result set, so the COUNT(*) will never be called.
<stub> Which won't fix all cases, but should fix this one.
<stub> oh... ignore me.
<salgado> well, the list(self.getAllValidPersons(orderBy=['-karma', '-id'] ) will issue that COUNT(*)
<stub> So it is looking like an SQLObject bug to me
<stub> That just happens to be triggered by tal. I don't think tal is broken by doing list(), as if you are ever repeating over a non-trivial sequence your UI is broken.
<salgado> I think so. but I think it's also a bug in zope, because I don't want it to call list() on things I want to iterate
<stub> kiko-fud: I've kicked off a fresh Gina run - gina.sh as usual, and  logs in the usual place.
<kiko-fud> thanks stub 
<kiko-fud> stub, this is using rocketfuel tip, I assume?
<stub> kiko-fud: Yes
<kiko-fud> thanks.
<kiko-fud> Kinnison, how about we have that phone chat we were going to have yesterday, now?
* kiko pokes Kinnison 
<stub> Is there a [@TIME@]  in wiki?
<stub> Something that gives a UTC time stamp
<kiko> umm yes IIRC, look at PendingReviews
<stub> That is using @DATE@
<stub> Not important
<maxx_730> Hey
<maxx_730> Someone else have a problem with filing a bug
<maxx_730> Complaining about " You must choose a component to file this bug in. If necessary, just guess."
<maxx_730> Even though i've already entered it?
<bradb> maxx_730: Are you talking about bugzilla?
<maxx_730> Yes
<maxx_730> I just tried with opera
<maxx_730> no luck too :-(
<bradb> maxx_730: maybe kiko has an idea. otherwise the right people to ask are probably in #ubuntu.
<maxx_730> Ok
<maxx_730> I'll try
<kiko> I'm on the phone, one moment
<bradb> stub: I saw that the db patch landed. Thanks a million.
<bradb> maxx_730: Did you manage to get a helpful answer to your question?
<Kinnison> kiko: thanks for that call
* Kinnison has to go now
<Kinnison> ciau all
<kiko> thanks to you
<maxx_730> badb: No, still not working
<maxx_730> I want to submit bugs, but it just doesn't work
<kiko> sucks to be me
<kiko> k-lined on the fast lane
<kiko> mdz, Kinnison and I spent some time on the phone today
<kiko> when you have a moment I'd like to see if you can help us out
<mdz> kiko-afk: give me a call whenever you're ready
<kiko-afk> okay, cool
* bradb & # lunch
<carlos> hi
<kiko> hi dude
<Alinux> hi carlos :)
<ddaa> good night guys
<zyga> calos: sorry, nothing new on our front today
<zyga> carlos: but instead the desktop team has something neet to show
<carlos> zyga, no worries
<carlos> zyga, what ?
<zyga> www.suxx.pl/blog, first note
<carlos> zyga, wow
<zyga> a deb is around to try :)
<carlos> zyga, does it work with other shells or only with bash?
<zyga> I don't know
<zyga> bash has command_not_found_handle
<zyga> if other shells have similar hooks this can work anywhere
<zyga> the program is written in python
<carlos> zyga, dude, that's so cool :-D
<zyga> carlos: sivang is working on windows suggestions
<zyga> maybe it's silly but for photoshop you will be advised to install gimp
<zyga> it's good for other unices though
<zyga> like for solaris
<carlos> zyga, the problem is that people does not execute windows applications from the console at least is not something usual
<zyga> aix or others
<zyga> carlos: well that's not the idea anyway
<zyga> (the windows part was only a tech test drive)
<zyga> we can put all solaris specific commands and give explanations about linux counterparts
<kiko> zyga, that is so cool dude
<zyga> same stuff for redhat stuff
<zyga> :>
<zyga> so fresh converts will pick up new tools quicky and start working instead of googling
<zyga> and think, darn this ubuntu thing is nice :)
<bradb> zyga: dude, you rock
* zyga feels great :)
* bradb drags another RSS feed link into his reader ;)
<niemeyer> When I introduce something new in config/default/launchpad.conf, should I include it in every other config as well (production, staging, etc)?
<niemeyer> Or is it done on demand?
<niemeyer> (IOW, when the option is truly needed)
<salgado> niemeyer, AIUI, yes, you should do it. otherwise stub will have to add them when he run that in production/staging
<niemeyer> salgado: Ok, thanks
<salgado> niemeyer, you're welcome
<bradb> my cool command line hack of the day:
<bradb> find . -name "*" | xargs file | perl -pe 's/^.+:\s+(.*)$/$1/' | sort | uniq -u
<bradb> debugging a problem with a search feature of a new editor I'm trying out, i wanted to get a list of all file types under the current dir. that seems to have worked, roughly.
<\sh> bradb: hey :)
<\sh> 'alps-light1' couldn't be found in command 'affects /distros/ubuntu/alps-light1'
<kiko> what does the perl do?
<\sh> that's what I got as reply trying to send this by mail to malone :) 
<bradb> kiko: my intent was for it to extract only the type info out of the "file" input. seems to have worked.
<kiko> is that how you file bugs on source packages using the email interface?
<bradb> \sh: looking, one sec
<\sh> kiko: no...that was the answer to a correct new bugreport 
<\sh> kiko: seeing that everything else worked :)
<kiko> \sh, I'm confused.
<kiko> what bug did you file?
<\sh> kiko: we are filing merging bugs in malone...via email interface...from 170 bugs filed with a small util we wrote, only this one was failing :)
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/people/shermann/+reportedbugs check it :)
<BjornT> \sh: i'm working on improving the error messages over the next week ;) the error you got should mean that the package doesn't exist in malone
<\sh> BjornT: ah...this is something else :) who is responsible to add packages to a distro? 
<bradb> \sh: apt doesn't know about that package, it appears
<ajmitch> BjornT: how long does it generally take for launchpad to see that I filed a bug via email?
<\sh> bradb: sure...it's in breezy
<\sh> aeh dapper
<bradb> ah, dapper
<\sh> apt-get source alps-light1 
* ajmitch filed 1 about an hour ago that hasn't shown
<bradb> we don't have dapper data in launchpad, AFAIK
<ajmitch> bradb: yeah, we only care about dapper now :)
<bradb> a useful error message could have helped made this clear
<ajmitch> it's fairly important that we get the package data in, I think
<\sh> bradb: ok...so there is a diff between the breezy source packages and dapper sources
<\sh> -ENOTMYFAULT :)
<bradb> kiko: presumably this is blocked on a gina run, right?
<BjornT> ajmitch: it shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes. i'll check if your message caused an error
<ajmitch> BjornT: or it could be some slow mailservers somewhere - I sent from ajmitch@ubuntu.com if it helps you look it up
<\sh> BjornT: to report the times...this error message took 3 mins longer then a positive answer of malone
<kiko> bradb, yes, it is.
<kiko> ajmitch! did you note my email?
<kiko> ajmitch, your email is getting dropped
<kiko> because IIRC your key is not registered
<ajmitch> great
<kiko> I wrote to you about it
<ajmitch> I registered my key back at UBZ
<ajmitch> I didn't see your email
<kiko> Unknown user: Andrew Mitchell <ajmitch@ajmitch.dhis.org>
<ajmitch> hm
<bradb> ajmitch, \sh: so, getting the package information in is blocked on a successful gina run. i don't know when this will happen, but kiko probably does. sorry for the confusion/misery that this will cause in the meantime.
<kiko> I think this email isn't registered in launchpad, actually.
<ajmitch> it's not
<kiko> wtf
<ajmitch> and it shouldn't be sending from that address
<\sh> bradb: no prob at all...I just wondered what happend :) 
<kiko> it will happen soon
<kiko> ajmitch, "it"? :)
<ajmitch> so I can blame \sh's script ;)
<kiko>  bradb@canonical.com
<kiko>     SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<bradb@canonical.com>:
<kiko>     host fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com [82.211.81.145] :
<kiko>     550 <bradb@canonical.com>: Recipient address rejected:
<kiko>     User unknown in virtual alias table
<kiko> bradb, wtf?
<ajmitch> kiko: the dhis.org address isn't in launchpad, and shouldn't be used
<bradb> kiko: !?
<bradb> i didn't send that
<kiko> that's what /I/ got
<kiko> ajmitch, ah, okay.
<kiko> well
<kiko> that's why it's bouncing
<kiko> ajmitch, you don't read my emails? :-(
<ajmitch> kiko: I didn't get your mails
<ajmitch> sorry
<bradb> kiko: that email never worked, AFAIK. it's brad.bollenbach
<bradb> i'm not good enough for $nick@canonical.com
<ajmitch> kiko: were they important emails?
<kiko> bradb, you are definitely good enough, you might as well request it.
<kiko> ajmitch, well, emails saying that the bugs you filed were dropped!
<bradb> kiko: do i have to open an RT ticket for these types of things now, and if so, where's the RT instance at?
<kiko> bradb, I think you can find this information on the wiki, but yes
<ajmitch> \sh: changing the send method to smtp fixes the from address in the envelope
<kiko> alias rt-canonical Canonical Admins\' RT <rt@admin.canonical.com>
<\sh> ajmitch: aehm
<kiko> bradb, that's the one
<\sh> ajmitch: use smtp auth
<\sh> ajmitch: or fix your mta
<ajmitch> :P
<\sh> ajmitch: for postfix this is easy
<bradb> kiko: thanks
<ajmitch> we'll see if the ones I'm filinf again get through
<kiko> \sh, wow, amazingly cool work
<\sh> ajmitch: do you need somehow a working SMTP server with SMTP AUTH 
<\sh> kiko: what? the bugs...or the script?
<ajmitch> ah that was a lot quicker
<ajmitch> bugs filing alright now, sorry about the hassle :)
<\sh> kiko: bzr branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools -> take a look on lpbugs.py
<\sh> kiko: 1h hack for a handy motu LP tool in python 
<\sh> and a "so to be replacement" for reportbugs but LP based is in production..with a nice GUI (gtk and hopefully qt) for latest dapper+1
<ajmitch> much better than the hackjob I was writing during breezy ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: can you resend sistpoty's mail to the ihug.co.nz address, btw? something is going slow with the ubuntu.com address
<ajmitch> I should talk to someone about it - mails to mdz got lost at some point
<\sh> ajmitch: i did
<ajmitch> hm
<kiko> \sh, are you serious about reportbug?
* ajmitch hates email
<\sh> kiko: yes...I had a look on reportbug and too many switches too many options for the normal user...
<\sh> kiko: so I'm writing a tool where u search the package...(just a few characters..and u get a list of all packages sorted by source package names and versions)
<\sh> u choose...write the bug report...and send it straight away to malone
<kiko> wow
<kiko> that is so cool
<kiko> we were discussing this at UBZ!
<\sh> if u want to have a status update, it searches for the productname == packagename in the subject of your reported bugs, or searches through LPs advanced bug query page..(but I want to have actually something xml-ish or xmlrpc interface) 
<\sh> and should fetch the bugs for this package...
<\sh> kiko: what I need is something where I can query easily the bug database...best would be a xmlrpc interface..with some lightweight functions
<kiko> yes, we need to work on that, but it's not for this next 3 months.
<kiko> \sh, does your tool do the same data collection that reportbug does?
<\sh> kiko: we have time...we're just busy with the merges and transitions...and after UVF I can work fulltime on it
<bradb> \sh: maybe i missed this, but how do you plan to handle authentication?
<\sh> kiko: I want to implement this
<bradb> \sh: I think auth can be reasonably pulled off if we turn off password auth for the email and XML-RPC interfaces (i.e. rely on identification instead)
<\sh> kiko: completly automagically and hiding from the user...less user interaction, more data, but easy to handle..only the bugreport and LP data has to be set (and the email conf(
<kiko> I wonder if we need a special structure to store the data we collect. we've mused about this in the past.
<kiko> this could tie in to ogra's hwdb stuff
<\sh> for the time, when there is no xmlrpc interface or no easy way to fetch a full list of bugreports for e.g. "query assignee" I will setup a public imap folder on tiber ( canonical sponsored motu server for revu and stuff like this) to fetch the bug reports from there
<\sh> in a similar way as we do now on http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py
<kiko> hmmm
* bradb would excitedly go fully command-line with malone if the tools were available
<\sh> bradb: well...the interface is completly indipendent from the gui :) 
<\sh> bradb: so we can write as well a cli only client
<kiko> \sh, you know that reportbug has pluggable backends, right?
<\sh> bradb: thats why I can write the gui for two desktops
<bradb> cool
<\sh> kiko: yes..read the manpage..when I imagine I'm a normal user, it would scare the hell out of my brain
<\sh> even bugzilla is easier then reportbug (IMHO)
<thierry> when a bug is set as a duplicate, he stays has "New"... couldn't we change that? because sometime when we look at a list of bug it just shows "New" and you don't know it's a duplicate
<kiko> thierry, dupes are filtered from buglists unless someone has undone my patch.
<thierry> kiko : well not from bug list that open when you're watching a bug and you look at the right bottom list of the bugs that are from the same package...
<kiko> thierry, ah. that's a good point. should dupes be filtered from that, thierry?
<thierry> kiko : look there : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vim/+bug/3222 
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #3222: gvim does not have a menu entry Fix req. for: vim (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3222
<thierry> kiko : well yes! other ways we are wasting time watching bugs that are dups of bugs that are already fixed!
<thierry> if you look at the link, right bottom list, bug 3743 is new but duplicated of a fixed bug
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #3743: gvim.desktop should not be packaged with vim Fix req. for: vim (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3743
<kiko> okay.
<kiko> good point.
<kiko> can you file the bug?
<kiko> I have just the person to fix it
<bradb> thierry: good catch.
<thierry> kiko : where do I fill it?
<thierry> bradb : thanks :)
<kiko> thierry, on malone.
<bradb> thierry: launchpad.net/products/malone/+bugs
<thierry> thanks going to do that
<bradb> the "Report a Bug" link
<thierry> kiko , bradb : bug 4837
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4837: right bottom bug list duplicate problem Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4837
<bradb> thierry: you rock, thanks for taking the time to help out
<kiko> bradb, sounds like matsubara-task?
<bradb> kiko: sure
<kiko> cool
<\sh> we need an adultcheck for LP pr0n content...depending on geo-ip based location services and sex detection for MoF
<jordi> \sh: does this have anything to do with the Pornlets?
<kiko> it must
<\sh> yes...
<jordi> kiko: It is time to unveil the MOCKUP
* jordi mails malone.
<kiko> omg
<jordi> DONE
* kiko hides
* jordi unveils the new template import policy to Rosetta-users.
<bradb> that is HOT!!@J!
<jordi> haha
<bradb> it's about time there were some smooth curves in portlets
* bradb & # out, bbl possibly
<jordi> nite brad
#launchpad 2005-11-30
<kiko> anyway
<kiko> night guys
<zyga> night 
<mdke> who would be a good person to start to talk to about integration between launchpad and the ubuntu documentation team svn repository?
<khorben> someone knows if there are still actual bounties opened?
<jordi> mdke: what kind of integration?
<jordi> automatic import of pos?
<spiv> mdke: Or commit privileges based on launchpad team membership?
<mdke> spiv, yeah that
<spiv> Ah :)
<mdke> jordi, pos?
<mdke> oh doh
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> no, not that
<jordi> ok
<spiv> mdke: So, we have something like this for bzr coming fairly soon.
<jordi> then I have no idea :)
<mdke> just commit privs and such
<jordi> ah
<jordi> that's cool
<mdke> maybe karma :D
<spiv> Where every member of a team will be able to commit to bzr branches at sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~team-name/product-name/branch-name
<mdke> spiv, we are quite slow with technology, we have to get our heads around bzr eventually and see if we can use it
<spiv> And that gets republished at http://... (same url, aside from http/sftp).
<spiv> mdke: Right.
<mdke> if so, then that would be cool
<spiv> mdke: At the moment, bzr is probably slightly rough for svn users.
<mdke> spiv, got a simple guide anywhere?
<spiv> mdke: But there's stuff that was spec'd at UBZ that would make it pretty friendly.
<mdke> sounds good
<spiv> Specs about "lockstep development" iirc, but the bzr guys will know more :)
<spiv> mdke: So, it's probably a case of "not yet, but soon" for you.
<spiv> Where is soon is only a month or two, hopefully.
<mdke> cool
* mdke goes lookin for a guide
<mdke> spiv, so given that, it's probably not worth arranging any svn integration
<mdke> ah the guides look comprehensive
<spiv> mdke: #bzr are pretty helpful too.
<mdke> thanks
<spiv> Yeah, we're hoping that everyone will think bzr is better than svn :)
<mdke> i need to understand the why's and wherefores of decentralised version control
<mdke> i suppose there must be some projects where decentralisation is bad?
<spiv> For sufficiently simple stuff, it can be a complication you don't need.
* mdke nods
<spiv> I think you may be in that basket, from what I've heard.
<mdke> me too
<spiv> Hence the lockstep development stuff :)
<mdke> is there a way round that with bzr?
<mdke> ah, ok
<spiv> There's specs about this on bazaar.canonical.com
<spiv> http://bazaar.canonical.com/LockStepDevelopment?highlight=%28Lock%29
<spiv> Or just http://bazaar.canonical.com/LockStepDevelopment
<mdke> :)
<mdke> yeah that sounds like what we do a lot
<spiv> With that you could still use the decentralised bits if you need them, but the default mode of operation has everyone working with the same branch.
<mdke> ok that sounds promising stuff
<mdke> spiv, by the way do you know if that MoinMoin user.py hack of yours would work on Moin 1.3.5?
<spiv> mdke: Probably -- that's roughly the version we're using, I think.
<mdke> on the off chance
<spiv> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemInfo says 1.3.4
<mdke> yeah, same on the canonical one
<spiv> Which is probably 1.3.4 + debian patches + my hack.
<mdke> okay cool
<mdke> spiv, thanks for your help
<spiv> You're welcome.
<spiv> Hmm, I can't seem to add a comment to a malone bug in the web UI using only the keyboard.
<spiv> Because I can't tab to the "Add a comment to this bug" expander.
<spiv> Time for shift-numlock I guess...
<jamesh> lifeless: I'm getting this error on a merge from rocketfuel:
<jamesh> bzr: ERROR: Branch /home/james/src/rocketfuel is missing revision Arch-1:rocketfuel@canonical.com%launchpad--devel--0--patch-1071 of x_Carlos_Perello_Marin_<carlos.perello@canonical.com>_Sun_Oct__3_15:36:08_2004_9002.0
<lifeless> jamesh: hmm
<lifeless> jamesh: I would try a reweave-branches/
<jamesh> my bzr doesn't seem to have a reweave-branches command
<lifeless> its a plugin
<lifeless> checks the plugins page ;0
* jamesh checks the plugins page
<jamesh> so reweave my branch, or rocketfuel, or both?
<lifeless> reweave rocketufel yourbranch
<lifeless> one command
* Kinnison heads off
<jamesh> lifeless: doesn't seem to make any difference
<lifeless> jamesh: garh. 
<lifeless> let me see
<jamesh> the branch is /home/warthogs/archives/jamesh/launchpad/bzimport
<jamesh> s/bzimport/bugzilla-import/
<jamesh> lifeless: any ideas?
<lifeless> jamesh: not yet, juggling things
<jamesh> okay
<lifeless> jamesh: try a fetch-ghosts
<lifeless> that revision *is* in rocketfuel
<lifeless> (bzr log -r revid:Arch-1:rocketfuel@canonical.com%launchpad--devel--0--patch-1071)
<jamesh> fetch-ghosts from rocketfuel to my branch, or the reverse?
<jamesh> the error message claims that the revision is missing from a file in the rocketfuel branch
<jamesh> the "bzr log" command you gave prints a log message in both my branch and rocketfuel
<lifeless> oh I see
<jamesh> the file ID appears to correspond to database/sampledata/current.sql
<stub> lifeless: Can you please tag launchpad/devel rev 2848 as production/1.40 (or should I attempt PQM again?)
<lifeless> stub: I shall do so
<lifeless> stub: I think pqm needs some tweaks in tag, so if you have a problem do this:
<lifeless> sudo to pqm
<lifeless> bzr branch -r 2848 launchpad/devel launchpad/production/1.40
<lifeless> in the pqm home
<lifeless> and copy that to the public copy in /home/warthogs/archives/
<stub> Ok. In tomboy for next time.
<lifeless> the last commit that that pulled was 
<lifeless> revno: 2848
<lifeless> committer: Canonical.com Patch Queue Manager<pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com>
<lifeless> timestamp: Wed 2005-11-23 22:10:04 +0000
<lifeless> message:
<lifeless>   Speed up search for shipit orders, which was causing lots of RequestTimeOuts in production. r=stub
<stub> Yup - that is the one
<lifeless> copying to public now
<stub> I think I was wrong suggesting category/version/branch btw. 
<lifeless> I'll try to debug it for tuesday
<lifeless> that missing revision error
<lifeless> which way around made it work ?
<lifeless> stub: ^^
<stub> The dud branch is stub/launchpad/LibrarianGarbageCollection.unmergable. You get the error message merging trunk into that branch.
<stub> Merging that branch into trunk works, however.
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> was it baz2bzr'd ?
<stub> Nope. Pure bzr.
<lifeless> funky cold medina
<jamesh> stub: was your error anything like mine?
<stub> Missing patch (blah blah Arch1 carlos blah blah)
<lifeless> jamesh: same thing
<stub> Yah launchpad/production/1.40/1.40. lifeless - You want me to nuke it and recopy ?
<lifeless> stub: huh? did you do it while I was ?
<stub> Nope
<lifeless> ...
<lifeless> well we have a 1.40 which has teh right tip
<lifeless> what do you want me to do ?
<stub> Nuke the 1.40/1.40 directory so I only have 200MB to transfer around instead of 400MB?
<lifeless> done
<lifeless> I'll look more closely at this missing revision error tomorrow
<lifeless> I have to go for SLUG now
<stub> Reverting...
<stub> Traceback (most recent call last):
<stub>   File "./refuel.py", line 382, in ?
<stub>     main()
<stub>   File "./refuel.py", line 378, in main
<stub>     config.buildMirror()
<stub>   File "./refuel.py", line 126, in buildMirror
<stub>     self.buildBranchMirror(source, launchpad=True)
<stub>   File "./refuel.py", line 165, in buildBranchMirror
<stub>     Branch.open_containing('.')[0] .set_pending_merges([] )
<stub> AttributeError: '_Branch' object has no attribute 'set_pending_merges'
<stub> :-(
<stub> I'll try some work arounds later
<stub> (pull the prebuilt rocketfuel and bzr pull --overwrite on it)
<lifeless> erm
<lifeless> that looks like a mismatch in bzr
<lifeless> are you using the bzr from sourcecode/rollouts ?
<lifeless> because it definately does not do that
<stub> ok - could me my cut&paste revert implementation in refuel.py - I'll do it manually
<stub> Yes - that is it. My problem.
<lifeless> code in refuel should use the bzr in the lp tree I think
<lifeless> does that make sense to you?
<stub> Yes - I'll invoke it using subprocess. It was previously using cargo culted code from bzrlib's revert command
<lifeless> thats not -quite- what I meant
<lifeless> I mean, it can either subprocess, or it can use the bzrlib library from sourcecode/bzr
<lifeless> but it cant use a random system one, bzr is moving too fast
<stub> Refuel can't use bzr form the lp tree, because its function is to *build* the lp tree. That is what rollouts/bzr.integration is to avoid (?)
<lifeless> isn't refuel to *update* the lp tree?
<stub> Unless I start by rsyncing the prebuild rocketfuel tree and working back from there.
<lifeless> thats what it was before
<stub> It does both. 
<lifeless> then it should be *in* the lp tree, surely?
<stub> It is in the configs tree
<lifeless> ah
<stub> Anyway - go to SLUG. I have enough to work with for now.
<jamesh> lifeless: re: your mail to launchpad-devel, will the sftp paths passed to pqm have to change like the ones to bzr are changing?
<lifeless> jamesh: hmmm ?
<jamesh> i.e. sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com//home/warthogs/archives/login/launchpad/branch instead of sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/login/launchpad/branch
<lifeless> presumably
<lifeless> I should check that spec, as I think that that is a very dubious thing
<jamesh> section 2.2 of http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-secsh-scp-sftp-ssh-uri-03.txt
<stub> It would be nice if we can shorten those URLs sometime - the '/home/warthogs' bit could go with the simple addition of a symlink in chinstraps root directory
<lifeless> later, byte
<jamesh> so the arch patch log for rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-1071 doesn't actually modify database/sampledata/current.sql
<jamesh> weird
<stub> I'm off for an hour or three.
<carlos_> morning
<SteveA> morning
<SteveA> hi stub 
<stub> SteveA: Hi
<SteveA> i skimmed the channel scrollback.  was there some stuff about xmlrpc interfaces earlier?
<sabdfl> lifeless, SteveA: http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=05/09/23/1954240
<sabdfl> linux softphones
<stub> SteveA: Not when I was online
<SteveA> carlos: hello
<carlos> SteveA, hi
<stub> Launchpad will be going down in 30 mins. Downtime estimate is 45 mins total.
<SteveA> i just looked over your code review responses, and i'll make a full reply when you send me the new diff.
<jordi> carlos: can we look into the pending plural forms and country languages?
<SteveA> i think if you use "return None" rather than "raise NotFoundError" in the places I pointed out, it will result in less code, and less complex code overall.
<carlos> jordi, as soon as I finish with UploadTranslations review I will do it
<carlos> jordi, don't worry ;-)
<jordi> k
<SteveA> that is, there isn't any point in raising NotFoundError in database code if you always catch that error and use some other value in other code
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<SteveA>  __getitem__ should always raise NotFoundError
<SteveA> because NotFoundError is a subclass of KeyError
<SteveA> and __getitem__ has a contract that says it raises KeyError if it is not found
<SteveA> (actually, the mail libraries in python break this, and it is confusing because of that)
<\sh> morning
<SteveA> hello \sh 
<\sh> guys...is there any way to have a global ML for all bugreports coming into malone...no matter which product and which person/team is assigned to a product
<SteveA> maybe.  what would it be for?
<\sh> but only bugs, which are affecting one distro (as add)
<\sh> to have a similar functionality like bugzilla
<SteveA> you want to be able to subscribe to all new bugs filed on a particular distro?
<\sh> as an example: affects /distros/ubuntu/ace where ubuntu is the distro, ace the package/product...but the mail is now only received or send out to the assignee
<\sh> yes
<SteveA> so, this list wouldn't get changes in those bugs or resolutions to those bugs
<\sh> SteveA: well..this should be implemented :=
<\sh> :) even
<SteveA> i'm trying to understand exactly what you're asking for, and what it could be used for
<\sh> right now I'm only able to see changes to a bug report, when the assignee has a ML for the bugreports (e.g. universe-bugs for the MOTU team)
<SteveA> sometimes, making launchpad send mail is the answer.  sometimes, this reveals something that launchpad itself should offer that isn't necessarily mail.
<\sh> but if someone else (an individual) is assigning the bug to himself, only the assignee and requestor are seeing the changes..but nobody else (via mail)
<\sh> I would like to see such a feature like sending out emails for all new reports, changes and all status changes towards a global distro specific ML or email address...
<BjornT> \sh: bradb is working on https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/InitialBugContacts, that should cover your use case
<SteveA> okay, i understand what you're asking for now.
<\sh> regarding all bugs filed against a distro product
<SteveA> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/InitialBugContacts does this, as BjornT points out.  Although, it is for all bug traffic.
<SteveA> if you just wanted new bugs, you'd have to filter it at the mail-receiving end.
<BjornT> \sh: the bug contact for ubuntu will probably be ubuntu-bugs, which will receive all the notifications, so you would have to subscribe to that ml and filter out the ones your interested in.
<\sh> so reading this spec...it should work like this: distro X has several bug contacts (means teams in LP) and I can assign the teams as bug contacts..the team itself has a ML for email support
<SteveA> carlos: as to returning SelectResults, we do it quite a lot.  The main problem with doing so is that SelectResults is a very broad interface, and hard to use in unit tests.  But it works out okay in general.
<carlos> SteveA, is there any problem if I leave the code as it is? or do you prefer the SelectResults?
<BjornT> \sh: well. a distro only has one bug contact (but that will probably be a ml you can subscribe to). then each source package in the distro can have a bug contact as well.
<SteveA> carlos: it should be simpler to just return the SelectResults.  and simpler code is easier to maintain.
<\sh> BjornT: ok..I'm asking because e.g. ubuntu is splitted in 2 halfs, main and universe, and I don't want to subscribe to two or more MLs :) 
<BjornT> \sh: the long term plan is that you should be able to subscribe to distribution and package bugs in launchpad itself, but we don't have time to implement that at the moment.
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<SteveA> it should be possible to filter based on component
<SteveA> if the email has the component in it
<BjornT> \sh: well. you'll only have to subscribe to ubuntu-bugs, it will receive both main and universe bugs
<SteveA> and i see that it does
<\sh> BjornT: cool :)
<SteveA> in X-Launchpad-Bug
<SteveA> in that header
<\sh> thx for all the informations :)
<BjornT> np, happy to help
<siretart> btw, is it possible to get a list of all open bugs I'm currently subscribed to?
<carlos> stub, how could I know from a pagetemplate if there are error messages in the notification queue after using BrowserNotificationMessages ?
<carlos> stub, request/getNotifications ?
<BjornT> siretart: not at the moment, but soon. bug 4788 is reported about this, and it's in pending upload state, so the fix is waiting to be rolled out.
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
<siretart> BjornT: cool. and thanks!
<stub> carlos: Yes - that would work. webapp.interfaces.INotificationRequest and INOtificationResponse for the API
<stub> (sorry - sound was off again)
<stub> carlos: But it isn't designed for message passing, so you might want to consider storing your status flags elsewhere rather than attempting to parse and understand the notifications
<carlos> stub, ok
<carlos> stub, I just need to know if there was any error or not
<stub> carlos: Just because there is a notification, doesn't mean there is an error.
<carlos> so I thought that perhaps the new system has a way to know that
<carlos> yeah
<carlos> I know
<carlos> I will use my own flag then
<carlos> with old code I check if the 'alerts' list was empty or not
<carlos> stub, thanks
<SteveA> stub: the interfaces should really be in interfaces/launchpad.py
<stub> launchpad is back up
<ajmitch> yay
* ajmitch was waiting to lookup some bugs :)
<jordi> ajmitch: did you DO IT?
<ajmitch> need to merge in a patch before I upload!
<jordi> cooome on man
<matsubara> good morning!
<SteveA> hi diogo
<SteveA> stub: what things should go in a launchpad development deb that shouldn't go on a production server one?
<SteveA> stub: um... ctags, vi, gnu id tools, submit to pqm scripts
* SteveA was joking about vi
<carlos> SteveA, dude, after all changes I'm doing you will need a new full review...
<SteveA> carlos: that's fine.  it should be a straightforward review, with lots of familiar code.
<SteveA> you're doing important work.
<SteveA> i'll review it for you as soon as you're ready.
<carlos> SteveA, I know, don't worry
<carlos> it's just that I'm changing many code at the same time I'm changing the methods
<carlos> not a big deal ;-)
* cprov -> good morning people
<carlos> SteveA, running tests
<carlos> SteveA, should I sent the diff directly to you or with the answer to last review ?
<niemeyer> Morning cprov, morning everyone
<gneuman> mornig niemeyer 
<cprov> niemeyer: moning gustavo, how is it going with grumpy ? 
<niemeyer> cprov: Slowly and constantly :)
<cprov> niemeyer: right, did you set your local buildfarm ?
<niemeyer> cprov: Is the plan for changing the soyuz build system for hct still up?
<niemeyer> cprov: Nope.. still mirroring, and I've spent some time helping David with some bits this week as well
<cprov> niemeyer: in thesis, yes, but practically speaking, we are way busy til soyuz production
<niemeyer> cprov: And what does it mean, in practice? :)
* carlos workraves
<SteveA> carlos: it is easier for me if you send the answer to me and the reviews list, and send the new diff directly to me
<cprov> niemeyer: I see, mirroring is painfull, since you get the stuff in a hard drive  you need to protect them as you protect your child ;)
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<SteveA> niemeyer: how did things go yesterday?
<cprov> niemeyer: the plan is not up for this year :(
<niemeyer> SteveA: Quite good.. 9.4 out of 10.. I just have to fix a few bits in the paper to keep the grade.
<niemeyer> cprov: And when do you see yourself starting to work on it, and finishing it?
<SteveA> niemeyer: sounds good :-)
<carlos> SteveA, also, you want a diff against my previous code or a diff against rocketfuel?
<cprov> niemeyer: huuu, hard to say, in fact, no schedule was done for it yet and the priority is low, IMO any ETA I can give you would be blue sky idea, sorry 
<niemeyer> SteveA: Yeah.. but what is really good is getting over that step. I wasn't looking for a nice grade like that even.. getting over it is the biggest prize.. :-)
<cprov> niemeyer: how much does it affects you and grumpy ?
<SteveA> carlos: there was a lot to change.  can you send me both?
<carlos> sure
<niemeyer> One year writing something is.. erm.. boring..
<niemeyer> cprov: Let's say that without this Grumpy doesn't exist :)
<niemeyer> cprov: We'll have to change that priority somehow, to put it on schedule
<cprov> niemeyer: I see,  jump to ##soyuz1.0, let's sort it out (if you have time now)
<salgado> SteveA, ping
<SteveA> hi salgado 
<salgado> SteveA, I'm having some problems with ShipItReports. do you have some time to talk about it? (should be quick)
<SteveA> okay.  can we talk in 10 mins time?
<salgado> sure
<SteveA> is there any code you want me to look at?
<SteveA> or is it a design issue?
<salgado> SteveA, I think it can be considered a design issue.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> hi salgado 
<SteveA> talk here okay?
<salgado> sure
<salgado> maybe not
<SteveA> okay.  #c-m
<stub> SteveA: PostgreSQL 8 and friends and any setup scripts
<stub> salgado: If shipitreports gives you trouble, punt it to me. I can throw it together with psql and cron fairly easily which will keep people happy.
* stub goes back to TV
<salgado> stub, is it possible to get csv filed out of cricket?
<stub> salgado: cricket isn't really suitable for this. psql can spit out csv if you ask nicely though.
<SteveA> stub: can you talk with mdz (email perhaps) about what should go in what launchpad dependency packages to make it useful for you to use in production?
<stub> SteveA: I can't use it in production - I can't install debs. This would be for elmo/Znarl
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> but, how often do these things change?
<SteveA> and when they do, getting admins to install a deb is a nice way to do it
<SteveA> and to update a dev
<SteveA> deb
<stub> Enough that nearly every time we setup a new box something is missing ;) 
<SteveA> so a deb would help
<stub> yes
<stub> I'll talk to mdz anyway - it is pretty obvious what is dev and what is base
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> i'd like to get the ctags and idtools in a development package
<SteveA> basically, get all recommended tools in one place for developers
<jordi> SteveA: I started writing the announcement for the import policy last night
<jordi> I want to run it through carlos and you before sending to the list though
<carlos> jordi, URL to the annoucement?
<jordi> carlos: scp://nubol/Mail/postponed :)
<jordi> ie, not yet :)
<carlos> ok
<carlos> :-)
<Kinnison> elmo: can you please email myself and cprov with how to get at the uploads on rockhopper for testing the launchpad uploader?
<carlos> stub, .... where is the getNotifications implementation?
<carlos> stub, I'm able to see the interface, but I don't find the implementation
<carlos> stub, I have a test that uses "from zope.publisher.browser import TestRequest"
<carlos> and I need to get the notifications that the test produced
<carlos> and If it's possible, I don't want to add my own boolean variable in this case as it's only needed to run the tests...
<SteveA> jamesh: did you get the "turn mail off on bugzilla import" thing sorted?
<BjornT> SteveA: i've braindumped the implementation part in https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadFormLayout, could you take a look at it and see if it makes sense, or if we should try to do it in some other way?
<stub> carlos: I don't think it is possible except as a page test - brad was looking into it.
<SteveA> BjornT: can you ask me for feedback on it using launchpad?
<BjornT> SteveA: sure
<SteveA> ta
<carlos> stub, ok, then I need to reduce the test checks removing the info message check and relay on the database changes...
<stub> carlos: But I still suspect you are going about the problem the wrong way - remember that other code might start adding notifications too that you don't control
<stub> eh?
<carlos> stub, it's a test that Is checking the "the submit worked, thanks" message
<carlos> using the old way to do notifications
<carlos> is not a new test
<carlos> and I'm trying to adapt it without rewrite it completely
<stub> It should be a page test really.
<carlos> we already have such page tests
<stub> Just because you used to set the alerts list doesn't mean it was ever displayed ;)
<carlos> so I suppose I can leave the other tests and just remove the info message test
<stub> The implementation is in webapp/notifications.py anyway. Brad might have had some success looking into this - ask him when he is online
<stub> It would be possible to do the test as you describe, but needs more infrastructure to wire it up.
<stub> (extend the TestRequest, adding a stub implementation of the notifications machinery)
<stub> Which wouldn't be hard really - it doesn't need to actually work or propogate the messages - just store them where tests can look
<stub> Feel like extending TestRequest and making it implement INotificationRequest enough for your test to work?
<stub> It would just need to stuff the arguments in a list where your tests can inspect them
<carlos> stub, I suppose that would work...
<carlos> I will take a look after lunch
<carlos> stub, hmmm the implementation lacks the getNotifications method
<carlos> stub, but I suppose it's the same as getting the notifications property, right?
<stub> Oh - looks like that should be removed. notifications is a property
<stub> But I doubt accessing the real implementation in your tests will work, because the session machinery won't be hooked up. Anyway - a mock implementation is fine.
<carlos> stub, I was just noting that the interface and the implementation was out of sync, I don't think I will use it ;-)
<stub> ok :)
<stub> Feel free to remove the unused method from the interface while you are there.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> stub, should I update the spec?
* carlos -> lunch
<stub> I don't know. The spec is implemented, and I don't think we bother to keep them in sync with future code changes.
<carlos> stub, well, the spec is supposed to reflect the implementation...
<carlos> anyway, will talk about that later
<carlos> lunch time!
<stub> kiko: Looks like the gina run finished 5 hours ago.
<kiko> that's not bad news, thanks stub 
<kiko> stub, mdz, Kinnison: gina run 100% successful.
<kiko> SteveA, did you get my emails from yesterday?
<SteveA> i got some emails from you yesterday
<kiko> thanks. I'm concerned about getting the show on the road
<kiko> SteveA, also, could you formalize the "catching exceptions" thread into a FAQ of sorts?
<SteveA> kiko: project G ?
<kiko> SteveA, well, that one I'm scratching my head about. but the other ones, related to soyuz
<SteveA> i just had part in a discussion about hct and soyuz infrastructure with niemeyer, Kinnison and cprov.  cprov is summarizing, and will mail you a summary.
<kiko> okay, cool
<kiko> niemeyer, what's on your plate at the moment?
<SteveA> there are other soyuz things of course
* SteveA goes for lunch
<cprov> kiko: the summary will  be delayed for 14:00[BRT] , I'm still working on it 
* cprov lunch
<kiko> sure
<niemeyer> kiko: I was (am) away for lunch.. sorry..
<kiko> sure
<niemeyer> kiko: No outstanding individual tasks for the moment
<kiko> so what are you looking at starting today? :)
<niemeyer> kiko: Planning to have a look at soyuz
<kiko> hmmmm
<kiko> may I interest you in some soyuz work?
<niemeyer> kiko: Btw, I have a system that redirects personal messages as SMS to my mobile phone when I'm out
<niemeyer> kiko: Was quite funny to get "what's on your plate at the moment?" in the restaurant. :-)
<niemeyer> kiko: Sure
<kiko> heh :)
<Nafallo> lol
<niemeyer> kiko: Btw, I'll stay 2 weeks bothering you at async in January, programming with cprov on Soyuz.
<kiko> niemeyer! why don't you come next week?
* niemeyer looks at the calendar
<kiko> we need soyuz help today
<niemeyer> Yes, I think that might be possible indeed
<niemeyer> And would speed up SoyuzProduction
<niemeyer> Which is a dependency of the generalization
<kiko> and I /really/ need soyuzproduction delivered
<niemeyer> Yes, sounds great
<kiko> mdz arrives on the 14th ftr
<niemeyer> I'll check if I have any pending local tasks to do, and try to be there on Monday or Tuesday.
<ddaa> niemeyer: looks like you're not going to have too much trouble finding work to do :)
<kiko> great.
<niemeyer> ddaa: Indeed :)
<niemeyer> ddaa: Anything besides graduation projects, and I'm happy :-)
* ddaa reminisces about "World of Nemo", and seagulls shouting "mine! mine! mine! mine!"
<niemeyer> ddaa: So far it looks more like "yours! yours! yours!"
<ddaa> Matter of perspective, I was thinking "your time is mine!"
<niemeyer> ddaa: Ahh, yes :)
<ddaa> kiko: how would you feel about letting me add the following snippet to lib/canonical/launchpad/ftests/harness.py? https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileDqFPj3.html
<kiko> ddaa, you're going to need to give me some context.
<ddaa> The idea is that in a unittest source file, you just do "register(__name__)" at the end, and that 1. creates a automatic test_suite function 2. execute the tests in this file if it was called as a script.
<ddaa> It's more or less ripped from something Keybuk and I invented independently for pybaz and hct.
<ddaa> The only issue is that some people may find the "register(__name__)" to be a bit too magic.
<ddaa> you can propose a better name if you can think of one though
<ddaa> kiko: so, how does that sound?
<kiko> how are unittests being run at the moment?
<ddaa> usually, through the ./test.py
<ddaa> But I think that some of them may be runnable directly.
<ddaa> most of them
<ddaa> need to check though...
<ddaa> Mh...
* Kinnison notes that since ddaa's branch got merged, bzr vis got fairly useless for launchpad
<Kinnison> :-(
<ddaa> hu?
<Kinnison> ddaa: take a look at a bzr vis in launchpad
<ddaa> URL to the plugin please
<Kinnison> petitemort% cat dev-bzr/bzrk/.bzr/parent
<Kinnison> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bzr/bzrk/
<Nafallo> package bzrk in jbailey's repo.
* ddaa checks
<ddaa> Kinnison: I see.
<Kinnison> ddaa: any idea what that was?
<ddaa> the launchpad--branchdatastorage--0--base-0 is fucking the display up
<ddaa> It might help if somebody converts the branch it tagged from and merge it into rocketfuel.
<ddaa> That should be a no-change merge that would only fill ghosts.
<ddaa> Though I can imagine the issue becoming quite recursive...
<ddaa> That's probably a consequence of my "custom" conversion script.
<ddaa> too lazy
<ddaa> Kinnison: get the idea?
<elmo> Kinnison: rsync rockhopper::
<Kinnison> elmo: right
<Kinnison> cprov: ping
<ddaa> Mh...
<ddaa> No apparently, it's more than that...
<Kinnison> elmo: only from inside the DC yes?
<elmo> Kinnison: yes.  it's like 13Gb of stuff; do you really want it available from elsewhere?
<ddaa> look like this base-0 has some redundant ancestors
<elmo> kinnison: I can make it available if you like *shrug*
<Kinnison> elmo: I think it's okay for it to be inside the DC
<Kinnison> elmo: any chance we can have ubuntu.com in chinstrap's search path?
<ddaa> Kinnison: maybe the ancestry would be worth sanitizing, for removal of redundant ancestors.
<Kinnison> ddaa: I guess this is a call that lifeless will have to make
<ddaa> Kinnison: I mean, in bzrk
<ddaa> input sanitisation
<Kinnison> ddaa: Oh right
<elmo> Kinnison: done
<Kinnison> elmo: thanks dude
<Kinnison> elmo: can you do me a favour and dump the output of running du -sk / on mawson, into my homedir on chinstrap? bzip2ed would be fine
* Kinnison wants to know where the disk space went
<Kinnison> only half the disk is in the dogfood librarian
<Kinnison> where is the other half :-)
<SteveA> salgado-lunch: hi
<SteveA> salgado-lunch: mailed you some monday-handling code
<Znarl> Kinnison : I could do that.
<Kinnison> Znarl: if you could, I'd appreciate it
<Znarl> Kinnison : If you could create an RT ticket?
<Kinnison> remind me how to do that?
<Znarl> Email to rt@admin.canonical.com
<Nick1> hello
<Nick1> someone?
<SteveA> hello Nick1 
<Nick1> I want to start using Linux
<Nick1> do i have to know something
<Nick1> spacial
<Nick1> ?
<Nick1> special**
<SteveA> well, ubuntu is a good place to start looking at linux
<SteveA> unfortunately, we don't tend to talk about this on the launchpad channel
<SteveA> try #ubuntu maybe?  but i'm interested to know
<SteveA> where did you read about #launchpad ?
<Nick1> OK 10x
<Nick1> ill check it
<Kinnison> Znarl: sent
<Nick1> mm at: https://launchpad.net/+login
<ddaa> I though it was spelt "200 OK"...
<Znarl> Thanks.
<SteveA> Nick1: and how did you get there?
<SteveA> Nick1: do you know about shipit ?  you can get ubuntu cds sent to you for free.  shipit.ubuntu.com
<Nick1> my friend ordered a disk from you
<SteveA> cool
<Nick1> and told me that linux is good:)
<Nick1> so i want to start using that cause i dont like windows
<SteveA> in my opinion, linux is the way of the future.  but it it's pretty good already.
<Nick1> so is that 100% free to israel? [ths shipit
<ddaa> Nick1: just curious, why do not you like windows?
<Nick1> i has many bugs:\
<SteveA> there isn't any charge to have a few CDs sent to you.  however, it is possible that the israel customs people will make a small charge
<Nick1> O.. OK ill cjek it
<ddaa> Nick1: all software has bugs.
<Nick1> ddaa: u use windows or linux?
<Nick1> mm.. yes but linux less has less
<Nick1> has less**
<ddaa> Well, I'm a developer for this Canonical company, so I'd be in trouble if I used Windows :)
<Nick1> O..:) i understand:)))
<Nafallo> heh
<ddaa> Nick1: quality is important, but here is a better reason to like Ubuntu: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html
<Nick1> O.. 1 sec
<ddaa> no hurry
<Nick1> and what is that Kubuntu :\?
<ddaa> It's ubuntu but which installs KDE instead of GNOME by default. If you do not know about KDE and GNOME, just pick plain Ubuntu.
<Nick1> i read about that some where, don't remeber where:\\
<bradb> BjornT: Hi, I've got a user asking if they can put more than one "affects" line in a submit-bug mail. Does this work?
<Nick1> ddaa: O.. OK thnks... and if i order it today, for example, when will i get it?
<ddaa> Isn't that explained on the shipit page? It should usually takes between 2 weeks and 2 months.
<Nick1> O.. i didnt read everything :) i amd such kazy:)
<ddaa> There are plans in the work for people to be able to pay to get a faster delivery.
<Nick1> OK but thank u very much
<Nick1> ddaa: where did u come from?>
<ddaa> I'm here all the time.
<BjornT> bradb: well, yes, it should be possible. multiple affects means multiple bug tasks, though, not multiple bugs.
<SteveA> BjornT: hi
<BjornT> hi SteveA 
<bradb> BjornT: That's what I'd expect.
<SteveA> BjornT: why don't we just use a view @@widgetrow or something for the LaunchpadFormLayout ?#
<SteveA> the view can be registered at the level different classes if needed
<BjornT> SteveA: and register different views on different widget classes?
<SteveA> but we might want to impose some order on it by using a range of launchpad-specific interfaces
<SteveA> and slap these interfaces onto existing classes
<SteveA> indirectly, so we can add interfaces to zope classes from launchpad configuration
<Nick1> ddaa: no... :) a country.... I'm from israel
<SteveA> then just use views, rather than new TALES namespace stuff, or tal:condition stuff
<ddaa> Nick1: I live in Paris, France.
<SteveA> make a view that says "i know how to render a table row for this"
<BjornT> SteveA: yes,  the last section talks about that (not in detail, though)
<Nick1> O.. cool
<SteveA> BjornT: if the only reason not to do that is to get the HTML into one file, then we can still do that
<SteveA> but that's really an optimisation
<BjornT> SteveA: i'd be happy to go for that, and skip the TALES adapter.
<SteveA> do it as "normal" views, and we'll work out a way to put it all in one file after it lands, if it proves to be still important then
<SteveA> for example, we can do tricks with macros to do this
<BjornT> SteveA: i originally wrote it because it was the first i thought of, without changing anything in zope3. than i remembered that it's easy to make classes implement interfaces without changing the class definition ;)
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> we can also register view / adapters directly for classes
<SteveA> although that does require a bit of faff (and for no good reason) in zope3 using zcml to do it
<SteveA> in brief, at some point in the past, shane noticed that there were no tests explicitly of registering adapters / views for classes from zcml
<SteveA> so he disabled it
<SteveA> and i don't think anyone has written tests of this since
<SteveA> there have been a couple of times i've wanted to use it, but not been sufficiently inconvenienced to write tests upstream
<SteveA> anyway, nice to see an effort to tidy up the launchpad UI infrastructure
<BjornT> SteveA: i'll change the spec, to talk about defining marker interfaces and define views instead of a TALES adapter.
<SteveA> what views do we need?
<SteveA> i think it is just a view that represents this widget as a table row
<BjornT> yeah, that should do it
<SteveA>  interfaces/widget.py and browser/widget.py and zcml/widget.py ?
<BjornT> SteveA: ?
<SteveA> suggestion of places for the code to live
<SteveA> the interfaces need to be in interfaces/(something) or people will get confused
<SteveA> maybe  interfaces/widget.py  and webapp/widget.py and webapp/widget.zcml
<SteveA> i think i like that better, actually
<BjornT> ah, i was confused by zcml/widget.py
<cprov> Kinnison: pong
<Kinnison> cprov: hey, so from the DC you can rsync to rockhopper which has the breezy autotest stuff
<Kinnison> cprov: it has the sources as well as binaries
<Kinnison> cprov: okay?
<Kinnison> cprov: if you start with main, then that'll be grand
<cprov> Kinnison: do you mean rsync from DC to here ? much like "no way" whit the current link
<BjornT> i'm not sure what the policy is, of what goes under webapp, but it sounds good to me.
<Kinnison> cprov: Hmm
<cprov> Kinnison: ok only main 
<Kinnison> cprov: once i've worked out where the space went on mawson, you could use that if you want
<Kinnison> It'd be nice to try stuart's librarian GC on mawson
<Kinnison> see how much we can clean up
<cprov> Kinnison: I've seen, librarian is that ... I wonder if we can use LibrarianGC in DF
<cprov> oh ... duhhh
<Kinnison> the librarian is only 50% of the usage on mawson
* Kinnison has filed an rt request for znarl to produce a du for me
<cprov> Kinnison: it would be very nice to use mawson for upload-tests, instead of locally sync ... 
<Kinnison> cprov: once we've worked it out and cleaned it up, you're welcome to use mawson for it
<cprov> Kinnison: I'll sync at least main or other minimal set during the weekend
<ddaa> pqm has reached the 24h backlog hallmark
<ddaa> I think at this point it's safe to call it a productivity bottleneck :(
<Kinnison> ddaa: cripes
<Kinnison> ddaa: You think each merge costs four hours?
<ddaa> I'm not saying anything about how long merges take, just that they certainly take too long.
<Kinnison> Oh, you mean the top merge is 24hrs old
<Kinnison> I wonder if pqm is bustificated
<Kinnison> It might be turned off
<Kinnison> ready for the transfer to a dedicated host
<SteveA> maybe
<ddaa> dunno, I received my last failure notification not very long ago today.
<SteveA> salgado: do you have all the week / date stuff you need now?
<Kinnison> ddaa: Unfortunately the UI doesn't show us when pqm started on the top item in the queue
<ddaa> (the cvs spawning bug, not fixing it because it'll go away when pqm gets a dedicated system)
<Kinnison> ddaa: So all we know is it was 24 hrs since that one was submitted
<salgado> SteveA, haven't looked yet. I'll look now
* Nick1 is away, auto-away after 20 minutes, (log\off pager\on)
<ddaa> Kinnison: yup, feel like asking lifeless about fixing that lack of diagnostic info?
<Kinnison> carlos: ping?
<carlos> Kinnison, pong
<Kinnison> carlos: Your ~ on mawson is 18G
<Kinnison> carlos: care to clean it up a bit?
<carlos> sure
<carlos> just a second..
<salgado> SteveA, that should do it. thank you very much!
* niemeyer has to leave for handling some pending tasks to be free to travel to async next week.
<niemeyer> Will be back later today.
<carlos> Kinnison, wow, where did the other 500GB go?
<Kinnison> carlos: we're working that out now :-)
<Kinnison> carlos: 50% of it is in the dogfood librarian
<Kinnison> carlos: and we're unsure what to do yet about all that
<carlos> ok
<stub> Kinnison: LibrarianGarbageCollection is in pqm if you want to test it ;)
<Kinnison> stub: Does it handle the following:
<Kinnison> stub: stuff in .../incoming/ which is now dnagling?
<Kinnison> stub: stuff in the librarian root which is dangling/orphaned
<Kinnison> ?
<stub> IIRC incoming is only used during upload - should be able to clear that out on a restart. And nothing should be in the librarian root. Or am I not following you?
<Kinnison> I mean 00/* etc
<stub> It merges duplicates and removes entries that are no longer being referenced by anything
<stub> yes
<Kinnison> right
<Kinnison> cool
<Kinnison> once it's in RF I'll deploy it on mawson and try it
<Kinnison> ddaa: I think the current delays aren't helped by there still being three baz2bzrs running
<Kinnison> ddaa: namely cprov's stub's and sabdfl's
<ddaa> yeah, and somebody claims that's baz2bzr is fast so we can just convert all the importd branches on a single system :(
<SteveA> we should have those killed off until we've moved pqm
* cprov baz2brz is scary
<SteveA> elmo / Znarl ?
<cprov> let me know if you should stop it again
<Znarl> SteveA ?
<Kinnison> it's incremental
<Kinnison> so stopping them won't hurt restarting them later
<SteveA> Znarl: please would you kill baz2bzr processes on chinstrap
* Kinnison isn't saying pqm is running, just observing the baz2bzr processes
<Kinnison> in fact, pqm isn't even vying for CPU on chinstrap
<Kinnison> so killing them isn't worthwhile for now
<SteveA> is cpu the issue?
<Kinnison> Right now, PQM isn't even trying to run
<Kinnison> so I assume it has been stopped for the swapover to the dedicated box
<SteveA> okay, looks like it
<SteveA> Znarl: so, sorry, false alarm
<Znarl> No problem.
<Kinnison> ARGH, rollout.py doesn't work
<Kinnison> stub: ^^^
<carlos> Kinnison, I'm using now 123MB
<carlos> Kinnison, I hope it's enough for you ;-)
<Kinnison> carlos: thanks babe
<kiko> babe?
<Kinnison> kiko: calm down. You're still my number one
<carlos> ;-)
<Mystilleef> Hello, how do I set up my project to use rosetta?
<carlos> Mystilleef, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ
<kiko> Kinnison, thanks for your reply to silbs. I think.
<Kinnison> kiko: I wish I could be more positive about this
<kiko> I only ask that we be realistic
<kiko> do you think my prediction is unrealistic?
* Kinnison isn't sure to be honest
<Kinnison> as I said, without a detailed look into things, I don't want to even guess
<Kinnison> given how bad at it I've been in the past
<kiko> safe 
<kiko> gneuman, I have a patch for bug 2718 already done in a tree of mine
<Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
<carlos> SteveA, hi, around?
<SteveA> hi, around
<carlos> SteveA, so
<gneuman> kiko, then i am closing it
<gneuman> ok?
<carlos> I have zope.publisher.browser.TestRequest
<kiko> gneuman, leave it, I'll close it when I merge
<gneuman> ok
<carlos> SteveA, and I have to expand it to implement INotificationRequest
<carlos> SteveA, where should I add the new class?
<carlos> canonical.launchpad.webapp.TestRequest ?
<bradb> carlos: I've already extended it in my branch
<carlos> bradb, oh
<carlos> bradb, is it merged into rocketfuel?
<bradb> carlos: but, i'm only half way there, there's sessions to get working with the test machinery too
<bradb> carlos: nope
<carlos> hmmm
<SteveA> bradb: that makes me worried
<SteveA> bradb: why do you want to get sessions workingn with the test machinery?
<bradb> SteveA: So that notifications work
<SteveA> i see
<SteveA> can you punt this back to stu?
<SteveA> i'd rather you were focused on getting directly malone stuff done
<bradb> SteveA: Yeah, I've been meaning to. I gave up on the sessions a few days ago.
<SteveA> bradb: unless already done: file a bug, assign to stu.
<bradb> ok
* carlos decides to disable the notification checks then...
<SteveA> "hard to test notification messages in normal tests" or something like that. 
<SteveA> i guess
<stub> Kinnison: Pull rollout.py from stub/dists/devel (which is still with pqm)
<Kinnison> stub: urgh
* SteveA heads out for a while
<Kinnison> PQM like this is utterly arresting development/progress for me
<bradb> Kinnison: Indeed. Landing is pretty much a no-go lately.
* Kinnison nods bradb
<bradb> My most recent submission has been in pqm's queue for about 24 hours. Is it possible to not be pissed off by that? :)
<Kinnison> Well, as I said earlier, I think PQM has been turned off
<bradb> Oh, missed that
* Kinnison grins
<stub> It has - I just checked the crontab and the cron job is commented out. An announcement would have been nice :-/
* Kinnison sighs
<Kinnison> go Lifeless
<stub> Oops... getting snarky. Must be bed time. Night!
<Kinnison> night stub
<kiko> Kinnison, there's some mail that I'd like you to get to sooner rather than later so if PQM is fscking you..
<Kinnison> kiko: which ones?
<kiko> anything related to soyuzproduction
* Kinnison looks
* Kinnison was going to do the abstract job queue stuff
<Kinnison> I.E. braindump the launchpad taskmaster stuff
* Kinnison can't find any mails marked "for reply" which he hasn't replied to yet
<kiko> are you in sync with cprov's latest messages? if so, okay
<Kinnison> what? the three-task ones, yeah they're okay
<kiko> you saw mark's suggestion to do a single one, right?
<Kinnison> yes
<kiko> and you have no reply? :)
<Kinnison> It would work
<Kinnison> it'd be a shorter test, but it'd show up anything glaring
<Kinnison> We still intend to do the breezy autotest stuff
<Kinnison> which will catch anything major
<kiko> that only tests uploads, though.
<Kinnison> yes, but tracking dapper for three days will test the autobuild
<kiko> "test" you mean.
* Kinnison cocks an eyebrow
<kiko> Kinnison, I mean, 3 days of testing critical infrastructure which has never been used before..
<TheMistery> sal all
<kiko> am I being too negative?
<Kinnison> kiko: You're being unfair
<TheMistery> any macedonians here ?
<Kinnison> kiko: The build system was tested strongly by dogfood
<kiko> Kinnison, that is a good point.
<Kinnison> kiko, cprov: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadTaskMaster#
<salgado> SteveA, ping!
<SteveA> hi salgado 
* cprov reading spec
<salgado> SteveA, I have a security-proxied StringIO object, and it seems like we don't have the necessary zcml to say it's a file-like object
<salgado> in other words, I can't do anything with my StringIO
<SteveA> we can fix that
<SteveA> what is the exact type() of the object
<salgado> should I add the necessary zcml so I can use its methods?
<SteveA> ?
<SteveA> yes. 
<salgado> cStringIO.StringO
* Kinnison heads out
<Kinnison> cprov: If you have updates, add 'em
<Kinnison> cprov: let's spend the next few days adding any braindump notes we can think of to the spec
<Kinnison> cprov: when niemeyer returns, ask the same of him
<cprov> Kinnison: will do so ...
<salgado> SteveA, I looked for the zcml to change, but couldn't find it
<SteveA> salgado:  we need to write new zcml
<salgado> SteveA, should it be in lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/?
<bradb> BjornT_: I submitted a bug via email about half an hour ago, but the bug hasn't been opened yet in production, and I've gotten no email (error or otherwise) about it. Any idea?
<niemeyer> The item no. 1 in PQM queue has more than 24 hours. Is that usual!?
<salgado> niemeyer, pqm was turned off without any notice
<niemeyer> :-(
<salgado> I hope it'll be comming back in a new dedicated box
<BjornT> bradb: for some reason the signature failed to verify. i'll take a look why that happened, it could be the bug i fixed yesterday
<bradb> BjornT: FWIW, I only just add another uid to it an hour or two ago, but I sent it to the keyservers, and it worked okay uploading the key into LP.
<bradb> (s/uploading/importing/)
<BjornT> bradb: hmm. could you send a small signed message to me, like only one line or so? makes it easier to debug.
<bradb> oops, /me does that once more, unencrypted
<bradb> BjornT: sent, ignore the first message that comes down
<BjornT> thanks
<bradb> BjornT: Would it be easy to make sure that the user always gets an error message if an email they send doesn't process successfully?
<BjornT> bradb: not too hard, that's one of the things i plan to work on next week.
<bradb> cool
<BjornT> bradb: hmm, i think i know how to fix it. i'll take care of it on monday. btw, could you send me an email where the signature is detached from the message?
<kiko> Kinnison, nice job dude. nice job.
<bradb> BjornT: sent
<BjornT> bradb: thanks. i just wanted to make sure it validated ok. so until the bug is fixed, detached signatures should work.
<bradb> ah, ok. /me tries again.
<bradb> BjornT: cool, it worked (except it ignored "priority High", when it should have set the priority to High)
<BjornT> hmm, that's strange
<BjornT> or maybe not....
<bradb> ?
<BjornT> bradb: it's not implemented yet ;) i'll probably include that in some patch, though, it's less than 30 minutes of work.
<bradb> maybe I can try writing that patch?
<bradb> I have a vague idea of how to do it, I think
<bradb> and you can be the reviewer? (I need to get to know the email code. It's all a black box to me currently.)
<bradb> And because I plan to drive Malone via email pretty much entirely from this point forward.
<kiko> rock and roll bradb 
<BjornT> bradb: sure, it's an easy fix, and it shouldn't conflict with my work.
<bradb> BjornT: cool, thanks. /me starts looking around.
<kiko> SteveA, before you leave, give me a ping?
<carlos> bradb, are you using the 'addInfoNotification' methods or just 'addNotification' ?
<bradb> carlos: addNotification
<carlos> stub told me to use addInfoNotification as the spec says
<carlos> bradb, I see the  implementation, but when I try to use them I get: AttributeError: 'BrowserResponse' object has no attribute 'addInfoNotification'
<carlos> bradb, do you use anything special to use the notification system?
<bradb> carlos: nope
<carlos> other than just call self.request.response.addNotification...
<bradb> carlos: There should be a method with a name shorter than addInfoNotification, that should Just Work. addNotification seems reasonable, IMHO. if the callsite wants to do something explicitly different than the default (like an error message, warning, etc.) that should be the time to think about extra typing. IMHO.
<bradb> carlos: that's all
<carlos> bradb, well, I have some Warning and Error messages to
<bradb> for those passing in an extra arg to addNotification is reasonable, IMHO
<carlos> bradb, but the spec says... : "Steve thinks we should not expose the base addNotification method, and developers instead only use the shortcuts.
<carlos> "
<bradb> Yeah, I saw that.
<carlos> bradb, What drives me crazy is that if addNotification works, the others should work too...
<bradb> There is some benefit in shortcut methods in that they reduce import. I don't really care too much either way, tbh.
<carlos> ok..... that's weird... AttributeError: 'BrowserResponse' object has no attribute 'addNotification'
<carlos> I think this is a problem with the tests....
<bradb> carlos: how are you creating that error?
<bradb> carlos: yep, that would be it.
<carlos> so I should disable the test until your patch is finished and merged into rockefuel?
<bradb> carlos: I opened a bug on this problem and gave it to stub. High priority.
<carlos> ok, I will disable the test in the mean time....
<bradb> ok
<SteveA> lifeless: ping
<bradb> BjornT: I've got a patch to add the priority command. Short and sweet. Do you have a couple mins to take a look, by any chance?
<BjornT> bradb: bradb sure. e
* bradb e's it
<bradb> BjornT: sent
<kiko> hey lifeless 
<BjornT> bradb: looks good. although, could you please rename the function to submit_commands again? i've modified it to take a bug as well, so it would save me some conflict resolution.
<bradb> BjornT: ah, ok, in that case it would make sense. thanks.
* bradb heads off
#launchpad 2005-12-01
<lifeless> SteveA: pong
<kiko> he's gone
<lifeless> ah well
<ddaa> hehe, I think I found the way to fix bzrk with launchpad :)
<ddaa> still need to optimise that a bit to be more reasonable with memory
<kiko> cool
<kiko-zzz> thanks Kinnison 
<kiko-zzz> you got some big mail coming your way soonish
<Kinnison> kiko-zzz: I'll look tomorrow
* Kinnison heads to bed
<kiko-zzz> lifeless?
<lifeless> mmm ?
<mazg> hello
<mazg> If I want to start a new translation team. is it enough for me to make in https://launchpad.net/people/+newteam?
<kram> hello
<kram> is anyone here, perchance?
* sivang is back , for a while
<matsubara> good morning!
<kiko> good morning matsubara 
<kiko> dude
<kiko> could you file bugs for each of the top errors in the error report?
<kiko> there's some there that have been showing up for the last month already
<kiko> we need to fix them
<matsubara> kiko: about the request expired?
<kiko> darn, missed stub
<kiko> matsubara, no, about the real errors (NotFound, essentially broken links)
<salgado> is pqm in the dedicated server already?
<matsubara> kiko: done.
<kiko> thanks matsubara 
<kiko> salgado, not yet
<kiko> stub!
<kiko> dude!
<kiko> stub, can you kick off one last gina run?
<salgado> kiko, because it's not running on chinstrap either
<kiko> <lifeless> elmo: btw, balleny is not quite ready, I've mailed back to the same rt bug
<sabdfl> hi all
<kiko> hello sabdfl 
<kiko> how's this gloomy saturday?
<kiko> matsubara, thanks -- did you check with salgado about the shipit issue, too?
<kiko> sabdfl, I produced a report of the differences in the publisher output
<kiko> summary: 6 bugs, 2 issues we're unsure about
<kiko> the bugs seem quite shallow
<matsubara> kiko: yep. He said that link doesn't point to anywhere.
<kiko> there's a link?!
<matsubara> sorry, the URL
<kiko> matsubara, what I want to know is who is /linking/ to that URL
<matsubara> kiko: nobody
<salgado> this must be links found by bots in the old shipit
<kiko> that is possible.
<sabdfl> kiko: excellent work
<sabdfl> kiko: can i ask you to pass this on to mpt and spiv?
<sabdfl> http://microformats.org/wiki/rest/ahah
<sabdfl> i don't want to start work on that now
<sabdfl> emphasise that please
<sabdfl> i want us to get to a first cut of lp that is consistent and clean
<sabdfl> then we can try this sort of thing
<sabdfl> this looks a little cleaner than plain AJAX
<kiko> interesting
<kiko> okay, I'll write some mail on this to them
<sabdfl> spasibo
<\sh> hmm...any timeframe when the next dapper package to LP product db import is running?
<sabdfl> mdz: up?
<kiko> \sh, what package name do you need?
<\sh> alps-light1, felix, exiv2
<\sh> I think I will fall over more during the merge and transition work
<kiko> one sec
<kiko> \sh, created.
<\sh> kiko: thx
<sivang> kiko-afk: looking it ahah , looks pretty nice
<crimsun> kiko-afk: ping, please add libterralib as a valid source package (for use in tracking libstdc++ allocator and merge candidates in Dapper), thanks
<kiko-afk> crimsun, done
<crimsun> kiko-afk: thanks!
<kiko-afk> fud time
<stub> kiko-afk: Do I need to clean the db first, or just run it?
* stub kicks off a run, nuking nothing from the db
<kiko-afk> stub, just a regular run. thanks
<W0n6> hello
<W0n6> ?
#launchpad 2005-12-02
<radix> does SteveA generally disappear for the weekends?
<LarstiQ> radix: I haven't really paid attention to that
<Burgundavia> radix, likely, as he is paid to work on lp
<radix> right :)
<LarstiQ> oeh!
<LarstiQ> someone implemented subscribed bugs in the web interface!
* LarstiQ hugs said person, whomever it may be
<lifeless> stub: ping
<stub> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> i just nuked 3 corrupt jobs
<lifeless> you have sftp://chinstraphome/warthogs
<lifeless> and variations thereupon
<stub> 2 corrupt jobs, and I just fixed bzr-submit-merge on the wiki so others don't have the same problem
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> whats your x-push-data file contents ?
<stub> chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/stub/dists/devel/
<stub> There seemed to be a missing '/' in bzr-submit-merge. 
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> copied and pasted from my working one
<lifeless> ah-oops
<sivang> moins all
<shawarma> Hi! Is there  any way to view the complete list of specifications?
<Hieronymus> hello
<Hieronymus> How come the French translation page in Rosetta lists more packages than the Dutch one?
<Hieronymus> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/fr and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/nl
<LarstiQ> hmm, I don't see a distinction between Serbian in Cyrillic and Latin anywhere
<\sh> guys, is it possible to have the support tracker tool on launchpad to work as well for teams, like an "RFP" tracker for MOTU?
<\sh> let's say, I select the "MOTU" team, and file a support ticket for having "shiny-software-5.0" packaged for universe?
<sivang> \sh: does the moto have something like that currently?
<\sh> sivang: well...a wiki page
<\sh> UniverseCandidates..which is for this purpose a but degenerated...we thought about using RT but if there is something like a support tracker in LP...why not using this
<\sh> s/but/bit/
<sivang> \sh: if it supports the notion of group assignments of requests and has sufficient enough emailing interface , ofcourse
<\sh> sivang: yes..but https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+tickets doesn't show up anything to create a ticket :)
<shawarma> Hi! Is there  any way to view the complete list of specifications?
<sivang> \sh: hmm, maybe we need it to be a "motu" product? :)
<\sh> shawarma: all approved, or actually all?
<shawarma> \sh: either.
<sivang> \sh: seems issues are only registered against a product, not a team
<\sh> shawarma: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
<shawarma> \sh: I'd really like to take a look at all the Ubuntu Server specs to see if there's anything I can work on, but I can only view the 10 newest.
<\sh> sivang: jepp...product or distro
<\sh> shawarma: see the url
<sivang> \sh: We need to ask Bjorn about that then
<shawarma> \sh: How on earth did you find that?
<\sh> shawarma: well..I used it when I was in the reviewing team during UBZ :)
<shawarma> \sh:I've been clicking everywhere, but never been able to find anything but the 10 most recently added.
<shawarma> \sh: Well, thank you!
<\sh> shawarma: to see even the assignees https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specstable
<\sh> shawarma: you're welcome..even when i'm totally clueless...as I had to read a couple of minutes ago ;)
<bercik> hey 
<bercik> when I get e-mail with activation?:p
<BjornT_> \sh: so, basically you'd want it to be possible to open a ticket on a team, that's not necessarily associated with a product or distribution?
<sivang> BjornT_: you're here? :-)
<\sh> BjornT_: that's what I thought about...well..thinking of MOTU it belongs to distro ubuntu ... but is in need of this feature :)
<bercik> when I get e-mail with activation?:p sorry for my englisch ;p
<BjornT_> sivang: of course :)
<bercik> english ;p
<BjornT_> \sh: yeah, although i would guess that if someone request support to MOTU, it's always about ubuntu. the same is probably true for most teams.
<\sh> BjornT_: yes, right, but this is special..it's a type of debians "RFP" or "ITP" 
<\sh> process
<sivang> BjornT_: why does it make a difference? I would think that being able to open a ticket against a team would be possible without having to associate it with a distro product
<\sh> so to have a package to hit ubuntu, it needs to go to universe first...
<LarstiQ> bercik: it was immediate for me
<BjornT_> \sh: i'll have to think about it will fit into the changes to the support tracker that will happen. could you file a bug about it (or better, create a spec ;), so i won't forget it?
<\sh> BjornT_: sure...but not today..let me do it tomorrow :) 
<BjornT_> \sh: sure, thanks :)
<\sh> BjornT_: spec to launchpad product? or ubuntu?
<BjornT_> \sh: launchpad
<\sh> BjornT_: k...you'll get your spec :)
<sivang> BjornT_: are you also working on the spe tracker?
<BjornT_> sivang: well, it does make a difference some difference, as how to implement it. my point was that you probably don't need to have the possibility to associate with both a product/distribution and a team, which makes it somewhat easier.
<sivang> BjornT_: I had the same though :) we could be following ticket against ---->team---[assoc. with $DISTRO] .
<BjornT_> sivang: i hope not :) actually, i'm probably going to be the one implementing email notifications for it.
<sivang> BjornT_: email interface for the spec tracker you mean?
<BjornT_> yeah
<BjornT_> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SpecTrackerEmailInterface
<BjornT_> (it's only a rough braindump so far, though)
<sivang> anyway, re: tickets against team, those tickets could be indirectly assoc. with a distro through the team assoc itself. Does that sound sane?
<sivang> BjornT_: hmm, I need to make some time and help you out with that rough braindump. maybe add some ideas etc..
<BjornT_> sivang: yeah, that sounds sane.
<BjornT_> sivang: that would be really great
<sivang> BjornT_: I had some ideas back then, maybe I can refine and use my spare moments tomorrow at work to add them. Also, do you know if you could inherit email interface of support/malone trackers and just change syntax and semantics?
<\sh> sivang: why?
<sivang> \sh: what why? :)
<\sh> Also, do you know if you could inherit email interface of support/malone trackers and just change syntax and semantics?
<\sh> the syntax can stay like it is...the status fields has to be changed :)
<sivang> \sh: ah, that's actually waht I meant. but to allow greater flexiabilty (ouch, here is that word again) you might want to have better extended semantics for support tickets that a bug tracker might not support or expose
<sivang> not support/expose by design, that is
<\sh> sivang: well...actually a support ticket is a subview of a bug ticket..everything what a support ticket can have, could be filed even in a bug ticket...
<\sh> sivang: IMHO !! :)
<sivang> :-)
<\sh> .oO(I have no clue!)
<\sh> I should trademark this statement 
<BjornT_> sivang: yeah, the support email interface will probably be similar to malone's.
<sivang> \sh: LOLO
<\sh> BjornT_: but get rid of the gpg signed email for filing bugs/support tickets...
<ajmitch> \sh: you sound like bddebian
<sivang> but, thinking in general terms, what about things like price quotes per ticket, departments invovled, status (which is basically different from a bug status) etc..
<LarstiQ> ajmitch: what, about trademarking? :)
<sivang> as I see it, a support ticket might sometime have more data over a bug -
<ajmitch> LarstiQ: no, the 'I have no clue' thing
<\sh> BjornT_: or think a bit more complicated: if it's a gpg signed mail, which identifies user X which is in team A and is able to change the status and some other stuff for the bug/support ticket, then allow him to do it...if there is no gpg signed mail, drop all action keywords 
<LarstiQ> ajmitch: yeah, that is what I mean
<BjornT_> \sh: i'll see what i can do. it requires some discussion, but i think it should be possible to file a bug without having a gpg key.
<\sh> BjornT_: well..the possibilty must be given, to send always a gpg signed mail to create a special report with action keywords in it, to file it directly to a special assignee or set a status != new
<\sh> anyways back to my merges :)
<\sh> which i'm doing without a clue ,)
<sivang> a bug should ideally be a technical description of a technical system specific problem. While a support ticket need not always result in a bug. 
<sivang> \sh: why do you keep saying you have no clue? you seem to have more clue then everybody else. The fact I don't say I have no clue doesn't make me less clueless
<BjornT_> \sh: yeah, something like that. when i have time i will bring it up with the others for discussion.
* sivang .oO(Thinks about what he just said....)
<\sh> sivang: read ubuntu-devel ml...then u know why :)
<sivang> \sh: I wish I could :-( pitti's server has been hacked and we need to wait for monday so the server farm compnay will restore a backup :...-(
<\sh> sivang: say this again? hacked? pittis server?
<sivang> err ops /me runs
<sivang> actually that was a lie
<\sh> didn't he install the latest security patches?
<sivang> :)
<\sh> hehe...I'll tease him with this :)
<sivang> well, it was mostly a DoS
<sivang> \sh: please don't, I don';t know if I was supposed to tell about it :)
<\sh> sivang: I know how it feels to be hacked
<\sh> sivang: well..it's logged now :)
<\sh> but do not worry
<sivang> \sh: I really don't understand what people have to be hacking with piware.de, such a wonderful server with a wonderful name
<\sh> sivang: hackers don't do this..these are scriptkiddies
* sivang really hates those crackers / chaous havoking people
<sivang> yes
<sivang> that is why I said crackers :-) 
<ajmitch> sivang: you just announced it on a publically logged channel :P
<sivang> erm
<\sh> not even crackers...crackers are cracking copy protection
<\sh> or phreaking..
* sivang erases eveybody's memory in this channel
<sivang> (and logs)
#launchpad 2005-12-03
<tuxedo_kamen> hi everyone
<tuxedo_kamen> i have some questions about translating xchat, can anyone please help me?
<tuxedo_kamen> please? :|
<mdke_> tuxedo_kamen, sup?
<tuxedo_kamen> :|
<tuxedo_kamen> can you help me?
<mdke_> tuxedo_kamen, it depends what your problem is
<tuxedo_kamen> translating xchat
<tuxedo_kamen> for example, this: ---$t$1 added to notify list.
<tuxedo_kamen> should I just translate he text, or the strange numbers too?
<mdke_> tuxedo_kamen, just the text
<mdke_> sorry for slow reply
<tuxedo_kamen> hum, ok
<mdke_> tuxedo_kamen, are you using rosetta?
<tuxedo_kamen> it's just that on the suggestions everything is wrong! >_<
<tuxedo_kamen> yep
<mdke_> it is a good idea to have a look at a translating guide
<mdke_> and also, read the instructions that rosetta gives you about strange symbols (it sometimes gives comments on strings)
<tuxedo_kamen> I know that, but I just found it weird that their suggestion always had the wrong numbers
<mdke_> tuxedo_kamen, it is probably because the suggestion comes from an older version of the software, or something
<tuxedo_kamen> for example: orignal % 2 2 2
<tuxedo_kamen> hum, yeah, maybe
<tuxedo_kamen> thanks for your help
<mdke_> good luck!
<tuxedo_kamen> thanks :)
<tuxedo_kamen> oh, and I have some technical questions, but I'll ask them another day
<mdke_> ok
<gato2005_cl> nick
<gato2005_cl> |list
<gato2005_cl> !list
<Ubugtu> Admin, Bugzilla, Channel, Config, Misc, Owner, and User
<tuxedo_kamen> ?
<jamesh> lifeless: any chance to look at that merge problem with rocketfuel?
<lifeless> jamesh: currently looking at it.
<lifeless> (thats the bzr check running on chinstrap)
<jamesh> okay
<jamesh> thanks.
<lifeless> its merged fine in both directions
<lifeless> so I can offer a work around :
<lifeless> take a copy of devel
<lifeless> merge your branch into that
<lifeless> merge that into your branch
<jamesh> lifeless: it's a bit weird: the file that it claims is missing a revision didn't change according to the baz-1.x patch log
<tuxedo_kamen> o_O
<tuxedo_kamen> LOL
<lifeless> jamesh: right
<jamesh> I'll give that a go
<tuxedo_kamen> that sure is weird! :|
<lifeless> jamesh: I'm suspecting a bug in the conversion script or some such
<lifeless> btw you have sample data conflicts
<jamesh> lifeless: probably due to the switch to postgres 8.0
<tuxedo_kamen> hum... sorry to ask, but what are you talking about?
<jamesh> my branch has sample data changes, but I last updated it with pg 7.4
<jamesh> tuxedo_kamen: Launchpad code
<tuxedo_kamen> hum, ok
<tuxedo_kamen> hey, can you teach me how to use it better?
<jamesh> is there anything in particular you want to know?
<tuxedo_kamen> i already translated many things, but I am a newbie to the system itself
<tuxedo_kamen> hum...what is hackergotchi, ssh keys, gpg keys, code of conduct and packages?
<jamesh> tuxedo_kamen: a GPG key is an encryption key, so you can encrypt or sign things
<tuxedo_kamen> (the keys I know what they are, but what are they used for in the system?)
<jamesh> tuxedo_kamen: if you tell Launchpad about your key, you can use the bug tracker via email
<tuxedo_kamen> hum, ok
<tuxedo_kamen> what about hackergotchi, code of conduct and packages?
<lifeless> hackergotchi are cute photos
<lifeless> shown beside people in various places
<jamesh> the SSH keys are for a related system: the supermirror
<jamesh> which allows you to publish bazaar branches
<tuxedo_kamen> ok...
<tuxedo_kamen> so, in hackergotchi should I submit an image I like?
<jamesh> tuxedo_kamen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackergotchi has some details about the term
<tuxedo_kamen> hum, ok
<jamesh> tuxedo_kamen: the hackergotchi image gets displayed on your user page
<tuxedo_kamen> i think these are my last questions...
* jamesh still finds it amusing that wikipedia has a page about hackergotchis
<tuxedo_kamen> what else can i contribute, besides bugs and translations?
<tuxedo_kamen> :| anyone?
<jamesh> those are the main areas at the moment.
<tuxedo_kamen> hum... is there any way i can offer applications to use in ubuntu?
<jamesh> lifeless: I get the same error when trying to merge back into my branch
<jamesh> that is, merging the copy of rocketfuel merged with my branch
* tuxedo_kamen imagines what kind of things lie behind those strange words
<jamesh> tuxedo_kamen: teething pains after switching to a new revision control system
<lifeless> jamesh: funny, it worked for me
<jamesh> lifeless: could it be due to the previous failed merge?
<lifeless> jamesh: yes
<lifeless> do a reweave from your rocketfuel-that-merged-you . 
<lifeless> in your branch
<jamesh> lifeless: no difference
<lifeless> jamesh: weird
<lifeless> 30 minutes till check finishes
<lifeless> we'll see then
<tuxedo_kamen> i am getting lots of timeout errors
<spiv> lifeless: I wish there was an easy way to know in tearDown if the test failed, so that TwistdTestCase could know not to delete log files in that case.
<spiv> lifeless: Any other suggestions? :)
<jamesh> spiv: you could do it with a decorator on the test method ...
<spiv> Well, the easy workaround is to temporarily comment out those lines in tearDown ;)
<spiv> jamesh: I guess that wouldn't be too bad; if an error is raised it could copy the log file to something named after the test.
<lifeless> spiv: hmm
<lifeless> no, no errors are raised from run()
<lifeless> the only way to know that a test has failed from within the test is to supply your own run() method.
<lifeless> because you can fail in tearDown()
<lifeless> or you can fail in the test()
<lifeless> if you want a less generic solution...
<lifeless> then yes, a decorator around the test method can save the failure in the test object and you can look at that in tearDown().
<lifeless> what we do in bzr though is easier: we've taught our runner about log files. It copies them from the test when needed.
<lifeless> downlevel behaviour is simply to not copy them - easy as pie ;)
<spiv> Well, it's not enough of an irritation that I'm going to go out of my way to fix it if there's no simple, easy answer :)
<lifeless> ;)
<spiv> (Although, I know an easy answer for this in trial: pass self.mktemp() as the log file name, while will create it in _trial_temp/test-case-name/blah, or something like that)
<spiv> s/while/which/
<lifeless> yah, thats essentially what bzr's runner does
<lifeless> except it uses 'dependency injection' -> the containing suite sets the directory name.
<lifeless> erm, thats wrong. let me see
<lifeless> ah right
<lifeless> its a test case class variable
* lifeless should fix that
* tuxedo_kamen vai embora, at qualquer dia, gente!
<jamesh> lifeless: any luck with the "bzr check" run
<jamesh> ?
<SteveA> good morning
<SteveA> jamesh: nice work on the bzr ssh hacking
<jamesh> SteveA: I still find rsync more usable for moving branches around though ...
<lifeless> jamesh: well, I have some diags now, looking for the data ;0
<sivang> Morning all.
<SteveA> jamesh: how is the error reporting stuff looking?
<carlos> morning
<carlos> stub, hi, around?
<SteveA> morning carlos
<carlos> SteveA, morning
<carlos> SteveA, I have my branch ready except for a problem I having with the notification system
<carlos> SteveA, should I send you the diffs now or wait for the notification system?
<SteveA> this is your improvements on the branch i reviewed last week?
<carlos> SteveA, yes
<SteveA> let's see if stub can help you with the notification stuff first
<carlos> TranslationUploads
<carlos> ok
<jordi> yay carlos
<carlos> jordi, hi
<carlos> jordi, dude, I did a crazy thing... I asked for the Wanadoo 20Mb ADSL line...
<jordi> lol
<jordi> wanadoo is shit man
<jordi> what about the TV and stuff?
<carlos> jordi, I don't have the TV since last week, too much money
<carlos> jordi, I prefer 1Mb/20Mb link than 128Kbps/1Mb + TV
<jordi> nod
<jordi> I guess I'll wait a few months to see if Telefnica get a clue
<jordi> or move somewhere else as well
<jordi> carlos: won't you be left offline for a while?
<carlos> jordi, they said "1 month", I said "no way", they say "will try to get it in 1 week"
<stub> carlos: yo
<carlos> and I have my University connection as a backup
<carlos> jordi, so, I don't think it will be a problem
<carlos> stub, hi
<jordi> carlos: you're going to be fucked up
<carlos> stub, I'm not able to get the notifications with the API you gave me
<jordi> "we will try" means "shut up, we'll do whatever we want"
<carlos> stub, I don't get the notification messages
<carlos> jordi, I don't mind, I can ask for Ono in one week or just change provider and move back to Telefonica
<stub> Are you setting notifications before the current page has started rendering, or are you issuing a redirect after setting notifications?
<carlos> jordi, I don't need my phone number at all
<carlos> stub, no redirect
<jordi> nod
<carlos> about the rendering... I set them on submit 
<carlos> stub, should I "raise" it as part of the __init__ call?
<stub> carlos: I don't follow what you mean by 'set them on submit'
<carlos> I'm not using LaunchpadView there
<carlos> stub, as a call from the page template
<carlos> stub, <div metal:fill-slot="main">
<carlos>      <tal:dummy condition="view/submitForm" />
<stub> Likely by that time, the section of the page that displays the notifications has already been rendered. So you won't see them. So you need to set the notifications before then (such as __init__, or initialize() in LaunchpadView
<carlos> ok
<carlos> so I will move the submits to the __init__ class until we migrate those classes to use LaunchpadView
<stub> Generally the form would redirect on success (displaying the messages), or fail (displaying the errors next to the form controls)
<carlos> stub, ok
* carlos tries
<stub> I'd jump straight to LaunchpadView - it isn't particularly complicated code.
<carlos> stub, I used it already
<carlos> but I need this branch merged as soon as possible
<carlos> so I prefer to do it in a second review, if SteveA does not mind to do it that way...
<carlos> wow, POFileView's __init__ method is huge...
<stub> Can someone please try ' python test.py -f --test=person.txt' -- I'm getting failures in HEAD with freshly rebuild sample database
<stub> Looks like Karma - I suspect some of the sample data might have aged, causing the tests to fail?
<SteveA> carlos: if POFileView's __init__ is huge, that's all the more reason to move it to LaunchpadView soon.
<SteveA> having lots of work done in an __init__ is a problem in many different ways
<ddaa> SteveA: lifeless: meeting time?
<ddaa> mh... looks like niemeyer's not around.
<SteveA> ddaa: i'm on #c-m
<ddaa> lifeless: ^
<ddaa> so am I
<carlos> SteveA, I'm moving it to LaunchpadView already due other problems so it will be done now anyway...
<SteveA> ok
<lifeless> ddaa: I'm there now
<lifeless> SteveA: me too
<lifeless> sorry about not being there before, lynne rebooted my machine on the weekend :[
<carlos> SteveA, ok, I really don't understand this....
<carlos> SteveA, I'm adding import pdb; pdb.set_trace() to the __init__ method but it's not executed ever...
<carlos> how is that possible?
<carlos> the .zcml points to that class and it's not a new one
<SteveA> carlos: i'm in a meeting right now.  we can talk about this in 1 hr or so
<carlos> ok
<carlos> SteveA, ping me when you are ready. Thanks
<BjornT> stub: i'm getting a karma related error in person.txt as well. i guess the test doesn't account for karma decreasing by time.
<stub> BjornT: I've got a fix in pqm, with a test to stop this particular time bomb happening again.
<stub> BjornT: But your merge will fail
<BjornT> cool. i'll resubmit later, after i've merged in the fix then.
<stub> lifeless: Can I kill BjornT's PQM job if it is still in the setup-the-tree stage, and if so what do I need to do? Kill arch-pqm and remove the patch.xxx entry from ~pqm/arch/queue ?
<lifeless> stub: remove/move the patch.
<lifeless> then kill the pqm script (normal kill, NOT -9)
<lifeless> tail ~/arch/queue/arch-pqm/arch-pqm.log to see it start up again
<stub> lifeless: Now bitching about a lock file - nuke that too?
<lifeless> una momento
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> its failed to unlock for some bizarre reason
<lifeless> new-pqm has a nicer layout for these files btw.
<SteveA> spiv: ping
<matsubara> good morning!
<Kinnison> Morning matsubara 
<carlos> lifeless, hi
<carlos> lifeless, around?
<cprov> morning guys
<SteveA> hi daf
<daf> hello
<SteveA> how's it going?
<daf> not bad
<daf> what's cooking in Launchpad land?
<Kinnison> Hi daf
<daf> morning
<spiv> SteveA: pong
<spiv> daf: G'day!
<daf> hi spiv :)
<Kinnison> matsubara: is kiko around?
<spiv> daf: We're cooking with bzr instead of baz now, lots of exciting new quirks ;)
<daf> aha
<daf> same people to bother when it all goes wrong?
<spiv> Yep.
<spiv> Well, and mpool.
<spiv> It doesn't eat all my ram anymore, though :)
<lifeless> daf: hey!
<matsubara> Kinnison: I think he just arrived.
<carlos> daf, hey!!
<carlos> daf, welcome!
<kiko> hello Kinnison 
* lifeless hugs daf
<kiko> should we do a new publisher run?
<kiko> daf!
<kiko> DAF!
<daf> hi guys
<Kinnison> kiko: Yo
<Kinnison> kiko: done
<Kinnison> kiko: 6 minutes ago it finished
<kiko> Kinnison, you rock the boat
<kiko> do you know how to run the comparator?
<Kinnison> No
* kiko would like to ensure that the archives are totally in-sync but wth
<kiko> Kinnison, did you manage to fix any of the bugs I reported?
<Kinnison> Whatever asuka read from is in ~dsilvers/asuka-archive
* Kinnison rsyncs it
<Kinnison> kiko: I've not done any publisher updates yet
* Kinnison needs to switch context from ftpmaster tools
* Kinnison will do that today
<kiko> Kinnison, okay -- just so we can unblock the gina production run
* Kinnison nods kiko
* Kinnison appreciates the importance of this and is giving it his full attention today
<niemeyer> SteveA: I'm curious about the listiterator stuff..
<Kinnison> kiko: I'm just updating my publisher-fixes branch with latest rocketfuel
<niemeyer> Kinnison! kiko!
<Kinnison> Morning niemeyer 
<niemeyer> Good morning
<kiko> hello niemeyer 
<kiko> what's the story?
<niemeyer> kiko: iter(DatabaseClass.select()) returns a listiterator
<kiko> niemeyer, how spectacular
<kiko> niemeyer, when do you arrive?
<niemeyer> kiko: Which looks strange to me.. since it means it's building a list with everything in memory.
<niemeyer> kiko: My flight leaves at 12h25m and arrives in Ribeirao Preto at..
<niemeyer> 15h20m
<kiko> niemeyer, it indeed is a bit odd. I wonder if it's intentional though
<niemeyer> kiko: I've looked into the code and it's something about transactions vs. race conditions
<niemeyer> kiko: Haven't had time to really understand it though
<niemeyer> kiko: Nevertheless, it's still strange
<niemeyer> A few selects on the wrong thing and the system is gone
<spiv> niemeyer: Weird indeed.
<spiv> kiko: I don't think that would be intentional.
<spiv> It's because Transaction.iterSelect calls iter(list(...)) for some reason.
<spiv> Which seems dumb to me.
<kiko> so dumb it appears intentional, but..
<kiko> how does it look upstream?
* carlos workraves
* niemeyer leaves..
<niemeyer> kiko: See you soon
<salgado> stub, ping
<lifeless> carlos: pong
<Kinnison> stub: ping?
<stub> salgado: pong
<stub> Kinnison: pong
<Kinnison> stub: If a db is missing patches from the -25- range, how do I get upgrade.py to apply them?
<stub> Kinnison: You can manually apply them
<stub> psql -d launchpad_dogfood -U postgres << EOF
<stub>  \i patch-25-xx-0.sql
<stub> erm...
<Kinnison> stub: urgh
<stub> begin; \i patch-25-xx-0.sql; commit;
<Kinnison> stub: if I copy the patches into database/schema will upgrade.py cope?
* stub shrugs
* Kinnison grins
<Kinnison> ta
* Kinnison will try
<stub> kiko, Kinnison: I nuked the Gina records from staging earlier and am rerunning her now - I trashed some stuff from the librarian that shouldn't have been and I felt it best to start from a clean slate.
<Kinnison> stub: that'll explain why it's so damned tiny
<Kinnison> stub: okay, I'll stop doing publisher tests for now
<Kinnison> stub: eta on her?
* SteveA --> lunch
<kiko> Kinnison, you know, couple of days
<Kinnison> kiko: urgh
* Kinnison guesses he'll have lunch and then get on with other things
<Kinnison> ciau
<kiko> 2 days
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> sounds like the plan
* Kinnison --> lunch
<BjornT> jamesh: what's up with chinstrap/~jamesh/pending-reviews ?
<kiko> Kinnison, but did you do the publisher run successfully?
<salgado> stub, that shipit query still timing out: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file4RepdU.html
<salgado> stub, anything else we could do about it?
<stub> salgado: The query is wrong (should have picked it up during review). It should be SELECT COUNT(DISTINCT ShippingRequest.id) FROM ShippingRequest WHERE ShippingRequest.fti @@ ftq('kiko') OR recipient IN (SELECT Person.id FROM Person WHERE Person.fti @@ ftq('kiko') UNION SELECT EmailAddress.person FROM EmailAddress WHERE lower(EmailAddress.email) LIKE 'kiko%') AND ShippingRequest.cancelled = FALSE AND ShippingRequest.approved IS NULL;
<stub> ie. No needless JOIN with the person and emailaddress tables, making it return a few billion rows...
<salgado> ouch
* salgado fixes it
<kiko> stub, salgado's excuse is that he had never heard of the UNION statement before <wink>
<stub> kiko: He copied the UNION bit just fine ;)
<kiko> I'm being ironic; he wrote the UNION support for SQLObject
<stub> salgado: Where can I find that query again? I can patch that live
<salgado> stub, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileb08J5L.html
<stub> salgado: found it. I removed the clauseTables like and production will bounce in 10 mins. Please merge in a cherry pickable patch though.
<stub> salgado: I'll approve that patch
<salgado> sure. will do it.
<kiko> hey radix 
<radix> yo kiko
<kiko> what's the story
<radix> It's not written yet :)
<stub> salgado: Please try that shipit search again
<salgado> stub, working fine now. :)
<kiko> salgado, was that the only query that was timing out?
<salgado> kiko, well, that's the only query we have
<kiko> heh
<kiko> stub, salgado: wow, order of magnitude response improvement, you guys rock and roll
<salgado> thanks stub for that, it was he who suggested how to make it faster
<kiko> hey carlos!
<carlos> kiko, hi
<kiko> how's it going?
<carlos> kiko, fine, thanks
<carlos> kiko, and you?
<kiko> pretty good, not amazingly busy as usual
<kiko> which is a relief
<kiko> carlos, tell me about POMsgSetView?
<carlos> kiko, what do you want to know?
<kiko> its status, for starters :)
<carlos> kiko, not started yet
<carlos> I'm with a big change atm
<carlos> TranslationUploads
* carlos hates the migrations...
<carlos> the postgresql migration broke my sampledata!!!!
<kiko> yeah 
<kiko> in a way it would be a way to solve bug 80
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #80: cannot see who put in bad translation Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Matthew Paul Thomas, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/80
<Kinnison> kiko: no, because I re-ran it after stub had cleaned it out
<carlos> kiko, feel free to start with it
<Kinnison> kiko: thusly there's bugger-all present
<carlos> kiko, anyway, I prefer if translationUploads is done before that as it has many changes 
<kiko> yeah, sure.
<kiko> Kinnison, argh. okay.
<kiko> carlos, also note that bug 5103 is in line with some of our top complaints. I can try looking at the SQL we're generating and seeing if stub has any suggestions.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5103: Can't translate nautilus for Dapper Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5103
<kiko> or perhaps..
<kiko> salgado, would you have time to performance debug a rosetta page?
<salgado> kiko, yes, I think I can have a look this afternoon
<kiko> salgado-lunch, that would be awesome
<kiko> salgado-lunch, just getting us information on how many/which queries are being run would be very useful
<carlos> kiko, I think it's a performance error so yes, if you could try to detect where the problem is would be really good.
<kiko> carlos, I'll ask salgado to look at that page and at the other rosetta page which is timing out the most ()https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/fr/+index
<bradb> hm, it appears that my merge request disappeared
<bradb> pqm++ # die
<carlos> kiko, that other page will need some cache action or change it a bit
<carlos> kiko, to fix the timeout problems.
<kiko> carlos, well, we'll see about that
<radix> man, you launchpad guys are hard to get ahold of :)
<radix> or maybe my privmsgs are disabled :(
<radix> SteveA: you're not around, are you?
<radix> hopefully more cylindrical, I guess
<carlos> radix, feel free to ask here, perhaps any other developer can answer your question....
<carlos> ok, so I'm fucked with sampledata...
<kiko> carlos, maybe start from zero? 
<carlos> kiko, dude, it's a branch that is more than one month old
<carlos> kiko, I don't remember exactly all changes I did there
<kiko> carlos, suggestion: generate a diff of the sampledata that you had back then, and try reissuing the SQL in today's model
* carlos tries to manually merge but still thinks this sucks...
<kiko> carlos, use baz for a bit
<carlos> kiko, I think our policy should have that every time you add a new db patch you must update the sampledata
<kiko> carlos, that would make for even more conflicts, wouldn't it?
<carlos> that way other sampledata updates will not be touching other unrelated tables ....
<carlos> kiko, not really
<carlos> if you add a new field for say... 'POTemplate'
<carlos> you add that new field and the sampledata gets it
<carlos> so if tomorrow, salgado adds a new field to the Person table
<carlos> he will not get also the updates to POTemplate
<carlos> and his patch will be related *only* to what he changed
* radix makes french toast for breakfast
<kiko> carlos, oh. so you're proposing making sampledata changes /in database patches/?
<carlos> kiko, no
<carlos> kiko, when you merge your database patch
<carlos> you must merge too a sampledata update
<carlos> if that database patch changes anything that appears as part of the sampledata
<carlos> for instance, constraints usually doesn't change the sampledata
<carlos> but add/remove fields does
<SteveA> hi radix 
<SteveA> i was having lunch
<bradb> lifeless: Do you use Malone to track pqm bugs, or something else?
<radix> SteveA: and me breakfast :)
<stub> If you can ever merge sampledata, consider youself lucky. Sample data changes should always be maintained as a seperate .sql file that you can replay as necessary, because it will never merge well.
<kiko> is stub's policy actually stated anywhere perennial, though? SteveA?
<SteveA> it should be stated in the sample data itself, with a pointer to it from the hacking faq
<carlos> it merges well if noone else is changing those tables, that was the point behind the SQL sort script ....
<SteveA> radix: when do you want to have a phone conversation?
<radix> SteveA: I'm available right now
<SteveA> radix: shall we say at half past?
<SteveA> radix: i'll call you
<radix> SteveA: yep that's good
<bradb> lifeless: To my eyes, it looks like the bzr submit script is submitted bad merge requests (missing a /, if you look at the pqm queue.) Sanity check: sed -e 's|^\(.*\):/|sftp://\1|g' should be sed -e 's|^\(.*\):/|sftp://\1/|g', right?
<bradb> s/submitted/submitting/
<stub>  If you can ever merge sampledata, consider youself lucky. Sample data changes should always be maintained as a seperate .sql file that you can replay as necessary, because it will never merge well.
<carlos> it merges well if noone else is changing those tables, that was the point behind the SQL sort script ....
<kiko> <kiko> is stub's policy actually stated anywhere perennial, though? SteveA?
<kiko> <SteveA> it should be stated in the sample data itself, with a pointer to it from the hacking faq
<stub> carlos: The SQL sort script makes it more likely - it doesn't promise anything because it can't
<carlos> stub, the problem I have atm is that both sampledatas seem to be completely different
<salgado> carlos, are you using postgres 8?
<carlos> salgado, yes
<salgado> IIRC, jamesh said once that the sampledata generated by postgres 8 was in a completely different order than the one we have now
<carlos> salgado, I know, that's why I regenerated the sampledata again from both branches and tried again without many luck
<stub> kiko: I think I'm going to have to kill the gina run, nuke the librarian, and restart. The LibrarianGarbageCollection script which is running looks like it will take over 5 days for the initial run (!), because there are half a million records to remove carefully.
<carlos> wow
<stub> And there won't be enough space to complete the run otherwise
<kiko> stub, sore, that's fine
<kiko> sore but sure
<stub> DELETE FROM LibraryFileAlias WHERE id = 1 takes just under 1 second, and deleting multiple records per statement doesn't decrease overall time
* carlos workraves
* bradb looks at the pqm queue, wondering how it's possible that the merge requests aren't immediately failing, given that they're missing a slash, i.e. "sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.comhome/..."
<stub> salgado: There is a missing '/' in your bzr-submit-merge script. The version on the wiki has been updated.
<salgado> stub, I've noticed it and fixed the script already. thanks for pointing out
<stub> bradb: Looks like the dud requests were causing the merge script to crash - blocked totally :-/
<bradb> Death, taxes, and pqm pain.
<Kinnison> stub: 15:48:48 WARNING Bad object name 'public.plpgsql_validator(oid)'
<Kinnison> stub: I get that running security.py on dogfood
<Kinnison> stub: any clues?
* carlos gets it too
<carlos> it hapens since postgres 8.0 migration 
<stub> Kinnison: It is because the dogfood database is still 7.4 - ignore it
<stub> carlos: If you see that exact error message, you are still connecting to the 7.4 database
<carlos> stub, it's a bit difficult....
<carlos> stub, I purged it from my laptop
<carlos> carlos@aragorn:~$ ls /usr/lib/postgresql/
<carlos> 8.0
<Kinnison> stub: ta
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> stub, seemd like I don't get that error now.. could be that I had an old launchpad code base?
<stub> carlos: I expect you were getting a similar error message, but not that exact one.
<carlos> stub, well, i thought it was exactly the same...
<carlos> but now that you say it's not possible, I'm not so sure....
<stub> If you were running 8.0, you used to get a 'No permissions specified for public.plpgsql_validator(oid)'. But that was fixed (causing the current warning if you are running against 7.4)
<carlos> ok
* carlos needs to go offline for some hours
<carlos> will be available on my mobile phone
<carlos> later
<kiko> stub, should we encode best practices for working with sampledata?
<kiko> it's been the subject of pain lately
<BjornT> kiko: do you have time to review an 80-line diff (mostly doctests)?
<kiko> yes
<kiko> right now
<BjornT> cool, i'll send it to you
<bradb> stub: Maintainership is empty on production, right?
<kiko> it should better well be
<kiko> cprov, assigned a trivialish bug to you, check it out later
<cprov> kiko: sure
* bradb remembers the Maintainership demolition at UBZ, but just wanted to be sure
<kiko> cprov, shouldn't bug 4796 be assigned to mpt?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4796: Create a fmt:icon for Build Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4796
<kiko> and bug 3839?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3839: New icons required Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Matthew Paul Thomas, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3839
<cprov> kiko: I'm checking
<cprov> kiko: 4796 is pretty trivial, I've planned to fix it today, but if you think it's worth i can assign to mpt; it's up to you .  
<kiko> cprov, well, I only thought that working on an icon wasn't going to be the best use of your time. what do you think?
<kiko> matsubara, have you considered when you would be starting on bug 3322, or should I assign it to bradb/bjornt?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3322: It should be possible to indicate a binary package when filing a bug Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3322
<cprov> kiko: you're right, but the bug itself does not involves icon design, only a clearer adapter rather than a context method, it's code, not icon at all
<kiko> cprov, oh. 
<cprov> kiko: yep, more one adapter class in webapp/tales.py like BugTaskFormatterAPI, so straightforward like that
* cprov is having a hell day with messy failures in lp test suite.
<matsubara> kiko: if you can re-assign it to one of them, I would be glad, I'm kinda busy here.
<matsubara> kiko: btw, if you want to test the 4852 fix just http://walrus:8086
<cprov> kiko: btw, work on 4810 today isn't a good idea, see 3530, jamesh's bugzilla-import branch (under review) changes it, what do you think ?
<kiko> cprov, oh, I'm not suggesting doing it today,no
<cprov> kiko: then perfect, I'll keep it on top of my TODO list.
<fevoldj2> Hello, I am having trouble filing a bug report. I get a page not found error.
<stub> bradb: yes
<bradb> ok, thanks
<bradb> fevoldj2: What URL are you using?
<fevoldj2> I'm at launchpad.net
<fevoldj2> I clicked bugs and then open a new report
<fevoldj2> open a new bug*
<stub> kiko: yes
<kiko> stub, do you want to cook up a suggestion? I think you're the best person to do so. If you send something to launchpad I can take care of encoding it in the wiki
<bradb> fevoldj2: What is the URL of the bug filing page on which you get the 404?
<fevoldj2> https://launchpad.net/people/fevoldj2/+filebug
<bradb> fevoldj2: You typed that URL in manually, presumably?
<fevoldj2> No I cliked a link
<bradb> fevoldj2: What is the URL of the page from which you clicked the link? (Sorry, just trying to follow the exact same path as you here.)
<Kinnison> ddaa: Whatever you did to Archive/Branch etc, you've broken trebuchet
<Kinnison> ddaa: Just thought you'd like to know
<fevoldj2> https://launchpad.net/
<fevoldj2> Then I clicked bugs
<ddaa> Kinnison: that's a well known fact.
<fevoldj2> https://launchpad.net/malone
<ddaa> Kinnison: they'll be a hct meeting wednesday about fixing that and other issues.
<fevoldj2> Oh I see
<Kinnison> ddaa: cool
<fevoldj2> There's something wrong with the user home pages
<ddaa> Kinnison: btw, you should try my much improved bzrk.
<fevoldj2> If i follow the link on the home page, it works fine.
<Kinnison> ddaa: Remind me of the branch url?
<Kinnison> stub: ping?
<ddaa> Kinnison: it boasts ignore of redundant parents (fixes the problem with my branch), improved collating of related revisions, and more accurate colour group.
<bradb> fevoldj2: I'm still unable to find the link you clicked to get to /people/fevoldj2/+filebug, unfortunately
<fevoldj2> I just signed up, I clicked the verification link and then I saw I could open a new bug.
<ddaa> All in a pretty ugly slab of a code. I'll need to factor it out into a class. http://ddaa.net/bazaar/bzrk
<fevoldj2> I can attempt to find a way to the page if you want
<bradb> fevoldj2: Ah, after signup...interesting.
<fevoldj2> Yeah
<stub> kiko: Yes - I'll start knocking something up tomorrow
<bradb> fevoldj2: If you can find a clickable link that goes to /people/fevoldj2/+filebug, I'd be very interested to know the URL. Otherwise, I'll see if I can reproduce the problem locally doing a signup.
<Kinnison> stub: librarian-gc cronscript errors out when run on dogfood
<Kinnison> stub: did you forget to update the dogfood config?
<fevoldj2> I'll look
<Kinnison> ddaa: looks much better, thanks
<fevoldj2> Well if you click your username next to the logout button, it takes you to the user page.
<ddaa> Spent my week-end on it, but I'm pretty proud of it :)
<fevoldj2> Then click bugs
<fevoldj2> Then there is a link to open a new bug.
<Kinnison> ddaa: You had a much more productive weekend than me then
* Kinnison spent his time trying to find a backup tool for backing up to DVD
* Kinnison failed in the end :-(
<bradb> fevoldj2: There is? I don't see it.
<fevoldj2> Really?
<bradb> fevoldj2: What is the textual name of the link in that page?
<fevoldj2> Look near the top right
<fevoldj2> Next to logout you should see your username
<fevoldj2> Click it
* bradb cliks
<bradb> and clicks
<fevoldj2> You dont' see it?
<kiko> matsubara, the patch for tabindexing comments looks okay. if you could get spiv to test it first it would be nice (ask him to review it?)
<bradb> fevoldj2: Nope.
<salgado> fevoldj2, he doesn't see because that link is shown only if there's no bugs assigned to you
<fevoldj2> oh
<fevoldj2> Well that's why :p
<salgado> fevoldj2, bradb, https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/4442
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4442: https://launchpad.net/people/xeon/+filebug -- File not found Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Guilherme Salgado, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4442
<bradb> Ah.
<Kinnison> stub: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileCnnzmM.html
<mdke> how can you quote previous comments when making a comment of your own in malone?
<salgado> SteveA, around?
<salgado> BjornT, ping
<BjornT> hi salgado 
<salgado> hi BjornT
<kiko> mdke, via email? :)
<salgado> BjornT, I have a security proxied StringIO object, but apparently zope doesn't have an interface for that. where should I define it, in case there isn't one that I can just hook on zcml?
<mdke> kiko, not from the interface, except by doing it manually?
<kiko> mdke, that is the case. I was the one who wrote the original "reply" patch to Bugzilla, and I didn't get a lot of love for it..
<mdke> kiko, hmm. So if I give you love, you'll incorporate a quote button in the malone GUI?
<mdke> what sort of love is required?
<stub> Kinnison: Fixed in my branch
<Kinnison> stub: Feh, I'll wait for you to pqm it
<BjornT> salgado: you don't need an interface, you can simply use attributes="..." instead of interface="..."
<kiko> mdke, I guess I could port it over, but I'd need mpt to okay it. Is the email interface too cumbersome, or is this for bugs you don' thave in email form?
<salgado> BjornT, right. I was thinking that there could be an interface for file-like objects that I could use...
<kiko> thanks stub 
<mdke> kiko, i'm not used to using email for bugs yet, and yeah, when I want to comment on bugs that don't come to me by email
<salgado> BjornT, anyway, do we have any place to write zcml for things from the standard library or should it be in launchpad/zcml/something.zcml?
<BjornT> salgado: hmm, i'm not sure. ask SteveA about it.
<Kinnison> stub: any idea when you'll be trying to land it?
<kiko> mdke, try convincing mpt during this week, when he is back in office!
<stub> Kinnison: its with pqm (that patch might have already landed - no sure)
<kiko> Kinnison, stub landing what?
<Kinnison> stub: hmm
<SteveA> hi salgado.  i'll be around in a short while.
<Kinnison> stub: "LibrarianGarbageCollection fixes for staging"?
<stub> Kinnison: Yup
<Kinnison> that's nr 5
* Kinnison may as well go shopping :-)
<stub> Kinnison: Or just merge that branch into yours
* stub goes to bed
<mdke> kiko, ok, perhaps I'll file a bug and assign it to him
<mdke> is there currently, or will there be in the future, a tool for testing the validity of po files in rosetta? e.g. if the string contains %d but the translation uses %s, does rosetta tell the translator about it?
<kiko> mdke, that's validation. I believe there is something done, but I don't know whether your example is catered for. carlos is the person to ask
<kiko> Kinnison, jamesh, lifeless: is supporting V3 RSA keys out of the question, very difficult, etc?
<Kinnison> kiko: Well, we can't just accept fingerprint
<Kinnison> kiko: since the keyid isn't in the fingerprint in v3 keys
<mdke> jordi, any idea about that question ^^?
<kiko> Kinnison, so we'd need to have a field for fingerprint and another for keyid? agh.
<salgado> elmo, around?
<Kinnison> kiko: essentially, yes
<kiko> Kinnison, if we did that, would it be difficult to do the actual processing?
<cprov> kiko: Kinnison: or a check box for v3 keys ?
<Kinnison> kiko: Erm, given we keep keyid and fingerprint separate in gpgkey, I don't think it'd be too hard
<Kinnison> kiko: just gotta add the v3 key types to the dbschemas
<cprov> Kinnison: does the keyserver supports both types ?
<Kinnison> cprov: the keyserver is a proper one, so it should
<Kinnison> cprov: and zeca looks easy to fix if it doesn't cope
<kiko> Kinnison: could you add your evaluation to bug 4746? I could do it but I hate to sound like a proxy for you here given you understand the issue much better than I do
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4746: Launchpad does not accept older GPG fingerprint formats Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4746
<cprov> Kinnison: good, is there any restriction about v3 keys ? can they sign/encrypt properly ? can we use gpgme ? 
<Kinnison> cprov: they should be fine
<cprov> Kinnison: ok, thanks for the explanation
* Kinnison -> shopping, back later
<SteveA> salgado: ping
<salgado> hi SteveA 
<SteveA> you were asking about the StringIO ?
<SteveA> and its security declarations?
<salgado> yep
<SteveA> this should actually go upstream, in Zope 3
<salgado> right. is there an existing interface for file-like objects or should I write a new one?
<SteveA> best thing to do (long term) is file a bug, assign to stub or spiv, that upstream Zope 3 should have security declarations for a StringIO
<SteveA> unless you have commit rights to Zope 3
<SteveA> ?
<salgado> I don't think I have
<SteveA> does this block you from doing stuff?
<SteveA> i mean, not having this for launchpad now?
<salgado> yes, it does. AFAIK, I have to seek to the beginning of the file befor uploading it to librarian
<salgado> and right now, I can't seek
<SteveA> you don't need to declare the interface for this.  just make zope.Public its non-mutating attributes
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> so, file a bug, and add zcml for this in launchpad/webapp/bug-1234.zcml  and include that from launchpad/webapp/configure.zcml
<SteveA> one of the zope3 committers can remove that zcml file when this is fixed in zope3 and we have that version in RF
<salgado> I tried doing this, but had problems because cStringIO.StringIO is actually a function (I didn't know that), and in my case, what I have in hand is a cStringIO.StringO object
<SteveA> problems doing what?
<salgado> <content class="StringIO.StringIO">
<salgado>         <allow attributes="seek read readlines readline write writeline
<salgado>                            writelines getvalue" />
<SteveA> ah, right
<salgado> class="cStringIO.StringIO", in fact
<SteveA> >>> type(cStringIO.StringIO())
<SteveA> <type 'cStringIO.StringO'>
<SteveA> cStringIO.OutputType
<SteveA> that's what you want
<SteveA> and, it looks like a bug in python
<salgado> duh!. how dumb I am. I looked at the modules contents but didn't realize that's what I wanted
<SteveA> bug in python
<SteveA> there is another way to register security stuff, for when the type is not available from a dotted name
<SteveA> but that's not using zcml, and i'd have to look it up
<salgado> SteveA, the bug is that type(cStringIO.StringIO()) should actually be <type 'cStringIO.OutputType'>?
<kiko-afk> file a bug on python
<SteveA> the bug is that type(cStringIO.StringIO()).__name__ is not present in its __module__
<SteveA> that can be fixed in a number of ways
<Kawer> I've just got this live cd and install cd from one of my friends that order it on your page, but i'm using a mac computer current... Isn't it possible to run live cd's from mac's ?
<kiko-afk> Kawer, it is, but you need a mac-specific (powerpc) CD
<Kawer> don't know what that is :/
<kiko-afk> a different type of CD, basically
<Kawer> that i can order on your page ?
<Kawer> oh
<Kawer> i can
<bradb> kiko-afk: I'm pretty sure stub's mention of LaunchpadTestRequest/Response is to do with making sure we have a test request that works with the new self.request.response.addNotification stuff. Currently, when view code that uses this is tested, the tests break because they use TestRequest, which does not support notifications.
<bradb> bug 4898
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4898: Browser notifications machinery breaks in test code Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Stuart Bishop, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4898
<Kawer> Is it free to order ubuntu cd's ?
<Kawer> from the shipit site
<salgado> Kawer, yes, it is
<Kawer> oh thats nice
<kiko-afk> thanks bradb for dealing with the bug I posted, you rock
<kiko-afk> bradb, ah, I see.
<bradb> np
<kiko-afk> and /afk now for real for 20m
<Kawer> salgado: how long time will it take before they are at my door ?
<Kawer> (im from denmark)
<salgado> Kawer, usually it takes between 4 and 6 weeks
<Kawer> okay :)
<jordi> mdke: if you do that, AFAIK rosetta does not accept your translation
<mdke> jordi, ah cool
<salgado> SteveA, you said you'd like to talk about the ProperSignUpWorkflow spec. should we schedule some time for us to talk about it?
<jbailey> bradb: =) (re: 3529)
<Kawer> doesn't ubuntu live cd autoconfig wireless networks ? or do i have to do it myself?
<mdke> Kawer, #ubuntu
<Alinux> hello :) I'm searching for Martin Pitt :) 
<jblack> You're looking for mpitt then. Its a little late in the day for him though.
<sivang> Alinux: and he usually hangs around #ubuntu-devel
<Alinux> thank you guyes!
<Alinux> :)
<sivang> Alinux: ping him on #ubuntu-devel, his nick is pitti
<jblack> That's right. Its pitti
<Alinux> ;)
<sivang> jblack: Hey James :)
<jblack> sivang: Hi!
<jblack> How are things?
<sivang> jblack: pretty good apart from being a bit busy at dayjob, other then that I seem to be like the way you resolve conflicts in bzr, although I've been using it for a small project (command-not-found-magic)
<jblack> Definitely cool. Did you get it up on the bzr page? We list projects using bzr.
<lifeless> bradb: malone, pqm product
<sivang> jblack: I will do that, do we do that on supermirror ?
<jblack> The sm isn't doing bzr quite yet. Jan 31 is the deadline
<jblack> deadline is the wrong word. Target.
<lifeless> liveline ?
<jblack> loveline?
<sivang> jblack: deadlines sound negative, target is nicer :)
<sivang> jblack: or fatal :)
<jblack> Hmm
<lifeless> so jblack up for some pair programming 
<lifeless> ?
<jblack> Tonight? 
<jblack> Or now?
<lifeless> either is good
<lifeless> (for me)
<jblack> Yeah. I'd like to pair up again, but would prefer our customary time.
<lifeless> in 4.4 hours ?
<lifeless> (4 hours 20 minutes I mean(
<lifeless> spiv: ping
<jblack> Yeah. 4.333333 hours.
<lifeless> elmo: ping
<lifeless> works for me
<bradb> Seveas: If you're interested, you can use links like http://launchpad.net/bugs/42 for the bot too.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #42: Bug description listed in task is not the correct description Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/42
<Seveas> bradb, as you see, the bug takes it already :)
<Seveas> s/bug/bugbot/
<bradb> "Fix req. for" could be just "In:" as well
<Seveas> hmm, good one
<Seveas> !reload bugzilla
<Ubugtu> Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
<Seveas> bug 1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share In: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1
<bradb> Seveas: Cool. The only reason I suggested the .../bugs/... URL as well was to further shorten the output.
<Seveas> ah right, now i see
<Seveas> scrap the malone part
<bradb> yeah
<Seveas> that means adding something new to the snarfer too
<Seveas> http://launchad.net/bugs/1
<Seveas> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share In: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1
<Seveas> ah nice
<Seveas> !reload bugzilla
<Ubugtu> The operation succeeded.
<Seveas> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share In: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1
<Seveas> what the...
<bradb> heh
<sivang> Seveas: wtf re: the accepted?
<sivang> :)
<Seveas> the stupid plugin is filled with code duplication
<Seveas> I really should finish the rewrite which is much cleaner
<Seveas> !reload bugzilla
<Ubugtu> Error: invalid syntax (Bugzilla.py, line 436)
<Seveas> !reload bugzilla
<Ubugtu> Error: There was no plugin bugzilla.
<Seveas> !load bugzilla
<Ubugtu> The operation succeeded.
<Seveas> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #1: Microsoft has a majority market share In: Ubuntu, Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Mark Shuttleworth, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Seveas> there :)
<Seveas> And now I will stop spamming #launchpad :)
<bradb> lifeless: I opened bug 5140, but it doesn't look like the maintainership information (i.e. the "owner) is correctly established for pqm.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5140: Merge emails blow my mind In: pqm (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/5140
<bradb> Seveas: Oh, btw, cool, thanks for shortening that. :)
<bradb> We can get it shorter yet, I think, but one step at a time.
<lifeless> bah
<lifeless> someone smashed it
<lifeless> which was extremely naughty
<lifeless> I'll bet it was a not-completely-thought-through script to update stuff added as part of the imports to be a specific group.
<lifeless> fixed
<lifeless> bradb: short answer - no.
<bradb> lifeless: no? no to what?
<lifeless> long answer: This is not pqm, its the bzr email sender plugin; The email is not sent on *your behalf*, its sent when the repository changes - its not a personal notification.
<bradb> Oh, it's bzr.
* bradb would never have guessed
<bradb> lifeless: To what question are you answering "no"?
<lifeless> the request to reduce the output to just the summary line
* bradb wouldn't want that
<lifeless> I do plan to remove the file ids, but not the list of changed files
<bradb> Summary message and diff would be very useful though.
<bradb> and list of changed files would be good, yeah
<lifeless> list of changed files is already there
<bradb> I consider that part of the diff output though, maybe incorrectly
<lifeless> diff isn't.
<lifeless> I'm not convinced about the diff at this point
<bradb> the list says: lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/emailinterface.txt x_Bjorn_Tillenius_<bjorn.tillenius@canonical.com>_Wed_Mar_30_10:52:42_2005_7337.0
<lifeless> file name, file id
<bradb> when lib/canonical/launchpad/doc/emailinterface.txt would be much more useful
<lifeless> 08:24 < lifeless> I do plan to remove the file ids, but not the list of changed files
<bradb> that would be a nice step in the right direction, IMHO
<lifeless> well as I've said its planned
<lifeless> patches accepted to my email_sender plugin at any poitn
<lifeless> the thing is it has to serve *everyone at once* - its not a personal notification
<bradb> Right now, it doesn't seem to be serving the LP developer. Maybe I'm alone in this view, but I doubt it. :)
<lifeless> stub has a list of things requested w.r.t. bzr on the wiki
<lifeless> the file ids is in that list.
<lifeless> bradb: re submit-bzr-merge, stub updated the wiki copy
<bradb> yep
<mhz_design> hi
<mhz_design> I have created a team for 1st time and I made a mistake due to the explanatory text on Name field. However, I managed to edit it and it was ok. However, I got email confiormation for both 'naming' and 'name change'.
<mhz_design> should confirm both?
<mhz_design> wont that be confflicitve?
<kiko> I didn't quite understand
<mhz_design> kiko: ok. I created a team
<kiko> so far so good
<mhz_design> I missnamed it
<mhz_design> I changed its name
<kiko> okay
<mhz_design> when I got to check my inbox, I saw 2 emails from LP requesting me to confirm both steps
<kiko> the old team won't exist, most likely
<kiko> have you visited its page
<kiko> ?
<mhz_design> yup
<mhz_design> the new name is ok, so instead of confirming 1st email, I only tried the 2nd email
<mhz_design> and I got ooops error
<mhz_design> :)
<bradb> Anyone know who svaksha is?
<bradb> https://launchpad.net/people/sitsofe # heh, yay personalized homepages!
<mhz_design> kiko: so, no matter which of the 2 mails LP sent me for confirmation (1st name or 2nd), I still get same error
<bradb> aka, ad hoc BTS's!
<mhz_design> kiko: did you understand that?
<mhz_design> kiko: hmm, any ideas would be great. I have 3 people waiting to join those teams
<kiko> oh, mhz_design -- you get an error?
<kiko> bradb, can you help mhz_design I'm in a meeting atm
<mhz_design> kiko: ok, thx
<kiko> sorry for being busy
<bradb> kiko, mhz_design: Sure, I can try. /me reads scrollback
<mhz_design> bradb: educool
<mhz_design> kiko: no sorry, no worries
<bradb> Hm, something doesn't seem right here.
<bradb> It makes no sense whatsoever to get an email requesting a name change made in the web UI.
<mhz_design> exactly
<bradb> mhz_design: Can you forward me the email for the team you want to create?
<mhz_design> bradb: you stole my thoughts :D
<mhz_design> sure
<bradb> brad.bollenbach@gmail.com
* mhz_design reading inbox
<mhz_design> bradb: my mistake. Second email was to confirm 2nd group I created. Still got same errors when trying to get to confirm it
<mhz_design> bradb: mails sent
<bradb> mhz_design: Right, I see the error. I'm trying to get to the error log now, one sec...
<mhz_design> bradb: /me on the phone BRB
#launchpad 2005-12-04
<bradb> mhz_design: ping me when you're ready to continue
<mhz_design> bradb: i'm back but wife is calling me now :(
<bradb> mhz_design: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-chile/+editemail
<bradb> I was going to ask you to try reconfirming it
<bradb> To see if that helps
<mhz_design> bradb: will you be around in 45?
<bradb> probably not
* mhz_design loking
<mhz_design> bradb: I can loggin
<mhz_design> I am asked to use the same email address or other.
<mhz_design> bradb: which?
<bradb> mhz_design: log in as your normal user
<bradb> mhz.chile@gmail.com, if I'm not mistaken
<mhz_design> bradb: I am logged in
* mhz_design confirming
<mhz_design> An e-mail message was sent to 'mhz.chile@gmail.com'. Follow the instructions in that message to confirm the new contact address for this team.
<bradb> yep
<mhz_design> ok, bradb thx
<bradb> did confirming work though?
<mhz_design> not gotten any email yet
<bradb> it might take a min or two
<mhz_design> my wife will kick my butt
* mhz_design BBS
<bradb> ok :)
<kjcole> Hullo.  Any thoughts about deleting/undoing mistakes at launchpad.net?  I'm creating small bits of clutter on my way to understanding how things work.
<bradb> kjcole: Sorry, Launchpad isn't very good at dealing with user mistakes yet. Don't stress too much about messing things up. When things get mucked up a bit because a new user was playing around and didn't have an undo facility, that's our fault, not theirs.
<kjcole> bradb: Thanks. In that case, I'll be slightly less cautious, as I attempt to learn the brave new world (for me) of RCS by jumping right into bzr. ;-)
<bradb> kjcole: have fun :)
<mhz_dinner> bradb:  Oops
<mhz_dinner> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad. 
<mhz_dinner> .9
<mhz_dinner> :(
<mhz_dinner> bradb: obviously, I got email, I visited url, I pressed ok, but error :(
<bradb> mhz_dinner: Is there another contact email address you can try to confirm with?
<mhz_dinner> bradb: yup mhz@tecnocimiento.cl
<mhz_dinner> bradb: could it be that I am aproved ubuntu memeber but not updated yet ?
<bradb> mhz_dinner: I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
<bradb> mhz_dinner: Can you try that other address?
<mhz_dinner> re
<carlos> morning
<sivang> morning
<SteveA> hi
* carlos workraves
<carlos> SteveA, hi
<carlos> jordi, ping
<jordi> hey
<jordi> carlos: I was about to ping you
<jordi> I need the GNU team now
<jordi> mailman has accepted
<carlos> jordi, ok
<carlos> jordi, I'm reading all pending emails from rosetta-users
<carlos> and I think you missed "Translation of Django web framework"
<carlos> jordi, at least I don't see any answer to that email
<jordi> hmm
<carlos> would you take a look, please?
* carlos goes and creates the GNU team
<carlos> in exchange ;-)
<jordi> yes
<jordi> carlos: should we create a GNU team and a TP team?
<jordi> there's a difference
<jordi> GNU team would be people with translation disclaimers
<carlos> thank you
<carlos> hmmm
<jordi> TP team would be people doing non-GNU translations in the TP
<jordi> we don't need the TP team now
<jordi> but we want to make this clear in the team description
<carlos> it's the same team
<jordi> no
<carlos> but with different status, right?
<jordi> people without translation disclaimers in the FSF should not be allowed to translate mailman
<jordi> oh, yes.
<jordi> but we can't have statuses in Rosetta, right?
<carlos> we don't support that difference, so perhaps the non-GNU translators should just joing Ubuntu's teams?
<carlos> is more or less the same..
<jordi> django, I had this message flagged, but unanswered due to the policy thing (which I wanted to finish writing now)
<ajmitch_> evening
<carlos> jordi, I need a name (used for the URL), title, and a summary
<carlos> jordi, oh, I thought you already started the rejection/acceptance of the imports using the new policy
<carlos> ok
<carlos> ajmitch_, morning ;-)
<jordi> carlos: I don't think so, because they are already established teams as GNOME or Debian
<carlos> ok
<jordi> ajmitch_: Iiiii waaaant a paackaaaageeee!!
<ajmitch_> jordi: dude, check experimental
<carlos> jordi, give me the information and you will have your team! :-P
<ajmitch_> jordi: I just had to pull patches from CVS to get it building again
<jordi> carlos: no, not yet, didn't finish it last week, went out for the weekend and didn't work yesterday
<jordi> so today was The Day
<jordi> ajmitch_: woops :)
<carlos> jordi, ok
<carlos> jordi, btw, I will be on holidays next week so please, prepare a list of things you need done as soon as possible from my side because I don't think I will have Internet access
<carlos> jordi, anyway, I will send an email today to warthogs mailing list to notify that
<carlos> jordi, I'm already handling the plural form requests
<jordi> carlos: GNU Translators, gnu-translators, "The GNU translators are in charge of localising the official GNU projects. GNU translators need to send a signed Translation Disclaimer on paper to the FSF, for copyright reasons, before they can translate."
<jordi> carlos: great
<jordi> maybe translation Disclaimer can have a link to the place
<carlos> jordi, sure, URL?
<jordi> http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/translation/HTML/disclaim.html
<carlos> thanks
<carlos> hmm 
<carlos> jordi, seems like I'm not able to add a link...
<carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/gnu-translators/
<SteveA> carlos: got any review for me to do?
<carlos> SteveA, near there, I fixed all issues I got yesterday
<carlos> fixing tests
<carlos> well... running tests
<carlos> ;-)
<carlos> SteveA, btw, is the karma test fixed on rocketfuel?
<jordi> carlos: file a bug :)
<sivang> I am wondering, is the Karma on launchpad supposed to dwindle as time passes?
<ajmitch_> yes
<BjornT> carlos: stub fixed the karma test yesterday
<carlos> BjornT, ok, thanks
<carlos> jordi, which kind of permissions should mailman have?
<carlos> Structured or Closed?
<carlos> I guess Closed, right?
<jordi> nuclear safe :)
<lifeless> sivang: yes.
<carlos> jordi, done
<sivang> lifeless: ok, such that contribution should be maintained over time and not stick I suppose?
<jordi> carlos: great
<carlos> jordi, you will need to create the GNU translation teams
<carlos> jordi, setting as the owner the official coordinator for GNU 
<carlos> jordi, and setting the team as closed so only the owner can add new members
<jordi> yes
* carlos workraves
<SteveA> carlos: i'm sure there will be other changes based on the new review.  is there other stuff you can be doing while i review it and get it back to you, or would you rather that i did the review in chunks so that you can address one set of points while i continue reviewing?
<carlos> SteveA, I have other things to do so I can wait for a full review
<SteveA> ddaa: how's work going?
<zyga> morning carlos 
<carlos> zyga, morning
<carlos> SteveA, does it mean you want the diffs now? 
<ddaa> Little by little. Still reading morning email.
<carlos> SteveA, the notification thing broke many tests and I'm still fixing some of them
<ddaa> SteveA: once I'm done I think I'll start doing the importd2bzr tests that require a sandbox and sample archive (registration and checkout).
<ddaa> SteveA: BTW, I hit again the problem of wanting to change sample data with permission of a user different from the user running the rest of a doctest.
<ddaa> I hacked something with login(), but I think that's wrong.
<ddaa> actually, not hacked... I do login('foo.bar@canonical.com'), make sample data changes, then login(ANONYMOUS), go on with the test.
<ddaa> Is that supported?
<SteveA> ddaa: yes, you can do that
<ddaa> SteveA: I'm not too sure how that will interact with the fact that those tests shoud be run with a specific dbuser...
<ddaa> but... well, I think I we can leave by running importd2bzr as the importd user, even if it does not need all the privs.
<ddaa> * tha we can live
* ddaa does not usuall make much sense before lunch
<siretart> hi folks
<ajmitch_> hey siretart 
<siretart> can please anyone explain me why this bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pure-ftpd/+bug/3172 does not appear on this list: https://launchpad.net/people/motureviewers/+assignedbugs
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3172: ftpd (Ubuntu) - pure-ftpd does not install correctly. In: pure-ftpd (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/bugs/3172
<ajmitch_> siretart: it also doesn't show up on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pure-ftpd/+bugs
<ajmitch_> (probably due to pendingupload)
<ajmitch_> it's part of pending upload & fixed bugs not showing up, I think
<siretart> I don't understand why 'pending upload' bugs should not appear on bug lists
<ajmitch_> something to bug bradb about :)
<siretart> hm. he is currently not here.. let's wait for him
<carlos> jordi, will you answer the request for evolution's doc import?
<SteveA> it all depends who the bug list is for
<SteveA> if it is for a programmer or package maintainer then probably they're not immediately interested in "pending upload" bugs
<SteveA> if it is for a person reporting a bug, looking for dupes, then they are interested in a "pending upload" bug, because the bug is not fixed in any usable version of the software.
* carlos -> breakfast
<siretart> SteveA: is there any possibility to get a list of all bugs assigned to a group which are 'pending upload' or 'new' or 'accepted'?
<jordi> carlos: I wanted to talk about that with you
<ajmitch_> probably just a matter of adding the advanced search to the lsit
<jordi> carlos: do you plan to autoimport that as well?
<carlos> jordi, if GNOME's CVS has it, yes
<siretart> is there any 'advanced search' to bug lists at all?
<ajmitch_> siretart: yes, for /distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<jordi> carlos: GNOME CVS has xml
<jordi> carlos: but danilo's webpage has templates
* siretart check
<ajmitch_> siretart: it shows 92 currently pendingupload
<jordi> http://kvota.net/doc-l10n/by-modules.html
<jordi> thisi s what currently uses gnome-doc-utils
* ajmitch_ should close the phpmyadmin one
<jordi> evo not included, as expected
<carlos> jordi, hmmm, I suppose we could add them then
<carlos> jordi, let's talk about it after my breakfast, please :-P
<jordi> ok
<carlos> see you in 15 minutes 
<jordi> pretty late for breakfast :)
<carlos> jordi, I was waiting for my gf to wake up ;-)
<carlos> see you
<siretart>  Sorry, Launchpad took too long to process your request. :(
<SteveA> siretart: what URL?
<jordi> laters
<siretart> SteveA: I was trying to use https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs-advanced. I want a list of all bugs assigned to motureviewers which are in state 'New' 'Needinfo' 'Accepted' or 'Pending Upload'
<siretart> SteveA: would it be possible to add such a query to the motureviewers group?
<SteveA> there are two things going on here, i expect
<SteveA> the first is that the particular choice of query you're using on the +bugs-advanced page could do with better indexes
<ajmitch_> siretart: it just worked for me, but fails sometimes
<SteveA> so that the query doesn't time out.  please file a bug saying what query you chose, so that someone can reproduce it, and we'll look into what indexes are needed.
<SteveA> the second is that you're asking to be able to use a preconfigured query, i think.  so, that's another bug, and one for brad to look at.
<siretart> SteveA: should I ask brad here when he arrives or should I file a malone bug and assign it to him?
<SteveA> file a bug anyway, but you can also talk with brad
<SteveA> if we have the bug, then it's in the system
<siretart> ok. filing bug now
<SteveA> thanks
<siretart> is bradb brad.bollenbach@gmail.com?
<siretart> obviously yes. never mind
<siretart> filed as malone bug #5163
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5163: Need advanced query on MOTUReviewers group In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/5163
<matsubara> good morning!
<niemeyer> Morning!
<cprov> morning guys
<cprov> niemeyer:  could you please join ##soyuz1.0
<niemeyer> Sure
<carlos> jordi, ping
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : launchpad.net | developer meeting: Thur 1 Dec, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com  (wiki:MailingLists)
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : launchpad.net | developer meeting: Thur 1 Dec, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists)
<kiko> lifeless?
<lifeless> kiko: ?
<kiko> lifeless, any ETA on fixing the merge issue (crashing with a missing revision)?
<kiko> it's basically blocked my work on the gina branch
<lifeless> kiko: its essentially top priority
<kiko> (yes I realize I can pull out patches and apply to a new tree but I am avoiding that because there are a ton of diffs and logs I don't want to replay)
<lifeless> I've a new bzr I'm testing for it at the moment
<lifeless> had some versioning issues getting it onto chinstrap w/out fucking everything
<lifeless> wheres your branch published ?
<kiko> SteveA and I had discussed having a way to know where status is on the various bzr work, do you have a suggestion?
<kiko> on chinstrap, kiko/launchpad/gina-production IIRC
<lifeless> I'm not sure what you mean about status on bzr work
<kiko> chinstrap.ubuntu.com:/home/warthogs/archives/kiko/launchpad/gina-production/
<kiko> well
<kiko> there's a bunch of improvements and fixes to "bzr the platform" that are high-priority for the launchpad team.
<lifeless> like ?
<kiko> pqm move to balleny
<lifeless> Sorry I spoke with steve yesterday
<kiko> fixes to various bugs reported 
<lifeless> and there was only one show stopper we discussed
<lifeless> which is the one affecting you/jamesh/ a couple of other people
<Kinnison> lifeless: feature request for pqm's web ui... some indication of when pqm started the currently active job would be really nice
<kiko> okay, SteveA may have forgotten or chosen to talk about this at another time
<lifeless> everything else is moving along as it moves along
<lifeless> I don't mean that in an offhand manner
<kiko> I would like a better plan or status report than that
<lifeless> I mean that specific things like 'enable pqm on balleny' are in hand
<lifeless> And other specific things like 'implement archives' are much more vague, and I don't know which things interest you and which don't.
<SteveA> kiko: lifeless and I have discussed that the current serious can't merge bug was top priority for lifeless, and that the move of pqm to its own server was what was top priority before the merge bug appeared.
<lifeless> so I suggest that you treat the me & bzr the way the sysadmins team is treated: have a wiki page on wiki.lp.canonical.com where the things that matter to you right now are listed
<kiko> lifeless, we need WAY better response time than the sysadmins team
<kiko> so I'm not sure what the best way to go about this is
<SteveA> kiko: i don't think that's helpful
<SteveA> we get really good response time from the admins
<SteveA> when it matters, and when we communicate that it matters
<kiko> perhaps once the major blockers (this bugfix, move to balleny) are done we'll feel less need for this.
<kiko> I don't agree, SteveA, but we don't need to dicuss that now.
<lifeless> so kiko, what is the issue - do you feel you are getting bad response times? or are you stressed that a bug has not been fixed (it takes 2 hours to do a single analysis run on it you know)
<kiko> you're getting me sidetracked :-) so let me get back to my original question: is there an ETA on the fix for the bug.
<lifeless> kiko: I wish there was - no.
<kiko> okay. is it something that might take a week or a month?
<lifeless> currently I have this new bzr I'm testing then once I have it passing with all the moving bits - pqm, cm, email, bzrtools - I will be will rolling it out
<lifeless> next day or two I sincerely hope. I know its a huge impediment to have a branch you can't merge.
<kiko> it's okay, I just want to know when to schedule a retry (because it takes 7 hours to run)
<kiko> so I'll do that on thursday at the earliest
<kiko> thanks
<lifeless> it should only take that time once
<kiko> unless it fails :)
<lifeless> unless you are throwing away the dir afterwards
<kiko> oh?
<lifeless> even if it fails it should have updated the weaves
<kiko> interesting. 
<SteveA> how do we get the updated weaves onto chinstrap?  does that even make sense?
<kiko> and as for the PQM move, ETA would be probably sometime next week, lifeless?
<SteveA> i mean, it seems odd to have everyone doing tons of reweaving
<lifeless> SteveA: we will be doing that in the big-upload-of-all-old branches
<lifeless> SteveA: but we should not do that before then
<SteveA> and, that's after the pqm move?
<lifeless> SteveA: otherwise we will cause more reweaving than is needed
<lifeless> thats after the pqm move
<lifeless> pqm is running on balleny, its just not fully usable yet.
<Kinnison> stub: ping?
<lifeless> elmo fixed the issues a few hours ago in theory, so I'm testing it again shortly. Tomorrow morning I expect
<kiko> okay, that's what I wanted to know for now. thanks.
<jordi> carlos: pong
<salgado> SteveA, I have a new dependency for launchpad development (python2.4-pylib, to run the sqlobject tests), but the package is available only in breezy. should I add it now to the RocketFuelSetup wikipage or wait until pqm moves to balleny and we can have that package installed on the pqm box?
<ulinskie> hi!
<ulinskie> anybody knows how I can digitally sign my UBUNTU code of conduct?
<SteveA> salgado: does the package work on hoary?
<salgado> SteveA, it should work, as that's where I built it the first time
* salgado tries
<SteveA> salgado: we should get mdz to make it a dependency of the launchpad dependencies package
<SteveA> and then get that package installed on the pqm machine
<SteveA> lifeless / elmo: does balleny run breezy?  are we using mdz's launchpad dependency package on there?
<salgado> SteveA, yes, it does run breezy. I asked elmo already
<niemeyer> salgado: pylib?
<kiko> open question: has anyone had test failures in PQM in buildd-scoring ou person.txt?
<kiko> we're seeing apparently random failures
<kiko> lifeless, you apparently told niemeyer this had to do with postgresql?
<niemeyer> salgado: Managed to convince them it makes sense? :)
<SteveA> kiko: BjornT was looking at that i think
<salgado> niemeyer, actually it was uploaded to breezy when I asked doko. it was rejected in debian only
<niemeyer> salgado: Ah, I see.. :(
<salgado> only in debian, even
<niemeyer> salgado: Quite odd
<salgado> I only noticed it last week
<lifeless> kiko: I didn't, stevea said it might be a 8.0 vs 7.4 thing
<kiko> ah.
<kiko> sucks to be us.
<SteveA> ulinskie: hello
<SteveA> ulinskie: do you use GPG ?
<Kinnison> SteveA: was my review response enough to get r=stevea on the buildd/uploader branch?
<SteveA> Kinnison: if i didn't explicitly say so in my response, then no
<ulinskie> I just created minde
<ulinskie> I just created mine this morning
<Kinnison> SteveA: okay
<Kinnison> SteveA: thanks
<ulinskie> and was trying to figure out how to digitally sign the ubuntu code of conduct with it
* SteveA checks what he wrote
<SteveA> Kinnison: did i reply to your last response?  i mean, who spoke last in the thread?
<Kinnison> SteveA: I did
<SteveA> ulinskie: don't go!
<SteveA> Kinnison: then i owe you a reply
<Kinnison> SteveA: okay, just thought I'd ask
<BjornT> SteveA, kiko: i haven't looked at any buildd-scoring failures, i looked only slightly on the person.txt failure, but stub fixed it.
<kiko> okay, 50% cool
<BjornT> kiko: what is the error exactly?
<SteveA> kiko: dude, you're at least 70% cool
<kiko> I'll ask niemeyer to mail the mailing list
<Kinnison> buildd scoring failures?
<kiko> yeah
* niemeyer submits the merge again and hopes for the best
<SteveA> jamesh: hello
<SteveA> or spiv perhaps
<Kinnison> kiko: erk
<kiko> niemeyer is sending the email
<carlos> jordi, so... evolution documentation...
<spiv> SteveA: Hello
<kiko> hey spiv
<SteveA> hi spiv.  can you give some advice to Kinnison about testing a buildd related script?
<spiv> Sure.
<SteveA> he has sent email
<spiv> Yep, got it.
<SteveA> ta
<lifeless> night
<jordi> carlos: yeah
<kiko> hey jordi my man
<jordi> carlos: evo hasn't adopted gnome-doc-tools it seems
<spiv> jamesh: Hmm, the pending-reviews is lacking diffs...
<jordi> so there is no "official" pot
<jordi> kiko: YOU are the man
<kiko> I want some official pot
<kiko> and if you can't get me any can I at least have some glue
<jordi> I want some pot
<jordi> hah
<salgado> kiko, I know you're very good at this... can you suggest better names for this: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileDti2ia.html ?
<carlos> jordi, then I don't think we should import it
<carlos> jordi, ask him to bore upstream to move to use gnome-doc-tools
<kiko> salgado, flattery could get you in trouble
<spiv> Kinnison: Have you see canonical.librarian.ftests.test_gc?
<Kinnison> spiv: No, I haven't
<kiko> salgado, maybe getRequestedCDCount(self, country=None, approved=False) -- ?
<spiv> Kinnison: I think the right approach to testing the buildd slave scanner would probably look quite similar.
<Kinnison> spiv: I'm just merging into my buildd fixes branch and I'll take a look, thanks
<spiv> Kinnison: test_gc is the tests for LibrarianGarbageCollection, which is a cronscript.  test_gc tests the functions directly, and also invokes the cronscript.
<spiv> Kinnison: I think it's a similar, if slightly simpler, situation to yours.
<Kinnison> spiv: thanks
<jordi> carlos: ok
<salgado> kiko, looks okay. I'll try that
<kiko> salgado, the "or" there is what makes me uneasy about Requested, but if you think it's okay..
<elmo> grr, why does the launchpad-dev pkg recommend the lunachpad-database-dev package?  it massively reduces it's usabilityt
<Kinnison> it does?
<elmo> % apt-cache show launchpad-dependencies | grep Recommends
<elmo> Recommends: launchpad-database-dependencies
<stub> Kinnison: pong
<elmo> the ratio of machines that need database to that don't in the DC is something like 8:1
<Kinnison> stub: Librarian GC fails when it has to merge > 2 aliases pointing at the same content
<Kinnison> stub: as a stop-gap to get it running on dogfood I subbed the comma for a percent on the relevant cur.execute
<Kinnison> stub: this is running from allegedly up-to-date rocketfuel
<Kinnison> stub: basically the cursor is turning "123, 456" into a quoted string in the interpolation, rather than a list of numbers
<Kinnison> stub: so it needs to be interpolated in first, or else you need to use an SQL function in the query to split it apart again
<stub> Kinnison: Hmm... I could have sworn that was fixed and merged in.
<stub> Kinnison: It is fixed on the version I'm running on staging anyway
<Kinnison> stub: How did you fix it?
<stub> Kinnison: Do you have BATCH_SIZE = 1 near the top of lib/canonical/librarian/librariangc.py ?
<stub> Kinnison: The fix it to replate ', vars()' with '% vars()'
<Kinnison> No I don't
<Kinnison> and yes, I did that replace
<stub> Kinnison: Hmm... then either my changes havn't landed or you aren't up to date enough
* Kinnison re-ran rollout
<stub> I just pushed that branch to pqm again
<jordi> carlos: there are more updates to do in the DB
<carlos> jordi, which ones did I miss?
<stub> Send 'em through - I was about to do the one Carlos emailed me
<jordi> carlos: wait
<jordi> ok
<carlos> jordi, I saw another plural form request but I asked form more info. And the spokenin update is also pending for more info
<carlos> s/form/for/
<jordi> carlos: also pending: add ubuntu-l10n-mr to ubuntu translators
<carlos> jordi, I can do that from the website
* carlos does it now
<jordi> The other one with pending info, is it "Sng"?
<carlos> don't think so, no
<carlos> when was it send?
<stub> So would the buildd's scoring system (whatever it is scoring) degrade scores over time by any chance?
<jordi> Oct 23
<carlos> jordi, btw, which language is mr ?
<stub> cprov, Kinnison: ^^^
<cprov> stub: the opposite, older builds in queue has higher scores. 
<jordi> Marathi
<jordi> carlos: the spoken in thing, is it the Sri Lanka request?
<cprov> stub: this way we enforce they get processed ASAP. Did I missunderstand your question ?
<jordi> that would be Sinhala (si) and Tamil (ta)
<jordi> Ah, I see you replied
<jordi> Sinhala = si, yes
<carlos> jordi, yes
<jordi> Sinhala and Sinhalese are equivalent
<jordi> so you can add that to the DB
<carlos> ok
<kiko> stub, for soyuz testing, is it okay that we are testing using the development config and not the production config? 
<stub> cprov: Oh - just thinking that  niemeyer 's problem with the buildd tests failing on him might have had the same cause as the karma tests failing on me the other day. If the score calculation changes, then the scores of the sampledata items will change over time. And tests that encode the scores will start failing.
<jordi> did you find Sng?
<stub> kiko: What bits of soyuz? The config you are using shouldn't matter (and you couldn't use production config anyway since that will only work for production systems)
<cprov> stub: the score tests have relational interval times, NOW - X seconds 
<kiko> stub, ftp, upload queue and publish bits
<cprov> stub: I have the same karma errors and the wrong about that was the current karma datecreated not a 2025 pattern as the other, it's time sensible too
<jordi> carlos: according to the guy, Sango
<jordi> n == 1 ? 0 :  (n == 0 ? 0 : 1)
<jordi> is this
<jordi> but, doesn't that look wrong?
<stub> kiko: Should all be fine.
<kiko> thanks stub 
<salgado> cprov, it's weird though, that no merges should be going through pqm if that was the cause of the karma test failing
<stub> cprov: Fix for the karma has landed now, along with a test to ensure bad karma doesn't end up in the sample data again.
<stub> Sounds like you haven't merged from rocketfuel recently
<carlos> jordi, it's the same as 'n > 1'
<carlos> jordi, I answered that email already
<cprov> salgado: yes, it's weird 
<carlos> preparing the spokenin patch so Stuart can apply all them at the same time
<jordi> carlos: heh, right
<jordi> ok
<jordi> carlos: I haven't got your reply yet then
<cprov> stub:  "Sounds like you haven't merged from rocketfuel recently" ... me ? why ?
<carlos> stub, I have the other sql commands, do you want them by email ?
<stub> carlos: whatever ;)
<salgado> hi daf. are you around?
* Kinnison lunche
<Kinnison> +s
<daf> salgado: hi
<salgado> daf, have you tried merging the accounts again, after you got the timeout?
<daf> I'll do that now
<carlos> jordi, stub https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileK7R7hn.html
<daf> I tried to merge two accounts at the same time
<daf> one of them worked, one of them timed out
<kiko> hey daf
<kiko> do you have a traceback for the timeout?
<salgado> oh, that could be the problem then
<daf> could be
<daf> it happened when Launchpad detected accounts from my GPG key (clever!) and suggested I merge them
<daf> aha, it timed out again
<salgado> daf, did you get a traceback this time?
<daf> remind me -- how do I get a traceback?
<daf> it just says "orry, Launchpad took too long to process your request. Blah blah blah."
<daf> well, not literally
<carlos> jordi, ubuntu-l10n-mr added. Anything else?
<salgado> daf, all members of the launchpad team should see tracebacks in the error pages
<daf> mm
<spiv> salgado: https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1133271955.030.903115280185 looks like it.
<jordi> carlos: not right now, I think.
<salgado> spiv, yeah, I got it too
<daf> interesting -- I am logged in
<spiv> Assuming you get the right appserver, I guess...
<SteveA> daf needs adding to some team, i expect
<SteveA> jamesh's error reporting stuff should land soon
<daf> I'm a member of Launchpad Administrators and Launchpad Developers
<SteveA> which will improve our QA a HUGE amount
<daf> ooh
<carlos> jordi, ok
<daf> sounds good
<SteveA> daf: you should see TBs.  try going to a 404 URL
<jordi> carlos: quim unsubbed from rosetta :)
<salgado> daf, stub, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filexYywyj.html
<carlos> jordi, yeah, I know
<jordi> hey daf!
<salgado> daf, the problem could be because you have too much stuff to merge or because the posubmision table is locked by another transaction
<salgado> stub, what do you think?
<daf> *cough* "Accept expired security information?
<daf> The security information for "chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com" expired on Sat 28 May 2005."
<carlos> jordi, dude, you are completely blind!  daf was here for a while already! :-)
<spiv> salgado: Hmm, there's an index on posubmission.person, so updates to that column are likely to be very expensive.
<daf> hey jordi :)
<jordi> carlos: I was not looking you know :)
<jordi> there's this thing called lliurex
<jordi> carlos: besides, he's in the Other Secret Channel :)
<carlos> jordi, which one?
<carlos> jordi, tell me its name here, no one else will see it, really...
<carlos> ;-)
<daf> spiv: aye, that must be it
<jordi> carlos: mako's channel.
<jordi> #yukidoke
<stub> daf: Something else was holding open a lock on posubmission or person. Did this just happen?
<spiv> I guess person merge is likely to be one of our most expensive operations, because it can write to a fairly large number of rows in many tables.
<salgado> spiv, that's bad. we should have indexes on the foreign key to person on other tables that are updated when merging accounts
* stub checks the date - 9 mins ago
<SteveA> we could do a queue for it
* salgado waits for someone to suggest doing merges asynchronously
<SteveA> timemachine!
<salgado> they already did. :-(
<kiko> salgado, SteveA even beat you to the message!
<SteveA> let's do the timewarp again
<spiv> Of course, guessing about performance is likely to be completely wrong...
<kiko> dude I want salgado to READ MY EMAIL
<spiv> So I should stop speculating :)
<SteveA> adding indexes may be bogus
<SteveA> because they need to be updated with the updates
<SteveA> so, although you can find the information quicker, it will take longer to change
<jordi> going home
<daf> I think finding happens much more often than updating in this case
<jordi> carlos: will work on the mail queue today
<jordi> carlos: whe do you leave?
<carlos> jordi, cool
<carlos> jordi, around 18:00 local time
<jordi> today, until when?
<carlos> oh
<carlos> holidays?
<jordi> kiko: you're going to love my zillions of requestss to populate the GNU translators group :)
<jordi> yeah
<jordi> oh, so it's not today
<jordi> :)
<carlos> no
<carlos> ;-)
<jordi> ok
<jordi> nm then
<carlos> From Monday till Friday both included
<jordi> k
<jordi> woah man
<jordi> mega-puente
<carlos> jordi, but wasting holidays
<carlos> ;-)
<jordi> I'll probably be in Barcelona during the 2nd weekend.
<jordi> "wasting"
<carlos> jordi, ok
<kiko> jordi, do you want to come to brazil for xmas?
<carlos> :-D
<jordi> not "wasting" if you have fun :)
<jordi> kiko: will it be BORING?
<kiko> YES and it will include NAKED ALIENS
<jordi> kiko: actually, maybe yes.
<carlos> jordi, "puente" is when you don't get holidays but just free days :-D
<jordi> OH DUDE
* carlos -> lunch
<jordi> carlos: I need to talk about the "puente" here :)
<jordi> laters
<kiko> jordi, look for tickets, week before and after xmas 
<jordi> 15.00. The magic time of the day.
<spiv> Oh, that's unfortunate.  I can see daf's password in the error report :/
<jordi> kiko: let's talk about this later today
<kiko> cool
<carlos> jordi, I don't think Mark will agree with that "Spanish" concept :-P
<jordi> heh
<daf> oh, nice :)
<kiko> spiv, I can see jordi naked in ANOTHER error report
<spiv> daf: Because it's part of the form, I guess.
<salgado> that's right, because your password is in the request.form
<daf> spiv: yep
<salgado> OMG, everybody is beating me today
<carlos> kiko, dude, you didn't show me the pornlet!!!
<spiv> kiko: I think I'll pretend I never heard that.
<jordi> "mark, so... we have this thing called Siesta. We will be on stand-by mode from 14:00 to 17:00 every day. And then, there's the "bridges".
<spiv> salgado: It's your slow internet ;)
<carlos> jordi, WTF? three hours????
<carlos> jordi, dude!!!
<salgado> but it's fast now. two times faster than it was
<salgado> and even so, it's still slow. :-(
<jordi> carlos: a good siesta, :)
<daf> bandwidth vs. latency?
<jordi> ok, off
<kiko> salgado, IRC goes over the bad-latency link
<salgado> even the latency is good (okay, okay, acceptable) now
<salgado> ah, that's true
* salgado forgot that
<jamesh> cprov: if you can reliably reproduce the crash BjornT brought up, could you try the steps I mentioned in the followup email?
<cprov> jamesh: sure, I'm on it 
<stub> Kinnison: BATCH_SIZE = 1 can be found in HEAD's lib/canonical/librarian/librariangc.py, which indicates you are not merged up as much as you think you are.
<kiko> "What I do know, is that these fucking idiots claim there is free wireless in this spot of Terminal 2F, but it's not true at all."
<stub> Free wireless in an airport? I'll believe that when the stop asking for my credit card :-/
<jamesh> stub: Changi airport in Singapore has free wireless
<jamesh> (well, it did when I was there last time)
* carlos -> lunch
<stub> web browsing only, or actual internet?
<jamesh> full internet access
<stub> cool
<BjornT> vilnius airport has free wireless as well :)
<jamesh> you need to pay if you don't have your own laptop/wireless card though
<SteveA> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/DevelopmentMeeting20051124  <-- summary of thursday's meeting
<SteveA> carlos: how's that diff going?
<bradb> BjornT: Has that change landed to make control commands automatically operate on the correct task if there only is one task?
<BjornT> bradb: no, i'm working on it now. should be able to submit it for review today or tomorrow.
<bradb> ok, cool
<salgado> daf, will you try that merge again, for us to check if it fails in the same query?
<daf> timed out again
<daf> by the way: s/bellow/below/ on the merge form
<stub> bugger
<daf> the other merge I did at almost the same time worked fine first time
<salgado> now it failed when merging the pofiles
<daf> hmm, maybe it's just that that account has a huge amount of stuff to merge?
<salgado> I guess so
<kiko> you should have been less active
<daf> sorry kiko 
<jamesh> BjornT: if it's not too much trouble, could you try running gdb again but slightly differently?
<salgado> kiko, do you have access to the staging db?
<jamesh> BjornT: instead of waiting for a core file, run "gdb python2.4", then at the gdb prompt type "run -vvf --test=..."
<salgado> kiko, I'll try merging your account into mine, to see if it fails while reassigning all the bugs you reported to me
<jamesh> BjornT: it should drop back to the gdb prompt at the crash, where you can do a back trace
<BjornT> jamesh: sure, i'll do that.
<jamesh> BjornT: if the trace is identical then don't bother reposting it
<jamesh> I'm just wondering if it is a case of unreliable symbol names due to stripping or a corrupt stack
<kiko> salgado, I do have access to the staging db, and don't you go stealing my karma
<salgado> kiko, it's on staging. stub will give your karma back tomorrow. :)
<BjornT> jamesh: the backtrace is identical (both bt and pystack)
<jamesh> BjornT: okay, thanks.
<sivang> kiko: you're hosting an Xmas party with naked aliens? :-)
<kiko> salgado, I think staging isn't being updated
<kiko> sivang, maybe.
<kiko> it depends if they accept my invitation
<sivang> kiko: rotfl, girl aliens?
<kiko> bradb, my comment to bug 3620 refers to the guided-bug-entry form that we specified in, uhm, JANUARY 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3620: Default bug list should include Pending Upload bugs In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: NeedInfo http://launchpad.net/bugs/3620
<carlos> SteveA, I think I will have it ready in next hour or so, I think I fixed most productseries issues I got after move it to the new notification code
<salgado> kiko, I just realized it's impossible to even request a merge in staging --it times out
<kiko> salgado, argh
<bradb> kiko: I think much of the UI design from UbuntuWayBelowZero would still stand up to today's use cases
<kiko> bradb, for the record, I don't really like the idea of a footer for bugmail
<salgado> stub, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filepJRPMZ.html <= this query is timing out in staging. is it possible to optimize it?
<bradb> kiko: Why not?
<kiko> bradb, it generated a lot of negative feedback in bugzilla, basically because it looks bad and doesn't answer the imporant question. I'd suggest doing it as another header
<kiko> s/the imporant/any important/
<kiko> bradb, if you added a header it would be easily filterable and still provide what you want
<bradb> kiko: A Malone email is pretty hard to identify unless you know what to look for but if, for someone like elmo, you (reasonably) don't even have any idea why you're receiving the email to begin with, it's just downright ARGH.
<bradb> kiko: A header would not have solved the problem that was reported.
<kiko> bradb, bug 3797? it would. read his last comment.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3797: Bug mails should be more descriptive In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: NeedInfo http://launchpad.net/bugs/3797
* sivang goes over last meeting's summary
<bradb> kiko: elmo didn't comment on that bug.
<kiko> bradb, I am really not thrilled by the footer. It is bad UI to say "or", to start off with. but let mpt comment on it
<kiko> "You are receiving this message because you are on the Cc list of this bug, or are a member of a team that is, or you are assigned to fix it."
<kiko> you /could/ say "This email was send to you by Launchpad's bug tracker"
<bradb> kiko: The problem that people were complaining about (not referring to 3797, which is a different issue, probably solved by X-Launchpad-Bug, already) is not knowing why they were receiving this mail.
<bradb> kiko: "Why?"
<kiko> bradb, I understand the problem you're trying to solve. But saying "A or B or C" isn't a good answer to Why?
<kiko> and people have flamed bugzilla for doing it
<bradb> kiko: That doesn't mean it's bad.
<kiko> it's pretty bad
<kiko> if you want a /good/ answer then do the extra work necessary
<kiko> find out /why/
<bradb> kiko: I could have made it give a more precise answer, and if mpt and others think it's worth the extra work, then I'd more than happily do it.
<kiko> You are assigned to this bug.
<kiko> You are a member of the MOTU team, assigned to this bug.
<bradb> Yes, I fully agree with you that that would be excellent. It just takes about 2 days longer to implement :)
<kiko> I just think it's not worth doing anything but that
<kiko> (and you could have brought it up on launchpad-list..)
<kiko> anyway
<kiko> Jorge's reply is reasonable -- the footer doesn't help.
<kiko> (doesn't help with bug 3797)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3797: Bug mails should be more descriptive In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: NeedInfo http://launchpad.net/bugs/3797
<bradb> kiko: Do you want me to fix the footer today? It might be doable, and I think it would be a nice step forward in despamifying bugmail.
<kiko> bradb, mpt is in the house, and after lunch I am pretty sure I can get him to give you an opinion on it :-)
<bradb> ok
<mhz> kiko: bradb: hi. I case you dont't remember me, I had trouble yesterday with 'confirming email' after creating 2 teams in LP
<bradb> mhz: How did it turn out?
<mhz> no success :)
<kiko> bradb, I'd suggest the 5c fix to bug 4595 is just not linkifying it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4595: Don't auto-linkify non-existent bug reports In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/4595
<mhz> however, the teams info is there
<kiko> mhz, interesting. I need to have lunch now, though. growl. salgado, mhz's problem is in your area -- can you give him some user support?
<mhz> kiko: thx again
<mhz> and i'm sorry to be bugging so much
<bradb> We don't mind being bugged. There's not much point doing this if not for the users.
<kiko> nah, I want to fix this, I'm just having a @#!@! busy week
<mhz> my major concern is for others who will join. I don't want them to feel this is more complex that they are used  to (mainly teachers) and it does not work properly :)
<mhz> bradb: thx
<bradb> mpt!
<mhz> bradb: BTW, just fyi, so far many of the people who will join are learning moin wiki and they felt it was difficult
* kiko kicks mpt into fud mode
<bradb> mhz: I agree with them.
<bradb> The day I first saw a version of the Moin wiki where you logged in by going to the "UserPreferences" link, I knew there was trouble ahead.
<mhz> bradb: hehehehe
<mhz> bradb: hence I am starting to work on a KISS how to work with Moin
<mhz> bradb: however, that UserPreferences can be 'named' log in if admin wanted to.
<mhz> it's a small tweak
<bradb> yeah
<mhz> actually, there's a theme that uses only login instead
<mhz> once I finish that KISS doc, i'd love to help writing a KISS howto LP
<mhz> IMHO, LP is a whole new concept for team-work
<mhz> .oO(if LP was just 'connected' with Moin...)
<salgado> mhz, you had problems creating teams or validating the team email address?
<mhz> salgado: the latter
<salgado> mhz, was it you who reported https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/5122 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5122: Validate email in team In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/5122
<mhz> salgado: nope, but it looks similar
<mhz> similar prob, I mean
<stub> salgado: It is much faster if you do it as two seperate queries and join them, which can be done by rewriting it to use UNION
* mhz understood the idea, but he was far from knowing how to do it :)
<bradb> BjornT: I've forwarded you an email about the Malone UI seemingly swallowing some of my bugmail. Any ideas?
<BjornT> bradb: hmm. so, sending mail in tests and in production works differently. the thing is that an email notifications was sent, then the transaction was aborted due to an error. (you should have gotten an error message, and no comment should have been added)
<BjornT> bradb: i guess i have to ensure that the events are fired off after the email has been fully processed.
<BjornT> (the 'no error message' is another issue, which i will be working on in the next few days)
<daf> salgado: I tried the merge again and it worked
<BjornT> bradb: ah, missed the part that the bug report was swallowed as well, i'll have to look into that
<bradb> BjornT: the no error messages thing is particularly deadly. :/ I could be losing a lot of work that I'm doing this morning, for all I know. it's good to know that you're working on it though.
<stub> daf: Could you please try that person merge again?
<stub> Ahh...
* stub checks the clock
<salgado> stub, did you change anything that could make the merge to succeed?
<daf> my karma just went way up
<stub> daf: do you remember roughly when the merge worked? I made some changes over the last 10 mins.
<daf> 16:25ish UTC
<stub> salgado: I've created a stack of indexes that should fix it
<stub> daf: Ok. I think you managed to do it just as I'd finished adding a load of indexes ;)
<daf> heh
<daf> I'm probably not exceptional in having a lot of extant translation work under different email addresses, so I imagine we'll hear about it again if it's not fixed
<daf> in the meantime, I reckon we can close the bug
<salgado> stub, cool. should this be enough or do you think we should do the merges asynchronously?
<bradb> BjornT: Also, what do you think of removing the requirement to GPG-sign mail messages?
<stub> salgado: The current code will last a while longer
<stub> salgado: But we will eventually need to redo it asynchronously.
<salgado> fair enough
<salgado> stub, did you see my message where I ask you if it's possible to optimize another query?
<salgado> this is the query: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~dsilvers/paste/filepJRPMZ.html
<BjornT_> bradb: for bug submission, i think we should definitely do it. for editing bugs i'm not sure, i don't think i would mind removing the requirement, but as i remember there was a great deal of discussion last time this was suggested.
<BjornT_> bradb: for example, we'd have to special case private bugs
<stub> salgado: Yes - I looked at that.
<bradb> BjornT: right
<salgado> stub, that query fails in staging all the time. that's why I asked
<stub> salgado: It is much faster if you split it into two queries, joined with a UNION (select Person.whatever from person,emailaddress where person.id = emailaddress.person and person.fti @@ ftq('kiko') union select person.whatever from person,emailaddress where person.id = emailaddress.person and lower(email) like 'kiko%%')
<stub> Oh... and the 'merged is null and teamowner is null' clauses in there too
<stub> That query looked like it was generated with SQLObject - can you make SQLObject to the UNION in that fashion?
<salgado> stub, right, I'll try to fix this today. would you review it?
<stub> salgado: If I'm still up ;)
<salgado> stub, btw, I have a small db patch, can you review it now?
<salgado> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filehSe6wg.html
<stub> salgado: continents have codes?
<stub> Or are you just making them up?
<salgado> stub, this db patch comes with sampledata to fill the continent table and the links from the country to the continent table
<salgado> stub, I got the codes and everything from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_continent_%28data_file%29
<stub> Cool - I never realized there was some sort of a standard
<stub> I'll need the sampledata as a .sql in database/schema/pending as normal
<salgado> I'm not sure that's a standard, actually. but it's something...
<salgado> stub, hmmmm. you need a .sql that updates the existing data and inserts new stuff?
<carlos> SteveA, ok, I have my branch free of test failures
<stub> Approved pending table comments (including a link to that URL). patch-40-07-0.sql
<carlos> SteveA, I will prepare the diffs and send you them by email
<stub> salgado: ^^^
<salgado> stub, or can it have inserts that are supposed to replace existing data
<SteveA> carlos: cool.  i'll start the review
* salgado writes db comments
<stub> salgado: inserts the continent records and updates the country records. What I need to run on production (and probably what you use to update the sample data)
<salgado> (before he forgets)
<carlos> SteveA, I'm sure we will need another review because I had to change a lot of code and I didn't fix all issues the old code had.
<salgado> stub, right, I'll write that too
<carlos> SteveA, but If you don't mind... I prefer to fix the issues introduced by me and then, after merge it into rocketfuel, address the others
<carlos> so we are sure this update lands into production next week
<carlos> SteveA, if you don't mind, of course
<SteveA> carlos: i understand what you're saying.  let's see what's in there, and then we'll talk about it.
<BjornT> bradb: as for your bug submission problem, i haven't found the exact problem yet, but i'm quite sure it has to do with the attached zip file. if you don't attach a file it should work.
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<jblack_> Gah. Big windstorm here. Lost power.
<carlos> SteveA, hmm, I had to merge from rocketfuel so I'm not sure I can provide you a diff of the changes since the initial review
<carlos> any hint?
<SteveA> carlos: just give me the diff against RF then, but also mail rob collins to ask the question for future reference
<carlos> ok
<salgado> stub, the .sql file to update existing data should be left in schema/pending/ right?
<carlos> SteveA, mail sent
<stub> salgado: yes
<salgado> stub, but then the tests will break, no? I have a NOT NULL constraint on Country.continent
<salgado> actually, it'll fail to load the sampledata
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you later
* bradb & # lunch
<Kinnison> stub: On dogfood, to speed up librarian GC, I added an index on libraryfilealias over the content column
<Kinnison> stub: is this a bad thing to have done?
<stub> libraryfilealias already has an index on content
<Kinnison> It didn't on dogfood
<Kinnison> most odd
<stub> Kinnison: schema creep.
<Kinnison> then it wasn't a bad thing to have done
<Kinnison> hurrah
<stub> It looks like an initial run on production will take over 5 days. Although disk on the Librarian will be going up to 4TB soon, so we could just not bother for a year or two.
<Kinnison> I think it's better to keep running this sort of cleanup
<Kinnison> because regardless of how much space we have, keeping the ratio of live data to garbage as sane as possible should be a priority
<elmo> FWIW, the morgue on jackass is still only 270GB or so, that's since 2004/06
<elmo> all binaries, all source
<stub> I suspect you are right. If the time scales linearly the run would take over 20 days if we do let it get up to 4TB ;)
<Kinnison> elmo: aye, but the librarian has huge amounts of stuff in it which aren't package-related
<Kinnison> elmo: In particular, as rosetta usage ramps up, we'll be creating more and more
<elmo> stub: also I've no idea what it is you're doing, but you could probably half that runtime if you wait for the new machine
<elmo> the machine itself and the array are like, an order of magnitude faster
<Kinnison> elmo: s'mostly database
<elmo> oh, meh, well never mind then
<Kinnison> It's very cute database stuff
* Kinnison particularly likes stub's reference finder
<stub> elmo: Removing 10 rows from one of the tables takes 7 seconds. And there are 500,000 dangling waiting to be tidied ;)
<elmo> stub: take the constraints off, that'll speed up removing the rows ;-P
<elmo> \o/ <-- winn0r
* Kinnison grins elmo
<stub> Look ma, no hands!
<Kinnison>  Look ma, ain't life grand?
<Kinnison>  Didn't I turn out, oh didn't I turn out to be.. everythin' you wanted ma? Ain't you proud of meeeee?!
<Kinnison> NP: "Look ma, no hands"
<ddaa> There's this not-funny jokes that ends with "Look ma, no theeth!"
* Kinnison nods
<ddaa> stub: can you please add bzrtool at revision 261 (abentley branch) into ./sourcecode/bzr/bzrlib/plugins?
<ddaa> mh...
<ddaa> nevermind that, I'll need to add it locally, but lifeless is supposed to put a custom baz2bzr in launchpad for me.
<Kinnison> ciao all
* Kinnison -> dinner and out
* _keturn summons stub
<ddaa> The deity you have summoned has not been implemented yet.
<lifeless> _keturn: what do you need ?
<_keturn> I'm interested in your application of OpenID.  Then I found some braindumps on the spec page, and that helped.
<ddaa> Hey lifeless.
<ddaa> Hozit goin?
<ddaa> lifeless: I'm zeroing in on importd2bzr, I'm going to be blocking on your baz2bzr customisation very soon.
<ddaa> lifeless: also, I'd like your opnion on an implementation point.
<ddaa> Do you think we should commit directly to the http-served bzr branch, or should we commit to a scratch branch and push to the http-served one?
<lifeless> for importd bzr style, I think it should use a temporary branch
<lifeless> for the same reasons that we used a wipeable master in the arch world
<lifeless> its going well, busy as, but well.
<lifeless> re baz2bzr I understand, I'm juggling priorities :[
<lifeless> for the baz2bzr run, we don't need to have a temp branch because baz2bzr has that built in.
<ddaa> right, that was what I was asking
<ddaa> Okay, then I just need to sprinkle a few logging statements, adjust the test suite, and and it's done, I think.
<lifeless> cool.
<ddaa> But cannot be merged before launchpad has baz2bzr
<lifeless> yup
<lifeless> You are using the bzrtools-launchpad branch ?
<ddaa> hu... no, I stuffed a bzrtool 0.6 in my launchpad checkout.
<ddaa> I do not know about bzrtools-launchpad
<lifeless> ok, bzrtools 0.6 has teh wrong interface
<lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/baz2.0/bzrtools-launchpad
<lifeless> that has the same api to drive that you will want
<ddaa> great
<lifeless> I'll be branching off that to make the copy in rf
<ddaa> you'll be putting it in sourcecode/bzr/bzrlib/plugins, right?
<lifeless> no
<ddaa> :(
<lifeless> sourcecode/bzrtools
<lifeless> we try not to nest branches as it makes it unclear
<lifeless> there will be a symlink in sourcecode/bzr/bzrlib/plugins to it
<ddaa> hu... what will be the symlink then, lib/bzrtools -> ../sourcecode/bzrtools?
<lifeless> you will be able to import it as bzrlib.plugins.bzrtools
<ddaa> hu?
<lifeless> which is its official name
<lifeless> hu?
<ddaa> able to import it as bzrlib.plugins.bzrtools
<lifeless> right
<ddaa> how comes?
<lifeless> you want to know how to get at the api right ?
<ddaa> oh yes, I have enough information for that now. But I'm just wondering how you get bzrtools to appears within a package where it does not live.
<lifeless> bzrtools is a plugin, it logically lives at bzrli.plugins.bzrtools
<ddaa> sure
<lifeless> but to make it easy to see that its in our sourcecode tree we put it at sourcecode/bzrtools
<ddaa> sure
<lifeless> to make it appear we just symlink it from the bzrlib/plugins dir
<lifeless> ln -s ../../bzrtools
<ddaa> ha, right
<ddaa> so no link to bzrtools in ./lib
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> 'import bzrtools' is not guaranteed to work.
<ddaa> ?
<lifeless> if there was a link in lib you would be able to do 'import bzrtools'
<ddaa> ha, yes
<ddaa> sorry, I read "import bzrlib is not guaranteed to work"
<lifeless> hah!
<ddaa> Thanks, I'll fix for the right API very soon.
<lifeless> np
<ddaa> BTW, I have to say I find doctests quite fun to write.
<ddaa> less painful than unittest
<lifeless> interesting
<ddaa> at least when one does not need multiple fixtures
<lifeless> I find them great for documenting how an api should be used
<lifeless> terrible for doing TDD beyond the trivial 'this works' point
<ddaa> But then I'm a bit sick you know. I once wrote a non-trivial gtk+ app using funnelweb (a literate programming tool).
<lifeless> ;)
<ddaa> I like the literate programming aspect of doctests.
<lifeless> so do I 
<ddaa> I just wish they had better support for fixtures.
<lifeless> well
<ddaa> anyway, I'll probably change my mind in a few weeks :)
<lifeless> I think that the things that make doctest great - that it makes it easier to write comments than code - cause a diametric tension with the things that make xUnit great - making it easier to write tests than code
<lifeless> so what I want to do is to make it easier to switch between them
<lifeless> to say 'now I want to document an API'
<lifeless> and then 'bugger, I have a bug in the behaviour, I want a unittest with precise semantics
<lifeless> *easily*
<ddaa> Mh... I see your point.
<ddaa> sort of
<ddaa> I do not yet have good feel of doctest shortcomings.
<ddaa> When I mean doctest, I mean "doctest in a text file".
<ddaa> Not in a docstring.
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> I figured that ;)
<lifeless> I see a pattern in doctest tests - they tend to be inadequate ;)
<lifeless> I don't mean that as a slight on the testers, but the tool encourages a particular set of tests
<ddaa> Want to review my branch?
<ddaa> I think i'm stubborn enough to test what I want to test, regardless.
<lifeless> Thanks, but I'd rather get the other stuff I have on my todo for you done ;0
<lifeless> I'm sure you are testing that.
<lifeless> And I'll definately look at it to see how you are meeting the challenges I'm thinking off
<ddaa> Well, that's pretty trivial code all in all.
<ddaa> Probably not a good benchmark.
<lifeless> so, the launchpad list has had a number of threads about 'how do I test foobar effectively'
<lifeless> where the answer in unittest is trivial, but in doctest you have a harder time - for instance you can choose between testing equality, or having the mismatched object printed on error
<lifeless> you can't get both
<lifeless> if there was a 'self' in the doctest that had the value of a unittest TestCase, then you could. I think that that would be interesting to play with
<ddaa> Ho right. I had that once already. I code a helper funciton with a conditional.
<ddaa> if object == expected:
<ddaa>   print "object ok"
<ddaa> else:
<lifeless> so you are implementing machinery that unittest provides.
<ddaa>   print "got bad object %r" % (object,)
<lifeless> except because its not 'stock', its not a language that everyone reading your test knows
<jblack> ddaa! Been a while. How are you? 
<ddaa> lifeless: but that's only really a problem when the object does not have a useful enough repr.
<ddaa> But, you are right. Most of my tests would not do good diagnostic output if they start failing.
<ddaa> (most of non-trivial ones)
<lifeless> ddaa: hah! Its quite possible that two objects with different repr compare ==
<lifeless> ddaa: anyway, I need to get nose down. ciao
<jblack> You're thinking the sm __eq__ ? 
<ddaa> lifeless: probably bad repr then...
<ddaa> hello jblack
<ddaa> I'm feeling a bit tired. Could use some holiday.
<ddaa> And I'm having my first experience in living with a woman. So far we did not have to buy new dishes.
<ddaa> That's a good thing, I guess :)
<jblack> congrats!
<bradb> BjornT: The Malone email UI doesn't support "duplicate" yet, right? If not, I'll open a bug.
<ddaa> jblack: and how are you doing?
<jblack> Pretty good. The supermirror is close to done
<jblack> I've got a handler for format4, and bzrlib support for 5 and 6
<ddaa> do you _really_ want to support format4?
<jblack> No. Its disabled.
<ddaa> anybody in his right mind would have upgraded, or would soon.
<jblack> but when there's a format7, I can move format5_6 to format 7, and format4 to 5 and 6
<jblack> aye. 
<ddaa> hu?
<ddaa> -ENOSENSE
<jblack> Never mind. 
<jblack> Just think "supermirror with bzrlib for format 5 and 6
<ddaa> Anyway, there should not any watershed format change in the future...
<jblack> Ohhh. interesting
<jblack> bzr: WARNING: bzrlib version doesn't match the bzr program.
<jblack> This may indicate an installation problem.
<ddaa> Your PYTHONPATH
<jblack> I guess I have to set path and PYTHONPATH at the same time
<ddaa> launchpad contains bzrlib
<ddaa> if you do "PYTHONPATH=$PWD/lib ; bzr" is launchpad, you'll get that.
<ddaa> lifeless: *cries*
<ddaa> lifeless: bzrtool-launchpad is incompatible with the bzrlib in launchpad!
<lifeless> ddaa: theres a bzr-launchpad too 
<lifeless> if you could update the bzr in launchpad that would be great
<lifeless> just send in a merge request ;)
<ddaa> rs=lifeless
<ddaa> right?
<lifeless> [Trivial]  Update to new upstream
<ddaa> ack will do
<BjornT> bradb: right, the email ui doesn't support 'duplicate' yet
<bradb> BjornT: ok...maybe I should just implement it now, or would it conflict with something you're doing?
* bradb files a bug, one way or the other
<BjornT> bradb: hmm, i think it would be best if you waited until my changes are done.
<bradb> ok, no prob
<SteveA> Seveas: hi, are you around?
<Seveas> SteveA, yes
<SteveA> the guys in brazil are having an irc issue that maybe you can help with
<Seveas> #ubuntu-br?
<SteveA> there's an office with 5 or 6 people who want to be on this channel, and about 8 in total 
<SteveA> they have a single dynamic IP address for the office
<SteveA> and freenode servers keep k-lining them
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> too bad it's dynamic :/
<SteveA> beacuse they all appear to join from the same place on the same channel at the same time
<SteveA> yeah.
<SteveA> fixed ones cost R$$$$
<SteveA> they all get identified
<SteveA> with nickserv
<SteveA> is there anything that can be done?
<Seveas> maybe, are they all in #ubuntu-br? 
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> this channel
<Seveas> ah ok
<SteveA> but there are others
<SteveA> like the canonical-related channels
<Seveas> If the IP range is narrow enough, I might get lilo to whitelist that range
<SteveA> i'll see if i can find out
<Seveas> can you give me a (few) nick(s) of affected people
<SteveA> apparently the class A varies.
<SteveA>  kiko, salgado, cprov
<Seveas> none of them online now
<SteveA> kiko is going to log the ip addresses for a while
<SteveA> and see how they vary
<Seveas> Maybe their ISP can give a more precise answer?
<SteveA> maybe.  their ISP is not very communicative 
<SteveA> it is the former goverment monopoly in brazil
<Seveas> well, RIPE may help :)
<SteveA> so has something of a monopoly position in most of the country
<Seveas> what is the name of the ISP?
<SteveA> telefonica, or something that sounds like that
<SteveA> * mpt (n=mpt@201-27-71-186.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #launchpad
<SteveA> mpt was either at that office, or at home
<SteveA> i'm not sure which
<Seveas> hmm, that is 201.27/16
<Seveas> I'm not sure whether lilo will whitelist such a large range
<mdke> can they use some kind of proxy?
<Seveas> if they are irssi users, I might be able to give them a shell account on the same server as Ubugtu is on
<mdke> good plan
<Seveas> or a dircproxy if they set it up themselves ;)
<Seveas> and a whitelist for 3 IP addresses (the machine has 3) is doable
<Seveas> SteveA, could you suggest that to them
<OneFix_Work> I've got a question that I'm sure is asked here often, but I just placed an order for Ubuntu CDs from ShipIt...and I know it says 4-6 weeks, but does it usually take that long or are they generally faster?
<Seveas> OneFix_Work, launchpad and shipit are not related (except that shipit uses launchpad logins)
<SteveA> Seveas: thanks, i'll pass that along.
<Seveas> SteveA, the dircproxy can be used with any irc client btw ;)
<OneFix_Work> Seveas: oh, ok thanks
<lifeless> OneFix_Work: they are generally that long
#launchpad 2006-11-27
<BenC> is lp choking or is it me?
<yankees26> its choking
* BenC performs the heimlich
<yankees26> i have reason to  believe its a hot dog stuck in the throat
<BenC> looks like whatever it was got dislodged
<BenC> maybe feed it smaller bites, or pre-chew it's food in the future :)
<ajmitch> no, it still seems to be rather slow here, taking a couple of minutes at least to load a page :)
<bluefoxicy> is there anything I should particularly know about creating something so it can easily be shifted into a launchpad module?
* bluefoxicy wants to write something independent as a proof of concept; but some of it may be useful later
<mpt> bluefoxicy, what do you mean by "a Launchpad module"?
<bluefoxicy> mpt:  I don't know, I don't seem to have the source for launchpad so I'm guessing ;)
<bluefoxicy> mpt:  I am considering, possibly, doing a quick sketch of how something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReportsTagging would work
<bluefoxicy> eh I have a paper to finish, I'll worry about this later.
<jamesh> BjornT: thanks for retrieving that bug description.
<BjornT> jamesh: no problem. +edit still worked, so it wasn't hard.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73419 in launchpad "Allow locking of bug descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73419
<jamesh> BjornT: I guessed you'd done something like that.  Good thinking :)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73420 in launchpad "We attempt to render ridiculously large chunks of user input" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73420
<jamesh> maybe we could refuse bug comments containing the text "ProblemType: Crash" :)
<mpt> jamesh, why would I get "ImportError: cannot import name testutil" (from importd.tests)?
<jamesh> mpt: update the sourcecode/ subtrees?
<mpt> Is there a quick way of updating all of them? :-)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73421 in launchpad "Feature: Revert to old state" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73421
<jamesh> depends on how you created them
<jamesh> I use lightweight checkouts for them against the rocketfuel-built tree, which means a simple "bzr update" is all that's needed
<mpt> In this case, as a lightweight checkout
<mpt> bzr update from sourcecode/?
* mpt tries that
<jamesh> from each sourcecode/foo directory
<mpt> darn
<jamesh> how do you normally update the subtrees?
<mpt> When someone mails launchpad@ and says "You need to update your X subtree", I go into that directory and use bzr pull
<mpt> I haven't used bzr update before
<mpt> Ok, "bzr update" for every subtree says it's up to date, but I still get the error
<jamesh> mpt: if you aren't using checkouts for the subtrees, then "bzr update" won't do anything (the trees will be up to date with themselves)
<jamesh> mpt: so use "bzr pull" then
<mpt> This whole working directory is a lightweight checkout
<mpt> So why wouldn't the sourcecode/ subdirectory consist of checkouts?
<mpt> er, this whole branch, I mean
<jamesh> mpt: your launchpad tree may be a lightweight checkout -- whether the trees under sourcecode/ are lightweight checkouts would depend on how you created them
<jamesh> if you copied them from rocketfuel-built, then they'd be standalone trees
<mpt> ahhh
<mpt> Who has DB access other than stub?
<mpt> jamesh, do you?
<jamesh> don't seem to
<jamesh> (I did back when I was doing the bug imports, but not any more)
<mpt> So what's the procedure for spammers when stub is asleep? :-/
<jamesh> email
<jamesh> is it urgent?
<mpt> Yes, bug 1 is being vandalized
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<jamesh> lifeless might be able to help
<jamesh> mpt: I get a static page for that bug ;)
<jamesh> mpt: the admins probably have access, but might not know what to do
<mpt> crappity
<mpt> but, yay for it being stopped for now
<lifeless> whats up
<lifeless> mpt: stub, all the admins, and I
<mpt> lifeless, I was just belatedly concerned about the spamming of bug 1, but bug 1 is now static and the offender seems to have been deleted
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<mpt> so, never mind
<mpt> Alas, I predicted this a few days ago, but that was too late :-P
<lifeless> heh
<mpt> bug 73122
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73122 in malone "Need strategy for stopping pandemonium in individual bug reports" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73122
<mpt> Ugh, why do I get a conflict when merging sourcecode/bzr/?
<mpt> Text conflict in bzrlib/tests/test_hashcache.py
<jamesh> why are you merging?
<lifeless> do a pull --overwrite mpt
<mpt> "bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged"
<mpt> oh
<mpt> darn
<mpt> I already merged and committed zope/, I hope that doesn't matter
<mpt> Oh, I suppose I could just pull --overwrite that one too
<lifeless> mpt: yes, you should
<jamesh> mpt: in general, you shouldn't have to commit in the subtrees unless you're making changes to them
<lifeless> mpt: unless you are developing on one of these branches
<mpt> Now I have 3 "can't delete bzrlib/<something> because it is not empty" conflicts
<mpt> (After reverting and --overwriting)
<lifeless> mpt: delete them by hand, 
<lifeless> mpt: 'bzr st' should show nothing when you are done
<mpt> oh, it's just .pyc
<lifeless> spiv: how goes it ?
<mpt> Yay, now I have a different error
<mpt> "No module named urlutils"
<jamesh> mpt: have you updated your bzr?
<mpt> yes
<jamesh> bzrlib.urlutils is in the newer bzr
<mpt> The saved location is on chinstrap, though
<mpt> Is it more up to date on devpad?
<jamesh> of course.
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> stub: ping
<ddaa> Hello there
<ddaa> SteveA: jamesh: spiv: lifeless: ping
<lifeless> gnip
<ddaa> Meeting?
<lifeless> indeed
<carlos> mornin
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi ddaa
<lifeless> review meeting in 12 minutes
<lifeless> review meeting time
<SteveA> me
<lifeless> sorry I'm a litle slow, massive headache
<BjornT> hi
<spiv> I thought "so" came after "me"? ;)
<jamesh> hi
<SteveA> spiv: yes, "fa" first
<lifeless> == Agenda ==
<lifeless>  * Roll call
<lifeless>  * Queue status.
<lifeless>  * Whitespace cleanup
<lifeless> * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (was on LP meeting agenda)
* spiv wonders where "hi" lands in the octave
<SteveA> at the top
<SteveA> the very top
<lifeless> the queue is very big right now
<lifeless> how are you guys going with the backlog ?
<lifeless> SteveA suggests that you all look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/ [presumably in case you have forgotten where it is :)] 
<SteveA> I was actually thinking of the wiki page
<SteveA> but still, I think it's useful to have a call to focus in a meeting
<SteveA> I think we should consider a new meeting time, so francis and salgado can be here
<lifeless> we can consider that
<lifeless> I'll send mail tomorrow
<SteveA> thanks
<lifeless> for now though..
<lifeless> spiv: you have 3 > 20 days in the queue. when are they going to be reviewed ?
<lifeless> jamesh: you also have 3 > 20 days..
<lifeless> SteveA: your pyrex branches will be reallocated as soon as either spiv or jamesh indicate a preference to do it.
<spiv> Immediately, basically.  I have half of a (follow-up) review for ddaa's import-svn-safety written.
<jamesh> I
<jamesh> 'm working through my oldest two.  Will send out soon.  Will work on more tomorrow
<spiv> And the other two look short, I expect to have them done tomorrow morning at the latest.
<lifeless> cool.
<jamesh> I'd like to knock some of my other reviews off before accepting the pyrex branch.
<lifeless> I realise its a heavy load right after all hands... effect and cause.
<lifeless> spiv: how do you feel about pyrex ?
<spiv> I'm happy to take it.
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless>  * whitespace cleanup
<lifeless> this is an item from some time back, jamesh was going to raise at the regular lp meeting.
<lifeless> jamesh: ?
<jamesh> spiv: If you haven't gotten to it by the time I've cleared out my queue, I can look at the pyrex branch.
<jamesh> lifeless: I think this is old.  This was brought up a few weeks back (before allhands), and everyone agreed to the change.
<spiv> jamesh: thanks, I'll punt it to you if it starts going stale.
<lifeless> jamesh: ok.
<lifeless>  * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (was on LP meeting agenda)
<lifeless> jamesh: you added this. over to you
<jamesh> SteveA asked me to add it
<lifeless> SteveA: ?
<jamesh> I think this was basically what we were discussing earlier
<SteveA> yeah.
<SteveA> we want people to make smaller branches to review
<SteveA> divide their work into smaller chunks to land on mainline
<SteveA> so a reviewer can see the correspondence between tests and interfaces and gui and code
<SteveA> people will need help with this, so encourage calls to discuss how they'll break up the work
<SteveA> encourage agreeing a written plan on this, if it will help
<SteveA> I'm sure you'll have other ideas too
<SteveA> done
<lifeless> I agree with the goals
<lifeless> not thinking well right now - headache as I mentioned.
<lifeless> I suggest we all mull on this and discuss next week
<lifeless> any other business - unless folk have comments on this now ?
<lifeless> 5
<lifeless> 4
<lifeless> spiv: can you please assign the pyrex branches to yourself
<spiv> ok
<lifeless> 3
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> 2
<spiv> The suspense is killing me.
<lifeless> 0
<lifeless> meeting over, thanks for coming
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad.log
* carlos -> lunch
<SteveA> matsubara: hi.  are you expecting kiko to be in soon?
<matsubara> Hi SteveA, let me ask Taciana. I arrived yesterday and haven't seen him yet.
<xerxas> Hi all 
<xerxas> I would lke to request an "ambassador role" for packages 
<xerxas> following discussions on  #ubuntu-classroom 
<carlos> xerxas: I think you should ask at #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> carlos: he just got sent here from #ubuntu-classroom with the open day
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> to launchpad?
<Hobbsee> yes
<carlos> ok, then I'm not the right person to answer....
<xerxas> Hobbsee,  thanks :) 
<carlos> cprov: ?
<cprov> carlos: hey
<kiko> hello warriors of bug #1
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<LarstiQ> heh
<somerville32> Wrong channel :)
<xerxas> is there a launchpad developper ? 
<kiko> there are many
* somerville32 points at kiko.
<kiko> it's not like highlander
<xerxas> <xerxas> I would lke to request an "ambassador role" for packages 
<xerxas> <xerxas> following discussions on  #ubuntu-classroom 
<xerxas> sabdfl and seb128 agrees with that 
<kiko> tell me all about it
<xerxas> what should I do so that request is not lost ? 
<xerxas> kiko,  an ambassador role is like a mainteners except the ambassador reports bugs upstream 
<xerxas> and develop good contacts with the upstream team
<xerxas> kiko,  is there anything more you want ? 
<kiko> xerxas!!!
<xerxas> (this role is within malone only, If I understand correclty ) 
<xerxas> kiko,  !!!! 
<xerxas> :)
<kiko> xerxas, so, that's a fabulous idea, and one that mdz and I have discussed many times
<xerxas> and so ? 
<kiko> so
<xerxas> is it going to happen ? or what should I do so that it's being done soon or late ? 
<kiko> here's a question for you: what does this differ from becoming a package bug contact?
<xerxas> this is a questions for sabdfl  and seb128  probably :) 
<xerxas> maybe the bug contact could filter questions from ubunteros to the ambassador 
<xerxas> the ambassador have more an upstream role, the bug contact probably a downstream role 
<xerxas> but that's only my point of view 
<kiko> xerxas, shouldn't the "ambassador" get notifications of upstream bugs?
<xerxas> maybe 
<kiko> xerxas, because if so, we could just have the ambassador be the bug contact for the upstream product
<xerxas> probably 
<kiko> that that's all!
<kiko> then the only thing necessary is to add a packaging link
<kiko> and everything works as expected
<kiko> hello mdz
<kiko> speak of the devil
<xerxas> sabdfl, are you here ? 
<xerxas> can you see a difference between the "package bug contact" and "package ambassador role" ? 
<xerxas> aside the name :)
<kiko> xerxas, I think the ambassador role can use the launchpad bug contact functionality to function
<kiko> the other part I think is important is to make clear what the ambassador should do
<xerxas> kiko,  I'm not a launchpad master 
<kiko> i.e. to have a documented process
<mdz> kiko: morning
<kiko> xerxas, that's fine -- we're here to help!
<xerxas> kiko, I were attending the ubuntu-classroom , seb128 where talking about an ambassador for package 
<xerxas> I suggested this appears in launchpad, and that's all 
<kiko> I see now
<kiko> I think that's a great idea.
<seb128> kiko: the idea is to have a "point of contact" for a package
<seb128> somebody upstream could mail when he wants to speak about its software and how it's packaged
<kiko> seb128, would he also do bug forwarding, or is that separate?
<sabdfl> xerxas: i would see the ambassador as a more general point of contact between ubuntu and the upstream
<xerxas> seb128, thanks for clarifyng 
<seb128> kiko: no, not bug forwarding
<kiko> ah, okay.
<sabdfl> for example, its often useful for us to know *which* version of a package is the best to aim for in a particular ubuntu release
<kiko> that's indeed different.
<seb128> rather pointing the person in contact with upstream
<xerxas> sabdfl, that's pretty much my point of view, ambassador is upstream, bug contact is downstream (ubunteros) 
<kiko> I see.
<xerxas> kiko,  is that ok ? 
<xerxas> did you got It ? 
<xerxas> am I suppose to make a feature request anywhere ? 
<kiko> xerxas, I still need to think a bit more about what launchpad could do to help you
<xerxas> ok 
<kiko> is it just having an "Upstream ambassador" slot?
<xerxas> yes, think so 
<kiko> what would this slot do?
<sabdfl> kiko: yes, together with the means to work with that group as a community (i.e. mail them)
<sabdfl> this is the "adopt and upstream" thing, i think
<kiko> sabdfl, all the ambassadors of all packages, and the individual ambassador by package name?
<sabdfl> yes, i imagine that would do it :-)
<kiko> sabdfl, the adopt an upstream thing I specifically envisioned assisting bug reporters moving bugs upstream
<kiko> so this is different
<kiko> I think it's a good idea
<kiko> but wonder if we couldn't conflate the two and get two hits for the price of one
<xerxas> have to go guys 
<xerxas> bye ! 
<gnomefreak> i just started a spec for LP on package ambassadors here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/package-ambassador the wiki isnt done yet but i will continue on it sometime today. 
<sabdfl> i think we already have upstream bug contacts
<kiko> hey gnomefreak 
<gnomefreak> hi kiko 
<sabdfl> so the adopt-an-upstream idea was to be a general ambassador
<kiko> we do have upstream bug contacts but it's not clear that they are the people to be notified when we want to forward bug reports to an upstream bugtracker
<gnomefreak> they dont ever seem real active with bugs that i have seen
<gnomefreak> mainly with bugs the qa team does most of it but we rarely ever contact upstream we just send bugs upstream
<YoussefAssad> would it make sense to write a job description (but call it something more acceptable) for the sake of clarity for that role, ambassador?
<YoussefAssad> My $DEITY, there's a HOWTO on encouraging women?
<kiko> yeah, the spec should definitely have a job description.
<YoussefAssad> Could probably draft something
<YoussefAssad> Anyone else doing work which would overlap that?
<kiko> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/package-ambassador
<ddaa> matsubara: oh my... was this interesting! https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/600
<ddaa> there is no bound to what people with too much free time can achive
<YoussefAssad> kiko: yes, I saw that. Bit thin on detail though (which, admittedly, could be a desirable state)
<kiko> YoussefAssad, luckily it's a wikipage! :)
<YoussefAssad> free time? What is free time?
<YoussefAssad> kiko: I can take a hint! :) Okay, let me see what I can whip up in a day or two
<SteveA> ddaa: I'd suggest that drawing attention to worthless abuse on a public channel plays to the intention of the abuser.
<danilos> ddaa: that looks like macedonian ;)
<YoussefAssad> so there'd essentially be an ambassador per package? Where one person could map to multiple ambassadorial posts, of course
<ddaa> SteveA: I just find this one so extreme it's funny.
<kiko> I did too
<kiko> I wonder what he meant though
<kiko> which site?
<YoussefAssad> I'm looking at this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/launchpadambassadors   and wondering if there's a spec spec, or if I can just run in there and append sections pertinent to an eventual SoW/JD for the ambassadorial role
<jordi> danilos: hey
<danilos> jordi: heey pretty boy, how's it going?
<jordi> danilos: if you're going to be around for some more time, there's the Rosetta session in 1.5 hours.
<jordi> there'll be a Q+A session after I dump my text; if you can be around for extra support, that'd be good :)
<danilos> jordi: sure, though I am not sure I understand what you mean by "Rosetta session"
<danilos> :)
<jordi> Ubuntu Open Week
<jordi> dude
<kiko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<kiko> danilos, wake up
<danilos> jordi: ah, right
* jordi winks danilos 
<danilos> kiko: kiss me to wake me up :)
* kiko blows a rabid kiss to danilos 
<danilos> ah, yuck, now I am woken up :)
<YoussefAssad> heh
<jordi> it sucks that just 2 hours before your talk your wireless thingy blows up and you have to doo all the session in a not so comfy table
<YoussefAssad> Listen, question people if you don't mind. Is there a format for specs on the wiki which is preferred^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H insisted upon?
<kiko> there's a specification template
<danilos> jordi: tell me about it: I had my phone line supposedly changed to ISDN today, but it turned out completely broken, and my ADSL is not working, so I am now connected via my old ISP, and if I don't want to re-set-up everything, this means cable as well
<jordi> heh
<YoussefAssad> yes, I see it nicely laid out here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/launchpadambassadors . I'm just wondering if I should append a morevdetailed role description there, or if structure nazis would persecute me
<jordi> you're back to isdn?
<jordi> wtf?
<danilos> jordi: no, wifi internet
<danilos> jordi: the speed is fine, but this ISP breaks a lot, and my ap is not set-up to share that connection, so I have to plug cable in
<YoussefAssad> is it normal for Canonical to keep people waiting three days for information about commercial support, incidentally?
<YoussefAssad> there's a chap on #ubuntu-marketing sitting on a 50 node ubuntu HA cluster who apparently wants to buy support
<SteveA> ubuntu-marketing is not the best way to get in contact with commercial support
<YoussefAssad> I know, he was in there to see if the marketing people would be interested in documenting his cluster
<YoussefAssad> He apparently sent an inquiry using an online form. Anyhow, what do I care, I'm with Grameen, not Canonical!
<YoussefAssad> dinnertime
<SteveA> YoussefAssad: he wanted to buy support, or get documentation?
<SteveA> I'm confused
<AlinuxOS> hello all, is there new version of rosetta in some time ?
<kiko> SteveA, documenting his cluster as a case study.
<YoussefAssad> SteveA: jerom1 is the nick if you're curious
<YoussefAssad> SteveA: Being in #ubuntu-marketing was for a different thing entirely, asking if his cluster was worth using for marketing purposes. Two distinct issues
<YoussefAssad> Dinner, really.
<kiko> hey SteveA 
<kiko> ddaa, ping?
<carlos> kiko: ping
<kiko> carlos, yes?
<carlos> kiko: do you have some time for an UI problem I got while fixing translation reverting?
<kiko> sure. what's up?
<carlos> kiko: so, I'm adding too the 'locking' feature we talked for po imports to the translation form
<carlos> and I'm not completely sure what's the best option to show a message to the user when someone else changed a string while they were translating
<carlos> with our current UI
<kiko> carlos, so the workflow is: user loads page, other user uploads, user posts page, boom, right?
<carlos> with TranslationReview UI it's quite easy, because I have a place for current translation, and another for the submitted value
<carlos> kiko: user uploads or other user submits
<kiko> ah, ok
<carlos> kiko: but yeah, that's the idea
<kiko> right.
<kiko> and you want to display these conflicting changes specially, right?
<carlos> the problem is how to represent current translation + submitted value
<carlos> yeah
<YoussefAssad> erm, the package ambassadors; wouldn't their role overlap with ubuntu packge maintainers to an extent?
<carlos> the current value would appear as Currently used without changes
<carlos> but there is no way to detect which one is selected in this context
<carlos> from the UI perspective
<kiko> how about: /!\ Another user submitted a modification to this string while you were editing it. Please review the change below and modify as necessary.
<carlos> so we lose what they submitted
<kiko> do we lose it?
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> 'review change below'
<kiko> right
<carlos> I thought you mean to revert the textarea content to the active translation
<kiko> well.. you could do that too. I'm not sure what the option is; just suggesting warning the user is a good idea
<carlos> well, I already know that is a good idea to show a warning ;-)
<carlos> another option would be
<carlos> to leave it as I have it right now
<carlos> which sucks a bit
<carlos> and wait for TranslationReview to get a less sucky UI
<carlos> so I don't expend time in a UI that will be die with TranslationReview (but that will be good for the users)
<carlos> so I could say: 'Please, review the suggestions and submit the form again if you prefer to use your changes'
<carlos> kiko: what do you think?
<kiko> hold on
<carlos> ok
<carlos> kiko: ?
<carlos> I need to leave
<carlos> kiko: please, ping me if you have more input on the issue.
* carlos -> out
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73509 in rosetta ".po file export doesn't update cached files" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73509
<kiko> carlos, my feeling is that TranslationReview is going to land tomorrow, and therefore, there's no need to do work before that. If it's not landing tomorrow, well, we have a lot of chatting to do.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73519 in rosetta "Change translations to approved post membership acceptance to translation team" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73519
<tonyyarusso> jordi: here
<jordi> ok
<jordi> so, tonyyarusso wants to learn more about our plans to support dialects
<tonyyarusso> Indeed I do :)
<jordi> tonyyarusso: just to have some background, I'm one of the main Catalan translators,
<jordi> but, oh no! am Valencian
<tonyyarusso> Otherwise I think the Elders will be at my throat...
<jordi> so being able to produce ca@valencia translations easily from the existing ca translations would be rad
<jordi> what's your usecase?
<tonyyarusso> I'm not actually a speaker (yet), but am trying to get a translation effort started for Anishinaabe (Known in English as Ojibwe (various spellings).  Also related to Odawa, Mississauga, and Cree, and less closely, Algonquin.
<jordi> so you want to translate to Ojibwe, Odawa, etc. reusing as much as possible?
<tonyyarusso> This is an indigenous language in Canada and the United States, I believe the 4th most spoken or so.
<tonyyarusso> Actually, it's worse than that.
<tonyyarusso> By some arguments Odawa is a dialect of Ojibwe, others say it's a separate language.  Regardless, there are many dialects _within_ Ojibwe, on top of it's relations to other languages.
<tonyyarusso> The amount of difference between things varies.
<jordi> okay, complicated scenario it is :)
<jordi> so what would you expect from rosetta?
<tonyyarusso> The separate language/dialect line is fuzzy, but no matter how you slice it there is a huge number of subdivisions to be considered.
<tonyyarusso> I'm trying to limit my scope: I won't worry about Cree or Algonquin, but probably include Odawa.
<tonyyarusso> Given that, I need probably 5 or so dialects - lemme check my book here
<jordi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/similar-languages
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/57925
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57925 in rosetta "Request: Cascading Translations" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
<jordi> tonyyarusso: have a look at those
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, we have Northern, South-Eastern, Central, Plains, and Chippewa recognized as the significant dialectical areas.
<tonyyarusso> ok
<tonyyarusso> Sometimes it's just a matter of one different letter in spelling, for others (esp newer words) the word may be completely different ("computer" for example)
<jordi> right
<tonyyarusso> jordi: btw, the similar languages linked wiki page isn't available to me
<jordi> so a workflow would be you translate to one of the languages, and then derive
<jordi> tonyyarusso: oh, right
<tonyyarusso> It would be nicer if they could be developed in a parallel manner.
<tonyyarusso> For instance, you tell LP all of the dialects for your language, and then when translating strings have (in this case) 5 rows to input.
<jordi> maybe you can describe what your workflow would be like in the bug reporty
<jordi> that'll help us when implementing
<tonyyarusso> If three of the rows are the same, just copy and paste them there, rather than having to go to a separate language page
<tonyyarusso> I'll do that.
<jordi> I see
<jordi> that should be doable
<jordi> I really hate that the specs are public, and all of them have a "Read More" link which isn't public.
<jordi> I might bring that up formally for our next meeting
<tonyyarusso> People are working on standardizing the language, but dialects are a very touchy subject culturally, so I certainly don't want to offend anyone by not having theirs, but there's no good way of avoiding it as it stands now.
<jordi> yeah, it's a hot issue
<jordi> tell me... :/
<tonyyarusso> So you said it's a low priority - what kind of time frame are we talking about?
<danilos> jordi: "bring it up" means putting it in MeetingAgenda ;)
<jordi> tonyyarusso: it's very difficult to estimate
<jordi> months, I'd say
<jordi> danilos: because, what he wants (three languages at once) wouldn't fit in 2h-slot right? :)
<danilos> jordi: guess not; it's a workflow that's not anything we have actually considered so far
<jordi> yeah
<jordi> and just implementing three boxes would be a bit lame. There should be some specific features like checkboxes to copy across all variants
<jordi> ie, to avoid massive cut+paste
<danilos> jordi: well, now that I think of it, I'd prefer if it was one "general" input box, and then you add only differences to other dialects (i.e. "Show input box for this dialect since it differs")
<danilos> but, a couple of spec-voip-sessions would probably be due
<jordi> yeah
<tonyyarusso> danilos: I like that idea.  Heck, if you could just sed stuff that would work for some things.
<dabear_> hi
<dabear_> I am experiencing some timeouts on launchpad...
<dabear_> has happened about three times the last hour
<matsubara> dabear_: which page? do you have the OOPS id?
<dabear_> sorry, not anymore :p happened while translating gaim and deluge to norwegian..
<matsubara> dabear_: it's likely to be bug 30602, but without the oops id I can't say for sure.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<lotusleaf> hello, anyone awake?
<lotusleaf> I made a mistake with my first time using launchpad and made https://launchpad.net/products/kdar and would like it removed because kdar already exists in another place, I was going to file a bug and didn't know where to look but it's here https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdar/+bug/62699
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<flacoste> lotusleaf: file a support request for that at https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addticket
<flacoste> one of the launchpad admin will take care of this
<lotusleaf> flacoste: thank you very much =)
<lifeless> spiv: there are 3 pyrex branches
<lifeless> lotusleaf: that does not look like a mistake to me ..
<lifeless> lotusleaf: why do you want it removed ?
<lotusleaf> lifeless: no? oh, I thought it was because kdar is mentioned here https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdar/+bug/62699
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<lotusleaf> lifeless: because I thought kdar already exist @ url I just referenced above ^^
<lifeless> lotusleaf: products/kdar is the 'upstream', and 'distros/ubuntu/+source' is the 'in-distribution' records
<lifeless> its appropriate to have both, so that we can report on things like 'a new upstream release has happened but is not in the distro'
<lotusleaf> lifeless: oh, really?
<lotusleaf> lifeless: so I didn't make a mistake, then, after all? :)
<lifeless> not at all. How can we make it more clear that we want this ?
<lifeless> you should go to https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/+launchpad 
<lotusleaf> lifeless: thank you for this kind advice
<lotusleaf> lifeless: ok I am there, what next
<lifeless> this is part of KDE right ?
<lotusleaf> lifeless: how may I withdraw my support request to have that removed ?
<lotusleaf> lifeless: yes
<lifeless> let me see now, give me a second
<lotusleaf> sure, thank you =)
<lifeless> kdar is different to karchiver right ?
<flacoste> lotusleaf: to remove your request, simply go to it, add a message explaining that isn't needed anymore and click 'I Solved My Problem'
<lotusleaf> yes, karchiver is different
<flacoste> s/add/enter/
<lotusleaf> flacoste: thank you
<flacoste> my pleasure :-)
<lifeless> I'm just seeing about linking this to the kde project
<lifeless> but the field seems to have disappeared on me
<lotusleaf> lifeless: http://directory.fsf.org/kArchiver.html
<lifeless> lotusleaf: go to https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/+edit
<lifeless> put kde in the project field
<lotusleaf> lifeless: k
<lifeless> that should make it inherit the KDE bugtracker settings
<lotusleaf> ok
<lotusleaf> that much is done
<lifeless> yup - see the right hand side bar
<lifeless> 'Bug Tracker'
<lotusleaf> yes
<lifeless> now, when someone forwards the bug upstream, malone knows how to fetch updates for it
<lotusleaf> ah, I see, thank you =)
<lifeless> if you click on 'trunk'
<lotusleaf> thanks for walking me though it
<lotusleaf> ok, clicked on trunk
<lifeless> sorry, my link is way slow
<lotusleaf> np
<lifeless> and then edit source
<lotusleaf> ok
<lifeless> you can put in the SVN details.
<lifeless> and if you go to 'edit series details'
<lifeless> you can tell launchpad how to find new releases using the 'Release URL pattern' field
<lotusleaf> which would be http://svn.sourceforge.net/kdar
<lotusleaf> right?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> you need to name the branch
<lifeless> probably .../trunk
<lotusleaf> ah, I haven't used svn before, only cvs, and only briefly =)
<lotusleaf> so I'd add http://kdar.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kdar/trunk/
<lotusleaf> ?
<lifeless> no, it looks like sourceforge do something d ifferent
<lotusleaf> ok, may I omit this information then?
<lifeless> thats the WEB ui for sourceforge svn.
<lifeless> sure, you can omit it
<lotusleaf> yeah
<lotusleaf> ok thx but thx for covering this part
<lotusleaf> is there anything else I should do for it at this point?
<lifeless> everything is optional
<lifeless> I was just pointing you at things that help launchpad do more for you
<lifeless> :)
<lotusleaf> and I appreciate it very much, thank you =) So each package should be listed at launchpad twice, then?
<lotusleaf> one in products/ and the other in distros/ubuntu ?
<lifeless> lotusleaf: oh yes, I forgot one important link to make.
<lotusleaf> lifeless: go for it =)
<lifeless> from https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/trunk
<lifeless> click on 'link to ubuntu package'
<lotusleaf> ok
<lifeless> the svn URL for sourceforge kdar looks like : https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kdar/trunk
<lifeless> put 'kdar' in the source package field ;)
<lotusleaf> oh, so just kdar?
<lifeless> yup, its the first url segment after '+source/' on the distro side
<lotusleaf> simple enough =D
<lifeless> I've put the svn url in for you
<lotusleaf> ok done
<lifeless> I tested it by doing 'svn ls https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kdar/trunk'
<lotusleaf> thx =) =)
<lifeless> np
<lotusleaf> lifeless: I appreciate you walking me though this, it was very kind of you =)
<lotusleaf> lifeless: and, it turns out my blunder was not a mistake at all =)
<lifeless> happy to help. Pass it forward :)
<lotusleaf> lifeless: indeed =)
<lifeless> and to answer the question, yes, each package should be listed twice - once in the distro, and once in products
<lotusleaf> lifeless: thanks =)
<lotusleaf> lifeless: I take it this is something that hasn't been done as frequently as desired?
<lifeless> they need that link - the last step - done, beforce launchpad knows they are related.
<lifeless> lotusleaf: well, its something that takes time, theres 16000 packages :). So if each person interested in a few packages takes the time to do it... its easy
<lotusleaf> lifeless: interesting, I should have to look into this. :)
<lifeless> I have to go now - see you later
<lotusleaf> lifeless: have a good one and again thank you =)
<lifeless> no probs. tchau.
#launchpad 2006-11-28
<flacoste> lifeless: you made a mistake on PendingReviews: you assigned your pending-reviews branch to yourself instead of jamesh like you said you did in your email
<lifeless> flacoste: heh, whups
<lifeless> a page-down error
<lifeless> flacoste: thanks for pointing it out
<flacoste> no problem
<aleka> any active users on?
<Burgundavia> anybody alive from the LP team
<Burgundavia> ?
<jamesh> Burgundavia: yeah.  What's up?
<Burgundavia> I answered my own question about difference in urls
<tristanb_> Hi guys
<tristanb_> apologies for my ignorance, but does Launchpad offer project hosting a la Sourceforce or Freshmeat?
<tristanb_> every project I look at on there seems to import to Bazaar from CVS or SVN hosted elsewhere, so I'm a bit confused
<spiv> tristanb_: you can host bzr branches on launchpad directly.
<spiv> e.g. bzr does that :)
<spiv> tristanb_: There's a summary of how to do this at https://code.launchpad.net/
<tristanb_> spiv: thanks... so does that include things like allowing people to download release tarballs/debs/RPMs?
<spiv> No, unfortunately.
<spiv> It's just bzr branch hosting at the moment, rather than release files.
<tristanb_> ah
<tristanb_> that's a shame :(
<tristanb_> Sourceforge it is then! :)
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
<ajmitch> hi mpt 
<Burgundavia> hey mpt, ajmitch
<ajmitch> feels like it's reboot time for some more testing
<SteveA> morning
<Nafallo> morning SteveA :-)
<jamesh> SteveA: I sent an email to the list about some possible traversal changes we might want now we've got mutliple domain names.  Have you considered some of these issues already?
<lifeless> jamesh: ping
<jamesh> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> see my pending-reviews patch ?
<jamesh> I got your email, but haven't looked at the patch yet
<lifeless> ok
<skwashd> hi all
<skwashd> is it just me or is launchpad half dead atm?
<SteveA> skwashd: does seem slow
<SteveA> stub: ping
<seb128> doesn't work for me
<seb128> it doesn't load anything
* SteveA calls ppl
* skwashd gets as far as the <title> loading but not much more :(
<skwashd> ok ... 3mins to load on about the 5th attempt ... SteveA maybe your call worked already ;)
<jamesh> skwashd: is it particular pages, or all pages?
<skwashd> jamesh: http://launchpad.net
<skwashd> sorry
<SteveA> hmm, seems responsive again now
<skwashd> https
<Fujitsu> Works for me...
<jamesh> maybe a problem with one app server?
<skwashd> yeah ... looks like the little gremlin has been put in the microwave
<seb128> jamesh: it was any bug page, back to normal now
<seb128> OOPS-332A434
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/332A434
<seb128> is one timeout I got
<SteveA> possibly a conflict with some conscript locking the database in some way
<SteveA> I'll ask stub to diagnose it
<lifeless> possibly
<seb128> grumpf
<lifeless> not a likely time for it
<seb128> it's still refusing to load that page
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libgnomeui/+bug/60052
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60052 in libgnomeui "i was working with synaptic and firefox on xubuntu and this error popped out" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<seb128> it's slow agaijn in fact
<seb128> or not
<skwashd> yeah i was about to say that
<SteveA> lifeless: would you take a look at the database to see if there's anything obvious locking there?
<skwashd> it seems like one of the servers is in a DC and the other is in some geek's room ... circa 1993 ... 14.4 dialup ;)
<jamesh> seb128's page has a crash report, which hits the fmt:text-to-html performance problem
<lifeless> there is a poimport running
<mpt> hello lifeless 
<lifeless> and a vacuum in progress
<SteveA> poimport and vacuum at the same time isn't so good
<mpt> lifeless, on bzr pqm-submit I get "bzr: ERROR: please run connect() first"
<mpt> How do I run connect()?
<lifeless> mpt: I'm busy right now, can you chat with jamesh or spiv about this please.
<mpt> ok
<lifeless> thanks
<mpt> spiv?
<lifeless> SteveA: yes.
<skwashd> SteveA: ok ... i will do something else for a while :)
<lifeless> ok, the vacuum is cancelled
<jamesh> mpt: that's probably an error from smtplib (problem talking to the SMTP server)
<lifeless> has that helped ?
<mpt> spiv, never mind, it mysteriously worked a second time
<stub> SteveA: pong
<skwashd> lifeless: uymmm ... not really here
* lifeless hands over to stub 
<seb128> lifeless: still seems slow to me
<lifeless> stub: lp is on go slow
<lifeless> stub - poimport is running, and vacuum; I just killed the vacuum but does not seme to have helped
<lifeless> it might be the textfmt bug though
<stub> You killed the vacuum?
<lifeless> stub: yes
<jamesh> seb128: if you go to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libgnomeui/+bug/60052/+edit and edit out the base-64 encoded crash dump, the bug page should load okay again
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60052 in libgnomeui "i was working with synaptic and firefox on xubuntu and this error popped out" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<stub> I have no idea how that affects 8.1 :-( autovacuum is supposed to run all the time...
<seb128> jamesh: thank you for the hint
<lifeless> stub: gleep. 
<seb128> I'll try when launchpad accepts to load a page again ;)
<jamesh> seb128: it's the new word breaking code -- it doesn't scale well to 200k character long words
<seb128> we should lart users doing that :)
<seb128> like don't accept the bug
<lifeless> stub: I killed the actual per-db vacuum, not the background task
<seb128> and suggest gently to attach that 
<lifeless> stub: it starts them up automatically
<stub> yer - session database is being vacuumed, so looks ok.
<jamesh> seb128: apport tells the user to attach the crash report, and the +filebug page doesn't have an "attach file" box: Some percentage of users will paste it in the description.
<stub> There is some process connected as the 'ro' user, doing something hairy. Don't know what it is though.
<lifeless> stub: right, so it was on launchpad_prod before
<lifeless> 8848 ?
<stub> cronjobs are running anyway - karma update happening now
<stub> The ro connection is gone now
<stub> Just publisher, cron stuff, and normal launchpad.
<stub> And things are snappy
<stub> So possibly triggered by whatever runs before the karma updater
* stub has a look
<stub> Just flag-expired-memberships which should be quick, and not running as the ro user.
<stub> Which leads me to suspect the publishing run doing something evil(er)
<stub> Perhaps the cronjobs conflicting with soyuz publisher. No way to tell now.
<stub> Oh... my mistake. No cronjobs - didn't look closely enough. it was just launchpad.
<stub> Mirror prober was running though at one point, so perhaps interfering with the publishing run.
<carlos> morning
<mpt> a-ha
<mpt> The latest-specifications portlet says "No specifications registered" only if there both are AND aren't any specifications
<mpt> jordi, did you see the request about adding wpmu for translation?
<jordi> mpt: not yet, rosetta list?
<jordi> I've been busy with the Open week
<jordi> let me open it up
<mpt> yes
<mpt> November 22
<mpt> oops, sorry, November 17
<jordi> hm, then I missed it last week
<mpt> (I received it on the 22nd for some reason)
<jordi> woops, so I moderated it, but didn't wait until it hit my mailbox
<jordi> man the amount of spam on this list is quite bad this days
<mpt> Well, think of it this way -- the better Free Software translation coverage becomes, the more people will use Free Software, the fewer computers will run Windows, the fewer computers will be botnet slaves, so the less spam you'll get :-)
<jordi> I love that POV :)
<jordi> replied
<jordi> Hungarian Magyar knyvtrak elibraries
<mpt> thanks
<jordi> I was about to approve that spam
<jamesh> so, I've fixed the word break algorithm to scale linearly with the number of characters in the word
<jamesh> for a 200000 character word, it brings the time down from 15.3s to 186ms
<jamesh> should fix the timeouts for pasted apport crash dumps
<mpt> well done!
<stu1> I'd opened a bug on this too
<stu1> I suggested having the code cap the number of characters in the string it is attempting to render to some very high but still renderable upper limit
<stub> (if len(foo) > 5000: foo = foo[:5000]  + ' ...'
<jamesh> stu1: your bug is a bit broader -- my change just pushes the maximum length we can realistically support out a bit
<stub> Might be worth doing at the same time never the less.
<stub> I'm not sure what the upper limit should be though. Maybe 5k, maybe 20k
<jamesh> it'd be worth checking what size texts we've got currently.
<jordi> danilos: can you have a look at Subject: Lock down upstream translations in the rosetta-users list?
<jordi> basically, "how to avoid divergent translations"
<jordi> do we have an Official plan to address this?
<jordi> I know about adding a filter, etc so they can easily be spotted and reverted
<danilos> jordi: carlos and I have already had some thoughts on this, need to check if we have a bug or spec regarding this (it looked so familiar when it popped up in yesterday's session as well)
<jordi> yep
<danilos> carlos: what are our plans re that? (i.e. things like adding "switch back to upstream translation" in review/translation interface?)
<stub> jamesh: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filexzof8g.html
<jamesh> stub: could you check how many of those messages for each size contain the string "ProblemType: Crash"?
<jamesh> stub: just wondering where the real long comments start and apport reports begin ...
<jamesh> "real long comments end and apport reports begin", even
<stub> There are 61 bugs with that string in the description whose desciptions are > 20k in length
<stub> Out of 656
<stub> So 1% of the silly descriptions
<stub> erm... 10%
<carlos> danilos: yes
<carlos> that + a filter to see the ones diverged
<jordi> carlos: noted, I'll reply accordingly
<jamesh> stub: I was thinking more a set of results with count(nullif(description like '%ProblemType: Crash%', true)) as an extra column
<jamesh> stub: to see the number of non apport dump descriptions at each size
<stub> jamesh: Not many. https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileoqvRAR.html
<stub> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file8XEh63.html
<jamesh> so, only a small handful for descriptions over 100k
<jamesh> still a handful for ones over 50k
<stub> Yup. But there is nothing to stop us getting more at this stage.
<jamesh> I was more thinking of this from the "how many legitimate messages may get truncated?" p.o.v.
<jamesh> where I'm ignoring the apport reports
<Keybuk> stub: around?  I need a duckie
<stub> I'm your ducky
<Keybuk> can you fix a user account for me
<Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/people/katie
<Keybuk> can you make that a real account, with an e-mail address of archive@ubuntu.com
<stub> Should the email address be private or public?
<Keybuk> doesn't matter
<Keybuk> it gets sent to changes anyway :)
<stub> Keybuk: done
<Keybuk> thanks
<Keybuk> cool, soyuz is much happier now
<SteveA> kiko: !
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73588 in launchpad-support-tracker "Ticket action page lacks link to the ticket overview." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73588
<ddaa> SteveA: watercooler!
* ddaa puts on funnel hat
<ddaa> watercooler is the key
* ddaa puts off funnel hat
<ddaa> I mean about those phone calls we should have between buddie teams
<ddaa> let's just ostentiously call them watercooler calls
<ddaa> i.e. it's not about status reports, fixing problems, getting in sync, etc. It's about having a watercooler
<ddaa> or maybe a coffee machine
<malcc> Coffee machines have many beneficial effects on productivity it's true
<SteveA> ddaa: hello
<SteveA> I'm not cool enough to be at a watercooler
<ddaa> witticisms aside
<ddaa> during this morning's conf call I saw two issues
<ddaa> 1. the need to have regular calls with _thumper_ and I, on no specific topic
<ddaa> 2. this very conf call was unfocused although very interesting, and that made it a bit awkyard around the end because there was a feeling that a meeting needs to achieve some decision
<kiko> ddaa, btw
<kiko> ddaa, why does bzr branching off /products/bugzilla take so long?
<ddaa> Since there seems to be a recognized need for unfocused calls, we need a way to frame them so the lack of focus is not a source of discomfort.
<kiko> funny
<SteveA> I think it was a focused call
<SteveA> with unfocused parts
<kiko> I have unfocused calls all the time and they are a source of comfort. :)
<ddaa> kiko: offhand, the answer is probably 1. lots of data 2. lots of roundtrips
<kiko> ddaa, would the smartserver improve that?
<kiko> ddaa, can we run the smartserver on a rogue port on the supermirror?
<SteveA> kiko: there's a plan formenting to get the smartserver running there
<kiko> fermenting too?
<ddaa> spiv should get some wiki page up by tonight
<SteveA> spiv is due to post that today
<ddaa> so, smartserver will help a bit with latency
<ddaa> ultimately, it should allow flatlined-bandwidth branching, but it's not there yet
<kiko> ah.
<ddaa> there are plans to address data size issues, using ghost-revisions and pass-through locations. Dunno about the timeline for this.
<ddaa> kiko: you can try "bzr checkout --lightweight", that should reduce the amount of downloaded data
<kiko> right
* ddaa workraves
<kiko> SteveA, lifeless: do you know anything about my suggestion for a dedicated importer box for the bzr team?
<SteveA> kiko: I just read it in an email.  That is all I know.
<kiko> ok.
<ddaa> kiko-fud: you want lennie
<ddaa> it's got a big head, a big stomach and big balls
<carlos> I need some help with timestamps in launchpad
<carlos> anyone with sometime to help me with this?
<carlos> BjornT, kiko-fud, jamesh, spiv?
<jamesh> carlos: what's the problem?
<kiko-fud> carlos, I'm out for a talk
<kiko-fud> ddaa, can you point j-a-meinel and poolie to it
<ddaa> just sent an email
<carlos> well, I'm getting CURRENT_TIMESTAMP AT TIME ZONE 'UTC' instead of dates
<carlos> even after commit 
<carlos> and I need to do some date checks 
<jamesh> you mean when reading back an SQLObject attribute?
<carlos> yes
<carlos> I think it's only an issue with tests
<jamesh> committing should invalidate all the cached attributes on an SQLObject
<carlos> I know, that's why I'm using:
<jamesh> however, you can manually resynchronise an object with its sync() method
<jamesh> which will flush any changes and get the field values from the db
<carlos>  >>> transaction.commit()
<carlos>     >>> flush_database_caches()
<carlos> isn't that what flush_database_caches does?
<jamesh> (as opposed to syncUpdate(), which just flushes changes to the db
<jamesh> are you holding a reference to the object over a commit?
<carlos> yes
<kiko-fud> that's "bad"
<jamesh> is this a ZopelessLayer test, or a LaunchpadFunctionalLayer test?
<carlos> pagetest
<carlos> it's not a broken transaction
<carlos> and I'm doing the commit just to get a valid date
<jamesh> okay.  The webapp does some weird things with SQLObject caches (it blows them away on each request)
<carlos> I thought it's only a problem when the transaction is aborted...
<jamesh> don't hold references to SQLObjects over transaction boundaries in the webapp or tests that use the webapp environment
<jamesh> (such as page tests)
<jamesh> see if that helps
<carlos> ok
<carlos> that makes the test more complex... but if that's the only way to use it...
<salgado> mpt, around?
<kiko-fud> is launchpad off?
<salgado> wfm
<kiko-fud> odd, nfm
<salgado> kiko-fud, how heavy do you think is the need for batching on the 1.0 product/project/distro search page?
<kiko-fud> salgado, it's expendable. nice to have but won't hold release for it.
<salgado> I'm not sure we can get batching if using the raw query stub suggested
<salgado> since the only API I can find is cursor.fetchmany() which only takes a size argument, not a start one
<flacoste> salgado: you need to take care of it yourself using LIMIT OFFSET in the SQL
<kiko-fud> right
<kiko-fud> salgado, are you smoking the wrong crack? :)
<salgado> yeah, the point is that I'm not sure it's worth 
<salgado> I'd have to write a SelectResults-like class to feed the batch code
<salgado> and in there re-implement a bunch of stuff from sqlobject
<kiko-afk> ddaa, ping?
<kiko-afk> salgado, hmm, can't you just get an iterable... mmmm
<kiko-afk> salgado, if it's hard just leave it.
<ddaa> kiko-afk: pong
<salgado> a lazy iterable, it'd have to be
<ddaa> kiko-afk: your nick management sucks
<SteveA> salgado: I misread that as a lazy irritable
<SteveA> then I read "management" on ddaa's line afterwards
<SteveA> and all I got was "lazy irritable management"
<SteveA> I think I'll go get a cup of hot tea
<salgado> heh
<flacoste> salgado: you might want to nag stevea and niemeyer for launchpad storm support
<flacoste> should make that kind of stuff easier to implement
<salgado> I hope so
<salgado> but since this is a 1.0 spec, I think it'd be better to just use a hard limit and somehow display a warning to the user that we found too many results
<niemeyer> salgado: What's the issue?
<salgado> hey niemeyer 
<salgado> https://launchpad.canonical.com/SearchingProjects
<salgado> we have this huge query on the bottom of that page
* niemeyer checks
<salgado> and we can't use SQLObject for that, since we're selecting columns with the same name but from different tables
<salgado> and AFAIU, our IDBICursor doesn't give us a lazy SelectResults-like object as the return value
<niemeyer> Hmmm
<niemeyer> Ok.. the lazy results is solved in Storm..
<niemeyer> Now, I'm not sure about what'd be the best way to turn that big union into an object. Is that what you're looking for?
<carlos> jamesh: same problem
<SteveA> flacoste: jamesh and niemeyer will be getting together early next year to work on storm in launchpad
<SteveA> niemeyer, jamesh: did you set a date for that yet?
<salgado> niemeyer, if I could feed that query into storm and get a lazy iterable back it should be all fine
<niemeyer> salgado: You can do it, of course
<carlos> jamesh: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileb9S823.html
<niemeyer> salgado: But isn't SQLObject able to do the same?
<carlos> that's the set of instructions executed
<niemeyer> salgado: I mean.. running a query by hand and getting results back should be feasible
<carlos> jamesh: pofile.importFromQueue modifies the pomsgset object
<niemeyer> SteveA: Nope.. no dates so far
<salgado> niemeyer, I can't use SQLObject for that since I'm not including all columns of all tables, so it can't generate an object from the data it gets from the DB
<niemeyer> SteveA: My suggestion is still first week of february
<salgado> I thought of using a view because then I could use an SQLObject to map that view
<carlos> jamesh: and pomsgset.isNewer has a couple of prints and one of those prints shows the SQL statement (it's not a direct field in pomsgset, but pomsgset.getSelection(index).date_reviewed)
<niemeyer> salgado: You can generate a query.. but isn't there a way to run the query straight into the connection (or close to it)?
<niemeyer> s/can/can't/
<niemeyer> salgado: In that specific case, using an object doesn't offer many advantages over getting a tuple of values.
<salgado> niemeyer, yeah, but that returns a list of dictionaries and what I want is a SelectResults-like object
<SteveA> niemeyer, jamesh: please get some firm dates sorted and get visas / tickets etc.
<niemeyer> salgado: Ah.. I see.. the result isn't an interator you mean
<niemeyer> iterator
<salgado> niemeyer, I want this to feed our batching code. I could feed a list into it, but it would defeat the purpose of the batching since all the rows would have been fetched already
<carlos> jamesh: calling selection.sync() just before using the object is enough to fix it
<carlos> I hate cache problems :-(
<niemeyer> salgado: Ok, got it
<niemeyer> salgado: Yeah, Storm allows you to do hand built queries in a more friendly way
<salgado> niemeyer, that's great. I think it's better for me to set a hard limit on the query now, and leave a note that this can be properly implemented once we get storm. :)
<niemeyer> carlos: Storm will fix that as well
<carlos> niemeyer: what's the roadmap for it?
* niemeyer becomes a marketer..
<carlos> at least, for it in launchpad...
<carlos> :-P
<niemeyer> carlos: For Storm, now - some months.. :)
<niemeyer> carlos: For Storm in Launchpad, we should get started in february
<carlos> is it already released or planned to be released outside the company?
<carlos> niemeyer: ok
<niemeyer> carlos: We were going to work on it in december, but we got caught on boring visa issues
<niemeyer> carlos: It is planned
<carlos> ok
* carlos is pondering to play with it for other personal projects
<giskard> hello * :)
<giskard> all translation made up on rosetta are copyright of?
<danilos> giskard: those who made them
<giskard> danilos, thank you!
<danilos> giskard: the only important bit is that canonical is allowed to redistribute them, and especially rosetta can put them as suggestions for any other project registered in launchpad
<sabdfl> good work in #ubuntu-classroom, kiko
<giskard> this is not a problem!
<kiko> thanks
<kiko> wow, that hurt
<kiko> my wrists are on fire!
<Neo|Laptop> Hmm, exactly what is launchpad?
<ddaa> Neo|Laptop: it is a web site for collaboration of free software developers and users.
<Neo|Laptop> ddaa: Ah, thanks. I noted someone registered on launchpad our software, but the user who did so isn't part of our team. I'm just wondering if this could become a problem (i.e. the user might try to claim that they are us)
<ddaa> We actually encourage this sort of thing, because registered products are useful for various things.
<ddaa> Generally, if an actual upstream developer wants to get ownership of the project, and if the user who first registered it is unresponsive, you can just ask a launchpad admin (in this chan) and we'll reassign it for you.
<SteveA> Neo|Laptop: there are some notices in Launchpad that say whether a project officially uses launchpad for various purposes, or whether it is just listed in launchpad
<ddaa> But it's more important to have the product registered by an active launchpad user than by some inactive "legitimate" person.
<Neo|Laptop> I see.
<a7p> hello everyone, kiko had a talk @ #ubuntu-classroom an one of his examples was https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libaio/+bug/27810 .. doesn't this bug have to be closed?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 27810 in libaio "libaio: We can't compile programs using it" [Unknown,Fix released]  
<matsubara> a7p: that question is better answered in #ubuntu-bugs
<a7p> matsubara, okay, thanks, I will ask there.
<matsubara> a7p: you're welcome
<kiko> hey flacoste 
<kiko> how are you doing?
<kiko> ddaa, ping?
<kiko> BjornT, ping?
<kiko> carlos, ping?
<carlos> kiko: pong
<kiko> carlos! sorry for abandoning you yesterday, I was in dire straits
<flacoste> hey kiko, i'm doing fine, when you have time this week, i would probably like a 15mins chat on short-term priority
<ddaa> kiko: poing
<carlos> kiko: don't worry, I found an alternative UI easy to implement
<carlos> kiko: what I don't understand is how's that you said that TranslationReview will land today...
<carlos> kiko: I need to answer Bjorn's review first
<carlos> and then apply your UI comments
<carlos> so we can deploy it
<kiko> flacoste, I'm here -- wanna ring my vonage number?
<kiko> ddaa, I'm getting into the mindframe of trying to deal with deleting bzr branches
<ddaa> glad to hear that
<kiko> ddaa, what is the cheapest possible way we could solve that (beyond doing nothing)
<flacoste> kiko: what's a vonage number? we can do this on IRC if you like
<carlos> kiko: I need to leave now
<flacoste> but I can also use a real phone if you miss the sound of my voice... altough it's still rusty from that SF cold
<kiko> carlos, okay!
<kiko> carlos, well, I'm really concerned with the time TR is getting through landing.
<ddaa> kiko: check this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+spec/delete-branches
<carlos> kiko: well, it's related to other tasks distracting me. I want to have everything done before leaving on Friday (I'm on holidays next week)
<kiko> carlos, I know.
<kiko> ddaa, thanks, looking into it.
<ddaa> kiko: once this spec is complete, the "cheapest way" is pretty much "everything except garbage collection"
<ddaa> arguably, it can be implemented and landed stepwise if the UI to actually delete branches is implemented last
<ddaa> but in terms of user experience, it just has to be a big chunk
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73637 in launchpad-support-tracker "Do not expire requests which are assigned to somebody" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73637
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73638 in launchpad-support-tracker "Add a reminder feature " [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73638
<kiko> so ddaa 
<kiko> about delete branches
<kiko> can you modify the spec to be a "10CentBranchRemoval" sort of thing?
<kiko> you can:
<kiko> - omit handling of vcs-imports 
<kiko> - omit garbage collection
<kiko> - omit any end-user UI (a button or script for an admin to run is fine for now)
<kiko> - omit undeletion
<kiko> ddaa, basically, making step 1 be the whole thing.
<ddaa> yes except, long as it is, it's not yet complete
<kiko> ddaa, can you elaborate?
<ddaa> Schema changes, UI changes, and To be determined
<ddaa> generally, deleting objects that may be used in foreign keys is pretty much unexplored territory in launchpad
<kiko> ddaa, maybe split the existing spec in two specs: basic and advanced removal?
<kiko> ddaa, but we're not suggesting deleting the objects
<kiko> just "hiding" them
<ddaa> same difference to the user
<kiko> it's the same thing indeed
<ddaa> if it's hidden an unaccessible is as good as deleted as far users can tell
<kiko> so I'm not sure what you're saying
<kiko> you seem to be agreeing with me :)
<ddaa> Mh... so... right
<ddaa> if we can use introspection to assert that an object is referenced in no foreign key (except in some specific tables), we can split it into "simple deletion", "advanced deletion" and "garbage collection".
<ddaa> Where the dependency implementation looks like: simple -> advanced, simple -> garbage
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> I think that initially though we just want a way of saying "hide branch X"
<kiko> and the set of steps you outlined in 1. sounds good enough to me
<ddaa> if it's really hidden it also requires relaxing of the unique name constraint
<ddaa> and if we want to allow users to do it, we need some UI to undelete, which may be tricky because it cannot rely on unique names anymore...
<kiko> ddaa, we can just automatically rename it to foo-deleted
<kiko> ddaa, I don't care about users doing it for now
<kiko> I think unique names are the way to go
<ddaa> mh...
<kiko> just rename deleted ones
<kiko> like we do with merged people
<ddaa> SteveA suggested "foo--deleted[-N] "
<ddaa> yeah double dash
<kiko> that's fine by me
<kiko> arch pimp all you like
<kiko> ddaa, does that sound workable
<ddaa> double dash is fine because it's not something that people are likely to unintentionally conflict with
<ddaa> failing to register or rename a branch because of a name conflict with a deleted branch would be... very confusing.
<ddaa> kiko: so
<kiko> dude
<kiko> NOBODY will EVER register a -deleted branch
<kiko> this sort of confusion already exists today
<ddaa> kiko: you understimate your users
<kiko> with person names because if you use -merged you get toast
<kiko> and it has /never/ happened!
<kiko>         # Append a -merged suffix to the account's name.
<kiko>         name = base = "%s-merged" % from_person.name.encode('ascii')
<kiko>         cur.execute("SELECT id FROM Person WHERE name = %s" % sqlvalues(name))
<kiko> ddaa, I don't. I am a realist. and in this case, it Really Doesn't Matter
<leonel> if launchpad is using  python and postgresql  what  database driver uses  Psycopg  or Pygresql ?
<kiko> psycopg and sqlobject, leonel 
<leonel> kiko: thanks  .  I'm  starting a new development  and  was  in doubt what to use 
<ddaa> * database introspection to assert there are no foreign key to the branch except in the RevisionNumber table
<ddaa> * rename deleted branches to foo--deleted[-N]  (-N in case of multiple deleted branches with the same initial name, it WILL happen)
<ddaa> * add Branch.deleted_date timestamp
<ddaa> * implement all of step 1
<kiko> ddaa, that sounds good to me
<kiko> is this something you'd like to see solved for a 1.1?
<ddaa> well, that still lacks something
<ddaa> a good UI design
<kiko> just make a delete-branch script 
<kiko> that I can ask stub to run on the server
<ddaa> Ah right
<ddaa> In this case, I'm keen to see it happen ASAP
<kiko> ddaa, okay. if you can modify that spec to be a BasicBranchDeletion and then add the other ideas to AdvancedBugDeletion I will add it to 1.1 and get you time to work on it
<ddaa> kiko: can you update the spec with the outcome of this discussion? With the three implementation steps (basic, advanced, collection).
<kiko> ddaa, how about you do it? :-) I am seriously blocking other people if I stop to do that and I fear my stack is so full..
<ddaa> kiko: oh well... send me an email with the highlight from this chat and I'll update the spec as soon as I get the round tuits.
<kiko> ddaa, okay
<ddaa> kiko: I think  branch deletion is relatively low priority. If we fix the more important issues (hiding obsolete-merged branches, recovering from failure on first sftp push) we'll have covered 95% of the use cases.
<ddaa> But I agree it's important generally to evolve lp into circa 1984 user interface technology, you know, the garbage can...
<kiko> ddaa, right. I'm tackling sftp push issues with j-a-meinel, I'm now curious about obsolete-merged, and I think hiding branches would at least let me sleep soundly with no tickets on my back
<ddaa> kiko: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/58889
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58889 in launchpad-bazaar "Merged and abandoned branch should not appear in main branch listings" [High,Confirmed]  
<ddaa> combine this with a good naming convention for "branches that actually should be deleted" is good enough in the short term IMO.
<kiko> that's very easy to fix
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73644 in rosetta "provide language-support-sco" [Undecided,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73644
<elmo> is it unreasonable for me to expect "linux 2.6.17" to work as a search term and/or is there already a bug about this?
<kiko> elmo, not unreasonable, and I think there's already a bug open
#launchpad 2006-11-29
<lifeless> jamesh: had a chance to look at the patch yet ?
<BjornT> kiko: pong
<kiko> BjornT!
<kiko> it's too late to IRC
<kiko> go to bed
<kiko> we can chat tomorrow
<BjornT> well, i fell asleep earlier today and woke up again just now
<kiko> BjornT, ok, I can give you a midnight chore. 
<kiko> run "time bzr branch https://launchpad.net/products/bugzilla"
<kiko> and tell me tomorrow how long it took
<kiko> it takes 27 minutes here :-(
<kiko> and on that note
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<jamesh> stub: ping?
<stub> jamesh: pong
<jamesh> I was looking at the logs for the production/1.76 branch, and don't see a cherry pick of r4275
<jamesh> did it actually get cherry picked?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73689 in launchpad "Malone doesn't take Debian bug tracker URL's" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73689
<stub> jamesh: Your right - looks like I missed it
<jamesh> should I move it back to the "requested cherry picks" section, or can you handle it?
<stub> I'm handling i
<stub> t
<stub> Just rerunning the tests now.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73695 in malone "Attachment description should be optional (taken from filename)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73695
<stub> jamesh: The missing patch should now be live
<jamesh> cool.  We seem to be able to render things like https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xawtv/+bug/73077/comments/0 now :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73077 in xawtv "When running scantv I get a segmentation fault (core dumped) when ut gets to channel 77" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<jamesh> stub: btw, I fixed up the last few issues with my tzfile branch of pytz
<jamesh> I can unpickle old pickles for time zones like W_minus_SU
<stub> Cool. I was looking at it yesterday.
<stub> I'll add some tests for that too - it is particularly important for ZODB applications that have pytz instances stored as persistent pickles.
<jamesh> the test_tzinfo and test_docs tests pass
<jamesh> I haven't checked test_zdump one because it doesn't work on x86-64
<stub> I'll generate it here and give it a spin
<lifeless> jamesh: thanks!
<carlos> morning
<mdke> morning carlos
<carlos> morning
<carlos> mdke: how's going?
<mdke> carlos: good thanks. you?
<carlos> fine, thanks :-D
<jordi> mdke: had your session already, right? How did it go?
<mdke> jordi: it's this evening, after yours I think
<jordi> hmm, carlos, how could a template be imported as German?
<jordi> there's even no Language field when importing templates
<carlos> jordi: because for some reason, we imported de.po as the first file for that template
<carlos> so the potemplate got de.po as its name
<jordi> weird. I'm always careful about doing the template first
<jordi> anyway, thanks for fixing
<carlos> np
<jordi> and thanks for the silva request. As soon as stub executes it, I'll mail thisfred.
<jordi> it'd be good if you could remind me of the hidden translation-group links so I can teach thisfred on how he needs to manage it
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/silva-translators
<ddaa> jordi: haha!
<ddaa> gtetrinet!
<ddaa> this is so last year, you know? ;)
<jordi> ddaa: I'm adding your email to the MAINTAINERS file so you share the pain mmmmkay :)
<jordi> ddaa: not last year. This is 1990's :)
<ddaa> mkay... the most intriguing pysvn exception ever
<ddaa> pysvn._pysvn.ClientError: Code: 00020f58
<ddaa> talk of XXth century technology...
<jordi> heh
<lifeless> double triple-wrappers
<ddaa> you have no idea
<ddaa> since it's actually for the cups import, which is itself a wrapper of wrappers of sorts :)
<ddaa> lifeless: can you look for cscvs--insane now?
<lifeless> ddaa: what do you need it for again?
<ddaa> just want to get the complete history of cscvs back to the last public code
<lifeless> /home/david/.arch-cache/archives/robertc@robertcollins.net--warty/cscvs--insane--1.0--patch-172
<lifeless> on chinstrap
<ddaa> that will also help me set the copyright notices, though it's obviously not indispensable for this
<ddaa> ?
<ddaa> dude, that's an arch-cache entry
<ddaa> I'm looking for the actual archive
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> I know
<lifeless> I figure that means theres a location registered on chinstrap
<ddaa> i doubt so, but I'll check
<ddaa> so, it's not in my registered archives on chinstrap, I checked
<ddaa> and as far as I can tell, this arch-cache entry is the baz equivalent of a ghost revision
<lifeless> ddaa: its in /home/warthogs/archives now I hope
<ddaa> looks like it's there
<ddaa> thanks
<lifeless> np
<ddaa> in case anybody cares, we now have an import of iptables
<ddaa> Enough importd babysitting for today
<jordi> ddaa: hm, gtetrinet failed
<ddaa> yeah
<ddaa> no time to diagnose it today
<ddaa> apparently, it tried to retrieve a file that's not present at all in the cvs repo
<ddaa> ATM, I'm spending one hour a day herding imports, diagnosing and cataloguing failures
<mpt> hi salgado, got some time to talk about pillargotchis?
<salgado> hey mpt
<salgado> sure
<mpt> salgado, are you doing it on the 1-0 branch?
<ddaa> jordi: is this for a one-off conversion or for tracking an uncaring upstream?
<salgado> mpt, no. should I?
<mpt> salgado, some of the fallback icons for things that haven't specified their own icons don't exist on mainline
<mpt> For example, /@@/team
<salgado> ah, right
<mpt> or /@@/team-heading, rather
<salgado> I'm using the nyet-something for now
<mpt> ok
<mpt> well if that's fairly easy to change, that's fine
<mpt> but mainline doesn't show pillargotchis anyway
<mpt> so it might be difficult to test :-)
<mpt> At least, it shows them for people and teams, but not products and projects
<salgado> we show the pillargotchis on the +editicon page of products, projects, etc
<salgado> and yes, it's fairly easy to change
<jordi> ddaa: I just registered the cvs info when I created the product
<salgado> mpt, now I have a question about SearchingProjects
<mpt> ok
<jordi> I don't need it personally
<ddaa> okay
<ddaa> scratch one for separating vcs imports from registry :(
<salgado> mpt, it may not be possible for us to get a batched list before we start using storm, so I was thinking of somehow limit the number of results and show a info message in case we had more results than the limit
<salgado> mpt, would that be okay with you?
<ddaa> this conflation is just annoying to me and confusing to users
<mpt> salgado, I think that would be ok
<mpt> though we have problems sometimes with the obvious thing not appearing top in the search results
<ddaa> for very large values of sometimes, yes
<salgado> mpt, we'll be sorting the results by their fti rank, which means the most relevant ones should show up on top of the list
<salgado> doesn't matter if they're products, projects or distros
<mpt> salgado, well, for example, https://launchpad.net/products?text=firefox returns Firefox as #3 :-)
<salgado> mpt, I'm pretty sure that page sorts the results by displayname or something like that
<salgado> maybe not
<BugMaN> hi
<salgado> mpt, the query used on that page doesn't seem to order the results at all
<BugMaN> in a translation page is possible to have  more than 10 string?
<salgado> mpt, that problem should not exist on the new page
<salgado> mpt, btw, we need to sort out the sizes of icons/emblems. specially for teams
<mpt> salgado, that seems to be bug 1022, bug 1501, and bug 42311
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1022 in launchpad "Full-text searches require ranking." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1022
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1501 in launchpad "The full-text search criteria and the search results are often confusingly mismatched." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1501
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42311 in launchpad "Exact matches should come first in searches" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42311
<carlos> BjornT: ping
<salgado> mpt, the query I have for the new page takes both 1022 and 42311 into account
<mpt> great!
<mpt> salgado, the sizes are all explained on /+graphics
<salgado> ahhh
<mpt> pillargotchi is the "heading" size, maximum 96px * 96px
<mpt> but advertised as being 64px * 64px
<carlos> I wonder which timezone is WST
<carlos> and why are we using it for pagetests
<mpt> salgado, and mugshots 170 * 170
<salgado> great
<mpt> carlos, might be Western Standard Time, if it was code written by jamesh :-)
<salgado> that /is not/ mentioned anywhere in the spec
<mpt> oh dear, the spec has no Design section
<mpt> Shall I fill it in?
<mpt> including the sizes?
* mpt is surprised to read that sprints are supposed to have pillargotchis
<carlos> mpt: the problem is that zope.app.datetimeutils doesn't accept it as a valid timezone
<salgado> mpt, that'd be nice. from there I can update the schema changes to match what is needed
<BjornT> carlos: pong
<carlos> BjornT: have you read the problem I'm having with zope.app.datetimeutils and the default timezone used for pagetests?
<SteveA> mpt: conferences have logos
<mpt> true enough
<BjornT> carlos: can you paste the test and the traceback?
<carlos> well, problem is in new browser code I wrote, I don't think the test itself will help you a lot. Let me show the value I get and the traceback...
<carlos> BjornT: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileTF4hAu.html
<jamesh> carlos: if this date isn't for display to the user, then don't use fmt:datetime
<carlos> jamesh: no, it's not for display to the user
<carlos> jamesh: will that leave it as UTC?
<jamesh> carlos: datetime.isoformat() should provide a form that can be parsed reliably
<carlos> ok
<jamesh> or "value/isoformat" in TALES syntax
<carlos> ok
<carlos> thanks for the tip
<jamesh> carlos: in fact, you could get rid of the need to parse dates by changing your code to format the current timestamp with isoformat() and compare it against lock_timestamp
<mpt> salgado, https://launchpad.canonical.com/PillarGotchis?action=diff
<salgado> mpt, no small emblems anymore? the schema changes on the spec has them
<mpt> and thanks for that discussion :-)
<mpt> hmmm.
<mpt> Did sabdfl write the schema changes?
<salgado> I think so
<mpt> Maybe we are using them after all, then
<mpt> though I don't know in what
<jamesh> carlos: as you found out, the short time zone abbreviations like "WST" are not unique, so shouldn't really be used on their own when parsing dates
<carlos> jamesh: not really, I need to know whether a date is newer or older 
<jamesh> for Australia, WST now means something different to WST next week
<salgado> mpt, okay, then I have one last question
<mpt> salgado, we could keep them around in the database until you find out from sabdfl what they should be used for
<jamesh> now, WST == Western Standard Time.  Next week, WST == Western Summer Time
<mpt> heh
<sabdfl> hi
<sabdfl> the emblems are for listings
<carlos> jamesh: how's that? we use CEST and CET depending on whether is summer time or not
<sabdfl> so, if you do a search, and there are a bunch of products and projects, then those that have emblems would use that rather than product_mini
<carlos> I thought most people do that...
<jamesh> carlos: with our system, you don't need to remember which abbreviation to use
<mpt> sabdfl, the emblems are 16*16, and iirc the reason we have -mini icons at all was because 16*16 was too large for listings
<sabdfl> right
<carlos> jamesh: anyway, a UTC date/time is enough to do what I'm implementing right now
<mpt> or is it ok for team listings to be a little taller?
<sabdfl> mpt: feel free to tweak, or drop the pillar emblem idea, as you see fit
<salgado> mpt, what I have implemented here allows me to easily provide a page for products/projects/distros/etc in which they can add/change/remove an image of any size, with the size being specified in each different page, together with some labels. this makes it very easy to extend the existing images we have associated with each pillar, but it has the disadvantage of having a separate page for each of these images
<mpt> yeah
<salgado> I thought about combining two images in a single page, but that wouldn't scale nicely for more than 2
<mpt> and if you combine them you run into the problem I had when trying to fix bug 2421 and bug 52765
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2421 in launchpad "Hackergotchi field should be on Edit Details page" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2421
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52765 in launchpad "No way to remove hackergotchi" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52765
<salgado> I actually had a way that would fix both
<mpt> because if you edit anything else, it assumes you want to delete the image you didn't specify this time
<mpt> unless you use a custom form
<salgado> yeah, using a custom form, with radio buttons
<mpt> cool
<salgado> but as I said, that doesn't scale well if we have more than two images
<mpt> It could be a <select> instead
<mpt> if the issue is compactness
<mpt> Emblem: [Leave unchanged :^] 
<mpt> Icon: [Remove :^] 
<mpt> Mugshot: [Add     :^]           ( Choose File... )
<mpt> hmmm
<salgado> that looks good to me
<salgado> any objections?
<mpt> sabdfl, I think inviting people to upload an image in two sizes is ok, but three sizes might be overdoing it
<salgado> can't we resize the mugshot for them?
<mpt> Last year when we were brainstorming PersonNamePresentation etc I was also imagining that, for example, in a list of subscribers "important" people would have customized icons
<mpt> or tweaked generic icons, rather
<salgado> they could provide only the mugshot. we save it in its original size and also save a resized copy of it as the icon
<mpt> e.g. a helmet for a driver of relevant software
<mpt> A beret for RosettaExperts and MaloneExperts (remember those?)
<mpt> salgado, that would work
<mpt> if the resizing code is decent :-)
<salgado> gtk gives us different options when resizing. I'm checking if the Image module has something similar
<danilos> salgado: PIL has decent support for resizing, afair
<mpt> SteveA, pushed 2006-08-ui with latest icons and other page updates
<salgado> yeah, it has a filter argument
<salgado> so, what's the decision, mpt? allow users to upload a large (200x200 px) one and a small one (16x16 or whatever) and also save an intermediate size one, obtained by resizing the large one?
<mpt> That seems like a good plan for now, salgado 
<mpt> Once all the templates are revised for 1.0 we can reconsider whether we're using emblem for anything useful
<mpt> and thanks very much for fixing bug 2421 :-D
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2421 in launchpad "Hackergotchi field should be on Edit Details page" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2421
<salgado> I haven't fixed that yet
<salgado> stub, around?
<stub> salgado: yes
<kiko-zzz> hello
<salgado> stub, I wanted a constraint to ensure that people can't have emblems, but I couldn't come up with one that works
<SteveA> if people had emblems, we could do fanclubs
<SteveA> so, if you're in the RMS fanclub, you get his emblem, etc.
<kiko> like orkut?
<stub> CHECK (emblem IS NULL OR teamowner IS NOT NULL)
<stub> salgado: ^^^
<niemeyer> Heya
<salgado> thanks stub
<niemeyer> stub: Have you had a chance to roll your eyes on the packaging-related issue I mailed you?
<Keybuk> SteveA: aren't emblems going away with the new UI?
<kiko> niemeyer, I looked at it and may have an opinion
<kiko> Keybuk, SteveA: I am -1 on emblems going away fwiw
<stub> niemeyer: I see no email
<salgado> stub, btw, I have a db patch on my pillar-gotchis branch which I added to your queue
<salgado> kiko, Keybuk, no, they're not going away
<salgado> the plan is to use them on listings, I think
<niemeyer> stub: Hmm.. weird
<niemeyer> stub: You were CC'd
<stub> Subject?
<niemeyer> stub: I've just resent it
<kiko> I have a great resent too
<stub> Got it
<niemeyer> kiko: Woot!
<niemeyer> kiko: Tell me
<kiko> niemeyer, not yet. :)
<niemeyer> Pleeeease :)
<stub> niemeyer: The timing differences may be just because solution 1 has a foreign key constraint and solution 2 doesn't. You should drop the foreign key constraint for a more realistic comparison.
<niemeyer> stub: Both of them have no foreign key constraints in the test
<sabdfl> mpt: then you would also need to give an indication of the context in which they are important
<sabdfl> so, for example, the driver of ubuntu may not be a driver in x.org
<sabdfl> i don't think we should do that
<sabdfl> the pillar-gotchis were really for listings of specs, say, where the specs might be from multiple products
<sabdfl> specs in a sprint
<sabdfl> or on listings of bugs across multiple products/distros
<sabdfl> to indicate which product/distro the report is in
<niemeyer> stub: It is true, however, that option 1 has indexes while 2 doesn't, but that's intrinsic to how they store and search for information.
<stub> niemeyer: GIST or the new GIN indexes in 8.2 might allow you to query solution 2 efficiently.
<niemeyer> stub: Never heard of these.. will look for info
<niemeyer> stub: Hmm, actually I've herad of GIST
<niemeyer> stub: But not of GIN
<stub> GIST is used as the basis of tsearch2. GIN is a replacement for GIST.
<stub> Well... different. Slower inserts, faster queries.
<niemeyer> stub: Would a 3rd solution exists?
<stub> I'm not 100% sure they support the operations you need though for arrays.
<niemeyer> exist
<niemeyer> stub: I was a bit concerned with iteration over the list of packages, since it'd mean sending a blob of 180k over the wire
<niemeyer> stub: But I found a way to iterate over them individually in the server side
<niemeyer> So this shouldn't be an issue
<stub> Solution 1 is the only sane structure that lets you say 'which computers have package foo'. Do you need to do that ever?
<niemeyer> "
<niemeyer> Gin comes with built-in support for one-dimensional arrays (eg. integer[] , 
<niemeyer> text[] ), but no support for NULL elements.  The following operations are
<niemeyer> available:
<niemeyer> "
* niemeyer hugs stub
<stub> I can't really think of alternative representations.
<stub> That means you are targetting 8.2 unless GIST lets you do it too
<niemeyer> stub: We may have to do it from batch processing
<stub> (Which should be fine for your work)
<niemeyer> stub: But the timing there doesn't look awful
<niemeyer> stub: Right
<stub> So the GIN or maybe GIST indexes look like they will make the array approach just as usable as solution 1
<niemeyer> stub: Well, we can still target 8.1, since it's gonna be a while before this becomes a major issue.. and when it does, "CREATE INDEX" gives instantaneous bonus points.
<stub> Just a little more complex as you might need stored procedures to filter the arrays rather than sending the entire blobs to the app
<niemeyer> stub: Right
<niemeyer> stub: As far as the logic is correctly hidden behind an API, shouldn't be an issue as well
<niemeyer> stub: Thanks for helping
* carlos -> lunch
<mni> hi
<mni> hi all
<kiko> hey mni 
<kiko> what's cooking?
<mni> men nothing
<mni> just want to disscuss on ubuntu
<kiko> flacoste!
<flacoste> hi kiko!
<kiko> how's it going
<kiko> ddaa, what is the frequency in which vcs imports are updated?
<ddaa> between 6 and 24 hours, depends... but the actual published branches are only published daily.
<flacoste> good even I I recevied too much spam for junk stock this morning
<ddaa> So, if you are really unlucky, the import may be up to 48h out of date.
<kiko> ddaa, depends on what?
<ddaa> on the value of productseries.syncinterval
* ddaa looks for thebug
<kiko> mpt, ping?
<kiko> ddaa, how is that set?
<ddaa> kiko: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/60418
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60418 in launchpad-bazaar "configurable default syncinterval for vcs imports" [High,Confirmed]  
<kiko> okay but.. what's the default?
<ddaa> kiko: at some point I set the syncinterval for svn import to 6 hours, and 12h for cvs imports. But all new imports still get 1day syncinterval.
<kiko> okay! that sounds fine -- I was just curious.
<ddaa> But anyway, that's all pretty moot since anyway the actual publishing happens daily.
<kiko> ddaa, if the interval was much lower would these boxes die?
<ddaa> The svn interval can be lowered pretty much arbitrarily. The limiting factor ATM would be the cost to "bzr branch" the import branch every time (that can be optimised out), and how much we find it acceptable to spam community servers.
<ddaa> The cvs interval should not be lowered too much as it increases the probability of capturing an in-progress cvs commit.
<ddaa> note, in-progress cvs commits _are_ a practical problem for imports, remember? That's why the cscvs catalog is precious.
<ddaa> So, 6h and 12h are just about the best reasonable values in the current setup.
<ddaa> given some optimisations, we could lower svn sync interval to just about anything (say, every 10 mins).
<kiko> ddaa, the interval doesn't really mean too much for race conditions, though I guess doing it more frequently increases the risk of a race proportionally.
<ddaa> that's correct
<ddaa> the rate of races is proportional to the frequency as long as the interval between sync is >> than the commit time.
<ddaa> Note that in some repos, the commit time can be pretty large.
<kiko> yeah, for mozilla for instance.
<ddaa> Then the rate of races goes through the roof.
<ddaa> But again, that's pretty much moot until we have Branch.pull_now, and corresponding support in importd and the branch puller, so importd can request immediate mirroring of a branch.
<kiko> right
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73756 in rosetta "Keychain requries translations" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73756
<ddaa> kiko-fud: how do you like this? https://launchpad.canonical.com/DeleteBranchesBasic
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73761 in soyuz "Missing support for any-i386 and linux-i386" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73761
<Keybuk> ^ please mark that bug as Critical
<carlos> kiko-fud, SteveA: I have bug #68014 ready to review
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<carlos> is there any reviewer with time to do an urgent review?
<salgado> carlos, how big is it?
<carlos> salgado: the diff has 1629 lines but code changes are around 200-300 lines the rest are test modifications/additions
<carlos> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileqYPMN8.html
<salgado> carlos, do you have a bug for it? are you going to request a cherry pick?
<carlos> salgado: the usual pending review page is not yet updated
<carlos> salgado: I do
<carlos> it's third step to fix that bug
<carlos> #68014
<salgado> third step or third try?
<carlos> hmmm, in fact, I forgot to enable again the .po upload form. I disabled it as first step to fix this bug, but it's just a matter of remove some code so it shouldn't affect your review
<carlos> salgado: third step
<carlos> salgado: we did it in three steps: 1. disable upload form, 2. tag .po files and store more metadata in our database
<carlos> and now, we use .po files tagging and that new metadata and allow our users to see conflicts while editing the same translation in parallel
<salgado> carlos, so, the conflict notification will be done when somebody uploads a new po file?
<carlos> salgado: so, will you be able to review it? I have an email ready to send to launchpad mailing list asking for a reviewer
<salgado> I can review, but first I need to know more about this fix
<salgado> carlos, does your branch also include a fix for bug 73509?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73509 in rosetta ".po file export doesn't update cached files" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73509
<carlos> no
<carlos> salgado: that's another thing
<salgado> and the conflict notification?
<carlos> but this branch will prevent problems caused by that other bug
<salgado> <salgado> carlos, so, the conflict notification will be done when somebody uploads a new po file?
<carlos> salgado: look at it as two persons editing the same wiki page
<carlos> salgado: either uploading a new po file
<carlos> salgado: or translating using the web interface
<salgado> when they have a stale page, I guess?
<salgado> something like they start translating and then somebody else uploads a new pofile before they submit their translations?
<carlos> salgado: btw, with your question, I just realise that I forgot to add a test for the notification email
<carlos> salgado: yeah, kind of
<salgado> kind of?
<carlos> the po file would be already uploaded, but still waiting in the import queue
<carlos> or someone else loading the same translation form
<carlos> and submits it faster than the other user
<salgado> wouldn't it be possible for the pofile be approved after I start translating and before I submit?
<salgado> s/be/to be/
<carlos> yes, that's possible, it's not usual, but it's possible
<carlos> our main focus was to fix when someone translates something in the UI and then, we get a .po upload with old information
<carlos> with our current code, that .po file upload reverts the changes done using the web UI
<salgado> I'm trying to think of all possible scenarios that would cause translations to be reverted, to make sure we're really safe this time
<carlos> I think we covered all those, I had a meeting that would be taken as a preimplementation call  with SteveA and kiko about this issue
<carlos> but thanks for check it again, do you need more info about the workflow?
<salgado> let's say I start translating tomboy and in the meantime somebody approves the upload of a tomboy pofile which touches the same strings that I translated...
<salgado> am I going to get a warning when I submit my translations?
<carlos> yes
<carlos> your translation will be stored as suggestions
<carlos> and you will get an error message asking you to check it again
<salgado> ah, cool
<carlos> danilos: ping
<danilos> carlos: pong
<carlos> danilos: the only thing I'm missing for the branch that salgado is going to review is the help text
<carlos> danilos: but I really don't know what to put there. any suggestion?
<carlos> danilos: the form is the translation form
<danilos> carlos: hum, we'd probably want a couple of paragraphs for that page... something like "You can translate by filling the empty fields with appropriate translations. For your convenience, you can also use 'copy' buttons next to each suggestion, which are ideas others have submitted."
<carlos> well, at this point, we don't have (yet) copy buttons ;-)
<danilos> carlos: and then simply "When you're satisfied with translations on this page, click on 'Save & Continue' to go to the next page."
<carlos> but I get the idea
<danilos> carlos: right, but you can do something like "You can copy them from other suggestions, which are displayed below each field."
<danilos> carlos: I am not sure on the terminology we should use here (but I am sure we should not use terms like 'input box', 'textarea' etc. :)
<carlos> yeah, anyway, TranslationReview should land this week too
<carlos> danilos: right
<carlos> danilos: ok, thanks for the input!
<danilos> carlos: great, ff stuff is almost cleaned up as well, hopefully up for review later
<carlos> danilos: cool
<carlos> danilos: I'm leaving for holidays next week and I want to land and cherrypick bug #68014 and TranslationReview before leaving
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<carlos> danilos: please, tell me anything you need from me before Friday night
<danilos> carlos: just an invitation letter to come make use of your flat in Alicante if you'll be away during your holidays :P
<carlos> :-P
<Anatoly> Hi, I have a problem zope3 on Ubuntu 6.1. TypeError: readline() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given). Python 2.4 installed from packages. Zope 3.3 compiled
<salgado> carlos, why did you add lots of "potemplate = POTemplate.get(1)" lines to rosetta-karma.txt?
<carlos> salgado: because jamesh told me that I need to fetch again objects after a commit
<carlos> salgado: I didn't change all tests, just the ones that I was having problems with
<carlos> but, at some point, I guess we should change all tests 
<salgado> Anatoly, I think this is a known bug in zope and is fixed in their svn (r70587 and r70593 according to our logs)
<salgado> Anatoly, btw, this is not the right channel for these questions. #ubuntu is
<Anatoly> salgado, Thank's a lot
<salgado> carlos, I see... maybe we should not allow transaction.commit() to be used in tests?
<salgado> carlos, please add comments on each of those lines you added, since it's not clear why you need them
<carlos> salgado: well, without the commits, there are some cache issues and librarian problems
<salgado> carlos, the utilities don't have any persistent attributes, so they can be used across multiple transactions. can you remove the extra getUtility() calls you added?
<carlos> salgado: I try to use as less as possible the commits, specially now that I know I should fetch again the SQLObjects...
<carlos> salgado: ok, I was not sure
<carlos> salgado: will do (add comment + that)
<salgado> carlos, right, I was asking you to add comments on the POTemplate.get(1) lines
<salgado> I mean, no need to add comments for the commits -- just for the extra POTemplate.get() lines
<carlos> don't worry, I got it
<ssam> i have just spotted two bugs in launchpad that both link to the same upstream bug. could some magic be put in place to automatically find and mark these as duplicates?
<ssam> bug 67970 and bug 58373
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67970 in xorg "Endianness problem with AIGLX(BSOD on ppc)" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67970
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58373 in xorg-server "Blue compiz for PowerPC" [Unknown,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58373
<ssam> i have manually marked them as dupes
<salgado> ssam, I'm not sure we should mark them as dupes when we find they're linked to the same upstream bug, but we definitely could tell the user adding the link that there's another bug already linked to that upstream bug
<salgado> and maybe even show that in the bug's main page
<ssam> salgado, yeah that could work
<salgado> ssam, can you file a bug for that?
<ssam> yep, against launchpad right?
<salgado> malone, actually. launchpad.net/products/malone
<ssam> thanks
<salgado> you're welcome
<carlos> salgado: I need to go out, but will be back in around 30 minutes. Btw, thanks for handling this review!
<salgado> np
<matsubara> ssam: bug 29206
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29206 in malone "indicate when another bug already uses the same watch" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29206
<ssam> matsubara, thanks
<ssam> would it be possible for someone to make a list of all the existing bugs with the same watch, so that someone could look through them all?
<salgado> ssam, you mean as a one-off or to have a page listing that?
<ssam> salgado, maybe just a one-off to see if its worth the effort
<salgado> ssam, that's trivial. let me see if I can get it
<ssam> salgado, thanks
<cprov> BjornT: ping
<matsubara> shouldn't https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-integration/ use malone as its official bug tracker?
<salgado> ssam, it was not as easy as I thought, but here it is: http://rafb.net/paste/results/7jP84A64.html
<jordi> danilo[out] : ping?
<ssam> salgado, thanks
<ssam> salgado, thats quite a few
<jordi> carlos: rosetta talk in 30 mins. If you're around, great :)
<salgado> ssam, indeed, but there might be some that are already marked as dupes. it's not easy for me to exclude them. :/
<xhaker> I have a question about team memberships: when a team is a member of another team, it works just like subclasses right?
<ssam> salgado, i'll have a look through and see if any are not already duped
<ssam> salgado, there are a few in there that are not marked as dupes yet
<salgado> ssam, hmmm. and are they really dupes?
<ssam> salgado, i think so like, bug 54602 and bug 3512
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54602 in gnome-terminal "quote filename on dnd" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54602
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3512 in gnome-terminal "escape spaces in paths of files dragged from Nautilus" [Low,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3512
<ssam> salgado, though one was rejected and the other fixed
<salgado> one is rejected and the other is fix released
<salgado> heh
<ssam> salgado, bug 63796 and bug 68291, i am not completely sure so i commented on them
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63796 in xorg-server "X doesn't launch with voodoo 5 5500" [Unknown,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63796
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68291 in xorg-server "GDM Restarts after Desktop loads while using tdfx driver" [Unknown,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68291
<ssam> i guess its pointless to mark dupes for fixed bugs
<salgado> ssam, I'm not sure... if there's a regression and they change one of the bug's status to confirmed, for instance
<ssam> yeah that makes sense
<salgado> ssam, also, you may want to talk to sfllaw about what you're doing. he may have some good advice about what to do in these cases
<ssam> ok, thanks
<sabdfl> matsubara: yes, launchpad-integration should do
<matsubara> sabdfl: already sorted. I asked mvo and he flagged it as an official malone product. thanks anyway. 
<xhaker> sabdfl or kiko, care to explain this? Team memberships works just like subclasses right?
<ssam> salgado, sfllaw likes the idea of automatically marking these as potential dupes, maybe by adding a comment
<xhaker> i'm taking analogies here.
<kiko> xhaker, that's a pretty far analogy you're stretching there.
<kiko> xhaker, but team membership is recursive, yes
<flacoste> xhaker: they are more akin to set
<kiko> so you can be a member of team C indirectly by being a member of team B which is itself a member of team C.
<flacoste> xhaker: set A contain set B when team B is a member of team A
<xhaker> kiko, not the other way around for sure? i just don't want to have people member sof the most general team being members of the other aut
<kiko> not the other way around, for sure.
<xhaker> thanks kiko, needed to clear that thing up for my LoCo team
<kiko> sure thing
<sabdfl> xhaker: we should use the term "member" and "participant" to distinguish between direct membership, and membership in a team which is in turn a member
<sabdfl> so, the "participants" in a team are ALL the members, and members-of-members, recursively
<xhaker> sabdfl, neat. I'm trying to shake things up a bit in the PT LoCo team. We're mostly dedicated to Rosetta translations. I'm trying to gather more "participants", those that would rather like to do other things. 
<ddaa> yay, kdepim import
<ddaa> only one year late
<kiko> matsubara, that bug reported by ssam, bug 29206, is kind of a dupe.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29206 in malone "indicate when another bug already uses the same watch" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29206
<kiko> oh sorry, I am on crack. of course.
<kiko> salgado, can you email the query you used to obtain that to launchpad? that's a neat feature.
<lumpki> i have a launchpad account, does that give me an ubuntu forums account also?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73813 in malone "fdisk is not a package" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73813
<mdke> lumpki: no, not at the moment
<salgado> kiko, that's not just the result of a query. the query is quite simple, but it includes two rows for each two bugs that have the same watch, and I couldn't find a way to get rid of the extra ones using SQL
<salgado> kiko, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileeqmte7.html is the query I used, anyway
<mdz> cprov-out: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+search?text=cdrkit shows no results, though https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cdrkit exists
<kiko> mdz, hmmm. matsubara is there a bug filed for that? I thought I fixed the last of those
<cprov-out> kiko: looks like it's not in the indexes
* matsubara checks
<matsubara> kiko: I found only the ones you fixed. I file a new one with that specific issue and assign to you, ok?
<cprov-out> matsubara: 'SELECT * from distributionsourcepackagecache where name = 'cdrkit';' returns no result
<kiko> cprov-out, matsubara: could it be that the damned cronscript isn't running?
* kiko moans
<kiko> I HATE JUPITER
<cprov-out> kiko: yes, could be, I don't know where update-pkgcache is running
<cprov-out> kiko: for sure it hasn't been running since 24th this mounth, when 'cdrkit' was published the first time in ubuntu, it's definitely not in DistributionSourcePackageCache. 
<kiko> cprov-out, can you email stub CC: launchpad? 
<kiko> matsubara, I'm not sure this is worth a bug, but perhaps
<cprov-out> kiko: sure, will do
<matsubara> cprov-out, kiko: I glanced over lp-errors but there's nothing unusual there. 
<matsubara> 06:57:25 INFO    No need to rebuild full text index on
<matsubara> +distributionsourcepackagecache
<matsubara> but that's for the staging db
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> probably not running on production
<matsubara> bug 73836
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73836 in soyuz "Sourcepackage search for 'cdrkit' returns no results but sourcepackage exists." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73836
<cprov-out> kiko: matsubara: email sent
<kiko> thanks cprov-afk 
<cprov-afk> kiko: np, see you later
<ddaa> kiko: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/isaac-asimov/buy-jupiter.htm
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73836 in soyuz "Sourcepackage search for 'cdrkit' returns no results but sourcepackage exists." [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73836
<sigurdga> will new translations done to dapper be merged over to edgy and feisty?
<sigurdga> i think the answer is no, myself
#launchpad 2006-11-30
<SteveA> ddaa: buy jupiter?
<SteveA> hi kiko 
<ddaa> (23:05:53) kiko: I HATE JUPITER
<kiko> I had to hate something unearthly
<kiko> hi SteveA 
<kiko> how was your date
<SteveA> kiko: tonight was a guys-night-out pizza, in the best italian pizza place in rotterdam.
<kiko> mmmm pizza
<WebMaven> SteveA: Hi
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
<jamesh> stub: I mailed you about something I missed when going through you pillar names vocabulary branch -- deactivated products/projects
<stub> jamesh: Ok. Will fix.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73868 in launchpad-support-tracker "Can't link a support request to a specification" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73868
<carlos> morning
<somerville32> _o/
<mpt> Good morning carlos and danilos, I just reported bug 73875 that's needed for 1.0
<Ubugtu> Bug 73875 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/73875 is private
<carlos> let me see...
<danilos> morning mpt, thanks for the bug report ;)
<carlos> mpt: ok
<carlos> changed to Critical
<mpt> I'm not sure what should go on such a page, though :-/
<mpt> apart from a list of product Translations links
<danilos> mpt: is this about "start page"?
<mpt> perhaps the number of languages for which each product is complete
<mpt> danilos, what do you mean by "start page"?
<danilos> mpt: initial page for "translations", i.e. where people interested in translations would start on?
<mpt> yes
<mpt> Well, /softwaretype/software/+translations should be fulfilling that role anyway
<danilos> mpt: ok, I'll thing about what we want there
<mpt> thanks :-)
<jamesh> you mean translations.launchpad.net/software/software ?
<jamesh> :)
<mpt> uh, yeah :-)
<mpt> or just translations.launchpad.net/software
<jamesh> yeah
<mpt> PillarNames makes URLs simpler, but virtual hosting doesn't
<jamesh> we need to improve our traversal code to make full use of the multiple host names
<mpt> well, yes
<mpt> but we need to be careful about not foreclosing more specific things
<jamesh> such as?
<mpt> such as bugs or specifications about product release series
<jamesh> http://blueprints.launchpad.net/productname+seriesname/specname ?
<jamesh> (a bit ugly, but doesn't collide)
<jamesh> mpt: more to the point: do you think we'd need a separate namespace for specifications on product series?
<jamesh> "do you mean the 'foo' spec on Launchpad 1.0 or Launchpad 1.1?"
<mpt> I don't know
<danilos> carlos: ping
<carlos> danilos: pong
<SteveA> I don't think we'd want two specs with the same name for different series
<SteveA> I think practically, if there's a spec that has the same name for different series of a product, it describes the same thing in the context of each product series, or it's very confusing
<mpt> I guess the most likely example is infestations
<mpt> (though personally I think they'd be more confusing than useful, they're often discussed)
<SteveA> if it describes the same thing in the context of each product series, then having the same name doesn't help releive confusion
<SteveA> I'd recommend people use a distinct name for each one
<mpt> SteveA, I'm writing to Anthony, CCing Usman, on the latest things we need from Brilliant
<SteveA> mpt: ok, please cc me too
<mpt> Would you like to see it first, or otherwise comment?
<mpt> Also, have you had any luck in updating the brilliant server?
<SteveA> if you want to bounce it off me, that's fine with me.  I don't feel a need to see it first.
<SteveA> I have 30 mins before my conf call
<mpt> ok, never mind then
<mpt> But a quick question on answer tracker terminology
<mpt> SteveA, is "Ask a question" correct terminology to replace "Request support"? (This is for one of the graphical buttons)
<SteveA> I do know that it should be changed from "request support"
<jamesh> mpt: if we implemented infestations, would we really want pages for individual infestations?
<SteveA> but I do not know the final outcome of what the wording should be
<mpt> jamesh, almost certainly not, but we (very nearly) don't have individual pages for bugtasks any more either, but they still have URLs
<SteveA> mpt: can you wait until the launchpad meeting in a few hours, and we can check that out then?
<mpt> ok
<mpt> eep, I haven't written up the notes for the last meeting
<mpt> I'll do that now :-X
<carlos> spiv: ping
<seb128> carlos: hi
<seb128> carlos: https://launchpad.net/bugs/67860
<seb128> carlos: could you read current comment?
<carlos> seb128: I see it, yes
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 67860 in libgnomeprintui "[Edgy]  Some strings can't be translated" [Undecided,Fix committed]  
<seb128> carlos: could you reply on the "does rosetta update templates for stable" point?
<carlos> I'm on it
<seb128> thank you
<carlos> seb128: done
<seb128> cool
* seb128 hugs carlos
<cjwatson> Hi folks. I meant to discuss https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/MoreUserConfig with some Launchpad developers at allhands, but didn't get round to it. Would anyone have time to discuss LP person creation from the Ubuntu installer with me?
<mpt> cjwatson, the most relevant person would be salgado, who should be here in two hours
<cjwatson> ok, thanks
<mpt> but we'll be having the Launchpad meeting then, so make that 2 hours 45 minutes
<SteveA> mpt: "questions and answers"
<SteveA> says mark
<SteveA> malcc: ping
<malcc> SteveA: Pong
<mpt> SteveA, all the other buttons are verb phrases: "Report a bug", "Register a branch", "Help translate", "Import your project"
<SteveA> yes
<mpt> and "Take a tour"
<SteveA> do you think people will be confused by a different grammatically functional phrase there?
<mpt> I don't think people will be confused by the grammar role so much, but I do think people will misunderstand what it's for
<mpt> Thinking that "Questions and answers" is like a FAQ for the product or whatever
<cprov> good morning, folks
<SteveA> can you propose a better phrase right now?
<mpt> "Ask a question"
<SteveA> ok, mention that in the lp meeting
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> that doesn't include the idea of answering a question, explicitly
<SteveA> I don't know how important that is
<cjwatson> ("Report a bug" doesn't include fixing them either)
<mpt> Nor does "Report a bug" include the idea of resolving bugs, but I think these buttons are supposed to be for the most common actions
<mpt> snap
<mpt> :-=)
* mpt apparently needs a shave
<_Shade_> hi there
<_Shade_> what are these karma points for?
<highvoltage> _Shade_: if you get enough karma points you end up being something better in your next life.
<_Shade_> highvoltage: i c... i'm ubuntero right now, but i only do some translations. Is there any "further stage" ?
<highvoltage> _Shade_: yep, bug triaging, specifications, packaging... the list is very long
<mpt> _Shade_, there is no reward for karma at the moment
<cjwatson> Ubuntero just means you've signed the code of conduct
<mpt> It's similar to the karma system on bugzilla.gnome.org in that way
<_Shade_> highvoltage: but these are connected to these specific tasks, I do not do anything besides translating :)
<cjwatson> mpt: there is no non-social reward, that is
<highvoltage> _Shade_: time to skill up then? read about motu on the wiki and join #ubuntu-motu ;)
<_Shade_> well i'm not sure i can cope such a skill-driller :)... but anyways it's worth a try
<carlos> SteveA, BjornT, jamesh: In Zope, to catch datetimeutils.SyntaxError / datetimeutils.DateError is enough to catch datetimeutils.DateTimeError ?
<ddaa> Hello
<mpt> cjwatson, true, though I've never seen people say "wow, nice karma", so obviously I hang out in the wrong channels :-)
<carlos> SteveA, BjornT, jamesh:  hmm, I think the answer is 'yes', I found it in our code, so don't worry.
<cjwatson> not so much that, but it is something we look at in e.g. Ubuntu membership reviews; obviously not in isolation
<cjwatson> at least, if somebody's karma is very low and they're going for Ubuntu membership, we would ask why
<ajmitch> though there are gaps in karma, like no karma for uploads
<jamesh> ajmitch: is that a hint of some kind?
<cjwatson> ajmitch: yes, though that's not relevant for Ubuntu membership since people applying for that won't have uploaded anything themselves yet
<ajmitch> cjwatson: and that you'd see stuff on -changes lists anyway, for the example of people intending to go on to become MOTUs
<ajmitch> jamesh: it doesn't worry me
<ajmitch> it'd just be another excuse for seb128 & dholbach to get insane amounts of karma :)
<SteveA> spiv: ping
<spiv> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> spiv: where can I read your supermirror smartserver plans?
<mpt> ajmitch, do you know whether there's a bug reported about that?
<spiv> Ah crud, those notes are still in tomboy.
<spiv> SteveA: I'm pasting into the wiki now.
<ajmitch> mpt: no idea
<spiv> SteveA: sorry about that!
<SteveA> wouldn't it be great if you go do a bzr push from tomboy to a wiki
<ajmitch> mpt: I just assumed it would have been on the list of things to do, not needing a bug
<spiv> SteveA: if we had 20% time...
<mpt> ajmitch, that kind of thinking is death to bugtrackers :-(
<mpt> Anyway, it is reported, bug 54596
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54596 in soyuz "karma for uploads" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54596
<jamesh> ajmitch: we've got a bug about getting karma for Bazaar commits, but it hasn't been implemented yet.
<jamesh> ajmitch: that'd help Ubuntu devs maintaining packages in Bazaar
<ajmitch> jamesh: only for pushes to the supermirror?
* ajmitch maintains in bzr, but doesn't push often enough
<jamesh> ajmitch: for revisions scanned by Launchpad
<spiv> SupermirrorSmartServerPlan on the wiki.
<jamesh> ajmitch: you wouldn't get karma for revisions you don't publish :)
<spiv> SteveA: ^
<spiv> SteveA: I need to go afk until the LP meeting now.
<ajmitch> jamesh: I mean that it's per-revision, not per-push :)
<ajmitch> jamesh: still very hard to put a value on - I often make lots of small commits to code I work on
<mpt> Good morning salgado
<jamesh> ajmitch: it's a good thing that karma doesn't buy you anything then ...
<salgado> morning mpt!
<SteveA> spiv: ok, I'll read
<ajmitch> jamesh: ubuntu partners status
<salgado> mpt, have you seen the comment I left on SearchingProjects?
<ajmitch> iirc there's still info on there about extra points being given for people in the top 100 on launchpad
<ddaa> Actually I do have a use case for karma
<ddaa> When I see somebody setting up strange-looking vcs-imports (like it makes me go "what the hell!?"), I check the product details and the owner's karma
<ddaa> if the product is essentially empty and the user has zero karma, it's clearly somebody just trying up launchpad, so I do not bother to get in touch with the guy for clarifications
<mpt> salgado, no
<danilos> one can also sell or buy karma points; that's an important source of revenue for ubuntu community
<danilos> obligatory customer testimonial: I just got a new car when I sold half of my karma points on ebay!
<matsubara> bug 59544
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59544 in launchpad "Who wants to be a (karma) millionaire?" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59544
<matsubara> heh
<salgado> mpt, can you check it? it's a very simple question...
<BjornT> salgado: i have a branch in your review queue that has been in needs-review for 27 days now. do you plan to review it soon, or should i find another reviewer?
<salgado> wow, has it been there for that long already?
<salgado> sorry BjornT, I was reviewing the oldest branches first, and either the other ones were actually older or I did something stupid 
<salgado> BjornT, anyway, I'll review it today
<BjornT> thanks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73890 in blueprint "Show diff of whiteboard changes in e-mail notifications" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73890
<salgado> BjornT, the diff for that branch on PendingReviews is up to date, I guess?
<BjornT> salgado: maybe not. i'll generate a new one just to make sure.
<BjornT> salgado: diff updated
<salgado> thanks BjornT 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73894 in launchpad "No time given for creation of Bugs or Support requests" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73894
<kiko-zzz> hello hello
<kiko> me looks around
<kiko> for a /
<SteveA> it is time
<SteveA> if you need a /, go take one now, you'll be done before we get started properly
<SteveA> meeting time
<malcc> Yay
<kiko> ne
<SteveA> welcome to today's launchpad devel meeting
<SteveA> in addition to kiko and malcc, who is here?
<salgado> me
<BjornT> me
<mpt> me
<matsubara> me
<cprov> me
<spiv> me
<jamesh> me
<carlos> me
<danilos> me
<SteveA> ddaa: ?
<SteveA> flacoste?
<SteveA> stub?
<kiko> you mean flacoste?
* kiko pokes the tardy
<flacoste> me
<danilos> SteveA: stub said something about maybe missing it in his email to warthogs (he's sick)
<jamesh> stub said he was feeling sick on the warthogs list
<SteveA> yeah, he said he'd try to make this meeting.
<SteveA> but if he doesn't turn up, I guess he's ill
<SteveA> get well soon, stub
<SteveA> wou
<SteveA> anyone seen ddaa today?
<kiko> he's around
<SteveA> kiko: would you continue the meeting while I call ddaa?
<ddaa> hello
<SteveA> ah, ok
<SteveA> hi ddaa
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA>  * Roll call
<SteveA>  * Agenda
<SteveA>  * Next meeting
<SteveA>  * Activity reports
<ddaa> sorry was busy siphoning the brain of bzr newbie coming from git
<kiko> SteveA, your trick didn't work this time!
<SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
<SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
<SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
<SteveA> ----
<SteveA>  * Answer tracker terminology  (mpt)
<SteveA>  * (other items)
<SteveA> ----
<SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
<SteveA>  * Three sentences
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> ddaa: aha, important stuff!
<SteveA> next meeting,  thur 7 dec, usual time
<kiko> yay
<SteveA> activity reports
<SteveA> I suck this week.  
<ddaa> up to date
<jamesh> I suck
<mpt> up to date!
<danilos> I suck
<spiv> I suck
<matsubara> I suck
<cprov> up to date
<malcc> I'm suck-tastic
<salgado> I suck too
<carlos> I suck!
<BjornT> up to date
<flacoste> up to date
<kiko> I suck
* ..[topic/#launchpad:mpt] : Developer meeting: Thu 7 Dec, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) |  launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<SteveA> thanks mpt
<SteveA> ok.  I have a request
<SteveA> everyone who sucks... start freshly today.  send an activity report for today's activities TODAY
<SteveA> with or without times / durations
<SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
<SteveA> lots of these
<SteveA>  * spiv to finish the damn `__eq__` for database objects action item
<spiv> I have a new branch that detects when sqlobjects are from different transactions by noting in each object the transaction id from postgres.
<spiv> (which might be a performance issue in its current form, but comparing obj._connection isn't good enough)
<spiv> It causes 26 tests fail, but I've pushed the implementation for review.
<SteveA>  * ddaa to propose updating of our wikis to the shiny new moin, somewhere his request won't be forgotten
<spiv> If the direction seems sane, I'll sort out the broken tests.
<SteveA>  * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (jamesh to add to review meeting agenda)
<SteveA> spiv: I will review it.  please ensure it is in my review queue.
<spiv> SteveA: ok
<jamesh> I added it to the agenda, and we discussed it at the meeting
<kiko> spiv, can I see some of the failing tests? I'll help try and see if they are indeed reused objects.
<SteveA> thanks james
<kiko> SteveA, jamesh: I've been gradually arguing for breaking up specs into smaller specs to help in this sense.
<ddaa> SteveA: who's in charge of admining the launchpad and bazaar wikis? If that's the admins, I can RT them. If it's Nuzum I can email him.
<cprov> sorry ...
<SteveA> ddaa: it is the admins.  but, I want to know why the upgrade is justified right now, or whether it can wait until february.
<SteveA> as we need to upgrade them anyway around feb
<ddaa> Because we live by the shiny, don't we?
<SteveA> no
<ddaa> Can wait indefinitely :)
<SteveA> I find the new wiki theme harder to use
<SteveA> because it's shift+tab from the text area into the save button
<SteveA> not tab
<jamesh> ddaa: if there is any porting work for the wiki auth code, then it is not worth doing now.
<niemeyer> editmoin!
<ddaa> press enter in the change summary field, works as well
<niemeyer> Oh, sorry
<niemeyer> :)
<mpt> SteveA, or just Enter from the summary field
<mpt> (that's what I've always used)
<spiv> SteveA: I have the same problem, except I always want to hit Preview ;)
<mpt> oh, snap
<spiv> kiko: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileMRb9EW.html
<ddaa> anyway, I just want the wysiwyg editor more, but no other compelling reason
<ddaa> so just ignore that, we can stick to the old wiki for a while
<SteveA> ok, let's revisit this next year
<SteveA> in about 1 month
<SteveA> thanks for bringing it up, ddaa.  I think it's a good suggestion overall.
<SteveA> I just don't want to make extra work for admins.
<niemeyer> ddaa: The wysiwyg editor usually screws up the formatting for non-wysiwyg..
<SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 44919, 30602, 6385 and OOPS-333A1726
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44919 in launchpad "UnicodeDecodeError while registering a new account." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44919
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 6385 in rosetta "/rosetta/{products,projects} URLs are broken and should redirect" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6385
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/333A1726
<matsubara> Bug 6385 was previously assigned to carlos; I've taken that one.
<matsubara> Bjorn, is anything blocking the fix for bug 44919?
<matsubara> I talked to kiko yesterday about bug 30602, who in turn told me that carlos, danilos and stub have a plan to deal with it. So guys, how's it going and who should I assign 30602 to?
<kiko> ouch, busted. 
<danilos> we've only got it into discussion so far, it's all about rosetta db optimizations
<kiko> danilos, carlos: can we have a meeting post-meeting?
<danilos> kiko: sure
<carlos> kiko: sure
<BjornT> matsubara: only the lack of time. i've been busy with 1.0 lately, but i might i should be able to take a look at it soon.
<kiko> cool.
<kiko> BjornT, is it something complicated, or will it take you 1 hour?
<danilos> matsubara: we'll assign it appropriately after our meeting, I guess ;)
<jamesh> matsubara: for the OOPS, I posted about the probable cause on the list.
<matsubara> danilos: ok, thanks
<kiko> jamesh, remind us?
<matsubara> There are around 4000 NotFound errors because of arrow*.gif. I chatted with kiko yesterday about it and came up with the following (hackish) patch <https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileE9g37E.html> which kiko suggested to be cherry picked; Although I find it annoying to have this many OOPSes in the reports, I don't think it deserves cherry picking because it's not user visible and not a blocker. mpt, can you write a pro
<matsubara> per fix before the next rollout? Or should I just go on with this patch and request the cherry pick?
<kiko> it's 4000 404s per day
<kiko> I think it's worth it
<kiko> it's such a trivial patch
<jamesh> kiko: the image is referenced in the CSS used by the drop down menus code
<BjornT> kiko: i'm not sure yet, i'll have to take a closer look at it first.
<kiko> BjornT, could you take that closer look today/tomorrowish?
<jamesh> kiko: fixing the CSS to use the name without ".gif" would be as good.
<SteveA> kiko: I don't think it's worth cherrypicking for that
<BjornT> kiko: sure, i can do it tomorrow.
<mpt> matsubara, ok
<SteveA> kiko: I don't see what 4000 404s a day has to do with it
<kiko> SteveA, a two-liner? 
<SteveA> kiko: they're not user-visible
<jamesh> I don't think it is even visible if you don't pull down the menu
<kiko> SteveA, it's noise in a report that we want to rely on as a QA metric. it's also spamming our server logs. but...
<SteveA> if we fix the CSS, we should also update the main template to update the css rev
<jamesh> (not even sure if it is visible then,.
<kiko> I DEFER
<SteveA> our QA and metrics stuff should be able to exclude things we know about and understand
<matsubara> thanks BjornT and mpt 
<SteveA> this kind of situation will come up again
* kiko thinks it's worth it and hates you all
<kiko> next subject!
<SteveA> one thing about the arrow
<ddaa> kiko: welcome to my world!
<mpt> et tu, kiko!
<SteveA> it's meant to be there, I think
<matsubara> mpt: do you want a bug reported on it?
<SteveA> I mean, it is user-visible in one sense -- I think it's meant to appear in the UI
<mpt> matsubara, yes please.
<SteveA> mpt: any comment on that?
<SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
<mpt> None except that I'll fix it if it's considered that important
<SteveA> is it fixed in the 1.0 UI?
<SteveA> if so, just fix the CSS on mainline to exclude it
<mpt> Today, there are only ten known Critical bugs in Launchpad without released fixes. (Yay!) They are:
<SteveA> and rev the CSS version number in teh main template
<sivang> hi all
<mpt> ok
<mpt>  * Bug #2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, Fix Committed, kiko
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
<mpt> kiko, did you decide whether this was resolved enough to be Fix Released, or whether it needed a new bug report?
<mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, which matsubara raised a few minutes ago
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<sivang> woop, am I interrupting in a LP meeting? ;)
<kiko> mpt, it's resolved enough. a new bug report might be opened for the soft time outs, but that's not enough of a priority I think.
<mpt> sivang, yes, finishing in ~25 minutes
<mpt>  * Bug #44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
<mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Need to support KDE like plural forms), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #68014 (Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #73509 (.po file export doesn't update cached files), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
<mpt> carlos, it seems like you're always the most-doomed. How are these going?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73509 in rosetta ".po file export doesn't update cached files" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73509
<sivang> hmm, k, sorry for the interuptions, will come back later.
<danilos> I can easily take on 46982 (kde plural forms support)
<carlos> mpt: bug 44214 is reviewed and I answered the review, I'm waiting for spiv's confirmation that I can merge it
<mpt> kiko, ok, I'll do that
<danilos> carlos: do you want me to help out with these?
<carlos> mpt: #73509 is new and I didn't have time to look into it yet
<matsubara> mpt: +1 on kiko's comment. I'm paying attention to the +translations page and if turns out to be a problem again I'll report it.
<spiv> carlos: I'll take a look at my mail
<mpt>  * Bug #66383 (private), Critical, In Progress, ddaa
<Ubugtu> Bug 66383 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/66383 is private
<mpt> ddaa, any progress?
<mpt>  * Bug #71283 (Allow non-authenticated rendering of +translate pages), Critical, Confirmed, unassigned
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71283 in rosetta "Allow non-authenticated rendering of +translate pages" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71283
<mpt> kiko, is that really Critical? If so, who should get it?
<carlos> danilos: if you see that can handle any of those, is fine for me. I don't think I will be able to start a new bug, I'm leaving for vacations next week..
<carlos> spiv: I sent it last Friday
<SteveA> bug 71283 is very important as a workaround for no translation search
<spiv> carlos: found it, thanks
<danilos> carlos: I know, that's why I am asking; I'll take over the kde plural form support, and see about the others later
<SteveA> it is something that many rosetta users want a lot
<ddaa> mpt: band-aid fix has been in production for a while. Currently in neverending review.
<ddaa> spiv is giving me a hard time with it
<carlos> danilos: but I would prefer that you merge the branches that you have already open before working on those
<danilos> carlos: sure
<mpt> SteveA, bug 44 will be the next bug as soon as I stop nagging about Criticals only, and I'm not sure that it would be slower to implement than TranslationBrowsing would be
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44 in rosetta "Translations should be searchable" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44
<kiko> mpt...
<mpt> ddaa, ok
<SteveA> mpt: that's really a spec
<kiko> mpt, note that bug 44 and bug 71283 are related.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71283 in rosetta "Allow non-authenticated rendering of +translate pages" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71283
<mpt> SteveA, they both are
<mpt> kiko, that's why I raised them in conjunction :-)
<carlos> SteveA: it's blocked on TranslationReview, which I plan to have ready to merge between today and tomorrow (I should answer BjornT's review and merge it)
<danilos> mpt: for bug 44, we need rosetta db optimizations
<mpt> oh, ok
<kiko> mpt, the reason I abused 71283 to be critical is because it gives us searching very cheap
<mpt> so TranslationBrowsing is easier, then
<mpt> all right
<mpt>  * Bug #73761 (Missing support for any-i386 and linux-i386), Critical, Confirmed, cprov
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73761 in soyuz "Missing support for any-i386 and linux-i386" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73761
<mpt> cprov, you said "will sort an ETA during the next LP meeting". Now's your chance! :-)
<kiko> it's blocked on TranslationReview 
<SteveA> I agree with 71283 being critical
<kiko> but.. I'm okay with reducing it to high if you keep reminding us of it
<SteveA> it is interfering with adoption of rosetta
<cprov> mpt: yes, it should be done ASAP, because it's blocking sync of debian packages in feisty
<mpt> kiko, that's not abuse, it's fine -- if it was High it would go waaayyy down the list
<SteveA> as I found out over dinner last night
<kiko> it is indeed
<cjwatson> sync> (specifically grub2, which is a feisty goal)
<cprov> kiko: do you agree ? it should not take more than some hours 
<kiko> yeah, I agree
<kiko> perhaps malcc should do it though?
<kiko> malcc?
<mpt>  * Bug #73875 (private), Critical, Confirmed, unassigned
<Ubugtu> Bug 73875 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/73875 is private
<mpt> carlos, danilos, have you had time to consider this? :-) Does it need a spec?
<malcc> kiko: Happy to do it
<cprov> kiko: it would be nice if you can review it as well ;)
<kiko> malcc, get to it then.
<cprov> malcc: kiko: nice
<carlos> mpt: no, no need to write a spec
<mpt> ok, thanks carlos
<danilos> mpt: we'll have some time; do you have any special items you'd like to see there except those found on software's +translations page?
<carlos> mpt: it would be quite trivial to do it once TranslationReview is merged
<carlos> oh
<carlos> sorry
<carlos> mpt: I mixed two bugs....
<carlos> mpt: I didn't have time to think on it
<mpt> danilos, I'm not a good judge of what's on software's +translations pages, because I suffer from the Rosetta-doesn't-show-me-charts bug
<danilos> carlos: this is the bug you marked critical like 1h ago ;)
<carlos> yeah
<danilos> mpt: ah, ok, I'll look into it
<mpt> anyway
<mpt> That's all SteveA, thanks
<danilos> carlos: is that fine by you if I take it over?
<SteveA> thanks mpt 
<carlos> danilos: sure, go ahead
<mpt> and thanks to everyone else
<SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<SteveA> stuart is unwell
<carlos> danilos: we will review our queues when we are back
<SteveA> staging was down when I checked earlier today
<carlos> s/we are/I'm/
<danilos> carlos: ok
<SteveA> anyone know anything about that?
<jamesh> we had a few cherrypicks into production this week
<carlos> SteveA: no idea, but I can check now if you want
<kiko> all the regression oopses are now fixed in production
<kiko> the remaning oops is a rosetta oops which I've asked matsubara to fix
<SteveA> carlos: please do take a look
<carlos> ok
<jamesh> looks like staging can't connect to the database
<kiko> SteveA, at.. what? the remaining oops?
<matsubara> kiko: staging
<SteveA> kiko: at why staging isn't running
<SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<kiko> ah ok
<SteveA> let's hear how near we are to 1.0
<BjornT> Malone 1.0:
<BjornT> upstream-forwarding-workflow: No news, merged to RF, but not in production yet.
<BjornT> series-and-distrorelease-mgmt: Last parts (the productseries part) has been implemented. Some branches have been reviewed; two are still pending review.
<BjornT> guided-filebug-form: The UI change has been reviewed, it requires a few fixes. Also modified the search to use the same as the Answer tracker; that branch is pending code review.
<BjornT> removing-duplicate-comments: No news, still implemented.
<danilos> Rosetta 1.0  weekly report:
<danilos> - opening edgy for translation: DONE
<danilos> - firefox import/export: ff-import ready for review, ff-export being cleaned-up
<danilos> - oo import/export: no progress this week (tests, import implemented, export in progress)
<danilos> - translation review: pending to answer the review, need some UI changes after talk with kiko (todo after merge current tree in rocketfuel). Also needs the reviewer specific UI.
<danilos> - essential docs: no progress this week
<BjornT> malone-essential-docs: Started.
<danilos> - search: no progress this week, DB schema changes discussed at UDS
<BjornT> simple-bug-keywords: No news, still implemented.
<danilos> - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: not started
<danilos> - translation page for projects: bug 73875 (new task, not started)
<danilos> - ui fixes: DONE
<flacoste> Support^W Answer Tracker 1.0 Status Report
<flacoste> ==========================================
<flacoste> SupportTrackerViews: Missing the 'Needs Attention' report.
<flacoste> SupportTrackerHelp: 75% completed. Missing Highlights, help on native language support and polish.
<flacoste> LocalizedSupportRequests: 1/3 reviewed, 2/3 in review.
<flacoste> SupportTrackerRenaming: spec being reviewed by kiko
<Ubugtu> Bug 73875 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/73875 is private
<ddaa> supermirror-smart-server: All bzr code merged AFAIK. Spiv was supposed to write out plan for deployment.
<salgado> Random Things 1.0
<salgado> -------------------------------
<salgado> - SearchingProjects: started, good progress
<salgado> - PillarGotchis:  started
<cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =                                                            
<cprov> 
<cprov>  * PPA: ppa-build-support & ppa-poppy & ppa-publish (cprov, w-i-p)              
<cprov>  * Archive Rework: pending review (malcc, r=kiko)                               
<cprov>  * NoMoreAptFtparchive: pending better tests (cprov, r=bjornt)                  
<cprov>  * SyncSourceFixes: pending review (cprov, r=kiko)                              
<cprov>  * Code quality:                                                                
<cprov>    * NascentUpload first refactoring (kiko, under development)   
<ddaa> spiv: did you get the round tuits to write the supermirror-smart-server plan?
<salgado> mpt, I need two minutes of your time after the meeting. please don't leave without talking to me
<mpt> salgado, ok
<spiv> ddaa: SupermirrorSmartServerPlan on the wiki
<kiko> spiv, ddaa, why is this plan taking so long, btw? it would be nice to announce bzr+ssh for the SM!
<kiko> spiv, got an ETA for it? can I somehow help?
<ddaa> kiko: because it involved actually inventing the smart server in the first place...
<ddaa> kiko: and getting it all through the bzr devel process
<spiv> kiko: No ETA yet.
<SteveA> spiv posted the plan today
* kiko eyebrows ddaa
<SteveA> spiv and I need to have a talk about it + timing
<kiko> I know, but the code's already in 0.13
<kiko> SteveA, ok, keep me informed, I'm a major customer there
<SteveA> supermirror deployment is more complicated than what we use for devpad
<SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
<SteveA> 6
<SteveA> 5
<carlos> SteveA: staging is back
<SteveA> thanks carlos 
<SteveA> 4
<kiko> SteveA, I want to place a request for the additional stats.
<SteveA> 3
<kiko> can I?
<jamesh> the www.launchpad.net redirection cert?
<kiko> jamesh, yeah, that too.
<SteveA> kiko: what extra stats?
<kiko> SteveA, extra webstats. for our new vhosts.
<SteveA> sure, please do, and make sure stub is cc-ed
<kiko> I'll do so.
<flacoste> kiko: and ask for a consolidated report
<SteveA> jamesh: what's that about?
<jamesh> SteveA: we've got a redirect from https://www.launchpad.net/ to https://launchpad.net
<kiko> flacoste, I will. I had an idea for that, btw
<kiko> flacoste, what do you think of running a set through the logs before consolidating them, adding the virtualhost to the URLs?
<jamesh> SteveA: however, the request for "www.launchpad.net" is handled by the IP address with the "launchpad.net" certificate, instead of the IP with the "*.launchpad.net" certificate, so the user sees a hostname mismatch warning
<kiko> right
<SteveA> jamesh: okay.  then we should change that
<SteveA> 2
<SteveA> 1
<SteveA> ok
<kiko> thanks jamesh 
<SteveA>  * Answer tracker terminology  (mpt)
<kiko> yay! 
<kiko> thanks mpt
<flacoste> kiko: that would solve the same URL different views problem, but it will make same URL/same view appear as different
<kiko> (flacoste, which... I think is okay)
<mpt> The Support tracker is to be renamed to the Answer tracker
<mpt> I have concerns about reduced saleability of such an app, but that's N.O.M.B.
<mpt> Anyway, I have been asked to bring up action terminology at this meeting
<mpt> 1.0 has buttons for common tasks: "Take a tour", "Report a bug", "Register a branch", "Request support"
<flacoste> kiko: i don't, let' continue this after the meeting
<mpt> The last of these needs changing, and sabdfl suggested "Questions & answers"
<mpt> I propose "Ask a question" as more understandable (and consistent with the others)
<mpt> Any comments?
<ddaa> mpt: ++
<ddaa> (as usual)
<danilos> mpt: +1
<SteveA> kiko: will you bring this up in our call with mark tomorrow?
<flacoste> i think 'Request help' would be more appropriate, but that's not related to Answers
<kiko> SteveA, I can
<SteveA> thanks
<flacoste> so 'Ask a question' is probably the best 
<mpt> thanks SteveA 
<SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
<SteveA> 5
<SteveA> 4
<SteveA> 3
<SteveA> 2
<SteveA> 1
<SteveA> 0
<SteveA>  * Three sentences
<malcc> DONE: PPA, handover.
<malcc> TODO: More of the same, bug 73761.
<malcc> BLOCKED: No.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73761 in soyuz "Missing support for any-i386 and linux-i386" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73761
<ddaa> DONE: allhands, vacation, email catchup
<ddaa> TODO: catch up with reviews, flesh out 1h2007 plan, release cscvs before Jan. 1st
<ddaa> BLOCKED: no
<salgado> DONE: Code review, SearchingProjects, PillarGotchis
<salgado> TODO: Code review, finish SearchingProjects, PillarGotchis
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<jamesh> DONE: code reviews, url-utils branch fixups for new vhosting, bug import
<danilos> DONE: ff-import cleaned up, ready for review; some user support
<danilos> TODO: ff-export, OOo export, search, bug fixing
<danilos> BLOCKED: no
<jamesh> TODO: code reviews, bug import
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<matsubara> DONE: vacation, catching up, oops report analysis, support requests;
<matsubara> TODO: bug triage, fix #6385;
<matsubara> BLOCKED: no
<carlos> DONE: bug #68014 testing and review answer, TranslationReview review, bug-44214 review answer, user support.
<carlos> TODO: land bug #68014, #44214 and TranslationReview, vacations
<carlos> BLOCKED: No.
<flacoste> DONE: Reviews, bug fixes, wrote SupportTrackerRenaming spec and some other doc.
<flacoste> TODO: More bug fixes, implement 'Needs Attention' report, work on SupportTrackerRenaming once its approved.
<flacoste> BLOCKED: no
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
<BjornT> DONE: fixed a few things in malone-release-management and malone-guided-filebug. fixed a few bugs. started on malone documentation.
<mpt> DONE: 1.0 priority-1 pages, some priority-2 work
<mpt> TODO: finish 1.0
<mpt> BLOCKED: no, but priority-1 pages are missing DB work (I've filed bugs)
<spiv> DONE: reviews, smart server bits.
<spiv> TODO: reviews, supermirror smart server.
<spiv> BLOCKED: no
<BjornT> TODO: code reviews. address review comments in reviewed branches. more
<cprov> DONE: NoMoreAptFtparchive review, general bug fixing, ppa-publish               
<BjornT> malone documentation.
<cprov> TODO: finish ppa-publish                                                        
<cprov> BLOCKED: no
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no
<kiko> DONE: ubuntu classroom, a lot of email, set up interviews, raise some new issues, discuss QA with matsubara, randomicity
<SteveA> DONE: management stuff
<SteveA> TODO: management stuff, beta.launchpad.net
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<kiko> TODO: launchpad report [:-( ]  more classroom and clean out the remaining 163 emails
<kiko> BLOCKED: nah
<SteveA> kiko: please to prepare sentences in text editor and paste into channel
<stub> TODO: Interviews, pillar name urls, land now reviewed branches
<kiko> it can't possibly make a difference
<stub> DONE: pillar name urls
<stub> BLOCKED: Nope
<kiko> because you complain when I do and complain when I don't!
* ddaa tickles kiko
<SteveA> kiko: I'll show you logs from when no one did so, and logs from more recently.  far easier to read and understand
<kiko> SteveA, I DID SO TODAY
<SteveA> kiko: your irc thinggie sucks then!
<SteveA> get a new thinggie
* kiko tries to strangle SteveA with a thin wire
* SteveA notes that kiko is offline due to straining the thin wire
<spiv> kiko: you need to teach your IRC client to send those three lines in the same unfragmentable TCP packet ;)
<mpt> SteveA, I think the word you're looking for is "country's Internet connection"
<ddaa> gotta love mpt's accurate terminology!
<kiko> man people like to complain about irrelevant things!
<kiko> 4000 404s a day
<kiko> and all I get was a lousy complaint about TCP frags
<SteveA> each 404 takes 40 seconds off your life, you know
<SteveA> you should give them up
<mpt> It might be relevant if you read the logs, but it's not relevant if you read my luverly meeting notes
<kiko> yes, and you are sandbagging me regaining them via a 2-liner
<mpt> instead
<kiko> mpt, if you read the logs you have too much time on your hands ANYWAY
<SteveA> we have one more minute of the meeting
<SteveA> any findal thoughts?
<kiko> can we hate each other for this remaining 1 minute?
<mpt> A precautionary farewell to malcc, just in case he leaves early :-)
* kiko sends the hatewaves
* SteveA pheels the love
<salgado> 1 minute hate?
<ddaa> kiko: you need a vacation in a hostel in SF
<mpt> I thought it was supposed to be a Two-Minute Hate
<SteveA> ddaa: itchy scrotum?
<mpt> It's been too long since I've read that book, though
<jamesh> kiko: you could argue that since the arrowUp image is smaller than our 404 pages, we'd save bandwidth by fixing the CSS :)
<SteveA> ddaa: or not that kind of hostel?
* ddaa ostensibly fails to understand what SteveA is implying
<SteveA> wahey, 45 mins past
<mpt> jamesh, you saw how inconsequential Launchpad's bandwidth was
<SteveA> MEETING ENDS
<SteveA> thanks everyone
<malcc> Thanks
<kiko> jamesh, as usual insightful. you must support my fix!
<mpt> on elmo's pie chart
<mpt> salgado, yes?
<kiko> malcc, can you please make a point of doing your remaining activity reports?
<salgado> mpt, about SearchingProjects: The spec says that results whose title or name case-insensitively match the search text must be placed before other results. I don't think there'll be more than one result whose title or name will match exactly, so in case we get a single exact match I think we could simply teleport the user to that result's page. How does this sound?
<kiko> malcc, it really helps us when inquiries from above come!
<carlos> kiko: when are we going to have the meeting?
<danilos> kiko, carlos: a post-meeting meeting on db stuff?
<jamesh> mpt: every little bit counts, and I don't want to be held responsible for the heat death of the universe.
<carlos> kiko, danilos: now?
<carlos> (it's fine for me, just confirming)
<kiko> carlos, danilos: sure thing
<carlos> here?
<danilos> fine by me as well
<kiko> #launchpad-meeting is the name of the game
<mpt> salgado, I already commented on that
<carlos> ok
<mpt> salgado, "I disagree -- I think "How many Firefox-related projects are using Launchpad?" is an important use case. (Currently we don't distinguish between active projects and merely-registered ones, but we should.) If you like, though, you could add "!" in search strings as an "I'm Feeling Lucky" operator.  -- MatthewPaulThomas"
<danilos> I guess it won't be bad to have stub there either, if he's feeling well enough
<salgado> oh, crap. I thought I was subscribed to that spec. thanks mpt
<ddaa> mpt: ++++
<mpt> salgado, well, to be fair, I did make that reply only a few minutes ago :-)
<salgado> ah, you cheater!
<mpt> salgado, and if there isn't anything else you want me for right now, cjwatson wanted to talk with you after the meeting
<ddaa> mpt: just talked with a guy a couple of days ago who said "glad to see that Launchpad is not dead. I looked at the tar project a while ago and it had [etc..] "
<salgado> mpt, no, that should be it
<ddaa> all this registered dud crap is damaging the first impression of people into believing that launchpad is mostly driftwood.
<salgado> cjwatson, pong?
<mpt> ddaa, and it had what? As in, wildly inaccurate maintainership data -> death of Launchpad?
<ddaa> mpt: something like "just three open bugs nobody ever replied to" or something like this
<mpt> oh
<mpt> I reported a bug about that in particular
<ddaa> my point being that people do not see the distinction between "registered" and "active", and it's pretty essential to what launchpad is. Same problem as with people.
<ddaa> s/people/persons/
<mpt> ddaa, yeah, I was just going to say the same thing
<mpt> salgado, we need ProductCreationRationale! ;-)
<ddaa> inactive looks dead, makes people think people have tried and abandoned launchpad
<mpt> I can't find the bug report easily, because the only word I remember from the summary is "Malone", and Malone doesn't know how to search for that
* ddaa wonders if PersonCreationRationale supports "leaky condom"...
<mpt> "(no children)"
<mpt> ah, there it is
<mpt> bug 33642
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33642 in malone "Weed out open non-bugwatch bugs on products/distros that don't use Malone" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33642
<mpt> ddaa, I read that Google Code Hosting will automatically delete projects that are inactive for long enough
<ddaa> mpt: actually there's also the problem of stuff that was registered in the vcs-import-death-march, which has now grown widly innacurate because nobody cares about it.
<salgado> BjornT, I don't understand "Switch so that the current release task is the conjoined master, instead the general distribution/product task.". can you explain that to me?
<kiko> mpt, okay, so about thie redirection thing, I think that 10000 more users type in firefox wanting to be teleported to the firefox product than users wanting to find firefox related products.
<ddaa> mpt: actually, I'd support deleting all registry-owned products and projects that did not see any "real activity".
<kiko> mpt, is there a good way of doing that without using magic syntax?
<mpt> kiko, sure, an explicit "I'm Feeling Lucky" button
<mpt> The same applies to most Web searches
<ddaa> at the very least, a product should have some involvement from a distro or upstream member
<kiko> mpt, that button is too wide.
<mpt> (and I can confidently say "most" after staring at the monitor in Building 44)
<mpt> ddaa, that makes it harder to register a bug as occurring upstream
<BjornT> salgado: sure. you might want to take a look at https://launchpad.canonical.com/ConjoinedBugTasks (which i've forgotten to update, though)
<mpt> kiko, it's also trademarked, but you know what I mean :-)
<ddaa> mpt: I'd count occurence registering a bugwatch as "real activity"
<mpt> kiko, how about "Go"?
<mpt> ddaa, oh, fair enough
<kiko> mpt, [ search ]  [ go ]  ?
<kiko> won't that be confusing? I like it though
<kiko> [ search ]  [ jump ] 
<kiko> [ search ]  [ teleport! ] 
<mpt> http://reddit.com/info/bcxt/comments/cbd3s
<mpt> Something else has "Search" and "Go"
<ddaa> mpt: though right, there's still a point in having it clearly explained that "this product is not using launchpad, it's just here so we can represent upstream bugs"
<mpt> who is it
<BjornT> salgado: if you target a bug to the current development release, for example feisty, then you have two bugtasks; one on ubuntu, and one on feisty.
<salgado> BjornT, I know a bit about conjoined bugtasks. I read that spec to review one of your branches some time ago. I have the impression that the sentence means the conjoined task is now the master instead of the general task. is that right?
<mpt> kiko, Wikipedia does it </datapoint>
<kiko> mpt, okay, I'd be happy for a search and go thing
<cjwatson> salgado: Hello. I meant to discuss https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/MoreUserConfig with some Launchpad developers at allhands, but didn't get round to it. The relevant/scary bit is LP person creation from the Ubuntu installer.
* ddaa goes thing
<cjwatson> salgado: I talked about this briefly with lifeless at UDS, but it needs rather more thought ...
<BjornT> salgado: ah, ok. so to sum up. previously the ubuntu task was editable, and the changes was automatically synced to the feisty task. this cause a problem when you wanted to defer a bug to the next release, since you'd have to reject the ubuntu task, and thus rejecting the whole bug in practically all the releases.
<kiko> salgado, did you see my point above?
<salgado> BjornT, ah, I see. an now one can edit the release task?
<BjornT> salgado: the branches changes it so that the feisty task is now the editable one, so that you can reject that one.
<salgado> kiko, yeah, I saw. [ Search ]  [ Go ] .  is that it?
<salgado> cjwatson, right, I'm having a look at the spec now
<BjornT> salgado: this is needed, since in a later branch, if the feisty task is rejected, the conjoined relationship will break, and the ubuntu task will stay open.
<kiko> salgado, if mpt likes that button layout, then yes. mpt?
<salgado> he left already, kiko
<BjornT> salgado: so yes, one can now edit the release task instead of the ubuntu task.
<kiko> salgado, well, go for it
<cjwatson> salgado: the driver for this is a request from Mark, which was originally phrased as having Ubiquity encourage people to create SIP phone accounts on our servers tied to Launchpad accounts. There has been some, erm, "frank discussion" among me, sabdfl, mdz, elmo about that.
<cjwatson> salgado: The last word I had from mdz was to have Ubiquity able to create Launchpad accounts as a sort of extension of its existing user creation work, but it's not entirely clear to me that that will be the final form. However, whatever the presentation, it looks like I'm going to need to be able to create LP accounts without necessarily having a validatedemail.
<cjwatson> which I understand makes LP people shudder as a general rule
<SteveA> cjwatson: what is Ubiquity?
<cjwatson> SteveA: The Ubuntu installer used on the desktop CDs.
<cjwatson> New as of Ubuntu 6.06.
<SteveA> so, for everything except server?
<kiko> cjwatson, I like "frank"
<cjwatson> no, just for desktop. (there's also the alternate install CD, for situations where ubiquity is too simple.)
<BjornT> salgado: hmm, now that i read ConjoinedBugTasks again, i see that i actually implement it as the spec describes it :) don't know why it was done differently before.
<kiko> cjwatson, hmmm. why do you want unvalidated LP accounts accounts? do you want a phone call? :-)
<salgado> cjwatson, we already had a few people complaining because we create launchpad profiles automatically. by default, any profile created can only use the launchpad/shipit/wiki services if it has gone through the email validation process
<cjwatson> kiko: users in the middle of the Ubuntu installer often either don't have an e-mail account yet because they just got their computer, or can't easily get at it.
<kiko> cjwatson, why do they need a launchpad account, though? ;-)
<cjwatson> because Mark wants me to offer them services that depend on LP auth
<SteveA> I have an opinion on this
<ddaa> http://reddit.com/info/bcxt/comments
<ddaa> > Because google code actually gives the project admin the ability to delete the project (unlike sf.net), I think it'll be tidier than the competition.
<ddaa> > OH HELL YES. I have some old dead sourceforge projects that I wish I could delete, but instead they just stay there and shame me.  I try not to think about them.
<ddaa> > same here.
<kiko> well, I've been deactivating products that are bogus or dead
<salgado> mpt, so, kiko's suggestions ([ Search ]  [ Go ] ). are you okay with that?
* carlos -> lunch
<carlos> later
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73901 in launchpad "Launchpad's CSS wrongly references an image causing lots of 404's" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73901
<kiko> thanks matsubara 
<matsubara> kiko: you're welcome
<LarstiQ> during allhands/uds there was a bof on Rosetta output copyright status afaik. I didn't see any results of that though. What's the current status?
<jordi> hey guys, sorry for missing the meeting
<jordi> I was needed somewhere away from the keyboard here.
<danilos> LarstiQ: it's being worked on, we're aiming for clear and simple solution (sometimes unattainable, but here's hoping ;): we also had great input on UDS about it
<LarstiQ> danilos: any idea about the timeframe?
<kiko> LarstiQ: should be soon enough. let me touch base with carlos and danilo to find out
<LarstiQ> kiko: ok. It has been RSN for a while.
<kiko> yeah, I know.
<kiko> carlos, danilos: are you two interested in some scheduling conversations today?
<kiko> we could do it over the phone, would probably be easier
<danilos> kiko: I am fine by it, but make it before 17:30UTC, or after 22:00UTC, I've got some "stuff"
<kiko> it can be soon
<danilos> kiko: lets at least wait for carlos to come back from lunch
<kiko> ok.
<danilos> ;)
<kiko> I wish my mac mini could do dual-head
<danilos> (risking this to be taken out of context) I wish I could do dual-head.
<kiko> !
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> stop it. I get flash-backs :-P
<danilos> need to reboot, brb
<salgado> BjornT, is it correct to say that the master will always be targeted to the current release (or the product series that has the development focus)?
<carlos> kiko, danilos: I'm back
<BjornT> salgado: well. the current release will always be the master.
<salgado> BjornT, right, but what if there's no bugtask targeting the current release? what will be the master?
<salgado> is that a possible scenario?
<salgado> (I think it should be, but IMBW, of course)
<BjornT> salgado: that's certainly a possible scenario. in that case there won't be any conjoined bug tasks, so there won't be any master.
<mpt> salgado, that's fine
<salgado> "But when a bug is targeted to the current release, we have two bugtasks ..."
<salgado> I misread that and thought that targeting at any release would cause us to have two bugtasks
<salgado> thanks BjornT. it makes sense now
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73922 in rosetta "tsclient translation template missing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73922
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73923 in rosetta "No translation template for gqview" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73923
<civija> hy
<civija> i just noticed that rosseta upload service has been disabled
<civija> does anyone know when it will be in function again?
<salgado> carlos, ^
<salgado> I think it'll be back soon, civija. carlos should be able to give as a concrete date for that
<carlos> civija: it should happen this week (I hope tomorrow)
<carlos> at least that's my goal, in the worse case, Monday
<civija> carlos: ok, thanks!
<civija> there is no hurry :)
<carlos> there is ;-)
<civija> :)
<radix> hmm, the pypy import test failed :(
<LarstiQ> ddaa: ^^
<kiko> radix, imports are fun!
<LarstiQ> kiko: they give ddaa something to do!
<kiko> carlos, danilos: hey old men
<kiko> SteveA, can I use the conference calling thingamajigy?
<radix> kiko: I know, ddaa was telling all sorts of fun stories at allhands :)
<danilos> hey kiko
<kiko> hey!
<carlos> kiko: hi
<kiko> carlos, let me sort out calling procedure
<carlos> phone call?
<carlos> ok
<kiko> ye
<carlos> I guess you are at .br right?
<carlos> so no voip for you...
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> well I have a vonage number
<carlos> what's that?
<kiko> it's a voip thing
<kiko> with a real phone number
<carlos> is it a SIP phone?
<carlos> maybe I could call you...
<kiko> it is but I think it's a separate sip network
<kiko> carlos, can you do conferences?
<salgado> BjornT, review sent
<kiko> 1 612 216 4935
<kiko> carlos, ^^^
<carlos> hmmm, I think my wengo account allows that, but I never tried it
<kiko> good job salgado
<carlos> kiko: how's that it works but normal SIP phone doesn't?
<carlos> I thought it was a Brazilian company
<kiko> carlos, it's an american phone number
<carlos> I know
<carlos> so your link is redirected to .br using TCP/IP
<carlos> right?
<kiko> yes
<kiko> give me a ring
<carlos> kiko: http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic5117.html
<carlos> kiko: it works like a normal SIP phone
<ddaa> radix: I haven't done my daily round of importd babysitting, but I'll look at pypy right now
<radix> ddaa: no worries :)
<ddaa> okay, looks like to be the usual "the server does not have 6 nines of reliability"
<ddaa> I would really like to have cscvs talk libsvn_ra instead of libsvn_client to save on the session count, I expect that would help a lot
<danilos> kiko: no one's answering for me
<radix> ddaa: hmm, what's that mean, the svn server couldn't handle the load of trying to do the import?
* ddaa restarts the testing
<ddaa> not quite
<ddaa> I believe cscvs creates a few sequential session for every file text
<kiko> danilos, that's because my battery just died. fun eh?
<kiko> danilos, can your phone do conferencing?
<ddaa> so if, like, one in 10000 connection attempts fail, it breaks the whole import
<radix> ddaa: ohh, wow. ok
<danilos> kiko: it should be able to (I just got new ISDN line, and noticed that in the manual), but I've never tried it... it can at least do 3-way calls
<kiko> danilos, okay, cool. let's try the call in precisely one hour then
<danilos> kiko: hum, ok... your number? my number? canonical? :)
<kiko> danilos, let carlos sort it out. bbi1h
<ddaa> and the import system does not really know enough to figure if it's safe to continue from the previous state
<danilos> kiko: fine by me ;)
<carlos> danilos: could you connect your sip cliente for Canonical?
<kiko> SteveA, how do you organize conference calls with carlos/danilo when you did?
<carlos> kiko: he used skype
<kiko> poor SteveA
<carlos> well, I never used that with danilo and Steve, but we used skype to talk with you
<kiko> right.
<SteveA> kiko: we used skype, and skypeout
<SteveA> or maybe just skype
<carlos> skype + skypeout
<carlos> first for Carlos and Steve and the later for kiko
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> SteveA, amazingly jamesh beats us all to it and lands one of mark's specs!
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73947 in rosetta "Too easy to make duplicate translations" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73947
<ddaa> jordi: okay, I partially diagnosed the gtetrinet failure
<ddaa> it appears to be the same problem as xmrs
<ddaa> https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImportRequests#head-a79ab48c0ce37d2d84062a8dc0d535c364879f2d
<ddaa> unfortunately, it's a bug in the craziest part of cscvs, and I'm afraid it won't receive attention in the near future
<SteveA> ddaa: which part of cscvs is that?
<ddaa> the one that creates changesets
<ddaa> from the cvs log
<ddaa> i already discussed this problem with lifeless, and he gave me a way to tackle this specific problem, but I'm quite scared by this code
<SteveA> does it have tests?
<ddaa> it does seem to have a lot of test, though they are not organised in a very readable manner, to say the least
<ddaa> I think it was pretty much rewritten by lifeless in 2004
<ddaa> so it's got the usual lifeless-test-coverage
<SteveA> well, I could look at the code with you, or we could ask lifeless to look at the issue
<ddaa> sure. But if you look at this page https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImportRequests you'll see it's not really the most important bug to fix...
<salgado> SteveA, are we going to drop the product, distro and project strings from our URLs before 1.0?
<ddaa> SteveA: but thanks for proposing to help. I'll keep it in mind, and hold you to your word when I really need to go and fix this code.
<SteveA> salgado: yes
<salgado> does anybody know why we use a default_batch_size = 5 on the default config but use something else (75, I think) on the testrunner config?
<kiko> hmm, I do not.
<salgado> SteveA, do you know if there is a specific reason for that ^?
<danilos> salgado: isn't 75 the size of batch in bug comments (or I just mistakenly remember about reading it somewhere), so could that be related?
<salgado> danilos, yeah, that is related
<salgado> 75 is the default value of default_batch_size
<salgado> we override it on the default config file, but not for the testrunner
<SteveA> salgado: probably just a mistake.  or, to allow batching to be tested interactively with the small amount of sampledata we use
<salgado> yeah, that's the reason for having default_batch_size=5 on the default config, AFAIK. and that's why I think we should have that for the testrunner too
<SteveA> I agree
<salgado> I'll keep that line there and see if tests will break
<salgado> SteveA, do you have a minute for a quick question?
<jordi> carlos: bug 73947 proposes daily merging of dapper -> edgy -> feisty
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73947 in rosetta "Too easy to make duplicate translations" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73947
<jordi> how feasible is that?
<static> anyone got a clever .procmailrc recipe for sorting bug email from launchpad using the X-Launchpad-Bug header?
<carlos> jordi: not possible at all, as we do it right now
<carlos> jordi: that's exactly TranslationMulticast spec
<carlos> and it's planned
<jordi> I know :)
<jordi> how do you do the stable -> next stable merge when you do it by hand?
<carlos> jordi: with a bunch of db rows copy
<carlos> that's a quite expensive task
<carlos> and require turning off Rosetta because the amount of rows touched is huge
<jordi> oh I forgot that, yes
<salgado> static, I don't, but beware that it's very hard to keep up with launchpad's bugmail, even if you're only subscribed to launchpad-bugs
<static> salgado: thanks :) I have no intention of subscribing to launchpad bugs. I've joined a couple of teams, and now am getting bug mail from those projects
<salgado> static, what I do is to search for the new ones every day and subscribe to the ones I'm interested, so that any future bugmail about that specific bug will fall into my inbox
<SteveA> salgado: hey
<SteveA> salgado: ask me
<salgado> SteveA, to implement SearchingProjects I wrote a method which does a single search across three different tables (Product,Project,Distribution) and returns dictionaries with some common attributes these tables have
<salgado> the question is: where should this method go?
<SteveA> IProjectSEt
<salgado> SteveA, we also have IPillarSet. would that be a worst place than IProjectSet?
<SteveA> that would be okay too
<salgado> (I also have to note that IPillarSet seems to have been renamed to IPillarNameSet in one of stub's branches)
* salgado checks
<kiko> that would be better than IProjectSet I think
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73975 in launchpad-bazaar "Email notification for subscribed branches is not implemented" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73975
<ddaa> the first person to giggle will be slapped!
<matsubara> why would some giggle?
<ddaa> because https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/code-review is predicated on the availability of email notifications for branches.
<ddaa> And actually this feature was intended to be implemented... like... one year ago, shortly after UBZ.
<matsubara> I see
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73967 in malone "bug rejected by unqualified individuals" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73967
<static> If I want to hack on Tomboy https://launchpad.net/products/tomboy using bzr and use launchpad to store my branch, what's the right way to do it? Do I just check out the CVS and then import it into bazaar and then push my own branch to launchpad? Or is there a way to request a bzr import thingy?
<ddaa> static: enter the CVS details in the trunk series of the tomboy product
<ddaa> (or svn is they are using svn)
<ddaa> If you are lucky, you'll get an bzr import updated daily.
<static> ddaa: ok, thanks. this is just one module in the Gnome CVS repository, and it has anonymous access, so I'll try that.
<ddaa> (takes up to a couple of working days)
<ddaa> if you are unlucky, it will exercise some bug in our conversion back end, and there's no telling when I'll get around to fixing it
<ddaa> though I would eventually will, beyound any doubt
<static> ddaa: aha, I see this was already done. Status is test failed. 
<ddaa> Okay I'll look into it.
<static> ddaa: ok, it's not urgent at all, I mostly wanted to understand how to request it for a project. Thanks for your help.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #73984 in launchpad "non-ASCII characters are not sorted properly" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73984
<lifeless> BjornT: 7000 line patch :(
<kiko> lifeless, what's that about?
<lifeless> 1  1   bjorn/launchpad/malone-release-management-6  3722  7091  clean  00:00
<kiko-afk> lifeless, it's life. it's been looked at before though
<LarstiQ> ouch
<lifeless> kiko-afk: I'm not sure what your point is. Mine was just expressing surprise and mild unhappiness, particularly as bjorn knows exactly what reviewing one of those mothers is like - he got landed with the last one
<kiko-afk> lifeless, my point is that this is an old branch that brad started and bjorn picked up and that has already been reviewed and even landed in RF once.
<lifeless> kiko-afk: I didn't know the history
<kiko-afk> yeah, I know. I was sharing it with you 8)
<lifeless> thank you :)
<kiko-afk> I am uberhappy to hear about this manganese thing that j-a-meinel tells me
<lifeless> manganese ?
<kiko-afk> a new box for bzr imports!
<lifeless> one-offs I imagine
<kiko-afk> yeah
<kiko-afk> for bzr migration imports
<kiko-afk> being more explicit
<lifeless> makes sense
<kiko-afk> yeah. 
<kiko-afk> a shared box for people to garden a big import is just what we need
<kiko-afk> okay, let me take a typing break
<kiko-afk> email is all good
<sfllaw> keescook, pitti: I presume you guys already know about the GPG buffer overflow.  CVE-2006-6169.
<sfllaw> Sorry.  EWRONGCHANNEL.
<kiko-afk> TOTALLY wrong channel
* carlos -> bed
<carlos> night
<aleka> I had applied to join a translation to (approval needed) long time ago. Emailed the owner twice with a month interval. I also had questions on how to enable my native language (amharic) keyboard support and wanted to ask other team members as the owner of the team is not responding.. how can I send other users a message? or how can I make contact with other team members?
<lifeless> you should be able to see the teams members in launchpad
<lifeless> jordi: perhaps you can help with aleka's other questions ?
<aleka> I can see their usernames, but no contact info
<aleka> I just feel helpless as I see so many projects unfunished and to know that i can translate most of them and not being able to is just frustrating
<lifeless> are you logged in? have you clicked through to the people
<lifeless> aleka: I can understand that. jordi is probably the best person to help you though, he knows all about the teams etc
<aleka> I am logged in and all I see under details when clicking on a user is a link to a wiki page that hasn't been created yet
<lifeless> aleka: they must have set their details to hide
<lifeless> aleka: I can't do much for you myself. Here are some options for escalating this...
<lifeless> contact jordi via email, or the rosetta-users mailing list.
<lifeless> file a support request
#launchpad 2006-12-01
<aleka> ok.. thanks..
<dsas> Hi, Am I dreaming or did LP use to have a calendar function? I can't seem to find it.
<LarstiQ> dsas: it used to, see https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/+calendar
<dsas> LarstiQ: Hm, ok...
<dsas> thanks :)
<dsas> As long as I'm not going crazy. :)
<LarstiQ> dsas: that I do not know, but you are right that there used to be a calendar :)
<Dominus_Suu1> hey, I think I'm an idiot and disabled my wiki.ubuntu account forever :(
<Dominus_Suu1> could someone help me get my wiki account back, please?
<BjornT> lifeless: re the 7000-line patch. you notice that there are several malone-release-management branch. the first one is 6000 lines, and i'm not responsible for it, it's brad's work. then follow 5 other branches which makes the total diff 7000 lines.
<BjornT> lifeless: so it's really a 1000 line diff spread out on 5 different branches, you can't be unhappy about that :)
<BjornT> lifeless: it might be a good idea to extend the pending-review page, though, so that these kind of things get easier to see. (basically allowing one to say that branch foo is based on branch bar, which hasn't been merged into rf yet)
<spiv> BjornT: hmm, that's probably a good idea.  It's increasingly common that branches in the review queue depend on other branches.
<stub> Is there a reason sync() is not public on our database classes?
<stub> jamesh: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file2r2gTl.html
<spiv> stub: none that I can think of.
<jamesh> stub: looks good.
<stub> ok. landing.
<jamesh> stub: when I last looked at sync()/syncUpdate(), we were looking to see if it was easy to automatically expose them on all SQLObjects
<stub> tricky?
<jamesh> but our security framework doesn't make that particularly easy
<stub> I've only ever had an issue in tests so far, and flush_database_updates is just as good in that case.
<jamesh> I added canonical.launchpad.ftests.syncUpdate(), which can be used from tests
<stub> ok
<jamesh> it unwraps the security proxy and calls syncUpdate()
<jamesh> unless you are doing data modifying SQL, syncUpdate() is usually what you want rather than sync()
<lifeless> BjornT: can you please file a bug on launhcpad-development-infrastructure about the enhancement to do
<BjornT> sure
<lifeless> thanks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74011 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "Allow saying against which branch a diff should be produced from" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74011
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74017 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "launchpad-developer-dependencies package should require bzr-pqm" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74017
<carlos> morning
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74019 in launchpad-development-infrastructure "Please provide launchpad-*-dependencies packages for dapper at lpdebs.canonical.com" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74019
<jordi> lifeless: ah, I was sleeping when Aleka came in
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74025 in launchpad "Cache problems with doc tests" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74025
<careyo> if someone registers a product on launchpad, are they able to request it be removed from launchpad (for whatever reason)?
<jordi> careyo: it can be hidden
<jordi> ie, deactivated
<careyo> jordi: I see, and that is able to be done by who? I am guessing by the person who registered the product.
<careyo> or does it have to be requested, and someone higher up does it?
<jordi> requested
<careyo> ok
<careyo> just curious, thanks
<jordi> (and argumented :)
<careyo> fair enough :)
<danilos> jordi: ping
<jordi> pong
<salgado> hey stub, might you have some time to review my db patch on pillar-gotchis today?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74031 in launchpad-bazaar "supermirror pull frequency should be more transparent" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74031
<stub> salgado: You need UPDATE person SET emblem=NULL WHERE teamowner IS NULL AND emblem IS NOT NULL;
<stub> Because some people have emblems
<stub> salgado: (before adding the CHECK constraint of course)
<stub> salgado: With that, r=stub, patch-67-34-0.sql
<salgado> stub, will do that change. thanks a lot!
<stub> shouldn't we be scaling them?
<salgado> stub, you mean, generating the emblem from the gotchi?
<stub> yes
<stub> currently looks like users upload the large image, and it automatically gets stored as the smaller ones too despite the comments saying there are max pixel sizes.
<salgado> kiko was concerned about that, because you usually will have to tweak an image (removing small details), to make it clear what it is in such a small size
<stub> but ianar (i am not a reviewer)
<salgado> stub, that'd be a bug, IIUC. where you see that?
<stub>  class PersonHackergotchiView(GeneralFormView): def process
<stub> oh - ignore me
<salgado> btw, that view is already gone. my pillar-gotchis-2 branch should be up for review soon
<cprov> good morning, folks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74032 in launchpad-bazaar "users should be able to request immediate mirroring" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74032
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74033 in launchpad-bazaar "configurable pull interval for mirror branches" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74033
<SteveA> ddaa: hi
<SteveA> ddaa: I replied about your help text email.  Thanks for writing that, and doing the help text except where you're blocked on it.
<kiko> good morning
<salgado> do we have a special tag for ui-1.0 bugs?
<kiko> there's a ui tag
<kiko> but nothing related to 1.0
<kiko> note however that we will be able to target bugs to releases soon
<salgado> yeah, I'm using the ui tag for now
<SteveA> I think using the ui tag is enough
<SteveA> because we should not do much more work on the old ui
<salgado> BjornT, everything looks good on your malone-release-management-3 branch. r=salgado
<kiko> wow
<kiko> that's a momentous r=salgado
<kiko> good job
<kiko> hey carlos, danilos 
<danilos> hey kiko
<carlos> kiko: hey
<kiko> how's the weather?
<kiko> it's rocky with a southern current here
<danilos> 8 degrees celsius, pretty foggy ;)
<danilos> but it should clear up towards the evening
<carlos> I guess today will rain here.. ;-)
<danilos> kiko: "clearing up" was re ff ;)
<BjornT> thanks salgado
* carlos hates timestamp handling in launchpad/sqlobject
<kiko> carlos, what's bothering you?
<carlos> It's mostly fixed, but "CURRENT_TIMESTAMP AT TIME ZONE 'UTC'" is being cached by sqlobject when it should get a valid date
<kiko> well
<carlos> kiko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/74025
<kiko> isn't that the time of the transaction?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74025 in launchpad "Cache problems with doc tests" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<carlos> kiko: It happens after commit
<carlos> even fetching the objects again
<quicksilver> I may have confused launchpad in my attempts to register. Anyone help me unconfuse it?
<salgado> quicksilver, sure. what happened?
<quicksilver> I started the registration process as jules@jellybean.co.uk
<quicksilver> but I didn't complete it because some one pointed out I was already tehre
<quicksilver> https://launchpad.net/people/jules <--- this is me
<quicksilver> So  I clicked 'Hey, I'm Jules Bean' and told it to email info to jules@debian.org
<quicksilver> which I guess would be the address it has for me
<quicksilver> never got that email though :(
<salgado> did it say that the email was sent to jules@debian.org?
<quicksilver> yes
<salgado> and how long ago was that?
<quicksilver> and I did test myself sending a mail to jules@debian.org and the address does appear to work
<quicksilver> 5 minutes ago, maybe?
<salgado> I remember we had some delays when delivering emails, in some rare occasions. it may be the case here. :/
<quicksilver> ah ok
<quicksilver> I'll go have lunch and see if that helps
<quicksilver> having lunch often helps :)
<salgado> heh. indeed. if it doesn't help launchpad it surely helps you. :)
<salgado> in my case it helps a lot
<salgado> quicksilver, I guess you've checked your spam filters, just to be sure?
<quicksilver> salgado: I did better than that, I checked my exim logs
<quicksilver> salgado: definitely nothing from launchpad. Well just the one message from the registration attempt I aborted
<salgado> well, then it must be a delay issue. if it doesn't arrive after you finish having lunch I'll investigate with the sysadmins
<quicksilver> ddaa: bah, looks like master.debian.org sat on the email for 32 minutes
<quicksilver> salgado: that was for you, really :)
<salgado> heh
<salgado> that was a quick lunch, eh?
<quicksilver> haven't eaten it yet, just bought it :)
<salgado> ah, right. :)
<salgado> but the email arrived, finally?
* quicksilver nods
<quicksilver> woo now I can edit that bzr bug
<quicksilver> which is what this was all about
<salgado> cool.
<salgado> quicksilver, we also have an email interface for that. it might be handy in case you're used to debbugs
<ddaa> well, now you can also edit bugs on ubuntu, request free CD, translate applications in Outer-Qwghlmian, host bzr branches and more :)
<ddaa> Though the outstanding question is whether one would really want to translate application in Outer-Qwghlmian
<quicksilver> my Outer-Qwghlmian is fairly rusty, alas
<carlos> salgado: review answered. Do you think would be possible to get an answer today?
<carlos> BjornT: I have another review answer for you (still working on it) would you have sometime later today to handle it?
<ddaa> SteveA: kiko: I'm getting tired of writing. So feedback sought on https://launchpad.canonical.com/Bazaar1h2007
<salgado> carlos, I'll try my best. what time are you leaving?
<ddaa> I will put in more details for the vcs-imports and dogfood sections later.
<SteveA> ddaa: mail launchpad list, and I'll look next week
<carlos> salgado: when that's done
<carlos> salgado: I will be at home, so I will be around
<carlos> salgado: thanks
<sabdfl> ddaa: it's good, but it's a bit confused, needs to be more "boom boom boom" IYKWIM
<sabdfl> i.e. "These are the top priorities for Bazaar-Launchpad in 2007"
<sabdfl> do you want me to climb in a bit?
<sabdfl> at the moment it talks a lot about how success should feel, but not about what is planned to be delivered
<kiko> sabdfl, ddaa: why are we prioritizing using text? I thought we'd do that using 1.1 and 1.2 goals. or is this to prepare 1.1 and 1.2?
<BjornT> carlos: i'm not sure i'll have time to look at it today, we'll see. if not, i'll look at it on monday for sure.
<sabdfl> kiko: its nice to have a descriptive rationale for the roadmap alongside the actual listings
<kiko> sabdfl, my concern is that it's very easy for that rationale to go very out of date as soon as we start changing the listings mid-process.
<sabdfl> kiko: agreed, but it's a short term (1-2Q) roadmap
<kiko> right, cool
<SteveA> sabdfl: I'd like ddaa to actually do the writing on this
<SteveA> so, I'd prefer you to give him specific feedback (or relay that via our conf call that is soon)
<ddaa> sabdfl: you've been watching too many Steve Jobs keynotes :)
<ddaa> Note that I just renamed the page to https://launchpad.canonical.com/Bazaar2007h1#preview
<kiko> what's h1?
<sabdfl> 1st half of the year
<SteveA> 1st half
* kiko shrugs
<SteveA> standard abbrs: q1, h1, w1
<SteveA> quarter, half, week
<sabdfl> ddaa: never watched one. must be something we have in common, along with being royal pains in the neck to work for ;-)
<SteveA> sabdfl: I hope someone buys you a dark turtle-neck for xmas
<ddaa> sabdfl: at allhands some watched a video that collated "boom"s said by Steve Jobs during keynotes, quite funny
<ddaa> but not quite as funny as the video that collates all the "fuck" in the Big Lebowsky :)
<sabdfl> i'd be glad to do my own personal boom-fuck anthology
<ddaa> sabdfl: please feel free to edit the document. This is just an early brain dump.
<ddaa> Not that the "use cases" section is definitely tongue-in-cheek :)
<ddaa> I do plan to dig into more detail, if only to get more confidence that these are reasonable goals for the intended time fram.
<carlos> BjornT: ok, thanks
<matsubara> kiko, carlos, danilos: what was the outcome of your meeting yesterday about the +translate page?
<kiko> matsubara, I'm going to do the query rewrites since the other alternatives will take longer to do.
<matsubara> kiko: ok, thanks
<SteveA> ddaa: there's a question about hiding / deleting branches on launchpad-users
<SteveA> fyi
<ddaa> ah... just when I thought I was running out of "soft" things to do and could handle some reviews...
<sabdfl> ddaa: i've made a start, need to do some other work, will return to this later
<salgado> carlos, ping
<sabdfl> SteveA, kiko, ddaa: OK, i'm happy with that https://launchpad.canonical.com/Bazaar2007h1 page now :-)
<sabdfl> i'm sure it could do with more work but the roadmap is a clearer reflection of the things we have already talked about
<sabdfl> it would be good to map these items to specs / bugs
<sabdfl> also, to get poolie's input
<danilos> carlos: ping
<kiko> okay, let me dash for some lunch, sabdfl, SteveA: back in 15
<sabdfl> see you on the call kiko
<now3d> Hello, could some direct me to documenation so I can assign this bug to language-support-en please?  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/28226
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28226 in Ubuntu "en install ends up with en_US packages being installed" [Medium,Rejected]  
<matsubara> now3d: click the 'Ubuntu' link below the Affects: and choose a package name
<carlos> salgado: pong
<matsubara> now3d: that's bug 1095, btw
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1095 in malone "Unnecessarily difficult to find how to change status or reassign a bug" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1095
<salgado> carlos, when you have a branch that you want to land ASAP, you should try really hard to keep it very concise. you added quite some code to your bug-68014 branch since my first review. and more code means more chances of having things that would block the landing, as well as lot more effort from your reviewer
<carlos> the thing is that I missed a kind of notification...
<now3d> matsubara: Ok, thanks
<salgado> it would have been okay if that code was necessary to fix that bug, but it is not, as you pointed
<carlos> sorry, phone...
<SteveA> sabdfl: can we have a pre-call call?
<sabdfl> stub you beauty
<sabdfl> SteveA: sure
<carlos> salgado: well, most of it was needed to send the notification email
<carlos> salgado: the only thing I did was add two extra notification emails
* SteveA dials in
<carlos> salgado: if that's a problem, I'm happy to split out those concrete changes. Is quite easy to split them out into another branch, I could even commit them as trivial later (most changes were related with tests because the amount of lines is quite big to check that)
<SteveA> sabdfl: I'm in the conf call now
<sabdfl> me too
<kiko-fud> so am I
<dmbasso> hello
<salgado> carlos, well, since now I'm halfway through the second review it'd be worst to split it, I think. the problem is that it may not be possible for you to land this branch today, since I may not have time for a third round of review
<carlos> ok
<carlos> salgado: anyway, I guess the problem was that I forgot the email testing (and missed some features on it) more than fixing the other bug. Thanks for your effort anyway
<salgado> np
<dmbasso> I need help from an admin... (I need to remove a product from a project)
<dmbasso> any admin available?
<kiko> dmbasso, please file a new ticket on launchpad
<dmbasso> ok, thanks
<dmbasso> done, the bug was already registered... Bug #38349: Can't delete a product you created
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38349 in launchpad "Can't delete a product you created" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38349
<kiko> dmbasso, a ticket, not a bug, sorry -- launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+tickets
<dmbasso> ahhh, right... sorry, I'm not used to this protocol ;)
<kiko> carlos, so how's it going?
<kiko> heya stub 
<carlos> kiko: hi, still working on reviews
<carlos> kiko: although BjornT already told me that he will not be able to answer my review answer until Monday
<kiko> is that bad news? :-)
<kiko> flacoste:
<kiko> <j-a-meinel> flacoste: If you ever come back, you can do "bzr remerge --merge-type=weave file/foo"
<carlos> kiko: not really ;-) I have a plan B, but you are too anxious
<j-a-meinel> thanks kiko
<flacoste> kiko: thx!
<kiko> carlos, I am not anxious, but I move close to the speed of light
<somerville32> Can someone help me setup bzr for a product?
<carlos> kiko: should I share it with you now? or will you wait until I finish my work today?
<kiko> carlos, I don't think asking me to wait is a good strategy, as we discussed on the phone yesterday -- constant and continuous conversation is key
<carlos> kiko: ok, as I will not get BjornT's answer today, I will give you a present for Monday (or this weekend if you want to do it then), the readonly form. This will reach your goal of having that merged on Monday without causing conflicts
<kiko> I see. are you sandbagging BjornT as well now!
<carlos> I was thinking on doing that even if I get the review, because it's quite easy to do it, but as I said... you are to anxious ;-)
<carlos> kiko: why?
<kiko> heh
<kiko> well, more for him to review, no?
<carlos> kiko: I will branch TranslationReview and send a diff against that branch
<kiko> ah, very good plan
<kiko> good job
<carlos> kiko: I was thinking on you to review it!
<kiko> I may be a perfect candidate
<carlos> so we have a deal
<carlos> kiko: btw, do you know how to modify: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filexpl4Wq.html
<carlos> kiko: so the label 'New suggestion'  is linked with the checkbox?
<kiko> carlos, yes.
<carlos> I was thinking on using onClick event because I don't see the way to do it without breaking the layout
<kiko> use id="..."
<kiko> mmm?
<carlos> oh
<carlos> ok
<kiko> just use id and for
<kiko> however
<kiko> remember: IDs need to be unique for the page
<carlos> the name is already unique in that page
<carlos> so I can use it as id too
<carlos> kiko: ok, thanks
<kiko> yep. good job!
<carlos> I thought the text and the checkbox should be linked using the <label> tag
<kiko> carlos, well, they are linked, but you need to use id and for
<carlos> kiko: it's already done. Thanks for the hint
<kiko> sure thing.
<outime> Hi there
<outime> I was talking yesterday with one user of LaunchPad and he says: 'The alias for youruser@ubuntu.com will be activated in one day or two'
<outime> (when you sign the code of conduct)
<outime> but I don't have anything
<outime> What I need to do?
<kiko> that's untrue.
<salgado> outime, you need to be approved as an ubuntu member first
<kiko> to have an ubuntu.com address, you need to be an Ubuntu member.
<outime> Well, How I can?
<Weebit> member?   
<outime> ah
<outime> I'm translating Ubuntu English to Spanish
<Weebit> cool
<outime> How I need to do for be a 'Ubuntu member'?
<Weebit> im still waiting on the cd  :)
<outime> ok forget it
<carlos> kiko: my mistake
<carlos> outime: Sorry for the bad info from me
<outime> Don't worry carlos 
<somerville32> outtime: see http://ubuntu.com/community
<outime> Thanks somerville32 
<Weebit> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember   is this the membership you are meaning?
<kiko> Weebit, yes.
<Weebit> oh
<Weebit> I didnt know about this
<Weebit> hmm
<SteveA> LarstiQ: ping
<outime> Hey, thanks Weebit, that's right :-)
<Weebit> I help but I have a full plate as it is, so i just set up webpages with instrutions and info on Linux I only have one Ubuntu page for right now and i am not sure if the instructions are good.
<Weebit> your welcome
<Weebit> n/p
<Weebit> finding someone to validate a page is about impossible
<LarstiQ> SteveA: pong
<kiko> BjornT?
<somerville32> Is it bazaar.launchpad.net or baazar.launchpad.net?
<stgraber> bazaar.launchpad.net
<salgado> somerville32, I think https://code.launchpad.net/ is what you're looking for
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74067 in malone "[wishlist]  limit searches by package repository" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74067
<mhb> hi all
<kiko> hey mhb 
<kiko> mhb, I have news for you
<kiko> carlos will have a surprise for us on monday I hear!
<mhb> kiko: about search via google?
<kiko> indeed!
<kiko> I am on the tip of the seat
<mhb> kiko: so I heard ... I wanted to thank you
<kiko> you're most welcome
<kiko> I am looking forward to the translation form changes he has in stock for us
<kiko> when it lands on staging I'll ping you to have you do some of the reviewing, mhb 
<mhb> thanks
<mhb> kiko: I asked carlos a few minutes ago but it seems he hasn't responded, so I thought I'll ask you
<mhb> kiko: how can a non-lp-dev request or implement a feature?
<matsubara> mhb: filing bugs or adding specs
<mhb> matsubara: will you somehow provide us with specs or other information necessary?
<mhb> let's say I want to have a feature ABC in Rosetta, but I know it's not a high priority one, so I might wait years for that
<matsubara> mhb: sorry, I was answering the first part of the question, you can request features by: filing bugs <https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+filebug>or adding a spec <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addspec>
<mhb> matsubara: yes, but if I fear I can wait several cycles for them, and who knows if I'll be doing translations by then
<mhb> (no if in the first part)
<kiko> mhb, well, that can happen, yes, but if there's a significant community interested in the feature, I and other launchpad developers will listen
<mhb> kiko: yes, but even the search took quite a while and that was requested almost by every translator ... I know you guys are busy, what I'm trying to find out is how to help myself
<mhb> kiko: if I want to take part in the development of the feature, for instance
<kiko> well, there is one thing I should clarify: rosetta development of new features is somewhat hampered by the performance work we still need to do on the tool.
<kiko> so as we fix those annoying timeouts, we will be able to improve this significantly
<mhb> kiko: some features I'd like are quite trivial, like sending a mail with a .po file in it
<kiko> the basic features are still being implemented, in a way: support for firefox and ooo translations, better translation review, searching and team levels
<kiko> mhb, well, if you have enough time and really want to help out, you could initiate the process to become a code contributor.
<mhb> kiko: not to me, but to a coordinator of an upstream project
<kiko> mhb, I see. so essentially requesting an export on the behalf of another user?
<mhb> kiko: something like that, yes
<mhb> kiko: it would simplify communication with upstream
<kiko> would upstream not see this as spamming?
<mhb> hard to say
<mhb> they actually want to get the .po files that way so they can review them
<mhb> (at least the Czech ones do)
<kiko> right. what if instead we gave them a persistent directory to go to to fetch the latest pofile exports?
<kiko> something like
<kiko> launchpad.net/products/gaim/+translation-files
<kiko> and that page listed the most recent exports
<kiko> and when they were generated
<kiko> and offered a button to regenerate them on-demand
<mhb> yes, but I still have to inform them (by mail) that I actually request syncing those .po files
<kiko> well
<kiko> we could have those pofiles synced periodically
<kiko> if you set it up that way
<kiko> (i.e. if you said "yes, upstream wants to pick up updated pofiles from here regularly)
<kiko> I just think that that builds a better relationship than "spamming" upstream
<mhb> it gets more complicated because the pofile in Rosetta often differs a lot from the current pofile in upstream which they work on
<mhb> either way sounds good to me
<kiko> right, but they msgmerge, don't they?
<carlos> mhb: sorry, I was away of the computer
<kiko> right
<mhb> carlos: no problem
<kiko> carlos, have a read above -- have we considered a feature like that before?
<carlos> let me read...
<mhb> kiko: the best solution would be to have a kind of "msgmerge a pofile on demand" button in Rosetta, too
<kiko> mhb, can you outline that scenario better?
<carlos> mhb, kiko: yes we talked about such feature
<carlos> as part of the notification system
<carlos> when a .po file is fully translated upstream would get an email with the url where they can get the .po file
<carlos> but to prevent the spam problem, we talked about requiring a confirmation from upstream that they want to get such emails
<mhb> I open the translation of a pofile in Rosetta and click on "merge with upstream", which downloads the most recent translations from upstream and puts them in suggestions if they differ from the Rosetta ones (or something like that)
<carlos> well, to do it as suggestions
<carlos> you will not need to request it
<carlos> we had the plan to fetch daily from GNOME and KDE's CVS/SVN
<carlos> and that will show you those translations as suggestions
<mhb> carlos: killer
<mhb> carlos: did you abandon that plan?
<carlos> no, we delayed it
<mhb> ok, so that is already proposed
<mhb> but I'd like to somehow make the pofile easily accessible to upstream even though it is 100% translated there
<carlos> mhb: we cannot mail them unless they want to be mailed, that's the only problem I see there
<mhb> that's the feature I discussed with kiko a few minutes ago
<kiko> carlos, I suggested keeping the files listed on a page
<carlos> I answered it, if upstream allows us to send the emails, that's fine
<carlos> I see
<kiko> I kinda like that
<kiko> because it means that upstream can use a URL to "buy into" Launchpad
<mhb> mailing a few URLs is not that hard
<kiko> right
<mhb> kiko: one of the interesting things for me would be if "occasional contributors" to LP/Rosetta/Malone/other stuff would exist
<kiko> mhb, as I said, if you'd like to go through the contributor process, you can
<mhb> kiko: but the truth is I don't have that much time for contributing a lot of features
<kiko> I know. maybe you're better off nagging us about the features, because that's also helpful
<kiko> a lot of the time the lack of user feedback makes us make the wrong decisions
<kiko> so just reminding us periodically is good
<carlos> kiko++
<kiko> ok, that's it
* kiko KILLS MOIN DEAD
<kiko> damned @#!@@# wiki
<carlos> :-P
<matsubara> carlos, danilos: what do you think of this bug https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/73519? reasonable request? seems reasonable to me
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73519 in rosetta "Change translations to approved post membership acceptance to translation team" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* radix pings on bug 62495
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62495 in malone "Milestone bug list doesn't sort properly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62495
<danilos> matsubara: it's reasonable, but I feel it's not something you'd want always: eg. translations from someone might be improving over time, so you just want the improved-her, not old-her :)
<carlos> matsubara: hmm, it's reasonable, yes
<carlos> danilos: I guess we should offer the option whether doing that or not and leave that decision to the team coordinator
<kiko> I second danilos's consideration -- it is sometimes useful but it's kinda hard to accept /everything/ a person did en-masse
<kiko> carlos, what if you want all of his translations but one?
<matsubara> danilos: well, the reporter says "only for strings that don't have translations"
<carlos> kiko: you are fucked ;-)
<kiko> heh
<danilos> matsubara: still, it's the same reasoning (i.e. no translation is sometimes better, since you can actually find it easier)
<carlos> that's true
<matsubara> well, confirmed and marked it as wishlist, should I link it with the translation-review spec?
<kiko> not t-r, pelase
<carlos> matsubara: no, translation-review is already complex as it's atm
<carlos> and we are finishing it right now, it needs a new spec
<matsubara> ok, I'll leave that to you guys. :) gotta go now, otherwise I'll lose my bus. 
<carlos> matsubara: see you!
<mhb> kiko: so you think such ocassional help is unwanted?
<mhb> kiko: it's not about me - I guess there are more folks who can help occasionally
<matsubara> see you guys! have a good weekend
<radix> so, if I have specific complaints about the navigation of certain parts of malone, should I file bugs?
<kiko> mhb, not unwanted, but perhaps impractical right now
<radix> (currently about milestones)
<kiko> I'd /love/ to have contributors!
<kiko> radix, sure.
<mhb> kiko: In which way impractical?
<kiko> mhb, well, contributing to launchpad code requires effort and has a learning curve
<kiko> so if you only have a little time
<kiko> it is a lot of work
<mhb> kiko: a) you can reject or delay the patches they commit and b) the full time folks can still concetrate on bugs, stability, efficiency etc
<kiko> mhb, my point is that they may not be able to send patches /at all/
<mhb> I see ... the documentation to LP is closed as well, isn't it?
<outime> Guys, for a mistake, I suscribe my team for receive any support request, and I would deactivate, and I forget the locacation for this. Anyone can help me?
<flacoste-lunch> outime: it's probably Ubuntu
<flacoste-lunch> that's where most support requests are located
<outime> Where I need to go?
<flacoste> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+support-contact
<outime> flacoste, perfect!! Thanks you
<kiko> mhb, yes, but you'd have access to that with a contributor agreement
* outime afk
<mhb> kiko: so I can just read the doc first with no problems?
<mhb> kiko: do you have a page about the agreement?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74080 in malone "milestone navigation: when viewing a milestone, all product navigation is greyed out" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74080
<kiko> mhb, no, you'd need to contact someone at canonical to kick off the process
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you!
<mhb> see you
<mhb> kiko: trying that won't hurt, I guess
<mhb> kiko: can you be more exact on whom I should contact?
<kiko> mhb, let me kick off the process for you; it's martin.bohn@einstein.cz, correct?
<mhb> bohm
<mhb> martin.bohm
<kiko> right, bohm. I am sleeping on the keys now
<kiko> apologies
<mhb> no problem
<mhb> kiko: thanks
<kiko> most welcome
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74085 in malone "Simultaneous edits to bugs lose information" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74085
<kiko> that's a dupe!
#launchpad 2006-12-02
<Dominus_Suus> I think that I accidentally disabled my wiki access in Launchpad, could someone help me get it back?
<Dominus_Suus> (yes, I know I'm an idiot)
<somerville32> When I try to set the milestone (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/xubuntu-welcome-center/+spec/xubuntu-welcome-center/+milestone) I get an integrity error.
<ezenu3> Is it possible to do a more complex search with launchpad for bugs.. well, just a simple AND. e.g., "users-admin AND help"
<somerville32> Any lp admins around?
<_thumper_> lifeless, sabdfl, although you have probably seen it, just in case you haven't: http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/archives/2006/11/google-mondrian.html
<_thumper_> btw, hello
<somerville32> Hi :)
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, what's up?
<somerville32> Can you rename a product's unix name for me and it's bazaar branches to match?
<somerville32> I'd like xubuntu-welcome-center to be renamed to xubuntu-welcome-centre
<somerville32> Please
<somerville32> :)
<somerville32> And there is code attached to that product, so if the branch prefix (?) could be renamed too, that would be great :] 
<kiko-zzz> mmmmm
<kiko-zzz> can you not change the product name yourself?
<somerville32> Not the unix name, I don't think
<kiko-zzz> let's see
<kiko-zzz> hi SteveA 
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, you're right
<kiko-zzz> I will rename it
<kiko-zzz> I think the branch names are changed as well
<kiko-zzz> but you'll need to check for that with ddaa
<kiko-zzz> done.
<somerville32> Also, I get an error when I try to set the milestone for my specification
<somerville32> Something about an integrity error
<kiko-zzz> I saw that in the oops report today
<somerville32> Also, I can't "administer" my spec, I get a permission denied.
<kiko-zzz> why is that link even available to you?
* kiko-zzz sighs
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, okay, the reason is that you're choosing a milestone that isn't for your produce
<kiko-zzz> product sorry
<kiko-zzz> the funny thing is
<kiko-zzz> why do we even list the others?
<kiko-zzz> matsubara will have fun with the report
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, you need to create a milestone for your product first.
<kiko-zzz> https://launchpad.net/products/xubuntu-welcome-centre/trunk/+addmilestone
<kiko-zzz> then pick that milestone out of the list 
<kiko-zzz> there are about three bugs in this entire interaction
<kiko-zzz> but it works
<somerville32_> doh
<kiko-zzz> heh
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, how much did you get?
<somerville32> QUOTE:
<somerville32> <kiko-zzz> I saw that in the oops report today
<somerville32> <somerville32> Also, I can't "administer" my spec, I get a permission denied.
<kiko-zzz> that was it?
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> why is that link even available to you?
<kiko-zzz> * kiko-zzz sighs
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> somerville32, okay, the reason is that you're choosing a milestone that isn't for your produce
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> product sorry
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> the funny thing is
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> why do we even list the others?
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> matsubara will have fun with the report
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> somerville32, you need to create a milestone for your product first.
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> https://launchpad.net/products/xubuntu-welcome-centre/trunk/+addmilestone
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> then pick that milestone out of the list 
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> there are about three bugs in this entire interaction
<kiko-zzz> <kiko-zzz> but it works
* kiko-zzz floods
<lifeless> _thumper_: interesting
<somerville32> But I want it to be a ubuntu milestone, haha
<somerville32> Do
<somerville32> *Doh
<_thumper_> lifeless: yeah, beaten again
<lifeless> somerville32: you can renamed it yourself, if its your product
<kiko-zzz> lifeless, hmm, apparently renaming is in +admin
<lifeless> somerville32: if its not, then you can't, and an admin wont without discussion with the owner
<lifeless> kiko-zzz: is it? crack
<kiko-zzz> you said it mon
<somerville32> I'm the owner :] 
<kiko-zzz> well, the reason it's not allowed to +edit
<kiko-zzz> is that it potentially linkrots
<kiko-zzz> I'm not sure is that's valid or not but it's a reason
<lifeless> _thumper_: beaten? I dont think so. Thats internal, and built on fundamentally different assumptions
<kiko-zzz> hey _thumper_ 
<_thumper_> lifeless: yeah, quite different if you think about it
<kiko-zzz> your timezone utterly sucks :-P
<_thumper_> kiko-zzz: hello
<lifeless> _thumper_: however, theres a bunch of ideas there that we had not got to - and thats something we should build towards asap :)
<somerville32> It would nice if products could be attached to a team or person
<_thumper_> tell me about it
* kiko-zzz abolishes timezones
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, they are attached to you through ownership
<_thumper_> 12 UTC thursday won't be too nice for me
<lifeless> kiko-zzz: _thumper_ is in the perfect timezone. Greet the SUN
<somerville32> kiko-zzz: But it isn't listed on my lp page
<kiko-zzz> lifeless, sorry, but no.
<lifeless> kiko-zzz: first county in the world to get new years :)
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, that's a bug. one day I might even fix it!
<somerville32> :] 
<kiko-zzz> that report is so old I think it has only 3 digits
<kiko-zzz> if I fix it I get a week in paris being tended to by naked nurses
<somerville32> re: milestone
<kiko-zzz> so I'm saving up
<kiko-zzz> yes somerville32 
<_thumper_> lifeless: do you sit in on the lp meetings?
<kiko-zzz> did you see my advice? you can't use an ubuntu milestone (sorry that the UI confuses you)
<kiko-zzz> _thumper_, I miss you at the lp meetings btw
<somerville32> It would be logical for us to set the milestone for the ubuntu milestone because thats when we plan it to be included
<_thumper_> kiko-zzz: back this week
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, I know
<_thumper_> start monday
<lifeless> _thumper_: sometimes. I check the agenda, and also it depends on how much sleep I'm lacking at the time.
<kiko-zzz> _thumper_, that's great to hear. 
<_thumper_> 1am is gunna suck though
<lifeless> _thumper_: I make the bzr-launchpad meetings fairly religiously though.
<kiko-zzz> he misses them because he has managed to wean himself out of any official team with meetings
<lifeless> kiko-zzz: review team ? :)
<_thumper_> I like that plan
<lifeless> kiko-zzz: its a tradeoff - less weekly meetings, more sprints. go figure.
<kiko-zzz> _thumper_, if you complain enough we might be able to make it a rotating meeting schedule, but DON'T TELL ANYBODY I SAID THAT
<_thumper_> I'm going to suggest a rolling meeting time
* kiko-zzz whistles
<kiko-zzz> la la la
<_thumper_> kiko-zzz, it has been said before
<kiko-zzz> LA LA LA
<_thumper_> I really need to start organising my time in April
* kiko-zzz tries to make his phone stop flashing
<somerville32> kiko: A link to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/xubuntu-welcome-centre/+spec/xubuntu-welcome-center/+admin on that specification page has shown up for me
<_thumper_> I'm heading back to UK for ACCU conference
<somerville32> However, I get permission denied.
<_thumper_> but it'd suck to only be back for one week
<somerville32> Is that suppose to be like that?
<_thumper_> so gunna suggest some time with SteveA and ddaa
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, that's a bug. no. if you report it I will fix it
<somerville32> Is the bug that the link is visible or that I can't access it?
<kiko-zzz> the former
<kiko-zzz> it's a pretty useless page anyway
<_thumper_> off for now, but fully in the loop from monday :)
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, are you all set? I need to find some breakfast
<somerville32> Yu[/
<somerville32> ERr.
<somerville32> Yup.
<kiko-zzz> c00/
* kiko-zzz goes for fud
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74136 in launchpad "+admin link visible to non-admin" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74136
<kiko-zzz> hey jamesh 
<dand> hello can anyone here confirm if it's safe to translate openoffice in rosetta yet? (in terms of translation not being lost)
<outime> dand, I'm using Rosetta for translate many packages of Ubuntu and I don't lost anything
<mdke> you can translate Ubuntu Dapper/Edgy without worrying, I think
<mdke> not sure about openoffice as a product
<mdke> it is marked as "Doesnt use Rosett"
<bubulle> hello around....are there any Rosetta admins around?
<mdke> danilo[out] :
<mdke> ^^
<mdke> ;)
<danilo[out] > bubulle: hey, how can I help? :)
* bubulle would like to talk about Debian installer l10n on Rosetta
<danilo[out] > dand: you can translate ooo using rosetta, and we'll try to make sure nothing is lost (there might be some losses because of incompatibilities when we switch to native ooo support stuff)
<bubulle> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/debian-installer/+pots/debian-installer has things that look like old D-I stuff + some Ubuntu specific strings
<bubulle> however, we (D-I team) have some translators who use Rosetta as base tool for their work and we can't make them converge to something really complete as they're missing strings to work on
<danilo[out] > bubulle: those are things which are part of ubuntu edgy packages
<dand> danilo[out] : any chance for manually uploading some pos for ooo? :) 
<bubulle> danilo[out] : yeah, this is what I figured out, more or less...
<danilo[out] > bubulle: we'd be delighted to offer you official rosetta support, if you're so inclined :)
<bubulle> danilos: hmmm, I wouldn't go that far...:-)...but, for the benefit of our both i18n teams, I think that updating PO's in Rosetta from the current PO in D-I would be good
<danilos> dand: not at the moment: we've managed to block the upload forms even for rosetta admins, and we need to work around that as soon as possible
<dand> dand: k, well luck with that
<danilos> bubulle: it's not that simple; those PO files would end up in the next language pack update for Ubuntu Edgy, which means that it will break for all Ubuntu users
<bubulle> danilos: well, maybe not if we *merge* the PO's without losing strings
<danilos> bubulle: another option is to have official support for d-i as a product, and let *you* handle conflicts (i.e. duplicated work and updates)
<bubulle> hmmm, I'm not sure about what does the above mean
<danilos> bubulle: right, that would be possible if we create union of both your POTs and Ubuntu Edgy POTs
<bubulle> yep, that would be the point
<danilos> bubulle: well, you can have d-i use Rosetta for translation officially, yet, someone might translate it in Rosetta while you've got other upstream team working on it
<danilos> bubulle: I think we might be able to arrange this so only some teams/languages are allowed to use Rosetta for d-i translation, but I'll need to check with carlos and kiko-zzz
<bubulle> yeah, could be something like that. As you may figure out, there's a very litle chance that we use Rosetta *only* but I don't want some of the translation teams to be left aside if they're more comfortable with Rosetta
<bubulle> actually, this is pretty important for the Kurdish team because if they want D-I translated (which also means next Ubuntu release, if I'm correct), they have to complete the D-I strings....
<bubulle> they currently work only in Rosetta with me grabbing the file from time to time (/me wishes this could be automated)
<danilos> right: as I said, I am willing to look into this, if you think having simple per-language team restrictions (and we/you approve the teams) will work well enough for d-i
<bubulle> yeah, I think that it should work
<bubulle> I don't know how many strings are specific to either Debian or Ubuntu but after our common efforts to reduce branding, I'd say there a not that many
<danilos> can you please file a ticket about it https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+addticket
<dand> danilos: was wondering, when switching to native ooo support will the pot files grouping (ooo-base.pot, ooo-writer.pot etc.) be changed?
<danilos> (ticket ensures it's not lost, and all rosetta admins can see it and act upon it: we can also discuss it into more detail there :)
<danilos> dand: most likely it will
<bubulle> danilos: I can, but I'm a little unsure about what to say there..:)...Something like "please merge Debian and Ubuntu POs and POTs" in d-i in Rosetta?
<danilos> dand: but we'll try to make it as seamless as possible
<danilos> bubulle: I was more thinking about allowing *some* teams to translate upstream d-i using rosetta
<bubulle> ah, ok
<bubulle> would you mean d-i being another product aside with the current "debian-installer"?
<danilos> i.e. we won't be merging POTs and putting that into current edgy stuff (that would break with each ubuntu package update)
<danilos> bubulle: no, I mean something like https://launchpad.net/products/debian-installer
<danilos> bubulle: we enable the translation there, but limit it to only languages we agree on, and teams we create
<bubulle> ah, ok....
<danilos> bubulle: so no duplicate work happens, and you've got complete control over the POTs and everything
<bubulle> how does the update of POT and POs work in such case?
<danilos> the same, you can simply upload a POT whenever you wish (there're some VCS integration options as well, but I don't really know much about them yet), and you can fetch a tarball or single PO files the same way you do know
<danilos> s/know/now/ ;)
* bubulle was more thinking about automating the whole stuff....D-I POs and POT are likely to be updated daily
<bubulle> so that would need VCS integration for sure
<danilos> right, but I don't think we're there yet
<danilos> but I don't think you need to update POs every single day
<danilos> just doing so before a release is usually good enough
<danilos> i.e. "update POs" = you downloading translations from Launchpad and putting them into d-i
<danilos> "update POTs" = you uploading POTs from d-i into Launchpad
<danilos> all the other stuff is done automatically by Launchpad (i.e. POs updated with every new POT etc.)
<bubulle> hmmmm, given the development model we use, very frequent updates are a must-have, and if possible both ways. One has to remember that "D-I" is made of something like 60 packages, not all of them being released at the same time
<bubulle> and much of the testing is made on daily built images, thus making important to have POs being as recent as possible.
<bubulle> we could even setup builds from the SVN in the future, which would help new teams to test D-I in their language as early as possible
<danilos> POs will be as recent as POTs are
<danilos> at least those in Rosetta
<danilos> we can probably work something out to automate it all
<danilos> (i.e. we might be able to provide automatic daily regeneration of PO tarballs, and email you the link)
<danilos> bubulle: it would still be up to you to update POTs frequently, though
<danilo-afk> bubulle: don't forget the ticket or this issue might be all forgotten
<RichiH> the faq is not completely specific about this: translations done via rosetta fall under the same licence as they belong to or the same as rosetta?
* outime I'm back in about 45 minutes
<danilo-afk> RichiH: we'll be cleaning that up; at the moment, they're under the license of what is being translated, yet reusable in any other project using rosetta
<RichiH> danilo-afk: i doubt anyone would be able to use the texts i have in mind ;)
<RichiH> apart from us, that is
<RichiH> long story short, the freenode website and perhaps even the *serv help should be translated at some point. initially, i thought of doing it on my on, but i found out about you guys and the gnu translation efforts
<RichiH> i mean, i can do german and will help with that. but the other languages..
<RichiH> is this here compatible with rosetta?
<RichiH> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/
<RichiH> note that it's nd
<dominussuus> Could somebody help me fix a problem with my Launchpad account, please?
<flacoste> dominussuus: what's the problem?
<dominussuus> flacoste: I'm an idiot and I disabled my launchpad wiki space
<flacoste> what do you mean?
<flacoste> what's your launchpad account?
<dominussuus> flacoste: my ubuntu wiki access is controlled by my launchpad account, right?
<flacoste> i think so
<dominussuus> right, and I think I ticked and saved the 'disable wiki forever' box on my wiki preferences
<flacoste> on wiki.ubuntu.com?
<dominussuus> yes - so now when I try to log into the ubuntu wiki system using my launchpad account it says it doesn't recognise my password
<dominussuus> which I know is correct because I can log into launchpad
<flacoste> ok, so this is a problem that can be solved by an ubuntu wiki admin
<dominussuus> I should hope so
<flacoste> maybe try to find one in #ubuntu
<flacoste> otherwise file a support request on launchpad, and one of the Launchapd admin will take care of finding the right person to fix that on Monday
<flacoste> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addticket
<dominussuus> thanks :)
<dominussuus> some other people have done similar things - I tacked on my name to one of those requests.  Do you think that they'll find it?
<flacoste> dominussuus: hmm, better to file a separate request
#launchpad 2006-12-03
<Seilo> hi guys
<Seilo> i need help 
<Seilo> with bazaar
<Seilo> anya1 there?
<somerville32> Hey
<somerville32> :)
<somerville32> Whats up?
<Seilo> well
<Seilo> i want to push somethign with bzr
<Seilo> on launchpad
<Seilo> but cant
<somerville32> What is stopping you?
<Seilo> seif@Snoopy:~/Projects$ bzr push sftp://seif@bazaar.launchpad.net/~seif/gnome-vpnc
<Seilo> Enter passphrase for key '/home/seif/.ssh/id_dsa': 
<Seilo> bzr: ERROR: File exists: u'/~seif/gnome-vpnc/.bzr': mkdir failed: unable to mkdir
<somerville32> Did you do: svn init
<somerville32> svn add
<somerville32> ?
<Seilo> u mean
<Seilo> bzr init
<Seilo> yep
<somerville32> Is errr... yeah
<somerville32> ok
<somerville32> --create-prefix
<Seilo> huh
<Seilo> u mean
<Seilo> bzr push --create-prefix sftp://seif@bazaar.launchpad.net/~seif/gnome-vpnc
<Seilo> ????
<yankees26> somerville32: nice :P (the svn usage :P)
<yankees26> Seilo: is this your first push?
<yankees26> on that branch i mean
<Seilo> yeah
<Seilo> :)
<yankees26> ya
<yankees26> try it with --create-prefix
<Seilo> i uploaded a ssh key
<Seilo> i did
<Seilo> seif@Snoopy:~/Projects$ bzr push --create-prefix sftp://seif@bazaar.launchpad.net/~seif/gnome-vpnc
<Seilo> Enter passphrase for key '/home/seif/.ssh/id_dsa': 
<Seilo> bzr: ERROR: File exists: u'/~seif/gnome-vpnc/.bzr': mkdir failed: unable to mkdir
<yankees26> i remember reading somewhere on lp it says if its your first push --create-prefix should be used
<yankees26> hm...
<yankees26> i have no idea
<somerville32> See #bzr
<yankees26> is it possible to delete a product that you've registerd?
<Seilo> hi guys
<Seilo> i am trying ot sign the ubuntu code of conduct
<Seilo> by doing
<Seilo> gpg --clearsign UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt
<Seilo> it asks me for password etc 
<Seilo> i put it in
<Seilo> gpg: can't open `UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt': No such file or directory
<Seilo> gpg: UbuntuCodeOfConduct-1.0.1.txt: clearsign failed: file open error
<Seilo> help
<somerville32> Does the file exist?
<Seilo> yeah
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<somerville32> Hi mpt :)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74226 in launchpad "Oops links should be LP-developer-only, and/or not in ~jamesh/" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74226
<RichiH> kiko_race, mdz, lifeless, SteveA: we are thinking of getting the freenode site translated. it is, of course, not software and the licence is http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/ -- as it is nd, this means it is not open, either. would it be possible to make an exemption for freenode? the reason it's nd is that we do not want to be misquoted :/
<mdke> RichiH: people tend not to be around on a sunday, but you can email the mailing list and that will ensure they'll see it.
<mdke> you might want to add sabdfl to the list of people you're pinging, too :)
<RichiH> mdke: ah, didn't know he was in here :)
<RichiH> mdke: i try to avoid mailing lists to lessen my spam, though (works, too!)
<RichiH> mdke: i will simply wait here and ask on monday if needed
<mdke> RichiH: ok!
<RichiH> mdke: and thanks :)
<mdke> yw
<gummibaerchen> Hello,
<gummibaerchen> how can I join a specific Product?
<somerville32> What product?
<gummibaerchen> gnome-vpnc
<gummibaerchen> someone from the forum asked for help, but i have never worked with launchpad before
<gummibaerchen> or muste he invite me?
<somerville32> He would need to invite you to the ground the drives or maintains the product
<somerville32> *group
<gummibaerchen> ok :)
<gummibaerchen> how can a poll start without any options.. stupid software... ;) no way to delete polls before they end?
<gummibaerchen> --- Q: I found a user, who has a 0-Karma and whos Mail address isn't valid, could you please delete him, or change his "name" as I want to use it?
<somerville32> Is it you?
<gummibaerchen> no :)
<gummibaerchen> i want his name, because he wasn't active, tried to mail him but undelivered mail...
<gummibaerchen> but that reminds me, i think i have an old account with my old e-mail address
<gummibaerchen> can you check wether timm@rabbit.com.au exists in your database?
<somerville32> Not my database :] 
<gummibaerchen> :)
<gummibaerchen> <somerville32> Now I'm having trouble pushing to lp.net
<gummibaerchen> me to
<RichiH> try to recover the password with that email? (if it is emailbased)
<gummibaerchen> but there is no package paramiko
<gummibaerchen> mail is not mine anymore
<gummibaerchen> i'm serious with that issue, nothin you can do?
<somerville32> Ask an lp admin
<gummibaerchen> where do i find them?
<somerville32> I'd ask on Monday
<somerville32> Most developers aren't here on the weekend
<gummibaerchen> ok :)
* outime busy
* Gwaihir is away: I'll be right back!
* Gwaihir is back (gone 00:10:52)
<somerville32> wb
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71482 in language-pack-kde-fr-base "Missing translations in language-pack-kde-fr-base package" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71482
<yankees26> anyone know if its possible to delete a product that I've registered?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74288 in launchpad "Text in top navigation bar incorrectly rendered in Konqueror" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74288
<Ubugtu> New bug: #74296 in rosetta "Display only "diff" translation when we have both product and distro package" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74296
<_thumper_> ping mpt
<lifeless> morning _thumper_ 
<_thumper_> lifeless, morning
<_thumper_> I have interred myself at the local library to avoid the children
<lifeless> :)
<_thumper_> mobile broadband seems to be working
<LarstiQ> moin lifeless, _thumper_ 
<LarstiQ> _thumper_: heh :)
<_thumper_> morning LarstiQ
<lifeless> sweet
<_thumper_> pulling updates now
<_thumper_> about a month worth to get :)
<kiko_race> gummibaerchen, the poll feature has a few open bugs open, but because it's not used very much they haven't been a priority
<LarstiQ> kiko_race: you have irc access from a race bike?
<gummibaerchen> wil i delete the poll when its over?
<kiko_race> kiko
<gummibaerchen> *can I
<kiko_race> LarstiQ, I just got back
<kiko_race> I am completely exhausted
<_thumper_> kiko_race how did you do?
<kiko_race> _thumper_, I did third overall and second in age group
<kiko_race> it was a 12 hour race, midnight to noon
<lifeless> kiko_race: congrats!
<_thumper_> kiko_race: damn that's long
<kiko_race> it was good but I had a hard time eating after about 7h
<kiko_race> thanks lifeless 
<LarstiQ> kiko_race: wow. What kind of race was that?
<kiko_race> I coudn't eat anything without getting kinda nauseous
<kiko_race> well, anything but DORITOS
<kiko_race> the secret of life
<kiko_race> LarstiQ, a mountain bike race
<kiko_race> I lost the lead about 6h in
<kiko_race> but I got some nice prizes
<kiko_race> and I only crashed once, a very minor crash
<kiko_race> so I was pleased
<_thumper_> kiko_race, how did it work in the dark?
<kiko_race> _thumper_, we use lights, both bike and helmet mounted. the sections of singletrack are tricky but manageable; I find the fire roads a bit more dangerous because it's fast and you don't always figure out the camber of the curves until it's too late
<kiko_race> there was one pretty scary drop in the circuit that at night was terrifying
<_thumper_> kiko_race that sounds like the sort of crazy thing my brother in law would do
<kiko_race> you should tell him we have good races down here 
<SteveA_> morning
<_thumper_> morning SteveA
<SteveA> hi tim
<kiko> zzz
<SteveA> good night kiko
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<mpt> Hello _thumper_!
<_thumper_> hiya mpt
<_thumper_> mpt: I wanted to chat about a better icon for branches
<mpt> oh, speaking of which
<mpt> kiko-zzz, bugzilla.gnome.org has a nifty icon for "has patch": a pair of crossed sticking plasters (aka band-aids)
<mpt> _thumper_, yes, maybe "branch" should go on the list of Icons That Need Help
<kiko-zzz> mpt, we can't use that but maybe the idea?
<_thumper_> :)
<mpt> But I don't know what the procedure is for adding icons to that list
<_thumper_> mpt: sticking plasters though might not convey the idea that it is "fixed" rather than "patched over"
<mpt> I'll talk with SteveA about it
* mpt needs a new hard disk
<mpt> _thumper_, did you just want to say "we really need a branch icon", or do you have a suggestion about what it should look like?
<ajmitch> morning mpt 
<_thumper_> mpt: I was thinking of the icon that is used on www.bazaar-vcs.org
<_thumper_> when I use firefox I get an icon on the tab
<_thumper_> it looks ok
<mpt> kiko-zzz, it looks like Mark didn't quite understand your issue with product title vs. display name
<_thumper_> better than a list icon anyway
<mpt> yes
<kiko-zzz> mpt, that's a bit of an understatement!
<kiko-zzz> he finally understood and advised me in private communication
<mpt> ok
<mpt> And what was the advice?
<mpt> (because I'll be reviewing headings of every template shortly)
<kiko-zzz> that the user should include the displayname when typing in the product title.
<SteveA> I think we should ask the user for just the title
<SteveA> and then make the display name customizable separately -- set it to the product title to start with
<SteveA> or ideally, have a NULL or something to say "look at the title"
<mpt> So is "Firefox is Mozilla's award-winning next generation Web browser." an appropriate title, then? :-)
<mpt> It includes the display name
<SteveA> I think there's a circularity there
<SteveA> in that appropriate style names will depend where we choose to use them
<mpt> yeah
#launchpad 2007-11-26
<ubotu> New bug: #165087 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot branch from bzr+http URLs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165087
<Andre_Gondim> the code area in launchpad, is like a sourceforge?
<kiko> Andre_Gondim, yes, though it is for bzr-hosted code, not svn/cvs.
<kiko> though you can import svn and cvs branches continuously into bzr
<Andre_Gondim> kiko, thanks :D
<kiko> sure thing
<kiko> wow, how hungreeee
<Fujitsu> kiko: Eeeat!
<Fujitsu> kiko: There seems to be a section header (for launchpad-bazaar) missing on the 1.1.11 release announcement on news.l.n.
<kiko> let me see that.
<kiko> man, you guys have no idea how much spam n.l.n gets
<kiko> it's like RIDICULOUS
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<LaserJock> kiko: you guys have akismet or something on it?
 * Fujitsu doesn't see any captchas.
<kiko> what's that?
<kiko> Fujitsu, thanks for that -- you have good eyes.
<kiko> there was a missing > 
<kiko> good ole wp 
<Fujitsu> kiko: Aha.
 * Fujitsu stabs WP dead for having SO MANY security flaws.
<Fujitsu> 42 CVEs in 18 months is not cool.
<kiko> WP is.. disappointingly good
<Fujitsu> Apart from being written in PHP and having more security flaws than any other piece of packaged software, by a long way, it is fairly good.
<kiko> I wish I could hate it enough to not use it, but I can't, which is annoying.
<kiko> but the text editor... 
<kiko> aiee
<Fujitsu> ?
<kiko> well, "text"
<kiko> the HTML editing is really weird
<kiko> it insists on redoing your HTML when you save rwice
<Fujitsu> Most browser-based WYSIWYG editors are pretty wieird.
<kiko> and using blockquotes and other elements just go haywire 
<Fujitsu> Oh, so it interprets it, mangles it, and writes its own version out?
<kiko> I spent hours trying to get of-bugs-and-statuses formatted properly and gave up.
<kiko> so the first time you save it just saves as is.
<kiko> but if you go and edit it and then save again, it interprets and rewrites it.
<kiko> very weird.
<Fujitsu> Night.
<kiko-zzz> anyway, let me get something to eat and then sleep
<kiko-zzz> you guys take care, and thanks.
<Fujitsu> No problem, and sleep/eat well.
<bd_> launchpad.com seems still down
<LaserJock> launchpad.net
<jamesh> we have no control over launchpad.com
<mpt> or lunchpad.net
<thumper> :)
 * thumper wants lunchpad.net
<mpt> There was one other I came across the other day
<jamesh> lunchpadding.net?
<mpt> No, that's too far away
<mpt> It was a typo squatter
<ubotu> New bug: #165110 in malone "When a bug is marked "Duplicate", all bug tasks should be preserved" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165110
<carlos> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi carlos.
 * Hobbsee throws a herring in carlos' general direction in greeting
<carlos> :-)
 * Fujitsu throws some timeouts too.
<carlos> Fujitsu: please, try it again, stub did some changes that should kill some remaining timeouts
<Burgundavia> anybody from the rosetta team around
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/165128
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165128 in rosetta "Put all translations in bzr (or possibly other vcs)" [Undecided,New] 
<Fujitsu> carlos: ^^
<carlos> Fujitsu: thanks
<carlos> Burgundavia: hi
<Burgundavia> hey
<carlos> Burgundavia: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-translates-branch
<carlos> that's something we were planning a while ago
<carlos> the spec says to fetch from bzr branches and to commit in a translations branch so people could merge from it
<Burgundavia> figured it had been discussed
<Burgundavia> is there work on that?
<poolie_> edge seems pretty slow atm....
<ubotu> New bug: #165128 in rosetta "Put all translations in bzr (or possibly other vcs)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165128
<carlos> Burgundavia: not yet
<Burgundavia> ok. From an "upstreams hate Rosetta" perspective, getting this would probably be a good thing
<somerville33> Hey
<somerville33> Can an lp admin take care of this account?: https://edge.launchpad.net/~gogetfucked/
<mwhudson> he can deal with it himself now
<ubotu> New bug: #165131 in launchpad "Getting details on a superseded package version returns a 404 error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165131
<mpt> mwhudson, it's existed for a while, quite possibly he/she has forgotten about it
<mpt> but that doesn't mean it should still exist
<mpt> Another use case for the "Report as inappropriate" button
<somerville33> mwhudson: It doesn't look very professional when I'm looking at a specification for Ubuntu and I see "None of your fucking business" as one of the subscribers.
<mwhudson> somerville32: no, indeed
<mwhudson> i don't think any admins are here right now though
<mwhudson> SteveA_: if you're here could you deactivate the 'gogetfucked' account on launchpad?
<gmb_> mwhudson: It's nice to see inventive account names, isn't it :)
<mwhudson> gmb: not really
 * gmb reads the profile
<gmb> Ah.
<ubotu> New bug: #165142 in launchpad "Duplicate message in "Translation setup needed"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165142
<SteveA_> mwhudson: sure
<ubotu> New bug: #165146 in launchpad "lp admins cannot deactivate accounts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165146
<StevenHarperUK> Where in launchpad would I find the Binary NEW queue from my package? : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/
<StevenHarperUK> *s/from/for
<StevenHarperUK> Googled it : fount it : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=easycrypt
<Hobbsee> StevenHarperUK: ...in the new queue.  as discussed a few weeks ago
<Hobbsee> oh, you're asking where, not why
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh, I was trying to find  the URL
<StevenHarperUK> Im past the source new queue
<StevenHarperUK> now I am in the binary one
<StevenHarperUK> Which I wasn't aware of
<ubotu> New bug: #165148 in launchpad ""decativate my account" link is hard to find" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165148
<StevenHarperUK> Hobbsee: I see that the translation files have been auto found, will they added as launchpad translateable files automatically? 
<Hobbsee> carlos: should know the answer to that
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: if the package is in main, yes
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: if it's not in main, translations shouldn't be stripped out
<StevenHarperUK> Carlos: 
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: will they get added , or should I leave them uploaded on my Launchpad project page?
<Hobbsee> carlos: i'ts universe
<carlos> then translations should remain in binary packages
<carlos> and nothing needs to be done in Launchpad
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I want to take advantage of the launchpad tool for getting translators to do translations using Launchpad, how do I go about this : I have put the po files into a translation QUeue on my Project page : https://edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: is that package Ubuntu specific?
<Fujitsu> carlos: Note that he is upstream too.
<carlos> Fujitsu: I guessed that, yes :-P
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: seems to be something not specific for Ubuntu
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: I recommend you to upload translations directly in your project directly
<carlos> instead of using Ubuntu for your upstream translations
<carlos> that way you will get translations even from non Ubuntu translators
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: thanks for the info - do we know how long these translation imports take?
<StevenHarperUK> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/+imports : that one was on the 28th of the Nov
<StevenHarperUK> *28th Oct
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: if you ping me once you do the upload, quite fast
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: ping
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: for next upload, please, name the template .pot instead of .po
<carlos> .po is usually for translations while .pot is for template
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: the file is approved now, expect an email in next 5-15 minutes
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: ta
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I have an italian translation alreasy, how do I get that one in?
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: also, you need to set https://edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/ as using Launchpad Translations
<carlos> or it will not let anyone to see your translations
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: you can upload it directly at https://translations.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+pots/easycrypt/+upload
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I thought I had set that
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: https://launchpad.net/easycrypt/ says you didn't
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: that last page is an error page, will it work after upload?
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: that will go away once you set your product as using translations
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: thanks for all the help
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: if I upload an italian translation, how does it know its for that locale, do I have to tar n zip up the structure?
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I have put the tarr'ed versions up can you review them please https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+imports
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: I just approved it
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: ta 
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: btw, the template shouldn't have any translation, I accepted the 'en' translations as the template but you should generate a direct .pot file from the source code, which tool are you using to generate those files?
<StevenHarperUK> I had hand cranked the po files
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: time to change that then
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: ;-)
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I have emails saying they have all failed, I have checked  them with msgfmt : I get no errors
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: let me check...
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: our parser doesn't understand the domain 'foo' line
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: ill fix that now
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: is it needed for your application or just added by you ?
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: that's a limitation in our parser but if you don't need it , better to remove it to get it imported...
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: what should I upload first  a POT , or a tar of Po's 
<carlos> you can upload a tarball with the .pot file and all .po files
<khnz> Hi. Is it possible to build ready-to-use module packages for the current ubuntu kernel (from already created *-source deb) in ppa?
<kiko> sure, I think
<khnz> do you have any hint, link or something how to do it? currently launchpad only builds the source package.
<Hobbsee> erm, what?
<Hobbsee> khnz: you can build sources, such as linux-restricted-modules on ppa, if you wish
<carlos> khnz: I guess you need to modify the package because the original package in Ubuntu is designed to work in that way
<Hobbsee> khnz: as for how you intend to build the modules without a source....i can't imagine what you're attempting
<carlos> Hobbsee: there are some special packages with '-source' in its name that are not built against latest kernel in Ubuntu for each flavour
<carlos> and I guess he wants to get the binary from that package
<Hobbsee> carlos: this is true.  ah, in which case you have to build the source, to get the binary.
<Hobbsee> hang on, from a -source deb?  no.  ppa does source --> binary.  not binary --> module / other strange form
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: module-assistant can be used to build binaries from the -source, which is build from the source package. I'm sure you can convince the source package to build the modules directly.
<khnz> right. my package build the -source package, and this works fine with module-assistant.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: "right"
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Erm?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i see your point, but i dont see how it lines up with his :)
<ubotu> New bug: #165160 in rosetta "Languages without plural form information break +translate form submission" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165160
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I doubt that khnz wishes to attempt to build it from the -source binary package, but wishes to build real binaries in addition to the -source.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah right.
<khnz> Fujitsu: exactly, thanks (my english is too bad)
<carlos> khnz: for that, you need to create a new package, you cannot use Ubuntu's package directly
<carlos> because they are not designed in that way
<Fujitsu> carlos: It depends on the package. Some probably have an easy option that you can set to build binaries too.
<carlos> Fujitsu: maybe, but still needs to change the source package
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<khnz> carlos: okay, thanks, will trying.
<ubotu> New bug: #165167 in rosetta "IndexError in +translate page" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165167
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I have redone all the translations and used tools to make the POT and po files, can you please check them and upload : ta
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+imports
<frenchy> I'm new to the LP mail list but if you want I can respond to anbraveman1987@gmail.com.  I think he seems lost.
<frenchy> Do you mind if I do?
<carlos> frenchy: you are free to answer any email
<carlos> you don't need to ask for permission
<carlos> any contribution is welcome, even email answering :-)
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: ok, let me check...
<lamont> did 1.1.11 give buildd admins a +build somewhere that covers all PPAs?
<frenchy> Ta
<kiko> lamont, no.
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: approved, although the 'en' one is not needed, usually that's the source code. If you need per country English, use en_US, en_UK, etc...
<lamont> kiko: ok.  sigh.  any guesses when?
<kiko> lamont, when we get around to doing them -- probably jan/feb.
<lamont> what I'd like is a way to go see everything that the queue-builder just built, or rather, what the build-launching part of launchpad is going to use to pick 'next up at bat' :)
<lamont> understood
 * lamont heads for the office
<Fujitsu> lamont: That's bug #155758, and was just deferred by two releases (to 1.2.1)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155758 in soyuz "Global PPA +builds would be useful" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155758 - Assigned to Julian Edwards (julian-edwards)
 * Hobbsee subscribes
<Fujitsu> Has 1.1.12 ceased to exist, or something?
<Fujitsu> I've just had a lot of bugs deferred from 1.1.1[12] to 1.2.[12]
<mwhudson> Fujitsu: it's a short cycle what with christmas an everything
<mwhudson> Fujitsu: also, we're trying to be much more honest about what is actually going to happen in a given release
<ubotu> New bug: #165179 in rosetta "Template import notification email reports successful even with a failure" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165179
 * carlos -> lunch
 * lamont finds himself curious enough to ask...
<lamont> what exactly is the default sort key on launchpad.net/+builds?
<MiserySalin> hi there....
<MiserySalin> Could someone delete some packages from my PPA? I added it to the answer-tracker but there was no response. :-( ( https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/18506 )
<jdong> Hi can I request https://edge.launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/+build/454839 to be interrupted and the relevant source package be removed?
<jdong> I am the uploader
<jdong> and it looks like the build is in infinite loop
<StevenHarperUK> Is there are standard way of highlighting your new Package that needs Translating to the Launchpad Translating Community?
<StevenHarperUK> If I want to add another language to my translation, is there a button to add a new language - without having to upload a blank template, I have noticed that if you manually change the URL from en-gb to ro you get the Romanian  page, but how do I get to a link that links there?
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, you just need to follow the "All languages" link, or change your preferred languages
<StevenHarperUK> All languages, only shows the ones I have uploaded blank po's to
<StevenHarperUK> How would someone make a NEW language
<StevenHarperUK> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+pots/easycrypt
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, what languages do you get in that list?
<StevenHarperUK> kiko: Any that a translator is willing to do
<StevenHarperUK> kiko: There should be a "Translate to New Language" button
<kiko> that's not what I meant. what languages do you see in that list?
<StevenHarperUK> kiko: I See en_UK and IT
<StevenHarperUK> kiko: i mean en_GB and it
<kiko> I see pt_BR, en_GB and it.
<kiko> so while there may be a bug that you can't see the links unless you've selected a preferred language, it works out mostly fine.
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, if you think the bug is worth filing, do it :)
<AuntyProton> Howdy...
<AuntyProton> I have a request for an update on a software package, the desktop wiki program Zim.  It needs to be updated to their latest version.
<kiko> AuntyProton, you're in the wrong channel. maybe #ubuntu-motu, but they are going to ask you to file a bug I think
<AuntyProton> Oh.  Well, this was the channel listed on the bug board registration e-mail.  I'll go over there.
<kiko> AuntyProton, the bug board registration email?!
<ubotu> New bug: #165194 in launchpad "Rename LaunchpadScript.add_my_options method" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165194
<ubotu> New bug: #165200 in launchpad "Proper LaunchpadScript transaction handler" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165200
<ubotu> New bug: #165205 in launchpad "OOPS changing team ownership to a invited member" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165205
<PriceChild> My ppa still hasnt' been cleared. https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/17826 remains unsolved. Uploads and created debs are now nolonger showing at +archive, ... but build records are there and source/binaries are still in the repo.
<StevenHarperUK> kiko: I raised a bug/wish https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/165209
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165209 in launchpad "Choose to Create new Language Translation for a Package" [Undecided,New] 
<kiko> cprov, ping.
<cprov> kiko: pong
<kiko> cprov, can you check out PriceChild's issue above? I saw his question unanswered too.
<cprov> PriceChild: let me check
<cprov> PriceChild: you can start uploading new sources, it will trigger the processes to clean up old files from your repo.
<kiko> cprov, can you explain? doesn't death row run independently?
<cprov> PriceChild: the build records won't be removed.
<cprov> kiko: no, the sources were not dominated yet.
<kiko> cprov, I don't quite understand. isn't this a manual removal?
<cprov> kiko: yes, it is a manual removal, but it's up to the publisher to calculate if all references to the file in pool are gone and then whether it should be removed or not.
<ubotu> New bug: #165209 in launchpad "Choose to Create new Language Translation for a Package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165209
<ubotu> New bug: #165211 in launchpad-answers "ValueError sending mailnotification for a question" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165211
<PriceChild> Thankyou kiko, cprov, just trying again now.
<cprov> PriceChild: np, thank you for the feedback.
<PriceChild> Can't wait for the ability to remove them myself as the upstream for gizmod has a habit of making changes to releases, after release :P
<PriceChild> cprov, just got a message from librarian, complaining that the md5sums don't match :/
<PriceChild> The old orig.tar.gz is still there and its not shifting :/
<kiko> yeah, that's a problem. 
<kiko> cprov, can we trigger this manually?
<cprov> kiko: not easily, the whole procedure is triggered only by a pending-publication record, which we can't emulate in a empty PPA
<kiko> PriceChild, if you publish /anything/ to your PPA it should work, I think.
<jdong> can you guys abort https://edge.launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/+build/454839  and all the queued builds for that package?
<jdong> the packagin has an infinite loop build bug due to a bashism
<jdong> it've been building for 24 hours :)
<kiko> not sure -- can we cprov?
<PriceChild> kiko, what so if i upload some random package with unchanged source frmo ubuntu for example... things will clear then i'll be able to build what I really want to again?
<kiko> PriceChild, that's what I think cprov was saying.
<StevenHarperUK> kiko: can you look at this page : https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+pots/easycrypt : the italian says 60 strings not translated, however if you open it and filter them only 4 are not done - is this a bug?
<PriceChild> Oh sorry I didn't understand last time :)
<cprov> jdong: let me check
<jdong> cprov: thanks
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, sorry, I'm busy right now. ask a question as per the /topic, or talk to carlos, danilo_ or jtv 
<StevenHarperUK> kiko: ok no problem
<StevenHarperUK> Can someone help me confirm if this is a bug : if you look at this page : https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/easycrypt/trunk/+pots/easycrypt : the italian says 60 strings not translated, however if you open it and filter them only 4 are not done - is this a bug?
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: that's indeed a bug
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: do you know if its a known bug : or shal I go search
<carlos> please, file a bug
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: roger roger
<carlos> is the first time I see it...
<jtv> carlos: looks like the changed-in-launchpad count is not subtracted from the untranslated count, doesn't it?
<carlos> I guess...
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I think its because I uploaded the italian po empty
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: with all blank strings
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: that shouldn't be a problem
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: I have added that inof to the bug
<StevenHarperUK> carlso "shouldnt"
<StevenHarperUK> carlos: bug #165218
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165218 in launchpad "Number of Translated Strings not correct" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165218
<carlos> StevenHarperUK: thank you
<cprov> jdong: done, the manualdepwait won't be collected anyway. upload a new source with the code-fix and it will be fine.
<jdong> cprov: thanks!
<ubotu> New bug: #165218 in launchpad "Number of Translated Strings not correct" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165218
<PriceChild> cprov, how long do you think I should have to wait?
<PriceChild> Do I now have to wait until after the cron at 3am?
<cprov> PriceChild: 8 minutes to get the new archive indexes.
<PriceChild> ah funky! :)
<cprov> PriceChild: yes, the files will be removed from poll only at 3am, but it doesn't block you to upload, publish and build new sources.
<jdong> PriceChild: why do you have to have the packages removed?
<PriceChild> jdong, upstream changed an orig.tar.gz after release
<jdong> PriceChild: wow that's stupid of them
<jdong> PriceChild: try +repack1 type version numbers on the orig?
<jdong> PriceChild: and have you tried smacking them for repacking stuff with the same version number?
<PriceChild> jdong, well yeah i've asked whether they could just bump the version a small amount or something... but no luck yet. Every time its happened so far, its been because of a bug i've informed him about meaning ftbfs on 64bit which he's fixed.
<PriceChild> cprov, in "it doesn't block you to upload, publish and build new sources"... by new sources do mean ones not already up there? or new copies?
<jdong> PriceChild: upload newer versions he means
<jdong> PriceChild: upploading two orig.tar.gz's with thee same version will error out
<PriceChild> Ok 3am it is then :)
<cprov> PriceChild: version that are not yet in the archive (pool)
<jdong> PriceChild: until then, smack your lovely upstream ;-)
<ubotu> New bug: #165223 in soyuz "Source packages should be dgettable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165223
<cprov> dup !
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: LP going down for maintenance 18:00 UTC - 18:05 UTC - https://launchpad.net/ | Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<ubotu> New bug: #165230 in launchpad "PPA generates an endlessly upgrading package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165230
<ubotu> New bug: #165232 in rosetta ""Download translations" option in the wrong place" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165232
<Kmos> kiko: bug 28459 (don't have a milestone set?)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 28459 in malone "Handle mid-air collisions in bug reports" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28459
<ubotu> New bug: #165258 in malone "upgrade to gutsy error python 2.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165258
<cprov> cprov
<cprov> err, sorry
<Fujitsu> cprov: Good to see we'll get our publishing table back soon. Thanks.
<cprov> Fujitsu: yup, in fact, an enhanced-version of the old table.
<Fujitsu> What's new? Dates?
<cprov> Fujitsu: the publishing life-cycle information (as we have today in the divs) in a expandable box below the table row.
<Fujitsu> That's what I suspected. That sounds good!
<Fujitsu> (well, I didn't expect the expander bit)
<cprov> Fujitsu: https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkim-milter/+publishinghistory
<cprov> Fujitsu: the target links are slightly more useful now.
<Fujitsu> cprov: That looks quite good.
<Fujitsu> The dates don't seem to follow the normal format, but that's not a bad thing.
<cprov> Fujitsu: yup, thanks to ScottK & LaserJock comments.
<cprov> Fujitsu: err, the bad-date-format is my fault :( I will get it fixed in a bit.
<Fujitsu> cprov: Might be nice to normally capitalise the publishing status and pocket constants, but it's not bad as it is.
<cprov> Fujitsu: you mean Release/Published instead of RELEASE/PUBLISHED ?
<Fujitsu> cprov: Right, like they are in most other places. It looks a bit strange at the moment, as you don't use `hardy' but `Hardy', etc.
<cprov> Fujitsu: we are going to update the other places to 'Hardy' at some point, it's the default series displayname.
<LaserJock> cprov: do you think you'll also linkify the release names in the top table at https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkim-milter/ too?
<Fujitsu> cprov: The inconsistencies in pocket display are a little strange. On that page we have both CamelCase and ALLCAPS, on the previous page it's nocaps.
<cprov> Fujitsu: uhm, not sure if I'm going to change the sources page in this chunk.
<cprov> Fujitsu: it's consistent by itself, every reference to pocket is lowercase, right ?
<Fujitsu> cprov: I can see why they're different in the index page, as it looks better. But ALLCAPS looks strange in the new (old) table, I think.
<cprov> Fujitsu: yes, I'm changing it to either Release or release
<Fujitsu> cprov: Thanks, that's likely better.
<Fujitsu> </nitpick>
<Fujitsu> cprov: Something went thoroughly wrong with https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compizconfig-bindings/0.0.0+git20070615-0ubuntu2
<Fujitsu> Why did it try to rebuild it in Hardy?
<Fujitsu> (and then fail to upload, of course)
<cprov> Fujitsu: let me check
<Fujitsu> cprov: Similar thing happened in https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/gtk-xfce-engine/2.3.0cvs20050306-2, but for much longer.
<Fujitsu> Hardy has revived a number of very old builds (happycoders-emacs, among numerous others)...
<cprov> Fujitsu: there was a failure in the algorithm to catchup lost-builds across all series, but it's already fixed.
<cprov> Fujitsu: although you've pointed sources with problems that should be cleaned.
<Fujitsu> cprov: There are quite a few, and it would be nice to have them off our FTBFS page.
<Fujitsu> cprov: But the records won't be recreated next release?
<cprov> Fujitsu: no, they won't be created again
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
<cprov> Fujitsu: if you are working to isolate those cases let me know, I can help you and benefit of the results as well ;)
<Fujitsu> cprov: Well, we can see that there are quite a number on http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/out.html
<cprov> Fujitsu: nice page !
<Fujitsu> cprov: It would be nice to have that in LP, rather than hitting it with a lot of requests, but...
<cprov> Fujitsu: we can think about it ;) I have to go now ... see you later. 
<Fujitsu> cprov: Bye!
<jdong> ok, this is awfully embarassing, https://edge.launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/+build/456133
<jdong> can someone abort that again for me?
<kiko> hmm, I can't
<jdong> oh is that a cprov only thing? :(
<jdong> oh well I guess a lot of i386 PPA uploaders will just have to be pissed at me ;-)
<kiko> might be just him I'm not sure
 * LaserJock kicks jdong 
 * jdong sheepishly grins
<LaserJock> I was gonna upload some stuff today too :(
<jdong> kiko: wouldn't it be a good feature to have a timeout on builds?
<jdong> LaserJock: there's more i386 builders, no?
<LaserJock> jdong: yeah, but the way you're going you'll have'em all DOSed by the end of the day ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: lol local pbuilder probation for me on mpeg4ip :)
<kiko> yes.
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
 * somerville32 wonders if mpt knows how annoying that is to hear when he is barely able to stay awake :P
<jdong> somerville32: how about transition metal coordination complexes?
<somerville32> ... Good Morning mpt.
 * jdong goes back to reviewing for his test and weeping for himself
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> is there documentation for the Python launchpadbugs module somewhere?
<RainCT> oh ok, found it
<ubotu> New bug: #165283 in malone "The +txt listing for a bug is missing mentoring information" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165283
#launchpad 2007-11-27
<glatzor> hello, I cannot commit any changes to my branch hosted at Launchpad anymore
<glatzor> I always get the following error: No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"
<glatzor> afterwards bzr hangs forever
<glatzor>  bzr+ssh://glatzor@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Edisplayconfig-gtk/python-xrandr/main/
<lifeless> glatzor: AIUI its actually pushing, unless you have hit ctrl-C, which actually breaks it
<mwhudson> glatzor: or it might be locked
<mwhudson> try sftp
<glatzor> mwhudson: lifeless: I already made a break-lock
<mwhudson> glatzor: but that's a bit erratic over bzr+ssh too :/
<glatzor> this happened after I was asked for my ssh passphrase, but I was to busy to enter it immediately. entering it after some minutes resulted in this situation
<glatzor> ok, using sftp is a workaround
<glatzor> thanks
<LaserJock> cprov-out: how long are you gonna be up?
<cprov-out> LaserJock: dunno, 20 minutes or so
<LaserJock> k, trying to get the source
<LaserJock> cprov-out: hmm, where are you getting the source?
<LaserJock> from what's on the PPA?
<cprov-out> LaserJock: http://ppa.launchpad.net/schooltool-owners/ubuntu gutsy
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> well, I found the source that they have on the schootool.org site too
<LaserJock> hmm, that's some lovely packaging
<cprov-out> LaserJock: do you suspect of something in the package itself ?
<carlos> good night!
<LaserJock> cprov-out: well, apt has been around for a long time ;-)
<LaserJock> my first guess is always packaging
<LaserJock> cprov-out: have you by chance reproduced it?
<cprov-out> LaserJock: well, it could also be the indexes generated by LP :(
<LaserJock> cprov-out: could be yes
<cprov-out> yes, it's trying to update the package in my machine
<cprov-out> LaserJock: do you know how to make apt *verbose* on its actions ?
<LaserJock> cprov-out: do you think this could possibly be caused by the ogre-model crush?
<LaserJock> like what happens if it gets confused about component? is that a possibility?
<LaserJock> cprov-out: try apt-get -V
<cprov-out> LaserJock: no luck
<LaserJock> cprov-out: I'm trying it now as well
<LaserJock> cprov-out: I just don't know dude
<LaserJock> I don't see anything obvious
<cprov-out> LaserJock: yes, me neither ... better go to bed and try this again tomorrow.
<cprov-out> LaserJock: thanks for the help and g'night.
<LaserJock> cprov-out: yeah, I gotta get home, I'll try to poke it again some and let you know if I figure anything out
<cprov-zZz> LaserJock: great, thank you.
<j1mc> hi all.  i'm getting an error when trying to push something to launchpad via bzr.   (http://pastebin.ca/798862) can anyone help?
<Fujitsu> j1mc: You can't push over HTTP...
<Fujitsu> You need to use sftp or bzr+ssh.
<j1mc> Fujitsu: here's the command i'm using: bzr push bzr+ssh://jwcampbell@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/xubuntu-hardy
<beuno> j1mc, did you do bzr unbind?
<j1mc> beuno: i tried it.  it gave errors, too.  might it because i did a lightweight checkout?
<beuno> j1mc, let's take this back to #bzr     <----    :D
<j1mc> ok
<Fujitsu> j1mc: You'll have to rebind. Just bind to bzr+ssh, etc.
<Hobbsee> cprov-zZz: erm, why did i get subscribed to a spec that i cant read?  :)
<j1mc> Fujitsu: pardon me, but how would i rebind?  i am new to bzr.
<beuno> j1mc, maybe bzr bind bzr+ssh...?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: because you know if something going on with that something
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: eparse?
<j1mc> beuno: i'll try.  thx.
<Hobbsee> oh, as in, i'll see when it's all done, or what it's general status is - just not how they're going to do it?
<LaserJock> exactly
<ubotu> New bug: #165322 in ubuntu "Launchpad bug reporting needs a 'me too' button (dup-of: 149775)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165322
<jml> Hello hello
<thumper> hello hello
<jml> Shall we have a reviewer meeting?
<thumper> lifeless may not be around for the meeting
<jamesh> hello hello hello
<thumper> and I am one handed as I'm eating dinner
<jml> I feel that we've become stalled.
<jml> Shall I run it then?
<thumper> jml: go for it!
<jml> = Meeting Starts =
<jml> Welcome to the Launchpad Reviewer meeting!
<jml> * Roll call
<thumper> here
<jml> BjornT, jamesh, jtv, lifeless: ping
<BjornT> hi
<jamesh> hi
<thumper> and that's a quorum
<jml> * Next meeting
<jml> Same time next week, I assume.
<jml> I'm happy to chair.
 * thumper would really like it earlier
<thumper> but then we'd have EU problems
<thumper> I'll live
<jml> OK.
<jml> Nov 27+7, 0600 UTC
<jml> * Action items
<jml> I see there are two here for me
<jml> jml, create a ReviewerMeetingTemplate wiki page similar to BazaarMeetingTemplate with template for minutes and instructions on preparing the email. 
<jml>     *
<jml>       jml to confirm that SteveA's email about using properties rather than no-arg functions on view classes is in a relevant checklist on wiki
<jml> I'll get to those this week. Sorry about the delay.
<jml> * Queue status
<jml> How are your queues guys?
<jamesh> I didn't get round to allocating reviews yesterday
<thumper> mine is empty
<thumper> except for one
<jml> thumper: heh
<jml> jamesh: I see you have a massive branch in your queue
<thumper> well, visibly empty, but secretly not
<jamesh> jml: which one?
<thumper> SteveA's queue
<jml> oh, I misread
<jamesh> oh.  SteveA rubberstamped that
<jml> I can't see anything else to comment on here. Let's move on.
<jml> * Mentoring update
<jml> Anyone here a mentor?
<thumper> not me
<jml> Moving on.
<jml> * Review process changes
<jml> Were these discussed at last week's meeting?
 * thumper doesn't think so
<jml> I don't feel qualified to chair a discussion on these without knowing what sort of outcome we are expecting from that discussion.
<jml> You've got five seconds to say something :)
<jml> Done.
<jml> * Any other business
<jml> 3
<jml> 2
<jml> 1
<thumper> me
<jml> thumper: go
<thumper> what to people think about flacoste's idea of team leads not doing on call reviewing?
<thumper> BjornT ?
<jml> thumper: it has a practical ring to it.
<BjornT> i think that's a quite sane idea. we should have enough reviewers to go around anyway, and there's nothing stopping team leads from helping out doing reviews, even though they are not officially on-call
<thumper> right, that's generally my thoughts too
 * thumper is done now
<jml> ok.
<jml> Then so am I.
<jml> = Meeting ends =
<jml> I'll talk to Barry to understand the agenda better.
<thumper> thanks jml
<jamesh> thanks jml
<jml> np.
<ubotu> New bug: #172248 in launchpad "milestone pages should (optionally) hide finished bugs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172248
<ubotu> New bug: #172253 in rosetta "Translation overview pages for distro and project should link to filtered PO file pages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172253
<ubotu> New bug: #172256 in launchpad "Builds page erroneously reports no packages building" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172256
<carlos> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi carlos.
<glatzor> mpt: where can I enable the bug tracker for my launchpad project? the option seems to be quite hidden
<mpt> glatzor, wow, coincidence
<mpt> I'm just right now transcribing one of the user test videos where someone has the same problem 
<glatzor> :)
<mpt> So until we fix it, the steps are: (1) tabs > "Overview" (2) Actions > "Change details" (3) scroll down to "Bugs are tracked in: [ ] Launchpad"
 * Fujitsu has helped a few people find that in the past, too.
<glatzor> mpt: would be nice to have this on the bugs tab
<mpt> I think it should be visible directly from the table on the right of the Overview page, and on the Bugs tab, yes
<glatzor> mpt: thanks.
<glatzor> mpt: how can I add files to the download section?
 * Fujitsu thinks you need to add a series, then a release, then add files within that release.
<mpt> glatzor, what Fujitsu said
<mpt> ... which also should be more obvious
<Fujitsu> Or perhaps there could be some documentation.
<Fujitsu> Preferably both, I guess.
<mpt> Writing documentation would be quicker for us. Fixing the dang problem would make it quicker for users.
<Fujitsu> Some content in the help tab (that must be a first, except for launchpad-bazaar) of +download might help once Launchpad stops crying wolf.
<mpt> We have a plan for the wolf problem
<Fujitsu> That is very probably a good thing.
<Fujitsu> What are you going to do to it?
<mpt> It's not approved yet. Ask me again in two weeks. :-)
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<ubotu> New bug: #172275 in soyuz "vmware-server in feisty-commercial keeps getting reinstalled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172275
<chx> mwhudson: hi. thanks for fixing the Drupal main branch! Would it be possible to mirror DRUPAL-5 and when it comes (soon), DRUPAL-6 too?
 * mwhudson blinks
<mwhudson> chx: was that me? :)
<chx> mwhudson: I do not know but someone fixed the Drupal branch.
<chx> mwhudson: it stoppped updating I complained here to you, I fild a question on launchpad
<chx> mwhudson: and now, it seems like up to date.
<mwhudson> chx: ok, cool :)
<mwhudson> chx: but in general we only mirror the trunk series of development
<chx> mwhudson: the last commit as of liek ~40 minute ago is not yet mirrored but i guess it will eb soon. i do not know how often the mirror script runs
<chx> mwhudson: fine, fine
<mwhudson> chx: cvs repos get updated every 12 hours by default
<chx> mwhudson: ouch. may I get a speedier update :) ?
<mwhudson> yes, it should be possible
<chx> mwhudson: http://ubuntu.com is Drupal. Does this give us some special position :D ?
<mwhudson> chx: probably :)
<chx> mwhudson: so, every 30 min :) ?
<mwhudson> eh, that's probably a bit too often
<chx> 31 min :D ?
<chx> sure. Hourly?
<mwhudson> the systems that run the imports are pretty heavily loaded
<chx> Whatever works for you, works for me.
<mwhudson> oh, haha
<mwhudson> it is already set to hourly
<chx> really?
<chx> great, great!
<mwhudson> but there are too many jobs being processed currently
<chx> I see.
<mwhudson> which is why it hasn't been updated for over an hour right now
<chx> Would donating help? Do you guys need funding or sabdfl provides practically infinite funds :) ?
<mwhudson> um
<mwhudson> we need more time and less other things to do i guess :)
<mwhudson> we're working hard on a more flexible code import system
<chx> great! we are working hard to provide a better CMS for all of you :)
<mwhudson> that would let us, e.g., give certain jobs higher priority
<mwhudson> chx: not my end of things at all :)
<ubotu> New bug: #172286 in launchpad-bazaar "timing out a branch puller worker leaves a locked branch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172286
<mwhudson> chx: but seriously man, cvs? :)
<chx> mwhudson: going over to svn is on the plate for 2.5yrs now
<chx> mwhudson: it looks more realistic after this SoC but it's extremely hard
<chx> mwhudson: we have.... what the stats was... um I remember 5000 projects maintained by 1000 people.
<chx> or something like that.
<mwhudson> i suppose svn would be a bit better ... :)
<chx> yes but what I am saying that we educated a legion of people to use cvs and no matter how easy it is , we will have another set of problems
<chx> we have integrated cvs pretty heavily
<chx> one of the most important parts, as said above, was rewritten in an RCS independent way during SoC with a CVS plugin and the SVN plugin has recently been written
<chx> but it's not easy
<chx> also, believe me I would be happier with bzr or git
<chx> but the lack of integration and fancy GUI shells makes it impossible. Think Tortoise here.
<mwhudson> ah right, that one
<chx> yes, that one
<mwhudson> the problem here is that the people who most understand bzr are the least likely to be using windows :)
<mwhudson> and most happy at the command line
<chx> well there is a tortoisebzr now
<chx> and believe me, the heaviest Drupal guns do not run Windows
<chx> especialyl the early DrupalCons looked like macfests :D
<ubotu> New bug: #172292 in rosetta "Don't offer Download translations to anonymous users" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172292
<chx> still, when nine of us walked into a bar in Barcelona to spend the evening with something good (read core hacking), there were like... what, two PCs, one being mine? Apple hardware does not fit my needs, sorry.
<mwhudson> i'm running gutsy on a macbook
<mwhudson> the wifi is occasionally infuriating but other than that it's a very nice machine
<chx> well, a macbook, from my viewpoint, and especially the macbook pro, is extremely heavy 
<chx> and also, very fragile.
<chx> I am running a Panasonic CF-Y5 which is very light and very very durable
<mwhudson> i feel this is getting off topic :)
<chx> it is :)
<chx> so back to RCS...
<chx> You also need the local "whatever RCS" guru
<chx> we have a CVS guru
<chx> we possibly can pull SVN off
<chx> but even if TortoiseBZR matures
<chx> I have no idea who will be the bzr "captain"
<chx> there are a few people using bzr
<chx> but aside from bzr pull -- bzr revert -- bzr diff we do not use bzr really.
<chx> as usual, the challenges are more human resources than technical
<mwhudson> it's hard to change this sort of thing because the costs are immediate and the benefits long term and often a bit vague seeming
<chx> the big problem here is that SVN would solve little at all of our problems
<chx> which are, people have a problem with grasping tags and branches
<mwhudson> what problems does cvs give you?
<mwhudson> ah
<chx> this is hardly cvs specific
<mwhudson> i've never understood branches in cvs :)
<chx> SVN is somewhat easier -- but then again, tags there are highly artifical unless you introduce some commit script nothing stops changing a tag, if i understand correctly
<Hobbsee> sky fallen in yet?
<kiko> not yet. we're waiting.
<Hobbsee> ah.  pity
<Hobbsee> cprov: when should i hope for an email?
<cprov> Hobbsee: ideally soon, but it's unlikely, sorry. BTW, do you have some time to help me to follow the soren's hint on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/165230 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165230 in soyuz "PPA generates an endlessly upgrading package" [Undecided,In progress]  - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
<soren> cprov: I'm right here, if you need me?
<cprov> soren: ahh, good. I wonder how the conflicting binary metadata was generated. Can you explain ?
<soren> cprov: Are the PPA's using apt-ftparchive?
<thegodfather> soren: same bug as partner
<soren> thegodfather: It smeels quite similar, yes. that's how I stumbled upon it.
<thegodfather> i am pretty sure it is
<thegodfather> PPA doesn't use apt-f-a IIRC
<Fujitsu> !primary uses NoMoreFTPArchive, I'm pretty sure.
<Fujitsu> +Apt there somewhere.
<soren> cprov: pkg-binarymangler replaces the maintainer, afair.
<cprov> soren: let's check the buildlog
<soren> cprov: I suppose it's debatable whether that should even be installed in ppa buildd's.
 * Hobbsee curses hardy
 * soren pats Hobbsee 
 * Hobbsee would appreciate it if X did not freeze
<soren> cprov: pkgmaintainermangler: Maintainer field overridden to "Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<soren> cprov: Where does NoMoreAPTFTPArchive get its info from?
<cprov> soren: when it process the incoming deb control-file
<soren> cprov: -v
<soren> cprov: That doesn't add up, IMO.
<Fujitsu> It looks like it's getting the maintainer from the source, not the post-mangling binary.
<soren> cprov: The Packages file does not match the control file from the control.tar.gz in the ar archive.
<soren> Fujitsu: Yeah, but it's got the right Depends..
<Fujitsu> soren: That's true.
<cprov> soren:  and the difference is only the 'Maintainer' field ?
<soren> cprov: For the package, I looked at, yes.
<soren> cprov: I've reported another similar bug that bigjools is looking at.
<soren> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/172275
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172275 in soyuz "vmware-server in feisty-commercial keeps getting reinstalled" [High,New]  - Assigned to Julian Edwards (julian-edwards)
<cprov> soren: uhm, the inconsistency source is that we use the Maintainer field set in the source metadata in the index and not the one coming in the binary controlfile
 * Fujitsu headdesks.
<soren> cprov: I see.
<soren> cprov: Ok, that doesn't explain the missing Pre-Depends, though.
 * Fujitsu suspects somebody left that out of the field whitelist...
<cprov> soren: 'pre-depends' is not modeled in NoMoreAF
<soren> cprov: It probably should be.
<thegodfather> cprov: EH?
<cprov> soren: ok, let's make it a bug.
<Hobbsee> should my crack alert be going off?
<Hobbsee> cprov: is there any visible documentation on NMAFA?  either current, or future plans?
<cprov> Hobbsee: there is a spec, but it's private. We should indeed cook a public documentation for it
<Hobbsee> yay.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you know, i really think that cprov should make the use of yada mandatory for packages to build in PPAs.
<Fujitsu> YES!
<Hobbsee> mutating packaging files would be fun!
<Fujitsu> Heh heh heh.
<Hobbsee> and oh so much simpler, when there's only one file of importance
<cprov> Hobbsee: I have no idea what are you talking about. Can you point me to some doc on this ?
<Hobbsee> cprov: you don't want to know, and you want to run away and hide before Fujitsu gets violent
<Hobbsee> oh my goodness, it's mutated into something mroe evil!
<ubotu> New bug: #172308 in soyuz "BinaryPackageRelease should store 'Pre-Depends'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172308
<Fujitsu> cprov: yada is one of the most evil of packaging `aids' to ever exist. It mutates control files and such on each build, and was just brought up by myself in #-motu.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dude....please file a removal request for it, before it takes over.
<Hobbsee> Description: Yet Another Debianisation Aid
<Hobbsee>  YADA is a Debian packaging helper.  It parses a special file,
<Hobbsee>  debian/packages, in a source package, and generates an appropriate
<Hobbsee>  debian/rules to control building of the package.
<Hobbsee>  .
<Hobbsee>  This package provides YADA script.
<Hobbsee>  .
<Hobbsee>  The /usr/bin/yada script can be also copied as source package's debian/yada
<Hobbsee>  file if this package won't be available on system for package building.
<Hobbsee> the latter part is new.
<Hobbsee> even purging yada is not enough - you now need to purge all yada-infested files.  it's a virus!
<cprov> aff ..
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, now you're not annoyed at NMAFA, are you?  :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Heh.
<Fujitsu> cprov: In Soyuz's current state, sources are semi-published on upload, so we sort of have build-from-accepted?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: we've got binaries in the accepted queue already.  unsure if you can see them
<Hobbsee> iirc
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: or replace sbuild with checkinstall, if you really want some crack.
<kiko> wake up launchpad
<Hobbsee> it's sleepy.  you should feed it more
<PriceChild> cprov, my ppa still hasn't cleared :/
<cprov> PriceChild: the indexes or the pool ?
<PriceChild> well there's nothing on my ~archive page... but it still shows all the source and binaries still there.
<PriceChild> * +archive
<PriceChild> apart from the upload i made last night that you said i should do
<cprov> PriceChild: URL ?
<PriceChild> https://edge.launchpad.net/~pricechild/+archive
<ubotu> New bug: #172320 in rosetta "Empty translations must be always represented with a TranslationMessage without translations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172320
<cprov> PriceChild: http://ppa.launchpad.net/pricechild/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/source/Sources seems to be correct
<PriceChild> cprov, its still rejecting my upload of version 3.4 (different md5sum to original)
<cprov> PriceChild: right, it is still published in http://ppa.launchpad.net/pricechild/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gizmod/
<PriceChild> So how do we unpublish it?
<Hobbsee> "you don't"
<Hobbsee> or you madly petition bigjools to code you a way to do it :P
<PriceChild> Hobbsee, I know I can't yet (feature on way?)... but surely there must be a way for them to do it seen as other people have had this fixed for them...
<cprov> PriceChild: right, the information I passed you yesterday was inaccurate, gizmod _3.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1 source will be removed after 2007-11-27 17:40:16.293285 UTC, i.e, tonight. It was submitted to the 24 hours quarantine period.
<PriceChild> Great so 3 and a bit hours :)
<PriceChild> Thanks cprov.
<cprov> PriceChild: bear in mind that the removal procedure only runs at 3am, you will have to wait a little bit more, sorry.
<Hobbsee> cprov: 3am UTC?
<_MMA_> Sorry. I can imagine this might have been asked a bunch. I cant log in to LP. Is there a issue right now? I cleared cookies and all.
<cprov> Hobbsee: yes
<PriceChild> cprov, wait I'm confused then... when you mark something for deletion, It has to wait for at least 24 hours before it is queued for deletion incase I change my mind?
<cprov> PriceChild: yes for the first part, but it's not exactly to cover the changing-mind case.
 * Hobbsee wonders if it has then had time to definetly hit the backups
<cprov> PriceChild: it's just to allocate in-progress work of new versions possibly depending on what you are removing.
<Hobbsee> cprov: which means what, in laymans terms?
<Hobbsee> cprov: what difference does it make when you remove it, if other stuff depends on it?
<Hobbsee> it's still going to break, no matter when you remove it
<cprov> Hobbsee: no, new versions depending on the same orig would hold the file in disk, for instance
<Hobbsee> cprov: depending? why?
<Hobbsee> oh!
<Hobbsee> cprov: so...then you're assuming that the packages will have built within the 24 hours, so then you can remove part of the source?
<cprov> I'm not sure if the exactly intent of this feature in the real world, but it's one of the effects it causes
 * Hobbsee thought you removed by entire package, not just a version of a package
<PriceChild> ah so like removing ~ppa1 means it needs to wait 24 incase there's a ~ppa2 scheduled to build?
<Hobbsee> cprov: what other things does it cause?
<cprov> Hobbsee: gives time for daily backup-procedure 
<Hobbsee> cprov: which means that data is never removed from LP fully, then - even deleted stuff.
<cprov> Hobbsee: but currently it's done hourly ;) 
<Hobbsee> cprov: what...because LP is likely to fall over more regularly than once a day?  :P
<cprov> Hobbsee: it will be removed fully when a new sources series is started, so the old orig is not need anymore
<Hobbsee> cprov: i dont understand "sources series"
<Hobbsee> i've never understood launchpad's series stuff.
<Hobbsee> unless it's a form of mozilla-esque
<cprov> Hobbsee: versions that share the same upstream source (orig.tar.gz)
<Hobbsee> cprov: do you remove by versions of a package, or do you nuke the entire package?
<cprov> Hobbsee: by version
<cprov> {source,binary}packagerelease 
<Hobbsee> cprov: right, that explains a bit more...
 * Hobbsee still thinks there's some botched logic there, but it makes somewhat more sense.
<cprov> Hobbsee: I believe we could get rid of the quarantine period for PPA deletions.
<Hobbsee> cprov: erm...how does soyuz blow up if it's published a source package, but can't find the original tarball to build?
<Hobbsee> does sbuild curl up and die, and lock up the builld in question, or?
 * Hobbsee has no running sbuild, so cannot check.
<Hobbsee> hang on, i could ssh into a friends machine and check - if i actually knew the runes to call sbuild.
<cprov> Hobbsee: builders grab sources directly from librarian, so they won't blow if they are not in the archive.
<Hobbsee> cprov: oh, so you're not actually deleting the files (orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz, .dsc) from librarian at all?
<cprov> Hobbsee: although we would detect the lack of source when processing the binary (it has never happened, since deletions are done carefully)
<cprov> Hobbsee: no, librarian has the *world* and the files are offered via LP UI
<Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: so when you're talking about "delete", you actually mean "hiding it from the user, so it appears to be deleted, but isn't"
 * Hobbsee wonders if the buildds then pick it up from librarian or the LP UI, then.
<cprov-lunch> Hobbsee: well, the immediate deletion result is 'exclude it from the archive indexes'
<Hobbsee> if librarian, then surely hiding it on the UI wouldn't help you.
<Hobbsee> right, yes
<cprov-lunch> Hobbsee: later on it will result in remove the file from the archive disk
<Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: the archive disk - but never librarian too?
<cprov-lunch> Hobbsee: exactly, librarian will stored the sources and binaries as long as we think it's useful
 * Hobbsee suddenly is reminded of "google:  do no evil"
<cprov-lunch> or better s\will store\can store
 * Hobbsee checks what the LP privacy policy says about that
<cprov-lunch> err ... evil word was mentioned, it definitely means "lunch-time" :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: ah, it is there.  "Launchpad retains all data submitted by users permanently. "
<Hobbsee> unless it's inappropriate.  great.
<Hobbsee> ah, yes, and then you use the "delete", which means "hide from view", not delete as in real delete - but never actually say that.
<Hobbsee> as it's not mutually exclusive with the "Launchpad retains all data submitted by users permanently. " statement.
<kiko> Hobbsee, we sometimes delete porn spam if it's bad porn. 
<Hobbsee> kiko: this would be covered under the "canonical deems it inappropriate" clause, yes.
 * kiko had a weird dream about porn tonight. yes, insert random quote about porn in dreams and disturbed engineers
<kiko> I was at a race conference, having dinner
<kiko> and I gave the organizers a DVD to show which was of a race that happened this year
<kiko> and it had racing but it then clipped into a porn video much to my chagrin
<Hobbsee> now, i wasn't going to say that....but
<Hobbsee> heh
<kiko> it was horribly embarassing. but nobody but me seemed to care
<Hobbsee> maybe they liked it.  *shrug*
<Hobbsee> maybe it was more interesting than the race :P
<kiko> I think it's more an artifact of it being in a dream
<Hobbsee> yeah well.  you clearly have strange dreams.
<kiko> I shouldn't have dinner that late
<welterde> anyone an idea why antargis-trunk failed importing?
<mrevell> LaserJock: Hi
<LaserJock> hi mrevell 
<mrevell> Hey LaserJock. Do you have a few minutes to chat about tomorrow's PPA 101 session?
<LaserJock> sure
<Hobbsee> anything interesting?
<mrevell> LaserJock, Hobbsee: I think the most useful thing would be to adopt the same intro section as last time and devote most of the session to Q&A. Would you agree?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> Hobbsee and I talked about it a little last night
<Hobbsee> mrevell: yes, although depends on how long the intro section is
<LaserJock> long lectures just end up wasting time
<Hobbsee> mrevell: for next time, it would be wise to stick the documentation in the blog post, and suggest that people read it to get full benefit out of the session
<mrevell> If you subtract the questions, last time we spent around 15 minutes on the intro, I think
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Thanks for the idea. I'll update the blog post.
<Hobbsee> 15 mins of reading text from one person is....less than fascinating, no matter the content
<LaserJock> perhaps an overview of what PPA is and what it's designed to deliver
<LaserJock> then we can launch into Q&A?
<mrevell> LaserJock: Yeah, that sounds good to me.
<mrevell> In which case, there isn't a great deal more to discuss right now :) I can give the intro to PPA and leave you guys to answer the questions :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: i'd like to see your intro to the ppa before you present it then, please.
<LaserJock> haha
<Hobbsee> i would presume LaserJock would also like a CC.
<LaserJock> yes, it would be helpful
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that being discussed...ponies!
<mrevell> Hobbsee, LaserJock: Would either of you prefer to present the intro?
<LaserJock> well, seems like an official LP person should do that
<Hobbsee> mrevell: would also be wise to send all ppa docs through knowledgable (about ppa) people.  ia64 != amd64, and those who know stuff about build systems would have spotted this earlier
<LaserJock> we're just the volunteer help ;-)
<Hobbsee> s/those who know stuff/those who know *far* too much stuff/
<Hobbsee> mrevell: i'm fine with someone else presenting it.  it's a LP thing, not a MOTU thing, and i think that if either LaserJock or I present it, it'll be seen as a MOTU thing.
<mrevell> Hobbsee: You are more than welcome to join the Launchpad Documentation Team that, time allowing, I'm planning to announce this week.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: of course, if it gets seen as a MOTU thing, then the MOTU's will get bugged about why certain bugs in it arent fixed...which is suboptimal.
<ubotu> New bug: #172353 in rosetta "Icon emblem names aren't translated." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172353
<Hobbsee> mrevell: like the above with MOTU, i'd be hesitant to be too far involved in PPA, without an employment contract on it - because people then think i can fix things in it, which I actually can't.  That also leaves me open to being blasted for things breaking, etc, which aren't my fault.
<Hobbsee> and i get blamed enough for stuff i cant control as it is :P
<LaserJock> hehe
 * LaserJock knows the feeling
<Hobbsee> mrevell: and it goes without saying that the level of a person's involvement of a project is direclty proportional to their frustration when they see things, which they really want to fix, but can't.
<mrevell> Okay, well, thanks guys for your help with tomorrow's PPA meeting and to Hobbsee for the public beating.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: sorry :)
<LaserJock> haha
 * Hobbsee hugs mrevell
<LaserJock> mrevell: she's good at that ;-)
 * LaserJock runs from the Ponies
<Hobbsee> oy!
<Hobbsee> mrevell: then again, i do have the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢ for a reason.
<mrevell> :)
<ubotu> New bug: #172373 in soyuz "Upload system error on duplicated version upload is misleading" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172373
<ubotu> New bug: #172377 in soyuz "PPA emails should have rationale header" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172377
<keescook> say, with inkscape having moved its bug tracker to LP, there is some weirdness with links back to the old tracker.  e.g. 16724 shows a link to sf 1204566, but that bug is now lp 170381.  Is there some way to fix all those mappings?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 170381 in inkscape "gnome-print still unsupported (causes segfault)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/170381
<thumper> morning
<ubotu> New bug: #172418 in launchpad "Show package updates by Ubuntu versions and/or programs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172418
<bd_> https://launchpad.net/+builds/samarium <-- this buildd seems to have been stuck on a looping shell script somewhere for over a day
<kiko> yeah, who submitted it again?
<somerville32> Is lp dead?
<somerville32> Everything keeps timing out on me
<somerville32> OOPS-696EB107
<kiko> yes, hang on for a bit while we do an update.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I wondered
<kiko> it was unexpected
<kiko> I had hoped it was going to be live but.. life being what it is.
<bd_> kiko: looks like the MOTU media team submitted it for their PPA
<kiko> bd_, do you have the URL for the build?
<bd_> https://launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/+build/456133
<somerville32> Why aren't the bugs that are assigned to me listed under the bugs I'm working on?
<kiko> somerville32, in progress.
<somerville32> Oh
<nouri> Hi.  We're thinking about migrating file downloads from Google Code to Launchpad for Plone.  Does Launchpad allow files to be downloaded from everywhere in the world?
<kiko> nouri, wow, that's very cool to hear.
<kiko> nouri, right now we don't have local mirrors, no, but it is planned.
<lifeless> nouri: yes it does
<lifeless> well, I guess it depends what you mean :)
<kiko> :)
<nouri> I mean, can people from Cuba download from Launchpad :)
<lifeless> nouri: yes.
<nouri> Okay, that's good to hear (that's not the case for Google code btw)
<lifeless> we're not a US service.
<nouri> Even better
<lifeless> ... we're in the free world :)
<nouri> I wonder who's the owner of the Plone project on Launchpad; where can I see that; I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/plone
<nouri> Oh, it has no Driver
<kiko> nouri, expand the box to the left
<kiko> registered by: https://edge.launchpad.net/~plone
<kiko> nouri, sounds like you want to be a member of that team. I can do that, but maybe you want to talk to Hanno?
<nouri> Yeah, I can talk to Hanno, but he's not online today, and I'd rather get started NOW :)
<nouri> I'm a Plone developer, see http://plone.org/news/plone-3.0-released/
<kiko> nouri, what's your LP ID?
<nouri> kiko: daniel.nouri
<kiko> nouri, added. please notify Hanno if you can. :)
<nouri> kiko: Thanks a lot!
<kiko> nouri, but tell me about this cuba problem.
<nouri> kiko: Do you guys have limits on file size?
<kiko> nouri, no.
<nouri> kiko: Well, Google Code doesn't serve them
<kiko> nouri, that is absolutely fucked.
<kiko> are you serious?
<nouri> Yes
<nouri> It *is* fucked
<nouri> One more thing kiko; do you guys have download stats?
<kiko> wtf
<kiko> nouri, not yet public. working on getting those public.
<nouri> kiko: It's available thorough the admin interface?
<kiko> nouri, no, just in the datacenter logs.
<nouri> kiko: I see; is there an ETA for landing this feature?
<kiko> nouri, I can make up an ETA if you want one. :)
<nouri> Hehe
<kiko> you know how ETAs and software go..
<kiko> but we need to do this work the next year. 
<nouri> I see
<nouri> kiko: But tell me, these stats, they are available, just need to be made public?
<nouri> kiko: So you're collecting right now?
<kiko> nouri, yes, we do track accesses to our webapp instance
<kiko> yes
<kiko> we need to parse them and then offer them for browsing via launchpad
<kiko> if you really really need this soon then I can put extra effort into doing it
<nouri> I know I'm annoying, but can we request getting these stats every month until the feature is available? :)
<nouri> It looks as if it's kinda important to some of us.
<kiko> find some undernourished engineer and give him some food, etc
<nouri> Hehe
<kiko> well
<kiko> for plone? sure we could do something.
<lifeless> kiko: re cuba, remember the US has an embargo; and various electronic export requirements
<lifeless> kiko: google code would either have to check and enforce that all their hosted content does not qualify as munitions (e.g. doesn't link to openssl :)), or they do location blacklisting
<gmb> !~
<nouri> kiko-phone: (I understand you're in a phone call -- and I can wait)
<nouri> kiko-phone: I'll be writing an e-mail to the Plone developers list; I'd like to get funding for the stats feature; if you could tell me if this would help, and in any case, when we could land this, that'd be very helpful
<kiko-phone> nouri, hmmm. so you can tell them this:
<kiko-phone> a) you can host file downloads and give them to anyone in the world, unlimited space, unlimited bandwidth. even brazilians can download.
<kiko-phone> b) we can give you webstats for plone downloads through a monthly report of some sorts
<nouri> kiko-phone: That's great!
<kiko-phone> c) we are committed to making this public with minimal hassle and while it does require engineering we can prioritize it for you.
<nouri> Thanks kiko!  That's surely good news.
<kiko> you're most welcome
<kiko> launchpad is more fun because we care about you
<kiko> that was meant to be d) but maybe they will find it cheesy
<nouri> I sure have the feeling
<nouri> hehe
<kiko> phew my phone will not stop ringing
<kiko> nouri, there are a lot of improvements we will do to file downloads in the near future
<kiko> so it's a good place to be
<nouri> Nice
<nouri> I'm sure everyone will agre
<kiko> well we will find out about that. I know that sidnei has been talking about bug tracking and it's been mixed. if you need help ask me
<nouri> Yeah, I've followed that discussion
<kiko> sidnei is well-meaning but we will see if we can find a way of addressing the other concerns
<kiko> okay let me get something to eat and reflect upon.
<ian_brasil> oo
<bd_> hmm, is it expected behavior that PPA builds should show 'pending' while there are idle xen builders?
<bd_> eg https://launchpad.net/~bdonlan/+archive/+build/457025 - iridium (xen-i386) is idle atm
<kiko-fud> bd_, not really.
<bd_> I've noticed there are delays of a few hours in there anyway - I figured they might be deliberate, to discourage upload-builderror-tweak cycles.
<bd_> but otoh it could also be a bug :)
<kiko-fud> looks like something's wrong.
<bd_> also do arch-indep builds always happen on i386?
<bd_> seems like rotating them might catch some more FTBFS errors :)
<kiko-fud> bd_, it's just something specific to the implementation in soyuz I think.
<kiko-fud> there is some rationale behind it but..
<bd_> which is, the i386 arch-indep builds or the delays?
<mpt_> Gooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<bd_> kiko-fud: seems to be going now
<kiko-fud> bd_, it's kinda my fault.
<bd_> hm?
<Rinchen> bd_, everything is kiko-fud's fault ;-)
<bd_> heh
<Rinchen> bd_, like, making LP work :-)
<bd_> kiko-fud: what's with the samarium builder btw? It's been stuck in some sort of loop for ... well, since PPA was unveiled :)
<bd_> (perhaps there should be a more obvious place to report possible builder problems? There's no bugtracker or whatever for the Build Daemon Maintainers group)
<kiko-fud> bd_, I'm waiting for celso to come back to fix it
<kiko-fud> bd_, you have a very good question there. we will soon!
<bd_> ah, good to hear :)
<bd_> Will the PPA repositories purge superseded binaries to save space? I know you can't purge the sources for a few years in order to comply with the GPL, but the binaries should be fair game.
<kiko-fud> if the binaries are gone the source can go too
<kiko-fud> and yes we purge both, bd_ 
<bd_> kiko-fud: wouldn't the sources need to be distributed for three years under gpl-2 section 3.b? You're not actually sending the sources with the binaries... and the homepage linked from debian/copyright may not include patches applied to the debian source...
<kiko-fud> bd_, I'm not sure, to be 100% honest, but I do know that Debian and Ubuntu do garbage collect sources and binaries.
<somerville32> The GPL is evil :/
<kiko-fud> so are kittens
<somerville32> But they're cute
<bd_> kiko-fud: mmm, debian has snapshot.debian.net of course... well, I'm no lawyer, so whatever. not my liability, right? :)
<kiko-fud> we have everything in the librarian, too. just not linked to. :)
<LaserJock> Ubuntu has the source archived, I believe for 3 years
<bd_> kiko-fud: ah, well, if it's in the librarian then I guess it's still available :)
<LaserJock> although you may have to request the source rather than apt-get source
<bd_> though - does the quota only count stuff live at ppa.launchpad.net, or does it include archived/superceded stuff?
<kiko-fud> bd_, only live stuff.
<bd_> ah, okay
<Flare183> When is the PPA Class going to start?
<LaserRock> 15:00 UTC
<Flare183> What's that in EST?
<LaserRock> umm, 11:00 maybe
<Flare183> am? or pm?
<LaserRock> am
<LaserRock> it's 8am PST
<Flare183> ok thanks
<ubotu> New bug: #172455 in malone ""Project" menu in project group bug-reporting page should be radio buttons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172455
<kiko-fud> go mpt go
<aa_> hi, would be great (imo) if each project came with a built in wiki. Something really simple, maybe even with a mximum of 10 pages or so. Has this idea been discussed?
#launchpad 2007-11-28
<ubotu> New bug: #172457 in launchpad "submitting milestone edit page returns me to the project home page" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172457
<kiko-fud> aa_, yeah, it has. it's on the roadmap.
<aa_> kiko-fud: great, thanks
<JanC> is there a place to report spam in launchpad bugs?
<Hobbsee> JanC: yeah.  when people are here, it's here, but otherwise it's probably a question on launchpad
<JanC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/34902/comments/174
<Hobbsee> JanC: what's the offending account?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 34902 in ubuntu "Ralink Wireless legacy drivers (rt2500 rt61 rt73 rt2570) USB/PCMCIA/PCI hangs PC" [High,Confirmed]  - Assigned to Ubuntu Kernel Team (ubuntu-kernel-team)
<Hobbsee> kiko-fud: please deal with ^
<jcastro> http://www.happyassassin.net/2007/10/24/mistakes/
<jcastro> you guys check this out?
<Fujitsu> jcastro: We have feared similar things for months.
<Hobbsee> jcastro: please file a bug on update-manager, if not already filed, to not let people upgrade with ppa's in the sources list.
 * Fujitsu notes that the main complaint there seems to be that they don't build against each other.
<Hobbsee> or at least a discussion bug
<Fujitsu> That seems to be a silly idea.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: does he cover the case yet where what happens when 2 packages of the same name are in different versions...which one to build against?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No.
<JanC> upgrading without ppa's in the sources list won't help much
<jcastro> Hobbsee: I am pretty sure this was already part of the plan.
<JanC> it's easily possible that a newer version is installed already...
<LaserRock> jcastro: seems like a fairly sane evaluation to me
<JanC> update-manager already disables all non-ubuntu repositories
<Hobbsee> JanC: no, do as they do for automatix
<Hobbsee> or, were *planning* to do for automatix, but forgot.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: then his view is somewhat simplistic, and broken in other ways
<aa_> hmm but can I format text in the roadmap? or link images?
<Fujitsu> aa_: Not at the moment.
<JanC> you mean disabling upgrading completely?
<aa_> Fujitsu: is it planned?
<Hobbsee> JanC: yup
<Fujitsu> aa_: There's a bug on that, I'll have a number for you in a sec.
<JanC> how do you see if there was a ppa configured in the past?
<aa_> Fujitsu: no it's cool, don't bother
<Hobbsee> JanC: but kde4 is in a ppa.  darn.
<LaserRock> Hobbsee: hehe, there's no way to have any level of "trust" currently
<JanC> plus, how many developers who know what they do will be blocked from upgrading by this?
<Fujitsu> aa_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/description-markup
<aa_> Fujitsu: thanks, I can't read the spec though because I don't have access to the dev wiki
<Hobbsee> JanC: hm, i'd guess that the idea would be that if anyone had any version of a base lib (stuff required for the  upgrade), that they'd refuse the upgrade.
<Fujitsu> JanC: I can imagine that there might be an option like -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark
<Hobbsee> aa_: neither can we.  
<Fujitsu> aa_: None of us can.
<aa_> wow
<Fujitsu> Only the Launchpad devs.
<Fujitsu> We are but mortals.
<aa_> I thought you were all devs
<aa_> you are admins?
<Hobbsee> hah.  no
<ajmitch> nope, and nope
<Fujitsu> We are simply mortals, not admins or devs.
<JanC> users probably  ;)
<aa_> I know kiko has something to do with it!
<Fujitsu> kiko is a god.
<Hobbsee> JanC: that, and a heck of a lot of force
<LaserRock> LP should also have some sort of homepage/wiki setup for projects too methinks
<aa_> I hack on one of kiko's open source projects.
<Hobbsee> perhaps it would be wise to change the upgrades, so they install ubuntu-standard ubuntu-minimal newly each time, and then look at upgrading the rest beyond that
<Fujitsu> LaserRock: That was what aa_ requested above.
<aa_> LaserRock: I agree, but I suspect that markup blueprints will work
<LaserRock> Fujitsu: well, sort of
<LaserRock> Fujitsu: you gave him a markup spec
<LaserRock> for descriptions
<LaserRock> etc.
<Fujitsu> `would be great (imo) if each project came with a built in wiki.'
<LaserRock> I think a full wiki/homepage area is needed
<Fujitsu> (that's what he said further up)
<LaserRock> Fujitsu: yes, I know :-)
<LaserRock> I was reiterating that it was a good idea
<aa_> well, to be honest markup in descriptions would actually be enough for me
<aa_> oh maybe a place to publish some API docs would be nice
<LaserRock> yeah
<ubotu> New bug: #172489 in malone "project advanced bug search page shows non-portlet content in left margin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172489
<Rotund> Are PPAs only for hardy?
<Hobbsee> no, you can build for any release
<Hobbsee> any supported releas
<Hobbsee> e
<Hobbsee> you just have to make sure you put the release you want in debian/changelog
<Rotund> okay
<Rotund> will it attempt to build for different architectures?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> i386 and amd64 (and lpia)
<Rotund> What if I want it to build for gutsy AND hardy?
<Hobbsee> you need to use a different version number for each
<Rotund> hmmm.  Okay
<Hobbsee> say, 1.0~ppa1~gutsy and 1.0~ppa1~hardy
<jamesh> Rotund: you could try the autoppa program
<Rotund> autoppa?
<Rotund> okay.  I see that now
<Rotund> Can someone help me w/ how to track an upstream project
<Rotund> Should I create a new project first?
<Rotund> (in launchpad that is)
<ubotu> New bug: #172501 in malone "reject non-code patch attachements" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172501
<ubotu> New bug: #172505 in malone "ability to convert a comment into a patch attachment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172505
<ubotu> New bug: #172507 in malone "show patch icon or notification on the comments page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172507
<LaserJock> hmm, I better get some karma for that :-)
<carlos> morning
<Amaranth> spam in comments: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-driver-i810/+bug/146728/comments/22
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 146728 in xorg "[Gutsy Beta] Dots on 16bit Video i810" [Undecided,Invalid] 
<LaserJock> carlos: did you get my email about the gcompris .pot?
<carlos> LaserJock: yes, although I had problems importing it due to a bug in Launchpad
<carlos> it should work now, though
<carlos> let me retry it...
<LaserJock> carlos: ok, now once it's imported what will happen? I'm a little unsure of the details
<LaserJock> carlos: will the translations that are already there be included in the lang packs?
<carlos> LaserJock: Launchpad will have latest messages, and with next language pack update, new messages that were already translated will be deployed
<carlos> yes
<LaserJock> carlos: awesome
<mrevell> Morning all!
<jtv> morning!
<Hobbsee> morning mrevell!
<mrevell> hey Hobbsee
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Shouldn't you be at work? :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: apparently not.  that's next week.
<mrevell> Hobbsee: ah
<Hobbsee> erm, if i'm now deactivated from a team, which i was an admin of...*why* am i still receiving admin mail about that team, from launchpad?
<Hobbsee> i also note that i can re-become administrator at any point, from the deactivated state, including changing other people's statuses.  I'm not sure that's supposed to happen either.
<ubotu> New bug: #172532 in blueprint "add the possibility to convert a blueprint into a bug report or vice versa" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172532
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Are you the owner, by any chance?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: What Fujitsu said... He typed it quicker than me :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my bad.  .
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: mrevell thanks, fixed.
 * Fujitsu didn't think LP permissions were that broken.
<Fujitsu> Though it does do strange things sometimes.
<Fujitsu> Like if I create a team, set the ownership to a team containing me, and deactivate myself from the new team, the deactivated record seems to take precedence in some circumstance.
<mrevell> Fujitsu: Sorry, I've re-read that a couple of times and I'm not sure what you mean.
<Fujitsu> mrevell: I created a team, and set the owner to a team of which I am a member.
<mrevell> right
<Fujitsu> I then deactivated myself from the new team, and LP seemed adamant that I wasn't a member.
<Fujitsu> Though this was a while ago.
 * Fujitsu checks if it has been fixed in the intervening months.
 * Hobbsee grumbles over html mail
<mrevell> Fujitsu: Ah, interesting. I suppose that could be the behaviour that some people would want, possibly.
<Fujitsu> mrevell: Perhaps.
<Fujitsu> Testing on staging, it seems it just reports it incorrectly in places; I have the expected permissions.
<Fujitsu> Evening, cprov.
<cprov> Fujitsu: hey 
 * Hobbsee waves to cprov, while taking over the world as usual
 * Fujitsu heavily defends his part of the world.
<mrevell> Fujitsu: I'm in a meeting at the moment, but I'll happily report it as a bug after that, unless you wanna report it. Thanks for pointing it out
<Fujitsu> mrevell: I'm reporting it, but thanks.
<mrevell> Fujitsu: thanks
 * carlos -> lunch
<ubotu> New bug: #172573 in soyuz "RFE:  Add a "retry all builds" and a "rescore all builds"  menu item" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172573
<mrevell> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> mrevell: pong
<mrevell> Hey - I'm gonna pastebin you something in a minute. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: yay :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: what is it?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Just my intro to the session.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: :D
<barry> hello everybody!
<salgado> me!
<intellectronica> me
<jtv> hello barry!
<barry> welcome to the ameu launchpad reviewer's meeting.  for the next 45 minutes or so we'll be conducting a meeting of the western half of the launchpad code review team
<mrevell> PPA Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom now! Sorry reviewer guys
<barry> jtv: hi!
<mwhudson> me
<barry> mrevell: no worries
<barry> who's here today?
<gmb> me
<jtv> me
<sinzui> me
<BjornT> me
<flacoste> me
<barry> bac sends his apologies
<barry> ddaa: ping
<barry> == Agenda ==
<barry>  * Roll call
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry>  * Graduations (and recruiting?)
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry>  * Review process changes
<barry>    * On-call reviewer
<barry>    * Cover letter
<barry>    * Death to [trivial]
<barry>    * Tool update
<ddaa> me
<barry> :)
<barry>  * Next meeting
<mwhudson> week += 1
<barry> mwhudson: indeed! :)  anyone know they can't make it?
<barry> great
<barry>  * Action items
<barry> no outstanding action items, except jml's old ones.
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry> week 1 and the queue looks fine to me
<ubotu> New bug: #172587 in soyuz "UI for deleting and copying packages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172587
<barry>  * Graduations (and recruiting?)
<barry> so congratulations intellectronica and sinzui for your recent graduation!
<gmb> Hear, hear.
<mwhudson> hooray
<jtv> good show!
<LarstiQ> congratulations!
 * sinzui opens the beer and starts reviewing
<barry> sinzui: ah, i can see you've learned well
<ddaa> recruiting?
<barry> mentors remember: email me when you think your mentoree is ready for graduation
<ddaa> need... moar... brainz
<barry> by my count we have 3 mentored reviewers now.  is it time for a couple more recruits?
<barry> can we bring anybody on board for the remainder of .12 or should we just wait until next cycle?
 * mwhudson leans towards the "wait another cycle" option
 * barry does too
 * gmb leans away from mwhudson 
 * ddaa wants more brains now
 * barry is ddaa's mentor, and sends more brains his way
<barry> which unfortunately depletes mine to nearly zero
<barry> cool. let's wait
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> mentors, anything to report?
<barry> i think that means salgado :)
<salgado> heh
<salgado> nothing from me
<barry> since the other two mentors are me and jamesh_ and he's not here now
<barry> and i've already sent all my brains to ddaa
<barry>  * Review process changes
<barry>    * On-call reviewer
<jtv> ddaa: next time you have a sandwich before the meeting, you hear?
<barry> i haven't heard from bac about his on-call experience and he's not here today
<barry> i already sent an email out about mine
 * mwhudson is on the hook tomorrow
<salgado> so am I
<barry> mwhudson: excellent.  you and salgado, so it'll be our first 2-reviewer day
<barry> good luck guys and please let us know how it goes!
<salgado> how long is the overlap going to be?
<barry> salgado: that's up to your schedule.  you should be primarily on-call during working hours
<intellectronica> i'm a rubbish on-call reviewer today, because i only decided to volunteer in the middle of the day, when i already had some work going, but my experience as a customer was great. i think this is a great arrangement
<mwhudson> salgado: i guess quite large, as i think we're only two hours apart currently
<barry> the one thing i'm uncomfortable with is how on-call works with the PendingReview queue.  yes, we want to kill the latter but in the meantime, we need to figure out how to make this work.
<kiko> I'm super happy as this seems like it's going well
<kiko> barry, on-call shouldn't use PR.
 * ddaa likes pendingreviews
<salgado> kiko, why not?
<kiko> barry, and PR should go away -- I look at mwhudson and gmb 
<barry> kiko: agreed (that it's going well)
<jtv> barry: maybe it's not so bad to have bothâfor different priorities
<ddaa> I like stuffing things there and have a review magically appear in my inbox
<salgado> I'm letting the on-call reviewers pick the oldest branches from there and review
<kiko> I don't like that as much
<salgado> by the end of the day I assign the ones that haven't been reviewed
<kiko> because it doesn't mean they are really on-call
<intellectronica> i also think we shouldn't be using PR. that defeats the whole purpose of on-calls
<kiko> what intellectronica said.
<barry> what kiko said intellectronica said
<kiko> when we have a tool to integrate PR with the review workflow, then it's fine
<kiko> but otherwise it is just more overhead
<salgado> I didn't see many review requests yesterday, and that seems to be the reason why bac was able to review most of the unallocated branches
<kiko> to ask the person asking and the person reviewing to deal with PR
<kiko> the whole idea is to do it fast
 * barry happily ignored PR while he was on-call
<kiko> cover letter: great, but editing PR, not so much
<intellectronica> i think a reviewee should talk to the reviewer - if they take the review then it should end in their queue, otherwise it can go to the general queue, but it's no longer an on-call review
<mwhudson> something that does seem to be happening is that there is less record of the review
<flacoste> that's just your disgust for wiki speaking kiko
<kiko> salgado, I think it's fine if the on-call person takes something out of PR if he's bored
<barry> i actually like editing PR, just not putting the branch on the general queue
<kiko> mwhudson, you and gmb are fixing that -- I hope.
<mwhudson> (no emails, etc)
<kiko> mwhudson, no emails? huh?
<kiko> so hang on 
<kiko> when /I/ did some on-calls
<intellectronica> kiko: editing the wiki sucks, but not having somewhere to refer to would suck even more
<kiko> I said the following
<mwhudson> kiko: just an impression i'm getting
<kiko> a) send me a cover letter and the patch
<kiko> b) I'll reply through email
<kiko> I didn't do an IRC review
<mwhudson> kiko: i think the cover letter should be cc:ed launchpad-reviews
<kiko> but I did it quasi-immediately (so I'm a bad on-call reviewer. I still did it)
<mwhudson> kiko: has that always happened?
<kiko> mwhudson, the whole exchange should be CC:d
<kiko> mwhudson, I'm not sure, but that's how I see this working best
<mwhudson> kiko: i think we're agreed then
<kiko> cool.
<kiko> mwhudson, when the tool is ready, it will make changing PR much easier
<kiko> and then we can use PR as our backing store to ensure we also record on-call
<barry> irc on #launchpad-reviews should be mandatory for the branch author, but that's to have an interactive q&a with the reviewer.  still, all decisions should be captured in the reviewer's response via email
<kiko> but meanwhile I feel like whatever makes people's life easier is best 
<kiko> barry, right.
<kiko> I think we have a fair set of guidelines, just need barry to publish them
 * kiko winks
 * barry will edit him some wikis
<barry> last thing on this topic...
<barry> there are still open slots, so feel free to sign up :)
<barry> anything else re: on-call reviewing?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry>    * Cover letter
<barry> i hesitate to bring this up ;)
<barry> cover letters good!
<kiko> thanks barry. gotta rush :)
<flacoste> barry, regarding on-call reviewer, the only non-team lead who didn't sign up is jamesh
<flacoste> barry: and mentoree reviewer, so you know who to poke ;-)
<barry> flacoste: interesting
<flacoste> well, there's also spiv, but he's more part of bazaar now
 * barry takes out his pointed stick
 * ddaa would sign up, but is still mentored
<gmb> Ditto.
<barry> cool, thanks
<barry> how have you guys gotten cover letters and what do you think is working best?
<barry> email? pastebin? something else?
<salgado> email, please, together with diff
<gmb> I've received one pastebinned one.
<intellectronica> pastebin is great, except that it doesn't word-wrap
<ddaa> Got and wrote a couple. I find pastebin (linked from pendingreviews) is the most convenient.
<gmb> Not line-wrapped.
<salgado> why do you guys find pastebin more convenient?
<intellectronica> perhaps a wiki page would be best
<gmb> I think pastebin helps because when you submit to PR you don't actually have a reviewer to email
<barry> gmb: that's my biggest complaint about pastebinning
 * BjornT agrees with salgado 
<intellectronica> salgado: because you can reference it from the wiki
<gmb> But I'd rather get emails.
 * mwhudson mumbles something about tool support
 * gmb points at mwhudson's mumbling.
<ddaa> because it can be hyperlinked easily
 * barry grumbles that no one likes his commit-to-branch idea ;)
<barry> tool support == +1
 * ddaa finds barry brains have a funny taste
<gmb> barry: Since BRANCH.TODO was frowned upon...
<jtv> barry: *I* like your commit-to-branch idea...
<salgado> so, it seems like for reviewees the most convenient is pastebin/wiki
<flacoste> i think email CC launchpad-reviews is bet
<salgado> whereas for reviewers the best is email
<flacoste> best
<mwhudson> so the plan for tool support is that you'll say
<mwhudson> bzr review-submit
<PriceChild> cprov, the epic saga continues btw... source has now gone from pools, but the sums of sources an debs doesn't add up on my ppa page and on uploading 3.4, I get "Rejected: This sourcepackagerelease is already accepted in gutsy."
<salgado> maybe we could tweak our pastebin to trigger an email from any paste?
<gmb> 0.o
<mwhudson> and the plugin will compute the diff, prompt you to edit a cover letter,
 * gmb thinks about the number of mis-pastes his made
<mwhudson> upload it to gmb's web thingy (which will allocate a reviewer)
<gmb> Indeed.
<mwhudson> and email the reviewer, launchpad reviews
<mwhudson> the cover letter/diff will be visible through the web too
<barry> mwhudson: will it take a switch to specify a cover letter file?
<mwhudson> barry: oh yes
<mwhudson> switches for diff, cover letter and to force a reviewer choice
<cprov> PriceChild: on meeting, we can talk in 30 minutes, ok ?
<barry> mwhudson: rock on.  it sounds dreamy
<mwhudson> gmb: we should have a call some time to work out what needs to be done to deploy this
 * barry clears mwhudson's plate so he can concentrate on this tool, even though he has no authority to do so
<gmb> mwhudson: sure.
<barry>    * Tool update
<mwhudson> gmb: friday morning?
<PriceChild> cprov, of course :) I'm not the most important thing in the world and have 3/4 months to get this done :P
<gmb> mwhudson: Works for me.
<barry> gmb and mwhudson you guys are awesome.  thanks for working on this!
<barry> anything more on cover letter or tool?
<BjornT> mwhudson: i think it'd be reasonable to do the client part, before doing the server part. just having a cover letter sent to launchpad-reviews would help.
<mwhudson> BjornT: ok, that part's nearly ready
<barry> BjornT: until the server is done, the tool could wordwrap the cover letter and pastebin it
<mwhudson> i need to work on the configuration a bit
<flacoste> I insist, cover letters should always be Cc to launchpad-reviews
<BjornT> barry: well, i'd still prefer having it in my mail client, together with the diff
<flacoste> (pastebin in addition is fine)
<barry> flacoste: exactly
<ddaa> no to automatic word-wrapping
<ddaa> guys here should know how to product a properly hard-wrapped text document...
<BjornT> yeah, everyone should use a editor that wraps the text for them
<barry> ddaa: only word wrap the pastebin copy because pastebin R dumb.  don't wrap the email copy
<barry> ah yeah, okay good point
<barry> nm :)
<barry> anything else?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry>    * Death to [trivial]
<barry> still controversial i think
<barry> is there anything we can say here that isn't already on the email thread?
<jtv> Have people mentioned the "clean this bit up in a trivial branch first" pattern?
<mwhudson> i would like to hear SteveA_'s opinion
<jtv> mwhudson: ...if his internet is working...
<mwhudson> jtv: yeah
<barry> yeah
 * barry tries to end early :)
<barry> anything more?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> anything not on the agenda people want to talk about?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> great, thanks everyone!
<barry> MEETING ENDS
<intellectronica> cheers, barry
<cprov> PriceChild: ok, let's discuss your problem
<PriceChild> So I tried uploading gizmod3.4 and it gave me the error above.
<cprov> PriceChild: there is indeed this paranoid check, to avoid reusing the same version within the same archive
<PriceChild> hehe
<cprov> PriceChild: you can upload a new orig (with the same filename) once it is removed, but you have to bump the package version.
<PriceChild> to ~ppa3 for example?
<rick_h_> mrevell: quick question from the PPA session, is there a method for submitting issues with the build servers? Not really a bug though.
<cprov> PriceChild: exactly
<PriceChild> Thanks cprov, I'll try that now.
<Hobbsee> rick_h_: what kind of issues?
<rick_h_> one time I had a date/time issue with one of the builds and wasn't sure how best to report it
<Hobbsee> like, the fact that they're busy?
<cprov> PriceChild: ok, let me know the result
<rick_h_> so 2 of the three passed, but the amd64 was failing due to date mismatches
<cprov> rick_h_: was it recently ?
<rick_h_> this was a while ago, I retried the build later and it got picked up by a different server and succeeded
<rick_h_> cprov: it was a few weeks ago
<cprov> rick_h_: because this issue seems to be fixed now
<rick_h_> right, but in the future, what's the best place to submit those kinds of issues
<cprov> rick_h_: right, you can retry the build.
<rick_h_> since they're not really a bug
<rick_h_> more of a trouble ticket item
<Hobbsee> rick_h_: usually mention it in here, i think
<rick_h_> ok, figured I'd check that I wasn't missing some better method
<cyberix> I got an email regarding this bug -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xemacs21/+bug/4883
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 4883 in xemacs21 "Info pages installed incorrectly" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<cyberix> Now I'm trying to figure out why
<cyberix> I don't think I have anything to do with the bug.
<cyberix> My user name is "Toni Ruottu"
<cyberix> Can someone help me to figure this out?
<ddaa> What does the footer of the email says?
<cyberix> Never mind :-D
<cyberix> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe, which is a direct subscriber.
<ddaa> Glad to be of service.
<cyberix> I'm still not sure, if it makes any sense to send people like me emails like this
<LaserJock> ddaa: that's a bit weird because that team is not sub'd to that bug
<ubotu> New bug: #172596 in soyuz "cannot upload to ppa when behind a proxy/firewall" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172596
<ddaa> LaserJock: it's probably subbed indirectly through team membership
<LaserJock> ddaa: he is a part of ubuntu-universe-contributors but the team sub'd is ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<LaserJock> ddaa: then shouldn't that show up?
<LaserJock> ddaa: the team in the email is not sub'd to the bug
<ddaa> actually, I cannot figure out why that email would be sent
<ddaa> *shrug*
<Hobbsee> activity log says that team was subscribed.
<PriceChild> cprov, "Accepted: gizmod 3.4-0ubuntu1~ppa3 (source)" :D Thanks so much for your help.
<Hobbsee> but the activity log doesn't appear to be a full record, as it doesn't show it removed again - yet it clearly is.
<ddaa> Hobbsee: thanks for spotting this out
<ddaa> bugactivity sucks
<cprov> PriceChild: yay
<LaserJock> ddaa: funny, I got the email too
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah, he's spammed teh entire revu group with it.
<Hobbsee> *sigh*
<LaserJock> looks like an LP problem
<LaserJock> like the team was unsub'd but it didn't work :-)
<LaserJock> or wait
<LaserJock> that was this morning, I see it
<ubotu> New bug: #172618 in soyuz "Some soyuz pages requires javascript to be enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172618
<kiko> do they?
<ubotu> New bug: #172619 in launchpad "Launchpad does not set a Message-ID header on outgoing emails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172619
<LaserJock> kiko: get my email?
<kiko> yes 
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> kiko: I also sent that list to ubuntu-devel as a followup so we'll see if anything comes of it :-)
<kiko> LaserJock, very cool. thanks a lot for the help
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> kiko: if we could maybe get those first two fixed soonish it'd really help I think
<kiko> one day at a time :)
 * LaserJock watches the pot
<ubotu> New bug: #172621 in soyuz "PPA +builds page doesn't auto-refresh" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172621
<johnaaronrose> Is Gutsy ever going to have 2.6.23 kernel? 
<elmo> johnaaronrose: you want #ubuntu
<jam> Quick question, has anyone seen the little status messages be attached to the wrong bug page?
<jam> I was uploading an attachment to 1 bug
<jam> and then changed tabs to another
<jam> and now the "Attachment foo added to bug" information message
<jam> is shown on the second bug
<jam> which confused me for a while (thinking I accidentally uploaded it to the wrong bug)
<Fujitsu> jam: I suspect that the message will be shown on the first page view after the upload, so you'd have a small window where you could refresh another tab or so and get the message on the wrong one.
<jam> I'm guessing it also can  happen if you do what I do sometimes
<jam> which is hit submit
<jam> and wait till you think it has finished
<jam> and close the window
<jam> since I don't really need to wait 3s for the page to fully refresh
<mpt> jam, that happens occasionally
<mpt> It was a choice between either doing that occasionally, or having session IDs attached to every URL you visit
<mpt> iirc
<mpt> so we chose the former
<lifeless> jam: welcome to race conditions
<lifeless> jam: please file a bug
<lifeless> jam: I warned that this would happen when the status code was written.
<lifeless> mpt: it wasn't a boolean choice.
<lifeless> Fujitsu: ye, your suspicion on how it works is correct
<mpt> lifeless, we could have benefitted from your insight in bug 5412, then :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 5412 in launchpad "LP notification parameters make URLs skanky" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5412 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
<lifeless> mpt: as a trival example, you know the previous URL through referrer in most cases
<lifeless> mpt: so using referrer as a key into the session to decide if to show a message will prevent it showing on the wrong page, unless the user disables referrer.
<lifeless> mpt: you also know the url you are sending them to with the redirect-after-post, so you can use that as a key too
<Flare183> When importing my opengpg key, how do I go about uploading it to a key-server
<ubotu> New bug: #172668 in malone "status messages get attached to the wrong page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172668
<aclark> everyone!
<ajmitch> noone?
<Fujitsu> Flare183: There should be instructions on the wiki, but you need to push to keyserver.ubuntu.com (ie. gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key yourkeyid)
<Fujitsu> Flare183: See https://help.launchpad.net/ImportingYourOpenPGPKey
<Flare183> ok
<lamont> bigjools cprov-out: there was apparently at one time a restriction that: backporting a newer version of package FOO to (say) dapper, meant that future dapper-security releases had to be newer than the version in -backports. (or so I hear...)
<lamont> with LP now driving sources.list for builds, is that still the case?
 * lamont -> kids, will read scrollback when I get hoem
<Fujitsu> lamont: As I mentioned in #ubuntu-devel, I've done a number of security uploads with normal versions, where things have also been backported.
<Balaams_Miracle> I've run into a problem with Rosetta, don't know if it's a known problem, but i've come across a package that (according to LP) has 9 untranslated strings, but filtering for untranslated strings or strings that need review do not show any stings at all.
<Balaams_Miracle> The URL to the package is https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/openoffice.org/+pots/sch-dlg/nl/+translate?batch=10
<lifeless> Balaams_Miracle: I don't remember seeing a bug like that discussed;
<lifeless> Balaams_Miracle: could you file  abug ?
<Balaams_Miracle> I could, but i find it very had to describe the problem in just a few words. That's really a handicap of mine. I just can't be concise
<lifeless> your two line summary is fine
<lifeless> if you're worried about the title, what about 'no strings shown when there are unstranslated strings'
<Balaams_Miracle> It is? Hmmm... Let me try and muster up the courage then.
<Balaams_Miracle> Yeah, sounds like a pretty accurate description. Thanks!
<Fujitsu> I think I saw a reference to a similar bug a couple of days back.
<Fujitsu> Bug #165258, perhaps.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165258 in update-manager "upgrade to gutsy error python 2.5" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165258
<Fujitsu> Er, no.
<Fujitsu> Bug #165218, perhaps.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165218 in rosetta "Empty translations are counted as completed translations" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165218 - Assigned to Carlos PerellÃ³ MarÃ­n (carlos)
<Balaams_Miracle> I'll go and take a look
<Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: That bug looks like just the opposite. The peron who reported 165218 says that untranslated strings are counted as translated. In my case, Rosetta reports that there are untranslated strings, but the filters don't show them.
<Fujitsu> I would be surprised if they were unrelated.
<Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: Was this bug present a week ago?
<Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: I've just taken a look at the page where their problem occurs, but now it looks like the same problem. There are 60 strings in total, Rosetta claims that 60 are untranslated. Their problem is even worse
<Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: On the other hand, your totals add up to 100%.
<Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: I haven't been very active lately, but i don't remember seeing this bug when i was translating the last time (last friday)
<lifeless> file the bug, for sure :)
<Fujitsu> It looks like a different one, so file it, yep.
<Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: I don't understand. How do my totals add up to 100%?
<ubotu> New bug: #172685 in malone "activity log doesn't display unsubscribe events" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172685
<Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: The unstranslated, unchanged and changed values in the graphish thing add up to 100%, whereas for the other bug it is 200%.
<Fujitsu> Urgh, -s
#launchpad 2007-11-29
<Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: You had me curious, so i added up the percentages too. It's not exacly 100% but (according to gcalctool) 99.99%. This looks like bug #104024, with the differece that "need review" also show no translatables.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104024 in rosetta "Untranslated filter shows no strings, but percentage untranslated < 100%" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104024
<poolie> mpt, i'd really really like if it was easier to edit bug tags 
<poolie> like from the edit status dialog-thing
<Fujitsu> poolie: bug #76095, bug #127138
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 76095 in xwpe "xwpe fails to work properly in AMD64" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76095
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127138 in malone "Can't add/remove tags while changing a bug's status" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127138
<Fujitsu> Erm, first one is wrong.
<Fujitsu> Bug #76085
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 76085 in malone "A bug report should be entirely modifiable in the bug page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/76085
<poolie> uh, also i guess we need bug voting ;-)
<Fujitsu> malone-me-too, targetted for 1.2.3 or so, IIRC.
<Fujitsu> Or perhaps vote-system, or bug #149775.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149775 in ubuntu "Adding tags and voting on bug reports" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149775
<ubotu> New bug: #172689 in rosetta "Filter shows no strings when there are untranslated strings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172689
 * mpt hugs Fujitsu
 * Fujitsu hugs mpt back.
<Fujitsu> What did I do this time?
 * Hobbsee waves
 * ajmitch waves at Hobbsee 
 * Fujitsu drops a Launchpad on Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> heya Fujitsu!
 * Hobbsee catches the launchpad, and spins it around like a cube
<Fujitsu> Nooo.
<ajmitch> more shiny spinning cubes...
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Haha.
<Fujitsu> mpt: Oh, was that about the voting/UI references that I gave above?
<mpt> Fujitsu, yes
<Fujitsu> mpt: Ah, that makes more sense.
<ubotu> New bug: #172702 in malone "Bug assignee list searches users of all launchpad projects" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172702
<jefferai> can anyone tell me how I can search for a member of launchpad?
<jefferai> I'm trying to find a specific person on there
<jefferai> their contact page
<Hobbsee> launchpad.net/people and use the search?
<jefferai> see, why is there no link to that page...
<Hobbsee> i have no idea....
<jefferai> Hobbsee: when I see code in launchpad, is that some internal ubuntu copy, or what?
<LaserJock> I've never really understood why there wasn't a link to people/ from the frontpage
<jefferai> I'm specifically looking at this: https://code.launchpad.net/~taglib-developers/taglib/taglib.ext
<LaserJock> jefferai: well that's code from the taglib-developers team on Launchpad
<jefferai> yeah, but how do I know how that syncs up with upstream?
<jefferai> there's also "trunk" and "taglib.ext"
<jefferai> trunk looks to be newer
<LaserJock> hard to say
<LaserJock> it's up to the team members
<poolie> thumper, ping?
<thumper> poolie: pong
<poolie> just wanted to point you to jefferai's question - and how that might be more clear in the ui
<jefferai> like trunk looks like it's upstream trunk
<jefferai> but in that case, is taglib.ext the one packaged with Ubuntu, or trunk?
<jefferai> when are they synced up? 
<jefferai> etc
<LaserJock> jefferai: you'd have to ask the owner
<LaserJock> jefferai: it's not specific to Ubuntu I wouldn't think
<poolie> well, you can see lukas merged from svn about 6 weeks ago
<jefferai> right, I do see that
<poolie>  i agree this is not a packaging branch
<thumper> jefferai: trunk is an imported branch
<thumper> I have been considering badging or somehow otherwise identifying the different branch types
<jefferai> so that is imported from kde svn, then?
<jefferai> and that is then merged into taglib.ext?
<jefferai> taglib.ext sounds like it means "external" i.e. from kde svn, but it doesn't
<thumper> jefferai: https://edge.launchpad.net/taglib/trunk shows that trunk is imported from svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/kdesupport/taglib
<jefferai> ok
<thumper> jefferai: I'll be the first to agree that this is somewhat ackward
<jefferai> whatever edge is
<thumper> jefferai: and there are plans in motion now to make the UI better around import branches
<thumper> jefferai: sorry, edge is running the latest code
<thumper> jefferai: and as a LP developer I get automaticly redirected to use edge
<thumper> jefferai: as to the launchpad beta testers
<jefferai> ah, ok
<LaserJock> who would know about a vcs-import that doesn't seem to be updating?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: File an answer against launchpad-bazaar.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: isn't that file aquestion?
<LaserJock> *a question
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You file bugs in Launchpad Bugs, so therefor you file answers in Launchpad Answers. QED.
<LaserJock> hehe
<Hobbsee> haha
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: when does has that logic ever held? ;-)
<LaserJock> s/does//
 * ajmitch drinks
 * Fujitsu files some translations.
<Zelut> can someone point me to a reference on how to push my project code to code.launchpad.net/projectname?
<Fujitsu> Zelut: You don't push directly to project. You push to a branch.
<LaserJock> https://help.launchpad.net/FeatureHighlights/EasyBranching perhaps
<Fujitsu> Although once you've created a branch, you can set it to be the trunk, and then you can branch/push directly from the project URL.
<Zelut> I basically want to update what I already have here
<Zelut> https://code.launchpad.net/folding
<Fujitsu> Zelut: Right. You want to push to sftp://christer.edwards@bazaar.launchpad.net/~christer.edwards/folding/main
<Zelut> I don't recall the bazaar syntax.  We use cvs at the office so I always forget.
<Fujitsu> Zelut: bzr push someurl
<Fujitsu> Though you'll need to bzr co it first.
<Fujitsu> Er, bzr branch
<Zelut> from within the ~/myproject folder I assume?
<Fujitsu> Is said folder a brach?
<Fujitsu> *branch
<Fujitsu> The link LaserJock gave above is probably a good reference.
<tonyyarusso> Is the build system portion of LP OSS yet?
<Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: No.
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: phooey.
<Fujitsu> The only noticeable part of Launchpad that has been released is storm, and that's not even used in the main branch yet...
<tonyyarusso> That's super-lame, frankly.
<lamont> dear launchpad, is there any way to identify the signer of the source.changes file?
<Fujitsu> lamont: Pipe it through GPG?
<Fujitsu> Query the database with the SQL powers you don't have?
<lamont> heh
<lamont> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/newt/0.52.2-11.1ubuntu1 would be an example
<Fujitsu> Ask Keybuk; MoM does it.
<ubotu> New bug: #172727 in launchpad "People page (/people) is too hard to find" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172727
<lamont> oh, properly munging the changes file would have a significant effect.
<Fujitsu> How are they improperly munged?
<ubotu> New bug: #172729 in launchpad "show target milestone in (some?) bug lists and on the bug page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172729
<lamont> Fujitsu: if I had properly munged the chages file before I uploaded, it would be different..
<lamont> OTOH, I'm pretty sure that changes file looked just like all the other sponsored uploads I've done for debian as well, so ...
<ubotu> New bug: #172735 in launchpad-bazaar "Branch page advises people to join a restricted team" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172735
<SAL123> What is the .changes file required by dput? I have my own deb package and want to build it for more ubuntu releases.
<LaserJock> SAL123: you need a source package
<SAL123> LaserJock: What is the source package? How I can create it?
<LaserJock> which is made up generally of .dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz files
<LaserJock> SAL123: well, if you can't find one from the same source you got the .deb you'll need to make one
<LaserJock> !packagingguide
<ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<LaserJock> ^^ that can help you
<SAL123> Is the pbuilder package required to create my source package?
<LaserJock> no required really
<LaserJock> but suggested
<SAL123> It contains many dependencies and I want to leave my chrooted ubuntu small.
<LaserJock> well, pbuilder actually cuts down on dependencies
<LaserJock> but does take up quite a bit of disk space
<SAL123> LaserJock: PackagingGuide says about pbuilder to create the source package. Any other way? I have my .dsc and orig package build by dephelper tools (my package from debian).
<LaserJock> oh ok
<LaserJock> then you need to install the build depdencies
<LaserJock> or way
<LaserJock> *wait
<LaserJock> you just want to build a source package? or a .deb?
<SAL123> LaserJock: My deb builds fine, just I can't find a source package on my disk.
<SAL123> -rw-r--r-- 1 ondrejj ondrejj    577 Oct 12 19:16 sagator_1.0.0-0beta27.dsc
<SAL123> -rw-r--r-- 1 ondrejj ondrejj 214657 Oct 12 19:15 sagator_1.0.0-0beta27.tar.gz
<SAL123> -rw-r--r-- 1 ondrejj ondrejj 361462 Oct 12 19:16 sagator_1.0.0-0beta27_all.deb
<Fujitsu> Ew, native.
<SAL123> that are my packages build from my source, there is no "patch" required, because it is my own project and it has all included in sources.
<Fujitsu> SAL123: The source package is that .dsc and .tar.gz.
<Fujitsu> Ah...
<Fujitsu> However, you need a .changes. How are you building it?
<SAL123> Fujitsu: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<Fujitsu> SAL123: I recommend that you build with `debuild -S'.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: I want to avoid installing all required dependecies, if it is possible.
<LaserJock> SAL123: debuild -S is what you want
<Fujitsu> SAL123: You should also be test-building, so will need the build-dependencies anyway...
<LaserJock> it's a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage that also does the signing
<SAL123> A lot of X* applications, spell checkers and more packages required py pdebuild. I want to use launchpad to build my packages and free some disk space, not use more of them. :(
<LaserJock> well, it's not very idea to not test your packages at all
<LaserJock> *ideal
<LaserJock> you can save yourself a lot of trouble using pbuilder rather than waiting for a build to fail on Launchpad
<Fujitsu> You should always test the build locally first; PPAs are not a test-building dumping ground.
<LaserJock> SAL123: the dependecies should take all that much disk space
<LaserJock> depending on the package
<Fujitsu> s/should/shouldn't./
<Fujitsu> s/\.//
<LaserJock> yeah
<SAL123> hmm, my package builds well with dpkg-buildpackage
<LaserJock> right
<Fujitsu> Oh, you're using *p*debuild?
<SAL123> builds well on 2 debians, one ubuntu, fedora, suse, gentoo
<LaserJock> ok, well if you're building it already then it shouldn't be a problem right?
<SAL123> all of them (except gentoo) builds automatically in my chroots.
<LaserJock> ok, then that would be at least some for of testing, although not as thorough as pbuilder
<SAL123> Each beta/rc/stable release is built automatically in chroot and put into proper repository on my web. But I am limited with disk space and want to add more supported distributions, for example more ubuntu versions now.
<LaserJock> well, pbuilders are very nice for that
<LaserJock> because it is a compressed chroot environment that stays clean
<SAL123> Is it working to chroot in another chroot?
<LaserJock> in any case, at a minimum if you have a .dsc and .tar.gz you can run debuild -S instead of dpkg-buildpackage and you should get a .changes file
<SAL123> I have no real ubuntu installed, just an chrooted one. :)
<LaserJock> SAL123: you can install it in the chroot
<LaserJock> or in a Debian install if you have one
<SAL123> LaserJock: ok, I will try, there is no other option for me :(
<LaserJock> it would be nice if you didn't have it as a native package (where the debian/ director is a part of the tar.gz) but that's up to you
<SAL123> After unpacking 528MB will be used.     Wrrr.... :(
<LaserJock> SAL123: what is that for?
<SAL123> LaserJock: aptitude install pdebuild
<LaserJock> SAL123: try aptitude -r install pbuilder
<SAL123> LaserJock: Much better, just 4 MB. It will work?
<LaserJock> yep
<SAL123> LaserJock: Thanks. It's an ideal solution for me. :-)
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it'll get bigger
<LaserJock> the compressed chroot will take ~100MB
<LaserJock> and you'll need enough disk space to actually build the thing, but it cleans up when it's done
<LaserJock> and it's fairly easy to have pbuilders for multiple Ubuntu/Debian versions
<LaserJock> so you can have one Ubuntu chroot with multiple pbuilders to build for various releases
<LaserJock> rather than creating several different chroots
<SAL123> LaserJock: I know, similiar application for Fedora is named mock. :)
<LaserJock> ah yes
<LaserJock> we had the guy who made mock come by the other day
<carlos> morning
<LaserJock> well, time for bed
<LaserJock> carlos: hi .. bye
<LaserJock> SAL123: good luck
<carlos> LaserJock: good night!
<SAL123> My package has been uploaded by dput, do I need to request a build?
<SAL123> I can't find it on Ubuntu builds page.
<SAL123> LaserJock: Thank you. :)
<LaserJock> SAL123: make sure to read through the PPA Quick Start guide
<LaserJock> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
 * LaserJock out
<SAL123> LaserJock: already read, it says only that If the build fails, you will receive a failure notification. 
<SAL123> The quickstart is very quick, usable just for experienced packagers.
<oly-> hi, i have my project hosted on launchpad, im looking ito getting it translated and noticed launchpad has a translation feature, but it wants a .pol file what are these and where can i find information about how to create them ?
<SAL123> The icomming directory in dput.cf must always end with "ubuntu"?
<ubotu> New bug: #172747 in soyuz "copy-package.py claims package isn't in -proposed when a -backports version exists" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172747
<soren> SAL123: For PPA's, yes.
<mrevell> morning
<carlos> oly-: hi
<carlos> oly-: a .pot file is the file format used by gettext library to translate applications
<carlos> there are some tools to convert from other file formats into .pot files so you can use Launchpad for translations
<SAL123> soren: And what if I missed and sent my package with wrong directory?
<soren> SAL123: Probably nothing.
<oly-> okay, carlos thxs will look into gettext library, 
<carlos> oly-: what application are we talking about?
<oly-> a python application, basically web managment tool
<oly-> its all in english at moment, never tried to add support for translations in the passed so looking into it
<SAL123> soren: Right. It's my problem. What now? I can't upload it again, because it says that it is already uploaded.
<soren> SAL123: dput -f ppa asdfasdfasdf.changes
<soren> SAL123:      ^^
<SAL123> soren: thanks
<SAL123> What must be in my .dput.cf in []? The user name or the package name? Must be followed by -ppa?
<doko> how can I add a hosted branch for a team in LP?
<doko> "You cannot assign a +junk branch to a team. Create a project first."
<carlos> oly-: python documentation documents how to use gettext
<oly-> yeah found that, also found an example tutorial to look at
<oly-> because the python documentation did not seem that clear to me
<carlos> oly-: ok
<oly-> but thxs not heard of gettext till now :)
<carlos> oly-: you are welcome :-)
<ubotu> New bug: #172773 in launchpad "ProductReleaseFile doesn't have an owner column" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172773
<SAL123> Step 4: Launchpad will give you an accepted or rejected upload notification. How it will give me this?
<Fujitsu> SAL123: Email
<SAL123> Fujitsu: And if there is no one? What's wrong?
<Fujitsu> SAL123: It likely means you've signed it with a key that Launchpad doesn't know about, or no key at all.
<Fujitsu> SAL123: Did you find the correct upload location in the PPAQuickStart?
<SAL123> Fujitsu: incomming = ~ondrejj/ubuntu/      <- do you mean this?
<SAL123> Fujitsu: I don't know, what to replace in example .dput.cf and what to leave unchanged.
<Fujitsu> SAL123: Incoming should be spelt with a single m, but that looks to be otherwise correct.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: i have proper one in my config, just typo when copying :)
<SAL123> Fujitsu: my complete config looks like this: http://pastebin.com/d3eaadd49
<Fujitsu> SAL123: That looks sane.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: And what now? dput says at end: "Successfully uploaded packages."
<Fujitsu> SAL123: When did you upload it?
<SAL123> Fujitsu: But nothing found on: https://launchpad.net/~ondrejj/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<SAL123> Fujitsu: many times, first aprox. hald hour ago.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: half hour ago
<Fujitsu> SAL123: Are you sure the .changes is signed properly?
<Fujitsu> If you view it, does it have a signature visible?
<SAL123> Fujitsu: yes, there is a signature. IMHO there is no other key in my chrooted ubuntu.
<SAL123> gpg: Signature made Å tÂ 29.Â novemberÂ 2007,Â 12:02:11Â CET using DSA key ID 6B822FE7
<SAL123> gpg: Good signature from "Jan ONDREJ (SAGATOR) <ondrejj@salstar.sk>"
<Fujitsu> SAL123: OK, that looks fine...
<cprov> morning, folks
<Fujitsu> Hey cprov.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: Any ideas, what to do?
<Fujitsu> SAL123: I'm trying something, I'll report back in a bit more than a minute.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: thanks, I am going to lunch :)
<Fujitsu> SAL123: Are you sure you're uploading the correct .changes, and the rejected mail isn't being caught by a spam filter somewhere?
<daub> how can i enable the bug report for a project?
<Fujitsu> daub: Go into the `Change Details'
<Fujitsu> ... page of the project, and scroll down to around the middle.
<Fujitsu> There should be a selector for the bug tracker there; select Launchpad in it.
<daub> ok, i'm in overview->change details. but i don't see a selector
<Fujitsu> daub: Around the middle, `Bugs are tracked:'
<Fujitsu> There are three option buttons with a drop-down list.
<daub> https://launchpad.net/~daub/+edit
<daub> is the the right url?
<Fujitsu> daub: Ah, that's the page for your person.
<Fujitsu> You can't file bugs on a person...
<daub> :)
<Fujitsu> You're looking for /forecastgnome/edit+?
<Fujitsu> Er, +edit
<ubotu> New bug: #172780 in rosetta "translated strings counts translations that may not be translated in Launchpad anymore" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172780
<Fujitsu> Yay, third bug like that I've seen in 24 hours...
<daub> Fujitsu: now i found it. thanks
<Fujitsu> daub: Great.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: I think it is the correct changes file.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: There is only one in my chroot.
<SAL123> Fujitsu: I have my own server and I can't find email with text "launchpad.net" in my spambox.
<Fujitsu> cprov: Are you able to quickly look at any upload logs for ~ondrejj and see what is happening?
<Fujitsu> It is signed with the correct key.
<cprov> Fujitsu: PPA or primary ?
<SAL123> cprov: primary
<SAL123> cprov: oops
<SAL123> cprov: ppa :)
<cprov> ta
<SAL123> cprov: sorry :)
<Fujitsu> cprov: PPA.
 * Fujitsu is too late.
<cprov> Fujitsu: Subject: dvd95_1.3p0-0ubuntu1_source.changes rejected -> Signer has no upload rights to this PPA ?
<SAL123> cprov: not, it's not mine
<Fujitsu> cprov: That was me testing that it was actually accepting uploads, sorry.
<Fujitsu> s/accepting/processing/
<cprov> I see
<cprov> Fujitsu: SAL123 -> Signing key B32D056EF40213C64B47C43B08AA50066B822FE7 not registered in launchpad.
<Fujitsu> cprov: That key is! Or maybe we have a collision..
<Fujitsu> 'twas the first thing I checked, though the fingerprint could be different.
<SAL123> My fist upload has been uploaded without proper registration.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<cprov> SAL123: could you try again now ?
<Fujitsu> Preferably in the next 50 seconds.
<SAL123> cprov: sure, done
<cprov> thx
<cprov> Jan ONDREJ (SAL) <ondrejj(at)salstar.sk>: no @ found in email address part.
<Fujitsu> Hahaha.
<SAL123> :-)
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't it then email the signer at their default email address?
<cprov> Fujitsu: possibly, first time I've seen this error
<SAL123> Which email? In key or in package?
 * Hobbsee waves
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
<cprov> Fujitsu: debuild and/or dput should scream before. Does dak support this ?
<SAL123> There is only a Maintainer: tag in .dst and .changes file with (at) string. I can't find other.
<Fujitsu> cprov: That's a good question. I haven't looked at much of dak.
<Fujitsu> cprov: It's fine to fail on it, but it should at least email the signer, as it knows a contact address from the key.
 * SAL123 is trying to upload a modified package with maintainer without (at).
<Fujitsu> Black-holing uploads is a bad idea unless there is no alternative.
<elmo> dak will reject that
<elmo> Fujitsu: that's not necessarily a good idea
<Fujitsu> elmo: Why not?
<elmo> Fujitsu: e.g. I could take some anti-ubuntu debian's persons uploads and feed them to PPA.  soyuz certainly shouldn't mail him/her just because they signed the upload
<Fujitsu> elmo: That's true, but there are much worse things that can be done like that. They'll get accepted emails otherwise.
<elmo> no, they won't get accepted emails
<elmo> because the upload has to be targeted for ubuntu/ppa to get accepted
<Fujitsu> elmo: I can upload a package from the primary archive to my PPA using the same .changes.
<elmo> the primary _Ubuntu_ archive
<elmo> and that's still a bug
<Fujitsu> Right.
<elmo> which is getting fixed, AFAIK
<Fujitsu> You have a point.
<Fujitsu> elmo: But I can upload something signed by me to an arbitrary person's PPA (indeed, I did that just before to test), and it will give me a rejected mail.
<Fujitsu> I can presumably do that with lots of DD's packages too.
<Fujitsu> And generally spam the hell out of everybody.
 * Hobbsee wonders waht the discussion is on
<elmo> Fujitsu: with what as the target suite?
<Fujitsu> elmo: hardy.
<Hobbsee> oh, mailing the person on a reject.  right
 * Fujitsu tries to upload something targetted at sid to PPA.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: an anti-debian person wouldn't upload to hardy.
<Hobbsee> er, anti-ubuntu person wouldn't target stuff to hardy
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, but I think it'll still reject them... Unknown suite, or so.
<Hobbsee> this seems to be an argument about why we should, or should not have public signed changes files, then.
<elmo> not really
<elmo> I'm just saying with the current passive reject stuff, who it mails has to be very very carefuly thought through with maliciousness in mind
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It is specifically an argument over whether this corner case shouldn't be emailed.
<elmo> IIRC, cprov was looking at changing uploads to something that would allow for active/real time feedback and avoid almost all of this
<Fujitsu> There is more malicious stuff that can be done with PPAs than emailing signers because they used incorrect email syntax.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and far more efficient ways of spamming big groups of people through lauchpad, too
<elmo> Fujitsu: dude, you're arguing for doing something bad, because there are existing bugs in this area
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: This is true.
<elmo> Hobbsee: in terms of Debian/Ubuntu relations, using Launchpad to spam Debian folks is about as efficently destructive as it gets
<Hobbsee> elmo: agreed.  
<Hobbsee> elmo: i was thinking globally over LP, but i see your point.  i now also see what your corner case actually *is*.
<Fujitsu> elmo: You are correct on both counts.
<Fujitsu> elmo: Is there a better way to notify people, though?
<Fujitsu> Wait, why would an anti-Ubuntu person have their key registered in LP anyway?
<elmo> Fujitsu: well, if we stopped using ftp, and moved to something which gave more immediate feedback - directly to the person doing the upload, that would avoid this entire class of problems
<Fujitsu> If they thought it was that evil..
<cprov> Fujitsu: not on a anonymous ftp server.
<Fujitsu> That's true
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: to put crap on the bug reports and specs, etc, etc, etc.
<Fujitsu> I wouldn't have imagined Soyuz would be planning to diverge from the norm so much, but that is a good thing.
<SAL123> My bulid request has been accepted. When it will be displayed on: https://launchpad.net/~ondrejj/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all   ?
<Fujitsu> SAL123: Within about 10 minutes, I believe, but cprov will be able to tell you for sure.
<cprov> SAL123: 30 minutes in average.
<Fujitsu> cprov: Is queue-builder still taking ages, or is there another thing that creates the build records?
<SAL123> There is no "waiting build" status on a page? When displaying "All states" this does not display my job after accepting immediatelly in a waiting state?
<Fujitsu> SAL123: Build records are not created immediately upon upload.
<cprov> Fujitsu: exactly, not yet.
<Fujitsu> cprov: It would be a lot less confusing to have the incoming processor create them, I think. Is that on the roadmap?
<cprov> Fujitsu: yes, 1.1.12
<Fujitsu> Ah, good.
 * Fujitsu wonders if we can steal usernames that appear to have not been used for anything (perhaps only ShipIt)
<kiko> Fujitsu, you can, yes.
<Fujitsu> kiko: Can I please transform into william, then? They control @ubuntu.com emails address, so it'd be nice to have a better one.
<kiko> Fujitsu, what is it today?
<Fujitsu> kiko: fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Staying for a while this time?
<Hobbsee> grrr
 * Fujitsu finds the uiv2-inline-navigation spec to look counterproductive.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: if my X doesn't crash a third time in ~5 mins, yes.
<kiko> Fujitsu, you know, it is going to be much harder to find you on launchpad if you use fujitsu as your IRC nick though
<Fujitsu> kiko: That's true. I was planning to change my IRC presence to something else (say, wgrant) at some point, but never got around to it.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you're not a canonical employee.  that only happens for them :P
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: tepsipakki is lost, tseng is, soon to be me too!
<kiko> Fujitsu, if you want we can change everything at once and be consistent :)
<Fujitsu> kiko: Perhaps. I might become wgrant across the board then, which I can probably do without duck intervention.
<kiko> Fujitsu, ok. think it over and let me know; I'm happy to give you william as you are a most valued member, but I don't want to leave things more confusing than they are :)
 * Fujitsu probably shouldn't be polluting namespaces with such common names, either.
<kiko> we could blacklist william. that'd be most evil. :)
<Hobbsee> incomming soyuz bug.
 * Hobbsee has pondered taking over sarah.
<ubotu> New bug: #172798 in soyuz "Builddmaster leaves buildlogs behind in /tmp" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172798
<daub> daub can i upload a package to the ppa without creating a source package?
<daub> because my project is python based
<Fujitsu> daub: No. Binary packages must be built from source inside Launchpad; manual binary uploads will be rejected.
<daub> ok
<lamont> Hobbsee: what if sarah doesn't want to be taken over?
<Fujitsu> lamont: ... then she'll get attacked with a certain stick. Duh.
<lamont> lol
<Hobbsee> lamont: oh...there really is a sarah now.  there wasnt' before.
<lamont> the one I'm thinking of has existed for 15 years or so. :-)
<lamont> but I realize now that you just want to take over a _nick_.  not some other corpus.
<lamont> my bad
<Hobbsee> lamont: no, i'll take over every sarah on earth, i think :)
<Fujitsu> Taking over Nicks and Sarahs? There go my two siblings.
<ubotu> New bug: #160683 in ubuntu "vmware-server: Package requests recursive update (dup-of: 172275)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160683
<ubotu> New bug: #164277 in vmware-server (partner) "vmware-server upgrade problem (dup-of: 172275)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164277
<kiko> t-10
 * Hobbsee wonders when the ext user meeting is
<Hobbsee> er, next
<kiko> t-1
 * kiko winks at BjornT 
<BjornT> welcome to this weeks Launchpad developers' meeting
<BjornT> we'll talk about Launchpad development for the next 45 minutes
<ddaa> me
<BjornT> == Agenda ==
<BjornT> * Roll call * Agenda * Next meeting * Actions from last meeting * Oops report (Matsubara) * Critical Bugs (Rinchen) * Bug tags * Operations report (mthaddon) * DBA report (stub) * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<BjornT> ---- * Death to `[trivial]` (SteveA) * Clear up old work-in-progress branches (mwhudson)
<BjornT> ---- * Blockers
<mwhudson> me
<BjornT> who's here?
<barry_> me
<flacoste> me
<gmb> me
<allenap> me
<sinzui> me
<ddaa> me
<stub> me
<salgado> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<carlos> me
<adeuring> me
<bac> me
<jtv> me
<kiko> me
<schwuk> me
<mrevell> me
<jtv> Apology: Danilo is at a conference
<BjornT> jamesh, Rinchen, matsubara, jsk send their apologies
<BjornT> SteveA_ might be a bit late
<BjornT> * Next meeting
<BjornT> will anyone not be able to attend next week?
<stub> Assuming my leave is (finally) approved, me
<kiko> I'll be here
<mrevell> I'll be sprinting along with mpt, matsubara, mthaddon and Rinchen, but I assume we'll be at the meeting
<jamesh> BjornT: I think that apology is old for me.  Didn't realise it was there
<carlos> I'm on leave
<carlos> until next year...
<SteveA_> BjornT: me
<jtv> jamesh: a standing apology, cool idea.
<BjornT> ok, that should be fine. next meeting will be 2007-12-06 at 1400 UTC
<BjornT> * Actions from last meeting
<BjornT> there doesn't seem to a log from last meeting, so i don't know if there were any actions. anyone remember?
<SteveA_> BjornT: I will be on vacation next week
<BjornT> SteveA_: ah, i thought wanted to raise your present. who will chair the meeting next week?
<SteveA_> BjornT: would you like to do it again?
<BjornT> SteveA: sure
<BjornT> * Oops report (Matsubara)
<BjornT> matsubara isn't here. did he delegate the oops report to anyone?
<salgado> First congratulations to the Translations guys for nailing down bug 30602. The new top timeout contender is bug 50617, which intellectronica is already taking care of.
<salgado> BjornT: Rinchen asked me to keep an eye on +filebug timeouts. We had five timeouts on +filebug yesterday: OOPS-697C31, OOPS-697C318, OOPS-697E26, OOPS-697C1706, OOPS-697D1789. Can you investigate and check if they're regressions of bug 86361?
<salgado> That's all for today.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30602 - Assigned to Jeroen T. Vermeulen (jtv)
<BUGabundo> hay
<BUGabundo> I'm on edge
<BUGabundo> and something really strange is going on
<ubotu> Bug 50617 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/50617 is private
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 86361 in malone "Search for duplicate and similar bugs on +filebug sometimes timeout" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86361 - Assigned to Francis J. Lacoste (flacoste)
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/697C31
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/697C318
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/697E26
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/697C1706
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/697D1789
<BUGabundo> there's no text box to insert the package for bug submits!
<salgado> yep, that's his report, BjornT 
<BUGabundo> mdz: hya
<kiko> BUGabundo, please /msg me, we're mid-meeting.
<BjornT> ok, i'll look at the +filebug timeouts later
<BjornT> * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<mrevell> Hi
<mrevell> I'm standing if for Rinchen this week
<mrevell> as he's away.
<mrevell> Joey sent me an email with two bugs to look at. My email provider is down at the moment, so I don't have the email to hand. However, carlos tells me that he's just commited a fix for bug n #165218
<mrevell> and cprov I see you have a private critical bug. Can you tell me what the status is, please for bug 157552?
<ubotu> Bug 157552 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/157552 is private
<cprov> shh ...
<cprov> me
<mrevell> cprov: /msg me if necessary
<cprov> mrevell: k, continue
<mrevell> Does anyone else have a message they want me to pass to Rinchen regarding critical bugs?
<mrevell> 5
<mrevell> 4
<mrevell> 3
<mrevell> 2
<mrevell> 1
<Hobbsee> mrevell: fix them all :)
<mrevell> Thanks BjornT
<BjornT> * Bug tags
<SteveA> cprov: would you update the bug report on 157552 to give an idea of the current situation?
<carlos> Hobbsee: ;-)
<cprov> SteveA: will do, julian has 90% of the code done
<Hobbsee> carlos: oh, and have it done by 3 weeks ago :)
<BjornT> there are three tags proposed: bugtag, hwdb, and feeds
<bigjools> I'm here, sorry I'm late
<BjornT> i think we discussed these tags last week. has anything changed since then?
<intellectronica> i'm also here, b.t.w - only missed the first few minutes
<SteveA> well
<SteveA> the link against bugtag now returns no bugs
<SteveA> because it goes to bugtags
<kiko> right
<SteveA> but there are many bugs tagged with 'bugtag'
<SteveA> which is what we agreed
<kiko> we fixed
<kiko> them
<SteveA> so this tag can now become official on that page
<kiko> Rinchen updated all of them manually
<kiko> very good
<kiko> SteveA, about hwdb, were you against it?
<BjornT> so, is 'bugtag' approved?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> BjornT: yes
<SteveA> kiko: I'm not totally against it.  More like -0 when there's only one bug that seems to apply
<SteveA> I wonder also if it should be a project
<kiko> SteveA, but there will be more bugs as the feature moves on.
<kiko> it might be a separate project.. it sort of depends.
<kiko> there are more bugs actually I believe
<kiko> pity abel is on vac
<kiko> schwuk?
<adeuring> I'm here :)
<SteveA> hi abel!
<adeuring> hi SteveA
<SteveA> I'm thinking the hwdb should be a project, and the hwdb-client should be a project
<schwuk> kiko: I believe that the consensus last week was that there weren't enough bugs to justify the tag being official yet, but we wanted your input
<SteveA> I don't feel very strongly on it though
<kiko> SteveA, the client is a project indeed.
<adeuring> Regrading the tag, I think too we can define it, when we need it
<kiko> the backend is.. possibly best modeled as a project
<kiko> okay
<kiko> thanks guys
<kiko> i'll update the page
<schwuk> SteveA: hwdb-client actually exists as as separate project already - hwtest
<SteveA> thanks \sh 
<BjornT> and what about 'feeds'? it has 14 examples
<SteveA> thanks schwuk 
<SteveA> I think we need a tag for feeds.  Should it be called 'feeds' or 'feed' ?
 * barry_ thinks feeds
<BjornT> considering we renamed 'bugtags' to 'bugtag', maybe we should be consistent and call it 'feed'
<mrevell> "feed" would sound odd
<schwuk> BjornT: except that feeds are rarely referred to in the singular
<bac> i prefer "feeds"
<kiko> feeds
<kiko> I think it should have been bugtags
<SteveA> schwuk: "a line feed" ?   "a data feed"
<kiko> but I don't care enough
<schwuk> SteveA: with regard to RSS/Atom/XML feeds
 * radix has an RSS feed.
<BjornT> schwuk: well, the same applies for bugtag. you usally talk about 'tags'
<schwuk> BjornT: so I agree with kiko
<BjornT> well, me too actually
<kiko> it should have been bugtags
<kiko> but anyway
<SteveA> let's go with 'feeds'
<schwuk> radix: you may have one, but LP has multiple feeds
<BjornT> so, let's approve 'feeds' then? we can consider renaming 'bugtags' later
<BjornT> ok
<kiko> yes
<kiko> FINE
<BjornT> * Operations report (mthaddon)
<SteveA> I think 'feed' implies it's about an individual feed, and feeds says to me it's about the infrastructure
<kiko> right
<kiko> agred
<SteveA> which also suggests 'bugtags' :-)
<BjornT> mthaddon doesn't seem to be here
<BjornT> anyone has his report?
<SteveA> which would mean I was rooting for the wrong side a couple of weeks ago, but anyway ... ;-)
<BjornT> ok, moving on. i'll ask mthaddon to send his report to the list
<BjornT> * DBA report (stub)
<stub> All postgres instances are now running 8.2.5. The fixes in 8.2.4 and 8.2.5 did have a significant impact on some of our queries and things are now running nicer.
<stub> I would like to know *right now* if we can reboot carbon for some fs tweaks
<SteveA> BjornT: please ask him to include in his report the current state of bug 157552 from his side
<ubotu> Bug 157552 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/157552 is private
<stub> Nothing else to report.
<jtv> stub: we're running a test.
<BjornT> SteveA: ok
<stub> jtv: Please let elmo know when you are done then.
<jtv> stub: ack
<SteveA> BjornT: or better yet, leave a comment on the bug
<jtv> stub: it'll be a while
<SteveA> stub: I don't believe we're running any demos for people on there just now.
<sinzui> could the DB upgrade be related the timeouts that bugs is experiencing?
<kiko> 253 timeouts. wow!
<stub> More timeouts than usual, or are they just noticeable now Rosetta isn't hogging the reports?
<BjornT> i don't think there are more timeouts than usual. let's look at that later.
<stub> Unlikely but possible. I don't think we will be going back though unless we have a dataloss or security type situation though so we need to deal anyway.
<BjornT> * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<BjornT> mrevell: are you handling this as well?
<kiko> I think there are much less timeouts in general
<stub> We have a *gasp* metric for this don't we?
<mrevell> BjornT: I don't have anything for sysadmin requests, no.
<mrevell> However
<SteveA> kiko: 253 time-outs total -- and not so many from bugs.  am I looking at the right stats?
<kiko> stub, ha ha
<mrevell> does anyone have something they'd like Joey's help in getting actioned?
<kiko> SteveA, that's the right stats. 253 total. I was positively impressed
<mrevell> Anyone have an RT request number they want Joey's help with?
<kiko> 5 4 3 2 1 
<BjornT> ok, let's move on
<BjornT> * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mrevell> Me again :)
<mrevell> Looking at the Answers requests for Launchpad, there are two recurring questions:
<mrevell>  "Please delete xxx from my PPA" and "Please rename project xxx".
<mrevell>  We have plans to allow deleting packages from PPAs.
<mrevell>  Do we have plans to allow project owners to rename their projects without involving a Launchpad admin?
<kiko> not right now
<ddaa> We used to have, Mark insisted that we don't.
<mrevell> There's actually a third question that comes up a bit - regarding project deletion, but I realise that's a bigger deal.
<mrevell> Okay, that pretty much answers it, thanks.
<BjornT> mrevell: done?
<kiko> well
<kiko> I think we can reconsider project renames
<kiko> and definitely deletion 
<cprov> mrevell: yes, PPA deletion UI is planned for 1.2.1
<kiko> but this work has not been scheduled yet
<stub> We need to dig up or remember the use cases for us disabling it. There was a reason at the time, I'm sure, but there is a good chance it is no longer valid.
<mrevell> We're not getting hundreds of requests, obviously but I wanted to see if it was something we could reconsider.
<BjornT> ok, we don't have time to discuss this now, so let's have that discussion elsewhere, and move on
<BjornT> * Clear up old work-in-progress branches (mwhudson)
<mrevell> thanks guys
 * mwhudson runs away, ddaa will take this
<ddaa> After the lean training at UDS
<ddaa> the code team decided to look for the status of all work-in-progress branches
<ddaa> and clean up those that will never land
<ddaa> we found this was a worthwhile exercise
<ddaa> and encourage other teams to do the same
<ddaa> I think that's it.
<BjornT> ddaa: might consider sending a mail to the list about it
<BjornT> * Death to `[trivial]` (SteveA)
<BjornT> SteveA: 
<SteveA> thanks BjornT 
<SteveA> the review team discussed removing our use of the [trivial] tag to land code without review
<ubotu> New bug: #172816 in launchpad "launchpad focus browser on summary and "hides" package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172816
<SteveA> now that we have processes that allow more timely reviews
<SteveA> there should be much less overhead in getting small branches reviewed
<SteveA> and the bzr project has had success with requiring a review for all landings, however trivial
<kiko> wow.
<kiko> this is a big step!
<SteveA> so, I propose we remove the [trivial] tag for 2 months, and see what happens
<SteveA> we need to introduce a different tag
 * ddaa raises hand
<SteveA> to allow, for example, stub
<SteveA> and mthaddon
<flacoste> we have rs=
<kiko> they could use rs=
<SteveA> to do procedural things that need doing via PQM
<sinzui> sa=
<stub> I was thinking db landings could go past the review team to see what happens. Might be confusion, might be helpful.
<SteveA> so I propose we add [rollout] or something like that, for such tags
<kiko> SteveA, I think stub's more on the right track
<SteveA> sure, I'm in favour of keeping it consistent with no special cases
<stub> [rollout] useful for ops stuff though - fixing configs and whatnot.
<SteveA> if that's workable
<barry_> iirc, mthaddon had no problem w/using existing procedures (sans trivial) for doing what he needs to do
<SteveA> we can review use of [trivial] at the end of january
<BjornT> so, do we remove the [trivial] tag, or does it need more discussion? time is running out, so we won't have time to discuss it in this meeting.
<SteveA> and see how the experiment went
<elmo> barry: (actually, I'm pretty sure he asked for a [sysadmin])
<SteveA> BjornT: I will write a concrete proposal to the list
<barry_> elmo, he did, but in a follow up agreed that it's probably not necessary
<BjornT> ok, let's move on then
<BjornT> * Blockers
<SteveA> BjornT: I'd like everyone to note that [trivial] will be turned off next month
<ddaa> Code: not blocked
 * barry_ can dig up the email if necessary (or just ask mthaddon again ;)
<SteveA> SC: not blocked
<BjornT> Bugs Team: no
<flacoste> Foundations Team: not blocked
<bigjools> Soyuz Team: Not blocked
<flacoste> elmo: do you time today to do this meeting with barry?
<jtv> Translations team: not blocked
<mrevell> Release team not blocked
<bac> Commercialization team: not blocked
<BjornT> adeuring, schwuk: hwdb?
<adeuring> HWDB team: not blocked
<BjornT> is that everyone?
<BjornT> ok, meeting ended
<mrevell> thanks BjornT, good job :)
<barry_> thanks BjornT !
<kiko> thanks guys!
 * kiko waves
 * carlos too
<SteveA> thank you BjornT !
<SteveA> great meeting chairing.
<ubotu> New bug: #172825 in malone "Bug status import should happen outside transaction blogs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172825
<dneary> Hi
<dneary> When I download .po files from launchpad, I get some translations with "#-#-#-#-#  -  (PACKAGE VERSION)  #-#-#-#-#" lines in the middle
<dneary> This ruins the translation presentation when I pull these down to my program and run po2ts - any idea why they're there?
<dneary> And how to avoid them?
<carlos> dneary: they come from a merge of two po files, that comes from gettext tools, not from Launchpad
<carlos> dneary: is a way to denote that the merge had a conflict so the user needs to resolve it manually
<dneary> carlos: Thanks
<dneary> So I need to tell some people off, or could this happen when uploading a .po into launchpad?
<carlos> we don't do that kind of merge
<carlos> so it's something your translators introduced
<carlos> it may stay in Launchpad as a suggestion
<carlos> but just like any other bad translation
<dneary> Is there any way to search for all of these?
<dneary> Across all languages?
<dneary> And stamp them out?
<dneary> It's pretty widespread in the wengophone translations - I have 5 affected translations
<bud3030> Were can i get info on my gpg
<bud3030> I get this when I try to get a new gpg Invalid character
<intellectronica> bud3030: what do you mean by "try to get a new gpg"?
<intellectronica> bud3030: are you trying to upload a new gpg public key into launchpad?
<Hobbsee> probably tryign to create a new gpg key
<bud3030> yes what is going on I change the the wiki namen to my real name
<bud3030> now it ask for a new gpg to activate ppa
<bud3030> Hobbsee thank for the reply
<intellectronica> bud3030: so, you take your public key and import it into launchpad by going to https://edge.launchpad.net/~bud3030/+editpgpkeys
<bud3030> Hobbsee: it is tell me to but name prase and email
<Hobbsee> bud3030: are you trying to use a strange character that isnt on a default english keyboard, by any chance?
<Hobbsee> like, something you have to use the compose key for?
<bud3030> no 
<Hobbsee> what characters are you typing in?
<bud3030> at first I typeed it in double quots the with out
<bud3030> the qutos
<Hobbsee> you shouldn't need to use quotes with it at all
<intellectronica> bud3030: try a program called "seahorse", which is a nice GUI to GPG. you may find it easier
<bud3030> I all so deleted my ssh and old email
<bud3030> intellectronica : I have seahorese install I will give it a try
<bud3030> hobbsee: thanks for help also intellectronica
<intellectronica> bud3030: np
<doko> how long does it take until a branch gets published on launchpad?
<bbartek> Hi all
<kiko> afternoon
<bbartek> I just received my ubuntu membership on #ubuntu-members
<kiko> well.. congratulations!
<bbartek> is it possible to get an other launchpad name
<bbartek> thank you kiko
<bbartek> https://launchpad.net/~bart
<kiko> it might be possible. 
<bbartek> is from somebody who is not active
<bbartek> https://launchpad.net/~broeckx
<kiko> well
<bbartek> this is the one i have wright now
<kiko> isn't it better to use bbartek?
<bbartek> Yes, i can use that one to but it's a short name
<bbartek> my real name
<kiko> well, it's also going to make it harder to identify you
<bbartek> and from someone who probably doesn't even use ubuntu anymore
<kiko> i.e. you make an administrative request and I can't figure out who you are
<kiko> or I can't guess who to assign the bug to
<kiko> it's always much (much!) better to have a uniquish name
<kiko> even if it's cooler to have bart or fred or jane :)
<bbartek> I do marketing and promotional activities 
<bbartek> I'm not so active on launchpad
<bbartek> i don't file bugs
<bbartek> well a few
<bbartek> bbartek is also poosible if it's better for you
<kiko> well, I'm fine either way. that was just my advice as someone who deals with this sort of thing every day. :)
<bbartek> if it's possible and not to much work i prefer bart
<bbartek> but i will settle for bbartek to
<bbartek> bart@ubuntu.com is cooler ;) 
<kiko> bbartek, okay, bart is freed now. 
<bbartek> kiko: thx
<kiko> you can change your name in your +edit page
<bbartek> ok i'll do it now
<bbartek> thanks a lot
<bbartek> done :)
<cyberix> How am I supposed to credit translators?
<kiko> cyberix, I'm not sure how you mean credit.
<kiko> do you mean the translator-credits string?
<cyberix> I collected latest po-files from Launchpad and I'm planning to include them in my upstream package.
<cyberix> I'm talking about copyright
<cyberix> The translators have copyright in their translations
<cyberix> But I don't know who the translators are.
<LaserJock> carlos: ping
<lifeless> kiko: ping
<kiko> lifeless!
<lifeless> why was debian-bzr merged into registry? debian-bzr is the debian bzr packaging team
<lifeless> (oh, and how are you :))
<jelmer> lifeless: no, debian-bazaar is the debian bzr packaging team
<jelmer> debian-bzr is a team I accidently created because I didn't know about debian-bazaar
<lifeless> jelmer: ahha.
<lifeless> kiko: so it sounds like I'm confused; is merging to registry how we delete teams ?
<kiko> lifeless, yes.
<kiko> well, it's how /I/ delete teams
<kiko> nobody else does!
<lifeless> kiko: the message to the user is very confusing
<kiko> lifeless, there are worse things in life; I prefer admins to clear out membership first, but jelmer gets special treatment
<kiko> lifeless, mpt has kept the bug on doing it properly open
<lifeless> kiko: I see; its cool then.
<lifeless> blame jelmer for me squawking
<lifeless> jelmer: so debian-bazaar has just you in it
<jelmer> huh
<jelmer> bleh, time to quit drinking or something.. had this happen before
 * jelmer filed two bugs about "bzr selftest -j", within a couple of months
<jelmer> lifeless, kiko: Sorry for the trouble
<kiko> nah
<lifeless> jelmer: so what team am I meant to be in ?
<jelmer> debian-bazaar - I'll add everybody to debian-bazaar
<carlos> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> carlos: was just talking to the gcompris author
<carlos> LaserJock: indeed, the bug is fixed... let me retry it...
<LaserJock> carlos: he says that the translations people are getting are incomplete, but do exist
<LaserJock> I don't quite get why there should be any translations if there wasn't a .pot
<carlos> hmm, no, the template was already imported (sorry I'm so busy I even forgot I already did it...)
<carlos> LaserJock: we copy translations from one release to the other
<carlos> LaserJock: so it would be for Feisty
<LaserJock> he said he didn't think it was Feisty
<LaserJock> so either it was maybe messed up in Feisty too
<LaserJock> or something else
<carlos> that's easy to check...
<LaserJock> but my brain is hurting over trying to figure out this translations stuff :-)
<carlos> indeed, Feisty was broken too
<carlos> LaserJock: last update was 2006-05-11 21:00:08.796834+00:00
<carlos> LaserJock: I think last update we got was from Dapper...
<LaserJock> oh ...
<LaserJock> ok, so to be clear, we're shipping the Dapper translations in Edgy, Feisty, and Gutsy?
<ubotu> New bug: #172907 in launchpad "Deleting an email address that's used in subscriptions cases referential integrity error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172907
<LaserJock> carlos: am I correct? ^^
<carlos> LaserJock: yes, although each one will have some translation updates
<carlos> LaserJock: the problem is that message changes to the English string will be missing
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> so that would account for the weird incomplete translations people are complaining about
<LaserJock> since there have been new upstream releases, etc. since Dapper
<LaserJock> carlos: ok, now with the new .pot I sent you will the upstream translations be given preference over what is in LP?
<carlos> right
<LaserJock> carlos: hmm, can I give you a Feisty .pot as well?
<LaserJock> if we've got bad translations back to Edgy I'm thinking some Feisty users may benefit as well
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<carlos> LaserJock: please, send it to rosetta@launchpad.net I'm leaving right now for some days
<carlos> LaserJock: so danilo or jtv do the upload
<LaserJock> carlos: ok thanks, and how often are new lang-packs created?
<Kmos> OOPS-698EC85
<carlos> LaserJock: it's supposed to be done monthly, although that's not always true... is better that you talk with pitti about it
<Kmos> I'm at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elfutils/+publishinghistory and clicked on version 0.127-4 and it goes at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/elfutils/0.127-4
<Kmos> but got OOPS
<carlos> see you all!!
<LaserJock> carlos: thanks again
<carlos> you are welcome
<carlos> enjoy!!!
<ubotu> New bug: #172911 in launchpad "+publishinghistory causes OOPS when click in removed release version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172911
<xp_prg> hi all!  I created my vmware image with jeOS but it is working on my computer and not on another computer, can anyone help me?
<xp_prg> I get error rejecting I/O to offline device
<xp_prg> at the initramfs prompt
<bigon> could someone schedule a new try to build https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/lablgtk2/2.10.0-2
<bigon> ?
<xp_prg> can anyone help me please:  https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-jeos/+question/18996
<daub> hi, i want to upload my package to the ppa. but i get following error:
<daub> http://rafb.net/p/oc8gs094.html
<xp_prg> does anyone see me?
<daub> does anyone know something about it
<daub> the output comes from dput
<mpt> xp_prg, #launchpad is about the Launchpad site. It is not a jeOS support channel.
<xp_prg> ok oops
<ubotu> New bug: #172915 in launchpad "Download files view on a release does not show "Delete Files" button" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172915
<ubotu> New bug: #172919 in launchpad "Need a "Delete" icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172919
<Fujitsu> bigon: You want to ask for a give-back on #ubuntu-devel.
<bigon> thx
<poolie> hi
<cyberix> How long does it take after dput for packages to appear in PPA?
<Fujitsu> cyberix: It processes them every 5 minutes.
<cyberix> Will source packages be built automagically into binary packages?
<Fujitsu> cyberix: Yes.
<cyberix> How long does this take then?
<Fujitsu> cyberix: Builds should be created within around 30 minutes of your upload, and then build soon (probably less than an hour) after that, depending on the load on the build machines.
<cyberix> ok
<cyberix> thanks
<Fujitsu> Hm, I see the launchpad-bazaar merging feature is used so often. I just created the 34th merge...
<somerville32> Fujitsu, My project will be using it heavily soon
<dennda> can I somehow subscribe myself to all bugs that are reported for an entire project?
<Fujitsu> dennda: Yes, just set yourself as the bug contact.
<imbrandon> hrm i requested that my PPA have all packages removed ( prior to 1.1.11 rollout ) and they were marked "deleted" in the UI ( on edge ) within 24 hours, but now its been a week ( or more ) and they are still in the /pool , ideas ?
<dennda> Fujitsu: how? (I am not the one who registered the project)
<imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+archive   and   http://ppa.launchpad.net/imbrandon/ubuntu are the relevant urls
<Fujitsu> dennda: Ah, then I don't think you can do it yourself at the moment.
<dennda> Fujitsu: The one who actually registered the project could do so?
<dennda> (/me wonders why that isn't possible for users who are eager to fix bugs) :D
<Fujitsu> dennda: Bug #3067.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 3067 in malone "Subscribe to a project's bugs" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3067
<dennda> I'll ask the 'owner' then. 
<dennda> I see :)
<Fujitsu> Being a bug contact implies additional privileges, unfortunately.
<dennda> Oh, that thing has been registered a while ago...
<Fujitsu> ?
<dennda> thanks for the hints, Fujitsu. I will get some rest now
<dennda> (the blueprint)
<dennda> good night
<dennda> and thanks again
<Fujitsu> Ah, yes, LP development isn't entirely rapid.
<Fujitsu> Night, and no problem.
#launchpad 2007-11-30
<kiko> well
<kiko> it's pretty rapid!
 * Fujitsu watches a glacier outrun some feature development.
<kiko> when we get started on something. the issue is mainly that a lot of the features aren't on the priority list.
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<Fujitsu> And assuming it doesn't get deferred release after release after release after release...
<Fujitsu> Then another 5 releases...
<Fujitsu> (that's actually a real-life example, though I an't remember exactly which bug)
<Fujitsu> s/an't/can't/. Stupid lag.
<mwhudson> we're certainly going to try to stop doing that
<Fujitsu> That would be good.
<Fujitsu> It was originally targetted for 1.1.6 or 1.1.7, was progressively deferred, then deferred again to 1.2.3 or so.
<kiko> Fujitsu, it might be something that just isn't really important and the priority stack is high. the fact that the milestoning is visible may be somewhat unfortunate there..
<ubotu> New bug: #172952 in malone "status sorting puts invalid bugs first" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172952
<kiko> dupe
<Fujitsu> kiko: Right, it probably isn't that important. But pushing it back and back visibly is a tad annoying.
<kiko> Fujitsu, which is why I'm saying that the milestoning being visible can be a bit unfortunate. :)
<kiko> if you didn't know it was scheduled, it wouldn't be such an issue
<kiko> and engineers get sick, go on vacation, get stuck, etc
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<kiko> working with fixed deadlines, customers and priorities is a hard problem, no matter how much good will and late nights you put in.
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<somerville32> Can I close a bug via a bazaar push?
<jelmer> sommerville32: one marked with `bzr commit --fixes` you mean ? afaik not yet
<somerville32> if I put Closes lp: #XXX in my commit message and upload, will it close a bug?
<jelmer> no, I'm pretty sure it doesn't do that yet
<jelmer> that's the sort of thing --fixes is meant for
<LaserJock> somerville32: it works for uploading, not commiting to bzr
<somerville32> LaserJock, uploading bzr branches?
<somerville32> or just packageS?
<somerville32> Because if it doesn't work for bazaar uploads, it should
<LaserJock> package
<LaserJock> s
<LaserJock> well, the bug isn't closed until it's in the archives
<LaserJock> having a closes lp: #xxxx set the bug to Fix Commited might be helpful
<LaserJock> although there might be problems with that
<Fujitsu> How do you tell which is the proper branch? What if I push a branch containing a fix for some random project? My branch isn't at all officila.
<Fujitsu> *official
<LaserJock> exactly
<somerville32> Launchpad isn't just for Ubuntu, folks :P
<somerville32> I want this for _my_ project hosted on launchpad
<somerville32> Maybe make it so that it can only close bugs under the project it is uploaded to?
<Fujitsu> .... how is that relevant?
<somerville32> Fujitsu, What exactly do you not understand about my request?
<Fujitsu> Should I be able to say a bug is closed because I, somebody completely unrelated to the project, push a branch to LP:?
<Fujitsu> s/://
<somerville32> Fujitsu, You can do it now :/
<somerville32> Fujitsu, You just visit the bug, and close it
<somerville32> So... how is _your_ comment relevant?
<Fujitsu> If I were pushing a bugfix branch, I would most probably reference a bug number in the changelog. That doesn't mean the bug should be closed.
<somerville32> Fujitsu, There would be a syntax ofcourse 
<ubotu> New bug: #173006 in soyuz "Build failure emails could link to the source package release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173006
 * Hobbsee waves
 * somerville32 waves back.
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, it's a planned improvements; I'd talk to thumper about it IIWY :)
<somerville32> kiko-zzz, aweosme :)
<ubotu> New bug: #173009 in soyuz "backport-source fails with a dpkg-genchanges error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173009
<bac> Hobbsee: ping
<Hobbsee> bac: pong
 * Hobbsee waves to sabdfl
<sabdfl> moin moin, Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hey sabdfl.
<bac> sabdfl: morning
<sabdfl> howdy, guys
<Hobbsee> bac: what's up?
<bac> Hobbsee: you know much about translations?  i've got a new project i want to set up to use translations but the ui is unclear.
<Hobbsee> bac: close to nothing about translations, i'm afraid.  go talk to carlos :)
<Hobbsee> bac: checking internal documentation, if it exists, may also help
<Fujitsu> bac: What exactly are you unclear on?
<bac> Hobbsee: none of that team is around atm
<mrevell> hey bac, you're up early/late
<bac> hey mrevell 
<bac> mrevell: what happened to "Define usage" in the action portlet on the project overview page?
<Fujitsu> It got consumed by +edit.
<mrevell> bac: If you click "Change details" and scroll down, you'll find the options to define the project's usage.
<bac> thanks guys, i was looking right past that
<Fujitsu> A lot of people miss it, though it's normally the bug tracker bit.
<bac> it was right in front of me but i was looking for the old way...  :(
<mrevell> bac: Maybe we need to change the text on the translations.lp.net/project page that appears to the owners of projects who haven't enabled translations. I'm not sure if uploading a template automatically sets the "uses translations" flag.
<mrevell> jtv: If a project owner uploads a translations template, does that automatically set the "uses Translations" flag for that project?
<bac> mrevell: that's my next question...how do you upload the initial POT file? 
 * bac wandering around in all new parts of LP
<mrevell> bac: Are you the project owner?
<bac> yep
<Fujitsu> Translations... new? Wasn't Rosetta the first part to be publically available?
<bac> Fujitsu: new to *me*
<mrevell> Have you set up a release series for the project?
<bac> mrevell: yes
<Fujitsu> bac: Ah.
<mrevell> Hmm, there should be an option to upload a template for each release series on your project's translations overview page - i.e. translations.launchpad.net/projectname
<bac> mrevell: right.  go to the relase series, then to the translation tab
<mrevell> And then "Upload translation" in the Actions menu
<bac> mrevell: it's a bit confusing if you're on the project overview page and then go to the translation tab.  it just says "you need to upload" but no direction that it has to be done from a release series.  in retrospect it's "obvious"
<mrevell> bac: Aren't your release series listed on that page? The release series names should be links to the upload page for that series
<bac> mrevell: not on translations.lp.net/project
<bac> no list of release on that page
<mrevell> bac: In that case, I'm a little confused. I'll mail the translations guys to get a better understanding of how it fits together.
<Hobbsee> oh neat.  stopping builds is still broken.
<bac> mrevell: cool.  thanks.
<mrevell> bac: On the translations overview page for the launchpad-documentation project, I get an link for each release series.
<bac> mrevell: i wonder if that's b/c translations have been uploaded and approved for those releases?
<mrevell> bac: Maybe but I don't think they have. The message I get says, "To set up Launchpad Documentation for translation in Launchpad, you need to upload a translation template for one of its release series."
<mrevell> and then links to the upload pages for both series that the project has inherited from the launchpad-project group
<mrevell> perhaps it's something to do with it being part of a project group
<mrevell> Nope, I just tried another project and it also gave me a link to upload translations.
<bac> mrevell: perhaps.  or maybe it's me trying to do something new at 4am
<mrevell> :)
<bac> mrevell: thanks for your help.  i'll look at it later.
<mrevell> np, if you have a screenshot or pastebin of the text you get on the overview page, I'd be curious to see it.
<mrevell> See you in your (later) morning :)
<Hobbsee> oh, hum.  that's right, i need to file some more LP bugs.
 * Hobbsee files a bug on the lack of cancelling builds functionality
<ubotu> New bug: #173018 in soyuz "Soyuz refuses to let you cancel a build" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173018
<Hobbsee> mrevell: which section of launchpad deals with teams, and team creation?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Are you filing a bug?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: i'm filing many bugs.
<Hobbsee> (yes)
<mrevell> Hobbsee: :) Then launchpad is the project to file it under
<Hobbsee> mrevell: ah right, i thought there might be a subset
 * Hobbsee thinks https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/173019 is an excellent bug.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173019 in launchpad "Information marked "optional" should not be mandatory to fill in." [Undecided,New] 
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Nah. Anything that doesn't fit neatly into one of the others - e.g. malone - goes into launchpad.
<Hobbsee> i wasn't sure if there were some teams i'd missed, that was all
<ubotu> New bug: #173019 in launchpad "Information marked "optional" should not be mandatory to fill in." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173019
<Hobbsee> launchpad_bugs++
<Hobbsee> right.  3 reported...what else did i have to report?
<kiko-zzz> this is why we have the best bugtracker
<Fujitsu> kiko-zzz: Because Launchpad is buggy?
<ubotu> New bug: #173021 in launchpad "OOPS when putting too big a number in the (optional) renewal period box when editing a team" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173021
<Hobbsee> kiko-zzz: we have the best bugtracker, because so many bugs about said bugtracker are reported.  yup.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<Hobbsee> kiko-zzz: i don't suppose you a) care, or b) have access to the buildds?
<kiko-zzz> Hobbsee, I care, but cprov is the one to talk to
<Hobbsee> kiko-zzz: i guess he's here now too :)
<cprov> Hobbsee: hi, how can I help you ?
<Hobbsee> cprov: any chance you can kill the build running on sejong?  it's marked as not OK - timed out, and has been going for 8+ hours.
<Hobbsee> cprov: the LP version of that is not currently implemented.  (bug already filed)
<cprov> Hobbsee: I don't have access to ubuntu buildd, only PPA ones
<Hobbsee> cprov: darn.
<Hobbsee> kiko-zzz: i take it you don't eihter, on that basis.
<Hobbsee> Ng: might be able to do it, actually
<Ng> Hobbsee: I think the current build is working - LP status tells me its only been building for 22 minutes and the machine is doing things (although it did get wedged overnight and I restarted it)
<cprov> Hobbsee: https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/sejong
<Hobbsee> oh, ti has started working again.  pitti was right then, that it does eventually reset itself after marking as manual, then as auto again.
<Hobbsee> Ng: cprov sorry for the noise
<cprov> Hobbsee: np
<Hobbsee> Ng: oh, you did fix it harder.  great :)
<Ng> I'm by no means a buildd admin, but I will stab a wedged machine in the face and mark it as auto again :)
<Hobbsee> Ng: hehe :)
<cyberix> Packages from my PPA cannot be authenticated. Why is that?
<cyberix> How does the authentication work anyway. I signed the package before dputting it.
<Hobbsee> cyberix: you signed the source.  you didn't sign the binaries that launchpad built.
<cyberix> How do I sign the binary?
<cyberix> Someone else does?
<Hobbsee> you don't.  that would require launchpad using your private gpg key to sign the packages as yours.
<cyberix> Yes, that is what I asumed.
<Hobbsee> which is oh so wrong, on so many levels.
<cyberix> I can't know, if the binary is good anyway because I didn't compile it myself.
<cyberix> Does Launchpad sign it with wathever key?
<Hobbsee> this is true, you need to trust the build system.
<cyberix> Just to make sure it has not been altered in transfer
<Hobbsee> not yet.  it's on the todo list
<cyberix> ok
<cyberix> So I should not care by now
<Hobbsee> you know that nothing is lost in transfer, anyway
<Hobbsee> if there were losses between your machine, and launchpad, the md5sums would not match.
<cyberix> ok
<cyberix> thanks
<Hobbsee> so no, you don't need to care currently
<Hobbsee> cyberix: to sign the binaries on launchpad yourself would be the equivalent of putting your eftpos card, and pin somewhere very public, so anyone could take it and use it.
<Hobbsee> cyberix: at best, it would be you giving your card, and pin to launchpad, and hope that they'd never do anything bad with it.
<cyberix> Yep, doesn't make any sense.
<Hobbsee> oh, and you can know if the binary is good
<Hobbsee> they build using a chroot system, so you'll get the same output binary as launchpad does, if you build it with a !pbuilder
<cyberix> I'm talking about a case where Launchpad would suddenly turn evil.
<Hobbsee> as in, inserting other random stuff, on top of your source?
<cyberix> for example
<Hobbsee> you could build your binary, check where it installs things to, and diff each individual file with your cleanly-built version
<Hobbsee> cyberix: do you run ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> cyberix: if you did, the first thing you'd do would be to switch distro.  after that, you'd probably stop uploading to ppa.
<Hobbsee> if you suspected LP had turned evil.
<cyberix> Of course.
<cyberix> But I would still not want to have shipped evil stuff that has been signed by me to be good.
<Hobbsee> which would not happen, as you're not signing the binaries, only the source.
<cyberix> Yes
<Hobbsee> i see what you're saying now
<Hobbsee> the question about "well, if i didn't build the source to get a binary, why should i sign it?"
<cyberix> yep
<Hobbsee> a logical question.  a good one :)
<Hobbsee> and an equally good answer.  "this is one of the reasons that you don't".
<Hobbsee> should get that added to the FAQ.
<cyberix> I could of course revoke my key with message "Launchpad has now gone evil and they managed to steal my identity."
<cyberix> Or something like that.
<cyberix> Saying "It wasn't me", even if it actulla was me.
<Hobbsee> cyberix: only if you were silly enough to give them the private key
<cyberix> Ot if I signed their evil binary package.
<cyberix> Or
<Hobbsee> cyberix: assuming you keep your private key private...they can't actually do anything with your public key of interest
<Hobbsee> you'd have awful trouble doing that - you don't have a login to their servers.
<Hobbsee> debsign -r doesn't work over https :)
<Hobbsee> in fact, debsign won't even let you sign a binary
<cyberix> How ever, key revocation doesn't usually work very well anyway.
<cyberix> oh
<Hobbsee> what makes you say that?
<Hobbsee> oh, yes, i see, it does depend on other people actually refreshing the keys every once in a while
<cyberix> Yes
<Hobbsee> not sure if you can ever get aroudn that
<daub> hi, i want to dput my package to the build service. but the package was rejected with following message:
<daub> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<daub> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
<daub> in the changelog file i use gutsy as distribution.
<rick_h_> daub: when you run dput, you have to specify the heading from your dput conf
<frenchy> daub: Where are you uploading to.
<rick_h_> I think the docs have you create a my-ppa section
<rick_h_> so your dput command has to be dput my-ppa .....
<rick_h_> I did the exact same thing my first time using the ppa setup
<daub> ok, now i changed it to my-ppa
<daub> i thought it was something like a placeholder
<rick_h_> daub:there's a global dput config that defaults to the universe repository I think.
<rick_h_> so it was just saying you can't upload a package to universe right now
<Hobbsee> rick_h_: s/universe/ubuntu/
<rick_h_> Hobbsee: ah, sorry
<Hobbsee> as in, the official ubuntu archives
<rick_h_> daub: check out /etc/dput.cf for the rest of the config 
<rick_h_> you can go in and make your ppa the default one in the future
<daub> rick_h_: i followed th instructions on launchpad
<daub> have i to do any changes?
<rick_h_> daub: no, just specify my-ppa when you run dput
<daub> ok, i'm waiting for the accepted/rejected message
<rick_h_> daub: good luck!
<daub> accepted, yes :)
<rick_h_> good stuff, now the build wait begins
<Peng> Donning my RTFM-proof asbestos suit, what about Mercurial support and open-sourcing Launchpad?
 * Peng gets in a car and drives away at high speeds.
<rick_h_> Peng: I'm with you on the Hg front. <3, but I'm not holding my breath
<Hobbsee> they plan to open source eventually, no timeframe has been given.
<frenchy> I'd like to package w_scan if it hasn't already been done.  Is that possible?
<daub> rick_h_: i see now the source package in my ppa. will it build now a .deb?
<frenchy> Probably a bit late at this stage for Hardy.
<rick_h_> daub: yep, it just takes a little while to get time on a build server and such
<Hobbsee> frenchy: not a question for here, but sure, why not?
<frenchy> Hobbsee: Ooops ... hhahah ... sorry guys.
<Hobbsee> frenchy: why wouldn't you be able to?
<daub> rick_h_: ok, i'll check this later. thanks.
<Hobbsee> frenchy: it appears they've never heard of makefiles, etc, though.  or something.
<ddaa> no plans to support hg in the short term, but you could have a look at the bzr-hg plugin.
<Peng> ddaa: Any Canonical-runs-bzr sort of politics involved?
<rick_h_> daub: if you select the "view build records" you can see packages waiting to be built, in build, and completed. Play around with it.
<ddaa> Peng: I am not sure what you mean.
<ddaa> Certainly, Launchpad runs bzr. Bzr was largely started in an effort to provide a good DVCS for Launchpad and Ubuntu.
<ddaa> And one of the points of Launchpad is to unify disparate data sources. So we got to pick one DVCS.
<Peng> ddaa: I meant "runs" as in "owns".
<ddaa> That sounds a bit fallacious to me. It does not own bzr any more that it owns Ubuntu.
<Peng> Sponsors, then. Whatever term you want.
<Peng> (Canonical *does* own the copyright to the bzr code, though.)
<ddaa> Peng: for the same reasons that the FSF own the copyright of GNU tools.
<Peng> I know.
<Peng> I'm not complaining about that.
<ddaa> Peng: to try to answer your initial question: Launchpad got to pick one DVCS, and we think that bzr is superior technically and in user experience.
<ddaa> Supporting interoperation with hg and git is something we want to do eventually, but there will only ever be one first class DVCS in Launchpad (as far as I understand the current strategy).
<Peng> ddaa: Would it be technically difficult? Or just having to maintain multiple things, or nobody's gotten around to it or what?
<ddaa> I cannot give a simple answer to that.
<ddaa> Partly, it's lack of resources. Partly is that doing it as well as we would want to is technically difficult.
<ddaa> There also the fact that hg/git are not nearly as prevalent as CVS and Subversion.
<Peng> Neither is bzr. :P
<ddaa> We aim at fixing that :)
<Peng> Heh.
<Peng> One could claim that supporting hg and git in Launchpad would help make them and Launchpad more prevalent too.
<ddaa> My personal position (not speaking for my employer here) is that users can help themselves using (and improving) bzr-git and bzr-hg if they want to work with git or hg data on Launchpad.
<ddaa> They are transparent interoperation plugins and do not require a centralized service to provide an authoritative conversion.
<ddaa> Of course, it does not help if you want to publish hg or git data.
<Peng> And it's also less clean and riskier than using hg or git directly.
<ddaa> I understand they are compelling reasons (mostly, network effects) for people to use hg or git.
<ddaa> If one of them becomes massively more prevalent than the other, and bzr becomes bound to irrelevance, we'll go with the community.
<ddaa> The bzr folks are doing a great job to ensure that does not happen though :)
<Peng> It'd be nice if there were fewer choices, but I'd hate for any of the DVCSes to go away. They all have their benefits and new ideas.
<doko> ddaa: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-java/uj/icedtea7 , do you know how to get this published, or who to ask?
<ddaa> In any case, Launchpad needs to pick one DVCS. We plan to provide tight integration between projects and between launchpad services. Supporting multiple first-class DVCS would be a lot of extra effort and would defeat the point.
<kiko> ddaa, could you edit that into a faq?
<ddaa> kiko: I just said a lot of things. If you could pick the bits you want in a FAQ, I'm willing to edit them.
<ddaa> doko: that should be published any minute.
<ddaa> automatically
<doko> ddaa: but it doesn't :-(
 * ddaa checks
<kiko> ddaa, just an answer to "what RCSs does launchpad support (and why)?"
<ddaa> I'll write a ML message for review.
<ddaa> doko: looks like there's nothing to be published
<ddaa> maybe you should file a but to the effect that "hosted branches registered via the web ui but never pushed to always appear as 'not published yet'".
<doko> ddaa: so how do I start? Tried to create a local archive as well, then binding it to the lp URL
<ddaa> you need to "bzr push"
<ddaa> "bzr push bzr+ssh://doko@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-java/uj/icedtea7" or something close to that
<ddaa> there should be an example command displayed on the page for you
<doko> ddaa: well, ok, it was not clear to me that this is not just an example command, but required to start working with the repo
<ddaa> doko: I am not sure we are in sync
<ddaa> it's not required for your to start working
<ddaa> but you do need to somehow upload data to Launchpad for Launchpad to publish it
<ubotu> New bug: #173045 in launchpad-bazaar "Branches are not published" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173045
<ubotu> New bug: #173062 in launchpad "implement PM system " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173062
<Hobbsee> ....
<Peng> Ouch, next mirror of a new branch in 5 hours.
<Hobbsee> repeat after me, launchpad is not a forum.
<Hobbsee> launchpad is not a place for socializing.
<Hobbsee> why oh why would you therefore want a pm system, when people would only get notified by email anyway?
<Peng> You integrate lots of things into Launchpad. Integrating e-mail is a valid suggestion.
<ember> Hobbsee it was me, and it wasn't intent to 'socialize" was just to quickening and simply things
<Hobbsee> but...when youd' have to send the notifications by email anyway?
<Hobbsee> how does that help speed things up?
<Hobbsee> youd' have to visit LP, see what the PM was about, respond via LP, and wait for them to do the same?
<Hobbsee> Peng: yeah, but i would have classed PM's in with forums and such
<ember> you are talking normal pm forums systems
<ember> doesn't have to be that way
<ember> that's why it was just an idea..
<Hobbsee> i seem to be missing what else you're proposing
<Hobbsee> ah well
<Hobbsee> i'm a lowly user - other people decides what gets done and doesn't.  i doubt that'll go very high on the list, but that's their decision, not mine.
<ember> well a start is that you just can check your pm in your email without going on lp
<ember> well i'm not either 
<Hobbsee> but that's the same as email, or close to...
<Peng> Well, having messages organized by project or even branch isn't so bad.
<Peng> The thing is, in many cases there better places to discuss things, in public like in bugs or mailing lists.
<ember> Hobbsee i understand you, i was waiting for feedback thou
<Peng> I'd say the clunkiness and effort of a PM system isn't worth the organization benefits over email.
<ember> or perhaps a link in the email of the user to open the email client
<Hobbsee> whcih is another page load, and annoying.
<ember> yeah, youre right for those who don't use email clients it may be annoying
<Hobbsee> ...we have official incomplete-expiry now?
<ember> why?
<Hobbsee> there's a tooltip telling me that the bug will expire in 59 days
<Hobbsee> i thought it was reverted till further notice.
<ember> lol
<somerville32> Hobbsee, You must have missed the further notice?
<somerville32> :P
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i expected them to actually tlel lp-users, ubuntu-devel@, etc, seeing as it affects them an awful lot
 * somerville32 nods.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i don't think that effective notification is getting a whole stack of auto-expired bugmail.  again.
<somerville32> Hobbsee, btw, everything is good again :]
<Hobbsee> somerville32: w.r.t?
<somerville32> security
<Hobbsee> oh, good.
<SteveM> My project appears to have a corrupted download. Re-uploading does not fix the problem (a re-download on another machine gives the bad file). I assume this is caching at work. Does anyone know how long download binaries are cached?
<kiko-fud> SteveM, not caching. something else. bac can you help him?
<bac> kiko-fud: sure
<SteveM> Maybe mirroring and redirection?
<bac> hi SteveM
<SteveM> Hi!
<SteveM> Repeat: My project appears to have a corrupted download. Re-uploading does not fix the problem (a re-download on another machine gives the bad file). I assume this is caching at work. Does anyone know how long download binaries are cached?
<ubotu> New bug: #173081 in launchpad "Rename the 'Launchpad Janitor'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173081
<kiko-fud> bac?
<bac> kiko-fud: ?
<kiko-fud> bac, see SteveM's re-post :-P
<bac> kiko-fud: handled
<SteveM> Figured out.
<bac> kiko-fud: everyone is happy.  :)
<SteveM> .tar.gz files were being unpacked by the browser.
<SteveM> We're testing .tgz instead.
<kiko-fud> ah, cool
<kiko-fud> I didn't see the resolution, just the re-post
<SteveM> We'd jumped to private chat.
<Peng> (100% not a bash.) I think it's interesting that Launchpad is very public about releases and development and bugs, while it's closed-source. Sounds a little tricky to do.
<SteveM> I'm trying to figure out how to get launchpad downloads of .tar.gz files to behave as expected by most users. Right now, Launchpad downloads send a "Content-Encoding: gzip" header with these files. While nominally correct, this is causing browsers to unpack the files on download.
<SteveM> That's causing confusion, since the files are keeping the .tar.gz filename extension.
<SteveM> Same problem, by the way, with .tgz files.
<intellectronica> SteveM: interesting problem. consider this, though - the only way to get around that on the server is to serve the files using the wrong mime type, which is a bit nasty). on the client, otoh, you can decided how to handle different file types.
<intellectronica> SteveM: surely you've experienced this problem with other sites too?
<SteveM> intellectronica: The problem, though, isn't the MIME type.
<SteveM> It's the Content-Encoding heaer.
<SteveM> s/heaer/header/
<intellectronica> SteveM: really? what value do you get?
<SteveM> "Content-Encoding: gzip"
<SteveM> There's actually no MIME type in the response.
<intellectronica> SteveM: looks like a bug to me.
<SteveM> Many servers will send a MIME type with this type of content that indicates the gzip. Most browsers (except safari) ignore the gzip part of that.
<SteveM> But, with a "Content-Encoding" header, all browsers will unpack it.
<intellectronica> SteveM: Content-Encoding: gzip tells the browser to unpack the file, which you only want in cases where you actually serve stuff you want the browser to display
<intellectronica> SteveM: maybe you can raise a bug?
<SteveM> IMHO, right.
<SteveM> Will do.
<intellectronica> SteveM: excellent, thanks!
<ubotu> New bug: #173096 in malone "Misleading "Content-Encoding: gzip" header on downloads" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173096
<Peng> Oh, good. Even if it said 5 hours to mirror a branch, it was much less.
<Peng> 2 or 3, maybe.
<Peng> Or less.
<nxvl_work> hi
<nxvl_work> is there any way to find people on LP by county?
<nxvl_work> is there any way to find people on LP by country?
<kiko> well
<kiko> there are loco teams
<kiko> nxvl_work, what do you want to know specifically?
<ubotu> New bug: #173121 in malone "branch search fails with full description" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173121
<ubotu> New bug: #173139 in launchpad "HWDB needs to make system_fingerprint URL-safe in result sets" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173139
<ubotu> New bug: #173141 in malone "urls should follow some common naming scheme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173141
<Peng> With branch statuses, what's the difference between "Fix Available" and "Best Fix Available"? Once your code is perfect, change it to Best?
<kiko-afk> I think best fix might be a bit of an overkill
<Peng> Well I know that there could be no better fix ever. It's completely impossible. My patch is perfect.
<kiko-afk> Peng, now now, let's not get carried away, it's just a branch status. 
<kiko-afk> Best Fix Available; Best Fix EVAH
<Peng> It would spam everybody if I changed it, wouldn't it?
<kiko-afk> I'm not 100% sure as I haven't used this feature myself
#launchpad 2007-12-01
<thumper> Peng: no, updating bug-branch status doesn't send email at the moment
<Fujitsu> thumper: That sounds wrong...
<thumper> Fujitsu: yes, it is wrong, it hasn't been implemented yet
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Peng> Oh, good.
<Peng> I can switch between Fix and Best Fix without bothering anybody.
<poeloq> re
<Hobbsee> dear launchpad, why do you insist on borking build scripts?
<Hobbsee> no, hang on.
<Fujitsu> Who do I attack for the extra clicks to assign *every single task*?
<ubotu> New bug: #173195 in malone "Malone on edge *click* shouldn't *click* ask *click* me if I want to *click* assign a bug to *click* a developer *click*" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173195
<ubotu> New bug: #173194 in vmware-server (partner) "update-manager asks me to upgrade vmware-server, but it is the same version : (dup-of: 172275)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173194
<hubuntu> what aboput translating launchpad for non english speaking users?
<hubuntu> if rosetta (launchpad translations) is going to be useful it has to be able to translate from within languages (f.eks. from spanish to quechua)
<hubuntu> and the interface should be in spanish as well...
<hubuntu> any plans on doing this?
<hubuntu> we could help with the translation itself (speaking forme and the contact memebrs at ubuntu-es... I hope ;)
 * RainCT doesn't like the "confirm assignment" page :P
<Hobbsee> RainCT: it's already been whinged about :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: wrote a bug
<RainCT> :)
 * RainCT thinks it makes work flow slower
<Hobbsee> quite likely
<Hobbsee> i've yet to see it - haven't tried fighting that part of LP
<BUGabundo> bug 173301
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173301 in launchpad "bad launchpad design with firefox in full screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173301
<BUGabundo> can anyone reproduce this bug?
<BUGabundo> thanks
<BUGabundo> no one here running launchpad edge (beta) version?
<ubotu> New bug: #173301 in launchpad "bad launchpad design with firefox in full screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173301
<BUGabundo> that could try to reproduce this bug?
<BUGabundo> bug 173301
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173301 in launchpad "bad launchpad design with firefox in full screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173301
<radix> um
<radix> please stop spamming
<BUGabundo> how is asking for a simple test, spaming, radix?
<radix> BUGabundo: doing it three times :)
<BUGabundo> did it twice only
<soren> Especially since noone has joined the channel since you asked first time.
<radix> BUGabundo: It looks like your browser ignored or didn't download the CSS data
<soren> No.
<radix> or maybe the server blew up serving the CSS to you in that one request
<BUGabundo> did a full sifht f5 refresh
<radix> this happens to me occasionally on other sites, I don't think I've ever seen it on LP
<BUGabundo> will try firefox-3.0
<BUGabundo> just tried it on FF3.0 and the pages load fine! soren
<BUGabundo> FF 2.0 cache clear, still happening
<ubotu> New bug: #173324 in linux-meta "Will nfs4-acl-tools bei in 8.04?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173324
<ubotu> New bug: #173159 in ubuntu "It may be useful to add All Results button in search results page of bug tracker" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173159
<Flare183> I am trying to upload a package to my PPA, and I don't know how to go about uploading the packages
<Fujitsu> Flare183: Have you read https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart?
<karim> what is soyuz ?
<Fujitsu> karim: The distribution and PPA management component of Launchpad.
<karim> I can't install that to build an optimised powerc pc G4 for me ?
<Fujitsu> It is probably inappropriate for such a task, and the source code is currently unavailable.
<Fujitsu> (it is a proprietary tool)
<karim> what must I use to do this task ?
<Fujitsu> You may be able to convince rebuildd to do what you wish.
#launchpad 2007-12-02
<karim> Fujitsu: I installed it, however I am not sure how to specify build options for gcc
<JordanC> Hey folks
<JordanC> What's the easiest way for me to simply commit code to the BZR repo using KDE
<JordanC> I have tried olive, and it doesn't work
<frenchy> JordanC: Ha, I use GNOME and it doesn't work their either.
<frenchy> JordanC: I've just gone back to the command line.  I'm use to SVN on the command line so it's not too bad for me.
<frenchy> Oops s/their/there/ ... I hate myself.
<JordanC> I've been told QBzr is good, but I'm yet to get it to work :D
<JordanC> This really is shambolic ;D
<frenchy> I like that word.  Many a time in my life that I could've used that.
<frenchy> JordanC: Sorry, for being much help though.
<lifeless> JordanC: qbzr possibly
<frenchy> s/for/for not/
<frenchy> It's getting late here and I had too much to drink today.
<JordanC> Yeah, that's not working either
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: In what way is it 'not working'?
<ubotu> New bug: #173415 in launchpad "Please perform a massive tag purge for the Ubuntu project" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173415
<JordanC> Odd_Bloke: It's just not running
<JordanC> Errors on installation
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: How are you installing it?
<JordanC> Just using the install scripts
<JordanC> It's in py, so
<JordanC> See, here's the problem with QtBzr
<JordanC> OutFile "qbzr-setup-${PRODUCT_VERSION}.exe" <--
<JordanC> It's windows only, it seems
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: The Windows-only install scripts are, indeed, Windows-only. :p
<Odd_Bloke> You'll want https://launchpad.net/qbzr/trunk/0.7.1/+download/qbzr-0.7.1.tar.gz
<Odd_Bloke> And then use setup.py from there.
<Odd_Bloke> Alternatively, you could just branch https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~qbzr-dev/qbzr/trunk into ~/.bazaar/plugins/qbzr
<JordanC> I have that
<JordanC> Still, the setup file requires parameters to be run
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: './setup.py install' will install it system-wide.
<Odd_Bloke> If you only want it for yourself, then branching into ~/.bazaar/plugins/qbzr is the better idea.
<JordanC> rofl .. more errors :D
<Odd_Bloke> Though you probably want to branch from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~qbzr-dev/qbzr/0.7.1 as that's stable.
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: To clarify, you would run 'bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~qbzr-dev/qbzr/0.7.1 ~/.bazaar/plugins/qbzr'.
<JordanC> Okay, running
<JordanC> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~qbzr-dev/qbzr/0.71/"
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: 0.7.1, not 0.71.
<JordanC> Oops
<JordanC> :D
<JordanC> Yeah, the directory for ~./bazaar/ doesn't exist
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: 'mkdir -p ~/.bazaar/plugins'
<JordanC> If it doesn't exist, though -- what exact purpose will this have?
<JordanC> Okay, it branched 165 revisions
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: ~/.bazaar/plugins is where bzr looks for user-installed plugins.  If you haven't installed any plugins just for yourself there, then there's obviously no reason for it to exist.
<Odd_Bloke> JordanC: Try using a QBzr command.
<JordanC> Right
<JordanC> Okay, so basically, this is going to launch a Qt window when I run commands?
<JordanC> Otherwise I may as well just use bzr on shell
<Kmos> kiko: bug 173415 - can you have a word about this one ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173415 in malone "Please perform a massive tag purge for the Ubuntu project" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173415
<kiko> Kmos, wow. who is requesting that?
<Kmos> RainCT
<kiko> the proper solution is official bug tags, though
<Kmos> :)
<kiko> heh
<kiko> if you really wanna do that you'd need to go through the CC
<Kmos> kiko: and can't be cleaned up ?
<Hobbsee> kiko: you say that, when the last meeting was a few days ago.. :)
<kiko> that's only because I love you Hobbsee 
<Kmos> kiko: i think launchpad should have a system to clean them up after 1,2,3,[choose here] months..
<Hobbsee> kiko: :)
<Kmos> lol
<RainCT> heh
<kiko> well
<kiko> instead of expiring old tags
<kiko> what I think we should do
<kiko> is emphasize official tags
<kiko> and then you can have a process like we do in help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs
<kiko> that's what I think at least
 * Hobbsee ponders how that would work in ubuntu
<Fujitsu> kiko: What's the point of having tags that are unofficial if you have 2000 of them?
<Fujitsu> (and why don't they vanish when they lose all references?)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu++
<RainCT> Fujitsu: they still have, but the number on the tags panel  is "0" since this only counts open bugs
<kiko> Fujitsu, because end-users can choose to tag based on what they want, and because you might want to experiment with new tags
<kiko> the portlet is a mess, I concede too
<Fujitsu> RainCT: Ah, that could do it.
<kiko> the portlet should list only official tags
<kiko> with a link to something like a tag cloud
<kiko> with all tags
<Hobbsee> kiko: i'd imagine you'd lose the tags after they had not been used in a set period of time.
<Fujitsu> A tag cloud of 2000 tags? Ew.
 * RainCT tried removing a tag from a closed bug and the tag disappeared from the list
<Fujitsu> RainCT: Ahaa.
<Fujitsu> Presumably it excludes dupes too.
<Hobbsee> kiko: there are some legit tags.  it appears that tags don't really fit the ubuntu workflow, excluding for a few teams.
<kiko> tags only exist if bugs use them
<Hobbsee> yeah, but going thru the old closed bugs and removing all the tags would, frankly, suck.
<Hobbsee> best to just vanish the portlet, and let those who want to see tags, search for them :)
<Hobbsee> or at least, in ubuntu terms.
<Hobbsee> or just sanitize the way tags are done.
<kiko> that's pretty much what I want to do
<kiko> a) have official tags that are controlled by somebody
<LongPointyStick> buildd.py gpac hardy retry
<LongPointyStick> oops, wrong window.
<LongPointyStick> irssi != console
<kiko> b) only list official tags in the portlet, and show them in the +edit page for bugs so the personc an get it right
<kiko> c) have a way of listing the 2000 tags somewhere else and less prominent (a tag cloud was my idea, but maybe you're right that 2k is crazy)
<Hobbsee> aww, fudge.
 * Hobbsee modifies buildd.py more
 * RainCT likes kiko's proposal but still thinks that removing those 1152 tags would be a good idea
<Kmos> +1
<Kmos> :)
 * Fujitsu thinks that the omg-let's-make-sure-they-really-want-to-assign-a-developer-to-a-bug click-click-click-more-clickness screens should be used for creating new tags, instead.
<RainCT> lol
<Hobbsee> kiko: in the ubuntu world, how would you make it official though?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Get ubuntu-bugcontrol to click `make official.'
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *snort*.  tell me, do you think that'll *stop* people assigning bugs to ubuntu-core-dev?
<kiko> Hobbsee, you'd make some process to make them official. we decide them in a weekly meeting
 * RainCT was about to suggest the same
<kiko> is snorting good or bad
<Hobbsee> kiko: ubuntu has no global meetings.  
<Hobbsee> kiko: it's amused snorting.
<kiko> well, I'm sure you can find a convenient process
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: to block on bugcontrol is bad.  they're quite slow to act.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: We're all in bugcontrol..
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and also, they speak for relatively few bug triagers (and no devs)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i was meaning the admins.  but, if any person in bugcontrol can create tags for ubuntu...that's not a bad idea...
<Fujitsu> bugcontrol is already used for bug permissions (ie. Importance)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed, which is why i think your idea is brilliant.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: but you clearly haven't gotten annoyed enough with the clickity click behaviour of assigning devs to bugs yet.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: either that, or i haven't seen your screenscraping script to avoid it.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: come to think of it, even a greasemonkey script would do...
 * Fujitsu has been working on already assigned bugs today, so hasn't hit it so much.
<Fujitsu> Should it really complain if one tries to assign oneself, anyway?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it should be fairly simple - just redirect the first url to the real one, and skip the question url in the middle.
<RainCT> Fujitsu: if you create one send me a copy ;P
 * Fujitsu hopes it will be fixed in the near future.
<Hobbsee> RainCT: there's a project for launchpad greasemonkey scripts anyway.
 * Hobbsee should get mithrandir to add the rest of his in.
 * Fujitsu likes the karma+emblems one.
<Hobbsee> kiko: right, so, the above solution sounds fairly sane.  can we get the other (unused, in open bugs) ones removed, so we can start again?
<RainCT> btw, why can't packages on packages.ubuntu.com all have a nice file lists? :(
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i like that, and the stock responses ones.  also, mithrandir's buildd sanity highscoring si nice, too
<Hobbsee> but buildd.py is nicer again :)
 * Hobbsee sighs at launchpad.
<Hobbsee> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-gm-scripts/ubuntu has stopped filling in <name>
<Hobbsee> pity.  i liked being able to copy and paste
<Hobbsee> oh, hang on, it's the line below now
<kiko> Hobbsee, sure we can -- does that mean you want to escalate RainCT's bug?
<Hobbsee> kiko: escalate to where?
<kiko> to us
<Hobbsee> kiko: that would be nice, thanks
<Kmos> http://www.askmen.com/toys/top_10_200/235_top_10_list.html
<Kmos> Hobbsee: that's for you :)
<Hobbsee> uh...thanks?
<Kmos> don't needed
 * Fujitsu admits to being thoroughly confused by that use of English.
<Kmos> Fujitsu: hehe
<Hobbsee> i'm assuming its' saying that i don't need to thank him
<Fujitsu> Ah, perhaps.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: exactly
<Kmos> it should be "don't need to" ?
<kiko> no need to
<Fujitsu> Or `no need'
<kiko> and WTF
<Kmos> :)
<Fujitsu> What kiko said, both times.
<Kmos> lol
<kiko> the toys made me think "hmm office-safe or office-not"
<Fujitsu> kiko: Similar.
<kiko> WHY THE HELL DID YOU PUT THAT UGLYASS KRISTEN HOLT ON THE MAIN BANNER IMAGE? SHE LOOKS HORRIBLE! Seriously, are you g.ay?
<kiko> !
<Fujitsu> Capital kiko! Oooh, that's a first.
<kiko> ok. I think I should invest this precious sunday  time in working and not burn it on random irc chat
<Odd_Bloke> "Joanna, fire."
<Fujitsu> Hah.
 * RainCT asks how to install a greasemonkey script
<Fujitsu> RainCT: If you're using Epiphany, drop it in ~/.gnome2/epiphany/extensions/data/greasemonkey. If you're using Firefox, well, I have no idea.
<Hobbsee> install greasemonkey, click on the url of the script you want to run, hti "install script" on the dialog box.
<Fujitsu> That would probably work too.
<RainCT> thanks :)
<RainCT> uh.. and how does this work now? :P
<Fujitsu> RainCT: Which one did you install?
<RainCT> lp_stockreplies.user.js
<Fujitsu> Ah, if you go to a bug and try to edit a section, their should be extra clicky things.
<Fujitsu> s/their/there/. Urgh.
<RainCT> oh ok. cool :)
<etnoy> okay this is probably asked very often by different people, but I need to do some reoganization on my project's page
<etnoy> the Evad project:
<kiko> etnoy, what sort of reorg?
<etnoy> I want to move two releases to another series, and delete a release that got an incorrect number
<etnoy> releases 0.0.1 and 0.0.2 need to be moved from "trunk" to "development" 
<etnoy> the 0.01 release should be deleted
<etnoy> the 0.01 and pre-0.01 series should be deleted
<etnoy> the 0.1-alpha1 milestones should be deleted from trunk
<etnoy> that's it as far as I can see now
<etnoy> it is quite frustrating when I cannot undo the mistakes I have made
<kiko> etnoy, just request this to be done via the support url in the topic.
<etnoy> okay
<kiko> that's a bug that needs fixing, btw
<kiko> it's reported
<etnoy> okay, great. I thought that it was a design issue :)
<santiago-ve> Hello... I am trying to import the bzr .mo file for translations, but roseta keeps giving me an error email
<kiko> .mo or .po?
<RainCT> kiko: when will the new @ubuntu.com adresses be created?
<kiko> RainCT, which new addresses?
<Hobbsee> membership
<RainCT> kiko: for the new members
<kiko> I don't really know; the addresses are maintained by sysadmins, not us
<Hobbsee> RainCT: what's your LP ID, and what are you using to test if the account is active?
<RainCT> Hobbsee: rainct. I'm trying to mail rainct@ubuntu.com but don't receive anything
<Hobbsee> RainCT: are you using gmail to do it?
<kiko> check it out on #canonical-sysadmin?
<RainCT> Hobbsee: yes. is evil gmail hidding them?
<RainCT> Hobbsee: ok, it seems it is :P
<RainCT> thx
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> gmail does that.
<Hobbsee> kiko: i'ts usually user error.  or gmail error.
<kiko> Hobbsee, what does gmail do?
 * RainCT thinks GMail is evil
<Hobbsee> kiko: it thinks mailing yourself is spam, so either sends it to the spam folder, or doesn't send it at all.  i don't remember which
<RainCT> Hobbsee: really? I thought it just hiddes it since it's the same message..
<Hobbsee> RainCT: istr it's a spam thing
<Hobbsee> they didn't used to do it
<Hobbsee> back when i got mine, it was fine
<RainCT> btw, it isn't possible to change the name@ without renaming the LP account, or?
 * RainCT would prefer sgevatter@ubuntu.com like with his ubuntu.cat adress, but prefers to continue being ~rainct on LP
<Hobbsee> RainCT: i assume kiko can answer that
 * Hobbsee is no launcphad person
<kiko> RainCT, I think that's no dice, unfortunately
<kiko> RainCT, but you could talk to the sysadmins
 * Hobbsee thought that some people had requested theirs to be changed
<Hobbsee> on lp answer
<Hobbsee> s
<kiko> their launchpad names as well I believe
<kiko> but IMBW as I really Just Work Here
<Hobbsee> kiko: IMBW?
<kiko> I May Be Wrong
<Hobbsee> ahh
<kiko> I guess that could be the acronym of my life
<kiko> kiko_imbw
<RainCT> hehe
<RainCT> thanks kiko, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> you're welcome
<santiago-ve> kiko, sorry for the late... its a .mo file...
<santiago-ve> same happens with.po files
<kiko> santiago-ve, what sort of error do you get back?
<santiago-ve> it justs says it cant process it
<santiago-ve> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2420/
<kiko> santiago-ve, sounds like a bug. can you ask for support via the /topic URL?
* santiago-ve changed the topic of #launchpad to: url
* santiago-ve changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Next developer meeting: Thu 29 Nov 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Join the beta team: https://help.launchpad.net/JoiningLaunchpadBetaTesters
<santiago-ve> maky
<kiko> heh
<kiko> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<santiago-ve> ty
<santiago-ve> :)
<santiago-ve> im such a noob on irc sometimes :p
<alefteris> im trying to translate a template. I has 4 messages that are differend from the packaged ones. But the translation statistics show also 4 messages as Untranslated, which is not the case. See here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/shotserver/
<kiko-afk> alefteris, our statistics are a bit broken IIRC. can you ask again tomorrow?
<alefteris> ok, thanks for the answer
<emilian> hy. could anyone tell me how long it usually takes for a translation file upload to be reviewed ? I have some files for about 10 days waiting aproval /  rejection...
<jordi> is it a new project?
<emilian> jordi: it is now as i understand subsequent uploads don't need a human aproval (https://translations.launchpad.net/netbeans/+imports)
<jordi> yes
<jordi> is this netbeans as in the Java Netbeans?
<emilian> yes.
<jordi> wow
<emilian> jordi: I'm just trying to use it for alternative languages. maybe convince other existing teams to migrate.
<jordi> are you affiliated with its development? I guess you know we can only import templates if the authors are informed and agree to use LP Translations
<jordi> hmm.
<emilian> jordi: I told them about the usage of launchpad since March and they wanted to see the results.
<jordi> Then I suggest you mail rosetta@launchpad.net about this case. I have access to do the import, but I'm not sure about this case, so better if Danilo or Jeroen answer this one.
<jordi> "they" is Sun?
<emilian> jordi: the translation mailing list (with sun people)
<jordi> aha
<jordi> I see some files are named en.pot, others en.po
<jordi> you probably want to normalise that in the future
<emilian> what do you mean ?
<jordi> templates (what you are uploading) normally use .pot
<emilian> the .po are basically generated from .properties files.
<jordi> but some of your uploaded files use .po, not .pot
<jordi> eyah
<jordi> if they are empty templates they should be .pot, not .po
<emilian> and the .pot are the same .po without the translation (only the "keys")
<jordi> oh
<emilian> they are postprocesed .po files basically.
<jordi> er, but, do en.po files have any translation?
<emilian> as I don't actually have a .pot to begin with, only java .properties file.
<jordi> or just the msgids?
<emilian> yes, the english strings.
<jordi> in msgid or msgstr?
<emilian> in .pot only the ids, empty strings for translation.
<emilian> in .po, the ids and english strings.
<jordi> ah, I see
<jordi> sorry, I thought you were using en.po and en.pot alternatively
<jordi> ok, in any case, I can mail our list and see if tomorrow someone can have a look.
<jordi> I'll add a log of this conversation.
<emilian> i've talked before on this irc channel with someone from canonical (I assume) before re-posting those files.
<jordi> oh
<jordi> when was this?
<emilian> I don't actually mind waiting, I'm just curios *how long*
<jordi> how long normally depends on the workload
<emilian> i think on the 21st or 20, the day before uploading.
<jordi> they just did a big rollout of new features, that probably kept them busy.
<jordi> good
<emilian> the point is that at least in my case I'll use launchpad or nothing at all :)
<emilian> i don't feel like carrying files with me to do the translation, I need something web-based.
<emilian> (and writing my own would take a while ;) ).
<jordi> *nod*
<emilian> ok then, maybe I'll bother you guys again in the next week(s).
<jordi> I just sent the email.
<emilian> good bye.
<jordi> bye!
<greg-g> Where can I export the information about the members of a team I am an admin of? This bug refers to that capability, but I can't find it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/39260
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 39260 in launchpad "Extract team members' email addresses" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<greg-g> (the last comment says I can export the info in rdf)
<kiko-afk> greg-g, give me a team URL
<kiko-afk> https://edge.launchpad.net/~registry/+rdf
<kiko-afk> greg-g, just tack on /+rdf to any team url.
<greg-g> kiko-afk: thanks
<thumper> hi kiko-afk
<alecwh> I want to delete a branch that we aren't going to use anymore, at https://code.launchpad.net/~phpns-team/phpns/devel . For some reason, there is no option for 'delete branch' anywhere. Can anyone help?
<alecwh> I want to delete a branch that we aren't going to use anymore, at https://code.launchpad.net/~phpns-team/phpns/devel . For some reason, there is no option for 'delete branch' anywhere. Can anyone help?
<thumper> alecwh: hi
<thumper> alecwh: branches are deletable with certain caveats
<thumper> alecwh: there has to be no subscribers
<thumper> alecwh: and not linked to bugs or blueprints
<alecwh> thumper: https://code.launchpad.net/~alecwh/phpns/devel
<alecwh> there are no subscribers now, I don't see any other caveats that would prevent deletion, do you?
<thumper> alecwh: no
<thumper> alecwh: what do you see in the actions on the left hand side?
<alecwh> thumper: nevermind, there is a delete option now. =)
<thumper> alecwh: the delete should be there
<thumper> alecwh: ah, good
<alecwh> thumper: yeah, thanks, appreciate your help!
<thumper> np
<alecwh> thumper: Is there any way to show a SVN repository in the "code" section?
<thumper> alecwh: you can request an import from SVN into a bazaar branch
<alecwh> would it do it automatically, or would I have to do it myself?
<thumper> alecwh: If you specify SVN details on the project right now it will trigger an import
<thumper> alecwh: in the near future there will be a separate way to request an import
 * thumper dashing out for while
<alecwh> ok, really fast, where can I request an import?
<thumper> alecwh: right now you enter the SVN details on the product series page
<alecwh> thumper: project series page? Sorry, I'm new to launchpad.
<thumper> alecwh: ok, which project?
<alecwh> the project is 'phpns'
<alecwh> http://launchpad.net/phpns
<thumper> alecwh: ok, so the main series for the phpns project is called trunk
<thumper> so the series page is  http://launchpad.net/phpns/trunk
<alecwh> thumper: that's actually not our SVN repository, that's a bazaar repo that we're going to abandon/delete.
<thumper> alecwh: on that page there is a link in the actions area called 'Edit source'
<thumper> alecwh: trunk is the main development focus series, and doesn't have anything to do with a bazaar repo
<alecwh> ok
<mwhudson_> oh good, sourceforge
<mwhudson_> imports from there usually work :)
<alecwh> actually, we're at gna.org
<thumper> gna?
<alecwh> http://gna.org
<thumper> alecwh: anyway, in the edit source page you can specify the SVN details
<alecwh> yes
<thumper> alecwh: then ask a question on the launchpad-bazaar project to request testing of the import
<alecwh> http://svn.gna.org/svn/phpns/trunk phpns
<alecwh> that's our current svn
<thumper> alecwh: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+addquestion
<ubotu> New bug: #173527 in rosetta "Untranslated string statistics are incorrect for some packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173527
<alecwh> in the edit source page
<alecwh> would I put http://svn.gna.org/svn/phpns/ ?
<thumper> Check the SVN radio button
<alecwh> Subversion, yes
<thumper> then paste the svn location into the Branch field next to it
<mwhudson> alecwh: put the address of the branch
<mwhudson> i.e. with trunk
<alecwh> http://svn.gna.org/svn/phpns/trunk
<alecwh> so, that?
<mwhudson> right
<alecwh> ok.
<thumper> mwhudson: howdy
<alecwh> ok, done.
<alecwh> Subversion:             http://svn.gna.org/svn/phpns/trunk                                        Import status:           Testing
<mwhudson> thumper: hello
<alecwh> now, I have to report a bug?
<alecwh> or ask a question
<mwhudson> alecwh: ask a question
<alecwh> ok
<mwhudson> i've started the import
<alecwh> What do I type in the question box?
<mwhudson> it can take anything from a few minutes to several days for the first import :)
<alecwh> summery*
<mwhudson> alecwh: "please let me know when the initial phphns import completes"
<alecwh> and in the description?
<mwhudson> alecwh: doesn't really matter
<mwhudson> alecwh: the person who will deal with the question is me, and i'll remember this conversation :)
<alecwh> cool. =)
<alecwh> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+question/19197
<mwhudson> alecwh: ta
<alecwh> ta?
<thumper> alecwh: short for thanks
<alecwh> oh. =D
<alecwh> Thanks a lot, I'll be in the IRC if I missed something you need, thanks again.
<ubotu> New bug: #173530 in rosetta "Obsolete strings at the top of exported files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173530
<alecwh> thumper: https://launchpad.net/phpns/trunk
<alecwh> It says: Online
<alecwh> Last imported:             six minutes ago     
<mwhudson> alecwh: yeah, it imported really quickly https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/phpns/trunk
<alecwh> =D
<alecwh> thanks a lot mwhudson.
<mwhudson> np
<mwhudson> time for bed
<ubotu> New bug: #173537 in rosetta "Failed imports, no notification about the reason" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173537
#launchpad 2008-11-24
<Hobbsee> cprov: erm, I think I have a bug for you...
<vadi2> What is the proper way to make a branch on a hosted bzr branch in LP?
<beuno> vadi2, sorry, what do you mean exactly?  get a branch from launchpad or create a new branch on launchpad?
<RAOF> vadi2: What do you mean?  "bzr branch lp:$project" will generally create a (local) branch of $project's trunk.  You can simply push this to launchpad after hacking on it with "bzr push lp:~yourlpnick/$project/branchname".
<vadi2> Create a new one on launchpad.
<beuno> vadi2, is this for a project that's already been created?
<beuno> if so
<vadi2> why is there a button to make one on lp though?
<beuno> bzr push lp:~username/project/branchname
<beuno> vadi2, you don't need to create one, it gets created automatically when you push
<vadi2> Alright.
<vadi2> It sort of worked.
<vadi2> It shows up on launchpad, but when I go to loggerhead, I get an error: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers/mudlet/pre-alpha/files
<vadi2> "The resource could not be found. "
<kiko> vadi2, give it 5 minutes
<vadi2> Okay
<beuno> actualy
<beuno> it's there now
<vadi2> excellent
<Hobbsee> morning kiko
<vadi2> Can Launchpad continually mirror an svn branch?
<mwhudson> vadi2: yes
<mwhudson> (well, every 6 hours by default, not "continually")
<vadi2> How can I set that up?
<vadi2> Oh sorry
<vadi2> I was misreading and thought the text implied can only mirror bzr
<mwhudson> ah
<mwhudson> the process for registering a svn import is different
<mwhudson> vadi2: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new
<vadi2> Is that one-time though?
<mwhudson> no
<james_w> I'm getting an oops on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/amd64/libgtkdatabox-0.9.0-1-dev/1:0.9.0.1-1ubuntu1
<james_w> linked from https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgtkdatabox/1:0.9.0.1-1ubuntu1/+build/793775
<james_w> OOPS-1059ED11
<james_w> does that suggest that the package is not published or something?
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down from 03:00 UTC until 04:00 UTC for a code update | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<mwhudson> james_w: traceback looks rather 404 ish
<Hobbsee> james_w: that'd be another LP bug.
<Hobbsee> james_w: those packages are in new, it seems.
<mwhudson> spm: that's in 38 minutes?
<james_w> ah, NEW, of course! :-)
<spm> mwhudson: yup - am v.busy atm :-)
<james_w> mwhudson: I should report a bug?
<thumper> vadi2: we've been meaning to reword the types, as import branches are actually foreign mirrors
<mwhudson> james_w: probably
<Hobbsee> james_w: there might already be one, but otherwise yes.
<james_w> done, thanks team
<vadi2> thumper: aye
 * Hobbsee scratches head at bzr
<thumper> Hobbsee: what's up?
<spm> thumper: is same problem as you had lasty week - branches not scaning
<Hobbsee> thumper: that, and i'm trying to figure out how one merges a branch.
<spm> crontabs are down for the rollout in 2 mins
<thumper> Hobbsee: in what way?
<Hobbsee> thumper: well, it says one branch for merge on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk, so i'd like to get that branch, merge it, check the diff, and upload it.
<Hobbsee> bah.  it's gone
<thumper> Hobbsee: the branch is ~laney/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev   as you can see if you click on it
<thumper> Hobbsee: so when LP is back up
<thumper> Hobbsee: you can go `bzr branch lp:~laney/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev`
 * Hobbsee found that much
<Hobbsee> ah, right.
<thumper> Hobbsee: merge it into your branch, and push that back to LP
<thumper> that's all she wrote
 * Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> so it is that easy
<thumper> the scanner should notice
<Hobbsee> she?
 * thumper fingers crossed
 * Hobbsee nods
<thumper> Hobbsee: figure of speach
<thumper> speech
<thumper> whatever
 * thumper goes outside
<Hobbsee> oh, right ;)
<Hobbsee> cya!
<javaJake> Is Launchpad supposed to be down right now?
<javaJake> I'm in EST (UTC+0500) so I was expecting to be down 8 AM tomorrow morning...
<javaJake> Wait, wait... hehe, I'm UTC-0500 :P
<javaJake> Goshdarnit, guess I will have to go to bed now. What a bummer. ;)
<Hobbsee> Apparent fail of conversion.  It's definetly 0300 UTC.
<spm> Getting the sums wrong - can empathise et al; but getting your own TZ out by 10 hours is impressive!
<Hobbsee> haha, yes
<remotec> grrr timezones
<Hobbsee> mrevell should presumably put in links to timeanddate.com in his "lp is going down" mails
<Hobbsee> just to cut timezone confusion
<remotec> what is the SSI timezone unit?
<spm> eh? minutes - effectively.
<jml> seconds
 * jml actually reads the question
<jml> dunno
<spm> I can just imagine someone saying they're in TZ +07:35:23 utc ;-)
 * wgrant wonders why the branch mirrors have to go down too.
<mwhudson> wgrant: database being frobbed
<mwhudson> wgrant: or did you mean something else?
<wgrant> mwhudson: Do the non-access-controlled HTTP mirrored branches depend on the database somehow?
<mwhudson> hm, no
<remotec> oh they did use UTC, guess that is best
<wgrant> remotec: We would be at mrevell's throat if he used anything else.
<mwhudson> guess we could use chatham islands or kiribati time if we really wanted to confuse people
<remotec> just when id gotten used to GTC +/-
<wgrant> mwhudson: UTC+-24 would be nice.
<remotec> err GMT hehe
<mib_bsb267> http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance < it shows "Quick tip: Subscribe to launchpad-users" whereas it should show and link to the launchpad-announce.. launchpad-users isn't an announcement list :)
<mib_bsb267> the weird thing is that the same tip is already added at the bottom of the maintenance announce
<spm> FYI ALL: LP should be back up and working
<spm> Phew *sneaks* into the 1hour outage with 38 seconds to go :-)
<jml> spm: /topic
<spm> jml: eventually.... :-)
<jml> ahh ok :)
<spm> I can type "iz back" faster than editing topics in X channels :-)
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
 * Hobbsee scratches head
<Hobbsee> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev/+merge/1603
<Hobbsee> how do i decline the ubuntu-dev part of that?
<Hobbsee> thumper: any idea?
<spm> Hobbsee: keeping in mind I have NFI about reviews - but haven't you only "voted" to deny? Wouldn't you change status to "denied" or something?
<Hobbsee> spm: hmmm.  *fiddles*
<Hobbsee> spm: I thought they'd be the same field.  That seems to have worked though, thanks!
<spm> that worked? Cool. I jave learnt something today. :-)
<Hobbsee> :)
<thumper> Hobbsee: there is a bug with claiming the team reviews right now.  I have a fix ready to land shortly
<Hobbsee> thumper: ah, cool.  I wasn't sure if i was just missing something, or if it was a bug.
<thumper> Hobbsee: yeah, bug
 * Hobbsee sighs.
<Hobbsee> well, part of the other bug is fixed.
<thumper> Hobbsee: well, I've just had the fix reviewed, and it should be in the landing queue within 10 minutes
<Hobbsee> guess i'll get to report it after all.
<Hobbsee> thumper: cool :)
<Hobbsee> thumper: wasn't meaning your bug, sorry - this is a soyuz bug
<thumper> oh, ok
<Hobbsee> was hoping it would turn out to be a mid-rollout heisenbug.
<al-maisan> Hello Hobbsee, what is the Soyuz bug about?
<Hobbsee> al-maisan: buildd admins can't seem to view some of the build queues, for machines that have built a private build.
<thumper> Hobbsee: actually I had my branches around the wrong way, the claim team review review fix landed just over 1.5 hours ago
<Hobbsee> eg https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/hooker/+history & https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/kohnen/+history but not https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/artigas/+history anymore, for some reason.
<al-maisan> Hobbsee: there was a bug fix relating to this area (private builds) only last week .. so, this might be a regression
<Hobbsee> al-maisan: likely.
<Hobbsee> al-maisan: however, mere mortals can.
 * al-maisan is not logged into launchpad but can view all 3 pages
<Hobbsee> not-logged-in people would fall into the category of "mere mortals", so that would be the expected result ;)
<al-maisan> after logging in I can still see the page for builder artigas but not the other 2
<Hobbsee> right, so you hit the same.
<al-maisan> I am getting a 503, forbidden
<al-maisan> hmm .. that's definitely a regression .. did you file a bug by any chance?
<Hobbsee> i haven't done so yet, as the rollout was only a few hours ago
<al-maisan> I would appreciate it if you would file one .. once bigjools comes on-line I can point him to it
<Hobbsee> You're probably hitting it due to one of your LP dev privedges
<al-maisan> I guess so
<Hobbsee> al-maisan: filed as https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/301541.  Are you a new soyuz guy?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 301541 in soyuz "REGRESSION: Build histories for buildds that have built private builds give a 403 for buildd-admins and above" [Undecided,New]
<al-maisan> Hobbsee: thank you very much indeed. Not quite sure how new I am :) I started in March of this year.
<Hobbsee> al-maisan: you're welcome.  In soyuz, or?
<al-maisan> Hobbsee: thank you .. that's very kind of you. Yes, I am part of the Soyuz team.
<Hobbsee> al-maisan: So can i hit you up for a bug fix?  ;)
<Hobbsee> well, i guess it's actually a "implement the other part of the feature"
<al-maisan> Hobbsee: I am one of the on-call code reviewers today .. but you can always try :)
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Hobbsee> oh, it was targetted for .12, not .11.
 * Hobbsee will wait to see if it gets done, then.
<al-maisan> Hobbsee: OK .. great.
<pygi> mrevell, poke
<mrevell> pygi: Hi
<pygi> mrevell, could I pm?
<mrevell> sure thing pygi
<Hobbsee> oh yay, now the spammer has even managed to find bugs on the release team lists, so spam them that way.
<pygi> Hobbsee, :)
<Hobbsee> heya pygi!
<pygi> heya Hobbsee, why don't you approve me at Linkedin? :D
<pygi> pretending you don't know me? :P
<Hobbsee> mrevell: have you considered linking to timeanddate.com when you write the announcements for the LP downtimes?  A number of people came in today going "why is LP down?" and such, thinking it was at a different time
<Hobbsee> pygi: erm, because i'm lazy, and i'm supposed to be studying for exams?  And if i actually spend time on linkedin, then i *really* should update my bio, and i've been avoiding that like the plague ;)
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Nice idea. Thanks. I shall do that in future announcements.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: cool :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: it has a fixed date & time thing which is particularly useful.
<mrevell> I've never really seen the point of LinkedIn. I'm on it but can't say I ever use it.
<pygi> Hobbsee, "supposed to" ... yea, I should do that too
<pygi> I have two exams tomorrow :p
<Hobbsee> eww
<pygi> accounting and math
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, it's a great idea and I dunno why I hadn't thought of it myself! Thanks :) Good luck with the exams, btw.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: thanks!
<oldman> hiya, having permanent vcs-imports failure for a sourceforge subversion repo
<thumper> oldman: ask a question on launchpad to track it
<oldman> keeps failing due to connection dropping, 'connection reset by peer'
<oldman> ok
<oldman> #52368 (fyi)
<oldman> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs/+question/52368
<wgrant> That's probably going to get missed.
<wgrant> I believe it should be on launchpad, not launchpad-cscvs.
<pygi> Hobbsee, sooo, who have you been bugging recently? :)
<Hobbsee> pygi: hm?  I've been tracking down a LP bug instead
<pygi> Hobbsee, hm, but that's not fun ...
<Hobbsee> heh, that's true
<pygi> Hobbsee, I tell you, bugging people is tons more fun
<pygi> :P
<Hobbsee> haha
<pygi> see, like me bugging you now :p
<pygi> stunning :p
 * Hobbsee goes back to studying
 * pygi rolls on the floor
<pygi> hey, that's rude :p
<pygi> evading people isn't fun, its just rude :p
<pygi> Hobbsee, oki, have fun studying then :)
<oldman> wgrant: thanks, moved to answers/launchpad
<zooko> Folks: I installed the xmlrpc plugin so that launchpad could access my trac.
<zooko> This morning I see exceptions in my trac log
<zooko>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/xmlrpclib.py", line 639, in dump_nil
<zooko>     raise TypeError, "cannot marshal None unless allow_none is enabled"
<kiko> zooko, hmmm, very interesting! gmb ping?
<gmb> Hmm.
<gmb> Stabbity.
<gmb> zooko: Hi. I have a horrible feeling about this but is there any more information than the traceback in the log?
 * zooko looks.
<zooko> 2008-11-24 05:28:29,421 Trac[main] WARNING: 403 Forbidden (XML_RPC privileges are required to perform this operation)
<zooko> 2008-11-24 05:28:36,717 Trac[web_ui] ERROR: cannot marshal None unless allow_none is enabled
 * gmb curses.
<gmb> zooko: What's your Trac instance's URL?
<zooko> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe
<kiko> that does look like a plugin issue though
<gmb> kiko: Yes. Though whether it's the plugin misbehaving by trying to marshal None or whether it's LP I don't yet know.
<gmb> But there should be something in the checkwatches logs.
<gmb> Hopefully.
<gmb> kiko: OOPS-1059CCW1888
 * gmb waits for ubottu 
 * gmb gives up on the dogbot, barks himself.
<kiko> oh, bug info is coming back None
<gmb> kiko: Yep. Looks like a plugin bug then. I'll try to reproduce it.
<gmb> zooko: Thanks for reporting this. I'll file a bug on the plugin and let you know when it's fixed.
<zooko> Thanks!
<Peng_> What version of bzr will LP 2.1.11 run?
<Peng_> So far it's still 1.7.1rc1..
<thekorn> hi, I've once again a API related question: why don't collections have a 'self_link' attribute?
<thekorn> and also: why are attributes of collections only there is they have a value?
<thekorn> for example collections with few elements don't have a next_collection_link
<kiko> hmmm, that's a question for leonardr in fact
<mars> flacoste, would you happen to know why collections don't have a self_link?
<flacoste> mars: hmm, that' s surprising to me
<flacoste> i'm sure they have
<flacoste> a
<flacoste> attribute
<mars> thekorn, which collection were you looking at?
<flacoste> the JSON representation has
<flacoste> it's possible it's not exposed in the collection python API
<flacoste> that woudl be an omission, not a conscious decision
<flacoste> next_collection_url is only present if there is more data to fetch
<thekorn> mars: bug_task collections and bug_subscriptions#
<mars> flacoste, ^
<flacoste> thekorn: you are using the python API?
<thekorn> flacoste: but why are this attributes not NULL or something for smaller collections
<thekorn> flacoste: yes
<flacoste> thekorn: what do you not NULL?
<flacoste> oh
<flacoste> i think i understand
<flacoste> you want an undef
<flacoste> err, None
<flacoste> and now, the attribute is just missgin (AttributeError)
<thekorn> flacoste: correct, this breaks the introspection feature of launchpadlib
<flacoste> thekorn: these are bugs in launchpadlib, file new ones please
<thekorn> ok, will do
<thekorn> thanks
* mars changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: mars
<sinzui> bac: can you join #launchpad. I think you timed out
<afflux> I'm afraid this question was raised some tmes before, but: I have a package in my ppa, say, it's called abc. The intrepid series has version 1, the jaunty series has version 2. Is it possible to use the "copy packages" features to copy the sources for version 2 to intrepid, so I end up having version 2 built once for intrepid and once for jaunty?
<mars> bigjools or cprov, ^ ?
<cprov> afflux: you can't rebuild the same source for two distroseries within the same repository.
<afflux> (the way I tried was to copy version 2 to "this ppa", destination series "intrepid", with "rebuild the copied sources". This fails with "The following source cannot be copied: abc 2 in jaunty (same version already has published binaries in the destination archive")
<cjwatson> afflux: no, because there's only one pool in your PPA for all releases, so the two builds would have to share filenames
<afflux> uh I see.
<cjwatson> afflux: you have to use a different version number
 * mars thinks cprov must have an alert set up for 'ppa' in this channel
<cprov> mars: apparently cjwatson has it too ;)
<cjwatson> nah, just happened to see this
<bigjools> guys, stop saying PPA! :)
<PPA> Hi everybody!
 * PPA waves
<mars> cjwatson, ping just notice an IRC message from this weekend about https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/libx86/1.1+ds1-2
<mars> cjwatson, the jaunty/ARM build is failing, bigjools says the source needs fixing
<bigjools> PPA: Sppads!
<PPA> Â¯\(Â°_o)/Â¯
<mars> herb, weekend cleanup, Hobbsee asked kiko to kill ~test12345.  Would you be able to do that?
<herb> mars: can do.  give me a few minutes
<mars> herb, well, maybe wait until she says that she still wants it dead.
<mars> she could have a test in-progress
<mars> wouldn't want to break it
<cjwatson> mars: the question was whether the armel buildds were properly honouring Packages-arch-specific; however, Packages-arch-specific doesn't exclude libx86 from building on armel
<cjwatson> mars: so not something the Launchpad team needs to be concerned with
<cjwatson> mars: thanks for checking, we'll resolve it one way or the other at leisure
<mars> cjwatson, ah, thanks for the clarification
<danilo[home]_> beuno: hi, I have problems connecting to irc.canonical.com, is call in progress?
<beuno> danilo[home]_, yes
<danilo[home]_> beuno: I'll try to join in
<needauthorizatio> any satellites been launched recently from this launchpad??
<needauthorizatio> :P
<kiko-afk> many
<needauthorizatio> afk?
<needauthorizatio> :P
<kiko-afk> telekinesis
 * paolettopn_zzz e' away (ciao a tutti!)
<NCommander> cprov, ping
<cprov> NCommander: pong
<NCommander> hey bac_fud
<mars> back
<NCommander> wb mars
<mars> wb?
<NCommander> welcome back
<mars> ah, thanks! :)
<mwhudson> dear sf, please reactivate the 'don't suck
<mwhudson> ' feature on your svn servers
<NCommander> hehe
<cjwatson> mwhudson: that reminds me, what's the schedule for cscvs changes becoming usable? is it only together with LP releases?
<cjwatson> mwhudson: wondering when I should be requesting an openssh import
<mwhudson> cjwatson: oh right, well there was a rollout yesterday...
<cjwatson> wasn't sure if it included the :ext: patch since that was only committed on the 20th or something
<mwhudson> indeed, just asking the OSAs
<cjwatson> ta
<mwhudson> cjwatson: request away
<cody-somerville> Can someone modify the registrant of xfce project to xubuntu-team?
<cody-somerville> and set it as a super-project please
<mars> cody-somerville, normally kiko-afk handles the super-team requests.  Would you be able to file a question for your request?  Then I can bug him about it ;)
<cjwatson> mwhudson: requested, thanks
<cjwatson> (~vcs-imports/openssh/main)
<cody-somerville> mars, can you do the former for now?
<mwhudson> approved, although i wonder if i'll have to log in to the slaves to accept the ssh keys...
<mars> cody-somerville, I'll check.
<cjwatson> I think my patch arranged for that not to be the case
<cjwatson> hmm, perhaps not?
<cjwatson> stupid of me if so
<mvo> is something wrong with code.launchpad.net? I pushed https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mvo/apt/prevent-replay-attacks some time ago but its not available yet it seems
<beuno> mvo, it seems that the branch didn't get pushed properly
<beuno> LP is reporting a problem on there
<beuno> "
<beuno> "User timeout caused connection failure.
<beuno> "
<mvo> beuno: hm, bzr push tells me nothing to push
<beuno> ah
<mvo> "No new revisions to push."
 * beuno pokes mwhudson
<beuno> mvo, try push --overwrite
<beuno> and if that doesn't work
<beuno> delete the branch and try pushing again
<mwhudson> um
<mwhudson> push --overwrite won't make any difference
<mwhudson> mvo: how big is the branch?  (du -sh .bzr locally)
<mvo> mwhudson: 28mb
<mwhudson> !?
<mvo> mwhudson: ?
<mwhudson> mvo: we've sometimes seen that error with really huge branches
<mvo> mwhudson: is 28mb huge?
<mwhudson> with a 28 meg branch, something funky is going on
<mwhudson> mvo: no, a gig is huge
<mvo> good
<mwhudson> mvo: what format is it?
<mvo> pack-0.92
<mvo> but I'm trying a bzr upgrade on the remote side now
<mvo> (bzr upgrade bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/apt/prevent-replay-attacks)
<mwhudson> looks like knits to me
<mvo> the remote side? very possible that i pushed it earlier
<mvo> as knit
<mwhudson> mvo: anyway, it will likely be much quicker to upgrade locally, delete the branch and push again
<mvo> how do I delete the remote branch?
<mwhudson> mvo: little read icon next to the heading
<mvo> thanks, checking
<mwhudson> (most invisible icon on launchpad, that one)
<mvo> mwhudson: thanks, I have it and I'm pushing now (*fingerscrossed*)
<mvo> mwhudson: thanks, that looks good now, push finished without problem, when will it become available via http?
<alexei> hi, how do I select distribution to build PPA packages? I am using intrepid, the newly created PPA has jounty in +
<mwhudson> mvo: in a minute or so, i hope
<mwhudson> mvo: actually, it's probably available via http already
<alexei> *has jaunty/main in apt-get url
<mvo> cool
<mvo> thanks mwhudson, all looks good now :)
<cprov> alexei: the page widget doesn't control for which distroseries the PPA can build, it's just a reference for users. The build target is specified by the uploaded source (debian/changelog)
<mwhudson> mvo: yeah, so the lesson here is that bzr's support for knits is bitrotting i guess :(
<mvo> mwhudson: thanks, I would be cool to have a button the UI "upgrade my branch to latest format" or something, upgrades bzr upgrade is a bit on the slow side
<mwhudson> mvo: no kidding
<mwhudson> mvo: there is a bug for that, it requires some new infrastructure though
<mwhudson> (which is finally falling into place, so maybe by xmas??)
<mwhudson> hm, probably not actually
<mwhudson> but Soon
<mvo> cool, thanks
<mwhudson> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/254135
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 254135 in launchpad-bazaar "Add UI to upgrade a hosted bzr branch" [Medium,Triaged]
<alexei> cprov: oops, and I'taken Jaunty sources, patched and compiled on my Intrepid.
<mwhudson> mvo: of course, you and i can run the upgrade process from rookery, which goes a bit faster :)
<alexei> cprov: is it enough if I change/add an entry like "qt4-x11 (4.4.3-1ubuntu3) jaunty; urgency=low" but referring to Intrepid again?
<cprov> alexei: yes, s/jaunty/intrepid, but tweak the version otherwise you won't have an upgrade path.
<alexei> There is an option to "copy" sources from one build environment to another. But I get this: "The following source cannot be copied: qt4-x11 4.4.3-1ubuntu3 in jaunty (same version already building in the destination archive for Jaunty)"
<alexei> am I right that the version number and the package name output by debuild is defined by the topmost entry in changelog? I am new to dev-side of ubuntu.
<mwhudson> alexei: the version number certainly comes from there
<mwhudson> i think the binary package names come from the control file though
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
<cyhawk> hi! how can i edit the pages on help.launchpad.net?
<cyhawk> on the first page there is a link to Code/FindAndDownloading, but the page is actually named Code/FindingAndDownloading
<mwhudson> cyhawk: there should be a 'login' link somewhere
<mars> hi cyhawk
<cyhawk> yeah, i've logged in, but can't find an edit link
<mars> there's a 'Login /register' link in the upper-right corner of the wiki page
<mars> cyhawk, if it's the FrontPage, then a helpwiki admin will have to fix it
<mwhudson> some pages may be locked, i guess
<cyhawk> oh, okay
<mars> cyhawk, btw, thanks for the info, I'll fix it now
<cyhawk> oh, now i see the edit link on a different page
<cyhawk> thanks!
<mars> done
<alexei> I get this from debuild->lintian: "E: qt4-x11_4.4.3-1~am1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file intrepid". What is wrong with this name?
<vvinet> are you on intrepid?
<alexei> yes, but the sources come from jaunty. I added changelog entry on top with "intrepid" for distribution name. Instances of "jaunty" left unchanged. Actually debuild proceeds from that point till the end.
<vvinet> eh I dunno then sorry :)
<vvinet> let's hope someone else knows ;)
<kmouly> How does launchpad calculate similar bugs during the bug submission process?
<mwhudson> kmouly: roughly the same way that searching for bugs work
<kmouly> mwhudson: so it blindly lists the top n search results?
<mwhudson> kmouly: what else could it do?
<edrex> how long before a PPA upload usually gets processed?
<edrex> not built, just accepted/rejected
<edrex> would make a good faq item
<cjwatson> alexei: sounds like you have an old lintian, perhaps; but in any case you can ignore that. lintian's output is meant to be read by humans and sometimes it makes sense to ignore some of it when you know better.
<alexei> edrex: very fast with me, < 10 sec. But I dinnt upload .orig.tgz
<edrex> alexei: for this I did. I think something's wrong, since I never got a response since I did it a week ago.
<edrex> i bumped the -version up in debian/changelog and tried again, dput works but no response after 20 mins
<alexei> cjwatson: yes it seems that the package was accepted by launchpad. Now in build. I am on plain inrepid though.
<alexei> edrex: check the https://launchpad.net/~YOURNICKNAMEHERE/+archive page
<edrex> alexei: nothing https://launchpad.net/~ericdrex/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<edrex> strange the wiki doesn't mention this as a possible outcome
<alexei> edrex: check the content in ~/.dput.cf maybe?
<edrex> alexei: it's just your basic. how does dput authenticate? it uses anonymous ftp, strange
<cjwatson> check that you GPG-signed the package properly
<edrex> cjwatson: yes, dput likes it gpg: Good signature from "Eric Drechsel...
<edrex> oh, does authentication require that your launchpad email is the same as for your gpg key? that must be how uploads are authenticated. but yes, it's the same
<cjwatson> it shouldn't - it requires you to have told Launchpad about your GPG public key
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editpgpkeys
<edrex> oh!
<edrex> that must be the problem
<cjwatson> see https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA, "Before you create and use your PPA" ...
<cjwatson> alexei: (/people/+me is a useful trick to avoid having to give out /~YOURNICKNAMEHERE URLs when helping people)
<edrex> cjwatson: thanks, missed that
<alexei> cjwatson: I am since 4 hours on launchpad, cannot help much. Thanks anyway.
<papacanaria> hi!
<kenneth> I'm having a problem subscribing to bugs: They aren't showing up on my related bugs listing
<kenneth> ie https://bugs.launchpad.net/~kennethfinnegan2007 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/27323
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 27323 in hal "provide a way to disable drive polling" [Low,Fix released]
* mars changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<edrex> that's more like it: https://launchpad.net/~ericdrex/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<edrex> cjwatson: thanks
#launchpad 2008-11-25
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> how do you delete a branch
<mwhudson> meoblast001: little red icon next to the heading on the branch page
<meoblast001> thanx
<meoblast001> something went wrong
<meoblast001> someone needs to check the bzr server... it must be down
<Ursinha> jml, ^
<jml> meoblast001: what makes you say that?
<meoblast001> it wont work
<jml> meoblast001: I see.
<spm> works for me... ?
<meoblast001> sorry
<meoblast001> im multitasking
<jml> meoblast001: the bazaar server isn't down, so maybe you could give us more info on the error message?
<meoblast001> i'll ask again later when im not doing something else important lol
 * jml lunch
<meoblast001> ssh: connect to host launchpad.net port 22: Connection timed out
<beuno> meoblast001, I'm sure you mean:  sftp bazaar.launchpad.net
<meoblast001> i always used bzr+ssh://
<meoblast001> and it worked
<beuno> sure, and it should still work now
<meoblast001> bzr push bzr+ssh://meoblast@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysticgalaxies/mpackguy/devel --use-existing-dir
<meoblast001> and that failed
<cjwatson> meoblast001: but the error message indicates you're using launchpad.net rather than bazaar.launchpad.net
<meoblast001> now it says no new revisions t push
<meoblast001> but the branch is empty
<beuno> meoblast001, and you're sure it's not empty?
<beuno> try locally:  bzr log
<meoblast001> i typed bzr init
<spm> meoblast001: can you debug if you have a working bzr+ssh connection. do a simple branch of .. well any small project?
<meoblast001> and then i typed bzr ci and it said it was up to date
<meoblast001> the log says nothing
<beuno> meoblast001, you have to add files,  "bzr add"
<beuno> right, so if the log says nothing, then the branch really is empty
<meoblast001> ok
<meoblast001> thanx
<NCommander> beuno, can you increase space in a PPA?
<spm> NCommander: I can if you use the magic word? :-P
<NCommander> now?
 * NCommander is gunned down
<NCommander> Please :-)
<spm> Got in in one! ;-)
<cjwatson> mwhudson,rockstar: yay, openssh imported successfully. Thanks!
<rockstar> cjwatson, huh.  I didn't know we had rolled it out already.
<cjwatson> 19:44 <mwhudson> cjwatson: request away
<cjwatson> (when I asked whether I was OK to re-request the import yet)
<mwhudson> cjwatson: awesome
<mrooney> Is it possible to change the project of a blueprint?
<mrooney> Argh, I tried to create a new blueprint instead
<mrooney> But now it won't be let set the spec URL because it "is already registered by another blueprint"
<kenneth> I'm having a problem subscribing to bugs: They aren't showing up on my related bugs listing  ie https://bugs.launchpad.net/~kennethfinnegan2007 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/27323
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 27323 in hal "provide a way to disable drive polling" [Low,Fix released]
<kenneth> Does anyone know if there is a trick to it or should I just file a bug report
<mwhudson> kenneth: it's because it's Fix Released i think
<wgrant> kenneth: It's closed (Fix Released, Invalid and Won't Fix are the closed statuses), so won't appear in bug lists by default.
<wgrant> kenneth: You can perform an advanced search and select all of the statuses to see it.
<kenneth> look at that. Thanks, that makes a lot of sense
<wgrant> Bug #5977
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 5977 in malone "Person Bugs pages seem to be incomplete" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5977
<kenneth> that's it.  The advanced search is just what I wanted too. Makes sense when you have more than 5 bugs your interested in.  Thanks guys!
<Hobbsee> mars: I got it killed previously, thanks anyway.
<Hobbsee> mars: you can kill it again, and I can rescurrect it again ;)
<NCommander> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey there NCommander!
<NCommander> how goes it?
<Hobbsee> OK.   done one exam
<NCommander> How many left?
<Hobbsee> 2
<NCommander> Hobbsee, not bad
<wgrant> Slacker!
<wgrant> cprov: I like the sound of r7329. Does this mean PPA signing is actually going to happen this release?
<NCommander> hey lamont
<pro-rsoft> hi guys, what does "Triaged" mean?
<wgrant> pro-rsoft: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/Statuses
<pro-rsoft> thanks! never seen that page before
* absoludity changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - absoludity
 * wgrant hasn't seen absoludity around these parts before.
<absoludity> Hi wgrant... yes, I'm pretty new around here (4 weeks) :)
<wgrant> Yep.
* noodles_20 changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: - noodles_20
<sodoku> can anybody please confirm, that the openoffice3 packages for intrepid have been removed from the ppa?
<bigjools> why don't you look yourself?
<sodoku> bigjools: there are not there, i would like to have an official statement
<bigjools> about what?
<sodoku> bigjools: why there are not there. being reuplaoded? removed on intent, or do i do something wrong
<bigjools> sodoku: I need some context.  What PPA?
<sodoku> bigjools: sorry, this ppa https://launchpad.net/~openoffice-pkgs/+archive
<bigjools> sodoku: well I suggest you contact the PPA owner
<Hobbsee> greetings, bigjools
<sodoku> bigjools: thanks, i will, i thought maybe someone here would know
<bigjools> sodoku: sorry I can't help more
<bigjools> Hobbsee: hello
<sodoku> bigjools: no problem, thanks though
<fballem> hello
<fballem> good bye for now
<Ursinha> entÃ£o tÃ¡
<lamont> hey NCommander
<cyhawk> hi! i've committed a few html files in my branch (documentation). browsing the source code on launchpad the html can be seen, but not rendered as a web page, but as its source. is there a way to see it online as a web page? i would like to link to it
<noodles_20> Hi cyhawk, AFAIK, launchpad only supports browsing the source code, not rendering it.
<noodles_20> Hi cyhawk, AFAIK, launchpad only supports browsing the source code, not rendering it.
<cyhawk> too bad, it would be great to be able to see the latest documentation online
<cyhawk> thanks anyway!
<fballem_> hello
<noodles_20> hi fballem_ :)
<fballem_> oh good, I finally got this working!
<fballem_> am I in the Launchpad chat?
<noodles_20> Well done!
<noodles_20> You are indeed... btw: it was me who answered your email :)
<fballem_> excellent, thank you
<noodles_20> You're welcome.
<noodles_20> Have you had a chance to check out the video tutorials? Or is that next on your list...
<fballem_> I've started on the videos. Just one suggestion, there should be a website with either a transcript or at least the commands that he is entering. He goes really fast
<noodles_20> fballem_, Yes, I used the pause button a lot when watching them...
<noodles_20> fballem_, also note: you can watch the high-resolution version...
<noodles_20> it's a lot easier to read.
<fballem_> and how do I do that
<noodles_20> There's a link just below the video in YouTube...
<fballem_> I'll check that out later.
<noodles_20> Something like "watch this video in high resolution".
<fballem_> If I understood the rest of your reply, you're suggesting that I should probably just keep the source on my local drive and publish the packages in Launchpad. Have I got that right?
<noodles_20> Yes, if the only changes you are doing at the moment are:
<noodles_20> 1) changing the icon
<noodles_20> 2) creating a debian package from the source
<noodles_20> Then yes. It might be a good way to start...
<fballem_> Those are the only changes that I'm doing. I gather from other posters on a thread that there are some issues with the icons not matching up with gnome/ubuntu standards. Others may want to join in the project to solve that problem.
<noodles_20> That's great that they want to join in and help!
<fballem_> another question - is it possible to use Pigin for IRC?
<noodles_20> Yes it is.
<noodles_20> The main reason I recommended XChat was that I could find a good tutorial for setting it up...
<noodles_20> But I couldn't find anything similar for using Pidgin with IRC.
<fballem_> didn't need the tutorial.
<noodles_20> Great!
<noodles_20> Basically, XChat is a lot better if you start joining multiple channels etc., or want to use advanced options like being notified when a certain word is mentioned...
<fballem_> I did try Pigin, but I couldn't get it to work. It kept nattering about needing to do /msg .....
<noodles_20> Aha.
<fballem_> that sounds encouraging ... like you know what the problem was and how to fix it.
<noodles_20> ? the problem with Pidgin? no, I don't know what the problem was...
<noodles_20> Usually /msg is used for sending a private message in IRC... but you shouldn't have needed it to chat on a channel publicly with Pidgen...
<fballem_> rats. Oh well, this is working, it ain't broke, I ain't going to fix it.
<noodles_20> Yep.
<fballem_> do you troll this site looking for newbies?
<noodles_20> No, I'm on "Community Help Rotation" today:
<noodles_20> fballem_, https://help.launchpad.net/HelpRotation
<fballem_> That must be fun. Can you do this on your day job? I'm working from home to-day, so I do get a chance to use my personal PC once in a while
<fballem_> should I be able to do something by clicking on the link?
<noodles_20> fballem_, :), yeah, I know what you mean...
<noodles_20> fballem_, if you right-click, it should give you an option...
<fballem_> that was easy.
<fballem_> Do I need to do anything else to make sure that I can easily return to here
<fballem_> and how do I get rid of the underscore after my name?
<noodles_20> one tic
<noodles_20> The reason the underscore is there is because apparently someone else is also on freenode with the nick fballem
<noodles_20> That said, that could actually be you from Pidgin?
<fballem_> probably an earlier attempt on my part
<noodles_20> You can change your nick by typing /nick new-nick
<fballem_> it's thinking about it
<fballem_> as in /nick fballem
<noodles_20> The tutorial I mentioned has instructions about how to setup XChat so you will automatically join this channel next time you run it.
<noodles_20> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XChatHowto
<noodles_20> Yes that's correct, but /msg needs to be the first thing on the line...
<fballem_> so /msg /nick fballem
<noodles_20> Sorry... no /msg, my fault...
<noodles_20> Just: /nick fballem
<noodles_20> It will probably tell you that someone else is already using that name...
<fballem_> Ah well, I'll read the tutorial. In the meantime, I'm going to grab some lunch. Nice chatting with you and thanks again for the care in the e-mail.
<noodles_20> No probs. Hope you get your package up!
<fballem_> ciau
<soren> I'm curious: Why do the PPA buildd's bother to remove the installed packages again? Aren't the entire chroot (or domU or whatever) blown away immediately afterwards?
<bigjools> soren: I guess nobody thought about it before
<bigjools> soren: can you file a bug!
<soren> bigjools: I'll do that in a bit.
<splodge> Has anyone come across the following error on branching: "Supplied history does not follow left-hand parents" and know how to fix it?
<splodge> This is on using "bzr branch".
<noodles_20> splodge, might be worth asking on #bzr? I've not seen it before myself...
<splodge> Ok, yeh you're probably right actually. For some reason
<splodge> I thought to come here first because there are some inconsistencies on the branch's page on lp.
<splodge> The Recent Revisions list shows an incorrect recent revision (and links incorrectly). The most recent revision is 16, but it shows 6.
<noodles_20> splodge, just found this: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/287286
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 287286 in bzr "crash: supplied history does not follow left-hand parents" [Undecided,New]
<noodles_20> Talks about the "Screwed up history bug"... sounds like a possibility..
<splodge> I think that's it. I've come across a few of these but no solution yet.
<splodge> And I ideally don't want to lose the history (short as it is atm), but merging into a new branch doesn't work.
<noodles_20> Nor how to avoid it in the future...
<splodge> Hm anyway, thanks. I'll go ask in #bzr, see if I can turn anything up.
<splodge> While I'm here tho, can some lp admin here delete a branch for me?
<noodles_20> I just asked in bzr... (I'm interested my self :) ).
<noodles_20> One tic..
<splodge> While trying to fix it with merging I created and pushed a branch but it refuses to be deleted now -- dying with an "Oops" page.
<noodles_20> ew.
<noodles_20> ok, jam just came in with something he thinks should fix it...
<noodles_20> Pasting his response: noodles_20: 'bzr reconcile' fixes it (albeit it also tries to fix a bunch of other stuff at the same time). I think you can also "bzr push --overwrite ." to have the local branch clean itself up. Though it also sounds like it is an older format branch, so "bzr upgrade" may be recommended.
<splodge> ok, done the reconcile and looks promising: "Fixing last revision info 9 => 16" (which is expected as lp currently displays 9 instead of 16 as the most recent revision (tho All Revisions shows all correctly).
<noodles_20> Great!
<splodge> Can't push to lp atm however, is it currently down?
<noodles_20> Yes... well, not exactly...
<splodge> For the record, upgrade wasn't necessary: "bzr: ERROR: The branch format Bazaar-NG meta directory, format 1 is already at the most recent format."
<noodles_20> but any page that is anything to do with PPAs currently seems to be timing out... so best to wait.
<splodge> I will do. Thanks for the help, we'll see how it goes from here :)
<noodles_20> Yep. No probs.
<bigjools> noodles_20: not all PPAs, just one :)
<noodles_20> ah... my mistake :)
<splodge> Ok, just for fyi, I've just been through the motions (pushing, branching etc and checking the details for the branch on lp) and everything looks ok now; no problems.
<splodge> Thanks again.
<noodles_20> splodge, Glad to hear it :)
* noodles_20 changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<emorris> hi, how do you add an extra affected package in a bug report?
<bigjools> emorris: click on "also affects distribution"
<emorris> bigjools: fair enough. i thought that would have just allowed you to choose a different distribution, but hey.
<bigjools> the link text is a bit short, you're right
<b231> hi, I have a bzr repository on launchpad and want to give another launchpad user access to this branch. How to i do that?
<mwhudson> b231: create a team, make yourself and the other user members of it, assign the branch to the team
<b231> mwhudson: ah ! thanks
<b231> mwhudson: sry i didn't find. where can I create a team?
<beuno> b231, https://launchpad.dev/people/+newteam
<beuno> b231, I'm curious. Where did you look for it?
<mthaddon> beuno, s/dev/net/
<beuno> uhm
<Ursinha> b231, on the startpage, you should see "People and teams"
<beuno> yes :)
<beuno> b231, https://launchpad.net/people/+newteam
<beuno> thanks mthaddon
<Ursinha> b231, clicking on it, you'll see "Register new team" on your right side
 * beuno doesn't even know where he is anymore
<b231> ok :)
<mwhudson> beuno: that's because you're at "home", i can see why this might be confusing
<Ursinha> lol
<b231> when i go on my profile site i didn't have a link to create a new team
<beuno> mwhudson, not only that, I have launchpad developers here. That just made the confusion even worst
<b231> for my logic a link should be on the profile site but anyway thanks :)
<NCommander> spm, around?
<spm> NCommander: yup - but about to do some funky server side stuff - so a tad busy :-)
<NCommander> ah
<spm> wassup?
<Robb_M> Am i supposed to be able to see another users OpenID link in their profile?
<Ursinha> Robb_M, don't think so
 * Robb_M just thinks its a bit "silly" to show a link that wouldnt be usable to someone other than the intended user....almost like saying "neener neener heres a key to my car..." and holding the key 5 ft above a users head..then pulling it up when they try to jump.
<Ursinha> Robb_M, why? can you see others openid urls?
<Robb_M> yes Ursinha
<Ursinha> Robb_M, what's your username in LP?
<Robb_M> my username on LP is r.munson
<Ursinha> Robb_M, well, now that the openid url is the same as your lp homepage, I think that's no big deal having it there
<Ursinha> but it's kinda pointless somehow
<Robb_M> Ursinha:yeah...i thought about that.
<Ursinha> beuno, your little two cents, please? :)
<Robb_M> Ursinha:im not saying its not a bad thought....just...i dont think it was well thought out is all...not that i can do much help.
<Robb_M> bbiaf..maybe.
#launchpad 2008-11-26
<jamesh> jml: did you see my comment about maybe making testresources handle resources that don't know about dirty?
<jml> jamesh: I saw your comment, but I haven't been able to bring myself to do anything technical after hours this week
<jamesh> jml: that's fine.  Was more interested in whether it sounded like a good idea or not
<jml> jamesh: cool. I look forward to getting around to it :)
<Bitfish> uhm, how do i contact the Launchpad staff? =[
<thumper> Bitfish: here
<thumper> Bitfish: just ask questions, there are many Launchpad devs in this channel
<Bitfish> you are a member of the launchpad staff? can i PM you? :s
<thumper> if you like
<Bitfish> okay
<ceefour> Hi..
<ceefour> Where can I get help regarding VS imports?
<ceefour> VCS imports
<mwhudson> ceefour: from me, but i'm going to bed now
<ceefour> hi Michael...
<ceefour> ah ...
<mwhudson> ceefour: ask a question at answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar ?
<ceefour> thanks Michael
<soren> Where do bugs about launchpad's mailing list stuff go?
<Hobbsee> i don't think it has a specific area.  Probably just file it under 'launchpad'
<beuno> soren, "launchpad-registry" project would be the correct place
<beuno> but if you file it to "launchpad", it'll be moved over as well, so no big deal
<soren> beuno: Well, I'm really looking for an existing bug, so.. :) Thanks.
<beuno> soren, oh, so either launchpad-registry, or, launchpad-project to search in all of them
<soren> beuno: thanks.
* cprov changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: cprov
<Dvyjones> How often is the SSH keys updated?
<beuno> Dvyjones, instantly
<mahfouz> why is there no RSS for https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<mahfouz> anybody in?
<kiko_> mahfouz, I think there's a bug for that
<mahfouz> oh
<mahfouz> let me check
<cprov> mahfouz: have you found it ?
<meoblast001> hi
<mahfouz> actually, no just some other rss bugs
<mahfouz> not any one particular for answers page
<meoblast001> is there a bot i can download for my IRC network that detects revisions on code and tells the revision info to the channels its iin?
<cprov> meoblast001: I don't know about anyone, but with bzrlib it shouldn't be that hard.
<meoblast001> anyone?
<meoblast001> Alientrap has a bot called CIA-1
<meoblast001> heres an example of what it does
<meoblast001> <CIA-1> nexuiz: div0 * r5109 /trunk/data/qcsrc/server/race.qc: fix obvious bug in race player soritng. hopefully this fixes the pole positions.
<cprov> mahfouz: there is no request specifically for what you want (Feeds for question facet in a given context). Please, file a bug on launchpad product.
<mahfouz> well, there was a bug about adding more rss support and I added my request to that one
<mahfouz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/openlibrary/+bug/126421
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 126421 in openlibrary "create RSS feeds for user contributions" [High,New]
<mahfouz> yes
<mahfouz> but it's not directly about answers.ubuntu
<mahfouz> answers.launchpad I mean
<mahfouz> oh that was the bot :)
<mahfouz> do you think I should file an extra bug?
<mahfouz> ah, that one is for rss for "open library"
<mahfouz> i will file a separate one
<mahfouz> here it is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/302579
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 302579 in malone "add rss feed for answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu" [Undecided,New]
<mahfouz> feel free to add your comments
<cprov> mahfouz: thank you.
<chrisccoulson> ping mthaddon_
<mthaddon_> chrisccoulson, hi
<chrisccoulson> sorry to have to pester you. you responded in lp answers earlier about a user spamming, and you said that his account had been deactivated
<chrisccoulson> unfortunately, he re-registered
<chrisccoulson> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~maurizio-live
<chrisccoulson> more spam....
<mthaddon> chrisccoulson, yes, it was - he re-registered - we're currently looking into ways around this, but the problem we have at the moment is lack of spam management in LP
<chrisccoulson> :(
<chrisccoulson> is there a way of easily closing his bug reports?
<chrisccoulson> without having to go through them all
<mthaddon> chrisccoulson, unfortunately not (still waiting for a way of doing this from the developers)
<chrisccoulson> thanks. i'll close them if you like
<mthaddon> I don't know if there's a way of removing/closing bugs is there?
<chrisccoulson> i can close them as invalid, which is the usual way of closing non-bugs. it doesn't remove them, but hides them from all default searches
<jml> does marking as duplicate combine the "me too" data?
<beuno> jml, no, but it will soon-ish
<jml> beuno: cool.
<paolettopn> Vado via alle Wed Nov 26 22:51:30... ci si rivede alle prossime!
 * paolettopn e' away (ciao a tutti!)
<bigjools> dsf
<Hobbsee> mthaddon: have you managed to fix the bugs about being able to reregister a locked account?
<Hobbsee> (seeing as a workaround was found on the weekend)
<mthaddon> Hobbsee, I'm not sure I follow - I don't typically fix bugs, not being a developer - which one(s) are you thinking of?
<Hobbsee> mthaddon: oh, I thought you were, sorry.
<mthaddon> Hobbsee, no, just a humble sysadmin :)
<Hobbsee> mthaddon: if you can see the private bug, you'll see documented what we found on the weekend about it
<mthaddon> Hobbsee, you have a bug number?
<Hobbsee> (about how he's being able to reactivate a locked account, and a few other related bugs)
<Hobbsee> mthaddon: no, i'm not subscribed to it, as i'm not an employee.  spm will have it, though.
<mthaddon> ok, thx
 * Hobbsee would like to be subscribed to it, though, so she can watch the progress on it
<mthaddon> Hobbsee, btw, we sysadmins are as keen if not keener than anyone on seeing those bugs fixed, as we have to deal with the fallout :)
<Hobbsee> mthaddon: heh, indeed!
<spm> mthaddon: Bug 301720
<ubottu> Bug 301720 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/301720 is private
<mthaddon> thx spm
 * Hobbsee waves to spm
<spm> mthaddon: fwiw is related to: Bug 49676
<ubottu> Bug 49676 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/49676 is private
<spm> hey Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> spm: how goes it?
<mthaddon> right
<spm> Hobbsee: *thursday*. Nuff said. :-)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> well, you can do my exam on friday, just for kicks, if you like?
<spm> pardon the french but: bugger that. Did 4 years of uni exams. Been there. Done that. Thanks but no thanks. :-)
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<jml> Hobbsee: don't you have to show ID?
<Hobbsee> jml: errr.  That's a point.  I'm not convinced how far they check it, though.
<jml> Hobbsee: it would take a very liberal minded person to believe that spm's name is Sarah.
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> point taken
<spm> jml: ! Who told you? My secret is out!!!!! I'm ... outed?
<jml> :D
#launchpad 2008-11-27
* cprov changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<Rocket2DMn> our friend rutadeevacuacion@msn.com has been back spamming
<applesauce> is that like the back stroke?
<wgrant> spm: Please kill maurizio-live again.
<wgrant> Can you not do the opposite of staging, and blackhole messages to those email addresses?
<spm> done
<wgrant> Danke.
<lszyba1> hello,
<lszyba1> could somebody tell me where is a link to upload a release?
<lszyba1> I want to upload to this section: https://launchpad.net/datahub/+download
<wgrant> lszyba1: Download files are added under a release.
<lszyba1> wgrant: sorry, I can't seem to find it, could you tell me what section its on? overview, code?
<wgrant> lszyba1: Overview. You'll need to create a release in a series.
<wgrant> there's a page on it... let me see.
<wgrant> https://help.launchpad.net/Projects/SeriesMilestonesReleases
<lszyba1> thanks: 'Releases are created by clicking RegisterÂ aÂ release on a series' overview page.' I don't have any series created maybe that's why it was hard for me to find it.
<lszyba1> thanks
<lszyba1> hello, is there a easy way in a trunk code to make a tag? in svn i would do: svn cp ./trunk/myproject ./tag/0.1beta   what would be equivalent of that in bzr/launchpad ?
<wgrant> lszyba1: bzr has real tags. You can annotate a revision with a tag name.
<wgrant> See 'bzr help tag'
<seb_kuzminsky> i'm a new vcs-imports user
<seb_kuzminsky> is there any way to get changes back to the upstream CVS repo via launchpad?
<seb_kuzminsky> i think not, right?
<wgrant> Correct.
<wgrant> seb_kuzminsky: ^^
<lszyba1> wgrant: I did:  bzr tag -r 77 datahub-release-0.7  now how do I push this to launchpad? Will launchpad show this tag?
<wgrant> lszyba1: Just a normal push should get it there. I'm not sure how they're displayed.
<lszyba1> wgrant: "No new revisions to push."
<wgrant> lszyba1: Hmm. You might have to ask in #bzr.
<lszyba1> I guess I should have tagged it before I committed and pushed...will do..thanks
<thumper> lszyba1: there is a bzr bugglet that doesn't tell you when it has pushed a tag
<thumper> lszyba1: AFAIK it does push tags even if there are no revisions, but fails to tell you it has done so
<lszyba1> so I'm good then... :)
<lszyba1> now if only I could see that tag in launchpad as a "release" or "milestone" or something like that...
<mwhudson> lszyba1: yeah, that would be nice
<mwhudson> maybe in a year or two...
<lszyba1> I wonder if there is a bug for it? If not I could add it to loggerhead for now to just show tags next to "changes"
<seb_kuzminsky> wgrant: thanks!  it's still a great service ;-)
<seb_kuzminsky> it'll help me pull the fossils kicking and screaming into the 3rd millennium
<seb_kuzminsky> any suggestions for a diy cvs-to-bzr import that captures the cvs branch structure?
<JoeUbuntu> anyone home? I wrote a long time ago to launchpad admins about something and didn't get a response.  I need some private info deleted that got up there accidentally.
<JoeUbuntu> pretty please?
<lszyba1> csv to bzr ?? have you tried :https://wiki.mozilla.org/Importing_Mozilla_CVS_to_Bazaar
<seb_kuzminsky> lszyba1: thanks, i'll check it out
<lszyba1> also, if anybody learns bzr ... http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/Bazaar
<lszyba1> I'm out...bye
<bigjools> dsf
<Hobbsee> bigjools: thanks for the bugfix, btw.
<bigjools> Hobbsee: my pleasure
 * bigjools reads scollback and wonders how the hell he typed "dsf" into here
 * Hobbsee was wondering that, too
 * Hobbsee scratches head at launchpad's inconsistencies.
<Hobbsee> Published in jaunty-release 1 hour ago   vs Pending in jaunty-release  since 2008-11-27 20:25:06 EST
 * Hobbsee thought they all got changed to relativetime
<Hobbsee> s
<bigjools> relative time gives awkward English for the latter
<Hobbsee> pending in jaunty-release for X hours?
<spiv> bigjools: use a period rather than relative time?
<spiv> i.e. what Hobbsee just said :)
<bigjools> Hobbsee: "since"
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> bigjools: you don't need to use the word 'since', afaik?
<bigjools> as with most things LP, it's not that easy :)
<bigjools> we have formatters that present the info so it needs a new formatter
<bigjools> of course it can be done, it just takes a bit longer
<spiv> I'm not sure that "Pending in jaunty-release since 30 minutes ago" is really more awkward than "... since [many digits interspersed with punctuation]" ;)
<bigjools> *shrug*
<Hobbsee> spiv: including unclear timezones.
<spiv> Hobbsee: Oh, I thought that "EST" was short for "estimated" ;)
<Hobbsee> spiv: oh, is *that* it.  right :)
 * bigjools can't wait to take patches once we're OSS
<spiv> bigjools: :)
<bigjools> ;)
<spiv> bigjools: that will be a happy day, but then all this levity would be diverted into productivity, and wouldn't that be a shame? :)
<Hobbsee> bigjools: do you guys keep your jobs when it's open sourced?
<bigjools> lmao
<Hobbsee> i'm sure that's a stupid question :P
<Hobbsee> but still
<spiv> Hobbsee: given the immense amount of cool stuff still to be written, let alone bugs that should be fixed, I imagine there will be plenty of work for an army of full-time lp devs even after it's open sourced...
<Hobbsee> spiv: ah, good.
<bigjools> it's true that we have immense amounts of cool stuff to write
<wgrant> bigjools: Is there really going to be the admin-only restriction on multiple PPA creation, or is that release note out of date?
<bigjools> good grief, that didn't take very long
<bigjools> that is the current plan, yes
<wgrant> I see.
<bigjools> though it may be revised
<wgrant> It seems to me that that would be introducing a feature only to reduce its utility as much as possible.
<bigjools> why is it reducing it?
<wgrant> Because I don't want to have to find an admin so I can stage another X library fix safely in my PPA.
<Hobbsee> make it dependant on the amount of karma a person has, or something?
<Hobbsee> (as to whether they need to find an admin or not, for another PPA)
<bigjools> it's possible we could relax that if we keep the current quota across all the owner's PPAs, but I need to discuss it further
<cprov> Hobbsee: progressive quota related to karma is very likely to fail as criteria when someone new to lp has a important thing to make.
<wgrant> Why is new branch creation not restricted, if PPAs are to be?
<Odd_Bloke> cprov: Then the admins can step in, surely?
<Hobbsee> cprov: in which case, they can go to the admins, as the original proposition was.
<Hobbsee> you'd only be speeding it up for those who were well established on LP
<wgrant> (and regarding the end of that spec - if you touch either of those config files, you're doing it really, really wrong)
<cprov> Odd_Bloke: yes, I see the hybrid scenario.
<Hobbsee> (note:  this does not say that those with low karma *can't* have multiple numbers of PPAs)
<Hobbsee> (just that they need admin approval)
<cprov> Hobbsee: I guess 'ubuntero' flag works better for this case than karma threshold, but we can play with when it's time.
<Hobbsee> cprov: except for the fact that ppas are not an ubuntu-only thing.
<Hobbsee> and upstreams that build packages for ubuntu, but may want to build multiple lots, aren't usually ubunteros
<bigjools> ppas are currently ubuntu-only
<wgrant> PPAs require a CoC signature, don't they?
<Hobbsee> bigjools: sure, they build for ubuntu, but it doesn't mean that only people packaging for the official ubuntu repositories are the only ones that can use them.
<bigjools> yep
<wgrant> I've often wondered why everything in LP is so non-Ubuntu-specific... except for /+archive.
 * Hobbsee thought that was also becoming looser, and not ubuntu specific
<bigjools> Hobbsee: well, you won't get build dependencies for any other distro
<bigjools> so I would say they're Ubuntu-specific
<Hobbsee> bigjools: you miss my point
<cprov> wgrant: ehe, because there is a target distribution (chroots, builders, repositories).
<Hobbsee> although presumably all the upstreams have to sign the ubuntu code of conduct, to use ppas to distribute their own stuff.
<bigjools> Hobbsee: perhaps you could explain it better?
<Hobbsee> which seems slightly backwards.
<wgrant> cprov: I mean, all other Ubuntu stuff has 'ubuntu' in the URL. So other distros can possibly be added eventually.
<wgrant> +archive
<wgrant> +archive has Ubuntu implied.
<cprov> wgrant: right, that will change (slightly), check the spec.
<wgrant> I know there are other Ubuntu-specific hardcodings, but not user-facing.
<Hobbsee> bigjools: never mind.  If they have to sign the Ubuntu code of conduct, whether they're actually involved in the ubuntu community or not (as i'm thinking you can make packages for it without being in teh community, like you can for other distros on other build systems)
<Hobbsee> then having them listed as an ubuntero or not is pretty much irrelevant.
<bigjools> I don't understand how this changes the fact that PPAs are for Ubuntu only
<wgrant> cprov: Right, I read that, but that doesn't address the multiple distro issue, unless the schema has UNIQUE (person, name) rather than just UNIQUE (person, distro, name), which it may well....
<bigjools> the latter
<Hobbsee> bigjools: it's the case of "if you want to make a package, at all, for ubuntu, and distribute it, you *must* sign the code of conduct for ubuntu.  even if they're completely unofficial packages"
<cprov> wgrant: UNIQUE(person, distro, name) will allow automatic propagation from ubuntu PPAs to other distros PPAs in the future
<bigjools> Hobbsee: do you see that as a problem?
<Hobbsee> bigjools: somewhat.  Some people disagree with the code of conduct.
<cprov> wgrant: so instead of having PPA foo for ubuntu and PPA bar for debian, you will have PPA foo for ubuntu and debian.
<wgrant> cprov: But how do I traverse in the web UI to my PPA named 'ppa' in Debian, and my PPA named 'ppa' in Ubuntu? +archive URLs don't have any distro name involved, and this breaking of URLs is surely a good time to fix that.
<Hobbsee> and/or don't wish to sign it, for reasonably legitimate reasons.
<bigjools> it'll get fixed eventually when PPAs support more than Ubuntu
<cprov> wgrant: ^
<bigjools> Hobbsee: then we're not forcing them to use PPAs
 * wgrant would advise that discussion about the CoC stuff keep in mind that it might well be all changing soon.
<beuno> Hobbsee, I also suppose the CoC is currently serving as a disclaimer and "terms of use"
<bigjools> exactly
<Hobbsee> beuno: yes, it would be.  Seems like a bad use for it, though
<Hobbsee> wgrant: well, so they say.  But then there will still be a lock on the 'ubuntero' term, w.r.t. ppas
<beuno> well, making people promise to behave nicelt isn't all bad
<beuno> not ideal, I agree
<beuno> s/nicelt/nicely
<Hobbsee> of course, making them be an ubuntuero, if you ever support other distros / etc is problematic, as well.
<beuno> sure
<beuno> we'll cross that bridge when we get there
<Hobbsee> thus the karma is agnostic enough
<Hobbsee> and would be a decent way of future proofing launchpad.
<wgrant> I don't think basing privileges on karma is a good idea, but I don't think there's a much better solution.
<wgrant> Other than not restricting it, much like branch creation.
<beuno> yeah, it's just not a terrible thing, as long as Ubuntu is the only distro supported. There's a lot of more important things. When we have more distros, the priorities will shift.
<beuno> now, who's packing for UDS already?
<beuno> I'm looking forward to meeting everyone finally
<wgrant> Indeed. It will be excellent.
 * Hobbsee found power adaptors today
<wgrant> And only a bit over a week away!
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Thanks for that.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: you're welcome.
<bigjools> who's going then?
 * bigjools is ducking out of this one
<wgrant> Oh, really?
<bigjools> two other soyuz guys are going, you don't need me as well :)
 * beuno is trying to get clean clothes
<cprov> beuno: you won't need them, it's not Lexington.
<bigjools> although cprov loves the USA so we couldn't stop him
<al-maisan> :)
<bigjools> and now, I need food
<wgrant> Ah! Soyuz people everywhere.
<cprov> bigjools: I'm struggling to understand the ton of your comment ? was it supposed to be sarcastic ?
<al-maisan> wgrant: "resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" :)
<bigjools> cprov: possibly :)
<beuno> cprov, great news. Then I'm ready to go!
<cprov> bigjools: right, possibly ...
<cprov> beuno: yes, we all are, the canonical-bag is always ready to be dragged around the world.
<bigjools> cprov: I shall add <sarcasm> tags next time :)
<beuno> cprov, when are you getting there?
<cprov> beuno: sunday (at some point), let me check
<al-maisan> beuno: are you getting itchy :)
<al-maisan> stayed too long at any one place?
<beuno> cprov, I'm there a week before
 * al-maisan ducks and runs for cover 
<beuno> al-maisan, I've been home for a week and a half and I'm leaving in 3 days. I'd answer you, but I want to keep our conversations on good terms  ;)
<al-maisan> beuno: gotcha :)
<beuno> al-maisan, I do look forward to seeing you all again though
<beuno> so it's mixed feelings
<al-maisan> beuno: same here, looking forward to meeting everybody
<cprov> beuno: that's definitely not good for dating ... you have to work harder on this.
<bigjools> maybe he has a girl in every port
<beuno> cprov, I'm looking into dating stewardess. Seems to solve quite a few problems at the same time!
<cprov> beuno: don't fly Delta then, they have very critical condition in terms of average beauty.
<beuno> cprov, tam is very nice!  but I haven't been able to get on a tam flight this time
<cprov> beuno: me neither, will fly delta again SP-NYC-SF (just because it's lovely) :(
<al-maisan> cprov: ugh .. that does not seem to be the most obvious route :(
<wgrant> I was just thinking that.
<beuno> al-maisan, last time, I did Madrid > Zurich > Montreal > Washington DC
<al-maisan> beuno: I do hope that you at least have a frequent flier account :)
<al-maisan> .. to collect all these miles
<cprov> al-maisan: next time they will probably send me through Reykjavik ;)
<al-maisan> cprov: don't go there .. the polar bears are atrocious :)
<Ursinha> al-maisan, he should be able to win an airplane by now for flying this much
<beuno> al-maisan, I'm climbing the miles category pretty fast...
<al-maisan> beuno: I like the idea, the BEUNO-1 :)
<beuno> al-maisan, that would be great. I'd *always* be home!  I would just have to furnish the plane properly...
<beuno> (no food in the fridge and lots of books everywhere)
<al-maisan> :)
<devil> Hello! Does anyone knows how to compile or cross compile openoffice?
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> Can someone please set "freevial" to be a project group?
<et3> How do I add packages to my PPA?
<cprov> et3: you have to *upload* sources to your PPA or copy packages from other PPAs.
<et3> cprov:  where do I go to do this?
<bigjools> https://help.launchpad.net/PPA
<cprov> et3: start with https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA, as suggested.
<et3> cprov: I've also wanted to rename my account and project
<cprov> et3: okay, take few minutes to go over https://help.launchpad.net/ in general then.
<et3> cprov: it's possible right?
<cprov> et3: yes, and the help wiki will describe the procedures in details.
<et3> thanks
<RainCT> Can someone please set the "freevial" project to be a project group?
<matsubara> RainCT: request it through https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/
<et3> I have problems signing my package
<RainCT> done
<RainCT> thx
<Dvyjones> I'm trying to delete a branch and get the following error: OOPS-1062C2500
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1062C2500
<Dvyjones> Any ideas?
<Dvyjones> OR any ideas on how to reset a branch (I accidentaly put a password there...)
<salgado> Dvyjones, you can 'push --overwrite' an empty branch on that same location
<salgado> as a workaround
<salgado> Dvyjones, that is bug 301595, btw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301595 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS when deleting a branch with revisions" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301595
<Dvyjones> Thanks...
* mwhudson changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: mwhudson
<thumper> moning launchpadders
<thumper> s/moning/morning
<vvinet> good afternoon
<mwhudson> fta: ping
<ruthgard> Please help me, how do I make my first commit of my project from my harddrive to my launchpad project?
<Ryan52> commit something locally, then push it?
<Ryan52> do you know bzr?
<ruthgard> no I know svn
<ruthgard> I just apt-get installed bzr tho
<ruthgard> and did bzr add on the files I need
<ruthgard> then bzr commit
<ruthgard> and it seemed to work
<ruthgard> but I dont get how to move them to launchpad
<mwhudson> ruthgard: you should 'bzr push' to an appropriate location
<ruthgard>  bzr push lp:~j-launchpad-ruthgard-org/fridgemoney/trunk
<ruthgard> gives me
<ruthgard> bzr: ERROR: Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
<mwhudson> ruthgard: you need to run 'bzr launchhpad-login j-launchpad-ruthgard-org'
<mwhudson> ruthgard: newer bzr gives a more helpful error message here
<ruthgard> okay it did something hmm
<ruthgard> Created new branch
<ruthgard> was the message this time
<ruthgard> No code in the site tho
<mwhudson> ruthgard: it takes a minute or two to appear
<ruthgard> aha
<ruthgard> okay now this is a java webapp, can I make the war file (ie compiled binary) appear in the dowload section of the project somehow?
<fta> mwhudson, pong
<Ryan52> sorry, was afk.
<ruthgard> Hmm I see the commit but not the code
<ruthgard> its not that intuitive
<ruthgard> nm I found it
<mwhudson> fta: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+question/51332 again
<mwhudson> ruthgard: yes, you should go to 'register a release' in your project
<quentusrex> Is it possible to have launchpad auto build my code(which is hosted at launchpad) into the *.deb?
<mwhudson> quentusrex: no, though we'd like that
<mwhudson> fta: my understanding when we left it last was that you were going to request some new imports, have you done that?
<quentusrex> mwhudson: then how do I get my code that is on launchpad into a deb on launch pad?
<mwhudson> (or was your expectation different?)
<quentusrex> I've imported the code to launch pad. I'll test it out
<mwhudson> quentusrex: by uploading the code to the ppa
<quentusrex> I'd rather do things the ubuntu way.
<fta> mwhudson, not yet. been busy with something else.
<quentusrex> mwhudson: is there a howto on that?
<mwhudson> quentusrex: unfortunately there's no relation (yet!) between hosting your code on launchpad and packaging it for ubuntu
<mwhudson> quentusrex: yes, let me dig
<mwhudson> fta: ok
<thumper> quentusrex: uploading the code to a ppa is the ubuntu way :)
<mwhudson> quentusrex: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<thumper> quentusrex: there is magic planned (somewhere down the long and twisted way) to hook up code in branches with PPAs
<quentusrex> So, what works right now?
<quentusrex> I saw something about upload the source package.
<mwhudson> yes, that's what you do
<quentusrex> is there a how to for that?
<mwhudson> quentusrex: the link i pasted should get you started
<quentusrex> can I connect to my launch pad account (the code repo) through svn?
<mwhudson> no
<mwhudson> you can use bzr-svn to interoperate between bzr and svn, but you have to run it yourself, it's not a service we provide
<quentusrex> I'll just run my own svn.
<quentusrex> and have launchpad pull from that.
<ruthgard> Thanks for the help
<ruthgard> managed to add my project and make a release
<ruthgard> with downloads
<mwhudson> ruthgard: well done :)
<ruthgard> I am not sure if its the right place to put it tho :)
<ruthgard> after looking in to what other projects are there
<ruthgard> But thats for the future to tell :)
 * mwhudson off for lunch, back in an hour or so
#launchpad 2008-11-28
<et3> is anyone here?
<mthaddon> et3, what's up?
<et3> mthaddon: how can I change my Account name?
<mthaddon> et3, go to https://launchpad.net/people/+me and either "edit details" or "administer"
<mthaddon> sorry, change details
<et3> mthaddon: thank you very much
<mthaddon> sure
<et3> do you think "codeshiftster" sounds cheesy?
<et3> I'm changing it because it's a tongue-twister anyway, but I think it sounds a bit cheesy
<et3> Is it possible to make packages for other distro series than jaunty?
<mthaddon> not sure about that I'm afraid
<et3> mthaddon: my package for ibex was rejected
<mthaddon> et3, sorry, I don't know too much about the packaging side of things
<et3> mthaddon: alright
<Hobbsee> et3: yes.
<Hobbsee> et3: but not if you called it 'ibex'.  You need to use 'intrepid'
<et3> Hobbsee: ahhh, thank you
<Hobbsee> in debian/changelog
<Hobbsee> et3: you're welcome.  same for gutsy, hardy, etc
<Hobbsee> it's always the first name
<et3> the PPA says it's for jaunty.  How do I change that?
<wgrant> That just changes the sources.list entries it shows. It doesn't mean anything.
<Hobbsee> the ppa is for many things.  it just defaults to jaunty, as the jaunty stuff is the only stuff there at the moment
<et3> so I could use the PPA for any of the series?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> for any supported ubuntu release
<Hobbsee> (ie, not breezy or edgy or something)
<et3> what is the A_V.sources.upload file for?
<Hobbsee> to say you've uploaded it
<Hobbsee> (which will stop you inadvertantly uploading it agian, unless you force it, or remove the file)
<et3> Hobbsee: what's in the file?
<Hobbsee> et3: open it in a text editor, and have a look :)
<Hobbsee> where you uploaded itto, iirc
<et3> Hobbsee: from what I can tell. It's a log
<et3> alright.
<et3> I'm new at packaging and I don't know the flow
<et3> for instance: I haven't changed the change-log for the past 3 revisions.
<hggdh> folks, rutadeevacuacion is back
<wgrant> Gah.
<wgrant> No spm!
<wgrant> SPM!!!!!
<wgrant> mwhudson: ^^
<wgrant> mthaddon: Can you kill the user?
<Hobbsee> or change his email?
<hggdh> hum. perhaps not really -- the bugs were opened ~19 hours ago
<Hobbsee> then kill him?
<hggdh> and stomp over
<et3> rutadee...?
<Hobbsee> if you change his email addresses, and lock his account, he can't come back
<wgrant> maurizio-live needs to be rekilled.
<wgrant> ruteadeevacuacion is still dead.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: what's the point? It can be reactivated in minutes
<Hobbsee> if it's going to be killed, kill it properly with the workaround, until the LP bug is fixed.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: screen + while loop == win
<mthaddon> user suspended
 * wgrant wonders why the relevant bugs are private.
<wgrant> mthaddon: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: I did find the answer out to that one
<et3> soo...  what's this "build status" business about in the PPA?
<mthaddon> but until the bug that prevents him re-applying is fixed, he'll probably be back soon enough
 * hggdh also wonders. Additionally the list of subscribers seem to be constant
<Hobbsee> mthaddon: why can't you change his email addresses?
<et3> it has a throbber and "i386" by it
<mthaddon> Hobbsee, he can then just sign up with any other username
<wgrant> et3: You can get more details on the build status by expanding the soruce package item.
<et3> wgrant: it didn't tell me much
<wgrant> et3: Hover over the icons.
<wgrant> hggdh: You can see the subscriber list?
<et3> "currently building"
<Hobbsee> mthaddon: in which case, which bug are you attempting to fix?  That you can't blacklist someone from getting an account at LP?
<wgrant> Right. That probably means it's currently building.
<et3> is launchpad building the package or do they want me to upload a binary?
<hggdh> wgrant, yes
<wgrant> et3: The former. You can't upload binaries.
<wgrant> hggdh: Ah, so it's not private for a good reason.
<et3> wgrant: strange
<wgrant> et3: Why?
<et3> wgrant: why does launchpad do this?
<et3> wgrant: to see if it compiles... or... to save me hassle or what?
<wgrant> et3: So you don't have to build it on all of the archs, and can't upload malicious binaries.
<hggdh> wgrant, he (or LP) subscribed ubuntu-bugs
<et3> Very nice.
<wgrant> hggdh: Which bug are we talking about?
<hggdh> bug 302690
<ubottu> Bug 302690 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/302690 is private
<hggdh> now that is weird
<hggdh> and bug 302691
<ubottu> Bug 302691 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/302691 is private
<et3> it only built i386
<hggdh> and (finally) bug 302692
<ubottu> Bug 302692 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/302692 is private
<wgrant> et3: That's correct, if it's arch: all.
<et3> wgrant: how do I change this to build for amd64 too?
<wgrant> hggdh: Ah, I meant the LP bugs on the utter failure that is account deactivation.
<wgrant> et3: Why does it need to?
<hggdh> heh
<wgrant> et3: Does it have arch-specific components?
<et3> so my friend can use the package on his laptop.
<wgrant> et3: Does it actually need rebuilding to run on the other architecture?
<et3> wgrant: no... but supposing I were to implement a package with arch-specific code, wouldn't I need to have it build for amd64 for it to run properly?
<et3> how do I make it build for other archetectures
<wgrant> et3: If it needed rebuilding for all architectures, you would have something other than Architecture: all in debian/control.
<wgrant> s/all architectures/each architecture/
<et3> wgrant: mine says "Architecture: all"
<et3> and yet it built specifically for i386
<wgrant> et3: And that's correct, if it is Python or something else that doesn't need compilation.
<wgrant> That's because arch: all stuff builds on i386.
<wgrant> But it's published to all architectures.
<et3> just because?
<wgrant> Because that's how it is, yes.
<wgrant> Bug #40096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 40096 in soyuz "do not show architecture 'all' builds as i386" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40096
<et3> alright then.  lol
<et3> lol... it's a BUG?
<wgrant> Not really. I'd call it a differing design opinion.
<et3> well, I think it should be changed to be more general.  Now it's impossible to tell if the package is truly ONLY for i386 or if it fits any arch.
<wgrant> True.
<wgrant> Actually, not true.
<et3> why so?
<wgrant> I think, with PPAs, builds for all three archs will appear, and those that aren't supported by the package will just fail.
<wgrant> As PPAs don't respect Packages-arch-specific, IIRC.
<et3> what did the last thing you just sent me mean?
<et3> launchpad doesn't build arch-specific code?
<wgrant> That file is used in Debian and Ubuntu to exclude architectures from being built for some packages.
<wgrant> But as PPAs don't use that, builds for all architectures will be attempted.
<et3> well that's fair.
<et3> so in conclusion:  any package in a PPA that states only "i386" really means "any arch"
<wgrant> I believe so.
<et3> thank you for explaining that it's not a bug then.  I think it's a misleading arch title and should be changed to "any" or "all" so this conversation doesn't occur again between two other launchpad users.
<wgrant> 'any' doesn't make sense there. 'all' does.
<et3> wgrant: true
<et3> wgrant: I looked at your profile.  You do whitehat hacking?
<et3> wgrant: how do I request security audits from ubuntu whitehat hackers?
<wgrant> The team sort of doesn't really exist much any more.
<et3> wgrant: *sigh*
<et3> wgrant: then how do I get a security audit?
<wgrant> No idea.
<et3> alright
<et3> do you like ipv6?
<et3> many people aren't fond of it
<wgrant> I do.
<wgrant> One doesn't have the option of not being fond of it now.
<et3> lol.
<et3> but it's slower
<wgrant> It is the future, and everybody must embrace it soon.
<wgrant> What gives you this idea?
<wgrant> Apart from the tiny extra overhead of processing the longer packet headers.
<et3> it's what I've heard.  Configuring ssh ojr apache for ip4 only is said to make certain timeout errors go away
<et3> s/orj/or
<spiv> et3: misconfigured networks aren't the same as "it's slower"
 * et3 shrugs
<et3> #comment
* mwhudson changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: -
<tjaalton> hey, is it possible to change my @ubuntu.com email uid?
<wgrant> tjaalton: It's bound to your Launchpad username.
<tjaalton> wgrant: and it's tjaalton, but my email is still tepsipakki@ubuntu.com
<wgrant> tjaalton: Ask #canonical-sysadmin, I suppose.
<wgrant> How long ago did you change it?
<tjaalton> hum, ok
<tjaalton> a year ago I think
<wgrant> Um, wow...
<wgrant> #canonical-sysadmin is the place, anyway.
<tjaalton> I guess the lp uid has always been the same, can't remember
<tjaalton> right
 * Hobbsee throws tomatoes
 * Hobbsee wonders what on earth was the idea between this particular piece of UI development
<Hobbsee> namely, where the 'overview' tab takes you for https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/4:4.1.2-0ubuntu13/+build/751761
<Hobbsee> beuno: any ideas?
<bigjools> Hobbsee: perhaps you[d care to be a bit more constructively critical?
<beuno> Hobbsee, what's the issue with it?
<beuno> repetition?  scattered info?
<spiv> Hobbsee: you expect https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/4:4.1.2-0ubuntu13 to be target, not https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace ?
 * Hobbsee scratches head
<Hobbsee> okay, heisenbug, it appears.
<Hobbsee> it was taking me back to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ a minute ago
<Hobbsee> spiv: no, that's where I expected it to go.
<Hobbsee> sorry for the noise and tomatoes
 * beuno lowers emergency level back to green
 * Hobbsee had that happen a few times, that it went back to /ubuntu/, so doesn't know why it's now working...
<bigjools> Hobbsee: so, if you clickly slightly above "Overview" that's precisely where it will take you ;)
<spiv> Hobbsee: well, I see the breadcrumb labelled 'âkdebase-workspaceâ package' takes you to /ubuntu/+source
<Hobbsee> spiv: that's true.  I wasn't hitting that.
<spiv> Hobbsee: mysterious!
<Hobbsee> spiv: very!!
<bigjools> the breadcrumb thing is a bug, targeted to 2.1.12
<Hobbsee> bigjools: that may have been what I hit - although I can't seem to hit it again now
<bigjools> Hobbsee: you said you went to "https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/" which is the link directly above "Overview"
<bigjools> I'll wager your scroll wheel moved the page down just as you clicked
 * Hobbsee has a touchpad.  this is relatively unlikely?
<bigjools> does it have the scroll wotsit thing on it
<bigjools> fwiw my wife does that all the time on the touchpad
<Hobbsee> on the side, yes
<Hobbsee> hmm.  kdebase-workspace for jaunty completely blew up on sparc.
<bigjools> Hobbsee: are you involved with KDE4 packaging for Ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> bigjools: I used to be, and i'm currently debugging it
<Hobbsee> (as in, some of the packaging)
<bigjools> don't suppose you know if 4.2 will get backported to Intrepid?
<Hobbsee> I would expect that's the plan, but i'm not sure what the SRU guys will say
<bigjools> I hope so
<bigjools> 4.1.2 is driving me nuts, I even briefly loaded up a Gnome desktop yesterday :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<kiko> who's the CHR?
<kiko> SteveA needs a favor
<nalioth> how do you turn off "Contact this user" in launchpad?
<PriceChild> ~ubuntu-irc-cloaks has an email assigned which I would like to assign to ~ubuntu-irc-council. I have changed the contact option in the first team to "mail users individually", but when adding the address to the latter, it complains "irc-council@lists.ubuntu.com is already registered in Launchpad and is associated with Ubuntu cloaked people on freenode"
<PriceChild> Adding the address again to ~ubuntu-irc-cloaks works again without having to verify the address, changing that first option should remove all association to the address imo
<pkern> Any soyuz people in here?
<cprov> pkern: yes
<pkern> cprov: Oh you're here.  Fine. :D
<Ursinha> @login
<ubottu> Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong.
<Ursinha> oh
<vadi2> Hi, just a question - is it possible to make it so you get notified of when a new blueprint is filed in your project?
<intellectronica> vadi2: no, it's not possible yet. only with bugs
<vadi2> Alright, thank you
<awmcclain> I'm the debian maintainer for a bunch of packages where the source is an external SVN repo. I've just started using autoppa (to great success), and I'm wondering what the best way to set up branches in launchpad would be?
<awmcclain> I've tried setting up a project and using vcs-import to get the svn into LP, but I got an email saying it was rejected.
<jelmer> is there some easy way to remove backup.bzr on a lp branch?
<awilkins> Using SFTP?
<jelmer> yeah, but sftp doesn't have a rmtree command
<jelmer> and moving it out of the way doesn't work either, since launchpad only allows certain directory names
<awilkins> I just used FileZilla to delete a lock folder from a branch
<awilkins> Maybe it handles the sub-file details for you?
<awilkins> Hmm, it has SOME problems though
<awilkins> As long as it can list the parent folder of the folder you are deleting, it seems to work well
<awilkins> I just totally trashed a branch....
<awilkins> Old one though
<awilkins> You can completely scour the inside of a branch it would seem - scorched earth apart from the parent folder which permissions won't let you delete
<awilkins> ANd I can't get LP to delete it because someone is still subscribed to it (although it's a very old subscription and I know that all the relevant revisions are merged into the project concerned)
<doko> buildds not accepting new builds
<Robb_M> Hi, i keep getting "oops" errors when i try deleting branches, it doesnt matter if anybody is subscribed to them or not.
<Robb_M> Error ID: OOPS-1063E2498
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1063E2498
<Robb_M> I believe its the same error every time....
<beuno> Robb_M1, give me a few minutes to look into it
<Robb_M1> sure thing beuno, my internet died, sorry.
<Robb_M> im sorry beuno, my internet keeps dying on me....
<james_w> Robb_M: looks like bug 301595 to me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301595 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS when deleting a branch with revisions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301595
<Robb_M> yeah...thats what it is.
<Robb_M> ok, so you guys are aware of it. Thats all I had for you. Have a great day!
<Robb_M> yep, that bug is exactly whats happening to me.
<beuno> james_w, it is. Thanks   :)
<james_w> hi beuno
<beuno> hiya james_w
#launchpad 2008-11-29
<quentusrex> Wow, figuring out dput and the launchpad requirements to upload my package is really difficult...
<awmcclain> If I'm setting up some launchpad branches from which to build packages using autoppa, what's the best way to do that? Create a new project and branch for each new release I want to do? Import the svn to a new project and create branches for each release?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: you'll have to file a launchpad question.  That functionality (to remove an email address from a team) got removed a while ago.
<Hobbsee> an admin will need to fix that
<Hobbsee> (to get it removed from ~u-i-cloaks
<Hobbsee> )
<laterix> I get email everytime someone assigns/comments a bug in the project that I've been participating. How can I disable this feature? Can't find it anywhere
<PriceChild> Thanks Hobbsee.
<bpierre> hi
<bpierre> I just pushed a branch to launchpad (without errors), but now I get these kind of errors: Unknown repository format: 'Bazaar RepositoryFormatKnitPack6 (bzr 1.9)
<bpierre> I pushed with the following command: push lp:~benoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_relpath_files --use-existing-dir
<bpierre> and the local branch does use the 1.9 format
<beuno> bpierre, Launchpad hasn't been upgraded to bzr 1.9 yet, so it doesn't recognize the format
<bpierre> but the push worked!
<beuno> yes, that's how smart bzr is  ;)
<bpierre> what can I do? delete the branch and recreate it?
<beuno> yeah, only in an older format
<beuno> 1.6 or pack-0.92
<beuno> sorry for the hassle, the upgrade to 1.9 is scheduled, but there where a few issues that needed solving before deploying
<beuno> you can always peak and see what version of bzr we're using in:  https://code.launchpad.net/
<bpierre> no problem, but since my local branch is in 1.9, how can I do that? init lp:~benoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_relpath_files --format 1.6
<bpierre> ?
<bpierre> because launchpad automatically created a stacked branch
<bpierre> *create
<beuno> I think bzr upgrade --1.6 on your branch may downgrade it
<bpierre> ok, it worked, thanks beuno
<beuno> bpierre, welcome
<javaJake> How would I create a child branch in Launchpad?
<rockstar> javaJake, what do you mean child branch?
<javaJake> rockstar: as I see it, when you checkout/update a branch, it does the same on its children. However, revisions are specific to each branch.
<javaJake> rockstar: basically, instead of a huge list of branches, we'd like to organize it.
<javaJake> (We're splitting up the code into multiple self-contained parts.)
<rockstar> javaJake, I'm still not sure what you mean by "children."  Do you mean branches of a branch?
<javaJake> rockstar: right, so, for instance:
<rockstar> Like, a branch of trunk?
<javaJake> rockstar: perhaps :)
<javaJake> rockstar: say we have program A, and library B and C.
<javaJake> trunk/ contains global stuff (docs, etc.)
<javaJake> trunk/programA contains code for programA
<javaJake> trunk/libraryA and trunk/libraryB contains imported code plus some customizations
<rockstar> javaJake, so programA, libraryA, etc. is all part of one branch?
<rockstar> The trunk branch?
<javaJake> rockstar: right
<javaJake> rockstar: but I don't want a change in libraryB to be an unrelated, unnecessary revision for programA and libraryC
<rockstar> javaJake, it's all in the same branch.
<javaJake> rockstar: sure, but it's more organized, and each child branch can be accessed on their own
<javaJake> rockstar: why, is there a better way?
<javaJake> I'm open to ideas :)
<rockstar> javaJake, no, bzr doesn't support what you're calling "child branches"
<javaJake> OK
<javaJake> Any alternative?
<javaJake> Besides scripting the automatic branch pull's
<javaJake> ;)
<rockstar> javaJake, nope.  The Launchpad team works like that.  We have a script that updates all our bzr branches of dependencies.
<javaJake> rockstar: "dependencies" in a Launchpad team?
<bpierre> how do you handle going back to an earlier revision? do save the revision needed for each dependency?
<rockstar> javaJake, dependencies for the project.
<rockstar> bpierre, they are separate branches.
<javaJake> rockstar: OK. Is there any documentation on that?
<bpierre> yeah, but the point of 'child branches', or what bazaar developers call nested-trees, is also to be able to track the revision of each child tree
<rockstar> bpierre, but nested trees are not yet supported.
<rockstar> So, while that sounds like a good plan, there is no support for any such feature.
<bpierre> yeah, and separate branches means no tracking of their revisions
<bpierre> so if want to build an earlier version of the master branch, how do you know which revision you should get for each child branch?
<bpierre> *if you
<rockstar> bpierre, you'd have to keep some sort of record for that.
<bpierre> yeah, how do you (the launchpad team) handle that?
<bpierre> I'm just curious
<bpierre> because I too am missing the fact that nested trees are not supported
<bpierre> do you use config-manager?
<rockstar> bpierre, we never have to go back like that.
<bpierre> ok
<javaJake> rockstar: alright, looks like I'll have to get creative
<j^> hi, on launchpad i choose a name long ago
<j^> now if i try to change my details, launchpad gives me an error that my name would not be valid
<j^> i do not intend to change my name
<beuno> j^, you should file a question requesting to get that fixed: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<bpierre> beuno: recreating the branch means I can now interact with it with bzr, but launchpad still tells me it's not a branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~benoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_relpath_files
<beuno> bpierre, you just deleted it and re-pushed with 1.6 format?
<bpierre> well, a while ago yes
<beuno> ugh
<bpierre> and I was waiting for launchpad to rescan it
<beuno>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/repository.py", line 1651, in iter_reverse_revision_history
<beuno>     parents = graph.get_parent_map([next_id])[next_id]
<beuno> KeyError: 'pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com-20081129023747-31a9su43tijw8p3r'
<bpierre> thinking the message would disapear
<beuno> bpierre, looks like bug 259275
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259275 in bzr "pushing a non-stacking format into a non-repo bzrdir with a default stacking policy creates broken branch" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259275
<beuno> maybe not
<beuno> what version of bzr are you using?
<bpierre> mmm, the thing is it works fine as far as bzr is concerned
<bpierre> 1.11dev
<beuno> bpierre, could you file a bug in: http://bugs.launchpad.net/bazaar-launchpad
<bpierre> sure
<beuno> bpierre, also, check to see what output you get with: bzr log lp:~benoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_relpath_files
<beuno> you should get the same traceback as me
<beuno> that'll be useful for figuring out the bug :)
<bpierre> nope
<bpierre> it works
<bpierre> info/pull/missing
<beuno> ah
<bpierre> work too
<beuno> uhm
<beuno> try:   bzr log http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~benoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_relpath_files
<beuno> that should blow up
<bpierre> Repository branch (format: unnamed)
<beuno> and, if it does, then I kinda know where it's breaking
<bpierre> when I use info
<bpierre> is that normal?
<beuno> yeah, getting info through bzr+ssh always says unknown. If you get it through http it will tell you the truth  :)
<bpierre> ok, so it's the location format that triggers the problem
<bpierre> using bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebenoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_relpath_files/ works
<beuno> right, well, LP mirrors it internally
<beuno> to where you see it from http
<beuno> "the puller"
<beuno> so that's what's breaking
<beuno> wheny uo file the bug, let me know the # and I'll add that bit in
<bpierre> ok
<bpierre> btw, I get an error with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bazaar-launchpad
<beuno> ay
<beuno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar
<beuno> I get dizzy on weekends
<bpierre> thanks :)
<bpierre> I will add 2 bugs: one about the fact that my first push created a branch with the wrong format, and the second about recreating the branch, ok?
<beuno> well, the first one is pretty clear, since you uploaded with a 1.9 format
<beuno> but sure
<beuno> Launchpad should tell you that it doesn't support that format yet
<bpierre> beuno: #303560 and #303562
<bpierre> I hope the descriptions are clear
<quentusrex> I have an error from dput
<quentusrex> It crashed out on me.
<quentusrex>   pbxbuntu-freepbx_2.5.0-1_source.changes: done.
<quentusrex> Traceback (most recent call last):
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/bin/dput", line 922, in <module>
<quentusrex>     main()
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/bin/dput", line 871, in main
<quentusrex>     files_to_upload, debug, ftp_mode, progress=progress, port=port)
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/share/dput/ftp.py", line 71, in upload
<beuno> bpierre, thanks
<quentusrex>     ftp_connection.quit()
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/ftplib.py", line 534, in quit
<quentusrex>     resp = self.voidcmd('QUIT')
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/ftplib.py", line 246, in voidcmd
<quentusrex>     return self.voidresp()
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/ftplib.py", line 221, in voidresp
<quentusrex>     resp = self.getresp()
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/ftplib.py", line 207, in getresp
<quentusrex>     resp = self.getmultiline()
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/ftplib.py", line 193, in getmultiline
<beuno> quentusrex, please don't do that
<quentusrex>     line = self.getline()
<quentusrex>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/ftplib.py", line 183, in getline
<quentusrex>     if not line: raise EOFError
<quentusrex> EOFError
<quentusrex> beuno: ok.
<quentusrex> Any idea of the reason for the crash?
<beuno> not really, no
<quentusrex> :(
<beuno> bpierre, bugs look good enough to triage, I'll leave them as-is
<bpierre> ok
<quentusrex> bpierre: any idea what could be causing my bug?
<bpierre> nope
<quentusrex> :(
<quentusrex> Is anyone awake???
<javaJake> Is anyone here able to help me delete a branch?
<javaJake> It got really messed up, to the point Launchpad errors out on deletion
<javaJake> I meant to ask, are there any administrators here able to help me :P
<Ursinha> hi javaJake
<javaJake> Ursinha: hey
<Ursinha> to delete a branch you should click on the red circle on the right of it
<Ursinha> can you see that?
<javaJake> Hehehehe, yes :)
<Ursinha> :)
<javaJake> Then it confirms the deletion
<Ursinha> it will delete the branch in launchpad
<javaJake> Yes, I click delete...
<javaJake> *click*
<javaJake> And I wait...
<javaJake> And it sits there for a good 15 seconds or so
 * javaJake waits some more
<Ursinha> well
<wgrant> Is this on edge?
<Ursinha> it should return something
<javaJake> "Oops!"
<Ursinha> or the confirming of deletion or a
<javaJake> wgrant: no
<Ursinha> erm
<javaJake> "Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad."
<Ursinha> oops
<Ursinha> :/
<javaJake> "(Error ID: OOPS-1064B2793)"
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1064B2793
<javaJake> NICE!
<Ursinha> javaJake, it's a timeout
<javaJake> Ursinha: yea, I know
<javaJake> But something isn't happy behind the scenes.
<Ursinha> javaJake, how many times have you tried?
<javaJake> Quite a few.
<javaJake> :P
<javaJake> Not a whole lot, just a few ;)
<Ursinha> javaJake, not good
<Ursinha> have to see the oops
<javaJake> OK
<Ursinha> javaJake, have to wait a few minutes to the report to be available, I'll be right back in a few minutes
<javaJake> Ursinha: OK
<javaJake> Well, my partner mentioned he "commited without establishing bzr init and then used --use-existing-dir"
<javaJake> He also mentioned that he couldn't "push" because there was "no common ancestry".
<javaJake> I can get more detailed information if you need it, he's away right now.
#launchpad 2008-11-30
<Ursinha> javaJake, erm, this is a known bug
<Ursinha> javaJake, it's bug 301595, being worked on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301595 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS when deleting a branch with revisions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301595
<javaJake> Ursinha: OK
<javaJake> Ursinha: thanks
<Ursinha> javaJake, np :)
<respond> If I do a "bzr commit"  after a "bzr branch lp:foobar" operation, will it modify only local files on my system?
<respond> I want only local files to be modified at this time, then request a push later. Is that how it works?
<wgrant> respond: Yes.
<respond> wgrant: thanks.
<respond> For this error: "bzr: ERROR: Commit refused because there are unknown files in the working tree.", is there a way to get bzr to tell me which files it cannot recognize?
<respond> This is due to my aliasing commit to commit --strict.
<RAOF> respond: 'bzr st' (short for bzr status) will give you a list of all the: added files, changed files, deleted files, and (importantly for you) unknown files.
<respond> RAOF_: Thanks (belatedly). I discovered that after many 'o' manual page reading. :)
<c_korn> hello
<c_korn> my browser (opera) fails to load one element on launchpad.net#
<c_korn> -# never saw such a behaviour on any other website
<epsy> and what elemebt would that be?!
<c_korn> don't know how I can figure it out
<epsy> well, screenshot?
<c_korn> http://www.abload.de/img/bildschirmfoto-launchp45kk.png
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> i've a problem with ppa. i've uploaded a package and then deeted it. now i'm uploading a new package with the same changelog and it gets rejected by launchpad. The reason is: File dsss_0.78-0ubuntu2.diff.gz already exists in PPA for D Programming Language Applications Packagers, but uploaded version has different contents. how can i fix it?
<Hobbsee> increase the version
<Hobbsee> just because it's deleted doesn't mean you can use the same version again
<goshawk> Hobbsee: yep
<goshawk> Hobbsee: is there a way to do it without increasing the version?
<Hobbsee> no
<goshawk> ok
<goshawk> i'll do it then
<goshawk> thanks Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> you're welcome
<Ng> what's the use case for the contact user/team feature?
<Ng> I seem to be getting mails from people who are lost and confused
<bpierre> hi
<bpierre> yesterday I registered 2 branches, the first one was pushed with a bzr format not handled by launchpad bzr version, and doesn't work even after recreating it, but the second one was pushed after I downgraded my local branch to 1.6, but has errors too: https://code.launchpad.net/~benoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_patch_no_newline_at_end
<bpierre> the 2 work ok when I use a bzr+ssh URL (push/pull/missing/info/log...)
<bpierre> any idea?
<respond> FYI: I see this after a long wait: "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server."
<respond> when connecting to https://code.launchpad.net/~bgoodr+launchpad/viewmail/bgoodr+launchpad/
<respond> Could be my network. who knows.
<beuno> respond, seems to work
<respond> beuno: I'll give it a retry.
<beuno> but if there are timeouts, they'll surface on our daily reports, and it'll get addressed
<respond> beuno: gotcha.
<respond> It is responding now. Thanks!
<Ursinha> hey beuno
<Ursinha> :)
<beuno> hey hey Ursinha
<beuno> how's it going?
<Ursinha> nice :)
<Ursinha> and you?
<beuno> packing :)
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> this is usual, do you have any news? :P
<mrooney> Is there any documentation on expiring bugs?
<mrooney> I can't seem to find an explanation on what happens to Incomplete bugs when they are expired
<thekorn> mrooney, don't know, but maybe https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/Expiry
<mrooney> thekorn: thanks!
<fta> is bazaar.launchpad.net down? I get the "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server." blabla
<slom_> hello
<slom_> i cant access http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~c-sloma/r6rs-clos/r6rs-clos-dev/revision/13
<slom_> and it says I should let people know on "the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. "
<slom_> :)
<oojah> slom_: Someone else was asking a similar question about bazaar.launchpad.net about seven minutes ago.
<oojah> So it's probably not just you (if that's any consolation).
<slom_> :)
<beuno> slom_, the server is probably overloaded
<beuno> it will get restarted soon
<beuno> it's a known performance issue being worked on
<slom_> thanks for your work then ... I will wait until it's back online
<tormod> why do I get "package architecture (lpia) does not match system (amd64)" on a lpia build?
<WNxCryptic> I'd like to start developing for an open-source project to gain software eng experience and bulk up my resume, but I don't have very much confidence that I'd be able to jump into something big like an OS and immediately be of any use.
<WNxCryptic> Anyone have a recommendation as to some open-source project I might look at?
<kiko> WNxCryptic, do you want to development work or just QA?
<WNxCryptic> What's QA?
<kiko> quality assurance
<WNxCryptic> development work
<kiko> WNxCryptic, hmm. any application you're particularly interested in?
<WNxCryptic> not especially
<WNxCryptic> I mean I just got on the linux scene and would like to learn more about it
<WNxCryptic> But not sure if the best way to do that is through dev
<kiko> WNxCryptic, check out launchpad.net/ubuntu
<kiko> there's a bunch of stuff about the distro
<kiko> and that will teach you more or less what goes into a distro
<stgraber> Is there a magic way that I don't know of to get the list of blueprints that have been proposed for uds-jaunty and I'm subscribed to ?
<WNxCryptic> kiko, well I'm currently using ubuntu but I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with it.
<WNxCryptic> I like it well enough but I can't say that its going to be perfect for me.
<RAOF> WNxCryptic: Ubuntu is composed of the work of many, many (I think ~20,000) 'upstream' projects, which are shared in common with all the distributions.
<RAOF> People don't generally develop "Ubuntu"; they hack on one of these projects (the kernel, GTK, X, GIMP, mono, GNOME-Do, empathy, dbus, firefox, etc, etc).
<RAOF> There are a small number of projects which are Ubuntu- or Debian-specific, but not many.
<WNxCryptic> Well I was just recommended to check out Slackware when I mentioned I wanted to learn as much about linux (in general) in the shortest time possible.
<WNxCryptic> What's the dev work for slackware like? Similar to ubuntu in that its composed of numerous packages?
<RAOF> Right.
<WNxCryptic> I see.
<RAOF>  /All/ the distributions are like that.  Slackware, gentoo, Fedora, SuSE, Debian - the work of a distribution is to aggregate these upstream projects in useful, harmoneous ways.
<WNxCryptic> I mean, I imagine that trying to dev for the kernel would be more complicated than some other app..yeah?
<RAOF> Mostly, yeah.  There are a bunch of restrictions on kernel code.  And it's less easy to debug ;)
<WNxCryptic> Restrictions?
<RAOF> No floating point code, for example.
<DrSmall> Hey, I am getting a "Please try again" error when attempting to access this page: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~drsmall/feedmailer/devel/files
<lifeless> spm: ping
<mrooney> DrSmall: have you tried again? :)
<spm> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> loggerhead slap needed I think
<DrSmall> mrooney: of course
<spm> lifeless: it does - didn't check nagios earlier - DrSmall 1001 apoloiges; fixing now.
<lifeless> DrSmall: one of our backends is a bit temperamental right now
<poolie> hello
<lifeless> DrSmall: will be fixed in a couple of minutes
<DrSmall> lifeless: thanks
<DrSmall> no big hurry. I was just letting you know
<spm> DrSmall: should be ok again
<DrSmall> spm: works fine now. Thanks
<lifeless> poolie: are you back?
<poolie> i'm scheduled to be on leave today
<poolie> just for one day
<poolie> i'm just having a look at what's in mail etc
<poolie> btw spm made a 1.10 pqm branch, but either couldn't or didn't push it to escudero
<poolie> could you do that please?
<poolie> or tell him how to?
<lifeless> poolie: I did, in #is on the same day
<lifeless> poolie: along with corrections to what you asked to ensure the right parent exists etc
<lifeless> poolie: so I'll just do the escudero push now
<qball> I have a package in my ppa that is waiting on a dependency.. but libgio-dev was a intermediate package, so that will never be fixed
<qball> how can I get rid of the package?
<qball> from the build queue
<poolie> qball: file a ticket at answers.launchpad.net/soyuz
<poolie> ^^ informed guess
#launchpad 2009-11-23
<mdke> anyone around who can help with a launchpad-code problem? I need to delete a backup.bzr file
<mdke> (http://paste.ubuntu.com/325942/ - my previous upgrade failed due to a network timeout)
<noodles775> hi mdke, does https://dev.launchpad.net/HitchHiker help?
<mdke> noodles775: it might do - I'd be a bit scared of breaking something but I'll give it a go if no one is able to delete the file for me
<noodles775> mdke: I'm assuming you can use it to delete the backup.bzr instead of .bzr in the same way?
<mdke> ok I'll try
<mdke> noodles775: yes, it worked :) thanks a lot
<mdke> that's a neat tool
<hakaishi> hi folks! I'd like to upload an PPA, but it won't do and I don't even get an email while I generated the gpg-key like said in the manual and the email-address is also the same everywhere (control-file, gpg-key, on launchpad). Even with debuild -S -sa runs without an error. Upload per dput seems to be fine too... could it be that it's something in the control-file? ( https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/91123 )
<noodles775> hakaishi: looking
<hakaishi> noodles775: eh? shall I post it here, or what do you mean?
<noodles775> hakaishi: no, there's enough info on the question - I'm checking the logs for the error.
<hakaishi> noodles775: well, it can't be that the upload is just slow since I'm trying to upload since three days...
<noodles775> hakaishi: no, there's definitely an error (an OOPS happening...), one tick.
<hakaishi> noodles775: Any idea yet? - Is it really enough information?
<noodles775> hakaishi: I've updated the question with a comment, but I'm just trying to locate the detailed error info.
<mr_steve> Are there any issues with the PPAs right now? I can't dput; connection refused.
<noodles775> losa: looking at the poppy log, it looks like it needs a restart.
<noodles775> mr_steve: our losas have restarted the ftp server, you should be good to go now.
<mr_steve> noodles775, indeed, I just tried & succeeded. Thanks much!
<hakaishi> noodles775: anything yet? - how does launchpad build the packages?
<noodles775> hakaishi: we've located the detailed error report, but I don't yet have access to it.
<hakaishi> okay, then I'll wait
<oly> hi, i am curious about checking out a branch to ubuntu one, so that i can keep a load of computers in sync with out having to worry about commiting and updating all the time
<oly> is this a good idea ? anyone doing anything like this currently ?
<intellectronica> oly: yeah, i sync some repositories like that. works fine
<noodles775> hakaishi: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/325975/
<hakaishi> noodles775: so what to do?
<wgrant> hakaishi: How did you construct the .changes file?
<hakaishi> wgrant: with debuild -S -sa
<wgrant> hakaishi: Does your debian/control not mention any binaries?
<oly> intellectronica, cool think i shall do that then can sync my laptop desktop and work machine then
<hakaishi> wgrant: no, there is no such line. How should it look like?
<wgrant> hakaishi: pastebin your debian/control
<hakaishi> Source: qt-shutdown-p
<hakaishi> Section: utils
<hakaishi> Package: qt-shutdown-p
<hakaishi> Version: 1.3
<hakaishi> Priority: extra
<hakaishi> Architecture: any
<hakaishi> Depends: libqtgui4, libqtcore4
<hakaishi> Installed-Size: 185
<hakaishi> Maintainer: hakaishi <hakaishi@web.de>
<hakaishi> XSBC-Original-Maintainer: hakaishi <hakaishi@web.de>
<hakaishi> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7), cdbs
<noodles775> hakaishi: not here, on pastebin.ubuntu.com
<hakaishi> Standards-Version: 3.8.3
<wgrant> !paste | hakaishi
<ubottu> hakaishi: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com (or !pastebinit for CLI) | For pasting !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin Please give us the URLs for your posts!
<wgrant> But I think I see the problem.
<wgrant> hakaishi: There should be an empty line before the 'Package' field
<hakaishi> wgrant: I'll try
<hakaishi> wgrant: nothing happens, but I think it will take a bit of time, right?
<wgrant> hakaishi: You should get an email within five minutes, unless the same sort of thing happens again.
<rithy> Need help! Why my translate template can not import into Launchpad? I wait for improvement for along time
<rithy> https://translations.launchpad.net/moonos/4.0/+imports
<hakaishi> @all thank you! It finally works ^^
<wgrant> hakaishi: Great.
<dpm> rithy, could you post the URL of the project you are trying to set up for translation, please?
<rithy> https://translations.launchpad.net/moonos/4.0/+imports
<rithy> https://launchpad.net/moonos
<rithy> I uploaded 10 day ago!
<henninge> dpm, rithy: I will look at the imports.
<rithy> henninge: Thank you!
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: aaah, intereseting problem. Good it's solved!
<hakaishi> LarstiQ: but building faild -.-
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: well that's a positive change :)
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: you don't have a build target in debian/rules?
<hakaishi> LarstiQ: I made my source with qmake and thus there is a Makefile, but what do I need to change in the debian/rules, so that it works? - before I made my .deb with debuild -b <source> <source.deb>
<geser> hakaishi: have you read the packaging guide?
<geser> !packaging guide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<LarstiQ> hakaishi: hmm, that looks like it should work
 * LarstiQ usually just invokes `debuild`
<LarstiQ> so, `cd package; vim debian/rules; debuild`
<hakaishi_> LarstiQ: sorry my Network just went down...
<aleksander_m> hi all... I can see a message saying "<project> does not have any download files"
<aleksander_m> but how can I setup files to be downloaded in the project?
<aleksander_m> like new tarball releases and such
* al-maisan changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is experiencing some technical difficulties, we are investigating | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: al-maisan | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<doctormo> .join #bzr
<doctormo> damn
 * mpt growls at bug 439425
<ubottu> Bug 439425 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/439425 is private
<mpt> hm, make that bug 439245
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439245 in malone ""Hot bugs" listed for project that doesn't use Launchpad for bug tracking" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439245
<jml> mpt, that sucks.
<jml> mpt, I was growling at hot bugs because it shows closed bugs.
<doctormo> hey mpt
<mpt> hello
<doctormo> Just a general greeting, was great meeting and chatting
<doctormo> *again
<jldupont> When packaging an upstream, do you guys keep a "branch" somewhere on LP with the packaging makefiles etc?
<jldupont> anyone?
<beuno> jldupont, yes, it's common for people to keep a branch with the /debian directory
<jldupont> so, you create a "project" per upstream?
<jldupont> or is it more common to have a "project" per packager?
<jldupont> ... per person doing packaging?
<beuno> jldupont, yes, one project per upstream
<jldupont> beuno: thanks!
<beuno> jldupont, np
<maxb> jldupont: If by 'you guys' you mean Ubuntu, it's no longer necessary to create projects, because Launchpad now supports packages hanging off a distro source package, as well as off a project
<soren> jldupont: If the upstream project already exists on Launchpad, of course that's where we put the packaging branch. We don't create a new project just for the packaging.
<jldupont> maxb: thanks.
<jldupont> soren: thanks for the info.
<kgoetz> hi all. I've just noticed editing different parts of a page on LP gives the little (tick) and (cross) icons swapped. would this be considered a bug?
<Gandalfar> how do I enabled bugs for my PPA packages?
<MTecknology> Gandalfar: You can't unless you create a project for it
<Gandalfar> hmm, I wonder if it would make sense
<jldupont> anyone the Bazaar Eclipse plugin around here?
<jldupont> anyone?
<maxb> How often does the Launchpad Debian importer run? How long after that should it take for the UDD importer to update the branches?
<beuno-lunch> maxb, my understanding is every 6 hours
<beuno-lunch> as for the branch to update, I think it's either pretty instant, or it gets stuck and james_w un-wedges it
<vadi2> My system is already up to date, but LP keeps invalidating every crash report with this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/487231
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<vadi2> For the last few days. Rather annoying.
<vadi2> Lemme unprivate it
<vadi2> Well, skip that, I don't know how.
<vadi2> libavahi-common3: installed version 0.6.25-1ubuntu5, latest version: 0.6.25-1ubuntu5.1 etc is the list.
<sproaty> is there a way to see all translator contributors?
<cr3> what happened to pictures of people on launchpad? mine doesn't seem to appear anymore: launchpad.net/~cr3
<cr3> if my face was reflecting poorly on the reputation of launchpad, let me know, I can take it :)
 * mneptok made that!
<mneptok> cr3: i see mine at - https://edge.launchpad.net/~mneptok
<cr3> mneptok: don't be too hard on yourself, you didn't have much to work with in the first place
<mneptok> cr3: get me the mankini photo and i'll make you a new one.
<mneptok> "I stopped using Launchpad for my project when ...."
<cr3> mneptok: make sure you get the forest and not just the tree
<mneptok> brb. gag reflex problems.
<tsimpson> cr3: I think it _has_ to be 192x192
<pkern> Could somebody please process https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/libinfinity/+imports?
<Jordan_U> Can daily builds currently be done using only launchpad's servers, i.e. without bzr-builder running on my own server which I would have to keep up for packages to be built every commit?
<mwhudson> Jordan_U: no, but it's very much a goal of the next couple of months
<Jordan_U> mwhudson: Ok, thank you
#launchpad 2009-11-24
<tonyyarusso> Hi, I'm trying to upload a package to my PPA and have it built for karmic, while the changes file says jaunty.  https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading claims this should be possible, but I can't for the life of me get those instructions to work.  Could someone look those over and let me know what I'm missing?
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: Seriously reconsider what you are attempting to do, and then maybe append the distroseries name after the 'ubuntu/' in the upload path.
<tonyyarusso> wgrant: I know it works on karmic, if that's what you're after there.  And that's totally what I tried.
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: What does it do when you try?
<tonyyarusso> wgrant: my .dput.cf had incoming = ~tonyyarusso/ppa/ubuntu/karmic - I get an e-mail saying it was rejected for already having been uploaded to jaunty
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: My concern is that you are going to induce horrible confusion, death and destruction by reusing the version.
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: Right, you cannot upload the same version again.
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: Perhaps you mean to copy the source and binaries from Jaunty to Karmic.
<tonyyarusso> wgrant: what do you mean by that exactly?
<tonyyarusso> Just add something the debiant/changelog and nothing else and reupload?
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: No. Go to your PPA's package listing, and select 'Copy packages'
<tonyyarusso> oh
<tonyyarusso> that sounds nifty, /me looks for button
<tonyyarusso> wgrant: Oooh, that looks good - didn't know that existed.
<wgrant> tonyyarusso: It is indeed handy.
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: al-maisan | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<Jason_JM> hey guys, this is DOA: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/ubuntu-on-ec2/uec-tools/files
<mwhudson> yay codebounce
<mwhudson> spm: ^^
<mwhudson> Jason_JM: seems to be back now
<Jason_JM> sweet
<MTecknology> How do I change the owner of a team on edge?
<MTecknology> oh....
<spm> mwhudson: was just bouncing it actually :-)
<mwhudson> spm: i thought you got to it very quickly :-)
<MTecknology> I forgot, how to I request an import of a project?
<spm> mwhudson: $ last ==> spm .... Tue Nov 24 02:27   still logged in ;-)
<justmoon> Hey there, I'm interested in the beta of private PPAs for commercial subscribers - can anybody tell me anything about that please?
<MTecknology> justmoon: It looks like they're discussing sprints which means they might be busy for a while..
<MTecknology> Hope they get to you soon though
<justmoon> I'm not in a rush. Do you think it's better to send an email though?
<mwhudson> justmoon: mailing commercial@launchpad.net is probably a good idea
<mwhudson> (and have you seen https://edge.launchpad.net/+tour/join-launchpad#commercial ?)
<justmoon> mwhudson: thanks, will do that - no I hadn't seen that
<mwhudson> MTecknology: do you mean https://edge.launchpad.net/+code-imports/+new ?
<MTecknology> mwhudson: yup - just found it but I found a problem
<MTecknology> mwhudson: apparently I can't import darcs
<mwhudson> MTecknology: indeed, there's a bug about that
<MTecknology> mwhudson: bug link?
<mwhudson> MTecknology: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/44455
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 44455 in launchpad-code "Support for darcs" [Low,Triaged]
<MTecknology> lol - JUST found it
<Toobazz> Hello. Is there currently some general problem with bugs linked to Debian tracker? There are many that are solved and Launchpad reports as appearing "not to exist"... just to give some examples:314378, 494242, 491885...  Is it related with #364450 ?
<oSoMoN> hi all
<oSoMoN> where should I ask for a rosetta admin to approve a translation template import?
<henninge> oSoMoN: It will happen eventually, we check the queue regularly but have fallen behind due to sprints and UDS. Sorry.
<henninge> oSoMoN: which one's yours?
<oSoMoN> https://translations.launchpad.net/moovida/+imports?field.filter_status=NEEDS_REVIEW&field.filter_extension=all
<oSoMoN> the template is elisa-plugins/elisa/plugins/search/i18n/elisa-plugin-search.pot
<henninge> oSoMoN: There is also elisa-plugin-hunted
<oSoMoN> yes, but let's say this one has low priority
<oSoMoN> I'm especially interested in the "search" one, because we've had a code&string freeze, and this one is part of the core of the application
<henninge> oSoMoN: both done now.
<oSoMoN> henninge, great!
<oSoMoN> thanks a lot
<henninge> np
<pkern> henninge: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/libinfinity/+imports please
<henninge> pkern: just did that one
<henninge> pkern: it's already imported
<pkern> henninge: Oh, thanks.
<danilos> henninge, I am switching locations since everyone is ignoring me on #translations :) ttyl
<jelmer> hi
<jelmer> what's the easiest way to get a vcs-import upgraded to 2a?
<beuno> jelmer, I think deleting and creating again is probably easiest
<jelmer> beuno: I'll try that, thanks
<bac> hi al-maisan
<al-maisan> hello bac
<geser> is a warning now enough to reject an upload (from the buildds)? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36001574/upload_1361070_log.txt
<geser> "WARNING php-auth_1.6.2-1_all.deb: has 23 file(s) with a time stamp too far into the future (e.g. usr/share/doc/php-auth/examples/tests/users [Thu Jan  1 10:13:08 1970])." is this a problem in soyuz not accepting such things or a problem in the package?
<geser> al-maisan, bigjools: any idea on this ^^?
 * al-maisan looks
<al-maisan> hmm .. the message is raised in lib/lp/archiveuploader/nascentuploadfile.py
<al-maisan> in verifyDebTimestamp()
<al-maisan> geser: the rejection message is wrong, to say the least, probably a copy-and-paste error
<al-maisan> geser: I'd need to look at debian docs to see whether files with old time stamps are permissible in which case it is a Soyuz error
 * al-maisan asks the question in #ubuntu-motu
<jldupont> Anyone using the Bazaar plugin under Eclipse?  How can I "ignore" a file from a directory under revision control ?
<jldupont> anyone?
<bigjools> jldupont: you might want to ask in #bzr
<jldupont> @bigjools: thanks!
<jldupont> How come that my PPA doesn't appear in Synaptic?  When I press the "origin" button, my PPA isn't listed?
<jldupont> (yes I added the repository to the list)
<jldupont> anyone?
<burlaman> hello
<fta> the "Latest updates" table in PPA pages is somewhat useless for PPAs with backports.. like this one: https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa
<fta> it seems like 5 times the same package (even if it's not) with same time but different states
<bigjools> fta: can you take a screen capture and post a bug please, it should not be doing that
<fta> bigjools, bug 487879
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487879 in launchpad ""Latest updates" table in PPA pages is useless for PPAs with backports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487879
<bigjools> fta: thanks
#launchpad 2009-11-25
<poolie> can team administrators add new administrators?
<poolie> apparently not?
<poolie> only the owner/
<poolie> lifeless: ^^ you should ask statik to make you an admin
<LaserJock> any vcs-imports people around?
<mwhudson> yes
<LaserJock> mwhudson: does the git imports use bzr-git?
<LaserJock> *do the
<LaserJock> there is a project that has moved from svn to git, right now there is an svn import and git import registered, the former is no longer used and the latter is failing
<LaserJock> I tried locally to bzr branch my local git clone and that worked fine
<LaserJock> so I'm wondering how to get things working again
<thumper> LaserJock: yes they use bzr-git
<thumper> LaserJock: which branch?
<LaserJock> thumper: https://code.launchpad.net/avogadro
<LaserJock> thumper: the "trunk" one is pointing to svn and the vcs-imports is the failed git
<LaserJock> on a somewhat related note, is it possible to change the URL that a vcs-import is importing from in the LP UI?
<LaserJock> I've got some Gnome vcs imports that are dead because of the svn-> git transition
<thumper> LaserJock: nuke it and try again would be my suggestion
<thumper> LaserJock: there were some issues back when with the cached maps
<thumper> bugs since fixed I believe
<LaserJock> I can't nuke them as far as I can see
<thumper> LaserJock: I can
<thumper> LaserJock: a new import requested by you would be owned by you now
<thumper> LaserJock: want me to nuke it?
<thumper> mwhudson: can you just blow away the cache?
<thumper> mwhudson: the branch has a subscriber
<LaserJock> you can nuke it if you want
<thumper> mwhudson: last updated in may
<mwhudson> thumper: i can't, no
<mwhudson> spm can though
<thumper> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/avogadro/main
<thumper> spm: plz can nuke import internals?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so I'm back to 3/4 of my code imports failing
<LaserJock> I never can seem to keep them going
<mwhudson> LaserJock: :(
<thumper> LaserJock: what else?
<LaserJock> openbabel is dead
<LaserJock> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/openbabel/trunk
<thumper> LaserJock: just request new git imports for the gnome moves
<spm> thumper: as in delete the branch?
<LaserJock> https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/goffice/trunk is also wrong
<LaserJock> and has a ton of gnome-mirror branches
<thumper> spm: no, just the cached bits that mwhudson can tell you the location of
<spm> thumper: ahhh righto. will do upon my return from fetching boy from school
<thumper> spm: ta
<LaserJock> spm: thanks
<thumper> LaserJock: hmm... have a cunning plan to clean up gnome imports, but not today
<LaserJock> I just never can seem to get more than 50% success rate with these imports
<LaserJock> I was trying to set up some automatic PPAs
<LaserJock> but if I can't rely on the bzr branches it makes it more difficult
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if I should try to just do my own mirroring or what
<thumper> LaserJock: older git imports had some mapping failures
<thumper> LaserJock: however we were caching the broken values
<thumper> LaserJock: and for some, we have just been fixing as alerted to
<LaserJock> k, so hopefully one more round of clean up and things should settle down
<ajmitch> thumper: you can't just clear the cache of the whole lot then?
<thumper> ajmitch: considering
<mwhudson> i thought i'd cleaned all of those up, but apparently not :(
<maxb> I don't suppose there's anyone capable of looking into why an UDD import has not happened, other than james_w, who is on vacation?
<LaserJock> maxb: subversion?
<maxb> Indeed, 1.6.6dfsg-2
<wgrant> maxb: That's probably more of a question for #ubuntu-devel.
<wgrant> Since LP certainly knows of it.
 * ajmitch wonders where to find links to those branches in the LP ui
<maxb> wgrant: Last I heard, only james_w and losas had access
<thumper> LaserJock: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/avogadro/main is now up to daet
<thumper> date
<LaserJock> thumper: awesome, thanks
<LaserJock> is there an easy way to make that the trunk branch?
<LaserJock> or do I need to ping the project owner or something
<thumper> LaserJock: either ping the project owner/driver or a LOSA
<wgrant> lamont: Did you end up sticking that sbuild diff anywhere?
<alkisg_work> Sorry for asking but I couldn't find it after 10 minutes of googling: what's the URL for copying packages from the primary archive for Ubuntu? (I want to copy a Lucid package to my ppa...)
<al-maisan> alkisg_work: why not just upload it?
<noodles775> alkisg_work: currently the web ui can be used to copy from PPA->PPA, but afaik, you'll need to use the api to copy from ubuntu->PPA.
<noodles775> See: https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/#archive-syncSource
<noodles775> or https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib for more general info.
<tsimpson> there is some sample code here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/334858/comments/2 you should be able to adapt something
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334858 in soyuz "Require a way to copy [P]PPA packages into Ubuntu" [High,Triaged]
<alkisg_work> al-maisan, noodles775: no I'm sure there's such a site to copy from ubuntu to ppa, and I do have the link at home, I just can't find it in google... :(
<alkisg_work> Anyway, I guess I'll have to do the copying when I return back home. :-/
<wgrant> There is, but you're not really meant to use it.
 * micahg just downloads, decrease version, and push
<micahg> assuming the dependencies are there
<alkisg_work> Sure, I know the drill. It's just easier, when there are *no* source code changes involved...
<pmcenery> Hi. I'd like to request the deletion of one of my PPAs. Is this the place to do it?
<noodles775> pmcenery: So deleting PPAs is a bit of a problem at the moment (bug 392887). If you have never published to the PPA, you can requets it to be deleted by filing a question like one of those at:
<noodles775> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+questions?field.search_text=delete&field.sort=RELEVANCY&field.sort-empty-marker=1&field.actions.search=Search&field.language=en&field.language-empty-marker=1&field.status=OPEN&field.status=NEEDSINFO&field.status=ANSWERED&field.status=SOLVED&field.status-empty-marker=1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392887 in soyuz "Cannot delete PPA" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392887
<noodles775> If you have published to it already, it can only be disabled currently (which will soon mean that it is not displayed on your profile page)
<al-maisan> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/661
<al-maisan> pmcenery: ^^
<noodles775> al-maisan: hrm, I looked for that faq at: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faqs
<cumulus007> Hi, when will Ubuntu Karmic be open for translation?
<henninge> cumulus007: it has been for a month or so, AFAIK
<cumulus007> erhm, I mean Lucid :)
<henninge> cumulus007: me too ;)
<cumulus007> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid
<cumulus007> It gives an error message, "Translations for this release series are not available yet."
<henninge> cumulus007: are you talking about language packs?
<henninge> cumulus007: there are no language packs yet
<cumulus007> oh ok. When will the first pack be released?
<henninge> cumulus007: gunno
<henninge> dunno
<henninge> cumulus007: ask the ubuntu people
<henninge> ;-)
<henninge> in #ubuntu-translators for example
<cumulus007> Good idea
<henninge> cumulus007: ah, sorry about the confusion earlier. I see the translations because I am an admin.
<henninge> cumulus007: lucid is currently importing translations from the source packages.
<henninge> after that it will be opened to translators, I guess.
<cumulus007> ok, and how long does that take?
<henninge> I am not sure if it is just a matter of processing speed or also of policy
<cumulus007> ok, I'll just have to wait then :)
<cumulus007> henninge: thanks for the info
<pmcenery> noodles775: thanks. I filed a question, but have no idea if its in the right place
<noodles775> pmcenery: al-maisan (this weeks community help guy) will make sure it does :)
<al-maisan> pmcenery: thanks -- I'll look into it.
<AlexC_> morning
<AlexC_> a while back I merged some new translations and uploaded them, these new .pot files removed previous lang strings that are no longer needed, yet Launchpad has decided to keep them. Is there a way to remove them?
<dpm> henninge, ^
<MTecknology> How do translations work as far as in the package? Is there any magic voodoo that goes on so if somebody pulls the package from ppa lp will give them the package with the translations in it?
<lszyba1> hello, would anybody know why I get this error...I've checkout my code as anonymous user ...then I did bzr launchpad-id szybalski  (no messages so I assume it went fine)....but when I try to commit the checkout code it says:
<lszyba1>  Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()
<lszyba1> bzr status says: checkout of branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eszybalski/datahub/trunk/
<lszyba1> should that be automatically switched to bzr+ssh when I do bzr login-user or? what is the proper command?
<lszyba1> bzr 1.5 btw....
<spiv> lszyba1: "bzr bind lp:~szybalski/datahub/trunk", now that you've done bzr lp-login lp: URLs in future will be resolved to bzr+ssh
<spiv> lszyba1: but existing branches and checkouts will have remembered http
<spiv> (Also, install bzr 2.0 if you can, there are many improvements since 1.5)
<lszyba1> spiv: thank you ...it works now....I've added it to my little manual... http://www.lucasmanual.com/mywiki/Bazaar#Troubleshooting
<TeTeT> can I somehow make a public branch private?
<TeTeT> or do I mandatorily need the commercial subscription for this?
<beuno> TeTeT, private branches are only for commercial subscriptions
<TeTeT> beuno: thanks
<MTecknology> How do translations work as far as in the package? Is there any magic voodoo that goes on so if somebody pulls the package from ppa lp will give them the package with the translations in it?
<MTecknology> Or do I make different packages and apply the translations on top of it?
<apw> intellectronica, yo ... any idea when we might a fix for the nominations issue ... if its not going to be fixed to support packagesets we need to get our acls fixed
<mrooney> hey all, is there a way to copy packages from one PPA to another via the API?
<mrooney> I'd like to be able to automatically copy in packages from other PPAs into one PPA say on a weekly basis
<paulproteus> leonardr, Are you the right person to ask technical questions to about the Launchpad API? I create a Credentials file that worked yesterday, but after a few hours and an IP address change it gave me "401 Unauthorized".
<leonardr> paulproteus: ok, when you go to https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+oauth-tokens does the credential you authorized show up in there?
<paulproteus> leonardr, (yay, nice to hear back!)
<paulproteus> leonardr, Hmm, actually, a friend created the key. I'll create a new one and see if I can reproduce it with my own account so I can diganose it.
<geser> mrooney: yes, use the "syncSource" or "syncSources" method from the "archive" object (see https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/#archive; PPAs are archive objects too)
<mrooney> geser: awesome thanks, that seems pretty ideal, now I will google for an example :)
<leonardr> paulproteus: not sure what your situation is, but if you're reusing a friend's key a 401 Unauthorized doesn't seem out of the question
<paulproteus> Well, it's on a headless server...
<paulproteus> But anyway, I'll try it myself (-:
<kklimonda> is it possible to set an email for which all bug mails are sent?
<wgrant_> kklimonda: You mean for a particular project?
<kklimonda> wgrant_: no - I'd like to get all mails related to bugs sent to the different mail address..
<wgrant_> kklimonda: Ah. No. Can you not filter it?
<kklimonda> wgrant_: sure - I'm just going to just redirect them in this case. Just Thought I could do it on a LP itself
<thumper> kklimonda: you can set your preferred email addrss
<thumper> kklimonda: email by default goes to that address
<thumper> kklimonda: you can also specify a particular email address for particular launchpad mailing lists
<sproaty> trying to upload to launchpad revu with debput;
<sproaty> Good signature on /home/steve/Documents/sb/whyteboard_0.39.1-0ppa3.dsc.
<sproaty> Checksum doesn't match for /home/steve/Documents/sb/whyteboard_0.39.1-0ppa3.dsc
<sproaty> http://www.pastebin.org/57209
<sproaty> I don't get the error; changes doesn't match against *what*?
<sproaty> hmm, seem to have got it now.
<wgrant> sproaty: The checksum for the .dsc as shown in the .changes is not correct. That normally means you've rebuilt the .dsc since.
<sproaty> I deleted them and rebuilt the package with dpkg-buildpackage; I was using debuild before
<sproaty> lintian's complaining about "It looks like you try to run code in the binary-arch target of debian/rules, even though your package is architecture- independent. " -- should I move my install code to binary-indep: build install
<sproaty> whoops; http://www.pastebin.org/57213
<poolie> it's a good day when you go to file a bug report against launchpad and realize that the thing actually unexpected works already
<poolie> specifically entering an email address in the vocabulary picker
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys is it possible to find out the public key of a user using launchpadlib?
<wgrant> RoAkSoAx: Not yet.
<lifeless> wgrant: screen scrape?
<wgrant> lifeless: Better.
<RoAkSoAx> wgrant, ok :(
<wgrant> RoAkSoAx: You could use https://launchpad.net/~SOMEONE/+rdf
<wgrant> That's easily parsable, and contains key details.
<RoAkSoAx> wgrant, awesome. Thanks for the tip :)
<ajmitch> RoAkSoAx: for a bonus, it also works for a team
<RoAkSoAx> ajmitch, nice!!
#launchpad 2009-11-26
<dhillon-v10> hi all, one of my friends created a project and mistakenly changed the maintainer to someone else, can anyone help change it back to him, his project is called DebWiz
<spm> dhillon-v10: done
<dhillon-v10> spm, thanks you are awesome :)
<spm> heh, you're most welcome
<dhillon-v10> spm, are you an admin
<spm> yup
<dhillon-v10> spm, ahh that's why I tried really hard but no solution
<dhillon-v10> spm, can I apply to be an admin sometime
<spm> dhillon-v10: all admins are canonical employee's. Which suggests the logical step... :-)
<dhillon-v10> spm, ahh thanks for the info. I am the answer contact for launchpad and Ubuntu so I get a lot of these questions, that's why I was thinking I could change it but if something like this happens again I can just get in touch with you
<spm> dhillon-v10: generally we prefer that folks who have issues raise the request themselves via answers; it can then be appropriately shunted to those best able to solve the problem
<dhillon-v10> spm, yah this guy filed a question but no one replied so I decided to ask for help here for him
<spm> which Q#?
<dhillon-v10> spm, https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/91562
<spm> ahh I see. it looks like it just hasn't been picked up by the help person yet. that sometimes happens if you hit the right TZ when the Q goes in.
<dhillon-v10> spm, so what do you guys do as canonical engineers besides coding launchpad
<spm> sysadmin, not coder
<dhillon-v10> spm, ahh alright so is it a lot of fun? :)
<spm> ... I've had worse jobs. ;-)
<dhillon-v10> spm, lol nice
<dhillon-v10> spm, well nice taking to you gotta go bye
<spm> you too, cheers!
<spridel> i joined my loco on Launchpad, however when there is a bug report i get an e-mail and with every response i get an e-mail is there a way to get all messages in a digest(one lone e-mail) as opposed to 5 or 20 in a day?
<wgrant> spridel: There is no such option.
<spridel> alright need to change the e-mail addy for that acct then i guess
<spridel> ty wgrant
<wgrant> spridel: Why is your LoCo team getting bug mail at all?
<pwnguin> fun times
<pwnguin> (timeout) Error ID: OOPS-1426EA433
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1426EA433
<pwnguin> it seems the ubuntu report bug feature has been replaced by a link to an apport tutorial
<pwnguin> repeatable timeout
<pwnguin> if there's a way to recover the 'further information' text, that would be handy
<poolie> pwnguin: it's a timeout error, launchpad is apparently a bit overloaded atm or handling that page slowly
<poolie> so it is actually likely to get better in a minute or too
<poolie> two*
<sraps> HI! Is there anybody on duty today.... Would like to talk about project group creation.
<_habnabit> Is there any specific place on a project page to link to documentation?
<_habnabit> It doesn't seem like it.
<wgrant> _habnabit: You should probably just link to it in the description.
<_habnabit> Mmkay.
<nicoInattendu> Hi, In a project hosted in launchpad. Is it possible to link a PPA ?
<jml> nicoInattendu, easiest thing to do is change the description of the project.
<nicoInattendu> Ok is what I do : https://launchpad.net/luciole
<sraps> I have filed a question about group project creation, a week ago, but nothing have happened...
<sraps> What should I do
<flower> can I make a backport for a amd64 using launchpad? I have a 32 bit myself
<flower>  using this method: http://pastebin.com/m6fa3a5e1
<flower> for Ubuntu?
<micahg> flower: a PPA will compile the source for amd64 if the package will compile on it
<micahg> flower: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage
<micahg> flower: it actually builds for both amd64 and i386
<flower> micahg, what files do I need to upload the package?
<micahg> flower: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<flower> k
<ploum> hello
<ploum> is there an easy way to see a current diff between the trunk and a branch in a given launchpad project ?
<ploum> currently, I've to do a fake local merge to explore the diff with olive-gtk
<ploum> then revert the merge
<ploum> not optimal I think
 * olive -gtk ?
<ploum> olive: this is the name of the GTK bzr gui
<ploum> but I wanted to do that in Launchpad
<olive> yes I known ;)
<bac> al-maisan: have you been answering the email on feedback?  i see lots of email dating back to monday that appears to be unanswered.  did you cc: feedback on your replies?
<al-maisan> bac: I did cc: feedback, let me look at these emails.
<bac> al-maisan: i know sinzui has had trouble with posting to feedback.  perhaps yours suffer the same problem.
<al-maisan> bac: I may have deleted these emails inadvertently, how many unanswered emails do you see?
<bac> al-maisan: 1-215
<bac> al-maisan: 12 - 15, i mean
<al-maisan> pheww .. that's much better than 215 :P
<al-maisan> bac: could you bounce or forward these to me please?
<al-maisan> I am going through the open questions presently
<bac> al-maisan: how are you accessing feedback?  are you subscribed or using the shared imap folder?
<al-maisan> bac: I am subscribed
<al-maisan> bac: some of these matters I have already dealt with, e.g. mailing list approval for the ascot team
<al-maisan> but I will sift through all of them anyway
<bac> ok
<j^> hi, i have a question about project groups
<j^> i want to create a xiph project group and make i.e. theora part of that
<j^> i created https://launchpad.net/xiph and https://launchpad.net/theora
<j^> but can not link them
* al-maisan changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<jldupont> Hi - let's say I have a project on code.launchpad.net, is there a URL to a file resource that can be served with the source MIME-type?
<jldupont> in other words, if I have an HTML page in my repository, is there a way to view this page natively?
<jldupont> i.e. not through Loggerhead?
<beuno> jldupont, I don't think so, no
<jldupont> beuno:  that's a shortcoming... I come from GoogleCode and I do that all the time e.g. serve documentation through the SVN
<tsimpson> code hosting is supposed to be code hosting, not site hosting :)
<beuno> jldupont, what's the issue with loggerhead?  the mine-type?
<beuno> and yes, it's not site hosting (for now)
<jldupont> Use case:  have project X with documentation, store it in Bazaar
<jldupont> then have an URL pattern where documentation (in HTML) can be viewed natively in web browser
<beuno> right, we don't have a good story for that on Launchpad yet
<jldupont> sad day for me.
<jldupont> so you guys need yet another repository to publish your documentation...
<jldupont> yet another step
<jldupont> yet another thing to manage
<jldupont> isn't it annoying ??
<beuno> yes
<beuno> we're not proud of it, we just haven't gotten to it   ;)
<jldupont> where is the ticket I can "star" ?
<jldupont> or issue/bug, whatever you guys call it.
<tsimpson> on LP it's "bug"
<jldupont> ok
<beuno> jldupont, my guess would be bug 240067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240067 in launchpad-foundations "Launchpad needs a wiki" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240067
<jldupont> ubottu: but a wiki is another step...
<jldupont> unless it can be updated through pushing data through bazaar
<jldupont> hate to say it, but GoogleCode has this already...
<jldupont> even the "wiki" pages can be updated through an SVN commit...
<jldupont> LP has a great feature: the PPA functionality
<jldupont> but clearly in terms of overall integration, there are shortcomings.
<beuno> yes
<beuno> the idea would be to have bzr-backed wikis
<beuno> would solve a lot of use cases in one whack
<jldupont> that would help
<jldupont> sounds reasonable
<jldupont> just have a bit of makefile to update the wiki page
<beuno> or we can do it automatically
<beuno> good news is, Launchpad is open source
<beuno> if someone capable enough and with time comes along
<beuno> they can implement this before we do
<beuno> you can't say the same with google code  ;)
<jldupont> ;-)
<jldupont> where is the source code?
<jldupont> I mean, point me to it.
<tsimpson> https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting
<jldupont> wow!  it's huge!
<tsimpson> yes, it is
<thumper> jldupont: it is approx 390k lines of python
#launchpad 2009-11-27
<pmatulis> can a team set up a private PPA out of the box?
<bigjools> pmatulis: no, an admin has to do it
<pmatulis> bigjools: thx, anyone in particular?  what is the process?
<bigjools> you create the PPA yourself and before using it get the admin to flip the flag
<bigjools> just "ping losa" and they'll come a-runnin' :)
<pmatulis> bigjools: nice!
<bigjools> pmatulis: beware, once private always private though
<pmatulis> bigjools: alright
<zul> hi guys I am doing the canonical-application-support spec (https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-canonical-application-support) and was wondering if someone could answer a question for me regarding python-svn
<mattions> after how long a package uploaded to a personal PPA will show up?
<maxb> 5 minutes from upload to initial appearance, usually
<bigjools-afk> mattions: usually about 5 minutes at most
<jldupont> I keep getting "Unexpected error while decorating: xxx.yyy" when using Bazaar Plugin for Eclipse... any clue?
<beuno> verterok, ^
<jldupont> anyone?
<maxb> This sounds more #bzr than #launchpad territory
<noodles775> jldupont: #bzr might have more people...
<jldupont> oh yes... sorry guys!
<mattions> bigjools-afk: ok thanks. The upload finished like: "Successfully uploaded packages. Not running dinstall." It looks allright no?
<bigjools> mattions: it depends, if you didn't sign it or used a key not known to LP it will be ignored
<mattions> bigjools: this is the dput output
<mattions> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/329432/
<mattions> the key should be ok
<bigjools> mattions: it looks ok to me too
<mattions> this is the PPA page: https://launchpad.net/~mattions/+archive/neuronvisio
<bigjools> yeah I found it
<bigjools> let me see if I can find your upload in the logs, one moment
<bigjools> mattions: can you paste your dput.cf
<mattions> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/329437/
<bigjools> mattions: I can't see your upload in the logs at all
<bigjools> but your output doesn't match your dput.cf
<mattions> well
<mattions> I have no clue
<mattions> I prepare the package using stdeb
<mattions> then going into the directory
<mattions> and debuild -S -sa
<bigjools> mattions: it says "Upload package to host ubuntu" but your dput section is called "neuronvisio-ppa"
<bigjools> what dput command line are you using?
<mattions> I ran two
<mattions> the first one was wrong
<mattions> didn't put the ppa)
<mattions> this is the second one:
<mattions> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/329441/
<mattions> if I re-run it now I'm getting this that is quite ok : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/329442/
<bigjools> mattions: ah I see the problem
<mattions> enlight me
<bigjools> ~mattions/neuronvisio/ubuntu/ should be ~mattions/ubuntu/neuronvisio
<mattions> this guy here is wrong so: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<bigjools> mattions: sorry I am wrong
<mattions> some tool is lying us!
<bigjools> hmmm
<mattions> one thing: the mail used as manteiner in the package is different from the one used to sign the package
<bigjools> that's ok
<mattions> ok.
<mattions> now I tried something new. I followed the instruction on the launchpad PPA http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/329447/
<bigjools> mattions: ok I found your upload log
<mattions> timestamp?
<bigjools> 2009-11-27 15:10:17
<bigjools> it was rejected
<bigjools> Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<mattions> ah here we go
<bigjools> it sent email to your gmail
<mattions> wow
<mattions> didn't check
<bigjools> the earlier upload has vanished though, how odd
<mattions> my bad
<bigjools> ok :)
<mattions> bigjools: distribution can be only jaunty or karmic?
<mattions> not ubuntu or debian?
<bigjools> any PPA-supported series
<bigjools> Ubuntu series, that is
<bigjools> mattions: you can override the series with the upload path though
<mattions> how?
<bigjools> mattions: ~mattions/neuronvisio/ubuntu/karmic for example
<mattions> how can I put more than one?
<mattions> let's say karmic and jaunty?
<bigjools> you can't do that
<bigjools> you can use the copy-packages feature to copy between series
<bigjools> but you can't rebuild for the other series if you do that
<mattions> where I can read this stuff?
<bigjools> if it's not in the same place you were already looking then it doesn't exist :(
<mattions> how do you know so? did you write it?
<bigjools> yes, I am a developer on the project
<mattions> cool!
<mattions> bigjools: got another problem. I change the upload path
<mattions> bigjools: if the package was rejected
<mattions> why dput things is nicely uploaded?
<bigjools> mattions: because uploading is separate to the processing of the upload
<bigjools> dput uses FTP
<bigjools> at some point in the future we hope to use ssh-based uploads which will give more immediate feedback
<mattions> Now what I can do next?
<mattions> it says it happily uploaded the package
<mattions> but the package was rejected
<mattions> I modified the path so it should go on karmic
<mattions> if I tried too upload it just doesn't do it.
<mattions> Do you suggest delete the package and the reuploaded?
<cocooncrash> Hi, I can't seem to create merge requests via email anymore
<cocooncrash> I'm using Bazaar 2.0.0, and bzr send --no-bundle --no-patch to merge@code.launchpad.net
<cocooncrash> I get an email response saying "Your email did not contain a merge directive. Please resend your email with
<cocooncrash> the merge directive attached."
<cocooncrash> My email definitely has an attachment, and is signed.
<bigjools> mattions: dput -f to force the same upload
 * popey wonders how far and wide tht mail to launchpad-users is to be spread
 * bigjools 's email server blew up 2 days ago so hasn't seen it yet
<popey> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-users/msg05649.html
<popey> free license for balsamiq mockups
<bigjools> lol
<jml> popey, damage control procedures have been engaged
<popey> yanking the mail?
<popey> or voiding the code?
<popey> oh, i see
<popey> the key has been removed from the archive
<popey> nice
<popey> :)
<bigjools> poor old beuno
<beuno> popey, :(
 * popey hugs beuno 
<mattions> bigjools: victory
<bigjools> \o/
<bigjools> congrats
<mattions> thanks for the help
<mattions> now I set the distro properly
<mattions> however the copy distro is intriguing
<bigjools> you have 2 options if you want the same package in multiple distro series
<bigjools> 1. upload to the older series and copy with binaries to the newer
<bigjools> 2. upload a different version to the newer series so it gets rebuilt on that series
<mattions> older series of what?
<bigjools> mattions: distro series, e.g. jaunty, karmic
<mattions> but then I have to upload each time for each series
<mattions> I just want to do one and have the support in all of them
<bigjools> then you have the 2 options like I described
<mattions> let's say to get starte I upload my package to jaunty and karmic in two go.
<bigjools> your choice
<mattions> so I upload version 2 in karmic
<mattions> and also in jaunty the package is rebuilt?
<bigjools> you need to decide whether you want the same compiled binary in both series, or whether you need to re-compile for each
<bigjools> use option 1 for the former, 2 for the latter
<bigjools> you can't have the same version re-compiled in each series
<mattions> ok, thanks
<pitti> hello all
<pitti> any LOSA around? I was asked to rename a recently created project, but this requires some admin love
<mthaddon> pitti: sure
<pitti> in particular, https://launchpad.net/work-items-tracker should be lp-work-items-tracker or launchpad-work-items-tracker (whatever the naming convention is)
<pitti> mthaddon: hey, how are you?
<mthaddon> hi pitti
<mthaddon> pitti: rename done
<pitti> mthaddon: cool, thank you!
<mthaddon> np
<Imperion> why...
<Imperion> is...
<Imperion> launchpad...
<Imperion> so...
<Imperion> SLOW
<Imperion> today?
<Imperion> um, is there any way I can delete a bug?
<beuno> Imperion, not really
<Imperion> grumble
<ripps> So, since ubuntu is dropping lpia support, will launchpad ppa's be dropping it soon too?
<maxb> My guess would be that Launchpad PPAs will mirror the support of the corresponding distroseries - i.e. drop lucid, kept for earlier
<Imperion> sigh
<Imperion> it's been 5 minutes
<Imperion> and I can't open the stupid branches page
<Imperion> may $DEITY have mercy on me
#launchpad 2009-11-28
<cbmuser> hei, just tried to upload my first package to my PPA
<cbmuser> it was rejected stating my public can't be found
<cbmuser> but I have uploaded it with gpg --send-keys
<cbmuser> any idea?
<cbmuser> I can also import my public key on a different machine with --recv-keys
<beuno> cbmuser, is it on Launchpad?
<wgrant> cbmuser: Pastebin the error message that Launchpad sent you.
<wgrant> Launchpad doesn't send emails about missing public keys, so I suspect you uploaded to the wrong place.
<cbmuser> ok, then it sent it to debian -.-
<cbmuser> I built it on a debian machine, testing
<cbmuser> ok, now it was sent to the right place
<cbmuser> http://pastebin.org/58006
<cbmuser> thanks for the quick help
<wgrant> That will have just been rejected.
<wgrant> You uploaded binaries.
<cbmuser> argh :(
<wgrant> Do you at least have an email about it?
<cbmuser> I thought Debian unstable were the only one to have source-only uploads so far
<cbmuser> nope, no email yet
<wgrant> No. Ubuntu has had source only uploads for several years.
<cbmuser> oh, ok
<wgrant> You probably don't have your key associated with your Launchpad account?
<cbmuser> nope, you're right, sorry
<cbmuser> ok, associated
<cbmuser> wgrant: what next?
<cbmuser> how to create a source-only upload?
<idnar> Debian doesn't accept source-only uploads
<idnar> dpkg-buildpackage -S will give you a source-only build
<cbmuser> ok, got it
<cbmuser> another upload attempt?
<cbmuser> now, I get:
<cbmuser> Rejected:
<cbmuser> PPA uploads must be signed by an Ubuntu Code of Conduct signer.
<cbmuser> got it
<oly> hi, after some advise, my project consists of a core and a load of plugins whats the standard way of handling this ?
<oly> should i create a branch for each plugin ?
<oly> or should i include all plugins in the main branch or as a single seperate branch called plugins
<oly> i would like the ability to check out just the core or individual plugins still ideally
<AnMaster> hm an issue that I just noticed... when I go to https://code.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/trunk my browser tells me that part of the page is unencrypted
<AnMaster> irritating message really, and seems odd that part is unencrypted
<cutout> is it possible to install launchpad on a local server for private use?
<cutout> anyone?
<popey> I dont see why not
<cutout> from where can I get the package?
<cutout> I want to install it on ubuntu
<popey> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running
<popey> https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting
<cutout> thanks man you are great :D
<popey> np
<EnTeQuAk> hey there, just a small question: How do I give someone else access to my bzr branches?
<EnTeQuAk> I know that I can set a group while registering a new branch but is that even possible afterwards? I cannot find that anywhere?
<LarstiQ> EnTeQuAk: 2 possibilities
<LarstiQ> EnTeQuAk: you can either change the owner of the branch to a team
<LarstiQ> EnTeQuAk: or, you could just push another copy to the team
<LarstiQ> the latter saves having to look at the web ui, but could be slower if the branch is really big
<EnTeQuAk> the first sounds quite better
<EnTeQuAk> thanks LarstiQ
<LarstiQ> changing the owner happens in ~owner/project/branch/+edit btw
<cbmuser> wgrant: I've successfully uploaded my package to my PPA for lucid now
<cbmuser> when making karmic packages, do I simply need to rebuild for karmic and upload?
<cbmuser> do I need one package which covers all distributions?
<cbmuser> or one package-upload for each distro?
<geser> cbmuser: yes, one upload for each distro you want support
<cbmuser> ok, thanks
<cbmuser> so, I delete the .upload-file
<cbmuser> change the distro in the changelog and rebuild
<cbmuser> and upload
<cbmuser> or I can keep seperate dirs
<geser> as you can only upload a version once (if it's get accepted) you need to modify the version slightly (e.g. by appending the distro you target: ~jaunty1, ~karmic1, ...)
<cbmuser> geser: ah, ok
<cbmuser> thanks
<cutout> hi again is it possible to work with svn not bzr?
<mok0> I have the problem that creating a bzr repo under karmic makes it unusable from machines running a lower bzr version. Can I downgrade?
<mok0> The repo I mean
<zooko> Hey folks, I was trying to mark a bug as fixed upstream, and I see a warning: "Launchpad couldn't import bug #4 from setuptools Roundup".
<zooko> Why not?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 4 in rosetta "Importing finished po doesn't change progressbar" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/4
<zooko> What can I do to fix it?
<maxb> mok0: you should be able to pull/push the revisions into an older-format repo
<maxb> bzr help current-formats
<maxb> e.g. bzr init-repo --1.9-rich-root
<mok0> maxb: Ah, I tried bzr branch and that didn't work
<maxb> should do, define 'didn't work' ?
<mok0> maxb: I tried bzr branch bzr+ssh:... etc on a Lenny box to fetch a bzr repo created with the 2a format... it said it didn't understand the format
<maxb> well, yeah. You'd need to convert to the older format using a bzr that understands both formats
<mok0> maxb: I tried but it refused no matter what format I tried... it said it didn't know about any converters
<mok0> Anyway, I zapped .bzr and init'ed the repo with pack-0.92 format, which I also made the default
<mok0> It's bad though, to introduce a new incompatible format
<mok0> At least, the new bzr should be available in -backports
<CarlFK> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/intrepid/gst-editor/intrepid = "Cannot lock LockDir(lp-mirrored:///~ubuntu-branches ..."
<CarlFK> File exists: u'/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/mirrors/00/03/d0/52/.bzr/repository/lock': [Errno 17] File exists: '/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/mirrors/00/03/d0/52/.bzr/repository/lock'
<CarlFK> ah, never mind
<CarlFK> "Launchpad is processing new changes to this branch and will be           available in a few minutes. Reload to see the changes. "
<zooko> Well I suppose I should open a ticket against launchpad on launchpad and describe my problem.  Thanks, folks!
<moradan> Hello. I'm trying to start translation of an GPLed program (part of the GNU project - I've already get agreement with developers) with launchpad. The problem is that there is already a "dead" project on launchpad for this program (gretl). I've started another project, but my .po-file is in the state "need review" for about a month. Can anybody help me?
<moradan> My new project is called rugretl
<lifeless> moradan: well, for starters, is the program you are going to translate still gretl?
<moradan> yes - it is called Gretl
<moradan> gretl.sf.net
<lifeless> so why did you register rugretl?
<lifeless> what does the ru stand for?
<moradan> Because project gretl is already registered and during one month there was no response from its starter (I've tryed his emails from launchpad and devel mailng list and one another)
<lifeless> please file a question at answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<lifeless> you should ask for rugretl to be removed, and to get access to the gretl project
<moradan> ru stands for that probably there will be no other use of this project except translating help system into russian
<CarlFK> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=gst-editor  lists 6 PPAs, but how do I tell what package gives me gst-editor?
<henninge> moradan: please do what lifeless suggested. By policy, we do not accept projects that are just for translating into one language.
<henninge> moradan: rugretl should not have been approved in the first place.
<henninge> moradan: Please file a question explaining the situtation, so that we can resolve it.
<moradan> henninge: I have done it - https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/92075
<henninge> moradan: oh, cool.
<henninge> moradan: Good to see, that you are in contact with the developers, that is ver important.
<henninge> moradan: We will deal with next week.
<moradan> thanks a lot
#launchpad 2009-11-29
<jkakar> FYI, it looks like one of the loggerhead appserver is having issues.
<jkakar> At least, that's what I guess since I keep seeing "internal server error", but a reload works.
<lamothe> Are you guys aware of general weirdness with LP to do with bzr and Loggerhead?
<lamothe> Getting "Internal server errors".
<Jordan_U> Is the ability to create PPAs for debian a high priority with the increased collaboration for 10.04?
<Jordan_U> It would be very usefull to me
<ripps> Jordan_U: Many PPA's and ubuntu packages already work with Debian. I know a couple debian users use my gmpc-trunk and mpd-trunk ppas
<Jordan_U> Is launchpad down for everyone else?
<posulliv> yep, its down for me too
<anixx> hi! Why did you disappear?
<ChrisMorgan> launchpad came down right in the middle of branching lp:inkscape... I /finally/ looked at the website and discovered that it was getting a 302 to offline.html, the branch command didn't tell me anything, only bzr lp-login was telling me what was happening... :-(
<Jordan_U> I'd better file a bug report about launchpad being down
<ChrisMorgan> Jordan_U: yeah... on launchpad :/
<ChrisMorgan> It was down a while yesterday also
<ChrisMorgan> 503 would be better than 302.
<Peng> Should file a bug about that.
<ChrisMorgan> But you never can file a bug when you manage to reproduce it ;-)
<micahg> LP offline?
<^^Johnny5> The Ubuntu launchpad app seems down is this alright?
<ChrisMorgan> micahg: yep
<^^Johnny5> How long do you know?
<micahg> ChrisMorgan: scheduled?
<micahg> idr anything
<ChrisMorgan> It's been down for 10-15 minutes
<^^Johnny5> kk
<ChrisMorgan> I'm nothing to do with the Launchpad team... I was just in the middle of branching lp:inkscape
<Kubuntiac> Is Launchpad supposed to be down at the moment? ('Cause it is...)
<Peng> OK, someone needs to update the topic.
<^^Johnny5> Yes I know someone sad down for 10 min app
<Kubuntiac> Ah, cool.
<ChrisMorgan> Kubuntiac: it's been down for 15 minutes, we're all rushing in and reporting it :D
<ChrisMorgan> Bit more than 15 minutes actually
<Kubuntiac> :)
<Kubuntiac> It's probably down cause all the devs keep having to reply to questions like ours. lol
<^^Johnny5> lol
<lifeless> if it was scheduled, it would be in the title bar
 * Kamping_Kaiser has his answer *g*
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks ;)
<nigel_nb> is launchpad down?
<DBO> seconded
<Peng> nigel_nb: yes.
<lifeless> I'm escalating the problem now
<Bugsbane> Would be cool to have some automated kind of "ping IRC when launchpad goes up/down"
<ChrisMorgan|Away> I doubt I was the first to come in... so that's at least 8 so far to report it :P
<nigel_nb> Bugsbane: I think there is a system.... us :P
<Bugsbane> lol. HIS... "Human IRC System"
<nigel_nb> yeah
<Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: Only 2 people did it before you.
<nigel_nb> thanks Peng, always nice to know its not my side thats screwed up :)
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Ooh, I was an early one!
<Bugsbane> I predict this will spiral out of control, ending the world on December 21, 2012...
<lifeless> escalated, should be in progress very soon
<Bugsbane> Wait and see! ;)
<ChrisMorgan|Away> I didn't figure out what it was at first because the error messages were different inside TortoiseBzr and Bazaar Explorer
<Bugsbane> lifeless: Phew. The world may yet be saved
<Peng> .....for now!
<Bugsbane> Muhahahaha!
<mattman> so...... ubuntu one is apparently down. (sorry if i'm a little late). the offline.html page said to report it here.
<Bugsbane> BINGO! That makes 9. :)
<mistrynitesh> even the wiki is down
<mattman> went to register a friend a new account. oh great
 * Peng tries to remember what Ubuntu One is.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Bugsbane: must be a dozen by now?
<mattman> sorry then
 * Bugsbane is a bit slow
<mattman> that's the thing about irc.
<mattman> no history exactly
<ChrisMorgan|Away> No... only 9 :-(
<mattman> maybe someone did an rm -rf on the wrong server.
<Peng> mattman: Mibbit provides history. :D
* lifeless changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is down, fix is in progress | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<Peng> lifeless++
<Peng> Then again, nobody reads topics...
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: remember that Freenode blocked Mibbit?
<Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: Yeah, I know.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: when it's on entrance they tend to
<Bugsbane> Whats so evil about Mibbit?
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Bugsbane: nothing.
<andruk> i cant get to http://launchpad.net/
<nigel_nb> ChrisMorgan|Away: +11
<ChrisMorgan|Away> The thing is that /Freenode/ is evil.
<mattman> *feels stuipd*
<Peng> adn/topic
<Peng> andruk: /topic
<nigel_nb> thats 10
<Bugsbane> lol "Hey lets block a random service, just for the fun of it and see what people do!"
<Peng> The good thing about topics is that you can say "/topic" instead of spelling out the explanation every time.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> So nice people like us at http://portableapps.com/support/chat/live had to move from my nicely crafted PortableApps.com Mibbit skin to that mess which is webchat.freenode.net :-(
<Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: ...Or another IRC network.
<mattman> *considers writing script to count the references to 'launchpad' and 'down'
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: not an option, #portableapps has gained too much weight on Freenode, it'd kill it moving it.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> mattman: /me
<nhandler> lifeless: You might want to update @launchpadstatus
<roxan_> is there a way I can add PPA while launchpad is down
<Bugsbane> mattman: launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down
<mattman> been away from irc for VERY long.
<lifeless> nhandler: ?
<nhandler> lifeless: http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus
<Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: Oh, too bad.
<lifeless> nhandler: If the details for that are on the wiki... the wiki is down.
<lifeless> nhandler: so I might like to; but being *able* to is different ;)
<Bugsbane> nhandler: That seems to suggest Launchpad is just fine at the moment... :/
<Bugsbane> (the identica link)
<lifeless> should be back shortly; one proximate cause has been found and services are being bounced.
<Peng> Bugsbane: That was his point.
<andruk> Peng: thanks, i saw it change...
<Bugsbane> Ahhh...
 * Bugsbane is very slow
<DBO> wewt, its back
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm... i think the error page should be consistant in its use of <centre>
<Peng> Yay.
<tsimpson> but <centre> is depreciated in XHTML in favour of CSS
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Better still, just send a 503.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Much more descriptive.
<Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: They should indeed be using 503, but a useful page is still nice.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> 302 (Found) should not be used often at all, and definitely not here.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Now I really am away.
<Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: The status code and the page content aren't related.
<ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: I know, exactly.
* lifeless changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<ChrisMorgan|Away> You can still send offline.html's contents directly and use a 503
<Peng> Indeed.
<Kamping_Kaiser> well... crisis over. thanks for the updates :)
<Bugsbane> The world lives to see another day...
 * Peng will file a bug
<Peng> Which project, though? launchpad? launchpad-foundations?
<lifeless> Peng: whats the bug?
<Peng> lifeless: "Please try again" page does 302 Found instead of 503 Internal Server Error.
<Peng> Or...some other error code, anyway.
<Peng> Err, 503 Service Unavailable I meant. :D
<lifeless> Peng: please
<lifeless> do
<Peng> OK, but which project?
 * Peng will go with launchpad
<Jordan_U> Peng: That means it also breaks http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/launchpad.net which said it was just me the entire time :)
<Peng> That website reports "it's down" when it gets a 503?
<Jordan_U> Peng: I haven't found an explanation of what exactly it does but I would assume so
<tsimpson> HTTP 503 = Service Unavailable
<tsimpson> so if it's unavailable (offline), 503 is the most fitting error
<Peng> I filed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/489847. :D
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 489847 in launchpad ""Please try again" page should use 503 Service Unavailable, not redirect" [Undecided,New]
<wgrant> Peng: It always used to return a 503, but when they changed to this new-fangled reverse proxy thing it all went a bit odd.
<Peng> wgrant: I thought I remembered getting 503s in the past. Thanks for the explanation. :)
<Peng> I don't want to do it right now, but is it possible to get the secondary copies of a branch (served over HTTP and whatever) nuked and recreated from scratch?
<lifeless> Peng: ask-a-losa
<lifeless> or change the format
<Peng> I suppose I could temporarily put up an empty branch with a different format...
<lifeless> you could use sftp to move the repo to .bzr/fooish
<lifeless> and use bzrlib to make a repo with $other format
<Peng> Yeah.
<Peng> (Well, I'd use hitchhiker.)
<Peng> I took care of it that way. :)
<Peng> Although I badly broke the secondary copy... :D
<Peng> How many secondary copies are there nowadays? Just the one, for HTTP and read-only bzr+ssh?
<wgrant> Peng: That's right.
<wgrant> Just two instances of the branch are stored: hosted and mirrored.
<Peng> OK.
<shiki-> hello everyone
<Peng> If the mirror-creator thought the hosted copy was horribly broken last time it tried, how long until it tries again?
<wgrant> Peng: I don't know, but I guess it might not until you either call requestMirror or lock and unlock.
<Peng> Wow, I'm totally transferring data from LP at 25 Mbps.
<Peng> Over bzr+ssh!
<shiki-> ehm
<wgrant> Peng: You must be in the DC or somethingl
<Peng> wgrant: A DC, but it's in Texas.
<Peng> wgrant: ....I don't know how to run requestMirror.
<Peng> Sorry for wasting a bunch of your bandwidth. >.>
<wgrant> Peng: launchpadlib. Get hold of a branch, call requestMirror()
<Peng> Wait, requestMirror() does hosted -> mirrored? It's not just for mirrored branches?
<wgrant> Peng: Correct.
<Peng> Neat.
<Peng> It's all the same to the puller, I guess.
<wgrant> Right. One is just pulled from a local location.
<Peng> Alright, I'll set up launchpadlib. I've been needing to for a long time anyway, since I have a lot of mirrored branches.
<Peng> Thanks for the encouragement, wgrant. requestMirror() is very nice (though launchpadlib has a frightening number of dependencies).
<wgrant> Peng: What does it need? I cannot think of anything particularly abnormal besides wadllib and lazr.restfulclient.
<wgrant> Mmm, I guess lazr.uri and oauth too.
<wgrant> But this is why we have apt.
<Peng> wgrant: I dunno. I used setuptools; it pulled in several thousand zope packages.
<wgrant> Oh. Because of the lazr.restful test dependency.
<wgrant> I filed a bug on that a few months ago.
<wgrant> It's only needed for tests, but is declared as a full dep.
<Peng> pytz, epydoc, simplejson, httplib2, elementtree...
<nhandler> mok0: Look at the paste I sent you. It shows the process
<mok0> Right
<mrooney> Launchpad seems to be giving me 2 po files that fail a msgfmt -c, it seems to be doing odd things with plurals, should I file a bug?
<lifeless> mrooney: sure
<sproaty> uh, I dunno how but somehow my project's got ubuntu package links? https://launchpad.net/whyteboard/+packages  - I didn't make them, only one before. I have filled [needs-packaging] though, could that be it?
<sproaty> also, can I link my ppa to the project somehow?
<thumper> sproaty: I think anyone can link a project to a package
<wgrant> sproaty: As thumper says, anybody can add links you can remove them at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whyteboard.
<wgrant> And no, at this point you cannot link a project to a PPA, except by adding a URL to the description.
<sproaty> ah ok, I've done that
<sproaty> I'll leave the links there so if it does get packaged they're already there
#launchpad 2010-11-29
<MTecknology> Is there any way to subscribe to all bugs in a particular package in ubuntu? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx
<MTecknology> err- ignore that
<fta2> dpm, ping
<dpm> fta2, jtv, got some time to talk about chromium translations in LP?
<jtv> hi fta2
<fta2> hi
<fta2> dpm, want to lead?
<dpm> fta2, ok, let's start, please correct me if necessary
<fta2> sure
<dpm> jtv, so as far as I know the only blocker right now are some templates that fta2 removed from the code and he's waiting to go away from LP. For some reason (a bug) we cannot just disable them in LP, so we were hoping for some advice here
<dpm> as I said last week, I'm not familiar with the "going away" part, but IIRC, fta2 has seen this happening in the past, and he's been in touch with danilo and Henning about it
<fta2> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+templates  (google-chrome-strings & devtools-strings are no longer in the imported branch, but are still in the lp export branch)
 * jtv looks
<jtv> (Sorry if I'm a little slow; my router broke and now I'm connected through my mobile phone)
<fta2> :)
<dpm> fta2, in the meantime, can you remember the bug no. that caused problems in LP after disabling templates?
<fta2> hm, either bug 655077 or bug 656776 (or both
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 655077 in Launchpad Translations "Breakage when importing translations from bzr branch (affected: 2, heat: 10)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655077
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 656776 in Launchpad Translations "Import queue entries may suffer from brain split. (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656776
<mvo> hello, what is the appropriate way to fix the stacked branch origin for http://code.launchpad.net/vmbuilder ? it changes from ~ubuntu-virt to ~vmbuilder-dev and now none of the old branches can be merged into trunk. I filed a bug (bug #681431) but I imagine I need LOSA assistance to change the stacked branch for the old branches?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 681431 in Bazaar "confusing error when original stacked branch becomes invalid later (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681431
<jtv> Unfortunately I'm not getting anything web-shaped through my connection atm.
<dpm> thanks fta2
<dpm> jtv, that's fine. If you've got a better connection later on and you've got some time, do you think you could ping fta2 and me if you find out anything else? The bug numbers are there ^ for reference
<jtv> It worked earlier.  Not much use discussing bugs I can't see.  :-(
<jtv> I'll keep the tabs open and see if they reload from time to time.
<jtv> Really sorry about this.
<jtv> Ah, that first page (the templates list) did load now.
<jtv> 8 minutes?  Not promising.
<fta2> i also have concerns with bug 669831 but if you can't see it..
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 669831 in Launchpad Translations "obsolete translations exported to the branch (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669831
<fta2> with traces here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/translations/trunk/converter-output.html
<idnar> I'm getting OOPS-1794C967 trying to view a merge proposal (for a private branch, if that matters)
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1794C967
<idnar> is there some way I can work around that? I don't think I can even delete the proposal
<jtv> fta2, dpm: my pages just loaded.  Reading through the bugs now.
<jtv> fta2: I see no more import queue entries for those templates you wanted to disable, so ISTM you can just disable them now.
<jtv> (They're deleted from the branch, from what I understood, so they shouldn't re-appear unless they got identified with the wrong paths.  I'll check for that now.)
<fta2> jtv, last time, it made the importer crash
<jtv> Paths look fine.  So unless the branch still contains these POT files somewhere, from how I read the bug reports, it should be safe to deactivate the templates now.
<fta2> but the templates were still in the branch
<jtv> Right, that was the whole problemâyou update the branch, the branch still offers those files up for import.  The approver looks for matching, active, existing templates and find none (since they're disabled).  And so it goes "oh I guess these are new then" and tries to create new onesâwhich of course were exact matches for the disabled ones, and so violated a unique constraint.
<fta2> jtv, so what should i do? i'm no longer feeding those pot/po to lp. just disable the templates in the UI and wait, what, 3d?
<jtv> fta2: no, the 3-day wait was only for any remaining Imported or Deleted queue entries to be cleaned up.  I'd disable them now, and pushing a commit to the branch so we can observe what happens.
<jtv> We should see the uploads appear on the queue within a few minutes.
<fta2> hm ok. how do i do that?
<fta2> i put on "inactive", is that it?
<fta2> one
<jtv> You un-check the "Accept translations?" checkbox in the templates' administration forms.
<jtv> I'll want to find these "rosetta/deleted-templates" templates that one of the bugs refers to, so we don't run into that one again.
<jtv> â¦and as so often, network problems can be solved by not using the DNS servers my provider gives me
<jtv> Good, nothing in the deleted-templates queue to mess things up for us.
<jtv> fta2: did you just disable inspector-strings?  I thought it was devtools-strings and google-chrome-strings you wanted to disable?
<jtv> (Not that there are any uploads for inspector-strings that might foil us; as long as its file is no longer in the branch this shouldn't give us any trouble either)
<fta2> jtv, ok, let's assume this one is ok. next is bug 669831. it's supposed to be fixed, yet i see it's not
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 669831 in Launchpad Translations "obsolete translations exported to the branch (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669831
<fta2> it looks like it won't be until each po file is touched
<dpm> fta2, jtv seems to have got disconnected, so you might have to ask him again when he's back (although it might as well be the EOD in his timezone)
<fta2> ok
<fta2> dpm, anyway, the templates seems hidden now, and i still have a workaround for the 2nd bug, you can make the announcement now
<fta2> -s
<dpm> fta2, awesome \o/. Let me get some lunch, start drafting the announcement and show it to you for review before publishing it
<fta2> ok
<Styx``> hi, could you tell me if there is a way to disable mailing while a bug is repported in a project or a response to this bug is posted ?
<nigelb> dont' subscribe to the bug reports?
<Styx``> Yes, it is, I think it's what I'm looking for.
<Styx``> I've applied a filter on Reply-To : *@bugs.launchpad.net it's ok, thanks, bye
<cjohnston> jamesh: ping
* bac` changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ : pulling (imports, mirrors) now fixed | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: bac | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<bac`> Hi Launchpadders.  I'm the help contact today so please send me your questions if you have any.
<bigjools> thanks for covering bac
<bac`> bigjools: np.  thanks for starting the conversation.
<bigjools> bac`: it needed starting :)
<RenatoSilva> I have a patch for a new feature on a specific project, but I'm lazy to create an account on their tracker and I think they don't care too much about it. Is it worth reporting a wishlist bug in Launchpad for keeping a patched version of the project in Ubuntu?
<kiko> RenatoSilva, it's a valid approach
<tseliot> hi all. My packages have been built in a private PPA but the PPA says that some packages haven't been published yet, despite the fact that the "Published" column says that they were published 47 minutes ago. Any ideas?
<bigjools> tseliot: can you PM the PPA details and I'll look
<tseliot> sure, thanks
<maxb> tseliot: I think the column is saying that the source has been published - which is distinct from the binaries being published
<tseliot> maxb: ok but it's taking a little long to publish the binaries, I guess
<maxb> How long is it since the binaries finished building?
<maxb> Last I heard it was supposed to happen within ~ 5minutes, but when the publisher gets backlogged, something more like ~20 is not unprecedented
<bigjools> and that's exactly the case :(
<bigjools> a huge batch just went through
<cody-somerville> Why does the drop down for 'Configuration options' on main page of projects animate so slowly?
<lifeless> does seem 'so slow' to me
<lifeless> about 3/4 of a second
<lifeless> with shiny accel/decel
<cody-somerville> Yea. Doesn't work so well with Firefox 3.6.12. Works fine with Chromium
<lifeless> file a bug ;)
* wallyworld changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ : pulling (imports, mirrors) now fixed | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: wallyworld | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<wallyworld> Hello, I'm the help contact for the day so let me know if you have any questions.
<soren> https://launchpad.net/~nova-core/+archive/trunk/+build/2069633  finished an hour ago, still uploading?
<wallyworld> soren: appears so
<wallyworld> soren: doesn't seem right. looking into it now
#launchpad 2010-11-30
<bdrung> i have some issue with the daily build: Unable to load plugin 'builder' from '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/bzrlib/plugins' https://launchpadlibrarian.net/59824676/buildlog.txt.gz
<wgrant> soren: We've just fixed that build. But it failed to upload because a newer one finished already.
<wgrant> soren: So everything looks OK now.
<wallyworld> bdrung: looking now
<wallyworld> bdrung: it appears there's a config problem on Canonical's end, which is being looked at. I'll ping you when I have some more information
<bdrung> wallyworld: thanks
<wallyworld> bdrung: np. the person i am waiting for input on may not be able to respond straight away. want me to email you any status update?
<wallyworld> bdrung: you still there? do you have a link to the actual build in addition to the log you posted?
<wallyworld> bdrung: seems like an issue with just the one server. you could try building again and it should work, fingers crossed
<thumper> wallyworld: it could be 10 builders... it seems that several new builders were added
<thumper> wallyworld: we should check with bigjools later
<wallyworld> thumper: ok, i'll send him an email. i've already mailed james_w and lamont
<lamont> wallyworld: thanks for the email, fixing that machine now :(
<lamont> there may still be a machine or two, I'd love to hear about any similar ones
<wallyworld> lamont: np. thanks for looking at it so promptly :-) would it be wise to check the other newly added machines too?
<lamont> it's actually the ones that were new sometime (specific) last week. :(
<lamont> and checking them is problematic
<wallyworld> lamont: i only know about that one case so far - i'll be sure to tell you if any more come by way :-)
<lamont> or at least annoyiung
<wallyworld> s/by/my
<lamont> should be a quantity approximating zero.
<wallyworld> here's hoping :-)
<lamont> wallyworld: and the build url is much more helpful to me than the buildlog, should a similar occasion arise.. (I can get from the url -> log, but not the other way without pain)
<wallyworld> lamont: np. i think i included the url in the email? i only got the log from the user who reported the problem but got help from aaron to get the url
<lamont> you did included it (and you clearly understand the pain I feel when they give me just the log)
<wallyworld> well, aaron does, and i'm starting to :-)
<lamont> to be fair, I've thus far gotten away with "give me a url if you want me to check on that, kthx"
<wgrant> lamont: Are they not running the latest lp-buildd?
<lamont> wgrant: there were a few, it seems, that got missed
<wgrant> lamont: It seems like buildd-manager should disable them.
<lamont> on the bright side, I can now actually log in and check these things
<lamont> build-manager can't even query them to find out what version they're running
<wgrant> Well, it *should* be able to.
<wgrant> And then we have FFs or something specifying the allowable versions.
<wgrant> And anything else gets disabled.
<lamont> +99
<matthewg42> Hi.  I have a local bzr repository with a bound copy of the trunk of my project (lp:stellarium).  It's quite a big project and my pipe is not so fat.  I branched a local feature branch, which i wish to upload to launchpad.  How can I do this efficiently?  I did this before, but it uploaded the whole thing and took forever.  Is there a way I can branch from lp:stellarium on the lp servers without havin to upload every
<matthewg42> If figure if I can do the main branch on the lp servers directly (and fast), I can then merge in my local branch to that to sync them up.  This means I don't have to download or upload the whole repo...  Is this a sane expectation?
<exarkun> I don't understand https://edge.launchpad.net/twisted/main/+addrelease
<exarkun> Can I skip the milestone part?
<wgrant> exarkun: A release is a special case of a milestone. So you need to select an existing milestone or create a new one.
<lifeless> exarkun: you can automate it
<lifeless> exarkun: but not skip it
<lifeless> exarkun: there are a few scripts around already that automate it
<exarkun> maybe someday I'll want to use one of those
<exarkun> right now, it only takes about 2 clicks to create a milestone, so I'm not extremely concerned with the manual labor
<matthewg42> maybe my question is better suited to #bzr eh?
<exarkun> it's mostly a problem because I have no idea what a milestone is, or what any of its attributes might be
<wgrant> matthewg42: Which version of bzr are you using?
<matthewg42> 2.2.1
<wgrant> matthewg42: Where'd you push the branch to?
<matthewg42> I didn't push anywhere yet.  My question is essentially...  push takes too long because it sends then entire local repository branch over the network, when 99% of the data already exists in the trunk branch in lp.
<wgrant> matthewg42: Branches should automatically stack on lp:stellarium -- that is, they will only upload new data.
<matthewg42> I /will/ push to lp:~matthew-porpoisehead/stellarium/nightmode
<wgrant> Your '
<wgrant> Your 'satellites' branch stacked.
<matthewg42> hmm.  didn't last time
<wgrant> Your 'deltat' branch did not.
<wgrant> Not sure why.
<matthewg42> yeah, I created satellites before I started using a local repo
<wgrant> You should see a message about stacking when you push up your next one.
<matthewg42> so originally my local satellites was a full checkout of lp:stellarium
<wgrant> matthewg42: So, just push it up. It should work.
<matthewg42> since then I did bzr init-repo, checked out lp:stellarium into a branch called "trunk" locally, and made deltat as a local branch of that.  then when I pushed deltat, lp didn't figure out that it was a branch of lp:stellarium
<wgrant> You didn't terminate the first push then push again?
<wgrant> Or create the branch through the UI first?
<matthewg42> what do you mean "create the branch through the UI first"?
<matthewg42> via the web site?
<wgrant> Sorry, the web UI, yes.
<matthewg42> I was working from the bzr docs which talk about doing stuff on the lp site.
<matthewg42> how do I do that?
<wgrant> There is a (pointless) link there to create a branch.
<wgrant> You don't want to use it.
<wgrant> Just wondering if you did last time.
<matthewg42> sorry... new to distributed vcs!
<matthewg42> I don't think I used the GUI
<wgrant> So, try pushing to lp:~matthew-porpoisehead/stellarium/nightmode. It should tell you at the start that it's stacking on lp:stellarium or similar.
<matthewg42> k
<wgrant> If not, we will debug.
<matthewg42> "Using default stacking branch /~stellarium/stellarium/trunk at lp-67423056:///~matthew-porpoisehead/stellarium"
<matthewg42> looks like it's working.  :D
<wgrant> Yep.
<wgrant> Stacked on:
<wgrant> lp:stellarium
<matthewg42> thanks.  don't know what I did the delta-t branch!
<wgrant> Success.
<matthewg42> must have done something differently.
<matthewg42> I have no clue what.  OK, well that makes me feel a lot better about making feature branches in this way now.
<matthewg42> Well thank you for your help.
<wgrant> matthewg42: If you work out what you did different with the other one, I'd be interested to know.
<matthewg42> me too
<matthewg42> and I'd like to fix it if possible.  I assume the deltat branch is taking up a lot of unnecessary disk space on lp's servers
<matthewg42> wgrant: I see a difference when I do bzr info...
<matthewg42> deltat has one additional line of output: submit branch: /media/loop/stellarium/trunk
<matthewg42> hang on, I'll pastebin the whole thing for you
<matthewg42> wgrant: http://pastebin.ca/2006542
<matthewg42> what sets this submit branch?
<wgrant> That's probably unimportant. It was something different about the way you pushed.
<matthewg42> oh
<matthewg42> the command I pushed with just now (successfully) is: bzr push lp:~matthew-porpoisehead/stellarium/night
<wgrant> Right.
<matthewg42> Perhaps...  I had uncommitted changes in my local trunk when I pushed deltat... would that do it?
<matthewg42> I don't generally have uncommitted changes in my local trunk, but it is possible.
<wgrant> I doubt it. The most common cause is that you start a push, terminate it before it finishes, then repush.
<matthewg42> That is also possible.  I'm control-C happy.
<matthewg42> Is there anything I can check to see what I might have done?
<wgrant> ~/.bzr.log should have timestamps for each command.
<matthewg42> aha
<matthewg42> I think you're right:  bzr arguments: [u'push', u'--remember', u'lp:~matthew-porpoisehead/stellarium/deltat'] .... KeyboardInterrupt
<matthewg42> It appears I remembered that I should check to see if there were any changes to merge from lp:stellarium because the next thing I did was:
<wgrant> There's apparently a bug for that. But I can't find it.
<matthewg42> bzr arguments: [u'commit', u'-m', u'merge from trunk']
<matthewg42> then I pushed again
<wgrant> Hah.
<wgrant> Yeah, so you should try to avoid Ctrl+C'ing the initial push.
<matthewg42> OK, noted.
<matthewg42> I don't want to clog up lp's servers with full branches
<matthewg42> if I remove the branch on lp now, and push again my deltat will it create a stakced branch ok?
<wgrant> Yup.
<matthewg42> (I just want to check that removing the branch on lp actually removes it and clears state, and doesn't do some "clever" stuff just making it as removed until I try to push again)
<matthewg42> OK, I'll do that.
<wgrant> You'll probably have to reasociate the blueprint, but apart from that it'll work fine.
<matthewg42> wgrant: thank you for your help.  most useful.
<matthewg42> Are there plans to implemented a "feature request" system?  I find the wishlist bug status to be unsatisfying.
<lifeless> matthewg42: not that I'm aware of
<fta2> hi. is there a problem with the ppa publishing task?
<fta2> https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1379136/+listing-archive-extra  says "i386 - Pending publication", but https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/2070063 says it "Finished 1 hour ago"
<fta2> isn't it supposed to be 15min?
<wallyworld> fta2: not sure, i'll have a look
<fta2> wallyworld, thanks
<wallyworld> wgrant: ^^^^^^ any ideas?
<wallyworld> fta2: i am trying to find a packaging person to help with your issue; i'll email or irc once we know something
<wgrant> fta2: It's meant to be every 5 minutes, but it was down to every 20 earlier this morning. I'm not sure what's happening now.
<soren> wgrant: Yes, it eventually failed because a newer one landed before it. It still took hours for it to upload.
<wgrant> soren: It was hit by a race condition which knocked it out of the incoming queue. We manually moved it back in, and a minute later it was processed (and rejected) as expected.
<wgrant> We believe that the race is fixed, but the fix is not yet deployed.
<soren> wgrant: Ah, ok. Cool, thanks.
<wallyworld> wgrant: with the above issue, the amd64 build got published fine, it's just the i386 build that's busted
<wgrant> wallyworld: The i386 build finished half an hour later.
<wallyworld> wgrant: yes, but it's *still* pending publication all this time later?
<wgrant> Right, something must have broken in that half-hour interval.
<wallyworld> wgrant: i've been called for dinner. is there something that needs to be poked to fix it?
<wgrant> wallyworld: Julian should be around soonish, so you can probably eat.
<wallyworld> wgrant: thanks :-) i'll ping him after dinner
<wgrant> fta2: Should all be good now.
<wallyworld_> wgrant: you fix something?
<wgrant> wallyworld_: No -- see #launchpad-dev.
<wallyworld_> wgrant: ok. thanks
<ali1234> i just noticed a bug i reported on bugs.meego.com in my launchpad page and i was wondering why...
<ali1234> this is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rpm/+bug/635491
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 635491 in RPM "rpm-python.spec refers to non-existing rpm.spec (affected: 1, heat: 5)" [Low,Triaged]
<ali1234> is someone automatically pulling in all bugs from BMO or something?
<nigelb> There is a remote watch enabled
<nigelb> Is launchpad.net/~n3npq you?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> the original description of the bug is verbatim copy of what i wrote on meego bugzilla
<ali1234> and accredited to me
<ali1234> so it's not like someone independantly reported it and then set up the watch
<nigelb> Probably
<nigelb> Its the other way around I guess
<ali1234> sorry, i don't understand
<nigelb> If you notice in the oringal description
<nigelb> It says "In Meego #5546, Alistair Buxton wrote on 2010-08-18"
<ali1234> yes, that's me
<nigelb> So, its pulling from the meego bug tracker into lp
<nigelb> And because you use the same email id on the meego bugzilla and your lp account, lp accredited it to you
<nigelb> (yes, lp does remote bug watches, but I'm not sure how far, perhaps somone from the lp team will answer that)
<ali1234> yeah i am familiar with remote watches, but normally they don't look like this
 * nigelb pokes wallyworld_ 
<ali1234> anyway i was just curious :)
<wallyworld_> nigelb: hi
<nigelb> Oh, great :)
<nigelb> wallyworld_: Can clear up ali1234's query (you're the CHR :D )
<wallyworld_> nigelb: let me read the previous context :-)
<nigelb> I think this has something to do with remote bug tracker importing that we enabled some time back :-)
<wallyworld_> nigelb: i just finished dinner :-)
<nigelb> wallyworld_: I was afraid it was EOD and was just typing "he probably is at EOD.." when you said Hi ;)
<wallyworld_> nigelb: np. i'll see what i can do to help
<nigelb> \o/
 * nigelb hugs wallyworld_ 
<wallyworld_> nigelb: ali1234: i'm not an launchpad expert (yet) so let me look into it a bit. if i can't resolve it now, i'll pass it on and ensure someone can follow up
<wallyworld_> ali1234: you want the remote watch removed? or just an explanation?
<ali1234> just an explanation
<ali1234> afaik to make a remote watch there needs to be an existing bug in launchpad, but that doesn't seem to be the case here
<wgrant> ali1234: Ah, there's a bit of a bug here.
<ali1234> so looks like the bug was imported some other way, and that got me interested
<wgrant> ali1234: We now import comments from remote bugs.
<wgrant> ali1234: And Launchpad assumes that the earliest comment in a bug is the original description.
<wallyworld_> ali1234: hmmm. i have a poke around and see what i can find. what's your launchpad nick?
<wgrant> ali1234: One of the imported comments predates the Launchpad bug, so Launchpad thinks it's the original description.
<ali1234> wgrant: that would make sense, but shouldn't there be a comment somewhere like "bug watch added by ..."
<nigelb> wgrant: So, this is like some kind of race case and a bug in lp?
<ali1234> ah, full activity log...
<wgrant> Is it just me, or have all the sprites vanished?
<ali1234> ok thanks everyone, i think i understand what is going on now :)
<wallyworld_> wgrant: thanks again for helping :-)
<nigelb> wgrant: sprites?
<wgrant> nigelb: Icons.
<nigelb> I got that bit, but I can figure out which ones are missing.
<wgrant> Hm, no, just Chromium being stupid.
<nigelb> I see all the icons I should see except the ones I got used to with the greasemonkey plugin
<tseliot> bigjools: are you there?
<bigjools> tseliot: yep
<bdrung> wallyworld_: here's the link: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~audacity-team/+recipe/daily.karmic
<wallyworld_> bdrung: thanks. we figured it out :-) there was an issue on a build server which should now be fixed
<bdrung> wallyworld_: thanks. now even natty works!
<wallyworld_> \o/
<bdrung> wallyworld_: but karmic still fails: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~audacity-team/+recipe/daily.karmic/+build/9537
<wallyworld_> bdrung: ok. that's a different server. may be a problem on that one too :-( wanna try building again? i'll take a closer look at the logs
<bdrung> wallyworld_: should i trigger it again?
<wallyworld_> bdrung: give it a go - it will hopefully pick a different server to run on. in the meantime i'll see what can be found
<wallyworld_> bdrung: confirmed - it appears to be another server with the same config issue. getting a sys admin onto it
<wallyworld_> bdrung: sys admin tells me that server is now fixed. hopefully last one, but....
<bdrung> wallyworld_: this time it works. so at least radium is fixed. ;)
<wallyworld_> bdrung: cool :-)
<bdrung> wallyworld_: how do i get rid of the "Failed to build" item at the top of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~videolan/+recipe/master-daily
<wallyworld_> bdrung: not sure. i can ask the guy who did a lot of that work when he comes online
<bdrung> wallyworld_: thanks
<wallyworld_> bdrung: np. he may well just say that it will disappear in time when more builds are done but i'm not sure
<bdrung> wallyworld_: last question: where can i subscribe for build failures (recipe and ppa)?
<bdrung> wallyworld_: this item has no value in the time column
<wallyworld_> bdrung: you should be notified of your own recipe builds, no?
<bdrung> wallyworld_: yes, but i am not notified for the team recipe builds
<wallyworld_> bdrung: the time column will be the last successfult build, but there's also a "started" time too
<wallyworld_> bdrung: ah ok. i would have thought you would be. i'll check that too
<wallyworld_> bdrung: i know recipes are still a bit of work in progress so that notification bit may still be being worked on
<bdrung> wallyworld_: the strange is that i get notifications for the audacity team, but not for the videolan team
<bdrung> therefore i have to manually check if the daily vlc builds were successful
<wallyworld_> bdrung: do you have access to the videolan team settings you can look at?
<bdrung> wallyworld_: i am administrator in the videolan team
<wallyworld_> bdrung: but you are the owner of the audaciity team so maybe there's an issue there.
<wallyworld_> bdrung: i will look into it
<bdrung> wallyworld_: yes
<wallyworld_> bdrung: i'm told that the videolan team has a contact address set, hence notifications will go there, no tto team members
<bdrung> wallyworld_: and there is no way for a user to subscribe to the notifications?
<wallyworld_> bdrung: don't believe so :-(
<wallyworld_> bdrung: but will double check
<wallyworld_> bdrung: sorry, it appears there's no way around it
<bdrung> wallyworld_: is there a whishlist bug for it?
<wallyworld_> bdrung: i wouldn't be surpised if there were but you could create one and see if any dups are shown
<bdrung> wallyworld_: against which project should i file the bug?
<wallyworld_> bdrung: launchpad-foundations
<bigjools> there's already a soyuz bug
<bigjools> it's not a foundations bug
<bigjools> wallyworld_, bdrung: ^
<wallyworld_> bigjools: oh sorry, i assummed that notification infrastructure was foundatrions. oops
<bdrung> bigjools: do you have the bug number?
<bigjools> wallyworld_: what notification infrastructure? :)
<bigjools> not at hand, one sec
<bigjools> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/341973 and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/408278
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 341973 in Soyuz "PPA build notifications go to entire team (affected: 0, heat: 0)" [Medium,Triaged]
<wgrant> It's Soyuz/Code/Registry/Foundations.
<bdrung> bigjools: these two bugs are about the opposite - i want the mails, the bug reporter don't want them
<bigjools> bdrung: see the latter bug.  It's all connected, I might dupe them.
<bigjools> we need a configurable system
<bdrung> bigjools: yes, something like the system for bzr branches
<maxb> Actually I find the behaviour complained against in bug 341973 to be intensely helpful for checking up on breakage by other people in team PPAs :-)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 341973 in Soyuz "PPA build notifications go to entire team (affected: 1, heat: 8)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/341973
<bigjools> if you do a search for "notification" in the soyuz bugs, there's plenty of opinions :)
* wallyworld_ changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ : pulling (imports, mirrors) now fixed | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<geekosopher> I am getting this error when I try to visit http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~duanedesign/clicompanion/trunk/files since last 10 mins... 'Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.'
<geekosopher> still the same error
 * CardinalFang reports Bug #683129.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 683129 in Launchpad itself "importing subversion branch causes empty error message (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683129
<abentley> jml: I would like there to be a PPA with the latest testtools crack for Maverick.  Do you want to set it up, or should I?
<jml> abentley: launchpad.net/~testing-cabal/+archive/archive
<jml> abentley: that's builds of trunk
<abentley> jml: great, thanks.
<abentley> jml: we really need to make PPAs more discoverable.
<jml> abentley: heck yes
<bigjools> jml: we discussed that once before, didn't we have some ideas?
<bigjools> there's a search page but nobody seems to use it
<jml> bigjools: we might have, I don't remember.
<jml> I want to get project archives sometime very soon, if I can.
<bigjools> yes
<_Groo_> hi/2 all
<jml> and that will help
<_Groo_> could anyone take a look at the kubuntu-ninjas ppa? we have a publish upload stuck since yesterday
<abentley> jml: I want PPAs listed right under the download tarball.  No, dammit, *above* the download tarball.
<bigjools> _Groo_: I can help, what's the build URL?
<bigjools> PM me if you want, that's a private archive
<jml> abentley: yeah. something like that would be good.
<abentley> jml: In the meantime, a link to the PPA in the project description would be helpful.
<jml> abentley: yeah. we probably want that even if we have project archives
<jml> especially highlighting ppas that we know contain daily builds of trunk or other series branches
<abentley> bigjools: I clicked the "all packages" link on the project page, and I didn't find any of the testing-cabal packages.  Which made me assume there was none.
<fta> dpm, do you know if it's possible to link to a particular string in lp (for my converter logs html page)
<askhl> fta: what do you mean by particular string?  It's possible to link to a "particular string" until the string numbering in the template changes
<fta> askhl, in http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/translations/trunk/converter-output.html  i want to link the errors to lp
<fta> askhl, as i have 3k strings, a direct link to the faulty translations would be nice to have
<fta> 3k x 50 langs
<dpm> fta, you can have a direct link, but only if you know the string number within the template, e.g. https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+pots/webkit-strings/ca/2/+translate
<askhl> fta: to me it looks like a job for direct po-file processing, something that wouldn't be possible in LP until there's a full interface in launchpadlib
<fta> hm, i don't
<askhl> Although one can of course construct an URL which results in a string search.  But that sort of thing is probably not so great for the servers in the long run
<askhl> i.e. the URL https://translations.launchpad.net/jmol/trunk/+pots/jmol/da/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=hydrogen
<askhl> But it wouldn't work because the search doesn't support regexes, so you can't make sure to only get the exact string :)
<fta> ok, too bad
<askhl> fta: which programme are you using to generate those error messages?
<askhl> is it the translate toolkit?
<fta> askhl, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/chromium-translations-tools.head
<fta> askhl, something like that: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/chromium-translations.png
<askhl> Ah, interesting
<fta> askhl, and i use that to improve the upstream translations of 4 channels: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/chromium/translations/
<bdmurray> @pilot in
<mounir> Is there a way to subscribe to all blueprints under a project, without subscribing to each blueprint?
<shadeslayer> hi, i wish to rename this branch https://launchpad.net/kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts
<shadeslayer> the new name is supposed to be kubuntu-web-shortcuts
<shadeslayer> how do i proceed?
<micahg> shadeslayer: that's a project, not a branch
<shadeslayer> micahg: right the project also has a branch, so is it possible to rename the whole thing?
<shadeslayer> ( the whole project )
<maxb> IIUC, only launchpad administrators can rename project ids
<maxb> It's a measure to prevent that being gratuitously done, since it will cause major upset for people used to the old name
<shadeslayer> hmm.. so do i have to post it on launchpad answers etc?
<cjohnston> jamesh: ping
<zanoi> i'm trying to import a SVN branch into launchpad but it fails with: bzrlib.errors.NotBranchError: Not a branch: "/trunk/playground/network/videocatcher".
<zanoi> any ideas why?
<maxb> zanoi: What is the full source URL?
<maxb> shadeslayer: Yes, post a question
<zanoi> maxb: svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/network/videocatcher
<maxb> zanoi: bzr-svn has "special" handling embedded in it for the KDE repository. This handling is quite often wrong.
<zanoi> maxb: so how can i get it to work?
<maxb> You would have to import it locally, or work to get the issue fixed in bzr-svn and launchpad
<jelmer> maxb: Unfortunately it's /always/ wrong without the special handling..
<zanoi> maxb: ok, thx :/
<yshavit> Hi all, I'm trying to reach staging.launchpad.net and it's been down for a while. Any idea when it'll be back up?
<yshavit> And in general, is it the appropriate place to create a test sandbox? My company is considering moving to launchpad, and we want to first make sure we like the VCS
<thumper> yshavit: yes staging is the correct place
<thumper> yshavit: I believe it is in the middle of a db restore
<thumper> yshavit: the staging database gets reset periodically
<yshavit> thumper: alright, thanks. So I'll just try again later.
<jasonlife> I'm trying to upload a custom kernel to my ppa.. After I ran "debuild -S -sa", I noticed that .dsc and .diff.gz doesn't have the suffix I added in the changelog file.. Is this normal?
<maxb> jasonlife: Show us the line with the suffix from your changelog file
<joey> leonardr: around?
<joey> leonardr: do you know of any way to speed this loop up? http://paste.ubuntu.com/538414/
<joey> cody-somerville: ^^ that's the big time killer in lp-scanner
<cody-somerville> joey, assign bug_task.bug to a local variable
<komsas> hello, I'm searching how to export launchpad translations with suggessions, till now I could'nt find any solution, someone know how to do this? Thanks.
<jasonlife> maxb: linux (2.6.32-26.48ppa1) lucid; urgency=low
<joey> cody-somerville: I think it's the .searchTasks in the for loop which is the slow down but am not sure
<maxb> jasonlife: So, I'd expect a linux_2.6.32-26.48ppa1.dsc from that, what did you actually get?
<jasonlife> I got "linux_2.6.32-26.48.dsc"
<jasonlife> and after I ran debuild -S -sa, the changes I made in changelog has also gone..
<jasonlife> :(
<maxb> erm. wtf
<jasonlife> actually I did the same thing for normal package, and everything worked as expected..
<cody-somerville> joey, do a time before you make my change and then a time afterwards and see if it makes a difference
<jasonlife> but, kernel seems different..
<joey> cody-somerville: no appreciable change (I called the local variable "boog" :-)
<cody-somerville> joey, did you use boog instead of calling bug_task.bug.blah a bunch of times?
<joey> cody-somerville: yeah I just made the assignment at the top and used boog everywhere else
<jasonlife> I'm wondering there is a special way to upload custom kernel..  Since kernel modules depend on kernel version, I assumed uploading kernel to ppa is different than normal package..
<cody-somerville> joey, odd. that trick usually speeds things up for me. maybe launchpadlib is better at caching things now.
<yofel> jasonlife: kernel is a bit more complicated, there is a second changelog file you need to update
<jasonlife> oh..
<jasonlife> yofel: where is the second changelog?
<yofel> jasonlife: just looked at it, debian/changelog and debian.master/changelog need to be the same
<joey> cody-somerville: I just did this and it helped a little. Let me add your caching trick too:  for bug_task in [m for m in project.searchTasks(order_by='id')]:
<yofel> the *right* procedure is probably different, but I only bothered with custom kernel packages once a while ago
<yofel> that's how I did it
<yofel> and there was something else...
<jasonlife> oh.. I see..
<jasonlife> yofel: thanks.. I will try again..
<yofel> you also need to update the contents debian.master/abi/
<yofel> there was a script for that in the package, let me look
<jasonlife> yofel: once I change the version, then how can I handle the kernel module like nvidia kernel module?  Do I have to build that too?
<yofel> if you use the package it should trigger a dkms build
<jasonlife> good.. than I don't need to worry about some special kernel modules then..
<yofel> jasonlife: for the abis you need to run debian/scripts/misc/getabis, but I forgot how to actually use that :/
<yofel> jasonlife: you can ask in #ubuntu-kernel for the proper procedure too, if they're in the mood to help
<jasonlife> :)
<jasonlife> ok.. thank you very much..
<yofel> ah, remembered it, for natty it would be './debian/scripts/misc/getabis 2.6.37 7.18' and move the abi files to debian.master/abi you'll probably need to use '2.6.32 26.48 ' as arguments
<jasonlife> oh.. thanks..
<yofel> needs quite a bit of bandwidth :/
<jasonlife> Is it?
<jasonlife> I've setup a free ppa.. Is it enough?
<yofel> for uploading and building the package? yes, I used one of my ppas back then too
<maxb> Disabling the abi checking entirely is often more what you want to do for PPA builds
<maxb> Depends on the target audience of the PPA
<yofel> maxb: how to do that?
<maxb> And the magnitude of the changes you are making
<maxb> yofel: not sure off hand, but there's definitely a toggle in there somewhere
<joey> cody-somerville: well it looks like after doing more timings it's the IF that's slow
<joey> cody-somerville: I can change up the for loop in many ways but it really doesn't make much difference
<joey> cody-somerville: I've stripped out the if and that loop just cranks
<joey> cody-somerville: so that's what I need to optimize
<wgrant> joey: It's somewhere between very difficult and impossible to optimise that sort of thing right now.
<wgrant> joey: But there's a new API design in progress which will make it possible and simple.
 * joey nods.
<joey> wgrant: I've made a little progress but it's not great
<joey> wgrant: it checks about 2 bugs a second instead of like 200 :-)
<wgrant> joey: Right, at the moment you'll be making at least one request for each bug.
<joey> wgrant: ah exactly.
<joey> wgrant: I split the IF so it's only 1 request at a time
<joey> wgrant: 99.9% don't pass the first condition in the IF so I split it out into a nested if
<wgrant> joey: Ah.
<wgrant> joey: So, in the new API design you'll be able to tell it to retrieve a collection of bugs and some of their attributes, all in one request.
<wgrant> Which should make this sort of thing far less slow.
<joey> wgrant: oh absolutely!
<MTecknology> I forgot... how to you mark that a bug has been filed upstream?
<MTecknology> ah.. there we are
#launchpad 2010-12-01
<bdrung> the bzr builder fails again, but with different error: bzr: ERROR: no such option: --append-version
<bdrung> https://code.launchpad.net/~audacity-team/+recipe/daily/+build/9719
<bdrung> wallyworld_: ^
<wallyworld_> bdrung: that error seems familiar. i'll check
<wallyworld_> bdrung: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/682941
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 682941 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "no such option --append-version in recipe build (affected: 1, heat: 8)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<wallyworld_> bdrung: it's a known issue. try starting the build again in the hope of it running on a different server
<bdrung> wallyworld_: thx. btw, is format 0.3 supported?
<wallyworld_> that i don't know. my first guess is no but it's just a guess
<wallyworld_> i should say "not yet"
<bdrung> k
<maxb> Has someone made lamont aware of that --append-version thing?
<yofel> did launchpad just go down? "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. " trying to open any launchpad page
<mwhudson> yofel: data centre issues it seems
<yofel> k
<tr3nton> is launchpad having issues?
<_diablo> tr3nton: I can't connect.
<yofel> you're not alone
<_diablo> nothing on identi.ca yet
<tr3nton> :(
<_diablo> http://identi.ca/launchpad
<mwhudson> http://identi.ca/notice/59542565
* mwhudson changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad down due to data centre issues, more soon | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<Riddell> who killed the PPAs?
<_diablo>  Riddell look at the topic
<mwhudson> Riddell: if that's what they were after, they overdid it
<mwhudson> Riddell: the data centre is unreachable
<Riddell> goodness
<Riddell> guess that means it's time for bed
<erichammond> This kills our company's ability to start new EC2 servers as we depend on installing software from PPAs.
<mwhudson> erichammond: believe me, people are out of bed and in taxis in london as we type
<pecos> cannot connect to https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
<lifeless> mwhudson: would be nice to not be down
<spiv> pecos: see /topic
<Riddell> good luck with it
<erichammond> Sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh.  Just pointing out that we had a dependency we didn't realize was there.
<mwhudson> lifeless: multi data centre redundancy?
<pecos> thank
<lifeless> mwhudson: yes, but need to fix our silly resource usage first
<lifeless> mwhudson: then we can examine how much headroom we get as a result
<lifeless> and if we have the resources
<erichammond> offtopic: We had an hour outage at noon because a simple "apt-get upgrade" took down a server and made it unbootable.
<lifeless> ouch
<tr3nton> doing a server upgrade at noon?
<rivaldoleon> server down??
<wgrant> One of the datacentres is unreachable.
<wgrant> People are on it.
<rivaldoleon> ok ..
<achiang> maybe the bot needs to be programmed to /msg everyone who /joins the channel.... "see /topic. see /topic."
<erichammond> tr3nton: I've been doing upgrades for so many years on Ubuntu without problems that I lost all fear.
<tr3nton> lol :D
<tr3nton> erichammond: even so, doesn't seem like a good time to do the upgrade
<_diablo> achiang: or people need to learn etiquette
<erichammond> tr3nton: Now you tell me.
<tr3nton> lol
<rivaldoleon> lol
<erichammond> (I'm talking about minor security upgrades within a release, not upgrading to a new release version).
<erichammond> but yes, lesson relearned.
<scarper> hey, the link on launchpad's error page doesn't work well with x-chat
<scarper> I'm not sure where to report that...
<colkito> hi!
<scarper> (it could be x-chat's fault, thou)
<d_ed> hey, hope I'm not flooding the channel with info you knew but, launchpad.net seems to be down.
<bdrung> wow, even ubuntu.com is not reachable
<mwhudson> look at the /topic people :)
<d_ed> good spot.
<d_ed> good luck with it all.
<bdrung> best time to go to bed. :)
<stgraber> bdrung: ubuntu.com works fine here, canonical.com doesn't though.
<wgrant> Hm, is it back?
<mwhudson> doesn't seem like it to me
 * d_ed wouldn't be surpsied if ubuntu.com isn't load balanced across many servers throughout the world.
<tr3nton> no ubuntu.com working here.... nor canonical.com
<stgraber> wgrant: nah, apparently a few machines are in a different DC. For example I can still access ubuntu.com and edubuntu.org from here. And can ssh to a few box like the one running edubuntu.org and the one that used to run qa.ubuntu.com
<wgrant> Oh, hah. ubuntu.com is in the good DC, but it redirects to www.ubuntu.com which is in the bad DC.
<bdrung> stgraber: ubuntu.com and canonical.com time out
<slobo> is there a mirror of launchpad ppas somewhere?
<ScottK> Nope
<ScottK> packages.ubuntu.com still works.
<bdrung> slobo: i have a local mirror of the PPAs used by me
<slobo> bdrung: do you happen to  use brianmercer's  php packages?
<bdrung> slobo: nope
<slobo> was worth a try :)
<aendruk> looks like launchpad's "Please try again" page links to #%23launchpad instead of #launchpad
<dylannator> How longs the site gonna be down ?
<scarper> aendruk, yep
<navdeepsidhu> @scraper > seems fine here .....
<dopey> maybe somebody could put the launchpadstatus twitter feed in the topic
<Linuxsapien> oh dear
<ochosi> i might be the one-thousandst person to ask, but what's up with launchpad right now? :)
<scarper> hmm... I  wonder if the problem is with chromium
<scarper> navdeepsidhu,
<yofel> ochosi: /topic
<User1> yes, chromium broked launchpad.net and ubuntu.com
<ochosi> yofel: thanks. and sorry.
<yofel> np
<aendruk> scarper: could be. i'm using chrome.
<Linuxsapien> lawl
 * Linuxsapien builds a snowman
<head_victim> I think it's just a test to make sure we all answer the survey posted to the list recently.
<achiang> maybe someone who can should actually modify the launchpad error page to say we're having data center issues, rather than saying, 'go on irc and ask'
<kpkarl> is thats whats up? datacenter problems?
<scarper> aendruk, so that may be it... (i'm too lazy to check with FF ;-) )
* User1 changed the topic of #launchpad to: "
<Linuxsapien> it says "let us know" so im here to say, the servers have went kaput :P
<User1> exit
* kpkarl changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad down due to data centre issues, more soon | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<Linuxsapien> user1 is good eh ã
<aendruk> scarper: are you able to change the title in #%23launchpad to something informative?
<Linuxsapien> hahaah
<navdeepsidhu> Source of the error page says : Please see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/475371, especially comment #2, for details on this file
<scarper> aendruk, let me see
<ubot5> 'Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable\nResponse headers:\n---\nconnection: close\ncontent-type: text/html\ndate: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 02:15:43 GMT\nstatus: 503\ntransfer-encoding: chunked\nvary: Accept-Encoding\nvia: 1.1 wildcard.edge.launchpad.net\n---\nResponse body:\n---\n<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">\r\n<html xmlns=
<Linuxsapien> downtime always brings in more users to irc ;)
<tr3nton> Linuxsapien: cunning plan to get more users in here?
<Linuxsapien> more than likely tr3nton
<tr3nton> ;-)
<Linuxsapien> cue
<Linuxsapien> cute
 * Linuxsapien throws a snowball at scarper 
<mofu> ppa.launchpad.net down tonight??
<mnuhn> ok, i guess lots of ppl already asked this, but anyways: do you guys know what's going on with the servers?
<Linuxsapien> ã
<scarper> aendruk, but I don't know if topics are persistent
<thumper> the topic says datacentre issues
<chris_535> mnuhn, I understand that ICE has something to do with it
<thumper> heh
<Linuxsapien> it IS cold
<thumper> snow maybe?
<scarper> aendruk, it may disappear as soon as we exit
<mnuhn> chris_535 what's ICE?
<Linuxsapien> -7celcius here in Glasgow
<mofu> sorry, looked at the ChanServ message, missed the note in the subject
<TheMuso> Ah, /topic reliable as always, thanks folks.
<poolie> mnuhn: you can track http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus (also on twitter)
<dw_asd> hello, what's wrong with https://launchpad.net ?
<tester323> hey, its down for me too, any eta ?
<dopey> 'ICE' is the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement - they recently cancelled a bunch of DNS domaines relating to piracy
<tester323> cant even do a apt-get update, fails
<kpkarl> tester323: please see http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus
<dopey> please check the topic, or watch http://twitter.com/#!/launchpadstatus
<Linuxsapien> ã the US have no clue
<tester323> ty
<tr3nton> who is US? 8-)
<rryan> any ETA on when launchpad will be back up ?
<Linuxsapien> the thirdworld country over to your left
<dopey> I believe the 'ICE' reference was a joke, relax folks
<chris_535> dopey, Sorry guys I though it was funny :)
<Linuxsapien> i got it too hense the ã
<dw_asd> good timing, needed to use it for the first time
<dw_asd> :)
<hblaw> Lauchpad down? Ubuntuone down?
<canthiswait_> yup
<dopey> hblaw: http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus
 * rryan wishes distributed-bug-trackers existed
<kpkarl> http://ppa.launchpad.net/ now gives a very large directory listing
<hblaw> thanks.
<katrina> I just went to a PPA and was able to get the page working
<dopey> rryan: there are some, i've seen one that was built on top of git. they just arent very good yet
<mnuhn> rryan, distributed bug trackers ... that's really a point!
<hblaw> seems backed online now...
<rryan> yea :) I've seen them before too I guess.. i meant 'I wish they existed and were used'
<katrina> least that was quick, was ubuntu.com having the same issue?
<katrina> I'm guessing they were all in the same data centre :)
<spm> yeah, it looks like we've lost a DC. person is enroute.
<mnuhn> stupid question: what's a "DC"?
<hblaw> "data center"?
<celsius1414> Working now. Thanks for the info guys.
<spm> yup
<mnuhn> you guys lost a whole datacenter? WTF?
<navdeepsidhu> its back up
<spm> apparently this particular DC and a bunch of others got a tad bored with being in the one building all the time. so they went "clubbing" together. had a few drinks. met some new racks. that sort of thing. unfortunately, ours got into the halon more than was wise, and managed to fall into the river on the way back. quickly recovered but still.
<ajmitch_> spm: so it's not floating down the thames?
<spm> not anymore. fished out by a friendly passing police boat/river patrol. given some nice 3 phase to clear the vapours.
<celsius1414> heh heh
<jhl> I'm getting an error (Error ID: OOPS-1796C612) when I try to upload a code tarball and signature to my LP project. Anyone else having a similar problem?
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1796C612
<jhl> I'll try logging out and back in again.
<jhl> No dice. Is an authentication server down?
* kpkarl changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<kpkarl> http://identi.ca/notice/59544907 indicates the issue is resolved
<jhl> Just tried again, but got a different error. ubot5, tell me about OOPS-1796D344
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1796D344
<spm> jhl: "UploadFailed: Server said: 500 Internal server error" still chasing...
<jhl> spm: Thanks for the update. I'll be around a bit longer if you want me to do any testing from my end.
<spm> *** codebrowse is having issues post the earlier failure ***
<spm> *** codebrowse should be fine again ***
<spm> jhl: should be good again. we had a major DC fail earlier, and that's had a few followon's. So try at will.
<jhl> spm: Just retried - all is well! Thanks for keeping me posted.
<spm> excellent
<MTecknology> Time to see if a recipe is going to work or not work.....
<MTecknology> oh ya! Now I remember why I don't use recipe builds.....
<MTecknology> That bug hasn't been dealt with for quilt yet
<MTecknology> I guess I'll build it myself after I get home tomorrow
<lag> How do you take ownership of a Launchpad team?
<komsas>  hello, I'm searching how to export launchpad translations with suggessions, till now I could'nt find any solution, someone know how to do this?
<mpt> staging.launchpad.net seems to have been down for about a day now. Does anyone know when it will be back?
<maxb> mpt: no, but having it down for days is not unusual
* matsubara changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: matsubara | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<dcordes> Hello I have a general question regarding launchpad. I am working to improve the overall ubuntu experience on a small screen device with touchscreen input only. I filed some bugs with problems related to that device's nature. Now I am wondering if it would be good to create a 'meta' bug for the device and make it depend on all those bugs affecting.
<soren> dcordes: Bugs don't have dependencies.
<dcordes> soren: do you see any way to connect the bugs ? I am trying to produce some hiercarchy
<soren> dcordes: Nope.
<dcordes> in bugzilla you create a meta bug and make all bugs block that bug
<soren> dcordes: I think there are plans to add something like that, but I don't know what the status is.
<dcordes> so you click the meta bug and know task a b c d have to be done in order to close it
<exarkun> Why don't I have permission to access <https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/645883>?
<ubot5> 'Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized\nResponse headers:\n---\ncontent-length: 21\ncontent-type: text/plain\ndate: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:35:14 GMT\nserver: zope.server.http (HTTP)\nstatus: 401\nvary: Accept-Encoding\nvia: 1.1 wildcard.edge.launchpad.net\nx-powered-by: Zope (www.zope.org), Python (www.python.org)\n---\nResponse body:\n---\nBug 645883 is private\n---\n (https://launchpad.net/bugs/645883)'
<exarkun> ubot5: Thanks for spilling those secret details.
<ubot5> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<exarkun> Now I can guess that it's a DoS/security issue that I wasn't supposed to be able to read.  Hooray for IRC.
<soren> Any idea why https://code.launchpad.net/~openstack-ubuntu-packagers/ubuntu/natty/nova/ubuntu-apport-hook/+merge/42329 doesn't show a diff?
<matsubara> abentley, can you help soren ^?
<abentley> matsubara: okay.
<abentley> soren: It's because the job oopsed.  The creator, chuck short, should have gotten an email about the diff creation failure.
<abentley> soren: I believe stuff oopsed due to the datacentre problems last night.
<soren> abentley: Ah, so resubmitting it should fix it?
<abentley> losa: The oops reports from last night don't seem to have been synced.  For example, OOPS-1796MPJ25 was created at 03:00:39 but is missing.
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1796MPJ25
<abentley> soren: Yes, resubmitting would fix it.
<mthaddon> abentley: which server is that on?
<abentley> mthaddon: loganberry-bzrsyncd.
<abentley> mthaddon: merge-proposal-jobs.
<soren> abentley: Will I thwart any debugging efforts by resubmitting or can I just go ahead and do it?
<abentley> soren: I think it's okay to resubmit.
<soren> abentley: Cool, thanks.
<smoser> this used to work:  bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/automated-ec2-builds
<smoser> but now gives bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/vmbuilder/0.12/".
<smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt shows no 0.12 branch there anymore.  I'm guessing someone deleted that, and my branch stacked data
<maxb> smoser: Yes. the branch is now owned by ~vmbuilder-dev
<smoser> maxb, so, any ideas on how i restore mine ? should i just push the copy i have to that location?
<smoser> that seems like it would "work for now", but seems like a bug in general, one possibly resulting in lost data.
<maxb> You could download http://j.maxb.eu/~maxb/bzr-set-stacked-url and run "bzr-set-stacked-url lp:~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/automated-ec2-builds lp:~vmbuilder-dev/vmbuilder/0.12"
<smoser> would pushing --overwrite work
<smoser> ?
<smoser> its really not at all stacked on vmbuilder 0.12. completely different branches, probably incorrectly in the same place.
<smoser> s/branches/projects/
<maxb> smoser: In that case, first fix the stacking location with my script, then 'bzr reconfigure --unstacked lp:~ubuntu-on-ec2/vmbuilder/automated-ec2-builds'
<maxb> No, --overwrite is not useful here
<smoser> ok. i'll try as you suggest.
<smoser> maxb, you rock. thanks.
<renatosilva> adding your email in source code of projects hosted in launchpad or when this source code will be available in the web, does it really cause spam?
<matsubara> renatosilva, it'll be available to logged in users. it's obfuscated for anonymous users
<renatosilva> matsubara: can you show me an example? Afaik loggerhead won't do that
<renatosilva> matsubara: loggerhead won't do that http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/purple-plugin-pack/irchelper-password-dialog/annotate/head%3A/irchelper.c
<matsubara> renatosilva, sorry. i just assumed loggerhead would do the same as LP.
<matsubara> renatosilva, https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/631085
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 631085 in Bazaar "revid contains email address and is displayed publicly" [Medium,Confirmed]
<renatosilva> matsubara: does it address emails in source code? I don't think so...
<matsubara> renatosilva, I don't think it'll ever obfuscate email in source code
<matsubara> I think that bug is about making loggerhead obfuscate emails displayed on loggerhead
<renatosilva> matsubara: me neither
<renatosilva> matsubara: it seems source code is not indexed in google
<shadeslayer> could somone look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+question/136250
<shadeslayer> and add canonical LOSA's as the assignee
<matsubara> shadeslayer, done
<soren> Is it intentional that e-mail about merge proposals get sent to individual team members rather than to the contact address set for the team?
<soren> I strikes me as odd since it doesn't follow the same pattern as bug mail.
<Tiibiidii> hi
<Tiibiidii> i'm writing some code using the python launchpadlib
<Tiibiidii> it's really neat
<Tiibiidii> but what i'm writing is just an addition... i mean: i'm fetching some data to give the user a little bit more context
<Tiibiidii> and i don't want this to disrupt the already existing code
<Tiibiidii> that is... if "import launchpadlib.launchpad" raises an ImportError, i'm going to default to some other value
<Tiibiidii> and i would also like to avoid problems when waiting for a reply
<Tiibiidii> for example
<Tiibiidii> just a little while ago
<Tiibiidii> it seems that the staging server was being updated
<Tiibiidii> the launchpad web interface (with all the data i needed) was working fine
<Tiibiidii> but the api was unusable
<Tiibiidii> (i would like that, at least for anonymous logins and read only data, we could always get access to this data even in these cases)
<Tiibiidii> (one could resort to scraping the web page... but that's suboptimal)
<Tiibiidii> in the meanwhile
<Tiibiidii> i was wondering... how do you suggest to handle this?
<Tiibiidii> possibly without spawning a thread
<Tiibiidii> (i don't want to complicate much more the things)
<Tiibiidii> (and the current API doesn't have a class for this operation... so adding one would disrupt some software)
<leonardr> Tiibiidii: what happened to your code when the web service was unusable?
<Tiibiidii> i'm just testing in the REPL
<Tiibiidii> but i got an HTTPError
<Tiibiidii> and a wait of 40/50 seconds
<Tiibiidii> by googling i found this, for avoiding the long wait:
<Tiibiidii> http://programming-guides.com/python/timeout-a-function
<Tiibiidii> but i was wondering if there was a better approach
<Tiibiidii>  but i got an HTTPError <-- actually a lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError so i guess that for catching that, i would need to import also this
<leonardr> Tiibiidii: our code is written on the assumption that when the server is down, it's better to wait a while and try again, in case the error is transient (Which it usually is)
<Tiibiidii> ok, so...
<Tiibiidii> that timeout is the best approach?
<Tiibiidii> or i should resort to scraping?
<leonardr> if you want to fail immediately, it would probably help to set ._browser.max_retries=1 on your Launchpad object. unfortunately, just creating a launchpad object spawns some http requests
<Tiibiidii> or reading data from launchpad is not such a good idea in the first place? (keeping in mind that's completely optional for what i'm doing)
<leonardr> i don't think timeout will help. the problem is not that the requests were taking too long; the problem is that the requests were failing immediately, and launchpadlib was waiting a while and trying again
<Tiibiidii> <leonardr> if you want to fail immediately, it would probably help to set ._browser.max_retries=1 on your Launchpad object. unfortunately, just creating a launchpad object spawns some http requests <-- thank you very much... i'll try right away
<Tiibiidii> uh... do you know of a way to test it?
<leonardr> so, maybe reading data from launchpad is not a good idea for you, because launchpadlib assumes it's very important that you get the data from launchpad
<leonardr> you could set it up to run against some other server you control. we don't have a fake server that pretends to be down all the time
<Tiibiidii> <leonardr> if you want to fail immediately, it would probably help to set ._browser.max_retries=1 on your Launchpad object. unfortunately, just creating a launchpad object spawns some http requests <-- thank you, however since i got almost all of this working, i think i'll try to solve this problem (after all is only 15 lines of python)
<Tiibiidii> to test with another server...
<leonardr> ok
<Tiibiidii> i should look inside _browser._connection ?
<Tiibiidii> sorry for the trivial question, but i started looking into the launchpad API just now
<leonardr> probably not. what are you trying to do?
<Tiibiidii> duh, sorry
<Tiibiidii> really dumb question i guess
<Tiibiidii> i was trying to connect to another server, as you suggested
<Tiibiidii> i think i just need to create another Launchpad object
<Tiibiidii> (i was trying to modify the instance i already got)
<leonardr> Tiibiidii: yes, you can specify the url to the other server as service_root to the constructor, or login_with, or etc.
<Tiibiidii> yeah, sorry about that... it's the first thing i read about the api, and it's the first thing i forgot :)
<stilia-johny> hi any alive?
<micahg> !ask | stilia-johny
<ubot5> stilia-johny: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<stilia-johny> does any know a good guide for packaging, makefile, and everything about packaging!
<micahg> !packaging > stilia-johny
<ubot5> stilia-johny, please see my private message
<micahg> stilia-johny: #ubuntu-packaging is available for packaging help as well
<stilia-johny> thanks
<Patrickdk> how do I go about publishing a package to a ppa for both lucid and hardy?
<Patrickdk>  I can get it to work for one or the other, but not both
<flacoste> Patrickdk: if the package needs recompiling (it's a binary and deps have changed between) you need two uploads
<flacoste> Patrickdk: otherwise you can use the copy packages page to copy the binaries across
<flacoste> but that only works if the deps can still be satisfied
<flacoste> Patrickdk: if you the code you are using is in source control, you want want to have a look at the recipe feature
<flacoste> which allows you to package a branch and have built for different series automatically
<Patrickdk> tried to copy packages
<Patrickdk> says it cannot be copied, same version already has published binaries
<Patrickdk> the lucid binaries
<Patrickdk> hmm, I need two different ppa's for this don't I
<Patrickdk> one for lucid and one for hardy
<joey> anyone know if there is a team.mailinglist element?  I don't see it on the apidocs
<wgrant> joey: Mailing lists aren't exported on the API at the moment.
<joey> wgrant: ok, thanks. That narrows down my choice
<wgrant> joey: What do you need it for?
<joey> wgrant: I need to ascertain if a team has a ML or not
<wgrant> Ah.
<xnox> Dear launchpad overloads =) please review / accept code import https://code.launchpad.net/~pkgcrosswire/bpbible/trunk
<fta> OOPS-1796N2961
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1796N2961
<fta> (that was while copying packages from a ppa to another, splitting the task helped)
<micahg> fta: bug 575450
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 575450 in Soyuz "Archive:+copy-packages nearly unusable due to timeouts" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575450
<fta> micahg, thanks. i knew it was not new, but some devs seemed interested by perf issues
<micahg> fta: indeed they are :)
<fta> maybe not anymore :P
<fta> happens to me each time i move chromium deps from a branch down to another
#launchpad 2010-12-02
<rye> hi, you may receive a bogus oops-tools summary sent from buffaloberry, please ignore that, I ran the wrong script :(
* matsubara changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: -- | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<allenap> I seem to be subscribed to several private PPAs that I have no recollection of. Is that normal? How can I unsubscribe?
<wgrant> allenap: You've probably inherited them through team memberships.
<wgrant> Subscriptions just grant you access -- they don't give you additional notifications.
<allenap> wgrant: Okay. I just ignore them then?
<wgrant> allenap: Indeed.
<allenap> wgrant: Cheers :)
<shadeslayer> can someone edit the VCS imports of https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ktorrent/trunk
<shadeslayer> the new git urls are : git://git.kde.org/libktorrent
<shadeslayer> and git://git.kde.org/ktorrent
<jelmer> shadeslayer: hi
<shadeslayer> jelmer: heya :D
<jelmer> shadeslayer: you need to add a new import, we can change lp:ktorrent to point at that new branch.
<shadeslayer> ah ok
<shadeslayer> hold on then :)
<shadeslayer> jelmer: https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/ktorrent/trunk
<shadeslayer> seems i need a new project for libktorrent
<jelmer> there's a difference between ktorrent and libktorrent?
<jelmer> shadeslayer: I've fixed lp:ktorrent
<shadeslayer> ah thanks
<shadeslayer> and yeah
<shadeslayer> they split out the ktorrent shared libraries
<shadeslayer> should i just register libktorrent under the same project or just give it a different branch name?
<shadeslayer> s/same/different
<shadeslayer> jelmer: ^^
<jelmer> shadeslayer: That's a good question, I guess a different project is appropriate.
<shadeslayer> okay
<shadeslayer> jelmer: can you move https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/libktorrent/trunk to launchpad.net/libktorrent
<jelmer> shadeslayer: done
 * jelmer wonders who is CHR today
<shadeslayer> thanks! :)
<patdk-wk> how often does the repository for a ppa add new packages?
<patdk-wk> wondering if it's dynamic or like a 30min fixed loop or something, so I have an idea how often not to check it :)
<bigjools> patdk-wk: it depends mostly on the load of the system, it can vary between 5 minutes and 40 minutes
<patdk-wk> heh, mine seem to always be up near 40min, so I thought it might be a timed thing, instead of load based
<bigjools> there's a lot of load lately, I'm working on a fix to speed it up as well
<patdk-wk> nice
<patdk-wk> strange, it was working last night, but no longer :(
<patdk-wk> W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/patricidk/general-lucid/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404  Not Found
<patdk-wk> oh, seems add-apt doesn't do any good checking
<patdk-wk> even though it told me it failed, it added the broken ppa anyways
<bigjools> patdk-wk: you've spelled "patrickdk" wrong ...
<patdk-wk> I noticed
<patdk-wk> but add-apt added it anyways :( even though it didn't exist
<patdk-wk> it yelled at me, so I didn't think it would have added it
* jcsackett changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: jcsackett | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<leonardr> sinzui, i'm trying to understand something jml said and gary says you'll be able to explain it
<jml> hah
<leonardr> or, if jml is still around, he can do it (sorry, jml, i keep forgetting you're in england)
<sinzui> Wow. that was hard to understand. I hope the question is easier
<leonardr> jml, what do you mean by "project Foo and all of its downstreams"? what are the downstreams and how is that relationship represented in launchpad?
<jml> leonardr: oh right. a Product and its linked source packages in various distros.
<jml> leonardr: with our current data set, I believe that would be Ubuntu, but as the derived archive work progresses it could involve other distros as well
<leonardr> ok, processing...
<jml> to pick a bad example, Banshee is an upstream Product, people file bugs there and on the ubuntu/+source/banshee source package
<jml> but then for reasons unknown to mankind, Banshee becomes an integral part of Linaro, which is (will be) modelled as a derivative of Ubuntu
<leonardr> jml: would it make conceptual sense to navigate from a project to a collection of its distro_source_packages?
<leonardr> (finish your parable first)
<jml> oh, and we're also in this future maintaining a full mirror of Debian's bugs
<jml> it's highly likely that someone would want to search through the banshee bugs in all of those areas: upstream, ubuntu, linaro, debian
<jml> maybe when this becomes more likely we could introduce different data models, but the use case remains... it's exactly the sort of thing Launchpad should do.
<jml> leonardr: thinking...
<leonardr> actually, scratch that question for the moment
<leonardr> here's a better question
<leonardr> there's a bug in banshee-in-linaro
<leonardr> how would you navigate from the bug to the banshee product?
<jml> leonardr: probably with a more expanded version of the Ubuntu-specific things we have already: https://bugs.launchpad.net/banshee
<jml> (or see https://bugs.launchpad.net/do for a project that has bugs in both the upstream & Ubuntu)
<leonardr> jml: i'm talking about one specific bug. it would have a bug_target, right?
<leonardr> and the bug_target would either be banshee, or it would be banshee-in-linaro
<jml> leonardr: oh right, sorry, I had it around the wrong way...
<leonardr> and if it was banshee-in-linaro, then banshee-in-linaro would have some kind of link to banshee
<jml> yes
<leonardr> ok, i can work with that, thanks
<jml> although I imagine a more common use would be simply clicking some kind of link saying "this also affects upstream", but what you describe would probably be there
 * leonardr thinking in terms of the data structures
<jml> leonardr: fwiw, banshee and banshee-in-linaro (linaro/+source/banshee) would be of two different types
<jml> Product and DistributionSourcePackage
<leonardr> good to know
<jml> they probably both implement some of the same interfaces though
<leonardr> yeah, like IBugTarget
<jml> indeed
 * jml retreats back to his cave
<leonardr> jml: i'm back
<leonardr> let's talk about "Ubuntu and its derivatives"
<nigelb> I think he went back to his cave
 * leonardr lives in hope that jml has irc in his cave
<nigelb> :p
<leonardr> in your second example you mention bugs "in Ubuntu and its derivatives"
<jml> leonardr: yes.
<leonardr> a bug would be associated with Ubuntu through bug/bug_target/distribution, and only if the bug_target was a distribution source package
<leonardr> is that right?
<jml> leonardr: yes, that's right.
<leonardr> suppose instead a bug is associated with a derivative of ubuntu
<jml> leonardr: and, conceptually, a distribution would have a derivative_distributions collection associated with it. (I don't know how that is actually implemented in the data model)
<jml> ok.
<leonardr> how is that derivative related to ubuntu?
<leonardr> ok
<leonardr> so there'd be some kind of 'parent_distribution' on kubuntu
<jml> leonardr: probably there's a distribution.derived_from property
<jml> yeah
<leonardr> and i imagine that can be recursive
<jml> and probably, Linaro rather than kubuntu for an actual real-world example
<jml> leonardr: as in more than one layer of derivation? yes.
<leonardr> all right
<jml> leonardr: anything else?
<leonardr> jml: that should be it
<jml> leonardr: cool. thanks.
<Pegasus_RPG_> hello. When we make release branches off of trunk, should we not stack them?
<Pegasus_RPG_> Or does it matteR?
<yofel> could someone help me retry https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/staging/+build/2073902/+retry - it times out (Error ID: OOPS-1797K1474)
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1797K1474
<AJenbo> Hi i'm not reciving any confirmation after uploading packages to my ppa
<AJenbo> It has been over a week
<AJenbo> https://launchpad.net/~ajenbo/+archive/id-game-ports
<jelmer> AJenbo: did you receive any email confirming that your packages were accepted or rejected?
<jelmer> before they were even built, I mean
<jelmer> were the packages signed with your GPG key as registered on Launchpad, and did they list a correct email address ?
<AJenbo> yes
<AJenbo> no i did build the packages
<AJenbo> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/exYnbyWK
<AJenbo> jelmer, I'm actually beginning to doubth that it was the same pgp key, as i can't seam to match the 2048R/9647A895 in LP with the keys on my machine
<AJenbo> But when i try to insert the Fingerprint of the key LP just rejects it
<jelmer> AJenbo: You can't upload binary packages to PPA's, only source packages.
<bigjools> AJenbo, jelmer: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faq/227
<jelmer> bigjools: thanks
<AJenbo> jelmer, it has all the source, i don't want to upload the bin just the source, am i doing some thing wrong?*
<jcsackett> Pegasus_RPG_: generally it's okay to make stacked branches. http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-guide/stacked.html
<AJenbo> jelmer, do i need to clean out some thing after test building before i upload?
<patdk-wk> I just rebuild with -S
<jelmer> AJenbo: To build just the source you need an option to whatever you're using to build (e.g. debuild -S). #ubuntu-packaging is probably more appropriate for this sort of question.
<AJenbo> Hmm LP says Oops when i try to set up my PGP key
<AJenbo> Error ID: OOPS-1797O1497
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1797O1497
<jcsackett> abentley: can you help out yofel with what looks like a ppa build timeout issue, or should i ping someone else?
<yofel> jcsackett: it seems like it builds now after refreshing the page a few times, even with the timeout error
<bigjools> jcsackett: it;'s working for hgm now
<jcsackett> yofel, bigjools: cool, glad to hear it. :-)
<bigjools> yofel: there's an auto-retry for dependency-wait builds
<abentley> jcsackett: please see if someone from soyuz is available.  I've got a lot of Release Manager stuff to do at the moment.
<bigjools> you don't need to hit retry
<jcsackett> abentley: issue seems to be resolved. and i forgot you were in RM mode--that trumps. :-)
<yofel> ah, well, it builds so I'm happy
<AJenbo> Ok that seamed to help, now i got an email, but
<AJenbo> Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<AJenbo> I guess that i have to change it to maverick
<AJenbo> Accepted :)
<AJenbo> thanks or the help guys
<RichW> Why does my branch have a funny url (lp:hypernucleus-server)? https://code.launchpad.net/~richies/hypernucleus-server/PyramidPort
<RichW> Shouldn't it have pyramidport on the end of it?
<RichW> nvm i think i understand
<AJenbo> does some one know how to generate a finger print for the ppa?
<maxb> AJenbo: I'm not sure quite what you mean, can you explain a bit more?
<guilhembi> Hello, we MySQL have an issue, a LP branch which has stopped mirroring, is there any LP admin here who could help?
<cody-somerville> losas: ^^
<AJenbo> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:ajenbo/id-game-ports
<AJenbo> Error: can't find signing_key_fingerprint at https://launchpad.net/api/1.0/~ajenbo/+archive/id-game-ports
<AJenbo> maxb, ^
<maxb> AJenbo: A recently created PPA? The key is generated a short while after the first upload to the PPA
<AJenbo> ok, ill give it some time then :)
<maxb> It looks like it has happened now
<ahasenack> is there any way to speed up the publication of a package in a ppa? LP says "published 37 minutes ago", status published, but at the same time says "Note: Some binary packages for this source are not yet published in the repository."
<ahasenack> isn't that a lie when it says "published"?
<ahasenack>  i386 - Pending publication
<bigjools> ahasenack: source is published, binaries are not
<jcsackett> guilhembi: an admin should be responding shortly, per cody-sommerville's request.
<ahasenack> bigjools: saying "status: published" can be quite misleading then as a summary
<mbarnett> guilhembi: what branch are you having an issue with?
<ahasenack> bigjools: anyway, the binary is built, it's just another cron job that has to kick in to actually make it visible for apt-get?
<bigjools> ahasenack: see bug 657633
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 657633 in Soyuz "PPA page says my PPA is both published and not yet published" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657633
<guilhembi> mbarnett: this one:
<guilhembi> https://code.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-trunk
<guilhembi> mbarnett: and this one:
<bigjools> ahasenack: yes you need to wait, we've got a slow publisher at the moment because of a couple of bugs and larger load than usual
<guilhembi> https://code.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-trunk-bugfixing
<bigjools> 40mins tops
<guilhembi> they have "next mirror: disabled". I'd like them to be kicked off, so that they mirror again.
<ahasenack> bigjools: ok, thanks
<mbarnett> guilhembi: i see that mirroring is disabled.  let me see if i can figure out why.
<bigjools> ahasenack: it should speed up considerably next time we release, I just fixed a nice bug
<guilhembi> mbarnett: for mysql-trunk, I think it's because we renamed the branch on our side, but I updated that in  LP ~8 hours ago,
<guilhembi> and it hasn't woken up since then.
<AJenbo> maxb, the command is still complaning, guess it has a stupid cache some where
<guilhembi> mbarnett: for trunk-bugfixing, I don't know the reason.
<maxb> AJenbo: hmm, let me try it....
<ahasenack> bigjools: \o/
<maxb> AJenbo: fails here too. I am confused.
<AJenbo> maxb, removing it and then adding it solved it
<maxb> AJenbo: removing what?
<AJenbo> sudo apt-add-repository --remove ppa:ajenbo/id-game-ports
<AJenbo> maxb, but the ppa makes software center crash x(
<AJenbo> apt-add-repro added "src http://ppa....." instead of "deb http://ppa....." x(
<yofel> me again, this time I have a build that's stuck uploading.. https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/staging/+build/2073903
<jcsackett> StevenK: are you available to help out yofel with a build issue?
<jfi> Hello, is there a way to check a package before uploading it into ppa? to check that it will not be rejected for trivial reasons
<AJenbo> http://pastebin.com/fQ1zZa8G
<AJenbo> when i install packages from my PPA i get rejected with a message about them beeing a non trusted source
<maxb> AJenbo: An annoyance with the new PPA process is that the PPA key generation will only be initiated after the first publication of a package, and the PPA will only be signed by the key when some other event causes republication of the PPA
<maxb> If you upload another package, or a new version of an existing package, the problem should resolve itself
<AJenbo> maxb, ok stupid, but ill give it a go :)
<maxb> AJenbo: Yes, it is stupid. It's bug 374395. One day.... :-)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 374395 in Soyuz "New PPAs can be published unsigned" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374395
<bjf> i'm getting a "Code Update In Progress" when attempting to access the staging server, any guess on when this will be available?
<jcsackett> bjf: it can depend on what happens during the update, but in my experience not too long.
<bjf> jcsackett, thanks, i'll give it some more time
<lifeless> bjf: we're doing a full restore.
<lifeless> bjf: be 24 hours or so
<bjf> lifeless, ouch
<lifeless> bjf: you could use qastaging
<bjf> lifeless, ok, will try that
<bjf> lifeless, Service Temporarily Unavailable   (qastaging)
<maxb> How come jaunty is not present under PPA supported series at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas, but it still accepts uploads?
* jcsackett changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<achiang> lamont: hi, are the buildds ... cranky right now?
<wgrant> achiang: What's up?
<wgrant> They look OK to me.
<achiang> wgrant: hm, i uploaded a package to a PPA (private, OEM) about 30 minutes ago, and haven't received mail that it was accepted yet
<wgrant> achiang: That's well before it gets near the buildds.
<wgrant> So it's well before it enters lamont's domain.
<achiang> wgrant: ok, sorry for the noise then
<wgrant> Let's see..
<wgrant> Uploads are being processed OK at the moment. Are you sure you signed it properly and everything?
<achiang> wgrant: pretty sure. i have something set in my dput.cf that won't let me upload unless it's signed
<achiang> wgrant: some things are moving again. this is probably an oem specific thing, please don't waste any more time on me. :)
<achiang> wgrant: although maybe you could help answer me another question -- in a debian/control file, i have Architecture: all which means it is architecture independent. i currently see it building in launchpad with a little i386 icon. is that just the default for an "all" build?
<wgrant> achiang: Right, Architecture: all is built on i386 at the moment.
<achiang> wgrant: ok, thanks
#launchpad 2010-12-03
<maxb> There's no means to tell why a recipe build was triggered, is there?
<maxb> i.e. daily vs. user?
<wgrant> I don't believe so.
<wgrant> Other than the timestamp.
<lifeless> maxb: there is a bug
<fta> it seems the interval between a dput and lp saying "src pkg published" is increasing, something like 30min now, is that expected?
<lifeless> maxb: 682515
<wgrant> fta: We have a known performance issue in the publisher. It's under investigation.
<fta> ok, thanks
<smo__> hi
<smo__> i try to upload a new xcur2png package for maverick with the same version than lucid i just edited the changelog file in debian and it s rejected
<smo__> File xcur2png_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz already exists in Gstyle PPA, but uploaded version has different contents. See more information about this error in https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors.
<smo__> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<smo__> how can i use dput to not upload the orig.tar.gz???
<smo__> i just changed -2 with -3 for the version and maverick instead of unstable in the changelog...
<micahg> smo__: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<smo__> i looked
<smo__> not helping me
<smo__> i can t get the source form the ppa (and it s the same)
<smo__> and debuild -S it s what i already do :(
<micahg> smo__: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage
<smo__> oh no sorry
<smo__> i read
<maxb> smo__: OK, I think the first thing you should do is check why you have an orig.tar.gz that is different to what's currently in the PPA
<smo__> i use dput -d -f
<smo__> or -d alone
<smo__> it s always sending the tar.gz
<maxb> Where did you obtain the xcur2png_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz on your local computer?
<smo__> i don t understand
<maxb> You downloaded it from somewhere. Where?
<smo__> i can t do debuild -S if i dont have those tar.gz
<smo__> cliapps.org
<smo__> i already have it on my ppa but for lucid
<smo__> i just want the same package/source but for maverick
<maxb> The problem is you currently have a xcur2png_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz file on your local computer which is different to the file of the same name that you uploaded to your PPA before
<smo__> i understand
<maxb> You should download the file from your PPA, and check whether the differences matter or not.
<smo__> on launchpad it ask to download the same source already uploaded but i can t
<maxb> I don't understand what you're saying
<smo__> i can t download the original source
<smo__> https://launchpad.net/~s-lagui/+archive/ppa
<smo__> ^^
<smo__> https://launchpad.net/~s-lagui/+archive/ppa/+files/xcur2png_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz
<smo__> Thereâs no page with this address in Launchpad.
<smo__> ...
<wgrant> smo__: Try http://ppa.launchpad.net/s-lagui/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xcur2png/xcur2png_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz
<smo__> so i can for exemple edit a changelog file (extracted from the orig.tar.gz) without updating it after edit ? (sorry for me english...)
<smo__> it works wgrant thanks
<smo__> dput done, waiting for the email
<smo__> thanks
<wgrant> smo__: Did you rerun debuild -S?
<smo__> yes
<smo__> signed...
<smo__> Accepted:
<smo__>  OK: xcur2png_0.7.1.orig.tar.gz
<smo__>  OK: xcur2png_0.7.1-3.diff.gz
<smo__>  OK: xcur2png_0.7.1-3.dsc
<smo__>      -> Component: main Section: x11
<smo__> good, thanks
<MTecknology> Is there any easy way to upload a build for multiple releases?
<MTecknology> as in.. not needing to change it in the change log, and then debuild, and then upload, and then wait - for each one
<wgrant> MTecknology: Recipes are good for that, if you can use them.
<wgrant> Otherwise it's scriptable...
<wgrant> But why wait?
<MTecknology> wgrant: because of a bug involving quilt
<MTecknology> :'(
<wgrant> Oh?
<MTecknology> It fails building if the package uses quilt
<wgrant> Oh, right.
<MTecknology> I really really really wish that would get fixed
<achiang> hello, i was wondering if someone could explain the lag between a build finishing and publishing the binaries. i'm in no rush, just curious about what the delay is all about, and why the length of the delay seems variable
<wgrant> achiang: Publishing is performed by a 5-minutely cron job on a separate machine.
<wgrant> achiang: Unfortunately the publisher has been taking several times that interval recently.
<achiang> ah.
<wgrant> So it doesn't run every 5 minutes at the moment.
<wgrant> Investigation is ongoing.
<achiang> that would be the "variable" bit.
<achiang> wgrant: thanks for the explanation
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: jtv | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<soren> I have some e-mail in the moderation queue on a list managed by launchpad. How can I tell why it's being held for moderation?
<jtv> soren: hang on, I'll see if I can find someone to answer that
<jtv> soren: you've hit a bad timezone to ask, I'm afraid.
<jtv> You'll probably have to wait until the Americas come online.
<jtv> soren: if you can stick around, try asking garyposter in about 5 hours.
<soren> jtv: Sure, I'm not going anywhere. Thanks.
<hrw> hi
<hrw> LP question: is it possible to do bug query against few packages?
<hrw> like: "show me all bugs on package1 package2 pkg3"
<jtv> hrw: not that I know.
<jtv> hrw: you could cheat a little though by copy-pasting search-page URLs into multiple browser tabs and editing the package names.
<hrw> jtv: thats not even cheating
<hrw> thx for info
<jtv> hrw: we think of it as cheating because it means working around missing UI.  :-)
<hrw> ok
<beerpages> Kostenlose mini Homepages fÃ¼r Umfragen, Videos und vielem mehr auf www.beerpages.de - Beispiel: http://www.beerpages.de/view/1P/Magst%20du%20%C3%84pfel%3F
<hay09> hi
<hay09> i want to download your patch for squid3
<hay09> which support socks 5
* flacoste changed the topic of #launchpad to: New mailing lists requests are not being processed: we are investigating | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: jtv | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<adamw> hey, folks, quick q: is there a standard way to be notified of new releases for a launchpad project?
<adamw> i can't see rss feeds or anything
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to: New mailing lists requests are not being processed: we are investigating | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<deryck> adamw, if the project makes announcements, they'll be on the announcements page with a feed.  For example, see: https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+announcements
<deryck> adamw, is that the sort of thing you're looking for?
<deryck> These should linked from the project overview page, too.
<adamw> deryck: that's the kind of thing, yup, but the project in question apparently doesn't do announcements :/
<adamw> deryck: i figured there could be an automated RSS feed for each app that gets updated whenever a new release is done
<adamw> deryck: seems like it'd be pretty easy
<deryck> I'm not sure how we do announcements actually.  I'm sure sinzui knows and could comment.
 * deryck is too lazy to go look at code
<adamw> =)
<adamw> to be specific, the one i'm looking at atm is dee
<adamw> https://launchpad.net/dee
<adamw> no announcements, but like all it has a downloads sidebar with 'latest version is' info, so obviously launchpad can figure it out
<adamw> so i was just hoping there was a standard way to get some kind of push notification when the latest version changes.
<sinzui> adamw, the downloads button is populate when there is a file uploaded to a release on the current series
<sinzui> adamw, announcements are created when a project owner chooses to create an announcement. You can ask members of https://launchpad.net/~dxpmteam to make announcements
<adamw> sinzui: it's not that i specifically want announcements, deryck just suggested that as a way of getting what i wanted
<adamw> sinzui: what i want is exactly to be notified when a file is uploaded to a release on the current series
<sinzui> adamw, that is a known feature request
 * sinzui looks for bug id
<adamw> sinzui: ah, cool, thanks
<sinzui> adamw, Bug #424189
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 424189 in Launchpad Registry "Subscribe to milestones and series" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424189
<adamw> sinzui: thanks again
<geser> is the upload processor swamped? I got no emails yet for uploads 30 min ago
<bigjools> geser: I am checking
<bigjools> geser: someone uploaded a load of langpacks.  It's swamped.
<lallenlowe> hey guys, trying to do a release, getting this error:
<lallenlowe> ERROR: quickly can't release: 0.1 seems to be already released. Choose another name.
<lallenlowe> I have a 0.1 milestone, but no release
<lallenlowe> is there ANY way I can force it to work?
<lallenlowe> or something I can delete on launchpad?
<jelmer> lallenlowe: probably best to ask in #quickly
<lallenlowe> jelmer: I did, it's actually not a quickly problem
<lallenlowe> launchpad is keeping references to deleted releases or something
#launchpad 2010-12-04
<dothebart> hm, rfid card reader with the new german computer bild.
<falktx> hey guys
<falktx> I'm having an issue with a package
<falktx> it build sucessfully, but now seems like it is stuck on the upload process
<falktx> (it is like this for about 10 hours now)
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+sourcepub/1384496/+listing-archive-extra
<falktx> the amd64 build
<falktx> can you check it for me?
<falktx> maybe it will fix itself if I upload it again?
<falktx> anyone?
<ari-tczew> falktx: just ask
<ari-tczew> maybe anyone will answer
<falktx> i already asked
<falktx> I'll repeat...
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+sourcepub/1384496/+listing-archive-extra
<falktx> I'm having an issue with a package
<falktx> it build sucessfully, but now seems like it is stuck on the upload process
<ari-tczew> falktx: ah sorry, I just opened IRC client
<falktx> can you check it for me?
<falktx> ari-tczew: it's ok
<falktx> I try a re-upload, but I dont get any mail about the package
 * ari-tczew is looking
<falktx> ari-tczew: thanks
<ari-tczew> falktx: and what's the problem? do you want to upload new revision?
<falktx> ari-tczew: the amd64 upload is stuck
<falktx> ari-tczew: just got the email about my re-upload
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+sourcepub/1385005/+listing-archive-extra
<ari-tczew> falktx: ah right, process has been hanged. soyuz admin should fix this problem
<ari-tczew> I can't help, sorry.
<falktx> ari-tczew: does re-uploading ^ fixes the issue?
<ari-tczew> falktx: Dunno. But you can try.  Just bump rev version in debian/changelog.
<falktx> ari-tczew: yep, that's what I did
<falktx> ari-tczew: btw, why do this happen?
<ari-tczew> falktx: IMHO server issue.
<falktx> it happens to me often...
<ari-tczew> falktx: I noticed that your PPA is pretty busy.
<falktx> hehe, yep
<falktx> it's getting full again...
<ari-tczew>     7.6 GiB (95.27%) of 8.0 GiB
<falktx> ari-tczew: i'm about to release a new version of my distro, so...
<ari-tczew> maybe there is a problem
<falktx> ari-tczew: what do you mean?
<ari-tczew> falktx: maybe more free space on PPA will resolve hanging publish processes.
<ari-tczew> I'm not launchpad/soyuz expert.
<falktx> ari-tczew: i'm about to create a kernel only PPA, and move the kernel there
<falktx> it should save at least ~300mb
<ari-tczew> nice
<falktx> launchpad rocks!
<falktx> i would never be able to host so many software on my own...
<trijntje> Hi all, I've recently started a moderated team with mailinglist on Launchpad, and I would like to make the mailinglist open to all. I've been looking around but I cannot seem to find this option, can someone provide me with a pointer?
<tsimpson> I don't think that is possible, only team members can participate in the list
<trijntje> thats too bad, I would really like to have the list open
<tsimpson> the archives will be open to anyone, just subscriptions will be limited to team members
<trijntje> tsimpson, ok, thanks for the information, ill have to think about some other way to communicate with pending team members
<tsimpson> LP does let you send messages to anyone via the "Contact this user" link
<tsimpson> I'm also pretty sure someone could post to the list via the "Contact this teams members" link, if the team has the list set as the contact address
<tsimpson> well, have it put in the moderation queue anyway
<trijntje> the thing is that its a translation team, so that new members will be pending and only suggesting translations for quite some time untill their translations are good enough. During that time it would be great if they could follow and post to the mailinglist
<share> why is launchpad slow
<share> r u being ddosed
<spackel> is there a way to change ownership of a team in launchpad?
<jussi> spackel: click change details on the right, then go to the bottom and click change owner.
<spackel> jussi: oh, thanks, i guess i didn't see that before.  >.<  sorry if i wasted your time.
<jussi> spackel: no probs - Ive missed it before and had to ask, so thats why I knew :)
<jussi> Is there a way to make all the members of a team automatically be added to the launchpad ML?
<tsimpson> I doubt it
<tsimpson> MLs are supposed to be opt-in
<hendry> how do i get a tarball of https://code.launchpad.net/~jolting/c2esp/trunk ?
<_habnabit> If I have a bug that's filed against the wrong branch, is there a way to move it?
<wolfrage> Hi I want to confirm a few things. One you can not make blueprints for a PPA in launch pad correct?
<maco> wolfrage: blueprints are for projects
<wolfrage> With that in mind is it ok to create a project for a patch that I am creating. The patch is actually a feature plugin. It is for Empathy/Telepathy in order to support OTR. I basicly want this because i want to be able to share blueprints and allow others to help me, as I have gotten a few people together that have offered to help.
<wolfrage> Any one?
<maco> sure, why not?
<maco> a plugin sounds like a project to me
<_habnabit> Er, a series. That's what I was thinking of.
<_habnabit> If I have a bug filed against the wrong series, how can I fix that?
<wolfrage> OK so I am going to create a project and I will link it to the bug and the upstream projects.
<wolfrage> maco: thank you for your help!
<lifeless> maco: if its going in one codebase, it should be one project.
<lifeless> maco: so patches, shouldn't be new projects, it just confuses things, performs poorly.
<lifeless> wolfrage: ^ if your code is going to be in a totally new VCS tree, making a project is reasonable, otherwise I'd work under the empathy/telepathy project banner
<wolfrage> lifeless: I have actually decided to use the Git Repos on Freedesktop, after further talking things over with the telepathy developers.
<wolfrage> lifeless: thank you though.
#launchpad 2010-12-05
<Sarvatt_> are the maverick buildd's messed up? I'm getting failures like this that I can't reproduce locally - https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+build/2081191/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.xserver-xorg-video-intel_2%3A2.13.901%2Bgit20101205.c2fac6ca-0ubuntu0sarvatt2~maverick_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Sarvatt_> checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
<Sarvatt_> configure: error: in `/build/buildd/xserver-xorg-video-intel-2.13.901+git20101205.c2fac6ca/build':
<Sarvatt_> configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
<Sarvatt_> was ok about 12 hours ago, affecting multiple X driver packages just on maverick
<geser> can you modify the package to output config.log if configure fails to see the exact reason?
<geser> gcc-4.5 didn't change for over a week now
<geser> ah, maverick and not natty, sorry; but getting config.log will help to see where exactly it fails in configure
<Sarvatt_> it's using 4.4 on maverick and just started in the last 12 hours where the same packages built fine. trying to figure out how to do that now
<geser> adding " || cat config.log" to the configure call in debian/rules should do it
<Sarvatt_> uploaded, will show up https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all soon
<Sarvatt_> (all the input driver failures there are different and expected)
<Sarvatt_> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/60149920/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.xserver-xorg-video-intel_2%3A2.13.901%2Bgit20101205.c2fac6ca-0ubuntu0sarvatt3~maverick_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Sarvatt_> for x-x-v-savage that failed the same way the only change in the past 14 hours since it succeeded was a version bump in configure.ac
<geser> /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h:39: fatal error: linux/limits.h: No such file or directory
<geser> that seems to be the problem
<Sarvatt_> hmm maybe linux-libc-dev is screwed up in the PPA
<geser> the official maverick linux build contains that file in linux-libc-dev
<Sarvatt_> 2.6.37-8.20 was copied into the PPA about the same time the failures started, looks like the problem is in there. thanks geser
<Sarvatt_> yep 2.6.37-8's linux-libc-dev is screwed up, that was it
<geser> thanks for finding this bug
<fta> "You are over quota on people.ubuntu.com", is there a way to get an extension? i use that space mostly to pass files to security sponsors and to upstream
<micahg> fta: per the wiki, I believe you have to mail rt at ubuntu dot com for this
<fta> micahg, ok, thanks
<fta> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-proposed/+archive/ppa/+build/2075614  no build log?
<lifeless> fta: ah, I think theres a bug about that.
<lifeless> wgrant: ^ ftbfs with no build log
<lifeless> fta: I'd search in launchpad-project bugs for that
<thumper> morning
<ScottK> Would some launchpad person please see if they can find the link to the build log for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/4:4.7.1-0ubuntu4/+build/2052893
<ScottK> It just says failed to build, but no log.
<ScottK> wgrant: ^^^?
<Laney> fta just mentione a similar issue for a PPA
<fta> (for a native ppa, not sure if it matters though)
<lifeless> jelmer: ^
<jelmer> lifeless: thanks, looking
<jelmer> fta: what was your build?
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-proposed/+archive/ppa/+build/2075614
<jelmer> ScottK, fta, lifeless: it looks like there were some temporary issues scanning builders late yesterday. I'm going to file a bug about this and retry the problematic (half a dozen) builds.
<fta> ack
<thewrath> hey all
<thewrath> do you have a plugin or what not if code is hosted on git?
<thumper> thewrath: git repositories can be imported into bzr, but launchpad does not host git natively
<thewrath> thumper, so i would have to import them manually then?
<thumper> thewrath: no, launchpad has an import service
<thumper> and the git one is quite good
<thumper> as long as it doesn't use submodules
<thewrath> not that i am aware :)
#launchpad 2011-11-28
<lifeless> s0cialc0d3r: have you opened a ticket on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad ?
<s0cialc0d3r> lifeless: It's in rt, canonical support and isd support
<s0cialc0d3r> lifeless: I can't currently log in
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> if its in rt someone should get to it soon
<lifeless> these issues are really annoying to all concerned :(
<s0cialc0d3r> lifeless: It's been in rt for months, they said they'd forward it to ISD, and still no response :P
<lifeless> its probably stuck then
<lifeless> whats the rt ?
<lifeless> (ISD can't fix it - needs an LP database tweak)
<agentzh> hello, i've joined the team and its mailing list here: https://launchpad.net/~drizzle-discuss
<agentzh> but i cannot receive mails from the list and my mails sent to the list seem to be ignored at least by the list archive here: https://lists.launchpad.net/drizzle-discuss/
<agentzh> can anyone help me with this issue?
<agentzh> my account name on launchpad.net is "agentzh".
<wgrant> agentzh: When did you subscribe to the mailing list?
<wgrant> agentzh: I see that your gmail address was added to the list about 16 hours ago.
<agentzh> wgrant: about 16 hours ago.
<agentzh> wgrant: i've sent an email to the list right after i joined the list.
<agentzh> wgrant: about 16 hours ago too.
<wgrant> agentzh: From which email address? Your primary Launchpad address?
<agentzh> wgrant: and my mail does not appear in the mailing list archive here: https://lists.launchpad.net/drizzle-discuss/
<agentzh> wgrant: yes, from my primary email address.
<agentzh> agentzh@gmail.com
<wgrant> What was the subject?
<wgrant> I see no incoming emails from that address.
<wgrant> Where'd you send the email?
<agentzh> the subject is "drizzle no longer supports building libdrizzle 1.0 separately?"
<agentzh> i sent it to drizzle-discuss@lists.launchpad.net
<agentzh> wgrant: thank you for taking the time to look into this for me :)
<wgrant> I've asked a sysadmin to check MTA logs.
<agentzh> wgrant: thanks :)
<wgrant> Since no email from you ever hit mailman, AFAICT. But I see other messages coming through fine.
<agentzh> wgrant: it's weird.
<agentzh> wgrant: should i resend it?
<wgrant> agentzh: Worth a try, I guess.
<wgrant> I'll watch logs.
<agentzh> okay, i'll do it now.
<agentzh> wgrant: just sent :)
<wgrant> Let's see what happens.
<agentzh> cool :)
<wgrant> There we are
<wgrant> http://www.mail-archive.com/drizzle-discuss@lists.launchpad.net/msg08148.html
<wgrant> How odd.
<agentzh> ah
<agentzh> wgrant: thanks!
<wgrant> agentzh: np. Not sure what happened to the original email...
<agentzh> wgrant: so it takes some delay to show my mails up in the archive https://lists.launchpad.net/drizzle-discuss/ ?
<wgrant> agentzh: The Launchpad one is a bit slow to update at the moment. The one on mail-archive.com should always be up to date.
<wgrant> (all public Launchpad lists are forwarded to mail-archive.com)
<agentzh> wgrant: thanks for the info :)
<agentzh> wgrant: i'll use the archive link that you provide.
<agentzh> wgrant: the only drawback is that it seems to be blocked here in China and i have to use a foreign proxy to access it without a connection timeout ;)
<wgrant> agentzh: Ugh, lovely :/
<agentzh> :)
<mrevell> i
<mrevell> Hi
<dpm> hi all, several people are reporting that the Ubuntu translations stats in Launchpad are not getting updated, could someone perhaps have a look at it?
<lifeless> elmo: s0cialc0d3r above is the user with login issues. I didn't manage to get the RT number from him.
<lifeless> elmo: (if you are interested ;:P)
* benji changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: benji | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ron__> Can anyone help i cant find anything on google but im having issues pushing my code revisions to launchpad, it changes the revision number when i commit and updates the change log on the page but doesnât upload the files and it's driving me potty
<dobey> ron__: what do you mean "doesn't upload the files" ?
<dobey> ron__: did you forget to bzr add new files?
<ron__> maybe.. let me try that first
<ron__> ah.. yes it looks like its pushing the files now, pardon my stupidity, this is my first project :)
<ron__> thanks
<komputes> SPAM found here (last comment): https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/303679
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 303679 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "Creative Labs CA0106 Soundblaster SB Audigy LS [1102:0007] is not properly supported" [Undecided,Fix released]
<benji> komputes: I'll take a look
<komputes> thx benji
<Resistance> can an lp admin peek at this: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/179644
<Resistance> been sitting there >= 48 hours without a response after i put more info in
<Resistance> (at least according to my system, which *might* have the wrong timestamp)
<benji> komputes: do you mean comment #31?  That's the only (semi-) spammy message I see.
<komputes> benji: last one just an email address
<komputes> only spammy indeed
<benji> I'll hide it.  It looks more like an accident... or something.
<komputes> ok
<komputes> Resistance: can you actually remove a project?
<Resistance> komputes, afaict it can be done, but i'm not an admin.
<Resistance> hence the question ;P
<Kiall> Anyone know why https://launchpad.net/builders occasionally says "Not allowed here. Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page."
<benji> Resistance: done
<Resistance> benji, thanks much.
<benji> my pleasure
<achiang> hello, i joined ~launchpad-beta-users in order to try and use the custom bug listings, but i'm not seeing the gear to set options
<achiang> s/users/testers/
<wgrant> achiang: We've just turned that off temporarily.
<wgrant> achiang: As it's recently broken in Chromium. It will hopefully be back on in a day or so.
<wgrant> (the blog post is being updated to say that)
<achiang> wgrant: ah, ok. thanks
<achiang> curious, is it broken for all webkit browsers? or just chromium?
<wgrant> I'm not sure.
<achiang> ok, no biggie
<nailora> i sent a mail to a launchpad mailing list 40 minutes ago and it has not been delivered. any idea where it might hang?
<lifeless> nailora: which list ?
<nailora> simple-scan-users@lists.launchpad.net
<nailora> but it is available in the archive now since a few moments
<nailora> it is not yet delivered to my mail account, though (I will get my own posts, won't I?)
<lifeless> I believe so, yes. Unless you're using something like gmail which hides duplicate message ids
<aj00200> Is it possible to rename a branch like lp:anonplus to lp:anonplus-git?
<lifeless> that would involve renaming the project not the branch
<lifeless> and yes, it is possible
<lifeless> I don't think it would make sense though
<aj00200> um
<aj00200> oh, I think I see. I need to change lp:anonplus to link to a different branch?
<lifeless> lp:anonplus is a directory lookup it says 'the branch linked to trunk of anonplus'
<aj00200> Thanks, lifeless. I got it to work
#launchpad 2011-11-29
<GridCube> im trying to sign the CoC but when trying to connect to the keysrver i get this: No se pudo comunicar con  el servidor Â«keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371Â»: Internal Server Error
<danhg> Morning
<mrevell> Hallo
<pitti> hello everyone
<pitti> who is responsible for http://bazaar.launchpad.net?
<nigelb> That's loggerhead.
<nigelb> Still LP :)
<pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.precise/ ceased to exist in the last day or few days
<pitti> and it's not obvious why
<pitti> (this makes Xubuntu CD builds fail)
<Peng> pitti: See #bzr.
<pitti> right, going back there, sorry for the noise
<Peng> pitti: This *is* the right channel, but jam figured it out in #bzr.
<mpt> Huh, that's weird
<mpt> Google now *sometimes* strips the "Bug #XYZ in package-name (Ubuntu: " from page titles when returning them as search results
<mpt> e.g. http://www.google.com/search?q=trackpad+stops+working+site%3Abugs.launchpad.net
<mpt> I guess now that it shows fewer characters in page titles (to make room for the page previews), it tries harder to make the characters it does show unique ones
<mpt> or maybe it's just comparing the <title> with the <h1> and concluding that the extra stuff in the <title> is fluff
<Peng> Nah, they probably just outsource titles to MTurk.
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Translations offline 10:00-12:00UTC | https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: benji | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: Translations offline 10:00-12:00UTC | https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: gmb | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: gmb | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ev> I'm having a bit of grep fail this morning.  Where does the code for part of the workflow that locks down the branch for all commits but ones with testfix actually live?  As far as I can tell, it's not in pqm.
<mcclurmc> i'm getting the "file xxx.orig.tar.gz already exists in <ppa>" error. instead of rebuildling my source deb based on the orig.tar that the error pointed to, i deleted the package from the ppa.
<mcclurmc> even though i've deleted the orig.tar from the ppa, i still get this error. any ideas?
<bigjools> mcclurmc: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/990
<mcclurmc> bigjools: thanks for that
<mcclurmc> it's too bad i have to bump the upstream version though...
<mcclurmc> on a related note, i've found that the first time i push a package to a ppa, i have to build it with the option '-sa' to include the orig.tar in the source package, but the subsequent times that I upload a source package based on the same orig.tar, i have to disable the '-sa' option.
<mcclurmc> am i doing this right?
<geser> yes
<dpm> hi gmb, could you tell me if the second try of copying Oneiric translations to Precise work, and whether we can open the Precise translations in Launchpad? (http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/launchpad-translations-disruption-10-00-utc-2011-11-29)
<gmb> dpm: I don't know the answer to that. allenap might, I think. allenap, can you help dpm ?
<dpm> thanks gmb, forwarding the question to the right person helps already :)
<allenap> dpm: It did work, we finished at about 1100 UTC this morning. When do you want to open them?
<allenap> dpm: As far as I understand it, there ought to be a few days so that imports can happen. Jeroen knows what he's talking about, but it's now well past his EOD.
<dpm> thanks allenap, we'll have to have a look at the imports queue and approve any manual imports, but if all goes well, we were thinking after Alpha 1
<dpm> allenap, yeah, no worries, I'm familiar with the imports, generally a set of translations community members (me amongst them) take care of them
<allenap> dpm: Cool, okay, then I don't need to worry :) I think everything is ready now for you to flick the switch when you're ready.
<dpm> excellent, thanks allenap
<dpm> oh, I do have one more question: several translators reported that the translation statistics for Ubuntu in LP do not seem to update (i.e. you translate some strings, translations are saved, but the number of untranslated strings in the stats remains frozen). Could that have something to do with the Oneiric -> Precise copy operation?
<dpm> allenap, ^
<dpm> I first heard this last week, and yesterday someone was still reporting it
<allenap> dpm: I doubt it, but I don't have in-depth knowledge of Translation's data model to be able to say for sure.
<dpm> allenap, no worries. Actually, I think it's related to bug 877195
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 877195 in Launchpad itself "Move statistics updating outside the web browser code" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877195
<allenap> dpm: Ah, jolly good.
<sladen> gmb: can I get my quota for directly contacting users via +contact rasised?   I'm trying to follow up with several people who previously commented on a bug report and point them to a related one
<gmb> sladen: I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head, but I'll look into it for you presently.
<sladen> gmb: (or is there a way to unblock me for the moment)
<gmb> sladen: It looks as though the quota is a global config number, and the number of emails you've sent in the last $interval is compared to it. I don't think it's something that we can unblock without some data fudgery, but I'm still looking; bear with me...
<gmb> sladen: Unfortunately, I don't think that that's something that we can reset for you at the moment (which is probably a bug, come to think of it).
<sladen> gmb: I've added a comment to the bottom of https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/294398
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 294398 in Launchpad itself "Relax quota of 3 contact-this-user emails" [Low,Won't fix]
<gmb> sladen: Thank you. It should really be a per-user configurable limit, I think; sorry I can't do more to help you on this occasion.
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<dobey> looks like the bzr plug-in on the recipe builder machines that make the source packages is buasted
<dobey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86205590/buildlog.txt.gz
<jelmer> dobey: you have a comment in the header of your debian/control file
<jelmer> dobey: that breaks older versions of python-debian
<dobey> jelmer: precise has an older version?
<jelmer> dobey: the builders don't run precise
<jelmer> dobey: bug 804241
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 804241 in python-debian (Ubuntu) "empty leading lines in debian/control break source package name finding" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804241
<dobey> oh right
<dobey> can i get added to ~vcs-imports or something, so i can at least fix broken stuff i come across without having to track someone down willing to spend 3 minutes to do it for me?
<janimo> james_w, hi, are there bzr branches of only the debian/ dir for each ubuntu package?
<james_w> janimo, no
<janimo> I wonder what a good way to get all package metadata w.o the upstream bits
<janimo> for various packages
<dobey> janimo: grab the debian.tar.gz out of the source repo?
<janimo> dobey, does not work for packages that are not in 3.0 (quilt) form does it?
<janimo> I was hoping we have LP and some APIs and not have to use wget+scripting glue
<dobey> janimo: i guess for the non-3.0 packages you can grab the diff.gz?
<dobey> well you can get anything out of the archive via the LP API i think
<jelmer> janimo: you can export the debian/ subtree directly from launchpad with bzr for all of the packaging branches?
<janimo> jelmer, does that mean checking out the whole source though?
<jelmer> janimo: no, though it does have some other overhead
<megaribi> Hello
<megaribi> When will be translation statistics updated?
<megaribi> Until 5 days ago total statistics were updated daily and template statistics after submission, but now the list of templates shows incorrect number of untranslated and sugessted strings.
<megaribi> check
#launchpad 2011-11-30
<robert_ancell> is there a way to email a mailing list when a release is made in a launchpad project?
<poolie> robert_ancell, other than writing a mail yourself? :)
<poolie> no
<poolie> not that i know of
<robert_ancell> poolie, :(
<poolie> could be worth having a bug
<robert_ancell> I'll open one
<poolie> there is a big discussion about better notifications at the moment
<robert_ancell> poolie, distributors want it, and I keep forgetting to email the list
<robert_ancell> poolie, bug 897960
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 897960 in Launchpad itself "Add ability to generate email when a release is made" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897960
<poolie> thanks
<mrevell> Guten Morgen
<niak> Hi, I'm trying to create a Test Project. It seems that the servers is getting a code update. Does someone know when this update ends ?
<bigjools> niak: it should be done inside an hour
<niak> ok thanks =)
<wgrant> bigjools, niak: staging's a bit broken at the moment. You might be better off using qastaging.launchpad.net instead.
<niak> ok :o
<pfarrell> Hi
<pfarrell> I'm confused by launchpad's bug interface
<pfarrell> I want to see the open bugs for the fluidity project, so I go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/fluidity/, and click on "Open bugs" on the right-hand side
<pfarrell> but it still lists all of the bugs with status "Fix Committed", which in my mind are not open
<pfarrell> how do I list only the open bugs?
<nigelb> Launchpad counts Fix Comitted as open, if you click Advanced Search, you can customize the result to not have fix comitted.
<bigjools> Fix Committed is a terrible bug status
<joeye01> Fail to Add a download file to my project. The file is 130m in size. Browser returns following message after 30 minutes of trying:
<joeye01> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
<jml> Hey
<jml> I want to make someone an admin of ~twisted-dev
<jml> but I can't, even though I myself am an admin
<jml> or rather, I can't seem to find the option to do it
<jml> how can I change a member of that team to be an administrator?
<soren> You need to be the owner, don't you?
<wgrant> Right, only the owner can promote members to admins.
<jml> Ah, and "Owner" is not listed as a separate status on the members page
<jml> nice
<wgrant> Right. They're not necessarily a member.
<jml> nor indeed are they mentioned
<jml> cool.
<wgrant> No. They're only on +index.
<jml> that solves my immediate problem. thanks.
<nigelb> bigjools: There are times when I wished Launchpad let me customize bug statuses :)
<bigjools> there's good reasons to not do that :)
<wgrant> bigjools: eg?
<bigjools> it makes collaboration harder
<wgrant> Right, but using Launchpad's statuses can make it harder to manage your project.
<wgrant> and there's inexplicable stuff like Opinion :/
<pfarrell> so what does launchpad think of as "not open"? only fix released?
<wgrant> pfarrell: Fix Released, Invalid, Won't Fix and Opinion are the closed statuses.
<wgrant> They're hidden from searches by default.
<pfarrell> right
<pfarrell> I'd like to submit my opinion that "Fix Committed" being "Open" is a bit counterintuitive :-)
<wgrant> Well.
<wgrant> A bugfix that isn't released is still relevant to users, because it may affect them. And it's relevant to developers, because they might want to release it :)
<wgrant> But it's easy to exclude it from a search if you want to.
<wgrant> Or your project could just not use it.
<pfarrell> I accept all of these statements, but I don't think they counter my point :-)
<wgrant> Default bug listings show all the bugs that are in play right now.
<wgrant> All the bugs that aren't in a final state.
<wgrant> If a project is using Fix Committed, any bugs in that state are not finalised.
<pfarrell> well, thank you for explaining it
<wgrant> They're not dissimilar from In Progress.
<wgrant> As a developer looking for something to take, I'm not interested in In Progress or Fix Committed bugs.
<nigelb> As an admin for projects which use Fix Committed, I actually want it counted as Open.
<nigelb> ...
<nigelb> the timing of that was awesome :)
<wgrant> As a release manager, I want to see In Progress and Fix Committed to see how my project's doing.
<wgrant> As a user, I want to see all bugs without a fix released, because some of them affect me.
<wgrant> Why do you want to specifically exclude Fix Committed bugs?
<pfarrell> you hit the nail on the head, I think. I am a developer looking for bugs to fix, rather than a user or release manager.
<wgrant> In that case you may want to filter to Triaged, or possibly New, Incomplete, Confirmed as well.
<wgrant> It's difficult or impossible to make the defaults suit everyone, unfortunately :/
<wgrant> And different people want different default filters at different times :(
<pfarrell> true
<pfarrell> maybe it would be good to have "Developer's view", "User's view", and "Release manager's view" on the right-hand side, as those would be the three common cases?
<wgrant> That might be handy. But some projects use statuses in different ways, just to confuse things.
<l3on> allenap, ping
<allenap> l3on: Hi there.
<allenap> What's up?
<l3on> allenap, arr... nothing I'll reply directly in the bug ... sorry :P
<allenap> l3on: Okay :)
<yofel> can someone please abort the pending recipe builds from 2011-10-26 on https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/+recipe/project-neon-oxygen-gtk3 and https://code.launchpad.net/~neon/+recipe/project-neon-kgeography ? They seem stuck.
<byb> Hi all, I'm new here
<Resistance> unreg_toto, i'd stop changing your nick if i were you
<Resistance> just sayin
<Resistance> ;P
<unreg_toto> Hi boys, I was advised by one of you to come here to ask to edit/delete a bug post I made in the lauchpad web site
<unreg_toto> because the post is noise if I understand well, and above all (for me) I forgot to remove a private info in it. Is it possible an admin to edit or remove the post comment?
<unreg_toto> Sorry Resistance, I'm not very easy in irc
<unreg_toto> there no admin here ?
<tumbleweed> !patience | unreg_toto
<ubot5> unreg_toto: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<tumbleweed> err not quite appropriate here
<tumbleweed> unreg_toto: one sometimes has to wait a bit
<tumbleweed> unreg_toto: if there's something you want hidden in the bug, mark the whole bug as being private until someone can delete that comment
<unreg_toto> Thanks tumbleweed , I didn't know I could do that as it is not my own bug. Also as the comment is mine and the error in it too , I would not feel polite to change the whole to private. I read bugs about a feature in lauchpad to edit posts, but it seems postponed forever or not wanted at all. I hope launchpad is not the example Facebook followed to keep private data forever ;-)
<Resistance> oh well usually you cant if its not your own bug, iirc.
<unreg_toto> I thought this way without even give a try, why I'm here now ;)
<megaribi> Hello
<megaribi> Problem with translation statistics is still there
<lifeless> unreg_toto: hi, please open a ticket on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<lifeless> unreg_toto: specifying the comment in question
#launchpad 2011-12-01
<twb> After lines like "You are not the bug assignee nor the maintainer of kvm (Ubuntu), and therefore cannot edit this bug's status."
<twb> ...there is a form that appears to allow editing the status
<twb> For example on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/+bug/350936 there are about five of those
<twb> Make that 7
<twb> Usually when I encounter this kind of thing, it's because the app assumes I'm running a GUI browser with CSS support; this is not the case.
<wgrant> That message has been obsolete for, ooh, at least 5 years now. It should only appear when you're not logged in, and it should be hidden under the expanders by default.
<wgrant> Is it not?
<twb> I'm not logged in, I'm using w3m.
<twb> i.e. no CSS
<twb> I don't know what an "expander" is; I'm just mentioning that there's like 10 screens of stuff to scroll past before I get to the actual ticket comments, in case 1) you didn't know w3m acts that way; and 2) you care about w3m users
<wgrant> Those forms are hidden by default, and largely supplanted by the inline AJAX controls.
<wgrant> I don't think we support w3m to any significant extent.
<twb> Usually (2) doesn't apply so such reports get WONTFIXed and I don't worry too much because I don't use web apps
<twb> If those forms aren't used by anyone anymore because AJAX has replaced them, and they're hidden from normal users anyway, might be worth going through and ripping them all out.
<danhg> mrevell
<mrevell> Hey danhg
<unreg_toto> THanks lifeless , i did it
<danhg> Hey, this thing had crashed without me noticing it.
<danhg> Are we good to talk now?
<micahg> hi, I'm having trouble adding an uploader to a packageset, I get a 401 error
<achiang> hello, i experienced a crash in Precise; apport caught it and filed a bug report automatically; i'm noticing that it's private though -- is that correct? (also started here in #launchpad, can ask somewhere else if it's more relevant)
<dobey> achiang: yes that's correct; crashes are private by default (in case the core contains private info)
 * dobey wonders if there's any way to see all branches for sub-projects of a project group, that are on a specific series
<dobey> i suspect not though :(
<achiang> dobey: ok, but can an ubuntu developer see it and triage it then?
<dobey> achiang: yes; well, anyone in the bug control team i think
<dobey> or one of the ubuntu bug related teams, anyway
<achiang> dobey: got it, thanks
#launchpad 2011-12-02
<popey> I am getting a timeout when visiting a group in lp - (Error ID: OOPS-843cff6dfa2bfa8aec99953a877ff7e9)
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=843cff6dfa2bfa8aec99953a877ff7e9
<bigjools> popey: rvba is working on that as we speak, it's a known bug
<popey> thanks
<bigjools> popey: I can see the page, so ping me if you need anything
<popey> I need adding to the team
<popey> so i have access to push to a ppa there
<tumbleweed> why isn't there a link from binary_package_publishing_history back to the source that built it? LP knows that, right?
<bigjools> tumbleweed: there is, but you need to do it via the build
<tumbleweed> bigjools: and how do I get to the build from the binary?
<tumbleweed> I simply want to find what source builds a binary in a particular release
<geser> like it's possible with rmadison but with LP API?
<tumbleweed> geser: rmadison doesn't tell you that either
<tumbleweed> but DDE does (and apt)
<geser> ah, right, you can limit the output of rmadison to source package names once you know it (e.g. from apt)
 * tumbleweed commits a version of pull-lp-source that'll use DDE (until bug 597041 is fixed)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 597041 in Launchpad itself "No way to get from binary package to source package" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597041
<geser> it was "apt-cache madison" which also lists the source package(s) (if one has a deb-src line)
<tumbleweed> geser: aah
<dobey> i seem to be having some trouble building a recipe that has some patches. it seems quilt wants to apply the final patch, but then just simply exits without the patch being applied, and so fails later when patches are unapplied during debuild -S
<dobey> anyone know why that would be? building a source package locally works fine with debuild -S -sa, and bzr dailydeb recipe doesn't seem to work locally for another reason (it apparently wants the source tree to be a bzr builddeb compatible one with all the upstream-foo tags)
<kirkland> howdy all!  question about email settings in launchpad....
<kirkland> I see how I can select which email address of mine registered with Launchpad would receive mail from a given mailing list
<kirkland> but can I do that on a project-by-project, or team-by-team basis?
<kirkland> for instance, let's say I want to receive any mail about Ubuntu package/distribution bugs at kirkland@ubuntu
<kirkland> but I want to receive any mail about my upstream projects @gmail?
<kirkland> is this possible?
<Rewt`> hey all, am having the "failed to fetch" 404 errors. I don't see any ppa.launchpad.net urls in sources.list . Any suggestions?
<tumbleweed> dobey: are the patch's line-numbers current? I seem to recall dpkg-source being picky about that
<dobey> tumbleweed: yes :-/
<tumbleweed> dobey: that's all I can think of, then
<dobey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86377740/buildlog.txt.gz is one of the build logs
<tumbleweed> dobey: patch 4 is commented out in your daily packaging branch
<tumbleweed> I suspect nesting on a UDD branch with patches already applied isn't going to work that well
<dobey> tumbleweed: it is now; it wasn't when that recipe ran
<dobey> i'm not nesting on a UDD branch with patches already applied
<dobey> i'm nesting on the upstream git import
<tumbleweed> oh, right it's no tUDD
<dobey> and even if i comment out all the patches except for one, which is a one line change, it's still failing with the same error on that one patch :(
<tumbleweed> dobey: you can reproduce it locally by passing --allow-fallback-to-native
<dobey> yes
<dobey> but that doesn't really tell me anything
<dobey> bzr-builder removing the tmp directory after it fails, is very unhelpful :(
<tumbleweed> if you specify the builddir, it leaves it behind
<dobey> uhm
<dobey> tumbleweed: it seems debian/patches got removed for some reason
<tumbleweed> yeah, I see that too
<dobey> wtf?
 * tumbleweed wonders if falling back to native is responsible for that
<tumbleweed> yes, it is
<dobey> :(
<tumbleweed> just put 3.0 (native) in your debian/source/format
<dobey> seems to fix it; thanks
<Rewt`> hey all, am having the "failed to fetch" 404 errors. I don't see any ppa.launchpad.net urls in sources.list . Any suggestions?
<dobey> Rewt`: probably not a launchpad issue then? you'll have to be more specific on what is failing exactly
<Rewt`> Err http://ppa.launchpad.net oneiric/main Sources                                      404  Not Found
<bigjools> Rewt`: look in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
<Rewt`> hmm. googling that shows promise.
<Rewt`> k, now down to Err http://ppa.launchpad.net oneiric/main amd64 Packages                               404  Not Found
<bigjools> did you look where I asked?
<Rewt`> yes
<Rewt`> took out the uneeded stuff
<bigjools> one of the lines is trying to access a nonexistent PPA - you need to remove/comment anything with ppa.launchpad.net in it and add them back in one by one to see which is failing
<bigjools> alternatively look in the archives using a web browser
<Rewt`> yep, took care fo it
<Rewt`> just didn't think of sources.list.d for some reason this morning
<dobey> software-properties-gtk is a nice place to look for that :)
<komputes> SPAM found here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/575186/comments/24
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 575186 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "X locks up on Thinkpad X201 i5 Laptop" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tgm4883> Is there a way that I can download something that is in a bzr branch on LP via a python program? What I mean is, if I try through the browser, I get a link with what looks to be randomly generated and I'm unsure if that link will persist over time
<tgm4883> I get a link like  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-repos/download/head:/mythbunturepos.db-20110701013326-zkyc2b8dxf072vof-2/mythbuntu-repos.db
<dobey> bzr is a python program
<dobey> that is a link to a specific file at a specific revision in the code browser; so it will be there, unless somoene deletes the revision, or the branch
<tgm4883> dobey, well I don't want it to be a specific revision
<tgm4883> it does reference head:, so perhaps it is always the latest version?
<tgm4883> what worries me is this mythbunturepos.db-20110701013326-zkyc2b8dxf072vof-2
<tgm4883> which looks to me randomly generated
<dobey> no, that is the revision id
<tgm4883> :(
<dobey> why don't you just do bzr branch lp:~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-repos ?
<tgm4883> dobey, because then my program needs to depend on bzr
<tgm4883> let me clarify
<tgm4883> this would be downloaded when users click a "refresh" button in order to find the latest repos we have for their particular version
<tgm4883> it would be much easier for me to have them pull it from the bzr branch rather than having to manually stick that file on our website every time we update it
<dobey> hmm; i don't have an answer for you that doesn't involve putting it on the mythbuntu web site instead
<tgm4883> dobey, yea thats how it's done right now :/
<shnatsel> hello everyone
<shnatsel> description of https://launchpad.net/~papercuts-ninja says that only bugs reaching "triaged" status reach the mailing list of the team
<shnatsel> I'm setting up a similar team at https://launchpad.net/~elementary-driveby
<shnatsel> I wonder if I can do a similar thing there
<shnatsel> I'd prefer to post only assignment/unassignment messages to it, though
<shnatsel> I mean, when this team is assigned or un-assigned from a particular bug
<flacoste> shnatsel: have you look at custom subscription?
<flacoste> shnatsel: http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/better-bug-subscriptions
<flacoste> you can subscribe to bugs on your project matching certain Status/Importance
<flacoste> not possible to select only when an assignment occur though
<shnatsel> flacoste: ah... I actually have LOTS of projects, ruled by one project group, and I'd like only the assignment messages to make it into the mailing list of this team... not even for a project, but when bugs are assigned to this team.
<shnatsel> flacoste: but it's not critical, and I think I have a very narrow use case.
<shnatsel> flacoste: thanks for your help!
<flacoste> shnatsel: well, you will be emailed whenever you are assigned to a bug
<flacoste> but you'll get all emails from that point on
<flacoste> which is probably not what you want
<shnatsel> even when the team is un-assigned from the bug?
<flacoste> no, at that point you will get one email saying you were unassigned
<flacoste> and nothing beyond that
<shnatsel> ah, great
<shnatsel> that's almost what I need
<shnatsel> comments are probably OK in my case
<shnatsel> thanks again!
#launchpad 2011-12-03
<exarkun> Hey, what the hell did Baronos do to this ticket, and how can I keep him away from the rest of my tickets?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/twisted-trac-integration/+bug/898804
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 898804 in Twisted/Trac Integration "There are lots of spam users in trac" [Undecided,New]
<dobey> exarkun: looks like he accidentally changed the status, then changed it back is all
<exarkun> And I should be happy with that?
<nailora> if he should not be allowed to change it in the first place then you are officially allowed to be unhappy. if he was granted the rights at some point, what did you expect to happen?
<exarkun> I don't know who he is.  He doesn't have any particular permissions on the project.
<nailora> than maybe everyone is allowed to set bug states in your project when what you really want is to restrict that ability.
<exarkun> Great.  How can I do that?
<exarkun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/pyflakes/+configure-bugtracker is the only obvious place that such might configuration might be done, but there are no options for controlling this on that page.
<nailora> sorry, I do not know if/how you can restrict Bug access in that way. Some of the Launchpad maintainers around here should be able to tell you.
<maxb> exarkun: all users can edit bug status (except for setting restricted statuses - Triaged and Won't Fix)
<maxb> exarkun: Your anger seems disproportionate for a simple mis-click, that was fixed by the user themself only 7 seconds later
<george_e> This build has failed: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86534973/buildlog.txt.gz
<george_e> ...but I can't figure out why.
<george_e> There's a line "pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: yaml-cpp-dev (>= 0.2.7) but it is not going to be installed."
<george_e> But why isn't it going to install yaml-cpp-dev?
<george_e> That package exists in the destination PPA for this build.
<Ampelbein> george_e: What is the ppa's url?
<george_e> Ampelbein: https://code.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/+archive/juju-gui
<Ampelbein> george_e: Ok, and where is the sourcepackage you are trying to build?
<george_e> Ampelbein: This is the recipe: https://code.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/+recipe/juju-gui-daily
<george_e> This is the base branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/juju-gui/trunk
<Ampelbein> george_e: Hmm, I could be on the wrong track but: 'dpkg --compare-versions 0.2.7-0~1~precise1 ge 0.2.7' 'echo $?' returns 1 so the version requirement isn't satisfied.
<george_e> That's... odd.
<george_e> What happens if you add the '-0' to the left-hand side.
<Ampelbein> george_e: ?
<maxb> I think the subtlety here is that 0.2.7 is actually semantically equivalent to 0.2.7-0 as far as the version comparison is concerned
<maxb> this is one reason to avoid the overuse of ~ as a generic separator
<Ampelbein> maxb: Yes, sure looks that way.
<george_e> Ampelbein: I meant to say "what happens if you compare '0.2.7-0~1~precise1 ge 0.2.7-0'"?
<Ampelbein> george_e: So you meant the right side ;-) Result is the same, so maxb's suggestion seems to be correct.
<george_e> Sorry, my bad.
<Ampelbein> george_e: I suggest a versioning like 0.2.7-1~precise1 in yaml-cpp
<george_e> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/juju-gui/juju-gui-debian/view/head:/control
<george_e> Ooops. Wrong file.
<george_e> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/juju-gui/juju-gui-debian/view/head:/changelog
<maxb> 0.2.7-1~precise1 is misleading. it hints at being a derivation of 0.2.7-1
<george_e> Sorry guys... that was still the wrong link.
<george_e> THIS is the right one:
<george_e> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/yaml-cpp/yaml-cpp-debian/view/head:/changelog
<george_e> You can see I've specified the version as '0.2.7' in the debain/changelog file.
<Ampelbein> george_e: Or you use a version of 0.2.7~ in the Depends: of juju-gui
<george_e> Maybe I should ask a question over on #ubuntu-packaging.
<Ampelbein> george_e: yes, 0.2.7 is treated as 0.2.7-0 and 0.2.7-0~1~precise1 doesn't fulfill that requirement.
<george_e> Well, thanks for finding the source of the problem.
<george_e> That one was really confusing me.
<maxb> I'd suggest a version like 0.2.7-0george1~precise1
<Kiall> "0.2.7-0~1" is pre "0.2.7-0" .. and "0.2.7-0+1" is post "0.2.7-0"
<george_e> I can't change the versioning - that is done automatically by the daily build system.
<george_e> *versioning of the yaml-cpp-dev package
<maxb> that's not correct
<george_e> It isn't?
 * george_e suddenly remembers...
<maxb> only the ~precise1 suffix is enforced
<george_e> I totally forgot that the version number is set by the recipe script.
<george_e> This means I need to change the recipe script for yaml-cpp, though, right?
<maxb> yes
<george_e> ...then I'll need to wait for another build :P
<maxb> {debupstream}-0bzr{revno} would make it clear that the number is a bzr revno
<george_e> Do I need the '0' before 'bzr'?
<maxb> it would be wise
<maxb> -bzr would be considered a greater version than -999999999999999999999999
<jelmer> {debupstream}+bzr{revno} seems like a more commonly used way of writing that
<jelmer> hi maxb, btw :)
<george_e> jelmer: So I should use that format?
<jelmer> george_e: it's up to you, there is no mandatory format
<george_e> Well, I'm just wondering if that is the precedent.
<maxb> {debupstream}+bzr{revno} sounds like it's a bzr branch of the upstream, rather than a bzr branch of the packaging
<jelmer> oh, sorry, I missed a bit of context there
<maxb> Best to have a - in there clearly separating the upstream and packaging versions
<jelmer> maxb: then again, that suggests a non-native package.. and the recipe will produce a native version
<george_e> So... which format should I use?
<george_e> '-' or '+'?
<exarkun> maxb: You're right.
<exarkun> maxb: Initially I was confused by the rendering of the pair of changes.  That probably contributed to my reaction.
<george_e> Someone on #ubuntu-packaging suggested '{debupstream}+bzr{revno}-0ubuntu0+{revno:packaging}'.
<george_e> I like the idea of having the revision number of the packaging in there.
<george_e> That way I can trigger a build if all I change is the packaging.
<maxb> that would be appropriate if you had an upstream and a packaging branch involved
<maxb> do you?
<george_e> Yes.
<exarkun> maxb: It might be nice if there was an undo button to fix that kind of mistake.
<george_e> I own two branches: the upstream source branch and the packaging branch.
<george_e> I am only the author of the packaging branch, but I own both.
<jelmer> george_e: it doesn't really matter who owns the branches, anybody can create a recipe for them.
<george_e> Right.
<penguin42> lp seems to be timing out a lot at the moment (e.g. oops bcb32dd6feaa700af7b9b344107c16be )
<penguin42> I am in the dynamic bug listing trial if that makes any difference
<george_e> LP seems to be down.
<george_e> Up, never mind.
<george_e> Some of the pages are loading.
<george_e> Some aren't though.
<george_e> It seems intermittent.
<penguin42> yeh mostly down with an occasional bit of up
<george_e> I've only had one page load properly in the last 5 minutes.
<george_e> Other people are reporting that it's loading for them.
<george_e> I wonder it this is a localized issue.
<george_e> I also can't connect to some other websites.
<george_e> Maybe some network infrastructure went down.
<george_e> Launchpad is loading again.
#launchpad 2011-12-04
<broder> hmm...i bet searching for ubuntu bugs by archive component isn't indexed well enough to not timeout, is it?
<broder> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.component=3&field.has_patch=1 times out consistently for me
<broder> (yes, i realize that's not the friendliest query)
<penguin42> lots of things are timing out
<lifeless> broder: archive compoent should be fine
<lifeless> broder: I suspect its the combination :)
<broder> lifeless: no, i can't get that query to complete without the &field.has_patch=1 either
<lifeless> have you filed a bug ?
<broder> not yet
<lifeless> I will do so
<broder> thanks. feel free to subscribe me
<broder> i think that just the component query failing might be recent - i thought i played around with that during UDS or something
<lifeless> broder: what component is that ?
<broder> lifeless: universe, i believe
<lifeless> bug 899776
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 899776 in Launchpad itself "Distribution:+bugs timeout searching by component universe" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899776
<cody-somerville> Hi. Is it possible to rename a project group?
<cody-somerville> I mean, I can see that I can due to my privs but I wonder if it is actually safe to do when there are projects connected to it.
 * cody-somerville is going to give it a shot.
<wgrant_> cody-somerville: It's fine, yeah.
<Sil4nc4_> hi guys, i got the following issue: http://pastebin.com/jAVD0wzw. I can build mysql on my own box but it fails the ppa build. Any ideas?
<temoto> Hello. I uploaded source package to lp, when to expect it to be built or at least some information to change on my page?
<temoto> Here it says "no updates" https://launchpad.net/~temoto/+archive/weighttp
<temoto> Oh, forget it, i got email with errors.
<Renegade15> hi
<Renegade15> question: how do I access blueprints via launchbaselib? I've looked at related Google results, and they're all  bugs, questions and blueprints written in a time of API change and are all very convoluted and not helpful.
<tumbleweed> Renegade15: you need to use the devel api_version not 1.0, to get at most of the specification related bits: https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#specification
<Renegade15> okay, let us assume I do that...what path would I take to get to the blueprints?
<tumbleweed> if by path you mean URL, look at the URL template on the link I gave you
<Renegade15> no, I meant pythonically, if you will...like, the launchpad object exposes both bugs and projects collections...where would I find specifications?
<tumbleweed> search for getSpecification on that page
<audifahrer> Hi, I've problems with my receipe in launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~tux-style/+recipe/eflxx-daily
<audifahrer> I change the repo link from lp:~tux-style/eflxx/trunk to lp:~tux-style/eflxx/trunk/eflxx, but after save the receipe shows the old text and build is wrong in this folder.
<audifahrer> Could anyone give me a hint?
<lifeless> audifahrer: lp:~tux-style/eflxx/trunk and lp:~tux-style/eflxx/trunk/eflxx both refer to the same branch
<audifahrer> lifeless: ok, but I like launchpad to build a deb for this source: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tux-style/eflxx/trunk/files/head:/eflxx/
<audifahrer> lifeless: my first lib is named as the branch. Maybe this is confusing...
<lifeless> you need your recipe to accomodate the layout you have within your branch
<lifeless> the normal thing is to have just one library/package within a branch
<audifahrer> lifeless: ahh, ok. Didn't know this
<audifahrer> lifeless: but if you write "normal"... is there an exception to change directory to do this?
<lifeless> the recipe can control how things work
<lifeless> so yes - see the docs
<audifahrer> I read the docs, but didn't see it. I tried the run command, but failed
<audifahrer> lifeless: so, you think it's ok, if I do an import request for each deb package I like to build? Even if they're all below the same SVN trunk somewhere?
<lifeless> thats the preferred way to import from svn
<jelmer> audifahrer: the run command isn't enabled on launchpad
<audifahrer> ok, then I'll do it like this. I just didn't know it
<audifahrer> thanks
<temoto> What should i write in my packages Section ? lintian does not like "universe/web"
<micahg> temoto: that's probably a better question for #ubuntu-packaging
<temoto> Thanks.
 * micahg wonders if there's room in /topic for a pointer to #ubuntu-packaging
<EvilResistance> micahg:  you can try ;P
<stgraber> micahg: current topic length is 253, freenode's max topic length is apparently 390, so yeah, should be fine
<audifahrer> now I put one library in one branch and build receipe for it. But result is still not as expected: https://code.launchpad.net/~tux-style/+recipe/eflxx-daily
<audifahrer> why is my library (*.h, *.so,...) not inside the .deb and -dev.deb?
#launchpad 2012-11-26
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ahasenack> hi, fyi got a lp timeout when hitting the landscape +activereviews page: OOPS-b2aabc606464e059196ad57299776f34
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-b2aabc606464e059196ad57299776f34
<ahasenack> it worked on the second try, though
<shadeslayer> any ideas why https://launchpad.net/~netrunner-os/+archive/build/+build/4012232 failed to upload?
<shadeslayer> the upload log doesn't really say much
<shadeslayer> if it's a temporary issue, I could just rebuild it ....
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> czajkowski: I think I need to have a LP project renamed, how does it work? Should I just see with you? (it seems I can't from the UI)
<czajkowski> didrocks: ello yes just file a answer and I'll take care of it
<czajkowski> didrocks: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<didrocks> czajkowski: here we go! https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/215281
<czajkowski> didrocks: done and added the old name to the aliases
<didrocks> czajkowski: awesome! thanks a lot :)
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> now if they all were that easy :)
<didrocks> heh ;)
<adeuring> I am the only one having problems to access branches on LP? for example "bzr push": ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<adeuring> ConnectionReset reading response for 'BzrDir.open_2.1', retrying
<adeuring> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<mgz> nope, apparently there was just a blip
<czajkowski> adeuring: seemingly not
<czajkowski> minor wobbly thrown
<adeuring> ahh, now working again
<czajkowski> dpm_: any idea who to poke to get answers looked at tha have been assigned to the translations team
<dpm_> czajkowski, myself, launchpad developers or the ubuntu-translations-coordinators mailing list. Unfortunately I don't have much time to look at them these days :(
<czajkowski> dpm_: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+questions?field.search_text=&field.sort=RELEVANCY&field.sort-empty-marker=1&field.actions.search=Search&field.language=en&field.language-empty-marker=1&field.status=OPEN&field.status-empty-marker=1
<czajkowski> good few there
<czajkowski> LP devs not really looking at taht any more falls t me
<czajkowski> and I don't know translations as well as others
<dpm_> czajkowski, I'll try to look at them tomorrow early in the morning
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<bard> I'd like to delete an old unused launchpad account of mine but I forgot the password and the email address it's linked to is no longer active, what can I do?
<Sebo> Hi, How can I get ppa:<user>/<repository> adres from the URL https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+package/sun-java6-jre ?
<Sebo> ...anyone here?
#launchpad 2012-11-27
<TheLordOfTime> sorta
<TheLordOfTime> but there is no PPA address for that
<TheLordOfTime> you're referencing the Lucid repositories directly
<TheLordOfTime> and sun-java6-jre won't be in ANY PPA last i checked due to the change in licensing for it
<TheLordOfTime> (by Oracle)
<Sebo> So how can I add this repository to my ubuntu sources.list
<TheLordOfTime> what version of Ubuntu are you on?
<Sebo> 10.04.4 LTS
<TheLordOfTime> Sebo, you already have that repository then.
<Sebo> I might have not cause I've got corporation customised ubuntu...
<TheLordOfTime> pastebin your sources.list then
<Sebo> My /etc/apt/sources.list is empty (except some comment lines)
<Sebo> And I can pastebin the cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
<TheLordOfTime> you may want to do that
<TheLordOfTime> because if you have nothing in your sources.list, well...
<TheLordOfTime> something's not right there :p
<bigjools> well don't publicly paste it
<Sebo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1390510/
<bigjools> it might have passwords in it
<Sebo> There is no passwords there and I've cutted off our internal domain names
<ajmitch> fwiw, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2012-January/001554.html
<TheLordOfTime> ah i see what's happening there...
<ajmitch> that was the reason for deletion from lucid
<TheLordOfTime> yep that.
<TheLordOfTime> does webupd8 team still maintain java 6/7 for lucid?  i know they had a script that downloaded the data from oracle itself, and didnt contain any actual java code/programs.
<TheLordOfTime> answered my own question!
<TheLordOfTime> Sebo, use this PPA if you need Sun / Oracle Java:  https://launchpad.net/~webupd8team/+archive/java/
<TheLordOfTime> it installs the JDK, but that's about the closest you'll get to just the JRE in an easy-to-install setup.
<Sebo> Thix I think that's it... :)
<Sebo> I need jre from oracle cause the open one is not compatible with frost :p
<TheLordOfTime> the JDK has a JRE
<TheLordOfTime> it should work :p
<ScottK> Sebo: You need to talk to Oracle then.
<Sebo> To complayn them abut the pess which was caused by their non acceptance of the licence... cause I do not think I need to touch them just to use theirs jre... at least for @ windows I did not had to so why should I for @ Linux.
<ScottK> Nothing we can do about the license.  They're now distributing it under terms that make it not suitable for inclusion in Linux distros.
<bigjools> ScottK: I consider that a good thing :)
<lifeless> license of ?
<bigjools> java
<lifeless> ah
<ScottK> bigjools: No argument from me.
<YoBoY> hi
<YoBoY> a tricky question : I'm trying to understand where is the best place to fix a translation problem. The source file is in Latex, the tool to translate is Launchpad, the destination langage is french, and the problem is with the [nbsp]. In Launchpad, we use [nbsp] for non breaking spaces, but it translates them into real "Â " in the .po and not the LaTeX code "~". Latex have wondefull paquages to help with langages and this causes in some parts a double
<YoBoY> no break space. I don't know where to fix this problem, in Launchpad ? in po4a ? in Latex package ? in our french translators recomandations ? Any Idea ?
<czajkowski> YoBoY: unsure and jtv isn't here to ask
<czajkowski> YoBoY: mind mailing lp users and see if we can get a reply there ?
<YoBoY> sure :)
<YoBoY> it's launchpad-users@listsâ¦ ?
<czajkowski> launchpad-users@lists.launchpad.net
<czajkowski> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users
<czajkowski> <-- lunch
<YoBoY> bon appÃ©tit :)
<pfefferz> hello everyone
<TheLordOfTime> hiya
<pfefferz> deryck, danilos suggested I ask you about how to remove someone from a BPs subscriber list
<deryck> pfefferz: if you have the appropriate permission, you should be able to click the red minus sign icon and remove them.
<pfefferz> okay, what permission do I need for that?
<pfefferz> deryck, I'm already an admin
<deryck> pfefferz: by permission, I just meant being able to see proprietary or embargoed blueprints. in other words, if you can add someone to a blueprint, you should be able to unsubscribe them.
<pfefferz> deryck, :)
<pfefferz> deryck, okay cool. Not sure if I missed the minus last time or if it wasn't there. Anyhow, it looks good now
<deryck> pfefferz: excellent.
<pfefferz> deryck, thanks for the help
<deryck> pfefferz: np.
<therve> hi!
<therve> I have a problem with subscribing a team to bugs, I wonder if someone had an idea
<ricotz> hello :), i am curious what are prerequisites to have armhf build support for a ppa?
<ricotz> czajkowski, hello :) ^
<czajkowski> <--- on a cal
<mgz> ricotz: well, employment by canonical or linaro for starts
<mgz> we don't have good answers for other people who want to to arm builds
<ricotz> mgz, hi, i see, having arm build for elementaryOS wouldn't fit that then
<ricotz> mgz, jfyi, the concerning ppa would be https://launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+archive/daily containing daily recipe builds
<czajkowski> ricotz: hi as mgz points out, we only have those build for canonical and linaro at present
<ricotz> czajkowski, thanks, i feared that answer ;)
<flacoste> mgz, ricotz: that's not true since we virtualized ARM builders
<mgz> ah, so how do we go about giving out arm perms these days flacoste?
<flacoste> to date, we only enabled it for people with commercial subscription
<ricotz> flacoste, oh, so there is a chance
<flacoste> that's the first request from an open-source project
<czajkowski> flacoste: ah the other categroy also.
<flacoste> i'll have to investigate the impact though
<czajkowski> flacoste: we get regular requests for it also not just this
<flacoste> czajkowski, ricotz: i'll research this and come back with an official policy :-)
<ricotz> flacoste, thank you!
<czajkowski> flacoste: thanks,  for reference we get about 2-3 a week
<flacoste> czajkowski: people who want armhf builds on their PPA?
<ricotz> flacoste, it would also be possible to use a more restricted ppa do avoid flooding the arm builders with daily builds
<flacoste> ricotz: these are 386 boxes really
<czajkowski> flacoste: yes. we get asked a lot about this.
<ricotz> flacoste, ok, just saying it is reasonable to reduce the builds to avoid flooding the builders
<soren> Hi.
<soren> I need to take control of a launchpad project registered by a former employee. Can anyone help me with that?
<soren> Filed a question: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/215415
<SpamapS> when using login.launchpad.net for OpenID ..is there a restriction on querying peoples' membership in a private team?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> you need a bit set, as the openid extra-data query is itself not authenticated
<lifeless> so only trusted rp's can be allowed to query private teams
<SpamapS> makes sense
<SpamapS> I figured as much.
<lifeless> this is one of the reasons ISD and LP both want to stop offering team data via openid
<lifeless> instead, use openid for authentication and LP directly for authorisation
<SpamapS> but its so useful!
<lifeless> the functionality is
<lifeless> the conflation of AA->A isn't
#launchpad 2012-11-28
<DNS> hi:) can some1 please check whats wrong with that import â https://code.launchpad.net/~rbose-vcs-imports/emacs/trunk i can not see any error in the log or what could be wrong
<wgrant> DNS: There's nothing wrong
<wgrant> It's just importing gradually, 30000 revisions at a time
<wgrant> Rather than trying to convert potentially hundreds of thousands or millions of revisions at once
<DNS> but there are no files after "job is finished"?
<wgrant> They'll be available after the initial import is done, once the jobs start finishing completely (a green tick, rather than a grey partial success)
<DNS> ah i think i understand now:)
<DNS> wgrant: thx for the info
<wgrant> np
<DNS> wgrant: btw i filed a bug about 2 weeks ago not sure if you saw my reply: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1078172 the mc packages for example are from 2011-07-23, so i wonder if that is related to bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1071562
<StevenK> It takes two weeks for binaries to fully expire out
<DNS> but those are deleted in 2011?
<DNS> and still shown?
<DNS> i tried to delete them again thats why a new date is shown
<DNS> ok sorry im confused, it seems those files werent deleted in 2011 but should be more than 2 weeks ago now :x
<DNS> and https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/sound/+delete-packages?field.name_filter=gmidi&field.status_filter=superseded&field.series_filter= says it had a "Removal requested on 2012-03-03." so i wonder a bit
<DNS> why this is still shown
<wgrant> DNS: Things will be shown there until their files are actually removed, which most often happens if there are binaries left over (in which case you'll need to redelete), or if the source is published in another series too
<DNS> wgrant: ok, thx again for info :)
<ebergen> hooray for the ability to change a username
<profzoom> I'm trying to request a merge of a branch.  The documentation says there should be a "Propose for merging into another branch" link on the branch page, but I can't find it anywhere.  Could anyone point me in the right direction?
<wgrant> profzoom: Which page are you looking at?
<profzoom> https://code.launchpad.net/~profzoom/+junk/wmaker
<profzoom> I'm trying to request that it be merged into the wmaker package
<wgrant> profzoom: Ah, +junk branches aren't related to a project or package, so you can't propose them for merging. You might want to push to eg. lp:~profzoom/ubuntu/quantal/wmaker/bug-1079925 instead.
<wgrant> That way it will be mergable into other wmaker branches
<shadeslayer> would it be possible for someone to rescore a small build for me? it's a 5 minute build and I'll have to wait an hour before it gets built
<shadeslayer> kind of blocking my work :P
<shadeslayer> https://launchpad.net/~netrunner-os/+archive/build/+build/4018538
<czajkowski> an hour isn't that bad compared to others.
<czajkowski> but will see
<shadeslayer> czajkowski: thanks :)
<czajkowski> StevenK: could you help out please with this ppa increase
<czajkowski> I've tried to bump the score but nothing changed.
<StevenK> It didn't work, I've done so
<czajkowski> StevenK: cheers
<shadeslayer> StevenK: czajkowski thanks alot!
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/124313309/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-i386.libubuntuone_4.0.0-0ubuntu2%7Eubuntu13.04.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Laney> sad PPA buildd?
<geser> "Unrecognized character \x06 at /home/buildd/.sbuildrc line 1." nice error
<oerdnj> hi, akhlut builds are broken, do you already know it or should I report it somewhere?
<oerdnj> says: Unrecognized character \x06 at /home/buildd/.sbuildrc line 1.
<czajkowski> oerdnj: we know
<oerdnj> czajkowski: ok, cool, goot to know. no need to report bug then... thanks for the answer
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known issues: Akhlut builders are offline. Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<vankooch> Hi, I've uploaded a package to launchpadâ¦ but I've problems.. to get it build thereâ¦ it builds correct on i386 but does fail on amd64. Locally I only have a amd64, and it builds there without any problems on a clean vm and on my dev machine. A friend also tried to build it locally on his amd64 machine without any problems. All have been tested on 12.04. Can someone please help me?
<vankooch> that is the log: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/124266893/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.yate_4.2.1-ubuntu1-sico1~precise_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<xnox> launchpad has an interesting interpretation of release milestones
<xnox> https://launchpad.net/procenv/+series
<wgrant> xnox: What do you mean? Those were manually created by the project maintainer
<xnox> wgrant: sure, but the ordering is intersting it's neither: numeric, alphabetic, chronological
<xnox> wgrant: on the graph.
<wgrant> It's going to be a little confused by the v being added in some of the milestone names
<wgrant> I've never seen a project do that before
<xnox> wgrant: the latest releases for the trunk paragraph below is correct (reverse chronological?!)
<xnox> wgrant: sure. it's peculiar =) but the project is FTBFS across 12 architectures on debian and each 'release' tried to fix some of them to uncover more problems.
<wgrant> Sure, but that doesn't explain why the version scheme grew a 'v' at the start recently :)
<wgrant> Changing that half way through is likely to confuse things, so I can't really blame LP for beings somewhat confused.
<xnox> wgrant: do you want this bug of questionable value, or will you remember this as an omg "funny things launchpad users do" =)))))
<wgrant> We have enough bugs already, but if you really want to file it you can
<wgrant> I'd suggest just making the milestone naming consistent, though!
<maxb> Perhaps the bug should be "LP should document how it handles milestone ordering on the milestone creation form"
#launchpad 2012-11-29
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known issues: Akhlut builder is offline. Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known issues:-. Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known issues:-. Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<diahane1> hello guys, take a look at http://bitfungus.org/Â , if you can help is totally open source! sorry for my bad english :P
<izidor> Hi, can anybody help me find out why this build failed?
<izidor> https://launchpad.net/~gtg/+archive/gtg-daily/+recipebuild/354054
<izidor> The log says that "dh" command could not be found... Similar recipe works... :/
<czajkowski> izidor: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/124392667/buildlog.txt.gz
<czajkowski> W: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net oneiric Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY B82A968F7AC9B38F
<czajkowski> izidor: and lots more stuff at the end there
<czajkowski> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
<czajkowski> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login"
<izidor> czajkowski: but this is a build on launchpad
<izidor> czajkowski: how can I put there Launchpad ID?
<geser> izidor: you want debhelper >= 9 but oneiric doesn't have debhelper 9
<izidor> geser: okay, thank you
<mgedmin> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/quantal/accountsservice
<mgedmin> bzr: ERROR: Revision {package-import@ubuntu.com-20120327073153-fov4ysdud6fkkgw6} not present in "Graph(StackedParentsProvider(bzrlib.repository._LazyListJoin(([CachingParentsProvider(None)], []))))".
<mgedmin> which means I'm stuck on step #1 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<mgedmin> filed at https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1084522
<dobey> are there any issues with armhf/armel builders currently?
<czajkowski> dobey: none I've heard of what are you seeing/noticing
<dobey> czajkowski: i have a few builds that have been stuck since tuesday it seems
<czajkowski> dobey: can you point me at one in particular so I can poke sinzui or web ops
<dobey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/nightlies/+build/4016855
<czajkowski> dobey: any more getting it poked
<dobey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/nightlies/+build/4017238
<czajkowski> log says the buil is dead, it failed so needs to be stabbed
<dobey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/nightlies/+build/4017246
<czajkowski> dobey: ok thanks
<dobey> right; qemu seems to have some issues it seems
<czajkowski> dobey: those builds have been reset
<mgedmin> czajkowski, do you know who ought to be poked about bzr branches of ubuntu packages being inaccessible?  (http://pad.lv/1084522)
<dobey> czajkowski: thanks
<dobey> mgedmin: should generally be filed against UDD project I think
<mgedmin> ah, so I've misfiled it?
<mgz> that doesn't really resolve the "who" question :)
<czajkowski> dobey: buildds or bug with qemu ?
<dobey> czajkowski: well because the buildds use qemu, i guess. i've seen a lot of qemu weirdness with armel/armhf builds there, for the u1 packages
<czajkowski> thedac: ^^^^
<thedac> dobey: I guess my question is what action can be taken on that?
<czajkowski> mgz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1084522
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1084522 in Launchpad itself "Cannot bzr branch lp:ubuntu/quantal/accountsservice" [Undecided,New]
<dobey> thedac: i don't know. i guess if we could get a few of those nice big 192 core arm servers, that would be nice :)
<thedac> heh
<thedac> dobey: if you think of somehting file an RT or a bug
<dobey> thedac: of course. thanks
<czajkowski> dobey: or cake
<czajkowski> cake seems to work also
<dobey> yes, cake also works
<czajkowski> micahg: lp didn't fail, have more coffeee :)
<micahg> czajkowski: I think it did, there wasn't a previous version in the archive, yet a diff to one is provided
<micahg> czajkowski: I should file a bug :)
<czajkowski> please do :)
<czajkowski> after you've had a coffee
 * xnox thought malone serves coffee upon bug submission =)
<ooguz>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER ooguz wsabetaequqx
<lifeless> yeah, you're going to want to change that password now.
<mapreri> a good alphabetical password, though
<mark06> hi, I was testing the hide comment thing to see what it does exactly, but now I can't show the comment again anymore, the comment just disappeared, is this a bug?
<czajkowski> micahg: no it's possible to unhinde
<czajkowski> what i
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> mark06: no it's possible
<czajkowski> which bug
<mark06> czajkowski: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-eclipse/+bug/428838
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 428838 in Bazaar Plugin for Eclipse "BZR operations hang or show malformed dialog" [High,Triaged]
<mark06> comments 4 and 5
<czajkowski> fixed
<czajkowski> please dont play with bugss :)
<mark06> please write proper software
<mark06> one that explains that hide actually deletes the comment, and one that won't make the dark-highlighted, "hidden" comment disappear together with the unhide option out of nothing, and so forth
<mark06> thanks anyway
<DNS> hm the emacs import has now "green arrows" but the files are still not imported, seems the progress keeps hanging https://code.launchpad.net/~rbose-vcs-imports/emacs/trunk
<mwhudson> DNS: i see files at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rbose-vcs-imports/emacs/trunk/files
<DNS> mwhudson: nice, i didnt recognize
<DNS> just it still says "Updating branch" on the overview page, thats why i thought theres still nothing
<DNS> (and no recent revisions to see)
<dobey> the branch scanner probably got tripped up on it for some reason
<DNS> i didnt know you give your machines drugs :o
<DNS> jk
<mwhudson> the scanner likes mescal, i hear
#launchpad 2012-11-30
<JoseeAntonioR> hey guys! I'd like to know how does the jenkins launchpad plugin works with scripttrigger, so I can start using it in a while
<mangdood> Hi, how might I change my password on Launchpad?
<ebergen> https://login.launchpad.net/
<mangdood> Whoa. I never thought the link would be.... so simple.
<mangdood> It's not going to ask me for my current password though? It seems rather dangerous if someone gets on your computer
<ebergen> the login stuff is kind of wonky now because it is all the unity single sign on
<ebergen> *shrug* I'm just another user
<mangdood> :P I guess I'll send them an email?
<wgrant> mangdood: That's bug #829836
<mangdood> ...I guess not. Whatever, I've changed my password so my problem is solved
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 829836 in Canonical SSO provider "Password can be changed with only cookie authentication" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829836
<mangdood> Oh my. It's been a year and it hasn't changed. Like most bugs.
<ccxCZ> hello, is it possible to generate the +series graph without the whole launchpad suite? what component does that?
<czajkowski> hmm not sure
<czajkowski> StevenK: is it possible?
<hyperair> that graph is probably generated on the client side
<hyperair> (considering how it's draggable and all)
<ccxCZ> well, it's a canvas element
<ccxCZ> but I'm more asking on how to get that data, I can run it through graphviz or similar
<bibinou> hi
<bibinou> I got spam in a bug report : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quodlibet/+bug/601741/comments/7
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 601741 in quodlibet (Ubuntu) "playing module (s3m, xm, mod, it...) files produces silence" [Undecided,Invalid]
<bibinou> I think the poor guy got his email hacked
<czajkowski> spam removed
<bibinou> thanks
<czajkowski> np
<bibinou> you banned him ?
<bibinou> nice 410 :)
<czajkowski> no that was done a long time ago
<JoseeAntonioR> Hey guys, do any of you have an idea of how does the jenkins launchpad plugin works with ScriptTrigger?
<czajkowski> matsubara: any ide where to point JoseeAntonioR in the right direction
<matsubara> I think the jenkins jobs I use, use a custom trigger (the code is in lp:autopkgtest)
<JoseeAntonioR> already spoken to mmrazik, solved :)
<JoseeAntonioR> thanks a lot guys
<xnox> JoseeAntonioR: for the record lp:auto-package-testing has full source code for the trigger on source changes in the ubuntu archive, but that is not launchpad specific.
<xnox> JoseeAntonioR: there is also tarmac which integrates with launchpad merge proposals, branches and jenkins.
<xnox> JoseeAntonioR: check the wiki about it.
<JoseeAntonioR> xnox: will do, thanks a lot!
<xnox> czajkowski: all things jenkins redirect to -> #ubuntu-quality =)
<xnox> czajkowski: generally there are no special things on launchpad-side, it more-or-less purely works against launchpad api.
<czajkowski> xnox: I know but JoseeAntonioR had already asked in anothe channel as well
<czajkowski> so just kinda wanted to help him as well
<czajkowski> xnox: we also get lts of things that are not lp related in here as well :)
<xnox> fair enough =)))))
<xnox> ;-)
<tedg> Hey, is there a way to get to http://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork from the GUI?
<xnox> tedg: I'd like to know as well =)
<tedg> xnox, It's a secret page... shhhh!  :-)
<xnox> =)))))))))))))))))))))
<ScottK> Oh, that's a nice one.
<czajkowski> not so secret
<czajkowski> rather handy :)
<mgz> +freechocolate on the other hand, is secret.
<czajkowski> hmm I've had no chocolate today, this could be one of the reasons I'm rather sleepy
<Daviey> Anyone know how i can download a *.changes from a private ppa?  urllib fails, as it isn't signed in...  (url obtained from auth'd changesFileUrl() call)
<czajkowski> sinzui: any idea if that's possible?
<micahg> Daviey: the security team has scripts to do that
<sinzui> Daviey, your script needs to load your credentials to get access. I don't have an example of how to do it.
<Daviey> sinzui: Ah, i might have that.. thanks
<Daviey> i hoped lplib had a built in wrapping of urllib :)
<bjsnider> my bot's log says that it uploaded a bunch of packages to my ppa on the 17th, but the ppa has no record of it. launchpad also did not email me about it
<bjsnider> is it possible for launchpad to just lose those packages?
<Aaron> hey i have a question i was trying to change my email from timido@ubuntu.com to aaron@ubuntu.com
<Aaron> but the launchpad profile aaron is taken
<Aaron> any suggestions?
<dobey> bjsnider: is it authenticated to launchpad as a user that owns the PPA?
<bjsnider> yes
<bjsnider> it it worked fine before and has worked fine after this date
<czajkowski> Aaron: a user already has that lp name
<czajkowski> Aaron: and as the lp id name is what the @ubuntu.com address uses you can't change it
<czajkowski> you could contact the person and see if they are still using it
<czajkowski> while people may not be active in LP they could use their account for other things
<dobey> bjsnider: not sure why that would happen then
<Aaron> the guy does not look active
<dobey> Aaron: maybe he doesn't use launchpad, but uses other services
<czajkowski> Aaron: well folks don't have to be active :) again people subscibe to bugs, have the same login for ubuntu forums or AU all with the same login and refer to their lp pages.
<czajkowski> dobey: :) great minds!
<dobey> maybe he uses Ubuntu One on Windows only or Android or something. :)
<czajkowski> or a mac!
<czajkowski> anyting is possible you know :p
<dobey> not yet :)
<TheLordOfTime> i assume i can't change my username on LP unless i close my current PPAs?
#launchpad 2012-12-01
<smartboyhw> Hi guys, have a question: In PPA daily builds why does it add a ~raring1 to it? And how to remove it?
#launchpad 2012-12-02
<JoseeAntonioR> hey guys, any way you could delete https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/606452/comments/17 ? It's spam in a bug
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 606452 in software-center (Ubuntu Lucid) "software-center crash on load, UnboundLocalError in _get_channels" [High,Fix released]
<DNS> looks like the account is "hacked"
<DNS> because the profile do not look like a spammer https://launchpad.net/~bryanforbes
<DNS> registered 2006 even
<JoseeAntonioR> hmm, right
<ashleyludlow> is launchpad down righ now?
<ashleyludlow> anyone? i cant get launchpad.net to come up. i can get the login.launchpad.net, but i cant see my profile page or ..anything..
<DNS> ashleyludlow: for me it works, maybe clean your browser cache or try to refresh browser (if its ff) with shift key + refresh
<ashleyludlow> no i had someoone else check it and its blocked as "web hosting" on the network
<ashleyludlow> im useing public wifi
<ashleyludlow> thanks though
<eugenyp> Is it possible to have separate source packages per architecture in a PPA? I have precompiled closed-source binaries for i386 and amd64 that I would like to have in my PPA
<DNS> not possible, you can not upload binaries to lp
<DNS> but you can have seperate source packages per arch, if you edit the control file just to build one arch
<eugenyp> http://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/02/how-to-prepare-a-compiled-application-for-ubuntu-software-center/
<eugenyp> this explains uploading binaries to USC
<eugenyp> if I can have separate source per arch, that's great, thanks
<czajkowski> lamont: I spoke too soon :(
<czajkowski> lifeless:
#launchpad 2013-11-25
<cmars> hi, i'm having a problem with an account used with a private project, it seems to have lost its email address. can someone please help me out?
<DarkPlayer> wgrant: ping?
<wgrant> DarkPlayer: Hi
<DarkPlayer> wgrant: does the priority for commercial subscribers also apply to recipe builds?
<wgrant> DarkPlayer: Yes.
<DarkPlayer> wgrant: We decided to put everything into a single (or to be precise two: daily/stable) ppa now so that new users will only have to add one. For current users we can to copy the packages also to the old PPAs. Do you need to manually set the priority for the two added ones although they are assigned to the team?
<wgrant> DarkPlayer: Do you actually need to do builds in those PPAs at all?
<wgrant> Oh
<wgrant> You mean the new ones, right
<wgrant> Those should already build quickly.
<DarkPlayer> wgrant: you can remove the build priority from the old ones soon, after we completely switched to them
<DarkPlayer> hmm
<ehoover> DarkPlayer: there may have just been a huge backlog
<wgrant> Hmm, I can't see what happened here, but if it happens again give me a poke and I'll hunt harder
#launchpad 2013-11-26
<Legendario> I'm trying to figure out which is my @ubuntu.com alias going to be but I can't figure out what is my launchpad username
<Legendario> does anyone know exactly what it is?
<wgrant> Legendario: In the top right corner of each Launchpad page you'll see your details formatted as "Display Name (username)"
<wgrant> The bit in the parentheses is your username
<wgrant> You can also see and change it at https://launchpad.net/~/+edit
<Legendario> wgrant, well i tried to send an email to this username@ubuntu.com but didn't get it
<Legendario> do I have to change something else?
<Legendario> my contact address to username@ubuntu.com too
<Legendario> ?
<wgrant> Legendario: Have you read through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail?
<wgrant> It can take a couple of days for an alias to be created or changed.
<wgrant> Your preferred/contact address must *not* be @ubuntu.com.
<wgrant> If the alias still doesn't work after a couple of days, email rt@ubuntu.com as described on that page.
<Legendario> wgrant, I'll try that since it has been a while. thanks a lot
<Legendario> wgrant, just saw i did that november, 13th with no answer so far. Any idea?
<wgrant> Legendario: Perhaps ask in #canonical-sysadmin.
<hloeung> Legendario: replied to your ticket
<xnox> Is there a way to query / view _all_ workitems for myself? (past / present / future / done / unapproved blueprints)
<dpm> hi all, could someone give me a hand figuring out why I get a failure to upload for saucy/i386 here? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+recipe/signon-plugin-oauth2-daily
<dobey> dpm: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157658819/upload_593246_log.txt isn't descriptive enough?
<dpm> dobey, I couldn't quite understand it, hence the question. Not sure why the uploaded version has different contents, as this is a package built from a daily recipe, not uploaded manually, and it uploaded fine for the other arches
<dobey> dpm: arch is irrelevant. source packages don't have an arch. but the same version already exists in that PPA and was uploaded on Nov 15
<dobey> oh the i386 build failed then though. and it happened before whatever is required for Launchpad to show the "retry this build" link
<dobey> so someone with appropriate privs will need to trigger the rebuild
<dobey> (i don't have them)
<dobey> cjwatson: ^^ do you have perms to trigger rebuild of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily/+build/5234666 ?
<dpm> dobey, I've retriggered a rebuild for saucy, and I got the "Could not be uploaded correctly" on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+recipe/signon-plugin-oauth2-daily from 49 minutes ago
<dobey> dpm: no, you rebuilt the recipe, not the i386 binary build
<dpm> ah, ok
<dobey> dpm: you can't upload the same version twice to a PPA
<cjwatson> dobey: done, though I haven't checked whether it'll actually help
<dobey> dpm: which is why the upload failed
<cjwatson> oh, yeah, retriggering the recipe build was a mistake
<cjwatson> recipe builds emit source packages
<dpm> ok
<dpm> thanks dobey, cjwatson
<cjwatson> seems built now
<shadeslayer> hey, I was wondering, does anyone know of a way to get a list of maintained packages from a team object in the launchpad API?
<shadeslayer> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/+maintained-packages
<shadeslayer> kind of like that ^^
<dobey> shadeslayer: for ppa in team.ppas_collection: ppa.getPublishedSources() ?
<dobey> don't recall if the _collection is necessary or not in launchpadlib
<dobey> shadeslayer: oh, nevermind. you want packages that are *in* ubuntu?
<shadeslayer> correct
<shadeslayer> what I'm trying to do : A bunch of KDE packages seem to fail on arm64 with the error "The bug is not reproducible, so it is likely a hardware or OS problem."
<shadeslayer> I wanted to write a script to get a list of packages maintained by kubuntu-members, fetch the arm64 buildlog, parse the log to check if this line exists, if it does, rebuild the pacakge
<cjwatson> you don't really need to bother - I do that in bulk across the whole archive
<shadeslayer> oh
<shadeslayer> :D
<dobey> shadeslayer: distro_series.main_archive.getBuildRecords() and filter the result set down to ones that have arm64 as the arch, and filter that result set to ones maintained by kubuntu-members. you'll probably have to get the source and check the control file to get the maintainer
 * cjwatson kicks off a run
<dobey> or just don't do it :)
<cjwatson> it's not Kubuntu-specific so there's no point in everyone reinventing this
<shadeslayer> agreed :)
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: thanks :)
<cjwatson> (I currently do it by way of parsing http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/arm64.html as the crude least-effort option)
<dobey> that's probably much easier than doing it via the api, indeed
<cjwatson> though I probably *could* do it via the API now that DistroArchSeries.getBuildRecords exists
<cjwatson> but meh, haven't bothered to rewrite that script
<dobey> yeah, if you're doing it for the whole archive, getBuildRecoreds would be enough
<shadeslayer> dobey: cjwatson though there's no way to get the maintained-packages list from the launchpad API?
<shadeslayer> useful for other status pages
<dobey> shadeslayer: no. i don't think the data in debian/control is coerced into db entries in the lp database directly
<shadeslayer> oh interesting, I thought that since the ui shows it, the data would be coerced somewhere
<dobey> at least, i don't see any API to do that directly. you'd have to get each individual source control file and parse it to get the Maintainer field
<dobey> shadeslayer: well there might be something that parses Maintainer to create that link in launchpad. i don't know exactly. lp source is pretty complex and trying to figure it out isn't something i want to do :)
<shadeslayer> likewise ^^
<cjwatson> Person:getLatestMaintainedPackages isn't exported, unfortunately
<cjwatson> Not necessarily hard to fix
<cjwatson> (Though it isn't my itch and I should avoid getting sidetracked from current work)
<cjwatson> It'd be in lib/lp/registry/interfaces/person.py, search for getLatestMaintainedPackages, it'd probably want @export_read_operation plus tests
<cjwatson> And probably similar for nearby related methods
#launchpad 2013-11-27
<chandankumar> hello
<chandankumar> I am not able to login through wiki.openstack.org through launchpad-id.
<chandankumar> it is telling that the following username is not found.
<chandankumar> what will i do now?
<wgrant> chandankumar: Which username did you try?
<chandankumar> wgrant, chandankumar.093047
<wgrant> chandankumar: Where did you enter the username, and which URL gives you the error?
<wgrant> The OpenStack wiki's OpenID integration should not ask for a username in a normal situation.
<chandankumar> wgrant, https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&action=submitlogin&type=login&returnto=Main+Page&returntoquery=welcome%3Dyes
<chandankumar> wgrant, There is no user by the name "Chandankumar.093047". Usernames are case sensitive. Check your spelling, or create a new account.
<chandankumar> wgrant, i have tried it by changing all the cases, but not able to login
<wgrant> chandankumar: That sounds like an error from OpenStack's wiki, not from Launchpad or Ubuntu's OpenID service. You'll need to talk to OpenStack people about that.
<chandankumar> wgrant, ok
<chandankumar> wgrant, Thanks
 * mpt just went to reply to a misguided bug comment, only to find that its author had already hidden the comment themselves â¥
<wgrant> :)
<seb128> hey
<seb128> how does one see who is admin for a project? (e.g can edit its details)
<seb128> e.g https://launchpad.net/shotwell
<seb128> is that the Maintainer?
<cjwatson> Yep
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks
<cjwatson> Drivers can do some things as well, though I see that project doesn't have any
<seb128> seems like Jim doesn't know he's admin for that project
<cjwatson> I can check specific permissions for specific things if you need it
<seb128> cjwatson, context is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/1254923/comments/2
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1254923 in shotwell (Ubuntu) "Source repo has moved" [Low,Incomplete]
<seb128> cjwatson, they also want to claim ownership for some of their projects, I guess https://launchpad.net/~registry is still the right place (I had that in my old notes)
<seb128> well, the "file a request on answers"
<wgrant> For a git URL change we can just alter the existing branch.
<wgrant> Since it seems the repository has just moved.
<cjwatson> Jim should have a pencil icon next to his name on https://launchpad.net/shotwell that he can use to reassign it to a team if he wants.
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks
<seb128> wgrant, that would be nice, indeed they migrated to https://git.gnome.org/browse/shotwell/log/
<seb128> well git://git.gnome.org/shotwell
<seb128> rather
<wgrant> seb128: Done, and the branch has reimported.
<seb128> wgrant, excellent, thanks!
<mattymo> I'm having issues finding a doc on this, but how can I configure who can approve blueprints for my project on LP?
<cjwatson> mattymo: The definition status of a blueprint can be changed by (a) Launchpad admins (b) the maintainer of the blueprint's target/goal (c) a driver of the blueprint's target/goal (d) the owner, drafter, assignee, or approver of the blueprint.
<cjwatson> mattymo: The usual way to configure this is to set a team as your project's "driver" and then add people to that team.
<mattymo> I believe I understand and follow you
<mattymo> cjwatson, all the fields can be changed though, including status can be marked complete without the approver actually approving, it seems
<cjwatson> The exact order of the approval workflow isn't enforced, no
<cjwatson> In practice in Ubuntu we've normally found that it's better to let developers clean up themselves without needing to go and get a manager to sign off ...
<mattymo> cjwatson, informal workflow process - got it. I understand the benefits
<qengho> I wish to have a PPA that I can use for testing, and be able to give to the security team to copy files out of for their pocket. I think I need some special attributes set, but I don't know which ones. I need help.
<qengho> I think the builders for ARMHF and such have to be non-virt, or native.
<cjwatson> The PPA must be devirtualised
<cjwatson> (For all architectures, not that you get a choice)
<qengho> I filed this https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/239046 already.
<cjwatson> Right, you'll need a webop to do that for you.
<cjwatson> Ask on #webops internal.
<qengho> Ah, thanks, cjw.
<cjwatson> There shouldn't be any other relevant requirements.
<shadeslayer> cjwatson: are there plans to whitelist arm64 from britney so that packages can transition to -release even if arm64 isn't built?
<shadeslayer> or do I just ask it to be forced
<dobey> shadeslayer: questions about ubuntu-specific stuff are probably better suited to being asked in #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-release
<shadeslayer> okay
<dobey> shadeslayer: and that sounds like maybe a release team decision
<shadeslayer> *nod*
<czajkowski> jamespage: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/405743351087235072
<mgz> czajkowski: irc linking a twitter link to a web link is pretty funny :)
<czajkowski> mgz: well yes but as it was the easiest
<mgz> :)O
<czajkowski> mgz: also howdy :D
<czajkowski> how've you been
<mgz> good, though winter is rubbish. and you?
<czajkowski> good thanks, just got a puppy and working away.
<czajkowski> heading to Barcelona this weekend for work and then countdown for Christmas!
<mgz> ha, bet spain is a little warmer, lucky you
<czajkowski> 3 days and working as long as I ge ta nice dinner I won't mind
#launchpad 2013-11-29
<crass> Anyone know the cause of the error: "dpkg-source: error: can't build with source format '3.0 (native)': native package version may not have a revision"?
<crass> I see that for this build: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/157850442/buildlog.txt.gz
<crass> however, the source/format for that build should be "3.0 (quilt)", not native
<crass> is this an issue with trusty? its the first time I've seen it
<wgrant> crass: A recent change in trusty's dpkg-source causes it to reject non-native versions for native packages.
<wgrant> crass: But bzr-builder is converting the package to 3.0 (native) because it can't find pristine-tar metadata to reconstruct the orig tarball.
<wgrant> It's done that conversion for just about ever, but dpkg-source previously didn't complain that the version was invalid.
<wgrant> You'll need to either switch to a native version string or inject appropriate pristine-tar metadata into the branch (eg. using bzr import-upstream)
<crass> wgrant: thanks! looking into that now
<crass> wgrant: so I can't use non-native versions for automatic builds from bzr repos imported from other vcs types?
<wgrant> crass: You might be able to do it by telling the recipe to merge a separate branch that just has the pristine-tar tags in it, but I'm not entirely sure.
<crass> wgrant: this seems to make daily build package versioning unworkable
<crass> there is no pristine tarball for a dailybuild
<crass> you could create one, but that seems to defeat the purpose
<wgrant> crass: You can't directly use a 1.0.0+bzr1234-0ppa1~ubuntu12.04.1 version any more, no.
<wgrant> You could use 1.0.0+bzr1234+0ppa1~ubuntu12.04.1, or 1.0.0-bzr1234+0ppa1~ubuntu12.04.1, though
<wgrant> 1.0.0+bzr1234-0ppa1~ubuntu12.04.1 for a native package doesn't make sense and is illegal, but dpkg didn't previously reject it.
<crass> why is it illegal? what is the restrictions on the revision?
<crass> thanks for point out this work around
<wgrant> crass: The final hyphen delineates the boundary between the upstream version and Debian revision.
<crass> I'm trying to think of what if any side-effects would be to changing the - to a +
<wgrant> A native package by definition has no upstream version.
<wgrant> Yeah, there are some side-effects
<wgrant> Because the version is not compared as a single element, but as a tuple of (epoch, upstream, debian)
<crass> that would seem to say that version comparison between native and non-native doesn't make sense
<wgrant> In the case of a native package, upstream is now enforced to be null.
<crass> oh, so it will never be seen as upgradable?
<wgrant> Ah actually, technically a native package is all upstream version, not all Debian version.
<wgrant> For that reason.
<crass> ok, that's what I'd expect
<wgrant> I misremembered.
<wgrant> So the Debian version is everything after the final hyphen.
<wgrant> Rather than the upstream version being everything before the final hyphen.
<crass> right, but it makes the most sense to put the extra stuff in the version in the debian revision, no?
<crass> ok, I think I see why not
<wgrant> I'd probably use 1.0.0+bzr1234blahblahblah to create a native tarball each time
<wgrant> But in some cases it's possible preferable to use 1.0.0-bzr1234 or similar, to have all the changes since 1.0.0 in a patch
<wgrant> But I'd normally prefer the former, I think
<crass> yeah, I think that achieves the same results as the former behavior
<crass> ok, so that does make sense then
<crass> hmm or not, in my scheme the rDDD after the '-' is for the packaging revision, which doesn't modify the source
<crass> since the upstream is from an arbitrary revision there is not upstream release / tarball
<crass> it would be nice if bzr-builder could create a pristine tarball if one didn't exist, but the version format would have to be assumed
<seb128> hey
<seb128> could somebody mark https://code.launchpad.net/~gerardo-santana/gnome-control-center/gnome-control-center/+merge/109335 as rejected
<seb128> (or get me out of the reviewer list, it's annoying that random people can put stuff in your +activereviews that you can't get out then)
<arun_> hello guys , how can we host a ppa repo in launchpad ?
<arun__> hello guys , how can we host a ppa repo in launchpad ?
<arun__> wgrant: are u there/.
<wgrant> arun__: Hello.
<arun__> wgrant: hi how are u >?
<arun__> wgrant: brother, I am thinking of hosting a repo for updates for our Distro , i would like if Launchpad will be able to help us !!!
<wgrant> arun__: Have you tried using a PPA?
<arun__> wgrant: brother, I am thinking of hosting a repo for updates for our Distro , i would like if Launchpad will be able to help us !!!
<arun__> wgrant: sorry for the disconnection
<arun__> wgrant: hello are u ther?
<wgrant> arun__: Does a PPA suit your needs?
<arun__> wgrant: I think so, We just need to provide updates to our distro and softwares that are binary forms .... , and I think PPA can be done
<dch> hey, Iâve started work on upgrading (& maintaining going forward) the official couchdb ppa, at lp/couchdb
<dch> what I *want* to do is to clone the current work in trusty, and work from there. But I canât see where/how to clone an existing lp branch, any suggestion?
<dch> Iâm new to lp & bzr, so a bit lost despite reading all the docs.
<wgrant> dch: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/couchdb
<wgrant> arun__: Is there some issue you'r ehaving with using a PPA?
<wgrant> dch: Are you intending to use a recipe to create a daily build PPA?
<dch> wgrant: aha! so I grab the branch (not a copy option in gui) treat it like a git repo, and when Iâm happy, push it back to our ppa then?
<arun__> wgrant: so shouldn't I need to host a ppa repo ?
<wgrant> dch: PPAs contain packages, not actual branches.
<dch> wgrant: in mid term that would be even better, yes. For the moment (next 2 weeks) I just want to provide a known latest formal release build for each of the supported ubuntus
<wgrant> You can use a recipe to create a package directly from a branch
<arun__> wgrant: We wanted a repo for our Distro
<wgrant> Or upload a source package to Launchpad over (S)FTP
<arun__> wgrant: then , in binary format how will it be transformed??
<dch> wgrant: I think creating from a branch makes more sense, then its all happy src control. One of the other packages is built from a single diff against couchdb-0.1.1 which as you can imagine is pretty unweildy.
<dch> wgrant: thanks, Iâll look at recipes this afternoon.
<wgrant> dch: Well, you have to create a package, branch or not. A recipe can automate that for you within Launchpad, if it fits your situation.
<wgrant> arun__: I'm not quite sure what you mean. What exactly do you want to do? Have you read through https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA and tried creating a PPA?
<arun__> wgrant: no I haven't  I wanted to ask you that, is PPA suitable for us to host the binary packages to provide upates and software packages for our Distro ?
<wgrant> arun__: How do you normally host the packages for your distro?
<wgrant> Is it just an additional set of packages on top of the main Ubuntu archive?
<arun__> wgrant:  yes !! it uses the Ubuntu repo as well, we wanted to updates for our software center, update packages , our software package owned by us ...
<wgrant> A PPA would probably work for you, then.
<seb128> wgrant, hey, could you mark https://code.launchpad.net/~gerardo-santana/gnome-control-center/gnome-control-center/+merge/109335 as rejected (or remove me from the reviewer list)
<arun__> wgrant: yaa, so I need to 1st upload my codes to the bazar yaa
<wgrant> seb128: Done
<seb128> wgrant, thanks
<wgrant> arun__: You can just upload a package directly; you don't need to use bzr
<arun__> wgrant: oh using the bzr ??
<arun__> wgrant: oh how??
<arun__> wgrant: should I upload the codes also or can just upload the binary ?
<arun__> wgrant: *need
<arun__> wgrant: should I need upload the codes also or can just upload the binary ?
<wgrant> arun__: Read through https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<wgrant> Launchpad only accepts source uploads; you cannot upload binaries.
<arun__> wgrant: and how will that be converted to the deb file ??
<arun__> wgrant: will you do that dude?
<wgrant> arun__: Launchpad builds the source package into a binary.
<arun__> wgrant: oh ok sounds cool !!! thanks bro !!!
<AlanBell> is there any API access to the mailing list bit of launchpad?
<AlanBell> or a search facility?
<wgrant> AlanBell: Theres no built-in search facility or API, but general Web search engines do a pretty good job.
<AlanBell> ok
<shadeslayer_> whoa
<shadeslayer_> just 1 builder for amd64?
<shadeslayer_> and 41 for i386?
<cjwatson> they're pooled now
<cjwatson> it's just that the queue length displays don't quite understand that yet
<cjwatson> it's actually 41 pooled between i386 and amd64, and one extra for amd64 as a temporary workaround so that amd64 doesn't vanish from the queue length displays entirely
<cjwatson> the "40 hours" is a total lie right now :-)
<cjwatson> in fact, 41 pooled between i386/amd64/armel/armhf
<cjwatson> or partly so anyway
<shadeslayer_> ah makes sense
 * shadeslayer_ was scared for a bit :P
#launchpad 2013-11-30
<ryanakca> Is there a way not to receive PPA messages for teams of which I am part?
<elacheche_anis> Hey :)
<DarkPlayer> hi, is it possible to setup a git import for a code branch which is not part of a project? It is possible to push personal bzr branches, but i didn't find any way to specify a code import this way. Is there maybe some way which is only available through the api?
<elacheche_anis> I'm looking to change the ML of a LP groupe to a private one, how can I do that :)
<wgrant> DarkPlayer: You can't create one directly, but you could create one in a project and then retarget it to +junk :)
<DarkPlayer> wgrant: okay lol, I sometimes get the impression that launchpad is not complete yet ;-)
<DarkPlayer> wgrant: then i will try a git import via http, btw thanks for solving the related bug some time ago
#launchpad 2013-12-01
<Ynnaf> Hey, I shall ask a very very basic question. Tho, nobody helps. Nor on ubuntu nor on mint. So I'm quite stuck and I don't know if it's because it's silly, or because nobody actually knows or spend 5sec explaining me :/
<Ynnaf> there it is : for adding this PPA https://launchpad.net/~oibaf/+archive/graphics-drivers is "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers" good or what ? I'm really not familiar with it :(
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: this command will add the repository to your sources.list
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: it will not directly install any packages
<Ynnaf> Coud you tell me where I am mistaking after it ? I'm doing a "apt-get update"
<Ynnaf> then
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: since this repository contains packages with the same name as the ones provided by ubuntu, they will replaced when you execute
<Ynnaf> I try to install th added package in the PPA, and fails to find it.
<DarkPlayer> sudo apt-get update
<DarkPlayer> sudo apt-get upgrade
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: which specific package do you want to install?
<Ynnaf> ho, necessarly upgrade for seeing the new packages ?
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: now, but it is necessary to upgrade from the original ubuntu packages to the ones in the ppa
<DarkPlayer> no*
<Ynnaf> I want to install libg3dvl-mesa
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: which ubuntu version are you using?
<Ynnaf> fa@i5 ~/Bureau $ uname -a
<Ynnaf> Linux i5 3.8.0-19-generic #29-Ubuntu SMP Wed Apr 17 18:16:28 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<DarkPlayer> that is only the kernel version
<DarkPlayer> execute  cat /etc/os-release  | grep VERSION
<Ynnaf> Well I'm on mint15, dunno what the version of the ubuntu base :/
<Ynnaf> VERSION="13.04, Raring Ringtail"
<Ynnaf> VERSION_ID="13.04"
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: the packages in this PPA are only for Saucy
<Ynnaf> Ho no ! :/
<DarkPlayer> that is the reason why you can not use / install them
<Ynnaf> I so like you giving me this answer. Even if I hate me losing a hour on that.
<Ynnaf> The reason why I wanted this is actually this error "Failed to open VDPAU backend libvdpau_r600.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: you may be able to build the packages on your own, but i am not sure if this is a good idea since the grpahic stack (xorg, mesa, ...) changes a lot between ubuntu/mint versions
<Ynnaf> well I don't want to fo too far in this. I'm not very familiar with the graphics stacks :'(
<Ynnaf> *go
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: the regular VDPAU support for radeon cards btw is only available since kernel 3.10
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: i am not sure if you would also need a more recent kernel or if this package tries to solve the problem differently
<Ynnaf> well
<Ynnaf> I don't know either
<Ynnaf> I'm so stuck Ã©_Ã¨
<Ynnaf> aherm
<Ynnaf> well, maybe I'll just avoid this specific software. (I wish everyone was on archlinux rolling release, I'll not have to face 80 different error on each station :( )
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: which program do you have problems with?
<Ynnaf> mplayer, I'm trying to import VHS videos ^^
<Ynnaf> Well, I coud maybe do it from another linux in a virtualbox ? :o
<DarkPlayer> well, vdpau is only for accelerating video output/decoding so it is not really necessary
<Ynnaf> are you sure about this ? I Mean everything work but
<Ynnaf> I don't get any sound
<DarkPlayer> vdpau is for video and not sound ^^
<Ynnaf> Andgetting this error about VDPAU may have turned my mind to say "this is the cause"
<Ynnaf> well
<Ynnaf> that is even more disturbing
<DarkPlayer> does your sound work in other applications ?
<Ynnaf> yeah perfectly
<Ynnaf> yeah perfectly
<DarkPlayer> you say you want to import VHS videos, mplayer can only play content, do you instead mean mencoder ?
<Ynnaf> mplayer and mencoder are using the same engine, tho
<Ynnaf> the problem is when I import the video, i can't get the sound
<DarkPlayer> yeah, but there is a difference if there is no sound during the recoding or during the playback of the recorded file
<Ynnaf> in the two case, no video
<Ynnaf> tried the two of them
<Ynnaf> tho, doing it on video is a way to find why there is no sound faster, right ?
<DarkPlayer> <Ynnaf> in the two case, no video <-- you mean sound?
<Ynnaf> yeah, sorry :/
<DarkPlayer> what is your mplayer command line ?
<Ynnaf> there is the command & output if you know ho it work ; http://pastebin.com/btwqEjdB
<Ynnaf> *how
<Ynnaf> well
<Ynnaf> I could have removed all the "brightness=0:contrast=-7:hue=0:saturation=0:width=720:height=576:device=/dev/video0:norm=PAL-BG:input=2:fps=25.000:alsa:adevice=hw.0,2,0", I added a lot without doing what I wanted. Only giving the driver works...
<DarkPlayer> i think your problem is "Audio: no sound"
<Ynnaf> exacly
<Ynnaf> But how to trace that ? :(
<Ynnaf> maybe another driver ?
<Ynnaf> what about "Selected input hasn't got a tuner!" ?
<DarkPlayer> try:
<DarkPlayer> mplayer -tv driver=v4l2:brightness=0:contrast=-7:hue=0:saturation=0:width=720:height=576:device=/dev/video0:norm=PAL-BG:input=2:fps=25.000:alsa:adevice=hw.0:forceaudio:immediatemode=0 tv://MPlayer2
<Ynnaf> strange
<Ynnaf> "Error opening audio: Device or resource busy
<Ynnaf> "
<Ynnaf> also, when I redo my first try it works without problem
<DarkPlayer> yeah because the audio device is not used at all
<DarkPlayer> you need to specify forceaudio if you want to record from a separate device
<Ynnaf> it is not a serparated device oO
<Ynnaf> evrything is on the same USB coming from a numeric/analogic converter
<DarkPlayer> though mplayer does not detect it as a single one
<Ynnaf> I even got (dunno why) sound at a time. Even if it was scratchy as hell. Now I just get "no sound"
<Ynnaf> "mplayer -tv driver=v4l2:forceaudio tv://" don't seem to do sound
<DarkPlayer> try this one:
<DarkPlayer> mplayer -tv driver=v4l2:brightness=0:contrast=-7:hue=0:saturation=0:width=720:height=576:device=/dev/video0:norm=PAL-BG:input=2:fps=25.000:alsa:adevice=hw.0,2,0:forceaudio:immediatemode=0 tv://MPlayer2
<DarkPlayer> i accidentally stripped out the exact alsa subdevice in my previous cmdline
<Ynnaf> well
<Ynnaf> you can trash all, you know.
<Ynnaf> "mplayer -tv tv://" is enought to make it work x)
<Ynnaf> without sound
<Ynnaf> Herh
<Ynnaf> no sound either
<Ynnaf> well, maybe it's a lost cause.
<DarkPlayer> are you sure that adevice=hw.0,2,0 is the correct subdevice?
<Ynnaf> No i'm not
<Ynnaf> x)
<Ynnaf> How can I list the subdevices ?
<DarkPlayer> arecord -l
<Ynnaf> (I tried several way, tho I have not that much experience :/)
<DarkPlayer> this should list all recording devices
<Ynnaf> Ok, i want this one : carte 2: G1 [Terratec G1], pÃ©riphÃ©rique 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
<Ynnaf>   Sous-pÃ©riphÃ©riques: 0/1
<Ynnaf>   Sous-pÃ©riphÃ©rique #0: subdevice #0
<Ynnaf> is that hw.2,0,0 ?
<DarkPlayer> you should then try:
<DarkPlayer> mplayer -tv driver=v4l2:brightness=0:contrast=-7:hue=0:saturation=0:width=720:height=576:device=/dev/video0:norm=PAL-BG:input=2:fps=25.000:alsa:adevice=hw.2:forceaudio:immediatemode=0 tv://MPlayer2
<Ynnaf> Error opening audio: Device or resource busy
<DarkPlayer> yeah it seems that another device is currently using this one
<DarkPlayer> another program*
<Ynnaf> ho
<Ynnaf> making "immediatemode=1" it works
<Ynnaf> tho
<Ynnaf> without sound
<Ynnaf> I'll try to see pulseaudio if the sound is set
<Ynnaf> no wait
<Ynnaf> "no sound" is written before
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: you may find the program which is using the sound device with:
<DarkPlayer> lsof /dev/snd/*
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa  mem    CHR 116,10          11341 /dev/snd/pcmC2D0c
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa  mem    CHR  116,4            532 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa  mem    CHR  116,3            531 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   24u   CHR  116,6      0t0   534 /dev/snd/controlC0
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   29u   CHR  116,6      0t0   534 /dev/snd/controlC0
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   30u   CHR  116,6      0t0   534 /dev/snd/controlC0
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   31u   CHR  116,6      0t0   534 /dev/snd/controlC0
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   36u   CHR 116,11      0t0 11342 /dev/snd/controlC2
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   37u   CHR  116,3      0t0   531 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   45u   CHR  116,4      0t0   532 /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c
<Ynnaf> pulseaudi 1863   fa   46u   CHR 116,10      0t0 11341 /dev/snd/pcmC2D0c
<Ynnaf> Oops
<Ynnaf> should have used pastbin
<Ynnaf> I don't get it
<Ynnaf> the device is /dev/video0
<Ynnaf> No one is using it
<Ynnaf> seem it can't access the thing for video and sound at the same time
<Ynnaf> how odd.
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: the audio device is
<DarkPlayer> /dev/snd/controlC2
<DarkPlayer> /dev/snd/pcmC2D0c
<Ynnaf> ho !
<Ynnaf> So maybe
<Ynnaf> Should I just kill pulseaudio and use alsa for the importation process ?
<Ynnaf> when I don't specify alsa it says "Unable to open 'hw.2': No such file or directory
<Ynnaf> " when I do "Error opening audio: Device or resource busy
<Ynnaf> " :O Let kill pulseaudio, then.
<DarkPlayer> pulseaudio will automatically restart
<Ynnaf> you are right :/
<Ynnaf> In /etc/pulse/client.conf, you can uncomment the line autospawn=yes and
<Ynnaf> to "no"
<DarkPlayer> echo autospawn=no > ~/.pulse/client.conf
<Ynnaf> well o/
<Ynnaf> That is faster :D
<DarkPlayer> this will only disable it for your current user
<DarkPlayer> but you should remove the filter later
<DarkPlayer> file*
<DarkPlayer> otherwise you will only be able to play sound in one program
<Ynnaf> ok
<Ynnaf> (ho
<Ynnaf> (you sure about that ?)
<DarkPlayer> yes
<Ynnaf> (I tho pulseaudio was just a mixer for sound and input/output management)
<DarkPlayer> pulseaudio does software mixing for sound cards which do not support hardware mixing, which is the majority
<Ynnaf> ho
<Ynnaf> thanks for the story o/
<Ynnaf> the command seem to run but
<Ynnaf> I'm not sure if there is actually sound
<Ynnaf> Maybe alsa isn't outputing in the right place
<DarkPlayer> that is possible
<Ynnaf> well
<DarkPlayer> take a look at
<DarkPlayer> aplay -l
<DarkPlayer> for the output devices
<Ynnaf> **** Liste des PÃ©riphÃ©riques MatÃ©riels PLAYBACK ****
<Ynnaf> carte 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], pÃ©riphÃ©rique 0: ALC887-VD Analog [ALC887-VD Analog]
<Ynnaf>   Sous-pÃ©riphÃ©riques: 0/1
<Ynnaf>   Sous-pÃ©riphÃ©rique #0: subdevice #0
<Ynnaf> carte 1: Generic [HD-Audio Generic], pÃ©riphÃ©rique 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
<Ynnaf>   Sous-pÃ©riphÃ©riques: 1/1
<Ynnaf>   Sous-pÃ©riphÃ©rique #0: subdevice #0
<Ynnaf> ho
<Ynnaf> well ho do I chose ?
<Ynnaf> *how
<DarkPlayer> are you using hdmi for playback?
<Ynnaf> I'm pretty sure not, but I'll check for knowing what is.
<DarkPlayer> try:
<DarkPlayer> mplayer -tv driver=v4l2:brightness=0:contrast=-7:hue=0:saturation=0:width=720:height=576:device=/dev/video0:norm=PAL-BG:input=2:fps=25.000:alsa:adevice=hw.2:forceaudio:immediatemode=0 -ao alsa:device=hw.0 tv://MPlayer2
<DarkPlayer> Ynnaf: may also be possible that your input source is simply muted
<DarkPlayer> execute:
<DarkPlayer> alsamixer
<DarkPlayer> press F6 and select the correct audio device
<DarkPlayer> then  press F4 to switch to recording
<DarkPlayer> and check the volume of the record devices
<Ynnaf> ho
<Ynnaf> I though it has no importance what card was selected, because it didn't changed anything to move alsamixer values when pulseaudio was there.
<Ynnaf> "this device has no lecture command" it only has in "capture"
<DarkPlayer> then change to record first with F4
<Ynnaf> yup
<DarkPlayer> is the recording device volume not muted and on 100% ?
<Ynnaf> It's on 100
<Ynnaf> muted ?
<Ynnaf> how do I know  ?
<DarkPlayer> is there a big "M" ?
<Ynnaf> nope
<DarkPlayer> okay
<DarkPlayer> go to your playback device
<DarkPlayer> and switch back to playback
<DarkPlayer> check whether there is something muted or volume is set very low
<Ynnaf> shesh. It had to work :/
<Ynnaf> I'll try to register it, tho, we never know ><
<Ynnaf> Mah
<Ynnaf> when I got the saved file
<Ynnaf> there is no audio channel in the video
<Ynnaf> (in fact there is on named "0", and empty
<Ynnaf> The problem is here
<Ynnaf> v4l2: get audio format: 9
<Ynnaf> ==> Found audio stream: 0
<Ynnaf> v4l2: get audio samplerate: 48000
<Ynnaf> v4l2: get audio samplesize: 2
<Ynnaf> v4l2: get audio channels: 2
<DarkPlayer> doesn't look like an error to me
<DarkPlayer> the id of the stream is simply 0
<Ynnaf> the fact it is empty is a problem, right ? x)
<Ynnaf> ho
<Ynnaf> wait
<Ynnaf> his description is empy
<Ynnaf> mmmmmh
<Ynnaf> well
<Ynnaf> Maybe i'll just launch pulse
<Ynnaf> gross.
<Ynnaf> Nothing
<Ynnaf> <Ynnaf> ==> Found audio stream: 0
<Ynnaf> It doesn't mean "I found nothing" ?
<DarkPlayer> well since this is quite offtopic here, you may better ask the guys in #mplayer which have more experience with recording from alsa / v4l devices
<DarkPlayer> i think it is just stream 0
<Ynnaf> I guess so
<DarkPlayer> otherwise it wouldn't have a samplerate
<Ynnaf> Well thanks a lot. I'm maybe not out of this, but still I'll understand a bit better how it work. Even if 3am is a bit hard for me. It takes sooooo much more time than expected  Ã©_Ã¨
<saiarcot895> I'm getting a weird error when building flightgear in my PPA. I have flightgear set to depend on libsimgear-dev, which then depends on the most recent versions of libsimgearcore2.99.0 and libsimgearscene2.99.0. However, apt is refusing to install libsimgear-dev because libsimgearscene2.99.0 is not going to be installed. I don't think it's a dependency problem because I have the same three packages installed on my system. Any help?
<voldyman> hey guys, can i get all the bugs marked fix released for a specific project from launchpad api using curl ? (i plan to use go lang to write a bot)
<dobey> voldyman: searchBugs(status='Fix Released') on the project object; it's in the API docs
<voldyman> dobey: but i can't use launchpadlib since the bot will be in go-lang
<dobey> voldyman: yes, you will have to follow the API docs to create something in go.
<voldyman> dobey: ok, i'll try to cook something up
<mwhudson> voldyman: have you seen https://launchpad.net/lpad ?
<voldyman> mwhudson: nope, thats exactly what i needed. thanks a lot.
<dobey> oh yeah. there is that. i forgot gustavo wrote a thing for go already
<dch> hey, Iâm trying to push my first bzr (branch? project?) to lp. And Iâm completely lost, what does `No such product series` actually mean?
<dobey> where are you trying to push to?
<dch> Iâm sure I need to set up some branch or sth remotely first.
<dobey> you can just push any bzr branch to lp:~username/+junk/branchname
<dch> dobey: some details first. end goal is a daily build off the master branch of couchdb, which is in git.
<dch> Iâve set up a mirror which pulls git -> bzr (yay) https://code.launchpad.net/~couchdb/couchdb/master
<dobey> couchdb git probably can't be imported to launchpad currently
<dch> dobey:  it does work :-)
<dch> my next task is to push the package branch that contains only the /debian/ bits needed.
<dch> Iâve tried a bunch of variations on `bzr push lp: couchdb/couchdb/packaging` with that above error.
<dobey> then push it to lp:~couchdb/couchdb/packaging-dailies
<dobey> if you want ~couchdb to owne it
<dch> dobey: the idea I had was to separate out changes required for the packaging, from the original source. The last patches I had to review were thousands of lines of a single diff, if thereâs a better way to achieve keeping upstream source & .deb packaging info separate please tell me.
<dch> dobey: hmm them I got myself confused.
<dch> https://code.launchpad.net/couchdb/ seems not to have any branches.
<dobey> persons and teams begin with  tildes
<dobey> dch: i see 4
<dobey> and you didn't need to set up a different master
<dobey> oh, the existing import was from svn.apache.org
<dch> dobey: I see 4 branches but theyâre not under âcouchdbâ they are elsewhere. I wanted to make sure we have one that is owned/managed by the same group, if that makes sense.
<dch> dobey: yup, thats the reason for a new one.
<dobey> dch: yes they are under couchdb. you're confusing the  project name with the team name
<dch> ok, so Iâll try pushing to ~couchdb, get this working as you suggested dobey - tyvm!
<dch> I have a bzr-builder working partially already so Iâm feeling pretty chirpy atm :D
<dch> final question, is it possible to get lp to run a standard `bootstrap && ./configure âstuff && make â¦ ` or is that not the right way to do things?
<dch> Iâm a bit lost how I should go from git (or a release tarball) to a nice tidy package.
<dobey> how something is built in a debian package, is defined by debian/rules
<dobey> dch: look at the existing couchdb packaging data that's in ubuntu, and adapt that to work for git, where needed
<dch> dobey: ok, Iâve been tidying stuff up in there but it doesnât all fit together mentally for me yet. Now I have the branch pushed I can try testing stuff and maybe enlightenment will strike.
<dch> thanks for your help, I have the branch pushed so life should be easier now!
<dobey> please don't do test builds of couchdb live on launchpad. it will eat up the resources pretty badly
<dch> dobey: Iâm doing them on a personal server, with bzr-builder. What actually triggers the build then?
<dobey> get it bilding locally first with bzr dailydeb and pbuilder or sbuild.
<dch> in lp, I mean.
<dobey> oh, i thought you were setting up an lp recipe for daily bilds
<dobey> builds
<dch> dobey: thatâs the end goal, yup. But first I want to have the git source (done), a separate /debian/ patches repo (under way) so that future changes are not a weekend reading nightmare.
#launchpad 2014-11-24
<sergio-br2> HI
<sergio-br2> I have some package superseded in one ppa
<sergio-br2> but I deleted the newer version (which has build errors)
<sergio-br2> and I though that superseded was going to be 'published' again
<wgrant> Not automatically, no.
<wgrant> Otherwise it'd be very difficult to actually delete a package.
<wgrant> You need to copy the old package back in.
<wgrant> So visit the "Copy packages" page, filter for Superseded to find the old version, and ensure that you select the option to copy the binaries too.
<sergio-br2> copy packages page?
<sergio-br2> ah
<sergio-br2> saw it
<sergio-br2> cool
<sergio-br2> thanks wgrant
<FailBit> Hello again.
<FailBit> can I use the launchpadlib api to get information about LP questions?
#launchpad 2014-11-25
<FailBit> anyone?
<wgrant> FailBit: https://api.launchpad.net/devel.html documents the API.
<FailBit> wgrant: that's for the devel version of launchpadlib?
<FailBit> how do I get that on 14.04?
<wgrant> FailBit: devel is the version of the API. It doesn't require a new launchpadlib version.
<wgrant> launchpadlib automatically downloads the API definition for the version that you specify.
<FailBit> ok.
<FailBit> wgrant: what am I doing wrong? http://paste.ubuntu.com/9224428/
<wgrant> FailBit: You're missing version='devel' in the login_anonymously line, I suspect.
<FailBit> wgrant: ah thanks
<FailBit> wgrant: do launchpad merge proposals have unique ids?
<wgrant> FailBit: The URL contains an ID, but it's not a supported interface for querying them.
<FailBit> ok, just wanted to know.
<Forage> I'm trying to add a new upstream release of a package to my ppa, but unlike the previous release, this one fails to be build on launchpad: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/191177857/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.lirc_0.9.2pre1-0ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Forage> it's having problems with a dependency: relocation R_X86_64_32S against `.bss' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<Forage> how does one fix this on launchpad?
<Forage> this happens with just the amd64 build, it passes on i386 (but fails there later on for different reasons)
<wgrant> Forage: There's nothing special about Launchpad in this case. You can reproduce it locally by building in a utopic amd64 pbuilder or sbuild chroot.
#launchpad 2014-11-26
<FailBit> hello
<FailBit> anyone here right now?
<FailBit> I need a question answered relavitely quickly
<FailBit> I'll ask it right now, in case anyone /is/ here
<FailBit> does your bot use a regex for launchpad bug urls? if so, what is it?
<FailBit> !foo
<ubot5> foo is [baz|bar|wibble]
<FailBit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1378843
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1378843 in Inkscape "Build fails with cmake/ninja and poppler-0.26.4" [Low,Fix committed]
<FailBit> !bar
<ubot5> baz
<FailBit> !baz
<ubot5> foo is [baz|bar|wibble]
<hieupm37> hi, can I push a deb file to my PPA
<hieupm37> I've subscribed commercial
<cjwatson> FailBit: The bot isn't operated by us, but perhaps https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots will help.  I think the latter has the code.
<cjwatson> hieupm37: No, nobody can push binary packages directly.  I believe that a Launchpad commercial subscription will let you upload packages without full source code (though my word isn't gospel here), but from a technical standpoint you still need to construct a "source" package that builds in the usual way and constructs the right .debs, even if it just contains pre-built binaries that it copies into place.
<FailBit> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bots/ubuntu-bots/devel/view/head:/Bugtracker/plugin.py#L34
<FailBit> I lol'd
<LocutusOfBorg1> FailBit, I think you mean "I fukin lol'd" :D
<cjwatson> Please take this elsewhere.
<FailBit> I'll just drop() it.
 * gsilvapt is now away, auto-away after 20 minutes (log\on pager\on)
 * gsilvapt is back after 1h 4m 48s
<cjwatson> gsilvapt: Please could you turn off the public-away feature in your IRC client?
<gsilvapt> yes, sorry
<cjwatson> Thanks.
<gsilvapt> that should do it
<ScottK> Heya ChrisP1948.
<ScottK> Is there anyone around that can help ChrisP1948 with getting his gpg key into LP.  We've been working on clamav packaging and it'd be really nice for him to be able to upload to the clamav PPA.
<ScottK> Problem is not getting the confirmation email (after several tries)
<wgrant> What's the address that the email is not getting to?
<ChrisP1948> cpollock@embarqmail.com
<wgrant> When did you last try?
<ChrisP1948> about 40 mins ago, 15:45 CT
<ScottK> US CT is -0600
<ScottK> Thanks wgrant.
<wgrant> ChrisP1948: Which fingerprint?
<ChrisP1948> I'm using this one - 441D 71BC 727D 0B1C EC1F  6B39 E372 A7DA 98E6 705C
<wgrant> ChrisP1948: I can't see any form posts to your OpenPGP keys page. Are you sure you actually submitted the form?
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/~cpollock/+editpgpkeys should show the fingerprint unders "Keys pending validation".
<ChrisP1948> logged back in and resubmitted the key. Another window says a message was sent to me and also shows key pending validation. I'll see what happens next
<ChrisP1948> All right wgrant, good to go. Thank you very much, greatly appreciated
<wgrant> No worries.
#launchpad 2014-11-27
<hieupm37> cjwatson: do you mean that I can create a Makefile that creates .deb from my pre-build binaries? Pre-build binaries are the source and I can upload to launchpad this source and Makefile.
<elacheche> Hey guys!! I created a branch under lp:~user/+junk/branche_name Is it possible to add a blue print (under +junk) to that branch or I must create a project to do it?
<mgz> you need a project for blueprints
<elacheche> ok, thx mgz, I'm discovering LP and Bazaar..
<mgz> elacheche: if you want somewhere to play around without harming anything, you can use https://staging.launchpad.net/
<mgz> that has a copy of the data, but you can create and change things without affecting the real site
<elacheche> Great mgz :) :D
<elacheche> thx
<wxl> hey folks i'm trying to authenticate with the api and i get ssl.SSLError: [Errno 185090050] _ssl.c:344: error:0B084002:x509 certificate routines:X509_load_cert_crl_file:sys
<teward> if i have a depwait on a build in a PPA, and upload a newer version of the package being built, will that automatically supersede the current dep-wait'd builds and then build the new version?
<cjwatson> teward: should do yes
<teward> cjwatson: awesome, thanks.
<teward> did Launchpad just explode?
<teward> tried uploading a debdiff to a bug and it failed - says there was a problem connecting
<teward> cjwatson: ^
<cjwatson> teward: doesn't look obviously broken from here, maybe a network glitch of some kind but it's past the end of my day so not investigating now.  try again?
<teward> cjwatson: figured it out - the debdiff was 172MB. o.o
<teward> i've gzipped it and uploaded without incident
<cjwatson> ok
#launchpad 2014-11-28
<mpt> Ding, dong, the breadcrumb is dead!
<mpt> \o/
<davmor2> mpt: man you are evil what the hell did the breadcrumb do to you to deserve to die ;)
<mpt> davmor2, it tried to convey a two-dimensional hierarchy in one dimension
<wgrant> mpt: Not quite dead, but it only appears very occasionally now. And hopefully totally dead.
<wgrant> Also, you're wrong.
<wgrant> It was three-dimensional.
<mpt> Three-dimensional?
<wgrant> Person, product/distro/package, series
<mpt> Oh, I didnât even notice that it was ever included person * the others
<wgrant> It mostly tried to avoid it because that was so awkward.
<wgrant> But basically I tried to clean up the madness by treating series as more of a filter than a key structural object. Which then means the heading part of the page can include the first 0-3 breadcrumbs, eliminating the in-content breadcrumb hierarchy on most common pages.
<wgrant> More suggestions from actual designy people welcome :)
<mpt> Almost like good old Launchpad 2.0
<wgrant> Well, 2.0 still had the breadcrumbs.
<wgrant> It just didn't have a separate header section trying to represent the "primary context"/
<mpt> right
<wgrant> The breadcrumbs had almost exactly the same problem.
<mpt> In 2.0 I included hierarchy up to the most specific point where the facets still applied
<wgrant> Oh, I misremembered that it went deeper.
<wgrant> The header section now includes everything that has multiple facets, except that we treat series as a filter on a facet rather than having several facets themselves. Which makes navigation less confusing, hopefully.
<wgrant> But, more importantly, the facet links now go where the context above them says.
<wgrant> Rather than the "Code" link beneath "Ubuntu" actually going to dpkg in Ubuntu Hoary's branches.
<mpt> Right, but now you have the opposite problem
<wgrant> What's the new problem?
<mpt> which is, for example, that on <https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid> âTranslationsâ goes to a page thatâs mostly about Utopic
<wgrant> Right, switching between facets of a series is no longer directly possible.
<wgrant> But it's also not commonly desirable.
<mpt> Whereas I would reasonably expect it to go to <https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid>
<mpt> (same for Code and Bugs)
<wgrant> Sure, that's the one significant downside of this change.
<wgrant> I couldn't see any solution that wasn't a tradeoff.
<wgrant> And I don't think you could either, given that 2.0 didn't solve it.
<mpt> Sure it did. I included series in the hierarchy. When you navigated down to the series, the facets below applied to the series.
<wgrant> Right, but that goes awry when source packages get involved.
<wgrant> The hierarchy was "Ubuntu > dpkg package" for a DSP, and "Ubuntu > Trusty > dpkg package" for an SP
<wgrant> You need to be able to easily switch to the series-less sourcepackage more than you need to be able to switch between facets for the series.
<mpt> I donât see a problem with âUbuntu > Trustyâ and âUbuntu > dpkg > Trustyâ both existing â¦ but maybe Zope does? :-)
<wgrant> The internal breadcrumb representation changed to that today.
<wgrant> But the facet menu no longer descends into the series.
<wgrant> It's rare that one wants to switch between facets without dropping the series, and it's rare that one navigates to a series before selecting a facet.
<wgrant> (in part because series mostly tend to confuse the hell out of a lot of users)
<wgrant> (also, if you're not coming from 5 years of dealing with 3.0's brokenness, it should be fairly clear that the facet links will take you to Ubuntu's bugs, not Ubuntu Vivid's bugs. A lot of people are just conditioned to them taking you to a totally different place.)
<wgrant> Anyway, it's easy enough to readd the series as a layer between the primary context and the facet links, if it actually proves to be a problem. But leaving series as a non-leaf navigation item introduces complications when dealing with objects that aren't series-scoped.
<wgrant> Particularly when we're about to introduce a very close non-series-scoped sibling to an object that is currently series-scoped.
<mpt> Sure, the consequence of making facets series-specific is that âAnswersâ becomes greyed out on a series
<mpt> but I think thatâs relatively minor compared to, for example, most series Translations pages now being orphans (no links to them)
<mpt> wgrant, what is this non-series-scoped sibling of which you speak?
<wgrant> mpt: Right, the Translations facet of an obsolete series can't currently be navigated to directly.
<ScottK> So https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/<release>/+source/<package>/<version> is now just a redirect to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<package>/<version> right?
<ScottK> wgrant: So this new design removed every reference to the bug number in the page (as far as I can tell).  I routinely use that to copy/paste into changelogs.  I can do it from the URL, but that seems like not the best process flow to support.
<wgrant> ScottK: Ah, so it did, sorry. Will fix.
<ScottK> wgrant: Thanks.
<wgrant> ScottK: As for the redirect, yes, tgat's been in place for a few weeks. The only unique info on the series page was the .changes link, which I added to the other one.
<wgrant> Has that change caused any issues for you? I've heard nothing but positive feedback about it.
<ScottK> There's also build status being iconified versus written out.
<ScottK> I wouldn't say I've had issues, but I like the other page better.
<ScottK> I don't think it's a problem.
<ScottK> The bug number vanishing is a different matter.
<wgrant> yeah, the build formatting isn't ideal, and was the one other thing i almost brought across. i might still.
<wgrant> The bug number thing is something i actually kissed, though.
<wgrant> missed
<wgrant> thanks for the feedback
<ScottK> The icon on the build page isn't a big issue for me since I've been around for long enough to mostly be able to remember them.  Not so great for new people though.
<wgrant> Yeah. It probably makes sense to have a textual status and group them.
<wgrant> The problem with improving those pages before was that we had two pages which showed a couple of dozen pieces of identical information, plus two that were unique to each view, in a totally different way.
<wgrant> With no reason for differentiation.
<wgrant> Now we have just a single page to improve.
<wgrant> ScottK: Bug #1397422
<ubot5> bug 1397422 in Launchpad itself "bug number is no longer available in the body of a bug report" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397422
<ScottK> Thanks.
#launchpad 2014-11-29
<wxl> hey folks looking for a little help with authentication https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-users/msg06709.html
<wgrant> wxl: Which version of launchpadlib are you using, and which distro?
<wgrant> It looks like your system Python doesn't have a working certificate store configured.
<wxl> aw jeez i thought i included that wgrant
<wxl> 1s
<wxl> wgrant: so this is lubuntu 14.04 with launchpadlib 1.10.2+ds-2
<wgrant> wxl: Hm, in that case you should just apt-get install python-launchpadlib
<wgrant> No need to easy_install it.
<wgrant> Oh, maybe you did.
<wgrant> But you have a manually installed httplib2.
<wxl> wgrant: that i did :)
<wgrant> That's the problem there. Your system Python path is polluted with manually installed packages of the wrong version.
<wxl> wgrant: nope. 0.8-2build1 from us.archive.ubuntu.com
<wgrant>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/httplib2-0.9-py2.7.egg/httplib2/__init__.py",
<wgrant> You've got a manually installed 0.9.
<wxl> huh
<wxl> weeeeird
<wxl> well i got launchpad is temporarily unavailable
<wxl> that's a bonus :)
<wgrant> staging's down for about 24 hours each weekend to update its database.
<wxl> yeah 503
<wgrant> Consider using qastaging instead.
<wxl> okie dokie
<wxl> i guess i could use production too
<wxl> i'm not doing anything that writes
<wgrant> Since it's RO, yeah.
<wxl> wgrant: you're my hero :)
<wgrant> Excellent, you just removed the bad httplib2?
<wxl> odd though that confirmed_email_addresses for people i know have confirmed email addresses are 0
<wxl> yepp
<wgrant> Ah, that's a somewhat unfortunate API wart.
<wgrant> A person's preferred address does not currently appear in the confirmed_email_addresses collection.
<wxl> oh jeez
<wgrant> You need to retrieve it explicitly from preferred_email_link
<wxl> ok i guess i'll used preferred
<wxl> someone needs to mention that in the reference docs
<wxl> *ahem* :)
#launchpad 2014-11-30
<ScottK> wgrant: Thanks for the quick turnaround on the bug number thing.
<wgrant> np
#launchpad 2015-11-23
<Laney> git> can I make an MP from one "personal" branch to another?
<wgrant> Laney: No, you need a project (or a package)
<Laney> nod
<wgrant> It would possibly make sense to allow cross-ref MPs within a personal repository, but it's an unobvious special case and it's not clear exactly how it would work.
<Laney> oh, I said branch, I meant repository
<cjwatson> wgrant: I'm not sure I ever understood the logic behind restricting MPs to only project and package branches in the first place, unless it's an attempt at social engineering to discourage people from using personal branches for things that should be more organised.
<wgrant> A combination of that and preventing people from doing stupid things that make no sense.
<wgrant> People have a bad habit of doing stupid things that make no sense unless you prevent that.
<wgrant> Can't really check for common ancestry, so there's no way to prevent anything from being proposed into anything else without the target restriction.
<cjwatson> As if that actually prevents it for projects/packages, but sure.
<wgrant> It also complicates queries around +activereviews etc.
<wgrant> There are no really compelling reasons for it, but we should probably just make project creation less gratuitously difficult.
#launchpad 2015-11-24
<morphis> can someone help me with https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-054-1-build/39/console ?
<morphis> basically the generated source package isn't uploaded as it seems as the build is warning with:
<morphis> Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
<morphis> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
<morphis> rejected by the upload queue management software.
<morphis> this one is a bit different from what we're normally doing with citrain (release canonical upstream to the archive) as I am trying to also use it for a package which we're not upstream for
<morphis> where https://code.launchpad.net/~morphis/bluez/vivid-5.36-upgrade/+merge/278302 is the source for
<morphis> things are already adjusted so that citrain doesn't change the version number or the changelog
<morphis> however this work when building the first time in a silo but when updating the MP (with also bumping the version of the package) we end up with the warning above and nothing gets to the silo
<wgrant> morphis: Is the orig.tar.gz identical to the previous upload?
<morphis> wgrant: it should
<morphis> wgrant: see https://code.launchpad.net/~morphis/bluez/vivid-5.36-upgrade/+merge/278302
<morphis> rev 10 is what I added for the rebuild
<morphis> rev 9 is what was published to the silo before
<wgrant> 2015-11-23 19:00:16 INFO        File bluez_5.36.orig.tar.gz already exists in Landing PPA 054, but uploaded version has different contents. See more information about this error in https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors.
<wgrant> The orig tarball differs from the original upload.
<morphis> hm, then the only reason for this can be that the orig tarball is constructed from the bzr tree
<wgrant> Is it constructed in a deterministic way?
<morphis> it should
<morphis> bzr bd -S afaik
<wgrant> Perhaps someone messed with the tags in the branch.
<morphis> "Using the current branch without the 'debian' directory to create the tarball"
<morphis> wgrant: there are only two tags and those are already in trunk
<morphis> wgrant: so how does the system check if two tarballs are the same? checksum?
<wgrant> There is no pristine-tar metadata in the branch AFAICS.
<wgrant> Yes, the files must be bitwise equal.
<morphis> and that wont work when building the orig tarball with --split
<xnox> is it possible to "subscribe" all the "build" mail? that is to receive all failed to build notifications from launchpad, for ubuntu, for xenial for example?
<xnox> (or just all of them, and then i shall filter them)
<cjwatson> xnox: I think primary archive failures all go to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/launchpad-buildd-admins - I've never been bored enough to subscribe to find out (no archives for hopefully obvious reasons)
<xnox> let's see how much spam that is.
<cjwatson> xnox: There should be X-Launchpad-Build-Arch headers
 * xnox ponders if i have to be in https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-buildd-admins/+members to be allowed to lurk that list
<cjwatson> xnox: No
<cjwatson> At least you shouldn't
<xnox> good =) i don't want to be there.
<cjwatson> That's a superpowered team anyway ...
<cjwatson> Hm, well, being on the list might let you do evil team-claiming games
<xnox> =/ meh, not interested
<cjwatson> I wonder what a more sensible build mail subscription model would look like.
<xnox> RSS
<xnox> =)
 * xnox is weird
<cjwatson> A feed wouldn't be entirely impossible, though it would take some thought.
 * xnox is half expecting for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all to be a feedable location.
<jgdx> !isitdownforanyoneelse
<ubot5> jgdx: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<dobey> no
<jgdx> right, it's just one url
<jgdx> heh
<Laney> launchpadlibrarian is
<Laney> at least for me
<cjwatson> yeah, I just noticed, reporting
<cjwatson> sorry for slow response, I was in the middle of being perplexed debugging something else that turned out to be the same thing
<cjwatson> it was an upgrade that took out dhcp that took out swift, apparently
<Laney> np, I saw the chat about that and assumed it would be fixing itself shortly
<Laney> there it is
<Laney> sort of
<cjwatson> jgdx,Laney: should be back now
<jgdx> cjwatson, thanks
<Laney> cjwatson: yeah, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lttngtop/0.3-3 happened, cheers
<jgdx> cjwatson, btw, go get against launchpad fails with an insecure warning. is this known?
<cjwatson> jgdx: not to me
<jgdx> cjwatson, okay, I was wondering what I should file against
<cjwatson> jgdx: feel free to start by filing against Launchpad itself, we can reassign if need be
<jgdx> cjwatson, thx
<cjwatson> go get at least used to have weird special cases for LP
<jgdx> hm, maybe that broke
<cjwatson> there was work on removing that, I don't know if it was completed
<Rovident> How do I change a launchpad 'team' to a project ?
<Rovident> hello ?
<dobey> you can't
<dobey> you just register a team
<Rovident> dobey , ok so how do I register a project ?
<dobey> go to the launchpad home page and click on "Register a new project"
<dobey> it is in fact the link immediately preceding "Register a team"
<Rovident> dobey, OK, done that - I registering a bug.
<clivejo> hi, Im trying to upload to LaunchPad, but everytime the upload hangs on - Uploading calligra_2.9.8.orig.tar.xz: 190104k/190105k, why is this?
<cjwatson> clivejo: Not clear from logs; try uploading over SFTP rather than FTP?  (method = sftp, login = <your LP user name>)
<clivejo> is the package too big?
<clivejo> it seems to be only this one package and its driving me crazy
<cjwatson> clivejo: It's not too big for us, but perhaps the size causes you to trigger some firewall state tracking bug along the route between you and Launchpad (speculating, but it's the sort of thing that could result in this symptom)
<cjwatson> clivejo: I suggest SFTP because it's less likely to be fiddled with in ways that might break
<clivejo> I dont seem to have a dput.cf
<cjwatson> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<cjwatson> you can create ~/.dput.cf if it doesn't exist
#launchpad 2015-11-25
<hanno> Hello. I have a few PPA related questions. Is this the right place?
<xnox> depends on the question
<hanno> My PPA is filling up, 22% use of 2GB: https://launchpad.net/~hzulla/+archive/ubuntu/sonic-pi/+packages
<hanno> However, I cannot remove obsolete packages.
<hanno> The package deletion only allows me to choose the current versions of the packages, not the outdated ones.
<maxb> No, that's not the case, you just have to change one of the filter options
<xnox> and deletion is not instant.
<xnox> it's a cronned type of thing.
<hanno> I did change the filter option.
<xnox> hanno, try https://launchpad.net/~hzulla/+archive/ubuntu/sonic-pi/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=
<xnox> the drop down to "Any status" rather than just published
<hanno> Yes. Now if I click "delete packages" as the admin, the superseded packages aren't listed and thus cannot be deleted.
<hanno> But maybe I just have to wait.
<hanno> ...for the cron to kick in.
<xnox> hanno, can you filter by status again, in the delete packages section?
<xnox> url should end in +delete-packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter= e.g.
<xnox> https://launchpad.net/~hzulla/+archive/ubuntu/sonic-pi/+delete-packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter=
<xnox> if it's not listed there, it's scheduled to be deleted.
<hanno> https://launchpad.net/~hzulla/+archive/ubuntu/sonic-pi/+delete-packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=superseded&field.series_filter= comes up empty.
<hanno> So I'll wait for deletion.
<xnox> cool.
<cjwatson> Right, deleted packages are garbage-collected daily.  If you're only at 22% then you don't need to worry.
<hanno> Thanks.
<hanno> Is there a PPA-like service to build .deb for Debian?
<hanno> I'd like to test these packages in my PPA on vanilla Debian, too.
<hanno> Also, same for Raspbian.
<cjwatson> Not operated by us, I'm afraid.
<cjwatson> I don't know of one, which isn't to say it doesn't exist.
<hanno> Another PPA question. I have a source tarball with valid debian/ rules. But I have to tell the specific name of the distribution (wily/vivid/trusty) in the changelog and cannot use one .changes file for all three?
<cjwatson> hanno: If the exact same binaries will work on all three, then you can just upload to the oldest (trusty) and then copy the package with binaries forward to vivid and wily once everything's built
<cjwatson> hanno: If that condition does not hold, then you're going to need different version numbers for each set of binaries, so the source package needs to differ anyway
<cjwatson> (even if only in the first line of the changelog)
<hanno> I don't know if the same binary works. But the same source package and build instructions work on all three.
<cjwatson> Well, find out if the same binary works.
<cjwatson> If your dependencies aren't too fast-moving then it may well.
<cjwatson> Let's say your binary package is called "foo" and is version 1.0-1, built for amd64.  That will land in pool/main/f/foo/foo_1.0-1_amd64.deb in the published archive tree.  Only one version of that file can exist in a given archive - attempts to build it twice with the same package name, version, and architecture would result in a file name clash, so Launchpad forbids that.
<cjwatson> So *if* you need to build it multiple times, it needs a distinct version number.
<cjwatson> Otherwise, the target series in the changelog only specifies where it's initially uploaded to, and you can copy it around elsewhere (as long as it's either to a different archive, or you include binaries in the copy).
<dobey> i've taken to just setting up recipe builds off trunk when i can, since a) they're automated b) ~14.04.1 ~12.04.1 etc get appended to version automatically c) always have latest version of whatever
<hanno> Thanks.
<hanno> Ok, so now I have a collection of patches for my .deb, let's call them 01 to 05. For i386 and amd64, I need all five of them. But for RPi, I only need the first four and not the fifth.
<hanno> Can I specify that in some way or do I need to maintain two different versions of the debian/ directory?
<dobey> patches should generally be applicable regarldess of the arch it is building on
<cjwatson> hanno: While it's possible to do conditional patch application, it's a pain and makes it harder to use good patch management tools.  I would very very very strongly recommend making the patches themselves have conditional behaviour if for some reason 01-04 actually break RPi.
<dobey> a different set of patches is a different source
<cjwatson> hanno: Take it from one who has been there and done that.
<dobey> two
<dobey> :)
<hanno> The source is for an RPi program. Patch 05 removes RPi specific behaviour.
<cjwatson> Er, right, I read your comment backwards, but basically the same statement holds.
<cjwatson> Make patch 05 detect the platform instead.
<dobey> Launchpad has no notion of what is and isn't an RPi though. armhf packages are just armhf packages
<hanno> I'll see how I can do that.
<dobey> best would be to just get the changes upstream
<dobey> and RPi specific stuff should be runtime detected or something
<hanno> thanks everyone.
<retrojeff> I have a question about PPA's and ubuntu
<retrojeff> so I just upgraded from 14.04 trusty to 16.04
<retrojeff> is there a way to change all my PPA up to 16.04 quickly
<retrojeff> I tried using sed to replace trusty with xenial
<teward> retrojeff: 'change all my PPA' how?
<retrojeff> now over 1/2 my PPA are 404
<teward> retrojeff: all the PPAs you use need to support Xenial for it to reliably work, but you need #ubuntu+1, not here
<cjwatson> Right, this is up to the PPA owners, you can't do it without their help.
<teward> at least, for changing everything on your Xenial system to update
<retrojeff> that channel is dead as a doornob
<teward> retrojeff: well, you have two problems:
<teward> (1) not every PPA supports Xenial, so
<teward> (2a) the PPA owners need to update their PPAs to support Xenial, or
<teward> (2b) you have to remove those PPAs from your repository list
<cjwatson> Or you can continue to use the trusty packages.
<teward> ^ that
<retrojeff> can I force the non working PPA back to an earlier working one
<teward> with potentially mixed results.
<cjwatson> If they still work, which they may well do.
<teward> right
<cjwatson> You can replace "xenial" with "trusty" again for the ones that don't support xenial.
<cjwatson> Or try wily or vivid, perhaps.
<teward> retrojeff: edit the individual sources.list or sources.list.d files' entries as cjwatson just said
<teward> though you may wish to NOT use Xenial just yet since it's still in development
<teward> (if you care about stability, anyways)
<retrojeff> is there a bash script that can step through all the PPA and check for Xenial and if not found set it to trusty
<teward> probably a sed script, but it won't discern between ppas that work and those that don't
<teward> s/sed script/sed command/
<retrojeff> yes
<retrojeff> I would need to check for a Xenial folder on the website
<teward> retrojeff: that should be asked in #ubuntu+1 though i bet there's answers on the net for it xD
<retrojeff> and if its missing report back false
<dobey> perl -p -i -e "s/xenial/trusty/" foo.list
<teward> thank you dobey
<teward> retrojeff: erm, that's a lot more work
<teward> i'd either edit them all, or manually edit the ones that're 404ing
<cjwatson> After an "apt-get update" with partial failures, you can look in /var/lib/apt/lists/
<teward> ^ that
 * teward goes away to poke the nginx packages in his PPA 'cause he thinks they froze up
<cjwatson> It'll have ppa.launchpad.net_blah files, and you can compare against those
<retrojeff> ty teward
<teward> are the PPA uploaders working?  i have 3 out of 6 recent uploads that've been sitting as 'waiting to publish' for a while with that green gear icon
<teward> just sitting there
<cjwatson> teward: seems to be happily chugging away, would be easier with an example
<cjwatson> teward: but I just noticed nginx in the log tail
<teward> cjwatson: yeah that just pushed in
<teward> i blame either my end caching data
<teward> or lag
<teward> or a combination therein
<teward> cjwatson: thanks for checking it though :)
<teward> now that it built i can push it to the MASTER PPA
<teward> yay resource-consuming data :P
<teward> s/data/data processes/
<teward> and i said 6 uploads earlier, meant 5, stupid keyboard
<cjwatson> teward: The PPA publisher cycles somewhere around every 15 minutes, depending on load; it just has a lot to do
<teward> makes sense
<teward> :)
<teward> although i discovered something nice about the PPAs...
<cjwatson> (And isn't ideally efficiently written - needs to be converted to a diskless model, in our copious free time)
<teward> they're not afflicted by the libuuid1 bug that afflicts my sbuild schroots
<wxl> hey folks. there's no such thing as private branches on lp is there?
<sergio-br2> hi
<sergio-br2> g++-4.9 : Depends: gcc-4.9-base (= 4.9.3-5ubuntu1~14.04) but 4.9-20140406-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
<sergio-br2> .
<sergio-br2> from here:  https://launchpadlibrarian.net/227630573/buildlog.txt.gz
<sergio-br2> from where this 4.9-20140406-0ubuntu1 come from?
<sergio-br2> it's not in the repo
<sergio-br2> I'm using this ppa as a dependence: https://code.launchpad.net/~dolphin-emu/+archive/ubuntu/gcc-for-dolphin/+packages
<sergio-br2> uh, 4.9-20140406-0ubuntu1 is higher than 4.9.3-5ubuntu1~14.04 ?
<tumbleweed> dpkg --compare-versions is your friend
<sarnold> the error you pasted here included an = instead of the >= or > choices..
<sergio-br2> i don't understand, 4.9-20140406-0ubuntu1 is less than 4.9.3-5ubuntu1~14.04, why it's waiting for the deps?
<sergio-br2> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dolphin-emu/dolphin-emu/debian-master-trusty/view/head:/control
<sergio-br2> do I need to put gcc-4.9 (>= 4.9.3) in the control?
<sarnold> sergio-br2: looks like that version may be available from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-toolchain-r/+archive/ubuntu/test but you'd have to ask the gcc-for-dophin owner why that specific version of gcc, and if there's something about the version inthe ppa that's different from the ubuntu-toolchain ppa..
<sergio-br2> gcc-for-dolphin is mine
<sarnold> oh :)
<sergio-br2> I pick that package from the ubuntu-toolchain
<sergio-br2> I pick from ppa:ubuntu-toolchain-r/test
<sergio-br2> I just re-built it
<sergio-br2> I need this version 4.9 because dolphin don't compile with 4.8
<sergio-br2> seems launchpad is being a little dumb with this dep
<sarnold> sergio-br2: this is a guess; try replacing gcc-4.9 and g++-4.9  in your control file with gcc-4.9 (= 4.9.3-5ubuntu1~14.04) and g++-4.9 (= 4.9.3-5ubuntu1~14.04)
<sergio-br2> maybe  gcc-4.9 (>= 4.9.3)  ?
<sarnold> might also work
<sergio-br2> let's see
#launchpad 2015-11-26
<sergio-br2> ugh, didn't work
<sergio-br2> why it was working with gcc 4.9.2, but not with 4.9.3
<sergio-br2> 4.9.2-0ubuntu1~14.04
<sergio-br2> damn launchpad
<sergio-br2> damn apt
<sergio-br2> I just installed the gcc for dolphin ppa, with 4.9.3
<sergio-br2> and i can't install the packages
<sergio-br2> it asks to remove a bunch of packages
<sergio-br2> or conflicts
<sergio-br2> it's just a bug fix update 4.9.2 --> 4.9.3
<sergio-br2> never saw something like that
<sergio-br2> why that didn't happened with 4.9.2, from the same toolchain ppa?
<sergio-br2> ok, I just deleted the 4.9.3
<sergio-br2> it's possible to put the 4.9.2 again in the ppa right? (i deleted it too...)
<sergio-br2> "You should not attempt to use deletion requests to re-upload the same source version with different contents, as this is still prevented even after the content has been deleted. "
<sergio-br2> oh man
<sergio-br2> I really need to re-upload gcc 4.9.2 in that ppa
<sarnold> even though the archive is very picky about that, _copying_ from one ppa to another ought to work
<sergio-br2> can someone help me here?
<sarnold> it's building that it refuses to do
<sergio-br2> humm
<sergio-br2> I hope it works
<sergio-br2> launchpad should be less pick about this
<sergio-br2> yay seems it worke
<sergio-br2> thanks sarnold
<sarnold> the 4.9.2 copies?
<sarnold> is your build underway? o rjust the copy worked? heh
<sergio-br2> yeah, it copied
<sergio-br2> it's pending yet
<morphis> I am currently trying to register a launchpad project with the name 'wds', however I always get from launchpad "wds is already used by another project"
<morphis> I've searched for a project with the name 'wds' on launchpad but couldn't find one
<morphis> even the url https://launchpad.net/wds is not used by anything
<morphis> there is also no source package with that name either in debian or ubuntu
<morphis> anyone has an idea what else could it be?
<cjwatson> wxl: Launchpad has private branches, but it's a paid commercial feature.
<cjwatson> morphis: It's an old inactive project.  File a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad explaining the situation and we'll see what we can do.
<cjwatson> morphis: (i.e. it is used, you just can't see it)
<morphis> cjwatson: thanks, will do that
<Odd_Bloke> So I'm trying to create OAuth configuration to put on a Jenkins system, but passing consumer_name to Launchpad.login_with doesn't seem to stop it using "System-wide: Ubuntu (<my local hostname>)" as the consumer.
<Odd_Bloke> I also don't want to run it on the system in question, because we'll use the same credentials across multiple slaves, and having a specific hostname there will probably lead to confusion.
<Odd_Bloke> Hmm, looking at the launchpadlib code, I don't have much choice in the matter.
<Odd_Bloke> Unless I want to delve in to the API more than I want to.
<cjwatson> It has to be a subclass of lazr.restfulclient.authorize.oauth.Consumer, I believe, not just a string.
<cjwatson> Er, an instance of, I mean.
<cjwatson> Consumer("Your consumer name", application_name="Your application name") should do; you can leave out application_name if it's fine for it to be the same as the consumer name.
<cjwatson> (application_name goes in User-Agent)
<cjwatson> I don't know the OAuth stuff very well, but this doesn't seem to be very much delving into the API.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Aha: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lazr-developers/launchpadlib/trunk/view/head:/src/launchpadlib/credentials.py#L615
<Odd_Bloke> So I'll just do a system-wide integration on one of the slaves and live with the potential confusion.
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: Ah, true, you'd need to pass an authorization_engine, which gets a bit more complicated.
 * xnox recalls there were two types of tokens "system-wide" and "ad-hoc" one. With one type, one gets to set time limits, with the other one access permissions (e.g. read-only, write, write-private, etc.)
<xnox> and it did depend on the magic consumer name.
 * xnox is sure i have used straight oauthlib before to get both types of launchpad tokens, bypassing launchpadlib. (when i was trying to write a minimal wadlwalker in python3, instead of porting launchpadlib to python3)
<cjwatson> Probably a bit much for what Odd_Bloke is trying to do.
<HeOS> Hello! Could you help us with the problem:  we want to get information from LP by the link: https://launchpad.net/fuel/+milestone/8.0. But we see only 'Timeout error' instead data. Why it happens?
<cjwatson> HeOS: Do you have an OOPS ID?
<HeOS> cjwatson, sorry, I closed that tab. :(
<HeOS> I'm going to open it again.
<HeOS> cjwatson, (Error ID: OOPS-a6e1220cbc8ffb650971d176846a10b1)
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-a6e1220cbc8ffb650971d176846a10b1
<cjwatson> Be with you as soon as I can - having difficulty getting oops.canonical.com to answer me just now.
<cjwatson> In the meantime you could perhaps get equivalent information using the API.
<HeOS> cjwatson, yes, I can, but not all members from my team can do it too unfortunately.
<cjwatson> HeOS: I understand.  Unfortunately the OOPS must be absolutely gigantic as I can't get it to load at all here
<cjwatson> Oh wait, it *just* did
<cjwatson> HeOS: I've filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1520281 as a starting point
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1520281 in Launchpad itself "Milestone:+index times out with enormous XRef query" [Critical,Triaged]
<HeOS> cjwatson, great thanks!
<thopiekar> Hey, I started two days ago a recipe build, which takes a long time, and it normally takes 19hours, but stopped after 9hours. For me it is not a problem if you stop my builds. But is there time in a week where armhf is almost idle? Maybe on weekends? I also wonder why you stopped the build, because the quere for armhf was empty most of the time (just interested).
<thopiekar> https://launchpad.net/~thopiekar/+archive/ubuntu/arm/+build/8342848
<HeOS> cjwatson, btw, who should fix that bug?
<cjwatson> HeOS: I'm working on it
<cjwatson> thopiekar: As far as I'm aware, we didn't manually stop it, it must have crashed
<cjwatson> thopiekar: Feel free to retry that
<cjwatson> thopiekar: (That sort of "failed but no build log" is a symptom of the buildd crashing for whatever reason; we can look into it if it's reproducible)
<HeOS> cjwatson, thanks. :)
<cjwatson> thopiekar: virtualised armhf builds are in fact run on x86 builders with qemu-user-static emulation to execute armhf binaries - not very reliable, best we can do just for the moment
<thopiekar> cjwatson: Ok, thanks. I just remember that you already contacted me in the past because of other build of other projects which were wasting your build time. And whenever it is possible and needed I will trigger builds less as possible and tweak them as well :)
<cjwatson> thopiekar: I don't remember that, but it's probably less of a problem nowadays
<thopiekar> cjwatson: I don't know much about arm64. But isn't it possible to run armhf, like i386 on amd64?
<cjwatson> thopiekar: That's the plan, but we're not there yet
<thopiekar> Ok, because I saw some arm64 builders ^^
<thopiekar> cjwatson: Thank you for you feedback :)
<cjwatson> thopiekar: Right, we're working on those but there are some reliability problems in the infrastructure that we still need to investigate, and we'll need a kernel patch and a couple of other things to get their armhf emulation sufficiently accurate for us.
<thopiekar> How many of these builds do you allow me to run at once?
<cjwatson> thopiekar: It's not currently limited.  If we see you managing to take up a very significant fraction of the build farm on your own then we'll probably come and have a word :-)
<cjwatson> https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse applies
<thopiekar> cjwatson: Ok, like we had in the past. Hope you are not counting :D
<cjwatson> thopiekar: It would normally only be if it causes complaints from other users.  Just remember it's a shared resource.
<thopiekar> Of course. I just often don't notice that I take so much resources because many of me work is made by recipes. To be honest I use recipes for 99% of the packages. 1% of the packages are copied because I have missing dependencies :)
<cjwatson> HeOS: I've pushed a fix for review, but it may not be reviewed+landed+deployed until next week, and it's non-trivial enough that I certainly want to get review for it
<HeOS> cjwatson, great work, thanks! We will wait merging of your request and implementing. :)
#launchpad 2015-11-27
<tsimonq2> are there any major restrictions to using the LP logo in a LoCo page?
<cjwatson> tsimonq2: The logo licence is linked from https://help.launchpad.net/Legal
<cjwatson> tsimonq2: But it should be fine if you're using it to refer to Launchpad
<tsimonq2> ok, thanks
#launchpad 2015-11-28
<thopiekar> Hey, I want to package a kernel for my armhf PPA, because the kernel provided by Ubuntu misses many boards including the one I have. Do you have an idea were to start? I tried to make a package with make-kpkg but when rebuilding it with dpkg-buildpackage it runs a make distclean and eats my debian/* folder :/
#launchpad 2016-11-28
<sergio-br2> hey
<sergio-br2> bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.NotBranchError: Not a branch: "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~libretro/libretro/scummvm-libretro_tmp/".
<sergio-br2> that branch does exist...
<sergio-br2> it happened only on trusty
<wgrant> sergio-br2: Is it reproducible?
<sergio-br2> https://code.launchpad.net/~libretro/+recipe/scummvm-libretro-daily
<sergio-br2> hey wgrant
<sergio-br2> I'm trying to build again
#launchpad 2016-11-29
<rbasak> I want to find the last activity on a bug by API. I found the bug_activity collection but don't see a defined ordering. Is there anything that will give me a most-recent-first (such as the bugs collection is defined to do)? Or should I just iterate and sort myself - or do I iterate and not need to sort?
<cjwatson> bug_activity is ordered by ID, which should generally amount to most-recent-last
<rbasak> Thanks. So since I can't slice from the end of a collection, I guess I need to iterate anyway?
<cjwatson> I'd just iterate; the size is usually not prohibitive.
<rbasak> OK, thank you.
<cjwatson> In the common case it will fit in a single batch.
<rbasak> I really like this API BTW. Very nice and straightforward.
<cjwatson> It's rare but nice to get praise for the Launchpad API ;-)
<muktupavels> cjwatson: do you have time to review merge proposal? https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/git-build-recipe/+git/git-build-recipe/+merge/311874
<cjwatson> muktupavels: looks good to me, will land
<muktupavels> thanks!
<cjwatson> uploaded to Debian unstable, will see about getting it onto our builders a bit later
<mitya57> cjwatson, thanks!
<tsimonq2> cjwatson: Ping, I messed up. Kubuntu recently staged a good amount of packages, and we have a script that uses the API to retry the dep waits. So thay ended up triggering 200 some builds before some common deps were ready. Not only did I accidentally flood the queue, but that may be why half of the amd64/i386 builders are disabled, right?
<tsimonq2> s/flood the queue/flood the queue with builds that are known to fail/
<tsimonq2> Is the builder thing my fault? If so, I admit to it.
<cjwatson> tsimonq2: not your fault
<tsimonq2> cjwatson: Ok, so what's the deal then? :)
<cjwatson> tsimonq2: lcy01's openstack infrastructure has been having some difficulty and is down for the time being; the rest is certainly worse than usual, but I don't have time to look today, I can just re-enable and hope
<tsimonq2> cjwatson: Ok fair enough
<mapreri> the job queue for the amd64/i386 builders is huge.  what's going on?  Also all of lcy01-* is "Cleaning"
<nacc> mapreri: i asked this in #ubuntu-relesae as well -- i think lcy01's openstack is having issues (based upon cjwatson's comment ealier) and there was a glibc and perl5 upload (so a lot of stuff is getting rebuilt?)
<mapreri> oh, I should have really read backlog
<mapreri> nacc: there are no rebuilds for those uploads... (though there they do cause a lot of autopkgtests to be triggered :S)
<nacc> mapreri: err, right, sorry!
<nacc> mapreri: i meant queue entries
<mapreri> nacc: what do you mean by "queue entries"?
<nacc> mapreri: as you said, autopkgtests that need to run
<mapreri> ah yeah
<cjwatson> those don't affect LP builders
<cjwatson> they run on the same cloud but there are quotas
<cjwatson> I think the most recent problem was an internal DNS outage that probably took out a bunch of stuff
<cjwatson> so we'll see how it goes as that all clears
<cjwatson> looks better already than when I last looked
<nacc> cjwatson: ah ok, thanks for that info (filing it away)
<mapreri> cjwatson: well, looking at https://launchpad.net/builders seems lcy01 is still not doing anything :)
 * mapreri got used to no build queue at all on launchpad :>  guess it's bad idea to get used to such performance
<cjwatson> yeah, lcy01 is probably still dead but lgw01 is OK on its own once it's caught up
<cjwatson> which it should if the resolver quits exploding
<mapreri> then where would be the fun
<acheronuk> has been trying to catch up all day, and got not very far with it. hopefully overnight it can
#launchpad 2016-11-30
<cjwatson> muktupavels,mitya57: I've prepared a backport and sent a ticket to our sysadmins to deploy it (which is just a PPA copy, so should be reasonably quick)
<jeroen___> Hello
<jeroen___> I have a question about launchpad
<jeroen___> I have a launchpad repository that has a dependency on another repository
<jeroen___> Does that mean that when a user adds my repo to their system, they will be able to install my software, including the dependency packages from the other repo?
<wgrant> jeroen___: No, PPA dependencies declared in Launchpad are only used for builds within Launchpad.
<jeroen___> Oh
<jeroen___> So the user still has to figure out where to get depenency packages?
<wgrant> Unless you document that or copy them into your own PPA.
<jeroen___> OK thanks.
<jeroen___> I have another question too
<jeroen___> So I sign source packages with my gpg key before uploading them to launchpad
<jeroen___> But the user actually installs binary packages
<jeroen___> How is launchpad able to sign those? Launchpad doesn't have my private gpg key, right?
<wgrant> jeroen___: Launchpad generates a key for each user and uses it to sign their PPAs.
<wgrant> That way you can change the key you use to sign uploads, without breaking users that have added your PPA.
<mitya57> cjwatson, thanks! looking forward to seeing it deployed!
<acheronuk> cjwatson: the lcy01 builders are back, and now the publisher is taking forever and a day. it that cause and effect, or just an unrelated issue or slowdown?
<TheOnlyBouncer> Good day, i just added a pub key to my account but when using backportpackage it still tells me there is no secret key available, is there a processing time i need to take in account?
<TheOnlyBouncer> ah i just added a ssh key, i guess i have to add a gpg key as well?
<mbruzek> Hello lauchpaders. I am trying to open a bug on a project and I am getting an "Oops" error.
<mbruzek> Is there something wrong with Launchpad today? Or is the problem me?
<mbruzek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/charms/+source/ibm-platform-lsf-master/+filebug
<mbruzek> I tried this and when I submit
<mbruzek> Oops!                    Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
<mbruzek>  Weâve recorded what happened, and weâll fix it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience.
<mbruzek> (Error ID:           OOPS-d328ebbcdd4c1c18be8c732604af5a42)
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-d328ebbcdd4c1c18be8c732604af5a42
<dobey> TheOnlyBouncer: yes you need to add a gpg key
<TheOnlyBouncer> dobey, ah yeah setting that up now, thanks :)
<dobey> mbruzek: i haven't had any issues with launchpad myself; i have no idea about how the charms stuff is set up though
<mbruzek> dobey: Can you tell me what is wrong with the  ibm-platform-lsf-master project?
<dobey> Package ibm-platform-lsf-master not published in Juju Charms Collection
<dobey> so doesn't exist, not sure why that doesn't give a better error page though
<TheOnlyBouncer> dobey, i set one up, i guess it takes a bit before i can push?
<dobey> TheOnlyBouncer: did you upload it to the ubuntu key server?
<TheOnlyBouncer> yups, added it to my account, got the email, used the token, lists on my page
<dobey> no no, not just on launchpad
<dobey> it needs to be on keyserver.ubuntu.com
<TheOnlyBouncer> yeah i synced with the password manager thingy
<dobey> seahorse has a simple UI for doing it
<dobey> ok
<TheOnlyBouncer> yeah seahorse
<dobey> then yeah, just wait a bit
<TheOnlyBouncer> cool will do
<dobey> no idea how long, but it should eventually work, unless the key is expired or something :)
<TheOnlyBouncer> just generated, will get a cup of coffee and try again
<mbruzek> dobey: I have acces to the Juju Charms Collection is there a way I can add this project?
<dobey> mbruzek: i don't know. like i said, i don't know how the charms stuff works exactly in launchpad
<mbruzek> ok
<dobey> it seems like there isn't a release published for it
<dobey> There is no current release for this source package in Juju Charms Collection.
<dobey> not sure if that matters, though
<TheOnlyBouncer> dobey, after a half hour still problems....
<TheOnlyBouncer> gpg: skipped "TheOnlyJoey@System": secret key not available
<TheOnlyBouncer> but http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?fingerprint=on&op=index&search=0xB7047BE89E651E5AEF9AD1733E382156C6ECD79B
<dobey> that sounds like a local error
<dobey> it can't find your local secret to sign with because you're e-mail isn't set up right
<dobey> so backportpackage is sticking the wrong thing in the changelog
<dobey> so debsign fails
<TheOnlyBouncer> hmm i could not find anything like this in the documentation
<TheOnlyBouncer> so any hints now to fix this?
<teward> TheOnlyBouncer: is the key that it's trying to use the correct GPG key for your system?  Is that key's private key in your keyring?
<dobey> well i presume backportpackage is a script that takes a package and tweaks debian/changelog to create a new source package for an older series
<TheOnlyBouncer> dobey, exactly, its in ubuntu-dev-tools
<dobey> i don't recall what the env vars for setting those bits are
<TheOnlyBouncer> teward, i think so, there is no information regarding that
<teward> TheOnlyBouncer: well, not for backportpackage there isn't.
<teward> if you're having backportpackage run a local build (with -b) you might need to specify -k KEYID
<dobey> man backportpackage has plenty of information on what you need to do
<teward> where KEYID is the key ID for your own private key
<teward> ^ that too
<dobey> set DEBEMAIL
<teward> wow dobey's beating me to things
<teward> TheOnlyBouncer: make sure you set DEBEMAIL to the email address on your key, if it's not set it might cause issues.
<TheOnlyBouncer> ah yeah makes sense, sec
<teward> also make sure that if you don't set DEBEMAIL, you set the signing key that you *do* want to use with the '-k KEYID' option in backportpackage
<teward> wow 503 service unavailable when trying to test backportpackage
<teward> that's new.
<TheOnlyBouncer> it works, thanks!
<teward> from what I can tell that's just a standard call to debsign
<teward> as part of debuild and such, so there's other ways to force keys to use as well.  But meh.
<teward> *goes back to what he was doing*
<cjwatson> acheronuk: Just had a few more suites than normal to publish, I think.  I've been away all day but it seems back to normal.
<acheronuk> cjwatson: yesh, seems to be settling down now. thx :)
<acheronuk> *yes
<TheOnlyBouncer> thanks teward, dobey https://launchpad.net/~theonlyjoey/+archive/ubuntu/openhmd
#launchpad 2016-12-01
<ginggs> Hi, any ideas why the build of blockdiag dies after 5 minutes and doesn't leave a log? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blockdiag/1.5.3+dfsg-1
<cjwatson> ginggs: can't tell retrospectively, will have to watch it
<cjwatson> ginggs: last relevant chunk of log I managed to extract by watching the live build was http://paste.ubuntu.com/23562737/
<cjwatson> ginggs: that "pkill python" looks EXTREMELY suspicious given that reasonable chunks of the build infrastructure are written in Python
<ginggs> cjwatson: ta!
<cjwatson> ginggs: I haven't worked out exactly what's going on but it sure looks like build suicide to me.  I'd suggest making that kill rather more targeted (pidfile or whatever, don't know don't care)
<cjwatson> or maybe even use pkill's facility to match more than just the process name
#launchpad 2016-12-02
<Ionic> is there any way to configure repositories without having to click through the web interface? especially if I want to update a lot of repositories at once
<sarnold> Ionic: what problem are you trying to solve?
<Ionic> for instance I now have to add zesty support to most of my repositories and schedule a rebuild for this platform
<nacc> Ionic: you can probably do it with launchpadlib, but I don't think there's an existing script for it
<nacc> Ionic: I assume you mean PPAs?
<Ionic> yep
<Ionic> oh well, I'll just click through the list
<nacc> Ionic: i'm not sure i undrestand why you need to 'add' zesty?
<nacc> Ionic: can you link to an example ppa?
<Ionic> nacc: to each recipe, I have to check "zesty" in the distribution series section
<nacc> Ionic: oh the recipes
<Ionic> s/to each/for each/
<Ionic> yep
<Ionic> also request a zesty build
<nacc> Ionic: sorry, I was just looking at my PPAs and afaict, they will build for zesty automatically (presujming you upload for zesty), but yeah, the recipes might need manual updates
<Ionic> doing that for 60 recipes is hard work
<nacc> not fun :/
<sarnold> Ionic: if you don't get any advice here soonish, it might be worth asking on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<Ionic> also, launchpad is a bit special in the sense that it takes some time for the javascript stuff to load up fully
<Ionic> if I click too fast, I won't get the distribution series selection "popup" but be forwarded to the recipe editing page
<Ionic> sarnold: it's okay, I'll do it manually like the last two times
<sarnold> Ionic: well, unless something changes now that we're run out of US ASCII letters, we're liable to keep making new releases every six months. There may not be a fix right away but even a fix eventually might be nice :)
<Ionic> I know
<Ionic> regarding letters... what's the next code name after zesty?
<nacc> Ionic: not decided yet, afaik
<Ionic> at least I will be running into problems, I guess
<sarnold> afaik we'll have to wait until april 2017 to find out :)
<Ionic> I heard the Ubuntu guys wanted to wrap over back to A
<sarnold> you're probably not the only one that's built in assumptions about names..
<nacc> heh, hopefully no one was sorting by codename, it was already wrong
<Ionic> and the problem with that is that A < Z
<Ionic> well yeah, it kinda does, the package names include the codename IIRC
<nacc> Warty < Trusty, e.g.
<sarnold> I kind of hope for × and lets just test out how well we've done our utf8.. ;)
<nacc> sarnold: awesome
<nacc> Ionic: what package names?
<Ionic> ah no
<Ionic> they include an "ubuntuWX.YZ" string, so that will work fine
<nacc> those values have nothing to do with the releases
<nacc> Ionic: you mean in the package versions?
<Ionic> yeah
<nacc> right, those don't correlate to releases
<nacc> at least, not necessarily
<nacc> some do, but those are typically the same version is SRU'd to the current devel release and older releases
<wgrant> Ionic: You can set source_package_recipe.distroseries using launchpadlib.
<wgrant> We switched from ~trusty1 to ~ubuntu14.04.1 for recipes before utopic, so order would be preserved post-zesty.
<nacc> wgrant: ah it's a built-in thing in recipes? interesting
<nacc> Ionic: sorry, I didn't realize that
<sarnold> wgrant: hah, clever :)
<wgrant> Yep, since the common case is to build for all supported series.
<nacc> makes sense
<Ionic> wgrant: ha, see, I remember package versions included the codenames
<wgrant> Yeah, we knew we'd have to change to ~ubuntu14.04.1 before zesty+1, but ~utopic would also have sorted after ~ubuntu, so we needed to do it before utopic.
<Ionic> I just took a look at my PPA and all package names seem to be (upgrade-wise) fine now
<Ionic> wgrant: I learned the lesson about including codenames the hard way on Debian for the wheezy -> jessie upgrade...
<wgrant> Heh
<Ionic> since then I'm replacing the codename with the numerical version number
<barry> cjwatson: hi.  do you know if there is documentation on launchpad snap recipes?  i've search snapcraft.io and help.launchpad.net but not found anything.  specifically, i'm trying to figure out if targeting zesty for stage-packages should work or not (it doesn't for ubuntu-image, but i don't know if that's me or launchpad)
<cjwatson> I have been very slack on writing docs for that
<cjwatson> are you perhaps running into https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1626739 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1626739 in Launchpad itself "Snapcraft build failing in Yakkety for unauthenticated stage-packages" [Undecided,New]
<barry> cjwatson: yes i think so but for zesty: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/295856667/buildlog_snap_ubuntu_zesty_amd64_ubuntu-image_BUILDING.txt.gz
<cjwatson> right, same deal
<cjwatson> needs work in LP to send the appropriate set of pubkeys to the builders
<cjwatson> historically we've been able to get away with that and rely on unauth fetches since it's all within our network, but we can't do that for snap
<barry> cjwatson: okay, thanks.  i'll disable our recipe for now (xenial won't work for us) and build manually.  i'll subscribe to the bug to watch for fixes.  any eta on that?
<cjwatson> I have a tight deadline at the moment so it's questionable whether I'll get to it in 2016 :-(
<cjwatson> not sure yet ...
<barry> cjwatson: no worries, i understand ;)  thanks
<nacc> hrm, i think the regex at https://launchpad.net/imagemagick/main/ needs to be updated :(
<nacc> upstream now uses .xz
<nacc> hrm, actually
<nacc> trying to figure out why more recent versions of imagemagick aren't available there (upstream php-imagick's Travis on github uses launchpad's mirror)
<nacc> i wonder if it should be using ftp://ftp.imagemagick.org/pub/ImageMagick/releases/
<nacc> and ImageMagick-*.tar.xz
<smoser> anyone else having issues ?
<smoser> bzr pull lp:cloud-initramfs-tools
<smoser> <hang>
<smoser> err.. branch
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23569174/
<smoser> never mind
#launchpad 2017-11-27
<cjwatson> KeithW: You probably want to create a new recipe for it anyway, so you can leave the old one around
<LyzardKing> Hi! I have a repo on launchpad that autoimports from github. I then added a daily build ppa. I thought that the daily build would occurr only if there was  change to the repo, but it ends up building every day (even without commits) and returns an error
<LyzardKing> Is it possible to acually build only on a new commit?
<cjwatson> I think there's a bug somewhere; it shouldn't have scheduled those builds (and I don't think it's as much as every day)
<cjwatson> I've seen this occasionally on my own recipes but not got round to tracking it down
<LyzardKing> Ok, so an automated import from github (with no new commit on github) doesn't normally trigger a build? That's good then
<cjwatson> "Build daily" is supposed to mean "if the recipe is stale and the last build was more than a day or so ago, then schedule a build", where the staleness bit is set when one of the associated branches/repositories changes and cleared when a daily build is performed
<cjwatson> But something doesn't quite work perfectly there I think
<cjwatson> I don't think it's the import; I've occasionally seen this with code hosted directly on LP
<LyzardKing> Ok...I thought that the import was seen as an override on the lp repo, thus triggering a rebuild (but it was just an idea...)
<cjwatson> No, I think that's just coincidence
<LyzardKing> cjwatson: Great! We'll see tomorrow then of there's a rebuild ;) Thanks!!
#launchpad 2017-11-28
<mvo> hey, I was trying to enable automatic builds on branch changes for https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/+snap/base-18/ - but the checkbox "Automatically build when branch changes" and hit update snap package I get a "Uh oh!" error page with no oops ( Technically, the load balancer took too long to connect to an application server.)
<wgrant> mvo: Is that reproducible?
<wgrant> That suggests the store took too long to reply to LP, but it's working okay for me now.
<mvo> wgrant: for me it is reproducible, I get it everytime (just tried again 10sec ago)
<wgrant> mvo: Very weird. I'll keep digging, but hopefully cjwatson will have some ideas when he arrives.
<wgrant> We're not getting OOPSes, which doesn't make much sense.
<mvo> wgrant: ok, please let me know if I can help in any way. note its not super urgent yet, there is a bit of time before we really need base-18 :) but its puzzling
<wgrant> mvo: I suppose you couldn't be convinced to namespace base-16 and base-18 a bit?
<wgrant> The names are a little unclear today.
<wgrant> When I first saw base-16 in the project list I assumed someone had written a new hexadecimal calculator.
<mvo> wgrant: happy to do that
<mvo> wgrant: haha
<mvo> wgrant: snap-base-18 ?
<wgrant> That'd be much clearer IMO
<mvo> ok
<mvo> I will delete the other names and rename
<wgrant> mvo: I can rename
<mvo> wgrant: great, please do, for both base-16 and base-18
<wgrant> mvo: Done. Thanks.
<mvo> wgrant: and thank you!
<wgrant> mvo: Still digging in logs for your authorisation issue. It's very unusual that we don't get a soft timeout or something.
<wgrant> Well, very unusual that you don't get a very obvious OOPS ID. Even less usual than we don't seem to get an OOPS even internally.
 * mvo nods
<ahasenack> hi there, I need some help in fetching an attachment from LP. It has a funny name (incorrectly encoded I bet) and launchpad gives me a 404
<ahasenack> it's in this comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1730311/comments/3
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1730311 in samba (Ubuntu) "package libnss-winbind:i386 2:4.3.11+dfsg-0ubuntu0.16.04.11 failed to install/upgrade: problÃ¨mes de dÃ©pendances - laissÃ© non configurÃ©" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cjwatson> certainly looks like an encoding issue, but the exception makes no sense
<cjwatson> NotFound: Object: <BugAttachment at 0x7f8d942abc90>, name: u'='
<cjwatson> there's no '=' segment in that URL
<cjwatson> I guess something must be decoding the %3F too early
<wgrant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/983766
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 983766 in Launchpad itself "Error when uploading screenshot incl. a question mark in url" [Critical,Triaged]
<wgrant> Apache being evil
<wgrant> Basically an unavoidable mod_rewrite misfeature IIRC
<wgrant> But it's been half a decade, maybe it's been fixed :)
<wgrant> You can get the raw librarian URLs from the API if you really need access to that attachment
<Nafallo> wgrant: found /msg yet? ;-)
<wgrant> Nafallo: Oops, apparently my window columns overflowed.
<ahasenack> cjwatson: wgrant: that guy is adding attachments to the bug via email :/
<ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1730311/comments/5
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1730311 in samba (Ubuntu) "package libnss-winbind:i386 2:4.3.11+dfsg-0ubuntu0.16.04.11 failed to install/upgrade: problÃ¨mes de dÃ©pendances - laissÃ© non configurÃ©" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<alai> hi, what user should be login to get the subscriptions list?
<alai> it gives this error: lazr.restfulclient.errors.Unauthorized: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized
<alai> (<Person at 0x7f6b8ed76890 canonical-is (Canonical IS)>, 'name', 'launchpad.LimitedView')
<alai> I login using Launchpad.login_anonymously
<alai> and get a list of bugs using launchpad.bugs.searchTasks()
<wgrant> alai: What is the exact statement that is failing?
<alai> and a for loop to get to each subscriptions
<alai> wgrant, for x in task.bug.subscriptions:
<wgrant> alai: Which bug is it?
<alai> let me print out bug number
<alai> wgrant, 1723480
<wgrant> alai: Ah, so this is a bit of weirdness in some permissions. You have to options: either catch the exception and ignore the private subscriber, or log in as any user at all and you'll be able to see limited details (mostly just the name).
<wgrant> This is one of two places where permissions differ between anonymous and arbitrary users.
<alai> ah ok
<alai> so to login using name i can just do Launchpad.login('username') ?
<alai> i read somewhere that says Launchpad.login is deprecated
<alai> i can test it out also
<wgrant> alai: Just replace Launchpad.login_anonymously with Launchpad.login_with. It'll open your browser or give you a URL to authorise.
<alai> wgrant, i need to have it in a script and we run a cron job to pull bugs every hour.  Is there a better option for login ?
<wgrant> alai: I'd probably just catch the Unauthorized and skip the subscription. https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib#Authenticated_access_for_website_integration describes how to use a manual credentials file, though.
<alai> cool yeah i think catching an exception is best here
<alai> wgrant, thanks
#launchpad 2017-11-29
<tsimonq2> wgrant: What's up with half the amd64/i386 builders just "Cleaning"?
<tsimonq2> A quick glance at the history shows that some of them haven't built anything recently and the queue is stacked with stuff
<wgrant> tsimonq2: Hm, the queue only looks about 15 minutes long from here.
<wgrant> But I've sorted those that were stuck.
<tsimonq2> wgrant: Ok, thanks
<vila> Hmm, looks like I broke qastaging.launchpad.net ?
<cjwatson> What were you doing - lots of API requests or something?
<vila> cjwatson: yup, concurrent tests, sorry
<vila> cjwatson: involving git/bzr branches too
<vila> cjwatson: and hi by the way, hope you're doing well ;-)
<cjwatson> Not too bad - you?
<vila> getting back to hacking a bit, with usual results: breaking other people stuff ;-)
<cjwatson> That is the joy of it.
<cjwatson> vila: appserver bounced, back up now
<vila> thanks, trying again with a lower concurrency (8 instead 32)
<cjwatson> qastaging doesn't have anything like the concurrency of the production appservers, indeed
<clivejo_> hi folks, how do I stop being emailed and subbed to LP bugs?
<wgrant> clivejo_: There's a link at the bottom of each email which tells you how you're subscribed and how to unsubscribe.
<clivejo_> so I have to do each thing one by one?
<wgrant> Well, it depends how many things there are.
<wgrant> What exactly are you trying to do?
<clivejo_> have a more manageable inbox
<wgrant> Which particular emails are problematic?
<clivejo_> all bug reports, PPA issues, build issues etc
<wgrant> It's not possible to unsubscribe from PPA-related email for teams you're in.
<wgrant> As for bugs, you'll need to use the footer to work out why you're getting the email.
<clivejo_> I can't see how to do that
<wgrant> You don't have direct subscriptions, so it sounds like your teams' admins have opted you into email.
<wgrant> Check the footer to confirm.
<cjwatson> (though it is possible to filter PPA-related email - there are lots of message headers to help, or if you're using Gmail or similar then you can flip a switch in your preferences to get that stuff added to the message body too)
<clivejo_> I seem to be in certain teams due to it being part of another "root" team
<clivejo_> I have them filtering into different inboxes, but Id prefer to stop getting them in the first place
<clivejo_> only way I can see of doing it on LP is to leave the root team
<wgrant> clivejo_: If it's particular projects that are noisy, you can mute your subscription through the team at https://launchpad.net/PROJECT/+subscriptions, using the "Stop my emails from this subscription" button.
<wgrant> But there's no single button to mute all of one of your team's subscriptions.
<wgrant> We generally encourage team admins not to opt their entire team into bugmail, but some teams do that, so this mechanism is available.
<clivejo_> no problem, thanks for the help.  Might just be simpler to deactivate the account rather than waste time looking for settings
#launchpad 2017-11-30
<benjaoming> Does anybody know why dhpython adds a call to pycompile in postinst when built on Launchpad, but doesn't add it when I build locally (on 16.04) ?
<tsimonq2> cjwatson, wgrant: Is it just me or does lgw01 look a bit stalled with "Cleaning"?
<tsimonq2> Build queue's stacking up fast due to this (bottleneck) and I'd like to get this done tonight. ;)
<wgrant> tsimonq2: The bigger problem is just a lot of private builds that have jumped the queue.
<wgrant> But I'll see what I can do.
<tsimonq2> wgrant: Right, but that wouldn't be a problem if 2/3 of the x86 builders weren't cleaning ;)
<tsimonq2> (that's my point in saying something)
<tsimonq2> Thanks.
<wgrant> tsimonq2: Indeed, thanks for the poke. But sadly it will still be a problem for an hour or so, even with the extra third of builders revived.
<tsimonq2> Alright.
#launchpad 2017-12-01
<oSoMoN> I'm seeing snap builds on LP fail because apt fails to fetch index files (407  Proxy Authentication Required), is this a known issue?
<oSoMoN> e.g. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/347717933/buildlog_snap_ubuntu_xenial_amd64_libreoffice_BUILDING.txt.gz
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: could you provide a link to the build page on launchpad.net, please?
<cjwatson> it's awkward to find from the build log
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, https://code.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+snap/libreoffice
<oSoMoN> the last two builds failed in the same way
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: Right, so your problem is that there's a timeout on how long snap builds are allowed to access the internet for, starting from the start of the build.  You need to arrange to do all your internet access in the pull phase at the start of the build if possible, rather than after spending 2+ hours building libreoffice
<oSoMoN> so I'd need to build the libreoffice part last, to make sure that all the other parts have pulled their stage packages first
<oSoMoN> I'll try that
<cjwatson> I'm a bit confused as to what's going on here, since we explicitly run "snapcraft pull" first
<cjwatson> Is there a plugin that's somehow causing that to do some build work as well?
<cjwatson> Oh, "after: [libreoffice]" in your caches part
<cjwatson> I guess
<cjwatson> I wonder if snapcraft causes that to mean that pull:caches can only happen after build:libreoffice
<cjwatson> You might need to rearrange a bit
<oSoMoN> but I really need that part to run after the libreoffice one, as it requires stage files from libreoffice
<oSoMoN> I introduced that part yesterday, so that explains why the build wasn't failing before
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, any chance the timeout can be increased?
<rbasak> I think a colleague may have had security.ubuntu.com redirected by his ISP, and there's also https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/7dpnwl/requests_to_archiveubuntucom_being_redirected_on/. Which reminds me of bug 716535.
<ubot5> bug 716535 in Launchpad itself "Please support Valid-Until in release files for security.ubuntu.com" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/716535
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: Reluctant, as it's a stopgap against malicious builds
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: Is it possible to move {stage,build}-packages to another part?
<rbasak> Perhaps of increasing importance if it's becoming more common for ISPs to redirect security.ubuntu.com, as they could get end up with a stale cache with no malicious intent.
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, IÂ understand, and I suppose it can't be adjusted on a per-buidl basis?
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: No, it's implemented in the central proxy
<oSoMoN> ok
<cjwatson> We have increased it in the past, but I'm more easily persuadable about that when there's a problematic build where all the network access is near the start ...
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, yes, I can probably move the stage and build packages to another part that does nothing before building libreoffice, and then run the install scriptlet in another part
<cjwatson> rbasak: Acknowledged, but no time at the moment to work out the details of rewriting Release periodically :-(
<oSoMoN> I'll give that a try and will nag you again if it doesn't work
<rbasak> cjwatson: understood. I didn't expect you to have time but I thought I'd at least make you aware :)
<cjwatson> It slightly ties into the work I did a couple of years back on doing *Release*-only republications for hash changes
<cjwatson> Which would definitely make this easier: it's now roughly possible to republish *Release* without having to republish the whole suite
<clivejo_> wgrant: you about?
<clivejo_> how do I unsub from merge requests?
<clivejo_> there are no headers or footers say how to remove
<clivejo_> ah never mind
#launchpad 2017-12-03
<acheronuk> x86 builders look borked
<acheronuk> this is becoming quite the usual weekend thing :/
<tsimonq2> cjwatson, wgrant: ^^^^^^
<acheronuk> tsimonq2: you are a shameless pinger
<tsimonq2> acheronuk: :P
<Jasem[m]> is Launchpad having server build issues?
<tsimonq2> cjwatson, wgrant: Still down to only two builders...
<tsimonq2> (on amd64 and i386)
<Jasem[m]> tsimonq2: yeah it's been like this since morning.. what's going on?
<tsimonq2> Jasem[m]: No clue.
<cjwatson> Lots of cases of ports failing to detach from old instances, by the looks of things.
<cjwatson> Well, on lgw01.
<wgrant> Yeah, we're working on it.
<wgrant> But the queue is mostly drained now.
#launchpad 2018-11-26
<valorie> feel like a dunce, but https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/676380 is mine
#launchpad 2018-11-28
<amdp> hi
<amdp> has launchpad any cost? is there a fee or a paid version?
<cjwatson> It's free provided your project is within the terms of use (https://help.launchpad.net/Legal).
<cjwatson> Some features (essentially the ability to create private objects of various kinds) are restricted, though we don't have a specific scheme for buying those; you'd need to negotiate them with a Canonical support rep.  But most people don't need those.
<amdp> ok thank you
#launchpad 2018-11-29
<bladernr> could someone help me with a recipe issue? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GVqCWHDCNV/
<teward> your version strings are identical, you need to increment your package version string somewhere.
<cjwatson> No they aren't
<teward> oop i lied i'm fast reading cjwatson
<cjwatson> But you're using git hashes in a way that assumes they're comparable as components of version strings
<cjwatson> They are not and you should not do that
<bladernr> I added +{revtime} specifically for that
<cjwatson> If you absolutely must have the commit ID in the version string, put revtime *before* it, not after
<bladernr> cjwatson, AHHHHHHH... the light just clicked on.
<bladernr> OK
<cjwatson> Putting it after is ineffectual
<bladernr> THAT is what I didn't grok
<teward> cjwatson: as i was rereading what you said was what I was going to say next heh
<teward> (I need to STOP fast reading lol)
<cjwatson> (You may need some one-time twiddling to get across the boundary to a fixed version format though)
<bladernr> ack... I read this: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes#Packaging_information and at the end, I just presumed I could put revtime at the end of my git recipe like the bzr recipe just above the last paragraph...
<bladernr> thanks a lot, I'll adjust it and try again.
#launchpad 2018-12-02
<Dominique_Michel> Hi! I have a strange issue with launchpad.net. When I login, I can see Personal details when clicking on My account, but as soon I go to another page, I am not logged in.
<Dominique_Michel> As example, https://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+bug/1485199
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1485199 in gEDA "gschem: window redrawing problem related to right side bar" [Medium,New]
<Dominique_Michel> I wrote the last comment and want to write a new one, but cannot do it anymore.
<Dominique_Michel> At the time I wrote that last comment, I updated my email adress in My account.
<Dominique_Michel> At https://loginhttps://login.launchpad.net/+emails the site tell me my new address is verified.
<cjwatson> You aren't in your browser's incognito mode or something?
<cjwatson> Or a restrictive cookie configuration?
<Dominique_Michel> I disabled ublock and now get an error: (Error ID: OOPS-10207eb1d7430da1e1279533c7a5103a)
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-10207eb1d7430da1e1279533c7a5103a
<cjwatson> Dominique_Michel: I guess you deleted and recreated your login.u.c account at some point
<cjwatson> Dominique_Michel: We can fix things up, but it'll need to wait until tomorrow since I need to get a sysadmin to help
<Dominique_Michel> Maybe. I can wait. And thank you, it will be helpful.
<Dominique_Michel> For the cookies, chrome is configured to delete them when I quit the session and to block their access by third parties.
