#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-06
<artnay> hey guys
<artnay> about the new icons... did tigert anything to do with them?
<artnay> btw, they look quite good although they don
<artnay> t follow tango style or hig that closely
<artnay> does anybody have any idea do the action icons inherit tango? :o
<artnay> that would make sense
<artnay> quiet as always :)
<artnay> so how can we as a team help with that? is any help wanted or needed?
<derek[] > with what?
<artnay> while I am happy to see those, they leave a lot of questions :o
<artnay> with the new icon set
<derek[] > gnome?
<artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperIcons
<artnay> I don
<artnay> t get why those arent under /Artwokr
<artnay> what is that icon with the text file and a progress bar in front of it?
<artnay> good to see that universal signs (such as usb) are being used, not to mention text on cd media icons
<artnay> I disliked the different colour approach, it doesnt tell enough
<artnay> derek[] : what do you think of those?
<derek[] > I agree that the use of the universal signs as the USB's is very good.
<artnay> but it is against some rules :o
<derek[] > which?
<artnay> well maybe not that but at least all the "unnecessary" text is
<artnay> HIG
<artnay> and wiki states too that no text should be used if it is not needed
<artnay> but I for one say that it is much more better to have an extension than lots of different colours to differ each file types
<artnay> people should not learn that ones mp3 player is not able to play "blue and yellow" audio files
<derek[] > I would say that if they make the colour scheme a standard, then it can be helpful
<derek[] > but if the colour scheme keeps changing in every release, it serves no purpose
<derek[] > Who is developing this artwork by the way?
<artnay> my bet it is tigert
<artnay> as mark said at LCA that the artist will come from scandinavia, and looking back at times...
<artnay> if only the colour scheme would be identical at least in FOSS icons
<artnay> freedesktop.org ;o
<derek[] > I don't know who/what is tigert, mark, LCA..
<artnay> tigert did the old gnome icon theme, mark is sabdfl (the man behind canonical and freecd etc.) and LCA was a linux conference in ausrtalia (held in january)
<artnay> I guess freedesktop.org doesn't have a word on MIME colours
<artnay> please prove me wrong
<lapo> hi there
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-07
<klepas> anyone awake?
<klepas> ...
<klepas> artnay: ping
<klepas> miketech: ping
<klepas> Tm_T: ping
<klepas> bach_skol: ping
<klepas> maswan: ping
<klepas> omeg: ping
<Tm_T> klepas: pong
<klepas> yay, someone
<klepas> have you read the recent mails?
<Tm_T> nails?
<Tm_T> ;(
<Tm_T> what mails
<maswan> I have read lots of recent mails. Don't know what you are talking about though, klepas 
<jsgotangco> klepas: you might want to consider adding the artwork with the example-content package
<jsgotangco> there are currently 3 or 4 wallpapers on it taken from art.ubuntu.com i believe
<klepas> anyone awake?
<andreasn> oh, this channel do exist
<andreasn> is the default mail client for dapper thunderbird or evolution?
<andreasn> thinking of adding the tango tb-theme to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/AdditionalThemes
<lukacu> i think its evolution
<andreasn> ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-08
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<klepas> hey
<jsgotangco> hi
<lapo> hi
<lukacu> a bit late but: hi :)
<andreasn> when is this weekend-meeting supposed to start?
<andreasn> I never understood what timezone and stuff it was supposed to be
<lukacu> GMT timezone
<andreasn> ah, ok
<klepas> just sometime
<klepas> :)
<klepas> mark and i thought this would be a good method
<klepas> and we were willing to try it out :)
<andreasn> hello klepas
<lukacu> so there is no fixed time yet?
<klepas> not really
<klepas> just 'the weekend'
<klepas> :)
<lukacu> oh, and on #ubuntu-meeting?
<klepas> no
<klepas> since there is no designated time
<lukacu> here then?
<klepas> we don't want to disturb that [sacred]  channel
<klepas> :)
<lukacu> lol
<klepas> here, yea :)
<lukacu> ok
<klepas> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3880195342.html <-- cute idea
<lukacu> :)
<klepas> lukacu: i'm going to blog about this..
<klepas> i was hoping to stick some sort of cute image into the entry
<klepas> to sort of entice people
<klepas> chance you've got any icons that would be nice to add?
<lukacu> what kind of icons?
<klepas> just something cute :)
<klepas> anything really
<klepas> if you've got something i can add to a ~445x445 image
<lukacu> um ... no
<klepas> no worries then
<klepas> how about wallpapers?
<klepas> i've got this sort of weird thumbnailing idea
<klepas> any nice wallpapers?
<lapo> gnome-backgrounds
<klepas> sure
<klepas> it would be nice if i could get 4
<klepas> i've got one already
<klepas> 3 more, preferably ubuntu/kubuntu flavoured
<lapo> klepas, I mean gnome-backgrounds package
<klepas> oh
<klepas> what about it?
<klepas> oh
<klepas> i getcha
<lapo> we have a pretty nice collection this time
<klepas> yea :)
<klepas> i was after something more Ubuntu/Kubuntu flavoured
<lukacu> bbl
<jimmac> howdy
<lukacu> hi jimmac
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-09
<lapo> hi
<lapo> er, hi
<andreasn> hello again lapo
<lapo> ciao andreasn
<klepas> moin
<justin__k> hi all, as anyone put their hand up for art team leader yet?
<justin__k> i nominate pascal
<kamstrup> Does anybody here know if there are performance differences between metacity themes?
<kamstrup> I wan't a really light one.
<kamstrup> for the SandSkater theme
<artnay> kamstrup: there is some performance issues with some themes, which ones are you thinking?
<artnay> klepas: hey :)
<kamstrup> artnay: I have a few in mind. CHeck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SandSkater
<kamstrup> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/SandSkater
<kamstrup> that was
<artnay> I'm quite sure it will be quite lightweight no matter which one you choose of those
<artnay> kamstrup: if bg is too much for computer, maybe one should use something like IceWM or *box :p
<kamstrup> No way artnay :)
<kamstrup> I'm running Gnome on my 700MHz box
<kamstrup> A solid background gives a pretty noticable speed gain
<kamstrup> as does the thinice gtk engine
<kamstrup> :)
<kamstrup> Things are pretty snappy infact
<artnay> I'm on P3 500 MHz & 128 MB now
<kamstrup> hehe
<kamstrup> You know the feeling then
<artnay> damn it's taking long from asus to replace mobo
<artnay> have you guys found any performance tests between SVG and PNG rendering on low-end computers?
<artnay> I've seen some tests but they were run on fast computer (> 2 GHz)
<kamstrup> hmmm
<kamstrup> no
<kamstrup> do you have any ideas on how to do that?
<artnay> generally PNG should be more ideal to your project
<kamstrup> I would guess so
<kamstrup> but I'm not sure
<kamstrup> Still Life is png, and has some of the qualities I'm looking for.
<artnay> too bad it's not offered as SVGs, too
<kamstrup> it will require a good deal of work to get into shape
<kamstrup> yes
<kamstrup> that would ease modifications
<artnay> maybe you could ask the author for SVG/XCF/PSD
<artnay> shouldn't we create a subcategory for proposed themes?
<artnay> to wiki
<artnay> I mean, wiki is quite a chaos at the moment IMHO
<artnay> and henrik mentioned removing ToDo list... I think that would be a bad idea since there's no any other page that covers all the information
<artnay> that's why there should be separate pages for different *buntus
<artnay> no offence but I think we should renew many parts of /Artwork
<artnay> is there really any reason to have a separate official section? why isn't the new icon set covered there? is it official? that kind of questions might raise to people new to ubuntu-artwork
<artnay> btw, who is working on that icon set? tigert?
<artnay> AndyFitz: do you happen to have any idea of that? :o
<artnay> I find it rather funny that they ask people to send comments to artwork team when artwork team is as much informed as anybody else
<artnay> lapo: I see you've been highlighting me ~a week ago :o
<artnay> I'm quite surprised while reading ubuntu-artwork ML (march list)
<artnay> have you checked the archive?
<andreasn> artnay: drew what theme?
<artnay> andreasn: umh, pardon?
<andreasn> "btw, who is working on that icon set? tigert?"
<artnay> yeah, the official icon set which came out of blue
<klepas> andreasn: someone hired
<klepas> by canonical
<artnay> from scandinavia as has been said earlier (a month ago)
<andreasn> I have no idea who it is, but it's not tigert. He's working for Nokia now
<artnay> my guess it's tigert since he's past is somewhat gnome and art centric and he's from finland (scandinavia)
<artnay> but one could always have some hobbyist projects on freetime, if it's a passion ;9
<andreasn> I think tigert would have refused doing anything else but a tango-set
<artnay> it's surprising what money can do
<andreasn> but if it is him, he hasn't mentioned it at all
<artnay> there's such thing as NDA
<artnay> but that goes against CoC
<artnay> lots of nice acronyms, umh
<klepas> have you guys had a look at the proposed theme packages that the art team could begin and maintain?
<klepas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/AdditionalThemes
<andreasn> Tango also has a Thunderbird theme, but I wasn't sure if I should add that or not
<artnay> klepas: sure have
<andreasn> to the wiki-page
<klepas> andreasn: add it to the list
<artnay> but the thing is, that we're already three months late
<klepas> i want to put myself forth as a maintainer/leader/person who works on a complete Tango package for Ubuntu
<andreasn> klepas: sound great!
<klepas> so everything from GDM to splash to GTK to Metacity to Firefox and Thunderbird themes... etc.
<klepas> and wallpapers
<klepas> and finally, of course the icon set
<andreasn> a lot of apps are starting to use tango upstream now
<andreasn> latest f-spot, banshee etc.
<klepas> we also want to decide on a new art team leadeer
<artnay> klepas: there's no reason to decide it now
<klepas> not right now
<klepas> but within the next week
<artnay> once someone who has all the time and skill to be responsible comes out, then it's time
<artnay> at the moment there really doesn't seem to such person
<artnay> at least not on IRC
<klepas> artnay: yourself?
<artnay> klepas: sorry, I doubt that big time
<klepas> andyfitz
<klepas> maybe not in time wise
<artnay> neither of us have the time needed
<klepas> but hey, things change :)
<artnay> hopefully they do
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/thb-ubuntu-splashes.png
<artnay> I find it rather strange that mark used quite strong words on the ML
<klepas> yea
<klepas> well considering i met him
<klepas> and he gave me a lift back to my home town
<artnay> to me it seems canonical really didn't care for artwork until they woke up some time ago
<klepas> we had a chance to talk
<klepas> and now i sort of got annoyed at what we agreed upon :)
<klepas> my fault :)
<artnay> since volvoguy and I have sent many emails considering ubuntu-artwork, and we haven't received replies...
<klepas> brb
<artnay> volvoguy sent a few mails in july, I did send back is august or september
<artnay> and mark also states that there has to be somebody who tells what to do with ubuntu-artwork (project leader), although it's been said that artwork team doesn't have a word on artwork that will be on the ubuntu CD media
<artnay> so I'd say that canonical should have publicized the much spoken branding guide (stating what they want from ubuntu-artwork) which would have helped artwork team to set the priorites
<artnay> and that way co-operation would have been possible
<artnay> since I really see no person outside of canonical who would have the influence to say what artwork team should focus and work on
<artnay> what do you guys think?
<andreasn> perhaps the reason that the artwork-team has no influence is because canonial don't trust that the team can produce good stuff
<andreasn> hm, need to run sonn
<andreasn> as a contributor to the tango project and a ubuntu user, I think it would be cool if the artwork team could work together with the community we build around tango
<andreasn> to make it not only a novell dominated project
<andreasn> but that is just me thinking aloud :)
<andreasn> time to run
<andreasn> I'll be back in a couple of hours
<klepas> artnay: hey
<artnay> klepas: pong
<klepas> reploed
<lapo> hi
<klepas> anyone awake?
<kamstrup> klepas: aye
<klepas> hey, cool
<klepas> what are your thoughts on the themed package ideas
<klepas> for universe
<klepas> and one which is of top notch for mainstream, if it's good enough?
<kamstrup> hmmm
<kamstrup> it's hard when we don't have anython really concrete atm
<kamstrup> I think there's been a bit too much of
<kamstrup> "hey this icon theme is cool, hey this gtk theme is cool - let's stick them together and call it a theme"
<klepas> yep
<klepas> i think we can be safe though
<klepas> to say that Tango could do with a complete Ubuntu (GNOME) and Kubuntu (KDE) pacakge
<kamstrup> Tango should definitely be used...
<klepas> i'm putting myself up as a person who would be willing to work on that
<klepas> given that some work needs to be done
<klepas> i'm going to spend all of this weekend compiling some sort of coherent Ubuntu Tango package
<klepas> There would need to be a GNOME and KDE package (Ubuntu and Kubuntu) with GDM/KDM, splash screen, wallpaper(s), GTK/KDE themes, Metacity/KDE window decoration themes and finally the icon sets. One official, complete Tango package.
<klepas> eventually both
<klepas> but i'll do the ubuntu (GNOME one) this weekend
<klepas> what do you think kamstrup 
<klepas> interested in helping out in the tango one
<artnay> klepas: in which areas would like to have a helping hand?
<klepas> well basically
<klepas> i want to get a Tango set together
<klepas> by Sunday eve
<klepas> starting with the GNOME stuff
<klepas> GTK, Metacity, icon set, splash screen and maybe about 2-5 wallpapers
<klepas> all Tango
<artnay> I might be able to help you tomorrow, I'm leaving soon to this place: http://www.pacifique.fi/home.shtml x)
<klepas> yea
<klepas> i had a look at that
<klepas> damn
<klepas> pretty sassy
<lapo> hi
<kamstrup> klepas: sorry for keeping you...
<kamstrup> I'll spend most of my time on the SandSkater theme
<kamstrup> but i like the idea
<kamstrup> ofcourse :)
<kamstrup> it is Tango after all :)
<kamstrup> klepas: will you go ubuntu brown?
<klepas> for the tango things?
<klepas> no
<klepas> because it's tango
<klepas> the themes _do not_ have even follow the Ubuntu colour schema
<klepas> they are different themes in their own right
<lapo> I think ubuntu should follow tango color shcema, and tango is not a theme
<lapo> tango is actually a bunch of guidelines to make application of various different enviroment looks nice side by side, the icons are a consequences of it
<lapo> tango is more a style than a theme
<klepas> yes
<klepas> but in this case we need to play along with the rules
<kamstrup> there is brown colors in the tango palette
<kamstrup> is=are
<klepas> so Ubuntu will feature it's own colour schema, icon set, and so forth
<klepas> and we get to create themed-packages 
<lapo> kamstrup: yes, very similar to ubuntu ones
<kamstrup> exactly
<klepas> one or two of which, if good could end up in mainstream as additional choices
<lapo> klepas: i don't know if this is the right course of action
<lapo> doing a complete theme is almost impossible
<lapo> you kno how many icons should be in a theme to make it really complete, and so offer a good desktop experience?
<lapo> ugh...I'll rephrase it
<lapo> do you know how many icons should be in a theme to make it really complete, and so offer a good desktop experience?
<klepas> a lot
<klepas> and tango has the best chance of ever completing that
<klepas> i don't think that Ubuntu should have it's own icon set
<klepas> making a completely new icon set
<klepas> that is complete
<klepas> will take year
<lapo> if you have a really cool theme not following tango guidelines, you'll have a bunch of cool icons not integrated with the rest of the desktop
<klepas> *years
<klepas> yes!
<klepas> of course
<lapo> exactly
<klepas> but no one will listen
<lapo> why?
<klepas> because they've already hired people
<klepas> and we don't get to say "let's use tango" as the art team
<klepas> we can't
<klepas> so
<klepas> we get to make themed-packages
<lapo> where's the problem, can't the hider people follow the tango guidelines?
<lapo> hired even
<klepas> one or two of which might be included with the CD as additional choices
<lapo> consider that the next gnome icon theme will be tango styled
<klepas> because people higher up have decided to make something completely new
<klepas> lapo: i know
<lapo> you can make something completely new following the tango guidelines, iy's not really a problem
<klepas> this is what both Andy and I have been trying to get other people to understand
<klepas> it'll take far too long to make something new
<lapo> have you ever used redhat/fedora?
<klepas> and it won't ever be complete in the time we have
<klepas> seen it extensively
<klepas> used it several times
<klepas> i know, blue curve
<klepas> however this doesn't help us
<klepas> we don't have any other options
<klepas> what these folks higher up would like
<lapo> blue curve is one of the most complete and cool icons theme around
<klepas> are themed-packages
<klepas> one of them ought to be tango
<lapo> but it doesn't blend well with the rest 'cause you have gnome/kde icons with it
<klepas> a complete tango package for both the GNOME (Ubuntu) and KDE (Kubuntu) dekstop
<klepas> eventually it will
<klepas> these themed-packages would include everything from icon sets to splash screens to wallpapers to GTK themed to metacity themes and so forth
<klepas> that is what we're doing
<klepas> and i would like to get at least a Tango package up and running
<klepas> so, how does that sound?
<lapo> that's cool, but I repeat I fear the new dapper icon theme will be a new bluecurve :-/
<lapo> a theme impossible to complete that will be dropped in the futere
<lapo> future even
<klepas> i fear the same
<klepas> the best way to show people that there is a way to make a consistent desktop
<klepas> is use tango
<klepas> or a variant
<lapo> there's alredy a community around tango, there's alredy good guideline, ad there's alredy lots of icons
<klepas> and the easiest way to do that is to make a package that will be added at least to universe
<lapo> consider lot of application are using tango icons
<lapo> I mean upstream
<klepas> lapo: these themed-paclages
<klepas> can be added almost instantly to the universe repo
<klepas> if they are complete and good
<klepas> this could be in universe by next week
<klepas> we just need to get some more work together
<lapo> my point is that's impossible to build a complete theme
<artnay> discussion, finally. hi guys.
<lapo> way too many icon to do
<klepas> so
<klepas> does anyone have any tango-themed SVG wallpapers?
<klepas> or splash screens for that matter
<artnay> klepas: umh, so you basically want to make a debian package out of it. do you know how many of people involved in tango project are using ubuntu as well?
<klepas> no idea
<klepas> but at least 5
<klepas> :)
<klepas> artnay: that's the deal
<klepas> with all these themed-packages
<klepas> that's what mark would love
<artnay> you might want to ask these people (including people who are offering themes for other programs such as fx and tb) to get involved in this
<lapo> svg is not that good for wallpapers klepas
<klepas> check the irc channel
<klepas> i've asked a few times
<artnay> klepas: sure, but I have not seen any comments yet
<klepas> yep
<klepas> hence why i'm here
<artnay> really? I must have missed that then
<Tm_T> artnay: !
<artnay> hey Tm_T 
<Tm_T> you idler
<artnay> tell me about it... I really haven't had a computer for the last two months
<artnay> only occasionally
<Tm_T> shame on you!
* Tm_T keeps kicking artnays arse
<artnay> klepas: so would you use tango with defaults? (no any alternations using ubuntu palette etc.)
<lapo> klepas: regarding tango people using ubuntu, andreasn and jimmac (don't tell novell :-)) use ubuntu, surelly others
<artnay> I think it's ok that canonical hired an artist, but the whole thing with ubuntu-artwork is really confusing, I'd say
<artnay> it has been since the beginning
<Tm_T> aye
<artnay> artwork team was formed, umh, a month or two before breezy?
<Tm_T> who's doing and what? what should be one and when? where's my pants btw
<artnay> I ate your pants
<Tm_T> ah then
<artnay> that's the only thing I know ;)
<klepas> artnay: yea, i'd use tango like it is
<artnay> I think it's against CoC what's happening with the icon set, although I can take that (you know, let him/her have artistical freedom for now etc.)
<klepas> once inkscape css support stuff comes in changing icon set colouration ought to be a breezye
<klepas> *breeze
<artnay> but the thing is that didn't co-operate hard enough before that, so it's better than nothing
<klepas> so applying the Ubuntu colour scheme would be easy
<lapo> klepas: uhm
<lapo> the ubuntu color scheme should die imho
<klepas> "01:38 < lapo> the ubuntu color scheme should die imho" - this channel is logged :P
<artnay> oh, the renewed human theme... edges get pixelated
<lapo> changing a the colors in an icon can't be done automagically, css or not
<artnay> although fc5 has too :/
<artnay> lapo: that's basically what andy is doing at the moment, offering icons and he lefts colours to be decided by someone else
<artnay> since the same thing is happening with tango
<klepas> so...
<klepas> is someone willing to pitch in with this Tango package?
<artnay> some people really dislike the colour of folder and wastebasket in tango
<lapo> artnay: basically only a bunch of icons may need a color change, so I think it's easier to do it manually, and doing an icon theme that inherits tango then
<artnay> lapo: yeah, in some occasions
<artnay> if you need to change the colour of folder icon, it could be done easily with css support
<lapo> and not all the icons are svg
<lapo> artnay: and what will you do for the pngs?
<artnay> but if there's already fx tango theme done, why change all the action icons?
<artnay> they're most commonly used
<lapo> frankly speaking I think it's a waste of goo energy, but it's only my humble opinion
<artnay> if they would be the same, artwork team should do only minor changes to tango themes
<artnay> since there really isn't much people involved in this and we didnt even have any goals set a month ago or so
* klepas pokes
<lapo> artnay: toi do an "ubuntization" of tango you don't really need a lot of people
<lapo> since the icons yo would want to repleace are not that much
<lapo> let's say 10-15?
<artnay> lapo: yeah, but it's not just the icons as you mentioned before (blue curve)
<artnay> lapo: and that's the problem, "the icons I want to replace" :)
<artnay> nobody cares which icon I'm thinking of, the decision should come somewhere else (as a team maybe, canonical, who knows)
<artnay> that's been the trouble, we all have our ideas but creating a working process out of it has been a mess
<artnay> if you look at the list, people aren't co-operating. that's why I suggested to seek for help from tango oriented people
<lapo> I don't follow ubuntu's list sorry
<artnay> some examples... bvc is having fun with metacity themes but how many times have you spoken to him? what about this nikolai (medicine mask)? at least andy is here :)
<lapo> I am a tango oriented guyt and I'm here to help, btw :-)
<artnay> there's lots of decent artwork, we should just utilize it
<lapo> there isn't some sort of artistic director in ubuntu?
<artnay> no, there hasn't been since volvoguy
<lapo> where's this volvoguy?
<artnay> and if you take into account what happened when team formed, there really hasn't been artwork process to the day
<artnay> he had some health problems, you might want ask him
<artnay> he's recovering at the moment
<Tm_T> hmm hmm
<Tm_T> artnay: who?
<artnay> Tm_T: aaron
<artnay> a.k.a volvoguy
<Tm_T> aah
<Tm_T> I remember him
<Tm_T> artnay: http://www.tm-travolta.net/shots/current.png
<Tm_T> ;(
<artnay> how come my sentences are missing verbs most of the time... :)
<artnay> too many things to be done
<Tm_T> haha
* Tm_T is still eating painkillers
<Tm_T> so I'm not in my sharpest knife
<artnay> Tm_T: KDE is great with altering KWin bordering
<Tm_T> and also my Kicker is bit unusual
<Tm_T> oh, you haven't seen my kmenu?
<Tm_T> http://www.tm-travolta.net/pics/temp/kmenu-1.png
<klepas> Aaron Michael Waite
<Tm_T> best in KDE: make it look yourself
<artnay> is that something eatable? I want more customizable menu 
<Tm_T> artnay: more?
<artnay> the shots by novell (G) looked interesting
<Tm_T> nah
<artnay> Tm_T: I'd like to have some other concept, that's it. umh, maybe KDE 4? :o
<Tm_T> aye
<Tm_T> KDE4 will be a lot different
<artnay> klepas: do you have any idea to whom has this UI shapeout has been assigned in london?
<artnay> klepas: I only find "we" etc.
<klepas> no idea
<klepas> you're up early AndyFitz 
<AndyFitz> about to head to bed klepas :-)   just finishing my green and gold slurpee
<AndyFitz> its awesome to find those colours in slurpee .  apparently is a commonwealth games promotion
<klepas> cool
<klepas> i'm working on a tango gdm
<AndyFitz> awesome mate
<AndyFitz> thanks 
<leetcharmer> hihi all :D
<leetcharmer> how's the art weekend going?
<artnay> hi leetcharmer. if you look at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/irclogs/ (ctrl f artwork), you'll find that there's been more discussion today than during the whole last week... ;)
<artnay> so better than nothing, eh?
<leetcharmer> ya!
<leetcharmer> I heart the new icons!
<leetcharmer> so -- is there going to be a UI change? or is that frozen?
<artnay> there was artwork freeze back in breezy development days, but if you look at the schedule now, no
<artnay> it's not frozen
<leetcharmer> ahh, kk -- well -- I'm trying to get the hang of Inkscape -- but I have GIMP skills, have anything you'd like me to make?
<artnay> klepas will pack tango, do you think you could help him?
<leetcharmer> what can I do for him?
<lapo> nobody here is in touch with the payed artist who's doing icons for canonical?
<artnay> have a chat with klepas
<artnay> lapo: ironically, no
<artnay> I expectec some guys from canonical to pop up
<leetcharmer> klepas: do you need any help?
<artnay> leetcharmer: he does :)
<lapo> artnay: do you mean today?
<leetcharmer> :D
<artnay> lapo: on the weekend
<artnay> but I'm leaving soon
<lapo> isn't now the weekend? :-)
<artnay> party will begin in 45 minutes
<leetcharmer> oh?
<artnay> lapo: I guess it's weekend everywhere now, yeah. some patience ;)
<leetcharmer> :D
<Tm_T> artnay: hey, you were doing colour scheme etc earlier, right? never got anything finished?
<artnay> Tm_T: what colour scheme?
<artnay> actually I wasn't working with colour theme, just using one :p
<Tm_T> erh
<Tm_T> pics!
<Tm_T> artnay: give me screenshot or something about it :)
<artnay> well there's that one in forums, but it's months old
<Tm_T> just throw link to me then
<artnay> and as that computer's mobo has been dead for the last two months, I haven't done anything with it (was doing moodin KDM theme)
<artnay> now I'm finally with my P3 500 MHz & 128 MB for the last two days
<artnay> internet, I so missed you
<artnay> :P
<leetcharmer> :D
<leetcharmer> :/ gotta put my computer back together so I can restore his HDD's data -- bbl :D
<artnay> finally my friends are driving here to pick me up
<klepas> sleep time
<klepas> cheerio
<heno> Hello all!
<heno> Anybody want to help me find some aye-candy for the website?
<lapo> hi
<heno> We recently cleaned up this page a bit: http://www.ubuntu.com/community
<heno> by removing much text and adding some icons
<heno> we are planning to do the same on other pages too
<heno> so good ideas for little icons and graphics would be helpful
<lapo> heno: canonical?
<heno> lapo: yes
* heno is Henrik Omma
<lapo> cool, may I talk to youabout new dappericons?
<lapo> I think you guys you should develope new dapper icons following the tango guidelines
<lapo> there are a lot advantages in it
<lapo> * better desktop experience trough bette integration (many apps are using a tango style icon upstream)
<lapo> * less icons to develope (you can change only the revelant icons for branding and inherit the rest)
<lapo> * tango has already a nice community
<heno> I don't know the tango specs that well, but it sounds sensible
<heno> Someone should start a 'transition to Tango' spec for the next conferance
<lapo> when I saw new dapper icons on ubuntu wiki, I tried to tangoify them a bit just to proove what I'm saying
<lapo> those icons can be "tangoified" with really few efforts
<lapo> check it out:
<lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/dappericons/side-by-side.png
<lapo> the tango guidelines are well defined and simple, following them crating new icons is not really difficult
<heno> Cool! You really should post that on the wiki
<lapo> consider that doing a *complete* icon theme is not really possible
<lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/dappericons/dappericons-tango-style-blending.png
<heno> I think your icons ook better in many cases
<heno> more interesting perspective
<lapo> I did those icons only to prove what I'm saying I have no time to do a full set
<lapo> but canonical, could make their artists follow the tango guidelines
<lapo> or look for someone on the tango-artists ml who could do the icons
<lapo> I have to go now, if you need help you can find me on irc on #tango, or you can mail me calamandrei at gmail
<lapo> ciao
<andreasn> hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-10
<klepas> sunday morning
<Tm_T> ouch
<lapo> hi
<klepas> chance we could pool what people have been working together?
<klepas> into a sort of giant collection
<klepas> and then mark and whoever else can have a look at what was produced
<andreasn> hello klepas
<klepas> hey andreasn 
<klepas> how's it going?
<andreasn> just fine. Working on tangofication of thunderbird for the moment
<klepas> cool
<klepas> working on a sort of GDM
<andreasn> cool
<andreasn> tango-ubuntu-ish?
<klepas> yea
<klepas> andreasn: i need some tango wallpapers
<klepas> SVG
<andreasn> sure
<klepas> i can only find the JPEGs and PNGs
<klepas> chance you could point me to some?
<klepas> these would go into an official universe tango package
<andreasn> I see
<andreasn> wouldn't it be cooler to put ubuntu-branding on these instead?
<andreasn> I just did the wallpaper for fun
<klepas> nah
<klepas> this is as a complete tango package for ubuntu
<klepas> doesn't have to follow any ubuntu branding
<klepas> colour schemas, etc.
<klepas> just a complete tango package to go into the repositories
<klepas> including metacity, gdm, splash, wallpapers, icon set, etc..
<andreasn> what would the target group of that package be?
<klepas> anyone who wants to completely tango-ify their desktop
<andreasn> I see
<klepas> mark wants these sort of themed-packages
<klepas> i figured one of them ought to be Tango
<andreasn> yeah
<andreasn> the ones I want to be aware of tango is developers
<klepas> so
<andreasn> not end-users
<klepas> yea, same
<andreasn> but, well, anyway
<klepas> but mark would like these packages
<klepas> can work on that later
<andreasn> I'll see if I can locate the wallpaper
<klepas> so, got some SVG splashes or wallpapers?
<klepas> cheers mate :)
<andreasn> it seems the link on art.gnome.org is broken
<andreasn> there is a tango-splash on kde-look that I made that perhaps is reusable
<andreasn> I might have the svg around
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/tango-desktop-1024.svg
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/splash-top.svg
<klepas> yes
<klepas> thanks mate
<andreasn> however, I don't want to make the impression that tango is the road to all branding, be sure to point that out to mark
<klepas> i was up till 4 am this morning trying to find this
<andreasn> road to the end of all branding in distros I mean
<klepas> yea
<klepas> i agree with you guys
<andreasn> great!
<klepas> but sadly we don't have much of a say in this
<andreasn> I know
<klepas> so for now
<klepas> a bunch of themed packages
<andreasn> putting it in extras is a good start
<klepas> one of which will make it into mainstream perhaps
<klepas> if it is good enough
<klepas> will have to be the start
<klepas> and i think Tango ought to be that extra package
<klepas> and if not, it would make it into universe
<klepas> and i'll maintain it
<andreasn> it would also be nice to customize some of the icons in tango to fit better with the brown desktop background
<andreasn> orange folders and stuff like that
<andreasn> as blue goes horribly bad together with brown
<andreasn> have you got the tango-firefox theme already?
<andreasn> https://addons.mozilla.org/themes/moreinfo.php?id=1565&application=firefox
<klepas> yea
<klepas> got it
<andreasn> great
<klepas> nah, don't need to customise the icons
<klepas> because the package will include tango wallpapers :)
<klepas> everything tango
<andreasn> ok
<andreasn> hopefully the tb-theme will be working good soon aswell
<klepas> you're working on that now?
<andreasn> yep
<andreasn> some of the theming-stuff is rather horrible
<klepas> :)
<klepas> thanks dude
<andreasn> hidden in some random file deep-deep-down... :(
<andreasn> :)
<klepas> this GDM ought to be kick ass
<andreasn> nice
<andreasn> would you like to have a sample of the tb-theme?
<andreasn> might help me find some bugs
<klepas> yea
<klepas> sure
<klepas> andreasn: you wouldn't know how to test out gdm themes using xnest?
<andreasn> I have no idea actually :(
<klepas> no worries
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/thunderbird.jar
<klepas> i'll figure it out
<klepas> my version of thunderbird must be outdated
<klepas> icons won't work with it
<andreasn> you need 1.5 to run it
<klepas> not in universe
<klepas> mh
<klepas> might have to get it from source
<klepas> how did you get it?
<andreasn> it is in dapper universe
<andreasn> I think
<klepas> ah, okay
<klepas> i was considering upgrading to dapper
<klepas> is it stable enough?
<andreasn> it works ok for me
<andreasn> but I was mostly upgrading because I needed thunderbird 1.5
<andreasn> to theme it and stuff
<andreasn> and dapper also include f-spot with the new tango icons jakub drew
<klepas> nice
<andreasn> fresher icons for banshee and other stuff aswell
<andreasn> and a working version of hplip as I'm drawing icons for that app aswell
<andreasn> so I guess you could say that my reason for upgrading to dapper was icons ;)
<klepas> yay
<klepas> got gdm testing working
<klepas> andreasn: fair reason if you're an artist :)
<andreasn> heh, yeah
<klepas> curse poor SVG gradient support in GDM!
<andreasn> librsvg?
<klepas> is that the package that controls SVG rendering?
<andreasn> it is in most other gnome apps
<andreasn> and it must be in gdm aswell, but I'm not sure
<klepas> andreasn: this GDM theme is soon done :)
<klepas> andreasn: do you know where i can find the SVG to that other dark blue-ish Tango wallpaper with the massive folder in it?
<klepas> andreasn: done!
<klepas> andreasn: i just need a decent background
<klepas> anyone awake?
<klepas> andreasn: ping
<andreasn> klepas: pong
<andreasn> klepas: neat
<klepas> andreasn: you've seen it?
<klepas> [http://wombat.nuxified.com/tmpfiles/tango-renewed-screenshot.jpg] 
<omeg> That is very nice.
<omeg> I do, however, suggest that the contrast of the Tango! title is changed.
<omeg> It's currently white on light grey (except for the shadow).
<klepas> omeg: yea
<omeg> The small text in that image is also really small. I personally would make it a little larger.
<omeg> Maybe that would help the hinting, too.
<klepas> good point
<omeg> Did you make that, by the way?
<klepas> i fear though with the 'tango!' logo that changing it to black will make it stand out way too much
<klepas> yea
<klepas> artwork sprint after all :)
<klepas> before i hit the sacks tonight i want to get another one done
<omeg> Well, it's nice. :) And I'm glad that not _everything_ is made to be brown. I mean, sure, brown is Ubuntu's color, but I think that it's usually a little overused.
<klepas> this was for the Tango package
<omeg> I would have a look at finding a solution to that Tango! logo for you, but you probably made it in GIMP, right?
<klepas> because the other GDM wasn't to my liking
<klepas> no
<omeg> Photoshop?
<klepas> everything you see in the screenshot is either XML or SVG
<klepas> Inkscape
<klepas> everything
<omeg> Ah, then I could open it in Illustrator, maybe...
<klepas> which dramatically reduces the total package size
<omeg> If you want me to, that is.
<klepas> yea, sure
<klepas> one moment
<klepas> i'll upload it
<omeg> Cool :)
<klepas> i wanted this to be entirely SVG also so that people won't have to worry about having this or that of a good size for their monitors
<omeg> I'm encoding video at the moment. Illustrator sure is taking a long time to start...
<omeg> Yeah, good call. I wonder when X's interface will be fully in Vector.
<omeg> Vista and Mac OS X 10.5 are going to be entirely in vector, right? Can't have X stay behind :P
<klepas> even highlighting from the dulled icons to the full colour ones as mouseover is vector :)
<klepas> Vista is i think
<klepas> though whether it will be as complete as their predecessor icon sets... is another question
<andreasn> klepas: how much stuff will this package include
<omeg> I still sometimes see Win95 icons in XP.
<klepas> no point releasing a Windows Vista icon set that is scalable when there are so many other gif ones
<klepas> omeg: yea, precisely
<andreasn> will it also ship tangofied icons to apps like kopete and konqueror?
<klepas> andreasn: a full list will include:
<klepas> ...
<klepas> yes
<klepas> i hope
<klepas> it will take a while
<omeg> What do you think about the icons that showed up on the mailing list?
<klepas> which is why it will be a package in universe at the minimum
<klepas> pretty good
<omeg> The ones that Mark presented? I think that it's too bad that apparently _everything_ needs to have a color brown in it, or else it's "not Ubuntu enough".
<klepas> andreasn: full list (hoep I'm not missing anything, and this is for Ubuntu, so GNOME for now): GDM, Metacity, GTK (if one is made and acceptable), splash screen, the icon set, wallpapers and app icons
<klepas> omeg: ah well
<andreasn> klepas: and ff and tb
<klepas> ah, yes
<klepas> and Gaim emotes
<omeg> I liked the Gnome v2 icons. I guess that I'll be able to revert the Ubuntu 6.04 icons to Gnome v2 pretty easily, though.
<klepas> and for the Kubuntu one, will have kopete emotes
<klepas> actually
<klepas> i had a look at the gaim emotes todayu
<klepas> there were some errors in the package
<klepas> though i cannot remember who did them
<andreasn> I think the icons mark presented is nice, needs to follow the tango guidelines a bit better though to blend in with stuff upstream
<klepas> yep
<omeg> There's one thing that I don't like about the Tango set.
<klepas> and would do better if it were given to the community as accessable SVGs
<omeg> And it's the folder icon. Which is too bad, since it's the single most important icon.
<andreasn> omeg: the color?
<klepas> omeg: change it
<omeg> I've been working on making a replacement but I doubt they'll ever accept it.
<klepas> or propose another
<klepas> :)
<omeg> Yeah, I'm working on it :)
<klepas> hehe
<andreasn> omeg: can I see?
<klepas> i don't like the home icon
<omeg> I've been making it at work, so I'm not sure if I have it here. But I want to change what I have around anyway. Let me see if I have it.
<klepas> omeg: http://wombat.nuxified.com/tmpfiles/tango-renewed-gdm.tar.gz
<omeg> Ah yeah, I have it. Making a PNG...
<klepas> chance someone would be able to provide some temporary websapce?
<klepas> to just upload all the art done this weekend?
<klepas> just temp
<andreasn> klepas: sure
<klepas> less than 8 MB
<klepas> i would presume
<klepas> but bandwidth... not sure
<klepas> depends on how popular it gets
<klepas> andreasn: that would be kick ass
<omeg> http://www.whahay.net/pubaccess/__folder_wip.png
<omeg> Right now, the problem is that it's made for a high size. It kind of falls very flat when seen in that size, especially due to the very narrow lines.
<klepas> doesn't follow Tango guidelines much though
<omeg> It needs much more clear and big lines to adhere to Tango specifications.
<klepas> so somewhat inconsistent
<omeg> Yeah. To be honest, I didn't make this for Tango. I made it for a CMS that a programmer is creating at work. But I've been meaning to use this as base for a Tango icon.
<klepas> ah  cool
<klepas> omeg: did you get the tarball?
<andreasn> omeg: the biggest reason we don't want to change the folder in the base-set right now is that there are too many places we need to change it in
<klepas> i didn't check whether it uploaded rihgt
<klepas> andreasn: and a lot of other people use it already
<klepas> such as subTango
<omeg> I got it, klepas.
<klepas> :)
<andreasn> omeg: like folder-new, home-folder, folder-remote etc. in all three sizes
<omeg> That would be less than a day's work if you have a new folder base.
<klepas> somewhat of a problem though for the modules on the net that have begun to use Tango
<klepas> http://gnomedev.com/
<klepas> like Daniel's and my phpbb theme
<omeg> I don't think that's a valid reason to not substitute one icon for a better one.
<omeg> Afterall, nobody's ever said that Tango is done yet.
<klepas> true
<klepas> suppose we're just reluctant to change
<omeg> I don't think Illustrator can open this, klepas. :(
<klepas> the SVGs?
<omeg> It can open them, but it doesn't support some SVG things.
<andreasn> omeg: well, if you want to fix it in all icons in all sizes, feel free to send it to the tango-artists list
<omeg> Such as transparency in gradients.
<omeg> I think I'll do that when I have some more spare time. It seems interesting enough to try.
<andreasn> omeg: what do you feel is better in this icon than the one currently in tango?
<omeg> I need to stop spending so much time on pixel art: http://www.whahay.net/pubaccess/__atree.gif
<klepas> omeg: at work on a windows box, eh? :)
<klepas> lol
<omeg> andreasn: I don't think my icon is better than the one in Tango yet. Tango's icon is actually pretty good, but the background's dark grey doesn't appeal to me, nor does the frontside part of the folder. It's down too low in both the closed and open states, I'd say.
<omeg> Actually, I'm at home right now. I dual boot Windows and Ubuntu (but do a lot of work on Mac OS 9.2.2), and at work I use Mac OS X 10.4. I don't use Ubuntu for art stuff since I've always used Adobe products, and I don't like the open source alternatives enough to switch to them.
<omeg> I'm not an experienced icon maker, though. I might not ever be pleased with my folder icon alternative, so I wouldn't expect too much of me just yet. :P
<andreasn> omeg: well, it's worth a try
<omeg> By the way, do you guys know of a good place where I can download open source Mac OS 9.2.2 software? Seems that the OS9 scene is completely and wholly dead :)
<omeg> The latest browser to run on it is an outdated Mozilla.
<omeg> Well, except iCab, which is actively making OS9 ports, but nobody cares about iCab.
<andreasn> omeg: haven't heard of any free software for os9, most stuff seems to be shareware
<omeg> Yeah, that's correct. I wonder why.
<andreasn> old platform?
<andreasn> omeg: anyway, about the folders...right now we focus on getting apps tangofied and the base-set to be complete
<omeg> I guess that when OS9 was still being used actively, open source development hadn't taken off that largely yet. I don't really know when it did, to be honest.
<andreasn> and that is why the thread on the tango-artists-list about colors on folders never got anywhere, hope it don't give the impression that we don't listen to peoples feedback
<omeg> Ah, you're a Tango dev? I should say that Tango's stuff is pretty amazing. :) I only have small problems with some of the icons, but nothing serious. It seriously is great work.
<omeg> I guess that Ubuntu will also use Tango in the future. I hope that it will, anyway.
<andreasn> yeah, I've been involved with the project since about the launch of it
<andreasn> yeah, or a theme following the tango-guidelines
<andreasn> as I don't want to see a mishmash of styles on my desktop
<andreasn> and it creates a feeling of unprofessionalism
<omeg> Yeah, that's one of the worst things that can happen.
<omeg> What do you think about the Vista icons?
<klepas> i can't wait until a prime distro uses tango as default
<klepas> omeg: their visual metaphors aren't well thought over
<omeg> I personally am still hoping that Vista's icon set is just some beta thing.
<andreasn> novell linux desktop 10 will probably
<omeg> Because I find them appaling.
<omeg> *appalling
<andreasn> and some people in the fedora project wants to use tango for fedora core 6
<omeg> Especially the new Internet Explorer icon. It's just totally wrongfully designed.
<klepas> would be nice to see distros stop wasting effort to produce a branding icon set
<omeg> In fact, their entire glass interface is nonsense.
<omeg> But I guess that's just Windows.
<omeg> It's not like they haven't been messing up their interface more and more ever since Windows 95's release.
<andreasn> the thing about the vista interface is that there are probably going to be a buch of winxp-icons in there left
<andreasn> and probably some win9x-icons aswell
<andreasn> and it will take a while before isv's are starting to migrate to the vista-style
<andreasn> klepas: do you have all my tangofied app icons?
<andreasn> haven't sent too many of them upstream yet :(
<andreasn> foresight linux ships with tango by default aswell, btw
<klepas> andreasn: none of them
<andreasn> I think I have a tar.gz around here somewhere
<klepas> just making branding sets the way they are traditionally done is senseless
<klepas> that would be awesome
<klepas> :)
<andreasn> klepas: http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/ubuntu-tango-set/
<andreasn> just tell me if something is missing
<andreasn> I have already sent the inkscape icon to their mailing-list, but I'm not sure if it's in or not
<andreasn> but pitivi use the new tango-icon in cvs
<klepas> i'll have a look at in a sec
<klepas> they're awesome
<omeg> Those icons are hot.
<klepas> i'll consider adding to that when time permits
<klepas> so that we keep some sort of version number for it
<klepas> can we call it version 0.1
* klepas edits the tarball as tango-apps-0.1.tar.gz
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/andreasportfolio/icons.html
<andreasn> check if any of them are missing that is in this page
<klepas> the kontact icon
<klepas> and the xchat-gnome icon
<andreasn> no, I mean the other way around
<andreasn> I can't use the xchat-gnome icon in my portfolio, lapo did that one
<klepas> ah, okies
<klepas> :P
<klepas> the puzzle icon
<klepas> that red dot one
<klepas> and the Aaa one
<klepas> oh, and the mailbox one
<andreasn> ok, the puzzle icon is in ff, the mailbox in tb, the A in tango-art-libre
<andreasn> and the filter is supposed to go into tango-art-libre aswell
<klepas> so it's all good?
<andreasn> probably
<klepas> anyone know where i would find the gnome-terminal colour settings
<klepas> as in the file for it
<andi> well, i would search it in ~/.gnome2 but so far i was not successful finding it ;)
<klepas> yea, looked there also
<klepas> :(
<andi> ~/.gconf/apps/gnome-terminal/profiles
<andi> maybe you dont need to directly edit files there but just write some gconf-directives
<klepas> thanks mate
<klepas> yay
<klepas> :)
<klepas> andreasn: ping
<andreasn> pong
<klepas> wondering
<klepas> actually
<klepas> private
<andi> you're welcome, i'm happy i could be of help :)
<adl> ha, finally remembered the nick i registered with ;)
<klepas> in case anyone asks
<klepas> i'll mail about the happenings and results of the artwork weekend tomorrow
<klepas> late here and college tomorrow
<adl> ok, have a good sleep then pascal
<klepas> cheerio
<lapo> hi
<_who_> hello everyone
<_who_> the 'Artwork Weekend' wiki page seems to be blank - does that mean that as yet, little has been decided?
<adl> well, pascale asked to tell everybody that he will mail the outcome tomorrow
<adl> since its late already and he got college tomorrow
<adl> *pascal even
<_who_> yea, I need to get used to talking accross time zones - it's middayish Sunday here in England...
<_who_> So essentially, the meeting is over now then?
<adl> and one hour later here in austria (i guess) ;)
<adl> well, i dont know
<adl> apparently i dropped in here the first time today ;)
<_who_> anyone around who was here when the three theme packages for polishing were discussed?
<_who_> this is my first outing in any Ubuntu Art meeting, 
<adl> http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/151
<adl> this is a link pascal gave me
<_who_> yea, I knew Pascall was very pro-tango :P
<_who_> I think we really ought to do one totally tango theme
<_who_> I'm just more interested in doing one using NuovEXT and Water Vapour
<adl> well, i might not be the right person to talk with for something like that ;) i'm not a very creative guy you know ;)
<adl> but your plans seem nice
<_who_> lol, do you know how we submit artwork for consideration for Dapper?
<adl> sorry, i dont - pascal will be here tomorrow from about 6 in the morning (cet, so 5 in the morning in the uk)
<adl> he'll most likely know
<adl> i didnt catch any discussions today either - was here too late it seems
<heno> When you've put together the artwork you need to get it packaged for Universe
<heno> I suggest you contact the MOTU team https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU or #ubuntu-motu
<heno> link up with someone there who can package art team stuff regularly and upload to universe
<heno> agree on a regular place where you can upload a tarball and the packager can grab it
<lapo> heno: have you considered the dappericons tangoification?
<heno> lapo: well, I think it's a good idea, personally
<heno> but it needs to be taken forward
<heno> I suggest you support the ongoing effort of klepas to put a complete tango package together
<heno> and then push it into universe
<heno> I think following the guidelines WRT perspective is a good idea
<heno> I'm not sure using the tango colours will work at this point though
<heno> your comparison image makes a very good case, lapo
<heno> you should post it on the wiki and the mailing list
<heno> which mark now reads
<heno> and he is the one who is now giving direction to the icon designer
<heno> perhaps you can offer to work with and help that designer directly
<heno> to better follow the tango guidelines
<lapo> ok, I'll surellly do it
<heno> great, push the message out there :)
<heno> going through indirect channels (like myself) will only weaken the message
<heno> and slow down communications
<lapo> I was looking for mark, but he is not online
<lapo> as you can see my english sucks and I fear to be misunderstood, but I'll do my best on the ml
<heno> he is easier to catch on email
<heno> Dont worry about your english; your pictures speak loudly and clearly ;)
<lapo> k, thanks for you help
<lapo> your
<heno> Did anyone get a chance to look at the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperExampleContent stuff?
<heno> Can anyone here make a decent drawing in OOo draw? ;)
<lapo> ooo draw is painfull, I did all the illustration for my gf graduation thesis, dunno how much interesting can be a schematic thooth btw :-)
<heno> lapo: that might be ok. ATM we have 0
<heno> I could draw something myself, but that would be really bad :-/
<lapo> heno: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/heno/
<lapo> btw new ooo misrenders them in a bad way, I did this stuff in 0.98 (...and you can't immagine how painfull it was :-))
<heno> lapo: heh, yeah. Have you tried making equations ion OOo? That's very painful indeed
<heno> Thanks, I'll have a look
<heno> lapo: Hey, these are funny :)  I'm sure I can use one of these. Cool!
<heno> Can you sand me a bit of background about what they were used for?
<heno> what school, etc
<heno> and what license you would like to use
<lapo> yes I tried the equation editor, is not that bad btw, zero documentation is the problem
<lapo> she a dentist, this was for her graduation thesis, the title was...uhm...
<heno> no, trust me it's bad. If you've used LyXor Latex it's really slow
<heno> and license? CC-BY-SA would be good
<lapo> osteogenesys distraction or something
<heno> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/
<lapo> you can use watherver license you want
<heno> well, it's your work so you have to license it :)
<heno> but I would recomend http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ then
<lapo> let's go for cc-by-sa
<lapo> nope, take gpl
<heno> ok, gpl it is
<nomed> hi all
<nomed> i've seen there was a week end meeting ... do you know anything about it ?
<nomed> or the current status of ubuntu-artwork in general ?
<andreasn> I think there is a meeting-log in the wiki
<andreasn> but I thought it was over here and missed it :(
<nomed> andreasn, have u a link ?
<andreasn> let me check
<nomed> the last one seems 02 02
<andreasn> yeah
<andreasn> I probably mixed it up with that
<nomed> is there anyone that would play with xubuntu artwork ?
<nomed> we really need someone at this stage :/
<nomed> it would be fine just a person that can help us on following ubuntu-artwork discussion ... and the choices that have been taken ..
<andreasn> ok
<andreasn> what do you have right now?
<nomed> andreasn, we have a logo
<nomed> but we need to define the color scheme ..
<nomed> i 'm collecting stuff and trying to figure out what's the best
<nomed> andreasn, http://debased.sourceforge.net/xubuntu/tmp/artworks/html/logos.html
<nomed> the first one is the logo used as "favincon" in launchpad ..
<nomed> but i think it too light ..
<nomed> the one i like more is the last one ..
<andreasn> the colors in that one looks very similar to the ones in kubuntu
<nomed> yep
<andreasn> the first that is
<nomed> that's the problem ..
<andreasn> yeah, those colors looks nice and is distinctive from the others
<nomed> andreasn, that's the one i made helped by a gimp guy
<nomed> :)
<andreasn> how do you feel about combining the size of the mouse in the first one with the colors in the third?
<nomed> andreasn, i think it may be an issue having a small mouse ..
<nomed> for menu icon ..
<andreasn> ah, yes
<andreasn> that is true
<nomed> the gtk theme i was thinking to use is graphite ..
<andreasn> url?
<nomed> it looks perfect with tango icon theme
<nomed> and 
<andreasn> are you using tango as icon theme?
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/ProposedAgenda
<andreasn> I have a matching thunderbird theme for you in the works
<nomed> andreasn, if it will be possible yes
<nomed> that's what i would use
<andreasn> I'm one of the tango-developers btw
<nomed> as it looks nice with the xubuntu logo  i would use
<nomed> andreasn, cool
<nomed> andreasn, i would really get tango as default icon theme for xubuntu
<andreasn> you could make use of the tango-palette as much as possible in splashes etc
<nomed> andreasn, exactly
<nomed> that what i would :)
<nomed> i need a supporter on the xubuntu-devel list :)
<nomed> my idea would be to use
<nomed> the logo 3
<nomed> tango as icon theme
<nomed> graphite as gtkrc theme
<nomed> then play with wallpaper usplash and so on ..
<andreasn> do you have a url to the graphite theme, I have forgot what it looks like
<nomed> but untill we'll not decide the color scheme we can't do nothing
<andreasn> oh, it+s in the wiki
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanieleFavara/ProposedAgenda
<andreasn> use the tango color scheme
<nomed> yep
<andreasn> or a selection on colors from the scheme
<andreasn> that will guarantee you that it looks good together with the icons
<nomed> yep
<andreasn> so, ubuntu is red and brown
<andreasn> kubuntu is blue
<andreasn> edubuntu is ...?
<nomed> as ubuntu
<andreasn> http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
<nomed> and for xubuntu i would use a gray-blue ..
<nomed> yep
<andreasn> what about the aliminium colors in there?
<nomed> i'm even trying to fix the whole xfce to use the icon naming spec
<andreasn> elegant, light-weight
<andreasn> nomed: wow! great!
<nomed> but some icons are missing ..
<nomed> :P
<nomed> i mean ... i can fix what's needed in the code ..
<nomed> but i'm not an artists ..
<nomed> i can just play with color palette and that's all
<andreasn> some icons in tango=
<nomed> andreasn, yes
<andreasn> nomed: anything special?
<nomed> now i show you
<nomed> http://www.dsslive.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap-0.3-1:XfceTheme
<andreasn> ah
<andreasn> looks fixable
<nomed> andreasn, perfect
<andreasn> I'll bookmark it and fix them
<nomed> i would discuss and make a final decision about this artwork stuff
<nomed> during next xubuntu meeting
<nomed> that should be in two days
<nomed> so people can start playing with it
<nomed> it would be nice if you could be there ...
<andreasn> cool
<andreasn> let them know that I can fix all those icons for you
<nomed> andreasn, perfect
<andreasn> I need a workspace-icon for gnome-applets anyway
<andreasn> and a generic menu-editor-icon has been requested before
<nomed> andreasn, k
<nomed> what about if we start a wiki page like this ..
<andreasn> ah, graphine is that theme by lokheed
<nomed> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/XfceGoodies
<nomed> so we can know what's happening ...
<nomed> and the progress ..
<nomed> as i'll need to send patches to xfce-devel ..
<nomed> probably ..
<andreasn> yeah
<nomed> and even the xml file in icon-naming-utils should be patched i feel
<nomed> xfce-devel are happy with tango icons ..
<andreasn> cool
<nomed> so a person like you may help this switch very much
<andreasn> are those icons all that are used in xfce?
<andreasn> here are some icons of mine btw
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/andreasportfolio/icons.html
<nomed> andreasn, at the moment the xfce default icon theme is rodent ..
<nomed> http://svn.xfce.org/listing.php?repname=xfce4&path=%2Fxfce4-icon-theme%2Ftrunk%2F&rev=0&sc=0#/xfce4-icon-theme/trunk/
<nomed> andreasn, those icons look familiar :)
<nomed> andreasn, i'm going to write a email to xubuntu-devel .. saying that it's possible a person will try to make tango icons usable for xubuntu ..
<nomed> is it ok ?
<nomed> as that person is you ...
<nomed> cu tomorrow .. maybe
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-11
<klepas> hello
<artnay> hey klepas
<artnay> I saw that your tango package is progressing
<klepas> how was that party?
<klepas> yea man
<artnay> uh, it was great. not to mention the after party which basically took me the whole sunday :(
<klepas> cool
<klepas> from the photos of the event on the site it looked like a blast
<artnay> never had so fun with water ;)
<klepas> :)
<klepas> i sent off a mail to lokheed
<artnay> so what happened in london?
<klepas> they had a UI sprint
<klepas> over the weeken
<klepas> s/weeken/weekend
<klepas> lokheed will be doing the gaim tango set
<klepas> and a tango gaim dialogue image/splash thingy :)
<artnay> was there any canonicals here?
<artnay> oh well, I might just as well dist-upgrade
<artnay> hmh, it wants to remove oo.o and since there's no updated ubuntu-artwork, I'll let it be as it is
<artnay> really, what's happening with the screensavers?
<artnay> gnome-screensaver is filled up with useless screensavers as there's no GUI to tweak them
<artnay> should people really edit their screensavers using $editor?
<klepas> no idea
<klepas> i'm on breezy
<artnay> wasn't there ubuntu screensaver somewhere? it's not listed on gnome-screensaver nor xscreensaver
<klepas> i'm considering distupgrading
<klepas> gaim 2 binaries are in dapper
<klepas> saves me from compiling this crap
<artnay> oh well, mark will most probably clean up the most useless screensavers (at least I hope so)
<artnay> there was a bug on it at bugzilla
<klepas> is it safe to update to dapper?
<klepas> not too broken?
<artnay> I guess it depends on what you're using :o
<artnay> I've used it for the last four months, it should be quite safe now as it's in freeze already
<lapo> hi
<artnay> hey lapo
<artnay> nice modifications, I especially liked the computer icon without ubuntu background
<artnay> that's something what we should have started months ago as a team
<andreasn> hello
<lapo> artnay, I'd like the sabdfl to make his payed artist to follow a similar style (so tango guidelines)
<lapo> ciao andreasn 
<andreasn> lapo: how is the work on the icons going?
<artnay> lapo: or at least tell the guys name and get in contact with him
<artnay> have a discussion here or something
<lapo> or pay some of the tango artist to do it (*hint* andreasn)
<lapo> andreasn, I did the printer
<andreasn> or *hint* lapo for that matter
<artnay> lapo: have any tango members offered their help?
<artnay> I know some guys that have some really decent icon sets and they offered their help to canonical
<artnay> but canonical refused
<artnay> probably many others have asked the same question as well, but as the whole ubuntu-artwork isn't that well informed, who knows what is happening *don't kick me*
<artnay> although there's been improvements within a month or so
<lapo> artnay, I don't know, I don't think any of us contacted canonical directly tho
<artnay> lapo: oh, ok
<lapo> artnay, a pair of nice guys helped me with those icons btw
<artnay> maybe they wanted some gnome-oriented artists to do the work
<lapo> gnome oriented?
<artnay> and as canonical has some gnome devs, it might have been an inside discussion
<artnay> people who have contributed to gnome in the past
<lapo> artnay, uhm...icon should not be gnome specific
<lapo> icons
<lapo> andreasn, I have a job and have no time for this stuff, you should contact canonical and offer you services to them, really
<artnay> lapo: what I meant to say, they might want to hire people who have given some love to gnome artwork and thus are their friends or so
<artnay> and I do agree, let's not have gnome specific icons
<andreasn> artnay: I don't think it's about gnome or not, but rather that they are looking for a schooled designer
<lapo> artnay, dunno, those icons style don't recall me any gnome artist I know of
<artnay> it's a shame that in this open development process we don't even know who's working those
<lapo> they looks a bit like early tig work, but he work for nokia now
<artnay> my first though was that it's tigert
<lapo> artnay, this is way I'd like to talk with the sabdfl
<lapo> tig is better than that:-)
<artnay> :)
<lapo> and I would have followed tango guidelines
<artnay> maybe it was just a teaser and some things were left there for a purpose
<andreasn> it seems they made something that blends in good with g-i-t, problem is that g-i-t is movind towards tango
<artnay> to get people interest and tell "it shouldn't be that way", "it's breaking hig", "let's do this and that"
<lapo> andreasn, yep, tat's the other reason why I'd like to talk with the sabdfl
<artnay> and what's happening with ubuntu-artwork anyways?
<artnay> have you seen the latest gnome splash?
<andreasn> I think we should come up with a good alternative set, but with the same boldness that this set offers
<lapo> artnay, you mean the offical gnome one?
<artnay> will they change it? what do they want out of it?
<andreasn> and still following the tango-guidelines
<artnay> lapo: no, dapper one
<artnay> well they will change it but to what
<andreasn> artnay: url?
<artnay> umh
<artnay> don't have a one
<artnay> it basically the same as it has been in the earlier versions
<artnay> a bit modified
<lapo> artnay, I think the guy who is doing th offical gnome splash could thelp them
<artnay> and then there reads with a big font "THIS IS NOT THE FINAL ARTWORK FOR DAPPER"
<lapo> well, he woulc be happy to help them
<artnay> so it seems the development is being done somewhere
<lapo> *hint* *hint* :-)
<artnay> but who is working on that?
<andreasn> well, anyway, it seems that some set featuring tango will go into dapper, but only in extras
<andreasn> what, the guy working on the gnome-splash for 2.14? me?
<lapo> eheh
<artnay> actually the same thing happened with usplash on the very first dapper month
<artnay> it read "UBUNTU DAPPER" with big, ugly white font
<artnay> then they changed it
<artnay> just for laughs, eh?
<andreasn> tango may be the default in xubuntu btw, just need to help those guys with some extra icons
<artnay> yeah, I read the log
<lapo> artnay, the right way(TM) is:
<artnay> default tango or a bit modified tango?
<andreasn> in xubuntu?
<andreasn> default I think
<artnay> ok, I was just thinking of the colours
<lapo> * follow the tango guidelines to do a branded theme following the tango guidelines (something like what I did) and iherits tango (or git2) icons
<lapo> * contribut to tango (or git2) the missing icons
<lapo> the new git2 will have a lot less icons than current git, integrated with -extra themes for mimetypes
<andreasn> artnay: if xubuntu get a silver-identity (just as ubuntu is brown and orange and kubuntu is blue), then xubuntu could get grey folders
<lapo> lets say gnome-theme-artists-extras may contain all the different mimetypes icons for images and the like
<artnay> andreasn: that's what I was thinking, modify the colour scheme to fit the look of *buntu
<artnay> but that brings some problems
<andreasn> what problems?
<artnay> if only you could decide DE-centric colours with CSS to icon theme
<artnay> what if user is using GNOME and XFCE?
<artnay> and by default it should fit both of them
<lapo> artnay, I don't believe the css idea can work nicely
<artnay> but that's a minor issue, it's better to have a nice set that fits the default CD media
<andreasn> well, there could be xubuntu-jazzdance (a package with just the grey folders that inhereits tango)
<lapo> artnay, look at the color modification of the folders I did, I didn't changed only the body color, I had to make the wave and the inner stroke more evident
<artnay> if one downloads *-desktop, he can most probably change the icons as well
<lapo> artnay, I nicer way is to use a different theme with the alternative folders that inherits the base theme, as andreasn is saying
<artnay> could you provide a link once again? my backlog is full and I just cleared private data
<lapo> http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/dappericons/
<artnay> *bookmarked*
<artnay> so is the folder icon the main concern with tango and different *buntus?
<andreasn> lapo: wow, nice printer
<lapo> tnx
<andreasn> artnay: yeah, if you want to fit a certain color scheme
<lapo> artanay, one theme per *buntu with only the folder
<artnay> so are you guys thinking of adding an extension to some MIME icons?
<lapo> artnay, lets say, ubuntu base icon theme + ubuntu theme, kubuntu theme, xubuntu theme
<lapo> uhm?
<lapo> can you rephrase it?
<artnay> like PNG/JPG/GIF or OGG/MP3/WAV/ACC in the icon
<artnay> all should the colour do it?
<lapo> the idea is to have something like an extension system
<lapo> uhm?
<artnay> to differ formats from each other
<lapo> artnay, dunno exactly at the moment
<artnay> that's against hig but it would be much better that way
<lapo> against hig?
<artnay> I was pleasantaly surprised that the guy who is developing ubuntu icon set chose that way
<artnay> no unnecessary text in icons, whatever that means
<lapo> artnay, I think the file manager should place the text labels if the user want, but we are not at that point atm
<artnay> that's mostly audio icon issue as many people use picture preview
<lapo> artnay, dunno about audio, the only ideas I have atm are for images, someone will surelly came up sith something good for audio btw
<lapo> tango have a nice community with a good number of nice artists involved
<artnay> I won't be telling my mom that don't put green audio files into your mp3 player as it can't play them, just use the yellow and blue ones
<andreasn> so, klepas suggested that we should do a total tango-branded set (gdm, splash etc. with the tango-logo and stuff)...what do you think about that
<lapo> as I said klepas I don't think it's the right course of action
<andreasn> I'm not sure about the tango-branding though
<andreasn> lapo: I agree
<lapo> tango branding is bad
<lapo> tango is not about branding
<andreasn> yes, the only people that should be aware of tango is developers, not like my mother-in-law
<artnay> if everything is "tango", my mom will be using tango as her next os then x)
<andreasn> lapo: I'm more for having stuff based on your dapper-icons and gdm-themes etc. that follow the guidelines but still feels bold
<andreasn> and brave
<lapo> I'm more for it as well :-)
<andreasn> as that is ubuntus real strengh brand-wize, while osx is elegant and cold and windows is...whatever windows is
<lapo> the right word, is a mess :)
<andreasn> windows wants to be what osx is asteticly aswell
<artnay> familiar to most of the people, I'd say :p
<artnay> vista doesn't even have icons yet
<artnay> neither does dapper
<andreasn> vista don't have icons?
<artnay> its icon set is not complete yet
<artnay> the icons released are just teasers
<artnay> the final artwork will be released later on
<artnay> icon artwork, as they will use aero glass and that black elegant start menu
<andreasn> well, anyway, my point is that ubuntu is very different from both osx and windows asteticly, being more human, we should work on that
<artnay> true
<andreasn> human, but also, with this new orange tint and style, very brave
<andreasn> as some people hate orange and some love it
<artnay> it was rather surprising decision
<andreasn> but a good one
<artnay> somehow it reminds me of os x folder blue
<andreasn> the tango-ones?
<andreasn> or lapos dapper-icons?
<andreasn> or the ones proposed for dapper?
<artnay> just the colour, for some reason it reminds of os x
<artnay> being so bright I guess
<andreasn> what folder?
<artnay> yeah, the orange colour used in folders
<artnay> I liked the brown in human yasis but I guess it blends too well with the background they're thinking of
<artnay> so orange should have your focus on a brown desktop, I guess
<andreasn> where can I find human yasis?
<andreasn> yeah, brown and orange looks good together
<artnay> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=33674
<andreasn> so, is anyone with me on a bold and brave set following the tango-palette
<lapo> do I have to answer? :-)
<lapo> I'll surelly help you
<artnay> andreasn: using palette where?
<andreasn> in splashes, gdm etc
<lapo> sabdfl is online
<lapo> should I try to invite him here?
<artnay> andreasn: sure thing if it's not overused. colourful is fine, but too much colours will make epileptic
<artnay> lapo: I think many other things keep him busy
<artnay> and he watches ML
<artnay> unless we really have an agenda here, I wouldn't invite him
<artnay> what the hell, go ahead if you want to have a chat with him :)
<artnay> maybe he could enlighten us
<lapo> let's see
<artnay> andreasn: you said the decision using orange is good
<artnay> I wonder how far will they go with it
<lapo> artnay, uhm?
<artnay> will it only be used in icons and which icons etc.
<lapo> artnay, with the style they are using I think they should do a lot of icons so they can use orange in every place they want
<andreasn> artnay: well, it would be sane to use it together with brown and gray
<andreasn> and perhaps some red
<artnay> but the rumour has it that brown will be changed for dapper+1
<artnay> which would be a shame
<andreasn> well, as long as they keep using warm colors and don't go away from the ubuntu-identity so to say
<artnay> true, brown is easy to eyes (at least compared to horrible luna)
<andreasn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDapperLook
<andreasn> #dapper-look
<artnay> I wonder why /Artwork isn't being used. that was the idea of it originally, have one place for all artwork stuff
<artnay> easier to track changes and get the overall picture
<andreasn> lapo: I need to go to class now, perhaps you can chat to some people making the decitions
<lapo> see you later andreasn 
<andreasn> in #dapper-look
<andreasn> I'll tune in at 18:00 or something
<artnay> bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:artnay] : watch out for #dapper-look
<sabdfl> hi guys!
<lapo> hi mark, tnx for your attention
<lapo> and sorry for the intrusion
<lapo> btw, I've seen your new dappericons
<sabdfl> np
<sabdfl> i've just seen yours :-)
<lapo> I think you should make your artists follows the tango guidelines
<lapo> as you can see from the icons I did, you can do it with little modifications
<sabdfl> i'm not mad about the tango guidelines, they seem to need to settle out quite a bit still
<lapo> and the whole desktop experience will surelly be better
<lapo> uhm..the guidelines are quite clear and simple
<lapo> consider that new git will be tango style
<lapo> youre icons fits well with the current git, but not so well with the next git
<lapo> using tango will give you various benefits
<lapo> firt of all less icons to draw :-)
<lapo> first even
<lapo> doing a complete icon theme is an enormous effort
<lapo> have you ever used redhat/fedora?
<lapo> bluecurve is the most complete icon theme around (not consider gnome-icon-theme), but it doesn't fits well wit the rest of the icons, so the desktop experience feels uncomplete
<lapo> when I use redhat the first thing I do is to change the icon theme to git
<lapo> using a "tango compliant" theme will let you integrate well with tango and git2 theme at least (as well oxygen probably since thier guidelines are similar to tango's)
<lapo> so you'll need to draw only the icons revelant for branding (more or less the ones I did) and inherits the rest
<lapo> so to summurize
<lapo> * less icons to draw
<lapo> * better desktop experience
<lapo> tango actually have a nice community with lot of good people contributing to it
<lapo> so you don't have to maintain a full set of icons
<lapo> this is how the next git will looks like: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=git2
<lapo> I think I wasted enough of your time now :-)
<sabdfl> not wasted
<sabdfl> that's useful info
<lapo> I have no time to do all the icons for ubuntu, but I can surelly help, you could check on tango-artists ml or on #tango if there are artists who can do the job
<adl> think so too, its useful info if you ask me, no time wasted
<jimmac> howdy folks
<lapo> yo jimmac
<jimmac> so what's the latest status on the dapper icon theme?
<sabdfl> not yet
<sabdfl> hey jimmac
<sabdfl> we're hoping to get a first cut of that packaged today
<jimmac> one thing you probably talked with lapo is about making the style follow tango style guidelines...
* jimmac reads the irc backlog
<klepas> sabdfl: ping
<jsgotangco> klepas, try #dapper-look
<klepas> jsgotangco: cheers
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-03-12
<nomed> hi all
<andreasn> hi
<nomed> hi andreasn 
<Tm_T> ugh
<sabdfl> hey guys
<andreasn> hello there sabdfl, how is the ui-sprint going?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-05
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<klepas> moin
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<joejaxx> Good Afternoon All
<knovak> Just a question, who does the startup/shutdown sounds for Ubuntu? Reason I ask is I'm an aspiring composer and I'm wondering if I could contribute that way
<elkbuntu> knovak, cbx33
<knovak> cbx33 = Pete Savage correct
<elkbuntu> knovak, yes
<elkbuntu> knovak, the feisty sounds are still in early development from what he showed me the other day
<elkbuntu> so there might be room for contrib :)
<knovak> ok -- does he come on this IRC channel much?
<elkbuntu> knovak, not that i am aware of. not sure which are his usual haunts. however you can easily check /whois and /ns info cbx33 to find when he is on, and just /msg him when you spot him
<knovak> alrighty, thanks a bunch
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-06
<joejaxx> hmm
<nysosym> hi there :)
<nysosym> hi kwwii :)
<kwwii> nysosym: howdy
<nysosym> how are u? :)
<kwwii> nysosym: good, and you?
<nysosym> also :)
<nysosym> on what do u working now kwwii? :)
<nysosym> kwwii: do u have a little bit admission to the KDE team?
<kwwii> nysosym: I am still working on making gdm and the splash match kinda
<kwwii> nysosym: did some kubuntu stuff a couple of days ago too
<kwwii> nysosym: yes, I am close to quite a few of the kde guys
<nysosym> kwwii: cool, is it possible that the KDE guys make my wish come true? http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=139456
<Ubugtu> KDE bug 139456 in general "A option to lock toolbars!" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed] 
<nysosym> I think that's a big design lack :D
<kwwii> nysosym: you can hide those handles
<kwwii> which does what you want
<nysosym> for kde 4 :)
<nysosym> kwwii: truly? I have searched long long long ^^
<nysosym> but with no result
<nysosym> in that way i will install kde and search again :D
<kwwii> erm, I think that is only for the panel
<nysosym> hmm also not possible in kopete etc.?
<nysosym> in that way, i hope this will be fixed in kde 4 :)
<nysosym> kwwii: are any screenshots available of your kubuntu  work? :)
<kwwii> nysosym: nope, it is the uspalsh
<kwwii> no screens of that yet
<nysosym> ahhh ok :)
<nysosym> kwwii: i'm working on a gtk+ theme, but it`s far far away from completeness :D
<nysosym> http://i18.tinypic.com/2qia687.png
<kwwii> nysosym: cool :-)
<nysosym> at moment a have a big problem with the progressbar, the actual image is only a placeholder ^^
<kwwii> doing a style is a lot of work
<nysosym> kwwii: yes and a way with many very big stones... . I think creating such a theme should be a lot easier
<nysosym> for example i have a graphic for the down arrow, on the upper left button it looks well and on the right, the same graphic is a lot smaller. These is very stupid ^^
<kwwii> ;-)
<nysosym> kwwii: is it planed that you come to germany in the next time (months, years)? ^^
<kwwii> nysosym: I live in bamberg :-)
<nysosym> kwwii: wow, since a long time? ^^
<nysosym> i thought u live in the usa :D
<kwwii> 11+ years
<nysosym> i have in my mind, that u said, that u live in the usa...
<nysosym> maybe my mistake :)
<kwwii> nope, I am from the usa though
<nysosym> kwwii: any what was the reason for germany? :)
<nysosym> *and
<kwwii> at the time I was looking to change jobs (I studied and worked as a civil engineer) so I took a year off to move to a foreign country
<kwwii> at the same time I met a german girl
<kwwii> we are now married and have one son
<nysosym> congratulation :)
<nysosym> never rued?
<kwwii> rued?
<nysosym> nie bereut nicht wieder in die USA zu geben (mit Frau) ?
<nysosym> *gehen
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> schon ab und zu mal
<nysosym> gut aber Bayern ist schon schn ;)
<nysosym> at the rest, sry for german...
<kwwii> ;-)
<nysosym> ok i will go to bed now, have a good night kwwii :)
<nysosym> hope to see u soon :)
<kwwii> see you soon
<kwwii> n8
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-07
<nysosym> hi there :)
<BHSPitMonkey> yo
<nysosym> hi BHSPitMonkey  :)
<BHSPitMonkey> sup
<nysosym> BHSPitMonkey, on what do u working? :)
<BHSPitMonkey> school -.-
<daviey> Any budding artists mind throwing a usplash picture together?
<kwwii> erm, not sure if it is possible to "throw" one together :-)
<kwwii> daviey: exactly what do you need?
<daviey> hmm
<daviey> wait 1
<daviey> can i email/dcc what i have done?
<daviey> I basically need a 'well polished' usplash picture for 'mythbuntu' (MythTV & Ubuntu dedicated distro)
<kwwii> daviey: well, you have to know that it is only 256 colors so there are some restrictions
<kwwii> but I will help in any way possible :-)
<daviey> yeah, i have made one and compiled it - but it looks amateurish.
<kwwii> can you post a pic?
<daviey> http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mythbuntuuu6.jpg
<daviey> sorry
<daviey> http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6382/mythbuntuuu6.jpg
<kwwii> ouch, yeah...that would be hard to do with so few colors :-)
<daviey> that is 256 colours
<kwwii> one thing that would make things easier would be to put the whole thing on a solid bg
<kwwii> it looks like it is on a gradient now, am I right?
<daviey> yes
<daviey> it's shamelessly stolen from a bg on gnome-look
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> I would suggest trying to put it on a solid blue color
<daviey> I could try that.  Is there an easy way to convert a truecolour image to 256 using GIMP?  I had to save it as GIF then resave it as a png
<kwwii> just go into the image menu and click on the indexed entry
<kwwii> it will open a pop-up
<kwwii> image-->mode-->indexed
<kwwii> and note that rastering the pic is probably not the best idea
<daviey> ahh, i see
<daviey> rastering?
<kwwii> erm, dithering, I meant
<daviey> ahh
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> Does anyone tested HumanFeistyList ?
<bersace> screenshots at http://bersace03.free.fr/pub/Images/Captures/Gnome/GDM/Themes/HumanFeistyList/
<bersace> ?
<bersace> troy_s: hi bro :)
<kwwii> howdy bersace
<kwwii> I haven't tested it, but it looks nice
<bersace> kwwii: thanks to you !
<bersace> hh
<bersace> :)
<kwwii> busy fixing my mistake in the kubuntu usplash atm :-(
<bersace> aren't you the original author of this gdm theme ?
<kwwii> bersace: well, I am one of the authors, I guess
<bersace> me too :)
<kwwii> I didn't put my name in any of the files :p
<bersace> at least, we are a team :)
<kwwii> yeah :-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-08
<nysosym> hi there :)
<nysosym> kwwii, do u have made the new xubuntu usplash also?
<kwwii> nysosym: nope, didn't do that one
<nysosym> ok :)
<nysosym> anyway is a nice thing :)
<kwwii> cool, good to hear
<lapo> hi there
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-09
<lapo> hi there
<andreasn> hi lapo
<lapo> yo andreasn
<bersace> Hi all
<nysosym> hi there :)
<nysosym> kwwii_: ?
<kwwii_> hi
<nysosym> can i send u my modified vcard svg? :)
<kwwii_> the dcc doesn't work it appears
<nysosym> hmm
<nysosym> damn, brb
<nysosym> re
<nysosym> kwwii_: http://www.nysosym.de/vcard.svg :)
<kwwii_> looks nice
<nysosym> thx
<nysosym> but i have only added some lines :D
<bersace> Hi all
<nysosym> hi bersace
<kwwii_> howdy bersace
<bersace> anyone has tested the HumanFeistyList GDM theme ?
<bersace> will it be included in feisty ?
<kwwii_> bersace: I like it very much, but there are a few issues with it
<kwwii_> bersace: afaik there has to be some limit to the number of users shown
<bersace> that's not up to the theme
<kwwii_> and it should only be shown in certain circumstances
<kwwii_> bersace: I know, but it influences whether sabdfl will want it or not ;-)
<bersace> This is intended for family
<bersace> not Enterprise
<bersace> we should at least ship it along with default theme
<kwwii_> bersace: that we can definitely do
<bersace> just like we ship a "circle of friend" variant
<bersace> I don't intend to replace current artwork
<bersace> far from it
<bersace> for myself, i prefer the current one
<bersace> but family *need* selector
<kwwii_> I think that having a nifty face browser would be a good feature
<bersace> antd other
<bersace> See Fedora Core 7
<bersace> See #ubuntu-artwork title !
<kwwii_> yeah, I have seen
<kwwii_> i am the one that pointed that out to everyone
<bersace> i gues
<bersace> s
<bersace> as an author of 5 GDM themes with selector, i can say : this one is rocking
<kwwii_> lol
<bersace> because it stretch vertically
<bersace> very smoothly
<kwwii_> we can definitely include it
<bersace> can you post this on the mailing list
<kwwii_> yeah, I'll do that
<bersace> in order dholbach and sabdfl to know what ubuntu-art team think about that
<bersace> please
<bersace> thx
<bersace> I also posted a modified gtkrc for ubuntulook
<bersace> which handle custom colorscheme quite nicely
<bersace> its needs debugging
<bersace> and testing
<kwwii_> wow, you've been busy :-)
<bersace> the idea is if user dislike orange : just change "Selected background" to blue
<bersace> and all is blue
<bersace> I'm not an artist, but a coder, so xml and gtkrc are fine for me ;)
<bersace> would be nice to have some more feedback on the work i did this last week
<bersace> especially from troy_s
<bersace> and sabdfl
<bersace> and fschoep
<bersace> well, every one on this list ;)
<kwwii_> mail sent
<kwwii_> so where does one set that?
<bersace> ho fuck : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntulooks/+bug/88943
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 88943 in ubuntulooks "Ubuntulooks doesn't support colour schemes" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<bersace> someone already works on that
<kwwii_> lol
<nysosym> ^^
<kwwii_> I seriously need to update my machine to feisty
<bersace> but it doesn't works :$
<bersace> kwwii_: ho yes, you should
<kwwii_> maybe I'll do that tonight
<kwwii_> although that means soooo much work
<kwwii_> I wonder how well an update works
<kwwii_> instead of a fresh install
<kwwii_> bersace: if I get a machine running feisty, I will test it
<kwwii_> in the meantime I suggest you paste your fix on that bug page :-)
<eean> kwwii_: I installed Feisty last night, using update-manager, it went smooth
<kwwii_> eean: good to hear :-)
<eean> >1 gig to download
<bersace> ok
<bersace> oh, in fact, the guys make only clearlooks color scheme support, not ubuntulooks colors scheme support
<bersace> :)
<bersace> i feared i waste my time
<bersace> Ok
<bersace> good night all
<nysosym> kwwii_: thx for the new transition in the kde logout :)
<kwwii_> :-)
* kwwii_ runs to the gas station...brb
<nysosym> zigaretts? :D
<kwwii_> re
<kwwii_> yepp
<nysosym> wb :)
<nysosym> i will go to bed now, have a good night kwwii :)
<kwwii> goog night
<kwwii> see you soon, I hope
<nysosym> i think so, tomorrow i have a 12h day to work....
<nysosym> but i'm online tonight ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-10
<daviey> Hi, can somebody tell me how to resize an image in gimp so it squeezes it
<daviey> ie, save a 16:9 picture into a 4:3 resolution (makeing things tall)?
<kwwii> scale the image
<kwwii> only deselect the little link next to the sizes in the pop-up before you change anything
<kwwii> ie. in gimp
<daviey> kwwii, thanks - did that
<daviey> worked a treat
<daviey> ;)
<kwwii> ;-)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> anthony.freenode.net
<mjunx> hey, is there any reason why beryl screws up the kicker system tray?
<mjunx> normally it can stack two rows of icons
<mjunx> but whenever I run beryl, it doesn't
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> anthony.freenode.net
<sarracenia88> hello
<nysosym> hi there :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-03-11
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<daviey> Seveas, ping
<Seveas> daviey, ?
<daviey> Hi, usplash is your thing right?
<Seveas> no
<daviey> eft is tho?
<Seveas> I only wrote a small part of it
<Seveas> some easy bits :)
<daviey> okay, the header is copyrighted to you and i want to mod it for my own theme
<daviey> what should i do?
<Seveas> the entire thing is GPL
<Seveas> should be in the header as well, and if not: assume it is
<daviey> So if i am chaaning it - i should put my name there?
<Seveas> daviey, tbh: I don't care, so what you like :)
<daviey> it is, but also says "Copyright  2006 Dennis Kaarsemaker <dennis@kaarsemaker.net>"
<daviey> Seveas, cool - thanks
<EmxBA> hi elkbuntu
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-03
<troy_s> kwwii: I was looking at the supported Nikons on the dcraw site.  It supports every DSLR up to the D3.  It makes me wonder why your weren't able to decode the NEFs.
<troy_s> kwwii: The ONLY camera I can see on there that isn't yet supported (but probably is as the NEF won't change) is the D60.
<troy_s> kwwii: Anyways, if you can't get it sorted let me know.
<kwwii> good morning all
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I have/had a fuji (almost sold now)
<kwwii> troy_s: and yes, I need to tweak the wallpaper and work on gdm ;-)
 * kwwii answers emails, etc
<kwwii> hehe, checking the site, even the s5 is supported now
<xhaker> kwwii: good morning
<kwwii> moin xhaker
<xhaker> kwwii: can you give me a link to the current plans for hardy theme?
<xhaker> i've talked with seb128 about a bug in the theme, and managed to hunt it down and patch ubuntulooks
<xhaker> the previous theme nowI presume
<xhaker> it has to do with inconsistent radio buttons. at first i thought that it was a bug somewhere else, but it proved to be the theme
<kwwii> xhaker: for now we are planning on using murrine or clear looks as default but I think that we will still ship an ubuntulooks theme
<xhaker> kwwii: well, i wonder what would ubuntulooks be if i merged it with current clearlooks
<xhaker> kwwii: http://leetcorp.net/theme-radio-easy-fix.png
<kwwii> xhaker: I think that the code is really different in the meantime
<kwwii> xhaker: one thing we are interested in looking into is keeping the look of the ubuntulooks scrollbars
<kwwii> but I am not sure how close the code is...if one could just cut that out of ubuntulooks and paste it into clearlooks
<xhaker> kwwii: it would be cool to know when did clearlooks get forked for ubuntulooks
<xhaker> that'd help
<kwwii> xhaker: I am writing an email as we speak on the notes I took from a meeting last week on this stuff
<xhaker> for now I fixed the radio buttons, inconsistent = glow, no bullet
<xhaker> thanks, i'll let you type
<kwwii> not sure what you mean
<xhaker> kwwii: about the radio buttons?
<kwwii> xhaker: yes, do you have a screenshot to explain?
<xhaker> I've pasted the url before
<xhaker> http://release.debian.org/
<xhaker> ups
<kwwii> lol
<xhaker> http://leetcorp.net/theme-radio-easy-fix.png
<xhaker> see how all the radio buttons are glowing but have no bullet indicating which is selected
<xhaker> they're in a state called inconsistent
<xhaker> none is selected
<xhaker> that is with my patched ubuntulooks
<kwwii> so this makes them orange filled, if I see it correctly
<xhaker> the one in the repositories makes them all *appear* selected
<xhaker> kwwii: in the code the orange fill is called glow
<kwwii> gotcha
<kwwii> I guess a change like this needs to be discussed...I'll ask a couple of people and get back to you, ok?
<xhaker> kwwii: i've talked with seb128, it is a known bug
<kwwii> email address?
<xhaker> he just told me he'd prefer the clearlooks style for inconsistent radio
<kwwii> or send me one at kwwii at ubuntu dot com
<xhaker> xhaker at gmail.com
<xhaker> that's why i will probably try to merge clearlooks back to ubuntulooks
<kwwii> that would be pretty cool if you can make it work well
<kwwii> there are quite a few things from ubuntulooks that we would like to keep
<xhaker> kwwii: are they enumerated in the email?
<kwwii> yes..it'll probably need more explanation, but it is a a start
<xhaker> and now i would love to know the fork version
<xhaker> have to try to find it. doesn't seem to exist a correlation with the ubuntulooks version number
<kwwii> hrm?
<xhaker> my question: ubuntulooks is based on which version of clearlooks?
<kwwii> I've no idea :-)
<kwwii> it was from shortly before dapper
<xhaker> right. i was saying the ubuntulooks version is 0.9, and clearlooks didn't have that version number ever
<xhaker> :d
<kwwii> ;-)
<xhaker> haha.. lookin into murrine
<xhaker> a comment inside radiobuttons draw routine ./* inconsistent state is missing? */
<xhaker> i have a class now. will be back later
<kwwii> see you soon
<troy_s> _MMA_: New NIN album.  CC licensed and FLAC.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Holy shit really?
<_MMA_> Link?
<troy_s> _MMA_: ghosts.nin.com
<troy_s> _MMA_: Still getting hammered.
 * _MMA_ goes now.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Free download, 5 bucks gets you FLAC or AAC (shit)
<troy_s> _MMA_: 10 gets you the cds plus immediate download.  Etc.
<_MMA_> Awesome to see Trent (or someone near him) knows a little something. :)
<_MMA_> I think Ill order the CD.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It's all Trent judging from the last two interviews I have read.
<_MMA_> Nice.
<troy_s> _MMA_: He was choked at the quality of the Radiohead album.
<troy_s> _MMA_:  So he wanted to offer a better version (360(?) on the MP3 and FLAC for paid.)
<_MMA_> I might get the Deluxe Edition. Kinda a historic collectors thing IMO.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yep.  Toying with that too.
<troy_s> _MMA_: The 300 dollar one might be helluva historic.
<_MMA_> $30? Thats really an awesome deal.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Not to mention that the bundle is pretty amazing.  Hell... Vinyl!
<_MMA_> yep
<troy_s> _MMA_: It goes back to my idea of making the bloody stuff worth buying again.  Pump the money into art direction etc... Nice to see that he has done it this way.  I suspect it will be a large smashing hit.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Site was _CLOBBERED_ last night.
<_MMA_> hehe
<_MMA_> Yeah. Im buying this now. Thanx for the heads up.
<troy_s> hrm... they moved the 'Free' over to the right side...
<troy_s> _MMA_: I tried to find you last night.  Rather bombshell.
<troy_s> _MMA_: No pre-announcement or anything.  Just poof -- instant site and huge news.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Oh and look -- LAME encoded.  Rather interesting.
<troy_s> (if you bother with the mp3 rubbish.)
<_MMA_> Must correct the s/$30/$300 for people watching. Damn I cant type. :P
<troy_s> lol
<_MMA_> troy_s: Yeah. Looks like he knows what to use. What the preferred encoders are.
<troy_s> _MMA_: 300 gets you everything -- it is an incremental setup.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Site is still getting hammered.  Good to see.
<_MMA_> $1000 Gets you the Pro-Tools session. :P
<_MMA_> (kidding)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Look at the 300 dollar version ;)
<troy_s> _MMA_: You get the source WAVs
<_MMA_> hahahahhahaha
<troy_s> _MMA_: Trent is _on_.
<_MMA_> Killer. Yeah. I gotta seriously consider this. Gotta convince the wife. :P
<troy_s> _MMA_: multi-track sessions in wav format.
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> _MMA_: If you had a paypal link on a blog... lol.
<andreasn> troy_s: did you manage to order?
<troy_s> andreasn: Nope... tried three times thus far.
<troy_s> andreasn: And that limited version I am wanting to buy is probably gone now.
<andreasn> :(
<andreasn> I just getting the regular 10 usd version, so I'll wait a day or two till the servers have settled down a bit
<troy_s> andreasn: Incremental.  You get immediate FLAC download.
 * _MMA_ wants the Ultra but will have to settle for Deluxe.
<troy_s> andreasn: _and_ the disks.
<troy_s> _MMA_: 300 for the three books, vinyl, disc, etc. is quite a steal really.
<_MMA_> Totally. Just gotta convince the wife of that. :P
<troy_s> to be totally honest... this could easily sell enough albums to make Trent a distributor (not that he isn't close already)
<_MMA_> :P
<Cimi> is this real? http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/03/02/two-new-themes-arrive-in-ubuntu-804/
<Cimi> quite ugly, I have a lot of better colorschemes
<kwwii> Cimi: yes it is true
<kwwii> and the gtkrc included is very crude and in now way finished
<kwwii> Cimi: in any case, we need to stick with typical ubuntu colors as seen in the Ubuntulooks stuff
<Cimi> kwwii, but in that way people will think clearlooks and murrine are ugly too
<Cimi> kwwii, I have a lot of better *orange/brown* colorschemes
<kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I am not saying it has to be 100% the same but it should look visually equal
<andreasn> is it the same metacity theme as before?
<Cimi> kwwii, I see no reason to ship such ugly themes
<kwwii> Cimi: nobody is saying we will ship the themes as they are
<Cimi> at least ship two new themes when you'll have something good
<Cimi> ok
<kwwii> the idea is to have something to work on
<kwwii> so that we can move forward, if only slowly at first
<Cimi> bah, I can make a theme in 2 minutes... it's not the problem
<kwwii> the problem is making you do what I want :p
<kwwii> lol
 * kwwii has to run to the store, be back in a bit
<Cimi> 1: http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/901/schermataev0.png
<Cimi> 1: http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5237/schermata1wo1.png
<Cimi> quick try
<Cimi> andreasn, impressions?
<andreasn> is that the active window?
<andreasn> I want the inactive window to look like that!
<Cimi> these are two themes I made when I said
<Cimi> <Cimi> bah, I can make a theme in 2 minutes... it's not the problem
<andreasn> :)
<andreasn> the flat-thingy you blogged about a couple of weeks ago was pretty nice
<andreasn> seems gilouche enabled that by default
<andreasn> I like the color of the metacity theme in the murrine screenshot, that looks pretty coo
<andreasn> l
<andreasn> anyway, I better get back to work
<Cimi> kwwii, ?
<vallhalla81> hello all
<xhaker> Cimi: murrine lacks inconsistent radio buttons :) you have a comment near the drawing code about it. but you better do something about it.. or i'll do!
<xhaker> hehe
<xhaker> kwwii: where is that email? did you send it to a list or me directly?
<xhaker> ubuntu-art. ok. will check it soon
<Cimi> kwwii, updates?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-04
<troy_s> Lines on Murrine tabs erm... should go?
<troy_s> Cimi> quite ugly, I have a lot of better colorschemes
<troy_s> Sure... ugly... from a guy who is using a wallpaper that looks like it was created with a crayon.  *sigh*.  WTF does ugly mean?  Anyone?
<_MMA_> troy_s: I think quite often with Cimi there's a language barrier and he would choose his words better if he could.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I am pretty sure 'ugly' means the same.  I just find it of questionable aesthetics when someone forwards an opinion and well... still puts some rather dated effects into their work.
<troy_s> _MMA_: But you and I speak the same language on that.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Side note -- ghosts is down.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Three times the expected response.
<_MMA_> hahahha
<thorwil> _MMA_: hi! so you can render my SVG? do you like the direction?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-05
<DarthFredd> Anyone here?
<DarthFredd> I was looking for a channel about art, and this is what I came up with.
<DarthFredd> Any suggestions for a better channel, or better network, are appreciated.
<kwwii> morning
<Tm_T> kwwii: moin moin
<kwwii> Tm_T: afternoon in the meantime :-)
<andreasn> kwwii: art meeting on saturday?
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, whether you like it or not you have to be there :-)
<andreasn> really?
<andreasn> well, I don't have anything else planned really, so sure
<andreasn> what time was it?
<kwwii> suggested is 21:00 UTC
<kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings
<kwwii> I'll firm that up later today
<andreasn> 21:00 utc, what's that in swedish/german time?
<andreasn> 22:00?
<Tm_T> kwwii: 1450 here (too)
<kwwii> andreasn: 21:00 is english time, atm
<andreasn> all right
<thorwil> _MMA_: finally got around to buidling inkscape svn: drawing glitches seem to be gone, export works
<_MMA_> Cool.
<kwwii> erm, seems my server died
<_MMA_> Ouch
<kwwii> oh well, did I miss anything?
<_MMA_> no
<kwwii> _MMA_: you didn't message me the meaning to life, did you?
<kwwii> I can always hope
<_MMA_> 42
<_MMA_> I thought all us geeks knew? :P
<oliver_g1> hello
<oliver_g1> just a note for you arty workers: I noticed that in Hardy hyperlinks in GTK are now displayed in orange on grey, which is difficult to read
<oliver_g1> see here: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2595/hardymurrinelinkcolor1om5.png
<oliver_g1> anyway, thanks for your work on the new theme
<kwwii> oliver_g1: is that the current stuff from today?
<kwwii> it looks like it
<oliver_g1> kwwii: yes, at least it's as up-to-date as I could get it :-)
<kwwii> I guess we can set those links to something better
<kwwii> sorry
<kwwii> that was my mistake
<kwwii> I wondered where those values where used!
<kwwii> thanks for noticing that...I'll fix it tomorrow (after midnight here)
<oliver_g1> kwwii: thanks
<oliver_g1> kwwii: maybe it could be back to blue? as that's what people recognize as links?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Thats a easy fix. Its an option near the top.
<kwwii> oliver_g1: yepp, definitely
<kwwii> oliver_g1: I'll set them to something reasonable tomorrow
<kwwii> kinda late here now
<oliver_g1> kwwii: (same here :)
<kwwii> thanks for noticing that
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-06
<xivulon> Hi all, is there any artwork planned for wubi/umenu?
<_MMA_> I've seen calls for help on the mailing list but no real work AFAIK.
<xivulon> I asked for some icons some time ago', I did create them myself, but are not very neat
<xivulon> Also now I am using the same log for kubuntu/kubuntu-kde4
<xivulon> logo^
<xivulon> if someone is interested pls let me know and I will provide further details
<_MMA_> xivulon: Unfortunately, I think you will have to rely on yourself. Maybe try another post to the mailing list.
<xivulon> I did already rely on myself...
<xivulon> current graphics is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha6#head-738a532079220eeb5e0aeb98e8eb0f6f3885b89b
<xivulon> eventual contributions would involve replacing the following bmp/ico files: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/umenu/devel/files/agostino.russo%40gmail.com-20080306001619-xbuv01zf5nyec2tc?file_id=images-20080212233008-kvy2sm0usmkk5nf3-11
<xivulon> Is there a different logo for kubuntu and kubuntu-kde4?
<_MMA_> xivulon: I dont believe so. Ask "Riddell" in some of the -devel channels or kwwii might know.
<xivulon> thx will do
<kwwii> erm, which icons are you talking about?
<kwwii> xivulon: there is not a different logo for kde4 kubuntu
<xivulon> kwwii thanks, Riddell said the same thing
<kwwii> I made a couple of pics for henrik a while ago
<xivulon> kwwii: for the icons if you look in the link above, you can see the ones I am using now
<xivulon> the ubuntu one is tidy, but the others (that I have made) do not look that good
<xivulon> I basically scaled the svg to 32x32 and saved as .ico
<xivulon> with arguable results
<xivulon> kwwii: I haven't seen any pic by the way
<xivulon> did not talk to henrik in a couple of weeks
<kwwii> xivulon: I still do not understand which icons you need :-)
<kwwii> is it just the small ubuntu icon or more?
<xivulon> kubuntu and xubuntu
<xivulon> the ubuntu one is fine and edubuntu does not come with a livecd anyway
<xivulon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/umenu/devel/annotate/agostino.russo%40gmail.com-20080306001619-xbuv01zf5nyec2tc?file_id=kubuntu.ico-20080214084104-v8wjgcoxex625uun-5
<kwwii> hrm, for kubuntu, you could use the glossy version from kdm or the kubuntu usplash
<xivulon> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/umenu/devel/annotate/agostino.russo%40gmail.com-20080306001619-xbuv01zf5nyec2tc?file_id=xubuntu.ico-20080214084104-v8wjgcoxex625uun-13
<xivulon> I just used plain 2D SVG logos with dropshwadow.... everyone got the same treatment...
<kwwii> well, there is already a small one that ubuntu uses, just save that as in ico file
<kwwii> then using the glossy kubuntu one could be used :-)
<kwwii> but anyway
<xivulon> You mean to replace ubuntu.ico? That is the one I got from the website
<xivulon> the wiki
<kwwii> well, I would use the one from the operating system
<kwwii> anyway, I won't get picky :-)
<xivulon> What is normally the path for that? Is there a place to get curreny icons across distros? Last q: are those expected to change before final?
<xivulon> current^
<kwwii> xivulon: that icon will not change before final :-)
<xivulon> kwwii: is this the one to use? /usr/share/pixmaps/ubuntu.svg
<kwwii> xivulon: yepp
<xivulon> ok
<xivulon> I assume that extends to kubuntu/xubuntu
<xivulon> for the graphics does a simple dropshadow on whitebackground work? or you have better ideas?
<kwwii> it looks kind of out of date, if you ask me
<kwwii> I would just use a simple image
<kwwii> perhaps a large one which is cropped by the bottom of the window
<kwwii> anyway, gotta run to the store
<kwwii> bbl
<xivulon> I have a predefined image size to respect (see the size of Ubuntu-vertical.bmp and Ubuntu-header.bmp). Will see what to do
<xhaker> Cimi: hello
<Cimi> hi xhaker
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-07
<Dreamless> So how is the new theme for Hardy going? I really look forward to ubuntu getting a "makeover"! But the old is still quite good compared to alot of other themes!
<DanaG> I think Ubuntu should package (or at least release officially on the wiki) an Aurora-based theme.
<DanaG> Example: www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png
<psyke83> hi, I've created two modified themes that I think may be worth checking out as candidates for testing, Human-Clearlooks-Mod and Human-Murrine-Mod. I'd appeciate any feedback! http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=716133 and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=715530
<_MMA_> psyke83: I'm sure the necessary people saw it on the ML as well. Most of the time that's the best place.
<psyke83> _MMA_, that's grand, then. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to chat here when the meeting happens (I'm preparing to move from Brazil -> Ireland), thanks
<psyke83> _MMA_, I didn't know what the standard practice was, e.g. to start an /Alternative wiki page, a Launchpad bug, etc
<_MMA_> AFAIK, the default theme is set. I don't know if the alt theme pack ever gained momentum.
<psyke83> _MMA_, that's good news. Cimi seems opposed to shipping murrine's stable release, but on the other hand, the Ubuntulooks engine appears to be unmaintained
<psyke83> I noticed that the bugs aren't getting attention on Launchpad, but are for Murrine and Clearlooks (part of GNOME), at least
<Cimi> kwwii, ping
<xhaker> Cimi: hello, how are you?
<Cimi> well thx
<xhaker> Cimi: I would like if you could add inconsistent state for radio buttons in murrine
<xhaker> Cimi: I thing you have commented the code with something like *Lacks inconsistent*
<Cimi> what do you mean with inconsistent?
<Cimi> I have to go
<xhaker> Do you know the applet that manages Appearance: Go to the tab Fonts, click Details.. select slight hinting.. close the details view. All radio buttons are in an inconsistent state.. None of them is selected!
<xhaker> Cimi: could you please try this procedure.. you'll get what I mean.
<xhaker> Cimi: Clearlooks shows a dash for inconsistent radio buttons. instead of the bullets
<_MMA_> xhaker: On the "Font Rendering Details" page?
<xhaker> _MMA_: glad to see someone get interested. only seb128 was
<_MMA_> I have various options selected here. A screenshot from your end would help.
<xhaker> http://leetcorp.net/theme-radio-easy-fix.png
<xhaker> that's my fix for ubuntulooks.. not really a fix.. more like a proof of concept
<xhaker> It is not hard to understand.
<_MMA_> Lemmie grab the Ubuntu theme. Im using Ubuntu Studio here.
<_MMA_> Doesnt happen here.
<xhaker> Subpixel smoothing => subpixel lcd + full hinting
<xhaker> if you have Subpixel smoothing selected.. but change in the deatils to Slight hinting
<xhaker> it is no longer the Subpixel smoothing option
<xhaker> it is a custom setting
<xhaker> so.. on the page that lets you choose the size of the fonts, it shows the 4 checkboxes selected
<xhaker> which is bad
<xhaker> none of them is selected. so some other visual hint should happen
<xhaker> like in the clearlooks theme
<_MMA_> Hmm.. I got it to do it here. Odd.
<xhaker> the bullets from the standard radio button selected drawing.. are replaced by dashes
<xhaker> _MMA_: that's not a bug of the applet
<_MMA_> I get them all being selected.
<xhaker> yes.. thats because the themes are buggy
<xhaker> change to clearlooks
<_MMA_> "theme" or engine"?
<xhaker> and you'll see
<xhaker> engine!
<xhaker> sorry
<xhaker> try clearlooks. you'll see how it handles this situation better
<_MMA_> I know. Since Cimi writes both he should have a solution.
<xhaker> _MMA_: That's why i'm bugging him
<_MMA_> xhaker: I doubt we will see a solution unless we pull the code from CVS because he's waiting for other things to be done before a "official" release.
<Cimi> xhaker, http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/murrine?view=revision
<Cimi> http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9839/20080307233824602x490sczo8.png
<xhaker> Cimi: that is Super. you're fast!
<Cimi> _MMA_, yesterday I've added --disable-rgba @ the configure
<Cimi> you can pull from svn and make packages with --disable-rgba
<_MMA_> Cimi: Nice. Ill see if I can get it updated. Is it pretty stable?
<Cimi> _MMA_, more than 0.53.1, I have fixes several bugs
<Cimi> and rewritten most of the code
<Cimi> the problem is that I'm not sure to pull all of that code without howtos for themes and things like this
<_MMA_> Ok. Ill work with the guys tomorrow to get something going.
<Cimi> it features 26 options :)
<_MMA_> I think for now, its just to fix bugs.
<_MMA_> Your official release will be the big deal. :)
<Cimi> no time
<_MMA_> My point is though we update, It wont be a big deal until you officially release.
<Cimi> I'd prefer, for marketing decisions :) to release when it is really done
<Cimi> also releasing for hardy +1
<Cimi> could be better for all the options that are useful to customize the gradients
<Cimi> (the new murrine can emulate other engines)
<_MMA_> We won't be making a big deal about the update. We'll leave that for you. ;)
<_MMA_> We'll have to test. Might not make it really. I wont know until tomorrow.
<kwwii> Cimi: pong
<Cimi> kwwii, ping pong
<Cimi> kwwii, i've seen some alpha 6 screenshots, they are using murrine
<Cimi> why?
<kwwii> Cimi: because we wanted to try it out
<Cimi> kwwii, but for test or for default
<Cimi> anyway seems better then the first tries
<kwwii> Cimi: it is very, very likely that we will use ubuntulooks in the end
<Cimi> I like the colors
<kwwii> yeah, it is getting a bit cleaner as well
<Cimi> metacity theme is horrible
<kwwii> lol
<_MMA_> It's awesome.
<Cimi> -.-
<kwwii> I think that for hardy there is little reason to go out on a limb and change things for the sake of change
<kwwii> hardy+1 is the perfect time for that
<kwwii> I am not sure how bug free murrine is compared to ubuntulooks
<Cimi> kwwii, muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more
<_MMA_> hahahahah
<Cimi> kwwii, ubuntulooks is unmaintained
<_MMA_> Like asking a cook who's food is better.
<Cimi> I'm a clearlooks developer
<Cimi> i develop for gnome, I receive all the bugs of gnome
<Cimi> and I have fixed them to murrine too
<Cimi> murrine is stable as clearlooks
<Cimi> other engines are a step behind
 * _MMA_ loves Cimi's modesty.
<Cimi> ;)
 * xhaker thinks clearlooks + ubuntulooks-scrollbars would do the trick
<kwwii> xhaker: you waited until cimi left to say that
 * _MMA_ knows that kwwii is scared to mix engines. ;) (chicken)
<xhaker> kwwii: he hacked on murrine for me today already
<xhaker> i would feel bad if I asked him to do this too
<xhaker> :D
<xhaker> kwwii: did you see the screenshot?
<xhaker> kwwii: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9839/20080307233824602x490sczo8.png
<xhaker> hint: radio buttons
<kwwii> xhaker: I find the orange buttons look to instense
<kwwii> they all seem active to me
<xhaker> on clearlooks i presume
<_MMA_> shhh, shhhhh
<kwwii> Cimi: _MMA_ has some crack idea about using two engines in one theme
<kwwii> :p
<Cimi> -.-
<Cimi> just do it for clearlooks
 * _MMA_ goes off to mix a ubuntulooks/murrine/pixmap/Nodoka gtkrc.
<kwwii> clearlooks with ubuntulooks for the scrollbars
<Cimi> OMG
<Cimi> x|
 * Cimi died
 * _MMA_ laughs at Cimi's death. :P
<xhaker> Cimi: what if someone takes the current clearlooks, and changes the drawing code for scrollbars for instance, and then call it ubuntulooks?
 * _MMA_ goes to be with the family.
<kwwii> yeah, I am heading out for the night as well
<xhaker> it thought of doing that, but i'm not very capable in cairo
<xhaker> s/it/I
<Cimi> why to do this?
<xhaker> Cimi: why not? what would be a better option in your opinion?
 * xhaker has yet to read the followups on ubuntu-art ML.
<Cimi> I don't like them
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-08
<hekatontarchos> hi
<hekatontarchos> I'm somewhat new to Ubuntu (first time I've switched completely), and I'd really like to contribute, but I'm not really sure how to get started
<hekatontarchos> Wallpapers aren't really my thing - I'm a lot more excited about the idea of designing the 'theme'?  (not sure if that's the right word, but the window borders, whatever that's called)
<hekatontarchos> I'd hate to have a nice design and butcher it with the coding or something like that, so I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction, or let me know if there is some sort of cooperative work being done where one person can do part and someone else fills in the rest, I would really appreciate it
<kwwii> one hour warning
<kwwii> 15 min warning
<kwwii> meeting soon
<mgunes> *goes to make coffee*
 * mikemaccana looks at topic
<mikemaccana> It sure does
<mikemaccana> So it's 9PM UTC - isn't the meeting now?
<mikemaccana> oops, -meeting channel
<DanaG> Hmm, that channel doesn't mention which meeting is going on right now.
<DanaG> I mean, the topic doesn't.
<CaioAlonso> the artwork meeting wasn't included in the schedule
<CaioAlonso> no idea why
<mikemaccana> What's that state of fela kuti as a gdm screen?
<DanaG> Hopefully it'd be the remix, not the "bloody" version.
<DanaG> That reminds me of another thing: my mom described the background as looking like "baby puke".  Perhaps the background color could be tweaked a bit.
<DanaG> Hmm, random link you've probably seen me paste before: HP Japan's wallpapers.  http://h50146.www5.hp.com/products/portables/personal/zen_wallpaper/
<mikemaccana> DanaG: You're right about the bloody version
<mikemaccana> I never noticed until someone pointed it out, but now all I see is a bird with it's throat cut
<DanaG> Same here.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I didn't like how the remixed version ALSO changed the background and bird placement/
<mikemaccana> DanaG: hahaha
<mikemaccana> I'm actually using one of those now - I have an HP notebook
<DanaG> If that Heron becomes the default wallpaper for Hardy, I am so going to get a case skin of it when I get my next laptop (in the summer).
<mikemaccana> hehehe
<DanaG> But I'll use the black-background version, and modify it to fit the lid color of the laptop (HP business, I'm considering).
<kwwii> boahahahaha! we be evil!
<DanaG> That was a bit random -- but hey, random is fun.
<kwwii> no, random would be like sometimes we are not evil and sometimes we are...this time it is like we be evil
<kwwii> the secret truth is that I cut the neck of the poor heron
<kwwii> before I even knew the artist who drew it
<kwwii> actually, I am surprised that nobody said it has breasts
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-03-09
<troy_s> mikemaccana: I did a revision that unioned the heads and such and shifted the hues.
<troy_s> mikemaccana: Just check the wiki.  2nd revision.
<Picklesworth> The heron in the re-remixed one (without red around throat) seems to have a very transparent looking heron
<Picklesworth> yet I can't find what is making it this way because my Inkscape-fu is weak!
<Picklesworth> has anyone tried a more opaque heron?
<Picklesworth> Right now the background kind of swallows it
<Picklesworth> Hm... is the selection of Emblems in Nautilus the art team's job?
<Picklesworth> If so, I strongly suggest they be trimmed
<Picklesworth> significantly
<Picklesworth> especially the CVS ones should be removed, maybe packaged seperately
<Picklesworth> HAH! It's raining in London!
<Picklesworth> Hm... completely the wrong tab for that last line
<Picklesworth> anyhow...
<Picklesworth> eek, now I'm just rubbing it in! Err, emblems question :O
<troy_s> Picklesworth: That was rather by design.
<troy_s> Picklesworth: It was the easiest way to nerf the tonal range without getting into colour issues.
<troy_s> Picklesworth: That said, it might be a little more strident.  Erring on the side of subtler at this state is rather important to get the sabdfl stamp of approval.
<Picklesworth> ah, understood
<troy_s> Picklesworth: The remix tries to address the various issues...
<troy_s> Picklesworth: 1) Moved the red to different areas to try and avoid the direct blood connotation.
<troy_s> Picklesworth: 2) Adjusted the tones such that the little people are more visible in the next (from remix2)
<troy_s> Picklesworth: 3) Unioned the little people so that they don't have overlapping segments of heads (they were originally two shapes -- a circle and a body, now they are one)
<troy_s> Minor twiddle to the tonal range of the background.
<DanaG> Hmm, I still wonder why the wallpaper-slideshow thingy "can't be done".
<oliver_g_> hello
<oliver_g_> did you notice that menu entries with checkboxes in front (and some other cases as well) have a smaller height than normal entries?
<kwwii> oliver_g_: report a bug if it is not already reported
<oliver_g_> kwwii: on which package would that go? human-theme?
<kwwii> oliver_g_: yeah, probably that or some general desktop thing
<oliver_g_> kwwii: made new bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/200336
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 200336 in human-theme "menu entries with checkboxes are lower than normal entries" [Undecided,New]
<troy_s> kwwii: ping?
<kwwii> troy_s: pong but not for long
<troy_s> kwwii: You still here?
<kwwii> heading out soon
<troy_s> kwwii: There isn't a helluva lot of time left on the wall front.
<kwwii> wassup?
<troy_s> kwwii: Just wondering what shifts are in the pipe etc.
<kwwii> yeah, I need to edit the pic to remove the bloody neck and tweak the background a bit to be more monochromatic
<troy_s> kwwii: Oh fuck
<troy_s> kwwii: Like uh...
<troy_s> kwwii: Anyways, the last revision I hit it with (anti-bloody unioned people etc.) is on that wiki.
<troy_s> kwwii: Monochromatic is just plain naff.  I have no idea how to say that any clearer _again_.  Shuttlebutt's _really_ needs to get off that fucking monochromatic binging.
<troy_s> kwwii: So anything above and beyond that?
<troy_s> (its sad that we didn't get the forward on the whole thing to be able to actually do the pattern along paths to round out the whole image.  It would seem less 'lazy', but such is the nature of the last minute.)
<kwwii> troy_s: off the top of my head at 00:21 my time on Sunday, no.....ask me again tomorrow :-)
<kwwii> there is the whole murrine vs ubuntulooks stuff
<kwwii> murrine is probably more bug free
<kwwii> but anyway, I am going to sleep
<kwwii> for now at least
<kwwii> tomorrow I will resume work on a few icons
<kwwii> yippeee
<troy_s> aight
<troy_s> out
 * troy_s outs as well.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-02
<thorwil> hi!
<SiDi> hi
<kwwii> howdy
<thorwil> kwwii: so your background deadline was yesterday, and the decision must be made until thursday?
<swalko> thorwil: today i started work on "new version" of calculator
<kwwii> thorwil: yeah, well...julian is on vacation this week so I am guessing it will be extended another week
<kwwii> thorwil: and the information I wrote up is being reviewed
<swalko> thorwil: it will be more perfect than real - same as brethe idea
<swalko> breathe
<thorwil> kwwii: lol. it almost sound like you would be working in a company like IBM ;)
 * _MMA_ waves
<thorwil> swalko: cool
<swalko> thorwil: here you ma see actual progress http://picasaweb.google.com/milan.krivda/Breathe#5308581062710088962
<swalko> thorwil: in next step i want to redefine buttons
<thorwil> swalko: it's hard to judge how that will look at 128 px and below, but the shading of the body surface is really good.
<thorwil> swalko: i think you shouldn't emphasize the bad aspects of lc-displays so much. ghost segments and strong reflection ...
<swalko> thorwil: in smaller sizes difference is visible too
<thorwil> swalko: oh, and the number should read 666 ;)
<swalko> thorwil: :)
<swalko> thorwil: now i must go ... after some progress i ping you
<thorwil> cya
<swalko> bye
<zniavre1> hello
<zniavre1> im trying jaunty and the new notify-osd . some body know how to modify the font color?  (with dark theme it looks dark on dark )
<zniavre1> knows*
<_MMA_> Wow. jimmac just unsubbed himself from the art list.
<thorwil> wasn't aware of him being subscribed
<thorwil> do we close it now?
<_MMA_> Yeah. Just a lurker I guess.
<_MMA_> hehe
<thorwil> swalko__, _MMA_ what do you think about trying a minimalistic "i" on help about? just a single stroke with rounded corners plus the dot
<_MMA_> thorwil: I'm open to whatever. I'd have to see it. I'm havin' a bit of a mental block taday so it's hard to imaging. :P
<_MMA_> *today
<thorwil> swalko__, _MMA_ http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1236013731.png
<thorwil> vs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=help-about.png
<_MMA_> thorwil: Ahh...
<_MMA_> thorwil: Actually, this was something was also gonna address. A consistent font to use throughout the set where needed.
<thorwil> _MMA_: well, this is more or less a no-font, but it's similar to the ubuntu font. i'm all for adjusting the i to this specific icon
<_MMA_> Sure
<thorwil> however, swalko__: i don't want to take this icon out of your hands
 * thorwil works on coutdown banners
<swalko__> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> hi swalko__
<swalko__> thorwil: help-about is not true my icon
<swalko__> thorwil: i only added that i
<thorwil> swalko__: where does the rest come from?
<swalko__> thorwil: from breathe icon set i mean :)
<swalko__> thorwil: help icon
<swalko__> thorwil: for me ... font what you used on that icon isnt styled like that icon
<swalko__> thorwil: but may be used on all icon sizes
<swalko__> thorwil: my font isnt usable in all iszes because in smaller sizes it isnt clearly redable
<thorwil> swalko__: i would work with rectangles exactly on the pixel grid for the smallest 2 sizes
<swalko__> thorwil: yes yes i know, but your font is looking very close to original used font in bigger sizes
<swalko__> thorwil: with my font that isnt possible
<swalko__> apps/help-browser
<swalko__> i like that icon
<swalko__> http://markmail.org/message/cezj67w7qamd6qtn
<swalko__> long but interresting reading
<thorwil> no, i will not bother with kde politics/technicalities ;)
<swalko__> thorwil: :) did you founded that help icon?
<thorwil> swalko__: no, but i didn't look
<swalko__> ok
<swalko__> thorwil: you may do/polish that icon
<thorwil> guess i will. after work on countdown banners
<swalko__> thorwil: i seened help icon, like that and visioned my
<swalko__> thorwil: on irc is sebastianporta who?
<thorwil> swalko__: he's never here. at least not when i'm on
<swalko__> thorwil: and communication?
<thorwil> swalko__: the list, email
<swalko__> thorwil: ah
<swalko__> thorwil: mailing list is very live
<swalko__> thorwil: i readed mail about font used in my icon
<swalko__> thorwil: i future may we choose one or more fonts that will be used in all icons?
<swalko__> in future
<thorwil> swalko__: that would be the idea, yes
<swalko__> thorwil: ok thank i will reply in this way to that mail
<_MMA_> kwwii: Where's Julian? :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: vacation
<_MMA_> Oh yeah. You did say. :P
<swalko__> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Discussion where may i find svgs from Generic/empty Concepts
<swalko__> ?
 * _MMA_ smiles as thorwil has become my Liaison. :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-03
<ScorpKing> hi everyone
<ScorpKing> i need a custom picture for a usplash theme. can someone here help or maybe know where i can get help?
<_MMA_> ScorpKing: A static pic or someone to implement a Usplash theme?
<ScorpKing> i'll make the theme. just need the jpg
<_MMA_> ScorpKing: Emailing the ML would be best as more people follow there.
<ScorpKing> _MMA_: thanks
<swalko> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> hi swalko
<swalko> thorwil: what are you saying about updated calc?
<thorwil> swalko: i still think it would benefit from rounding the edges
<swalko> thorwil: there are rounded edges
<thorwil> swalko: on the large size, if you make the buttons a tad bigger, you might be able to get the numbers to be sharper
<swalko> thorwil: i tried export in 1:1 size an resize with gimp
<swalko> thorwil: there is big difference in sharpness
<swalko> thorwil: export from inkscape is looking blurry
<swalko> thorwil: export on 8x size and resize in gim is much sharper
<thorwil> swalko: show me
<swalko> thorwil: minute a do
<thorwil> swalko: the frame around the LCD is a bit odd. is it meant to bulge outward?
<_MMA_> swalko: In the end, we have to worry about what the Inkscape export looks like since that's how the set is generated.
<thorwil> swalko: i would expect an opening in the case and a glass sitting below it, with a black frame printed on the glass. the lcd panel being the last layer
<thorwil> _MMA_: i wouldn't rule out the ubuntu titling font, yet
<_MMA_> thorwil: I'm not.
<swalko> thorwil: http://picasaweb.google.com/milan.krivda/Breathe#5309051192187503122
<thorwil> swalko: the differences are almost entirely on the numbers
<swalko> thorwil: for me that numbers look completely different
<swalko> thorwil: diferences with diference mask are clearly visible
<_MMA_> swalko: Are the numbers fonts or paths?
<swalko> thorwil: fonts
<thorwil> do we have to file a feature request for oversampling on export now? :/
<swalko> thorwil: but
<swalko> thorwil: it is still one same export form inkscape
<swalko> thorwil: first 1:1 second 8:8 resized in gimp
<swalko> 8:1
<swalko> thorwil: not opened svg in gimp
<thorwil> too bad there's no way i can do x8 with my backgrounds :)
<_MMA_> swalko: You got an answer for me?
<swalko> thorwil: sry i answered your answer to thorwil
<thorwil> _MMA_: fonts
<swalko> _MMA_: sry i answered your answer to thorwil
<_MMA_> swalko: I would try to fonts->paths then export to bitmap.
<_MMA_> (from inkscape)
<swalko> _MMA_: diferences are not only on fonts
<swalko> _MMA_: at example border around lcd is diferenced too
<thorwil> true. but only the differences on the numbers are really obvious
<_MMA_> swalko: I understand. You gotta make it all work through Inkscape.
<thorwil> swalko: anyway, _MMA_ is not going to write a script that does x8 and resize ...
<swalko> _MMA_: yes yes , all exported in inkscape
<_MMA_> thorwil: "resize"?
<thorwil> _MMA_: scale down
<swalko> thorwil: i dont understand
<_MMA_> thorwil: What would need to be scaled down if all the SVGs should be drawn to size?
<thorwil> swalko: i mean that i highly doubt _MMA_ will extend the script to export in x8 size to then scale down using whatever
<_MMA_> Ahh... :P No. Things should be drawn at the intended use size.
<thorwil> _MMA_: sheesh, pay attention ;p
<_MMA_> thorwil: I'm slow today man. Got alot going on here.
<swalko> thorwil: i must used translator, because english isnt my native language. Yes frame around is bulged outward
<thorwil> swalko: i think that's a rather unusual detail and against what one expects to see there
<swalko> thorwil: i am not so brave to say what is one expects to see there
<swalko> thorwil: in the world exist thousands of different calculator
<swalko> calculators
<_MMA_> swalko: *You* are in control of that. If *you* like what you see that polish it up and call it done. :)
<_MMA_> s/that/then
<knome> which calc are we talking about?
<_MMA_> knome: A calculator for the Breathe icon set.
<swalko> thorwil: i wanted to know one thing, but you wasnt here yesterday
<swalko> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Discussion where may i find svg for generic/empty concepts ?
<_MMA_> swalko: On the 1st page.
<thorwil> swalko: i don't think there is one
<knome> _MMA_, calculator *icon* ?:)
<_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
<_MMA_> knome: yeah
<knome> ok. where can i see curent progress? :)
<_MMA_> swalko: And not that I mind thorwil answering questions, but since I'm the lead on Breathe you might wanna direct more questions to me. :)
<thorwil> oh yeah
<_MMA_> knome: The above link will lead you to all the info one would normally seek.
<thorwil> brb
<swalko> thorwil: ok :) you wasnt here over weekend. and i talked with thorwil about more things
<knome> normally? ;)
<swalko> _MMA_: ok :) you wasnt here over weekend. and i talked with thorwil about more things
<swalko> _MMA_: we may talk now?
<knome> _MMA_, can you say i'm normal? :P
<_MMA_> knome: I don't know yet.
 * _MMA_ reserves judgment.
<_MMA_> swalko: Sure.
<knome> :]
<swalko> _MMA_: is needed to set standard fonts that may be used in breathe set
<_MMA_> swalko: I'm sorry. Can you try to re-word that question? I don't quite understand.
<_MMA_> swalko: Note that the template is also linked at the top of the "Submissions" page.
<swalko> _MMA_: is needed to choose right fonts and publish list with these font that may be used in icons for breathe icon set
<_MMA_> swalko: I can only guess your question. Are you asking if we need a standard font to use on all Breathe Icons?
<swalko> _MMA_: you mean it isnt needed?
<_MMA_> Gotta love language barriers. :)
<_MMA_> swalko: If you follow the mailing list, yo'll see we are trying to settle on a standard font. Yes. It's needed.
<swalko> _MMA_: i subscribed only this weekend and not followed older mails, because in mailing list are a lot of new mails
<swalko> daily
<_MMA_> This is a new topic started today.
<knome> _MMA_, comic sans!
<_MMA_> knome: And it's license is?
<swalko> _MMA_: currently i am reading between work in inkscape, inkscape and xchat
<swalko> L)
<swalko> pidgin
<knome> _MMA_, who cares, let's rip it off and use it anyway ;)
<_MMA_> swalko: I understand. Just know that if you're going to be involved with Breathe that's where most of the daily info will be.
<_MMA_> knome: As I don't quite know you yet, and I take this pretty seriously, I'd like us to keep it that way on this subject.
<knome> ok. sorry. :)
<swalko> _MMA_: how is process for adopting icons int breathe set?
<_MMA_> knome: np ;)
<swalko> _MMA_: artists upload icons on wiki, what will be next?
<_MMA_> swalko: I really don't understand the question.
<_MMA_> Oh oh.
<swalko> :-D
<_MMA_> I got you. Yes. Uploading to the wiki or discussing ideas on the mailing list.
<_MMA_> After Sebastien and I are happy (and there's no major outcry from the community) it goes in BZR. (our version control system)
<_MMA_> swalko: The images on the wiki are linked to BZR. SO as new icons are added/updated so is the wiki.
<_MMA_> There is also a PPA that currently has 1 release in it.
<swalko> _MMA_: you are picking/choosing icons into bzr?
<_MMA_> Yes. I am the one handling the technical side of things in hopes it frees others up to just create. I put together icons here and there when I can.
<swalko> _MMA_: are you using jimmacs scripts for exporting icons from svg?
<_MMA_> Not the same ones but they are based on the same idea.
<swalko> _MMA_: use your scripts this idea? ... use text object named context/icon-name in plate layer for icon name identification?
<_MMA_> Yes
<swalko> _MMA_: i am trying now to write simple step by step guide for newbies how to use one canvas workflow
<_MMA_> swalko: Just open the template and look at the object metadata.
<_MMA_> swalko: All of my work including the build script is on Launchpad.
<swalko> _MMA_: now i havent much time to study how scripts work i just use that now
<swalko> _MMA_: content in my guide depend on that fact
<swalko> _MMA_: i may try to finish the guide now and send you over mail to review
<_MMA_> Like you, I don't have much time to review it. All an artist/n00b mush understand is how to run the script and where to place images so Inkscape properly exports them.
<_MMA_> s/mush/must
<swalko> _MMA_: i fully understand, but it taked little time
<swalko> _MMA_: thats the reason why i am writing guide
<swalko> thorwil: ping
<thorwil> good night!
<knome> night
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-04
<swalko> thorwil: hi
<thorwil> swalko: hi. i knew it was you before even looking :)
<swalko> :-D
<swalko> thorwil: i finished small "guide" for working with one canvas workflow
<thorwil> swalko: where is it?
<swalko> thorwil: it must be reviewed i mean
<swalko> thorwil: my native language isnt english
<swalko> thorwil: and two heads more know
<thorwil> swalko: sure. that was my idea. you write it, i can take care of language issues
<swalko> thorwil: may you review that guide an correct bugs/mistakes ?
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> swalko: create a wiki page with it, but don't link to it, just post the link here
<swalko> thorwil: ok i try to do something :)
<swalko> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MilanKrivda
<thorwil> swalko: i think that's all correct. however, isn't it easier to work from one of the icons in the repository?
<swalko> thorwil: yes it maybe, but after then you have not clean svg (ae gradients)
<swalko> thorwil: but we may do svg without gradients with simple objects
<swalko> thorwil: if i understand good
<thorwil> swalko: i don't understand how it has anything to do with gradients
<_MMA_> swalko: Also, this is very specific to what we're doing in Breathe. There are many ways this setup can work. jimmacs is somewhat different from mine for example.
<_MMA_> swalko: Unless that is your goal. I thought you were going for a generic guide.
<thorwil> _MMA_: are there SVGs in breath that conform to the template, but havn't been edited at all?
<_MMA_> thorwil: For Breathe, yeah.
<thorwil> _MMA_: his goal is a Breathe specific guide
<swalko> _MMA_: you may edit that wiki
<_MMA_> thorwil: Wait. "but haven't been edited at all?" What do you mean? Like just blank icons in the set?
<thorwil> _MMA_: with this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MilanKrivda, you have to look for the proper name and all. is that a process you would encourage?
<swalko> _MMA_: i posted it only for review / correction
<thorwil> _MMA_: placeholders, basically
<_MMA_> thorwil: I though about it but it would mean there would be blank icons generated. That would be bad.
<thorwil> _MMA_: so if someone wants to work on an icon that wasn't already a submission, what swalko wrote are the steps to be taken?
<_MMA_> thorwil: /Pretty/ much.
<thorwil> _MMA_: how about you tell him where to move that wiki page to, to then link it? i can fix the few language issues then
<_MMA_> I already did. I moved to front page. You or I can edit.
<_MMA_> Under "Workflow".
<thorwil> _MMA_: i will, you cab check afterwards for the finer subtleties of your native language ;)
<_MMA_> k. The template part is now redundant. So we should take it out of swalkos info.
<_MMA_> brb
<swalko> _MMA_: i used redundant part from breathe pages
<_MMA_> swalko: No. You don't understand. We'll fix it.
<swalko> _MMA_: i understand,
<swalko> _MMA_: today i uploaded fixed text-x-generic
<swalko> _MMA_: now i want traverse oxygen icons mimetypes and choose usable icons for breathe mimetypes
<swalko> _MMA_: or is it bad idea?
<_MMA_> swalko: I have ideas for that. I'll handle it.
<_MMA_> swalko: I'll still look at your fix.
<_MMA_> What was broken?
<swalko> _MMA_: in 16x16 size frame was blurred
<swalko> _MMA_: there wasnt white background
<swalko> _MMA_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons/MimeTypes
<_MMA_> The background thing was already fixed,
<swalko> _MMA_: but on wiki it isnt
<_MMA_> Ill look at it.
<swalko> _MMA_: after that you may kick out that icon from wiki
<_MMA_> swalko: I also want you to remove icons your done with or have better revisions for.
<_MMA_> ie: calculator.
<swalko> _MMA_: ok
<swalko> _MMA_: attachments too?
<thorwil> yes
<_MMA_> swalko: If you make a better version, always remove older ones.
<swalko> _MMA_: sometimes i dont know if is newer version better :)
<swalko> _MMA_: if you want use some icons from oxygen in svn are version for smaller sizes too
<swalko> wiki updated
<_MMA_> swalko: I regularly pull their revisions. At some point, it doesn't matter what they're doing because we're simply taking inspiration from them. We don't *need* to use their stuff. I'd rather new things be drawn from scratch. (new)
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
<_MMA_> swalko: Since we already added you text to the Breathe front page, futher edits should be done there after thorwil is done.
<thorwil> still have to rephrase point 4, but coffee break now :)
<thorwil> bbl
<_MMA_> k
<swalko> _MMA_: i know, but on wiki is wroted "We start with a base Oxygen set and replace the icons as suitable ones are created. The idea is to create as modern a set as Oxygen but with that distinctly Human feel."
<swalko> _MMA_: i talked about that
<_MMA_> swalko: Sure. But that doesn't mean you *have* to take from Oxygen. Sebastien has drawn all his from scratch.
<_MMA_> swalko: It simply has to fit with what we're doing.
<swalko> _MMA_: i am taking something from oxygen?
<swalko> _MMA_: mimetypes arent taken?
<_MMA_> swalko: I'll be working on the mimetypes.
<_MMA_> I have a different idea than simple white paper with an image on it.
<swalko> _MMA_: that is good, because i meaned on that too
<_MMA_> swalko: They will be changed.
<_MMA_> I'll be using the same basic shape but different.
<swalko> _MMA_: i like "mimetype" in botoom https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Discussion
<swalko> bottom
<_MMA_> swalko: How about you work on Emblems or the "shortcut" image?
<_MMA_> swalko: Emotes would also be nice.
<swalko> _MMA_: i have one favourite emotes and i think their will not be exceeded
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'm confused, are there 1 or 2 text objects required?
<swalko> thorwil: 2
<swalko> thorwil: one labeled context
<swalko> thorwil: second labeled icon-name
<_MMA_> swalko: Regardless if you think we can't "exceed" your favorite Breathe still needs some. You're welcome to try your hand at creating some.
<swalko> _MMA_: i mean i cannot exceed that emoticons
<swalko> _MMA_: i may try shortcut emblem
<_MMA_> ok
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
<thorwil> swalko: you might want to have a look at the wiki code to avoid manual numbering and lots of <<BR>> in future ;)
<swalko> thorwil: first time what i posted something on ubuntu wiki :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: We should add a note about vacuuming defs there also. I've cut file sizes down by over half before. It doesn't matter for the set as it's built into the script but it matters for the source.
<thorwil> _MMA_: ok, but my hands are off the wiki for a bit now :)
<_MMA_> np
<thorwil> step 6 is by far the hardest thing to get
<thorwil> swalko: thanks for your writeup, btw :)
<swalko> thorwil: nfw. good work
<swalko> thorwil: yes it is complicated to write
<swalko> thorwil: i mean pictures may help
<thorwil> swalko: be careful with "nfw", it commonly stands for a no fucking way. or a bunch of other things you surely don't mean http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/NFW
<_MMA_> thorwil: I might keep my "start-here" button and use the new one as "distributor-logo" since it supersedes "start-here".
<swalko> thorwil: :)
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'd prefer either submission to your start-here icon, as it looks damn aggressive
 * thorwil uses a recent checkout on his desktop
<_MMA_> thorwil: "Aggressive"? I don't see it at all. :) But your preference is noted.
<swalko> thorwil: what you mean? http://picasaweb.google.com/milan.krivda/Breathe#5309353469841218146
<thorwil> swalko: yes
<swalko> thorwil: perspective may be tweaked to better fit
<_MMA_> swalko: You could also look at doing some of the hardware icons. Like printers, scanners and such. And note that I didn't say you *can't* use the ones from Oxygen. It would just be nice to draw new ones. But starting with theirs and adding or tweaking is fine.
<_MMA_> swalko: Note that with some of the HW like printers that emblems are also used. Those, I prefer we do ourselves from scratch.
<swalko> _MMA_l: some icons for hw may fit after tweaking from oxygen, but most hw icons must be drawed ... i mean
<swalko> _MMA_l: because (for me personally) oxygen hw icons are drawed in different styles from one to one
<swalko> _MMA_: some icons for hw may fit after tweaking from oxygen, but most hw icons must be drawed ... i mean
<swalko> _MMA_: because (for me personally) oxygen hw icons are drawed in different styles from one to one
<swalko> i used bad nick
<_MMA_> swalko: That's why you take what feels right and tweak or redraw. I know the deal. ;) Do what you like.
<_MMA_> swalko: You just said the same thing I said 3 different ways and I repeated myself. :) I'm just giving you suggestions here.
<swalko> _MMA_: :)
<_MMA_> swalko: Let's treat each other like we both know what's going on. There are some things that just don't need to be said. We all understand what needs to be done to create a set generally.
<swalko> _MMA_: ok ;-)
<_MMA_> dashua: I'd like to use the light menu version of Dark Suit for the alt desktop project.
<dashua> _MMA_: Ok, cool.  I'll make the changes, unless you wanted to hack it.
<_MMA_> dashua: You dropped the light menus?
<dashua> This is a different theme.
<dashua> Miu is the other although a bit different.
<_MMA_> Ahh.... Yeah. Duh. I remember now. :P
<_MMA_> Scratch what I said. Man I can't pull it together today.
<dashua> Ah ,np.
<_MMA_> dashua: But, I'd still like to use you for a custom variant or one of your themes for alt-desktop still.
<dashua> Alright, sounds good.
<dashua> I just figured I make something like that Balthazar theme as people really seemed to like it.
<dashua> But it needed a lot of work IMO.
<dashua> was*
<_MMA_> dashua: We need a GDM to go with your theme and alt-desktop. :)
<dashua> I need to figure out how to make one ;]
<_MMA_> dashua: Don't worry for now. I'm looking to gave more activity on alt-desktop in a few weeks. I need so shape up more of the base 1st.
<_MMA_> s/gave/get
<dashua> Ok, cool.
<dashua> Out for lunch.  Bbl. :]
<swalko> _MMA_: i have one question
<thorwil> my advice: just ask the question, don't ask to ask
<swalko> thorwil: i want to talk about tray icons
<swalko> thorwil: updated help-about and applications-science
<swalko> thorwil: what you mean?
<thorwil> swalko: you need to make the dot of the i a bit wider for it to look as wide as the stroke
<swalko> thorwil: np
<thorwil> swalko: i like the green fluid. looks like liquid science :)
<thorwil> gotta go, good night! :)
<swalko> thorwil: bye
<_MMA_> night
<knome> we're doing a gdm theme for xubuntu. any input is welcome: http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/jaunty-gdm-mockup-3.png
<knome> i'm not very good at doing realistic things, so if somebody would have some advice to get it looking more realistic easily, that would be very welcome.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-05
<_MMA_> knome: What is the overall theme/feel you're going for?
<_MMA_> knome: Across the whole of the Xubuntu-Jaunty art.
<swj> hi
<knome> _MMA_, something surreal and darkish.
<knome> _MMA_, there is already a quick/first mockup for the wallpaper: http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/jaunty-wall-mockup.png
<swalko_> _MMA_:hi
<_MMA_> yo
<swalko_> _MMA_: have you idea about tray icons?
<_MMA_> None.
<_MMA_> swalko_: Make up a proposal. Send it to the list.
<swalko_> _MMA_: my idea is to make tray icons only in one color
<zniavre> hello / bonjour
<swalko_> _MMA_: black and white versions
<zniavre> why notify-osd is dark on dark (bg/fg) on some icons theme
<swalko_> zniavre: because that themes have dark color for text
<_MMA_> swalko_: I would not make 2 versions. Make 1 version that will work on different backgrounds. A user should no be expected to switch the icons out.
<swalko_> _MMA_: i may try to create some icons. Color may be tweaked later
<_MMA_> swalko_: Sure. Make what you like. :) In the end, 1 set will go into Breathe and it should work on all backgrounds.
<swalko_> _MMA_: without limitation. it will be best if tray icons may be colored by theme :)
<_MMA_> swalko_: Sure. *If* it worked that way. Sadly, it does not.
<swalko_> _MMA_: i know ... :(
<_MMA_> swalko_: One position we /could/ take is that we make sure it works with whatever the Human theme does and all other themes be dammed. It's not bad to say "These icons aren't made for your theme." You think Apple worries about their tray icons and the dark themes people make? :)
<swalko_> _MMA_: there is currently no different way i mean
<swalko_> _MMA_: in 9.10 will be new ubuntu theme used?
<andreasn> _MMA_, but you can't switch the colors of the panel i OS X, can you?
<_MMA_> swalko_: I'm unsure as I've been working more on Ubuntu Studio. Theme-wise anyway.
<andreasn> I wonder if GNOME Shell is going to hardcode the panel color or not
<_MMA_> andreasn: You can use custom themes. It requires additional software.
<andreasn> ah
<_MMA_> andreasn: If that happens, I'll leave GNOME theming for sure.
<andreasn> oh?
<andreasn> it would be a way to use monochrome icons, because then you could always know the background color
<_MMA_> andreasn: If anything is hard-coded in new versions of GNOME.
<andreasn> I wonder if it would work to use fonts to display monochrome stuff
<_MMA_> andreasn: Give people the ability to do anything. Who cares if Ubuntu's icons don't work on theme X? We have to be able to say "No. This isn't meant to work with that." So limiting themers to me isn't the way to go.
<andreasn> maybe a bit crazy, but the text color is always made sure to be visible
<_MMA_> IMO, it's not a distros (or anyones) responsibility to make sure all themes work together.
<andreasn> oh, I was more worried that we have several, easy accessible switches to screw things up ("if you press this button, you'll no longer be able to see anything") kind of situations
<_MMA_> Well for me that has come down more to application design.
<andreasn> I guess so
<_MMA_> Ill brb. (gotta get kids off to school)
<andreasn> I guess saying "this won't work with everything" is a start
<knome> gdmflexiserver --xnest doesn't work like expected with twinview. any ideas?
<_MMA_> knome: Not here.
<knome> x="50%" is more like 80%
<savvas> how about debugging info: gdmflexiserver --xnest -d
<savvas> ( not that I know how to fix it :) )
<knome> can you set the xnest resolution?
<savvas> no, I just read gdmflexiserver --help :P
<knome> only some OK responses.
<_MMA_> knome: I found that if I had all the available resolutions for my screen in xorg that it used the next one down for xnest.
<knome> ok...
<knome> what if i only have one resolution? :P
<_MMA_> That, I don't know. Regardless of advances in tech I continue to use my xorg from 3 years ago.
<_MMA_> dashua: Hit me up when you are back from dreamland.
<xanax`> hello
<xanax`> hello
<xanax`> does someone know if GDM face browser (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/GdmFaceBrowser) is still a project in development or if it has been abandoned ?
<thorwil> xanax`: for all i know it is not abandoned, but it has been pushed out 2 times already. so next chance is karmic
<xanax`> yep, maybe
<SiDi> Hello
<SiDi> A blue science icon would rock : its always good to have mana under hand
 * SiDi is sorry.. really..
<_MMA_> Geek. :P
<SiDi> Hehe
<SiDi> i assume :)
<SiDi> tho, i'm very happy that we'll have Dust and New Wave coming in community-themes, cheers on that
<Yasumoto> whoa, there's a community-themes package? epic
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-06
<zniavre> hello
<zniavre> is there a testing pack of breathe icon theme ?
<zniavre> sorry just found it
<zniavre> :o)
<Cimi> kwwii, I am receiving bugreports about the murrine version ubuntu is shipping... could you please update? :)
<Cimi> ubuntu is shipping and old, slow, and bugged version
<kwwii> Cimi: not sure, I am busy working on stuff now and leave for south africa tomorrow for a week
<Cimi> kwwii, when you will come back then
<Cimi> the important thing is that it should be ok for jaunty, I'm so tired of answering people "please update your engine"
<Cimi> kwwii, I've introduced dummy support, the upgrade process won't make themes ugly
<andreasn> kwwii, oh, sounds warm and nice. Vacation?
<kwwii> Cimi: is there a package ready but waiting for sponsoring?
<Cimi> kwwii, ?
<kwwii> I can see that something gets in but I really don't have time to package anything until much later and I am afraid that it will be too late
<Cimi> no
<kwwii> andreasn: nope, work :(
<andreasn> kwwii, ah. But still, nicer weather than Europe
<Cimi> andreasn, I'm going for a 3 day trip to the Alps this weekend
<Cimi> vacation for me )
<Cimi> :)
<andreasn> Cimi, cool. Hope you'll have a good time
<_MMA_> kwwii: I can't promise anything, but I'll try to get it done. My hold up will be getting the freeze exception.
<kwwii> _MMA_: I can probably take care of that by talking to pitti directly
<Cimi> that's why I'm pinging benzea, he thinks I'm going to fix the progressbars inside gtkentry but I don't think I will take my laptop with me just for him :-P
<_MMA_> kwwii: Ok. I'll see what I can do.
 * kwwii tests yet another usplash
<Cimi> _MMA_, before monday clearlooks will support the progressbar inside gtkentry, murrine will follow soon. So please ask for the freeze exception and wait me until I will tell you that you can update
<_MMA_> Cimi: Just ping me then. Make sure the release is on your site. That will make it easier. And don't wait too long. There's really no time left.
<_MMA_> Cimi: My guys are burnt out and looking forward to relaxing. (no more packaging)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-07
<Nece228> hi
<Nece228> ive found bug with human theme
<Nece228> http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bugvkf.jpg
<Nece228> the lower area should be orange
<SiDi> huh ??
<Nece228> i mean under the scrollbar
<Nece228> *volume control scrollbar
<SiDi> I don't understand what should be orange :/
<Nece228> SiDi: look at red arrow i marked
<SiDi> i did
<Nece228> theres volume level
<Nece228> wait a sec
<Nece228> ill post how it should look normally
<SiDi> that'd help :P
<Nece228> http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normali.jpg
<Nece228> maybe thats because i upgraded to latest murrine svn
<SiDi> oh i see what you mean now
<SiDi> if you use the murrine svn engine it may come from it, yeh
<SiDi> i'm having bugs with it too
<SiDi> orange bottom border line below buttons, instead of white, with human reprise
<Nece228> yes, thats what i mean :)
<Nece228> is there any fix?
<dilomo> hey everyone
<dilomo> thorwil: ping
<thorwil> hi dilomo
<dilomo> what's up
<dilomo> would you like to see a screenshot
<dilomo> thorwil:  here's a link
<dilomo> http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1236448110.png
<thorwil> seems piccdrop is still too popular. hope this speed will fix that :)
<dilomo> speed?
<thorwil> loading s l o w
<thorwil> already can see there's Mads's wallpaper
<thorwil> a titlebar appears!
<thorwil> followed by a menu
<thorwil> now i can see tabs
<thorwil> a second titlebar
<dilomo> :)
<thorwil> oh, the suspense!
<dilomo> thorwil: btw this wallpaper turned out to be pretty good
<thorwil> now it's almost to the bottom of the calendar widget
<dilomo> so you've seen the new focus
<dilomo> for textboxes
<dilomo> what do you think of it
<thorwil> dilomo: feels a bit odd because the difference is only clear on the top
<thorwil> so it's not balanced
<dilomo> asked it just because of that
<dilomo> but i'm wondering if I change
<dilomo> the bottom line to something lighter the control will become too light
 * SiDi sees a titlebar, too ! \o/
<thorwil> dilomo: try to imagine the widget as physical object
<dilomo> yeah i tried and rediced the dropped shadow of entries by 1px and made the bottom line a bit lighter in order to merge better with the bg
<dilomo> SiDi: nice :)
<thorwil> dilomo: you could either have a back-light, with the white ground being translucent or not. even with an opaque white, light could come through the edges
<thorwil> dilomo: the "natural" light source would become unimportant
<thorwil> shadows erased more or less erased
<thorwil> strike that "either"
<dilomo> thorwil:  hmm I'm having difficultie understanding youe English. what the last two lines mean
<thorwil> dilomo: that's likely because i'm typing rubbish :)
<thorwil> dilomo: i mean: light from behind, shining through the edges, would reduce or eliminate the shadow caused by the global light source
<dilomo> oh I understand now :)
<dilomo> so you suggest that the orange light eliminates the grey borders
<dilomo> and aids the white bg?
<thorwil> yes
<dilomo> so I may make the inactive entries have a bit of gray in the bg
<dilomo> and thus further increase the effect
<dilomo> thorwil: btw have a look at the progressbars
<dilomo> I still use a horiz gradient that is very weak but is giving some depth of the bar
<thorwil> dilomo: i don't notice a change there
<dilomo> see the vertical ones and you'll see that that a lighter at the edges
<dilomo> thorwil: or probably I should strenghten it abit
<dilomo> the middle colors
<thorwil> *shrug*
<dilomo> I will try and see if it is good
<dilomo> thorwil: btw can I edit the folder icons
<dilomo> for the breath iconset
<thorwil> dilomo: of course you can. if _MMA_ accepts your changes is another question
<dilomo> because now it looks a bit blurry
<dilomo> ok
<dilomo> I will try my best
<dilomo> I have to run
<dilomo> bye
<thorwil> cya
<thorwil> good timing. blender fullscreen time!
<SiDi> hi zniavre :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-03-08
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/JauntyCountdownBanners#Thorwil%27s%20Ring
<knome> http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/jaunty-countdown/
<thorwil> knome: pretty cool. i combined the sunrise idea with my submission for last release, but it wan't among the versions taken
<knome> yeah.
<knome> the image is from our gdm theme
<thorwil> knome: is it on purpose the the CoC is least visible on the last?
<knome> CoC?
<thorwil> circle of friends
<knome> oh
<knome> i didn't *design* it to be like that; however, i've addressed the issue and i think we'll leave it as is.
<knome> actually i added the logo in quite late
 * thorwil takes a walk
<knome> enjoy
<thorwil> i need to combine 2 batches of images. all images have the same size, but one batch needs on offset of 31 pixels upwards
<thorwil> how can i do that using Imagemagick?
<knome> combine which way?
<thorwil> knome: simple composite
<thorwil> but nevermind, i solved it
<knome> ok :)
<thorwil> i initially tried to do it within a single "compose" command, but it seem you can only offset the upper image that way, while i need to shift the lower
<knome> okay
<knome> i struggled with imagemagick yesterday also
<thorwil> then i tried a combination of crop and extent, but the alpha channel gets messed up in a way that eog and gimp are of different opinion how to display the result
<thorwil> the solution is to use -roll
<knome> wow :)
<knome> talented ;)
<thorwil> for f in renderings/*.png; do convert $f -roll +0-31 composited_bottom/${f##*/}; done
<thorwil> for f in composited_bottom/*.png; do composite ring_foot.png $f composited_bottom/${f##*/}; done
<thorwil> took me so long to figure out, i could have done in manually several times by now ;)
<knome> yeah.
 * thorwil dreams up a gui for all the stuff imagemagick offers
<knome> yeah.
<knome> agreed on that
<zniavre> hello what do you think of this panel mockup ? quite nice no ? http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/GFV+-+Gnome+Future+Vision?content=100613
<thorwil> how would that look with a maximized window?
<zniavre> did not hink about that right ...
<zniavre> think*
<BHSPitLappy> zniavre, wow, that background is horrid
<BHSPitLappy> it's like, grandma's carpet
<zniavre> it's not my mockup and i was focused on panel in fact
<zniavre> :-[
<BHSPitLappy> thorwil, obviously, maximized windows would use an alternate (arched upward) window decoration :P
<thorwil> because we all have too much space on our screens
<thorwil> dinner, bbl
<zniavre> bon appetit
 * _MMA_ pokes his head in.
<BHSPitLappy> _MMA_, hey, watch where you're sticking that!
<raozuzu> hi all!
<knome> what is the correct selector to theme menu separator item on gtkrc?
<zniavre> class "GtkSeparator" 	?
<knome> ok
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-08
<persia> kwwii: Is there a procedure to request certain letters get finished sooner for the font?  The UbuntuStudio login screen still uses the old font.
<troy_s> persia: I'd suspect that Maag will release a full set.
<troy_s> persia: It would depend on the brief, but I doubt that they are waiting with baited breath from Canonical. ;)
<persia> troy_s: From the announcement I've seen, a set good Europe and surrounding environs is planned.  I just wanted to try to get a couple letters in the next few days :)
<troy_s> persia: Use prokyon
<persia> Go tell ScottL :)
 * persia isn't actually doing the stuff, but just trying to get procedure to provide appropriate direction
<thorwil> kwwii: morning! Iain is a fan of green and sepia?
<kwwii> thorwil: hehe, oh yeah!
<vish> #C6B9A6 , looks really nice color on ambience :)
<kwwii> dashua: working on merging your changes
<kwwii> dashua: let me know when you'll be around to discuss your changes ;)
<knome> kwwii, hey kwwii
<knome> hmm.
<kwwii> hi
<knome> kwwii, iain told me to contact you when i need a new favicon for xubuntu. ;]
<kwwii> lol, nice
<knome> i still actually haven't got the uds jaunty highres group photo.
<knome> :P
 * knome hides
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> and I'm oging crazy trying to get things in for the deadline tonight
<knome> heh, no hurry with my thing.
<kwwii> knome: I honestly don't know what state the xubuntu identity is currently
<knome> i'll have plenty of time to bug on later this week ^____^
<kwwii> knome: we'd have to discuss it a but further
<knome> kwwii, i'm working with the new website layout, we're in the midst of logo change
<kwwii> knome: ok, if we can pin that down we can take care of it
<knome> kwwii, we're trying to integrate something in the style of the new branding into xubuntu as well, but trying to have both the mouse and the COF is hard, especially in small sizes
<knome> kwwii, just ping me anytime on Wed-Fri when you have time to discuss. i'm probably available.
<kwwii> knome: cool, will do
<Daviey> knome: I wonder if you could put the rat inside the logo, as if it was a hamster wheel?
<knome> Daviey, hrr, it's a MOUSE :)
<Daviey> nah, RAT :-)
<knome> Daviey, well, we have that kind of already. but it's too complex.
<kwwii> I always thought it was a rat
<kwwii> a friendly looking rat
<kwwii> :p
<knome> Daviey, kwwii: we have a few ideas/drafts, but we are not that sure they'd work.
<knome> and they haven't got that good response from our dev community either
<islington> what about just the mouse face in the xubuntu colors?
<knome> somebody would have to come up with a mouse face that 1) gets the dev community approval 2) works in small sizes
<kwwii> knome: well, developerss are usually better at developing than design; and designers are better at design than development
<kwwii> funny how that works
<knome> heh
<knome> funny
<knome> but i'm pretty bad in imitating anything real
<knome> i'm pretty good with abstract things, i thnk
<islington> knome: k did the svg just cleaning in gimp now
<knome> islington, okay.
<islington> my attempt: http://i.imgur.com/5TIhH.png
<islington> that eye might be too blurry though
<knome> hmm
<knome> the mouth(?) is weird
<islington> those are whiskers, I think: http://imgur.com/XXgl1.png
<knome> whiskey?
<knome> ;)
<islington> lol
<islington> hold on splitting them up
 * vish remembers knome isnt that good at remembering stuff either ;)  [Xubuntu Karmic wallpaper source still not available.. ]
<knome> vish, it isn't? wow.
<knome> vish, what's your email?
<vish> oh , not in the bus again ? ;p
<knome> not this time.
<knome> drinking latte.
<knome> (home)
<vish> knome: email >pm
<knome> okay
<islington> http://i.imgur.com/kjheX.png
<knome> can you paste the svg somewhere? i'll add that to our alternatives list
<vish> 5
<vish> 4
<vish> 3
<vish> 2
<knome> vish, yup
<vish> 1
<knome> working on it
<knome> ;)
<vish> yay ;]
<vish> damn didnt get to complete my countdown timer :(
<islington> knome:  the svg is really bad, at 16, but as you wish where can I up it?
<knome> islington, you can send it to open@knome.fi
<islington> k
<knome> islington, you can also include the png :)
<knome> vish, sent
<vish> knome: ty :)
<knome> for the rest of you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Karmic (click the wallpaper image)
<islington> knome: embedded png in svg
<islington> sent
<knome> islington, thanks!
<islington> snap test time bbl
<thorwil> knome: you should really forget about having both mouse and the CoF
<knome> thorwil, i'm not *exhaustively* try to incorporate them both
<dashua> kwwii, ping
<kwwii> dashua: I'm in the middle of cooking dinner, will you be online later?
<kwwii> dashua: otherwise I'll send an email ;)
<kwwii> dashua: check out lp:~kwwii/+junk/light-themes-refresh
<kwwii> dashua: that is your update, updated by me ;)
<dashua> Ok cool.
<dashua> Did you add those last focus_color changes?
<dashua> I think you will like them.
<zniavre> dashua,  can i ask what is this option for ?   :o)
<zniavre> im sure i will like it too
<dashua> GTK apps hide the line under F E V etc. until you hit ALT
<dashua> kwwii, Nice man
<zniavre> hmmm what is FEV ?please
<dashua> File Edit View
<zniavre> ok
<dashua> There is a line underneath by default
<dashua> This patch hides it until you hit ALT
<dashua> kwwii, Nice. You kept the scrollbars :)
<kwwii> dashua: yes, but I changed things a little bit
<dashua> I like it
<vish> iainfarrell: hi.. what does "gloam" stand for?
<vish> the tag for the bug..
<kwwii> iainfarrell: hey, you wanted something?
<iainfarrell> hey vish and kwwii
<dashua> kwwii, I would grab those focus_color changes.  I think that is what you were looking for.
<iainfarrell> gloam is a word :)
<kwwii> dashua: I worked on the buttons a bit too, but I'm not sure if I like them
<dashua> Looks great :)
<iainfarrell> and kwwii was looking for you earlier but not urgent
<iainfarrell> how you doing?
<vish> iainfarrell: like twilight? ok.. wondering that it meant for a bug ;)
<kwwii> dashua: I'm hoping to use the theme (in that link) as-is ;)
<kwwii> iainfarrell: doing well, about to push a theme update
<iainfarrell> ohh another .deb?
<kwwii> iainfarrell: nope, since I got no response I am just going to put it in lucid
<kwwii> :)
<dashua> kwwii, Do you want consistent theme focus on all buttons, tabs, scale, etc.?
<iainfarrell> I see
<dashua> The orange focus?
<iainfarrell> one question I had was around Thunderbird
<iainfarrell> and the scrolling lozenge
<iainfarrell> also noticed something today when installing the .deb you sent over
<iainfarrell> massive orange sausage on the bottom :)
<iainfarrell> anything we can do about that?
<iainfarrell> seems a bit out of place
 * thorwil just froze inkscape on ungrouping 2304 objects
<dashua> iainfarrell, Can you post a screenshot please?
<kwwii> iainfarrell: ouch, haven't tested it with tb yet
<iainfarrell> kwwii: it's the same bug as we talked about the other week
<iainfarrell> and dashua not easily is the answer :)
<iainfarrell> let me try
<vish> the scroolbar pixmap could be a bit thinner.. seems too heavy on the windows ;)
<vish> scroll*
<kwwii> vish: the current code is not using the pixmaps anymore
<vish> ah , ok
<iainfarrell> kwwii: will send a screenshot
<iainfarrell> I need to run
<iainfarrell> need to get through mail
<kwwii> iainfarrell: cool, have fun
<dashua> Probably the progressbar.
<dashua> iainfarrell, See ya :)
<dashua> kwwii, Can you test those last revisons for focus_color and see if that is ok?
<kwwii> dashua: you mean from your branch?
<dashua> Yes
<kwwii> dashua: so this is a change which is not in the stuff I put in my branch?
<dashua> And if you want the gtk-auto-mnemonics = 1?
<kwwii> yes, I added that to my stuff as well
<dashua> You just changed the GtkRange::trough-under-steppers = 0?
<kwwii> dashua: yes, as well
<kwwii> I played with a lot of other small changes but wasn't happy with them
<kwwii> dashua: so you mean the keyboard focus?
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> Looks better with all orange
<kwwii> I think the design calls for all focus to be orange ;)
<islington> so I am working on porting the token icons into an icon theme. I am reminded of the definition for tedious
<dashua> On the tabs, comoboxentry
<dashua> Ok good
<dashua> The changes are pushed in my branch then. :)
<dashua> Rev. 46 was the last
<kwwii> ok, I'll get a fresh copy
<dashua> No other major changes from yours other than the GtkRange::trough-under-steppers = 0 and I add prelight_shade to murrine options.
<kwwii> ok, cool
<dashua> The added focus_color really looks great.
<kwwii> building it now
<kwwii> dashua: I like it, but I think it needs to be more solidly orange
<kwwii> at least now it matches the others
<dashua> Ok, It's the same color as scale, progressbar, radiochecks.
<kwwii> yeah but the engine makes the inside much lighter, or?
<kwwii> but I do like it all consistent at least ;)
<dashua> Yeah, not sure if I can control that.
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> this is an improvement in any case
<dashua> Yep, I think so. :)
<kwwii> ok, I think I will get this version uploaded
<dashua> Should be solid now. I spent all weekend bug fixing /tweaking.
<kwwii> no doubt...you did some amazing work
<dashua> Nice
<dashua> Thx.
<kwwii> seb asked me first thing this morning about it and who you are ;)
<kwwii> we'll make you famous yet ;P
<dashua> w00t
<islington> screenshot?
<kwwii> islington: lp:~kwwii/+junk/light-themes-refresh is the current almost uploaded changes (99.9% from dashua)
<islington> not running gnome :( kw
<kwwii> ;)
<zniavre> ho understand what is focus_color thank you
<zniavre> it works with scales it's nice to don't hav focus color around
<zniavre> but not with radio/check buttons
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> zniavre: focus_color sets the keyboard focus color for many widgets
<zniavre> yes i tried it and use it now for some widget
<dashua> kwwii, I was just checking out your branch and it did not pull in all the focus changes.  Prelight_shades were not added also.
<dashua> Have border_shades for comboboxentry will keep the focus there grey.
<kwwii> dashua: argh, can you send a diff?
<kwwii> ahh, right
<kwwii> I'll look into it tomorrow
<dashua> I guess you could my branch if those were the only changes.
<kwwii> or maybe later
<kwwii> yeah
<dashua> I'll add the understeppers to mine if that is the only change
<dashua> Keep it in sync
<dashua> 0
<kwwii> ;)
<dashua> I added them.  Anything different just let me know?
<kwwii> I'll probably have to make the buttons darker again
<kwwii> and strengthen the lines around it
<kwwii> s/it/them
<dashua> Ok np
<kwwii> dashua: btw, thanks for the excellent help
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-09
<dashua> kwwii, Np :)
<vish> kwwii: have you seen this > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532224/comments/9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 532224 in light-themes "[ambiance, radiance] no rounding when window has no maximise icon" [Low,Confirmed]
<vish> it would probably solve the problem of the buttons being cut when displayed alone
<thorwil> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/another-design-hub-mockup/
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6943/capturevs.png > do you think it's possible to make notebook as in this shot the left bottom mockups ?
<zniavre> if i add contrast to notebook all tabs are included, i would want to create border only for the tab in uses
<kwwii> vish: yeah, I know about it
<thorwil> vish: congratulations!
<knome> iainfarrell, hey, just fyi, i will be more or less available whole day tomorrow, most of the day on Thu and whole day on Fri, if/when you need to contact me :)
<vish> thorwil: hmm? what did i do?
<thorwil> vish: just saw the membership board report. so a bit bleated, i guess :)
<vish> thorwil: ah , ty :)
<vish> thorwil: which ML is that?
<thorwil> vish: *shrug*. already deleted
<vish> thorwil: hehe  , thats why i mentioned bck when you got membership , we got memberships back-to-back :)
<Equiet> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/another-design-hub-mockup/ :(
<Equiet> Only "Design Hub" is similar... But it looks like it's not from my proposal.
<thorwil> Equiet: you still didn't talk with mizmo, except leaving a comment on her blog?
<Equiet> No, I don't think it's necessary. Or is it...?
<thorwil> Equiet: it's a good thing to do, because either it becomes clear you are or will be wasting your time, or you can actually start to collaborate instead of running alongside
<thorwil> Equiet: you could of course also just pester iainfarrell and kwwii about a design hub with or for ubuntu ;)
<Equiet> :)
<iainfarrell> hey guys, are you referring to Mairin's hub concept?
<iainfarrell> I've only been partially following it :)
<thorwil> yes
<iainfarrell> looks like a nice idea for a system but I'm not sure when we'll find the time to implement something like that
<iainfarrell> I should read up a little more on it
<thorwil> though what she has there is shaped by the fedora approach, no 1:1 fit
<iainfarrell> yeah
<iainfarrell> would need to review the process
<thorwil> iainfarrell: just hire me for the design to not further tax your team ;)
<iainfarrell> heh! It's not up to me, sadly!
<Equiet> Last days, I haven't got much free time... I'm worried I wouldn't find so much time it deserves.
<l3on> dashua: Hi.. are you there ?
<kwwii> dashua: the latest theme updates have been uploaded to lucid :)
<l3on> dashua: I saw your branch for new themes... I have some idea, if you're around I would like to show you.
<zniavre_> yeah no more pixmaps \o/
<l3on> someone of you could test this patch and give me feedback?
<l3on> http://paste.ubuntu.com/391934/
<l3on> -> This is the preview: http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5849/schermataw.png
<vish> hmm ..
<vish> oops!
<dashua> kwwii, Awesome.  Looks great :)
<zniavre_> dashua,  you made the new ambiance theme ?
<dashua> zniavre_, No.  Just tweaked and bug fixed.
<zniavre_> you made this theme without pixmap ?
<zniavre_> so
<dashua> Yes
<zniavre_> it's very nice
<zniavre_> it looks even better
<dashua> zniavre_, Oh thx.  Yeah.  I thought it was a nice improvement
<dashua> :)
<zniavre_> i do not like pixmap theme (at least cause i do not know how to do them)
<dashua> Same here.  As of last year, I would have recommended it for customization but the new improvements to murrine make a lot of things possible
<zniavre_> that s true
<dashua> Brb, I have to uninstall this nVidia driver.  Got the fan speed bug.  Have to revert to an older driver.
<zniavre_> :o(
<zniavre_> save your hardware
<dashua> Yeah
<dashua> Display locked and temp was over 83 degrees
<dashua> =/
<dashua> Maybe my Dell XPS will break and I'll get a new Mac.
<zniavre_> :o)
<zniavre_> be carefull i heard they put buttons to the left
<dashua> Back on 195.30, install/uninstall a display driver that fast on Windows ;)
<zniavre_> can you see plymouth thing?
<dashua> Nah
<dashua> Just a blue progressbar
<dashua> I can on my Dell Mini
<dashua> Intel
<zniavre_> same here with my daughter s laptop
<dashua> I think I may get a laptop with Intel next.
<zniavre_> that is sad for me i can't change my computer for that (but i want it)
<zniavre_> ho a quick question if you are using Lucid , with wich theme OOo is launched on your desktop ?
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-10
<nhaines> Greetings, all.  I thought I'd ask if anyone's seen SVGs for the new Ubuntu logo yet?
<Bahe> nhaines https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
<Bahe> nfunqu
<nhaines> Bahe: thank you, but that does not have what I was asking after.
<digital_1> Anyone know where I can leave some feedback regarding the new theming of Lucid?  I ***DO*** appreciate the hard work, but the new theme looks wrong- as in more than one step backward.
<digital_1> And... is the branding standard moving away from orange and to the purple?  I'm not talking about just the Ambiance theme- but also the standard for logos, etc.?
<nhaines> digital_1: yes, it's now orange and aubergine.
<nhaines> You'll see more orange for community-focused stuff, and more aubergine for enterprise-focused stuff.
<nhaines> You'll find more behind the rationale here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308
<nhaines> The theme is definitely growing on me since the big announcement.
<vish> digital_1: file a bug :)
<digital_1> vish thanks I'll do that.
<vish> digital_1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+filebug
<thorwil> arg, misplaced an </em> on a comment on Ivanka's blog
<knome> thorwil, congrats ;)
<lassegul> thorwil: under whitch name did u post under? cant see it?
<thorwil> lassegul: http://www.ivankamajic.com/?p=281#comment-30504
<lassegul> bah found it. IE6 page search sucks :)
<lassegul> its getting flooded pretty fast, but at least people dont flame.
<thorwil> new nugget of what is rather the opposite of wisdom: "Let the market decide. If your setup is superior, people will choose it and it will dominate."
<lassegul> well, in retrospect that statement makes sense.
<lassegul> but it doesnt fit very well to help make a decision
<thorwil> lassegul: the market opting for superior solutions brought us Windows dominance ...
<thorwil> lassegul: way too few people in that thread willing to look at it from more than one side
<lassegul> any way you look at it, you should fall down on putting all the buttons on the right side.
<lassegul> imo
<lassegul> brb
<highvoltage> hi, some of you might have seen my message to the list regarding https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/525295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 525295 in indicator-sound "Lucid indicator icons are not shown. Displays the "unknown icon" instead" [Medium,Triaged]
<highvoltage> is it better to work around that in the breathe-icon-theme or is the bug expected to be fixed before release?
<kwwii> highvoltage: I think it will be fixed before release
<kwwii> highvoltage: as that happens with any theme except the default
<kwwii> highvoltage: essentially it is a matter of having -panel icons in the theme for that purpose
<kwwii> anyone interested in the button discussion: http://www.ivankamajic.com/
<highvoltage> kwwii: ok thanks for the input
<highvoltage> I read that blog entry this morning, planning to do my own one :)
<kwwii> :)
<kwwii> dashua: this might interest you for Dust... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/522471
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 522471 in light-themes "indicator-sound volume slider background is wrong under certain gtk themes" [High,Confirmed]
<kwwii> and anyone else here who works on gtk themes
<zniavre> the fix you gave does not work here
<zniavre> "soundfix"
<zniavre> it's fg[ACTIVE]
<zniavre> not bg normal
<zniavre> ooops sorry im wrong
<zniavre> it's bg[NORMAL]    shame on me
<kwwii> zniavre: erm, no
<kwwii> ahhh, you found it
<kwwii> ;-)
<zniavre> kwwii,  sorry
<zniavre> :o(O:
<kwwii> ;)
<vish> sheesh! i got spooked by ivanka blog reply mailer :/
<vish> *'s
<vish> for a min i was wondering who is "Balkan Witch" , they i realized the mail id ;p
<thorwil> lol
<vish> s/they/then
<thorwil> vish: just don't walk into any forest ...
<vish> ;)
<kwwii> lol
<psyke83> kwwii: hey, there's still a small bug in the light themes - the ComboBox inactive text doesn't match anything else. Is it worth filing a bug or will I show you here?
<kwwii> psyke83: here is good neough
<kwwii> enough
<kwwii> psyke83: or, if you want file a bug or just email me
<psyke83> kwwii: never mind, I'll file a bug. A whole style section was removed from the themes that was necessary
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, please do
<kwwii> psyke83: and assign it me
<dashua> psyke83, I got it fixed
<zniavre> there is a way to isolate the inkscape toolbar as dust theme does for firefox and OOo ?
<kwwii> zniavre: I doubt it, I think it is a totally normal toolbar
<zniavre> yep im afraid about that
<zniavre> eXperience told me nothing interesting
<zniavre> that s sad when a consept theme struggle with gtk reality
<zniavre> concept*
<zniavre> i was almost ready to submit it to the wiki...
<kwwii> zniavre: well, you could always ask the inkscape crew
<kwwii> we employ a coupld of them ;)
<kwwii> couple
<kwwii> but unless it is it's own class or widget or such it won't work
<zniavre> ok but i think they do not change anything for me or my theme
<kwwii> no definitely not
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> the only reason they would/should change something is to make an improvement for all themes
<kwwii> ie to make inkscape itself better
<kwwii> why do you want to change just that toolbar?
<kwwii> you *can* change the look of all the toolbars
<zniavre> it does not look good and usable
<kwwii> only in inkscape?
<zniavre> yes
<kwwii> let me ask somebody, one second
<zniavre> http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1702/captureyk.png
<zniavre> sorry for the menubar but it does not influence the theme
<kwwii> so you want the lower toolbar to be lighter or such, right?
<zniavre> no all he toolbar lighter
<zniavre> the*
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> well, I was suggested this: http://chipx86.github.com/gtkparasite/
<kwwii> which I have never used myself
<kwwii> but I will look into it
<zniavre> http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2521/capture3q.png  look this screenshot > same theme but exception for firefox/openoffice
<zniavre> inkscape looks not good at all
<kwwii> hrm, very freaky
<kwwii> I assumed that if you style the toolbars it would be global
<kwwii> seems strange
<kwwii> ahh, you are special casing FF and OOo
<zniavre> yes following what dust theme can do
<kwwii> hrm, I am sure you can do it, if you know the right widget name
<zniavre> i tried eXperience but i did not find it
<kwwii> hrm
<zniavre> it s not easy to use all this output
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> indeed
<kwwii> gtk themeing is hard
<kwwii> there is little or no documentation
<zniavre> and i m not so smart  :o)  too old to learn quickly
<kwwii> zniavre: lol, if you are old, I wonder what that makes me
<zniavre> :o)
<zniavre> grrr gtkparasite does not work at the moment
<zniavre> ho there is a package in synaptic
<zniavre> let me make clean all that stuff
<kwwii> :-)
<zniavre> and it works ...
<andreasn> there is a parasite deb?
<zniavre> yep
<andreasn> url?
<zniavre> http://packages.debian.org/fr/sid/gtkparasite it gives me idea to try apt-get install gtkparTABTAB and it works
<andreasn> ah, cool. I had no idea it was in universe
<andreasn> I've been looking around for a ppa all this time :)
<zniavre> :o) always check synaptic before ./autogen.sh
<andreasn> hm, how do I use it?
<andreasn> aha
<andreasn> GTK_MODULES=gtkparasite appname
<zniavre> yes
<zniavre> use it it not so complicated ...
<zniavre> the thing is to understand all the datas it gives
<zniavre> in fact im stuck now
<zniavre> :o)
<zniavre> i feel its good application (i should learn some pygtk functions before ...)
<kwwii> zniavre: I will look into it tomorrow
<kwwii> also, I think I am going to start a wiki page about the murrine engine
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> talking to Andrea, the maintainer, it would be a great help
<zniavre> he's not often present even in #murrine
<zniavre> present > online
<kwwii> but he talks to me :)
<kwwii> on facebook of all places
<knome> lol
<zniavre> :o)
<zniavre> never use facebook ...
<knome> i'm not registered to facebook
<zniavre> hav a good night
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-11
<kwwii> zniavre, dashua, psyke83: I think we should start a wiki page with info on themeing using murrine
<kwwii> sound good?
<kwwii> nobody else has info on it
<kwwii> Cimi thinks it is a good idea, he just doesn't have the time to do it
<dashua> Yeah, sounds good
<dashua> Ah you removed the purple tooltips?
<kwwii> dashua: nope, I haven't changed a thing so far
<kwwii> ask me tomorrow
<kwwii> ;-)
<dashua> Ah :)
 * dashua is digging aubergine
<psyke83> kwwii: I assume you're leaving in a min, but anyway, the wiki page is a good idea
<kwwii> hey
<kwwii> yeah, indeed
<kwwii> dashua: it's killer, so many possibilities
<dashua> kwwii, Absolutely
<kwwii> boah, 2am...time for bed
<psyke83> nite nite
<dashua> Nite mate
<dashua> psyke83, You mind testing my branch and making sure the text issue you were reporting was fixed.
<dashua> When you get a chance.
<psyke83> dashua: will do
<dashua> A lot of the Dust code was in Radiance and it really wasn't needed
<dashua> thx
<kwwii> dashua: indeed
<psyke83> the lazy feckers ;)
<kwwii> I tried to remove a bunch but was somewhat afraid of the consequences
<kwwii> lol
<dashua> Hehe
<kwwii> oh well, night all
<psyke83> nite
<dashua> I cleaned it up, but when the masses get it, there are sure to be issues =/
<dashua> Nite
<psyke83> the theme I was working on for fun, I based on Human simply because I wasn't familiar with all the Radience/Ambience/Dust stuff
<kwwii> hehe, naturally my desire to hide the fact that I started with Dust is a mojor problem :P
<kwwii> I just like to take the piss out of people
<dashua> Hehe
 * kwwii listens to Hawkwind Silver Machine and goes to bed
<dashua> psyke83, Looks good,  A good transition from Human to the new themes
<dashua> I like the use of purple
<dashua> kwwii, \m/
<psyke83> dashua: thanks... perhaps the orange needs toning down (but I was deliberately going for a non-monochromatic look)
<dashua> Yeah, it's glaring at first, but soothing after some use
 * dashua listens to Rogue Wave
<psyke83> dashua: light-themes-refresh contains the text fix?
<dashua> It should.
<dashua> Unless I missed it.
<psyke83> maybe we were talking about a different issue, it's not fixed
<psyke83> just a second and I'll give you the line (I think it's easier if you just fix in your branch rather than I create one ;))
<dashua> ok
<psyke83> ok, you partially fixed it
<dashua> :)
<psyke83> all you need to do now is to make sure that in the "default" style section, the text[insenstive[ and fg[insensitive] are equal
<dashua> Ok thx
<psyke83> if not, the inactive text of ComboBox will look different to every other widget
<psyke83> (see twf)
<dashua> Gotcha. On Radiance, seems ok
<psyke83> ok... I didn't check radiance ;)
<dashua> Ah Ambiance
<dashua> Right
<psyke83> the theme still has some bugs with text, however
<psyke83> if you click on the "Customize theme" button in Appearances and change the fg text for text boxes to something else, it's not consistent in the theme
<psyke83> one sec
<dashua> I gotta roll psyke83, just leave anything you find or point me to your fixes.
<dashua> Thx again
<psyke83> yeah I'm too tired to find it now, will do tomorrow :)
<psyke83> see ya
<vish> kwwii: we need this update for the accelerators patch > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588554#c54
<ubottu> Gnome bug 588554 in menu "only show the accelerator when pressing alt" [Enhancement,Reopened]
<vish> kwwii: not sure who to point it to.. you mentioned this earlier, currently you are the best person i know ;)
<zniavre> good morning
<l3on> kwwii: are you there ?
<kwwii> l3on: hey
<l3on> kwwii: Hi.. I sent you a email yesterday... Have you received it ?
<l3on> It was about light-themes
<kwwii> I don't think so, let me check
<kwwii> hrm, I think it got lost in my spam filter
<kwwii> I don't have it
<l3on> mmm ... damin:
<kwwii> l3on: sorry
<l3on> To: yournick@ubuntu.com
<kwwii> right
<l3on> Subject: Ambiance theme refactored
<kwwii> nope, it is not in my inbox
<kwwii> ;(
<kwwii> try sending it to myNick @sinecera dot de
<l3on> mmm.. damn, I can't send mail :( Problem is on my way.. Well.. I'll resend you mail with gmail. Just a second :)
<kwwii> great, thanks
<kwwii> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ambiance-theme-for-google-chromechromium.html
<kwwii> looks nice!
<l3on> kwwii: sent
<kwwii> hrm, still haven't got it
<artnay> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/16-things-that-could-be-improved-in.html many good points gathered onto one page
<kwwii> artnay: themeing wise the only good info I find there is the bub about radiance making the indicators too spaced out
<kwwii> which I will fix today
<artnay> kwwii: great, that has actually bugged me on my 1024x768 virtual machine
<thorwil> Benjamin doesn't understand Fitt's law
<lassegul> nice article
<artnay> still many (all?) of those would count as paper cuts
<lassegul> whats the thoughts behind the default font size? as far as i can tell, it really does look much slicker at 8px
<lassegul> or even 9px. looks sharper
<kwwii> hey lassegul
<kwwii> lassegul: I think that is very dependent on which font is used and the screen it is used on
<lassegul> hi kwwii whats up. yeah, you might be right, but im on windows xp now and comparing it to ubuntu it looks huge!
<lassegul> ubuntu that is
<zniavre> proportion of rhythmbox applet is depend what you are listening ,check this >http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5152/capturemr.png
<kwwii> well, until now ther ehas also not been a decent font for linux
<lassegul> kwwii: well, make the best of what you have? ;)
<artnay> lassegul: I prefer ttf-droid/undotum as 9px
<lassegul> zniavre: that didnt look good at all
<zniavre> :o)
<lassegul> yeah droid is nice
<lassegul> we should steal it!
<lassegul> muhahaha
<kwwii> kik
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> lassegul: or make something new ;-)
<kwwii> droid was designed for vertical small screens
<kwwii> so it is very condensed and high
<lassegul> but oh so clear and crisp, its like sans, just sexed up a lot
<lassegul> ^^
<artnay> I actually sent some feedback to maag after reading mark's blogging. and they actually fixed their misspelling tyeface on their page ;)
<artnay> lassegul: droid-sans?
<lassegul> that volume indicator bug has already been fixed if im seeing this correctly
<lassegul> artnay: dejavu sry
<artnay> kwwii: does the new font already an official name? or will the name be announced later on?
<kwwii> artnay: it will be announced later, no name so far
<artnay> lassegul: have you read http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/6-desktop-fonts-to-try-in-ubuntu.html ?
<lassegul> artnay: yeah, good link. im currently using droid sans, probably at 9px because of my huge screen.
<lassegul> but the new desktop font wont be ready til 10.04 right?
<kwwii> I don't think so
<artnay> lassegul: I'm tied between undotum and droind-sans, using 1920x1080 and (on virtual machine) 1024x768. both work well as 9px
<lassegul> i like the default nokia font. i wish they would release it
 * kwwii is not feeling well, going to lay down for a bit
<lassegul> bring the vodka, ill fixx u right up
<kwwii> :P
<lassegul> wow, that sounded wrong. *it'll not I'll
<vish> meh , that article is just a bug list...
<vish> the only actual problem is probably the last one about the memenu not being obvious enough
<zniavre> i never had rhythmbox searching plugins i do not understand this post
<vish> zniavre: it is just a post of a misinformed regular ubuntu user , as are most of OMG's blogs ;p
<vish> not to be taken seriously , but to be treated as "Ubuntu Tabloid"
<zniavre> i saw into gtk theme in gnome-look somebody adding > GtkToolbar	::window-dragging	= 1 < this is not working at all , it will in the futur ?
<vish> zniavre: 	GtkMenuBar::window-dragging = 1
<vish> only the menubar is supposed to work , never heard the toolbar  allowing dragging
<lassegul> vish: isnt that a little arrogant? most of these issues are serious enough. i would never let software leave my table at work with these kinds of issues.
<zniavre> menubar i knew it since few days i was wondering for the toolbar
<lassegul> (i do QA)
<vish> lassegul: i didnt say it is not a problem ;)
<zniavre> :o)
<lassegul> k :)
<vish> lassegul: the mp3 problem is due to copyrights[or whatever]  , it cant be included in default Ubuntu OS and be distributed as free , and not sure how he is getting the bug even after installing gstreamer plugins[good/bad/ugly]
<vish> the button position is highly debatable , it is mostly user prefs and what the user is used to.. [I dont use it] but claiming it as a design bug and quoting poll on  blog is just silly
<vish> lassegul: preferences menu is a known issue and it _wont_ be fixed for lucid just because it cant ;) [yet] but there are plans to fix it for gnome3
<vish> lassegul: padding/alignment/memenu pic and the rest are just bugs in dev version, which are already being worked on .. his comments in reply to jono are highly rude/arrogant.. which is what makes it more difficult to understand the reason for the post
<lassegul> vish: jono? didnt catch that.
<vish> lassegul: read the comments section , there is a huge dialogue going on there ;)
<lassegul> i dont think you can call the button positioning highly debateable anymore though :P
<lassegul> its kinda one sided
<vish> lassegul: i dont use it , it is just old prefs[people wont like to change for now reason] , but i still dont understand why it was changed , hence highly debatable , there _might_ be a reason
<vish> s/now/no
<lassegul> vish: brb.
<artnay> only rational reason I can come up with is the position of notify-osd
<lassegul> artnay: well, i guess u can call uniqueness a positive thing too.
<lassegul> vish: i dont get why the design team dont share their reasoning. ivanka's blog post is like an introduction to the reason for the change, but it stops prematurely.
<lassegul> guys, have u tested this? its awesome: http://mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/harmony/
<thorwil> vish: i wouldn't call that rude. however, the believe in common sense and the value of polls is sad.
<vish> thorwil: well , it is basically an unnecessary argument.. pointless and doesnt help in any way
<vish> mrdoob , havent seen him in a long while ;)
<lassegul> vish: it makes you feel like quite the drawing artist
<lassegul> even without a stylys
<lassegul> *us
<vish> yeah , pretty neat..
<thorwil> iainfarrell: http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/ubuntus_circle_of_friends_gets_smaller.php
<iainfarrell> hey thorwil
<iainfarrell> yeah, we saw that
<thorwil> good :)
<thorwil> iainfarrell: btw, still waiting for a an SVG file of the logo(-type)
<iainfarrell> Yes, I know - I'm waiting for it too ;)
<iainfarrell> we're not final but as soon as we are I'll let you know
<vish> hehe , 0.65% who use the site use UbuntuOS ;p
<lassegul> *LINUX
<lassegul> oops, caps
<vish> ah , so Ubuntu is even smaller.. but the most interesting is the ratio of designers who use Mac :)
<thorwil> http://typophile.com/node/68016
<thorwil> http://www.dutchtypelibrary.nl/Prokyon_rdrct.html
<vish> thorwil: probably the original inspiration to both ?  >  http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/designer/hans_reichel/
<vish> from the comments ^
<vish> huh , more > http://www.flickr.com/photos/fountaineer/278176955/in/set-72157594342848887/
<kwwii> the guy from dalton maag who is working on this responded to that thread
<kwwii> it is not a copy of anything
<kwwii> dalton maag is one of the top font companies in the world
<vish> kwwii: yeah saw that too , hehe , "now that the secret is out"
<vish> ;p
<kwwii> vish: well, that info was also in the announcement but I don't think anyone read that far down
<vish> kwwii: yeah , people seem to only have focused on the pretty pictures ;)
<kwwii> :P
<vish> meh , how many truly unique fonts can one really make... at some point there is bound to be a near similarity unless we change the letters entirely ;p
<artnay> kwwii: was it? I saw mention of maag only at mark's blog entry
<kwwii> artnay: well, it was somewhere
<kwwii> :-)
<thorwil> not taking any sides, just found that interesting
 * thorwil gets coffee
<zniavre> kwwii,  what is the fix for bug #527267 please ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 527267 in light-themes "Application Indicators too wide" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/527267
<kwwii> zniavre: the radiance theme had an xthickness value set to 4
<vish> kwwii: in ambience , when a drop-down menu or a combo menu is opened , the menu is dark , while the box was actually light , seems kinda odd doesnt it?
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> vish: yeah, I have thought about that a lot
<vish> but from the menubar , it seems to work well , as the menu is also dark
<kwwii> vish: the way things are now is the intended design
<kwwii> but I have thought about changing it
<kwwii> luckily I am sooo busy fixing bugs that I never get around to testing itou
<kwwii> it out
<kwwii>  :-)
<vish> would be nice if that was changed ;p
 * vish files bug , probably the only way to get kwwii's attention ;)
<kwwii> vish: well, there is one thing to say about consistency - having all menus the same color is probably better
<kwwii> vish: lol, along with the 75 other bugs
<kwwii> vish: make sure that there is not one open already please
<kwwii> there are a *lot* of duplicates
<vish> sure..
<kwwii> I think I will end up spending an entire day finding duplicates
<kwwii> in fact, if anyone wants to help, please go through the bugs are mark duplicates
<kwwii> ;-)
<vish> kwwii: yeah,  i thinking of doing them
<vish> too many dups :/
<kwwii> it's crazy
<vish> kwwii: serves you right!  you had to go and make a new theme ;p
<zniavre> kwwii,  thank you
<kwwii> vish: lol, I can only blame myself
<kwwii> well, myself and the rest of the design team
<kwwii> so does anyone want to help writing up a wiki page describing themeing with murrine?
<vish> kwwii: wouldnt a link to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes , be sufficient?
<kwwii> vish: no, that doesn't explain all the bits unique to murrine
<kwwii> well, my lucid computer just died during a dist-upgrade
<kwwii> guess I can spend the rest of today fixing it!
<kwwii> speak of the devil
<kwwii> ;-)
<vish> ;)
<Cimi> oh, so you were speaking about me :P
<kwwii> 16:45 < kwwii> so does anyone want to help writing up a wiki page describing  themeing with murrine?
<kwwii> not you directly, but your work ;-)
<Cimi> ahaha :P
<kwwii> unfortunately my computer just stopped working during an upgrade, going to have to fix that first
<Lcawte> Hi Artwork People
<kwwii> hi Lcawte
<Lcawte> hi
 * kwwii owes dashua a beer or 3 :-)
<trijntje> Hi all, are you guy's responsible for the network-manager icon?
<kwwii> that would be me, I guess
<troy_s> thorwil: How are you doing?
<trijntje> kwwii: well, my problem is this: The documentation mentions this icon, but it seems to keep changing. First several times for Karmic, so that the correct description didnt make it into the release
<trijntje> now for Lucid I noticed today it has changed again, and I was wondering whether it will be changing again any time soon
<kwwii> trijntje: I assume you mean the ones in the panel, right?
<trijntje> kwwii: yes, the applet, sorry
<kwwii> erm, it should not have changed today...it changed more than a week ago
<kwwii> it should be a series of rounded waves going up
<kwwii> that design will not change anymore
<kwwii> the wired icons might though
<trijntje> kwwii: I was talking about the wired icon in fact
<trijntje> is there anywhere I could monitor these changes or find out if any given icon is the final one?
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> one second, on the phone
<kwwii> ok, re
<kwwii> trijntje: well, watching the ubuntu-mono icon set would give you a good idea
<kwwii> trijntje: and asking me would be really quick ;-)
<kwwii> trijntje: I will know more about whether the design will change by midday european time tomorrow
<trijntje> kwwii: well, I dont want to come bother you every other day to ask if its the final version ;)
<trijntje> but ill be back tomorrow or in a few day's to ask again, thanks for your time
<kwwii> trijntje: sounds good...you could also send me an email and I can respond if there are changes
<kwwii> trijntje: I know we're changing things quite late in the cycle
<trijntje> kwwii: well, its still before the UI freeze ofcource, and I like the new look
<trijntje> so its not all bad ;)
<kwwii> hehe, cool
<vish> yay , took down one bug off kwwii's list ;)
<vish> kwwii: Bug #537374 was caused by the auto-memonics option
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 537374 in gtk+2.0 "Vertical menu scrolling[with keys] not working , when themes enable gtk-auto-mnemonics" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537374
<trijntje> FYI, its bug 440826
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440826 in ubuntu-docs "Network Manager LAN icon description doesnt match Karmic" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440826
<kwwii> trijntje: cool, I will subscribe myself
<trijntje> kwwii: ok cool, thats easier
<kwwii> vish: just responded to that
<trijntje> opensource is cool, I can just go and ask stuf and people will look into it
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> you can even push canonical employees around :/
<kwwii> vish: heya, I heard you saw the purple desktop icon Dan made yesterday
<kwwii> vish: we should put those in lucid
<vish> kwwii: k.. you want it done now?
<kwwii> vish: that would be great, unless you have any other changes you want to wait for
<vish> kwwii: ok. fixed a couple of other bugs too ... i'll upload to the packagers ppa?
<kwwii> vish: yes, please do!
<vish> s/ppa/branch
<kwwii> gothca
<kwwii> gotcha
<kwwii> oh, in case anyone hasn't seen it, I suggest testing ttps://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/elnmibmpefhmfgphdphdncoogpbfmlbp
 * vish lends kwwii a "h"
<vish> https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/elnmibmpefhmfgphdphdncoogpbfmlbp
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> dashua: hey, just looking into your changes now...do you ever sleep?
<dashua> Hehe, no.
<dashua> I can't stop.
<kwwii> lol
<dashua> Those fixes are in my branch from 0.1.5.8 already.  I;ll change the menuitem to 0
<dashua> Cleaned a lot of cruft and more fixes :)
<kwwii> thanks for cleaning it up, it was getting quite messy
<dashua> Np
<dashua> Looking pretty good now
<kwwii> dashua: the purple selection was turned down
<dashua> :(
<dashua> Ok
<kwwii> and the progress bars do need to be shiny
<dashua> I added them back or least I thought so
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> maybe I should get the latest from bzr
<kwwii> I branched a several hours ago
<kwwii> :p
<dashua> HA
<kwwii> I'm heading out now for dinner, when I get back I'll look into it some more
<dashua> Ok have fun
<vish> kwwii: pushed humanity update to packagers
<thorwil> troy_s: hi! demolished an old summer house
<troy_s> thorwil: Sounds like fun.
<thorwil> troy_s: nice way to let off some steam. but now my back muscles ache. almost all of them
<thorwil> troy_s: what have you been up to, lately?
<troy_s> thorwil: Trying to finish up three projects.
<troy_s> thorwil: Tad painful.
<troy_s> thorwil: You might want to tell B to shup.
<thorwil> troy_s: i'm terrible at managing parallel projects, so i usually end up pulling through one at a time
<troy_s> Well I can't. They are all gigs so they need to be finished.
<troy_s> thorwil: Just the nature of the beast unfortunately.
<thorwil> troy_s: i know what you mean, but i'd have to be diplomatic, as otherwise things just get more complicated
<troy_s> thorwil: LOL
<troy_s> thorwil: Well ... to be frank... putting "I did lots and lots of this stuff in highschool" just makes you look like a toolbag.
<troy_s> thorwil: Hate to be brutal on that, but ... ugh... not helping.
<thorwil> troy_s: see, you could tell him outright
<troy_s> LOL
<thorwil> troy_s: no keen on having a conflict where i have nothing to win, only something to lose
<troy_s> thorwil: Agree... which is why I figure you might be more diplomatic than I.
<troy_s> thorwil: There needs to be more _Why_ before we can get to _What_.
<thorwil> troy_s: vish should take care of that
<thorwil> troy_s: that would have the advantage that vish isn't me or you :>
<troy_s> thorwil: It is a point that is completely missed. I saw him relink to the Droid thing. It is clear that there is disagreement there (albeit through some sort of condescending tone, of which I'd step to that plate any day if he seriously wants to engage in a conversation)
<troy_s> thorwil: But the main problem is that it is _Why_ - a point entirely missed by him.
<troy_s> thorwil: We can all roll dice and toss out random crap, but we still don't have a why. With the whole phrasing of a goal (albeit missing the obvious _Who_) we can at least get _some_ clump of crap off the table.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's the _Why_. Bringhurst nails that - why choose a face? It's a valid question.
<thorwil> troy_s: are you preaching to the choir again?
<troy_s> thorwil: (And of course, in our case, we have glyph coverage as a nasty constraint - but that is likely something that a community should be very adept at fleshing out given the decision to roll in a given direction.)
<troy_s> thorwil: No, trying to get you to make it clear that he should be looking at why before he starts randomly tossing links out to disagree with.
<troy_s> thorwil: I am well aware as to where you sit on the matter. ;)
<thorwil> troy_s: you may have the best intentions and i may agree on everything that really matters, still i'm not your agent ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: LOL
<troy_s> thorwil: Sorry, I know that you are already working over there and have an ear.
<troy_s> thorwil: Jerk.
<troy_s> lol
<thorwil> what? 8-[]
<troy_s> Sorry... jerkface.
<troy_s> thorwil: Anything interesting been a happenin'?
<thorwil> troy_s: http://deamillion.com/ introduced herself on the mailing list
 * troy_s clicking.
<troy_s> thorwil: Hold on... Flash is inducing a seizure.
<troy_s> thorwil: Ugh. Ok... I'm sure there is work there somewhere. I'll be buggered if I can flail through that Flash mess though.
<troy_s> thorwil: Something doesn't computer.
<troy_s> thorwil: You can't get a BFa in two years for one.
<troy_s> thorwil: Any good chats happening on the list?
<thorwil> troy_s: no, it's rather depressing
<troy_s> thorwil: Well that stinks. Can you speak German?
<thorwil> troy_s: dude, that's my mother tongue
<troy_s> thorwil: Well I could have made the erroneous "YOU CAN SPEAK GERMAN RIGHT?" assumption... I erred on not doing that... let me find a link.
<troy_s> thorwil: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/distributionsvielfalt/
<troy_s> thorwil: I can't really read it except via translate
<thorwil> yes, you could have, but your are the careful and elaborate troy_s  ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: But it seems that there are some pretty damn good discussions going on regarding the diversity versus monolithic approach.
<troy_s> thorwil: Sort of refreshing to read (as I hobbled through it via awkward translate)
<troy_s> thorwil: A friend tipped me off to the discussion as it was relevant to the great 'Who' debate.
<troy_s> thorwil: I'm certain there is much nuance in the language that I miss though... such is the fate of a unilingular idiot.
<thorwil> wow, that svg is insane
<troy_s> thorwil: I _think_ that is the thread... should be about who for an audience and discussing diversity of distributions / appliances.
<troy_s> thorwil: Picks up page 2 or 3 methinks.
<thorwil> troy_s: yes, german is full of nuances, many of which are actually all about making fun of english -only speakers ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: I had a chat recently with a friend... on the nuance of "ideal" versus "idealism"
<troy_s> thorwil: Which is a very subtle one in terms of one being relatively 'positive' for a connotation versus the implicit negativity of "idealist" for example.
<troy_s> thorwil: He was pointing out that the rough German equivalents (and again - only his opinion of course) were more or less quite neutral.
<thorwil> troy_s: so far that thread is just being-able-to-chose-what-suits-you-best vs cost-of-fragmentation
<troy_s> thorwil: Yeah... it picks up.
<troy_s> thorwil: It evolves into the idea of tackling based on audience needs if I remember.
<thorwil> continues with the cost of having to choose vs just doubting that that effect is real
<troy_s> thorwil: I think Schwartz's thesis pops up there.
<thorwil> yes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMV4PIEIKY4
<thorwil> "why would someone faced with 40 kinds of ice cream buy a pizza instead"
<thorwil> http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/post/2391682/ brings up the potential to target many different audiences
<thorwil> and says that the Ubuntu approach of trying to be one for all would be not very clever
<thorwil> troy_s: someone arguing that a 3d artist will likely have other needs that a sound-engineer and why should they use the same distribution?
<troy_s> thorwil: I think that is a legit discussion.
<thorwil> troy_s: seen such arguments before. ignores the cost of rebooting for the poor people who have several interests ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: I think this likely boils down to constraints - something people don't think about much. As in - At which point does a design decision detract from the overarching direction / audience need? We could probably spot Cos' kernel tweaks for desktop use in opposition to what was already in main etc.
<troy_s> thorwil: I'd think that you could twiddle things one way or another, but you have to think that say - an appliance built for gaming outperforms an appliance built for word processing or sound editing etc.
<troy_s> thorwil: Can we more greatly satisfy an audience's need with a greater degree of precision?
<thorwil> troy_s: another one studied a bit of sociology and mentions that people need "marks" to get together and interact
<thorwil> that reminds me of people who will go so far as to fake religious beliefs to be able to participate in an attractive community
<troy_s> thorwil: It is interesting.
<troy_s> thorwil: I thought the discussion was pretty on point and didn't just do the knee jerk "ITS ABOUT EVERYONE!1!!!!! ZOMGYOUARE AN IDIOTOOTT!!222!!!"
<thorwil> troy_s: guess it's a big reason for the success of ubuntu that social aspects are handled consciously. other projects focus on technical matters first and a social group _might_ build up
<troy_s> thorwil: I think it is a social aspect of not treating everyone outside of the 733t as donkeys.
<troy_s> thorwil: That's not exactly rocket surgery though.
<thorwil> troy_s: kinda sucks that sometimes it does seem like everyone outside of certain circles is in fact a donkey :>
<troy_s> thorwil: That said, the core of the design problem here - I [NEED | DESIRE] Red, you [NEED | DESIRE] Blue. You cannot solve that no matter how hard you try or clever you think you are.
<thorwil> troy_s: surely the solution is Violet!
<troy_s> thorwil: (Grossly simplifying the matter, but the reality is that there are likely a number of facets that are that very RED / BLUE posit)
<troy_s> thorwil: Exactly. I could see the window decoration going there.
<troy_s> thorwil: And even if the _optimal_ practical solution is one way, is it tempered against the contextual solution (EG: Window decorations on left or right in light of the context of imitation?)
<thorwil> wow, a reply to the ubuntu-art list only took about 11 hours to get there
<troy_s> thorwil: Have you been following this? http://blog.cberger.net/2010/03/02/the-difficult-choice-of-removing-features/
<thorwil> troy_s: yes
<troy_s> thorwil: Good stuff.
<troy_s> thorwil: Hopefully they can execute. The dissent is obvious.
<thorwil> http://www.scodal.com/uploads2/irrelephant.jpg
<thorwil> really have to do something about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Header?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=banner.png
<zniavre> ho gnome-look is down
<troy_s> zniavre: Whoa there's a loss. ;)
<thorwil> good night!
<kwwii> zniavre: if gnome-look goes down and you really need something from it, let me know
<kwwii> the guy who runs all the -look sites is a friend ;-)
<kwwii> they all run on his server at home :P
<zniavre> ho no worries thank you
<zniavre> iasked something to a theme creator i wanted to see if he answered but it can wait tomorow
<zniavre> tomorow will be a great day for us we will buy a brand new old-school mobil-home
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> wow, cool!
<zniavre> http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/187396/1/j7ccar?h=0220c4
<zniavre> i can't wait ...
<kwwii> zniavre: that looks seriously cool
<kwwii> very nice
<kwwii> time for sleep
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-12
<zniavre> GtkWidget Â  Â  Â ::link-color Â  Â  Â  Â    = "#ff00ff" this option seems to does not work anymore right ?
<zniavre> http://lab.arc90.com/experiments/readability/
<zniavre> http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1442/capture1f.png  just modify the hyperlink color in gtkrc make firefox url menu more readable no?
<Cimi> kwwii, started the wiki?
<kwwii> Cimi: nope, no time yet
<kwwii> well, I did title a page but nothing else
<Equiet> Wow. "Hi Equiet, I really like your visual design. I hope you donât mind if we use some of your ideas. This is great, thank you so much!" - mairin
<thorwil> Equiet: saw that. nice. you should still seek direct contact ;)
<Equiet> thorwil: By an e-mail or this channel?
<thorwil> Equiet: email. this channel won't work. mizmo is on GIMPnet, #gnome-art and/or #gnome-design and probably other channels
 * thorwil -> lunch
<thorwil> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vi7TqTLw_Tw/S5kbB1L2VEI/AAAAAAAAAdc/ykOps-S7d5Y/s1600-h/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-lucid2.png
<thorwil> ^ what's up with the CoF in that shot?
<thorwil> taken from http://dylanmccall.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-stuff-for-ubiquity-slideshow.html
<knome> lol
<knome> hey thorwil ;)
<thorwil> hi knome
<trijntje> ping kwwii
<trijntje> any news on the nm-applet icon?
<l3on> kwwii: Following your suggestion in the reply mail, I merged my branch with the current gtkrc in dashua branch and apply the colour scheme without changing the style. I pushed up my branch at revision 56... If you take a quick look... :)
<l3on> *if you want to take a quick look ... ;)
<l3on> dashua: kwwii -> bug 538222
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 538222 in light-themes "Please modify Ambiance gtkrc in order to use gnome colors scheme" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/538222
<kwwii> erm, I don't think we will have it supporting the color stuff for lucid
<thorwil> good evening kwwii! how's things?
<vish> l3on: that bug is actually a dup ;)
<vish> l3on: you are mentioning about the metacity color being fixed, right?
<l3on> damn... I searched, but didn't find the dup one...
<l3on> vish: what do you mean? :)
<l3on> kwwii: why no support ?
<vish> l3on: you want the window border to change color depending on the bg color or selected color?
<l3on> vish: I worked on gtk :)
<l3on> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~l3on/+junk/light-themes/revision/56#Ambiance/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
<vish> l3on: oh , ok.. i'm just confused then ;)
<vish> there was another bug for the metacity color being hardcoded
<l3on> vish: well... I looked at metacity and I wanna also work on it in order to fix button when some of them is missing
<l3on> vish: in metacity Ambiance theme, all colors are hardcoded :)
<l3on> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~l3on/%2Bjunk/light-themes/annotate/56/Ambiance/metacity-1/metacity-theme-1.xml
<l3on> (don't all, but most of them do)
<kwwii> hi thorwil
<kwwii> busy day
<kwwii> tired of working
<kwwii> l3on: acheiving the best look is more important than making it flexible
<thorwil> what? linux is all about paralysis of having to choose. or something ...
<kwwii> I'd rather finish creating what I started out to make than to restrict myself and only create something half as good, but fleible
<kwwii> x
<l3on> kwwii: this time I didn't make changes at the style... I used gimp to get shade, and seems to works fine
<l3on> try it.. You'll see no changes in the style/colors :)
<kwwii> l3on: is there a link in that bug?
<kwwii> I'll look into it, probably tomorrow
<l3on> do you mean a link at my branch ?
<kwwii> l3on: well, either point me to your branch or include the link in the bug
<kwwii> as a comment
<kwwii> that way it doesn't get lost
<kwwii> heading out for a bit, bbl
<l3on> kwwii: done.
<dashua> l3on, The flexibility is currently there other than the orange and that has to be that way.
<dashua> I'll check it out.
<darkmatter> kwwii: I'd prefer seeing the current 'I can has colors' silliness replaced with a truly modernized pixmap engine of one form or another. you know, so we can actually make 'themes' instead of tweaking engine settings. ;)
<zniavre> :o)
<kwwii> darkmatter: I would like to pay a developer to make a theme engine to my order
<kwwii> ;-)
<darkmatter> ideed
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-13
<zniavre> wow the new software center is looking very bad i think
<zniavre> was not so good before but now it's worst
<darkmatter> w00! I broke gnome! \o/
<coz_> ok
<darkmatter> coz_: ever have one of those sleepy morning where you knew you should have cleared the cobwebs before upgrading packages? I just had one :D
<darkmatter> I killed gnome ;)
<coz_> darkmatter,  :)  yes sounds real familiar
<darkmatter> accidentally upgraded to the developmental version of pango. thankfully tty's actually work on this install
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> since everything gtk powered kinda depend on it I was all 'EEEK!"
<darkmatter> depends*
<darkmatter> meh. shoulda left it for later an had a good laugh at the missus expense. she'd go to log on and 'poof'... no gdm xD
<darkmatter> anyway, how is coz_doing this fine morning?
<darkmatter> coz_: is it just me or do you find http://jimmac.musichall.cz/images/blog/gnome-3-widgets-shaded.png a tad on the chubby side?
<coz_> darkmatter,  mm  the bars  and buttons do seems a bit "chubby" :)
<darkmatter> k. it's not just me then. I've been perusing the results of the UX hackfest and am 'attempting' to accept the direction. I guess overall the looks ok, I was just hoping gnome would go on a diet
<thorwil> not just a tad
<darkmatter> thorwil: I was attempting to be polite ;)
<thorwil> heh
<darkmatter> it was that or suggest renaming gnome3 to 'shamu'
<vish> oooohhhh  empty white spaces , definitely a step forward  ;p
<coz_> :)
<thorwil> http://humphreybc.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/strip.jpg
<darkmatter> vish: you should see the current organization of gnome shell. no categories. all apps listed alphabetically in a big-assed pile of icons. visual clutter is very appealing. I shall pity new gnome users ;)
<coz_> thorwil,  lol
<coz_> thorwil,  I like eggplant :)
<vish> i pity the fool!
<darkmatter> thorwil: hehe
<coz_> the new default theme in ubuntu is a bit  carppy
<coz_> although somewhat nice buttons but there is a bug in that they dont render properly  probably metacity
<coz_> dont mean to offend the creator
<darkmatter> coz_: it has potential as far as the basics go, but it feels REALLY rushed (lacks consistency), though I'm sure it'll be improved
<thorwil> ack
<coz_> darkmatter,  well the major thing is the colour of the buttons on that theme
<vish> darkmatter: the apps list , in gnome3 is horrifying , if you dont add an app to the fav , you'll spend more time searching for the app
<darkmatter> vish: I know, that's why I mentioned it
<darkmatter> currently it looks like a bloated iphone
<darkmatter> they should have kept some form of categorization to benefit new users
<coz_> 6 years and they finally change the default theme... to this ?
<darkmatter> gnome3 just feels like an epic dumb-down to me
<coz_> I assume you    mean gnome-shell?
<darkmatter> coz_: gnome3 in general. they're stripping out most of the system settings and crap
<coz_> darkmatter,  sounds like typical gnome approach
<darkmatter> they 'plan' to have an extra app called GNOME Plumbing(or plumber or whatever) (basically like tweakui)available to allow them to be adjusted, but we've heard such things before
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> I'll believe it when I see it
<coz_> darkmatter,  why they insist on cutting out options for users is well beyond my understanding
 * vish imagines darkmatter as a old man siting on a lawn yelling at the kids ;p
<darkmatter> vish: shhh... I wanted that truth kept secret!
<coz_> vish,  no no thats me lol
<coz_> if it wasnt for you damn kids
<coz_> darkmatter,  I think I am a bit older than you
<darkmatter> lies! :P
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> ok.. not lies, you're verging on geriatric ;p
<coz_> darkmatter,    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/me%20pics/00004.png
<darkmatter> :O it's a pasta chef!
<coz_> darkmatter,  by the way that is really me lol
<darkmatter> coz_: I believe ya. just bugging... because I can
<coz_> :)
 * darkmatter is on an extended break from ui stuff and is letting his creative juices flow
<darkmatter> concept art for a long overdue pet project! \o/
<darkmatter> nappy time. brain hurts o/
<coz_> :)
<vish> argh! > http://psankar.blogspot.com/2010/03/forking-evolution.html?showComment=1268493408680#c5756548237122434612
<vish> canonical just had the gnome3 meet , and still people say this :s
<thorwil> vish: there's no shortage of ignorance and knee-jerking on the net. sadly you can't just educate people, they basically have to do that themselves. many don't want to
<elmattt> yop
<elmattt> is there a possibility to find the breathe theme icon in other colors ?
<thorwil> i'm not aware of any variations/derivatives
<elmattt> i need it in blue ^^
<islington> elmattt: you might as well use oxygen then
<elmattt> yes i already have those one
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-03-14
<cjohnston> Is anyone working on business cards with the new  brand in mind?
<knome> cjohnston, i think canonical will work on those.
<simas> hey folks, i have some questions, will 10.04 ship with window buttons on left?
<thorwil> simas: sunday evening (london time) is a bad choice if you want to have a chance of a reply from someone of the canonical design team
<simas> thorwil: oh, i actually never cared about holidays when chatting, but thanks for tip :)
<thorwil> simas: that said, it's the perfect question to get on their nerves and i doubt you would get an answer, currently ;)
<simas> thorwil: heh, so i guess i should just leave this channel....
<simas> good night folks
<up-n-atom> has anyone ever come by this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHhsc4lYamc
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-07
<zniavre> good morning
<thorwil> moin!
<zniavre> that s strange how metacity changed , the last ubuntu login theme is not correct now (the border is not closed in corner) (my onw metacity a bit inspired got the same problem)
<kwwii> moin moin
<thorwil> kwwii: you are alive!!
<kwwii> thorwil: lol, yepp
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-08
<brice__> Hi everyone
<brice__> I try to found some gods about themes
<brice__> I want to use the Ambiance theme, but not all buttons (aboce, stick) are in this theme. I try to found a link (I'm sure someone had modify the theme and add thoses buttons), a coder able to do that(i think it's simple to do that wehn you know want you do ....) or any information.
<brice__> If the option is : "someone can do that", i dont need any art work, i need only a good .xml file with "above" and "stick" like the "menu" (menu_prelight.png and menu.png). i try to do that into the .xml file, but after many try i think i'm not able to do this simple thing
<brice__> someone have knowedge about xml files of metacity theme ?
<vish> brice__: pretty much the same people over here and on gnome-art ;)
<vish> brice__: i'm not exactly sure what those "above" and "stick" options you mention, but your best chances are look for themes which have those buttons and try to copy it
<brice__> I'm on both, but no answer about my problem
<vish> brice__: yea, i dont think i've even seen anyone use that feature, never even heard about it.. and if people on gnome-art dont know either, then the chances are pretty slim :)
<brice__> i tryed, but without succes (modify theme)
<vish> brice__: do you have an example theme which uses those features?
<brice__> hmm, i'm very surprise
<brice__> yes
<brice__> wait
<brice__> both are into the oficial Ubuntu 10.10 distrib
<vish> o.0
<brice__> yes ...
<brice__> you know, the windows buttons, close, minimize, maximize ...
<brice__> ?
<vish> yup
<vish> brice__: i think you maybe using the wrong name for it, an example theme would help understand better what you are looking for
<brice__> into gconf-edit, it's the "config line" with something like that [menu:minimize,maxomize,close]
<vish> i know those, but whats the  "above" and "stick"
<brice__> into metacity, we can configure the option, ":" for the side, left or right of the windows button position
<brice__> yes, and stick is to keep the windows into all deskops
<brice__> and above, to keep a window above all others
<vish> brice__: those are options in the drop down menu, there are no buttons for that
<vish> atleast i havent seen any theme with that available
<brice__> with the themes i will give you, i can do that without problem into gconfedit  : [close,minimize,maximize,spacer,above,stick]
<vish> brice__: do you have an example theme which has those buttons?
<brice__> yes, i come back
<brice__> ok :
<brice__> it's not full theme, but into "windows border"
<brice__> "crux" windows border
<brice__> and "Bright" windows border
<vish> ah!
<brice__> close,minimize,maximize,spacer,above,stick work with those themes
<brice__> and shade too, but i dont use it
<vish> brice__: ok, then check out the xml for crux
<brice__> i done that
<brice__> but i was not able to modify Ambiance to use it
<vish> brice__: the ambiance file in /usr/share/themes/Ambiance ?
<brice__> (sry about my bad english since the begening of this conversation)
<brice__> yes
<vish> no worries :)
<brice__> same for crux
<brice__> and bright
<vish> brice__: you need to edit the file as root
<brice__> done
<brice__> i'm not able to found the good code to put into the metacity.xml, all my try crash the theme
<brice__> i made many try, with various line number, many various code
<brice__> i tryed with the Ambiance xml, copy the code and adapt it with some information i took into crux xml or bright
<vish> brice__: open the metacity-theme-2.xml
<vish> in crux
<vish> it has the lines
<brice__> yes, i found it, but i cant put them simply into the ambiance xml
<vish> brice__: maybe you need to add it as it is done in crux, as metacity-theme-1.xml and metacity-theme-2.xml
<brice__> metacity-theme-2.xml of crux, and metacity-theme-&.xml of ambiance arre not very equals
<brice__> i tryed many things, without success
<vish> brice__: ambiance does not have those lines, so you need to add new lines
<brice__> yes
<brice__> i done
<brice__> but my "code sentenses" dont work
<brice__> because i'm not familiar att all with that, i understand the way, but i'm bad
<brice__> i try to do that since 2 days ! :)
<brice__> i done all things you said
<brice__> but in the bad way, because dont work, and i'm sure it's not impossible, i'm sure it's easy when you know ...
<brice__> it's my problem .....
<vish> brice__: if you've added all the other lines relevant to those functions too and still it does not work.. then hmm, i'm not sure.. :)
<brice__> and i dont need arwork, i want to use the menu.png and the varient lighted, for "stick" and "above" fonction
<brice__> it's xml metacity format ....
<vish> yup.. understood that.. but try checking the code again and make sure it is complete
<brice__> this must work, but i must found the good code sentence, into the good chapter of the xml
<vish> brice__: if nothing else works, try contacting the author
<brice__> i cant undersatnd for real all lines, but i undersatnd sometimes the mean
<brice__> I try to contact someone maked a personnal theme
<vish> brice__: look at the author contact info at the top of the xml file, he maybe able to help
<brice__> with knowedgs, of corse, with metacity xml
<brice__> done too
<brice__> yesterday night
<DustyOS> Hello Every One!!
<brice__> Hi
<DustyOS> hey there, so this is the Ubuntu-Art IRC chat eh?
<brice__> vish, feel free to make some tryes with the xml file if you have some knowedge, i will be happy to have a working xml ! :D
<vish> brice__: why not just use the crux theme and modify it to look like ambience.. should be easier ;)
<DustyOS> Would it be OK if I joined the Ubuntu-Art team?
<DustyOS> I would LOVE to
<vish> DustyOS: sure.. check out the topic for some ways to get involved
<brice__> Vish, i think not !
<DustyOS> Alright cool!
<vish> brice__: just change the images in crux , should not be too hard
<DustyOS> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art how about this?
<brice__> crux ->ambiance, some lines to add, ambiance->crux, all code to change
<DustyOS> I am wanting to join the art part
<vish> DustyOS: the art part done by the community is participating in contests like Â» http://is.gd/iwunay
<brice__> Vish, not possible, the spacers are differents, and the write is very different
<brice__> it's all the code to change
<vish> brice__: ah, then i'm totally out of ideas ;)
<DustyOS> OK thanks
<DustyOS> brb- lunch
<vish> DustyOS: also Ubuntu has a dedicated design team, Canonical design team
* vish changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: Channel for Community Artwork Team: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork | Ubuntu Brand Identity Guidelines are available at: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/ | Looking for ways to contribute to Ubuntu? Â» http://is.gd/iwunay ; http://is.gd/edapuj ; http://is.gd/suhucu
<thorwil> iwunay  edapuj suhucu?
<thorwil> shoprobdang!
<vish> ;)
<thorwil> at least no rickrolling
<vish> is.gd has this option to have the urls as more "pronounceable" and i get those
<vish> otherwise it is even more random gibberish,
<DustyOS> Back
<vish> DustyOS: so, i've updated the topic and you got more links to check out ;)  btw, you should know that the default wallpaper and theme is done by the Canonical design team
<DustyOS> Woah I se
<DustyOS> see*
<DustyOS> thats interesting
<DustyOS> So how do I join them?
<vish> DustyOS: join whom?
<DustyOS> canonical
<vish> DustyOS: maybe when there are jobs available/open
<DustyOS> They don't pay right?
<vish> DustyOS:  the Canonical design team gets paid :)
<DustyOS> Ahh...I see
<DustyOS> Like I was wanting to contribute themes, cursors, wallpapers, icons ect..
<DustyOS> How would I do such things?
<vish> DustyOS: well, for wallpapers you can checkout the links in the topic
<DustyOS> I saw them
<DustyOS> Thanks
<vish> DustyOS: for others, you can do work and submit on sits like gnome-look.org
<vish> sites*
<DustyOS> Right
<DustyOS> Like how does a guy get it so your wallpaper that was made shows up in the next update or update for Ubuntu?
<DustyOS> Or themes
<vish> DustyOS:  for the wallpaper its in the links you can get your wallpaper in the next release.. ;)
<DustyOS> Oh right
<vish> DustyOS: themes, only 1 main theme and the rest are older themes, you can do the all the work and submit as proposals to be included, but no assurances that it might be.
<DustyOS> I see
<DustyOS> Would U say submitting things to Gnome-Look is contributing to Ubuntu?
<vish> yup.. :)
<DustyOS> Nice,
<DustyOS> I have a question
<DustyOS> I plan on making some cursors
<vish> DustyOS: if you are looking to contribute to Ubuntu, just do what you like and do it without expectation whether it will be included or not in the default
<vish> DustyOS: cool!
<DustyOS> I know there are addons like the Gimp-Registry has the .cur add on. Do I need to script anything?
<vish> not sure..
<DustyOS> For instance hovering over a link creats a hand
<vish> i'm not familiar with cursors :)
<DustyOS> I see
<vish> DustyOS: usually if the work is good and complete, it has better chances of getting considered for inclusion
<DustyOS> That would make scene
<DustyOS> What do U do?
<vish> DustyOS: humanity icon theme
<DustyOS> HA! U made that?
<brice__> vish: If you have eventualy a link (mail, hour to contact here) with a man in the team familiar with xml about my problem, thx :)
<vish> DustyOS: yea, with a couple of other guys..
<DustyOS> Woah!! Thats so awesome! A real pleasure to meet U.
<DustyOS> One of the best icons for Ubuntu out there is the humanity one
<vish> pleasure to meet you as well.. :)
<DustyOS> Great job on it too
<vish> thx..
<vish> brice__: i really have no clue about crux theme, and i havent heard of that author , i havent seen him here.
<vish> brice__: he doesnt hang out here, crux theme is mostly from GNOME
<brice__> not only about crux, but someone with knowedge about metacity xml work
<brice__> vish: i need someone able to read esy metacity xml code
<vish> brice__: it really should not be that hard, just try looking at the code fully, you might have missed a couple of lines hence it does not get displayed
<vish> brice__: what you want is basically already there in those lines.. you just need to narrow it down.. sometimes trial-n-error helps ;)
<brice__> vish: i miss something about the good place to put the adapted code, and the call of the value put in memory like valuename=value
<brice__> I'm trying again to read the code ... but I'm very in need of help with metacity xml code god men
<vish> brice__: try #metacity on irc.gimp.org
<brice__> vish: empty channel
<vish> hmm..
<brice__> It's strange to see it's not possible to found someone able to code xml metacity, it's need to make a theme
<brice__> here, or in gnome-art, or tango, or clearlooks ... nobody know what is close, above, shade, stick .... and it's one of the base of theme in xml ... :'(
<vish> brice__: thats because no one use stick/above.. ;)
<vish> brice__: check out the year for crux, 2002.. ;)
<brice__> yes, but it's the same way like close or minimize .... :/
<brice__> just need knowedge about xml ....
<brice__> if someone is able to code something with close, minimize, he is able to code with above and shade and stick
<vish> brice__: not necessarily.. i only have two options i can suggest. (1) try looking at the code again slowly, it really is not hard. (2) try recreating ambiance theme from crux.
<vish> brice__: btw, why exactly are you looking to add those buttons?
<brice__> (3) found a creator of any other metacity theme ;)
<vish> thats not *my* suggestion ;)
<brice__> vish: I stay around, I wont be mmore boring about this, i continue my code try ... I will see ... If you meet someone, any information .... thx a lot
<vish> you're welcome.. :)
<brice__> angry/sad  mode on
<vish> heh, so much for trying to help brice__ ! /me got literally nagged in PM
<vish> metacity xml is not really very hard, and IMO, quite easy to actually understand what it does
<vish> but he wants someone to look into the theme and write it for him â¦ o.0  and just cause he likes it that way..
<darkmatter> lol
<coz_> hey all
<doctormo> hey coz_
<doctormo> Can you review for me this desktop background?
<doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/edu/perspective.png
<highvoltage> doctormo: I'm not sure how I feel about that blue background, I think I liked it more before
<highvoltage> doctormo: I also wonder if there should be slightly less earth visible, I'm not sure but I think it might be better with slightly more space
<doctormo> highvoltage: Hello
<doctormo> highvoltage: So, like that you think?
<coz_> doctormo, hey guy
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-09
<coz_> doctormo,  sorry guy did you ask me to revive that desktop background?
<coz_> I know i just realized you had asked that and my attention was taken away from irc with family stuff
<coz_> oh review that background
<coz_> mmm
<coz_> good day all
<coz_> doctormo,  are you available?
<coz_> hey all
<coz_> hey all
<coz_> doctormo, `  did you want me to see something?
<doctormo> coz_: yes I did
<doctormo> http://divajutta.com/doctormo/art/edu/perspective.png
<coz_> doctormo,  oh! you added a lady bug :)
<doctormo> ladybird, lady-bird! ;-)
<coz_> doctormo,  one problem I see,,, to the right of the tree,, even though I know its meant to be a snow capped peak...it appears at first glance to be a piece of paper  to the right of the tree
<coz_> doctormo, is th is an svg image originally?
<doctormo> coz_: It is
<coz_> doctormo,  a peice of paper?
<doctormo> no, it is an svg
<coz_> oh :)
<coz_> doctormo,  my opinion is to fill that w hie area to the right of the tree with the lightest or darkest green of the hills
<coz_> white area rather
<coz_> doctormo,  other than that the composition is pretty solid..
<coz_> doctormo,  are you doing this in inkscape?
<doctormo> yes
<coz_> doctormo,  that must be painful to save ... it is slow in rendering with all of the gradients?
<doctormo> not that many gradients, but blue in the back is a killer
<coz_> :)
<doctormo> Put each part in a layer and switch off while I work on it
<doctormo> total is only 100KB svg so far
<vish> doctormo: (since opinions are free ;p ).. you might wanna also add a hint of shadow for the tentacles..
<doctormo> no wait 1.2MB
<vish> doctormo: also, technically the moon cannot be visible when the sun in right next to it, its not a light source it reflects light, and the sickle-shape moon is not possible at the angle the shadow is what forms the sickle.. :)
<coz_> doctormo,  wow  yeah dont for get to vacuum defs
<doctormo> vish: I know it's not physically possible.
<vish> doctormo: if you want to show the moon, you could consider the shape as not a sickle, to the other half..
<coz_> well the composition  is pretty solid regardless of its non -naturalistic look
<vish> yup..
<doctormo> vish: Can you provide an example shape?
 * vish looks..
<coz_> well the sun is shining on the correct side of the moon
<coz_> I dont see much of a visual discrepancy here
<vish> doctormo: http://visual.merriam-webster.com/images/astronomy/celestial-bodies/moon/phases-moon.jpg something like the second and fourth in the bottom row..
<darkmatter> doctormo: interesting composition, but it's lacking a powerpuff girl ;D *ducks*
<coz_> :)
<coz_> naked bodies
<darkmatter> nekkid
<coz_> swing
<coz_> shwing
<coz_> doctormo,  do you have something in mind for this image   Edubuntu maybe?
<coz_> oh I see ... vish wants more realizm in an otherwise unrealistic piece :)
<coz_> vish,  you are definitly evil dude :)
<vish> coz_: nah, just an opinion, i dont expect doctormo to listen to me :)
<coz_> :)
<vish> lets just leave it as an observation, rather than a critique.. ;)
<coz_> vish,  ok but that doesnt sound as evil :)
<vish> damn!
<coz_> vish,  I think you will not lose that  adjective
<coz_> :)
<darkmatter> coz_: realism in the unrealistic is awesome. I do it daily ;)
<vish> where are my evil pills!
<coz_> :)
<evilvish> muuhhhaaaa! :D
<coz_> doctormo,  one thing you could "trY'  if you decide on the whole moon or not..is to set it behind the tree
<coz_> evilvish,  lol
<coz_> evilvish,  now I feel at home :)
<coz_> but the main thing I see as a problem is that white portion bottom right poking out from the tree
<darkmatter> evilvish: welcome back, I missed you! let's go barbecue some kittens and catch up :D
<evilvish> yumm
<evilvish> huh, "dark"matter , "evil"vish â¦ maybe we are clones ;p
<darkmatter> hehe
<coz_> evilvish,   ah doctormo  must be editing the image as to our specifications...things are going as planned   :)
<evilvish> oh no! people should really not be listening to me :D
<coz_> :)
<evilvish> coz_: do you know how to change the timing for the trailfocus compiz plugin?
<coz_> evilvish,   ah let me check hold on
<evilvish>  it takes a couple of seconds to adjust when we bring the unfocussed window to focus.. i'm trying to see if i can have the change quicker
<coz_> evilvish,  mm no settings in the plugin ..
<evilvish> bah!..
<coz_> evilvish,   of course you could go the hard way and edit the xml for that plugin
<coz_> evilvish,  you want this slowed down ,,, more speedy??
<evilvish> coz_: faster.. would i have to rebuild something?
<coz_> evilvish,  I trhink if you edit the xml and just restart compiz it should work
 * evilvish goes looking for the xml files..
<coz_> evilvish,  check for the conf file also ...looking here myself
<coz_> evilvish,  the xml should be under /usr/share/compiz
<coz_> oo maybe the .so file as well let me open that to check
<evilvish> coz_: and the conf file?
<coz_> evilvish,  well I did find the libtrailfocus.so   under /usr/lib/compiz  let me check that first
<doctormo> Yes the target is the Edubuntu wallpaper
<doctormo> I've updated it with your suggestions
<coz_> doctormo,  I suspected that :)
<doctormo> And some of my own wrangling
<coz_> cool
<doctormo> coz_: This was the concept they choose out of the 5 I presented to them
<coz_> doctormo,  the biggest issue was that white area bottom right,,
<coz_> doctormo,  ah ok  that's cool
<coz_> doctormo,  it will work for younger kids :)
<coz_> evilvish,  in the xml file I beieve line 185    <max>150</max>  would change the duration
<coz_> let me make sure
<evilvish> i think thats the number of windows to track..
<coz_> yeah sorry
<evilvish> looks like the .so needs to be edited :(
<coz_> I would think duration is in there somewhere
<coz_> probably along with the xml
<coz_> evilvish,  sam is probably asleep right now
<evilvish> aww..
<coz_> evilvish,  well he is in austrailia and believe,, at least from this time zone it is 13 hours ahead of me
<coz_> fo rnow 2 pm so sam is 3 am
<coz_> evilvish,  i have not had to play with t his particular plugins xml or .so before
<coz_> evilvish,  generally it was animations  before 0.9.x came out
<evilvish> coz_: ok, no worries ;)
<coz_> evilvish,   is this 0.8 or 0.9 ?
<evilvish> 0.8
<coz_> ah
<evilvish> i'm still in maverick
<evilvish> only using VM for natty
<coz_> evilvish,  you can install 0.9.x there with a script
<coz_> oh
<coz_> evilvish,    git clone git://anongit.compiz.org/users/soreau/scripts
<evilvish> yea, i did think of getting compiz to 0.9 but then i just got lazy and was wondering if it might cause other problems..
<coz_> evilvish,  just run  the ./build_compiz++  , it will then generate several more scripts in that folder ,, one for the compiz_addons++  for experimental ones
<evilvish> coz_: how has it been for you?
<coz_> evilvish,  its fine  and that script will install it into /opt  so it doesnt interfere with the 0.8  installation
<coz_> evilvish,  to start it would be  /opt/compiz++/bin/compiz++
<coz_> evilvish,  you may find it much snappier and les resource intensive than 0.8.x
<coz_> less
<evilvish> coz_: ok, so i'd need to start compiz .9 every time i boot?
<coz_> evilvish,  one warning... it takes a fairly long time to compile
<coz_> evilvish,  no
<evilvish> cool!
<coz_> evilvish,  unless you wanted it to start up automatically
<coz_> evilvish,  that soreau's script is about the only script I truly trust
<evilvish> ok.. :)
<coz_> evilvish,  he is pretty diligent at keeping up with it
<coz_> rather keeping it current
<evilvish> hmm, deps fail :s
<coz_> evilvish,  o0
<darkmatter> coz_: I used to use his script all the time :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  very reliable
<evilvish> oh wait, i had my own gtk
<coz_> evilvish,   this is ubuntu ...yes?
<evilvish> hehe! i had patch a gtk and the ~ppa is breaking it
<darkmatter> yesh
<evilvish> patched*
<coz_> oh!!!
<coz_> ppapurge :)
<evilvish> hmm, not a bad idea.. i can downgrade to stock and then again install my deb
<coz_> evilvish,  the script should automatically detect which dependencies and install them
<evilvish> yea it did.. but my gtk ppa was the prob :)
<coz_> yuk    understood
<doctormo> evilvish: At least you didn't have to build a dkms package today out of a fresh wacom kernel module :-(
<coz_> I hate errors :)
<evilvish> doctormo: you still having problems with the wacom? is it fully supported yet?
<coz_> it better be
<doctormo> evilvish: These weren't for my problems, these were updated for other people. Lucid and Maverick kernel module upgrades
<evilvish> ah!
<doctormo> I creamed a few people's wacom support by including my Makefile.
<coz_> I would be very very angry with that :)
<doctormo> and so I had to post a new version with that fixes and hopefully everyone will get the updated dkms today.
<coz_> doctormo,   11.04 ?
<doctormo> Well you can't be too angry, I'm looking after wacom-plus support for older ubuntu's. Much more than Ubuntu mainline is doing.
<doctormo> In my spare time, for an issue that doesn't actually effect me ;-)
<coz_> doctormo,  oh  very nice of you
<doctormo> 10.04 and 10.10, 11.04 has the new kernel driver anyway.
<doctormo> Basically it's to support all these newer bamboo devices that came out since 2.6.30 released.
<coz_> doctormo,  ok yeah that I understand... I have intuos
<coz_> so probably not effected
<doctormo> prob not, if you find your keys cause the mouse to jump to 0,0 then you're suffering from the xorg driver bug.
<doctormo> Which I also fix in my ppa wacom-plus
<coz_> doctormo,  oh I have seen on both lucid and maverick as well as natty a cursor jump like that  random it appears
<coz_> doctormo,  then I will try your ppa
<doctormo> What version of xserver-xorg-input-wacom are they shipping in natty?
<coz_> ah  not sure let me try to check on that system
<coz_> doctormo,  xorg-server 1.9.99.902
<doctormo> coz_: that's the version of xorg, what's the driver version?
<coz_> oh wait wrong thing
<coz_> doctormo,  1:0.10.11-ubuntu3
<doctormo> Looks like the same version as my ppa, perhaps I have a patch... although I don't think so.
<coz_> ok
<doctormo> coz_: try it and let me know, it'll be fun to see if it fixes issues in natty. Although you should certainly report them too as a bug report.
<coz_> doctormo,  sure no  problem... do you have ppa link?
<doctormo> https://launchpad.net/~doctormo/+archive/wacom-plus/+packages
<doctormo> I published a natty version too, just in case
<coz_> doctormo,  ok bookmarked,,, will try to get to it  t his evening
<darkmatter> damn. gotta think of a name for my wm/environment (technically a windowmanager based environment as opposed to a "omg! it's a desktop!" thingy :P)
<coz_> :)
<coz_> darkmatter,  how about  "Darkmatter"
<evilvish> coz_: found the desktop team's ppa for 0.9, but does 0.9 have the show desktop plugin?  i cant see any -extra's package
<coz_> evilvish,  well it should be in there... or the compiz ++ addons   are you not going to use the script?
<evilvish> hehe! i'm lazy :D
<coz_> evilvish,  the compi_addons++  script will install all of the extras and experimentals
<coz_> evilvish,  there is quite a number of them
<evilvish> coz_: i tried to downgrade, but that broke the packages.. and ppa seemed easier than
<coz_> oooo
<evilvish> downgrade the gtk
<coz_> damn
<coz_> evilvish,  I believe there are tarballs  let me check
 * evilvish also looks in debian
<darkmatter> coz_: lol. I was thinking something more "freedom inducing" n "open". since there is no "desktop" in the traditional sense (well there's the display area, which can host/embed a ton of junk, but it's decidedly not traditional), and since it's more of a "going places/doing things" mentality as opposed to "running apps" (you already know my "emotive metaphor" direction) I want something that damn near screams "I'M FREE AT LAST!"
<darkmatter> and*
<coz_> evilvish,    http://lists.compiz.org/pipermail/community/2010-October/000253.html
<coz_> wow he pushed in my icons..cool
<evilvish> wheeee! lets see how this goes.. :D
<coz_> :)
<coz_> evilvish,  make sure you dont install to the same directory as the 0.8.x
<coz_> you dont want complications
<evilvish> coz_: i think if i do it with the ppa it will do that..
<coz_> evilvish,  ppa for compiz 0.9?
<evilvish> but i'm not able to build either :(
<coz_> evilvish,  oh no
<evilvish> coz_: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa
<coz_> evilvish,  time for reinstallation
<evilvish> coz_: whaaaa?
 * evilvish stopped update ;)
<coz_> evilvish,  doesnt look like a compiz ppa
<evilvish> coz_: thats from didrocks
<coz_> evilvish,   last ppa was from sam and even he didnt suggest using it
<evilvish> desktop team
<coz_> ah ok
<evilvish>  <coz_> evilvish,  time for reinstallation Â« this would be only for reinstallation of compiz right?
<coz_> ah that ppa is naming the compiz-fusion-plugins-main incorrectly
<coz_> evilvish,  no  silly,,, the entire system
<coz_> :)
<evilvish> ok.. not playing with compiz â¦
<coz_> the plugins should now just be  compiz-plugins-main   compiz-plugins-extra   etc
<evilvish> coz_: thats how the plugins are in ubuntu
<coz_> evilvish,    ah ok
<evilvish> coz_: http://releases.compiz.org/components/plugins-extra/
<coz_> the project dropped  the "fusion" part quite a while ago
<coz_> good
<evilvish> well, atleast the 0.8 ones.. so maybe he just made sure it re-wrote tbe old ones..
<evilvish> s/tbe/the
<coz_> when I think back a few years about the headaches we had with the naming of the project and the in house arguing  ,, and now we are back to "compiz"
<evilvish> heh, planet fedora is on fire! ;)
<coz_> oh!
<coz_> ok I have to break here ,, be back in about an hour hopefully less
<thorwil> bitching about a so called "we know what's best for you" attitude is a common problem
<thorwil> it's as if people don't get that designers *must* decide for others. there simply is no way around that
<evilvish> actually shell has some interesting ideas, it is a start but not yet a complete concept..
<evilvish> if people just want everything the same way, then what is gonna be changed?  we'd just have people going OOOHH ahhh over wallpapers ;p
 * evilvish goes back to readin thorwil's post..
<thorwil> i have no problem with people complaining about gnome shell. i might join, even. but that the criticism is presented so poorly, mixed with very dumb slogans is saddening
<evilvish> yup.. i'm not saying shell is perfect.. :)  but yea criticism is horrid
<evilvish> we could just call it name calling ;p
<evilvish> the funny thing was someone commented on an Ubuntu bug today about Unity
 * evilvish finds the bugs..
<thorwil> name calling is better, because there's no pretense of having an actual argument in it
<evilvish> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/715001/comments/6  one hr later he was filing another Unity bug!!!
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 715001 in unity "DesktopMenu should have a title" [Medium,Opinion]
<evilvish> as if Mark is going to get scared since he wants to switch to Win7 hehe!
<thorwil> if mark can't collect enough souls, he can't transform into a super gagajin and steve ballmer might succeed instead!!!
<doctormo> thorwil: You mean Mark won't be able to go Malphas?
<thorwil> doctormo: isn't the usual path in that direction via becoming a lawyer?
<doctormo> thorwil: No, collect 20 souls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk-S_6qt44c
<doctormo> I enjoyed the time I went malphas and killed about 60 people, oh fun fun.
<doctormo> Lots of lovely souls, nom, nom.
<thorwil> lol
<doctormo> By the way, have you seen this thorwil? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5P7RsC9TI
<thorwil> rofl
<thorwil> doctormo: i have, but it has been a while
<doctormo> Bill Baily is A+ in my book, his black books is great too.
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-10
<cozziemoto> ..
<doctormo> hey cozziemoto
<cozziemoto> doctormo,  hey guy :)
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/design-boost/
<coz_> ciao dudes
<mi-key> hi i am new to artwork, can anyone help?
<evilvish> no mi-key, in 3 mins you cant help ;)
<evilvish> nor can anyone help you ;p
<thorwil> i disabled quits/joins. makes evilvish look evil, indeed, here :)
<evilvish> \o/
<coz_> :)
<doctormo> thorwil: Are you going to be doing some code around design?
<doctormo> I had a design/sharing concept involving svg and javascript.
<thorwil> doctormo: yes, i have emacs open right now, playing with some erlang
<doctormo> thorwil: I'm a python devel myself, don't know anything about erlang. Why this language rather than any other?
<thorwil> doctormo: erlang has been designed for long running processes. it's code hot-swapping ability might come handy. nitrogen seems to be a nice little framework that makes ajax/comet very straightforward. it happens to be written in erlang
<doctormo> Interesting
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-11
<kwwii> moin moin
<coz_> hey guy
<thorwil> good morning!
<kwwii> hey kids, how's things?
<coz_> thorwil,  hey guy
<coz_> kwwii,  hey guy
<kwwii> heya coz_, thorwil
<thorwil> all good
<kwwii> good to hear :-)
<kwwii> saw that the timezone bug was finally fixed ;-)
<thorwil> the timezone in germany still has a DST bug
<thorwil> but i guess it's marked wontfix
<kwwii> DST bug?
<kwwii> all of germany has the same DST, not sure what the problem could be
<thorwil> the 1 hour back and for is the bug ;)
<kwwii> hehe, not sure why they would mark that won't fix
<doctormo> They have bots now that mark bug automatically. To cause maximum distress and suffering.
<doctormo> ;-)
<kwwii> hehe
<coz_> hey all
<Viper550> hello?
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-12
<Viper550> troy_s, hello
<troy_s> Viper550: Well well well...
<troy_s> Viper550: If it isn't a matured Viper. How goes it sir?
<Viper550> Still good. Still unfortunately not using Linux as a primary OS (but still uses OSS whenever possible)
<troy_s> Viper550: Is it unfortunate, fortunate, or moot?
<Viper550> Moot, since I know even with how much development Ubuntu has had lately, I still don't think Windows will be topped as the king of desktop computing
<Viper550> However, I am impressed at how much Linux has been gaining traction on portable devices
<troy_s> Viper550: That would also be a cue to trigger the "Viper is delusional" bell.
<troy_s> Viper550: Last time I checked, MSFT was surfing downward at 219B market cap, Google upwards at 199B, and Apple upwards at 330B.
<Viper550> And, I moved to Saskatchewan last year
<troy_s> Viper550: To me, it reeks of someone that isn't paying attention.
<troy_s> Viper550: Congratulations!
<troy_s> Viper550: Good Canuckville.
<Viper550> and I mean, Android = most popular smartphone OS
<troy_s> Viper550: Really, the whole comparison blah blah blah is a moot point. This has nothing to do with where we are.
<troy_s> Viper550: And everything to do with designing where people are going. Specific people. Specific cultures. Specific needs.
<troy_s> Viper550: And wrapping all of that in a desirable experience.
<Viper550> while my new school board seems to have a flagrant M$ bias (Office 2007, Windows 7, freaking Exchange), at least there's still some Linux here and there
<troy_s> Viper550: Linux is about as suitable for usage as OSX is for medical instrumentation panels or MS is for nuclear submarine control.
<Viper550> my computer science teacher (where we learn *gasp* VB.net) wanted me to install Ubuntu 10.10 on an older laptop
<troy_s> Viper550: It always has been, and always will be, about usefulbility.
<Viper550> and the server that houses the school websites runs some sort of RHEL 4
<Viper550> however, my plan to install Habari as a CMS for the school website has hit some obstacles so big, an IT department ''leader'' is coming to have a meeting with me on Tuesday.
<troy_s> Viper550: The question is whether or not you can create a compelling experience for that person. Good luck with that.
<troy_s> Viper550: Forcing issues where issues are complex will likely result in a bucket of failure.
<Viper550> However, http://schools.cornerstonesd.ca/~wcs/
<troy_s> Viper550: Cut to the chase - so you succeed. Who cares? What is gained? Does it matter?
<troy_s> Viper550: Bigger questions.
<Viper550> I live in a small town. If I can make any change towards the better here, it will feel like an accomplishment
<troy_s> Viper550: Better is a relative word my friend.
<Viper550> I mean better as in, not looking like a stereotypical Geocities site
<troy_s> Viper550: Erm... well isn't that a question of aesthetic?
<Viper550> thenagain, our school board already utilizes a whole batch of web apps (Blackboard, Home/TeacherLogic), so being able to apply the principle to school websites could make it easier to keep them updated/maintained
<Viper550> and also, Unity is an interesting desktop
<troy_s> Viper550: You are all over the map. You are supposed to be four years older.
<troy_s> Viper550: How are you finding Saskatchewan?
<Viper550> Snow, snow, and more snow.
<Viper550> the provincial government operates its own phone company, SaskTel
<Viper550> thankfully their internet service isn't that bad
<coz_> hey all
<duanedesign> hello leoquant
<leoquant> hi duanedesign
<duanedesign> how have you been?
<leoquant> a bit "low", but i am up and running again duanedesign
<leoquant> how are you?
<duanedesign> leoquant: I was just thinking about past Beginners Team members I had not talked to in awhile and then you popped in :)
<duanedesign> seemd llike a great coincidence
<duanedesign> leoquant: Have you done much art lately?
<leoquant> yeah
<leoquant> i have my one room for painting now
<leoquant> which is great
<duanedesign> that is great
<leoquant> and it is seperate from fam. affairs etc. ã
<leoquant> painting needs to be done in your own room, alone isn't it?
<duanedesign> oh definetly
<duanedesign> everyone I know that paints has a room for it
<duanedesign> leoquant: I have not painted in almost a year now. I have been working on wire sculptures lately
<leoquant> great, like giacometti?
<leoquant> with his single person statures
<leoquant> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://kunstencultuur.pbworks.com/f/1203861751/ThreeMenWalkingII%2520-%2520Alberto%2520Giacometti2.JPG&imgrefurl=http://kunstencultuur.pbworks.com/w/page/9340205/Giacometti%2520Alberto%2520-%2520Three%2520Men%2520Walking%2520II&h=454&w=300&sz=54&tbnid=vGyA7AwdoAiRlM:&tbnh=276&tbnw=182&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgiacometti&zoom=1&q=giacometti&usg=__3XbR7U7GUYzXkLGB9ZjmXKH38tQ=&sa=X&ei=J4h
<leoquant> 7TZDMDoyWOoL59c0H&ved=0CCIQ9QEwAA
<leoquant> oops.....
<leoquant> lol
<leoquant> or are they abstract due?
<duanedesign> http://bit.ly/ha6QEb
<leoquant> duanedesign, tabfail
<duanedesign> i was looking I thought i had some pictures online
<duanedesign> that bit.ly link is similar in style
<leoquant> thats nice
<duanedesign> I am still kind of exploring different styles
<leoquant> i like that picture/stature
<leoquant> its alive
<leoquant> you have seen my pictures
<leoquant> i had them on ubuntuforums...a periode...
<leoquant> duanedesign, i have to some administration things....
<duanedesign> i will look
<leoquant> talk to you later?
<duanedesign> ok great talking with you leoquant
<duanedesign> leoquant: definetly
<leoquant> ok ã
<coz_> hey guys
<evilvish> hey copy-paster, err... coz_  ;)
<coz_> evilvish,  hey guy    :)
<coz_> evilvish,  yes I was told that using a script for saying this was "unwelcomed" in most channels
<evilvish> coz_: nah, you are manually logging in right? so not a huge issue..
<coz_> evilvish,  oh  maybe I misunderstood them then
<coz_> I know all I have to do atually  "amsg  hey guys"
<coz_> that should show up in all channels I have
<evilvish> hmm, i should remind charlie to mention on the ML that the xubuntu task is done..
<coz_> evilvish,  arent they all dont at this point?
<evilvish> coz_: yea, they choose a couple of wallpapers last meeting
<coz_> evilvish, ` ah ok... cool .. at least that painful experience is finished :)
<coz_> evilvish,  are there more contents on the horizon?
<evilvish> coz_: not that i know of :)
<coz_> evilvish,  ok cool thanks
<coz_> ok I am going for lunch...chinese  I think,,,, be back later
<coz_> hey guys
<coz_> hey guys
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-03-13
<coz_>  hey guys
<coz_> hey all
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-03-08
<infinitux> hi.
 * infinitux is thinking about contributing some 3d rendering to the ubuntu project
<ScG^Dedicated> hello o/
<ScG^Dedicated> I am looking for a high resolution logo from Ask Ubuntu, since I could not find it I am now looking to recreate to logo with the help of the ubuntu brand guidelines though I don't think the Ubuntu font is freely available. Anyone that could help me with this? :)
<tsimpson> ScG^Dedicated: in what sense is it not freely available?
<ScG^Dedicated> well is the font available to everyone?
<ScG^Dedicated> or anyone rather
<tsimpson> well, it's open source, so yeah
<tsimpson> I think there are some restrictions about commercial use etc (though I haven't read through the entire license)
<ScG^Dedicated> well do you happen to know if it's legal or illegal to create a high res version of the Ask Ubuntu logo while not being an employee? :)
<tsimpson> the trademark policy allows for community use of the Ubuntu logo
<tsimpson> short answer is "yes, you can create a (new) work based on the (original) ubuntu logo"
<tsimpson> long answer is similar, except it contains "I am not a lawyer" several times :)
<ScG^Dedicated> haha
<ScG^Dedicated> but the logo is to be used for a gif which will be used for a bug report
<ScG^Dedicated> does that count as community use then?
<ScG^Dedicated> I am sorry but I am really bad with such policies :)
<tsimpson> as long as you don't use the logo commercially, and especially if you're using it inside the Ubuntu community, you should be fine using both the logo and fonts in whatever way you like
<iainfarrell> If you're after logo usage guidelines you should look at the usage guide on design.canonical.com
<iainfarrell> http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/
<ScG^Dedicated> thank you :)
<tsimpson> google was failing me trying to find that link
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-03-07
<melodie> hi
<melodie_> hi
<melodie_> gn
#ubuntu-artwork 2015-03-06
<hardtail> hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2017-03-07
<technocf> ello, it is still possible to submit to the free culture showcase for 17.04 and how?
<technocf> Hello*
<technocf> Nevermind, got an answer elsewhere.
