#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-15
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell_: good morning
<robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: hi rick
<rickspencer3> how was you weekend?
<robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: good, I managed to annoy a lot of people with a compiz flood on Friday though.  I didn't realize launchpad likes to notify everyone of duplicate status (I think it shouldn't) and I merged 3 bug reports with 100 duplicates each.  Lots of angry email this morning :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> sorry about that
<rickspencer3> I've been working on pm-dashboard and quickly
<robert_ancell_> It happens, it happened enough times with GNOME bugzilla :)
<robert_ancell_> No more threading issues?
<rickspencer3> I'm trying to figure out the "best" pattern for pygtk and uimanager
<rickspencer3> no, that one issue that you found was the source of all my worries
<rickspencer3> in terms of the design patter, I'm think that you can create a file for a widget you want to subclass, like a window
<rickspencer3> and then create a .ui file with the UI definition with the exact same name (so MyWidge.py, MyWidge.ui) and write the code to load in the ui from the file
<rickspencer3> that seems like the best system with current pygtk stuff, but it would be mean no using glade
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<robert_ancell_> I would think Glade would be a big help for fast development so we would want to use it at much as possible
<robert_ancell_> There is an issue with subclassing though as Glade doesn't support it
<rickspencer3> yeah, except you can only create a file that has windows and dialogs, and you can inherit
<rickspencer3> right, no subclassing, and no designed just a decendent of say HBox
<robert_ancell_> VB doesn't have subclassing right? That doesn't seem to be an issue for VB apps?
<rickspencer3> VB does
<rickspencer3> when you go Window->New WIndow, it create a sub class for form
<robert_ancell_> How do you do it?  (I haven't used VB since Win3.1/95 days)
<rickspencer3> you just use the "New Form" command, and it creates a form derived from the class Form
<robert_ancell_> but what value is the form subclass you have created? Do you treat it differently from any other form?
<rickspencer3> for one thing, it supports properties on itself without having to proxy them
<rickspencer3> this is really important for things like Dialog, which have complex to use functions, like "run()" (or whatever it is)
<rickspencer3> subclassing widgets let's you divide your code up into logical self-contained and reusable chungs
<rickspencer3> chunks even
<robert_ancell_> We could have a FooWindow class that copies all the method/property links on instanciation in Python.  It would have no runtime overhead however it wouldn't be instanceof(gtk.Window)
<robert_ancell_> i.e. FooWindow.realize = window_instance_from_gtkbuilder.realize
<rickspencer3> what does "realize" do?
<robert_ancell_> Creates the X instances I think, just an example method that is on gtk.Widget
<rickspencer3> so when you do self.function_pointer = self.instantiated_object.function_point ...
<rickspencer3> self.function_pointer() will call self.instantiated_object.function_pointer() ?
<robert_ancell_> Actually no it wont work because the method will get passed FooWindow instead of gtk.Window as the first value.  So it would have to be proxied.  We could automatically do the proxying though
<robert_ancell_> Hmm.
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell_: you mean autogen the proxying, that was kind of my plan for Dialog at least
<rickspencer3> so I suppose we could use Glade  for Window and Dialog object, and create the code the way you say
<rickspencer3> but then you could create Widgets just in the XML
<rickspencer3> like, you have to hand compose the xml for widgets
<robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: yeah, it will be a bit crappy though.  I guess the problem is we want WYSIWYG designer but maximum code flexibility.  But that doesn't work right now for the standard case
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> Glade does not quite do what I think would be the best way for users
<rickspencer3> I *think*
<robert_ancell_> Hand composing XML is just evil.  I can't imagine opportunistic programmers really wanting to do that
<rickspencer3> well, it's pretty much like writing HTML, but ...
<rickspencer3> I agree it is suboptimcal
<rickspencer3> however, creating Widgets would be a corner case for these guys anyway
<robert_ancell_> How important is subclassing?  Especially for the type of user we want?  I mean, we don't expect them to write "software engineering" quality programs
<rickspencer3> so if you think hand editing the XML is a non-starter for this user, then we'll have to just generate proxy classes like you say
<rickspencer3> and making widgets directly could just be a less common task that unfortunately requires hand editing XML
<robert_ancell_> rickspencer3: I don't have the market research to say but that would be my guess.  I mean I wouldn't bother if I had to write XML and it wouldn't be that hard for me to do it
<rickspencer3> yeah
<robert_ancell_> The "pygtk/glade" way is to make Glade files for all your static elements of your UI then write GTK+ for the dynamic stuff (which is annoying but the best solution I know of at the moment)
<rickspencer3> so Glade support is more important than structuring the code in a way that would be natural for *me* personally
<rickspencer3> right
<robert_ancell_> agreed
<rickspencer3> well, it looks like the docs think you should be using uimanager and using inline xml or xml in files
<rickspencer3> for dynamic ui
<rickspencer3> though there appears to be absolutely reams of boiler plate code for setting up the commands and hot keys and such
<robert_ancell_> Are you talking about http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkUIManager.html?
<rickspencer3> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/sec-UIManager.html
<robert_ancell_> I think UIManager is effectively obsolete now GtkBuilder exists.
<rickspencer3> http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/class-gtkuimanager.html
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> that is not at all clear from the docs
<rickspencer3> so gtkbuilder it is
<robert_ancell_> It is kind of a proto-GtkBuilder.  It did things that Glade 1.x couldn't (like actions) but afaik GtkBuilder still supports this
<rickspencer3> so how are you supposed to do actiongroups and all that crap?
<rickspencer3> it's insanely tedious, and really hard to figure out how you are supposed to do it from the docs
<robert_ancell_> I've always been a little confused why UIManager exists at all.  My guess is there were two development teams solving similar goals
<robert_ancell_> In Glade
<rickspencer3> I thought uimanager was a subclass of gtkbuilder, or implemented the same interface or something
 * robert_ancell_ looking in Glade
<robert_ancell_> Yeah, you can even add a GtkUIManager element from Glade.  To create an action you create an object like a button and then you can choose an action from it
<rickspencer3> so I suppose that we would need to set up actiongroup and all that stuff in the generated file for the mainwindow
<robert_ancell_> No it can all be in the XML file I think
<rickspencer3> so you can define hot keys and such in the xml
<rickspencer3> ?
<robert_ancell_> (this is why I'm confused, GtkBuilder seems to have all the UIManager features yet no-one has deprecated UIManager)
<rickspencer3> okay, I need to learn how to do this action stuff in Glade
<robert_ancell_> I've made a button which I can attach accelerators to and linked it to an action
<robert_ancell_> So that will all be expressed in the XML
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell_: and then you can use gtkbuilder in your  code to a handle to the action and use that for the action of a widget you are creating on thef ly?
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
 * robert_ancell lights his flaming torch to lead the crowd to burn down GtkUIManager...
<rickspencer3> hehe
<robert_ancell> yes, you can get the action from the GtkBuilder object and then use it for anything else you want
<rickspencer3> I feel like I've been looking at the internet of the last two days just asking "can't you tell me how to do this simple thing", and I think it can't tell me
<rickspencer3> it's like all the people who kindly contributed to this system never documented exactly how it was all supposed to work together
<rickspencer3> so hopefully just bringing together the way you are *supposed* to this into one place will be a contribution
<robert_ancell> This is where GTK+ does really bad - there never seems to have been a plan for what GTK+ does (well, it did fall out of GIMP development)
<robert_ancell> And it looks like there may be more of a plan for GTK+ 3.0 but everyone is pretty skeptical based on previous direction
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> I'll dink with the ubuntu-project template tomorrow afternoon
<robert_ancell> I'll try out the current code later as my idea of a "new developer" and give you some feedback
<rickspencer3> feel free to provide your feedback in the form of patches
<robert_ancell> :)
<rickspencer3>  ;)
<robert_ancell> I knocked off 40 bugs in compiz on Friday!! Only 600 to go!!
<rickspencer3> nice
<rickspencer3> at this rate you'll be done in 15 weeks
<rickspencer3> :)
<robert_ancell> I know.  I just don't like to extrapolate that much...
<rickspencer3> 15 weeks isn't that long
<rickspencer3> compiz! compiz!
<robert_ancell> (yeah but I will be a raving lunatic after 15 weeks of that)
<rickspencer3> heehe
<robert_ancell> The next plan is once the list is in better shape to harness the masses to check which bugs are present in Jaunty
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> I'm sure you'll get good collaboration with that
<robert_ancell> I'm *hoping* that a significant percentage will then be closed as "can't repeat"
<rickspencer3> by knocked off, what do you mean?
<robert_ancell> either duplicates, invalid or reassigned to xorg (driver issues)
<rickspencer3> poor bryce
<rickspencer3> ;)
<robert_ancell> he asked me for them!
<rickspencer3> so:
<rickspencer3> 1. contain, not derive from, window and dialog. Autogen necessary proxying
<rickspencer3> 2. gtkbuilder for dynamic ui generation
<rickspencer3> 3. use action designer thing in glade
<rickspencer3> 4. subclass from widget requires hand editing xml
<rickspencer3> didrocks: ^^^^^
<robert_ancell> 1. proxying, but only if required
<rickspencer3> thanks robert_ancell, see you tomorrow morning
<robert_ancell> 2. static UI?
<robert_ancell> 3. yes
<robert_ancell> 4. not sure, will have to see use case
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: see you
<rickspencer3> 2. static ui for windows and dialogs is glade
<robert_ancell> gtkbuilder==glade
<rickspencer3> but gtkbuilder is also a class in gtk
<rickspencer3> you should use that class when creating UI on the fly, right?
<robert_ancell> no, the GtkBuilder instance just contains all the widgets in the XML files you loaded
<rickspencer3> (not gtk.uimanager, for example)
<rickspencer3> so how do you create UI on the fly?
<robert_ancell> custom_window = gtk.Window()
<rickspencer3> surely not just with the DOM like way (my_label=gtk.Label() )
<robert_ancell> custom_window.foo(), .blah()...
<robert_ancell> oh yes!
<rickspencer3> really? then what are all those functions for creating UI from xml strings  for?
<robert_ancell> I guess you could do it that way too.
<rickspencer3> (personally, I don't mind the DOM-like way of doing it, but it seems like it's been replaced with new stuff)
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
<robert_ancell> Lets make some use cases and then try the different methods and pick what we think is the most appropriate
<robert_ancell> (to recommend)
<rickspencer3> right, but is *the* way you are *supposed* to do it?
<rickspencer3> not recommend, choose
<robert_ancell> the way you feel most comfortable with
<robert_ancell> I've seen most code use the DOM method
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> me too, but that's because most code is old, I assumed
<robert_ancell> There is a reasonable amount of overhead doing it the other way so I wouldn't expect developers to use GtkBuilder for dynamic stuff often
<rickspencer3> I suppose one think is, that the DOM-like manner seems to be required for many things
<robert_ancell> GtkBuilder is just serialisation without storing state
<rickspencer3> like, you can't make a treeview without a million DOM like calls
<robert_ancell> but you can make a .ui file with a treeview and use that
<rickspencer3> it also provides a seperation of presention and logic
<rickspencer3> don't you have to hand code columns and renderers and all?
<robert_ancell> you can do a lot of that in GtkBuilder now (that's very new functionality that's been wanted for ages)
<rickspencer3> son of a bitch, so you can
<robert_ancell> (this is why i've been so eagerly uploading new Glade versions - I want these features!!!)
<rickspencer3> huh
<rickspencer3> I can't seem to find the treeview widget though, I'll have to dink with that a bit
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: interesting you say that.  There was a bug about that the other day - it's definitely there though
<robert_ancell> maybe it needs a new icon
<rickspencer3> too bad you can't just design a treeview and load that <ui> </ui> into a sub class
<rickspencer3> huh
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I just added a VBox to a window, and then did "remove parent"
<rickspencer3> and now I can edit just the vbox
<robert_ancell> yes, you don't need toplevel windows in GtkBuilder
<rickspencer3> will the file load?
<rickspencer3> like, can I got gtkbuilder.load(that file)
<robert_ancell> it doesn't appear to
<rickspencer3> oh well
<rickspencer3> I guess a  workaround would be that it could be contained in a window
<rickspencer3> never mind
<rickspencer3> off to non-work stuff!
<rickspencer3> see you tomorrow morning
<robert_ancell> later
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> Good morning
<ajmitch> morning pitti
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<pitti> hey ajmitch, hello TheMuso; had a good weekend?
<TheMuso> Indeed.
<ajmitch> yeah it wasn't too bad, expecting a bit of snow overnight though
<huats> morning everyone
<crevette> hello
<crevette> good morning
<didrocks> morning o/
<didrocks> seb128: hey !
<seb128> didrocks: hello
<huats> hello seb128 !
<seb128> lut huats
<didrocks> seb128: how was your week-end?
<seb128> pretty relaxing and good but too short ;-)
<mvo> hey seb128, didrocks and huats!
<seb128> yours?
<huats> hey mvo
<pitti> hey seb128 *hug*
<didrocks> hi mvo!
<seb128> mvo: alter! ;-)
 * mvo hugs the french gang :P
 * seb128 hugs pitti, hello
<asac> dobey: ok. please define how often it disconnects
 * pitti hugs mvo, didrocks, and huats
<didrocks> seb128: full of ubuntu related stuff (ubuntu party meeting, quickly programming and gnome-python-desktop splitting :p)
<pitti> and asac, too!
<seb128> new GNOME today, everybody is ready? ;-)
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> hohoo
 * pitti sharpens the sponsoring knife
<mvo> seb128: let me know if you need sponsoring
<huats> seb128: I am here for that !
<seb128> I've a script building a versions table now
<mvo> hey pitti and asac :)
<seb128> mvo: will do thanks!
<didrocks> seb128: yelp is ready (bug 387195) :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387195 in yelp "Please, sponsor yelp 2.27.1 to karmic" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387195
<seb128> the script is slow though, I might rewrite part of it
 * huats hugs pitti and asac too
<asac> hi mvo
 * asac hugs back
<seb128> I'm calling rmadison for each package twice (one for debian one for ubuntu)
<pitti> seb128: I have some code which parses Packages.gz, it's very quick
<didrocks> seb128: hum, yes, rmadison is not very fast, so, your script might suffer :)
<seb128> I had a previous script to look for merges which is using python-apt
<asac> didrocks: does that yelp still use gecko?
<seb128> but that requires to have a set of directory with sources.list config, index, etc
<pitti> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/sru-report does version comparison as well, and builds a version map from Packages.gz
<didrocks> asac: yes, this release only remove glade. No mention to gecko
<seb128> that's fast to run but annoying to configure
<seb128> pitti: ok thanks
<pitti> info = tagfiletodict('http://foo/Packages.gz')
<pitti> version = info['package']
<pitti> essentially
<seb128> pitti: that seems an efficient way to do that ;-)
<pitti> seb128: Sources.gz, of course
<seb128> the other way is to use apt_pkg
<pitti> seb128: you need the local sources for that, no?
<seb128> but you have to maintain etc, var, etc directories and sources.list for each distro you want to track
<seb128> pitti: local sources?
<pitti> ah, right
<seb128> you can tell apt to use ./karmic which has {etc,var}
<seb128> etc
<pitti> right, I think I did that in the past
<pitti> but it's fairly complicated, as you said
<seb128> my current code do some other not so great thing
<mvo> I can make python-apt create those dirs if that is the thing that makes it complicated?
<seb128> mvo: well, what would be nice would be able to magically get the apt index for a distro and work on it
<seb128> without having to create the cache directories, write a sources.list, etc
<didrocks> if nobody is against, I can handle gnome-doc-utils
<pitti> I object!!
 * pitti hugs didrocks, j/k
<didrocks> pitti: energically? ;)
 * didrocks hugs pitti :)
<mvo> seb128: ok, I added dir/file auto-creation now, so that only sources.list needs to be modified
<seb128> mvo: how does that work?
<seb128> mvo: ie what do we need to call or have on disk with your new code?
<mvo> seb128: cache=apt.Cache(rootdir="my-dir") - it will create all files it needs in that my-dir subtree
<seb128> so only require an etc directory with a sources.list?
<mvo> seb128: then put something mydir/etc/apt/sources.list and use cache.update() etc
<seb128> ok excellent, thanks!
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mvo> seb128: yes, it will create a empty file automatically
<mvo> seb128: :) np I need to merge and upload next
<seb128> no hurry, I will be busy with the new GNOME today
<seb128> and my versions script has other things that need to be changed too
<seb128> ie
<seb128>     for lines in urllib.urlopen("https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-upgrade" % source):
<seb128>         if lines.find("bugs.launchpad.net") != -1:
<seb128> I should look at using launchpadlib
<seb128> but I hate the authentification thing they have and I'm not sure there is an efficient way to ask for all the bugs with a tag on a component
<geser> there is a searchTasks() method on the distribution object which gives you a list of bug tasks matching the criterias of your search
<seb128> geser: could be useful, still the authenfication part is annoying
<pitti> seb128: there's lots of standard code for this around now; please let me know if you need help with the auth bits
<pitti> seb128: I think the code in ubuntu-dev-tools is best, since your script could just land there
<seb128> why one?
<seb128>     lp = lp_libsupport.get_launchpad("ubuntu-dev-tools", lp_server)
<seb128> that?
<didrocks> (I'm giving gvfs a go)
<seb128> didrocks: don't touch, gvfs is mine!
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> (lol)
<didrocks> seb128: ok ok :p
 * didrocks hands up
 * pitti sponsors texlive-bin
<seb128> didrocks: do you run karmic now?
 * seb128 sponsors glade3
<didrocks> seb128: on a VM, yes, I'll on my daily machine in two weeks (during RMLL)
<geser> there is already a singleton around libsupport.get_launchpad() in the u-d-t trunk
<seb128> geser: "singleton"?
<seb128> didrocks: ok, gvfs needs testing on real hardware if possible due to the devicekit-disks changes so I prefer to do that on my box since I'm running karmic
<didrocks> is there anybody going to kill me if I work on mousetweaks? :)
<didrocks> seb128: no pb :)
<geser> seb128: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singleton_(patron_de_conception)
<didrocks> ok this one is already up to date in karmic
<seb128> didrocks: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<didrocks> seb128: what orange and yellow mean?
<seb128> didrocks: refresh
<seb128> it's on the bottom
<didrocks> seb128: ok, that's what I guessed :)
<seb128> geser: *shrug*, I still don't understand what you mean, just that lp_libsupport.get_launchpad() is handy way to do that?
<didrocks> I'm taking gnome-themes
<lool> Is it on purpose that the Effects tab in gnome-appearance-properties selects no radio button when custom effects are in place?
<seb128> cool
<seb128> lool: yes, because the default choice match a set of effects
<lool> Ok; I have an issue where compiz doesn't honor my config, I wasn't sure whether this was another symptom
<didrocks> pitti: seb128 : is it intended that gnome-themes source package is in main and binaries in universe (reading rmadison output)
<pitti> didrocks: we only have g-t-selected in main
<pitti> yes, it's intended
<lool> mvo: Just noticed the longish get_current_window_manager() in gnome-control-center/capplets/appearance/appearance-effects.c; any reason not to use gdk_x11_screen_get_window_manager_name()?
<geser> seb128: the problem was that get_launchpad() was called at several places around the scripts and the ubuntutools modules instead of using one object for all LP API calls (and also authenticate only once)
<lool> mvo: (I thought the window manager name wasn't detected properly; it turned out to be correctly detected, but I rewrote this function with the Gdk function as it was known-working for me)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so, I'm going to the regular sponsorship process :)
<pitti> didrocks: yes, you should be able to commit (it's ~ubuntu-desktop)
<mvo> lool: no reason, probably ignorance - thanks for fixing it
<lool> mvo: Should I change it to http://paste.ubuntu.com/196177/ ?  (module some other changes to stop freeing the string and use static char everywhere)
<lool> I feel a bit bad about that as I don't know if it matches 100% with the current code; wouldn't want to introduce regressions just for a code cleanup   ;-)
<mvo> lool: if you have tested it I'm fine with it, it removes a whole bunch of code (always a good thing)
<mvo> lool: thanks for the python-apt merge from the not-commited upload btw (not sure if I thanked for that already)
<lool> Well I had forgotten I had done that, and whether you had thanked me; happy if it helped
<alejandra>  hello. I installed the nvidia drivers from the 'restricted drivers manager' to fix the screen resolution issue on Ubuntu on my Mac. Since I did that X-chat either crashes my machine or renders incorrectly (with letters missing and colout patches). Any ideas?
<seb128> alejandra: try #ubuntu
 * pitti grabs g-p-m
<alejandra> seb128, thank you, will try there
<Ampelbein> seb128: hi there. I'm ready to do some GNOME-updates, is there anything urgent to do?
<seb128> Ampelbein: hi, no, nothing yet to do, there is few tarballs for the moment and didrocks did those already
<didrocks> (I'm putting epiphany-browser into bzr)
<Ampelbein> ok, will wait then ;-)
<seb128> didrocks: epiphany-browser is deprecated in favor or epiphany-webkit but feel free
<seb128> ie I don't expect it will change much from now
<didrocks> seb128: really? I was thinking it was still the same package. But well, I can still update it (maybe we can put it in universe, though?)
<seb128> didrocks: how same package?
<lool> mvo: Ok; I tested the final version which is http://paste.ubuntu.com/196182/
<lool> Will commit to bzr now
<didrocks> seb128: I was thinking that epiphany-browser was transitionned to use webkit
<seb128> mvo: speaking about review, want to have a look to bug #383461?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383461 in gconf "gconf-sanity-check-2 exits with code 256 on Xorg start" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383461
<seb128> didrocks: apt-cache showsrc epiphany-webkit
<pitti> seb128: want me to sponsor bug 386035 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386035 in pygtk "crash in gtk.RecentInfo.get_application_info()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386035
<didrocks> seb128: yes yes, I believe you, I just assumed wrongly ^^ (epiphany-webkit is not in your tabular, btw)
<pitti> seb128: (I can reproduce the crash)
<seb128> pitti: you are welcome to do so
<pitti> taking then
<seb128> didrocks: right, I was wondering if we should list both or only epiphany-webkit
<seb128> pitti: danke
<mvo> seb128: yes, I can have a look
<seb128> mvo: danke
<didrocks> seb128: maybe 2 tabulars? One for "important stuff", and another one for less important ones?
<mvo> lool: thanks, I like the amount of "-" in that patch
<didrocks> and so, epiphany-browser will be in the second one.
<seb128> didrocks: I've no code right now to handle a different GNOME serie for a tarball, need to do that
<seb128> didrocks: ie saying that epiphany-browser tracks 2.26
<didrocks> seb128: ok. It's not a priority in any case :)
<lool> mvo: So I have this weird problem that the keyboard shortcut to launch a custom command doesn't work anymore; this happens frenquently to me, and usually editing the shortcut is enough to fix it; would you like to debug this with me now?
<lool> The keyboard shortcut is Alt-m and instead of the command being launched, I get "Ã­" on the focused app as the shortcut isn't intercepted by the wm
<lool> Oh that's interesting; because I ran gnome-appearance-properties from a random work dir and it started compiz, all commands I start with keybindings are started with that new cwd
<mvo> seb128: patch looks good
<lool> (Anyway, unrelated)
<seb128> mvo: excellent ;-)
<pitti> mvo: can you review the compiz change? the package branch is still owned by ~compiz
<pitti> mvo: bug 305740 I mean
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 305740 in compiz "compiz-decorator shell script needlessly keeps running after running decorator process" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/305740
<pitti> also, perhaps it's time to hand over the compiz package bzr to ~ubuntu-desktop?
<didrocks> taking nautilus before having my lunch :)
<lool> (gnome-window-properties:12227): capplet-common-WARNING **: Couldn't load window manager settings module `/usr/lib/window-manager-settings/libmetacity.so' (/usr/lib/window-manager-settings/libmetacity.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
<seb128> didrocks is stealing all my tarballs!!!
<didrocks> oh seb ^^
 * pitti sponsores transmission
<mvo> pitti: sure - how about adding ubuntu-desktop as a member to compiz? or will that result in some mail spam?
<didrocks> seb128: welcome back :p
<pitti> mvo: depends on whether ~compiz has an explicit contact address
<seb128> didrocks: hey ;-)
<pitti> mvo: if it does, it won't add spam
<didrocks> seb128: if you can't live with it, you can do it ;)
<seb128> didrocks: no that's ok do it, I will do sponsoring and try to get my versions table working better meanwhile
<didrocks> seb128: ok (and that's why I announce there what I'm planning to do, avoid collision or stealing gvfs :p)
<mvo> pitti: ok, I set the contact adress to me for now and add ubuntu-desktop
<pitti> mvo: cool, thanks
<seb128> didrocks: you can do gvfs too if you want ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I prefer first nautilus, as I don't have real hw to test gvfs ;)
<seb128> ok, doing gvfs there then
<seb128> didrocks: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html updated to list epiphany-webkit (and gvfs and not gconf in duplicate)
<lool> Hmm Robert broke the autoreconf patch
<didrocks> seb128: cool!
<didrocks> seb128: if you have some time to sponsor gnome-python-desktop today, here are some thoughts (http://paste.ubuntu.com/196201/ or you can ask me if I'm online)
<seb128> didrocks: ok, will look at that a bit later
<didrocks> seb128: ok, no hurry :)
<seb128> didrocks: to reply to the -dbg one, dh_strip moves debug symbols on the side, python-dbg is a different interpreter with different binary and code
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so this is specific for python
<seb128> yes
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - at the rate you're going at, there will be no updates for me to do when i finish work ;)
 * pitti watches seb128 drink cocktails and watching his packaging army
<seb128> there is already no update to do for me at work! ;-)
<pitti> you just wave the sponsoring club, eh? :-)
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, just motivated today. Sure that tomorrow, we will die under tons of updates to do :)
<seb128> Ampelbein: want to rebase gconf-editor xchat-gnome and zenity on debian?
<Ampelbein> seb128: sure, will do.
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: any objections if I do bug 334446 now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334446 in gnome-pilot "Remove gnome-pilot from the default ubuntu install" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334446
<seb128> pitti: no
<pitti> great
<seb128> brb
<pitti> seb128: will you sponsor bug 375844, since you reviewed it several times already?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375844 in gdl "Update to 2.27.2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375844
<Ampelbein> I have a question about the use of scrollkeeper in ubuntu and debian. In most ubuntu packages, scrollkeeper is disabled via debian/rules. Is this a delta needed in ubuntu or can this changes be forwarded to debian? Can someone point me to documentation why scrollkeeper is disabled on ubuntu buildd?
<seb128> pitti: yes
 * pitti grabs pidgin
<seb128> pitti: which one?
<seb128> Ampelbein: what change? --disable-scrollkeeper in the configure options? that can go to debian
<pitti> seb128: bug 378710
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 378710 in pidgin "[patch] pidgin user status messages cropped on high dpi display" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/378710
<seb128> ah ok, I guess this one is ok
<seb128> there is some pidgin bugs on the sponsoring list I'm not sure about
<seb128> changes upstream don't want to use and that i'm not sure to understand for custom msn smileys, etc
<Ampelbein> seb128: yes, the --disable-scrollkeeper one. And I quess the build-dep on scrollkeeper can go, too? (If the configure script is smart enough to not fail when scrollkeeper is not present)
<seb128> Ampelbein: yes
<Ampelbein> ok, thanks.
<pitti> seb128: yes, I reviewed the other two, they are too crackful
<seb128> didrocks: gvfs requires a newer glib so can't be updated right now
<pitti> ugh!
<pitti> kenvandine: new telepathy synced, and builds now
<pitti> oh, "glib", not "glibc"
<seb128> doing the gnome-settings-daemon update
<pitti> ok, sponsored 10 packages now; 'nuff for today
 * seb128 hugs pitti, good work ;-)
<pitti> seb128: any idea whether we can stop libpurple0 from depending on pidgin-data?
<pitti> with telepathy-haze being installed by default, we need to keep libpurple0
<pitti> but I wouldn't like to waste 1 MB for -data
<seb128> no idea
<lool> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/196230/ fixes LP #385220 for me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385220 in gnome-panel "workspace switcher applet doesn't fit to panel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385220
<lool> mvo: I suspect the wnck code doesn't deal correctly with this display mode and compiz, but I'm not sure that's worth researching
<lool> The change seems correct in all cases in gnome-panel; could you please proof read and perhaps ack?
<didrocks> seb128: oki. i'm back from lunch and will finish nautilus test before push it.
<lool> mvo: I've tested all four combinations of display_all = true/false and compiz/metacity and it worked fine in all cases
<lool> mvo: I just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/387262 I believe the implications are more serious than just lang-sel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387262 in pam "pam_env's and localechooser's usage of quotes for /etc/default/locale conflicts" [Undecided,New]
<Ampelbein> seb128: bug 387245, bug 387256 and bug 387267 done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387245 in gconf-editor "Please merge gconf-editor 2.26.0-1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387245
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387256 in xchat-gnome "Please merge xchat-gnome 0.26.1-1 from debian/unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387256
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387267 in zenity "Please merge zenity 2.26.0-1ubuntu1 from debian/unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387267
<seb128> Ampelbein: thanks
<didrocks> seb128: there is no method ATM to put the bug number is comment (do you want me to show every bug numbers or you will take them in your inbox?)
<seb128> didrocks: "is comment"?
<seb128> what comment? where?
<didrocks> s/is/in
<didrocks> (in versions.html)
<seb128> it should list bugs tagged "desktop-upgrade"
<seb128> you can try on one bug if you want
<didrocks> ok, I will try on nautilus one
<didrocks> ok, let's way now
<pitti> asac, seb128: BTW, did you notice that LP can search for "not this tag" now?
<pitti> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bugs?field.tag=-apport-crash
<seb128> pitti: no
<pitti> not released yet, but works on edge
<seb128> cool
<pitti> with an appropriate quick bookmark this is pretty convenient
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<seb128> brb trying gsd upgrade
<asac> cool
<asac> step by step ;)
<seb128> didrocks: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<seb128> that works
<didrocks> seb128: Nice! I'm tagging the others bug
<pitti> ah, "comment" is from a bug tag?
<pitti> didrocks: sooner or later these bugs should be autogenerated
<pitti> or perhaps become merge requests
<pitti> seb128: great list now!
<seb128> pitti: no, comment is a from a comment table (in my script for now but will be a file somewhere) and it adds "desktop-upgrade" tagged bugs too
<didrocks> pitti: yes, I read that. It will be easier for us :)
<seb128> the tag might need to be changed, I just picked a name for testing
<seb128> could be "desktop-todo" or something
<mpt> mvo, I just mailed you a draft mockup for simplifying the Update Manager window
<mpt> ok for a call in ten minutes?
<mvo> mpt: thanks!
<lool> mvo: I'm pushing + uploading the gnome-panel changes; shout if there's any issue
<didrocks> seb128: do you think I'm crazy if I take the evolution-mapi update (we still have the issue of testing it properly, but well...)?
<seb128> didrocks: not at all, go for it ;-)
<didrocks> oki ;-)
<mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SummerOfUsability
<didrocks> seb128: I need evolution-dev 2.27.2. Do I gain a new update to do? :)
<seb128> didrocks: yes if you want to, the evo* stack is to merge on debian and update, feel free to work on that
<seb128> I'm fighting python-apt
<seb128> I think I will need mvo soon ;-)
<didrocks> hum, merge and update evolution, seems not fun ^^ Well, trying it :)
<seb128> Ampelbein: new gnome-utils version if you want to do the update
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've just realised i'm still sitting on the gnome-panel update. it's pretty much done now, but i might need you to take a look at it later before i commit it, as the current version has diverged quite a lot from debian.
<seb128> ok
<Ampelbein> seb128: will do that. I'll disable the maintainer-mode of autotools completely for that one since it gave some FTBFS in the current version, ok?
<seb128> ok
<pitti> hello rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> pitti: hello!
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<rickspencer3> pitti: did you see that I pimped out the burndown chart script?
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, but I'm going nuts with this
<rickspencer3> with what?
<pitti> if I just call ./burndown.py, or add some options like --output, etc.
<pitti> I get a cross-hair mouse cursor similar to ghostscript, and a hang
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> weird
<pitti> and I have to click and press enter a couple of times
<pitti> and this produces three new files:
<pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 martin martin 963580 2009-06-15 15:31 datetime
<pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 martin martin 963578 2009-06-15 15:31 getopt
<pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 martin martin 963575 2009-06-15 15:31 sys
<pitti> and no output
<rickspencer3> wtf?
<pitti> from: can't read /var/mail/pychart
<pitti> ./burndown.py: line 6: syntax error near unexpected token `('
<pitti> ./burndown.py: line 6: `def usage():'
<pitti> the three new files are postscript
<rickspencer3> well
<rickspencer3> hold on
<pitti> rickspencer3: does that work for you somehow?
<rickspencer3> it certainly worked when I uploaded it
<rickspencer3> let me try it on this machine
<mvo> lool: thanks, sorry - I was in a call
<rickspencer3> pitti: works for m
<rickspencer3> :/
<pitti> rickspencer3: oooh *slapping head*
<pitti> rickspencer3: I did ./burndown.py, since the file is executable
<lool> mvo: NP, I'm reasonnably confident, but I think you were the original author; I saw you were just busy  :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: but it doesn't have a shebang
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, WFM now, sorry
<rickspencer3> my fault
<rickspencer3> sorry
<pitti> n/p, should have looked before
<rickspencer3> inconsistent code for the fail
<pitti> rickspencer3: with your example data I get a trend line
<pitti> but with the current desktop data I don't
<rickspencer3> hmm
<pitti> do I need to explicitly specify it with arguments?
<rickspencer3> no
<rickspencer3> perhaps the trend line is right on top of one of the axes
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/data.csv
<pitti> python burndown.py - < /tmp/data.csv
<kenvandine> pitti: cool, thx
<rickspencer3> try python burdown.py --start_items = 50
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^ produces http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/burndown.png
<rickspencer3> python burdown.py --start_items=50
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<rickspencer3> back?
<chrisccoulson> anyone here mind if i work on gnome-terminal merge with debian?
<pitti> rickspencer3: ah, now I see one
<rickspencer3> how's the ear surgery go?
<pitti> rickspencer3: probably because the first couple of days have 0 data
<rickspencer3> pitti: right
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think I'll just drop the empty section before the real data begins
<asac> hi. so i found lp:~rick-rickspencer3/+junk/py-burndown-chart ... is the blueprint parser in there, pitti?
<rickspencer3> if start_items is not specified it just uses the number of open items in the first day
<rickspencer3> asac: yes
<pitti> asac: no, that's not in bzr yet; didn't find a place for that yet
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: yup... glad i am not a stay at home dad...  thats hard work
<rickspencer3> asac: no
<rickspencer3> :)
<Nafallo> hmm. my gnome-power-manager (or whatever) makes my jaunty laptop go to sleep whenever I leave it locked and goes for lunch
<asac> pitti: ok. please put it in same project ;)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: hehe
<Nafallo> anyone else seen that?
<kenvandine> Nafallo: well i just noticed a problem sort of like that, gonna file a bug
<kenvandine> sometimes when i resume the display lights, but doesn't wake up
<kenvandine> the computer resumes though
<Nafallo> kenvandine: kewl. want to subscribe nafallo? :-)
<kenvandine> i get back online... etc
<kenvandine> will do
<kenvandine> Nafallo: does that sound like what you are seeing?
<pitti> rickspencer3: hmm: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/burndown.png
<Nafallo> kenvandine: hmm. I think it's actually sleeping. the moon is lit.
<pitti> rickspencer3: it just seems to count the DONE tasks, not open/postponed
<Nafallo> kenvandine: is/was/you know what I mean.
<kenvandine> Nafallo: yeah, but does it resume properly?
<Nafallo> kenvandine: yes/.
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> not the same then
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> mine resumes, but X doesn't resume
<rickspencer3> pitti: remaining = total-done
<Nafallo> my problem is that it is sleeping in the first place :-P
<kenvandine> just noticed it over the weekend
<kenvandine> Nafallo: well... i want mine to sleep :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: I mean the trend line should start at the total number of items, not number of open items, right?
<Nafallo> kenvandine: sleep while you're on AC? :-)
<kenvandine> no
<rickspencer3> pitti: I usually start it at the total open on the first day
<Nafallo> kenvandine: that's what mine is doing.
<kenvandine> Nafallo: mine sleeps when i close the lid
<pitti> rickspencer3: okay
<kenvandine> on AC or not
<kenvandine> but that is what i want
<Nafallo> kenvandine: mine doesn't. but that's what /I/ want :-)
<pitti> rickspencer3: okay, cron'ed
<pitti> rickspencer3: we might either need to manually adjust the trend line, or reset the data once all the specs have WIs
<rickspencer3> pitti: we might want to make the burndown start on Thursday
<rickspencer3> that's feature definition after all, and everyone should be done specifying their work items by then
<pitti> rickspencer3: np, that's an rm data/desktop.db away :)
<rickspencer3> kewl
<pitti> I'll set up a nice page by then
<rickspencer3> pitti: I added the shebang line, btw
 * rickspencer3 looks away sheepishly
<pitti> rickspencer3: cool, thanks (please push, too)
<rickspencer3> did that
<pitti> then LP is just lagging
<pitti> (weird, though, it doesn't usually)
<kenvandine> pitti: i have noticed it lagging over the past week or so
<kenvandine> the other day it took me nearly 10m to see a commit in gwibber
<didrocks> seb128: there are a lot of work to merge evolution. I will give it a look this week-end (I prefer to take 2 hours to do a merge in one time, not being stopped, if you don't mind).
<pitti> http:// used to have a 3-minute delay, but bzr+ssh:// used to work immediately
<kenvandine> i was looking with bzr+ssh://
<kenvandine> took ages
<seb128> didrocks: you are the one who asked for it, it was on my todolist before ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I can handle it, it's just that I wasn't aware of such a merge to do before updating :p (so, this week-end will be a good time for that ;))
<seb128> didrocks: let's see if somebody does it before ;-)
<didrocks> hehe :-)
<Nafallo> omg
<Nafallo> gconf-editor to the rescue.
<Nafallo> kenvandine: the gui are set right... gconf-editor confirms that it got stuff wrong...
<didrocks> handling libchamplain instead :)
 * Nafallo headdesks and stops trusting gnome and seb128
<seb128> lol
<kenvandine> eek
<didrocks> doing gtkhtml now :)
<lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: I'd like to do a langsel upload to address some issues but mostly because I did some changes which affect its translations and would like to upload that as early as possible in the cycle
<lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: Any objection?  Would you like to review and/or add some of your own changes?
<ArneGoetje> lool: I haven't done any changes yet for karmic, so from my side, go ahead.
<mvo> lool: have you merged them yet? I would like to have a look at the diff
<lool> mvo: It's pushed, yes
<lool> r246 - 249
<lool> (so diff -r 245..)
<mvo> lool: thanks, looks fine \o/
<lool> Ok, pushing
<lool> Hmm except the revision
<lool> Pushed
<Nafallo> oh... nice. so the gui options set aren't changed when I swapped 'suspend' and 'nothing' on 'sleep_type_{ac,battery}'
<Nafallo> ...in gconf-editor
<Nafallo> meh! french coward!
<Nafallo> ;-)
<lool> ArneGoetje: I would have liked to fix all the issues I discovered, but I swapped some I discovered myself with some I took from the BTS since I had to check the bugs to avoid dups anyway   ;-)
<lool> ArneGoetje: I'm afraid some of the issues will be a bit time consuming to fix and I have a bunch of other things to look at right now   :-/
<ArneGoetje> lool: saw your bug reports already...
<lool> Some are really minor, like LANGUAGE or dmrc handling, but some are a bit scary
<ArneGoetje> lool: LANGUAGE settings is on my todo list. .dmrc I'm not sure if that is an issue at all...
 * mvo takes the yelp sponsoring
<lool> ArneGoetje: If I change /etc/default/locale manually, it wont update .dmrc and it will get out of sync despite me setting the keep in sync flag
<didrocks> seb128: in gtkhtml, the package is named libgtkhtml3.14-19. But even in the previous revision, configure.ac has GTKHTML_CURRENT=20. Is it intended?
<ArneGoetje> lool: yes, the code currently doesn't take deliberate changes made by the user into account... needs to be fixed.
<seb128> didrocks: yes, the binary name is according to the soname
<lool> ArneGoetje: I think the suggested algorithm for updating .dmrc is more robust than the current one; but really this is minor, most people don't care
<didrocks> seb128: ok. I didn't checked yet the soname (I'm doing that now), just see that in configure.ac
<lool> I noticed because I started keeping my home in a VCS
<lool> Which is actually incredibly useful to track which application does what, but not too exciting otherwise :)
<seb128> didrocks: the soname is basically current - age
<mvo> heh :)
<didrocks> seb128: I must confess that even reading some documentation I never understood this black magic current - age thing :))
<mvo> didrocks: the yelp I just build segfaults for me, does it work ok for me?
<mvo> didrocks: eh, ok for you?
<seb128> didrocks: that's how libtool is working  no need to understand ;-)
<seb128> mvo: the current karmic version segfaults for me too
<seb128> mvo: in case that's of any use
<didrocks> mvo: it was ok for me (I also installed and runned it). Let me try again
<didrocks> for build or run?
<seb128> didrocks: run
<didrocks> seb128: oki for the black magic :)
<mvo> seb128: it is, then at least there is no regression ;)
<pitti> to add to the noise, yelp segfaults for me in current karmic as well
<didrocks> yes, I just launched "yelp --version"
<didrocks> but the current one is also segfaulting
<seb128> I blame it on asac and xulrunner
<asac> wasnt yelp going for webkit ;)?
<lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: aha, actually that quote issue is a sudo bug: Bug #387262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387262 in sudo "pam_env's and localechooser's usage of quotes for /etc/default/locale conflicts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387262
<lool> ArneGoetje, mvo: So perhaps we should actually revert the double quotes changes in langsel
<lool> As double quotes is what localechooser generates and is nicer and less risky (in case of weird locales, but that should be ok)
<lool> cjwatson: Re: 387262; do you find it appropriate to use the same algo for sudo?
<lool> cjwatson: (The issue was only with sudo -i as I discovered now)
<lool> cjwatson: alternatively, we could use pam_env in the pam.d file of sudo and disable the /etc/environment reading code, but I suspect that might interact badly with some sudo flags
<cjwatson> lool: yes, I think we should change sudo to handle the environment file in the same way PAM does, one way or another
<didrocks> seb128: for gtkhtml3.14, do I push it under ~ubuntu-desktop/gtkhtml/ubuntu or ~ubuntu-desktop/gtkhtml3.14/ubuntu (as we have both packages)?
<seb128> didrocks: we have both?
<seb128> didrocks: libgtkhtml != gtkhtml3
<seb128> didrocks: gtkhtml3.14 is the correct one to use there
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so I will ask on #launchpad for the project creation
<seb128> didrocks: thanks
<seb128> didrocks: well there might be a project
<seb128> but be careful it's different from libgtkhtml
<seb128> could be libgtkhtml and gtkhtml already
<seb128> adding upstream tasks work so I think there an upstream project
<didrocks> seb128: hum, libgtkhtml is deprecated, no?
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> they are different libs, when I checked previous it was still used by some softwares
<didrocks> (I only see gtkhtml |   1.1.10-9 | dapper/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc with rmadison)
<seb128> $ rmadison libgtkhtml2 | grep karmic
<seb128> libgtkhtml2 | 2.11.1-2ubuntu1 |        karmic | source
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so, this gtkhtml package has been renamed, right?
<seb128> could be
<seb128> I don't know the specifics about this one
<seb128> the gtkhtml<nn> abi has changed over time
<seb128> could be that a will ago it was not versioned though
<didrocks> seb128: yes, and there are lots of epoch too in the packaging :/
<didrocks> seb128: well, during the project creation, I pushed it to ~didrocks/+junk/gtkhtml3.14 and will attach this branch to the bug
<seb128> ok
<seb128> $ time python versions.py
<seb128> real	0m6.476s
<seb128> that's better ;-)
<pitti> nice
<didrocks> seb128: no more rmadison call ? :-)
<seb128> I'm using python-apt to get versions now
<seb128> didrocks: no, that was too slooooow ;-)
<seb128> thanks mvo for the help
<didrocks> seb128: I got stressed when calling it manually once. I just can't imagine what it can be in a script :-)
<seb128> didrocks: well, building the desktop table was taking 8 minutes
<seb128> calling rmadison 3 times for each source
<pitti> seb128: found an easy way with p-apt?
<didrocks> seb128: oh, I would have imagined that it will take longer... but well, if you compared it with the 7 seconds... :-)
<seb128> pitti: sort of easy, it's 7-8 lines of python-apt by distribution now and mvo made python-apt in karmic do most of magic to create cache directories, etc
<pitti> yay
<seb128> so basically the current setup requires you to ship the sources.list for the distros you want and that's it
<seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html updated
<mvo> pitti: I made a lp:~mvo/+junk/compare-to-debian (needs the latest python-apt)
<didrocks> seb128: hum, seems that "desktop-upgrade" tag is working only on the nautilus bug
<didrocks> seb128: sorry, didn't it ctrl + R
<didrocks> (a proxy is anoying me apparently)
<lool> cjwatson: Mind reviewing the sudo changes?
<seb128> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions has the code to build http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html if somebody want to have a look
<seb128> that's still an early version and lot of things could be done better but it's mostly working
<lool> Did you consider using fredp's code?  He refreshed it
<lool> (or is that based on his work?)
<seb128> lool: I looked at what he did before starting but I decided it would be faster to work on a smaller version
<seb128> his code is quite debian specific (ie check for debian team, buildds on the debian infrastructure), it uses rmadison to get the versions which is slow and list tarballs upstream too
<lool> That's the new one as well?
<seb128> the one I've been pointed at one week ago when I asked on #gnome-debian
<lool> Hmm indeed, it's rmadison based still
<seb128> the rmadison way was taking almost 8 minutes to get the version
<seb128> where the python-apt version takes 8 seconds
<lool> Yeah, our rmadison emulation is really really slow
<seb128> versions
<seb128> also vuntz builds http://www.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-2.28 for the versions
<seb128> and the debian code list tarballs on the ftp server
<james_w> are there reports of gnome-screensaver being broken on karmic?
<james_w> I think I'm seeing that, and I don't want to spend the next few days trying to not let the screensaver kick in
<seb128> not that I know but I'm not tracking gnome-screensaver
<seb128> knowing that it didn't change for month though it's probably rather gpm or xorg being buddy
<seb128> buggy
<kenvandine> james_w: what are you seeing?
<kenvandine> i am seeing something that is related to screen blanking
<james_w> I went away for a few minutes and when I came back my laptop was dead to me
<kenvandine> black screen?
<james_w> maybe it was DPMS, yeah
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> same here
<kenvandine> happens sometimes on resume as well
<james_w> yeah
<kenvandine> when i resume, the screen stays black
<james_w> -intel?
<kenvandine> but my laptop signs on, etc
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> james_w: just started happening at the end of the week for me
<ccheney> i did notice that recently the DPMS setting can now be earlier than the screensaver timeout
<james_w> I've just upgraded, so I can't be sure
<kenvandine> was trying to get some logs this morning before the sprint of calls today :)
<ccheney> prior to karmic i think that this was not possible
<seb128> I've noticed such issues on intel
 * ccheney thinks what he saw has nothing to do with what kenvandine is seeing though
<seb128> [43080.776561]  [<c05302d6>] __mutex_lock_slowpath+0xc6/0x130
<seb128> [43080.776571]  [<c0530050>] mutex_lock+0x20/0x40
<seb128> [43080.776602]  [<f851380b>] i915_gem_set_domain_ioctl+0x7b/0xd0 [i915]
<seb128> I get such stacktrace in syslog when I get the "screen don't turn on again" issues
<kenvandine> i'll confirm if that is what i get next time it happens to me... i couldn't get logs with no ssh and for some reason i can't get to another VT either
<Ampelbein> seb128: i noticed bug 383973, could this be your issue to?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383973 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[GM45] system frozen after a period of inactivity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383973
 * kenvandine hadn't installed sshd since re-installing karmic
<seb128> another VT didn't work either
<seb128> but the log remain there for days
<kenvandine> humm
<seb128> Ampelbein: could be the same issue but the bug doesn't have a lot of details
<Ampelbein> seb128: btw: bug 387394 done
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387394 in gnome-utils "Please sponsor version 2.27.2 in karmic" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387394
<seb128> Ampelbein: thanks, you can tag the bug desktop-upgrade so it's listed in the comments on http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<kenvandine> i don't have an older messages file... messages and messages.0
<kenvandine> messages.0 is from a hour ago :/
<kenvandine> weird as well
<seb128> no messages.<n>.gz?
<kenvandine> no
<seb128> weird
<kenvandine> i did just re-install on thursday... but i have no logs older than earlier today
<kenvandine>  ls messages*
<kenvandine> messages  messages.0
<seb128> Ampelbein: feel free to work on other merges or upgrade in the list, gnome-system-monitor, file-roller for example
<Ampelbein> seb128: nice list. can i suppose to add seahorse and seahorse-plugins? they seem to be missing from your list.
<seb128> ah right
<Ampelbein> seb128: is there a way to add an own comment like on merges.ubuntu.com? so that one can "claim" an update? or should i just announce in channel: doing XXX upgrade now?
<seb128> not yet
<seb128> it's a first code drop, code available on lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
<seb128> you are welcome to work on adding that
<seb128> for now we still use the channel
<seb128> but we will probably be using bugs to track work
<Ampelbein> ok.
<seb128> the code already lists the bugs tagged desktop-upgrade
<seb128> and add those in the comments column
<Ampelbein> seb128: i see. how often does it update?
<seb128> when I run it for now  ;-)
<seb128> I need to set up a cron job
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - have you noticed the xrandr plugin no longer loads with the latest gnome-settings-daemon/
<seb128> chrisccoulson: no I didn't but we got bug #387391
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387391 in gnome-settings-daemon "2.27.3-0ubuntu1 update broke xrandr / Display Preferences" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387391
<seb128> does it crash your session or just doesn't work?
<chrisccoulson> the xrandr plugin fails with "undefined symbol: gnome_rr_screen_get_timestamps"
<seb128> does it crash your session or just doesn't work?
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't crash the session
<chrisccoulson> it's just that plugin which fails to load
<seb128> ok good so it can wait
<seb128> I've to go now for sport and dinner, I will look at it later or tomorrow
<seb128> alright
<seb128> I guess it needs a newer gnome-desktop and that's not claimed at build time
<seb128> anyway I've to go, bbl
<chrisccoulson> possibly
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> rickspencer3, seb128: would bug #387405 need a blueprint too? I think it's a simple change in the gnome-panel build to make
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387405 in gnome-panel "build applets in gnome-panel as executables instead of shlibs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387405
<pitti> bye everyone, Taekwondo time
<rickspencer3> dobey: I think a bug is fine, but it's really for pitti or seb128 to say
<rickspencer3> well, they're not here, so I mandate, a bug is fine ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<dobey> heh
<crevette> hello
<didrocks> gnome-themes updated to 2.27.3 so as the bug report, good night everybody :)
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<didrocks> thanks seb128, good luck for your sponsoring duty ;)
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, would it be acceptable to enable AM_MAINTAINER_MODE in a package to prevent an autotools update when the package is being built?
<yoasif> any empathy guys here?
<istaz_> yoasif: you should ask on #telepatyh
<istaz_> * #telepathy
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i took a look at the gnome-settings-daemon issue
<yoasif> istaz_, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson: ah good, we need a new gnome-desktop version right?
<chrisccoulson> we do. but the version we need hasnt been released yet
<chrisccoulson> i reported a bug against g-s-d because it should check for a newer version now
<chrisccoulson> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585893
<ubottu> Gnome bug 585893 in plugins "[xrandr] configure script should check for newer gnome-desktop version" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> ok thanks
<chrisccoulson> no problem
<Ampelbein> seb128: i've done some hacking on your "desktop versions"-thingie. The result is at http://www.warperbbs.de/versions/versions.html . There are a few issues left: 1. when debian and ubuntu have same version it gets reported as out-of-sync with debian. 2. i'm rewriting the "get launchpad-bugs" part to launchpadlib, so that is not working right now.
<seb128> re
<seb128> Ampelbein, what was the url again? did you change lot of things?
<Ampelbein> seb128: http://www.warperbbs.de/versions/versions.html
<Ampelbein> seb128: i split out 3 parts: get the upstream versions, get launchpad reports and generate the html
<seb128> how is the comment thing working?
<seb128> where do you store the datas?
<Ampelbein> seb128: in a seperate text-file
<Ampelbein> i push the current state now to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions-devel
<Ampelbein> the getting of the launchpad reports is not working atm, am writing the code for python-launchpad-bugs
<seb128> "complete rewrite"
<seb128> lol
<Ampelbein> seb128: i looked at how merges.ubuntu.com did it
<Ampelbein> seb128: that is poorly phrased, yeah.
<Ampelbein> once i'm happy with it, i'll create new bzr branch with better fitting commit messages
<seb128> I'm not sure how to respond
<seb128> one thing I find counter-productive is people who start by contributing to something by rewriting everywhere
<seb128> everything
<Ampelbein> well, your initial version had some issues which could not be easily addressed. e.g. on every run to regenerate the html the complete list of available versions was updated. if you don't like the changes, feel free to pick only those you think are good.
<seb128> right the complete list is updated, a run take 8 seconds that's not too expensive
<seb128> and how do you want to know if the version changed without querying it
<seb128> anyway thanks for the work on it, I will review the changes when you have a working version
<Ampelbein> seb128: the versions don't change every 5 minutes or so. it is enough to fetch the list of versions once a day. the launchpad-bug list could be updated every hour, while the user comments should be up to date any given time.
<seb128> well the right solution for that is to use a cgi or something which will read dynamically the comments datas when the client load the page
<seb128> versions do change every half an hour on new GNOME days
<seb128> we have around 60 tarballs in a day
<Ampelbein> seb128: ok, point taken. i'll see to integrate the comments to your script.
<Ampelbein> seb128: do you want to use launchpadlib or python-launchpadbugs for querying launchpad?
<seb128> launchpadlib would probably be better nowadays
<Ampelbein> ok
<soc1> hi
<soc1> does someone know which package has the default settings for gnome?
<soc1> i'm looking into https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/387518 and wantto find out how much work it is ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387518 in gnome-panel "The auto-hide default settings of the gnome-panel are cumbersome, making the panel look sluggish and uncomfortable" [Undecided,New]
<rickspencer3-afk> soc1: two people to ask:
<rickspencer3> 1. robert_ancell, he should be online in the next hour or so
<rickspencer3> 2. seb128, he should be online tomorrow
<soc1> ah ok, thanks!
<soc1> btw, does someone know why many applications have difficulties with different font weights?
<soc1> for instance i have a font with weights from light, semi-light, plain, semi-bold, bold, black but no program recognizes it correctly
<chrisccoulson> stuff that's not part of the default install shouldn't really be a papercut should they?
<soc1> chrisccoulson: me?
<chrisccoulson> that was directed at anybody who knows the answer really;)
<soc1> yes, i think yopu are correct
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm doing the tracker merge now, but i'm having issues with the autotools update though. the autotools update only alters the timestamp on some files now, which doesn't get saved in the patch. when i build the package, it insists on doing the autotools update again because some timestamps are out of sync, and the build ends up failing
<chrisccoulson> i worked around it by enabling AM_MAINTAINER_MODE, but i don't know if there's a better way
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems the right way to me too
<chrisccoulson> thanks. i'll keep that in then
<seb128> chrisccoulson, and the hundredpapercut better have to focus on the default user experience
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what i thought. it seems there are some enthusiastic people adding papercut tasks everywhere;)
<seb128> right, I talked to the design team about that, they said they are fine with having lot of those to triage as long as they get 100 good ones on their list for karmic
<seb128> so I let them deal with the enthousiastic users ;-)
<chrisccoulson> that's ok then:)
<chrisccoulson> i just closed one opened against gnome-mount actually, which is why i asked the question
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> imho, it's more important to have a *good* list of paper cuts, rather than a list that is arbitrarily 100
<TheMuso> The paper cuts stuff has made it to an article on Ars Technica.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: right, in fact, first page of digg as well!
<rickspencer3> soc1: robert_ancell joined, btw
<soc1> ah thanks
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: soc1 had a question that I thought you might be able to answer
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: good evening
<robert_ancell> soc1: hello
<soc1> robert_ancell: doyou know which package has the default settings for gnome?
<soc1> i'm looking into https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/387518 and wantto find out how much work it is ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387518 in gnome-panel "The auto-hide default settings of the gnome-panel are cumbersome, making the panel look sluggish and uncomfortable" [Undecided,New]
<robert_ancell> soc1: They should be in the GNOME panel schema
<seb128> hey robert_ancell, I just dropped you an email, I was going to bed now
<robert_ancell> seb128: hey seb, cya later
<seb128> robert_ancell, basically: feel free to work on any tarball update rolled during your day
<seb128> you can also do evince, gnome-media, cheese
<seb128> nobody claimed those yet
 * robert_ancell looks at the gnome mailing list... a few updates overnight
<seb128> open a bug when you start on something so we can track work
<robert_ancell> seb128: sure
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw I started working on http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<seb128> robert_ancell, code on lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
<seb128> there is no regular updates yet but that should be coming soon
<robert_ancell> seb128: excellent, will look at that, very keen to have that working
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> anyway time for bed there, have a nice day!
<seb128> see you tomorrow
<rickspencer3> bye seb128
<soc1> robert_ancell: which source package is that gnome scheme in?
<robert_ancell> soc1: just looked it up.  Check out gnome-panel source and look in gnome-panel/*.schemas.in
 * TheMuso was thinking of doing gnome-media, since its in the audio/multimedia relm.
<TheMuso> I.e, I'm happy to track gnome-media in the future as well.
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-16
<robert_ancell> TheMuso: I agree, not my thing really
<TheMuso> Ok. How does one officially claim a package, since I am new to the team in terms of process?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso: There is not process at the moment.  Just open a bug for the update, then make the changes
<seb128> there is no "official claiming"
<seb128> we tend to know who do upgrades usually and let things continue this way
<seb128> so feel free to do the update
<TheMuso> Ok I'll take care of it then.
<robert_ancell> soc1: but the patch is simpler, see debian/gconf-defaults e.g. in totem
<soc1> ah thanks, ok
<soc1> robert_ancell: mhh ok, totem-common.gconf-defaults ...
<soc1> but i guess i need to edit the scheme ... because i don't want to change a particular panel, but every panel which will ever be generated
<robert_ancell> soc1: Don't you want to set the default value of the gconf key? So all users who have not chosen a preference will get the ones you want
<robert_ancell> soc1: setting gconf-defaults will modify the schema defaults as it is installed
<soc1> ah ok
<soc1> thanks
<soc1>  /schemas/apps/panel/global/panel_show_delay 0 should do it, right?
<TheMuso> Whats the usual procedure for updating the autoconf stuff when configure.ac is patched? Is it a matter of installing gnome-common, and running autogen.sh, and turning the resulting autoconf file changes into a patch?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ^^ are you able to answer my query, given what you've done so far? This is what I would normally do, but I am wondering whether the desktop team has a different procedure.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso: Seb showed me to run "autoreconf" and if that doesn't work run "gnome-autogen.sh".  But either is fine as long as it builds
<robert_ancell> soc1: Yes
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok that helps, thanks.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey robert_ancell!
<didrocks> (congrats for releasing gcalctool :D)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> robert_ancell: good morning
<robert_ancell> pitti: hey, up early!
<pitti> robert_ancell: not really, 8:30 here
<robert_ancell> didrocks: It was really broken too.  I'm just glad I got it together enough to make a working release!
<robert_ancell> pitti: as I said, early :O)
<pitti> I'm already here for half an hour :)
<didrocks> hi pitti ;)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: pitti is watching you ^^
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I was wondering who installed the webcam in the corner of my office...
<didrocks> robert_ancell: :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: did you update/worked on brasero (and gnome-games?)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: not yet, been working on compiz and plan to do some packaging now.  Feel free to do any you want...
<didrocks> ok, will begin with brasero. Then, gnome-games if I have some time
 * didrocks needs to take a bzr backport as I can't pull from my intrepid server because of repostiroy format...
<Amaranth> seb128 is going to kill me
<Amaranth> I'm going through paper cut bugs and most of the ones that don't have a package assigned seem to be for either nautilus, gtk+2.0, or gnome-control-center :P
<Amaranth> the ux and design teams are getting spammed too :P
<didrocks> I'm doing cheese :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: 2.27.2-0ubuntu2 has never been released (you didn't ask for sponsorship). I include it with the new version and upload to universe
<didrocks> robert_ancell: btw in changelog: "Fix enviornments typo" <- this is collector :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: collector?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: at first glance, I was thinking your wrongly typoed "environment" in changelog but indeed, you was just quoting the typo :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I'm trying to update the autoreconf patch for evince but running autoreconf is making it huge! how did you make your patch so small?
<seb128> hello everybody
<robert_ancell> seb128: hi seb
<seb128> robert_ancell, evince only requires autoconf
<robert_ancell> seb128: how do you know that?
<seb128> because only the configure.ac changed
<pitti> hey seb128, bonjour
<seb128> you need autoreconf when you have changes to makefile.aml for example
<seb128> hello pitti
<robert_ancell> seb128: ah, i see
<seb128> configure update -> autoconf
<seb128> that's what we do for most of the launchpad integration changes
<robert_ancell> a lot of my patches will be too big...
<pitti> IANAAG, but doesn't that sometimes also require aclocal?
<seb128> pitti, dunno, I'm running autoconf only for years and it's working
<pitti> okay
<seb128> pitti, could be technically wrong but that does the job
<pitti> well, it should complain/fail if it wants aclocal, anyway
<seb128> well usually launchpad integration changes are "launchpad-integration" added to a pkg-config line
<pitti> robert_ancell: just make sure to rm -r autom4te.cache/, then it should be okay
<seb128> so it's nothing to do with aclocal
<robert_ancell> pitti: What is in the cache? I delete that out of the resultant patch file
<pitti> robert_ancell: you can do that as well, I just find it easier to rm before I create the patch
<robert_ancell> sure
<pitti> robert_ancell: it speeds up subsequent auto* runs, but these are huge, and by and large just junk
 * robert_ancell doesn't believe there is such a thing as an autoconf guru.  Autoconf is where skynet will come from
<seb128> what is in the cache? cache informations, nothing useful for the package to build
<pitti> robert_ancell++
<pitti> make hazard
<seb128> Keybuk is the closer of an autotools guru we have around
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks
 * seb128 sponsors gcalctool
<didrocks> oh brasero is really well integrated with nautilus now
<didrocks> seb128: and you didn't sponsored gtkhtml3.14? /me is sad ;)
<seb128> didrocks, it's in junk, I only sponsor things on proper components ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: :p
<seb128> any reason you let it in junk?
<seb128> you apparently registered the product
<didrocks> seb128: yes, just forgot to push it again :)
<didrocks> doing it now
<seb128> joke aside if we push it to the ubuntu-desktop bzr would be better to use the right product no?
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: it even has to
<pitti> there's no +junk for teams, just for individuals
<seb128> pitti, there is
<pitti> oh, I was told there isn't
<pitti> maybe they changed that recently
<seb128> pitti, I push versions to ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions yesterday
 * pitti STFU
<seb128> I push*ed* versions
<seb128> and some people looked at it so apparently that worked
<robert_ancell> updating file-roller...
 * seb128 reviews gcalctool, gtkhtml, file-roller
<robert_ancell> seb128: no-one has done file-roller afaik, I'm about to start
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> I though you were uploading it for review
<robert_ancell> seb128: do you use bzr for file-roller? it has a bzr link but it doesn't to clone
<seb128> I think I planned too by launchpad sucks
<robert_ancell> want to clone
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> there is no "file-roller" product
<seb128> the product is named "fileroller"
<chrisccoulson> would anyone object if i took the gnome-terminal and vte updates?
<seb128> so I'm not sure if I pushed to "fileroller" and just delayed to get the product renamed and forgot
<robert_ancell> seb128: ok, i'll have a look
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, not at all, they are yours
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<chrisccoulson> i notice gnome-screensaver is out of date too, but vaguely remember you discussing an issue with that last cycle. is that the case, or is it ok to update too?
<seb128> there is 2.26 in bzr
<seb128> we still didn't resolve this "screen will not unlock after upgrade"
<didrocks> yes, I will update it an see if the issue still exists...
<seb128> but apparently nobody is going to work on that until we got bitten
<seb128> so I'm leaning toward uploading now
<chrisccoulson> i thought it was something like that. i'll try and take a look at that when i get the chance if the issue still exists
<seb128> didrocks, would be nice to do the 2.27 update ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: ok. I'm finishing brasero, uploading cheese and then work on this one :)
<didrocks> brasero done
<didrocks> testing cheese
<seb128> gcalctool uploaded
<seb128> reviewing gtkhtml
<didrocks> it seems that #ubuntu-destkop is owned by bots :)
<seb128> lol
<robert_ancell> I've requested fileroller to be renamed to file-roller
<seb128> reviewing evince
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<seb128> brb
<didrocks> cheese uploaded, working on gnome-screensaver
 * seb128 reviews cheese
<didrocks> seb128: hum, cheese is in universe
<seb128> didrocks, have you looked at the typo fix sponsoring request for cheese?
<didrocks> seb128: yes, I have included it in this update
<seb128> ok, feel free to upload then
<seb128> since it's in universe and you can do that ;-)
<didrocks> that's what I have done already. I must confess ^^
<seb128> excellent!
<didrocks> that's a way to see if I have still universe access :)
<seb128> soon archive reorganisation
<didrocks> for permission, at the end of the release, isn't?
<seb128> during the cycle was my understanding
<seb128> but I might be wrong I didn't follow the details
<didrocks> yes, near the end of the cycle IIRC for step 1
<seb128> ok, I just noted that it was for this cycle
<seb128> I don't care too much since I've upload rights everywhere
<didrocks> of course :)
<seb128> but it will be good for your guys, you will be able to upload your desktop upgrades ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, put gnome-games on your todolist for tomorrow if you didn't yet, maybe open a bug to "register" it ;-)
<didrocks> yes :-) I saw some people still asks for core-dev, not sure if I should in some monthes (maybe even after archive reorg), if I still upload some server packages... well, will see :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: were you going to do gnome-games? If not I'll do it tomorrow
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I had this in my plan. But as there is gnome-screensaver now, I'm delaying it :-) Feel free to do it ;)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: that may take some time, ok I claim it then
<robert_ancell> seb128: do you know how debian/file-roller.mime was generated?  I need to add some more entries
<seb128> robert_ancell, I would say "by hand"
<robert_ancell> seb128: :)
<seb128> just copy the current lines and replace the mimetype and command
<robert_ancell> seb128: I'm trying to work out if they have an executable to test for
<didrocks> seb128: the issue is still present
<didrocks> (for gnome-screensaver)
<seb128> didrocks, not surprised ...
<didrocks> we never know :-) Well, no good traces to debug the issue :/
<didrocks> seb128: do you think it worthes to dedicate some time to fix it this week-end?
<didrocks> or wait for upstream or upload it...
<seb128> didrocks, I would say "upload"
<seb128> nobody is going to work on it until it's annoying enough
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I'm finishing the package so... will see user's returns.
<robert_ancell> I'm loving http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html, so much easier to see where we are behind!
<chrisccoulson> lol @ bug 387715
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387715 in gnome-games "Crying icon in mines too sad " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/387715
<chrisccoulson> some bug reports are quite entertaining
<james_w> heh
<crevette> :)
<didrocks> seiflotfy1: gnome-screensaver is ready, though (and there is a bug with lp inline editor if you click on update description then :))
<didrocks> hey james_w, crevette ;)
<seiflotfy1> uhm didrocks wrong person?
<james_w> hey didrocks
<crevette> hey didrocks
<didrocks> seiflotfy1: sorry, yes, it was intented to seb128, autocompletion rules ^^
<robert_ancell> bye all
<crevette> did someon experienced some black flash on the display recently, I seen such flashes while on battery
<soc> hi
<soc> about https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387518
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387518 in gnome-panel "The auto-hide default settings of the gnome-panel are cumbersome, making the panel look sluggish and uncomfortable" [Undecided,New]
<soc> i found the values i want to change in both panel-global.schemas.in (where they are marked deprecated) and in panel-toplevel.c (as #defines)
<soc> wheere is the right place to change it now?
<didrocks> seb128: (between two flickerings :)) gnome-screensaver is ready, though (and there is a bug with lp inline editor if you click on update description then :))
<seb128> re
<seb128> didrocks: should be back stable now, got some karmic and wireless issues
<didrocks> seb128: hum, you told some days ago that karmic was giving you a hard time? Do you think I must upgrade at this point or wait a little bit?
<seb128> not so sure
<seb128> I'm not quite happy about the intel driver on my laptop
<seb128> but my ati desktop works correctly
<didrocks> seb128: ok... I have a nvidia one. Might worth a try...
<seb128> well it's not too bad
<seb128> it's just that when you walk away and come back on intel your screen might not turn on again until reboot
<maxb> my i915 seems happy
<pitti_> seb128: the most recent kernel enabled KMS on radeon, does that work for you?
<seb128> and that after some hours xorg and compiz eat some gigabytes or ram
<seb128> of ram rather
<didrocks> seb128: hum, that doesn't sound good :/
<seb128> I expect those to be intel issues though
<seb128> my desktop has no such issues
<didrocks> ok. I will try to have some time to upgrade my laptop
<seb128> didrocks: I guess you tested gnome-screensaver? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: screen locking and screensaver launch yes (without hw acceleration)
<didrocks> I'm uploading hamster-applet before lunch
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> I'm uploading gnome-screensaver ;-)
<didrocks> thanks seb128 :-)
<rodrigo_> so, are there step by step instructions on how to submit new packages/new versions of existing packages?
<rodrigo_> I've tried using dput on my PPA and had some problems
<rodrigo_> about missing files, which are supposed to be in the tarball and files I dput'ed
<seb128> how did you build the package you wanted to upload?
<seb128> basically go to the source
<seb128> and run "debuild -S -sa"
<seb128> what error do you get? what version did you use?
<rodrigo_> yeah, did that, even built it locally fine, but then dput'ed it, and there are errors always: https://launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+archive/ppa
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so the upload is not the issue
<seb128> but it doesn't build?
 * seb128 looks at the build log
<crevette> do you have a debian/ folder before doing the debuild ?
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> urg
<rodrigo_> it builds fine locally, as I said
<rodrigo_> and then dput my-ppa ..source.changes
<seb128> rodrigo_: that is a hackish package
<seb128> lecon one, you need an orig.tar.gz
<crevette> rodrigo_, what is the content of the diff.gz ?
<seb128> ie the upstream tarball named tomboy_0.15.1.orig.tar.gz
<seb128> so it will put the debian changes in the diff.gz
<rodrigo_> seb128: ok
<seb128> and you can see easily what you changed
<Laney> NOOOOOOOOOOOO
<seb128> Laney: ?
 * Laney dives in front of the bullet
<Laney> I mean, if someone's doing Tomboy, don't
<rodrigo_> seb128: I got the tomboy sources via apt-get source, is that the correct way, or should I use something else?
<rodrigo_> Laney: why?
<Laney> because I already did it
<Laney> and it's waiting to be uploaded to experimental
<seb128> rodrigo_: that's the correct way
<rodrigo_> Laney: I need the very latest, even will do git snapshots
<Laney> (there is a bug that I assigned to myself)
<rodrigo_> Laney: what version did you package?
<Laney> 0.15.1
<rodrigo_> Laney: ah, ok
<Laney> we got some sexy space savings too
<Laney> thanks to meebey
<seb128> Laney: rodrigo is doing work on tomboy and that's a learning exercise too
<rodrigo_> seb128: so for submitting packages for karmic, what's the process?
<Laney> well whatever
<Laney> but I was going to sync it soon
<crevette> Laney, in that case rodrigo_ is targetting  jaunty apparently
<rodrigo_> Laney: I plan to package git snapshots, so unless you really want to do it, please leave tomboy to me
<Laney> you want to do them for karmic?
<rodrigo_> (once I get this dput thing to work, of course :)
<Laney> or some ppa?
<rodrigo_> crevette: I'0m just testing on jaunty, but will do for karmic also
<seb128> rodrigo_: there is no debian directory in your tarball
<rodrigo_> seb128: so, any step-by-step instructions?
<seb128> rodrigo_: wget https://edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+archive/ppa/+files/tomboy_0.15.1-0~ppa4.dsc https://edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+archive/ppa/+files/tomboy_0.15.1-0~ppa4.tar.gz
<seb128> dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<seb128> look to the directory
<seb128> so upgrade in a nutshell
<seb128>  
<rodrigo_> hmm, ok, so having the ..orig,tar,gz will fix it?
<seb128> apt-get source tomboy
<seb128> wget http://download.gnome.org/sources/tomboy/0.15/tomboy-0.15.2.tar.gz
<seb128> mv tomboy-0.15.2.tar.gz tomboy_0.15.2.orig.tar.gz
<seb128> (or cd tomboy-ubuntu version; uupdate ../tomboy-0.15.2.tar.gz)
<seb128> tar xzf tomboy_0.15.2.orig.tar.gz
<seb128> cp -R tomboy-ubuntu/debian tomboy-0.15.2
<seb128> cd tomboy-0.15.2
<seb128> debuild
<seb128> ups
<seb128> dch -v 0.15.2-0ubuntu1~rodrigo
<seb128> before the debuild
<seb128> you might also need to update some patches or build-depends
<seb128> but that's the basic
<rodrigo_> yeah, I know that part :)
<rodrigo_> ok, great, thanks a lot :)
<seb128> if you don't have the orig.tar.gz it will create a debian native package
<seb128> ie all in a tarball
<seb128> you want an upstream tarball and a diff.gz with the ubuntu changes
<rodrigo_> I'll try with tomboy 0.15.2, so Laney, please leave that to me
<seb128> so make sure you have the upstream tarball correctly named
<rodrigo_> that's what dch does, right?
<seb128> dunno what you did in your case, the debian directory seems to be a symlink
<Laney> rodrigo_: There are some good fixes in Debian git that you probably want
<rodrigo_> yeah, right, it is
<seb128> that's not due to the orig.tar.gz
<Laney> image symlinking and such like
<Laney> saves about 3M iirc
<rodrigo_> seb128: I was confused about where to put the sources/untar them
<rodrigo_> seb128: and so when it builds and works correctly in my PPA, how do I submit it for karmic?
<seb128> Laney: cdbs in ubuntu does that automagically if tomboy is using cdbs
<seb128> rodrigo_: open a bug and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<seb128> add the diff.gz to the bug or a bzr url to your packaging
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> and for new packages, the same?
<rodrigo_> packages not existing in karmic, I mean
<seb128> ask on #ubuntu-motu for those maybe
<Laney> seb128: how big is it installed currently?
<rodrigo_> seb128: ok, great, things are clearer now :)
<seb128> I would tend to say to do the same but they are a review system named REVU
<Laney> he also used pngquant to crush some images too
<seb128> Laney: Installed-Size: 12820
<seb128> Size: 3630274
<Laney> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/t/tomboy/current/changelog
<Laney> given, that is against 0.14
<seb128> cool
<rodrigo_> and last question (for now :) ), is there any way of knowing who is packaging what?
<rodrigo_> that is, I don't want to step on Laney's toes if he's doing 0.15.1, for instance
<Laney> I set the bug to "In Progress" on LP
<rodrigo_> ubuntu-desktop bugs, I guess?
<seb128> rodrigo_: open a bug saying you work on the update and use the bug for sponsoring when you are ready
<Laney> bug 381101
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 381101 in tomboy "New upstream version 0.15.1" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381101
<rodrigo_> seb128: ok, cool
<huats> morning everyone !
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hey seb128 !
<huats> how are you ?
<seb128> good, you?
<huats> busy I can imagine with 2.27.3
<huats> :)
<huats> good too
<huats> so if you have anything to do, I am your men :)
<seb128> that's ok, we have a great team and there is a reasonable number of tarballs
<huats> ok
<seb128> huats: nothing to do right now but I will ping you if somebody comes ;-)
<huats> ok, let's do it :)
<huats> I am around
<huats> :)
<didrocks> seb128: I imagine epiphany tarball, is epiphany-webkit
<seb128> yes
<seb128> and it's on sync with debian so don't touch ;-)
<didrocks> oki :-)
<seb128> pitti is back ;-)
<pitti> meh, my server is back up (they repaired the VM host), but its networking is still broken
<seb128> lunch time, bbl
<didrocks> seb128: have a good lunch
<seb128> thanks, you too!
<didrocks> pitti: so bad :/ That's why I prefer to be self-hosted (appart when you have a power breakage during UDS and you can't access your server ^^): when something bad happens, it's my fault :)
<pitti> they are usually very reliable
<pitti> much more than I could ever do at home
 * pitti sent a support ticket
<soc> hi
<soc> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/387518 any idea how to process with that? i already attached a patch to the upstream bugzilla and i'm hoping they pick that up ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387518 in gnome-panel "The auto-hide default settings of the gnome-panel are cumbersome, making the panel look sluggish and uncomfortable" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<seb128> Hi soc
<seb128> wait for them to reply
<seb128> I think that's a duplicate too
<seb128> that has been discussed some months ago on the lists too I think
<soc> ah ok ...
<seb128> soc: you can try pinging vuntz when he's around, he work on gnome-panel for GNOME
<didrocks> seb128: can I take gnome-desktop?
<seb128> didrocks: if you do it quickly yes
<seb128> didrocks: gnome-settings-daemon is broken because it needs new APIs which are in this version
<seb128> quickly = during the afternoon
<didrocks> seb128: ok. I can do it during the afternoon, I think. The longer is the API breakage check :)
<seb128> ;-)
<soc> seb128: ah ok thanks
<soc> vuntz: are you here?
<pitti> yay
<seb128> pitti: server back?
<pitti> yep
<didrocks> seb128: I have to regenerate relibtoolize. So, that comes to my question for gnome-python-desktop, what is relibtoolize and how to generate it ? (it's seems to generate Makefile.in, like autoconf...)
<seb128> run autoreconf
<didrocks> seb128: but in previous patch, we don't touch to Makefile.am. So, what's the use?
<seb128> looking
<seb128> didrocks: it's to avoid a rpath issue on amd64 apparently, I don't know enough about autotools to be sure what commands need to be ran and in which order
<seb128> you need at least autoconf and alocal I think
<seb128> it's easier to just run autoreconf
<pitti> if you start using several commands, you should really just use autoreconf IMHO, to avoid breakage
<seb128> but feel free to investigate an another way to do that
<seb128> pitti: that's what I do but didrocks likes to understand what needs to be done theorically ;-)
<pitti> (autoreconf -i, in particular)
<didrocks> pitti & seb128 : I will try autoreconf first to run them in the right orders. Thanks :)
<pitti> didrocks: you want to _understand_ autotools?
<didrocks> seb128: you begin to understand mean :)
<didrocks> pitti: I tried... I began a little
 * pitti draws a cross and mutters some exorcism spell
<didrocks> and see that's a mess ;)
<didrocks> ahah
<didrocks> seb128: s/mean/me
<pitti> if you want to understand what your build system is doing, write Makefiles manually
<pitti> :)
<pitti> (well, actually I'm half-serious about it)
<didrocks> pitti: will think about it... really! :)
 * didrocks is already far far away ;)
<soc> vuntz: *ping*
<crevette> soc, vuntz will reply to you, don't need to ping him several times
<Ampelbein> hi there. can i do the eog update?
<seb128> Ampelbein: hey, yes sure
<asac> awe: already running under full steam or still getting coffee et al;)?
 * pitti blinks -- "firefox wifi scanner"?
<soc> crevette: ok
<rickspencer3> pitti: seb128: kenvandine: Riddell: bryce: asac: I forgot to send the reminder mail for the team meeting and to set up the meeting wiki page
<rickspencer3> :(
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> good morning rickspencer3
<pitti> rickspencer3: reports were trickling in anyway
<seb128> rickspencer3: hi, you still have some hours for that ;-)
<rickspencer3> heh
<asac> good morning
<Riddell> I always need a ping on irc to remember the meeting anyway :)
<awe> asac: hey... getting cofffee.  let myself signed in last nite while doing kernel builds.  ;)
<awe> s/let/left/
<asac> awe: thats good. ;)
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-desktop is ready for you :) (had some issues with my pbuilder, which is why it takes longer than planned)
<seb128> didrocks: ok thanks
<hggdh> pitti, ping re. apport-retrace & package hooks
<seb128> hey hggdh, you should ask your question directly ;-)
<hggdh> heh
<seb128> didrocks: you forgot to update the shlibs version
<seb128> didrocks: when new apis are added the shlibs needs to be updated
<hggdh> so there it goes: pitti, we are working on anonymising the stacktraces of Evolution (and others). Is there a way to have a package hook called from apport-retrace on the backoffice?
<didrocks> seb128: I was thinking dh_shlibdeps was doing it
<seb128> didrocks: look to the rules, DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_libgnome-desktop-2-11 += -V 'libgnome-desktop-2-11 (>= 1:2.25.90)'
<seb128> hum there is also still a libgnome-desktop-2-7.install in bzr
<Mark__T> tedg: http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin
<seb128> didrocks: I'm not sure to understand your comment
<didrocks> seb128: I was thinking that dh_makeshlibs was generating shlibs file and the dh_shlibdeps was reading it
<pitti> there we go, "pending approval" specs down to 0
<tedg> Mark__T: Cool.  Why does it have a dep on indicator-applet and not something like libindicate?  (or is that a bin packaging vs. source package thing)
<pitti> hey hggdh
<seb128> didrocks: there is no programmatic way for a build to know if symbols changed and when out of using the new .symbols format
<pitti> hggdh: apport doesn't have a feature like this right now
<rickspencer3> pitti: do you want specs done and the burn down charts running at the start of Thursday, or end of day Thursday?
 * rickspencer3 is preparing meeting agenda
<pitti> hggdh: if you need this, can you please create a bug report with the detailled intended behaviour, and we discuss it there? (please subscribe "pitti")
<hggdh> pitti, will do, thanks
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'm not picky about the exact time
<pitti> rickspencer3: but half of the specs are still in drafting, so some effort is in order
<rickspencer3> let's say the burn down chart officially starts Friday
<pitti> admittedly I sent 2/3 of them back to drafting
<rickspencer3> so specs done, work items pulled out eod Thursday
<pitti> rickspencer3: Friday> fine for me
<rickspencer3> (if they aren't *quite* ready to be "accepted" I'll look the other way, so long as the work is well enough defined for the burndown)
<rickspencer3> sound okay?
<pitti> rickspencer3: *nod*, work items defined is sufficient for the burndown chart
<pitti> but still, all the specs should be drafted by Thursday as well
<rickspencer3> pitti: can you paste me a link to the burndown chart again :/?
<rickspencer3> when you get moment? (want it for the meeting page)
<pitti> http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png
<pitti> rickspencer3:
<pitti> ^
<rickspencer3> tx
<cj> how's karmic coming?  should I upgrade? :)
 * cj pokes eeejay
<cj> how you been man?
<didrocks> pitti: so, do you think that the ubuntu-project template for quickly shouldn't have launchpad binding?
<pitti> didrocks: you certainly do need LP for PPAs and for your user name
<pitti> didrocks: but I'm not convinced that it should register projects
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so, when first releasing, we would just ask the user to give his/her lp project name?
<didrocks> pitti: because when you first use LP, you have a lot to learn. That's why project creation would be an help (but only on release, not on project creation)
<rickspencer3> pitti: what if you want to back up your project?
<rickspencer3> quickly save?
<pitti> rickspencer3: ~username/+junk/project ?
<pitti> that's per-user namespace at least
<pitti> didrocks: on release> right, makes sense
<didrocks> pitti: maybe it was not clear enough in the spec that it was only on release. I thought I detailed that, talking about "dummy project"
<pitti> didrocks: it was clear
<rickspencer3> didrocks: are you going to be around in two hours? I was going to bring up the idea of regular quickly discussion time in our team meeting
<pitti> didrocks: but still, once hundreds of people are using this, we'll get a flood of poorly described LP project, and I doubt that these are meant for that
<didrocks> rickspencer3: in two hours, yes, no problem :)
<didrocks> pitti: yes, that's risky and that's why it's just a proposal. It's somehow handy... but the flood can be a bad counter-part
<didrocks> ok, let's talk in a couple of hours, so :)
<pitti> didrocks: I think we should start without remote bzr, or perhaps with +junk
<didrocks> pitti: yes, it's maybe wiser
 * didrocks comments out his launchpad project creation code :)
<seb128> lool: there? do you know about the 003_gdk.pc_privates change in gtk?
<vuntz> soc: pong
<lool> seb128: I guess
<seb128> lool: what is it useful for? ;-)
<lool> To reduce linked libraries IIRC
<seb128> which ones?
<seb128> and why don't we have a bug upstream about that?
<seb128> brb
<lool> seb128: It was introduced by Josselin with:
<lool>   * 003_gdk.pc_privates.patch: generate correct Requires.private for
<lool>     gdk-2.0.pc containing all necessary dependencies for static linking.
<lool> As you can see, it splits GDK_PACKAGES in GDK_PACKAGES and @GDK_PRIVATE_PACKAGES@
<lool> So that only directly needed libs are listed in Requires:, and all libs are listed in Requires.private: (used for static linking)
<rodrigo_> seb128: at UDS there were discussions on patching g-about-me for gwibber accounts, do you know who's working on it?
<lool> I don't know whether it's sent upstream
<seb128> rodrigo_: no idea, ask to kenvandine
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: me
<lool> I know there's controversy about Requires.private upstream; it's somewhat justified, pkg-config upstream should be trying to clarify the situation, but there's no active upstream anymore
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: haven't talked to upstream yet
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: opinions?
<seb128> lool: ok, I fail to update that to 2.17.2 configure changes since I don't understand the logic, could you have a look?
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: I am upstream, so talk to me :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> planned to
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: well, I think it's a good idea to have a central place for accounts, so yeah
<lool> seb128: I have a meeting in a couple of minutes, but I could have a look afterwards
<kenvandine> everyone in the session agreed about-me was likely the best place
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: yes, seems so, specially to make it useful, since right now it's mostly useless
<seb128> lool: thanks
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: so i was thinking adding a "Social networks" tab, and only display that if gwibber was there
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: the design team also plans to look at that UI
<kenvandine> and make suggestions
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: I'd like, in the long term, to have any kind of accounts (mail, google, etc)
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: that would be very cool
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: have you started working on it?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: it would be GREAT if you did it :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: ah, yes, I guess I can, dobey is also looking at something similar
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: gwibber's config is being split out into a dbus service
<kenvandine> so there will be an API to configure it
<rodrigo_> ah, cool
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: can't it just read a gconf key set up by g-about-me?
<kenvandine> in fact, i think he has finished that
<kenvandine> perhaps
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: ok then, will be back to you soon, as soon as I finish a couple of things I need to finish
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: thx!
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: and another question, I've been told to add a couple of blueprints for new packages needed for u1 for karmic, so where should I create those blueprints?
<kenvandine> http://blueprints.launchpad.net
<dobey> hola
<kenvandine> yo dobey
 * dobey wonders what he should look at
<kenvandine> dobey: you worry about the u1 stuff we need for now :)
<kenvandine> but we were talking about gnome-about-me/gwibber
<rodrigo_> dobey: scroll back my conversation with kenvandine
<kenvandine> rodrigo_ was volunteering you for work ;-D
<rodrigo_> :D
<kenvandine> fun work of course
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: what project should I set for the blueprint? ubuntu?
<kenvandine> depends on what you are doing
<kenvandine> most likely yes
<rodrigo_> it's for new packages for karmic
<dobey> oh
<dobey> so the gnome-about-me ui is really complicated (probably because it's just the evolution address book contact editor UI, with an additional button to change the password)
<dobey> hrmm
<rodrigo_> yes, that's why it's mostly useless
<dobey> yeah
<rodrigo_> only changing the password is the only thing that makes it useful
<crevette> rodrigo_, no it can enroll your fingerprint
<crevette> +also
<rodrigo_> right, that's new also
<crevette> it needs fprintd which is not package in ubuntu
<dobey> that's just a different metric for 'password' :)
<rodrigo_> Laney: where can I get your tomboy 0.15.1 submission?
<rodrigo_> Laney: the source package, that is
<Laney> rodrigo_: I updated it to 0.15.2 earlier actually
<Laney> rodrigo_: It's in the git repository that you'll find linked from the PTS page
<Laney> branches master-devel and upstream-devel specifically
<Riddell> rickspencer3: what time is the meeting these days?
<rickspencer3> Riddell: it's in 58 minutes
<Riddell> ok
<seb128> didrocks: gnome-desktop uploaded and fixes xrandr thanks
<didrocks> seb128: y/w :)
<seb128> didrocks: we are good on updates now ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yes, this time, GNOME people don't release enough tarball to beat us! :)
<seb128> hehehe ;-)
<didrocks> even if they try with libsoup just right now! (taking it, btw ;))
<didrocks> seb128: oh, we are in sync with debian. So, I don't touch it :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html indeed shows a couple of desktop packages with -0ubuntu1 vs. -1, so maybe we can sync even some more
<crevette>  didrocks libsoup 2.27.2 comiiiing
<seb128> in most case we have diff due to launchpad integration though
<crevette> :)
<didrocks> crevette: you're lagguing :)
<crevette> we know you can't refrain you to package it
<didrocks> it was a mistake, I was looking at the wrong package, we are not in sync with debian on libsoup2.4-1. So, doing it :)
<pitti> seb128: I meant libraries, like libwnck or pygtksourceview
<seb128> ah right
<seb128> the first one has probably special changes for compiz but gtksourceview should be syncable
<Laney> rodrigo_: Did you manage to get it?
<rodrigo_> Laney: I'm busy with other stuff, so will look for it later, so if you give me an URL that would make it easier :)
<Laney> easily done
<Laney> git clone git://git.debian.org/pkg-cli-apps/packages/tomboy.git
<Laney> git branch master-devel origin/master-devel
<Laney> git branch upstream-devel origin/upstream-devel
<Laney> git checkout master-devel
<Laney> git-buildpackage -S
<rodrigo_> well, just the git clone command is enough, but thanks :)
<Laney> might need a pristine-tar in there somewhere
<didrocks> seb128: do we use the "libsoup" lp product or create a libsoup2{,.4} one?
<pitti> didrocks: libsoup
<didrocks> pitti: ok, thanks :)
<pitti> didrocks: if we are ever concerned with libsoup3, 2 and 3 are series of that product
<didrocks> pitti: ok, but we don't specify the serie in our bzr branch, just the product, isn't it?
<pitti> didrocks: right
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for the confirmation :)
<pitti> didrocks: well, you can specify it in the branch name, of course
<didrocks> pitti: something like ~ubuntu-desktop/libsoup/libsoup2/ubuntu, for instance?
<soc> vuntz: sorry, now i'm here!
<didrocks> (as LP can now handle more than "3 parts" for branches)
<pitti> didrocks: ~u-desktop/libsoup/ubuntu-libsoup2
<pitti> didrocks: no, what you mean are package branches
<pitti> didrocks: project branches are unchanged (~owner/project/branchname)
<pitti> didrocks: package branches are ~owner/ubuntu/karmic/package/branchname
<pitti> but we shouldn't use them for our packaging-only branches for now
<didrocks> pitti: oh, ok. didn't know there was a difference. ok, let's use /ubuntu atm, we will see if we have to rename later
<pitti> didrocks: right, sounds like a plan
<didrocks> pitti: right
 * pitti yays at his first successful run of PYTHONPATH=. gtk/apport-gtk --symptom camera
<bryce> \o/
<pitti> hey bryce, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks: libsoup should work
<bryce> pitti: doing good
<rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 15 minutes
<rickspencer3> pitti: very cool!
 * pitti invokes "apport-gtk --symptom my-day-only-has-24-hours" and hopes for some solution
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> pitti: share the solution if you fond one, please :)
<didrocks> s/fond/find/
<pitti> rickspencer3: today we got some more work items, I re-ran the collector (see http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png)
<rickspencer3> huh
<pitti> rickspencer3: it seems to have confused pychart utterly, though, wrt. the y scale
<rickspencer3> I noticed that
<rickspencer3> I wonder what happend?
<rickspencer3> in any case, the chart is still readable
<rickspencer3> I have to say, the png's produced on your computer are less than beautiful
<pitti> I know, I'd prefer svg
<rickspencer3> I think it supports svg
<rickspencer3> does it not?
<pitti> http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.svg
<pitti> rickspencer3: it does, but it's ugly as wel
<pitti> l
<rickspencer3> lol
<pitti> perhaps that's just firefox, though
<rickspencer3> what's wrong with it ;) ?
<pitti> rickspencer3: (not sure if you are serious); does it look ok for you?
<rickspencer3> pitti: I was joking, it looks very oddly assembled to me
<pitti> rickspencer3: do PNGs look better on your computer?
<rickspencer3> I'll try debugging it later
<rickspencer3> hold on
<rickspencer3> pitti: I'm not sure, actually
 * pitti wonders where the --make-it-look-good option is
<rickspencer3> I wonder why the scale is so out of whack
<rickspencer3> one thing I can do is make the text and the line thickness a little bigger
<rickspencer3> that should be simple formatting options
<rickspencer3> pitti: are you passing size parameters to the script?
<pitti> no, I don't; I thought it'd infer it automatically
<pitti> rickspencer3: btw, I just pulled again, I'm still at rev7 (no hashbang)
<rickspencer3> in terms of length and width of the chart, I made up some more or less aribtrary defaults
<rickspencer3> pitti: the only change I made was adding the shebang
<rickspencer3> pitti: perhaps you can send me your data in a csv file and I can try to debug why the scale is off?
<pitti> rickspencer3: http://piware.de/tmp/desktop-workitems.db
<pitti> rickspencer3: that's the actual real db
<rickspencer3> so I have to query it with sql-lite?
 * rickspencer3 downloaded data
<pitti> rickspencer3: I added a title now
<pitti> rickspencer3: should I use --height as a workaround, or does that just scale the entire image?
<lool> seb128: I have a new version of the patch
<rickspencer3> height is just the height of the chart, doesn't talk to the scale
<lool> Current gdk-2.0.pc:
<pitti> oops, yes
<lool> Requires: gdk-pixbuf-2.0 pango pangocairo gio-2.0
<lool> Requires.private: fontconfig x11 xext xrender xinerama xi xrandr xcursor xfixes xcomposite xdamage cairo-xlib
<lool> New gdk-2.0.pc:
<lool> Requires: gdk-pixbuf-2.0 pango pangocairo gio-2.0
<lool> Requires.private: fontconfig x11 xext xrender xinerama xrandr xcursor xfixes xcomposite xdamage cairo-xlib
<lool> This is with x11 target
<geser> does gnome-display-properties work for somebody after yesterdays/todays updates in karmic?
<rickspencer3> oops, time for the meeting
<rickspencer3> in 1 min.
<seb128> geser: yes after install libgnome-desktop-2-11 2.27
<seb128> installing
<lool> Current gdk-directfb-2.0.pc:
<lool> Requires: gdk-pixbuf-2.0 pango pangocairo gio-2.0.
<lool> Requires.private:.
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-16
<lool> New gdk-directfb-2.0.pc:
<rickspencer3> asac: may I edit the wiki page?
<lool> Requires: gdk-pixbuf-2.0 pango pangocairo gio-2.0
<lool> Requires.private: fontconfig cairo-directfb
<lool> So there'sa difference here
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: asac bryce kenvandine pitti Riddell tkamppeter seb128
<rickspencer3> ready?
<pitti> o/
<Riddell> hi
<kenvandine> here
<asac> hi
<seb128> sorry for that
<seb128> I'm there
<bryce> heya
 * asac will finish activity report in wiki after meeting then
<seb128> I was testing the gtk upgrade ;-)
<rickspencer3> asac: thanks
<asac> (sorry)
<ArneGoetje> here
<rickspencer3> asac: no apology necessary
<rickspencer3> may I edit it now?
<ccheney> hi
 * rickspencer3 answers own question
<rickspencer3> ccheney: hi!
<rickspencer3> I was looking for calc :P
<tkamppeter> hi
<ccheney> rickspencer3: ah yea i changed my nick so xchat alerts could be useful :)
<rickspencer3> hi Till ( tkamppeter )
<rickspencer3> ccheney: thanks!
<rickspencer3> let's go
<ccheney> eg every reference to OOo calc in xchat alerted me, heh
<kenvandine> hehe
<rickspencer3> please note that I changed the meeting template
<rickspencer3> I'm going to strive to provide a status summary to the world based on this meeting
<rickspencer3> in terms of actions from last meeting, the only one is regarding bug assignement, and I would like to save that until a discussion near the end of the meeting
<rickspencer3> so please review the wiki for the status of action items from last week
<rickspencer3> so, Feature Definition Freeze
<rickspencer3> pitti: any comments?
<pitti> well, my current review queue is zero, and you should all have mail with my whimsical comments
<pitti> some of them are back to drafting and need some fine-tuning
<kenvandine> pitti: humm... you should have my social from the start in your queue again
<pitti> kenvandine: no, it's not
<asac> pitti: wifi is in your queue again ;)
<kenvandine> oh... humm
<pitti> asac: right
<pitti> so, please try to get them at least into the first review round by Thursday
 * kenvandine didn't see a mail
<pitti> there are some specs which didn't go to review once yet
<pitti> also, please add work items to your blueprints by Thursday, so that we can start making http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png actually useful
<pitti> sorry for its bad look, will tune by next week
<rickspencer3> my expectation that the burndown chart generated on Friday morning will be useful for tracking
<rickspencer3> so that gives you until eod Thursday to identify work items in your blue prints
<pitti> so if you are ignoring blueprint mail and sent a spec to "pending approval", please check the status of your's on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/people/+me/+specs?role=drafter
 * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> from what I saw in the specs so far, Karmic will be a killer release!
<rickspencer3> yeah!
<rickspencer3> pitti: it sounds like you need:
<pitti> so,
<rickspencer3> (go ahead, sorry) :P
<pitti> TODO: add work items by Thursday
<pitti> TODO: finish spec drafting by THursday and set them to "pending approval"
<pitti> [done]
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> I would add that the specs should have gone through at least one good round of review by Thursday
<rickspencer3> moving on ...
<pitti> (mind that the original deadline was today..)
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> kenvandine ?
<rickspencer3> partner status?
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> my turn :)
<rickspencer3> (thanks pitti :) )
<kenvandine> I'll start with online services
<kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/DesktopIntegration/Status
<kenvandine> this is a wiki page listing features planned for ubuntuone in karmic
<kenvandine> with acceptance criteria, still a WIP
<rickspencer3> these are tests that you are running?
<kenvandine> this should help us track how things are shaping up before feature freeze
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> i expect OLS QA will run them as well
<kenvandine> but i will track it for us
<kenvandine> ubuntuone-client and it's deps are being prepared to go into main now as well
<kenvandine> well universe then MIRs for main
<kenvandine> hopefully that will go smoothly
<pitti> nice
<kenvandine> I want to start tracking the DX team work in a similar fashion
<pitti> kenvandine: how many of them have automatic tests? (especially for the sync daemon)
<kenvandine> they are doing 2 week iterations
<kenvandine> pitti: they have unit tests
<kenvandine> but no functional tests that are automatic
<pitti> kenvandine: are there tests for 2 sync daemons talking to each other?
<pitti> okay
<kenvandine> that feature isn't done yet :)
<rickspencer3> pitti: is that important, should it be added to the acceptance criteria?
<pitti> it seems to me that this shouldn't be too hard to set up with some shell scripts
<kenvandine> if it is planned by karmic, it should
<kenvandine> pitti: sort of...
<kenvandine> there are a few gotchas...
<kenvandine> like the keyring... etc
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, it'd certainly help to run the tests automatically on a daily basis and spot regressions that way
<pitti> kenvandine: yeah, the sandboxing certainly needs some work
<rickspencer3> pitti: that makes sense, but I was referring to the 2 sync daemon scenario
<kenvandine> i was thinking VMs
<pitti> kenvandine: not saying that it's easy, just that it would be great to have
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> pitti: agreed
<rickspencer3> well ... the first step of automation is often to define the tests
<kenvandine> i will check to see if they have committed to the peer syncing by karmic
<pitti> kenvandine: I thought peer syncing was the first and major goal?
<kenvandine> last i heard it was something they wanted, but no timeline
<kenvandine> pitti: not sure about that... i will confirm
<pitti> IOW, if we take away file sharing, there's not much left, is there?
<rickspencer3> ACTION kenvandine to define priority and timing of peer syncing, add to acceptance tests if necessary
<kenvandine> pitti: well file sharing is there... but not peer to peer
<rickspencer3> aah
<kenvandine> local network stuff
<kenvandine> pitti: that is what you are talking about right?
<pitti> kenvandine: right, thanks
<kenvandine> i will confirm, but i don't think that was super high
<kenvandine> they want more features and the API done
<kenvandine> more services
<kenvandine> afaik
<pitti> so a test script would just use the real cloud
<kenvandine> yes
<pitti> which is still useful, the test suite could drive the web ui to check for success
<kenvandine> ok, DX team now... we are hoping to get them to use the burn downs
<kenvandine> but that is still in the works
<pitti> kenvandine: how's the general bug situation with u1, getting better?
<kenvandine> better
<kenvandine> getting quieter :)
<kenvandine> i plan to align the integration points for both the DX and OLS teams so they don't both hit us at the same time
<kenvandine> define milestones based on that schedule
<kenvandine> so hopefully we don't have both teams beating on my door on the same day to get stuff done
<kenvandine> more to come on that soon
<kenvandine> one thing for us to think about right now, is fusa/gdm
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: what is blocking the DXE team from using burndown charts? Can we help?
<kenvandine> they are working on the fusa changes for gdm now, and should have something in a ppa for us soon
<rickspencer3> oh
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: nothing as far as i know
<kenvandine> just doing it :)
<rickspencer3> do we need to get new GDM into karmic asap for them?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> we need them to align, land the fusa changes at the same time
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to ask davidbarth if the DXE team needs help setting up burndown charts
<pitti> well, we need to get gdm-new working at all
<pitti> and if it does, move it to karmic as well
<pitti> s/if/once/
<kenvandine> pitti: it almost works :)
<rickspencer3> this sounds like an unmet dependency
<kenvandine> but yes, it needs work still
<pitti> independently of the DX work we need to get it in ASAP
<rickspencer3> the new GDM is triggering the FUSA work, right?
<kenvandine> yes
<pitti> since a lot of other things (artwork, boot speed, etc.) depend on this
<kenvandine> it works well enough for them to do what they are doing
<kenvandine> pitti: agreed
<kenvandine> seb128: have you looked at that lately?
<seb128> kenvandine: no
<kenvandine> ted should have fusa changes (proof of concept) code done the end of this week
<kenvandine> which can be built into the ppa
<seb128> good
<kenvandine> and hopefully the end of the next 2 week iteration be ready for karmic
<kenvandine> so we should plan to have gdm ready the same time
<rickspencer3> seb128: will that align for you?
<kenvandine> i installed it in a VM with karmic and it worked after a reboot, restarting the service didn't do it
<kenvandine> but it fails like ever 3 boots :/
<kenvandine> which is weird
<seb128> rickspencer3: yes, the new gdm is mostly ready, I still have an upgrade issue to debug but it's almost good to upload
<kenvandine> i think both ted and kwwii is running it on jaunty
<seb128> it's in the ubuntu-desktop karmic ppa now
<rickspencer3> seb128: ack ... and thanks
<kenvandine> i think that is all i have right now
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
<rickspencer3> Riddell: Kubuntu?
<Riddell> Kubuntu Status
<Riddell> All specs approved
<Riddell> Work items from specs are tracked here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic
<Riddell> KDE 4.3 Beta 2 is in and working well
<Riddell> Main inclusion reviews needed for arora, kopete-facebook, qjson, enca
<Riddell> Big win of the week is elite Kubuntu developer Roman Shtylman had his OpenOffice KDE 4 patches merged http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ooo-build/2009-June/000036.html  http://shtylman.com/stuff/oo/oo_new.png
<Riddell> Big win two, elite Kubuntu developer Yuriy has made an Oxygen icons theme for OpenOffice  http://yktech.us/temp/oo-ox.png
<Riddell> Some community handling needing done in one of our local team IRC rooms, am investigating it along with IRC council
<Riddell> Kubuntu-DE will be joining KDE and Amarok for a stall at Linux Tag next week
<Riddell> Elite Kubuntu developer rgreening is making good progress on the KDE port of USB Creator http://imagebin.ca/view/5E5mIe.html
<Riddell> KDE apps Help->Report Bug now uses Apport and reports to Launchpad, hopefully our beastie triagers can forward upstream the ones which belong there
<Riddell> end report :)
<rickspencer3> Riddell: what's "community handling"?
<pitti> Riddell: OOo KDE4> !!!
<Riddell> rickspencer3: guy incharge of channel is removing admin rights any lying about it, I need to work out the right way to get him replaced
<rickspencer3> also I have the urge to point burndown.py at your todo list :)
<rickspencer3> too bad
<rickspencer3> thanks for handling that
<Riddell> ccheney: do you have any time to look at the open office oxygen stuff?
<rickspencer3> a good example of your steady leadership of the community and product
<Riddell> rickspencer3: I put the work items: in the spec whiteboards too, although it would be nicer not to have to update two places
<ccheney> Riddell: not really until next week I used up my time already this week yesterday
<rickspencer3> action: rickspencer3 to investigate slurping work item status from Kubuntu todo list
<ccheney> Riddell: it should be fairly straightforward (i hope) may take an hour or so to do due to patching the OOo source, etc
<Riddell> ccheney: next week is good.  but let me know if it won't happen for ages and I can try and look at it (although it'll take me longer than it would you presumably)
<rickspencer3> don't forget that ccheney is only with us 20% time :)
<pitti> Riddell: if every table line is one WI, I'm happy to teach workitems.py about parsing this one
<Riddell> pitti: yes it is
<rickspencer3> pitti: that might be good, because it would also create another option for people to track work items
<rickspencer3> like other teams might want to copy Kubuntu, and the tools would be right there
<pitti> seems straightforward then
<pitti> make it an action item for me then
<rickspencer3> ACTION: pitti to slurp work item status from Kubuntu todo list
<rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
<Riddell> poke MIR team about those MIRs :)
<rickspencer3> Riddell: may I suggest that you go ahead and look at that OOo stuff if you have the time, based on ccheney's limited bandwidth for us this release?
<rickspencer3> ACTION: MIR team to consider themselves poked regarding Kubuntu MIRs
<rickspencer3> :)
<asac> Riddell: feel free to assign me a few
<Riddell> will do
<ccheney> Riddell: i can point out what you need to do to make it work
<rickspencer3> Riddell: good job, Kubuntu seems off to another great start
<Riddell> ccheney: that would be useful
<rickspencer3> move on?
<rickspencer3> What was the outcome of the discussion on assigned bugs?
<seb128> we all seem to agree on how to use assignment
<pitti> it was by and large violent agreement
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> raging agreement works for me
<rickspencer3> so does anyone need help *unassigning* bugs
<rickspencer3> asac: >
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> (that seems to be a very individual problem to me FWIW)
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> it seems like if someone has a lot to unassign, it could be rather tedious
<rickspencer3> so perhaps some teammates could lighten the load
<asac> rickspencer3: atm i going through assignedbugs a bit day-by-day. we will see if i need help when i am done with the first round
<pitti> rickspencer3: I wouldn't want other people to mess with my bugs TBH
<rickspencer3> pitti: ok
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti and asac
<rickspencer3> moving on ...
<rickspencer3> here's a discussion topic ...
<rickspencer3> Is there a single or small set of indicators that could communicate our status wrt to incoming and resolving bugs?
<pitti> we have those on a global ubuntu level from the QA team
<rickspencer3> pitti: right
<pitti> splitting it by team seems hard without actually triaging them all
<rickspencer3> which are your referring to though?
<rickspencer3> on launchpad?
<pitti> rickspencer3: resolving bugs should be possible
<bryce> one approach could be to have a procmail script or whatever watching the incoming bug mail flow
<pitti> we could ask the QA team to do something like http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html for karmic, and split by team
<bryce> both NEW bugs, and bugs closed as invalid/fixed/etc. are marked in a machine readable way
<pitti> that would work if we define a fixed subset of pacakges to be "ours"
<rickspencer3> bryce: hmm
<pitti> bryce: QA team parses -changes@ for that list
<rickspencer3> what I would like to see is a report on bugs on the product, not necessarily on the team members
<bryce> pitti: yeah same idea basically
<rickspencer3> pitti: right, is the lack of that list the lynch pin in this whole thing?
<pitti> rickspencer3: list of desktop-ish packages?
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, we could derive it from the seeds
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes
<rickspencer3> ok
<pitti> "desktop" seed minus platform seed
<rickspencer3> pitti: would you have time to work on this with me this week or next?
<pitti> that wouldn't handle bugs which are assigned to the wrong package (of which there are a lot)
<rickspencer3> (and whoever wants to help)?
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> do you think that noise would invalidate the reading>
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> rickspencer3: if it's urgent, yes; I have some other urgent tasks to do, though
<rickspencer3> not urgent, but important
<pitti> rickspencer3: not invalidate, we should just allow a 20% error margin :)
<rickspencer3> ok
<pitti> but I don't know germinate very well myself
<pitti> so we need to consult cjwatson anyway
<rickspencer3> I think we should put this to bed for this week and focus on feature definition, but I'll bring it up again next week
<rickspencer3> perhaps not in the meeting though
<rickspencer3> anyone else, thoughts?
<pitti> bryce: you have X bug stats as well, don't you?
<asac> what kind of metric are we trying to get here? all incoming bugs vs. all fixed bugs? that sounds like a game we cannot win
<pitti> asac: fixing them all shouldn't be the goal
<bryce> pitti: yes that's right
<pitti> bryce: you have a fixed list of packages? or you simply count the ones you're a package contact for, and thus receive mail anyway?
<asac> pitti: i dont say that fixing all is the goal. just want to understand what the goal is
<rickspencer3> asac: what I want is a measure that provides us a sense of the overall current quality, as well as a leading indicator regarding the quality when we ship
<pitti> asac: hm, incoming bug rate isn't very good for that
<pitti> erm, rickspencer3 ^
<cj> how do I tell Jaunty that it's running on a laptop instead of a desktop?  I want it to know to do the power-saving, lid-closing fu
<asac> i dont think that bugs are a good measure of quality
<rickspencer3> pitti: interesting that you say that, why not?
<pitti> I daresay that jaunty's quality is far better than edgy's, and yet we get more bugs
<seb128> well, measuring how much of those bugs are read is somewhat a good metric
<asac> at least not _all_ bugs
<pitti> because bugs primarily correlate with #users, not #problems
<asac> we need to narrow those down to bugs we accepted to be something that should be in a metric like this
<bryce> asac: for X I've found it useful to understand my rate of incoming vs. rate of closed and how they compare, because if the former is too much higher than the latter, or if there is a sharp change in rate, it serves as a signal something's wrong
<rickspencer3> seb128: not sure what you mean
<rickspencer3> bryce: good point, it's the incoming *rate* that you measure
<rickspencer3> like by what percentage is the list growing
<pitti> but for the rate to be useful, you need it on a per-package level?
<asac> bryce: so you look for serious regressions through statistics ;)? thats a good idea, but it doesnt serve the goal to understand overall quality imo.
<pitti> (and I believe we already have that)
<bryce> pitti: right, we take care to ensure ubuntu-x-swat is the package contact for all packages we consider to belong to X, so I can auto-snarf my package list from https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+packagebugs
<seb128> rickspencer3: I mean that we should not aim at triaging all the bugs in a proper way but we should at least look at most of the bugs to pick up real issues and do metric on those
<asac> rickspencer3: problem is that growth probably is related to growth in userbase ... which we dont really know any details on
<bryce> asac: yeah I would definitely agree #bugs is a measure of popularity, not quality
<rickspencer3> but that seems easy to understand
<pitti> for spotting regressions, I liked the "3-day subscription after upload" better, I think
<rickspencer3> the goal is not to provide a perfect measure, but a sense of the overall quality and trajectory
<bryce> quality is a bit harder to quantify...  one idea I've had is now that I'm tagging symptoms on bugs, to compare proportions of bugs with serious symptoms to ones with less serious ones.  If the proportions change, that is meaningful, separate from the overall quantity
<rickspencer3> and I think measuring rate of growth attenuates the growing user base noise as well
<seb128> well, we want a way to mark real issues we picked
<pitti> rickspencer3: hm, I still think that the scaling by users and hardware far outweighs the change of "quality" in the sense of how many bugs we fix and introduce
<seb128> and measure how good we are doing on those
<rickspencer3> seb128: I agree
<rickspencer3> perhaps measuring *confirmed* bugs would be better than *new*
<seb128> I tend to measure desktop quality by number of milestoned bugs
<pitti> measuring #regressions would be useful, though
<rickspencer3> I know it's *hard* to quantify, but that doesn't mean we should shy away from it
<bryce> rickspencer3: agreed
<rickspencer3> incoming regressions would be a good measure
<seb128> ie when we managed to scatch most of the milestoned desktop bugs that's a good sign
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> incoming milestoned bugs, interesting thought
<rickspencer3> and easy to query for
<asac> yes. please lets not try to do course grained overall stats. QA team should do those if they theink its important
<asac> rather look at things that get pushed on our plate, like milestones, team assignments
<asac> etc.
<pitti> we could perhaps get some graphs on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/regression/regression_tracker.html
<rickspencer3> asac: hmmm
<seb128> I tend to use milestones as a todo for the cycle, ie milestone all the desktop bugs I would like to get fixed for karmic
<seb128> and watch this list
<rickspencer3> not sure I agree
<rickspencer3> again, I am interested in understanding the *product* not just the team workload
<rickspencer3> asac: ^^
<asac> rickspencer3: what product in particular?
<asac> desktop-cd?
<seb128> well then we need a standard way to mark that a bug affect the product quality
<rickspencer3> bryce: do you think incoming versus resolved regressions would provide a meaningful indicator?
<asac> or ubuntu
<seb128> and to track the list of those issues
<bryce> asac: Ubuntu I gather
<rickspencer3> asac: desktop-cd more or less
<pitti> I'm just not sure whether it makes sense to do some "desktop" subset here
<rickspencer3> pitti: not "desktop team" if that's what you mean
<seb128> pitti: well that's the issues our team has to work on?
<rickspencer3> but I think "server" and "unr" are probably seperable
<asac> i still have the feeling its a Qa team topic
<bryce> rickspencer3: incoming vs. resolved would be a meaningful indicator.  (For X, most bugs would classify as 'regressions')
<pitti> but foundations/kernel are affecting us as well
<pitti> QA team topic> *nod*, at least we should include them in the discsussion
<asac> of course we can provide suggestions and ideas and request certain things.
<seb128> I think it's good to know where we stand
<ccheney> OOo is on target to surpass evolution as the most upstream bugs by karmic release, it seems latelely almost all of the bugs filed are legitimate though maybe not of high enough importance to fully triage (?)
 * ccheney isn't clear on what level of bug triage he should be doing (outside of the 20% issue at present)
<bryce> rickspencer3: I'm a big believer that "you can't boil everything down to a single metric, without it risking being gamed".  I suggest gathering several different metrics, see what's useful, and use them to calibrate or correlate.  If quality is going up, then several different metrics should all show the same thing.
<bryce> also, once you have a tool to gather/graph/etc. one metric, you can adapt and reuse the tool for another metric without too much trouble.
<rickspencer3> I propose that close down this discussion now ...
<pitti> ccheney: if you watch out for major regressions, that should be enough IMHO
<bryce> oh, sorry
<rickspencer3> but I feel that I can make some good progress in thinking about it given this feedback
 * ccheney takes it offline
<rickspencer3> bryce: that wasn't directed at you
<rickspencer3> keep going, I'm sorry, I sensed it was drawing to a close (obviously wrong)
<rickspencer3> now it's all socially awkward
<rickspencer3> way to ruin the party rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> :P
<seb128> lol
<bryce> rickspencer3: only last point, is I suggest using metrics only for our own education, not for measuring our individual performance, else we'll end up gaming it.
<asac> i think we all need to think a bit and maybe do some after meeting discussions on this. its really a complex task to find metrics for quality ;)
<rickspencer3> bryce: obsolutely
<rickspencer3> very well put
<rickspencer3> asac: agreed
<pitti> or even define what we understand as "quality"
<asac> right
<rickspencer3> bryce: even if we don't game it, it just wouldn't be meaningful
<seb128> pitti: well, "quality" is pretty clear, it define how well user will react to the new version
<rickspencer3> hey all
<bryce> don't forget we can also look *outside* launchpad for measurable indicators of quality
<rickspencer3> bryce: ?
<seb128> the topic seems controversial for some reason
<seb128> but it seems something clearly defined to me
<pitti> seb128: hm, "how well user reacts" is not really quantifyable either :)
<rickspencer3> I'd like to give tkamppeter a moment to give us an update on printing
<tkamppeter> For the printing all looks nice. After getting a lot of complaints caused by the bad PostScript which the Ghostscript-based pdftops filter has produced, I fixed the upstream bugs in Poppler and switched back to Poppler. This fixed everything.
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter: this is in Jaunty?
<tkamppeter> I have also considered this as a Jaunty SRU and discussed it by e-mail. I will prepare the SRU in the next days.
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> last topic, I'll just make it an announcement so that you can all go enjoy your dinners and all ...
<tkamppeter> I get only positive answers and if someone still complained his problem was something else.
<rickspencer3> I've been pestering people about quickly in an ad hoc manner ...
<pitti> *nod*, I'm confident enough now to have this SRUed
<pitti> rickspencer3: (JFYI, I also have two topics, one of which was in my mail)
<rickspencer3> pitti: ok
<tkamppeter> pitti, do you mean me?
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter: thanks for the update
<rickspencer3> moving on to a quick announce, then to pitti for two items
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, I meant we should do this as a jaunty SRU and let it sit in -proposed for two weeks or so
<rickspencer3> I'll set up a regularly time for discussing quickly, if any one is interested, let me know (I'll move this to the mail list)
<rickspencer3> phew
<rickspencer3> pitti
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> so, thing 1:
<pitti> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<didrocks> (rickspencer3: before / after the spec approval? sorry pitti)
<pitti> please have a look at which packages still need to be merged
<pitti> and tell me if you need help with your merges
<pitti> tkamppeter: ^ you have a fair bunch as well
 * asac notes ifupdown
<pitti> thing 2:
<pitti> last week I reviewed the telepathy/empathy MIR bugs
<pitti> they are all okay now, except for bug 384677
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384677 in telepathy-gabble "telepathy-gabble main inclusion" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384677
<pitti> it says "will maintain itself", but if we want to make empathy real in karmic, this needs some dedicated maintainership
<pitti> audio/video are horribly broken, and it's very crashy
<pitti> so I wanted to ask whether someone can adopt this -- kenvandine/seb128/robert_ancell?
<seb128> pitti: we have cassidy and Zdra from upstream around
<seb128> and there is a bug day planned for empathy already
<seb128> pedro is looking at those bugs
<kenvandine> yup
<seb128> and debian get the new versions
<pitti> ah, so we should feel encouraged to file bugs like mad then?
<kenvandine> pitti: yes
<seb128> what else do you want to get added?
<kenvandine> please :)
<pitti> okay, good
<pitti> thanks, fine for me
<seb128> ok good
<kenvandine> great
<pitti> then I propose we'll switch over karmic this week
<rickspencer3> !
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> woot
<seb128> I will look at those bugs every now and then as I'm doing for pidgin
<asac> great
<pitti> [done]
<seb128> but I don't have the bandwith to take over extra components ;-)
<asac> so pidgin off CD?
<kenvandine> i am trying to get my MI patch merged upstream
<asac> ;)
<kenvandine> plan to finish their requirements by tomorrow
<pitti> asac: ish; libpurple sucks in pidgin-data, which needs to be fixed
<kenvandine> asac: yup
<ccheney> is there a way to pull history (logs) from pidgin into empathy?
<pitti> wastes 1 MB CD space
<asac> pitti: yeah saw that bug.
<jcastro> ccheney: I am looking into that (would be nice)
<ccheney> jcastro: ok
<kenvandine> ccheney: not yet... but i think jorge was going to file a bug
<awe> pitti:
<asac> (rather discussion fwiw)
<pitti> rickspencer3: back to you
<rickspencer3> pitti: thanks
<rickspencer3> sorry, I didn't see your mail, or I would have put your items earlier in the agenda
<pitti> rickspencer3: please note down merges as action item
<rickspencer3> my had
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<seb128> I just want to point http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<pitti> note that merges need to be finished by June 25th
<seb128> it's working now but not regularly updated yet
<seb128> code on ~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
<pitti> cool
<rickspencer3> ACTION: tkamppeter to review merges
<pitti> seb128: now we need a "sync" and a "do merge" button :)
<rickspencer3> ACTION: asac to review ifupdown merge
<pitti> rickspencer3: s/tkamppeter/everyone/
<seb128> pitti: right, coming next
<seb128> patches are welcome ;-)
<ccheney> i'm uploading a new OOo later today that will have rosetta enabled for export, then later OOo-l10n using rosetta data once i verify it works on that side as well
<pitti> seb128: sync-source.py -a -f -F, let's go home
<seb128> hehe
<rickspencer3> ACTION: Everyone to review merges and ask for help if needed
<seb128> action: getting dinner? ;-)
<rickspencer3> ACTION seb128 to fix dinner
<pitti> mmmm dinner
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<kenvandine> hehe
<rickspencer3> thanks all!
<bryce> thanks
<pitti> thanks everyone
<seb128> thanks rickspencer3
<awe> see ya
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<ccheney> thanks
<asac> thx
<bryce> rickspencer3: btw, upstream has changed how ctrl-alt-backspace works again.  :-P
<rickspencer3> bryce: lol
<pitti> bryce: !
<rickspencer3> what does it do now?
<bryce> now it's configurable
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> awesome
<pitti> bryce: wasn't it configurable before, too?
<bryce> er, configurable during runtime
<tkamppeter> thanks.
<rickspencer3> thanks tkamppeter
<pitti> bryce: ctrl+alt+backspace changes the setting? :-)
<jcastro> is it alt-sysrq-k-ctrl-alt-backspace? That would be so great.
<rickspencer3> lol
<bryce> jcastro: :-)
<rickspencer3> didrocks: still around?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: of course :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: quickly?
<kenvandine> ?
<rickspencer3> I was thinking that we should start a quickly mailing list, and perhaps set a regular discussion time
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<kenvandine> yes!
<didrocks> yes, it will be lot easier!
<rickspencer3> lool: ^^^
<kenvandine> pitti: i really hope the gwibber spec is good now :)
<pitti> NB that launchpad projects support MLs now
<rickspencer3> pitti: sweet
<rickspencer3> pitti: interested?
<jcastro> rickspencer3: appply for a list now and I can approve it
<rickspencer3> jcastro: I'll try, hold on
<kenvandine> oh know... jcastro has that kind of power?
<kenvandine> s/know/no
<jcastro> \o/
<rickspencer3> jcastro: done
<rickspencer3> jcastro: thanks
<rickspencer3> didrocks: kenvandine: shall we use that list to discuss a regular time?
<kenvandine> great first post :)
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> enough said
 * kenvandine wonders why his laptop is dog slow suddenlhy
<rickspencer3> jcastro: why aren't you on the quickly team?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: on fundamentals idea, yes (like, do we want quickly to creat project), but a regular meeting is great too :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: because one of your torrent trackers just picked up like 10 seeders?
<jcastro> rickspencer3: dunno, I will apply. (list done)
<kenvandine> oh... of course.. .pidgin is making my box swap
<kenvandine> hehe
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> great!
<kenvandine> pidgin with like 30 channels on irc... not so good
<rickspencer3> thanks didrocks, sorry you hung around for nothing :(
<didrocks> jcastro: approved
<didrocks> rickspencer3: no pb. I think I will try to follow desktop team meeting when I have the time :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks: that would be great
<didrocks> rickspencer3: will you answer to pitti's concern on the spec?
<didrocks> I have not a clear idea on everything (like project creation/interaction between quickly and launchpad we want), to be honest :)
 * kenvandine had to reboot to get the load down :/
<pmatulis> is it possible to configure the Panel (add icons) and have that config applied to all system users?
<chrisccoulson> pmautils - i think thats difficult if users already changed their panel config
<chrisccoulson> because they will have custom gconf settings
<chrisccoulson> i might be wrong though.
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: you can set some of them as mandatory
<didrocks> so, user can't override your configuration
<ccheney> kenvandine: i ended up using bip with xchat and irssi, xchat just for alerts and irssi for actual irc usage
<chrisccoulson> it depends what you're trying to achieve really. if you just want to change the default config and have that flow through to existing users, then i think its pretty difficult
<ccheney> kenvandine: it seems to work much better than attempting to use pidgin for real irc
<didrocks> pmatulis: http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/ is your friend :)
<ccheney> kenvandine: real irc imho being more than 1-2 channels
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yes, for existing user, I don't know how it handles if you change afterwards
<kenvandine> ccheney: agreed
<kenvandine> pidgin is killing me
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - there are some hacks in our gnome-panel package for handling things like that, eg FUSA migration and indicator-applet migration
<chrisccoulson> which reminds me - i must finish this gnome-panel package this evening
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: :)
<ccheney> kenvandine: note that if you do end up using bip with xchat and irssi you may want to get the new bip from karmic as it has a bugfix for that usecase
<ccheney> kenvandine: otherwise it prepends weird + and - signs before everyones comments
<pmatulis> chrisccoulson: this is in the context of a locked down environment
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok - then what didrocks suggested will be most interesting to you
<pmatulis> chrisccoulson: i want to force those icons on all users
<pmatulis> and then lock the panel
<pmatulis> i've gone through that resource, but there is nothing that forces the panel "config" on all users, it's always user-based to my understanding
<pmatulis> you can force the panel to be locked for everyone however
<pmatulis> unless i try to alter the *default* config
<didrocks> pmatulis: did you have a look at that, for locking and setting system-wide: http://library.gnome.org/users/gconf-editor/stable/defaults-mandatory.html.en?
<pmatulis> didrocks: yes, but not in the context of trying to alter the default panel config
<pmatulis> didrocks: would you happen to know which key provides that?
<didrocks> pmatulis: I never tried that, but you tell that if you change an icon place on the panel, the gconf key differs, and you can't put it as mandatory (so locked?)
<pmatulis> not sure i follow
<didrocks> pmatulis: IIRC, when you change something on the pannel, some gconf key are created/changed
<pmatulis> yes
<didrocks> so, if you change them system-wide, in /etc/gnome
<didrocks> and then put them as mandatory to avoid people changing them in their ~
<didrocks> you should get what you want
<pmatulis> right
<pmatulis> now i'm trying to hunt down what needs to be changed
<pmatulis> it's not a single key, keys have to be removed and other added
<pmatulis> example: /apps/panel/default_setup/objects/email_launcher
<pitti> kenvandine: so you want to keep tightly integrating gwibber accounts into gnome-about-me?
<kenvandine> i think so, and there is some unrelated talk about adding things like gmail setup to about me
<kenvandine> seems to be the most natural fit
<kenvandine> the goal is to disconnect the "being social" from using gwibber
<pitti> kenvandine: well, the integration could be much more loose by just adding a "Configure social networks..." button there, which starts gwibber's wizard
<kenvandine> like fusa will interacte with it
<kenvandine> etc
<pitti> kenvandine: did you talk to g-c-c upstream about this?
<kenvandine> pitti: yeah, but that feels a little disconnected
<pitti> this will be a pretty heavy patch
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> rodrigo_  might even do the work... or dobey
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> okay
<pitti> good, approved then
<pitti> good night everyone
<pitti> I might do some hacking tonight, but off IRC
<didrocks> pitti: good night!
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> good night pitti, thx
<ccheney> i am having trouble with jaunty on my desktop system whenever i try to go to a window titlebar (i think that is the correct term?) it turns the cursor into a hand instead of an arrow
<ccheney> and i can't drag windows around
<ccheney> anyone seen an issue like that before?
<ccheney> it seems i can sometimes cause it to show as a insert cursor, but it won't show up as an arrow regardless
<ccheney> it thinking i have a stuck key wouldn't cause that would it?
 * ccheney isn't sure how to debug this issue
<kenvandine> ccheney: no clue
 * ccheney wonders wtf is wrong with his desktop system, its pretty much unusable with whatever is going on
<ccheney> i'm pretty sure a stuck key couldn't cause this problem
<ccheney> bryce: ping
<ccheney> whatever is happening also isn't consistent i logged out and back in and its working for the moment, but it seems to keep recurring
<bryce> ccheney: yep?
<ccheney> bryce: have you heard any reports about mouse getting stuck in weird state
<bryce> not like you've described exactly
<ccheney> bryce: on jaunty for some reason my mouse seems to get stuck thinking it is in eg text selection mode from gnome-terminal, etc
<bryce> ccheney: have you ruled out that it's the window manager? if you use compiz, try metacity; if not then vice versa
<ccheney> i'm using metacity, it doesn't happen every time and i'm not doing anything special so i am not sure what is causing it
<bryce> ccheney: can you identify when that started happening, and pin it to a particular update in /var/log/dpkg.log?
<ccheney> not really sure how to track down what actually is causing it
<ccheney> it started happening a month or so ago, i may just need to reinstall jaunty and try to track it down that way
<ccheney> i don't use my desktop machine directly that much, mostly through ssh so i don't know more specific than that :-\
<bryce> ccheney: video driver?
<ccheney> nv
<bryce> hmm
<bryce> ccheney: single-head or dual-head?
<ccheney> bryce: single-head
<bryce> hmm, ok so that rules out most of my guesses :-)
<ccheney> i seem to see it most often when moving around gnome-terminal window it normally goes from the text selection to hyperlink hand to arrow depending on what you hover over, but it seems to get stuck at times and then even going entirely out of the gnome-terminal area doesn't help restore it to normal behavior
<bryce> well, the way this stuff works is that the client applications request cursor state changes through libx11 (usually via a gtk lib wrapper), which puts in the request to the xserver
<ccheney> so when leaving a window metacity should be telling it to change (i guess?)
<bryce> there's a particular chunk of code in the xserver which handles cursors, separate from most of the other code (which is why when X freezes the mouse cursor still moves)
<bryce> ccheney: yeah either the window manager or the client application make the requests
<ccheney> bryce: ok
<bryce> it's conceivable it's a gnome-terminal bug.  from what you describe it sounds like it might be trying to do something special with it
<ccheney> ok
<bryce> another option is gtk, if it affects multiple gnome apps
<ccheney> yea
<bryce> unfortunately on -nv I doubt compiz will be an option, but if it is, that could help identify whether it's a window manager issue or not.  But maybe just experimenting with gnome-terminal and other apps would be easier.
<bryce> e.g., like try running xterm or a different terminal program for a while
<ccheney> i could try running nvidia to see if the issue goes away from the xserver side i suppose
<bryce> if you want to get really hard core, there are some x protocol trace tools (xtrace, xmon, xscope) which will tell you exactly what protocol commands are going through
<ccheney> ok
<bryce> but probably not useful until after you can reliably reproduce it
<ccheney> yea
<bryce> another angle would be to test older versions (like you said, reinstall jaunty, and upgrade piece by piece)
<bryce> I'd probably take a good look at the gnome-terminal changelog to see if they added/modified any cursor-related code recently, in which case that'd become quite suspicious
<ccheney> ok
<ccheney> hmm the last entry i see in changelog for gnome-terminal is mar 19, which was quite a while before even jaunty release
<bryce> anyway, let me know how it goes; I could probably throw a lot more ideas on how to debug it further, esp. if it starts looking like it really is an X bug
<ccheney> hmm are we not getting the gnome .1 release in jaunty this time?
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - i think the .1 release of gnome-terminal was considered for SRU but rejected, as the changes didn't meet SRU requirements
<ccheney> oh
<chrisccoulson> 2.26.1 changes the behaviour of the state saving code for example
<ccheney> ok
<ccheney> hmm yea after looking on lp in the past it seems the .1 release came out early enough to go in the official releast (without updates)
<chrisccoulson> i think it was released in the two weeks prior to release, so everything was pretty much frozen
<ccheney> ok
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: around?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: yup
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: what's up?
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: I added the 2 blueprints I told you about: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/couchdb-glib-package-for-karmic and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/evolution-couchdb-package-for-karmic , could you review them please?
<kenvandine> sure!
<rodrigo_> thanks :)
<kenvandine> is tomorrow morning ok?
<kenvandine> i might get to it tonight
<kenvandine> but can't promise :)
<kenvandine> oh... you need the wiki pages too
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine>                                   Set the URL for this specification
<kenvandine> create a wiki page with the actually implementation spec
<kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/SymptomBasedBugReporting
<kenvandine> as an example
<kenvandine> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-symptom-based-bug-reporting
<kenvandine> rodrigo_: ^^
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: yes, will do that, and morning is ok :)
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> thx
<fta> hm, libgtk2.0-dev broken
<fta>  /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gdk-2.0.pc not totally substituted
<fta> $ pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0
<fta> Package @GDK_PRIVATE_PACKAGES@ was not found in the pkg-config search path.
<fta> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `@GDK_PRIVATE_PACKAGES@.pc'
<fta> ...
<asac> lool: ^^
<asac> hmm. seems seb did the upload
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: ok, done an initial version, will review it tomorrow morning, so review it whenever you want
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-17
<TheMuso> Morning robert_ancell.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso: Hey Luke
<awe>  /back
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: TheMuso hi
<rickspencer3> awe, hi
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: hi
<rickspencer3> sorry, I was tuned out, I was capturing the ntoes from this morning's team meeting
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-16
<TheMuso> np
<awe> rickspencer3: hey back
<rickspencer3> eer, last nights team meeting for you guys :)
 * TheMuso reads
<rickspencer3> awe: are you just hanging out, or are you here for the team meeting, Eastern edition?
<awe> just hanging out...
<awe> i was gonna ask you when this meeting was... now I know.  ;)
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: robert_ancell: how do you want to do this?
<rickspencer3> do you want me to drive like in the big meeting?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: yes, I think that will work best
 * TheMuso is reading the minutes and is looking at things he may want to discuss, just a sec.
 * rickspencer3 drums fingers
 * rickspencer3 whistles
<TheMuso> I still have 1 spec to finish drafting and get approval for, which is audio, however I've asked for help from dtchen to get his input.
<TheMuso> He has done that so far as he has told me, I still need to have a look, but I suspect things are almost in good shape. I'll get that finished off today.
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> let's go through quickly in order
<rickspencer3> Feature Definition Freeze
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: do you have any blueprints for Karmic?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: I have the compiz blueprint, I'm not sure if it needs the same actions as the other blueprints - feedback?
<rickspencer3> can you paste a link?
<robert_ancell> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/compiz-bug-management
<rickspencer3> yes, I think it would be good to go through the process
<rickspencer3> I think your "actions" could be considered work items
<rickspencer3> you may not need a spec, though
<rickspencer3> perhaps add some detail, and ask pitti to review
<robert_ancell> My current status: Have produced a wiki page for users, triaged ~200 bugs, bug count is reduced by 100 since starting
<robert_ancell> OK, will work on that today
 * rickspencer3 adds to notes
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: sounds like you are on track
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yeah I think so at this point.
<rickspencer3> next was the partner update
<rickspencer3> DXE is gearing up, not expecting any particular issues there
<TheMuso> Right, I'll be watching gdm closely however due to possible accessibility issues.
<rickspencer3> U1 is undergoing Main Inclusion Review, looks like the filesynching should be in main by next week
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: are you aware of any accesibility issues now?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Not with current gdm, but I haven't tried the new one yet. Accessibility issues that I have in mind are related to accessible loginw tih speech/magnification.
<rickspencer3> can you please ping kenvandine and tell him how to test it?
<rickspencer3> he has it running in a VM
<rickspencer3> if there are issues, I would like to know asap
<TheMuso> Ok, I am not sure if the new GDM has a different architecture/configuration mechanism to what we currently hae, so I need to look into that.
<TheMuso> s/hae/have/
<rickspencer3> it would be useful to tell kenvandine what to look for
<rickspencer3> so that we spread the skill around a bit
<rickspencer3> is that okay?
<TheMuso> Ok, I'll email him.
<TheMuso> Fine by me.
<rickspencer3> ACTION: TheMuso to email kenvandine regarding accessibility testing for new GDM
<TheMuso> I'll also need to test empathy once its part of the desktop for accessibility issues as well
<rickspencer3> Kubuntu is rocking and rolling as always
<rickspencer3> you can see a couple of new features there
<rickspencer3> next ...
<rickspencer3> Till has fixed a fairly widespread issue with printing, looks like there will be an SRU for Jaunty, fix will be in Karmic shortly
 * TheMuso can help with merges.
<rickspencer3> ACTION: All - review https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html and ask pitti for assistance if needed
 * rickspencer3 suspects TheMuso is reading ahead :)
<TheMuso> I am./
<robert_ancell> Also look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html, it is easier than MoM
 * TheMuso is used to MoM, but looks at seb's script as well.
<TheMuso> c/
<rickspencer3> looks like  you are both mentioned in pitti's report
<rickspencer3> next ... we are going to switch to empathy this week
<rickspencer3> next ... bug assignment
<rickspencer3> this was a big discussion you guys missed last week, but essentially it boils down to:
<rickspencer3> having a bug assigned to you is a commitment to try to fix it in the current release
<rickspencer3> have either of you been treating them differently than that?
<robert_ancell> Assigned means "commitment to fix" to me but not necessarily in next release
<TheMuso> No, although I probably have a few bugs that are languishing that I need to either look at or kill off.
<robert_ancell> but I think next release is appropriate
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: you said we are mentioned in Martin's report. Which report?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, please unassign bugs that you aren't going to fix
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yeah I intend to.
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: ok
<rickspencer3> in terms of the report, i was referring to ACTION: All - review https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html and ask pitti for assistance if needed
<rickspencer3> I just grepped your nicks though, so not sure what context you were mentioned
 * rickspencer3 has been totally busted being lazy
<TheMuso> oh ok
<rickspencer3> ok .. so then there was this pretty long discussion about quality measures
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Since I changed teams, I had my performance review with Robbie, but you and I need to sort out my goals for this cycle/6 months.
<rickspencer3> I am looking for some indicators about the current quality of the product so that I can sleep at night
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, let's chat about that right after the meeting
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Ok sounds good.
<rickspencer3> in terms of quality measures, I'm looking for something to measure, like incoming bugs versus resolved bugs, etc...
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<TheMuso> Not really atm.
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: that metric will probably be getting worse as ubuntu gets more popular
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: right, that was brought up
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: perhaps a debian "testing" style measurement
<rickspencer3> just a raw number of bugs is a measure of popularity, not quality
<TheMuso> Audio hardware bugs are always going to be a pain, due to the pain of hda.
<rickspencer3> I don't know what those are
<robert_ancell> i.e. no critical bugs open, no big bugs being opened
<rickspencer3> so percentage of bug severities?
<rickspencer3> that's a good idea
<robert_ancell> See "Testing" on http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/control-center.html
<robert_ancell> "Testing status"
 * rickspencer3 book marks
<robert_ancell> They have a very mature system of validating which packages are stable enough to go from unstable to testing (all automatic)
<rickspencer3> ok, I'll be dinking with that over the next week or so
<rickspencer3> thanks for the link
<rickspencer3> any other thoughts on that?
<robert_ancell> +1 to have a metric
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> okay, next topic should be a relief to robert_ancell
<rickspencer3> quickly mailing list and disussion time
<rickspencer3> I'll set that up
<TheMuso> What is quickly?
<rickspencer3> what's quickly?
<rickspencer3> what isn't quickly?
 * robert_ancell someone hasn't heard of rickspencer3 baby :)
<rickspencer3> it mows the law, slices your bread, feeds the hungry
<TheMuso> I thought it was an ap of some sort
<TheMuso> s/ap/app/
<rickspencer3> there is nothing more important in this world than quickly
<rickspencer3> </sarcasm>
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: seriouslu
<rickspencer3> https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickly
<rickspencer3> it's a system to make application development on Ubuntu much easier
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> ah
<rickspencer3> including project templates and making things like creating PPAs and such much easier
<TheMuso> ok sounds good.
<rickspencer3> so you can say "quickly release" and it does all the magic to make a ppa for you
<rickspencer3> if either of you are interested, please join the mailing list!
<rickspencer3> that goes for everyone really
<rickspencer3> (but this should cut down on me harassing robert_ancell first thing in the morning)
<rickspencer3> ;)
<TheMuso> I'll probably check it out when its more mature for a11y stuff it has a GTK UI.
<TheMuso> a11y = accessibility
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: didn't get time to look at it yesterday, will try to today
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> schnext is seb128's script, which you've already pointed to
<rickspencer3> and also ccheney, besides changing his nick, has also added rosetta support to OOo, which is kinda cool
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<TheMuso> not from me
<robert_ancell> Note malone is probably going to stop sending notifications of bug duplicates: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/46237
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 46237 in malone "fine-tune delivery of duplicate notification mails" [Medium,Triaged]
<robert_ancell> Yay!
<rickspencer3> coolio
<robert_ancell> (I sent out ~300 duplicate emails to ~300 people triaging compiz...)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<TheMuso> haha
<rickspencer3> it happens to everyone eventually
<robert_ancell> Yeah, they didn't find it so haha...
<rickspencer3> this means you are fully integrated!
<ajmitch> a very welcome change to malone there
<rickspencer3> well, if it impacted them negatively, they need to tune their automated bug handling
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: TheMuso: was this useful for you?
<robert_ancell> yes
<rickspencer3> it took about 22 minutes
<TheMuso> Yes, although I was reading ahead to deal with items that concerned me talking to you. A lot of that stuff probably didn't need repeating in here, since it was informational.
<TheMuso> but that will vary from week to week depending on the agenda.
<robert_ancell> I think we're currently more reviewing the western meeting, I think in future there will be more discussion from my side
<TheMuso> Right.
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: do you have anything to discuss?
<robert_ancell> I'm done
<rickspencer3> there were no agenda items
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: same for you?
<rickspencer3> did you have agenda items that I missed?
<robert_ancell> I'm working on compiz + updating packages this week so not a lot to report
<TheMuso> No I didn't. I'd indicate them in my report if I did.
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> next week we should start with me asking you for agenda items
<rickspencer3> and discuss those first
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: was the review of the western meeting useful?
<TheMuso> I'd put any in my report, so I don't think asking is necessary if they are in our reports.
<rickspencer3> I can just pull out announcements next time
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, but sometimes there are things to *discuss* rather then just report
<rickspencer3> like if you want help, or see a problematic issue, etc...
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: yes
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes I know, but I would mark those for discussion in my report.
 * TheMuso is trying to be efficient with these meetings.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: ok, I'll try to look out for those
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> I'll add a few things from here to meeting minutes before I send them out
<rickspencer3> cheers!
<TheMuso> np
 * robert_ancell eats breakfast. mmmm
<TheMuso> Wow thats late. :)
<TheMuso> Breakfast was a little over 2 hours ago for me.
<robert_ancell> :)
 * TheMuso freely admits he is an early riser.
<TheMuso> Especially in winter, when walking of a morning in the cool air is enjoyable.
<robert_ancell> ok, now that is crazy
<TheMuso> Once you warm up, you're fine. And warm gear is needed of course, but thats no big deal.
<TheMuso> Is evolution 2.27.3-0ubuntu1 crashing at startup for anyone else?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> rickspencer3-afk, robert_ancell: indeed I consider "assigned" as "I will realistically get to this in a reasonable time frame", which doesn't necessarily mean "this release"
<pitti> (which is pretty unrealistic for bugs which you get close to the end of the cycle anyway)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: how are you? The flu is definitevely gone? :)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, absolutely (for some time already)
<pitti> it was just a cold, not a real flu
<crevette> hello
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hum, I think you didn't understood how quickly is looking for commands
<robert_ancell> didrocks: how should it be?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: commands can be built in are in a template
<didrocks> so, you never know if the commands exist when parsing args
<didrocks> that's why I detected the commands in a second step
<didrocks> for instance, now, if I take your version in a ubuntu-project based template project
<didrocks> and try "quickly release"
<didrocks> I get an unkown command
<didrocks> even if release is in templates/ubuntu-project/release.py
<robert_ancell> didrocks: ok, can  we then assume everything preceeding a command starts with '-'?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: no, commands doesn't begins with -
<didrocks> for instance, new is a command, so we have "quickly new ..."
<robert_ancell> didrocks: no, preceeding (before) the command
<didrocks> robert_ancell: that is to say, we have options ?
<robert_ancell> yes
<didrocks> robert_ancell: no
<didrocks> look at the spec, we can have a template
<didrocks> but this one can be included in the .quickly file
<didrocks> I make this check after
<didrocks> and print "unkown command" if needed
<didrocks> the only thing you have to change to your stuff is to accept unkown command at this stage
<robert_ancell> didrocks: where is the spec?
<didrocks> 5qlsom your removed some of the variables I use later :/
<didrocks> (opt_hat_template and opt_template)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: still drafting but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/Quickly
<robert_ancell> didrocks: can that be linked off the quickly LP page easily
<didrocks> robert_ancell: you can add it, but as long as it has not been approved...
<pitti> robert_ancell: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/compiz-bug-management is still "drafting"; I guess you don't actually want to produce a full spec wiki page about this? the whiteboard seems okay to me
<pitti> robert_ancell: do you still want to work on this, or shall I review it for approval?
<pitti> robert_ancell: most actions look fine to me, just "Consider how to manage incoming bugs to keep manageable" is blurry
<pitti> the other action items address this, though
<pitti> robert_ancell: I do like action 4
<robert_ancell> pitti: I just made some work items for it.  The actions was what was proposed in the meeting.  I consider that a list of things we should do and the actions items things we will do
<pitti> robert_ancell: e. g. action 4 should get a work item (write/run script to mark all old bugs as incomplete and ask for re-testing)
<pitti> and another script to time out bugs without response (bryce has this already, I think)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I'm fixing it right now
<robert_ancell> didrocks: ok, I was just doing it too! :) you do it
<didrocks> robert_ancell: if you want, you can :)
<bryce> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~arsenal-devel/arsenal/master/annotate/head%3A/contrib/expire-bugs.py
<didrocks> robert_ancell: it it clearer now, how we find commands?
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I think it's really important the command-line is clear and give appropriate feedback.  When I checked it out and ran it it gave a very odd warning.  And if I pass --laskjda to it it didn't complain at all
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, the option handling wasn't great. I didn't focussed on it
<bryce> robert_ancell, pitti: this one might be easily adaptable for your action 4:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~arsenal-devel/arsenal/master/annotate/head%3A/contrib/needs-retest.py
<robert_ancell> bryce: thanks
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I was running it as a first user might and it wasn't clear to me (understand not the first priority though).
<bryce> both of those expect 'arsenal_lib.py' to be in the current working dir; that file is at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~arsenal-devel/arsenal/master/annotate/head%3A/contrib/arsenal_lib.py
<didrocks> robert_ancell: ok, so, please, fix it and tell me. I will then try it :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: to assure the basic work, you can try to run:
<didrocks> quickly new ubuntu-project project1
<didrocks> cd project1
<didrocks> quickly release
<robert_ancell> pitti: update
<didrocks> "quickly -t ubuntu-project release" must work as well
<robert_ancell> didrocks: But a first user will try
<robert_ancell> quickly
<robert_ancell> quickly --help
<pitti> robert_ancell: nice; please set it to 'review' once you are ready
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, quickly or quickly --help must give the usage :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: and if you run:
<robert_ancell> quickly new template name --arg
<robert_ancell> or
<robert_ancell> quickly --arg new template name
<robert_ancell> does both work/it warn you you have entered it wrong?
<didrocks> no, it should both work (it was the case with the limitted option I gave)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: we only use for quickly our know option
<didrocks> robert_ancell: for unkown one, we give it to the command
<robert_ancell> and:
<didrocks> when calling subprocess.call(...)
<robert_ancell> quickly new --arg template name gives odd response :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: in my version of code ?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, that's bad handled :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: again, I didn't focussed on command parsing, just making it a little better than the first draft I had
<robert_ancell> didrocks: no worries, I'm just be pedantic too early :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: so, if you can make it better, you're really welcome :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I've pushed it back to how it was, you may want to check if the usage description seems appropriate though
<robert_ancell> I think we need to add to the spec how the command processors can pass back to quickly "I got stuff I didn't understand, show the usage + my usage"
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, add it :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: but option parsing must be cleverer than it is, if you have something to propose, don't hesitate :)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: if the user case I gave you works, the basics are there
<robert_ancell> didrocks: I'll think about it :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: also, was there a reason why there is a .ui file for the about dialog?  Usually you just generate it on demans
<robert_ancell> s/demans/demand
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I completed the usage()
<didrocks> robert_ancell: not sure, I didn't handled this part
<didrocks> robert_ancell: it's on pygtk?
<didrocks> some kind of "about dialog" function
<didrocks> (I'm giving myself the target to learn pygtk be the end of the summer)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: gtk.show_about_dialog
<robert_ancell> because you probably don't ever need to customise it
<robert_ancell> I'll make the change
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, a way better :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: did you push?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yes, it's pushed
<didrocks> robert_ancell: if you have some time and can confirm that quickly release in an "ubuntu-project project" works for you... :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: ?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: /path/to/quickly.py new ubuntu-project dummyproject ; cd dummyproject ; /path/to/quickly.py release
<didrocks> robert_ancell: the main issue is that unkown arguments and options are given to the command we execute in subprocess.call() and we don't know if they wait for parameters or not. So, we have to triage between our options "--template, --staging" and leave others alone...
<robert_ancell> didrocks: it should probably notify what launchpad settings it required
<robert_ancell> requires
<didrocks> robert_ancell: look at the comment in commit 55
<robert_ancell> didrocks: hehe
<didrocks> at first glance, I used manage-credential to do it automatically, without asking the user
<didrocks> but well, this is bad to ask for email/password in a third-app
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> hello there
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<didrocks> so, we have to wait for LP team to fix this, I think :)
<pitti> seb128: just to avoid double work, I just sponsored gnome-games, libsoup2.4, and eog
<pitti> grabbing some more now
<seb128> pitti, you rock ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, to fix what?
<pitti> grabbing vte now
<didrocks> seb128: asking from restricted options when use lp crendential (for instance, just "full access" or "deny" in the web page)
<robert_ancell> didrocks: turns out that gtk.show_about_dialog is segfaulting at the moment, so wont add that in...
<robert_ancell> seb128: is there a way to run versions from a desktop? It doesn't like the files in index/
<didrocks> robert_ancell: that's a good reason to avoid adding it, yes ^^
<pitti> seb128: sponsoring with bzr bd is just too much fun :)
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, what do you mean?
<didrocks> (thx for sponsoring pitti, btw ;))
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm running it on my karmic laptop usually, what error do you get? do you use karmic?
<pitti> didrocks: thanks for the updates
<robert_ancell> seb128: if i check out and run i get errors i.e. E:Archive directory ./index/karmic/var/cache/apt/archives/partial is missing.
<seb128> robert_ancell, using karmic uptodate? the python-apt mvo uploaded some days ago is supposed to create those directories now
<seb128> robert_ancell, otherwise you need to create the directories by hand
<robert_ancell> seb128: also, is there a reason why not all the GNOME stuff in in there?
<robert_ancell> seb128: ah, I have a pending python-apt upgrade...
<seb128> what is not listed?
<robert_ancell> seb128: anjuta, cheese...
<seb128> I've been trying to list things we focus on, ie default install
<seb128> we can probably add a second table with some universe components
<robert_ancell> seb128: I was going to make a patch so you could toggle core and everything
<seb128> that would be nice
<robert_ancell> and make the columns sortable
<robert_ancell> seb128: now I can run locally I'll throw a bunch of patches tomorrow :)
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> it works after the python-apt update?
<robert_ancell> yes
<robert_ancell> :)
<seb128> cool
<robert_ancell> seb128: do you mind if I commit directly?
<seb128> as long as you don't break it feel free to do the changes you want ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: that's what version control is for! Rolling back breakages :)
<seb128> I need to set a cron job somewhere to get the page regularly updated too
<seb128> lol, right
<pitti> seb128: don't you run the script on rookery?
<pitti> oh, you need karmic's p-apt
<seb128> pitti, no, I run it on $localhost for now
<seb128> pitti, I don't "need" the python-apt from karmic, it's just handy because it create the cache, etc dir for you
<seb128> otherwise you can do that by hand and use an old python-apt
<pitti> seb128: ok, so you could run it on rookery? (that's much easier for cron'ing)
<seb128> I guess so, though when I tried to run it the other day it created dapper indexed for some reason
<seb128> indexes
<seb128> I need to ping mvo about it
<mvo> seb128: it uses lsb_release for the dist, but that is easy to fix, I will add a commandline switch for it
<seb128> mvo, I'm not using your code
<mvo> aha
<seb128> or rather not your command, I copied the code in the versions.py source
<seb128> mvo, bzr get lp:~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/versions
 * mvo gets
<robert_ancell> gtg, see you guys tomorrow
<pitti> bye robert_ancell
<mvo> bye robert_ancell
<didrocks> bye robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell, good evening
<robert_ancell> seb128 has to be different :)
<pitti> seb128: grabbing pdf2djvu, koffice, metacity
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I'm still catching up with emails from the night
<seb128> pitti, I will do gnome-system-monitor gconf if you didn't do those yet
<pitti> seb128: no, I planned to stop after those
<pitti> vte is still building
<pitti> meh, debcheckout -a metacity gives me jaunty
<seb128> it didn't change since?
<pitti> 1:2.26.0-0ubuntu1 is in karmic
<seb128> ok, so maybe somebody didn't update bzr?
<pitti> apparently
<pitti> and robert committed on top of the jaunty version
 * pitti will fix
<pitti> lool: ^ I commit your 1:2.26.0-0ubuntu1 to bzr now; please check Vcs-Bzr: for uploads
<seb128> didrocks, there?
<YokoZar> pitti: I'm finished drafting https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-wine-integration   if you'd kindly set it to "needs review" (or whatever the next state is supposed to be), thanks :)
<pitti> YokoZar: thanks! oh, you can't set it yourself? that's weird
<seb128_> ups
<YokoZar> pitti: oh I guess I can
<YokoZar> pitti: never been master of a spec before ;)
<pitti> soren: ok, sponsoring queue is all your's, did my daily hour ;)
<pitti> erm, I actually meant seb128, but it equally applies for soren I guess :)
<seb128> pitti, you rock!
<seb128> pitti, btw do you track the polkit-1, etc changes?
<pitti> seb128: (huge *sigh*)
<pitti> I discussed that extensively with mbiebl in Barcelona
<pitti> this makes me weep
<seb128> I don't know about it
<pitti> seems David keeps introducing new APIs without providing a transition path and finishing other transitions first :(
<seb128> but we can't build the current gvfs 2.27 version on karmic
<seb128> because it requires gdu trunk which apparently requires polkit-1 now
<pitti> it's a new API, new storage backend, new architecture
<pitti> having both in parallel would be a very bad idea
<seb128> those guys are on crack sometime
<pitti> and not everything is ported yet
<seb128> ok, so we are sort of blocked for now
<pitti> frankly I'm pretty lost on this one, it was excessively badly planned
<seb128> agreed
<seb128> I will try to get that sorted during GUADEC
<chrisccoulson> some builds of vte are failing with this error:
<chrisccoulson> "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables "
<seb128> at least to have a reliable plan for GNOME 2.28
<pitti> it would be nice to get to know the GNOME and David's plans, also for migrating the existing polkit DB
<seb128> yeah, some archs are broken apparently
<chrisccoulson> what would cause that?
<chrisccoulson> ah
<pitti> chrisccoulson: see #u-devel, seems that the recent binutils wreaks havoc
<pitti> it happens a lot
<chrisccoulson> some = most
<chrisccoulson> thanks pitti
<pitti> seb128: when is the desktop summit again?
<seb128> pitti, july 3 to 11
<seb128> *shrug*
<seb128> -discuss is turning to a troll list
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - whats happening on -discuss then?
<seb128> ?
<seb128> the mailing list?
<seb128> lot of useless discussions
<seb128> today's one is about gnote
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i saw that one. i notice there is a big mono thread, but i've not read any of that
<seb128> I didn't either, I just see the number of message on the topic, what a waste of time discussing the same things
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i tend to skip over discussions like that now. i don't have the time to read them anymore
<mdz> I just got a GPU hang on i965 :-/
<seb128> karmic or jaunty?
<mdz> karmic
<mdz> I got dmesg, X backtrace, intel_gpu_dump and will file a bug
<seb128> did you get that after being away from the computer for a while?
<mdz> seb128, no, i was typing in vi at the time
<seb128> ok
<mdz> hey, I changed my prefs in xchat to use : instead of , and it seems to have changed back
<seb128> my laptop tend to be crashing when i'm away
<mdz> seb128, you have i965 as well?
<seb128> yes
<asac> i disabled "monitor" powersave to work around hangs that happened while my system was idle
<seb128> asac, intel965 too?
<mdz> filed as bug 388357
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388357 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i965] GPU hang on i965 under karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388357
<soren> pitti: I have the day off, so I think I'm off the hook today :)
<lool> pitti: I see you added seahorse-plugins as a Recommends of seahorse to enable seahorse-agent out of the box in 2.23.92-0ubuntu2; it seems this was dropped silently in a later merge; I think we should seed it as a Recommends instead; what do you think?
<lool> pitti: Also, my actual goal is to _not_ run seahorse-agent myself, but that's unrelated  :-)
<pitti> lool: I'd also like it to not be there by default, for the startup time impact
<pitti> AFAIR that was actually semi-deliberate
<lool> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/197578/
<pitti> lool: right, I remember that; I meant the dropping of it in karmic
<lool> pitti: My removal is also driven by the startup time impact of it; it's not pulled in new installs currently
<lool> pitti: Ok, as long as you're happy with the situation, it matches my own use case so it's fine
<pitti> somehow there must be a better way of using a GPG agent than to start it in xsession.d
<lool> Just didn't seean explicit mention, so wanted to double check
 * pitti waves with d-bus activation
<pitti> lool: I think I am
 * crevette_ was thinking the same
<lool> pitti: Well I just filed a bug about that to seahorse upstream's BTS
<lool> Asking to register the env vars via gnome-session's Setenv
<lool> There's already a sehorse thingy started by xdg autostart, but seahorse-agent was a separate helper to set the env vars in the whole Xsession
<lool> rickspencer3-afk, didrocks: How about using the quickly mailing-list as the Maintainer:?
<lool> (I hope that's ok in terms of email filtering/setup of the ML)
<lool> rickspencer3-afk, didrocks: Currently debian/control has no-email-yet@invalid
<asac> seb128: yes intel 965 (sorry, you were out when i wanted to reply)
<seb128> asac: ok, no problem, I'm restarting my session a lot on new GNOME weeks to try updates ...
<seb128> brb on extra time and should be stable for today ;-)
<seb128> ok, all good
<seb128> the table of versions is almost all green now
<seb128> didrocks: there is gedit-plugins in universe to update if you want to do this one
<seb128> and bug-buddy
<soc> vuntz: *ping*
<didrocks> seb128: there now :)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, doing it :)
<seb128> didrocks: stop slacking! ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: slacking for ubuntu = working at my paid work
<didrocks> and the contrary is true, too :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> I'm updating the list there is also vino and vinagre to resync on debian
<seb128> they were not listed
<seb128> didrocks: but they are your name on merge.ubuntu.com apparently ;-)
<seb128> anyway if somebody want to do do those
<seb128> and gtk-engines and gnome-menus
<seb128> I will do the sponsoring ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: there are new merges, I downed my list to 0 previously. I can do gtk-engines as well :)
<mdz> argh, it just hung again
<seb128> mdz: I get the same dmesg traces when my screen doesn't come back after being away
<seb128> it doesn't happen during use though
<seb128> mdz: do you use workrave or something which try to lock the screen?
<seb128> I'm just doing random guess work there but I only got the issue while being away, ie when the screensaver triger
<mdz> seb128, no, nothing
<mdz> and both times it has happened while I was actively using it
<mdz> seb128, what's the bug number for your idle hang?
<seb128> mdz: I didn't open a bug yet, I didn't have an another computer to ssh the laptop the few times I got it and I only have the dmesg trace
<seb128> I was waiting to get some extra informations to open one
<seb128> mdz: bug #383822 seems similar
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383822 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i945GME] Karmic: screensaver causes xorg crash" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383822
<mdz> seb128, thanks, I've mentioned that in my bug
<mdz> seb128, I've turned off desktop effects for now, to see if it goes away
<tkamppeter> pitti, your repo is out of date. it misses cups 1.3.9-17ubuntu3.1
<pitti> I guess they did a security update and didn't commit it there
<tkamppeter> pitti, I make the new package based on the security update and send you a debdiff.
<pitti> tkamppeter: works for me; I'll commit both then
<tkamppeter> pitti, did you get my debdiff for Poppler?
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, here I have one idea to improve LP: Instead of rejecting a non-core-dev upload into main completely, one could put it into the moderation queue (like a -proposed update of a non-release-team uploader). This would make sponsored uploads much easier.
<pitti> tkamppeter: jaunty bzr updated
<pitti> tkamppeter: poppler updated
<pitti> erm, uploaded
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<vuntz> soc: pong
<soc> ah hi vuntz! seb128 told me to contact you about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585963
<soc> what do you think?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 585963 in Panel "The auto-hide default settings of the gnome-panel are cumbersome, making the panel look sluggish and uncomfortable" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<soc> my patch adjusts the default values in both the source code and in gconf, i think that should be correct that way (although i wonder why we hardcode these settings in the source)
<vuntz> soc: the default values in the source are needed in case the gconf config is broken
<vuntz> soc: I don't think setting unhide to 0 is fine
<vuntz> soc: it probably happens that the mouse move there by accident for a small bit
<vuntz> soc: would 100 be fine?
<seb128> vuntz: what do you think about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499148?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 499148 in Menu ""Change menu" not hidden when /apps/panel/global/locked_down is true" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<vuntz> seb128: hrm
<vuntz> seb128: that's a bit broken; if you manually ship alacarte, it will still work
<seb128> vuntz: "manually"?
<soc> yes
<soc> vuntz: 100 looks ok
<soc> should i redo the patch?
<vuntz> seb128: alt+f2 ?
<vuntz> seb128: gnome-terminal ?
<vuntz> soc: nah, this'll be fine
<vuntz> heh, seb128 always hates me ;-)
<rodrigo_> hey vuntz!
<rodrigo_> where do I get json-glib package for karmic?
<vuntz> rodrigo_: hola my friend
<crevette_> salut vuntz
<seb128> vuntz: don't you have a key to lock commands run too?
<vuntz> seb128: I really doubt that bash looks at this :-)
<vuntz> but yeah
<vuntz> maybe it's a good first step
<seb128> vuntz: well, how do you get a bash if there is no menu item to open a command line and "run a command" is locked?
<vuntz> the thing is: when the panel is locked down, you can still configure the applets
<vuntz> and the menu could be considered like an applet
<vuntz> so...
<seb128> well, the sysadmin can uninstall applets that would be an issue
<seb128> I don't say it's perfect but I don't see an issue with masking the editor entry when gnome-panel is locked
<vuntz> it's more a consistency thing
<vuntz> maybe it's right
<vuntz> just unsure right now
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me know
<rodrigo_> seb128: so where do I copy packages for karmic to my PPA from?
<seb128> having the option to edit the menu seems an obvious flaw for a locked environment
<seb128> rodrigo_: what do you mean?
<soc> vuntz: ok, so the changes are accepted?
<rodrigo_> seb128: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Copying%20packages
<vuntz> soc: I will commit that at some point today, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128: or should I just apt-get source?
<seb128> rodrigo_: go to your ppa webpage
<rodrigo_> ah, hadn't seen the 'Copy packages' link :)
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+archive/ppa
<seb128> ;-)
<soc> vuntz: ok, thanks!
<soc> hope that will from gnome into ubuntu in time then ...
<soc> will it work for 2.26.2?
<rodrigo_> seb128: hmm, that allows me to copy packages from my PPA only, it seems
<seb128> rodrigo_: did you manage to get your tomboy update to build?
<tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS debdiff in your mail.
<rodrigo_> seb128: yes, although Laney already did it, so didn't dput it
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> seb128: in fact, I've removed tomboy package from my PPA, now trying to package newest json-glib
<seb128> rodrigo_: I'm not sure, try asking on #launchpad maybe, I never copied packages between different ppas so I don't know
<rodrigo_> ok
<chrisccoulson> anyone mind if i take the gnome-applets update?
<didrocks> seb128: gtk-engines is ready :)
<seb128> didrocks: good
<seb128> chrisccoulson: go for it
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> thank to you for working on the update ;-)
<Laney> rodrigo_, seb128: You can upload if you want; I don't know when meebey will sponsor to Debian
<rodrigo_> Laney: hmm, you didn't upload it for karmic?
<Laney> rodrigo_: No I want to sync it
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<pedro_> I'm so in love with empathy
<pedro_> adium theme support aaaww
<pedro_> hi seb128, rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hey pedro_
<seb128> pedro_: ola!
<rodrigo_> pedro_: I started using it last week, but it doesn't color the tabs when someone talks to me, so back to pidgin for a while
<rodrigo_> pedro_: but yeah, it looks good
<Laney> I've not used it, but if what I read about the notification icon behaviour is right then I'd be pretty irritated with that
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have updated bug 382379
<didrocks> hey pedro_
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 382379 in poppler "pdftops CUPS filter has several problems" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/382379
<pedro_> salut didrocks!
<seb128> I'm a bit puzzled by their focus, ie they spend lot of efforts adding this geolocalization which is cool but not really something useful in an im client where basic im options are not working
<rodrigo_> Laney: that it shows a notification for all messages in all channels/conversations?
<tkamppeter> pitti, when you have uploaded cups to -proposed, please add the instructions to the bug and tell that BOTH packages are needed.
<rodrigo_> seb128: the no-color-in-tabs sucks indeed a lot, it's very hard to follow what's going on
<rodrigo_> seb128: I just had to look over all channels every little bit :(
<seb128> I'm not using an IM as IRC client so I can't comment on that
<seb128> brb
<rodrigo_> lunch time for me, bbl
<Laney> rodrigo_: It puts an icon in the notification area when someone new messages you instead of opeing a new window or tab
<didrocks> gedit-plugins uploaded
<seb128> go go didrocks!
<didrocks> :-)
<didrocks> (I'm remerging sgt-puzzles)
<Laney> that is a really fun package
<Laney> <3 tents
<Laney> why isn't the diff forwarded?
<seb128> which one?
<Laney> for sgt-puzzles
<seb128> wrong channel?
<Laney> dunno, didrocks bought it up here
<seb128> not clue about this package, that's not a desktop component
<seb128> ok, so dunno
<Laney> yeah you can ignore it :P
<didrocks> Laney: the diff was forwarded for the .desktop creation (even if Debian doesn't care). The only point upstream disagree is about svg file use.
<Laney> i don't see it on the bts
<didrocks> Laney: it was on the first patch proposal and when I mailed Ben, he told me he would take the .desktop file but not svg one.
<Laney> xpm?
<didrocks> Laney: sorry, yeah, xpm
<Laney> weird
<pitti> tkamppeter: okay
<tkamppeter> pitti, I want to say one additional thing: The new CUPS package NEEDS the new Poppler package. As I do not know how it works with SRUs I did not add the appropriate versioned Depends: to the debian/control file of CUPS. Please add it before upload if it is needed and correct to have it there.
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, it's needed
<crevette> ah, it reminds me I have a bug fix that worth a SRU
<pitti> dobey: don't worry if you get a rejection mail about icontool_0.1.0-1ubuntu1; I uploaded the wrong version number first
<dobey> pitti: ok. thanks
<seb128> didrocks: do you want to do some other merges or updates?
 * dobey rushes to get a proper tarball of ubuntuone-client
<chrisccoulson> pitti - whats happening about bug 349569?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349569 in ntfs-3g "Please merge ntfs-3g 2009.4.4-1 (main) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349569
<pitti> seb128: nice, lots of green on http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html :)
<seb128> pitti: indeed ;-)
<chrisccoulson> the current situation doesn't need to stop the merge going ahead does it?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I agree
<Laney> seb128: toss some my way if you want
<seb128> pitti: and 3 extra lines will turn green after the next publisher run
<Laney> not that there's very many
<seb128> Laney: vinagre and vino need review, they might be syncable
<Laney> ok
<seb128> if you want to look at those
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> i'll get on it tonight
<pitti> seb128: is it cron'ed now?
<seb128> pitti: no, I'm waiting for mvo to reply to my ping from this morning
<seb128> mvo: hello ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i was looking at the recent debian changes to the gnome-session packaging. they've split the package in to gnome-session and gnome-session-bin now, and also nautilus is no longer a required component in the default session, on the basis that it has an autostart file instead and should start like any other application
<chrisccoulson> does our nautilus package install an autostart file though, and do we want that change?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: I would just not rebase gnome-session on debian they have too many weird changes
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll leave that one for now then
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: if they are still some stuff to do, yes, please :)
<seb128> didrocks: gnome-menus and bug-buddy
<pitti> asac, kenvandine, seb128, bryce, YokoZar: work items ping (http://paste.ubuntu.com/197710/)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I take them :)
<seb128> pitti: we said for thursday?
<seb128> pitti: ie, it's on my list but I though I was not late yet ;-)
<pitti> just a reminder
<seb128> ok, it's on my todolist, finish with GNOME updates first
<walters> chrisccoulson: nautilus handles media insertion right now, so it's a bad idea to autostart (though really the media handling should be somewhere else)
<pitti> Riddell, rickspencer3-afk: http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png collects WIs from https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic now
<pitti> workitems.py now can take (multiple) --moin URL arguments
<kenvandine> pitti, how do we signify that a blueprint has "no action now"
<kenvandine> ?
<seb128> kenvandine: how do you have a blueprint with nothing to do?
<kenvandine> well it was a discussion and there wasn't any real actions
<seb128> kenvandine: could be marking as informational if that's something which require work or tracking
<seb128> +not
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> that is perfect
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> you're welcome
<Riddell> pitti: yay, thanks
<kenvandine> pitti, ok, mine should be all good now
<pitti> kenvandine: desktop-karmic-integrating-with-ubuntu-one isn't your's?
<pitti> oh, right, SteveA's
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> pitti, oh, looks like james_w already finished the review for python-configglue and said he would upload
<mvo> hello seb128
<seb128> mvo: !!!
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, it's in NEW
<kenvandine> hey mvo
<mvo> hey kenvandine
<mvo> seb128: so you want to run your code on dapper? I can give it a go
<seb128> mvo: well, I want to run it on rookery
<seb128> mvo: when I do I get that error
<seb128> SystemError: E:Could not open file ./index/karmic/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_karmic_main_source_Sources - open (2 No such file or directory)
<seb128> mvo: but the sources.list points correctly to karmic
<seb128> and
<mvo> give me a sec, I have a dapper chroot that I can use
<seb128> mvo: index/karmic/var/lib/apt/lists get dapper indexes apparently
<dobey> james_w: is there an MIR for python-oauth, btw?
<pitti> seb128: idea for your versions script: add links to Vcs-Bzr:
<seb128> pitti: good idea
<pitti> seb128: and if you are bored, run bzr log <URL> and check if there are newer commits than the latest upload :)
<pitti> it might be useful if we want to replace sponsoring bugs for those
<seb128> we don't
<pitti> then folks wouldn't need to create them
<seb128> we still need a way to claim we work on an update and comment etc
<pitti> seb128: ah, we use sponsoring bugs for claims?
<seb128> that's what I've been encouraging people to do
<seb128> open a bug when they start working on something
<seb128> and subscribe the sponsor team when ready
<pitti> I see
<pitti> do we have a way now to automatically link those bugs to versions.html?
<seb128> it's not perfect but i've no good solution to that yet
<seb128> the page add bugs tagged "desktop-upgrade" in the comments column
<seb128> that's rather a proof of concept that a stable way though
<seb128> I'm still pondering how to do that in an efficient way
<seb128> and not too racy
<pitti> seb128: you look for all open bugs tagged desktop-upgrade?
<pitti> seems simple enough
<seb128> I look for the desktop-upgrade bugs for each component yes
<seb128> this code is very non optimal, I'm parsing the html
<seb128> I need to port that to launchpadlib
<seb128> reading "https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-upgrade" is a very easy way to look for those bugs, but it's hackish ;-)
<pitti> seb128: why not just parse the numbers and packages from https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=desktop-upgrade ?
<pitti> seb128: it's a single call
<pitti> it's still a hack, but at least its fast
<seb128> I was pondering that but then I need to parse the component
<seb128> should be easy enough
<pitti> seb128: don't you already have that in your downloaded Sources.gz?
<pitti> in p-apt?
<seb128> and it would be much faster to do one query than one for each componehnt
<seb128> have what?
<pitti> seb128: the component
<seb128> well not the one corresponding to bug numbers
<seb128> but that's easy parsing on the page
<seb128> I will do that
<pitti> no, but bug page gives you the bug # and packages
<pitti> and p-apt gives you package -> component
<seb128> right
<seb128> that should be easy
<seb128> but I'm still not so sure about using bugs to claim tasks
<pitti> seb128: if we write a small script to create one, it should be easy?
<seb128> that works for people who need sponsoring but not so much for people who do work and upload
<seb128> well, do we want to open bugs for each upload we do?
<pitti> ah, I see what you mean
<seb128> the other way is to say that we dispatch task
<seb128> ie "desktop-bug-tool <component> need-upgrade"
<pitti> seb128: what about handling it like merges, with TIL being the default assignee?
<seb128> a small tool which create tasks
<seb128> and we tell contributors to work only on open bugs
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-menus done. Off for now. I will work on bug-buddy then :)
<seb128> didrocks: ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti: well, some packages have regular updater and some are in a pool of who comes faster do the update
<seb128> I think we could have this small tool to quickly open bugs
<pitti> seb128: sounds good as well
<seb128> so we can quickly open bugs for packages in the pool
<seb128> since we usually know which ones those are
<pitti> seb128: this would look in versions.html which ones need updating and don't have a bug open yet, and create new ones for the missing ones?
<pitti> that wouldn't need any arguments then
<seb128> well we don't want to open bugs for everybody
<seb128> ie I usually update glib and gtk, I know pango comes from debian, etc
<seb128> but I know anybody can do gedit, gconf-editor, etc
<seb128> so I would say "upgrade-tasks gconf-editor gedit"
<seb128> and it would open bugs for those
<pitti> so if that's a know list, write it down somewhere and do versions.html | filter needs update | filter "anyone list" | filter already existing bugs
<seb128> which make the "feel free to pick work there" list
<mvo> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/197746
<seb128> mvo: danke!
<pitti> seb128: then you just need to maintain the list of those "free game" packages in a wiki, and all the parsing and bug opening can be in cron
<mvo> seb128: you will have to add some dirs in index/debian/
<seb128> mvo: is that working by luck in karmic or a bug in dapper?
<mvo> manually
<seb128> mvo: I did that already
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> seb128: dapper is ancient ;)
<mvo> its much less complete than the karmic version
<seb128> yeah, don't tell me about dapper being ancient ;-)
<Ampelbein> seb128: i pushed a change to your versions-script to https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions. I made it to use python-launchpadbugs to process the bugs tagged desktop-upgrade.
<pitti> speaking of dapper, shouldn't the desktop part go EOL just about now?
<seb128> Ampelbein: hi, thanks
<Ampelbein> seb128: i tried using python-launchpadlib but had no luck so far.
<seb128> ok
<pitti> Ampelbein: please don't use p-lp-bugs; it's broken and unmaintained
<Ampelbein> pitti: ok. I used it because it seemed easier to me than py-lp-lib. ;-)
<seb128> grr
<seb128> IOError: Failed to fetch ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/../project/experimental/Release.gpg Could not connect to ftp.debian.org:21 (130.89.149.226). - connect (111 Connection refused)
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> pitti, seb128: do you know if it's possible to use pycentral with autotools?
<seb128> no clue
<pitti> dobey: I don't think so
<pitti> mixing two build system is very confusing
<dobey> yes, i know it is :)
<asac> rickspencer3: dialing in now
<rickspencer3> asac: I'll set up the bridge
<huats> hello everyone
<seb128> lut huats!
<huats> how are you seb128 ?
<huats> still nothing to do ?
<seb128> good:
<seb128> !
<seb128> you?
<huats> good too
<huats> :)
<seb128> no, people are faster than you nowadays
<huats> ok
<huats> :)
<seb128> huats: see
<seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<huats> great then
<huats> cool :)
<huats> the comments are working ?
<seb128> sort of, they are in the source file so there is no easy way to add those right now
<huats> ok
<huats> it will be great to have that kind of table
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<huats> right now the main lack is the lack of information of someone's working on something
<huats> to know if it worth that I do the bug-buddy stuff
<huats> :)
<huats> or not (btw I should do it seb128 right that is what we agreed at the UDS IIRC)
<seb128> didrocks said he would do it later
<seb128> talk to him ;-)
<huats> hehe
<huats> :)
<huats> I will
<huats> he can let me do some :)
<huats> didrocks: once you are around talk to me :)
<seb128> you can look at ekiga if you want
<Laney> that versions.html could get a MoM style status field
<rickspencer3> seb128: asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-bug-workflow
<rickspencer3> pitti asked you guys for a quick review before he ok'd the spec
<rickspencer3> when you get a chance?
<rickspencer3> thanks
<seb128> rickspencer3: right, should I comment on the whiteboard?
<Ampelbein> seb128: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions now uses python-launchpadlib to get the list of bugs tagged desktop-upgrade.
<seb128> thanks
<Ampelbein> (at least I hope it does so) ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128: sure, whatever is easy
<Ampelbein> seb128: unfortunately I can't test it now, home-DSL got broken and i'm stuck with mobile internet again, so no big downloads for me
<seb128> rickspencer3: ok, I'm going for sport soon but I will look at that later today or tomorrow morning
<seb128> Ampelbein: I will give it a try later, from a quick look it seems correct
<asac> same here. tomorrow is mostly dedicated to spec work :/
<Ampelbein> seb128: please use rev 7 for review, revision 6 had some wrongly pasted lines in it.
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> huats: yes? :)
<huats> didrocks: rarding bug-buddy do you take care of it, or do I ?
<huats> regarding I mean
<didrocks> huats: have you ever updated it? :)
<huats> nope but I read it :)
<didrocks> huats: because it's not straightforward, you have to dsfg it :)
<huats> yeah i know
<huats> I have seen that
<didrocks> huats: if you feel you have the time instead of working on *framakey* *ubuntu-fr* *remix* where you should do some test, do it :p
<huats> I have started to do it right after the UDS
<huats> I haven't received my key yet...
<huats> so...
<didrocks> that's easy :p
<didrocks> ok, it will give me more time to fix final stuff there :)
<huats> ok so I take care of bugbuddy if you are ok
<huats> I might have some time tomorrow
<huats> (and tonight)
<huats> I need to leave know
<huats> now...
<huats> TTYL
<mdz> bryce, awake?
<bryce> mdz: yep
<mdz> bryce, good morning
<bryce> heya
<mdz> bryce, when you get a chance, you might want to have a look at bug 388357.  I've since seen two other bugs which have similar symptoms (the dmesg backtrace), and seb128 says it's the same with the hang he sees when his system is idle
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388357 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i965] GPU hang on i965 under karmic: INFO: task events/1:10 blocked for more than 120 seconds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388357
<mdz> I'm not sure whether they all have the same root cause, but I got a GPU dump for mine at least
<pitti> for bryce, /me alters burndown.py to do
<pitti> +        if state == 'completed':
<pitti> +            state = 'done'
<mdz> bryce, also, in bug 388467, I attached a script I wrote to help collect debug information from these hangs.  some of the code might be useful elsewhere, e.g. filing a bug on the appropriate driver package based on which one the X server is using
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388467 in xorg "apport script to collect information about a gpu hang" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388467
<bryce> pitti: whoops, I'll use 'done'.  For some reason I recalled that it used completed
<pitti> bryce: it's fine, I just updated the script :)
<bryce> mdz, thanks this report has a ton of good detail.  Still reading through it but I think we can get upstream's attention on it.
<pitti> bryce: I have a consistency check in workitems.py which spews cron mail at me when a state is unknown
<bryce> pitti: okie
<pitti> bryce: still doesn't work, though, hmm
<mdz> pitti, the script in 388467 is a good example of one where we want to collect the debug info at the time of the problem, rather than when the user decides to submit the problem report
<pitti> right
<mdz> and in this case, it also has to be collected as root :-/
<pitti> mdz: that would implicitly happen then
<bryce> mdz: interesting; I notice the 3 bugs with similar backtraces all occur in relation to (presumably) some sort of fullscreen activity - period of time after doing video playback, return from blanked screen after idle, and escaping from a screensaver
<bryce> mdz: could be coincidental, however we had a crash bug relating to full screen stuff when we first uploaded the current versions.  mayhaps this is related to that.
<pitti> good night everyone
<bryce> night pitti!
<mdz> bryce, well spotted
<bryce> upstreamed - https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22336
<bryce> will work on it some more after breakfast
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 22336 in Driver/intel "[i965] GPU hang in i915_gem_retire_work_handler() / finish_task_switch()" [Critical,New]
<bryce> mdz: I'm betting there's a kernel patch already for this one.  I checked the intel git log but didn't see anything obvious.
<mdz> bryce, thanks
<mdz> I'm off for the evening, back tomorrow
<kenvandine> pitti, how are we doing on CD size?
<kenvandine> oh... i missed pitti...
<crevette> !:
<Ampelbein> FYI: I updated seb128 to use python-launchpadlib and added a comment-system. Test available at http://217.11.53.243/new/versions.psp, code at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions
<Ampelbein> erm
<Ampelbein> i did not update seb128, i updated his script.
<pochu> heh
 * pochu thinks seb128 is a script too
<pochu>  /usr/bin/seb128 --update-gnome
<Ampelbein> lol
<crevette> pochu, don't forget /usr/bin/seb128 --triage-bugs
<pochu> crevette: that's handled by alternatives, and pedro_ is also registered ;)
 * pochu waves at pedro_ and rodrigo_ :)
<pochu> why do the spanish people end their nick with _ ?
<pedro_> lol
<pedro_> pochu_: because we're cool ? ;-)
<pochu_> I'm cool now too :)
<crevette> pedro_, just replied to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/342401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342401 in totem "coherence won't work" [Low,Incomplete]
<crevette> does status "incomplete" means the bug is closed?
<pedro_> crevette: ok thanks. Nope it just like the NEEDINFO at bugzilla
<crevette> okay, would you like I set it as INVALID ?
<pedro_> crevette: sure, Invalid is ok
<Ampelbein> pedro_, crevette: that bug was fixed by fixing bug 352653
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352653 in coherence "python-coherence: /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.Coherence.service should be included" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352653
<Ampelbein> at least i think thats the one.
<chrisccoulson> anyone know what 02_disable_G_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES.patch is for in gnome-terminal? there's no mention of it in the changelog, no bug report entry and no comments in the patch
<crevette> chrisccoulson, I believe it disables the build with the flag G_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES, but I didn't read it :)
<chrisccoulson> crevette - thanks. i sort of guessed that, but i was wondering why that is necessary, and what problem is tries to solve
<crevette> chrisccoulson, there is a policy to replace multiple includes from the same lib  with only the "top" include like <gtk/gtk.h>
<Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: gtk+ code cleanup i think. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/CleanupGTKIncludes
<crevette> ah sorry
<crevette> perhaps it wouldn't copmile with single include?
<chrisccoulson> thanks, that makes sense now:)
<chrisccoulson> i'll try it without the patch and see if it builds
<Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: according to the link i posted it should build fine.
 * crevette tries to package obexd
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<crevette> is there a tool that ease the check of various licences used in a tarball
<dobey> crevette: sed, awk, perl, tar, gzip, bzip2? :)
<crevette> :)
<Laney> crevette: licensecheck
<Laney> but it doesn't get it right, so verify it manually too
<crevette> the names seems obvious :)
<crevette> arf, I have it installed ...
<crevette> Laney, and does it exist somethink like copyrightcheck ?
<crevette> :
<crevette> :)
<pochu_> unfortunately not
<pochu_> I wish we didn't have to list copyright holders in debian/copyright
<pochu_> crevette: I usually do grep -i -R copyright * | sort | some magic
<pochu_> then manually check them
<Laney> but since we d have to list them, it's good that there's no copyrightcheck
<Laney> because it would get it wrong too much
<pochu_> do you think so?
<pochu_> just grepping for copyright or something, then packing it as appropriate would do the right thing I think
<crevette> what should I do when some years are different for the same person?
<Laney> newlines and such
<pochu_> crevette: I usually pack them in one line
<Laney> just compress them as you can
<pochu_> crevette: like "Copyright (C) 200X - 200Y Foo Bar"
<Laney> start-end if they're continuous
<dobey> what the heck do these icons in the bluetooth prefs dialog even mean?!
<chrisccoulson> dobey - no idea. i've always wondered that too
<crevette> dobey, know bug
<crevette> will be resolved with gnome-bluetooth
<crevette> I'd advice you to install that
<chrisccoulson> wow, my desktop is going amazingly slow right now
<dobey> crevette: are there packages for jaunty?
<crevette> ah, humm not officially sorry
<dobey> crevette: and will it magically make connecting to the devices i'm having trouble with now, work correctly?
<crevette> ah, this is a interesting question. connection problems could come from various component, and I must admit I don't really understand bluetooth thingy enough to give an insightful answer
<crevette> however lastest version is really really better
<crevette> with one click I can connect to my audio gateway and stream sound over there
<crevette> I have a 2 month old version for jaunty
<crevette> not sure if it works fine
<dobey> well i just got this shiny new bluetooth keyboard for my shiny new laptop
<crevette> latest version release today needs obexd which I'm trying to package
<dobey> and i can't get it to maintain a connection
<crevette> dobey, when does the connection fails?
<crevette> -s
<crevette> ho it's late
<dobey> crevette: it shows up as connected for like a second in the prefs dialog, and then the connected icon drops
<dobey> crevette: but there is an ominous key icon, which i have no idea what the meaning is
<crevette> key means trusted
<crevette> IIRC
<dobey> so not helpful
<dobey> i mean, if i paired a device, i probably trust it :)
<dobey> this is crazy :(
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<pochu> buenos dias
<rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
<rickspencer3> thanks for setting up Google Calendar
<Laney> How firm is the "Never introduce a patch system to a Debian package" rule?
<Laney> i.e. if I'm doing an autoreconf patch
<Corey> Will Adobe and Ubuntu be discussing terms to get all Adobe products to work on Ubuntu has like the Mac and Windows ???
<Ampelbein> Laney: Are there any other ubuntu-changes?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> hence the autoreconf patch
<Laney> I have been told in no uncertain terms to never introduce a patch system before, but that is what we have done here
<Ampelbein> Laney: how are those other changes made? directly in the diff.gz?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: np, now I just have to update this morning and try evolution again.
<Laney> no, as a patch
<Ampelbein> Laney: is it likely those changes are applied in debian? what package is it?
<Laney> it's a patch for lp integration, so no
<chrisccoulson> Laney - we use quilt in transmission even though debian doesn't use a patch system for that (at least, they never used to)
<chrisccoulson> noone complained about that
<Ampelbein> in that case, I guess it's ok to use a patch system. lpi is pretty invasive to be handled inline.
<Laney> nah the patches aren't that big
<Laney> I don't like the rule myself, but it exists
<Ampelbein> Laney: where is this rule being written down? I have not found it on the wiki.
<Laney> no idea
<Laney> like I said, I don't care for it so if the rest of you don't
<Laney> let's all carry on our days like I never mentioned it
 * Laney whistles
<Ampelbein> Laney: and btw, if it's a desktop-package and you work on an upgrade, you should use "desktop-upgrade" as a tag from now on.
<Corey> Will Adobe and Ubuntu be discussing terms to get all Adobe products to work on Ubuntu has like the Mac and Windows ???
<Laney> Ampelbein: where's this written?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: here's my daily gtk harassment
<rickspencer3> what the heck is an actiongroup *for*?
<chrisccoulson> Corey - no need to ask the same question twice. If noone answered, then nobody knows the answer to your question
<Ampelbein> Laney: seb128 proposed it in the channel here. he has a script running at http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html to automatically display the bugs tagged desktop-upgrade next to the package
<Laney> i was using that page, but I didn't know that
 * Laney tags
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-18
<Corey> So noone knows then ?
 * robert_ancell reads about GtkActionGroup
<rickspencer3> Corey: this is not really a place where people wold know
<Corey> where would i found out then  ?
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> #ubuntu, maybe?
<Corey> I also wish to know if in the next realise, maybe LAMP should should be pre-installed....
<Corey> #ubuntu I have tried
<rickspencer3> Corey: in terms of LAMP, that would be for the server guys, i would think
<rickspencer3> there is a product called Ubuntu server that is good for that
<rickspencer3> the desktop, not so much
<Corey> Is there any wehre were you can put in requests for next editions
<rickspencer3> Corey: yes
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: It appears you use them to logically group your actions, the example the docs give is having a group per document and joining all those actions together to make the menus.  I've never used them though
<rickspencer3> Ubuntu has an open planning process
<Corey> wheres that ?
<Corey> Do you have the URL ?
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com
<Ampelbein> Laney: i have an own version of that script running, the result is at http://217.11.53.243/new/versions.psp . it enhances seb128's version with comments. code available at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/desktop-versions
<Corey> Cheers I'll check it out
<Laney> Ampelbein: Cool, I suggested that addition earlier
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I didn't find that doc, could you please me link?
<rickspencer3> but essentially, they are optional?
<Ampelbein> Laney: i don't know if that will work on people.ubuntu.com though. it needs mod_python enabled to dynamically generate the comments in html.
<Laney> Ampelbein: find out how MoM does it?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkActionGroup.html
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: i guess so?
<Ampelbein> Laney: pretty much, yeah. the newcomment.py is "inspired" by MoM ;-)
<Laney> then I'd guess it should be alright
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: right, so I read through that, but it's not clear why you need actiongroups
<rickspencer3> I'll keep plugging, thanks
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: let me know too :)
<Ampelbein> Laney: I'll have a chat with seb128 tomorrow, let's see what he thinks about it.
<Laney> sweet
<Laney> I guess I should do this update with a bzr merge
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: I guess you nest actions in an action group element, but glade does not seem to support this :(
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: it sounds like relatively new functionality.  Probably don't want to mention it to quickly users
<rickspencer3> right
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: We should probably make a cut down version of http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk-tutorial/unstable/
<rickspencer3> except that I don't think we should tell people to use the DOM
<rickspencer3> I think you are supposed to inline XML
<rickspencer3> I think glade has not caught up with gtkbuilder yet
<robert_ancell> We need a gap document...
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: do you think we should forget about actions and such for quickly?
<rickspencer3> just bind the controls right to signal handlers and forget all the action/action group stuff, I suppose
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: yes, I think we should only mention basic functionality (let people find out about more advanced stuff themselves)
<rickspencer3> right, especially since the "advanced stuff" is totally half bakes wrt glade
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: absolutely.  Glade is aiming to support everything but it will take time
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: Is there a wiki space for quickly?  I think we need to write down what sort of applications a quickly user would create, then look at can we do that and how hard it would be
<rickspencer3> the whole system seems unnecessarily complex ... I think it should be a simple matter to build abstraction around it, but I just can't figure some of the stuff out
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: please, be my guest
<rickspencer3> https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickly
<rickspencer3> you could add bluerpints and such
<robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Quickly
<rickspencer3> There's some strange relationships between actiongroups, actions, accellgroups, accellerators, and widgets
<rickspencer3> but no one has documented the relationship (that I can find)
<rickspencer3> just the interfaces for the individual classes
<rickspencer3> oh right, and accell paths
<rickspencer3> you need like six classes to set up simple key bindings
<rickspencer3> </rant>
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> kenvandine: they fit right now, but have zero i18n support
<didrocks> good morning pitti o/
<pitti> hey didrocks, bonjour
<crevette>  & good morning
<didrocks> hello crevette /
<crevette> hey hey didrocks
<huats> morning everyone
<MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
<seb128> good morning there
<didrocks> hi seb128!
<mvo> hey seb128
<mvo> hey didrocks
<seb128> hey didrocks mvo
<didrocks> hello mvo
<robert_ancell> seb128: morning seb, check out the versions script..
<seb128> hello robert_ancell
<vuntz> seb128: my dear friend
<vuntz> seb128: I know you want to be my tester :-)
<seb128> hey vuntz, yes?
<seb128> robert_ancell, checking
 * vuntz tests the bugs out of xephyr before using his seb128 joker
<seb128> vuntz, what are you playing with?
<vuntz> just triaging some panel bugs
<vuntz> I can't reproduce http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=332054 and http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570458
<ubottu> Gnome bug 332054 in Panel "Autohide second panel at the top of the screen makes desktop icons jump" [Normal,New]
<seb128> robert_ancell, trying to update but the server seems to not give any data today
<seb128> ie it's hanging ...
<seb128> ah, working now
<seb128> waouh, lot of good work there!
<robert_ancell> :)
 * seb128 run update to see the httml
<seb128> html
<seb128> waouh!
<robert_ancell> it's the one stop desktop shop
<vuntz> seb128: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576865 is a bug in some Ubuntu patch, fwiw
<didrocks> seb128: can you update the online version, please? :)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 576865 in general "gnome-panel crashed with SIGSEGV in IA__gtk_widget_hide()" [Critical,Resolved: notgnome]
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<robert_ancell> seb128: I think you missed my last push, it gets the non GNOME stuff too
<seb128> ^ check out, robert_ancell rocked today
<mvo> nice
<didrocks> seb128: waow, nice ^^
<pitti> awesome!
<pitti> the ordering is much better now, and bug links FTW
<didrocks> congrats robert_ancell ;)
<pitti> robert_ancell: *hug*
<robert_ancell> thanks all!
<seb128> robert_ancell, I've revision
<seb128> 15
<robert_ancell> what is the bzr command to list revision?
<seb128> bzr log | less? ;-)
<pitti> robert_ancell: list what?
<robert_ancell> I have 18
<seb128> did you push your changes?
<robert_ancell> pitti: list the revision
<robert_ancell> I pushed them as you were downloading. they seem all pushed
 * seb128 pulls again
<seb128> that's being sloooow today for some reason
<robert_ancell> pitti: what was the issue with the builds last night?
<seb128> what issue?
<pitti> robert_ancell: bzr log|head or bzr info -v
<pitti> robert_ancell: new binutils was uploaded, should be fixed now
<robert_ancell> pitti: The logs were gone when I woke up so I couldn't see that the problem was with gnome-games
<robert_ancell> s/that/what
<pitti> robert_ancell: I mailed you the two "real" FTBFSes
<seb128> if there is no log that's because there is a new build?
<pitti> the others were just binutils fallout and were retried
<robert_ancell> pitti: the links in the emails were dead
<pitti> right, because of the mega give-back
<pitti> robert_ancell: just delete them
<seb128> the build logs are cleaned when the builds are retried
<seb128> ok, bzr just hang on me today
 * seb128 kicks launchpad
<pitti> robert_ancell: you can ook at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-games -> click on top version to get the current logs
<robert_ancell> pitti: i see now, thanks
<seb128> *shrug*, 160 bug emails during the night
<seb128> and -discuss is crazy too today
<didrocks> seb128: I think you can almost mark all of them as read... a lot of trolls... :/
<seb128> didrocks, I did go through those quickly yes
<seb128> I'm pondering un-subscribing
<seb128> the ratio signal noise is too high nowadays
<didrocks> fortunately, I have two hours a day of transportation, that enables me to do/triage this paperwork thanks to my gphone ^^
<seb128> urg, that's quite a lot
<seb128> ok, launchpad doesn't reply, reconnection to see if that's an issue there
<didrocks> seiflotfy: "urg, that's quite a lot" -> Paris... ^^
<didrocks> oupss, sorry seiflotfy
<pitti> seb128: hm, bzr push hangs for me as well
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, I will get your new revisions and update the page when they fix launchpad
<robert_ancell> seb128: cool
<seb128> robert_ancell, anyway good job, the page looks much better now ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw how do you get versions for non GNOME components?
<seb128> I'm curious
<crevette> didrocks, I thought you were working for cano, as I see you working a lot of time on packaging during the dauy
<crevette> :)
<seb128> you look to the upstream tarballs?
<robert_ancell> seb128: scan the pages for tarball names
<robert_ancell> seb128: messy but works
<didrocks> crevette: no, I'm just "effective" enough in my daily work so that people don't remark this :p
<seb128> robert_ancell, you code the urls for each component in the source?
<seb128> didrocks, make me think about my job before canonical ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128: yes, each package has a URL. The GNOME packages all have the same URL and it uses vincents list instead for them
<didrocks> seb128: :-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok good, I know about the GNOME versions I did this one ;-)
<seb128> now we just need a way to run that script regularly somewhere
<robert_ancell> seb128: I think we should split the script into two so it can scan for upstream versions each day and scan for LP bugs each time it is run
<seb128> I'm not sure where somewhere is yet though
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah I was thinking about something like that too, though maybe versions more often than 1 day on new GNOME days
<robert_ancell> agreed
<seb128> pitti, mvo: any idea where I could run the versions script?
<pitti> seb128: I'd use rookery
<seb128> rookery can't connect to ftp.debian.org
<pitti> seb128: works fine for me
<seb128> weird
<pitti> pitti@rookery:~$ wget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/README.html
<seb128> $ lftp ftp.debian.org
<seb128> lftp ftp.debian.org:~> debug 3
<seb128> lftp ftp.debian.org:~> ls
<seb128> ---- Connecting to ftp.debian.org (130.89.149.226) port 21
<seb128> **** Socket error (Connection refused) - reconnecting
<pitti> seb128: ah, I guess the firewall allows http, but not ftp
<seb128> oh
<seb128> ok, that's easy then ;-)
<seb128> indeed, my experimental sources were using ftp, works when using http now
 * pitti -> dentist, bbl
<seb128> pitti, good luck
<crevette> bzzzzZZZzz
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i assigned bug 388263 to myself. i already started it sometime ago, but it got sidelined due to other committments
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388263 in gnome-panel "Update to 2.26.2, merge with Debian" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388263
 * chrisccoulson thinks all that green is too bright for his eyes
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson: cool, I started working but ended up a bit lost :)
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - it's quite a lot of work
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, update works now
<seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html updated
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson: less green for you now :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, maybe we could split the page in 2 tables?
<seb128> there is some weird components you added there
<seb128> ie poedit?
<robert_ancell> I dunno, I was just added stuff into extras that I had installed... I want to make the extras stuff invisible by default and have a toggle at the top of the page
<seb128> or blender?
<seb128> anyway it's already much better
<seb128> we can do tweaking on the way if required
<seb128> I will set a cron job today to update the list
<robert_ancell> We should look at poularitycontest and make the top installed stuff able to be shown
<seb128> well, I think we have enough to do already
<robert_ancell> Absolutely, it's always a work in progress.
<seb128> so we should probably limit that to components we work on
<seb128> or have 2 pages, one for ubuntu-desktop and one for extra components
<seb128> the other are nice to track but not a priority to work on for us
<robert_ancell> Sure
<robert_ancell> I tried to put everything in default_packages that is in the default desktop install
<vuntz> stupid question: where's the show desktop button on the default panel on ubuntu?
<seb128> right
<seb128> vuntz, top right corner?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> ignore me, I'm not sure
<seb128> rather bottom left in fact I think ;-)
<vuntz> so like upstream?
<seb128> yes
<vuntz> okay... So I don't understand http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=540147 :-)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 540147 in Show Desktop Button "show desktop on the left side" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> vuntz, the guy says he's using mandriva
<vuntz> yeah, but they said they were using upstream defaults...
<vuntz> asking to mandriva people now
<robert_ancell> bye all
<seb128> robert_ancell, bye
<didrocks> seb128: maybe we should differentiate "open task" (opened bug, in progress state") and "ready to sponsor" (bug in triaged state) in versions.html? Because here, we have no clue that bug-buddy is actively updated bu huats for instance, and if he opened a bug, you don't know if it's ready to be sponsored or not.
<seb128> didrocks, open a bug when you start on something subscribe sponsors when ready?
<seb128> we can easily look for the sponsor team being subscribed or not
<didrocks> seb128: yes, also. We just have to put this information in the page. I can do it tonight.
<seb128> cool
<seb128> dpm, hello
<seb128> dpm, could you have a look to bug #357678 and try to make sure it gets fixed in the next italian language pack update?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357678 in evolution "event time cannot be specified any more" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357678
<seb128> it's a frequent issue for italian users apparently
<mvo> if noone mind, I can take the metacity sponsoring
<seb128> mvo, go for it, there is another update? pitti did an upload yesterday I think, check before if that was just a bug not closed or an another change
<seb128> oh ftbfs fix, ok good
<mvo> seb128: its one from robert, it was not commited yet, fixes a build failure
<seb128> cool
 * mvo uploads
<asac> mvo: hi
<asac> mvo: do you have a minute or five today to discuss something on third party stuff?
<mvo> asac: sure
<mvo> asac: phonecall?
<asac> mvo: yes. what time would be best (not right now please)?
<dpm> seb128: hi, I'm reading the bug report right now...
<seb128> dpm, thanks
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - iwas thinking about taking a look at fixing gnome bug 164057 if no-one else is interested in working on it. what are your thoughts on how it should behave?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: not well-formed (invalid token): line 76, column 27 (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=164057)
<chrisccoulson> ugh
<chrisccoulson> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164057
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: not well-formed (invalid token): line 76, column 27 (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=164057)
<mvo> asac: after lunch? I don't really mind the time as long as its not too late
<seb128> chrisccoulson, there is a bug which has a patch to add a gconf key somewhere
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549788
<asac> mvo: when is lunch in your world?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 549788 in Panel "Make MAX_ITEMS_OR_SUBMENU a gconf key" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> seb128: thanks, was just checking today; I have two followup sessions with real bzzzzzz now, though :/
<pitti> seb128, mvo: metacity yesterday was FTBFS, this will probably be the fix
<pitti> so go for it
<seb128> pitti, checking what? I switched context since I pinged you I think ;-)
<vuntz> chrisccoulson: no strong opinion. Calum's idea was nice, except that we'd need to put the most used locations inline. And we don't have the notion of "most used"
<pitti> seb128: dentist
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> pitti, good ;-)
<seb128> not so much for the bzzzzzz though
<pitti> two ancient fillings need to be replaced
<seb128> I will probably have some of those soon too
<pitti> haven't been to the dentist for 3 years, was about time
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> I tend to go once a year for checking
<seb128> *shrug*, users complaining about logout sound not working
<crevette> pitti, I went there two weeks ago, didn't went to see him for 5 years (shame)
<crevette> I was happy when i told me "no problem"
<crevette> :)
<pitti> lucky you!
<pitti> seb128: feature!
<seb128> pitti, "who cares"? ;-)
<seb128> the hundredpapercut is creating lot of noise for sure
<seb128> everybody claim having paper cut issues now
<asac> crevette: do you know http://www.blueman-project.org/ ?
<chrisccoulson> thanks seb128
<crevette> asac, I heard of it
<chrisccoulson> vuntz - yeah, i like calum's idea too. i don't know how you define "most used" either really though
<chrisccoulson> also, the bookmarks menu collapses in the same way too doesn't it?
<asac> crevette: I think we need a package so we can test/compare
<crevette> I seen a packaging in a PPA
<asac> crevette: i tested gnome-bluetooth and asked me about a few things, which blueman seems to have addressed
<asac> especially wrt to DUN networks
<asac> crevette: any clue about that PPA?
<crevette> I confess I don't do networking with bluetooth, so I can't say :), my use-case is quite limited
<crevette> https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueman/+archive/ppa
<asac> debian bug 448153
<ubottu> Debian bug 448153 in wnpp "ITP: blueman -- GTK+ bluetooth management utility for GNOME" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/448153
<asac> thx
<seb128> brb
<asac> which team is owning UNR? is that us?
<asac> or mobile? ... or noclue?
<pitti> asac: mobile
<pitti> asac: so, David Mandala
<asac> thx
<mdz> so, after a gpu hang and a reboot, my pointing device (trackpoint) is no longer detected :-/
<mdz> it seems to not be in hal anymore
<mdz> there is no input device for it
<mdz> seems like a kernel problem, but my kernel hasn't changed
<asac> scary. maybe you to powercycle your machine completely?
<mdz> yeah, I'll try that
<mdz> asac, yep, that fixed it
<asac> good. so i can get the latest bits without loosing my pointer ;). thanks!
 * asac upgrades
<asac> crevette: seems we have blueman already ;)
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman
<asac> came from debian a few days ago
<pitti> hm, today's live CD didn't build, because of empathy
<pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/karmic/ubuntu/latest/livecd-20090618-i386.out
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ seems some more MIRs are in order
<asac> yeah
<asac> wow. so blueman is kind of impressive ;)
<pitti> asac: better than gnome-bluetooth?
<pitti> indeed, just looked at the screenshots
<seb128> whiteboard change emails are the suck they don't tell you what changed
<asac> first time i have the feeling that bluetooth just worked (now we just need a better volume applet that covers more features from pavucontrol - like moving streams)
<asac> created a dialup network for my phone and it just showed up in NM ;)
<asac> do we know what is planned for the volume applet this cycle?
<asac> seb128: ?
<seb128> asac: we will switch to the new pulseaudio upstream one
<asac> seb128: is that somewhere to test?
<seb128> asac: sudo apt-get install gnome-volume-control-pulse
<seb128> asac: are you speaking about the applet or the mixer dialog?
<seb128> asac: gnome-volume-control-settings is the new upstream dialog
<asac> thanks.  i will just check both
<pitti> ugh, review queue empty once again
<pitti> I think now I reviewed all karmic-targetted specs at least once
<pitti> asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-audio-experience says we're going to use the puse-enabled mixer
<pitti> lunch o'clok
<seb128> pitti: enjoy
 * seb128 just back from lunch
<seb128> pedro_: ola!
<pedro_> salut seb128!
<pitti> crevette: I just checked the Debian/Ubuntu obex-data-server diff, looks like it's mostly just noise and we can sync
<crevette> ah okay, true there is my name on it :)
 * pitti is currently checking the merges list
<crevette> I trust on you, go ahead !!
<pitti> crevette: this is the only weird change:
<pitti> +       install -D -m 0644 $(CURDIR)/data/obex-data-server.conf $(CURDIR)/debian/obex-data-server/etc/dbus-1/system.d/obex-data-server.conf
<pitti> ^ i. e. debian does _not_ have this line
<pitti> my Q is, why does obex-data-server need a system d-bus configuration file in the first place?
<pitti> isn't this per-user?
<pitti> on the session bus?
<crevette> there is both but we use session bus
<pitti> crevette: do you care about this? if not, I'd just sync
<crevette> I'm not sure I understand the impact, I would sync
 * crevette hides
 * pitti pushes button
<crevette> and I'd blame filippo :)
<pitti> it's all in bzr, so if we ever need the change, we just reapply it
<seb128> pitti: I commented on desktop-karmic-bug-workflow
<seb128> I'm not sure about the "needs info" button
<seb128> ie should we really triage those bugs or just flag those as "need to get extra informations to be useful"
<pitti> seb128: I think those details probably don't need to get firmly fixed in the spec anyway
<seb128> ok
<pitti> this power-triager-tool will be an evolving project anyway
<seb128> otherwise the spec looks alright to me
<pitti> seb128: thanks for review
<seb128> you're welcome
<pitti> it's a bit unfortunate that it mixes workflow with writing a new tool
<seb128> right
<pitti> but *shrug*, I won't fuss about the tool, as long as it does what you need :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> didrocks: can you please check your vino merge? or whether we can sync?
<seb128> pitti: there is a sponsoring request from Laney for that I think
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> seb128: hm, it doesn't appear on https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html; other merges do
<pitti> but maybe that needs to be done manually
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> rickspencer3: thanks for the burndown fixes, looks better now (http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png)
<rickspencer3> hi pitti, hi seb128
<kenvandine> pitti, we should drop the recommends for elepathy-butterfly imho
<pitti> kenvandine: that works for me, too
<kenvandine> so we need the farsight stuff
<kenvandine> pitti, i can't do it until the weekend though... actually taking vacation today/tomorrow :)
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, enjoy
<kenvandine> pitti, wanted to fill you in on u1 though
<davmor2> Guys query on empathy are you going to include the irc package for it or not as it isn't in by default currently?
<pitti> kenvandine: doing an upload to drop butterfly then
<kenvandine> ubuntuone-client and ubuntuone-storage-protocol is in REVU now
<pitti> nice
<Zdra> pitti: why dropping butterfly?
<pitti> kenvandine: ^
<kenvandine> Zdra, it brings in more deps, and haze seems to satisfy the need for now
<Zdra> pitti: kenvandine: not that butterfly in karmic is unusable, latest release fix most issues
<kenvandine> Zdra, it didn't work last time i tried it :)
<kenvandine> well... haze worked better
<jcastro> they just had a release yesterday I think
<jcastro> or the day before
<kenvandine> Zdra, file a bug if you want us to reconsider that, and i will look at it after my vacation :)
<kenvandine> Zdra, just assign it to me
 * kenvandine needs to run though... later folks!
<Zdra> kenvandine: That's fine for me
<seb128> well we don't need a strong decision on it now
<seb128> we can play with both and see how they work
<pitti> davmor2: telepathy-idle shold be there by default
<Zdra> kenvandine: in fact I'm looking for comparaison between haze-msn and butterfly
<Laney> can versions.html be made to update more often?
<Zdra> kenvandine: In empathy we made the choice to privilege butterfly but we could reconsider
<seb128> Laney: it's not made to update at all right now
<davmor2> pitti: I'm not seeing irc as an account option and idle is only suggested and not recommended
<Laney> seb128: Oh, s/more often// then :)
<seb128> Laney: still fixing some issues before having it running regularly
<Laney> got it
<davmor2> unless that has changed
<davmor2> pitti: that's from upgrade I'm about to check a cd now
<pitti> davmor2: probably needs seeding
<didrocks> pitti: I was thinking someone declared to work on it yesterday, if there is nobody, ok, I can check
<seb128> mpt: grrr
<pitti> WARNING: desktop-karmic-network-ui has no work items
<pitti> WARNING: desktop-karmic-bluetooth-stack has no work items
<pitti> WARNING: desktop-karmic-browsers has no work items
<pitti> WARNING: desktop-karmic-firefox-3.5 has no work items
<pitti> WARNING: desktop-karmic-content-library has no work items
<mpt> WARNING: seb128 is angry
<seb128> mpt: I don't mark bugs duplicates because launchpad suck at searching bugs and I don't want to spend half of my days looking for useless numbers
<seb128> mpt: and I don't want the bug list to be noisy with things I know to be duplicates either
<pitti> asac, kenvandine ^
<pitti> (just the daily nag)
<mpt> seb128, I know what you mean, I was in the same position with bugs about Launchpad itself for years. But every so often I'd realize that whoops, this bug actually *hadn't* been reported before.
<Laney> didrocks: I did it, don't worry
<Laney> (vino)
<seb128> mpt: well the choise is between having a useless list full of known duplicates or a few bugs wrongly closed
<seb128> mpt: we have a number of bugs way higher that what we can work on anyway, so better to try to keep the buglist under control
<didrocks> Laney: ok, that's what I was thinking :) did you keep the NM support in ubuntu?
<didrocks> (this is the main diff between the debian version and ours)
<Laney> didrocks: yes, but joss just added it
<Laney> so next time: sync
<didrocks> great ;)
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> pitti: I updated burndown.py yesterday
<rickspencer3> if you want to try it out
<pitti> rickspencer3: [15:10]     pitti| rickspencer3: thanks for the burndown fixes, looks better now (http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png)
<pitti> :)
<rickspencer3> sweet
<kenvandine> pitti, desktop-karmic-content-library was marked as informational
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, ok
<kenvandine> pitti, there are no actions from it...
<pitti> I should teach my script about that
<kenvandine> maybe your script should not warn on those
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> pitti, you saw that u1 stuff made it to REVU?
<pitti> I heard, yes
<kenvandine> ok
<rodrigo_> kenvandine: so, my blueprints look ok, so what do I need to do next?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, i think pitti should be marked as approver
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<kenvandine> then send it to review status
<kenvandine> and wait for pitti to critic it :)
 * pitti sharpens the review knife again :)
 * rodrigo_ prepares some nice wine bottles to send to pitti
<pitti> rodrigo_: fail! I don't drink wine
<pitti> beer appreciated, though :)
<rodrigo_> pitti: ok, beer then :)
 * pitti ^5s rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> pitti: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/couchdb-glib-package-for-karmic and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/evolution-couchdb-package-for-karmic , all yours :D
<pitti> rodrigo_: please set it to "review" when you are happy with the wiki spec
<rodrigo_> pitti: ah ok
<rodrigo_> pitti: done
<pedro_> Zdra, cassidy, have you guys seen something similar to bug 335986 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 335986 in empathy "Unable to open URL while using Russian locale" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/335986
<jcastro> Zdra, cassidy, also, should we be encouraging people to use what's in the telepathy in the PPA? I see some bugs reported against Jaunty that are probably dupes of stuff you guys fixed in 2.27.x.
<dobey> pitti: hey
<cassidy> jcastro: jaunty users who are interested in testing telepahy/empathy should definitely use the PPA, yeah
<dobey> pitti: btw, ubuntuone-storage-protocol and ubuntuone-client are in REVU now :)
<jcastro> ok
<cassidy> I'm maintaining to keep it as up to date as possible
<Zdra> pedro_: 2.24 is obsolete
<Zdra> pedro_: ask to retry with 2.26 or 2.27
<Zdra> pedro_: but I see no reason for it to fail, we just call gtk_show_uri()
<pedro_> Zdra: alright, will do that, thanks you
<pedro_> Zdra: may you have a look later to bug 206547 ? your last comment suggest wontfix but there's a few comments from the community on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 206547 in empathy "Add option to open messages automatically" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206547
<Zdra> pedro_: there is an upstream bug about that
<asac> pitti: i think all from that list should have work items now. i also added desktop-karmic-modemmanagers ... please approve that for karmic goal as well.
<asac> pitti: (its not a real spec. more a work item attached lightweight spec - see whiteboard comment i dropped there)
<asac> pitti: did you keep mozilla...wifi spec intentionally out of the burn down script?
<asac> pitti: would be ok with me ... just wonder if the work item deadline applies for that one too ;)
<seb128> versions is automatically in a cron job now
<seb128> +updated
<Laney> hoorah
<pitti> seb128: yay
<pitti> asac: not intentionally, it just doesn't match the desktop-karmic-* pattern, thus the script doesn't see it
 * pitti fixes
<asac> pitti: hmm. ok. i wouldnt mind ;)
<asac> but let me add a few items there too
<pitti> asac: modemmanagers ack'ed for karmic
<asac> pitti: thanks!
<asac> ok items added to wifi scanning too. i think i am done for whatever i have now.
<pitti> asac: mind if I rename mozilla-karmic-firefox-wifi-scanning to desktop-karmic-firefox-wifi-scanning?
<pitti> (if you want to get WI coverage for it)
<pitti> if this should be under the desktop team umbrella, it's easier to find "our" specs that way
<asac> pitti: if you think its better. i wanted to use mozilla- prefix for mozillateam stuff in the long run. but since we didnt do that for the rest, its consistent for this cycle i guess
<pitti> okay
<asac> so go ahead
 * pitti re-runs script
<asac> the idea of having mozilla prefix would be that i could publish burn downs for the mozillateam etc.
<pitti> asac: right, that's possible as well; I can add them as patterns for desktop work items as well
<asac> but for this cycle i probably just want to do that for the firefox 3.5 transition spec and maybe we will get a addons community spec
 * pitti fixes one work item syntax
<pitti> ERROR: invalid work item format: Xulrunner - roll out PPA work to real archive
<asac> pitti: which one?
<asac> ah ...missing :?
<pitti> from which spec is that?
<pitti> asac: yes
<asac> let me do that
 * pitti should teach his script to tell the bp name
<asac> maybe it should be TODO by default ;)
<asac> pitti: ok rerun.
<pitti> asac: still says that, but that's just LP lagging, so nevermind; thanks for fixing
<pitti> yay, no WARNINGs left
<pitti> http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png
<pitti> nice spike :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^ so I think we are good to flush the DB and consider "now" as start of the data?
 * pitti adjusts the y scale
<asac> ~310 items ;) ... fun
<pitti> ok, fixed; looks better now
<asac> pitti: can we allow us to use INPROGRESS? maybe map that TODO for the chart.
<rickspencer3> 250+ work items
<rickspencer3> omg
<rickspencer3> pitti: that's fine with me
<rickspencer3> as long as INPROGRESS = TODO for the chart
<rickspencer3> what we might want to do is flag INPROGRESS items that are in progress for say, more than 2 days
<rickspencer3> (similar to block-o-matic
<rickspencer3> )
<asac> 2 days? maybe 7 days? ;)
<pitti> asac, rickspencer3: committed
<rickspencer3> pitti: I set the y-scale to be 20% greater than the tallest bar
<asac> great. so at some point i now need something to grep for INPROGRESS items associated with me. but not that importnat to get started
<rickspencer3> perhaps I should tweak that to 10%?
<asac> will we publish a raw csv somewhere?
<pitti> rickspencer3: I meant --height
<rickspencer3> oh
<pitti> rickspencer3: it looked very condensed and the scale numbers weren't readable
<pitti> I used --height=600 now
<rickspencer3> looks good
<asac> for me the chart looks good now
<pitti> ok, reload
<pitti> just updated it with flushed DB
<rickspencer3> yeah for arguments
<asac> doesnt fit on my x61s browser screen though ... but i guess i can live with that ;)
<rickspencer3> ok, IT'S ON!
<pitti> Let the race begin! :-)
<rickspencer3> asac, can't you do "View Image"?
<asac> rickspencer3: why does the trend line start with the red one?
<rickspencer3> asac: because I don't give credit for things that are done before
<asac> rickspencer3: i can ... but if i just open it in my browser window it doesnt fit at 100%
<asac> rickspencer3: ok
<rickspencer3> that would start us under the trend line, give us false confidence
<pitti> asac, rickspencer3: current picture is without --height
<pitti> rickspencer3: can we fix the axis numbers to have steps of 10?
<asac> too bad ... no ramp up bonus ;)
<pitti> (i. e. reload again)
<asac> pitti: now the numbers are really tight again
<asac> even overlapping in some cases
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes
<rickspencer3> in fact, it's supposed to, I switched the intervals for the x/y axis
<rickspencer3> x is supposed to be 7, y is supposed to be 10
<rickspencer3> I'll fix it, and give you cl arguments while I'm at it
<rickspencer3> (have to run off to my son
<pitti> n/p
<rickspencer3> s little 8th grade graduation ceremony, but in 90 mins.)
<asac> did you commit both parts (e.g. parser + graph plotter) to some branch yet?
<pitti> asac: plotter is bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Erick-rickspencer3/%2Bjunk/py-burndown-chart/
<pitti> asac: workitems.py is in http://www.piware.de/bzr/bin/
<pitti> I should eventually move that to somewhere else
<asac> great thanks.
<pitti> I have it at --height=500 now, looks okay
<asac> pitti: we already have MOIN work items too? nice.
<pitti> asac: yes, special favour to Riddell :)
<asac> pitti: i wanted that too. thought it was cut ;)
<asac> pitti: not for our items, but i might want to reuse those scripts for something else
<asac> pitti: which wiki pages are you looking at? those linked from blueprints (sorry, i could read code)
<pitti> asac: it's not hardcoded
<pitti> 03 3 * * * bzr update $HOME/bin; $HOME/bin/workitems.py -d data/desktop-workitems.db -r karmic -p 'desktop-karmic-' -m 'https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo/Karmic?action=raw'; $HOME/bin/workitems.py -d data/desktop-workitems.db --csv --to 2009-10-01 | python ubuntu/py-burndown-chart/burndown.py --output=www/www/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png --height=500 --title='Desktop Team Karmic Burndown'
<pitti>  -
<asac> ok so you maintain that outside?
<pitti> is the entire cronjob
<asac> ah. i see
<asac> thanks
<pitti> asac: the -m is the wiki
<asac> yeah
<pitti> I want it to be reusable for other teams
<pitti> thus --moin and --pattern and --release, etc.
 * pitti plays spec approval whack-a-rat again
<asac> pitti: oh seems i added the work items to summary for modemmanagers spec ... moved to whiteboard now
<pitti> bryce: what's the status of bug 377090? is this waiting for/fixed by linux 2.6.31?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 377090 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i945gm] [RFC Karmic] DRI2 swapbuffers" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/377090
<pitti> Riddell: do you know the status of bug 339313?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339313 in ubuntu-release-notes "Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339313
<Riddell> pitti: the updated network manager plasmoid doesn't seem to solve all the problems for everyone, although it does solve it for some people, so I'm not sure what to do
<Riddell> pitti: it's a big change for an SRU so it seems improper to put it in while it's not working for everyone.   on the other hand it's the only option
<pitti> Riddell: no, I mean for karmic
<pitti> Riddell: but for jaunty, if the current one doesn't work at all, there's not much chance for regression
 * pitti -> off for today, I meet with a prospective new DD for keysigning
 * seb128 is away too and on holiday tomorrow so see you maybe then or monday otherwise
<seb128> I will probably be reading emails during the day but maybe not on IRC
<bryce> pitti: I suspect 377090 will need stuff that's in 2.6.31.
<bryce> pitti: since I think the feature will be available in released code for karmic, I'm not in a big hurry to pull branches of things, but it might be nice to put it in the xorg-edgers ppa; I might do that if I run out of other high priorities.
<rickspencer3> pitti: fyi: I fixed up burndown.py
<pmatulis> i want to change the default Panel settings, is http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/806-6878/6jfpqt2t6?a=view still relevant? particularly the heading 'To Set Preferences for Individual Panels and Panel Objects'
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-19
<Laney> python-gdl is uninstallabla
<Laney> e*
<chrisccoulson> its quiet in here this evening
 * robert_ancell watches the tumbleweed float past
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i should probably get some sleep really. i always wake up late for work else
 * TheMuso hopes that his local power grid doesn't go down again like it has three times already this morning.
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso - that's not good. why is that happening?
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Because our power grid around here is somewhat flaky, and doesn't have backup power routing.
<TheMuso> It doesn't take much for a storm to bring several towns who are on the one grid setup down for 3 hours or more at a time, and similar to this morning, it can simply go down for a minute or so at a time, and come back, or go down for 3 hours plus.
<chrisccoulson> i cant remember the last time that happened here. i remember losing power lots when i was growing up, but it rarely seems to happen here now.
<TheMuso> Every mini power outage that I experienced this morning saw me hoping the power wan't going to be out for more than five minutes or so./
<TheMuso> Things *seem* to be ok now, but you never know with a piece of garbage power grid like whats in this local area.
 * TheMuso can't wait to return to Sydney proper, although power grid issues have been occurring their lately as well. :S
<chrisccoulson> when are you returning to sydney?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: sounds like you like to live on the edge there
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Not by choice.
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Hopefully later this year, I hope to buy an appartment.
 * ajmitch can't recall the last time there were power problems here
<chrisccoulson> nice(H). i keep getting sent lots of information about career opportunities in australia
<chrisccoulson> its very tempting
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: hi! i see you worked on the desktop-versions-script. I changed it to use python-launchpadlib to get the list of bugs and their respective assignee. code at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/versions . should I file a merge request?
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein: It's since been worked on by didrocks who added launchpadlib support, have you checked out the latest version?
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: oh, seems he pushed his change after i checked out. will look at his code.
<Ampelbein> didrocks: hi. regarding your integration of python-launchpadlib in the desktop-versions script: why do you use regex-matching instead of querying the object directly?
<bryce> rickspencer3-afk, I filed bug #389269 about that upstream bug importance issue I mentioned the other day
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389269 in launchpad "Doesn't show importance of watches on remote bugzilla bugs from freedesktop.org" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389269
<bryce> rickspencer3-afk, it'd be sweet if you could bump the priority on that
<rickspencer3-afk> bryce: ok
<rickspencer3-afk> let me talk to Kiko
<rickspencer3-afk> I'm wondering if it's supported but requires freedesktop.org to use this launchpad pluggin, which would require them to upgrade their bugzilla
<rickspencer3-afk> in which case, I was really hoping to meet up with someone at Guadec from freedesktop, because I have not tracked down the admins to talk to about this
<rickspencer3-afk> (emails not answered)
<rickspencer3-afk> thanks!
 * bryce nods
<bryce> I would think they'd be able to snarf the importance the same way they're snarfing status, but who knows
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: hi again. I've made some changes to the py-lp-lib code introduced by didrocks, can you review and possibly apply them? available at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amoog/+junk/ubuntu-desktop-versions
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, ok, will look
<rickspencer3-afk> robert_ancell: so, if you click on a widget in glade, and then right click inside the inspector treeview, you can choose "edit at top level", in which case it produces a valid UI file that you can use to create a custom widget!
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3-afk, cool!
<rickspencer3-afk> then you can slurp that widget into a class that derives from frame
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, you have tabs! evil ;)
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: so no tabs? whitespaces all along? and who's gonna buy me a new space-key? ;-)
<robert_ancell> haha
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, I didn't say you had to press space, just i done want to see 0x09 in your binary! :)
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: ok then.
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, looks good, the less regexp in the world the better. I've committed with whitespace changes
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: thanks. i'm trying to find out a way to search the bug-subscriptions but no luck yet. Best I can come up with is to iterate through bug_subscription[] and string-compare. but that's much slower than the current way.
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein: There is a feature that I want if you're keen to implement it:  I want it to be able to track the popular universe desktop packages and have a toggle to enable/disable these (using javascript or similar). That way this tool can be useful to the community
 * TheMuso sighs. All code should be tabbed in, and not white spaced, enough said.
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: i'm unsure if i understand correctly. the generated page should have this toggle? wouldn't it be easier to generate 3 versions of the html? 1) standard packages 2) extra packages 3) all packages
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, we could generate 3, but it would be cooler if it could be toggled without reloading :)
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: i know you would say that.
<Ampelbein> *knew
<robert_ancell> Ubuntu has to be Web 2.0 compliant!
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: i can try to do this. but not today, it's 03:12AM and i'm too tired... need my 3 hours sleep per day ;-)
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, !! I thought you were in an Eastern timezone!
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: nah, germany. CEST.
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, I'm in Sydney
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: you could the internetz in down under? way cool! *eg*
<Ampelbein> *could have
<Ampelbein> arghs. *can have. too tired, as i said.
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, still awake?  Do you know how to get the importance of a bug from lplib?
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: short version: you can't. long version: you have to take the importance from the bug_task
<Ampelbein> robert_ancell: got my messages? had a disconnect.
<robert_ancell> Ampelbein, got it, thanks!  I just modified versions so it now uses the correct bug icon
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, how well do you know gstreamer?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Not that well.
<robert_ancell> What I'm trying to work out is should a gst input have a mute?  I think it is obsolete due to the recording toggle
<TheMuso> No idea.
<TheMuso> The only thing I know about gstreamer is that it allows pipelines to be constructed using various plugins as inputs/outputs.
<dobey> robert_ancell: rather it seems odd to me that i have to click a button to tell the system i might want to record from my microphone
<dobey> not that clicking the button seems to particularly help, or do anything, or actually stay set to recording
<dobey> mute for inputs should mean "don't record from here"
<robert_ancell> dobey, I think that mute is for output only and the record toggle is the equivalent for inputs.  You should only need both for a bi-directional track
<dobey> robert_ancell: are you pondering UI, or the implementation?
<robert_ancell> dobey, fixing bug #578174, the volume control is doing what is thinks gstreamer is telling it to do but it is wrong
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 578174 could not be found
<robert_ancell> bug 299642
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299642 in gnome-media "Microphone Capture ALWAYS muted" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299642
<dobey> ah ok
<dobey> robert_ancell: i think part of the problem might be a bug in whatever handles the register change for when external headphones/mic are plugged in to the 3.5 mm jack
<dobey> on both my fujitsu laptops, plugging in headphones does not mute the internal speaker
<robert_ancell> dobey: yes, it appears there are a number of issues here - audio is very hard for users to diagnose
<dobey> and on my older one, i can seem to use skype if i plug in an external mic, but i can't get the internal mic to work
<dobey> i don't even want to try to describe some of the issues on my newer laptop
<dobey> i'm going to chalk it up to "poulsbo makes stuff break" at the moment
<TheMuso> dobey: That jack sense stuff is at the ALSA driver layer, i.e alsa doesn't know the correct hda verbs.
<dobey> TheMuso: i don't care where it is. i just want it to work. the UI suggest it works. however, it does not. :)
<TheMuso> dobey: Yes, I know.
<bryce> heya rick
<dobey> anyway, so very tired
<dobey> must sleep
<dobey> later
<robert_ancell> bryce: Is rick avoiding you?
<bryce> robert_ancell, looks like!
 * TheMuso notes that hda hardware + just want it to work do not go hand in hand very well, especially for new hardware.
 * TheMuso goes to dig up his USB sound card.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, why are we not using the new gnome-volume-control yet?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: We need to do the switcheroo.
<TheMuso> Not hard to do, I need to work with pitti/another archive admin to do that.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, switcheroo?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Switch the current volume applet around with the pulse applet. Involves uploading a new panel schema with the volume applet removed, and loading the pulse applet on startup.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, is this scheduled for Karmic?  It would be nice to align with upstream
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: yes scheduled for karmic, part of the big audio integration drive.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, ah, cool
<robert_ancell> bryce, is it ok to push compiz reports with driver problems to xorg?  e.g. bug 340673.  I think you have the process to filter them better than I can do manually
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340673 in compiz "ATi Radeon 9600 Pro" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340673
<Amaranth> bryce, If we can get the patches that fixed https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20704 into xorg and mesa I can do the compiz patch that goes with it
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 20704 in Server/general "memory leak: Keep resizing glxgears window with compiz will make X hang" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<robert_ancell> LOL, the one hundred paper cuts project has 385 bugs and counting...
<Amaranth> robert_ancell, Yeah, I think I closed about 20 of them
<Amaranth> robert_ancell, too much bug mail
<robert_ancell> yes, everyone has a pet bug they want to attach
<robert_ancell> see you all next week
<didrocks> Ampelbein: Thanks for the patch ;) If you have a good launchpadlib documentation, I can take it, because https://launchpad.net/+apidoc seems a little bit oudated (We can infer that A.<something>_link has a A.<something> corresponding object?)
<didrocks> morning everyone o/
<MacSlow> Greetings everyone!
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> hello didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: there are some changes in versions.py script, if you want to try them :)
<seb128> lot of changes
<seb128> did you duplicate work for the launchpadlib changes?
<seb128> you apparently did some of those changes and robert_ancell applied the ones from Ampelbein later
<seb128> ok, datacenter version updated, the next run in 15 minutes will use the current version
<didrocks> seb128: no, I made them before Ampelbein and then, he changed my regexp to object handler
<didrocks> seb128: did you create a credential and upload it to the datacenter?
<seb128> didrocks: to be honest he did that before you, only he emailed me about the change and I forwarded to robert_ancell the email
<didrocks> seb128: oh :/
<seb128> didrocks: no I didn't, is that required?
<seb128> trying locally
<didrocks> seb128: yes, first time you run the script, you create a credential, and then use it. launchpadlib don't allow anonymous access
<seb128> didrocks: where is the token stored?
<didrocks> seb128: in lpbinding, the file is called ubuntu-desktop-cred
<seb128> doh
<seb128> ERROR: it seems that python-launchpadlib is not installed
<seb128> the datacenter machines are no fun for that
<didrocks> :/
<didrocks> hopefully, I tried to import launchpadlib in a try/except statement :)
<didrocks> well, can make a request ?
<didrocks> or they never change the setup of datacenter machines?
<huats> morning everyone
<huats> hello seb128 and didrocks
<didrocks> salut huats
<mvo> dapper ftw
<seb128> mvo: indeed
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> ok, I did roll back to a version not using launchpadlib for now
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> bryce: thanks for the headsup
<didrocks> hello pitti
<seb128> so the cron job is running
<seb128> I'm official taking a swap day today so I don't plan to spend much time on that
<pitti> seb128: enjoy!
<seb128> the previous version is working and will do the job for now
 * pitti starting late today, was plucking strawberries this morning
<pitti> mmmm
<seb128> I guess we might have to get a launchpadlib copy or something
<seb128> pitti: nice ;-)
<pitti> meh, empathy requires weird stuff from universe
<pitti> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<pitti>   libgstfarsight0.10-0: Depends: libnice0 (>= 0.0.6) but it is not installable
<pitti>                         Depends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (>= 0.10.11) but it is not installable
<pitti>                         Depends: gstreamer0.10-nice but it is not installable
<pitti> this doesn't seem like something that's easy to resolve
<pitti> and thus breaks CD builds
<didrocks> seb128: ok. I can maybe add some checks to fallback in this mode if launchpadlib is not setup (but we can't have sponsor list as this is a DOM object loaded after the page is retrieved with urlopen())
<pitti> kenvandine: ^
<seb128> didrocks: should be easy to install launchpadlib to a local path if there is no extra depends no?
<seb128> or use parsing in case where it's not available should do too
<didrocks> seb128: https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib#Installation
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: we use a local launchpadlib installation in the apport retracers
<didrocks> it's just bzr branch lp:launchpadlib if wadllib is installed
<pitti> ubuntu-archive@ronne:~$ ls launchpadlib/
<pitti> httplib2  launchpadlib  lazr.uri  oauth  simplejson  wadllib
<pitti> you need those
<seb128> doh
<seb128> seems complicated
<seb128> we should maybe just do screen parsing for that
<pitti> didrocks: hang on
<didrocks> seb128: but screen parsing doesn't allow to get subscribed list and so, your can't retrieve sponsor team if subsscribed. Good reason for slackering on sponsoring, yes :p
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: you can take the shell snippet from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/karmic/apport/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/local/setup-apport-retracer#L77 to set up launchpadlib locally
<didrocks> (seb128: that's the reason why I decided to implement launchpadlib on it)
<pitti> eww, rookery is still dapper; that's going to be hard
<didrocks> pitti: seems great ;) And then, we just add to sys.path $HOME/launchpadlib in version.py
<pitti> didrocks: PYTHONPATH=$HOME/launchpadlib yourscript...
<didrocks> pitti: better than adding it to the script with os.syspath(), indeed :)
<didrocks> seb128: motivated, even on Friday? ;)
<seb128> didrocks: as said today is a swap day for me not a work day ;-)
<seb128> I'm fine applying updates though
 * mvo pushes seb128 gently away from work
<didrocks> seb128: well. I will work on it this week-end (no ssh from my company and bzr without ssh + lp is hard to test something fixed ;))
<seb128> mvo: I'm not really working just chatting on IRC when I pass near the computer ;-)
<bryce> Amaranth, #20704 on my todo list to look at tomorrow
<seb128> mvo: but right, I should be careful to not start doing work ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: you really should take some real rest, though :-)
<seb128> didrocks: I've slept enough and I don't plan to be near the computer for the whole day don't worry
<didrocks> :-)
<mvo> seb128: :)
<seb128> it's just early in the morning and I'm getting coffee, checking news, etc
<mvo> tea!
<mvo> scnr
<didrocks> mvo: tea addicts can't win, "Coffee has a majority market share" ;)
<mvo> haha
<mvo> true
<huats> mvo: don't worry another tea addict will rejoign the team (me:))
 * hyperair likes both tea and coffee
<chrisccoulson> i've just ran out of coffee at work :(
<chrisccoulson> and i'm in a meeting until 1pm - it's times like that when coffee is required
<hyperair> have someone poke you every 5 minutes =p
<chrisccoulson> i would still not wake up ;)
<crevette> a slap would do the job?
<chrisccoulson> i'm asleep pretty much as soon as the caffeine wears off
<chrisccoulson> lol
<lool> Hmm I'm trying to debug the yelp crash, but no luck with dbgsym and neither with rebuilding yelp and rarian with noopt nostrip
<lool> The backtraces lack debug symbols; albeit I can break on static functions
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: sounds like you need to lay off the caffeine for a while =p
<hyperair> lool: how about dbg symbols for every library yelp has?
<lool> You think that'd help?
<lool> I don't see any *sos outside libc in the stack trace currently
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> how very strange
<lool> ah valgrind gives me line numbers
<lool> Cool, it's exactly the place I suspected when reading the source, but couldn't break on it
<lool> wee, fixed
<lool> hmpf where's the upstream VCS for rarian?
<crevette> freedesktop?
<lool> Yeah, but didn't find the git
<lool> I think it's still using SVN
<Ampelbein> didrocks: hi. I don't have another api-documentation but do <object>.lp_attributes and lp_entries on the object to get it's entities. The apidoc is ... strange.
<Ampelbein> didrocks: we can simplify the script later when the bug I mentioned in the script gets fixed. (bug #340935) we can then use source = bugtask.target.name
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340935 in wadllib "Resources should be instantiated using their actual type, not the WADL specified one" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340935
<didrocks> Ampelbein: yes, I saw that. I will have a look, thanks :)
<rodrigo_> pitti: who reviews the submissions to REVU?
<pitti> rodrigo_: any MOTU can, and some will; we can also do it in the desktop team itself (seb128, asac, me) when getting poked appropriately :)
<rodrigo_> pitti: it's my first time, so just want to make sure I did it ok before submitting other stuff, so can you please review, when possible, my json-glib-0.7.2 submission?
<pitti> rodrigo_: the first two warnings on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/json-glib are real
<pitti> but I'll review it and comment
<rodrigo_> ugh, yeah, submitted it for jaunty
 * rodrigo_ fixes
<pitti> rodrigo_: wait with a new upload, there are more things to address
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> I'll fix it locally
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, hang on, the package is in Debian already
<pitti> rodrigo_: we can just sync this
<rodrigo_> ah, is it? 0.7.2?
<pitti> 0.6.2
<rodrigo_> I need 0.7.2
<pitti> but it's easier to sync, and then you supply a package update as a bug report
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<pitti> since if it's in debian, we want to avoid a large delta, whereas when it's a new package, we want to package it nicely
<pitti> revu updated
<pitti> rodrigo_: if a package is in Debian, don't use revu please
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: or, for that matter, has already been synced to karmic
<pitti> json-glib |    0.6.2-3 | karmic/universe | source
<rodrigo_> so what do I need to do for a version upgrade?
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<tkamppeter> I have a HAL problem:
<tkamppeter> In Karmic one can access the extra functions of HPLIP-driven MF devices only as root.
<tkamppeter> I have already adapted /usr/share/hal/fdi/preprobe/10osvendor/20-hplip-devices.fdi by replacing all occurences of "usb" with "usb_device", to match what is in the "lshal" output.
<tkamppeter> Now they all get "info.capabilities = scanner".
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, can you please open a bug against udev about this? We don't use hal for device permissions any more in karmic
<pitti> tkamppeter: please plug in printer and do "ubuntu-bug udev", to get the necessary debugging informatino
<tkamppeter> pitti, this means that info.capabilities = scanner in lshal is worthless? Obsolete?
<pitti> tkamppeter: it's still useful for apps which use hal, but it's not used any more to control /dev permissions
<rodrigo_> pitti: I file the bug to ubuntu project in LP?
<pitti> rodrigo_: against the json-glib package, yes; with a debdif of current version against your update
<tkamppeter> So /usr/share/hal/fdi/preprobe/10osvendor/20-hplip-devices.fdi should not be removed as obsolete?
<pitti> rodrigo_: with | filterdiff -x '*/debian/*' preferably, to filter out the upstream changes
<rodrigo_> pitti: ok
<rodrigo_> pitti: ah, ok, I was wondering if the huge diff I got was ok :)
<pitti> tkamppeter: not yet; hal will still stay around as long as some applications aren't ported yet
<pitti> rodrigo_: we are just interested in the debian/ changes
<tkamppeter> pitti, does it mean that scanning as user is currently not possible in Karmic?
<pitti> tkamppeter: it should be possible
<pitti> /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules
<rodrigo_> pitti: debdiff json-glib_0.6.2-3.dsc json-glib_0.7.2.dsc | filterdiff -x '*/debian/*' ?
<rodrigo_> pitti: that gives me the same huge diff
<pitti> tkamppeter: for scanners supported by libsane it will work through this file
<pitti> rodrigo_: sorry, '-i', not '-x'
<rodrigo_> pitti: ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: -i -> include, -x -> exclude
<rodrigo_> right :)
<rodrigo_> pitti: hmm, that only includes debian/changelog changes
<pitti> Riddell: if you didn't change anything else in the packaging, that sounds about right
<pitti> sorry, rodrigo_
<pitti> asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-modemmanagers isn't linked to a spec?
<pitti> asac: is that an accident, or is the summary meant to be the entire thing?
<pitti> asac: ah, whiteboard confirms that, nevermind
<tkamppeter> pitti, /lib/udev/rules.d/40-libsane.rules only turns off USB autosuspend
<tkamppeter> Anyone here has a scanner which is not an HP MF device?
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, all the ENV{libsane_matched}="yes" rules mark scanners with an "I am a scanner" tag
<rodrigo_> pitti: isn't the diff.gz file enough for attaching to the bug?
<pitti> tkamppeter: o/ (Canon LiDE 30)
<pitti> tkamppeter: and /lib/udev/rules.d/70-acl.rules has a rule to manage ACLs for all "libsane_matched" devices
<tkamppeter> pitti, does this not only set the variable libsane_matched to yes for this script?
<pitti> rodrigo_: would be as well, but debdiffs are easier to review for a sponsor
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, and the followup rule (70-acl.rules) checks this variable
<pitti> ENV{libsane_matched}=="yes", ENV{ACL_MANAGE}="1"
<rodrigo_> pitti: so do I attach the huge diff then? (without the filterdiff)
<tkamppeter> pitti, OK. with this I should have the info to add/modify the UDEV rules which come with the HPLIP package.
<pitti> rodrigo_: no, with the filterdiff, please
<rodrigo_> pitti: but as I said, filtering it only includes the debian/ changes
<pitti> tkamppeter: is that a large list of vendor/product IDs, or are there more general properties one could check?
<pitti> rodrigo_: right, that's all we need (well, that, and the URL to the new upstream orig.tar.gz)
<tkamppeter> pitti, I will see how HP's already existing rules look like.
<rodrigo_> pitti: ah, I include the url in the changelog entry?
<pitti> rodrigo_: no, not in the changelog, just to the bug report
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: that is, unless you made inline change to the upstream source (we don't do that, we use debian/patches/foo.patch to do changes, it's easier to maintain)
<rodrigo_> pitti: no, I didn't
<rodrigo_> pitti: so if I need to add patches, debian/patches then?
<rodrigo_> include the patches in debian/patches, I mean
<pitti> tkamppeter: ideally, hplip's rules would mark these devices with ENV{hplip_scanner}="1" or perhaps ENV{ID_HPLIP}="1" and then we change 70-acl.rules to manage permissions for them
<tkamppeter> pitti, there is /lib/udev/rules.d/40-hplip.rules. I only need to add ENV{libsane_matched}="yes" to each entry.
<pitti> rodrigo_: right, and then filterdiff -i '*/debian/*' will include them
<rodrigo_> pitti: ok, cool, I think I'm set now :)
<pitti> tkamppeter: please don't use libsane, since these aren't handled by libsane (I assume?)
<pitti> tkamppeter: I can easily add a rule ENV{ID_HPLIP}=="1", ENV{ACL_MANAGE}="1" to udev (I'm upstream committer)
<pitti> tkamppeter: it's better to keep the knowledge which device is which type
<pitti> tkamppeter: do you think you can get hplip upstream to have these modified udev rules?
<pitti> so that it'll work OOTB everywhere?
<tkamppeter> Scanning is handled by libsane, but with the HPLIP driver hpaio, but we marked all devices being a scanner as the changed permissions open up all extra functions for normal users.
<pitti> tkamppeter: you can show them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy for some references
<pitti> aah
<pitti> tkamppeter: hplip ships a sane backend then?
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes.
<pitti> tkamppeter: (btw, please feel free to add hplip to the Halsectomy page)
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok, then you are right, and they should just get ENV{libsane_matched}=="yes"
<pitti> tkamppeter: sorry, I wasn't aware of that structure
<tkamppeter> pitti, please add ENV{ID_HPLIP}=="1", ENV{ACL_MANAGE}="1", as we do it also for devices which have no scanner, for example to check their ink levels.
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm, we don't make printers accessible to users right now
<pitti> shouldn't they be just in "lp" and accessible to cups?
<rodrigo_> pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/json-glib/+bug/389461
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389461 in json-glib "Need upgrade of json-glib for couchdb-glib/evolution-couchdb" [Undecided,New]
<rodrigo_> pitti: thanks for your help, hope to not have to ask many more questions anymore :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: you're welcome, and please do
<pitti> rodrigo_: I'd rather you ask questions than to waste hours trying to figure out processes
<rodrigo_> yeah, right
<pitti> there's lots of documentation we can refer you to, but it's not always obvious where it is
<rodrigo_> yeah, it's a bit hard to find docs (or hard for me :) )
<rodrigo_> pitti: so for the new packages I'm working on, dput, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: since this will happen more often, can you please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ?
<rodrigo_> yeah, sure
<pitti> rodrigo_: "dput"?
<rodrigo_> pitti: I mean, for new packages, I use the dput revu thing, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: right, if they aren't in ubuntu or debian yet
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: use "rmadison <packagename>" to check
<pitti> this will work independently of which distro release you are using
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: rmadison is in the "devscripts" package
<rodrigo_> yeah, have it installed already
<pitti> rodrigo_: try "rmadison json-glib"
<rodrigo_> ok
<tkamppeter> pitti, for ink-level checks and maintenance with HP's tools the printer must be user-accessible.
<pitti> tkamppeter: okay
<pitti> tkamppeter: they have been in jaunty with hal?
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes. All devices were marked as scanners by HAL, so they got opened for the user logged in to the desktop.
<kwwii> erm, is there a "downloads" folder in karmic on a default install?
<kwwii> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/388570 seems to say there is
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 388570 in hundredpapercuts "nautilus doesn't assign custom icon to "Downloads" folder" [Undecided,Triaged]
<pitti> $ grep DOWNLOAD .config/user-dirs.dirs
<pitti> XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/download"
<pitti> kwwii: there should be ^
<pitti> it's "Downloads" by default, though, I believe
<pitti> (I changed it)
<chrisccoulson> i thought XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR was actually ~/Desktop by default?
<chrisccoulson> (sorry if I've missed some conversation)
<kwwii> yeah, until now we have just put them on the desktop
<chrisccoulson> there may be a residual ~/Downloads folder on some installs due to a previous transmission bug which created that folder on first run rather than using XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR
<chrisccoulson> i wasn't aware that the download folder changed though
<kwwii> on my jaunty install it is XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/Desktop"
<chrisccoulson> same here
<kwwii> but I haven't installed karmic yet
<chrisccoulson> i don't think it changed. like i said, the ~/Downloads folder could be there due to an earlier transmission bug
<kwwii> yeah, I think you are right
<chrisccoulson> kwwii - bug 338046 has some information about that. it was something i noticed due to a separate transmission bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 338046 in transmission "transmission tries to use downloads folder but it doesnt exist" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/338046
<kwwii> chrisccoulson: sweet, thanks for that
<chrisccoulson> no problem
<tkamppeter> pitti, so you will add 'ENV{ID_HPLIP}=="1", ENV{ACL_MANAGE}="1"' to /lib/udev//rules.d/70-acl.rules?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, possible; I have ~ as my desktop
<pitti> tkamppeter: if you change the rules to set ENV{ID_HPLIP}="1", sure
<tkamppeter> pitti, I will do so.
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you do this in both Debian and Ubuntu?
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, by committing it straight to udev upstream trunk :)
<pitti> tkamppeter: done
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, when will this arrive in Ubuntu then?
<pitti> tkamppeter: in a couple of days, I expect; it's not too urgent, I think
<pitti> Keybuk: I suppose you'll do a new udev upload soon; will you merge to trunk head, or to the 143 release?
<pitti> I just did another commit to fix the keymap documentation after the recently changed install path
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, running a testy with hand-edited /lib/udev//rules.d/70-acl.rules and modified HPLIP package.
<Keybuk> pitti: need to test first
<Keybuk> been tracking a crasher bug in upstart most of the morning, but I think I've figured it out now
<pitti> Keybuk: sure, it's not urgent; just asking what you usually do (merge from head or from release tag)
<tkamppeter> pitti, it works.
<Keybuk> pitti: HEAD usually
<Keybuk> Kay likes to sneak in major bug fixes right after the release tag ;)
<pitti> Keybuk: hm, seems that lp:udev is severely behind :(
<Keybuk> yeah, just updating that now
<pitti> oh, it's a manual one?
<Keybuk> git imports don't work on Kay's tree atm
<pitti> OIC
<Keybuk> the LP people expressing an opinion about what people can and can't put in revision control again
<Keybuk> "but this can't be valid - it has broken symlinks!"
<Keybuk> "no, those are part of the test suite ;)"
<pitti> why do they care about what's inside the tree?
<Keybuk> well, yes, exactly
<Keybuk> but since when did LP manage to not dictate policy to its hosting? :p
<pitti> these should be black box imports
<Keybuk> (manual import running now btw)
<Keybuk> lp:udev up to date
<Keybuk> lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/udev/ubuntu up to date with it
<Keybuk> will just update changelog and rules and stuff
<pitti> yay
<pitti> Keybuk: please Conflicts:/Replaces: udev-extras (<= 20090618)
<pitti> Keybuk: I just updated the standard seed to not have udev-extras any more
<Keybuk> what's in udev-extras now?
<pitti> nothing
<pitti> it's an empty shell
<Keybuk> so why <= ?
<Keybuk> let's move to #udev ;)
<pitti> well, just in case kay decides to add stuff to it again
<pitti> sure
<Keybuk> I guess we need to merge in udev-extras b-d
<pitti> Keybuk: 20090618 was the day when everything was removed from udev-extras trunk
<Keybuk> The configure options have changed because another library needs to be
<Keybuk> installed in a different location. Instead of exec_prefix and udev_prefix,
<Keybuk> libdir, rootlibdir and libexecdir are used. The Details are explained in
<Keybuk> the README file.
<Keybuk> ww
<dobey> pitti: care to review ubuntuone-storage-protocol and ubuntuone-client in REVU? :)
<pitti> dobey: on my TODO list now
<pitti> dobey: won't happen today any more, though (at least not from me), I have release team meeting and some other stuff still
<pitti> but feel free to poke other people as well :)
<dobey> pitti: oh ok.
<dobey> james_w: ^^ care to review those? :)
<jcastro> dobey: he's travelling
<dobey> ah
<dobey> right
<jcastro> and ken is on vacation
<dobey> ken isn't a motu yet though is he?
<jcastro> oh no, correct
<dobey> and seb is on vacation today as well i think
<dobey> everyone i know to ping is on vacation or travelling :P
<dobey> or in europe and possibly just not around any longer
<pitti>  ok, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+specs?role=approver is once again clear
<fta> anyone to have a look at some pango crashes in gwibber?
<pitti> if you need me to review any specs today still, please speak up now
<pitti> since I'll have release team meeting in half an hour, and then I'm off
<fta> bug 389505 and bug 380618
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389505 in gwibber "gwibber crashes in pango @pango_layout_check_lines" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389505
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 380618 in gwibber "gwibber (new theming engine) pango segmentation fault @pango_layout_get_iter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/380618
<fta> jcastro, ^^ do you see that too?
<jcastro> looking
<fta> for me, it crashes several times a day, it's barely usable
<jcastro> fta: mine doesn't crash in that case
<jcastro> but it does crash several times a day
<fta> jcastro, do you mean you have a 3rd type of crash?
<fta> can you get a traceback?
<jcastro> no, but I had apport off on this machien for a while
<jcastro> next crash I should get something
<fta> ok
<pitti> ArneGoetje: can you please draft https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-translations soon?
<ArneGoetje> pitti: there is not much to draft... just file bugs and blueprints for Rosetta, everything else has already been taken care of.
<pitti> ArneGoetje: ok, please set the status to obsolete then once that happens
<ArneGoetje> pitti: ok
<pitti> Keybuk: we probably shouldn't spam #udev with packaging questions
<pitti> Keybuk: so WDYT about clean: configure
<pitti> configure:
<pitti>    autoreconf, gtk-doc, rm autom4te, etc.
<pitti> ?
<Keybuk> doesn't work
<Keybuk> you really need all that madness
<pitti> sure, but it's always the same 3 or 4 commands
<Keybuk> getting configure isn't the hard part though
<Keybuk> it's building a source pcakage
<pitti> Keybuk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/udev-extras/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/README.source has some howto for this
<pitti> it should by and large apply to udev as well
<Keybuk> pitti: that doesn't work though
<Keybuk> see above
<pitti> except that we don't have an auto-import to merge from
<Keybuk> in order to make the .diff.gz properly, you need the .orig.tar.gz
<pitti> sure
<Keybuk> if Kay has released it, that's easy
<Keybuk> just clean-tree and use my bad dpkg-buildpackage command
<pitti> Keybuk: but unlike udev-extras, we can actually download that from upstream :)
<Keybuk> when Kay hasn't, it's those 8 commands to make one
 * Keybuk tends to make a lot of git head builds ;)
<pitti> well, but for a git head build, we'd still make that relative to the latest orig.tar.gz and keep the rest of code changes as inline diffs, no?
<pitti> To me, the main blocker here is to have a trunk import
<Keybuk> no
<Keybuk> doesn't work because of the gtk-doc stuff
<pitti> the rest can be nicely done with bzr-buildpackage and some debian/rules helpers
<Keybuk> that's what I was just trying
<Keybuk> because we out-of-tree build
<Keybuk> we have to make the gtk-doc stuff first
<Keybuk> you can't use bzr-buildpackage on udev sadly
<Keybuk> it freaks out over the test/ directory
<Keybuk> (which is the same directory LP freaks out over, and bzr bd freaks out ovre)
<pitti> well, I'm in the release meeting and just have half a brain for this here, but I still fail to see the difficulty here
<pitti> ah
<Keybuk> it's always been annoying
<Keybuk> it's just more so now ;)
<Keybuk> once there's a 143 tarball, it might be easier
<Keybuk> I assume the gtk-doc stuff will work
<Keybuk> and update itself
<pitti> Riddell: so bug 334052 is actually a dupe of bug 339313 then?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334052 in plasma-widget-network-manager "Network Manager Plasmoid won't connect to "WPA Enterprise" AP's in Jaunty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334052
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339313 in ubuntu-release-notes "Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339313
<pitti> they looked different to me
<Riddell> they're probably different bugs
<pitti> right, two different upstream bugs as well
<Riddell> but it's all part of the "network manager plasmoid broken all over the place" issue
<pitti> okay, so this update doesn't actually address #339313 just yet then, but it's a step closer?
 * pitti fixes up the bugs to be in proper SRU shape
<pitti> apparently this slipped in without any SRU bug processing at all, hmm
<pitti> Riddell: feedbck on 334502 is pretty bad, though :(
<Riddell> pitti: that bug isn't relevent, wrong number?
<Riddell> oh 334052
<pitti> Riddell: bug 334052, sorry (see above)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 334052 in plasma-widget-network-manager "Network Manager Plasmoid won't connect to "WPA Enterprise" AP's in Jaunty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/334052
<Riddell> pitti: mm, it's not good, but it's not any worse
<pitti> right
<pitti> Riddell: I'm not opposed to move this to updates to get the fix for bug 330811, but we should keep it open
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 330811 in plasma-widget-network-manager "Can't connect to a hidden network" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/330811
<pitti> Riddell: so, shall I copy it over now?
<Riddell> yes, I agree
<pitti> done, bugs updated
<Riddell> super, thanks
<pitti> Riddell: is there an upstream bug for bug 339313? do they know about it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339313 in ubuntu-release-notes "Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339313
<Riddell> pitti: don't know, I'll get back to you on that
<kwah> hi all
<kwah> where gnome gets information about locale ?
<kwah> upon session start
<pitti> kwah: /etc/default/locale (that's system wide, not just gnome)
<kwah> pitti, and if particular user chooses different LANG at the GDM screen?
<kwah> it does not influence default system locale then
<kwah> what changes?
<pitti> right, that's per-user
<pitti> kwah: it just sets $LANG, I think
<kwah> but it might be stored in between of sessions, hence it should be preserved somewhere
<pitti> kwah: ah, I guess that goes into ~/.dmrc then
<pitti> but I'm not entirely sure on that
<pitti> I think it asks you ("just this session" -> $LANG, "all future sessions" -> .dmrc?)
<mclasen> .dmrc is correct
<kwah> pitti, thanks, will check it
<kwah> pitti, mclasen thanks guys
<pitti> have a good weekend everyone!
<djsiegel1> rickspencer3: can we add "Paper Cuts Round 1: http://tinyurl.com/mhs2qb" to the topic in here?
<rickspencer3> djsiegel1: sure, but I'm not an opp
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-20
<sheizuu> hi?
<sheizuu> is anyone here?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-21
<silekonn> hello all
<silekonn> i am dl'ing ubuntu for an i7.  should i select the amd64?
 * pmatulis is running karmic
<alazyworkaholic> I can't login graphically, but I still can though a terminal. Is this a place where I might find an answer?
<alazyworkaholic> quit
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-21
<rohitnikocool> how to delete older version of grub
 * ccheney just saw he has an all day long meeting tomorrow :-\
<TheMuso> ccheney: You have my sympathy.
<ccheney> hmm seems it might be pared back to be only 3 hours now, just got an updated email :)
 * ccheney hopes so, an 8.5 hr long meeting doesn't sound fun
<TheMuso> No
<baptistemm> hello
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<pitti> hey didrocks, had a nice weekend?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it was fun, even if a little bit cold :)
<didrocks> and you, pitti?
<pitti> rather quiet, but nice; did a bike tour, some shopping, and some gaming
<pitti> Friday evening was the "Long night of Science" in Dresden's universities, which was great
<pitti> I saw a demonstration of the high-voltage lab (nice flashes :) ), and went to a show debate of the Dresden Debating Union
<didrocks> sounds nice :)
<pitti> mvo: good morning! enjoyed your holidays?
<seb128> hey pitti mvo
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> how are you?
<didrocks> salut seb128, bon week-end ?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> oui, et toi?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va, tranquillement :)
<mvo> hey pitti and seb128! yes, I much enjoyed my vacation
<seb128> mvo, nice to have you back ;-)
<mvo> seb128: thanks :)
<mvo> seb128: I read throught my mail, its a *long* list of N in my mutt inbox :)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> good morning mvo, welcome back :-)
<seb128> mvo, we got a new s-c uploaded but I had to hack since make check doesn't work without error, it fails on the history log check
<mvo> hey didrocks, thanks
<mvo> seb128: aha, ok. I have a look
<mvo> seb128: thanks for sponsoring it
<seb128> mvo, yw
<mvo> seb128: do you happen to have the exact error? it appears that tests are passing for me for some reason
<seb128> mvo, let me check
<seb128> could be that it got fixed since
<seb128> [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/history.log'
<seb128> ...
<seb128> "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/debian_bundle/deb822.py", line 253, in iter_paragraphs
<seb128>     for key in parser.Section.keys()]
<seb128> KeyError: 'xxx-bogus-entry'
<seb128>  
<seb128> I had that
<seb128> let me update my checkout
<seb128> it's test_apthistory.py
<seb128> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/452831/
<mvo> seb128: oh, thanks. I think this might be caused by a bug in python-debian actually
<seb128> mvo, I'm on lucid if that makes any difference
<seb128> didrocks, new evo tarballs are there, will you do the update?
<didrocks> seb128: already began :)
<seb128> ok nice
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> you're welcome :)
<seb128> I'm still on lucid for some days
<seb128> handling other .2 updates for lucid sru
<seb128> then I can upgrade
<didrocks> no worry, I'll try to integrate the express branch as well
<seb128> you should do it in 2 uploads
<seb128> one for the update
<seb128> then one for the express backporting
<seb128> will make easier to figure what breaks if something breaks
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> will also give you some work done and uploaded rather than being stuck on backported express changes ;-)
<didrocks> sure :-)
<seb128> Sarvatt, hi, how do you track xorg-edget ppa bugs usually? ie bug #596192
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 596192 in cairo (Ubuntu) "[xorg-edgers] new libcairo2 1.9.9 fails to render correctly (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596192
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, still there?
<seb128> robert_ancell, do we really need your gobject-introspection changes to ship the everything typelib, seems the debian maintainer disagrees it should be distributed
<seb128> ie http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=550478
<ubot2> Debian bug 550478 in gobject-introspection "gobject-introspection: Please include the Everything-1.0 typelib" [Minor,Open]
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> i'm not too bad thanks pitti, although a bit sore from all the gardening at the weekend (and very sunburnt)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, did you have a good weekend?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: had a rather lazy weekend; a bicycle tour and some shopping, and enjoying the long night of science on Friday
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, a great one. Nothing too fancy but enjoying Paris for last couple of months (hopefully!)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - sounds good. i think i will plan a lazy weekend this weekend :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - you're leaving paris?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128 - how are you?
<seb128> I'm great thanks
<seb128> I had a lazy weekend but it's quite cold there
<seb128> ie around 16Â°C yesterday
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, leaving Paris in September
<didrocks> will try to buy something in Lyon
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not sure how warm it was here, but it must have been warmer than i thought it was ;)
<seb128> hehe
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - one of my friends moved to lyon recently too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how is the firefox security update going otherwise?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i got the jaunty extensions done friday evening
<chrisccoulson> so, it's not going too badly :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, is he enjoying the city?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, he seems to be
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did the hardy version go to security now?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - not yet, i'm not sure if 3.6.4 has been released still (it wasn't on friday)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me know when it does ;-)
<seb128> RAOF, hey
<seb128> RAOF, do you know how the i8xx work is going?
<didrocks> the thing that made me hurry is that they added something like that just on the wall behind my bedroom: http://www.axo-media.com/edsys/uploaded/Haute%20Savoie/ANNEMASSE/Reseau%20Prestivision%20Bleu%20Franco-Suisse/Photo-reseau-transit.gif
<didrocks> and the engine makes a lot of noise
<didrocks> even in the night :/
<RAOF> seb128: Chris Wilson did some hacking over the weekend; there's a branch on my system that builds and has the old, non-GEM EXA accel as a legacy option.
<seb128> RAOF, is that still on track for alpha2?
<RAOF> It doesn't currently _work_ as such, but that shouldn't be alarmingly hard.
<seb128> RAOF, or should be move items to alpha3?
<RAOF> It needs to be in the archive by Thursday for a2, doesn't it.
<seb128> yes
<seb128> well it's a new source for universe?
<seb128> I guess it can be later on if it's not on the CD
<seb128> ie next week
<RAOF> It's actually better and worse than a new source for universe.  It's re-adding the old code to the main driver.
<seb128> oh, I see
<seb128> seems better for users
<RAOF> So it's better in that (a) upstream is helping and (b) users get a good driver by default.
<seb128> but...
<RAOF> It's worse in that it involves touching the main driver, so it's less safe.
<seb128> right
<seb128> seems it's the way things are going and not a bad tradeoff though
<RAOF> It shouldn't be a problem by release, but there's a certain amount of code renaming necessary and it currently doesn't bring up my (GM45, not i8xx) intel card properly.
<seb128> but seems we are a bit short for alpha2 there now then and maybe workitems need to be updates for the change of stategy?
<RAOF> That's a good idea, yes :)
<seb128> ie are the items assigned to apw on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html still revelant?
<seb128> RAOF, ok, can you make sure those get updated today or tomorrow?
<RAOF> Yup.
<seb128> RAOF, just update to reflect what work will need to be done and move to alpha3 I would say
<seb128> RAOF, thanks
<RAOF> Those apw tasks are still relevant for a Lucid SRU, but I'll talk with him.  The âi855 patchâ referenced is big and scary for an SRU and doesn't _really_ fix the problem.
<pitti> mvo: synaptic currently depends: scrollkeeper; would it be okay to drop to recommends: rarian-compat? (i. e. does it still work without?)
<mvo> pitti: yes, that should be fine, I need to verify if it works now, but it should be easy to make it work if not
<pitti> mvo: ok, thanks; I'll try that
<pitti> mvo: do you want me to create a new lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/synaptic/maverick/ branch for that?
<mvo> pitti: lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/synaptic/ubuntu is fine for that
<pitti> aah
<pitti> so you only create release name branches for SRUs?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> or sometimes before the release if I have stuff that is not appropriate during a freeze
<pitti> mvo: btw, please don't merge the apt compressed index branch just yet; I still have some trouble with update-apt-xapian-index
<pitti> I'll fix those first
<mvo> pitti: ok
 * pitti wrangling with the xapian test suite
<seb128> didrocks, mvo: do you have any interest or opinion about bug #232469?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 232469 in flashplugin-nonfree (Debian) (and 4 other projects) "wget does not use network proxy in some cases (affects: 38) (dups: 7) (heat: 228)" [Unknown,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/232469
<mvo> seb128: I have a interesst in fixing another problem with flashplugin-nonfree (that is fails on 8.04 -> 10.04 upgrades sometimes)
<didrocks> seb128: I was hit by some kind of weird things when I was forced to use proxy. I think there are some proxy issues more important than that
<vish> mvo: hi.. have you had time to merge your synaptic ui changes branch into maverick?
<mvo> vish: not yet, why? the glade->gtkbuilder one?
<seb128> didrocks, mvo: well, there is a simple patch suggested there if somebody wants to review it
<mvo> vish: oh, the other one. right
<seb128> didrocks, ok...
<didrocks> seb128: not today, but I can later on
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<vish> mvo: yeah [mvo/synaptic/ubuntu-ui-changes ], it would close a couple of bugs
<mvo> vish: good point
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I can confirm the e-d-s bug and it's due to the recent sru
<didrocks> seb128: the umlaut thing?
<seb128> didrocks, yes, it's not an umlaut thing, it's a name with a "." and a space thing
<seb128> didrocks, I'm discussing with upstream
<didrocks> urgh :/
<didrocks> ok thanks seb128
<pitti> mvo: I did three fixes to http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/apt-xapian-index.git FYI; it's collab-maint, so I just committed
<pitti> one of them fixes a LP with a million dupes
<pitti> now the test suite finally succeeds \o/
<baptistemm> Hello, as friday, anyone to review lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/bluez/main and lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main? :)
<didrocks> baptistemm: maybe you can try on #ubuntu-devel? if nobody want to do it, I'll try even if I don't have a lot of knowledge on it (tomorrow morning or this evening)
<baptistemm> k
<seb128> baptistemm, the usual way is to open a bug and subscribe sponsors to it
<baptistemm> I thought it was easier to provide a branch with changes
<mvo> pitti: cool, thanks
<pitti> mvo: I just don't know whether I should upload it
<pitti> but with that I can reproduce the hang with my new apt
<didrocks> great, seems that banshee upstream will review the hal-free branch, I just had to connect the dots :)
<mvo> pitti: what hang is that?
<mvo> pitti: uploading a-x-i> best to talk to enrico, he is often around in irc
<pitti> mvo: it's a crash in FileFd apparently
<pitti> mvo: yep, will do
<mvo> thanks
<pitti> mvo: ah, I know why
<pitti> mvo: FileFd is exported in libapt-pkg-dev after all, so the stuff really breaks ABI
<pitti> and people say C++ was a sensible programming language!
<pitti> mvo: I guess I'll need to implement a hack for the lucid backporting
<mvo> pitti: ABI> pain!
<pitti> seems the abi checker doesn't pick that up :-(
<mvo> oh, that is bad
<mvo> it comapres "build-version" against "installed-version"
<mvo> but it does not get that the lucid installed-version breaks ABI?
<pitti> yes, I had it compare against lucid's
<pitti> mvo: I'll run it again to be sure, but I think yes
<mvo> I check it out later, that is a bit of a disappointment
<pitti> mvo: I'll run it here again first
<seb128> pitti, so we get an e-d-s bug which broke evolution composer when the receiving contact has a dot and space in its name in lucid-updates
<pitti> mvo: but rebuilding synaptic against my patched apt fixes the crash
<pitti> and I bet that's the same for python-apt and thus apt-xapian-index
<seb128> pitti, do you think we should drop the change and aim at getting back to the previous situation with low delay or try to fix the issue correctly, ie this bug and the one fixed in the sru
<mvo> pitti: its pretty likely that it breaks the ABI, its really fragile with c++ and from what I remember it adds some data members. but I had hoped that the checker would be able to pick it up
<pitti> mvo: I think I'll move the gz initializers from the ctor declarators (in the .h) to the .cc file
<pitti> at least in my backport
<pitti> it doesn't matter for experimental, it breaks abi anyway
<pitti> mvo: ah, now it does fail, but on something completely different: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/abi_compat_report.html
<pitti> 'The relative position of virtual method pkgDepCache::~pkgDepCache() has been changed from 6 to 5  and therefore the layout of virtual table has been changed.'
<pitti> I didn't touch that interface at all..
<pitti> it doesn't pick up the new FileFd::gz member
<mvo> pitti: thanks, I have a look now
<seb128> pitti, hello?
<seb128> pitti, sorry to bother you but it's a lucid update breaking and I would like your opinion ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: do you have your "link gnome bug numbers to corresponding launchpad one" handy somewhere?
<seb128> didrocks, ?
<seb128> didrocks, click bellow the bug table on the affect product label and enter the url?
<didrocks> seb128: the one which parses the changelog to get the launchpad bug related to gnome one
<mpt> mvo, hi, do you want to review a couple of branches fixing accessibility problems in USC's WebKit views, or should I give them to Gary or someone else?
<seb128> didrocks, oh, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bzbugs.py
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, bzbugs.py ChangeLog <number of lines to read>
<didrocks> seb128: awesome, thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, np, and better to have a firefox open
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> didrocks, it adds tabs if one is running otherwise it opens a firefox for each
 * didrocks opens firefox right now so ;)
<mvo> mpt: I can do that, I'm catching up with mail/$stuff currently anyway
<didrocks> don't want to be scared in 20+ firefox opening
<seb128> didrocks, I'm assigned you the e-d-s regression bug
<seb128> I've
<didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks, I still have to understand under which circumstance it's hapenning
<seb128> didrocks, I'm trying to get pitti to give his opinion we work on a change though
<seb128> didrocks, write "One. Bug Email <bug@localhost>
<seb128> ie one name with a point and a space
<seb128> upstream confirmed the change is buggy
<seb128> <mbarnes> seb128: yeah that patch should be reverted entirely.  contact list editor should be using e_destination_get_textrep() for user-visible strings
<seb128> <mbarnes> poorly chosen names, misleading documentation, but I think I have it straight now...
<seb128> didrocks, can you do a reverted version upload?
<didrocks> ok, understood
<seb128> ie just drop the change, go back to what we had
<didrocks> seb128: can do, still need a break and finish 2.30.2 first, will do this afternoon asap
<mvo> mpt: what branch(es)?
<seb128> didrocks, ok thanks
<didrocks> seb128: thank you for reproducing it :)
<mpt> mvo, they're linked to from bug 538404 and bug 595500
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 538404 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Install button inaccessible (affects: 2) (heat: 42)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538404
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595500 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Screenshot image inaccessible (affects: 1) (heat: 1108)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595500
<seb128> mvo, btw the history s-c entry rocks, I really like it
<seb128> mvo, it doesn't like upgrades right now it seems, is that wanted or a bug?
<mvo> seb128: please, with some simple steps to rerpdocue
<mvo> mpt: aha, thanks. it does not show up in the software-cetner code page
<mpt> odd
<mpt> mvo, you mean there's no merge proposal? The developer contacted me on Twitter instead. :-P
<mvo> mpt: heh, it also does not appear on code.launchpad.net/software-center (I monitor that page to see stuff without merge proposals)
<mvo> mpt: thanks, I check it out now
<mvo> vish: new synaptic merged and uploaded
<vish> mvo: thanks
<seb128> mvo, simple steps? upgrade with update-manager every day
<seb128> mvo, the ui lists new packages not version changes
<seb128> mvo, ie new things you install and were not installed, not upgraded of versions for installed binaries
<mvo> seb128: oh, ok. sorry, I misread the initial issue
<seb128> mvo, is it supposed to list updates? would be handy to ask user "what did you change the day the issue started"
<mvo> seb128: indeed
<seb128> mvo, I was rather curious to know if you plan to do that or if that should be working but is buggy or if that was not on your design ;-)
<mpt> mvo, have you had time to read through the software updates spec I started? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdateHandling
<mvo> mpt: yes, but that is going to be a difficult target if we want to get it done for maverick
<mvo> mpt: but the changes itself look not too hard, just "work"
<mvo> mpt: plus the morphing stuff needs to be available and have python bindings
<mvo> seb128: it is not my design, I need to check the spec (or ask mpt) if upgraded packages are supposed to show up there, but I agree that its somehting useful to have
<mpt> mvo, none of this is Maverick targeted, and it's in lots of little bits that can be done independently
<mpt> mvo, I'm just giving you a heads up, because Shane Fagan may be submitting code soon to implement some of it
<mvo> mpt: ok, cool
<seb128> mvo, ok thanks
<mpt> seb128, what's the issue? Is this on an OS upgrade, e.g. 10.04 -> Maverick?
<mpt> or on any update at all?
<seb128> mpt, no, normal upgrades
<seb128> mpt, well we get people saying "that software working after applying yesterday lucid security updates"
<seb128> mpt, would be handy to be able to tell users, "can you check in s-c what you did upgrade yesterday"
<mpt> ok
<seb128> "stopped working"
<seb128> especially if the UI has filter for installed and removed already
<seb128> should be easy to add one for "version changed"
<didrocks> seb128: do you think I should revert the change in evo 2.30.2 too?
<seb128> didrocks, no
<seb128> didrocks, I verified it's e-d-s
<seb128> I've downgraded only this one and it works
<didrocks> seb128: sure, but I'm about upgrading e-d-s 2.30.2, in maverick, hence my question :)
<mpt> seb128, makes sense
<seb128> didrocks, well it's maverick, I would backport the changes they do today when they do those
<didrocks> ok, so pushing in maverick
<seb128> mpt, ;-)
<pitti> seb128: re (sorry, was at lunch)
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> seb128: is the regression in -proposed only? or in -updates?
<seb128> pitti, updates
<pitti> seb128: if it's -proposed only, it's fine to do a followup SRU IMHO
<seb128> pitti, I asked didrocks to do an upload undoing the sru while you were are lunch
<pitti> seb128: is it realistic to fix it in a day or two?
<seb128> are -> at
<pitti> but reverting is always the safe option indeed
<pitti> fine for me
<seb128> pitti, upstream says the change is wrong and the api naming misleading, the escaping should be done in evolution
<seb128> pitti, so I think in any case we want to revert the e-d-s change and see what we do with evo to fix the original bug later
<seb128> pitti, can we speed a bit the delay to -updates if we revert the change?
<pitti> absolutely
<pitti> seb128: let it build in -proposed, quick test that it still runs, and off to -updates
<pitti> we just need to guard against misbuilds
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<seb128> right
<mpt> mvo, have you been in touch with kiwinote today? Today's the first day of his GSoC
<mvo> mpt: I haven't. but I look forward to it
<kiwinote> mpt,mvo: hi
<mvo> hey kiwinote
<kiwinote> had my last exam thismorning, but am about to start coding now
<mpt> hi kiwinote, and congrats on getting through them all
<kiwinote> thanks, it's good they're all over now
<mpt> seb128, I just updated the spec to include updates/downgrades too <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=377&rev1=376>
<seb128> mpt, thanks!
<seb128> mvo, ^
<seb128> ;-)
<mpt> mvo, who did the history work?
<rodrigo_> seb128, tedg didn't submit a fix for the libappindicator-cil thing, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, dunno I was not around during the weekend
<seb128> rodrigo_, nothing that's I've seen no
<mpt> kiwinote, so you're starting with apturl?
<kiwinote> mpt: gdebi was what I thought we'd agreed, but I don't mind doing apturl first. It may actually be a better idea..
<mpt> kiwinote, sorry, my mistake
<didrocks> pitti: e-d-s uploaded in -proposed
<mpt> kiwinote, I don't mind which.
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> mpt: did you have some time to have a look at oneconf design into USC?
<mvo> mpt: olivier did work on it and geliy sokolov
<kiwinote> mpt: i'll continue looking at gdebi first then
<mvo> mpt: but it should not be a big deal to update it
<didrocks> seb128: you're welcome :)
<mpt> mvo, ok, I'm just looking for ways to reduce your load :-)
<mpt> didrocks, it's still #2 on my list behind buy-stuff
<mpt> didrocks, I may get time for it this afternoon if I smile at ivanka the right way
<didrocks> mpt: urgh, hope it could come #1 your queue for this week :) So ok, I definitively abandon the idea for alpha2 :/
<huats> hello everyone
<didrocks> mpt: heh, great, thanks :)
<didrocks> hey huats
<pitti> didrocks: accepted, merci!
<didrocks> pitti: yw ;)
<pitti> didrocks: I won't copy it to maverick, though, it should be fixed properly there; ok?
<didrocks> pitti: for now, maverick will have 2.30.2 with the regression and waiting for upstream patch
<didrocks> pitti: I'll track the trunk
<didrocks> and seb128 discuss with upstream about it, so I think we're fine
<didrocks> I reopen the lucid task on the other SRU
<pitti> ah, right; thanks
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, i have packaging fixes for libappindicator-cil that fixes building against it... but nothing works with it still
<kenvandine> that requires fixes from tedg
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, nothing that uses libappindicator really works 100% right now :/
<ivanka> mpt: what is smiling at me going to get you?
<seb128> I think tedg was on it friday
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ah, ok, I was waiting for it to build a new tomboy package with a patch we have written
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah, he started it anyway
<seb128> he got a commit to fix the icon change
<seb128> "  Fix mono bindings by restricting gapi2-parser"
<seb128> as well
<seb128> kenvandine, could you try current trunk and see how it works?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, if you just want it to build... checkout the lp:~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu  package and build it locally
<seb128> commit suggests he fixed both
<kenvandine> seb128, sure
<kenvandine> awesome
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ah, ok, and what about submitting it? should I wait until it's uploaded to maverick?
<seb128> kenvandine, hey btw, how are you?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, not yet...
<seb128> kenvandine, how is the fever going?
<kenvandine> seb128, good... got pygi working for libgwibber!
<kenvandine> fever is gone :)
<kenvandine> finally...
<seb128> nice ;-)
<seb128> double nice ;-)
<kenvandine> i bit achy still... but much better than last monday
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ok, I'll wait then, trying to build it locally for now
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, glad you're better, yeah :)
<kenvandine> adding gobject-introspection and dropped the python bindings last night
<seb128> seeing the diff I'm unsure the mono build is fixed
<seb128> but let's wait for ted he should be there in an hour or so I guess
<kenvandine> the mono build was a packaging issue
<mpt> ivanka, designing OneConf as an afternoon activity
<kenvandine> seb128, i would like a review and sponsoring for libgwiber later today or tomorrow morning :)
<ivanka> mpt: need anyone else or is this a solo activity?
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<mpt> ivanka, it could be solo, but two or four more eyes would be useful
<ivanka> mpt: let's think about a buddy and then go for it
<mpt> It's rather a tricky interface design problem
<mpt> thank you
<didrocks> thanks mpt, ivanka :)
<didrocks> mpt: if you need any info about what we can do/can't for now, do not hesitate
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> good afternoon seb128
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine, good morning
 * TheMuso waves hello before turning in for the night.
<kenvandine> good night TheMuso
<seb128> hey TheMuso, have a good night
<ivanka> didrocks: no worries!
<kenvandine> seb128, appindicators work!
<kenvandine> including in mono
<seb128> nice
<kenvandine> i'll wait for tedg before i upload though
<seb128> kenvandine, upload? ;-)
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> he should be around soon :)
<ccheney> good morning
<didrocks> kenvandine: does it fix the icon issue too?
<pitti> mvo: oops, seems you uploaded synaptic without my change? seems that'll need some changelog fiddling then, shall I do that?
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hope everyone had a nice weekend
<kenvandine> didrocks, it does
<rickspencer3> good afternoon pitti
<didrocks> rickspencer3: TextEditor() is awesome btw :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: great \o/
<mvo> chrisccoulson: bug #429841 appears to be a problem for 8.04->10.04 upgrades, this is rather criticial, I would like to do a SRU on this today if possible (I think the patch is pretty easy)
<didrocks> that's a good day
<didrocks> evo indicator working again
<didrocks> appindicator too :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 429841 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 2 other projects) "broken packaging: package flashplugin-nonfree failed to install/upgrade: (breaks upgrade) (affects: 275) (dups: 124) (heat: 1444)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429841
<ara> pitti, ping
<mvo> pitti: sorry for the synaptic upload, I fixed the changelog, it will be part of the next upload
<pitti> hello ara
<pitti> mvo: no problem; it's not urgent, I just want bzr to be matching the archive :)
<ara> hey pitti, do you know if vmware workstation 7 for ubuntu also has this problem: bug 548891?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 548891 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "keyboard input broken due to invalid keyboard variant set by VMWare installer (affects: 37) (dups: 5) (heat: 204)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548891
<pitti> mvo: seems I found a way to not break the apt ABI for the lucid backport, BTW; but I guess for trunk I don't need to worry about that, right?
<ara> or only osx and windows?
<mvo> pitti: trunk> no need to worry, its full of abi breakage
<pitti> ara: I'm not sure, but it only happens with a think called "quick install" script
<ara> pitti, easy install, yes
<pitti> ara: but the result of the script (setting layout "SKIP") can be set locally easily enough
<mvo> pitti: bzr r1722 should be consistent with the archive again
<mvo> pitti: for synaptic
<pitti> ara: but I never reproduced it in vmware myself, I just set the configuration that this script produces
<pitti> mvo: yay you, danke
<ara> pitti, OK, thanks
<mvo> pitti: cheeers
<ccheney> ara, from my informal testing it seems installing on vmware 7.1 will workaround the problem
<ccheney> ara, but installs that were done prior to that would be broken without the fix
<ara> ccheney, OK, thanks for the information!
<chrisccoulson> mvo - did the bug have a patch already (I've not looked all the way through it yet)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: I'm testing a patch now
<chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks. i just haven't had time to look at that recently ;)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: if its good I will ask you for a second look and upload
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<mvo> chrisccoulson: we need to get it in before we enable 8.04 -> 10.04 globally
<mvo> chrisccoulson: cheeers
<seb128> mvo, when we plan to enable those? end of july?
<mvo> seb128: on 10.04.1
<seb128> ok, end of july then, right?
<mvo> I think it is, I don't have the schedule in front of me
<seb128> don't bother, I was just checking it was not rsn because you seem to want that change in today ;-)
<seb128> I was starting wondering if I should hurry to get some of my changes in ;-)
<mvo> seb128: today because it slipped under my radar and it will affect everybody that updates from 8.04 to 10.04 with flash (and that are lots of people)
<mvo> seb128: so maybe s/today/ASAP/ :)
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<chrisccoulson> mvo - is it possible to test hardy -> lucid upgrades with PPA sources? i wanted to test the upgrade with the firefox updates in hardy, but the lucid updates are still sat in the staging PPA, and update-manager disables the PPA sources before the upgrade
<mvo> chrisccoulson: yes, you can use RELEASE_UPRADER_ALLOW_THIRD_PARTY=1 in your environment (but be careful that sudo does not clear it away)
<chrisccoulson> mvo - awesome, thanks :)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: the auto-upgrade-tester package can also used for that, if you give me access to the ppa I can run a test for you
<chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks. the PPA is https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa (that contains all the packages for hardy and lucid)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, once the flashplugin-nonfree change is tested I will run this one. you need hardy->lucid tested?
<chrisccoulson> mvo - yes please. there will also be jaunty -> karmic and karmic-> lucid upgrades to test at some point too, but i've got some more work to do for those still
<mvo> chrisccoulson: ok, thanks. its pretty easy (or should be) to setup the auto-upgrade-tester. but for now I'm happy to run the tests for you
<mpt> didrocks, we're making progress
<didrocks> mpt: oh great, do you figure out a pleasant way to show all those info?
<mpt> didrocks, yep. At the moment we're tackling the distinction between "I want this program on this computer" and "I want this program on all my computers"
<didrocks> mpt: tricky, yeah :) keep in mind that we can say: "this application has been installed/removed on machineA theâ¦" to give a rational when showing the diff
<didrocks> or even "this app isn't present on machineA as never been installed"
<ccheney> didrocks, is netbook-meta fixed in maverick for 588723 its not closed out yet
 * ccheney is culling his open ff windows and noticed that
<didrocks> ccheney: it's in -proposed need someone confirming it's fixing the bug
<ccheney> didrocks, ah and then upload to maverick, or am i missing the sequence? :)
<didrocks> ccheney: no, it's already in maverick, but for lucid, it's in lucid-proposed and we want for someone confirming it fixes the issue
<ccheney> its still listed as 'triaged' for maverick it seems
<didrocks> (and then, it will be in lucid-updates)
<didrocks> oh really?
<didrocks> let me check, but I think it's uploaded
<ccheney> or at least the untargeted bugtask which normally means maverick
<ccheney> s/maverick/current dev release/
<didrocks> ccheney: yes, it's in maverick, sorry, didn't associate with the bug report, closing it now
<ccheney> didrocks, no problem thanks for updating the report :)
<didrocks> done now, thanks ccheney :)
<ccheney> didrocks, if you don't get a tester by the end of the week ping me and i can try to get to it this weekend, i'm pretty swamped with my special server projects
 * ccheney needs to clone himself
<didrocks> ccheney: oh sweet! I will for sure. Thanks for the proposal :)
<didrocks> heh, right :)
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: I've verified the new e-d-s in lucid-proposed it fixes the issue and seems to work correctly (ie I didn't notice other issues with it)
<didrocks> seb128: great, thanks for testing :)
<ccheney> didrocks, not sure if you have tried testdrive but it is great for these sorts of things
<ccheney> didrocks, you can have it use tmpfs also if you have enough ram so its very fast even if you don't have a ssd (i don't)
<seb128> didrocks, the change has been reverted to git as well and there is a one liner fix for evo instead, http://git.gnome.org/browse/evolution/commit/?id=9a8b5041b60bc5136dd21efb2e07b1cb172bce12
<didrocks> ccheney: yeah, I've already tried it once, but as I'm doing the SRU, I'll prefer someone else confirming :)
<didrocks> ccheney: oh, in tmpfs? great
<didrocks> seb128: I'll integrate in next evo upload, thanks
<ccheney> didrocks, i suppose you can use tmpfs for anything really but i noticed when doing a bunch of server testing it was helpful to make the testing go a lot faster
<didrocks> sure, as for my pbuilder :)
 * ccheney thinks he will finally buy a ssd once the intel g3 drives finally come out
<asac> hola ... whats the word on maverick ... any bad bustages atm? esp. wrt intel chipsets ;)?
 * asac is about to run dist-upgrade
<ccheney> do it and pray ;-)
 * ccheney is staying on lucid until beta
 * ccheney uses maverick in vm to keep his box from dying
<fta> asac, it's fine here (nvidia)
<fta> most of the recent crashers are gone
<asac> cool
<asac> ccheney: you are weak ;)
<ccheney> heh
<fta> i just can't play with my preferred fps because of pulseaudio :(
<asac> lol
<asac> i have the feeling all will be better for me ...
<fta> evil pulseaudio/alsa-plugin/openal combination
<asac> i am on GL ES anyway ;) ... so i don't care about games until those get ported
<fta> and noone cares enough obviously
<fta> Sarvatt, hi, did you see my message?
<asac> fta: ES 2.0 is tough to port to ;)
<fta> Sarvatt, x2/x3 speed up with the last commit. and it now looks like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/chromium-daily.html
<seb128> asac, works fine on my mini and my desktop
<asac> seb128: thanks. upgrade is running. will join you on the maverick side in a few hours ;)
<seb128> my laptop is still lucid ;-)
<seb128> I plan to upgrade later on this week
<asac> damn
<asac> does that mean i will be alon on my thinkpad ;)?
<seb128> I wanted to wait for GNOME 2.30.2 to do those srus for lucid
<seb128> which is today
<asac> seb128: ah ... then hurry ;)
<seb128> so I'm coming on the maverick side after that ;-)
<seb128> hehe
<asac> i will ensure you have a good ramp to land ;)
<fta> the new sound applet is.. well, wide. and textish..
<fta> asciish?
<asac> that the new approach
<fta> a play button using ">" and "||" looks kind of 2 decades old
<fta> i also have an empty "copy dialog" sitting there
<ccheney> fta, only 2 decades? i thought it was older than that on physical stereos :) (unless you mean the ascii instead of bitmaps)
<fta> ccheney, yep, ascii vs bipmaps
<seb128> the copy dialog is the same indicator icon doesn't update issue you had the other day with something else
<seb128> it's fixed in trunk should land in the distro today or tomorrow
<fta> seb128, i figured that out, that's why i didn't file any bug for it.. i just see my panel free space shrinking everyday, i just have enough room for 2 more icons
<seb128> you can restart indicator-applet to free space ;-)
<ccheney> fta, ah ok
<seb128> ccheney, hi
<seb128> ccheney, did you have time to look at the presentation issue?
<ccheney> seb128, not yet been very busy with server stuff, just got back to work on friday
<seb128> ccheney, ok, do you think you will have time this week?
<ccheney> i am going to try, may have to work over the weekend on it and some of the other sru bugs
 * ccheney has also been ordered to paint the house :-\
<seb128> there is no hurry hurry but we need to fix it for lucid .1
<seb128> so we have less than a month to get in lucid-updates
<seb128> knowing it takes at least one week to get the sru tested, it let some 2 weeks for getting the fix uploaded
<ccheney> ok will do my best to get it done by eow
<seb128> thanks
 * ccheney wishes gtg had priority levels within a day
<seb128> kenvandine, how is the indicator fixing going?
<seb128> kenvandine, is there anything stopping to upload the fixes from trunk?
<kenvandine> seb128, i wanted to try to help tedg figure out the policy.dll thing he was trying to get to work
<kenvandine> tedg, did you push that branch somewhere?
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah, it's in the indicator-applet-developers packaging branch.
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> i'll look at that after the meeting
 * tedg needs to come up with an abbreviation for "indicator-applet-developers"
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> tedg, you don't think that will require code changes, do you?
<tedg> kenvandine, I've already committed the code changes.  But I'd like to ensure they work.  It's mostly build changes really to build the policy file.
<kenvandine> tedg, if not... can you go ahead and release 0.2.1?
<kenvandine> ok
<tedg> kenvandine, I can.  I just wanted to see it work end to end :)
<kenvandine> i'll look at it in like 30m
<tedg> kenvandine, Cool, thanks!
<kenvandine> tedg, what specifically should i look at?
<kenvandine> just build it and look at the provides?
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah, try to install with the Tomboy that is still linked to libappindictor0.0-cli.
<kenvandine> ok
<tedg> kenvandine, It should be flawless, but it seemingly doesn't work.
<tedg> kenvandine, If you don't have one, the one in my PPA is linked that way.
<kenvandine> tedg, tomboy from maverick should be
<mpt> didrocks, I've attached the scribbling we did to the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf -- I'll write up something more definite now
<didrocks> mpt: ok, looking at it right now :)
<didrocks> mpt: ok, so it seems you really want to keep computers synced, which raises a lot of issues (as you wrote on the board :)). I'm curious to see your sorted ideas there how to tackle it
<didrocks> mpt: otherwise, seems fine (I think the "standard ubuntu" is for metapackage as we can see "netbook ubuntu")
<seb128> didrocks, do you have time for an easy sru or are you busy busy until end of day?
<didrocks> seb128: hum, I'm rather busy but can have a try
<seb128> didrocks, bug #595435
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595435 in ido (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "something strange hapend to mono icons (affects: 1) (heat: 834)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595435
<seb128> didrocks, I've assigned it to you, it's another lucid-updates brekage, though a smaller one just color in a slider
<seb128> didrocks, there is just 2 one liners to apply and rebuild the theme is like 25 seconds
<didrocks> seb128: it's in ido, ubuntu-mono rather?
<seb128> didrocks, if you can do it I can finish my other sru before sport and do test that update later on
<seb128> didrocks, ups, it's light-themes
<didrocks> seb128: sure, will do it
<seb128> didrocks, component changed
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, it's only a theme you do the update and try on maverick
<didrocks> seb128: ok, will be quicker so :)
<seb128> didrocks, you can use add .1 to the version for the sru, those are native sources
<seb128> didrocks, thanks!
 * seb128 goes back to the other sru on his list
<didrocks> seb128: done, enjoy your sport btw :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks and thanks!
<didrocks> seb128: you're welcome and welcome ;)
<seb128> didrocks, do you plan to go to the music fest today?
<didrocks> seb128: no, I'm still have some work and I didn't plan to get there in any case. And you?
<seb128> I will probably walk by on my way back from sport
<seb128> just to see how it is and grab some sandwish
<seb128> way to be lazy ;-)
<didrocks> heh, sure :-)
<seb128> didrocks, don't overwork yourself, I'm sure those tasks can wait tomorrow
<didrocks> seb128: well, that's true that today was a little crazy, but I'll be more relaxed tomorrow :-)
<seb128> right, mondays are often crazy
<seb128> everybody had lot of ideas during the weekend or things not done on friday to land
<didrocks> heh, that's true ;)
<didrocks> evo updates are also time consuming. Not hard, but it takes timeâ¦
<seb128> don't tell me ;-)
<seb128> I'm glad you are doing those this cycle :p
<didrocks> heh, you didn't tell me that first, it was a trap! :-)
<pitti> didrocks: saw seb's confirmation of evo; I need to run now, if seb128 comes back please ask him to copy to -updates
<pitti> see you tomorrow!
<didrocks> pitti: thanks, see you tomorrow
<Sarvatt> fta: bad idea to use --dir pointing right at the hosted directory huh? i love the most recent changes though, thanks for the heads up! i broke down and backported all the python-launchpadlib stuff to jaunty to use it on my server at http://sarvatt.com/xorg-edgers/ and it auto updates from bzr before updating every 10 minutes so ya can see your changes :)
<fta> Sarvatt, what do you mean for --dir? it's "." by default, i use a temp dir that i upload to my people.u.c dir
<Sarvatt> i had --dir pointing at the directory thats served by accident, made index.html unusable while it was updating :)
<fta> oh, i should probably do something better there
<fta> Sarvatt, is it faster?
<Sarvatt> no big deal the way it is
<Sarvatt> yeah lots!
<fta> excellent
<fta> the slowest part is now --repo
<fta> i should probably cache that too
<Sarvatt> yeah it does a crapload of lookups there for xorg-edgers since theres so many packages, its still less than a minute to update though
<gnomefreak> when are we planning on releasing gnome 3. looks like statble tarballs will land Sept. 27
<gnomefreak> Win 3
<seb128> gnomefreak, not this cycle
<seb128> or at least not in the default installation
<gnomefreak> seb128: 2.30?
<seb128> we will likely get a ppa with updates
<seb128> yes, what we have now with selected updates
<gnomefreak> seb128: ok cool. i didnt think we pushed to PPA since it is alot of packages/libs
<seb128> the number of changes over a cycle makes difficult to be confident we will get something stable for this cycle
<gnomefreak> seb128: ok thanks
<seb128> we will likely have a ppa I said
<seb128> it's not sure and I'm not sure what we would have there
<gnomefreak> seb128: ok works for me
<gnomefreak> thanks
<seb128> y
<seb128> yw
<RAOF> Morning gents.
<TheMuso> Morning RAOF.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-22
<rickspencer3> hi RAOF
<rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
<RAOF> Morning rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> good night all, time for a bit of a break
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't see seb128 yesterday evening. I think e-d-s hasn't been copied to -updates
<pitti> ok, will do that
<didrocks> thanks pitti :)
<seb128> pitti, hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, do you have any opinion on what to do with GNOME 2.30.2 updates which only have translation updates?
<seb128> is that worth doing sru uploads for those?
<pitti> hm, good question
<pitti> in theory we could just upload the .po files to rosetta
<pitti> that would avoid a rebuild/SRU and should not be a lot of effort (one tar and one web ui upload per package)
<seb128> ok
<pitti> not sure, WDYT?
<seb128> let me see if dpm can help me to get that done
<seb128> I would agree with uploads
<seb128> rosetta uploads I mean
<seb128> dpm, hey
<pitti> hm, I don't see an "upload" button on https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/gnome-panel
<pitti> I have one on my own project pages
<pitti> seems that requires some super-powers?
<pitti> seb128: so if you or dpm could just upload the tarballs, that seems easiest to me, and safe as well
<seb128> pitti, ok, what I think as well, thanks
<seb128> pitti, I will still do the gnome-desktop one to have the "about GNOME" version updated, I guess that's ok?
<pitti> oh, sure
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti, how are you otherwise? ;-)
<pitti> I'm good, thanks!
<pitti> had some fun with apt yesterday, I did what I'm best at and broke everything :)
<seb128> hehe
<pitti> and seems I'm now getting pulled into a second OEM project
<seb128> I'm glad I'm still on lucid :p
<seb128> pitti, getting busier every day? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oh, I broke the OEM projects, not Maverick
<pitti> it was just because C++ sucks :)
<seb128> pitti, I've a feeling they will not want to let you come back after 6 months once they see what you can get done ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oh yes :) but that's a good thing
<pitti> I recently created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReducingDiskFootprint
<seb128> "Use XFCE instead of GNOME"
<pitti> but seems I'm done with that topic now, and back to boot speed :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: there are some focus changes for me right now, indeed :)
<seb128> I was thinking about speed the other day
<seb128> seems we stopped doing any chart for a while now
<seb128> or a least watching how those are doing
<pitti> right, would be interesting
<vish> seb128: hi, regarding papercuts and the gnome problem for maverick, we had decided to milestone more of non-gnome/non-gtk3-required bugs , so that will solve part of the problem..
<vish> regarding gnome packages , how can we ensure the non-gtk3-required bugs get fixed in Maverick?  you are probably not going to be backporting all those gnome changes from upstream regularly. is there some way to ensure they get patched in maverick?
<seb128> vish, ok
<seb128> vish, I can backport all the fixes to papercuts if they apply to the current codebase
<seb128> vish, if upstream refactored the code it might not be as easy though
<vish> seb128: yeah, it would be awesome if you can backport the changes.  shall i ping you regularly about the papercuts , or are you having a schedule to check those regularly?
<pitti> seb128: hmm, seems bootchart stopped creating .pngs.. I just get the .tgz
<seb128> vish, I will check the fix commited tasks
<seb128> pitti, do you have pybootchart-gui?
<vish> seb128: cool , thanks. :)
<pitti> seb128: yes; I'll run it manually now to see what's going on
<pitti> seb128: ah, crashes
<pitti> seems it's looking for something "RSDTZXW" in /proc and doesn't find it
<seb128> weird
<pitti> oh, that's the list of prossible process states
<pitti> "RSDTZXW".index(flag) + 1
<pitti> i. e. some process is in a state which isn't contained there
<pitti> ok, got it fixed
<seb128> nice
<seb128> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReducingDiskFootprint is interesting reading
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-maverick-20100622-1.png
<pitti> doesn't look that much different from lucid, I think
<pitti> except that nm-applet seems to have regressed
<pitti> hm, hang on; I think I set an empty keyring password this time, so it'd connect automatically
<pitti> that might explain the difference
<seb128> right
<pitti> but the applet still seems to consume an inordinate amount of CPU
<pitti> it should be wpasupplicant and N-M doing all the work
<pitti> this is still the -4 kernel, but userspace should be current as of yesterday
<seb128> I'm wondering if they do but that just reflects on the applet on the chart for some reason
<pitti> hm, I don't think bootchart is that bad
<pitti> they are just connected via dbus, it's not the same process or so
<seb128> ok, so I've no clue why it's taking so much cpu
<seb128> I don't think nm-applet changed since lucid and we did solve the icon loading issue
<pitti> I'm going to trash the mini now and install something else, but this one has zero customizations, so I guess there's not much evidence to kill
<seb128> well we do lazy load animation icons
<pitti> but good to know that there are no obvious regressions by now
<seb128> but if you autoconnect you do load those
<seb128> still it should not create that much cpu use
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, i'm good thanks (much better than yesterday). how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> oh, you were not feeling ok yesterday? side effect from weekend gardening?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i didn't feel too good yesterday. i got quite badly sunburnt at the weekend, and i ached a lot from doing gardening too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so next weekend less effort and a bit extra relaxing ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i intend to do nothing next weekend ;)
<rodrigo_> I just did a gnome-settings-daemon-2.30.2 release, can someone please upload it (we need it for u1), or should I submit a branch?
<seb128> ?
<seb128> to lucid or maverick?
<seb128> you need the .pc there?
<seb128> what is u1 doing with it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, to maverick
<rodrigo_> seb128, we need the .pc file changes because we're writing a gsd plugin
<seb128> rodrigo_, to do what?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm just being curious ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will do the update today
<huats> morning
<rodrigo_> seb128, to listen for changes in config and notify users of quota exceeded in u1 server, and other things not yet defined
<rodrigo_> seb128, if you want, I can submit a branch with the changes?
<seb128> rodrigo_, changes to what? g-s-d for the update?
<seb128> lut huats
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm not sure I like adding things to g-s-d, it makes it fragile and slow desktop login
<zyga> hmm, is it just me or is terminal background handling broken in lucid? selecting 'solid color' makes the background partially transparent?
<zyga> while selecting 'transparent background' allows me to select fully opaque background?
<seb128> it's a theme issue
<seb128> try with an another theme
<huats> hello seb128
<zyga> seb128, I selected custom colors... anyway - checking with other theme
<seb128> zyga, known issue with the theming change done in lucid
<seb128> "solid color" means "what the theme used define"
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> which is translucid background for the light themes
<zyga> seb128, I see
<seb128> rodrigo_, if you have it ready feel free to hand it to me for review
<rodrigo_> seb128, it's a very lightweith plugin, don't worry
<rodrigo_> seb128, we thought about having it as a separate daemon, but that would slow things more
<seb128> rodrigo_, well I don't like much things watching files and servers, it means ios and that's often slow
<seb128> rodrigo_, but let's see how it behaves in practice
<rodrigo_> seb128, it doesn't watch files or servers, it just listens to dbus signals
<seb128> so you have another service running which sends those signal?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, syncdaemon
<seb128> couldn't the said service displays the informations directly?
<rodrigo_> well, it's too heavyweight already to have more code added to it, and we don't want gtk usage there
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let's see how it goes in practice
<rodrigo_> anyway, you just reminded me that we should connect to dbus after a timeout long enough that we don't interfere with the desktop login
<rodrigo_> as the screensaver and other gsd plugins do
<seb128> rodrigo_, would be nice yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, so where is your gsd update for review?
<rodrigo_> seb128, just a minute
<seb128> ok, no hurry
<rodrigo_> I get this btw when branching:
<rodrigo_> Doing on-the-fly conversion from RemoteRepositoryFormat(_network_name='Bazaar pack repository format 1 (needs bzr 0.92)\n') to RepositoryFormat2a().
<rodrigo_> This may take some time. Upgrade the repositories to the same format for better performance.
<rodrigo_> I hope it's not a problem, kenvandine had a hard time merging some of my branches for couchdb-glib and evo-couchdb
<seb128> should not
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, pushing, it takes time it seems, because of the different branch formats
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/gnome-settings-daemon/2_30_2_release/+merge/28154
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks, will review that after lunch
<rodrigo_> ok, thanks
<Zdra> seb128, maverick GTK package depends on recent version of libx*
<Zdra> seb128, is there a reason for that?
<Zdra> those libs are not in lucid
<Zdra> removed the versionned dep, rebuild on lucid, and it works fine...
<Zdra> seb128, we need gtk 2.21 for Empathy, so we are going to backport glib/gtk/dconf from maverick into our ppa. Is there any issue you think we could have?
<dpm> pitti, seb128, sorry for the late reply. The "upload button" is here -> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/gnome-panel/+pots/gnome-panel-2.0/+upload
<seb128> Zdra, hi
<pitti> dpm: ah, nice; thanks! must have overlooked it
<seb128> Zdra, not really, debian updated those requirement for the udeb changes, the udeb are special debs for the installer
<mpt> mvo, good morning, did you get details from the Launchpad team on the archive index stuff?
<seb128> Zdra, if you don't plan to build installation using the debian d-i you should have no issue
<seb128> dpm, hi, thanks
<Zdra> seb128, cool thanks :)
<seb128> dpm, will those upload count as upstream translations or ubuntu ones?
<seb128> Zdra, you're welcome
<dpm> pitti, it's a bit difficult to find, actually. You have to first click on " View template & all languages..." and then you get to the upload link
<dpm> that's probably why you did not find it, it's a bit hidden, tbh
<pitti> that's probably half of a feature to prevent accidental uploads ;)
<seb128> dpm, ?
<pitti> seb128: those are ubuntu translations; upstream ones are lp.net/gnome-panel/+pots
<seb128> pitti, right but I though there was a difference between strings coming from upstream and rosetta overrides
<pitti> ah, I see what you mean
<seb128> pitti, I want to make sure those are correctly flagged as upstream ones, ie will change in the next version if upstream change those
 * pitti defers to dpm
<seb128> pitti, rather than staying with what is uploaded because they count as ubuntu overrides of upstream strings
<zyga> mvo, hi - are you familiar with a software-center but where authorization popup freezes and has to be closed by clicking on 'x' (lucid). Authorization works the second time you try
<james_w> zyga: amd64?
<didrocks> seb128: if you can have a minute this afternoon, I'm stuck with a libtool issue for evo express branch (no hurry though)
<zyga> james_w, yes
<seb128> didrocks, tell me
<didrocks> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/453328/plain/. Context is: plugins/sa-junk-plugin/em-junk-filter.c calls e_shell_get_default defined in shell/e-shell.h
<james_w> zyga: it's a well-known bug with packagekit-gnome, I wonder if it's 64-bit specific, or more likely to happen on 64 bits.
<didrocks> seb128: em-junk-filter.c contains the right include, as -I../.., which makes it build successfully with gcc (first lines)
<zyga> james_w, I experience it every time I try - I actually learned to work around it without thinking
<didrocks> seb128: however, nothing linked and available from libtool
<james_w> zyga: debugging would be great, I can't reproduce
<zyga> james_w, any hints on how to start?
<zyga> I'm a little bit familiar with software-center
<zyga> but I never used policykit
<zyga> wait, did you say packagekit?
<zyga> or policykit?
<seb128> didrocks, in what object is e_shell_get_default defined?
<james_w> zyga: I meant polkit
<seb128> didrocks, you lack a -l<lib_having_the_symbol_you_use>
<didrocks> seb128: I think it should be built in libeshell_la-e-shell.lo
<seb128> didrocks, do you likely need a -llibeshell
<glatzor> hello mvo
<didrocks> seb128: let me have a try
<glatzor> mvo, do you remeber the spec about installing updates on shutdown?
<didrocks> seb128: I should change the rpath to to point to shell/ directory too
<didrocks> seb128: it's not a shared library btw, from what I see
<seb128> I don't know about rpath and never use those
<seb128> what you need is -L../..../eshelldir -llibeshell
<seb128> rather -leshell
<didrocks> seb128: and the difference with adding ../../shell/libeshell.la (which works?)
<seb128> that should work as well
<seb128> the .la will define those things for you
<didrocks> oh right, seeing in the header
<didrocks> ok, now I have to find the autofoo to get that working properly :)
<didrocks> do you think that I should add that in a separate patch than the express one?
<seb128> but upstream likely fixed that in their express codebase
<seb128> no
<didrocks> ok, I'll summit that upstream so
<didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
<seb128> you're welcome
<dpm> seb128, pitti, let me check something with the lp devs about upstream/ubuntu uploads and I'll come back to you
<zyga> mvo, james_w: I ran software-center --debug, but it does not mention the policykit transaction, I still get to reproduce this every time I try
<seb128> dpm, thanks
<james_w> zyga: it's a race between polkit-gnome and polkit I think, so you need to look that those components
<rodrigo_> appindicator-cil fix is in maverick now, right?
<rodrigo_> so, I can submit a new tomboy package?
<didrocks> ok, fixed, thanks again ;)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, fixed the appindicator-cil thing you mean? or were you talking to someone else? :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: was talking about the libtool issue I had (few lines before :)), sorry ;)
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<didrocks> rodrigo_: but yeah, appindicator-cil is fixed normally now
<seb128> rodrigo_, that got uploaded today
<dpm> seb128, pitti, when uploading a tarball, all translations uploaded in that tarball are marked as upstream. So an option for those updates (if there aren't many, because the tarball uploads when not going through package uploads must be done manually - i.e. there is no API for that) would be to fetch them from git upstream, put them in a tarball along with the template and upload them through that form. The caveats I see though: a) if there are many su
<dpm> ch updates, doing all this manually might be quite an overhead b) As we'll be uploading a POT template (otherwise the PO files won't be imported), that POT template must be the one from the Ubuntu package if there has been any string modification or addition in the package. I'm not too sure what implies the most overhead: the manual uploads or SRU'ing, what do you think?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, ok, thus my confusion :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, uploading tomboy then
<rodrigo_> seb128, we backported the patch to 1.2 btw, so we'll leave to you the decision to move to 1.3 :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, how come you didn't go for 1.3? upstream are not sure they will not depends on gtk3?
<pitti> seb128, dpm: I think manually creating and uploading a tarball should not make too much work; less work than a full SRU, in any case
<pitti> and we are speaking about an order of 5 packages here, not 50, right?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, they are sure, but just in case some other dep pulled gtk3
<seb128> dpm, pitti: hum, I'm unsure now, I think I will be lazy and let translation team pick those updated po if they want
<seb128> pitti, yes, I've exactly 5 of those on my list right now
<rodrigo_> seb128, we have the patch for 1.3, so for alpha3 we might want to upgrade, but we really don't need it, thus our conservative behavior :)
<pitti> they don't need to be from git upstream (although that wouldn't make much difference wrt. efforts involved), we'd just need to tar cv po/ and upload that, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti, tar wouldn't give us the right pot though
<dpm> pitti, yeah, we'd need the pot as well
<seb128> pitti, we need to apply patches and run intltool-update then do a tarball I think but yes
<pitti> seb128: ah, right, because of the pot
<dpm> either generating it or simply downloading the one from rosetta and putting it into the tarball
<pitti> but you'd need to do that for an SRU as well
<seb128> right, it's just that I know what I'm doing when I do a SRU
<pitti> seb128: so, if you decide to do full SRUs
<seb128> I feel less confident with tweaking launchpad
<pitti> then it's fine, but it involves an additional verification step again, and the additional overhead of users having to download the package for zero changes (well, hopefully :) )
<seb128> right, I don't want to SRU those
<seb128> I think I will just let things the way they are
<pitti> seb128: since these aren't urgent, perhaps just try with one package for now, and see how it goes?
<pitti> or ignore them, right
<seb128> translation team can upload updated po files themself if they want
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, if someone can merge https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/maverick/tomboy/1_2_with_proxy_support/+merge/28162 please?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, doing that
<rodrigo_> thanks
<seb128> dpm, pitti: thanks, I will let that on the side for now and might have a try to uploading a set of updated po later on to see how it goes
<pitti> right
<pitti> dpm: so if you just upload .po files it doesn't use the previous pot by default? that'd make a nice addition
<pitti> because then we coudl even write a script which does git pull, bundle po/, and upload it to LP
<pitti> lunch, bbl
<seb128> well apparently rosetta is getting that feature of importing from upstream git
<dpm> pitti, currently, you can only do that for individual PO files. When you upload a tarball, it needs to have a POT files to attach the PO files to
<seb128> dpm, so can I do upload 5 po files rather than a tarball?
<seb128> dpm, in which case do I need a pot as well?
<seb128> dpm, and would translations still count as upstream ones?
<pitti> individual po files sounds fine, as long as we script it
<dpm> seb128, in general only translation team members can do that, but perhaps maintainers can do it as well. In order to mark them as upstream ones, you'd simply have to tick the "Imported translation" checkbox. We can try. Can you upload files there? ->
<dpm> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/gnome-panel/+pots/gnome-panel-2.0/ca/+upload
<seb128> dpm, pitti: ok, I think I've all the info, will figure what to do later on, thanks
<dpm> ok, great
<rodrigo_> seb128, ugh, my tomboy upload was rejected, but I have permissions on that package AFAICS
<rodrigo_> where can I check my per package permissions?
<geser> rodrigo_: AFAIK only with the LP API
<rodrigo_> geser, ok, but how?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ./edit_acl.py query -p <person> from ubuntu-archive-tools
<rodrigo_> what API calls I mean?
<didrocks> lp:~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk
<rodrigo_> ok
<didrocks> you can also -s <source_package>, but I don't know if that only should groups
<dpm> seb128, pitti, just for the sake of completeness, there's more info on how to do manual uploads here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators/Actions/LpTemplateAdministration#Manual%20template%20upload For the lack of an API, there is also the lp-translations-tools project to automate a bit the upload part. cjwatson uses it to upload the d-i translations, but in the current state the script needs a bit of tweaking to log into LP. Ok, I
<dpm> shut up and get something to eat now
<didrocks> because you're not for tomboy at least
<seb128> dpm, thanks ;-) enjoy your lunch
<ara> chrisccoulson, hey! I have been testing some of the cases in Karmic, and some failed. Have a look when you can, and let me know any information you might need
<rodrigo_> ugh, it just shows permissions for couchdb-glib and evolution-couchdb
<rodrigo_> I'll talk to persia
<chrisccoulson> hi ara - the ctxextensions issue is because i removed the updated version from the PPA
<chrisccoulson> i will reupload a working version later
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will sponsor the upload for this one
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, please
<ara> chrisccoulson, OK, I will retest then
<chrisccoulson> ara - i don't think that diggler worked before did it?
<ara> chrisccoulson, I am afraid I didn't try
<chrisccoulson> ara, IIRC, diggler wasn't detected before, so I removed the update from the PPA
<ara> chrisccoulson, OK
<chrisccoulson> ara - the same also for itsalltext
<seb128> rodrigo_, or, merged and uploaded
<seb128> rodrigo_, g-s-d the version should be -0ubuntu1 not -1ubuntu1, I'm fixing that before uploading
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, sorry
<geser> rodrigo_: did we (the DMB) formal finish your application? I checked the minutes and two items got deferred to e-mail votes. But I don't remember if we did an followup :(
<seb128> rodrigo_, no worry
<rodrigo_> geser, persia told me at UDS that I got the permissions, so I guess it was finalized
<rodrigo_> geser, I assumed it was done, but this is the 1st upload of the other packages that I do
<geser> rodrigo_: then talk to cjwatson as the DMB can decide on PPU but only TB members can implement them
<rodrigo_> geser, ok
<didrocks> well, the archive admin tool seems to tell that you should have the right
<didrocks> maybe somes dots are badly connected :)
<didrocks> evolution express backported to 2.30.2 \o/
<seb128> nice
<didrocks> it seems soâ¦ fast :) (non blocking ui)
<seb128> didrocks, what do you mean non blocking ui?
<chrisccoulson> ara - ok, ctxextensions is back in the PPA again. i will look at your other issues shortly
<didrocks> seb128: you know, sometime (and especially on slow machine), when evolution is scanning for your ldap account name for instance, you got a slowdown and you can't do nothing else in evolution. That doesn't happen in express mode
<chrisccoulson> i've noticed that with evolution ;)
<chrisccoulson> with the combination of evolution and U1, i can't do anything at all on my laptop for 5 minutes after logging on
<seb128> didrocks, dunno about this one but I though issues were due to eds api being synchronous so I'm wondering how express can be different
<didrocks> seb128: that's a good question, it doesn't happen there (and no eds change)â¦ but I didn't tried evo 2.30 yet on a netbook before express, so maybe it's in 2.30 as well
<seb128> didrocks, that would make sense
<didrocks> seb128: I remember to have read about it somewhere, not sure if it was related to express or not
<mvo> chrisccoulson: if you could have a quick look over the debdiff of https://edge.launchpad.net/~mvo/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=flash&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter= that would be nice. this should be enough to make the flash upgrade not fail
<chrisccoulson> mvo - thanks, i will take a look at that shortly
<fta2> didrocks, seb: (fyi) since i moved to maverick, evo takes a long while to appear (often more than a minute). in lucid, the UI used to appear quickly, followed by a quite long sync of my folders. now, it takes a while just to see the UI, and even more time to update the folders.
<didrocks> fta2: more than a minute? I dont reproduce that here. evo happens in some seconds and then syncâ¦
<didrocks> when did you upgraded? did you have the same issue with 2.30.1?
<didrocks> (just uploaded 2.30.2 yesterday)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, it looks good in my test so far, I will probably upload shortly (test upgrade is at 94%)
<fta2> didrocks, several weeks ago
<didrocks> fta2: hum, and does 2.30.2 changed anything?
<fta2> didrocks, will tell you that when i'm back at home
<didrocks> fta2: ok, keep me posted
<rickspencer3> msg seb128 hi
<rickspencer3> msg chrisccoulson hi
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3
<chrisccoulson> how are you today?
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> did I forget a couple of slashes there?
<chrisccoulson> i think so ;)
 * rickspencer3 sips coffee
<chrisccoulson> i'm on red bull today, it's far too warm for coffee ;)
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, anyway I was wondering if you were coming to the meeting that beuno scheduled that's in 50 minutes?
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, yeah, i planned to
<rickspencer3> since he works in online services, he'll handle some of the search engine integration stuff going forward
<rickspencer3> so this should alleviate a bit of work for you
<chrisccoulson> cool :)
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<rickspencer3> seb128, I can only make the first 30 minutes of the team meeting
<rickspencer3> which, btw, I haven't created the wiki for yet, etc...
<rickspencer3> :(
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok, seems it's plenty of time to cover your part, then I can take over for work items tracking etc
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<seb128> np ;-)
<rickspencer3> I'll just want to talk about guadec and distro sprint
<rickspencer3> after I dig out from my email, I'll get the page set up
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: ok to convert evolution-indicator to "merge-upstream" mode?
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3 (without msg ;))
<seb128> didrocks, your call since you maintain it
<seb128> didrocks, but yes
<rickspencer3> msg didrocks I think seb128 is going crazy, can you help him?
<rickspencer3> dang it!
<didrocks> seb128: oh, I won evolution-indicator too? ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: heh :-)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> seb128: damn, I know I should have never looked at evo :-)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, can I talk you into doing a quickly session at developer week?
<rickspencer3> actually ...
 * didrocks checks when devweek is
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I moved it to #quickly
<rickspencer3> seb128, sorry to surprise you with this ...
<rickspencer3> but we should have Alpha 3 work items set up by eod this Thursday
<rickspencer3> (in 2 days)
<seb128> rickspencer3, why? don't those start after alpha2 is released?
<rickspencer3> seb128, it doesn't need to be final, right
<rickspencer3> so this would be one week before
<seb128> we mostly have those defined already I think
<rickspencer3> I need to tell Jane, Mark, and the community about what we will focus on
<rickspencer3> we should readjust next week, but we should scrub our A3 work items this week
<seb128> ok, will check what is missing
<rickspencer3> right now we have about 76 work items targeted for A3
<seb128> I guess didrocks needs to set some
<rickspencer3> but that will be too many
<rickspencer3> or it might be
<rickspencer3> we should only put in as many work items for A3 as we got done in A2
<didrocks> seb128: I'm going to trade between alpha2 and alpha3 + add last minute packaging ones
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<rickspencer3> so, everyone should only have as many work items in A3 as they think they will get done in A2
<seb128> rickspencer3, so around an hundred
<rickspencer3> it's the best approximatin
<rickspencer3> 100?
<seb128> yes
<rickspencer3> seb128, sure, if that's what we get done
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
<rickspencer3> or if that's your estimate
<seb128> we started around 130
<rickspencer3> seb128, right, if we stay under the trend line
<seb128> I've looked at the list
<rickspencer3> ack
<seb128> we will get at least 110 done I think
<rickspencer3> so we didn't overshoot by much
<seb128> no
<seb128> well we did defer some
<seb128> so right, our DONE count will be around 80
<rickspencer3> ok, so we should for 80
<rickspencer3> I want the milestoned worked items to be a solid commitment, rather than a goal
<seb128> which is what we roughly have now
<rickspencer3> of course, if someone has a goal to get more things done, they should strive for that
<seb128> the current alpha-3 list seems something we can commit to
<rickspencer3> seb128, right
<rickspencer3> maybe some tweaks next week depending on what we get done this week
<rickspencer3> but I guess it looks about right
<seb128> right
<seb128> I think we have the rough idea done
<seb128> and we have one week for tweaking
<seb128> hum
<rickspencer3> so maybe no action for you
<seb128> we need to get chromium on that list though
<rickspencer3> across Ubuntu, though ...
<rickspencer3> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/all-maverick-alpha-2.html
<rickspencer3> we are waaaay over the trend line :/
<seb128> yeah
<rickspencer3> seb128, in terms of chromium, is that chrisccoulson?
<seb128> but robbie said something about teams being mostly on the trend
<seb128> not sure where the extra items come from and where they are tracked
<rickspencer3> seb128, me either
<seb128> so we have a no-team-listed graph?
<rickspencer3> I'll figure it out
<seb128> ok
<seb128> rickspencer3, chromium would be chrisccoulson yes once the firefox stable updates settle
<rickspencer3> I'm wondering if A2 was a special case for chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> that should be this week :)
<rickspencer3> because the FF thing was such a distraction
<chrisccoulson> (it will be mostly testing and a bit of bug fixing after that)
<rickspencer3> it was all maintainer work, not a lot of time for work items
<seb128> rickspencer3, I would think so, we will not change our firefox packaging model every cycle
<rickspencer3> but maybe it will always be like that?
<rickspencer3> but there will be security updates and such every cycle
<seb128> right, but those will be like one week every month
<chrisccoulson> there will be less work to do once hardy, jaunty and karmic are EOL, as we removed a lot of extensions
<seb128> not like one month every month ;-)
<chrisccoulson> but there will still be a lot of work when a new major version comes along
<seb128> rickspencer3, I think maintaining firefox is like maintaining GNOME at some extend
<rickspencer3> yeah
<seb128> the updates and bug tracking take quite some time
<seb128> but it should not be full time
<seb128> like one or two weeks a month
<seb128> which let some half capacity for work items
<seb128> or for other webbrowser, n-m, etc
<chrisccoulson> mvo - the flashplugin change looks ok (but i see it's uploaded anyway ;) )
<chrisccoulson> sorry i didn't get a chance to look at it sooner
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, if you could just add a comment in the bug, that would be nice (comment that it looks ok)
<seb128> rickspencer3, seems lot of the over trend on alpha2 is due to arm work items
<seb128> rickspencer3, ie http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/arm-user-platforms-maverick-alpha-2.html
<rickspencer3> seb128, ack
<pitti> . o O { I really wish I wouldn't have used my own home dir for those; I get 20 highlights a day due to that :-) }
<rickspencer3> I'll have to roll my own Ubuntu Engineering burn down
<pitti> hello rickspencer3, good morning
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<pitti> rickspencer3: you pung last night?
<rickspencer3> yeah
<seb128> pitti, you should filter out those url from highlights ;-)
<rickspencer3> let me PM
<fta> didrocks, the last evo doesn't have the fix for gnome 619959, right?
<ubot2> Gnome bug 619959 in Mailer "Crash in format_itip at itip-formatter.c line 2567" [Critical,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=619959
<didrocks> fta: no, it's hasn't
<fta> ok
<didrocks> fta: I'll integrate it in next upload, this is pretty annoying for users
<fta> indeed
<didrocks> fta: oh no, remember now, it was slowing down a lot evo
<fta> well, it was slow before here
<didrocks> I experienced the slowiness only with that patch
<didrocks> I'll give it a shot again this week, to see how it fits in .2
<fta> well, i use evo for work, so i need the patch to prevent the crash
<fta> i roll my own builds anyway
<didrocks> fta: keep me posted if you have bad side effects
<fta> didrocks, just timed the last update (+ 2 patches i have to carry), 28 sec to see the UI
<didrocks> fta: let me try there
<fta> it's an idle quad-core
<didrocks> fta: 6s, idle dual-core
<fta> didrocks, 20sec for the next 3 startups
<fta> didrocks, same with --offline
<fta> same with --express
<didrocks> fta: that's weird, need upstream investigation (and try to remove the evolution-indicator and evolution-couchdb) :/
<fta> oh, it's fast with --disable-eplugin
<vish> didrocks: hi , remember Bug #111939 ;) , you and nigelb reviewed it last cycle , but was too late , can we get that in for Maverick?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 111939 in metacity (Ubuntu) (and 4 other projects) "Not possible to alt-tab during a drag-and-drop operation (affects: 8) (dups: 3) (heat: 79)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111939
<fta> ..faster, but still not very fast
 * didrocks adds to his TODO, thanks vish :)
<vish> didrocks: awesome ,thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, chrisccoulson has 2 c (you wrote it with one in the UNE work items changes you just did)
<chrisccoulson> heh ;)
<didrocks> seb128: hum? I moved one
<chrisccoulson> that always confuses people
<didrocks> (targetted for alpha3)
<seb128> didrocks, well that one has a typo then
<seb128> I noticed in the email I received
<didrocks> seb128: the [chriscoulson]separate spidermonkey from xulrunner ?
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> it was untargetted before, and I moved it to alpha3
<didrocks> where is the other one? one the une-default-app blueprint too?
<seb128> didrocks, I'm not saying you did a typo right now, I'm saying the item will not match chrisccoulson because it has a typo
<seb128> didrocks, nm, I'm changing it now
<didrocks> seb128: thanks
<seb128> didrocks, no, that was the one I noticed
<fta> didrocks, found it. it's caused by the "SpamAssassin Junk Filter" plugin
<didrocks> fta: that's why, I don't have it activated there.
<didrocks> fta: so, it has a huge regression, it seems
<fta> didrocks, ohoh, in my profile, the default junk plugin was unset. setting to the only available option (bogofilter) fixed it
<fta> +it
<didrocks> fta: hum, interesting, maybe the schema should be changed there
<fta> seb128, since you told me to change my keyboard layout, i have 2 (fr and fr alt). if i delete fr alt, everything is fine until i restart: fr alt keeps coming back as the active layout :(
<seb128> fta, it's likely either in .dmrc config to console-setup in etc one
<seb128> to -> or
<fta> .dmrc is fine
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, chrisccoulson, didrocks, kenvandine, pedro_, Riddell, seb128, tremolux
<rickspencer3> meeting time in 1 minute
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<didrocks> hey o/
<ArneGoetje> o/
 * pedro_ waves
<kenvandine> hey
<tremolux> heya everybody
<chrisccoulson> hi
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-22
 * ccheney is watching as well :)
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<rickspencer3> hi ccheney
<rickspencer3> so, i only have 30 mintues
<rickspencer3> I know you are all devastated by this news
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> but if we run over, seb128 said he can finish up with release stuff
<seb128> yes ;-)
<rickspencer3> first is outstanding actions:
<rickspencer3> OneConf testing (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing)
<didrocks> so, who tested? :-)
<rickspencer3> did anyone help out with this didrocks?
<didrocks> I asked the french community and got some feedbacks (6 people)
<didrocks> they have the list of apps and diff they expected
<didrocks> I'm still sure there are apps that shows that shouldn't and on the opposite too
<didrocks> but we'll figure out for A3
<didrocks> mpt is working on design now and mvo will work soon on USC plugin system
<rickspencer3> very cool
<rickspencer3> didrocks, is this in A2?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: the USC task was for A2, but I just postponed it to A3 as I'm blocking on design and USC
<rickspencer3> ok
<didrocks> things should be on track now, people got some time to work on what's blocking me :)
<rickspencer3> good job didrocks
<rickspencer3> awesome contribution
<didrocks> thanks :)
<rickspencer3> moving on ...
<rickspencer3> Guadec
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.canonical.com/Marketing/Events/2010/GUADEC
<rickspencer3> jono has kindly stepped in to coordinate us
<rickspencer3> so, I'll be there the whole time
<rickspencer3> but I haven't added myself to the wiki yet
<rickspencer3> anyone else going
<rickspencer3> ?
<didrocks> me o/ I was wondering if going the whole time was needed too or not, but after discussing with seb128, it seems most of people are going Monday and Tuesday too
 * rickspencer3 taps fingers
<seb128> I'm going
<seb128> will do that today
<rickspencer3> didrocks,  I think you should go on Monday and Tuesday if you want to hang out
<chrisccoulson> i wasn't sure whether i should go or not
<rickspencer3> but if you have other stuff that you want to do, in personal life, etc...
<pedro_> I'm going as well, i'll be there for almost the whole conference, i'm leaving on Friday noon
<rickspencer3> showing up Wednesday would be great as well
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I think you should absolutely go if you want to
<pedro_> there's a couple of interesting BoFs on Monday/Tuesday
<rickspencer3> ok, so everyone get on the Guaedec wiki today
<rickspencer3> if you are like chrisccoulson, and are *thinking* about going, feel free to ping me or seb128 to discuss
<rickspencer3> next item is the sprint
<rickspencer3> please book travel if you haven't already
<kenvandine> done :)
<rickspencer3> and start thinking about good goals for the sprint
<rickspencer3> also, add yourself to the sprint wiki
<rickspencer3> the sprint is July 19th - 23rd
<rickspencer3> this will be here before we know it!
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> U1 has slowly been trickling out weekly releases...
<kenvandine> this week will include the update rb plugin for the music store, with gwibber and url sharing
<kenvandine> for DX
<kenvandine> indicator-network is in universe, please test if you can
<kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConnMan
<kenvandine> for instructions... you don't need the ppa on maverick
<kenvandine> indicator-sound has landed with the player controls
<kenvandine> lots of good stuff to test :)
<kenvandine> appmenu hasn't been added to une by default yet
<kenvandine> pending bug fixes
<kenvandine> i am hoping it gets added soon
<kenvandine> that is all i have
<rickspencer3> no app menue in A2?
<didrocks> (not sure it will do it for alpha2, will be discussed next release)
<seb128> rickspencer3, I'm inclined to say no right now
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> rickspencer3, we can discuss that later on if you want
<rickspencer3> seb128, it's your call
<rickspencer3> if you say it's not ready, it's not ready
<seb128> ok, so not decided
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
<rickspencer3> no Riddell
<Riddell> no me?
<seb128> but it they don't start fixing their issue rsn it will not be in alpha2...
<rickspencer3> hi Riddell
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> I didn't see your update on the wiki
<rickspencer3> go ahead Riddell
<Riddell> never got a reminder e-mail :)
<Riddell> (possibly the fault of my e-mail)
<Riddell>  - new kubuntu council voted in, me, ScottK, neversfelde
<Riddell>  - I've promoted a metric tonne of packages to main, still waiting on MIRs but asac said just to do it now
<Riddell>  - packagekit got updated to 0.6
<Riddell>  - plasma-mobile is in the archive, a new variant should be along soon, "tech preview"
<rickspencer3> Riddell, fault of the emailer
<rickspencer3> ^suitably ambiguous
<Riddell> also debian import freeze this week, I did a run of new-source and I got the sync script fixed so I'm going over the backlog of syncs
<rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
<rickspencer3> didrocks, anything to add for UNE update?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks>  * Normal release this week, as well in maverick than in lucid UNE ppa, mostly bugfixes
<didrocks>  * Coming soon (next release), places with file (and zeitgeist) and applications places. Also workspaces switch handling!
<didrocks>  * No bug report in transitionning from lucid (UNE) -> maverick, and lucid (unity ppa) -> maverick: some people tried, good news!
<didrocks>  * So, maybe some uploads next Thursday at the beginning of the freeze for alpha2 (depending on when the freeze will begin) to get UNE in shape for alpha3 (MIR for new components + NEWing)
<rickspencer3> No bug report in transitionning from lucid (UNE) -> maverick
<rickspencer3> wow, that's quite surprising
<rickspencer3> nice job
<didrocks> well, it's been well tested ;)
<rickspencer3> wow, software-center status seems really detailed!
<seb128> didrocks, worked nicely there, great work!
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I know there's been lots of good progress there
<rickspencer3> any highlights to call out?
<didrocks> seb128: thanks ;) we'll se if A2 users will have the same experience :)
<tremolux> sure!
<tremolux> New Apps:  We have an Application Review Board LP team and PPA set up now (https://launchpad.net/~app-review-board)
<tremolux> and we've implemented a first-cut display of New Apps in the app-review-board PPA in software-center trunk
<tremolux> Buy Something: Big news is that we are adding a Software Center Agent web service that will be the primary contact point for Software Center
<tremolux> This new service will act as broker between the Payments API and Launchpad and represents a great improvement to our overall design
<tremolux> UI Enhancements: good progress - PPA/channel support for installed items view implemented, single-pane dept screen in-progress
<tremolux> (that's my summary)
<seb128> rickspencer3, still there?
<rickspencer3> so, maybe not everyone is aware that there is a change of plan here
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> this is on the server side
<tremolux> yes
<rickspencer3> it's really a better approach, at least I think it is
<rickspencer3> but it rather resets the schedule for some items
<seb128> Riddell, while you are at syncs can you add #590446 to the list?
<rickspencer3> however, we maintain the goal of making "buy something" work end to end during the distro sprint
<rickspencer3> seb128, I'm going to go into lurk mode now
<tremolux> yes, that's still the target
<rickspencer3> just ping me if you have any questions during release status or other business
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so we are approching alpha2 now
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
<seb128> we are on track but we need to keep working as we do currently
<seb128> the features should land by thursday this week
 * ccheney sees his server items show up on desktop too, heh :)
<seb128> then we have a bit less that a week for documentation, bug fixing, cleaning, etc
<seb128> ccheney, right, that's because you are a member of the team
<ccheney> ok
<seb128> while we wrap alpha2 we need start building the alpha3 list
<seb128> current status for alpha3 is http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-3.html
<pitti> that has a very odd shape right now :)
<seb128> the trend line and chart will be resetted after alpha2 is released so don't worry about it
<seb128> pitti, ^ ;-)
<pitti> it'll auto-reset after a2
<seb128> right
<seb128> so we need to make sure this list is on shape for next week
<pitti> 95 WIs seems ambitious
<seb128> so please review your items and clean things to have something you can deliver for alpha3
<seb128> what pitti said
<seb128> if we count the alpha2 items we did over 80 work items over that iteration
<seb128> knowing that chrisccoulson was busy with firefox and didn't do much work items tasks
<seb128> so I think 80 is around what we should have
<pitti> hm, in lucid alpha-3 we got 100 done, so perhaps it's fine
<seb128> if you have specs not on this list and should be let me know
<tremolux> seb128: one issue for software-center is that, with the new Agent web service approach, the work items need to be revisited and updated
<seb128> pitti, we had you in the team by then ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> (but that included stuff moved over to later milestones, too
<pitti> seb128: heh *hug*
<seb128> tremolux, that's fine, but can you try to do that by alpha2?
<tremolux> seb128: yes
<seb128> pitti, right, counting the DONE items for alpha2 we are around 80 items
<seb128> tremolux, thanks
<seb128> ok
<seb128> that's about it, summary
<tremolux> seb128: things are still somewhat in flux (the API specifically), but we should be able to make a good cut
<seb128> - let's get alpÄ¥a2 rocking
<seb128> - get your alpha3 items in order for next week (ie before alpha2)
<seb128> - let me know if some specs are not tracked and should or if you think we should do changes
<seb128>  
<seb128> tremolux, ok, we can still adjust later, we just want a rough idea for now
<seb128> I think we need chromium to show up on this alpha3 list somehow
<seb128> connmann as well
<seb128> so we will still tweak over the week
<pitti> uh, yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry that will likely be some extra tasks for you...
<pitti> if we are really going with connman, then rather sooner than later
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<seb128> pitti, we are blocked on dx for now
<pitti> for it will cause a hell of a lot of regressiosn
<seb128> pitti, their indicator is not ready to be shipped yet
<pitti> seb128: can't we use the upstream applet for now?
<didrocks> pitti: we discussed at UDS and first agreed on A2 for that reason, but what seb128 said
<seb128> but it's on their a3 roadmap
<pitti> so that we can already test the dbus backend?
<seb128> pitti, there is no upstream applet I think
<pitti> how does meego and frieds use it then?
<pitti> "friends"
<didrocks> it's their own ui
<didrocks> integration in meego "desktop interface"
<didrocks> for other like maemo, I don't know
<seb128> pitti, the indicator should be in a shipable state in the next weeks, it will be less work to get that ready than to adapt what others are doing around connmann
<kenvandine> it works pretty well now...
<seb128> pitti, ie the indicator is in universe now
<kenvandine> but lacks a way to tweak it
<kenvandine> so if you have problems, it is hard to save yourself
<pitti> I'm mostly concerned about the lack of pppoe, vpn, and testing with 3G
<seb128> pitti, so we can start doing opt-in testing
<seb128> ie people who want to test can install it
<pitti> I see
<seb128> pitti, right, we are a bit late on schedule and know it
<seb128> we will do a call for testing soon
<seb128> and it will be in UNE before alpha3
<pitti> alpha-3 sounds fine
<pitti> I'd just hate to see it slip to beta
<seb128> it will not
<pitti> since we'll have a hard time pulling it out again after beta
<seb128> if it miss alpha3 we will likely go to fallback plan to keep n-m
<pitti> sounds like a plan
<seb128> but we will not miss alpha3 I think
 * pitti STFU and let seb128 continue his great work
<seb128> or some people will get in trouble ;-)
<seb128> pitti, thanks for your comment, much appreciate
<seb128> always good to have feedback ;-)
<seb128> and so everybody is updated on the topic
<seb128> ok
<seb128> other comments, questions?
<seb128> seems not
<seb128> rickspencer3, still around? wanting to add something or should we wrap now?
<rickspencer3> no thanks
<seb128> thanks
<rickspencer3> I'll read backscroll
<didrocks> thanks everyone
<Riddell> seb128: I did that sync
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<tremolux> thanks!  good day everybody
<seb128> and don't forget to update wikis for sprint and GUADEC
<pitti> thanks everyone
<seb128> and work items for a2 and a3!
<seb128> Riddell, thanks
<seb128> Riddell, it was on the alpha2 list so checking
<Riddell> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html is worryingly long if anyone is short of things to do
<jcastro> didrocks: can we discuss banshee/UNE/hal?
<didrocks> jcastro: sure, can we in 25 minutes? I should go to some errands right now
<didrocks> oh no need for errands, praise to my gf :)
<jcastro> hah ok
<didrocks> jcastro: so, what's going on dude?
<jcastro> ok so I asked lamalex to kind of explain it
<jcastro> because there's stuff in like 3 different places
<lamalex> i can wait 25 minutes though
<lamalex> didrocks: just ping me when you're back
<didrocks> right, there is the iphone stuff, the udev backend and the rest of things :)
<didrocks> lamalex: no no, it's ok finally :)
<lamalex> oh ok
<didrocks> I will hopefully have something to eat tonight, don't worry :-)
<lamalex> :P
<didrocks> lamalex: so, apparently, your work will be reviewed this week-end, right?
<didrocks> (what aaron told)
<lamalex> didrocks: I hope so, I talked to alan today and he hopes to have his stuff merge ready into mine by tomorrow
<lamalex> aaron hasn't spoken to me, but if he says he plans on reviewing it this weekend then yeah
<didrocks> lamalex: oh, so merging the iphone branch with yours? already?
<lamalex> tomorrow
<didrocks> sweet :-)
<lamalex> and then aaron will review that (I assume)
<didrocks> it was in the email you should have received
<lamalex> ah, yeah
<didrocks> lamalex: can you poke him once merged?
<lamalex> sure
 * lamalex really wants to see banshee in une :P
<didrocks> so, as soon as aaron gave a +1, I'll try to import that in our banshee package
<didrocks> so that we can have testers :)
<didrocks> lamalex: heh, so do I
<lamalex> sweet
<seb128> didrocks, convince them to roll a tarball ;-)
<didrocks> lamalex: FYI, I have some interface changes for UNE
<didrocks> seb128: will try :-)
<lamalex> didrocks: wrt banshee?
<didrocks> lamalex: I just have one blocker and as I'm neither a mono hacker nor a banshee one, I have some hard time to get it done :-)
<didrocks> lamalex: I've tweaked the netbook interface to get it fit well into UNE
<didrocks> like switch back and forth between interfaces, just showing one at a time, and so on
<lamalex> ive never actually seen the meego interface
<didrocks> the remaining thing from my perspective is the status bar
<lamalex> i lost the ac cord to my netbook..
<didrocks> lamalex: it's really good, I've done not a lot for get it working in a good way
<lamalex> awesome! i wonder if i could build/run it on my desktop
<didrocks> so, for the last item, I hope to find a banshee hacker to help me, but no hurry in that :-)
<didrocks> lamalex: it's just --enable-meego in configure
<lamalex> cool beans, ill check it ouy
<didrocks> lamalex: but I think you will want my tweak, I'll publish them this week as soon as I have some time
<lamalex> i added this channel to my autojoin so i should be in here, ping me when youve got a patch i can test out
<didrocks> lamalex: sweet, I will (sounds like a friday task: breaking banshee :-))
<didrocks> lamalex: thanks a lot and do not hesitate to ping me as well as the hal-free merging process goes on
<lamalex> I'll keep you in the loop
<didrocks> thanks lamalex, and jcastro
<didrocks> and good work on removing HAL from banshee, not an easy task
<lamalex> thanks
<jcastro> didrocks: are you shipping it with a2?
<didrocks> jcastro: it won't make it, it should be MIRed before Thursday and integrated :-)
<didrocks> jcastro: but if things keeps moving on on that speed, I think it can be in an early daily image post A2
<jcastro> ok so we have time to break things then, whew
<didrocks> right ;)
<jcastro> didrocks: yeah something like "hardware support is totally broken, here's how to help"
<didrocks> jcastro: I'm sure you can help for community testing for this?
<jcastro> that's my plan!
 * lamalex will blog about it as well
<didrocks> jcastro, lamalex: let's rock banshee post alpha2 then! and keep us in touch :-)
<lamalex> wow the meego interface is sweet
<jcastro> I dude
<jcastro> lamalex: I mean, I know dude, it's nice.
<geser> rodrigo_: your PPU upload rights just got fixed
<om26er> kenvandine, there?
<om26er> bug 531835 was fixed for maverick but people often complain at #ubuntu and also #empathy guys face people too with the small font. can this be SRUed ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 531835 in empathy (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Fonts are very small (affects: 13) (heat: 74)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531835
<rodrigo_> geser, yeah, cjwatson did it, thanks
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, are you uploading the rb-u1 plugin new release?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, hey... i can if it is ready
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, or you can if you have upload rights for it
<kenvandine> seb128, want to rethink an SRU for bug 531835 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 531835 in empathy (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "Fonts are very small (affects: 13) (heat: 74)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531835
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, don't know if it's ready, just read the backlog of the meeting and saw you mention it
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, did aquarius tell you anything about it?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, ah... not that i know if... josh told me it would this week
<kenvandine> it had been blocked on the server rollout
<kenvandine> but the server side is done now
<rodrigo_> right, I was waiting on that also
<rodrigo_> ah, done?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, so it needs a release, etc
<kenvandine> josh said it was
<rodrigo_> I'll check with aquarius and then I can do the release
<rodrigo_> and upload
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, great
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> om26er, checking with seb128
<om26er> kenvandine, thanks
<jcastro> htorque: around?
<htorque> jcastro: yes
<jcastro> htorque: in hindsight I think my bug filing method for bugs is kind of wrong.
<jcastro> htorque: how do you feel about just doing "also affects" and adding each app to the master bug?
<htorque> jcastro: well, i guess it would be easier to follow which applications are affected by the master bug
<htorque> jcastro: right now i'd have to open all the duplicates to check if the problem is fixed
<jcastro> htorque: indeed
<jcastro> htorque: let's not make more work, how about we just leave them how they are but if you notice new apps just add them under also affects.
<jcastro> and then it'll be my job to communicate that to bratsche and ted
<htorque> jcastro: sounds good
<jcastro> thanks for your help so far, you've been great!
<htorque> much time thanks to the boring world cup :P
<bratsche> Which issue are you guys talking about?
<seb128> kenvandine, om26er: would that have any visual impact on users who run the standard config?
<seb128> kenvandine, om26er: ie if some user install lucid and upgrade would that result in a visual change?
<kenvandine> seb128, slight... it would make their chats use the same font as other applications
<kenvandine> seb128, the bug heat is getting up there...
<seb128> kenvandine, "there" being?
<seb128> kenvandine, I think I'm subscribed to this bug report and didn't see any comment recently
<kenvandine> 74 i think
<kenvandine> 98
<kenvandine> it would be a visual change
<kenvandine> but it does make it more consistent with other apps and honor the users settings
 * kenvandine doesn't have strong opinions either way
<seb128> I don't have one either
<seb128> om26er's screenshot seems fine to me
<seb128> ie the fonts on http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40145608/Screenshot.png are nice
<om26er> seb128, I find them hard to read
<kenvandine> yeah... but if you change your font settings to something very different... it won't honor them
<seb128> om26er, well then it's a matter of taste
<kenvandine> om26er, i think it looks nice too :)
<kenvandine> but yeah, taste
<om26er> no problem on my side but people come with complaints. I've seen them
<kenvandine> i can see if you change your font to something you really prefer... or bump the size up it is annoying that your chats don't honor that
<seb128> kenvandine, where did you get the 98 count? the bug has 13 users having the issue
<kenvandine> if you mouse over the bug heat in LP
<kenvandine> it says 98
 * kenvandine doesn't know how heat is calculated
<seb128> right, heat is buggy anyway
<kenvandine> but that number has gone up ... not sure why
<seb128> I've noticed some bugs with some hundred heat and no duplicate or comment and with 1 user having the issue
<seb128> let's not discuss that though
<kenvandine> i think what is in lucid isn't terrible... but the theme change is very minor and it really just stops forcing a value
<seb128> is there any way we could still have a correct default and let user change settings?
<kenvandine> zdra just committed a fix for empathy so it uses the document font instead of app font
<kenvandine> which was my complaint
<kenvandine> no...
<seb128> right, I was going to point that
<kenvandine> but that goes along with the theme change
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let's get didrocks' current empathy sru go to updates
<kenvandine> right now if we don't force a value it uses application font settings instead of document font
<seb128> then we can do the 2.30.2 with that empathy change
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> cool
<seb128> then we can backport the theme change
<kenvandine> om26er, ^^
<om26er> seb128, cool :)
<seb128> btw we need user testing for that empathy sru and some others
<om26er> kenvandine, seb128 thanks alot guys. time to sleep ;)
<seb128> so if you still have a lucid box can you try if the update works for you and add a comment saying that the update doesn't break things?
<seb128> pedro_, ^
<kenvandine> om26er, thx for the awesome bug hunting!
<kenvandine> whoops
<seb128> pedro_, we need some sru testing if you can help
<seb128> pedro_, I've another round of 2.30.2 updates waiting for reviews but we need some of the current one to be tested as well
<pedro_> seb128, I'm on it , doing evolution-rss atm and then i'm going for empathy
<seb128> pedro_, thanks
<pedro_> you're welcome
<asac> i cant open gwibber through the messaging indicator anymore ;)
<asac> in maverick
<asac> is that button the "broadcast button" ?
<asac> kenvandine: ^^
<kenvandine> asac, it is
<kenvandine> look at the log, ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
<asac> kk
<asac> kenvandine: everytime i click there i get:
<asac> 2010-06-22 21:22:28,543 - Gwibber GNOME Client - INFO - Running from the system path
<asac> 2010-06-22 21:24:50,693 - Gwibber GNOME Client - INFO - Running from the system path
<asac> not much
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> that looks like it is working..
<asac> the same happens if i click on it in application menu
<asac> let me check
<kenvandine> run it from the command line
<asac> only the service is running
<asac> ps -eaf | grep gwibber
<asac> asac      2512     1  0 00:47 ?        00:00:07 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/gwibber-service
<asac> asac     28142 16999  0 21:26 pts/7    00:00:00 grep gwibber
<asac> so its not hidden on some worksapce at least ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> yeah
<asac> ah in xsession-errors i have something:
<asac> kenvandine: here we go: http://paste.ubuntu.com/453545/
<asac> couch doesnt like me ;)
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> did this just start happening?
<asac> it started today
<asac> though i upgraded to maverick last night ;)
<asac> but i Âµblogged about the successful upgrade iirc
 * asac checks ;)
<kenvandine> killall gwibber-service beam.smp desktopcouch-service
<kenvandine> and try again
<asac> kenvandine: http://identi.ca/notice/37390754
<asac> so seems its not new, but at least it opened after i tried a few times ("which probably means: took long")
<kenvandine> that traceback means couchdb is running, but desktopcouch can't access it
<asac> kk
<asac> beam.smp(1375): Operation not permitted
<asac> so thats not run as my user it seems
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> weird
<asac> couchdb   1375  1374  0 00:45 ?        00:02:03 /usr/lib/erlang/erts-5.7.4/bin/beam.smp -Bd -K true -- -root /usr/lib/erlang -progname erl -- -home /var/lib/couchdb -- -noshell -noinput -sasl errlog_type error -couch_ini /etc/couchdb/default.ini /etc/couchdb/local.ini /etc/couchdb/default.ini /etc/couchdb/local.ini -s couch -pidfile /var/run/couchdb/couchdb.pid -heart
<asac> kenvandine: i remember that we had something like that in the past ;)
<asac> anyway, now it seems to start
<kenvandine> that is the system couchdb
<kenvandine> so you have the server installed
<kenvandine> you shouldn't have couchdb installed, just couchdb-bin
<kenvandine> unless you need the server :)
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> have you suspended?
<asac> no ;)
<asac> my laptop is currently a desktop as it has no battery ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> mine is almost there
<kenvandine> 32% capacity
<kenvandine> gotta get a new one before the sprint
<asac> at least it weights 70% less now ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
<asac> yeah i have to get a battery too (not a new one as i dont have any battery;))
<pitti> good night everyone
<didrocks> good night pitti
<rickspencer3> hi lamalex
<lamalex> ha, hi
<rickspencer3> lamalex, I guess you know packaging for Ubuntu pretty well?
<lamalex> yeah, a fair amount
<lamalex> I had to do a bunch at jolicloud
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-23
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, RAOF, TheMuso, Eastern Edition?
<robert_ancell> yup
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Sure.
<rickspencer3> so, I have been pinned down all day, and haven't gotten back to the wiki :/
<rickspencer3> twice in a row is a pattern, I gues
<TheMuso> heh
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-22
<rickspencer3> let me get the irc logs, because I missed the 2nd have where seb128 went over release status
<rickspencer3> I'll let you know when I've gotten the wiki updated
<RAOF> :)
<rickspencer3> alright
<rickspencer3> so I got the irc logs on their, and fixed the conflict I created :/
<rickspencer3> shall we rock through the agenda real quick?
<TheMuso> Sure.
<RAOF> Sounds good.
<rickspencer3> ok, started with oneconf testing
<rickspencer3> didier got some feedback on this
<rickspencer3> it needs a UI design, then will be added to A3
<rickspencer3> next was Guadec
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.canonical.com/Marketing/Events/2010/GUADEC
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I think you are going, and are on the wiki, I don't think RAOF or TheMuso are going, right?
<TheMuso> Correct, I am not.
<RAOF> Right.
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> next is the sprint
<rickspencer3> I assume everyone has travel booked
<rickspencer3> if not, get it booked, please
<TheMuso> Yep
<rickspencer3> and don't forget to add yourself to the wiki
<robert_ancell> what is the wiki link?
<rickspencer3> also, start to think of some good goals for there
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I think marianna sent it to us n email
 * TheMuso grabs
<rickspencer3> ping me if you can't find it
<rickspencer3> nm
<rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Maverick
<rickspencer3> you can read the update sections yourselves, but I'll tough on some highlights
 * TheMuso double-checks that he is on there
<rickspencer3> you might want to check out Inidcator-network
<rickspencer3> it's pretty cool
<rickspencer3> there is a link for instructions there
<rickspencer3> note that it lacks modem support and other essential thing
<rickspencer3> s
 * TheMuso might just do so once he upgrades to maverick later today.
<rickspencer3> the sound indicator is pretty cool now
<rickspencer3> it's got the player UI built in
 * TheMuso read that.
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> so, for release status, we're under the trend line, so keep resolving those work items
<rickspencer3> but land new features by Thursday!
<rickspencer3> this Thursday, that is
<rickspencer3> that will give us a week to stabelize and have a rocking Alpha
<TheMuso> yep
<rickspencer3> for A3, we are going to shoot for 80 work items, distributed reasonably across the team ..
<rickspencer3> basically, sign up for about as many work items as you did in A2
<rickspencer3> remember, it's very cool to do *more* work items than you targeted
<rickspencer3> but if you sign up for too many work items, and end up punting a lot,
<rickspencer3> while kittens won't die, it just makes the team a bit less predictable
<rickspencer3> I think that was the meeting
<rickspencer3> questions?
<TheMuso> No
<RAOF> None here.
<robert_ancell> no
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> thanks guyses
<TheMuso> welcome
<RAOF> lifeless: I notice you've got a couple of your patches in our X tree that aren't seeing any action upstream.  Would you like me to do the wrangling required to get them into mainline?
<robert_ancell> ok, time to upgrade to maverick.  Fingers crossed I will still be here in 10 minutes :)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Will be doing that shortly myself.
<RAOF> If you'd like a more pleasant OpenGL + dual-head experience in your shiny new Maverick installs, I'd suggest sponsoring http://cooperteam.net/Packages/xorg-server_1.8.1.902-0ubuntu1_source.changes :)
 * RAOF â luncheon
<TheMuso> RAOF: Will take a look.
<TheMuso> RAOF: uploaded
<RAOF> TheMuso: Rocking.  Thanks!
<TheMuso> np
<RAOF> Gah.  Dear Lenovo/DHL: My address isn't, and has never been, 6 Lochner street.  I gave you my correct address when ordering, damnit!
<TheMuso> lol
<RAOF> That does explain rather well why they haven't delivered my base station yet :)
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> didrocks: Good morning.
<RAOF> didrocks: Incidentally, if you want any help with Banshee, I've hacked on it before so I'm reasonably familiar with the ins and outs.
<didrocks> good morning RAOF
<didrocks> RAOF: oh sweet!
<didrocks> RAOF: did you see my "help" from the banshee ML?
<didrocks> (maybe you answered, I haven't read my email still)
<RAOF> I need to investigate why I don't appear to be getting any mail from the banshee ML.  Otherwise, I would have :)
<TheMuso> Quick question. What program is used to design/edit .ui files for GTK apps?
<didrocks> RAOF: oh ok, let me pastebin it, one sec
<didrocks> TheMuso: glade
<TheMuso> Oh ok its still glade, thanks.
<didrocks> yeah, it doesn't use libglade but gtkbuilder, but the application is still glade :)
<TheMuso> ok
<didrocks> RAOF: this is this thread: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/banshee-list/2010-June/msg00069.html
<didrocks> RAOF: I have pending changes, maybe I should merge it in the ubuntu package first?
<didrocks> RAOF: btw, is there a good way to enable a plugin by default?
<RAOF> didrocks: From memory there's a key you can flip to âtrueâ in the .addin.xml
<didrocks> RAOF: ok, it's in the xml file, I've seen that. I was wondering of a gconf key to avoid a patch, but well :)
<fta2> didrocks, evo crashed several times when idle
<fta2> somewhere deep in pango/gtk
<didrocks> fta2: it seems you really have no luck, a lot of people I know using maverick and using it just have it crashing on some emails (most of time, event update). I have runned it full day before A1 and don't have those crashers tooâ¦
<didrocks> fta2: stacktrace and report upstream is the easiest way for now as they are preparing .3
<pitti> Good morning
<fta2> didrocks, from experience, upstream doesn't care enough
<seb128> hello
<didrocks> hey pitti, salut seb128
<seb128> hey there
<seb128> lut didrocks, pitti
<seb128> didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> seb128: I'm fine thanks, they shut down the "automatic advertisement panel" in the wall next to my bedroom and making a lot of noise since a week. Easier to sleep well :-)
<seb128> nice
<didrocks> and you?
<seb128> didrocks, could you do the evince and the brasero updates when you have time?
<seb128> no hurry, quite some sru are already in the queue
<didrocks> seb128: ok, maybe not today, but, we'll see how things go :)
<seb128> didrocks, ie just add those to your list for the week
<seb128> right, no hurry
<didrocks> added :-)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, seb128
<seb128> didrocks, then I think I will stop bothering you with srus
<pitti> seb128: early for you :)
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I've people measuring my flat right now
<seb128> they are rewritting the paper which describes the building rules and need to know what % of the building each flat has
<didrocks> oh oh, that was the answer for the early connection:-)
<seb128> hum, they are done, I will go out to buy some coffee, back in half an hour
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy
<seb128> robert_ancell, not sure if you have seen the other day but the debian guys were asking if the gobject-introspection diff you added is really required,they said those files should not be installed by default
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> ok, going, bbl
<robert_ancell> hi, bye!
<didrocks> bye robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> didrocks, no, that was for seb, he pings me and dissapears :)
<didrocks> oh ok ;)
<robert_ancell> why are you guys here early?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I'm more or less there approximately at this hour everyday :-)
<RAOF> Dear lord my x200's LCD is stupendously blue-shifted when uncalibrated.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, still here? Can you sponsor metacity?
<robert_ancell> desrt, ping
<seb128> re
<lifeless> RAOF: nice
<lifeless> RAOF: how much slower does it go ?
<RAOF> lifeless: About .6c
<lifeless> \o/
<lifeless> (you got the joke, and got it the right way around :))
<RAOF> :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, saw that.  Those files need to be packaged somewhere so python-gi can run make check, or python-gi needs to be modified
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, so it's only a testsuite thing, maybe they should be in a new binary or something
<seb128> robert_ancell, I will discuss that with the debian guys
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you otherwise?
<robert_ancell> good.  Fixing up debhelper to do the gsettings stuff.  I've updated my main desktop to maverick now so will properly start stressing dconf
<robert_ancell> seb128, did you have a look at the compiz packaging?
<seb128> robert_ancell, nice, I plan to do that this week as well
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, but I can do that today
<robert_ancell> cool, please sponsor metacity too
<seb128> robert_ancell, I've been busy doing 2.30.2 updates sru
<seb128> didrocks, ^ could you sponsor this one?
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw when is the next meeting for you to get upload rights? ;-)
<robert_ancell> the last meeting no-one turned up.  And they're 1am my time, I've asked if I can have it earlier but no response
<robert_ancell> I think there's one tonight?
<didrocks> I'll have a look at metacity, right
<seb128> robert_ancell, dunno but I can try to check
<seb128> robert_ancell, speaking about GNOME3, do you think we should try to get gtkapplication in 2.22? would make easier to build new versions on gtk2
<seb128> robert_ancell, upstream would be nice but otherwise we can maybe backport that to our gtk?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I haven't looked at the code yet, but my guess is it should be easy to port?  I think we should do it if that is the case
<seb128> robert_ancell, not sure how busy is your todolist, would you be interest by looking to that when you have a free slot?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yup, I'll take that
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, don't forget to write your dconf mir as well btw, it's your remaining alpha2 workitem ;-)
<robert_ancell> I just did it
<seb128> waouh
<robert_ancell> bug #597562
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 597562 in d-conf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] d-conf (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597562
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, so we can get that promoted when something starts recommending or depending on it
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, I think we now need glib-compile-schemas always installed, what binary package should it go in?  I don't want to put it in glib2.0-0 as it's not strictly required for runtime, but I don't want to put it in glib2.0-bin as that would drag in some other unneeded binaries
<seb128> robert_ancell, is there any system where -bin will not be installed?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I would put it in -bin
<robert_ancell> I didn't have it installed, and nothing depends on it currently
<robert_ancell> it contains: gio-querymodules (?), gsettings (gconftool equivalent) and gdbus (?)
<didrocks> robert_ancell: from my last merge from debian you added rules in debian/rules but didn't commented that in the changelog, is it on purpose?
<robert_ancell> didrocks, whoops, I've pushed an update
<didrocks> robert_ancell: sweet, thanks (and think to use UNRELEASED) :)
<robert_ancell> didrocks, well, I did release it, then forgot it's not an ubuntu-desktop pacakge
<didrocks> robert_ancell: oh? so, debcommit -r for tagging (previous version was untagged too) :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, the first one is required for everything using gio, lazy loading depends on that
<robert_ancell> seb128, ok, I'll move it to -bin
<seb128> robert_ancell, rather everything installing a .so in /usr/lib/gio
<seb128> robert_ancell, but we need that for registering those, so we can be pretty sure -bin will be installed
<robert_ancell> oh, I read rdepends wrong, libglib2.0-0 recommends it so it must be installed
<robert_ancell> ok, will update
<seb128> thanks
<robert_ancell> seb128, can you sponsor the new glib?
<seb128> robert_ancell, yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, why the
<seb128> +          libglib2.0-dev (<< 2.25.2)
<seb128> robert_ancell, you also want to change the control.in not the control
<robert_ancell> seb128, forgot to push the commit that did that, it's pushed now
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, seems fine now
<robert_ancell> I always stuff that up... I wish we didn't have to commit built files like that
<seb128> I wish we didn't have to build file like that
<fta2> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/453797/
<pitti> robert_ancell: debian/control and debian/rules are pretty much the only two files which _must_ exist in a source package ;)
<pitti> but control.in is unnerving indeed, I keep tripping over it as well
<seb128> pitti, nowadays there is a warning in the control to say it's autogenerated ;-)
<seb128> but still, right
<pitti> right, that bit is nice
<pitti> debclean adds it automatically while updating control
<didrocks> fta2: doesn't seem really obvious to me (and furthemore that I don't reproduce it there), you say it's when you are idled as well? Maybe, try to deactivate the calendar if you use it and MAPI extension if you use them
<seb128> pitti, still working on gnome-panel?
<pitti> seb128: no, I'm done
<seb128> pitti, I'm about to update it to 2.30.2 so checking if you still do changes before doing that
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<pitti> cheers
<pitti> seb128: some cleanup was in order :)
<seb128> indeed!
<seb128> it's the nice thing after the lts
<seb128> you can clean a bunch of hacks ;-)
<pitti> didrocks: it seems that on curren unity, g-s-d still loads the background image; wasn't unity doing that as well?
<pitti> i. e. do we load it twice now?
<alf__> didrocks: Hi! Did you get a chance to look at my clutter latest-with-eglx and clutter add-symbols branches?
<didrocks> pitti: g-s-d is drawing is in the background and unity is copying it to its actor
<pitti> didrocks: ah, thanks
<didrocks> alf__: no, too much stuff right now, promess, it's on my list for this week :) (probably after freeze)
<alf__> didrocks: No problem, thanks!
<didrocks> alf__: I'll ping you in any case :)
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: shouldn't indicator-applet{,-session} depend on something like gnome-panel | unity instead of just gnome-panel?
<pitti> seems UNE is pulling in gnome-{applets,panel} and libgweather etc. just for this
<seb128> pitti, the indicators do depends on indicator-applet | indicator-renderer
<seb128> pitti, unity provides indicator-renderer
<pitti> ok, not in the lucid version then
<seb128> we had some bugs
<didrocks> should be ok in maverick now
<pitti> ok, thanks; I'll backport that then
<didrocks> but we still have gnome-panel in UNE CD, didn't have the time to investigate the cause
<seb128> pitti, bug #595862
<pitti> didrocks: gnome-session depends on it; that seems not justified?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595862 in indicator-me (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Fix remaining dependency issues (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595862
<didrocks> pitti: hum, I don't know why there is that dep, should be a reason
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: because it's in the required components list
<didrocks> pitti: also, I'm not sure we want to remove it, as there is still the GNOME session present in GDM
<seb128> ie the gconf key for things to start with the session
<didrocks> oh right, the gconf setting we override in unity
<seb128> I guess it could be a recommends
<seb128> ie Recommends: gnome-panel | unity
<didrocks> but still, we maybe want a gnome-panel or forbid to use the GNOME session in GDM unless we have something to run :)
<pitti> didrocks: right, but it seems wrong for gnome-session to depend on it
<didrocks> pitti: sure, alternatively depending on unity sounds good
<didrocks> (well, recommend)
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> cheers
<seb128> pitti, well gnome-session try to run gnome-panel so it should be installed, but recommends woulkd do
<pitti> seb128: oh, good point
<pitti> but don't we use it for unity as well?
<seb128> <seb128> I guess it could be a recommends
<seb128>  ie Recommends: gnome-panel | unity
<pitti> right
<pitti> doing that then, thanks
<seb128> thanks
<huats> morning
<pitti> didrocks: hm, no Vcs-Bzr: in unity? are we using the lp:ubuntu/unity thing now?
<didrocks> pitti: not yet, it's my long term plan, but we have to update the hudson recipe for this
<didrocks> pitti: for now, you will find everything in ~unity-team
<pitti> didrocks: just asking because indicator-applet-session still depends on gnome-panel in current bzr
<pitti> and I wanted to check the provides in unity
<pitti> didrocks: thanks, checking out that
<didrocks> pitti: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/packaging/annotate/head:/debian/control
<didrocks> Provides: indicator-renderer,
<pitti> right, pulling that one
<pitti> didrocks: ok, I'll add that to the i-a-s dependencies then, cheers!
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hello, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, i'm good thanks (but busy). how are you?
<chrisccoulson> did you see we have a firefox release now? ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yes, so checking with you what is planned next now
<chrisccoulson> i discussed it with jdstrand last night, and there don't appear to be any really critical CVE's, so we're going to try and push all releases out at the same time
<chrisccoulson> but there are still some blockers on that
<seb128> is there any reason to not upload to maverick now to start?
<chrisccoulson> the first one being that the icedtea plugin in jaunty and karmic don't work in the new version of firefox
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i will probably upload to maverick shortly
<seb128> ok, nice
<seb128> what is the rational to block the lucid update on jaunty and karmic issues?
<seb128> is uploading everything in one go making cve work easier?
<chrisccoulson> i think it's less work for jdstrand (he only has to do one USN then)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> and do we have any estimation how much work it will take to resolve the blockers?
<seb128> do you need some help on those?
<chrisccoulson> we're discussing what to do with openjdk via e-mail at the moment, and i'll talk to jdstrand again once he's back online
<chrisccoulson> the other blocker was epiphany, but i'm about to upload a fix for that
<chrisccoulson> we've abandoned backporting the webkit version for now, as it's too buggy
<chrisccoulson> but the current version failed to start completely after the upgrade
<seb128> hum ok
<seb128> I will let you work for now
<chrisccoulson> but that's fixed now ;)
<seb128> I'm not convinced we should block lucid updates for jaunty icedtea issues or epiphany bugs in older versions
<seb128> but we can discuss that later on when jdstrand is online
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> TheMuso, hi
<seb128> TheMuso, you have a work items for alpha2 on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-wallpaper-competition, is that still on track?
<tseliot> james_w: is it possible to prevent bzr from downloading some (new) files when performing a merge? This would be useful when I merge from lp:ubuntu/nvidia-graphics-drivers but I don't want to download the binary blobs
 * tseliot -> lunch
<james_w> tseliot: no, there's not
<tseliot> james_w: do you know if git has such feature?
<tseliot> e.g. the ignore file
<james_w> I don't think so
<tseliot> ok, thanks
<TheMuso> seb128: I need to talk to/work with Connor for that, I'll send him an email tomorrow morning when I am more awake to chase it up.
<seb128> TheMuso, hey, ok, thanks
<ogra> seb128, did dyfet talk to you about gobject-introspection ? i took a short look just now and to me it seems that the fix for bug 510426 broke it on armel
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 510426 in gobject-introspection (Debian) (and 1 other project) "Everything-1.0.typelib not built in libgirepository1.0-dev (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510426
<seb128> ogra, no he didn't
<ogra> 0.6.12-1 built successfully, 0.6.12-1ubuntu1 ftbfs
<seb128> ogra, it's only a .install change
<seb128> I doubt it break the build
<ogra> well, the failure is in the checks
<seb128> it likely broke because of some other library which got updated in between
<ogra> you add new .typelib files
<seb128> the checks are made before the dh_install run
<seb128> no?
<seb128> there is no dh_install in the build log
<ogra> oh, right, weird
<seb128> I fail to see how a .install change would break it
<seb128> I think it's due a change in a build-depends
<ogra> yeah, likely
<qense> Does anyone know whether Conor Curran is on IRC and what his nick name is?
<jpds> qense: ronoc.
<qense> jpds: Ok, thanks.
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, I just wrote the MIR for zg and uploaded 0.4.0 into maverick (bug #597687). We should have it promoted for next unity release (file place will use it)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 597687 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu) "[MIR] zeitgeist (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597687
<seb128> didrocks, I guess we will keep promoting things and targetting the mir bugs for beta
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'll have a tour now to all MIR to ensure they are targeted to beta
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> yw
<didrocks> the 3 others packages are ready and MIR are written. Just waiting next release and we are all set :)
<seb128> didrocks, you want me to review those already now?
<didrocks> seb128: sure, one sec, putting you a list ready
<seb128> thanks
<qense> davidbarth: I'm kind of on Sound Menu support for Banshee right now. Alex Launi said he might work on it when I asked about MPRIS support in Banshee. If not, I'll look if anyone else is doing it and otherwise I could give it a try myself. When that's done I'll write a plugin to register Banshee with the Ayatana server.
<qense> Which seems fairly simple, judging from the Rhythmbox patch.
<qense> libindicate has already got C# bindings.
<didrocks> seb128: thank to you :)
<didrocks> qense: sounds great ;) talking about that, I've assigned you a bug report (hyperair told me that you would agree), about the current indicator being broken in maverick (even with yesterday's rebuild). If you can have a look, no hurry though :)
<qense> didrocks: Even with the rebuild?
<qense> I'm afraid I marked that bug as a duplicate.
<qense> Are you sure the update is installed?
<didrocks> qense: oh really? let me look (it was a few hours ago)
<qense> You need 1.6.1
<qense> My system still has 1.6.0, so I guess it's not on all mirrors yet.
<qense> and I'm using the main archives
<didrocks> qense: oh? 1.6.1, ok, forget it for now so :)
<didrocks> sorry for the trouble, I'll reopen it if needed
<qense> didrocks: Not a problem, thank you for spending time on it!
<davidbarth> qense: ah, that'd be great
<didrocks> qense: yw, I really hope it will be easy for you to achieve the soundmenu integration :)
<davidbarth> ronoc: cool, you're there; qense is interested in working on the banshee integration
<qense> By the way, Bernard just pointed me at what seems to be an existing MPRIS plugin under development.
<ronoc> davidbarth: great
<ronoc> qense: excellent, have you taken a look at the libindicate registration
<qense> ronoc: You just need MPRIS and a registration?
<qense> ronoc: I did look at your Rhythmbxo aptch.
<ronoc> qense: pretty much
<qense> http://gitorious.org/~bl8/banshee/bl8-clone/commits/mpris
<qense> It's not in HEAD yet, but it is something.
<qense> This is the bug report: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570841
<ubot2> Gnome bug 570841 in general "Support the MPRIS D-Bus interface" [Normal,New]
<ronoc> qense: there is a version two of the spec coming up which will support playlists etc but for now mpris v1 will also be supported
<qense> Bertrand said he was working to get v2 support.
<bl8> ronoc: Hey, you might also be interested in this : http://ubuntuone.com/p/7X5/ ;)
<qense> He's even here!
<qense> and it is already done :P
<qense> I don't even have to do anything anymore now. Bertrand has done it already.
<ronoc> qense: I have to add a few more things to the registration mechanism but it ain't complicated
<ronoc> bl8: good stuff!
<ronoc> qense, bl8: just need to take a quick lunch - will brb
<qense> bl8: So basically you're almost done now with Sound Menu support?
<qense> bl8: Where will the Ayatana registration code go? In a separate extension in the main Banshee developer repository?
<qense> bl8: Also: what should we do with Banshee.AppIndicator in the community extensions? Remove it or keep it for people that still want to use it?
<bl8> qense: I don't really know, I'm still a bit fuzzy on how this will all fit together
<qense> ok
<qense> Lucid won't ship the Sound Menu, but it does ship Banshee.AppIndicator, so it might be a good idea to keep it around for that.
<qense> Just to be able to fix bugs, etc.
<bl8> For now I've created a new SoundMenu extension in the community extensions repo
<qense> ok
<bl8> qense: http://gitorious.org/banshee-community-extensions/banshee-community-extensions/commits/soundmenu
<qense> thanks
<qense> bl8: We should get this in Maverick ASAP so it can be tested. How stable do you reckon the MPRIS and SoundMenu extensions are?
<bl8> qense: MPRIS has a few bits missing, and I'm sure sure about some parts of it. SoundMenu doesn't do anything interesting for now, just registers
<qense> That's all what the Banshee.SoundMenu equivalent for Rhythmbox does as well for now, so that's not a problem.
<qense> but it is easy to make sure it works correctly.
<tseliot> james_w: wouldn't adding ignore patterns (.bzrignore) solve my problem?
<james_w> tseliot: not if the files are versioned
<tseliot> james_w: they can be named NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-256.25.run, etc. but I can use a pattern such as NVIDIA-Linux*.run . Wouldn't this work?
<james_w> tseliot: if bzr versions the files then it has to copy them around. .bzrignore is just to tell bzr what it shouldn't automatically version when you run "bzr add"
<tseliot> james_w: aah, I see your point now. Too bad
<tseliot> james_w: so, in my case, I guess I'll have to merge from lp:ubuntu/nvidia-graphics-drivers, remove the binaries, commit and push to my branch
<james_w> tseliot: yes
<james_w> you will still have the binaries in the history and so still push them around, but you won't see them in your branch any more
<tseliot> james_w: err... my main problem is a rather low upload bandwidth
<ronoc> qense, bl8: there is a little more additions to the registration to be added to allow the application to be started if is not running from the menu. I will do a release tomorrow which hopefully will have this libindicate stuff implemented, we can upgrade and test all of this early next week from the client side
<tseliot> i.e. I'd like not to upload 100 Mb every time the driver is updated and I need to sync my branch with Ubuntu's
<qense> ronoc: Sounds great.
<qense> bl8: It seems you've arranged everything already. However, if you do happen to need some help, I'd be happy to help you.
<ronoc> qense, bl8: I know mirsal was putting the finishing touches to the spec for mpris v2 over last w/end. I have yet to catch up with him this week though. Will ping you once I know more.
<qense> ok
<jcastro> htorque: can you update and see if you are still getting checkmarks instead of dots?
<htorque> jcastro: 0.2.10-0ubuntu1?
<htorque> jcastro: unity
<jcastro> 0.0.7 of appmenu-gtk and 0.0.6 of indicator-appmenu
<htorque> jcastro: they are up-to-date, will check some apps
<htorque> jcastro: hm, still present in eg. gnome-system-monitor, cheese
<jcastro> indeed, seems to work in gedit for me
<htorque> in gedit "View > Highlight Mode" do you see a dot next to "Plain Text"?
<jcastro> yup
<htorque> i don't
<seb128> rodrigo_, you don't like notify-osd then? ;-)
<kenvandine> htorque, works in gedit for me but not gnome-terminal
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, I don't :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, reading your comment about not forgetting actions on notifications
<kenvandine> htorque, ignore me... :) was confused with submenus
<kenvandine> i do not see a dot
<htorque> kenvandine, i cannot access any submenu, it just pops up, no highlight - will try a clean maverick install later
<rodrigo_> seb128, for some notifications, just displaying a message, it's ok, but not for other cases
<rodrigo_> seb128, like for instance what we want to do on u1 when the user runs out of space on the cloud
<rodrigo_> seb128, we've gone to the show-a-dialog-with-buttons route because of that
<rodrigo_> and the dialog is bad also, so a notification with actions would solve it
<kenvandine> actually i do see a dot... plain text just wasn't selected
<kenvandine> htorque, in the submenu
<kenvandine> htorque, which i get in gedit, but not gnome-terminal
<seb128> rodrigo_, you should talk to mpt or the design team
<htorque> kenvandine, in gnome-terminal most submenus are broken here
<jcastro> kenvandine: me too
<seb128> rodrigo_, they believe that actions in bubble are wrong for this because they go away and you might miss those if you don't watch the screen for a few seconds
<seb128> rodrigo_, what is wrong with opening a dialog?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, bratsche has something we want to use for those kinds of things, but i don't think it is ready
<kenvandine> morphing windows
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, it just shows up in the user's face when doing something unrelated
<rodrigo_> also, notifications with actions could have the option to stay there, until the user has selected an action
<seb128> rodrigo_, it should not, focus prevention should be working and it should go background and claim for attention in the taskbar
<bratsche> rodrigo_: Yeah, mpt designed a morphing message dialog which I have code for.  It's not merged in yet but it will be soon.  You're welcome to take a peek at it to see if it suits your purposes.
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, then they would not be different from a dialog...
 * htorque is off for a maverick install ;-)
<rodrigo_> bratsche, oh, yes, where can I see it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, they will, since they don't show up in the middle of the screen
<rodrigo_> or even better, there might be just an icon flashing asking for user's attention, rather than leaving the notification in the screen
<bratsche> rodrigo_: There are a couple things it's not doing correctly yet.. but I've got a branch here: lp:~bratsche/ido/messagedialog
<rodrigo_> bratsche, ok, looking
<bratsche> rodrigo_: If it's useful to you I'll go ahead and get it merged into trunk asap and fix up the minor issues next.
<bratsche> rodrigo_: mpt's specification is on here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotificationDesignGuidelines
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you read the notify-osd design document?
<seb128> what bratsche said
<rodrigo_> seb128, no
<seb128> rodrigo_, read the page bratsche just indicated
<rodrigo_> bratsche, seb128: the morphing windows look better, yeah
<seb128> ;-)
<rodrigo_> but they'll still show up in the middle of the screen?
<rodrigo_> I mean for notifications from apps without a parent window?
<bratsche> rodrigo_: They'll show up wherever a normal dialog would I guess.  Which is partly up to the WM I think?
<htorque> jcastro: fresh maverick install and i don't see a bullet point in gedit (nor do submenus work)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pedro_, ola! ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, salut !
<seb128> pedro_, could you help validating the gtk and gdm sru updates?
<seb128> mvo, hey
<mvo> hey
<seb128> mvo, do you have facilities to test karmic or lucid upgrades? the current gtk sru fixes a file conflict issue, I'm trying to find somebody to validate it
<seb128> mvo, where file conflicts is a files which moved from a binary to an another one
<seb128> mvo, bug #574837
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 574837 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "package libgtk2.0-dev 2.20.0-0ubuntu4 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gir-1.0/GdkPixbuf-2.0.gir', which is also in package gobject-introspection-repository 0:0.6.5-0ubuntu1 (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574837
<asac> RAOF: sorry, i need to talk to you about the the X11 arm stack again ... i have new insights which you might better understand than me ;) ... will try to catch you this night (your morning)
<seb128> mvo, no hurry, but I guess you have setups to test upgrades, so you could check that one in the next days... ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, yeap, I'll have a look at least for the regression part of most of those bugs
<mvo> seb128: I can run a test for this, sure
<didrocks> slomo: I've synced vala, thanks :)
<seb128> mvo, danke!
<mvo> seb128: karmic -> lucid ?
<seb128> mvo, yes
<mvo> seb128: default install? or anything special?
<seb128> mvo, with gobject-introspection-repository and libgtk2.0-dev installed
<seb128> mvo, karmic with those
<seb128> mvo, upgrade to lucid
<seb128> mvo, it should have issue without the update and work fine with the lucid-proposed version
<didrocks> hum, another file that moved twice during a cycle :/
 * didrocks hides
<seb128> didrocks, hehe ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: oh, it it the same than the typelib one?
<seb128> mvo, on another note, if you feel like doing sponsoring robert_ancell merged compiz with debian and updated the vcs
<didrocks> maybe, the fix was ony for typelib, not for the -dev
<mvo> seb128: oh, nice
<seb128> didrocks, right
<seb128> mvo, robert_ancell is made of awesome if you didn't know ;-)
<seb128> mvo, he did a lot of non trivial desktop merges nobody dared to touch for cycles ;-)
<mvo> seb128: nice :) if he updates 0.8.4 to 0.8.6 too in compiz, he gets a gold star from me
<seb128> let's see ;-)
<mvo> but in the meantime I'm happy to sponsor the 0.8.4 one
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I prefer to have somebody who has a clue about compiz to check it
<seb128> I'm scared to screw with abi between compiz and some of the compiz-* other sources ;-)
<mvo> :)
<seb128> pedro_, thanks!
<seb128> pedro_, I've another round of sru waiting in the queue but everybody seems busy in the sru team
<seb128> pedro_, once those are done I think I will move to maverick full time and stop bothering your with sru testing ;-)
<pedro_> pedro_, ah no worries, I'd like to test those, so keep them coming  ;-))
<seb128> pedro_, stop talking to yourself ;-)
<pedro_> hehe
<seb128> pedro_, thanks!
<pedro_> btw would be nice to get an SRU on bug 370860
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 370860 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "rhythmbox can't play mms radio (affects: 14) (dups: 1) (heat: 74)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/370860
<pedro_> not sure if the patch is too aggressive to be included though
<seb128> pedro_, there is already one sru waiting for rhythmbox in the queue but maybe for the next one
<seb128> pedro_, would require testing and to backport the crasher fix mentioned in recent comments as well
<pedro_> seb128, right those two commits needs to be included
<pedro_> seb128, thanks for looking into it ;-)
<seb128> you're welcome
<asac> odd
<asac> Now running lintian...
<asac> gzip: stdout: Broken pipe
<asac> dpkg-source: error: gunzip gave error exit status 1
<asac> internal error: dpkg-source -x failed with status
<asac> internal error: 29
<asac> warning: collect info unpacked about package librtcom-telepathy-glib failed
<asac> anyone as seen this? it happens when doing a debuild -S
<asac> ;)
<asac> manually using dpkg-source -x works
<didrocks> seb128: it seems that walters told that he will probably backport GtkApplication to gtk2
<mclasen> not likely
<seb128> mclasen, any reason to not if somebody does the work?
<seb128> mclasen, would make easier for software writers to allow their code to build on gtk2 or gtk3
<mclasen> seb128: no point in 3.0 if people insist on adding stuff to 2.x
<mclasen> 2.x is closed for features, basically
<seb128> the point of 3 is to allow cleaning things and breaking compatibility
<mclasen> I'm not interested in having code build against both 2 and 3, longterm
<seb128> but fair enough
<seb128> well there will be a transition period so it would be nicer to deal but letting some flexibility to software writers while they port their code
<didrocks> pitti: would you have an idea on this vala FTBFS: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50807981/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.vala_0.9.2-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz seems still related to dbus (we are using LD_PRELOAD= to avoid using fakeroot)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, never saw that one; does it fail locally as well in a chroot or pbuilder?
<didrocks> pitti: only in soyuz, not in a pbuilder
<didrocks> pitti: do you think it's a soyuz hiccup or it tries to create a socket < 1024?
<pitti> didrocks: perhaps add some debugging (strace, etc.) and upload to a PPA to see the log?
<pitti> didrocks: shouldn't be; it's certainly a dbus unix socket, and you build as normal user as well, I guess
<pitti> good night everyone! have to leave
<didrocks> ok, I'll try to strace the testsuite
<didrocks> thanks pitti
<didrocks> enjoy your evening
<and471> has anyone had any success with vala/genie and appindicator?
<dobey> pitti: hi :)
<dobey> err, nevermind
 * dobey sees he left
<seb128> pedro_, bug #403441
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 403441 in gdm (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "gdm-simple-slave crashed with signal 5 in g_return_if_fail_warning() (affects: 49) (dups: 8) (heat: 246)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403441
<seb128> that one just confirm gdm is still working
<seb128> I doubt somebody will have the crash reliably to confirm the fix there
<pedro_> seb128, yeah , adding a comment to it now
<seb128> pedro_, thanks
<seb128> so gdm is green now ;-)
<pedro_> \o/
<kenvandine> so apparently gwibber being in ubuntu by default has caused some problems... too much usage so facebook is throttling gwibber accross all users!
<artir> kenvandine: well, ubuntu being that popular are great news :)
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<kenvandine> but now we need to figure out how to handle it :)
<artir> tell facebook to get better servers XD
<artir> i can only think of reducing the frequency of pulling updates down
<kenvandine> it isn't really updates
<kenvandine> it is fql queries... which are mostly auth and images
<kenvandine> we might need to reduce the pulls for images
<kenvandine> we've had 579 minutes just today that facebook has been rejecting queries for facebook
<kenvandine> for gwibber that is
<kenvandine> the only place where users ever notice is in gwibber-accounts, adding a new facebook account requires that query to succeed
<kenvandine> sigh
<seb128> re
<RAOF> asac: Good evening/morning :)
<asac> RAOF: hey ;)
<RAOF> What's new? :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-24
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Did metacity get sponsored? If not, I'll take care of it this morning.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, didrocks did it, thanks
<TheMuso> np
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor compiz-fusion-plugins-main from lp:~compiz/compcomm-plugins-main/ubuntu
<TheMuso> sure
<robert_ancell> do you have any idea why debian/install stopped working (and now requires debian/tmp in there)?
<TheMuso> not without looking deeper into the package history
<robert_ancell> what is the "correct" way - should all install files have debian/tmp ?
<TheMuso> As far as I understand things, if there are multiple packages being created from one source package, all files go into debian/tmp and are copied to their apropriate packages from there.
<ajmitch> that sort of thing can depend on debhelper compat level
<RAOF> dh_install in compat mode 7 will automatically look in debian/tmp.
<ajmitch> ^^ what he said
<robert_ancell> ah, thanks.  It must have transitioned to 7
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thansk
 * TheMuso must admit he is a little distracted by today's Australian political machinations.
<TheMuso> And, disturbed.
<TheMuso> macinations even
<NCommander> anyone around who can look at a gobjection-inspection patch?
<micahg> NCommander: would you happen to know what source the gnome shutdown dialog is in?
<NCommander> micahg: gnome-session I think
<NCommander> been awhile since I looked
<micahg> NCommander: k, thanks
<RAOF> Gah!  Damn you launchpad.  Don't oops on bug submission.
<RAOF> Thank you Chromium, and your delicious form-saving back button.
<lamalex> <3
<lamalex> RAOF: do you need any help upstreaming those f-spot patches?
<lamalex> or is that pretty much good
<RAOF> Plenty of bugs for indicator-network!
<lifeless> RAOF: hah
<RAOF> But my UltraBaseâ¢ has arrived, and displayport is pleasantly painless.
<lifeless> ooh
<lifeless> hey
<RAOF> I'm not entirely sure how people actually _use_ VGA outputs.  Or maybe my cable is made of rusty iron.
<lifeless> can you do dual hdmi or whatever it is the cinema displays need, on an x201s with UltraBase ?
<lifeless> RAOF: rusty iron.
<lifeless> RAOF: I will say that I hate vga + LCD. But my 21" philips professional CRT kicks arse.
<RAOF> I haven't had a CRT for over a decade.
<RAOF> Actually, that's not quite true.  I picked one up from the side of the road to test VGA output at one point :)
<RAOF> lifeless: Displayport can certainly push out the needed bandwith for your choice of insanely sized monitor.  I'm fairly sure the software will also be up to it.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Does it also put audio out via displayport?
<RAOF> I don't know.  The displayport protocol certainly allows for that, but I don't have anything that accepts DP audio.
<RAOF> The DP protocol is actually rather freaky.  You can do USB over DP if you feel like having a USB hub in your monitor.
<dholbach> hey guys
<dholbach> micahg proposed to get gjs rebuilt (bug 597944) for gnome-shell
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 597944 in gjs (Ubuntu) "libgjs needs a rebuild for xulrunner-1.9.2.4 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597944
<dholbach> I wanted to sponsor it, but for me it seems to FTBFS
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/454309/
<dholbach> hey seb128
<dholbach> salut mon ami - comment Ã§a va?
<seb128> hello dholbach
<seb128> dholbach, ca va bien merci, et toi ?
<dholbach> ca va bien aussi :)
<seb128> dholbach, qu'est-ce qui t'amÃ¨ne chez nous ? un bug de nouveau ? ;-)
<dholbach> micahg proposed to get gjs rebuilt (bug 597944) for gnome-shell
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 597944 in gjs (Ubuntu) "libgjs needs a rebuild for xulrunner-1.9.2.4 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597944
<dholbach> I wanted to sponsor it, but for me it seems to FTBFS
<dholbach> http://paste.ubuntu.com/454309/
<dholbach> anything I should be doing about it? (seems he went to bed now)
<dholbach> I dunno if it was important or urgent or anything
<seb128> dholbach, I was just reading my email, got one from him about that
<dholbach> ah ok, well, I guess I just update his bug then
<seb128> dholbach, no, don't bother I meant to have chrisccoulson to give a try to it today or maybe do the merge from debian
<seb128> they have a new version of gjs there
<dholbach> ah, gotcha
<seb128> dholbach, thanks for asking about it though ;-)
<dholbach> yeah, I didn't know if it was important in any way
<seb128> it's not
<seb128> it's required to have gnome-shell new version to build
<dholbach> ah ok
<seb128> but it's not something we rely on, it's in universe
<seb128> so if it takes a few extra days that's not an issue
<dholbach> alrightie
<didrocks> good morning
<dholbach> seb128: je suis prÃ¨s de toi maintenant :)
<didrocks> (seems like I overslept :))
<seb128> lut didrocks, nice!
<didrocks> salut seb128 :)
<seb128> dholbach, oh ? en vacances ?
<ogra> seb128, does that look sane to you ? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50829991/gobject-introspection.debdiff
<robert_ancell> does anyone know how to make dpkg triggers work?  I have a working dh_gsettings, but I think I should reimplement as a trigger
<ogra> (i know its just a workaround)
<dholbach> seb128: non, pas des vacances, mais je suis Ã  TrÃ¨ves :)
<dholbach> seb128: visiter mes parents
<ogra> robert_ancell, create debian/<binary package>.triggers
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I've had a look at them before, although I'm a bit hazy.
<seb128> ogra, I'm not sure why that's required on arm and not other archs
<seb128> ogra, could you open an upstream bug about it maybe to get their comments?
<seb128> robert_ancell, you can take gconf or gnome-menus as an example
<robert_ancell> ogra, and where do I implement the trigger script?
<seb128> robert_ancell, you need a .trigger and a trigger case in the postinst
<seb128> robert_ancell, the postinst snippet has the code to run
<ogra> seb128, will do, there is bug 597947 as downstream one already though
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 597947 in gobject-introspection (Ubuntu) "ARM FTBFS fix (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597947
<robert_ancell> seb128, so the code is shared between all packages?
<seb128> robert_ancell, editor /var/lib/dpkg/info/shared-mime-info.postinst
<seb128> robert_ancell, see the triggered case
<seb128> robert_ancell, see /var/lib/dpkg/info/shared-mime-info.triggers to register what trigger the triggers
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yesterday, I had a look at metacity patches and saw you added "Description ? Authors?" to most of them. I've added those to 03_strict_focus.patch: if you google for META_FOCUS_MODE_STRICT, you'll find an IRC conversation between seb128 and lamont from Januay 2005 :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, so you basically want a .triggers with your directory listed
<seb128> robert_ancell, and the posting to run the update command in the triggered case
<seb128> posting -> postinst
<robert_ancell> oh, so I make these changes in libglib2.0-bin, and then once you have the new version installed any program that touches files in /usr/share/glib2.0/schemas will trigger the script in libglib2.0-bin?
<seb128> didrocks, did you see my comment about the "Desk" naming? can you drop those in the next upload
<seb128> robert_ancell, right
<robert_ancell> much easier than modifying debhelper/cdbs :)
<seb128> ;-)
<ogra> seb128, would you accept the patch as a temp. workaround at least ?
<seb128> robert_ancell, could you have a quick review of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50829991/gobject-introspection.debdiff
<mvo> robert_ancell: hi, I just look over the compiz merge diff. I'm sure that was a lot of work, good job! some nitpicking. i would really prefer to keep the old ubuntu changelogs, that should be trivial with dpkg-mergechangelogs. it also brings back compiz-gtk and remove compiz-dbg. I don't mind dropping compiz-dbg, but I don't think we need compiz-gtk (in addition to compiz-gnome). I have no strong opinion here though
<didrocks> seb128: not on #ubuntu-desktop?
<seb128> didrocks, no
<didrocks> still, didn't finish to backlog everything :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, so "Desk" is a mistake, we dropped those changes from libwnck in lucid
<robert_ancell> mvo, I didn't realise at the time that we'd removed compiz-gtk.  Why do you want the old changelogs?  I think they just make it more confusing to work out what has changed
<seb128> didrocks, your changelog explains why some people still get naming issues
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't notice the wms had changes for that
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I will revert in mutter and in metacity so
<seb128> didrocks, don't do an upload for that but next time you touch those...
<mvo> robert_ancell: I think in the compiz case the old changelogs have a lot of useful information about the patches we added, who did it and when
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> mvo, launchpad has the upload history as well
<didrocks> seb128: I have to do an upload with the papercut about Alt + tab and copy/paste
<seb128> I will not argue about those
<seb128> but I don't like keeping tons of useless changelog entries
<mvo> robert_ancell: I can see that its not that useful for a package that is less heavily patched (e.g. plugins-main). but for compiz I think there is some value
<seb128> it makes merges harder and takes CD space
<mvo> seb128: I disagree that they are useless
<mvo> seb128: and dpkg-mergechangelogs should make the merge trivial
<seb128> ok, fair enough
<seb128> as said I will not argue I know other people have other opinions
<robert_ancell> mvo, I moved all the patch info to patch headers
<seb128> we never kept those for desktop packages
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
<didrocks> hey pitti
<mvo> robert_ancell: yeah, that is a good thing! it appears that they also all contain the version the patch was added so I'm happy
<ogra> grmbl
<ogra> silly reconnects
<seb128> ogra, I've no strong opinion about this change
<mvo> patch-header info makes me happy to, so I'm happy now and don't want changelogs anymore
<mvo> thanks :)
<seb128> I don't know enough about gobject introspection to comment
<seb128> mvo, ;-)
<seb128> see, everybody always agrees with robert_ancell in the end
<robert_ancell> :)
<seb128> I don't know how we does that
<seb128> but I need to learn from him ;-)
<mvo> heh :)
<seb128> we -> he
<ogra> robert_ancell, did you comment on the patch already (i had a reconnect)
<seb128> robert_ancell, could you give a quick ack, nack, don't know on http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50829991/gobject-introspection.debdiff ?
<robert_ancell> ogra, no, but I just read that pygi was merged into python-gobject
<mvo> robert_ancell: so about compiz-gtk - I don't mind either way, I doubt its a very useful pacakge, but you are the matinainer ;)
<robert_ancell> seb128, don't know
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<seb128> ogra, ok, feel free to upload but open a bug upstream with the build error and your workaround
<ogra> seb128, thanks a lot :)
<seb128> np, thank you for working on it
<robert_ancell> mvo, my motivation is mostly just to have the same package in Debian and Ubuntu so we can make progress twice as fast
 * ogra hugs seb128 ... also because he thinks french world cup viewers always need comforting ;)
<robert_ancell> ogra, oh, the patch seb128 just showed me?  I hadn't seen it before then
<seb128> ogra, hehe
<mvo> robert_ancell: fair enough, it looks good I will sponsor if you want
<seb128> robert_ancell, is pygi in pygobject a win, out of that making the pygi packaging work efforts somewhat wasted?
<robert_ancell> seb128, well, it meant we had a little bit of a head start in understanding pygi so that's not a bad thing
<robert_ancell> mvo, I agree we should remove the -gtk package, and then pester Debian to do the same if it's the right move
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw gdm upstream seems very active atm
<seb128> robert_ancell, we could maybe try to get some of our changes reviewed
<seb128> robert_ancell, I noticed they fixed some of the issues for which we have distro changes, next update will be interesting
<robert_ancell> seb128, they just closed the "no gdmsetup" bug
<robert_ancell> WONTFIX
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, they disagree it's the way to go, they want those options integrated in other configurations dialogs
<robert_ancell> dosen't stop you having a dialog in the mean time...
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, I stopped trying to argue with them about this though, they don't see the point for fedora and will not consider it
<robert_ancell> seb128,  was there any particular feature from newer gdm's that we want, maybe a patch candidate?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I've been backport quite some fixes to lucid
<seb128> they are doing lot of refactoring in git atm apparently on widgets loading, etc to speed things up it seems
<seb128> didrocks, btw vala fails to build on debian the same way
<seb128> didrocks, you might want to tell slomo about it
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I saw that
<didrocks> seb128: -2 as well?
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> seb128: where do you see that?
<seb128> slomo, hi
<seb128> slomo, your vala updates don't build in i386
<didrocks> (I saw for -1 as with the new upload, but not the build result)
<seb128> didrocks, https://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?&pkg=vala&ver=0.9.2-2&arch=i386&stamp=1277365652&file=log
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, do you know how gio-querymodules works? I notice it's only run when new packages are installed (postinst).  Shouldn't it also be run postrm?
<didrocks> seb128: thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's a trigger, it should run whenever the dir change no?
<seb128> robert_ancell, watch the .cache in the /usr/lib/gio dir
<robert_ancell> seb128, so the postinst script always gets run when a trigger occurs?
<seb128> robert_ancell, it should yes
<robert_ancell> ok
<didrocks> I've added strace to vala, tried to have a look but nothing relevant to me
<seb128> brb restart
<robert_ancell> later all
<slomo> seb128, didrocks: thanks... any idea what could be wrong? :) looks like a gio problem
<seb128> slomo, not really no...
<didrocks> I tried to strace the check yesterday, nothing useful (in addition, I can't reproduce it in my pbuilder :/)
<slomo> didrocks: same here :) maybe caused by a read-only $HOME?
<didrocks> slomo: hum, can be, good idea
<slomo> didrocks: g_bus_get_sync() for the session bus is the call that fails
<nigelb> that nautilius bug has become too difficult to tolerate :/
<seb128> what? which one?
<nigelb> the one you just commented - the amount of begging, bitching, and complaining for something we didn't even do :/
<seb128> oh, right, just ignore it
<seb128> brb
<huats> morning
<dholbach> hey guys
<dholbach> I was wondering if you need more contributors for the Desktop team
<mvo> dholbach: isn't that like asking "do you want more money"? i.e. few people would say no ;) ?
<lifeless> depends, is it counterfeit ?
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> I was just wondering what kind of stuff desktop contributors should be doing
<seb128> dholbach, triaging bugs, doing merges on debian, reviewing bugs with patches and sending those upstream or to debian, trying to lower our delta
<vish> seb128: hi , upstream just pushed a slightly different fix for Bug #270206 , just a heads up
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 270206 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "RB should never start minimised to tray (affects: 32) (dups: 5) (heat: 156)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270206
<seb128> dholbach, triaging bugs, doing merges on debian, reviewing bugs with patches and sending those upstream or to debian, trying to lower our delta, doing updates, etc
<seb128> vish, ok, is there an issue with the current one?
<dholbach> seb128: do you think somebody of the team could talk a bit about that at UDW? it'd be a good opportunity and we still have a few slots open: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<vish> seb128: nope dont see any problems , just mentioning in case you didnt want any delta  :)
<seb128> vish, I do regular snapshots for rb so no worry
<vish> :)
<seb128> dholbach, I knew you would try to trick me in! ;-)
<seb128> dholbach, shouldn't the UDW topics be rather technicals?
<dholbach> seb128: merging stuff, updating packages, etc sounds technical enough to my ears :)
<dholbach> talking a bit about the process, maybe do a quick example or two
<dholbach> done :)
<seb128> dholbach, do I need to have the topic decided now?
<seb128> dholbach, I'm fine doing an UDW session but I want to think a bit about the topic
<dholbach> seb128: which slot on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep would suit you?
<seb128> dholbach, it will be something desktopish ;-)
<seb128> dholbach, any of the slots on the 12th or 13th or the 8pm on the 15th
<seb128> dholbach, let's say the monday 7utc one
<dholbach> seb128: just seb128 or seb128 and his desktop mafia?
<seb128> just put my name for now
<seb128> I will sort details in the next days and update people and title ;-)
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep - done
<seb128> dholbach, thanks
<seb128> dholbach, it has better bringing me some contributors or I will ask for my money back! ;-)
<dholbach> seb128: sure :)
<dholbach> seb128: soâ¦ you're looking forward to the Germany game on Sunday already? ;-)
<seb128> dholbach, seeing Germany getting kicked out by our british friends, sure ;-)
<dholbach> seb128: MAN! YOU'RE GERMAN!
 * dholbach better leaves the channel quickly :)
<seb128> dholbach, lol
 * seb128 hugs dholbach
 * dholbach hugs seb128 back
<tseliot> seb128: do you know how to set gconf key values in deb packages?
<pitti> ah, I saw the game last night in a "Biergarten", very amusing
<tseliot> as in default values
<dholbach> tseliot: have a look at the ubuntu-artwork package
<tseliot> dholbach: will do, thanks
<pitti> tseliot: that's done with the gconf schema files in general (/usr/share/gconf/schemas)
<pitti> tseliot: or a debian specific "overrides" set in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/
<pitti> the latter is dh_gconf and generally easier to use in packaging
<seb128> tseliot, you can add a .gconf-defaults in the debian directory with lines "key value"
<seb128> binary.gconf-defaults
<pitti> does anyone have a printer and a minute to grab a log for me?
<tseliot> seb128, pitti: ah, nice, thanks
<seb128> pitti, on lucid or maverick?
<pitti> seb128: doesn't matter
<seb128> pitti, I can on lucid
<pitti> I need an "udevadm monitor -e --udev" output when you plug it in
<seb128> pitti, ok, one minute
<pitti> I don't have a printer these days, sorry (my wife has it in Munich)
 * pitti hugs seb128, merci
<pitti> seb128: what I'm trying to do is to stop system-config-printer.py being started on boot
<pitti> and instead launch it from update-notifier once either cups sends out a job notification or we get a printer hotplug event
<pitti> -> avoids python in the ureadahead pack and boot sequence
<pitti> mvo: hm, it seems update-notifier 0.99.3 is in lucid, but missing from lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/update-notifier/ubuntu
<pitti> mvo: it does have versions up to 0.99.2 and then the debian/maverick ubuntu bits
<seb128> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/454372/
<pitti> mvo: 0.99.3 is in the /lucid branch, but shouldn't the fix also be in trunk?
<seb128> pitti, do we need python there, I though we started those autostart with a delay
<pitti> seb128: merci beaucoup!
<seb128> pitti, de rien
<pitti> seb128: we do start it with a delay
<pitti> seb128: but all the python bits are still in the ureadahead pack
<seb128> pitti, so do we need to profile it?
<pitti> I know we are craving for sub-seconds here :)
<seb128> pitti, well, couldn't we just drop those and pay a bit extra load after the delay?
<pitti> but even boot speed aside, it's a constantly running python process
<seb128> right
<pitti> and we don't really need it until we actually print stuff
<mvo> pitti: iirc the changes are not releavent for lucid -> maverick, its just a fix for a upgrade issue
<pitti> mvo: I see, thanks
<pitti> seb128: a cheesy hack would be to delay by 60 seconds, then it would be off the ureadahead collector radar :)
<pitti> but still, we do not really need to have that running all the time
<pitti> how many people print on a netbook every day
<pitti> and for those it won't be worse
<seb128> pitti, right, I'm not discussing the fix, but I was suggesting as a workaround if you care about login you could delay it a bit and drop it from the profiling, it will be slow to start but that will not count in the session
<pitti> seb128: right; that's on the radar (bump the delay from 30 to 60 s)
<seb128> pitti, yeah, the suggestion was just for a quick hack to get things working today
<seb128> if you can get the nice way done as well that's better indeed ;-)
<seb128> -as well
 * pitti feels sorry for mvo to abuse update-notifier even more
<mvo> pitti: what do you do this time?
<pitti> you know, if only we had a system which could launch programs on certain events
<pitti> we could call it "uplaunch" or "upstart" or so
<mvo> pitti: and its all going into upstart, maybe even this cycle ;)
<mvo> pitti: it will be run for the user as well
<pitti> mvo: right, that's what I'm craving for
<mvo> pitti: yeah - what will you do with u-n this time?
<pitti> mvo: for now, u-n is just a convenient place to run system-config-printer.py when a printer gets connected or a print job is sent
<pitti> mvo: would you mind if I rename the "firmware" bit to "uevent" in trunk and reorder things a bit so that it's easier to add new uevent types?
<pitti> then I'd do the s-c-p things in a branch
<mvo> ok
<mvo> pitti: that is fine with me
<pitti> danke
<pitti> update-notifier (0.101ubuntu1) UNRELEASEDmaverick; urgency=low
<pitti> mvo: I'll fix that in bzr, ok? since 1.01ubuntu1 is released
<RAOF> pitti: Were you planning to upload a new apport with the attach_drm_info fixes soon?
<pitti> RAOF: would tomorrow be ok? still busy with urgent OEM stuff today
<pitti> RAOF: if it's hurting you, please just ask someone to cherrypick and upload, I'll deal with fixing bzr etc. later on
<RAOF> I'd just like to wait on that before uploading the apport hook which depends on it.  It's only hurting in that our bug quality is slightly less than what it could be.
<fta> i wish it was possible to specify which folders (from evo) are monitored in the indicator applet
<didrocks> pitti: if you have some free slots, I have 3 sru waiting for some love: light-themes, evince and brasero
<didrocks> no hurry though :)
<pitti> didrocks: will have to wait until tomorrow, I'm afraid (or bug jdong/slangasek)
<didrocks> pitti: don't be afraid, tomorrow is fine! thanks
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: I tried pinging them on #ubuntu-devel, not sure if that will change anything but worth trying to balance a bit the sru load rather than always having pitti and cjwatson having to unblock those
<didrocks> seb128: sure, thanks
<pitti> seb128: do you have a /dev/lp0 or /dev/usblp0 of some sort with the printer turned on?
<pitti> seb128: would you mind giving me an "udevadm info --attribute-walk --name=usblp0" output for that?
<seb128> pitti, /dev/usblp0
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: so I figure you have the "usblp" module loaded
<mvo> mpt: hi, I just read your test-case in the SoftwareUpdateHandling page
<mpt> hi mvo
<seb128> pitti, usblp loaded yes
<seb128> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/454399/
<pitti> purrfect, merci!
<mvo> mpt: I'm not sure this is really what we want, it seems to me that if the user is presented with the updates he should see them all, no ?
<seb128> pitti, you're welcome
<mvo> mpt: I mean, I can see why you put it there, but it feels a bit odd, if he wants to apply them all *right now* why shouldn't he be able to?
<mvo> mpt: or do you want to have different behvaior for auto-open and manual open? that would make it consistent again, but is IMO rather confusing
<mpt> oh, hm
<mpt> mvo, the reason it should show only non-security updates is that the security updates should already be installing in the background
<mvo> (faketime is a good tool for these kinds of tests btw)
<mpt> or have finished installing, even
<seb128> rodrigo_, dobey: "ubuntu one disabled" displayed in every nautilus directory, wth?
<rodrigo_> seb128, talk to the design team :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, dobey: I know it's not enabled, I don't need it to be displayed everywhere
<seb128> rodrigo_, who in the design team?
<rodrigo_> seb128, we are adding a hidden gconf setting to not display it
<rodrigo_> seb128, johnlea
<pitti> that seems rather pointless to me?
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, the label is just informational, the bar is there to be able to enable it
<pitti> why would someone ever enable that gconf key to see the message?
<mvo> mpt: right, but that is not necessarily the case that security-updates are installing aleady, it depends on when the background cron script runs
<rodrigo_> seb128, don't you see the 'enable' button?
<rodrigo_> pitti, the gconf key would be to hide the location bar
<mvo> mpt: so I guess it would be better if u-m would monitor changes and remove them on-the-fly once they are installed
<mpt> mvo, ok. So how can we fix the test case to test that the security updates *have* installed in the background?
<rodrigo_> seb128, if I were the one to decide, I would have patched nautilus-share to support u1, and have all this as part of the 'Share' tab in nautilus properties
<seb128> rodrigo_, I do, but I don't want to enable it!
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, I understand you :)
<mvo> mpt:  running sudo /etc/cron.daily maually to ensure it is run and has finished should archive that
<pitti> it does make sense to have this bar in the ubuntu one folder; but everywhere seems to be a bug
<seb128> pitti, you can sync any folder now...
<seb128> but the design is just broken
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, you can enable any folder for sync to u1
<mvo> silly question: can gio and the gio async stuff not be used for uid == 0 ? for some reaosn I get "operation not supported" when the same code works perfectly fine as user
<pitti> well, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to
<rodrigo_> pitti, right
<mpt> mvo, ok, and how should faketime be used in that test case?
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks, I'm going to talk to johnlea
<rodrigo_> seb128, do you have a u1 account?
<mvo> mpt: hold on a sec, I contruct a commandline for tihs
<rodrigo_> seb128, because there's still no code to check that, and not show the bar at all if you don't
<seb128> rodrigo_, I think I have yes
<rodrigo_> ah, ok, then you'll have to see it everywhere :D
<mvo> mpt: faketime  -f '+1d' update-manager should work
<rodrigo_> well, not in folders out of your home, that's also a bug that we need to fix
<mvo> mpt: eh, nonsesnse, sorry
<mpt> mvo, update-notifier instead?
<mvo> mpt: yes, but that needs to be killed before, so killall update-notifier; faketime -f +1d update-notifier
<pitti> mvo: faketime? is that an ld_preload which alters the result of gettimeofday()?
<mvo> pitti: yes, pretty cool
<pitti> neat
<mpt> mvo, ok, and how do you tell that the background updates have finished? Does cron.daily wait for unattended-upgrades to exit?
<mvo> mpt: hrm, sitll not right: NO_FAKE_STAT=1 faketime -f +1d update-notifier (the NO_FAKE_STAT is important
<mvo> mpt: yes
<mpt> mvo, so: killall update-notifier &&  NO_FAKE_STAT=1 faketime -f +1d update-notifier
<pitti> mvo: I want a fakeseb128 script!
<didrocks> pitti: why do you want the fake when you can have the real one? :)
<pitti> cause I don't have sudo on seb128 :)
<mvo> mpt yes
<didrocks> heh
<mpt> #!/bin/bash
<mpt> echo "is gtk bug"
<pitti> "iz"
<pitti> mpt: but right, that'll get us 90% of the way
<mpt> See, I can't even write a two-line script without at least one bug
<lifeless> we've got no chance :)
<pitti> $ apt-get source seb128
<pitti> E: Unable to find a source package for seb128
<mpt> mvo, so when you run that, update-manager should open immediately?
<pitti> lifeless: I'm afraid we don't, right
<rodrigo_> seb128, btw, if I understood correctly the notify-osd page, for a notification coming from a daemon (that is, no window to show the notification in), the morphing window/alert box should be shown in the background, behind all open windows, right?
<rodrigo_> mpt, ^^
<mpt> rodrigo_, you seem to be mixing up three different things
<mvo> mpt: killall update-notifier ; NO_FAKE_STAT=1 faketime -f +9d update-notifier works for me, the delay is ~10 seconds or so
<mpt> rodrigo_, what specifically are you notifying people of
<mvo> seb128: any clue about the gio question? can it run as root?
<mpt> ?
<rodrigo_> mpt, quota exceeded on u1 server, we need to allow the user to upgrade when that happens
<mpt> rodrigo_, ok. Is anything going to go horribly wrong if someone delays that for 10 minutes, or 30, or 120?
<seb128> mvo, sorry was on mumble talking to somebody
<seb128> mvo, reading backlog
<rodrigo_> mpt, no, of course not, but I wonder, if the window does not get the focus, and I don't have a taskbar and my desktop is full of maximized windows and running for several days, I might not see the window for days
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, talked to johnlea
<seb128> rodrigo_, the design includes a way for users to opt out from showing this
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, the hidden gconf key
<mpt> mvo, so have we successfully constructed a test case that passes, and therefore does not represent bug 549217? :-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 549217 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "security updates not installed daily as configured (affects: 12) (dups: 2) (heat: 105)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/549217
<seb128> rodrigo_, and it should be displayed only for user dirs, not for my usb stick or system directories
<seb128> rodrigo_, which seems a bug in the current code
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, if it shows up there is just a bug we're fixing soon, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok thanks
<seb128> mvo, I dodn't see the gio question?
<mpt> rodrigo_, an alert in the background would be the way to do this, yes. I don't see why U1 quota would be more important than software updates, for example.
<seb128> mvo, oh
<seb128> mvo, did you try to sudo dbus-launch your code?
<rodrigo_> mpt, right, I miss software updates many times, since I don't see the window
<seb128> mvo, it might be using something from gvfs but it needs session bus for that
<mvo> seb128: code
<seb128> mvo, well "sudo dbus-launch update-manager"
<rodrigo_> mpt, I start my desktop, run several apps on separate workspaces maximized, and no taskbar, so I miss that kind of windows many ties
<seb128> mvo, or whatever you try to run
<mvo> seb128: ok, thanks. I will try a alternative approach then. unfortunate as gio is really nice :/ its for aptdaemon
<rodrigo_> mpt, not saying I'm a "normal" user, but it can happen for several users
<seb128> mvo, but async on local locations should work without dbus
<mvo> seb128: its async on networked
<mvo> seb128: async http to be exact
<mpt> rodrigo_, our designs will often assume that your configuration has some way of showing you that a window is requesting attention. It dosn't have to be a taskbar, if you remove the taskbar, but it has to be *something*.
<rodrigo_> mpt, and what is it?
<seb128> mvo, ok, so you use the gvfsd-dav backend I guess
<mvo> seb128: :) dunno, whatever gives me http :)
<seb128> mvo, in which case you need dbus communication yes
<rodrigo_> mpt, in my current setup, there's nothing
<mpt> rodrigo_, by default, it's the taskbar. If you remove the taskbar, it's up to you. Might be Docky or something else.
<seb128> mvo, glib is only local, all non local things are gvfs backends
<mvo> seb128: ok, thanks. I will redo the code without gio then
<seb128> mvo, ok
<rodrigo_> mpt, so users without taskbar nor docky, they won't see the notification in many cases, that's my point
<seb128> mvo, you don't want to depends on gvfs? or getting dbus to work is an issue?
<rodrigo_> mpt, I wonder if the notifications (notify-osd) could be clickable so that a dialog is open when the user clicks on them?
<mvo> seb128: getting it to work is the issue
<seb128> rodrigo_, is there really anybody using a desktop without something listing open tasks?
<rodrigo_> or even better, a place where notifications are stacked, not all (like user xx is online/offline, of course), but important ones, that need user's reaction
<mvo> seb128: it does not seem to work for me, i get "operation not supported" when trying my codein sudo
<rodrigo_> seb128, me :D
<seb128> mvo, ok, dunno offhand then, would need debugging
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, I have the window list applet, but that doesn't flash nor asks for attention when a window is flashing, afaik
<seb128> rodrigo_, it does
<rodrigo_> really? I've never seen it do that
<seb128> or the one in the corner you mean
<rodrigo_> IÂ¡ll pay more attention
<seb128> no I'm speaking about the tasklist
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, the one in the corner
<seb128> rodrigo_, well maybe we should fix it to do that ;-)
<mpt> rodrigo_, no, notification bubbles are for non-interactive notifications. As I said, our designs assume you have a way of seeing when windows request attention, and Ubuntu provides a mechanism for that by default.
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<kiwinote> mvo: lp:~kiwinote/python-apt/conflict-with-provided-packages
<kiwinote> mvo: checks for conflicts with provided packages in deb files
<mvo> kiwinote: aha, nice. are you working on porting the remaining bits of functinality/fixes from gdebi intp python-apt ?
<kiwinote> mvo: this was a test case for gdebi, but gdebi failed it as well
<kiwinote> mvo: gdebi-test7.deb
<kiwinote> mvo: gdebi-test9.deb as well actually
<mvo> kiwinote: let me have a look
<tseliot> didrocks: what's the difference between setting gconf default values as you did in ubuntu-netbook-default-settings and doing it with a .gconf-defaults file in debian/ ?
<didrocks> tseliot: which file are you looking at? (and which version, I had to change some stuff in maverick)
<tseliot> didrocks: I'm looking at the lucid package (0.7.5)
<tseliot> didrocks: here's a relevant debdiff: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36752932/ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings_une_session.debdiff
<didrocks> tseliot: 20_une-gconf-mandatory is just for mandatory, and I had to rename it to not being taken in dh_gconf as I don't install it in the default path
<didrocks> tseliot: you see what was added to postinst? this is the magic that dh_gconf normally generate for you if you install in normal configuration path
<tseliot> didrocks: ah, so there's no need to call update-gconf-defaults directly
<tseliot> if you use the default path
<didrocks> tseliot: no, if you use the default filenames and path (those value will be for every gnome session in gdm) :)
<tseliot> didrocks: in my case 2 identical files were created: 10_metacity and 16_metacity in /usr/share/gconf_defaults
<tseliot> didrocks: with the following content: /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_window_screenshot "<Alt>Print"
<didrocks> tseliot: hum? I was thinking that 20 was the default priority value
<didrocks> tseliot: what's your file name in debian/ directory?
<tseliot> didrocks: however if I check gconf-editor nothing changed
<tseliot> didrocks: metacity.gconf-defaults
<tseliot> and in debian/rules I did:
<tseliot> binary-fixup/metacity::
<tseliot> 	dh_gconf --priority=16
<didrocks> tseliot: can you pastebin the diff, please?
<tseliot> sure
<didrocks> tseliot: gconf-editor won't take the value if you changed it manually btw
<didrocks> tseliot: you should unset it first
<tseliot> didrocks: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/454435/
<tseliot> didrocks: yes, I changed it manually but then I removed the value from gconf-editor
<didrocks> tseliot: which do you want it to be specially 16 as a priority?
<didrocks> tseliot: I think dh_gconf is called twice there
<tseliot> didrocks: yes, that's my guess too. They are the same file, and I need just one
<tseliot> didrocks: shall I unset the key in the preinst?
<didrocks> tseliot: check you debian/metacity.postinst but you should see two update-gconf-defaults
<didrocks> tseliot: no, please, don't do that :)
<didrocks> tseliot: so, first thing (just having one file)
<didrocks> remove your change in debian/rules
<didrocks> it's not needed
<tseliot> didrocks: I didn't really want to do that in the preinst, it sounded a little ugly ;)
<didrocks> tseliot: and wrong, as it's runned as root :)
<didrocks> tseliot: so, remove your changes in debian/rules
<tseliot> so much for user configs ;)
<didrocks> you will get just one file in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/ which is 10_metacity
<didrocks> tseliot: evevn, you should add you value to metacity-common, isn't?
<tseliot> didrocks: ah, so dh_gconf is called automatically
<didrocks> tseliot: you already have one
<didrocks> tseliot: yeah, gnome.mk is making the magic happen :)
<tseliot> ok
<didrocks> so, add your lilne to metacity-common
<didrocks> line*
<didrocks> then, we will check why the value isn't taken into account
<tseliot> didrocks: right, I hadn't even noticed the existence of metacity-common.gconf-defaults
<tseliot> didrocks: maybe quotation marks confused gconf
<didrocks> tseliot: hum, IIRC, yeah, you don't need it
<tseliot> I'll try with <Alt>Print instead of "<Alt>Print", just in case
<didrocks> tseliot: I'm surprised, Alt Print is already the default there
<tseliot> I saw that in the metacity-common file
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> so, what are you trying to do? :)
<tseliot> didrocks: yes,  Alt Print is hardcoded in a header. Mutter is doing some funny stuff though
<didrocks> tseliot: oh ok, so the gconf value is ignored?
<tseliot> didrocks: I'm rebuilding the package right now
<didrocks> great, that should work then
<pitti> tkamppeter: does s-c-p and udev-configure-printer currently pick up and autoconfigure bluetooth printers?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I don't see anything in /lib/udev/rules.d/70-printers.rules which would do that; is that correct?
<tseliot> didrocks: it still doesn't seem to be set
<tseliot> didrocks: "gconf-tool --dump /apps/metacity/global_keybindings" shows that it has no value
<didrocks> tseliot: gconftool-2 -g /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_window_screenshot
<didrocks> gconftool-2 -u /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_window_screenshot
<didrocks> gconftool-2 -g /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_window_screenshot
<didrocks> the second line should unset the value
<didrocks> I have moderate confidency in gconf-editor for that task, I think I had some issue with it not resetting the value to default
<tseliot> didrocks: yes, after passing it "-u" it finally gives me "alt Print"
<didrocks> tseliot: never trust graphical tools :)
<tseliot> didrocks: I know.. ;) Thanks a lot for your help
<didrocks> tseliot: you're welcome
<pitti> RAOF: fixed apport uploaded to maverick, so go wild
<seb128> didrocks, no hurry but could you uploaded the version of your sru to maverick when you will have a free slot? not likely today with unity updates, that can wait next week
<seb128> didrocks, lucid and maverick and not on sync for the GNOME sources we merged so they can't be copied
<seb128> uploaded -> upload
<didrocks> seb128: sure, will be probably tomorrow
<seb128> didrocks, no hurry, next week will do
<pitti> didrocks: thanks for your p-d-e LINGUAS fix; do you have some time to also write a quick test for it?
<didrocks> seb128: theme/envince/brasero right?
<seb128> didrocks, I'm just mentioning it in case you didn't notice the versions in maverick were different
<pitti> in exchange, I have 20 mins now to look at the SRU queue
<didrocks> pitti: can put that on my TODO :)
<seb128> didrocks, the theme can be copied I think
<seb128> didrocks, the 2 others yes
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, some kind of trade? :-)
<pitti> didrocks: j/k
<dobey> pitti, seb128: hehe, i see you guys missed that big argument session at uds :)
<didrocks> pitti: will do next week, when the boring freeze will be in process
<seb128> dobey, the nautilus ubuntuone sync one?
<pitti> dobey: â© Madness takes its toll! âª
<didrocks> seb128: there is an annoying libtool incompatibity issue btw in brasero as upstream use a new version, you have to remove ltmain.sh and autoreconf -i to get it copied with our (older) version
<didrocks> (just FYI)
<dobey> seb128: yeah, where i was like "yeah, we can't really be putting that bar in every folder in the user's face"
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> dobey, you were right
<dobey> of course. but hard to make design see that sometimes :(
<seb128> displaying until somebody click "enable" or "stop bothering me" would be ok
<seb128> ie having both options in the bar on first run
<seb128> and display it until the user pick one
<pitti> please let's not turn everything into a billboard
<pitti> seb128: seems the recent gdm SRU changes aren't in maverick yet?
<pitti> I mean for the one currently in -proposed; it's ok for -updates otherwise
<pitti> same for empathy
<seb128> pitti, empathy we have 2.31.3 so they should
<seb128> pitti, gdm right, I was waiting for the 2.30 tarball they will roll this week rather than playing backport game over 2.30.2 we have in maverick
<pitti> seb128: are the changes in bzr?
<pitti> I mean the ones which we did in the packaging
<seb128> pitti, we did some in the packaging?
<seb128> pitti, the 2.30.2.is.2.30.0-0ubuntu1 changes are in maverick
<seb128> didrocks' fixes from the current upload is in maverick
<seb128> other changes are git backports we can drop when gdm guys roll a tarball
<seb128> which should be this week
<seb128> they got delay because of a string freeze breakage issue they try to get resolved with translators
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, kenvandine, didrocks, vuntz, lamalex, everybody ...
<seb128> pitti, so short reply "once they roll a tarball maverick will have all the sru changes"
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<lamalex> salut
<rickspencer3> why aren't we getting people applying for the netowrking/browser maintainer job?
<pitti> seb128: the changes to read .Xinitrc or whatever we fixed in that SRU
<rickspencer3> we desperately need someone, and it's a *cool* job!
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> pitti, those are in maverick
 * pitti in a meeting, bbl
<seb128> pitti, we got the 2.30.2 updates which had those changes in maverick and didn't roll back versions there
<seb128> pitti, ie the first sru which had all the changes and failed verification
<seb128> rickspencer3, that I would like to know as well...
<rickspencer3> here's the job: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UDE/
<lamalex> well, i mean i *technically* applied for that job, but you sold me on the other one
<rickspencer3> lamalex, nooooooo
<lamalex> haha
<lamalex> Maybe people have the perception that it's a particularly difficult job
<rickspencer3> well, difficult jobs can be the most rewarding
<didrocks> I agree with lamalex, i think it's more fear than anything else
<lamalex> has anyone tried approaching a nm/chromium community member?
<pitti> seb128: ah, and we put that into maverick, right? so we can just close the maverick tasks?
<vuntz> rickspencer3: to be honest, any job with "web browsers" is something I would not consider fun
<vuntz> rickspencer3: my first thought is "wow, backporting security fixes for firefox, no way"
<rickspencer3> vuntz, aaarg
<rickspencer3> but that's chrisccoulson job
<rickspencer3> this job is more about eating candy, and petting unicorns
<vuntz> heh
<vuntz> but I guess most normal people would think like me on this anyway
<lamalex> maybe the job description could be made more exact, to keep people from having that thought
<seb128> pitti, just deal with the sru I will deal with the maverick tasks
<vuntz> err
<seb128> pitti, will be easier this way ;-)
<vuntz> I meant "would not think"
<chrisccoulson> my ears are burning
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> vuntz, why not trying to apply for this job just to see if you are right? ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: heh. Because I don't see why it'd be a better job than the one I have now :-)
<seb128> vuntz, that's because you didn't try! ;-)
<vuntz> seb128: tss
<vuntz> seb128: if I were to apply, I'd probably consider the release manager one, I guess. Although it's probably not that fun
<rickspencer3> vuntz, I thought maybe you might know someone awesome who likes a good challenge
<rickspencer3> vuntz, all jobs on Ubuntu are fun!
<rickspencer3> lamalex, do you know anyone who knows any networking and/or browser code bases?
<lamalex> the people i worked with at jolicloud
<vuntz> rickspencer3: the awesome people I know are generally already aware of those jobs :-)
<rickspencer3> lamalex, maybe you could let them know that we have this position?
 * lamalex isn't sure how he feels about trying to poach ex-coworkers
<lamalex> i can let them know though
<rickspencer3> lamalex, well, it's not like you work for Canonical, so it's not really poaching
<rickspencer3> but I understand
<rickspencer3> it's more that they may also know people
<rickspencer3> like, maybe they interviewed someone who wasn't a fit for their company, but would be awesome for this job, for example
<lamalex> yeah, i will ask them
<Laney> is there a PPA with rgba/csd gtk+?
<Laney> or shall I just build my own with the patch?
<seb128> tedg, bratsche, kenvandine: ^
<kenvandine> no ppa
<kenvandine> not that i know of anymore :)
<Laney> kenvandine: I guess I can just install ubuntu1 though yeah?
<seb128> you can yes
<Laney> cool
<Laney> there's a banshee patch that i hope will fix it there
<Laney> want to test it
<bratsche> Laney: Yeah, just patch it if you don't mind.  Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
<seb128> bratsche, do we have a wiki page or something explaining common issues or a reference bug?
<bratsche> I don't think so.
<seb128> bratsche, I guess the crashes are mostly a similar issues in different softwares
<bratsche> Yup.
<seb128> bratsche, by explaining what the issue is and how to fix it we might get people contributing to fixing some?
<bratsche> Yeah, that's probably true.  There's a wiki page on live.gnome.org already, maybe I write something there.
<seb128> bratsche, would be great ;-)
<micahg> seb128: did you want me to look at merging gjs when I do my debian merges?
<seb128> micahg, that would be nice thanks
<seb128> micahg, do you think you will have time to do that for next week?
<micahg> seb128: k, can gnome-shell wait until then?
<micahg> seb128: idk, I guess it depends on what's left with the xulrdepends backporting
<seb128> micahg, there is no hurry, g-s is outdated for 6 months and not building for weeks
<seb128> micahg, but just updating to 0.7 and rebuilding might work for now?
<micahg> seb128: the merges are scheduled as an alpha 3 work item, so I was planning to do them in a couple of weeks
<seb128> micahg, ok, I will maybe try to do the version update for now if nobody else does it
<seb128> just to see if we can get g-s to build
<micahg> seb128: k, did you get my email earlier?  I'm going to try to make gnome-shell and gjs xul version independent
<seb128> micahg, yes I did and dholbach pinged me about at the same time I was reading it to tell me your rebuild doesn't build
<seb128> micahg, so I figured I would reply on IRC later on to discuss it
<micahg> seb128: k
<tkamppeter> pitti, principally yes, as the /usr/lib/cups/backend/bluetooth returns the IDs of the available Bluetooth printers. Problem is that the backend takes to long and so usually misses the 15 sec timeout of CUPS.
<pitti> tkamppeter: but the udev rules can't pick that up, since there is no event when you turn on a BT device?
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes, Plug'n'Print does not work, what I tried now is to connect to a Bluetooth printer like to a network printer.
<tkamppeter> pitti, to make them discovered by Plug
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, that'd work; thanks for confirming!
<tkamppeter> 'n'Print (printer setuo by turning it on and/or bringing it close enough) we need UDEV rules.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I wonder why the Bluetooth backend takes so long to find Bluetooth printers. I would need to make the network printer timeout in s-c-p much longer so that it does not miss Bluetooth printers and then users of network printers think that their printers are not found and give up too early.
<pitti> seb128: do you happen to know if there is a non-deprecated equivalent of gtk_init()? i. e. for a small application to generate the default --help and set app name/version?
<pitti> erm, gnome_init() I mean
<dobey> pitti: i think the answer is to use the GOptionParser bits. and gtk_init() knows how to do things
<pitti> but in Python you don't even call gtk_init(), it's done by the import
<pitti> dobey: GOptionParser, ah; thanks, I'll check that
<dobey> pitti: yeah, in python you do some weird magic to hook up GOptionParser and the python OptionParser, iirc
<dobey> pitti: i recall doing that in the old ubuntuone-client-applet...
<dobey> pitti: ah, no special magic really, pygobject has the magic built-in :)
<dobey> from gobject.option import OptionGroup, OptionParser, make_option
<dobey> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntuone-client/stable-1-0/annotate/10/bin/ubuntuone-client-applet#L563
<pitti> dobey: awesome, thanks!
<dobey> sure
<dobey> pitti: you're an archive admin right? :)
<pitti> dobey: yes
<dobey> pitti: care to poke at the mocker package that's in that queue? :)
<pitti> in which queue?
<dobey> pitti: ajmitch sponsored it from revu last night, and so i believe it is just waiting for archive approval to make it into universe
<pitti> ah, NEW?
<dobey> yeah, i guess it would be in NEW
<seb128> pitti, what dobey said
<pitti> dobey: added to my todo list for the evening
<dobey> pitti: thanks!
<tkamppeter> pitti, I got an e-mail from Tim Waugh about the release of s-c-p 1.2.3 and he tells that it has udev support in the Bluetooth helper program.
<pitti> nice
 * didrocks waves goodnight
<pitti> dobey: mocker accepted; sorry for the delay, have some fires to stamp out
<dobey> pitti: no worries, thanks much!
<seb128> dobey, the description is not really clear about what that is ;-
<dobey> seb128: if you can find a better one, i'll be happy to change it, but it seems pretty clear to me. at least, the first sentence. The other part was added to satisfy the 3 line complaint, and is what the description of mocker is on launchpad.net/mocker
<seb128> dobey, I've only read the one line description in the changes email
<seb128> dobey, I guess the detailled description is better ;-)
<gnomefreak> any idea on who to talk to about gnome-shell, launchpad tells me to file bug on gnomes bug tracker and they keep closing bugs on it since it is our packages PPA or official repos
<seb128> upstream
<seb128> what is their concern with ppa builds? those are daily builds no?
<gnomefreak> seb128: our official builds have the issue as well
<seb128> what issue?
<gnomefreak> seb128: our desktop file contains menu items and it shouldnt
<gnomefreak> there was another 1 i filed a while ago and cant recall what it was
<gnomefreak> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=622582
<ubot2> Gnome bug 622582 in general "Gnome-shell fails to load from gnome menu" [Normal,Resolved: notgnome]
<gnomefreak> thats this one
<seb128> ok, dunno then
<gnomefreak> we should also allow at the very least to be able to file bugs on our packages
<seb128> our current official package comes from debian
<seb128> and I don't know about the ppa one
<seb128> you are
<seb128> but I guess you use the ppa and not the ubuntu version
<gnomefreak> i tried PPA to see if it had issues as well
<seb128> well the ppa is not an ubuntu version
<gnomefreak> seb128: tried both atm i have neither installed
<seb128> that's why you can't open an ubuntu bug
<seb128> where do you get an error?
<gnomefreak> seb128: going to the LP page it says to file bugs with gnome-bt
<seb128> which url?
<gnomefreak> seb128: looking for it now
<seb128> you tried to open a bug againt the upstream product not the ubuntu source
<seb128> ?
<gnomefreak> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gnome-shell
<seb128> TheMuso, hey
<gnomefreak> oh
<seb128> TheMuso, should we try to sru a accerciser update to lucid?
<seb128> TheMuso, it fixes a crash bug reported in launchpad due to gtkbuilder changes in the lucid cycle
<TheMuso> seb128: SOunds reasonable.
<TheMuso> I can follow it up if you like.
<seb128> TheMuso, that would be nice, maybe check GNOME a11y components we want to update for lucid .1?
<seb128> TheMuso, we did sru quite some GNOME updates, so we might want do some of those as well
<TheMuso> seb128: Yeah that too
<seb128> TheMuso, we have some weeks so no hurry but if you find some time to review the updates which could be interesting and sru those...
<seb128> TheMuso, thanks!
<TheMuso> Sure thing.
<Sarvatt> hmm, having all kinds of problems with totem-ffmpeg not finding codecs in maverick, its linked against libavutil49 not libavutil50?
<Sarvatt> libavutil-extra-49 seems to be an empty package with just docs in it
<seb128> Sarvatt, I've noticed some bugs about that but didn't have time to investigate yet
<gnomefreak> seb128: thanks got it filied
<seb128> I'm still running lucid on my main box, I was waiting for those sru round to be uploaded to upgrade now
<Sarvatt> libgstffmpeg.so can't find libavutil.so.49 because the package isn't installing it, ahh
<Sarvatt> ok that makes more sense now :) i didn't see any errors until i ran gst-inspect and saw the problem, it was just failing to find codecs to download
<Sarvatt> libavutil49 is correct, its libavutil-extra-49 that is screwed up and that replaces libavutil49
<seb128> Sarvatt, oh, so you figured the issue?
<seb128> Sarvatt, could you let siretart know if that's a ffmpeg bug?
<Sarvatt> not yet, i dont know where i got this screwed up libavutil-extra-49 from, could have gotten it from medibuntu and it hung around after the upgrade
<seb128> not likely
<seb128> we got quite some bugs about it and I've got a buggy box which was a stock lucid install upgraded
<Sarvatt> yeah this is in universe, grabbed the deb from the archive and its messed up
<seb128> I never added any additional apt source for ffmpeg on it
<Sarvatt> gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg should just be built against libavutil50 anyway though shouldn't it?
<seb128> I guess so
<seb128> I've not tried to figure what soname is current
<seb128> why is there 2 versions?
<Sarvatt> other junk is still using libavutil49 though like vlc and thats screwed up also if you have extra installed :(
<Sarvatt> they bump the sonames so often, i'm sure stuff just hasn't been rebuilt against the new one yet
<seb128> can you check with siretart which one should be used?
<Sarvatt> yeah libavutil49 isn't even built in ffmpeg-extra anymore so the screwed up empty package is just hanging around in the archive
<Sarvatt> yeah will try to track him down
<seb128> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-25
<Sarvatt> these ffmpeg-extras packages are a nightmare, libswscale-dev was uninstallable because it depends on libswscale0 | libswscale-extra-1 (which isn't a package)
<Sarvatt> doing a no change rebuild of gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg against the newer libavutil now though to see if thats all thats needed to fix it
<TheMuso> Sarvatt: If thats all thats needed, let me know and I'll upload it for you.
<Sarvatt> xvid's work again! \o/ gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg just needs a no change rebuild against the newer libavutil-dev
<Sarvatt> Depends: libavcodec52 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1) | libavcodec-extra-52 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1), libavformat52 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1) |
<Sarvatt>          libavformat-extra-52 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1), libavutil50 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1) | libavutil-extra-50 (>=
<Sarvatt>          4:0.6~svn20100505-1), libc6 (>= 2.7), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0), libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (>= 0.10.22), libgstreamer0.10-0
<Sarvatt>          (>= 0.10.24), liboil0.3 (>= 0.3.6), libpostproc51 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1) | libpostproc-extra-51 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1),
<Sarvatt>          libswscale0 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1) | libswscale-extra-0 (>= 4:0.6~svn20100505-1)
<Sarvatt> TheMuso: well there might be something else up with it, I pinged siretart about it
<TheMuso> Sarvatt: ok.
<Sarvatt> libavutil.so.50 => /usr/lib/i686/cmov/libavutil.so.50 (0x00111000) after a rebuild, before /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgst-ffmpeg.so was looking for 	libavutil.so.49 => not found and the libavutil-extra-49 package is empty
<Sarvatt> and the codec installer wouldn't work because the empty package was installed already so it didn't find anything to install
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor glib?
<TheMuso> Sure.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
<TheMuso> np
<RAOF> Can someone check for me that /var/log/dmesg is readable only by root and the adm group on your system?
<ajmitch> RAOF: yep
<RAOF> Cool.  More apport bugs!
<ravibn> Hi! I need help with my Dell Latitude
<ravibn> please indicate to me which version of ubuntu I need to install
<RAOF> ravibn: This isn't a support channel; #ubuntu or ubuntuforums.org are better places for support.  That said, the most recent Ubuntu release is almost always the best, particularly since Ubuntu 10.04 is a long-term-support release.
<ravibn> I tried that forum and also the latest 64bit LTS THe machine would not even boot
<ravibn> RAOF : my latitude has core i7 720QM cpu (i686 ) with nVidia 3100 nvs
<ravibn> RAOF : I want to understand whether the server version (10 LTS) supports the i686
<ravibn> RAOF : I mean 64bit version of ubuntu
<RAOF> It does.  You might be having problems because of yourâ¦ ok.
<didrocks> good morning
<nigelb> Bonjour didrocks :)
<didrocks> hey nigelb :)
<RAOF> ls
<RAOF> Ahem.  Focus fail!
<TheMuso> heh
<RAOF> Now that I've got a second monitor hooked up again I want a head-tracking dohicky to ensure the focus is always on the screen I'm looking at :)
<TheMuso> lol
<bryce_> RAOF: how about dual touchscreens? :-)
<RAOF> We need xserver 1.9 for that so that we can apply transformations on the device inputs!
<RAOF> Who feels invigorated to upload a little xorg with an updated apport hook?  http://cooperteam.net/Packages/xorg_7.5+6ubuntu2_source.changes
 * TheMuso is working a little early today, so is out of here in a minute or so, so don't have time sorry.
<seb128> hey there
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> pitti, how are you? got a better night?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> seb128: absolutely, I slept well
<kiwinote> mvo: hi
<seb128> nice ;-)
<pitti> cjwatson and I hacked until 1, but then I allowed myself to sleep in until 9 :)
<kiwinote> mvo: can i just confirm the plan for debfile.py?
<mvo> hey kiwinote
<mvo> good morning
<mvo> kiwinote: let me check the mail
<seb128> hey mvo
<mvo> kiwinote: yep :)
<mvo> hey seb128
<mvo> kiwinote: its a bit of a historc thing, please make sure you get the latest gdebi trunk that includes the python-0.8 port changes
<mvo> kiwinote: and it may be worthwhile to convert some of the tests to be run automatically, but I will leave that you to decide
<kiwinote> mvo: so first I merge the files from gdebi and python-apt, keeping the 'shape' of the python-apt file, but grabbing the functionality from gdebi
<mvo> kiwinote: yeah
<kiwinote> mvo: and then i port gdebi to use python-apt rather than it's own debfile class?
<mvo> kiwinote: correct
<mvo> kiwinote: its going to be a bit of work I imagine :/
<kiwinote> mvo: ok, thanks
<mvo> kiwinote: let me know if I can help in any way
<kiwinote> mvo: will do
<mvo> seb128: I run your upgrade test currently
<mvo> seb128: triggered a bug in *my* code !
<mvo> seb128: bad boy
<seb128> mvo, lol
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<mvo> :)
 * mvo hugs seb128
<mvo> all good, SRU for it is almost ready
<seb128> mvo, speaking of which you should join the sru team
 * mvo nods
<mvo> that is probably a good idea, but I already feel that I'm not on top of things without another thing to look after
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> mvo, well it's load balancing, while pitti is on rotation and slangasek moving team we are pretty much blocked on sru reviews
<seb128> mvo, I'm pondering joining as well, but that wouldn't unblock my issue which is that my stack of desktop uploads need review ;-)
<pitti> I'll do some this morning
<pitti> but I (or, rather, OEM) really needed that hackathon in the past three days, sorry
<mvo> seb128: ok, let me see how the buy-something progress of today goes and if it looks promising I can do some on monday
<seb128> pitti, slangasek did 3 of those yesterday which is something ;-)
<seb128> pitti, thanks for doing that, still if mvo and I join that will help balancing load
<seb128> pitti, ie for next round if that's not this one
<pitti> absolutely, that'd be great
<seb128> mvo, s-c hates unity
<mvo> seb128: ha! I'm sure its the other way around ;)
<mvo> seb128: s-c is build with extra-love inside
<seb128> mvo, no, if I type "unity" in the search entry in s-c maverick it lists nothing
<seb128> hum same for "gnome"
<seb128> ok, so maybe the index is broken or something
<kiwinote> seb128: that's fixed in trunk
<seb128> kiwinote, thanks
<mvo> *cough*
<mvo> I should do a new upload, but yeah, trunk works and unity is #1 hit
<seb128> mvo, ok, in fact it works if I select something else than "get softwares"
<seb128> well it does list other things before unity
<seb128> but it does list things ;-)
<seb128> mvo, do you plan to do an upload before a2?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> definitely
<mvo> lots of good stuff inside
<seb128> mvo, upload upload upload!
<mvo> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> mvo: speaking of things hating each other, apt officially hates me
<pitti> I've done like 10 followup commits, and it's still not perfect
<pitti> works with everything else now, but apt-xapian-index is still taking infinite time (literally)
<pitti> so I need to track that down as well; please ignore the MP for now
<mvo> pitti: ok
<pitti> but I learned a lot about apt's inner workings :)
<mvo> pitti: I can imagine :)
<mvo> seb128: btw, I added support for "do-release-upgrade -d" from lucid -> maverick directly now
<mvo> (you asked IIRC)
<mvo> (and others too)
<seb128> mvo, indeed, thanks
<mvo> np
<seb128> didrocks, ok, normal update-manager maverick upgrade works and bring it unity places binaries
<didrocks> seb128: sweet \o/ thanks for testing :)
<seb128> those places are quite slow to display icons though
<seb128> it takes over one second with blank icons and then screen is changing to real colored icons
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, known issue
<didrocks> seb128: kamstrup told there are low hanging fruit to fix that
<didrocks> also, there isn't any preferences/settings
<seb128> right
<didrocks> and it doesn't take XDG_CONFIG_DIRS into account
<seb128> still it's very nice
<didrocks> but for a first iteration, it's not bad at all :)
<seb128> didrocks, there is no way to get the expose mode now with those places?
<didrocks> seb128: I think not, it's hidden right now with the ws switcher which has no ui
<seb128> ok
<htorque> thanks for pointing me to unity-places-* - i was wondering what that empty black screen is all about :P
<huats> morning
<didrocks> morning huats
<huats> morning didrocks !
<mvo> seb128: so the original error seems to be fixed with your upload, but now I get "Atk-1.0.gir" as a addtional file overwrite error (from libatk1.0-dev" - known issue?
<seb128> mvo, bug #547244 I guess
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 547244 in atk1.0 (Ubuntu) "package libatk1.0-dev 1.29.92-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gir-1.0/Atk-1.0.gir', which is also in package gobject-introspection-repository 0:0.6.5-0ubuntu1 (affects: 6) (heat: 54)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/547244
<mvo> (libatk1.0-dev <-> gobject-introspection-repository)
<mvo> seb128: yeah, sounds like it
<mvo> seb128: I wait until its finished, but I think #574837 is verfication-done
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<seb128> mvo, I will get the atk issue on the .1 lucid buglist
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> mvo, the atk bug is milestoned for lucid .1 and assigned to TheMuso now
<seb128> TheMuso, I've assigned you that atk replaces issue, would be nice to fix when you update atk to the current stable, thanks
<geser> didrocks, huats: do you know when our anjuta package gets libanjuta-dev? or should packages waiting on it get changed to use anjuta-dev?
<seb128> geser, when somebody does the merge on debian I guess?
<seb128> geser, you are welcome to do it if you want
<huats> seb128, I can try to handle it otherwise later today or monday
<seb128> hey huats
<seb128> if you want to do it you are welcome ;-)
<huats> seb128, I know I know... and you have not idea how much I'd like to do it...
<huats> I am just lacking time :(
<huats> but I still hope :)
<didrocks> huats: didn't you take some tasks already last week?
<didrocks> huats: reviewing and integrate patches IIRC
<huats> didrocks, yep
<huats> I had
<didrocks> huats: don't take too much on your plate :)
<huats> but I should have much time starting monday
<kiwinote> mvo: would I be right in assuming that the cache file from python-apt is more complete/actively developed, but that it is still missing functionality from the gdebi cache file?
<mvo> kiwinote: that is possible, if so I think we should also port the missing bits (if they make sense). whats bits are that in particular?
<kiwinote> mvo: gdebi's debfile was calling cache.getProvidersFor(), but I can't find an equivalent for that in python-apt's cache
<mvo> kiwinote: right, lets move it over then :)
<kiwinote> mvo: ok ;)
<pitti> mvo: u-n's autogen.sh says "do not use gnome-autogen.sh as long as it's broken"; it works fine in current lucid, do you happen to remember what was broken in particular?
<pitti> mvo: but in fact merely using autoreconf works just fine, and that's the upstream recommended way now
<pitti> mvo: would you mind if I clean that up a bit? i. e. using autoreconf, move to configure.ac, etc.
 * pitti is in cleanup mood
<pitti> oh, it is already
<pitti> just with an extra bunch of stuff
<glatzor> seb128, hello
<glatzor> seb128, may I point you to #389766?
<glatzor> seb128, should the gconf defaults be shipped with gnome-settings-daemon or with packagekit?
<glatzor> seb128, g-s-d detects an installed packagekit and tries to load the font installer extension. but this isn't installed, since we don't support this feature.
<glatzor> seb128, we would have to set
<glatzor>  /apps/gnome_settings_daemon/gtk-modules/pk-gtk-module
<glatzor>  to false
<seb128> glatzor, is there a schemas for this key somewhere?
<glatzor> seb128, no. I haven't found any.
<seb128> I'm not sure to understand the bug
<seb128> what is checking that key if it's not set anywhere?
<glatzor> seb128, gnome-settings-daemon
<pitti> seb128: would you mind checking the maverick status of the gdm and empathy SRU bugs on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html?
<seb128> glatzor, no it's not
<glatzor> seb128, oh. true
<seb128> glatzor, grepping for "pk-gtk" in g-s-d sources lists nothing
<glatzor> I did so too now.
<glatzor> hmm.
<glatzor> strange.
<seb128> well, whatever defines this key should be changed
<seb128> not sure what component that is though but it's not g-s-d
<seb128> pitti, doing that, dunno if you read my comments yesterday where I said I would take care of updating maverick tasks for the gdm sru
<pitti> seb128: I did read that, but I wasn't sure what "take care" means -> close the bugs or apply the patches, etc.
<glatzor> seb128, sorry. I have mixed something up in my mind.
<seb128> pitti, well, it means close the tasks that should be closed and comment on other and milestone them as they should
<glatzor> seb128, the schema is part of gnome-packagekit
<seb128> pitti, I said I will not waste efforts to backport git commits to maverick when we will get a gdm next version in the next days
<seb128> glatzor, ok, so that's the one that should set the default value
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks; so I just keep gdm and empathy in proposed until I see the followup
<seb128> pitti, it don't worry I will do things as they should ;-)
<seb128> it->ie
<seb128> didrocks, ^ can you update the empathy ones, closing the maverick tasks for things fixed in 2.31.3?
<didrocks> seb128: hum? I didn't list them? weird
<didrocks> sure, let me check
<didrocks> seb128: ok, all wasn't listed in the changelog (one without upstream task, the other upstream bug not listed in NEWS) but the 2 remaining were ok. Fixing the 2 others
<seb128> didrocks, not listed, but you didn't do the 2.31.3 update so those didn't get closed
<didrocks> done
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> pitti, I'm not sure what you want on the gdm bugs in fact, you want the maverick bugs to be closed before accepting the sru to updates?
<pitti> seb128: that, or milestoned to maverick alpha-3 or so
<seb128> pitti, because the tasks are already in a correct state, I've milestoned them now
<seb128> to alpha2
<pitti> I really don't want changes in SRUs which are forgotten about in maverick
<seb128> I will get that on monday if they didn't roll a tarball
<seb128> pitti, well they are not forgot, they are in git waiting for a tarball to be rolled
<pitti> seb128: and a check that our packaging changes are all in bzr at least
<didrocks> ok, it wasn't me, afraid of doing something wrong. Yeah, it was a debian merge :)
<seb128> pitti, right, I've done that as well, those are fix released in maverick already
<pitti> like 06_run_xsession.d.patch
<pitti> seb128: packaging changes released and other changes in upstream git is sufficient
<pitti> thanks!
<seb128> pitti, np, sorry that this update is a bit of a mess, with the version revert in proposed
<pitti> I know, I introduced the broken one :-/
<seb128> pitti, well to be fair I asked if you could help on GNOME sru updates and asked you to look at this one ;-)
<seb128> pitti, anyway all sorted now
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs you back
<RAOF> Anyone feel like a nice simple Xorg upload to add pitti's wonderful attach_drm_info to the xorg apport hook?
<pitti> can do
<pitti> RAOF: got a debdiff or branch?
<RAOF> Thanks!  OEM stuff is more calm today, then? :)
<RAOF> http://cooperteam.net/Packages/xorg_7.5+6ubuntu2_source.changes
<pitti> RAOF: yes, we are out of ideas, and need to wait for the Lexington guys to wake up anyway :)
<pitti> (and we should be over the finish line anyway)
<RAOF> Or the ubuntu branch in pkg-xorg git.
<seb128> will that close some of the workitems on your a2 list?
<seb128> you have the higher count for the team right now ;-)
<RAOF> That will, yes.
<seb128> nice
<seb128> would be nice if you could try to get those a2 work items in shape for next week
<seb128> ie delay those you will not get done
<rodrigo_> an icon we were using in lucid from gnome-icon-theme (stock_contact) is no longer in that package in maverick, any idea?
<RAOF> Will do.
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, g-i-t 2.30 change IIRC
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's avatar-default now
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, check to be sure but there was a similar issue in empathy
<pitti> RAOF: nudged archivewards
<seb128> and those changes are why we didn't update g-i-t in lucid
<rodrigo_> avatar-default is available, yeah
<seb128> lunch time, bbl
<RAOF> pitti: Awesomeitude.
<pitti> lunch! now, that's a bright idea
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> lunch for real now, bbl
<didrocks> pitti: enjoy
<seb128> hey
<seb128> mvo, bug #394642
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 394642 in gnome-app-install (Ubuntu) "merged duplicate strings to reduce # of msgstrs (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/394642
<seb128> mvo, could you review the patch there? it's on the review team list
<mvo> can do
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<pitti> mvo: ah, I found out about xapian; it does work, just takes ages; I suppose it's due to a lot of seek operations (it accesses p-apt's .record field a lot)
<pitti> I'll look into this in python-apt
<pitti> mvo: I'm just about unsure what to work against -- lp:python-apt seems to be fairly out of date
<pitti> is there a more recent trunk somewhere? lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/python-apt/ubuntu is just our packaging branch, right?
<mvo> pitti: hold on a second, there should be a debian-sid branch somewhere
<mvo> pitti: ours is the ubuntu branch that is also very up-to-date
<pitti> lp:~mvo/python-apt/debian-sid is 44 weeks old
<pitti> mvo: so should I just use that then?
<pitti> lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/python-apt/ubuntu I mean
<pitti> http://bzr.debian.org/apt/python-apt/debian-sid -- aah!
<mvo> pitti: yeah, this one or the lp:~mvo/python-apt/debian-sid-mirrored (that should be the one that debian is using
<pitti> mvo: perfect, thanks
<mvo> pitti: I made lp:python-apt point to this one now
<pitti> ah, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/python-apt updated for this
 * pitti hugs mvo
<mvo> cheers, thanks for pointing this out
<pitti> so, let's see what I can do about the performance problem
<pitti> mvo: otherwise it seems that lp:~pitti/apt/compressed-indexes works pretty well these days
<pitti> mvo: and yay for p-apt having a nice test suite :)
<mvo> yep!
<pitti> mvo: it doesn't seem to have any kind of local repo for debs, though? just an "edgy" sources.list
<pitti> ah, just seems to use the system one
<pitti> fine for me :)
<seb128> ccheney, hey
<seb128> ccheney, is there any news about that presentation and compiz issue?
<ccheney> seb128, haven't had time to work on it yet, hopefully over this weekend i can look at it
<ccheney> seb128, been beating on a kernel bug related to server
<seb128> ccheney, ok
<seb128> ccheney, we need it uploaded by end of next week
<ccheney> this is for lucid sru, right?
<ccheney> or in maverick?
<seb128> lucid sru
<seb128> we want it in .1
<seb128> which is at end of july, but time validate the sru, build images, etc
<ogra> seb128, do you know if the gstreamer packges will stay at the current version for maverick ?
<seb128> ogra, they will most likely not
<ogra> (TI is rebasing some work/patches and want to know if the version stays)
<ogra> seb128, thanks !
<seb128> ogra, we are still very early in the cycle, depends of upstream but I guess they will roll updates during the cycle
<seb128> ogra, though I don't know when
<ogra> ok
<ogra> worst case they have to forward port the patches :)
<seb128> ogra, I can try to figure if that's important
<seb128> right
<didrocks> alf__: hey, why did you removed control.in? I remember asking you to put it back and generate debian/control from it :)
<didrocks> alf__: also, how is the discussion with the DD btw about dh 7 and such?
<alf__> didrocks: I must have missed that, sorry. That being said, what is the need for control.in when using dh7? I thought it was only useful when using cdbs.
<didrocks> alf__: hum, good point, I think debian has still some uploaders: for DM and such, let me check if it's the case for this package
<didrocks> alf__: yeah, they have the GNOME_TEAM for uploaders. Not sure they have the fix for dh7 and that btw (and not sure the debian GNOME team wants to use dh7)
<didrocks> alf__: did you check with them?
<alf__> didrocks: Not yet, I am going to send a mail in a while
<didrocks> alf__: ok, let me check the rest first
<didrocks> alf__: why did you bump libcairo2-dev to 1.6? configure.ac says 1.4
<alf__> didrocks: let me check
<alf__> didrocks: ...because README says > 1.6, I didn't notice configure.ac was different. Now, what to believe? :)
<didrocks> alf__: ahah, that's the question :)
<didrocks> let me check what we have
<didrocks> alf__: well, in any case, we are higher even in lucid, I would say don't care and keep 1.6 :)
<didrocks> (even hardy has 1.6)
<didrocks> alf__: is the json stuff mandatory? what's used for?
<alf__> didrocks: json is used for loading predefined interfaces (like eg XML is used for glade)
<didrocks> alf__: it's just from my curiousity, but some clutter interfaces are json documents?
<alf__> didrocks: They can be :)
<alf__> didrocks: There is a small example in the Clutter wikipedia article
<didrocks> alf__: oh sweet, I will have a look, thanks! back on the review
<alf__> didrocks: BTW, thanks for taking the time to review, I know you are very busy :)
<didrocks> alf__: why did you conflict the two -dev package against libclutter-1.0-dev, do they install the same file?
<didrocks> alf__: no worry, sorry for it taking so long :)
<didrocks> I assume that eglx-es11 and eglx-es20 are installing the same library name, hence the conflict, as well on -dev package but for glx backend, it's another story, no?
<alf__> didrocks: Unfortunately all -dev install pkg-config files using the same name.
<didrocks> urgh :/
<alf__> didrocks: We have talked to upstream about this...
<didrocks> yeah, that's not good at all :/
<didrocks> alf__: will they fix it?
<alf__> didrocks: No, answer yet...
<didrocks> alf__: ok
<didrocks> alf__: I saw you added a bunch of patch
<kiwinote> mvo: I've finished  merging the debpackage, debsrcpackage, cache files with the python-apt cache and debfile files.
<kiwinote> mvo: It took a bit longer than it should have, but I've done some testing and it seems to work.
<kiwinote> mvo: I'll start porting gdebi now, and hope that things still work nicely ;)
<didrocks> alf__: while I'm not sure about debian/patches/fix_po_makefile_out_of_tree_build.patch and  debian/patches/fix_test_data_path.patch (they should be other way to fix it, I'll have a look), can you add infos on them following this format: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<didrocks> alf__: it enables knowing that the patch has been forwarded upstream, and description/authors
<mvo> kiwinote: cool, let me know once there is a branch to look at
<alf__> didrocks: Ok, I 'll take a look. I have already pushed some of them upstream.
<kiwinote> mvo: I'll push python-apt once I've finished doing gdebi, as for some reason bzr wants to upload 70mb, which takes 30mins over here. I can pastebin the files if you want to have a look now though
<mvo> kiwinote: thanks, I will just wait for the push, that is fine
<kiwinote> ok
<didrocks> alf__: we usually use one -dbg package by source package
<didrocks> alf__: do you have name collision?
<didrocks> alf__: I think you can with eglx-es11-1.0 and eglx-es20-1.0 so files, right?
<alf__> didrocks: Yes, these two produce the same .so file
<didrocks> alf__: ok, forget it so :)
<didrocks> alf__: it's cool, you call dh_girepository and using gir:depends :) Just one gir file copied from es20? (es11 and e20 shared library can be used with the same gir file? same interface?)
<alf__> didrocks: Yes, they are (at least they are supposed to be :)) completely ABI compatible.
<didrocks> alf__: sweet! very good work, all the remaining seems good to me
<didrocks> that's really a bunch of good work :)
<didrocks> alf__: so, I would say: fix remaining things I noticed previously and talk to debian
<didrocks> alf__: on the bright side, if you don't want to carry the autoreconf patch, you should build-dep on dh-autoreconf and add the call to dh_autoreconf
<alf__> didrocks: Thank you, so just to be clear, the remaining stuff is only the patches info?
<didrocks> alf__: let me check :)
<didrocks> alf__: yeah, patch info + looking for the control.in if debian has something for their GNOME_TEAM in dh7
<didrocks> and then, talk to debian :)
<didrocks> alf__: dh-autoreconf if you have the time too, it's really good
<didrocks> again, nice work :-)
<alf__> didrocks: thank you, and thank you for reviewing it :)
<didrocks> alf__: yw :)
<didrocks> (hum, the json interface builder is fun :))
<kenvandine> didrocks, what's that?
<didrocks> kenvandine: for clutter, see the wikipedia page
 * kenvandine looks
<kenvandine> ah...
<kenvandine> nice
<kenvandine> better than xml stuff
<kenvandine> although... i find it annoying that when using json-glib to parse json it is just as painful as dealing with xml parsing
<kenvandine> python-simplejson ftw!
<seb128> kenvandine, Riddell: could you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus if you have anything to note there?
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm pinging you but I'm not sure it's required since dbarth does dx summaries
<kenvandine> seb128, btw... did i mention i'll be gone on vacation next week?
<kenvandine> seb128, no worries.. sometimes i do have stuff :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: can you access to your futon?
<didrocks> (the couchdb one :))
<seb128> kenvandine, I don't think you did before, enjoy those ;-)
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> seb128, sorry... meant to mention it earlier in the week
<seb128> that's ok
<seb128> kenvandine, your work items for a2 at done so nothing to worry about ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, could you make sure your a3 work items reflect what you will do during the next iteration though?
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure if you did review those yet
<seb128> kenvandine, is the tpapprover still blocked on something?
<kenvandine> seb128, not anymore
<kenvandine> i think...
<kenvandine> should be ready for me to work on when i get back
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> they merged what i needed
<kenvandine> but nobody has really used it yet
<kenvandine> seb128, i am about to do the first release of libgwibber
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<highvoltage> 2in 21
<mpt> mvo mvo mvo
<mvo> hello
<mpt> hi :-)
<mpt> mvo, if you could save a text file containing the name of every package installed on your computer, what could you use it for?
<mvo> you mean from a security perspective? or from a cool-things-to-do-with-that perspective?
<mpt> mvo, cool-things-to-do-with-that
<mvo> with just the names relatively little, with name+version we could tell what needs updating and download it
<mpt> Take it to another computer and "cat inventory.txt | xargs apt-get install", or something like that?
<mvo> with enough data (and some cleverness) we could data-mine it and try to make suggestions
<mvo> yeah, clone the package list
<mvo> the installed packages
<mvo> to me cloning is the most interessting use case
<mvo> and reinstall of course
<mvo> re-install into the same system as before
<mpt> yes
<mpt> We'd need to record somehow which archive (e.g. PPA) each package belonged to
<mvo> when using it with a clever backup system it can avoid backup a lot of data
<mvo> right, so (packagelist+versoin, sources.list-conent) is needed
<mvo> and for a full "backup" some way to re-create packages that are not/no-longer downloadable
<mvo> (not sure if that is something to care about)
<mpt> More than that, if someone has forced a particular version
 * mvo nods
<mpt> ok, thanks mvo
<mvo> cheers
<didrocks> mvo: mpt: the issue is recording packagelist + version is when you save the list on lucid and want to install it on maverick, for instance
<mpt> yes
<didrocks> (same issue with sources.list, is the new ppa/source available for the new version?)
<didrocks> s/version/release
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hi
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #578281
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 578281 in ubufox (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Add search plugin for Baidu (affects: 1) (heat: 79)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578281
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you think you can get that done next week? we are getting close of the upload line for .1 updates
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's already on my list of things to look at
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
<seb128> rickspencer3, ^
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128 and chrisccoulson
<rickspencer3> so, looks like a bit of work for me to get 10.04.1 organized next week
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> time for a bit of a break then, I think :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, see, this week didn't end yet that you are already loaded with tasks for next week
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
<seb128> rickspencer3, isn't working in Ubuntu great ;-)
<seb128> pitti, thanks, enjoy your weekend as well!
<didrocks> enjoy your week-end pitti
<rickspencer3> seb128, indeed!
<kiwinote> mvo: lp:~kiwinote/gdebi/use-python-apt and lp:~kiwinote/python-apt/merge-gdebi-changes
<kiwinote> mvo: the latter includes my patches from yesterday
<mvo> kiwinote: thanks. cache.downloadable() can go, there is "package.candidate.downloadable" now
<mvo> kiwinote: I guess that needs updating in the debfile.py as well, let me check
<mvo> kiwinote: and for get_providers_for() I wonder if we can merge that with get_providing_packages() they are very similar
<didrocks> kenvandine: is there a way to know if couchdb has finished or not its replication?
<kenvandine> ~/.cache/desktop-couch/log/desktop-couch-replication.log
<kenvandine> didrocks, ^^
<didrocks> kenvandine: no API :)
<didrocks> ?
<kenvandine> probably
<mvo> kiwinote: hm, I guess a mail is better than irc :)
<kenvandine> ask CardinalFang in #ubuntuone
<kenvandine> didrocks, that is the current documentation :)
<kenvandine> didrocks,  did you say futon wasn't working for you too?
<didrocks> kenvandine: ok, is it intended to clean this log one day
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah
<kenvandine> i think it is rotated now
<didrocks> kenvandine: because it's something like 65 MB here
<kenvandine> oh that is nothing
<kenvandine> :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: and on lucid, before reformatting it went to 300 MB
<kenvandine> in feb at the sprint... we looked at mine, and it was 1.5G
<kenvandine> do you have .1, .2?
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> or actually .[date]
<kenvandine> although... i have nearly a months worth of logs there
<kenvandine> i hope it deletes old ones...
<didrocks> kenvandine: I have .[date]
<didrocks> but very old
<kenvandine> humm.. i have a bunch
<kenvandine> weird
<didrocks> kenvandine: can you ask OLS to work on that? it's hundreds of MB spoilt there
<didrocks> (and I don't use gwibber)
<kenvandine> yeah... ok
<kenvandine> well my whole directory is 31M
<kenvandine> is the current file the big one?
<mvo> kiwinote: the gdebi changes look fine, thanks for workinG on this
<didrocks> 328M/home/didrocks/.cache/desktop-couch/log/
<didrocks> if every softwares did thatâ¦
<didrocks> kenvandine: no, it's not the biggest
<didrocks> kenvandine: but would be nice to make some cleaning thereâ¦
<didrocks> even my weechat log folder, which is older is smaller. and I'm on 30 irc channels everyday
<kenvandine> yeah
<kiwinote> mvo: thanks for the comments, will fix those this evening
<kiwinote> mvo: I will look at automatic testing sometime later
<om26er> fta, there?
<om26er> fta, gwibber-daily needs to depend on python-libproxy else gwibber dont start.
<fta> kenvandine, ^^ (gwibber), do you still maintain it?
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> which branch is it again that the dailies pull from?
<fta> bug 597744
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 597744 in gwibber "Missing dependancy: python-libproxy (affects: 9) (dups: 3) (heat: 36)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597744
<fta> kenvandine, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~fta/+junk/ppa-confs/annotate/head:/ppabot-pkgs-gwibber.conf
<fta> let me know if it's now in another branch
<kenvandine> i am merging the dep change into that branch
<kenvandine> sorry, i forgot about your dailies :)
<fta> thanks
<fta> kenvandine, it seems lots of people are using those dailies
<kenvandine> fta, i pushed the change to that branch... but i can't build it locally
<kenvandine> fails to construct the tarball... no time to look at it...
<kenvandine> sorry, hopefully your daily will build :)
<fta> respinning, we'll know soon enough
<kenvandine> thx fta
 * kenvandine -> lunch... bbiab
<ccheney> seb128, if i disappear over the next week unexpectedly it will be due to a medical emergency, i can fill you guys in later if you want to know
<ccheney> seb128, my wife might have to be hospitalized, she is going to see a doctor on tuesday afternoon if she is ok until then
<seb128> ccheney, oh ok, thanks for letting us know and take care of your wife, work tasks can wait
<ccheney> seb128, ok, i think that she will be ok, she's going downhill but not nearly as rapidly as back in sep 2007 (not sure if you knew about that)
<ccheney> seb128, and we think we might finally know the root cause of the problem
<seb128> ccheney, (no I didn't) ok, that's a least something I guess, let us know how it goes
<fta> *sigh* http://codereview.chromium.org/2838023
<fta> kenvandine, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/597744/comments/3
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 597744 in gwibber "Missing dependancy: python-libproxy (affects: 9) (dups: 3) (heat: 36)" [Undecided,Fix released]
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-27
<TheMuso> Good morning.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-20
<RenatoSilva> do you guys intend to incorporate the changes from git repo of emerald which makes it work with natty's compiz?
<RenatoSilva> i.e. are you planning to update emerald package from upstream?
<RenatoSilva> I'm desperately trying to find a way to enable emerald in natty. I can't find any deb package tough, only manual steps for installing from git source
<RenatoSilva> does anyone know a reliable ppa with the compatible emerald packaged in?
<charlie-tca> RenatoSilva: not a ppa, but I think there is a .deb attached to this bug -
<charlie-tca> http://pad.lv/726229
<RenatoSilva> charlie-tca: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emerald/+bug/733393/comments/25
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 733393 in emerald "[natty, SRU] emerald segfault on launch" [High,Fix committed]
<RenatoSilva> charlie-tca: just updated from proposed, will try it right now
<Amaranth> afaik we've removed emerald from the archive
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> fta: uh, how did you get that?
<fta> pitti, hi, got what?
<pitti> the duplicated apport report entries
<fta> just ubuntu-bug compiz
<fta> or unity
<fta> (in oneiric)
<pitti> fta: doesn't work with unity here, but I do get one dup'ed field with compiz; thanks
<Sweetshark> morning all!
<fta2> pitti, could you please do something about apport-retrace replacing libc6-dbg with libc6-dbgsym + libc-bin-dbgsym? libc6-dbg is a dep of valgrind,
<fta2> pitti, i need valgrind on my dev box, and each time i use apport-retrace (which is nice to have on a dev box too), it leaves the system broken (apt requiring -f, various apt cron jobs failing, etc.)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti! How are you?
<pitti> Splendid, thanks! how about you?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks. Nice to be home for a short time :-)
<pitti> didrocks: how was the Qt summit?
<didrocks> pitti: was excellent. Lot of friendly people, interesting discussions about Qt 5 and QML, also, I've been able to advance a lot on the a11y side  :)
<pitti> fta2: still in oneiric? it should prefer libc6-dbg over libc6-dbgsym if available
<fta2> pitti, yep, oneiric
<pitti> the -dbg vs. -dbgsym handling is quite a mess; originally it didn't install -dbg in the first place, but a contributor got that added because it was useful for him
<fta2> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/629707/
<pitti> the best would be to not ever unpack/install those, and just tell gdb "debug symbols are in /tmp/foo/, not in /usr/lib/debug/"
<pitti> but back then I haven't found a way to do that
<pitti> AFAIR because the path is usually hardcoded in the ELFs
<fta2> pitti, i also have plenty of -dbg, so not replacing those by -dbgsyms is also something i want (it doesn't work very well atm, if at all)
<pitti> fta2: you should probably just run it as user, and not touch the packages at all
<fta2> pitti, then the retraced traces are useless
<pitti> it should still tell you which packages it would install
<fta2> does it?
<fta2> even in root, it no longer installs the right dbgsym, since that multi-arch thing landed, i have to locate and install half of the dbgsyms myself
<pitti> that's still on my list
<fta2> (i do that with a script)
<fta2> didrocks, hi, do you know the bug id of the unity_support_test nvidia crash (oneiric)? i can't find it (and i can't stand unity-2d anymore)
<cdbs> Did anyone get around checking why gnome-power-manager 3 crashes in Unity?
<pitti> when/how?
<pitti> martin    2569  0.0  0.2 285872  9860 ?        Sl   06:46   0:00 gnome-power-manager
<pitti> cdbs: can you run it in a terminal with --verbose?
 * cdbs checks
<didrocks> fta2: no, I let dx people now handling their own bug. I didn't get the crash though
<didrocks> fta2: better to ask them directly on #ayatana I would guess (after 10am)
<cdbs> pitti: Oh wait, it comes up, but it doesn't put itself inside an indicator
<cdbs> in the Unity panel
<pitti> cdbs: right, I get that, too
<fta2> didrocks, ok, /me sad. seb said last week it was known, but i still can't find the bug. it's only crashing in 1 of my 2 nvidia desktops
<pitti> the patch is active, apparently it wasn't ported properly
<didrocks> fta2: should be a nux bug
<didrocks> (the test tool is in nux FYI)
<didrocks> fta2: just a 30s search: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/795439
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 795439 in nux "unity_support_test should say 'Unity 3D supported' in Oneiric" [Undecided,New]
<fta2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/629712/
<didrocks> argh, wrong tab :)
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/764724 this one I guess (which already existed but it's what people are having in oneiric IIRC)
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 764724 in nux "unity_support_test crashed with SIGSEGV in glXCreateContext()" [Critical,Confirmed]
<didrocks> fta2: I would say, just ping people on #ayatana (loicm is the one working on this tool)
<fta2> ok
<fta2> RAOF, seems i can't upgrade mesa without breaking everything... http://paste.ubuntu.com/629713/
<TheMuso> didrocks: A11y progress, that is great to hear.
<didrocks> TheMuso: yeah, we tried with Frederik to challenge our git foo to make the first backport happen. It's almost there (a little crashy, but largely usable). I'll fix some issue with him today and hope to push in the desktop ppa the first version
<didrocks> TheMuso: I'll ping you if you want to test it
<didrocks> we fixed the licensing issue with qt-at-spi btw
<TheMuso> didrocks: Please do, and thanks.
<didrocks> yw :-)
<pitti> fta2: duplicated keys fixed in trunk, thanks
<seb128> hey desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! weekend was very rainy, but still nice
<pitti> how about yourself?
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<TheMuso> Morning chrisccoulson, seb128
<chrisccoulson> hi TheMuso, how are you?
<seb128> pitti, same here, rainy weather but w.e was still nice
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Not too bad thanks. Yourself?
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, good thanks, but a bit tired though
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<seb128> lut didrocks, bien rentrÃ© ?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - you have british weather? ;)
<pitti> apparently so
<didrocks> seb128: bien rentrÃ©. Short week-end though (back home late on Saturday)
<seb128> didrocks, you asked for it! ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, was the hackfest useful at least?
<didrocks> seb128: very useful (wasn't really a hackfest, more an UDS-like events with discussions)
<didrocks> seb128: interesting to see where they want to push Qt 5. Seems to be a good approach. Got good progresses on a11y and I hope I'll be able to push them this week on ubuntu (at least, today in our ppa)
<seb128> didrocks, nice ;-)
<didrocks> so yeah, useful :-)
<seb128> didrocks, seems you are almost ready to take over Riddell's position as kubuntu maintainer :p
<didrocks> Qt != KDE :-p
<didrocks> Qt is enough for me right now ;)
<seb128> you start this way, wait to see what's next... ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> apart from that, seems that last week was quiet in the desktop world? (didn't see anything falling apart in -changes ;))
<didrocks> oh, and the hotel was very nice (33rd floor for me, nice view on Berlin) ;)
<seb128> yeah, desktop land was quiet
<seb128> let me restart after upgrade and update you on dx world
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> fta2: ah, I suppose what's happening is that it tries to install libc-bin-dbg, doesn't see it, installs libc-bin-dbgsym instead, and afterwards gets to libc6
<pitti> any idea how to tell python-apt to always DTRT here?
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> hi seb128, I'm fine, you, had a good weekend?
<seb128> yeah, rainy weather but nice w.e anyway
<seb128> rodrigo_, how are your tooth issues going?
<rodrigo_> seb128, a bit better, not much pain since Saturday afternoon
<rodrigo_> so /me crosses fingers
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> ok, great
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<seb128> pitti, we are receiving some nautilus segfault bugs due to the g-i-t split :-(
<pitti> seb128: do we know which ones are missing? is the name in the trace by any chance?
<seb128> pitti, I'm trying to figure what icon is creating issues, will let you know if I found it
<pitti> seb128: I suppose it's because we are again using the gnome theme, not the humanity one?
<seb128> pitti, no, those bugs don't have a stacktrace, they just state that installing the g-i-t-f binary solves it
<pitti> seb128: I even have gnome-themes-standard installed, but even that doesn't work any more
<seb128> it doesn't?
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<pitti> seb128: I fully expect a lot of crashes if programs don't actually use the humanity theme
<pitti> I didn't put "all used icons" into g-i-t, just "all used icons which aren't in humanity"
<rodrigo_> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> seb128: does it for you? it stopped working a few days ago
<seb128> pitti, it's a theme, how stopped working?
<seb128> pitti, I still have blue colors in scrollbars for example
<seb128> or selections
<huats> morning
<seb128> lut huats
<didrocks> salut huats
<huats> hello guys
<huats> :)
<pitti> seb128: I'm back to a desktop which looks like not having g-t-standard
<pitti> i. e . the win 3.11 grey box style
<huats> today I am almost on work holidays so I should be able to package a bit in the next few days :)
<huats> FINALLY!
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> pitti, no, works for me
<seb128> huats, ;-)
<seb128> pitti, did you stay on gtk 3.1.4?
<pitti> seb128: no, 3.1.6
<pitti> seb128: org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme == "Adwaita", and not user modified, hmm
<seb128> pitti, weird, gtk 3.1.6 and gnome-themes-standard 3.1.2.1 should work fine
 * pitti tries guest session
<seb128> pitti, that's the correct theme
<seb128> is g-s-d working for you?
<pitti> seb128: yes, I have the right icons in unity
<pitti> same in guest session
<pitti> well, who knows what I messed up on this machine
<seb128> pitti, do you have any error on the command line if you run a gtk software?
<pitti> (gedit:21491): Gtk-WARNING **: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to underallocate GtkBox's child GtkImage 0x26ddd30. Allocation is 16x1, but minimum required size is 16x16.
<pitti> millions of these
<pitti> Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module"
<pitti> and that one, but I have got that for months
<seb128> pitti, dpkg -l | grep gnome-themes-standard
<pitti> ii  gnome-themes-standard                 3.1.2.1-0build1
<seb128> hum ok, dunno then
<pitti> no biggie for now
<pitti> if it works in general, that's fine
<pitti> but back to the original question, how does nautilus crash?
<seb128> well maybe it works only for me because of a local install or something but let's see
<pitti> it's running all the time here, but I guess the reporters tried to do something particular?
<seb128> bug #799004
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 799004 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_info_load_symbolic() (dup-of: 799007)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799004
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 799007 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_info_load_symbolic()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799007
<pitti> seb128: that might happen for people who changed their icon theme in natty or earler?
<pitti> seb128: we should perhaps install g-i-t-full on upgrade
<seb128> pitti, dunno, but that makes me uncomfortable, because having no icon theme is also what happens when g-s-d has an issue
<seb128> which is happening often nowadays
<seb128> especially since each cycle they bundle extra features to it and that any bug to any of the code it loads bring it down
<seb128>  
<seb128> let me check the retracers
<seb128> hum
<seb128> ERROR: connecting to Launchpad failed: __init__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'disable_ssl_certificate_validation'
<seb128> wth?
<pitti> wasn't that the httplib issue?
<pitti> I noticed another oneiric upload which was supposed to fix it
<pitti> so perhaps now we musnt't downgrade any more?
<lifeless> it is, yes.
<seb128> pitti, why would the natty version stop working?
<pitti> seb128: as I said, there was another launchpadlib-ish upload which was supposed to work with current httplib; perhaps that stopped working with natty's httplbi?
<seb128> let me try to upgrade
<fta2> pitti, seb128: the python-httplib2 has been fixed in lazr, but you need to unpin python-httplib for it to work (otherwise you get another error)
<seb128> fta2, right, that's we just did ;-)
<seb128> fta2, right, that's what we just did ;-)
<seb128> pitti, ok, the retracers are running and working
<seb128> the nautilus stacktrace has its icon value optimized though so no luck for getting the name from it
<rodrigo_> need to reboot, bbiab
<pitti> fta2: FYI, apport fixed for multiarch in trunk; I'll do an oneiric upload now to push out the fixes
<fta2> pitti, \o/ thanks
<ogra_> pitti, seb128, do we plan to go on shipping gnome-user-guide even if we are not using the shell ?
<pitti> gnome-user-docs now also has unity documentation
<ogra_> hrm
<ogra_> k
 * ogra_ wonders what to do on arm then
<ogra_> upgrading it makes dpkg go stuck for 20min here
<ogra_> too many files for slow SD cards
<seb128> get a better SD card? ;-)
<pitti> run with eatmydata?
<pitti> that's what makes dpkg suck mostly
<pitti> (the syncs)
<pitti> or --force-unsafe-io
<ogra_> hmm
<cassidy> seb128, hey! Any progress on the libcheese dep front?
<seb128> cassidy, not really, I guess it will be ok but we need to get several libraries promoted and to sort cheese depending on camerabin which is not in gst good
<cassidy> just because of code maturity or... ?
<seb128> dunno, I just noticed when Debian did the cheese update
<seb128> but that's something we need to sort, I didn't have time to check yet
<cassidy> k
<seb128> vish, hi, I just noticed your bug about the nautilus sidebars ordering, did you open an upstream bug about that?
<vish> seb128: hi, there is a bug about it upstream, someone else has filed it, but i wouldnt expect much changes there. , was hoping to get some input from our design team .. they seem to prefer the current layout for their user-base â¦ i can link it
<seb128> vish, ok, I was wondering how those design bug work
<vish> they seem to prefer - (is the upstream)
<seb128> vish, the bug is "fix commited" but has no nautilus component nor recommendation on what the order should be
<seb128> speaking about the launchpad bug
 * vish checks
<seb128> lp #792871
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 792871 in ayatana-design "Update Nautilus Sidebar ordering" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792871
<seb128> which confuses me a bit on what is wanted ;-) or why the bug is "fix commited"
<seb128> it doesn't seem it's set to be worked
<vish> seb128: hmm, yea, i think they might have an internal document, which is yet to be public?
<seb128> could be
<seb128> I just crossed the bug, I guess I will wait for somebody to open a bug against nautilus with some recommendation
<vish> yea, maybe it's still in chinstrap atm..
<seb128> ok thanks
<vish> np.. thx
<mvo> alex3f: hey, just FYI there is some interesst to write a dummay install backend for software-center. so if you have any plans in this direction we should coordinate :) but I guess you go straight to the PK version, right?
<alex3f> mvo: hi, thanks for the heads up
<alex3f> yes, my plan is to go directly to the PK
<alex3f> but I'm interested in the dummy
<mvo> great, that means no duplication of effort then
<alex3f> especially the backend selection part (maybe env) and testing
<mvo> I think the dummy one will help a lot with additional tests and such
<mvo> plus interactive experiments with the GUI
<alex3f> cool
<alex3f> great, who's doing the dummy backend?
<mvo> alex3f: aaron peachey said he would look into it
<alex3f> I'm watching s-c branches, I'll notice it :)
<mvo> alex3f: he did some great work on the backend for the reviews and wrote a dummy version there too
<mvo> alex3f: :)
<alex3f> ah, I know
<didrocks> pitti: just tried to size the .pyc files (uncompressed) on the live. It's just 40MB. Maybe we can win at least 10 once compressed if we remove them and recreate them during install?
<pitti> didrocks: indeed, cjwatson and I discussed that last week; he's looking into that
<didrocks> pitti: oh ok :)
<didrocks> that will be a nice win
<cjwatson> yeah, it's about 12MB compressed
<cjwatson> planning to do that this week
<cjwatson> I'm just cleaning up eglibc breakage triggered by pitti's locales changes at the moment ;-)
<didrocks> excellent, that would give us back on track for CD size :)
<didrocks> cjwatson: he dared doing that to you? :-)
<pitti> cjwatson: what? why?
<cjwatson> bug 799673
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 799673 in eglibc "localedef doesn't know about rupee symbol" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799673
<cjwatson> test-building a couple of backports for that at the moment
<pitti> eek
<pitti> thanks
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: Hi guys! As regards the rationale for dropping gdm's language chooser, maybe you find this commit message enlightening: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gdm/commit/?id=4c564be4ab862215020d71b1d1caf153e13eef8f ;-)
<GunnarHj> Anyway, I made an attempt at reinserting it. The resulting branch builds, but does not run... https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gdm/langchooser
<GunnarHj> I have kind of given up, so if you think it's worth it to continue, an experienced developer would need to fix the missing bits and make it run. (After that, I would be happy to redo the Ubuntu patches.)
<pitti> GunnarHj: hey
<pitti> GunnarHj: TBH I don't think we should bother with gdm; we should rather add it to lightdm then
<seb128> hey GunnarHj
<seb128> right, agreed with pitti there
<cyphermox> good morning!
<seb128> hey cyphermox, how are you?
<pitti> hey cyphermox
<cyphermox> good good.
<cyphermox> seb128:  and you?
<seb128> doing well, thanks ;-)
<GunnarHj> pitti, seb128: Ok, then I won't struggle with it any more. Will nudge Robert about the language chooser in LightDM.
<seb128> GunnarHj, ok, seems better, will avoid having issues with gdm upstream as well because we change their softwares in a way which doesn't fit their design
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, I just wish that their design with respect to i18n wasn't so simplistic.
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, thanks for reassigning the accountsservice bug to kees, was just waiting for him to comment
<kenvandine> mterry, you're my hero!  thx for uploading ido! :)
<mterry> kenvandine, yw :)  Does that unblock anything I can help with further?
<kenvandine> it unblocks one of the telepathy-indicator tasks i have
<kenvandine> but i'll do that, thx though!
<mterry> kenvandine, are the indicator-* releases coming through from DX alright?  I haven't noticed anything hitting oneiric
 * mterry wants the indicator stack in gtk3
<kenvandine> mterry, not yet... tedg decided to upgrade to oneiric first
<kenvandine> so he could actually build some of them...
<kenvandine> tedg, how did that go?
<seb128> mterry, \o/
<mterry> seb128, hey, seb!
<seb128> hey mterry
<seb128> mterry, I've nothing specific but maybe check with ted what indicators need work still maybe if you want to get that moving
<seb128> mterry, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3 has a "[ken-vandine] get libindicate-gtk ported to GTK3:", is that still to do ?
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<seb128> mterry, I guess you can steal the ido WI from ken and set it to DONE
<kenvandine> seb128, the hope is it isn't a todo... tedg was going to figure out a way to either not have it at all or fix the namespace issues
<pitti> seb128: do you understand bug 797000?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797000 in desktop-file-utils "/etc/gnome/defaults.list uses non-existent inode/directory=nautilus-folder-handler.desktop" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797000
<seb128> pitti, I think it's https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653000
<ubot2> Gnome bug 653000 in Other Preferences "[info] Default Applications Do Not Persist" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> pitti, xdg-utils bug
<seb128> pitti, but the description is not really clear so I'm not sure
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<pitti> kenvandine: for bug 791735, should appmenu-gtk3 be a dependency of something?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 791735 in appmenu-gtk "`menu_proxy_module_load': gedit: undefined symbol: menu_proxy_module_load - appmenu-gtk3 not installed by default" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791735
<kenvandine> pitti, probably indicator-appmenu when it is ported
<pitti> kenvandine: to indicator-appmenu perhaps?
<kenvandine> i guess it doesn't need porting...
<pitti> kenvandine: is that your or mterry's plate?
<kenvandine> i haven't looked at it, but i can
<pitti> I guess it'd make sense to assign this to whoever will touch it
<kenvandine> assign it to me
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, done; thanks
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you know if we will needs cups-pk-helper if we use s-c-p instead of the control-center panel this cycle? (if we need it we should write a mir)
<seb128> kenvandine, TheMuso: do you have any opinion on bug #790608
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 790608 in libcanberra "libcanberra needs to depend on sound-theme-freedesktop" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790608
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, did s-c-p need it before?
<kenvandine> seb128, not really
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, s-c-p doesn't need it I think, but you can't add a printer using g-c-c in oneiric without it
<seb128> kenvandine, did you read it?
<seb128> kenvandine, TheMuso: basically the kubuntu guys made canberra install the fdo sound theme so we have 2 sound themes on the CD now
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, so yes, we probably need it
<kenvandine> just the title, but i know very little about the sound theme
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok thanks, I keep the workitem for the mir then ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, well "keep", let it on the spec free to grab by whoever wants to do it
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, let me know if you need me to do something
<rodrigo_> ah, ok :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, if you want to write the mir feel free
<rodrigo_> I'll look at it as soon as I finish the couple g-c-c tasks I'm working on
<seb128> rodrigo_, no hurry, finish what you are working on
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> ok :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, let's wait to see if TheMuso has an opinion on that
<pierce1> so, when I try to do an apt-get update after adding the gnome3-team ppa, I get --  W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop/gnome3-builds/ubuntu/dists/natty/main/source/Sources  404  Not Found
<pierce1> is it broken with now, or did I mess something up?
<micahg> pierce1: that's not the right PPA
<pitti> rodrigo_, seb128: I thought we wanted to use s-c-p and its GUI in oneiric, instead of the trimmed down g-c-c one?
<pierce1> my updates stopped working, so I removed all ppas, then tried adding the gnome3 ppa back, and now I'm getting 404
<pitti> we shouldn't have both IMHO
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, we are
<pierce1> micahg: what is the current recommended ppa for gnome 3?
<rodrigo_> pitti, but I'm looking at having g-c-c panel and call s-c-p for adding and configuring printers, as embedding it in g-c-c looks horrible
<pitti> rodrigo_: in the worst case, it could spawn the external s-c-p GUI?
<rodrigo_> yes, that's what I'm working on
<pitti> rodrigo_: we'll probably need that for at least some parts anyway (u1 control center, etc.)
<rodrigo_> to call s-c-p from u1?
<pierce1> micahg: the one I am using now is the one I had working back a couple months ago, and all other PPAs I could find looked older
<pitti> rodrigo_: u1-control-panel, sorry
<pitti> rodrigo_: no, from g-c-c
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> but u1 has an indicator, right?
<dobey> no
<micahg> pierce1: AFAIK, https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
<pitti> rodrigo_: I don't think so
<dobey> well we have a launcher
<seb128> u1 will have a sync indicator
<pitti> rodrigo_: you launch it from the messaging menu usually
<seb128> but probably not this cycle
<seb128> no?
<rodrigo_> ok, so it can have the control panel there, right?
<seb128> or I got confused with things from previous cycle
<pitti> it does
<rodrigo_> no need to embed it in g-c-c, that is
<pitti> but we also have language-selector, jockey, software-properties, and whatnot
<seb128> well those can stay standalone
<rodrigo_> all will look horrible embedded
<seb128> if needed
<pitti> my preferred solution would be to get rid of the g-c-c shell altogether and keep them all standalone really
<rodrigo_> so yeah, spaÂ¡wning a separate window for those might work
<pitti> and provide a unity lens or similar for it instead
<pitti> pretty much what we used to have with the system menu
<seb128> pitti, getting ride of the g-c-c shell? why?
<pitti> seb128: do you like it?
<rodrigo_> pitti, then the g-c-c panels won't be availabel
<seb128> pitti, like all the upstream capplet are integrated with it
<pitti> I liked the system -> prefs one better, also integrated better with non-upstream settings
<seb128> pitti, not especially but it got quite some work and design work so I guess some people think it's better ;-)
<dobey> rodrigo_: can't you launch the g-c-c shell with a specific module already opened? like gnome-control-center --capplet=display or something?
<seb128> you can
<rodrigo_> dobey, yes
<dobey> i guess you can't hide the "go back" and other bits of the shell though
<pitti> that's what the capplet menu entries do
<pitti> well menu -> .desktop files (whcih unity displays)
<rodrigo_> dobey, right, you can't hide that
<rodrigo_> pitti, what I don't like about the system menu is that it was overloaded with lots of stuff
<rodrigo_> so if we go that way, there should at least be some categories
<seb128> having a lens to list those capplets and the shell would give you both
<seb128> then anyone is free to pick what they like
<pitti> good night everyone! time for Taekwondo
<chrisccoulson> isn't there any good documentation for using libindicate?
<chrisccoulson> the reference documentation shipped with it isn't useful at all
<mterry> ahem, is anyone else seeing crazy unity-panel-service crashes?  I'm assuming my ido upload broke things?
<seb128> kenvandine, mterry, tedg: can we get https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/indicator-me/gsettings/+merge/58065 merged?
<seb128> mterry, I don't but I didn't get your update yet
<mterry> seb128, well, don't update  :)
<seb128> mterry, the binary are in the NEW queue so I will keep them there
<seb128> mterry, or do you want me to reject them?
<mterry> seb128, not yet
<seb128> ok, I keep them there for now
<mterry> seb128, not sure what's going on here.  can't seem to get gdb to catch an issue
<kenvandine> seb128, i think indicator-me is going away
<seb128> kenvandine, can we merge that anyway and get a tarball in oneiric for the time it's still used?
<kenvandine> seb128, sure
<mterry> seb128, hrm, downgrading libido didn't fix the problem, so false alarm from that end.  but my unity-panel-service is still broken.  still looking
<seb128> mterry, does it go down or what?
<mterry> seb128, yeah, panel keeps crashing and restarting
<mterry> killing the internet connection, which is annoying
<seb128> mterry, stacktrace?
<mterry> seb128, haven't been able to get one!  gdb isn't giving me anything useful
<mterry> no apport report or anything either
<seb128> weird
<rodrigo_> out for a bit, later all
<mterry> seb128, hrm, "just" an accessibility crash with libgail.  turning off a11y fixed it.  will file a bug
<seb128> ok
<dbarth> .away
<Beret> what can I remove in my home directory to have unity give itself a fresh start when i login?
<Beret> unity --reset is failing miserably
<jibel> mterry, this is bug 798074 , can you confirm it please ?
<jibel> mterry, I made it public
<mterry> jibel, sure.  I get the same behavior, though I did grab a different stacktrace.  Will comment and point to my stacktrace in case that helps
<jibel> mterry, see also bug 798078
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 798078 in unity "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__PARAM()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798078
<mterry> I reported bug 799836
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 799836 in gtk+2.0 "libgail crash in gail_widget_notify_gtk" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799836
<mterry> I'll mark mine a dup of 798078
<mterry> That's the same trace
<jibel> mterry, it seems to happen only on system upgraded from natty but not on fresh installation. That must be some obsolete lib left over after upgrade.
<jcastro> kenvandine: hey the -desktop team meetings are today or tomorrow?
<kenvandine> jcastro, tomorrow
<jcastro> ah, no wonder I can't find your meeting notes
<tedg> Is there a reason we're not on libjson-glib 0.13.4?  Or is it just that folks haven't had time to package it yet?
<dobey> tedg: you haven't packaged it yet :)
<dobey> tedg: and new version isn't in debian yet, i guess
<tedg> dobey, Solving it now :-)
<tedg> Stupid G_CONST_RETURN
<tedg> Anyone know how to suppress this error?  dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<james_w> tedg, DEBEMAIL=ted@example.com debuild IIRC
<bryceh> tedg, yep
<bryceh> tedg, update-maintainer
<james_w> or that :-)
<tedg> bryceh, I said "suppress" not "fix" ;-)
<bryceh> tedg, do you regularly suppress errors rather than fix them?  ;-)
<bryceh> tedg, did james_w's suggestion work?
<ricotz> hello, speaking of G_CONST_RETURN, i hope someone looks into gstreamer 0.10.35 :)
<tedg> bryceh, No, I never suppress, can you sponsor this for me when I'm done?
<tedg> bryceh, I didn't try, but I think that only works when doing the dch, right?
<tedg> Or maybe with a debuild -us -uc
<tedg> 'cause it'd try to sign it wrong.
<bryceh> -us just makes it unsigned, pretty sure it won't affect whether that error shows up
<tedg> Yeah, but I think that if you have DEBEMAIL=ted@example.com then it'll try to sign with the ted@example.com key and give that error with out it.
<bryceh> ah
<tedg> Okay, so I've got an updated Bazaar branch with the new version.
<tedg> Where do I propose that to be merged?
<tedg> Just to lp:ubuntu/json-glib?
<tedg> --review ubuntu-desktop?
<micahg> the check that's done is if DEBEMAIL has an ubuntu address, it errors if the maintainer doesn't have an Ubuntu address
<bryceh> tedg, to propose it getting merged subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the bug
<tedg> bryceh, Hmm, so I need a bug.
<tedg> bryceh, Can I make a merge request and make ubuntu-sponsors the approver?
<tedg> Will that show up in the patch pilot thingy?
<micahg> tedg: that should happen automatically for a merge into lp:ubuntu/foo
<bryceh> tedg, I think so lemme check
<bryceh> tedg, http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/packaging-guide/html/udd-sponsorship.html looks like the applicable doc for this case
<bryceh> which suggests what micahg's says.
<nixterrimus> Hello!  Anybody know if there are GTK+ 3 bindings for Ruby? I'd love to develop for ubuntu in Ruby.
<tedg> bryceh, micahg, Cool, thanks.
<tedg> Anyone know why dholbach didn't use lp-propose-merge?
<tedg> nixterrimus, I believe there is support for GObject Introspection in Ruby, which would provide GTK+ 3 bindings.  I've not used it though.
<nixterrimus> Is it ok to continue GTK 2 apps using Ruby?
<bryceh> tedg, might want to ask dholbach directly
<tedg> nixterrimus, In general yes.  They probably won't be allowed on the default CD with GTK 2.
<tedg> nixterrimus, I would expect Ubuntu will continue to ship GTK 2 for quite a while.
<nixterrimus> tedg, would ruby be a bad choice for developing an App for the software store right now?
<tedg> bryceh, You guys are poor proxies for dholbach ;-)
<bryceh> tedg, indeed
<tedg> nixterrimus, No, not really.  It's not hugely popular, so it might be more difficult to find tutorials and such, but there are no language requirements.
<micahg> I think xubuntu will need GTK 2 until at least 13.04, if you need a reference point :)
<nixterrimus> Is Python a better choice then?  I'm a Rails developer by day so Python isn't too much of a stretch
<tedg> nixterrimus, For supportability yes.  Most of the Ubuntu specific utilities are written in Python for instance (the installer, apport, etc.)
<tedg> nixterrimus, There's also a "Rails Like" GUI builder utility in Python called Quickly.
<nixterrimus> tedg, thanks I'll have to check that out
<dobey> nixterrimus: you're writing an app to sell in the store, or a foss app to ship in Ubuntu?
<nixterrimus> dobey, I'm not sure yet, I'm trying to get to the hello world state.  After that I have lots of ideas
<nixterrimus> Does writing a GUI using something other than GTK preclude an app from being included in the Ubuntu Software Center?
<stgraber> nixterrimus: nope
<nixterrimus> stgaber, so it looks like there's great ruby support for qt.  I could still use that and be included in the software center?
<stgraber> nixterrimus: yes, any app that ships with a .desktop file and is in the ubuntu archive will show up in the software center
<nixterrimus> stgraber: will using a non-gtk toolkit make the app feel weird? Can it feel totally natural to the user?
<stgraber> nixterrimus: I haven't tried running a QT app on gnome in a while. You'd have to try one to see how it looks/feels.
<nixterrimus> stgraber: I really appreciate your thoughts- sounds like I have some more research to do
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-21
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso RAOF robert_ancell : what are the chances we don't fly out this weekend? Anyone hear what the ash cloud is doing this weekend?
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: I have been thinking the same thing this morning.
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso RAOF most flights out of Adelaide are cancelled this morning. Everything was good until yesterday....
<TheMuso> Right, according to local papers here in Syd, all flights will be canceled out of Sydney this afternoon.
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: GAH! fingers crossed about dublin...
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> The best we can do is keep an eye on the news, and come the end of the week, to call our airlines and get info.
<TheMuso> Thats what I've decided to do anyway.
<bryceh> heh, sounds like a repeat of last time we were in dublin
<bryceh> hopefully no one gets stuck in europe like last time
<TheMuso> Dublin, or Brussles?
<bryceh> TheMuso, oh wasn't it dublin when the volcano blew?  lts's and sprints seem to bleed together after a while
<TheMuso> No, Brussles I believe.
<pitti> Good morning
<korben> goodmorning to all of u (here it's 8:11am)
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<ricotz> good morning
<pitti> didrocks: I'm great, thanks! how about you?
<pitti> hey ricotz, how is it going?
<ricotz> es geht ;)
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine, thanks :) Had to put my graphic card again in the hoven yesterday evening though ::
<didrocks> :/
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<pitti> urgh
<didrocks> but it fixed it again, so no complain for now
<didrocks> :)
<ricotz> i hope you are both fine
<ricotz> didrocks, interesting, are often would this work ;)
<didrocks> ricotz: we'll see, it's the second time right now. I put the same time than last time well it worked for 4 months. Let's see how it goes :)
<pitti> I guess the Apollo folks had to do crazy things like these all the time..
<didrocks> heh :)
<ricotz> didrocks, i have a broken card which suddenly stopped working (an old 7900gtx) perhaps this could work here too if the problem is similar
<didrocks> ricotz: what do you have as graphical effects? Apparently, the caracteristic are blue and white lines on screen (even from the first screen showing the constructor logo)
<ricotz> didrocks, in this case it isnt "initializing"/"booting", it stopped working overnight
<ricotz> i would think a broken lane might cause every symptom
<didrocks> probably yeah
<ricotz> didrocks, do you know if there are more ppa builders again soon? it is quite a queue already
<didrocks> ricotz: I don't really know, I know that was planned at some point, but I'm not sure something happened. However distros one are free, so better to work on distro? ;) https://launchpad.net/builders
<ricotz> didrocks, daily/test builds arent distro friendly ;)
<didrocks> ricotz: right, what are you working one for daily build btw? :)
<ricotz> this G_CONST_RETURN removal is blocking things a bit
<ricotz> didrocks, gnome-shell and dependencies
<didrocks> ricotz: oh, you are going on daily build now rather on . version?
<ricotz> didrocks, not really daily, but git builds -- but i am doing this since gnome-shell 2.29
<didrocks> oh ok
<TheMuso> Morning didrocks.
<TheMuso> didrocks: Maybe a new card is worth considering at this point. :)
<didrocks> hey TheMuso
<didrocks> TheMuso: yeah, the thing is my laptop hardware is quite oldâ¦ and the card still expensive, so I want to push it as far as I can :)
<didrocks> then, I'll certainly take a thinkpad :)
<didrocks> RAOF: is it known that nvidia-current wants to run away on upgrade? (working fine now with the 3 kernel)
 * TheMuso nods.
<didrocks> TheMuso: FYI, I pushed the qt-at-spi with fixed LICENSE in our ubuntu-desktop ppa, just porting now the Qt and QML patches to fix instability issue to Qt
<TheMuso> didrocks: Ok sweet.
<didrocks> then, rebuilding Qt, crossing fingers and such :-)
<pitti> aah, Radiance GTK theme \o/
<seb128> hey desktopers
<pitti> didrocks: as bug 799742 is currently making CD builds fail, would you have a minute to revie?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 799742 in gtk3-engines-unico "[MIR] gtk3-engines-unico" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799742
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<didrocks> pitti: sure, looking
<seb128> pitti, hey, thanks for the reminder ;-)
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> seb128: just barely in time before you showed up :)
<seb128> pitti, hum, do recommends make CD build fail? it was supposed to be a recommend
<seb128> (the theme)
<pitti> seb128: it's a depends of light-themes
<pitti> same as murrine
<pitti> for light-themes it makes sense, I think
<pitti> it -> depends:
<seb128> oh ok, I though ken said he would set it as a recommend until it's promoted
<seb128> to avoid that sort of issue
<seb128> well if didrocks can review it, it's better ;-)
<didrocks> no worry, the MIR should be quick to review
<didrocks> just pushing a candidate a11y Qt to our ppa first :)
<pitti> once it's in main, I'll rebuild CDs
<pitti> we haven't had an amd64 build in four days now, due to various component mismatches
<didrocks> ken is making a very shortâ¦ MIR :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is the ubufox package in a bzr branch as well, or just lp:ubuntu/ubufox? in the latter case, want me to update it to current trunk, to get the home page customization fix into oneiric?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<chrisccoulson> it's already in oneiric isn't it?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> i'm sure i uploaded it last week ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ooh, rad! thanks
<pitti> I'm great
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> yeah, there we go - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/oneiric-changes/2011-June/003118.html
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I thought you only merged the branch yesterday, and I didn't see a new upload then
<seb128> reading through http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-2.html ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: seems the last one is from 4 days ago already
<pitti> but it's in the changelog, so should be fine
<seb128> pitti, I'm wondering if we should create work items for GNOME updates next cycle to avoid that "flat effect"
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think it's all there :)
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<pitti> seb128: if many people are working on GNOME, i. e. it falls under the "do package updates" category, that's fine -- but not everyone is
<pitti> creating WIs for package updates is a bit excessive IMHO - it just creates even more WIs to keep track of
<pitti> but I won't stop you from creating them if you prefer
<pitti> but I'm more worried about getting some non-packging development done as well
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i was wondering the same for firefox updates too. ie, i already spent a big chunk of this cycle getting lucid and maverick ready for firefox 6, and none of that work had any WI's (which is why my progress appears to be a bit flat so far)
<seb128> pitti, no, I was just saying that if having a flat period is an issue we could solve that by adding work items for normal work
<pitti> and whether this is a time management issue, or GNOME 3 is buggier than we thought, or people have to work on other things, etc.
<pitti> seb128: I don't mind flat periods at all
<seb128> well I think we are getting lot of work done
<seb128> it just doesn't relfect in count of work items
<seb128> so maybe we are not good enough at listing all the things we have to do
<pitti> my worries is that we still have some 85 open WIs for a2
<pitti> if we had 15, and it would be flat for a week, I'd be entirely happy :)
<pitti> e. g. LibO packaging is blocked on upstream releases, default-email-client seems stuck, software-center-ui seems blocked on design feedback, etc.
<didrocks> override_dh_install:
<didrocks>         dh_install --fail-missing
 * didrocks hugs kenvandine :)
<seb128> lol
<pitti> and stuff like oneconf is probably just not getting manpower
<didrocks> (even if it's not really necessary when you only have one packageâ¦)
<didrocks> pitti: it's getting some work under cover (week-end mostly) :)
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I'm reading though the list, some should probably be moved to later iterations
<pitti> and http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-2.html#didrocks is just scary -- didrocks, please clone yourself three times
 * pitti hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti
 * didrocks hugs pitti
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<didrocks> done \o/
<seb128> didrocks, you can probably move the qa script and zg items to alpha3
 * seb128 hugs didrocks pitti
<pitti> didrocks2, didrocks3, didrocks4: welcome!
<didrocks> pitti: i hope that with the Qt one, it will go down a lot today :)
<pitti> cute!
<didrocks> seb128: right, those can be moved
 * didrocks hugs seb128 back
<seb128> didrocks, isn't the cd space qt splitting done?
<pitti> didrocks: do you think there are actually Qt modules left which we wouldn't need in a default install?
<didrocks> seb128: I still waiting a last one item for it, but we can close the wi, it will be minor anyway
<didrocks> pitti: just the -mysql one
<didrocks> pitti: but I fear that Qt scripts depends heavily on it
<didrocks> the other things are done, we only take the minimum
<pitti> libqt4-sql-mysql + libqt4-sql are 120 kB
<didrocks> so yeah, I'll close the WI for now as most if done, I'll keep -mysql somewhere in the etherpad
<didrocks> so maybe not worth the effort
<pitti> not worth spending significant effort (i. e. more than 15 mins) on it
<didrocks> ok, it will be more when I looked at the headers
<didrocks> so I'll close it!
<pitti> yay
<didrocks> with a little luck, I'll be able to close 4 WIs today
<didrocks> the lightdm will proably wait for the sprint
 * pitti hands a bucket of luck over to didrocks
<seb128> pitti, mterry: I've dropped the deja-dup mir linking from the spec
<seb128> it was counting 2 workitems for deja-dup and duplicity mirs which have already been approved
<seb128> those are listed in the whiteboard as well anyway
<pitti> for those cases I actually prefer keeping the bug and dropping the whiteboard item (then the WI will be done when the MIR gets processed)
<pitti> but *shrug*, no biggie
<seb128> pitti, well, the bugs are "in progress" so they show as todo where they got acked
<pitti> seb128: oh, that means we can promote?
<seb128> pitti, I think they are done but pending on having them seeded or something
<seb128> pitti, no, there is a third one which has been bounced back to doko yesterday
<pitti> ah, ok
<seb128> but I think that should doable today if doko review it
<seb128> it was just ubuntu-couch to use dh_python2
<didrocks> ok, unico built. All is fine expect that COPYING is LGPL2.1+ and headers are LGPL2+, so technically, it's ok, just weird, I'll ask Cimi to fix it for the next release but won't block on that
<seb128> mpt, hi, do you know when bug #588200 will have a design?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 588200 in system-config-printer "Replace standard printing applet with indicator" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588200
<didrocks> pitti: MIR done and promoted
<pitti> didrocks: merci beaucoup
<didrocks> avec plaisir :)
<seb128> pitti, do you know why "topic-oneiric-xubuntu" shows up on our page?
<didrocks> kenvandine: just look at the license comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk3-engines-unico/+bug/799742 please when you will be there
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 799742 in gtk3-engines-unico "[MIR] gtk3-engines-unico" [High,Fix released]
<pitti> didrocks: did you actually change-override.py it? if so, the bug can be closed
<didrocks> pitti: it is closed, isn't it?
<pitti> seb128: I don't know; I didn't set up the topics, that was kate; presumably becuase it's still desktop land (just not canonical desktop team)
<seb128> pitti, ok
<pitti> didrocks: "fix committed"
<didrocks> pitti: you should reload :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, now; sorry for the noise :)
<didrocks> no worry :)
<seb128> pitti, ok, reviewing the WIs it's lot of small and side ones and email client still having lot of todos
<didrocks> I fix committed until I change-override normally, but that's just me being picky in case I'm distracted during the promotion and jump on other things :)
<seb128> it's all chrisccoulson fault :p
<seb128> though a11y has quite some as well
<pitti> and LibO
 * pitti applauds didrocks' thorough transactional workflow
<chrisccoulson> seb128, can i defer the blame to someone else? ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: always!
<chrisccoulson> like, ted. libindicate is being a pain, so it's all ted's fault!
<didrocks> everytime it all comes down to ted, poor ted :-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> pitti, right
<chrisccoulson> i keep getting empty indicators in the messaging menu with thunderbird, and i can't figure out what's going on :/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that's also the indicator stack taking CD space righT? :p
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is there a particular reason why /usr/lib/firefox-5.0/distribution/distribution.ini must have the version in it?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right now, we'd have to rebuild all customization packages with every firefox upgrade
<chrisccoulson> pitti - "version=1.0"?
<fta> chrisccoulson, same with liferea
<chrisccoulson> fta - i can't figure out if i'm doing something wrong or if it's an indicator issue
<chrisccoulson> and it doesn't help that the documentation is non-existant ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I mean, would it be possible to look in /usr/lib/firefox/ ?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i see what you mean
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, we could symlink it i guess
<pitti> chrisccoulson: or should I preemptively create symlinks to firefox-[6789].0?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - there is also /etc/firefox/syspref.js now, which can be used for setting preferences
<pitti> well, actually not symlinks -- opportunistic diversions rather
<chrisccoulson> (if that helps)
<zyga> hi
<zyga> any xchat-gnome users around?
<zyga> xchat-gnome segvfaults on startup since yesterday
<zyga> I added ubuntu-desktop/ppa to my system
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I thought that went away with 4.0
<seif__> seb128, didrocks as usual feel free to assign bugs from zeitgeist to me
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the global pref folder went away, but i added back a single pref file again
<seb128> hey seif__
<seif__> we ust worked out some big issues
<seif__> such as memory
<chrisccoulson> (it means that applications can't drop random preferences in there)
<seif__> and still working more
<didrocks> seif__: we have to discuss zg integration for while which aren't opened or just plugged usb key btw!
<didrocks> s/while/files
<pitti> chrisccoulson: well, WDYT is better -- using distribution.ini or syspref.js?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I could then ship /etc/firefox/pref/ubuntu-defaults-foo.js
<pitti> at least that seems to exist for apturl and software-center now
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, but that would only work for [Preferences], not for adding bookmarks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I need a [BookmarksToolbar]/[BookmarksMenu] category for that
<pitti> chrisccoulson: unless we want to hack omni.jar's profile in the default package's postinst?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, hang on, these are not just preferences, it's actual javascript code? then I guess I could do pretty much anything there
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, distribution.ini would be better for that. i'd rather not do anything with omni.jar, as it's ordered in a particular way by the build system
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the preference files are confusing. the parser doesn't actually understand javascript ;)
<chrisccoulson> perhaps i should just install firefox in to /usr/lib/firefox?
<chrisccoulson> that solves some of the current upgrade breakage too
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ^ only if you give up on the firefox metapackage and the firefox-X.Y packages and just name them "firefox", I think
<chrisccoulson> pitti - there are no firefox-X.Y packages anymore. there is a "firefox-trunk" package, but that installs in to /usr/lib/firefox-trunk-X.Y
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, so no omni.jar hacking; if syspref.js can't add arbitrary stuff like bookmarks, then I guess it is distribution.ini
<pitti> oh, right
<pitti> chrisccoulson: then, not much point in versioned paths either?
<chrisccoulson> i think the only reason we have a versioned path is because that is what "make install" gives you, but no other distro is actually using that path in their packages
<chrisccoulson> we're the only people not using /usr/lib/firefox
<pitti> is that hard to change?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'll have a look at changing that. first of all, i need to look at packages sync'd from debian which install browser plugins in to /usr/lib/firefox/plugins though
<chrisccoulson> i've always ignored those in the past because our firefox build ignores them :)
<chrisccoulson> but i want to make sure we don't have anything in the archive installing stuff in to /usr/lib/firefox which shouldn't be there, before i change anything
<chrisccoulson> pitti - eg, packages doing silly things like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanx-gtk2/0.3.9-2ubuntu3
<chrisccoulson> (although, i already fixed that one)
<didrocks> pitti: can I get extra kudos for Qt in the ubuntu-desktop ppa? seems that the build will start in 16 hours for i386
<didrocks> 18 hours on amd64
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, join the club! my daily builds are now every other day ;)
<pitti> didrocks: you are being mozilla-dailied, it seems
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm sure you are the guilty one! :)
<didrocks> yeah, this is the mozilla effect :)
<pitti> didrocks: nudged
<didrocks> pitti: Danke SchÃ¶n
<chrisccoulson> i uploaded these 22 hours ago - https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/thunderbird-aurora/+packages
<chrisccoulson> and they're still waiting ;)
<chrisccoulson> what happened to all the PPA builders?
<pitti> we apparently have fewer
<pitti> chrisccoulson: are these blocking you? I can bump their build score to make them jump the mozilla-daily queue
<pitti> chrisccoulson: i386 built, though
<pitti> daily maverick and lucid builds? that sounds a bit wasteful, though
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not too concerned about the daily builds. but i'm going to upload firefox 5 to the firefox-stable PPA in a bit, and that ones quite important as it's a security update for the current firefox-stable PPA users
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that uses the ubuntu buildds, right?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no, that one doesn't (the ubuntu-mozilla-security PPA does though)
<pitti> ah
<pitti> chrisccoulson: well, let me know if you need that bumped then
<chrisccoulson> eventually the firefox-stable PPA will go away, when all ubuntu releases are on the same version :)
<didrocks> am I the only one with a regularly hidden cursor? (particularly in gedit)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, I only see it sometimes in the terminal
<pitti> in the terminal it's a feature, though
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, thunderbird is telling me how much spam i have in the messaging indicator
<rodrigo_> pitti, is it?
<chrisccoulson> should probably fix that ;)
<pitti> it should go away as soon as you start typing, and come back when you move the mouse
<didrocks> rodrigo_: got that quite regularly
<pitti> in the past we had a hack called "unclutter" (it's still in the archive), but now it seems to be part of X/GNOME/whatever (I didn't check)
<rodrigo_> pitti, ah, right, but it just disappears completely sometimes, even when moving the mouse, and is back when the mouse is out the terminal window
<pitti> well, I love it; when that is broken, the mouse constantly gets in the way
<pitti> rodrigo_: ok, I don't get that
<rodrigo_> but only happens once in a while
<pitti> I have mouse in terminal; press a key -> pointer goes away; nudge the mouse -> comes back
<pitti> same in gedit indeed, nice
<pitti> doesn't work in firefox
<pitti> so I suppose it's somewhere in gnome, not X
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I know what's wrong regarding my workflow
<fta> didrocks, i see it too sometimes, i can usually type, but i don't see the block or vline cursor (not the mouse pointer pitti is talking about), i usually have to give the focus to another app, and go back to the text field to solve this
<didrocks> pitti: in gedit, press a key -> pointer goes away, use array keys to navigate, still not there until you move your mouse
<didrocks> fta: moving the mouse should work from what I see, the issue is when you navigate with arrow keys
<didrocks> s/array/arrow
<fta> i do switch between workspaces with the keyboard, and i use the follow focus mode
<seb128> pitti, I don't think there is an "unclutter" in GNOME
<seb128> pitti, the cursor hidding when typing is done by some widgets like text entries, it's not new, but it doesn't work accross the board
<pitti> seb128: ah, so the widgets do that themselves
<kinouchou> hello seb128, didrocks and  fredp
<seb128> lut kinouchou, ca va bien ?
<didrocks> salut kinouchou
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm sure my thunderbird issue is really a ted bug. sometimes it works fine and sometimes i just get an empty line in the indicator (and a lozenge with no count in it)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, don't spend too much time on bug fixing early in the cycle
<seb128> chrisccoulson, dx might have fixed those issues for you before it's debugging time
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, but i'd like it to work :)
<seb128> pitti, just for info I'm doing a manual run of the lucid retracers to clean the backlog of lucid bugs
<pitti> seb128: oh, thanks; I tried yesterday, but the chroots are broken
<pitti> seb128: I. e. you run that in the lucid dchroot?
<seb128> pitti, the amd64 is running fine for me
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> ah
<pitti> lucid fakechroot in natty dchroot seems broken
<seb128> right
<kinouchou> yep seb128  and you?
<seb128> pitti, that's why we commented the lucid lines in the map file
<seb128> pitti, they need to run under lucid and we didn't want to duplicate the directories and the cron job
<seb128> pitti, so I manually tweaked the map, run them by hand under lucid and will restore the natty map when i'm done
<seb128> kinouchou, I'm great thanks!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do we have some patch in firefox which would force the default search engine to Google? I set browser.search.defaultenginename="Wikipedia", and that appears in about:config, but it's still google
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that's also set in ubufox
<pitti> and if I set browser.search.order.1 to Wikipedia as well, it starts with Yahoo..
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I purged xul-ext-ubufox to rule that out
<chrisccoulson> pitti - right, it's google by default in firefox too
<chrisccoulson> but we can override them with browser.search.order.1 and browser.search.order.2 etc...
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so the browser.search.defaultenginename doesn't actually work?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: see above, I already tried that..
<chrisccoulson> i don't think so
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that should work
<pitti> could I set browser.search.selectedEngine?
<chrisccoulson> we shouldn't set that by default, as i think that's meant to be purely a user pref which only exists if the user changed their search engine
<pitti> that's what I tought
<pitti> thought
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you just try changing the other prefs in about:config, or somewhere else?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: in about:config, for testing
<pitti> oh, fun
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, in some cases that won't always work
<pitti> browser.search.order.1 == Bing works
<pitti> but == Wikipedia doesn't
<pitti> ok, I'll set it in distribution.ini then and play around with that; thanks so far
<pitti> browser.search.defaultenginename="Bing"
<pitti> browser.search.order.1="Bing"
<pitti> now it defaults to Amazon.de
<chrisccoulson> pitti - for some prefs, firefox will explicitly read the default value (and ignore any user value), although i'm not sure if that's the case here
<pitti> is that predictable in any way?
<pitti> almost sounds like an off-by-one error in the indexing
<pitti> no luck with "Wikipedia (de)" either, and /usr/lib/firefox-addons/searchplugins/de/bing.xml is also just "Bing" (no localized name)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, just setting browser.search.defaultenginename = "Wikipedia (de)" works here if I do it in about:config
<pitti> but that only seems to work as a per-user key
<pitti> not a system-wide key from distribution.ini
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm just trying to figure out how it works
<pitti> purged firefox-locale-de, but no difference :/
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm confused why browser.search.defaultenginename worked in about:config, but i can see why it doesn't work in distribution.ini
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh?
<chrisccoulson> you're hitting the same issues i had when i tried to migrate our distro preferences in to distribution.ini, which are:
<chrisccoulson> 1) The preferences are set after most things have started, and
<chrisccoulson> 2) from Firefox POV, they're actually not default preferences, but they appear as user preferences
<chrisccoulson> and firefox ignores the user value for defaultenginename
<pitti> hm, I thought browser.search.selectedEngine was the per-user one
<pitti> (setting that in distro.ini doesn't work either)
<chrisccoulson> does it also not change the value in about:config, or is it just that it has no effect?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so since there doesn't seem to be any way to do that in distribution.ini, could we make ubufox change it?
<chrisccoulson> if it's the latter, then you're hitting problem 1
<pitti> chrisccoulson: about:config is correct wrt. distribution.ini, but doesn't have an effect
<chrisccoulson> ok, that's problem 1, i that the pref is set after the search service has initialized :(
<pitti> even setting browser.search.selectedEngine reflects in about:config, but doesn't have an effect
<pitti> ah, how bad
<chrisccoulson> that one is confusing
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is that a bug or a feature? (the wrong order)
<chrisccoulson> i'll need to think a bit more about this. overriding preferences seems to be very problematic at the moment (even from ubufox, as we get issues like bug 784542, which are a consequence of extensions being loaded after the pref service has already initialized)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 784542 in firefox "Firefox forgets middlemouse.contentLoadURL on every restart (dup-of: 548866)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784542
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 548866 in firefox "forgets middlemouse.contentLoadURL on upgrade or browser restart" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548866
<chrisccoulson> brb, i need to restart. compiz is behaving like it's filled with glue
<pitti> heh
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so I'll leave that for now
<pitti> it's not a blocker right now
<chrisccoulson> oh, my battery is so going to die at the rally next week
<chrisccoulson> 47.1% capacity yesterday, and 43.5% capacity today
<chrisccoulson> i get the annoying g-p-m warning on every login now (your battery is about to die and the world is going to end)
<chrisccoulson> i guess it's not helped by the fact that natty and oneiric use so much power :/
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: but we are getting linux kernel 3, now with more power and better access to the internet?
<chrisccoulson> i guess that because 3 > 2 then the new kernel will use 50% more power? ;)
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if i can get hold of a new battery before the weekend :/
<chrisccoulson> i get about 25 minutes on my laptop atm ;)
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: that is awesome...it is effectively 25 minutes better than a desktop
<jasoncwarner_> nice
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> that's a good way to put a positive spin on things :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no AC brick?
<pitti> well, obviously you have one
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i just have to stay connected to it permanently atm
<pitti> I mean, at the rally
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: Always look on the light side of life
<jasoncwarner_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i might actually have to bring the AC brick i have connected to my docking station, as opposed to the more slimline charger
<chrisccoulson> it's double the power ;)
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, lol ;)
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: I can't see that in Germany -- is it the Monty Python song in Life of Brian?
<jasoncwarner_> yeah...
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: you can't see it in germany? I thought only AU was held out of seeing interesting web clips....
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, thunderbird seems to behave differently when i use chromebug. i may have to resort to logging some console messages instead to figure out why things aren't working :/
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the good thing is that it shows an indicator also for non-Inbox messages :P
<chrisccoulson> does evolution do that? ;)
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, how does this work when I have 30 folders like I do?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, the spec says we should only show 6 folders, which it currently ignores. i'm still working out how we should handle that
<chrisccoulson> note, it only displays an indicator for mail folders which get a new message
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do you want me to file a bug report for the non-working browser.search.defaultenginename, or is there one already?
<chrisccoulson> i'll probably collapse them in to per-account indicators and combine the counts, or something like that
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, but I don't want my indicator to turn blue for every new email received in -changes
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if it's too hard to fix in ffox itself, we might put a workaround into ubufox? I don't mind making the package depend on ubufox if the user specifies a default search engine
<chrisccoulson> pitti - does it not work if you set it in /etc/firefox/syspref.js either?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: let me try
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the issue is that overriding browser preferences from extensions in general seems to be a bit fragile, due to the fact that extensions don't exist when most of the browser starts
<chrisccoulson> i think we're abusing the preference system a bit :)
<pitti> hm, if "default search engine" isn't a preference, what is?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: doesn't work in syspref.js either
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that sounds like a bug then. looking at the pref code, it looks for the default engine there first, and then falls back to search order if it doesn't contain a valid engine (or it contains a hidden engine)
<chrisccoulson> s/pref code/search code/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll file it then
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, damn you jsctypes!
<chrisccoulson> i didn't realize when a C function returns a string, i need to actually convert it back to a jsval
<chrisccoulson> aha, https://developer.mozilla.org/en/js-ctypes/js-ctypes_reference/CData#readString%28%29
<chrisccoulson> wooh, t'works!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, speaking of which I need to check, I noticed that evolution-indicator has a gconf key to watch only the inbox set to true by default
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so it might do other boxes as well ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> i can add a pref too :P
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you better find CD space first :p
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, it just monitors the inbox, that explains why it didn't show correct data for me
<seb128> rodrigo_, right
<seb128> it's njpatel's fault
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> I changed the gconf key let's see how it goes
<seb128> the description mentions "notifications", dunno if that applies to the indicator as well
<chrisccoulson> what's the key?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, /apps/evolution/eplugin/evolution_indicator/only_inbox
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> ok, I could stop being lazy and grep the code :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not sure how tb handle that but another thing I don't like is that it clears the counts when evolution is focussed
<seb128> clearing the indicator color is fine but it should keep the counts to the unread ones
<chrisccoulson> seb128, for thunderbird, it clears the counts when you select the folder and read an unread message (rather then focusing it)
<chrisccoulson> clearing the count is part of the spec
<didrocks> seb128: it works like that last time I checked
<seb128> didrocks, "like that" being?
<seb128> it keeps the count?
<didrocks> seb128: if you don't check "only inbox", you will have the sum and notification of all folders
<seb128> oh ok
<didrocks> which I don't want, with -changes and other mailing list, I don't want to be spammed every 30sâ¦
<seb128> why is that not the default?
<chrisccoulson> the count is meant to indicate the number of unread messages since you last viewed the mailbox
<seb128> didrocks, the spec says it should do it up to 6 boxes
<didrocks> seb128: the design on the wiki told to only check the inbox
<seb128> didrocks, no, it says to display all the boxes up to 6
<didrocks> I think it was 6 inboxes, aren't it?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm following what's on the wiki, rather than what evo does :)
<didrocks> ok, anyway, it's all boxes, which is suboptimal anyway :)
<chrisccoulson> we could probably add a "ignore messages with this header" for the -changes spam use-case
<seb128> ideally you would opt in boxes you care about
<seb128> but I guess we are in geek land
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<seb128> normal users have an inbox only ;-)
<chrisccoulson> that's adding a lot of complexity too. i want to get the basics working first :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, that inbox_only preference is buggy
<seb128> I just got a notification that I receive 2 new messages and the icon turned blue
<didrocks> seb128: oh really? was working in last november IIRC
<seb128> but there is no box which contains messages listed
<seb128> it still list only my inbox in the indicator
<didrocks> I remember to fix something in that area
<didrocks> hum
<seb128> well maybe I should restart the indicator ;-)
<seb128> the unity icon has a count of "2" though which is right
<didrocks> seb128: more possible that you have to restart the indicator
<didrocks> more than possible*
<seb128> ok
 * didrocks just implemented oneconf sync and push to a mock infra (file-based, will be better for auto tests)
<didrocks> hum, need to send dbus signal and bind that with my mainloop now
<seb128> ok, lucid retracing backlog cleared, retracer back on natty, oneiric mode
<didrocks> qt successfully built \o/ Let's see :)
<lool> Hey folks
<lool> I'm having some issues lately and wanted to discuss some solutions
<didrocks> hey lool
<chrisccoulson> hi lool
<lool> First, ssh-agent isn't started anymore on desktop login; it seems /etc/lightdm/Xsession doesn't set OPTIONFILE like /etc/X11/Xsession does, and this breaks the scripts from /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<lool> (hey didrocks, chrisccoulson!)
<lool> The easy fix would be to set OPTIONFILE=/etc/X11/Xsession.options in /etc/lightdm/Xsession, but it doesn't feel quite right; I have to challenge why lightdm is not using /etc/X11/Xsession but its own?
<didrocks> I know that robert wanted to check one by one each file sourced and only include them if really needed to reduce clutter (as there is no standard way as of today), so better to check this with him
<lool> Xresources don't appear to be setup properly; I get reversed video in xterm, I suspect it's the same Xsession thing
<didrocks> probably, there is a similar discussion about /etc/environment which isn't source as of today for the same reason
<lool> The concept of /etc/X11/Xsession.d is that you drop a file there and it get picked up; it's a bit heavy because it's shell-ish, but ISTR that pitti had timed a login and it didn't seem that bad when compared to other session startup pigs (nautilus, compiz and gnome-panel back then)
<lool> I don't really see how sourcing Xsession.d scripts one by one would work: they rely on stuff provided by /etc/X11/Xsession and we'd have to duplicate the whole interface
<didrocks> lool: right, I know, and all our session systems (gconf path, compiz profile) are relying on that. it's still sourced because I showed that to robert, not source about /etc/X11/Xsession directly though
<didrocks> s/source/sure
<lool> I do sympathize with revisiting the whole Xsession.d approach, but less with a lightdm-specific solution
<didrocks> lool: I think for those, it will be easier to directly speak with robert (maybe as a sprint goal? see which files needs to be sourced)
<didrocks> agreed
<lool> Note that Linaro is not coming to the rally; I am however coming for a couple of days
<lool> (Wednesday - Friday)
<lool> didrocks: Yeah, sorry for using you as a mirror to discuss the changes; I'll copy-paste the chat to Robert
<didrocks> lool: can you write that somewhere so that it's on the agenda? (also the etherpad in /topic can be a nice place to write that down)
<lool> davmor2: added to pad; thanks
<lool> err s/davmor2/didrocks
<lool> davmor2: sorry
<didrocks> :)
<rodrigo_> ok, lunch time, bbl
<lool> (terminal being reversed makes it almost unreadable  :-)
<lool> didrocks: Ok; now for a compiz one  :-)
<pitti> lool: or, rather, I took the expensive bits out and change them from external programs to shell builtins :)
<lool> didrocks: start xterm, and Ctrl-click on it to open an embedded menu
<lool> pitti: ISTR that your conclusion was that we could keep it as it and still get decent login speed; but then maybe we hit the point where this isn't true anymore
<pitti> right
<pitti> lool: well, that was true with the Xsession.d scripts we had back then
<lool> pitti: I feel Xsession.d duplicates other mechanisms we have and there is overlap betweem all the systems we want to support (GNOME, XDG, compiz, Xsession.d) but Xsession at least had the merit to try to be desktop agnostic; it does a bit too much to my taste, but I currently can't live without it
<pitti> the ones shipped by x11-common are alright now
<seb128> lut lool
<lool> seb128: hey!
<seb128> lool, do you know why gdm has its own Xsession script? ;-)
<lool> pitti: You have to wonder whether it's right to run ssh-agent for instance
<seb128> lool, I think robert_ancell didn't want to just copy old way to do things without understanding why they are done and if we could do better
<pitti> lool: I don't see anything heavyweight in my Xsession.d/ right now; most scripts just set some extra variables and do some stating
<lool> seb128: I think it's because they don't have a common one in all distros, so they just provide one
<didrocks> lool: hum, you mean the xterm warning?
<lool> didrocks: sorry, got interrupted; now move your mouse to highlight the entries
<pitti> lool: ssh-agent was indeed one of the remaining nontrivial things, and we discussed it extensively back then; but we didn't find a better way to deal with it
<lool> didrocks: some black (or white?) lines persist in the menu after highlight/dehighlight
<didrocks> lool: Ctrl + click gave me a warning and no menu at all
<pitti> lool: also, it takes way less than 0.1 seconds even on the slow Atom in the mini 10
<seb128> lool, better to drop an email to robert_ancell or open bugs for things you have issues with
<lool> didrocks: wow
<didrocks> Warning: Cannot convert string "-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-normal--*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*" to type FontStruct
<seb128> lool, I think he will bring back was is needed but he wanted to do it only after understanding the reason and trying to figure if we can do better
<davmor2> lool: forgiven don't do it again ;)
<didrocks> so I can't even got as far as you are :)
<lool> pitti: there's also a gpg-agent, right?
<seb128> gnome-keyring is the gpg agent nowadays
<lool> there's also handling of user resources and xsession -- that's ok
<pitti> lool: I think we eliminated that
<lool> pitti: I have one running here, maybe I start it in some other way
<pitti> lool: oh, it's in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60seahorse-plugins, right
<pitti> lool: we just don't install seahorse-plugins by default
<seb128> pitti, that's deprecated
<lool> there's also use-session-dbus
<seb128> pitti, gnome-keyring3 does gpg
<pitti> seb128: oh, nice
<pitti> indeed, seems to be a no-op, and seahorse-plugins is empty
<lool> pitti: I guess I'm looking at a relatively old system which I upgraded over the years
<seb128> pitti, seems like you just have seahorse-plugins uninstalled and we don't clean the conffile as we should?
<lool> didrocks: sounds like something sets a font which isn't available...
<lool> didrocks: that's likely in your system-wide or user X resources
<lool> You can try setting XTerm.VT100.faceName
<seb128> pitti, do you want to review https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/language-selector/oneiric/+merge/64270
<seb128> ?
<seb128> pitti, it's a lightdm dmrc support for l-s
<didrocks> lool: I will shortly, I put what you told in a note. Will be an easy way to see if there is missing destructor events
<lool> Now another small one I wanted to mention: some packages don't appear to have followed transitions: rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store seems uninstallable for some weeks now; indicator-applet seems to rely on old libpanel-applet -- I guess that's just a NBS rebuild away; I've pushed it to my PPA to see
<lool> didrocks: Thanks; I would have liked someone to reproduce before I file a bug; I could try downgrading xterm to see if it's a recent regression, but history was relatively hard against compiz in the last months  ;-)
<pitti> lool: rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store needs porting to GTK3 and GI, so I added a breaks to RB 3
<seb128> lool, right, the music store is having an issue that they try to support 2 players on different gtk versions :p
<didrocks> lool: right, but compiz didn't change a lot since natty this time, but it can be guilty of course ;)
<lool> pitti: is this on the plate of the U1 team?
<lool> seb128: ah I see what you mean
<pitti> that'd be my gut feeling, yes
<seb128> lool, indicator-applet is not "just a NBS", gnome-panel switched to gtk3 so the indicator stack needs to be ported to GTK3
<lool> They want to support backports but can't backport gtk+ to e.g. lucid
<lool> gtk+-3.0 that is
<seb128> lool, it's ongoing work and should land before the end of the rally, but it's far from being trivial work
<lool> Ok; I understand why these were held up for so long now
<seb128> lool, we need to dual build every lib for gtk2 and gtk3 and then port and dual build every indicator
<seb128> lool, unity is still on gtk2 as well, the next upload will be gtk3
<seb128> lool, it's coming together, just took some work ;-)
<seb128> lool, since you can't load gtk2 and gtk3 from a same process it's making those transition so fun game ;-)
<pitti> do we really need dual builds?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> xfce is on gtk2
<pitti> do we still need to support GTK2 indicators in oneiric?
<pitti> oh
<lool> seb128: Yeah, I undestand  :-/
<seb128> pitti, did you see my language-selector ping? or should I rather ask mvo about those? not sure who is maintaining l-s nowadays
<seb128> pitti, https://code.launchpad.net/~gilir/language-selector/lubuntu-integration/+merge/64917 as well, seems trivial but I'm not sure how the pkg list works there
<lool> xfce > ouch
<lool> do they have a gtk3 plan?
<pitti> seb128: no, I didn't see your ping; I still don't see it, was it here?
<seb128> pitti, 14:35 "<seb128> pitti, do you want to review https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/language-selector/oneiric/+merge/64270 "
<seb128> " pitti, it's a lightdm dmrc support for l-s"
<lool> Ok; last minor cut is some icon issues on the lightdm greeter; the top right corner has two broken icons when I remove gnome-icon-theme-full
<charlie-tca> xfce plan is to use gtk2 through Xfc3 4.10, which is due in January
<pitti> seb128: l-s is a shared thing these days between GunnarHj, mvo, and me
<mvo> seb128: I'm fine doing work on it, however answers first I guess :)
<seb128> lool, bug #796793
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 796793 in lightdm "accessibilty and shutdown menu are missing icons" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/796793
<pitti> seb128: I can have a look
<lool> thanks
<seb128> charlie-tca, so next cycle for the lts you will be on gtk3 right?
<seb128> hey mvo ;-) deal with pitti I guess ;-)
<seb128> pitti, mvo: not sure if the lubuntu request on https://code.launchpad.net/~gilir/language-selector/lubuntu-integration/+merge/64917 would make l-s install chromium though?
<seb128> or is it smart to just install the translations matching what you have installed?
<pitti> seb128: no, it won't -- it's magic!
<pitti> seb128: in particular, this says:
<pitti> tr::chromium-browser:chromium-browser-l10n
<seb128> I guess it checks for the first package to install the second?
<charlie-tca> no, it looks like gtk2 for 12.04
<seb128> charlie-tca, no way
<pitti> "If the package chromium-browser is installed, then install chromium-browser-l10n-LANG"
<pitti> seb128: correct
<seb128> pitti, great ;-)
<charlie-tca> seb128: that is the current plan for xfce
<seb128> charlie-tca, well you better figure a way to do without anything from Ubuntu then I guess, we will not keep dual build for indicators etc in the lts
<pitti> seb128: that's a lot more flexible and dynamic than our old static language-support-* stuff, which required everything to be in main, and was only really useful for packages in the standard install
<charlie-tca> They are looking at january 2013 to go to GTK3
<seb128> pitti, indeed, seems great ;-)
<seb128> 2 years to port to gtk3? doh :-(
<charlie-tca> seb128: Thanks for the heads up. I have hopes they will go to gtk3 earlier
<seb128> lool, speaking about the lightdm greater, it's really an hello world greater to allow log in ;-)
<seb128> bah bug #800136
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800136 in gnome-control-center "Minimized panel in thumbnail screen is a gnome-shell panel " [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800136
<pitti> seb128, mvo: merged, uploading now
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<mvo> thanks!
<seb128> pitti, did you merge gunnar's lightdm one as well?
<pitti> no, seems I missed that from IRC, too
<lool> seb128: Sure
<seb128> pitti, hum, do you filter me out? I copied it again after you said you missed the first ping
<seb128> pitti, 14:35 and 14:15 in the channel
<seb128> ups
<seb128> 14:15
<seb128> 14:45
<seb128> can't type!
<pitti> ah, seems I thought you just repeated gilir's one
<seb128> no, that was the first ping you missed ;-)
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/language-selector/oneiric/+merge/64270
<pitti> seb128: doing
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~evfool/synaptic/fix791135/+merge/63092
<seb128> mvo, can you review that one?
<seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~evfool/synaptic/fix206555/+merge/63100 as well
<seb128> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~evfool/synaptic/fix157574/+merge/63104
<seb128> mvo, sorry, cleaning the sponsoring list a bit ;-)
<mvo> seb128: sure thing!
<seb128> mvo, danke!
<pitti> seb128: are you piloting today?
<seb128> pitti, I was yesterday it seems but I missed it so I will pilot this afternoon in exchange
<seb128> so "yes" ;-)
<mvo> seb128: autopliot, eh?
<seb128> bigon, hi, do you think you could update json-glib in debian? tedg did the update in https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/ubuntu/oneiric/json-glib/0.13.4/+merge/65263 but I would prefer staying in sync if we can
<seb128> (0.13.2 to 0.13.4)
<didrocks> orca seems to tell that it's happy with Qt a11y :)
<didrocks> for people waiting to test: install qt and qt-at-spi from the ubuntu-desktop ppa
<didrocks> then, by default, a11y isn't activated
<didrocks> if you want to activate it: export QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1
<didrocks> (should make some application a little bit more crashy, but it's acceptable for now)
<lool> Turns out that the xterm reverse video issue was a separate one
<lool> reported LP #800193 and LP #800192, first has a patch
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800193 in lightdm "Bogus handling of Xresources dir" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800193
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800192 in lightdm "Sources Xsession.d but doesn't setup required env vars" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800192
<lool> second has a workaround
<RAOF> didrocks: Yes, it's known that upgrades will want to remove nvidia-current ATM.  nvidia-current needs to be updated to handle the multiarch mesa, so it'll be broken until that happens.  I've sent a patch to tseliot; it should be soon.
<didrocks> RAOF: nice to know! ;) how come you are not sleeping btw? ;)
<seb128> mvo, should bug #798882 be acked?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 798882 in gdebi "Sync gdebi_0.8~exp2 (main) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798882
<mvo> seb128: probably, let me double check
<RAOF> didrocks: I'm not as far in the future as normal; I'm in Perth at the moment :)
<didrocks> RAOF: oh ok :-)
<seb128> be careful, you might land in an european tz soon if you keep it this way!
<RAOF> Heh.  I'll be in one in 5 days anway!
<ogra_> hmm, is bug 798546 g-p-m or libindicator ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 798546 in gnome-power-manager "No Battery state indicator in Unity Panel " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798546
<bigon> seb128: I'ill have a look
<seb128> bigon, thanks
<seb128> ogra_, likely gpm, pitti mention it, not worth debugging though both gpm and the status icon are going away this cycle
<seb128> hum, mention -> mentionned
<ogra_> uhm, but i will still see my battery charge thats left if on battery, right ?
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, you will have to guess it
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> ogra_, don't you get blinking leds on armel when the battery runs empty?
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<ogra_> seb128, well, i tend to adjust stuff like brightness etc based on the time left shown in the power statistics
<chrisccoulson> actually, why do you need that? isn't battery life on armel infinite?
<seb128> joke aside they are moving the service code to gnome-settings-daemon and dropping the status icon
<seb128> the indicator will become a proper indicator rather than a gpm patch then
<ogra_> right, so visually not much will change then
<seb128> so you will get an indicator and g-s-d doing the notification, key handling, etc
<seb128> no, but with some luck less bugs
<seb128> new code, cleaning, etc
<ogra_> chrisccoulson, my ac100 eats between 4 and 5W which means a difference of 2h runtime
<seb128> nessita, hey
<seb128> nessita, how are you?
<seb128> nessita, mvo: was there anything blocking https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-sso-client/dh_python2/+merge/64154 from just being uploaded?
<nessita> hey seb128! my power supplier is very unstable today, apparently
<ogra_> so adjusting power properties while checking the wattage really helps if i need longer battery time
<ogra_> chrisccoulson, btw, on your intel laptop your CPU alone eats 5W
<nessita> seb128: hum, I need to review that, let me do it asap
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, mine probably eats more than that!
<seb128> nessita, ok, thanks
<ogra_> heh
<chrisccoulson> battery life for me is closer to 2 minutes than 2 hours, literally ;)
<seb128> nessita, no hurry, I'm just patch piloting and it's in the review queue
 * highvoltage switched to SSD last week and got a whole extra hour \o/
<ogra_> and speedier disk accesses ;)
<highvoltage> for sure
<dobey> i wish 1.8" SSDs weren't so expensive
<didrocks> can anyone try the ubuntu-ppa with the new qt and tell me if they can still launch qmlviewer for instance?
<didrocks> (or unity-2d-panel)
<seb128> didrocks, you can't?
<seb128> didrocks, can do in a bit if nobody else does before ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: it's not working, seems to block on an unix socket read
<didrocks> seb128: thanks
<didrocks> seb128: first, please ensure it works for you before an upgrade :)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> not sure if it's a local issue, it seems to block everytime on the same socket
<seb128> didrocks, is i.e mumble blocking as well?
<didrocks> I tried to launch small Qt example, didn't try mumble, one sec
<didrocks> hum, mumble is blocking now, yeah
<didrocks> always on the same socket
<didrocks> on the read operation from this socket: connect(14, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path=@"/tmp/.ICE-unix/2085"}, 22) = 0
<seb128> didrocks, is there a binary I should get from the ppa or just upgrade?
<seb128> didrocks, when you say ubuntu-ppa it's ubuntu-desktop ppa?
<didrocks> seb128: just upgrade if you don't want to test accessibility, just the new qt with some accessibility add on
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, ubuntu-desktop/ppa
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> hum, it seems it's my current session which is screwed
<didrocks> can't launch a new instance of gedit
<seb128> ok
<nessita> seb128: the branch makes sense to me, though I'm not very familiar with dh_python2 so I'm not sure if there is any specific there that needs to be corrected
<didrocks> hey nessita
<nessita> hey didrocks!
<seb128> nessita, don't worry about that it's likely fine, I just wanted to check with you before uploading your package
<seb128> brb
<bigon> seb128: I've uploaded json-glib
<seb128> re
<seb128> bigon, thanks!
<bigon> mmmh gir pkg should be renamed gir1.2-json-1.0 instead of gir1.2-json-glib-1.0
<didrocks> re
<didrocks> hum, seems that the reboot made everything working well
<seb128> didrocks, so local issue ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, could you review, sponsor https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxguitar/+bug/797887 ?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 797887 in tuxguitar "Please merge tuxguitar 1.2-8 (universe) from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, kind of scary to have ICE blocking like thatâ¦
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure to understand why we need the 03-no-mozilla.patch, should that be sent to debian?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, we need that because we switched off mozilla support in swt-gtk
<seb128> hum ok, the changelog was not clear about that ;-)
<tseliot> RAOF, didrocks: my code for nvidia is ready, I'd like to do the same for fglrx and then upload
<didrocks> tseliot: excellent, thanks a lot :)
<tseliot> :)
<hrw> hello
<hrw> can someone help me with bug 793580?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 793580 in evolution "no way to set fixed-width font for reading emails" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/793580
<seb128> hrw, hi, try #evolution on irc.gnome.org?
<hrw> seb128: thx
<hrw> 17:00 [gnome] -!- ERROR Closing Link: hrw[unknown@255.255.255.255] (No more connections allowed in your connection class)
<hrw> 17:00 [gnome] -!- Irssi: Connection lost to irc.gnome.org
<hrw> ;(
<cyphermox> hrw: my guess is your messages are being displayed as HTML, not plain text. Plain text will show monospace correctly.
<seb128> hrw, try irc.gimp.org
<hrw> connected
<hrw> cyphermox: evo is set to display plain text
<hrw> cyphermox: and even for text/plain mails sans font is used
<cyphermox> ok
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting reminder in 4 minutes
<cyphermox> o/
<rodrigo_> pitti, getting ready :)
<didrocks> hey
<tremolux> hey!
 * pedro_ waves
<tremolux> hrm, can't seem to log into the wiki to post my update  :/
<didrocks> tremolux: took a lot of time for me
<didrocks> ubuntu sso seems to lag
<tremolux> didrocks: yeahp
 * kenvandine waves
<pitti> several people had wiki problems since the upgrade
<pitti> so, meeting time
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting starts
<rodrigo_> o/
<mterry> heyo
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-06-21
<chrisccoulson> hi!
<seb128> hey
<pitti> FYI, the burndown charts still have the wrong alpha-2 milestone end; they shoudl fix themselves over midnight UTC
<pitti> so let's dive right in with kenvandine
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> kenvandine: still fighting wiki-wars? :0
<pitti> :)
<kenvandine> sort of...
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> was in a meeting
<kenvandine> starting with U1
<kenvandine> they are going to make sure the sso fix breaking U1 in oneiric gets uploaded today
<kenvandine> and the ppa/release stuff we talked about last week...
<kenvandine> they will have something written up this week and make sure everyone is happy with it
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, do you have any update about desktopcouch brokenness in oneiric being fixed?
<kenvandine> i guess chipaca mentioned it in the release meeting last week, not sure what he had to say
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, i don't... didn't know it was broken
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, poing me to the bug and i'll make sure they are looking at it
<kenvandine> s/poing/point
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, I knew on Friday, will check with rye later, not sure if there was a bug
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> that is all i have for U1, and nothing really new for DX... besides a do over with tedg
<pitti> kenvandine: I followed up about the PPA issue, but no answer from U1 team yet
<kenvandine> he upgraded to oneiric and is doing releases now
<pitti> tedg: thanks for running oneiric!
<kenvandine> pitti, they have committed to having something documented for everyone to review this week
<tedg> pitti, Heh
<kenvandine> i got the first release from him just before the meeting, going through the whole stack
<kenvandine> oh, and the theme is uploaded now
<mterry> anything we need to do to use it?
<kenvandine> light-themes now includes Ambiance and Radiance gtk3 themes
<kenvandine> you need gtk3-engines-unico
<pitti> didrocks was kind enough to MIR it, so it's in today's images (I rebuilt them after they failed this morning)
<kenvandine> which is pending a MIR
<kenvandine> woot
<pitti> but it isn't set as the default theme yet
<mterry> kenvandine, but I mean to turn it on
<mterry> ah
<pitti> that still seems to be adwaita
<didrocks> kenvandine: I had some comments on it, please make sure to read it and follow up with Cimi
<kenvandine> will do
<pitti> or is that because I have gnome-themes-standard installed?
<kenvandine> no idea... perhaps
<pitti> will purge and re-test
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> i'll test on a live iso too
<kenvandine> pitti, so do the isos have it now?
<seb128> mterry, turn it on in dconf-editor ;-)
<pitti> kenvandine: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20110621/ should have them
<kenvandine> awesome
<kenvandine> thx
<pitti> ah, I used gnome-tweak-tool to enable Radiance
<kenvandine> that is all i have
<pitti> that worked
<mterry> seb128, I looked, the key I thought it would be (/desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme) already said Ambiance
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks; mind to add that to the wiki, too?
<tkamppeter> hi
<kenvandine> pitti, i will
<seb128> mterry, you want org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme
<seb128> mterry, i.e dconf, not gconf
<seb128> kenvandine is supposed to update ubuntu-artwork to move the gconf-default to a gsettings-override but he didn't do it yet ;-)
<pitti> kenvandine: thank you!
<mterry> seb128, sure, that's what I'm looking at.  But dconf has paths too, and the path for the org.gnome.desktop schema is /desktop/gnome
<kenvandine> seb128, indeed :)
<pitti> didrocks already sent the report to the wiki; great job on Qt a11y!
<didrocks> thanks :)
<pitti> looking forward to see GTK3 unity, too
<didrocks> testers needed!
<pitti> didrocks: anything to discuss?
<mterry> whatever, can deal with this after meeting
<didrocks> nothing in addition to what I wrote :)
<seb128> right
<pitti> didrocks: apt-get dist-upgrade should be everyone's morning/evening gymnastics
<didrocks> pitti: it's in the ppa right now
<didrocks> not oneiric
<didrocks> just waiting to ensure that we have no regression
<didrocks> the backport is approximatly 100 commits
<didrocks> so quite intrusive :)
<didrocks> I'll let it staging for 2/3 days before pushing in oneiric
<pitti> didrocks: will upstream backport that as well, or just to 4.8, and we keep the backport ourselves?
<pitti> didrocks: 4.8 is not possible/adequate for oneiric?
<didrocks> pitti: upstream helped us to backport 4.8 to 4.7, but there is no official support. However, they told me they wanted to help us as far as they can
<didrocks> pitti: it's more horrible than that, it's a 4.8 branch with some 5.0 features that we stripped together
<didrocks> pitti: 4.8 has still an unkown release date, and talking with them at the summit about our feature freeze calendar, they confirmed that it's safer to plan on 4.7
<didrocks> (4.7.4 should be out soon)
<pitti> ack
<pitti> I'm just a little worried because they wouldn't include the a11y patches in their QA for point releases
<pitti> that sounds like a non-negligible source of problems/regressions?
<didrocks> pitti: no, that's the downside, however, right now, the accessibility code is only activated under certain condition (env var, but soon, the dbus activation), so we should be safe for integrating regression on non accessibility side
<pitti> didrocks: in general, does Qt come with a comprehensive test  suite, or does upstream have a separate secret/manual procedure for this?
<didrocks> but yeah, with accessibility enabled, we can have some problems/regressions, hence this early test
<didrocks> pitti: they have a very extensive test suite. However, they don't ship it in the tarball
<pitti> ah, but in git? i. e. we have access to it?
<didrocks> I need to rediscuss about that with them, I found nobody to explain why
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> in git
<pitti> well, that's good enough
<pitti> thanks!
<didrocks> yw :)
<pitti> wiki vs. tremolux still 1:0?
<tremolux> pitti: haha, yes
<tremolux> I can summarize and post it after tho, sound good?
<pitti> tremolux: any news from the UX s-c design review?
<pitti> tremolux: go ahead
<tremolux> k
<tremolux>  * Software Center 4.1.6 released, UI enhancements and bug fixes
<tremolux>  * New Natty and Maverick SRUs currently in verification
<tremolux>  * Software Center 5.0 redesign by UX team continues, more user testing this week and delivery of final design to come next week at rally
<tremolux>  * And finally...great progress on GTK3 port by Matthew McGowan  \o/
<pitti> wohoo!
<rodrigo_> :)
<tremolux> pitti: knew you'd like that  :D
<tremolux> about the user testing, yes, they have completed the first round and a second round begins today (or has begun I expect)
<pitti> tremolux: I'm curious, how does "progress" look like?
<pitti> given that you probably can't even start the program until it's like 80% ported?
<tremolux> like, it works! but not totally pretty as a lot of the custom code has been removed for now
<tremolux> until we get the new design it doesn't make sense to go much farther I think
<pitti> ah, so you just dropped all gtk2-ish imports, and disable parts of it
<pitti> TBH I hadn't expected it to go that well
<tremolux> it's Matt McGowan's work, he rocks
<pitti> haven't heard a single OMGGTKBUG cry about this yet
<didrocks> (just a note that I talk to mpt to ensure they consider OneConf in the redesign, so it would be more work, but won't block the inclusion by default)
<tremolux> didrocks: ah, excellent!
<pitti> thanks tremolux; great progress!
<tremolux> thx pitti
<pitti> also, thanks everyone for doing some WI cleanup
<pitti> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-2.html already looks better today
<chrisccoulson> i need to do some WI cleaning soon ;)
<pitti> desktop-o-default-email-client still wins by far in terms of WI
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I guess there's quite a lot of upstream/m_conley work involved there? or is all of that on your plate?
<chrisccoulson> i guess i'm going to be very busy at the rally next week
<pitti> desktop-o-software-center-ui seems blocked on the UX feedback
<pitti> I asked jasoncwarner_ to cover desktop-o-accessibility-ubiquity in the Eastern edition
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-quickly
<pitti> mterry, didrocks: this is still blocked on the new LP features (sinzui's 4 WIs for alpha-2); do you happen to know the status of this?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i guess for the default-email one that there might be a bit of shifting around. i'm busy on the messaging menu work atm, as mike already has a lot on his plate
<mterry> pitti, no.  I assume it's still not done
<chrisccoulson> but those are a3 milestoned, and i'd really like to land them before a2
<didrocks> pitti: didn't have the time to track it done, it's been blocked for 3 cycles now
<pitti> mterry: so I'll just re-target these to a3, beta1, etc. until it's done, and postpone the spec accordingly?
<mterry> pitti, sure, on it
<mterry> pitti, oh, you're on it I mean
<pitti> mterry: (no action necessary right now)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yeah, I think at beta-1 is too late, it's after FF
<pitti> didrocks, mterry: well, there are still a bunch of non-blocked WIs, but I guess these are just a manpower issue
<mterry> yes
<pitti> but it's low priority, so deliberately a target of opportunity
<didrocks> right
<pitti> so no harm there when we have to postpone, except your pride :/
 * mterry has carefully cultivated a lack of pride for such instances
<pitti> kenvandine: how is the new gwibber coming along?
<kenvandine> very nicely!
<kenvandine> almost ready to upload
<pitti> yay
<pitti> kenvandine: any blockers due to new gtk/python etc?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> it's vala :)
<pitti> the current GTK 3.1.6 performance problem is quite a sucker
<kenvandine> yeah, not affecting gwibber
<pitti> lucky you :)
<pitti> ok, great
<seb128> pitti, where do you notice it?
<pitti> Sweetshark: are we still blocked on LibO 3.4.0/3.4.1 to actually release?
<kenvandine> empathy
<kenvandine> is the only place i have seen it
<seb128> oh, I'm using pidgin ;-)
<seb128> would explain
<pitti> seb128: empathy is unusable, but I've also seen long Evolution hangs
<mterry> i've seen problems in control center too (at least on deja-dup)
<kenvandine> oh... maybe that is why evo has been sucking this week
<pitti> kenvandine: try downgrading to 3.1.4 and compare
<seb128> mterry, right, I ran into it there
<kenvandine> pitti, i did for empathy
<pitti> Company knows about it, and said it's being worked on
<pitti> but no fix yet in upstream trunk
<kenvandine> yeah, i am following the bug
<Sweetshark> pitti: 3.4.0 still has some packaging issues: ~5 patches need rebasing, and most importantly we need an update for the service registration foo
<pitti> so in general, if anyone sees long GNOMEish program hangs in oneiric, it's probably that
<Sweetshark> pitti: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Passive_Component_Registration
<pitti> Sweetshark: oh, we modified that? or do you mean "we" as in Debian as well?
<rodrigo_> no hangs here, but some slowness seen in the last few days, indeed
<Sweetshark> pitti: we as in debian aswell
<pitti> ah
<pitti> Sweetshark: ok, it's not an alpha-2 blocker I think, we can easily move it to a3
<pitti> if it gets later than that (after FF), then we need to reconsider staying at 3.3, but let's do that discussion if/when we need it
<pitti> does anyone have any other topic? blockers? discussions? announcements?
<Sweetshark> pitti: I digged through the source today and got the theory straight, _rene_ might give the implementation a try tonight. hopefully theory will match up with relality.
<micahg> Firefox 5 should be going out to natty today
<Sweetshark> s/relality/reality/
<pitti> Sweetshark: high hopes :)
<seb128> small note, http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/oneiric-desktop has gconf and gtk2 rdepends on the CD lists
<pitti> micahg: ah, right; thanks for the additional l10 testing
<seb128> if anyone is interested in those
<seb128> I've started adding bug references as well
<tremolux> I wanted to thank pedro_ for his awesome work on the desktop bug summary page, super-helpful for us for s-c bugs!
<pitti> seb128: oh, I thought libgnome2-0 and friends are gone with dropping tomboy
<seb128> I will tag the bugs as well
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gtk3
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gsettings
<seb128> pitti, they are, gconf and gtk2 not yet though
<seb128> pitti, which is the ones I mentioned today ;-)
<pitti> yeah
<seb128> I cleaned the libgnomevfs list
<seb128> it's basically kept it by libreoffice and firefox
<seb128> their -gnome still use gnome-vfs and gio
<pitti> hm; nobody really tests gnomevfs any more
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll need to distro-patch gnomevfs out of firefox
<pedro_> tremolux, you're welcome! :-)
<Sweetshark> pitti: btw that might also make postinst hooks superflous that patch around the services.rdb after install, which is icky and errorprone. Instead we will just have multiple service.rdbs.
 * tremolux hugs pedro_
<chrisccoulson> seb128, could you report a bug and assign it to me, so it doesn't fall off my radar?
 * pedro_ hugs tremolux back
<chrisccoulson> or just keep pinging me on IRC ;)
<pitti> Sweetshark: and those are then just static XML files, instead of "real" databases?
<Sweetshark> pitti: right
<pitti> nice
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ping
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ping
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ping
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, let me know when I can stop :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, careful, i might do that back to you and then change my IRC name
<chrisccoulson> so you get a stuck indicator ;)
<seb128> that bug should get a CVE or something ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's basically a DoS
<pitti> aaanyway
<pitti> sounds like the meeting is over :)
<chrisccoulson> don't tell mdeslaur
<pitti> thanks everyone! looking forward to seeing all of you next week
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I hit that bug the other day :-/
<rodrigo_> yeah!
<pitti> at the beer drinking rally (this is Dublin after all..)
<tremolux> thanks everybody!
<chrisccoulson> micahg, yeah, it's a total PITA ;)
<pedro_> thanks!
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm looking forward to some guinness!
<fta> pitti, just saw "chromium-browser-l10n-LANG" mentioned above, what's about it? is it needed?
<pitti> fta: it's just chromium-browser-l10n, sorry
<pitti> fta: latest language-selector will now auto-install it if you have chromium installed
<fta> oh, good
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<fta> pitti, thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: NACK for guiness!
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> looking forward to the guiness!
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson, seb128: huh? CVE for what?
 * mdeslaur has got enough CVEs as it is...
<seb128> mdeslaur, xchat-gnome's indicator being stupid with nicknames changes
 * pitti chuckles how you can make the security team jump up and down
<chrisccoulson> heh
<pitti> mdeslaur: *hug*
<seb128> it doesn't clear the highlight if the contact changes nickname before you read the message
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, messaging indicator DoS ;)
<chrisccoulson> you have to restart the indicator service don't you?
<seb128> mdeslaur, so you have no way to clear the indicator blue color out of waiting for the contact to get the old nick back or restarting your IRC client ;-)
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, do you use xchat-gnome?
<chrisccoulson> do you want me to demonstrate ;)
<mdeslaur> oh, ffs, you guys are nuts :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> and this one isn't even my fault, for a change
<pitti> I already imagine the USN: "A remote attacker could exploit this so that the message envelope has the wrong color"
<chrisccoulson> lol
<mdeslaur> hehe
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll make that slightly better soonish...
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: I had a great case of message indicator DoS once: I logged in my corp. account X-Chat account for the first time after having the account for quite some time (was using a webfrontend before). It was connected with some internal twitter service. And every tweet since the dawn of time caused an indicator popup. Those are not implemented with performance in mind to much. But the kicker was:
<Sweetshark> This was on a remote session on a SunRay. That hugged the net and the CPU for ~15 minutes ...
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that could be handled a little better too ;)
<Sweetshark> I gues that was the only time in history that xchat stole the cpu from gcc on that rather bigiron shared developer machine.
<pitti> rodrigo__: I responded to your language-cleanup spec comment, thanks!
<cjwatson> any problem with me uploading libappindicator?
<pitti> oh, ken is offline
<pitti> mterry, seb128: ^ do you know?
<cjwatson>   * Call dh_python2 from binary-fixup rather than binary-predeb, so that
<cjwatson>     generated maintainer script snippets actually end up in the package.
<cjwatson>   * Remove unused libmono-dev build-dependency (for Mono 2.10 transition).
<seb128> cjwatson, not at all, go for it
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks for the fixes ;-)
<cjwatson> thanks.  I think libindicate needs much the same
<seb128> cjwatson, feel free to upload it as well if you want or let it to us if you prefer we can do it
<cjwatson> I might as well just do it all now, it's part of this remove-pyc-files-from-squashfs project
<seb128> ok
<cjwatson> looks like ecryptfs-utils has a similar problem, but that isn't your problem :-)
<seb128> it's not indeed ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I finally got around to filing bug 800304
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800304 in firefox "browser.search.defaultenginename does not work from distribution.ini" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800304
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<fta> chrisccoulson, http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=86715  last comment, any idea?
<chrisccoulson> the trace definitely looks like it's just the menubar fetching properties for menuitems
<chrisccoulson> not sure why that would hang though, unless there are a lot of menu items
<fta> chrisccoulson, maybe a giant bookmark
<fta> who's doing this appmenu?
<fta> tedg, any idea? http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=86715
<seb128> pedro_, hola!!! ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, how are you?
<tedg> fta, Are you getting that?  Seems get be an error with g_value_init()?  Not sure how that could happen.
<pedro_> seb128, hey! good and you?
<seb128> pedro_, I'm great thanks!
<tedg> jcastro, Do you know who's doing work on the appmenu stuff for Chrome?
<seb128> pedro_, your bugs summary rocks dude ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, just wanted to tell you ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, thanks! glad you like it :-)
<pedro_> seb128, i'm doing some others i'll show you those at the rally ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, I'm trying to think to a way to build list of "small bugs that we should fix this cycle to look better"
<seb128> pedro_, those are not really ranked in duplicates or comments or anything
<seb128> pedro_, I'm pondering between tags, or assigning to desktop-bugs or ...
<seb128> pedro_, well I milestone them for oneiric as start ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, probably we can start adding tags + a milestone and build a list with those
<pedro_> the bad thing about tags though is that everybody can add those, but we can play for a bit and see how it goes
<seb128> pedro_, I think I will think a bit this week and ask everybody what they think next week in a roundtable
<pedro_> seb128, sounds good :-)
<seb128> pedro_, think about it this week if you want and see if you can figure some better way ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, if not we will just sort if over a beer next week ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, oh yeah Guinness FTW :-)
<seb128> not sure about the guinness but I will get some beer don't worry ;-)
<fta> tedg, i'm not seing this, but as i am the chromium maintainer for ubuntu, they ping me when there's a problem with ubuntu
<tedg> fta, Ah, okay.  I'm guessing with a retrace we might get a better stack.
<tedg> fta, It seems odd the one in the bug.
<achiang> is there a way to actually run a foo.desktop file? xdg-open wants to open it in gedit
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-22
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso bryceh RAOF robert_ancell (who is on holiday) Meeting time https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-06-21
<TheMuso> Morning.
<jasoncwarner_> morning TheMuso , how is the ashcloud over SYD this morning?
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Still there according to the news, but they reckon flights will be happening again by this afternoon.
<TheMuso> I am not going to be really concerned till Friday, and only if ash is still an issue in the media.
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: sounds like a plan...
<jasoncwarner_> ok, let's get started and when bryceh and RAOF join we can get to X
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: could you catch me up on what is happening with ubiquity bp?
<jasoncwarner_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-accessibility-ubiquity
<jasoncwarner_> looks like you have quite a few WIs on there for A2
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Still talking to design about UI matters with regards to how we present the availability of accessibility profiles.
<TheMuso> Once thats settled, coding will begin in urnist, and shouldn't take that long.
<TheMuso> Hense the INPROGRESS with some of the WIs on that blueprint.
<jasoncwarner_> we need to give deadline to design on that...we can't be going into A3 still "designing". Who is the person you are working with in design?
<TheMuso> Christian Giordano, however we are still firing emails back and forth, as a few clarrifications need to be made from my end, I am not always the best explainer. :)
<TheMuso> So I will continue that today with an email, and I hope to get it sorted by EOW.
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso, ok...could you please make it a hard goal to get it sorted by EOW? We need the 2 weeks before A2 to get it all done!
<jasoncwarner_> thanks
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Re RAOF, I think he may have recently been traveling, at least according to a tweat I received from him last night.
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF tweets?
<jasoncwarner_> :)
<bryceh> ah sorry I'm here
<jasoncwarner_> ah, bryceh !
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Will do, I need to look over those WIs and see if something needs to be pushed back to Alpha 3.
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Yes he does.
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: [TOPIC] X.update...
<bryceh> xdiagnose got in this week :-)
<bryceh> so that means xfailsafe and the apport hooks are moved to their new home
<bryceh> also, been doing lots of hardware testing and upgrading
<LLStarks> bryceh, is xfailsafe behavior the same?
<bryceh> been pushing in patches incl. sru's for natty as well.  There's a couple items I want to chat with RAOF about this meeting when he shows up
<bryceh> LLStarks, for now it is
<LLStarks> okay
<bryceh> LLStarks, going forward plan is to enhance it to be more suitable for the types of problems people have these days, e.g. black screen on boot bugs and so on
<bryceh> mesa 7.10.3 got in, and there's new xorg and -nvidia
<bryceh> aside from that, still fielding a lot of questions with X issues on natty
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: new nvidia? awesome...I'll update..I wasn't able to use unity last couple days b/c of x/mesa nvidia issues
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: anything else?
<bryceh> I think with linux 3.0 hitting, that may affect nvidia a bit, but not sure
<jasoncwarner_> everyone, how are your A2 WIs coming? anything blocked that I need to track down?
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, nothing else for X.  Been doing some LP stuff but nothing worth discussion here.
<bryceh> doesn't appear that I have any A2 items
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: ok...
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: As above.
<jasoncwarner_> alright everyone, TheMuso try to get design of ubiquity sorted and we'll go from there.
<jasoncwarner_> see you all in dublin!
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Will do.
<TheMuso> Yay for hybrid isos.
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<pitti> RAOF: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-rootless-x something you actually want for oneriric, or should we postpone this again? (I'd be happy with postponing)
<pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<pitti> TheMuso: wrt. your discussions with Christian, perhaps scheduling a mumble meeting would be faster? lots more bandwidth, and faster turnaround for explanations
<TheMuso> pitti: I'll see what he comes back with, and if we are not getting any further, I will attempt to rangle with mumble, given that its QT and all.
<pitti> TheMuso: or classical phone, if mumble doesn't work for you :)
<TheMuso> Yeah thats an option.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti :)
<didrocks> TheMuso: hey
<didrocks> TheMuso: so, we have an accessible Qt in the ubuntu-desktop ppa
<didrocks> TheMuso: just upgrade from, install qt-at-spi as well, and then, to launch apps with accessibility enabled: QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 <app>
<didrocks> accerciser and Orca are quite happy with this there :)
<TheMuso> didrocks: Cool! Will try out tomorrow, I am aware of the environment variable.
<didrocks> TheMuso: from my experience, it's still a little crashy, but not as much as it was :-)
<didrocks> (only with the variable enabled)
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> Yup.
<didrocks> TheMuso: do not hesitate to confirm/infirm
<TheMuso> ok
<didrocks> I'll try push to oneiric tomorrow
<TheMuso> No hurry.
<seb128> hey desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke!
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> how was your IRC presentation yesterday?
<didrocks> was nice, a lot of question, got dead hands typing restless for a full hour and half :)
<jasoncwarner_> morning everyone...
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner_, how are you?
<jasoncwarner_> hey pitti, pretty good, thanks. you? getting ready for summit?
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: also, assuming you guys found like 50mb of cd space since earlier this week...so, no point in talking about that ;)
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: I'm half-done with preping my "efficient bug handling" talk for the DX team, otherwise not much prep done yet
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: !
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: no, only 12 :)
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: well, 12 is nothing to sneeze at...now if we could remove german from the cd ;)
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: how is localization bp? you feel good about showing that off next week?
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: we can't, as it's not on the CD any more ..
<pitti> not on amd64, anyway
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: yup, I have enough of it working to demonstrate it
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: source package is in NEW (archive admin HINT HINT)
<jasoncwarner_> dang it...I don't know who I can mess with about languages on CD anymore...perhaps rodrigo__ and spanish
<jasoncwarner_> or maybe robert/raof/bryce etc and english (though I think that might be really problematic ;)  )
<didrocks> pitti: hint taken! looking :)
<pitti> didrocks: j/k really -- it's not really that urgent
<seb128> hey jasoncwarner_
<didrocks> pitti: tomorrow, you will have my qt-at-spi package to review then :-)
<pitti> you can run the stuff from bzr
<pitti> erk, I knew it comes with strings attached!
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: sure, will do
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<seb128> pitti, we dropped .es from the CD?
<pitti> no, not yet
<pitti> I didn't drop any language since natty yet
<didrocks> pitti: and as soon as agateau got some upstream ack, sni-qt as well :-) I think you will loose in number of NEW packages ;)
<pitti> didrocks: also, in size; ubuntu-defaults-builder is tiny
<didrocks> I can imagine :-)
<didrocks> pitti: sounds good apart that perl hurts my eyes ;)
<pitti> *shrug* debhelper..
<pitti> but I tried to keep it clean, I even used strict
<didrocks> pitti: just a small hickupp: everywhere you set the licence to GPLv3, but in the man of dh_ubuntu_defaults, you tell: licensed under the GNU GPL v2 or later.
<didrocks> which is compatible of course, just weird ;)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, c&p error
<pitti> didrocks: it doesn't even build the manpage yet, as it's still a stub
<pitti> didrocks: fixed in bzr, nice catch!
<didrocks> pitti: right, but nothing blocking anyway, just fix it in the next upload
<pitti> r27
<pitti> the remaining features, manpages, etc. will come in 0.2
<didrocks> ok, looks good, do you want to do another upload or it will be for later?
<pitti> didrocks: 0.1 is good for testing; I don't plan to upload 0.2 today yet
<didrocks> pitti: ok, ack then :)
<pitti> cheers!
<didrocks> pitti: I hope that unity-2d will use soon the gsettings key so that you don't have to do this postinst hack (the one which were in the -settings package at some point)
<pitti> didrocks: unity 3d and 2d using the very same gsettings key would indeed be appreciated
<didrocks> I didn't test, but from the code, it seems that local (absolute path) desktop key works as well, which will be interesting for loco team for isntance
<didrocks> instance*
<didrocks> btw, tell me when you need loco testing, I'll do it this cycle for the french respin and report what's working and what's not (0.2?)
<didrocks> or rather, if I was puzzled in trying to use something :)
<pitti> didrocks: 0.1 works with ffox bookmarks, startpage, unity (2d) launchers, RB radio stations (banshee needs a patch), extra packages, and background images
<pitti> didrocks: so if you want to test these, go ahead
<pitti> didrocks: I also provided a script to build an "enable all example" ubuntu-defaults-test package, FYI
<pitti> just run /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-defaults-builder/examples/make-example in /tmp/
<pitti> didrocks: but for manual creation, run ubuntu-defaults-template ubuntu-defaults-french
<didrocks> pitti: I'll try to toy with it tomorrow or Friday to give you feedbacks at the sprint then! Thanks for the links :)
<pitti> didrocks: we can also do that together on the sprint; I hope I can get banshee working this or next week
<pitti> the code doesn't look too complicated, but I still need to get used to C# a bit
 * didrocks will set njpatel as the wallpaper background with an "awesomeness" shiny text light in the French respin :)
<alex3f> mvo: morning, you around?
<didrocks> pitti: oh code, let's plan on that then ;)
<pitti> bah, and it promptly FTBFSed
<didrocks> yeah, was working there, didn't try in a pbuilder
<alex3f> do you know why import crashes like this: http://pastebin.com/thPAXBgb, when importing gtk *before* gio.repository?
<pitti> test/run -v
<pitti> make[1]: test/run: Command not found
<pitti> er, what?
<didrocks> interesting :)
<njpatel> didrocks, :D
<pitti> alex3f: does packagekit import any GTK bits by any chance?
<njpatel> so, er, daily cd is not working great on intel
<njpatel> it just hangs at the "welcome" screen in the installer
<alex3f> pitti: posible
<pitti> alex3f: you can't mix GIR GTK bindings with static gtk binding
<alex3f> the introspection data is pretty new, I guess it mixes packagekit with packagekit-gnome
<pitti> alex3f: also, you need to use the same GTK as packagekit
<seb128> pitti, could you look at the amd64 retracer when you have a minute please?
<seb128> pitti, it errors out on "    os.unlink('/var/lib/dpkg/info/%s:%s.%s' % (c.name, self.get_system_architecture(), script))" with "self" not being defined
<pitti> alex3f: so perhaps try with "from gi import Gtk" instead, to use the GI bindings
<seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/apport/packaging_impl.py", line 793, in fetch_unpack
<seb128> pitti, not sure if that's an apport multiarch issue or what?
<alex3f> pitti: thank you
<pitti> seb128: oh, dang; will fix
<alex3f> the problem is that I'm trying to integrate it with software-center
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<alex3f> where there is a lot of gtk
<pitti> alex3f: ah, this is currently being ported to GTK3/GI as well
<pitti> but right, tricky right now
<alex3f> I guess a right thing to do in the meantime is try to separate the gnome/gtk bits from packagekitglib
<pitti> alex3f: do you need PK? you might also use aptdaemon or python-apt?
<pitti> alex3f: (note that we don't install PK by default, as it doesn't work very well in Ubuntu)
<alex3f> pitti: ahh, i need it, this is my project :)
<pitti> very well == not good enough to be the default package installer
<alex3f> http://swarm.cs.pub.ro/~alexef/gsoc/proposal.html
<pitti> alex3f: ok; then I guess avoiding any GTK bits of PK will probably be the best solution right now, if possible
<pitti> seb128: fixed in 1.21.1-0ubuntu2, just uploaded
<pitti> sorry about that
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> so, now back to this weird defaults-builder FTBFS
<seb128> pitti, I guess I need to update apport in the chroots right?
<pitti> seb128: right; easiest to just wait 80 minutes and run apport-chroot upgrade
<seb128> I will be lazy, wait on the publisher and do an apport-chroot upgrade
<seb128> pitti, great mind ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti ^5s seb128
<seb128> rodrigo__, hey
<pitti> didrocks: ah, silly me
<pitti> $ head test/run
<pitti> #!/usr/bin/python3
<pitti> I want to be on the edge!
 * pitti adds b-dep
<didrocks> pitti: stop being that on the edge :-)
<didrocks> the error was quite misleading though
<seb128> oh, versions has quite some dx red lines
<seb128> nice to see indicators and unity tarballs ;-)
<didrocks> well, next step will be to have working tarballs ;)
<didrocks> your version page doesn't catch that? :p
<seb128> didrocks, no, but patches are welcome! ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, did you figure the libunity-misc build issue? do you need help on it?
 * didrocks starts to think about pushing all version.py new detection in a pbuilder directly build on seb128's machine :-)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> seb128: it's working in a pbuilder for libunity-misc, so yeah, timestamp issue
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> I just don't push as if we can't push nux/unity, it will create some NBS
<seb128> is there anything blocking that upload? (just curious)
<seb128> didrocks, NBS are fine
<seb128> didrocks, we have a ton of those for i.e libpanel-applet-2
<seb128> old e-d-s
<seb128> etc
<didrocks> ok, let's push it now then
<didrocks> just not tested as can't build new unity for now
<seb128> they need to be sorted during the cycle
<seb128> didrocks, well at least we can see if it builds fine, get it published etc so it's ready and out of your queue
<didrocks> ok, let's go for it then, it's just a dput away :)
<rodrigo__> hey seb128
<seb128> rodrigo_, how are you?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm running the http_proxy grep on main btw, so I will let you know what's coming from it when it's done
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, cool
<seb128> didrocks, cleaned libunity-misc from the pad gtk2 list ;-)
<didrocks> \o/
<rodrigo_> I am going to upload, after some more testing, g-s-d 3.1.2, for the NTP stuff, so anything against it?
<pitti> rodrigo_: this doesn't depend on anything else from GNOME 3.1.x?
<rodrigo_> pitti, gnome-desktop and gsettings-desktop-schemas at least
<rodrigo_> have been testing the jhbuilt version, so not sure yet about the versions needed
<rodrigo_> will find out in a bit, starting to package it now
<seb128> rodrigo_, what about gpm and gcm?
<seb128> rodrigo_, is the color stuff optional?
<seb128> rodrigo_, does that version conflicts or deprecated gpm or not?
<rodrigo_> it uses colord
<seb128> optional?
<seb128> because that's not packaged yet, so it would need to be packaged and promoted before you do the update
<rodrigo_> no, not optional, but we can make it so
<seb128> ok you should probably
<seb128> rodrigo_, what about gpm?
<rodrigo_> about g-p-m. I really thought it was deprecated, but hughes released 3.1.x versions, so will find out
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you want me to do the gnome-desktop3 updat?
<rodrigo_> yes, I'll do it
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes or you will do it? those are different replies ;-)
<seb128> i.e do you want me to do it and gsettings-d-s
<rodrigo_> seb128, sorry, misread :)
<seb128> to spare you some time, i.e split work
<rodrigo_> so the answer is: I'll do it, so don't worry :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, gpm I think still has the stats ui and some bits
<seb128> rodrigo_, but the service code moved to gsd
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, it means you will need to update gpm together I guess to avoid conflicting services
<seb128> or they will both try to manage the same thing
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> we will loose the indcator on the way
<rodrigo_> oh, why?
<seb128> rodrigo_, because they dropped the gtkstatusicon
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, but that's ok, dx is working on a proper power indicator
<seb128> we can do without the icon for some weeks
<rodrigo_> ok, I'll prepare any packages I need locally before doing any upload
<rodrigo_> and upload all at the same time when all is ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, use the gnome3 ppa maybe
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> so you can ask other to test as well
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/630731/
<mpt> mvo, good morning! I'm making a list of things in USC that could be implemented if we had debtags. I have (1) better categories, (2) maturity ratings, (3) system requirements for packages. Can you think of any others?
<seb128> pitti, no desktop-o-gtk3-gnome3 ?
<pitti> seb128: -ECONTEXT :) (in meeting with jasoncwarner_, will brief you later)
<seb128> pitti, oh ok, I though that was a list of the team specs for the cycle
<pitti> seb128: it's the list of things which we could potentially drop if needed
<seb128> ok
<mvo> mpt: not from the top of my head, I think that is the immediate list
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> well, only just ;)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks! how are you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - quite tired, i had a late night last night. but otherwise, good thanks
<rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_
<mpt> ok, thanks mvo
<rodrigo_> hmm, in the last couple of reboots I've done, gnome-shell and classic sessions complain about a window manager already running on the display
<rodrigo_> unity seems to work ok, so not sure what's up
<rodrigo_> and there was, at least last time (didn't check now) a metacity process for the gdm user
<rodrigo_> so seems gdm is again not killing all its processes
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: FYI, libunity-misc binNEWed
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson "morning?"! it's middday, did you work all the night again? ;-)
<pitti> speaking about which, I'm off for lunch and some errands
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it was a late one last night
<seb128> pitti, enjoy!, hum, food, should do that soon as well
 * micahg can empathize with a late night...
<didrocks> seb128: did you use merge-upstream or just merge for latest unity release?
<seb128> didrocks, urg, I might have just merged :-(
<seb128> sorry about that, do you want me to fix it?
<didrocks> seb128: no worry, I think it's fine, I just add to manually add a tag
<seb128> ok, sorry again
<didrocks> seb128: it's not like autotools where you need additional files to build :)
<seb128> I didn't do a merge-upstream upload for a while
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> seb128: no worry, just to confirm why the tag wasn't there ;)
<didrocks> <disclaimer: no this is not to intend that I prefer cmake to autotools> ;)
<didrocks> seb128: oh, that's why you had to repack manually the tarball!
<didrocks> confirm, merge-upstream does the right thing for you :)
<didrocks> confirmed*
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> I completely zappy merged upstream after a month of GNOME3 in oneiric
<didrocks> :-)
<didrocks> hum, conflicts though
<seb128> didrocks, it might be easier to uncommit, redo it using merge upstream and push --overwrite
<didrocks> hum, not sure it's because of what you did TBH
<TheMuso> pitti, seb128, are we still likely to have GTK2 on the CD for oneiric?
<seb128> TheMuso, yes
<seb128> TheMuso, the rdepends list is on the etherpad if you want to check it but it's not likely that firefox and some others will be ported this cycle
<TheMuso> Ok thanks, just realized one more a11y dep is needed in the meta after doing a fresh installn and finding some things not speaking. :)
<TheMuso> ok thats fine.
<TheMuso> libgail-common used to be pulled in by other bits, but is no longer, and still needed.
<seb128> TheMuso, could you check on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcanberra/+bug/790608 and see if you have an opinion about it?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 790608 in libcanberra "libcanberra needs to depend on sound-theme-freedesktop" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> TheMuso, or do you know who else would be better placed for that?
<seb128> TheMuso, why is libgail-common still used?
<TheMuso> seb128: I will have a read through that complete bug tomorrow and comment.
<seb128> TheMuso, btw do you know if onboard is actively maintained? it still use gtk2, pygtk and gconf
<TheMuso> Re libgail-common, for some reason the libgail.so gtk module is in that package.
<seb128> TheMuso, thanks
<TheMuso> seb128: yes someone is working on onboard, I will prod them re moving to GTK3/Gsettings.
<seb128> TheMuso, thanks
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<alex3f> mvo: hi
<alex3f> I'm trying to run https://code.launchpad.net/~mmcg069/software-center/gtk3again - but it hangs at http://pastebin.com/yjHKjhAM
<alex3f> ah, ./software-center-gtk3
<mvo> alex3f: I have a look, not sure whats wrong with it at this point, its pretty volatile
<alex3f> mvo: I'm rebuilding gtk+, I've seen some similar bug report
<alex3f> caused by an incomplete build of cairo
<mvo> aha, ok
<mvo> good luck!
<alex3f> thanks
<mvo> I hope that I can merge the gtk3 stuff soonish
<mvo> lets see how it goes, but i definietely want to have it in even if its a bit rough currently
<seb128> mvo, hey
<alex3f> mvo: it would be glad to have something merged
<seb128> mvo, how would you like the "software-properties should stop depending on synaptic", bug, work item? not tracked?
<alex3f> since I'm currently unable to run any pk part together with pygtk
<alex3f> s/glad/great/
<jasoncwarner_> hey seb128 , question for you on oneiric. when I open the keyboard settings window, I don't have any sliders for 'delay' or 'speed'. I can't change those?
<pitti> mvo, seb128: does s-p just call synaptic for the package cache? that could use aptdaemon, right?
<jasoncwarner_> I have an annoying slow key repeat rate right now and it is messing with my typing kung-fu! ;)
<pitti> mvo: a quick grep for synaptic seems to show only that
<pitti> mvo, seb128: want me to look into this?
<pitti> seb128: I take it you want to drop synaptic from the default install?
<mvo> pitti: thanks, feel free to grab that WI
<pitti> I'd like to unseed it; right now it's being pulled in through software-properties anyway, but it should go away once that dependencies is dropped
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, they should be in the keyboard capplet on the first ab?
<seb128> tba
<seb128> tab
<seb128> can't type!
<mvo> pitti: sounds good to me
<seb128> pitti, if you want please, I would like to get synaptic off the CD
<pitti> bzr commit -m "remove synaptic; it's spelled 'software-center' now"
<jasoncwarner_> seb128: nope, not showing up...sliders are there, but no circle to move the values...I'll take screenshot
<mvo> (or software-centre, depending on your part of the world ;)
<pitti> seb128: oh, is that our last remaining gksu rdepends?
<pitti> I'd so love to get rid of gksu, it's quite a GUI inconsistency
<pitti> ah, no; network-manager and gdebi, plus a few others
<jasoncwarner_> seb128: http://img861.imageshack.us/i/selection002g.png/
<seb128> pitti, gdebi is not installed by default right?
<seb128> pitti, could we use gksu-polkit
<seb128> ?
<jasoncwarner_> seb128: I was also wondering if we could get a transparent resize gripper for terminal now that we use overlay scrollbars there...it looks a bit odd/stands out a bit from the rest of the desktop... http://img163.imageshack.us/i/selection003s.png/
<seb128> pitti, or pkexec?
<pitti> seb128: pkexec doesn't work for X programs; I haven't tried gksu-polkit
<pitti> seb128: check gdebi's Task: header; it's on some images
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, oh you are right for the keyboard, seems like a bug
<pitti> not on ubuntu, though
<seb128> pitti, synaptic seems the only thing using gksu on my install
<pitti> seb128: apturl also depends on synaptic, though
<pitti> seb128: network-manager-gnome, gnome-codec-install, checkbox-gtk, apturl, update-notifier, gnome-system-log <- here
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, dunno for your second question
<seb128> pitti, how do you list those?
<pitti> sudo dpkg -P gksu
<seb128> pitti, thanks, I will fix the buggy gnome-system-log depends, it comes from debian
<seb128> we use the admin group for logs in ubuntu
<pitti> you mean "adm"
<pitti> ?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> pitti, well we rely on the admin users having access by group permissions
<seb128> so we don't use gksu
<seb128> but ok, still a few rdepends
<seb128> ups, got disconnected
<seb128> rodrigo_, there?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you know if jasoncwarner_'s keyboard capplet issue is known?
<seb128> rodrigo_, the 2 first slitders of the capplet has no round you can drag
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, what issue?
<seb128> rodrigo_, slider
 * rodrigo_ looks
<rodrigo_> oh, indeed
<rodrigo_> hmm, doesn't happen in 3.1.x from jhbuild
 * rodrigo_ looks at the code
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure if bug #656329 is fixed in your rewrite but I milestoned for oneiric
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 656329 in gwibber "should use gsettings rather than gconf" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656329
<kenvandine> seb128, yup :)
 * kenvandine just finished porting the backend to gsettings 
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> dobey, kenvandine: bug #800717
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800717 in ubuntuone-client "Should stop using gconf in oneiric" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800717
<seb128> dobey, kenvandine: basically since g-s-d and nautilus are on gsettings, gtk3 it means ubuntuone is having no desktop integration in oneiric
<seb128> the gsd code is not loaded neither is the nautilus one
<dobey> ok
<dobey> weird, but ok
<seb128> dobey, why weird?
<rodrigo_> hey dobey
<kenvandine> fta, can you disable the gwibber daily builds?
<seb128> dobey, nautilus changed their abi number since they can't mix gtk2 and gtk3 in the same process so u1 is using the wrong dir and ignored
<rodrigo_> dobey, the nightlies use the same package branch as the one in oneiric, right?
<dobey> seb128: don't see why it matters if the extension uses gconf or gsettings in terms of the extension being loaded
<dobey> rodrigo_: no
<kenvandine> i am close to merging the client rewrite into trunk, which will break the dailies packaging branch about 2000 ways :)
<seb128> dobey, the "enable" key is in gsettings for g-s-d
<kenvandine> and we should switch to using LP for dailies anyway
<dobey> seb128: that is a separate bug from the gconf one then
<rodrigo_> dobey, ok, so you'll have to copy the patch that is failing to apply as soon as I submit it
<seb128> dobey, GTK is bug #800723
<dobey> rodrigo_: i looked at fixing it the other day, but saw you completely decimated that code for some reason; does trunk still build against evolution 2.x?
<seb128> dobey, but yeah, both techs are an issue for different reasons
<rodrigo_> dobey, yes, it's just the plugin code, which I refactored a bit to share some code for the tasks and contacts plugin
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800723 in ubuntuone-client "should use GTK3" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800723
<seb128> dobey, the gconf use is an issue because gsd reads gsettings to see what to enable and gtk2 is an issue since nautilus is on gtk3
<dobey> seb128: the gconf thing is not an issue because g-s-d reading gsettings to see what to enable is completely separate from whether the plug-in itself uses gconf or gsettings for its own configuration; if we have to toggle an "enable" bool or add some schema to gsettings for having the plug-in load, i think that is still a separate bug from whether or not the extension itself is using gconf
<seb128> dobey, right, in any case both gconf and gtk2 should be off the CD by next cycle so it would be nice to start porting this cycle ;-)
<seb128> dobey, there is part of functional need there and part of cleaning
<dobey> ah, i fixed the gtk2/gtk3 issue though in trunk, but haven't made a release yet, because we have lots of other underlying issues to fix as well :)
<fta> kenvandine, sure, done
<kenvandine> fta, thx
<pitti> mvo: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/software-properties/main/revision/668 works for me
<pitti> took a bit to get the async handling worked out
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<pitti> seb128: now the blame is entirely on apturl
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<pitti> which needs porting to GI and to aptdaemon
<pitti> mvo: do you want to review, or should I just upload?
<seb128> pitti, do you still need the gksu depends?
<pitti> right now yes
<seb128> or to run software-properties-gtk with gksu?
<pitti> yes, for that
<pitti> it edits /etc/apt/sources.list, etc.
<pitti> ideally all that should be offered in aptdaemon as well, and s-p should use it
<seb128> right
<mvo> pitti: I'm in a meeting currently, if you feel good about it, just upload, otherwise I review in ~30 min or so
<pitti> mvo: ok, I'll upload and take the bullets
<mvo> pitti: but looks good on a first glance
<mvo> thanks a bunch pitti!
 * pitti hugs mvo
 * mvo hugs pitti back
<kinouchou> hello seb128, didrocks & fredp
<seb128> lut kinouchou
<didrocks> salut kinouchou
<didrocks> can anyone binNEW nux on amd64 and i386 (soname change)? I'm about to push unity :)
<mterry> ronoc, heyo.  I just realized indicator-sound wasn't ported to gtk3 yet.  I'll propose a merge if you're not already in the middle of that
<didrocks> seb128: ^ ?
<pitti> good night everyone!
<pitti> FYI, national holiday tomorrow; I'll probably get online a bit, but not much
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<pitti> so, see you on Friday!
<kenvandine> enjoy!
 * kenvandine wishes his new motherboard would arrive... i need my build box back!
<chrisccoulson> have fun pitti!
<didrocks> see you pitti!
<rodrigo_> have fun pitti
<seb128> pitti, 'night, have fun
<seb128> didrocks, can do
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<didrocks> powerpc came to life as well
<chrisccoulson> heh, leDidRocks ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: heh! ;)
<seb128> didrocks, NEWed
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :) will you be available for the unity ones? (more complex though)
<seb128> didrocks, you can NEW the armel build yourself later if you want
<didrocks> seb128: thanks : )
<seb128> didrocks, not sure since it will take until 20:00 for nux to be published now then unity needs to build
<seb128> didrocks, but ping jdstrand for example if I'm not around
<seb128> or StevenK
<didrocks> 20:00, not 19:00?
<seb128> didrocks, I will try to have a look when I'm back but I need to run in half an hour for sport and I might have dinner outside then
<seb128> didrocks, the next publisher run is at 19:03 or something and publishing takes almost an hour
<didrocks> seb128: ok, anyway, not that important, can wait
<didrocks> I'll try to take a normal evening tonight, 7:30PM to get out  :)
<seb128> didrocks, but feel free to NEW it yourself otherwise, I will double check it for you tomorrow ;-)
<rodrigo_> ok, need to get out for some errands, bbl
<seb128> rodrigo_, see you
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw the grep for the http proxy returned several application
<seb128> including ubiquity and update-manager, I'm opening bugs for those
<seb128> rodrigo_, rhythmbox and banshee as well
<seb128> software-center
<seb128> evolution-data-server
<mvo> seb128: hm? whats wrong with http_proxy?
<seb128> mvo, gnome-control-center uses gsettings
<seb128> mvo, so it doesn't write to gconf
<mvo> aha
<seb128> mvo, we were discuting on whether we still need the bridge rodrigo_ wrote which still write those values to gconf for compat
<seb128> mvo, but those code will need to be ported to use gsettings rather than rely on compat bridges
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, let me know the bug # once you file it
<rodrigo_> ok, now really out, later all
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gsettings
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can watch that list, they are in it
<seb128> mvo, bug #656332 btw, I milestone it to oneiric
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 656332 in update-manager "should use gsettings rather than gconf" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656332
<seb128> or didrocks assigned it to himself, maybe he will do it for you ;-)
<didrocks> update-manager? yeah, I'll have some fun with it :)
<mvo> do what you want, I have dinner now ;)
 * mvo &
<seb128> mvo, enjoy!
<didrocks> fg
<didrocks> seb128: argh, you broke it! :-)
<seb128> didrocks, broke what?
<didrocks> (mvo process in background and I tried to "fg" to bring him back in the foreground ;))
<seb128> lol
<seb128> ok, need to go, see you later!
<ronoc> mterry, not at all in the middle of it, merges welcome :)
<mterry> ronoc, cool, almost done, but hitting some odd issues with finding the currently selected menuitem in gtk3  :)
<ronoc> mterry, ah the keypress callback in indicator-sound.c ?
<mterry> ronoc, yeah
<ronoc> mterry, other than that was it painful ?
<mterry> (actually, not even dealing with gtk3 right now, just non-deprecated gtk2)
<mterry> ronoc, no, just some ifdefs and switching from deprecated to non functions
<ronoc> good stuff
<ogra_> didrocks, i tried to log in with unity instead of -2d today on my armel netbook ... the auto detection is just awesome, but metacity seems to have all composite effects enabled
<ogra_> in the unity-2d session if you select it from the DM, composite is on but effects are off
<ogra_> would be good if they could behave the same
<didrocks> ogra_: right, we discussed that there with you 2 weeks before, seems it's urigo who enabled that, and I told you to speak with him IIRC :)
<didrocks> Kaleo: ^
<ogra_> didrocks, no, thats something different
<didrocks> oh?
<didrocks> oh
<didrocks> on the session
<didrocks> yeah, for fallbacak
<didrocks> this is a known issue
<didrocks> from the beginning
<didrocks> the gconf keys aren't applied
<ogra_> there is a discrepancy between the unity-2d session i get when the auto fallback og unity kicks in
<didrocks> (on fallbacking)
<ogra_> vs the session i get if i select unity-2d directly
<didrocks> the evil master plan is to make this detection in lightdm itself
<didrocks> before choosing the session
<ogra_> well, whatever works
<didrocks> which I will try do to next week :)
<ogra_> having composite on isnt that big of a showstopper ... as long as the effects stay off
<didrocks> I think Kaleo is aware of that :)
<ogra_> i think it actually speeds up all the QML stuff
<ogra_> while metacity itself gets a bit slower
<ogra_> i.e. in alt+tab i usually dont get to see the app switcher (takes abotu 1sec to render) , the switching is fast though
<Kaleo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/791205 is a prerequisite to fix that
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 791205 in unity-2d "Metacity needs command line options to activate capture before unmap and compositing without effects" [High,Confirmed]
<didrocks> so you need:
<didrocks> compositing on
<didrocks> effects off
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> which is the default in the -2d session already
<ogra_> but if the issue is known anyway i will keep quiet :)
<didrocks> ogra_: we'll think to it, do not hesitate to ping/hurt me during the sprint :)
<ogra_> yeah, no worries :)
<ogra_> i'll hurt you by forcing you to drink a beer :)
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> I like this kind of the pain
<ogra_> :)
<mterry> ronoc, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-sound/gtk3/+merge/65552
<ronoc> mterry, thanks - will do now
<mterry> ronoc, yw; I don't know why I missed it when doing the others  :)
 * ronoc takes a look
<mterry> tremolux, heyo.  Did donations in software-center get discussed last UDS?  Curious what the plan of record for those are
<tremolux> mterry: hey! we did not have a session for donations and in fact we don't have an active blueprint for it for oneiric unfortunately
<tremolux> mterry: here is the spec for it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareDonations
<tremolux> mterry: we have a lot of other work for s-c this cycle including a full UI refresh (with spec is coming next week), and so donations will have to be postponed for this cycle
<mterry> tremolux, yeah.  Just curious what the state of art is.  I'm excited about the UI refresh.  The mockups on omg ubuntu were pretty fancy
<tremolux> mterry: haha, indeed  :)
<tremolux> seems highly unlikely we'll be able to do all of that in 4 weeks or so before feature freeze, but we are going to try to hit as much as we can based on priorities
<jasoncwarner_> hey guys
<mterry> jasoncwarner_, hello!
<TheMuso> Hey jasoncwarner_.
<jasoncwarner_> hey mterry TheMuso and tremolux. how is everyone?
<TheMuso> Well thanks.
<tremolux> heya jasoncwarner_!
<mterry> good
<tremolux> very well, thanks
 * bryceh waves
<tremolux> jasoncwarner_: I just sent you an email in response to your email  ;)
<jasoncwarner_> tremolux: cool...I keep refreshing OMG ubuntu to see if the designs are finished yet ;) (sarcasm)
<tremolux> jasoncwarner_: LOL
<jasoncwarner_> tremolux: :)
<jasoncwarner_> tremolux: just read the email. next week at the rally lets talk about some rough idea of scope of the list just so we can start communicating that out; set expectations again...thanks
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, btw have you seen that gfx corruption / window clicking bug again, that you mentioned yesterday?
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: I did, but I was in unity again...switched to it after using classic all day
<jasoncwarner_> thinking it is a unity issue
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, ok, makes sense
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-23
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> pitti: guten morgen :) if you have some time, unity would need some binNEWing :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh forgot that it's a national holiday for you, sorry for the notice :)
<TheMuso> Hey didrocks.
<didrocks> ola TheMuso! Did you have some time to try Qt + a11y?
<TheMuso> didrocks: Just installed it now, but not sure what I should test with. :)
<didrocks> TheMuso: you have some examples shipped with, qt and qml apps, you can as well try launching any qt app with the env variable
<TheMuso> fair enough
 * TheMuso can't work out how to build the examples...
<TheMuso> nm worked it out.
<TheMuso> Working well, except for a few things like a multiline text view and some lists.
 * TheMuso used the simple example found in qt-at-spi.
<TheMuso> didrocks: So working well
<didrocks> TheMuso: nice :) we should then gather a list of feedback and send that to the Nokia guy, (like the multiline text and the lists)
<TheMuso> Yup.
<didrocks> TheMuso: do you want me to forward that to them if you can gather that? (I have some small other things to ask them)
<TheMuso> didrocks: Sure, I am almost done for today, but I will do that tomorrow, and do some reviewing in accerciser as well.
<didrocks> TheMuso: excellent, I'll send an email today then, CCing you and we can start the discussion :)
<TheMuso> Sounds good.
<didrocks> I'm pushing Qt to oneiric and qt-at-spi today then!
<TheMuso> Sweet.
 * TheMuso EOD, time to go and start packing.
<didrocks> TheMuso: see you!
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks. i'm good thanks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks! Making my laptop in pain as debuild -S Qt (taking 25 minutes here) ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i'm glad i don't have to maintain qt ;)
<didrocks> compizâ¦ qt, when will this ends up? :-)
<chrisccoulson> i think micahg volunteered to maintain compiz yesterday, when he took over maintaining nspluginwrapper ;)
<pitti> hey all
<pitti> didrocks: unity binNEW> sure, looking
<didrocks> pitti: hey, don't fell force, I'll ask to seb once he's online. You should enjoy your day off! :-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, good news! :-)
<pitti> oh, and lots of indicator bits in NEW as well
<pitti> didrocks: that's fine; just brought my wife to the train station, so I'm back home
 * didrocks adds micahg to ~compiz and run away :)
<pitti> didrocks: I want to do some garden work today, but it's still raining
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :-)
<didrocks> oh? :/
<pitti> and I want to plan a bikeshed
<didrocks> (cloudy here, but fortunatly, not rainy)
<pitti> nice to do bikeshedding for real for a change :)
<didrocks> heh, this should be the only bikeshedding we shold know :)
<pitti> we had a nice bbq with all the neighbors yesterday; it rained half of the time, but we got some umbrellas, and it was lots of fun
<didrocks> pitti: I hope that the bbq was more protected than with just umbrellas :)
<didrocks> or you would have eaten cold food :)
<pitti> yeah, it was under a roof
<didrocks> (qt-at-spi uploaded \o/ will need NEWing. Prepping the MIR)
<pitti> kenvandine: indicator-me-gtk2 binNEW review> why does this depend on libdbusmenu-gtk3?
<rodrigo_> morning
<chrisccoulson> pitti - libdbusmenu-gtk3 is actually the gtk2 version isn't it?
<chrisccoulson> libdbusmenu-gtk3-3 is the gtk3 version, i think
<pitti> ah, how confusing
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it is a bit ;)
<pitti> kenvandine: why does indicator-session have lots of icons, but i-session-gtk2 doesn't have them?
<didrocks> I guess a matrix is needed :)
<pitti> W: libunity-core-4.0-1: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libunity-core-4.0-4
<pitti> hmm
<seb128> hey
<pitti> didrocks: lintian reports tons of spelling errors in unity, perhaps you can fix them?
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> pitti, guten tag, aren't you supposed to be on holidays? ;-)
<pitti> W: unity-common: desktop-command-not-in-package /usr/share/applications/unity-preferences.desktop unity-preferences
<pitti> didrocks: ^ forgotten in .install?
<pitti> seb128: erm, yes
<pitti> binNEWing doesn't count as holidays?
<seb128> pitti, that warning is likely "bin is in unity, .desktop in common"
<didrocks> pitti: hum, really? I thought I cleaned the lintian warnings yesterday
<didrocks> pitti: right, the desktop file is in common, the binary in unity
<seb128> where the .desktop should not be in common
<pitti> didrocks: but libunity-core-4.0-1 shipping soname 4 and being named -1 sounds more serious
<pitti> didrocks: want me to reject to get that fixed?
<didrocks> pitti: sure please
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> hum, I'm afraid that last commit I backported rechanged *again* the soname :/
<didrocks> salut seb128
<pitti> ok, oneiric NEW is down from 80 to 18
<didrocks> 4 soname change for one release is too muchâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: pitti: so you prefer the desktop file in unity, not in -common?
<pitti> didrocks: no, that's fine
<pitti> I just spotted the lintian error, I didnt' check the dependency
<pitti> it's just a bit weird to have u-common depend on u
<pitti> but no biggue
 * didrocks still wonders why he didn't see those errors yesterday, normally, I check them closely
<pitti> biggie
<seb128> didrocks, well that's what is recommended I think because it avoids things like "I uninstalled unity but nothing cleaned -common and now I've a desktop file not matching any binary"
<pitti> yes, in that case -common should depend on unity
<seb128> circular depends?
<didrocks> unity deps on -common, so no :)
<didrocks> let's try to avoid circular dep
<didrocks> let's put the desktop file in the bin then
<pitti> then I'd also prefer moving the .desktop file
<didrocks> pitti: can I reupload with the same version or should I bump as the binaries are rejected? (will the source be overwritten?)
<seb128> \o/ gtk3 indicators
<seb128> with some gsettings porting on the way
<seb128> didrocks, you need to update the version
<didrocks> ok
<pitti> didrocks: you need to bump -- the source is already in the archive after all
<seb128> didrocks, the source is published so you can't use the version again
<pitti> didrocks: you just don't need conflicts/replaces for the rejected binaries
<seb128> using the same version work only for things which are not source newed
<pitti> or in unapproved during freezes
<didrocks> ok, so njpatel fixed the soname the other way around we agreed, should have checked with the last commitâ¦
<didrocks> sorry about that
<rodrigo_> is debian going to package 3.1.x soon?
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> rodrigo_, I doubt so, they usually don't have the manpower to track unstable series
<seb128> rodrigo_, why?
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you check on bug #796578
<seb128> ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 796578 in gsettings-desktop-schemas "org.gnome.desktop.default-applications.gschema.xml references undefined child schema org.gnome.desktop.default-applications.at" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/796578
<seb128> vuntz|afk, hey, could you review the patch on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168718 when you have time ?
<rodrigo_> seb128, because I wanted to update g-desktop, so I just do it on our branch then, right?
<ubot2> Gnome bug 168718 in general "libwnck skimps on an access to XClassHint components" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, looking
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, be careful there is a soname change in the new gnome-desktop, maybe ask for a review before uploadin
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, also, there's an API change in one method, a new arg added, so I'm first checking where it's used
<seb128> rodrigo_, well that's fine, if the soname changes we will need to transition all the rdepends anyway
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh, while I'm at, bug #800561 as well
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 800561 in gnome-control-center "No way to add other keymap than english on Live CD" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/800561
<seb128> should I just assign that to you? I think you where working on that capplet recently?
<seb128> it seems to work fine on my system, maybe a missing depends or something?
<seb128> I will try to check on the bug and update it if I figure something
<pitti> yay, ubuntu-defaults-builder finally built and is in binNEW
<seb128> oh, pitti already assigned it to you
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, looking now at both bugs (one at a time, that is :-)
<rodrigo_> the gsettings-desktop-schemas one is already fixed in git,s o just adding the patch now
<seb128> rodrigo_, yeah no hurry, sorry about the morning spam, I'm just going through the night backlog in my mailboxes
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw I'm done with the backlog so no other surprise for you ;-)
<rodrigo_> :)
<chrisccoulson> oh man, down to 40% capacity now
<chrisccoulson> my battery is not going to last the rally next week ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's dying a rather rapid death
<chrisccoulson> i think it's time for a new laptop!
<seb128> jibel, so you can open the region capplet on the current iso?
<seb128> jibel, rodrigo_: so I need to rsync the current iso but on the one week old iso I have the region capplet doesn't start because accountsservice is not on the CD
<fta2> chrisccoulson, get a chromebook ;) they claim you don't even need to carry the charger with you
<seb128> still blocking on the SRU
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, no answer from kees on the bug, afaics, will ping him
<seb128> rodrigo_, yeah, don't worry, we will corner him next week if needed ;-)
<rodrigo_> :)
<jibel> seb128, I can.
<seb128> jibel: can you try if installing accountsservice on the liveCD fixes the issue?
<seb128> jibel, you should be able to enable the universe source and install it
<seb128> jibel, oh, also do you know when the sound indicator issue started?
<jibel> seb128, here is the error when I launch the region capplet: region-cc-panel-WARNING **: Failed to list existing users: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Accounts was not provided by any .service files
<jibel> seb128, I install accountsservice
<seb128> jibel, thanks
<jibel> seb128, I don't know when it started. I saw that this morning while reviewing Oneiric's bug queue.
<seb128> jibel, don't worry, I was just wondering if that's the recent ido update or an indicator issue
<seb128> will sort it out with dx
<jibel> seb128, talking about sound, a dev should have a look at bug 791183 too.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 791183 in indicator-sound "volume indicator not working" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791183
<seb128> jibel, it's called "sound indicator" btw ;-) right, could be due to the same updates
<seb128> will check with kenvandine
<didrocks> pitti: ubuntu-defaults-builder binNEWed and new unity uploaded, hopefully will be soon built! (cleaned all lintian warning I can clean, just one man page missing upstream)
<seb128> ups
<jibel> seb128, installing accountsservice removes the warning, but I'm still unable to add a layout unless clicking on 'reset to defaults'. I'll comment the bug report.
<seb128> jibel, ok thanks, that was worth a try ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_,
<seb128> ./tomboy-1.6.1/Tomboy/Addins/WebSyncService/Api/ProxiedWebRequest.cs:			"/system/http_proxy
<seb128> ./gnome-applets-2.91.4~20110321/invest-applet/invest/__init__.py:			host = client.get_string("/system/http_proxy/host")
<seb128> ./liferea-1.6.4/src/conf.h:#define GNOME_USE_PROXY			"/system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy"	/* old GNOME proxy enabling key *
<seb128> then the ones I listed yesterday
<seb128> e-d-s, rb
<seb128> ./seahorse-3.0.2/pgp/seahorse-hkp-source.c:#define GCONF_USE_HTTP_PROXY    "/system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy"
<seb128> rodrigo_, doing a run for universe now
<ronoc> seb128, do you know where I can find the dev package for libido3 ?
<seb128> ronoc, in oneiric
<ronoc> seb128, only there ?
<seb128> yes
<ronoc> ah i just wanted to test mterry's port
<seb128> it's about time to upgrade to oneiric ;-)
<ronoc> never
<ronoc> until after the alpha :)
<seb128> ronoc, joke aside that will rely on a GTK3 unity etc
<ronoc> seb128, ok i'll do all the updating next week
<seb128> ronoc, that doesn't work, you can't block everybody this way, ted upgraded this week
<seb128> ronoc, your indicator is the only one blocking unity on gtk3
<ronoc> i'm about to merge
<seb128> great ;-)
<seb128> ronoc, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ido/0.2.90-0ubuntu1
<seb128> you can try to get the binaries from there
<seb128> but they might not work with the gtk3 in natty
<seb128> you might need a newer one
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<ronoc> seb128, ok thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_,
<seb128> ./bug-buddy-2.31.92/src/bug-buddy.c:#define USE_PROXY_KEY 	"/system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy"
<seb128> ./muine-0.8.11/src/GnomeProxy.cs:		private const string GConfProxyPath = "/system/http_proxy";
<seb128> ./sound-juicer-2.32.1+20110330/libjuicer/sj-metadata-musicbrainz3.c:#define GCONF_PROXY_USE_PROXY "/system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy"
<seb128> ./gnome-gmail-notifier-0.10.1/src/ggn-prefs.h:#define GGN_GCONF_PROXY_HOST        "/system/http_proxy/host"
<rodrigo_> seb128, I guess it's enough to justify keeping the g-s-d plugin :)
<seb128> ./drivel-3.0.3/src/journal.c:	dc->id.proxy_id = gconf_client_notify_add (dc->client, "/system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy", proxy_changed_cb,
<seb128> rodrigo_, indeed ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, but yes, will have a look at porting some of those to gsettings
<seb128> rodrigo_, don't bother with universe ones
<seb128> rodrigo_, but i.e seahorse could be nice
<seb128> or liferea
<rodrigo_> yeah, I'll have a look at those at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=gnome3-gsettings
<rodrigo_> ah, seahotse is not there
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will add it
<seb128> I'm still filing bugs
<rodrigo_> ok, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, you have a better list on the etherpad
<rodrigo_> ah, much better yeah
<seb128> hum
<seb128> why is firefox depending on python-gtk2?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's your fault!
<chrisccoulson> it's all my fault!
<seb128> indeed
<chrisccoulson> it's currently used for the profile migrator script, for people that have used the nightlies
<chrisccoulson> but i'm going to just remove it
<seb128> why is firefox depending on python-gtk2?
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't make any sense any more
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<seb128> do you need a bug for it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, i was going to drop it any way
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<seb128> that was easier that I though ;-)
<chrisccoulson> but thunderbird is a higher priority for me :P
<chrisccoulson> (especially seeing as everyone will be using chromium soon!)
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> they will use gmail in chromium as well
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> don't bother with emails clients :p
<didrocks> rodrigo_: the "application at startup" isn't ported in g-c-c yet, right?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, you mean the old g-session-properties?
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> (with session saving and all this fun stuff)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, I have a branch in g-c-c git about adding it, and the design is being discussed (https://live.gnome.org/Design/Proposals/Autostart), but I am starting to like the idea of not having that UI and just have a menu entry for launchers in g-shell/unity
<seb128> rodrigo_, how would you know what softwares are in the autostart list?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: anyway, g-s-p will be removed as it is?
<seb128> didrocks, I don't think there is any plan for the "save session" in g-c-c
<seb128> what rodrigo_ is working on is the autostarts
<rodrigo_> seb128, we might need an API in glib, or the shell/unity can just check it
<didrocks> seb128: well, as we will remove it from ui, if the ui is going away, I'll remove it
<didrocks> I won't* remove it
<rodrigo_> didrocks, not removed, it's still around afaik, but there's no launcher for it
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, but where would they display the list?
<seb128> rodrigo_, having to figure what icons to right click on is not user friendly ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, no list, launchers would show it
<seb128> hum
<rodrigo_> ah, you mean for disabling an autostart app
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> that might be tricky indeed
<didrocks> ok, I'll remove the GUI option then, not blacklist it by command line (even if I didn't find a switch equivalent to gnome-session-save)
<rodrigo_> seb128, add a comment to https://live.gnome.org/Design/Proposals/Autostart
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'll add it myself
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, seems good
<ronoc> seb128, will release later with that gtk3 port merged
<seb128> ronoc, thanks
<seb128> ronoc, well that can wait next week if you prefer time for testing
<ronoc> seb128, will i merged to trunk already
<seb128> ronoc, I doubt we will land a new unity today or tomorrow with the service switched to gtk3 now
<ronoc> seb128, ok
<seb128> so we can as well look at that together on monday
<ronoc> seb128, ok sound, I'll get an oneric partition ready in the interim
<seb128> ronoc, btw dunno if you saw but jibel said the sound indicator is broken in current oneiric
<seb128> he opened a bug about that earlier
<ronoc> seb128, i saw something about the metadata disappeared
<ronoc> seb128, I need to move over to oneric now
<seb128> ok
<seb128> good luck ;-)
<ronoc> thanks :)
<seb128> session restart, brb
<rodrigo_> seb128, the gnome-desktop3 branch for review -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-desktop3/3_1_2_release/+merge/65642
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, you need to update the -dev depends in the control.in as well
<seb128> in the rules you need to update the shlibs line for the new binary name
<seb128> rodrigo_, the .symbols first line needs to be updated as well
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, pushing
<rodrigo_> just grep'ed for the old name to make sure there was nothing else, seems it's ok now
<rodrigo_> lunch, bbl
 * mterry wonders why indicator-session isn't appearing in his panel
<seb128> mterry, do you have indicator-session-gtk2 installed?
<didrocks> mterry: you can wait for it appearing and do a quick MIR review in the same time? :p
<mterry> seb128, no I have the new gtk3 one.  It's on my disk, just not getting loaded
<mterry> didrocks, which MIR?
<seb128> mterry, loaded by what?
<mterry> seb128, by unity 4.0
<didrocks> mterry: this fresh new one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt-at-spi/+bug/801080 :)
<seb128> mterry, neither unity nor indicator-applet are on gtk3
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 801080 in qt-at-spi "[MIR] qt-at-spi" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> mterry, unity 4 has it panel service still on gtk2
<mterry> seb128, oh!  I got fooled
<mterry> seb128, yup, I don't have the gtk2 one
<seb128> mterry, njpatel said it's like 5 lines to do gtk3 but he was waiting on indicators to be available to test
<seb128> mterry, we will switch and clean next week
<njpatel> It's always "5-lines" until the 500-line diff!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> njpatel, don't worry we will keep you locked until it's done
<seb128> njpatel, can be 500 lines that's not an issue
<njpatel> seb128, heh, you can try!
<didrocks> and 0 don't count!
<didrocks> :-)
<njpatel> seb128, it really shouldn't be that hard, but I'm sure I'm missing something or ted has decided to break everything
<njpatel> seb128, also, I need to make things hard for didrocks, of course :)
<seb128> njpatel, it's only code, how hard can it be
<didrocks> njpatel: where will be the pleasure otherwise? :)
 * njpatel adds a new dep for nux: unity!
<didrocks> already the dual dep is fun :)
<seb128> njpatel, didrocks is hidding in shame since you changed the unity lib soname in a commit
<seb128> njpatel, which he backported without updating the packaging
<njpatel> seb128, aaah, bad didrocks !
 * njpatel runs
<seb128> njpatel, so give him a break, it's enough for a man in a week ;-)
<didrocks> njpatel: seb128: well, I caught 3 soname change in commits
<didrocks> just not the latest :)
 * didrocks blames upstream
<njpatel> haha
<didrocks> :-)
<njpatel> we are terrible :)
<didrocks> it's like for qt things with agateau. Before releasing something, he changed the licensing 3 times! :)
<didrocks> dx seems to want messing with packagers :-)
<didrocks> njpatel: next time, I won't be trapped and I will have my revenge at the rally!
<agateau> didrocks: and I am about to change those one more time!
<didrocks> \o/
<njpatel> didrocks, hehe
 * njpatel get's ready to add a new lib with a silly soname
<didrocks> njpatel: you try try "njpatel1Ã© as soname
<didrocks> I heard that even some people are using their name on dbus :p
<mterry> Is doko not around this week?
<seb128> mterry, not sure, he's not on leave on the calendar at least
<didrocks> mterry: no, you want that review for success and praise! :-)
<seb128> mterry, get didrocks to review u1-couch in exchange of the review you do for him
<seb128> mterry, it's fair trading and you workaround the doko issue ;-)
<mterry> eh it feels like stealing it from doko, but I'll do what it takes  ;)
<mterry> didrocks, you got some time?
 * didrocks feels a trap
<seb128> didrocks, well, he's the one not responding so it's only fair ;-)
 * didrocks whistles
<didrocks> mterry: so, now that I removed desktopcouch from oneconf, I need to look at couch things again? ;)
<mterry> didrocks, this is barely couch
<mterry> didrocks, more like seat
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> is it confortable? :)
<seb128> didrocks, well as long as it comes with a beer say yes ;-)
 * mterry is suspiciously silent
 * seb128 hugs nessita
<seb128> nessita, thanks for triaging my bug ;-)
<nessita> seb128: heh!
<seb128> nessita, do you come to the rally next week btw?
<nessita> seb128: I want to work on that bug, but I keep getting assigned other tasks :-(
<nessita> seb128: no... I will you though
<nessita> i will miss* you :-P
<seb128> same here
<didrocks> mterry: if you need it, I can have a look now :)
<mterry> didrocks, last thing holding up deja-dup: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deja-dup/+bug/491644
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 491644 in deja-dup "[MIR] deja-dup and friends" [Wishlist,In progress]
<didrocks> and friends? deja-dup is seat friendly then? : )
<mterry> :)
<didrocks> nessita: hey, are you aware of an issue where we can ask for a glib timeout for a sso credential and never receive the signal callback?
<mterry> didrocks, these qt-at-spi tests don't seem designed to run during build time, is that true?
<didrocks> mterry: no, because they are using dbus and they create some X windows :/
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, creating X windows is fine ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: for buildds?
<chrisccoulson> firefox runs the entire browser during its unit tests
<chrisccoulson> (on the buildd's)
<didrocks> sudo apt-get install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11
<didrocks> oupss
<didrocks> waow
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, xvfb-run ftw ;)
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> didrocks, xvfb?
<chrisccoulson> indeed :)
<seb128> that's what i.e pygtk does
<didrocks> ok, didn't know it
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, the mochitest suite runs a full browser (and a simulated http server), and can do pretty much anything (eg, simulating input events etc)
<didrocks> that's nice to know :)
<didrocks> mterry: run-tests isn't runned in ubuntuone-couch build time as well, right?
<seb128> hum, I should get popcorns while I watch didrocks and mterry counting points ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: some people are working, other are slackering :p
<mterry> :)
<nessita> didrocks: hey there! I'm not completely sure what you're asking. What I do know is that our current sso client does not work on O due to keyring API changes, dobey is working on fixing that
<nessita> didrocks: does that answer your question? /me guess no
<didrocks> it's not the client, I'm using the sso API and in natty or oneiric, when I request for credential, sometimes, I don't get the callback
<mterry> didrocks, actually, run-tests does look like it spawns an xvfb session.  It might actually be runnable on a build server
<didrocks> nessita: I have an example if you want
<didrocks> mterry: right
<dobey> mterry: in u1couch? it doesn't need xvfbâ¦ if run-tests has that, i'd consider it a bug
<mterry> dobey, well it does have it
<didrocks> nessita: bzr branch lp:oneconf ; cd oneconf/oneconf/networksync ; python ssohandler.py
<dobey> mterry: ok, i'm pretty sure u1couch has no GUI, so it shouldn't be required :)
<didrocks> nessita: there is a first authentification call, which works 100% of the time, the a g_timeout_add_seconds for 10s which tries again to authentify. This one work 50% of the time (getting the dbus signal as answer)
<didrocks> mterry: ok, all looks fine for u1-couch, bonus point to run the testsuite, but I won't block on that
<didrocks> oh wait!
<didrocks> W: ubuntuone-couch source: out-of-date-standards-version 3.9.1 (current is 3.9.2)
<didrocks> no, I can't, it's too much :-)
 * mterry will buy one less beer for didrocks now
<didrocks> mterry: </kidding> ok promoting ;)
<mterry> :)
<nessita> didrocks: oh
<nessita> didrocks: the ussoc service shutdown after 10 seconds of inactivity
<didrocks> nessita: ok, so it can receive the signal, but still tells "ok bye"
<didrocks> it's like if you enter a store and "too late, we're closing" :)
<didrocks> but still taking the request, just not answering ;)
<nessita> didrocks: we have a counter that is increased after each request and decreased after each response... so not sure how that can happen
<nessita> didrocks: please file a bug and attach your sso logs
<nessita> didrocks: what ubuntu are you running
<didrocks> mterry: one less beer? I can wait for promoting during the rally, being beer-conditionally started :)
<didrocks> nessita: I got it on natty and oneiric
<didrocks> nessita: sure for filing a bug, what should I attach as logs?
<mterry> didrocks, fine.  /me starts assigning more MIRs to didrocks
<nessita> didrocks: I guess your request is being answered between the counter check and the actual shutdown, which is a pain
<nessita> didrocks: .cache/sso
 * didrocks use this awesome new "mute bug mails feature"
<mterry> didrocks, ooh, what email client do you use?  i want that
<didrocks> nessita: ok, will file a bug :)
<didrocks> mterry: heh, launchpad does that now (on specific bug though)
<nessita> didrocks: thanks! in the mean time you should change your reconnect time to more than 10 seconds (or less), but not exactly 10
<didrocks> nessita: well, this was just my test case, I don't make that in real life, I just do that if you disconnect/reconnect in 10 seconds :)
<nessita> ah
<nessita> don't allow the user do that with 10 seconds apart!
<nessita> :-P
<didrocks> so yeah, you are quite screwed if nm reconnects in 10 seconds
<didrocks> well, it's rather there network connection ;)
<nessita> didrocks: we can always change our internal timeout
<nessita> until we actually fix the bug (which is not trivial to fix)
<didrocks> nessita: well, it will be the same issue
<nessita> yeap
<didrocks> nessita: for oneconf, I have an "activity" tag
<didrocks> is there is activity turn on by every request
<didrocks> it will increase the daemon life time by the timeout time
<didrocks> mterry: done, keep me posted on qt-at-spi
<mterry> didrocks, it was approved
<didrocks> oh nice :)
<didrocks> mterry: and no, I didn't turn off bug mails already :p
<mterry> :)
 * mterry now bugs archive admins
<didrocks> mterry: for what? ;)
<mterry> to actually promote
<mterry> didrocks, oh!  you're an archive admin aren't you
<didrocks> it's what I intended by "done" :-)
<mterry> didrocks, yay!
 * mterry hugs didrocks, gives him his beer back
 * didrocks hugs mterry!
<didrocks> ok, editing the seed now
<didrocks> (for qt-at-spi)
<mterry> didrocks, k.  let me know when you're done and I'll throw in DD
<didrocks> mterry: it's all yours :)
<mterry> didrocks, I'll update ubuntu-meta while I'm at it
<didrocks> mterry: perfect!
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> i guess the ~/.gtk-bookmarks didn't become ~/.gtk-3.0-bookmarks for 3.x also
<didrocks> nessita: bug #801154 FYI
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 801154 in ubuntu-sso-client "Some request can be missed in racy calls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801154
<didrocks> mterry: just on librsync, was there a good ending on that? I'm not clear from the bug report
<mterry> didrocks, a good ending in the sense that doko seemed to agree it didn't need lively maintenance.  I confirmed that upstream is all but dead, though debian upstream is active
<mterry> didrocks, our own martin pool used to be a maintainer, but hasn't touched it in years
<didrocks> mterry: ok, finishing the other promotions then, hold up!
<rodrigo_> seb128, does the g-desktop branch look ok now? Can I upload?
<seb128> rodrigo_, let me check
<seb128> rodrigo_, seems fine yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks for the review!
<seb128> rodrigo_, yw ;-)
<seb128> dobey, no they didn't
<seb128> dobey, the format didn't change so no reason to rename the file
<dobey> seb128: sure. but i've had to deal with my fair share of unreasonable changes before in gtk :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, you did a copy error, bug #801132
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 801132 in indicator-session "indicator-session should depend on indicator-session-gtk2" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801132
<seb128> kenvandine, you made it recommends the wrong indicator ;-)
<seb128> which also explain why mterry didn't have the -gtk2 installed earlier
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> (did you read my ping or just fixed it at the same time?)
<kenvandine> seb128, oh... i didn't see the bug :)
<kenvandine> i fixed my desktop box last night and was able to test in a VM this morning :)
<seb128> ;-)
<cyphermox> omg omg omg the repairs work has just been finished in my debroom. I can finally sleep on my bed, for the first time since UDS!
<kenvandine> cyphermox, woot
<cyphermox> err. debroom = bedroom
<cyphermox> kenvandine: indeed :D
 * cyphermox crawls back to C code
<kenvandine> seb128, i usually use my desktop box to run relatively clean VMs that point to a local apt repo... very useful for testing upgrades before uploading :)
<kenvandine> but the motherboard died in it recently, just got the new one in it last night
<seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
<kenvandine> testing upgrade paths are generally a good thing :)
<seb128> I usually rely on users to complain if I break something :p
<kenvandine> hehe... i like working with VMs
<seb128> (did I just said that out loud? ;-)
<kenvandine> haha :)
<seb128> I liked vms in a time where our desktop was running in those :p
<seb128> can't run unity in kvm
<didrocks> cyphermox: talking about repairing things :)
<cyphermox> didrocks: ?
<kenvandine> yeah, it was working in virtualbox
<kenvandine> but now i get fallback mode
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you have any idea how I can give you the needed info for network-manager messing with me? Like, at every startup in the morning, it doesn't want to connect to my wiki
<cyphermox> repairing the indicators not showing in my session? :D
<seb128> didrocks, use the etherpad :p
<didrocks> cyphermox: also there is the policykit dialog telling it wants to change some system data, and then prompting for a blank dialog
<didrocks> hum
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> that's something new
<kenvandine> wifi != wiki :)
<didrocks> seb128: see!
<didrocks> kenvandine: also ;)
<seb128> didrocks, it's not me who typed wiki!
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> cyphermox: so yeah, if I try to setup the right passphrase it doesn't work as well, still trying to connect
<didrocks> seb128: :p
<seb128> ok, it's not friday and I should go back to work
<didrocks> cyphermox: if I try to disconnect/choose again, it doesn't work
<cyphermox> didrocks: file a bug against NM. in theory the apport hook rocks
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'm forced to reboot
<seb128> let's keep opening bugs about gtk2 and gconf cleaning ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, did you see i fixed ubuntu-artwork too?
<didrocks> cyphermox: so, basically, when I have that, I should apport-bug?
<cyphermox> yeah
<didrocks> cyphermox: the thing is that, when I have that, I have no network consequently :p
<seb128> kenvandine, I did, very productive day ;-)
<cyphermox> one for the wifi not connecting and stuff, and one for the applet showing a blank dialog
<seb128> kenvandine, now you just need to get the new gwibber in and you will have deserved your Dublin beers
<kenvandine> very long day....
<seb128> ;-)
<cyphermox> didrocks: you can connect to wired :D
<didrocks> cyphermox: it's in the same session
<kenvandine> i won't be as productive today :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, letting that screwed, and the connected from wired and sending the report
<seb128> kenvandine, seems like you kept nothing to do for next week, you will have time for beers ;-)
 * didrocks adds the discussion to tomboy as well
<cyphermox> didrocks: yeah. at least I'll get syslog too... I'm vaguely worried about kernel 3.0 majorly screwing with wifi drivers
<didrocks> cyphermox: possible, I can try to boot in an older kernel. It seems racy anyway, I really have to reboot to get things ok
<cyphermox> yeah
<didrocks> I have it every morning systematically
<cyphermox> :/
<didrocks> so, then, need to reboot once or twice
<didrocks> not really nice :)
<rodrigo_> ugh, no permissions for g-desktop, seems it's not in the packageset
<rodrigo_> cjwatson, ^
<seb128> rodrigo_, gnome-desktop3 you mean?
<cjwatson> can I have that in unabbreviated form please
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<cjwatson> I don't know your jargon
<seb128> cjwatson, gnome-desktop3
<rodrigo_> cjwatson, sorry, it's gnome-desktop3
<cjwatson> added
<rodrigo_> cjwatson, thanks!
<didrocks> mterry: not loosing time to remove deja-dup from featured apps! :)
<mterry> didrocks, it's a WI!  Gotta get those down
<didrocks> ;)
<mterry> tremolux, heyo.  Now that software-center updated to oneiric app-install-data, Deja Dup doesn't show up as I'd like.  It shows up as "Backup" (like it does in the UI).  But in the context of software-center, I'd prefer it show as "Deja Dup Backup Tool" so people know what they are getting.  Is there a custom desktop key I can add?
<tremolux> mterry: hey! so, did you change your desktop file?
<mterry> tremolux, yes, to show as merely "Backup" (part of the effort of blending into the OS better)
<tremolux> mterry: ah
<mterry> tremolux, that works for once you have it installed, but in the context of software-center, where it is one of many apps, I figure something more explicit makes sense
<tremolux> mterry: yep
<mterry> tremolux, sort of like how "Calculator" should probably appear in U-S-C as "GNOME Calculator" or something
<mterry> Maybe...
<mterry> tremolux, is there a key for that already, or should I file a feature request?
<tremolux> mterry: yeah, I don't think there is such a thing currently, I'll check to be sure
<tremolux> mterry: so you changed X-GNOME-FullName to "Backup" ?
<mterry> tremolux, well, I dropped it morelike.  That key will be shown in the UI, so it wouldn't fulfill the goal of a different name in the UI and USC
<tremolux> mterry: yeah
<mterry> tremolux, I'd like something like X-Ubuntu-Software-Center-Name or X-Specific-Name or something
<tremolux> mterry: yep, so there's not something like that now, but it's easy to implement
<mterry> tremolux, OK, will file a bug
<tremolux> mterry: sounds good!
<jcastro> mterry: woo, bye synaptic!
<mterry> jcastro, :)  glad to see it gone finally
<chrisccoulson> where's it gone?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, a nice farm where it'll be taken care of
<chrisccoulson> lol
<mterry> chrisccoulson, no, just off CD
<james_w> you can't ever go visit it though
<chrisccoulson> oh, i just looked at oneiric-changes ;)
<chrisccoulson> mterry, your changelog is missing "Added thunderbird to desktop-recommends"
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, were's my check?
<chrisccoulson> if, by "check" you actually mean "guinness", then it's in dublin ;)
<mterry> heh
<seb128> jcastro, mterry: synaptic is not off the CD yet
<seb128> somebody needs to make apturl stop using it first before that
<mterry> ah...
<seb128> (pitti cleaned software-properties yesterday)
<mpt> cyphermox, hi, did you get any feedback from the security team about the firewall settings? <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricDesktopNetworkEnhancementsSpec#Design>
<cyphermox> mpt, sorry, no. let's do this now?
<cyphermox> (or at the sprint?)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, is anything other than ubufox pulling apturl on to the CD?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no
<seb128> it's all your fault again!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, pants :(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you are keeping synaptic on the CD!
<chrisccoulson> i guess what i really need to do is to rewrite the plugin finder to use sessioninstaller
<seb128> which is ironic because you are the one who needs the space ;-)
<chrisccoulson> but i hadn't really planned any time for it ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> how big is synaptic?
<chrisccoulson> as big as thunderbird? ;)
<jcastro> chrisccoulson: you're going to end up paying out alot of guiness
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> less than a mb
<seb128> so "not close" ;-)
<jcastro> he's probably way more doomed than one meg
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, sessioninstaller, nice that you mention it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #801202 is yours if you want to ;-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 801202 in sessioninstaller "Should use gobject introspection (GTK3)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801202
<seb128> just opened it today, grab it while it's fresh ;-)
<chrisccoulson> so, the snaptic package is still around 700kB. i'm not sure what the is equivalent to on the CD, but it doesn't sound *that* insignificant
<chrisccoulson> i should probably spend some time at the rally next week to rid ubufox of apturl
<seb128> chrisccoulson, deb space ~= CD space usually
<seb128> they compress about the same
<chrisccoulson> rather than making apturl not use synaptic
<chrisccoulson> seb128, so, 700kB would be nice
<seb128> indeed
<mpt> cyphermox, how can I help unblock you?
<cyphermox> mpt, after all, care to look for the feedback about your design? I know I offered but this will cut the middle-man and I'm trying to finish up all I have to do with usb_modeswitch before the spring
<mpt> chrisccoulson, would anything visible change about what happens when you click an <apt:whatever> link?
<cyphermox> *sprint
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: see, oneconf is better, it's only 23kB! :)
<seb128> mpt, hi
<seb128> mpt, do you know what's the status on bug #588200
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 588200 in system-config-printer "Replace standard printing applet with indicator" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588200
<mpt> seb128, it's one of my work items to design that
<seb128> mpt, should that have a design component?
<mpt> seb128, yes, I'll reassign it once I've written it up
<seb128> mpt, ok, thanks
<seb128> mpt, I just wanted to check that it didn't get forgotten on the way ;-)
<mpt> Ah, I spy a problem
<mpt> It's a "High" importance bug report linked to a "Low" importance blueprint
<mpt> So the work item shows up as "Low" when perhaps it shouldn't
<seb128> mpt, well, we whitelisted the systray icon so I'm fine with "low" from a platform perspective
<seb128> mpt, but from a design perspective if you want to get no systray use it might be higher ;-)
<chrisccoulson> mpt - clicking an apt: link opens software-center doesn't it?
<chrisccoulson> firefox should just use the default handler for that
<seb128> what is apturl doing exactly?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ubufox calls it to install browser plugins, but it calls apturl directly rather than relying on the default handler
<seb128> chrisccoulson, does it have its own ui to install those or what?
<mpt> chrisccoulson, it's rather a nuisance that Firefox brings up the dialog asking you if it's okay to use something you (in general) have probably never heard of called "xdg-open" to open the link. Is there a way to whitelist it?
<seb128> I mean what does it do that sessioninstaller, aptdaemon and s-c don't do?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it doesn't have any UI for indicating progress (it relies on apturl to do that)
<chrisccoulson> mpt, when does that happen? that sounds like a separate issue
<mpt> chrisccoulson, sorry, I'm out of date. I just tried it again and it asked me to confirm launching Ubuntu Software Center.
<mpt> cyphermox, ubuntu-hardened@?
<chrisccoulson> mpt, yeah. it should display the correct name of the application now, as a nice side effect of fixing bug 727372
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 727372 in firefox "FF 4 requires both .desktop and gconf entries for url handlers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727372
<mpt> chrisccoulson, next step to show the icon too? :-)
<chrisccoulson> mpt, yeah, i planned to do that as well
<mpt> neat
<chrisccoulson> it's just not very high priority :/
 * mpt wonders why Thunderbird persists in thinking that Chromium is the default browser, when everything else recognizes that Firefox is
<chrisccoulson> mpt, which version of thunderbird?
<mpt> chrisccoulson, 3.1.10
<chrisccoulson> mpt - i bet if you open gnome-default-application-properties, close it again and then restart thunderbird, it might start working ;)
<chrisccoulson> i think that's probably because the old thunderbird still uses gnomevfs
<chrisccoulson> although, i thought we fixed most cases of this already
<chrisccoulson> in any case, the new thunderbird does things correctly
<mpt> cyphermox, message sent
<mpt> chrisccoulson, I'm impressed at how you use "I bet" and "might" in the same sentence, ;-) but no, that doesn't work
<mpt> I'll try again after a logout
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have a bug about tb indicator-messages integration?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did that land in oneiric yet?
<seb128> just wondering if bug #367175 is a duplicate or should be closed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 367175 in thunderbird "thunderbird not using indicator applet" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/367175
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm going to look at why the indicator doesn't work properly before i upload anything
<seb128> ok
 * didrocks waves goodnight
<LLStarks> cjwatson, is upstart 1.3 waiting for anything? i think it hosed normal booting.
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you still care about pygame? do you have any clue or opinion on bug #777417
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 777417 in pygame "Unity launcher doesn't work well with Python Pygame apps" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777417
<seb128> not sure if that's the sort of thing that should be fixed in pygame?
<seb128> does anybody know the name of an usb sniffer?
<seb128> i.e something to watch what's going on between a device and the computer when you connect it
<kenvandine> seb128, not me...
<seb128> kenvandine, not really a desktopish topic but I got asked by somebody I know so I said I would ask around if somebody else knows ;-)
<dobey> seb128: on linux, or on windows?
<seb128> linux if possible but if you have a name for windows that might still be useful ;-)
<dobey> i installed one on windows a while back. let me reboot my laptop and see what it was
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<dobey> ugh, why does lightdm not do the shutdown/restart stuff correctly
<kenvandine> seb128, mind if i update eds to 3.1.2?
<kenvandine> not sure why i considered touching the eds package... it FTBFS now :/
<dobey> heh
<kenvandine> not my fault... it FTBFS without my tiny change :)
<seb128> kenvandine, does it? in any case you know what happen to people uploading packages nobody else want to deal with? :)
<kenvandine> i know... :/
<kenvandine> but i need the ebook gir included in the package :)
<dobey> seb128: snoopypro
<seb128> joke aside go for it, we said we would upgrade to GNOME 3.1
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, will do
 * kenvandine wonders what will break :)
<dobey> the world
<seb128> kenvandine, well if you update e-d-s you probably need to update evo with it ;-)
<kenvandine> yeah... i know
<seb128> kenvandine, or see if cyphermox wants to do that for you in exchange for a beer
<kenvandine> full of happy news here...
<seb128> he has been maintaining those for a bit and he's looking for one extra ack for his desktop upload
<cyphermox> huh?
<seb128> cyphermox, want to update the evo stack to 3.1, get sponsoring by kenvandine and maybe get the missing ack for your uploads? ;-)
<cyphermox> ah, yes, exchange
<kenvandine> cyphermox, eds fails to build now... i am trying to update it to 3.1.2
<seb128> cyphermox, no, e-d-s, evo ...
<seb128> updating to the new unstable serie ;-)
<cyphermox> yes, should be fun
<kenvandine> cyphermox, woot
<cyphermox> (and has a risk of making evo work better)
<kenvandine> cyphermox, let me push my branch i started for eds
<cyphermox> ok
<kenvandine> i kind of urgently need it built with the ebook gir file included
<cyphermox> ok
 * kenvandine overheated his laaptop again trying to build it :)
<cyphermox> so you say e-d-s is already pretty much done right?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, dunno ... maybe :)
 * cyphermox welcomes a change from C.... project ;)
<kenvandine> i think it was about done building it overheated here...
<kenvandine> i'll push my branch and you can take over :)
<kenvandine> :-D
<cyphermox> it actually overheated? O.o?
<kenvandine> yes...
<seb128> cyphermox, it might give you desktop upload rights as well, sorry about that stalling, I was sort of waiting for a few extra uploads to comment but there was not a lot of sponsoring recently
<kenvandine> it happens everytime i build gtk too
<cyphermox> seb128: it's alright. I haven't touched new packages lately, really busy with usb_modeswitch, as I mentioned a couple of times ;)
<kenvandine> seb128, what is up with these .xz files on gnome.org?
<kenvandine> i extracted it and recreated a .gz
<seb128> cyphermox, indeed ;-)
<cyphermox> kenvandine, branch?
<seb128> kenvandine, don't
<seb128> kenvandine, we package .bz2 nowadays, .xz is the next generation ones
<kenvandine> cyphermox, just a sec, booting :)
<cyphermox> seb128: it's almost done btw, down to 1 small function and main (but main is huge)
<cyphermox> oh, mbiebl asked a few days ago on #nm; do we support .xz in the archive now?
<kenvandine> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/evolution-data-server/ubuntu/
<kenvandine> cyphermox, ^^
<seb128> kenvandine, GNOME IS (olav) is wanting to move to .xz to save mirror space, bandwith etc, so they switch from .gz .bz2 to .bz2 .xz this cycle
<kenvandine> let me know when you need it sponsored
<seb128> they will do .xz only after 3.2
<seb128> cyphermox, yes, I pinged around about this when GNOME said they would switch and cjwatson fixed the remaining bits before natty
<seb128> not sure it got real world confirmation but the bug was closed as fixed
<kenvandine> seb128, does AutostartCondition work with gsettings?
<seb128> kenvandine, yes
<kenvandine> i just found one place i hadn't removed gconf
<seb128> nautilus-autostart.desktop:AutostartCondition=GSettings org.gnome.desktop.background show-desktop-icons
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ one example
<kenvandine> awesome
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> yw
<kenvandine> that will be the last gconf reference in gwibber :)
<kenvandine> done!
<kenvandine> :-D
<seb128> ;-)
<cyphermox> kenvandine, do you have logs for the ftbfs?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/631367/
<kenvandine> that was 3.0.2.1 though
<kenvandine> i think 3.1.2 builds
<kenvandine> it was generating the docs when my laptop shutdown
<cyphermox> oh, i see
<kenvandine> so my branch might just work :)
<cyphermox> I'll know soon, just getting the dependencies now
<kenvandine> you confirm and update evolution too... and i'll sponsor them for you
<cyphermox> ok
<rickspencer3> seb128, I htink if there is an easy place in pygame to set the correct property, we should patch pygame
<rickspencer3> otherwise, we should provide some guidance to app authors for how to do it themselves
<rickspencer3> seb128, but I don't 100% understand the problem
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok, I think I was basically pointing it in case some cares enough to do that or to raise it to upstream if they know those guys
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3!
<seb128> rickspencer3, the issue is basically that to match something on screen to its process or .desktop you need infos
<seb128> like xproperties or others
<cyphermox> kenvandine: ftbfs. groupwise was split out
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> seb128, just marked the gsettings bug fix committed for gwibber :)
<cyphermox> kenvandine: just about done, I'll test build and see if evo still runs
<seb128> kenvandine, great!
<cyphermox> kenvandine: lp:~mathieu-tl/evolution-data-server/3.1.2
<cyphermox> I need to go have dinner now, but I should be back in a few hours to tackle evo and the others
<cyphermox> huh, wow. I would have thought evo to run a little bit better even if it's a new unstable version
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-24
<chewyTree> hey guys, anyone interested in this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/801363
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 801363 in unity "Win+W won't show minimized windows" [Undecided,New]
<chewyTree> seems like it is more of a unity problem/opinion
<TheMuso> a/c
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<chrisccoulson> good morning pitti and TheMuso
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<TheMuso> Hey chrisccoulson.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: guten tag! Have you finally succeeded doing some gardening and bikeshedding despite the weather?
<pitti> didrocks: some, it got sunny in the evening; but most of the day was pretty lazy admittedly :/
<didrocks> pitti: well, when it's the weather forcing you, you can't be guilty :) and some rest is nice as well!
<TheMuso> Morning didrocks.
<didrocks> good morning TheMuso
<chrisccoulson> it's going to be an interesting week at the rally next week
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks!
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, guten tag, wie gehts?
<seb128> nice, yesterday's iso is down by 10 to 11 mb
<seb128> i.e almost in the budget
<bigon> seb128: dou you think you could have a look at merging cheese from debian experimental?
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> bigon, it's somewhat on my list but probably after the rally, it will need a collection of mirs
<bigon> indeed
<seb128> bigon, not speaking about the gst issue since we can only depends on good
<bigon> yeah that's suxxs :/
<seb128> bigon, we have work items on the gnome3 specs to mir those or demote cheese
<seb128> but since cheese will be used in empathy and maybe ubiquity we need to discuss what to do
<bigon> well libcheese-gtk is now on optional dep for empathy
<seb128> right
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> bigon, well we could mir mx, the new clutter libs, etc but we would still be blocked on the gst issue
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> bigon, do you need cheese for anything?
<bigon> well for the empathy integration, but I can live without I guess :)
<bigon> don't want to put 100 of pkg in telepathy ppa
<pitti> argh @ gnome-shell FTBFS; I forgot that I had a locally hacked glib header
<bigon> about gnome-shell I think that some changes should be merged from the gnome3-team ppa
<bigon> (like using firefox)
<seb128> it shouldn't use firefox
<seb128> it should use the standalone libmozjs
<pitti> seb128: iso size> cjwatson landed the .pyc cleaning, really great
<seb128> the goal of that lib was to avoid breaking things on firefox updates ;-)
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<seb128> pitti, I'm waiting to see what today's build give with deja-jup etc
<pitti> RAOF said that he can do some more dynamic linking of the gallium drivers, and some mono libs will still disappear
<pitti> and dropping python 2.6 support should give us some extra MBs, too
<bigon> seb128: well I mean adding the firefox icon instead of the epiphany one in the launcher
<seb128> bigon, oh ok
<seb128> bigon, the nice thing now is that we are on sync with Debian ;-)
<bigon> :p but well not for long I guess
<seb128> depends if somebody is wanting to maintaing gnome-shell in Ubuntu
<seb128> there was no sign of that so far
 * bigon leaves the room without making noises
<pitti> lol
<pitti> seb128: ok with me backporting http://git.gnome.org/browse/clutter/commit/?id=2b81d90dd7399c409cf23d7324ff909351dbefa3 to avoid having to patch gnome-shell?
<pitti> or should we go to 1.7.12 right away?
<pitti> 1.7.2, sorry
<pitti> (it's fixed there)
<seb128> pitti, I'm fine either way, if you want to update clutter go for it
<seb128> pitti, shouldn't g-s build if you disable the deprecation errors?
<pitti> well, "want to" is a bit too much (I don't care at all about it), but do we need to at some point anyway?
<seb128> we do I guess
<pitti> or should we stay with 1.6. (stable series?) for oneiric?
<pitti> seb128: yes, but I'd need to patch the build system for that, and this woudl mean introducing an ubuntu delta
<pitti> that's what I want to avoid
<pitti> it builds fine in sid, and I'd rather fix the cause than the symptom
<seb128> until they update their glib
<seb128> pitti, but well pick whatever is easier for you
<pitti> right, but it's still not a bug in g-s, it's a bug in clutter
<pitti> so it'll hit other packages as well, not just g-s
<seb128> pitti, I would just diff clutter 1.6 tarball with -1-6trunk and dump that in a patch
<seb128> http://git.gnome.org/browse/clutter/log/?h=clutter-1.6
<seb128> the 4 commits
<pitti> seb128: oh, right, they backported that
<seb128> pitti, I don't want to decide on the new clutter today, we don't have enough visibility for that
<pitti> right, doing that then
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<chrisccoulson> <bigon> about gnome-shell I think that some changes should be merged from the gnome3-team ppa like using firefox
<chrisccoulson> huh????!
<chrisccoulson> firefox doesn't even provide a shared libmozjs anymore, unless you want to load the entire browser (ie, libxul.so), just to get jsapi....
<chrisccoulson> feel free to do that, but i *guarantee* that gnome-shell will break with every single firefox upload i do ;)
<bigon> 10:03 < bigon> seb128: well I mean adding the firefox icon instead of the epiphany one in the launcher
<chrisccoulson> (in addition to making gnome-shell take a decade to start) ;)
<bigon> chrisccoulson: ^
<chrisccoulson> oh
<bigon> :p
<chrisccoulson> i misunderstood there then ;)
<chrisccoulson> that sounds better
<bigon> well I was only at my 1st coffee when I've posted that :p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<bigon> that was not really clear
<chrisccoulson> i should have read the entire scrollback before commenting ;)
<chrisccoulson> i saw your comment and had a "WTF?" moment ;)
<bigon> :)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you alternate late night and early morning days? ;-)
<seb128> pitti, danke fur die clutter "fix"? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: gern geschehen
<pitti> g-s builds fine now
<pitti> I'll retry the build when clutter is published
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, i'm good thanks
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thank you
<rodrigo_> ok, laptop works after a full upgrade, so ready to go to dublin :)
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, there's still time for us to break it before dublin!
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, I won't upgrade anymore :)
<rodrigo_> specially if I see a firefox package :)
<rodrigo_> well, there are still some kept pack packages, so will install some of those, so yeah, something can break still :)
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> so, i wonder if people have started to notice yet that Synaptic hasn't actually dropped from the CD? ;)
<rodrigo_> hi again, seb128 :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh, right, I said hello one hour earlier, it's friday, has been a busy week :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you wonder if they started to notice the reason is you and your firefox? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i've saved everybody! \o/
<rodrigo_> seb128, :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, don't worry, I like a lot when you tell me 'hi' :D
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, and it's a "hi" coming without bug or anything today!
<seb128> just a friendly hello ;-)
<pitti> seb128: you recently ran the lucid retracer manually, right?
<seb128> pitti, yes, did I screw something?
<pitti> seb128: the apport failure in bug 800984 looks like there were no configured apt sources for -updates/-security?
<seb128> let's rephrase, I bet I did, "what did I break"? ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, those are the ones I like :D
<pitti> just weird because usually they get added right from the start
<seb128> pitti, that's a natty bug there, not a lucid one?
<pitti> seb128: ah, indeed, sorry; misread
<pitti> seb128: I'll have a look
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, but yes, I'm pretty sure we usually have -updates and -security
<rodrigo_> ok, last reboot hopefully
<rodrigo_> brb
<pitti> seb128: eww -- it indeed only has maverick-{updates,proposed,security?
<seb128> pitti, hum, I probably screwed the sed call in the sources.list, sorry :-(
<pitti> I'll check the oneiric one as well while I'm at it
<seb128> pitti, oh no, it's not screwed sed
<seb128> pitti, it's right for the unstable cycle
<pitti> right
<seb128> pitti, we just didn't change it where natty-updates opened
<seb128> when
<seb128> we could keep both -1 and current sources for those in the sources.list to avoid those issues
<seb128> I guess they would just error out during the unstable cycle or be empty
<seb128> but that should break anything
<seb128> "shouldnt"
<pitti> yes, I'll add both
<seb128> pitti, thanks
 * didrocks cries at every bzr bd-do one Qt
<didrocks> on*
<didrocks> weirdly, if I just dpkg-source -x, or untar the tarball, it's very fastâ¦
<Sweetshark> apropos very fast: the ubuntu wiki is not. it takes ~2 minutes to get a freaking login.
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, you've done a new set of language packs for maverick?
<chrisccoulson> ah yes
<chrisccoulson> i need to update my firefox-stable PPA then ;)
<AlanBell> hi smspillaz, would like to chat about some compiz default settings when you have a sec
<pitti> chrisccoulson: dpm did, but yes
<pitti> chrisccoulson: what did you change there? drop xpis and add the -locale dependencies?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, for https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable i repack them without the xpi's and add the recommends
<chrisccoulson> oh, i'd best get them in whilst the PPA build queue is empty :)
<njpatel> Does LightDM support automatic logins? Or is that just broken in O?
<seb128> njpatel, it does
<seb128> njpatel, but you need to edit /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<njpatel> seb128, aah
<seb128> # default-user = Username of default user to log in as
<seb128> # default-user-timeout = Delay before logging in in seconds (use 0 for automatic login)
<seb128> njpatel, ^ those keys
<rodrigo_> hmm, where can I see the status of the uploaded packages for oneiric?
<rodrigo_> once accepted I mean
<pitti> seb128: oh, we should probably fix that in casper, to work on the live system?
<seb128> rodrigo_, gnome-desktop3 is in binary New due to the soname change if that's the question
<njpatel> seb128, also, do you know how to stop all the default locale warnings in the terminal?
<seb128> pitti, done previous week
<pitti> ah, great
 * pitti rsyncs the current ones
<seb128> njpatel, no, don't get that here
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, that was the question
<njpatel> seb128, is it just for en_GB? ;)
<seb128> pitti,
<seb128> casper (1.269) oneiric; urgency=low
<seb128>   [ Colin Watson ]
<seb128>   * Add LightDM autologin support (LP: #797669).
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, so,where do you check that?
<seb128> rodrigo_, launchpad, where else? ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop3/3.1.2-0ubuntu1
<seb128> it says "New"
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue is the queue
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, was asking for a page showing the status of all source packages
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm not sure to understand the question, you want a list of 15000 sources with what info onit?
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, just a way to know what's been NEW'ed, etc, but I guess checking the package source I'm interested in is enough :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, usually just check the queue, i.e the second URL I gave you
<seb128> or the launchpad infos for the version you uploaded and are interested in
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you need it to be Newed?
<rodrigo_> no, just that it didn't show up on the repos, so wanted a way to check why
<rodrigo_> but I'll build it locally for my g-s-d build
<seb128> rodrigo_, you didn't test build it locally before uploading? ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I can new it but I was avoiding to throw a soname change in on friday before traveling
<seb128> rodrigo_, I figured it could wait on monday
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I did, but on my desktop machine, not on the laptop, where I'm now :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh yes, it can wait
<rodrigo_> I won't upload g-s-d until a lot of testing, so it can wait
<seb128> rodrigo_, well you can get the binaries from launchpad, the first URL I gave you
<seb128> click on the architecture you want
<seb128> it has links to the binaries
<rodrigo_> no need, just built it here :)
<rodrigo_> my question was just to check why it wasn't in the repos
<rodrigo_> so never mind :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, new binaries go through New and need to be reviewed or approved so you can usually assume that if things are not in they either failed to build or are waiting in New ;-)
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source>/<version> has details about the status and is the place to check in any case
<seb128> I've a firefox shortcut to "https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source>"
<seb128> lpsource <source>
<seb128> that's handy ;-)
<seb128> I've similar ones for bug lists etc
<rodrigo_> yeah, adding it
<seb128> on bugzilla as well
<seb128> hum, lunch time
<seb128> bbl
<pitti> seb128: indeed, autologin works fine now in kvm
<pitti> I just don't get any default launchers in unity-2d, hmm
<didrocks> seb128: lpp (LaunchPad Package) here, next to lpb, bgâ¦ and "latest crack" (directing to daily live CD build) :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh?
<pitti> didrocks: just try it
<pitti> kvm -m 1024 -vga vmware -cdrom oneiric-desktop-amd64.iso
<didrocks> pitti: possible under some condition, let me check something
<didrocks> yeah, with fallbacking
<pitti> I do get default launchers for a fresh user in the installed system (in -2d), though
<pitti> righht, that's the auto-fallback
<pitti> in my local testing that's with explicit choice in gdm
<didrocks> right, but you are choosing the session for the fresh user?
<pitti> right
<didrocks> just one sec, confirming :)
<didrocks> pitti: so right, it's only applied on the selected session
<jibel> pitti, didrocks empty launcher bug 797672. could you please confirm.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797672 in unity-2d "No default apps on launcher on a live session." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797672
<didrocks> pitti: still the same issue with gconf path
<pitti> jibel: cheers
<didrocks> pitti: the correct solution is to choose the right session before login, so implementing the detection at the dm level
<didrocks> which I didn't want to do with gdm, but I have a WI for that for lightdm
<pitti> didrocks: OOI, what does that have to do with the default launchers? shouldn't they be in gconf or gsettings schemas?
<didrocks> it's one of my goal for the sprint, but I need robert next to me :)
<pitti> heh, then doing this as a pair indeed makes sense next week
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, they can be in the common gconf set
<didrocks> but that doesn't fix everything
<didrocks> like the gconf option to tell metacity "remove decoration from maximized window"
<pitti> oh, the session and gconf defaults are related through the default XDG path setting?
<didrocks> you only want that in unity-2d and the guys implemented that as a gconf key, not a dbus call to detect if unity-2d is running
<didrocks> pitti: there is a dedicated GCONF path
<pitti> ok, now I underfstand
<didrocks> DEFAULTS_PATH
<didrocks> and MANDATORY_PATH
<didrocks> and as we are running gconf before gnome-sessionâ¦
<didrocks> so yeah, all that detection should really be at the dm level to avoid that :)
<jibel> didrocks, bug 797676 might be related too.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797676 in unity-2d "Launcher doesn't autohide" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797676
<didrocks> jibel: hum, I don't think so as it should be the default, with or without gconf key
<didrocks> jibel: so, if it's not, the code should, in case of no keys present, have that behavior
<tseliot> pitti: does jockey have a function to get the current debian arch? Or shall I create one in both fglrx and nvidia's handlers (because of multi-arch)?
<pitti> tseliot: not right now; but it's easy to find out with dpkg --print-architecture
<pitti> tseliot: I think create it in the handlers for now
<tseliot> pitti: maybe I can add it in nvidia-common (as the handlers use it already)
<Sweetshark> pitti: I have a nifty little LO 3.3.3 release for natty here (actually there: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-nattytest2/+sourcepub/1789243/+listing-archive-extra )
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<pitti> Sweetshark: oh, nice!
<pitti> Sweetshark: some changes look a bit intrusive for an SRU, though?
<Sweetshark> pitti: I did some more changes (translations and icons updates) as 1:3.3.3-1ubuntu1~ppa2 (not uploaded yet). How should I upload that as ~ppa2 to the LO packaging archive or directly as 3.3.3-1ubuntu1, because we will SRU that (will we?) ...
<pitti> Sweetshark: ah, it doesn't actually change multiarch bits?
<pitti> the Debian changelog makes it sound like it, but your merge changelog says it's conditional?
<Sweetshark> the most intrustive changes are the ~30 critical upstream fixes between 3.3.2 and 3.3.3 ...
<pitti> these seem fine
<pitti> I was just concerned about introducing multiarch in an SRU for the libs
<pitti> if the packages don't actually change that, it seems fine
<Sweetshark> lemme check a diff of debian/rules
<pitti> Sweetshark: for the 30 upstream fixes I think we do want it as an SRU; WDYT?
<Sweetshark> pitti: yes, I have not investigated them all that close, but if somebody ports a patch back to 3.3 after 3.3.2, it is likely worth it. (and all those are under code review upstream)
<Sweetshark> pitti: is disabling (broken) sdbc-postgresql an issue? It is basically fubar in 3.3, so disabling it is just honest.
<pitti> Sweetshark: yes; we can't remove a package from natty
<pitti> Sweetshark: that's libreoffice-sdbc-postgresql, right?
<pitti> Sweetshark: so removing it from debian/control is a no-go for natty, I'm afraid
<pitti> Sweetshark: I'd just not touch it at all if it's broken
<pitti> Sweetshark: for oneiric, you can make it an empty transitional package
<pitti> (if it won't be fixed any more, ever)
<pitti> Sweetshark: if you drop it from debian/control, we'd just introduce an archive inconsistency (NBS), and it wouldn't make the natty final version disappear
<Sweetshark> oh, I hope it will be fixed sometime, it is not broken beyond hope.
<Sweetshark> pitti: I can explicitly reenable it for natty, so we still explicitly build it on natty (even if broken).
<pitti> Sweetshark: sounds better for the SRU
<Sweetshark> the multiarch changes seem to be not be about LOs install, but about finding multiarched deps, so that should be ok too.
<seb128> hate the retracers
<seb128> "    from launchpadlib.errors import HTTPError"
<seb128> who does that keep happening? fixing it...
<Sweetshark> oh great, rene silently disabled parallel builds with more than 2 jobs (likely because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/make-dfsg/+bug/759704 )
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 759704 in make-dfsg "make crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pitti> seb128: meh :/
<Sweetshark> although it can still ftbfs with 2 jobs -- its just unlikely.
<kenvandine> cyphermox, good morning
<kenvandine> cyphermox, working on evolution too?
<Sweetshark> pitti: btw for 3.4.X bug 759704 will be a sure build breaker for parallel builds -- does that qualify for importance 'high'?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 759704 in make-dfsg "make crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759704
<pitti> Sweetshark: oh, sure; but we actually need someone to work on this/a fix, too :)
<Sweetshark> pitti: well, there is a complete patch by me in the bug and actually a patched release in the LO ppa.
<pitti> oh, did you subscribe sponsors?
<pitti> ah, seems fixed upstream, nice
<pitti> Sweetshark: (terminology nitpick: you attached a patch, not a debdiff -- there's no debian/changelog, debian/patches/* etc handling)
<pitti> Sweetshark: want me to sponsor that for you?
<Sweetshark> pitti: I just did not to splash into somebody elses package (esp. since you can break a lot of stuff with tweaking GNU make).
<Sweetshark> pitti: please do. And there are changelog entries etc. in the ppa upload: https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1733537/+listing-archive-extra
<Sweetshark> pitti: I had that bug filed upstream too at debian http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=622644 including debdiff (no changelog changes there, as I did not want to mess with debians policies), but there nobody seems to really care.
<ubot2> Debian bug 622644 in make "parallel (-j2) make with $(eval) construct segfaults" [Normal,Open]
<Sweetshark> (my hope was it would have been tickled donw back to us by now ;)
<pitti> Sweetshark: hmm, it has
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/make-dfsg/3.81-8.1ubuntu1
<pitti> I'm not sure why the bug wasn't auto-closed
<pitti> Sweetshark: closed it now
 * Sweetshark might not have noticed because of still sticking with natty quite often.
<Sweetshark> I need more tasty dogfooding.
<pitti> heh
<Sweetshark> what that weird (debian) versioning (8.1) there, btw?
<pitti> Sweetshark: -8.1 is an NMU in Debian, a Non-Maintainer Uload
<pitti> Upload
<pitti> it's not weird
<davmor2> kenvandine: gwibber on natty seems to of stopped syncing twitter since I signed up to twitter on oneiric last night :(  Anything massively changed?
<Sweetshark> pitti: weird in the "havent seen that before" sense ;)
<kenvandine> davmor2, not in natty...
<kenvandine> davmor2, in a terminal, killall -9 gwibber-service && gwibber-service -d
<kenvandine> let it sync, then post the log for me
<kenvandine> ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
<rodrigo_> ok, g-s-d 3.1.2 seems to work ok, so pushed to the ubuntu-desktop branch, if someone wants to test it
<seb128> rodrigo_, does it conflicts with gpm?
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, gpm code is still in patch review, not yet in gsd code
<rodrigo_> but it needs to conflict with gcm, checking now with hughsie
<seb128> ok
<seb128> is gcm going to stay around?
<seb128> does it have extra feature or is that merged in gcc?
<rodrigo_> all should be merged, checking
<seb128> rodrigo_, seems fine from a review, I didn't try it
<seb128> rodrigo_, but let's do the 3.1 landings next week as a team goal for the rally
<rodrigo_> seb128, running it for a few days myself before uploading
<rodrigo_> so yes, won't upload it for now
<cyphermox> kenvandine: evo all done,
<cyphermox> I had issues pushing last night though :/
<kenvandine> cyphermox, cool... point me to it and i'll take a look
<kenvandine> i installed eds last night, which of course removed evo :)
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> you need gtkhtml 4.1.2 as well
<cyphermox> evo: bzr branch lp:~mathieu-tl/evolution/3.1.2-0ubuntu1
<cyphermox> gtkhtml: lp:~mathieu-tl/gtkhtml/4.1.2-0ubuntu1
<kenvandine> cyphermox, ok, thx
<seb128> time for a break and some errands, I'm away for ~2 hours, will read backlog when I'm back
<seb128> see you later
<kenvandine> later seb128
<cyphermox> cya, seb128
<seb128> or see you on sunday for those who called it a week before I'm back ;-)
<rodrigo_> bye seb128
<didrocks> see you seb128
<dobey> doh
<dobey> hrmm
<pitti> bryceh: is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-rootless-x something that you actually want to pursue for oneiric,  or should we just move it to the Q cycle (post-LTS)?
<dobey> is there an equivalent to foo.gconf-defaults files for gsettings in packages in oneiric?
<pitti> dobey: yes, e. g. /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/foopkg.gschema.override
<dobey> pitti: so we install one of those files? cool
<pitti> dobey: we have some, yes
<dobey> great, thanks
<Shred00> any ideas on how i can get a stack trace (i.e. from gdb) of a crash in a gnome-panel applet, like the clock?
<Shred00> the complication of course being that it's started by the panel and crashes immediately, so no time to attach a gdb to it.
<dobey> Shred00: does it keep crashing when you re-add it?
<Shred00> yup
<pitti> Shred00: enable apport for one time, let it catch the crash, and then use apport-retrace -g /var/crash/gnome-panel.crash ?
<dobey> Shred00: when it crashes the first time, run it inside gdb, then re-add it while it's running in gdb
<Shred00> well, i don't need to "re-add" it.  i get an error dialog asking if i want to "reload" it
<pitti> sudo service apport start force_start=1
<pitti> or what dobey says
<pitti> for live debugging
<dobey> Shred00: right, while that dialog is up, start up gdb with it, and when it's started running in gdb, hit "reload"
<rodrigo_> where's the hotel address for the dublin rally?
<pitti> rodrigo_: https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Rally/Oneiric
<dobey> i am both sad and glad i am not going to dublin :)
<rodrigo_> pitti, thanks!
<Shred00> dobey: i must not be understanding:
<Shred00> $ gdb /usr/lib/gnome-panel/clock-applet
<Shred00> ...
<Shred00> (gdb)
<Shred00> then i hit Reload in the dialog and the dialog disappears briefly as it starts a new one which immediately dies.
<dobey> Shred00: you need to run the applet inside gdb
<dobey> Shred00: not simply load it, it must be running
<rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, that page is empty
<Shred00> ahhhh. got it.
<dobey> Shred00: iow, type "run" and press RET :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: sorry, recent mass-renaming; https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Rally/Oneiric
<Shred00> damn.  pacrunner_webkit again
<Shred00> i thought this got fixed in maveric
<dobey> wtf is the clock applet using webkit for?!
<Shred00> loading weather info
<dobey> let me rephrase
<dobey> wtf is the clock applet using webkit for?!
<dobey> :)
<Shred00> the clock loads weather info from the web.  but to do so, it might need to use a proxy and to resolve the proxy configuration it might need to process a proxy "pac" specification, which is javascript, so the webkit JS engine is invoked.
<dobey> hrmm, i guess it's probably not actually using it, but soup is using libproxy which has a backend that uses the js engine
<Shred00> dobey: you got it
<Shred00> this problem existed in maverick also, but was fixed, iirc.  it seems to have leaked back into natty.
<Shred00> or maybe i just fixed it here myself.
<dobey> which is not webkit, but still; https://twitter.com/#!/dohbee/status/81015987595513857
<Shred00> because proxies provide filtering and redirection (and content substitution) abilities that simply changing an IP address cannot.
<Shred00> and the ability to authenticate
<dobey> a proper network setup doesn't need proxies to do that.
<dobey> anyway
<dobey> pitti: hrmm, it's been a long time since i've had to install a file from debian/ to the system. and with multiple binary packages. do i put the "debian/foo /usr/share/foo/" bit inside foo.install, or in a generic "install" file, and just include it with /usr/share/foo/foo in the foo.install?
<Shred00> dobey: proxies also cache content for reduced bandwidth usage and lower latency for the user.
<dobey> you can have a cache without an actual proxy thing without the annoyingly crap "proxy" part
<dobey> err, that sentence was horrible
<dobey> you can have a cache without the actual annoyingly crap "proxy" part
<dobey> that's better :)
<Shred00> dobey: are you referring to a transparent proxy?
<dobey> i'm referring to properly configuring a network so that users don't have to configure anything on their computers in every other application, to use the internet
<Shred00> dobey: i'm all ears (or eyes if you have something to point to, or fingers if you have something for me to google for)
<pitti> dobey: debia/nfoo /usr/share/foo/ in foo.install is fine
<pitti> dobey: I strongly recommend not to use debian/install; it'll fall on your feet if someone adds a second binary package, or changes the order in debian/control
<dobey> Shred00: you're using a proxy on your *personal* network?
<dobey> pitti: ok, yeah. we have like 8 binary packages already :)
<kenvandine> cyphermox, looking at gtkhtml
<Shred00> dobey: our home network, yes, but could just as easily be a corporate network.
<kenvandine> they didn't bump the api version, so it still builds a 4.0 .so
<dobey> Shred00: well, there's a difference between "i mad a conscious choice to do this" and "the IT dept. at my job requires me to do this"
<kenvandine> i am thinking your shlibs change should be libgtkhtml (>= 4.0)
<kenvandine> they must not have removed any symbols, so we shouldn't break deps for things that might dep on it
<Shred00> dobey: sure.  i am the IT dept.  but you say there are better alternatives than a proxy server to provide (a) caching, (b) authentication and (c) content restriction, so i am asking what is it/are they?
<cyphermox> kenvandine: ok
<kenvandine> dobey, going to have the u1/sso fix uploaded soon?
<dobey> kenvandine: yes, lots of fixes coming today
<kenvandine> dobey, good... i am getting harassed constantly about u1 being busted :/
<pitti> kenvandine: do you know why indicator-*-gtk2 is on the CD images still?
<kenvandine> and i kind of want to let my laptop sync before i travel
<dobey> kenvandine: me too :)
<kenvandine> pitti, yes... because we still need them
<pitti> oh, indicator-session recommends: i-s-gtk2
<pitti> why's that?
<kenvandine> it is kind of a hack
<dobey> kenvandine: nightlies will get you synced
<kenvandine> until unity can load the gtk3 indicators
<pitti> kenvandine: oh, I thought unity would be gtk3
<kenvandine> not yet
<kenvandine> almost :)
<kenvandine> that is a goal for the rally
<pitti> kenvandine: oh, it depends on both 2 and 3
<dobey> kenvandine: and you should be running nightlies of u1 :)
<didrocks> pitti: some part are
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, so the recommends will drop once unity is fully ported over?
<kenvandine> pitti, yes
<pitti> ah, great; thanks for the heads-up!
<kenvandine> np :)
<didrocks> pitti: njpatel didn't want to push unity panel in gtk3 until all indicators were ready
<didrocks> pitti: which wasn't the case for last release
<kenvandine> it was better than changing the recommends in unity everytime i uploaded a ported indicatore
<pitti> yeah, understood
<kenvandine> i think indicator-sound is the only one left
<pitti> kenvandine: si signore!
<kenvandine> which ronoc just got merged
<kenvandine> we'll upload that on monday
<dobey> Shred00: i haven't gone about setting up such a configuration yet, so i don't have exct details. i have lots of bandwidth, so don't really need to. though once i set up vpn i may set up some stuff
<Shred00> dobey: i don't mean to be a dick, but you are hardly speaking from a point of experience in telling me to set up my network "properly".
<didrocks> mpt: having fun with math? :)
<mpt> didrocks, my brain is melting
<didrocks> mpt: heh, congrats on your research on that part btw. It's nice to see a "sort by relevancy" dump and that you really explored the problem ;)
<mpt> At least when we get to the "Recommended for you" algorithm, I know I will be *completely* out of my league and won't be tempted to figure it out myself
<didrocks> I'm quite scared about this algorithm TBH, a lot of research will be needed :)
<didrocks> let's try to put that as much as possible server side for easier update and refinement
<mpt> Oh, yes, recommendations will definitely be server-side
<mpt> If only because the amount of data representing everything that everyone (who has opted in) has installed will be both (a) semi-confidential and (b) large :-)
<didrocks> right, and (b) will force a lot of caching :)
<pitti> kenvandine: shall I move the entire https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-geoclue to the p or q cycle then, and reopen the WIs?
<pitti> kenvandine: or is that really meant to mean "DROP"?
<kenvandine> i think drop
<kenvandine> i think, at least for now, we have done all we are doing
<pitti> ok
<pitti> [magicfab] community participation to improve osm mapping:
<pitti> is that still useful then?
<kenvandine> pitti, that was more of a way to help people improve osm
<kenvandine> not sure it is really relevant to the desktop
<pitti> good night everyone! see you on Sunday evening!
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<kenvandine> see you soon :)
<didrocks> see you on Sunday pitti!
<amorphous> Hello. I have a potential bug and I would like to confirm that it should be filed against nautilus. It's miscalculating that /home is full because there are 2 samba shares mounted in /home through fstab
<amorphous> the /home partition is ~ 600GB and the 2 shares are totaling ~ 2TB. I get the messahe that the /home is full
<amorphous> if I unmount the drives then there's no message
<amorphous> I'm not sure against what I should file the bug: nautilus - linux - samba ?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, evo and friends all uploaded
<bryceh> pitti, I do not have plans around it; RAOF might.  Move it to Q
<rodrigo_> eod'ing, so see you all in Dublin on Monday (there were no flights on Sunday so arriving there monday morning)
<mterry> amorphous, I'd go with nautilus
<mterry> (it can always be moved)
<cyphermox> kenvandine: thanks
<amorphous> mterry, also...I've forgot to mention: df says /home is 100% when the shares are mounted. So I guess nautilus reports what the kernel says. I'll file the bug against linux
<mterry> amorphous, k
<amorphous> mterry, also when the drives are not mounted, df shows the reals %.
<kenvandine> mterry, i just filed bug 801658
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 801658 in duplicity "missing depends for ubuntuone-couch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801658
<kenvandine> easy fix :)
<mterry> kenvandine, that's not quite a depends on duplicity; better on deja-dup.  But I thought it had a Recommends for it!
<mterry> kenvandine, yeah, it does
<kenvandine> ah,ok
<kenvandine> weird
<kenvandine> i just got dejadup installed today in a dist-upgrade
<kenvandine> but no ubuntuone-couch
<mterry> kenvandine, and it didn't pull in ubuntuone-couch?  hmm.. maybe recommends are not pulled in for a dist-upgrade?  That sounds familiar
<kenvandine> maybe... that does sound familiar :/
<kenvandine> mterry, just confirmed in a VM... dist-upgrade brought in deja-dup without ubuntuone-couch
<kenvandine> bummer
<mterry> kenvandine, but a direct apt-get install does bring it in?
<kenvandine> it would
<mterry> weird
 * kenvandine didn't test that :)(
<mterry> I assume that's intentional behavior...
<kenvandine> yeah, confirmed
<kenvandine> a pane though... i guess you shouldn't display U1 as a target if the deps aren't there
 * kenvandine goes to get some lunch, bbiab
<didrocks> dist-upgrade should, but it's a known issue it doesn't everytime
<didrocks> use --fix-policy regularly :)
<mterry> kenvandine, we test whether 'ubuntuone' is importable, but not each piece of the ubuntuone puzzle.  probably should
<mterry> chrisccoulson, firefox and thunderbird are crashy for me right now.  slow down my machine, then crash
<chrisccoulson> mterry, it seems to be ok here, and i don't think anything has changed recently :/
<seb128> kenvandine, if you have a box showing the "don't install recommends" please keep it this way
<chrisccoulson> got a trace?
<seb128> kenvandine, so we can get mvo to debug it next week
<mterry> chrisccoulson, hrm, not just those two apps now.  I'm apt to blame compiz or unity
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> seb128, so, i'm getting somewhere the indicator issue
<seb128> with?
<seb128> mterry, turn a11y off :p
<mterry> :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, bug 799878 (and the empty messaging indicator) - the indicator is dropping all of the incoming ItemsPropertiesUpdated signals because they have the wrong signature :/
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 799878 in dbusmenu/0.5 "Test suite 'glib-test-proxy' failes on GLib 2.29" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799878
<chrisccoulson> but i'm not sure what changed there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, check with dest or davidz on #gnome-hackers maybe?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, or wait next week to check with him at the rally
<chrisccoulson> seb128, is desrt going to be there?
<seb128> I think so
<chrisccoulson> cool, i can wait until next week :)
<chrisccoulson> m_conley ^^ ;)
<didrocks> he will be there, right
<didrocks> hum, evolution is crashy there as well now
<didrocks> and qt creator!
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey - nice job narrowing that down! :)
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, i still need to figure out exactly what is going on though ;)
<evmar> just as a heads-up, we (chrome) are removing global bookmarks support
<evmar> http://codereview.chromium.org/7252001/
<evmar> i'll file appropriate bugs
<evmar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dbusmenu/+bug/801699
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 801699 in dbusmenu "DBus menu is very slow when using large menu" [Undecided,New]
<chrisccoulson> evmar, thanks. how big do the bookmarks menus need to be btw? i didn't hit any issues like this with firefox
<chrisccoulson> but then, my bookmarks menu isn't really that big
<chrisccoulson> oh, welcome tedg \o/
<chrisccoulson> did you see bug 801699?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 801699 in dbusmenu "DBus menu is very slow when using large menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801699
<evmar> chrisccoulson: perhaps we're hitting some pathological behavior in the api?  i see g_list_foreach calls in the call stack, maybe some algo is unintentionally O(n^2)
<tedg> chrisccoulson, No, I didn't.  Interesting.
<evmar> chrisccoulson: do you have any pointer to how firefox integration works?  (was it implemented by you or by ffox upstream?)
<tedg> It is odd.  As it should be only one foreach per level in the hierarchy.
<tedg> evmar, Does the chrome bookmark menu have something like tag menus or something?
<evmar> i don't think so
<tedg> Hmm.
<tedg> evmar, If you have the large menu running on a process could you run /usr/lib/libdbusmenu/dbusmenu-dumper on it and attach the JSON to the bug?
<tedg> evmar, I can then put it as part of the dbusmenu test suite.
<chrisccoulson> evmar, the firefox integration doesn't use GtkMenu (and thus bypasses appmenu-gtk and the GtkMenu parser), although i don't think that would make any difference here
<chrisccoulson> evmar, it's sending favicons isn't it?
<tedg> chrisccoulson, It wouldn't get the icons on the first pass, and that looks like where it's passing the structure.
<dobey> mterry, kenvandine: can i get some sponsorship love for ubuntu-sso-client? :) https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/oneiric/ubuntu-sso-client/release-1-3-1/+merge/65827
<evmar> chrisccoulson: yeah, favicons
<evmar> chrisccoulson: back of the envelope calculation says we can be sending 100kb+ over dbus, not sure if that works
<mterry> dobey, I'll look at it
<tedg> evmar, We ask for the structure with labels in one pass, and then ask for the icons in groups of 100 to limit the impact.
<tedg> evmar, So it shouldn't be 100kb at once.
<chrisccoulson> evmar, tbh i'm not too sure what the physical limits of dbus are. i had a problem with icon data in thunderbird before though (although admittedly, it was because of an extension sending a 512x400 icon in a menu. but that resulted in thunderbird just being aborted after a couple of minutes of sending so much data that everything just gave up - bug 749440)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 749440 in globalmenu-extension "Incompatibility with Thunderbird addon CuteButtons - Crystal SVG : makes TB crash when reply a mail" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749440
<tedg> chrisccoulson, The limits are set in /etc/dbus-1/session.conf
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Though, they say it should be 1G, so it seems unlikely you hit those.
<chrisccoulson> tedg, i guess i mean "limits at where things begin to suck", rather than actual physical limits
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Heh, the "suck limits".  We should coin that phrase.
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<tedg> "This is currently operating at 90% suck, so we need to start thinking about optimizing it"
<didrocks> see you on Sunday guys!
<tedg> 'night didrocks
<kenvandine> didrocks, have a good weekend
<kenvandine> see ya' soon :)
<didrocks> tedg: you should try python on plane! :p
<tedg> SNAKES ON A PLANE!
<didrocks> thanks, you too tedg, kenvandine!
<tedg> ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<mterry> dobey, uploaded
<dobey> mterry: great, thanks!
<kenvandine> mterry, dobey awesome... thx!
<kenvandine> i love breaking ubuntu on a friday afternoon :)
 * kenvandine hopes this dbusmenu upload doesn't cause too much havoc
<mterry> kenvandine, if you didn't break things, what would you do during the rally?
<bryceh> kenvandine, esp. a friday before international travel :-)
<kenvandine> drink beer?
<kenvandine> bryceh, exactly :)
<kenvandine> mterry, this upload is tricky too... i breaks apps that use libindicate and libunity via GIR
<cyphermox> speaking of breaking Ubuntu on a friday afternoon before travelling, I need to upload an update to NM :D
<kenvandine> so i added a breaks to make it hold back
<kenvandine> cyphermox, ugh ;)
<kenvandine> none of us will be able to connect to wifi when traveling :)
<cyphermox> pfft, you should know how to use wpasupplicant by itself ;)
 * kenvandine hides
 * cyphermox says that because he still struggles with that black magic... though less than before
<ajvdvegt> Hi all!
<kenvandine> although i remember when dbusmenu made nm-applet toggle my interfaces over and over again
<cyphermox> kenvandine: right, that was fun
<kenvandine> i was not happy about that... while tedg was on some beach in hawaii
<ajvdvegt> Is this the right place to inform about gdm 3 issues?
<dobey> heh
<dobey> ajvdvegt: bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm probably is the "right place" :)
<cyphermox> ajvdvegt: depends, what kind of issue? also, bugs are great to inform developers of issues ;)
<ajvdvegt> :)
<ajvdvegt> consistent segfaults count as an issue, I suppose.
<cyphermox> yup, the best kind
<ajvdvegt> But as GDM suddenly stopped working for me, I suppse I'm not the only one seeing this.
<cyphermox> kenvandine: speaking of nm-applet, do you see it in unity ?
<ajvdvegt> I'll go file a bug report, tnx.
<cyphermox> ajvdvegt: thanks, that will be useful especially if it comes from apport (e.g. with a backtrace and everything)
<kenvandine> cyphermox, i do
<cyphermox> kenvandine: hrm... so why am I missing it, the power button indicator thing, and the messaging menu?
<cyphermox> is this related to the dbusmenu upload you're doing?
<kenvandine> cyphermox, can't be...
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> do you have indicator-application-gtk2 installed?
<kenvandine> and indicator-session-gtk2?
<kenvandine> etc
<cyphermox> ah, no. uninstalled, apparently.
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> i wonder if this is another case of recommends being ignored on a dist-upgrade?
<cyphermox> maybe. is that recommended in ubuntu-desktop?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> indicator-session recommends indicator-session-gtk2
<cyphermox> ok
<kenvandine> just until unity panel can load gtk3 indicators
<kenvandine> but other people noticed them getting installed
<dobey> i saw a lot of stuff get uninstalled
<ajvdvegt> ok, I activated apport. I'm off crashing gdm now, thanks!
<kenvandine> ajvdvegt, have fun :)
<dobey> probably related to gnome-panel/libpanelapplet getting removed?
<chrisccoulson> oh, dbusmenu broke ABI?
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Yeah, we dropped an object no one was using.
<tedg> chrisccoulson, Think of it less as "broke" and more as "refined"
<dobey> s/no one/no one we care about/ :)
<tedg> dobey, I'd be impressed if someone was using it.  It didn't really do anything... I guess not as much impressed as confused :-)
<dobey> AND ubuntuone-client 1.7.0 uploaded to ubuntu
<dobey> i hope the switch to dh_python2 didn't blow stuff up :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-25
<lucidfox> So, Liferea has integrated the libindicate patch into the unstable release 1.7.6
<lucidfox> I'll offer the libunity one next
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-26
<desrt> anyone in dublin yet?
<pedro_> desrt, hello i'm around , about to going downstairs for breakfast, where are you?
<desrt> paris
<desrt> i've got a rather late flight
<desrt> i wonder if you could do me a favour?
<pedro_> sure
<desrt> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Rally/Oneiric
<desrt> this page mentions "if you want to check who is on the same flight as you..."
<desrt> and links to a page that needs a canonical.com email address...
<pedro_> desrt, checking
<desrt> i'm on aer lingus EI0529 leaving paris at 21:35, arriving at 22:15
<desrt> agateau: ping :)
<lool> Looks like gnome-video-effects needs a MIR to allow cheese to build in main
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-18
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Have you checked out the system-compositor-scratchpad yet? Is it enough to unblock you?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, not yet, but planning to this afternoon
<RAOF> Cool
<pitti> Good morning
<robert_ancell> RAOF, how close are we to X 1.12 in quantal?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Pretty close; it's all staged in a PPA, and could be uploaded to quantal-proposed pretty much any time, I think.
<RAOF> The compositor also wants mesa 8.1, though, which requires a bit more work.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so it's ok that using that PPA removes all the other video drivers right?
<RAOF> I don't think it should; it didn't here.
<RAOF> Did you add ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-staging as well? The email (should have) said that's also required.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1046714/
<robert_ancell> ah, that might be it
<RAOF> Hah. And I suddenly notice that I need to bump the version on xserver-xorg-video-intel, so that it actually gets installed ;)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, oh, who do you have to kick in nouveau to make some releases?  so there is a version right, but no release files?
<RAOF> I guess we could prod darktama. There's not even a version, really.
<RAOF> I *have* prodded a bit, but nothing's come out of it.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so where did the 0.0.16 come from?
<RAOF> Kernel ABI.
<robert_ancell> oh
<RAOF> Also, thin air.
<RAOF> I mean, their configure.ac *does* define the version as 0.0.16, but it has done for a year or so, and it's never been lower than 0.0.15 IIRC.
<robert_ancell> It's amazing running through the versions page how many upstreams a completely lacking in any information where they make releases, or have release files, or even appear to exist
<RAOF> Heh
<robert_ancell> try finding python pam
<glatzor> morning pitti
<glatzor> how are you?
<pitti> hey glatzor
<pitti> glatzor: I'm great, thanks! just a bit tired
<glatzor> did you enjoy your sunny weekend?
<pitti> absolutely, yes; we had some friends over
<glatzor> pitti, do you know anything about the porting status of pyxdg?
<pitti> they are still here, in fact, leaving in an hour
<glatzor> pitti, Oh, then see you later :)
<pitti> glatzor: I don't; I just removed it from apport, and use the ini parser now
<pitti> we did a bike tour, went swimming, and watched the game in a Biergarten last night
<pitti> veery relaxing :)
<glatzor> pitti, which one? the standard one of python?
<pitti> glatzor: how are you? having some free time now?
<pitti> glatzor: yes, configparser
<glatzor> pitti, it is get less and less :) although I am currenlty on my small sabatical - I will leave for a longer trip on Saturday. So much to prepare :)
<glatzor> pitti, and does it handle encoding issues well?
<pitti> glatzor: I'm not quite sure, but I would expect it to work just like any other python -- it certainly has an encoding argument somewhere?
 * pitti -> breakfast, bbl
<BigWhale> Good Morning
<didrocks> hey hey
<seb128> hey
<seb128> didrocks, lut, how is London?
<didrocks> seb128: rainy, as expected :)
<Laney> morning
<Sweetshark> bonjours a tous!
<Laney> ah, london!
<Laney> the packaging masterclass?
<Sweetshark> jibel: got my key to the qa-lab. now what do I do with it? ;)
<ritz> seb128 , pingus , any suggestion wrt https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/956855 ?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 956855 in gtk+3.0 "GtkFileChooserButton dialog stretched, when user has a really long name saved to bookmark " [Low,Triaged]
<glatzor> morning mvo
<seb128> Laney, Sweetshark, glatzor: hey
<glatzor> mvo, have you looked at porting axi and especially pyxdg to python3?
<glatzor> morning seb128 ! how are you?
<glatzor> seb128, you enjoyed your weekend?
<ritz> seb128, customer would like this fix to be implemented asap, looking for suggestions for the best options to do so.
<seb128> ritz, hey, I'm looking to it, I would like to get upstream review, the code you drop was probably added for a reason
<seb128> glatzor, I'm good thanks, my w.e was nice ... how was yours?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<ritz> hmmm
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good, thanks! How are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, had a good w.e?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. the weekend was ok - we went to west midlands safari park yesterday
<seb128> safari park in the u.k? aren't those working on incompatible weathers, ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<glatzor> seb128, mine was great too.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i wish there was a way to make objdump more useful with binaries that have a separate debug file
<seb128> chrisccoulson, back on the g-s-d issue? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you manage to reproduce it or do you still work from guess work and debug infos from mterry?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i can reproduce it from a live CD. it relies on the existence of a touchpad (and having "disable touchpad whilst typing" enabled)
<seb128> oh, "fun" ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, did you read my comments on friday evening?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the one where you were pondering digging in asm on a friday evening? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the ones on the bug report. but the comment about digging in to asm on friday evening was around the same time :)
<seb128> oh, no, that was on twitter
<seb128> I just read the bug ones
<chrisccoulson> i didn't look at it on friday in the end ;)
<seb128> "something in set_disable_w_typing() writes 0x0 to the %ebx register"
<mvo> glatzor: good morning! bary mentioned that he wanted to look at the xapian py3 thing, not sure about pyxdg, isn't there something gi based these days? gmenu iirc?
<seb128> I'm not even sure where to start for sur issues
<seb128> sur->such
<seb128> chrisccoulson, DOH
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think it's the most stupid bug ever
<chrisccoulson> seb128, how come?
<seb128> set_disable_w_typing (GsdMouseManager *manager, gboolean state)
<seb128> ..
<seb128>                 char *args[6];
<seb128>                 args[5] = "-t";
<seb128>                 args[6] = NULL;
<seb128> we have a patch adding an argument
<glatzor> mvo, ok thanks for the hint: there is gio.DesktopAppInfo
<seb128> but we didn't increase *args[n]
<chrisccoulson> hah
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so we write one out
<chrisccoulson> that could be it ;)
<chrisccoulson> i hadn't looked in there yet
<chrisccoulson> although
<seb128> chrisccoulson, cf 10_smaller_syndaemon_timeout.patch
<mvo> glatzor: yeah, that was the one I think
<chrisccoulson> i'm interested in how that results in register corruption :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, well likely the stack part we overwrite with 0x0 was the register value and it's restoring it when returning or something...
<chrisccoulson> seb128, possibly. i'm just doing an unstripped build here so i can disassemble it properly :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, let me know how that goes ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you want to fix that patch,upload to quantal or should I do it?
<glatzor> mvo, how far away is the s-c port?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i can do that in a bit. i just want to understand how it breaks it in the way that it does :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, no hurry, thanks
<chrisccoulson> thanks for spotting that as well :)
<seb128> yw
<mvo> glatzor: xapian is the big blocker
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, the overwrite occurs when set_disable_w_typing() restores the value of %ebx from the stack, just before it returns
<chrisccoulson> that makes a lot of sense now :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, that's what I guessed before ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, and of course stack corruptions are not showed by valgrind...
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a bit of a pain. which is why tracking down the register write was quite helpful :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I wonder what we corrupt on precise :p
<seb128> likely not ebx or it would segfault as well
<chrisccoulson> is this in precise as well?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the buggy patch is
<chrisccoulson> we should probably consider fixing that ;)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I will SRU that today
<seb128> there are some other patches for g-s-d that might be worth SRUing
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> oh, pitti is piloting today
<seb128> cool, I might let him some of sponsoring queue desktop items then ;-)
<pitti> haven't started yet, but yes, I will
<seb128> pitti, hey, how are you? had a good w.e?
<pitti> seb128: indeed I had, thanks! we had some friends over again, and a very relaxing two days
<seb128> pitti, how was the game yesterday? They broadcasted Netherlands and not Germany here yesterday
<pitti> a bike tour, swimming, barbeccue, and of course watching the game last night
<seb128> bike, swim, bbq ... I guess you have nice weather as well ;-)
<pitti> seb128: https://plus.google.com/107564545827215425270/posts/gwBK6guSV8b
<pitti> seb128: yeah, it's marvellous
<pitti> seb128: both the German and the Danish team played pretty similar indeed, it was a very tense game towards the end
<seb128> hehe, nice german flags paintings ;-)
<pitti> we were in a Biergarten
<seb128> pitti, == beers bar? I like the size of the glasses :p
<pitti> seb128: will you watch tomorrow, against Sweden?
<pitti> seb128: "beer garden", yes; it's like an open air pub
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I will watch the game tomorrow for sure ;-)
<seb128> pitti, let's see, we might have Germany - France in 1/2 final
<seb128> though our 1/4 will be an hard one
<seb128> you guys got quite lucky, playing Greece in 1/4 ;-)
<seb128> mvo, hey
<seb128> mvo, is there any chance you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/update-manager/update-at-start/+merge/108369 this week? it's up for review for almost 3 weeks ;-)
 * Laney is glad glib has a test suite but it really does take a while to run
<seb128> yeah, glib is a pain to build, between the several builds for refdbg, etc and the testsuit it's taking ages
<chrisccoulson> right, i think it's time for some coffee now
<mvo> seb128: *cough* yes - but anyone from your team could also do the review
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, that patch was originally from rodrigo. i'm surprised at that ;)
<seb128> mvo, I'm fine doing code reviews but that's sort of a behaviour change and would appreciate if you could look at it as well
<seb128> mvo, danke
<seb128> chrisccoulson, why is that surprising?
<chrisccoulson> i thought rodrigo would have spotted something like that too :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, are you aware of http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/sg-manual.html btw?
<chrisccoulson> seems that might be useful here ;)
<glatzor> mvo: is the information in axi and app-install-data enough to map every application that is shown in s-c?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, the bug is not rodrigo's
<seb128> chrisccoulson, he just changed the delay's value
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we landed the "add -t" before precise, it's my fault :p
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw did you upload yet?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's uploaded now
<seb128> ok, I will do the SRU then, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for the valgrind doc, I didn't know about it
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm going to try running it in sgcheck now to see if it finds the problem too
<pitti> glatzor: I talked to David Zeuthen (polkit/udisks upstream) last week about testing daemons which use polkit
<pitti> glatzor: would you mind if I took aptdaemon's fake-polkit, generalize that a bit, and we get it into upstream polkit? then it would be much easier for other projects to use it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw stupid question maybe, but is the args[] array stored on the stack in this code?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, the array and all of the values are too
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, sgcheck crashes!
<chrisccoulson> that's probably why it's still experimental
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is that normal to use the stack for that? I though it would just alloc memory somewhere and point to that
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's ok to use like that
<chrisccoulson> sometimes it's better, as you don't have to worry about freeing the memory afterwards, and you can reduce heap fragmentation as well
<seb128> I guess it depends how much data you have to store...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well in any case that was a fun bug :p
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for helping debugging it, I don't think I would ever have found the issue if you didn't trace to the function to look at ;-)
<chrisccoulson> it was certainly quite fun to track down :)
<mvo> seb128: sure and sorry for not getting to it for so long, lots to do, but as long as the code is reviewed I'm fine and don't want to be a single-point-of-failure
<mvo> glatzor: you don't need axi for this, just the data from /var/cache/software-center/xapian and from the software-cneter-agent db in home, so ideally you just use the s-c StoreDatabase class
<seb128> mvo, yeah, sorry for adding to your busy todolist, we will try to review "normal" changes (i.e the ones which don't involve changing the behaviour) reviewed without bothering you ;-)
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I put it on my list for today
<mvo> glatzor: mpt just told me about plans for the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Determining_software_item_information inside aptdaemon?
<mvo> glatzor: we should talk about this on the phone a bit, I would like to use something like libdee for this
<glatzor> mvo, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/smart-error/view/head:/aptdaemon/app.py
 * glatzor takes a look at libdee
<glatzor> pitti, of course - it is free software :)
<zyga> hey, has anyone from non us noticed a regression where any alt+keystroke that used to provide accented characters just stopped working recently?
<cyphermox> good morning!
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
<cyphermox> hey. not bad.
<cyphermox> setting up a new computer for dev work; I wish ubuntu one would work properly on quantal
<cyphermox> here it totally refuses to do any syncing
<seb128> cyphermox, :-(
<cyphermox> seb128: seems it's an SSL issue
<seb128> mterry_, mterry: hey, enjoy having a theme back ;-)
<mterry_> seb128, :)
<mterry_> seb128, chrisccoulson: thanks for fixing that!
<seb128> mterry_, kudos to chrisccoulson for tracking it down ;-) it was a very stupid bug at the end, write one element over an array
<seb128> mterry_, which happened to write a NULL over the ebx stored value :p
<dobey> was there a new gtk+ uploaded to quantal in the past ~72 hours?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> dobey, yes, 3.5
<mterry_> seb128, :-/
<dobey> hrmm
<seb128> dobey, why?
<BigWhale> seb128, I have a problem now. Apparently keybinder-3 didn't make it into Wheezy and DktrKranz is now on vacation and when he's back it will be too late for that to happen. Is there a way to get it into Quantal anyway?
<seb128> BigWhale, same as any other package, get a sponsor to review and upload for you?
<BigWhale> seb128, ok, thanks.
<BigWhale> :)
<seb128> yw!
<dobey> seb128: it appears to have broken some tsts in ubuntu-sso-client :-/
<seb128> dobey, :-(
<dobey> this is weird
<seb128> nooo, not two mterry, one is enough!
<mterry> seb128, pay no attention to the mterry_two behind the curtain
<seb128> no way I'm falling into that one, I will watch for both of you :p
<mterry> :)
<mterry_two> seb128, ooh, I can test that layout update, I believe.  I didn't notice the fix coming through
<seb128> mterry_two, what layout update?
<mterry_two> seb128, the fr layout bug
<seb128> mterry_two, got a fix? where?
<mterry_two> seb128, oh!  that's the screensaver bug
<mterry_two> seb128, bummer.  I saw your comment and saw the bug title and got confused
<mterry_two> :-/  needs more coffee
<seb128> mterry_two, oh, that one, yeah we got it fixed, I still hope to get the fr one looked at soon, I've nagged daniels again on friday about it :p
<seb128> mterry_two, it bothered me enough that I tried on a f17 liveCD and they got the issue as well, so it seems to be an xserver upstream issue
<mterry_two> yeah I saw that, good on ya!  :)
<dobey> seb128: looks like new gtk+ breaks gtk_widget_override_color() calls on GtkLabel widgets :(
<seb128> dobey, I guess try to ping cosimoc or Company about it to know if that's a known issue?
<dobey> yeah, though i suspect i will be told "it's a bug fix, not api breakage" despite the fact that api being used is now broken; at least, that's what happened the last time such a break happened for api i was using :-/
<mvo> dobey: hey, I noticed lp:~dobey/ubuntu/quantal/python-oauth/python3-packages, what is the state of this one? anything I could help with ?
<dobey> mvo: it breaks ubuntu-sso-client tests. so there's something not quite right in it. i need to check barry's branch to see what he changed/did different still
<dobey> been too swamped with higher priority stuff though
<mvo> dobey: aha, thanks. to test, can I just branch lp:ubuntu-sso-client and run the tests with py3? or is that in a different branch?
<dobey> mvo: you can't run ubuntu-sso-client tests with python3 at all, no
<dobey> it's not ported yet
<mvo> oh, ok
<mvo> dobey: I did a 2to3 version some time ago but that was just a toy
<mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1047512/
<dobey> mvo: i'll try to see if i can't poke at it again later today. but right now gtk+ is busy annoying the crap out of me :(
<mvo> ::(
<danawar2> Test
<Laney> tseliot: Hey, did you mean to remove 4 from PATCH_MATCH[4] here? It seems to break the build again for me. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/107881778/bcmwl_5.100.82.38%2Bbdcom-0ubuntu7_5.100.82.38%2Bbdcom-0ubuntu8.diff.gz
<tseliot> Laney: how so?
<Laney> same as before, asm/system.h
<tseliot> Laney: with what kernel?
<Laney> tseliot: 3.4.0-5-generic
<Laney> it built when I put 4 back there
<tseliot> Laney: I think I made the package apply the patch only for kernels >= 3.5, my bad..
<Laney> yeah, that's what I'd guess from the diff :-)
<tseliot> Laney: I should always apply that patch, since there's an "#if LINUX_VERSION_CODE < KERNEL_VERSION(3, 4, 0)"
<Laney> nice, that should make it easier
<tseliot> Laney: ok, uploaded
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/175098 does anyone see any issues here?
<Laney> I can't get a desktop any more!
<Laney> guest session, gdm, lightdm all fail and just throw me back to the login manager
<micahg> kenvandine: why did you upload chromium?
<kenvandine> micahg, well it fixed the ftbfs for arm
<kenvandine> but... it fails for other reasons on quantal :/
<kenvandine> built for precise in a ppa for me though
<kenvandine> micahg, did you see my branch i proposed?
<micahg> kenvandine: right, precise has a different toolchain than quantal and quantal has been broke for chromium since it opened which is why I haven't uploaded yet
<micahg> I didn't see the branch eitehr
<kenvandine> this fix will fix it on precise for sure :)
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/chromium-browser/chromium-browser.quantal/+merge/110831
<micahg> kenvandine: ah, now I see it in my mail, thanks
<micahg> kenvandine: but still, it wasn't going to build anyways
<kenvandine> i see that now
<micahg> bug 992212
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 992212 in chromium-browser "chromium-browser FTBFS in quantal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992212
<kenvandine> it'll work on precise though :)
<bkerensa> micahg: have you seen this http://i.imgur.com/bgYKT.png in 12.10 at all? Not sure which package to file this against
<Laney> known
<Laney> kenvandine: does the new light-themes fix that?
<kenvandine> Laney, yes
<Laney> nice
<kenvandine> Laney, a couple of the indicators still has the wrong background
<kenvandine> but not as bad as that
<micahg> kenvandine: and that's wrong on armel for quantal anyways
<bkerensa> Laney: so that is related to light-themes and a fix is coming down the pipe?
<Laney> bkerensa: the tubes should deliver you a fix soon
<Laney> it was caused by the new gtk
<bkerensa> ahh ok
<cyphermox> Laney: to answer your question about lightdm before, I'm not seeing that
<Laney> I only see it on one machine
<Laney> will have to investigate more
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> theme is completely fubar here though; the indicators aren't readable when selected
<Laney> (how cool would it be to be able to bisect apt runs?)
<bkerensa> cyphermox: So over the weekend brought that bluetooth hardware to Bug Jam/BSP and showed it to slangasek he thinks its kernel related and I sent a e-mail with the details to bluetooth-kernel
<cyphermox> bkerensa: cool
<bkerensa> cyphermox: More specifically it would seem no Bluetooth headsets are working with this Intel BT chip
<seb128> re
<seb128> Laney, your lightdm issue, did you check your session .xsession-errors? is it like login in but the user exits directly?
<Laney> seb128: it's completely empty
<Laney> I don't think it gets very far into the session
<seb128> Laney, that started today? what did you upgrade?
<Laney> let me get dpkg.log
<Laney> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1047618/ or http://paste.ubuntu.com/1047621/ is a grep for "status installed"
<Laney> I /think/ I had restarted since the previous dist-upgrade, but I can't be totally sure
<rickspencer3> bryceh, good morning
<seb128> Laney, libc, gtk, gnome-session are in this update...
<seb128> Laney, can you start a session using startx?
<bryceh> rickspencer3, heya
<Laney> seb128: no, "user not authorized to run the X server, aborting"
<Laney> but my working machine also gives that
<rickspencer3> bryceh, so, no alpha/beta spins, we test every 2 weeks, and save those tested images?
<bryceh> rickspencer3, it sounds like a good plan to me, I like it
<seb128> Laney, do you have an X running already? startx -- :1 should work
<Laney> I understand that ISO testing is pretty heavy
<seb128> Laney, that works here at least for me
<Laney> so we should check if the people who would be doing it are up for that work
<rickspencer3> hi Laney
<Laney> hey!
<rickspencer3> well, it's not so heavy, but yeah, we need Nick to gear up for such a plan
<bryceh> rickspencer3, now, there's been some marketing value of having named images to encourage people to kick tires, that would be lost.  But there's dozens of ways to skin that cat.
<rickspencer3> he has people "adopt an ISO" now
<Laney> I guess it depends on what would be tested
<rickspencer3> Laney, you can look at the ISO tracker, hold on
<Laney> rickspencer3: I know about the ISO test cases â I'm just querying if people would be up for doing it every fortnight
<bryceh> rickspencer3, and honestly like someone else already said, it may be that the "alpha" moniker actually scares people off at the exact time we could use their feedback the most (early on in the release, when we have plenty of time to fix bugs)
<rickspencer3> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/219/builds/17441/testcases
<Laney> I think it would be good to have input from some of the people running these things on the ground
<bryceh> Laney, a few releases ago we did do something like that just for the proprietary video drivers, except it was every week
<rickspencer3> I think this is a good opportunity to grow contributors, actually
<bryceh> Laney, not a lot of people had the stamina to do that, but those who did got very passionate about it, and did it quite reliably
<rickspencer3> I bet a lot of people would like to be able to contribute, and running these test cases doesn't have a very high technical bar, but has a powerful impact
<rickspencer3> in any case, the increased cadence of testing is sort of orthagonal
 * bryceh nods
<rickspencer3> we could do that with or without changing the way we do alphas
<rickspencer3> and we visa-versa
<seb128> Laney, did you try the startx -- :1?
<Laney> seb128: yes, same outcome
<Laney> I'm going to timeout in a second so I'll pick it up again tomorrow if you don't mind?
<seb128> Laney, hum, I wonder if that's your issue for lightdm as well...
<Laney> yeah, could be
<rickspencer3> bye Laney!
<seb128> Laney, yeah, sure, no hurry, it's only you who seem to have the issue so far so it's not a "we need to sort it you immediatly"
<Laney> I found some references to /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config on google, and it references a group which doesn't exist
<Laney> "console"
<Laney> but I don't know if that is relevant at all
<Laney> rickspencer3: do you think any of the cadence issues you raise would be mitigated by folks always being able to upload their stuff to proposed?
<rickspencer3> Laney, well, that's kind of how it alls tarted
<Laney> I mean, we don't currently have that, but that is the goal
<rickspencer3> the first question being ... if we are automatically copying from proposed, we can forgo freezing
<rickspencer3> well, we do have proposed enabled now, and we should have all the tools for auto-copying etc... by end of June
<rickspencer3> so, now was a good time to ask about ceasing to freeze
<Laney> I think the release team's plan is to turn off the migration in "freeze" periods
<Laney> so that people can test without shifting sands
<Laney> but people will always be able to upload
<rickspencer3> Laney, well, then people would have to run proposed, which is contrary to the goal of proposed
<Laney> correct, people won't get updates during the freeze period
<rickspencer3> then we would have different developers running out of different archives, and people running -proposed would suffer from the very effects that turning on proposed was meant to mitigate
<rickspencer3> and furthermore, we shouldn't need to freeze
<rickspencer3> however, in any case, it seems the question is moot
<rickspencer3> because it begged the question, "why have alphas and betas at all, if we have daily quality"
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> if it's to invite deep testing, well we don't need to spin alphas and betas to test, we can run the ISO tracker on any daily build
<rickspencer3> and we should set a testing cadence based on what would drive quality, not how often we can release alphas and betas, etc...
 * bryceh nods
<rickspencer3> </summarizing @u-devel>
<rickspencer3> :)
 * rickspencer3 is excited about potential increase in quality and velocity
<bryceh> rickspencer3, I haven't heard any arguments to the contrary so far; have you heard anyone with strong arguments to keep the alpha/beta approach?
 * micahg needs to respond to that thread
<rickspencer3> bryceh, nope
<bryceh> rickspencer3, also have any of the archive folks chimed in?  I'd be interested in seeing their thoughts.
<Laney> so they currently create a kind of point of convergance
<rickspencer3> "archive folks"?
<Laney> you know that no major changes are going to happen, and that things should kind of "come together" for a time
<rickspencer3> Laney, yeah, but we shouldn't do that anymore
<rickspencer3> now we make sure things stay together each day, right?
<rickspencer3> at least I hope so!
<bryceh> rickspencer3, archive admins like cjwatson, slangasek, et al
<rickspencer3> bryceh, I know slangasek's views
<Laney> yes, but there are still structural changes that take place
<rickspencer3> I chatted with cjwatson at UDS
<bryceh> rickspencer3, ok good
<rickspencer3> but I don't want to speak for them
<rickspencer3> Laney, structural changes shouldn't tank Ubuntu anymore though
<rickspencer3> right?
<Laney> I'm just saying that milestones have value as checkpoints
<Laney> sorry, I've got no more time to play devil's advocate :-)
<rickspencer3> oh well
<rickspencer3> thanks anyway Laney
<Laney> I'll think about following up on the thread :P
<rickspencer3> I think checkpoints do have value
<Laney> I do think it's a good idea, btw, but my point is that we should think about how to preserve the few good things that milestones give us
<rickspencer3> but I am not sure our current milestone system makes effective checkpoints
<Laney> kudos for raising it
<rickspencer3> Laney,  thanks for your feedback
<rickspencer3> I always feel better after talking to you  ;)
<rickspencer3> have a good night
<Laney> it's a kind of sad night - having dinner out with my girlfriend who is going away for 2 months tomorrow
 * Laney waves :-)
<rickspencer3> :(
<rickspencer3> sorry Laney, have fun though
<bryceh> rickspencer3, he does have a good point about checkpoints
<bryceh> rickspencer3, however I suspect the value can be gained there without necessarily tying it to creation of isos
<rickspencer3> bryceh, right, but that is orthogonal to all the work for spinning an image, I think
<rickspencer3> jynx
<bryceh> it probably should be tied to something, but that could be like a written milestone report or some such
<rickspencer3> frankly, our milestones and freezes get so many exceptions, I'm not sure what they buy us now except for paper work
<rickspencer3> though, I guess, even that paper work helps communication about changes
<bryceh> well, on the X side we do try to organize package updates around them, so we don't destabilize things an inopportune times, but that can also sometimes add delay at points we don't want it.
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: awesome bug: 1014763
<mdeslaur> bug 1014763
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1014763 in evolution "evolution deletes spamd socket file when creating new temp files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014763
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, duh duh, duuuuuh!
<seb128> robert_ancell, ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, sooooo
<robert_ancell> so, all good news?
<seb128> robert_ancell, what are your plans for lightdm?
<robert_ancell> You just decided to stay up late for fun?
<robert_ancell> in what respect
<seb128> robert_ancell, mostly good, but users start considering lightdm upstreams are as responsive than gdm ones to bug reports :p
<robert_ancell> heh
<robert_ancell> well, I have a very low bar to match!
<seb128> lol, and yet you manage to be close of not matching it :p
<robert_ancell> !
<robert_ancell> :)
<robert_ancell> my plans are to recruit a new maintainer called seb128
<seb128> robert_ancell, joke aside, can we land a new version with the utmp commits to quantal? then we can consider backporting those
<robert_ancell> sure
<seb128> robert_ancell, another bug which seems to have interest from other teams is the one about the expired password handling
<seb128> robert_ancell, bug #972537
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 972537 in lightdm "lightdm doesn't allow expired passwords" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972537
<seb128> robert_ancell, if you think you will not have time to work on it can you unassign yourself and comment on the bug? it seems the corporate guys care about it, they might pick it if we bail out
<robert_ancell> ok, shouldn't be too hard to check, I guess the case in unity-greeter --test-mode is not matching this correctly
<robert_ancell> it will be a u-g bug
<seb128> robert_ancell, you are trying to dump it on mterry, aren't you? ;-)
<robert_ancell> If he'll take it!
<seb128> well, he's maintaining unity-greeter right? :-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, otherwise you got lucky, your gtk update didn't break too much :p
<robert_ancell> I told people it would break things, not my fault unico/light-themes is as unresponsive as me
<seb128> robert_ancell, there was some unreadable label issues in combo boxes and indicators but ken covered for you and uploaded the fixes Cimi had in light-theme trunk ;-)
<seb128> lol
<mterry> seb128, robert-ancell: I was trying to avoid totally owning unity-greeter!
<seb128> mterry, FAIL
<seb128> ;-)
<mterry> :)
<seb128> mterry, robert_ancell: who wants to look at bug #990661 btw?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 990661 in lightdm "lightdm zombie process created while press sscape button on Login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990661
 * robert_ancell watches the tumbleweed blow past
<seb128> lol
<mterry> seb128, weird.
<mterry> seb128, I can look
<seb128> mterry, thanks
 * thumper enjoys watching seb128 bug^W discuss issues with someone else...
<robert_ancell> mterry, duplicity update on the books?
<robert_ancell> thumper, "discuss" is not the word
<thumper> hand off?
<seb128> heh
<seb128> you guys are no fun :p
<seb128> I'm just sharing!
<thumper> no... no... this is fun
<mterry> robert_ancell, I have a duplicity update on my TODO, but I wasn't rushing for its changes
<robert_ancell> mterry, I'll assign the bug to you
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-19
<pitti> Good morning
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<kengyu> I wonder if anyone has a free time slot to upload a g-s-d patch for me, bug 950160.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 950160 in gnome-settings-daemon "Unity blocks other programs from binding globally to Super+* or Alt+* (* = any key)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/950160
 * micahg leaves that for a desktopper
<seb128> hey
<RAOF> Good morning!
<seb128> RAOF, hey, how are you?
<RAOF> Good! Yourself?
<seb128> RAOF, good, I think, I'm not fully awake yet but I will be able to tell after coffee ;-)
<RAOF> Got the bottom of the SRU queue done, and am now meandering up the queue into some easier ones :)
<seb128> RAOF, can I point gwibber? ;-)
<seb128> RAOF, it's fixing harder what the current SRU half fixed
<RAOF> Heh
<seb128> RAOF, thanks for the SRU work btw, and sorry for regularly ping you guys about the queue...
<RAOF> No problem; your pings for high-value SRUs are useful :)
<seb128> RAOF, yeah, I still need to corner a SRU team member wanting to ack the libreoffice one ;-)
<RAOF> Looking at it now.
<seb128> brave man!
<RAOF> It's... urgh.
<seb128> RAOF, yeah, I think there is no way any of us can review that, we basically need to trust upstream and the testing Sweetshark got out of the ppa users
<RAOF> Yeah.
<kengyu> more people now, I wonder if anyone has a free time slot to upload a g-s-d patch for me, bug 950160.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 950160 in gnome-settings-daemon "Unity blocks other programs from binding globally to Super+* or Alt+* (* = any key)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/950160
<BigWhale> Anyone from the USC team here?
<BigWhale> I would like to know if the toolbar used in the USC is custom made and if so, is there a lib/api available?
<BigWhale> mvo will probably know, right? :)
<seb128> try #software-center maybe?
<seb128> but I guess it's a custom hack made in python in s-c and not a shared lib
<BigWhale> seb128, software-center isn't on the list of ubuntu channels... so I didn't even bother to try it :>
<seb128> kengyu, hey, did you subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to it? we will try to make sure it's reviewed this week but there is another SRU already uploaded so ideally we need to get that one validated before doing another upload
<seb128> we can probably get the fix in quantal to start though
<seb128> RAOF, if you are not done yet with SRUs, can you review the g-s-d upload in the precise queue? I would like to get that one rolling out to make space for another set of fixes to upload next week (I don't want to batch too much in one upload)
<seb128> RAOF, I will be done with SRU requests for the day (maybe the week) then ;-)
<kengyu> seb128, yes, I did subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.  thanks for the help. :-)
<seb128> kengyu, yw, thanks for the work!
<kengyu> seb128, :-)
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> seb128: Gah vala! I don't suppose it's possible to do the gwibber thing *without* valac generating ~7K lines of noise in the diff?
<seb128> RAOF, hum
<RAOF> It makes reviewing the diff unnecessarily frustrating.
<seb128> RAOF, that diff looks a bit weird to me
<seb128> RAOF, feel free to skip it, I will sort it out with ken today
<RAOF> Ta.
<RAOF> There you go; have a gnome-settings-daemon SRU.
<seb128> RAOF, thanks ;-)
<pitti> not sure what changed recently (GTK?), but right now the theme seems pretty messed up to me; is that a local problem here, or just what quantal is right now?
<RAOF> If you mean square edges on everything, I think that's just quantal right now.
<Laney> pitti: it's a known problem with gtk+3.0 3.5(.4)
<Laney> I think the new light-themes yesterday was supposed to make it better, but not perfect. Or something.
<pitti> buttons are still without rounded corners and menu entries disappear under a white box when hovering
 * pitti will just be patient then, seems it's not a local problem
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> pitti, better to be patient, that's going to be broken for a while
<Laney> btw, you should be able to sync glib2.0 from exp now
<seb128> pitti, basically gtk 3.5 is continuing their css,theming work, dropping stuff which were available but not public but that unico is using
<seb128> pitti, that breaks unico and Cimi, #ps have no time to allocated to fix it
<pitti> Laney: \o/
<seb128> pitti, so it was either "we block on them for ages, or we unblock as we can and break a bit the theme while doing that"
<seb128> we opted for the second option
<Laney> The Cloudâ¢ was quite nice for testing that
 * Laney will be using it more
<seb128> Laney, what is that?
<seb128> Laney, btw did you figure your lightdm issue?
<Laney> I just mean that I used cloud instances to test build and test run it
<Laney> no
<Laney> somehow when I restarted I could startx though, but it just exited almost immediately
<seb128> Laney, you get a full desktop session in the cloud to test? or does that work?
<Laney> just X forwarding
<seb128> ah, I see
<pitti> seb128: seems fine; as long as it's not too broken to actually use it
<seb128> Laney, startx just returning, that's what I though it would be ... do you have the .xession-errors or log?
<Laney> xsession-errors is empty
<seb128> pitti, with the light-themes update from yesterday it should be good enough to be usable
<Laney> let me get the Xorg log. It showed X starting up and then exiting but no obvious errors
<seb128> Laney, even after restart? when you tried yesterday startx didn't work at all
<Laney> yeah
 * Laney boots it
<pitti> seb128: hm, I have that version already
<pitti> anyway, menus are not that crucial; there's the HUD, after all! :-)
<Laney> seb128: http://paste.debian.net/175234
<pitti> it's probably just a test run to drive people towards the HUD, isn't it?
<seb128> pitti, did you restart your session since you got it?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> pitti, shush, that's a secret :p
<pitti> 2012-06-19 07:19:10 status installed light-themes 0.1.10-0ubuntu1
<pitti> indeed, I did't!
 * pitti STFU, sorry
<seb128> pitti, lol, I'm not saying that a restart will fix all the issues but maybe start by trying that ;-)
<seb128> it should be better
<seb128> Laney, what videocard do you have?
<pitti> seb128: at least this thing feels a little bit like a dev release agagin!
<Laney> oh, er, erm
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> It's a Macbook Pro 7.1, whatever they have
<pitti> all this stability, meh
<Laney> some nvidia thing
<Laney> I switched to nouveau /after/ I got this problem, was using nvidia before
<Laney> and anyway the login manager works â¦
<seb128> Laney, ok, I was going to say that nouveau was in the upgrade run
<seb128> Laney, do you have a .xsession?
<Laney> "source ~/.Xdbus"
<TheMuso> pitti: You could always use orca to read the menus to you. :p
<seb128> Laney, hum, can you try to edit .xinitrc and put "exec gnome-session" in it? then try again the startx
<Laney> doing
<Laney> yep
<Laney> that worked
<seb128> Laney, that worked == you get a session?
<Laney> seb128: that's right
<seb128> Laney, but lightdm is still buggy?
<Laney> i'm just dist-upgrading then will restart and see
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Laney, well at least it shows that the issue is not xorg
<Laney> I guess the xinitrc won't make a difference for lightdm?
<seb128> Laney, startx was just returning because it had nothing to run
<Laney> i.e. I don't need to remove it
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> Laney, you don't no
<Laney> I didn't know that's the file that startx executes to start a session
<seb128> Laney, I know it uses it, that's how I use to change my desktop back in the years, putting an exec wmaker in there ;-)
<Laney> hah, yeah â I must have known that too at some point :P
<Laney> ancient unix knowledge bitrotting away
<seb128> Laney, but what is weird is that I though that it would run a session anyway even without that file, here startx starts a gnome session
<Laney> maybe there's a default somewhere
<seb128> hum, no mlankhorst on this channel?
<seb128> RAOF, still around? do you know what is the default session for "startx" if there is one?
 * Laney reboots
<Laney> ok, so same problem with lightdm
<Laney> it affects all users, even the guest session
<seb128> that's going to be fun to debug :-(
<seb128> Laney, can you mv /var/log/lightdm/* away, restart lightdm, try to log in and copy the logs somewhere?
<pitti> I would expect /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager
<Laney> there is an xinitrc in /etc/X11/xinit
<Laney> it comes down to run-parts on /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<seb128> Laney, lightdm runs /etc/lightdm/Xsession
<Laney> doesn't exist here
<Laney> it lists the ones in /usr/share/xsessions though
<seb128> Laney, ?!
<mlankhorst> hey
<Laney> ls /etc/lightdm gives lightdm.conf unity-greeter.conf users.conf
<seb128> Laney, ok, maybe that's a conffile leftover on my box
<mlankhorst> what 's going on?
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<seb128> mlankhorst, do you know what session "startx" is supposed to run in absense of a .xinitrc?
<mlankhorst> xterm probably
<seb128> ok, weird
<seb128> it runs nothing for Laney, startx just bails out
<seb128> it seems to run gnome-session for me
<seb128> Laney, ah, it's /usr/sbin/lightdm-session nowadays
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/lightdm/
<seb128> Laney, [+6.84s] DEBUG: Session 3690 running command /usr/sbin/lightdm-session gnome-session-xmonad
<seb128> Laney, what is that xmonad?
<Laney> another window manger i was using
<seb128> Laney, does that command work or is available?
<Laney> it's the session i chose to run, but also happens with unity
<Laney> yes
<mlankhorst> Laney: what's exactly going on?
<Laney> I get thrown back to the login manager after logging in, with any user including the guest session
<Laney> startx does the same with no .xinitrc, but with one it functions as expected
<pitti> tkamppeter: hey Till, how are you?
<seb128> Laney, can you hack /usr/sbin/lightdm-session to echo "something" >> /tmp/lightdm.debug and see if that happens when you try to log in?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm currently looking into Debian bug 640939
<ubot2> Debian bug 640939 in cups "hplip-cups: asks for root password when cups updates PPDs" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/640939
<pitti> tkamppeter: I already fixed the other RC bug in bzr, want to do an upload today (urgent to fix armel FTBFS)
<pitti> tkamppeter: woudl you know a way for lpadmin to never ask for a password?
<pitti> s/a/root/
<Laney> seb128: ok
<Laney> it already does echo stuff though; do you know where that goes?
<Laney> right then, that's some information
<Laney> it doesn't get past the loop over $xsessiondir
<seb128> Laney, we had issues in the past where a parsing error in any of those files were creating login fail issues
<seb128> Laney, so my bet is that one of the file in that dir is buggy
<Laney> it gets right to the last one
<Laney> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99x11-common_start
<seb128> Laney, can you echo $STARTUP from it?
<seb128> or echo $... > /tmp/log
<seb128> not sure where stdout is directed
<mlankhorst> Laney: how much disk space do you have?
<Laney> adding some more echo statements
<mlankhorst> and anything in ~/.xsession-errors ?
<seb128> Laney, yeah, is your disk or partition full? ;-)
<Laney> mlankhorst: 70G free
<mlankhorst> or ~/.xsession-errors-:*
<Laney> nothing relevant, a perl warning from msva
<seb128> Laney, did you try to pring $STARTUP?
<seb128> Laney, it seems 99x11-common_start just runs that command
<Laney> yes, it gave me a lead
<Laney> ok, got it
<Laney> its a bug in monkeysphere
<Laney> strange though, that hasn't been updated in ages
<seb128> Laney, we should really try to improve things to make such errors easier to spot and maybe not bail out when they happen
<mlankhorst> seb128: that is unfortunately the single point of failure :(
<seb128> Laney, once you get to the bottom of it can you do a summary of what was wrong and how it make lightdm bail out?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I played around a little, and there doesn't seem to be a simple way; I'll postpone this and upload current bzr for now
<Laney> seb128: Yeah, but I don't see how to get around it with this design. The scripts can construct a command that the display manager executes (in $STARTUP), and this package was inserting something buggy in there
<seb128> Laney, ok, very weird that it was working before though...
<Laney> perhaps it was perl or some random library that monkeysphere uses
<seb128> Laney, in any case good that we figure it out
<seb128> figured
<Laney> yeah, was a fun debugging trip
<Laney> thanks for the help
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks as well ;-)
<Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=677565
<Laney> that
<ubot2> Debian bug 677565 in msva-perl "msva-perl: Insecure dependency in socket while running with -T switch at /usr/lib/perl/5.14/IO/Socket.pm line 80" [Grave,Open]
<Laney> as you can see it's a new bug :-)
<seb128> Laney, is monkeysphere changing $STARTUP in some way? or the fact that it errors out breaks further scripts?
<Laney> yes it inserts itself into $STARTUP
<seb128> Laney, ok, not a lot we can do against that then
<Laney> I suppose that it could try to execute a fallback if $STARTUP fails
<seb128> the whole $STARTUP thing concept seems flaky though
<seb128> yeah, it should
<Laney> mlankhorst: do you know if that would be possible?
<mlankhorst> theoretically..
<mlankhorst> assuming you use bash
<Laney> why does it need to assume that?
<Laney> can't it exec some fallback session?
<mlankhorst> because exec will ordinarily cause the whole Xsession to fail if it doesn't succeed
<mlankhorst> it returns the error code of exec
<Laney> yeah, I mean try to exec something else if the normal one fails
<Laney> in this case it was because something polluted $STARTUP, so if it fell back to a clean one it would have worked
<mlankhorst> I mean bash will usually do this: exec foo becomes exec foo || exit $?
<mlankhorst> but I forgot which 'set' option changed it
<Laney> hm
<Laney> so make it nonfatal in 99_whatever and have one more after it which is fatal
<Laney> but the file is sourced, not executed, â¦
<mlankhorst> it's execfail
<mlankhorst> If set, a non-interactive shell will not exit if it cannot execute the file specified as an argument to the exec-builtin command. An interactive shell does not exit if exec fails.
<mlankhorst> before the final exec, however that doesn't guarantee it will work.. probably best to handle in lightdm instead
<mlankhorst> and then spawn a session that DOESN'T use /etc/Xsession at all
<tkamppeter> pitti, what are you talking about?
<pitti> tkamppeter: cups.postinst's trigger calls lpadmin
<pitti> tkamppeter: and in some configurations that asks for a password
<pitti> which it must not
<RAOF> I don't suppose we could throw /etc/Xsession away entirely as a generally bad idea? :)
<mlankhorst> RAOF: No :(
<tkamppeter> pitti, about Debian bug 640939, most probably the user has a configuration with a client.conf, pointing all CUPS clients (lpadmin, lpstat, system-config-printer) away from the local CUPS daemon. The remote CUPS daemon asks for the password then.
<seb128> RAOF, I don't think it would take a lot to convince robert_ancell, he was close of doing that with lightdm :p
<ubot2> Debian bug 640939 in cups "hplip-cups: asks for root password when cups updates PPDs" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/640939
<pitti> tkamppeter: I thought we already solved this case with the -h /var/run/cups.sock thing
<tkamppeter> pitti, there are already measures applied against this, CUPS tools called with the "-h" option especially. What has to be done is to check through all maintainer scripts of CUPS whether nowhere the "-h" was forgotten.
<pitti> tkamppeter: it's the two lpadmin calls in ppd_updater()
<pitti> tkamppeter: I guess the reporters have some weird configuration
<tkamppeter> pitti, these two have "-h" AFAIR. Perhaps the reporters have done away with /var/run/cups.sock. But should lpadmin then not simply error out?
<pitti> tkamppeter: it does for me
<pitti> $ sudo lpadmin -h /var/run/cups/cups.sock.invalid -p testraw -P /usr/share/ppd/cupsfilters/textonly.ppd
<pitti> lpadmin: Unable to connect to server: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
<tkamppeter> pitti, or can it be that the reporter has restricted root's rights ending up that root is not allowed to administer local CUPS (is this possible?).
<pitti> tkamppeter: I haven't debugged this any further really; it's certainly possible with some weird cups configuration
<pitti> tkamppeter: perhaps with an auth type different than "basic"
<tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps you ask the reporter for his cupsd.conf. and client.conf (both /etc/cups and ~/.cups/client.conf).
<pitti> tkamppeter: done
<cyphermox> good morning!
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
<cyphermox> seb128: hey, not bad
<cyphermox> and you?
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm good thanks ;-)
<Chipaca> hi guys
<Chipaca> what's up with the unthemed indicator menus in unity-2d in Q?
<kenvandine> hey Chipaca
<kenvandine> i don't know what they look like in unity-2d, but there is currently some bumpiness with gtk 3.5 and light-themes
<Chipaca> ah, ok
<kenvandine> in unity 3d a couple of them have the wrong bgcolor
<kenvandine> perhaps unthemed, but it is known
<kenvandine> Chipaca, at least they still work :)
<Chipaca> it's like it's 2002 all over again
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> getting gtk 3.5.x in has been a bit of a pita, mostly due to themeing changes
<Chipaca> is anybody outside of my team running the u1 test suite on Q?
<kenvandine> not me
<Chipaca> because syncdaemon in Q isn't connecting, and we don't have a jenkins slave up for Q yet
<Chipaca> (which is why it's in the state it is)
<kenvandine> :)
<cyphermox> Chipaca: not connecting as an SSL error? I reported a bug about that yesterday
<Chipaca> cyphermox: yup
<Chipaca> well, it's not a ssl error, although it is ssl that complains
<Chipaca> cyphermox: bug #?
<kenvandine> Chipaca, fwiw it was working a week or so ago
<kenvandine> i just noticed last night that it wasn't working
<Chipaca> kenvandine: *should* platform be running our QA suite?
<kenvandine> but i have files synced to my Q laptop that are a week old
<kenvandine> Chipaca, i don't think so... but i think we should care that your tests are passing before they land in the distro
<Chipaca> we've had tests break by the gtk upgrade for example
<kenvandine> interesting...
<kenvandine> or was that scrolling related?
<kenvandine> what kinds of tests do you have that need gtk?
<cyphermox> Chipaca: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/1014654 is what I have reported
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1014654 in ubuntuone-client "ubuntuone-syncdaemon fails to sync (fails to verify SSL certificate)" [Undecided,In progress]
<Chipaca> kenvandine: test that test that a certain label has a certain color
<kenvandine> interesting..
<Chipaca> cyphermox: thanks
<kenvandine> we aren't really prepared to run the tests for everything that is in the distro
<kenvandine> kind of tricky
<kenvandine> something like gtk we try to beat the crap out of it manually
<kenvandine> since it could affect so many things
<kenvandine> and we found quite a few blockers with gtk 3.5 which delayed landing it
<kenvandine> several weeks at least
<kenvandine> Chipaca, what is that test for?  the nautlius plugin?
<Chipaca> kenvandine: ralsina knows more
<kenvandine> Chipaca, have you seen the scrollbar issue in Q with the control panel?
<Chipaca> kenvandine: (because i sure don't :) )
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> i can't think of anything else that uses gtk
<kenvandine> oh, maybe the music store
<ralsina> kenvandine: it was a test in ubuntu-sso-client
<kenvandine> Chipaca, bug 1007421
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1007421 in ayatana-scrollbar "ubuntuone-control-panel-qt has no scrollbars on quantal" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1007421
<kenvandine> ralsina, ^^
<kenvandine> not sure it is something u1 should/can fix
<ralsina> kenvandine: yes, I am aware of that one, I don't see what I can do about it though :-)
<ralsina> :-( I meant
<kenvandine> probably more for overlay-scrollbar
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> damn, still un-assigned
 * kenvandine assigns that
<Chipaca> kenvandine: the scrollbars were made into a gtk module, but the app the bug is against is qt?
<kenvandine> yeah, it is a weird gray area afaict
<ralsina> why bother making the scrollbars a gtk module? it's not like it's going to not be loaded...
<kenvandine> it means we know long patch the crap out of gtk
<kenvandine> it is much more maintainable
<Chipaca> ralsina: that way it can be slow
 * Chipaca takes off his evil hat
<kenvandine> the weird thing is why that affects the qt app that way
<ralsina> kenvandine: probably the qt theme that loads styles from gtk is not making the scrollbars module load
<ralsina> kenvandine: or something evil like that
<kenvandine> ralsina, doubt that... if so then it would just have regular scrollbars
<dobey> hmm
<kenvandine> and it isn't like it is just not drawing the thumb
<kenvandine> the indicator for the scrollbar isn't there either
<ralsina> kenvandine: could be getting wrong size info and keeping it 0-width
<dobey> uh, hi
<ralsina> hi dobey! interject! ;-)
<seb128> Chipaca, ralsina, kenvandine: we do want to start running testsuits from selected rdepends before i.e gtk uploads
<Chipaca> ralsina: OTOH, the control panel displays nothing
<Chipaca> seb128: s/i.e/e.g/ :)
<seb128> Chipaca, ralsina, kenvandine: that's not done yet but on the roadmap for this cycle
<ralsina> seb128: awesome
<seb128> Chipaca, ups, e.g indeed, thanks ;-)
<ralsina> Chipaca, kenvandine: I am setting up a Q VM right now, if I can make everything work on it I can try to see what's wrong with the scrollbar info
<Chipaca> seb128: excellent. When that happens, we're using jenkins for QA ourselves, so you should find it simple to port into your stuff
<seb128> Chipaca, great
<dobey> seb128: well i'm trying to get our test suites running during builds in q, but unfortunately there are some things that prevent it happening for all our stuff :-/
<kenvandine> ralsina, that would be cool
<ralsina> kenvandine: no promises but I'll try :-)
<kenvandine> appreciated
<kenvandine> i have no idea when cimi will look at it
<kenvandine> and he will likely blame QT
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> so would be nice to cover the bases there
<dobey> and of course, the python3 thing doesn't make it any easier
<ralsina> haha, sure
<Chipaca> ralsina: confirmed the list of folders in the control panel is empty in Q
<ralsina> Chipaca: sigh
<ralsina> Chipaca: installing Q it is
<kenvandine> Chipaca, my list of folders isn't empty
<kenvandine> and i can scroll with my mouse wheel to see them all :)
<Chipaca> kenvandine: maybe i need to disable proposed?
<kenvandine> in Q?
<Chipaca> yes
<kenvandine> Chipaca, you just confused me... quantal-proposed?
<seb128> kenvandine, proposed is used as a staging in q
<kenvandine> i doubt that would make a difference
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> but I doubt we have anything in there
<kenvandine> but doubt there is much in there
<seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
<Chipaca> i get a bunch of (python:13774): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
<Chipaca> and the debug log does show the control panel *getting* the folder list
<Chipaca> but it's not displayed
<seb128> Chipaca, isn't that dialog using qt?
<Chipaca> seb128: yes
<seb128> Chipaca, why do you get gtk style errors?
<ralsina> seb128: yes it is, but it loads gtk to get info about how to draw the widgets
<Chipaca> seb128: i presume because of the qt stylorator
<kenvandine> probably the qt theme stuff coming from gtk
<seb128> kenvandine, do you have that qt glue installed? is that coming by default?
<kenvandine> should be by default
<seb128> I would not be surprised if gtk 3.5 broke that code...
<kenvandine> i have a ton of updates available
<kenvandine> upgrading now
<kenvandine> only a day behind though
<dobey> gtk 3.5 broke my heart.
<Chipaca> dobey: is this like asteroids, where you now have two, smaller hearts?
<kenvandine> i get all that noise and my folders are listed
<dobey> probably
<dobey> my heart shrank 3 times that day
<Chipaca> dobey: i'm told qml is quite nice
<dobey> i'm liking fox
<kenvandine> go go go
<kenvandine> :-D
<dobey> man, fox-toolkit.org still uses frames even
<kenvandine> oh... cross platform...
<kenvandine> which of course means it'll never be more than mediocre...
<dobey> yeah, stuck with the likes of gtk+ and qt
<kenvandine> no comment :)
<kenvandine> there is something to be said for focusing your energy on creating a toolkit that is awesome on one platform
<dobey> i know right. borland forever.
<dpm> hi kenvandine, here's a question for you -> http://askubuntu.com/questions/152882/how-do-i-post-to-gwibber-from-python :)
<kenvandine> i think i can answer that :)
<kenvandine> dpm, that SRU is still waiting for approval :(
<kenvandine> s-fox gave a bad example just 6 hours ago... sigh... i gave him an example that uses GIR just yesterday
<dobey> heh
<dobey> kenvandine: well, technically s-fox did that on the 15th, and someone else posted it 6 hours ago, giving credit
<dobey> albeit the example script won't work for other reasons (main loop is never actually started)
<dpm> kenvandine, is the upload not yet in -proposed?
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> dpm, no... it is waiting for approval
<kenvandine> the SRU team still needs to ack it
<kenvandine> :/
<kenvandine> seb128 is trying to help :)
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, I'm just on it as we speak
<dpm> excellent, thanks!
<dpm> kenvandine, do you think you can answer that question on askubuntu?
<dobey> dpm: kenvandine does not repeat himself!
<dobey> :)
<dpm> lol
<kenvandine> dpm,  i just did
<dpm> thanks kenvandine :)
<dpm> upvoted
<kenvandine> thx
<Riddell> Laney: is language-selector going away?
<Laney> Riddell: For GNOME/Unity, I hope so. It won't be removed as long as others such as yourselves are using it
<Riddell> Laney: who's implementing the replacement?
<Laney> the blueprint is assigned to me, but upstream g-c-c has most of the code already
<Laney> I believe the installer also uses part of l-s
<seb128> Riddell, GNOME system settings has a "region" panel, we are just adding langpack support to is basically
<seb128> is->it
<seb128> Laney, btw how is that work going?
<Laney> I've been poking around the code. Some of rodrigo_'s branch isn't merged yet so I need to speak with him and find out why / what is left
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey ;-)
<rodrigo_> hi seb128!
<Riddell> seb128: where's the code?  I think the bits I'd be after first of all are how to find a list of packages/languages and then how it installs them
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> I put some test packages with the rest of the branch merged on a PPA
<kenvandine> hey rodrigo_!
<rodrigo_> hi kenvandine!
<rodrigo_> seb128, fine, and you?
<Laney> :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm good thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, so, Laney is looking at finishing the "use the region panel instead of language selector"
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you still plan to get your git work merged upstream? what was missing?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, don't remember what was missing, tbh
<rodrigo_> seb128, mclasen has been working on the input sources thing, so you might better talk to him
<rodrigo_> iirc, it needed a standard way to get all the languages
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, which I guess says you have no real time,interest to finish the branch you started on and we better check what's the current status upstream to see what is missing?
<Laney> I'll get jhbuild set up to see what the story is there
<rodrigo_> seb128, I have no time, rather than interest :-)
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<rodrigo_> so yes, check with mclasen
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, well in any case we better not wait on you, noted
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> yes, I talked with pitti some months ago about it, and he told me you really needed the input sources thing, to replace language-selector, right?
<rodrigo_> so, I completely forgot about it
<seb128> yeah, I think we need that
<seb128> though I'm not really familiar with the details either
<Laney> there was a huge thread on ddl about input methods recently
<Laney> not sure if there was a conclusion
<rodrigo_> there was another guy recently pushing stuff to an input sources branch
<rodrigo_> Laney, yeah :)
<rodrigo_> Laney, AFAIK, no conclusion, but didn't read it all
<Laney> seems like something people get heated about, but TBH I don't really know much about it
<seb128> Laney, the discussion was about input framework, but it basically got down to "ibus will be used, somebody is working on that and work will be merged this cycle"
<seb128> Laney, some first patches got merged in and 3.5 stopped using libgnomekbd already, next patches round will add ibus support
<seb128> Laney, gnome bug #662489 for the details
<ubot2> Gnome bug 662489 in Region & Language "region: implement input sources" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662489
<Laney> yeah I'm on that now ;)
<seb128> Laney, the list discussion is not worth reading, it was more discussion between ibus supported and fcitx supporters
<Riddell> rodrigo_: what have you implemented so far?
<rodrigo_> Riddell, see the code, I don't remember, sorry :)
<rodrigo_> Riddell, iirc, it was only missing, apart from the input sources thing, a way to get all the languages in all distros
<Laney> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/log/?h=wip/install-languages
<Laney> using PK's WhatProvides interface
<rodrigo_> yes, I think the call to PK for installing the languages was not finished
<rodrigo_> so, those 2 things should be the stuff left
<Riddell> Laney: how do I check that out?
<rodrigo_> IIRC, pitti added my patch to PackageKit, improving it
<Laney> Riddell: g-c-c in my PPA has it merged
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~laney/+archive/gcc
<Laney> mmm I can't install packagekit-tools
<seb128> kenvandine, dpm: gwibber accept to precise-proposed, thanks to bdmurray
<dpm> thanks seb128!
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> thx!
<kenvandine> :-D
<dpm> kenvandine, no excuse to finish the tutorial this week, then! :P
<kenvandine> dpm: indeed
<kenvandine> :)
<mlankhorst> no meeting today?
<seb128> mlankhorst, DOH
<mlankhorst> :)
<seb128> kenvandine, mlankhorst, didrocks, chrisccoulson, mterry, Ursinha, tkamppeter, Laney, whoever I forgot: did you have a meeting topic?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<kenvandine> nothing from me
<mterry> nope
<mlankhorst> nope
<chrisccoulson> me neither
<chrisccoulson> that was quick ;)
<seb128> oh, chrisccoulson is there ;-)
<seb128> ok, no meeting, thanks guys ;-)
<seb128> micahg, hey
<seb128> micahg, what's the status on tb13?
 * Laney is having panda fun
<BigWhale> Dear desktop developers, not having a 'standard ubuntu Gtk Toolkit' is slightly frustrating. :)
<seb128> Laney, I need to get a 4G sd, mines are too small for a desktop install
<seb128> or 16G or something
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i've just ordered a 16gb SD
<Laney> I have an 8G one, but the desktop preinstalled image wouldn't boot
<Laney> server worked
<seb128> what was the issue with the desktop one?
<seb128> blame it on ogra_!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<Laney> I'm blaming him in another channel :P
<Laney> hung at "booting the kernel"
<seb128> good ;-)
<kenvandine> Laney, what kind of monitor?
<Laney> I have a HDMI to DVI cable
<kenvandine> mine appeared to not boot... but i had a hdmi -> DVI cable
<kenvandine> ah...
<Laney> but I was watching the serial output
<kenvandine> you need pure hdmi
<kenvandine> yeah... do you get "Booting linux"
<kenvandine> or somethign like that?
<seb128> I guess I will need to put mine on the TV
<Laney> it just hangs at Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel.
<seb128> I don't have a spare hdmi monitor
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> you need an hdmi monitor
<Laney> that could be caused by the monitor?
<kenvandine> yes
<Laney> weird
<kenvandine> it hands off the display
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm sure an hd TV will do as a monitor?
<Laney> I would rather run it headless
<kenvandine> the serial stuff isn't configured to output the boot messages to the console
<seb128> Laney, you need a display to install
<kenvandine> Laney, so it did boot
<seb128> Laney, no?
<kenvandine> but it needs to go through the configure stage in the installer
<seb128> then you can remote access it
<kenvandine> ^^
<kenvandine> seb128, it should work on a TV
<Laney> but I have no HDMI so I seem kind of screwed anyway :P
<seb128> kenvandine, cool, I will try that then
<Laney> the server preinstalled image gives you oem-config over the serial link
<kenvandine> yeah, the desktop image isn't configured to do that
<seb128> Laney, oh, that's cool
<kenvandine> you could open up the image and change that
<kenvandine> then boot
<chrisccoulson> ah, i'm going to have the same problem as Laney then
<Laney> we should have a "how to get this stuff working" session with ogra_ :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no hdmi moniteur nor HD TV?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, unforunately not
<chrisccoulson> perhaps i should buy a new monitor ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, enjoy ubuntu server ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<mlankhorst> Laney: yeah I was wondering about the pandaboard, i finally found video drivers worser than fglrx ;)
<Laney> heheh
<mlankhorst> it glitches on obscure things like hiding mouse cursor or scrolling
<mlankhorst> and kernel panics on resolution change :s
<mlankhorst> but despite that I love it since it's the most silent computer I have and fbdev isn't that bad
<cyphermox> glatzor: ping
<glatzor>  hello cyphermox
<cyphermox> hey
<cyphermox> glatzor: wow, I never thought you'd be online at this time
<cyphermox> glatzor: so; I saw you have a branch for a python 3 port of software-properties, I was wondering how much work you had already done on that
<glatzor> cyphermox, It is quite hot here still in the evening.
<glatzor> cyphermox, the branch was just a quick hack to get python3-software-properties which was required by aptdaemon some time ago
<cyphermox> ok
<glatzor> cyphermox, cjwatson did a lot of work on a correct port
<cyphermox> ah, alright :)
<cyphermox> I was doing that this afternoon; pretty much done
<cyphermox> gah, it would have jumped in my face if I had looked carefully enough
<glatzor> cyphermox, lp:~cjwatson/software-properties/python3
<cyphermox> glatzor: thanks, so I'll bug him
<glatzor> yeah, there is currently a lot of work done on the python 3 effort
<glatzor> barry maintaines a google document with some details
<glatzor> cyphermox, the link to the document should be on the wiki page of the blueprint
<cyphermox> cool, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-20
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> rodrigo_: wasn't input support recently discussed upstream at least for ibus? that should solve most use cases anyway
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
<rickspencer3> pitti, I am doing well
<rickspencer3> I am excited today
<rickspencer3> looking forward to the increased manual testing cadence
<rickspencer3> jono told me that they are going to go for complete test runs every 2 weeks!
<rickspencer3> pitti, how are you doing?
<pitti> nice!
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'm great, thanks! Making good progress on our jenkins autopkgtest tests
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> nice to see us continuing to make progress on quality in 12.10
<rickspencer3> pitti, is it true that we go for weeks without ARM images?
<rickspencer3> ogra_, ^
<pitti> I'm not sure
<pitti> I haven't really followed them so far
<pitti> but last Friday I got a Panda board delivered, I was going to set it up today
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> so, I don't know why we would think that we need to wait for milestones to fix that
<pitti> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/20120619/ seems current, though
<rickspencer3> I don't consider this to be a good state of affairs if we are going days without an image, we should figure out the problems and solve them
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> I was wondering if it was a point in time thing
<pitti> rickspencer3: I think infinity, ScottK, you, and me are mostly talking past each other
<rickspencer3> pitti, well, I tried to clarify on my last response
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, that's the point of the stable+1 team
<pitti> it seems we all violently agree
<rickspencer3> I think there were a few discussions mixed together
<pitti> and the main point of dissent is the nomenclature
<rickspencer3> well, I really just wanted to know about not freezing, to be honest
<rickspencer3> (for the milestones)
<pitti> IMHO, when we all rally around testing on certain points in time (say, every two weeks) to shake out bugs found in manual testing, why not just call this a "milestone"?
<pitti> because that's exactly what milestones have been
<rickspencer3> pitti, right
<pitti> we can call it differently, of course
<rickspencer3> but we can't do that if we freeze the archive and everything
<pitti> we haven't actually frozen the archive for alphas in years
<rickspencer3> well, we sort of do
<pitti> it was a soft-freeze, so people still backed up a bit
<pitti> but we need that if we want to be able to put out a known-good image
<rickspencer3> well, people tell me that it caused them a lot of extra work, and it went slow
<pitti> using -proposed by default shoudl help a lot here
<rickspencer3> I think Thierry's idea was ideal
<rickspencer3> just use the "last known good" image
<rickspencer3> which I think we can easily do these days
<pitti> "a lot of extra work" and "slowing down developers" should be, quite frankly, blatant lies
<rickspencer3> oooh
<pitti> you can queue up stuff in bzr, in PPAs, work on bugs, work in upstream trunks, etc.
<rickspencer3> well, that all sounds like extra work and slowing down development to me
<rickspencer3> lol
<pitti> except for the release team, of course, who do have to work fulltime on the images
<rickspencer3> yup
<pitti> rickspencer3: not to me; we do stuff in bzr, at upstream, etc. anyway
<pitti> the only thing that you need to hold back a bit is uploading to the dev release
<pitti> but that's not causing any extra work
<pitti> it's just causing some delay of landing stuff
<rickspencer3> well, I think that delay is lost velocity
<pitti> you can upload to a PPA if you want other folks to test
<pitti> well, you can't have both
<rickspencer3> can't have both what?
<pitti> we can't produce a known-good image for public testing _and_ have uploading go on at full speed
<rickspencer3> I think we produce lots of known-good images
<rickspencer3> good enough for public testing
<rickspencer3> I think we do it *most* days, in fact
<pitti> well
<pitti> we produce a lot of images where jenkins thinks they are good
<pitti> if they actually _were_ good, the release team wouldn't need to work three times and 10 respins to actually _make_ them work
<pitti> s/times/days/
<rickspencer3> yeah, but we know we need the respins because of the manual testing
<pitti> well
<rickspencer3> so, those respins are usually about fixing installer bugs and such
<pitti> we need the respins because of the bugs only found by manual testing
<pitti> correct
<rickspencer3> yeah, so those bugs don't really block testing, do they?
<pitti> if the daily image on milestone date minus two days were good, we would just use it
<pitti> sure they do
<pitti> we had a lot of cases where the installs completely fell over
<pitti> or the result didn't actually work
<rickspencer3> yeah, but those installs falling over are test results, no?
<rickspencer3> so we fix the bugs
<pitti> correct
<pitti> and then need to re-test again until we have an image which really works
<rickspencer3> right
<pitti> once we have that, we unfreeze and publish that
<rickspencer3> so
<pitti> which is the really easy part
<rickspencer3> a. it's not really frozen, is it, as we keep changing the installer
<pitti> (well, there's documentation and announcements to write, and so on)
<rickspencer3> b. we should be doing that at will, not only a few times per cycle
<pitti> that's what we call a freeze - only upload minimal changes that fix the breakage, and not upload other stuff which introduces breakage again
<rickspencer3> so, I think making sure the installer works is very very good
<rickspencer3> but I think having the whole milestone process is a lot of effort for that one focused area
<rickspencer3> we could just have people test the installer weekly, etc...
<rickspencer3> and fix the bugs soon after they are introduced
<pitti> we could, but I really doubt it would go as well
<pitti> infinity hit the nail on the head
<pitti> although he expressed it differently
<rickspencer3> oh?
<pitti> you need to _make_ time for this
<rickspencer3> indeed
<pitti> otherwise it will not happen
<rickspencer3> but we need to make time for it more than a few times per cycle
<pitti> we don't have a lot of devs who say "gosh, I'm bored today, let's test some images"
<pitti> rickspencer3: I agree
<rickspencer3> it takes a lot more time to fix bugs weeks or months after they are introduced
<pitti> so if anything, we need more milestones, not fewer
<rickspencer3> lol
<pitti> that's what I meant with "we can certainly discuss about the frequency"
<rickspencer3> well, we need more frequent testing, and higher standards for "daily quality"
<pitti> but I don't see how we can drop the entire concept and process
<rickspencer3> pitti, well, we drop it when it is no longer useful to us
<rickspencer3> and it is no longer useful to us when our daily quality exceeds what we get from milestones today
<pitti> when our automated daily testing is good enough one day, we won't need it, yes
<rickspencer3> to be clear, I'm not arguing to drop milestones, I didn't actually bring that up
<rickspencer3> oh, I think some manual testing is always needed
<pitti> right, it won't happen in the next two years
<rickspencer3> I think automated testing tells you how worth it is to do manual testing
<rickspencer3> actually, I think it will happen soon
<pitti> (automatic testing being sufficiently good, I mean)
<rickspencer3> right
<pitti> e. g. for the installer we do not test the UI at all
<rickspencer3> but I think we can rally the testing community to give us more actionable and more frequent feedback
<pitti> the preseeding is by and large a special-case code path
<rickspencer3> pitti, it seems like the installer is such a special case for us, we should be much more focused on it
<pitti> and we don't test GL, graphics, unity, sound, etc.
<rickspencer3> like we have all of this release machinery and effort built around the whole distro, when it really comes down to ensuring the installer works
<pitti> I'd actually like to drop the preseeding and do real interaction with the installer UI/widgets
<pitti> well, it's installer + kernel + X.org + unity + sound + different hardware platforms
<rickspencer3> interestingly, xorg and unity do a lot of testing outside of the distro testing cadence
<pitti> right; the more dev release daily users we have, the better (and they are growing, I think)
<rickspencer3> yeah, and the better our daily quality, the more we will get
<rickspencer3> but I think the community team can help by bringing rigor more rigor to the dev release testers
<rickspencer3> I bet there are a lot of people who would love to contribute in that manner
 * micahg would love a way to automate UI testing :)
<rickspencer3> micahg, sounds like you find a nice weekend project ;)
<pitti> yeah, it's also one of the things I'd like to work on
<pitti> I already test apport that way (GTK and KDE)
<pitti> by emitting clicks to the buttons and other UI parts, and checkign the state of the program and widgets afterwards
<pitti> it's still a lot of overhead, we need to think about how to make this radically simpler
<pitti> but it does work in principle
<rickspencer3> didn't someone make a desktop recorder kind of app at some point?
<rickspencer3> like you click around and it generates Python code for your clicks?
<pitti> dogtail
<pitti> it requires a11y enabled, and only works for blackbox testing
<pitti> but for this kind of installer test, blackbox might actually suffice
<rickspencer3> in the meantime, it sounds like we should see if we can arrange some people to test the installer on more like a weekly basis
<rickspencer3> (by manual testing, I mean)
<jibel> micahg, ldtp is good for UI testing of GTK apps but not all components are exposed in Ubiquity. For Qt, the testability driver is very good.
<micahg> jibel: I need non-GTK :), I'd ideally like to automate distro firefox testing :)
<pitti> I thought firefox was gtk2?
<micahg> yes, for some things
<jibel> ldtp works quite fine with firefox, but identifying links in pages is a real pain
<micahg> jibel: links can be done other ways
<jibel> well, you can mix technologies
<micahg> right
<micahg> jibel: ok, I'll have to look at ldtp at some point then, thanks
 * micahg loves 500 errors when searching for stuff 
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
 * pitti hugs didrocks for the lost game, but at least you are in the quarter finals
<didrocks> hey pitti
<didrocks> pitti: are we? I'm totally disconnected from football world :)
 * didrocks hugs pitti nevertheless
<seb128> hey
<Sweetshark> good mooooorning desktoppers!
 * Sweetshark survived a good flamefest yesterday: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/ANN-Please-use-Gerrit-from-now-on-for-Patch-Review-td3990754.html
<Sweetshark> seb128: whats the current state with libreoffice SRU/MRE, btw? i somehow lost track there ...
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<seb128> hey Sweetshark, pitti
<pitti> seb128: hope you aren't too sad about the game
 * Sweetshark waves at pitti 
<seb128> Sweetshark, it has been acked in principle, it just needs a courageous SRU team member to press the button
<Sweetshark> seb128: lets make that a big red botton with the text "nuke" on it ...
<seb128> pitti, if we had to play bad once it was better to be this game, I hope we do better against Spain!
<seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, RAOF said he was looking at libreoffice yesterday, not sure how far he went, otherwise we will need to chase down slangasek to ack it, I don't think the other SRU team members will do it
<Sweetshark> seb128: spain-croatia wasnt really showing any spanish dominance, so you should stand your chances ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, we both had a day off, let's see how that plays out for the next game...
<micahg> seb128: I finally managed a backtrace for my weird bug: Bug #1015443
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015443 in thunderbird "Thunderbird hangs the desktop when escaping from password prompt" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015443
<micahg> seb128:the thing is, I can't seem to reproduce on my metal precise system in the same env
<seb128> micahg, is that an unity-2d issue again? ;-)
<micahg> seb128: no, I can reproduce in lucid and natty w/out unity
<micahg> I am thinking it might be an X/driver issue of some sort though
<micahg> since I can't reproduce in the host env
<seb128> micahg, is that blocking the tb13 update?
<seb128> micahg, what happened to firefox 13.0.1?
<micahg> seb128: yes
<micahg> seb128: well, I wanted to try to get TB out, but ran into this again, I'll go back to finishing FF now
<seb128> micahg, that doesn't seem worth blocking the update honestly, especially if that happens only in vms
<micahg> seb128: well, I don't know what video driver combinations would trigger it
<micahg> if that's indeed the issue, if it's only VMs, I agree :)
<seb128> micahg, are you sure it's a new issue in 13?
<micahg> seb128: yes, I reverted to 12 and can't reproduce
<seb128> micahg, did you open an upstream bug?
<micahg> seb128: no, as I don't know if it affects upstream or not (depends if it's a thunderbird bug or a bug elsewhere in the stack)
<seb128> micahg, we really have an issue there in the velocity of how we deal with problems and we need to sort that
<seb128> micahg, we are over a week late for that update already, and that bug seems nowhere close from being resolved or debugged :-(
<micahg> seb128: yes, indeed, we'll be testing 14 in advance
<seb128> micahg, it usually doesn't hurt to take upstream input on issues
<micahg> seb128: unfortunately, when I tried to reproduce last week, I couldn't, so I figured that maybe it was fixed by the unity update
<micahg> seb128: but, we are slated to do beta testing this time around, so that should give us more time to fix issues as they pop up
<seb128> micahg, ok, at least that's a move in the right direction ;-)
<seb128> micahg, can you go finish the firefox update, I will try to see with chrisccoulson if we can help on the tb hang you are having
<micahg> seb128: yep, doing so now
<seb128> thanks
<micahg> seb128: FWIW, the protocol testing that I managed to do before it froze each time seemed to be fine
<seb128> micahg, does going to a vt and killing tb release the lock, i.e do you get your desktop back if you do that?
<micahg> seb128: let me see, ISTR no, but I'll try again
<seb128> micahg, the "hang" description is weird, keyboard working and no mouse?
<micahg> ooh, yeah, it does release it
<micahg> more info, mouse moves (menubar appears, but clicks aren't recognized)
 * micahg adds to the report
<mvo> pitti: do you remember the set_data/get_data in gobject we talked about some time ago? I use it in the tests in software-center quite a bit to store various bits and piece of information, is it coming back as a compat function for gobject or do I need to rip it all out and replace ?
<seb128> micahg, chrisccoulson: if stopping tb releases it then it seems that tb keeps an active grab
<pitti> mvo: it's meant to be put back, but as deprecated API; so at some point it will disappear
<seb128> pitti, did you see that davidz commented on the gvfs,loop mounting bug saying there were perhaps 2 bugs in there?
<pitti> seb128: I saw that, yes; I was hoping to get a confirmation on the Ubuntu bug that we are really talking about the same bug
<seb128> pitti, ah right, I did a ping on launchpad then ;-)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<mvo> pitti: ok, thanks, I have a look at this then
<pitti> mvo: I had an intial attempt for a backwards compat patch, but it doesn't work for many kinds of classes
<pitti> since then I didn't find time to get back to this
<pitti> presumably I'll revert the removal of it and add a g_warning() to it
<pitti> and we'll remove it in GNOME 3.8
<mvo> pitti: ok, thanks
<pitti> mvo: done now
<rickspencer3> seb128, was there an SRU for nautilus lately?
<seb128> rickspencer3, we got one to -updates a week ago and a new SRU candidate in proposed the same day
<seb128> rickspencer3, any issue?
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, nautilus just crashed on me on 12.04
<rickspencer3> but if there was not update ...
<rickspencer3> nothing really to see here
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> whoopsie-daisey will let you know if there is a problem ;)
<seb128> rickspencer3, yeah, I doubt it's due to an update, you just likely hit one not-so-new bug
<seb128> rickspencer3, right
<seb128> rickspencer3, what were you doing when the issue happened?
<rickspencer3> renaming a newly created directory
<seb128> rickspencer3, I've seen report suggesting issues around that in the past :-(
<rickspencer3> I'm sure it will be fixed in the next SRU ;)
<seb128> rickspencer3, could be bug #985848
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 985848 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in icon_rename_ended_cb()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985848
<rickspencer3> exactly
<seb128> rickspencer3, that one is ranked 11 on the nautilus bugs on errors.ubuntu.com with a frequency of 73
<rickspencer3> there you go
<seb128> I hope we get to it at some point
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks for point it ;-)
<rickspencer3> after the SRU, we should see if the crash stops getting reported
<rickspencer3> will be a good test of whoopsie-daisy
<mitya57> hi everybody,
<mitya57> is there any reason for still having revert_git_* patches in g-c-c and g-s-d?
<aquarius> pitti, ping - does apport only have a CLI interface (ubuntu-bug) and not a (trivial) GUI interface (dash -> File A Bug -> enter package name in a zenity popup) from deliberate policy (filing bugs is technical, thus terminal-only) or because no-one's had a chance to make a simple GUI handler?
<pitti> aquarius: actually we have had a GUI for this until precise
<pitti> Help -> Report a bug..
<aquarius> pitti, yep, that's perfect for GUI programs (and I know it's gone away now), but it's harder for "ubuntu-bug linux", for example :)
<pitti> achiang: we also used to have that, but quickly tore it down
<pitti> we got a massive increase in absolutely useless and misassigned bugs
<seb128> mitya57, the same reason we added them to start?
<aquarius> pitti, no problem; it's policy to not have such a tool, which is fine with me. I was debating writing a quick one, but figured that you might not have it by decision rather than by lack of resources, which is in fact the case :)
<mitya57> seb128: we added them because we wanted the new version but were in UIF, didn't we?
<pitti> aquarius: right
<mitya57> s/UIF/FF/
<pitti> aquarius: the compromise that we found was bearable was to call ubuntu-bug without arguments
<seb128> mitya57, no, we added them because compiz still uses gconf and not gsettings and because we don't use systemd and don't have their datetimed service
<seb128> mitya57, neither of those assumptions changed
<seb128> mitya57, though the compiz on gsettings update is being worked on this week
<aquarius> pitti, cool, I didn't know about that :)
<mitya57> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> aquarius, we don't lack bugs reports and we don't need to make bugs easier to file ;-)
 * aquarius grins
<seb128> mitya57, did you ask for a reason? i.e are they creating any issue?
<aquarius> seb128, I did wonder if that was the case, which is why I asked rather than saying "here is a gui thing!" :-)
<mitya57> seb128: no, just wondering
<seb128> mitya57, btw https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa has g-s-d and g-c-c with the gconf->gsettings reverts dropped if you want to test it
<mitya57> seb128: I'll test that when I'll update my quantal WM to the latest quantal :)
<xclaesse> will Quantal have EDS 3.5 with the new storage format?
<seb128> xclaesse, not decided yet but it's likely yes
<seb128> xclaesse, do you need it or do you recommend against it? ;-)
<xclaesse> seb128, we definitely need it for Folks
<xclaesse> master is already ported to the new API
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let's see how that goes
<xclaesse> seb128, cool :)Ã 
<xclaesse> seb128, the problem is that once the format is migrated, you can't go back
<xclaesse> which is problematic for testing :p
<seb128> right, well going backward in versions is an issue for distros in any case
<seb128> but we tend to not jump on such transitions, especially for evolution which has a record of making those bumpy for a while
<seb128> so it might take some weeks before we get the new version of e-d-s
<xclaesse> seb128, I was planning to upgrade to quantal once it has the newer EDS, so I can use latest folks again :p
<seb128> xclaesse, we will let you know when that happens ;-)
<xclaesse> even when building newer EDS in jhbuild, it will migrate your DB and you're screwed
<xclaesse> seb128, thanks :)
 * achiang waves to pitti :)
<pitti> hey achiang
<pitti> achiang: argh, tab failure, sorry :)
<achiang> pitti: np. my error checker fixed it. but it's been a while since i said "hi" anyway. :)
<pitti> achiang: indeed, how are you these days?
<achiang> pitti: a bit tired. in korea for work, the taxi drivers decided to have a national strike today. so i got to explore the korean bus and metro system to get where i needed to go. 2 hours later, i am back from the customer site back to hotel
<pitti> achiang: argh; consider it a real-life sightseeing tour?
<achiang> pitti: "forced" tourism... sounds kinda funny. :) wie gehts?
<pitti> achiang: quite well, thanks; I'm getting into my new QA role, and making some progress
<achiang> pitti: good to hear! you sounded quite excited in your blog post so i think we're all excited by proxy. :)
<pitti> lol
<pitti> I'm keeping a record on G+ (quite nice, and QA team policy anyway0
<achiang> :)
<achiang> ok, time to write a few status emails and then perhaps... bed
<achiang> cheers, pitti
<popey> chrisccoulson, did you know enigmail is broken in quantal?
<chrisccoulson> popey, yeah :)
<seb128> micahg, how is the tb debugging going?
<micahg> seb128: hrm, I thought chrisccoulson was going to do that :(
<seb128> micahg, he said he can't reproduce the issue
<seb128> micahg, I fear you will have to do it
<seb128> micahg, he has also other stuff to work on for quantal...
<seb128> micahg, let we know if we can help on specific topics, but it doesn't seem we are in a position to just do the debugging and resolve the issue for you there
<micahg> seb128: awesome, ok, I guess I'll look into this further when I start later today
<seb128> micahg, ok, thanks, let us know how it goes
 * micahg wonders if he missed scrollback somewhere
<seb128> micahg, well, scrollback never said chrisccoulson was going to work on,fix that issue either ;-)
<seb128> micahg, but I did chat with him out of the channel and we can't reproduce the issue which makes it hard to work on it
<mterry> mvo, darn, I was hoping you had been hiding some amazing UI driving framework that you had been too lazy to use.  :-/
<mterry> mvo, the best I've used is ldtp, but it's very rickety
<mvo> mterry: yeah, excatly, I wasn't overly impressed with that one :/
<mterry> mvo, well, I'm happy to write various tests, but since doing so might involve various code changes (for instrumentation) and since code is moving around a lot in my branches, would you mind if I did a big test branch after all these intermediate branches land?  (ala the indentation one)
<mvo> mterry: that is fine with me (for the given reasons)
<mterry> mvo, cool, I'll comment on the merge request page saying that's my plan
<mvo> ta
<xclaesse> seb128, I just released telepathy-gabble 0.16.1 stable release, I would appreciate if that can make its way into ubuntu precise
<xclaesse> seb128, it fix issue connecting to MSN's xmpp server
<xclaesse> that just regressed last week because of a change on their server
<xclaesse> details: http://blogs.gnome.org/xclaesse/2012/06/20/problems-with-windows-lives-xmpp-server/
<seb128> xclaesse, thanks for the notice, we will SRU that
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ did you see bug reports about that?
<seb128> kenvandine, did you want me to have a look to that SRU?
<kenvandine> i hadn't seen a bug about that... but that doesn't mean we didn't get a new one
<kenvandine> seb128, if you could please :)
<kenvandine> i couldn't do it today
<xclaesse> thanks Ã§
<xclaesse> !
<xclaesse> we got upstream reports
<xclaesse> dunno about lp
<xclaesse> there are over 10k users of that, so surely a lot of people noticed it
<xclaesse> btw, it went from ~1000 to ~9000 just in a few days after LTS release :D
<seb128> xclaesse, ;-)
<xclaesse> compared to fedora's release almost unoticed in the chart :p
<seb128> xclaesse, I will check our bug reports, I just want one to attach to the SRU (we need a bug for tracking purposes)
<seb128> kenvandine, no worry, I will do it
<kenvandine> seb128, you rock!
<seb128> Laney, ping https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1011361 ;-)
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1011361 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] libpwquality" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<seb128> Laney, I saw robert_ancell uploaded it, it's in quantal NEW queue
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I think it would be good to put it in exp, but I'm not sure I want to be uploader ;-)
<seb128> Laney, start by putting it in the pkg-gnome svn? ;;-)
 * Laney checks if Robert is a member there
<Laney> using SVN scares me these days, all of the actions being pushed out immediately
<seb128> Laney, he is a member of pkg-gnome, I dropped him an email about the topic but he didn't seem interested
<seb128> Laney, he mentioned "the ridiculous amount of Debian paperwork for new packages"
<Laney> one bug?
 * Laney will look at it then
<seb128> Laney, though he discussed with mbiebl apparently who said the package seemed to be fine
<seb128> just commit it to the svn and as a base for whoever will be wanting to pick that up ;-)
<Laney> sure
<seb128> Laney, one bug, well apparently he failed to open this one
<Laney> I would have to review it for ubuntuisms though
<seb128> thanks for the ridiculous bts email system :p
<Laney> which is why I'd rather he did it, as he'd know
<seb128> Laney, I doubt there is any, I reviewed it quickly, it seems fine
<Laney> ok, will do
<mbiebl> Laney, seb128: didn't have time really to look at libpwquality as I had other stuff on the todo list and
<mbiebl> libpwquality being 3.5 was a low prio
<Laney> it's ok, not a high priority indeed
<Laney> I'll maybe put it in exp
<mbiebl> I think I made a few quick remarks regardign the location of the pam modules
<mbiebl> which was wrong /usr/lib/security iirc
<Laney> mbiebl: you mean it should be in a multiarch path?
<mbiebl> Laney: they usually go to /lib/security or /lib/$(MA)/security
<Laney> yeah, looks (from the .install file) like this is going to /lib/security
<Laney> laney@raleigh> head libpam-pwquality.install                                                                                                                                  ~/temp/libpwquality-1.1.0/debian
<mbiebl> ok, then robert has fixed this already
<Laney> lib/security/*.so
<Laney> cool
<bryceh> RAOF, TheMuso, robert_ancell: we missed our meeting time yesterday, but I'm assuming no one had agenda items?
<RAOF> Correct.
<robert_ancell> bryceh, yep
<TheMuso> Correct.
<bryceh> great, thanks
<TheMuso> /c/c
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-21
<pitti> Good morning
<bschaefer> hello, has anyone been having a problem with gdb and unity/compiz?
<bschaefer> and gdb seg faulting from setting a break point?
<veebers> heh, I ask the same question as bschaefer :)
<bschaefer> example: "b LauncherController.cpp:200"
<robert_ancell> RAOF, can you get new packages out of the NEW queue?
<RAOF> Nope, not an archive admin.
<RAOF> Sorry.
<robert_ancell> hmm, who is a local archive admin...
<RAOF> But there *are* to AAs who have been active in #ubuntu-release in the last 10 minutes or so âº
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks! how about you?
<seb128> pitti, I'm good thanks!
<didrocks> bonjour bonjour :)
<seb128> didrocks, salut!
<seb128> didrocks, how is London? how is the sprint going?
<seb128> didrocks, how close are we to see a SRU or quantal upload? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: London is londonish again
<didrocks> seb128: meaning rain :)
<sil2100> Huush hush
<seb128> hehe
<didrocks> SRU, sil2100 is testing today the SRU packages
<seb128> we got the sun back here :p
<didrocks> we need to know if the bamf test failing was intended or not
<didrocks> (like flacky or not)
<sil2100> seb128: you stole our sun now didn't you?!
<seb128> didrocks, sil2100: if you guys have a ppa, I'm still on precise and happy to install the candidates as well
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, sil2100 has it
<seb128> sil2100, heh, let's put things back in the right order, the weather you got is the one London is supposed to have, it's you guys who have been stealing our sun for 3 days
<sil2100> seb128: ppa:sil2100/ppa
<sil2100> :(
<didrocks> seb128: no compiz upload to quantal though
<didrocks> seb128: as we still experience some crashes
<didrocks> and dx upstream seems to have other priorities
<didrocks> same with gsettings, got emails telling it's not a priority for them right now
<seb128> didrocks, ok :-(
<didrocks> I'm quite unhappy
<sil2100> seb128: I've uploaded compiz, libunity and bamf to this PPA
<didrocks> especially that we discussed it about Tim
<didrocks> and it was "ok ok"
<seb128> sil2100, cool, I will give them a run
<sil2100> seb128: we're still waiting on BAMF though, since the merger encounter a problem with one of the tests
<sil2100> seb128: so I'm waiting for Trevinho to look at that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> sil2100, but you just said it's in the ppa?
<seb128> sil2100, you merged the patches in your version?
<didrocks> seb128: he did :)
<sil2100> seb128: yes, I cherry-picked them and pushed to a PPA for now
<sil2100> seb128: but it's not the final version, since we need to get one of the patches fixed
<sil2100> seb128: for bamf of course
<seb128> right
<seb128> didrocks, sil2100: thanks, I will give the ppa a try
<didrocks> seb128: keep us in touch
<seb128> will do
<popey> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/608701
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 608701 in vino "vino establishes a HTTP connection to check connectivity" [Low,Fix released]
<seb128> popey, hey, what about this bug?
<popey> seb128, i was just discussing it with didrocks here...
<seb128> popey, isn't it fixed since oneiric?
<popey> vino makes an xmlrpc call out to two servers owned by upstream devs
<seb128> popey, is it still doing that?
<popey> I don't see how it's fixed, the current source has it
 * popey looks further
<seb128> popey, dunno, see cyphermox's comment #12
<popey> yeah, i am trying to figure out how it was dropped
<popey> or whether we have regressed
<popey> because the webservices are still specified in capplet/webservices
<popey> and the webservices file mentions that the php file called at the remote end is also included in the source tarball, which it isnt
<popey> didrocks says it's in upstream git, not the tarball
<popey> I'd rather we had that php on one of our own servers, rather than upstream ones
<didrocks> I know, we should put that on a popey's box!
<popey> \o/
 * popey files an RT
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> popey, that was discussed by then but I think people didn't like the idea
<popey> I don't like the idea of random 3rd party sites knowing which ubuntu users have port 5900 open
<popey> especially as those domains could expire, and expose us to a security issue letting randoms connect to our customer vnc ports
<seb128> popey, right, that's not supposed to happen, cf cyphermox's comment
<seb128> popey, how did you check the issue?
<seb128> i.e what do you do and when is it contacting the service?
<jibel> seb128, I added a testcase for bug 1015497
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015497 in gtk+3.0 "Cannot select gtk dropdown list value in multiple applications: ubiquity, landscape client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015497
<seb128> jibel, thanks
<popey> seb128, i confirmed it with tcpdump
<seb128> popey, reopen the bug I guess then?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1052301/
<popey> yeah
<chrisccoulson> oh, i guess bug 1015497 is why i couldn't change base in gcalctool yesterday. i thought i'd broken something locally ;)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015497 in gtk+3.0 "Cannot select gtk dropdown list value in multiple applications: ubiquity, landscape client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015497
<seb128> chrisccoulson, gtk 3.5 fallback I guess ;-)
<seb128> popey, I think the comment was based on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596190#c4
<ubot2> Gnome bug 596190 in Preferences Dialog "Misleading message about reachability from public network" [Critical,New]
<seb128> popey, maybe they added it back since
<seb128> popey, didrocks: reading the IRC log from by then, mdeslaur and others didn't think having a file hosted at canonical.com would be a good idea either
<seb128> popey, didrocks: that could be perceived are us sneaking infos from users or something
<popey> hah
<popey> I'd rather we got that info than a domain squatter
<seb128> popey, right, or we can try to think further and try to figure a way where nobody gets infos from users? ;-)
<popey> fair comment
<seb128> popey, worth case just disable the "check if online" thing
<seb128> it's not that useful?
<popey> I guess it's useful for our target users
<popey> people who don't know port forwarding from a hole in the ground
<BigWhale> A lot of fuss on twitter about Canonical using QML/Qt for all their future applications. Is this also Ubuntu related?
<seb128> BigWhale, it's only one of the platform available, Ubuntu doesn't force you to use anything and most of our applications are GTK based
<BigWhale> seb128, yeah, I was just wondering what is this all about. :) I wonder how many will pick it up as: "omg wtf, canonical is ditching gtk!" :)
<seb128> BigWhale, I didn't follow whatever happened that recently started those tweets etc, but Qt has been pushed as a first class citizen platform for some time in Ubuntu, we got it on the CD in Oneiric and there was Qt tracks at UDS
<seb128> BigWhale, it doesn't mean GTK doesn't remain a first class platform as well ;-)
<Laney> it's related as much as the choice of toolkit/libraries affects Ubuntu for any application ;-)
<topyli> BigWhale: canonical can use tcl/tk if they like, for their own apps. the ubuntu desktop is still based on gnome and i don't see that changing any time soon. canonical is not ubuntu
<seb128> sil2100, didrocks: libunity SRU fails verification (i.e the command in the bug still segfaults)
<seb128> sil2100, didrocks: otherwise I didn't spot anything weird or regression so far
<sil2100> seb128: ouch, thanks - will look into that
<didrocks> where is mhr3? :)
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for keeping us up to date
<seb128> didrocks, yw
<chrisccoulson> hah, awesome - https://github.com/alevchuk/vim-clutch
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
<pitti> haha, great
<Chipaca> hey guys. I just realized twinkle (the only sip telephony client that worked for long calls) is no longer in the archive. Any idea why?
<jpds> Chipaca: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/twinkle/+publishinghistory
<Chipaca> crumbs
<Chipaca> jpds: any recommended replacement?
<jpds> Chipaca: Do you have an Android phone?
<Chipaca> jpds: i do
<jpds> Chipaca: It probably has built-in SIP capabilities.
<Chipaca> jpds: it does
 * Chipaca sets it up
<jpds> That's what I've been using for months.
<Chipaca> it does feel a lot like not winning
<jpds> Chipaca: Feel free to call me if you want to test.
<Chipaca> jpds: i've got a conf call starting 4 minutes ago, i'll test 'live'
<Chipaca> jpds: how do i actually initiate a call over sip?
<jpds> Chipaca: Dial the number, and it'll give you the option to go via GSM/VOIP.
<Chipaca> jpds: nope, just skype vs phone
<jpds> Chipaca: Select phone and then the option might appear?
<Chipaca> ah, 'ask for each call' i guess is needed
<Chipaca> \o/
<Chipaca> jpds: thanks a ton
<jpds> Chipaca: Anytime.
 * mpt wonders why we let people opt in to backports while opting out of security updates
<mpt> ... or opt in to -proposed updates while opting out of recommended updates ...
<ogra_> -proposed is for testing, packages *can* be broken in there
<mpt> yes
<ogra_> preferably users should only enable it when asked to test a fix
<mpt> I'm tempted to kick -proposed out of the GUI altogether
<mpt> but probably won't
<ogra_> that will make testing harder though
<mpt> It's a beta-testing checkbox
<ogra_> but the text should be rephrased :)
<seb128> mpt, we maybe need an separate package for "contributors"
<ogra_> "test fixes" or some such would make more clear what it does
<seb128> mpt, i.e ask those people to install a package which has a dialog which gives the option for stuff like proposed, dbgsym, popcon, etc
<mpt> seb128, like the indicator replacement for launchpad-integration ... as well as easily reporting bugs etc, you could easily opt in to -proposed updates
<mpt> ooh yes, dbgsym too
<seb128> mpt, right
<seb128> mpt, like a power users set ;-)
<ogra_> ++
<seb128> sort of ubuntu-tweaks in spirit
<popey> and allow bug reporting in the non-dev release
<mpt> And maybe even pre-release versions could ship it by default, while release versions don't
<seb128> right
<mlankhorst> for some reason -security wasn't able by default here :s
<seb128> mlankhorst, how did you install?
<popey> i see a number of expert people complain that whoopsie makes it _harder_ for them to file real bugs and not error reports
<kenvandine> that's a great idea
<mpt> mlankhorst, for any setting that exists, some percentage of users will twiddle it by mistake :-)
<mlankhorst> mpt: which is why defaults should be sane
<mlankhorst> :P
<mpt> popey, yeah, I've mentioned to ev the idea of a "contributor mode" for whoopsie
<mpt> mlankhorst, defaults are irrelevant to that problem
<mpt> (though, yes, defaults should be sane)
<seb128> mlankhorst, well, if security was not enabled for you that's a bug
<mpt> mlankhorst, oh, I misunderstood you. You think it was off by default. I'm guessing it was on by default but got twiddled off by mistake.
<mpt> hm
<mpt> Is there an easy way to see the complete list of -backports that have been issued for, say, Ubuntu 11.10?
<mpt> Found it: http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric-backports/allpackages
<dpm> kenvandine, cool, yeah, I had to change the permissions to let you edit pages on d.u.c, you should be good to go now. I've been doing some edits to the tutorial and I've just tested the SRU from -proposed, which seems to be working well :)
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> i am adding an introduction now
<kenvandine> and will add a comment about the version required
<kenvandine> anything else you see that it needs?
<mlankhorst> mpt: not 100% sure, I think the install was choking on something which caused me to have to do some custom install, but can't remember exactly. Might also have been due to debootstrap not enabling anything but main :s
<dpm> kenvandine, yes, the exact list of packages that need to be installed. Also something else, but rather a topic for discussion. Right now the advanced example is about modifying a gedit plugin, which will require people to install it, modify it, etc. This is not something every new developer can do. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier find an easier step-by-step example. Or at least put all the detailed steps on how to download, install and modify t
<dpm> he gedit plugin
<kenvandine> dpm, yeah... well i tried to find an app that people likely already have
<kenvandine> but could find one that was python already that made sense to add sharing
<kenvandine> although the gedit plugin is really simple to install and edit
<kenvandine> i guess i should mention where to put the file
<dpm> yes, the idea of those tutorials is that developers don't need to figure out stuff for themselves. I'm wondering if it would make sense to create a small quickly app and embed the gwibber widget to it
<kenvandine> dpm,  the simple example might serve that purpose
<kenvandine> the gedit example was to add the functionality to something that already exists
<kenvandine> dpm, however... after the app challenge we could probably take one of the apps from the challenge and put it into the tutorial :)
<dpm> kenvandine, sure, it's a good idea :), but let's concentrate on finishing what we've got now. Let's go for the Gedit plugin for now. If you could add the note about -proposed, the list of packages required to install and add the detailed steps to edit and install the plugin, I think we should be good to go and publish the tutorial tomorrow
<kenvandine> can we publish it today?
<kenvandine> i've been getting people asking for it over twitter :)
<kenvandine> dpm, ^^
<dpm> kenvandine, absolutely! I've been editing so that it's ready and only the final content needs to be added, so once you've added that content, we're good to go
<kenvandine> almost done :)
<dpm> excellent :)
<kenvandine> dpm, can you take a look at it now?
<pitti> mterry: many thanks for the codespeak-lib fix!
<jbicha_> Sweetshark: are you waiting to upload LO 3.5.4 to quantal until after the sru gets figured out?
<mterry> pitti, yw!
<pitti> mterry: jibel just enabled XS-Testsuite parsing in jenkins today, so this should actually appear soon
<mterry> pitti, fun to play with new DEPs
<jbicha_> I'm asking because libreoffice-evolution is uninstallable until it gets rebuilt against e-d-s
<seb128> jbicha_, we are aiming to get 3.6 beta1 to quantal, not 3.5
<jbicha_> oh ok
<seb128> jbicha_, but that's pending getting libreoffice to build on the q toolchain
<dpm> kenvandine, looking...
<Sweetshark> jbicha_: Im going directly for 3.6.x for quantal
<kenvandine> dpm, and don't forget about the category
<dpm> kenvandine, looking good, I need to run for lunch, but I'll come back to it later. In the meantime, do you think you could put bzr and pastebinit in the requirements section?
<dpm> kenvandine, good point, I'll make sure I create the social networking category
<kenvandine> maybe not bzr... isn't that already assumed for this audience?
<dpm> kenvandine, assume the audience knows nothing if they are new developers
<kenvandine> dpm, done
<kenvandine> enjoy your lunch :)
<dpm> so for example rather than 'do a checkout', I'd put the exact step: 'Check out the code with bzr branch lp:gedit-pastebinit' and so and so
<dpm> Anyway, let's have a chat later on, thanks ;)
<kelemengabor> pitti: hi, got some time for Precise language packs? I have just updated them from the PPA, this time they are there :)
<pitti> kelemengabor: running copy to -proposed
<kelemengabor> thanks!
<pitti> hm, still complains a lot about "no newer version"
<pitti> kelemengabor: ah, there are only updates for some languages; I'll copy thhem
<kelemengabor> pitti: no idea why is that. I just saw that the few languages I have installed were updated (da, de, fi, en, es, fr, hu, sl)
<seb128> dobey, hey, do you plan to SRU to precise some of the ubuntu-sso-client bugs fixed recently in quantal?
<dobey> seb128: yes
<seb128> dobey, great, thanks
<tremolux> didrocks: hello! here's that MP from Bilal for the Precise SRU fix for Unity integration stuff we talked about the other day: https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/5.0series-sru-software-center-integration-fixes/+merge/110214
<tremolux> didrocks: do you think this can be reviewed and merged for the next Unity SRU?
<didrocks> hey tremolux :)
<didrocks> tremolux: does it have tests?
<tremolux> heyo didrocks!
<didrocks> tremolux: last time I checked, it didn't
<didrocks> and I asked by email and on the MR to have some :)
<didrocks> especiallly as this thing seems fragile and breaking a lot
<didrocks> I think I talked to mvo about it
<tremolux> didrocks: oh, there's no mention in this MP about needing tests, I think there is a branch targeted for Q where it's mentioned maybe?
<didrocks> tremolux: right, the rule for Q and P are the same :)
<cyphermox> seb128: so for vino; seems like the actual text stuff has not shown up in a long while AFAICT, but the url test is still being done...
<seb128> cyphermox, can we drop that?
<cyphermox> yeah
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<tremolux> didrocks: ok, this one needs a comment about what is still required, do you mind adding that?
<cyphermox> I'll figure out how to get rid of it for good
<tremolux> didrocks: just so we define exactly what is expected
<didrocks> tremolux: ok
<tremolux> didrocks: the crucial point is that I have a corresponding branch on the software-center side that fixes 5 high-target bugs with this feature
<tremolux> didrocks: thanks!! I appreciate your help, as always
<tremolux> didrocks: including purchased items not being added to the launcher, uninstalled items not being removed from the launcher as the two biggest ones
 * didrocks commented :)
<didrocks> tremolux: you're really welcomed ;)
<tremolux> didrocks: :)
<didrocks> tremolux: nice!
<didrocks> can't wait to get it
<tremolux> haha, me too!!
<didrocks> but I really mandate tests for it as the test coverage it had seemed to be quite poor :)
<didrocks> sil2100: btw, you probably want to track this ^
<tremolux> didrocks: right, the regressions of the basic operation of the feature came right at the end of the cycle, ideally tests would have caught that
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> there are some tests, I was thinking they were stronger
<tremolux> didrocks: my fix removes a great deal of the responsibility on the launcher side of things by adding the item at the very end of the install of the package, but the spec (and good usability) really want the dbus event to the launcher (and so the animation and adding) to happen right at the very start
<tremolux> didrocks: this will require that bug #1011681 be fixed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1011681 in unity "Have Unity monitor and react to all installation events" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011681
<didrocks> waow
<didrocks> let's see how it goes
<didrocks> but I still find this feature dangerous
<didrocks> it created a lot of bugs
<tremolux> didrocks: will, we've had the feature for many releases already actually
<tremolux> didrocks: without bugs
<didrocks> one of them being that it screwed the display on some card :/
<didrocks> yeah, without the flying icon
<tremolux> didrocks: this cycle is where all the problems happened
<didrocks> I remember, I did the unity side before this cycle :)
<tremolux> didrocks: yes, indeed, I remember
<tremolux> didrocks: I think bilal did a lot of it before too, no?
<didrocks> tremolux: hum, I don't remember, maybe the progress icon (I was thinking it was this cycle)
<tremolux> didrocks: it was the adding of the animation and the showing of progress this cycle, but both of those worked quite nicely earlier in the cycle and then broke at the end
<tremolux> didrocks: with the exception of the display issue, of course!  :)
<didrocks> indeed :)
<didrocks> but it showed by then that the tests were not enough though :/
<tremolux> didrocks: yes
<tremolux> didrocks: but to be fair, tests can always be improved/iterated, it's ongoing, but for this specific feature we now know better what we need them to check for sure
<didrocks> tremolux: indeed, hence the fact it's time to fix it and add the new tests before getting anything landing :)
<cyphermox> seb128: popey: so the intent is that the message was disabled upstream because it wasn't checking ipv6, thus misleading people into thinking that their machine is not reachable from outside when it could be reachable using IPv6; it's just that it's been disabled "wrong", only updating the message was disabled, not doing the check altogether
<tremolux> didrocks: oops, I have a meeting in 3, gotta run, thanks again and talk to you soon eh!
<didrocks> tremolux: talk to you soon!
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, seems an easy fix then?
<cyphermox> yup yup
<cyphermox> shuffling code around, will upload in a minute
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> cyphermox, can you SRU it as well for precise?
<cyphermox> yes
<tremolux> seb128: hello! we have had two reports not of a weird graphical corruption in the Software Center toolbar on Quantal, I wondered if you had any ideas about this or heard about it with other applications? it is bug 1015216
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015216 in software-center "Graphical corruption in software center" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015216
<tremolux> two reports *now*
<tremolux> seb128: there is a screenshot there
<tremolux> seb128: I can't repro this one
<tremolux> ah, I shouldn't have pinged seb128 directly, do any of you awesome desktoppers have an idea about this one?
<seb128> tremolux, hey
<tremolux> hi seb128!
<seb128> tremolux, is that specific to quantal?
<tremolux> seb128: yes
<tremolux> seb128: only two reports of it so far, both Q
<seb128> tremolux, it's probably not a s-c issue, seems rather video drivers, cairo, gtk...
<tremolux> seb128: right
<tremolux> seb128: I was wondering if this is showing up in other apps, or is known at this point?
<seb128> tremolux, I've seen not report of that issue so far and it's not know afaik
<tremolux> seb128: ok, thanks! But it's good, it's on our radar now, I'll track this issue for Software Center
<seb128> tremolux, having a testcase would be useful ... is the toolbar stock gtk or do you hack it in some way?
<tremolux> seb128: it's a custom widget  :/
<seb128> tremolux, that might explain why it's happening only there
<seb128> tremolux, if you could get that down to a testcase or have one of the s-c tests showing the issue it would be good
<tremolux> seb128: indeed, yes, I can't repro on my machine which is why I wonder if it's a hardware-specific sort of issue
<tremolux> seb128: drivers, etc.
<tremolux> seb128: I'll try to collect more info
<popey> tremolux, cant reproduce here on ATI or intel
<tremolux> popey: thanks! ok, good to know
<tremolux> seb128: the dupe bug 1015986 mentions some interaction with other apps
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015986 in software-center "text/icon corruption when running software center (dup-of: 1015216)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015986
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015216 in software-center "Graphical corruption in software center" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015216
<tremolux> "I'm not sure that this is actually a bug on software-center; but it certainly seems to be worst affected and triggers a similar issue in xchat-gnome and the apport-bug collection window."
<tremolux> seb128: thanks again, I'll try to get more info and meanwhile you know about it too in case it pops up in other places :)
<Laney> I got something like that the other day on a terminal
<tremolux> Laney: do you see it in Software Center? just mouse over one of the toolbar icons
<Laney> tremolux: can't tell you now, not on a Quantal machine
<tremolux> Laney: ah, ok! :)
<Laney> but it was intermittent when I saw it, ie it came and went
<Laney> I'll have a look in a bit
<tremolux> Laney: thanks!
<Laney> someone else posted a screenshot in here of something similar too
<Laney> ah, it was hrw in #ubuntu-devel
<Laney> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/shots/bad-fonts.jpg
<Laney> that looks like what I get when it happens
<Laney> tremolux: seb128:
<tremolux> Laney: woahh
<Laney> not sure if that could be part of the same problem
<tremolux> Laney: I see him over there, I'll ask if he might check Software Center for me..thanks!!
<Laney> groovy
<tremolux> :)
<Laney> but like I said it's intermittent so maybe you won't see it this time
<Laney> mlankhorst: ^ do you think this kind of thing would be likely to be a driver issue?
<mlankhorst> Laney: quantal?
<Laney> yeah
<mlankhorst> probably, what video card do you have?
<Laney> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Radeon X1950 GT (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
<Laney> dunno what hrw has
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1015216 has
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1015216 in software-center "Graphical corruption in software center" [Low,Confirmed]
<seb128> 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Wrestler [Radeon HD 6310] [1002:9802] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
<mlankhorst> so amd
<mlankhorst> binary drivers or open source?
<Laney> free ones
<mlankhorst> not sure if they've been updated yet, you could try the debian sid ones which are almost identical. :)
<Sarvatt> oh ati hasnt been updated in quantal to work with cairo 1.12 yet
<mlankhorst> would probably need to rebuild them since they use x1.12
<mlankhorst> Sarvatt: yeah thought so
<Laney> http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xserver-xorg-video-ati.html ?
<mlankhorst> Laney: should work
<Laney> but it has a lower version than ours?
<Sarvatt> yeah we're going to have to do a git checkout, they version it weird
<Sarvatt> master is 6.14.99, they lower the version, release, raise it back to .99 every time
<mlankhorst> oh that explain :)
<Laney> sounds totally logical and sane
 * Laney starts a build
<mlankhorst> I just knew it wasn't lower due to having worked with the x git tree directly
<mlankhorst> oh btw anyone here affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/966744 ?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 966744 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Resume from suspend leaves me with black screen or a screen of the desktop before it suspended (though the mouse still moves/changes cursor)" [Critical,Incomplete]
<mlankhorst> I need a test subject/victim :P
<Laney> the bug reporter?
<mlankhorst> I may have found the same bug today independently, when valgrinding Xorg suspend/resume for unrelated bug.
<seb128> mlankhorst, Laney, tremolux: <hrw> seb128: radeon 5430 with open driver
<seb128> so that's 3 ati users
<Laney> ack
<Laney> i'm testing the debian drivers now, will report if i do see it
<mlankhorst> seb128: no surprises there, all open source drivers didn't handle it right
<mlankhorst> nouveau had the same problems, made worse by abi bump :)
<mlankhorst> Laney: ping me then, im gone for biking
<Laney> i don't know how to trigger it
<Laney> so if I /do not/ ping you then assume all is well :-)
<mlankhorst> sure
<Laney> mlankhorst: hrw says it fixes it for him, and he could reproduce easier than me
<mlankhorst> Laney: kk perfect
 * Laney looks forward to a new upload :-)
<mlankhorst> I'll ask if we can upload ati early
<seb128> jdstrand, mdeslaur: hey, is apparmor known to be an issue for nfs users? do they need to weak config? e.g bug #1016103
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1016103 in evince "evince unable to save changes to toolbar" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016103
<jdstrand> seb128: nfs should not be a problem. this seems like the user just needs to update /etc/apparmor.d/tunables/home.d/ubuntu
<jdstrand> seb128: eg '@{HOMEDIRS}+=/homes/'
<seb128> jdstrand, is that a faq, or described somewhere? I didn't see nfs mentioned on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor
<jdstrand> seb128: it isn't in a faq cause nfs isn't a problem like with selinux ;)
<jdstrand> there is something on the tunable though
 * jdstrand fetches
<seb128> jdstrand, well if users need to edit their etc config that seems like a faq topic? ;-)
<seb128> jdstrand, I don't know enough about apparmor, but is there any way we could print on stdout some warning when apparmor block something for the running app?
<jdstrand> seb128: awell, postinst has logic to detect nonstandard homes
<jdstrand> seb128: re reporting> not really, the kernel is just giving back EACCESS or similar. the application will usually complain about that, but doesn't know why it was denied access. we do have apparmor-notify which uses notify-osd to display errors
<jdstrand> the problem with that is the usability issues-- we don't want to be fedora with a dialog always asking to allow or deny something
<seb128> right
<jdstrand> we try to make the profiles work out of the box
<seb128> yeah, and they usually do
<seb128> so is this user having a non usual setup? or do nfs users need to do some config tweaks?
<jdstrand> I know there is something on the tunables somewhere...
<jdstrand> seb128: this user's HOME is /homes/dhe (as opposed to /home/dhe)
<seb128> oh
<jdstrand> it isn't nfs, it is an unusual location for HOME
<jdstrand> homes vs home
<seb128> I don't know enough about nfs to know the naming convention for home dirs on NFS ;-)
<jdstrand> well, there is none :)
<jdstrand> so we can't be too smart
<jdstrand> we try to detect it, but it doesn't always work depending on when the user was added
<seb128> I wonder if we could be a bit naggy about "your userdir doesn't follow the convention, it might create issues"
<jdstrand> (the tunable is preseedable though)
<seb128> like display a notification once on first login for such users
<seb128> if we know it's a setup that will confuse apparmor
<jdstrand> maybe. it is an unusual setup though- we rarely see these bugs any more after implemeting the debconf option and tunables/home.d
<jdstrand> I think I saw this... 3 times in the last year?
<jdstrand> I'm not opposed to be smarter about it-- I'm just not sure the best way
<jdstrand> seb128: aha, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor#Adjusting_Tunables
<jdstrand> seb128: not exactly the most discoverable location
<seb128> jdstrand, I've little visiblity on how frequent it is but if that's a rare corner case I'm fine just replying to the bug with a link to the wiki you pointed, thanks
<jdstrand> seb128: it was a big concern of mine for a while, then I implemented that and just haven't seen it often enough where it bothered me. people seem to recognize they if they are doing something non-standard, then they might have to tweak things here and there
<jdstrand> between preseeding and the postinst detection on install, it mostly covered things
<seb128> jdstrand, that makes sense, I guess the issue there is to find the way to the documentation
<jdstrand> seb128: yes-- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor is linked off https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor, but at the bottom
<jdstrand> I'm open to suggestions on where to put it...
<seb128> jdstrand, I was not looking for "debugging", but for "faq" ;-)
<jdstrand> ideally it would be wherever the documentation is for chaning ones HOME
<seb128> jdstrand, like users look for common,known issues, not for how to debug
<jdstrand> heh
<jdstrand> seb128: I'll add something to the FAQ section of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor
<seb128> jdstrand, thanks
<jdstrand> np
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<seb128> Sweetshark, libreoffice 3.5.4 SRU finally accepted after much SRU team nagging!
 * kenvandine thinks it's awesome having seb128 pulling .1 duty :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
 * Sweetshark gives seb128 a hug in absence.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, feel like doing a quick SRU?
<robert_ancell> This one may be annoying you too: bug 1016292
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1016292 in xchat-gnome "Doesn't return to maximized size when restarted" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016292
<RAOF> Heh, I use smuxi :P
<robert_ancell> RAOF, damn, I knew you were going to say something like that!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so, regardless of your irc preferences do you feel like turning the cogs of bureaucracy
<RAOF> Yup, just waiting for launchpad to generate the diff for me.
<robert_ancell> cheers!
<RAOF> Because I am lazy, like a chestnut.
<robert_ancell> I've never seen a chestnut do anything significant, so I'll accept that metaphor
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-22
<RAOF> robert_ancell: A meeting intervened, but you've got your xchat-gnome SRU :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yay!
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis
<RAOF> Oh, oh! It's a pitti! That means it must be past lunch time!
<TheMuso> yay for proposed being useful for such things as an X transition. :)
<RAOF> Hey, I'll even be able to do the quantal-proposed â quantal copy myself ;)
<TheMuso> Oh yeah that is a bonus.
<RAOF> â¦leaving only -ati, which I might do after I finish cleaning up the madness that is the xwayland support patch.
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey, how are you? happy friday!
<pitti> seb128: happy Friday to you, too!
<seb128> pitti, ready for tonight? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: one word: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hrTHkk7bLUA/T-HqmzR_FWI/AAAAAAAAApw/nfzupKC06zM/s903/fanauto.jpg :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I wonder what team that guy is supporting ;-)
<pitti> by now this car got even more stuff
<pitti> some garlands around the hub caps, for example
<pitti> it's usually parked on a nearby crossing during the week
<pitti> seb128: we'll go to a Beer garden again, or a pub, depending on the weather
<pitti> seb128: do you think you guys can hold up against Spain tomorrow?
<seb128> pitti, weather has been crap again here :-( yesterday was the "music fest" day and they just didn't get to do the bands playing outdoor
<seb128> too much rain,wind
<pitti> too bad
<pitti> we had nice summer weather again, just a thunderstorm in the night
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> pitti, well, they didn't hold the outdoor because of the thunderstorm which was announced, they said it was risky for the installations if there is too much wind
<seb128> pitti, @Spain: will be hard, but it's sport, you never know ;-) they might have a day off, or we might have a good day ;-)
<seb128> pitti, and if France loose I still have Germany to support ;-)
<pitti> seb128: haha; if we don't screw it up
<pitti> they will want revenge against Merkel, I figure :)
<seb128> pitti, joke aside my bet is on Germany this year, it's either you guys or Spain, and Spain already won 2 titles it would be good to have another team this time ;-)
<chrisccoulson> good morning
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, feel a bit like i've been hit by a bus this morning ;)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, still your cold? or did you do too much exercice? ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good, it's friday!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, still got this cold, and quite a headache this morning too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, :-(
<pitti> chrisccoulson: uh, get well soon then!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, stop drinking too much on thursday's night! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i wish it was because i'd been drinking :)
<chrisccoulson> i got a couple of nice bottles of beer for fathers day, which i haven't drank yet
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ;-)
<Sweetshark> jibel: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51324 <- upstreamed the first quantal testsuite bug
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 51324 in Presentation "crash in xmloff.Impress.XMLContentImporter::com::sun::star::document::XImporter" [Normal,New: ]
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<Sweetshark> jibel: I got a key for the qa machine, is there any tricks for getting in?
<Sweetshark> seb128: heya!
<Sweetshark> seb128: I hugged you in absence for the SRU news.
<seb128> Sweetshark, ;-)
<chrisccoulson> is anyone else using kvm?
<chrisccoulson> it seems to be completely broken here. i can't boot anything with it :(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I had issues with it and changed for virtualbox
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but I'm not on quantal yet
<seb128> virtualbox is nice though ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, maybe i'll have to try switching to virtualbox
<chrisccoulson> i can see today is going to be productive :/
<seb128> kvm is good to boot a CD iso but virtualbox has some nice ui and makes easy to add devices to the vm, etc
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, virtualbox seems to work here :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, welcome to the virtualbox users' club ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i have oracle software on my laptop. i feel dirty now
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you didn't have java installed? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hah
 * chrisccoulson hungry
<Chipaca> hey there. vlc (the qt gui) seems to be busted in Q, with the window apparently resizing to an infinite height thing -- known issue?
<seb128> Chipaca, not known but we don't really maintain vlc here
<seb128> Chipaca, so I'm not sure we would know about its issues
<Chipaca> right
<seb128> chrisccoulson, STEAK! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: you had oracle software installed since day one, sorry to break it to you
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: think: every software that ever was done by sun is now oracle software
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: that includes a lot of unix and tcp/ip plumbing
<chrisccoulson> Chipaca, thanks. i'm going to go and kill myself now ;)
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: grep -l "Sun Microsystems" /usr/share/doc/*/copyright
<seb128> we should just drop the sun java and use the google one :-p
<seb128> to teach them ;-)
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: one you might like to know about is GTK
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: and nautilus
<Chipaca> i should stop there
<seb128> Chipaca, well, they probably contributed patches but they for sure don't own those ;-)
<Chipaca> seb128: well, they hold copyright to them
<Chipaca> seb128: if that's not owning them, i don't know what it is
<Chipaca> s/what it is/what owning them is/
<seb128> Chipaca, owning 1% doesn't make you own the whole thing ;-)
<Chipaca> seb128: poteito, potahto
<Chipaca> seb128: i'll stop trolling, now
<seb128> Chipaca, it's friday after all ;-)
<Chipaca> yes, but nessita is coming
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> nessita, hey, happy friday ;-)
<nessita> hello everyone!
<nessita> hola Chipaca, seb128
<bigon> pitti: around? I've some consolekit questions
<jdstrand> sil2100: hi! would you mind looking at the patch to unity-2d in bug #1016386?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1016386 in unity-2d "Thunderbird drop downs still don't work in unity 2D" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016386
<pitti> hello bigon
<bigon> pitti: hello, I've some questions about CK, I saw your name several time related to it
<pitti> it's been a while I did anything with it, but what's up?
<bigon> 2 things, 1) I'm not sure debian (and I guess ubuntu) are using the pam_ck_connector properly
<bigon> for what I've understood it should only be used by login application (login, gdm,...)
<bigon> currently I think it's added to the common-session file
<pitti> right, so that it applies to "su"
<bigon> I saw you did the "nox11" patch to be able to add it in that file
<bigon> yeah
<pitti> it's not in common-session-noninteractive, to not fire for cron and the like
<bigon> so I'm not sure if it would releavant to modify the login-like services manually to add the call to it there
<pitti> you do to have the X11 display and active == True there
<bigon> well by manually I mean add it in the pam file of the service shipped by the pkg's instead of common-session
<bigon> so we could really control how this module is called
<pitti> it isn't?
<bigon> you mean?
<pitti> $ cat /etc/pam.d/lightdm|grep ck_con
<pitti> $
<bigon> ah
<bigon> common-session:sessionoptionalpam_ck_connector.so nox11
<pitti> well, it includes common-session of course
 * bigon cannot read
<pitti> so lightdm still loads it
<pitti> but I guess I misunderstood you
<bigon> true, but other non login services may also load it
<bigon> (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=677288 BTW)
<ubot2> Debian bug 677288 in libpam-runtime "libpam-runtime: Please add pam-auth-update support for loading module in login services" [Wishlist,Open]
<bigon> the thing is that pam_ck_connector required to be loaded after pam_loginuid
<sil2100> jdstrand: I'll try in a moment
<jdstrand> thanks!
<bigon> I'm trying to understand why that module has been added to the session-common instead of the individual pam service file
<bigon> (which looks more sensible to be)
<bigon> the two issue I see with it beiing in session-common are: 1) ordering issue with loginuid 2) it could start a new CK session when this is not inteded
<pitti> bigon: because those are conffiles
<pitti> which libpam-ck-connector cannot modify
<bigon> fedora solved this by using -session optional pam_ck_connector.so
<pitti> it can only update common-session{,-noninteractive} through pam-auth-update
<pitti> /usr/share/pam-configs/consolekit
<bigon> the - meaning that it doesn't fail if the module is not loaded (no loggin, nothing)
<bigon> logging
<pitti> hm, not sure whether pam-auth-update has a mode for this, to prepend a -
<pitti> that's a question for slangasek
<bigon> I've already discussed this a but with slangasek, the outcome was the bug 677288 in debian
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 677288 in linuxmint "Linux Mint freezes when connecting the wireless" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677288
<bigon> arf
<bigon> I justs wanted to know what was the rational of the call being in -common, I was a bit confused actually of when the module should be called
<pitti> it's mostly conffile vs. pam-auth-update managed
<bigon> yeah I see know
<pitti> we could drop the latter, but then woudl have to adjust the conffiles of eveyrthing in the archive which touches PAM sessions
<bigon> we might have to do that to add loginuid calls
<bigon> as said CK requires this too
<bigon> to set a proper "login-session-id" (see ck-list-sessions)
<bigon> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=676527 and all the bloking bugs
<ubot2> Debian bug 676527 in auditd "auditd package shouldn't add pam_loginuid.so in common-session(-interactive)" [Normal,Open]
<sil2100> jdstrand: so, on natty the previous fix was not enough? The one in -security?
<jdstrand> sil2100: that is correct
<dpm> hi kenvandine, I'll create the "Social Networking" page on d.u.c and then I think we're good to go to publish the tutorial. I've done a few edits and I've added 'Conclusion' and 'Learn more' sections to be consistent with the structure of other tutorials on the site. Would you mind adding a few words to the conclusion and seeing if there is anything else we might want to add to 'Learn more'?
<kenvandine> dpm, sure... i did tweak it a little more last night and i went ahead and published it :)
<kenvandine> so i could give the link to a couple people that have been asking
<dpm> kenvandine, sure, but the link will change once the social networking page is published, though. It will no longer be under multimedia/, but social-networking/ - you'll need to update them on that
<kenvandine> dpm, i changed the link too :)
<kenvandine> i saw you had created the category
<kenvandine> thx for adding the screenshots!
<dpm> no worries :)
<kenvandine> and the bzr instructions :-D
<dpm> ;)
<kenvandine> nice, you highlighted the code i added... cool
<kenvandine> didn't know you could do that
<dpm> yeah, I've been working a bit on it this morning, and running the tutorial myself to check everything we write we can actually run :)
<kenvandine> dpm, how bad is it if we both edit at the same time?  wordpress isn't as cool as google docs is it?
 * kenvandine will wait for the can edit token :)
<dpm> kenvandine, you should be good to go, I've finished editing. But Wordpress wants me to close the tab, just a sec :)
<kenvandine> sorry dpm!
<dpm> kenvandine, lol, no worries, I was about to mention if you had ever heard of pastebin.ubuntu.com ;)
<dpm> kenvandine, ok, all pages are now live http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/app-developer-cookbook/social-networking/ \o/
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> thx dpm
<dpm> good work kenvandine
<kenvandine> thx dpm
<kenvandine> thanks for all the help and nagging :)
<dpm> ;)
<seb128> kenvandine, do you know about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/1005677
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1005677 in qt4-x11 "Re-emergence of "Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_widget_style_get: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)'"" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> kenvandine, skaet is asking about it
<seb128> kenvandine, seems overlay-scrollbar related, I think you discussed similar issues with the u1 guys recently?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, it's being worked on? or yeah ...? ;-
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> yeah i think it is similar to the other bug
<kenvandine> i assigned it to cimi
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> kenvandine, like we assigned him gtk bug and got them ignored, or did you get him to agree to look at it? ;-)
<kenvandine> no agreement... so you know... :-/
<roaksoax> hey guys I was wondering what package contains the Ubuntu presentation templates for LIbreOFfice impress?
<dobey> hmm, no mterry
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-23
<mlankhorst> 13
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-17
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> pitti: Hey, I'm testing colord 1.0.1. Does adt
<RAOF> pitti: Hey, I'm testing colord 1.0.1. Does adt-run-test support Restrictions: build-needed? Because it seems to not be doing that.
<pitti> hey RAOF
<pitti> RAOF: it does, but ATM it does it wrongly, see debian bug 711209
<ubot2`> Debian bug 711209 in autopkgtest "autopkgtest: build-needed restriction doesn't actually run tests in built tree" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/711209
<pitti> RAOF: that bites me in umockdev as well, so today I'll look for a workaround
<pitti> RAOF: or rather, fix that in adt-run
<RAOF> pitti: So, with that caveat, you may enjoy the debian/1.0.1-1 tag in colord's collab-maint git repository.
<pitti> RAOF: yay
 * pitti checks whether the keyring update in Debian has happened by now
<pitti> RAOF: ah, seems it didn't yet, so I can't upload yet
<RAOF> Heh. Fair 'nuff.
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> salut didrocks , bien et toi?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va, semaine qui dÃ©marrre en fanfarre, mais bon :)
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va trÃ¨s bien ! j'ai eu un bon week-end
<didrocks> pitti: tu as fait quoi?
<pitti> didrocks: I'm going to blog/G+ about it RSN, watch out :)
<didrocks> pitti: heh, will do! :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks!
<sil2100> Morning!
<sil2100> didrocks: hi! How was your long weekend? :)
<seb128> hey sil2100
<didrocks> sil2100: hey, was hot in Lyon! :) Got to the spa on Friday morning
<didrocks> was good, not too many people
<sil2100> Excellent
<didrocks> then, a lot of cycling (~30 kms) within the city
<didrocks> how was yours?
<sil2100> Ahh, I miss my bike, would love to ride a bit now that the weather is so nice
<pitti> didrocks: done :)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<didrocks> pitti: looking :)
<sil2100> didrocks: not bad, only had one day for resting theoretically, but I bummed around as much as I could ;)
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va bien ?
<sil2100> didrocks: btw. I see that the queue still has dbus-cpp and location-service waiting as (sync)
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, I waited to ask you for it
<didrocks> it's from yesterday's right?
<pitti> seb128: en effet, je vais trÃ¨s bien ! mon weekend Ã©tait mervellieux
<sil2100> didrocks: it was from Friday
<didrocks> sil2100: oh, is seb128 to blame? :p
<seb128> pitti, super, tu as fait quoi ?
<sil2100> seb128: hi! Was there some issue with NEWing those two? ^
<pitti> seb128: https://plus.google.com/107564545827215425270/posts/VtrGcA74wP9
<didrocks> sil2100: I can NEW them, I reviewed them, apart if seb128 has some remarks on them
<seb128> sil2100, no, they were just not in the queue at 7pm friday when I called it a week
<didrocks> seb128: tsss, 7pm on Friday and you call it a week? How dare you! :p
<sil2100> seb128: ok! didrocks: could you NEW ;) ?
<didrocks> sure
<seb128> haha
<sil2100> Thanks, I'll check the stacks now
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, so on the stacks they both are, maybe you should rebuild those components
<didrocks> sil2100: once the merge back to trunk is done
<sil2100> I think we missed some new packages, but since there were some issues with tests and releasing, we only got that many new ones out
<didrocks> (for dbus-cpp and location-service)
<didrocks> sil2100: otherwise, the changelog will be screwed
<seb128> didrocks, I was not sure they would land there since we had issue earlier in the day due to the lillypilly checklist (I think)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I saw a reject
<seb128> didrocks, the copy there was not uptodate and not listing some of the components
<didrocks> telepathy-ofono
<didrocks> right?
<seb128> and apparently trying to republish the same version doesn't work
<seb128> yes
<sil2100> Yes
<didrocks> seb128: you have to cheat, it's possible to republish
<didrocks> seb128: sil2100: so that you know how it works
<seb128> we tweaked the changelog
<seb128> to bump the version
<didrocks> remember those .project files?
<didrocks> this is what are used to track what we didn't publish yet and need to monitor
<sil2100> didrocks: hm, so what should I do now with dbus-cpp and location-service? Should I rebuild those stacks and republish? Or merge something to their trunks?
<sil2100> didrocks: remember those, yes
<didrocks> as you can rebuild one part of the stack, we remove those .project file and recreate them
<didrocks> but you can as well publish them multiple times
<didrocks> (without rebuilding the whole stack)
<didrocks> so they are renamed .project_<timestamp>
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> if you need to republish the same version again, you need to mv package.project_<timestamp> package.project
<didrocks> then launching the publication
<sil2100> Awesome to know
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> Cheating is awesome
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> well, it's not that easy, but in practice, this is "only" for new components
<seb128> pitti, that sounds like a fun sunday ;-)
<didrocks> sil2100: so, yeah, once the changelog is merged back to dbus-cpp and location-service, please rebuild those
<didrocks> (just those components)
<didrocks> so get a real changelog :p
<didrocks> pitti: waow, excellent!
<sil2100> But but dbus-cpp and location-service already have 0.0.1daily13.06.14.1-0ubuntu1 in them ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: oh oh, silly me :)
<didrocks> yeah, it was "just" in NEW
<didrocks> but the diff isn't correct
<sil2100> Since those got published and just got stuck in the queue
<didrocks> yep :)
<didrocks> the only thing not "right" is the diff
<didrocks> between distro and bzr
<didrocks> to know if anything new was generated
<pitti> seb128: indeed it was, Lieutenant!
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<didrocks> sil2100: so, just wait them to be published in -proposed
<didrocks> sil2100: and then relaunch them, maybe (I guess even :p) nothing new will be to be published
<sil2100> \o/
 * didrocks loves http://piware.de/fotos/Filmwelt-Bakede-Jun2013/slide_09.html
<didrocks> with the red eyes, it seems to be on purpose
<pitti> didrocks: je crois que Kirk n'ai pas des yeux rouges ?
 * hyperair wonders if anyone here is having intermittent issues with gtalk authentication in empathy
<didrocks> pitti: non, en effet, juste que je trouve que Ã§a va bien dans le contexte tout de mÃªme :)
<pitti> hyperair: I actually used to have, but it seems to have stabilized in the recent weeks
<pitti> didrocks: :)
<hyperair> pitti: in saucy?
<didrocks> pitti: hum, it seems that Unity 7 became jaleous of the Unity 9 interface and decided to freeze :p
<pitti> hyperair: yes (is there any other release? :) )
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> that should mean there's an SRUable patch, shouldn't it?
<pitti> hyperair: I had the impression it was due to changes on the google side
<hyperair> no, i'm not sure it is.
<hyperair> i just killed signonpluginprocess, and it worked again
<pitti> hyperair: maybe you have something different
<hyperair> previously i'd been removing and re-adding the google account in signon-ui
<sil2100> didrocks, seb128: I'll jump out for a quick exercise now, since the weather is excellent
<didrocks> sil2100: enjoy :)
<sil2100> Be back in some moments!
<seb128> have fun!
<Laney> morning
<hyperair> weather eh.. it's hazy as hell over here in singapore.
<seb128> Laney, oh, I didn't notice your "morning" earlier, good morning! ;-)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> hey seb128!
<Laney> it does seem quiet ;-)
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<seb128> everybody doing monday email catchup etc I guess
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> \o/
<mlankhorst> morning
<mlankhorst> i mean
<mlankhorst> bonjour!
<pitti> Ã§a va mlankhorst ?
<mlankhorst> very good
<mlankhorst> I exhausted my french for this week :-)
<mlankhorst> but the weather was nice saturday http://imgur.com/uVxApz4
<didrocks> bonjour mlankhorst :)
<pitti> mlankhorst: wow, that's a funny bike that you have there!
<mlankhorst> aye, I haven't tried the max speed yet
<Laney> bet it requires a lot more maintenance than a push bike :P
<mlankhorst> yeah but I don't have to do most of it myself :-)
 * mlankhorst is still using a conventional bike to get to the stables
 * didrocks tries some reboots, bbiab
<didrocks> sil2100: back from exercising? :)
<didrocks> Laney: hum, you do have some upstart-session knowledge, right? :)
<Laney> a small amount
<didrocks> do you have time for a small experiment? I think I probably did something wrong and it will take more time for me to debug
<didrocks> if you apt-get source unity
<Laney> if I can't help then there are others who know more though :P
<didrocks> and apply that patch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/3364
<didrocks> does it start the panel service on session startup for you?
<didrocks> (it doesn't for me)
<didrocks> I wonder if ted is relying on one of the new indicators to emit indicators-loaded
<didrocks> and we don't have that signal
<didrocks> (in a vanilla installation)
<Laney> Looking at the file it could be that 'start on started' is too late
<Laney> depending on what it needs
<Laney> but let me try
<didrocks> $ grep indicators-loaded /usr/share/upstart/sessions/*
<didrocks> /usr/share/upstart/sessions/unity-panel-service.conf:emits indicators-loaded
<didrocks> and nothing else
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, keep me posted :)
<didrocks> thanks!
<Laney> that means that it sends a signal for others to look at
<didrocks> yeah, I just realized I misread
<Laney> shouldn't affect the emitting service being run
<didrocks> I'll blame the hot weather :p
<sil2100> Back ;)
<didrocks> oh but, the other patch is "if we are under gnome-sessionâ¦ don't use the unity upstart job"
<Laney> the other?
<sil2100> Resuming loking at stacks this very instance! Had to freshen up, since it's a bit too sunny for exercising
<didrocks> Laney: no, ignore me, the script exit 0, I think the event is emmitted
<didrocks> (in unity.conf)
<didrocks> sil2100: do you have time for a quick hangout to catch up?
<Laney> didrocks: does 'status unity-panel-service' show it running?
<sil2100> didrocks: how about in 7 minutes?
<didrocks> sil2100: sure
<didrocks> Laney: I ran it by hand, does it impacts it? I can try a guest session
<didrocks> $ status unity-panel-service
<didrocks> unity-panel-service stop/waiting
<didrocks> $ status unity
<didrocks> unity stop/waiting
<Laney> I don't have a unity upstart job
<didrocks> Laney: weird, I didn't revert that one AFAIK
<didrocks> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/3361
<didrocks> start on started gnome-settings-daemon and xsession SESSION=ubuntu
<Laney> wait, I'm lying
<didrocks> ah :)
<didrocks> gnome-settings-daemon is started here
<Laney> but it isn't running
<Laney> unless I got it today
<didrocks> Laney: no, not from today
<didrocks> and not running here as well
<didrocks> so "and xsession SESSION=ubuntu" is faly?
<didrocks> falsy*
<Laney> let me see
<didrocks> ah, there is a stop in the script
<Laney> aha, yes, it's tripping that
<Laney> see ~/.cache/upstart/unity.log*
<Laney> so your indicator event won't happen
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> grrr ted :p
<didrocks> in fact the check should be in the exec part
<Laney> that's the right way to do a conditional start
<didrocks> yeah, but we still want to see the "unity" event started
<didrocks> can this be expressed in some way? (I don't think we want a super long "exec" line)
<Laney> kind of confused by this
<Laney> when wouldn't gnome-session be used?
<didrocks> Laney: touch
<didrocks> (I know, no sense for unity7 without xmir for now)
<didrocks> but I think ted wanted to implement it for the future
<didrocks> (the day of releasing unity 7 of course, hence the revert I had to do :p)
<sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/apps_extra_packages_for_gallery/+merge/169756 <- could you take a look?
<Laney> I guess started unity is the wrong thing for us at this point
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, making sense, thanks!
 * Laney fires up the vm
<sil2100> didrocks: this would unblock Apps, looking at Indicators but LP is taking its time today\
<sil2100> didrocks: hanging out in a moment?
<didrocks> Laney: do you mind tracking that once ted is back? you clearly have more knowledge on how we should build the sessions upstart once moving away from gnome-session to upstart to handle it
<didrocks> sil2100: I'm ready right now, tell me when you are
<didrocks> (I'll just exercice after this hangout)
<Laney> I can probably figure out something to fix this up
<sil2100> didrocks: I'll just finish indicators and ready
<Laney> but I don't really have a handle on moving away from gnome-session completely
<didrocks> thanks Laney :)
<Laney> np
<didrocks> sil2100: ok
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, it seems that jbicha broke indicator-session on Saturday
<sil2100> Will have to wait for him to pop up
<didrocks> "nice", ok :/
<sil2100> didrocks: do you have a hangout link ready by any chance ;)?
<didrocks> sil2100: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/d9e1fb52de2cf1cc1d14d5aca163296f609ed875?hl=fr
<seb128> sil2100, how did he break it?
<Laney> didrocks: OK, got it
<Laney> didrocks: try "start on started unity or desktop-start DESKTOP_SESSION=ubuntu" / "stop on desktop-end"
<Laney> seb128: have you tried system-settings on the device?
<seb128> Laney, no, I planned to do that today ... does it work?
<Laney> it's a bit buggy
<Laney> like I couldn't get back from the individual panels
<seb128> it's a bit annoying that you can't just deploy from qtcreator as you do for pure qml programs
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I will have a look
<Laney> it just flicked instead
<Laney> do you think it's ok to merge the appearance stuff with the example content?
<Laney> I don't think I can do much more without dconf or the content picker
<didrocks> Laney: sorry, was in this hangout :)
<Laney> np
<didrocks> Laney: nice!
<Laney> does it work?
<didrocks> let me try
<Laney> you can't have 'stop on stopping unity' because that is triggered by the job aborting itself
<Laney> that one confused me for a bit
<didrocks> started unity is true even if the job stopped I guess?
<Laney> no
<didrocks> ah or
<Laney> but stopping is
<didrocks> hum
<Laney> pre-start -> stopping -> stopped I think
<didrocks> I think ted wanted to start only if unity startede
<didrocks> started*
<Laney> that's what the desktop-start should do
<Laney> it comes from gnome-session
<Laney> so you have both
<didrocks> yeah, it's a bit "uncrystalclear"
<didrocks> but works in theory
<didrocks> let me see :)
<Laney> can comment it
<didrocks> contrive* was the term I was looking for :)
<Laney> it's new world and old world
<didrocks> heh, right
<Laney> you're going to get stuff like this until we are ... converged ...
<didrocks> Laney: working fine :)
<didrocks> (tried multiple starts)
<didrocks> so yeah, please, add a comment and I'll approve it :)
<Laney> I suppose you could simplify it further if you made the unity job emit that desktop-start signal
<Laney> thanks!
<didrocks> yeah, not sure if we can emits since the pre-start script though
<didrocks> from*
<Laney> you'd probably do it in post-start
<Laney> see /usr/share/upstart/sessions/gnome-session.conf
<didrocks> ah, so you mean, removing the unity signal, but have "destkop-start & session==â¦"
<Laney> edit debian/unity.conf to have the same post-start and pre-stop as gnome-session does
<Laney> then have unity-panel-service just listen for desktop-start/desktop-end
<didrocks> not sure if it's semantically correct, it's like if we were telling the session is ready if unity is ready (and we don't care about the rest)
<didrocks> as you wish, the best in your opinion :)
<didrocks> if we tell "DESKTOP_SESSION" is used to detect we are using gnome-session, I'm fine with it
<Laney> ok
<Laney> where's the MP?
<didrocks> Laney: oh, there is none, it's part from a revert, so reintroduce the revert + your additional commit I would say
<Laney> sure
<didrocks> (I had to revert it in a hurry the day we released unity 7 as having that + a segfault was enough :p)
 * Laney meditates for a minute on what is better
 * didrocks lights a candle for Laney
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I was grabbing a bite ... merge the background panel makes sense yes
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I want to get a widget merged into the ui toolkit first, so will try that this afternoon
<seb128> cool
<xclaesse> is there a trick to restart unity and keep the workspace where each window are?
<xclaesse> like gnome-shell does when doing alt-f2 r
<xclaesse> if I just do unity --replace then all my windows goes to first workspace
<seb128> hum, they should not, seems like a bug
<sil2100> seb128: regarding the indicator-session, I just checked and my conclusions were too soon - jbicha did not break it, it broke itself probably due to changes in saucy
<sil2100> seb128: as it's the same issue as with some other packages - pthread errors
<seb128> sil2100, what's the error it hits?
<seb128> oh, yeah, new binutils being pickier about incorrect linkage
<sil2100> /usr/bin/ld: libgtest.a(gtest-all.o): undefined reference to symbol 'pthread_key_delete@@GLIBC_2.2.5'
<sil2100> Yes
<Laney> grr, silent rules!
<seb128> Laney, how did you run the settings app on the device?
<didrocks> sil2100: needing any packaging ack?
<sil2100> didrocks: not yet, uno momentos
<didrocks> tedg: hey! FYI, after some tests, there was still an issue with your panel-service + upstart branch, after talking to Laney, there is a solution that is merging right now (https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/unity/user-session-jobs/+merge/169771)
<didrocks> tedg: basically, the issue was that unity event always stops when using gnome-session, so the event for starting unity-panel-service was never triggered
<tedg> didrocks, Ah, cool!
<tedg> didrocks, Great stuff!
<didrocks> thanks Laney for providing an elegant solution :)
<tedg> It should make debugging the indicator issues there *much* easier.
<didrocks> and make it starting faster
<didrocks> I can feel the difference, even on my beefy machine :)
<tedg> Heh, great!
<didrocks> stopping seems a little bit longer, but on startup, it feels like if unity was already started :)
<tedg> didrocks, I think that's because not all of our stuff is responding to SIGTERM properly.
<tedg> didrocks, So then upstart has to formally kill things after a 5 second timeout.
<didrocks> tedg: I agree with you, we seem to timeout systematically
<tedg> didrocks, I think we should look at some of the offenders, we have a SIGTERM handler in HUD that just shutsdown the mainloop gracefully, and it works with usptart well.
<tedg> didrocks, Probably need to add that code around.
<sil2100> didrocks: hmmm... still checking that, but the new package dependency of gir1.2-dbusmenu-glib-0.4 for raring is a bit fishy
<didrocks> tedg: do you know if upstart has a way to tell "this is what timed out"
<didrocks> at least to have a list
<didrocks> sil2100: hum, didn't we decide to look at saucy first, making all possible publication and move on the SRU then?
<sil2100> didrocks: since I checked all the obvious projects and the only place where the gir1.2-dbusmenu-glib-0.4 dependency was added was libdbusmenu, but for saucy
<sil2100> didrocks: doing that too, was waiting for Apps to finish, I also re-ran Unity, will check the publications too
<didrocks> ok :)
<sil2100> didrocks: I'm just afraid that there might have been a stack publishing missing somewhere ;/
<didrocks> sil2100: so let's ignore it
<sil2100> FOr raring
<tedg> didrocks, Hmm, not sure it has a way to see that.  It can give a reason that it was stopped, but I think the only cases now are pass/fail.  Perhaps we could add "timeout"
<didrocks> sil2100: I wonder if it's not part of the "this used to work"
<didrocks> (ignored by UTAH checks)
<didrocks> and now otto really checks it
<didrocks> tedg: yeah, that would be interesting for debugging
 * didrocks proposes a shutchart :)
<Laney> seb128: I installed and launched it from the terminal
<Laney> don't know why it didn't appear in the app lens
<seb128> Laney, do you know how to get an icon for it?
<Laney> it has a desktop file
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, do you know what would be needed for system settings to get an icon on ubuntu touch.
<seb128> ?
<Laney> didrocks: that was one of the issues ;-) The other one was that the condition for gnome-session was never fired so you never got it started on the desktop
<didrocks> indeed :)
<Laney> ooh, britney/autopkgtest is coming
<Laney> so everyone will really have to make sure tests work ;-)
 * mlankhorst still can't push xorg-integration-tests :(
<mlankhorst> it won't compile until x1.14 lands
<sil2100> didrocks: maybe... are you ready for some ACK's for publishing? ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: I fully am!
<kenvandine> just need to reference an icon that is installed
<kenvandine> right now it is using one from a theme that isn't installed
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<sil2100> didrocks: platform: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Platform/job/cu2d-platform-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_qtubuntu_0.51daily13.06.17-0ubuntu1.diff/*view*/ <- but here I see a small problem with the changelog
<sil2100> didrocks: as one entry is duplicated by Tim and Ken
<didrocks> sil2100: it's not an issue, it means that both contributed to the branch that was merged
<didrocks> (they did each one at least one commit)
<sil2100> Awesome, then it's all ok in my eyes
<didrocks> sil2100: fine for me as well, feel free to publish :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, I will do a MR to fix that then ;-)
<sil2100> didrocks: published, now sdk:
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/SDK/job/cu2d-sdk-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_dee-qt_3.0daily13.06.17-0ubuntu1.diff/*view*/
<sil2100> (no deps, just packaging)
<kenvandine> seb128, cool
<didrocks> sil2100: good good! :)
<Laney> seb128: kenvandine: I thought there was a touch icon theme?
<Laney> Some of the panels in there don't have icons either
<seb128> Laney, ubuntu-mobile-icons
<seb128> Laney, but it's not complete
<Laney> so the ones we chose are just what it will be?
<seb128> you mean? the icon names? no, I tried to pick available icons as place  holders
<seb128> we will need to update that once design provides the icons
<didrocks> sil2100: on the indicator with binutils being pickier, this is fixed/merging or do we need help?
<sil2100> didrocks: published, settings now: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Settings/job/cu2d-settings-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_ubuntu-system-settings_0.1daily13.06.17-0ubuntu1.diff/*view*/
<sil2100> didrocks: I think it's not being worked on yet, but I guess I could quickly fix that
<didrocks> sil2100: +1
<didrocks> (we can notice seb128 writing commit message of 3 kms long :))
<seb128> heh
 * Laney approves of that!
<seb128> I'm writing nice details for you to read ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: that's kind of you :p
<didrocks> seb128: "settings": is there anything else? it's the name of the panel?
<didrocks> the settings panel of system settings?
<sil2100> didrocks: cyphermox fixed the indicator-session thing, so it's getting merged now
<didrocks> \o/
<cyphermox> moo
<didrocks> thanks cyphermox :)
<sil2100> ;)
<seb128> didrocks, no, it's the settings app itsel ... you can notice some are "about: ..." which is the about panel
<cyphermox> didrocks: I was surprised Laney didn't beat me to it like for indicator-datetime :)
<Laney> I got the wrong impression that those were all fixed
<Laney> otherwise I would have ;P
<cyphermox> Laney: ahah ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh, he did merge back his commit for it now?
<didrocks> Laney: did you? ^
<cyphermox> hmm, I should double-check
<Laney> did I what?
<Laney> oh hey, datetime is stuck in proposed
<cyphermox> yup
<Laney> oh, /that/
<Laney> now I remember
<didrocks> and it's not in trunk
<cyphermox> yes, it's fine
<didrocks> so the daily release is sad and complaining:
<didrocks> A version (12.10.3daily13.06.07-0ubuntu2) is available at the destination for that component but is not in trunk which is still at 12.10.3daily13.06.07-0ubuntu2. Ignoring that component for source: indicator-datetime, branch: lp:indicator-datetime, series: saucy.
<cyphermox> didrocks: sure it is?
<Laney> I didn't do this to the archive
<didrocks> interesting
<Laney> I only touched trunk ;-)
<cyphermox> oh, but UNRELEASED
<didrocks> ah!
<didrocks> so my system works \o/
<cyphermox> yup
<didrocks> hum, I thought sil2100 fixed it IIRC
<didrocks> or maybe I'm misleading with something else?
<sil2100> What what?
<cyphermox> unmerged still
<Laney> it should be fine if you can somehow tell it to ignore that
<didrocks> sil2100: do you remember that you backported a commit?
<didrocks> ah, unmerged :p
<Laney> the one in saucy is effectively a no-change rebuild
<cyphermox> sil2100: needs fixing: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/indicator-datetime/include_direct_push/+merge/169255
<didrocks> Laney: no, it's on my list of enhancement
<didrocks> Laney: but yeah, would be cool
<sil2100> uuuh
<didrocks> I prefer to be too strict for now :)
<sil2100> Ok, so libical-dev
<didrocks> ah, it was that one :)
<sil2100> It should work now
<sil2100> I'll reapprove, as 1.0 is in ubuntu now
<Laney> hrm, not sure I like calling it a bad idea
<Laney> the FAQ says it's fine ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: sorry, what about a bad idea?
<Laney> "Include the missing version that got directly pushed to the distro... which is generally a bad idea. Someone pushed directly to distro and now we have to fix that."
<Laney> on that MP ^
<didrocks> Laney: I think the "bad idea" that sil2100 is telling is about not taking care of Vcs-Bzr :p
<didrocks> (or at least asking)
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> Yep, it's generally a bad idea to workaround our daily-release machinery ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: have you touch to the .project files for dbus-cpp and location-service?
<sil2100> Without letting us know that is
<didrocks> 2013-06-17 14:16:08,599 ERROR A manual upload of location-service (0.0.1daily13.06.14.1-0ubuntu1) to distro has been done after the current daily release was prepared (it was at 0) at this time.Ignore uploading 0.0.1daily13.06.17-0ubuntu1.
<didrocks> 2013-06-17 14:16:12,870 ERROR A manual upload of dbus-cpp (0.0.1daily13.06.14.1-0ubuntu1) to distro has been done after the current daily release was prepared (it was at 0) at this time.Ignore uploading 0.0.1daily13.06.17-0ubuntu1.
<sil2100> didrocks: hm, I don't think so
<didrocks> ah no, that's normal
<didrocks> as it wasn't in distro and we NEW them afterwards
<didrocks> there has been an intermediate upload to distro for it
<didrocks> that's why it ignored it
<didrocks> sil2100: you didn't relaunch a build for them as we discussed this morning, right?
<sil2100> didrocks: oh shit, hoho, dammit, I did not relaunch, I just published the platform stack
<didrocks> sil2100: no worry, it's just creating a dummy commit upstream
<didrocks> (with a revision from today)
<didrocks> it will never surface to distro, just pollute upstream (well, low level pollution) :)
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks for testing my protection code btw :p
<sil2100> didrocks: in the meantime while your coffee is being made! apps stack: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Apps/job/cu2d-apps-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_gallery-app_0.0.67daily13.06.17-0ubuntu1.diff/*view*/
<didrocks> sil2100: +1
<sil2100> didrocks: heh, funny thing - I just wanted to add the missing gir1.2-dbusmenu-glib-0.4 to packages in raring, but it's there already!
<sil2100> didrocks: just a redeploy was missing
<sil2100> didrocks: can I redeploy?
<didrocks> sil2100: sure sure, if the stack is not running
<didrocks> sil2100: so, with all those publishing, it seems I didn't break the traditional "copy to distro" case, at least, right?
<sil2100> didrocks: right, at least I see that gallery-app got uploaded properly, so it should work alright
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, let's see what will happened once you publish the SRUs :)
<sil2100> huh
<sil2100> bleh...
<sil2100> didrocks: in the meantime, media looking good:  http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Media/job/cu2d-media-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_camera-app_2.9.1daily13.06.17-0ubuntu1.diff
<didrocks> sil2100: sounds fine
<sil2100> didrocks: btw. I checked wrongly and my indicator-datetime merge can't go in still, since libical-dev 1.0-0ubuntu1 is still in -proposed, not in saucy ;(
<sil2100> s/go/get
<jbicha> sil2100: ical won't migrate to saucy until after indicator-datetime is built with the new ical
<sil2100> jbicha: that might be hard to do, as because of someone's direct push to the archive, indicator-datetime cannot be released before we get the changelog entry back into trunk manually, which is failing to merge - one solution would be to merge in directly without the merger, as the merger does not have -proposed enabled
<sil2100> jbicha: but I'll merge it in manually then
<sil2100> didrocks: you fine with that? ^
<jbicha> like I said last week, I think you guys would have /less/ problems if you just built against -proposed than requiring manual overrides every time there is a transition
<didrocks> sil2100: I'm fine with that
 * Sweetsha1k improved the general build time of LibreOffice by 10% on all platforms at the Hackfest it seems ...
<mlankhorst> it now takes 55 minutes instead of 50?
<sarnold> lol
<Sweetsha1k> mlankhorst: on Windows it now takes 89 minutes instead of 99 minutes on a i7-4470K with 16GB RAM. on big bertha it takes 2min10sec instead of 2min25sec to build from scratch ....
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey, I think that maybe gallery -> facebook uploads broke?
<rickspencer3> it seemed to not work for me over the weekend
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i haven't been able to test it on saucy yet
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i'll check it out today
 * didrocks waves good evening
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, is there anyway to automate it?
<rickspencer3> I know that the web apps team have some automated tests to catch when web integration breaks
<kenvandine> not without storing credentials in a public place
<kenvandine> we do have autopilot tests for webcred
<kenvandine> friends itself hasn't changed, i think there are problems with the webcred saucy stack on the device
<kenvandine> works on the desktop fine
<kenvandine> and i just got saucy flashed to my phone
<kenvandine> so i'll test
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, confirmed, sharing works with the version of signon-ui in saucy-proposed
<kenvandine> we just need to get that published, blocked on the lack of powerpc build
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, ok, I'll try it later this week ;)
<rickspencer3> lack of powerpc build?
<rickspencer3> er
 * rickspencer3 shakes fist at PowerPC
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> it depends on qtdeclarative
<kenvandine> which doesn't support ppc
<kenvandine> so anything qml lacks ppc builds
<kenvandine> and for signon-ui to work on the phone... we have to use the qtdeclarative
<rickspencer3> hmmmm
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, also of interest... i just added my facebook account with  ubuntu-system-settings
<rickspencer3> I don't think we want to hold up all phone development for PPC
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, indeed... it's been a real pain
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, we should find a way to decouple it
<kenvandine> yes
<rickspencer3> aiui we only support PPC for the Xubuntu flavor community
<kenvandine> we've been working on that everywhere we've hit this
<Laney> so it seems that nautilus double signal handler disconnect wasn't the bug ;-)
<xnox> Is there a ppa or something for me to try gtk 3.9+?
<jbicha> xnox: ricotz/testing has a git snapshot; it's not been packaged elsewhere that I know of
<xnox> jbicha thanks =)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-18
<Smaug> hey all, I just installed ubuntu 12.04 on a computer.   When I turn it on, the log in page comes up.  When I log in, it seems to hang.  It shows the background and my mouse and nothing else.  The desktop never comes up.  Thoughts?
<jbicha> !support
<ubot2> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<Smaug> ty
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<didrocks> (didn't look at IRC, lost in emails until now)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! how about yourself?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm good, thanks!
<pitti> yay for another huge Mir thread
<didrocks> yeah, not a really productive oneâ¦
<duflu> didrocks: Sorry, was that my fault? Should I avoid the list in future?
<didrocks> duflu: we are not talking about the same thread I guess :) (the one on ubuntu-devel)
<didrocks> duflu: you didn't talk on that one?
<duflu> didrocks: Good, no, different. Good morning then :)
<didrocks> (or maybe you did but your message is still moderated)
<didrocks> hey duflu! how are you?
<duflu> didrocks: Good. You?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks!
 * didrocks soon to be renamed professional packages reviewer
<mlankhorst> bonjour
<pitti> bonjour Monsieur mlankhorst, comment vas-tu ?
<mlankhorst> and the equivalent in english: sup?
<pitti> let's say, the equivalent in the US Midwest :)
<didrocks> mlankhorst: hey! how are you?
<mlankhorst> es geht gut
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> salut didrocks , bien et toi?
<didrocks> Ã§a va
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> seb128: il fait trÃ¨s chaud; je vais bien, mais je dois manger beaucoup de glace :)
<pitti> seb128: et toi ?
<seb128> ici aussi il fait (trop) chaud
<seb128> glace \o/
 * pitti -> out for a bit
<seb128> pitti, bonne glace !
<pitti> not for glace, some errands :)
<seb128> hehe
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> didrocks, salut ! en forme ? pas trop chaud ?
<didrocks> seb128: si, chaud, enfin lÃ , Ã§a va encore mais d'ici 2/3 heures, Ã§a va Ãªtre la fournaise :)
<didrocks> et toi?
<seb128> Ã§a va, je profite de la fraicheur matinale ;-)
 * seb128 wants temperate weather
<seb128> not 16Â°C, not 35Â°C, just good old 25Â°C
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> sil2100: no more "bootstrap" case now, you can add whatever you need after "automatic revision fromâ¦" apart from something containing: "(ppa:.*)"
<didrocks> which is only used for feature branches
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> /o/
<sil2100> \o\
<Laney> morn'
<seb128> Laney, good morning
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey
<Laney> how's it going?
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks! yourself?
<seb128> good! you?
<Laney> had to get up at dawn to scare off some fighting birds :P
<Laney> but otherwise good
<seb128> lol, be nice to the birds!
<mlankhorst> heheehhehe
<asac> anybody else gets "self-signed certificate" warnings when using google online accounts?
<asac> maybe talk.google.com is an abandoned host?
<seb128> asac, I get those as well yes
<mlankhorst> or MITM :p
<mlankhorst> https://talk.google.com didn't give me a warning, fwiw..
<asac> maybe you checked "Remember this choice for future connections" at some point
<asac> ah i see what you mean
<jpds> mlankhorst: Well, that's HTTPS, not XMPP.
<asac> maybe this is a jabber connection?
<asac> :)
<asac> yeah
<jpds> Considering they've
<jpds> ...abandoned that for hangouts.
<asac> i presume that gtalk just ships this as a whitelist in their app
<asac> or something
<jpds> asac: No, it is no more.
<asac> something else? not xmpp?
<jpds> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangouts
<asac> hmm.
<asac> so then its probably because we use a legacy service :)
<asac> hmm. no official api?
<asac> not even a subset for just chat?
<asac> that sucks :)
<asac> i hope i am not getting this right
<asac> https://developers.google.com/+/hangouts/
<asac> ok thats in-hangout api
<jpds> asac: No, it's completely closed service.
<asac> guess they dont like us leaeching their services :)
<asac> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/05/20/2315216/google-drops-xmpp-support
<asac> so actually pretty recently
<jpds> Quite.
<asac> jpds: so seems they continue to support xmpp on client, just not federation after all http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/hands-on-with-hangouts-googles-new-text-and-video-chat-architecture/
<asac> i believe we should hardcode the cert as "known to be good" and not annoy the user :)
<asac> seb128: ?
<jpds> asac: Haven't you used Hangouts before?
<asac> jpds: i know hangouts
<asac> probaly have been 1k hours on them already :)
<asac> counting
<seb128> asac, I'm not sure I've a grasp on the issue ... are they discontinuing the service (in this case we should stop using it at all) or do they keep running in (in which case why is the certificate buggy)?
<asac> seb128: they will continue to support xmpp for clients
<asac> but not jabber federation
<asac> (to lock out MS and FB to leech on them)
<asac> so that seems to be OK
<asac> now the real issue is that there are warnings about self-certs ... those we can fix by whitelisting this known good cert maybe?
<seb128> asac, that makes sense
<seb128> not sure if that error comes from empathy or uoa
<seb128> xclaesse, ^ do you know?
<asac> not sure how to really know though that its a good server that we currently talk to :)
<Laney> I'm getting that warning about chat.facebook.com FYI
<asac> hmm
<asac> maybe its a bug on how we do ssl?
<asac> or maybe they really dont bother and just whitelist their own certs in their apps
<Laney> it worked before
<Laney> so something has changed
<xclaesse> seb128, what's the problem ?
<xclaesse> facebook & gtalk connects fine here
<Laney> infact it's MSN and GTalk too :-)
<xclaesse> MSN connects fine via xmpp here too :)
<xclaesse> did not see any cert issue
<xclaesse> if the cert cannot be validated, empathy will ask the user to accept it or not
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> xclaesse, it seems everyone on saucy see certificat confirmation dialog, do you know what could be going on there?
<xclaesse> seb128, smcv on #telepathy is our cert expert ;-)
<xclaesse> seb128, afaik we are using GIO something to validate certs
<seb128> bah, nautilus keeps segfaulting when I open it here
<seb128> xclaesse, http://ubuntuone.com/2uxNfUpH4SLqTOzoY05D3p
<seb128> is what I see
<seb128> xclaesse, let's move to #telepathy
<xclaesse> seb128, maybe saucy's CA doesn't work well
<seb128> xclaesse, I've no clue about CA, let's see if/when Simon replies
<xclaesse> seb128, it works fine on raring, so something changed in saucy
<xclaesse> does it have different version of gabble?
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble
<xclaesse> gnutls maybe
<seb128> 0.16.5 -> 0.16.6
<seb128> we updated glib-(networking) to 2.37
<seb128> you said that's used for cert verification
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnutls26
<seb128> that didn't change
<xclaesse> hm, release notes of gabble .6 have lots of stuff about tls actually
<xclaesse> seb128, could you try with gabble .5 on saucy ?
<xclaesse> quickly checking gabble code, it is gnutls doing the checks, no gio. But I'm not really familiar with that code
<seb128> xclaesse, downgrading gabble doesn't change anything
<xclaesse> wocky does not seems to be using GTlsConnection yet, so I don't think it is using GIO' stuff
<Laney> gcr?
<xclaesse> yep could be gcr issue
<xclaesse> seb128, btw I think you guys should push gabble .6 to raring
<xclaesse> seb128, release notes says "This release fixes a man-in-the-middle attack. You should upgrade."
<seb128> xclaesse, security team backported that fix it seems: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/0.16.5-0ubuntu1.1
<xclaesse> ah ok, good :)
<seb128> Laney, xclaesse: not easy to downgrade gcr without empathy :/
<Laney> even with rebuilding?
<seb128> I didn't try that
<seb128> empathy: error while loading shared libraries: libgcr-ui-3.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<seb128> when just trying to downgrade gcr
<seb128> not sure I care enough atm to spend more time on that though
<seb128> Laney, if you want to give that a try please do
<seb128> but I'm not sure how useful that is, even if we determine it's the gcr update, we will still need to fix the bug in the new version
<xclaesse> those things have always been fragile :(
<seb128> ok, I'm out for some exercice before it gets too hot for that
<czajkowski> aloha
<Laney> well I tried building empathy against gcr 3.6 and it doesn't fix it
<mlankhorst> seb128: can you approve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-s-xorg-general
<didrocks> hey czajkowski-from-the-other-side-of-the-world :)
<czajkowski> at least here I have sunshine!
<Laney> also jet lag :P
<czajkowski> 3am yesterday 4am today :/
 * ogra_ hands czajkowski a handfull of melatonin for tomorrow night .... helps a lot with that
<Laney> seb128: xclaesse: Downgrading gnome-keyring to 3.6.3 fixes it here
<Laney> (just that)
<czajkowski> whoo new laptop X1 carbon to play with when I come back to UK
<czajkowski> wiping and installing Ubuntu on it, handed back the air I was given, got some odd looks for that
<davmor2> czajkowski: you can install ubuntu on a mac air you know :)
<hyperair> i hear it's a pain though
<Laney> works fine enough
<hyperair> how's it stability wise?
<Laney> had to install some daemon to control the fans
<Laney> but good
<czajkowski> davmor2: I'd never hear the end of it from the other half :)
<hyperair> cool
<hyperair> are the installation steps suitable for mere mortals, or do you need to be halfway godlike to do so?
<Laney> pretty standard
<hyperair> hmm cool
<Laney> that's not to say that i wouldn't choose a thinkpad given the free choice
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> how are the newer thinkpads with hardware support?
<hyperair> my thinkpad e220s is crap
<hyperair> trackpoint doesn't work properly with suspend/resume, gets detected as ps/2 generic mouse..
<hyperair> and snb-i915 gpu hangs every few hours
<czajkowski> having not used empathy before is there a way to stop the notifications displaying ?
<seb128> mlankhorst, done
<seb128> Laney, ok, it might be worth opening a gnome-keyring upstream bug about it, do you want to do it or should I?
<Laney> I am trying to boot GNOME OS to verify it but I can't get it to work :P
<Laney> if you could that would be good
<seb128> sure, shower first though
<xclaesse> Laney, seb128: which version of gnome-keyring?
<xclaesse> with the gnome3 ppa on raring it works
<xclaesse> 3.8.2-0ubuntu1~raring1
<xclaesse> that should be what saucy has, no?
<Laney> 3.8.2 bad 3.6.3 good
<Laney> just replacing that one package in saucy
<xclaesse> Laney, 3.8.2 works here on raring + gnome3 ppa
<Laney> also works for me in a fedora vm
<Laney> maybe it's something to do with UOA
<xclaesse> I doubt that
<sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/missing_libical/+merge/170040
<xclaesse> Laney, check debug msg of empathy-auth-client
<didrocks> sil2100: ? libical isn't in the stack we are interested in
<didrocks> sil2100: it makes no sense to add it
<didrocks> we don't want to add every dep on our stacks :)
<xclaesse> G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all EMPATHY_DEBUG=all /usr/lib/empathy/empathy-auth-client
<xclaesse> then connect your account
<sil2100> didrocks: but it's failing to do the check job now
<sil2100> didrocks: how can we make it pass then?
<sil2100> SInce it's failing because of extra installed packages
<didrocks> sil2100: check with whole ppa? to disable the check?
<sil2100> didrocks: and will that work from that time onwards?
<didrocks> sil2100: just for that run
<didrocks> ah
<sil2100> didrocks: so next time indicators will fail then
<sil2100> ?
<didrocks> sil2100: hum no
<didrocks> sil2100: because it will move to the release pocket
<Laney> xclaesse: abort_verification: Verification error 6, aborting...
<didrocks> sil2100: and will be installed by default as the transition will end
<didrocks> right?
<Laney> xclaesse: repros for me in a VM too so if you can set one of those up you should be able to get it
<sil2100> didrocks: hm, right!
<didrocks> sil2100: maybe we'll need to redo the container tomorrow morning if it didn't pick the right iso yet, but then, we should be fine
<didrocks> sil2100: I pasted the discussion on the MP for reference :)
<sil2100> didrocks: good! Sometimes I need to remember that it's all 'transition' right now, noting that!
<didrocks> sil2100: no worry, I prefer you ask than doing without this :)
<didrocks> sil2100: even for me, sometimes the big puzzle is quite hard :p
<sil2100> didrocks: is a simple revert like this fine? https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/libappindicator/revert_debian_rules ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: perfect, #nochangelog wasn't really needed as you touched debian/changelog, but fine with it as well :)
<seb128> Laney, xclaesse: p11-kit changed in saucy as well and changed the location of the key files, not sure if some files is still at the old location or something
<sil2100> didrocks:  https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/libappindicator/revert_debian_rules/+merge/170050 then ;) I know I could have pushed directly, buuut I noticed that Mathieu did the commit through a MR, so I would feel silly to push directly without a request
<xclaesse> seb128, could be that, indeed
<Laney> ah
<Laney> seb128: try installing p11-kit
<seb128> Laney, that fixes it?
<Laney> I think so, but I've been monkeying with versions so ...
<Laney> that's where the new trust module thingy is
<Laney> which was removed from g-k in 3.8
<xclaesse> p11-kit is not installed here
<seb128> Laney, yeah, that fixes it!
<Laney> cool
<Laney> should we have g-k depend on that?
<pitti> (FTR, needs MIR)
<Laney> yeah ...
<Laney> should be eligible though
<Laney> oh no wait, the source is already in main
<seb128> pitti, it's only a binary of a source already in main?
<Laney> it is
<seb128> Laney, not sure, is g-k using it or empathy?
<pitti> oh, indeed
<seb128> having g-k depends on it works for me
<Laney> well I see this in NEWS:  * Remove the roots-store module replaced by p11-kit 0.16+ trust module
<Laney> but tbh I don't know how it all fits together
<Laney> yeah they added it in Debian
<Laney> I'll do that now then
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> asac, ^ btw
<seb128> asac, install "p11-kit", should fix the certificate issue
<Laney> grr
 * Laney brings the VCS up to date
<pitti> Laney: oh, speaking of VCS
 * Laney runs
<pitti> Laney: I recently updated the sessioninstaller bzr
<pitti> Laney: no worries :)
<pitti> Laney: and I noticed that you applied some debian/patches/ bits with changes from upstream
<pitti> Laney: this is much easier with bzr bd
<asac> seb128: will that come through ubuntu-desktop now?
<pitti> Laney: next time, just bump the bzr revno in the  0.1.2+bzr1234 version number
<asac> if so i will wait for that :)
<seb128> asac, yes
<asac> (i have since set this warning to ignore, so i might not see it
<asac> )
<Laney> pitti: hm, never done anything like that
<pitti> Laney: bzr bd is clever enough to see this, check out upstream at that rev, build an orig for that, and build a package
<Laney> interesting
<pitti> Laney: like in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sessioninstaller/0.20+bzr134-0ubuntu4
<pitti> mterry did a few of those as well
<Laney> I mean the magic orig stuff
<seb128> oh, come on nautilus, wth, every day it segfaults the first time I click on it
<Laney> sounds cool!
<pitti> Laney: anyway, it's effing awesome magic, and much easier than quilting around :)
<pitti> Laney: just FYI
<Laney> thanks for the tip
<pitti> seb128: oh, je ne suis pas seul !
<seb128> pitti, non, moi aussi ... j'ai gagnÃ© le droit de le dÃ©bugger ?
<pitti> seb128: non, mais j'ai le mis sur Launchpad
<Laney> 3.8 time ;-)
 * pitti looks at today's /var/crash/_usr_bin_nautilus.1000.crash
<pitti> seb128: seems I got the one in gtk_icon_info_get_attach_points(), you as well?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> I wonder if those are after upgrades when the icon cache is refreshed or something
<seb128> Laney, speaking of 3.8 I should build/install it, it's almost ready in the gnome3 vcs
<pitti> peut-Ãªtre, il souvent bloque dans les matins
<pitti> oh, 3.8 for nautilus or for everything/
<pitti> ?
<pitti> I'm just about to start backporting the g-s-d power 3.8 bits to 3.6 (for bug 1180513)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1180513 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "lid close actions are ignored laptop always suspends" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180513
<seb128> pitti, nautilus, g-s-d/g-c-c are the only one missing 3.8 atm I think
<seb128> pitti, so we sort have the set already
<seb128> g-s-d/g-c-c being trickier because of the number of changes they did and our number of patches
<seb128> the fact that they made harder to have external panels (that we need)
<seb128> the depends on the new ibus as well (which is quite broken out of GNOME)
<seb128> pitti, my gut feeling is that it's going us to take at while before having g-s-d/g-c-c ready for the archive, especially that our focus is mobile this cycle ... I wouldn't count on 3.8 to be in saucy
<pitti> ack
<pitti> btw, bug 1187709
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1187709 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_info_get_attach_points()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187709
<seb128> thanks, I will check upstream/valgrind it
<sil2100> seb128: ping :)
<seb128> sil2100, hey
<sil2100> seb128: I'm looking at lp:gnome-control-center-unity/raring right now and the latest commit looks like a fix, but no bug has been attached to it
<sil2100> seb128: would it be much bother to open up a bug for that? Since I guess this way we'll have all the fixes in an SRU documented by bugs that the SRU team could assert
<sil2100> seb128: I would modify the changelog then
<seb128> sil2100, indeed, I wonder why it has no bug info
<seb128> sil2100, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center-unity/1.3daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1
<seb128> sil2100, that saucy upload had one ... I guess I forgot the --fixes lp: when doing the backport
<seb128> sil2100, #1173818 is the bug to use
<seb128> sil2100,  let me update the bug to be SRU compliant
<sil2100> seb128: thanks! Great, I'll modify the changelog then
<seb128> sil2100, bug updated
<czajkowski> Laney: any idea what would cause a geoip crash on raring ?
<czajkowski> keep getting them today
<Laney> czajkowski: 'fraid not
<Laney> do you have any more details?
<Laney> like the program or package that is crashing?
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-geoip/+bug/1157232 is quite a high one on errors
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1157232 in ubuntu-geoip (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-geoip-provider crashed with SIGSEGV in _dbus_header_get_byte_order()" [High,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> Laney: it says it'll send a report but no bug opens
<Laney> it'll be reporting to errors
<seb128> it probably reports the issue to errors.ubuntu.com
<czajkowski> al I know is I'm having to reboot the machine every 20 mins
<czajkowski> :/
<Laney> a geoip crash is making you reboot?
<czajkowski> Laney: everything dies
<czajkowski> wifi goes
<seb128> seems like a kernel issue or something
<Laney> czajkowski: look for a file with the right-ish timestamp in /var/crash (ls -l /var/crash) and then apport-bug /that/file
<czajkowski> seb128: yeah but geoip is the only thing coming up
<czajkowski> Laney: ahhh http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
<Laney> don't think you meant that :P
<czajkowski> nothing to see here
<czajkowski> move along :)
<czajkowski> Laney: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5777262/
<Laney> apport-bug /var/crash/_usr_lib_ubuntu-geoip_ubuntu-geoip-provider.1000.crash
<seb128> czajkowski, firefox 'http://errors.ubuntu.com/user/'$(printf $(sudo cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_uuid) | sha512sum)
<seb128> czajkowski, that should show you the issues you reported to e.u.c
<czajkowski> ah
<Laney> mine is some huge list of uuids
<Laney> would hate to have to find a single crash in that
<seb128> Laney, talk to ev ... ;-)
<Laney> might as well file a bug :P
<czajkowski> wow
<czajkowski> I've a whole lot of data there
<czajkowski> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<pitti>   * Start gsd via user session if starting 'unity' too. This is in preparation
<pitti>     for starting unity directly.
<pitti> Laney: ^ is that ok to upload?
<pitti> Laney: I'm about to do a g-s-d upload to make seb128 happy again
<Laney> pitti: yes, should be a noop currently
<Laney> that unity job doesn't get used
<Laney> but if you want to test it I won't complain ;)
<jbicha> hi, is someone planning to finish the indicator-datetime upload? :)
<pitti> seb128: there, g-s-d uploaded for respecting lid handling action config again
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<seb128> jbicha, sil2100 is working on it
 * pitti goes to update gvfs to 1.17.2
<Laney> ah, back in the land of gnome updates?
<pitti> Laney: it's too hot to do anything which requires serious thought..
<pitti> (after fiddling with g-s-d for two hours ..)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> you can come troll the desktop team meeting in a minute then :P
<Laney> well, 30 minutes
<seb128> rather yes ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: hey what do you think about me uploading gnome-session 3.8 once ical is done? it's been in the desktop ppa for a week
<seb128> urg
<seb128> jbicha, stop pushing so much crack in the archive ;-)
<jbicha> or we could talk about it first :)
<seb128> jbicha, sorry I forgot to test it, I will mention it during the meeting and install it now
<pitti> are there intrusive changes in -session?
<seb128> and test tomorrow
<jbicha> there's not much crack left :)
<seb128> pitti, some yes
<pitti> je peux faire Ã§a aussi, si tu veux
<seb128> pitti, Ã§a serait utile, merci
<seb128> jbicha, pitti: hum, I don't like that much
<seb128> The following NEW packages will be installed:
<seb128>   libsystemd-journal0
<pitti> oh? not here
<pitti> oh, already had it, nevermind
<seb128> pitti, you probably had it
<pitti> Size: 55804
<seb128> do we know how the lib behave if journald is not there?
<seb128> will it spawn an extra service?
<jbicha> I thought pitti said that library was ok but I think it's fairly simple to patch it out if we definitely don't want it
<pitti> it at least survived a reboot, and unity session start
<pitti> guest session is broken in lightdm, but that was the case before already
<seb128> guest session worked here
<seb128> that's all I tried so far, I don't want to restart my user session
<pitti> user switching works as well
<pitti> _sbin_init.1001.crash
<pitti> *cough*
<seb128> urg
<pitti> must have been on logout, I didn't notice anything wrong, except a small delay
<pitti> which reminds me..
<seb128> yeah, I keep hitting segfaults on logout, it's annoying since apport blocks the process and logout takes 10 seconds
<pitti> FTR, that crash is bug 1190526, already reported by Laney
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1190526 in upstart (Ubuntu) "init crashed with SIGABRT in nih_discard()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190526
<Laney> muhahaha
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's meeting time
<seb128> qengho, Laney, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, attente, desrt, larsu, Sweetshark: hey
<mlankhorst> g'day mate
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> qengho, hey
<seb128> ok, no qengho
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hey
<Laney> More work on appearance panel - currently working on a CrossFadeImage comoponent to push to the UI toolkit which it will use. Once this is landed the panel (demoware, with example content) can be merged with system-settings. Turns out the content picker is being worked on by other teams so this, combined with the lack of dconf bindings, means that not much can be done ATM.
<Laney> â¢ Upstream patch to EDS to add a desktop file so it appears in UOA.
<Laney> â¢ Many FTBFS fixes from the rebuild test. Still lots left!
<Laney> â¢ Discuss a bit about language-selector/fontconfig. Gunnar is taking on most of the maintenance here which is great.
<Laney> â¢ Rework unity/unity-panel-service's upstart user session jobs to be more logical, and work ;-).
<Laney> â¢ Debug empathy failing SSL cert verification which turned out to be missing p11-kit.
<Laney> (Discover the nautilus trash crash isn't actually fixed)
<Laney> eof
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> busy week ;-)
<seb128> Laney, merging demoware system settings code is ok, most of it is UI only atm
<seb128> but you need to start somewhere
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> porting bcmwl to 3.10, got ack from peterz about the wound/wait kernel locking, going to be upstream soon, fixing nvidia regression with hybrid graphics, final pieces of raring stack landed, fixing up the lts status report scripts, investigating the pieces required to add support for https://www.opengl.org/registry/specs/EXT/glx_swap_control_tear.txt , melting from heat, and forgetting other stuff I've worked on
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<qengho> seb128: I'm here!
<seb128> qengho, great, your turn if you are ready then ;-)
<qengho> - Was debugging ARM crash, still. Now trying yesterday's release, v28.
<qengho> - Amazon extension feedback. Looking for more unpleasant tricks in their code.
<qengho> The ARM crash was so ugly, I hope it's gone with this version.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<qengho> (ARM crash in gdb, fwiw:   http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5775201/ )
<seb128> Sweetshark, since you are back as well, ready?
<seb128> not it seems...
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hi
<attente> got IBus working with g-s-d 3.6 and gnome-desktop 3.8
<attente> debugged u-g-m autopilot tests
<attente> u-g-m icon support
<attente> worked a bit on the language and text settings panel ui
<attente> eof
<seb128> shrug, I really need to test your indicator!
<seb128> is it in a working state atm? do you have a ppa with it? (does it require fixes to other sources?=
<attente> seb128, it's in a working state, but a few of the packages in the ppa were superceded
<attente> i can re-upload them and let you know when they're all updated
<seb128> which ones do you need?
<seb128> we got the gdk/gtk patches in the distro
<seb128> with the new glib in saucy
<seb128> what else?
<Laney> speaking of menus, they're weird in virt-manager
<attente> there's g-c-c, g-s-d, vala, g-o-i
<attente> there's ubuntu-themes
<Laney> is that ugm related? :-)
<attente> virt-manager? hope not :)
<seb128> attente, do you need all those for the indicator?
<Sweetshark> seb128: back for good
<Sweetshark> seb128: shall I shoot my blurb?
<seb128> attente, in any case please submit merge request with your changes, even if we don't ack them yet it will help to start reviews, etc
<seb128> Sweetshark, one sec, once attente is done
<attente> seb128, you can probably get away without vala and g-o-i since those are build-depends
<attente> there's also ibus 1.5 in the ppa
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird.png
<seb128> ibus , going to be a fun discussion
<attente> seb128, it seems to be working just fine on my system, but what issues were you running into?
<seb128> attente, I'm not using ibus, so none personally ... but there was quite some pushback from other distros on it because it breaks features out of GNOME
<seb128> like "by window layout"
<seb128> there was some setting migration issues as well
<seb128> but that's not a topic for this meeting, we lack people knowing/using ibus in the team and it's going to be a more than 10min discussion
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, you can go
<Sweetshark> - build some prerelease of LibreOffice 4.1.0 beta2
<Sweetshark> -- massive problems with space on ppa buildds
<Sweetshark> -- most arch-indep dependencies (aka java)
<Sweetshark> -- builders do not fail, they just hang with no-space-left-on-device (DDOS?!)
<Sweetshark> -- got a _very_ beta version in anyway, without java: https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-prereleases/+sourcepub/3310247/+listing-archive-extra
<Sweetshark> - released LibreOffice 4.0.4~rc2 into ppa
<Sweetshark> -- this expected to be 4.0.4 final
<Sweetshark> -- we should SRU it after some incubation in the ppa
<Sweetshark> - LibreOffice Hackfest Hamburg 2013 was awesome
<Sweetshark> -- https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Hamburg2013
<Sweetshark> -- reduced dev build time by ~10% on all platforms with one commit: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=66a0713dc9c676182fcd7aa1e21f8dc25c05be5e
<Sweetshark> -- essential group photo: https://plus.google.com/101094190333184858950/posts
<Sweetshark> -- disabled internal unity stuff on backports, this needs raring or later
<Sweetshark> - upcoming plans for next week:
<Sweetshark> -- the evil one: on ppa buildds delete all object files in install-common and friends, before actually installing into ./debian to get back some space (evil hack from hell)
<Sweetshark> -- get liborcus 0.5.1 into saucy
<Sweetshark> EOF
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks, good luck with the hack
<seb128> desrt, hey, there (or busy at the hackfest)?
<didrocks> RuntimeError: the sip module implements API v10.0 but the PyQt4.QtGui module requires API 9.2, does it ring a bell to anyone?
<didrocks> (sorry, meeting)
<seb128> no desrt
<seb128> larsu, hey
<larsu> seb128: sound!
<larsu> widgets for ido are finally done (MR today). Took a bit longer than expected because they were very intermingled with dbusmenu code
<larsu> did some small fixes on the sound indicator service, most importantly it didn't procide a way to set microphone volume yet. Doing that right now, after that it should be ready for review as well
<larsu> started reviewing the other indicators that are landing this week
<larsu> </lars>
<seb128> yeah for indicators landing!
<larsu> we're getting there :)
<seb128> larsu, do you know what's the status of gsettings-qml on qt5?
 * kenvandine hopes for a positive answer...
<seb128> as Laney mentioned, we could sort of use access to gsettings keys for system settings :p
<larsu> seb128: oh right - the qt bug that blocked me is fixed and in a ppa
<kenvandine> WOOT
<larsu> I'll update dconf-qt for qt5 this week
<larsu> it's the next thing on my list after getting the sound MRs out
<seb128> great
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> my turn
<Laney> sweet
<seb128> - lot of system settings hacking, got the about panel UI mostly done and following the design
<seb128> - some bug fixing there and there
<seb128> - looked at some of the ftbfses from doko's rebuild
<seb128> - some desktop updates
<seb128> but it was mostly system settings this week
<seb128> starting look at doing "backend work", but yeah, no easy access to gsettings values or dbus methods from qml sucks
<seb128> </summary>
<seb128> I'm going to try to have a look at nautilus 3.8 for next week (and indicator-keyboard)
<seb128> ok, 3 minutes before didrocks' takes the channel
<seb128> comments/question/...?
<seb128> larsu, I guess you know what's the status on gmenumodel based indicators ... is that going to start landing soon? is unity7 compatible with those?
<seb128> (sort of overlapping topic so I'm asking there)
<seb128> larsu, we could also use those backend and qmenumodel for system settings... ;-)
<larsu> seb128: yes, after dconf
<larsu> seb128: I have a branch almost ready
<larsu> just some minor things and cleanup, and a review
<seb128> we need to clone larsu :p
<larsu> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/qmenumodel/add-unitymenumodel
<larsu> haha
<didrocks> cyphermox: kenvandine: sil2100: robru: hey, meeting time!
<didrocks> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=0
<didrocks> how are you guys?
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<kenvandine> yo
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy ;-)
<didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
<sil2100> Hello!
<didrocks> I'll take silence from robru and cyphermox as a yes :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<cyphermox> yeah
 * kenvandine was doing well until trying to build signon-ui for powerpc :/
<didrocks> ok, let's make a quick round up!
<didrocks> Finding the root cause of the Unity autopilot problems, with the DBus hang-ups: not a priority for now, but mhr3 is looking at it
 * sil2100 pokes robotfuel 
<sil2100> uuuh, robotfuel sorry
 * sil2100 pokes robru 
<didrocks> WebCred: Fix autopilot tests keyring issue. kenvandine, I think you are working on getting the stack on shapes first?
<kenvandine> the autopilot was blocked on me getting otto, is that ready for me to use?
<kenvandine> that and i've been working on other things :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, can you get me some simple docs on setting up otto?
<didrocks> kenvandine: should be, but not docs, as no time yet :p
<sil2100> Yay for otto \o/
<didrocks> kenvandine: let's see a little bit later, I don't think it's a priority for now, right?
<kenvandine> my top priority right now is getting signon-ui for powerpc
<kenvandine> so we can get it out of -proposed
<didrocks> yeah, good luck! ;)
<didrocks> seems fun :p
<kenvandine> not really :)
 * didrocks hands off his card of powerpc lover to kenvandine
<kenvandine> and lots of settings work coming in
<kenvandine> i did successfully add a facebook account on the nexus 4 with system-settings :)
<didrocks> sweet :)
<didrocks> ok, next topic: raring SRU
<didrocks> I think sil2100 won that one from Mirv :)
<sil2100> Yes! Changelogs fixed, merges for adding bug numbers are done
<didrocks> I did some changes to the daily release so that we can use another ppa for staging SRUs
<didrocks> and not having launchpad removed
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, so all should be good tomorrow?
<sil2100> Awesome
<didrocks> so that we can publish to this staging ppa and ask the sync to UNAPPROVED?
<sil2100> didrocks: yes, I'll just double-check the bugs if they're SRU-compatible
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks! so this one should be fixed by tomorrow :)
<didrocks> next one
<didrocks> daily release of libpam-freerdp
<didrocks> this is for a ken :p
<didrocks> kenvandine: ^
<kenvandine> yeah... still on my list
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> then, there was a new component list
<didrocks> I think this is all excellently handled, right sil2100 ?
<sil2100> Yes, well, not excellently, but we managed ;p
<didrocks> ahah
<sil2100> So all the listed components are NEWed now
<didrocks> \o/
 * didrocks looks at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue
<didrocks> nothing from us, few!
<didrocks> nice work!
<didrocks> ok, the 2 next are for cyphermox
<didrocks> first one is the indicators-client to readd
<cyphermox> aye.
<cyphermox> indicators-client readd in in progress
<didrocks> as we discussed, we'll do that just after indicators finally publishes :)
<cyphermox> yup
<didrocks> thanks cyphermox! do we have integration tests?
<cyphermox> we do, there's a chewie_client autopilot suite of tests
 * didrocks removes the line "/me looks at tedg with brown eyes"
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> so we are going to enable those as well?
<cyphermox> it's in the merge proposal
<didrocks> sweet
<didrocks> sil2100: do you mind approving + deploying it once you published the indicator stack?
<didrocks> cyphermox: meanwhile: "Fix indicator-network and re-enable it for the indicator stack tests", any news?
<sil2100> cyphermox: where's the merge proposal for that?
<cyphermox> didrocks: I re-asked ted this morning, it's depending on some libindicator changes, but will get done soon. for now we can just leave it out
<sil2100> cyphermox: I'll bookmark it
<didrocks> cyphermox: let's wait for ted then, thanks! mind updating the spreadsheet with this info? :)
<cyphermox> yup
<didrocks> ok, then, for the next one, we need robru
<didrocks> we saw some progress AFAIK on the daily_release: False package
<didrocks> but it's still in progress
<didrocks> next one is for me, cleaning all packages, same progress, but need some double checking
<didrocks> cyphermox: kenvandine: sil2100: any issues on  your package list from that list? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5741741/
<sil2100> didrocks: re-checking
<sil2100> didrocks: do you have anything particular in mind?
<didrocks> sil2100: not that I know, I'm not sure if there were blockers for anyone on the list
<kenvandine> i think i proposed branches for all the packages in my stacks
<didrocks> but I'll check individually I guess :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: needing reviews?
<didrocks> kenvandine: or let upstream doing them?
<didrocks> (I'm fine with both)
<kenvandine> upstream
<didrocks> good :)
<kenvandine> i think they might have all been reviewed
<didrocks> (less work \o/)
<kenvandine> i'll double check
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> ok, then we listed some daily release enhancements + tracking the unity upstart revert which is now fixed thanks to Laney's help!
<didrocks> last item
<didrocks> I think mlankhorst is really eager to migrate to the new Xorg
<didrocks> (1.14?)
<mlankhorst> yes
<didrocks> it needs an unity patch, mlankhorst who worked on this unity side already?
<didrocks> was it Trevinho?
<mlankhorst> the patch is in the x-staging ppa, Sarvatt might know
<sil2100> We'll release the old unity soon I guess, indicators I'd like to unblock before that, so we're waiting on the python-qt patch
<didrocks> ok, sil2100, once this one is done, do you want to take that transition in charge? ^
<didrocks> coordinate with mlankhorst and Sarvatt on it
<sil2100> ACK! Hope I won't screw up ;)
<didrocks> (we'll probably use -proposed as for libical)
<didrocks> sil2100: ask if anything
<sil2100> You can assign that to me
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks man! :)
<didrocks> I think xorg should breaks: current_unity
<Trevinho> didrocks: no bschaefer did that
<didrocks> then, we try to release unity with the new patch using proposed
<didrocks> Trevinho: thanks for the pointer :)
 * didrocks marks the names in the spreadsheet
<didrocks> any questions meanwhile?
 * bschaefer wonders what i've done
<bschaefer> Trevinho, what did I do?
<didrocks> bschaefer: bad things! like an unity patch for new xorg :p
<mlankhorst> didrocks: it's not as much that it breaks Xorg, it's the depends on libxi/xfixes
<bschaefer> didrocks, well...yeah :) that should be a good thing!
<didrocks> mlankhorst: ok, you will deal the xorg side so that it can be transitionned without the new unity?
<didrocks> bschaefer: do you have a branch to point us at?
<bschaefer> didrocks, yes, let me get a link
<mlankhorst> will it be for today? it's EOD for me and I'm leaving shortly
<bschaefer> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/unity/move-pointer-barrier-to-xi-1.6.99.1
<didrocks> mlankhorst: ah no, it's for this week :)
<mlankhorst> ah good
<mlankhorst> bbl!
<didrocks> mlankhorst: we hope to be able to release unity+indicators this week
<didrocks> mlankhorst: let's do that as the next step :)
<didrocks> (this week/today)
<didrocks> mlankhorst: enjoy!
<didrocks> thanks bschaefer
<bschaefer> didrocks, np! have fun getting that all set up :)
<sil2100> didrocks: btw. you think I could run the unity tests with "whole PPA" to force it to use the new hud, bamf and indicators ;)?
<didrocks> sil2100: I'm adding myself as a backup :)
<didrocks> sil2100: let's discuss that now if the meeting is over for the others?
<didrocks> thanks eveyrone
<sil2100> didrocks: since I guess many failures might be fixed by those
<sil2100> Ok
<didrocks> everyone*
<didrocks> sil2100: so, let's try to unblock indicators for now
<didrocks> sil2100: I think we can workaround the problem
<Laney> btw I checked on libical and it seems to me that indicator-datetime is the only thing left holding that transition
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, but sip has a broken transition and that's breaking all the tests running
<sil2100> Laney: ok, thanks, we enabled -proposed and rebuilt it, but have some problems related to some things happening in -proposed
<didrocks> sil2100: it's worse, it's in the release pocket as well
<didrocks> (the sip issue)
<Laney> the tests for datetime itself or something else?
<didrocks> Laney: all the autopilot tests
<didrocks> pyqt4 is bailing out
<sil2100> uuu
<Laney> I'm secretly suggesting that you (or I) can upload just datetime and it will make that transition finish
<Laney> it's only the build fix since distro
<seb128> Laney, I tried suggested that this morning as well :p
<didrocks> Laney: seb128: we have quite some changes in the indicator stacks
<didrocks> we could force a publication as well
<didrocks> workarounding and not testing with new libical doesn't sound good to me :)
<didrocks> I have a solution, let us try
<seb128> k
<didrocks> it's juts a pity that some stack can be broken for days and that sip was uploaded breaking even moreâ¦
<didrocks> (it's this kind of direct uploads which is the cause of the pain :p)
<sil2100> didrocks: how do you want to workaround this?
<didrocks> sil2100: see my pings :)
<didrocks> no need to fill the channel with uninteresting detailsâ¦
<rickspencer3> seb128, my new computer ... Wireless works fine here, but refuses go connect with a certain WEP access point
<rickspencer3> seb128, do you think this is a driver issue? if so, is there still Jockey built in to help me out with this?
<seb128> cyphermox, ^ help ;-)
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: yes, likely a driver issue
<czajkowski> cyphermox: ping, am having a lot of connection issues today on raring, never had them before, others in the office are fine. wondering was there any udpates done today?
<cyphermox> what driver is this?
<cyphermox> czajkowski: no
<cyphermox> czajkowski: kernel update perhaps?
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: can you tell me what "grep wlan.*driver /var/log/syslog" reports?
 * kenvandine stabs ppc, but it lives on!
<rickspencer3> cyphermox,
<rickspencer3> Jun 18 09:41:29 rick-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U310-Touch NetworkManager[908]: <info> (wlan0): driver supports Access Point (AP) mode
<rickspencer3> Jun 18 09:41:29 rick-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U310-Touch NetworkManager[908]: <info> (wlan0): new 802.11 WiFi device (driver: 'iwlwifi' ifindex: 3)
<cyphermox> huh, that one should work great for WEP too
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, well, I'm on WEP here
<cyphermox> does the AP have special caracters in the name?
<rickspencer3> it was just one certain access point
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, yes, there is an apostrophe
<rickspencer3> NM works
<rickspencer3> it asks me for the password
<rickspencer3> but then it fails to connect
<cyphermox> I don't think an apostrophe would block connecting to WEP though
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: could you send me a copy of syslog? I'll take a look at all the errors NM throws, if any
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, sure
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: btw, for battery use, I was able to reproduce it here on saucy
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, you mean on the phone?
<rickspencer3> that's great news!
<cyphermox> yeah, so it's a first step to actually fixing the issue
<czajkowski> cyphermox: sent to pm
<cyphermox> czajkowski: ack
<cyphermox> I'm going to go grab some food; I'm starving
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, I send the syslog to your email
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: ok, I'll have another thing for you to check
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, ok
<cyphermox> or actually, I'll just look in syslog
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: saucy or raring?
<rickspencer3> it's annoying that I won't be back at that access point until tonight :/
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, saucy
<rickspencer3> fresh install
<cyphermox> doh
<rickspencer3> d'oh ?
<rickspencer3> saucy ftw
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: I was kind of hoping it was an issue like czajkowski ;)
<cyphermox> which seems to be a kernel regression, tbh
<rickspencer3> oh well
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: Jun 18 08:29:40 rick-Lenovo-IdeaPad-U310-Touch kernel: [ 6598.038710] wlan0: AP 00:24:b2:db:d7:30 changed bandwidth in a way we can't support - disconnect
<cyphermox> ^ this is my guess at the problem
<cyphermox> it's the first time I see this
<cyphermox> I'll need to look it up to see what triggers it
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, well, there was one access point that I could connect to, but it would disconnect occasionally
<rickspencer3> that message could be from that access point
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: it's from the AP that has an apostrophe
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, ok, that's the busted one :/
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, here's the thing ...
<rickspencer3> my phone works fine with that access point
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I'm not surprised
<cyphermox> it seems like you're getting inconsistent informations from the AP about the frequency to use
<cyphermox> well, the bandwidth to be precise
<cyphermox> but it's likely the kernel not understanding it
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: could you file a bug against 'linux' for that?
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, sure
<cyphermox> rickspencer3: you should add the make and model of the router maybe too, if it's available
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, it's not available to me
<cyphermox> just in case it's broken router firmware, that the phone is able to workaround
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> when you said phone, you obviously meant touch, right?
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, why would the phone work around it and not my laptop?
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, yes
<rickspencer3> I meant yesterday's Nexus 4 image
<cyphermox> so it would be a new kernel thing in saucy probably
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, can you put what you know in bug #1192259 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1192259 in linux (Ubuntu) "wireless access point won't connect- changed bandwidth in a way we can't support - disconnect" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192259
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> now I'm really going to go get food before it's too late
<cyphermox> brb
<Sweetshark> ahhh, great. I just realized that libreoffice 4.0.2 fails to rebuild on armhf ...
<robru> cyphermox, kenvandine sil2100 : sorrry! forgot about the meeting :-(
<attente> seb128, i'm not able to MP on lp:ubuntu/vala-0.20. the only way i can push the branch is if i target vala, but if it targets vala, it says it's unmergeable :(
<Sweetshark> ... to make it more fun its actually gcc-4.8 being either too stupid or too clever for itself, as that are both of the way it can end in an 'internal error'
<Sweetshark> ... well, there is a third possibility: hardware fluke or cosmic rays ...
<seb128> attente, oh, just open a bug with the patch then
<sil2100> robru: ah HA!
 * sil2100 slaps robru around a bit with a large trout
<sil2100> UNFORGIVABUBURU
<robru> sil2100, eww, slimy
 * sil2100 is a bit too tired so he's spouting nonsense
<rickspencer3> til that you can DOUBLE click on an app in the dash to just launch it
<rickspencer3> I assumed it was a bug that it kept going to the preview
<robru> rickspencer3, same here. I think it's dumb though... single click should launch, right click should open more info. that would be consistent with every other UI ever
<rickspencer3> robru, tbh, I think it's fine
<jbicha> rickspencer3: it is a bug though ;) bug 1189088
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1189088 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Unity Dash, left mouse button starts preview instead of directly the application" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1189088
<rickspencer3> robru, well, phones and tablets don't have right click
<rickspencer3> I think making it work the same across my devices is sweet
<jbicha> newer GNOME stuff uses long click (or right-click) to pull up additional options, I'm expecting that Nautilus will do that eventually
<rickspencer3> not to get dragged into a design flamewar ;)
<robru> jbicha, I agree actually, long click / right click for more options/context, single click to just launch.
<jbicha> hmm, maybe it's not long-click yet; there's a dedicated â button though
<robru> sil2100, still around?
<desrt> oh no.  i missed the meeting :(
<kenvandine> desrt, you missed it hours ago :)
<sil2100> robru: yes, now I am
<robru> sil2100, oh hey, I'm just stepping out for lunch. was wondering if you could redeploy cu2d-config for me. I landed all those changes for daily releasing webapps
<sil2100> robru: ok, redeployment of webapps stack, yes?
<sil2100> robru: did you add any new packages?
<robru> sil2100, well, no hurry, you can wait for jenkins to do the release. I just want you to copy the -config branch to the jenkins server
<robru> sil2100, yeah, there's a bunch of new ones
<robru> sil2100, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/cupstream2distro-config/enable-many-webapps/+merge/169570 here is the list of apps that have been enabled for daily_release
<sil2100> robru: ok, so tomorrow we'll have to poke didier regarding the new ones, I'll note that down for the morning
<robru> sil2100, yeah, didier said he'd handle it
<sil2100> robru: since he needs to modify the filtering :)
<robru> sil2100, alright, thanks!
 * robru heads for lunch
<sil2100> robru: thanks for handling that!
<sil2100> robru: redeployed if anything!
<robru> sil2100, great, thanks a bunch. we'll leave the rest for didrocks tomorrow ;-)
<TheMuso> grrr I am getting regular compiz crashes  here...
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-19
<pitti> Good morning
<Tm_T> sv/aelyu sv
<pitti> Tm_T: I hope it was your cat and not your password :)
<Tm_T> pitti: heh, I managed to post something? I had two irssis running on top of each other, I simply tried to close this nicely but ended up killing the processes
<Tm_T> I wonder how that whole mess even happened
<sil2100> Morning! Damn, I overslept, went to sleep too late
<didrocks> sil2100: hey, how are you?
<didrocks> (apart from this oversleeping ;))
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks, sil2100
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<sil2100> didrocks: hi! After python-qt4 got finally published, I had to re-run indicators twice - since for the first time we had some failures on one machine
<sil2100> didrocks: I wonder how it looks now
<didrocks> sil2100: but it didn't publish?
<didrocks> sil2100: from what I see, not really good
<didrocks> sil2100: I propose that we unblock that with a hangout if you don't mind
<didrocks> (after your coffee)
<sil2100> Well, yesterday it failed 4 tests on one machine, I re-run it but didn't see the results, hope it all looks ok - I also ran unity with whole-ppa enabled, but I'll look at the stacks in a moment and know what's up
<didrocks> sil2100: shouldn't we have this hangout? all the stacks tests fail and I prefer that we debug together
<didrocks> (you can see in 2 minutes that all the stacks failed btw :p)
<sil2100> Need VPN to work with a cherry on top pleaase
<sil2100> :D
<didrocks> heh, is it failing for you?
<didrocks> (and can you please answer by yes or no on the hangout question? :p)
<sil2100> Ok, ready
<sil2100> Let's hang out
<sil2100> didrocks: hm, why are those tests failing now I wonder? Yesterday at night they actually ran with the new python-qt
<sil2100> didrocks: this is the first run I made: 10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-2.2check/196/
<sil2100> The second one was the same, but hm, strangly also the same number of failures
<sil2100> And now suddenly the sip problem again
<didrocks> sil2100: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2175b6828a78257a1bc2f4243a84d6bb5ad5c333 in case you didn't receive the notification :)
<Laney> g'morning
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<Laney> pretty good thanks
<Laney> you
<Laney> ?
<mlankhorst> morning!
<mlankhorst> Laney: I learned that I shouldn't try to overtake, or even try to tail, bikers who wear special glasses..
<Laney> special glasses?!?!?!?!
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks, enjoying the not-so-warm-yet temperature of the morning
<Laney> hah, I remember now - today was supposed to be storm day
<mlankhorst> biker glasses or something, those that don't allow air to pass to the eyes
<Laney> oh yes
<mlankhorst> http://www.bikester.nl/344505.html things like those
<Laney> too fast? :P
<mlankhorst> definitely!
<Laney> I should get some bike shorts
<sil2100> didrocks: hmmm, it seems the Apps tests for ati are having some problems
<didrocks> sil2100: have you poked upstream? they should help fixing those :)
<sil2100> didrocks: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/autopilot-saucy-daily_release/170/label=autopilot-ati/console
<sil2100> Hard to say what's up, since it looks a bit hanged ;p
<sil2100> It doesn't want to finish!
<didrocks> jibel: hey, do you have time to have a look? ^ quite stuck on the webcreds part
<jibel> didrocks, sure, looking
<didrocks> thanks
<sil2100> jibel, didrocks: I saw some errors in the tests, i.e. in the autopilot parts, but still, it's hanged
<seb128> Laney, hey, did you see andyrocks updated the patch for nautilus/trash segfault? in case you didn't start on it let it to me, I've another patch I want to include in the upload
<Laney> seb128: yeah I'm looking at it atm as it happens
<seb128> Laney, k, please don't upload then, just commit to the vcs
<Laney> it does fix the crash but it's not /right/
<Laney> you get a warning about the signal handler not existing
<seb128> oh?
<Laney> don't know why
<jibel> didrocks, sil2100 autopilot process is running but is waiting on something (it's looping on [pid 13445] select(5, [4], [], [], {0, 500000}) = 0 (Timeout))
<jibel> didrocks, sil2100 there is the following message in dbus.log, I don't know if there is a relation:
<jibel> start: Job is already running: hud
<jibel> Failed to activate service 'com.canonical.hud': timed out
<sil2100> hmmm
<jibel> didrocks, sil2100 I cannot connect to the KVM to see what's happening on the screen, the java plugin is broken again
<darkxst> seb128, if I get g-s-d 3.8 ready to run with g-c-c 3.6, can we get that onto the ubuntu-desktop ppa?
<darkxst> although not real sure on the whole ibus situation, currently that is disabled in the gnome3 builds
<seb128> darkxst, g-s-d 3.8 and g-c-c 3.6 ... sounds good, I will review it if you get it working, once step at the time is better
<sil2100> jibel: hm, so what can we do now besides killing the job?
<sil2100> That's the first time this is happening, maybe it's just a singular case?
<sil2100> jibel: not sure if it makes sense to block all other test jobs
<jibel> plugin fixed, wrong alternative
<darkxst> seb128, ok, will do
<seb128> darkxst, thanks
<didrocks> sil2100: just a note, don't touch the webcreds stack please :)
<sil2100> didrocks: ACK ;)
<didrocks> thx!
<jibel> sil2100, didrocks so on the screen, everything is there (launcher, menus, ...) and responsive, just autopilot which is waiting for something
<jibel> sil2100, it could be a broken tests waiting for an event that'll never happen? I saw something similar when autopilot was trying to reach an icon that was out of the screen on the launcher.
<jibel> sil2100, I kill the webbrower_app test
<sil2100> jibel: hm, it might be, since I saw some errors in the webbrowser tests when looking at the logs
<sil2100> So something might have been broken, but it will be hard to see what - normally everything is handled by timeouts, so it should be impossible
<sil2100> As we're using Eventually() for every waiting condition, which has a default 10 second timeout
<jibel> sil2100, anyway, it was the last test and all 78 ran http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Autopilot%20Release%20Testing/job/autopilot-saucy-daily_release/170/testReport/
<sil2100> But so many failed?
<jibel> sil2100, 23 failed
<sil2100> jibel: thanks! Let me check that and re-run later, thanks for the analysis ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: indicators passed! (one test failing, below the threshold)
<didrocks> hud*
<didrocks> now indicators?
<didrocks> sil2100: hud in manual publication apparently
<sil2100> First I re-run Apps
<didrocks> let's cross fingers :)
<sil2100> In the meantime, let me publish HUD - it's safe to use with old unity (just tested)
<sil2100> didrocks: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/HUD/job/cu2d-hud-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_hud_13.10.1daily13.06.19-0ubuntu1.diff/*view*/ <- look ok, can I publish? ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: +1 :)
<seb128> \o/
<Laney> seb128: ok, got a fix ...
<Laney> let me attach it upstream and push to bzr
<seb128> Laney, great, thanks
<Laney> It changes how it does the disconnection because I didn't understand why it was already disconnected :P
 * Laney prepares to get abused a bit
<seb128> lol
<sil2100> didrocks: can I publish the apps stack? As it's deping on webcreds
<sil2100> (all tests passed \o/)
<sil2100> I guess it's ok to publish ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: sure sure, I trust you, and you don't need me if there is no packaging change for an ack!
<didrocks> sil2100: so, indicators now?
<sil2100> Yesss ;)
<Laney> seb128: ok pushed
<Laney> yay indicators
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<didrocks> Laney: tests didn't pass yet, don't declare victory :)
<didrocks> seb128: the unity_gtk_modules tests never passed since we added it, can we have attente having a look?
<didrocks> sil2100: I think we should force the publication even if the tests are failing as it's the unity_gtk_modules ones, wdyt?
<didrocks> sil2100: as all the other tests seem good
<didrocks> apart from those flacky unity gtk module ones
<didrocks> right?
<sil2100> Yep, and I upgraded and checked: new indicators don't seem to break old unity
<didrocks> ok :)
<sil2100> didrocks: should I just run the publish job then?
<sil2100> (without force)
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, I guess then it will be in manual publication, but at least, we'll see why :)
<sil2100> Lots and lots of packaging changes to browse through! Uh oh ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: I removed libical1 from the list FYI
<didrocks> sil2100: or maybe, let's wait for the next iso to clean that
<didrocks> sil2100: have you restarted the version? bamf changes still works with old unity?
<seb128> didrocks, do you guys need extra testers? I can opt in the ppa if wanted
<didrocks> seb128: if you can upgrade bamf without the rest, that would be helpful, please
<sil2100> didrocks: I installed new bamf and ran a guest session
<seb128> ok, from what ppa? ubuntu-unity/daily-build/ubuntu saucy?
<sil2100> didrocks: and unity wasn't broken, launcher worked, pips appearing, switcher ok
<didrocks> sil2100: waow, that's awesome seeing the port! :)
<didrocks> seb128: ubuntu-unity/daily-build saucy, yet
<sil2100> didrocks: I'm checking the diffs now ;)
<didrocks> yeah*
<didrocks> sil2100: doing the same as well to not loose time, but good practice for you :)
 * didrocks snifs seeing no trailing comma on gnome-screensaver
<didrocks> jbicha!!! :p
<sil2100> didrocks: hmmm, libusermetrics should export symbols in .symbols? Since it's C++ and the symbol names are mangled ;/
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, it passed and built on all archs though. So it will be interesting to see with pete how it works now
<didrocks> sil2100: maybe the check is only run on the same arch now
<seb128> didrocks, sil2100: new bamf works fine on saucy
<didrocks> (thanks seb128
<seb128> np
<sil2100> didrocks: besides those small things the diffs look ok
<sil2100> didrocks: how do you think, can I publish?
<sil2100> s/how/what
<didrocks> sil2100: there is maybe an issue on http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_libindicator_12.10.2daily13.06.19-0ubuntu1.diff
<didrocks> -usr/share/libindicator/80indicator-debugging /usr/share/libindicator/
<didrocks> in debian/libindicator-tools.install
<didrocks> and +usr/share/libindicator/80indicator-debugging /usr/share/libindicator/
<didrocks> in debian/libindicator3-tools.install
<didrocks> without any replaces: from libindicator3-tools against libindicator-tools
<didrocks> let's see what files are shipped exactly by the current version
<didrocks> and what files are shipped with the new version
<sil2100> Now that you mention it, indeed
<didrocks> ok ./usr/share/libindicator/80indicator-debugging is a file
<seb128> Laney, pitti, jasoncwarner_: btw I just uploaded a gtk update with a patch to fix the segfault after upgrades bug
<didrocks> sil2100: so missing Replaces :/
<sil2100> Noooo~!
<didrocks> ted! this is clearly not your first package
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, let's see if we can rebuild just that package
<sil2100> didrocks: without running the check job?
<Laney> seb128: good work, so it wasn't in nautilus
<didrocks> sil2100: or with, it doesn't take that long
<Laney> you might want to reassign the bug then
<seb128> Laney, no, it was gtk not refreshing is icon cache correctly when the one on disk was changing
<didrocks> sil2100: tip of trunk is rev 498
<didrocks> +  * Automatic snapshot from revision 498
<didrocks> ok, no additional commit
<Laney> fair
<seb128> Laney, good point ... done ;-)
<didrocks> sil2100: I'm tempted to directly push to trunk to speed up the process, the diff is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5780054/
<didrocks> sil2100: any opinion?
<didrocks> urgh, one sec
<didrocks> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5780058/
<didrocks> sil2100: ^
<sil2100> Ah, ok, you mean the first one, yes?
<didrocks> sil2100: the second one
<seb128> didrocks, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/libindicator/trunk.13.10/revision/498
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> interesting
<didrocks> sil2100: I haven't committed back :p
<seb128> didrocks, NULL means "turn off" apparently
<sil2100> ;)
<didrocks> seb128: ignore my diff :p
<seb128> k
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5780066/
<didrocks> sil2100: seb128: this should be more within context ^ :p
<sil2100> didrocks: yes, much better now ;)
<sil2100> I prefer this version than the 3 ;p
<didrocks> ahah
 * didrocks pushes upstream
<didrocks> sil2100: so, rebuild only libindicator please
<sil2100> o>
<didrocks> the test taking few minutes, we can afford them running
<didrocks> sil2100: all the other packaging changes are +1 for me, so then, we can force the publication
<sil2100> didrocks: the check job still has the libical added, yes?
<sil2100> Rebuilding!
<didrocks> sil2100: yep, after all, let's remove it once we get a new iso :
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, looks fine to me
<didrocks> great!
 * sil2100 still waiting for armhf of libindicators to start building
<sil2100> ;|
<didrocks> sil2100: well, we are waiting on the tests as well, right? as unity tests are running?
<didrocks> sil2100: are you sure it's not built? looking at the ppa, only amd64 is still building
<sil2100> Aaah!
<sil2100> hahah, sorry, misread amd64 for armhf
<sil2100> ;)
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> ETOOMANYA ;)
 * ogra_ grins about didrocks and sil2100  .... and wonders what they will do once we have arm64 
<didrocks> ogra_: I'll buffer overflow my head I think :)
<ogra_> haha
<sil2100> didrocks: could you nominate to precise? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/1192216 ;)
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1192216 in bamf (Ubuntu) "Bamf is not building in jenkins due to missing coverage xml and xunit formatted tests" [Undecided,New]
<sil2100> I mean!
<sil2100> To raring!
<sil2100> ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: is it something we should really backport? we don't have merger to precise
<didrocks> ah :)
 * sil2100 needs coffee
<didrocks> ok
<sil2100> ;(
<didrocks> sil2100: if it's fixed in saucy, please change the main status :)
<ogra_> broken signon-ui deps made all image builds explode today (for all arches) ... is someone on that ?
<Laney> it was discussed at some length in #ubuntu-devel this morning
<Laney> component-mismatches don't get checked by proposed-migration
<ogra_> yeah
<didrocks> sil2100: seb128: still same failures on unity_gtk_module tests FYI, but I guess good to publish the indicators stack
<seb128> didrocks, k
<attente> sil2100, the tests didn't pass for you even after https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-gtk-module/edit-undo-fix/+merge/169207?
<sil2100> attente: hi! I'm not sure, since I remembered that one of your fixes fixed those tests, but then I saw that they were failing since at least a week now, so not sure hmm
<attente> sil2100, i think it's the same problem looking at the recent jenkins logs; that edit-undo test is causing all the other ones to fail
<attente> if we merge this MP in, then maybe it'll be fixed
<seb128> sil2100, didrocks: ^ just get that pending fix merged and enjoy working tests? :-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/142834255/libreoffice_1%3A4.1.0~beta2-0ubuntu1~ppa3_1%3A4.1.0~beta2~incompleteinternals1-0ubuntu1~ppa7.diff.gz <- the mother of all hacks
<seb128> Sweetshark, does it work? ;-)
<sil2100> Uh
<sil2100> attente: approving!
<Sweetshark> seb128: locally yes, but if it holds on the ppa buildds: we will see -- still building ....
<attente> :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: removing the object files before installing frees some 10GB for sure ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: we should have a hangout soonish to talk about how to set up a proper split build ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, I'm not sure I know enough about the topic to be useful in an hangout discussion .... maybe better to bounce some details/reading via email first?
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep. its not super urgent.
<attente> seb128, i just did an upload of indicator-keyboard to the ppa, can you try it out? https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/indicator-keyboard
<seb128> attente, sure
<seb128> attente, why did you split the schemas in its own binary?
<attente> seb128, i wanted gnome-control-center to only depend on the schema and not the indicator
<seb128> attente, the proper way is to put the key is gsettings-desktop-schemas
<attente> now that i think about it, i probably should've uploaded all the other ibus engines as well since some may be incompatible with 1.5
<seb128> in*
<seb128> attente, if that's a key supposed to be shared by components
<seb128> attente, that's where most of the schemas for most desktop settings are
<attente> seb128, ok, i'll move it over
<attente> funny thing is that was where i had it originally
<seb128> attente, do you handle upgrades in some way? my test users had 4 layouts before I restarted my session with french as default and now it has only english
<dobey> desrt, jbicha, or anyone really: do you know how i can get my Alt_L key to work properly in GNOME 3.x again? i can't find a setting to make it work right, and it's not working right in terminal, emacs, firefox, or lots of apps :(
<attente> seb128, it doesn't handle migrations of old layouts. i'll see if i can write a postinst script
<seb128> attente, thanks, postinst is the wrong level though
<seb128> attente, usually it's better to do it in the code, like a migration gsettings key and do the migration if it's unset
<seb128> attente, the packaging system might not have access to user dirs if they are encrypted, or on nfs not mounted
<seb128> attente, you can maybe have a look at how GNOME did the migration, I guess they handle it in some way
<attente> seb128, sure, thanks
<jbicha> dobey: works here, maybe you set Alt_L as a keyboard shortcut somewhere; do you still have the problem with a new clean user account?
<dobey> jbicha: i never set just Alt_L as a shortcut. it works fine under Unity. and ALt_L+drag, and Alt_L+tab work fine in gnome. :-/
<seb128> jbicha, gnome-session 3.8 seems fine to me, if you want to upload
<seb128> attente, good news is that your indicator and settings panel work great for me ;-)
<seb128> attente, great work!
<seb128> attente, I've just a problem with the icons used for the keymap ... how do you determine those?
<dobey> and i've looked through all the keybinding settings in dconf-editor to see if something obvious was screwing with it, but didn't see anything
<attente> seb128, the icons are in the ubuntu-mono package
<dobey> jbicha: oh, and Alt_L does the right thing, if i press Super+Alt_L+whatever, which is really weird
<attente> seb128, we ended up throwing them all into there as svgs generated by the indicator source package
<attente> but what's the issue exactly?
<attente> (i know there's at least one bug with the icon not switching properly when "new windows are set to use the default source")
<dobey> and Alt_R works as normal, but using it for everything is really annoying, especially with the extra long space bar on this keyboard
<seb128> attente, http://ubuntuone.com/3cwRL3UgG6bP0VTsIfbJuf ... is that normal icons?
<seb128> attente, sorry took me a bit to take a screenshot, there is a bug in saucy, if you undock your laptop it seems the screenshot try to snap content on screens that are off
<seb128> attente, the coloring is buggy (maybe that's because I don't use the default theme) and french should be "Fr", not "FA"
<attente> seb128, ok. i have a good idea of what's happening there
<seb128> attente, out of that problem things work great for me as a "multiple layout user"
<attente> *phew*!
<seb128> attente, I don't use ibus nor write any language that require it, so I can't really test ... but our g-s-d based indicator was only doing keyboard layouts so what we got there is already great and enough to replace it
<attente> seb128, ok, no problem, i'll fix up these issues so that we can push for more users testing
<seb128> attente, I will try to unblock the ibus 1.5 situation meanwhile
<seb128> that will be a first thing needed
<seb128> attente, oh, other problem ... you will need to port unity-greeter, they have a custom keyboard indicator in there, which reads the old config key
<attente> seb128, unblock in what way?
<attente> seb128, ack
<seb128> attente, we are still having ibus 1.4 as our default ibus version, I guess your indicator work only with 1.5?
<seb128> attente, I will just kick in another discussion on the desktop list about ibus 1.5 and what are/were the blocker issues for upgrading to 1.5
<attente> seb128, yeah, i mean, i guess we could try to get it working with 1.4, but no idea what kind of new issues that will cause
<seb128> attente, don't bother about that, we will need to upgrade to 1.5 at some point ... one of the main blocker for me was that it didn't play nicely with our old GNOME keyboard stack, which was blocked on having an indicator
<seb128> so with some luck we can just unblock that now
<seb128> ;-)
<attente> ah, gotcha :)
<sil2100> didrocks: in case you missed our talk with attante - the unity-gtk-module test failures should be fixed!
<didrocks> sil2100: I flyed over the discussion and I'm delighted :)
<sil2100> didrocks: it seems attente made a fix branch that I probably even tested in the past (but probably forgot to approve), and it was waiting in ether
<seb128> didrocks, the fix he submitted some time ago was waiting for somebody to review it :p
<sil2100> So I should probably say 'oops my bad!'
<didrocks> attente: you should konw, poke kindly, then yell :p
<didrocks> know*
<didrocks> sil2100: tsss :p
<didrocks> well, great that's fixed :)
<didrocks> sad that unity-panel-service crashes and don't respawn in that case
<mhr3_> seb128, ouch, my gedit is using 318mb of ram, it's been running for quite a while, but i was really loading anything huge there :/
<seb128> mhr3_, was *not*, I guess?
<mhr3_> seb128, right, sorry
<mhr3_> seb128, and cups-browsed 330mb... damn
<mhr3_> seb128, at least zeitgeist-fts isn't the biggest thing anymore :P
<didrocks> mhr3_: tssss tsss tsss, don't try to find any excuse! you will still have the zeitgeist stamp to me! :)
<mhr3_> didrocks, come on, it's clear now, zeitgeist is behaving like other services, so it's completely normal :P
<seb128> bah, nm-applet/n-m got unhappy again and xchat-gnome nm integration disconnects when wifi disconnect
<seb128> mhr3_, can I just blame your box? :-)
<didrocks> mhr3_: tsssss :p
<seb128> mhr3_, for the memory usage
<mhr3_> seb128, no :p
<attente> didrocks, duly noted ;)
<mhr3_> seb128, but i'll forgive you the cups part, it's new code iirc
<seb128> mhr3_, still mention it to tkamppeter
<seb128> mhr3_, zeitgeist-fts is using 300m here if you want processes that eat memory :p
<mhr3_> seb128, ah, you must lots of data, it's just 220mb here :)
<mhr3_> hm, i loose words
<mhr3_> think that's caused by the memory leaks
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, is there a known bug about "/usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://" processes hanging around all day?
<seb128> tkamppeter, I've a stack of those
<seb128> mhr3_, ;-)
<mdeslaur_> seb128: how does this work? https://code.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.04
<mdeslaur_> seb128: will something push that as an SRU if jenkins "released" it?
<mdeslaur_> or is that inaccurate and I should upload it manually as an SRU?
<seb128> mdeslaur_, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+queue?queue_state=1
<seb128> mdeslaur_, and cyphermox did the precise one, which is waiting there: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/142680700/libdbusmenu_0.6.2-0ubuntu0.2_source.changes
<mdeslaur_> ok, slightly confused as I had just looked there and didn't see it in the queue
<seb128> mdeslaur_, weird ...
<seb128> mdeslaur_, they have a 2 steps process through a stagging ppa for SRUs, so maybe that created some delay
<seb128> mdeslaur_, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/sru-staging if you want to check diffs and stuff
<seb128> hum, though the diff is with the previous daily in that case
<mdeslaur_> seb128: awesome, thanks
<seb128> so not very useful
<seb128> but you get the content at least
<seb128> mdeslaur_, yw
<cyphermox> mdeslaur_: there's a jenkins button to push for that sru
<seb128> cyphermox, seems like sil2100 pushed it for the stack in raring
<cyphermox> yeah
<seb128> Laney, btw there is a new glib out if you need a break from qml at some point ;-)
<Laney> so there is
<Laney> I'll look at it after I get this MPed
<seb128> Laney, no hurry, I'm just mentioning it ;-)
<Laney> yeah but it seems like a good opportunity to do something different ...
<Laney> oh, looks like I'm patch piloting tomorrow anyway
<tkamppeter> seb128, what's on with CUPS?
<seb128> tkamppeter,
<seb128> lp        1223  0.0  0.0   6484  1420 ?        S    17:57   0:00 /usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://
<seb128> lp        1224  0.0  0.0   6484  1424 ?        S    17:57   0:00 /usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://
<seb128> lp        1225  0.0  0.0   6484  1420 ?        S    17:57   0:00 /usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1223 in gcursor (Ubuntu) "gcursor: typo in description" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223
<seb128> ....
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1130 in xfwm4-themes (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1224 unmet dependancy in xfwm4-themes" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1225 in glom (Ubuntu) "Glom: missing dependency - PostgreSQL" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225
<seb128> ubot2, stupid bot
<ubot2> Factoid 'stupid bot' not found
<seb128> tkamppeter,
<seb128> $ ps aux | grep "cups/notifier" | wc -l
<seb128> 101
<tkamppeter> seb128, there was a bug report about this /usr/lib/cups/notifier/dbus dbus://, I think larsu has fixed such a thing some time ago.
<seb128> well, it's back it seems
<seb128> tkamppeter, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-printers/+bug/959195
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 959195 in indicator-printers (Ubuntu) "65 cups notifier processes running" [Undecided,Fix released]
<tkamppeter> seb128, probably it needs refixing after every small change in the system.
<seb128> tkamppeter, that's fixed after doing what was suggested in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-printers/+bug/959195/comments/9
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 959195 in indicator-printers (Ubuntu) "65 cups notifier processes running" [Undecided,Fix released]
<seb128> it was maybe a leftover config, I will watch for it
<seb128> on that note, doing a break, bbiab
<tkamppeter> seb128, the bug seems to be in indicator-printers and the fix was done in precise, by creating subscriptions with timeout so that if indicator-printers dies that the subscriptions it leaves behind go away within 15 minutes.
 * didrocks waves good evening
<Sweetshark> just in case anyone pinged me around 1700UTC please redo, my session died.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-20
<m4n1sh> jbicha: so what do you suggest where in the app to add Lock and Temporary files purge features?
<m4n1sh> a separate tab? name it what?
<jbicha> I think if you add screen lock options to the privacy panel, it basically needs to be a separate tab
<jbicha> it might be cool if you could test for gnome-control-center 3.8 (either build-time or run-time) and only show that tab for that version or higher
<jbicha> since there's quite a bit more work to be done before we can upgrade to gnome-control-center 3.8 without regressions on Ubuntu
<jbicha> perhaps Purge Temporary Files could go in Clear Usage Data
<jbicha> in lieu of anything better, I think I'd just call the tab "Screen Lock"
<jbicha> I'm not really a designer; I just make some suggestions some times :)
<m4n1sh> jbicha: or just "Behavior"
<jbicha> I know you were trying to get rid of tabs and this would bring us back to 4 tabs on Ubuntu (since I've kept the Search Results tab because I hadn't been told specifically whether that was to be killed or not)
<m4n1sh> Behavior can also take in "Search Results" tab
<m4n1sh> so "Search Results" + Screen Lock  = Behavior tab
<m4n1sh> jbicha: I guess that would be better - Search result and Screen Lock are both behavior.. again I am not designer
<jbicha> I think Behavior is really ambiguous and we already use Behavior for 1 of the 2 tabs in Appearance
<m4n1sh> jbicha: I can
<jbicha> on the other hand, the Search Results tab is nearly empty
<m4n1sh> cant remember Appearance tab anywhere
<m4n1sh> right now I have only Background
<m4n1sh> Brightness and Lock, Displays etc
<m4n1sh> yeah. I was trying to merge Search Results and Screen Lock
<jbicha> it looks like www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Screen-Shot-2012-04-26-at-13.42.jpg
<jbicha> I wish Unity would have taken inspiration from GNOME 3.8's new Search panel and moved the on/off switches for 100 scopes to System Settings where it's a lot more discoverable
<jbicha> I had no idea how to turn on/off individual scopes without "reading the manual"
<m4n1sh> looks like my gnome-control-center is from ricotz or gnome3 team ppa
<m4n1sh> so it looks vanilla
<jbicha> m4n1sh: which desktop are you running?
<m4n1sh> jbicha: it shows only on unity? I am running shell atm
<jbicha> yeah, close settings then run XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Unity gnome-control-center
<jbicha> yes it's bad usability to have the settings panel work differently depending on what desktop you're using but it's a compromise :|
<m4n1sh> plus I am not very convinced that allowing to change icon size is actually useful
<m4n1sh> if I was the maintainer, I would have just dropped that setting
<jbicha> some people do really like that option and it was another compromise in lieu of directing people to ccsm or dconf-editor at the time
<m4n1sh> oh yeah. it is still way better than asking people to open ccsm and blow up everything
<jbicha> we may even still have been using gconf at the time which had a horrible UI for tweaking Unity
<jbicha> dconf-editor works well now for Unity
<m4n1sh> so what should be done?
<m4n1sh> how to integrate those settings?
<jbicha> we need to tweak the "When searching in the Dash" section to only show when Unity is running (we can check dbus for it or check for XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP)
<jbicha> I suggest you ask the Unity design guys whether they still want the online search toggle for saucy
<m4n1sh> actually Appearance > Behavior should be renamed to Appearance > Launcher and Workspaces
<jbicha> unless a designer suggests something else, it's up to you whether you do it in one tab or two
<m4n1sh> makes more sense
<m4n1sh> and Behavior for Lock Screen etc
<m4n1sh> jbicha: unity dev happens on ubuntu-devel or some other list?
<jbicha> there's #ubuntu-unity (US or Europe hours); I'm not sure that Unity designers really use mailing lists
<m4n1sh> jbicha: do you think I should release the current code so that it is included in saucy and tested
<m4n1sh> since getting rest of the code might take a few weeks
<m4n1sh> as this new UI  has never been tested on a wider scale. It might contain dragons
<jbicha> m4n1sh: well I have 2 bugs I filed today and there's my 3.8 merge proposal I'd like to see handled first ;)
<jbicha> but as long as there's no known regressions I agree it's better to land sooner :)
<m4n1sh> jbicha: true. those will be included in next release. I am talking about getting the gnome privacy thing at later stage
<m4n1sh> I am going to merge gnome 3.8 branch now and then work on making diagnostic available in standalone too
<jbicha> yes, gnome-control-center 3.8 is likely at least a few weeks away and the lock settings aren't the only blocker
<m4n1sh> and then release
<m4n1sh> what else blockers are there?
<jbicha> from me, there's bug 1192777 too; either it should work or be hidden; everything else seems to look fine although I use GNOME Shell a lot more than Unity
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1192777 in Activity Log Manager ""Send a report automatically" feature doesn't work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192777
<m4n1sh> for #1192777 I would need to ask evan dandrea as he manages the diagnostic thing
<m4n1sh> jbicha: sent him a mail. He is in London Time, so he might get it done in 12 hours. (Hopefully)
<pitti> Good morning
<mlankhorst> bonjour
<RAOF> pitti: Good morning!
<RAOF> pitti: I hope that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1192842 contains enough information for you.
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1192842 in systemd (Ubuntu) "logind loses track of sessions when multiple sessions share a VT" [Undecided,New]
<mlankhorst> RAOF: can you accept xxv-intel and mesa in quantal, raring, and the lts versions in precise?
<pitti> hey RAOF
<RAOF> mlankhorst: Sure.
<pitti> RAOF: so the effect is that c2, c3, c5 don't get ACLs?
<RAOF> pitti: Correct.
<RAOF> Although they *do* have ACLs when I first log in. It's only after switching to the guest session that logind gets confused, and no longer thinks any session is active.
<RAOF> Hm. Do you find the bug blurry?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, lut! happy thursday
<didrocks> happy thursday as well :)
<seb128> how is the weather for you?
<seb128> no ice falling from the sky? no storm?
<seb128> it has been raining a lot here, some ice as well
<didrocks> no, a nice and sunny weather, but with more resonnables temperatures
<didrocks> oh?
<didrocks> just during the night here
<seb128> I was up at 5am with the noise that was making on my windows
<didrocks> waow
<didrocks> at least, the temperatures are better I guess?
<seb128> it's better this morning, though heavy raining now
<didrocks> well, if that can result for you a cooler week-endâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: I think I finally found a case where unity-gtk-module is regressing us! Dart editor (so, I guess eclipse as well), has its menu exported, but there is nothing in them, just the first level is available
<seb128> interesting
<seb128> is that java and gtk2?
<didrocks> yeah, I'm going to open a bug
<didrocks> I guess it's java + the sdk theme
<didrocks> gtk*
 * didrocks tries installing eclipse and pulls the world
<seb128> didrocks, were we exporting menus for that one before?
<seb128> I know we had eclipse blacklisted at some point
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, it was exported and working fine
<didrocks> for dart
<didrocks> which I guess didn't use eclipse blacklist
<seb128> right
<seb128> in any case please open a bug ;-)
<didrocks> yeah, let me try to confirm with eclipse, seeing if we still have that list
<didrocks> seb128: on another note, I'm starting to regret having pulled -proposed in the ppa
<seb128> too much transitional breakages?
<didrocks> a lot of FTBFS this night (and still now), because of archive mismatch due to new gtk3
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> like gtk not built on arm?
<didrocks> exaclty!
<didrocks> exactly*
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> still didn't fail, it failed again on some stupid test
<didrocks> yeah, seems like shacky ones
<Laney> howdy
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<seb128> Laney, good morning
<seb128> I retried 3 times yesterday
<didrocks> seb128: eclipse is still blacklisted (or exported the env var)
<didrocks> seb128: should I disable -proposed for now?
<didrocks> meanwhile? (I wanted to do the Xorg transition today though)
<seb128> didrocks, I need to fix gtk today in any case, but your call
<didrocks> seb128: do you need help on those tests?
<seb128> didrocks, the xorg transition? 1.14 to saucy you mean?
<didrocks> no, on the gtk failures
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for the offer, let me already have a look to what's the issue with gtk
<didrocks> ok
<seb128> didrocks, sorry, the 1.14 to saucy question was for "I wanted to do the Xorg transition today"
<didrocks> meanwhile, let me remove all this java things that got pulled :p
<seb128> what transition?
<didrocks> seb128: oh right, the 1.14 version
<Laney> wasn't gtk failing in the rebuild test already?
<seb128> Laney, it was
<didrocks> seb128: we need to get in sync for the barrier push change
<seb128> didrocks, right, I'm not sure 1.14 is ready to be pushed to the archive yet though
<didrocks> seb128: oh? mlankhorst is telling me he's waiting for days
<seb128> didrocks, we promised asac and olli that we would make a call for testing before upload, once we have a ppa with everything including unity to test
<seb128> mlankhorst, did you get fglrx ready for the new abi and tested as well?
<seb128> it was not in the ppa last time I asked
<didrocks> seb128: ah, so independant from us then, I think mlankhorst already has all with the special unity
<didrocks> sil2100: FYI ^
<seb128> Laney, I wonder if the GTK build issue is a real bug, there are some FAIL with those warnings
<seb128> Gtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: Raleigh.css:394:140: Cannot animate property 'background-image'
<mlankhorst> seb128: i think we do, but tseliot was busy making the driver ready for 3.10
<didrocks> mlankhorst: please ping sil2100 once we have a definitive ack to transition then :)
<Laney> Don't know, that soundsl ike something which could make tests fail
<Laney> maybe a question for upstream
<Laney> unless the same messages appear on good arches too
<seb128> mlankhorst, can you check and be sure? we will be in trouble in we break anybody's box on upgrade, we should make sure we have all drivers ready, including nvidia and fglrx and we should do a call for testing on ubuntu-devel@ with the ppa once it's ready for saucy copy
<didrocks> Laney: you mean armhf is a bad arches? :p
<Laney> haha you won't catch me out there
<Laney> I mean arches in which the test is good :P
<seb128> no cookie for armhf!
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> heh
<Laney> like ppc :-)
<mlankhorst> seb128: the call for testing already happened before raring was released, someone was optimistic that fglrx would be ready in time for that..
<didrocks> Laney: you can try as hard as you want, that won't change my view on ppc though :p
<Laney> yeah no warnings there
<Laney> I guess that is pretty relevant then
<seb128> mlankhorst, well, we need a new call for testing on saucy, things changed since, and we need fglrx to be part of the batch which is ready to be tested
<didrocks> +1
<seb128> Laney, there was no such warning on armhf in the 0ubuntu4 upload either
<Laney> right, otherwise it would have failed to build
<Laney> so something clearly changed
<chrisccoulson> yoyoyo
<seb128> oh, a chrisccoulson!
<Laney> sup chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> i thought i'd pop in here and say hello ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you? it has been a while you didn't say hello to us ;-)
 * seb128 hugs chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm good thanks. busy, but good
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
 * chrisccoulson hugs seb128
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! :)
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I've been told you will solve https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtwebkit-opensource-src/+bug/1192567 for us ;-)
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1192567 in qtwebkit-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "[MIR] qt5webkit " [Undecided,New]
<chrisccoulson> hah :)
<sil2100> ACK
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> how slow is that armhf porter box, takes like a minute to run configure on gtk
<seb128> going to take a while to debug that issue :/
<ogra_> its a panda :/
<ogra_> still no signs of the calxeda nodes for us
<ogra_> (by the time we get them you will be able to buy the new amd arm server machines .... )
<Sweetshark> seb128: the mother of all hacks seems to have worked ... only to find later issues.
<seb128> :-(
<Sweetshark> seb128: but those seem to be solvable (just taking time with the turnaround of this monster on the buildds)
<seb128> ok, that's something
<seb128> keep the good work ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: cant we just upload the binaries from my machine? its so much faster than those buildds :P
<seb128> talk to the is guys to see how much they like thatr :p
<Sweetshark> seb128: hrhr. I guess I should wear full body armor, plate for that.
<seb128> Laney, that's not a small diff to review :p
<Laney> hrhr
<Laney> Just tell me my QML skills suck and to start again
<seb128> Laney, why didn't you use background images from ubuntu-wallpapers?
<seb128> I guess that's not installed on the touch image?
<Laney> exactly
<Laney> I tried to use some of the images in /usr/share/backgrounds/ on the device but they didn't load up
<seb128> anyway demo artwork is fine until we get some artwork from design on the image ;-)
<seb128> Laney, btw did the recent commit fix the issues you were having the other day?
<seb128> the commit from Ken to change the resize mode seems to have made it behave for me
<Laney> which one?
<seb128> you asked monday if I tested the settings on a device
<Laney> getting stuck in a panel?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> let me check
<seb128> you said you couldn't go back or something
<Laney> yes seems good now
<seb128> great ;-)
<seb128> Laney, btw your QML skills suck, please start again :p
 * seb128 hides
<Laney> haha
<seb128> (joke aside, reviewing)
<Laney> knew I should have become a monk instead
<seb128> I'm pondering doing nitpicking :p (why blank lines between imports)
<chrisccoulson> i love nitpicking
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> btw the idea is to remove the UbuntuSwappableImage thing once I get CrossFadeImage and then a component on top of that into the UI toolkit
<seb128> great
<seb128> Laney, how annoying is it if I ask "can we get it renamed "background" rather than "appearance", since that's what the designs call it"?
<Laney> I got appearance from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Appearance#Phone
<seb128> Laney, we should at least change the visible name, but I would prefer the filenames to match
<Laney> but ok
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> don't we have a qmlproject thingy for the system settings?
<seb128> qmlproject thingy?
<Laney> what do I pick to load it in qt creator?
<Laney> I've been working with my separate project up to now
<seb128> I usually open system-settings.pro from the srcdir
<seb128> but that's a bit of a pain, I didn't find how to run the app or test panels from qtcreator
<seb128> I just do the editing in there
<Laney> that just opend it as text
<seb128> and then have a command line where I cp over the system version and run it
<seb128> did you do "open file or project" and picked the .pro?
<seb128> that works for me...
<seb128> system-settings.pro that is
<Laney> ap
<Laney> ah*
<Laney> I got it to open a configuration screen and then from there to the project
<seb128> Laney, right, that's what it does here (the configuration screen is only the first time, it writes a .pro.user then)
<Laney> yeah I just don't know why it insisted on opening it as text
<Laney> oh well
<Laney> seb128: OK, pushed the rename and some other cleanups
<seb128> great
<Laney> Is there a packaging branch for nautilus 3.8?
<seb128> Laney, yes, linked on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1130746
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1130746 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Update to nautilus 3.8" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Laney> oh cool, didn't think to look there :P
<seb128> Laney, do you work on the update?
<Laney> just putting a patch in
<Laney> I figure there are already people looking at that update
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's almost done, it just need the template patch to be adapted
<seb128> and some testing
<seb128> and to figure out the background story
<seb128> I think we should just re-enable the gsd plugin
<Laney> the rationale for disabling it was because it was redundant, so if that stops being true then +1
<seb128> right, nautilus 3.8 stops drawing the wallpaper
<seb128> it just put icons on a rgba background
<seb128> in GNOME gnome-shell draws the wallpaper
<seb128> until unity8 does it for us I guess we can just use the g-s-d code back there
<ricotz> hi desktopers
<ricotz> is it possible that last bamf release silently broke abi?
<ricotz> (0.5.0daily13.06.19-0ubuntu1)
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<Laney> might help if you describe what you are seeing
<seb128> ricotz, could be, Trevinho ported it to gdbus which is a non trivial change
 * didrocks is watching gtk3 tests executing while staring at seb128 :)
<seb128> didrocks, I couldn't get tests to fail on porter-armhf, tried in loop, under valgrind, ...
<ricotz> seb128, i see, then an soname bump had to be done
<didrocks> seb128: yeah for easy reproducer :/
<seb128> didrocks, I think I will just add a || true to the test to unblock the archive
<didrocks> let's cross fingers
<seb128> ricotz, why? what dbus library is used by the code is not part of the abi/api
<didrocks> ricotz: at least, it did still work for application matching and so on with new bamf + old unity
<seb128> ricotz, the interfaces shouldn't have changed, the update didn't break unity/didn't require unity changes
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, let's see *if* by chance, this passed at least for this round
<ricotz> seb128, i am meant the abi of libbamf3
<seb128> didrocks, right
<ricotz> i will downgrade to the older bamf to test/confirm
<didrocks> (/build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.8.2/debian/build/shared/tests/a11y/.libs/lt-tree-relationships:6264): Gtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: Raleigh.css:394:140: Cannot animate property 'background-image'
<didrocks> FAIL
<seb128> ricotz, I'm not sure the abi changed, as Laney said it would help if you described your issue
<didrocks> seb128: argh ^
<seb128> didrocks, you get it?
<didrocks> seb128: no, I was looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/3.8.2-0ubuntu5/+build/4727251
<seb128> oh
<seb128> let me upload with make check || true
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, let's hope it's the only oneâ¦ :)
<seb128> I've another build running on porter but I don't want to keep the archive screwed for the day
<ricotz> Laney, seb128, this is not a unity issue, but plank (which uses bamf) isnt behaving like it should
<Laney> on armhf only if you're going to do that please ...
<ricotz> i was just taking a look at bamf change which arent published yet, which are already looking like an abi break
<ricotz> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/bamf/trunk/revision/557
<ricotz> e.g. the changes to  lib/libbamf/bamf-view.h
<ricotz> that made think there might be something sneaked in earlier too
<Laney> try the abi compliance checker on it
<ricotz> ok
<ricotz> thanks
<Trevinho> ricotz: hey
<ricotz> Trevinho, hi
<Trevinho> ricotz: I thought I didn't change the ABI, but that class reoreding seems to do that... I wanted to revert it back, then I forgot
<ricotz> Trevinho, if there are some ordering changes like the one i linked then it is a break
<Trevinho> ricotz: even if I've never recompiled unity and my tools here and everything continued to work
<ricotz> Trevinho, ok, i confirmed the reverting to the older bamf version it works again
<ricotz> Trevinho, were there any behaviour changes too?
<Trevinho> ricotz: did you get crashes before?
<ricotz> Trevinho, it doesnt crash, it seems to do the wrong things
<ricotz> which would happen if signals are reordered
<Trevinho> ricotz: ah, so are you sure you're running the right deaemon?
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5783329/
<Trevinho> ricotz: that would happen if you'd use default handlers, but it's quite unlikely that you do that... do you?
<seb128> Laney, does that look correct to you? I hate makefiles :p
<ricotz> Trevinho, i recently killed the daemon, but i could be the old one was still running before
<ricotz> Trevinho, will recheck
<Trevinho> ricotz: I've changed a couple of things on the daemon + library: use dbus properties instead of methods + signal when it's the case (deprecating them, and they're about to be removed soon)
<Trevinho> so, for example for titles and icons we now use them... the same for urgent/active/running events
<ricotz> i am only using the library, not the dbus interface directly, if that is what you meant
<Trevinho> ricotz: yes, I know.... But while the dubs api has been integrated (not changed yet), the new library only talks with newly added dbus entries
<Trevinho> s/dubs/dbus
<Laney> seb128: why not just ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH),armhf)?
<seb128> Laney, because I hate makefiles and I copied what I find in another rules on my disk ;-)
<seb128> Laney, let me try that
<Laney> you typically use the filter functions when it's a list
<seb128> Laney, ok, that works, let me upload that, thanks ;-)
<ricotz> Trevinho, ok, i can confirm the behaviour changed here with the new version
<ricotz> Trevinho, will try to figure out what it is
<Trevinho> ricotz: ok, thanks let me know
<Trevinho> ricotz: what's exactly wrong for now?
<ricotz> Trevinho, when closing an applications (not in favorites) the signals-(count/ordering) might have changed, could be i relied on a buggy behaviour which you have fixed now
<ricotz> Trevinho, so i cant point a finger on it yet
<Trevinho> ricotz: ok, take your time... Thanks for testing that
<Laney> has anyone noticed that all of the categories apart from "Applications" keep getting disabled in current unity?
<Laney> and sources
<seb128> Laney, disabled where?
<Laney> in the dash
<seb128> in the stuff listed in the home screen?
<seb128> or in the filter UI on the side?
<seb128> do you do a search or just open the dash?
<Laney> if you expand "Filter results"
<Laney> all of the above
<Laney> I've definitely enabled them all a couple of times but they are all now disabled apart from applications
<seb128> I don't think they are meant to keep state
<seb128> check with mhr3 or pstolowski
<seb128> when you do a query the server send back what scopes to use
<Laney> indeed, if I search for a filename it is returned
<Laney> but after a 5s-ish delay
<seb128> I can confirm that yes
<seb128> the whole server returning scope to activate seems flaky/subject to latency to me
<pstolowski> Laney: so it's when you enter a query?
<Laney> pstolowski: well, it means that when I open the dash I only see applications listed straight away
<mhr3> Laney, by design
<Laney> but the returned query results indeed seem to ignore that filter
<mhr3> Laney, filtering in home is "post-search", not pre- as elsewhere
<pstolowski> Laney: as soon as you start typing, your filter settings are ignored and reset with recommendations. if you want to apply filters for the results, you have to apply them after the search. it's by design
<Laney> hrm
<Laney> I suppose I expected it to override the smart scope results
<pstolowski> Laney: but there's also another concept - Dash is no search query is a "default" view. you can customize it by selecting filters, and it should remember the state
<pstolowski> s/Dash is/Dash with/
<Laney> well that seemed to be reset too
<Laney> unless I searched and then changed it
<pstolowski> Laney: hmm then this would be a bug
<Laney> I might have done that though, because I didn't know about this concept
<mhr3> pstolowski, aah, actually my weird bug was caused by more-suggestions being active for the default view... :/
<pstolowski> mhr3: ahh, then it's a problem that it's not ignored I think
<mhr3> pstolowski, yea, it seems to retain results from the last search
<pstolowski> mhr3: tough I think we wanted to support more suggestions in surfacing mode anyway
<Laney> I also never seem to get Music results
<Laney> guess that's a server thing
<seb128> Laney, didrocks: I can reproduce the arm test issue
<seb128> I lean toward blaming desrt for it
<didrocks> seb128: \o/
<seb128> but it could be doko
<didrocks> seb128: what box?
<seb128> porter-armhf.c.c
<pstolowski> mhr3, Laney: pls open bugs if you feel something's wrong
<seb128> doing a package build
<Laney> pstolowski: OK, where's the right place for server bugs?
<Laney> or just all against unity and they'll be triaged
<Laney> ?
<seb128> didrocks, it seems to be an issue with the css embedded in the binary, that's coming out of gresources
<seb128> didrocks, it only happens with the new libgtk, not with the system one, where the content shouldn't have changed
<seb128> I wonder if that's a new glib issue
<didrocks> seb128: interesting, but it seemed to be more a racy issue as you couldn't reproduce reliably on porter earlier?
<seb128> but we previous archive built was already using the new glib
<didrocks> ahâ¦
<mhr3> Laney, music where? most music is in More suggestions
<Laney> mhr3: I get file results
<seb128> didrocks, I don't know why I couldn't reproduce a source build, I did a ./configure && make earlier to avoid the triple build from the package
<Laney> mhr3: but if I go to filter results and turn on Music then I also see the proper entries
<seb128> didrocks, but I can reproduce with a package build tree
<pstolowski> Laney: yup, just against Unity. do you have any local music (indexed with rhythmbox)?
<seb128> didrocks, maybe a builddir!=srcdir issue
<Laney> pstolowski: maybe not, I use banshee
 * Laney just imported it, let's test
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, that's possible
<didrocks> at least, great to have a reproducer on a box :)
<pstolowski> Laney: banshee should work too
<Laney> seems the same
<Laney> does it work for you?
<Laney> e.g. Open dash, search for "Dream Theater", see files and some random applications but not the proper music results
<mhr3> any idea why bzr doesn't want to do SSH?
<mhr3> bzr: ERROR: Don't know how to handle SSH connections. Please set BZR_SSH environment variable.
<Laney> Filter results -> Music, happy days
<Laney> anyway, supposed to be sponsoring
<mhr3> Laney, so it's not selected when you do the search?
<Laney> no
<pstolowski> Laney: what does 'gsettings get com.canonical.Unity.Lenses always-search' say?
<Laney> pstolowski: ['applications.scope', 'music.scope', 'videos.scope', 'files.scope']
<pstolowski> hmm
<pstolowski> Laney: ok, please open a bug (quote this key value in the report)
<Laney> wilco
<sil2100> didrocks: quick status update:
<Laney> cyphermox: !!!
<Laney> What's up with https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/indicator-datetime/days-months/+merge/159214 ?
<cyphermox> well it's approved
<cyphermox> it would be nice is others could chime in given the number of reviewers
<sil2100> didrocks: so, I still see some issues with indicator-client sadly
<sil2100> cyphermox: hi
<cyphermox> charles: ^ wanna take a look?
<Laney> I guess they should look at it too
<Laney> pitti: you got requested there ^ also
<cyphermox> just a review to see if it all makes sense, then top-approve?
<sil2100> cyphermox: regarding indicator-client - I wanted to build it locally but I get a failure on one of the tests all the time
<cyphermox> Laney: it does pretty much make sense though, then you got to step over the knee-jerk reaction of rejecting because it "breaks POSIX" :)
<sil2100> cyphermox: and also, I see some strange dependencies in the indicator-client debian/control
<pitti> Laney: hm, I have an odd dÃ©jÃ -vu effect; I'm fairly sure I commented on this like 5 times already
<cyphermox> like?
<Laney> cyphermox: I deliberately haven't read it because I don't want to have any kind of reaction
<Laney> pitti: Don't see you on the MP :P
<cyphermox> sil2100: it built fine here
<sil2100> cyphermox: since what are indicator-battery and indicator-time? Are they by any chance older versions of indicator-power and indicator-datetime? Since they have no LP projects and no sources
<cyphermox> err
<Laney> pitti: But if you don't care then just abstain?
<sil2100> cyphermox: there are no releases for those ;/
<cyphermox> you shouldn't get indicator-battery and indicator-time anymore
<sil2100> cyphermox: but the packaging deps on them
<sil2100> So duh
<cyphermox> sil2100: not afaik
<pitti> Laney: ah, my awesome bar has two similar MPs which got deleted
<seb128> Laney, I think nobody, out of Gunnar, cares enough about those details to add hacks in different places
<marga> I need someone that really understands compositing, xdamage and all that kind of stuff... Does that person exist?
<cyphermox> I was just looking for that
<sil2100> I just branched it
<sil2100> lp:indicator-client
<sil2100> Let me pull
<Laney> seb128: I'm just doing the pilot thing here!
<seb128> Laney, want to join the settings meeting?
<Laney> "annoy people until they make things go away"
 * Laney cackles
<Laney> oh yeah, that
<Laney> yes, yes I do!
<sil2100> cyphermox: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/indicators-client/trunk/view/head:/debian/control#L63
<sil2100> Here is indicator-battery
<cyphermox> sil2100: definitely nothing of the sort here, although it does look for com.canonical.indicator.battery in power.json, but that shouldn't translate to a depends
<sil2100> cyphermox: but it's hard-coded into debian/control
<pitti> Laney: done
<Laney> pitti: merci!
<pitti> de rien
<sil2100> cyphermox: indicator-time is a Depends: of indicators-client-plugin-datetime in trunk
<sil2100> cyphermox: so not sure what trunk you are looking at?
<sil2100> (line 73)
<sil2100> Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing?
<cyphermox> ah, nevermind, I have local changes I didn't commit
<cyphermox> anyway, it just needs to be ripped out
<sil2100> ACK, let's do that then and merge it
<sil2100> didrocks: ^
<sil2100> Then we can try re-adding it, maybe the unit test failure is only on my local machine
<sil2100> Who knows if some packages aren't broken, but I doubt it
<sil2100> The following tests FAILED: 3 - dynamicmenutest (Failed)
<didrocks> sil2100: catching up!
<sil2100> didrocks: from other news:
<sil2100> The armhf failures we've been getting in indicators (besides the libusermetrics thing) - rerunning wasn't helping, as it seems (which me and Francis tried looking into) it's an issue with -proposed and gtk+3.0 for armhf
<sil2100> A recent push made by seb128 is probably still buuilding for armhf
<sil2100> I hope once it's finished, it might unblock everything again for armhf in the indicators sstack
<cyphermox> sil2100: I get the same test failing
<cyphermox> better ask tedg
<tedg> sil2100, Link?
<cyphermox> tedg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5783768/
<sil2100> tedg: uh oh! No link, since I was running it locally
<sil2100> tedg: one unit test in indicators-client is failing
<sil2100> dynamicmenutest
<tedg> dednick, Do we need indicators-client anymore?
<tedg> I think it's been merged into Unity8
<sil2100> Now that's a good question
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, it's still gtk+3.0 is still building as you can see:
<didrocks> sil2100: just finished btw: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/3.8.2-0ubuntu6/+build/4730684
<didrocks> sil2100: we need to wait for the next publisher and can relaunch
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> This would unblock the indicator stack, since the libusermetrics 'base' fix is in already
<didrocks> great :)
<didrocks> then restarting all the stacks?
<dednick> tedg: in the pipeline
<tedg> dednick, Do we need to fix the test suite for it?  Could we just remove the test?
 * tedg tells didrocks to close his IRC client
<seb128> larsu, kenvandine: where is the work in progress for gsettings?
 * kenvandine is anxiously awaiting to find that out 
<tedg> dednick, Just thinking if it's code we don't care about, we shouldn't spend time fixing the tests.
<dednick> sil2100, tedg: there is a regression in indicators-client. there was a change to qmenumodel awhile ago.
<dednick> tedg: remove it
<tedg> dednick, We can remove all of indicators-client or just the test.
<dednick> tedg: just the test
<didrocks> tedg: ok, I *fully* trust you :p
<tedg> K, cool, thanks dednick
<larsu> seb128, kenvandine: I just started it last night, will upload it today
<kenvandine> larsu, we're all waiting for you :)
<sil2100> tedg: will you create the merge for that or busy?
<tedg> didrocks, sil2100, how do you guys want to do that?
<larsu> kenvandine: you're not the only ones ...
<tedg> I'm prone to just remove the autotest target
<seb128> larsu, ok
<larsu> kenvandine, seb128: should we stick with the qconf name even though it's a new project?
<seb128> larsu, I can see lot of free icecream in your futur, if that helps ;-)
<didrocks> tedg: I'll let sil2100 handling it as he followed that up more closely than I :)
<kenvandine> dednick, i see you're assigned the bug on the messaging menu not showing missed SMS, is that by chance what you're working on?
<larsu> seb128: \o/
<kenvandine> dednick, that bug is really bugging me :)
<larsu> seb128: ice creame *always* helps
<seb128> ;-)
<dednick> kenvandine: i was just about to start work on it
<seb128> larsu, I've no strong opinion on the name
<kenvandine> dednick, great... thanks!
<seb128> larsu, you can as well call it gsettings-qt
<seb128> or whatever works for you
<sil2100> tedg: if it's a regression in the actual code, then I would guess that the best way is to just comment out the autotest target
<kenvandine> seb128, larsu: i'd prefer that to dconf-qt
<kenvandine> which seemed weird to me
<sil2100> tedg: since this would mean that this test will anyway fail everywhere - not just when 'we' are building the package
<sil2100> tedg: so I'm +1 for the autotest-removal/commenting-out
<larsu> kenvandine: ya, and this is not using dconf (directly) anymore :)
<sil2100> tedg: with some comment on top to know what's up
<larsu> seb128: yeah I thought about that, but I don't know how the sdk people feel about having a GSettingsQt module
<sil2100> dednick: is there a bug for that regression filled in?
<kenvandine> larsu, is it providing both a Qt library and QML bindings?
<larsu> kenvandine: only qml for now. Do you need a qt library?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> just checking
<larsu> ya, I figured I can add it when the need arises
<kenvandine> you could name it gsettings-qml then... unless we want to use gsettings-qt with the thought that someday we'll add a lib too
<dednick> sil2100: yes
<kenvandine> and the binary package will be something like qtdeclarative-gsettings1.0
<larsu> and the import line just "import GSettings 1.0"?
<kenvandine> larsu, i'd vote for gsettings-qt in case we add a lib later
<kenvandine> larsu, yup
<larsu> okay
 * kenvandine doesn't mind seeing the "G" there
 * larsu whips out sed
<kenvandine> and there is already QSettings i think
<tedg> "Say hello to my little string parser!"
<dednick> sil2100: i think it's the same issue anyway. https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+bug/1191822
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1191822 in touch-preview-images "After a wireless network is selected the list of networks says "Empty!"" [High,In progress]
<larsu> dednick: can you please add the indicator projects on these bugs? I don't get notified about any messages bugs because they're always filed against touch-preview-images only
<tedg> sil2100, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicators-client/tests/+merge/170633
<dednick> larsu: sure
<larsu> thanks :)
<sil2100> tedg: commented!
<sil2100> tedg: by 'I guess they shouldn't fail' I mean that they'er testing the functionality, and even if they fail that's a different issue, and we need integration tests being ran if possible - so I would like them to be installed
<sil2100> tedg: since they don't block package builds
<tedg> sil2100, But if we're going to ignore the results, why waste the CPU time?
 * xnox is in favor of running yet ignoring results from known_to_fail testsuites. Expected Fail, is there for a reason.
<sil2100> tedg: ok, so at least leave the autopilot tests in
<sil2100> tedg: so if you could re-add the indicators-client-autopilot.install it would be all-ok
<tedg> sil2100, K
<didrocks> sil2100: rmadison says that gtk+3.0 3.8.2-0ubuntu6 is now published in proposed
<didrocks> sil2100: so rebuilding should be fine
<sil2100> o>
<sil2100> Should I rebuild everything, or just the ones that failed in the PPA?
<tedg> sil2100, Updated: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicators-client/tests/+merge/170633
<sil2100> tedg: thanks! Approved that already
<tedg> sil2100, Fast!  :-)
<sil2100> ;p
<seb128> jbicha, hey, did you notice that abiword is stucked in proposed for 3 weeks? do you plan to rebuild pyabiword for the library rename? (or ask for it to be dropped since it seems that's what Debian did)
<didrocks> seb128: I would say just the one which failed
<didrocks> sil2100:
<didrocks> ^
<didrocks> sil2100: there is no ABI breakage, nothing :)
<sil2100> I guess ;)
<jbicha> seb128: it is possible to get pyabiword to build with the new abiword but the bigger problem is that pyabiword doesn't work & is unmaintained so I filed bug 1187435
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1187435 in pyabiword (Ubuntu) "Please remove pyabiword" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187435
<sil2100> didrocks: just out of curosity - when we're publishing things for daily-release to saucy, the source packages are pushed to the archive and rebuilt - yes?
<didrocks> sil2100: hum, not sure to get you :)
<didrocks> ah, the question is what publication does? :)
<seb128> jbicha, can you get it to build?  the sugar stuff was useful, I'm not sure I'm comfortable deciding to just delete those, I would prefer to let whoever care fixes those or drop if needed
<jbicha> except that pyabiword has been broken for quite a while and I haven't found a distro that's managed to get it to work
<jbicha> that sugar stuff doesn't work because pyabiword is quite broken
<jbicha> bug 1020074
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1020074 in pyabiword (Ubuntu) "Segfault when importing abiword" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020074
<jbicha> it's still in unstable so if anyone does figure it out, the packages can be easily re-added to Ubuntu
<sil2100> didrocks: yes ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: so, no rebuild involved: it's a binary copy from the ppa to distro
<didrocks> sil2100: we have to do that, otherwise, we can't ensure that what we tested is what the user will get (in case it's rebuilt in a different order for instance)
<didrocks> with different build-deps
<didrocks> sil2100: the last paragraph in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/StackPublish#Copy_to_distro for more details
<sil2100> ACK, thanks!
<didrocks> yw :)
<didrocks> sil2100: the only thing that the archives will try to rebuild is if we didn't copy all archs
<didrocks> (like armhf still building, but we force the publication meanwhile)
<didrocks> or no powerpc binary because of some build-deps: it will try to build them and go into build-dep waiting mode ;)
<sil2100> didrocks: hmm, strange thing I see
<sil2100> didrocks: indicator-power failed because of python not getting installed, even though it's in Recommends for libglib2.0-dev
<sil2100> didrocks: aren't we're installing recommends by default?
<sil2100> didrocks: also, I think it's not a good idea to serve an /usr/bin binary with a crucial dependency in recommends
<Laney> not in package builds
<sil2100> Since /usr/bin/gdbus-codegen fails
<sil2100> So hm, basically by installing libglib2.0-dev we can't use all the tools?
<Laney> got a link?
<sil2100> Because indicator-power uses libglib2.0-dev to get its /usr/bin/gdbus-codegen, but can't use it becaue normally python is not installed
<sil2100> Laney: yep, here:
<sil2100> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/142892077/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-armhf.indicator-power_12.10.6daily13.06.20-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sil2100> (all archs had the same thing)
<sil2100> python is in recommends but is not installed
<sil2100> (libglib2.0-dev recommends python)
<Laney> I doubt that is your problem
<Laney> laney@iota> dpkg -S /usr/bin/python                                                                                                        ~
<Laney> python-minimal: /usr/bin/python
<didrocks> sil2100: we do, let me have a look
<didrocks> ah Laney is looking :)
<sil2100> hmmm
<sil2100> Ok, so I wonder what's up
<didrocks> (sorry, was in a discussion)
<sil2100> didrocks: ;)
<sil2100> Laney: do you have any ideas on what can be wrong then?
<Laney> sec
<Laney> sil2100: I guess the advice is to build-dep on python, indeed
<sil2100> Laney, didrocks: so we don't fetch those recommends in builders indeed? Ok, so let's do that, wonder how this was passing before
<Laney> something must have changed its Depends
<didrocks> sil2100: that's possible, I'm sure quite sure if we do it. But anyway, if we rely on python, we should dep on it
<Laney> package builds are supposed to be minimal so they don't install stuff they don't need to (recommends) :-)
<sil2100> didrocks: I can quick fix it and add the python dep to the indicator-power...
<Laney> that's right
<sil2100> Laney: well, if gdbus-codegen needs python then I guess it should depend instead of recommends :D
<didrocks> sil2100: sounds good to me!
<Laney> It's not unheard of for less used features to be moved to recommends
<sil2100> Laney: oh, ok, then that makes sense
<Laney> A lot of glib-using packages will not need python
<Laney> But it's a bit unfortunate that you are quite likely to get python installed in some other way and so not notice this
<sil2100> Indeed
<Laney> oh well, the fix is easy
<sil2100> Laney: thanks for the check!
<Laney> np
<sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/indicator-power/add_python_dep/+merge/170655
<sil2100> Anyone ^
 * sil2100 looks at didrocks and Laney with teary eyes
<Laney> i don't have powers for that :(
<didrocks> sil2100: how can I resist then? approved! :)
<sil2100> ;)
<jbicha> stgraber would like to have users who have been using the gnome-session-fallback session to automatically be transitioned to the new gnome-session-flashback but that looks pretty tricky
<jbicha> session-migration won't help since we want to change user's configurations *before* they log in
<Laney> does the fallback session go away?
<jbicha> it was just renamed; it's still powered by gnome-panel 3
<Laney> symlinks?
<jbicha> that might work but I'm thinking the system would store that it was running gnome-session-fallback instead of -flashback so we'd have to keep those symlinks forever?
<Laney> probably
<Laney> do you know where it's stored?
<seb128> have it migrated after login then you can drop it after the lts
<seb128> didrocks did that when they renamed the gnome/ubuntu/unity sessions
<jbicha> not exactly, there's ~/.dmrc; there's /var/lib/AccountsService/users/; there's gsettings org.gnome.session session-name; and even lightdm.conf has something too
<seb128> just keep using the old filename
<seb128> that's easier
<seb128> who cares, that's just a name on disc
<seb128> you can change the description
<Laney> I think that might be easiest
<didrocks> and safest
<didrocks> we had a 3 year-plan transition with lightdm and did it :)
<mlankhorst> Laney: http://buienradar.nl/bliksem-1-uur .. shall I bike today?
<mlankhorst> lightning stuff is near me atm
<Laney> seems to be moving away :P
<mlankhorst> yeah.. but not sure if nothing else is coming or not..
<Laney> bike to your local climbing centre and do some fun bouldering
<mlankhorst> >:D
<mlankhorst> bbs
<mlankhorst> food
<mlankhorst> and the rain is gone, I'm off to bike, muahah
<desrt> seb128: what do i get blamed for today?
 * didrocks waves good evening
<Laney> desrt: He was searching for people to blame for https://launchpadlibrarian.net/142386450/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-armhf.gtk+3.0_3.8.2-0ubuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<larsu> kenvandine: let's try this again: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/+junk/gsettings-qt
<larsu> kenvandine: I'll make a proper project out of it after lunch
<larsu> compile with qmake for now, use like so: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5784344/  (run from $top_srcdir with `qmlscene -I . test.qml`)
<larsu> seb128: ^^
<larsu> kenvandine: most importantly: won't work without the qt5 edgers ppa because of lp #1187746
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1187746 in qtdeclarative-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "Please provide fix for QTBUG-31226" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187746
<seb128> larsu, danke
<seb128> desrt, gtk tests fail on arm, it looked at first that it was getting corrupted resources out of gresources ... but that was only a first, I extracted the css and it's valid
<pitti> seb128: hm, the new libgpgme11 pulls in gnupg-agent gnupg2 libassuan0 libksba8 pinentry-gtk2
<pitti> seb128: do we really want all that? it's quite sizable, and pulls in old gtk2 stuff
<seb128> pitti, I saw yes, that's coming from Debian ... we should probably demote some recommends to suggests
<seb128> well, at least pinentry-gtk2
<seb128> the other ones seem fine to me
<pitti> --no-install-recommends still pulls these in
<Laney> it's Depends: gnupg2 probably
<seb128> gnupg-agent depends on pinentry-gtk2 | pinentry-curses | pinentry
<seb128> gnupg2 depends on gnupg-agent
<Laney> they switched from gnupg to gnupg2
<Laney> afaict
<Laney> the former not having as many dependencies
<pitti> perhaps our gnome-keyring bits should Provide: gnupg-agent?
<Laney> (or features)
<Laney> it seems to call the binary
<pitti> meh; not good
<Laney> sorry, I mean gpg not gpg-agent
<Laney> so maybe Provides would work to cut off that chain
<Laney> ah, but the dep is versioned from gnupg2
<seb128> Laney, pitti: we should maybe demote the depends on gnupg-agent to a suggest
<seb128> or | gnome-keyring
<Laney> Don't know what would be correct there
<Laney> Easiest might be to go back to gnupg from gpgme
<Laney> maybe defining a virtual package would be a good idea
<Laney> anyway, i'm off, let's think about that tomorrow
<Laney> night
<seb128> Laney, 'night
<seb128> it seems backward to stay on an outdated gnupg version though
<seb128> desrt, I guess you don't have a saucy/armhf device with you?
<Saviq> larsu, ooh, so slim was enough?
<larsu> Saviq: hm?
<larsu> oh, gsettings-qt. ya :)
<Saviq> larsu, lp:~larsu/+junk/gsettings-qt
<larsu> yep, qqmlpropertymap ftw
<kenvandine> larsu, cool, i'm on it
<larsu> it does what 90% of dconf-qt codebase used to do
<larsu> the remaining 10% is now gsettings
<larsu> so there wasn't that much left :)
<Saviq> larsu, one thing I was recently thinking (although this can be a wrapper around gsettings-qt)
<Saviq> larsu, is that we might need to have different defaults per-form-factor
<larsu> Saviq: note that this only contains qml bindings right now (not really usable from qt)
<Saviq> larsu, yeah, who cares about qt these days ;P
<Saviq> larsu, and not only different defaults, but different values
<larsu> Saviq: interesting. I don't think dconf has facilities for this kind of thing, but you'd need to talk to desrt about it
<larsu> well, I guess we might be able to get something working with relocatable schemas
<Saviq> larsu, yeah, I think we might be fine with a flat key/value, assuming we'll be smart at e.g. using separate setting databases for different form factors, or a prefix / suffix
<larsu> Saviq: yeah, I'll talk to desrt about it
<Saviq> larsu, there's some UX questions here, obviously (i.e. if you add an app to the launcher while in phone mode, should it get added in desktop mode as well?)
<Saviq> larsu, and it's probably a per-setting question, too
<Saviq> larsu, but yeah, just food for thought for now
<larsu> Saviq: right, we will probably have to support both for different keys (i.e. you might want different launcher items and backgrounds on your phone, but share lists of locations that you'd like to get the time in your clock for)
<larsu> ooh, this is a tricky subject
<Saviq> larsu, indeed ;)
<larsu> kenvandine, Saviq: I put lgplv3 in the headers, is that correct?
<Saviq> larsu, AFAIK, yes
<kenvandine> yes
<larsu> cool, thanks
<larsu> kenvandine: I pushed it into lp:gsettings-qt as well
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> i'm adding the cmake magic now
<larsu> awesome! Thanks
<kenvandine> larsu, so what do i need to build this with?
<tkamppeter_> larsu, hi
<kenvandine> larsu, like the pkgconfig packages?
<kenvandine> gio obviously
<larsu> kenvandine: gio and qtqml
<larsu> tkamppeter: hi
<kenvandine> oh, you have it setup for qmake already
<larsu> kenvandine: and it would be cool if that qt patch landed in saucy...
<larsu> kenvandine: yep, qmake && make in the GSettings dir builds it
<Saviq> kenvandine, larsu QtCore, I imagine, too
<larsu> (on my machine *cough*)
<Saviq> larsu, btw http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtcore/qstringlistmodel.html
<kenvandine> do we really need to use cmake for it?
<larsu> kenvandine: nope.
<Saviq> larsu not sure it's the right place, but it would be nice to wrap the stringlist in a model
<larsu> Saviq: which string list? The list of keys?
<Saviq> larsu, no, when a key is a list of values
<larsu> ah!
<larsu> good point.
<Saviq> erm, when a value of a setting is a list
<larsu> ya
<Saviq> larsu, so that only minimal changes are sent to the app (obviously this needs smarts to reduce the changes to a minimum)
<larsu> so that code is almost 1:1 what dconf-qt did
<Saviq> larsu, sure, but who's to say dconf-qt did everything right? ;)
<larsu> Saviq: ha, I wasn't saying that, just that I haven't put much thought into that part :P
<Saviq> larsu, sure
<Saviq> kenvandine, well, CMake is the company policy, right?
<larsu> kenvandine: this is why I asked for it ^^
<Saviq> kenvandine, shouldn't be many more lines than the QMake
<kenvandine> Saviq, i haven't seen that documented anywhere
<larsu> Saviq: is the stringlistmodel something that we need asap?
<Saviq> larsu, no
<Saviq> larsu, it can even be an addition to the API
<larsu> hm, well it would be an API break, right?
<Saviq> larsu, i.e. you can get it as a QStringList, but if you want a model - here!
<larsu> right, but the default would always be a stringlist?
 * larsu is unsure which is more qmly
<Saviq> larsu, model is definitely more qmly
<Saviq> larsu, e.g. items in launcher, you want to move them, not replace the whole set with a new one
<larsu> Saviq: ok. I'll try to add that soon then and make it the default for lists
<kenvandine> i would prefer a model
<Saviq> larsu, but because gsettings doesn't give you such data, you need to extrapolate
<larsu> Saviq: I need to keep a copy of the valus around anyway, so that wouldn't be a problem
<Saviq> larsu, yeah, but to actually minimize the amount of changes (i.e. grouping the items that were moved together), moving from the end instead of from the beginning
<Saviq> larsu, and then because it's a whole new list, you need to add / remove, too
<Saviq> larsu, but initially I'd be fine with a model that's reset() every time
<Saviq> larsu, at least it'd be a model straight away, just the behaviour would improve
<larsu> Saviq: that's a good first step I agree. Everything else will then be an optimization without API breakage
<larsu> right :)
<Saviq> kenvandine, indeed there's no mention of CMake on the preferred tech wiki
<Saviq> kenvandine, but then qmake is being phased out, afaik
<kenvandine> Saviq, right
<Saviq> tvoss, you'll know - is CMake policy now?
<kenvandine> we still have quite a bit of qmake
<tvoss> Saviq, as much as possible, yes
<kenvandine> and is certainly much simpler to deal with
<tvoss> kenvandine, do you see an issue transitioning over to cmake?
<Saviq> kenvandine, that probably depends on how complicated your project is
<kenvandine> it's quite simple and already uses qmake
<kenvandine> i'd prefer just leave it as is
<Saviq> /we need CMake templates for QML plugins
<kenvandine> what we have now in cmake is a real mess
<kenvandine> very inconsistent and copy and paste cruft
<kenvandine> our qmake stuff is much cleaner, imo
<kenvandine> i'd rather us have standard templates for cmake
<Saviq> +1, we need common CMake modules
<kenvandine> before switching stuff
<Saviq> kenvandine, seen http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2013/05/31/qbs-1-release/ btw?
<tkamppeter> larsu, seb128 told me some days ago that bug 959195 occurs for him in Saucy.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 959195 in indicator-printers (Ubuntu) "65 cups notifier processes running" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959195
<kenvandine> Saviq, yup
<tkamppeter> larsu, at lease the symptoms of it.
<kenvandine> Saviq, it looks very interesting
<larsu> tkamppeter: hm, I fixed that two cycles ago... thanks for pointing me to it, I'll talk to him
<Saviq> kenvandine, yeah
<kenvandine> yet another reason to not just up and switch projects :)
<Saviq> ;)
<kenvandine> don't get me wrong... i don't like qmake
<kenvandine> but i surely prefer qmake to cmake :)
<kenvandine> and all build systems suck
<seb128> larsu, talk to me!
<tkamppeter> larsu, thanks.
<larsu> seb128: I was about to when my connection broke. Are you still seeing the issue?
<seb128> larsu, no
<larsu> seb128: the problem was that indicator-printers created too many cups subscriptions
<larsu> I fixed that long time ago, so I can't imagine them being stray processes from back then on your machine
<seb128> larsu, I apparently had a buggy /etc/cups/subscriptions.conf* in there ... I had the issues for months, I never bother asking
<dobey> meh. Alt_L is working correctly in gnome-shell guest session. wtf.
<seb128> larsu, it's gone since I followed your comment and did a rm /etc/cups/subscriptions.conf*
<seb128> larsu, so I guess nothing was cleaning buggy configs left behind?
<larsu> seb128: ah! That's probably it then. I couldn't just clean the subscriptions in an upate to indicator-printers because there might have been "real" subscriptions in there
<larsu> seb128: it was a bit of a screw-up on my part. It should be fixed for you now that you cleaned the conf, let me know if it happens again
<seb128> larsu, thanks, I'm pretty sure it's fixed though, it was consistent for some months and it stopped happening since yesterday
<seb128> larsu, I just had been too lazy to ask about it, I didn't have any noticable issue due to those processes
<seb128> ;-)
<dobey> weird. found something that was set to "Mod2+Alt_L" :(
<seb128> dobey, buggy user config?
<larsu> seb128: ya, they are very lightweight (just a small C program which does nothing but wait for a job to happen in CUPS). It messes with ps output though ;)
<dobey> seb128: what the heck is Mod2?
<seb128> dobey, not sure, r-ctrl is "mod2+control r" for me (that's what I put the HUD on)
<sarnold> mod2 can be set via xmodmap; run xmodmap without arguments to see what it is currently set to
<dobey> i'm quite certain i've never changed that keybinding
<dobey> mod2 is numlock. that doesn't even make any sense :)
<sarnold> same here. my laptop has no numlock. That I know of.. :)
<seb128> dobey, well it's weird, if you go to the keybinding panel and try to set e.g the hud to r-ctrl or r-shit you will get "mod2+rctrl/shift"
<dobey> seb128: the weird thing is that this was the "Switch applications" keybinding
<seb128> weird
<dobey> seb128: I would never have set it to Alt_L, or Alt_L+NumLock. neither of those makes sense. so i wonder how it got changed
<seb128> dobey, buggy software but good luck to figure which one...
<dobey> yeah :-/
<jbicha> attente: indicator-keyboard doesn't work for me
<larsu> Saviq: is there a QVariantListModel as well? I'm unsure what I should do about non-string lists
<larsu> doesn't look like it from a quick search in the docs
<attente> jbicha, i just updated the manifest file and uploaded a new version to the ppa
<larsu> well I guess I can always make my own
<jbicha> attente: yeah I built it from your bzr branch; I'm on saucy with no other ppas except your i-keyboard one
<Saviq> larsu, yeah, there isn't anything built in
<Saviq> larsu, but the API is small enough, I'd say
<attente> jbicha, the fix i pushed was just 5 minutes ago
<attente> jbicha, at least i believe that's what the problem is
<Saviq> larsu, pete-woods did a QVariantListModel by almost c&p QStringListModel
<Saviq> larsu, on one hand that might pose licensing issues, but on the other if you'd do it yourself, you'd end up with 99% same code, probably..
<attente> jbicha, it's at revision 57, i'm not sure if that's the one your local build is based on
<larsu> Saviq: heh, I'll have a look, thanks!
<jbicha> attente: ok, it works after I pulled and rebuilt
<jbicha> I'm not sure that it should say EU for English (United States) though
<jbicha> I don't know if it's my sbuild or if it's bzr-builddeb but it doesn't like that maintainer doesn't have a @ubuntu.com email
<seb128> how so?
<Laney> DEBEMAIL= bzr bd -S
<seb128> right, I never got why it behaves differently if you DEBEMAIL is @ubuntu.com
<jbicha> it's easy to add an Ubuntu team as maintainer
<seb128> especially that I usually hit the issue on ubuntu specific sources, like unity stack
<seb128> it's annoying
<attente> what email should we use instead?
<seb128> run update-maintainer
<seb128> it will set the maintainer to ubuntu-devel group
<seb128> (that's a script in ubuntu-dev-tools ... if you don't have the package install it, it has handy scripts)
<attente> seb128, ok
<seb128> but that warning is just annoying
<seb128> it's a check meant to make sure we update the maintainer info when we take  a debian source and change it
<seb128> so they don't get bugs or emails about our buggy changes ;-)
<attente> you'd think it would be ok with a canonical email though...
<seb128> not sure if the issue is because we use "0ubuntu<n>" revision style
<seb128> we should just claim the namespace and use -1 ;-)
<attente> jbicha, about the EU thing, we were trying to be smart about how it determines the abbreviation
<attente> but if it doesn't work for one of the most popular layouts... maybe it's not so smart after all...
<seb128> heh
<seb128> it doesn't work for Fr either :p
<seb128> it uses FA
<seb128> is that because for "French Alternative"?
<attente> seb128, that's actually a bug on my part :P
<jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageAndText?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=gsd-indicator.png
<seb128> ah... ;-)
<attente> seb128, it sees the cedilla and isn't sure how to parse the format
<attente> so it thinks that the 'a' that follows is a part of a new token
<attente> lol
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> not sure how the old code and GNOME are doing
<seb128> is that info in iso-codes?
<seb128> I never really looked at the logic of other codebases for that...
<jbicha> I'd expect something like En or US
<attente> yeah, gnome is just using the iso code, iirc
<attente> but we're trying to do some weird mish-mash of language and country
<attente> which isn't going to work
<seb128> hum, isn't GNOME trying to do that as well?
<seb128> that topic is complex :/
<seb128> I would say to just go with the simple rule that was used so far if the mix is a can of worm
<seb128> well, if you can get it right and that makes mpt happy that's bonus ;-)
<seb128> we can as well try to push it like that, deal with bug reports, and if that doesn't fly for users then change our strategy and go back to a more classic way...
<jbicha> the wiki does say "first two capital letters from the display name" which does come out to EU
<rickspencer3> hmmm, software-center is not launching for me :
<RAOF> @pilot in
<meetingology> RAOF: Error: "pilot" is not a valid command.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-21
<TheMuso> lol
<RAOF> Am I not a member of ubuntu-sponsors anymore? Could someone please unsubscribe sponsors from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dante/+bug/816153 ?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 816153 in dante (Ubuntu Precise) "dante-server using the wrong libc.so" [Medium,Triaged]
<TheMuso> RAOF: I can re-add you, if you'd like.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yes, please.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Done.
<RAOF> TA
<TheMuso> np
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Good morning pitti!
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> I be fine.
<RAOF> Albeit a bit cold, because Hobart has finally realised that it's winter.
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel!
<jibel> salut didrocks
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, hey! happy summer day
<didrocks> seb128: happy summer day to you too! :)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> salut pitti!
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien ! il ne fait plus chaude \o/
<pitti> "chaud"
<seb128> pitti, pareil ici, 19Â°C
<Laney> hallo
<seb128> Laney, good morning, happy summer day
 * Laney looks outside
<Laney> happy for you, maybe :P
<seb128> better the 19Â°C we have today than the 35Â°C we had mid-week :p
<seb128> Laney, let me fallback to "happy friday" ;-)
<seb128> can't go wrong with friday :p
<Laney> definitely not
<Laney> to be fair it's not cold here, just super cloudy and grey
<Laney> could be worse though ... was hearing about the smog in singapore on the news
<Laney> hyperair: is it bad?
<hyperair> ohoho
<hyperair> hilariously so
<hyperair> it's much better now though
<hyperair> PSI's dropped to 168
<hyperair> it was 400 earlier
<hyperair> visibility at ~800 metres or so
<hyperair> (based on staring out the window and looking at google maps)
<hyperair> oh 145 now apparently.
<hyperair> http://www.nea.gov.sg/psi/
<Laney> wow
<hyperair> it dropped very suddenly. i wonder what happened.
 * hyperair looks for a window
<Laney> well this news story was about indonesia sending helicopters up or something
<Laney> maybe it's working ...
<hyperair> oh they're finally doing that?
 * hyperair heard they sent out about 100 firemen who weren't doing anything.
<hyperair> i wouldn't be surprised if someone paid off some govt officials to stall for time until the wood's done burning so that they don't have to find some other means of clearing their greens.
<Laney> heh
<Laney> you old cynic
<Laney> seb128: have you tried nautilus 3.8 and turning gsd's background plugin back on?
<Laney> does not work for me - still black
<seb128> Laney, no, on my list for today
<seb128> oh :-(
<seb128> does it work if nautilus --quit?
<seb128> e.g is nautilus breaking it?
<seb128> or g-s-d no working?
<seb128> did you restart gsd?
<Laney> but I can do that cool windows 95 thing where you drag a window over the desktop and get a trail
<Laney> restarted the session
 * hyperair lols
<Laney> nautilus --quit fixes it yeah
<seb128> crap
<seb128> ooooh, I know
<hyperair> doesn't that also happen when nautilus crashes?
<Laney> not seen that before
<Sweetshark> Bonjours a tous!
<seb128> hey Bjoern!
<hyperair> in 13.04 killing nautilus leaves a black desktop with artifacts
<seb128> Laney, g-s-d source, plugins/background/gsd-background-manager.c
<seb128>         if (nautilus_is_drawing_background (manager) ||
<seb128>             dont_draw_background (manager)) {
<seb128>                 return;
<seb128>         }
<seb128> l192
<hyperair> no wait, it's just black now
<seb128> you need to drop the nautilus_is_drawing_background()
<hyperair> maybe it's some transient xorg-edgers thing.
<seb128> no
<seb128> that's expected
<Sweetshark> seb128: the good news is LibreOffice 4.1.0~rc1 build on i386. The bad news is it failed on amd64 ... with a strange error that doesnt happen locally.
<seb128> that's what happens when nothing draw on the root win
<Laney> let me try that
<hyperair> seb128: no, i mean i don't get window trails any more.
<Laney> got to go out to a doctors appointment in 10 minutes though
<Sweetshark> or maybe Im not awake enough to get it ...
<seb128> Laney, well it's for sure an issue (maybe not the only one)
<Laney> does new gsd drop this?
<seb128> new g-s-d drops the plugin
<seb128> gnome-shell render the background
<Laney> well that'll solve it ...
<seb128> unity8 should as well
<seb128> but meanwhile...
<hyperair> waait, does that mean nautilus doesn't draw icons on the desktop any more?
<seb128> it does
<Laney> it does that
<seb128> but it doesn't draw the wallpaper
<Laney> only that, not the background
<hyperair> so it draws icons, but not the wallppaer?
<hyperair> oh cool
<seb128> it puts icons on a rgba win
<Laney> but upstream was interested in keeping that functionality though
<hyperair> so compiz's wallpaper plugin would work
<hyperair> =O
<Laney> don't know where that went
<seb128> is there a such plugin?
<hyperair> yes there is
<seb128> Laney, you bet they are :p
<Laney> hyperair: where?
<seb128> Laney, RHEL7 will ship with classic mode by default
<Laney> I don't see it in ccsm
<hyperair> well, there waxs
<hyperair> was*
<hyperair> lemme check
<Laney> might not have some extras package installed
<hyperair> maybe
<seb128> we looked for a compiz plugin for wallpaper previous cycle and didn't find one
<hyperair> http://imgur.com/UUTW1Iv
<seb128> dpkg -S wallpaper | grep compiz ?
<hyperair> compiz-plugins: /usr/lib/compiz/libwallpaper.so
<Laney> yes indeed
<hyperair> Installed: 1:0.9.9~daily13.04.18.1~13.04-0ubuntu1
<hyperair> so there we go
<Laney> let me see if it works
<hyperair> if unity renders the background, it would be good to drop or merge that functionality back to avoid nihing too much
<Laney> enabling it made compiz crash
<Laney> good start
<hyperair> ugh
<hyperair> lemme try
<seb128> Laney, seems about right for compiz :p
<Laney> heh
<seb128> that's its way to reload config :p
<Laney> still no bg ...
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> well in any case enabling compiz plugin on upgrade has proved not reliable
<Laney> oh, ok
<seb128> and I'm not sure it got well tested and include all the GNOME options
<seb128> like solid color background, etc
<Laney> seems you have to specify it in the compiz configuration, doesn't read from gsettings
<hyperair> ugh, doesn't handle multihead.
<seb128> need to reboot, be back in 30min
<hyperair> Laney: it works here, but stretches my wallpaper across both heads.
<Laney> did it pick up your gnome configured wallpaper?
<hyperair> nope
<hyperair> had to add it in via ccsm
<Laney> well that's a bit of a problem
<Laney> and it's what I said above
<hyperair> that can be patched, can't it?
<Laney> mayhap
<Laney> might not be worth the effort though given its future (if gsd's background plugin works)
<Laney> http://ubuntuone.com/5WoJAca0zI67a3PtTBAfKk
<hyperair> heh yeah
<hyperair> argle, FBO_ATTACHMENT_IS_INCOMPLETE
<Laney> better go to this appointment
<Laney> back shortly
<didrocks> sil2100: hey, do you need anything from me? FYI, I'll be away in 30 minutes for ~2 hours
<sil2100> didrocks: !
<sil2100> Hi!
<sil2100> Let me think quickly ;P
<sil2100> didrocks: could you quickly ACK some packaging changes for daily-release? Those are mostly the symbols-file mods that have been done last time
<sil2100> didrocks: let me paste those
<didrocks> sil2100: excellent!
<sil2100> Thanks ;)
<didrocks> thank you! :)
<seb128> back
<didrocks> wb seb128
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> having fun with Dell support ... they will call me back this afternoon when my computer is in sloooow mode
<seb128> I need some heat and cpu use :p
<didrocks> seb128: want to build a webkit? :p
<seb128> didrocks, no, thanks, still debugging gtk ... though that's the n7 there
<seb128> unity-greeter build failed yesterday because gtk was displaying the same warning
<seb128> so it's a real bug in gtk, not a problem with the test
<sil2100> charles, chrisccoulson: ping
<seb128> sil2100, hey, what do you need from them?
<seb128> it's a bit early for charles
<sil2100> seb128: hi! One of the libdbusmenu unit tests fail for armhf, wanted to get some insight from someone that knows the code
<seb128> sil2100, link?
<darkxst> seb128, ok to cherry pick the 3 icon patches from here https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/log/?h=gtk-3-8
<darkxst> I suspect they will fix a few of the really annoying crashes we are seeing in nautilus and gnome-shell, but can't really verify that
<seb128> darkxst, I did cherrypick the most common segfault one earlier in the week
<darkxst> seb128, the nautilus one?
<seb128> darkxst, after verifying it fixes the nautilus segfault
<seb128> yes
<seb128> the other ones are more intrusive, I would prefer have some upstream testing time before cherrypicking
<darkxst> ok we are still getting some crashes in gnome-shell though
<seb128> the new gtk is in the archive for less than a day
<seb128> are you sure you still have issues and people upgraded and restarted their running instance of the shell?
<seb128> they maybe still had gnome-shell running from before the update
<seb128> sil2100, hello?
<darkxst> yeh who knows, will leave it a couple of days and see
<seb128> we will get the other fixes in anyway
<seb128> just give them a few days of upstream testing, as said there are some non trivial changes there
<sil2100> seb128: oh, sorry!
<sil2100> One moment :)
<sil2100> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4733356
<darkxst> seb128, sure
<seb128> Laney, hum, so that doesn't work, I wonder if there is a stacking there or something
<Laney> that?
<Laney> the gsd thing?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> I tried to enable the compiz plugin, that works
<seb128> but the background goes over nautilus icons
<seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+bug/1159430 has quite some details from Adam Dingle on the issue
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1159430 in Ubuntu GNOME "Nautilus 3.7.92 breaks desktop background on Unity" [Low,Confirmed]
<seb128> he has a compiz patch on there
<seb128> " The code there does check for desktop windows (i.e. of type _NET_WM_WINDOW_TYPE_DESKTOP) and prevents them from being transparent."
<seb128> cf comment #15
<Laney> mmm, he's done a fair bit of work there
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> but I don't like how flaky that is, and how many components it impacts on
<seb128> we are up to 5 components to patch, including compiz
<seb128> Laney, I'm pondering going with the patch from #21, aka revert the rgba changes
<Laney> I found another place in the background plugin
<Laney> see 521-ish
<Laney> in plugins/background/gsd-background-manager.c
<seb128> Laney, I'm asking sam on  #ubuntu-unity about compiz
<Laney> ** (gnome-settings-daemon:28327): DEBUG: Draw background? no
<Laney> getting further
<Laney> hrm, gnome-session crashed
<seb128> Laney, I got it working
<seb128> Laney, by dropping that check as well
<Laney> yeah?
<Laney> it's all weird here
<seb128> Laney, and by changing the nautilus wm hint to not be _DESKTOP (to workaround the compiz issue)
<seb128> Laney, Sam is looking at compiz
<Laney> 'it' = compiz?
<seb128> 'it' being: nautilus 3.8 + gsd to display the background
<Laney> aha
<Laney> does sam think he can fix compiz for that?
<seb128> Laney, so to get there I had to drop the 2 gsd checks, tweak the theme .css with the patch from the bug I pointed, change the nautilus hint to workaround compiz trying to be clever
<seb128> enable back the g-s-d plugin
<seb128> we are not quite there yet :/
<seb128> Laney, he's looking at it
<Laney> and it makes use of a gsd 3.6 only plugin
<sil2100> mlankhorst: hi!
<seb128> well, Sam is looking at making things work with compiz's wallpaper plugin
<mlankhorst> g'day
<seb128> unity8 will draw the background
<Laney> right
<seb128> and it's not hard to add the g-s-d plugin back meanwhile, it's not like it was a patch to rebase
<seb128> it's just a dir to add back
<sil2100> mlankhorst: I've been wondering - since the new X + unity needs a call for testing, right? Is that being prepared?
<sil2100> For all drivers
<mlankhorst> erm the drivers are fine, it's the same drivers with a bump to rebuild abi, and opengl doesn't change at all
<sil2100> So no call for testing is necessary you think?
<Laney> anyway, there's a kind of path here
<Laney> seb128: care to summarise on the bug?
<mlankhorst> indeed, but a newer fglrx is still needed atm
<seb128> Laney, will do, I'm pondering patch back nautilus old desktop drawing back meanwhile so we can update to 3.8
<seb128> then we can get compiz, the theme, etc fixed
<seb128> and drop the patch when moons are aligned
<sil2100> mlankhorst: so, are we blocked on something to get this released?
<Laney> seb128: is that alright for shell?
<seb128> Laney, it's not any different than keeping nautilus 3.6 as from today...
<mlankhorst> sil2100: I think tseliot needs to push a newer fglrx, still, but that's about
<mlankhorst> it
<tseliot> mlankhorst: BTW problem solved with fglrx and 3.10 :)
<mlankhorst> oh there we go, no blockers then?
<sil2100> Excellent
<tseliot> sil2100: what drivers do you need?
<sil2100> Well, I would still feel a bit better if we had a call for testing though... I'm always worried, even with things that seem to 'not break anything'
<mlankhorst> tseliot: we need it in the archive..
<tseliot> mlankhorst: ok which one and what version?
<Laney> seb128: yeah, true, just thought of that too
<mlankhorst> tseliot: whichever works with x1.14 :-)
<Laney> so yeah, go ahead in the strong hope that it's not something we keep until the end of unity 7 :-)
<sil2100> tseliot: I meant it more like "let's have everyone test the new X + unity tested by a wide audience of all drivers to see if nothing got broken"
<sil2100> ;)
<mlankhorst> unity won't break from a new x, it will break from a new mesa..
<tseliot> mlankhorst: so, I shouldn't even bother packaging the stable driver without ABI 14 support?
<mlankhorst> probably not :-)
<tseliot> sil2100, mlankhorst: as I can simply upload the latest beta of fglrx with ABI 14 support
<tseliot> and then update it to stable when that is available
<sil2100> tseliot: sounds fine with me
<tseliot> ok then
<sil2100> tseliot, mlankhorst: so, once fglrx is released, we'll be able to release the new X, yes? Since I need to coordinate the release of the new unity with the new xi
<tseliot> sil2100: yes, that's correct. Both fglrx and nvidia will work with the new X
<sil2100> cyphermox: arrgh, you still didn't push your changes to indicators-client? I'll modify those deps myself then
<seb128> sil2100, libdbusmenu tests seem to be flacky in trunk
<sil2100> seb128: I'm waiting for Ted to poke him about this anyway
 * didrocks is ready to build whatever webkit version is needed, 35GB free now \o/
<desrt> Laney: have you been following this ext4/glib/dconf data loss saga?
<Laney> desrt: not so much, but I see Debian took a revert from walters
<Laney> from yesterday
<desrt> Laney: probably you should be aware of this.  we're reverting commits on master and i'm currently arguing with ted ts'o
<desrt> i think ubuntu carries the change, so i recommend that you revert it asap
<Laney> which is going to be in the package I'm currently building
<desrt> oh.  great.
<Laney> just the one though - anything else?
<desrt> note also: mclasen backported the change into the stable branch (?!?)
<desrt> so make sure you didn't SRU it and if you did, SRU a fix
<Laney> we only have 2.36.0
<desrt> cool
<desrt> i have a sneaky suspicion that it's actually the fallocate() causing the problem, not the lack of fsync()
<Laney> how's the argument going?
<desrt> ....ted ts'o is.... an interesting individual
<Laney> ho hum
<desrt> his reply to my request for clarification turned into an impressive rant about an obsessive-compulsively-window-positioning woman who plays tuxracer all the time on proprietary drivers that crash her system
<Laney> er, right, I'm sure that helped clarify the problem
<didrocks> sil2100: hey, coming to the news! :)
<didrocks> sil2100: so apps in manual publishing mode, is it wanted?
<didrocks> (and you did look I guess on the other stacks failing?)
<sil2100> didrocks: yes,
<sil2100> didrocks: I mean:
<sil2100> didrocks: apps failed during the check job last time (singular failure) but I re-ran it
<didrocks> sil2100: ah, it's in manual publishing mode now :)
<sil2100> didrocks: now I can publish it, thanks for pointing it out! Indicators is failind because of libdbusmenu failing unit test for armhf
<Laney> mlankhorst: I think my SPDs are damaging one of my ankles :(
<didrocks> sil2100: do you think it's a flacky thing?
<Laney> One which has previously had surgery and contains metal
<Laney> Started to get some weird aching in the last few days and I just realised it's probably because of this
<sil2100> didrocks: looked like some introspection thing, so I was guessing just something got broken with autopilot
<sil2100> didrocks: I also poked mlankhorst regarding the new X + unity
<sil2100> didrocks: he said no call for testing is needed, and once tseliot releases the new fglrx it's all ready for release
<tseliot> yes, hopefully my uploads will finish soon...
<seb128> sil2100, mlankhorst: we told asac and olli we would give them advance warning with a ppa for testing
<seb128> so call for testing is needed
<seb128> mlankhorst, ^
<seb128> that's not optional
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, and unity/webcreds failing is under control?
<sil2100> That's fine with me, since I wanted the call for testing anyway
<seb128> mlankhorst, some people are concerned there might be issues with the new xorg stack and didn't want to upgrade at all to avoid taking risks, the tradeoff was that we do another call for testing so please do that
<seb128> sil2100, ^
<seb128> sil2100, mlankhorst: thanks ;-)
<sil2100> didrocks: the unity failure was strange, but I thought that mhr3_ is in the middle of debugging
<didrocks> sil2100: ok
<sil2100> Will talk to him in a moment about it
<mhr3_> sil2100, i didn't get a chance to connect to it, our meeting got prolonged
<sil2100> Uh
<sil2100> :)
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> ;p
<seb128> Laney, can you push your UNRELEASED->saucy+tag revision to nautilus' vcs?
<didrocks> sil2100: hum, so what are you doing for Unity? ;)
<didrocks> and apps?
<Laney> seb128: oh yes, that, ok
<jbicha> seb128: you know that Classic Mode is just GNOME Shell with a lighter gray theme and a few extensions?
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<sil2100> didrocks: ah! I'll publish apps now, I'm busy with trying to unblock parts of webcreds
<seb128> jbicha, yes, why?
<didrocks> sil2100: kenvandine is online, he can maybe help :)
<Laney> oh, whoops, I cleared that VCS out this morning
<didrocks> sil2100: oh, well, if apps can be published without webcreds, sure :)
<didrocks> sil2100: but I think nothing is preventing just to relaunch unity tests, right?
<sil2100> didrocks: the packaging changes you ACK? :) http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Apps/job/cu2d-apps-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_webbrowser-app_0.20daily13.06.21-0ubuntu1.diff
<jbicha> seb128: nothing, just clarifying your earlier comment
<seb128> Laney, can you copy back the diff and copy? I would do it by vcs is half merged with jbicha's 3.8 update at this point
<seb128> jbicha, what did I say?
<didrocks> sil2100: I merged it, so yeah ;)
<Laney> easily rectified
<Laney> done
<jbicha> seb128: never mind, the conversation was just hard to follow at that point
<seb128> jbicha, alright
<seb128> jbicha, in any case I'm going to upload nautilus 3.8 with the background changes reverted today
<kenvandine> sil2100, ah... do you know what is blocking webcred?
<seb128> jbicha, sam has a fix for compiz already, so once we get that merged and in the archive we can drop the patch again and use g-s-d
<sil2100> kenvandine: libsignon-glib is failing because of the linking issue
<kenvandine> sil2100, i haven't looked yet... but so much is failing to build it must be somewhere else
<sil2100> kenvandine: there's also one package that's failing because of an unit test on armhf
<kenvandine> yesterday they were all failing on armhf because of held packages
<kenvandine> gvfs or something
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, the gtk arch mismatch is resolved
<kenvandine> seb128, great
<kenvandine> so today they are real failures :/
<seb128> kenvandine, hey btw, happy friday ;-)
<sil2100> kenvandine: it's an unit test failure, so I doubt it would be related ;)
<Laney> but that test failure was because of a genuine bug
<seb128> kenvandine, do you think you have some spare slot to review Laney's background plugin today? would be good to get that in
<kenvandine> seb128, yes... i will do it right now :)
<didrocks> seb128: but stacks being green is a priority! stealer of kenvandine's time :p
<jbicha> seb128: Arch has a gnome-settings-daemon-compat package they pieced together from abandoned bits of g-s-d
<jbicha> https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/community.git/tree/trunk?h=packages/gnome-settings-daemon-compat
<jbicha> it was mentioned on https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-flashback-list/2013-April/msg00001.html
<kenvandine> yeah... i spent like half my day reviewing branches yesterday... and never got back to finishing laney's
<kenvandine> sorry Laney, let me knock that out before i get distracted again
<seb128> jbicha, I will just go for the easiest way and patch that back in g-s-d to start
<Laney> /o\
<Laney> np
<seb128> jbicha, unity will take over rendering the background at some point anyway
<seb128> jbicha, so I don't plan to invest effort in packaging code that will go away
<jbicha> yeah, Unity or Compiz handling it would be best
<jbicha> it would still be an issue for those trying to use Flashback with Metacity but there's like no developers supporting that currently
<jbicha> stgraber: highvoltage: you're aware of the wallpaper difficulties, right? ^
<asac> sil2100: seb128: call for testing: please CC olli and kgunn directly in your call
<seb128> jbicha, well, the first step solution with g-s-d should make it a no issue for most flavors
<seb128> asac, ok
<asac> (and get their explicit ack :) ...)
<asac> thx
<highvoltage> jbicha: I remember reading about it but haven't checked it out yet
<sil2100> asac: ACK
<seb128> asac, yw, oh and enjoy your holidays!
<asac> thanks!!
<ogra_> huh ? didnt you just have a month off ?
<seb128> Laney, is your recent nautilus fix needed for 3.8?
<Laney> it's a different patch
<Laney> I posted it to the upstream bug
<seb128> Laney, do you have it somewhere?
<seb128> oh ok
 * seb128 goes to grab that
<kenvandine> Laney, approved
<Laney> kenvandine: \o/
<Laney> thanks for looking
<kenvandine> Laney, isn't SwappableImage and UbuntuSwappableImage redundant?
<seb128> Laney, sil2100: https://code.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz/compiz.fix_1159430/+merge/170822
<kenvandine> i think it would be cleaner to collapse that
<kenvandine> but i don't feel strongly enough to reject it :)
<mitya57> didrocks, mterry: I'm going to merge qtwebkit from debian at some point, which introduced a build-dep on qttools5-dev-tools, should I add a qttools task to bug 1192567?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1192567 in qtsensors-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "[MIR] qt5webkit " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192567
<Laney> kenvandine: yeah they could be, I was just trying to provide a UbuntuSwappableImage with some defaults
<Laney> USI will hopefully go away anyway though
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> this is iterative development :)
<didrocks> mitya57: do you mind waiting a little bit? I would hope that we can first get that main transition done, and then trying to merge to debian
<didrocks> with*
<didrocks> mitya57: if you don't mind :)
<kenvandine> i don't want to slow down velocity :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: ;)
<mitya57> didrocks: OK, I'll wait, and then file a new MIR for qttools
<kenvandine> hehe
<Laney> good chap
<didrocks> mitya57: thanks :)
<Laney> that's why I didn't wait until that got in the toolkit
 * mitya57 has done 4 Qt merges today, looks enough
<Laney> that + I can't quite make the generic swappable image work yet :P
<kenvandine> ah, so SwappableImage is going in the sdk?
<kenvandine> cool!
<Laney> well, I'm first proposing a generic CrossFadeImage which is split out of unity 8
<Laney> but you can't put that into UbuntuShape just yet so I'll propose another component which can take it
<Laney> hopefully the sdk guys will like it enough
<kenvandine> very useful
<sil2100> seb128: thanks, will look into that one! We're not doing daily-releases of compiz right now though, hm
<seb128> sil2100, see #ubuntu-unity as well
<kenvandine> Laney, i actually wanted something like that for my instagram app :)
<seb128> sil2100, speaking fo compiz we will need a landing at some point, the current version ftfbs in saucy
<Laney> I quite like the effect
<mitya57> didrocks: do you want me to commit your today's upload to bzr?
<seb128> sil2100, see http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20130614-saucy.html
<mterry> mitya57, ah sure
<didrocks> mitya57: I'm unsure if this is still valid in 5.1
<mterry> mitya57, oh, didrocks already answered
<didrocks> mitya57: I wanted to discuss it with Mirv, but he's on holidays
<mitya57> didrocks: at least adding a changelog entry can be helpful
<didrocks> mitya57: sure, please feel free to do it ;)
<mitya57> done
<didrocks> thx!
<mlankhorst> seb128: I'm going to need a compatible unity then :/
<kenvandine> seb128, larsu: i uploaded gsettings-qt to ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa
<seb128> mlankhorst, just rebase the patch on unity trunk and upload that to your ppa?
<seb128> kenvandine, larsu: \o/
<larsu> kenvandine: awesome! That was fast :)
<kenvandine> and the patch to qtdeclarative is in saucy
<kenvandine> so should be good for real use :)
<kenvandine> larsu, get some tests and we'll start daily releasing it :)
<larsu> kenvandine: planning to do that today, after finally reviewing some of desrt's patches
<dobey> kenvandine: is there a problem with using qtwebkit with qt5 btw?
<kenvandine> dobey, a few problems
<kenvandine> it isn't in main yet... and we don't want to support it in main long term
<kenvandine> we have a long term solution
<dobey> which is?
<kenvandine> consolidated webkit of sorts
<kenvandine> so we only have one version of webkit to maintain
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson is working on it
<dobey> you mean, building all the binary packages from the one lp:webkit source, sort of thing?
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> so instead of having a bunch of packages that bundle their own forks of different versions of webkit
<kenvandine> so instead
<kenvandine> so no... not one source package
<dobey> except for all the ones that still will :)
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> stop using the bundled forks of webkit
<Sarvatt> is there a newer unity snapshot planned for upload today?
<Saviq> tedg, greyback had the idea that it's maybe upstart that should report app launched to zg
<kenvandine> we'll rebuild webkitgtk, webkitqt, etc
<Saviq> tedg, wtyt?
<kenvandine> based on our webkit
<tedg> Saviq, In the upstart job, yeah, we could do that.
<Saviq> tedg, yeah, exactly
<Sarvatt> I need to update https://launchpad.net/~canonical-x/+archive/x-staging but don't want to put 0619 and do a call for testing if there's going to be a 0621 that breaks the world because it doesn't support that xserver..
<Saviq> tedg, would include jobs started from the console
<tedg> Saviq, Yeah, I think that makes sense.
<Saviq> tedg, cool, who could look at doing that?
<tedg> Saviq, I think it's going to be me.  Do you guys know what schema you want it as?  (in zg)
<Saviq> tedg, I think whatever schema it is currently there in
<Saviq> tedg, only we might need to add stage and form factor hints
<tedg> Saviq, Heh
<tedg> Saviq, Where are we getting the formfactor from BTW.
<tedg> I'd like to make that into an upstart event as well.
<tedg> So that we can make indicators handle it correctly.
<Saviq> tedg, for scopes it's the shell that "tells" the scope with each connection / search what form factor results it's interested in
<Saviq> tedg, and I think we went for the same for indicators
<greyback> tedg: can use notify_desktop_launch() in libglib as reference code, see gio/gdesktopappinfo.c
<Saviq> tedg, i.e. https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity/8.indicators-client/+merge/168022, line 4074
<tedg> Saviq, We perhaps want to start different executables based on form factor though, so we could have a job "start on form-factor DEVICE=phone"
<Saviq> tedg, for now we're hardcoding "phone"
<tedg> greyback, Cool, thanks!
<Saviq> tedg, that's too limited
<tedg> Saviq, It's also encoded in the indicator files, for the more complex cases.
<Saviq> tedg, we need to be able to have different form factors per screen
<Saviq> on a single device
<tedg> Ah, I see.
<tseliot> sil2100: the drivers are in
<sil2100> tseliot: excellent! Thanks for the info :)
<tseliot> :)
<didrocks> sil2100: on unity: I would say we can consider the number of tests passing right, the fact that the check job failed is due to the previous run timeouting I guess
<didrocks> sil2100: FYI, just rerun publishing forcing forcing
<sil2100> didrocks: I was looking at those, felt a bit strange indeed
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, it's a bad logic side effect I guess
<sil2100> I saw some strangeness in the test results, but I guess we have those since a while
<sil2100> Like the trash left open, some nautilus windows ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: something we can fix with the dashboard having the logic :p
<didrocks> yep :)
<sil2100> didrocks: ACK, I think we also need to finally clean up this autopilot tests in unity one day ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: so, we are in manual publishing mode before of indicators and webcred
<didrocks> sil2100: that would be niceÂ¿
<didrocks> â¦
<sil2100> In webcreds I unblocked libsignon-glib, not sure how's the status of the failing unit test
<didrocks> sil2100: do you think you can force publication of unity or you are afraid of indicators and webcreds deps?
<sil2100> didrocks: I think we can force publication, there wasn't much changes in indicators and webcreds I guess
<sil2100> kenvandine: right?
<didrocks> sil2100: you know, Friday evening is the perfect timing for this :p
<sil2100> didrocks: I'll check the stack on my own body and force publication if all is ok - and if you ACK the diffs ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: oh, there are some diffs?
 * didrocks didn't notice
<didrocks> oh right
<sil2100> music and videoz
<didrocks> sil2100: hum, does the unity-lens-video-remote doesn't need anymore unity-lens-video?
<didrocks> (as the deps is removed)
<kenvandine> nothing big has changed in webcred
<sil2100> pstolowski: ^ ?
<didrocks> mhr3_: you did that change ^
<kenvandine> i'll get the build going
<didrocks> and bind to a totally unrelated MP
<kenvandine> but it's safe to publish the other stacks without it
<didrocks> as for the other one :p
<kenvandine> no API changes or anything like that
<mhr3_> didrocks, yep
<mhr3_> didrocks, same with music
<didrocks> mhr3_: why is it in the same MP?
<mhr3_> didrocks, scopes are independent these days
<didrocks> mhr3_: that makes the changelog weird :p
<mhr3_> didrocks, cause i'm lazy to create branches for 2line changes
<didrocks> mhr3_: in that case, please inform debian/changelog manually
<mhr3_> it's a separate rev though :P
<didrocks> mhr3_: especially when doing packaging change
<didrocks> mhr3_: well, it's one merge in trunk
<mhr3_> didrocks, you mean to bump the debian version when doing changes to debian/*?
<didrocks> sil2100: other than being disappointed from mhr3_, +1 on packaging changes then for the unity stack :p
<didrocks> mhr3_: no, just tell "remove the dep on â¦" in debian/changelog
<mhr3_> didrocks, noted, sorry
<didrocks> mhr3_: no worry, I'm just so so so dissapointed :p
<didrocks> I thought of a bug in my code first! :)
<mhr3_> didrocks, "i'm not mad, i'm just disappointed" :)
<didrocks> heh
<mhr3_> but apparently today is the day when /me does things wrong
<didrocks> mhr3_: unfortunately, the next run didn't block while doing testsâ¦
<didrocks> ah?
<mhr3_> didrocks, let's just say it's not today's first screwup
<mhr3_> didrocks, why didn't it block?
<didrocks> mhr3_: well, we didn't get the "dbus/mem full" issue
<didrocks> mhr3_: even if the rerun was without rebooting the machine
<mhr3_> oh that kind of block
<didrocks> jibel: FYI ^
<sil2100> didrocks: tested just upgrading packages from the unity stack and all seems to work, so I publish!
<didrocks> mhr3_: yeah, the one we don't want, but need to debug :p
<didrocks> sil2100: \o/
<sil2100> Friday releases are nice
<didrocks> heh
<mhr3_> didrocks, right, right
<ogra_> sil2100, only the untested ones
<ogra_> else it is less exciting
<mhr3_> didrocks, any chance to add a hook to send a mail to me when it's running for >2 hours? :)
<didrocks> ogra_: we can do that if needed! :)
<ogra_> heh
<didrocks> mhr3_: well, not that easy, I think I'll ping you as we did, hopefully, you won't be in meeting :p
 * seb128 is away for ~1h
<tedg> seb128, Do you know if anyone is preparing a g-s-d upload?  It seems the upstart job there is what's breaking the unity one.
<Laney> tedg: what's wrong with it?
<tedg> Laney, It's waiting on gnome-session or unity, but unity needs to start after g-s-d so that the XAtoms are set.
<tedg> Laney, So we're setting up a circular dependency by fixing the Unity one.
<tedg> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/unity/upstart-job/+merge/170709
<tedg> With that fix to the Unity side, and the g-s-d fix.  We get to a good place.
<Laney> Hrm.
<kenvandine> seb128, can you do a preNEW review of lp:gsettings-qt for me?
<Laney> I'm not sure about this.
<tedg> Laney, What's your concern?
<Laney> I don't really get why what we have now is wrong
<Laney> the manual starting of unity-panel-service is weird
<tedg> It's a fallback case.  It'll go away once we migrate everyone over.
<tedg> We don't want unity to start until after g-s-d
<tedg> And we don't want two jobs emitting desktop-start
<Laney> 'starting' is supposed to do that
<Laney> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/raring/en/man7/starting.7.html
<Laney> see the example
<tedg> Laney, Sure, but we want started here.
<Laney> it says 'if unity is starting, start this job (g-s-d)'
<Laney> and blocks until it's finished
<tedg> "started before and stopped after it"
<tedg> We want started after it.
<Laney> you want g-s-d started before
<tedg> Yes
<tedg> So unity should be "start on started g-s-d"
<xnox> Laney: yeah, if unity is "start on started g-s-d" and gsd is "start on starting unity" neither will ever start.
<Laney> unity isn't start on started gsd
<Laney> it's start on xsession SESSION=ubuntu
<xnox> Laney: the new one, is.
<Laney> yes, but that's not what we have now
<tedg> Laney, We don't want it to start then, we want it to start after g-s-d.
<Laney> why?
<tedg> Laney, The g-s-d job can't block the unity job.
<xnox> Laney: but that's what's proposed for unity to be changed to. Thus, g-s-d needs a change as well.
<Laney> the goal is to start unity
<tedg> Laney, Because g-s-d sets XAtoms that we want set before unity runs.
<Laney> and that should cause all of the other services to start
<Laney> which 'starting unity' gets you
<tedg> Starting unity doesn't cause the Unity start to block.
<xnox> tedg: have you verified that XAtoms are not set, in the current configuration.
<xnox> tedg: it should be block atm.
<xnox> s/block/blocked/
<xnox> Laney: g-s-d has on condition, thus only one of the gnome-session or unity are blocked. as per http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#block-another-job-until-yours-has-started
<xnox> Laney: tedg: when running unity, is gnome-session also spawned/started?
<Laney> it's stopped by unity's pre-start script
<Laney> tedg: how do I check this XAtoms thing?
<Laney> in the current setup, in a saucy desktop VM I can comment out the starting condition for gnome-session and the pre-start script in unity and then I get a unity session
<Laney> 'status unity' and 'status gnome-settings-daemon' show they are both upstart managed
<tedg> I guess it's a matter of intent though, there's no dependency that g-s-d has on Unity, Unity has a dep on it.  So if we added a gnome-shell upstart job we wouldn't want to motify the g-s-d one.
<tedg> modify
<tedg> So then the gnome shell startup would be: "start on xsession SESSION=gnome and started gnome-settings-daemon"
<tedg> And the Unity one would be: "start on xsession SESSION=ubuntu and started gnome-settings-daemon"
<Laney> tedg: started doesn't work like that
<Laney> It won't cause g-s-d to be started - its start on condition still has to be fulfilled
<Laney> xnox: confirm
<tedg> Yes, it won't cause it to be started.
<Laney> so what then?
<tedg> gsd needs to be: start on started dbus and starting gnome-session
<tedg> So then it flows down: gnome-session -> g-s-d -> (unity | shell)
<xnox> tedg: in above examples from :46 & :47, gsd will have to "start on xsession"
<tedg> Why?
<tedg> xnox, g-s-d probably should... but I don't think it'll *have to* as long as every session we care about uses it.
<tedg> xnox, Which is the case today, but if, for instance, Kubuntu switched to upstart user session, we'd have to be more precise.
<xnox> tedg: if g-s-d has no "start on" whats-so-ever, and unity has "and started g-s-d", then unity will never start as nothing triggers for g-s-d to start.
<tedg> xnox, Yes, g-s-d would be: start on started dbus and starting gnome-session
<Laney> no, that wouldn't work
<xnox> tedg: that would work. as long as everyone who is "starting gnome-session" wants g-s-d, or otherwise stops g-s-d.
 * xnox goes to look at the jobs.
<Laney> it doesn't work for the unity.conf case
<Laney> which skips gnome-session entirely
<xnox> Laney: ah, that was my question from before - does or doesn't unity use gnome-session
<tedg> Laney, Well, it would wait on g-s-d which waits on gnome-session.
<Laney> and nothing starts gnome-session
<tedg> gnome-session is: start on started dbus and xsession SESSIONTYPE=gnome-session
<tedg> So dbus starting starts gnome-session.
<tedg> gnome-session starting starts g-s-d
<tedg> g-s-d having started starts unity
<tedg> unity started start unity-panel-sevice
<tedg> etc.
<Laney> isn't the goal to stop using gnome-session?
<tedg> Laney, In the Unity8 case.
<tedg> Not the Unity7 case
<tedg> But that'll be a different set of upstart jobs
<Laney> why the unity job at all then?
<tedg> To run Unity 7 in upstart.
<Laney> but it doesn't do that
<tedg> ?
<Laney> because of the pre-start
<Laney> it just quits out if you're using gnome-session ...
<tedg> Yes, but that was a work around to make it so that we could get things working.
<tedg> We'll drop it as soon as we update gnome-session to not start Compiz for the Ubuntu session.
<tedg> But that way we could start working on it, without breaking the world.
<xnox> Laney: realistically, i wouldn't expect to be able to stop using gnome-session, without also stopping to use g-s-d.
<xnox> tedg: that also means you can use .override file to override start on conditions of the g-s-d.
<tedg> Hmm, that sounds scary.
<xnox> tedg: echo "start on started dbus" | sudo tee -a /etc/xdg/upstart/gnome-settings-daemon.override
<Laney> seems wrong
<tedg> Yeah, I don't think we want that.
<xnox> tedg: you can drop .override file into any "higher-up" directory, e.g. /etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntu/upstart or /etc/xdg/upstart or ~/.conf/upstart/
<tedg> At least in the base system.
<tedg> Devs can do what they want to screw up their machines :-)
<xnox> tedg: the beauty of "/etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntu/upstart" is that it _only_ takes effect for the ubuntu session, and none of the other sessions.
<tedg> Sure, but let's get this right.
<xnox> tedg: and we remap to call "Unity" "ubuntu" session somewhere in xsessions.....
<tedg> What we want is to be able to tease the parts apart appropriately.
<xnox> =)))))))))))))))
<tedg> We don't wnat to make something like g-s-d dep on Unity, because, well, it doesn't.
<Laney> That's not what it says currently, FWIW.
<Laney> Anyway.
<Laney> I can imagine taking something like your idea but without the start unity-panel-service hack. Just leave the conditions for that job how they are and it should work, no?
<Laney> (g-session will still emit those events)
<tedg> No, I don't think so.
<tedg> We don't want the unity job emiting desktop-start and desktop-end
<tedg> They are emitted by gnome-session
<tedg> We don't want two jobs that are both expected to be running emiting the same events, else debugging will SUCK.
<tedg> Also, we want the lifecycle of unity-panel-service to be closely tied to that of Unity itself.
<tedg> Really, it doesn't exist, it's just a backing service for Unity.
<tedg> The hack is just that, a hack, it'll go away when we change gnome-session to have everyone using the upstart jobs.
<Laney> You won't have two.
<Laney> You can still keep the bit to get rid of those..
<Laney> I only added it there because I thought that gnome-session was going to go away.
<tedg> We should probably change the name of this job to unity7...
<tedg> Laney, So in distro today, the gnome-settings-daemon job has a start condition on Unity, do you agree that should go away?
<Laney> So, add your starting conditions (doesn't matter if g-s-d gets uploaded right now or not since it's an 'or' condition). Get rid of the explicit start. Don't change unity-panel-service's conditions (or do it later once we're actually using the unity job). Sounds like a winning plan to me.
<Laney> It should if it's unnecessary but you need to understand that it's g-s-d inserting itself before unity starts and not a dependency.
<Laney> starting vs. started
<tedg> Unfortunately the g-s-d "or" is causing a circular loop in Upstart.  We can argue whether that's a bug or not, but it is :-(
<tedg> It's causing xsession-init to hang
<Laney> Doesn't do that here
<Laney> wait, I've still got pre-start commented out
<Laney> Yeah. Still fine.
<tedg> Hmm, it was happening for me Saviq and ChrisTownsend.
<Laney> I'll give you my .conf files
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/temp/ think that's all the relevant ones
<Laney> (still, have pushed g-s-d)
<tedg> Laney, So the one that's different is that you don't have the upstream version of unity.conf
<tedg> Laney, Though, the version you have is what I'm suggesting :-)
<tedg> That seems to break the deadlock
<tedg> So I guess I'm fine for doing the panel-service on desktop-start for now.
<tedg> But I think we need to change it once we drop gnome-session starting compiz.
<Laney> what I showed you is what I was suggestingn for you to have ;-)
<Laney> but yes, changing unity-panel-service over would be fine if you want to
<Laney> not now, but then
<tedg> K, I'll put it in with a comment.
<Laney> wunderbar
<tedg> Laney, Updated diff: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/unity/upstart-job/+merge/170709
<Laney> tedg: LGTM
<tedg> Laney, Can you say that on the MR?  :-)
<Laney> sure
<seb128> back
<seb128> quite some backlog on that upstart discussion!
 * seb128 decides to trust Laney on that one and skips reading
<tedg> Oh!  Clearly continental bias there!
<seb128> tedg, you are the one that tried to break our desktop and Laney stopped you from doing so, from what I can read ;-)
<tedg> heh
<Laney> we came to a noble understanding
<Laney> seb128: did your gtk build finish? :P
<seb128> Laney, yes, and my testing if correct blames gcc
<seb128> I will redo a clean build with only gcc downgraded
<seb128> something in that update it would be http://launchpadlibrarian.net/142260026/gcc-4.8_4.8.1-2ubuntu1_4.8.1-3ubuntu1.diff.gz
<seb128> or http://launchpadlibrarian.net/142742772/gcc-4.8_4.8.1-3ubuntu1_4.8.1-3ubuntu2.diff.gz (less likely)
<Laney> right then, i'll be off
<Laney> have a good weekend everyone!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
<didrocks> see you Laney :)
<Saviq> ooh, Enigmail asks whether to cipher an email before saving, interesting!
<Saviq> or maybe that's because I enabled ciphering accidentally ;)
 * didrocks waves good evening
<ChrisTownsend> tedg: Laney: Hey guys, I just caught up on the whole Unity upstart stuff.  With the latest changes in the MP along with the g-s-d upstart change noted in the MP, it works now.  My question is, is there also going to be a new g-s-d package that changes the upstart job file?
<tedg> ChrisTownsend, In the final version you shouldn't need it, but yes.
<tedg> ChrisTownsend, So you should be twice as happy :-)
<ChrisTownsend> tedg: Ok, sounds good.  As long as it all works out in the end, I'm satisified:)  I'll approve the MP from the Unity team's perspective.
<tedg> Great, thanks ChrisTownsend!
<ChrisTownsend> tedg: No problem!
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner_, hi
<cjwatson> Hmm.  I want to order pizza, but my desktop won't start since today's upgrade.  This makes me sad. :-(
<cjwatson> 'initctl emit xsession SESSION=ubuntu SESSIONTYPE=gnome-session' is just sitting there, which seems odd
<jbicha> you're missing an upstart job for pizza?
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5787736/ - anything obviously missing here?
<cjwatson> Fair bit of whining in .cache/upstart/unity-panel-service.log about being unable to talk to dbus in various ways, but it seems to have a DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS env var
<cjwatson> and strace indicates at least some successful communication with dbus
<cjwatson> Hm, I can start terminals, I just have no panel or launcher or indicators
<ChrisTownsend> cjwatson: The upstart jobs for unity & unity-panel-service are messed up.  Here is the MP to fix it: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/unity/upstart-job/+merge/170709
<ChrisTownsend> cjwatson: Also, notice this for the g-s-d job: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/unity/upstart-job/+merge/170709/comments/380574
<ChrisTownsend> I modified the unity.conf, unity-panel-service.conf, and g-s-d.conf by hand to get it working on my machine.
<kenvandine> cyphermox, hey, did you have some build failures related to linking and pthread?
<cjwatson> ChrisTownsend: Thanks.  I'm afraid that doesn't seem to be enough here.
<ChrisTownsend> cjwatson: Hmm, that's not good:-(  So the xsession emit is still blocking for you?
<cjwatson> No, that much has been fixed
<cjwatson> unity7 is stop/waiting; compiz and unity-panel-service are running; still no visible launcher/panel/indicators
<cjwatson> Removing "compiz;" from /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session results in unity7 being start/running but all other symptoms still the same
<ChrisTownsend> cjwatson: Hmm, well, not sure off hand what that could be.  What happens if you type setsid unity in the terminal?
<cjwatson> Everything flickers, the terminal moves down a row as if making way for a panel above it, I get a load of "compiz (core)" debug output
<cjwatson> Still no furniture
<cjwatson> Are you testing with "compiz;" still in ubuntu.session (which I understand to be the legacy case)?
<ChrisTownsend> Sounds like a compiz plugin (perhaps opengl or unityshell) is not loading.
<ChrisTownsend> No I don't have that.
<cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5787840/ is the debug spew
 * ChrisTownsend Looks
<cjwatson> I have used ccsm for various things in the past but I certainly never turned off unityshell
<ChrisTownsend> Looks like unityshell somehow got turned off.
<bschaefer> cjwatson, sometimes it turns it self off when it can't load it self :(
<cjwatson> that said it appears to show as disabled in ccsm now
<cjwatson> couple of keybinding compatibility complaints
<ChrisTownsend> Hopefully enabling it will get it working.
<cjwatson> ... and there we go, it's back
<ChrisTownsend> Yea!
<cjwatson> Thanks for the help
<ChrisTownsend> cjwatson: My pleasure!
<cjwatson> dinnertime at last
<Sweetshark> the build "starts in X minutes" message on launchpad has a severe case of https://xkcd.com/612/
<kenvandine> annoying... this is what's breaking the libsignon-glib builds
<kenvandine> http://sourceforge.net/p/check/bugs/89/
<Saviq> larsu, look what I found... http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/libusermetrics/trunk/view/head:/src/libusermetricsoutput/qvariantlistmodel.cpp
<Saviq> this should really be submitted upstream
<larsu> Saviq: neat! Thanks
<larsu> Saviq: hm, can we use that in projects that require CLA?
<Saviq> larsu, as long as it's licensed correctly, I think so (obviously if we'd like to re-license, we'd need to get rid of that, or obtain a license from digia)
<Saviq> larsu, it's not really a copy, but a copy + s/StringList/VariantList/, more or less
<Saviq> larsu, but we should definitely submit it upstream, or find out why it isn't there yet
<larsu> Saviq: right, that seems to be the correct way to go
<Saviq> larsu, but then, IANAL, soâ¦
<larsu> Saviq: me neither, but including a file with a non-canonical copyright in a project that is supposed to be (c) Canonical seems weird to me ...
<Saviq> larsu, it's fine, the project is GPL, the file is GPL, so as long as the project is GPL, it's ok
 * Saviq wanted to find a funny tweet about IANAL... note to self... don't ever google for "IANAL" again...
<larsu> Saviq: LOL
<Saviq> another thing to add to the list "you can't un-google..."
<Saviq> and now my google history is... stained, for lack of a better word... forever
<Laney> Trevinho: hey
<Laney> oh, that was #-release
<Laney> anyway, what's up?
<Laney> is the upstart situation alright? I have a couple of minutes now.
<Laney> Let me upload g-s-d if you are blocking on that.
<Laney> (test building)
<Laney> done
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-22
<sabdfl> nd?
<sabdfl> ww
<sabdfl> but while i'm here, how are you all?
 * larsu wonders why gsettings-qt tests fail in dpkg-buildpackage but not when running `make check` directly
<larsu> QXcbConnection: Could not connect to display
<larsu> (it depends on X only because libqt5quicktest5 does)
<Guest55222> hello
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-16
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> morning!
<pitti> hey larsu
<larsu> hi pitti! Wie war dein Wochenende?
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<pitti> larsu: quite nice, thanks! I did some gardening, had a nice biking round, and (less nice) spent my Sunday evening with plumbing (congested pipes in the kitchen)
<pitti> larsu: und Deins?
<larsu> bonjour didrocks!!
<didrocks> pitti: congested pipes, doesn't sound fun :/
<larsu> pitti: uh oh, hope the kitchen is usable again ;) My girlfriend's mom was in town. Had some nice walks in Berlin's parks, some (slight) sightseeing and some theatre
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<darkxst> hey seb128
<mvo> hey seb128
<darkxst> seb128, would you be open to backporting 3.12 power plugin/panel for u-s-d/u-c-c?
<darkxst> (for upower transition)
<Laney> morning
<seb128> hey darkxst mvo Laney
<seb128> darkxst, did you get that upower transition approved by the r-t?
<larsu> hi $PEOPLE_SEB128_JUST_MENTIONED
<Laney> good weekends?
<seb128> somebody on #debian-gnome mentioned some days ago that trunk had another ABI change
<seb128> we don't want to have to do 2 transitions if that's the case
<seb128> we should wait for the ABI to stabilize
<seb128> the Debian guys were mentioning maybe reverting the GNOME changes to use the old upower for the coming Debian stable
<darkxst> seb128, since when do need r-t approval this early in the cycle?
<seb128> that sort of transition impact on all flavors
<ochosi> morning everyone! i'm sorry if this isn't the right channel, but i'm a bit lost with this. i found a (few) bugs in xdg-screensaver - any idea who i could talk to?
<darkxst> seb128, g-s-d is a complete mess, they did major refactoring of the power plugin, which is all mixed up with the api changes
<seb128> including touch
<seb128> ochosi, we don't have anyone looking at xdg-utils bugs afaik, I'm happy to sponsor patches though
<ochosi> seb128: ok, thanks, that's good to know!
<didrocks> hey Laney, darkxst, ochosi
<darkxst> hey didrocks
<didrocks> and mvo :)
<mvo> hey didrocks!
<ochosi> seb128: first of all, it carries a useless patch that only duplicates things. that one should simply be dropped from my pov: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xdg-utils/trusty/view/head:/debian/patches/xserver-blanking.diff
<darkxst> seb128, the api changes are by themselves not that bad, g-s-d is a mess due to the included re-factoring
<darkxst> most other components only have fairly simple patches
<seb128> darkxst, looking at Debian that transition doesn't seem to be that easy
<seb128> but anyway, it seems you guys are doing good job on it, I see you listed components, patches, etc
<seb128> so it should be fine
<seb128> but it impacts on several flavors, so it would be worth communicating about it on ubuntu-devel@
<Laney> did you check the d-bus api?
<darkxst> Laney, as best I can while codesearch is broken
<Laney> mmm
<pitti> hey Laney
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> I'd have merged a system-settings branch for you btw ;-)
<seb128> pitti, salut! Ã§a va bien ?
<Laney> hwo's it going?
<pitti> seb128: fÃ©licitations pour le match de football gagnÃ© hier :)
<pitti> seb128: oui, merci
<pitti> Laney: heh, I grabbed another guinea pig for the time being :)
<darkxst> Laney, database still seems to be incomplete
<Laney> I never fixed it :(
<darkxst> obviously!
<seb128> pitti, merci ! bonne chance pour le match ce soir
 * darkxst wonders what is going on in debian land if they thing gjs transition is harder than upower!
<Laney> speaking of transitions
 * Laney has prepared evo 3.12
<Laney> (H)
<Laney> darkxst: sorry, I'll look at it soon hopefully
<Laney> the code is written in go which I don't know so it's not a very appealing task
<seb128> Laney, saw bug #1330033 ?
<ubot5> bug 1330033 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "invalid token @CARBON_LIBS@ in glib-2.0.pc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330033
<Laney> nein
<ochosi> seb128: i hope you're ok with me setting you as a reviewer for my xdg-utils MR
<Laney> looks new in 2.41
<seb128> ochosi, that's fine yes, seems like you targeted the wrong Vcs though (lp:xdg-utils)
<seb128> ochosi, is that change upstream btw?
<pitti> seb128: merci :)
<ochosi> seb128: it's not yet, but i will propose it there too. thing is, this is already affecting us in trusty, so it'd be nice to get it into ubuntu asap (and we're already carrying a - partly useless - delta with upstream)
<ochosi> seb128: thing is, xdg-utils isn't even *that actively* maintained upstream...
<seb128> ochosi, yeah, it's fine to not have changes in upstream vcs first, but we like to have a bug report reference at least, so we ensure it's reported there/might get included later
<seb128> ochosi, if we don't do that, things often don't get upstreamed later and we create a delta and extra work for us
<ochosi> seb128: ok, will look into doing that right now, shall i add a link in a comment to the MR?
<seb128> ochosi, that would be nice, thanks
<seb128> or ideally add it to the patch header, but I can do that for you when I upload
<seb128> pitti, one problem with the "upload and commit to trunk" is that your might create issues for things already built and being tested in a silo
<pitti> seb128: ah, right
<seb128> like they are going to hit the issue that the revision is missing when they try to publish
<pitti> meh, not having trunk is really maddening
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'll just continue with dialer-app then and let the project maintainers do that update themselves
<pitti> it wasn't for lack of trying on my side, at least :)
<Laney> they'll just have to merge and rebuild
<Laney> but yes :/
<seb128> pitti, you can easily check is a component is a silo using the CI bot with "where <source>"
<seb128> is in a silo*
<seb128> pitti, btw should we start include those changes or should we wait?
<seb128> like for settings we can get that in the next landing
<pitti> seb128: it's fine to include them, as long as you don't mind having translations dropped for a few days
<seb128> k
<pitti> seb128: btw, I uploaded a fixed usb-creator for bug 1294877 (the thing you poked me about last week); but it's still not working well, I also sometimes get a failure about "failed to install boot loader"
<ubot5> bug 1294877 in OEM Priority Project "usb-creator fails to wipe usb device when the device has ext4 partition" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294877
<pitti> usb-creator is in a rather sorry state :/
<seb128> pitti, yeah, xnox needs to look at it
<seb128> pitti, thanks for looking at it!
<ochosi> seb128: done. added as a comment as i wasn't sure how/where to do that with the patch header
<ochosi> seb128: i'll be looking at what you do with it though and try to learn from it
<seb128> ochosi, ok, I just usually add some comment lines on top of the .patch
<seb128> like
<seb128> # Description: support xfce better
<ochosi> ah
<seb128> # Upstream: <url<
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> there's also that patch that could be dropped, i presume you need a MR for that too?
<ochosi> s/could/should/
<seb128> ochosi, which one? no need, I can have a look
<ochosi> this one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xdg-utils/utopic/view/head:/debian/patches/xserver-blanking.diff
<ochosi> it just duplicates code
<ochosi> this is the bugreport for it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bug/1330386
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1330386 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "The xserver-blanking patch in Ubuntu duplicates code" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> you mean it was included upstream and not dropped from our patch serie?
<ochosi> that'
<ochosi> s the only explanation i could find
<seb128> ok, thanks
<ochosi> otherwise it makes no sense
<seb128> let me look
<ochosi> (fwiw, i've also removed that patch locally and tested things without it. as it's all bash-scripts it's fairly easy to test)
<seb128> ochosi, yeah, http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xdg/xdg-utils/commit/scripts/xdg-screensaver.in?id=c9551d250722081cbf7d6611f417bc597765e5c9
<ochosi> righty
<ochosi> there you go
<ochosi> sry, i guess i could've dug that up myself when doing the bugreport...
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> thanks for pointing it out ;-)
<ochosi> np ;)
<pitti> seb128: bug 1296275> argh, I'm a moron
<ubot5> bug 1296275 in gvfs (Ubuntu Utopic) "PTP Cameras not working on 14.04, works flawlessly on 12.04" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296275
<seb128> pitti, did you include the wrong change?
<pitti> ACTION="add"
<pitti> that wanted to be ==
<pitti> and actually, it's redundant
<ochosi> seb128: one more question though, if i introduce a new feature to xdg-screensaver (i.e. restoring the correct value of xset), could we handle this the same way? (MR assigned to you, upstream bugreport+patch)
<ochosi> (actually could be configured bugfix)
<seb128> ochosi, yes
<ochosi> s/configured/considered/
<ochosi> weird mistype...
<ochosi> seb128: ok thanks a bunch! i guess we need to file for SRU to get this into trusty?
<seb128> ochosi, yes, you can use the existing bugs, you just need impact/test case/regression potential info on those
<ochosi> seb128: ok, will look into that later today or whenever the changes have been pushed. thanks again!
<seb128> ochosi, yw!
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: FWIW https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-staging-main has 4.2.5~rc2 -- I havent smoketested it to install clean though ...
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: looking good, copied
<seb128> grrr
<seb128> why is the ubuntu desktop next iso still stopping on the lightdm screen asking for an username
<seb128> the lightdm log states it's try to log user "(null)"!
 * seb128 debugs
<Laney> :(
<ogra_> probably uses "phablet" anywhere hardcoded ?
<seb128> ogra_, no, we are using unity-greeter like desktop
<ogra_> seb128, well, that wouldnt help if the session wrapper has the homedir/user hardcoded
<seb128> ogra_, well, the log has user "(null)" that seems wrong in any case
<darkxst> seb128, can you guys fork gnome-desktop ;)
<seb128> darkxst, no
<ogra_> true
<darkxst> seb128, yes, its much easier than the alternatives!
<seb128> darkxst, did Laney said, earlier in the cycle, that he was wanting to help you land this one?
<darkxst> seb128, no laney hasn't mentioned that to me
<seb128> lying
<darkxst> whos lying?
<seb128> you
<seb128> darkxst, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/04/28/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t11:23
<seb128> you were part of that discussion
<seb128> that was a reply to you
<seb128> it's good that we have logs ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, yes, even bet that you can just dig them up that quick ;)
<darkxst> ^better
<seb128> lol
<seb128> well, I just had to grep for gnome-desktop mentions in that channel and grep for Laney on the results
<darkxst> but still, I think it probably easier to fork it, libunity-desktop
<darkxst> only for u-s-d and u-c-c
<darkxst> everything else likes the apps, that shouldn;t even be using it... can continue on using the real library
<seb128> what happens then e.g eog or cheese or nautilus or ...
<seb128> +to
<darkxst> seb128, they will be linked to one or the other
<darkxst> doesnt matter too much which
<seb128> well, those libraries are going to have common symbols?
<seb128> is that likely to create conflicts?
<darkxst> seb128, only if someone trys to link against both, (which is a really bad idea anyway)
<seb128> right, seems there is no libs in the rdepends list
<seb128> Laney, do you have an opinion on that?
<darkxst> I think mostly the apps are using the thumbnailers, which upstream agreed could probably be moved into gtk, however I havent had time to chase that one up
<Laney> what's the problem with doing the normal update?
<darkxst> its also likely that some apps, nautilus maybe, are using deprecated modules
<darkxst> Laney, all XRANR stuff was moved into mutter
<darkxst> in fact anything X related was moved out
<darkxst> I did rip out the code from mutter and make a standalone daemon, last cycle and that would still work
<darkxst> but... things are just going to keep diverging
<Laney> what uses the X stuff on our side?
<Laney> I think splitting it out is okay
<darkxst> Laney, the X stuff is pretty limited to u-s-d/u-c-c
<darkxst> the apps just use stuff, that was never really intended to be in gnome-desktop
<darkxst> but is there
<Laney> would be happy to try the split first
<Laney> if it's removed then it won't be changing
<seb128> like copy that code in u-s-d/u-c-c?
<Laney> darkxst already made a daemon for it
<Laney> not sure what source it lives in
<seb128> new source
<Laney> seems okay
<Laney> or a binary in one of those
<Laney> doesn't matter to me
<seb128> well, it's new code/js
 * darkxst ripped the code from mutter and put in a daemon
<seb128> I'm not even sure we want gjs on our iso
<Laney> not a fork of the old stuff?
<darkxst> seb128, no gjs involved
<seb128> darkxst, oh, that part is only C?
<darkxst> seb128, yes
<seb128> Laney, no, a fork of the new gnome-shell code
<seb128> with talking over dbus
 * Laney nod
<seb128> it has potential for bugs
<seb128> but I guess we can try it out
<seb128> and if doesn't work, look at doing a plan B by copying some old gnome-desktop code
<darkxst> https://github.com/darkxst/displayconfig
<darkxst> seb128, its all dbus
<darkxst> and nothing to do with gnome-shell
<darkxst> its all in mutter
<Laney> okay so what I said last time still stands, ping me when you have stuff for sponsoring
<seb128> those are the same thing to me
<seb128> but noted ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, for one there is no JS/gjs in mutter!
<seb128> ls
<seb128> ups
<darkxst> but my concern, is this will continue to block us every cycle....
<darkxst> I mean I can just go an rebase everything on 3.12 which it probably not to bad, but who knows what will happen in 3.14 and beyond
<davmor2> seb128: No File or Directory ups located
<Laney> if it becomes too horrible then forking will still be an option
<seb128> davmor2, lol
<seb128> well, it doesn't seem like we need to block, we can use that standalone service
<seb128> or copy the old functions in u-s-d
<Laney> yep
<darkxst> there are probably a dozen patches each for u-s-d and u-c-c
<seb128> hum, how much code are we talking about there? like how many functions are being dropped from gnome-desktop in the update?
<seb128> I think my preferred solution would be to copy those functions/rename then if needed in u-s-d/u-c-c
<seb128> it's a safer option than stacking changes and adding a new dbus service
<darkxst> u-s-d/u-c-c patches just change from using gnome-desktop to dbus
<darkxst> the code that moved was *all* the display config code
<seb128> well, it might still be easy to copy ;-)
<seb128> like just copy a bunch of .c/.h files in u-s-d source
<darkxst> seb128, I doubt it would be that easy!
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> so back to square 1
<darkxst> right, make libunity-desktop
<darkxst> but only used by u-s-d/u-c-c
<darkxst> I think that is the easiest option, avoiding the dbus daemon
<Laney> but it only needs the X functions
<darkxst> I suppose you could split out the X stuff into a new library
<darkxst> but for example only 90% of xrandr plugin was moved into mutter (atleast for 3.10)
<darkxst> or another option would be to rebase the u-s-d/u-c-c code off 3.12 for certain plugins/modules?
<darkxst> but you would still need the daemon
<seb128> we don't want the new display UI
<darkxst> seb128, yes I have heard mpt doesnt like the egglistboxes
<mpt> Whatâs an egglistbox?
<seb128> well, it's also that our display panel is quite different from the upstream one
<seb128> we have controls for the high dpi stuff there, and for the launcher and screen barrier
<seb128> mpt, those sort of panels, http://afaikblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/privacy.png
<darkxst> seb128, that is a forked panel? anyway updating won't affect that
<seb128> darkxst, it's the "display" one with a stack of patches
<mpt> oh, ha, yes
<darkxst> seb128, nope its a forked panel
<seb128> ?
<darkxst> seb128, its called "Appearance" or something
<seb128> well, a stack of patches can be called a fork, if that's what are you discussing
<seb128> no, that's the background panel
<seb128> display is the xrandr one
<seb128> background/appearance is the wallpaper
<darkxst> hmm so maybe its just a stack of XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP patches then, but I don't think so?
<seb128> it is
<seb128> http://i.stack.imgur.com/TULXr.png
<mpt> The Launcher options could/should be moved to âAppearanceâ [sic] > âBehaviorâ if that would make syncing easier
<seb128> well, that image is an earlier version, so the UI is not really nice, we did some tweaks since
<darkxst> seb128, oh that looks ancient!
<seb128> darkxst, that's what we current have...
<seb128> (well, expect we fixed the alignments issues and some glitches)
<seb128> except*
<darkxst> seb128, https://www.dropbox.com/s/6r6jzssyjdnqd5y/Screenshot%20from%202014-06-16%2022%3A12%3A00.png
<darkxst> and I know you will dislike that :)
<seb128> darkxst, indeed, but that's not even the point, it's just that the UI is so different that we can't really "rebase our code on 3.12"
<seb128> well, assuming we don't want the new UI and we don't want it
<darkxst> right, so fork gnome-desktop into libunity-desktop
<seb128> hum, I'm pondering doing a summary email to the desktop list, listing options
<seb128> well, we have 3 options
<seb128> 1- create a new package with the old lib codebase, to use in u-s-d/u-c-c
<seb128> 2- copy the files/functions we need in those sources
<seb128> 3- try the new dbus service and patch u-s-d/u-c-c to use it
<seb128> the option-3 is the most likely to create work for us
<seb128> 1 and 2 are basically no runtime change, we just need to see if the copy is easy or to decide to keep a full copy of the source only for that
<darkxst> seb128, option 3 is mostly done, but will need rebasing, and probably create some amount of bugs
<seb128> right, it's the same amount of bugs which is the issue
<darkxst> I'm not convinced to 2 would be that easy...
<seb128> why? it's basically a variant of 1
<seb128> either those functions are mostly standalone or not
<seb128> if they are not, it's going to be an issue for 1 as well
<darkxst> seb128, have you look at the code? it involves lots of minor api changes in gnome-desktop
<seb128> ?
<darkxst> seb128, so x-code got moved into mutter
<darkxst> gnome-desktop has adjustment to re-direct to mutter dbus
<seb128> we would copy gnome-desktop-xrandr.c/h (inventing a filename for example) from gnome-desktop 3.8 to u-s-d and include the local .h/build with that .c as part of u-s-d and have that code in u-s-d
<seb128> so it's like we would static build g-d 3.8 in u-s-d
<seb128> rather than having a shared lib
<seb128> why wouldn't that work?
<seb128> that code should call xrandr and be fine
<seb128> no?
<darkxst> seb128, oh, you mean copy my daemon code into u-s-d?
<seb128> no
<darkxst> or you want to try and disect the mess of changes that led to that?
<seb128> copy gnome-desktop 3.8's code in there, so rather than using a shared libunity, have those functions be part of u-s-d
<seb128> they would be built in xrandr.so
<seb128> rather than being in a lib that is loaded at runtime
<seb128> it's basically the "create a fork for gnome-desktop 3.8", just not making it a share library
<seb128> shared
<darkxst> seb128, its really not as simple as just copying a bit of code
<darkxst> so there are really two options
<seb128> why not?
<darkxst> 1- fork gnome-desktop
<darkxst> 2- keep gnome-desktop but create a  dummy dbus interface that works with the current gnome-desktop
<darkxst> seb128, because they changed the api
<seb128> well, that's not relevant
<seb128> u-s-d uses the old 3.8 api, so if we copy those function in the u-s-d xrand plugin we could stop using libgnome-desktop there
<seb128> just use the local copied code
<seb128> no?
<darkxst> well sure, if you copy the entire 3.8 gnome-desktop api
<darkxst> in which case you have basically forked it anyway
<darkxst> and it probably doesnt matter too much where it lives
<seb128> well, gnome-desktop has stuff like keyboard layout handling, why would we need to copy those?
<seb128> that and forked is fine, the issue is "shipping the fork as a shared library"
<seb128> which means we might get people starting using that library, since it's shared and available on the install
<darkxst> well it only needs to be shared between u-s-d and u-c-c
<seb128> I'm going to have a look at how much code that is to copy around, to see if the option is a valid one
<seb128> but yeah, otherwise the rename and ship the old version would work
<darkxst> seb128, so basically its 90% of xrandr plugin, but also other things like (mainly) idle monitor
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, great! thanks
<darkxst> seb128, and believe me when I say that number of bug fixes you guys are missing out on just over a UI is pretty insane
<seb128> darkxst, it's always "I can't believe you guys are using so buggy software", yet users are still happy to run 10 year old windows versions or whatever
<seb128> we get almost no complain about the current xrandr case
<seb128> works perfectly for what I have to do
<seb128> so I'm sure the new code fix a ton of issues, but none I care about for my personal use...
<seb128> (we don't get lot of bug reports either on that topic)
<darkxst> oh seb128, yes I know you only start caring when in ranks highly on e.u.c ;)
<seb128> not true
<seb128> when it's popular in launchpad or when it's coming back from e.g oem teams as well
<seb128> or when it's pointed in reviews or user forums
<seb128> xrandr is in none of those categories though
<darkxst> seb128, most users don't even know what xrandr is
<darkxst> and I was talking more in general over the whole g-s-d
<darkxst> not just xrandr bugs
<seb128> yeah, we want to update things like wacom
<darkxst> power?
<seb128> g-s-d is more like candidate for updates
<seb128> the issue is g-c-c and the new UIs
<seb128> yeah, power could be one
<tjaalton> Laney: filed bug 1330468, does it look ok and was this enough?
<ubot5> bug 1330468 in libinput (Ubuntu) "MIR: libinput" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330468
<darkxst> seb128, but yeh, upstream basically consider gnome-desktop/g-s-d/g-c-c a set, no guarantee of api stability there
<darkxst> maybe even an exclusive set
<seb128> yeah, it makes trickier our job dealing with u-s-d/u-c-c
<seb128> but that's our issue, not yours
<darkxst> seb128, well it becomes ours as well... once we are blocked waiting...
<darkxst> I would like to land the upower transition once its ready, and then move straight onto gnome-desktop 3.12
<Laney> tjaalton: I think so, we'll see when didrocks and co look at it though ;-)
<tjaalton> yeah
<Laney> thanks for filing
<didrocks> I'll have a look before EOW, is that fine?
<Laney> no huge rush right now, thanks
<darkxst> anyway night all, I should probably sleep now ;)
<didrocks> see you darkxst
<seb128> Laney, in fact current desktop-next does work/autologin, the issue I had earlier were likely because Mir doesn't run in VMs yet (I knew the session wouldn't work but I though I would see it trying to log in at least/having logs in the userdir)
<seb128> works on real hardware
<Laney> oh really!
<Laney> I found a USB stick on the back of a shelf
<Laney> so I'll see if it works on my hardware
<Laney> don't know if we have mir/nvidia
<ogra_> nouveau should work afaik
<seb128> pitti, ^ btw
<seb128> pitti, ubuntu-desktop-next works now (on real hardware, not on VMs)
<pitti> seb128: yay! re-downloading :)
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<ogra_> screw VMs ... they are for clouds !
<pitti> seb128: I want them to run in an otto container :)
<pitti> (actually half-serious, if we want to test them automatically)
<pitti> didrocks, jibel: is otto still running in production, OOI?
<seb128> pitti, having automated testing would be great
<Laney> seb128: will you test the installer?
<seb128> Laney, yes, about to do that
<Laney> ooh, looks like cyphermox fixed the modemmanager stuff
<Laney> maybe we can turn recommends back on then
<cyphermox> Laney: yeah, I did, sorry
<seb128> Laney, do you think we should seed the desktop wallpapers on that iso?
<seb128> Laney, is that a recommends? ;-)
<Laney> for the greeter?
<Laney> :( :( :(
<seb128> yes, greeter being one
<Laney> ): ): ):
<seb128> I was also looking for images to browse in gallery
<Laney> if you want
<seb128> let's maybe try to turn recommends on
<ogra_> uuh
<seb128> then have a review of what is there and shouldn't be/what is missing, and update the seeds
<seb128> ogra_, ?
<ogra_> seb128, just make sure ot only do it in the desktop seed ... and i guess your image will grow twice as big :)
<seb128> ogra_, yeah, only desktop, and let's see, it shouldn't (desktop is not twice the touch image)
<ogra_> no, but touch includes a lot non-yet-desktop packages that have recommends
<seb128> well, we can do a build with them and see where we are
<ogra_> yeah, sure
<Laney> if they aren't wanted then they shouldn't be recommends
<Laney> if they are then we want them
<seb128> that image is not a production one anyway, it's made to see where we stand and deal with those issues
<ogra_> well, i could say the same abouut touch :)
<seb128> right, touch should use recommends
<Laney> yes you could
<seb128> but let's not discuss that today :p
<ogra_> but cleaning up the recommends there will cause a big delta in the end
<seb128> it's not going to lead anywhere useful
<Laney> ubuntu-artwork is explicitly seeded in desktop
<ogra_> well, i would like us to get away from the no-recommends setting at some point
<Laney> i think we'd need to add that to touch/destkop too
<ogra_> even on touch
<ogra_> but i expect that to take a full cycle to clean up all the bits and pieces ... surely nothing to do this round
<Laney> man look at my cool diagram in bzr log ubuntu-touch.utopic r193
<Laney> seb128: okay, added ubuntu-artwork
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> Laney, install works fine and gives a working session
<Laney> erm
<Laney> wow
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> we totally could have demoed this :P
<Laney> if that fix got in when it was first propsoed
<ogra_> i think xnox ran it all the time in mla
<ogra_> *malta
<pitti> w00t
<pitti> great work, guys!
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<seb128> ogra_, we were running the unity8 session as well, we even demoed it installing clicks and running gedit...
<seb128> ogra_, we are speaking about the live image there
<ogra_> ah
<didrocks> pitti: sorry, was on a call. I'm not 100% sure, but I heared still the CI team talking about the otto machines for Touch recently (like a month or so ago). fginther would know more I guess
<seb128> pitti, do you need NEW review for those touch langpack sources?
<pitti> seb128: sorry, no, will accept them wholesale
<seb128> pitti, k; thanks ;-)
<seb128> bregma, do you know if indicator-network not being available under unity8-desktop session is an known issue?
<bregma> seb128, I am not aware of any such issue
<seb128> bregma, is it listed for you?
<seb128> it's not here and the settings wifi panel is empty
<Laney> seb128: is it running?
<Laney> upstart-wise
<bregma> let me update my test systems
<seb128> Laney, I guess I need to dbus environment from the session?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> or UPSTART_SESSION or whatever it is
<seb128> status indicator-network states "unknown job"
<seb128> the process it's not running
<Laney> get the environ from unity8 or something
<seb128> but .cache/upstart/indicator-network.log has an entry "stop/pre-start, process nnnn"
<Laney> yes
<Laney> I think it's the pre-start script stopping the job
<Laney> see /usr/share/upstart/sessions/indicator-network.conf
<Laney> probably needs to list unity8-x11 and unity8-mir there
<seb128> it's "stop/waiting"
<Laney> hack the script then 'start indicator-network' and see if it works
 * Laney checks e-d-s one last time
<seb128> Laney, bregma: right, the job needs tweaking to start on unity8 sessions out of touch
 * Laney nods
<bregma> seb128, thinking back, I noticed it gone in Malta, so it's been broken for a while
<Laney> this was added before trusty to prevent double indicators
<bregma> I think it happened after the tweak to make two indicators not show up in the 14.04 unity 7 desktop
<seb128> bregma, well, I guess since before trusty when we "fixed" it to not start in !touch so we wouldn't get it under unity7 sessions
<seb128> lol
<bregma> the fix worked
<seb128> bregma, do you want to mp that?
<bregma> seb128, yes please
<Laney> haha
<pitti> ok, c'est l'heure de football, Ã  demain !
<didrocks> pitti: I think I need to socially answer "enjoy" even if I don't know how you can enjoy that :)
<pitti> didrocks: yes, it's indeed a social exercise -- we'll go to the beer garden :)
<pitti> (we don't have a TV)
<didrocks> pitti: I can do with the beer part, less with the football one though ;)
<pitti> didrocks: if France loses its next game, it's due to you! :-P
<didrocks> pitti: at least, they will stop talking abou
<didrocks> about a stupid game :)
<didrocks> (here)
<didrocks> oh, it's not Friday yet? Ok I'll keep some for that day :p
<seb128> pitti, bon chance pour le match!
<Laney> go go gadget e-d-s
<seb128> have a nice evening everyone!
<chrisccoulson> qengho, are you back this week?
<ari-tczew> hello
<ari-tczew> can someone update a branch of sane-backends? I've proposed a merge for https://code.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/sane-backends/ubuntu/+merge/220881
<robert_ancell> tea time!
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-17
<robert_ancell> desrt, still around?
<pitti> Laney: I tried yesterday's desktop-next image which seb128 promised me to work, and it still doesn't -- still the same "no autologin" bug
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> hello larsu ^5s
<didrocks> hey larsu ;)
<larsu> didrocks: bonjour!
 * larsu is sitting in the sun \o/
<robert_ancell> larsu, nice!
<larsu> hi robert_ancell!
 * didrocks relocates in the balcony, like yesterday :)
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, is unity8 session broken in utopic? It's crashing on login for me (left with blank screen)
<robert_ancell> (and are you and Andrea maintaining this in this timezone?)
<Laney> hey
<Laney> pitti: grump, well I'll look today
<didrocks> morning Laney
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<pitti> seb128: so, false promises!
 * pitti hugs seb128
<didrocks> promise was that we won't hear about football ever ever again? :)
<pitti> didrocks: RESOLVED/WONTFIX
<pitti> didrocks: actually, that yesterday's ubuntu-next image would actually boot :_
<pitti> :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, some people will almost set that to INVALID anyway :)
<didrocks> ahah
<didrocks> or rather "OPINION" :)
<pitti> didrocks: or in LP terms, "Opinion" :)
<didrocks> :p
 * pitti te donne une accolade
<pitti> didrocks: tu dois attendre avec juli 17 et pas parler avec des autres gens :)
 * didrocks donne une accolade en retour
<didrocks> pitti: exactement, on va s'enfermer dans une cave !
<pitti> ah ah
<pitti> ^ note that I used the French chuckling :)
<didrocks> \o/
<pitti> didrocks: est-ce que julie aime le football ?
<didrocks> pitti: non plus, donc elle est plutÃ´t ravie que je n'aime pas :)
 * pitti invokes google translate for that
<seb128> pitti, right, saw that, I was just reading his summary email
<Laney> can't switch to a vt
<Laney> BAH!
<seb128> Laney, I think the user metrics thing has a bug since the revert
<Laney> time isn't updating
<seb128> switch to vt wfm
<seb128> k
<Laney> I think it's probably crashed
<seb128> so maybe it's blocked
<seb128> pitti, what's your issue with the iso?
<pitti> seb128: still the same -- it boots to lightdm, then I don't know which user/password to log in as
<seb128> pitti, is that on real hardware?
<seb128> oh, a robert_ancell
<pitti> seb128: yes, on my X230
<seb128> pitti, :-(
<pitti> seb128: same machine I tried it on on Malta
<seb128> pitti, can you share /var/log/lightdm?
<seb128> pitti, what issue did you download? yesterday's one?
<pitti> seb128: hang on (sitting in a train)
<pitti> seb128: yes, yesterday's
<seb128> pitti, ubuntu-desktop-next/ubuntu is login/password
<pitti> seb128: I can put the image on an USB stick (didn't bring the one from yesterday) and boot it
<Laney> gives me a unity8 lock screen
<pitti> ah, thanks
<Laney> I do not know why this would only work for some people
<seb128> pitti, but if autologin fails it's likely Mir being unhappy so it's not going to help you
<Laney> although the syslinux screen thing doesn't show up
<seb128> right, that's an issue since syslinux 6 landed
<Laney> but if I boot it in uefi mode I get to choose install/boot anyway
<seb128> Colin said he would have a look
<pitti> seb128: ah, you  figure it has tried to start the session, but failed?
<seb128> if you hit enter on the empty screen it boots
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> seb128: on Malta this apparently was a real issue, that Laney fixed, wasn't it?
<seb128> pitti, that's what I was having under virtualbox first, before I tried on real hardware
<Laney> autologin wouldn't work before
<seb128> pitti, right, it was not autologin in until yesterday
<seb128> but that is fixed
<Laney> but I think it does the same thing if the actual login fails
<Laney> i.e. takes you back to lightdm
<seb128> the thing is that failed session start gives you a similar experience
<seb128> it bounces you back to the greeter
<seb128> Laney, ;-)
<Laney> could probably show a message in this case though
<Laney> failed autologin
<seb128> Laney, is that on your nvidia box?
<Laney> the crash?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> k, maybe Mir doesn't like nvidia or something
<robert_ancell_> Is this unity 8 session?
<seb128> Laney, well, autologin doesn't fail, technically it starts the session, session fails to start and exit ... so from a lightdm perspective it's not different from a log-in and log-out cycle
<seb128> robert_ancell_, yes
<seb128> robert_ancell_, desktop-next iso
<robert_ancell_> It's crashing for me in utopic, but the upstart never returns so lightdm thinks it's running fine
<seb128> robert_ancell_, hey btw, how are you? ;-)
<robert_ancell_> I haven't tried that iso yet
<Laney> seb128: doesn't it exit with a bad code?
<seb128> robert_ancell_, the iso from yesterday (should still be current) is working for me on the inspiron 11, I even did a successful install
<seb128> Laney, I don't think lightdm watches for exit codes and display an error when the session exit with one
<robert_ancell_> It's bugged me for a long time that lightdm doesn't really know anything about the session. I wonder if there is a better interface that just monitoring the session process for exit
<seb128> robert_ancell_, what is crashing/do you have a log/bt?
<Laney> I'm suggesting maybe it could ;-)
<robert_ancell_> seb128, good, how are you
<seb128> Laney, right
<seb128> robert_ancell_, I'm good thanks ;-)
<Laney> robert_ancell_: up late?
<pitti> ok, trying to boot it again, collecting logs
<pitti> Laney, seb128: back, I now have the entire /var/log
<pitti> Laney, seb128: so, I see text-mode plymouth (usually I have graphical dots), then immediately lightdm
<pitti> but the logs do show a failed session
<seb128> - other ideas
<pitti> to be sure, I changed the password of u-d-n to "a" and tried to log in manually, then I got a blue error "session startup failed" in lightdm greeter
<seb128> 3 would be best, but I doubt the unity team is going to work on that
<pitti> lightdm.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657351/
<pitti> x-0-greeter.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657352/
<robert_ancell> pitti, is that the correct log? It looks like a fresh boot log
<pitti> x-0.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657353/
<seb128> pitti, do you have unity-system-compositor.log ?
<pitti> robert_ancell: yes, it's fresh from booting the ubuntu-desktop-next CD
<pitti> seb128: not in /var/log/
<seb128> weird
<pitti> I do have X.org logs apparently, though :) is that for lightdm itself?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> anyway, x-0-greeter.log shows a scary number of errors
<seb128> ok, weird
<pitti> the missing backgroud is probably ok
<pitti> (nm-applet:2031): libnotify-WARNING **: Failed to connect to proxy
<pitti> that probably also survived
<seb128> for me in the VM case I had a unity-system-compositor.log with egl errors
<seb128> the missing background is because the image is not seeded on the iso
<pitti> seb128: welll, this is not VM, it's real errors
<pitti> err, real iron
<seb128> right
<robert_ancell_> grr, network disconnects
<seb128> robert_ancellhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/7657360/
<seb128> ups
<pitti> seb128, Laney: so does yesterday's ISO actually work for you?
<seb128> robert_ancell_, ^
<robert_ancell_> seb128, ta
<seb128> pitti, yes, for some definition of "work"
<pitti> I wonder if any of these "no such service" etc. are breaking it, or if it's a graphics card/Mir problem
<seb128> on my inspiron 11, it boots fine in unity8, showing the tablet lock screen, I just need to click on the "phablet" button to unlock
<seb128> installs works fine as well
<seb128> in VM I've something similar to what you describe
<pitti> oh, so x-0-greeter.log is for the greeter's own session, not from starting the user session?
<seb128> Laney has it booting to the phablet lock but hanging there
<seb128> pitti, correct
<seb128> pitti, user session would be ~/.cache/upstart
<pitti> so where does it show the attempted start of the u-d-n session?
<seb128> in the ubuntu-desktop-next userdir
<robert_ancell_> pitti, do you have x-0.log?
<seb128> robert_ancell_, <pitti> x-0.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657353/
<robert_ancell_> sorry, I see the link now
<pitti> robert_ancell_: yes, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657353/
<Laney> default-session=ubuntu
<Laney> shouldn't that be unity8-mir?
<Laney> or is this something else?
<pitti> robert_ancell_: but I thought this would also just be for the greeter itself?
<seb128> Laney, [+0.17s] DEBUG: Loaded session /usr/share/xsessions/unity8-mir.desktop (Unity8-Mir, )
<pitti> I see no trace at all for the attempted lightdm startup of the "actual" session
<Laney> seb128: yeah that means it's installed
<pitti> yes, but merely loading the .desktop file doesn't mean much
<Laney> but I'd expect it to be the default too?
<Laney> can you look at your /var/log/lightdm/?
<robert_ancell_> pitti, this is autologin?
<Laney> see if you have the same things
<seb128> oh, right
<pitti> robert_ancell_: yes; as I said, this is a clean live session boot of yesterday's utopic-desktop-next-amd64.iso
<pitti> robert_ancell_: It could be that autologin is still broken, of course; but manual login said "failed to start session"
<seb128> pitti, do you have a /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf?
<robert_ancell_> pitti, because the lightdm log indicates this is not an autologin, it has started a greeter and prompted you for something (probably the password) and not got a reponse
<pitti> seb128: yes, it did have that
<seb128> pitti, what is in there?
<seb128> pitti, dpkg -l | grep unity8-desktop-session
<pitti> seb128: I don't know any more, I didn't save it; but presumably the same you have?
<pitti> seb128: I'm afraid I can't boot back and forth multiple times now, I need my battery (this is just an IC without power plugs, no ICE :/)
<seb128> pitti, well, it looks like you don't have Laney's changes that landed this w.e
<seb128> pitti, are you sure you got the correct iso?
 * robert_ancell_ thinks I should make a lightdm --dump-config that combines all the config files into stdout for easy checking for configuration errors
<Laney> seb128: that's why I'm asking you to check that default-session in your logs
<Laney> should confirm that theory
<seb128> Laney, it's unity8-mir for me
 * Laney nod
<seb128> pitti, what's the md5 of your iso?
<pitti> seb128: oh, erk -- indeed
<Laney> because this is just what those changes were trying to fix
<pitti> I did dowlnoad the new image yesterday, but apparently it got sent to Nirvana :/
<pitti> thanks firefox
<Laney> zsync time!
<pitti> seb128, Laney: argh, sorry for the noise then; will re-download this afternoon when I'm back with bandwidth
<seb128> pitti, no worry
<seb128> robert_ancell_, in the "trying to boot that iso in a VM" case things are weird
<Laney> someone said that vmware was supposed to work
<seb128> robert_ancell_, like there is no actual session log, and you get back to the greeter, it seems like it's unity-system-compositor that fails but it's not really communicated properly anywhere in the logs
<seb128> Laney, I tried virtualbox only
<Laney> yeah, just saying
 * seb128 tries to download vmware just to see
<robert_ancell_> seb128, u-s-c is still running but the u-s-c log doesn't show anything?
<Laney> I think it was some mir guys at the sprint maybe
<robert_ancell_> I also believe vmware was working at some point
<seb128> robert_ancell_, no, u-s-c is not running
<robert_ancell_> Not sure if that's what's been released into ubuntu though, there tends to be a delay
<robert_ancell_> seb128, that's bad if lightdm hasn't detected that
<seb128> the lightdm logdir has a u-s-c.log with a mir exception
<seb128> and lightdm sits on a login prompt
<seb128> which means autologin failed to start the session, sent back to the greeter without telling anything
<seb128> the u-s-c.log has "std::exception::what: Error opening DRM device 19, "No such device""
<seb128> (that's under virtualbox)
<robert_ancell_> seb128, oh, it falls back to VT switched X by default
<robert_ancell_> But yes, we should have some mechanism for a greeter to have an error message when it starts that is set by lightdm
<robert_ancell_> So we have a better user experience under failure
<seb128> yeah, and if I enter ubuntu-desktop-next a l/p then I get the greeter "frozen"
<seb128> like the username/password entry vanish but it stays on the greeter
<seb128> I can still open/close the a11y indicator
<seb128> oh well, better handling of error cases is a wishlist
<seb128> robert_ancell_, looking to your email ... meanwhile, did you have an opinion on the gnome-desktop options?
<robert_ancell_> seb128, I think I missed the question after the list of options
<seb128> robert_ancell_, I didn't state a question I think :p
<robert_ancell_> But agreed implementing in Unity is the best by far. The service seems an acceptable option, though it just feels risky for some reason
<seb128> robert_ancell_, which one do you prefer/do you have a better idea, would be the question
<robert_ancell_> No better options that I can think of
<seb128> yeah, I don't really like the new service
<seb128> it feels like it has potential to bring bugs
<robert_ancell_> It shouldn't be particularly hard to implement in Unity 7 (for someone who is experienced in that codebase)
<seb128> yeah, but that's going to take some time even if we do it
<robert_ancell_> Do we break any other desktops by doing this update (and do we care?)
<seb128> the GNOME guys being blocked meanwhile
<robert_ancell_> We should unblock them
<seb128> the easiest option might be to upload a gnome-desktop3.8 then
<seb128> no we don't
<robert_ancell_> The other option I had was to just carry a big patch to provide the old functionality
<robert_ancell_> I don't think that's that bad
<seb128> in gnome-desktop?
<robert_ancell_> yeah
<seb128> we are going to need to rebase
<seb128> the patch might also be non trivial
<Laney> darkxst: you dropped the plugins.background enable gsettings key from g-s-d
<robert_ancell_> It will probably be big, but not very interleaved with exisitng code
<robert_ancell_> i.e. it will be mostly a separate module
<seb128> I think I would prefer to either ship gnome-desktop3.8 as a separate lib/copy the functions we need in u-s-c/u-c-c
<seb128> until we implement the dbus interface in Unity
<robert_ancell_> I feel that would be more expensive
<seb128> then we can drop that
<seb128> k
<robert_ancell_> Though I don't have a feel on how many apps use the libgnome-desktop api
<seb128> the xrandr one?
<robert_ancell_> yeah
<seb128> only g-s-d and g-c-c
<robert_ancell_> If that's the case I'd be happy to copy-paste the code into u-s-d/u-c-c and be done with it
<seb128> right, that's what I was thinking
<robert_ancell_> +1 from me then
<seb128> I'm going to have a try to it
<seb128> you might get a request to review the changes if that works out ;-)
<robert_ancell_> no problem
<robert_ancell_> If any trouble, give me a call. I feel fairly in-depth with xrandr now (I've been deep diving into X protocol recently)
<seb128> ok, thanks
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I just applied for vacation during the next two weeks, I only had 3 days off this year so far and those two weeks are the ~only ones where this doesnt hurt too bad (between beta2 and the final rcs of the first upstream final).
<seb128> Sweet5hark, k, works for me
<robert_ancell_> Sweet5hark, you've only had three days off this year!? Man, take some time off!
<robert_ancell_> gtg, bye all
<seb128> robert_ancell_, summer is just starting for us, most people didn't take that many days off yet ;-)
<robert_ancell_> seb128, ah...
<pitti> bye robert_ancell_
<pitti> robert_ancell_: sounds like a real manager :)
<seb128> robert_ancell_, have a nice evening!
<Sweet5hark> robert_ancell_: yeah, its not too tragic ;)
 * Sweet5hark will have 5 hours of management meetings again (plus the desktop meeting with you guys, but thats enjoyable) this week, after that I need a vacation. ;)
<pitti> Sweet5hark: oh, so *you* are the new desktop manager?
<Laney> darkxst: I'm going to upload g-s-d, you missed the patch from series it seems
<Sweet5hark> pitti: Im not drunk enough yet to fall for that trap ;)
<Sweet5hark> TBH I doubt that would be possible.
<didrocks> pitti: libroffice management meetings :)
<seb128> pitti, don't try to sneak out from that job, it's yours without discussion ;-)
<pitti> Sweet5hark: ah, LibO management
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah, yeah, true. We made that decision in Malta, didnt we?
<pitti> Sweet5hark: you can synergize with having multiple management positions at the same time, and leverage your competencies in Ubuntu as well!
<Sweet5hark> pitti: E_TOOMANYBUZZWORDs
<pitti> yeah, I'm afraid it's about as many as my little engineer head can put into one sentence :/
<Laney> can we just hire 'managerRequest = const "yes"' as our new manager?
<pitti> Laney: what kind of language is that?
<Sweet5hark> Laney: nah, we need some logic to handle request from above slightly different :>
<pitti> so, who here wants to have meetings and hangouts all day, regularly fly to quarterly business reviews, forget how to program, and get desparate about falling behind the plan?
<Sweet5hark> pitti: its always the guy who is asking!
<Laney> Prelude> let managerRequest = const "yes"
<Laney> Prelude> managerRequest "can I have a pony?"
<Laney> "yes"
 * pitti should perhaps not work in recruitment marketing :)
<Laney> pitti: haskell ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: that's what I almost tested some months agoâ¦ so "no" :)
<didrocks> (without having the title ;))
<pitti> Laney: aah, should've known that :)
<darkxst> Laney, ah ok, oops, I know i did rebase the patch to keep the schemas ;)
<Laney> darkxst: you are a naughty boy!
<Laney> do you still use the vcs?
<Laney> looks like it
<pitti> ok, going offline for some time to work on some code and change train in a bit
<darkxst> Laney, ubuntu-desktop? yes
<Laney> thought you might have moved it to ubuntu-gnome-dev
<Laney> but actually it is still in u-desktop
<Laney> so this makes sense
<seb128> pitti, ttyl
<darkxst> Laney, well we could, but that makes no sense until it moves into our packageset
<Laney> okay
 * didrocks is going for a run to think about how to test this dynamic module loader (category/frameworks) effectively
<seb128> Laney, we need to build the schemas from u-s-d before doing that
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: thanks!
<Laney> maybe
 * didrocks fixes some pep8 before though
<Laney> that's pretty annoying for them
<darkxst> right, probably more new keys get added, than ones get removed
<seb128> we could keep the schemas updated in u-s-d
<Laney> yes, that's the annoying part :P
<seb128> like take the 3.12 version and put it in there
<Laney> buh, why is my local mirror giving 404s?
<seb128> larsu, could you have a look to https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/692f277e8623fe5be647a3a9ffcb59f6756371cc ?
<seb128> I wonder if that could be an issue with gtk 3.12, that started recently
<seb128> gtk_application_set_app_menu() issue
<larsu> seb128: sure, I'll have a look
<Laney> seb128: want to look at newing e-d-s if you have a minute?
<seb128> Laney, sure
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<Laney> also, looks like turning on recommends didn't add that much to next
 * seb128 nudges Laney with a -v<version>
<Laney> I used copy-package from a ppa
<Laney> maybe I forgot to -v there ...
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/177555901/evolution-data-server_3.12.2-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<Laney> looks okay
<seb128> limitation of the pocket copy I guess
<Laney> might be okay in the end
<Laney> ...
<seb128> Laney, NEWed
<Laney> great, merci buckets
<seb128> de rien ;-)
<Laney> yeah looks like it got the right one
<Laney> phew!
<Laney> not on -changes though :(
<seb128> right what? changelog?
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/evolution-data-server/3.12.2-1ubuntu1 â view changes file
<seb128> oh, right
<Laney> must be a copier bug
<seb128> yeah, I think it's a known issue, Colin mentioned it in the past iirc
<Laney> ho hum
<seb128> pitti, could you have a glance to https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-docs/hibernate-multiple-users/+merge/223300 to look if it's correct
<seb128> pitti, looks fine to me, but you know logind better
<pitti> seb128: replied there, with some nitpicking
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> mvo, hey, I just wanted to check what's the status of "get the correct backend used to install clicks"
<seb128> mvo, the desktop next iso is working now, I was trying to get clicks to install on it/test the new platform api to make sure it fixed the abort issue, but I'm unsure how to hack the aptcc backend exactly
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, what's the status of your fix/workaround for webbrowser on desktop mir sessions?
<mvo> seb128: where is the download url? you probably still need to change the backend to dummy, but I would love to test that myself as I still have not had time to dig into the deatils
<seb128> mvo, download url for what? the click?
<seb128> or the iso?
<Laney> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop-next/daily-live/current/
<seb128> what Laney said if you were asking about the iso
 * Laney guesses so
<seb128> yeah, me too ;-)
<mvo> ta
<mvo> downloading
<seb128> pitti, oh, also, that udisks bug ... the timeout issue, you pointed to an util-linux bug, which is "fix released" in Debian by an Ubuntu patch from you they backported, does it mean it's not really fixed or...?
<seb128> mvo, that's not going to be different from running unity8-desktop-session-mir on your install
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I suppose it's something else
<pitti> seb128: the ubuntu bug report for that is still open, haven't yet reproduced/debugged that one
<seb128> k
<seb128> mvo, where do you look for errors from the apps lens, I tried to install yes/no, I get it to display 100%, and then "installed", but no way to run it
<seb128> click list doesn't list it
<seb128> so I guess the "installed" is a lie
<mvo> seb128: probably
<mvo> seb128: .cache/upstart/logs iirc
<seb128> mvo, ok, issue 1 was "needs to restart session after configuring online accounts" ... I'm going to open a bug about that (do you know if there is already one?)
<seb128> hum, signond abort in fact, debugging
<mvo> seb128: I don't think there is one open already, if you have that, I will put it on the click-ftd blueprint
<mvo> seb128: I was bitten by it too
<seb128> mvo, I can do that, debugging the abrt first, then opening bugs/updating the blueprint
<mvo> ok
<Laney> just tried in vmware
<Laney> didn't work
<Laney> Failed to create GBM device
<mvo> Laney: does it work with kvm/qemu?
<Laney> nein
<mvo> :(
<mvo> how do I test it?
<seb128> mvo, boot a media on real hardware, until Mir supports VMs (which is scheduled for this cycle)
<seb128> Laney is trying to get 3d to work in vmware, that might be a solution as well, let's see
<ochosi> seb128: quick question, did you want me to redo the xdg-utils MR or can you apply my patch as is?
<seb128> ochosi, hey, I can apply it, I just didn't get to that yet
<ochosi> sure, no problem, just wanted to make sure you weren't waiting on me to do something :)
<seb128> I'm not, I've just been dealing with other things
<ochosi> good, no rush
<ochosi> just working through my todo-list before going away for a few days
<seb128> Laney, hum, "/usr/lib/gcc/arm-linux-gnueabihf/4.8/../../../arm-linux-gnueabihf/libwebkitgtk-3.0.so: undefined reference to `std::__once_call@GLIBCXX_3.4.11'" ... seems like evo got doked (that's the armhf build)
<mhr3> yey, we're not the only ones
<seb128> lol
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: mh no, I don't work on that... At least not yet.
<mvo> seb128: did you coin a new term for a broken build? "it got dokoed"?
<seb128> mvo, that's the vocabulary to use for buggy toolchains ;-)
<mvo> hahaha
<seb128> Trevinho, robert_ancell is off for some hours, what was he asking you?
<didrocks> seb128: is there a pattern already? :)
 * didrocks got dokoed on Travis CI, but a rebuild did it
<seb128> didrocks, between doko and buggy toolchains? sure is yes
<Trevinho> seb128: if I maintain unity8 session
<seb128> seems like libstdc++ is buggy
<seb128> Trevinho, oh ;-)
<didrocks> libstdc++â¦ add some C++11 on top of it and it rings some black time and hours to me :)
<seb128> indeed
<Trevinho> seb128: if that could be fixed would be nice, since that C++11 bits are quite nice to have
<seb128> yeah
<Trevinho> (like the ability to use automatically-disconnected-on-object-destruction-lambdas :P)
 * Laney gets a "I've been dokoed" tattoo
<Laney> it's a picture of his face
<seb128> who would like that?!
<Laney> badge of honour
<Laney> it gets you into all the secret clubs
<seb128> but are you supposed to talk about it then? ;-)
<Laney> being dokoed is a very public thing
<seb128> guess so, it just happened to a bunch of people today
<Laney> this is the positive side
<Laney> :P
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> 1) get punched in the face, 2) collect your payment
 * desrt boggles
<seb128> mterry, hey, are you still looking at the wizard/making it use unity-mir only on the arch where it exists?
<seb128> mvo, how is "disable aptcc backend and use "dummy", otherwise aptcc wanted to install the click as a deb pakage" done in practice? like what packages to install/commands to run?
<mterry> seb128, yeah I filed a merge over the weekend
<mterry> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-system-settings/wizard.arch-unsplit/+merge/223178
<seb128> mterry, oh, you did? sorry I didn't see that in my email backlog for some reason
<mterry> sniff, sniff
<didrocks> \o/ phew, that was a fight with python contextmanager, but I can now mock entire subdirectories of frameworks for my tests ;)
<mvo> seb128: edit /etc/PackageKit/PackagesKit.conf and set the backend to "dummy"
<mvo> seb128: iirc, path may need adjustment
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<mvo> yw
<seb128> mterry, shouldn't you drop the build-depends on libunity-mir in there?
<mterry> seb128, I believe there is a header include for a macro
<seb128> mterry, that's not going to resolve the depwait issue on those archs then :
<seb128> :/
<mterry> seb128, don't we have the same problem for unity8?
<mterry> I thought I copied that #include/macro code from it
<seb128> mterry, well, if unity8 is missing on ppc that's fine
<seb128> but if u-s-s is missing it's not, because u-s-s-o-a depends on it, and that has rdepends like clicks and other stuff
<seb128> that are currently available on those archs
<Laney> can't you arch-restrict the build-dep?
<seb128> (click might not a right example)
<seb128> Laney, not if the code use a macro defined in there, that's going to ftbfs
<Laney> the build system of the project using the code can check for it
<seb128> Laney, we are discussing https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu-system-settings/wizard.arch-unsplit/+merge/223178
<seb128> Laney, right it can, and it should ;-)
<seb128> I'm just saying that those changes don't address the arch set issue which was blocking the landing
<mterry> seb128, OK I can make the arch-detection better
<mterry> seb128, I figured that whatever unity8 did was fine, but I get ya
<seb128> mterry, or just add a --disable-wizard if you prefer and use that on arch where unity-mir is missing
<seb128> sorry about that
<mterry> seb128, OK try that -- it was just using the header for a class typedef
<seb128> mterry, you need to update wizard/CMakeLists.txt to not include it then?
<mterry> seb128, oh huh, I built
<seb128> mterry, you have unity-mir.pc installed?
<mterry> Oh but I didn't build in a pbuilder
<mterry> ahem
<seb128> lol
 * mterry fixes and builds clean
<seb128> dobey, mvo, mhr3: the unity8 app lens seems to need packagekit to be able to install clicks ... is that right? if so should something have a depends on it so it gets installed by default? (that's not the case today)
<mvo> seb128: thats correct, it needs packagekit
<dobey> seb128: i'm not sure what exactly should have the depends on "packagekit"
<mhr3> dobey, install manager? :)
<seb128> dobey, what is doing the install? unity-scope-click? the download manager?
<dobey> mhr3: doesn't exist
<dobey> seb128: pkcon
<seb128> dobey, what is calling pkcon?
<dobey> seb128: technically teh download-manager, but only because the scope is telling it to
<seb128> so the scope should have the depends?
<mterry> seb128, updated, builds fine in my pbuilder
<dobey> seb128: i don't know
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<dobey> seb128: i don't understand the issue enough to say what exactly should have the dep
<seb128> dobey, who would know/have an opinion on that?
<seb128> like who knows the architecture of that stack?
<seb128> mandel?
<dobey> no, not mandel
<dobey> i'd guess mvo
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mvo, ^ ;-)
<mhr3> dobey, i just like pointing out all the reasons why it should be there :P
<dobey> seb128: is the unity8 preview image not building with the ubuntu-touch seed?
<mhr3> seb128, click scope should have the dep
<mhr3> seb128, it requests the dm to run it
<seb128> dobey, it's a derived seed based on the touch one
<seb128> dobey, but we don't want all the android bits
<seb128> dobey, so it's a different seed
<dobey> mhr3: based on "what it runs" the dep would be on packagekit-tools, which i guess doesn't depend on packagekit itself
<Laney> mterry: this cleanup thing!
<dobey> mhr3: so i'd guess something in the dep tree of packagekit-tools should depend on packagekit
<dobey> and the scope might need a dep on packagekit-tools
<mterry> Laney, you mean this beautiful script of elegance and correctness, I assume?
<mhr3> are you saying that packagekit-tools don't actually dep on packagekit itself?
<mterry> :)
<mhr3> clearly that would be a bug
<Laney> haha
<seb128> dobey, mterry: it depends on python3-aptdaemon.pkgcompat | packagekit
<Laney> can't you do this stuff from the wizard itself?
<mterry> Laney, I could, but it felt "shell scripty"
<mterry> Laney, but I'd be happy to move it into the wizard if you hate the look of the cleanup job
<mvo> seb128: oh, me?
<mvo> seb128: let me read backlog
<seb128> mvo, basically discussing how to pull packagekit on the image
<seb128> mvo, the scope should depends on packagekit-tools
<seb128> mvo, that depends on python3-aptdaemon.pkgcompat | packagekit
<seb128> mvo, is python3-aptdaemon.pkgcompat a valable alternative in that situation?
<Laney> mterry: I don't know for 100% but upstart has SetEnv and EmitEvent on its d-bus API on the session bus
<Laney> well, I don't want to make you do busy work
<Laney> but I'll just say that I'm not a fan of this architecture :)
<Laney> I'm sure it works though
<seb128> Laney, mterry: I would prefer avoiding having upstart calls in code, especially since we are switching to systemd in the futur
<seb128> it's easier to have an overview on scripts
<mterry> Laney, it was partly because it is partly copied code from the split greeter wrapper which was in bash
<Laney> this would be contained within a function
<Laney> I imagine all of this is going to have to be reworked for systemd anyway
<seb128> right
<mvo> seb128: could we make it part of unity8-desktop-session-mir until this is sorted out?
<seb128> mvo, we could, but does that mean that python3-aptdaemon.pkgcompat is not a valid replacement?
<Laney> mterry: how about when it's replaced with systemd it's done in code if possible ;-)
<mvo> seb128: its only for debs
<mvo> seb128: but cjwatson did a clever plugin so that pk does support both click and deb
<seb128> oh ok
<mvo> where normally you only can have a single package system backend (AIUI)
<seb128> mvo, ok, let's add a depends on unity8-desktop-session-mir then
<mvo> so we would either have to add click support to aptdaemon
<mvo> or make PK and aptcc the new aptdaemon
<Laney> why not seed it?
<mvo> both is quite a bit of work
<mterry> Laney, well, this is the user's session -- so it won't be replaced with systemd for a little bit, eh?
<mvo> Laney: that would work too of course, but the downside is that people who want to try the session on a regular install won't get working clicks
<seb128> Laney, because then installing unity-desktop-mir-session doesn't give you something working
<Laney> installing unity8 on its own doesn't either
<Laney> It's seeded in touch already
<Laney> for info
<seb128> packagekit?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> Laney, that works for me as well ... I just want it installed, being a depends of unity8 or the lens or the seed or whatever ;-)
<seb128> they are equally valid options in my opinion
<seb128> but if you prefer the seed please go for it
<seb128> I'm not picky, as long as we get it on the iso ;-)
<Laney> I'd say either the lens if it requires it or the seed if we make a choice
<Laney> but the thing that we advertise people to install ought to be the metapacakge from the seed imho
<Laney> so yeah can do that
<Laney> hopefully it won't cause a problem with the conflicts from python3-aptdaemon.pkcompat
<Laney> just noticed we get u-c-c on the image via libaccount-plugin-1.0-0
<Laney> should that have an alternate depends on u-s-s?
<Laney> recommends*
<seb128> Laney, the lens depends on packagekit-tools
<seb128> which "Depends: python3-aptdaemon.pkcompat | packagekit-system-interface | packagekit (= 0.8.12-1ubuntu5)"
<seb128> but as mvo said, the first choice only handle debs
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> Laney, is libaccount-plugin-1.0-0 getting u-c-c in through the recommends on u-c-c-signon?
<Laney> yeah
 * desrt_ eyes desrt
<seb128> Laney, right, let me mp an alternative recommends on u-s-s
<Laney> u-s-s-o-a maybe?
<seb128> right
<larsu> desrt, desrt_: err...
 * Laney sees a mirage
<desrt_> i feel like i'm in bizarro universe
<desrt_> my net went down for an hour and now i can't ssh to my irc box
<seb128> oh, it's meeting time
<qengho> yay!
<Laney> oh man i've never thought of that before
 * mrage in the desrt 
<desrt_> the box is up, but ssh is closing all incoming connections as soon as they're open
<desrt_> mrage: attente beat you to this joke
<desrt_> he used to go by 'forst'
<mrage> yeah
<mrage> I had rivr once
<seb128> qengho, Laney, mrage, tkamppeter, desrt, desrt_, attente, larsu, KombuchaKip, didrocks: hey, it's meeting time
<didrocks> hey!
<mrage> shit don't put me that high up
<larsu> oh, already?!
<seb128> yes ;-)
<seb128> ok, let's get started
<qengho> desrt_: Could be PTR-/A-record dns mismatch from you now, or something on the box.
<seb128> qengho, your turn
<qengho> * away 6 days on jury duty.
<qengho> * catching up on Cr releases. New stable release, v35!
<qengho> * merging window density-geometry fixes.
<qengho> * to-do this week, merge session management ("missing tab") fixes.
<desrt_> qengho: dns is fine
<seb128> qengho, oh, you got a fix for the session management? good!
<qengho> seb128: :)  I didn't fix it. I just merge.  :\
<seb128> k, well good to see it resolved in any case ;-)
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> no Sweetshark?
<seb128> Laney, your turn I guess (still feeling weird to have you in front of the list)
<Laney> 1 sec
<Laney> phew
<Laney> â¢ Some u-s-s bug fixes: whoopsie-preferences d-bus activation bug, time-date tests, triage bugs
<Laney> â¢ fix/sync tdb
<Laney> â¢ finish colord transition
<Laney> â¢ some reviews / discussions / sponsoring of gtk
<Laney> â¢ evo/e-d-s 3.12 transition, dokoed on evo/armhf build
<Laney> â¢ get dokoed when trying to x-build u-s-s, debug that a bit, toolchain mismatch
<Laney> â¢ some desktop-next seed fixes, tweaks, testing (branch landed, doesn't run on my machine - mir crash)
<Laney> â¢ g-s-d bugfix for missing key
<Laney> â¢ glib2.0 pcfile bugfix, dokoed on a binutils bug
<Laney> FIN
<didrocks> Laney: 2 dokoization in a week? congrats :)
<Laney> three!
<desrt> larsu: glib pc file?
<didrocks> oh, missed one, indeed!
<Laney> desrt_: https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=9f69534030f963183ac5398889630a641a71409b
<larsu> desrt: Laney
<desrt> Laney: larsu
<desrt> larsu: (sorry)
<Laney> oh also arranged guadec travel
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, your turn
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Made bannertopdf working with PPD-less printing (to allow printing test page also), fixed banner templates so that correct banner textst appear on banner pages, minor bug fixes.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: SRU for Trusty to re-activate exception rules for using Poppler instead of Ghostscript on certain printer models with PS interpreter bugs.
<tkamppeter> - libspectre: Fixed display of rotated PostScript files with evince using an upstream patch, also prepared SRU for Trusty.
<tkamppeter> - Mentoring of GSoC students
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
 * KombuchaKip waves
<qengho> desrt_: does remote end accept the SSH creds you expect?  -v shows correct host-key sent, or password-auth allowed, or whatever?
<seb128> KombuchaKip, hey, not your turn yet
<desrt> qengho: even on telnet i don't see the remote version string... just accepts and closes immediately
<desrt> restarting sshd fixed it
<desrt> (linode has a nice ajax-based local-console-access mechanism)
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks (I've sponsored the libspectre SRU, it's in the unapproved queue waiting for review next)
<seb128> desrt: ok, it's your turn ;-)
<desrt> mostly bugs this week
<desrt> plus some work on the mutex stuff still
<desrt> also helped to unblock attente on a longstanding unity-gtk-module bug yesterday
<seb128> the eclipse one?
<desrt> and spent some time digging in gdesktopappinfo -- looks like the rewrite of the mime handling there has issues :(
<seb128> did you get a change for GTK that we need to backport?
<attente> desrt: thanks
<desrt> seb128: not sure exactly which app it was -- maybe attente can say
<desrt> was the one about the action activations going in the wrong order
<attente> seb128: yeah, it's the one needed for eclipse
<seb128> let me know if there is a GTK patch to sponsor
<desrt> there is
<desrt> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=b532e1ff0ab25303c838565220e8d41fb3044a05
<desrt> ugly patch but it gets the job done
<seb128> k
<desrt> (and every other possible way would have been more ugly)
<desrt> (eof)
<larsu> desrt: this is ugly...
<seb128> desrt: thanks
<seb128> attente, hey, your turn
<desrt> larsu: only less ugly way would have been a (new) public signal
<attente> updated the fcitx-transition PPA to add basic fcitx support to indicator-keyboard, u-s-d, and u-c-c
<larsu> yeah I guess so. Was just reiterating your own opinion
<attente> but it requires some initial user configuration of fcitx, and there's not that much changes to u-c-c (it just allows adding of fcitx sources, and it isn't really clear to the user that having fcitx enabled means the ibus sources aren't used)
<attente> input switching is super slow for fcitx though (i guess since we activate it over fcitx's dbus interface)
<larsu> a bus call is that slow?
<seb128> attente, don't spend too much work on fcitx, if needed the Kylin team can pick up and improve things, it's already nice to them that you added support for it
<desrt> attente also started working on the accountsservice input stuff....
<seb128> good
<desrt> didrocks: what's the status with the session-migration stuff?
<attente> seb128: sure
<didrocks> desrt: which status? It's still in use
<desrt> we had some questions about the best way to move the settings from gsettings into accountsservice as a one-time migration task.... but it has to be done in an upstreamable way
<seb128> attente, if you have things waiting for sponsoring please remind me, I know you mentioned some before your days off, and I put that on the side because the GTK change was still in-discussion
<desrt> and iirc session-migration (with your improvements) never got much traction and they even eventually dropped the original once gconf was old enough....
<attente> ok
<didrocks> desrt: I see no reason to not upstream it or block on that. I guess we'll have to work on systemd integration at some point IIRC
<desrt> ah.  that's an interesting point.
<didrocks> so if we need to push it, I can try to open the discussion
<didrocks> (it's using upstart now)
<desrt> i don't want to get attente shaving too many yaks, but i guess this discussion needs to happen soon anyway....
<desrt> would appreciate it if you could start that discussion, indeed -- maybe even using attente's usecase as a motivator
<didrocks> desrt: I can handle it, let's discuss that later this week and sync, I'm not 100% sure of all the needs
<desrt> probably lennart will want to just make systemd handle it :p
<desrt> since, you know... it's something that a computer does
<didrocks> hehe :)
<didrocks> we can put something like that in systemd, there is no black magic :)
<didrocks> (and add a segfault ;))
<desrt> sounds good to me -- and would help with what attente is working on
<seb128> ok, I guess that's enough on the topic for the meeting
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> desrt, didrocks: thanks as well ;-)
<didrocks> yw
<seb128> larsu, your turn ;-)
<larsu> oh, crazily unprepared
<larsu> but then, it was a fairly slow week
<Laney> * fixed gtk 3.12 tests
<larsu> I did the 3.12 test fixes which took a bit more time than they should've because of my own stupidity
<larsu> helped push notification guys use libmessaging menu a bit
<larsu> talked to company about dropping our theme and tested whether we can
<larsu> worked a bit on the themes to fix volume buttons and header bars
<Laney> theme *engine*?
<seb128> unico
<larsu> (not up yet, I'm still talking to Company about the details)
<larsu> Laney: unico
<Laney> yes
<Laney> the line said "dropping our theme"
<larsu> ah, sorry :)
<larsu> unprepared and all...
<desrt> Laney: dunno if you know, but "adwaita" means "one and only" in hindi :)
<larsu> finally gave desrt a first round of review for the xmlreader / gsettings-for-different-desktops branch
<Laney> desrt: I know about the giant tortoise
<seb128> larsu, Laney: lol, I read that as "theme engine" but I knew what we talking about... ;-)
<seb128> Laney, thanks for the clarification
<Laney> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f1/Adwaita.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adwaita&h=263&w=191&tbnid=zoKsZdxLnYwiIM:&zoom=1&tbnh=160&tbnw=116&usg=__vgPKrMw66ZDX-hGIJam_UzR5-BY=&docid=nta5yLKvcVnl6M&itg=1&client=ubuntu&sa=X&ei=6GSgU_CfJYLX7Aaj9oGQDw&ved=0CKcBEPwdMA8
<desrt> Laney: kinda looks the same as the theme in terms of usage of padding :)
<seb128> lol
<larsu> and I think that's it?!
<seb128> larsu, debugged eog/glib/gtk/menu issue as well
<seb128> larsu, thanks ;-)
<larsu> ah right
<larsu> I have a fix for that in some terminal
 * larsu frantically alt-tabs
<seb128> you can filter on win titles in the unity overview ;-)
<desrt> larsu: add-criticals patch is welcome
<larsu> there'll be another fix for it as soon as desrt makes up his mind
<larsu> desrt: I still don't like that...
<seb128> didrocks, hey, your turn!
<desrt> you prefer that you can set it before registration?
<didrocks> Short week (4 days) + UOS, took Friday off.
<didrocks> * participated to some cloud/juju sessions on GUI, charms, and other juju topics
<larsu> seb128: ah cool! I didn't know that
<desrt> and that the impl will pick it up?
<didrocks> * get the apt module (requirementhandler) under tests for the ubuntu developer tools center, adjust the API to be threaded and give signals back
<didrocks> * shaped the framework and category module loaders to be able having the ubuntu developer tools center pointing multiple install types. Putting under tests as we speak (already started and framework in place).
<didrocks> * put in place strategy (related to previous task) for shell interface and bindings to those detected frameworks.
<didrocks> * talked with OEM about development desktop experience
<didrocks> EOF
<seb128> didrocks, thanks (nice to see you are having fun/do interesting stuff, compared to watching the landings)
<desrt> didrocks: i'm having an issue with unity... can you help me track that down later?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> didrocks, it's a test, say "no" :p
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, that's a change :)
<didrocks> desrt: noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, never ever ever again :)
<desrt> didrocks: correct answer.  you pass the test.  :)
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> desrt, nice try ;-)
<seb128> KombuchaKip, hey, any status update to share this week?
<seb128> seems not...
<seb128> ok, my turn
<seb128> * reviewed platform-api changes, helped that to land
<seb128> * set up proper sbuild for cross-building
<seb128> * sponsoring (some syncs, libspectre) and landings (libdbusmenu)
<seb128> * ubuntu-system-settings reviews and landings (wizard, bluetooth tweaks, osk sound, tz filter bugfix)
<seb128> * UOS sessions (unity8 on desktop, langpacks for touch, clicks on desktop, etc)
<seb128> * helped testing&landing some unity8 desktop session changes
<seb128> * NEW reviews
<seb128> * testing and debugging for the ubuntu-desktop-next iso (indicator not starting, clicks scope still not working out of the box)
<seb128> * some SRUs for trusty
<seb128> </week>
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Submitted another iteration of a Mozilla patch for Thunderbird I wrote (Bugzilla #824909); then resumed work on an RFE for Eiciel (LP #1247782); then put that down and now just started on (LP #1220818).
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1247782 could not be found
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1220818 could not be found
<seb128> KombuchaKip, is the tb patch getting anywhere? it has been a while it's being in review
<seb128> KombuchaKip, thanks
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Sorry man, but there's not really anything I can do as it's out of my hands. All I can do is write and submit the patch, revise it as they need, and wait for them to merge. But the good news is that so far at least two Mozilla devs have given it a green light.
<seb128> is there any other topic/update/comment?
<seb128> KombuchaKip, good ;-)
<KombuchaKip> seb128: But hopefully it shouldn't be too much longer now. ;)
<seb128> k, thanks
<seb128> so
<seb128> extra update/comment/topics?
<desrt> seb128: one
<seb128> if not let's wrap the meeting
<seb128> desrt, yes?
<desrt> i'd like everyone to know that last night, i was elected as an official of the esperanto circle of toronto
<larsu> desrt: congrats.
<desrt> i am now the 'vicprezidanto pri krokodilaj aferoj'
<desrt> vppka|desrt
<larsu> why not president? Ken?
<desrt> larsu: matthew
<seb128> desrt, oh, now the nickname makes sense ;-)
<larsu> Ken would make a better president
<seb128> desrt, congrats!
<desrt> larsu: he declined the nomination...
<didrocks> desrt: Gratulon!
<seb128> on that note, let's call it a wrap, thanks everyone!
<desrt> seb128: thanks :D
<attente> krokodilaj?
<Laney> well done
<larsu> thanks seb128!
<desrt> attente: krokodili is the verb "to crocodile"
<didrocks> dankon :)
<desrt> which means to speak ones native language when you oguht to be speaking esperanto (like at meetings)
<attente> ah
<attente> seb128: there's this which needs to be SRU'd: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gnome-settings-daemon/1311443/+merge/221526 which is a subset of the changes darkxst proposed here: https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/ubuntu/utopic/gnome-settings-daemon/lp1318539/+merge/219154
<attente> it's for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1311443
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1311443 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "switching input method is not reliable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<attente> seb128: this is desrt's patch to be sponsored for eclipse: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/menu-binding-emit-submenu-close-after-activate/+merge/223420
<seb128> Laney, is https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/ubuntu/utopic/gnome-settings-daemon/lp1318539/+merge/219154 something you looked at? it seemed to include a fix for the issue you had this morning
<seb128> attente, ^ that branch is for utopic and your is for the SRU, right?
<seb128> yours*
<attente> seb128: yes
<Laney> seb128: haven't seen it but looks like that
<Laney> I think that 468 is what got uploaded?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> seems like dholbach didn't update the mp status or that didn't close on push as usual
<seb128> weird
<seb128> that can probably be set to "merged" right?
<Laney> well 470 wasn't applied
<Laney> in the upload
<Laney> weird
<seb128> yeah, dunno what happened
<attente> it's in the changelog though, isn't it?
<Laney> think it was missed somehow
<Laney> anyway it's merged other than that
<mitya57> ChrisTownsend: Hi, did you have a chance to look at Alberts MuktupÄvels' compiz branches? I am going to upload Metacity 3.12 to archive, and ported gtk-window-decorator is a prerequisite for that.
<mitya57> I have tested his branches, and they work great here.
<dobey> seb128: so, are you just adding "packagekit" to the seed for now?
<seb128> dobey, yes, the lens already depends on -tools
<dobey> right
<dobey> just wanted to make sure we were on the same page there :)
<dobey> and the gcc-4.9 breakage is a bit distracting for me at the moment
<seb128> right
<ChrisTownsend> mitya57: No, I haven't reviewed yet, but I can very soon.  I don't have any way to test this, so I'll have to take your word on it that it works:)
<mitya57> ChrisTownsend: I have prepared some test packages in ppa:mitya57/gnome-test (this is pre-3.12 version of Metacity, will update to 3.12 when I have time).
<mitya57> Also, what Alberts proposed now is just a preparation, when/if you merge this he'll propose the actual porting branch.
<ChrisTownsend> mitya57: Right.  I guess my job is to make sure it doesn't break anything:)
<mitya57> ChrisTownsend: yeah. Thanks!
<ChrisTownsend> mitya57: np, thanks for the reminder
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-18
<attente> happyaron: hey
<attente> happyaron: i uploaded a modified unity-settings-daemon, unity-control-center and indicator-keyboard to the fcitx-transition ppa
<attente> happyaron: it's got a long way to go.. but it's a start at least
<happyaron> attente: thanks, what are the changes included?
<didrocks> pitti: bonjour !
<mvo> hey pitti and didrocks!
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<pitti> hey didrocks, hallo mvo
<didrocks> pitti: how are you?
<larsu> good morning pitti, didrocks!
<didrocks> hey mvo, larsu!
<larsu> oh hi mvo
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien, merci ! j'ai mangÃ© beaucoup de fraises Ã  ce matin
<pitti> hallo larsu
<didrocks> pitti: elles Ã©taient bonnes ?
<pitti> didrocks: bien sÃ»r ! we plucked them ourselves
<didrocks> oh nice :)
<mvo> hey larsu :)
<didrocks> pitti: je voulais te demander (si tu as dÃ©jÃ  rencontrÃ© cette situation) : I want to add some check after each test of all my tests. However, it's part of the test themselves (for instance, ensuring that there has been no log.warning() or log.error()), so not really for a super class running setUp() tearDown() to inherit instead of unittest. Do you know what's the most correct way to implement this?
<didrocks> or would you just add the assert() in tearDown() of a super class?
<pitti> didrocks: you can add the assert to tearDown(), but that will of course short-circuit any "real" cleanup that you do there
<pitti> didrocks: so if you can live with that, it's fine
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, that's part of my worrying (well, even if the failure shouldn't happen often ;) so I can live with temp files not cleaned), but if you think of no other easy wayâ¦
<didrocks> I don't really want to decorate each test_*() :)
<pitti> didrocks: you can clean up first, and then do the assertions
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, will do that I guess. I another way is to use __get_attr__ I guess and match on "test_*", but unsure it worths that magic
<Laney> hey hey hey
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey Laney, salut seb128 !
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<Laney> nicht schlecht danke, und dir?
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> been learning to knit this morning ;-)
<seb128> Laney, auch gut, danke ;-)
<seb128> Laney, doing an U.K scarf for the worldcup or something? ;-)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> man that would involve mixing colours and everything, complex
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> maybe by the next world cup i might be able to do that
<mvo> hey Laney - how come you started to learn to knit?
<Laney> hey mvo
<Laney> my girlfriend does it all the time
<seb128> good morning mvo ;-)
<Laney> so decided to teach me ...
<mvo> nice
<mvo> hey seb128, good morning
<Laney> i think my technique is rubbish though
<seb128> Laney, oh, so she might be able to knit the scarf for this one!
<Laney> i'm getting a bit of cramp after 2 rows
<seb128> need to train the muscles!
<Laney> i think it's because you end up holding it too tight
<Laney> otherwise the stitches fall off and stuff
<Laney> looks like -next got packagekit today
<seb128> great
<seb128> I'm going to try that in a bit to see if that's enough to make click install out of the box
<mhr3_> seb128, hilfe!
<mhr3_> seb128, got an issue, i'm trying to install libunity-scopes2 which conflicts with libunity-scopes1, but when i try to remove libunity-scopes1 it's trying to remove half of unity8, even though the direct deps are just scopes
<mhr3_> how can i see a nice graph or something which would tell me why is it doing that?
<seb128> mhr3_, where is that new scopes2 binary?
<mhr3_> seb128, on my machine
<seb128> no ppa with it?
<mhr3_> not yet
<seb128> mhr3_, well, you can apt-cache rdepends --show-installed=yes libunity-scopes1
<seb128> then rdepends on those results
<seb128> but having a ppa would allow you to use apt and make debugging easier
<Laney> does it need to conflict?
<mhr3_> yes
<Laney> library transitions don't usually
<seb128> Laney, libunity-scopes1 has binaries and upstart jobs
<seb128> that's wrong
<mhr3_> can i force dpkg to install stuff even though it breaks something?
<seb128> mhr3_, you should split that binary in unity-sopes and libunity-scopes2
<seb128> mhr3_, --force-depends
<mhr3_> we should
<seb128> dpkg -i --force-depends deb
<mhr3_> thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> then apt-get -f install to let apt bring back sanity
<seb128> or try to
<Sweet5hark> moin!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, you missed the meeting!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, could you send a summary next time that happens and maybe state that you are not going to be able to join
<Sweet5hark> seb128: urgh, indeed. I was so mindwrapped in the last call I completely forgot.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: status update would have been: 4.2.5~rc2 bumped to the ppa, 4.2.4 special update prepared, 4.3.0~beta1 and 4.3.0~beta2 updated and build to the prereleases ppa. The latter still has some stability issues, which is slightly worrying. I had to temporarily disable tests and witnessed some wierd behaviour. We are still early in the cycle though.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: really sorry about that one.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, no worry, thanks for the update ;-)
<seb128> no reply from infinity on the SRU build fix so far I guess?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: that mean btw the FTBFS issue on trusty/utopic against FF30 should be resolved.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: nope, nothing explicitly onfirmingits all good. I had a short chat with infinity after the Firefox fix -- as in "will review it now".
<seb128> k
<Sweet5hark> seb128: its a one line change though ;)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: the guy on bug 1308771 wants a new binary package SRUed into trusty? What does our redtape say about that?
<ubot5> bug 1308771 in openoffice.org-hyphenation (Ubuntu Trusty) "Update Swedish spellcheck and hyphenation dictionaries" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308771
<Sweet5hark> seb128: from a technical perspective its likely low risk, but ... its a new package without the MIR-dance etc.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, is that a new source or just a new binary?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: new binary only.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, that doesn't need MIR or anything, looks fine to me for a SRU but you might still want to check with the SRU team what they think
<seb128> attente, hey, seems like indicator-keyboard fails to build in utopic (could be due to the new vala version), could you have a look (that's the error the ppa had, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7663029/)
<seb128>   VALAC    indicator_keyboard_service_vala.stamp
<seb128> glib-2.0.vapi:967.28-967.43: error: Access to instance member `length' from nullable reference denied
<seb128> 		if (str_array != null || str_array.length > 0 || (str_array.length == -1 && str_array[0] != null)) {
<seb128> could be a glib issue as well
<seb128> Laney, desrt: ^ do you know?
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: well, we will SRU 4.2.4 now, given the latency of SRU, I think we skip 4.2.5 (PPA only), so the next earliest trusty SRU will be 4.2.6 (August, 3) or 4.2.7 (October, 20), so no hurry there.
<Laney> seb128: looks like a vala bug
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, ok
<seb128> Laney, hum, k, wouldn't be vala if things would be stable and working I guess
<Laney> indicator-keyboard turns on an experimental feature
<Laney> which is apparently buggy with something in the glib vapi
<Laney> gnome bug #728656
<ubot5> Gnome bug 728656 in Non-null "string.joinv" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728656
<seb128> that was working in trusty
<seb128> I wonder if that's a regression in vala itself
<Laney> it is, that's what I said
<seb128> or if glib changed and makes it unhappy
<Laney> no
<Laney> it is a change to the vapi
<seb128> k
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: btw I just copied the 4.3.0~beta2 to libreoffice-prereleases. Note that version is still quite unstable for me (thus the disabled tests). Feel free to backport to trusty though.
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: _If_ you backport, I would be interested if its more stable on trusty: e.g. do the tests succeed although they fail on utopic.
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: Or if (simple testcase) 1/ opening writer 2/ typing "dt<F3>" for the delauft dead text crashes office like it does on utopic ;)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, hi, i see, in case of 4.3 i will wait for the rc1 :)
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: which was tagged today ;) -- I will try to get a build of that still, but be aware I will be on vacation next week, so if there is no build on Friday there likely wont be one for some time ;)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, alright, i will keep that in mind ;)
<desrt> seb128: looks like they're stepping up vala's null checking
<desrt> that might be my fault -- but only very very indirectly :)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, the missing l10n package for 4.3b2 is intended?
<seb128> desrt, hey
<seb128> desrt, Laney pointed to http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728656
<ubot5> Gnome bug 728656 in Non-null "string.joinv" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ricotz> seb128, desrt, hey :)
<seb128> desrt, do we have anyone we can ping to get vala patches reviewed? ;-)
<Laney> it doesn't compile, as the comment notes
<desrt> yes.  Leathalman or nemequ.
<desrt> or ricotz sometimes :)
<Laney> fix compiler plz
<seb128> hey ricotz
<desrt> poke the bug and let evan know you're in trouble
<seb128> ricotz, ^ do you have any opinion on that bug?
<ricotz> desrt, better test it against the broken snippet and poke nemequ
<seb128> attente, ^ can you do the comment/poking, since it's your code, you might be in a better position to discuss the issue and possible changes or workarounds?
<Laney> tried to work around it but all I did was create a segfault :P
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: pretty much. There is one in my staging ppa, if you want it. But a/ it ran out of disc space b/ at beta2 l10n is incomplete anyway, so I didnt bother too much.
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, ah ok
<desrt> seb128: i poked in vala.... let's see if they have anything to say over the next littl ewhile
<desrt> otherwise i can start looking closer myself
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<larsu> desrt: morning :)
<desrt> larsu: hi :D
 * larsu is patching gtk this afternoon
 * didrocks streches his hairs on issubclass in python :/
<seb128> larsu, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-12&id=30e07a1f3df53d84e72440bde1a1bdef6db5e5d2 ... the since doesn't match the serie, not sure what's the rule for such backports?
<larsu> seb128: ah, good point, I don't know what the rule is. Let's wait for desrt to yell at me
<seb128> lol
<desrt> looks good to me :)
<desrt> i'm not sure what else you'd put there....
<seb128> desrt, you could put 3.12.3
<seb128> or that doesn't work?
<seb128> desrt, it's weird to have a 3.12 release have a since that is > 3.12
<seb128> "it's there, and yet it was added in a version newer than the one you are using and has it"
<desrt> seb128: we only put major versions for since tags
<desrt> and it's obviously not since 3.12
<desrt> i guess the real answer here is "don't add API to the stable branch" :)
<seb128> heh
 * seb128 wonders how many lines didrocks had in buffer with that copy
<larsu> seb128: a full jpeg, base64 encoded
<seb128> we could be there all day long
<seb128> didrocks, close you IRC, or reconnect!
<larsu> ya... if only someone was operator
<didrocks> seb128: really, still sending it for you?
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<larsu> didrocks: yes.
<didrocks> tried to disconnect
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> that worked
<didrocks> phew, defeated issubclass()! \o/
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: What was the finishing move?
<mterry> seb128, architectures!  Can't live with em, can't live without em
<seb128> mterry, good morning! sorry you have to wake up to that again today!
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: forcing with importlib reloading some modules, however, not sure it's all 100% set
<mterry> seb128, should be an easy fix
<seb128> mterry, ;-)
<Sweet5hark1> seb128, ricotz: by the way, since I will be on vacation soon you might negotiate the debian sync/MIR for librevenge. ricotz wrote most of the rationale already and I dont have any powe to MIR, sponsor or sync anyway :>
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, oh, I had a comment earlier ... is there good content is 3.4.5?
<seb128> shrug, 4.2.5 I mean
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, you mentioned skipping it, but 4.2.6 is going to be after LTS .1
<seb128> so we should maybe try to get .5 in there?
<Sweet5hark1> well, some ~100 bugfixes as usual: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/4.2.5/RC1 and https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Releases/4.2.5/RC2
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: but: it needs a mdds update or shipping our own copy ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, well, that's going to be the same for .6 no?
<Sweet5hark1> of course, thats also true for 4.2.6/7 but I didnt race for that SRU now for that reason.
<seb128> shipping a copy sounds fine to me, if needed
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: yep.
<seb128> well, you are the one looking after lo
<seb128> but I think having more bugfixes in the LTS .1 (which is when LTS users are prompted for upgrade) makes sense
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: ok, well. 4.2.5~rc2 is in the PPA. Its gonna be 4.2.5 final on Thursday by upstream. If its been 2 weeks in the ppa without any reported regressions we can throw that version over the fence as SRU after my vacation.
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, ok, your call
<Sweet5hark1> well, maybe with the l10n stuff for swedish? dictionaries on top.
<mterry> seb128, branch updated
<seb128> mterry, looking
<didrocks> ok, finally defeated now :)
<mterry> seb128, btw, hardcoding 1 instead of using the symbol is what unity8 does.  I was trying to be more proper, this is what I get.  ;)
<Laney> found a workaround for that vala bug btw
<seb128> Laney, nice!
<Laney> will update post-lunch
<Laney> i-keyboard needs another non-null fix too
<seb128> let's wait for attente to be around for that
<Laney> lib/main.vala:802
<seb128> or feel free to mp those fixes and he can review/ack them then
<Laney> will do if someone else doesn't, that's the location
<Laney> state can be null
<Laney> biab
<attente> seb128, Laney: hey
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> i could just disable the experimental non-null falg
<attente> *flag
<seb128> well, I guess you turned that on for a reason?
<pitti> seb128, Laney: btw, yesterday's u-next image boots fine here
<pitti> seb128, Laney: in some way it's even more depressing as so many things (wifi, browser, weird mouse, etc.) are not yet working, but good to see Mir working :)
<pitti> so, great job!
<attente> only for strict null checking
<seb128> attente, k, well your call on how you want to fix it, seems like Laney has a workaround for the vala bug, so that would work as well, let's wait for him to be back
<seb128> pitti, wifi is just an small fix to indicator-network's upstart job, I'm going to mp that today
<pitti> seb128: oh, nice
<attente> oh, i see that problem
<pitti> indeed I didn't see that at all
<attente> i thought it was the glib vapi problem
<pitti> seb128: do you know, is the browser not working due to being offline?
<attente> i'll fix it
<seb128> pitti, no, it's an issue with the elg backend and mir, chrisccoulson said he has a workaround, I tried to ping him to know when that's planned to land but he didn't pong yet
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey ;-)
<seb128> attente, thanks
<attente> happyaron: hi, the packages in the ppa just allow adding fcitx input methods the same way that ibus ones can be added
<seb128> pitti, you can edit /usr/share/upstart/session/indicator-network.conf and change the "xubuntu-touch" to "xunity8-mir" and "start indicator-network" then
<pitti> seb128: is there a way to get a terminal under Mir?
<pitti> we apparnetly don't install terminal-app, or gnome-terminal
<attente> seb128: we still need the bugzilla patch to vala though
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> pitti, bregma has one, I think he rebuilt the click for amd64 or something
<seb128> attente, Laney is on that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey! how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any idea when you webbrowser-app on unity8-mir-desktop fix is going to land?
<chrisccoulson> the unity8 fixes were going to be in the next release (ie, not the current 1.0 release which is also being pushed to trusty shortly)
<chrisccoulson> I guess I could backport them, but they depend on other changes as well, which is why I've not done it yety
<chrisccoulson> *yet
<bregma> pitti, use the terminal app from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily
<pitti> seb128: in theory, gnome-terminal should even work, no?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is the issue in unity8? I though you said it was in your bindings?
<pitti> seb128: or does vte not get along with Mir?
<pitti> bregma: ah, thanks
<seb128> pitti, no it doesn't, we don't even have GTK/Mir landed yet
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that's right
<seb128> chrisccoulson, which one is right?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the fixes are in oxide
<chrisccoulson> although the bug is caused by missing features in the mir egl backend in mesa ;)
<bregma> chrisccoulson, is there a bug files against Mir?  This is a major blocker for unity 8 on desktop
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you plan to land those fixes soon?
<seb128> pitti, oh, other desktop-next issue... what do you think we should do with langpacks there? use the touch ones?
<pitti> seb128: if we intend this to allow installing debs, they should get the full ones IMHO
<seb128> pitti, but are the "full ones" going to include things like the dialer or messaging app that are for unity8 only?
<pitti> seb128: yes, they already do
<seb128> k
<seb128> pitti, btw, you getting the text plymouth logo is because the ubuntu-logo is not seeded (we started from the touch seed and they don't use plymouth there because it has issues on the phone stack)
<seb128> I'm going to seed that one
<pitti> seb128: ah, thakns
<seb128> I just looked at that a bit earlier
<seb128> yw!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, they'll end up in the archive when we branch from trunk again (ie, when the next chrome release happens). I guess they could be applied as a distro patch to utopic, but I've not applied them to the current 1.0 release branch as they depend on 2 other disruptive patches and we're close to pushing this out as a security update to trusty
<chrisccoulson> ie, the 4 changesets to make it work in unity 8 really also depend on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~oxide-developers/oxide/oxide.trunk/revision/587 and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~oxide-developers/oxide/oxide.trunk/revision/586 to apply cleanly
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know when the next branching from trunk is likely to happen?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, quite soon according to http://www.chromium.org/developers/calendar
<chrisccoulson> it says this week, but I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that sounds fine, I just wanted to make sure it's not "going to take ages before flowing back to distro"
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it won't take ages :)
<Laney> hey
<seb128> Laney, wb!
<Laney> cheers!
<Laney> attente: yo, how's it going?
<Laney> did you fix the line I pointed out?
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<seb128> kenvandine, how are you?
<seb128> kenvandine, do you have some free slots to discuss online account plugin packaging issues?
<attente> Laney: hey, thanks, i proposed it here: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/indicator-keyboard/use-get-state-instead, but it still needs the upstream vala patch
<Laney> ya
<Laney> lemme just put my workarounded version up
<mterry> seb128, after this landing, I'm inclined to consider turning on the wizard -- any objections?
<seb128> mterry, I need to do another round of testing, but no objection in principle no
<mterry> seb128, cool.  And yeah, we'd probs have extra testing before flipping that switch
<seb128> mterry, ok, so ... could you bump your changelog to 0.3? ;-)
<nessita> didrocks, hola! hangout link added to the invite
<mterry> seb128, looking
<didrocks> nessita: hey, excellent ! fetching :)
<seb128> mterry, thanks, and sorry about that
<seb128> mterry, in fact we had the mp in a previous silo, and we reconfigured keeping the ppa, so we had the version bumped in that landing
<seb128> mterry, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/0.2+14.10.20140612-0ubuntu1
<seb128> mterry, so we need to bump to 0.3 this time
<mterry> seb128, ok, merged from trunk and bumped version
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<Saviq> seb128, charles, do we have an update on the session indicator for logging out?
<seb128> Saviq, charles said earlier that he should have a fix today
<Saviq> oh great
<seb128> Saviq, I was pondering giving the silo back otherwise
<charles> Saviq, I'm the holdup there. Fix should be today, as seb128 said
<seb128> but let's see how that goes
<Saviq> I'll rebuild unity8 there then, since we've landed things in between
<seb128> Saviq, thanks
<seb128> Saviq, btw, is suru ever going to land? ;-)
<seb128> larsu, sorry, dropped your question from earlier ... are those gtk changes needed to fix the invisible gtkpopover widgets?
<larsu> seb128: yes
<larsu> seb128: I've linked the branches to the bug
<seb128> larsu, ok, I'm going to backport them then
<seb128> larsu, danke
<larsu> seb128: actually, there'd be an easier fix, but I thought I'd do it right
<seb128> larsu, what happens if we land the theme fix before the gtk one? does it create any other issue or just doesn't work?
<larsu> thanks!
<larsu> seb128: no other issue. It's just css
<seb128> k
<larsu> the rules won't apply to anything
<seb128> so I'm putting a theme landing with some of the pending fixes as well
<larsu> sounds good to me
<seb128> larsu, should https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/lp1318821/+merge/219351 be deleted or rejected?
<seb128> you just comment disapproved, but it's still in the list
<larsu> should be deleted. I'll mark the branch as abandoned
<larsu> I hope that removes it from the list
<larsu> oh, it already is
<larsu> I'll delete the mr then
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> larsu, I did resubmit the gtk change because gtk/ubuntu is gtk2, gtk/ubuntugtk3 is gtk3, it was targetting the wrong one
<larsu> seb128: I will never get this right :/
<larsu> thanks for fixing it
<seb128> larsu, not your fault, we should probably change those series and made "gtk" the default one and gtk2 the weirdly named one
<didrocks> larsu: I don't want to tell who, but people here who-was-elected-to-be-a-manager-by-the-team used harsh words like "CI Train" bugs where it's a feature for a corner case!
<didrocks> the system even tells you that: 2014-06-12 16:35:56,147 INFO A version in the ppa (0.2+14.10.20140611-0ubuntu1) is higher than the proposed version in bzr (0.1+14.10.20140606-0ubuntu1) (previous tests/builds failing?). Basing on that one.
<didrocks> on https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-001-1-build/77/console, but don't look at who launched that build, it's the same unamed person who dared telling it was a possible bug in MY code! :)
<seb128> lol
<larsu> haha
<seb128> didrocks, be nice, the same someone might manage to find a real bug in your code
<seb128> wouldn't be the first time :p
<didrocks> seb128: I would answer "not my problem anymore", you know, it's completely my behavior :)
<seb128> heh
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, moving here
<kenvandine> hey
<kenvandine> i'll be out for 2 weeks
<seb128> kenvandine, so the issue was that unity8-desktop gets unity-control-center pulled in by libaccount-plugin
<kenvandine> ugh
<seb128> that's because e.g account-plugin-evernote depends on libaccount-plugin
<seb128> could we make that a | u-s-s-o-a?
<seb128> I saw some plugins have that
<kenvandine> most likely...
<seb128> but they ship some qml as well
<seb128> which evernote doesn't do
<kenvandine> i seem to recall some account plugins really needed that
<kenvandine> actually, i don't think so anymore
<kenvandine> the lib provided some of the common oauth stuff
<kenvandine> but that got refactored out
<seb128> so we could just add the | u-s-s-o-a there?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> wb
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> yes, that should be fine
<kenvandine> iirc
<seb128> kenvandine, sorry, hit ctrl-r on the wrong win
<seb128> (hate that)
<seb128> the oauth plugin has the same issue
<seb128> depends on libaccount-plugin-1.0-0
<seb128> which recommends u-c-c
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, you mean account-plugin-google or libaccount-plugin-google ?
<seb128> kenvandine, account-plugin-generic-oauth
<seb128> that depends on libaccount-plugin-1.0-0
<seb128> which recommends unity-control-center-signon
<kenvandine> yeah, ok i think that will work there
<seb128> k, thanks
<kenvandine> np
<tsdgeos> guys, does https://code.launchpad.net/~agateau/libdbusmenu-qt/build-with-clang/+merge/223507 need CI-train'ing to land? or will it just autoland?
<seb128> tsdgeos, it needs a lander, I'm happy to do that
<seb128> tsdgeos, would be nice to batch https://code.launchpad.net/~agateau/libdbusmenu-qt/define-include-dir/+merge/223509 with it
<tsdgeos> seb128: yeah, i'm waiting on someone with enough autority to ok the cmake version increase :D
<tsdgeos> i was thinking on Pete
<tsdgeos> since he is the one with the last two commits in there
<seb128> tsdgeos, can you maybe ping him then?
<tsdgeos> but then he's on holiday
<seb128> oh
<tsdgeos> until next week
<tsdgeos> and i'm on holiday next week
<seb128> Saviq, maybe?
<tsdgeos> so it's a bit of a mess :D
<tsdgeos> i'd say he's busy with more important things
<seb128> right
<seb128> so either we trust agateau and ack that and land it
<tsdgeos> i kind of am too
<tsdgeos> i'm just waiting for the phone image to install :D
<seb128> or we land the other fix and delay that other one for another landing
<tsdgeos> seb128: it does work, i've tried it, it's just if we're ok with dependeing in a newer cmake, i guess we are since we're shipping it
<seb128> k
<tsdgeos> so i'll approve i guess
<seb128> let me approve it
<seb128> we can always revert later if that's an issue
<tsdgeos> cool
<tsdgeos> tx
<seb128> yw
<seb128> mterry_, congrats on landing the wizard binary ;-)
<mterry_> seb128, haha, thanks for your help
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> calling it a day
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
<seb128> see you tomorrow
 * didrocks does the same
<didrocks> see you guys :)
<Laney> these continentals clocking off early!
<robert_ancell> desrt, around?
<desrt> robert_ancell: hi
<robert_ancell> desrt, I'm blogging about GTK+ Mir, what's worth saying about the jhbuild stuff?
<desrt> that mir is available and we're setup for when the branch lands
<desrt> which is really the more interesting question
<desrt> when do you think we should land the branch?
<desrt> might make sense to land some initial version of it and keep working in the branch?
<desrt> or switch over to master development entirely?
<desrt> if you feel ready, we should start discussing that ...
<robert_ancell> desrt, I guess it matters more how upstream feels about it - the branch is not particularly useful as it is, but that might not matter
<robert_ancell> And it works better for us to be based off 3.12 because that's how we'll ship it
<desrt> i suspect gtk won't care very much
<robert_ancell> So we would need to maintain two branches
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> one thing that will not happen: landing the backend onto the existing stable branch :)
<larsu> because how would we know which Since: tag to put on there...
<desrt> larsu: :)
<robert_ancell> well, yes
<robert_ancell> desrt, can we get jhbuild to build from a branch?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> but if we want to take that approach then we should probably backport the mir setp to the gnome-3-12 jhbuild modulesets
<desrt> since it builds everything out of 3.12....
<robert_ancell> It sounds like it would make most sense to have jhbuild automatically testing against our 3.12 branch, then after 14.10 move development to master and bring the updates into ubuntu as we update GTK+
<robert_ancell> and have jhbuild testing from trunk from then on
<desrt> this is a bit odd
<desrt> our intention is to maintain this upstream
<desrt> but we lag upstream by enough that we're going to want to be doing manual merges of all the work we're doing there
<robert_ancell> desrt, I just mean we wait one cycle before moving to master
<desrt> we're going to have to do the work one way or the other, so why don't we just do it the usual way?  (ie: backporting)
<robert_ancell> because there is likely to be significant changes required to backport if the GDK api changes
<desrt> last time i checked, that wasn't the case
<desrt> although i guess it's going to be getting worse this cycle...
<robert_ancell> exactly
<robert_ancell> And right now it's better to get it working well before tackling those changes
<desrt> fair enough
<robert_ancell> desrt, so I was going to say "we have support in jhbuild for Mir so we can automatically test our changes going forward" (+ a link to the git commit). Anything else worth mentioning?
<desrt> not particularly
<robert_ancell> mkay
<desrt> thanks :)
<robert_ancell> desrt, oh, I had another question you might know the answer to - is there a reason why we don't have a pam-xdg that starts the session bus etc rather than using Xsession?
<desrt> because the way we do it now was the easiest way?
<desrt> this is going to be fixed by systemd soon....
<desrt> the bus will be at a well-known path relative to the xdg runtime dir and will be demand-activated
<robert_ancell> desrt, so it will be controlled by logind?
<robert_ancell> desrt, and I was wondering if that would mean we have a bus for text logins and if that's a good/bad thing
<desrt> robert_ancell: by systemd, not logind
<robert_ancell> desrt, there must be some interaction with logind to only allow session busses for each active session
<desrt> robert_ancell: of course.... the xdg runtime dir doesn't even exist unless logind says it does
<desrt> but it will be systemd holding the other end of the socket
<robert_ancell> which part of systemd - init?
<desrt> the session systemd instance
<robert_ancell> ah
<robert_ancell> k
<desrt> X-Ubuntu-Touch=true ?
 * desrt mumbles
<desrt> would be better to expose this as an interface...
<robert_ancell> desrt, that's how it is now
<desrt> ifuncs are ruining my life :(
<desrt> calling getenv() from inside of them appears to be a great way to confuse the libc into crashing
<desrt> the sick thing is that i bet i could get away with opening /proc/self/environ and parsing it
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-19
<lucidfox> Anyone knows why Chromium 35 is not in Ubuntu yet, and when to expect it?
<didrocks> morning
<larsu> salut
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<BigWhale> Are there any API's in Gnome to detect USB changes?
<BigWhale> Devices connected and disconnected?
<TheMuso> BigWhale: Thats udisks.
<TheMuso> afaik anyway.
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<BigWhale> Hey didrocks! :)
<BigWhale> TheMuso, Hmm, this seems like something that deals mainly with discs.
<BigWhale> err, storage devices. :)
<BigWhale> I'd like to detect whether a USB camera was connected.
<BigWhale> And I'm pretty sure this was already done somewhere. :)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> hey TheMuso
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> hello BigWhale, how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: tu as encore mangÃ© des fraises aujourd'hui ?
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! was a nice half-work half-family day yesterday
<didrocks> great ;)
<pitti> didrocks: pas encore, mais je vais manger le petite-dejeuner en quelques minutes, avec des fraises :)
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ©, bon appÃ©tit !
<pitti> merci !
<BigWhale> pitti, hey! Doing excellent. Finally found time to show some love for Ubuntu. :)
<TheMuso> BigWhale: Sorry, I misread your query, and thought you were talking about disks.
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
 * larsu wants fraises as well
<larsu> morning everyone :)
<mvo> goog morning
<didrocks> hey mvo ;)
<RAOF> BigWhale: libgudev will get you various notificationy things, libgusb will get you usb-y things.
<BigWhale> RAOF, thanks, I'll look into it.
<RAOF> If you're specifically after cameraing, gphoto might be what you're after, but I don't know if that handles hotplug detection also.
<BigWhale> RAOF, I'm working on webcam features for Kazam and I just need to detect if something happened on USB, so I can fire up camera detection.
<RAOF> gudev would totally do that for you.
<RAOF> 1) Set up udev monitor for the âusbâ subsystem, 2) profit!
<pitti> hey mvo, gugen Morgen :)
<pitti> BigWhale: right, lib(g)udev, watch for "usb" subsystem and pick out the ones with ID_GPHOTO=1
<pitti> gvfs' gphoto2 monitor does that, in case you need a working example
<BigWhale> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/gudev/GUdevClient.html#GUdevClient-uevent
<BigWhale> This looks promising.
<BigWhale> My buttons will appear and disappear automagically! :>
<mvo> hey pitti and didrocks, good morning
<pitti> BigWhale: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/tree/monitor/gphoto2/ggphoto2volumemonitor.c#n379 FYI
<BigWhale> pitti, yes, thanks. I'm already testing this.
<BigWhale> wow, there's even video4linux subsytem. <3
<Laney> hey
<didrocks> morning Laney
<pitti> hello Laney
<Laney> hey pitti et didrocks
<Laney> how goes?
<pitti> quite fine, thanks! Just ran my first click package test with adt-run :)
<didrocks> Laney: I'm good, thanks! Yourself?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Laney didrocks pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<Laney> not bad!
<Laney> gave blood last night to finish up the 8 week interval trial i've been on
<didrocks> salut seb128
 * Laney is drained
<didrocks> in the night? They don't let you after 1PM hereâ¦
<Laney> open until 19.30 on some days
<pitti> Laney: which trial? how much blood they can get out of you before you collapase? :/
<didrocks> waow, nice
 * didrocks would love that, would be easier to give blood
<Laney> pitti: trying to increase the allowed frequency
<seb128> Laney, did you go climbing after that? ;-)
<Laney> http://www.intervalstudy.org.uk/about-the-study/why-is-it-important/
<pitti> Laney: ah, it's 12 weeks here
<Laney> haha
<Laney> yeah, 12 for men and 16 for women is standard I think
<Laney> but they have a problem with not enough donors
<Laney> so pumping the existing people for more blood is one solution ...
<pitti> and I have enough trouble getting enough iron with 12 :)
<Laney> haha, somehow that doesn't surprise me ;-)
<pitti> Laney: did they give you iron pills?
<Laney> seb128: definitely not, I went home and had okonomiyaki and then cookie dough ice cream ;-)
<Laney> nope
<pitti> yummy
<Laney> you're supposed to get it from your normal diet
<didrocks> okonomiyaki \o/
<didrocks> mvo: see, I'm not the only one ^
<mvo> didrocks: haha
<mvo> yeah!
<didrocks> mvo: tell me once you have experienced some :)
<mvo> not yet, no :)
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> what do you need to experience?
<mvo> seb128: hey !
<mvo> seb128: okonomiyaki
<seb128> oh, I should too, though I just googled for it and it doesn't look too appealing to me
<pitti> looks quite nice to me -- is that veggie?
<Laney> ours doesn't look very authentic judging by the google images ...
<seb128> seems veggie yes
<Laney> not necessarily but you choose what to put in so it can be
 * pitti waves, bbl
<pitti> mvo: you don't have a national holiday today?
<seb128> though they have variants with fish or meat
<seb128> pitti, holiday for you?
<seb128> pitti, enjoy!
<pitti> mvo: it's "Fronleichnam" for the catholic states (but I'm working half-day today and half-day yesterday)
<pitti> seb128: well, I'm in Dresden to visit my grandma, she's really in a bad condition
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> pitti, good luck with that then
<pitti> thus I'm working short days with interruptions, and compensate by working today
<pitti> which works out quite nicely
<pitti> seb128: merci
 * didrocks hugs pitti, good luck
<seb128> Laney, what's the status of that vala issue?
<Laney> oh
<Laney> uploaded it to unstable
<Laney> did it sync?
<seb128> let me check, syncs are not on -changes
<seb128> yes
<Laney> oh man, build status looks pretty bad
<seb128> it ftbfsed on i386 and some others though
<Laney> might have to give that another go ...
<seb128> one test failing
<Laney> yeah it's this one
<Laney> guess my fix didn't work everywhere
<Laney> but there's an upstream patch for this now
<Laney> so let me take that, sec
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> pitti: yeah, its a pulic holiday but I swaped it with tomorrow
<mvo> pitti: my sister will visit me tomorrow :)
<seb128> Saviq, hey, just as a fyi, charles fixed indicator-session but apparently untiy8 doesn't respond to the logout request, just fwd you his email if you are interested in details
<Saviq> seb128, heh :|
<Laney> buh
<Laney> what was the trick to get around broken vala bootstrapping?
<Laney> pitti: you had some fun with some time last year, do you remember?
<mpt> xnox, hey, remember <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiskWarnings>?
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala-0.18/0.18.1-0ubuntu9 and previous entries?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> is it 'include the updated C sources, touch that .stamp file'?
<seb128> the diff touch the .c as well
<ari-tczew> hey, is gnome 3.12 going to be default in utopic?
<seb128> ari-tczew, no, default is Unity
<Laney> phew
<Laney> glad someone had this problem before me
<seb128> the vala one?
<seb128> did that worked?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> looks promising
 * Laney is a dwarf standing on the shoulders of pittis
<ari-tczew> seb128: so can we do syncs/merges/upgrades versions 3.12 of gnome-related packages?
<seb128> ari-tczew, no
<ari-tczew> seb128: why?
<seb128> ari-tczew, you can for things not using GtkHeaderBar/CSD, read logs from this channels or ubuntu-desktop lists for details, that has been covered quite a few times
<seb128> tedg, charles: hey, why is indicator-transfer build-depending on dbus?
<tedg> seb128, I believe so that it can use it as part of the test environment?
<tedg> seb128, Is it directly, or just through dbus-test-runner?
<seb128> tedg, it has a build-depends on "dbus", which seems a bit weird, I though it would get it through dbus if that's what needs dbus
<seb128> tedg, charles: "Vcs-Browser: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-transfer/trunk.13.04/files", also, that url is invalid
<seb128> tedg, charles: those are my only nitpick, looks good for NEW otherwise, I'm going to accept it
<seb128> pitti, I binNEWed the touch langpacks that were in the utopic queue
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<seb128> yw!
<tedg> seb128, Cool, I'll do an MR to fix them, but we'll wait for a silo with something else to merge it.
<seb128> tedg, sure, that can be fixed later
<seb128> tedg, charles: is the indicator supposed to work/show under unity7?
<tedg> seb128, No
<seb128> :-(
<tedg> seb128, It requires custom IDO widgets. We've talked about it, but hard to prioritize doing.
<seb128> oh ok, that makes sense
<seb128> using the loader I can at least see the "idle" changing to "1 active" when running the simple download test
<charles> seb128, I'm still doing coding on i-transfer, I'll update the (1) dbus dependency and (2) Vcs-Browser line in the next MR
<charles> seb128, thanks for the suggestions
<seb128> charles, yw, and ted said he's going to MR the changes, so check with him to not duplicate work
<charles> tedg, ^
<tedg> charles, Check your mail :-)
<charles> tedg, ack
<seb128> tedg, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/indicator-network/use-in-unity8-sessions/+merge/223748 ... wdyt?
<tedg> seb128, Seems good to me. I'd say we need something better, but really it's just short term until "Unity" is something consistent.
<seb128> tedg, right, or until we use the new indicator in unity7
<Laney> what about unity8-x11?
<seb128> Laney, is that still a thing?
<Laney> also s/&&/-a/, no?
<Laney> there's still a package for it at least
<seb128> Laney, is "&&" incorrect ... my sh scriptiong is not good, is that wrong syntax (seems to work locally)
<Laney> pretty sure
<Laney> see man test
<Laney> you can do [ ... ] && [ ... ] though
<charles> tedg (& seb128): approved, thanks ;)
<seb128> charles, thanks
<seb128> Laney, can you wrap shell lines?
<seb128> like do
<seb128> [ ... ] &&
<seb128>  [ ... ] &&
<seb128>  [ ... ]
<seb128> ?
<charles> hmm, I wonder if there's a better way to do things like this so that we don't wind up with #ifdef-level code all over the place
<charles> https://code.launchpad.net/~445865575-b/indicator-session/indicatorForKylin/+merge/223664
<Laney> seb128: should work
<Laney> urgh
<Laney> I hate that renaming of Ubuntu to Ubuntu Kylin everywhere
<Laney> maybe they should divert /etc/os-release or something
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/indicator-network/use-in-unity8-sessions/+merge/223748 looks good to you?
<charles> seb128, any thoughts on that Kylin string question?
<charles> maybe I'm making too much of it, but my first thought is if we don't do this better, there will be patches like that all through our repos
<seb128> charles, what laney said, use NAME from /etc/os-release and get Kylin to change that
<seb128> like "%s Help", NAME
<seb128> happyaron, FJKong: do you if Kylin change its /etc/os-release?
<happyaron> seb128: Kylin does not change it atm
<Laney> seb128: yeah that'll work
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> Laney, I tested locally and it works in unity7 and 8 session (does respectively the right thing)
<Laney> seb128: you could do ${DESKTOP_SESSION##unity8-} = ${DESKTOP_SESSION} to match all unity8- sessions at once
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> sh is fun
<seb128> lol, I'm having something working, I don't touch it
<Laney> like if there's a unity8-wayland ever
<seb128> happyaron, do you know if they discussed change it?
<Laney> * hell freezes over
<happyaron> seb128: they didn't
<happyaron> seb128: they added a file, /etc/ubuntukylin-release, for identifying Kylin systems.
<Laney> it means that programs have to special case kylin though
<seb128> happyaron, well, that forces code to special case rather than just reading os-release
<happyaron> seb128: they want to keep compatibility with Ubuntu as much as possible, so that all program that do OS checking can identify it as Ubuntu, except those ones can recognize the additional indication of Kylin flavor.
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> they want to be Ubuntu but not be flagged as Ubuntu at the same time
<happyaron> that's it
<Laney> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/os-release.html
<Laney> I think that NAME is for presentation
<seb128> Laney, so, tell me about vala in utopic?
<Laney> -5 is in unstable
<seb128> waiting for the next autosync to get it?
<Laney> just for LP to see it, can manually sync then
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> feel free to upload if you want it now
<seb128> no hurry, just make sure it's in the pipes
<seb128> tomorrow is fine
<Laney> the series of tubes is clear
<Laney> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=vala-0.24&suite=unstable
<seb128> Mirv, hey, do you know if there is a bug somewhere discussing changing the default qt version from qt4 to qt5?
<seb128> Mirv, is "install qt5-default" the right way currently to make it default? (that pulls in a bunch of dev binaries that don't seem needed to change the default)
<mdeslaur> tedg: happy birthday :)
<tedg> mdeslaur, Ha, thanks!
<seb128> oh
<seb128> tedg, happy birthday!
<Mirv> seb128: man qtchooser explains the different way of setting it, ie environment variable, a parameter for the tool etc. qt5-default installs a config file that makes qt5 default if not overridden
<seb128> Mirv, thanks ... what about having qt5 default? was that discussed before?
<Mirv> seb128: no, setting either as system wide default default has not been discussed, other than it's done via /etc/environment on the phone/tablet
<seb128> Mirv, where would be the right place to start that discussion?
<seb128> Mirv, context is that the current unity8-desktop issue fails to start qml apps because it's looking in qt4 directories
<seb128> Mirv, we need to resolve that one way or another, trying to figure out which way is best, hacking the environment doesn't seem great
<Mirv> seb128: everything goes through qtchooser, so it depends on which method seems less ugly. the default.conf symlink from qt5-default in a leaner package would be one option if environment variable seems too ugly, if it's ok to deviate from Debian in that matter
<seb128> Mirv, is Debian going to default to qt5 one day?
<Mirv> seb128: currently the fallback is to Qt 4, the fallback might be set to Qt 5 some day
<seb128> Mirv, there must be a way to have qml apps working out of the box, I can't believe that debian is fine with "install an app, try to run it from its .desktop, have that fail because it looks to the wrong qt"
<didrocks> and 20 more tests today, not a bad day \o/
<seb128> or maybe the .desktop should call to a different binary?
<Mirv> seb128: qmlscene is a developer tool not recommended to be used in production, according to documentation :P
<seb128> Mirv, do you know if we plan to replace it before rtm/this cycle?
<Mirv> seb128: there have been discussions about it for 1.5 years, but nothing has ever materialized ie. it has continued to work well enough so that no-one has bothered to write "ubuntuscene"
<Mirv> so I doubt it'll change
<seb128> k
<seb128> so we need to somewhat make qmlscene work
<seb128> Mirv,  would it make sense to email ubuntu-devel@ about it to get the discussion going?
<Mirv> seb128: possibly, some people have become allergic to the topic however :D
<Mirv> but the SDK team does know about it, you might ping Zoltan next week when he's back
<seb128> Mirv, well, as you said, Debian has the same issue
<didrocks> not sure that "being allergic to a topic" is a good reason to ignore the issue and not fix it :)
<seb128> so it seems rather a distro one that a sdk one
<seb128> I feel like I'm going to get more consensus from a devel discussion that from talking to Zoltan
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, not going to stop me in any ca
<seb128> case
<didrocks> seb128: for your demo at the sprint when I was looking about it with mvo, I installed qt5-default IIRC
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I did that earlier, but it brings a stack of libdev binaries
<seb128> Depends: qtbase5-dev...
<didrocks> I didn't pay attention to that, I just tried to have your laptop working, but it doesn't seem rightâ¦
<seb128> I don't want that on the iso
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's working, I can confirm it ;-)
<Mirv> yeah it seems a distro one and a bit complex from the aspects that 1) it works, 2) funnily, it's a very very small tool that essentially just does "load this QML", 3) 'qmlscene' usage is spread out through the system, 4) we might want to write our own (we=who?), 5) there's even another similar binary now called just 'qml', introduced in Qt 5.2
<seb128> but yeah, wrong way
<didrocks> maybe we should have qt5-default and qt5-default-dev
<didrocks> as setting the runtime and dev environment are different matters
<didrocks> and the list of deps would be different then
<seb128> Mirv, well, my issues is that we have apps that don't work once installed, you click on their desktop and they fail because they look into the wrong directory, so those packages need fixing, the solution might be to code the path to the binary I don't know
<Mirv> seb128: all of the apps could also call qmlscene like "qmlscene -qt5", problem solved
<didrocks> the issue is that if you then install any app and the default isn't correctly setâ¦
<Mirv> (one option of how to use qtchooser)
<Mirv> it's just all apps need to be patched
<Mirv> or there could be an alias...
<tedg> seb128, Thanks!
<seb128> is the rational that those apps are qml ones and can work with either qt4 or qt5?
<didrocks> yeah, either qmlscene-qt5 or qmlscene5â¦ if there is no backward compatibility of qmlscene between 5 and 4â¦
<seb128> but that's not even true, the format changes and they use 5 apis
<seb128> didrocks, right
<didrocks> seb128: I wonder if qml with qt 4 (qtquick 1) works with qml with qt5
<Mirv> if QML app is written in Qt Quick 1, it works with both Qt 4 and 5. Quick 2 is only supported in Qt 5
<didrocks> maybeâ¦
<didrocks> and that would be the reason
<didrocks> so, why not qmlscene is shipped with conflicts: replaces the Qt 4 version? (as you can load it with Qt 5)
<didrocks> if you install the Qt5 version and it's compatible with the previous Qt 4 version, just let the new one replace the old one if you install Qt 5 on top of Qt 4 (for those binaries, not the libs of course)
<seb128> yeah, I don't know enough about the specifics there to have an opinion
<seb128> that would work I guess
<Laney> good evening!
<seb128> Laney, to you too!
<seb128> happy climbing? ;-)
<czajkowski> seb128: meeting --> over there
<seb128> czajkowski, thanks
<Laney> good guess
<Laney> yeah sorry I'm leaving before this meeting
<Laney> you can handle it!
<seb128> trying to
<seb128> let's see how that goes ;-)
<seb128> Laney, have fun, see you tomorrow!
 * czajkowski promises to be nice if you fix her bug :)
<Laney> czajkowski: hopefully someone DMBish turns up
<seb128> lol
<czajkowski> Laney: if not we'll just keep talking to poor old seb128
<thedoctor_> gay <<
<thedoctor_> some ppl are touchy
<czajkowski> see seb128 is still alive
<seb128> lol
<seb128> the CC indeed doesn't eat contributors ;-)
<czajkowski> now if we could just fix the wee bug I hit daily especially on planes where I need to shut down machine and it restarts my life would be easier :)
<seb128> kernel issue?
<czajkowski> yeah known for a long time
<Laney> czajkowski: do a catch up with the kernel team? ^o)
<czajkowski> Laney: not a bad idea
<stgraber> hey, so I'm still working on that unity8 in lxc stuff and I'm currently getting the following error when attempting to start unity8 as it is inside the latest desktop next image:
<stgraber> Ubuntu Platform API: Unable to find module configuration file -- Aborting
<stgraber> does that ring a bell to anyone?
<Laney> not me
<Laney> I'd ask ricmm
<bregma> stgraber, are all your qtubuntu packages up-to-date?
<stgraber> bregma: should be, the container is based on whatever was in the desktop-next image that I downloaded 10min ago
<bregma> it sounds like a recent change to do with sensors might have caused that -- which is a ricmm thing
<stgraber> oh, there are a bunch of available updates, let me apply those quickly. If that does the trick, I'll respin the desktop-next iso and retry from scratch.
<stgraber> bregma: no change after a dist-upgrade. I guess I'll have to try and catch ricmm then
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-20
<TheMuso> Laney: Is there plans to add a terminal to ubuntu-desktop-next, or is there already one there that I don't know about?
<TheMuso> Laney: Other than the VTs of course.
<pitti> Good morning
<Sweet5hark1> pitti: Moin!
<pitti> hey Sweet5hark1, wie gehts?
<Sweet5hark1> great, last day before vacation. ;)
<didrocks> hey Sweet5hark1, pitti!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
 * pitti toddles off to catch his train back home
<Sweet5hark1> though there is one thing weird right now, and I dont understand that: I just wanted to verify the libreoffice 4.2.4-0ubuntu2 package as is in proposed, so I enabled proposed on a trusty VM and I get all the nice new packages -- _except_ the libreoffice metapackage.
<Sweet5hark1> The package looks fine on LP and when I download the metapackage manually from the web UI it installs without a problem.
<Sweet5hark1> pitti, didrocks: any idea how that can be?
<pitti> Sweet5hark1: what does "apt-cache policy" say for a binary package of that metapackage?
 * pitti has to leave, bbl
<Sweet5hark1> pitti: see ya
<didrocks> see you pitti
<didrocks> Sweet5hark1: let me have a look
<Sweet5hark1> doh
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: I found the reason. Stupid me of course ;)
<didrocks> (but yeah, do the apt-cache policy trick)
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> what was it?
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: I keep forgetting that some of the binary packages are in universe only -- and I only added -proposed for main. So I had ~all the fancy new libreoffice packages, except for the two or three that are not in main _including_ the libreoffice metapackage.
<didrocks> ahah ;)
<didrocks> so yeah
<pitti> Sweet5hark1: ah, hah!
<Sweet5hark1> pitti: ;)
<BigWhale> Good Mroning everyone.
<BigWhale> also, good morning!
<didrocks> morning BigWhale
<Sweet5hark1> cd saucy-source && the funky bunch
<seb128> good morning desktopers, happy friday!
<didrocks> salut seb128
<Laney> hey hey
<Laney> happy friday!
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> TheMuso: I guess when we get clicks we can add the terminal-app there
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> how goes?
<didrocks> I'm great, thanks! Yourself?
<Laney> doing good
<seb128> hey Laney didrocks
<Laney> it looks sunny
<seb128> how was climbing?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> quite nice, managed to get a new competition route
<Laney> then back to watch something on tv, can't quite remember what it was though
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> football? your team was playing
<Laney> nope, doesn't ring any bells...
 * Laney whistles
<seb128> lol
<larsu> haha
 * larsu is happy that he gets the reference
<Laney> :)
 * larsu read the news
<larsu> also the game was running on a tv at the restaurant we ate at yesterday - but I didn't keep track of the score
<seb128> larsu, that game didn't happen apparently, if anyone mention it, just look in the other direction and whistle
 * larsu looks in the other direction and whistles
<seb128> ;-)
 * Laney creates a distraction
<Laney> hey
<Laney> so GtkHeaderBar is cool, right?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> oh, new vala is in utopic
<larsu> Laney: cool?
<seb128> let's see if indicator-keyboard is happier
<seb128> larsu, let's not start troll friday yet
<Laney> haha
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> new qt got in too
<larsu> it did?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> 5.3 is in utopic
<seb128> let's see if gsettings-qt still works
<larsu> haha, that's what I was thinking about as well
 * larsu tries
<larsu> apt-cache policy libqt<tab><tab>
<larsu> Display all 205 possibilities? (y or n)
<larsu> that's a lot of libsâ¦
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> libqt5core5a
<seb128> is the qt one
<seb128> if that's what you are after
<didrocks> pay attention that you will be on the very edge, it migrated some hours ago :)
<larsu> where's the difference between the 5a and the 5 one?
<larsu> 5a is on 5.2.1, 5 on 5.02
<larsu> 5.0.2
<didrocks> larsu: ABI breakage in 5.2
<larsu> ugh
<didrocks> on armhf
<larsu> didrocks: thanks
<didrocks> yw ;)
 * larsu waits to get the new one 
<didrocks> that's why the 5.2 transition was "hard"
<didrocks> larsu: you shouldn't have libqt5core5 anymore
<seb128> larsu, you should have it available ... or are you on a mirror?
<larsu> no
<larsu> didrocks: I do, though
<larsu> oh wait, local
<didrocks> larsu: apt-cache policy ?
 * larsu removes
<didrocks> ok
<larsu> I wonder where that comes from...
<larsu> clean-up-your-system-Friday
<didrocks> well, if you used the sdk ppa, they did some packaging errors
<didrocks> on the 5.2 transition
<didrocks> and forgot some conflicts that I added later on when I reviewed that for the archive
<didrocks> and the conflicts version was cleaned up to not take care about people using "on the edge"
<didrocks> (as the version was wrong as well there :/)
<seb128> ok, clean up indeed
 * seb128 cleans 882M of old kernels
<seb128> one day we are going to clean those automatically for users rather than letting them stack...
<larsu> is that the reason why I still have the 5.0 package in /var/lib/dpkg/status?
<Laney> doesn't u-m run autoremove?
<seb128> Laney, well, for some reasons those don't get marked for autoremoval here ... and I don't think it does, but I might be wrong
<Laney> they're meant to
<Laney> that was a slangasek thing
<didrocks> yeah, they are for me
<larsu> ah, new qt5 after upgrade - seems like my update this morning was too early :)
<didrocks> larsu: right, seems the transition wasn't fully handled/right
<didrocks> larsu: see the phone ML
<didrocks> rsalveti had to rebuild qtbase to unblock that
<Laney> the symbols file was a bit wrong
<didrocks> yeah, I wonder how that built in the siloâ¦
<Laney> it did build
<Laney> just made things have wrong deps
 * Laney removes oxideqt-dbg, gains nearly 2G!
<didrocks> oh, it wasn't a FTBFS issue, just a version in the symbols (I didn't look at the change)
<Laney> it made depends on something-gles on arches where that didn't exist
<Laney> to which britney said NOPE
<didrocks> making sense
 * larsu mucks around with qml import paths again
<larsu> that shit never works for me :/
<tkamppeter> seb128, hi
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<larsu> first problem: qt 5.3 seems to break the example in gsettings-qt
<seb128> shrug
<didrocks> larsu: maybe try other apps to see if everything is failing or not for you?
<larsu> okay, seems to work otherwise
<didrocks> we do have apps or unity8 using gesttings-qt I thinkâ¦ they would have catched it if it would break it badly
<larsu> didrocks: the example breaks with an error unrelated to gsettings (which seem to work fine from quick testing)
<tkamppeter> seb128, it was about the libspectre SRU. but now I have seen, it is all OK.
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, great
<seb128> Laney, stephaneverdy got desktop-next to work on vmware workstation using "mks.gl.allowBlacklistedDrivers = "TRUE"" in his config
<Laney> I tried that
<Laney> with that vmware was hanging my session
<Laney> possibly a nouveau problem
<seb128> could be yes
<seb128> it's working for him it seems
<Laney> nice
 * didrocks is quite happy with this commit and the way to test it: https://github.com/didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center/commit/ac194cb812cb76ea6af417efefc55fc1375a7de1 :)
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<larsu> didrocks: woah, nice test:code ratio
<xnox> didrocks: very nice =)
<xnox> i'm yet to be in possition to use concurrent.futures =)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: oh, forgot that one: 4.2.5 released today (a minute ago or so) and the build (4.2.5~rc2) is already in the ppas too.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, great, rc2 and release are identical I guess?
<didrocks> xnox: it's quite easy, the only puzzling stuff is that the "done" callback is by default on its own thread (in the main process)
<didrocks> hence this helper, as I install a main loop, to ensure I can have my callback executed where I want to :)
<didrocks> seb128: would you have any idea of python3-gi on precise? I don't understand the failure on https://travis-ci.org/didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center/builds/28028326
<didrocks> ImportError: No module named 'gi'
<didrocks> Unpacking python3-gi (from .../python3-gi_3.2.2-1~precise_amd64.deb) ...
<didrocks> so, the apt-get install worked
<didrocks> if you don't have any idea off hands, I'll just setup a precise vm
<seb128> didrocks, you use python3.4, did we build for that version in precise?
<didrocks> ah, good one
<didrocks> that or the virtualenv doesn't use system libs
<didrocks> (which is unfortunately quite needed as pygi isn't in pypi)
<didrocks> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22748528/travis-ci-gobject-introspection
<didrocks> ah, there is an option in travis to set using the system libs
 * didrocks tries
<didrocks> yeah, doesn't workâ¦ need to compile pygi I guess in the virtualenv
<xnox> didrocks: you can rebuild it once in a ppa or some such, and add ppa as a dep to your travis job.
<didrocks> xnox: I've done that for apt, not sure it's python3-gi itself which is broken or something else, but I can give it a tryâ¦
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yep, rc2=final
 * Laney lunch (going to town to buy a last minute birthday card), biab
<seb128> didrocks, hey, maybe you can help, there is no CI lander around, how does one reconfigure a silo to drop a component? ogra_ is trying to do that
<ogra_> seb128, looks like i get it sorted
<didrocks> not sure ogra has the creds to do it, but I can
<seb128> great
<didrocks> ok, good then :)
<ogra_> seems i only need a watch build anyway
<ogra_> (if that doesnt work i'll come back and nag you)
<didrocks> ok, please do :)
 * didrocks will wait for Travis to support trusty
<didrocks> enough time spent on this pygobject not in virtualenv :p
<jdstrand> bregma: hey, fyi bug #1332529
<ubot5> bug 1332529 in unity (Ubuntu) "unable to unlock screen because keyboard grabbed by gcr-prompter (gpg password prompt)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332529
<Laney> didrocks: AIUI core-dev got all permissions recently
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, we discussed that with seb128, I checked that they did it the right way as well :)
<seb128> Laney, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro/trunk/revision/606 is what didrocks pointed at for reference
<Laney> so I think that peopleshould have the permission to reconfigure?
<seb128> that's where the change was made
<Laney> oh is that just for assigning?
<seb128> we already had permissions to reconfigure before
<seb128> that change added permissions to assign
<seb128> which was the restricted action
<Laney> ah
<xnox> seb128: hm, so core-dev can assign silos now?
<seb128> xnox, yes
<xnox> seb128: cool.
<seb128> well, they have the acl
<seb128> not sure it's socially accepted
<xnox> seb128: and are there any docs about citrain somewhere?
<seb128> one reason they organized things with that way was to have some people handling assignments according to available resources and current status of the image
<seb128> not that I know
<ogra_> didrocks, so it didnt work out ...
<didrocks> ogra_: so, what are you trying to do?
<didrocks> (just tell me your use case)
<ogra_> didrocks, i tried to remove ubuntu-touch-session from silo 12
<didrocks> remove == the package or from the spreadsheet?
<didrocks> (package in ppa)
<ogra_> didrocks, i removed the branch from the spreadsheet and did reconfigure ... i also deleted the package from the PPA ...
<didrocks> you shouldn't need to delete the package from the PPA, it does it for you, when you reconfigure
<ogra_> and then did a watch rebuild
<ogra_> it still thinks the ubuntu-touch-session package should be there though
<didrocks> ogra_: do you have the line and the reconfigure your launched?
<ogra_> i only used the UI
<ogra_> no "lines" involved
<didrocks> ogra_: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-012-0-reconfigure/
<didrocks> seems reconfigure failed
<didrocks> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-012-0-reconfigure/6/console
<ogra_> rather seems it didnt even start
<didrocks> ERROR:root:unity-system-compositor was not in the initial list of components for that silo. You can't reconfigure the silo yourself. Please ask the landing team to reconfigure it for you.
<ogra_> ah
<didrocks> but the reconfigure was by stÃ©phane
<ogra_> right
<didrocks> did you really run it?
<ogra_> thats not mine
<didrocks> seems you didn't ;)
<seb128> sometime you need to click twice
<ogra_> well, i clicked the build button
<seb128> on first click jenkins does auth
<seb128> and reload
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> without doing the action
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> let me try that then
<seb128> well, once should be enough now
<seb128> watch the jobs on the left
<didrocks> issues with the sso plugin, RT opened for 2 months now
<seb128> you should have one active
<ogra_> hah
<ogra_> yeah, now it started
<seb128> it worked
<ogra_> yeah
<didrocks> INFO:root:Removing ubuntu-touch-session from ppa and configuration
<didrocks> see :)
<ogra_> it should say "click twice" at the top or some such :P
<didrocks> it's telling you everything!
<didrocks> (it would have removed the package from the PPA if it was still around)
<ogra_> so i guess i need another watch build now ?
<didrocks> just do a watch only build
<didrocks> yep
<ogra_> k
<ogra_> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw ogra_ ;)
 * ogra_ will cheer for france tonight ... as reward for all the french help today :) 
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> ogra_: well, not sure that football as any impact on me, but well :p
<ogra_> haha
<seb128> didrocks wishes they would loose, less noisy people outside ;-)
<didrocks> that's not untrue :)
<ogra_> haha
<seb128> Laney, xnox, mterry: you upstart masters, I need help figuring why unity8-mir is stop/waiting in upstart since today's updates
<seb128> do you know how to debug such things?
<mterry> uh oh
<seb128> if I start it manually it runs fine
<seb128> that's desktop session, and I don't have ubuntu-touch-session installed
<mterry> seb128, what are the start on conditions?
<seb128> mterry, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7674947/
<seb128> start on xsession SESSION=unity8-mir and started dbus
<seb128> that's quite limited, not sure why that wouldn't be valid
<Laney> is dbus started?
<xnox> seb128: what's the status on dbus, and can you check/know if xsession event was ever emitted?
<ogra_> wow, that differs quite a bit from what we have on the phone
<seb128> dbus is start/running process 1776
<xnox> seb128: the latter can be check with e.g. edding a job which does: start on xsession \n exec env
<Laney> try emitting the event manually
<xnox> s/edding/adding/
<seb128> which one? the xsession one?
<Laney> yeah
<ogra_> why didnt you just add the extra "xsession SESSION=unity8-mir" to upstream ?
<ogra_> start on ((xsession SESSION=ubuntu-touch) or (xsession SESSION=ubuntu-touch-surfaceflinger)) and started dbus
<Laney> that comes from bregma's desktop-session package
<Laney> don't know how it came about
<ogra_> you could just replace the surfaceflinger stuff
<seb128> hum
<seb128> "initctl emit xsession SESSION=unity8-mir" ... is that correct syntax?
<seb128> that command "hangs"
<seb128> should it return?
<ogra_> you probably want to "initctl set-env SESSION=unity8-mir" and then "initctl emit xsession"
<Laney> why?
<Laney> the hanging is because something else is trying to start on that condition
<Laney> afaik
<ogra_> dunno if the var is handled the was that seb used it above
<seb128> and failing?
<ogra_> s/was/way/
<Laney> it is, that's how the job does it
<ogra_> k
<Laney> seb128: edit /etc/X11/Xsession.d and change STARTUP to add --verbose at the end
<Laney> then 99x11-common_start to exec $STARTUP >> $HOME/upstart.log or something
<seb128> Laney, xnox: .xsession-errors has "init: process xsession-init pre-start (4464) exit with status 1"
<seb128> (that's translated so wording might not be exact)
<Laney> oh god wait iwath oaiwhtaoih
<seb128> Laney, I bet it doesn't like  [ "$SESSIONTYPE" = "gnome-session" ]
<seb128> if SESSIONTYPE is empty
 * seb128 random guess
<xnox> seb128: *sigh*
<seb128> deleting that line makes it work
<Laney> this is heinous
<seb128> Lannneeeeeeyyy
<xnox> seb128: so we emit an empty var and that is fine with upstart. *sigh*
<Laney> it's not because it's empty
<seb128> but it's that line
<seb128> deleting it makes the session start
<Laney> yes I know
<Laney> it works if you invert the test too
<Laney> make it != and ||
 * seb128 hates scripts
<Laney> needs an || true
<Laney> otherwise set -e fails the script
<seb128> or proper if [ ] ... then
<seb128> rather than [] && magic :p
<didrocks> the proper if won't help for that matters :)
<Laney> xnox: want to fix it directly?
 * didrocks is a lover of [] && magic ;)
<didrocks> even [] && magic || magic2 ;)
<Laney> heheh
<didrocks> just to annoy seb128 :p
<xnox> Laney: i love != || better, but [] && shouldn't fail on set -e
 * xnox checks what we uploaded.
<Laney> false && anything = false
<xnox> right, hence a bad return code. *sigh*
<seb128> xnox, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/178043745/upstart_1.12.1-0ubuntu8_1.12.1-0ubuntu9.diff.gz
<Laney> laney@raleigh> ( [ 0 = 1 ] && true ) || echo "YOU FAIL"                                                                                    ~
<Laney> YOU FAIL
<Laney> it's that
<xnox> yeap, nice hostname by the way.
<xnox> Laney: i'll go with != || combo
<Laney> okay
<seb128> didrocks, if then always helps :p
<Laney> the hostname scheme is university of nottingham student accommodation
 * Laney has raleigh cripps sherwood
<xnox> Laney: very meta, cause i bet they have accomodation nameing scheme as well.
<Laney> those three are 'nottingham things or rich guys that have donated a lot of money to the university'
<desrt> does anyone know how to convince qemu to let me do smp with arm?
<desrt> it seems that the 'versatile' kernel doesn't support any boards that have SMP available in qemu
<desrt> (ie: some versatile boards have smp as supported in qemu, but then the kernel refuses to boot)
<seb128> desrt, you might have better changes to get a reply on that topic on #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> chances
<seb128> Laney, xnox: is one of you going to upload a fixed upstart?
<Laney> xnox said he would do it
<Laney> or at least implied that
<seb128> I've the feeling he's going to say he though you would do it
<Laney> 20/06 16:09:50 <xnox> Laney: i'll go with != || combo
<Laney> that line made me think this
<seb128> makes sense
<seb128> let's wait for him to pong
<xnox> seb128: i will upload it.
<xnox> seb128: just got side-tracked into upgrading my unity8-mir laptop to play around with it.
<xnox> I mean test it =)
<Laney> just HAD to test the flappy bird click app
<Laney> you're a good QA guy
<xnox> Laney: we have flappy bird game in the store?!
<xnox> THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
<Laney> webapp
<xnox> Laney: you don't know what you have done.
<Laney> we might have tried this at the sprint for a while
<Laney> when enabling click on desktop ...
<xnox> lolz
<mdeslaur> seb128: you don't care about virt-manager, right?
<mdeslaur> seb128: re: bug 1332618
<ubot5> bug 1332618 in virt-manager (Ubuntu) "Please demote virt-manager to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332618
<seb128> mdeslaur, no I don't ;-)
<seb128> it's creating menu issue and stuff, can we just drop it? :p
<mdeslaur> seb128: it's in the supported-desktop-extra seed, could you please +1 the bug?&
<mdeslaur> seb128: hey :)
<seb128> mdeslaur, done
<mdeslaur> seb128: we can drop it if I don't need to test security updates anymore :)
<mdeslaur> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> kind of a shame to have no supported virt gui
<Laney> but yeah
 * seb128 uses virtualbox
<seb128> but yeah, in an ideal world we would have resources to support a bit of everything
<Laney> I use virt-manager, initially because it was our supported one
<Laney> now because it works well enough
<Laney> doesn't have fancy resolution scaling though as far as I know, which I do miss a bit
<seb128> does it do 3d?
<mdeslaur> Laney: we're not dropping it, in fact putting it in universe will allow me to update to the latest version of it
<Laney> I know
<Laney> right got to go get a train down south
<Laney> happy weekend!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, same to you!
<seb128> have fun in the south ;-)
 * didrocks continues a little bit offline, meanwhile, good week-end everyone!
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-22
<TheMuso`> Laney: Yeah sounds reasonable.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-15
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti
<Laney> hey hey HEY!
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey pitti, doing good thanks
<Laney> I've been hacking an invading vine back this morning
<Laney> you?
<didrocks> morning Laney!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> Laney: heh -- I regularly do this with ivy
<pitti> quite well indeed, had a nice weekend with lots of sun, BBQ with 9 guests, table tennis, etc
<pitti> I didn't look at my computer at all
<didrocks> re seb128
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128 !
<seb128> pitti, bien ! et toi ?
<seb128> quite a good w.e here, tried padel tennis on saturday, that's fun
<seb128> we also had people over for coffee and some others for dinner yesterday
<seb128> did a bbq as well ;-)
<pitti> summer rocks!
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> err -- l'Ã©tÃ© est grand !
<Laney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallopia_baldschuanica I think it is is this
<Laney> it comes over from the place behind
<Laney> hey didrocks & seb128
<seb128> hey Laney
<Sweet5hark> larsu, desrt, seb128, other gnome hackers: this might possibly be interesting somewhat of interest to you wrt native gtk3 rendering libreoffice stuff: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/GSoC-Integrating-LO-with-GNOME-WR-3-td4151574.html
<Sweet5hark> (or something to hint other gnome guys at, that might find it interesting)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, nice
<seb128> Sweet5hark, do you know what integration with gnome-documents it's refering to?
<larsu> Sweet5hark: yeah I read about this some time back. Nice that it is happening!
<seb128> oh, a larsu
<seb128> larsu, hey ;-)
<larsu> hi seb128 :)
<Laney> hola amigo
<Sweet5hark> seb128: abstract of the GSOC "Today, GNOME Documents spawns LibreOffice via a rather unreliable  unoconv command-line that converts documents to PDF. It is not only  unreliable but also the results are not good, for example, spreadsheet  rendering results are quite bad.   With this project, we would be improving the existing libreofficekit  based gtk tiled renderer, which would, then, be a very good replacement  of the unreliable unoco
<Sweet5hark> As GSOCs go, I didnt want to make too much noise about that too early, but the student seems to make good progress.
<desrt> so it's a gtk-based library for rendering libreoffice docs?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, k
<desrt> sounds pretty cool :)
<Sweet5hark> desrt: libreofficekit is a general API for rendering a part/a view of anything libreoffice can read. This GSOC is glueing that to gnome documents.
<desrt> in any case, good morning, all
<desrt> ottawa was lovely
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> i was oddly popular
<didrocks> good morning desrt
<desrt> hi seb and didrocks :)
<larsu> hi desrt
<larsu> what's canadian pizza?
<desrt> usually that's just a set of toppings, like 'hawaiian' or so
<desrt> usually involves pepperoni, green peppers and mushrooms
<larsu> weird. We walked by a place yesterday that purports to sell canadian pizza
<larsu> should have looked at their menu
<desrt> huh
<desrt> didn't know that it was a "thing"
<larsu> me neither
<desrt> maybe they just make it in a style that's very similar to what you'd find here
<desrt> like a pizza pizza copy or something
<larsu> this is their website: http://ron-telesky.de/
<desrt> (which is probably the most distinctly canadian pizza company around... most of the others are either american chains, or very clearly copying one american style or another)
<desrt> oh.  of course.
<desrt> canadian pizza is pizza eaten while looking at a large picture of a caribou
<larsu> https://goo.gl/maps/zW9ll
<larsu> also drank a sam adams. in berlin. can you imagine?!?
<desrt> cool :)
<larsu> (faina had a moosehead and disliked)
<desrt> little bit of north american love going on over there
<desrt> that's too bad
<desrt> moosehead is best to drink outdoors on hot summers days
<larsu> I don't like it either
<larsu> but she compared it to carlsberg
<desrt> it doesn't really work in other contexts
<larsu> which on her scale might as well have compare it to ... you know ... stale water
<desrt> ouch
<larsu> *compared
<desrt> it's not my favourite, by any means, but i believe it has a place, and in the correct place i gladly accept it if offered.  i've even purchased it before.
<larsu> "even" lol
 * Sweet5hark just kicked off a libreoffice-4.4.4~rc2 build.
<desrt> well, after such a description it feels like the sort of admission that may cause you two to think less of me :)
<desrt> answer me: what time of day was it when you drank this, and were you outside, and what was the temperature?
<larsu> desrt: don't worry about that. We don't judge people by their taste in beer
<larsu> or anything, for that matter
<larsu> desrt: 4:30pm, yes, warm
<desrt> well then you don't understand canadian pizza
<larsu> HAHA
<desrt> an important cultural aspect is to make fun of the "dirty water" americans drink and call it beer :)
<larsu> well, she's never had to endure that kind of beer
<desrt> i mean, if it wasn't for piss-quality american beer to talk about, i'm not sure canada would have a culture at all
<larsu> you could apologize for even more things
<desrt> this meme is starting to get slightly annoying
<desrt> mostly because it's newish
<desrt> and it's suddenly everywhere
<larsu> sorry
<desrt> perfect.  absolutely perfect.
<larsu> ;)
<larsu> it's not that new. It was strong when I was in Toronto, tooo
<desrt> ya... it's like a past-5-years sort of thing
<desrt> so it's at the phase where newspapers are printing articles about it
<larsu> that's a couple of centuries in internet-time
<desrt> newspapers.  they have to go out and kill a tree before they can print stuff.  give them a chance.  :)
<larsu> heh
<ochosi> Sweet5hark: ping
<dgadomski> hey seb128, one thing still wonders me about the gvfs-related issue we talked about the other day
<seb128> hey dgadomski
<dgadomski> seb128: if a user mounts a samba share via nautilus I can see it only available at /run/user/<uid>/gvfs, should I expect it also be visible in /etc/mtab somehow?
<seb128> dgadomski, I don't know how fuse works and if mtab reflects fuse mounts, maybe pitti can help you
<dgadomski> seb128: thanks, I'll try to find out more about it, hopefully pitti will have a minute to discuss this
<seb128> you have a mtab entry for  /run/user/<uid>/gvfs it seems
<Sweet5hark> ochosi: pong
<seb128> dgadomski, it doesn't seem to have lines for specific mounts, I guess it's under the gvfs entry
<dgadomski> seb128: that's right, but not for individual shares mounted -- there's just one gvfsd-fuse filesystem mounted incorporating all filesystems mounted e.g. with nautlius
<seb128> right
<seb128> dobey, mvo, could you merge https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/software-center/gtk-has-icon and https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/software-center/gtkgrid-deprecated-nrow for me? I uploaded to wily but I don't have commit rights to the vcs to push the changes there
<mvo> seb128: the icon fix looks SRU worthy even, wdyt?
<seb128> mvo, I did a SRU with the 2 changes
<mvo> seb128: \o/
<seb128> the review fix was worth a SRU as well I think ;-)
<mvo> seb128: indeed
<dobey> seb128: i'll deal with it
<seb128> dobey, mvo, thanks
<mvo> aiui there is tarmac runnig and merging the s-c branches, probably needs two votes instead of one?
<dobey> mvo: no, i think the tarmac is not running any more. i'm going to just get the branches set up to land via ci train instead
<mvo> aha, ok
<dobey> as soon as i finish with the current thing i'm working on
<Laney> greyback_: yo, do you know if anyone is working on https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/platform-api/delete-deprecations/+merge/254170 atm? seems stalled
 * Laney is working on gstreamer and it is blocked on bug #1458681 but can't fix platform-api due to ftbfs
<ubot5> bug 1458681 in platform-api (Ubuntu) "[gst-hybris] FTBFS in wily/vivid (armhf/i386)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1458681
<greyback_> Laney: I know of nobody working on that. platform-api only touched by people who need something from it :)
 * Laney just needs it to not be broken :P
<greyback_> I'm surprised it is broken
<greyback_> platform-api is failing to build right now?
 * greyback_ tries
<Laney> some MirEvent thing has gone away
<greyback_> Laney: wily or vivid+overlay?
<Laney> wily
<greyback_> ok
<Laney> I didn't check that MP fixes it but the description/commit message sounded good :)
<greyback_> Laney: it fails on vivid+overlay too. how the heck did mir land breaking it?
<Laney> I doubt anyone tests building reverse-build-deps
<Laney> but this wasn't an ABI break requiring rebuild?
<greyback_> I would have expected it to be
<Laney> I don't see platform-api in the ppa
<greyback_> Laney: ok that delete-deprecations branch builds on vivid+overlay, but fails on wily. I'll investigate why & get back to you
<Laney> greyback_: thanks!
<seb128> bah, long story short, I don't have my gpg/ssh key working with me, any change somebody could commit/upload http://paste.ubuntu.com/11719947/ (lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.wily) for me :-/
<seb128> chance*
<seb128> I would like to see that published/online for the next cdimage build
<seb128> didrocks, Laney? ^ anyone wanting a beer added to their tap for that? ;-)
<Laney> tab
<Laney> and ok, can you give a commit message too?
<seb128> hum
<larsu> beer?
<seb128> Laney, "install the needed grub packages on the snappy personnal images"
<Laney> thx
<seb128> thank *you*!
 * Laney wonders how seb128 ended up without his keys ;-)
<larsu> it's a long story...
<seb128> I'm on my touch inspiron config
<Laney> it involves going for a lunchtime wine
<seb128> but I lended the laptop to a friend over the w.e so I did clean out some sensitive things from it
<Laney> and falling in a canal ...
<seb128> lol
<seb128> and I forgot I had them cleaned out :p
<seb128> didn't restore that
<didrocks> ah, Laney saw beer and beated me to it!
<seb128> you drink-o-olics!
<didrocks> well, seems Laney is even more than I :)
<didrocks> *breaking news*
 * larsu listens and sips from his tea
<seb128> but for the record
<seb128> http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/photo_2015-06-09_09-31-54.jpg
<Laney> speaking of wine...
<Laney> HAHA yes, I bet that is it
<seb128> never had so many bottle of wine open next to me
<didrocks> cool dude in the back!
<seb128> didrocks is the master
<seb128> you tasted them all right?
<didrocks> yep!
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> how many?
<didrocks> we were 12 for the record
<didrocks> 15 bottles IIRC
<larsu> nie
<larsu> *nice
<didrocks> started at 6, finished at 3am
<Laney> those guys get good sprints
<seb128> srly?!
<larsu> and then went out for a beer?
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> larsu: some did
 * Laney had to catch fish in hyde park last time because they didn't feed me
 * didrocks won't give names
<larsu> didrocks: of course :)
<larsu> Germans.
<didrocks> Laney: ahah
<didrocks> larsu: this involved a German indeed
<larsu> haha
<larsu> nice guess
<didrocks> wasn't too risky :p
<seb128> that's why you had the friday off right? ;-)
<didrocks> ahah, even not! I was one of the first to get up on Thursday
<didrocks> no hangover, what'soever
<didrocks> because most of the bottles were good wines
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> some other were not bought by frenchiesâ¦
<larsu> the one time in my life I had a really bad hangover was from red wine
<larsu> pretty good one, too
<larsu> just *a lot*
<didrocks> larsu: most of the bottle's prices started at 20â¬
<didrocks> range from 20-30 I guess
<didrocks> oh, btw, in case the French governement sees this, as we are talking about alcohol: Â« L'alcool est dangereux pour la santÃ©. Ã consommer avec modÃ©ration. Pour plus d'information, consulter le site manger/bougerâ¦ Â»
<larsu> didrocks: ya. The ones we had that night were in that range as well
<larsu> this was on la palma. Fun times.
<larsu> didrocks: I always consume in modÃ©ration
<Laney> didrocks: the C+W party at debconf is going to be fun ;-)
<Laney> bring your best stuff!
<didrocks> heh, yep!
<didrocks> C can be "cheese" or "charcuterie" of course :)
<Laney> cognac
<larsu> cidre
<dpm> hi seb128, still around?
<seb128> dpm, hey, yes
<dpm> hey
<dpm> seb128, so after your e-mail, I decided to have a go at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC to test it first-hand
<dpm> seb128, I'm on vivid, and I got stuck at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11720763/ - do you have any pointers of what could have gone wrong?
<seb128> dpm, oh, nice, I didn't try the lxc version yet, how is that working?
<dpm> well ^ :)
<seb128> bregma's team is working on that, maybe he or chris can help you
<dpm> supposedly it works, as popey managed to get it running
<dpm> but he's on wily IIRC
<popey> yes, I am
<dpm> ok, cool, will ask them then, thanks!
<popey> what's not working?
<dpm> hi bregma, while trying to get the unity8 session in an LXC container working on a vivid host, I got stuck at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11720763/ - do you have any pointers of what could have gone wrong?
<dpm> popey, ^
<bregma> dpm, you're gonna need ChrisTownsend to help figure that problem out, and he's on vacation until Wednesday
<popey> did you do what it says?
<dpm> argh
<popey> --fix-missing :)
<dpm> popey, not sure how to execute that on the container
<popey> ah
<popey> me either
<dpm> ok, thanks bregma
<dpm> will try to figure out how to do surgery in the container
<bregma> the container is wily, I believe, so maybe there is a version mismatch between what it's getting anbd what it wants to install
<dpm> yeah, it downloaded the wily iso at least
<bregma> the scripts that adjust the container to use upstart are all Python, so it's got that going for it
<bregma> I know a bunch of MPs fixing that whole upstart-version-thing just went in for that project, maybe Chris didn't update his PPA or something?
<dpm> bregma, could you point me to the MPs? Happy to manually apply them if it's about just fixing the unity8-lxc-setup script
<bregma> dpm, they're all in trunk http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity8-desktop-session-team/unity8-preview-lxc/trunk/changes/61?start_revid=61
<dpm> thanks
<dpm> seems there are no pending MPs, though
<bregma> right, they all landed
 * dpm checks PPA version
<bregma> they all landed *in wily*, looks like the vivid version in the PPA is out of date
<dpm> argh
<dpm> I guess I can just manually install the wily version on vivid?
 * dpm checks content of package
<bregma> should be OK
<bregma> I believe it's all scripts
<dpm> it seems so, yes
 * dpm tries
<dpm> it installed at least
<dpm> now let see if it runs
<dpm> finished without errors
<dpm> now let's try to log in ;)
 * bregma quivers with anticip
<bregma> ation
<dpm> bregma, it kind of worked. When I logged into the unity8 session, I ended up with a black screen and a working mouse cursor. Any ideas how to debug this?
<bregma> dpm, do you have Intel graphics?
<dpm> bregma, yeah, with a dual monitor setup, if that makes a difference. FWIW both monitors were working, as in a "clone monitors" setup
<bregma> not sure if Mir/Unity8 handles multimonitor yet:  it didn't used to
<bregma> may have changed while I wasn't looking
<dpm> I guess I can just turn one off or pull the cable
<dpm> bregma, hm, with one monitor, it logs into the unity8 session and then throws me back to lightdm, where only the indicators are active (i.e. the session switcher does not react to clicks). Any ideas, or any log file that could help debugging?
<bregma> dpm, is that the host lightdm or is it the Unity 8 greeter in the container?
<dpm> bregma, not sure I can follow. So here's what I did, if that helps with the answer: 1) Reboot 2) Choose the unity8 session in lightdm 3) screen goes black for a bit 4) I'm being shown the same lightdm as 3), with working indicators and non-working switcher
<dpm> actually, 2) should be "choose unity8 session, enter password and hit enter"
<bregma> sounds like the hosts's lightdm being displayed, I'd start by checking /var/log/lightdm to see if there are any obvious errors reported
<bregma> after that, I'm afraid you really need Chris
<bregma> it sounds like the container is shutting down because the compositor has crashed, but I'm really just guessing now
<dpm> I can't see anything obvious from the lightdm log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11721077/
<dpm> bregma, but the compositor log does seem to show a crasher: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11721087/
<bregma> yep, a typical cryptic Mir error message
<bregma> I windoer if that's the new problem where required dependencies are missing from Mir?
<bregma> mmm, shouldn't be, that was worked around by preseeding the desktop-next ISO
<dpm> not sure if that makes a difference, but after the failed attempt to run unity8-lxc-setup from the outdated PPA, I then ran 'unity8-lxc-setup --rebuild-all', as I thought that was the logical step given that the ISO had already been downloaded
<bregma> well, I know you can build from an already-downloaded ISO, so that should be OK
<bregma> some of use have expensive bandwidth and made that an early requirement
<dpm> yeah, it was quite neat not to have to re-download
<bregma> Mir guys think maybe the LXC container is missing /dev/shm ... in which case there's yet another new change we'll need to work around
<dpm> is there anything I can do to work around it manually if that's the issue?
<bregma> dpm, you could try manually bindmounting /dev/shm, but I'm getting out of my depth at this point.
<bregma> if that works, it's definitely time to open a bug against unity8-preview-lxc
<dpm> bregma, and mine too. Manually starting the LXC container from the host session and using lxc-console seems to show that /dev/shm is there at least
<bregma> maybe it's apparmor?
<sarnold> dmesg | grep DEN or grep DEN /var/log/syslog
<dpm> oh, actually this is the bug: I'm experiencing: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8-preview-lxc/+bug/1437900
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1437900 in Unity8 Desktop Preview in LXC "Black screen with cursor" [Critical,Fix committed]
<sarnold> the "anonymous file" mentioned in the one log reminds me strongly of this: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/memfd_create.2.html
<sarnold> .. fo rwhich functionality was added to the linux kernel in 3.17. a strace might fnid out what's going on..
<bregma> well, it would be a little disappointing if Mir now requires Linux 4.0 or later, but not entirely unsurprising
<ogra_> bregma, cant happen
<ogra_> the phones are on 3.4 and the like :)
<dpm> bregma, so in case that helps, I manually started the LXC container (it wasn't running before, which seems it failed to autostart) and that seemed to fix the unresponsive lightdm screen. But now I'm back to a black screen with cursor
<bunty> hiii
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-16
<didrocks> good morning
<Laney> meow
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<seb128> Laney, btw did you get a cat now that you have a house?
<Laney> doing good!
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> no not yet, I bought the wrong kind of house alarm and need to get that changed first :(
<seb128> oh?
<Laney> http://www.quicksafe.co.uk/burglar-alarms-c15/pet-friendly-alarms-c26
<seb128> they have special cat friendly ones? ;-)
<Laney> ya
<Laney> so it can move around
<seb128> nice
<Laney> hey didrocks
<didrocks> what about bruglar cats then? :)
<Laney> how are you guys?
 * Laney hears a fly and goes to get  it
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks
<seb128> Laney, doing good :-)
<seb128> we have a british sky today, give us the blue back!
<Laney> just get everyone to blow hard at it
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/wily-adt-software-properties/lastBuild/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/console
<Laney> MVOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<Laney> actually, m_pttttttttttt :)
<didrocks> ahah
<seb128> lol
<seb128> designers shouldn't code :p
<Laney> Kernel panic - not syncing: Too many boot init vars at `nomdmonddf'
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> who done broke my computer
<Laney> HAHA
<Laney> it's got "nomdmonisw nomdmonddf" repeated about 10 times
<Laney> more like 20 actually
<didrocks> I got it once, but it was because I was messing hacking on the additional grub entry for upstart booting
<Laney>         linux   /boot/vmlinuz-3.19.0-20-generic root=UUID=980689ca-e7d9-4a99-8230-33b8b6e917cd ro  nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw systemd.debug-shell nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf ...
<Laney> ... nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw nomdmonddf nomdmonisw
<seb128> weird
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> xnox: I found your fingers on this
<Laney> that /etc/default/grub.d/dmraid2mdadm.cfg is appending to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT every time grub-pc is reconfigured
<Laney> I guess I can just make it do that only once or something
<xnox> Laney: =)
<xnox> Laney: i was meant to drop that conffile and make dmraid depends on mdadm, and sed re-write /etc/fstab to switch to mdadm.
<xnox> need to check how systemd jobs play along there and do it
<xnox> somehow, i'm lacking time to work on these things. too much work & volleyball.
<Laney> doesn't seem to actually execute the script
<Laney> oh maybe it does
<xnox> there is a bug in update-grub where it is sourced and written out multiple times....
<xnox> and readded on each time.....
<Laney> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11723902/ ?
<xnox> Laney: oh, nice. please upload.
<Laney> pitti: gentle udisks2 reminder
<Laney> qengho: same for chromium (ISTR you said you had a diff, feel free to toss it over)
<pitti> Laney: ack
 * desrt yawns
<desrt> hi kids
<seb128> good morning desrt!
<larsu> morning desrt!
<seb128> hey larsu
<seb128> how was spanish today?
<larsu> seb128: great :)
 * larsu is learning a lot
<seb128> Laney, larsu, the current #gtk+ discussion seems like bug #1463848
<ubot5> bug 1463848 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "[gtk 3.16] sidebar has unused space at the bottom" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1463848
<seb128> <mclasen> houz: you can try .undershoot.top { background: none; }
<seb128>  and similar for other edges
<seb128> just as a fyi ;-)
<seb128> bah
<seb128> Laney, pitti: did you figure out what's the issue with those failed jenkins https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/wily-adt-libreoffice/78/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/console ?
<seb128> the tar errors
<seb128> is that a ENOSPACE?
<pitti> seb128: no, that's a different, and rather old bug; I'll retry
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<Laney> seb128: try it!
<seb128> Laney, I did, ".undershoot.bottom { background: none; }" works for me
<Laney> neat
<seb128> unsure why we don't have the issue with "top" though
<seb128> or why is that needed with bottom only
<seb128> or if*
<seb128> top has some overshoot effect as well no?
<seb128> no larsu this afternoon?
<seb128> k, commented on the bug
<Laney> yeah probably all sides
<Laney> thx
<seb128> Laney, yeah, but we don't see the top of e.g the nautilus sidebar to be cut
<seb128> weird
<Laney> resize it and then scroll
<seb128> oh, ok
<seb128> that's only displayed after scrolling, interesting
<seb128> Laney, thanks ;-)
<Laney> it's to tell you there is more stuff there
<seb128> I though it was the rectangle where the overshoot effect is displayed when you scroll and hit a limit
<seb128> so that it was there always but just getting content when hitting that case
<larsu> seb128: am here. Don't feel so well, so I stepepd away from the compter for a bit
<seb128> larsu, oh, no worry, get better!
<seb128> larsu, it was just theme discussions, no hurry
<seb128> larsu, I commented on the bug
<larsu> seb128: thanks. I'll have a look in a bit
<seb128> larsu, and we careful with the spanish sun, maybe wear an hat tomorrow ;-)
<larsu> haha :D
 * larsu wishes
<larsu> quite the bad weather here
<seb128> here it was that this morning
<seb128> it starts being a bit sunny now
<larsu> nice!
<didrocks> we avoided rain and storms apparently here
<seb128> oh, but it's meeting time!
<didrocks> yep!
<desrt> party
<seb128> so, how does that thing work again? ;-)
<desrt> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 16 15:31:53 2015 UTC.  The chair is desrt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<desrt> #topic rollcall
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: rollcall
 * Sweet5hark is rolling a lot already.
<didrocks> do you rock as well?
<Laney> (HI!)
 * desrt waits for seb
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: on weekends
<seb128> attente, desrt, dgadomski, didrocks, FJKong, happyaron, Laney, larsu, qengho, Sweet5hark, hey
<larsu> hi
<desrt> o/
<seb128> desrt, building the list of names :p
<dgadomski> \o
 * larsu waited for the cue
<desrt> #chair seb128
<meetingology> Current chairs: desrt seb128
<seb128> shrug, I guess desrt is in charge of changing topic, since he started the meeting
<seb128> oh, that works? ;-)
<seb128> good
<desrt> :)
<seb128> let's get started then
<seb128> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: attente
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> hi
<attente> wrote tests for the apparmor stuff, re-proposed patches to the apparmor mailing list, awaiting review
<attente> fixed gdk-mir backend failing to build because of changed mir client api
<attente> debugging a gdk-mir issue with the frame clock not emitting paint signals for some windows
<attente> (eof)
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: desrt
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> was at bsdcan last week, and gave a talk about upstream relationship with gnome.  got a very warm welcome from everyone there.  had a lot of interesting talk about app confinement/memfd/kdbus/etc. stype of things and hopefully that works nicely going forward as well
<desrt> took some time out to write a requirements documents for the new dconf proxy stuff (as requested by tvoss, i think)
<desrt> did some patch reviewing
<desrt> that's all, more or less
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> nice to you got a very warm welcome ;-)
<seb128> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: dgadomski
<seb128> dgadomski, hey
<dgadomski> hello
<dgadomski> only one thing in the desktop area this week: seb128 and pitti explained me (thanks for your patience guys!) the roles of gvfs and gio in terms of mounting remote filesystems (I was particularly interested in Samba shares), I have reported a bug #1464645 about it. Will report an upstream bug to GNOME and try to work on the implementation
<ubot5> bug 1464645 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Samba shares over gvfs do not respect ACL rules" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464645
<dgadomski> thanks a lot!
<seb128> yw!
<dgadomski> that's it from me
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> ho hey hi
<didrocks> * Released Ubuntu Make 0.8.2: fixes visual studio as upstream changed their downloading code. Bring up x86 support.
<didrocks> * Snappy development story: draft some documents and participate in multiple discussions about what the development story for snappy should be, in particular around android and web development
<didrocks> * Fixed some zram-config systemd-related issue + SRU them to vivid.
<didrocks> * Worked on a example application (still in progress) and trying to divide it in multiple chapters. This app is "season 1" of what is going to be developer advocacy videos.
<didrocks> * More discussions around the developer advocacy story and coordination with the community team.
<didrocks> .
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw
<seb128> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: FJKong
<seb128> FJKong, there?
<FJKong> yep
<FJKong> * new feature discuess and research for sogou add display to input window to support shuangpin
<FJKong> * bug tracing for skin iQim display error
<FJKong> * bug tracing for lag when first time to start qimpanel
<FJKong> eof
<seb128> FJKong, thanks
<seb128> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: happyaron
<seb128> happyaron, here? (I guess not since you sent me an update)
<seb128> 1. ibus/1.3.10-1 update at Debian, python2 removal
<seb128> 2. ibus-hangul bug triaging, said to be not usable but actually it works
<seb128> 3. use fcitx as default for Korean and Vietnamese
<seb128> 4. analysis of fcitx-qimpanel not showing up at correct location with
<seb128> high-dpi display, problem is in unity not reporting the scaled
<seb128> location correctly.
<seb128> 5. continue to work on Sogou CI infrastructure
<seb128> happyaron, thanks ;-)
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Laney
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> greetings
<Laney> â¢ software-properties test fix
<Laney> â¢ dbus-test-runner test fix
<Laney> â¢ kde-gtk-config test fix
<Laney> â¢ broken boot (kernel panic), mdadm bug: fix, sru to vivid + trusty
<Laney> â¢ gstreamer 1.5 (â 1.6) packaging, partially in ww PPA
<Laney> â -bad is blocked on broken platform-api https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/platform-api/+bug/1458680
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1458680 in platform-api (Ubuntu) "platform-api FTBFS in wily (2.9.0+15.04.20150326-0ubuntu1)" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> â test using LP git for these, e.g. https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-base1.0/+git/gst-plugins-base1.0
<Laney> â¢ Update gjs + debian, gtk-doc (sync)
<Laney> â rebuild some devhelp2 files that were broken with previous version
<Laney> â¢ Upload larsu's totem menu patch, SRU 3.14.3 + this patch to vivid
<Laney> â¢ some fixups to get gtk migrated
<Laney> â¢ patch gtk to restore type-ahead find in GtkFileChooser
<Laney> â¢ some chats about snappy desktop thing, set up release team so seb128 can do his own builds :-)
<Laney> â¢ start to work on evo + eds + etc 3.16
<Laney> â¢ experimenting with using trello for sharing + tracking tasks https://trello.com/b/FQgY4lpN/gnome-work
<Laney> â
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> it is my pleasure
<seb128> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: larsu
<seb128> larsu, hey
<larsu> hi! I went to that sales thing last week which took quite some time out my week (travel, prep, debrief, etc). Otherwise I continued work on the touch/systemd port - mostly still getting to know things. (And not feeling very well today - hope it's better tomorrow)
<larsu> also, I have a different time zone for 2 weeks (going to a class in the mornings)
<seb128> larsu, hope you get better as well!
<larsu> seb128: thanks! I think it's just a quick thing. Feeling down with a headache - should be fine in the morning
<seb128> great
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: qengho
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> * Working on Chromium/Ibus interaction bug. May explain the "focus" bug I was seeing. Patches to ibus upcoming.
<qengho> * I have a debdiff for Laney to fix autopkgtest bug. Expect in email, L.
<Laney> (yesssss)
<qengho> * Some mor mir/ozone/chromium work. Lots of untested upstream code paths.
<qengho> EOF.
<seb128> you are making Laney happy it seems ;-)
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: seb128
<seb128> â¢ spent a good part of the week fighting with snappy & personnal image build, we are getting there (got an image to build but it's not booting now)
<seb128> â¢ fixed gnome-tetravex build issue
<seb128> â¢ worked with the touch team on issues with the translation updates for ota4, helped to update some langpack manually as a workaround until the ppa translations situation is sorted out
<seb128> â¢ backported u-s-s fixed to vivid serie
<seb128> â¢ debugged some new-gtk-regression in software-center, uploaded 2 fixes to wily for reviews and icons, SRUed as well
<seb128> â¢ nautilus SRU to trusty
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ bugs triage
<seb128> </week>
<seb128> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Sweet5hark
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey
<Sweet5hark> - some upstream prerelease triage for 5.0/wily
<Sweet5hark> -- possibly somewhat nasty trouble/regression with unity menus
<Sweet5hark> -- VclPtr-foo something to look out for regressionwise
<Sweet5hark> - various upstream grant proposals/requests work:
<Sweet5hark> -- test infrastructure: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/test-infrastructure-ideas-appreciated-td4150433.html
<Sweet5hark> -- LibreOffice dev/qa/community dashboard: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/TDF-Grant-Request-Proposal-LibreOffice-project-dashboard-quot-All-about-LibreOffice-quot-td4151652.html
<Sweet5hark> - lcov/test coverage run and some analysis
<Sweet5hark> - LibreOffice 4.4.4~rc2 build, smoketested and copied to LibreOffice fresh ppa
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<Sweet5hark> (almost did copypasta in the wrong channel)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<seb128> I didn't get the status updates from robert_ancell and TheMuso but maybe they didn't get the message that they should sent those to me
<seb128> #topic other topics
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: other topics
<seb128> did I forget anyone?
<seb128> do we have other topics?
<tkamppeter> Yes, my part.
<Laney> :(
<larsu> uh oh
<seb128> tkamppeter, oh, you were not here when we started the meeting I think
<seb128> didn't see you joining
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter, your turn then
<tkamppeter> - Further investigation of problem with ippusbxd (support for IPP-over-USB printer) under systemd, still problems IPP-over-USB printer will be ordered soon.
<tkamppeter> - cups: Created separate binary package for IPP utilities only needed by admins and devs: ipptool, ippfind, ippserver
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<tkamppeter> HPLIP 3.15.6
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> #topic other topics?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: other topics?
<seb128> ok, other topics? ;-)
<tkamppeter> My xchat lost connection in the beginning and I had to reconnect.
<desrt> thanks everyone!
<desrt> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316"
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 15:55:17 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-06-16-15.31.moin.txt
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> thanx
<desrt> seb128: only a few simple commands to remember :)
<seb128> desrt, yeah ;-)
<seb128> I know the start/stop/topic ones
<seb128> would be handy if the list of nicknames to call was stored though ;-)
<Laney> laters!
<robert_ancell> mterry, does anything need to be done to make vala-0.28 go into main? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala-0.28 still shows it in Universe and I think it's stopping all the builds that require vala in main (e.g. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/209188618/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-amd64.zeitgeist_0.9.14-2.2ubuntu5_BUILDING.txt.gz)
<mterry> robert_ancell, something needs to pull it in
<mterry> robert_ancell, how is valac-0.26 in there now?  seeded?
<mterry> robert_ancell, i have to leave now though  :-/
<robert_ancell> mterry, that's what I was wondering . AFAIK nothing pulled valac-0.26 in so there must be some sort of override.
<robert_ancell> mterry, ok, cya
<robert_ancell> mterry, ps, blame pitti for being trigger happy with vala-dep-scanner :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-17
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: quite well, thanks! juggling systemd, langpacks, and urgent apport features :)
<didrocks> good luck!
<pitti> et toi ?
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks
<larsu> morning :)
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<seb128> hey pitti & desktopers
<seb128> pitti, wie gehts?
 * pitti ^5s seb128, gut danke! und dir?
<seb128> pitti, larsu is off for the morning, he's have spanish classes this week (and shifted hours)
 * seb128 ^5s pitti back, good, danke!
<pitti> seb128: ah, I missed his "good morning" earlier
<seb128> hum
<seb128> so that iso doesn't boot in kvm :-/
<seb128> "systemd: Started udev Coldplug all Devices."
<seb128> it just sits there
<seb128> 13s in the boot
<Laney> hello!
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> pitti, is boot blocking on "systemd: Started udev Coldplug all Devices." symptomatic of some known class of system misconfiguration/bug?
<Laney> hey didrocks & seb128
<seb128> Laney, how is u.k today?
<Laney> cloudy, rain later
<Laney> and nl?
<seb128> sunny today!
<seb128> and not too windy, which is nice
<pitti> seb128: not really -- that sounds like a kernel driver issue usually, but hard to tell without more logs
<pitti> seb128: drop "quiet splash" and boot with "debug systemd.debug-shell"?
<seb128> pitti, k
<seb128> pitti, it hangs on http://imagebin.ca/v/25WyUYshyvpy ... no way to go to vt8 or something
<pitti> seb128: hm, is that with a new kernel or something? since when did that happened?
<Laney> bet a thousand euros it's the personal image
<Laney> :)
<seb128> Laney, you won!
<seb128> pitti, it's a candidate of snappy personnal image I'm trying to build in kvm
<seb128> it's the first image build that worked so can't compare to "previous versions/since"
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok; and no VT switching? seems that something is breaking stuff really hard then :/ could you try moving /etc/sysctl.d/ away for testing if it's one of the knobs there which trigger a kernel fault or so?
<seb128> pitti, how do you I move things away without a command line? can I do that from grub?
<seb128> booting with upstart it hits cloud-init expection errors and seem to bug on that
<pitti> seb128: you can't boot rescue either?
<seb128> some mkdir failing
<pitti> seb128: you could boot with init=/bin/bash
<pitti> then mount -o remount,rw /
<pitti> and h4ck stuff there
<seb128> let me try recovery
<pitti> I can help you in a bit, I'm just rather swamped ATM
<seb128> don't worry, thanks for the hints
<pitti> and Laney's "fix udisks" club is becoming a real threat too
<pitti> seb128: in the mean time, feel free to scp it to people.c.c.?
<seb128> pitti, it's a 10G image, going to take a while on my dsl line, going to do that over lunch
<pitti> seb128: convert it to qcow2?
<pitti> seb128: please don't upload a raw image :)
<seb128> k
 * seb128 googles
<seb128> qemu-img convert -f raw -O qcow2
<pitti> seb128: qemu-img convert -O qcow2 xx.raw xx.img
<pitti> seb128: you can then also use -snapshot
<pitti> when running the VM, to avoid modifying it
 * didrocks has some easy-to-use scripts for this if interested
<seb128> didrocks, converting?
<seb128> shoot! :-)
<didrocks> seb128: not converting, but starting with/without snapshot, using hw accelâ¦
 * Laney hugs pitti 
<Laney> feel free to punt that if you have some hints about where to look
<didrocks> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/vms/vmcommon
<seb128> didrocks, I'm interested!
<didrocks> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~didrocks/vms/ rather
<seb128> didrocks, 'ci
<pitti> fun how everyone has their own :)
<didrocks> seb128: make them all executable, but vmcommon
<seb128> k
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/vm and http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/vmbr here
<didrocks> Usage: /home/didrocks/bin/vm [--master] <image> [vm options...]
<pitti> so that I can do "vm /my/ubuntu.img -snapshot"
<pitti> and vmbr is with using the lxcbr0 bridge for "proper" networking
<Laney> you crazy people
<didrocks> interesting, mine are -snapshot by default, unless you specify --master to modify base image
<Laney> I just load it up in virt-manager :P
<didrocks> (as I'm using snapshot way more)
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I tend to do that too, good idea
<didrocks> the vm-net is inspired by the commands you gave me some times ago, seems similar to vmbr :)
<pitti> yeah, "vm" just searches a free port and uses that for ssh redirection, vmbr does the bridge thing
<didrocks> Laney: remember that you are the one liking tiling wm :)
<larsu> hi pitti :)
<larsu> man it's nice out
<ogra_> in berlin too ?
<pitti> c'Ã©tait gris en BaviÃ¨re d'hier :(
<larsu> ogra_: ya. Perfect.
<ogra_> kassel too :)
<larsu> nice :)
<pitti> Laney: udisks is an actual regression; investigating now
<pitti> perhaps related to newer kernel/util-linux/udev, as udisks2 itself hasn't changed in a while
<seb128> pitti, ok, so I managed to get a debug console, tons of jobs fail to start :-/
<seb128> journalctl has a lot of "failed dependencies", is there a way to tell which one?
<seb128> also trying to start e.g getty@tty7 returns a job for ... canceled"
<larsu> it is configured to only allow 6 gettys
<larsu> this is on touch?
<pitti> seb128: can you pastebin a journalctl output?
 * pitti needs to run for some errands, back in 20
<seb128> larsu, ignore getty, I can list any other job in the same situation, rc-local.service if you prefer
<seb128> pitti, not easy, I'm in a debug console of a kvm without much access to outside
<pitti> seb128: systemctl --failed
<seb128> larsu, and no, it's not touch, it's snappy personnal try
<seb128> pitti, that lists 38 failed jobs
<seb128> but mostly mount ones
<seb128> which I know why they fail, but that shouldn't block the system to start, should it?
<larsu> depends on which ones fail I guess
<seb128> larsu, /writable touch rw overwrites
<seb128> not system partitions
<larsu> hm?
<seb128> hum?
<larsu> huum?
<seb128> what do you "hm?" about?
<larsu> not sure what you mean by "/writable touch rw overwrites"
<seb128> the fstab includes bindmounts for touch
<seb128> which don't work on snappy
<seb128> but I don't really care if those locales stay ro
<seb128> so those jobs failing is fine to me (if that doesn't block other things)
<larsu> ah, that makes sense
<larsu> haven't dug that deep into systemd yet
<larsu> but probably it's configured to not boot when mounts fail
<seb128> is there a "retry all failing jobs?" ;-)
<larsu> I don't think so, no :)
<larsu> there's probably some mount target that you can activate though
 * larsu looks
<larsu> seb128: what does `systemctl list-units --type=targets --all` say?
<larsu> especially for the local-fs.target
<seb128> "unknown unit type or load state 'targets'"
<larsu> sorry, it's --type=target
<seb128> all is not-found
<larsu> not good :/
<seb128> syslog as well
<seb128> everything else is loaded
<seb128> local-fs is loaded inactive dead
<seb128> which I guess is not good
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> should be active :)
<larsu> you can try reactivating it, but I'm not sure why that would work now
<seb128> yeah, a dependency job failed
<seb128> but it doesn't say which one
<larsu> not even in the jounral?
<larsu> journalctl -f in a separate terminal is really handy btw
<seb128> yeah, just too much content in there
<seb128> like it lists 50 jobs that fail
<seb128> k, that's ridiculous, I guess I need to clear out the fstab/writable issue first and see what remains
<pitti> seb128: if fstab mounts fail that aren't marked with "nofail", they will fail local-fs.target and with it pretty much everything else
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I guess it's the issue there
<seb128> pitti, can I edit fstab and tell "retry all the jobs"? ;-)
<seb128> or retry start local-fs ?
<pitti> seb128: (untested) "systemctl default"
<pitti> seb128: but might be easier to just reboot :)
<pitti> seb128: systemctl status local-fs.target doesn't say which dependency failed? it shold
<seb128> pitti, hum, are changed to qcow2 images stored/persistent?
<pitti> seb128: normally yes, unless you start qemu with -snapshot
<pitti> usually better to start with -snapshot, as you can hack away without destroying the image
<seb128> k
<seb128> pitti, http://picpaste.com/qemu-7fiqV7Bv.png
<didrocks> or if you use my scriptâ¦ :)
 * seb128 tries reboot
<pitti> seb128: ok; then "systemctl --failed --type=mount" should list the failed ones
<seb128> pitti, yeah, there is like 38 of those
<seb128> ok, boots now to what looks like a display server fail, progress!
<seb128> didrocks, do you remember why you didn't include http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/ubuntu-core/hooks/20-extra-files.chroot in the ubuntu-desktop-next dir?
<seb128> that seems the issue
<seb128> the /writable dir is missing so all the mount job fail
<seb128> jobs*
<pitti> seb128: ah, nice!
<pitti> ln -sf /proc/mounts /etc/mtab
<pitti> oh for $DEITY's sake, can we just completely eradicate /etc/mtab?
<pitti> it seems snappy is the one thing that doesn't need to be concerned about 30 year old tools for disks/mounts administration?
<didrocks> seb128: once sec, looking (sorry, finishing up opening a BTS issue on licensecheck)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I just want the "mkdir -p /writable"
<seb128> mvo_, ogra_, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/ubuntu-core/hooks/20-extra-files.chroot ... see pitti's comment about mtab
<didrocks> seb128: maybe a mistake. I remember to have deleted one file on purpose, but I don't think it was that one
<pitti> mvo_, ogra_: specifically, did you just add /etc/mtab "because we always did", or does something on snappy actually need it? if the latter, can we fix that?
<ogra_> seb128, yes, and ? i'm fully with him
<ogra_> pitti, no, i had to add it else mountall tries to set it up
<pitti> (I'm volunteering for fixing it, FTR)
<ogra_> we discussed that, remember
<pitti> ogra_: aah, ok
<seb128> ogra_, so it's needed?
<pitti> ogra_: so that was just to quiesce mountall
<ogra_> it needs to be a sym,link
<pitti> but that doesn't affect snappy, just touuch?
<ogra_> we used to do that on the s-i server when re-packing
<ogra_> does systemd have anything handling mtab ?
<ogra_> i think you said no
<pitti> ogra_: our package has a "fixup" job to replace a file with a symlink
<pitti> upstream, no
<ogra_> then snappy wont need it
<pitti> the last bit of util-linux was fix in 2.25 I believe (but we only turned on that option in wily)
<pitti> ogra_: ah, I just see that we do need to adjust /lib/systemd/debian-fixup
<pitti> we don't need /lib/systemd/system/debian-fixup.service in snappy at all, so if we are looking for some 0.01 s optimization somewhere.. :)
<seb128> ogra_, pitti, so should I keep it or delete it?
<pitti> seb128: delete it, and I'll fix debian-fixup.service
<ogra_> pitti, btw, i discussed mtab with slangasek when i added that ... (we are trying to get rid of it since at least 5 years) and i think he said it would probably time to re-visit that ... iirc there are still some debs that rely on it and iots format he said
<pitti> it'll fail on a r/o image until then, but that's harmless
<seb128> pitti, k, what happens without your fix?
<ogra_> seb128, /etc isnt writable ...
<pitti> seb128: debian-fixup.service will likely fail as it can't create the /etc/mtab link
<ogra_> so whatever would try to create it would fail
<seb128> k, but that doesn't block the boot?
<pitti> seb128: no, should be fine; it's just a wants
<seb128> great
<ochosi> Laney: pressed the power button on my new xps13 for the first time one minute ago
<seb128> ogra_, mvo_, do you want it out of ubuntu-core as well?
<seb128> ochosi, oh, you received it? great :-)
<ochosi> yep! :)
<ogra_> seb128, i dont reallyy care, just leave it in touch
<ochosi> first time i see ubuntu OEM
<Laney> ochosi: nice, good luck ;-)
<ochosi> Laney: well i've already downloaded a 15.04 iso, but i still wanted to see what the ootb experience was
<ogra_> the point of this hook is to make it possible to use plain cdimage rootfses without them being re-packaged on the s-i server
<ogra_> i thinnk it will make mountall fall over or at least unhappy on the phone
<ochosi> Laney: is it just Dell or do you ship chrome by default these days?
<Laney> haha of course not
<seb128> ochosi, just oem images
<Laney> that's them
<ochosi> thought so, just wanted to be sure
<seb128> we have discussions every now and then about chromium by default but it never managed to make it default
<ochosi> yeah, basically it'd mean replacing tb as well, no?
<ochosi> at least to get the full benefit of dropping XUL
<seb128> no
<seb128> yeah, well that's not the main driver motivation to change
<seb128> the people who want chromium default just think that it has more users/is more popular
<ogra_> well, it will soon have less ads :)
<ogra_> (given the new firefox ad model)
<ochosi> Laney: whoa, who made BIOS look like Windows 95??
<seb128> pitti, ok, next problem, the vm boots to what looks like x failing to start, but it loops on that and no way to go to a vt or anything, any clue how to debug?
<seb128> recovery does the same
<seb128> tried to boot with init=/bin/bash but that hangs boot and doesn't give me a shell
<pitti> seb128: can you boot with console=ttyS0, and with qemu option "-serial stdout"
<pitti> sorry, "-serial stdio"
<pitti> seb128: then you will get a serial console and the boot messages there
<pitti> and don't need to rely on the internal VTs
<seb128> pitti, great, danke
<seb128> arg
<seb128> don't ctrl-C on that std :p
<seb128> it stops the qemu
<pitti> seb128: yeah :/
<pitti> seb128: do you get some useful output and a getty there?
<seb128> pitti, yes, basically xorg fails to start as expected
<seb128> it just do it in loops for ever
<seb128> and in recovery mode as well? (that feels wrong)
<pitti> so lightdm keeps restarting? or the autologin does?
<pitti> yes, recovery shouldn't start lightdm and default.target and all that
<seb128> lightdm keeps restarting as far as I can tell
<ogra_> seb128, hmm you dont create the firmware and modules mountpoints ?
<ogra_> (why ?)
<seb128> ogra_, is that needed and why?
<seb128> because I don't understand why that's here
<seb128> and it's undocumented
<ogra_> to give your system access to modules and firmware files :)
<seb128> so I try without and if it's needed I'm going to know why and document it
<ogra_> that is where the initrd mounts them
<ogra_> s/mounts/bind mounts/
<seb128> so it's needed?
<ogra_> if you plan to use any modules or firmware ... yes
<ogra_> well, if you always only use system-image re-packed rootfses it will currently still work because the s-i server re-packs the whole rootfs just to add these three dirs
<ogra_> but we are planning to drop that code from there
<ogra_> this hook was in preparation of the droppage
<seb128> oh ok
<ogra_> so if you want it future proof, better create these two dirs too
<seb128> I was going to say, livecd-rootfs copy things to those dirs
<seb128> k
<seb128> noted for the next upload, thanks
<ogra_> no, it doesnt ... they are just nodes for mountpoints
<ogra_> (firmware and modules come from the device tarball, separate from the rootfs)
<seb128> ogra_, well, on the booted image those dirs exist and have content from the kernel image deb
<ogra_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-system-image/ubuntu-system-image/server/view/head:/lib/systemimage/generators.py#L525
<ogra_> thats the code in system-image the hook replaces
<ogra_> (and which we will drop)
<seb128> pitti, yeah, according to the journal lightdm does "Failed with result 'exit-code'" and it keeps retrying
<seb128> ogra_, k, thanks
<mvo_> seb128: could you do me a favour and reject my accidental golang-gettext from vivid-proposed. that was a mistake
<seb128> mvo_, done
<mvo_> ta
<seb128> yw
<ochosi> Laney: oh wow, installing 15.04 cleanly doesn't seem like much fun... (uefi and no wifi)
<ochosi> and sry, i'll stop spamming you with this now
<Laney> ochosi: I just got bcmwl on there manually
<Laney> and it is installed in efi mode
<ogra_> 15.04 isnt even usable on the old XPS13
 * ogra_ will actually do a reinstall of trusty on the weekend 
<ochosi> Laney: switching to legacy left me with: floppy, cd/dvd, usb and mini-sd as boot options...
<seb128> Laney, can you retry desktop-next iso build?.
<Laney> try using your powers?
<seb128> Laney, where is the button?
<seb128> I don't see any control on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/ubuntu-desktop-next
<ogra_> ssh nusakan :)
<Laney> wrong and wrong
<Laney> go to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com and log in
<Laney> then go to "Wily daily"
<Laney> tick the boxes next to the things you want to rebuild
<ogra_> pfft
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> login fails "The name seb128 is already taken."
<larsu> lol
<Laney> haha
<Laney> did it use sso?
<larsu> other seb :D
<seb128> "Have you forgotten your password?" points to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/user/password
<seb128> which is "The resource you tried to access doesn't exist. This can happen because of an invalid link or because of a bug."
<seb128> great
<seb128> quality website
<Laney> be charitable please
<seb128> sorry ;-)
<Laney> probably go ask stgraber, that is his product
<seb128> can you click for me then? ;-)
<Laney> fine, if you go ping him so that I don't have to keep doing this forever
<Laney> probably good to see if doing it via this button works first anyway ...
 * Laney always did it over ssh before
<seb128> Laney, done on -devel
<Laney> thx
<seb128> thank for pointing me to the website
<Laney> didn't work anyway
<Laney> #FAIL
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> stgraber is looking at my issue
<seb128> it's better I'm older than the sso
 * seb128 dinosaur
<Laney> :)
<Laney> I retried it the old way for now
<seb128> Laney, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-18
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Laney: udisks2 est vert Ã  nouveau \o/
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> didrocks, hey there ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: a bit tired, as usual after Basketball (only went to bed at 1:15)
<pitti> but playing was great yesterday
<pitti> and I spent the night fighting juju and canonistack :)
<seb128> urg, that's late to go to bed!
<seb128> I hope you won over juju&canonistack ;-)
<pitti> seb128: kind of -- it keeps failing / fighting back, but I think this will get a lot faster/better in Prodstack
<Laney> morning!
<Laney> pitti: <o/ \o/ \o>
<pitti> hey Laney
<Laney> just chromium left now ;-)
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> ahoy seb128, not bad thanks
<Laney> played my new board game last night
<Laney> the only trouble is that it's really boring
<seb128> Laney, was udisks fixed? by what change?
<seb128> oh :-/
<Laney> GET THIS IF
<Laney> You hate yourself. You hate your friends.
<Laney> http://www.dogandthimble.com/blog/dream-heist-review
<pitti> seb128: it was a real bug, bug 1466081
<ubot5> bug 1466081 in systemd (Debian) "[udev] no uevent when block devices change" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1466081
<seb128> lol
<seb128> pitti, oh ok, in systemd of course
<pitti> seb128: I fixed that last night, so udisks is happy again
<pitti> seb128: sure, what else :)
<seb128> the only package I don't read changelogs from anymore because they are 6 screen longs for every upload :p
<pitti> seb128: yeah, one always needs to skip the topmost merge changelog, the interesting bits are in the Debian parts
<pitti> I just keep dragging along the ubuntu delta, but that hardly ever changes
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I know, I just can't be bothered having to scroll to the right point every time so I stopped reading them
<seb128> right
<seb128> I wish you wouldn't add that summary to the top at every upload :p
<seb128> but at the same time it's a detail, don't worry
<pitti> yeah, it's a bit difficult -- for once, Ubuntu merge policy wants that, OTOH it's the easiest thing to do with git rebase
<pitti> it wouldn't be any less difficult to keep it at a "fixed" version and just say "see version <foo> for details" though
<seb128> right, but then it wouldn't reflect the small changes in the delta that are done
<seb128> the only way is to get to no delta with Debian :p
<didrocks> a lamp suddenly light
<didrocks> "I'm sooo stupid, just got why I don't understand what's happening in my code for the past 10 minutes"
<ogra_> didrocks, oh, you do IoT stuff now ?
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> ogra_: no, I guess it's part of the whole IT engineering field :p
<ogra_> lamps lighting ? yeah, sometimes :)
<didrocks> heh
<davmor2> didrocks: write you code in english it helps ;)
<Laney> my_brain->the_thing_i_want_you_to_do();
<larsu> hola
<didrocks> wb larsu!
<larsu> hi didrocks. Hows the day so far?
 * larsu wonders if he missed anything
<didrocks> larsu: did a bunch of test writings for ubuntu make (and brought arduino support)
<didrocks> enough python3 for today (and did some perl yesterday) ;)
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> didrocks: perl!
<larsu> seb128: good good. Had sushi after spanish
<pitti> larsu: perl!? I thought you learned Spanish
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, not even on a Fridayâ¦
<larsu> pitti: NEVER
<seb128> larsu, that's not really spanish food, you could make an integration effort there!
<larsu> pitti: speaking of weird stuff... I got stuck a bit yesterday with understanding the adb and that rescue adb service
<larsu> there's no adb right now, is there?
 * larsu had to start the service manually
<pitti> larsu: what is "right now"?
<pitti> larsu: it usually comes up in developer mode once you unlock the screen
<ogra_> yeah, there is nothing you should start manually
<pitti> larsu: the "rescue" unit in the pad was for the time when unity didn't come up yet, i. e. it'd run all the time
<pitti> larsu: well, you do need to enable dev mode
<larsu> pitti: dev mode is enabled, but it doesn't come up (in systemd land)
<larsu> works on the image, of course
 * ogra_ guesses someone should port all that stuff to dbus and udev to get rid of the init system boundary 
<ogra_> (i was actually planning to with the switch to a newer adbd and implementation of certificate exchange, but snappy got in my way, not sure who maintains developer mode now )
<larsu> "all that stuff"?
<ogra_> all that stuff -> adbd, the gadget driver managing, property service
<ogra_> developer mode consists of quite a bunch of parts ...
<cedian_linux> Got a black screen with a cursor when starting unityv8
<tedg> RAOF, I can't remember the name of that X11 socket command line parameter you gave me.
<tedg> RAOF, Can I please have it again?
<RAOF> tedg: You're after -displayfd
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-19
<pitti> Good morning
<tedg> RAOF, Thanks!
<RAOF> tedg: No problem.
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks ;-)
<seb128> happyaron, hey, how is the debugging going on bug #1380982? that's the most reported e.u.c issue on vivid
<ubot5> bug 1380982 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus-ui-gtk3 crashed with SIGABRT in g_assertion_message()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1380982
<Laney> hey hey
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> good thanks!
<Laney> it's friiiiday
<Laney> you?
<seb128> I'm fine, thanks
<seb128> ogra_, mvo_, do you know how/where is the includes.chroot livecd-rootfs used?
<ogra_> seb128, that are files that get copied into the chroot
<ogra_> before tarring it up
<seb128> ogra_, do you know what copy them? would it work for ubuntu-desktop-next as well?
<seb128> oh, seems to be  lb_chroot_includes
<ogra_> yeah, some live build script
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> the current personnal image has no /etc/hosts content
<seb128> so I guess we need to copy that dir
<seb128> ogra_, mvo_, also you might be able to help with the users/groups hackery in livecd-rootfs
<seb128> so the hooks have those /etc/groups|passwd expected content
<seb128> does it mean users don't get added the correct way later on?
<seb128> or the real issue/questions
<seb128> the lightdm postinst is supposed to add the lightdm user with an userdir /var/lib/lightdm, that doesn't seem to happen though
<seb128> the directory is missing on the image
<seb128> do you have any idea why?
<seb128> I guess it's because it thinks the user already exist, which might be due to the passwd hackery?
<mvo_> seb128: that sounds likely it depends on when exactly the scripts for the chroot run I don't know that without looking at the code
<seb128> mvo_, was that a reply for the includes or the user? ;-)
<ogra_> seb128, hmm, that shouldnt be possible unless the postinst hardcodes a UID that already exists
<mvo_> seb128: that was for lightdm
<seb128> ogra_,
<seb128> # creating lightdm user if he isn't already there
<seb128> if ! getent passwd lightdm >/dev/null; then
<seb128>         adduser --system --ingroup lightdm --home /var/lib/lightdm lightdm
<ogra_> hmm, wasnt there a --crate-home option ? that looks rather like the package ships the dir
<ogra_> (ICBW)
<seb128> ?
<seb128> no, the package doesn't ship the dir
<seb128> the adduser call creates it
<ogra_> ah, sorry ... there is a --no-create-home ...
<ogra_> it creates the dir by default
<seb128> right
<ogra_> (i think useradd was the one weher you need to call --create-home)
<ogra_> seb128, and on the resulting image, do you see lightdm in the passwd file ?
<ogra_> seems that will only fail if a lightdm user exists already
<ogra_> s/fail/skip/
<seb128> ogra_, let me check, but I think so, it's in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/ubuntu-desktop-next/hooks/00-uid-gid-fix.chroot_early and otherwise the adduser would work
<ogra_> seb128, you are missing a mkdir in your live-build/ubuntu-desktop-next/hooks/00-uid-gid-fix.chroot_early
<ogra_> (compare to live-build/ubuntu-touch/hooks/00-uid-gid-fix.chroot_early)
<seb128> ?
<seb128> ogra_, no mkdir in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/ubuntu-core/hooks/00-uid-gid-fix.chroot_early
<ogra_> (i think when i added that i wrote a long bzr commit to explain that ... )
<ogra_> seb128, thats where you need to look into touch ... core has no lightdm indeed
<seb128> oh, touch
<ogra_> pre-added users whose homedirs are created from postinst scripts need to have these dirs added from the script
<seb128> gotcha
<seb128> ogra_, that's hackish :-/
<seb128> but thanks for the pointer ;-)
<ogra_> yes, it is ... but there is no way around such getent code
<seb128> I don't understand why we need an hardcoded list of users/groups
<ogra_> at least not with the design we currently have for the passwd file handling
<seb128> rather than just getting those from the chroot
<ogra_> seb128, because packages would dynamically add the IDs during install otherwise
<seb128> and that's fine?
<ogra_> so your readonly passwd file would have changing uids
<seb128> the install is in the chroot
<seb128> and?
<seb128> who cares what the uid is
<ogra_> and your existing writable dirs would be owned by the UIDs that were existent when the image was first created
<ogra_> now if an OTA with a changed passwd file comes the ownership would be all wrong
<seb128> I see
<seb128> ogra_, thanks
<ogra_> the two options we have is either to loop over all writable dirs every update ... and potentially miss files ... (re-owning all of it) ... or make sure the passwd file never changes
 * ogra_ would be really grateful if anyone has a less hackish idea for that ... we picked the option of the two that looked less hackish and less dangerous for the user 
<ogra_> (fail at build instead of fail at OTS if something is wrong)
<ogra_> *OTA
<seb128> ogra_, right
<seb128> ogra_, mvo, do you know where is the writable-path list for snappy? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: ubuntu-core-config
<mvo> seb128: do you need to add stuff there?
<seb128> mvo, yes, /var/lib/lightdm and /var/lib/lightdm-data
<seb128> otherwise lightdm refuses to start
<seb128> can't write info about the current sessions, users, etc
<Laney> seb128: are you getting close to having it start?
<seb128> Laney, it's starting working with the items I mentioned today in the backlog
<seb128> like I hope that this livecd-rootfs upload + writable image is enough
<seb128> it enough on my vm with manual changes
<Laney> nice
<ogra_> seb128, is the livecd-rootfs side ready for upload (i just pushed my chjange to wily too and see you have a lot pending now)
<seb128> ogra_, you pushed your change to wily mean?
<ogra_> yes
<seb128> no cowboy upload right?
<ogra_> no, still UNRELEASED :)
<seb128> good
<seb128> I'm about to upload
<seb128> I had dch -r locally
<ogra_> please pull then :)
<seb128> let me pull your changes
<ogra_> good that we talked about it :)
<seb128> oh, I'm going to remove 10-remove-documentation.binary as well
<seb128> personnal can include manpages ;-)
<ogra_> yeah
<seb128> that's also going to make systemd happier
 * ogra_ would really love if that silly script didnt remove all changelogs ... painful on phones at times ...
<seb128> systemd-tmpfile-setup.service is failing because it tries to set up /var/cache/man
<ogra_> but it likely buys us 500k diskspace or some such :P
<seb128> that script is misnamed :p
<seb128> echo "I: Removing /var/lib/apt/lists/*"
<seb128> that's not documentation!
<seb128> I'm going to keep the lines to clean apt dirs
<ogra_> complain to achiang :P
<ogra_> (oem team script .. )
<ogra_> (even before oem was called pez)
<happyaron> seb128: haven't looked at it last week...
 * happyaron O_O
<Laney> mmm pez
<seb128> happyaron, k
<seb128> mvo, can I just upload ubuntu-core-config ? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: sure
<seb128> is there a vcs?
<seb128> ogra_, mvo, what does  "transition" mean?
<mvo> seb128: data is copied from the uderlaying fs iirc
<mvo> from the underlying RO parts
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> mvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11739310/ ok ?
<ogra_> looks fine
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> hopefully with that & livecd-rootfs we have a personal snappy that gives you a lightdm greeter
<seb128> unsure about unity8 yet, I did testing in kvm and mir doesn't like software rendering so unity8 doesn't start
<seb128> that's next ;-)
<ogra_> well, thats all in the homedir ... so at least you dont need to fiddle with writable bits anymore :)
<ogra_> (most likely at least)
<seb128> right
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: heya, could you consider to bump libwps in wily/main to 0.4-4 from debian experimental for me?
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, bump === sync?
<seb128> hey btw
<Laney> that's a transition
<Laney> small but still
<seb128> Laney, that's a nack?
<Laney> no, more an fyi
<seb128> k
<seb128> if it's a small one I'm sure we can manage :-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, right? ;-)
<Laney> like maybe test build stuff before doing it and/or know that lo is going to come soon
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, ^ please comment on that
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: lets just wait for LibreOffice 5.0 final upstream then.
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, wfm
<seb128> it might still be good to start test building other rdepends
<seb128> like abiword&co
<seb128> Laney, thanks for pointing it out :-)
<Sweet5hark1> this is not superurgent for me right now.
<Laney> np!
<Laney> (can of course sync into a PPA)
<Sweet5hark1> yeah, kudos to Laney for being on the watch ;)
 * Laney the archive police
<Sweet5hark1> who watches the watchmen?
<Laney> http://www.matiasvangsnes.com/wp-content/plugins/rss-poster/cache/ca4e2_20131210_Mark_Shuttleworth_LeWeb_001_610x416.jpg this guy
 * Sweet5hark1 is feeling safe now.
<seb128> lol
<seb128> hum, what's going on with proposed migration, it's being slow today?
<Laney> oh?
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt also lists half the world with nettle, I hope it doesn't mean every include livecd-rootfs is blocked
<Laney> there's a log in proposed-migration/log/
<seb128> k, no livecd-rootfs in there
<seb128> maybe next one
<seb128> it's weird that all the logs in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/log/wily/2015-06-19/ are 2.7M
<seb128> but the most recent one is 278k
<seb128> oh, it's moving, ongoing I guess
<Laney> it outputs it live
<seb128> right
<Laney> I guess you can ssh to snakefruit.canonical.com and tail -f it if you care ;-)
<seb128> k, so let's go for some errands en lunch, things hopefully are in place for an image retry once I'm back
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: btw, i just walked through all our 'isnt MIRed yet' special casing vs. debian: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/commit/?h=ubuntu-wily-5.0 -- This upstream release comes with surprisingly little new dependency madness.
<seb128> good
<Laney> Copying: livecd-rootfs/2.317
<Laney> Copying: ubuntu-core-config/0.6.22
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: if this works out good we could MIR libgltf, coinmp, libetonyek -- which would leave use with only one difference (bundling liborcus) vs. debian.
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: not super high prio for me though -- lets see how it goes.
<Laney> cyphermox: are you (or any chance you could) taking another look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1436330 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1436330 in network-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "Network Manager doesn't set metric for local networks any more, causing connection issues" [Critical,Fix committed]
<Laney> it's annoying when moving between wired and wireless
<Laney> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1445134 is also annoying :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1445134 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network manager never scanning for new access points" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> qengho, hey, are you looking at the chromium test issues?
<seb128> Laney, did the iso.qa.u.c cdimage retry issue got resolved? I just tried to trigger a rebuild for desktop-next but it's not reflecting on the cdimage side
<Laney> seb128: should be, I think stgraber said he tested it
<Laney> it's a cron which runs every 5 minutes iirc
<seb128> k
<seb128> let's wait a bit
<seb128> oh, yeah, worked ;-)
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> its there
<Laney> nice!
<Laney> go self service :-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey
<seb128> Sweet5hark, dpm was looking for you ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: kk
<seb128> dpm, ^
<Sweet5hark> dpm: Im working on it ;)
<Laney> you are hard to find
<seb128> Sweet5hark, do you have details about this libreoffice widget/toolkit? how is the rendering work? is it going to work on Mir?
<dpm> thanks seb128, Sweet5hark :)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: libreofficekit just renders into a bitmap. if your toolkit can display a bitmap (and do the offscreen-rendering/scrolling part) it will work with MIR.
<seb128> k
<Sweet5hark> seb128: the example we have in the source is plain gtk.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, do you have an url to an example of the api/code?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: speaking of gtk -- upstream LibreOffice might switch to using gtk3 by default in LibreOffice 5.0 already: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/minutes-of-ESC-call-td4151949.html
<seb128> nice
<Sweet5hark> I dont think we want to vanguard that, better stay with gtk2 by default for wily IMHO unless it is reported to be exceptionally stable.
<Sweet5hark> ^^ desrt: FYI
<dpm> Sweet5hark, do you think you might be able to finish the example app some time today so that the core app devs can start looking at it?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: example code is at https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/tree/master/libreofficekit
<Sweet5hark> dpm: will try too, no guaratuees. But I should have something in the next days.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<dpm> thanks
<desrt> Sweet5hark: interesting.
<Sweet5hark> slow backup is slow.
<Sweet5hark> or rather, I have become jaded and realize now that the 'storage is cheap, backup all the things!' strategy is bottlenecked by bandwidth.
<seb128> larsu, Laney, other wily theming issue, in eog the overlay buttons for next/previous/rotation are barely visible
<seb128> not sure if you noticed
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> thanks
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> want a bug report about that?
<Laney> oh yeah, I've not seen those buttons for a while
<seb128> on the theme or on eog?
 * Laney usually uses keys
<Laney> ye
<Laney> start with theme I guess
<seb128> k
<didrocks> grrrr, disk going crazy, doing crazy writings and locking up system suddenly
<didrocks> had to hard reboot
<seb128> still the schroot issues?
<didrocks> don't really know, I still have one remounting, but not the mountloop crazyness
<didrocks> hum, I have a bunch of:
<didrocks> juin 19 15:18:38 tidus nullmailer[2095]: Starting delivery: protocol: smtp host: mail file: 1428584426.15044
<didrocks> juin 19 15:18:38 tidus nullmailer[2095]: Starting delivery, 129 message(s) in queue.
<didrocks> juin 19 15:18:38 tidus nullmailer[3051]: smtp: Failed: Connect failed
<didrocks> juin 19 15:18:38 tidus nullmailer[2095]: Sending failed:  Host not found
<didrocks> it's anacron spamming meâ¦
<ogra_> add a GPS app so it can find the host :)
<Sweet5hark> oh great, libreoffice 5.0 fails with a flaky test on wily it seems :/
<Laney> great weekly update!
<seb128> Laney, thanks ;-)
<seb128> larsu, Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1466890
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1466890 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "eog overlay buttons wrongly themed" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> nice one
<seb128> qengho, hey, are you around today?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, question for you, I saw that bug about webbrowser/oxide not working on unity8 desktop because some env variable is not set anymore ... is the proper fix going to be land soon or should we consider setting to env back as a workaround?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, I haven't managed to find time to look at that yet. It is milestoned on https://launchpad.net/oxide/+milestone/branch-1.9, but not assigned atm
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would exporting the env you mentioned be enough to workaround it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it would
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems like we should do it then ;-)
<seb128> wooot
<seb128> ubuntu personal boots to a lightdm greeter ;-)
<seb128> for some reason it only has a "guest session" button and no user entry
<seb128> but we are getting there!
<qengho> seb128: Yep. What's up?
<qengho> seb128: I have a test fix, yes.
<qengho> My debdiffs have been strange, though.
<seb128> qengho, it was about the test fix ... can we get that in wily?
<seb128> how strange?
<bschaefer> seb128, hey, sweet i just had a question about creating a snappy personal image :) (with lightdm)
<bschaefer> seb128, did you just use ubuntu device flash to create the core image? Then push debs to it?
<qengho> seb128: just larger than I expected. I will finish pruning it.
<seb128> bschaefer, no, we are building an official snappy personal image
<seb128> qengho, k
<bschaefer> seb128, well i need to look at building a personal image with session upstart/lightdm/system compositor
<bschaefer> seb128, not really sure how to create a personal image atm (cant find things online? my googling could be poor though)
<seb128> bschaefer, why? that's what I'm working on for like 3 weeks ... that looks like duplication
<seb128> bregma, ^ what's going on?
<bschaefer> seb128, creating a kiosk snappy image is the goal
<bschaefer> seb128, sooo a bare bone system with mir + qml/qt (SDK) apps
<seb128> bschaefer, but you don't want unity8/standard apps?
<bschaefer> which looks to require a dbus session (which we will need to create a session)
<bschaefer> seb128, no unity8!
<bschaefer> but we want the apps
<seb128> shrug
<bschaefer> its a bit confusing atm...but what i understand is i just need a dbus session to please the SDK
<bschaefer> seb128, soo thats pretty much what you've made atm?
<seb128> bschaefer, no, what I made is similar to desktop-next we had, just based on snappy
<bschaefer> seb128, o right yeah... soo i was looking at doing something like that but much more minimal
<bschaefer> just need the system compositor to run mir, then a session for dbus... from there just regular apps running on it
<seb128> bschaefer, but it's not trivial "you can build locally", we added a new project to the launchpad cdimage build and livecd-rootfs, added a new device channel on the s-i server, we updated goget tools to know about this channel, etc
<seb128> unsure if you need to go through all the same things for your image
<seb128> can't you just make a framework on top of the core image?
<bschaefer> seb128, to be honest im not even sure what i need, i know i need a personal image with a few more deps
<bschaefer> installed into the core
<bschaefer> seb128, not sure how an upstart session could become a framework
<bschaefer> (doesnt it need to be started by lightdm?)
<bschaefer> soo i would need lightdm in the framework? (which would need to be started by the system upstart/systemd)
<seb128> bschaefer, I don't think framework allow to do what you need atm
<bschaefer> seb128, yeaah which would mean i would have to install these deps as part of the core image
<seb128> you might need to set up a full 3rd "kioske" image similar to core/personal then
<bschaefer> which is what i thought personal image was
<seb128> no
<seb128> personal is a desktop image
<seb128> it includes unity8
<bschaefer> sooo a personal image is exclusive to what you're doing?
<bschaefer> bregma, might be able to explain a bit more...
<seb128> it feels like naming overload
<Laney> it's more like desktop-next atm
<bschaefer> i know :(
<bregma> I think we want to set up our own "personal basic" image, no Unity 8, no indicators, none of that
<Laney> maybe eventually there will be some modular thing but that is not what this is now
<bschaefer> personal ... yeah ^
<bregma> just the compositor, LightDM, and for now upstart for session management
<seb128> bregma, I though the idea was to have 2 images, so now we want 3?
<bregma> seb128, for now, yes, but this third one is not an official one
<bregma> at least, not yet
<seb128> k, unsure how you can build it
<seb128> the tools are not really made for local hacks
<seb128> for personal we had to get the tarballs in the s-i server as an official channel
<bregma> yeah, I see that as a problem, but maybe I'm just old fashioned
<seb128> there is code tweaking the images there on the server
<seb128> also the command line tools don't understand local tarballs
<seb128> they just speak to the server
<seb128> right
<seb128> it would be better if it was otherwise
<bregma> yes
<bschaefer> that seems problematic hmm
<seb128> I'm just saying that you are going to need to improve the tools
 * bregma looks at golang like a disease
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-20
<pitti> Good morning
<tjaalton> bregma: hi, evemu upstream poked me about updating it to 2.2, can you do that in debian and sync? assigned the lp bug to you
<andyrock> morning all
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> lut pitti ! Ã§a va bien, j'ai passÃ© un bon w.e ... et toi, c'Ã©tait bien AthÃ¨ne ? t'es rentrÃ© quand ?
<pitti> seb128: oui, c'Ã©tait trÃ¨s bien, smb et moi avons visitÃ© l'Akropolis samedi
<pitti> mais c'Ã©tait aussi trÃ¨s chaud (~ 40 degrÃ¨es !)
<pitti> J'ai eu un vol tard, j'ai rentrÃ© 23:00h
<pitti> j'aime bien la nourriture grecque ! beaucoup de tomates, fÃ©ta et ouzo :-)
<didrocks> bonjour pitti & andyrock :)
<pitti> Laney: just pushed an autopkgtest update to consider dist-upgrade failures as not tempfail any more, to put an end to the snap-confine packaging error killing spree
<seb128> pitti, 40Â°C, c'est l'Ã©tÃ© en GrÃ¨ce !
<seb128> ici il pleut ...
<pitti> juin et septembre sont les plus chauds mois de l'annÃ©e, parce qu'il n'y a pas de vent
<pitti> normallement juillet et aoÃ»t sont mieux
<seb128> ah ok
<mpt> desrt, who is that Will? Iâd like to talk with someone about different positioning of radio/context vs. dropdown menus :-)
<willcooke> o/
<alexarnaud> Hey willcooke didrocks seb128 and all !
<seb128> hey willcooke, alexarnaud, "sleep 30; Laney"
<didrocks> hey alexarnaud
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<Laney> HAX
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> how is the small island today?
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, willcooke, et Laney !
<pitti> didrocks: dÃ©solÃ©, je n'ai pas te vu !
<Laney> hey
<Laney> it's really rainy yet again
<alexarnaud> didrocks: how are  you?
<seb128> :-/
<Laney> went to see the family at the weekend, that was nice
<seb128> quite rainy here today as well
<willcooke> 1st day of summer today, so I read
<Laney> i got my dad a wheelbarrow for his birthday and/or fathers day
<Laney> #dadpresents
<Laney> and henry loved being taken for rides in it
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> he'd point at someone
<Laney> and go YOU
<Laney> BROOM BROOM
<Laney> which meant you had to take him out in it
<seb128> no pictures this time?
<seb128> we go the italians nagging us with pizza instead!
<Laney> there's a video
<Laney> lemme send it
<seb128> Trevinho, your pizzas look good btw, need to cook for the team next time :-)
<Laney> how's it going willcooke & seb128 & pitti & didrocks & alexarnaud?
<pitti> Laney: back from Athens! we saw the Acropolis on Saturday, which was impressive
<pitti> (guided tour, with lots of stories)
<Laney> ah nice
<Laney> i'm jealous of your trip there
<pitti> but around midday it was about 40 degrees, so we stopped the tourism and hung out in a nice tavern
<Laney> 40!
<didrocks> good morning Laney! :)
<didrocks> pitti: pas de problÃ¨me, j'Ã©tais en mode incognito ;)
 * pitti wonders who that shady person in the dark corner is
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> staring at *you*
<pitti> *shudder*
<Trevinho> Morning
<Trevinho> seb128: eheh, you and the whole team is invited... We can do a sprint in the Tuscany countryside. :-D
<Laney> summer sprint
<seb128> Trevinho, hey!
<seb128> that's tempting :-)
<Trevinho> :-)
<Trevinho> Yeah, no fancy hotel... But who needs that? We have better life
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yes, was barbequeing all weekend at my brothers place because of his birthday. ;)
<seb128> nice
<Sweet5hark> seb128: how was yours?
<seb128> quite nice
<seb128> I played tennis on friday evening
<seb128> we did a bike trip on saturday and got rained over...
<seb128> and mostly relaxed yesterday
<seb128> and enjoyed a sunny sunday
<seb128> today is back to rainy :-/
<Laney> summer solstice
<Laney> today we start the journey back towards winter
<Laney> ;-)
<pitti> we weren't even halfway there!
<seb128> Laney, tomorrow!
<seb128> in fact today for you and tomorrow for us :p
<Laney> heh
<Odd_Bloke> Hello all! I've just filed a bug about an audio issue I'm having (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1594296) and was wondering if anyone would be able to triage it to determine if there's any more info I could provide to help sort it out. :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1594296 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "[USB-Audio - USB Sound Device, playback] Occasional audio playback blips from Sweex 7.1 external USB card" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> Odd_Bloke, TheMuso might be able to help you but he's .au based and might have valled it a day already
<Odd_Bloke> seb128: OK, thanks. :)
<seb128> Odd_Bloke, yw, you could also try to open a bug directly upstream on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=PulseAudio
<seb128> though unsure if that's rather a pulseaudio or kernel bug
<willcooke> Odd_Bloke, I see (hear) a similar issue, but only in Chrome/Chromium - so I'd put it down to a problem there
<willcooke> e.g. Rhythmbox never does it
<Odd_Bloke> willcooke: Oh, interesting.
<willcooke> Odd_Bloke, I'll do some more playing here and see if I can get Rb to do the same thing under load
<Odd_Bloke> Yeah, I'll try using an alternative media player.
<Laney> oh man
<Laney> Debconf week is also Nottingham Craft Beer week :(
<Odd_Bloke> OK, I'm not seeing audio issues with other players.
<Odd_Bloke> Uh... "seeing". Â¬.Â¬
<seb128> Laney, :-(
<willcooke> Odd_Bloke, ah, oki - so yeah, it does seem to be something between Cr. and Alsa.  I'll see if qengho can take a poke around in there and TheMuso can offer some insights too.  Once we've got the snappy bits tied up
<qengho> Hmm.
<qengho> Wow, apparently tar parameter order changed meanings in Y. That took forever to discover. :(
<qengho> If you have  "tar cf x.tar dir --exclude=foo", it doesn't do what you expect any more.
<Odd_Bloke> willcooke: Thanks! :)
<pitti> hmm, I wanted to search whether glib can do globbing, but https://www.google.de/search?q=glib+glob isn't very helpful :)
<seb128> lol
<ogra_> you could connect to it on facebook though :)
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-Glob-style-pattern-matching.html
<didrocks> pitti: ^
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, already found that; I just found the other results funny :)
<didrocks> it was just in case you were still watching videos ;)
<pitti> actually I think the normal glibc glob(3) is what I want
<didrocks> waow, I had no idea glibc had this
<pitti> https://www.google.de/search?q=glibc+glob isn't nearly as funny though
 * Sweet5hark mumbles http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/regex/ 
<didrocks> indeed :)
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: you and your C++! :)
 * pitti mutters something about C++ and "don't like"
<pitti> GLOB_APPEND!
<pitti> that's great, so I first glob for /etc/network/config and then /etc/network/config.d* and I exactly get what I need
<desrt> good morning, ubuntus
<Sweet5hark> didrocks, pitti: I was quite quite amazed that for the C++11 standard they apparently just gave up and said "uhm, the standard is so fat, whatevs at this point, lets just dump a whole regexp engine in there ..."
<seb128> hey desrt
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: haha, excellent!
<didrocks> hey desrt
 * desrt resumes a somewhat normal existence after a very awesome hackfest week
<Laney> ahoy desrt
<Laney> good weekend?
<willcooke> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<willcooke> I'm not going to be here to vote for Bremain
<seb128> is it easy to mandate somebody to vote for you?
<willcooke> just phoning them now
<seb128> if Britain exits it's going to your fault
<seb128> +be
<willcooke> :(((
<desrt> we have an important vote here today, too
 * desrt needs to make her voice heard
<seb128> desrt, what are you still doing on the computer? go and vote!
<seb128> don't be like willcooke :p
<desrt> (by-election for trustee for the toronto district school board for ward 14.  critical vote, this one.)
 * seb128 stops trolling willcooke
<seb128> it's not friday yet
<desrt> :D
<desrt> what ever happened to learn-something fridays?
<desrt> btw: last week i learnt about a wonderful library called pyparsing.  it is The Shitâ¢
<seb128> it fall over when larsu left
<seb128> see
<desrt> :(
<seb128> larsu was around you and you had it!
<desrt> while technically true, the actual cause was alex
 * larsu still doesn't like the format you came up with, regardless of awesomeness of the library :P
<larsu> hey eveyone :)
<seb128> hey larsu!
<larsu> 'sup?
<seb128> how are you? back in Germany?
<seb128> had fun at the hackfest?
<larsu> yes and yes, very much
<larsu> was good to see everyone again - especially desrt in her "new" apartment
<seb128> did you go to Khao San Road? ;-)
<desrt> :)
<larsu> nope, but salad king
<desrt> khao san road is a total no-go for large groups
<larsu> yeah...
<seb128> right
<desrt> we did salad king, keg, made in china, mill street brew pub in the distillery district, banh mi boys, cora, loblaws
<desrt> *keg mansion
<larsu> and bulk barn!!!
<desrt> lol
<desrt> seb128: we spent some time thinking about you as well.  you should come back some time :)
<desrt> i have a very nice guestroom that two can comfortably stay in
 * larsu can very much confirm that
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> willcooke: proxy deadline was 15th
<Laney> there's some emergency provision though
<Laney> which you can use up to the day itself
<Laney> https://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/177407/FORMS-Emergency-occupation-Proxy-MAY16.pdf
<willcooke> Laney, filling a form in right now :) thank
<willcooke> s
<Laney> 5 days before the election though
<Laney> that's one last minute sprint
<Laney> :)
<Laney> 6 days*
<ogra_> 6 ?
<ogra_> i thought it is on thu
<Laney> ??????????
<Laney> oh
<Laney> to apply for this emergency proxy vote you have to have found out that you'll be required to be away for work 6 working days or less before the vote
<Laney> otherwise you should have known and applied normally, I guess
<desrt> so we're all voting "Leave", right?
 * desrt heard something about Making Britain Great Again
<pitti> "leave it as it is", yeah :)
<desrt> (nothing says "Great" Britain quite like a vote to set into motion an independent Scotland and an early Irish reunification...)
<Laney> in the past week I've noticed more remain posters appearing in the area
<desrt> :)
<willcooke> \o/
<Laney> also remain was always ahead at the bookmakers
<desrt> could be observation bias :)
<Laney> those guys know better than pollsters
<desrt> ya... bookmakers are awesome
<Laney> there's 1 leave poster on the street that's been there all the time
<Laney> no new ones
<Laney> could be shy leavers though
<Laney> nobody wants to get their windows bricked in
<Laney> :P
 * desrt is not in favour of the use of bricks (or the implicit threat thereof) being part of a political campaign, regardless of which side is involved
<chrisccoulson> Laney, lucky you - I've not seen a single remain poster around here :/
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson! how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128. I'm not too bad thanks. How about you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, had fun in Greece?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it was ok. If you ignore the cigarette smoke and mosquitoes everywhere ;)
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you visit a bit?
<seb128> or did you fly back at the end of the work week?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, I didn't - I arrived on sunday evening and left again on saturday morning
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I actually smelled more weed than cigarettes :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, heh, I noticed that a few times
<desrt> mpt: meet attente
<mpt> O_o
<desrt> (in response to your earlier question)
<desrt> he's off today, though
<mpt> So thatâs what attente looks like in real life
<desrt> pretty much, ya
<yw> hello all, I am new and was playing with 16.04/unity for last several days, as a result when I use super key, my mouse clicks in the dash don't work, wondering if there is a simple solution to this problem?
<seb128> yw, hey, try #ubuntu for user questions, but I don't think that's a known issue
<yw> seb128 - thx I posted there as well, nut thought that 'desktop' chat maybe a better bet
<seb128> yw, what are you doing exactly? you press super once to open the dash and then use the mouse to go and left click and it doesn't work?
<yw> seb128 - exactly
<seb128> does it work to click on indicators or other desktop components?
<seb128> or on the launcher
<yw> yes it seems like it even clicks under the dash area, but not on the items in the dash
<seb128> and it works if you open the dash by clicking on the launcher icon?
<yw> yes only won't work on items in the dash search area or on filters
<seb128> weird
<seb128> it does it every time?
<yw> yup
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, hikiko, ^ did you see such reports before?
<Trevinho> Let me check
<Trevinho> yw: Mh... Never saw that...
<Trevinho> yw: is the launcher getting events when dash open?
<yw> Trevinho: i can type and items get found and I can tab and select/run with enter, but not with mouse
<Trevinho> yw: both for dash and launcher..
<yw> only for the dash
<seb128> pitti, I think we discussed that once, but what job is supposed to clean the journal if you are low on disk?
<pitti> seb128: journald itself usually
<seb128> I was under 1G for a week and hit a few times ENOSPACE on builds
<seb128> and
<seb128> $ du -lsh /var/log/journal/
<seb128> 2,3G	/var/log/journal/
<pitti> I don't see an existing bug for this; mind filing one?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> interesting
<seb128> $ journalctl -u systemd-journald.service
<seb128> juin 20 08:20:45 seb-e6410 systemd-journald[251]: Runtime journal (/run/log/journal/) is 4.8M, max 39.0M, 34.1M free.
<seb128> juin 20 08:20:45 seb-e6410 systemd-journald[251]: Journal started
<seb128> juin 20 08:20:45 seb-e6410 systemd-journald[251]: System journal (/var/log/journal/) is 2.2G, max 2.2G, 0B free.
<seb128> juin 20 08:20:46 seb-e6410 systemd-journald[251]: Time spent on flushing to /var is 822.429ms for 895 entries.
<seb128> that used to be more verbose according the log
<seb128> pitti, want the bug on fdo or launchpad?
<pitti> seb128: there's no fdo any more, it's https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues
<pitti> seb128: but I think LP for now, I'll investigate this first
<seb128> k
<pitti> maybe we are doing something stupid somewhere
<ricotz> wtf
<ricotz> hey desktopers, nice find
<ricotz> 4,2G	/var/log/journal/
<seb128> ricotz, hey
<seb128> ricotz, it's supposed to adapt the free space, are you low on disk?
<ricotz> not at all, still seems quite large
<ricotz>  /dev/sda1       211G     46G  156G   23% /
<seb128> yeah, that might be wanted though (not saying it shouldn't be changed)
<seb128> but in my case I'm hitting ENOSPACE and it's supposed to lower its use in that case
<pitti> the size alone #SystemMaxUse=
<ricotz> I recently replaced it and it was 120G formerly
<pitti> #SystemKeepFree=
<seb128> which seems to not happen here
<pitti> hm, these don't appear to have default values any more
<pitti> seb128: can you try setting SystemKeepFree=10% in /etc/systemd/journald.conf and restart systemd-journald (or reboot), and see if that helps?
<pitti> actually, 15% is the supposed default according to the manpage
<ricotz> what is the default for SystemMaxUse= ?
<pitti> 10%
<pitti> and whichever is the smaller one should win
<ricotz> I see
<seb128> pitti, that doesn't work
<seb128>  /dev/sda1                71G     64G  3,0G  96% /
<seb128> juin 20 17:46:19 seb-e6410 systemd-journald[16287]: System journal (/var/log/journal/) is 2.2G, max 2.6G, 420.5M free.
<seb128> ah
<seb128> pitti, https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/journald.conf.html
<seb128> "This means that if there was enough free space before and journal files were created, and subsequently something else causes the file system to fill up, journald will stop using more space, but it will not be removing existing files to reduce the footprint again, either."
<pitti> yeah, I saw that in the manpage, but if you restart journald that should be re-computed?
<seb128> pitti, so it just doesn't use more but doesn't clean/purge
<seb128> well
<pitti> oh, hmm
<seb128> my understand of reading that is that it doesn't clean up old datas
<pitti> but that's fairly bd
<seb128> so if you have 2G logs and hit low space it doesn't use more than the 2G
<pitti> bad
<seb128> but doesn't go down to less
<seb128> right
<pitti> le gratin est prÃªt -- c'est l'heure pour le dÃ®ner !
<seb128> pitti, bon appÃ©tit !
<pitti> still nice and warm outside, so dinner in the garden :)
<seb128> lucky you
<seb128> strong rainy day here
<seb128> it's almost nonstop since this morning
<seb128> cold as well, had to put a sweater
<pitti> we'll have that tomorrow again
<pitti> but looks like Wed to Fri is going to be really nice
<pitti> we were going to watch the game outside tomorrow evening (public viewing at a street food festival), I hope that'll work
<Trevinho> 27Â° here...
<seb128> Trevinho, Mr I've the good pizza, the sea and the nice weather!
<Trevinho> seb128: fly here, you won't regret it
<seb128> I should consider it
<seb128> not this week though, already have a trip to Boston
<Trevinho> At least for few days during the summer
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> night!
<willcooke> cya Laney
<seb128> night Laney
<seb128> night
<robert_ancell> willcooke, sorry... I forgot again
<willcooke> hey robert_ancell
<willcooke> nw, I was deep in Snappy anyway
<qengho> Good morning!
<willcooke> hey qengho
<willcooke> night all
<TheMuso> Odd_Bloke, willcooke, I'll bet chrome doesn't use pulse directly, and uses alsa in a way that is incompatible with the alsa pulse plugin. :)
<TheMuso> Mind you, firefox is the same, although I think firefox uses alsa properly...
<TheMuso> Its disappointing that these browsers still do not use pulseaudio natively after all this time.
<qengho> TheMuso: I do'nt understand this yet, but GOOG Chrome and chromium bith use pulse directly.
<qengho> $ pacmd list-clients |grep -i \\.name.*chrom
<qengho> 		application.name = "Chrome input"
<qengho> 		application.name = "Chromium"
<qengho> 		application.name = "Chrome input"
<qengho> 		application.name = "Chrome"
<TheMuso> qengho: Interesting. Why do I not see a libpulse dependency for chromium-browser?
<TheMuso> Does chrome itself depend on libpulse?
<qengho> Hmm, static link, perhaps.
<TheMuso> In which case thats disgusting.
<TheMuso> But yeah probably.
<TheMuso> I never think of that due to most stuff being built against system libs.
<qengho> TheMuso: Hmm, I'm looking at it, and it looks like it should bot sstatically link. I'll investigate more.
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-21
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ping
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Yo, pong.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, the file-roller SRU has stopped phased updates due to https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/a595b32f105a3f7cb708c518855658d3e48eea2c
<robert_ancell> Looking at it the problem seems unrelated (failing to make a temporary directory) and no worse than before
<robert_ancell> So hoping you can continue the SRU rollout
<RAOF> Hm. I'm actually not sure how to do that.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, it said ask ~ubuntu-sru :)
<robert_ancell> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html if it helps
<RAOF> bdmurray would know about this :)
<RAOF> Also, ahem. Nothing dodgy *at all* in that backtrace...
<RAOF> :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, it's just not *my* dodgy
<robert_ancell> oh, the filename
<robert_ancell> must be quite popular at the moment
<RAOF> :)
<robert_ancell> file-roller has the best backtraces
<RAOF> robert_ancell: file-roller should start rephasing now.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, awesome, thanks.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, what do you do to restart it? Some magic script?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I reset it to 30% phasing, and the current thinking is that'll restart the process and get it to slowly phase up to 100%.
<RAOF> Yeah, in ubuntu-archive-tools.
<jbicha> what happens if you don't do that?
<jbicha> like, I was annoyed this weekend about gnome-shell being stopped in xenial's phased updating
<RAOF> It's blocked at 0% phasing - it doesn't appear as an update for anyone.
<jbicha> but if I didn't say anything would it eventually start up again maybe or what?
<RAOF> If you don't say anything it'll sit unused in -updates.
<jbicha> ok, the 3 people affected all had the glib from -proposed, 2 were using lightdm and 1 using sddm
<RAOF> Wow. Are there really so few gnome-shell users reporting to errors.ubuntu.com that the gnome-shell bug is only ever seen on LTS releases?
<jbicha> lol
<RAOF> It's glorious: 1 on 12.04, 6 on 14.04, 3 on 16.04.
<jbicha> it's a "long term support" bug
<jbicha> glib for xenial is no longer complaining of autopkgtest failures http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<jbicha> I wonder how that was fixed
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 ! tu te lÃ¨ve trop !
 * pitti a travaillÃ© Ã  0:30h hier nuit, j'ai encore un peu fatiguÃ©
<pitti> mais j'ai gagnÃ© contre NetworkManager :)
<qengho> Hi hi hi, seb128.
<qengho> Hiya, pitti.
<pitti> hey qengho!
<seb128> hey qengho
<seb128> pitti, ouais, mais j'ai pas travaillÃ© jusqu'Ã  minuit donc Ã§a va ;-)
<seb128> pitti, what do you do on n-m?
<pitti> seb128: qu'est-ce que la diffÃ©rence contre "oui" et "ouais" ?
<pitti> seb128: I'm working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-y-network-yaml
<pitti> seb128: i. e. generating NM configurations from YAML
<seb128> pitti, "ouais" c'est "oui" en plus familier/slang
<pitti> seb128: ah, comme "yeah"?
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, seb128, qengho
<seb128> right
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi, ta bataille contre NM? ;)
<pitti> didrocks: oui; NM est encore fort (bug 1594551), mais je vais gagner !
<ubot5> bug 1594551 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "keyfile plugin: Read /run/NetworkManager/system-connections/" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1594551
<didrocks> ahah ;)
 * qengho has two bugs to file against NM, one day.
<seb128> pitti, , my SRU hero
<pitti> :)
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> morning
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how is it going?
<Trevinho> Morning
<seb128> hey Trevinho! what are you doing in a normal europeen tz? ;-)
<Trevinho> Hi Laney, seb128, willcooke
<Trevinho> seb128: ahah
<qengho> willcooke: 'sup.
<seb128> willcooke and Laney are having tea and snobbing us european
<seb128> ready to brexit I see!
<willcooke> I'm now registered for a proxy vote - so we are all saved!
<seb128> Trevinho, did you see that the xenial compiz SRU is blocked on new e.u.c reports that needs to be reviewed/flagged as regression or not?
<seb128> willcooke, oh, you managed to pull that out? did you blame Canonical for sending you abroad? ;-)
<willcooke> indeed :)
<seb128> well done sir!
<Laney> mmm tea
<willcooke> It was quite easy really; fill out the form, print it, sign it, scan it, send it to cvd, she prints it, signs it, scans it, sends it back.  I then email it to the local council, and got an email back at 0830 this morning saying it's all done.  Pretty impressive for a local authority.
<Laney> they googled you and decided how you were going to vote
<Laney> that determines which filing cabinet the request goes in
<willcooke> :D
<Trevinho> seb128: Yes, I promptly replied to the warning email, but still...
<willcooke> In tea news:  I have Yorkshire Gold Tea - it's proper nice tea.
<seb128> Trevinho, did you get any reply from bdmurray? maybe let him know on #ubuntu-devel as well
<Trevinho> seb128: they're not regressions though
<Trevinho> seb128: no replies. I'll ping him
<willcooke> Laney, did my progress bar  "fixes" have bugs?
<Laney> not that I know of
<Laney> why?
<willcooke> oh, I see now, there is a new branch for 16.04
<Laney> ya
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<seb128> happyaron, how is the nm-applet update going? you said "tomorrow" on thursday
<happyaron> seb128: hey
<happyaron> sorry guys will give you today
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you keep saying that for 3 weeks :p
<seb128> what's the issue?
<seb128> are you blocking on something specific? can I help?
<seb128> or just too much other work?
<happyaron> not blocked actually, but I was thinking n-m itself is not uploaded so the applet is not in a real hurry...
<Laney> weird
<Laney> most of my gstreamer uploads didn't appear anywhere
<Laney> just one random one
<seb128> happyaron, we discussed that a month ago and said that the applet didn't need the nm upload, also n-m 1.2.2 is in yakkety so that claim isn't true
<seb128> Laney, the vaapi update didn't need to build with the new gst version?
<happyaron> true. I should change my mind to do that in parallel..
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<seb128> happyaron, also please look at the e.u.c summary on the page indicated in the email I forwarded you, the current SRUs for nm/nmapplet are not rolled out to users because those e.u.c reports need to be invistigated
<Laney> no
<seb128> happyaron, I had a look, I think one of the bug might be new, it's a assert on s_con, which I guess might be because the other assert was removed and we hit similar errors further now
<Laney> but it probably wants a rebuild after the rest is uploaded
<seb128> happyaron, should be reported upstream
<happyaron> ok
<seb128> Laney, k
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<happyaron> ty
<seb128> happyaron, can you look at those today or tomorrow? because in practice it means atm nobody gets the SRU even if it has been copied to -updates
<happyaron> doing now
<seb128> great
<happyaron> so they are discovered during the phased update?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> the system stops the rollout when errors are reported on the new version without existing on the previous ones
<happyaron> ok
<seb128> woot Laney gst uploads made it this time!
<Laney> weird
<seb128> Laney, did you figure out what went wrong yesterday?
<Laney> the .uploads looked right
<Laney> i just did it again
<seb128> iz launchpad bog
<Laney> looks like the keyserver went down at just the wrong time
<Laney> 17:59 BST last night
<Laney> 17:53
<seb128> where did you get that info?
<Laney> lurking in is channels
<seb128> I see
<seb128> that explains it, so all good ;-)
<alexarnaud> hey seb128 willcooke didrocks Trevinho and all !
<Trevinho> hi alexarnaud
<seb128> hey alex
<seb128> hey alexarnaud
<ayan> is there a way to configure ubuntu to mount USB devices as read-only?  it would be nice to have, for example, SD cards mounted read-only with the option of asking to remount them as rw later.
<seb128> ayan, you can probably tweak fstab, I don't know of a standard way, unsure that's common ... what's the usecase/reason?
<ayan> seb128: apparently small writes occur to SD cards even if i'm simply copying data from the card.
<seb128> is that some desktop service? like thumbnails or temp files or something?
<ayan> so, of course, if i just yank out the card without properly syncing, unmounting, etc. -- i can corrupt the device.
<ayan> this has happened a couple of times to me.  the result is that, at least for exfat, the checksum for the volume boot record gets corrupted.
<seb128> :-/
<ayan> ya -- i think it is thumbnails.  i have gnome-raw-thumbnailer installed.  the problem seems to coincide.
<ayan> but i haven't verified it.
<willcooke> Laney, might have just found a niggle with those border changes.  Take a look at a toggle switch, the background seems to stick out further than the border.  Might need to drop border images for those and replace them?
<seb128> dunno about standard way to do it sorry
<seb128> ok lunch time, bbl
<ayan> seb128: okay. thanks.
<willcooke> Laney, http://imgur.com/87jlkLt
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Sebastien, you mentioned adding "X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack" to some packages (evolution, brasero, ...?). A full langpack export for xenial will happen next weekend, so now would be a good time to do it. I suppose it would be possible to keep them in -proposed until around July 14, when the language packs will be moved to -updates.
<alexarnaud> TheMuso: hello :) !
<alexarnaud> TheMuso: do you try debian/ubuntu on the Raspberry Pi ? I've tried one week ago, everything work perfectly expect speech-dispatcher. It seems there are permissions issue with pulseaudio, do you know something about that ?
<alexarnaud> I think the RPi could be a good PC for our customer.
<Laney> willcooke: Which border changes?
<willcooke> the ones related to the progress bar changes
<ayan> seb128: i know writing is fairly common but i think simply reading from USB devices is probably most common.  maybe i'm the only one inconveniced by this but it seems reasonable in general to mount stuff as read-only until you've declared that you want to be able to write to it.  that would at least allow me to yank SD cards out of my computer without worry. :P
<Laney> Shouldn't think those would affect that
<Laney> I have 14.04+16.10.20160613-0ubuntu1 and it looks the same to me
<Laney> I think
<willcooke> Laney, with the little overlap?
<andyrock> morning all
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/overlap.png
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<willcooke> Laney, same.  Looks broken to me.  I have a fix for consideration.  I'll put a branch up and see what you think?
<Laney> cool
<willcooke> boo, doesnt work for Radiance
<Trevinho> Laney: is it a known issue that gedit in your ppa is broken, right=
<Trevinho> ?
<Laney> there is no gedit in that ppa
<willcooke> why must you taunt me CSS?
<willcooke> boom!  In your face CSS
<willcooke> Laney, I've updated the progress-bars branch with a fix.  I don't get why its needed since the inspector says the borders are already 1px.   Anyway, it does work.  I've tested with widget factory in a guest session and everything seems ok to me.
<willcooke> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/progress-bars/revision/484
<willcooke> err
<willcooke> s**t
<willcooke> one sec
<Laney> willcooke: can you do a different branch please?
<Laney> that one is uploaded
<willcooke> ah, kk
<Laney> and it's a different problem
<Laney> and SRU bug if it should be srued
<willcooke> Laney, did an uncommit, is that right?
<willcooke> Do I need to push that too?
<Laney> if you want to fix the old branch you can
<Laney> it's not that important
<willcooke> I'll just start a new one
<Laney> you can merge trunk and then push it somewhere else
<willcooke> Laney, sorry was otp - so a "bzr uncommit" is all that's needed?
<Laney> bzr merge lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-themes/ubuntu; bzr commit; bzr push lp:~...
<Laney> to remove it from the progressbars branch it is uncommit, then push --overwrite
<willcooke> Laney, thanks. Have push --overwrite back to the progess bars branch, so that should be clean again
<willcooke> will start a new branch for this gtkswitch stuff
<Laney> neat
<Laney> although the progressbars one is merged
<Laney> so you could also delete it if you want
<Sweet5hark> seb128: around?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yes!
<Sweet5hark> so, I stole some ideas from the gnome-calculator-snap thingie.
<seb128> I can recommend that ;-)
<willcooke> we call it forking, not stealing.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: and that uses something like "plugin: [copy]\n stage-packages: [gnome-calculator...]\n". Are you sure this copies files directly from those packages and not from the build OS?
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: forking is the beginning, spooning is what people do on github. Im training myself at knifing now ...
<willcooke> spork!
<Sweet5hark> seb128: because I use the copy plugin here (for fonts and jre), and realized it copies from the host os in my case (noticed because I tried to build on a virgin machine, were the stuff was missing on the host).
<Sweet5hark> seb128: not yet an issue for the result if the host is xenial too, butt otherwise ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yes, stage packages are unpacked in parts/
<Sweet5hark> FWIW, I wonder if the copy plugin should ever be allowed to put something in the snap from anywhere but the snap build dir and its subdirs. Everything else likely is just wrong anyway.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, but that could be plugin: nil
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ah, hmm, good point.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, the stage-packages don't rely on the plugin
 * Sweet5hark tries to play with that.
<seb128> you are right using the copy one is confusing there
<willcooke> ls
<seb128> willcooke, Work/ Images/ Porn/
<ogra_> file not found
<willcooke> oops
<willcooke> cd porn
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> Somebody please implement window focus follows where I'm looking.  For all our sakes.
<willcooke> Maybe I should switch on focus-follows-pointer again
<seb128> does it work with unity nowadays?
<ogra_> FFB ?
<ogra_> focus follows brain
<willcooke> seb128, not very well I think
<willcooke> ogra_, yes!  Please make that!
<ogra_> sure, i just need to drill a hole in your head for the electrodes if you dont mind :)
<willcooke> I was reading a story about just that thing yesterday
<qengho> ogra_: plz try the web-cam eyeball tracking, BEFORE the treppanning. plz.
<ogra_> qengho, yeah, just need to glue a potentiometer to your eye-ball
<ogra_> well, two actually ... since it is two-axis
<willcooke> oh, hold on, we added eviacam to the archive last cycle I think
<ogra_> pfft ... cameras ... not direct enough ... that wont give you much precision
<willcooke> :) fair enough.  Off with the top of my head then.
<ogra_> :)
<desrt> good morning everyone
<desrt> an interesting read: http://www.vox.com/2016/6/21/11974600/brexit-eu-euro-disaster
<desrt> a pretty good argument on why UK "leave" is the best option for everyone
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> tl;dr: UK doesn't want to be "ever closer" but the rest of the EU *needs* to be "ever closer" so the UK should get out of the way of blocking that from happening
<desrt> morning seb :D
<seb128> desrt, is there a env variable to tell apps where they should look for the dconf database?
<larsu> isn't it just in XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<larsu> ?
<seb128> larsu, it's ~/.config/dconf/user by default no? so the config dir
<seb128> not the runtime
<seb128> would a symlink there to the real location work?
<seb128> I guess I can try that
<larsu> hm, there's /run/user/1000/dconf/user as well
 * larsu is clueless and should shut up
<seb128> larsu, I think that's only used to write a temp file during writes
<seb128> that's not where you user config is stored
<larsu> ah
<seb128> larsu, anyway, the issue is snaps have a private userdir, you can get optional access to the real userdir but when you do that it's available under another location ... we have an interface that gives access to the dconf session service (as a temp workaround until we get a proper proxy), that works but the value is written in the real session but the snapped app doesn't see it since it mmap its local unmodified version
<seb128> which is a bit ironic
<seb128> you can change the real system config
<seb128> but not your own :p
<larsu> haha :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Did you see my mentioning of the coming langpack build (right after you had left for lunch)?
<desrt> seb128: there are a few possibilities
<desrt> seb128: but none of them allow you to directly specify the path of a single database with an environment variable... you have to write a profile...
<seb128> desrt, would a symlink work?
<desrt> no.
<seb128> :-(
<desrt> you need a profile
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey, yeah I saw that, I don't think we need to coordinate, if those are in the langpack update great, then we can land an update for the apps to re-use the langpack any time later
<desrt> writing a profile is pretty easy though... the slightly harder part is syncing up the requirements with the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR stuff, at the same time
<seb128> remind me what happens if we don't have XDG_RUNTIME_DIR?
<desrt> we add XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<GunnarHj> seb128: But those packages aren't built for langpacks currently, are they?
<seb128> or if the snap one points to an empty dir
<desrt> because shit be broken if we don't have it
<seb128> what sort of issues are we talking about?
<desrt> but in the case of dconf, uhm... i'm going to say that it means that you will successfully read the contents of the dconf database at app startup but you won't see any changes after that
<seb128> I think it was an issue with nfs and weird fs
<desrt> even if you get change signals over dbus, you will continue to see the old values
<desrt> dconf uses this directory for a 'database has changed' flag
<seb128> GunnarHj, what does "built for langpacks" mean? are the corresponding domain in your new export?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Built with the "X-Langpack-something..." variable in d/control. I don't know how to see the data which will be included in the export.
<GunnarHj> seb128: You seem to have dropped "X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack" in the latest evolution build, for instance. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/3.18.5.2-0ubuntu3
<seb128> GunnarHj, right, that doesn't reply to my question though
<seb128> GunnarHj, is evolution-3.18.mo in the current langpacks export?
<GunnarHj> seb128: looking...
<seb128> GunnarHj, or did we get a new export yet since xenial?
<GunnarHj> seb128: No exports have been made use of since the xenial release.
<seb128> k
<seb128> I understand your question now
<seb128> dpm, pitti, can you remind me how langpackomatic builds up the list of domains to include in the langpacks?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I'm not pitti or dpm, but I know how it works for ubuntu-docs: If it's built in xenial-proposed before the language packs are generated, then it will be included.
<GunnarHj> seb128: Assumed it works similarly for 'normal' packages.
<pitti> seb128: the LP exports contain a mapping.txt which give a domainname â sourcepackage map
<seb128> pitti, can we ask for a package in universe that doesn't use "X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack" to be included?
<pitti> seb128: and langpack-o-matic downloads main's+restricted's Sources.gz and filters those packages plus the universe ones with X-Ubuntu-Use-LP: from that map
<pitti> seb128: well, that tag is precisely for doing that
<seb128> pitti, it's use the sources.gz from proposed?
<pitti> seb128: no, only from -release ATM, but of course we could change that
<pitti> actually, no, this was bogus
<pitti> langpack-o-matic doesn't look for that tag
<pitti> LP itself already filters on the component apparently, hang on
<pitti> this is waaaay too long ago
<seb128> pitti, remember that bug that made langpack-o-matic not use universe indexes and miss evolution/universe packages?
<pitti> seb128: yes, that got fixed
<seb128> right
<seb128> we still didn't get an export since though
<seb128> so we removed X-Ubuntu-Use-LP from evolution as a workaround in a SRU
<pitti> I think GunnarHj is planning one now for next week
<seb128> right
<seb128> the question is how do we get evolution to be in the export
<seb128> since we removed "X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack"
<seb128> do we do a SRU adding it back and keep that in proposed
<seb128> but is that enough? would need langpackomatic to look at the flag in proposed
<pitti> seb128: it's actually pkgstriptranslations which does that, and as it happens during package build, yes
<pitti> I'm not entirely sure if the LP translation importer cares about domains
<pitti> but I doubt it
<pitti> it doesn't care about the static translations (ubunt-docs) either
<seb128> well, importer is not the issue
<seb128> like if the domain is in the langpacks we can rebuild evolution later to go back to using those translations instead of shipping them
<seb128> the issue is to make sure the next langpack export includes the evolution-3.18.mo
<seb128> which is something on the exporter side or langpack builder
<seb128> right?
<willcooke> Laney, new branch and MP for the gtkswitch: https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/gtkswitchoverflow/+merge/298028
<willcooke> might be nice for 16.04.01
<pitti> seb128: right, mainly striptranslations/LP import+export
<pitti> seb128: so, having it in -proposed seems fine
<seb128> pitti, k, thanks
<seb128> GunnarHj, so yeah, seems like we should got those in proposed this week, I can do that ... do you know of others than brasero and evolution?
<GunnarHj> seb128: I haven't really considered it. Another package which was moved to universe is Empathy.
<seb128> that got rebuilt since, it has integrated translations, but maybe it would be good to go back to launchpad ones
<GunnarHj> seb128: Don't think I have much input here. Suppose that we are talking about programs which are often installed and where it's considered desirable that the translations are as updated as possible.
<seb128> yeah, also programs that might need translations
<seb128> empathy didn't change much in recent cycles and come from GNOME which has good translation teams
<seb128> so I would expect the included translations to be in good state
<GunnarHj> seb128: Aha, get it.
<seb128> desrt, so dconf profiles ... how do I write one that say to load the user db from /randomdir?
<seb128> desrt, https://help.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/dconf-profiles.html.en doesn't help me much
<GunnarHj> seb128: The criteria for choosing those programs aren't obvious. For instance, the Swedish translation team tries to translate upstream as much as possible, and uses LP mostly for Ubuntu specific stuff. Hence the translation coverage is good anyway. My guess is that that's how the most active translation teams work.
<seb128> right
<seb128> GunnarHj, it's important for e.g evolution because we have distro patches that add strings for the indicator/unity launcher so those aren't translated when using the upstream translations
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, patches with translatable strings is indeed a good reason.
<desrt> seb128: this is a bit of a complicated question too
<desrt> seb128: the first problem is that you have to know what the user's profile was to start with
<desrt> but let's assume it's the default
<desrt> next question: how much do you want to share?
<desrt> if you want change support, for example, and the ability to write, you probably want a "user-db:user" line in the profile
<seb128> desrt, that's the unity7/legacy/unconfined case, I want to do like today on xorg
<willcooke> Meeting about to start :)
<seb128> right
<willcooke> sorry
<desrt> then you need to bindmount the user's ~/.config/dconf dir _and_ the user's xdg_runtime_dir/dconf dir
<desrt> *not* the files.. the dirs.
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 21 15:30:14 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic:
<willcooke> We're on our way back towards winter. \o/
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong, happyaron (out), hikiko, laney, qengho (out), seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<Trevinho> \o
<andyrock> o/
<desrt> o/
 * Sweet5hark reporting in.
<FJKong> --. .-
<FJKong> GA
<seb128> hey
<Laney> moo
<willcooke> oki, lets go...
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> #1. Proposed a branch for "[BUG:1460649] Can't unlock screen with last day password (before expired)"
<andyrock> #2. Almost completed  "[BUG:1593696] Unity Lockscreen fails to show warnings on expiring passwords."
<andyrock> #3. Reviews
<andyrock> eof
<willcooke> #4 Pizza
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<andyrock> ahaha
<willcooke> andyrock, when you get a chance to look at the Nautilus issue please ping me and lets work out what the best options are
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: attente
<andyrock> sure
<attente> hey, we figured out what the new menu api should look like at the gtk hackfest last week, and i've just been working on implementing it
<attente> gnome-software sru work
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente, let's do a HO in our 1:1 next week and talk about menus
<attente> sure
<willcooke> thanks
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hi.
<desrt> spent last week at the gtk hackfest with attente, which is awesome
<desrt> convinced upstream that relocatability of libraries in the gnome platform is something that we should aim for as a gnome goal.  ie: it is a bug if a gnome library doesn't support it
<willcooke> nice!
<desrt> had the scope/size of the required glib patch increase quite a lot since now i need to make this "The Way" for handling this stuff -- including on mac and windows
<desrt> talked with alex a lot about flatpak, specifically the portals stuff.  his original proposed design was a bit overengineered in my opinion, and was written in a way that would probably hurt us and/or cause us to have to rewrite a lot of it.  we discussed refactoring it to improve the ability to share things more
<desrt> i am in the middle of writing up a report from the hackfest wrt. flatpak
<desrt> eof, i guess
<willcooke> thanks desrt :))
<willcooke> desrt, I'll put something in the diary next week to sync on that and the dconf proxy plans / work
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: dgadomski
<desrt> ya.  sorry that this got punted, but relocatability is turning into a bit of a bigger thing
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * working on samba: bug #1592326 & bug #1592327
<ubot5> bug 1592326 in samba (Ubuntu) "Permissions not inherited by files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592326
<ubot5> bug 1592327 in samba (Ubuntu) "force create mode not enforced on newly created files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592327
<dgadomski> * stuck with darktable snap - during the launch something goes crazy creating recursive gschema symlinks, need to look closer into this starting from the gtk-launch wrapper
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thanks
<willcooke> dgadomski, let us know if we can help with the snap
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> hey
<FJKong>  Flash BQ Aquaris E4.5 and test for Localization
<FJKong>  day-scope ubuntu-calendar-app unav system settings
<FJKong> bug/1586903 bug/1555144 bug/1586911 bug/1588630 bug/1588634
<FJKong> sogou im:
<FJKong> one bug about blocking login in 16.04LTS
<FJKong> playing snappy
<FJKong> eof.
<willcooke> 73s FJKong
<FJKong> !
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. Work with Sogou's technical people to help them prepare on the engine things
<willcooke> 2. Work on the fcitx5 project, which is the next generation
<willcooke> 3. Sort out libxml2/libxslt backlogs at Debian
<willcooke> 4. Getting nm-applet/1.2.2 ready
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: hikiko
<willcooke> we can come back, or please let me have the update by mail hikiko
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> she probably melted
<Laney> â¢ find / research / file a linux bug in LP which caused some ftbfsen
<Laney> â¢ help with krb5 transition
<Laney> â¢ some more theme work
<Laney> â uploaded some more 3.20s to the ppa
<Laney> â¢ theme reviews, sponsoring, train fun for y/x
<Laney> â¢ gstreamer 1.8.2 + sru
<Laney> â¢ review gnome-software sru, revert some snappy changes which need more thought + uploaded that to y/x
<Laney> â¢ help investigate an apt bug that was making some builds fail, turns out that it's in libstdc++ - so revert the change that exposed that. apt upstream are working on a workaround now
<Laney> â¢ discover g-s crash, upload file-roller without an empty MimeType in its .desktop (added in an Ubuntu patch) to work around that (asglib is also now fixed)
<Laney> â¢ glib 2.49.2
<Laney> ðµ
<willcooke> we had that bmx guy last week.
<willcooke> 2 points from Griffindor
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> i copied it from that one
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<Laney> since i finished it at 16:44:28
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: qengho
<Laney> it was that or â or âº or â­
<willcooke> * Done: New Chromium release, v51.0.2704.79, tested, gave to #secuurity.
<willcooke> ** I have a story about venerable and eldritch program "tar" changing behavior in 16.10, next time we're all drinking in a bar.
<willcooke> * In-progress: Replacing deprecated Cr config tool GYP with GN before it's an emergency.
<willcooke> * In-progress: Dekko mail snap. Strange hang in Qt init.
<willcooke> * Paused: Awaiting Chromium/Chrome snap security policies in snapd.
<Laney> which I can remember how to compose key
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ patch pilot shift
<seb128> â¢ SRU reviews/sponsoring for the team, helped verified some
<seb128> â¢ lot of snappy
<seb128> â got translations and datadir relocation mostly working for common GNOME cases
<seb128> â got evince current stable git loading pdf under strict confinement
<seb128> â installed flatpak/played a bit with it/looked at how they did some things
<seb128> â joined discussions on the list and bugs (dbus services, relocation, ...)
<seb128> â looked at bit to inkscape with t_ed
<seb128> â learnt a bit more about the details of how snappy work
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's it I think
<willcooke> packed suicase?
<willcooke> (I havent)
<seb128> not yet
<seb128> just a bagpack for 3 days
<seb128> still need to do that
<willcooke> oh, that's a good idea, save waiting for checked luggage
<seb128> and send boarding pass etc
<Laney> are we going to get another (not) creepy dressing gown picture?
<willcooke> we live in hope
<seb128> lol
<Laney> i found one from prague the other day
<Laney> this is a theme now
<willcooke> ha!
<seb128> all Trevinho's fault
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - back and forth for snappy PR
<Sweet5hark> - various LibreOffice snap bits (e.g. "dont ship symbols", dbus discussion ...)
<Sweet5hark> - filed some snapcraft bugs
<Sweet5hark> - tested LibreOffice snap in confined mode: seems to work
<Sweet5hark> - testing to get LibreOffice build with l10n
<Sweet5hark> - bumped LibreOffice/xenial to 5.1.4 in a ppa build (didnt publish yet)
<Sweet5hark> - setup a snap-building VM on big bertha, maybe that will shortens the dev cycle
<Sweet5hark> => next week: planning to go for 5.2.0~rc1 with full l10n on snappy, 5.1.4 LTS backports, and if there is time 5.2.0~rc1 as dpkg
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Spent more time learning how to snap with snapcraft. Managed to get a couple of snaps built and mostly working, need to patch a package to look for a config file in a different place, so need to learn how to implement a custom plugin for now to do this.
<willcooke> * Started working on the pulseaudio snap, updating it to work with the new snapcraft, and manage to get it built, again without patches. Sed patches are needed to make pulse behave in a snap environment. Will likely have to make configuration changes to probably run it system wide if used in a snappy only environment *sigh*
<willcooke> * Started looking into teh best way to set up a snappy only environment for testing, mostly for pulse.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - Phone: Video call about printing with lewgacy apps running inside Libertine.
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting distribution-independent driver packages: Started looking into distributing them as snaps in the Snap Store with the OpenPrinting web site selecting them via the printer's device ID.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: CUPS 2.2.x drops System V interface scripts, starting work on the PPD generator in cups-browsed to allow for creating queues for discovered IPP network printers always with PPDs, even if the information the printers report is insufficient, using default values then. The interface script will stay in cups-filters for now but only used if explicitly asked for via cups-browsed.conf.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Looked into a crash of pdftoraster on RGB 1-bit-per-color output discovered by a GSoC student.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2016: Guide students through their projects
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2016: Filled in the mid-term evaluations for both students for OpenPrinting, both have passed mid-term, meaning that they get the first half of their money now and will continue working with us for the second half of the summer.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs
<willcooke> awesome, thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: Trevinho
 * Trevinho lost his paste
<Laney> suuure
 * Trevinho writes
<Laney> - pizza - selfies
 * Trevinho * Branch for fixing the lockscreen indi
<Trevinho> * Fixed the lockscreen hotkeys such as the ones for kbd and monitor brightness
<Trevinho> * Unity8 work for new menu items
<Trevinho> * About to fix selectors for new gtk
<Laney> yesssssss
<Trevinho> (unity side)
<Trevinho> * compiz reviews
<Trevinho> * new landing
<Trevinho> * libwnck release
<Trevinho>  /EOF (sort of)
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - LightDM refactoring and bugfixing for Unity 8 greeter work
<willcooke> - LightDM 1.19.1, 1.18.2 (SRU) releases
<willcooke> - Confirmed snappy MIME type SRUs
<willcooke> - Proposed minimal snapd patch for GNOME Software upstream
<willcooke> - Booked flights for snappy sprint
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-21 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Interviews - lots of 1st rounds done.  Some very interesting candidates.  Some 2nd rounds and more 1st rounds next week
<willcooke> Planning meeting from tomorrow in BOS.  Will report back next week.
<willcooke> Anyone got anything else?
<willcooke> going in 5
<willcooke> 4
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 21 15:55:56 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-06-21-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thank you all
<Laney> merci!
<andyrock> tack tack
 * desrt wonders where seb128 went
<willcooke> preparing for Brexit
<desrt> ah... right... bunkers have poor wireless service.
<Trevinho> Laney: fix for unity was quite easy though... For headerbar doesn't seem to apply though
<andyrock> lol
<seb128> (back, internet dropped where I was, had to change location)
<willcooke> like to the UK?
<Laney> Trevinho: what do you mean?
<seb128> is that Trevinho's turn?
<seb128> Trevinho, when do we get another round of xenial SRU? ;-)
 * seb128 wonders if he lost internet again
<attente> me too
<seb128> hey attente :-)
<seb128> was the meeting wrapped?
<attente> hi seb128, yes it was :)
<seb128> oh, k
<seb128> so everybody left :p
<seb128> oh well
<seb128> did I miss anything?
 * seb128 waits for the irclog to update
<seb128> ah, they are, nice
<seb128> desrt, the symlink works ;-)
<seb128> woooot
<seb128> Germany!
<seb128> desrt, dconf doesn't need the schemas right?
<seb128> (seems to work fine without it)
<seb128> the app has it inside the container
<seb128> but the dconf service on the host doesn't
<seb128> seem things work
<Trevinho> Laney: I get no headerbars in client side decorated windows, all is transparent here
<Trevinho> seb128: xenial SRU... Waiting for some juicy stuff to land
<seb128> Trevinho, there is enough juice to do a landing...
<Laney> Trevinho: do you actually have the new theme?
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/gtk320.png
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, weird indeed
<Trevinho> Laney: I've updated my theme I think
<seb128> you also got a new gedit apparently
<Laney> haha
<seb128> are you sure you use the right ppa?
<Trevinho> Laney: anyway, unity side is quite easy to fix, I'm pushing the change in a bit
<Laney> menus too?
<Trevinho> mh, deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop/gtk320/ubuntu yakkety main
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah
<Laney> make sure you got light-themes from there
<Trevinho> Laney: oh, menus.... menu items you mean?
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, archive overrided that version
<Laney> no
<Laney> look at menus in the panel
<Laney> click on one
<Laney> they get a white line each side
<Trevinho> ah, they look fine here, but might because I fixed the rest :)
<Laney> ._.
<Laney> well if you build a package then we can put it in that ppa to test
<Laney> thx for helping
<Laney> you can look at the unity greeter items too if you want, that would be nice
<Laney> :) :) :)
<Trevinho> Laney: greeter... the input field, then what else?
<seb128> Trevinho, so, about that xenial landing?
<Laney> "invalid password" doesn't display right
<Trevinho> mh, I don't see it when in test-mode, but maybe is different thing
<Trevinho> seb128: you also mean usd stuff?
<seb128> no
<seb128> but the "lock on vt switch" is driving me crazy
<Laney> in both cases the entry disappears
<Laney> so they could be the same problem
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, ok.... well, ok... I'll try to do that
<seb128> Trevinho, did you let bdmurray know that he can clear the euc-potential-regressions for compiz are not ones?
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, this morning,... He just replied in -devel though
<seb128> k
<alexarnaud> Good bye all ! See you tomorrow.
<Laney> ya
<Laney> night!
<seb128> 'night Laney
<willcooke> cya Laney
<willcooke> night alexarnaud
<seb128> night alexarnaud
<willcooke> packing time I think
<seb128> yeah, I should do that too
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Wondering if I can fit my clothes in to my laptop bag
<willcooke> could do a laundry run Thursday morning
<seb128> you have a nice ubuntu backpack
<seb128> should have plenty of space for spare clothes and laptop?
<willcooke> dont suppose I need two laptops this time
<seb128> yeah, you don't
<desrt> seb128: schemas are for gsettings
<seb128> desrt, k, so having them inside the confined environment only is fine?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> well, ish
<seb128> no dconf-editor
<desrt> you want them on the outside too, so that the user can see them with dconf-editor, etc.
<seb128> but that's fine
<seb128> right, enventually
<seb128> that iteration is just to unblock things
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<willcooke> seb128, wash bag :(
<willcooke> seb128, although, the hotel will have all that, so I really only need toothbrush and paste
<seb128> right
<willcooke> just dropped my electic shaver down the toilet
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> tramp version of willcooke in Boston it is!
<willcooke> spot the difference :)
<seb128> :-)
<chrisccoulson> willcooke, is your electric shaver not waterproof?
<chrisccoulson> I'm sure glad Jo's electric toothbrush is waterproof, or appears to be. I was able to just fish that out of the toilet when I dropped it down there, and she's none the wiser
<willcooke> it is, but now its covered in toilet
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, :DDDD
<Sweet5hark> o.O
 * Sweet5hark finished a libreoffice snap with full l10n.
<Sweet5hark> \o/
<Sweet5hark> 715MB *mumblemumble* *handwave*
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, congrats
<willcooke> night all
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, I see why my gedit was broken... It happens when you enable the overlay map
<TheMuso> alexarnaud: Never used a raspbery pi of any kind.
<robert_ancell> attente, I'll fix bug 1564076 if you haven't started on it
<ubot5> bug 1564076 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Can't launch snaps" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1564076
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-22
<hikiko> Hi
<qengho> hikiko: howdy!
<hikiko> hi qengho
<hikiko> how are you ?
<qengho> hikiko: good! Wrestling Chromium and some google-datacenter-buildbot assumptions I'm finding, so that sucks. Otherwise, great.
<qengho> hikiko: And you? What's new?
<hikiko> I'm just doing fixes in software rendering and oem work but your question just reminded me that I forgot to mail my bullets for the meeting yesterday...  :-/
<qengho> Dang!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<qengho> Bonjour!
<seb128> k, arriving to the airport, have a nice day everyone
<didrocks> hey qengho
<qengho> didrocks: salut!
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> oh bonjour pitti !
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, merci ! on a vu le match hier soir Ã  un place de "public viewing", c'Ã©tait bien !
<pitti> enfin c'est l'Ã©tÃ© !
<didrocks> il va mÃªme faire trÃ¨s chaud :)
<didrocks> un match de quoi ? (ok, je sors -> ;))
<pitti> didrocks: Allemagne vs. Nord Ireland
<pitti> didrocks: Je crois que tu ne le sais pas, mais il y a un compÃ©tition de soccer europÃ©en en France maintenant :-P
<didrocks> ah vraiment ? c'est quoi le soccer ? ;)
 * pitti te donne une accolade
<didrocks> ah, c'est pour Ã§a qu'on nous embÃªte Ã  Lyon avec beaucoup de monde dans les transports en commun :p
 * didrocks donne une accolade Ã  pitti en retour
<pitti> argh, "football"
<pitti> franÃ§ais a un vrai mot pour Ã§a, au contraire d'anglais :)
<didrocks> un mot en anglais par contre :p
<pitti> it's all completely wrong :)
<willcooke> morning
<qengho> 'sup.
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> hey qengho!  How's it going over there?
<willcooke> morning seb128, on the way to the airport already?
<seb128> willcooke, waiting for boarding
<willcooke> seb128, what time do you land?
<seb128> 12:17 I think
<seb128> it was either early or late
<willcooke> oh nice!  Are you going to do some sightseeing?
<willcooke> I hear it's a really lovely city
<seb128> earlier is better, let some time to see sunlight and adjust to the tz
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> when do you land?
<Laney> moin
<pitti> hey Laney!
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<pitti> Laney: bos worker spam> FYI, bos01 is back alive
<willcooke> seb128, 1930
<qengho> willcooke: I like it. Great food. Friendly people. Good internet.
<willcooke> qengho, \o/
<qengho> willcooke: The office is nicer than you let on.
<seb128> willcooke, k, see you at the hotel after dinner I guess
<willcooke> qengho, oh, great!  I remember the food places being good
 * qengho goes to t'gram some food photos.
<Laney> pitti: righto
<Laney> seb128: good, planted out some more veg last night!
<Laney> you?
<Laney> early start?
<Laney> thought you people would be offline today
 * willcooke is doing slides 
<seb128> Laney, for some definition of early, I left at 7am
<seb128> so it's like half an hour earlier than the day where I manage to get out of bed easily
<seb128> Laney, I'm in schiphol waiting for boarding
<seb128> they have free internet so I can as well use it to say hey ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, keep something for the plane!
<seb128> though if slides are done I guess you can watch movies
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> Was going to hack on my snap a little
<seb128> that's the spirit
<willcooke> and fix moar theme bugs :)
<seb128> I took some of that as well
<seb128> wooot
<seb128> better theme ftw
<Laney> 3.20 theme bugs right?
<willcooke> <whistles>
<willcooke> I'll get up testing machine upgraded actually, and start looking at 3.20
<seb128> lts first!
<willcooke> Laney, what do you think about removing all the image borders and gradients and flattening it off a bit?
<seb128> think of the users
<willcooke> should probably fix the rest of the notebook tabs at some point.  Maybe that's a job for the plane
<Laney> lts already has been first
<Laney> flattening> no idea, my design brain is bad
<Laney> is there another theme that does that?
<seb128> it's going to be around for long though so deserve some more work
<seb128> but yeah, need to find a balance
<willcooke> I was thinking more for speed, I wonder if removing all the images would be faster
<seb128> it's tricky
<Laney> you could probably replace most of the images with css
<seb128> k, time for boarding see you later!
<Laney> happy flight
<pitti> seb128: bon vol !
<seb128> thanks
<Trevinho> Morning
<Trevinho> Safe travels seb128 and willcooke
<Trevinho> Laney: have you see my msg about gedit?
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho :)
<Laney> hi Trevinho
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> how do you enable that thing?
<Laney> probably easiest to just try 3.20
<Trevinho> Laney: preferences
<Laney> jhbuild that shizzle and see if it works there
<Laney> GtkSourceMap
<Laney> intriguing
<Laney> Trevinho: trying your branch in a minute
<Laney> there is a corresponding unity which sets css names right?
<Trevinho> Laney: nope. Classes were already there
<Laney> hey your branch broke the wallpaper
<Laney> how can that be
<Laney> not true
<Laney> something else did
<Laney> FFS
 * Laney cries
<Trevinho> Mhmh, broke in which sense?
 * Trevinho sees why we didn't use 3.20 in Xenial...
<Laney> it's not your branch
<Laney> but it did just stop working for me
<Laney> which is WTF
<Trevinho> Yeah I read ..
<Laney> black background
<Laney> i didn't even upgrade anything
<Laney> but then nautilus -q; nautilus
<Laney> and it doesn't break again
<Laney> wrweriowejroiwejfsekjSEFJOESOFJWEOJ
<Trevinho> It's a new style... Wallpapers are overestimated
<Laney> bbbbbbbbbbbbbut nothing changed
<Laney> weird
<Laney> dist-upgrade, reboot -> works
 * Laney la la la, nothing to see here
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> Trevinho: gtksourceview3 in the ppa fixes the overview thing
<Laney> once built
 * Laney takes a look at popovers
<andyrock> good morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<willcooke> right, off to airport
<willcooke> toodles
<Laney> hf
<Laney> someone with a y system
<Laney> do the sliders in indicator-sound work for you?
<Laney> for me they do nooooooooot
<Laney> I guess it could somehow be gtk 3.20 Â¬_Â¬
<Laney> hah
<Laney> i'd selected a different output
<Laney> or something did that for me
<Laney> WAH
<Laney> night!
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-23
<hikiko> Hi
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<Laney> hey!
<Laney> BE LIKE THAT!
<pitti> hey Laney !
<Laney> oh!
<Laney> hi pitti
<Laney> how's it going?
<pitti> Laney, chrisccoulson: happy "Do I stay or do I go now? â© âª" day!
<pitti> Laney: really well, thanks
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I already voted
<didrocks> good morning Laney
<Laney> SCARY
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> how are youuuuuuuuuu
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks! Yourself?
<Laney> weird
<Laney> today's ze day
<Trevinho> morning
<Trevinho> Laney: you saved your our union?
<Trevinho> :)
<andyrock> morning all
<ricotz> Laney, hoping the best
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<Laney> Trevinho: I did my bit :P
<Laney> hi Trevinho andyrock ricotz
<Laney> europe wakes up late!
 * ricotz already did some morning sports
<muktupavels> Trevinho: why status still shows only 'successfully built' - https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1580?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti :)
<chrisccoulson> I do hope we stay ;)
<Laney> bah
<Laney> I don't get this glib2.0 ftbfs
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> o/
<pitti> salut seb128 ! as-tu eu un bon voyage ?
<seb128> lut pitti, oui trÃ¨s bien
<pitti> seb128: qu'est-ce que tu a fait avec willcooke ? :-)
<seb128> empty seats next to me, direct flight, 7h
<pitti> sounds about as good as it can get
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> on est dans une rÃ©union sur snappy avec willcooke, mais son wifi ne marche pas bien
<desrt> hihi
<didrocks> hey desrt!
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> hey desrt
<seb128> lut didrocks
 * desrt spots the french sneaking in
<desrt> how is boston, seb?
<seb128> very nice
<seb128> I haven't be there for a while, still like the city ;-)
<seb128> went for some exercice in Boston Common yesterday that was great
<Laney> hmmmm
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> are you fully snapped?
<seb128> hey Laney, how is it going?
<seb128> not yet!
<seb128> did you vote?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> did it before work
<Laney> I couldn't help but stereotype everyone that I saw near the polling place, trying to guess how they voted
<Laney> DIVIDED BRITAIN
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> when are we going to start getting votes estimates?
<Laney> some time after 10pm
<Laney> I guess you'll get a good idea around 4-5am
<Laney> which is probably alright for you
<Laney> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/referendum-night-when-to-nap-and-the-results-to-watch
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> desrt: raaargh
<Laney> he;lp me
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.49.2-1
<Laney> https://paste.debian.net/748001
<Laney> something is going wrong in g_object_set but I cannae see it
<pitti> ok, so I'll definitively wait for tmw morning to check the news, and put the mobile next to my bed :)
<Laney> iterating the va_list doesn't terminate properly, but the input is NULL terminated
<Laney> confuse
<Laney> pitti: probably around the time you'll get up anyway :)
<Laney> seb128: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2016/jun/23/quirky-referendum-polling-stations-in-pictures
<pitti> Laney: haha, that's great
<Laney> I like the one in someone's front room
<pitti> yeah, very cozy
<seb128> andyrock, hey, I just saw your comment on the bug about the dash not listing new software ... what's the status of the gnome-menus patch? is that waiting for desrt to do a new review round?
<seb128> Laney, fun
<andyrock> seb128: yep. waiting for review
<seb128> I though that polling station would be more "official"
<andyrock> ^
<andyrock> ?
<seb128> andyrock, did you reping desrt? she probably didn't notice the new patch on the bug
<andyrock> seb128: maybe would be better to propose the patch using a branch but cannot find gnome-menus on launchpad
<andyrock> mmm yeah i pinged her
<andyrock> maybe she forgot :D
<andyrock> there is also the gtk branch for the menu shadows
<seb128> it's an upstream patch, would perhaps work better with a git branch
<seb128> or a bugzilla
<seb128> oh, right
<seb128> did Trevinho or desrt review that one?
<seb128> maybe Laney can help to get it uploaded
<seb128> otherwise I can have a look next week
<seb128> I'm in Boston today/tomorrow and I don't think I'm going to find slot for that one
<andyrock> i don't like that patch enough to propose it upstream
<andyrock> it's a timeout fix :D
<andyrock> :D
<andyrock> but it's good enough to workaround the problem in unity
<andyrock> seb128: and Trevinho already reviewed the gtk patch
<andyrock> in Prague
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, the gnome-menus issue is a bug upstream no?
<seb128> can we get a fix that is good enough to be upstreamed? ;-)
<seb128> andyrock, any, let's see if we can get it reviewed for ubuntu as well
<seb128> desrt, could you review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1506744/comments/47 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1506744 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "Newly installed applications do not show in the dash" [High,In progress]
<seb128> next iteration from the one you already reviewed
<desrt> zomg
<desrt> andyrock: reviewed
<desrt> the patch is weird, but no obvious problems
<desrt> ie: now that the patch shrunk in size, it's clear that it could shrink even more
<desrt> i feel a bit silly for not having seen that before
<desrt> please let me know what you think
<andyrock> desrt: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1506744/comments/52 regarding this not sure
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1506744 in gnome-menus (Ubuntu) "Newly installed applications do not show in the dash" [High,In progress]
<andyrock> it has been while i need to look again on it
<desrt> in any case, i sense that you are probably sick of working on this by now, so just go with what you have
<desrt> but if you want to kick it around a bit more, then feel free
<andyrock> I'm working on other stuff right now I can allocate some time next week
<andyrock> or we can just send it
<seb128> andyrock, desrt, I'm going to upload to yakkety to get things moving, so the unity fix can be in the next landing
<seb128> then we can look at SRU
<andyrock> yep
<seb128> andyrock, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/3.13.3-6ubuntu4
<andyrock> seb128, desrt thanks :)
<seb128> thank you for doing the work!
<Laney> desrt: https://paste.debian.net/748401 ?
<desrt> fascinating
<desrt> the g_object_set() call obviously needs this, but i'm concerned about the comparison
<desrt> was that truly required?
<Laney> i'm guessing it's only the g_object_set that needs it
<desrt> can you scale back the patch?
<desrt> you could also write _set(obj, "foo", (guint64) 12345);
<desrt> which i find to be nicer to look at :)
 * desrt is not super impressed with those macros
<Laney> I thought it might be preferred to uint64ify all of the things
<Laney> but whatevs
<Laney> ta
<desrt> i'd prefer if the tests were written in a way that made them more likely to fail :)
<desrt> i'm going to directly commit the (guint64) cast upstream
<Laney> k
<Laney> I would have pushed it after test building
<Laney> merci
<desrt> i'm running the test now just to make sure :p
<Laney> on i386 i hope
<Laney> :)
<desrt> *cough*
<desrt> still working on my plan to set up a massive builtfarm of exotic hardware :)
<Laney> that's why we have debian experimental
<desrt> "for when unstable is just not unstable enough"
<Laney> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=glib2.0&suite=experimental
<desrt> the regression got introduced when the accessors for u/int64 were introduced
<desrt> which is why it worked for so long
<Laney> ya
<desrt> people not doing builds anymore on i386 is becoming a bit of an issue...
<desrt> pushed the small fix.
<Laney> uploaded to debian
<seb128> Laney, pitti, could one of you retry the libimobiledevice autopkgtest that failed in the xenial sru?
<Laney> seb128: does http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/xenial/update_excuses.html#libimobiledevice work?
<seb128> Laney, I guess it does, but I forgot my ubikey home
<seb128> doh
<seb128> can't go through the 2fa
<Laney> ok, I'll click it, but that means you can ping anyone not just the two of us
<seb128> I never know what acls are required
<Laney> done
<seb128> is that upload right for the concerned package?
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> yes
<seb128> makes sense
<seb128> sorry for the direct ping!
<Laney> or the triggering package
<seb128> flexiondotorg, hey, did you see the comment on bug #1574789?
<ubot5> bug 1574789 in ubuntu-mate-settings (Ubuntu Xenial) "xorg.conf.d/90-zap.conf destroys xorg keyboard settings" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574789
<seb128> that SRU is in the queue for a while and verification-failed
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> I just got a suspicious dialog on my desktop
<seb128> "you should vote brexit"
<seb128> they hacked your computer!
<Laney> see telegram
<Laney> !!!
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Thanks. I'll follow up on that. Should I re-upload with the same version number?
<seb128> flexiondotorg, no,Ã½ou can't and users wouldn't get it/it would confuse apt, need to bump the revision
<flexiondotorg> seb128, I ask because that version has never been publish in the archive.
<seb128> Laney, can you xprop it?
<seb128> flexiondotorg, it did in proposed no? or what is verification-failed?
<flexiondotorg> seb128, OK. Understood.
<flexiondotorg> I'll re-upload in the next day or so.
<seb128> thanks
<ogra_> https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus seems quite outdated
 * flexiondotorg goes to the polling station.
<ogra_> ahh ... it was a subtle hint from LP for all the brits ... now i get it
<Laney> niiiiiiiiiiiiight
<seb128> night Laney
<seb128> happyaron, hey (you probably called it a day but it's for tomorrow then), did you look at the n-m/nm-a e.u.c potential regressions issues?
<jbicha> seb128: it looks like your X and Y evolution-indicator uploads missed updating debian/control for the change
<seb128> jbicha, thanks, wonder what happened there
<jbicha> I was working on the empathy update, we should set X-Ubuntu-Use-Langpack: yes there too, right?
<seb128> I guess
<jbicha> I don't know how the langpacks work to now whether that's helpful or not
<seb128> if that flag is set the translations are removed from the binary and included in the langpacks instead
<seb128> unsure how useful it is for empathy
<seb128> do we have distro specific strings added by patches?
<jbicha> seb128: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/empathy/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/43_quicklists.patch
<cyphermox> seb128: pitti: think it's fine to unblock aptdaemon/packagekit by now?
<seb128> cyphermox, I don't know of any blocker so +1 from my side
<jbicha> seb128: 2 of those actions should be upstreamable
<jbicha> the last shows up (in G Shell for instance) but doesn't do anything if unity-control-center isn't installed
<seb128> jbicha, sorry I timeoutdated, what actions?
<jbicha> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/empathy/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/43_quicklists.patch
<seb128> so yeah better to use langpacks
<jbicha> ok, thanks
<pitti> cyphermox: I defer to seb128's judgement, I'm not up to speed with packagekit; so it seems fine
<cyphermox> ok, then I suppose let's open the gates
<seb128> who use y anyaway *g*
<seb128> anyway
<cyphermox> well, I do
<cyphermox> but all my stuff I've tested ;)
 * seb128 wave is LTS is great flag
<cyphermox> removed the block tag; let's watch this carefully
<seb128> thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-24
<hikiko> Hi
<TheMuso`> Hey hikiko.
<hikiko> Hi TheMuso`
<pitti> Bonjour
<pitti> Laney, chrisccoulson: oh noes!
<TheMuso`> Hey pitti.
<TheMuso`> My comiserations to those affected by this, don't really understand the bigger picture, so I hope it works out for all of you.
<TheMuso`> gah typing
<pitti> hey TheMuso`
<pitti> yes, this debate had gotten way too emotional
<TheMuso`> I know if I were a UK citizin, I'd probably not be sure what it would mean either way.
<TheMuso`> Although I may know then I do as an Australian citizin.
<TheMuso`> know more than I do/
<TheMuso> gah spelling... Speech synths suck sometimes. :p
<didrocks> pitti: yep, didn't expect to really happen as wellâ¦
<didrocks> (good morning btw! :))
<didrocks> hey TheMuso
<pitti> didrocks: some morning to you too!
<pitti> (not sure if it's "good" :) )
<pitti> anyway, time for running before it gets too hot
<didrocks> enjoy!
<TheMuso> Hey didrocks.
 * TheMuso -> EOW
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, I'm not very happy this morning https://www.facebook.com/chrisccoulson/posts/10157040696845092 :(
 * didrocks hugs chrisccoulson
<Laney> morning
<flexiondotorg> I would say Good Morning, but Morning will have to suffice today.
<didrocks> hey Laney, flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> o/
<Laney> Dramatic
<Laney> No flames, no helicopters, my VPS is still up, Yakkety still boots
<Laney> Could be worse
<pitti> hey Laney!
<Laney> hi pitti
<Laney> how are you?
<pitti> Laney: slightly stirred, but okay
 * Laney goes with trepidation to fidelity.co.uk
<pitti> I hope you bought a ton of EURs last week
<Laney> No change, guess I should look later on
<Laney> haha
<Laney> everybody thought that remain would win (even Farage called it early on yesterday evening)
<Laney> so I would have bet the wrong way
<Laney> fortunately I didn't :)
<pitti> yeah, neither did I
<pitti> selling stocks in anger is almost never a good idea
<pitti> (and I don't buy foreign currencies at all, that just feels wrong)
<Laney> nod
<Laney> Probably a good time to buy into the banks if you're into that
<Laney> not that my investment advice is sound :P
<flexiondotorg> I bought more bitcoin a few weeks back.
<pitti> I have a lot of stocks in renewable power and water supplies, I hope/don't think they will be particularly affected
<Laney> It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness. In the months ahead we will try to ensure that we lay the foundations for a better country. We must prove to the world that Britain will not
<Laney> +become a byword for intolerance, insularity and despair. Another Europe is possible. Another Britain is necessary.
<Laney> oops
<Laney> but nice quote
<Laney> meant to link https://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=LON:RBS,+LON:BARC&ei=PuxsV4H8KoeeU_T8rbAD
<pitti> http://www.thecountrycaller.com/23083-barclays-plc-adr-bcs-stops-accepting-stop-loss-orders/ -- oops!
<pitti> I guess bank's computers got DoSed with stop-loss triggers this morning..
<Sweet5hark1> moin
<Laney> hi Sweet5hark1
<Sweet5hark1> I discovers the UK found a way to bring "devalue your currency, drive up exports!" strategy to scorched earth levels.
<Laney> chrisccoulson: east midlands was the most eurosceptic region
<Laney> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mI2o0smlVC_TyzhsnweLEayc3tRgtBxIDCotABtUIX0/edit#gid=519932029
<chrisccoulson> Laney, yeah, that doesn't surprise me
<chrisccoulson> We've been surrounded by leave billboards for the last few weeks. Not a remain billboard in sight, and outside of my house I've yet to meet someone who was planning to vote remain
<pitti> I'm trying to understand where this actually comes from
<pitti> is it really the EU, or is that just a scapegoat for the real issues, like unregulated capitalism slowly destroying the middle and working classes?
<pitti> at least in polls here it's usually the latter
<andyrock> good morning
<flexiondotorg> Anyone able to review this merge proposal? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicator-session/mate-compatibility/+merge/297183
<willcooke> :((((
<willcooke> Laney, get your big suitcase.  I've found a nice park.  We'll hold up here until we can get in to Canada.
 * Laney wibbles at willcooke 
<Laney> good time to BUY BUY BUY
<Laney> ...if you can stomach the long term
<willcooke> You think it will make a big difference?
<Laney> quite the adjustment
<Odd_Bloke> Turns out I chose my Canadian wife well. :)
<willcooke> Odd_Bloke, smooth move :)
<Odd_Bloke> (We were already planning to move to Canada early next year, but now we're planning extra hard :p)
<willcooke> :)
 * Laney is setting things up in a VM to be able to work offline
<Laney> Want to go mope in a cafe which may or may not have wifi
<Laney> bacon sandwich make everything good
<Laney> k, actually doing ^ now
<Laney> hopefully be online from cafe, but if not - happy weekend
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<pitti> seb128: I don't understand you comment on bug 1571640
<ubot5> bug 1571640 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu Xenial) "lightdm changing resolution" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571640
<pitti>  unity-settings-daemon | 15.04.1+16.04.20160209-0ubuntu2   | xenial-updates  | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
<pitti> -Recommends: unity-settings-daemon,
<pitti> +         unity-settings-daemon (>= 15.04.1+16.04.20160209-0ubuntu2)
<pitti> seb128: that seems to match
<seb128> pitti, that version doesn't have the xsettings change
<seb128> it's a power plugin fix for keyboard backlight
<pitti> seb128: ah, so the recommends: change is insufficient? I'll reject this then
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we need to do a SRU for u-s-d
<seb128> then to bump the requirement to that version
<pitti> seb128: merci
<seb128> de rien
<seb128> sorry the comment was not clear
<pitti> no worries, I was just missing context
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> np!
<Laney> meow
<Laney> weird gnome-terminal issue
<Laney> *if* one class has a css name
<Laney> *and* there's no menubar shown in the window
<Laney> then it shrinks to 1x1
<Laney> got to go get on a train
<Laney> that's a good environment to look at this code
<Laney> o/
<Sweet5hark1> woha, italian bank for sale at 25% discount, PER 6.41/
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Hi Jeremy, do you possibly have any thoughts on bug #1594681?
<ubot5> bug 1594681 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "Don't set ibus variables from gnome-session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1594681
<jbicha> I don't know much about ibus except that GNOME Shell has for years only support ibus
<jbicha> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-session/commit/?h=gnome-3-18&id=39f146e6c5727105a3c88c2290654c6ef83102c5
<jbicha> what you found in gnome-session is a rather recent addition ^
<jbicha> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/tree/js/ui/status/keyboard.js
<jbicha> GunnarHj: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/tree/js/misc/ibusManager.js#n70
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Thanks, apparently gnome-shell is heavily involved. The fact that GNOME starts the ibus daemon is not the problem, if we just could stop it from setting those variables.
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Currently im-config is installed by default in Ubuntu GNOME, and the point with that package is to make it possible for users to choose input method framework. So logically there is two ways to go: Either tell the users "we only support IBus in Ubuntu GNOME", or
<GunnarHj> stop GNOME from setting those variables.
<jbicha> I believe ibus is the only integrated im method for GNOME
<jbicha> my instinct is to just follow GNOME's lead since AFAIK there hasn't been much work to integrate other im methods
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Right, it is. But what I'm trying to achieve is making it possible to use e.g. fcitx in an unintegrated manner.
<jbicha> but I don't use im methods
<GunnarHj> jbicha: I don't either. ;) But in Ubuntu fcitx is now the default IM framework for CJK, since it seems to be preferred by the CJK users.
<jbicha> I think it would help a lot if you could find a CJK developer then :)
<jbicha> the Arch wiki suggests https://github.com/wengxt/kimpanel-for-gnome-shell
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Probably a good idea. ;) Thanks for the tip!
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-19
<jbicha> duflu: hi
<jbicha> I was pretty sure Caribou suffered from LP: #1698515 but I hadn't spent the time to verify that
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1698515 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "On screen keyboard stays English even after changing language to Finnish" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698515
<jbicha> I think we'd be a lot better off with Onboard, but note that 1) Onboard doesn't work in Wayland yet and 2) is dependant on caribou in some parts of the UI
<duflu> jbicha: Yeah but Caribou and the Shell OSK are separate, mostly, right?
<jbicha> you can try caribou by install gnoem-shell-extension-caribou and enabling the extension
<duflu> I have tried it. It's not the same thing though
<jbicha> duflu: The Shell screen keyboard *is* caribou
<duflu> Really? I thought Caribou was the little popup keyboard only
<jbicha> caribou has been undermaintained for years in GNOME
<jbicha> Caribou is the popup Shell screen keyboard
<jbicha> I think GNOME would be better off switching to Onboard but it would take a bunch of work to integrate it well
<duflu> I swear when I tested it, Caribou was a different keyboard (tiny) and wasn't the shell keyboard (full screen width)
<jbicha> Caribou is just too minimal
<jbicha> there's 2 versions of Caribou: the one built into Shell and one that can run standalone in a different desktop
<duflu> jbicha: Regardless, I think working with upstream Gnome would be best. I don't have confidence in onboard even after a few years
<jbicha> I think caribou-antler is the standlone one?
<jbicha> part of Onboard's problem is that they are not GNOME
<jbicha> if GNOME were to decide to work with Onboard then I don't think it would take long for Onboard to work in Wayland
<duflu> Onboard is not reliable at rendering the correct size or correct proportions. So I would not endorse it without upstream integration work
<jbicha> and I think Onboard could handle the system dialogs (like Activities Overview, unlock prompts)
<jbicha> I think Caribou's keyboard doesn't support more than a few languages
<jbicha> and I think Caribou will be worse for accessibility
<duflu> jbicha: Despite the bugs, I prefer what Gnome Shell is doing right now. :)
<jbicha> ok
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> morning
<duflu> Hello, oSoMoN, didrocks, jibel
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<duflu> willcooke: morning
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<duflu> willcooke, libinput 1.7 sounds interesting. I think we should get it in artful. Although 1.8 is coming soon too
<Laney> AH MAN
<duflu> HI LANEY
<Laney> looks like my VPS done got rebooted
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey duflu willcooke Laney
<duflu> Hey seb128
<Laney> hi duflu hi seb128
<Laney> you good?
<seb128> duflu, what's new in libinput 1.7?
<didrocks> re/hey guys ;)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> down to business
<duflu> seb128, https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017-March/033531.html
<seb128> Laney, a bit tired but good! w.e was busy here, friends over for dinner on friday and sunday evenings and some other friends came for coffee on saturday
<seb128> and election day yesterday
<Laney> coffee
<Laney> you dutch!
<seb128> and almost 30Â°C which is too much
<seb128> lol
<seb128> tea, right? :p
<seb128> Laney, how was your w.e?
<Laney> good, went down to see family for my dad's birthday & fathers day
<Laney> was over 30 at some points
<Laney> and hey didrocks, how's it going?
<seb128> nice weather for a bbq!
<seb128> going to be less fun sitting at the computer today
<Laney> indeed
<seb128> duflu, indeed, nice update, I'm pretty sure we are going to get it in artful, it's still early in the cycle
<duflu> seb128: Assuming the ABI is well maintained. Should be easy
<didrocks> Laney: very good, thanks! deep into session swapping ;) Weather was great, still at my parent's to a couple of days. Great to be in slightly fresher moutains environment than warm city.
 * didrocks sees http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-france/lyon/69000 and is not eager to go backâ¦
<didrocks> 38 on Thursdayâ¦
<Laney> ._.
<Laney> shit
<Laney> I forgot to run irssi in screen /o\
<xnox> oh noes
 * Laney rips off the plaster
<Laney> ze hive mind
<andyrock> morning!
<duflu> andyrock, morning
<willcooke> morning andyrock
<didrocks> andyrock: waow, seems the unity cmake file changed quite a lot since I last touched it :) any idea about this build failure: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/324564067/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-amd64.unity_7.5.0+17.10.20170619-0ubuntu1~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz ?
<didrocks> I don't see anything hurting my eyes in the output
<didrocks> (it failed on all arhcs)
<didrocks> archs*
<andyrock> didrocks: i'm checking
<andyrock> this is in artful?
<duflu> That's weird. I think I just resolved the #1 bluez bug as Invalid
 * duflu runs away before proven otherwise
<didrocks> andyrock: yes, artful
<andyrock> didrocks: are you sure it's not just a random failures
<didrocks> andyrock: it failed on all archs
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions/+packages
<didrocks> that would be quite a concidence, dont' you think?
<didrocks> don't*
<didrocks> I can try a rerun on like amd64 if you want
<seb128> didrocks, it's weird, we got an upload which built in artful 10 days ago
<seb128> neither compiz nor cmake changed since
<didrocks> yeah, that's why I'm puzzled
<didrocks> the diff is just metadata, so not related to the changes themselves
<didrocks> failed again: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/324566872/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-amd64.unity_7.5.0+17.10.20170619-0ubuntu1~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<didrocks> seb128: this is why I'm asking andyrock :)
<andyrock> did we push a new cmake or something like that?
<didrocks> oh, version in proposed is != from version in release
<didrocks> (for cmake)
<didrocks> let me try to enable proposed in the ppa
<andyrock> but that's quite old
<didrocks> ok, build starts with -proposed enabled in the ppa
<seb128> tjaalton, hey, is libinput 1.7 an upload you are looking at?
<andyrock> didrocks: did you push to trunk directly?
 * didrocks gives back on all archs
<didrocks> andyrock: yes, it's in trunk, but not released (as it's in the ppa)
<didrocks> ok, remaining archs building in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions/
<seb128> didrocks, seems to work now?
<didrocks> seb128: see backlog ^
<seb128> didrocks, ?
<seb128> I saw the backlog
<didrocks> maybe was unclear "build starts" was opposed to "fails at configure"
<seb128> I was just saying that the build-with-proposed seems to go past the previous issue
<seb128> oh ok
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> I though you were saying that launchpad was picking up builds
<didrocks> yeah, got it after your "?" :)
<didrocks> I bet it's this cmake update blocked in proposed
<andyrock> didrocks: but why it did not fail one week ago?
<andyrock> is bileto building with proposed?
<didrocks> andyrock: if it didn't change since the train, yeah, it's supposed to mirror the archive config by building with proposed
<seb128> the build log at least shows that unity was built using the cmake version in proposed
<ogra> hrm ... since the latest firefox upgrade my FF hangs pretty frequently
<ogra> (on 16.04 that is)
<tjaalton> seb128: yes, I'll update it soon
<seb128> tjaalton, great, thanks
<jbicha> jibel: Ubuntu's not going to participate in next week's Alpha 1 then?
<Trevinho> any desktop dev... when this is britney approved, please publish it https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2822
<seb128> good morning Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<jibel> jbicha, no
<jbicha> jibel: what do you think of checkbox still being installed by default? it pulls in a lot of QML deps
<jbicha> maybe 50+ MB installed?
<jibel> jbicha, it's used for certification I think, I'll ask them.
<jbicha> thanks
<jbicha> seb128: I've been saving up some questions for you :)
<seb128> hey jbicha :-)
<jbicha> some people were complaining on the forums about gnome-shell suddently becoming untranslated (its first build after being promoted to main)
<jbicha> what do you think about doing an artful langage pack earlier this cycle because of that?
<seb128> +1 for me
<jbicha> Do LP language coordinators have to manually approve the upstream translations? Or do we get them for free?
<seb128> what do you mean by upstream translations?
<seb128> the ones coming from the .po shipped with the source are autoimported
<seb128> no approval needed
<jbicha> I feel like there's a lot I still don't understand about LP translations so that's why I was asking :)
<willcooke> desktoppers - duplicate posts to the desktop mailing list are being looked at.  I think I know where they are coming from, but not why yet.  If I dont get a response I'll block the email address and see if that helps.
<jbicha> Should ~ubuntu-core-dev be part of ~indicator-applet-developers and ~unity-team ?
<seb128> jbicha, that would make sense I guess? unsure if that hadn't been done for a reason, like email spam or something
<Laney> probably the upstream teams wanted to review changes going in
<Laney> but that's not so relevant now :(
<didrocks> yeah, IIRC, that was the discussions
<didrocks> separations of concerns
<didrocks> but that was before debian/ dir was in upstream tree
<jbicha> I emailed charles late Friday about ~indicator-applet-developers
<Laney> core-dev has been invited
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers according to this page
<Laney> someone on the DMB could accept that
<didrocks> sil2100: mind doing it ^
<sil2100> Looking
<Laney> â¥
<sil2100> Laney, didrocks: done!
<didrocks> thanks sil2100 :)
<sil2100> yw ;)
<jbicha> didrocks: are you going to have unity-session as a binary package from the Unity source?
<sil2100> I wonder if the pspmteam for product strategy is still a 'thing'?
<kenvandine> sil2100, probably not, but not sure
<didrocks> jbicha: no, it's going to be from gnome-session package for now (as it was there before and all our patches are there)
<jbicha> didrocks: I'd rather that not be in maintained inside gnome-session
<didrocks> we can see and move it to unity source later on
<didrocks> but for now, let's keep it simple, there are a lot of moving pieces already
<didrocks> but yeah, nothing against moving it later on :)
<jbicha> I think it makes gnome-session *more* complicated to patch it instead of just shipping plain session files in the right package, but maybe later :)
<didrocks> it doesn't: look at the diff, but yeah, later will makes sense and it's easy enough once all the transition is done
<jbicha> seb128: can you look into the desktop version tracker? it stopped updating a few weeks ago
<didrocks> sil2100: sorry again, I invited ~ubuntu-core-dev to ~unity-team as well.
<sil2100> didrocks: on it!
<didrocks> thx man :)
<sil2100> didrocks: done again ;) Feel free to poke me if any other places need that, it's just a button press so I can do that anytime
 * Laney breaks all things all the time
<didrocks> sil2100: there probably will be, thanks! :)
<didrocks> Laney: like what?
<Laney> hmm, let me think
<Laney> not enough easter eggs in unity
<didrocks> don't know if G-S has any btw, if there are less than unity, it's a critical bug!
<seb128> jbicha, let me have a look to versions
<jbicha> didrocks: I think we're missing a dependencyâ¦ https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/28957
<jbicha> I'll let you handle the MIR ;)
<didrocks> jbicha: ahah, I'll surely autoapprove all the things for the easter egg :p
<didrocks> especially for wanda
<Laney> I just got a weird sense that I was looking down a hole into my computer
<Laney> something to do with the black top bar and the colours of the website I was on
<Laney> ...or a brain injury...
<didrocks> sounds like an interesting website!
<Laney> bugzilla.gnome.org!
<Laney> actually that is quite hole-like
<didrocks> haha
<Trevinho> Laney: could you publish https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2822 ?
<Laney> sure
<Trevinho> ta
<jackpot51> So, we at System76 are looking at using GNOME Initial Setup instead of Ubiquity OEM mode for OEM installs
<jackpot51> We feel it has better integration with the rest of the GNOME experience
<jackpot51> I am implementing encrypted home support in accountsservice, and I would like to allow the password strength to be overridden by the user, if desired
<jackpot51> How does this sound?
<tyhicks> jackpot51: hi - to make sure that I understand, you're wanting to allow the user to enter a weak password?
<jbicha> tyhicks: I think ubiquity already does that?
<tyhicks> jbicha: I'm not certain about that
<jbicha> let me test today's daily and check :)
<seb128> jbicha, the fact that ubiquity does it or not doesn't change the question?
<jbicha> I think that gnome-initial-setup's password check (should be the same as gnome-control-center's) is stricter than ubiquity's at least
<jackpot51> Anaconda lets you click the next button twice
<seb128> ubiquity hints about the password strength but doesn't prevent you using a weak one
<jbicha> and it would be nice for them to match anyway
<jackpot51> Yeah, gnome is super duper strict
<seb128> g-c-c/u-c-c do prevent you using a weak one
<jackpot51> I remember that, I had to use passwd for a temporary user
<jackpot51> We often set up lab machines with really simple passwords, so it is a nuisance
<seb128> jackpot51, do you plan to work with us on that or just do it as a system76 specific change?
<seb128> that = using gnome-initial-setup
<jackpot51> Absolutely, I plan to work with you. I am building a patch for accountsservice that will add encrypted home
<seb128> great
<seb128> do you have user testing of both?
<jackpot51> I made ubiquity skip the account setup by removing the ubi-usersetup plugin, then it booted straight into gnome initial setup
<jbicha> for context, I have some instructions to try out Initial Setup's new user mode at LP: #1673453
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1673453 in Ubuntu GNOME "Use gnome-initial-setup to replace 2nd half of ubiquity" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673453
<seb128> and how do they compare feature wise?
<jbicha> (that was before the big GNOME announcement and I had not thought of ubiquity oem-mode when I opened that bug)
<jackpot51> They are nearly feature identical
<tyhicks> jackpot51: from a security standpoint, protecting the mount key with a weak passphrase is really a waste of CPU cycles
<jackpot51> The only missing thing is encrypted home
<tyhicks> jackpot51: the wrapped-passphrase file, which contains the mount passphrase that's then wrapped with the login passphrase, is the weak link in home dir encryption
<jackpot51> Timezone, keyboard setup, network setup, and user account setup from ubiquity are handled by Initial Setup
<jackpot51> tyhicks, I would expect users selecting encrypted home to use a strong password, but it would be up to them how to set up their computer
<tyhicks> jackpot51: if an attacker can easily brute-force the login passphrase, then you're wasting your time doing encryption
<tyhicks> jackpot51: I agree - however, the weak password warning should be very clear about this because most users will not understand the consequences
<seb128> jackpot51, so you plan to strip down ubiquity ?
<seb128> I think those plans should be discussed on ubuntu-devel]
<seb128> @
<seb128> with rational
<seb128> they are probably something we might to want to look at for Ubuntu itself, but having people driving the discussion with us would be useful otherwise it feels like people are just too busy and nobody is going to drive forward
<jackpot51> tyhicks, I don't think you understand. I want to make two *independent* changes to Initial Setup:
<jackpot51> 1 - allow the user to use any password they like. Pop up a dialog forcing confirmation for weaker passwords
<jackpot51> 2 - allow the selection of encrypted home on the account setup page
<isantop> tyhicks: The real problem with encrypted home and weak/no passwords is poor security, not CPU cycles
<jbicha> jackpot51: do you intend to push all Ubuntu users through Initial Setup's new user mode, or just for OEMs?
<isantop> Which can be mitigated with a good warning about weak passwords
<jackpot51> Yes, jbicha, I think both can go through Initial Setup
<jbicha> jackpot51: have you tested an ISO with ubiquity changed to do that yet?
<tyhicks> isantop: yes, I know that. I was saying that it is a waste of time to encrypt your data with a key that's persistently stored with a weak wrapping passphrase.
<jackpot51> Yeah, I have one I have been testing
<isantop> tyhicks: Not more of a waste than using a strong password
<tyhicks> isantop: I don't understand what you mean by that but we seem to be arguing for the same thing
<jackpot51> jbicha: Basically, take the ubuntu gnome ISO. `rm /usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-usersetup.py` in the squashfs
<jackpot51> Then it will take you straight from the installer to initial setup on the first reboot
<jackpot51> I think the same thing would work with the 17.10 ISO
<jackpot51> I did not have as much success skipping the timezone or consolesetup plugins
<jbicha> oh that sounds easier than my method :)
<jackpot51> But I am sure I could figure it out ;)
<tyhicks> jackpot51: note that I'm looking into moving home directory encryption from eCryptfs over to use ext4 encryption but I'm still in the early stages of that
<jackpot51> tyhicks: That is good to know. Will it still use `adduser --encrypt-home` ?
<tyhicks> jackpot51: yes, adduser will be updated to do the right thing
<tyhicks> jackpot51: are you solely relying on adduser to handle the setup of the encrypted home?
<jackpot51> Yes, gnome-initial-setup uses libaccountsservice, which uses adduser internally to do encrypted home. So my patch will add a boolean to add --encrypt-home to the adduser call
<Laney> I'm off for a bit, see you later
<jackpot51> Here it is, so far: https://pastebin.com/PKVF5DSp
<jackpot51> And since I like gist better (no ads): https://gist.github.com/jackpot51/8e24f48ec97d26f9f49d0750a92bd8bc
<tyhicks> jackpot51: great, it should be a transparent change from that standpoint
<jackpot51> Sweet
<seb128> k, time for dinner&co, I might read some backlog and deal with some emails later on
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
<kenvandine> you too seb128
<seb128> jackpot51, in any case please start a discussion on ubuntu-devel@ on what changes you think would be improvements and why you think Ubuntu should follow that road
<seb128> jackpot51, that would be the right way to get what you want and help Ubuntu at the same time :-)
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> sarnold, sorry to bug you, any update on the gdm MIR?
<sarnold> kenvandine: no progress, last week was crazy. sorry.
<kenvandine> sarnold, understood, i'll pester you again in a couple days :)
<immu> so its GDM then?
<immu> set in stone?
<sarnold> kenvandine: thanks! :D
<kenvandine> immu, yup
<willcooke> night all
<immu> oke then, how is the distro shapping up and how can i move from 17.04 to daily builds
<jbicha> immu: 17.10 is still in early Alpha so you may want to try in a VM?
<immu> ok
<jbicha> daily builds are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<jbicha> and you can upgrade from an older release with   update-manager -d
<jibel> I use artful on my main machine, with gnome shell and X and it's quite stable.
<ogra> but you are french :)
<jibel> ogra, do you mean our definition of stability is less strict than the german one? :)
<ogra> dunno, but you seem at least more brave than everyone else (seeing the election)
<ogra> ;)
<jibel> indeed :)
<jibel> ogra, unlike you we don't keep a chancelor for 12 years ;)
<ogra> well, we lack a proper replacement
<ogra> at least we did ... schulz coould actually be a candidate for the first time in ages (though i dont think he will make it)
<jibel> ogra, next target for Macron, chancelor of Europe ;P ... in a year
<ogra> LOL
<k_alam> Please look into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1698638
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1698638 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime list evolution calendar full-day event a day before actual date of event (Unity-7)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-20
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: So, further to bug 1670933, seems that removing all code to manage at-spi manually from both unity-greeter and lightdm-gtk-greeter solves the problem, and systemd cleans up properly aftewards, and at-spi is able to remove AT_SPI_BUS from the root window. Going to work on merges for unity-greeter and the gtk greeter, and SRU these for 17.04.
<ubot5`> bug 1670933 in Light Display Manager "Accessibility partly broken due to X root window being kept from login session." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1670933
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, do you think the code was required pre-systemd or was it just crap code?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: It was required pre-systemd.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, good to hear you found the issue!
<TheMuso> Well, I didn't really, but this solves it.
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<didrocks> good morning
<flexiondotorg> Morning oSoMoN didrocks
<didrocks> hey flexiondotorg
<oSoMoN> hey flexiondotorg, didrocks
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN ;)
<lan3y> morning!
<lan3y> WHY
<willcooke> morning Laney
<Laney> MORNING!
<seb128> good morning distro
<seb128> hey oSoMoN didrocks Laney willcooke
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, willcooke, laney
<willcooke> hey guys
<willcooke> It's cloudy today - yay!
<willcooke> It's only 24
<seb128> lucky you
<seb128> it went down a bit during the night
<didrocks> waow, channel is suddenly busy :)
<didrocks> hey Laney, willcooke, seb128!
<seb128> it's only 24Â°C inside this morning
<seb128> nice
<seb128> not going to stay that way though :-/
<didrocks> yeah, no sign of any clouds here
<seb128> it was 31Â°C in my desk corner yesterday
<Laney> hey seb128 hey didrocks hey willcooke hey oSoMoN!
<Laney> what a team
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> I just remembered about some seedlings I had in the greenhouse thing
<Laney> forgot to water them over the weekend
<Laney> ://///////////////////////////////////////////////
<Laney> oh door brb
<willcooke> :((
<seb128> woot, didrocks uploaded session renames in the early morning
<oSoMoN> looks like it will climb to 32Â°C here today, and it will reach 36Â°C on Friday
<willcooke> oooooof
<seb128> good luck with that
<didrocks> seb128: yep, only when the weather is cold :)
<didrocks> "Ã  la fraiche"
<oSoMoN> :)
<seb128> k, brb, grabbing some coffee before an hangout
<didrocks> seb128: speaking of which, when you get a chance, mind binNEWing unity-session from gnome-session?
<seb128> didrocks, I can do that :-)
<didrocks> so that it can transition and I can try again in the vm from release
<didrocks> thanks!
<didrocks> should be quick :)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: similar to Lyon :(
<didrocks> oSoMoN: do you have any fresh corner in your house?
<seb128> didrocks, NEWed
<seb128> I trust you on the versions, didn't check they were accurate
<seb128> worth case we get upgrade bugs and fix the issue
<flexiondotorg> Trevinho Thanks for the Compiz release!
<andyrock> morning!
<Trevinho> Morning all
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: no problem
<didrocks> seb128: \o/ thanks
<didrocks> seb128: yeah ;)
<didrocks> should be good, I incremented in between
<didrocks> the whole transition will work better once I reintroduce the ubuntu-session package
<didrocks> (that's what I'm doing right now and checking/thinking of the various corner cases)
<Trevinho>  willcooke, seb128: I posted the report http://blog.3v1n0.net/informatica/linux/gnome-fractional-and-multi-monitor-scaling-hackfest-the-report/
<willcooke> Trevinho, read that this morning, great job!
<oSoMoN> didrocks, not really, but I close all the windows and shutters in the morning when the sun starts pounding (around now), and the temperature inside remains bearable
<oSoMoN> (and reopen everything at night)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: what do you consider "bearable"? :)
<Laney> new sessions, nice!
<oSoMoN> thatâs very subjective indeed :) as long as Iâm not melting Iâm ok
<seb128> hey andyrock Trevinho!
<seb128> Trevinho, I saw for the report, nice work
<Trevinho> seb128: thanks... Now back to code, which I prefer ;-)
 * didrocks still needs to add the wayland session now to ubuntu
<seb128> Trevinho, so no scaling under GNOME/X?
<jbicha_> didrocks: oh you have a unity-session but not an ubuntu-session in -proposed now?
<didrocks> jbicha: yeah, that was the intermediate goal, I'm working on the ubuntu-session for the next upload
<didrocks> jbicha: see the trello card you commented on :)
<jbicha> didrocks: did we decide whether Wayland was going to be "Ubuntu" right now?
<didrocks> jbicha: right now, I keep parity until we have a definitive answer, so ubuntu-session will present both as gnome did. Xorg is the default as swapping will be easy I guess
<didrocks> I guess the rest needs testing before deciding one way or the other
<didrocks> (checking the fallback mode and so on)
<didrocks> kenvandine[m][m]: btw, jbicha is in favor of having ubuntu gnome user (so people who had "gnome" session selected) to transition to the "ubuntu" one. This should only be done once as then, people reselecting "gnome" did it in purpose to get upstream vanilla GNOME
<didrocks> [m][m] is running matrix on matrix? :)
<jbicha> ok, Debian will be flipping the default "GNOME" back to Wayland (like upstream since 3.22) probably whenever they upload gnome-session next
<didrocks> interesting, I still got some vary feedbacks about that, but we'll be to tests once all the transitions are done
<didrocks> (I get at least the animation on boxes/qemu + wayland, which I don't get on boxes/X)
<jibel> didrocks, why would you transition users who were running vanilla gnome to ubuntu gnome? I mean if they were using unity then they're migrated to gnome, but if they were running a gnome session (that they installed manually and on purpose) they should stay on a gnome session not ubuntu? or am I missing something
<didrocks> jibel: that's what jbicha suggested on the card (they were using ubuntu GNOME, not fully vanilla GNOME). I don't have strong opinion either ways, but you can comment on it
<didrocks> if I find back jbicha's comment :)
<jibel> didrocks, the only thing we need to migrate is the default ubuntu session, other sessions should remain unchanged IMHO
<didrocks> ah, here we go: https://trello.com/c/KTYyAQlb/126-lightdm-gdm-migration
<didrocks> jibel: ^
<jbicha> jibel: Ubuntu GNOME is being upgraded to Ubuntu
<Trevinho> seb128: no, no scaling under X. the problem is mainly related to the fact that there's no input redirection
<Trevinho> seb128: what would be possible is to use Xrandr scaling for doing the same, it's not something has been done so far. Nor there was much interest. But... It might be done, as all the work done for wayland is still a prereq
<jbicha> as of today, there's no difference between the Ubuntu session and the vanilla GNOME session so it's unclear yet what the diff will be
<didrocks> jbicha: btw, agreed that this vanilla gnome session is just using the upstream files "gnome*"?
<didrocks> (the ones you were using previously in ubuntu GNOME)
<jbicha> didrocks: yes, that's fine
<jibel> jbicha, makes sense in the context of the flavor Ubuntu Gnome
<didrocks> jibel: the difference is people upgrading from Ubuntu GNOME will have this "upstream GNOME" session available on gdm (those on ubuntu would only have by default the "ubuntu" sessions)
<didrocks> https://trello.com/c/TLheyL5G/152-rename-ubuntu-session-to-unity-session-and-add-a-new-ubuntu-session-being-gnome-shell
<didrocks> (my latest comment)
<didrocks> I guess we have a decent upgrade story with this
<jibel> didrocks, right
<seb128> Trevinho, k, that's a bit of a tricky choice what we are going to do, all users are not going to get wayland in the LTS and we don't even know if it's good enough to be default yet
 * didrocks is surprised to not have missed any "exit 0" yet with bzr bd-do. We are getting older and more rigorous :)
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> missing the exit is fine
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah i see... well, I can see what the efforts are to get something in X too once we've done the upper level things
<jbicha> didrocks: it's possible for Ubuntu GNOME upgraders to be prompted to auto-remove whatever gnome-session package
<seb128> what is not is re-entering the bzr bd-do then
<seb128> Trevinho, yeah, we might know if we need it by then
<seb128> Trevinho, but wayland/nvidia is not there yet, it's not clear that their drivers are going to support old cards and even when the driver works it looks like xwayland doesn't and it's tricky to provide a session without support for "legacy" applications
<didrocks> seb128: yes ;)
<seb128> and not even speaking about nvidia, wayland still has issues
<didrocks> jbicha: Not directly if we want people to be able to reinstall it. The other way would be I guess to create a separate "gnome-vanilla-session" package. But I'm unsure we should do that
<didrocks> jbicha: also, I think for Ubuntu GNOME users, it makes sense to leave an easy way to switch to a pure GNOME experience as it may be what they desired at first?
<didrocks> sounds more like a good feature to have to me
<jbicha> didrocks: there are 2 types of UG users: those who want Ubuntu running GNOME and those who want more of that pure GNOME experience
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> that's why they will have both after upgrade. Being default to "Ubuntu running GNOME"
<didrocks> defaulted*
<jbicha> I think we want to help the first group; the second group can easily install a separate package later
<didrocks> not sure I was clear on the card, the experience should be:
<didrocks> you ran Ubuntu GNOME, you are now defaulted to Ubuntu (but if you click that small gear, you have access to the pure GNOME experience)
<didrocks> the first group would have nothing to do, basically, isn't that fine?
<didrocks> (and yes, we need to patch GDM to do that "one time" transition)
<jbicha> I would like upgrades of Ubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME to end up in as close to the same condition as possible
<didrocks> that would mean introducing that new "vanilla" package I guess
<jbicha> IMO I would prefer vanilla GNOME to be a separate install afterwards to make that happen
<jbicha> I need to confirm with darkxst but I think I want ubuntu-gnome-desktop to be transitional to ubuntu-desktop and likely a new package created for more of a vanilla GNOME
<didrocks> both are easily doable, (even without patch against upstream, but diverging more from Debian though)
<didrocks> basically, under that configuration, that would end up "gnome-session" being an empty package
<jbicha> I don't see why?
<didrocks> gnome-session has the vanilla gnome session
<jbicha> unity is not an empty package but it's marked as auto-removable now because it's not in main
<didrocks> you basically want to be removed on upgrade, but still being installed
<didrocks> needs testing
<didrocks> so, demoting it can be enough
<jbicha> yes, that's what I was thinking :)
<darkxst> hey jbicha didrocks
<didrocks> hey darkxst!
<jbicha> good evening!
<jbicha> I woke up too early today
<darkxst> I would like to see a way to get back to vanilla GNOME session, depending on how many things Ubuntu messes with, however I don't think it needs to be installed by default
<seb128> jbicha, you might want to go ahead and open MIR-style bugs for the things you suggested to add to the default installation, it feels like the discussions stalled on the list and that we have specific points to discuss/check for each of those
<didrocks> darkxst: even for people upgrading from Ubuntu GNOME?
<didrocks> darkxst: like, defaulting to ubuntu, but having the option listed in gdm by default to start a vanilla GNOME session?
<darkxst> didrocks, it really depends on the scope of changes that end up landing
<flexiondotorg> Laney jbicha I've updated the indicator-session merge proposal that add MATE support
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicator-session/mate-integration/+merge/325600
<flexiondotorg> jbicha I removed the Suggests: as requested.
<flexiondotorg> Can you take another look please?
<darkxst> obviously shipping a vanilla session is easy if required
<didrocks> darkxst: not that easy with extensions activations and themes, but yeah, it's doable and we want to do it
<didrocks> I guess the question is what happens for people upgrading from Ubuntu GNOME, we all agree it seems to default them to the Ubuntu session, but should they have this vanilla session available in GDM by default or should they have to install a package for it?
<jbicha> I think users expect to get Ubuntu when they upgrade
<jbicha> I'm fine with everything still in universe being marked as autoremovable (or however Ubuntu's normal upgrades work)
<darkxst> It would be easier to say if we knew how many users use Ubuntu GNOME just for gnome-shell or how many for the vanilla GNOME experience.
<didrocks> yeah, unsure how apart from a biased poll would guide usâ¦
<darkxst> but I would say default to ubuntu sessions, and perhaps install vanilla session for ubuntu GNOME upgrade
<jbicha> I think those who went out of their way to install Ubuntu GNOME could easily go out of their way one more time to install the not-Canonical vanilla GNOME metapackage
<didrocks> darkxst: I was coming to that conclusion as well
<darkxst> didrocks, pretty sure a poll won't help much!
<didrocks> yep :)
<jbicha> but some of our users just preferred GNOME to Unity and don't mind some Ubuntu customizations
<jbicha> those who hated Ubuntu customizations probably switched to another distro honestly :/
<darkxst> Id probably be more inclined to monitor the reactions throughout betas
<didrocks> good idea, let's promote this in the beta
<didrocks> and see how people think about this?
<darkxst> jbicha, true, I suspect many users will be fine with default ubuntu session
<seb128> didrocks, I'm not sure I followed the details, promoting what?
<didrocks> seb128: basically, I proposed that plan: https://trello.com/c/TLheyL5G/152-rename-ubuntu-session-to-unity-session-and-add-a-new-ubuntu-session-being-gnome-shell
<didrocks> so one of my last comment
<didrocks> the question is should we have the vanilla GNOME session available in GDM for people upgrade from Ubuntu GNOME?
<jbicha> darkxst: yeah, right now, Ubuntu 17.10 is fine (I'd like more GNOME apps but those are easy to install and window buttons/theme are easy too)
<didrocks> seems opinion diverge (but that's a minor detail anyway)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, what is in the card looks fine to me
<seb128> having Ubuntu + GNOME sessions listed is fine imho
<seb128> most users don't care/look at the sessions listed on the greeter anyway, they just log in
<seb128> so as long as the default is good...
<didrocks> seb128: just to be clear, the ubuntu desktop won't have the vanilla session available in GDM by default
<didrocks> the only remaining question mark is people upgrading from Ubuntu GNOME
<seb128> yes, that's good
<seb128> right
<seb128> what I wrote ^ was about Ubuntu GNOME upgraders
<seb128> sorry for not being clear
<didrocks> ok ;) I wasn't sure we were talking about the exact same thing
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> yeah, sorry
<seb128> yw!
<didrocks> is there any place gnome-shell is in a vcs btw? the debian one only have the debian branches?
<jbicha> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-shell/ubuntu
<didrocks> thanks jbicha
<didrocks> was easy :)
<didrocks> ah good, Robert just set Vcs-Bzr
<didrocks> I looked at that first
<jbicha> yeah, it wasn't in bzr until recently
<didrocks> shouldn't GNOME shell brings ubuntu-session | gnome-session?
<didrocks> (otherwise, you install the component without any session to start it)
<seb128> jbicha, I removed a staled lock from the versions update job, hopefully next cron round works
<jbicha> thanks
<seb128> thanks for pointing the issue out
<seb128> didrocks, that makes sense to me
<jbicha> unity-session needs to be demoted to universe
<seb128> if nothing keeps it in main it's going to show on component mismatch and being demoted, no need to worry about it
<jbicha> it's on excuses
<seb128> ?
<seb128> ah, missing depends
<seb128> well, it can be on excuses & component_mismatch
<seb128> doesn't change what I wrote
<jbicha> oh, I see it in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.html now
<didrocks> demoted
<seb128> ditto
<didrocks> demotion race, :)
<seb128> hope it's not one of those launchpad bugs where double change delete binaries
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> it was listing "main" for me, was it for you?
 * didrocks rerun to see if it's only the published
<seb128> yes
<seb128> but I kept the confirm prompt open for a minute while I was checking if other binaries should be demoted as well from the component mismatch
<seb128> you probably did the move in between
<seb128> oh well, let's see
<didrocks> could be, yeah
<seb128> if the binary goes missing we just need a no change upload
<didrocks> yep, let's look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+publishinghistory + rmadison
<Laney> I think you can do a copy to get it back
<Laney> if tha thappens
<didrocks> hum, would need to look for the exact options to revive it back
<didrocks> we'll see
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> but I think we are fine, iirc the bug is when demoting and promoting again
<jbicha> duflu: can you be more specific about LP: #1698795 ?
<jbicha> or maybe I'll be more specific
<jbicha> GNOME Shell would prefer to use a symbolic icon so for nautilus, it prefers
<jbicha> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/symbolic/apps/org.gnome.Nautilus-symbolic.svg (since the regular Nautilus icon is named 'org.gnome.Nautilus')
<duflu> jbicha: That is didrocks ... I was only guessing I could see what he meant
<duflu> And good night
<jbicha> oops, I got pinged when you tagged it, thanks
<didrocks> jbicha: we need to ship ambiance/radiance symbolic icons I guess
<jbicha> didrocks: why?
<didrocks> or you have 2 different sets of icons represented
<didrocks> the one in alt-tab/the dash and one on top which doesn't look similar at all
<didrocks> not sure if it's just me, but looks really odd
<jbicha> it probably is supposed to look different since the top bar icon is small and monocolor?
<didrocks> yeah, but it can still be monocolor but looking as if it's coming from the same theme
<didrocks> for instance, my wife wonders if she clicked on the right application when seeing another kind of icons appearing
<didrocks> (like nautilus)
<jbicha> didrocks: if you can get new icons, I'd really like the extra Ubuntu apps (like startup disk creator) to have high contrast icons
<jbicha> that's been on my wishlist for years
<jbicha> Turn on High Contrast in Settings>Universal Access
<jbicha> pretty high contrast icons for GNOME stuff but not for Ubuntu apps :(
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> unsure, that's something that willcooke will be able to request ^
<didrocks> (lunch time)
<jbicha> Laney: I think I'm going to drop the evolution-tests package; it requires python3-behave which isn't packaged and the Evo maintainer says the tests are old anyway
<willcooke> we wont get any news icons this cycle
<willcooke> *new
<didrocks> willcooke: any idea how we can change this bad looking icons? We can prevent symbolic ones maybe and just scale down ours (as firefox for instance, is colored)
<Laney> jbicha: did you just have an argument about that?
<jbicha> I think the whole ubuntu-mono-dark/light thing needs to be overhauled anyway since it pre-dates gtk symbolic icons
 * didrocks really away now
<jbicha> Laney: yes :(
<Laney> :/
<Laney> it's probably a good idea to test run them before uploading
<Laney> https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-artful/artful/amd64/e/evolution/20170620_083231_13c20@/log.gz is not a good sign either
<jbicha> I can't run autopkgtests from a PPA until the autopkgtests exist in Ubuntu for that package first
<willcooke> didrocks, lets discuss in our next 1:1 (re: icons)
<jbicha> but yes I should have run them locally
<jbicha> that autopkgtest error was a typo: xvfb instead of xfvb
<Laney> yes
<Laney> I'm saying that test running it would have caught that
<Laney> anyway, I won't argue with dropping a test that's only been around a few days and never passed
<Laney> so as you wish
<jbicha> ok to drop the evolution-tests package too?
<Laney> I would do if it's not being used
<Laney> what's up with these duplicate posts on the list?
<seb128> jbicha, the versions page has been updated now
<Laney> one of them has Newsgroups: local.ubuntu.desktop
<willcooke> Laney, I tracked down the guy and emailed him last night, he said he's having issues with inews and he's looking at it
<willcooke> sheesh, loads of lag today
<willcooke> 14seconds here and same on Canonical
<Laney> doh
 * willcooke eyes his router
<Laney> willcooke: can you block by header in mailman?
 * willcooke looks
 * Laney has passwords to other lists, will look too
<Laney> privacy options -> spam filters -> header_filter_rules
<willcooke> ta
<willcooke> looking at the headers from that guy now
<willcooke> Newsgroups: local.ubuntu.desktop
<willcooke> could use that?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> or even newsgroups: .*
<Laney> not sure if it's ever legit to have that?
<willcooke> I don't /think/ so
<Laney> ubuntu-devel gets some weird spam
<willcooke> or if it is, it shouldnt reach our mailing list
<Laney> "packaging hotline"
<Laney> wrong kind of packaging guys
<willcooke> Laney, regex:  ^Newsgroups: local.ubuntu.desktop$
<willcooke> that look ok?
<willcooke> based on this excerpt:
<Laney> technically you probably need to escape the .
<willcooke> To: ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
<willcooke> Path: news.cjsa2.com!not-for-mail
<willcooke> From: Robert Ancell <robert.ancell@canonical.com>
<willcooke> Newsgroups: local.ubuntu.desktop
<willcooke> Subject: Testing GNOME Software 3.20.5 in Xenial
<willcooke> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 03:11:23 -0700
<Laney> but it will still match
<willcooke> and the colon
<willcooke> >>> import re
<willcooke> >>> re.escape("Newsgroups: local.ubuntu.desktop")
<willcooke> 'Newsgroups\\:\\ local\\.ubuntu\\.desktop'
<Laney> haha
<Laney> whyyyyyyyyy
<jamesh> maybe print re.escape(...
<jamesh> so you don't see the repr of the string
<willcooke> ah, I see
<Laney> yay
<willcooke> ok, I've saved that - lets see what happens
<Laney> me fuchsias just came
<willcooke> :) nice
<Laney> https://otherfellow.co.uk/hardy-fuchsias-k-to-z/star-wars
<Laney> looking forward to that one
<jbicha> didrocks: btw, Fedora distro-patches Firefox to add a symbolic icon, no idea why that isn't upstream yet
<didrocks> ack
<Laney> looks like unity-session went to universe undamaged
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<Laney> oh god
<Laney> my laptop crashed while dist-upgrading and now it's not coming back
<Laney> ffsssssssss
<Laney> failed to connect to lvmetad
<Laney> it's too early even for init=/bin/sh
 * Laney cries
<Laney> USB key time
<Laney> phew
<didrocks> all good now?
<Laney> who knows what happened
<Laney> but I'm here!
<xclaesse> Looks like Microsoft is disabling Skype 4.3 July 1st, wondering if Canonical will update the partners archive
<seb128> xclaesse, hey, good question...
<seb128> willcooke, ^ do you know?
<didrocks> I'm quite unsure why unity-session doesn't pass with ubuntukylin-meta
<didrocks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/artful/update_output.txt
<willcooke> seb128, xclaesse - I don't know, I'll find out.
<seb128> thx
<xclaesse> seb128, willcooke: thanks
<didrocks> trying: unity-settings-daemon gnome-session ubuntukylin-meta
<didrocks> this triplet is supposed to pass, but unsure about the     * s390x: ubuntukylin-desktop
<xclaesse> only 10 days remaining for all your users to get disconnected... if an update can be made via the partners repo that would be nicer to users :)
<xclaesse> depends on your contracts with MS...
<seb128> didrocks, Laney usually knows how to read those, I guess the s390x issue needs at least to be resolved?
<xclaesse> if canonical even still has any
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> as it's not part of the seed, I bet it's still depending on ubuntu-session
<didrocks> unsure how this archi is handled for meta
<didrocks> ah, one sec, I just apt-get source
<didrocks> need dget on artful to double check
 * kenvandine wonders why the desktop seeds even build on s390x
<xnox> it is weird that kylin-meta is built for s390x
<xnox> as that would not work =/
<kenvandine> xnox, exactly
<didrocks> yesh, there is no desktop-s390x
<kenvandine> kylin is desktop right/
<kenvandine> ?
<didrocks> but there is a desktop-recommends-s390x :p
<xnox> didrocks, i think we need infinity to do magic to fix s390x missmatches for ubuntukylin-desktop - or like stop building it on s390x.
<xnox> cause we should not force any uninstallables into the archive.
<kenvandine> i think just stop building it on s390x, it's pointless
<xnox> after infinity fixed them all.
<didrocks> yeah
<xnox> kenvandine, even if we stop, it would still need AA magic to remove the stale binary.
<kenvandine> indeed
<xnox> so best to ask what AAs want us to do here =)
<didrocks> infinity: mind giving a look at this? ^ (I don't think we are in a hurry, as nothing is seeded in official ubuntu flavor, no need to rush)
<didrocks> xnox: well, seb128 and I are AAs :p
<didrocks> so we can remove
<didrocks> depends on how people want to deal with this, I think there is no rush AFAIK
<didrocks> at worse, if nothing is fixed tomorrow, we can remove the binary temporary to ease the transition
<xnox> didrocks, right =) *trustworthy* AAs =)))))) </joking>
<didrocks> xnox: that's why you are not on the list ;)
<didrocks> anyway, let's see once infinity is around how he prefers to get this fixed and let's see that tomorrow midday, if there isn't a resolution, there will be my new gnome-session with ubuntu-session binary (but I still think that kylin should deps on unity-session for now)
<kenvandine> Laney, how hard would it be to snap gnome-software?  It would be cool if 16.04 users could get the latest gnome-software with snap support, etc
<jbicha> xnox: hi, I'm pinging again about LP: #1695928
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1695928 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Please remove obsolete UOA packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695928
<xnox> jbicha, hi, so what do you extect me to do?
<xnox> you should mark the bug as affecting all the packages you want to remove.
<xnox> and mark it as trianged, then ~ubuntu-archive will look at it.
<jbicha> xnox: you were involved in Unity8 removals before; are you no longer very interested?
<xnox> i am.
<xnox> jbicha, i'm not an AA so i cannot actually remove things.
<jbicha> ok, so I'm looking for your approval then I was going to go to slangasek
<xnox> only request removals, just like everybody else.
<jbicha> I didn't want to bother him if we didn't agree on the list
<xnox> the list looks sane.
<jbicha> I don't think it's helpful to mark one bug as affecting 30+ pkgs
<xnox> as long as desktop does want to drop ubuntu-system-settings
<xnox> right?
<xnox> it's the process that AAs use.
<Laney> kenvandine: it would conflict with the system one
<Laney> kenvandine: the version in xenial does have snap support; robert worked on that
<jbicha> does anyone object to Unity8 being removed from artful?
<Laney> seb128: lemme see
<kenvandine> Laney, ah... great :)
<Laney> it's just not in a separate package there
<kenvandine> jorge made it sound like it didn't
<kenvandine> but i shouldn't always listen to jorge :)
<Laney> it's in the main one
<Laney> seb128: ubuntukylin-desktop requires unity, ubuntu-session breaks old unity, new unity isn't ready to migrate yet
<Laney> no didrocks so I can't tell him too
<Laney> not sure what you're talking about with s390x
<Laney> maybe I'm not looking at the same place
<jbicha> kenvandine: I split gnome-software's plugins out so we wouldn't need to MIR flatpak (support was added in 3.22)
<Laney> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/artful/update_output_notest.txt says that they will go in once unity is ready
<seb128> Laney, ok, great, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, unsure how a snapped gnome-software would interact with packagekit or aptdaemon, it would non trivial to have it confined at least
<jbicha> o/
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> ahoy
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 20 15:30:42 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<oSoMoN> ð
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel, heber(out), kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<jbicha> ugh, Current topi
<kenvandine> o/
<andyrock> hey
<jibel> hi o/
<Laney> hi
<willcooke> jibel, good spot - I'll change the topic before I start next week, and change it back again when I'm done
<willcooke> s/jibel/jbicha
<Laney> it happened last week too
<Laney> just shrink it a bit after the meeting
<willcooke> kk
<oSoMoN> URL-shortening the link to trello should do the trick
<willcooke> door, sec
<willcooke> back
<willcooke> not Amazon
<willcooke> :(
<willcooke> right, let's go
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<andyrock> # Lost some time trying to understand how to port snapd-glib to trusty (Rober alread did that, next time I'll make sure to ask before)
 * willcooke makes a note that andyrock can be a snapd glib maintainer 
<andyrock> # Working on adding livepatch status gui to update-manager (so list of CVEs + description)
<andyrock> # eow
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> Trying to find a way to disable WiFi Direct for iwlwifi devices. Looks like some enterprise AP hardware blocks them for security and most probably there's no way of doing that.
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thanks
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<willcooke> * Migrate unity session from ubuntu-session to a new unity-session package and all related changes in other packages due to systemd session.
<willcooke> * Snapcraft desktop helper time tracing for possible optimizations. Found that we can shove off 2 or 3s at first start if we rewrite it in Golang, but can't do way more (the longest time is waiting for update-mime-database to proceed which is a multiple seconds process)
<willcooke> * Worked on theme snaps (HO with seb). Draft some examples on github and wrote a google doc with needed changes and blockers on our existing snapd interface mechanism.
<willcooke> * some AA work for KDE packages.
<willcooke> * Merged some ubuntu make contributor PR.
<willcooke> * Prepared Stuttgart nearby travel for client doing snap demos and workshops.
<willcooke> * Finish a suite of blog posts to be published really (on ubuntu make vs classic snap experience).
<willcooke> * Answered on some desktop related questions on the snapcraft forum.
<willcooke> #topic duflu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<willcooke> * PulseAudio:
<willcooke>   - SRU of A2DP Bluetooth audio fixes to xenial:
<willcooke>     . Still waiting (4 weeks) to enter proposed (am I missing something?):
<willcooke> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=pulseaudio
<willcooke>     . The primary SRU bug (out of three) is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1582213
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1582213 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Xenial) "[xenial] Bluetooth device doesn't play any sound in A2DP mode unless set to HSP/HFP first" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> * BlueZ:
<willcooke>   - Release 5.45 to artful completed. Quicker than expected.
<willcooke>   - Investigated the #1 hottest bluez bug for desktop. Thought I had a fix but came to a surprising conclusion; it's actually invalid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1490349
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1490349 in bluez (Ubuntu) "15:10 and 16.04: bluetoothd "Failed to start discovery: org.bluez.Error.NotReady" after bluetoothd restarted" [High,Invalid]
<willcooke> * Video acceleration:
<willcooke>   - Got blocked in efforts to use Intel MSDK. Proprietary build dependencies and users having to rebuild their own video players are a roadblock. But hopeful that Intel fix this in future (they say they will).
<willcooke>   - Succeeded elsewhere using a different plan: GStreamer has a VA-API decoder:
<willcooke>     Result: 3% CPU to play 4K 60 FPS video on a Haswell desktop.
<willcooke>   - Even better: 4K H.265 HEVC video is now playable (requires Sky Lake, or Kaby Lake for 10-bit). Until now even modern machines haven't been able to play those properly (software decoding).
<willcooke>   - Documented instructions and future plans: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntelQuickSyncVideo
<willcooke> * Libinput:
<willcooke>   - Spent time trying to find workarounds for non-responsive touchpads under Wayland/libinput. No success yet but did notice artful is using an old libinput release. We should update.
<willcooke> * Other Audio:
<willcooke>   - Testing fixes for XPS 13 audio: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1654448
<willcooke> * Daily bug maintenance across gnome-shell, bluez, pulseaudio.
<willcooke>   - In particular gnome-shell performance is becoming a common topic:
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1654448 in linux (Ubuntu) "XPS 13 9360 and 9350, Realtek ALC3246, Headphone audio hiss" [Medium,In progress]
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bugs?field.tag=performance
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<jbicha> â¢ Completed Evolution 3.24.3 transition
<jbicha> â¢ Fixed several FTBFS resulting from vala 0.36 (although ricotz did most of the prep work, thanks!)
<jbicha> â¢ Merged NetworkManager and nm-applet 1.8 from Debian unstable (nplan autopkgtest failures keeping it in -proposed)
<jbicha> â¢ Merged dbus 1.10.10 from Debian stretch
<jbicha> â¢ Released Tweak Tool 3.25.3
<jbicha> â¢ Blogged about WebKit for Debian 9 release and new Tweak Tool release
<jbicha> eof
<willcooke> thanks jbicha
<willcooke> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<willcooke> * produced a working proof of concept of a strict confined snap
<willcooke> talking to xdg-desktop-portal and wrote about how others could test it
<willcooke> on the Snapcraft forum.  No replies so far.  I also tried to restart
<willcooke> the discussion about per-user mounts, which is also waiting.
<willcooke> * started the process of upstreaming the snap plugin for
<willcooke> gnome-builder.  The maintainer is receptive to accepting it, but would
<willcooke> like some changes to how things are done (let the IDE directly call
<willcooke> configure/make to enable incremental builds).
<willcooke> * Started on gnome-software bug #1690280 (allow installation of
<ubot5`> bug 1690280 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Classic confined snaps don't install" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690280
<willcooke> classic snaps).  Using Robert's initial patch, and working on the UI
<willcooke> side.
<willcooke> #topic jibel
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<jibel> * Continued work on desktop test plan and completed the part for gnome software
<jibel> * Investigating introspectability issues of gnome-software.
<jibel> * Merged job definition for running desktop tests on HW using testflinger.
<jibel> * Created document with highlights and definitions to start automating desktop tests.
<jibel> * Started implementing the foundations to run end user tests on gnome shell.
<jibel> eof
<willcooke> thanks jibel
<jibel> yw
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<kenvandine> * Finished snapping gedit using the gnome-3-24 platform snap, getting it into the store now
<kenvandine> * Created a topic on the snapcraft forum to discuss which snaps should be maintained by canonical vs community: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/which-snaps-should-be-supported-by-canonical/1064
<kenvandine> * Found some issues with using the gnome-3-24 snap when an app (like gedit) needed stage-packages that aren't in the gnome-3-24 snap but also depend on libs in the gnome-3-24.  Those libs would still get duplicated.  I have a workaround to strip out all of those files in the gedit snap, but it's not pretty.  I started a discussion on the snapcraft forum about this.
<kenvandine> * Continued to followup with security on the gdm MIR, no progress yet but I'll keep nagging them from time to time
<kenvandine> * Getting started on the LightDM -> GDM transition
 * kenvandine OUT
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<jbicha> lol
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<Laney> sec
<Laney> NO MORE SEC
<Laney> â¢ gnome-software/asgen:
<Laney> â Some prep packaging for 3.25. I said this would be uploaded 'this week' last week, but it hasn't happened yet, sry - still need to poke at a crash I saw
<Laney> â proposed a MP to asgen to generate type=codec data for gstreamer packages so they show up nicely in gnome-software
<Laney> â this work should all be good to go now once it's reviewed
<Laney> â¢ poking at / testing a fix for a glib testsuite problem
<Laney> â¢ much time discussing libtimezonemap change wrt India and reading about borders and stuff
<Laney> â¢ some babysitting of autopkgtest runners
<Laney> â¢ some upstream (GNOME) patch reviews
<Laney> ð
<willcooke> Is that... is that a bath tub?
<Laney> STEAMY!
<willcooke> lol
<kenvandine> lol
<Laney> actually it's not warm today
<willcooke> thanks for you help with libtimezonemap laney
<Laney> heh
<Laney> "n" "p"
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<oSoMoN> â¢ fixed bug #1697496
<ubot5`> bug 1697496 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium 59.0.3071.86 crashes at startup on x86" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697496
<oSoMoN> â¢ bisecting to find the upstream revision that caused bug #1696965, getting really close
<ubot5`> bug 1696965 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "First renderer process doesn't render page for chromium 59.0.3071.86 in KVM" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696965
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium beta to 60.0.3112.32, dev to 61.0.3128.3
<oSoMoN> â¢ working on libreoffice 5.3.3 snap, switched to classic confinement to resolve a number of open issues (triaged all snap-specific bugs), should have something ready for wider testing by tomorrow
<oSoMoN> âºââ»
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<seb128> oSoMoN, is there a tag or something to list the snap specific issues?
<willcooke> (sorry folks, another meeting going on)
<oSoMoN> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bugs?field.tag=snap
<seb128> great
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<seb128> â¢ tried some co-working spaces, pondering subscribing to one of those
<seb128> â¢ worked with Didier on detailing how snap themes could work, including writing examples
<seb128> â¢ replied to a snapcraft-forum discussion about themes with details of what is working today
<seb128> â¢ demoted a stack of unity components to universe
<seb128> â¢ talked to the mir team about gtk-mir in artful
<seb128> â¢ some binNEW reviews
<seb128> â¢ usual bugs triaging, participated in list discussions, etc
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Several crash fixes and stability improvements in cups-browsed.
<tkamppeter> - CUPS: Crash bug got fixed upstream and feature to identify temporary CUPS queues got added upstream, so requirements to make cups-browsed work together with new CUPS are fulfilled.
<tkamppeter> - Packaging: Debian opened unstable after the last release, so several printing packages got uploaded there. Synced CUPS, cups-filters, ippusbxd, HPLIP, Gutenprint, and foo2zjs to Ubuntu.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Student project coordination and mentoring.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<Trevinho> Â· Continued work in mutter and gnome-control-center
<Trevinho> Â· Review and landing of ubuntu-themes and compiz branches
<Trevinho> Â· Experimenting lighter Headerbar theme
<Trevinho> Â· Wrote a fractional scaling hackfest report (http://go.3v1n0.net/GNOME-Fractional-Report)
<Trevinho>   - Got some user feedback, and updating Scaling wiki accordingly
<Trevinho> Â· Reviews of some Trello cards
<Trevinho> Â· Some improvements to my work environment (wrote some gnome snippets, more automated build environment...)
<Trevinho> --
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<willcooke> - Rebased xenial gnome-software on 3.20.5
<willcooke> - SRU snapd-glib 1.13 to zesty, xenial
<willcooke> - SRU snapd-glib 1.12 to trusty. Required a big patch to support glib 2.40
<willcooke> - Fix up and resubmit zesty gnome-software SRU
<willcooke> - Disable LightDM guest session in artful to match security fixes in stable releases (not likely to be fixed soon).
<seb128> Trevinho, feel free to share the work environment improvement tips :-)
<willcooke> - Sponsored fixes to dee, hud, unity-greeter
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-06-20 | Current topi
<willcooke> 32 bit images.... I said I would get some indication of number of downloads - haven't got that yet
<seb128> I didn't find any info about apps which would stop 32 bit support and when
<gQuigs> I did some 32 bit image data from torrents a while ago.. I can look that up
<willcooke> Shall we punt it to next week again?
<seb128> +1
<willcooke> gQuigs, oh! that would be super useful, thanks
<willcooke> oki, if no objections I will move it to next week.
<willcooke> Anyone got any other business?
 * oSoMoN keeps his slang to himself
<jbicha> jackpot51 tole me he wanted to discuss the encrypted-home thing again, but maybe he stepped out
<jbicha> he's got patches for review at LP: #1699216
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1699216 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Encrypted home support" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699216
<jackpot51> I am here
<jackpot51> It is ready for testing - gnome-control-center and gnome-initial-setup have patches using a new accountsservice - look at the bug for details
<jackpot51> It means that the user creation in gnome-initial-setup and gnome-control-center allow you to select encrypted home folder
<Laney> jackpot51: the change to accountsservice is an API break, right?
<jackpot51> Yes, it is
<seb128> jackpot51, hey, what did you think about discussing those changes and gnome-initial-setup on ubuntu-devel@ as I suggested yesterday?
<jackpot51> A little bit
<Laney> I don't think we can do that
<Laney> what about making it a separate method?
<jackpot51> That is possible, I could make it a seperate function.
<jackpot51> The old function could become a stub that calls the new function with FALSE for the encrypt_home parameter
<jackpot51> This is meant to go along with another change - removing OEM mode from ubiquity and using gnome-initial-setup instead
<Laney> something like that
<jackpot51> I can probably complete that in an hour. I just need help to merge upstream, which is very important to me
<seb128> jackpot51, upstream bugs are on https://bugs.freedesktop.org that would be the first step, opening a bug describing what you need there
<Laney> indeed, having it upstream would be best
<Laney> the only problem is the --encrypt-home thing is Ubuntu specific?
<jackpot51> Yes, it appears to be. At the very least, having it upstream in Ubuntu is good
<jackpot51> Right now I am holding it in a PPA
<jbicha> that ext4 replacement might be really attractive to other distros when it's ready
<jackpot51> I agree. And at that point the patch can be offered to the most upstream place
<seb128> ext4 replacement?
<jackpot51> So - we are in agreement that such a patch, with the API compatability fixed, would go into upstream ubuntu easily?
<jackpot51> And may go further upstream if encrypt-home gets more wide support?
<jbicha> seb128: tyhicks said yesterday he'd like to switch to native ext4 instead of ecryptfs for encrypted home directories, but that's still an early WIP
<Trevinho> Laney: can you please add your sizes for https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeShell/ScaleFactorTests as I'm not sure I wrongly typed it at the office
<jackpot51> He said the same --encrypt-home flag I am using would be used, right?
<Trevinho> for the XPS 13 we had
<jackpot51> Well, I will update my patches on that bug for whomever is interested
<tyhicks> jackpot51: yes, same adduser flag will continue to work
<jackpot51> cool
<seb128> jackpot51, you keep ignoring my hint about discussing it on the list btw so I'm going to stop mentioning it but I'm personally not interested to work on changes that haven't been discussed with the project
<jackpot51> Which list?
<seb128> the ones  I mentioned to you yesterday and earlier
<seb128> devel/desktop
<willcooke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
<willcooke> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
<Laney> Trevinho: I have to get a ruler and measure my screen?
<Trevinho> Laney: yep :-)
<Trevinho> Laney: but actually I'm mostly interested on what mutter / xrandr outputs
<Laney> Trevinho: k, what are the commands please?
<jackpot51> I subscribed seb128, I will wait for confirmation...
<seb128> jackpot51, great
<willcooke> kk, anymore for any more?
<seb128> not me
<Trevinho> Laney: xrandr --verbose (or without flag)
<willcooke> oki, I need to get on another meeting, so please carry on if needed
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 20 16:13:09 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-06-20-15.30.moin.txt
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24909161/
<Trevinho> As per mutter... Not sure there one, when in Wayland you need to use dbus, let me check
<gQuigs> willcooke: the torrent data is all public:  http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/  (don't use it for historical 12.04 vs 14.04.. I believe the records get reset when the server restarts)
<gQuigs> this data IMHO will give you the highest 32-but numbers of any data we have as 32 or 64 bit is an even choice on the releases.ubuntu.com site where you need to go to get torrents
<gQuigs> seb128: what kind of apps 32 retiring decisions are you looking for?
<gQuigs> 32-bit
<seb128> firefox
<seb128> chromium
<Trevinho> Laney: gdbus call --session --dest org.gnome.Mutter.DisplayConfig --object-path /org/gnome/Mutter/DisplayConfig --method org.gnome.Mutter.DisplayConfig.GetResources
<seb128> chrome
<Trevinho> (in wayland though)
<Laney> meh, I'd have to restart
<Trevinho> Laney: no it's fine...
<Trevinho> Laney: no worries, the real ones then :-D
<Trevinho> ruler handy is it too much? :)
<Trevinho> and your's is a 9360 or previous revision?
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<Laney> second
<Laney> I just pastebinned the xrandr ^
<gQuigs> seb128: Chrome ended support back in 2015 - https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/chromium-dev/FoE6sL-p6oU
<gQuigs> err.. I mean 2016
<seb128> gQuigs, did it actually do? we are still getting updates building for it
<oSoMoN> seb128, chrome discontinued 32 bit support, but chromium still builds fine
<gQuigs> ^^
<gQuigs> seb128: you can't download a 32-bit version of Google Chrome
<seb128> right, that I know in fact :p
<seb128> do you know about firefox?
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson would know
<Laney> Trevinho: 9343
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, I read that thanks...
<Laney> Trevinho: 29.3cm x 16.5cm
<gQuigs> seb128: haven't seen any plans to remove 32-bit linux builds..   On windows side they just dropped support for XP/Vista for their regular release (they have a LOT of 32-bit users still I think)
<seb128> gQuigs, k, thanks for the info
<gQuigs> seb128: there was this: "Ended Firefox Linux support for processors older than Pentium 4 and AMD Opteron" in Firefox 53 release notes..
<Trevinho> Laney: ok, thanks... your values are almost then...
<Trevinho> wondering why aren't in the new model I tested, while a reddit guy had the right ones
<Laney> could be 29.4 which is what it says
<Trevinho> yeah, still...
<jbicha> jackpot51: please also start an ubuntu-devel list discussion about GNOME Initial Setup / ubiquity oem-mode
<jbicha> ubuntu-devel is limited to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev so your posts will be moderated, but you can ping in #ubuntu-devel to get them through :|
<willcooke> thanks for the link gQuigs
<ryanleesipes> Hi folks!
<ryanleesipes> seb128: I've heard I need to talk to you or didrocks about theme support in Snaps
<willcooke> ryanleesipes, those guys are end-of-day now- but ask away and someone will get back to you
<willcooke> also: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/06/ubuntu-app-developer-blog-announcing-new-snap-desktop-launchers/
<willcooke> see if that helps ^
<seb128> ryanleesipes, hey, sorry i'm a bit busy away from the computer atm but I read backlog and reply later (or come a bit earlier tomorrow on the channel)
<Laney> good night
<willcooke> night all
<immu> lol
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-21
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<willcooke> (early) morning all
<flexiondotorg> Goog morning oSoMoN willcooke
<duflu> Morning willcooke. And flexiondotorg and oSoMoN
<flexiondotorg> Let's try Good morning :-)
<flexiondotorg> duflu o/
<willcooke> You're at it early as well flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> Heat
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> same
<willcooke> duflu, looks like PA got uploaded
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to setup in the garden today.
<duflu> willcooke: Yep, minutes ago. Hopefully will verify today
<duflu> Or tomorrow
<willcooke> woot, thanks a lot duflu
<duflu> I think I should wipe xenial and start fresh to be sure though
<Laney> moin
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are things today?
<willcooke> Happy summer solstice ubu-druids!
<seb128> oh right, already summer
<Laney> hey seb128, hey willcooke
<Laney> indeed, we're starting the journey to winter
<seb128> 31Â°C today
<seb128> looking forward winter
 * Laney saves that quote and sets a reminder for 6 months time
<Laney> :P
<willcooke> 26 weeks to Christmas
<Laney> willcooke: why were you on so early?!?!?!
<willcooke> Laney, up early, and out this afternoon so figured I'd get a march on email
 * duflu tilts head upside down
<willcooke> also it's nice and cool
<duflu> willcooke, happy winter solstice
<willcooke> duflu, :DD
<Laney> looks like ubuntu-devel has those duplicate emails too
<Laney> duflu: what's winter for you?
<willcooke> I'm going to check the moderation queue on desktop and see if anything got stuck that shouldnt have.  I dont have admin rights to devel though
<Laney> "17Â° today, time to get my ski suit out"
 * Laney does
<duflu> Laney: Winter is sprinting in Europe
<duflu> Doesn't happen otherwise
<duflu> Laney: OK 5 at night, 20 or less day
<willcooke> Laney, queue looks good on desktop - but will wait for a few new mails before declaring it working
<duflu> Heh. Why does a TV never look as good at home as it does in the store? Because the manufacturer's in-store demo videos use about 200MB per minute
<Laney> willcooke: did you pick action: hold?
<willcooke> Laney, yeah
<willcooke> I'll change it to "discard" once it's known working
<Laney> k cool
<Laney> I added one for devel too
<Trevinho> Oh happy summer guys
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<seb128> good morning Trevinho, how is Italy today?
<Trevinho> Hey Laney
<Laney> you good?
<Trevinho> seb128: morning.. It's good... well, I didn't sleep much, but normal...
 * Laney puts Ed Miliband on Radio 2 on
<seb128> Trevinho, went to some parties again? ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: no, I'm in the middle of nothing now... I had my "party" at my desk...
<seb128> coding party!
<Trevinho> And... I'm always procrastinating in getting a Nas. I've a raspberry doing something like that (file server and synching mostly), not not the fastest
<didrocks> back online!
<willcooke> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey didrocks, had a good trip?
<didrocks> seb128: excellent! thanks! however, seeing the condo being at 27Â°C even all shutters off for the past few days is scaring :p
<Laney> wb didrocks
<Laney> enjoy that!
<didrocks> ahah, "thanks", I guess?
<Laney> wish we had an outdoor pool here to go to
<didrocks> same
<seb128> didrocks, :-(
<didrocks> how are you guys?
<seb128> didrocks, good, it's still nice and fresh inside from the night here
<jbicha> didrocks: you asked on trello about installing spice-vdagent by default, I already filed MIR bug 1200296 :)
<ubot5`> bug 1200296 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "[MIR] spice-vdagent" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200296
<didrocks> jbicha: rocks! :-)
<didrocks> rox* even :p
<jbicha> do we want Desktop Bugs subscribed to it?
<didrocks> I didn't follow the latest discussions on team subscription there was with cyphermox
<didrocks> ok, reintroduction of ubuntu-session as default GNOME shell-based session done, seb128: you will likely have to binNEW ubuntu-session
<didrocks> seed updated
<didrocks> just need to refresh ubuntu-meta once everything is published
<didrocks> is it known s390x being broken?
<jbicha> didrocks: my question was more about whether Desktop or Server wanted to take responsibility for spice-vdagent
<didrocks> jbicha: do you mind asking the server team? (I doubt they want, but worth asking IMHO)
<didrocks> I guess by default, we would
<jbicha> I mentioned it to them once and of course, they were not that interested ;)
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> it gives more desktop-like feature than server AFAIK, so makes sense to be on us IMHO
<seb128> didrocks, k, I keep an eye on the NEW queue
<jbicha> slangasek was asking whether the Desktop Team should be listed as maintainer in d/control for libepc since we're listed as maintaining glom LP: #1698236
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1698236 in libepc (Ubuntu) "glom depends on libepc, removed from Debian" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698236
<seb128> why are we listed as maintainer of glom?
<seb128> that's in universe
<seb128> we should probably get our name off this one
<jbicha> that's basically what Laney said :)
<didrocks> xnox: any idea of the s390x FTBFS? like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.24.2-0ubuntu7/+build/12782884
<Laney> yes it is
<didrocks> (every packages fail the same way)
<Laney> not sure why a second opinion is needed
<xnox> didrocks, given we do not have firefox on s390x, i would not expect gjs (or what is it called) to be available and I would not expect gnome shell to build or work.
<Laney> xnox: look at the log
<xnox> hm, that is really really really weird
<didrocks> xnox: did you look at the bug? ;)
<didrocks> xnox: not only G-S, lightdm, gnome-sessionâ¦ I guess everything fails on that perl missing
<jbicha> ok, I'll just upload both with the generic Ubuntu Developers maintainer
<didrocks> libdpkg-perl is supposed to be in the sbuild chroot, isn't it?
<Laney> it gets removed at the top of the log
<jbicha> glom is reasonably well-maintained for a universe pkg so it shouldn't really be a problem
<didrocks> oh lovely
<seb128> jbicha, +1, I commented on the bug in case murray had some opinion/info about libepc and glom
<xnox> we are in a bad bad bad perl transition it seems.
<didrocks> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<didrocks>   build-essential* dpkg-dev* libdpkg-perl* perl*
<didrocks> -> sure sure, go ahead :)
<didrocks> and cross fingers :p
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> gcc I think?
<seb128> could be, I marked -changes as read this morning
<Laney> there was a perl upload too
<seb128> there was a stack of haskell uploads spamming the list
<seb128> I should put any email with haskell in the title -> /dev/null
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> oh correct, perl as well
<xnox> didrocks, Laney, from what i can tell perl:s390x built before perl:amd64 built. With :s390x already published, but not :amd64.
<seb128> right
<didrocks> lalala
<Laney>  perl-base | 5.24.1-3ubuntu1   | artful           | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, ppc64el, s390x
<Laney>  perl-base | 5.24.1-4ubuntu1   | artful-proposed  | s390x
<Laney> I'd wait until that looks better then retry
<xnox> yeap.
<didrocks> yes
<Laney> that's an unfortunate failure mode
<xnox> we really should not publish :arch packages before :all.....
<didrocks> anyway: $ watch -n 60 rmadison -s artful-proposed perl-base
<didrocks> thanks for your insights guys!
<Laney> (H)
<jbicha> seb128: he just did a new libepc release this week :) but he said he might just roll libepc into glom directly
<seb128> sounds like a good idea if nothing else is using it
<xnox> Laney, hm, a simplier solution is to make perl-modules-5.24 be architecture specific package, instead of an arch:all package.
<didrocks> seb128: just mentioning it's ready: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=gnome-session
<seb128> didrocks, k
<didrocks> never have been about those workaround (tweaking packages to arch: any)
<seb128> didrocks, ubuntu-session NEWed
<didrocks> seb128: \o/ thanks
<seb128> didrocks, yw!
<didrocks> seb128: oh, you did NEW it in main btw?
<didrocks> (as it's going to be the default session)
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> perfect!
<seb128> :-)
<andyrock> late good morning all!
<didrocks> weird:
<didrocks>  unity-session | 3.24.1-0ubuntu3 | artful/universe | all
<didrocks>  unity-session | 3.24.1-0ubuntu4 | artful-proposed | all
 * didrocks demotes in proposed again
<jdstrand> jamesh: hey, fyi, just wanted to let you know that I saw the portals questions before. there are a few critical items I am working on before I can get to it
<cyphermox> willcooke: jbicha: I'd like to express concerns about the MIR requests. for instance, spice-vdagent is cool and all, but at some point, is it really required on the livecd? and if not, then why does it need to be in main and supported by Canonical?
<cyphermox> you obviously get to make the decision, but spice-vdagent doesn't scream to me like something that is a showcase of Ubuntu for a desktop that must be on a live image.
<Laney> Why did someone retry clutter-1.0/s390x when it had failed earlier today already?
<Laney> I retried it this morning.
<flexiondotorg> Afternoon desktopers
<oSoMoN> afternoon flexiondotorg
<kenvandine> howdy
<flexiondotorg> oSoMoN kenvandine o/
<flexiondotorg> My phone picked up a broadcast warning about severe weather tomorrow. Thunder storms.
<flexiondotorg> I for one welcome the rain.
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg kenvandine
<flexiondotorg> Hi seb128
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, main is not only about the iso, it's also about the default install and system you get to use after install
<cyphermox> that default install and system you get after the install is coming straight from the squashfs on the iso :)
<cyphermox> the most important question is "should Canonical support it?"
<cyphermox> but regardless, packages are installable from the archive, that's what I mean. does it need to be installed by default?
<cyphermox> I'm just expressing a question as to that particular instance, because it seems odd to me.
<cyphermox> I understand rhythmbox, gnome-software, etc.; seems like spice-vdagent is only useful in a fraction of cases, or when other software (that isn't installed by default) is present.\
<cyphermox> you can still always install things from the archive, even if they aren't in main
<cyphermox> if you tell me "yes, we really do want that installed by default", then there is no problem at all, I'm just questioning to make sure the requests are acknowledged.
<seb128> cyphermox, right, I understand why you ask. I don't know about that specific package but Didier mentioned that it makes Ubuntu works better in some VMs setups, so it gives a better "out of the box" experience to people trying the distro this way I guess
<seb128> also yeah you can always install things
<didrocks> basically without it, you have in a vm:
<seb128> but it's nicer when things are great out of the box
<didrocks> - no copy/paste
<didrocks> - no screen scaling (so you are stuck in 800x600)
<cyphermox> that's fair
<didrocks> - mouse is grabbed by the vm
<Laney> maybe make virt-manager recommend it?
<Laney> or spiceclient or whatever it is
<cyphermox> Laney: no, it's an agent for the guest.
<didrocks> I don't think it's a good first time user-experience
<seb128> didrocks, depends of the vm I guess? I've those working in virtualbox
<Laney> oh, inside the VM, I see
<cyphermox> I understand it better now, thanks guys
<didrocks> seb128: you install additional tools :)
<didrocks> yw cyphermox ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, yw!
<didrocks> Laney: yes, client only
<seb128> didrocks, anyway I agree with you in any case (on the usefulness, I did look at the code to see if it's buggy or not and how maintainable it is)
<didrocks> I don't remember the vbox name, it's like "extra tools" or something you trigger in the menu
<seb128> didn't*
<didrocks> same
<didrocks> I just put it as a trello card to remember someone needs to look at it MIR-wise
<didrocks> jbicha just went ahead and filed the Mir :)
<didrocks> knowing it's installed by default on fedora, I think it's interesting to look at it at least
 * cyphermox wonders if it shouldn't be installed as a driver based on some heuristic rather than everywhere by default
<didrocks> cyphermox: vms without network? (I'm thinking about the live session experience)
<Laney> you can have things in the pool on the CD
<didrocks> yeah, true
<cyphermox> didrocks: well, I guess I mean in live rather than install
<Laney> or live then removed
<cyphermox> ^that
<didrocks> I wouldn't remove it after your vm install, but yeah, more smartness on ubiquity could hep
 * cyphermox has been looking into just that for ubiquity not being removed right now
<didrocks> help*
<didrocks> like "live + if not running in vm, remove"
<cyphermox> it basically works like; if it's in live and not manually installed too, then it gets removed
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh, you are looking into ubiquity not being removed? Nice! (noticed and filed a bug about it)
<cyphermox> yeah, I saw your bug
<didrocks> ;)
<cyphermox> working on reproducing the livefs build here to investigate
<didrocks> Laney: some autopkgtests question for you: so update-notifier tests triggered by G-S are failing due to new pep8. I fixed update-notifier and thought "let's click on the refresh/retry button"
<didrocks> but it seems it's running still against the older update-notifier version if I'm correct (I guess the one in the release pocket): https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/update-notifier/artful/s390x
<didrocks> we need to wait for it to migrate, correct?
<didrocks> no way to speed it up by retrying against the one in -proposed?
<Laney> pep8 autopkgtests are really hateful
<didrocks> +1
<Laney> yes you can add extra &trigger=pkg/version to pick things up from proposed
<didrocks> that will override and be picked by proposed-migration then?
<Laney> but then nothing enforces those things go in together so I prefer that you don't do that in general
<Laney> yes
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> now that I fixed the pep8 tests, can we hint it?
<didrocks> note that there is no hurry
<didrocks> if I refresh the ubuntu-meta package tomorrow only, that's fine
<didrocks> (and +1, I don't see any rationale of linter tools to be autopkgtests, they should just be unit tests at package build-time)
<Laney> do the retry with extra trigger, shouldn't be too long until it gets done
<Laney> you can refresh seeds from proposed if you hack the update.cfg btw
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, not really legit, but why not :)
<Laney> after dist: artful add dists: artful artful-proposed
<Laney> IIRC
<didrocks> I did something like that for ppas
<Laney> then delete it before uploading and nobody will ever know :-)
<seb128> k, time for some exercice, hope it's not too warm with the bit of wind outside
<didrocks> seb128: good luck!
<didrocks> and yes, that should work, because ubuntu-meta will be blocked in proposed as it should remove gnome-session
<didrocks> so until lightdm and g-s migrates to drop that need for gnome-session, all 3 will be copied in sync
<didrocks> so, should be fine :)
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> configparser.NoSectionError: No section: 'artful artful-proposed'
<didrocks> failed ;)
 * didrocks tries comma
<didrocks> ok, let's open configparser.py :p
<didrocks> ah, seed_dist: ubuntu.%(dist)s
<didrocks> yeah, so basing on this
<Laney> you used dists?
<didrocks> nope
<didrocks> it's below in the config
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> dist*s*
<flexiondotorg> didrocks I know you're all very busy. But... ;-)
<didrocks> it's weird, you need dists AND dist
<didrocks> Laney: seems to work :)
<flexiondotorg> I've got a couple of new packages I'd really love to see in the 17.10 in time for Alpha 1.
<Laney> good
<didrocks> I see some -proposed in the tarball being downloaded :)
<Laney> I've used it once or twice myself before
<flexiondotorg> Could you take a look?
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: unsure I'll have time today, could do tomorrow morning
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1699333
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1699333 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1699334
<didrocks> Laney: thanks!
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1699334 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel-appmenu" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<flexiondotorg> didrocks Understood.
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: just update and ping on #ubuntu-release
<flexiondotorg> didrocks Just update?
<didrocks> hum Added ubuntu-session to desktop
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: sorry, too many conversations, "just ping" :p
<didrocks> ok, sounds like gnome-session isn't removed, as I expected
<flexiondotorg> Wilco. Thanks.
<didrocks> ah no, that's fine and expected, gnome-session was never a direct dep
<didrocks> Laney: on g-s autopkgtests, should I retrigger manually once update-notifier is published in the release pocket or is that automagic?
<Laney> no it won't happen automatically
<didrocks> ok
<andyrock> mpt:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9zy1yE1u/Screenshot%20from%202017-06-21%2017-39-28.png
<andyrock> Before I keep working on this, do you agree (more or less ;) ) on the design?
<andyrock> or this is completely broken?
<mpt> andyrock, thatâs â¦ interesting. Iâm not sure what itâs showing. What would happen if I unchecked one of the checkboxes?
<andyrock> you can't uncheck the checkboxes
<mpt> Ever?
<andyrock> it's showing the patches applied by canonical-livepatch
<mpt> andyrock, could I check the one thatâs unchecked?
<andyrock> neither
<andyrock> it can happen that a patch should be applied but for some reason it's not
<andyrock> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/10/canonical-livepatch.html
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/hTfuwD8l/
<mpt> andyrock, ok, so if you canât check them, and you canât uncheck them, they probably shouldnât be checkboxes :-)
<andyrock> so what instead of checkboxes?
<andyrock> :D
<mpt> Well, *if* this list was appropriate, we should probably show installed status using some kind of checkmark graphic that was clearly different from a checkbox (like Dropbox does for sync status, for example)
<andyrock> makes sense
<andyrock> what else?
<andyrock> and thanks!
<mpt> andyrock, how far back does the list go? Is it patches applied in the past day? The past week? The past month? Since the last time update-manager opened?
<andyrock> I'll just show what caonical-livepatch status gives me
<andyrock> so basically once you restart (likely with the new kernel)
<andyrock> the list will be empty
<andyrock> if you don't restart the list will get bigger
<mpt> understood
<mpt> Ok, Iâll think about this overnight â¦ Possibly we could integrate that list into the usual list of updates
<gQuigs> andyrock: would that bigger list be hidden by default, behind something like Livepatch: Protected
<gQuigs> > click for details
<mpt> And the string âLivePatch statusâ could be something more informative, like âLivepatch has installed 4 updates since you last restartedâ
<mpt> Anyway, ttyl
<willcooke> ar'noon
 * willcooke back
 * Laney nods willcooke 
<kenvandine> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<willcooke> TOOOOOOO hot
<willcooke> :(
<Laney> laters
<andyrock> gQuigs: sorry I missed the ping
<andyrock> yeah it's hidden by default
<willcooke> night all
<kenvandine> i'm really missing the battery life of my ubuntu phone, these background services are such a drain
<kenvandine> my samsung was at 100% 6 hours ago... nearly dead now :(
<immu> hi any plans for incorporating Pipewire in Ubuntu?
<jbicha> immu: I believe it had its 0.1 release yesterday so I don't think we've had a chance to look at it yet
<immu> really, where can i have a look at it, it didn't make any noise yet
<immu> 17.10 is turning to be a big release jbicha :)
<immu> Pipewire is Fedora's pet project right?
<xnox> what is pipewire?
<xnox> i can't find any real website about it
<immu> you can read about it here https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2017/06/20/fedora-workstation-26-and-beyond/
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-22
<duflu> jbicha, I could not find the scrollback of when you mentioned it but is this sufficient?... https://git.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/bluez/commit/?h=artful&id=7c061d08e3eb1162b6c8113d92780b49ad1ff00f
<duflu> Or was it someone else?..
<jbicha> duflu: that's fine but could you use https for both vcs lines to avoid lintian warning vcs-field-uses-insecure-uri
<duflu> jbicha: Sure, I was wondering why people do that
<jbicha> it's perhaps a subtle way to encourage us all to switch to git since some vcs can't use https :(
<duflu> jbicha: Not a problem. We might want to do another "no change" release though to update those fields in the archive. Maybe
<smacz[m]> hello all, looking at the kernel that's installed on the desktop, it's 4.4.0-47-generic. IIRC I'm looking for 4.4.0-81 to patch the stack clash vuln. But apt list --upgradable doesn't show any kernels. What am I missing?
<smacz[m]> linux-image-virtual gave me what I needed.
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<flexiondotorg> didrocks duflu Morning
<duflu> Hi flexiondotorg
<didrocks> hey flexiondotorg, duflu!
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: you got your vala packages NEWed, nice!
<flexiondotorg> It's is cloudy and cool this morning :-)
<flexiondotorg> didrocks Oooh. Really? I'll go and check.
<didrocks> it's going to be 37Â°C today
<didrocks> already 27Â°C (inside and outside, couldn't get cooler)
<flexiondotorg> didrocks Where are you seeing those packages? Bugs unchanged and they are not in the artful new queue.
<flexiondotorg> didrocks Heck 37Â°C!
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: well, they are not in the new queue, so I thought they got acked, correct?
<flexiondotorg> oSoMoN Morning
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: you didn't update them?
<didrocks> upload*
<oSoMoN> hey flexiondotorg, duflu, didrocks!
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
 * duflu just realized...
<flexiondotorg> didrocks I just filed the bugs and provided build in the PPA.
<didrocks> ah, you don't have upload rights at all?
<flexiondotorg> I only have upload right for packages in the Ubuntu MATE package set.
 * duflu wonders why Phoenix airport wasn't allowed to fly Airbus and Boeings in heat but Dubai does so normally in even greater heat (mid-50s)
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> and so, they are not in the set yet
<flexiondotorg> Correct.
<didrocks> ok, will have a look at them today/tomorrow thus (as I guess it's too late for alpha)
<flexiondotorg> Once these first upload to the archive exist I will request PPU for them.
<didrocks> yep :)
<flexiondotorg> didrocks Thanks. These package unlock new features in Ubuntu MATE 17.10. I really want to get some good testing feedback early :-)
<didrocks> sure!
<flexiondotorg> duflu I used to in aviation and the company I worked for had an office at Phoenix airport.
<flexiondotorg> As I remember it, some of the smaller jets operating limits are exceeded in the summer months. But most modern Boeings and Airbus have far higher tolerances and can continue to operate.
<flexiondotorg> If Airbus and Boeing are grounded it must be extremely hot there.
<duflu> flexiondotorg, might also just mean a higher minimum length runway in heat
<duflu> flexiondotorg: * shrug* It's old news and probably not true any more. As far as I can see it's winter here :)
<andyrock> morning!
<duflu> Hello andyrock
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<andyrock> does anyone know if there is a public CVE search API?
<oSoMoN> hey andyrock
<willcooke> morning all!
<willcooke> Normality returns - it's raining \o/
<Laney> morning!
<willcooke> hi Laney
<didrocks> hey willcooke, Laney
<didrocks> lucky you
<willcooke> still hot didrocks?
<Laney> hey willcooke & didrocks
<didrocks> willcooke: 36Â°c planned today
<didrocks> it's already 27.4 inside
<willcooke> didrocks, :((
<Laney> any library or place with AC to work from?
<didrocks> it's quite annoying for us, but I feel even worse for the little one
<didrocks> Laney: I'm afraid that libraries will be crowded though
<didrocks> may go to the departmental archives
<didrocks> it's closer, I guess not as fancy for most of people
<Laney> that sounds like a serious place
<didrocks> yeah, it's more for people tracing old papers from the cities, births, and such
<didrocks> 10 minutes walk and not really central :)
<didrocks> the building is really fancy: http://numelyo.bm-lyon.fr/f_eserv/BML:BML_01ICO00101573f005f29475/preview_Source0.jpg
<Laney> scary
<Laney> I imagine the secret police working out of there
<seb128> good morning desktopers
 * seb128 tries another coworking space
<seb128> also airco, nice to not be in a 30Â°C room to work
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> though there was so commute and train didn't have wifi
<Laney> you good?
<seb128> yeah!
<Laney> where's this one?
<seb128> you?
<seb128> in Rotterdam
<Laney> yeah good, it's not going to get over 20 here today
<seb128> short walk from the train station
 * Laney is O. K. ! with that
<seb128> haha
<Laney> nice
<Laney> you commuter
<Laney> ah man, I was trying to use the barrier to raise the launcher :'(
<didrocks> :)
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128: A bit unwell. But thanks for asking. Most of the day is done. You?
<seb128> I didn't get enough sleep and didn't sleep well then due to the heat, but good otherwise
<seb128> duflu, I hope you get better, you should call it a day and get some rest
<duflu> seb128, I will think about it after verifying this SRI
<duflu> STU
<duflu> SRU
<duflu> jeez
<didrocks> ah, time to demote gnome-session! g-s finally published few minutes ago!
<didrocks> (only the binary package, not the source one, don't be scaredâ¦ it's going to be alright)
<seb128> didrocks, things are going nicely it seems :-)
<didrocks> yeah, I wonder if our archive doesn't feel Lyon's heat though seeing the autopkgtests queue on i386
<didrocks> testing today's iso, which has both session, but ubuntu-session should be default
<didrocks> tomorrow's iso won't have gnome-session installed
<didrocks> (will test today's iso later)
<seb128> I should do that as well
<Laney> so much perl
<duflu> Laney: Here's a better answer to your question from yesterday :)  http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/forecasts/perth.shtml
<Laney> duflu: I'll take that as winter
<jibel> didrocks, on today's iso, I've gnome gnome on wayland, ubuntu, ubuntu on wayland and ubuntu is the default
<duflu> Sounds like no session should be called "Ubuntu"
<duflu> because they are all Ubuntu
<willcooke> jibel, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Html2Wiki
<willcooke> jibel, export from GDocs as HTML and then convert
<willcooke> jibel, that said - the LibreOffice route is probably just as good/bad
<jibel> willcooke, thanks, I'll try that if it's better than odt -> wiki
<willcooke> heh, we'll see
<seb128> do we have artful images to use for autopkgtest-buildvm?
<seb128> on artful it tells me it's falling back to downloading a zesty one
<Laney> https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/artful/current/
<Laney> yup
<seb128> thanks, wonder why it doesn't find it
<seb128> I should probably try the lxd way while I'm at it
<Laney> what does it say?
<Laney> what if you pass -r artful?
<seb128> it says "cannot determine development release, failing back to latest stable"
<seb128> -r artful seems to download the right thing
<Laney> guessing distro-info -d doesn't work then
<Laney> is your distro-info-data current?
<seb128> that vm might be in a mixed state
<seb128> so I guess that's it
<Laney> that's what it's using
<seb128> thanks Laney
<Laney> yw!
<Laney> ah, that notification worked
 * Laney has an appointment in 1 hour ;-)
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> lunch is meeting you!
<Laney> physio
<Laney> then lunch
<seb128> still your shoulder?
<seb128> how did climbing go yesterday btw?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> it's progressing
<Laney> FFS
<Laney> it was too hot for that
<seb128> don't tell me, I played tennis for 1h30 hour in the sun at 5pm
<seb128> was not the best idea
<Laney> some of the holds were sliimmyyyy
<seb128> I couldn't stand in the evening :p
<Laney> just did some easy stuff then some exercises then came home for a bbq
<Laney> heh
<Laney> hope you stayed hydrated
<seb128> I tried my best
<seb128> I didn't have any headache or such so it was ok I think
<Laney> nice
<Laney> oh, I worked out what causes this gnome-software crash
<Laney> it seemed random but it's when you search in the shell overview
<Laney> phew
<seb128> thanks for reminding me about gnome-software
<Laney> oh yeah the xenial test
 * Laney is reminded too
<seb128> I need to try again that "clicking on install does nothing" I had with robert's update
<seb128> see if I have the same issue with the archive version
<seb128> and report it
 * Laney is trying master
<seb128> bah
<seb128> works with the archive version
<seb128> so regression and not local issue I guess
<Laney> back in a bit
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, after (too) much bisecting and testing, Iâve come to the conclusion that bug #1696965 started happening when swiftshader was turned on in the builds, and that google chrome is in fact also affected (although the symptoms manifest themselves less often)
<ubot5`> bug 1696965 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "First renderer process doesn't render page for chromium 59.0.3071.86 in KVM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696965
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, given this, Iâm tempted to say this should not block us from publishing 59 to users
<oSoMoN> what do you think?
<oSoMoN> I've requested a source copy of 59.0.3071.109 to ppa:canonical-chromium-builds/stage
<willcooke> Did we ever have conversations about Nvidia & Wayland on the trello board?  I can't find the card, but I'm sure we did.  About not runing Wayland if you've got an nvidia card.
<willcooke> Might have been email
<seb128> willcooke, https://trello.com/c/7jWI9yjo/136-make-a-decision-about-wayland ?
<willcooke> seb128, thats the one!  I wonder why my search on wayland didnt work.  meh.   thanks1
<seb128> yw
<seb128> btw is there a way to tell trello to restrict the search to the current board?
<willcooke> I just ctrl-f and search from the browser
<willcooke> but that doesn't seem to work very well
<GunnarHj> seb128: Is it time to unhide translations for artful and make artful the translation focus?
<seb128> GunnarHj, did you see the emails you received?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes.
<seb128> what do you mean by "unhide"?
<seb128> the focus I'm not sure yet, you are probably more familiar with that
<seb128> I though we usually waited a bit more in the cycle so translators don't waste efforts on strings that are still changing?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Re unhide: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/+translations-admin
<seb128> GunnarHj, that's somewhat related to the previous question I guess
<GunnarHj> seb128: The timing is a trade-off, of course. OTOH it's probably a greater risk that translators waste time if the keep translating zesty.
<seb128> my understanding is that we want to have the upstream translations in an export at least
<seb128> GunnarHj, well, zesty is stale, translations are not waster, they are for the next langpack SRU
<seb128> stale->stable
<seb128> where translating strings that change means the translation is going to use for noone
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, let's await the upstream translation exports. But as regards SRUs, we haven't done those for non-LTS release lately.
<seb128> because we believe those are not useful?
<seb128> or just by lack of manpower to drive the process?
<GunnarHj> seb128: The latter. After all, they  only live for 9 months.
<seb128> well translations are often not waster
<seb128> wasted
<seb128> they "live" in other series/longer most of the time
<seb128> but one problem at the time
<seb128> I'm fine unhidding translations if you think that's the right moment
<seb128> can the focus be put on any serie?
<seb128> we should maybe put it on the LTS?
<GunnarHj> seb128: My belief is that the translators are generally aware of the fact that the strings are not frozen. So unhiding it early gives them the option to start working early - risking that they need to redo some translations - or wait until the string freezes.
<seb128> the active translators are, non technical contributors or those who just want to translate some strings to help Ubuntu are not always, from what I saw in the french community
<GunnarHj> seb128: The focus can be set to any series. AFAIK it has always been the dev release.
<seb128> k
<seb128> I though we used to switch focus to dev around beta
<seb128> you are sure it has always been on dev all the time?
<GunnarHj> seb128: 98,7% :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> so now it's not on zesty (stable)?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes it is, since nobody has changed it yet. That's the reason for that part of the question.
<seb128> k, so it's not *always* on dev :p
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, true. ;)
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> I think we can unhide translations
<GunnarHj> seb128: Waiting til beta may be reasonable. I have no strong opinion.
<seb128> and I'm going to trigger a first langpack export
<seb128> let's see if things work
<seb128> and then re-discuss the focus serie? (like next week)
<seb128> how does that work for you?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Just unhidden artful. Sounds good to me.
<seb128> great
<seb128> thanks GunnarHj
<seb128> I try to get the export done tomorrow
<seb128> well the langpack build I mean
<Laney> willcooke: seb128: My understanding is that it does do that already
<Laney> You have to set some options and update the initramfs to make it an option
<seb128> I lost context since
<seb128> Laney, what are you commenting about?
<Laney> nvidia
<seb128> oh
<Laney> :)
<Laney> survived the physio btw
<Laney> I'm mostly discharged now
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> she told me to go climb more
<Laney> and only come back if there is a problem
<didrocks> sounds like advice going in your way ;)
<Laney> yeah I just have to get over the anxiety while climbing
<Laney> about re injuring it
<seb128> so yeah, autopkgtest in lxc is nice, but n-m needs machine-isolation so that's not good enough
<seb128> bah
<seb128> is there a way to throw a package to some infra bit (ppa?) and have autopkgtest tried against it?
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/#Testing_against_a_PPA
<Laney> virt-qemu doesn't work?
<cpaelzer> I usually use Bileto tickets which kind of wrap all that up (ppa + tests) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bileto
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> I don't actually know how to trigger britney runs from bileto
<Laney> just happens when you change the status?
<cpaelzer> Laney: yeah when you are happy with your tests and the buld you switch to approved and then it kicks britney
<cpaelzer> output is then linked from the ticket and looks like an upodate_excuses snippet
<cpaelzer> with working retry links if needed
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, bug reported upstream: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=735947
<cpaelzer> and since it does all arch and all dependent jsut as migration would I kind of take it as one-shot-for-all
<willcooke> jibel, cyphermox has a Cisco VPN device!  \o/
<willcooke> cyphermox, re: n-m pending - would you have any time to look at it this week?
<seb128> cyphermox, sorry my wifi had issues in that hangout, do you know if ^?
<cyphermox> yes, I'm running the autopkgtest right now
<willcooke> cyphermox, \o/ thanks!
<cyphermox> clearly something in NM changed though, I'm not happy
<seb128> cyphermox, just curious, how do you run those?
<seb128> I tried in a vm and in autopkgtest lxc but without much luck
<cyphermox> right now, autopkgtest -U --apt-pocket=proposed -s . -- qemu ~u/adt-artful-amd64-cloud.img
<seb128> Laney, sorry I didn't see your reply earlier, thanks
<seb128> ok
<seb128> you need the qemu image
<cyphermox> (so technically, it'll rebuild nplan, but heh)
<seb128> which I was trying to avoid, it's slow to set up
<cyphermox> bah, it should work in LXC too
<Laney> someone's been happy on the retry button http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/n/nplan/artful/amd64
<Laney> ...
<seb128> I did one by error earlier, sorry
<seb128> firefox awesome bar fail
<seb128> I wanted the log page and I hit the retry page
<seb128> which just retried on opening without asking any confirmation
<jbicha> I did like 8 earlier, sorry
<seb128> haha
<Laney> :/
<seb128> jbicha, it's obvious there is an issue with at least the mtu
<seb128> retries are not going to work
<Laney> it's not that helpful when the queue is so large to run several 45 minute tests
<Laney> oh well :-)
<Laney> machines don't hold a grudge
<jbicha> right, we were caught up briefly before the perl upload
<Laney> I might kill the seb128 one in the queue though ;-)
<seb128> yes please do
<cyphermox> no point in making many retries ever though, if it times out the first 2 (and about as many tests/the same tests), something's off enough that it won't be different.
<Laney> 2017-06-22 13:54:30,557 - queue item: b'nplan {"requester": "seb128", "triggers": ["nplan/0.24"]}' (deleting)
<seb128> as said it was an url error
<seb128> thanks
<cyphermox> and indeed the mtu issue seems like a genuine regression
<willcooke> cyphermox, how are you testing mtus out of interest?  Pings of different sizes?
<cyphermox> no, that's not necessary
<cyphermox> netplan write a config that NM needs to apply; so after NM has stabilized we check that the kernel reports the right MTU
<cyphermox> if the kernel lies, it's a kernel bug, not a netplan bug
<willcooke> I see, thx
<seb128> cyphermox, where is the config written?
<seb128> wiki/google are not that useful at telling you that
<cyphermox> /run/NetworkManager
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I guess my config snippet was invalid since that's empty :p
<seb128> cyphermox, should a config like http://paste.ubuntu.com/24925093/ work and result in some n-m config generated?
<seb128> anyway wasted enough time today trying to get that working, I let you debug it, just curious at this point
<willcooke> desktoppers - I've added a new tag to Trello called "GUADEC Topic" - please tag anything which needs to be talked about so we dont forget anything
<seb128> willdo
<kenvandine> willcooke, great
<oSoMoN> ack
<seb128> Laney proved that trello needs a "like" button ;-)
<Laney> +1
<Laney> :thumbsup:
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> showing the love to Didier's cards :-)
<cyphermox> seb128: MTU is special in that so far we've been relying on systemd to apply the change (via udev) rather than NM, so it might not write anything in this case
<seb128> cyphermox, oh ok, good to know
<seb128> cyphermox, let me know when you figure out what's the issue, I'm curious now
<seb128> just not familiar enough with netplan to be efficient debugging it
<jibel> seb128, there is a 'voting' power-up
<seb128> jibel, ah :-)
<Laney> ah man, lots of those powerups look like they could be useful but you can only have 1 per time on the free tier
<Laney> s/per/at a/
<Laney> jbicha: did you look at graphene ftbfsing yet?
<jbicha> Laney: not much yet, but I blame meson
<Laney> when you see gtkdoc stuff failing to build, you can't help but get a little bit sad
<Laney> hmm the last pass was with meson 0.40.1-1 though
<jbicha> meson 0.41 broke some stuff (budgie-desktop still doesn't build) so that's why it's my first guess
<Laney> autopkgtest is quite useful to test this kind of thing
 * Laney adds --apt-pocket=proposed=src:meson
<jbicha> add that where?
<Laney> autopkgtest
<Laney> yeah it's totally meson
<Laney> JUSSIIIII
<jbicha> if you want him to hear you, you could try #mesonbuild ;)
<Laney> it's ok, I know how to find him
<Laney> I have a big light that shines into the sky
<Laney> (master works)
<jbicha> graphene master?
<Laney> meson
<seb128> going back home, might be back online from the train if they have wifi
<seb128> if not have a nice evening desktopers
<willcooke> cya seb128
<seb128> bye :-)
<Laney> jbicha: going to upload the cherry-pick that fixes it, feel free to sync over with the next release
<jbicha> thanks!
<Laney> committed 6 hours ago
<Laney> timely
<jbicha> Laney: if you didn't upload yet, maybe it wouldn't hurt to cherry-pick https://github.com/mesonbuild/meson/commit/185808b too
<jbicha> that one wasn't enough for budgie-desktop but it got the build further along
<Laney> I already did it
<Laney> it's really trivial to try meson from git btw
<Laney> uninstall the distro package and symlink /usr/bin/meson to meson.py
<Laney> so you can see if it's fixed in master
<seb128> the train has wifi it seems!
<Laney> wifi in de trein?
<willcooke> night all
<Laney> bye!
<kenvandine> jbicha, flexiondotorg is trying to see what happens in MATE with gdm and is finding it's not working
<kenvandine> jbicha, the service is starting but nothing on the vt
<kenvandine> wondering if it could be bug 1632322
<ubot5`> bug 1559576 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1632322 Ubuntu GNOME boots to black screen when using proprietary Nvidia drivers" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1559576
<kenvandine> he's in virtualbox
<jbicha> what version?
<jbicha> and does he just see nothing on the log in screen or is that after he enters his password?
<oSoMoN> good evening everyone!
<kenvandine> jbicha, black screen
<jbicha> it sounds like you are saying he can't reach the log in screen
<jbicha> there's a bug with VirtualBox sometimes where it doesn't show gdm's log in screen, if you resize the window it may sort of show up
<jbicha> but if he can log in "blind", that should work too
<jbicha> once logged in, the display should work normally
<flexiondotorg> jbicha OK, I'll imagine I can see a log in screen :-)
<flexiondotorg> Or I just use qemu?
<flexiondotorg> Which is typically what I use but I had a gash VM in virtualbox.
<jbicha> if that is the issue you are experiencing, I'm hoping that the issue will be fixed when the VirtualBox drivers are upstreamed
<jbicha> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=VirtualBox-vboxvideo-Plans
<kenvandine> flexiondotorg, so did resizing fix it?
<kenvandine> if so... that was silly :)
<flexiondotorg> I just have a tty telling me /dev/sda is clean.
<flexiondotorg> I tried resizing the VM window. No change.
<kenvandine> ok
<flexiondotorg> I'm off to cook for my girls.
<kenvandine> flexiondotorg, good night!
<flexiondotorg> I'll be back later.
<cyphermox> jbicha: I'm reluctant to change netplan for the NM 1.8 upload; it's starting to look a lot like NM regressed
<cyphermox> I haven't dug into NM at all yet, but from the look of the netplan autopkgtests, it's as if NM is managing devices when it really shouldn't be
<cyphermox> (if I stop NM altogether and rig the intergration tests from netplan to ignore it, the tests pass, and don't time out)
<jbicha> cyphermox: I don't think I know enough about NM or netplan to be much help
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-23
<BillGHero> Hello. I am here because I have been trying to troubleshoot a scanning  (sane) problem on my Ubuntu 16.04 install
<BillGHero> I tried the sane channel, but not a single user out of the other 24 so much as hiccuped for over an hour. :-S
<sarnold> that's irc for ya
<sarnold> people tend to reply only on specific questions
<BillGHero> Yes, but not on the sane channel tonight.
<BillGHero> I have a brother MFC that has always worked with the vendor drivers for scanning over the network in older versions of ubuntu, but cannot get it working with 16.04. Printing works ok.
<BillGHero> Anybody know how best to proceed to troubleshot this on Ubuntu 16.04? Because all the standard answers I found do not help.
<BillGHero> Or, if someone knows where they posted the desing docs for Ubuntu 16.04, that would work too...
<BillGHero> * "design docs"
<sarnold> do you get any error messages when you try to use it? does anything show up in the logs? dmesg output?
<BillGHero> Not sure how to get the dmesg output.
<BillGHero> Scanner utilities cannot see the scanner, even though the brother utility does.
<sarnold> dmesg gives you dmesg output :)
<BillGHero> Ok, ran "sudo dmesg -wH" and then ran xsane. No messages showed up, xsane just complained that it couldn't find any scanners.
<BillGHero> Clarification: There is output from the dmesg, jsut nothing new for the xsane program.
<sarnold> if you unplug and replug the scanner do you get anything?
<BillGHero> Unplug? My scanner is on my network.
<sarnold> aha
<sarnold> can you ping it?
<sarnold> does it have a web interface? (some networked devices have simple web servers)
<BillGHero> I can print to it. Let me  make sure it will ping tho...
<BillGHero> Yep, 0 packet loss.
<sarnold> alright good news there; if you stick the IP in a browser do you get a web interface of some sort?
<BillGHero> Nope, but I would never get one anyways. This printer does not provide such.
<sarnold> bummer :/ maybe nmap it and hope they stuffed one on another port?
<BillGHero> It worked fine for scanning with the Brother .deb packages on Ubuntu 14, so I am damn near 100% sure that it is an issue with Ubuntu 16.04.
<BillGHero> I am using same network, same computer, same multifunction printer/scanner. Just newer Ubuntu.
<BillGHero> The brother .deb package provides the sane backend.
<BillGHero> I THINK the sane daemon is running, based on the previous two hours of troubleshooting. But, I do not know for sure if it is configured corectly.
<sarnold> hrm the brscan4 package at least does different things based on install order. that's a bit confusing.
<sarnold> try uninstalling and reinstalling the brscan package
<BillGHero> It's brscan3 for this case, just in case it matters.
<sarnold> aha i'll give that a look too
<sarnold> give the uninstall/reinstall a shot while I download and unpack it
<BillGHero> Mine's a Brother MFC-6490CW
<sarnold> same style of operation that only does things at install time if a file exists.
<BillGHero> True, but also has a step for each package to check to see if the isntall command worked.
<BillGHero> Ok, removed and re-installed. Checked and bothe the 'driver' and the brsaneconfig-uration shows good.
<BillGHero> xsane still doesn't see the scanner. Only error is something about an invalid string constant "task-buttons"
<BillGHero> Probably un-related.
<sarnold> the postinst script looks for /usr/lib/sane before performing a bunch of operations; that might have existed in earlier releases, might not, but I don't see it in 16.04 LTS.
<sarnold> so lets just try running those operations by hand :)
<BillGHero> You mean running xsane from the command line?
<sarnold> here's the commands the package's postinst script runs if that directory exists; try running these commands (as root) and then try again http://paste.ubuntu.com/24930210/
<BillGHero> Aha, I think you are on to something
<BillGHero> there is no /usr/lib/sane/
<BillGHero> And no error message from the instalation either..
<BillGHero> It worked!
<BillGHero> Thank you so much!
<sarnold> sweet :)
<BillGHero> But, how did you know that those links were not there?
<sarnold> I'm not even sure the links need to be created by hand like that. It's been years since I've really done library things by hand but I thoguht ldconfig was supposed to create those, and I thought dpkg just did that these days.
<sarnold> so the links may or may not have been related
<sarnold> it might have been running the /usr/local/Brother/sane/setupSaneScan3 -i command which unlocked it. I'm not sure which :)
<BillGHero> Still, thanks :)
<sarnold> you're welcome, I'm glad it works :)
<didrocks> good morning
<flocculant> morning didrocks :)
<didrocks> hey flocculant!
<flocculant> how's things?
<didrocks> good, thanks, but really warm here. Still a couple of days before it gets bearable :)
<didrocks> you?
<flocculant> yea all good here thanks - I think we've likely had our summer now :p
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Good afternoon oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> happy Friday willcooke (and soon Laney ;))
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> didrocks, any cooler today?
<Laney> HEY!
<didrocks> willcooke: already 28Â°C insideâ¦ should be 2Â° degrees less (like 34 outside)
<willcooke> ooof
<duflu> Excellent. I mistook "clearvideo" for "clear video"
<duflu> They are unrelated technologies
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney duflu
<seb128> how is everyone today?
<willcooke> morning seb128
<duflu> Hey seb128, willcooke, Laney, didrocks
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<didrocks> hey duflu
<didrocks> gnome-session removed isn't on the iso as planned, great :)
 * seb128 downloads the daily for a test install
<seb128> going to dual boot my laptop xenial i386/artful amd64
<Laney> hey seb128 hey duflu hey didrocks
<Laney> OMG
<Laney> seb128 running amd64?????
<duflu> Party like it's 1999
<Laney> I think Etch was the first Debian release to get amd64
<seb128> Laney, right, wth?
 * Laney wonders if Ubuntu had it first
<Laney> looks like even warty did http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/
<didrocks> the live was only i386 though, interesting :)
<Laney> sounds from the text at the top like most systems were x86 back then
<Laney> maybe almost no desktops were amd64 or something
<didrocks> I surely had a x86 laptop at the time
<oSoMoN> seb128, hey, IÂ updated my LO 5.3.3 snap at http://people.canonical.com/~osomon/libreoffice_5.3.3.2_amd64.snap , in case you haven't tried it yet
<seb128> oSoMoN, I didn't, thanks
<jibel> seb128, if you do a test installation can you confirm bug 1700030?
<ubot5`> bug 1700030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity still installed after installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700030
<seb128> sure
<didrocks> I confirmed
<didrocks> and opened it some days ago
<didrocks> bug #1698752
<ubot5`> bug 1698752 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity is still installed after standard desktop 17.10 installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698752
<jibel> thanks
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, seen my comments about chromium yesterday? I filed https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=735947 upstream, and I think the packages in ppa:canonical-chromium-builds/stage should be good to go, for when you have some time to review them
<willcooke> Laney, looks like the changes to the filtering on the mailing list are working
<Laney> phat
<Laney> good work
<immu> hmm
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<willcooke> hi flexiondotorg
<oSoMoN> hey flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> didrocks Any chance you can take a look at LP: #1699333 and LP: #1699334 please?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1699333 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699333
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1699334 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] vala-panel-appmenu" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1699334
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: I can't sorry dude, need to prepare for other things (going to a client). So Wednesday at best now.
<didrocks> you can still ask other AA to get you sponsored/unblocked
<jibel> didrocks, it seems that ubiquity removal broke with the release of livecd-rootfs you did on the 6th
<didrocks> jibel: could be the logic changed then. cyphermox is looking at it AFAIK.
<flexiondotorg> didrocks OK. I'll see if I can get someone else to assist.
<cyphermox> didrocks: jibel: right; didrocks' change looks correct to me, somehow live-build disagrees and does the wrong thing
 * oSoMoN takes off for today, have a good week-end everyone!
<willcooke> night oSoMoN
 * didrocks does the same, will travel on Sunday, see you next week guys! (Will be on and off from Germany for this client event)
<seb128> have a good w.e desktopers!
<Laney> night seb128
 * willcooke is off to the ball
<willcooke> night all
<willcooke> not around next week much cos I'm in London
<Laney> exciting, NM knows I'm on mobile broadband somehow
<Laney> ANDROID_METERED
<Laney> nice
<cyphermox> everyone in the team left already?
<cyphermox> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1698752
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1698752 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity is still installed after standard desktop 17.10 installation" [High,Triaged]
<cyphermox> just fyi, didrocks is assigned, but if you want to fix it "sooner", you might already know whether indicators are required in the gnome-shell world
<Laney> cyphermox: they can be removed, unless they are required for some ubiquity usecase
<Laney> I'm on a too crappy connection to do that (see my previous lines)
<Laney> so go for it
<cyphermox> Laney: tbf, I'm eager to put this aside and move on to other thigns I need to do before I'm on vacation next week
<cyphermox> Laney: I don't think one more day is a big deal, didrocks or someone else can do the changes monday
<Laney> he's away
<Laney> but ok... feels like it would be easy to do for someone who already figured it out
<Laney> as you wish
<cyphermox> it's not hard to do for anyone, sicne I already mentioned the details on the bug
<Laney> it requires someone to sit down and get to it
<cyphermox> to decide whether the indicators are needed and unseed or MIR
<Laney> no
<Laney> they are not needed
<Laney> train is moving now, probably going to drop off
<Laney> orite, unity-greeter
<Laney> I think they will drop off automatically once that's gone
<Laney> it's not a direct seed
 * Laney replied
<Laney> cyphermox: thanks for the analysis!
<immu> what is the level of Optimus technology support in ubuntu? for dual graphics
<cyphermox> Laney: ok, circled back to this now, I can fix it
<cyphermox> oh, but this is lightdm vs. gdm3 stuff
<jbicha> yes, it's unity-greeter
<cyphermox> yes, that's what I was saying
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-24
<immu> any development in Ubuntu?
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-18
<BillGHero> Is this the right place for problems that appear to be Gnome/GDM related?
<duflu> BillGHero, yes it is
<duflu> But most of the team is in other timezones
<BillGHero> Does that mean I should try at a different time?
<jamesh> BillGHero: maybe explain your problem.  If we can help, then great.
<BillGHero> Ok. And thanks in advance.
<BillGHero> I have a Ubunt 18.04 clean isntall. Worked fine for a couple weeks. Now GDM will not present the GUI login screen.
<duflu> BillGHero, can you please create a bug report by running 'ubuntu-bug gdm3' ?
<duflu> We'll need to use that to collect info about your system and figure it out
<jamesh> BillGHero: what's the output of "systemctl status gdm3" (you can copy the output to https://paste.ubuntu.com/)
<BillGHero> jamesh, sure thing https://pastebin.com/29thHK5r
<duflu> BillGHero, please create a bug report with 'ubuntu-bug gdm3'
<BillGHero> duflu, working on it. Can't send it by web browser right now so...
<BillGHero> * haven't used scp before :)
<BillGHero> * actually, let me see if I can pastebin it. It is long...
<BillGHero> duflu Bug-report: https://pastebin.com/ve4AMfJc
<duflu> BillGHero, that should have created a bug on launchpad. If not then please create it manually here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+filebug
<jamesh> BillGHero: if you've got another machine with working gui, I think you can copy the .apport file over and then run "ubuntu-bug apport.gdm3.c6t5_xkc.apport"
<jamesh> that should start the bug report process
<BillGHero> jamesh, Ok I have started the bug report.
<BillGHero> jamesh, how detailed should I make the 'Further Information' block?
<jamesh> BillGHero: if you remember anything changing on the system between when GDM worked and when it stopped working, include that.
<BillGHero> Ok. It is submitted. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1777378
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1777378 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "GDM no longer presents GUI login Ubuntu 18.04" [Undecided,New]
<BillGHero> Hopefully running ubuntu-bug on a different machine won't cloud the submitted files any. ;)
<jamesh> The info in the bug looks like it matches the .apport file you pasted earlier
<duflu> BillGHero, please dont run that command on a different machine
<jamesh> duflu: he was doing it using the .apport file generated on the problem machine
<duflu> otp...
<BillGHero> otp?
<duflu> on the phone
<duflu> Still on the phone but see the bug report...
<BillGHero> duflu, if you are the one asking for the apport-collect, it is waiting for a browser window to open. It is waiting in vein as there is no GUI available right now (the whole reason for my seeking help).
<BillGHero> Is there any other method to accomplish this under the circumstances?
<BillGHero> I am attempting the fix from #5
<BillGHero> duflu, Is there any command I should run after changeing custom.conf, prior to reboot?
<duflu> BillGHero, it's fine the run the command on the affected machine, then copy and paste the link onto another
<duflu> BillGHero, no just reboot
<BillGHero> duflu, apport files are now on bug page.
<duflu> BillGHero, thanks. Please respond in the bug, where there are more questions
<BillGHero> duflu, performed the manual downgrade from #12. Also ran an update with apport. There is also an observation relating to the GDM3 service. posted in case it helps.
<duflu> BillGHero, I know, thanks. Answering now
<jibel> Good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu
<jibel> duflu, so we finally figured out what was broken on uefi systems.
<jibel> s/was/is/
<duflu> jibel, I think I saw, but I don't understand. Glad you do
<jibel> duflu, it's a change in the dependencies and a package that configures grub and the efi partition is missing.
<jibel> but it is not as simple a just readding the dep apparently because it must not be installed on cloud images afaiu
<duflu> Real bugs are never simple :)
<duflu> Back in a bit
<Nafallo> orning
<Nafallo> morning
<BillGHero> Morning. And goodnite. ;)
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> jibel, how long did it take to have your meter fitted?
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128
<Laney> what's up
<seb128> hey duflu, Laney, how are you?
<didrocks> hey Laney
<duflu> seb128, surprisingly busy. One of those days where everyone replies at once. You?
<seb128> haha, getting code reviews? ;)
<duflu> seb128, that and bug reporters and family...
<seb128> I'm not great yet, but maybe that come once coffee kicks in? w.e was good but I had a few work things in mind when I stopped on friday that I didn't manage to fully put aside and didn't relax as much as I wanted due to that :/
<duflu> seb128, me too. I was actually wishing I had a longer weekend in order to get some work done before Monday
<didrocks> seb128: try to disconnect your brain more ;)
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks duflu
<Laney> seb128: good, went back for a family party & saw the kids
<Laney> tired last night though, was in bed very early :-)
<Laney> don't know how you parents do it
<didrocks> not great when kid wake up multiple times a night :p
<seb128> yeah, I don't know how we do it either
<seb128> w.e was fun but exhausting, I had 2 or 3 small things I wanted to do/look at for me this week, didn't manage to do any of those
<seb128> the kid doesn't like to play alone, he's always asking for us
<seb128> we were also invited to another kid birthday's party on saturday, in a place for kids with lot of floor big cushions, balls, etc, you can let them go around safely, that was fun
<seb128> and I got a "lunch on a pancakes boat" as a gift yesterday
<seb128> that was nice/fun as well, but lot of kids around so noisy :/
<duflu> Hi Laney
<duflu> A pancakes boat sounds very Dutch
<seb128> heh
<seb128> didrocks, g-c-c SRU made it to -updates if you want to follow up with what you had queued
<didrocks> seb128: excellent! Will do, thanks :)
<seb128> thank you!
<Nafallo> hrm. I think I've got another bug now that I finally picked up a dock for my XPS13.
<Nafallo> seem Terminator is static on both screens, even when I've got Firefox selected on the second one.
<Nafallo> hmm. no. it's worse.
<Nafallo> the program that was last selected on the primary display is the one that show up at the top left on both screens... whatever I have on the second screen seems like it's getting ignored.
<Trevinho> hi guyz
<Nafallo> hey Trevinho :-)
<Trevinho> hi Nafallo
<Trevinho> Laney: hey
<Laney> hi Trevinho
<Laney> how's it going?
<Trevinho> good
<Trevinho> you?
<Laney> yah i'm good
<Trevinho> Laney: I've pushed the branches in https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell branches, now the one is marked as ubuntu/master actually should be like ubuntu/bionic-3.28.2-sru once that is finalized (or like ubunt/bionic) while in the master-next there's a full merge with debian too for cosmic. Good thing is that I've fully kept our history in the /debian/* (as I wanted to do for others)
<Laney> got some sweets
<Trevinho> good :)
<Laney> umm
<Trevinho> while https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/+merge/348099 is the change for the SRU
<Laney> i'll have to take a look at those to see what you did
<Trevinho> I've to finish adding patches to the SRU though
<Trevinho> Laney: and ah, yeah, I've also to update some debian settings and dbp stuff, that's just a merge of content for now. but the rest is easy
<Laney> Trevinho: can you just make there be ubuntu/master and ubuntu/bionic please? this is confusing to me
<Nafallo> so... when I verify an SRU, should I change both verfification-needed and verification-needed-bionic or just the bionic one?
<Trevinho> Laney: in master and bionic you want what we've currently in lp:~dt...?
<Trevinho> or the updated one?
<Laney> what is this subtree thing?
<Laney> Trevinho: you can add a tag for the current versions then it's easy to see the diff
<Laney> If it's OK I can just push those tags to the branches
<Laney> the next commit after that could be fixing up the debian/ stuff for git
<Trevinho> Laney: basically you merge two branches with unrelated histories, under a prefix..
<Laney> Nafallo: you can change v-needed if there's no other releases to verify
<Laney> Trevinho: are you doing something complicated :/
<Nafallo> Laney: cheers, fixing.
<Trevinho> Laney: no, not really.. I just hate to trash logs
<Trevinho> it's just few commands, but at least you keep everything around
<Laney> like I see Debian's history
<Laney> and then something to do with importing a subtree
<Trevinho> you should see both
<Laney> then a commit from oSoMoN
<Trevinho> that's depending on the visualizer
<Laney> and then some merge thing
<Trevinho> use a git graph view
<Trevinho> gitg for example or something that shows things per branches and time
<Laney> it's a bit annoying to go away and invent a new way of dealing with things on your own on the side
<Trevinho> Laney: to be fair the best way to do it would have been checkout at where ubuntu and debian forked, merge the debian salsa there, and then pull the remaining stuff from ubuntu, but that would be a bit time consuming
<Trevinho> that was just what I proposed since the beginning. there's really nothing different from just merging. And I'd actually would love to fix also what has been already moved to git
<Trevinho> i could also do things in the inversed way in case, so start from salsa and then merge there ubuntu if you prefer, there's no really difference on that, just want to preserve history there.
<Trevinho> in any case we can't just use current salsa as base... Well I've done that too, but it's quite different and seb said to do the sync with debian later only for cosmic
<Trevinho> (and that's what ubuntu/mastern-next is about)
<Laney> if others don't need to know about the subtree things I think it's good, you get better history there
<Laney> and you can fix the others if you can do it without rebasing if you want
<Laney> for converting other things, find the last fork point and merge in from there to make it look like what we have in Ubuntu now
<Laney> then we can merge back in from salsa to do the next update
<Trevinho> yeah, that was what I though to do too as written, I'd just need to merge the ubuntu things earlier, shouldnt' be much different
<Laney> you need to write this down if you want other people to do the same
<Trevinho> I've written in the hub, time ago... Not the commands though
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/git this page
<Trevinho> which I hope I just I didn't just get them lost with the last reboot -_-
<Trevinho> but, yeah
<Laney> I would usually merge the debian tags rather than the branch
<Laney> unless we want something unreleased
<Trevinho> yes, sure
<Laney> alright
<Laney> k let me know again when it's updated once more
<Trevinho> ok
<Laney> need to go stare at my VM some more
<Laney> thx!
<Trevinho> after lunch
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, did you see the review comment from Seth on the fprintd MIR? he's asking about the "dbus-policy-without-send-destination" lintian warning, would be nice if you could have a look/respond there
<andyrock> hey all!
<Trevinho> hi andyrock
<Trevinho> seb128: I saw it, I'll repyl
<seb128> Trevinho, thx
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<seb128> andyrock, ready to come back to sunny Europe? ;)
<andyrock> yep :D
<andyrock> hopefully sunny for the sprint
<seb128> or Trevinho is going to need to rename it "the rain sprint"
<seb128> less fancy
<Trevinho> yeah, you know... it could still be
<Trevinho> :|
<Trevinho> fckkkk, I just read they plan an 8Â° temperature drop -_-
<seb128> weather.com states 27Â°C during the day and 16Â°C at night this W.E, that's nice
<seb128> some clouds and showers during the w.e though
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-19
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> G'day didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hey seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, playing too many games of email tennis. You?
<seb128> not playing enough games of real tennis? :p
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> good otherwise, better than yesterday at least
<seb128> no headache and a bit less tired this morning
<duflu> Heh. No, probably last century when I tried
 * didrocks was on the same camp of fiever + headache yesterday
<didrocks> it's better today
<duflu> A team that sneezes together...
<Laney> moinnnnnnnnnnnnn
<seb128> hey Laney, on IRC before the hour, what is happening?!
<Laney> first (and last) time for everything!
<duflu> Morning Laney
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> didrocks made me use my brain first thing this morning.
<willcooke> That was his first mistake
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<Laney> hey duflu didrocks willcooke
<didrocks> willcooke: and more food for thoughts ;)
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> what secret thing is going on
<didrocks> Laney: nothing secret, whoopsie & enabling autosending or "never bother me again please" option
<didrocks> and you can see that whoopsie can shift to like 15+ more different dialogs layout with slight variations :)
<didrocks> seb128: Laney: so, when you have a fresh head, do not hesitate to have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/git
<didrocks> apart from "merge with debian", the rest should be all good
<didrocks> explaining a little bit the concepts, what remote we are pointing to and whyâ¦
<didrocks> I hope that makes sense :)
<Laney> alright, will do later on, thx!
<seb128> didrocks, oh, nice, thanks! I will give you my feedback from someone who doesn't masters the git secrets ;)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I couldn't explain all git concepts though, as it would be way much longer, but basically, you should only need to know about what a remote is, and local checkcout/branch
<didrocks> then, that should be enough
<seb128> didrocks, let's, see, I did read git tutorial and explanation of the details in the past
<didrocks> ok, keep me posted :)
<seb128> that's just doesn't stick for me, it's like "blablablabla"
<seb128> so let's see if I can make sense of it :)
<didrocks> I think if you have a vague idea of what a remote is, the first part should help
<didrocks> I tried to explain the setup first, even we don't need it then for a day to day
<didrocks> operation*
<seb128> right; I've a look today or tomorrow morning before people get online if today is too busy
<didrocks> sure, no hurry :)
<seb128> that might be a good read over morning coffee when everything is still quiet :)
<didrocks> heh, indeed :p
<seb128> duflu, the bluez update, you copied the postinst/preinst/postrm changes from Debian?
<duflu> seb128, yes. It appears Ubuntu historically copied from Debian alreay
<duflu> already
<seb128> duflu, right, that makes sense, your changelog didn't make that clear though and I was wondering how much I needed to try to understand the changes before sponsoring
<seb128> if Debian has them they are tested so just a glance should be enough :)
<duflu> seb128, I was worried too. Before I realized I was changing old Debian code to new Debian code
<seb128> duflu, bluez uploaded, thanks for the work!
<duflu> That and some other changes mean our diff to Debian is smaller now
<seb128> yeah
<duflu> thanks seb128
<seb128> we should review our delta at some point and see if maybe we can get back in sync
<seb128> np!
<duflu> I was concerned when 5.49 was newest. Then 5.50 came out and Debian didn't have it, so the delta was large again (as it usually is)
<duflu> seb128, the PPA containing 5.50 has some vocal users and they all remained silent even after I introduced the Debian changes
<duflu> No news is good news
<seb128> right
<Laney> xnox: what's the right way to check if there's a systemd --user instance? the equivalent of access ("/run/systemd/system", F_OK) for the system manager
<Laney> there's no $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/systemd/user
<xnox> hm, there is no XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/systemd/system, but there is XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/systemd
<xnox> but i guess you can check that XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/systemd/private is a socket
<xnox> meaning systemd on the other end is listening (or something that pretends to be systemd)
<xnox> oooh
<xnox> but there is /run/systemd/users/1000
<xnox> i wonder what is that
<Laney> maybe I should check for it on the session bus?
<xnox> ah that's just seats from logind
<xnox> Laney, it should be on the session bus.... assuming that user dbus has started, and systemd connected to it.
<xnox> Laney, may not be true for e.g. ssh logins
<xnox> however i guess we always start dbus these days.
<xnox> (user one)
<Laney> right, can you have that without a user bus?
<Laney> I guess you can, because it starts it
 * Laney goes to ask #systemd
<Laney> someone suggested that I check user@uid.service
<xnox> Laney, user@uid.service yeah that would work race free.
<Laney> it's a bit tedious to check that
<Laney> but can do
<xnox> and that checks needs to be on the system bus / system thing.
<Laney> yes
<xnox> XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/systemd/private should be the same
<xnox> as that unit opens that socket.
<xnox> and that's what systemctl --user talks to
<Laney> if I was a reviewed I'd probably question that
<xnox> i wonder if XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/systemd is cleaned up on logout, cause then one can simply test that dir.
<Laney> xnox: I went for just looking for it on the session bus, that's the least code and it'll be OK in practice I think
<willcooke> that was close
<willcooke> faulty fan in my switch was to blame this time, not my ISP
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 19 13:30:02 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock (out), dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber (out), kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN (off), seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<didrocks> hey
<seb128> hey
<kenvandine> o/
<willcooke> I'll just give the others a couple of mins
<Laney> H
<dgadomski> o/
<willcooke> k
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: andyrock
<willcooke> * MP to implement https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/desktop-design/issues/62 : https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/merge_requests/50
<willcooke> * Start discussion with Gnome Online Accounts to improve the API: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues/7
<willcooke> * Update MP to add Ubuntu Single Sign-On provide in upstream Gnome Online Accounts: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/merge_requests/1/diffs
<willcooke> * Update MP to add support to HTTP over Unix Sockets to libsoup : https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libsoup/merge_requests/6
<gitlab-bot> CanonicalLtd bug 62 in desktop-design "Authentication in gnome-software using gnome-online-accounts" (comments: 21) [Priority: High, Review: Ux +1, Closed] - Assigned to matthewpaulthomas (Matthew Thomas)
<willcooke> * Proposed fix LP: #1764723 -> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gnome-initial-setup/merge_requests/6
<ubot5> bug 62 in Launchpad itself "Maintainers can add themselves to the CC: list too" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62
<willcooke> * WIP: fixing problem with auto-repeat shortcuts in gnome-shell/mutter (e.g. F11)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1764723 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "gnome-initial-setup says that Livepatch is "all set" even if enabling is still in progress." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1764723
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 50 in gnome-software "auth: Use gnome-online-accounts to handle the authentication" (comments: 1) [Opened]
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug 7 in gnome-online-accounts "Extend API to add accounts client-side." (comments: 0) [Opened]
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 1 in gnome-online-accounts "backend: Add Ubuntu Single Sing-On provider" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 7 could not be found
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 6 in libsoup "Allow http over unix socket" (comments: 4) [Opened]
<gitlab-bot> Ubuntu bug (Merge request) 6 in gnome-initial-setup "livepatch: show an dialog in case of error" (comments: 4) [Opened]
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> back to bug #1749289, changing approach - fixing debinstaller instead of ubiquity
<ubot5> bug 1749289 in oem-config (Ubuntu) "Installer stops after pressing Cancel on Select a language screen during OEM install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1749289
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> * Desktop Git workflow:
<didrocks>   - Spent quite some time to analyze and see how to best setup our git branch, using gbp tools as much as possible, but sometimes, fallbacking to git push one
<didrocks>   - Experimented various cases on the g-c-c branch to test merging new upstream version, what happens when a newer upstream version is in master and we got an older maintenance release on a maintenance branchâ¦
<didrocks>   - Redacted all this on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/git
<didrocks> * SRUed G-C-C with whoopsie, emailed translator team
<didrocks> * Communitheme:
<didrocks>   - Debugged snap dir for themes issues with Ken (which ended up as https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/134)
<gitlab-bot> ubuntu bug (Pull request) 134 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "Prepend $SNAP/data-dir to XDG_DATA_DIRS to allow mounting themes there" (comments: 1) [Closed]
<didrocks>   - Discussed with core team about what to do for cursor theme now that Suru provides one. We found a way and will remove one repo. Review proposed changes, more to be done: https://github.com/ubuntu/communitheme-snap-helpers/pull/13
<gitlab-bot> ubuntu bug (Pull request) 13 in communitheme-snap-helpers "Switched to communitheme-icon-theme for cursors" (comments: 10) [Open]
<didrocks> * Google codelabs
<didrocks>   - Rebased and some fixes https://github.com/googlecodelabs/tools/pull/33. Now merged! We can probably rebase tutorials.ubuntu.com on it now.
<gitlab-bot> googlecodelabs bug (Pull request) 33 in tools "Implement new md parser" (comments: 22) [Closed] - Assigned to x1ddos (alex)
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> thanks didrocks, any .1 bugs to talk about?
<didrocks> I have one assigned, will look into it this week
<willcooke> thx
<didrocks> there is apport/whoopsie TODO
<didrocks> but you know about that one :)
<willcooke> :) and how
<didrocks> (waiting for more answers ;))
 * willcooke is thinking about it, will take some time :)
<willcooke> #topic duflu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: duflu
<willcooke> * https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/117: Spent most of my short week revising the zoom fix because some problems were found. The good news is that the same patch now solves even more bugs than before. It will also allow us to use offscreening more to further improve performance in future.
<willcooke> * Continued iterating the big performance branches with upstream:
<willcooke>   - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/119
<willcooke>   - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/73
<willcooke>   - Delayed by the unexpected ongoing work in !117 (above).
<willcooke> * HELP: BlueZ 5.50 awaiting sponsorship (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759961)
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 117 in mutter "clutter: Fix offscreen-effect painting of clones" (comments: 14) [Opened]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1759961 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Update to bluez 5.50" [Medium,Fix released]
<willcooke> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput.
<willcooke>   - Lots of time spent triaging and trying to keep the backlog growth to a minimum...
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 119 in mutter "renderer-native: Reference count front buffers." (comments: 70) [Opened]
<willcooke>   - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRDHPxGBHqM6XkT_S8ggtYfD0xchKSUD_z9PopNVE3G1rU05fVSnxDGcDsEstl7gu7N-tzCU6mLUp2V/pubchart?oid=254968654&format=interactive
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 73 in mutter "WIP: renderer-native: CRTCs now hold front buffer refs." (comments: 42) [Opened]
<willcooke> --- last week (already sent but it was after the last meeting) ---
<willcooke> * Cosmic regressions:
<willcooke>   - Help! Cosmic daily images broke recently (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775743)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1775743 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[regression] Cosmic daily images 20180606-11 install but boots only to grub prompt on EFI systems" [Critical,In progress]
<willcooke> * BlueZ update:
<willcooke>   - Prepared version 5.50 for cosmic - now awaiting sponsorship (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759961)
<willcooke> * Mutter update:
<willcooke>   - Prepared a bugfix+performance update for mutter - awaiting sponsorship (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1767648/comments/20)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1767648 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Top bar and shell dialogs are not displayed properly when zoom is enabled" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> * Continued iterating the big performance branches with upstream:
<willcooke>   - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/119
<willcooke>     . Fixed the blocking issues upstream complained about.
<willcooke>     . Finally got up to final testing: hybrid GPUs, only to find mutter is broken (nothing to do with my code). So maybe I'll need to look at fixing https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/182 before being able to test this fully.
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug 182 in mutter "Using two GPUs with one monitor each, one is always black" (comments: 5) [Opened]
<ubot5> Error: Gnome bug 182 could not be found
<willcooke>   - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/73
<willcooke>     . Continued improvements, but not finished yet. Depends on !119 anyway.
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 73 in mutter "WIP: renderer-native: CRTCs now hold front buffer refs." (comments: 42) [Opened]
<willcooke> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput.
<willcooke>   - I decided to bite the bullet and do something about the xorg backlog. Expect to see it dropping over the coming weeks...
<willcooke>   - Solid progress: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRDHPxGBHqM6XkT_S8ggtYfD0xchKSUD_z9PopNVE3G1rU05fVSnxDGcDsEstl7gu7N-tzCU6mLUp2V/pubchart?oid=254968654&format=interactive
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: jbicha
<willcooke> Not sure if jbicha is around today
<willcooke> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: jamesh
<willcooke> kenvandine, did you get an update from james?
<kenvandine> willcooke, i did not :/
<seb128> :(
<willcooke> kk, can you nudge him again
<kenvandine> sure
<willcooke> #topic jibel \ heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: jibel \ heber
<willcooke> - Debugged bug 1775743 now in the hands of Foundations for fixing.
<willcooke> - SRU verification of Ubiquity, Ubuntu-report, Gnome-initial-setup on Bionic. The SRU verification of g-i-s is blocked because 2 bugs cannot be verified. Extra documentation needed.
<willcooke> - SRU verification of gnome-software on Xenial. The verification of gnome-software is currently blocked in Xenial due to a regression (featured app banner is broken cf my comment in bug 1597314) until further investigation by Robert.
<willcooke> - Continued with the ubuntu-report dashboard.
<ubot5> bug 1775743 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[regression] Cosmic daily images 20180606-11 install but boots only to grub prompt on EFI systems" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775743
<ubot5> bug 1597314 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Xenial) "Support snap interface plugs and slots" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1597314
<willcooke> heber, anything you want to add?
<willcooke> guess now
<willcooke> not
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * Updated all the GNOME snaps
<kenvandine>   - handle the slot rename for gtk-3-themes
<kenvandine>   - fixed all snapcraft deprecations
<kenvandine>   - updated to newer versions where possible
<kenvandine>   - tested and promoted to stable
<kenvandine> * Reviews
<kenvandine> * Sponsored SRU of flatpak to bionic https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flatpak/+bug/1776307
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1776307 in flatpak (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] New upstream microrelease flatpak 0.11.8.3" [Undecided,In progress]
<kenvandine> â¾
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine, any rls bugs?
<kenvandine> nope
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ systemd --user:
<Laney> â Got a working sequence for x11 (g-s-d needs to start before gnome-shell) and wayland (after), after much head scratching and feeling stupid
<Laney> â doing build system integration and tidying up (make optional in GDM)
<Laney> â after that works, can start pushing some MRs and stuff, probably make a PPA
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest:
<Laney> â there was a systemd PR which broke the MTU made the runners fall over, hassled the submitter and provided debugging info. some guy tried to blame netplan but it was innocent, ohohohoh
<Laney> â chatted to server team guys about rabbitmq OOMing since it's "theirs", need to collect some figures about memory usage over time
<Laney> â¢ rls bugs all done, think they are holding on releasing gstreamer until it's out in cosmic, so might help look into -proposed problems to move that along
<Laney> â¢ some reviews for Marco
<Laney> â¢ some chats about git packaging stuff
<Laney> â¢ HR review things
<Laney> â½
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ still some post-holidays catching up
<seb128> â¢ spent most of the week on HR things/reviews
<seb128> â¢ reviewed/sponsored the bluez update from Daniel
<seb128> â¢ verified some bionic SRUs
<seb128> â¢ emailed the OEM team about getting the bolt/g-c-c tb panel SRUs verified
<seb128> â¢ some trello board/bugs reviews
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> Thunderbolt is the only .1 thing right?
<seb128> on my list? or that we have to do for .1? ;)
<willcooke> on your list specifically
<seb128> well, some SRUs that have been verified have useful fixes
<seb128> both from those items yes
<willcooke> or rather the rls list
<willcooke> thanks
<seb128> Marco replied to security about fprintd yesterday
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<seb128> so that's ongoing
<willcooke> ace, thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<tkamppeter> - cpdb-libs, cpdb-backend-cups: Improved upstream code to not sprintf() into fixed size buffers, in preparation for MIR.
<tkamppeter> - cpdb-libs: Started working on autopkg test.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2018: Mentoring of the students on Common Print Dialog Backends and printer auto-selection by job.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: Trevinho
 * willcooke doesn't know what timezone Trevinho is in any more
<seb128> he's in Italy
<seb128> so should be there
<willcooke> I'll give him a moment and then we can come back if needed
<seb128> he's getting ready for the sun sprint starting this w.e :)
<seb128> I didn't see him active on IRC today
<seb128> so maybe best to come back to him
<Laney> 19/06 14:48:05 -!-  idle     : 0 days 19 hours 58 mins 44 secs [signon: Fri Apr 20 13:49:11 2018]
<Laney> SLACK!
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Reviewed libsoup unix socket patch.
<willcooke> - Working on gnome-control-center patches for merging Ubuntu panels.
<willcooke> - Following up gnome-software SRU paperwork.
<willcooke> - Booked travel to Engineering sprint.
<willcooke> #topic rls -bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: rls -bugs
<willcooke> Looking at http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html first
<willcooke> Looks fine
<willcooke> Looking at: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> Everything looks assigned that should be
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/1776499 that one
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1776499 in mesa (Ubuntu Bionic) "Crash in libegl-mesa0 due to out of bound array access" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> probably just assign that to Timo
<seb128> +1
<didrocks> yep
<Laney> (done)
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<Laney> there's a lot of Fix Committed
<Laney> including mine
<Laney> we should make an effort to clear those out
<willcooke> Could that be a topic for sun sprint?
<Laney> if it's not just aging srus
<willcooke> Since most of you will be in the same place
<seb128> SRUs are mostly clear
<Laney> feels like that list doesn't really go down in size
<seb128> there are 2 apps update to verify but otherwise our list seemed cleaned on friday
<Laney> but I could be wrong
<Laney> (get that on grafana?)
<seb128> or new things adds up to it to replace the one clearing out
<seb128> but yeah
<seb128> I'm going to review it post meeting, I don't think we need to hold the meeting on that
<Laney> dunno, I think there's a lot of old stuff
<Trevinho> ops sorry guys, my alarm didn't ring
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: Trevinho
 * didrocks checked his, still in proposed
<seb128> didrocks, it just aged to 7 days today
<seb128> so that's normal
<seb128> hopefully they move it on their next proposed->updates review round
<didrocks> wasn't complaining, just telling it's normal :)
<seb128> yeah
<Trevinho> Â· Ported nux and some other unity legacy stuff to git
<Trevinho> Â· Prepared gnome-shell git branches for SRU and 2.28.2
<Trevinho>   https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/
<Trevinho> Â· Continued some fixes on nautilus
<Trevinho> Â· Preparing for the sun sprint
<Laney> ok, seems you think there's no problem, fine
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho, eof?
<Trevinho> Â· Nux and x11-common fixes to fix unity lefovers
<seb128> Trevinho, is somebody reviewing your g-s update?
<Trevinho> seb128: Laney did I need to rebase it again
<seb128> Laney, I'm going to have a look post meeting to make sure
<Trevinho> Ah, also prepared g-s merge with debian for C
<Trevinho> that's all folks (well not all, but lots of other small things no need to mention)
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-19 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> k, so we're happy with the bugs list
<willcooke> anything else for now?
<willcooke> 1m timeout
<Laney> I think you missed my suggestion to graph the size of those lists over time
<Laney> or like incoming / outgoing bugs on it
<Laney> that's it
<seb128> or the everage age of the items
<willcooke> Laney, ah, nice idea.  I'll ask jibel if it can be done. Well, jibel can it be done? ^
<seb128> or/and
<seb128> he's off
<willcooke> jibel is out, so we will find out tomorrow
<seb128> right
<willcooke> anyone got anything else?
<willcooke> in which case
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 19 14:00:05 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-06-19-13.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<seb128> thanks!
<Laney> thx
<Trevinho> > Laney> 19/06 14:48:05 -!-  idle     : 0 days 19 hours 58 mins 44 secs [signon: Fri Apr 20 13:49:11 2018]
<Trevinho> That's not something that it works for me, as I might not touch IRC the whole day if I've some code that grabs my attention earlier ;-)
<Trevinho> better to check PRs/commit times :)
<Laney> Trevinho: yeah you don't say hi to us ð­
<Trevinho> I need human touch, you know... I'll warmly give you hi's next week :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> Trevinho, so what do you need to rebase on for g-s/bionic?
<Trevinho> seb128: I need to fix the merging point with debian salsa
<Trevinho> as I want to preserve our bzr history too (ported to git), so it's not just "get salsa, include our chnages in a blob"
<seb128> Trevinho, Didier also saying that gbp buildpackage isn't working on your vcs
<Trevinho> not much harder, just I don't want to loose git blame functionality
<seb128> is the rebease going to fix that?
<Trevinho> seb128: I've not updated the gpb settings yet, but yes
<Trevinho> I'm doing this by today though
<didrocks> it's going to be one branch using a complete different workflow than other :/
<didrocks> as told already last week
<didrocks> but seems ignoredâ¦ annoying
<Laney> I think it's the initial import only
<didrocks> no pristine-tar workflow
<didrocks> from what I get from the discussion
<Laney> it will be
<didrocks> ah, so it will follow like others?
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks for doing that today
<Laney> he's doing some thing to import the bzr history too, that's the only difference
<didrocks> we will only have 3 branches (+ maintenance branch) in launchpad
<Laney> or I hope it is anyway
<Trevinho> didrocks: no, no different wf...
<didrocks> let's see, but in that case, I doubt we'll be able to remerged that with debian
<Trevinho> didrocks: I've already a debian-in merged branch too
<didrocks> Trevinho: there is no upstream/latest branch
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah, well yeah, i've to push these, but I've them all locally
<didrocks> is that a leftover that you forgot and will fix?
<didrocks> ensure that you push tags as well
<Trevinho> yes they should be pushed already
<didrocks> and follow the structure described in the new wiki page:
<Trevinho> yeah I read that
<didrocks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/git
<didrocks> it ensures you always push those branch, with this setup
<didrocks> (if not, please yell at me ;))
<Trevinho> but I want to include my bits to import stuff, and in case fix other branches too since importing our history is easy, and loose it a shame
<Trevinho> would need some git push --force maybe but, you guys can do those safely
<didrocks> yeah, I'm unsure it is if debian/patches is well documented, but I can see the point
<didrocks> well, only for first import, correct?
<didrocks> then, you won't need -f ?
<Trevinho> yep
<didrocks> let's see once you have done it
<didrocks> I really think that dropping pristine-tar (but debian needs to do that) would be good for projects not neededing it
<Trevinho> well the -f will be needed only for those branches who are already in git and that didn't have our history in, and that thus would need to be rebased
<didrocks> needing*
<Trevinho> I don't care about that too
<didrocks> Trevinho: you want to reconvert all existing branches?
<Laney> please no
<Laney> find a way to do it with a new merge commit
<Trevinho> didrocks: I wanted to script that, but not if that implies big changes
<didrocks> Trevinho: you should really update the wiki first with what you want to do, or add a section
<didrocks> before touching all the branches
<Trevinho> Laney: I can, but then history could look bad in git log (it will bein git graph)
<Trevinho> didrocks: I can't touch all the branches, so you guys will in case if agree
<Trevinho> :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: well, you can still update the wiki
<Trevinho> in any case, I'm not touching everything if that's too work, we can still fix those later
<Trevinho> yep, I will
<seb128> we sort of agreed some time ago to discard the bzr history
<Laney> yes we did
<seb128> because others said it was too difficult to carry over
<didrocks> I don't see why we are coming back on that decision
<seb128> so why are we revisiting?
<Trevinho> I never was in that discussion maybe, and I woudlnt' agree :)
<didrocks> team meeting?
<seb128> it was discussed in a team meeting iirc
<Trevinho> well, since it's easy to keep imho we can try to do it if it's not too hard.
<Trevinho> there are cases where that is more complicated, so it's ok to skip, but for most of cases it's just about going back to the fork point, include our stuff, and then remerge debian
<Trevinho> I can't delete stuff, sorry... it's my problem :)
<didrocks> your problem is impacting everyone though :p
<Trevinho> in a good way hopefully
<didrocks> you can't replay the history, add the correct tag, reimport all versions
<didrocks> so I don't really think it's even providing anything, you won't be able to rebuild an older version
<didrocks> so, losing something anyway
<Trevinho> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/c399C9n4/how%20is%20not%3F
<didrocks> first, the tags should be ubuntu/<version>
<Trevinho> for example... and if there were upstream stuff that's shown too
<didrocks> see current branch and DEP14
<didrocks> but if I come back on your history
<didrocks> at rev 3.24.1-0ubuntu2 for instance
<didrocks> I can't run gbp buildpackage, I guess?
<didrocks> in your screenshot, there is no 3.24.1-0ubuntu1 as well
<Trevinho> I've not touched those bits yet, I wanted to get things properly first history-wise then those are easy to get working
<didrocks> you have older debian version
<didrocks> and -0ubuntu2
<didrocks> seems buggy, we never had -0ubuntu1?
<Trevinho> yes, but was early
<Trevinho> wait
<Trevinho> mh, no I don't have that, maybe wasn't tagged in bzr?
<didrocks> and so, you won't have the merge from debian or upstream/latest corresponding to that vesrion
<didrocks> and so, history will be a mess because merged to next major version
<didrocks> it will never be correct
<didrocks> sounds crazy with 0 value, and just bugginess prone :/
<seb128> Trevinho, do a proof of concept of what you think is an improve, once you have a it as you want/fully done let us know and Laney/didrocks can review and see if they +1 or -1 for using that
<seb128> Trevinho, if the team -1 I'm sorry but you just need to respect that and adapt to our common workflows
<Trevinho> look, I know it won't be the best.. but it's still just better to have ability to look on diffs and revisions than just a "imported ubuntu debian, see bzr".
<seb128> didrocks, Laney, does that makes sense to you?
<Trevinho> Which has no context with upstream or debian at all
<didrocks> seb128: agreed from yesterday's discussion, it was supposed to be fixed by end of day yesterday. Sounds like it's now up to be ready for tomorrow?
<seb128> didrocks, or are you already convinced it can't work and are -1 for good today?
<didrocks> I'm sure that we'll find some issues like the one I pointed out in minutes, but we'll see
<seb128> well, if things are not perfect but there is something else in extra without any drawback it's acceptable
<seb128> if there are drawbacks of any sort then it's an issue
<didrocks> I still need to be convinced of the added value :)
<Trevinho> that's my point, I mean.. Perfection isn't needed here. "something" is better than nothing
<didrocks> and we don't just workaround bad documentation of debian/patches/*
<didrocks> Trevinho: at least, please fix the tags to be prefixed ubuntu/
<didrocks> so that we don't mix locally upstream and downstream tags
<Trevinho> sure
<Laney> cool
<Laney> I'm happy to let didrocks review it if he wants to, doesn't necessarily need to be us both
<Laney> just been reading the planet gnome wiki page
<Laney> getting added there is high effort:/
<didrocks> why? went smoothly for me
<didrocks> apart from adding a $random-old-blog-posts
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, like I was added without asking as Alberto wanted
<Laney> got to make a hackergotchi
<Trevinho> just ping him
<Laney> get it reviewed for quality or whatever that is
<Laney> file a bug!
<Laney> GOD!
<Wimpress> tjaalton: Thanks for Mesa 18.1.1 in the ubuntu-x-swat.
<Wimpress> Simplified getting 18.04 working on the Hades Canyon NUC :-)
<tjaalton> Wimpress: good to know.. 18.1.2 will follow soon
<Nafallo> hrm. I missed the meeting... *reads up*
<willcooke> night all
<Laney> yeah night!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-20
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> willcooke, jibel, morning! I can't yet raise koza and seb is out for a bit. Do you want to do the Bluetooth meeting?
<willcooke> hi duflu
<willcooke> seb can't make it either
<willcooke> and I dont really have anything to discuss
<willcooke> so I'm happy to skip
<duflu> willcooke, only 5.50 is now in cosmic.
<duflu> That is all
<willcooke> ah nice one
<duflu> Trevinho, are you around?
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<jibel> duflu, okay to skip
<willcooke> hey didrocks
<Laney> boop
<andyrock> good morning all
<didrocks> hey Laney, andyrock
<willcooke> morning Laney andyrock
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<duflu> Morning Laney
<duflu> more likely that than a supermarkey purchase just occurred
<duflu> or supermarkey
<duflu> or supermarket
 * duflu frowns at keyboard
<Laney> hey didrocks & willcooke & duflu :>
<Laney> oh and andyrock!
<Laney> where are you in the world atm?
<andyrock> back in europe
<andyrock> safe in homeland
<andyrock> XD
<andyrock> I travelled back yesterday
<Laney> :>
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> hi seb128
<seb128> sorry I was late for the bluetooth meeting
<seb128> I didn't have much to contribute anyway, just that I uploaded the bluez update from d_uflu yesterday
<willcooke> seb128, we skipped it
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> I saw
<seb128> wfm :)
<Laney> moin seb128
<didrocks> salut seb128
<willcooke> Anyone know if it's possible to disable GNOME Shells positioning of pop up windows in the centre of the main application window?
<willcooke> specically, I'm doing some stuff if LibreOffice and the chart options window is smack in the middle where I want to see behind it
<duflu> willcooke, I think gnome-tweaks lets you change it?
<ahayzen> willcooke, you probably need to disable "Attach Modal Dialogues" in Tweaks -> Windows
<willcooke> yay, that did it!
<willcooke> thanks chaps
<Trevinho> didrocks: hey, have you seen the git repo now?
<didrocks> Trevinho: no, you didn't tell me you were done, are you?
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah, I should had to mail you since I finished last night
<Trevinho> didrocks: anyway it is
<didrocks> can you paste again the url? as it's not under ~ubuntu-desktop
 * didrocks will look this afternoon
 * Trevinho can't push there :(
<Trevinho> https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell
<didrocks> thanks!
<didrocks> 5 hours ago was last night? :)
<Trevinho> I didn't add anything to the wiki, but I can add what I did there or somewhere else
<Trevinho> extended version of night
<Trevinho> well you were not up yet :-D
<didrocks> I guess ubuntu/bionic-3.28.2-sru and ubuntu/master-next are branch that you will delete one merged?
<didrocks> I definitily was at 8am ;)
<Trevinho> yes
<didrocks> but master == current cosmic and /bionic == current bionic, correct?
<Trevinho> ah, I mean last time I checked the channel I dindn't see you... but anyways, no worries
<didrocks> (well current + staged changes maybe)
<Trevinho> didrocks: currently it's: ubuntu/bioinc current bionic, ubuntu/master proposed cosmic (and bionic SRU)
<didrocks> Trevinho: ok
<Trevinho> (proposed by me I mean
<Trevinho> but see the tags to refer to what it is)
<didrocks> as long as we didn't diverge, I don't think we should branch
<didrocks> (see the wiki)
<didrocks> only when we need to have a different maintenance branch, we should
<Trevinho> tey're not diverged so far, but I've kept them around for simplicity
 * didrocks gbp clone lp:~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell
<didrocks> Trevinho: I'll let you remove master-next and bionic-* as it's not propsoed SRU from what you told ^
<Trevinho> didrocks: need to add to the wiki to remember to make sure that lp config remote HEAD points to ubuntu/master as to me it wasn't and gbp clone failed :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: it's on the wiki, in the procedure
<didrocks> if you look at the last step for creating a new page
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah, I can remove them right now... for now just look at the content. Branches structure is not final
<didrocks> repo*
<didrocks> Trevinho: ok, i'll make as if those 2 branches don't exist, as they shouldn't
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah, ok :), I failed to read it thenxD
<didrocks> 8. Configure launchpad
<didrocks> Visit the repository page on Launchpad, and set the default branch to ubuntu/master. Also, remove the bzr branch if available to prevent other people relying on it, after checking that any pending change have been transferred to the git branch.
<didrocks> I guess that's an explicit step :p
<Trevinho> didrocks: yes, if just my reading way would be linear
<Trevinho> didrocks: anyway I've deleted the branches
<didrocks> thx
<didrocks> so, looking at it
<didrocks> upstream/3.28.1 is imported into 3.28.1-0ubuntu2
<didrocks> not 3.28.1-0ubuntu1
<Trevinho> didrocks: and, one thing... upstream/latest, probably I should change it so that the commit to import all the version we diverged are made by us, not like in salsa
<didrocks> I guess that was your first import?
<didrocks> Trevinho: I don't think we should, the data should be the same being imported by us or debian
<didrocks> and we wanted to have that merged back at some point
<Trevinho> didrocks: it is, a part from the "new upstream version" thing, and not doing that gbp import-orig will fail
<Trevinho> as the tag already exist
<Trevinho> of course we can remove and readd... but...
<Trevinho> (importing with skip-tag)
<didrocks> Trevinho: sorry, do you answer on my question or the rewrite of upstream/latest?
<Trevinho> didrocks: yes, that will be merged back then (i've also changes for going back to debian + ubuntu stuff)
<Trevinho> didrocks: a sec, I was about to do it :)
<didrocks> I'm really confused, not sure to understand you at all
<didrocks> "that" being?
<didrocks> and my question was not a yes/no question :p
<didrocks> also, what are you about to do?
<didrocks> can you just answer the question first, then, we can discuss potential changes, please don't touch anything :p
<Trevinho> I'm not
<Trevinho> didrocks: as your question, my first import is 3.28.2. I've started this way: went back to were we diverged, merged with our bzr changes, then imported the dsc then imported the orig for 3.28.2
<didrocks> imported the dsc was 3.28.1-0ubuntu2, correct?
<Trevinho> "that"? in what sentence?
<Trevinho> yep
<didrocks> 13:28:35  Trevinho | didrocks: yes, that will be merged back then (i've also changes for going back to debian + ubuntu stuff)
<Trevinho> didrocks: upstream/latest = that
<didrocks> ok, but don't rewrite the history from debian
<didrocks> keep the import to the salsa imports
<didrocks> in upstream/latest
<Trevinho> ok, that's what I did initially...
<didrocks> yeah, this is the current branch from what I see
<Trevinho> as I said the only problem is that in this scenario we've already a tag, so we need to remove temporarly, import without adding, and readd I guess?
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> which tag exactly?
<Trevinho> upstream/3.28.2
<didrocks> what did you rewrite that one?
<Trevinho> We can also use someting else than upstream/*
<Trevinho> but...
<didrocks> I don't think it's necessary
<didrocks> keep salsa's one
<didrocks> and only import the dsc
<didrocks> no?
<didrocks> s/what/why/
<Trevinho> I can't import the dsc for 3.28.2, as there's not one (from us)
<didrocks> you import the dsc for 3.28.2-0ubuntu2 from what I see
<didrocks> which shouldn't be an issue, as this isn't a -0ubuntu1
<Trevinho> nope, I've imported the 3.28.1*
<Trevinho> (dsc)
<didrocks> | | |       Import Debian changes 3.28.1-0ubuntu2
<didrocks> this is the version you imported
<didrocks> as the first one, after diverging from debian
<Trevinho> yes, .1 not .2
<didrocks> ah sorry, they alread have 3.28.2
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> but
<didrocks> we don't have a dsc for it
 * didrocks checks rmadison
<didrocks> so you don't need to import anything?
<Trevinho> exactly
<didrocks> yep, nothing publish with it
<didrocks> so, keep usptream one
<Trevinho> yes, I've imported 3.28.2 orig
<didrocks> don't rewrite their history
<Trevinho> ok, that's fine
<didrocks> as it's already imported
<didrocks> good :)
<Trevinho> we can use upstream-ubuntu/latest if you want instead
<didrocks> no, please, stick with DEP14
<didrocks> let's use their version
<didrocks> and upstream/latest
<didrocks> no need to double import the same tarballs
<Trevinho> ok, ok... so let me redo that step as I did it before
<didrocks> let me finish reviewing before doing this
<Trevinho> sure
<didrocks> so, from what I see, we ends up:
<Trevinho> workitem at least
<didrocks> ubuntu changes
<didrocks> debian changes until we diverge
<didrocks> ubuntu changes with debian/ only branch
<didrocks> in that order (from HEAD to older changes)
<didrocks> correct?
<Trevinho> depend on what visualizer you'r looking at, but base is: salsa until we diverge + ubuntu-only changes + new upstream
<didrocks> no
<didrocks> well, not in git lg
<Trevinho> check it in git log --graph
<didrocks> and you should see the same
<didrocks> that's what I'm doing
<didrocks> | * commit 1db18800539046637e20cb710cf1226f2959e515
<didrocks> is a parent of:
<didrocks> *   commit 8682b3949d1a458a5406761c98debd5431a30209
<didrocks> ah no, next to it
<didrocks> let me go to the merge commit
<didrocks> ok, up to * | |   commit 073068c3c5c70320a92275fe59bba229c60e3182
<didrocks> which merges the 2 branches
<Trevinho> (gitg is nicer to read these things :))
<didrocks> I find it puzzling that this is the commit with that message:
<didrocks> Import Debian changes 3.28.1-0ubuntu2
<didrocks> but we have: | * commit 48f0e20cafd6523683716c732ea0150e40ecfd5e (tag: ubuntu/3.28.1-0ubuntu2)
<didrocks> which is a children of it
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah, so..... that's another thing I wanted to ask
<didrocks> so we don't have commit corresponding to it
<Trevinho> since.... we should presever which one?
<Trevinho> we can decide which one of two being it
<Trevinho> maybe the one mergin in that case
<Trevinho> discarding the bzr one
<didrocks> on that one, I would put it on the merge commit
<didrocks> as it's the one which would work with gbp buildpackage
<Trevinho> I was also undecided about that
<didrocks> ofc, then people shouldn't rely that older commits will work with it: ubuntu/3.28.1-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> as it's debian/ only
<Trevinho> yep
<Trevinho> ok let me update those two tags then?
<didrocks> sure
<Trevinho> I can describe the extra steps I did then, it's nothing really time consuming and imho it keeps things nicely
<didrocks> ok, git blame is what I expect
<didrocks> let me finish reviewing
<didrocks> you didn't follow the import guide though :p
<didrocks> debian/control didn't udpate the Vcs tags
<didrocks> nor point to salsa one
<Trevinho> yes I did :o
<Trevinho> or maybe.... wait since I went back a few times in reflog
<didrocks> wait, my fault
<didrocks> let me reset :p
<didrocks> (navigating too much in history)
<Trevinho> I would have done that even without reading the guide though :D
<didrocks> no
<didrocks> at least, not on ubuntu-master
<didrocks> Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-shell/ubuntu
<didrocks> nothing git
<didrocks> or is it just my checkout?
<didrocks> and ubuntu/bionic didn't update debian/gbp.conf as in the guide :p
<didrocks> don't tell you followed it it's a step as well ;)
<seb128> good morning Trevinho, how are you?
<didrocks> 2. Update debian/gbp.conf to reference correct upstream gbp branch
<didrocks> # edit debian/gbp.conf and replace with '''upstream-branch=upstream/3.28.x'''
<didrocks> $ git commit -a
<Trevinho> hi seb128 all good, you?
<didrocks> and: Create a maintenance branch
<didrocks> section
<seb128> I'm good, thanks
<didrocks> and same Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-shell/ubuntu
<Trevinho> didrocks: how is that I've Vcs-git here? :o
<Trevinho> didrocks: 61f8b5c1dd6dc61f39b502a90a323c8bb5dc5c00
<didrocks> Trevinho: https://git.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/tree/debian/control.in?id=a119c39faac273282d1d2f88975dc1d82f8904cd#n58
<didrocks> well, launchpad agrees with me
<Trevinho> fckkk, I do to... as I change control, not contorl.in
<Trevinho> :)
<Trevinho> so i did it, but in the wrong path. I was sure about
<Trevinho> eh https://git.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/tree/debian/control
<Trevinho> :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: ok, so I suggest
<Trevinho> well I'll edit the commit no worries
<didrocks> edit the wiki to add those steps (or copy it)
<didrocks> then, redo frmo scratch to check the steps are working
<didrocks> and have a clean branch
<didrocks> don't create a maintainance branch yet as we didn't diverge
<didrocks> sounds good?
<Trevinho> ok
<didrocks> I don't really see the git blame benefits, but it seems it's not hurting anyway
<didrocks> which is what I care about :)
<didrocks> I don't think there is any impact on "Create a maintenance branch" section
<Trevinho> nope
<didrocks> so yeah, just copy "Convert a package to git for the first time from Debian"
<Trevinho> I mean what I've done puts itself into the wiki properly, it just imports stuff with metadata too
<didrocks> then, I'll make a diff to ahve a second look :)
<Trevinho> i'll add only a sub-section to that, ok? Like if there's an ubuntu bzr branch....
<didrocks> Trevinho: ah, with the extra steps, why notâ¦ well, add that as a step like "4" and "4.1", "4.2"â¦
<didrocks> but the most important is that you validate the changes, scratch your branch, and refollow the whole guide completely
<didrocks> Trevinho: bonus point if converting only requires git-bzr and not bzr itself :p
<Trevinho> ok, I was thinking on 4a, b,c but sure :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: on that one, I have no opinion :p
<Trevinho> didrocks: well, I've done with bzr itself as git-bzr isn't in the repo, right?
<didrocks> oh, it's not?
<Trevinho> apt search git-bzr has nothing
<didrocks> one sec
<didrocks> Trevinho: git-remote-bzr
<Trevinho> that's why I went with normal bzr, but we don't need much more there
<didrocks> this is what you need :)
<didrocks> then, it's simply git clone bzr::lp:~
<Trevinho> mh, I see, let me check how that behaves
<didrocks> ;)
<Trevinho> k, ok.... could be better
<didrocks> unsure it supports the operation you want
<didrocks> but supposively you can add a temporary remote you want to remove?
<Trevinho> mh, I can check, I can't just use that as a different remote I guess
<Trevinho> as it needs to be a differen tree
<Trevinho> but I can play with that again
<didrocks> Trevinho: yeah, just in caseâ¦ that will help if we automate part of it in the future
<didrocks> Trevinho: once done, just reping me, I'll check the changes to the wiki and your new fresh branch ;)
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok, thanks... I'll do that after lunch though
<didrocks> sure
<Trevinho> didrocks: yes, automating was my idea too....
<Trevinho> although there are some manual intervention or deicision to takes (whic I would have avoided, but... humans, you know!)
<didrocks> Trevinho: as long as you can describe them precisely in the wiki as a first stepâ¦
<Trevinho> k
<Trevinho> well I normlly write scripts first then i (maybe) document, but in this case I see the value :)
<didrocks> yeah, especially restarting from scratch
<didrocks> I quite simplified when doing it
<seb128> Trevinho, it starts feeling like that you are spending lot of efforts/time on something that isn't important and isn't going to be used/benefit to us much ... I know you like to do things nicely, but sometime perfect is the enemy of the good, isn't that the case here? shouldn't we stop the experiment there, declare that what others had is good enough and move back to do real work?
<Trevinho> seb128: well, it wasn't too time consuming, what took to me much was merging with debian (which is not something involving this, and that still we want to do next), I think we're done now in terms of things to do... I mean the process is defined. Need to note down ('ve already) and write in the wiki.
<Trevinho> once done that it will live alone
<Trevinho> and for who will do it again it will take few extra steps
<Trevinho> but yes, I agree this can't take longer than needed
<seb128> "can" tou mean ?
<Trevinho> I mean, it might have now, but once it's setup nope :)
<seb128> well, you wasted a few days fighting with vcs things, you need to redo some work still now
<seb128> you are also using some of didrocks' time for reviewing your work/pointing out the oversights/arguing etc
<seb128> which is fine, but meanwhile the .2 update is still not uploaded
<seb128> it should have been a week ago and would have been if we were no arguing over git details for days
<seb128> btw which is exactly why I didn't want that git conversion to start before the LTS :p
<ali1234> quick question about the dpkg locking email: does this mean i can run apt on the command line while eg synaptic is running (but not doing anything)?
<ali1234> and what does it mean for eg bootstrapping a chroot where i run "dpkg --configure -a" non-interactively from a script on the chroot?
<Laney> ali1234: you should probably ask that in #ubuntu-devel
<ali1234> oh right, i thought this was :)
<Trevinho> seb128: hehe, well git conversations are always intense :).
<Laney> we were doing OK up to now
<willcooke> night all o/
<Laney> TFW when you decide not to care about a corner case
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-21
<jamesh> robert_ancell: for the issue of gnome-software claiming to handle snap URIs on installs without the plugin, one option would be for it to install separate desktop files for each URI scheme handler (using NoDisplay=true so they don't clutter menus)
<jamesh> robert_ancell: that way the scheme handlers could be packaged with the plugins on distros that split it into multiple binary packages
<VoltronDikz> Hi guys. How yall doing?
<VoltronDikz> Quick question. I have a 18.04 iso.
<jamesh> oh?
<VoltronDikz> What am I running? kde, Gnome, ??? Am confused and trying to config some Icons but I can't find a way to do so.
<jamesh> VoltronDikz: the default desktop is GNOME 3 with an extension to show an icon dock on the left.
<jamesh> (basically to give something that should be familiar to both people coming from Unity 7 in previous releases, and people who have used other GNOME 3 based desktops)
<VoltronDikz> I am trying to resize (make way smaller) the icons on the center page when clicking show programs.
<VoltronDikz> I am not talking about the ICON DOCK.
<VoltronDikz> Could not find 1 good and simple way to resize and compact to have more apps showing.
<VoltronDikz> Anybody?
<jamesh> VoltronDikz: I don't know if there is a preference for that.  Maybe there is an extension that can help with that at https://extensions.gnome.org/ ?
<duflu> VoltronDikz, having fixed a bug in that area recently I think it is hard coded :(  But yes extensions can change some things that are otherwise hard coded
<duflu> (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/90)
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 90 in gnome-shell "Display full application names under their icons" (comments: 9) [Closed]
<duflu> Hmm, did I break my theming in cosmic or did an update?
<duflu> My fault. 'dconf reset -f /org/gnome/' to the rescue.
<VoltronDikz> duflu so basically no way to resize / schrink those icons in middle of screen right?
<duflu> VoltronDikz, it might be possible using an extension. Because the high-level design of the shell (and extensions) is all in JavaScript and it's easy to tinker. But no I can't find any proper configuration option
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<jibel> Good morning every one
<duflu> Morning jibel
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jamesh> hi didrocks, jibel
<didrocks> hey jamesh
<duflu> Oh, hi jamesh :)
<duflu> And hi bschaefer, seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Doing OK seb128. You?
<seb128> I'm fine, need some coffee though!
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks
<alexarnaud> Good morning all
<willcooke> morning
<thumper> morning willcooke
<willcooke> hey thumper, how goes?
<seb128> hey alexarnaud willcooke
<thumper> willcooke: pretty good
<thumper> as in I'm pretty good at procrastinating doing performance reviews
<willcooke> thumper, ha!  It does drag on.  Every year I say to myself "If I just made some notes once a month then reviews would be easy"
<willcooke> never happens
<thumper> hah
<thumper> yeah
<didrocks> hey willcooke, thumper
<thumper> o/ didrocks, seb128
<Laney> hey
<didrocks> morning Laney
<didrocks> thumper: nice tweet! +1
<didrocks> (pun intended)
<thumper> hah
 * thumper is going through CVs again
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> Evening thumper
<duflu> Morning Laney
<thumper> o/ duflu
<Laney> happy solstice
<seb128> hey Laney, ah indeed, happy summer day!
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> look at it negatively - all downhill from here towards winter
 * duflu looks uphill
<seb128> and winter is not downhill, it's time to drink hot beverages next to the fire
<seb128> which is nice as well :)
<Laney> damn it
<Laney> you win this one, positivitiy
<duflu> That's true. It's interesting Europeans celebrate winter outdoors more than those of us with warmer winters
<duflu> indoors and outdoors
<duflu> markets and all
<Laney> need less incentive to get people to go out?
<willcooke> 186 days to Christmas
<Laney> that sound quite short
<Laney> better get shopping
<xnox> willcooke, Iâ¤ð
<willcooke> :DD
<Laney> tjaalton: do you like https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/VPjjHq2Qcy/ ?
<Laney> just been reviewing that for Marco, seems good to me, if you like it I'll upload to the silo
<Laney> & for the SRUs with adjusted versions
<tjaalton> Laney: yep, looks good to me
<Laney> ð
<tjaalton> I'll commit it to diff
<tjaalton> err
<tjaalton> git
<Laney> thx
<Laney> I can make branches if that's good for you
<tjaalton> sure
<tjaalton> could migrate that out of salsa
<Laney> no bother to me
<Laney> gimme a bit, will put up MRs
<seb128> Nafallo, could you reply on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-online-accounts/+bug/1773213 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1773213 in gnome-online-accounts (Ubuntu Bionic) "U1 login dialog missing link to the privacy policy" [High,Fix committed]
<Nafallo> seb128: sure.
<seb128> thx
<Nafallo> I thought that was obvious... but yeah :-P
<Nafallo> seb128: morning btw ;-)
<seb128> good morning indeed :)
<seb128> I think the SRU team started requesting the version because some users did test wrong versions and gave confusing feedback about fixes not working
<seb128> it makes easier to tell them "no, you are not using the SRU version" :)
<Nafallo> oooh. lastpass-cli finally landed in -updates.
<Nafallo> my first upload in YEARS accepted :-)
<seb128> jibel, looks like robert_ancell update bug #1768744 so maybe you can verify that one now?
<seb128> Nafallo, congrats :)
<ubot5> bug 1768744 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu Bionic) "Crash when unable to get installed snaps" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768744
<seb128> jibel, bug #1766277 updated as well if you can test
<ubot5> bug 1766277 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu Bionic) "Ubuntu changes graphic is not translatable" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766277
<Laney> aha
<Mirv> I updated ubuntu-software on my xenial work laptop and at least now it crashes every time on startup for me personally (sorry, not sure what was the situation earlier, I usually use synaptic but decided to try gnome-software now after I saw it updated). if you have the permission, you should quickly check if it seems worrying at https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/b1fd9ff8-7549-11e8-bea3-fa163eec78fa (I
<Mirv> don't have permission)
<Mirv> would ping robert_ancell but he's not around atm
<Mirv> I did reboot too
<jibel> seb128, sure thing. I'll finish the verification.
<Laney> tjaalton: https://salsa.debian.org/laney/xorg.git ubuntu ubuntu-xenial ubuntu-artful ubuntu-bionic
<Laney> I couldn't find a commit that matched what's in artful atm so I made one up
<tjaalton> Laney: ah, I assumed you'd have created them on lp :P but this works too
<Laney> nice fork button on salsa :P
 * Laney checks debdiffs and then uploads to the silo
<willcooke> Mirv, thanks for the info.  Seems to work fine on a Xenial VM, so I don't think it's a huge issue, but I'll email Robert and get him to check oit
<willcooke> it
<Laney> (force pushed again to move an echo)
<tjaalton> Laney: oh, looks like I have ubuntu-artful locally.. anyway, did you create a merge request?
<Trevinho> Laney: as per "local", I knew about... But, it's also true that debian' sh supports it and that many debian scripts use it. Including the ones mentioned in the debian wiki I was using before for removing the conffiles, so I decided to keep it
<Trevinho> grep "local " /var/lib/dpkg/info/* | wc -l => 380
<Trevinho> here
<seb128> willcooke, Mirv, that looks like the same than https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=974806 which was fixed upstream in 2016 but not in the 3.20 serie
<ubot5> bugzilla.opensuse.org bug 974806 in GNOME "Gnome-software crashes every time (after enabling of a certain obs repository)" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> there are 3k reports of that issue on 16.04 which is not very high
<seb128> the e.u.c report also suggests it's indeed fixed in > 3.20
<seb128> jibel, thanks for the gnome-software SRU verifications!
<Laney> tjaalton: nah, do you want one? I was hoping you'd just pull my branches :P
<seb128> tjaalton, I guess fixing the libinput build is on your todolist? it seems that the .symbols needs and update which should be easy?
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, what's the status of gnome-shell 3.28.2?
<Trevinho> seb128: it's waiting review
<seb128> where and who did you ask about reviewing it?
<Trevinho> https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+git/gnome-shell/
<Trevinho> didrocks is going to take that
<seb128> Trevinho, what about the bionic SRU?
<Trevinho> seb128: didrocks was saying that we'll just sync them
<Trevinho> as there's no actual fork in between the two
<seb128> sync?
<Trevinho> so far
<seb128> ah
<Trevinho> I mean push that one on bionic too
<Trevinho> without branching
<Trevinho> I did a bionic branch first, but so we decided
<seb128> Marco, marco, maaarrccooo
<Trevinho> what?
<seb128> Trevinho, none of the bugs listed in the changelog are SRU compliant atm, some have testcases but they all need proper "impact/test case/regression potential" sections
<seb128> also some of the cherry pick have no bugs associated
<didrocks> well, to be exact, I'm waiting for the latest correct edits on the wiki page
<seb128> unsure the SRU team is going to like that
<didrocks> then, replay on nautilus
<didrocks> then replay on the gnome-shell branch
<didrocks> and I can review
<seb128> nautilus?
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> why is nautilus blocked our gnome-shell SRU?
<didrocks> because there is the case that wasn't taken if we merge bzr branch
 * seb128 got lost
<didrocks> I want the instructions to be correct
<didrocks> right now, they aren't
<didrocks> because there are cases you have unreleased commits in bzr
<seb128> k, I get that part
<didrocks> which wasn't taken into account and may impact the import procedure
<seb128> is nautilus another SRU/discussion?
<seb128> with similar issues
<seb128> sorry I just got lost :p
<Trevinho> seb128: bugs, I'm updating them once we are ok wit the review, I won't do that earlier
<didrocks> *shrugh* basically, right now, it's now pending on me
<didrocks> contrary to what was left thinking to you
<didrocks> I'm only talking about the git branch
<seb128> Trevinho, maybe linking that update/SRU to the git conversion wasn't a smart idea
<seb128> Trevinho, we are delaying fixes by weeks just because internal workflow issues
<seb128> we should have done them with the etablished tools
<seb128> out of the way
<seb128> then iterated with the vcs and tweaks when there was no real world issues being taken hostage
<Trevinho> seb128: eh, well it would have come one day or another...
<seb128> Trevinho, read what I wrote?
<seb128> it can come
<seb128> not delay LTS fixes
<seb128> come on, you can agree it makes sense to not delay fixes when we can land the SRU and then deal with the vcs problems no?
<Trevinho> it wasn't my expectation
<seb128> rather than the other way around
<Trevinho> yeah, sure...
<Trevinho> didrocks: can we move on with gnome-shell itself first? As that is following anyway the process already. So we can start with the content first. Then update the others
<didrocks> Trevinho: have you changed the tag and commit message?
<didrocks> I doubt, the branch hasn't been updated for 15h
<Trevinho> tag was there
<didrocks> commit message? and you redid with our latest changes?
<didrocks> because the "it shouldn't imapct", remember that you thought that in the order you wrote for replaying the history :p
<didrocks> so theory is nice
<didrocks> checking with following the steps is better
<didrocks> as seb128 told anyway, no bug is SRU compliant, so, as a first step, they should be converted
<seb128> Trevinho, right, no reason that the bugs need to come after the Vcs is ready
<didrocks> if you want to unrelate the 2, get a .dsc ready for cosmic and bionic
<didrocks> get that sponsored
<didrocks> then, you can replay that with commits in the Vcs
<didrocks> you can even add them to the bzr VCS to test your conversion :p
<Trevinho> this is just a bit loosing time
<didrocks> all those bzr history change is a lost of time IMHO
<seb128> you mean that week wasted on trying to deal with Vcs tweaks?
<didrocks> but I've already stated that and didn't convince you apparently
<Trevinho> it's not the only thing I'm doing, but I want to follow things in a logical order that allows to keep what we did. But anyway, the process itself it's not lost time imho. it's more going back and forth on bzr stuff again when a branch is ready and we can work on that, if content needs fixes
<Trevinho> also, on mutter side... I prepared also a branch, but in that case we can be in sync with debian.. So can we do that? Our *ubuntu* package is just a change of mine which is already in debian anyway
<Trevinho> anyway, i can update the bzr too if you want, since anyway having the git branch around helps in having that quickly too
<Trevinho> seb128: and bugs, I checked again all the ones I cherry-picked from upstream  are in gnome-2-28 branch so will be next .3. Then there ar two patches which have no unbutu bug attached, should I create them? As they are already upstream, so I though it was something not eneded
<Laney> you don't need explicit SRU verification for patches coming from the point release
<Laney> for cherry picks or downstream patches, you do
<Laney> (that's a gnome specific policy)
<Trevinho> "SRU verification for patches coming from the point release" so this doesn't applies to point-release-branches?
<Laney> no
<Laney> that combination hasn't been blessed by upstream yet
<Laney> so we need to test it
<Trevinho> mh, I see
<Trevinho> let me decide weather drop them or not then
<Laney> it's OK to include them, they just need a proper SRU bug
<Trevinho> yes, sure
<Trevinho> that's the thing, I want to see that
<Laney> in terms of workflow arguments
<seb128> Trevinho, what Iain said
<Laney> didrock_s or whoever is sponsoring can build the dsc out of git currently and sponsor it as if it has no VCS for now
<Laney> then if there's any delta required that can be resolved as another commit
<Laney> like sidestep the argument to get the upload done
<Laney> without having to go redo on bzr or whatever
<Trevinho> yeah, that would be the way... And since I can't do that, it's not something I can go forward.. It's up to one of you guys to pick the content, review and push to ubuntu, as it's a step I can't do. And vcs could or could not match it.
<seb128> Laney, if that doesn't get sorted out tomorrow then the SRU might be a good thing for you and Marco to resolve at the sun sprint :)
<Trevinho> I mean I got the content ready quickly, true that i invested some time in the infrastructure too, but it's something I care, and that didn't cause the content to differ.
<Trevinho> "content" as debian/*
<Trevinho> and that was pushed last friday
<Laney> seb128: Not sure I could help any more than didrock____s  who already has the context on this, but OK if necessary ...
<seb128> Laney, Didier has been reviewing the git side, he didn't look at it from a SRU perspective from what he said
<seb128> or sponsoring
<Laney> it was going to be him and Olivier working on it originally
<Laney> before all this business
<Laney> anyway whatever, but it's probably not going to be tomorrow for me
<seb128> right
<seb128> no worry
<didrocks> right, then, trevhino told he has done it :p
<didrocks> which is where the delay started
<didrocks> I can have a look tomorrow at it, not today for sure
<seb128> well, let's see if Didier feels like doing the sponsoring this week, if not we can see on monday who feels like doing it
<didrocks> if the bug follow the SRU process at least
<Laney> yeah sry, I thought you were signed up to review the SRU too, maybe my mistake
<seb128> didrocks, Laney, Trevinho, thanks guys :)
 * seb128 steps out for a bit
<seb128> bbl
<Trevinho> ok, I've also go to buy stuff
<didrocks> Trevinho: so, let's forget about the git side, ensure all bugs follow SRU and email me/share with me a debdiff for cosmic and bionic
<Trevinho> it looks like you guys don't need anything special as there was nothing more in the shopping list, right (Laney,seb128)?
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok, I mean if you've time check also the git side of things, but no need to hurry for that
<didrocks> Trevinho: I will as said once you have replayed all steps on a new virgin branch
<didrocks> to ensure nothing is missing
<didrocks> and that it has enw commit messages
<didrocks> (which isn't the case right now)
<didrocks> Trevinho: so, if the branch is ready for tomorrow, for both cosmic and bionic, this is enough
<Trevinho> didrocks: it was a virgin one the one where I replayed all the things.... It was last night though
<Trevinho> should I do that again for real? Not that it would take time, but it's just the same :)
<didrocks> Trevinho: it won't be the same, we changed at least the commit message, didn't we?
<didrocks> as told for the 3rd time here
<Trevinho> well, that is just an amend xD
<Trevinho> or rebase
<didrocks> ah, you didn't change it
<didrocks> despite my suggestion :/
<didrocks> yeah, but I want to replay as we reshuffled
<didrocks> please take my suggestion about changing the commit message into account
<didrocks> "debian subtree" is confusing and undeed, just change it by "branch"
<didrocks> uneeded
<Trevinho> didrocks: didn't I on the wiki? :o
<didrocks> or my F5 is broken
<didrocks> git commit -m "Importing lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu debian subtree"
<didrocks> this is what I still see
 * didrocks hopes everyone will run git gc --aggressive on branches and not miss that step, or the git clone will take forever for everyone
<Trevinho> --agressive!
<didrocks> Trevinho: there is no -a to add to that commit?
<didrocks> git read-tree won't restore debian/ dir?
<didrocks> so you need to restage them, correct?
<Trevinho> no, theres' no need for that
<Trevinho> git read-tree will do it
<didrocks> didn't know it was staging them
<Trevinho> didrocks: wasn't "Importing lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu debian subtree" the one you proposed?
<didrocks> ah right, I was puzzled by the second discussion about 7.
<Trevinho> eh, see :D
<didrocks> what do you think about changing debian subtree by "branch"?
<didrocks> in the whole document
<Trevinho> ok that's fine too
<Trevinho> I mean no to be too technical
<Trevinho> eventuall it's not needed to konw that
<Trevinho> know*
<Trevinho> ok branch it is now
<didrocks> can I f5?
<Trevinho> if it works :-D
 * didrocks tries this intriguing tech
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> 7. Modify or create gbp.conf containing:
<didrocks> then 7a if youâ¦
<didrocks> this is not what we discussed?
<didrocks> I think we should have: 8. If you imported bzr ubuntu history
<didrocks> 8a. If you add pending changes in bzr after release:
<didrocks> 8b. Remove the temporary ubuntu-bzr remote
<Trevinho> ah, it was misleading the log
<didrocks> yeah, only spotted it in seeing the whole page as well
<didrocks> but clearly, step 4 and 8 now are "if you want to import bzr history"
<didrocks> (then we have 4a, 4bâ¦4f and 8a, 8b)
<Trevinho> k
<didrocks> "and I hope you did"
<didrocks> as told, I tried to remove all "I" in tech docs and personal opinions :p
<Trevinho> irc reviews are the worst thing in the world :-D
<didrocks> that was on the logs ;)
<didrocks> yeah, should be an etherpad
<Trevinho> yes, but we talk a lot :-D
<Trevinho> I mean it's a wiki already
<didrocks> yeah, but no parallel writes/comments
<Trevinho> you can fix things too as in writing is normally faster than at 4 hands
<Trevinho> yep, etherpad next time
<didrocks> but there are locksâ¦
<didrocks> and TBH, you wanted to have those steps
<Trevinho> I know , i know
<didrocks> unfair to ask other to fix them afterwards
<Trevinho> the wording I mean
<didrocks> so, once done
<didrocks> really, reprepare a gnome-shell to valid all steps once again
<didrocks> (you have no idea how many times I did previously for g-c-c, to revalidate I didn't miss anything)
<didrocks> and create a maintenance branch for bionic (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/git#Create_a_maintenance_branch)
<didrocks> then, I'll review that
<didrocks> sounds ok?
<Trevinho> ah, so you want the bionic now?
<Trevinho> k
<didrocks> well
<didrocks> as we are going to upload
<Trevinho> we're not goiung to diverge yet
<Trevinho> yeah that was my point
<Trevinho> of having different changelogs
<didrocks> yes, but SRU team won't copy your pacakge
<didrocks> so, we need to have different changelog
<didrocks> prepare master for the cosmic upoad
<didrocks> prepare master for the cosmic upload
<Trevinho> I'll do a debdiff first though
<didrocks> then I would say branch with commit -1
<didrocks> change gbp.conf
<didrocks> as in the wiki
<didrocks> for bionic
<Trevinho> yeah, I read
<didrocks> I'll review them tomorrow
<Trevinho> good
<didrocks> so if redoing the branches is faster for you than the debdiff, don't bother
<Trevinho> well, should be the same
<Trevinho> but if we can i'd prefer to do one time only
<Trevinho> if you're checking those tomorrow anyway I'm doing this later though
<Trevinho> or shops will close
<Trevinho> otherwise I can do it now, if you're not leaving (but  i guess it's time for you)
<didrocks> I'm going to step out before the GNOME board meeting
<didrocks> extra special meeting, thinking my time was almost over with one evening meeting, but no, a second special one, last minute surprise! :)
<didrocks> so, TBH, I will just attend that meeting now and sign off ;)
<Trevinho> :)
<Trevinho> k
<Trevinho> so i can send you this so you look at it tomorrow I guess
<didrocks> yes! :)
<seb128> Trevinho, @shopping, I don't, thanks for asking :)
<Trevinho> we'd have to go buy stuff anyway during the week maybe
<Trevinho> but dinners will be out I guess
<Laney> Trevinho: sous vide!
<Laney> https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/SystemdUser
<Laney> going to start filling that table out tomorrow
<Laney> probably won't be online first thing in the morning, going to be heading to the train
<Mirv> seb128: willcooke: right, thanks, so not a new bug, I'm just hitting it
<seb128> Laney, nice, happy train journey :)
<willcooke> night all
<Trevinho> Laney: I've everything for it... We'll just buy the meat the same day
<tjaalton> seb128: huh, somehow built fine here, dpkg-gensymbols only warned about the new symbols
<tjaalton> I'll bump it to 1.11.1 too
<tjaalton> Laney: well, it's a one click operation to ack (fast-forward) merge requests
<tjaalton> but sure, I'll add a new remote ;)
<seb128> tjaalton, unsure what's different about the buildd env, but it failed in Debian and Ubuntu ... thanks for fixing :)
<tjaalton> yeah I've poked folks to tell me what's wrong :)
<seb128> tjaalton, do you plan to SRU some 1.10 update? or maybe directly 1.11?
<tjaalton> the last 1.10.x maybe
<tjaalton> 1.11 changes things too much for sru I think
<seb128> k, makes sense
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-22
<duflu> Woo, libinput 1.11 hit cosmic a couple of minutes ago
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<doko> please see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libayatana-appindicator/+bug/1770146, missing bug subscriber
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1770146 in libayatana-appindicator (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libayatana-appindicator" [Low,New]
<didrocks> LocutusOfBorg: ^ (I don't know if you discussed that with us and missed the discussion. Also "just look at -proposed" shuold rather tell explicitely what depends on it in the bug description rationale
<youpi> Trevinho, andyrock: Hello, I'm wondering how compiz is going, I have not seen activity for some months?
<duflu> youpi, we are focusing on Gnome Shell and Mutter. Compiz would only get bug fixes at most
<duflu> Even then, less than it used to
<youpi> err, so it's an abandonware?
<youpi> should we reorient our development on the compiz-reloaded project?
<duflu> youpi, it's not part of the default session in Ubuntu 17.10 and later. But it is still part of Ubuntu that you can install, and technically supported
<youpi> well, ok, but it still means that contributions won't get in
<youpi> which means the death of the software
<youpi> the only way I see for us is then to fork it, to be able to continue development
<youpi> but that'd be a pity to not just continue the development on the existing branch
<duflu> youpi, I think it was already forked a couple of years ago. You might want to check that out
<youpi> that's probably compiz-reloaded you are referring to
<youpi> I'm really unsure about it
<youpi> they seem to be alergic to C++ code
<youpi> and the project is not so much alive
<youpi> I can understand that ubuntu does not wish to continue to develop it
<youpi> but the least to be done then is to hand over the keys to people who cish to...
<youpi> s/cish/wish
<willcooke> morning
<duflu> Good morning willcooke
<duflu> willcooke, I've been hinting people should move any incomplete stuff out of the 18.04 board. Not sure if you or seb want to do that at some point, or ask the affected people?
<duflu> Where "move" means move to 18.10 or just archive/delete
<willcooke> thanks duflu, I'll take a look through later on a chase people
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> moin from de trein
<duflu> Hi mobile Laney
<Laney> hey duflu
<Laney> you well?
<duflu> Laney, yes. Getting on top of merge requests and weekend pending. You?
<seb128> Laney, hey, on your way to the sun? ;)
<Laney> duflu: I'm struggling to push bits, but otherwise happy!
<Laney> hey seb128, yep, when do you leave?
<seb128> Laney, late, my plane is at 9pm so I need to take the train a bit before 7pm here
<Laney> ah nice, full day at home
<seb128> yes, I'm not complaining, I can mostly have a normal day
<seb128> even pick up the kid and spend some time with them after work before leaving
<Laney> :3
<seb128> seems like the weather is trying to make things work out for Trevinho, it's raining today in Florence but tomorrow is 27Â°C sunny
<alexarnaud> Hello all
<seb128> hey alexarnaud
<duflu> Happy libinput-1.11-is-finally-in-Ubuntu
<duflu> day
<seb128> thanks for fixing the build & doing the update tjaalton!
<tjaalton> thanks for the ping about it ftbfs..
<andyrock> youpi: in the last few months Trevinho took care of reviewing and merging compiz MP
<andyrock> youpi: but yes, in genereal we're not very much looking into them
<andyrock> youpi: what do you need?
<alexarnaud> andyrock: Review or right access for accessibility modules of Compiz
<alexarnaud> andyrock: I'm using them everyday to be able to use my computer, from a user perspective, the dev mades by youpi are really good. It should be also the same for the code he has take care of all your comments.
<alexarnaud> (I'm working with youpi at Hypra, I'm visual-impaired and project-manager for this part)
<andyrock> let's wait for Trevinho to be around and discuss how to improve the current situation
<alexarnaud> OK, we're waiting the Trevinho feedback so :).
 * didrocks waits on Trevhino to signal "ready for review" :p
<alexarnaud> andyrock: the most important PR is this one : https://code.launchpad.net/~samuel-thibault/compiz/ezoom_focus_tracking/+merge/345941
<alexarnaud> In term of code and feature improvement for the UX
<alexarnaud> It's fundamental to have focus tracking for screen magnifier.
<andyrock> alexarnaud: first thing you usually open a bug and attach it to the MP
<andyrock> alexarnaud: otherwise it's hard to get what's the current problem
<alexarnaud> andyrock: There is already a bug for this feature open for a while.
<andyrock> i don't see it attached to https://code.launchpad.net/~samuel-thibault/compiz/ezoom_focus_tracking/+merge/345941
<alexarnaud> https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/727290
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 727290 in Compiz "Allow enhanced zoom to follow text." [Wishlist,In progress]
<alexarnaud> It should be indeed, youpi do you think you could attach it ?
<andyrock> alexarnaud: sure thing
<alexarnaud> andyrock: It should be linked right now
<andyrock> alexarnaud: so next week  I'm going to sprint with Trevinho and others
<Trevinho> andyrock: I was there sorry, missed the pings
<andyrock> alexarnaud: and we can take a look into it
<alexarnaud> :)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, week a bit unstable compared to the ones we just had (I didn't see  a single drop, and always sunny, but... you know).
<alexarnaud> Let us know and don't hesitate to ping youpi if needed, he is the only one that could answer technical question, I could answer QA question.
<didrocks> Trevinho: hey! I'm pretty sure yesterday I suggested s/debian subtree/branch and not "debian branch"
<didrocks> it may it sounded like if we imported a bzr imported debian branch of a package
<didrocks> and you put again new branch names with ` ` instead ''' :/
<didrocks> saving it before as `ubuntu/bzr-last-release`
<didrocks> you should do a global search :p
<didrocks> ah, no, discare, that one is a tag
 * didrocks hates the mix of / used in branch name introduced by DEP14, so confusing
<didrocks> (and tags)
<didrocks> but yeah, my comment on commit stands :p
<andyrock> alexarnaud: kk
<Trevinho> didrocks: I might have misunderstood this then
<Trevinho> 17:52:23 <didrocks> what do you think about changing debian subtree by "branch"?
<didrocks> Trevinho: yeah, changing "debian subtree" by "branch"
<didrocks> as it's not a debian branch
<Trevinho> didrocks: I took it the other way around then :)
<Trevinho> as I set it as subtree initially, so I was confused
<Trevinho> and as for ubuntu/bzr-last-release is indeed a tag, thus not the '''
<didrocks> sorry for the misunderstanding, but changing it?
<didrocks> yeah, I really dislike those namings for tags/local branch but nothing we can do about them :/
<didrocks> Trevinho: then, just commit --amend this time if you reprepared the branch already from scratch and it's working
<didrocks> and tell me once ready for review :p
<Trevinho> didrocks: if there's something better comign to your miind, feel free to share
<Trevinho> git commit -m "Importing lp:~ubuntu-desktop/$project/ubuntu debian subtree" will be right?
<didrocks> no
<didrocks> s/debian subtree/branch, simply ;)
<didrocks> git commit -m "Importing lp:~ubuntu-desktop/$project/ubuntu branch"
<Trevinho> only branch... ok. now is clear. xD
<didrocks> ;)
<Trevinho> as I changed subtree in branch then again in debian brnch, so wasn't with debian :)
<Trevinho> inword diffs
<didrocks> keep me posted once I can review the repo
<Trevinho> as "our debian" maybe? xD
<Trevinho> I mean it could not clear where we import
<didrocks> well, it may sounded like if we cloned debian in launchpad
<didrocks> which isn't the case
<didrocks> well, we already link to what we import
<didrocks> so it's clear
<didrocks> and finish by /ubuntu
<didrocks> so either nothing: git commit -m "Importing lp:~ubuntu-desktop/$project/ubuntu"
<didrocks> or git commit -m "Importing lp:~ubuntu-desktop/$project/ubuntu branch"
<Trevinho> I'd get rid of branch at all
<didrocks> no strong opinion between the 2
<Trevinho> simple, removed any specification
<didrocks> ok, tell me once I can review git, the wiki looks ok
<Trevinho> ok, soooo... wiki is updated
<Trevinho> git, give me a moment that I want to address some nux stuff first
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> you've already redone yesterday all the steps?
<didrocks> to ensure that we are good
<Trevinho> didrocks: yep, and applied somewhere else.
<Trevinho> I'm also doing another thing I'll show you later
<didrocks> great ;)
<didrocks> once done, please have a look at nautilus with extra commits so that we can as well validate that use case
<Laney> ah, tethering works here ;-)
<LocutusOfBorg> folks, anybody wants to subscribe here?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libayatana-appindicator/+bug/1770146 :)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1770146 in libayatana-appindicator (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libayatana-appindicator" [High,Incomplete]
<LocutusOfBorg> main is moving away from the old indicator, and also universe is switch to the better maintained ayatana fork (also debian)
 * Trevinho dives into the sun sprint!
<Trevinho> :)
<Laney> LocutusOfBorg: I think seb128 is somewhat opposed to this
<Laney> you better bring this up on monday morning
 * kenvandine heads out, have a great weekend everyone!
<willcooke> night all.  Happy travels to those of you sprinting
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-17
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<jibel> hi all
<didrocks> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, jibel
<duflu> Hi jibel and oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Wimpress> o/
<duflu>       \o
<jamesh> Wimpress: had fun in Montreal?
<Wimpress> Yep, was the most successful Snapcraft Summit so far.
<Wimpress> I'll be sending a summary out later.
<jamesh> It's lucky they didn't send you there during the winter :-)
<Wimpress> Used to work in Montreal quite a bit. I am familiar with the winter climate there âï¸ð
<didrocks> hey Wimpress, jamesh
<Trevinho> morning guys!
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<duflu> Hello euro-Trevinho
<duflu> ðªðº
<Trevinho> duflu and didrocks: hey :-)
<Trevinho> lovely flag
<marcustomlinson> morning all. Happy Fathers day to all the dads
<marcustomlinson> or happy belated fathers day rather
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson ;)
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey there, good morning desktopers :-)
<didrocks> hey willcooke seb128, good week-end?
<willcooke> hi seb128, hi didrocks.
<seb128> lut didrocks, ouais, nickel, et toi ?
<duflu> Morning willcooke and seb128
<seb128> spent the week/w.e in France, we drove back yesterday
<willcooke> didrocks, not too bad.  Kids party yesterday, always fun.  How about you?
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<didrocks> plus court, mais bien :)
<seb128> the kid didn't sleep at first in the car but decided that 6pm was a good nap time, then didn't sleep enough, was angry but didn't want to go to bed in the evening and wouldn't want to get out of bed this morning!
<seb128> hey duflu willcooke
<seb128> thanks to whoever synced pygtk for me, it was stil not published on wednesday evening
<seb128> I guess L_aney :)
<marcustomlinson> morning didrocks duflu willcooke seb128
<willcooke> hi marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson
<Trevinho> hi seb128!
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you! back to european tz? ;)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, I'm in the sun sprint place so, here I can enjoy mornings more :)
<seb128> ah, nice!
<seb128> enjoy!
<Trevinho> seb128: ah maybe you can review https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gnome-shell/merge_requests/23/
<seb128> Trevinho, k, I'm adding to my todolist :-)
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, well done on the SRU for bug #1798074
<ubot5> bug 1798074 in libreoffice-l10n (Ubuntu Bionic) "LIbreoffice crashes on startup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798074
<marcustomlinson> thanks :)
<marcustomlinson> vorlon sent the bionic one to the back of the queue though unfortunately as libreoffice-l10n was built with the wrong -v option apparently
<marcustomlinson> Not a biggy, he fixed it, but yeah, will have to make it's way through the queue again
<jamesh> On a scale of 1 to 10, how crazy would it be to try and move Xenial over to having the D-Bus session bus started by systemd?
<didrocks> seb128: any chance of looking at grubzfs-testsuite? I have a new upload ready (but would prefer to have that separated) now that zfs-linux and our grub changes are entering the distro
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, it's on my list for today, I didn't get to it previous week since I was off thursday/friday, sorry for the delay
<didrocks> np
<lis> Laney: hey :)   lemme know if/how i can help validate the SRU
<lis> seb128, didrocks, Trevinho: hi hi :)
<didrocks> hey lis ;)
<willcooke> jamesh, sounds like a L_aney question.  He's back tomorrow
<seb128> hey lis! L_aney is off today
<jamesh> willcooke: I hope the answer is "that's a batshit crazy idea that we'll never do"
<lis> good to know :)
<seb128> lis, but SRU verifications are easy, it's basically "install the package, follow the testcase, comment/tag the bug"
<willcooke> jamesh, I think you're probably on the money there
<lis> seb128: dunno where to find the package lol
<seb128> lis, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html has the pointers to uploads/bugs
<seb128> willcooke, jamesh, I would stay away from doing such changes to xenial
<lis> seb128: ya.  that's where i looked, but the glib sru mentioned in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1832457 doesn't seem to be there
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1832457 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Disco) "[SRU] 2.60.4" [Undecided,In progress]
<seb128> I don't like the idea to do complex changes there, it's risky and probably not the best serie to spend efforts on
<seb128> lis, ah, that's because it hasn't been reviewed/approved by the SRU team yet, they will comment on the bug when that happens
<seb128> it's still in the review queue
<lis> lovely.  i'll take a break, then :)
<jamesh> seb128: this is the context: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/a-user-session-agent-for-snapd/11426/7
 * lis never understood this packaging stuff, even when she was working here
<seb128> jamesh, right, I wonder if xenial has much desktop snaps users
<seb128> well, I would stay away from a such changes
<seb128> we every now and then get reports from xenial users who install dbus-user-session and get e.g their gnome-keyring screwed
<seb128> so for sure it would require work
<jamesh> seb128: I implemented something that works on Xenial without any workarounds.  What they're asking for would require the changes to how the session bus is launched.
<seb128> bug #1689825
<ubot5> bug 1689825 in dbus (Ubuntu) "gnome-keyring not unlocked on xenial when dbus-user-session is installed" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689825
<seb128> jamesh, tell them it's a not go and they should take your other solution :)
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, I forgot in 0.2 to update with the vendor directory content in debian/copyright. Here is the commit with the update: https://github.com/ubuntu/grubzfs-testsuite/commit/cea44e576e114fc7415a0959971d1079fa2e583c. I want to include it in 0.3 (updating once grub2 is in release pocket), so the upload should be quickly after 0.2 in grubzfs-testsuite.
<seb128> didrocks, k
<willcooke> g'night all
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: your latest changes to snap-store actually failed to build
<kenvandine> meson.build:1:0: ERROR:  Meson version is 0.47.0 but project requires >=0.50.0.
<kenvandine> from https://launchpadlibrarian.net/428871714/buildlog_snap_ubuntu_bionic_amd64_snap-store_BUILDING.txt.gz
 * kenvandine fixes
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: fixed
<kenvandine> the libxmlb submodule had bumped the meson version
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, ah, thanks.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, does the meson plugin pull in different build packages?
<kenvandine> It doesn't use the packaged version if you specify the version
<kenvandine> otherwise it will get the meson package from bionic
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, nice that it does the work for you - In some snaps I've been working on I thought I'd have to rely on older versions.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, are you still going to pull out the headers and .pc files? I couldn't work out the snapcraft magic to do tht.
<kenvandine> i did that already
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, oh, what was the commit?
<kenvandine> 640771e4d0171a8caffaed6d59593f3223c2eab1
<robert_ancell> ta
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, is the candidate snap-store failing to launch for you?
<kenvandine> It was working fine for me an hour ago
<kenvandine> Not at a computer now though
<robert_ancell> oh, it was trying to contact an already running version.
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, that was evince that was triggering the permission issues right? It's not showing here (snap-store candidate, stable evince)
<kenvandine> It was evince
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-18
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> didrocks, do you use Nvidia by any chance?
<duflu> I need to check what other /devices other Nvidia machines have
<jibel> hi all
<jibel> duflu, I do what do you need?
<duflu> jibel, can you please tell me the driver version, what /dev/nv* you have and what kernel command line you use? :)
<duflu> Also good morning
<jibel> $ ls /dev/nv*
<jibel> /dev/nvidia0  /dev/nvidiactl  /dev/nvidia-modeset  /dev/nvidia-uvm  /dev/nvidia-uvm-tools  /dev/nvme0  /dev/nvme0n1  /dev/nvme0n1p1  /dev/nvme0n1p2
<jibel> you can ignore nvme*
<jibel> $ cat /proc/cmdline
<jibel> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.0.0-16-generic root=UUID=fb5bb713-8b3f-4979-ab03-db3bb9c5ec45 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1
<jibel> duflu, ^
<duflu> jibel, thanks. That's what I thought. Unfortunately a couple of the devices don't appear till late :/
<didrocks> duflu: I have an intel/nvidia card, indeed
<didrocks> /dev/nvidia0  /dev/nvidiactl  /dev/nvidia-modeset  /dev/nvidia-uvm  /dev/nvidia-uvm-tools
<didrocks> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-5.0.0-16-generic root=UUID=699713f7-86ae-4f11-a032-be77e24bd4e1 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1
<duflu> Thanks. Unfortunately the dev list is different during boot
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hi duflu
<Wimpress> o/
<oSoMoN> hey Wimpress
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<didrocks> morning Wimpress
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Hi Wimpress
<duflu>      \â
<marcustomlinson> morning WimoSoflubelrocks
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson
<duflu> Erm, hi marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> :)
<willcooke> moin
<Laney> moin
<duflu> Morning willcooke and Laney
<didrocks> hey willcooke, Laney
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney, how is u.k today?
<seb128> Laney, had a nice long w.e?
<seb128> hey again other desktopers :)
<oSoMoN> hey seb128
<oSoMoN> morning willcooke, Laney
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<Laney> hey duflu didrocks seb128 oSoMoN
<willcooke> seb128, the sun is out, but thunderstorms forecast
<seb128> Ã§a va !
<marcustomlinson> morning willaney128
<oSoMoN> seb128, Ã§a va, et toi?
<Laney> weekend was very good yes!
<seb128> nice
<Laney> lots of being a pirate
<seb128> oSoMoN, Ã§a va bien :)
<seb128> Laney, did you drink rhum on a boat and found treasures? ;)
<Laney> yep, we plundered the spanish fleet
<willcooke> :DD
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson
<Laney> basically it was about 20 pubs with different groups in them
<Laney> and lots and LOTS of buskers, including us
<oSoMoN> sounds fun!
<seb128> indeed :)
<lis> good morning everyone :)
<seb128> didrocks, I don't remember the details, but the preference with go is to bundle depends rather than using a proper depends system? those vendors dir with the world dumped in it makes reviewing tedious :-/
<didrocks> seb128: yes, that's the preferred way, vendorized everything (as not all deps are in main)
<seb128> hey lis! 2 consecutive days of activity on the desktop channel :)
<didrocks> hey lis
<lis> seb128: i miss you guys :)
<seb128> didrocks, well that component isn't going in main is it? (since it's only test it can be in universe right?)
<seb128> lis, :-)
<lis> also, i'm writing glib stuff now, so i'm feeling a bit desktopy :)
<didrocks> seb128: this one won't as it's only autopkgtests, however, we don't have all deps packaged separately
<RAOF> ð
<lis> RAOF: hey :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I see, I keep reviewing then :-/ thx
<RAOF> Hey lis !
<seb128> hey RAOF
<RAOF> Hey seb128 !
<RAOF> Hey didrocks, Laney, duflu and everyone!
<duflu> Hi RAOF. After-dinnering again?
<RAOF> Yah. It's a big night of meetings for me! 9pm Mir, 5:30am SRU. It'll be rad!
<didrocks> hey RAOF ;)
<seb128> didrocks, NEWed, sorry for the delay in the review (I did finally start yesterday but the vendor thing make it took even longer at the end :-/)
<didrocks> seb128: thx! I'll let you binary NEWing as well if you want to double check?
<seb128> k
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I believe you're familiar with what it takes to have a snap preseeded on images? ubuntu kylin needs chromium, and vorlon mentioned I needed to open and close a stable/ubuntu-19.10 channel for the snap, is that all that's needed?
<oSoMoN> (that's bug #1832656)
<ubot5> bug 1832656 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Eoan) "chromium-browser deb->snap transition breaks ubuntukylin image builds" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1832656
<kenvandine> Open and close the channel plus add it to the seed
<kenvandine> Looks like they seeded it already
<kenvandine> So just need the channel
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, a bit of a n00b question: do I need to release for all 4 supported architectures in that new channel, or just one?
<kenvandine> Yes
<kenvandine> All 4
<oSoMoN> ok
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, done, IÂ release the 4 stable revisions to that channel and closed it afterwards, now I can't see it list anywhere, I suppose that's expected?
<seb128> oSoMoN, I hadn't paid attention to the chromium snap transition post on discourse, quite some feedback there, thanks for keeping up with user comments!
<seb128> kenvandine, tkamppeter, one week later, what's the status of fixing the n-m autopkgtests?
<oSoMoN> seb128, I haven't fully caught up yet, that's the bad thing with long week-ends away from the computer
<seb128> haha
<seb128> there isn't much you didn't address from what I can see
<seb128> mostly haters liking to rant about world changing
<oSoMoN> seb128, I think that for this transition to be really successful we need to pay close attention to user feedback and fix whatever problems they find as early as possible
<seb128> right
<oSoMoN> yeah, the inevitable rants of people afraid of change
<oSoMoN> but even those need to be addressed politely
<oSoMoN> there are valid concerns
<seb128> indeed
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: yup
<seb128> oh, it's meeting time!
<seb128> sorry, was caught up in a discussion
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 18 13:31:27 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call: didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<marcustomlinson> \o
<Laney> hi
<oSoMoN> o/
<seb128> k, we have some people around so let's get started :)
<kenvandine> \o
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> desktop free
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Trevinho> hey
<seb128> still the same japense era things there, that needs to be sorted out but hasn't been yet, sorry about that
<seb128> otherwise the other items I've sorted out after lunch but the report didn't refresh yet
<seb128> so we can ignore them
<seb128> #topic rls-cc-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18 | Current topic: rls-cc-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> desktop free
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> same era bug and that's it
<seb128> (I also wontfixed some lines, mostly the gnome-software ones from Robert, I don't think we are going to see another cosmic SRU for it)
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ fyi, would be nice to remind Robert to not let his assigned bugs go stalled
<seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> desktop free too
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> same era bug
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<tseliot> o/
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> desktop free
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> that's in shape
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> Laney, it's yours :)
<Laney> thx
<Laney> probably going to need to MIR lmdb, I will handle that one
<seb128> thx Laney
<Laney> otherwise just the NM thing
<Laney> ...
<seb128> kenvandine said that Till starting poking at it now, he hadn't understood that he was owning it until the discussion at the previous meeting apparently
<seb128> so hopefully that does get sorted out this week now
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: ^^
<seb128> thx Laney!
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-18 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> other topics?
<tkamppeter> Yes, I have alreasy reproduced it and now I was looking through the nm.py code to find out what it is doing.
<seb128> thx tkamppeter, let us know how it goes and it you need help
<seb128> 30 seconds for other topics
<Laney> the 1.10.14 update, would be good to have a status report on that next week maybe?
<seb128> indeed, I think we mostly dropped the ball again on that :-/
<seb128> tkamppeter, kenvandine, ^ can we get that?
<Trevinho> Shell updates/SRU, some fixes landed upstream some not, maybe would be also the case to include what we have as distro-patch and try with those?
<Laney> propose merges
<Laney> please
<Trevinho> to salsa/ubuntu you mean..
<seb128> that doesn't seem a team/meeting topic
<seb128> we can discuss it after wrapping though
<Laney> as appropriate
<tkamppeter> seb128, Laney, I have got some answers on bug 1829566, they could be helful to find out bthe cause.
<ubot5> bug 1829566 in network-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "network-manager 1.10.14-0ubuntu2 ignores systemd-resolved configured dns" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829566
<Laney> thx
<seb128> but yeah, mps and reviews sound like the way to go
<kenvandine> tkamppeter:  we really need that too, but unblock the migration first
<tkamppeter> OK.
<Laney> ok another topic
<seb128> ok, let's wrap the topics don't really need to be meeting ones we can continue chatting here
<seb128> ok
<seb128> :)
<Laney> are we supposed to reply to the rls bugs email or not?
<Laney> like the point of it was to keep things moving
<seb128> good comment
<seb128> willcooke is not around now though, I think we better discuss it with him or maybe via email
<Laney> k
<seb128> but yeah, I don't feel like we have an handle on stalled items atm
<seb128> those being rls bugs or trello cards or stalled SRUs
<seb128> part my/Will's fault for not having done those tooling/report improvements yet
<Laney> the formatting that the script generates could be tweaked to be in markdown so that it can be c+p to discourse
<Laney> even if the cool auto posting isn't done
<seb128> right
<Laney> k end of point
<seb128> let's start a review of the process/situation and discuss what to do
<seb128> maybe discourse is the right place to post about that :)
<seb128> but let's see with Will once he's back onlune
<seb128> online
<seb128> other topic?
<seb128> seems not, let's wrap then
<seb128> efficient meeting, thx team!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 18 13:48:41 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-06-18-13.31.moin.txt
<seb128> Trevinho, we can discuss SRUs now if you want, did you have specific things in mind?
<Trevinho> seb128: regression updates fixes, I think the main ones landed now upstream
<seb128> Trevinho, also do you think there is anything we could do to help moving the shell search provider topic upstream? if we want to get ride of those distro changes and have an upstream solution for the next LTS we ideally should get that landed this cycle
<Trevinho> but there's one for stack, for which we might avoid a crash triggering a warning.
<Trevinho> seb128: don't know... I need to ping Florian again, but he's not much in IRC lately
<seb128> Trevinho, if you think we should distro patch I think we should do what L_aney recommends, MP the change to the packaging and we can evaluate/comment there
<seb128> Trevinho, upstream doesn't have a mailing list?
<Trevinho> yes, not really active these days thoug
<seb128> would it help to just work on the code for what you suggest? would code review motivate them more to comment?
<Trevinho> seb128: might be, but I'm expecting that if the solution isn't totally matching the design they've in mind, might still stay there and wait
<Trevinho> as for bionic, I think backporting is trivial
<Trevinho> but the latest package is still in phased updates, as per increased crash rate
<Trevinho> which I've looked at, but that is basically impossible to detect as the log is just mozjs stuff with no JS dump
<Trevinho> but in any case none of them is a pure regression of this SRU, maybe of the previous one... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1832869 is the main one thugh, but there were previous errors tracked similar to this
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1832869 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in g_hash_table_iter_next â meta_display_list_windows â meta_workspace_list_windows â ffi_call_SYSV â ffi_call()" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> Trevinho, k, so looking around, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/d5de4eff621a9ad0777d271a9aabf26458debf5a was already reported on launchpad with an older version and likely due to an extension, you can reply to Brian to ignore that one
<Trevinho> Ah, this one is new, but I didn't  reply yet
<seb128> Trevinho, the one you just listed, it has reports from the version currently on bionic-security so you can also tell Brian that it doesn't make sense to block the newest SRU
<seb128> Trevinho, and for the rate increase just tell him we looked at the reports/errors and didn't see any sign that tell us it's a problem with the SRU or worth blocking it further
<seb128> that should be enough to let him unblock the updat
<seb128> Wimpress, if you ever get some free cycle could you give a try to see if you still can hit bug #1765053?  that file md5 is identic between the i386 and amd64 debs so the error is weird and we can't reproduce
<ubot5> bug 1765053 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Errors were encountered while processing: /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-x8YVfC/03-libnvidia-compute-390_390.48-0ubuntu2_i386.deb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765053
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, good..
<seb128> Trevinho, thx
<Trevinho> just emailed
<Trevinho> as per disco, I can re-prepare the branches
<Trevinho> while I wrote about unlinsting https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/1a63c83d1c90f48036a2f839bf608738eefde4c8 since it's not a shell issue, there's a report on lib account that can be reproduced also with a test case + the lib, so no shell problem
<seb128> k
<seb128> but disco has valid regressions which have been fixed upstream now so it needs another upload to get unblocked right?
<seb128> jdstrand_, hey, I'm reviewing the desktop section from http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html for stalled item, bug #1788929 for evince has been assigned to you and marked as in progress since septembre, it looks like it could do with a status update (either get the fix finally upload, or wontfix/unassign/...)
<ubot5> bug 1788929 in evince (Ubuntu Bionic) "Debian/Ubuntu AppArmor policy gaps in evince" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1788929
<seb128> willcooke, jibel, can you get https://trello.com/c/nCvZPipl/18-qa-keep-an-history-of-desktop-images updated in some way? it had a target date in february, unsure if it should be wontfixed or kept in the backlog?
<kenvandine> wow... google calendar is down!
<jdstrand_> seb128: ack
<Wimpress> seb128: Yep, I'll try to reproduce it again.
<Wimpress> Do you want to this testing on 19.04 or 19.10?
<Wimpress> seb128: Looks like I could reproduce that issue following a newer 18.04 daily - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-drivers-common/+bug/1765053/comments/5
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1765053 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu Bionic) "Errors were encountered while processing: /tmp/apt-dpkg-install-x8YVfC/03-libnvidia-compute-390_390.48-0ubuntu2_i386.deb" [High,Confirmed]
<Wimpress> *could NOT
<Thr0r> I was just wondering why the latest version of DigiKam - ver.6,0 is not in the SW shop. I recently installed and I got ver. 5,6,0
<seb128> Wimpress, thx for testing, I was not aiming at testing on a particular serie, just to know if that is still happening to someone. It was reported on 18.04 so it's good if it stopped happening there for you
<seb128> Thr0r, that's not something #ubuntu-desktop is working on but it looks like it's also outdated in Debian, https://packages.qa.debian.org/d/digikam.html
<Thr0r> seb128: Ok, Thanks. Seems no channel is responsible for keeping SW updated in SW Center...
<sarnold> looks like no one has a digikam snap package up yet -- you could upload the new version there :) https://snapcraft.io/search?q=digikam
<Thr0r> I don't know how that works so I'd better not..
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-19
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> sesalut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> sesalut didrocks :)
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<Wimpress> Morning
<marcustomlinson> goedemorgen
<duflu> Morning Wimpress and marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey Wimpress, marcustomlinson
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> en forme ?
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<seb128> duflu, oh, I forgot to mention it again, but that keeps coming as an issue in team meetings, please don't directly nominated bugs to stable serie without assignee. Either you/Marco plan to work on the fix and assign it as appropriate or rls-bb-incoming tag them so they go through the proper team review process
<duflu> seb128, ok
<seb128> thanks!
 * duflu assigns self
<seb128> it's a bit annoying that we don't have a proper way to flag "affects that serie" that doesn't conflict with the rls tracking process but that's the way it is atm :/
<duflu> didrocks, I would like to drop the patch for bug 1797355, because it's preventing us from getting a bigger bug 1705369 fixed. I can't seem to reproduce 1797355 - can you?
<ubot5> bug 1797355 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Once logged in, GDM Shell process CPU usage spiking at 100%" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797355
<ubot5> bug 1705369 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu boots to blank screen when using Nvidia (on a desktop with an unused Intel GPU)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705369
<didrocks> duflu: I need to retry with a newer GNOME SHell, but the fix isn't applied upstream IIRC, so let's see
<didrocks> duflu: mind if I test it either tomorrow/next Monday? Don't want to reboot/context switch with the potential of not booting right now :p
<duflu> I know. It looks to me like upstream had it right
<duflu> didrocks, no problem -- I'll just block any code review waiting for you some timwe
<duflu> time
<didrocks> duflu: I'll retry and keep you posted
<seb128> bah, it's ranting week or what on discourse/forums
<seb128> snaps, i386, ...
<duflu> People care about things. Which means people have opinions
<duflu> The good news is that it means they care about Ubuntu
<seb128> the french forum seems to have turned into a group of old school people who think a community is about complaining about anything done in the project you are supposed to care about...
<Laney> yo
<duflu> sup Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey duflu didrocks
<oSoMoN> seb128, complaining is very French, nothing new under the sun :)
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> oSoMoN, yeah, just wrote a long reply on discourse
<duflu> Remember you can always mute a topic at the bottom of each page
<seb128> I'm refraining to register on the french forum to tell them "weird view of being part of a community/project to see that as $must_bitch_about_the_thing_Im_supposed_to_care_about)
<seb128> they look like a bunch of biter old linux men :/
<duflu> https://xkcd.com/386/
<seb128> duflu, :-)
<marcustomlinson> all absolute statements are wrong
<seb128> well, they are right that our gnome-calculator startup time is embarassing and we should fix that
<duflu> Yeah, though I was refraining from discussing that till someone else opened the bug. I just find the slowness annoying and not practical right now
<didrocks> I guess this is the most visible point which starts this fud
<didrocks> and TBH, it's a little bit embarrassing after having snaps by default for multiple releases. So, I can understand, this is why I asked them to come with facts on the french forum
<didrocks> rather the "I think/I don't like/blablabla"
<seb128> we transitioned those in 17.10 IIRC
<seb128> they wake up 2 years later and act like it was the end of the world today
<didrocks> they don't wake up 2 years later :)
<didrocks> I've been containing those topics (and raised them here already) multiple times on the french forum
<didrocks> telling them we are working on the speed improvements (and we did for some)
<seb128> right, that's what I'm telling
<didrocks> I guess after 2 years, as everything isn't fixed, they are coming to the conclusion it won't get fixed (but that's just my perception)
<seb128> they prefer to bitch in their closed group
<seb128> rather than try to work with us on solution...
<didrocks> ohâ¦ "opening bugs/talking about it in the community forum" is a mantra I have for years with them :)
<didrocks> but it doesn't always succeed
<seb128> thx for keeping reminding them :)
<didrocks> also, I think speaking in english is a high barreer
<didrocks> barrier*
<seb128> right
<seb128> well I read a bit their post
<didrocks> yeah, you can find something 3-4 pages for each release since 17.10
<seb128> I don't like their mentality, unsure if we can make them reconsider their approach
<didrocks> (the topic is archived on the "instable" forum)
<seb128> their reply to any "$software has $issue" is "remove the snap, install the deb"
<didrocks> I think if we come with "there is now more speed difference between snaps & debs", it will get harder for them to argue
<seb128> which then goes "I've a years old version"
<seb128> where they reply" try that ppa"
<didrocks> yeah, the ppa approach is :/
<seb128> would be more constructive to figure out the issue in the snap and get it reported/fixed
<didrocks> I don't think they are technical enough for this
<didrocks> especially when helping people on the LTS (which is where we pushed the snap)
<didrocks> but TBH, I think we have enough "issues" we know about (like the startup time), already, getting those fixed, will help a lot in the perception of the tech
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's just sad the way they go about it
<seb128> like one user had an issue with "retroarch"
<seb128> it went through the "ah, it's because you use the snap"
<seb128> they recommended installing the deb
<seb128> and the user said "I've an year old version now and it still doesn't work"
<seb128> so they are making thing more complicated
<seb128> and not helping the users
<seb128> he's off in a worth situation after they "helped"
<seb128> they would better just not reply
<didrocks> yeah, I guess this is the issue with not technical enough people
<didrocks> the "use the deb" could be understandable: they are just trying to get things fixed for the use case (like sys admins)
<didrocks> without seeing the greeter good, but at the same time, they are not beta tester
<didrocks> which doesn't help us fixing issues, I agree
<didrocks> BUT, in cases like this
<didrocks> you end up in a worse situation, I agree
<didrocks> "tinkering", was the term I was looking for
 * seb128 must refrains from subscribing and trying to reply to every user problem :p
<didrocks> good luck then :p
<didrocks> I only monitor the "unstable version" topic
<didrocks> and sometimes, on Monday, it's already a lot :p
<seb128> I did a long reply on discourse, hopefully it's a bit usefulk
<didrocks> yeah, read it, sounds good to me
<seb128> thx :)
<seb128> k, I just close that french forum
<seb128> already too much to do, I don't need more distraction
<didrocks> I think we should admit that the startup time issue is taking longer to fix than we thought, and this will help
<seb128> right
<seb128> I also think that for some reason gnome-calculator is praticularly slow
<seb128> evince or gnome-calendar are faster to start than the calculator for me
<seb128> also the snap exec metric shows that the desktop-launcher is not the main offender, which I though it would have been
<didrocks> yeah, I guess we fixed most of the issues there
<seb128> but there is no obvious time consumer in the top 10 either
<didrocks> so, could be in snapd itself
<seb128> right, maybe the compression
<seb128> we need mvo&co to get to the bottom of that
<didrocks> yep
<oSoMoN> seb128, good answer on discourse, also thanks popey for your patience and repeated requests for actionable data
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx!
<popey> oSoMoN: np
<mvo> seb128: you can test if its the compression by using "snap try" on the gnome-calculator prime dir and measure this
<oSoMoN> I also like Ian Weisser's articulate replies, they contrast nicely with all those very emotional and unhelpful rants
<mvo> seb128: we did some measurements just last week and it looks like squashfs/compression overhead is very small (chipaca wrote a script and measured a bunch of snaps)
<seb128> mvo, the dir is /snap/<name>/current counts as "prime"?
<oSoMoN> you'll probably need to unsquashfs the snap file to measure that reliably
<mvo> seb128: sry was a bit terse, what oSoMoN said is easiest, just unsquash and snap try it
<seb128> mvo, k, needs more debugging then :/ Like that recent discussion/report, the user has a 7 seconds start time, the desktop-launcher is the biggest offender in the snap exec metrics with 1 s and the other items are 0.3 seconds or such
<mvo> seb128: snap try /path/to/unpack/dir
<mvo> seb128: do you have a link?
<mvo> seb128: is that hdd or ssd?
<seb128> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1833004
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1833004 in Snappy "Application SNAP is slower than DEB at first launch" [Undecided,New]
<mvo> seb128: I wonder if library loading/symbole resolving is slow, we never got around to measure this but I would love to get data for that too
<popey> i get 7 second launch if i haven't used chromium for a day - so the cache is cold
<popey> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mN8MtCPzYW/
<seb128> on warm cache with calculator I get 0.7s vs 2s
<seb128> like I already position my mouse on the X to close the dialog as it opens and click click click
<popey> faster to use alt-f4
<popey> as soon as the window appears
<seb128> k
<popey> IMO
<seb128> bah, laptop flat
<seb128> I need to go back to my desk
<seb128> brb
<popey> ^ totally not seb pressing alt-f4 accidentally on irc
<oSoMoN> :)
<seb128> and back
<seb128> popey, mvo, that chromium pastebin is a bit weird btw
<seb128>   8.304s /snap/chromium/750/usr/lib/chromium-browser/chrome
<seb128>   4.624s /proc/self/exe
<seb128> Total time: 9.529s
<seb128> until now I though that the list if items were chunck of the total
<duflu> Is that second line a fork() ?
<duflu> Or just a bad lookup and should be grouped into the first?
<mvo> the measure code may encounter something unexpected
<duflu> I guess chrome does fork lots. That might be it
<oSoMoN> it does fork a lot
<tkamppeter> Anyone familiar with the autopkg tests of network-manager, this Python stuff using the unittest Python module?
<Laney> a bit
<Laney> tkamppeter: what's the problem?
<tkamppeter> Laney, I have added some extra print() statements and I do not get the output of them in the log, even not the output of the already existing statements, like print('******* NM initialized *********\n\n'). I have set the NM_LOG_STDOUT env variable and actually get live view of the log output.
<Laney> tkamppeter: hmm I dunno, sorry, I certainly saw a lot of output when I ran it before
<tkamppeter> Laney, seems that only pitti knows it who has initially created it and then there was never a failure and I am the very first one having it fail.
<Laney> No, we've certainly fixed things with it in the past
<Laney> It's not something that's been touched a lot - Martin did a good job in making a robust test script - but it has been maintained a bit.
<pitti> Laney, tkamppeter: where is this now? (not sure if I missed some distro git packaging changes)
<pitti> at first sight it smells like a subprocess issue that gets redirected
<Laney> hey pitti
<pitti> hey Laney and tkamppeter, wie  geht's?
<Laney> I think Till's working from https://code.launchpad.net/~network-manager/network-manager/+git/ubuntu/+ref/gir-nm
<pitti> tkamppeter: so where exactly in https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/tree/debian/tests/nm.py?h=gir-nm did you try and add a print?
<pitti> print() in these tests should work fine
 * Laney would think so too: buffering's off, stderr redirected to stdout
<Laney> pitti: I'm juju 2-ifying/Mojoing autopkgtest atm :-)
<Laney> RIP deploy.sh
<Laney> hope you're well too
<pitti> Laney: oh, poor man's juju! :)
<pitti> Laney: I am, thanks! enjoying the summer
<Laney> heh
<Laney> we've not had one of those yet
<Laney> http://[2001:ba8:1f1:d03:216:3eff:fef0:f2f0]/running <- first lxd/armhf test is a-go
 * Trevinho undecided weather to go wild and try to fix a g++ thing or just leave the bug and testcase for the future generations :)
<Trevinho> whether*
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi Laney
<Laney> Â¿cÃ³mo estÃ¡s?
<seb128> Trevinho, stop getting too much distracted by fixing all the world issues :)
<Trevinho> seb128: you know, making better world is my mission :P, but I won't try this one indeed
<seb128> :-)
<Trevinho> Laney: all good
<Trevinho> just was helping with one big improvement to gjs, which is blocked by mozjs, which I've workarounded also upstream, but still is eventually a g++ issue
<Trevinho> Laney: as I expect you to be curious, try https://www.pastery.net/dvmjsj/ with both g++ and clang++ and see the nm inconsistency
<Laney> I am, but it's 16:25 and I didn't eat my lunch yet, so I'll be curious later :P
 * Laney was sweating trying to get lxd stuff to work
<Laney> not many things left to do now ^_^
<seb128> Laney, woot, well done! enjoy the lunch :-)
<Laney> 1) poking the proxies in, 2) testing if ExecReload= works properly, 3) hooking up github stuff
<Laney> 4) ssl, but can't really test that without a domain name, which requires the staging environment
<Laney> biab
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: i repacked the chromium snap adding the gnome-3-28-1804 content interface
<kenvandine> and it seems to shave roughly 20% off startup time
<kenvandine> very unscientific measurement
<kenvandine> rm -rf ~/snap/chromium
<kenvandine> time snap run chromium
<kenvandine> then alt-f4 when i see the window
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, so that's a 20% gain on first run, right? what about subsequent runs?
<kenvandine> first run
<kenvandine> 2nd run is hard to measure because it starts very fast
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, also, the chromium snap launcher will copy an existing profile in ~/.config/chromium, so for measurements you should ensure there's nothing there
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: do you know if there is an arg i can pass to exit after startup?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: yeah, i created a new user account
<kenvandine> so completely empty home dir
<oSoMoN> good
<kenvandine> i seem to recall firefox having an arg you can pass to exit after it loads, which seems silly but it very useful for this kind of profiling :)
<kenvandine> my reaction time to hit alt-f4 after seeing the window is included here
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, not that I know of
<kenvandine> the subsequent runs are under 2 seconds including my reaction time
<kenvandine> so i'm guessing ~1 second startup
<oSoMoN> there's the --product-version switch, but it doesn't actually perform a full initialization of the browser, so it doens
<oSoMoN> doesn't count
<kenvandine> yeah
<Laney> could you use Selenium to close the window?
<marcustomlinson> or remove some runtime that causes it crash late :)
<Laney> you hackers
<ahayzen[m]> instead of using $ time command  you could start a script which scans open X11 windows until Chrome appears?  like hitting xwininfo -root -tree  or something
<kenvandine> ahayzen[m]: that's a good idea
<Laney> in case you don't know, Selenium is a browser testing framework.
<marcustomlinson> XD
<marcustomlinson> It's be nice though to have a solution that works on non-browser desktop snaps too
<kenvandine> yeah, not sure i want the overhead of running that :)
<Laney> depends if you only ever want the most trivial tests or if actually making sure the thing works is interesting ...
<Laney> chromium's deb had some autopkgtests that used selenium
<Laney> one of them basically opened the browser, checked the version, and quit it
<Laney> not sure, but I would guess that the snap doesn't have anything like that/
<Laney> (the other one ran a copy of html5test.com)
<oSoMoN> Laney, the snap has the same tests, they're installed in /snap/chromium/current/tests/
<oSoMoN> but they're run headless, so no window is shown
<oSoMoN> although it's trivial to remove the headless parameter, and they should work equally fine
<Laney> nice!
<oSoMoN> that'll do for today, have a good evening everyone!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-20
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Hi jibel
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<duflu> and biab
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<RAOF> Hey all!
<RAOF> Who particularly wanted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NVidiaUpdates to be considered? I'm SRU-team-looking at it at the moment.
<Wimpress> Yawn
<Wimpress> o/
<duflu> Hi RAOF and Wimpress
<duflu> RAOF: jibel + willcooke (?)
<jibel> RAOF, me
<didrocks> hey RAOF, Wimpress, jibel
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, hey duflu, hi RAOF, morning Wimpress, bonjour jibel
<duflu> ð¤¹
<duflu> ^ oSoMoN juggling time zones
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien :)
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> salut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<seb128> brb, restarting/doing some testing
<Laney> hark
<marcustomlinson> morning jibel duflu didrocks oSoMoN RAOF Wimpress seb128 Laney
<marcustomlinson> *DEEP BREATH*
<seb128> hey $team :)
<duflu> Morning Laney and marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson? Laney
<marcustomlinson> yes that is my nick
<Laney> hi marcustomlinson duflu didrocks (& seb128, but minus points for laziness :>)
<seb128> *g*
<duflu> hi La*
<willcooke> morning folks
<marcustomlinson> morning willcooke
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<oSoMoN> morning Laney, marcustomlinson, willcooke
<marcustomlinson> I just learnt what the French call cotton candy :D
<marcustomlinson> amazing...
<Laney> hi d\w{3}u wil{2}co{2}ke (?:o[SMN]){3}
<Laney> marcustomlinson: :D
<seb128> "cotton candy" does make sense
 * seb128 didn't know that was the english name
<marcustomlinson> :)
<Laney> we use candy floss here usually
<marcustomlinson> in South Africa is candy floss too yeah
<Laney> dunno what floss means in this context actually
<marcustomlinson> cotton candy better describes it though
<Laney>  âflossâ is a word of uncertain origin that probably comes from the Latin word âfloccusâ meaning âtuft of woolâ.
<Laney> well how about that
<marcustomlinson> ð¤¯
<seb128> today is learning day :)
<marcustomlinson> floss is also the name given to the rough silk enveloping a silkworm's cocoon
<marcustomlinson> origin: mid 18th century: from French (soie) floche âfloss (silk)â, from Old French flosche âdown, nap of velvetâ, of unknown origin.
<marcustomlinson> seb128 just couldn't handle it anymore
<Laney> seb128: do you have a g-s-d to push to ubuntu/master?
<seb128> Laney, done, sorry for forgetting earlier
<Laney> np
<Laney> thanks!
<seb128> np
<seb128> (tag pushed as well now)
<Laney> ð
 * Laney merges Gunnar's fix
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> kenvandine, tkamppeter, I've register https://community.ubuntu.com/t/32bits-printer-drivers-on-amd64-systems/11342 to discuss 32 bits printer driver in a world without i386 ubuntu archive
<kenvandine> seb128: thanks
<seb128> np!
<tkamppeter> seb128, I have answered this thread now, thanks for the hint.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thx!
<willcooke> tkamppeter, so on your thread is the TL;DR  "Everything should be fine without even using the drivers."
<tkamppeter> willcooke, or better "there was never anything in the printing environment to accomodate 32-bit drivers on 64-bit, and now proprietary drivers fade away due to driverless".
<willcooke> tkamppeter, ack, thx!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-21
<RAOF> Hey all! (take 2)
<RAOF> Who particularly wanted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NVidiaUpdates to be considered? I'm SRU-team-looking at it at the moment.
<RAOF> And I Have Questions.
<RAOF> jibel: Aha! Now that matrix has caught up I see you!
<duflu> That's a large glitch in the matrix
<RAOF> That's LXD updating, and for some reason losing network connectivity out of the containers I have my homeserver inâ¦
<jibel> RAOF, hi, thanks for reviewing. What questions?
 * jibel waits for the matrix to update and an answer on Monday
<jibel> hi all
<RAOF> jibel: ð
<RAOF> So, my main question is: why backport the short-lived branches?
<RAOF> Because, as I understand it, you get all the hardware-enablement goodness out of SRUing the long-lived branch?
<jibel> RAOF, because short lived adds new features and latest gpu support
<jibel> in long lived there are also new gpu but only bug fixes
<RAOF> I thought the long-lived branches also added GPU support?
<jibel> yes, but only bug fixes
<RAOF> Ok. So SRUing the short-lived branch is not really about hardware enablement, then?
<jibel> someone who's on long lived won't be switch to short lived unless he does it intentionally
<jibel> no, it's more to bring the latest stuff from upstream to the users of this hardware.
<jibel> they also have support for newer gpu earlier with short lived
<RAOF> Ok.
<RAOF> So, the rest is entirely uncontrovertial, as far as I can see; long-lived and legacy are clearly HWE, and we made our peace with that long ago ð¸
<jibel> Great :)
<jibel> RAOF, so what's next, we'll get a formal approval or have to amend the exception?
<RAOF> And since you need to opt-in to using the short-lived branches, they're probably fine to SRU, too.
<jibel> excellent
<RAOF> That's a good question!
<RAOF> My memory of the feeling of the SRU team in the meeting was that this was basically a special case of the HWE exception we already have.
<RAOF> I'll check the notes for that, but I believe the next step is me signing off on that.
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> Evening duflu
<duflu> Not quite. But it is for RAOF
<duflu> Evening/afternoon RAOF
<RAOF> And a fine afternoon to you, too, duflu
<duflu> Is there an Nvidia definition of long/short lived?
<duflu> Or is that of our making?
<jibel> duflu, there is no official definition, but it's what I gathered from their website and replies from their support team on the forums
<jibel> it's a recurring question
<duflu> Yeah I was trying to tell from the version numbers but could not
<duflu> You can only tell a series is long lived when it's long lived
<jibel> there is no logic between the version number and the branch
<RAOF> They explicitly call out long lived/short lived on the driver page: https://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
<duflu> Oh. How did I miss that? Thanks!
<duflu> I guess I always go in via the drivers menu which is on the black geforce web site and it doesn't tell you there
<RAOF> Although, amusingly, there isn't currently a short-lived branch that's useful.
<RAOF> (The current short-lived branch is 415; the long-lived branch is 430)
<jibel> from my discussion with tseliot odd numbers are short lived and even are long lived
<jibel> to be confirmed
<duflu> That makes sense. So how long is "long" according to Nvidia?
<jibel> "A short-lived branch typically has only one or two (non-beta) releases, while long-lived branches will have several."
<jibel> so "long" = "several releases"  that's helpful
<jibel> from the archive there's been 6 releases of 415 (short lived)  between Nov 2018 and Jan 2019
<jibel> and 6 of 410 from Sept. 2018 and Feb 2019
<jibel> long is a bit longer that short but not much
<marcustomlinson> good morning!
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<willcooke> hi seb128
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson willcooke, happy friday!
<willcooke> \o/
<marcustomlinson> :D
<Laney> yo
<Laney> guten fridayen
<seb128> hoi Laney, bon vendredi !
<duflu> Good morning marcustomlinson, willcooke, seb128, Laney
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? having a nice friday? ready for the weekend? ;)
<duflu> seb128, mostly nice yeah. I don't know about "ready" for the weekend but I will appreciate it. You?
<seb128> one full day to go, I hope to get some work done, we are approaching end of june and I have half my trello card not started yet for this iteration :/
<seb128> otherwise I'm looking forward the w.e, we are in the North of France for 3 days, weather should be nice and there are music festival for the summer start
<Laney> hey seb128 duflu
<Laney> happy summer/winter solstice!
 * Laney should get to start a new Trello card on Monday hopefully ...
<Wimpress> o/
<duflu>     \o
<Laney> _o>
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, what's the status of fixing the network manager autopkgtests?
<kenvandine> seb128: last i heard he had found the cause of the callback hanging but there were other failures he was working on too
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, k, thx for the update! (is Till off today? also do you know if he works in a vcs or such?)
<kenvandine> not off and not sure if he's pushing his work anywhere
<seb128> k, enough work for this week
<seb128> today was Debian merges day and bug triage, I feel tired now, going to enjoy the nice weather and a beer :)
<seb128> see you on monday!
<Laney> bye seb128
<teward> seb128: have one on me :)
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> happy weekend all, see you next week
<kenvandine> jdstrand: i have a snap awaiting review because of a minor change to the dbus name
<kenvandine> -    name: org.gnome.sudoku
<kenvandine> +    name: org.gnome.Sudoku
<tkamppeter> Hi, Is there a function to turn the string "192.168.5.23" into an integer?
<sarnold> tkamppeter: yes. *however*, using it will mean you're not going to work with ipv6 addresses.
<sarnold> tkamppeter: if you're okay with ipv4 only for whatever reasons, inet_aton(3). that'll emit the address in network byte order, not host endianness.
<tkamppeter> sarnold, first, the code part where I will use it, is IPv4-only, and second, I got the suggestion to use the netaddr Python module which has a function which convers both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses.
<sarnold> tkamppeter: oh cool
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-15
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> morning duflu , how is your weekend going?
<duflu> callmepk, it's Monday but the weekend was good. You?
<callmepk> Pretty good
<jibel> morning all
<duflu> Hi jibel (!?)
<jibel> Hello duflu 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128 
<jibel> salut seb128 
<duflu> I can see you more clearly in 4K now
<duflu> Pity everything is stuttering, but I will figure that out...
<seb128> hey duflu, ricotz, jibel, how are you? had a good w.e?
<duflu> seb128, still pretty quiet and isolated. Only saw family. You?
<jibel> it's been a nice w-e. My daughter's birthday party on Saturday, bicycle ride yesterday and still unboxing and mounting furniture.
<jibel> I'd enjoy a bit more sleep though
<seb128> duflu, saturday was nice, great weather and we walked around for a bit, yesterday was grey and a bit borring, we are still not seeing much people nor doing much outside :/
<seb128> jibel, ah nice :)
<jibel> seb128, are coworking spaces open in NL? I'm starting to really miss it. 
<seb128> I think they can reopen if they respect the 1.5m rule etc but I didn't go check if the local one is reopen yet
<seb128> but yeah, that has been long enough, I would welcome going outside; seeing people and not be day and nights in the same place
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, happy Monday!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<ricotz> hey oSoMoN duflu seb128 jibel 
<duflu> Morning ricotz 
<didrocks> good morning
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi didrocks and marcustomlinson 
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, duflu 
<marcustomlinson> jibel: youâre in NL now?
<oSoMoN> good morning ricotz, didrocks, marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu didrocks oSoMoN
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN 
 * duflu just discovered you can set high DPI console fonts in VTs. That's nice
<jibel> marcustomlinson, no, I'm still in France in Brittany
<seb128> lut didrocks, oSoMoN, hey marcustomlinson, how are you? good w.e?
<seb128> didrocks, thx for the libnma mir review!
<didrocks> seb128: yw :)
<marcustomlinson> hey seb128, pretty good thanks. looks like the restrictions will be eased enough this week for me to visit my parents next week :)
<marcustomlinson> the grandparents are really missing their new grandchild!
<Laney> moin
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<Laney> what up MT
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<duflu> Hi Laney
<Laney> https://twitter.com/BBCNottingham/status/1272439418792673281 ð³
<Laney> moin didrocks & duflu!
<seb128> hey Laney, how was the long w.e?
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers
<marcustomlinson> hi Wimpress
<Wimpress> Hey marcustomlinson o/
<duflu> Hi Wimpress 
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, Laney, Wimpress 
<didrocks> HEY Wimpress 
<didrocks> without capslock works as well :p
<Laney> sup seb128 Wimpress 
<Laney> weekend was nice, went and explored a hidden abandoned tunnel https://photos.app.goo.gl/iarczD2hDyUv2Q57A
<Laney> too scared to go in though, will have to come back not alone
<seb128> hehe; wise choice
<luna_> i was on a boat: https://imgur.com/a/b7rn9O1
<xnox> Laney:  jibel: https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/385566 https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/385607 https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+merge/385614 I'd appreciate for your input on which way ubiquity should be managed going forward. I think over focal/groovy cycles you are the top two committers, so the new style workflow
<xnox> should be easy for you two. Whichever one we pick.
<Laney> ok I will try building it and see how it goes
<Laney> (subtrees if possible)
<oSoMoN> seb128, I filed a bug for the blobandconquer ppc64el FTBFS, and attached a debdiff to it: bug #1883522
<ubot5> bug 1883522 in blobandconquer (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on ppc64el" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1883522
<xnox> oSoMoN:  if this is -O3 vs -O2 triggered failure, normally, we simply change DEB_CFLAGS_APPEND_MAINT=-O2
<xnox> in debian/rules
<xnox> rather than patching the build system.
<oSoMoN> xnox, that would result in building the entire project with -O2, whereas in that case the build only chokes on one specific file
<xnox> oSoMoN:  like this:
<xnox> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?att=1;bug=942609;filename=pspp_1.2.0-3ubuntu1.debdiff;msg=5
<xnox> oSoMoN:  true.
<xnox> oSoMoN:  i also wonder if we should notify IBM about that specific file, thing, too. For them to fix toolchain there.
<oSoMoN> xnox, happy to do that if you have a contact there who cares
<xnox> normally i open a fresh bug, and ask fjh to reverse proxy it
<xnox> oSoMoN:  i had to run "update-maintainer" on that package, such that Maintainer fields in debian/control are correct
<xnox> (this was also missing fromt he ubuntu1 upload)
<oSoMoN> right, IÂ forgot that
<oSoMoN> thanks for sponsoring!
<xnox> opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-power-systems/+bug/1883531
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1883531 in gcc-9 (Ubuntu) "build hangs for 2 hours with -03, yet succeeds with -O2 very quickly" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> and will ask to proxy that back to IBM
<seb128> oSoMoN, xnox, thx
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<Laney> yo hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hey Laney 
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, I re-ran the libreoffice groovy/armhf autopkgtests that failed, it's currently running (http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running#pkg-libreoffice), fingers crossed it passes and migrates
<hellsworth> ok thanks. i'm looking at the update_excuses now. there are more tests that i think need running (because they say regression and not test running)
<hellsworth> i'm putting together a lsit now
<hellsworth> also, oSoMoN thank you so so much for responding to Steve Langasek on the sru
<hellsworth> i had no idea how to answer him..
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, you're welcome, I'm not really sure why he picked on that one, there's nothing new in SRUing libreoffice minor updatesâ¦ anyway it would be good if you could look into that API/ABI stability question
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: would you mind please rerunning these autopkgtests too? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nCbT8R5RW9/
<hellsworth> those were the remaining failed tests in update_excuses
<hellsworth> and yes i'll take a look at the API/ABI stability and also respond about the importance of #1869561
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, looking
<hellsworth> thanks
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, all re-triggered, except for the last one which was already running
<hellsworth> ah ok thanks
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: do you have any suggestion on how to go about the API stability test research? there aren't many tests in core/test or testtools.. i went and introduced myself to #libreoffice-qa and asked for a pointer and waiting on a reply..
<hellsworth> of course as soon as i say this, i find a bulk of tests in uitests
<oSoMoN> I guess that's your best bet, if you can't find anything related at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA
<hellsworth> ok thanks :)
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, also, rico_tz may be familiar with the LO tests
<hellsworth> i'll poke around the wiki link a bit but hope someone responds in irc
<hellsworth> great suggestion!! ricotz I'm looking for LO tests around API/ABI stability.. are you familiar with the tests enough to point to where these would be?
<ricotz> hellsworth, such things are scattered in the source tree, e.g. located in "*/qa/*" subfolders
<hellsworth> right.. i didn't see anything obvious in qa/ so i went and asked in the lo irc channels and was pointed to ./solenv/gbuild/UnoApiTarget.mk that tests ./offapi/type_reference/offapi.idl
<hellsworth> it's those buildtime tests that are not in qa/ and not obvious
<hellsworth> thank you oSoMoN, ricotz :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-16
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Hi callmepk 
<callmepk> hi duflu 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<callmepk> hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey callmepk 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<seb128> hey callmepk oSoMoN
<seb128> how are you?
<callmepk> hey seb128 , I am good, how are you
<seb128> I'm alright, got 7 hours sleep which is not every night atm :)
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> 7 hours sleep sounds pretty good, that's what I managed too, andÂ I feel fine
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<didrocks> hello oSoMoN 
<duflu> Hi didrocks 
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment va aujourd'hui ?
<didrocks> salut seb128, duflu, Ã§a va et vous ?
<duflu> umm, good :)
<Laney> yo
<duflu> Hi Laney. Thanks for the sponsorship
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey duflu, np
<Laney> moin seb128 
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<Laney> doing alrightttttttttt
<Laney> sup didrocks 
<duflu> popey, is it ideal that after a post moves to the "Support & Help Requests" category it can't be answered by anyone? I feel some of them deserve a simple answer when a simple answer is available
<duflu> Posters don't even get told what they did wrong(?), as well as never getting an answer
<popey> It's not ideal. But it's a slippery slope. We try to ensure all support questions go to the best place for support. We tell people when they sign up that the site isn't for support, multiple times. yet they still post. There's only so many times you can tell people before it becomes draining and frustrating.
<popey> Especially as these people are almost always drive-by support requests, not contributors, not looking for long term support conversations, just "fix my wifi" style questions. We have support avenues, and they should use them. 
<duflu> Hey I know. I spend hours every day answering bugs that are not bugs. But I don't feel it's a good approach to lock the rest of us out from replying
<popey> I'd love for us to improve the process without us ending up answering support questions on the site. Suggestions welcome
<seb128> if they do get a reply there is an insensitive to try posting for support anyway since you do get a reply at the end
<popey> Maybe we should just move them and hide them, but not make them locked
<duflu> Yes. Weirdly they're often not locked but also not reply-able
<popey> Right! "Well, i got an answer, so this iste clearly is for support"
<popey> yes the category is set to no treply
<duflu> Oh
<duflu> I hope you're not still on holiday :)
<popey> 2nd day back :)
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey there
<didrocks> hey!
<seb128> sorry, I'm about to start the meeting, just saw Wimpress' request 
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 16 13:31:23 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), heather, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine (out), laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<oSoMoN> o/
<Trevinho> o/
<Laney> |o
<hellsworth> o/
<marcustomlinson> \o
<seb128> hey everyone, hope you are doing well :)
<seb128> let's get started!
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15 | Current topic: rls-bb-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Wimpress> o/ Sorry I was late joining. 
<seb128> nothing unassigned
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15 | Current topic: rls-ff-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1858636
<ubot5> bug 1858636 in snapd (Ubuntu) "snapd generates incomplete fontconfig caches, result in emoji rendering issue in chromium" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1858636
<oSoMoN> this is a snapd bug, really
<seb128> I tagged it bug we confirmed it's snapd generating an incomplete fontconfig cache
<seb128> oSoMoN, I think we can mark chromium invalid?
<oSoMoN> yes
<seb128> thx
<seb128> bug #1874567
<ubot5> bug 1874567 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-440 (Ubuntu) "[nvidia] Rotating secondary monitor to portrait fails, results in landscape" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874567
<hellsworth> it affects a lot of people
<seb128> right, I think it qualify to be rls target, +1 from me
<Wimpress> Agree
<hellsworth> +1
<seb128> let's assign to Daniel
<seb128> that's it for incoming
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Trevinho> seb128: I may have already a fix for that proposed upstream
<seb128> Trevinho, want to take over the assignment?
<seb128> wfm
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, actually no... not sure it applies
<seb128> could be another on you test once you get your nvidia config
<seb128> Wimpress, ^ please reply to my emails about that so we can move forward on those nvidia issues
<Trevinho> yeah, can give to him till I've the hw, then I can grab
<Wimpress> seb128: re nvidia hardware. Will do. 
<seb128> Wimpress, thx
<seb128> k, so tracking has nothing to review
<seb128> a few unassigned item that should need cleanup
<seb128> either GNOME SRUs or a wpa upload which I handled
<seb128> I'm cleaning those
<seb128> #topic rls-gg-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15 | Current topic: rls-gg-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1881699
<ubot5> bug 1881699 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "No analog output" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881699
<seb128> I ended up failing at testing that one
<seb128> did anybody else tried?
<Wimpress> Spoke to jibel about that one. 
<seb128> it's on my todo, I might get to it today/tomorroa
<seb128> Wimpress, oh? what was the outcome?
<Wimpress> He reproduced on a new computer and a fresh install. 
<seb128> it could be bug #1882161
<ubot5> bug 1882161 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Focal) "module-switch-on-port-avaiable: switch the port on ucm devices based on the priority" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882161
<Wimpress> Suspects sound open firmware patches in the kernel. 
<seb128> which has a fix uploaded yesterday in g-proposed
<seb128> jibel, ^ if you could give that one a try
<jibel> I'm waiting for a 5.6 or 5.7 in groovy
<Wimpress> jibel: Could test that to confirm. 
<seb128> basically https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/-/commit/3549a4d9
<jibel> kernel that is
<Laney> sounds like an assignment
<Laney> and accepting to me
<jibel> sure, I'll test that too
<seb128> thx
<seb128> Laney, right, but if that upload fix it then it's a duplicate of bug #1882161) (which is already targetted and assigned)
<ubot5> bug 1882161 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Focal) "module-switch-on-port-avaiable: switch the port on ucm devices based on the priority" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882161
<Laney> then it can be duped and/or closed?
<seb128> if the patch works yes, I'm unsure to understand the problems enough to have confident it's really the same problem
<seb128> or we could dup and reopen if needed
<Laney> no
<Laney> I mean, jibel is going to do the investigation
<Laney> if it's that bug, then he can do the duping
<Laney> if not, then we go on further
<seb128> ah, yes, that makes sense
<seb128> agreed on that plan, sorry for being slow :)
<seb128> that's it for incoming
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> nothing to handle there (I will assign the fix commited one)
<GunnarHj> seb128: I've added rls-gg-incoming to bug #1882415 (not yet in the report)
<ubot5> bug 1882415 in im-config (Ubuntu) "Graphical artifact in top-right corner, owned by ibus-ui-gtk3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882415
<seb128> hey GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> o/
<seb128> that one seems cosmetic, one report
<seb128> I would vote -1 for rls nomination
<Wimpress> Agreed 
<seb128> GunnarHj, we can discuss your options after the meeting if the goal was to raise/discuss the issue
<GunnarHj> Sure.
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> some flacky tests there which I'm retrying
<seb128> a glibc problem impacting some of the components, that's for foundations to sort out
<hellsworth> why is there an excuses test bug under libreoffice that doesn't seem related to libreoffice?
<seb128> and that's basically it
<seb128> because it's the glibc test which is failing when triggering by $others
<seb128> which is the issue I was just mentioning
<hellsworth> ah ok
<seb128> having it listed under the component helps to cross reference
<hellsworth> i see. that makes sense now.. it wasn't obvious though :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> other items are new and still backloging
<seb128> so I think that's it for this round
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-15 | Current topic: AOB
<Laney> hellsworth: you might be in a position to suggest a better string, bzr branch lp:ubuntu-archive-scripts generate-team-p-m if you want to do that
<hellsworth> Laney: sorry i don't quite get your meaning
<Laney> hm?
<Laney> I mean, if you want to improve whatever made you confused, that is where you can do it
<seb128> seems no other topic for the meeting then, let's wrap, thanks desktopers!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 16 13:57:31 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-06-16-13.31.moin.txt
<oSoMoN> thanks all
<didrocks> thx
<marcustomlinson> thankzies
<hellsworth> thanks
<hellsworth> also Laney ok thanks for the clarification :)
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: quick question.. if there's a failed line in http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libreoffice/groovy/amd64 that does not have the retry symbol, then that means it's being rerun currently right? and if the retry symbol is there then that means it is not running, right?
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, no, the states are not fully synchronized, so before retrying you should look at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running to make sure it's not currently running/queued
<Laney> you only get to retry the most recent failure for that trigger
<hellsworth> ah ok i was afraid of that
<GunnarHj> seb128: If you have a minute now: Bug #1882415 may not be the most important issue you can think of, even if it's not purely cosmetic. It's yet another example of issues where unset'ing GTK_IM_MODULE appears to "fix" it. At the same time I mentioned an example (mutter commit with regression) why I'm not ready to propose that at this time.
<GunnarHj> Sooner or later I suppose we ought to stop setting GTK_IM_MODULE=ibus also on Xorg, though. But then issues like that one should better not be open.
<GunnarHj> Would appreciate your input on the bug report.
<ubot5> bug 1882415 in im-config (Ubuntu) "Graphical artifact in top-right corner, owned by ibus-ui-gtk3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882415
<seb128> GunnarHj, I think now would be the right time to drop the imconfig hack and see how things go
<seb128> we are early in the cycle and post LTS
<GunnarHj> seb128: The timing may be right for the reason you say, but...
<GunnarHj> seb128: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/948 is ugly, and would probably show up also on Xorg if we do it.
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: would you mind please rerunning these autopkgtests? http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=groovy&arch=arm64&package=libreoffice&trigger=neon27/0.31.1-1
<hellsworth> i'll be afk for a bit..
<GunnarHj> seb128: Since it was duflu and Trevinho who made the problematic mutter commit, I feel that some desktop team involvement to sort it out would be highly desirable.
<Trevinho> GunnarHj: you mean the regression caused by https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/711 ?
<GunnarHj> Trevinho: Yes.
<GunnarHj> Trevinho: It's apparently very bad for ibus-hangul users.
<seb128> GunnarHj, did anyone confirm if that's still an issue in 3.36/focal? also that report, that didn't get much activity since it was report which suggest it doesn't impact lot of users?
<GunnarHj> seb128, Trevinho: I have been able to reproduce it. The Debian ibus maintainer is Korean, and he called my attention to it.
<GunnarHj> seb128, Trevinho: The workaround is setting GTK_IM_MODULE=ibus ...
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, that's not needed, neon27 already migrated successfully
<Trevinho> GunnarHj: I see, I'd suggest you to ask more Daniel though, as he did the MR, so may have more to remember on that than me
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, what likely happened is that it was retried by both Marco and Ken around the same time, one passed and one failed, but the one that passed was enough to make the package migrate
<GunnarHj> Trevinho: Will do. Thanks.
<Bashing-om> Channel: A question - IRT the Fridge calendar (for UWN). Who is responsible to update the meeting time ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-17
<callmepk> good morning
<jibel> hi all
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> didrocks, salut, nickel, toi?
<didrocks> Ã§a va :)
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, seb128 
<oSoMoN> didrocks, Ã§a va bien, merci! le rÃ©veil a Ã©tÃ© difficile, mais une fois la machine en route Ã§a va
<didrocks> oSoMoN: il faut tout lancer :)
<duflu> Hi jibel, didrocks, oSoMoN, seb128 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, hey duflu & Laney, how are you today?
<Laney> weird
<Laney> didn't get ipv6 just then, had to turn it off and on againâ¢ to be able to connect to irc
<Laney> moin seb128 
<duflu> Hello, IT?
<duflu> Morning Laney 
<duflu> seb128, I think you know... :) How are you?
<Laney> sup duflu 
<Laney> I could have filed a support ticket with Canonical couldn't I
<Laney> might try that next time something breaks
<seb128> duflu, I'm alright, could have done with more sleep but I'm awake now
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, Laney 
<Laney> o/ oSoMoN 
<didrocks> hey hey Laney 
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson 
<didrocks> good morning marcustomlinson 
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson 
<Laney> hey didrocks marcustomlinson!
<seb128> tseliot, hey, did you notice https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-drivers-common/1:0.8.5 ftbfs?
<tseliot> seb128, the static test didn't report anything here. I'll have a look
<seb128> tseliot, thanks
<mantas-baltix> Hi all
<mantas-baltix> Anyone noticed, that Snap store launcher is untranslated in Applications menu (Activities Overview)? I've registered a bug #1882929
<ubot5> bug 1882929 in snap-store "Ubuntu Software (Snap Store) desktop launcher Name isn't translated in Ubuntu 20.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882929
<seb128> mantas-baltix, hey, thanks for the report (but no need to mention every launchpad report on IRC)
<mantas-baltix> seb128: Sorry, but it's pretty important for international users to find Ubuntu Store in local language :)  I've translated Ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs to Lituanian language and now users can't find Ubuntu store according to instructions found in help :(
<seb128> mantas-baltix, I don't disagree it's a bug we should fix, it's just that everyone start nagging on IRC about their favorite issue...
<seb128> anyway you mentioned it now :)
<ricotz> hey desktopers!
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi :), have you made progess to update nodejs?
<seb128> hey ricotz, how are you today?
<ricotz> seb128, hi :), some sore muscles, too much sports yesterday
<seb128> ricotz, ah, well I hope you enjoyed the sport session at least :) what sport do you practice?
<ricotz> seb128, heh thanks, roadbiking and badminton
<ricotz> seb128, how are you?
<seb128> nice ones :)
<seb128> ricotz, I'm alright thanks!
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz! no progress yet, but it's on my list
<ricotz> oSoMoN, thanks, I have updated the report since it affects ff 78 which is due next week
<oSoMoN> ricotz, ouch, IÂ hadn't realized 78 required it, that becomes high priority then
<mantas-baltix> seb128, maybe I can help in some way with fixing bug #1882929 ?
<ubot5> bug 1882929 in snap-store "Ubuntu Software (Snap Store) desktop launcher Name isn't translated in Ubuntu 20.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882929
<seb128> mantas-baltix, if you want to provide a patch that fixes the issue than would be welcome yes
<mantas-baltix> seb128: I can make a patch. but I don't know where is the problem :)
<ricotz> oSoMoN, yeah, my initial report mentioned the intention of this getting backported to 78 which happened
<ricotz> oSoMoN, jfyi, this is something to keep an eye on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1644409
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1644409 in General "rustc link time optimization option is "fat"" [--,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> mantas-baltix, well that's what would help, so if you can't do that then I guess you can't help with it atm
<oSoMoN> ricotz, good catch, I'll be following that one
<oSoMoN> ricotz, it looks like the explicit python 2 build-dep can be dropped in 78 (although it will be pulled in indirectly by at least gcc-mozilla on xenial)
<ricotz> oSoMoN, good point
<ricotz> something for beta 9
<oSoMoN> yes
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, my snap-store is screwed, transparent bg, did you see that reported before?
<seb128> it prints that warning on start
<seb128> Gtk Theme parsing error: gtk.css:1:0: Failed to import: Erreur lors de lâouverture du fichier /var/lib/snapd/hostfs/usr/share/themes/Yaru/gtk-3.20/gtk.cssÂ : Permission denied
<seb128> 'error opening file' it means
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> yaru theme broke
<kenvandine> seb128: what channel is your gtk-common-themes snap?
<kenvandine> seb128: weird... gtk-common-themes hasn't been rebuilt lately in any channel
<kenvandine> seb128: oh, that parse error is parsing the theme on your host
<kenvandine> it shouldn't even be looking for that file
<ogra> well, at least you know now that "Permission denied" is french for "error opening file" ð
<seb128> kenvandine, unsure what it was, it's working now that I've restarted the machine (for other reasons)
<kenvandine> odd
<kenvandine> seb128: ok
<seb128> kenvandine, btw snap-store bugs could use some triaging, I checked the translation issue that got mentioned here earlier and was looking at the other open bug we discussed some time ago, quite some untriaged reports since
<kenvandine> i'll do that
<kenvandine> i feel like i just went through them all :)
<seb128> kenvandine, we need to fix the translation problem at some point also
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-18
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> morning duflu 
<KGB-1> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master Marco Trevisan * [open] merge request !19: ubuntu panel and display: Monitor and fractional scaling fixes * https://deb.li/3mlwF
<duflu> Awesome Trevinho
 * duflu wonders if it's late night or early morning
<Trevinho> duflu: well both :D
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks and seb128 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN 
<seb128> hey duflu, lut oSoMoN, didrocks, how are you doing today?
<duflu> seb128, OK. Slightly less overwhelmed than yesterday but still keen on a weekend, and maybe a week off some time soon. Not sure... How are you?
<seb128> I'm alright but days are buuusy and I struggle to do what I want, my todolist goes in the wrong direction as a result :/
<seb128> (and I'm on +1 maintainance today so probably going to get even more behind)
<seb128> what are you working on atm?
<duflu> seb128, now going deep into why 4K performance is poor (and CPU usage is low at the same time)
<duflu> which is a general performance problem for everyone. Only I can see it better now
<duflu> Close to my heart, because without a fix I would have to upgrade my desktops
<didrocks> good good :)
<seb128> duflu, good luck figuring it out!
<duflu> It's interesting. I don't remember ever having exhausted all CPU problems and being left with only GPU bottlenecks. Not since university at least
<duflu> Though technically we didn't have GPUs back then. They were only graphics cards
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, seb128 
<didrocks> fixing cryptsetup FTBFS which is in proposed for a week :/
<didrocks> seems the proper install was only done for risc
<didrocks> weird, the .install list the missing files: scripts/cryptsetup.conf /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/
<didrocks> and itâs not arch-specific
<didrocks> dh_missing: warning: usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/cryptsetup.conf exists in debian/tmp but is not installed to anywhere
<didrocks> didrocks@casanier:/tmp/cryptsetup-2.3.3$ find . -name cryptsetup.conf
<didrocks> ./debian/cryptsetup-bin/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/cryptsetup.conf
<didrocks> ./debian/tmp/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/cryptsetup.conf
<didrocks> O_o oh dh_missing, what are you doing to us
<didrocks> (and no diff in the file)
<didrocks> ok, dh_missing is basing now on helper by the various tools
<didrocks> not a diff itself
<didrocks> and in debian/.debhelper/generated/cryptsetup-bin/installed-by-dh_install, dh_install is using the original file path
<didrocks> not the one moved in the .install
<Laney> \O\ |O| /O/
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<Laney> greetings didrocks 
<Laney> having fun?
<didrocks> yeah, didnât know dh_missing changed behavior that way
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<didrocks> changing to usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/cryptsetup.conf works and now builds on all arch (which are not risc :p)
<Laney> moin seb128 
<Laney> i'm good, enjoying watching the rain
<Laney> you?
<Laney> thanks for looking at the team report thing
<Laney> I changed that url to be compressed yesterday
<seb128> Laney, I'm alright thanks!
<seb128> Laney, np for the team report, now I need to try to understand the report changes, is the format of that file documented somewhere btw?
<Laney> no
<Laney> presumably the problem with update-excuse bugs is that now the yaml contains the verdict (PASS) for those and the code doesn't expect that
<Laney> https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/+git/britney2-ubuntu/tree/britney2/policies/lpexcusebugs.py?h=ubuntu/rebased#n73
<seb128> right, the problem is https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-scripts/trunk/view/head:/generate-team-p-m#L260
<Laney> would it be better if that actually put the bugs in a named entry?
<Laney> so it was like
<Laney> update-excuse:
<seb128> it expect item['policy_info']['autopkgtest'] to include a package name
<Laney>   bugs: [...]
<Laney>   verdict: PASS
<seb128> ah, you are speaking about the bug problem there, sorry, I was on the exception one
<Laney> ah
<seb128> I didn't look at the bug problem yet, just saw it on the page generated when I did skip over the exception problem
<Laney> hmm I don't see the problem with autopkgtest, it looks the same to me
<Laney> well it also has the verdict too
 * Laney asks upstream about that, feels more sensible to fix the structure of the yaml to me
<Laney> autopkgtest:
<Laney>   policy_results:
<Laney>    foo/1: ...
<Laney>   verdict: PASS
<Laney> or something
<marcustomlinson> oh, logged in and forgot to say hi
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<seb128> Laney, not always, see l12248 from your yaml
<seb128>     autopkgtest:
<seb128>       verdict: REJECTED_TEMPORARILY
<seb128>     block:
<seb128> the old file didn't have instances with no package listed
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> hey didrocks and seb128, doing alright thanks, you?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm alright, a bit tired but coffee solved part of it :)
<marcustomlinson> I feel you
<didrocks> marcustomlinson: good good, thx :)
<Laney> seb128: what about it?
<Laney> moin marcustomlinson 
<seb128> Laney, that autopkgtest section has 0 package entry, is that legit?
<seb128> as said there is no case of this happening before your rebase
<Laney> I'm just trying to check what you're saying
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I might be not clear, the by-team report fails on
<seb128>             for package, results in sorted(item['policy_info']['autopkgtest'].items()):
<seb128> basically it expect the policy_info/autopkgtest sections to have a least a package/result combo
<Laney> there are cases of that, it's just that they were actually empty rather than having a verdict only
<seb128> ah
<seb128> k, so I just need to teach the code to deal with having a verdict only
<marcustomlinson> morgen Laney
<seb128> thx, I didn't notice that there were empty section, those files are big and a bit tricky to navigate
<Laney> np
<Laney> if upstream agrees I'll change that to be better
<Laney> so this might not be the final final structure
<seb128> Laney, I just found another issue
<seb128> Laney, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/laney/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#dovecot
<seb128> missing build on all: mail-stack-delivery (from 1:2.3.7.2-1ubuntu4)
<seb128> arch:all not built yet, autopkgtest delayed 
<seb128> where the current report has
<seb128> missing build on i386: mail-stack-delivery (from 1:2.3.7.2-1ubuntu4)
<seb128> Not considered 
<seb128>  
<seb128> we don't have "arch all' builds in Ubuntu
<seb128> so the new summary is more confusing imho
<Laney> fair
<seb128> also let me know if IRC comments are not the best way to give the feedback, maybe it's easier to track by replies on the list
<seb128> or bug reports?
<Laney> this is ok for now
<seb128> k
<Laney> bug reports once it's live
<seb128> ah, now it does trigger tests on archs that built even if one is failing
<seb128> that's nice :)
<seb128> (though probably waste some resources if the build is failing and the item is never going to be candidate)
<didrocks> seriously https://launchpadlibrarian.net/484788335/buildlog_ubuntu-groovy-riscv64.cryptsetup_2%3A2.3.3-1ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<didrocks> so the file is installed everywhere, but risk
<didrocks> risc*
<Laney> O_O
<didrocks> that explained why it built on risc previously and why the hack was done just to build there
<Laney> didrocks: at a quick glance: missing build-dep on systemd / passing of --with-tmpfilesdir=/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/?
<didrocks> Laney: it seems that Steeve chose the option to directly copy from source, so to minimize his diff, I will do this conditionally before dh_install on riscv
<Laney> I think it's weird to be implementing a solution just because systemd randomly isn't installed on that arch
<Laney> Passing the configure flag would bypass that requirement
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, I agree, I wanted to minimize the diff, but if we have risc machine I can access by pushing on a ppa, Iâm fine trying this ^
<didrocks> I find it sad this package to be blocked in proposed for a week, only building on one arch, blocking our encryption work because itâs not a priority to fix it apparently
<Laney> didrocks: BI LE TOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<Laney> yeah that is a bit sad
<didrocks> I need to find how it works without a branch
<didrocks> yeah, giving the work to fix to other people
<Laney> bileto?
<Laney> 'build', get a ppa, then you can dput to it
<didrocks> letâs give it a try
<Laney> it's like god coming back to the civilisation he created many generations later
<Laney> 'you did WHAT?'
 * Laney strokes the spreadsheet
<didrocks> heh :)
<didrocks> uploaded, letâs see
<seb128> Laney, btw are the autopkgtest discussions happening on an IRC channel (asking so I could join and keep en eye on those :)
<Laney> seb128: in ubuntu-release if there are any, or on the trello board https://trello.com/b/tjbSeNWo/autopkgtest, or sometimes the Launchpad project https://launchpad.net/auto-package-testing/
<duflu> Belated good morning to Laney and anyone else I missed
<duflu> And good nigh
<duflu> t
<duflu> Oops. It's not even morning there. Yeah I am late for dinner
<Laney> heh
<seb128> Laney, I meant the upstream discussions you mentioned
<Laney> oh
<Laney> #debian-release
<Laney> or sometimes #debci
<seb128> thx
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center tags 1a911d5 Sebastien Bacher upstream/3.36.3 * Upstream version 3.36.3 * https://deb.li/8SzD
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center pristine-tar 239a935 Sebastien Bacher gnome-control-center_3.36.3.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-control-center_3.36.3.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-control-center_3.36.3.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/3osUz
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center upstream/latest 6373b71 Sebastien Bacher * pushed 18 commits * https://deb.li/miay
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center signed tags 02eba19 Sebastien Bacher ubuntu/1%3.36.3-1ubuntu1 * gnome-control-center Debian release 1:3.36.3-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/3fsjg
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 41950aa Sebastien Bacher * pushed 30 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/MYuN
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 27e6b16 Cheng-Chia Tseng po/zh_TW.po * Update Chinese (Taiwan) translation * https://deb.li/ikiRx
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 01b6985 Yi-Jyun Pan po/zh_TW.po * Update Chinese (Taiwan) translation * https://deb.li/7eUv
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 4f53ea3 Yi-Jyun Pan po/zh_TW.po * Update Chinese (Taiwan) translation * https://deb.li/3ri1n
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master fdbbc2f Marco Trevisan (TreviÃ±o) debian/patches/0031-fingerprint-dialog-Don-t-limit-the-number-of-maximum.patch * account-fingerprint: Don't make flowbox children selectable * https://deb.li/asFs
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master 88bd021 sicklylife po/ja.po * Update Japanese translation * https://deb.li/3M7TU
<KGB-2> gnome-control-center ubuntu/master Sebastien Bacher * [merge] merge request !19: ubuntu panel and display: Monitor and fractional scaling fixes * https://deb.li/3mlwF
<Trevinho> seb128: mergin!
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, good morning :) thanks for the fixes!
<Trevinho> unfortunately they were not one-liners.... but well.
<oSoMoN> ricotz, FYI, I successfully built and used nodejs 12.18.0 to build firefox 78.0~b8 (groovy) in https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/nodejs-12.18-groovy/+packages, will try to get it sponsored
<KGB-2> glib ubuntu/focal c220732 Iain Lane debian/ control control.in gbp.conf * control, gbp.conf: Use the ubuntu/focal branch * https://deb.li/3kSd0
<KGB-2> glib ubuntu/focal 4ae4943 Iain Lane debian/changelog * Update changelog * https://deb.li/iWs32
<KGB-2> glib ubuntu/focal 8dc62bf Iain Lane debian/changelog * Finalise changelog * https://deb.li/peOC
<KGB-2> glib ubuntu/focal e554968 Iain Lane debian/gbp.conf * gbp.conf: Add the ubuntu tag pattern too * https://deb.li/3jimG
<KGB-2> glib signed tags ff12c4f Iain Lane ubuntu/2.64.3-1_ubuntu20.04.1 * glib2.0 Debian release 2.64.3-1~ubuntu20.04.1 * https://deb.li/1sPc
<xnox> Laney:  did you have time to look into ubiquity subtree/squash/submodules? i feel like merging subtree version, and just rolling with it.
<xnox> Laney:  if it becomes tricky, we can rewrite history and do something else later.
<Laney> xnox: will do in a minute, subtree not the others
<Laney> unless subtree is total shit but I'm sure it's not
<xnox> Laney:  ack.
<xnox> Laney:  clone it, build it, check git log -p in a d-i/sources/$project, check git log -p from top level, check gitk => it should give you a good feel of what it feels like.
<xnox> (especially what the history looks like)
<Laney> xnox: sorry, meetinghs, looking now!
<Laney> xnox: are you imagining people just commit to the d-i stuff in there or what?
<xnox> Laney:  they can, but they don't have to.
<xnox> Laney: i.e. when merging from debian it might be easier to do it from lp:$project into lp:~ubuntu-installer/$project, and then subtree pull from lp:~ubuntu-installer/$project
<Laney> right
<xnox> Laney:  but when patching in new ubuntu delta => it can be easier to do "commit d-i add foo api", "commit ubiquity use foo api"
<xnox> Laney:  in that case a merge proposal will modify things inline.
<Laney> only easier up until the next merge from debian
<xnox> that
<Laney> on the other hand if you could do the merge right in there ...
<xnox> but i also worry that salsa will move to tango, lp git <-> git salsa mirrors stop working, and we loose history.
<xnox> Laney:  so merging right there should work.
<xnox> Laney:  from top level of ubiqutiy $ git pull salsa:partman-base => should do the right thing
<xnox> but i'm not sure if "rebase" will work.
<Laney> might be good to write some quick recipes in debian/readme.how-to-work-this-thing
<xnox> (git will realise that all of the partman-base is now under d-i/source/partman-base and merge things into there.
<xnox> )
<xnox> Laney:  well ideally, we would have had the new installer by now right =)
<xnox> more readmes yes => but i was hoping to right them, as I go along and figure out the ropes of things.
<Laney> you might say that
<Laney> ok
<Laney> make an empty one that says 'if you do a new thing, write it in here, so that the next person can copy what you did'
<xnox> ack
<Laney> the history of this is super weird
<Laney> like git-ubuntu stuff and upstream stuff
<xnox> yeah
<xnox> cause we have some "ubuntu-only" projects, and i had to take something for them.
<Laney> git-ubuntu is like the 'delta' I guess
<xnox> unless you want to kill wubi support => because i think the partman-loop is the weird one.
<xnox> yeah, i mostly took d-i upstream git repo, upto the current merge-base with ubuntu, and slapped a single commit of ubuntu delta on top of that, and then subtree merge that
<Laney> d/rules update can go no?
<xnox> it still generates debian/control B-D from d-i/sources/*/debian/control
<Laney> well the get-sources stuff
<xnox> (ie. see https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/partman-base/log/ )
<xnox> Laney:  it's a no-op
<xnox> i think i did patch the script that tries to update => but it does regenerate debian/control each time.
<xnox> in some ways git submodules is easier to understand, cause it says that path over there is git repo lp:~ubuntu-installer/$project => go edit that.
<xnox> but then it's submodules, and 20 repos.
<Laney> right, neither way is perfect
<Laney> pyflakes test fails btw :>
<xnox> Yeah fixed in master
<Laney> merge ittttt
<abeato> kenvandine, hey, maybe you know, how can you set wayland as the default for a user in the greeter? so it is set on first boot?
<kenvandine> not sure about as the default
<kenvandine> abeato: you just need to select the wayland session for the user in gdm
<kenvandine> abeato: and it'll remember that until you change it again
<kenvandine> at first boot is probably a session file 
<abeato> kenvandine, right, but this is for a project where they want auto-login, so I actually need to know to do this by changing a config file
<didrocks> Laney: oh btw, your suggestion for cryptsetup works very well, thanks!
<abeato> kenvandine, but I do not know where
<Laney> ð
<kenvandine> abeato: Laney probably knows
<Laney> afaik gdm calculates the default session by itself, i don't know how to overrride it (if ou can)
<xnox> Laney:  "merge ittttt" just the pyflakes fixes into submodules/subtree/squash, or do you mean switching to subtrees?
<Laney> xnox: I just approved the MP (but with a comment about documentation)
<Laney> now I'm off until Monday, have fun burning it down
<Laney> o/
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-19
<guiverc> FYI: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/current/  has the last daily ISO as 2020-06-09 for amd64?  (I tried to run a test, and a 'fixed' issue is there as old iso); I don't need it fixed (will return to lubu, but may impact other testers)
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks 
<duflu> Yeah I noticed they're old too, guiverc 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<jibel> guiverc, smoke tests have been failing for a while, I'll do a quick check and promote them manually
<guiverc> :)  thanks jibel 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<tjaalton> could someone reupload simple-scan for focal with the correct version? the one on the queue has -0ubuntu0.18.04.0
<duflu> Hi jibel and seb128 
<duflu> and tjaalton 
<tjaalton> hi
<jibel> salut duflu 
<jibel> and all
<seb128> hey tjaalton, duflu, jibel! how are you?
<seb128> tjaalton, thx for the SRU reviews!
<duflu> seb128, going well. I have my first fix for 4K performance just about done but it's the usual story of multiple different fixes will be needed. You?
<seb128> tjaalton, noted for the reupload, I'm adding to my backlog and try to do that in a bit
<seb128> duflu, I'm alright, it's friday :)
<tjaalton> seb128: thanks, yeah it's a minor issue but probably something to fix anyway :)
<seb128> right
<duflu> Also some massively common gnome-shell crashes are about to be fixed in focal and bionic. That's nice
<jibel> seb128, doing like a friday
<jibel> and you?
<seb128> ups
<duflu> The other button
<seb128> I'm alright thanks, trying to get some more work done today before the w.e :)
<jibel> don't be upset when I ask how you are ;)
<seb128> :-p
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> happy Friday!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, seb128, happy Friday
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson 
<tjaalton> seb128: steve's concerns on bug 1879475 should be addressed before accepting evince?
<ubot5> bug 1879475 in evince (Ubuntu Focal) "SRU the current 3.36.5 stable update" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1879475
<seb128> tjaalton, that was fixed by reverting the change in .3
<seb128> sorry I didnt make it clear on the bug
<seb128> the initial rejected SRU was .2, I just retitled and reupliaded a newer version
<luna_> hey
