#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-10
<jjesse> evening whoever is hanging out at the keys :)
<jjesse> looks like i'm the only one
<HrdwrBob> yo
<jjesse> hello HrdwrBob
<Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I may have to hand off the quicktour for dapper
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, oh any reason why?
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, basically I my new job at Userful and Ubuntu stuff might collide
<Burgundavia> currently I am doing no doc work
<jsgotangco> ahh understood
<Burgundavia> until I get something in writing from Userful about copyright, etc.
<jsgotangco> what needs to be done on the quicktour now?
<Burgundavia> just screenshots
<jsgotangco> hrmmmm
<jsgotangco> i guess its pretty safe to do screenshots now
<Burgundavia> yes
<jsgotangco> since we're already locked for RC
<Burgundavia> I have started on my laptop, but didn't get them done by Sunday
<Burgundavia> I might be being paranoid, but I would rather be sure
<jsgotangco> sure corey don't worry about it too much
<jsgotangco> im sure we'll come up with something good during UBZ
<robitaille> I know the feeling...everything I do during the day at work is technically owned by the Queen of England...
<Burgundavia> I am already cleared to go to UBZ, which is good
<jsgotangco> robitaille, but the queen of england is also the queen of canada...
* Burgundavia doesn't know if he should be pleased that Useful views Ubuntu as a possible competitor or not
<MadpilotPPC> robitaille, no, copyright is owned by the Queen of Canada, who happens also to be the Queen of various smaller places too... ;)
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  I know.  Actually we just say it is owned by the crown.
<Burgundavia> robitaille, the Queen of Canada is a seperate legal entity to the Queen of England
* robitaille reminds himself to get a picture of the queen to put in his office one of these days :)
<robitaille> at the end of the day it doesn't matter: I don't own the stuff
<jsgotangco> if i move to victoria i need to have a picture of the queen in my house?
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  no!
<jsgotangco> ahh goodie
<robitaille> a statue will be enough :)
<jsgotangco> gyahhh
<MadpilotPPC> jsgotangco, yes. And newcomers to victoria are also required to go to High Tea at the Empress at least once ;)
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, 5' minimum, in the front lawn
* jsgotangco crosses off victoria
<MadpilotPPC> you can install a statue of Queen Victoria if the current model doesn't suit you, though
<robitaille> wow...all my recent documents are gone from gnome-panel after tonight's updates.  I wonder if that's a bug
<Burgundavia> robitaille, hmm, open another doc, they reappear
<robitaille> Burgundavia,  yep; they did.  confused me for a second there
<robitaille> hummm 11pm...and still many slides to prepare for my ubuntu/foss talk on Thursday. 
<robitaille> another long evening coming up...
<jsgotangco> robitaille, where you speaking?
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  at work. We have an internal seminars series every week, and I try to give a 1-hour talk every year.   this time around, I decided to sell foss and ubuntu to my coworkers :)
<mdke> morning
<jsgotangco> hey mdke 
<mdke> jsgotangco, you never answered my /query yesterday :/
* Burgundavia needs to sleep, 12 hours tomorrow
<jsgotangco> mdke, of?
<jsgotangco> i didnt see any PM
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> oh well, i'll try again then
<jsgotangco> mdke, where do you suggest to put the doc bug in then?
<jsgotangco> hi enrico =)
<enrico> jsgotangco: hi
<jsgotangco> how's life treating you? good i hope
<ompaul> Hi, this falls somewhere between devs and docs, so I'll throw it in here for what its worth, I upgraded the two machines in the house around the start of colony 4,  The file /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html cannot be found/ Please check the location and try again. my wife brought this to my attention, it did not bother me, but the date we now have does :)   The file /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html cannot be found/ Please check the loc
<ompaul> ation and try again.
<ompaul> this happened a couple of weeks ago
<ompaul> I did report it but had forgotten about it :)
<rob^> its working for me
<ompaul> rob^, hoary / breezy?
<rob^> breezy
<ompaul> hmm
<ompaul> so it never fixed on my box :)
<rob^> is your system up to date?
<rob^> some of those files only got added in a recent update
<ompaul> up to yesterday - currently downloading
<jsgotangco> mmm?
<ompaul> actually ubuntu-docs is held back according to my machine
<rob^> what happens when you type the following into firefox? file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
<jsgotangco> ompaul, force it
<rob^> ompaul, thats probably the problem
<rob^> I thought jbailey was gonna fix that?
<ompaul> it is the same :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> just a tic. ill open firefox as ewll :/ mine was broken yesterday
<jsgotangco> same => the ugly white page?
<rob^> yep
<ompaul> well yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have a plain white page
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, no text?
<Kamping_Kaiser> got text, yeh
<Kamping_Kaiser> i was agreeing with ugly white page bit
<jsgotangco> yes
<ompaul> it is in bugzilla but under ff as ff was having all sorts of issues - it was the time when 1.0.7 came out and all the clever backports broke :)
<jsgotangco> we're still thinking of vodoo css for it
<ompaul> jsgotangco, any css will do :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. yeh
<jsgotangco> ompaul, vodoo is being considered though
<jsgotangco> heh
<ompaul> okay so it is in your sights, that is all I wanted to know
<rob^> grr I need access to faqguide bugs in bugzilla
<jsgotangco> edit bug?
<rob^> yes
<ompaul> the reason I am saying this today is that it is my intention to wipe the machine in the next couple of days, and install the colony 6, so I wanted to make sure that it has gone away :)
<rob^> and I need to be able to have them assigned to me too
<jsgotangco> give me the bug# and your bugzilla email
<rob^> 15475
* ompaul goes to find it (if I can)
<rob^> robbieboy@gmail.com
<rob^> hmm I love old but still working email addresses :)
* ompaul is tempted to say /nick spambotcollectorgeneral - all your addresses is belong to us!
<rob^> yeah I just thought that
* ompaul has a pathological hatred of spammers and phishers
<rob^> they suck alright
<jsgotangco> rob^, is this really fixed?
<jsgotangco> i can close this
<rob^> yes
<rob^> I'm looking at the branch, its been fixed for at least a week or two now
<rob^> its fixed in the ubuntu-docs package too
<jsgotangco> rob^, http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=bugs.resolution%2C+relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=Documentation&content=
<jsgotangco> squash em!
<jsgotangco> eheh
<rob^> heh, 15013
<rob^> are problems with upstream docs our problem?
<ompaul> amazing hu? no audio, killall esd results in no process killed, audio works
<ompaul> ahh wrong channel :)
<rob^> jsgotangco, bug 15673, isn't this a yelp issue, not a docs issue?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ping?
<Kamping_Kaiser> are people still working on teh 'unoficial ubuntu FAQ guide' in the help ? bits are missing :/, i was wondering if they were perminant bits
<mdke> yo
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, have you got the latest version?
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: i thought so, but i could be 2 days out of date ( now i think about it), because i used my isps mirror
<Kamping_Kaiser> ill try updating the docs from the master mirrors and see then
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, well that is up to date enough
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, the answer is:
<mdke> 1) yes we work on that document
<mdke> 2) we can't change it now because it is frozen
<mdke> 3) file any bugs and we can fix them for the next version
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thanks. ill (hopefully) be helping for the next version... it may end up being my problem :|
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, by the way, are you talking about errors in the document, or missing links?
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: example text missing. its in the "windows partitions" bit, all the example code (how to add blah line to fstab for example) is missing on my system
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, is there a link to the code?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent gone beond browsing the pages in help, so what sort of link?
<mdke> like "see this example" in blue, which you can click on
<mdke> or there is literally a bit missing?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, there is literaly a bit missing
<Kamping_Kaiser> *adds to 'bugs to file' list. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> is this launchpad or bugzilla?
<mdke> bugzilla
<mdke> i'm not sure if that will get fixed actually
<mdke> maybe it will be
<mdke> if it isn't fixed in breezy, pls file the bug
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. i have a list i need to add when i work out my bugzilla ccount again, so ill add it tothat
<mdke> great thanks
<mdke> jbailey, awake?
<jbailey> mdke: Sortof.
<mdke> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh
<mdke> jbailey, i have got a bit of free time, shall I make that string change?
<jbailey> mdke: Sure.  It seems we're in RC freeze now. =(  I thought I still had today.
<jbailey> Ah well.
<jbailey> It'll go in post RC.
<mdke> cool
<mdke> jbailey, for the localised omf files, shall i delete them and rerun the script? that should regenerate them right?
<jbailey> That's the theory. =)
<mdke> jbailey, or is it better to do it by hand so that the localised xml files don't get touched
<jbailey> If you're feeling particularily brave (since we have an extra day) we could run the poxml against the OMF files for the aboutubuntu and get that entry translated for the menu
<mdke> i wouldn't know how to do that
<mdke> it might require regenerating the pot template and merging the translation po files...
<Kamping_Kaiser> im going to (gasp shock horror) try and read through ubuntus (not unoffical) guide... see if i spot anything else obvious. 
<mdke> jbailey, string changed and committed
<jbailey> Tx
<mdke> we should update the translations too... but I guess that would be against the rules
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry about not doing this look at help before, im noticing a lot  (some of which probably has bugs against it already, but ill look when i have my list) :(
<mdke> np
<mdke> you can fix em for next release
<Kamping_Kaiser> cool. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> btw. i have a wiki account, what else do i need to do? (join the team in a formal way i asume?)
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, im on the mail list
<mdke> nope
<mdke> when work is going on for dapper properly, just start submitting patches
<mdke> but there is likely to be a bit of confusion until then while we work out our goals and working methods
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. well ill be around here, and im on the list, so when i can start being usefull i want to try :|
<mdke> yep that would be good
<Kamping_Kaiser> thanks.
<Riddell> who is Greg Taylor and Troy Williams?
<mdke> Riddell, they are people who have worked on docs
<Riddell> ok cool, just checking they weren't made up :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> for the record, i made it to 'hardware', but i stoped to go to bed. soi ll see you all tomorrow i hope :)
<mdke> night
<Kamping_Kaiser> nigh :)
<Riddell> mdke: could you apply this patch to branches/breezy/kde http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/docs2.diff
<mdke> Riddell, lemme try
<mdke> Riddell, what command am I using?
<mdke> (sorry)
<Riddell> mdke: don't worry, jjesse is back from lunch
<mdke> Riddell, ok
<jjesse> hey Riddell thanks for applying the style sheet that looks a heck of a lot better then what i did 
<jjesse> everyone else should check out the new kreleasenotes
<Riddell> jjesse: they'll need to install kdelibs to do so :)
<Kinnison> ciao all
<jjesse> Riddell: or just svn up and build krn
<jjesse> right?
<Riddell> well it needs a stylesheet from kdelibs
<jjesse> ah
<Riddell> if they want to see the HTML
<ompaul> that docs error I was talking about several hours ago :"The file /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html cannot be found. Please check the location and try again." the message coming from a browser.  I have paid more attention getting the last batch of updates and Update Mangler suggests that I use Synaptic Smart Upgrade or Distupgrade for ubuntu-docs, your opinion on if this is of value or just do the upgrade like the nice soft
<ompaul> ware is telling me :)
<jjesse> ompaul sorry i think i'm the only one at the keys and i use kubuntu
<ompaul> jjesse, np, I have hours :) 
<ompaul> jjesse, its not really the kind of question I expected an answer in #ubuntu about ;-)
<mdke> ompaul, that bug is fixed in the last ubuntu-docs
<ompaul> mdke, so I should ignore the ubuntu-docs is held back and install it
<mdke> ompaul, up to you
<ompaul> mdke, done :)
<ompaul> test in a min when it gets downloaded
<mdke> i can guarantee that the file is there
<mdke> it was fixed a couple of days ago
<ompaul> Unpacking replacement ubuntu-docs ..
<ompaul> mdke, what was getting me was it was telling me distupgrade / smart upgrade I would have thought that it should not have said that, but I don't know enough about apt
<mdke> me neither
<mdke> you'll need to dist-upgrade a few times while running the development release though
<ompaul> :)
<mdke> after release, it will be ok
<jjesse> mdke is jbailey making the doc packages for kubuntu?
<mdke> dunno
<mdke> i think Riddell is doing it
<jjesse> probablly
<jjesse> i know jbailey mentioned something aobut it yesterday
<jjesse> are we going to create a wiki page that is kubuntu release notes? we already have a breezy release notes
<jjesse> but was just wondering about kubuntu release notes page
<ompaul> mdke, okay that worked, all I need to do now is get the artwork for said page, but I guess that is not out until the badger gets released
<jbailey> jjesse: It wasn't clear to me who was doing it.
<jjesse> jbailey: me either that's why i was asking
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-11
<DWoodley> hi
<Riddell> jbailey: I'm making the kubuntu-docs package for breezy
<jbailey> Riddell: Luvly. =)
<jbailey> Riddell: I tried the KDE live cd.  It looks much prettier than the last time I looked at it.
<jbailey> Which, erm..
<jbailey> Admittedly was like KDE 2.0 or so.
<Riddell> I'm proud of you
<jbailey> Well, it was RC day, so I tested as much as I could.
<Riddell> yay :)
<jbailey> I should add the rsync for i386 and ppc kubuntu live CDs too.
<Riddell> you tested amd64?
<jbailey> Yeah.
<Riddell> 2005-10-06? or 05?
<jbailey> It turns out that's the only one I've got on my nightly rsync.
<jbailey> I do my nightly rsync at about 06h00 GMT.
<jbailey> Colin regenerated all of the CDs this morning once the archive was frozen and fully built.
<jbailey> And I rsyncd again after that.
<Riddell> the 2005-10-06 was made about 1.5 hours ago
<Riddell> it would be lovely if you could test that on amd64 since that's the platform I don't have
<jbailey> Sure.  Is 2005-10-06 appreciably different?
<jbailey> I can rsync it while I go out to dinner and test it after.
<Riddell> should be very minimally different
<jbailey> Sucky speed, you'd think everyone was testing the RC or something. =)
<jbailey> Ahah, done.
<jbailey> I'll still have to test on my wife's machine where she's watching a video. 
<jbailey> Riddell: What timezone are you in?
<Riddell> jbailey: europe/edinburgh
<Riddell> 01:47
<jbailey> So I'll email you after with a success report.
<Riddell> thanks
<Riddell> I like that optimism, "success" report
<jbailey> WEll, I got it running earlier, so I expect the same will occur?
<Riddell> no reason why not
<Riddell> jbailey: are you able to test the DVD as well?
<jbailey> My DVD burner's been giving me alot of blanks.
<Riddell> don't worry then
<jbailey> I can try it, though.  Lemme rsync it
<jbailey> I probably won't bother adding it to my nightly rsync's, though.
<jbailey> You only need the live mode tested from the DVD, yes?
<Riddell> umm, not sure
<jbailey> I can't wipe out my wife's machine atm. =)
<Riddell> good enough for me, I should be getting an AMD64 soon so I'll be able to test it properly myself
<jbailey> Yeah, I had to buy one for hacking, too. =(
<jbailey> Feh, inconsistant naming.
<jbailey> -rw-r--r--      259585 2005/09/26 16:15:38 breezy-dvd-i386.list
<jbailey> Is there a newer one coming?
<Riddell> oh hang on, aye
<Riddell> it's not ready yet
<jbailey> np =)
<Riddell> still building
<jbailey> I'll rsync it while I sleep
<jbailey> I guess I can start this one now.
<jbailey> Mm
<jbailey> Nah, no point.
<jbailey> I'll be asleep, what do I care about it later?
<jsgotangco> hi all
<jsgotangco> jbailey, ping?
<Riddell> jbailey: new kubuntu DVD up
<jsgotangco> nice
<jbailey> jsgotangco: pong, but heading to bed shortly.
<jsgotangco> jbailey, no worries, just want to inform you i've uploaded an updated release notes review as needed but will need to add more stuff ajmitch is looking into it as well
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Oh nice!
<jbailey> Sounds lovely.  I'm aiming for an upload tomorrow night.
<jbailey> g'n!
<jsgotangco> night sleep tight
<MadpilotPPC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SATAHowto  <-- this is actually in German; shouldn't it be DeutschSATAHowto or GermanSATAHowto?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<MadpilotPPC> Deutsch (sp?) or German... etc?
<MadpilotPPC> will check the wiki, anyway, and rename
<MadpilotPPC> renamed to GermanSATAHowto - there were no links to the original, so I haven't bothered with a redirect...
<jsgotangco> hopefully it wasn't linked from the forums =)
<MadpilotPPC> eep
<MadpilotPPC> good point...
<MadpilotPPC> I'll build a SATAHowto disambiguation page, then, asking for English content and linking to the German stuff
<MadpilotPPC> rebuilt the SATAHowto page, in case of external links. it's got a link to the renamed German-lang. page...
<MadpilotPPC> hi robitaille 
<robitaille> Hi MadpilotPPC 
<jsgotangco> robitaille, you interested in release notes editing/writing?
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  sure.  But only starting 24 hours from now.  
<robitaille> (too many things to do on Thursday....
<MadpilotPPC> robitaille, you to that talk at work tomorrow, don't you?
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  yeah... and a few other things as well.  I look forward to the long weekend :)
<MadpilotPPC> finished your slides for the talk?
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  do you work at Hutchison on Wednesdays?  I'm usually there to pick my daughter at lunch time after her soccer game.  
<jsgotangco> robitaille, https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/gnome/releasenotes/C/breezy-release-notes.xml
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  only a couple more to do!
<MadpilotPPC> robitaille, I work 2-6 at BH on Wednesday, usually
<jsgotangco> robitaille, i'll need more stuff on "known issues"
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  I'll take a look at it tomorrow.
<jsgotangco> robitaille, thanks it'll be heavily updated by then =)
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  I'm usually there at noon for a few minutes;  I'll try to pass by and wave next wednesday :)
<robitaille> any news on when the RC will be out?
<MadpilotPPC> robitaille, cool. you want to have a Breezy release mini-party at my place sometime next week? ;)
<jsgotangco> robitaille, the builds are being tested atm we'll probably have it in a day or two
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  a party would be neat.  
<MadpilotPPC> beer and Cat5 all over the living room, anyway.
<MadpilotPPC> 13th is a Thursday night; that works for me, and I think Corey will be free.
<MadpilotPPC> I'll get him to drop something on the VLUG list as well, if other Linuxy types want to drop by
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,  I wonder I what time they will release this year.  For hoary I was on IRC when they turn on the archive and sent the announcement.  
<MadpilotPPC> is it actually set for a specific time of day?
<robitaille> no; it's whenever they finish building it :)
<MadpilotPPC> ah, OK. I'm on IRC all the time when my own computer is running anyway, so if it hasn't released by evening our time we can wait for the countdown on my machine ;)
<MadpilotPPC> but given our timezone, I'd be quite surprised if it wasn't out already by evening PDT
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC, want to put your release party announcement on the Fridge :)
<MadpilotPPC> robitaille, that's a bit ambitious... I was going to add it to the release party wiki page, though, with a 'contact me first please!' note
<MadpilotPPC> maybe you should just add a general note about the release parties to the Fridge?
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC, looking at the logs, it seems someone did one already; but I don't have access to it, and jdub hasn't published it yet to the public page
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC, but a quick announcement of your party on the ubuntu-ca list could be neat.  We haven't seen an email there in days... maybe that would wake up some of these sleepy canadians. 
<MadpilotPPC> will do
<MadpilotPPC> hi Burgundavia - another 12hr day?
<jsgotangco> hey hey
<Burgundavia> MadpilotPPC, indeed
<Burgundavia> it almost looked like a 13 hr one tomorrow
<MadpilotPPC> ack
<Burgundavia> but it turned intoa 12 1/2 one, as we start at 8:30 am
<MadpilotPPC> Burgundavia, what're you doing on Thursday the 13th? robitaille and I were thinking of beer & Breezy geekery at my place
<robitaille> look at it as a practice of when you will have kids :)   I never knew I could function for so long with so few hours of sleep night after night
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> your place or tonys?
<MadpilotPPC> my place
<MadpilotPPC> Tony's is tomorrow night, if you're still functional
<Burgundavia> oh, we are talking next week
* Burgundavia is very very tired
<jsgotangco> what is better "Getting Help" or "Obtaining Help"
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, Getting
<jsgotangco> right
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco, obtaining is far too wordy
<MadpilotPPC> 13th is Breezy release day, that's a week from tomorrow
<jsgotangco> the release notes are almost done
<jsgotangco> MadpilotPPC, "crunch time"
<Burgundavia> right
<jsgotangco> MadpilotPPC, things are always buzzing in devel at this time
<Burgundavia> I hope to sort out my legal status on Friday
<Burgundavia> then I can finish the quicktour on Sunday
<jsgotangco> <title>Getting Help and Technical Support</title>
<jsgotangco>     		<para>Ubuntu 5.10 gives users an easy way to get help in most applications installed by default. Once you have an active internet connection, from an open application, just click on
<jsgotangco> etc, etc.
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<MadpilotPPC> Burgundavia, "sort out your legal status" - you mean w/ Userful vis-a-vis Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> MadpilotPPC, indeed
<Burgundavia> I need to sign the actual start of employment stuff
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, review the breezy-release-notes.xml when you're free
* Burgundavia just laughs
<jsgotangco> its almost done, just needs some specific stuff on known bugs and installing
<MadpilotPPC> Burgundavia, so spill what you can now, before your NDA kicks in! j/k...
<jsgotangco> mdz got to review it today
<Burgundavia> I will try and review it tomorrow, but no promises
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia, no worries
<MadpilotPPC> when do you bail from BoosterJuice, Burgundavia? soon, I hope...
<jsgotangco> why? it seems to do him good
<Burgundavia> I bailed today
<Burgundavia> Joy (the owner) was seriously not happy
<Burgundavia> she is going to Vancouver for two weeks to get a new kid (they are adopting)
<Burgundavia> my last shift is next Wednesday, but I have the weekend off thank god
<Burgundavia> from #gnome-hackers
<Burgundavia> shaunm see also Project Mallard
<Burgundavia> davyd quack
<Burgundavia> shaunm no no
<Burgundavia> shaunm it's Quack!
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> i should look into Mallard
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to sleep, much work for me tomorrow
<jsgotangco> night
<jsgotangco> hey mdke 
<mdke> hiya
<jsgotangco> you got time to review release notes?
<mdke> not right now, but maybe later
<jsgotangco> ok its generally done though, and mdz got to review it already just want more inputs
<mdke> what's the status?
<jsgotangco> its pretty hard to do it by myself heh
<jsgotangco> oh pretty much done and just waiting for more known issues and some simple faqs
<mdke> ok i have a known issue for you, unless it is fixed before release
<mdke> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16678
<jsgotangco> Ubuntu Bugzilla bug #16678: gdm does not detect new it_IT.UTF-8 locale Product: Ubuntu, Component: gdm, Severity: major, Assigned to: michael.vogt@ubuntu.com, Status: NEW http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16678
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<mdke> (shower)
<mdke> (work)
<jsgotangco> (taxes)
<jsgotangco> (death)
<MadpilotPPC> (beer)
<jsgotangco> (wine/women/waltz)
<robitaille> (sleep)
<MadpilotPPC> http://www.fiftythree.org/etherkiller/ <-- evil, and I like it...
<jsgotangco> err those are good when you want to strangle your office mate
<MadpilotPPC> and after you strangle him, you can blow up his computer, and every other piece of electronics on his desk!
<ajmitch_> :)
<rob^> jbailey, how did we go with getting that string changed?
<jbailey> rob^: Good, mdz accepted it
<jbailey> It'll go in right after RC.
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<rob^> ah good news
<rob^> great :)
<jjesse> morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi jjesse
<jjesse> hello Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-12
<jsgotangco> jbailey, around?
<MadpilotPPC> there's a docteam mtg at 1400Z, right?
<robitaille> yep according to the schedule
<MadpilotPPC> ack... 0700 our time... am *not* a morning person... ;)
<thechitowncubs> Hey everyone
<thechitowncubs> anyone here?
<thechitowncubs> [[TableOfContents([maxdepth] )] ] 
<thechitowncubs> What would be an example of maxdepth
<thechitowncubs> I'm trying to change this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultimediaApplications
<robitaille> the crowd waves at thechitowncubs  :)
<thechitowncubs> but I can't seem to get the table to record my maxdepth option
<MadpilotPPC> wiki markup... blarg...
<robitaille> MadpilotPPC,   yeah 7am is a bad time for me.  Maybe tomorrow will be better since there is no school on friday due to that teacher strike....
<thechitowncubs> 11:21 pm here
<thechitowncubs> I want to fix this one thing before I go to bed.
<thechitowncubs> It's been bugging me for a long time...
<thechitowncubs> anyone have any ideas?
<MadpilotPPC> thechitowncubs, I see what you mean; that's an ugly ToC
<thechitowncubs> HEH
<thechitowncubs> I'm trying to limit it to the app name
<MadpilotPPC> what happens if you bump some of the subtitles down to just being bold, rather than being actual headers
<thechitowncubs> that's an option, i'd rather use the maxdepth option, seems to be easy
<MadpilotPPC> ... only if it works...
<thechitowncubs> Ah, fixed.
<thechitowncubs> had to remove [] 
<mdke> jbailey, for when you get up, PM for ya
<robitaille> jsgotangco,   I'm not too late to look at the release notes?  24 hours later, I'm finally free to look at them :)
<jsgotangco> robitaille, zone out, its very much open season at the moment
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  in the credit section, we have "contributors" for all the section, even the ones with only one guy listed.  Should I change them, or we are expected more names everywhere?
<jsgotangco> credit?
<robitaille> in the release notes, at the end there is a credit section
<jsgotangco> what are you looking at
* jsgotangco is sure he didn't put any credits
<robitaille> gnome/releasenotes/C/release-notes.xml
<robitaille> humm.. I guess I was reading the wrong one :)
<jsgotangco> nooo
<jsgotangco> breezy-release-notes.xml
<robitaille> now I'm lost.  so it's not on the svn repo?
<robitaille> but only at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/gnome/releasenotes/C/breezy-release-notes.xml
<jsgotangco> it is
<jsgotangco> that's the one
<robitaille> ok I got it now..  I was a bit dense tonight...  maybe a sign that it is bed time soon :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> the doc is almost done though just a few more things to add
<robitaille> is "regulary" a word?  :)    (in the first line of what's new) 
<Kinnison> hi
<robitaille> jsgotangco,   I'm going to bed.  The only 2 things in the breezy-release notes I noticed were that "regulary" typo in the what's new section, and section 2.4 is missing the actual installation instructions.  But I'm guessing the instructions are still to come
<jsgotangco> robitaille, just the mandatory press enter or type server or oem thing
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  how about inserting the CD first :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> i'll work on it tonight then send to list for reviews
<robitaille> sounds good.  good night
<rob^> is it worth having a meeting today?
<MadpilotPPC> at oh-God-hundred hours?
<rob^> yar
<MadpilotPPC> I'm not going to make it, I'm afraid...
<rob^> I noticed the agenda page hasn't been updated, because theres really not much to talk about at the moment
<MadpilotPPC> 1400Z = 0700 local, it's currently 0130 local, I'm four beer down and I work at 0900. 0700 meetings are right out for me... ;)
<rob^> the meeting is at midnight friday here
<jsgotangco> rob^, lol
<rob^> :)
<jsgotangco> we made the meeting at 14:00 for our special friend the aussies
<rob^> such as me
<jsgotangco> (friday as well)
<jsgotangco> but the canucks doesn't seem to favor it at all
<jsgotangco> rob^, we need to rebuild
<rob^> 1400 doesn't bother me, friday is good though
<jsgotangco> we're the only active writers atm
<rob^> yeah ;(
<jsgotangco> along with jjesse
<rob^> maybe we need to make it easier for people to help
<rob^> I noticed the odd person offering help on the list
<jsgotangco> odd?
<jsgotangco> we'll get creamed in dapper if we don't get our act together
<rob^> odd, as in occasional
<jsgotangco> au english *grr*
<rob^> aussie enlglish
<rob^> heh
<rob^> english
<rob^> I was tempted to do an aussie slang translation of the faq guide but didn't get time :)
<MadpilotPPC> English is a wonderful language, but it's not actually spoken in England and everyone thinks their version is the "proper" version... ;)
<jsgotangco> rob^, what is your vision of doc work in dapper
<MadpilotPPC> rob^, I've been kicking around the idea of a .ca slang one, in time for UBZ, as a joke... ;)
<jsgotangco> MadpilotPPC, are you doing an all-nighter?
<rob^> well for one thing I think it would be easier to discuss at ubz in person
<MadpilotPPC> jsgotangco, no, I'm off to bed very, very soon, it's just on 0200 here
<rob^> but I can't swim that far :P
<jsgotangco> same here i could probably swim to your place though if i start this weekend
<rob^> heh you and I would be the docteam meeting
<jsgotangco> rob^, MadpilotPPC we still need a plan though
<rob^> umm well now that we have an faq it won't take much to update it come dapper
<rob^> I think we should now work on getting the user guide up to scratch
<jsgotangco> are you really satisfied with the faq atm
<rob^> well about as satisfied as I can be
<rob^> given the time restraint
<rob^> I'd like to have the kubuntu one done too
<rob^> I think we can still have a cost effective faq, but there are two or three pages that need to be separate for Ubuntu and Kubuntu
<rob^> I do think these string freezes are bad for keeping the docteam together though
<jsgotangco> string freeze ain't bad what's bad is that no one's writing
<rob^> I think its because no one really can at the moment
<rob^> before breezy is released there is no point trying to document an os that doesn't yet exist
<rob^> as it was several late changed had to go through for the faq guide
<jsgotangco> i disagree we have rolling milestones
<rob^> changes*
<rob^> maybe, but how can one write a faq guide or userguide about dapper at the moment?
<jsgotangco> like i said we have rolling milestones
<jsgotangco> oh you can't atm really
<jsgotangco> but you know have your breezy
<rob^> likelyhood is that not much will happen until after ubz, when plans have been put into place for dapper
<jsgotangco> rob^, oh no writing actually happens even after ubz
<jsgotangco> but it doesn't mean you won't plan
<rob^> I'm talking real work though
<jsgotangco> a week or two after ubz dapper uploads will happen
<rob^> jsgotangco, yes thats what I meant
<rob^> I think one thing that would help is being able to upload new ubuntu-docs updatesafter release
<jsgotangco> yes that's what me and jbailey have talked about
<jsgotangco> making sure docs are uplodaed for every milestone
<jsgotangco> even if its just WIP
<rob^> yes, thats a good start, one that I agree with
<rob^> its a pitty we cant have things translated after Ubuntu/Kubuntu release though
<jbailey> mdke: I could only wish it were PM when I woke up ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> does anyone know how big the doc svn repo is? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> iv downloaded what feels like a lot of stuff for doco :)
* Kamping_Kaiser phears teh svn update - over 130MB :O and going strong
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. 197M of doco. nice effort ppl :O
<jsgotangco> gahhh i totally forgot about 1400
<jsgotangco> err anyone awake?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh, but whats 1400 :?
<jsgotangco> i got caught in a huge traffic jam and it was raining so hard
<jsgotangco> the main streets were flooded
<Kamping_Kaiser> nice effort :O
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser: supposed to be docteam meeting (regular)
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh. now?
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser: i was literally driving for 3 hours on floods
<jsgotangco> and my little car was my hero of the day
<Kamping_Kaiser> awsome :D 
<jsgotangco> i shouldht have gone to the pub
<Kamping_Kaiser> we just got drizzel here ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have to start sifting bugzilla to see which of my 'bugs' have/havent been dealt with
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<Kamping_Kaiser> and i havent finished tearing breezys help apart yet, so ill be in bugzilla for a long time :(
<Kamping_Kaiser> then i have to deal with tehm :S
<jsgotangco> heh what is there to tear apart
<Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco: are you any good with regex?
<jsgotangco> no
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. ok. ill keep poking grep then :(
<jsgotangco> jbailey is your daddy
<Kamping_Kaiser> re bugs, im going through the 'unnoffical guide' one page at a time trying to find errors, since its fairly important if it does end up going into breezy+1 (which iirc was in question?)
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser: yes
<jsgotangco> we'd like to build on it in the future
<jsgotangco> its nice you've looked ahead
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, pls note that in the docteam repo, "trunk" is out of date, the breezy stuff is to be found in branches/breezy
<jsgotangco> hey mdke
<jsgotangco> mdke: sorry for the death of our meeting, i got caught in a very bad traffic jam
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: i just finished the svn update, i havent had much chance to realy look at it, but thanks for the heads up
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Eh? =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> jbailey: your good with regex?
<jbailey> Kamping_Kaiser: I'm not a master, no.
<mdke> jsgotangco, i couldn't make it either mate
<jbailey> Not an apprentice anymore, though. =)
<Kamping_Kaiser> then your better then me :) 
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, the instructions on the wiki refer to downloading the "trunk" which is our normal working copy
<mdke> however they dont include some changes which we made to the breezy branch after we branched it off
<mdke> hope this clarifies things
<jsgotangco> hi jbailey
<Kamping_Kaiser> sort of mdke. what would be different in what i have from svn (from the wiki) and the branch? do i have to do something special to get it?
<jbailey> Kinnison: Hey darlin'
<jsgotangco> hi Kinnison
<Kamping_Kaiser> jbailey: the reason i ask -> grep ^.+ testfile <- isnt doing what i thought it did (list every line with characters in it)
<jsgotangco> mdke: got to talk to sabdfl a few hours ago, said he's gonna start writing too
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, you can check out the breezy branch by substituting "trunk" with "branches/breezy"
<mdke> jsgotangco, cool
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: thanks. ill try it
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: will the breezy branch be as large as trunk?
<mdke> yep
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. ok. could i download it over the top of trunk? i asume i can?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, either delete trunk or download it to another location
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thanks
<mdke> ok jbailey, ping?
<jbailey> This client really sucks.  It doesn't highlight on jbailey,
<mdke> heh
<jbailey> I wonder how many, I miss...
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh
<mdke> jbailey, got a moment, i'll show you what I mean with that faqguide translation stuff
<Kinnison> jbailey: what client?
<mdke> jbailey, yeah cool I can fix it
<jbailey> Kinnison: irssi-text
<jbailey> mdke: Sure, sorry.  Got lagged trying to make my laptop boot
<mdke> heh
<Kinnison> jdub: Odd, mine works fine
<mdke> jbailey, i have fixed de and sr
<Kinnison> urgh
<Kinnison> I can type
<Kinnison> jbailey: odd, mine works fine
<jbailey> mdke: Ooo, what did it take?
<jbailey> Kinnison, hmm
<jbailey> jbailey, hmm
<mdke> removing some duplicate strings
<Kinnison> jbailey: shiny?
<mdke> jbailey, if you want to see a simple example: svn up in faqguide/de then run "xml2po -e -p de.po ../C/faqguide.xml > faqguide.xml
<mdke> i'll upload the fixes in a moment
<jbailey> mdke: So who's broken.  The translator, rosetta, or poxml? =)
<mdke> jbailey, rosetta I think
* jbailey does the summon jordi dance
<mdke> heh
<mdke> possibly xml2po tho
<jsgotangco> the translatations seem to be truncated?
<mdke> no
<mdke> there are some duplicate msgid's
<mdke> caused by merges in rosetta
<mdke> that stop xml2po
<jsgotangco> right
<mdke> ok i've fixed pt, de and sr
<mdke> ro has major issues
<jsgotangco> ugghhh
<jsgotangco> wish i could help but translations are way out of my league
<jsgotangco> unless you just want me to edit/delete the extras?
<jbailey> jsgotangco: What, you don't speak Romanian? =)
<mdke> heh
<jsgotangco> Pri Ubuntu
<mdke> i'll need to bash jordi and dand's heads together to figure it out
<mdke> anyhow jbailey, the fixes are uploaded for those 3 languages
<jsgotangco> jbailey: i've been improving in esperanto though
<jbailey> mdke: Nice, thanks.
<jsgotangco> good night
<Kamping_Kaiser> ping? anyone about? how big is the doc team?
<mdke> not very
<mdke> participation varies
<Kamping_Kaiser> so would it be this room +50%? or is it *very* dynamic in participation
<mdke> very
<mdke> you can't put a number on it
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. was just wondering. thanks :)
<mdke> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-doc is not a bad start though
<mdke> plus jbailey 
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. i should re create my wiki account. my name isnt set up for a wikiname :/
<mdke> i have two wikinames
<mdke> i rock
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. showoff :P
<mdke> they are the same though
<Kamping_Kaiser> whew. finished the 'unnoffial' quick guide
<Kamping_Kaiser> only things i skipped were CC and GNU FDL :|
<jordi> mdke: hey. I'm here now.
<jordi> mdke: ping
<jordi> mdke: I don't have ro.po
<mdke> jordi, hi
<mdke> jordi, seems the ro issue is already known and reported
<mdke> jordi, any idea about the de/sr/pt issues?
<jordi> these fucking spammers are getting on my nerves today
<jordi> In your mail:
<jordi> In the above file for example, the offending part of the de.po was:
<jordi> #: faqguide.xml:212(para)
<jordi> #~ msgid ""
<jordi> #~ "Internal references will look like this: <xref linkend=\"sect- "
<jordi> #~ "acknowledgments\"/>.The numeral contained within square braces is
<jordi> the [page "
<jordi> #~ "number] ."
<jordi> but I don't see this in de.po?
<jordi> and the file compiles ok
<jordi> or are these files corrected by you and you want me to upload?
<mdke> jordi, that is correct
<mdke> which spammers?
<jordi> in general :)
<jordi> they think I'm ill and need medicines.
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<mdke> jordi, ah, ok. i saw that bug carlos posted. If you upload the corrected files I sent you, will it help?
<Kinnison> ciao
<mdke> hello/bye
<Kinnison> bye :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: i just got the branch/breezy doco arm. its 30M smaller hten the trunk . could that be right?
<Kamping_Kaiser> later mate :)
<mdke> yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> nice. so i have both :D up to date :D
<mdke> cool
<mdke> we will merge the changes back across to trunk at some stage
<Kamping_Kaiser> so i should be looking at breezy to see whats got bugs or not?
<jordi> mdke: I have no clue. Are there any changes in the file besides removing those obsolete strings?
<mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, not really, since we can't fix them for breezy anyhow
<mdke> jordi, no, none
<jordi> mdke: you can upload them, can you?
<mdke> jordi, i thought it was limited to translation teams only, but I can try
<jordi> mdke: if you're the po owner (you are, right?), you should be able to do a "published upload"
<mdke> jordi, boh :) I can upload the pot template, but I have never tried uploading a cc.po before
<mdke> jordi, will any changes that have been done since the po file was downloaded be lost?
<jordi> just go to the de directory inside the potemplate, and you'll see an "upload file" link.
<mdke> k
<jordi> mdke: I think so; nto entirely sure
<jordi> actually no, rosetta data should take precedence
<mdke> fingers crossed then
<mdke> i'll try later
<jordi> I can find out for sure :)
<mdke> okay i'll check here before i do it then
<mdke> dinner now
<jsgotangco> dinner?
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> its already 2am here
<Kamping_Kaiser> 2 am? inda or somewhere like that 
<jordi> mdke: you'll be safe; read #lp
<Kamping_Kaiser> night all. 4am is a healthy time to crash imo :D
<mdke> jordi, i don't have permission to upload
<jordi> mdke: how do you do template updates?
<mdke> i upload them ok
<jordi> mdke: don't worry. I'll handle.
<mdke> jordi, merci
<mdke> i tried at this page:
<jordi> so I just have to add those three files you emailed?
<mdke> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide/de/+upload
<jordi> what url exactly
<jordi> ?
<mdke> jordi, yeah those files I emailed
<jordi> that gave you perm denied?
<mdke> yep
<jordi> maybe it's only for the german translators and admins then.
<mdke> i think so
<jordi> mdke: ping
<mdke> jordi, hi
<jordi> mdke: false alarm
<jordi> I didn't find your email.
<jordi> I think everything is good now.
<mdke> thanks
<jbailey> Eh.  Why are the DTDs at the top of ccbysa.xml and friends commmented out?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-13
<jbailey> It seems like the gnome docbook translator doesn't like legalnotice as a toplevel notice?
<rob^> jbailey, yes I noticed that too
<jbailey> I'm trying to figure out if it should actually be a toplevel
<jbailey> Or if it should be wrapped in an appendix tag.
<rob^> if it works then sure, why not?
<jbailey> Well, trying for correctness, too. =)
<ajmitch__> hi
<rob^> I hate how yelp just decides to do its own thing like that
<jbailey> Heya Andrew
<jsgotangco> rob^: wouter has a valid point on "Add Applications"
<rob^> well, I did bring it up ages ago..
<rob^> maybe having a string freeze before the final product is released is a bad thing
<jbailey> I think the idea is that string freeze is supposed to be after feature freeze to allow for that.
<jbailey> What we need is to make sure that all specs  include a documentation component.
<rob^> but thats not whats happening
<mdke> morning
<rob^> hi mdke 
<MadpilotPPC> hi all
<rob^> my laptop is having a hard time with breezy
<rob^> debian is ok though
<rob^> I'll bbs once its soughted out
<rob^> :)
<MadpilotPPC> blast... people duplicating pages that already exist is *such* a waste of effort...
<MadpilotPPC> this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- has links to pages about various modems/linmodems
* mdke nods
<MadpilotPPC> which is good - except that SteveMyers has created new pages and new info for these modems, when there is already at least some information elsewhere in the wiki
<mdke> bitchslap em!
<MadpilotPPC> about these modems...
<mdke> yeah I made a note on his homepage encouraging him to get in touch with us
<MadpilotPPC> mdke, heh. I'm sure he means well, but right now he's just making a mess
<mdke> i don't think he is subscribed to his homepage...
<MadpilotPPC> I wasn't subscribed to my own homepage when I first created it, either... 
<MadpilotPPC> I'm going to do a bit of cleanup now, but it's late here
<MadpilotPPC> at least bumping stuff back up the RecentChanges list will get other ppl looking at it
<MadpilotPPC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=modem&fullsearch=Text
<MadpilotPPC> bleh... this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto  <-- is a mess too, for different reasons...
<mdke> oh well
<MadpilotPPC> I'm just going to bump a few things up RecentChanges, and leave it
<MadpilotPPC> I don't even use dailup myself...
<MadpilotPPC> added a note about the modem mess here --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems <-- we'll see what happens
<rob__> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp   <- not again..
<rob^> tweak yelp.. oh god
<jsgotangco> rob^, ping?
<rob^> jsgotangco, pong
<jsgotangco> rob^, who made those bof topics?
<rob^> which ones?
<jsgotangco> DocteamPlansDapper?
<rob^> that one was me
<rob^> the rest wasn't
<jsgotangco> mdz is the one who prioritizes bofs and stuff
<jsgotangco> no one will discuss it in montreal
<rob^> well its better then having helpfulhelp on there
<rob^> we have already been through that one
<jsgotangco> helpfulhelp?
<jsgotangco> have you ever seen the baz rep on that?
<rob^> something has to be discussed, I figured I better put something down thats relevent
<rob^> well, can you really picture what would need to happen for some of the things in helpfulhelp to work?
<rob^> integrated help for one is impossible
<jsgotangco> sorry i can't agree on that
<rob^> to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right?
<jsgotangco> a rolling release within milestones is the answer
<rob^> to do it, we would end up with forks of everything
<jsgotangco> ehh?
<rob^> I don't think the devels are gonna like us pushing work on em like that either
<jsgotangco> why not?
<jsgotangco> the aim of the rolling release is to push docs as early as possible even if its not complete
<rob^> 00:55| rob^ to have fully intergrated help, one would have to alter the code for each app, right?
<rob^> rolling release is a seperate issue
<jsgotangco> im not getting you in the integrated help
<jsgotangco> its just yelp/khelpcenter really
<rob^> its listed as embedded help on that page, also see the diagram
<jsgotangco> that's a really old issue that borked a lot of things
<jsgotangco> we're not talking about infrastructure here
<rob^> so whats the point of discussing it again then?
<rob^> all of the use cases go against it too
<jsgotangco> the purpose of a BOF is to study the feasibility
<jsgotangco> not implement
<rob^> the problem is that the page is a hacked together version of the old helpfulhelp page by mpt
<rob^> when he was pushing the issue of changing licences and stuff
<jsgotangco> because its going to be tied up with launchpad that's why
<jsgotangco> we're already seeing the beginnings of helpful help in breezy
<jsgotangco> the backend is already taking place
<rob^> I agree that h.u.c, launchpad and rolling releases are a good thing
<rob^> embedded help etc is not
<jsgotangco> because?
<rob^> I also think its a bit harsh to say that no one cares about books chapters etc
<rob^> people do, its just the interface to view them sucks
<jsgotangco> rob^, because in the first place, we're writing books/articles not help pages
<rob^> so no one could be bothered finding the info they need
<jsgotangco> just look at the docbook syntax
<jsgotangco> even project mallard is rethinking this book/article thing
<rob^> I know what project mallard is
<rob^> there isn't much we can do about that until he decides to change yelp or others do it for him
<jsgotangco> then again, help != books really
<rob^> yes, but help != causing more work for devels and forking software either
<rob^> the main reason I have a problem with some of this is because most of the key players (us) won't be there to discuss this
<rob^> and I don't want to be lumped with some crap I disagree with
<jsgotangco> that's fine and dandy but going against the flow (as i perceive DocteamPlansDapper) won't fix it
<rob^> I'm not, I'm just pointing out that we need to also keep focused on reality
<rob^> a good chuck of helpfulhelp has already been discussed and caused a lot of problems within the docteam
* jsgotangco is into helpful help sorry
<rob^> what we ended up with was two documents, because although people like to talk the talk most of them couldn't walk the walk when it came to contributing
<rob^> I even had people trying to tell me how I should be contributing
<rob^> who wern't contributing themself
<jsgotangco> well that's open source buddy not just the docteam experience that
<jsgotangco> we can't force people to do things when they ended up with no time doing so
<rob^> right, but I also don't apoligise for the fact that I stand up to myself
<rob^> or for myself rather
<rob^> but that didn't stop others from trying
<jsgotangco> rob^, just don't jump the gun yet, we don't even have a roadmap for dapper
<rob^> I'm not, I only just checked out the BOF page before and saw what I saw
<jsgotangco> BOFs are just BOFs nothing happens till someone picks it up and successfully implements it
<jsgotangco> (not to mention if its tagged as a priority)
<jsgotangco> the nice thing about this is that everything will be in flux so anything's possible
<rob^> we will see what happens I guess
<jsgotangco> so its actually possible that those existing books will be obsoleted, merged or retained as is
<jsgotangco> we'll only know after the roadmap is released
<rob^> yeah
<jsgotangco> (besides we can do more than just write) =)
<jsgotangco> good night
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-14
<Madpilot> anyone know about the "Under no circumstances should this page be edited unless" '''authorized.''' and other changes here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum?action=diff
<Madpilot> it seems a bit... odd?
<Madpilot> SteveMyers has basically rewritten the entire intent of that page, and made UserDocumentation a dumping ground for every half-complete howto
<Burgundavia> Madpilot, reverting to the old version
<Burgundavia> the edits to UserDocs can stay for now
<Madpilot> OK, thanks.
<Madpilot> now let's see if SteveMyers notices; he doesn't seem to have noticed the edits I did to his Modem pages...
<Burgundavia> I dropped a note on his user page
* Burgundavia pines for Mediawiki
<Madpilot> with visible Talk pages? 
<Burgundavia> yes, and notification when your user talk page changed
<Madpilot> there was also talk a while ago about making Edit Comments mandatory. +1 to that idea
<Burgundavia> indeeed
<HrdwrBob> mm
<HrdwrBob> possibly have a 'trivial edit' button
<HrdwrBob> if you're fixing spelling or somesuch
<Madpilot> there already is a trivial edit checkbox
<HrdwrBob> yeah
<Madpilot> which disables the sending of emails to ppl subscribed to that page
<Madpilot> it could likely disable mandatory comments as well
<HrdwrBob> yeah
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiskSpace  <-- this is short enough that it really should be rolled into another page, but I'm not quite sure where... somewhere in the Install pages?
<nickrud> I would read that, as something that should be broken out: the swap, the /, and the archive-copier as a really obscure thing under 'if all else fails'
<Madpilot> except that currently it's not linked to from *anywhere*, which rather defeats the purpose
<nickrud> heh
<Madpilot> we've got another enthusiastic newbie running all over the wiki making a mess, and firing stuff off at random... that's one of his pages
<nickrud> the one unique thing on that page is the archive-copier option, that is what should be abstracted out\
<nickrud> speaking of wanting to run all over the wiki ...
<nickrud> except I've tripped while running often enough
<Madpilot> heh
<Madpilot> I'm sure SteveMyers means well, but he really, really needs to coordinate some of his work with what's already in the wiki...
<nickrud> :)
<nickrud> I really want to do do something usefull with the wiki, but, it can be hard to see how to coordinate with what's there
<Madpilot> it turns out we now have some dailup modem info appearing on THREE seperate and different wiki pages; have a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems
<nickrud> I look towards dapper, and a 3 or so year stable thing to write about
<nickrud> heh
<nickrud> so, who knows all those modems? not me
<Madpilot> I'm actually going to fire off an email to the doc-list later; someone who actually knows modems is going to have to clean that whole area up
<Madpilot> I've used broadband for 5+ years now, and never had to set up a dailup modem on Linux...
<nickrud> I have, too often, but, I had enough knowledge (luck, if you consider the hardware) to use a basic serial modem
<nickrud> but, I see your point in general. 
<nickrud> it's not just modems, it's the video card issues I see on ubuntu over and over again, and other hardware issues
<Madpilot> there are lots of winmodems in the world... :(
<nickrud> I ran up against that again tonight, and fell flat. 
<Madpilot> graphics cards? y
<Madpilot> yeah. I've been lucky, my ATI "just worked" with the fglrx drivers
<nickrud> 3fdx rules ;)
<nickrud> but, seriously
<Madpilot> <grin> actually, I've been incredibly lucky with hardware - *everything* I've got has worked right away, with a minimum of fiddling or none at all
<nickrud> I've only had a chance to give the faq a quick over view, there's a lot of fleshing out needed
<Madpilot> the FAQ is pretty skeletal... I'm going to wait  until I see the released Breezy FAQ before I start playing with that side of it
<Madpilot> the wiki is enough!
<nickrud> Madpilot, you have had access to useful info, your purchases were guided, I think
<Madpilot> actually, I bought intending to run XP, not Linux
<nickrud> heh, your karma must be fine :)
<Madpilot> I just bought the best I could budget for, read lots of reviews, and was actually pretty conservative
<nickrud> a sec, the cat's on the keyboard
<nickrud> Anyhoo, I do want to help with useful docs over the long haul. 
<nickrud> And, I can be extremely ruthless, when it comes to culling bad writing
<Madpilot> good
<nickrud> But, I am not so arrogant to think I know how things work. 
<Madpilot> yeah, I hear you
<nickrud> So, I guess I'm about at where the wiki is now, an amorphous mess
<Madpilot> I've only been using Linux at all since May this year, so I'm very, very cautious about what I write & edit
<nickrud> Well
<nickrud> I am in the midst of fixing your addendum to CronHowto, actually
* Madpilot can't remember what he changed on CronHowto...
<Madpilot> probably just typos & formatting?
<nickrud> no, you pointed out that anacron is in universe; it's actually a fundamental part of ubuntu-desktop
<nickrud> in main
<nickrud> ;P
<Madpilot> I don't think I changed that, I think it's a hangover from Warty when the doc was first written
<nickrud> I only mention it because I made a fool of myself on #ubuntu, and had to re-educate myself
<nickrud> and I've been using debian for almost 5 years; I dont' have newness as an honest reason
<nickrud> and, in case I've not made myself clear: Your work has been useful to me
<Madpilot> glad to hear that
<nickrud> So.
<Madpilot> I've basically been working on the docs that I've actually used, or building the ones that I wish I'd been able to read
<nickrud> lol, what other reason is there to write docs
<Madpilot> for volunteer doc maintainers? it seems to be the only good reason!
<nickrud> you won't get any other perks, trust me, I did this 20 years agoi
<Madpilot> there's always ego ;)
<nickrud> and, now and then, a beer
<nickrud> of course, if you doc your work, it may get you a decent job down the line. Not a bad goal.
* Burgundavia is actually installing something using Autopackage
<Burgundavia> so far, I am not really that impressed
<ajmitch__> don't mention autopackage to mdz
<ajmitch__> it's like a red flag
<Burgundavia> I couldn't find a .deb for SCOURGE and it wouldn't build from sourced
<Burgundavia> ajmitch__, aside from the obivious, anything specific that mdz hates?
<ajmitch__> not that I recall
<ajmitch__> but we're not going to put it in universe anytime soon, afaik :)
<Burgundavia> the lack of integration with .deb is kind of scary
<Burgundavia> what if we hacked it so that it would install into /opt?
<Burgundavia> ok, no I am seriously not impressed
<Burgundavia> if it integrated with apt, then I might be more interested
<ajmitch__> I'd be scared
<Burgundavia> there is a use case
<ajmitch__> sure
<ajmitch__> binary software distributed by others
<ajmitch__> but the most common will be users wanting crack of the day
<ajmitch__> and screwing up their ubuntu system
<ajmitch__> and then filing bugs in bz/malone about it
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> the other use case is stuff that isn't there yet
<Burgundavia> such as scourge
<mdke> morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi mdke
<mdke> has SteveMyers come in yet?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not if he uses that nic, not while iv been here, no
<mdke> no idea about his nick
<Madpilot> mdke: you've been tracking his changes in the wiki too, huh?
<mdke> not really
<mdke> i subscribe to UserDocumentation though
<mdke> i left a message on his homepage the other day and saw that corey left one yesterday
<mdke> he has deleted them both however and is still not commenting his changes :/
<Madpilot> I've also left message on a couple of the pages he's done
<Madpilot> *messages, rather
<Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SettingUpModems  <-- most noticably on here
<mdke> are his changes very bad?
<Madpilot> not really bad, mostly he's either duplicating pages that already exist or creating seperate pages for stuff that should be added to existing pages
<Madpilot> and editing is not his strong point
<mdke> damn
<Madpilot> I had a quick search of the Ubuntu forums for his name, but came up blank there
<mdke> he's a forum user I guess and is just placing howtos on the wiki without checking if they already exist
<Madpilot> and some of the howtos he's dumping are pretty rough still
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> i'm gonna clean up that postfix one now
<Madpilot> If you can have a go at the lm-sensors one, please do. I've done a bunch of cleanup and additions there, but it's still rough
<mdke> nah
<Madpilot> plus he misspelled 'sensors' as 'censors' in the original title... oops
<mdke> lol
<mdke> damn
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol Madpilot. ouch.
<Madpilot> on his userpage, he talks about some 'official' team to get the Forum howtos into the wiki - I haven't heard anything about that via the mailing list - just how official is this?
<mdke> sort of
<mdke> there is no team that I am aware of, but we tried to get an initiative to get the two working better together
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum
<mdke> jeez that postfix guide sucks balls
<Madpilot> right - except that one of the first and messiest things SteveMyer did was tear that forum-wiki page apart and dump all the draft-copy howtos out into the regular wiki
<Madpilot> Corey reverted it a few hours ago...
<mdke> okay...
<mdke> what can we do?
<mdke> we need to get dialogue going with the forum users
<mdke> i might post a message
<mdke> erm
<mdke> Steve Myers has the following as his forum post signature
<mdke> # Bahamut Wiki Publisher For : Ubuntu Forums
<Madpilot> on his wiki userpage he describes himself as "Ubuntu Forum staff"
<Madpilot> what is 'Bahamut', anyway?
<mdke> a user
<Madpilot> ah
<mdke> he's not forum staff though
<mdke> weird
<Madpilot> he's 21 - delusions of grandeur? j/k
<mdke> possibly
<mdke> he is scary lookin
<ajmitch__> heh
<Madpilot> still can't find his name in the Forum - got a URL?
* Kamping_Kaiser looks at wiki page
<mdke> i'll email him privately
<ajmitch__> mdke: don't be biased against those of us who look scary ;)
<mdke> nah, just kidding
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<mdke> http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=14347
<Madpilot> I think that the forum search doesn't search usenames...
<mdke> ok i'll email him and we'll see what happens
* mdke prides himself on his diplomacy
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders whta the deal with this steve bloke is anyway... is he not doing stuff to standard?
<Madpilot> get him to join the doc mailing list, so that at least we've got a contact point...
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: he's mostly been dumping stuff into the main wiki that should still be in the draft pages, so it's really roughly written
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, right. :| *goes to read about wiki and avoid making another dumper*
<Madpilot> and some of it doesn't seem current, and there's also a lot of stuff that we're not supposed to encourage, like running as root...
<Kamping_Kaiser> so all round not good?
<Madpilot> not edited, more than not good
<Kamping_Kaiser> mmmm. ok. 
<mdke> we are going to have to document some guidelines for wiki posting
<mdke> and thing about access control for UserDocumentation
<mdke> if we are serious about the wiki being a documentation resource
<Madpilot> I'm all for making edit comments mandatory, as a first step
<mdke> you'll have to pay someone to hack the code
<mdke> or convince someone else to pay
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> there are a few quite leet moin/python hackers around who we could approach I guess
<ajmitch__> python is simple
<ajmitch__> hacking moin probably not quite so simple, but manageable
<mdke> ;)
<Madpilot> we've talked about doing mandatory comments on the mailing list, after the last round of 'overenthusiastic new person goes berserk' a few months ago...
<mdke> yes
<mdke> Madpilot, but the point is that there is no option to do that, unless you rewrite some of the wiki software
<mdke> it's all very well being agreed on it, but someone needs to do it
<Madpilot> yeah... but at least we can keep the idea in circulation... ;)
<mdke> sure
<mdke> ok i'm starting this page, please leave thoughts and ideas
<mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftWikiRules
<Madpilot> looks pretty complete already...
<mdke> i copied them out of my email to Steve
<Madpilot> heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: so catagory cleanup is all the unfinished pages? not just stuff that people find on the wiki and think needs work?
<Madpilot> Kamping_Kaiser: Cleanup seems to be both; unfinished = needs work, anyway...
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thanks
<Madpilot> good night/morning/whatever, all. need sleep...
<mdke> we could turn that page into a general guide to the wiki
<mdke> rather than "rules"
<Madpilot> your DraftWikiRules one? yes...
<Kamping_Kaiser> later Madpilot. see you then then :)
* ajmitch__ has a bad habit of not writing wiki comments since most of his changes are to MOTU status pages
<Kamping_Kaiser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryDocteam <-  is that this docteam? thats a long list
<mdke> ajmitch__, the guidelines would be mainly for docs as i see it
<ajmitch__> right
<mdke> hi zyga 
<zyga> :)
<mdke> couple of points to make straight away
<mdke> the wiki aims to be new user friendly
<mdke> so where it isn't, we need to improve that
<mdke> and we'd be glad of your help
<zyga> wiki is wrong at the start
<zyga> hello Yagisan 
<Yagisan> hello zyga
<zyga> wiki is BIG
<mdke> wrongt?
<zyga> it is overwhelming IMHO
<mdke> zyga, have you looked at UserDocumentation?
<mdke> it is structured in a way to make it accessible
<zyga> mdke: no, I didn't even know it exists - neither will random new users probably - checking 
<mdke> the wiki is searchable, and so is that page
<mdke> zyga, it is the first and most prominent link on the front page of the wiki
<Yagisan> zyga: The wiki just needs to be promoted better
<mdke> we can't do much better than that
<zyga> mdke: mmm 
<mdke> a massive bold link at the top of the front page of the wiki...
<Yagisan> zyga: what are the main user issues you see ?
<zyga> mdke: it looks better than the last time I've checked
<mdke> zyga, ok. we'd be glad of your help in improving it, pls join the docteam mailing list if you are interested
<mdke> the second point I wanted to make
<mdke> have you seen the ("official") Ubuntu starter guide?
<Yagisan> zyga: I poped my 70 year old parents-in-law in front of Ubuntu boxes (in a foreign language) and they didn't have trouble ?
<zyga> that page should be a homepage :)
<zyga> Yagisan: I poped mine mom and dad and they did have some issues 
<zyga> Yagisan: quite minor though
<zyga> but the 1) didn't want to play movies initially (they did want that later)
<mdke> the starter guide can be accessed in breezy by clicking System -> Help, then clicking on the starter guide
<zyga> 2) didn't want to interface with their inexisting windows boxes
<mdke> you will find answers to common tasks there
<Yagisan> zyga: then the problem isn't actually New Users but rather "medium-advanced" Windows users
<zyga> Yagisan: true
<zyga> Yagisan: yet they might be a massive amount of actuall converts
<Yagisan> that lack the interest to distinguish that Ubuntu isn't Windows
<zyga> IMHO we either get totally new users or medium advanced that are not afraid to change their os
<mdke> anyhow
<mdke> regardless of that
<mdke> please feel free to make any suggestions about improving docs on our mailing list
<zyga> mdke: I'll read the archives first
<Yagisan> Is there a table of Ubuntu/Windows equivalents anyware ?
<zyga> Yagisan: I've seen something like that some time ago
<Yagisan> that might be more of what you are after zyga
<zyga> Yagisan: I cannot remember the name though
<Kamping_Kaiser> Yagisan: lotsof them, just i cant find any up to date ones
<zyga> Yagisan: I'm not after anything :) but answering a simple question in #ubuntu shows common issues
<Yagisan> zyga: eg if you burned cd's using nero, heres how to do it in k3b
<mdke> zyga, try the starter guide, you should find it has most of those answers
<mdke> gtg now
<Kamping_Kaiser> later mdke
<Yagisan> mdke: see you
* zyga knows his way around distros, thanks guys :)
* zyga just wanted to know how to help people in #ubuntu better
<mdke> we can't force them to read docs
<mdke> but we can help to make things as obvious as possible
<zyga> mdke: next time I'll point users to that page, thanks
<mdke> cool
<mdke> for breezy, they will have that guide too
<Yagisan> mdke: are you talking about http://ubuntuguide.org/ ?
<mdke> no
<Yagisan> good
<mdke> we took that and hacked it up
<mdke> and made this
<Yagisan> but that is top of googles hits
<mdke> well, we'll publish ours and people can choose
<zyga> mdke: this? :)
<zyga> mdke: is there any fixed uguide then/
<mdke> this = our ("official") guide
<zyga> guide.ubuntu.com would be lovely
<Yagisan> mdke: where can I see this ?
<mdke> dude
<mdke> system -> Help -> starter guide
<mdke> if you have Breezy
<zyga> heh
* zyga got used to avoid clicking on any help button after his years of experience with 'usefull docs'
<zyga> thanks mdke
* Yagisan realises he doesn't actually have it installed =-O
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<zyga> how about a system->help submenu
<zyga> :)
<Yagisan> so ahh - what package should I install to get this guide :-[
<zyga> Yagisan: ubuntu-docs
<zyga> arhhh
* zyga really really hopes that breezy will get after-release i18n upgrades
<zyga> a quote from the guide
<zyga> Co znaczy sowo Ubuntu?
<zyga>     Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. To find out more, visit http://www.ubuntu.com
<zyga> 'what does ubuntu mean'
<zyga> 'yada yada yada, english stuff'
<mdke> i hope so too
<zyga> helpfull ;-)
<mdke> go translate!
<zyga> mdke: I do :)
<zyga> hmm 
<mdke> what language?
<zyga> AFAIR ubuntu-docs was translated already, strange
<zyga> mdke: pl
<zyga> mdke: launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki/translations
<zyga> mdke: launchpad.net/people/zkrynicki/+translations
<zyga> that is
<mdke> polish is about 10% done
<mdke> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide
<zyga> ah, different package then
* zyga thinks that .desktop files suck l10n wise ;/
<zyga> The following admonitions will be found throughout the book:
<zyga> what does 'admonitions' mean??
<zyga> from, faqguide.xml:180(emphasis)
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'admonish' usualy means to 'tell off'
<Yagisan> does ubuntu-docs require yelp to show up ?
* Kamping_Kaiser is still trying to his head around svn, docbook and other doc-team things
<zyga> Kamping_Kaiser: so basically things to be wary about
<Kamping_Kaiser> Yagisan: yes, i think it does
<Yagisan> Kamping_Kaiser: heh - I removed that and the 64 bit firefox from my system - that explains why I can't see it even after putting on ubuntu-docs
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> iirc yelp is used to display the docs. t
<Kamping_Kaiser> -t
* Kamping_Kaiser shakes hand out - its sore from clicking the down arrown in FF so much reading the wiki ;D
<mdke> best check dictionary.com or something for admonitions, i don't think it means that
<mdke> ah yeah it does
<mdke> warnings
<zyga> mdke: that word should be removed from the docs IMHO 
<Kamping_Kaiser> how much email goes through the ubuntu-doc-commit list? im guesing not much (judging by hte files updated by svn), but is it anything like breezy-changes ?
<mdke> no
<mdke> zyga, yes I agree, please file a bug
<mdke> it is not consistent with the docteam styleguide
<zyga> mdke: okay
<zyga> mdke: bugzilla or malone?
* zyga never really knows where
<mdke> bugzilla
<mdke> under documentation
<jsgotangco> mdke, nice one on draftwikiguide maybe when its done we can incorporate it on the styleguide and eventually make it a docmanual
<mdke> jsgotangco, nice idea
<mdke> i think we should make it a general help page on the wiki
<mdke> add some things about markup and so on
<jsgotangco> yeah i was thinking to add that on the current styleguide
<jsgotangco> the gdp has a bigger manual like that
<jsgotangco> the styleguide is just a chapter of sorts
<mdke> the thing is
<mdke> the styleguide has kinda an overreaching scope
<mdke> it applies to all our docs
<jsgotangco> you suggest to limit the scope?
<mdke> whereas the wiki guide would just be for the wiki and wouldn't apply to (eg) books
<jsgotangco> true
<mdke> no i don't suggest limiting the scope, just to keep em separate
<mdke> and reference the styleguide in the wiki page
<jsgotangco> mmm
<jsgotangco> have you seen this
<jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamPlansDapper
<mdke> yes
<mdke> here is my opinion
<jsgotangco> 'tis too early
<mdke> what in god's name is the point of a BOF at UBZ for the docteam, when there is gonna be one person there?
<jsgotangco> its not even a BOF rob just wrote that stuff
<mdke> ah ok
<mdke> well it is something we can talk about at a meeting
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mdke> we will need to start sorting ourselves out soon
<jsgotangco> yes
<mdke> hey ho
<mdke> we'll be ok
<jsgotangco> oh of course =)
<jsgotangco> we've been through this before hehe
<mdke> sure
<jsgotangco> i'll just finish the release notes in a few days
<mdke> cool
<jsgotangco> i'll probably remove known issues as fabbione commented on removing the only one written at the moment
<mdke> okay
<jsgotangco> hi mpt
<mpt> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> mdke, you still around?
<jsgotangco> n1c0las, hi
<n1c0las> hi
<n1c0las> How is it going here
<jsgotangco> ahh not so much its a weeekend
<n1c0las> hmm, I would expect to see more traffic then :)
<jsgotangco> not on a sunday really
<n1c0las> how was the DocTeam meeting last friday? 
<jsgotangco> oh i came in late and no one came
<n1c0las> sorry to hear that
<n1c0las> I also saw there was no agenda
<n1c0las> although the discussion on the list is an interesting one, re: docs management post freeze
<jsgotangco> its my fault i didnt update the agenda its my responsibility
<jsgotangco> but we'll manage those things a few days after release =)
<n1c0las> I know that some members of the dutch team will do a huge translation effort in about a month on a weekend
<jsgotangco> mmm that's nice
<n1c0las> for now I am familiaring myself with Breezy
<jsgotangco> the translations are still going in
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi n1c0las
<n1c0las> I dist-upgraded my laptop yesterday
<n1c0las> and am now preparing a presentation I need to give in two weeks
<n1c0las> Hi Kamping_Kaiser
<jsgotangco> n1c0las, neat
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<n1c0las> Seveas and I spend some time together today to talk a bit about it.
<n1c0las> He lives about an hour drive fromme.
<jsgotangco> wow
<n1c0las> He send me some presentation examples from himself and others
<n1c0las> Yeaj, it is fun to chat with someone and find out he lives close by :)
<jsgotangco> have you checked out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations
<n1c0las> Yep. I got some neat examples from there
<n1c0las> I also will use the new FAQ from Mark to explain to people why Ubuntu is and will always be free
<n1c0las> Of course we dutch like stuff free :)
<n1c0las> When the presentation is ready I can put it up there as well.
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. dont we all?
<mvirkkil> I've been thinking about an interactive help system which would be based on xmmp (the jabber protocol). Thoughts?
<claude> hi
<claude> does someone know if faqguide-fr has still a chance to be part of breezy ?
<claude> i finished translation on Tuesday
<claude> #@&%* of freeze :(
<mdke> claude, no chance to have it in for release, but i will battle hard on your (and others') behalf to get an update in
<claude> mdke, thanks :)
<claude> maybe it will imply to include them in lang-packs ?
<mdke> claude, not for breezy I'm afraid
<mdke> hopefully for dapper
<claude> maybe we'll block any translation on ubuntu-docs in our French team until a solution is found
<mdke> claude, if you want to. But i thought you said you'd finished translation?
<claude> yes, for this time it's finished
<mdke> this question is the top of my todo list for now anyhow
<claude> i know you'll do your best :)
<mdke> i am quite confident
<claude> do you think my proposal of not freezing documentation has a chance to be accepted ?
<mdke> no
<mdke> i hope not :)
<mdke> we need to freeze documentation otherwise translation cannot be done properly
<mdke> and for a number of other reasons
<mdke> e.g. making sure bugs are fixed and don't break the release
<claude> bugs in documentation ?
<mdke> sure
<mdke> there have been loads of bugs in ubuntu-docs
<claude> and freeze did not help ;-)
<mdke> claude, it helped us fix them in time for the release
<claude> i think there are still some
<claude> i understand that new docs should not be delvelopped
<claude> but i think it's a pity that current errors cannot be corrected after freeze
<mdke> well, they should be corrected before freeze
<mdke> that is why we have several statuses for docs
<claude> you know it's impossible to release entirely bug free docs
<mdke> true
<mdke> so why try?
<mpt> Does anyone have a screenshot of Adept handy?
<mdke> we do our best
<mpt> I can't find one even on Adept's own site
<mdke> mpt, no, why?
<mpt> I'm just interested in seeing its design, that's all
<claude> mdke, i only think that freeze concept should not apply to documentation correction
<claude> but maybe i need some nore thinking :)
<claude> s/nore/more
<mdke> mpt, better install it :D
<mdke> claude, yeah, we all need to think about it
<claude> mdke, like we do for translation with lang-packs
<mdke> anyhow, i'll do my best on the translation
<mdke> claude, translation is different IMO
* mdke goes to bed
<mpt> mdke, yeah, if I had Ubuntu running I would
<mpt> goodnight
<mdke> mpt, there must be a screenshot around somewhere
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-15
<jsgotangco> hi all
<Burgundavia> salut
<jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> i finally got to nail a job
<Burgundavia> cool
* Burgundavia did basically nothing today
<Burgundavia> nor did I do anything yesterday
<jsgotangco> hmm i guess quicktour isn't going in
<Burgundavia> not going to get shipped, at any rate
<jsgotangco> so hows your job at userful
<Burgundavia> good
<Burgundavia> next week we get to listen in on the other guys
<jsgotangco> oh i'll be working at gametel asia pacific
<Burgundavia> this indefinte?
<jsgotangco> mmm?
<ajmitch__> jsgotangco: great, what's the job?
<jsgotangco> pig out on 10 rhel servers
<ajmitch__> yay
<ajmitch__> this the one in brisbane?
<jsgotangco> yes
<ajmitch__> great
<ajmitch__> I'll have someone else in brisbane to visit ;)
<jsgotangco> the plan is to move some of the servers in brisbane to manila and some from brisbane to sydney
<jsgotangco> and increase the server presene in manila
<ajmitch__> ok
<jsgotangco> so most of the people playing with the mobile phones will be getting their content either from manila, brisbane or sydney
<ajmitch__> so you'll be spending more time in manila eventually
<jsgotangco> yes but i'll be staying in bribane for a bit
<jsgotangco> the contact center will also be relocated in manila
<jsgotangco> heh at least i get to play around with real installations before taking that rhce exam
<jsgotangco> hey rob^ 
<jsgotangco> hi Liz
<Liz> hi jsgotangco `
<Liz> how are you?
<jsgotangco> im doing well its great and you?
<Liz> good here too thanks..
<Liz> nearly time for breezy to go live then
<ajmitch__> almost
<jsgotangco> well there are no showstoppers atm
<Liz> which is good
<Liz> ive read all the posts 
<Liz> sorry i havent offered more practical help with the docs
<jsgotangco> Liz, no worries, we'll fix that in the coming months
<Liz> lol..im sure
<Liz> fingers crossed i move soon
<Liz> and 3 more weeks till exams..adn the end of this semester
<ajmitch__> move where? :)
<Liz> into our own place..we share right now..and im tired of relatives just showing up and staying 
<Liz> costing me a fortune
<Liz> thats my housemates relatives
<Liz> not mine
<ajmitch__> right
<mvirkkil> Thoghts and feedback on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveHelp
<Madpilot> mvirkkil: looks interesting
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i've read that earlier
<mvirkkil> jsgotangco: Where?
<jsgotangco> i see changes in the wiki
<jsgotangco> hehe
<mvirkkil> Any feedback?
<mvirkkil> jsgotangco: Ah, I do the same thing :)
<jsgotangco> the IM client is great, similar to what Y!M does
<mvirkkil> jsgotangco: I don't follow
<jsgotangco> the Y!M client in windows has the option of turning on its help bot
<jsgotangco> and it appears as an online friend
<mvirkkil> Cool, haven't heard about that.
<mvirkkil> Well, basically that's exactly my idea.
<mvirkkil> Is there someone I should contact for more feedback before starting to work on it?
<jsgotangco> try mpt he's been doing helpfulhelp
<mvirkkil> ok.
<jsgotangco> mdke, the italian team is awsome, the wikis are getting updated every minute
<mdke> phew
<mdke> they were supposed to do it yesterday :D
<jsgotangco> preparing for breezy?
<mdke> jsgotangco, yes we are releasing our new website today
<jsgotangco> wow that's why the redirects
<mdke> yes
<mdke> the redirect page should explain that
<mdke> i wanted to get on planet to announce it, but jdub is travelling I think
<jsgotangco> its this in a dedicated server?
<mdke> no, it's on matthias' server
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> i should start editing our server
<mvirkkil> jsgotangco: Does mpt irc?
<jsgotangco> mvirkkil, yes
<jsgotangco> i think he's in brazil atm
<jsgotangco> should be online anytime
<mvirkkil> jsgotangco: Just wondering because /whowas mpt didn't return anything.
<jsgotangco> ahh he's not online then
<jsgotangco> you can email the doc list and if he finds it interesting he'll probably respond
<mvirkkil> ok
<Liz> bedtime
<Liz> nite all
<tHirso> Hey, can anyone help me? ive just burned ubuntu 5.10(live+cd install) to a cd, when im doing the base system installation, it stays for a while at 6% taking some time to retreive a few items and then goes to 27% and i get an error.Is there anyone i can know if its the cd or if its the .iso that is corrupt or sth?
<spayne> tHirso: #ubuntu please
<Madpilot> what's happened to the DraftWikiRules page that was created a couple of days ago?
#ubuntu-doc 2005-10-16
<jsgotangco> brb
<jsgotangco> mmm the oem mode actually works
<jsgotangco> hi robitaille
<robitaille> hello jsgotangco 
<robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mylene_Farmer   sigh.   why people put useless crap on the wiki.  But cannot delete it since that person is linking to it from his wiki page
<HrdwrBob> er yes you can
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<robitaille> but I didn't know she was born in Montreal... I always thought she was from France (I have a couple of CD from her)
<robitaille> yes I can...but it's not very polite :)
<HrdwrBob> no, but creating wiki pages for random french/canadian singers
<jsgotangco> lol
<HrdwrBob> is not really the purpose
* robitaille is too nice tonight on this canadian thanksgiving day :)
<jsgotangco> unless she actually uses ubuntu
<HrdwrBob> yeah
<HrdwrBob> if she endorses ubuntu, maybe L(
<HrdwrBob> :)
<robitaille> well, mylene farmer + linux (or Ubuntu) in Google doesn't turn up anything interesting
<jsgotangco> lol
<ajmitch_> get the page deleted :)
<ajmitch_> it's certainly WikiSpam
* jsgotangco doesn't even know mylene farmer
<jsgotangco> Asia Carrera is more likely to use ubuntu
<robitaille> jsgotangco,  http://www.famousbabes.com/myleneF/mylene.htm  
<jsgotangco>  Granted, the first impression you get of Mylene can be quite frightening. She's like the poster girl for New Age artists with a psychosexual death obsession. The upside is that it's allowed her to appear completely naked in a number of her music videos.
<robitaille> for the people going to UBZ, be very careful of girls in Montreal :)
<ajmitch_> sounds like an ubuntu user
<jsgotangco> oh i'll taker her anytime instead of celine dion
<jsgotangco> robitaille: do they bite?
<robitaille> jsgotangco, they can :)
<robitaille> why do you think I left town?
<robitaille> (this conversation is going nowhere...maybe I should delete the wiki page and be done with it)
<robitaille> and the wiki page is gone...
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> ok and i read further on francophone belles biting
<HrdwrBob> robitaille: ooer
<HrdwrBob> I think I will have to go to UBZ now
<jsgotangco> jbailey!!!
<jbailey> jsgotangco!!!
<jsgotangco> so you finally came out from hibernation....
<jsgotangco> (with an upload vengeance)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. sure did
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Yeah, sorry about keeping it in my local tree.
<jbailey> It was just in so many states where it didn't work.
<jbailey> So I didn't want to commit those.
<jbailey> I've figured out what the tree should look like on the trunk, though.
<jsgotangco> its alright, im almost done with the relesae notes as well
<jbailey> Ah, cool.
<Kamping_Kaiser> can i ask about doing the diffs using svn, i have the wiki bookmarked (so will have a play with it), but is that the stock instructions? or are there some others (i dont mind particularly, i almost feel like reading a man page)
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, that's as easy as you can get
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. ill go have some svn fun :)
<jsgotangco> jbailey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseNotes is updated
<jbailey> jsgotangco: Did we figure out what to do with them now? =)
<jsgotangco> jbailey, err can you still upload?
<jsgotangco> the doc doesn't have entities
<jbailey> Which doc?
<jbailey> I checked them all, none of them seemed to error.
<jsgotangco> breezy-release-notes.xml
<jbailey> Is that on the branch?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> gnome/releasenotes/C
<jbailey> Is there an OMF to go with it?
<jsgotangco> NOT YET
<jsgotangco> im not in my work machine =(
<jsgotangco> it seems we have no known issues?
<jbailey> Eh?  No idea.
<jsgotangco> (well no devs seem to want to write one)
<jsgotangco> oh well i'll delete the section then
<jsgotangco> (let them feel the wrath of users spamming bugzilla)
<jbailey> Ayup
<Kamping_Kaiser> does anyone know how long untill the svn /branches/breezy is merged into /trunk?
<jbailey> Kamping_Kaiser: I will hack on that probably on Friday.
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, in a few days =)
<jsgotangco> it'll be fun
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok :) thanks ppl. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> fun? how fun can it be :O
<jbailey> jsgotangco: I'll write something up to the list a bit later today talking about my thoughts on it.
<jsgotangco> sure
<jsgotangco> jbailey, its like we have a team atm
<jsgotangco> =(
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0?
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, don't worry hehe
<jsgotangco> its just really quite before release; we'll fix that in a few days
<Kamping_Kaiser> mmm. im waiting to find out how this works. im getting bits and pieces of info, but pity i didnt join the list (and jump in here) while stuff was still going on 
* Kamping_Kaiser will wind up with half the wiki bookmarked if he doesnt watch himself :|
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser, don't worry after every release, we always do a fresh start
<jsgotangco> perfect tme to jump in
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. great :) ill make myself available to be at meetings/whatever ( i asume you catch up here?)
<jsgotangco> ubuntu-meeting
<jsgotangco> i always make the annoucement
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. ill keep an eye out thanks :)
<mdke> jbailey, nice work on -docs
<mdke> jbailey, i don't know if you can do anything about this, but inter-document links aren't working properly. They don't point to the particular question that they should be linking to, but rather just link to the top of the relevant section that the question is in.
<jsgotangco> hi mdke 
<jbailey> mdke: I wouldn't count that as release critical enough to try at this point.
<jbailey> mdke: I want to do one more upload, which is the release notes with an OMF file and then send her off.
* jsgotangco slaves that now
<jsgotangco> just finishing the edubuntu RC annoucement
<mdke> jbailey, it is quite critical I guess because it means that many of the answers in the document don't fully explain how to do something (as they cross refer to a previous answer), but again, your call.
<mdke> hiya jsgotangco 
<mdke> maybe the problem is due to yelp
<mdke> who knows
<jsgotangco> i thought of something post breezy
<jsgotangco> make a table of whatever is borked with the links in yelp
<jsgotangco> and fix it (just a few omfs really)
<jbailey> jsgotangco: The trick will be to file all of yelp's bugs that we come across.
<jbailey> Then seb and I can fix them.
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> jsgotangco, what happened to the css for about-ubuntu?
<jbailey> jsgotangco: It's there...
* jsgotangco looks at jbailey
<mdke> no, it's there
<mdke> i mean, what happened to it, as in, did anyone do any work on it to make it look nice?
* jsgotangco looks at jbailey again
<jbailey> mdke: No.
<mdke> that is clearly not jbailey's job
<mdke> it was our job
<jbailey> I had said I was going to try.
<mdke> ahh
<jbailey> But I didn't come up with any brilliant ideas that still allowed the source to be generated from the about ubuntu page.
<jbailey> My conclusion is mostly that it shouldn't be the about ubuntu page.
<jsgotangco> i was busy with edubuntu and the ubuntu release notes but we just don't have enough time really
<jbailey> It should be something sexy and snazzy that is unrelated.
<mdke> yeah
<mdke> jbailey, well i think it shouldn't be a local page at all... but since it is there...
<mdke> we needed to get henrik on it
<jbailey> Needs to be a local page -
<jbailey> Not all machines are network connected =)
<jsgotangco> i agree
<mdke> jbailey, yes but, at risk of going over old arguments, firefox is a webbrowser
<jbailey> Which can be used to view local documents. =)
<jbailey> I do it all the time.
<mdke> you're a developer
<mdke> oh well
<jbailey> Dude, I know of no better way to get to the system documentation.
<jsgotangco> i agree
<jbailey> yelp sucks for viewing HTML docs.
<mdke> no need to rack this argument up again
<mdke> the fact is, the home page is about-ubuntu
<mdke> how about making the font smaller?
<jbailey> mdke: To win my support on this, we need to simply have a better solution for viewing the local html docs.  
<jbailey> mdke: I don't really care what that solution is. =)  But at that point I'll buy it. =)
<mdke> sure
<mdke> but my point is, that for this release we are stuck with that doc as the homepage
<jbailey> Yup
<mdke> how about making the font smaller?
<mdke> it is a bit much to get the Ubuntu top bar I guess... we should have done that earlier :/
<jsgotangco> mdke, if im still awake in a few hours, i'll be happy to just embed the css like the quicktour..im doing 3 things at the same time atm and doing screenshots for the quicktour
<jbailey> I would love to make the font smaller, and float the image to the top right.
<jbailey> jsgotangco: I can do these things if it's clear what I'm to do. =)
<jbailey> Right now I think I need to go get lunch. =)
<jbailey> Breakfast was 5 hours ago...
* jbailey is a wimp when it comes to food.
<mdke> i don't mind having a look now
<jsgotangco> and i need to sleep heh
<jbailey> Cool.
<jbailey> I've committed everything of mine to the branch, so it's current to the package.
<mdke> if we are really clever we could put the Ubuntu top bar in
<mdke> ubuntu-nl have a  pure css version of the top bar iirc
<jbailey> Anyone mind if I run off for 30m or so?
<mdke> nope
<jbailey> 'k. =)
<mdke> how about asking henrik about this issue, jsgotangco ?
<mdke> ok i give up
<mdke> jbailey, feel free to make the font smaller though if you like (font-size:10pt; in body in aboutubuntu.css?)
* mdke goes home
<jbailey> mdke: What are you giving up on?
<jbailey> I'm trying to figure out what can be done with the Ubuntu logo.
<Kinnison> ciao
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-10
<mantiena-baltix> Hi all
<Plug> nixternal: should comments on your blog provide some kind of "yes, that succeeded" notification?
<nixternal> i would think
<Plug> maybe I failed the maths test
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> if it was 7x9, the script is wrong
<Plug> its a bit over the top, isn't it?
<Plug> the new one is 7x6+8=
<nixternal> i need to remove it anyways..you are the 2nd person in less than 24 hours with a problem
<nixternal> lol
<Plug> thats 50, give or take
<nixternal> i was going to do trig...gladd i didn't
<nixternal> rofl
<Plug> same result
<Plug> nothing ends up on the page
<Plug> is it in some moderation queue?
<nixternal> haha...
<nixternal> wait
<nixternal> you are considered spam
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> gahahahha
<nixternal> i lovey our comment!
<Plug> O RLY?
<nixternal> i don't know how to reply to that
<nixternal> there was a reason to it, but i don't want my reply to sound sarcastic, because i want to have some fun with it
<nixternal> i thing you will enjoy the reply ;)
<Plug> I'm just being a pedant, one blog at a time :)
<nixternal> hahah
<nixternal> get um all
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-11
<Madpilot> so, does this whole "Iceweasel" stupidity mean that someone has to go thru our docs for Edgy with "s/Firefox/Iceweasel"?
<mdke_> what is the outcome of that?
<mdke_> they're changing the name?
<Madpilot> Debian is, because MozCorp is being shirty about their trademarsk
<Madpilot> trademarks, even
<mdke_> and is Ubuntu going to too?
<Madpilot> apparently
<mdke_> blimey
<Madpilot> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 <-- original Deb bug report
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 354622 in firefox "Using Firefox as the app name without official branding is still" [Serious,Open]  
<Madpilot> http://lwn.net/Articles/200301/ <-- scroll down to "The Return of Iceweasel"
<mdke_> what did mdz say about it?
<poningru> uh...
<poningru> frack
<poningru> hold on
<poningru> we are not changing the name btw
<poningru> looking for the log
<poningru> hold on
* Madpilot is of the opinion that "WeRipOffOpera" is a better name for Firefox, anyway ;)
<poningru> ouch
<mdke_> is mdz leaving btw? I saw a job advert which disturbed me
<poningru> arr?
<poningru> Oct 05 03:14:11 <iwj> mdz: So just to be clear, I should arrange for it to be called `firefox' unless I hear from you otherwise ?
<mdke_> http://www.ubuntu.com/employment#head-0d9f9070bb7c0217fde8142f9d5aed03f3e75554
<poningru> wtf
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> interesting
<Burgundavia> I don't think that is a replacement for mdz
<Burgundavia> remember, mdz is CTO
<poningru> hmm true
<poningru> perhaps he will move toward more managerial, than hands on?
<mdke_> yes, that sounds exactly right
<poningru> can someone from the doc team ask mdz regarding the firefox issue?
<Burgundavia> that might even be someone to work under mdz
<mdke_> poningru: yes, we can do that
<poningru> nn all /me goes off to sleep
<Burgundavia> I need to sleep as well
<Burgundavia> mdke_: I seriously doubt if Ubuntu will change the name
<Burgundavia> however, we might have to ship the official logo
<mdke_> Burgundavia: I agree that it would be odd
<mdke_> I'm not going to worry about it
* mdke_ is pretty screwed with the translations atm
<Burgundavia> well, the doc team pretty much dropped the ball with this release
<Burgundavia> right after being praised by Mark so heavily
<mdke_> we'll just have to make sure the next one is really good
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> I love Mako last night: "Dapper wasn't dapper and Edgy isn't edgy"
<mdke_> haha
<mdke_> so, if I suggest changing the translation mechanism for the next release, please kill me
<mdke_> last firefox changelog - "Change application name to `Firefox', as requested by mdz."
<mdke> nixternal: around?
<nixternal> ya
<mdke> nixternal: got a moment to talk through some translation stuff?
<nixternal> sure
<mdke> ok. Things are a bit complicated
<mdke> we made a small change to the toolchain, which has really mucked stuff up
<nixternal> i kind of seen you laughing at yourself last night about it
<mdke> fortunately, Danilo has written us a script which fixes the problem, but it needs to be included in the translate.sh script
<mdke> brb, phone
<nixternal> k
<mdke> ok. So I've tested the script so far on about-ubuntu, and I think we should give it a bit more testing on more complicated docs
<nixternal> i can grab some of the kubuntu or xubuntu translations, and try it out on a desktop guide
<mdke> I've put it in teamstuff/replace-whatever-its-name-is.py
<mdke> if you fancy trying it, that would be cool. Let's take it easy, no immediate rush, and we will get it right
<nixternal> without a doubt
<mdke> you can see its use in ubuntu/aboutubuntu/translate.sh, the key is that you need a line like that for each xml file 
<mdke> I'll test it on the ubuntu desktopguide and you have a go with kubuntu desk, and we'll compare notes and see if stuff works
<nixternal> ok..i just grabbed the recent svn updates you did...i will look that over
<nixternal> ahh 'teamstuff/replace-doctype-with.py
<nixternal> i see it
<mdke> nixternal: I will try and do some more testing tomorrow, I need to do some other stuff too so I'll get back to you :) thanks a lot for helping
<nixternal> no problem, have fun!
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> mdke: no hurry or nothing, but with the Edubuntu Handbook, would it be ok to add the handbook into the structure?  right now the current handbook doesn't build as it is rather unstructured, but I am working on that..
<mdke> nixternal: which structure? into the repo?
<nixternal> what i could do as it is worked on in their repo, move it into ours, and work on getting it to validate and build correctly..event ually
<nixternal> oh you are here ;)
<nixternal> well, their current structure isn't there..they are just building docbook files
<nixternal> i am trying to set their svn up to mimic ours, so if it gets moved over, there will be minimal work on our part
<nixternal> i recently provided a little structure on their svn server...getting their stuff to validate is giong to be a task right now since it is rather juvenile
<LaserJock> nixternal: fine, I'm here :p
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> do they want it to be in ours?
<nixternal> eventually, yes
<nixternal> I think it belongs in a more stable repo myself, as you never know what may happen with HedgeMages domain or what not
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu doc people need to get with it and get there stuff in the doc team repo
<LaserJock> this is making me tired and cranky
<LaserJock> there's no reason the edubuntu/ dir should not be used
<nixternal> sorry for dragging you in this LaserJock
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> it needs to be done
<nixternal> but you are more Edubuntu then I am
<nixternal> I just want to help them get everything situatied and rocking
<LaserJock> unfortunately jerome and I have had lots going on
<LaserJock> yes, please do
<LaserJock> get it to were it can go into our repo
<nixternal> that is why i have stepped up since i have a little more time available as well
<nixternal> ok, i will continue doing what I am doing then
<LaserJock> and then commit it
<LaserJock> just put it in
<nixternal> and when it is ready for our repo, then i will go forward as long as the ok is there from mdke
<LaserJock> you can harm anything by putting docs into edubuntu/
<LaserJock> *can't
<nixternal> im sure i can harm something ;)
<mdke> if they are keen to work with us, sounds good
<mdke> we should be able to help with validation and building after it is in there
<LaserJock> yeah, I'd rather them put stuff in the repo, even if it isn't complete
<LaserJock> then more people can have a look
<nixternal> so move into the ubuntu doc repo now and validate later then?
<LaserJock> I would like that
<nixternal> with that, then we will need to setup svn accounts for 1 or 2 of them
<LaserJock> I've not even seen the docs
<nixternal> LTSP is the only thing with some meat to it that I can see right now
<LaserJock> well, we can start by manually updating or sending patches
<nixternal> they are all still .xml.old as they haven't been converted from Cookbook to Handbook
<LaserJock> I'd just like to see *something*
<nixternal> I will run that across pygi and hedge then
<nixternal> or you can if you can persuade them ;)
<mdke> nixternal: we'll need to see some of their work before adding commit accounts
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i can link you to their svn if you want to look
<jjesse> hiya nixternal
<nixternal> the .xml is all them so far...
<nixternal> hiya jjesse, didn't even see you pop in
<mdke> ok, but you say the xml is a bit dodgy?
<jjesse> just did 
<nixternal> right now it is
<mdke> why aren't they writing it in a wiki?
<nixternal> they started the cookbook on the wiki...and then they changed from the cookbook to the handbook..that is my understanding
<nixternal> i have only recently jumped in over there since jerome and jordan are so busy
<jjesse> is that edubuntu
<nixternal> ya
<LaserJock> they went from wiki to docbook before the wiki->docbook converter was working
<nixternal> there you go ;)
<mdke> oh well
<nixternal> right now they have a bunch of .xml.old files which are xml, but from the cookbook that haven't been converted or worked on yet, and need to be done
<nixternal> mdke: i have hacked their svn a little bit to start picking up structure, but you can see what i mean by content - handbook/C/ of course - http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook
<nixternal> i think it will be easier if i just add the handbook to the edubuntu/ folder, and then hack the xml code to fit our structure
<mdke> make sure they are all happy with that
<LaserJock> do they seriously only have 23 revisions?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i don't think they have been working on it much
<LaserJock> they must be working in larger chunks too
<LaserJock> well, I wasn't trying to be mean or snotty
<nixternal> i grabbed the repo 2 weeks ago, and did svn up last night, and didn't get one new revision
<nixternal> well, if they read their rules, it says not to ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> I was just thinking if they aren't committing that often then sending a patch to me or you will be pretty easy
<nixternal> very true
<LaserJock> I was thinking if they were doing a commit or 2 each day it might be tough
<nixternal> im glad you picked up on that
<nixternal> that will only sell the fact they don't need commit access just yet
<nixternal> plus, doing it that way, is the way i learned stuff around here as well
<LaserJock> well, HedgeMage at least seems to know what she's doing
<LaserJock> I doubt it'll be hard for them to become members
<nixternal> well, she said she is just not learning docbook
<nixternal> not/now
<nixternal> but she has the svn and working what not down it seems
<LaserJock> but they certainly aren't going to become members if they are working on that seperate repo
<nixternal> she created the branch at least
<nixternal> hehe, speaking of members ;)
<nixternal> man..i have this spray thing in this room and it stinks..it doesn't smell good
<nixternal> it sprays like every 45 minutes...it is starting to remind me of a skunk
<jjesse> time to get anew one 
<jjesse> wow a yankee (baseball) pitcher's plane crashed today into the 38th floor of an apartment building
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> wth?
<jjesse> he's dead
<nixternal> omg
* mdke beds
<nixternal> cory lidle
<nixternal> g'nite mdke
<nixternal> thanks for the pointers with the handbook!
<jjesse> night mdke
<nixternal> ok, so he wasn't in it as it seems
<jjesse> hmm that's not what i just heard from a reporter in new york
<LaserJock> weird
<nixternal> ok..i am on fox news web page..they are slow there
* nixternal turns on the news
<nixternal> Yankees pitcher dies as plane hits NYC building
<nixternal> that is msnbc.com
<nixternal> that sucks..he is a damn good picture
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> pitcher
<nixternal> roflmfao
<nixternal> F = fat ;)
<nixternal> haha
<jjesse> i've created a test bzr branch at http://doc.ubuntu.com/~jjesse/ubuntu-doc
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> you and bzr ;)
<jjesse> i'm trying to learn
<jjesse> i think i like ti better then svn 
<nixternal> really?
<nixternal> as of right now, i don't ;(
<jjesse> just learning :)
<nixternal> bzr commit, push, pull. branch
<nixternal> i have a heck of a time getting it uploaded
<jjesse> ok dinner time i'll be on later
<nixternal> svn commit -m "woohoo" and it work
<jjesse> bzr commit :)
<nixternal> ya same here..gotta goto school
<nixternal> but commit doesn't send it to the server
<nixternal> bzr push sftp://url
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-12
<jjesse_> anyone around?
<mpt> no
<jjesse_> grin :)
<Burgwork> jjesse_: never
<jjesse_> hello Burgwork
<nixternal_> no
<nixternal_> no
<nixternal> added edubuntu handbook to our repos...serious work needed on them
<Burgundavia> nixternal: can you followup and get the various cook/handbook writers accounts quickly?
<Burgundavia> open rt requests for them
<nixternal> there are 3 of us i think...but we are holding off per mdke...need to see quality first
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<nixternal> so, we will get them to commit patches like i used to do...since they don't commit much (25 commits and 4 have been me)
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> I really need to get off my ass and actually work on documentation
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> Edubuntu Handbook as been committed, and now validates
<nixternal> it needs some structure and content love, but it works as of right now
<_froud_> a command like echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4//ip_forward can't be run as sudo, so do we advocate sudo su? 
<nixternal> sudo -i 
<nixternal> i would think
<nixternal> that is annoying about echo though
<nixternal> actually..i think if we are to advocate it...the safest way to do that would be
<nixternal> sudo sh -c "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward"
<nixternal> forgot you can just call the shell with it, and then execute the command
<pepsiman> echo 1 | sudo tee /proc/sys/net/ipv4//ip_forward
<nixternal> who is that I see messing in the Kubuntu cookie jar?
<rob> Konqi?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> mdke has his hand in the Kubuntu cookie jar ;)
<mdke> hmm?
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> nixternal: magic script seems to work on UDG
* mdke beds
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-13
<nixternal> ok mdke, the replace-doctype-with.py is killing me
<nixternal> i can't load it at all..im sure i am doing something wrong as well..as i never use python, nor really never have
<mdke> nixternal: what's wrong?
<nixternal> how do i use the .py file?
<mdke> nixternal: what I've done is put it in my path, and make it executable. That way I call it like any other command. But I suppose it's possible to call it simply using the full address to it too
<nixternal> omg tell me how to put it in my path, and i will buy you a drink whenever we meet some day ;)
<mdke> well, I cheated, and copied it to /usr/bin
<nixternal> i never ever use python, only c++, kde ;)
<nixternal> lol
<mdke> if ~/bin is in your path, you can use that
<nixternal> that easy?
<nixternal> it is in my path
<mdke> go for it
<mdke> the translations are seriously error-ridden btw
<nixternal> i have seen
<mdke> I sent an angry email to the translators about it
<mdke> I'm going to talk to Danilo about whether it is possible to use the corrections we make to create updated po files and update them in Rosetta so we don't have to go through the same thing again
<nixternal> ya, i seen that..it was needed
<nixternal> you sent a mail out a while back telling them to leave &this_stuff; alone
<mdke> yeah, that's right
<nixternal> that is why we went and did all of the Ubuntu to &ubuntu;
<nixternal> or vice-versa
<nixternal> we went from &ubuntu; to Ubuntu ;)
<mdke> yes. It hasn't been successful :)
<nixternal> hehe, i seen
<mdke> oh well. live and learn
<nixternal> the hard ones are where the do </listitem>and soemthing after it
<nixternal> otherwise, most errors are rather simple ones
<mdke> yeah, it may be possible to get error correction into xml2po, that would be good
<nixternal> oh wow, that would be big time
<nixternal> but that would be a huge app...as most of the errors are due to them translating &thankyou; to &gracias;
<nixternal> or the xrefs
<nixternal> that is the one they love to translate and screw you up with too
<mdke> :)
<nixternal> alright.. mdke, i got some weird xml2po errors that i will work out, but the python magic is working..i will work on some of the stuff int he kubuntu branch
<nixternal> g'nite all
<mdke> night nixternal 
<mdke> nixternal: let me know what the errors are, because that sounds like something isn't working
<pepsiman> mdke: any errors in the english uk translations?
<dholbach> Hello!
<dholbach> How are the translations of the ubuntu-docs package coming on? Does anybody know?
<pepsiman> 07:58 < mdke> the translations are seriously error-ridden btw
<dholbach> oh...
<dholbach> pepsiman: what does that mean?
<pepsiman> entities, tags were translated/moved
<dholbach> UARG
<pepsiman> eg "translating &thankyou; to &gracias;"
<dholbach> *whine*
<dholbach> are the heads of translation teams on a mailing list?
<pepsiman> 07:59 < mdke> I sent an angry email to the translators about it
<pepsiman> I think rosetta should be able to spot when entities are modified
<dholbach> woah, I hope this gets fixed :-/
<dholbach> yeah, I agree
<glatzor> Hi Burgundavia, do you know why there are so many tabs and spaces in the menuchoice tags of the desktop guide?
<glatzor> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/ubuntu-docs/+pots/desktopguide/de/+translate?start=310
<glatzor> at the bottom of the page
<glatzor> ping mdke
<Burgwork> glatzor: no idea, sorry
<glatzor> mdke: is on vacations?
<glatzor> Burgwork: mdke is on vacations? :)
<Burgwork> no, he is back now
<nixternal> i love kernel regression
<mdke> glatzor: I was at work
<mdke> pepsiman: I haven't got to -uk yet.
<mdke> pepsiman: unlikely though, english->english is never going to cause many problems. Only typos if anything
<glatzor> mdke: I already wrote to the doc list. There are a lot of tabs and spaces in menuchoice tags.
<glatzor> mdke: we translators can ignore this?
<mdke> glatzor: space between tags is no problem, yeah
<mdke> please don't insert funny little carriage return signs
<mdke> i've seen loads of those
<glatzor> mdke: copy and paste illness :)
<glatzor> mdke: I already wrote a short instruction on how to build the documentation for the German translators
<glatzor> But I don't have got any contact to the kubuntu-docs guys.
* dholbach hugs mdke and hopes he doesn't suffer from permanent brain damage after reading &gracias; and funny little carriage return signs
<pepsiman> mdke: I worry people will translate "color" in tags
<mdke> pepsiman: I can't think of any such tag
* mdke hugs dholbach back
<pepsiman> <font color=...>
<dholbach> mdke: how's the fixing going?
<mdke> dholbach: early days so far
<mdke> glatzor: we need to write such instructions for the main wiki, it's a good idea
<mdke> pepsiman: that doesn't occur in xml, afaik
<mdke> at least not in our xml
<pepsiman> mdke: ok, how about center?
<mdke> pepsiman: nope, nothing that springs to mind
<pepsiman> should be ok then :)
<mdke> do you just do find and replace for those words?
<pepsiman> we use a script that does the finding, but the replacing is manual
<mdke> en_GB is fine for the desktopguide, just looked.
<dholbach> have a nice weekend
<mdke> dholbach: you too!
<dholbach> thanks
<pepsiman> mdke: There are lots of ways to make mistakes in translations.  The Rosetta FAQ doesn't mention the "_n: " or "_: " strings used by KDE apps.
<nixternal> [12:51:32]  * dholbach hugs mdke and hopes he doesn't suffer from permanent brain damage after reading &gracias; and funny little carriage return signs
<nixternal> LOL
<nixternal> im gonna grab a bite and start working with some replace-doctype-with.py magic ;)
<claud1> mdke: can you point me to a page where i can find steps to build a localized ubuntu guide?
<claud1> a simple translate.sh doesn't seems to put all dependent files at the right place
<mdke> claud1: we're updating the translate.sh scripts at the moment
<claud1> great :-)
<claud1> if you give ubuntu translators some steps to check validity of ubuntu-docs translations, I'm sure there're ready to help
<mdke> claud1: ok
<mpt_> mdke, I fixed Launchpad so copying and pasting doesn't result in little carriage return signs any more
<mdke> mpt: that's good news. Now all I need is a way to upload all the fixes I've done to rosetta...
<mpt> "Upload File" doesn't work?
<mdke> mpt: there is no way to convert the xml back to corrected po files, afaik. I've mailed danilo to explore it
<nixternal> mdke: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26657/
<nixternal> i get those errors
<mpt> oh, I see
<mdke> nixternal: whoosh. with all languages?
<nixternal> well, i killed the process...let me go all the way through and see if i get it for everything
<nixternal> ar, bn, ca...ya it looks like all
<nixternal> it is a python error
<nixternal> is there a package/module that goes along or is needed with the replace-doctype-with.py file?
<mdke> nixternal: not that I know of. What doc is that with? I'll try it and report to the author
<nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26658/   <-  kubuntu desktop guide translate.sh
<nixternal> let me try another doc and see if i have any problems
<mdke> try server/packaging
<nixternal> ok
<mdke> oh hang on, don't
<nixternal> ok
<nixternal> hehe
<mdke> nixternal: you've called it twice in line 09
<nixternal> good eye
<nixternal> fixed
<nixternal> let me see if that does anythign
* mdke crosses fingers
<nixternal> hmmm
<mdke> also we need to do some more tinkering in there
<nixternal> just a little bit ;)
<nixternal> sed: can't read C/desktopguide-C.omf: No such file or directory
<nixternal> thats the only error so far..so that did fix it ;)
<nixternal> that is an easy fix though for the kdg
<mdke> yes, kubuntu doesn't have -c.omf files so you don't need that
<mdke> ok, delete line 21 as a start
<nixternal> so far there isn't one error 
<mdke> great
<mdke> change line 3 to:
<mdke> mv rosetta-desktopguide po
<mdke> for x in po/*; do
<nixternal> well...we can keep the if statement in there, but have it spit something out saying "don't worry about this error" or something
<mdke> no, scrap lines 14-16 too
<nixternal> for x in mv rosetta-desktopguide/*; do
<mdke> no, no. Sorry. Let me paste the whole thing
<nixternal> done
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> or remove the entire for x and just do the mv
<mdke> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26660/
<mdke> there it is, less confusing that way
<nixternal> i love this new pastebin..so much faster
<mdke> yeah, very nice indeed.
<mdke> i've tweaked everything that needs tweaking in there, I think, so just take it like that
<mdke> oh shit, no I haven't, I didn't remove the dodgy line
<mdke> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26662/
<mdke> nixternal: sorry
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> we are just testing right now and comitting the translate.sh files only correct?  we aren't comitting translations yet
<nixternal> because from what i have seen, translations are rather bare yet for a lot of languages
<mdke> nixternal: I've committed aboutubuntu and desktopguide for Ubuntu 
<mdke> I was confident they worked
<mdke> one of the issues is going to be ubuntu/menu-entries, I need to figure out how to make that script work with introducing another variable, the names of the xml files
<nixternal> alrighty...got my first validity error...so it seems to be working rather well
<nixternal> introduction.xml:144: element xref: validity error : Syntax of value for attribute linkend of xref is not valid
<nixternal> ahh, the infamous xref ;)
<nixternal> whahaha, it is the same one from dapper translations as well -> unknown ID "svobodn software"
<nixternal> hehe, easy fix
<nixternal> mdke: what are the chances of getting HedgeMage (Susan Stewart) and pygi (Mario Danic) svn access so they can commit to the handbook as well?  they know what they are doing without a doubt
<nixternal> hedgemage has even setup her own repo and rocked on that..so i think she can be trusted, as well as pygi
* nixternal puts that in has his 2 cents
<mdke> nixternal: I'm wary, because you said the handbook was so broken. Still, if they only work on the edubuntu folder, I guess it can't hurt
<mdke> but it might be unfair to other new contributors who we haven't given access to yet
<nixternal> understandable
<nixternal> they will only be in the handbook directory
<nixternal> they were just umfamiliar with the structure wise from creating from scratch..otherwise, there was no problems really with their xml, except they were a little off on structure
<nixternal> misuse of <sections>
<nixternal> both hedgemage and pygi are members, and im positive they won't be off messing with out other directories and will stick with the edubuntu related stuff
* mdke nods
<nixternal> im finishing up on kubuntu desktop guide translations...these were far better than the dapper ones with mistakes
<nixternal> the big mistakes this time, was xrefs where they would drop the "s"
<nixternal> and those aren't big
<mdke> good
<mdke> holy crap, the "Contributing to Ubuntu" document isn't in Rosetta
<nixternal> doh
<mdke> what a bummer
<nixternal> i was wondering where that thing went..is that the one that andreas worked on?
<mdke> yes. Damn. I must never go on holiday
<nixternal> +1 ;)
<nixternal> if you do, make sure someone here has a little bit of insight to your brain ;)
<nixternal> laserjock and i were trying a little bit of everything, and even got them to push us back a week
<mdke> in this case, my brain says that there should be one pot file per document. But I didn't spot it when I got back from holiday either, so my bad too
<mdke> we need to get Jordan or someone to work on simplifying the packaging in ubuntu-docs, it's a pain to add each language to debian/install all the time
<nixternal> ya it is..i have to do that for my gwenview package
<nixternal> oh, you are on a different topic there i think
<nixternal> for x in po/*; do
<nixternal>         y=$(basename ${x} .po)
<nixternal>         echo ${y}
<nixternal>         ../../validate.sh ${y}/desktopguide.xml
<nixternal> done
<nixternal> my "revalidate" script once im all done, just to be safe
<nixternal> all you do is delete the middle part of the translate scripts
<mdke> yes, I do that sometime too
<nixternal> alright..kubuntu desktop guide is done..i got a grasp now of the new setup, so if you want me to continue on others, just say so
<nixternal> any chance of the documentation team going back to "biweekly" meetings in the future?
<nixternal> i was gonna add myself to the agenda to become a member as a joke, and then i read the "biweekly" part
<mdke> become a member of what?
<nixternal> doc team
<nixternal> like they do with CC..people add their names
<mdke> you are one, aren't you?
<nixternal> not that i know of
* nixternal checks his lp account
<nixternal> nope, im still on the "member list" all the way on the bottom
<nixternal> hmm..i see revell joined up around the same time i did..i wonder if we were in the same meeting where they wanted documentation people
<nixternal> arg..dog is yelling..brb
<nixternal> i thought my dog had to go out..i have hardwood floors, and she can't walk on them at all...well her lazy boy usually has a rug in front of it, so she can jump up into her chair..it seem the cleaning lady forgot to put it back..so the dog was crying because she couldn't get in her lazy boy
<mdke> nixternal: you have commit access right?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> i just comitted the kubuntu desktop guide translations ;)
<mdke> ah great. Did you add the relevant languages to the Makefile?
<nixternal> no, but i will do that now
<nixternal> i always forget that
<mdke> thanks. I added you to people/ubuntu-doc
<nixternal> ty ;)
<nixternal> we don't add all of them correct?
<nixternal> there are only certain ones we add
<mdke> yes, all of them. Except "po/" which isn't a language
<nixternal> got it
<mdke> ok, I'm calling it a night before I go mad
<nixternal> heh, a little busy
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> i just seen your commits for about
<nixternal> g'nite, thanks again for the help and everything!
<mdke> thanks to you.
<mdke> server and packaging still to go. Then need to work out how the hell to do menu-entries
<nixternal> no problem, this is fun and keeping me busy..better this than school work ;)
<nixternal> i will do some ore tonight, if possible
<nixternal> i will grab them..so if you wake up and see commits, you know i got to them ;)
<mdke> alrighty. With anything that goes into Ubuntu, don't forget you need to add stuff to debian/install too (joy)
<nixternal> oh ya
<mdke> ok, night
<FireRabbit> is this still the prefered way to set up a mirror? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Debmirror
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-14
<nixternal> i wouldn't know FireRabbit, ifyou can get ahold of one of the motu's, or imbrandon to confirm, that would be your best bet
<nixternal> mdke: packaging guide -> french translations are borked
* rob was just reading the scrollback.. ouch
<nixternal> rather boring isn't it ;)
<nixternal> mdke: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26706/
<nixternal> note to self, add packing and server guide to debian/install
<nixternal> packaging guide, server guide translations complete > updated ubuntu makefile with new translations > updated debian/install with new translations > french translations for packaging guide are broken, refer to pastebin link from about 1 hour back 26706
<Ubugtu> New bug: #66047 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Shortcuts for non-keyboard characters in Gnome, as well as compose-key combinations, are undocumented" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66047
<mdke> nixternal: ok, I'm familiar with that problem. Leave it and I'll sort it
<mdke> nice work
<mdke> nixternal: just had a look at your work - looks excellent. Thanks a lot
<mdke> trappist: around by any chance?
<mdke> trappist: ok, I've emailed you
<rob> hey, have you guys checked out XML Copy Editor?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #66088 in ubuntu-doc "typo in german ubuntu book" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66088
<Ubugtu> New bug: #66089 in ubuntu-doc "Typo in german ubuntu book" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66089
<localuser> Hello.  I wanted to introduce myself
<nixternal> i think localuser needed a little more than 4 minutes to introduce himself, but oh well ;)
<nixternal> ya mdke, i need to mess around and learn the insides and outs of those po files so i will be able to diagnose them a little better, but i didn't want to mess with it, especially since i didn't know french, and didn't know 100% what i was doing ;)
<nixternal> Burgundavia: you seen this -:> http://bde.enscp.fr/Assos/CCP/cercle_logo.gif
<nixternal> http://bde.enscp.fr/Assos/CCP/ccp.html
<nixternal> http://bde.enscp.fr/Assos/CCP/equipe.html
<nixternal> that is quite bogus
<mdke> nixternal: no problem, it's caused by a rosetta bug.
#ubuntu-doc 2006-10-15
<mdke> BAD ASS.
<mdke> that's the record for most number of files touched in one commit
* mdke beds
<tonyyarusso> I ask this here merely b/c you're most familiar with the wiki:  Where should I look for a solid example of a homepage?  HomepageTemplate is practically blank; is there a user who has a particularly good one?
<Madpilot> any Ubuntu Member's page should be a decent example, tonyyarusso 
<Madpilot> the main purpose of a wiki homepage in the Ubuntu project is to show you are qualified for Membership, pretty much
<tonyyarusso> Exactly.
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: speaking of which, since when does your page have a pic of your (?) plane?
<Madpilot> not mine, just one of the Flying Club's. it's got a pic because I had the pic around ;)
<Madpilot> that pic was taken at a grass airstrip about 200km east of here - that flight was the first time I'd landed on grass :)
* poningru wonders who is working on search.ubuntu.com
<poningru> I wanna work on that
<poningru> damn when will this month end
<poningru> anyway... I wanna consolidate the wiki and the ubuntu forums search functionality onto one page
<poningru> but
<poningru> give the users option to search through tldp as well
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: Congratulations.
<poningru> and other documentation areas
<poningru> such as debian docs
<poningru> so anyone know who is working on that??
<poningru> please? pretty please?
<poningru> with a cherry on top?
<Madpilot> no idea, sorry
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: What are you using as references for learning PHP?
<Madpilot> um... lately I haven't been. I should get back to it...
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> tonyyarusso: do some crazy project like what I just said ;)
<Madpilot> I had a couple of O'Reilly books out of the library.
<poningru> how I am learning is reading docs+project
<poningru> as in rolling out a crm system at your work place ;)
<poningru> or deploying a library management system
<tonyyarusso> Madpilot: Okay
<mdke> morning all
<poningru> mdke: ^^
<poningru> re search.ubuntu.com
<poningru> the opensearch people have already setup all the things for us to copy for that
<mdke> Matthew Nuzum is the person working on it
<poningru> thanks!
<poningru> do you know the progress on that?
<mdke> no
<poningru> sweet thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-08
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4455 ubuntu/hardware/C/hardware.xml: Correct touchpad instructions (patch by Mads Peter Rommedahl, closes #150136)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4456 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Corrections to basic-commands (patch by Niall Jackson, closes #138891)
<|logo|> leave
<ubotu> New bug: #150563 in ubuntu-docs (main) "package ubuntu-docs 7.10.3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocesso post-installation script morto por sinal (Interromper)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150563
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4457 ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent: Corrected menu item (patch by Robert Bowman, closes #150001
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4458 common/C/contributors.xml: Updated contributor list
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4459 ubuntu/internet/C/wireless.xml: Cor
<ubotu> New bug: #150641 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Desktop Effects settings UI has changed" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150641
<Lhademmo1> Why don't anyone edit the topic to remove the MeetingAgenda?
<Lhademmo1> afk
<LaserJock> mdke: man, I'm glad you guys had to do all that translation stuff
<LaserJock> I spent like 3 hrs on Saturday getting the translations put into edubuntu-docs
<mdke> LaserJock: not bad!
<LaserJock> I made more commits this weekend than I have in probably the last year ;-)
<mdke> :)
<mdke> LaserJock: thanks for sorting that out
<LaserJock> well for some reason I hadn't realized that we branched already
<LaserJock> so I synced stuff up
<LaserJock> then tried to figure out how to do translations
<mdke> LaserJock: I discovered what "some reason" is... I forgot to put the mailing list in the to: address when sending the email saying I'd branched
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, it seems like everybody else figured it out
<mdke> nope...
<LaserJock> mdke: when you download the .pos from Rosetta do they come as <doc>-<lang>.po?
<mdke> yeah, unfortunately
<LaserJock> that was my big fight
<mdke> to rename them I used a bit of a hack
<LaserJock> I was using the Ubuntu translate.sh script
<mdke> ah, guess I should have added the hack to the repository
<LaserJock> so in the end I just renamed them
<mdke> yes, that's what the hack does too
<mdke> I got it from lamont
<mdke> for i in `cat libs/shipped-docs` ; do cd $i/po ; for x in $i-*.po ; do echo $x ; mv $x ${x#$i-} ; done ; cd ../../ ; done
<mdke> at least, the mv bit I got from him
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> I did it a little differently
<LaserJock> but same kinda thing
<ScorpKing> hi guys. i want to add a howto on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ on using dd over nfs for backups. what should i call it?
<ScorpKing> in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TitleIndex there are a few on BackupPC and so on but that won't be to descriptive. any ideas?
<ScorpKing> will ddToNFS be ok?
* ScorpKing waits...
<ScorpKing> !guide
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about guide - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<ScorpKing> heh
<ScorpKing> oh well. i think i'll make it DDtoNFS. that looks ok to me. now to choose the right template.
<Lhademmo1> mdke: How's work coming along on bug 123963 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123963 in ubuntu-docs "Ubuntu 7.04 documentation updates have not been done" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123963
<mdke> Lhademmo1: actually, not bad
<Lhademmo1> Good :)
<Lhademmo1> And sorry if I keep bugging you people. My guess is that most noobs do that
<mdke> no, it's absolutely fine
<mdke> quite helpful, actually
<mdke> as for the topic, did you already try changing it?
<Lhademmo1> okay, then I'll just keep doing it.
<Lhademmo1> I think I must have sent ~50 mails to Phil Bull the last two days alone ;)
<mdke> wow, keen
<Lhademmo1> Nope. I dont know how to do that from Pidgin
<mdke> asking questions is definitely the best way to learn; if you aren't sure, ask
<Lhademmo1> Yes, but mentoring during string freeze could be hard, I reckon?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-doc:mdke] : Ubuntu Documentation Team http://doc.ubuntu.com or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | Get involved! http://www.mdke.org/?p=67 | backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu CoC @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<mdke> Lhademmo1: well, it can be a quiet time in documentation; except for those of us dealing with translations
<mdke> and last minute bug fixing
* mdke beds
<Lhademmo1> Yeah, , I was thinking about the bugfices
<Lhademmo1> well, off to bed
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-09
<ScorpKing> ok i'm done. hehe. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DDtoNFS
<ScorpKing> nite guys!
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4460 /trunk/ (libs/global.ent ubuntu/basic-commands/C/basic-commands.xml): Change lsb_release output to automatically use current version information (patch by Dean Sas, closes #141444
<k31th> Morning guys
<ubotu> New bug: #150936 in ubuntu-docs (main) "The default firefox start page shows text only" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150936
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4461 ubuntu/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent: Correct menu entry for device manager (patch by Mads Peter Rommedahl, closes #141491)
<Lhademmo1> yay
<Lhademmo1> what is CIA reporting?
<mdke> Lhademmo1: commits to the repository
<Lhademmo1> where are the logs of that on launchpad?
<mdke> Lhademmo1: they aren't on Launchpad
<Lhademmo1> j
<Lhademmo1> k
<mdke> Lhademmo1: you can get them at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc-commits though
<Lhademmo1> thanks
<Lhademmo1> Hey, isn't https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-doc/trunk superseded by https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ubuntu-doc/trunk ?
<mdke> Lhademmo1: they all need to be tidied up tbh; they are mainly tests. none are active yet
<Lhademmo1> what does 'tbh' stand for?
<mdke> Lhademmo1: to be honest
<Lhademmo1> ah, okay
<Lhademmo1> *Lhademmo1 gained 15 XP*
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-10
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<mdke> morning all
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> can somebody tell me how to redirect to a an anchor of another page?
<bhuvan> dholbach: do you mean auto redirect?
<dholbach> #REDIRECT SomePage#someanchor    does not work
<dholbach> It tries to find a page named   "SomePage#someanchor"
<dholbach> #REFRESH 2 http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SomePage#someanchor        works, but is ugly
<bhuvan> yet, i'm unsuccessful dholbach
<mpt> iz moin boog
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4462 ubuntu/windows/C/windows.xml: Remove unnecessary section (patch by Eero Salokannel, closes #144795)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
(Lhademmor/#ubuntu-doc) What's the rules about pictures on the wiki?
<mdke> Lhademmor: what sort of rules?
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-11
<Flare183> Any howtos that I can write?
<mpt> Howto ask questions on IRC that don't get answered? :-] 
<nixternal> lol
<mdke> mpt: I think the magic way is to stay around for more than 90 seconds
<mdke> popey: around this time of day?
<mpt> mdke, yes, that was what I was implying :-)
<mpt> A Yelp window has just appeared on my screen
<mpt> It says nothing except "checkboxes checkboxes FALSE"
<mpt> and "About This Document"
<mpt> the "About This Document" link does nothing when I click on it
<mpt> trs bizarre
<mpt> er, trs bizarre
<nixternal> man, translations this go round are a mess
<nixternal> warning: failed to load external entity "add-applications-zh_CN/.xml"
<nixternal> mdke: ^^ did you see that when you did your translations?
<nixternal> and also, it is creating directories named document-cc/ instead of just cc/
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4464 /kubuntu/ (2385 files in 800 dirs): Kubuntu translation love - not fun at all
<nixternal> yowsers!
<nixternal> now lets hope it all builds :)
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4465 /kubuntu/about-kubuntu/desktop/ (about-kubuntu.desktop about-kubuntu.desktop.in po/): desktop translation
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4466 /kubuntu/about-kubuntu/desktop/about-kubuntu.desktop: more desktop translations
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: philbull * r4467 ubuntu/switching/C/applications.xml: Several small improvements (patch by Mads Rommedahl)
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-12
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4468 /kubuntu/ (7 files in 2 dirs): kubuntu debian and makefile updates
<nnonix> Am I the only one who things the forums are full of more bad information than good?
<nixternal> nope
<nnonix> I've seriously considered the Documentation Team but .... everyone I tell about help.ubuntu.com is surprised ... and didn't know it was there.
<nnonix> How do you promote the good documentation without alienating the other rather "seat of your pants" sources (forums, mailing list, IRC)
<nnonix> I swear, there WILL be some Forum article about how to install flash in Gutsy.
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4469 /kubuntu/ (781 files in 781 dirs): fixed the mess that we call translations to point at the correct lang=cc
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal gutsy * r4470 /kubuntu/ (17 files in 17 dirs): my cheater lang files
<mdke> nixternal: no. You need to rename the po files from document-cc to cc. Also, make sure you get the latest version of translate.sh from branches/gutsy/ubuntu/translate.sh
<mdke> nnonix: good questions. At the moment the Ubuntu website ecosystem is a bit disorganised. We have a specification about how to improve things; and improving the content and organisation of the wiki will also help a lot
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke gutsy * r4471 / (54 files in 54 dirs): fix to bug 144796
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144796 in ubuntu-docs ""Glossary of Windows terms" link doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144796
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-doc.log
<nixternal> mdke: ya, I finally got it yesterday...there has got to be an easier way..oh wait there is, and I will have a script for it one of these days :)
<mdke> nixternal: there is a bug about rosetta exporting po files in the correct format (cc.po rather than template-cc.po); they'll fix it on their end I hope
<frank_> is iit too late to fix problems is the kubuntu documentation for gutsy?
<mdke> frank_: yes, unless it's very serious
<nixternal> mdke: groovy...that was a pain, but it is done....and now I can take a much needed break :)
<frank_> mdke: the command to enable libdvdcss is sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh not sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/examples/install-css.sh as the kubuntu doc says
<frank_> mdke: and in the multimedia section, the  libxine-extracodecs  package doesn't exist anymore
<nixternal> frank_: can you fix that and send me the patch for trunk...it won't get in for Gutsy, but it will for Hardy
<nixternal> actually, I guess I could fix it really quick in trunk
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r4472 kubuntu/musicvideophotos/C/musicvideophotos.xml: Thanks for Frank for finding this one
<nixternal> frank_: ^^ fixed, but like I said, it will be wrong in Gutsy unfortunately
<frank_> nixternal: it's too bad it won't get into gutsy. oh well
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-13
<Lhademmor> JUDAS IS RISIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4473 generic/server/C/wikis.xml:
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * generic/server/C/wikis.xml
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation:  Recent update to mediawiki section.
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Patch by: Adam Sommer <asommer70@gmail.com>
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4474 generic/serverguide/C/wikis.xml:
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * generic/serverguide/C/wikis.xml
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation:  Recent updates to wiki section.
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Patch by: Adam Sommer <asommer70@gmail.com>
<jjesse> is help.ubuntu.com translated into different languages?
<nixternal> jjesse: I don't think so
<jjesse> nixternal: working on making changes to the chpt about help for trianing
#ubuntu-doc 2007-10-14
<mdke> popey: hi
<popey> mdke: hi
<mdke> popey: nw, I just emailed
* popey wonders if this is in response to my slighty drunken slight-rant last night :S
<mdke> :)
<ubotu> New bug: #152627 in xubuntu-docs (main) "Typo error in a string" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152627
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4475 generic/server/C/web-servers.xml:
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * generic/server/C/web-servers.xml
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation:  Fix for ruby on rails section.
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Patch by: Adam Sommer <asommer70@gmail.com>
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: bhuvan * r4476 generic/serverguide/C/web-servers.xml:
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: * generic/serverguide/C/web-servers.xml
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation:  Fix for ruby on rails section.
<CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: Patch by: Adam Sommers <asommer70@gmail.com>
<erpirata> ciao
<erpirata> ciao
<dsas> in the docs when should we use the "screen" tag and when should we use "command" ?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-06
<bobertdos> So, I need an opinion on whether I should write an addendum to the SoundTroubleshooting entry or start one of my own.
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-07
<cherico> how do i change a VGA to a DVI i keep getting black screen i have a GO driver
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-08
<anilg> Hi.. is there a good resource that explains bzr's 3 way merging? I will be editing the ubuntu-doc and put them into a new bzr repo, so want to be able to easily merge the changes that go into the original ubuntu-doc repo
<anilg> also what editor do you use to edit the xml files?
<kagou> Hi
<kagou> i believe that ubuntu packaging guide was available on yelp. But in Intrepid i can't find it or a package. Am I wrong ?
<anilg> [repeating from earlier] is there a good resource that explains bzr's 3 way merging? I'll be editing the ubuntu-doc and put them into a new bzr repo, so want to be able to easily merge the changes that go into the original ubuntu-doc repo
<anilg> ï»¿also what editor is used to edit the xml files?
<mdke> evening all
 * mdke is back online after a week off
<Atamira> wb
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: delete, I think.
<Rocket2DMn> lol, 3 days later
<Rocket2DMn> which page was that again?
<Rocket2DMn> ah right NeedsExpansion
<mdke> yeah
<Rocket2DMn> ok ill try to delete it
<Rocket2DMn> cool, it worked mdke , thanks
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-09
<SlimeyPete> if I've run a command I found on the wiki and it corrupted my system, should I just edit the wiki or should I contact the user who put the command on there and discuss it with them? What's the protocol? :)
<cody-somerville> SlimeyPete, ugh
<cody-somerville> SlimeyPete, link to the page containing the bad command?
<SlimeyPete> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PureKDE
<SlimeyPete> well, when I say "corrupted", it removed networkmanager
<SlimeyPete> which wasn't such a big deal for me but would cause serious trouble for a noob
<SlimeyPete> I also had some trouble with X afterwards, and had to reconfigure the x-server but I'm not sure if that was a direct result of running the command
<SlimeyPete> (I'm referring to the Hardy manual command)
<SlimeyPete> oh, and it messed with likewise-open too, which resulted in me being removed from our domain.
<SlimeyPete> basically I think there should be a warning so that newbies are aware that there's the possibility that the command will remove important parts of the system
<cody-somerville> Feel free to add a warning
<SlimeyPete> k, done
<rsc-> why on earth is the wiki immutable? :(
<agy_> rsc-: which wiki?
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-10
<anna_delune> hai
<dan> hi there, I have recently spent some time trying to get a decent sat nav system working under linux. I ended up using MapFactor's PC Navigator 8 under WINE. I have written a guide for Hardy, but I can't find out how / where I submit it. I am sure I am being thick or going blind.... can someone point me in the right direction?
<little> Knock, knock, DocTeam - anybody home?
<dinda> ping the room on a quick question on docs in Bzr
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-11
<persia> Hi.  I'm looking at bug #191704, and I think it is best solved with documentation.
<persia> What's the best way to do that?
<vorian> hi nixternal
<technomensch> good evening all
#ubuntu-doc 2008-10-12
 * mdke mornings all
<LjL> hello. for various reasons, i'd like to duplicate the table of equivalent software (and add to it) that's currently given by ubottu in !equivalents, that is http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html
<LjL> there is a problem however. i see already two pages on our wiki that are similar in scope to that, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoftwareEquivalents and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsApplicationsEquivalents
<LjL> first, i'm puzzled by the fact that they actually seem to be *identical*, not just "cover the same material" as the tags say
<LjL> second, they link to http://www.libervis.com/wiki/index.php?title=Table_of_Equivalent_Software , which is very similar to the !equivalents table (likely derived from it already), so i wonder if perhaps i should add to that, instead
<technomensch> good morning all
<technomensch> how is everyone?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-05
<mdke> morning all
<jjesse> morning mdke
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> who of you is interested in Packaging Docs and has been participating in the discussions there already?
<jjesse> hello
<missaugustina> dholbach: I have started work on editing the Complete Packaging Guide on the wiki.
<dholbach> missaugustina: yeah, I saw it - great work - let's talk about it on the list :)
<dholbach> I'm on the phone right now, which is why I didn't directly reply
<missaugustina> dholbach: no problem. Nathan is currently reviewing it and offering feedback for me.
<dholbach> :-)
<dholbach> cool
<missaugustina> I don't know anything about packaging in ubuntu ;) So I was starting from scratch
<missaugustina> I worked as a Release Engineer for about 8 months for InDesign, so I have some experience with packaging
<missaugustina> Nathan's feedback has been great. I mainly want to make sure the information is accurate and consistent with how you actually do things.
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> I appreciate your good work on this!
<dholbach> missaugustina: maybe you send another mail to the packaging-docs list about your work so we can all have a chat about it?
<missaugustina> dholbach: no problem! Packaging is a really great way to get folks involved with Ubuntu and currently it's pretty difficult to get started.
<missaugustina> Yeah I can do that :)
<dholbach> packaging is the bread and butter of Ubuntu - even if you just want to work on small fixes, you have to know a bit about it
<dholbach> so any way in which we can speed up things is going to be great
<dholbach> I have a bunch of others ideas already and it's great to have a forum for that now
<dholbach> and some motivated people! :)
<missaugustina> I'm glad you put together the list, I felt like I was fumbling around in the dark ;)
<missaugustina> I really like writing and helping people that way (hence why I'm on the doc team)
<dholbach> I'll try to get some more people involved in this as I feel there's more and more demands
<missaugustina> I will put together an email describing what I've been working on and send it out today :)
<dholbach> like upstream people that just want to know about our release schedule and how to "push the right buttons to get something done"
<dholbach> or people who packaged something in a PPA and want to get it in Ubuntu now
<dholbach> cool
<dholbach> thanks a bunch
<dholbach> I'll call it a day now and have a quick dinner and take the dog out :)
<dholbach> have a great day
<missaugustina> you too!
<rr72> just start reading up on the doc team on wiki?
<rr72> bbl
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-06
<Zachk18> hi glatzor_
<mdke> morning all
<cumulus007> Why are documentation strings still changing while the documentation freeze has been active for a couple of days now?
<cumulus007> that shouldn't happen
<jjesse> i know there have been some freeze exceptions made
<cumulus007> jjesse: of coure, I forgot about the exceptions
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, congratulations on being re-elected to the CC
<dsas> yes, congrats mdke. kutgw
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: dsas: thanks I'm very pleased
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, just talking with some beginners team guys right now, i think i'll send them in here to say hi
<mdke> great stuff
<jpds> mdke: Congrats.
<mdke> I'm afraid I can't hang around long for now but definitely welcome them
<mdke> jpds: :)
<lukjad007> Hey mdke, congrats :)
<mdke> hi lukjad007
<lukjad007> Hey
<starcraftman> mdke, congrats on the re-election boss. Well deserved for all your hard work. :)
<Saj0577> how do i redirect a page to another page on the wiki/
<Saj0577> ?
<Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HelpOnProcessingInstructions
<Saj0577> cheers
<Rocket2DMn> #REDIRECT for internal redirects, #REFRESH for redirecting to external pages
<Saj0577> or should i move the ocntents of my page? cos i created it as Saj0577 not saj0577
<Rocket2DMn> it's up to you, it's a personal page
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-07
<Saj0577> I going to redirect it as it has all the changes which show people doing their tests. now back to work on other wiki page lol
<Saj0577> is it me being silly or is there not a wiki page for pidgin?
<Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pidgin
<Saj0577> yeah found it. doing 4 wiki pages atm im on a roll :D
<Rocket2DMn> were you looking on wiki.ubuntu.com?
<Saj0577> yeah but now i learnt tyo look on both
<Rocket2DMn> the community docs are at h.u.c/community
<Rocket2DMn> w.u.c is the team wiki, there is some documentation there, but wiki help documentation is really supposed to be on the community docs
<Saj0577> but i can only edit wiki pages and then people will make then help pages if there good yes?
<Rocket2DMn> you can make new pages, but most stuff already has documentation
<starcraftman> Saj0577, no, ya can edit huc pages directly. I think thats what your asking. Same login with lp to access.
<Saj0577> oright okays. well i doing wiki.ubuntu atm
<Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, if it doesnt have the /community, then you are looking at html versions of the syste mdocs
<Rocket2DMn> those you cant edit directly
<Saj0577> okay.
<Saj0577> so anything in wiki.ubuntu.com/page_name yeah?
<Zachk18> Saj0577, correct
<Saj0577> sweet :)
<starcraftman> Saj0577,  These you can edit via login > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DriveImaging < note community after slash.
<starcraftman> These are snapshots of sysdocs > https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/
<Saj0577> If i write for the wiki it is helping though yeah?
<starcraftman> Saj0577, well, write what? If it's community documentation should be on huc, wiki.ubuntu per my understanding is now nothing more than a scratch pad for doc contributors and a dumping ground for proposals, team organization and miscellaneous.
<Saj0577> argh right okay.
<Saj0577> well if i write in the wiki it means at least i making progress for the team
<Zachk18> starcraftman, i agree. the huc is more of the actual help nowadays....the wiki seems to be like you said...a dumping ground
<starcraftman> Saj0577, can I see what content ya writing on wiki.ubuntu, then I can tell easy if it should be there.
<Saj0577> starcraftman: Geany   been working on that before lost computer going to resume work on it
<Saj0577> its pretty basic atm as it was just a quick writing before went to bed so knew what i needed to do
<Zachk18> Saj0577, https://help.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWithFirebirdDatabase that's one i'm doing...of a few different ones...check it out
<Saj0577> hang on
<Saj0577> Zachk18: nice.
<Zachk18> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuWithFirebirdDatabase there's the actual link
<Saj0577> i found it
<Zachk18> oh ok
<Zachk18> i forgot the /community is all
<Saj0577> ye sure
<starcraftman> Saj0577, k, well as ya like. But once finished be sure to move the page to HUC and delete the wuc page.
<Saj0577> yeah okay. sounds good.
<Zachk18> starcraftman, hey!
<starcraftman> Zachk18, Hey back at ya.
<Zachk18> starcraftman, what's up?
<starcraftman> Zachk18, Too many things, that's what. Up is a busy direction, same as down. Left and right by far less busy.
<Zachk18> starcraftman, haha.....hey...did you see i'm a bt member now?
<starcraftman> indeed, twas quick, welcome aboard Zachk18. :) Don't let learning stop once ya out of paddy status, and remember to do wiki work or else....
<Zachk18> starcraftman, yes.....
<starcraftman> Zachk18, the else is making tux cry. Nobody wants that.
<Zachk18> starcraftman, i'm actually working on a doc page for Project UDSF as we 'speak"
<starcraftman> Zachk18, good, I gotta relax now. Feeling tad tired.
<Zachk18> starcraftman, ok....talk to you later my mahn
<rr72> lol I just realized why I was the only one in xubuntu-dev hehe.
<Zachk18> rr72, why...
<korin43> hi everyone. I'm trying to write a manual in docbook format, but I'm having trouble finding a way to view what I'm writing. Is there a simple way to convert it to HTML?
<rr72> Zachk18~ because I was looking for devel not dev
<mdke> nhandler: thanks for the quick reply :) Shall I reject the merge for now?
<nhandler> mdke: Yes, that would be fine.
<mdke> ok, thanks
<mdke> let us know how things go in the future
* nhandler changed the topic of #ubuntu-doc to: Ubuntu Documentation Team - visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam to contribute | Get involved! http://www.mdke.org/?p=67 | Channel log at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Please observe the Ubuntu Code of Conduct - http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
<nhandler> mdke: Will do. If you want, feel free to join the ~packaging-docs team on LP and subscribe to the mailing list.
<mdke> I'll probably have a look at the archive every now and again :)
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-08
<XDevHald> Rocket2DMn: Did you have anything you wanted me to do?
<Rocket2DMn> XDevHald, there are some suggested pages remaining from the BT's summer of documentation here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
<Rocket2DMn> I'll be workingon putting together a page like that for the doc team directly
<Rocket2DMn> otherwise, there are pages that are tagged - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag
<XDevHald> Thanks Rocket
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn, hey rocket, we still got no huc page specifically for GRUB2 right?
<Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, that's right, i just set a redirect to the team wiki's documentation
<Rocket2DMn> it would be good to get some real documentation there soon
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn, drs just pointed me to this > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub2
<Rocket2DMn> yea starcraftman that's where the community doc pages redirects right now
<starcraftman> Rough, but someone with more knowledge than I on grub2 should clean it up and convert.
<starcraftman> Ah, ok, just making sure.
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, somebody may need to get down and dirty with grub2 here.  i'll be willing if i can find the time, though i'm not sure if i can find that time
<starcraftman> I'll add it to beginners dev list of things to do.
<Rocket2DMn> however, it doesn't need to be an all-or-nothing approach at first
<Rocket2DMn> start with the basics, and if the page is structured well, it should be easy to expand
<starcraftman> Rocket2DMn, k, added to list for creation. I'll have a look at it on friday, got time. Though I haven't really played with grub2 at all.
<Rocket2DMn> cool starcraftman , thanks
<Zachk18> starcraftman!
<starcraftman> wahhhhhhhhhhh
<starcraftman> yes?
<Zachk18> starcraftman, oh nothing...just sayin hey dude
<starcraftman> hehe
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-09
<j1mc> hi there - is anyone around?
<j1mc> bbiab
<Rocket2DMn> sup j1mc
<j1mc> hey Rocket2DMn
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: i'm not feeling so hot about Xubuntu docs.  They need a big overhaul.
<j1mc> I am considering rewriting them in Mallard for 10.04.
<Rocket2DMn> yeah?  I havent used Xubuntu unfortunately
<j1mc> it is a good distro.
<Rocket2DMn> I'm hoping to help get the regular ubuntu-docs up to speed for 10.04, fix some old bugs and whatnot
<j1mc> it deserves good docs.
<Rocket2DMn> i agree, Xubuntu is pretty popular to
<Rocket2DMn> too8
<j1mc> :)
<Rocket2DMn> i'd love to help you out, but with all the other stuff i do, i can barely keep up as it is
<j1mc> understood, Rocket2DMn . . . i'm not asking for you to help.  :)
<j1mc> i will have to seek out help, but i feel like I know more people now, and have better resources
<Rocket2DMn> that's good to hear, best of luck
<starcraftman> j1mc, good luck with that. Not really a xfce user. If ya just need a second opinion or a quick hand I'm about.
<j1mc> starcraftman: yes - thanks
<j1mc> bbiab
<rr72> starcraftman~ wat does jim mean rewriting them for xubuntu? how can I help him with that as i have some spare time now
<mdke> j1mc_: how about for 10.04 you try and bring the branch closer to ubuntu-docs, branching from it, and working on a set of changes that reflect the differences with ubuntu? I'm thinking then you could use the various commits that are relevant by merging from the ubuntu-docs branch regularly. is xubuntu too different to ubuntu for that to work, do you think?
 * Zachk18 is back (gone 00:00:23)
 * Zachk18 is away: Going to bed....back around 8:00 A.M.
<j1mc__> mdke: i can see certain advantages of just staying closer to ubuntu docs.
<j1mc__> if xfce docs use mallard, though, it would make sense to move xubuntu docs that way, too, though.
<j1mc__> i think it is generally good to take content from Ubuntu where appropriate, though.
<j1mc__> brb
<starcraftman> j1mc, oh and rr72 expressed interest in helping ya while ya was out.
<j1mc> starcraftman: thanks
<j1mc> he's in my loco team, too.
<j1mc> i'll be in touch w/ him.
<starcraftman> j1mc, Awesome.
<shaunm> j1mc: let me know if you have any problems
<shaunm> or if you need anything, or whatever
<j1mc> shaunm: thanks - i will let you know.
<shaunm> cool
 * shaunm -> airport
<j1mc> j1mc -> work... have a good day, all.
<Zachk18> any of the team here?
<rr72> starcraftman~ thanks :-D talked to him a little but have no clue where to start w/ docs. A good first step would be to learn docbook-xml?
<Zachk18> Rocket2DMn, hey....got few minutes for a pm?
<Rocket2DMn> Zachk18, sure
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, when will the karmic branch for ubuntu-docs be set and the development branch moved to lucid?
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-10
<fagan> mdke: you around?
<fagan> Anyone want to help for a minute, im trying to close a few bugs. Im starting with Bug #442097
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 442097 in ubuntu-docs "IE6 in Windows document" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442097
<fagan> Should I make a section for IE6 and another for IE7 and 8?
<fagan> The only difference is how to open the import/export favourites and the name of a few buttons
<fagan> I drafted up a version with a different section for IE7/8 but it looks a bit redundant because its very similar
<Rocket2DMn> fagan, is that the mateiral in the "Web browser bookmarks" section?
<fagan> Let me check
<Rocket2DMn> lists IE, Firefox, and Opera
<fagan> But its out of date
<fagan> Its for IE6
<Rocket2DMn> I think it's probably easiest and more user friendly to just have 3 differnet subsections for the different IE versions
<fagan> Well IE7 and 8 are the same
<Rocket2DMn> oh, ok, then just 2 sections
<fagan> 6 is the problem but people still use it
<Rocket2DMn> maybe include a line at the top to explain how to check which version they are using
<fagan> Hmmm id just delete the IE6 stuff and just have IE7/8
<Rocket2DMn> The material is already there for IE6, I don't see any reason to remove it, it is still a fairly common browser unfortunately
<Rocket2DMn> if you were writing this from scratch, i might say don't bother with it, but again, the documentaiton is already there
<fagan> I wrote it up already with both but really they arent too different. Its just where to find it and instead of finish they changed it to export.
<fagan> Ill just submit the patch with both
<Rocket2DMn> ok
<pcutler|out> fagan: I'd delete the IE6 stuff as it is no longer officially supported by Microsoft
<fagan> pcutler: Actually microsoft said about a month ago they would support it till 2011
<pcutler> darn them  :/
<fagan> Pissed most web devs off
<fagan> Any commiters around? I have a fix for a typo
<fagan> Would it be too late for a string freeze exception?
<fagan> gtg ill mail the list about it
<XiXaQ> setting up networked printing was very, very difficult when following help.ubuntu.com. In the end, it proved to be really easy.
<XiXaQ> the help seems to assume that Ubuntu is being used as a slave system in a Windows environment. It only mentions how to configure a client to use a printer when it's shared by a Windows Server.
<fagan> Hmmm strange https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultimediaApplications shouldnt players that play both music and video be considered media players?
<fagan> And banshee should be moved because it plays videos and music
<fagan> Why is Flash mentioned there?
<fagan> Very strange
<fagan> mdke: *ping*
<mdke> fagan: *pong*
<Zachk18> i'm on the doc-contributors team on lp by the way
<mdke> fagan: I'm not sure I agree - I think it's helpful to have a section for video
<Zachk18> mdke, thank you!
<mdke> fagan: I know it's slightly confusing that some players can do both, but that can still be noted, and most of them have a "default" function (totem = video, banshee = audio etc)
<fagan> mdke: But the problem I see with that is that they dont just do video.
<Zachk18> most of them do
<fagan> Banshee does both
<Zachk18> there are few that do both
<mdke> fagan: why is that a problem?
<fagan> I just think to be politicly correct media players is better
<Zachk18> media players will confuse people
<Zachk18> i can assure you of that
<mdke> fagan: we need to think about what the majority of the users will understand and look for, political correctness doesn't matter too much
<Saj0577_> Zachk18: it would not as most other players are called media players take windows for an example so people are use to the terminology
<mdke> I think that distinguishing between applications whose main function is audio and video is still sensible at the moment
<mdke> some applications could certainly appear in more than one section
<fagan> I just thought it needed to be mentioned.
<mdke> sure
<Saj0577_> what about just having a note saying some do both and have a page that lists the ones that do both?
<fagan> Banshee should at least get a mention as a video player
<mdke> I don't have a problem with mentioning banshee as a video player
<fagan> Cool
<Zachk18> so...i'm looking to get more active with the doc/wiki team
<Zachk18> not that is what we're talking about but i figured i'd mention it
<mdke> Zachk18: the great thing about the wiki is that it gives plenty of scope for jumping in and being active :)
<Zachk18> mdke, well i've done some editing and i'm currently working on a blog with a friend and the udsf
<fagan> Zachk18: check out https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/ too
<Zachk18> launchpad is so slow right now
<Zachk18> who runs the doc team?
<mdke> no one
<Saj0577_> Zachk18: look at the last word you wrote in that question :)
<Zachk18> Saj0577, yeah...team
<fagan> Zachk18: Its a democracy
 * Zachk18 concedes to fagan
<mdke> well, not a democracy. a meritocracy :)
<mdke> as with most of Ubuntu
<mdke> we have a structure which you can find at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization
<fagan> True
<Zachk18> mdke, i know that page.
<fagan> mdke: Could you look at my fix for a typo Bug #447250
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 447250 in ubuntu-docs "Missing 'r' in 'your' in scanner text" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447250
<Zachk18> i'm on the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-contributors team
<fagan> It just adds a letter so id say its safe for the string freeze exception
<mdke> I think it's too late for further string changes at this stage, I'm afraid
<fagan> Ah we really need to pick up on typos earlier
<mdke> changing just one letter means that the whole string needs to be retranslated in each language
<mdke> yeah, we definitely do
<mdke> we'll look at that closely for the next release, hopefully have an earlier proof reading period
<mdke> but we'll get the fix into the lucid branch once it opens
<mdke> thanks for working on it
<fagan> Ill try work through the bug list before lucid begins
<fagan> Oh while your here whats your opinion on Bug #442097
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 442097 in ubuntu-docs "IE6 in Windows document" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442097
<fagan> IE6 and IE7/8 have two very similar processes just the location is different
<fagan> I submitted a patch that adds a section with IE7/8 but its very similar
<mdke> if the steps are very similar, I'd tend to try and have a single section which works for both
<mdke> users don't normally need to be walked through exactly which buttons to click word for word, it's enough that the instructions are clear in the context of the UI
<mdke> but I think the idea is that this particular document will be retired for Lucid
<mdke> and be replaced by the new installation guide
<fagan> that would make sense
<mdke> so I would say let's wait and see on that one
<fagan> Yep ill get another bug to work on in the meantime
<mdke> good stuff
 * mdke tries to figure out why his live usb isn't persistent :(
<Rocket2DMn> hey guys
<mdke> ah, hi Rocket2DMn
<fagan> hey Rocket2DMn
<Rocket2DMn> what did you decide with your patch fagan , gonna keep IE6 support?
<fagan> I was just talking with mdke and he said I should wait till lucid because that doc may be dropped in favor of the installation guide
<fagan> So ill just wait and if its needed ill fix it up
<Rocket2DMn> cool
<fagan> Did we include any docs about Grub2?
<fagan> I wouldnt think we would need any
<fagan> Ooh I just found something out of date.
<mdke> hi starcraftman
<starcraftman> hail mdke, sorry if you and rocket were talking in here. Was on an alt machine. I really need a way to sync my buffers and channels.
<mdke> nope, you didn't miss anything
<mdke> he's been telling me that you've been doing lots of goodwork on the wiki though
<starcraftman> Oh, well ok then. Hehe, I do what I can, more of an IRC guy than mail list. Done a nice big pass over backup sections, still trying to fix up formatting and make it all work nice.
 * fagan hates finding missing docs while in string freeze 
<mdke> he'd like to get you into the ~ubuntu-doc-wiki-admins team to help out with some of the maintenance issues with the wiki, page moving etc
<mdke> I'm up for it if you are :)
<mdke> the key requirements are to understand the tag system (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tag) and the page deletion/moving issues (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/DeletingAndRenaming)
<starcraftman> mdke: Aye, he just told me about that. Suppose would be nice to have power, mwa... oh, I'll be good.
<mdke> heh
<starcraftman> Right, I think I already read this up a while ago when I was prepping a few old pages and cleaning tags for deletion. Important thing is to delink before deltion/move else ya end up with broken links can't be tracked right?
<mdke> starcraftman: would you fancy sending an email to the mailing list with an application to join the team? The things that the email should include are set out here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization
<fagan> Any docs meetings during the UDS (Its going to be my first :) )
<mdke> starcraftman: exactly, yes. Basically to search for links to pages which you are moving or deleting, and use redirects if necessary (or fix the links)
<Saj0577_> mdke: do many people get refused?lol
<mdke> Saj0577_: I don't know, Rocket2DMn is the first person to have gone through the process (it's quite new). But the key thing is to demonstrate significant contribution to the help wiki, to demonstrate familiarity with our processes
<mdke> if that's the case, I don't see any reason why not
<Saj0577_> mdke: i mean for the normal wiki and system teams. (because i understand you go through a vote before become member.make sense/
<mdke> Saj0577_: the process applies to the wiki admins and system doc committers teams, the contributors team is open for all without any discussion
<starcraftman> mdke: sure thing, Hmmm, I'll whip something up slightly more serious. Track most of my contributions on my homepage, that sufficient, or ya want to embed in the email links to my main pages?
<mdke> starcraftman: whatever you find most convenient, I'd say
<fagan> saj0577: You can still submit patches ive been doing that for a while.
<mdke> Rocket2DMn's recommendation carries quite a bit of weight :)
<Saj0577_> fagan: yeah i have been working on it.
 * mdke is loving all the new contributors
<starcraftman> mdke: hehe, I'm flattered. I just do what I can :)
<mdke> good stuff
 * fagan has been submitting patches since the end of jaunty 
<fagan> I love just fixing bugs
<mdke> we love fixing the bugs :)
<starcraftman> mdke: there a vote at a meeting after application?
<Saj0577_> i like doing doc work just sometimes get layout wrong
<mdke> starcraftman: not a vote, just a discussion on the mailing list
<mdke> that reminds me, we haven't added Rocket2DMn to ~ubuntu-core-doc yet
 * mdke attends to it
<starcraftman> mdke: k.
<Saj0577_> Is the process to the documentation committers similar ?
<mdke> Saj0577_: it's all here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization
<Saj0577_> mdke: yeah im reading it atm just checking.
<mdke> cool
<fagan> saj0577 are you familiar with bazaar ?
<Saj0577_> fagan: thats what i was just going to say there. i am rubbish with the whole lp bazaar thing never understoof it fully no matter how many guides i read
<fagan> branch is to get. pull is to get changes. diff is to show what you have done.
<fagan> Thats all you really need for the moment saj0577
<Saj0577_> fagan: so to check something how do you know what to pull though?
<fagan> cd <directory of the branch>
<fagan> bzr pull
<fagan> in terminal
<Saj0577_> fagan: but like how can you cd to it if not coonected. i get real confused lol
 * Rocket2DMn hates CSS
<fagan> saj0577 you need to branch first. Pull is just to update
<fagan> bzr branch lp:ubuntu-docs
<Saj0577_> Rocket2DMn: what you having trouble with?
<Saj0577_> fagan: hang on going to try now
<Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, a website i maintain for a friend's company, it isnt working with IE8
<Saj0577_> so right atm i dont even have bazaar installed.
<Saj0577_> Rocket2DMn: you found which part is causing the problem?
<Rocket2DMn> yeah Saj0577 , i know where the problem is, it's just a matter of getting IE and FF to agree
<fagan> Rocket2DMn: IE doesnt exactly follow standards. Have you tried using safari or chrome?
<fagan> Microsoft are very bad at browsers
<Rocket2DMn> fagan, i know, but it needs to work with IE
<fagan> Ah yeah it is the most used browser even if its horrible
<fagan> The reason why I said try using safari or chrome too is just to test it out
 * fagan thinks webkit is excellent
<Rocket2DMn> it works OK in FF and others
<Saj0577_> fagan: whats name of the whole branch?
<fagan> lp:ubuntu-docs
<Saj0577_> its downloading the branch now
<fagan> Good
<fagan> So when thats downloaded you will have your own ubuntu docs
<fagan> you can edit it on gedit and play around
<Saj0577_> fagan: okay you got time to run through an example of how i would change something and upload it back to the server?
<fagan> Well at the moment you cant upload it.
<fagan> so go to places>home folder
<fagan> then go to ubuntu-docs
<Saj0577_> fagan: im doing it all through terminal im a temrinal guy :)
<fagan> cd ubuntu-docs
<Saj0577_> yep im there
<fagan> ls
<fagan> that gives you a list of the folders
<fagan> choose one that sounds interests you
<Saj0577_> yeah i know. so i know cant upload but thats pick one as a dummy as if we were going to
<Saj0577_> gone for about-ubuntu
<fagan> cd c
<fagan> cd C (sorry)
<Saj0577_> whats dif between c and po?
<fagan> po is for translations
<Saj0577_> oright okay. right im in C
<fagan> gedit about-ubuntu.xml
<Saj0577_> fagan: got it open in nano
<fagan> nano about-ubuntu.xml
 * Saj0577_ never understoof xml
<fagan> its docbook
<fagan> its similar to html
<Saj0577_> oright okays :)
<fagan> so there you can change what you want. When you save the file bzr picks up on it.
<Saj0577_> fagan: do i not need to check before i save that someone else has not already made a change since i pulled it?
<fagan> Well no
<Saj0577_> how come?
<fagan> They more than likely didnt change anything you changed
<fagan> and bzr diffs only contain stuff you change
<Saj0577_> argh right so lets say ive changed some spelling and saved nano and closed it then do i need to do anything?
<fagan> you need to go back to the root of the ubuntu-docs folder
<fagan> so cd .. and cd .. again
<fagan> then bzr diff
<Saj0577_> hen thats that done yep?
<fagan> so it shows you what you changed, then you just copy that into a file ending in .diff and attach it to a bug on launchpad
<fagan> or post it to the mailing list
<fagan> Just ask for a commiter to push it for you
<Saj0577_> okay so just send an email with the copy of it or send an email with an attached .diff?
<j1mc> hi all
<fagan> well you can do either if you want
<fagan> j1mc: hello
<Saj0577_> alright. and then do i just run bzr pull before i start any work like if not checked for few days?
<Saj0577_> j1mc: hey
<j1mc> :)
<fagan> saj0577 yep
<Saj0577_> fagan: well thats nice and easy why cant the guides be that simple. thanks for that by the way that was great :)
<fagan> saj0577 no probs
<Saj0577_> time to sort out claws again get all ym mail back on it
<starcraftman> mdke: k, mail sent to list, I hope it went through.
<starcraftman> I dunno why, sporadically I get trouble.
<Saj0577_> starcraftman: well i got it
<starcraftman> ah good.
<Saj0577_> comes up as unknwon 3000 :S lol
<starcraftman> that is my email account.
<starcraftman> :)
<Saj0577_> lol fair does
<starcraftman> I'm not a fancy ubuntu member yet to get one with starcraftman or so.
<Saj0577_> starcraftman: you use an email client?
<starcraftman> Saj0577_: kontact, got 4 accounts now to manage with it.
 * fagan uses evolution, ubuntu one address book is awesome
<Saj0577_> imap or pop?
<fagan> I use pop
<Saj0577_> why?(just looking for incite)
<fagan> imap is a little bit harder on servers
<fagan> because you are always connected
<fagan> pop you ping the server and ask it if it has anything then close the connection
<Saj0577_> if i use multiple computers want all mail read on one machine to appear as read on them all and all mail in one sentbox in the sentbox off all the other clients what should i use pop or imap?
<fagan> imap
<Saj0577_> thought so :)
<fagan> because the mail is still on the server
<Saj0577_> where as pop copies it onto machine yeah?
<fagan> Yep
<starcraftman> Saj0577_: imap all the way. Pop on another just so I see what came in.
<Saj0577_> sweet i always forget when setting up.
<starcraftman> imap is awesome. gmail did that right. Wish they did ldap already.
<Saj0577_> ldap?
<fagan> starcraftman: you going for the wiki admin team?
<starcraftman> fagan: that is so,
<fagan> starcraftman: Ill +1 that
<starcraftman> fagan: hehe, well discussion is on list.
<fagan> Just sent it on
<Saj0577_> starcraftman: il +1 it cne get client sorted
<starcraftman> Saj0577_: huh? what client?
<Saj0577_> starcraftman: just installing and configgin mail client not done it on this computer pet
<starcraftman> Saj0577_: ah, i see.
<starcraftman> kontact or evolution?
<Saj0577_> starcraftman: nooo claws :)
<Saj0577_> evolution is to heavy i think. and kontact is similar.
<fagan> evolution in karmic has some real interesting stuff
<fagan> you can sync your contacts up with ubuntu one (via couchdb)
<fagan> its very easy
<starcraftman> Saj0577_: ah, cool. K, well hope works, never tried claws.
<Saj0577_> fagan: does it need all the gnome stuff for it to work though?
<fagan> saj0577_: yep
<Saj0577_> pfft :(
<starcraftman> fagan: ya could manually do that though with any app long as the contact data stored easily. I suppose is nice if automated.
<starcraftman> Saj0577_: I know, I want kde client.
<fagan> I know but its nice just to have it there by default
<Saj0577_> dont liek gnome anymore though.
<fagan> Gnome 3.0 is coming
<fagan> lucid+1
<Saj0577_> if its a real improvement might try it.
<fagan> Its awesome already
<fagan> complete redesign of the desktop experience
<fagan> I cant wait for it
<fagan> Im testing it out now
<Saj0577_> wahey got one of my mail accounts to work
<starcraftman> fagan: I dunno, heard lots of complaints. I'm pretty happy with kde to be honest, 4.3. And I used to be a pretty avid gnome user.
<fagan> starcraftman: Me too but its a redesign to use newer technology, redesigns always are controversial.
<fagan> Clutter is the new hotness
<starcraftman> lol
<fagan> The current interface is plain and dated, Gnome-shell is special
<fagan> its flashy and has all the bling of the red light district
<starcraftman> 3.0 is basically gnomeshell?
<fagan> That and a few other new things like zeitgeist. I love zeitgeist
<starcraftman> well now I'm not excited.
<fagan> it journals all of your activities (firefox history, recent documents etc)
<fagan> Its made to make life handy
<starcraftman> fagan: some don't like idea of all your history tracked.
<fagan> You will be able to turn it off
<fagan> and ignore certain things
<fagan> but also it can be used for parental control
<starcraftman> ya, like parental control has ever worked.
<starcraftman> hehe
<fagan> other than zeitgeist and Gnome-shell. They are just streamlining and depreciating.
<starcraftman> there's no replacement for good parenting.
<fagan> but you cant stop curiosity
<fagan> kids will look up dirty words
<starcraftman> fagan: nor should ya. Curiosity makes world go round.
<Saj0577_> fagan: isntr that part of growing up
<fagan> but still its bad for kids <10 to be looking up that sort of thing
<fagan> and some parents want the control
<Saj0577_> oyeah sure at that age
<Saj0577_> but at that age dont really need to be on internet tbh
 * starcraftman shrugs.
<starcraftman> Saj0577_: lol, try and stop em. society is built on net.
<fagan> but most kids now have their social networking
<Saj0577_> social networking is fore 13+ according to the sites
<fagan> googling and tweeting is part of kids vocabulary
<fagan> but most people below that at least where I am from (Ireland) are on those sites
 * fagan thinks about making a blog post about this
<starcraftman> fagan: well, I dunno. not having kids any time soon so suppose it's not a care of mine. I'm pretty liberal though, I wouldn't freak out and lock kids down as I've seen sometimes.
<starcraftman> fagan: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Blogs are evil.
<starcraftman> :p
<starcraftman> I don't mind, just darn if everyone don't have one now.
<fagan> Id suggest just having an alert system to say the kid look at this site
<starcraftman> I wait for someone to make an anti-blog.
<fagan> why? lol
<starcraftman> Because the internetz can!
<starcraftman> come to think of it, I better go domain squat :p
<starcraftman> next thing ya know, I'll be selling it for cool mil.
<fagan> Spam already makes it hard to make a blog
<starcraftman> re-re-captcha to the rescue.
<fagan> Yep
<starcraftman> soon won't be able to click a link on net without a captcha.
<starcraftman> captcha guys make mony off that?
<fagan> dont know
<fagan> I just use akismet
<fagan> Rocket2DMn: I agree with what you were saying but there is no other way to change the timeout
<Rocket2DMn> sure fagan
<Rocket2DMn> fagan, according to the wiki page, you're suppose dot use either /etc/default/grub or /etc/grub.d/ directory with custom entries
<Saj0577_> missed all that cos of netsplit
<fagan> I suppose I should ask someone on the kernel team or whoever takes care of GRUB about what to do
<Rocket2DMn> you didnt miss anyhting Saj0577 that's the first i've said
<Rocket2DMn> sure fagan , though i think in the end it will come down to us pulling information from grub2 documentation (like on that wiki page) and testing it ourselves to make sure it works
<fagan> Thats fine
<fagan> Its simpler sometimes just asking and seeing where that gets you
<Rocket2DMn> were you trying to get something into Karmic documentation for it?
<fagan> nope im working on bugs for lucid
<fagan> im just starting early
<Rocket2DMn> ah ok, i asked mdke yesterday when the karmic branch would be opened and lucid set as the dev branch, but i signed off before i got a repsonse
<Rocket2DMn> until then, I don't think we can really add in lucid documentation yet
<Rocket2DMn> unless we branch from an earlier revision i guess
<fagan> I know ill just keep attaching patches for what I can and when lucid opens commiters can take them
<Rocket2DMn> okie dokie
<fagan> Im just reading the wiki to see what I can find
#ubuntu-doc 2009-10-11
<fagan> Rocket2DMn: So are you guys going to remove the GRUB stuff from karmic? Its kinda redundant keeping it there if its not the default.
<Rocket2DMn> fagan, we'll keep Grub for Karmic since it is only default on fresh installs
<fagan> Oh ok then
<Rocket2DMn> besides we dont have any grub2 documentation in Karmic, we dropped the ball on that one
<Rocket2DMn> We'll have to check out the planned changes for Lucid, with any luck it will be all Grub2 so we don't need to maintain the docs for Grub
<fagan> we should make a bug to keep track of it
<fagan> Ill write one up and assign it to myself for the moment
<fagan> Ah ill just keep track of it using the old bug no use making a new one
<fagan> night night guys
<Saj0577_> night fagan
<starcraftman> night fagan
<mo0nykit> Hello! I'd like to contribute a solution relating to Acer Aspire 4520 and the Nvidia proprietary drivers. Should I add it to the LaptopTestingTeam pages?
<starcraftman> mo0nykit: lo there
<stlsaint> ooohhh hello all
<Saj0577_> hey stlsaint
<starcraftman> hey there stlsaint, don't worry, doc channel kinda quiet often. If ya post though someone usually gets back to ya
<stlsaint> kk
 * Zachk18 is away: I'm off to bed....later dudes
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, do we have any sort of recurring task list that we use to make sure we don't miss anything for a release?
<Rocket2DMn> brb
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: no but it might be a good idea - do you have something specific in mind?
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, something straightforward would suffice, like a checklist on the wiki
<Rocket2DMn> ya know, to make sure we don't miss silly things, like have happened before
<Rocket2DMn> for instance, we left the DRAFT watermark on the h.u.c pages once, i think another time we forgot the change the version variable in the system docs
<Rocket2DMn> if you wanted a LP bug as a reminder, you could do that too, and just open it for each dev cycle
<Rocket2DMn> with a wiki page you could mark each task as complete as you go, then have a bug that links to it, and close the task for a release whent he checklist is complete
<Rocket2DMn> it's just an idea, but I do think we need something so it's not just all in our heads
<Saj0577> Hey guys does that latest email mean we can now edit the ubuntu-doc 's again?
<Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, yeah, depending on how you setup your local copy of the branch, you can get the latest
<Rocket2DMn> if you are bound to lp:ubuntu-docs then you are pulling from the dev (lucid) branch
<Saj0577> Rocket2DMn: okay and that is the wrong one yeah?
<Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, most work goes into the dev branch
<Saj0577> so which branch do i want then to make sure i am being productive?
<Rocket2DMn> the main ubuntu-docs branch
<Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, see https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs
<Saj0577> argh right cos im currently using lp:ubuntu-doc  so i got the right one
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: there is one for the regular distribution I think, but not for doc specific. I think it's a good idea to use a wiki page
<mdke> bbiab
 * Saj0577 hate snetsplits
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rocket2DMn/Sandbox/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Checklist
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: looks good. I'm making a few tweaks...
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I think it will be a very useful page, thanks for working on that
<Rocket2DMn> no problem mdke , i dont know the full process, so it's all yours to deal with
<Rocket2DMn> you can import it to the team wiki area when you're ready
<dutchie> anybody mind merging https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jshholland/xubuntu-docs/fix-363365?
<mdke> dutchie: we're in string freeze at the moment, but it can be merged to the lucid branch when that is created for xubuntu
<dutchie> even for one letter?
<mdke> dutchie: yep, afraid so - changing one letter leads to the whole string needing retranslation in every language
<mdke> and it's unfair to the translators for us to change that so late - we might consider it for a critical bug but not just for a typo
<dutchie> surely any translators will have noticed that it's spelt wrong and worked accordingly
<mdke> yes, but that's not how translations work, unfortunately. Once the english string changes, any translations of the previous string will be lost
<dutchie> that's a pain then
<mdke> the new string needs to be retranslated
<mdke> yeah, it's a pain
<mdke> dutchie: thanks for the work though, we'll merge it when possible
<dutchie> well, it's not really work, but you're welcom
<dutchie> e
<mdke> it all counts :)
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: see what you think of the latest changes. i'd like to add later some intermediate stages for testing and such like, as discussed recently on the ML
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, that looks better.  Are there more tasks that should be on the list?
<Rocket2DMn> other than what you just said
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: can't think of any off the top of my head. I think we'll add them as we think of them
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok, moved into the main wiki section, thanks again
<Rocket2DMn> sure thing
<Rocket2DMn> i keep getting all these new email now, i'm trying to figure out how to organize my mailbox
<Rocket2DMn> sort of adapting as they come
<mdke> commit notifications?
<Rocket2DMn> yeah and other admin-type emails, like users joining and applying and whatnot
<mdke> ah yeah
<mdke> I filter bzr notifications with subject:(Branch ~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs)
<mdke> the team membership emails are a real pita
<mdke> I use from:(noreply@launchpad.net) "has been added as a member of"
<mdke> but that's horrendously ugly
<Rocket2DMn> for branch notifications i added: from:(noreply@launchpad.net) subject:([Branch *) "Your team Ubuntu Documentation Committers is subscribed to branch" has:attachment
<mdke> sounds fine
<Rocket2DMn> bug emails (for those i'm not directly subscribed to): ubject:(* [Bug *) (ubuntu-docs OR kubuntu-docs OR xubuntu-docs OR gnome-user-docs)
<mdke> gmail sucks for filtering
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, but if it gets the job down, it's free and has a lot of space
<mdke> yeah, I love it anyway :)
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, i created an account just for ubuntu stuff
<mdke> ah, I use mine for everything
<Rocket2DMn> ok, i'm gonna delete the draft for that page from my sandbox
<Rocket2DMn> got everything you need?
<mdke> Rocket2DMn: I just moved the page
<Rocket2DMn> oh, ok
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-11
<peppe84> I all. Sorry, is there any channel for communicate any error on software hosted by canonical? Italian wiki documentation, btw.
<jpds> peppe84: rt--at--ubuntu.com
<peppe84> tranks
<peppe84> no irc channel so
<peppe84> Hi all. help.ubuntu.com are ready for 10.10.10? (we would compile for italian language)
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-15
<mistrynitesh> i am trying to fix bug 638258 in kubuntu-docs, which is specific to maverick
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 638258 in kubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Error in kubuntu-docs-netbook (maverick), string #14 (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/638258
<mistrynitesh> now that the maverick is already branched, if I want to patch it, I shouldn't I first do 'bzr branch lp:kubuntu-docs/maverick' and make changes, or the latest branch will do the job?
<mistrynitesh> I already created a merge proposal using the latest version and now I am having doubts :-|
#ubuntu-doc 2010-10-16
<AlanBell> hi folk
<AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide?action=diff&rev2=56&rev1=55
<AlanBell> bit of spam to revert
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-10
<dpm> hi documenters, we're organizing the Ubuntu Open Week next week. Would anyone be up for an IRC session on how to contribute to Ubuntu documentation?
<dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Timetable
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-13
<Pici> Hey folks, can we get https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes updated with the new Oneiric hashes? or should I bug -release about this?
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-14
<YoBoY> hi, I have an idea and I need a docbook/mallard guru. The idea is simple, build the system documentation in my language but for each translated part,  to be able to read the original and link each one to the translation in launchpad to let people do a proposition if they find it's wrong or if the translation is missing. Someone can tell me if it's possible with xslt/make/actual process ?
<shaunm> YoBoY: possible, not trivial
<YoBoY> sure, the idea is simple, making it reality is a different story, and I really don't know where I have to start ^^"
<YoBoY> perhaps working directly with the .xml or .pages, or with the html...
<YoBoY> its why I need a guru :D
<shaunm> well, that's me, I guess
<YoBoY> cool :)
<shaunm> 1) figure out what the heck the html is going to look like. are you going to try to pack all paragraphs into tables to view them side-by-side?
<shaunm> just repeat each paragraph and have them stacked?
<YoBoY> I think a tab style should be better, with the original language not displayed by default
<shaunm> ok
<shaunm> a tab for each paragraph?
<YoBoY> yes, or something like that
<YoBoY> or just 2 flags on on side of the translated paragraph to switch
<shaunm> so you'll need to customize the xslt that builds the html
<shaunm> and you'll need it to be able to get to the english page
<shaunm> you can probably get away with just customizing the templates for <p>, <screen>, and <code> in mal2html.block.mode
<YoBoY> and for the part "link to the launchpad translation" ?
<shaunm> (the only way you're going to be 100% accurate on what constitutes a message in the po file is to hook into the translation system, xml2po or itstool. but with mallard, matching those three will be almost always right)
<shaunm> well, I'm not the expert on the launchpad part
<YoBoY> it's easy it's numbered like in the .po, but this information is lost after the translation processing
<YoBoY> so, I need perhaps to add it on the .xml or .pages generated
<YoBoY> I'll search the best way, thanks for your expertise :)
<czajkowski> c
<jrgifford> This looks pretty serious - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/874653
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874653 in ubuntu-docs "ISO hash for 11.10 missing in Ubuntu Help wiki" [Undecided,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-doc 2011-10-15
<Rocket2DMn> mdke, for some reason it's not letting me edit the UbuntuHashes page anymore, have the permissions changed?
#ubuntu-doc 2012-10-10
<r7_> Hello, I'm sorry to interrupt but I was hoping someone here could direct to me to a link where I can see all of the Ubuntu 12.04 update changelogs
<r7_> Hello, I'm sorry to interrupt but I was hoping someone here could direct to me to a link where I can see all of the Ubuntu 12.04 update changelogs
<pmatulis> anyone else using 12.10 having trouble building the docs for the serverguide?
<jbicha> pmatulis: it works here, are you getting any specific errors? maybe you're missing a build dependency
<pmatulis> jbicha: i can't even validate the xml.  i'm running an strace right now but it hangs and takes time to complete
<pmatulis> hangs here:
<pmatulis> stat("/bin/xmllint", 0x7fff6ff8df70)    = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<pmatulis> stat("/usr/bin/xmllint", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=64336, ...}) = 0
<pmatulis> clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0x7f5c13b629d0) = 31589
<pmatulis> wait4(-1, ^C <unfinished ...>
<jbicha> pmatulis: I'm just guessing here, but do you have gtk-doc-tools installed?
<pmatulis> jbicha: no
<pmatulis> jbicha: hm, i don't think i'm well set up here.  testing
<pmatulis> jbicha: ok, false alarm.  thanks for the pointer.  i simply did not have enough packages installed (but not gtk-doc-tools)
<jbicha> gtk-doc-tools has some useful dependencies so that's why I recommended that
<knome> jbicha, hey, you still around?
<jbicha> knome: yes
<knome> jbicha, great!
<knome> jbicha, any possibilities you could look at bug 1063453 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1063453 in xubuntu-docs "references to 3rd-party intellectual property need to be displayed with trademark" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063453
<knome> jbicha, we probably need a proper CHANGELOG entry, and we need it uploaded today
<jbicha> um, I'm ok with revision 14 of lp:xubuntu-docs but I think revision 13 is a bad idea
<jbicha> it's totally ok to talk about Windows or Apple or iPods without saying WindowsÂ® or iPodâ¢
<jbicha> Apple and Microsoft refer to themselves all the time without using funny symbols next to their names and those symbols would make things harder to read
<knome> jbicha, ok, i'm fine with your judgement
<jbicha> I commented on the bug
<knome> jbicha, if there is a good way to revert rev 13, go ahead ;)
<jbicha> I'd prefer to let Dano do that, he made a few other changes, like changing pdf to PDF
<knome> well, it looks like he isn't available now, and we've been asked to push the new stuff in before tomorrow
<jbicha> ok, that makes sense
<knome> jbicha, ok, good. would you have time to get that done?
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-08
<bkerensa> godbyk: good morning
<CrazyLemon> hey guys - i saw on mailing list a few emails talking about screenshot script that works in raring.
<CrazyLemon> any idea where can i get that script?
<CrazyLemon> nevermind
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-09
<eagles0513875> phillw: hey :D belkinsa :D
<eagles0513875> hey pleia2 :D
<pleia2> :)
<eagles0513875> oh look its Darkwing_ :D
<eagles0513875> i feel quite at home here amongst friends :D
<phillw> hi eagles0513875, hello again pleia2 :)
<eagles0513875> i think im stuck here till 3 am :(
<eagles0513875> and i have tons to do tomorrow
<eagles0513875> pleia2: im wondering if there is one platform that the project as a whole could use
<eagles0513875> i was thinking a form of a DMS (document management system) based on  CMIS
<eagles0513875> question is would canonical sponsor a project that can be developed by the community?
<pleia2> ok, off call
<pleia2> so the way it would work is that a team member either puts up an instance themselves, and the doc team reviews it to see if it's suitable
<pleia2> or one of us works with mhall119 or someone at Canonical to see about getting a test instance up in the Canonical datacenter after the code is reviewed by them (this takes a long time)
<pleia2> now eventually we do need to work with canonical to get the code reviewed and approved anyway, but having someone personally set up one of these instnces would at least see if the doc community likes it before going through the hassle of involving canonical
<eagles0513875> pleia2: maybe so but I think having a document management system would really help
<mhall119> eagles0513875: yes, canonical often hosts community-developed or maintained projects
 * pleia2 passes mhall119 a stiff drink
<pleia2> mhall119: talking about sumo or similar again
<mhall119> myself or balloons would be happy to work with you guys on it
<eagles0513875> mhall119: what kind of restrictions would we be talking about in terms of a document management system if one were to be used as an alternative
<mhall119> pleia2: ah, cool, any other options besides sumo?
<eagles0513875> cuz i have tested a bit of alfresco but the core backend stuff is java based
<eagles0513875> mhall119: there is alfresco which is really nice
<pleia2> mhall119: eagles0513875 is the man with the ideas :) I shall leave you to it
<mhall119> eagles0513875: the big thing these days is that we'd need a Juju charm to deploy it
<eagles0513875> not really
<mhall119> and ideally we'd use packages in the repositories
<eagles0513875> let me show you something
<eagles0513875> ahh ok :(
<mhall119> but having a juju charm is the biggest thing, since our IS has switched to using cloud deployments
<balloons> yes, a juju charm is the ticket in
<eagles0513875> bah ok :-/
<mhall119> eagles0513875: fortunately I've been learning how to make IS-approved charms recently, for the API website
<balloons> is what your wanting not already charmed?
<balloons> *you are wanting
<eagles0513875> balloons: not sure
<eagles0513875> never really started using juju sadly :(
<eagles0513875> i know someone who works for canonical that does alot of that development
<mhall119> eagles0513875: I'm happy to help when I can
<eagles0513875> not sure if you guys would know him lol
<mhall119> jcastro?
<eagles0513875> no fwreade
<eagles0513875> he is based here in malta where i am
<mhall119> ah, I usually go bug jcastro or marcoceppi about juju things
<balloons> +1 ^^
<eagles0513875> well one perk with alfresco
<eagles0513875> http://www.alfresco.com/products/community
<eagles0513875> that is the community version
<eagles0513875> is that it will help with even the versioning of screen shots
<eagles0513875> as wlel it has a built in wiki and supports creation of multiple projects
<mhall119> eagles0513875: whatever the docs team decides will work best, we will help you get it deployed
<eagles0513875> in this case the doc team community and i dunno what else there is doc wise
<balloons> btw, pleia2 did you decide on a meeting date / time?
<eagles0513875> either there is that or we go through the headache of designing something from the ground up using libcmis
<pleia2> balloons: no, brain is full
<eagles0513875> mhall119: it seems like it shouldnt be to hard to make a charm and install alfresco
<eagles0513875> its a bin download
<pleia2> mhall119: so at this point everything is up in the air docs wise, we're not really sure where we are going, same old, merge desktop docs and manual, try out something like alfresco and migrate everything to it....
<mhall119> cool
<mhall119> pleia2: ack
<pleia2> so initially alfresco needs to be deployed as a test bed so we can evaluate our options
<mhall119> I looked into sumo about a year ago, and so did bkerensa and some others, but it was determined to be not suitable at the time
<mhall119> otherwise I don't have any input on solutions
<pleia2> bkerensa said it's better now, but still has deep mozilla roots that would need to be untangled to work for us
<pleia2> which is obviously not optimal :)
<belkinsa> Make sure you guys talk to the folks that deal with the management of  the community before doing this.
<belkinsa> Just a reminder.
<mhall119> when I looked, a lot of the mozilla integration was optional
<eagles0513875> mhall119: the problem is wiht alfresco it uses java i believe in the core of it so you would need a rather beefy machine i think to run it sadly
<pleia2> belkinsa: that's what we're doing right now and on the mailing list
<eagles0513875> especially if its going to be slammed with alot of visitors
<belkinsa> Of the Ubuntu-Doc team?
<pleia2> belkinsa: yes, that's what this channel is for :)
<pleia2> I asked everyone to join here so everyone can participate in the discussion
<belkinsa> Right, right.
<eagles0513875> mhall119: is it possible for now to request a test instance for alfresco
<pleia2> we're not making any decisions today, just exploring options
<belkinsa> The mailing list seems to have delays in delivery of the threads.
<belkinsa> And I see.
<mhall119> eagles0513875: I can create a test instance, but I'd have to manage it myself, I can't give out ssh access
<eagles0513875> pleia2: i know that im just saying it woudl be great to let you guys have a look around alfresco
 * balloons notes, which mailing list? 
<balloons> I need to sub
<pleia2> eagles0513875: *nods*
<eagles0513875> mhall119: thats ok
<pleia2> balloons: ubuntu-doc
<balloons> ty
<pleia2> mhall119: yeah, you can do it in your free time
<mhall119> eagles0513875: so if you can give me a fool-proof set of instructions for deploying I can try it out
<eagles0513875> mhall119: http://www.alfresco.com/products/community to download it :D its a bin installer so it shouldnt be hard to get installed on your system
<mhall119> pleia2: yeah, it shouldn't take up all 5 seconds of my free time will it?
<pleia2> :)
<balloons> mhall119, only half
<mhall119> eagles0513875: have you tried installing it on your local system?
<eagles0513875> yes on mac lol
<eagles0513875> and windows
<mhall119> eagles0513875: how about on Ubuntu?
<pleia2> eagles0513875: that's it, you're out :)
<eagles0513875> i can fire up my test vps and give it a try
<eagles0513875> :(
<pleia2> just kidding!
<eagles0513875> lol
<mhall119> eagles0513875: if you can do that and let me know the process, I will try it on a test instance
<mhall119> eagles0513875: I can give it a public IP too (as long as we have some available) so people can poke at the web interface
<mhall119> eagles0513875: email me, mhall119@ubuntu.com after you've tried installing it on Ubuntu to let me know how to do it
<eagles0513875> ya it has a public ip already
<mhall119> what?
<eagles0513875> its a linode vps hehe up in the uk conincidentally lol
<eagles0513875> has a public ip already and ipv6 ip too
<mhall119> ah, ok
<eagles0513875> my email mhall119 is jaquilina@eagleeyet.net
 * balloons notices https://github.com/loftuxab/alfresco-ubuntu-install
<balloons> I'll bet you can turn that into a charm rather nicely
<eagles0513875> who me
<balloons> someone has already done a ton of work on the install process
<eagles0513875> would a charm really be necessary if there is a binary installer already in place
<eagles0513875> you can run the binary installer i know in text mode
<mhall119> eagles0513875: yeah, a charmm is absolutely necessary if we want IS to deploy it to our servers
<eagles0513875> ok
<eagles0513875> will need to look into that tomorrow
<eagles0513875> can you guys clarify something for me which is a bit offtopic in this channel
<eagles0513875> how do charms work? and how does one code one
<belkinsa> Does Alfresco have some comment system for users to ask questions for a community wiki page?  Or do we need something else for that if we go that way.
<mhall119> eagles0513875: #juju can get you all the answers to charms you want, but basically they're a set of config files and scripts that let you easily install and wire-up multiple services on a variety of cloud providers
<eagles0513875> can they be used as normal non cloud deployment scripts
<mhall119> it can now, yes, jcastro can tell you all about that
<belkinsa> I see, I was just thinking about having the community wiki like a blog which was your idea.
<belkinsa> Then again, would that defeat the propose of Ask Ubuntu?
<eagles0513875> mhall119: ill bug my friend fwreade :D who is in juju
<eagles0513875> belkinsa: no
<mhall119> eagles0513875: works for me
<eagles0513875> belkinsa: my idea is based in a way off serverfault i believe
<eagles0513875> like this http://serverfault.com/questions/544993/how-to-choose-the-virtual-host-apache-points-https-connections-to
<eagles0513875> then again that is very much like a forum site
<mhall119> eagles0513875: a big desire, at least last year, was having something that supports translations too
<eagles0513875> humm
<eagles0513875> how are translations currently done
<eagles0513875> is pootle used?
<mhall119> no idea what that is
<eagles0513875> we need to be careful though cuz here we are going to end up trying to do too much and nothign gets done
<eagles0513875> mhall119: http://pootle.translatehouse.org/
<eagles0513875> the document foundation uses it and its very nice and easy to work with
<eagles0513875> i think for now our main focus keeping in mind translations is the documentation
<eagles0513875> btw when is vUDS
<pleia2> nov 19-21
<eagles0513875> pleia2: i think we need to coordinate a meeting on google hangouts or something
<eagles0513875> man i dunno what im doing so far ahead
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> I think our first step should be an IRC meeting :)
<eagles0513875> i take things one day at a time
<mhall119> eagles0513875: you can propose a meeting on the community track to discuss this
<pleia2> with an agenda nd stuff
<eagles0513875> pleia2: that works as well to start :)
 * eagles0513875 goes to setup alfresco really quickly on my server then will worry about the charm related stuff later.
<pleia2> I'll add to my list to set up a doodle poll and email the list about scheduling a meeting
<eagles0513875> :)
<eagles0513875> sry for adding more to your to do list pleia2
<pleia2> hehe, it happens :)
<belkinsa> eagles0513875 I see.
<belkinsa> And uds.ubuntu.com is the link
<belkinsa> pleia2 I agree, we need a meeting soon.
<belkinsa> And thank you for taking the lead.
<eagles0513875> mhall119: i wonder though is java something we would want to avoid in what we use?
<pleia2> they already use jenkins, can't get much worse than that ;)
<eagles0513875> well what i worry about is seeing as thats java if its hit really hard with users it will really eat up system resources
<eagles0513875> mhall119: you guys should look into gerrit its very interesting and handy too to work with :D easy to push patches to it for review
<mhall119> java should be fine, as long as it runs on openjdk
<pleia2> gerrit <3
<eagles0513875> that is a good question let me ask now about that mhall119 but i found documentation where i can create a charm in bash for deployment :D
<eagles0513875> mhall119: we need to go a different route
<eagles0513875> mhall119: alfresco works with open jdk but there are problems with it under heavy load :(
<mhall119> :/
<eagles0513875> mhall119: I am more then willing to develop something from scratch
<eagles0513875> using libcmis
<eagles0513875> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Management_Interoperability_Services
<eagles0513875> i mean that
<eagles0513875> i need to hatch up another idea i think
<eagles0513875> mhall119: any languages that should be avoided?
<mhall119> whitespace
<mhall119> :)
<mhall119> python is generally preferred
<mhall119> plus we have a lot of python devs around to recruit help from
<eagles0513875> ok :)
<eagles0513875> i was thinking django
<eagles0513875> but i think we would need to port CMIS which is c++ :(
<mhall119> django would make me happy :)
<mhall119> we have a lot of django apps, so it would fit right in
<eagles0513875> :)
<eagles0513875> mhall119: how would one go about starting this project ?
<mhall119> django-admin startproject
<eagles0513875> mhall119: im saying in terms of canonical
<eagles0513875> lol
<mhall119> seriously though, the first step is to document your requirements, which means talking to the rest of your team and gathering requirements, then putting them into a wiki page
<eagles0513875> ok
<eagles0513875> pleia2: phillw belkinsa we need an urgent meeting :)
<mhall119> eagles0513875: there isn't really anything non-standard that needs to be done for Canonical
<eagles0513875> ok. but is bzr a must use
<mhall119> yeah
<belkinsa> Sure, need a channel made?
<eagles0513875> channel made for what belkinsa
<eagles0513875> we dont need to register one
<eagles0513875> mhall119: ok who manages then the bzr branches etc
<belkinsa> Why
<eagles0513875> is another channel necessary
<belkinsa> Maybe if it's private meeting
<eagles0513875> then we might as well use skype lol
<eagles0513875> one big chat room
<eagles0513875> mhall119: last question my apologies for all the stupid questions
<belkinsa> It's up to you though.
<phillw> I send my apologies, but as previously mentioned my time for this is going to be very limited for the next 8 days. I do repeat that having these discussions in what is coming up to 'quiet time' for docs, thinking ahead for 14.04 and not going for the "But we've always done it this way" is a great thing.
<eagles0513875> belkinsa: if you want to register one speak with pleia2
<belkinsa> You don't need too.  You can just create one and leave to destroy it.
<eagles0513875> phillw: i think at the rate things are going alfresco is out as it has issues under load with open jdk but its looking like developing a document management system from scratch
<eagles0513875> which i think would be best for all documentation teams to keep track of revisions of documents etc
<eagles0513875> belkinsa: exactly lol
<phillw> pleia2: I apologise if my phrasing on my initial email seemed 'crass', but as you have seen; there was method in my madness :)
<eagles0513875> mhall119: do you mind if i pm you i have a discussion on another note if you do not mind.
<phillw> eagles0513875: as I mentioned, there was a system that mozilla used, but I have no idea how far forward that has progressed.
<eagles0513875> does it do version control of documents images etc?
<belkinsa> Maybe a later time, eagles, maybe via e-mail, just to three of us.
<eagles0513875> belkinsa: ya that would be best i think
<pleia2> belkinsa: we'll have the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> all meetings in the project are logged, we need to be transparent :)
<belkinsa> Right, duh.
<pleia2> plus not everyone will be able to make it (work, timezones, etc) so we'll need a way for them to catch up anyway
<pleia2> phillw: thanks, just not the kind of phrasing we want on a team where a lot of great people have put in work, we're all trying here, please keep that in mind before you tell people they don't have their act together :)
<pleia2> it's not the way we treat each other here
<phillw> pleia2: I'll send an apology to  the team, just tied up with crazy incomming doc people and testers.
<pleia2> phillw: thank you
<eagles0513875> no offense to you guys im not much of a documentation writing guy
<eagles0513875> ill gladly contribute technical stuff such as coding etc if need be.
<belkinsa> Heh, it's cool.  I need to say the same about more for the outreach for the greater good.
<eagles0513875> pleia2: at this point could we start with emails between us to get the requirements we need for this project?
<pleia2> eagles0513875: go for it, I suggest doing it on the ubuntu-doc list in a new thread so everyone can chime in
<pleia2> like Subject: Doc system requirements
<eagles0513875> who is volunteering to take notes on the thread lol :p
<belkinsa> I can if needed.
<eagles0513875> belkinsa: ironically wanted to nominate you but i wasnt sure if you would have been to happy
 * pleia2 back to lunch&work
<eagles0513875> ok let me draft up the email and send it
<eagles0513875> pleia2: to the doc's list correct.
<belkinsa> Look, I love to do things for projects.
<belkinsa> ;)
<eagles0513875> ok next time ill nominate you
<eagles0513875> so you have no right to get upset at me now
<belkinsa> xD
<belkinsa> I'm not.
<eagles0513875> im saying in the future silly
<belkinsa> I'm being good hearted.
<eagles0513875> :D
<eagles0513875> i am as well :)
<eagles0513875> email sent belkinsa pleia2
<belkinsa> Cool
<eagles0513875> mhall119: question will canonical be willing to devote man power which they pay for to such an endeavour so to speak of developing a custom document management system?
<mhall119> eagles0513875: to develop one, probably not
<mhall119> we just don't have enough manpower to go around
<eagles0513875> well that is another thing i was curious about as well
<eagles0513875> mhall119: belkinsa pleia2 phillw will talk with you gusy tomorrow finishing up here at work
<belkinsa> See ya
<phillw> pleia2: sorry for the rather long reply following on from my apology, it was just a case of not spamming the mailing lists with ideas etc. I've had plenty of time to think and read the email threads that were started.
<bkerensa> :)
<pleia2> phillw: your email was great
<belkinsa> +1
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-10
<eagles0513875> pleia2: seems like there is resistance to a custom developed document management system
<pleia2> eagles0513875: I only see the comment from bkerensa
<pleia2> it certaainly is an ambitious plan :) I think defining the requirements at this stage so you can evaluate existing options is good
<eagles0513875> pleia2: i am reevaluating my concept at this point
<eagles0513875> if we can work with alfresco and get the issues ironed out with open jdk erroring under high load
<eagles0513875> i think alfresco would be a very viable option
<eagles0513875> mhall119: balloons either of you around
<pleia2> ok
<mhall119> eagles0513875: in a meeting atm
<eagles0513875> no problem mhall119 i might be able to provide you with the documentation of alfresco that might help you get a charm created
<balloons> eagles0513875, in meetin'
<eagles0513875> balloons: ok sry
<eagles0513875> pleia2: alfresco is very nice to work with
<eagles0513875> pleia2:  it has great potential in this application. for alot of projects and versioning control of documents as well as images eliminating the need for bzr all together
<eagles0513875> we need to put it under high load and debug what issues alfresco is having with open jdk
<pleia2> I think sorting out requirements is an important first step, we do need to support things like translations
<pleia2> and make srure the translations community is ok with a translations system outside of bzr
<eagles0513875> let me ask something really quickly
<eagles0513875> pleia2: what format do the current translation files take?
<eagles0513875> if they are .po files i think we could setup a seperate system entierly
<eagles0513875> using pootle
<pleia2> I don't know anything about translations
 * pleia2 only speaks english :)
<eagles0513875> i have done a bit of translating of libreoffice
<eagles0513875> pootle is vry easy to make sure no strings are missed and can be done either offline or online
<eagles0513875> pleia2: http://pootle.translatehouse.org/
<eagles0513875> have no experience with system setup of this stuff.
<eagles0513875> http://pootle.translatehouse.org/discover.html pleia2
<pleia2> eagles0513875: honestly I don't have time to learn about them either, you'll really want to engage with them directly
<eagles0513875> ya i dont either
<eagles0513875> tbh
<eagles0513875> atm catchign up on stuff for a deadline of two days ago
<pleia2> even if I understood, I can't speak for preferences or workflows :)
<pleia2> overhauling documentation is a massive job and you will need to recruit a team to work with if you want to propose something
<eagles0513875> there is you phillw belkinsa lol
<eagles0513875> im sure hall and the baloon master would be willing to join us
<eagles0513875> dont want to highlight them as they are in a meeting
<pleia2> I can devote time to improving the existing docs, but not this whole new system
<pleia2> I've never really liked the comment-style docs and I remain unconvinced that months of work this will take will actually lead to something better
<pleia2> but if it's something you want to do, I fully support the attempt :)
<pleia2> just can't work on it directly myself
<eagles0513875> i would love to do it :)
<eagles0513875> it will be way easier to manage the teams and documentation
<eagles0513875> with alfresco you setup projects
<eagles0513875> and each project has its own wiki etc
<eagles0513875> and then you add people to each respective project etc
<shaunm> eagles0513875: what's wrong with the current bzr-based workflow?
<eagles0513875> shaunm: dont you think its a bit steep of a learning curve for someone who has no idea how to work with version control
<eagles0513875> let alone using the commandline with it
<shaunm> eagles0513875: in my experience, these things aren't terribly difficult to teach.
<shaunm> I mean, there are always trade-offs between making systems easier for beginners and making them useful for efficiently producing great results
<eagles0513875> pleia2: what the heck is the deal with ubuntu splitting off dovecot for instance into a million different packages
<eagles0513875> hey belkinsa
<belkinsa> Hey, need anything from me?
<eagles0513875> no just saying hi
<belkinsa> I see.
<eagles0513875> and swearing as to why canonical has opted to fragment dovecot into even more packages then before
 * belkinsa is completely clueless here
<pleia2> eagles0513875: in the case of dovecot there are lots of different add-ons for it, not all of which everyone wants to use, different database backends, different protocol support, much much better to just be able to install what you want to use + run than a monster of a package that has everything
<pleia2> (and it wasn't Ubuntu or Canonical, those packages come from Debian
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-11
<eagles0513875> yes pleia2i understand that but then again this goes back to the documentation
<eagles0513875> the community docs dont mention anything of the sort at all about the dovecot-mysql package
<pleia2> eagles0513875: submit a bug about it, it's just humans working on bugs, we don't know what is missing if someone doesn't point it out
<eagles0513875_> hey guys
<eagles0513875_> hey balloons and mhall119
<mhall119> hey eagles0513875_
<eagles0513875_> hows it going
<mhall119> busy time of year for us :)
<eagles0513875_> mhall119: i have some docs i can pass onto you if you would like to create a charm for alfresco deployment
<eagles0513875_> we can use openjdk with alfresco but we need to test it under heavy load as i was told that it errors when under load when using open jdk
<mhall119> eagles0513875_: it'll be on my back-burner, so it'll take a while if you wait for me to do it
<eagles0513875_> mhall119: mabe i can take a stab at it
<eagles0513875_> woudl a bash script work for a charm?
<mhall119> that would be better :)
<mhall119> eagles0513875_: you'll need a few bash scripts, but yes bash is fine
<eagles0513875_> few bash scripts O_o
<eagles0513875_> one long one for installation wont work
<mhall119> eagles0513875_: read up on how charm hooks work, you'll need multiple hook scripts
<eagles0513875_> im guessing i would need to seutp a bzr repo
<mhall119> that will help, version control is always good
<eagles0513875_> im addicted to it
<eagles0513875_> woudl you recommend a repo on launchpad or it doesnt have to be
<eagles0513875_> reason i ask is that im more familiar with git then bzr
<eagles0513875_> might have some very promising news for you mhall119
<mhall119> eagles0513875_: you can create a new project on Launchpad if you want
<mhall119> that will give you a place to push bzr branches
<eagles0513875_> ok
<eagles0513875_> well on a good news note
<eagles0513875_> alfresco seems like supports open jdk
<eagles0513875_> but the persom im talking to heard otherwise
<eagles0513875_> hey pleia2
#ubuntu-doc 2013-10-12
<edman007> Hi, so https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware says the full page is on doc.ubuntu.com which gives me a DNS error and is thus wrong, either the site is down or the help page is wrong
<godbyk> edman007: I've updated the link to point to <https://help.ubuntu.com/13.10/ubuntu-help/addremove-install.html>.  Thanks for reporting the error!
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-08
<qwebirc934011> damn
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-10
<ki7mt> Hello all, Copyright file question. We have a devel package that static links to a library. The Lib package is in Debian, but an earlier version. We contacted the project team that provides the Libs, and they are ok with what we are doing, as they consider it using a snapshot of their development trunk. How to I address this in out devel package with respect to the copyright file?
<ki7mt> .. how do I address this in our
<ki7mt> Whoops, sorry wrong channel .. my bad.
#ubuntu-doc 2014-10-11
<qengho> Not sure where to report a HTTP 500.  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor
<pleia2> qengho: try loading it again, it's a huge wiki not built on software for huge wikis so it times out sometimes (works fine for me)
<pleia2> Canonical knows about the problem, they've added more aggressive caching and things, but it still happens here and there
<qengho> pleia2: thanks. Third request was the charm.
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-06
<dsmythies> Reminder: Doc team meeting over in #ubuntu-meeting-2 in just under an hour from now (57 minuutes).
<pmatulis> thanks dsmythies
<pmatulis> i'm on the road now but will try to be there in the background
<pmatulis> (seattle)
<dsmythies> Doc team meeting over in #ubuntu-meeting-2 now
<pleia2> anyone with an ubuntu member cloak can change the topics in meeting channels, but lmk what's wrong and I can help fix things post-meeting as needed
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: No need to followup after the meeting, as shaunm_ comments clarified, correct?
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: Agreed. I misunderstood you first.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: Any news about our e-mail issues? I am still not convienced that the root issue is at your ISPs end and not mine.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: No news. After a week, the customer service people realized that they needed to pass it to technically skilled persons. No feedback yet. I'm not convinced either, but I'm certainly not sure.
<dsmythies> GunnarHj: O.K. thanks.
<GunnarHj> dsmythies: I have sendmail on my virtual server, so one possibility is to configure it to allow me to use my own server for sending emails. But I'm hesitating - I don't know the stuff good enough to be sure I wouldn't open for abuse.
<ahoneybun> someone said something about me?
<pleia2> ahoneybun: grep tells me there was during the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting-2
<ahoneybun> I know but noone said what it was about
<pleia2> ahoneybun: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/10/06/%23ubuntu-meeting-2.html#t17:38
<ahoneybun> I did mail the list about me not being there
<ahoneybun> I've seen it
<ahoneybun> I have a log
<pleia2> oh, ok
<ahoneybun> that 'ted' person is not in here
<pleia2> the log acknowledges your email saying you couldn't make it and asks if you're still interested
<ahoneybun> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> no, ted doesn't lurk heree
<ahoneybun> in what
<ahoneybun> sphinx/
<ahoneybun> ?
<pleia2> do you want me to copy the log into here? x_x
<ahoneybun> "<pmatulis> tedmcox: ahoneycutt (spelling?) is also interested in this project"
<ahoneybun> pmatulis: the sphinx move?
<pleia2> "converting from docbook to RST markdown"
<ahoneybun> where does it say that
<pleia2> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/10/06/%23ubuntu-meeting-2.html#t17:37
<pleia2> follow what pmatulis is saying
<ahoneybun> oh
<ahoneybun> got it
<ahoneybun> cntl+f
<ahoneybun> ctrl
<ahoneybun> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> sure
<ahoneybun> I've already had great success with sphinx: http://192.254.78.155/
#ubuntu-doc 2015-10-11
<Lazza> Hi there, I would like to personally thank the Ubuntu wiki community for being open, friendly and polite. Today I was happy because, after spending a big amount of time on research on the topic, I enhanced the wiki to include information on how to download the latest BIOS upgrades for Samsung laptops (information that was defined not easily available). After that, one other author of the page (who believes he is its "owner", in true wiki spirit) made
<Lazza> subsequent edits to first delete some parts of the text to make it less clear and finally dropping the entire content because he felt so jealous of his page that he didn't like it. So thank you, this made me realize what a truly open and positive community this is.
<Lazza> It's nice to see that when you spend your time doing something helpful for other people, this is appreciated!
<pmatulis> Lazza: thanks for that good feedback
<Lazza> Pmatulis you're welcome ;-) sarcasm apart, this will be my first and last time to contribute to the Ubuntu wiki
<Lazza> There is no point in spending time to improve the wiki if the next little boss of the page deletes everything
<Lazza> If people are not able to realize that a page is not "theirs" and improving material is not a personal offence to them, I'd better spend my time somewhere else
<pmatulis> Lazza: how many times has that happened to you?
<Lazza> Pmatulis if with "that" you mean researching information about technical problems and writing tutorials for Ubuntu users, that happens routinely. If you mean that somebody vandalises what I write on the wiki, this was the first time. One is enough.
<Lazza> I don't care about vandals, but I care about the time I lost and the fact that other Ubuntu users in need won't find such information. Next time I will write it on my website and in my language so only a few will benefit from the material
<pmatulis> Lazza: well, try not to let one individual tarnish the entire ubuntu wiki. i know it must be frustrating, to say the least. i've seen this happen before and the issue was raised on the ubuntu-doc mailing list
<pmatulis> Lazza: your stuff can always be reverted if we can resolve the dispute
<pmatulis> civily
<Lazza> pmatulis: can you suggest a way to do that? I sent an email to this person after he started to delete parts of the material that I added and *of course* I was totally ignored
<pmatulis> Lazza: yes, the ubuntu-doc mailing list
<pmatulis> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact
#ubuntu-doc 2017-10-10
<edik> does somebody know when the next meeting is? I've found 3 various dates :-D
