#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-21
<TheSheep> surreal7z: we really don't care, can you disable that?
<surreal7z> TheSheep: sure'
<TheSheep> surreal7z: thanks a lot
<surreal7z> TheSheep: no problem, i need to respect u here, u know way too much :p
<Sysi> (ask ubottu about 'u')
<knome> there's only one thing sheep know of
<knome> that's "baaaaa!"
<ochosi> lol
<surreal7z> !u
<ubottu> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' nor 'Ur' are words in the English language. Neither are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'Ne1' nor 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<surreal7z> where can i see all ubuttu commands
<surreal7z> found something
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-22
<micahg> ochosi: mr_pouit: finally, success with git + gmusicbrowser :)
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<ochosi> so you packaged gmusicbrowser from squentin's git-repo for debian/ubuntu?
<mr_pouit> feel free to upload, then I'll s/exaile/gmusicbrowser/ in the seeds and in the panel launchers :)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so if gmusicbrowser from upstream gets packaged (btw, there are still a few important updates to come until thursday) we can later patch it for xubuntu?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: just in case not everything necessary makes it upstream for the freeze
<mr_pouit> yeah, we can still patch if needed
<ochosi> ok, that's fine then
<ochosi> squentin started applying patches from my repo yesterday, but he's not done yet
<ochosi> brb
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<micahg> ochosi: no, I was importing 1.1.6
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, but 1.1.6 from what repository? https://github.com/squentin/gmusicbrowser ?
<mr_pouit> the released tarball I guess
<ochosi> mr_pouit: right, i guess that was a misunderstanding because micahg said git + gmb
<mr_pouit> ochosi: that's the same, he has probably imported the v1.1.6 tag from git
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: anything known about the alternate images failing to work for a kernel mismatch error?
<cody-somerville> I think d-i is just borked today
<charlie-tca> yup, there is bug filed that cjwatson is working
<davmor2> cody-somerville: charlie-tca: yeap it's borked today
<charlie-tca> bug 723148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 723148 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Natty server ISO images fail to install" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/723148
<charlie-tca> desktop images do install, though
<surreal7z> hi guys.. when I plug in my external HDD this is what happens... It's called "The Cube" and I have a folder \media which has "The Cube" folder, but owner is root... and when I want to access it... I don't have permissions and the "The Cube_" is created which is good... 
<surreal7z> wrong channel
<surreal7z> sry
<micahg> ochosi: the big issue for this week is feature freeze, since you're fixes are UI improvements, I think we're good if we get 1.1.6 upstream in by thursday
<ochosi> micahg: ok that's fine. in fact if you don't take the tarball but the latest git-version on thursday that might save us some patches for later (at least if that's possible)
<ochosi> micahg: i'm also checking on a mpris2 plugin to make the sound-indicator work
<ochosi> micahg: i might be able to get that upstream till thursday
<ochosi> micahg: please let me know whether it's worth a try
<micahg> ochosi: well, I'm doing this through Debian, and idk how to package git snapshots yet, and we're about 24 hours out, so I'd rather run with what we have, as long as we're not adding features, we're fine uploading new bug fix/UI  versions
<ochosi> micahg: hm, i don't know but wouldn't the way i package for ubuntu work for debian as well? (simply using debuild, the rest (rules etc) should be contained in git already)
<micahg> ochosi: yes, but works vs proper are not necessarily the same thing, Debian requires proper packaging
<micahg> i.e. standards compliant/lintian clean
<ochosi> i'm afraid adding a plugin for mpris2 might be considered a "feature" not a fix...
<ochosi> right, that's true
<ochosi> or could we argue that the mpris plugin is a ui-change?
<ochosi> (brb)
<ochosi> micahg: ok, the mpris2 plugin works, i just tried it. would really be cool if we could include that
<micahg> ochosi: ugh, that's a feature :(
<ochosi> awwh
<micahg> we can probably sneak it in though
<micahg> ochosi: do you know when the new upstream version will be ready?
<ochosi> i'll check that out, i think that we can really get most of the stuff that would be needed done by tomorrow
<ochosi> tomorrow being wednesday
<ochosi> micahg: until when would you need it?
<micahg> idk, the sooner the better, if I have an estimate, I can go to skaet and say we'll have this done by this date, can we get an exception
<ochosi> ok, i'll quickly check with upstream, give me a few mins
<ochosi> but the thing is that this might need some testing, at least tonight
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-23
<ochosi> micahg: after testing it a bit the plugin still seems a bit shaky, not sure when it will be stable
<ochosi> micahg: is there any other way we can include it?
<micahg> ochosi: ping
<ochosi> micahg: pong
<micahg> ochosi: so, Debian's having trouble with the fact the gmusicbrowser is a development version
<ochosi> hm, right.
<ochosi> "having trouble" means they won't accept it?
<micahg> ochosi: you said before it you've tested it well, do you think it would be ok to release with it + your patches?
<ochosi> micahg: for debian or for ubuntu?
<micahg> ochosi: Ubuntu
<micahg> I can have Debian upload to experimental
<ochosi> micahg: no problem
<ochosi> micahg: the main reason why i wanted debian to have upstream is because i don't want to piss off the main developer by superseding his version with my patches
<ochosi> micahg: that wouldn't be very nice
<ochosi> micahg: as long as it's "only" ubuntu i think it's ok
<micahg> ochosi: I just asked for it in experimental
<ochosi> micahg: ok
<ochosi> micahg: if it were only about ubuntu you could simpy take the packages from my ppa
<micahg> ochosi: well, I'd like Debian to benefit as well
<ochosi> micahg: sure, i'm fine with that
<ochosi> micahg: just sayin... :)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hi charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<charlie-tca> Did we get Gmusicbrowser uploaded ?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I don't how or why, but my cursor is working in natty
<charlie-tca> Now if only xfwm4 would start when I log in
<charlie-tca> micahg, cody-somerville : need to consider testing armel images for Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> I did add it to tomorrows meeting agenda
<ochosi> charlie-tca: micahg is working on uploading gmusicbrowser
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i already talked to mr_pouit about patching it later for xubuntu
<ochosi> charlie-tca: good to hear your cursor is working. btw i think the fact that the mouse-cursor disappears on touchpad-tap is a serious design flaw and an accessibility-problem
<charlie-tca> huh
<charlie-tca> I don't know anything about a touchpad issue
<charlie-tca> Is that Xfce, or Ubuntu?
<ochosi> i guess it's an xorg setting by ubuntu or something
<ochosi> but i don't know
<charlie-tca> ouch
<ochosi> the mousecursor disappears upon keyboard activity
<charlie-tca> I will try to investigate it then
<ochosi> and somehow it seems that touchpad-tapping is counted as that kind of activity
<ochosi> something like "button pressed"
<charlie-tca> Mine doesn't disappear, but I don't have a touchpad, either
<micahg> charlie-tca: I've been trying to upgrade my arm machine to natty without success, I'll have to dig further, were you thinking USB image test?
<charlie-tca> micahg: I am looking at natty alpha3 image tests and further 
<charlie-tca> We don't have any armel images at this time, that I know. But before we do have any, we need to have testers committed
<micahg> charlie-tca: how long does image testing take?
<charlie-tca> three days, depending on whether or not there are problems. 
<charlie-tca> Actually, it takes a full install of several type partitioning , so it depends on how long each installation takes to run
<charlie-tca> One of my systems takes an hour to run an installation, for whole disk, guided partitions, manual partitions, it is a minimum of 3-1/2 hours
<charlie-tca> Sometimes it means downloading or syncing the images 4-5 times a day, and trying the installs each time
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, I'll get back to you
<ochosi> micahg: hey, i have a quick packaging question
<ochosi> micahg: maybe you know that i wanted a few upstream projects (among them the elementary icons) to do a release before tomorrows freeze, so that everything would be up-to-date
<ochosi> micahg: do you think it would still be possible to upload the newer version of the icon theme if it were released today?
<ochosi> micahg: possibly there'd follow a bugfix release till mid-march or something
<micahg> ochosi: icon theme I don't think is bound by feature freeze
<micahg> unless it's got a feature related to it
<ochosi> micahg: the "feature" would be being as xfce-complete as possible
<ochosi> so i guess that could also be counted as bugfix
<charlie-tca> I can file a bug report if you want it
<ochosi> hm, you know most things i worked on wrt the icon theme already went upstream
<micahg> ochosi: yeah, I don't think that's an issue for tonight, should be complete by UI freeze though
<ochosi> but since there hasn't been a new release since then i would have to backport all that to the elementaryXubuntu icon theme
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'll let them know that UI freeze is what counts, thanks for your info/help!
<ochosi> g2g now, see you around!
<ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, i think i won't be able to make it to the meeting tomorrow, i'll try to instruct someone else to take my place
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i'll probably make a list or something
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> micahg: Can you take a look at bug 699843 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 699843 in pidgin-facebookchat (Ubuntu Lucid) "package pidgin-facebookchat (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/pixmaps/pidgin/protocols/16/facebook.png', which is also in package pidgin-data 1:2.7.9-1ubuntu0 pidgin1.10.04" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/699843
<micahg> charlie-tca: yeah, I'll have to look a little later, I already talked to pitti that it's on my list somewhere
<charlie-tca> okay. thanks
<charlie-tca> Time to apply for UDS in May - http://2tu.us/2yt2
 * cody-somerville booked his flight on Monday. :) 
<charlie-tca> but cody-somerville knows he gets sponsored :-)
<cody-somerville> I was I got 'sponsored' to go. Its more fun that way. Going because one has to for work detracts from the experience (but is still fun none the less for the most part)
<cody-somerville> *wish
<charlie-tca> this is true, too
<charlie-tca> I am hoping I get to go to to this one... The last uds was so energizing, it is amazing.
 * micahg needs to book his flight...
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-24
<micahg> ochosi: mr_pouit: Debian's not cooperating, so I'll just upload gmusicbrowser straight to Ubuntu with the changes I made to the Debian package
<ochosi> micahg: ok, but does that mean we can then simply supersede it with packages from the ppa or is it still better to apply all patches individually?
<micahg> ochosi: the patches are still just UI, right?
<ochosi> micahg: btw, the mpris2 plugin will be ready by tomorrow (i guess still thursday), i tested them a few hrs ago
<ochosi> micahg: yes
<micahg> will there be a new usptream tommorow?  freeze is 18:00 UTC
<ochosi> well it will be in git tomorrow, most likely not as a 1.1.7 release
<ochosi> would we need that?
<ochosi> can't we do something like a 1.1.6git version? (i thought ubuntu does/did that for a lot of packages, e.g. murrine)
<ochosi> it's a pity debian isn't cooperating...
<ochosi> still very cool that you tried it
<micahg> I would only want to do that if there will be a full release without new feaures before beta
<micahg> but I guess mr_pouit can make the call
<ochosi> you mean a simple bugfix release?
<ochosi> ok, i'll discuss it with him tomorrow
<micahg> ochosi: right, a 1.1.7 or ideally a 1.2.0
<ochosi> micahg: hm, gmusicbrowser's dev is really really conservative about releases and version numbers, 1.1.x is used for dev-releases for more than a year now
<ochosi> tiny features are missing so he's not bumping it to 1.2
<ochosi> (1.1.x is a rewrite of 1.0)
<micahg> ok, well, let's see what happens in the morning, once we get the release in, we can still sync from Debian later
<micahg> I'm going to try to work it out with the last uploader
<micahg> he's afraid because it's a devel release
<mr_pouit> micahg: feel free to upload either a git snapshot or 1.1.6 (in any case, we'll need a few post-1.1.6 features, such as xdg base dirs spec support, so we'll probably have to ask for a few exceptions)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, it's worth getting at least 1.1.6 in though, right?
<mr_pouit> yep, definitely
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, will do, thanks
<mr_pouit> ok, thanks a lot :) (g2g, sorry)
<micahg> \o/ I just got the ok for gmusicbrowser to go in experimental :)
<micahg> even better, it's going to unstable :)
<Sysi> are we going to not have workspace switcher on panel on natty by default?
<mr_pouit> micahg: woo, I saw it has been synced ;-)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I just filed the bug so far
<mr_pouit> micahg: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/1.1.6-1
<micahg> err, he's not supposed to do that :-/
<mr_pouit> (ahah, ok, I'm not the only one who doesn't use syncpackage then)
<micahg> eh, I've given up for the moment chasing after people for it
<ochosi> hey micahg, congrats on the debian packaging!
<knome> charlie-tca, you around?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> knome: here now
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<knome> charlie-tca, the ubuntu wiki is *slow*. it is really hard to work with it, which is one of the things we set up our own.
<knome> anyway, there's a new menu proposal at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Toolbox/MenuNew
<charlie-tca> yes, it is slow. But it is the official wiki, one of the reasons we use it.
<knome> yes, but it renders itself unusable
<charlie-tca> um, seems dark red on dark blue is not really readable
<knome> i really don't want to use half of my day waiting the wiki to update the pages
<ochosi> :)
<knome> i rather just skip doing then...
<knome> we can't affect the link color.
<knome> besides, it's orange :P
<ochosi> i agree with knome, the wiki-speed is really a field to improve
<charlie-tca> Then we need a brighter blue
<charlie-tca> We need to be able to read the menu
<knome> yeah, the colors need improving
<knome> especially the middle section
<knome> that's why it's not default already :P :P
<charlie-tca> The dark blue is no good
<Sysi> i find it strange that we use ubuntu wiki
<Sysi> it's *Ubuntu*, orange, and does kubuntu have own?
<charlie-tca> If canonical gave us our own domain, we would not use ubuntu wiki. 
<knome> Sysi, yes, they had their own *theme*
<ochosi> would be nice to have our own small dokuwiki attached to xubuntu.org
<knome> charlie-tca, i'm sure we could set up a dokuwiki in wiki.xubuntu.org.
<knome> ochosi, ^
<knome> at least, we could ask.
<ochosi> +1
<knome> pleia2, 
<knome> pleia2, would you mind adding an rt ticket for setting up a dokuwiki installation in wiki.xubuntu.org?
<charlie-tca> slow down
<knome> pleia2, (as you seem to get things done with the IS)
<charlie-tca> when did we (Xubuntu) make that decision?
<knome> i don't want to slow down the wiki any more ;)
<knome> we can *ask* if we'd get one?
<charlie-tca> Who decided you get to make that decision?
<charlie-tca> We are just going to abandon the ubuntu wiki without checking into what the options are first. 
<charlie-tca> I don't think so. We need to look into things.
<cody-somerville> I can guarantee that request will be denied.
<knome> charlie-tca, since when did we go back to dictatorship?
<charlie-tca> knome: we are not just moving the wiki
<charlie-tca> When you become the dictator?
<knome> charlie-tca, of course we are not just moving the wiki
<knome> but we can investigate if it's even a possibility
<charlie-tca> You just made the decision, didn't you?
<knome> no, i didn't make a single decision
<charlie-tca> <knome> pleia2, would you mind adding an rt ticket for setting up a dokuwiki installation in wiki.xubuntu.org?
<knome> the fact that we would have dokuwiki there doesn't mean we're going to move anything there
<knome> does it?
 * micahg still has the kubuntu theme on teh wiki :)
<charlie-tca> yes, it does, the way yo9u work
<charlie-tca> We are not officially funded, kubuntu is. That seems to give kubuntu a bit more leeway in how they do things.
<knome> aren't we assuming things again?
<charlie-tca> No, I don't think so. I think you are jumping the gun and making a decision that is not yours to make.
<cody-somerville> knome, I can guarantee a request for a DokuWiki instance would be denied.
<knome> cody-somerville, does that mean we shouldn't even ask? i remember you saying that IS might not allow wordpress either, and now we're on our way to having one.
<knome> charlie-tca, i apologise, but as i told, the way ubuntu wiki is now renders it unusable for me.
<micahg> cody-somerville: would we be able to request a theme on the Ubuntu wiki?
<charlie-tca> Why are we asking if we have not made any decision to use it?
<cody-somerville> With enough prodding, yes.
<knome> micahg, it's not really about the theme (i suppose that's possible), but the slowness
<micahg> charlie-tca: an option to consider maybe?
<charlie-tca> micahg: yes, that is a good option to consider. 
<knome> i see only minor improvement in having an own theme.
<charlie-tca> I don't have much hope for it, but that is because accessibility has been trying to get a theme approved for a very long time already
<knome> charlie-tca, i had some conversations with the website folks, and i think we could get a xubuntu theme there, if we wanted
<charlie-tca> As a separate distribution, we might be able to get a theme approved. 
<knome> let's get back to the original issue
<cody-somerville> I'd encourage noise making about the wiki.u.c speed. I have to admit its getting pretty unbearable.
<knome> cody-somerville, it has been that for the last, what, 3 years?
<knome> people HAVE made noise about it
<knome> i seems like there is not going to be any change about that
<charlie-tca> then why haven't the website folks done anything about it?
<knome> i don't know.
<knome> i moaned about the slowness of the wiki when we got the new theme, and they said they are going to do something about it
<cody-somerville> theres been a lot of changes in the organizational structure of IS inside of Canonical. You'll probably have more success in getting something done about it now.
<knome> they did - and it got slightly faster - for a while
<knome> cody-somerville, considering it's not the xubuntu wiki, but the whole ubuntu wiki, something should have done about it already
<charlie-tca> It's time to squeak and whine again then
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: what about trying to get a domain approved, and split the wiki for Xubuntu?
<knome> charlie-tca, what if you, as the respected and might powerful xubuntu project lead, whined about it?
<charlie-tca> I am willing to whine about it. I just need some other whiners with me
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> sounds like fun
<knome> i've whined about it so many times i can't even count the times with my fingers and toes
<charlie-tca> When I whined about accessibility, I stood alone, and that failed bad
<knome> that's the problem.
<charlie-tca> but I will pursue this, as project leader. That does give some push, sometimes.
<knome> i suppose that's the ubuntu way of governance
<knome> poke from below, and you get pushed in the mud
<cody-somerville> complain to Jono or Jorge Castro
<mr_pouit> bwahaha
<mr_pouit> (sorry)
<knome> they'll say the wiki is so awesome so it can be slow
<knome> AWESOME MAN
<charlie-tca> but back to my question, what about getting a domain approved and set up a Xubuntu wiki under moinmoin?
<knome> GREAT THAT YOU EXPRESSED YOUR FEELINSG
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: doesn't the slowness come from moinmoin? :(
<knome> from the overloaded moinmoin, yes
<mr_pouit> (or only from the ubuntu wiki architecture?)
<charlie-tca> yes, but if xubuntu had it's own domain, it would be a separate moinmoin instance, and that alone speeds it up
<knome> charlie-tca, why would we get an own instance? even the kubuntu wiki isn't onw.
<knome> *one
<charlie-tca> I think a lot of the slowdown is because of the size of the wiki
<cody-somerville> Actually, it is a separate 'instance' but it uses the same database. To have a different default theme requires it.
<charlie-tca> kubuntu uses wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu ?
<mr_pouit> urgh
<knome> charlie-tca, no, wiki.kubuntu.org.
<charlie-tca> you have help.ubuntu.com, wiki.ubuntu.com, uds.ubuntu.com, etc. They are separate and not all as slow
<knome> charlie-tca, which links to the ubuntu wiki mainpage, but with the kubuntu theme
<knome> yes, but help. and uds. are different altogether
<knome> they are not even using the same database
<charlie-tca> no, help is part of wiki.ubuntu.com and was split off it about 4 years ago.
<knome> yes, but *now* it is a completely different thing than wiki.ubuntu.com.
<knome> wiki.kubuntu.org has the same data as wiki.ubuntu.com, thus sharing something with it
<charlie-tca> um, kubuntu wiki is much faster than wiki.ubuntu.com
<knome> help.ubuntu.com is completely torn apart
<micahg> also, currently wiki.xubuntu.org redirects to www.xubuntu.org whereas wiki.kubuntu.org points to the wiki
<charlie-tca> if it is using the same database, it matters to have a separate domain
<knome> charlie-tca, that's because what cody described - it is a different *instance*, since a different theme needs that
<charlie-tca> micahg: that is fixable. We also have xubuntu.com or .net already
<charlie-tca> and why can't Xubuntu have that?
<knome> charlie-tca, probably could.
<knome> charlie-tca, the problem might be that kubuntu had their theme before the "new" theme
<charlie-tca> which would result in the increase in speed and keep us in the ubuntu spaces
<knome> charlie-tca, so they could keep it
<charlie-tca> We can ask, right?
<knome> charlie-tca, now that there is the new theme, i don't know how eas it is to get an own teme
<knome> feel free to file an rt ticket...
<knome> dinner, be back after that and open for more discussion
<knome> yay, the wiki is down
<knome> anyway, now that it seems to have been recovered, the marketing plans are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
<knome> (let's see if you can all get those open before the meeting today)
<charlie-tca> heh, yeah, I know. I been fighting the wiki too
<charlie-tca> knome: I don't use the standard Ubuntu wiki theme, I use "right-side", which makes the links a different color than orange.
<charlie-tca> That's why they are so dark for me on that header
<charlie-tca> I gave up on the standard theme a long time back, since I couldn't see a lot of what was on the page with it.
<knome> charlie-tca, right.
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, any changes we make have to work with more than just the standard theme, then?
<knome> apparently.
<charlie-tca> Unless we can get our own theme in there, and lock it?
<knome> we can't lock anything.
<charlie-tca> I see. Until I log into the wiki.kubuntu.org as a separate login, I get their theme, but after I login, I get mine again
<charlie-tca> So, the best we can do is our own theme, to be used until login?
<charlie-tca> and all it takes to get our own theme is to use a sub-domain of xubuntu.org?
<charlie-tca> and it is faster than what we got now...
<knome> talked with matthew nuzum (newz2000), who said that's probably not going to happen.
<knome> he also said that there is discussion (and in theory work) about migrating moinmoin to a newer version, that is supposed to speed up things.
<knome> he hasn't answered to my question about an estimate when this would happen, if it happens.
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i just sent you the article via email
<knome> so our options are: 1) stick with the slow ubuntu wiki 2) stick with the slow ubuntu wiki 3) do something dramatic.
<ochosi> g2g now, have fun everyone!
<charlie-tca> not dramatic, just try to get our own theme into the wiki, so it won't be so slow
<charlie-tca> ooops
<charlie-tca> should have read all of it
<knome> yeah. there is not much hope, even if the IS has changed.
<charlie-tca> matthew is the same person told me the wiki theme was set in stone and would not be changed. However, a new theme just came out a few days ago
<knome> a new theme?
<charlie-tca> am I mixing up my wikis again. Maybe that was www.ubuntu.com
<knome> that's only some improvements over the old theme, maybe?
<charlie-tca> where they had many different color links, and whined about it
<knome> right
<charlie-tca> Now the links are all one color, and the banner is much nicer
<knome> right
<charlie-tca> but it still the same person that said it would not happen
<knome> well, i've had many discussions with him in the past years
<charlie-tca> I guess I prefer not to hear him now ;-)
<charlie-tca> Is he the one that makes the decision on the theme? 
<knome> the reason why he told our own theme might not be possible at all is that he is not satisfied at all with the way the kubuntu wiki theme is set up
<charlie-tca> That's because he doesn't control it
<knome> or, they in IS
<knome> no, that's because it brings technically problems when both the instances use the same database
<knome> and i full agree with that. it's in no way a good solution.
<charlie-tca> crap
<knome> it's merely a hack.
<charlie-tca> all right, back to the thinking caps then. 
<charlie-tca> who do we push to find out what options are available to us?
<charlie-tca> I know cody-somerville said no way to dokuwiki, but is there an alternative to explore that we might be able to use?
<charlie-tca> and, yes, I think he is in the position to know if that would be turned down, too.
<knome> i suppose cody said no way to dokuwiki because generally, the IS probably do not want to split the wiki any way.
<cody-somerville> that and its written in PHP
<charlie-tca> yup
<knome> cody-somerville, wordpress is in php, and we're getting php. that's not really a solid argument.
<charlie-tca> That will do it, all right. We can't get php approved
<knome> can't get php approved??
<knome> in which langugage is wordpress written in?
<cody-somerville> Its an exception.
<charlie-tca> Not unless it is specifically done for Ubuntu/Canonical
<charlie-tca> I remember hearing that way way back, when there was a very small discussion about trying to move away from moinmoin
<knome> cody-somerville, if there is one exception, there can be other exceptions as well. i appreciate your insight, but as long as you are not in the decision-making position in the IS, please do not say "you can't", se we really can't be sure. that leads to a thinking that we can't ever even propose anything.
<knome> s/se/as/
<knome> charlie-tca, i remember that discussion as well
<cody-somerville> knome, I interact with IS on a daily basis as a part of my job. I'm very familiar with their policies. Although it is true that someone else besides me would ultimately make the decision, I'm trying to help you avoid wasting your time.
<knome> charlie-tca, you might want to join #ubuntu-website, we're discussing the matter there right now
<knome> cody-somerville, i understand. but please try to understand that i also know how hard it is to get any change in the ubuntu community - though, i do also know it is possible.
<knome> cody-somerville, if you don't try to push towards better things, you'll never get them. really.
<cody-somerville> I appreciate your optimism.
<knome> cody-somerville, if i use 5 or 15 minutes of my time writing an rt ticket, i don't care even if you think it's wasted.
<charlie-tca> me and the Website team do not see anything the same. They only tell me what can not be done. 
<knome> AlanBell has on rt ticket open on updating the wiki (if i understood correctly)
<charlie-tca> and it has been open since before Natty uds
<knome> charlie-tca, so does cody-somerville tell us... ;)
<charlie-tca> and the website team has done everything possible to stop AlanBell being able to get an accessible theme into the wiki, rather than try to help get it done.
<knome> do you think the website team says no to you just because they think it is a funny thing to do?
 * cody-somerville hasn't considered that before.
<charlie-tca> No, I will reserve my opinion at this point
<charlie-tca> I will go get stuff together for the meeting now, before I say anything I will regret
<cody-somerville> lol
<knome> i don't know the details on the accessibility theme issue, and to be honest, that's a completely other fight. getting the wiki work so that it's usable would be profit the whole community, even the website team
<knome> again, i can attend the meeting for the first hour.
<knome> charlie-tca, if you need to say something you regret later, feel free to do that in /query knome
<knome> :P
<knome> there is always a chuck of truth in those statements.
<knome> *chunk
<charlie-tca> along the lines of "if you can't say something nice...", I just let it go
<knome> ah, the jono bacon motto for lige
<knome> *life
<knome> that's good in many situations, but sometimes it just hurts you and others to stay silent.
<pleia2> knome: I didn't read the whole backscroll, but the main ubuntu wiki is getting some major upgrades in the coming weeks so the slowness and errors should be going away soon
<knome> pleia2, is that for sure?
<pleia2> knome: yes, IS is already doing trials for the canonical wiki
<knome> okay, glad to hear that.
<pleia2> once they've worked out the kinks they're going to move on to the main one
<knome> i hope it really clears the issues, since we've had those for ages and again ages :(
<charlie-tca> soft freeze for alpha 3 next week on Monday 2300 UTC
<pleia2> knome: yeah, it's gotten fairly unusable since new years, apparently when 500 errors outweigh fully successful edits is when they start paying attention ;)
<knome> mm-hmm
<pleia2> so they'll upgrade the software itself which has better support for larger wikis and will allow them to optimize searching
<knome> yeah, i gathered that from my discussion with newz2000
<charlie-tca> uh, this seems bad... I have not done any updates today, restarted after updating yesterday. I now have 71 updates to install, and an icon that says restart required to complete updates
<charlie-tca> Reminder - Xubuntu Community Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 10 minutes; everyone invited; agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> knome: meeting?
<knome> charlie-tca, sorry, we have guests :/
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> Thanks for trying anyway
<mr_pouit> g2g now, thanks charlie-tca for chairing ;-)
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> It will take me a while to get the minutes together, but it was a good meeting
<micahg> \o/
<micahg> charlie-tca: I need to talk to persia about an arm installer though, idk if the normal ISO procedure will work
<charlie-tca> hm, okay
<charlie-tca> I really have my mis-givings about another image. But, if you are willing to test it, I can approve it.
<micahg> well, I personally think it'll run better than Ubuntu on ARM since you have less RAM to work with
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I think that is true
<charlie-tca> let persia know I will approve it if needed. 
<cody-somerville> I think Persia wants me to test an imx51 kernel or something
<charlie-tca> Will you test the images if we build them, too?
<ochosi> anyone around?
<ochosi> brb
<charlie-tca> nope, we all left for the day ;-)
<charlie-tca> oh, maybe that isn't too far off, either.
<charlie-tca> Long time accessibility in Xfce for stickey keys finally got fixed
<charlie-tca> s/accessibility/ accessibility bug
<charlie-tca> hm, I use irc names in the meeting minutes, should I be using real names?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-25
<charlie-tca> ochosi: article looks good to me. Thanks
<knome> 23:30  AlanBell: knome: the IS team should have been working on upgrading the canonical wiki this week, and in theory they might announce some downtime on the main wiki for the upgrade in the next week or two.
<TheSheep> finally moin 1.9.3?
<knome> i suppose so, but hey...
<knome> 23:30  AlanBell: believe it when you see it
<ochosi> TheSheep: a new moin-version would mean more speed?
<knome> ochosi, yes, apparently
<knome> at least that's what they are saying
<ochosi> TheSheep: btw, i wrote an article for UWN or the blog (not sure where they wanna publish it in the end) and that's pretty much continuing the nice discussion we had about project management and feedback
<TheSheep> ochosi: more importantly, security fixes
<ochosi> right
<TheSheep> ochosi: that's great, I will be sure to read it and comment :)
<ochosi> TheSheep: thanks
<ochosi> pleia2: i read something in the meeting minutes from yesterday about an account for me, could you fill me in what that's exactly about?
<ochosi> pleia2: drupal == xubuntu.org?
<mr_pouit> daily not oversized (+3Mb)
<mr_pouit> hal isn't installed by default anymore now that we removed exaile
<mr_pouit> there's a thunderbird-globalmenu pulled in though, but it's only useful to unity :(
<ochosi> pleia2, knome: the front-page of elementaryos is a good example of a nice slideshow: http://elementaryos.org/
<knome> ochosi, yeah, and if js is turned off, the page looks like shit
<ochosi> knome: well, i'm not saying we have to take this implementation
<ochosi> it's just a nice idea of letting the apps scroll by
<Sysi> i think people like more when things don't move automatically but when they press button
<ochosi> not sure, i think xfce.org also does a good job at that
<ochosi> (and it's moving by default)
<ochosi> same for the slideshow in the installer
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: did we get the shutdown bug fixed ? I can not reliably reproduce it
<charlie-tca> bug 711571
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711571 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu Natty) "Xfce Shutdown/Restart doesn't work (logout instead)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711571
<mr_pouit> nope, it's not fixed afaik
<mr_pouit> I can reproduce it from time to time
<mr_pouit> not reliably either :/
<charlie-tca> thanks
<charlie-tca> That seems to be our "bad bug"
<knome> charlie-tca, what do you want to have in the slideshow?
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<ochosi> knome and me thought we could work on updating the slideshow
<charlie-tca> in a meeting right now, 
<charlie-tca> give me a few minutes, okay?
<knome> sure
<ochosi> sure, it's not likely we'll finish anything by then ;)
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> what do I want? 
<charlie-tca> I want a shot of the desktop, with the new theme and launcher panel
<charlie-tca> or something like that?
<charlie-tca> any chance of a screen shot of gmusicbrowser?
<charlie-tca> the web chat screen is great! People seem to really like that capability
<charlie-tca> and other than that, I am wide open
<charlie-tca> What do you want in there? You are both very good at that kind of "people like this" thing.
<knome> we were thinking of adding some introductions to default apps
<knome> and generally, cutting down the slide text length
<charlie-tca> too much reading?
<knome> comparing to the ubuntu slides, the xubuntu slides feel like novels
<charlie-tca> do it, I think. 
<knome> too many things going on, really
<knome> try to focus on descriptive screenshots
<charlie-tca> Like I said, you both are good at that kind of stuff. I could screw it up good :-)
<charlie-tca> If you need me to get screenshots, let me know
<knome> ochosi has a natty installation, so not necessarily
<charlie-tca> but his is more like the real installs... mine is highly modified ;-)
<knome> so better use his shots then :P
<charlie-tca> well, then
<knome> we still need to get the new menu icon in before taking the final shot of the desktop
<charlie-tca> yup
<knome> probably won't add one big shot of the whole desktop, but little pieces or so
<charlie-tca> that works when done right
<knome> the user will see the desktop anyway
<charlie-tca> a shot of firefox 4 would be good, too. It is quite different than what the users are seeing in maverick, isn't it?
<knome> bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<knome> ./test-slideshow.sh
<knome> ^ charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> isn't there a ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu?
<knome> a bit at least, i think
<knome> the xubuntu slideshow is in the same repository
<knome> try it
<knome> you get to choose which slideshow you want to test
<ochosi> hm, i think that ff4 still has the menubar on by default
<charlie-tca> Oh, I get to see it every time I test a11y in Ubuntu
<ochosi> only if you change that it looks different (but i might be wrong)
<charlie-tca> I don't pay much attention to it
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> the ubuntu slideshow is also in that repo
<knome> mm
<ochosi> actually all ubiquity slideshows are there
<knome> and kubuntu
<knome> yup
<charlie-tca> ff4 has the menubar, but they moved the tab bar and toolbars enough to make it hard to learn
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> should check out the default again at some point
<ochosi> even my natty ff is modified
<charlie-tca> You can not click a tab to bookmark it anymore, either. You have to right-click the page itself
<charlie-tca> and they removed the bottom stuff, like when updating a page or going to a link.
<charlie-tca> well, maybe just screwed that up too
<charlie-tca> I will be happy with a slideshow that is current for Natty. 
<charlie-tca> Now I am going test the images again. I heard they are broken again today
<ochosi> ok, we'll try to update it good :)
<charlie-tca> ochosi, knome : Thank you for doing the slideshow!
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> it really would be a shame if the natty slideshow would still be so out-of-date as mavericks...
<ochosi> charlie-tca: just wanted to quickly ask again: where will that article of mine be published? UWN? xubuntu.org?
<charlie-tca> um, xubuntu.org at least
<charlie-tca> You want to push it into UWN? I can do that, too
<ochosi> dunno, thought UWN was the goal originally
<ochosi> but i don't mind
<ochosi> just not sure anyone will read it if it's only on xubuntu.org :)
<charlie-tca> I forget things. Let's push it to them, too!
<charlie-tca> I will forward it to UWN
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> thanks
<charlie-tca> Thank you for reminding of these things
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> btw, could we add the workspace-switcher to the next meeting's agenda?
<charlie-tca> we discussed it this week.
<charlie-tca> We really want it, you know
<ochosi> yeah, i got that from reading the meeting log
<ochosi> but there are several ways to do it
<charlie-tca> but, if you want to discuss it again... I can add it
<ochosi> not just the panel-plugin
<ochosi> i think it's nicer to check the alternatives too
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I mean, I use 8 workspaces, myself
<ochosi> e.g. in the window-buttons plugin we could activate "show windows from all workspaces"
<ochosi> and "group windows" by default
<charlie-tca> that's not the same, though
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> but it serves a similar purpose in a way
<charlie-tca> I purposely separate my applications into different windows, I don't wnat them all shown at once
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> how many workspaces do we have by default?
<charlie-tca> 4
<ochosi> hm, maybe we could reduce that to 2
<knome> +1
<ochosi> then the ws-switcher would also look nicer :)
<charlie-tca> That is a feature
<ochosi> ok
<knome> bigger number of default workspaces isn't a feature imo
<Sysi> i think there's only two?
<ochosi> too bad
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu took theirs down to 2, and now they are back up to 4 or 8
<ochosi> ok, maybe we should check how many we really have
<ochosi> and then check whether it's a feature to reduce them
<ochosi> and then discuss it
<ochosi> ?
<Sysi> btw it's kinda interesting to have compositing enabled by default and then hide contents of window when moving
<charlie-tca> I honestly dislike that thing that says you get two workspaces by default, and we will hide them from you so you won't know they are even there
<charlie-tca> Oh, by the way...
<ochosi> charlie-tca: my suggestion was just to make it 2 ws and add the switcher to the panel
<charlie-tca> If we can't get the shutdown/restart to gdm thing fixed, we need to look at reverting to the action buttons instead of session menu
<ochosi> Sysi: not all of those decisions were taken consciously, i think the moving-windows thing was already present in maverick
<charlie-tca> The shutdown and restart thing seems to be directly related to session menu, somehow
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, the fact that the session-menu isn't working so well is frustrating (since the plugin seems so simple in a way)
<charlie-tca> +1
<charlie-tca> Even I could learn to not hate it :-)
<ochosi> :)
<Sysi> ochosi: iÃ¤m not really against it' it just feels weird
<ochosi> Sysi: in fact i've been using that combination always :)
<Sysi> i can't see windows well enough without content in them..
<Sysi> and on small screen you need to know exactly how much to move
<charlie-tca> Well, that takes care of my power outage today
<charlie-tca> ochosi: the other issue I am getting when using session menu is that my computer does not restart correctly. Xfwm4 does not restart when using it. 
<ochosi> strange
<charlie-tca> Using Action Buttons, I can restart and xfwm4 restart when I login
<ochosi> haven't experienced that yet
<charlie-tca> It is every boot here
<ochosi> restart sometimes just gets me back to gdm
<charlie-tca> yeah, mine won't do that most of the time, but then I have to manually start xfwm4 
<charlie-tca> and increase the workspaces back to 8
<ochosi> hmm, that sucks
<ochosi> mr_pouit: to what chances will the session-menu be fixed soon?
<charlie-tca> yeah, I think these power fluxes suck worse
<ochosi> k, g2g now and will be away over the weekend!
<ochosi> have a nice weekend everyone
 * ochosi waves
<charlie-tca> Have a good weekend!
<ochosi> thanks
<knome> whoever is moderating the xubuntu-devel list, you can unapprove the mail from pasi@alshain.fi - i sent the same mail from the correct account so it got posted to the list immediately
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-26
<mr_pouit> hey
<knome> hello
<knome> ;)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: what's the problem with session-menu?
<knome> mr_pouit, he said he's going to be away for the weekend
<mr_pouit> the "restart-doesn't-work-but-returns-to-gdm" also occurs with the action buttons anyway
<mr_pouit> ah, ok
<knome> did you test tew new slideshow?
<knome> s/tew/the/
<mr_pouit> knome: ah, no, can you give me a link?
<knome> mr_pouit,  i can't. read the mailing list.
<knome> ;]
<mr_pouit> oki
<mr_pouit> ah, python-webkit and zenity are needed
<mr_pouit> mh, some texts are too long for my netbook small screen
<knome> argh
<knome> what's wrong with you people
<knome> ;)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> ochosi: yes, two workspaces with the switcher will work, sorry for the delay in that
<charlie-tca> All images fail to install today, both Ubuntu and Xubuntu. 
<charlie-tca> We are putting pidgin in the panel on the live cd for Natty?
<charlie-tca> IF we are, we need to look at changing the stupid icon. It looks like an envelope, which is commonly thought of as email.
<j1mc> hi all
<j1mc> the menus seem to have disappeared from my natty app windows.
<j1mc> i assume this is related to the unity work?
<charlie-tca> not in xubuntu, 
<charlie-tca> Mine all here
<charlie-tca> Hello, j1mc 
<j1mc> hm, weird.
<j1mc> hi charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> If it is Ubuntu, it might be unity
<charlie-tca> but it should not affect Xubuntu
<j1mc> no, i'm in xubuntu
<charlie-tca> is xfsettingsd and xfce4-settings-helper both running?
<j1mc> not sure i'll have to check
<j1mc> brb
<j1mc> charlie-tca: ok - it must've just been something in an old config file that or something
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> it is hard to track down. I had to remove the "session menu" and add the "action buttons" to the panel to get a clean restart
<charlie-tca> Otherwise, xfwm4 won't start at login
 * j1mc nods
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-27
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mark76> Hey Charlie
<charlie-tca> Hello, mark76 
<mark76> How's 11.04 coming alomng?
<mark76> along
<mark76> Damn it
<charlie-tca> Looking good so far. I think it is going to a good release. 
<charlie-tca> Of course, that depends on getting another image that works, too. They have been broken all week
<mark76> Oh dear
<charlie-tca> It's okay, both Ubuntu and xubuntu have not worked this week, so at least we are equal, right/
<mark76> Fair enough
<ochosi> charlie-tca, mr_pouit: about the session-menu, i never had problems with xfwm4 not starting, the only problem is with not restarting but getting back to gdm. so maybe this should be discussed (again)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i tried adding the workspace switcher to the lower/launcher panel, it doesn't look bad there, you could give it a try
<charlie-tca> Any issue is a problem for the user. Using the Action button, the issue goes away.
<ochosi> did you do a clean natty install in a vm lately and were still able to reproduce the xfwm-issue?
<charlie-tca> I already have a separate panel on the bottom for the switcher. 
<charlie-tca> Have you tried doing a new install lately? I have not been able to get the images to install for a week
<ochosi> right, no, i haven't. i still have an alpha2 with all updates installed
<ochosi> everything works afaik
<charlie-tca> Whether it is xfwm4 or not properly restarting / shutdown, it is still an issue. The user has the right to expect the system to do what he tells it
<charlie-tca> If using the session menu means a user can not restart correctly, it is a problem. If using the action buttons resolves that, it is a good fix.
<ochosi> but mr_pouit said earlier that the restart problem is not a session-menu problem but a general one
<ochosi> 11:02  mr_pouit$ the "restart-doesn't-work-but-returns-to-gdm" also occurs with the action buttons anyway
<charlie-tca> I did an upgrade to natty before alpha1, but that is not the issue. the issue the system is not working as expected with the session menu
<charlie-tca> I have never had the action button return me to gdm
<charlie-tca> after removing the session menu
<charlie-tca> It will do it if the session menu is installed
<charlie-tca> I would like to have both you and mr_pouit remove the session menu, install the action buttons, and then see if the issue with restart going to gdm goes away
<ochosi> k, good point. will try that later
<charlie-tca> thank you
<ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, i finished the xfwm4-theme for natty on friday, i think mr_pouit will upload it soon
<charlie-tca> Really? Terrific! 
<ochosi> now there's basically a few minor things to be done in greybird, but i'd say it's about 95% finished and polished
<charlie-tca> good deal! we got alpha3 coming, and I promised we would have the themes ready in it
<charlie-tca> At least I didn't lie to 'em again
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> again? :)
<ochosi> k, will now try to get nvidia proprietary drivers from the x-swat working in natty
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> charlie-tca: it seems nvidia-current from the repos should now work with the xserver1.10 (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=159990)
<charlie-tca> hm, I think I have the new gallium with 3d, but I might be wrong, too
<ochosi> confirmed, the proprietary nvidia-driver works in natty
<ochosi> yay! finally power-management for my graphics card again
<charlie-tca> Yay!
<charlie-tca> that is a win-win deal
<Sysi> yay, update fixed my mouse on natty
<charlie-tca> which issue, and how?
<Sysi> touchpad didn't work at all, usb mouse did
<charlie-tca> That's bad
<charlie-tca> Update fixed it?
<Sysi> yup
<Sysi> i've all the time had errors about locale, how general is that?
<charlie-tca> I saw someone working on those issues.
<charlie-tca> those are pretty common errors
<charlie-tca> I don't have a ggod fix for the locale errors
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-20
<micahg> ochosi: what ever happened with making an "upstream" release of elementary-xfce-dark so Ubuntu Studio could benefit as well?
<ochosi> micahg: hm, it has already been packaged by mr_pouit (in xubuntu-icon-theme), someone from studio said they would discuss it with their PL whether that's a problem
<micahg> ScottL: ^^
<ochosi> micahg: sorry i didn't follow that up more, i kinda expected someone else to take it from there
<micahg> ochosi: no problem, sounds like you did your part, thanks
<ochosi> k, yw
<ochosi> gah, there is such an annoying bug in the icons btw
<ochosi> this is how the power-icon should look like: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02202012-021032am.php
<micahg> all my icons are dark
<ochosi> what do you mean?
<ochosi> and this is what it currently looks like: http://imagebin.org/199742
<ochosi> if you look close enough, the second one is scaled down a bit
<micahg> well, except for the sound indicator, all my icons are dark on a dark background
<ochosi> in precise?
<ochosi> or in oneiric?
<micahg> precise
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> what icon-theme are you using?
<micahg> elementary Xubuntu dark which I guess is the wrong one
<ochosi> right, that's not really maintained anymore
<ochosi> it's deprecated
<ochosi> elementary-xfce-dark should work
<micahg> ah, Xfce dark is much better :)
<ochosi> good to hear :)
<ochosi> that is what i've been working on
<micahg> well, except for the xfce4-mixer icon
<ochosi> rly?
<ochosi> what's up with that?
<micahg> it's dark instead of white
<ochosi> strange, mr_pouit didn't mention that
<ScottL> thanks micahg, ochosi 
 * micahg figures his nm-applet icon issue will be fixed now as well
<micahg> ScottL: so, you'd like to use the xfce dark icon theme?
<ochosi> ScottL: np, let us know whether the package being xubuntu-icon-theme is a problem. it has mainly remained like that for convenience i think
<ochosi> actually there are two versions, one for dark, one for bright panels
<ScottL> micahg, yes, the elementary-xfce-dark (i think) is the one that looks good to me
<ScottL> ochosi, you mean there are two versions within the same package?
<ochosi> micahg: what would you recommend for my vm? daily image or alpha?
<micahg> ochosi: daily
<ochosi> ScottL: yes, but the -dark version is just an addon
<ScottL> micahg, i guess we (ubuntustudio) should still have a ubuntustudio-icon-theme pacakge that relies on xubuntu-icon-theme but also has the /pixmap directory
<micahg> ScottL: ah, so, that's all that's in that package is the 3 icon themes, elementary xubuntu, elementary xfce, and elementary xfce dark
<ochosi> ScottL: it's like that: elementary-xfce contains everything. elementary-xfce-dark is an addon that inherits elementary-xfce but replaces the panel-icons with white ones
<ochosi> micahg: actually elementary xubuntu should be dropped
<ochosi> micahg: not sure why that's still there
<micahg> ScottL: no pixmaps in this package
<ochosi> micahg: maybe it should be replaced by a symlink to elementary-xfce-dark for upgrades
<micahg> ochosi: can you file a bug to track this?
<ScottL> micahg, how should i get the ubuntu studio logo then onto a system?
 * ScottL is afk a bit, taking son to town for a bit, should be back in about one hour
<micahg> ScottL: that's what the xubuntu-artwork package does, don't know if you want to copy that idea, "icon theme" for that seems counterintuitive
<ochosi> micahg: against xubuntu-artwork?
<micahg> yeah
<ScottL> micahg, should the menu icon then be part of the ubuntustudio-menu package?
<micahg> ScottL: sounds reasonable
 * micahg also steps away for a few minutes
<ochosi> micahg: ok, reported bug and subscribed you
<micahg> ochosi: thanks
<ScottL> micahg, ochosi:  can you give me an overview of what i need to do for the icons?
<ScottL> e.g. include elementary-xfce-dark in seeds or have ubuntustudio-default-settings depend on them
<ScottL> should i just get rid of the ubuntustudio-icon-theme?
<ScottL> note that i basically want to use the xubuntu theme and icons the way they are, i do not want to add anything different
<ScottL> with the only exception that i want the ubuntu studio icon in a few places in lieu of the xubuntu xfce icon
<ochosi> micahg: can't reproduce your problem with the mixer in my precise vm
<ochosi> micahg: the icon is there and it's white
<ochosi> ScottL: i don't really have any packaging expertise, i guess it's best if you talk to mr_pouit about that
<ochosi> i'm off, night everyone!
<Unit193> Adios.
<micahg> ochosi: ok, maybe a left over, I"ll have to dig later
<micahg> ScottL: so, those pixmaps are in the artwork package, so you could Ubuntu Studio could just recommend/depend on xubuntu-icon-theme
<ScottL> micahg, but i need to replace the xubuntu pixmaps with ubuntu studio ones
<ScottL> /usr/share/pixmaps has xubuntu specific images of the xfce logo
<micahg> ScottL: yes, those are shipping in xubuntu-artwork (a separate package), so you can ship them in ubuntustudio-menu as you suggested
<ScottL> okay, so i can make something like us-default-settings or us-look depend on xubuntu-icon-theme and then add the us specific pixmaps to the us-menu package
<ScottL> i can do that :)
<micahg> ScottL: you can just seed the icon package (recommends or depends depending on how important it is to US)
<ScottL> good point
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/q_planning/xubuntu-q.pdf updated
<astraljava> Heh, I can't remember when I have been using FF the last time, but so far the current release on oneiric seems to beat Chrome pretty much hands down. I had no idea!
<mr_pouit> ochosi_: I'll do s/inherits=elementary-xfce/inherits=elementary-xfce-dark/ instead I think
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey there
<mr_pouit> (oh, btw, i'm not an xfce dev, only an active contributor)
<knome> hey mr_pouit :)
<mr_pouit> hey :p
<knome> madnick, hey?
<leo-unglaub> hi ochosi
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: just saw that you're a fellow austrian :)
<j1mc> ochosi: i'm going to be in vienna from wednesday afternoon through saturday morning. are you near vienna?
<ochosi> j1mc: i'm _in_ vienna :)
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: well...i am from germany....but i am living in vienna 
<leo-unglaub> thats a big difference *g*
<j1mc> whoa, cool. we should meet up. i'm staying at a hotel near the city center.
<knome> j1mc, woot??
<ochosi> j1mc: but we'd have to meet on wednesday, from thursday on i'll be on holidays (switzerland)
<j1mc> ochosi: ok
<j1mc> knome: yes, woot
<ochosi> j1mc: well or thursday breakfast... :)
<knome> j1mc, so when are you going to be in helsinki??
<ochosi> j1mc: where exactly are you at?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hehe
<j1mc> one sec...
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: anyhoo, if you're up to help out with xubuntu, that would be most welcome
<knome> yeppers
<j1mc> knome & ochosi - i just wrote up a blog post: http://j1m.net
<ochosi> oh right you're in brno!
<ochosi> nice
<knome> j1mc, i noticed, i'm subscribed via rss
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: sure
<knome> j1mc, though didn't read it since wasn't too interesting thing, sorry ;(
<leo-unglaub> i am working currently on some things
<j1mc> knome: no worries - it's not for you, per se.
<leo-unglaub> but, i am just my 4 day in xfce, i take some time lerning the workflow...
<knome> j1mc, i know ;]
<leo-unglaub> for an old gnome2 user it's not always the same
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: are you in vienna?
 * knome organizes an xfce-xubuntu-hackfest someday in helsinki
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: yup
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: where exactly? 1170?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: 1160
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: why, are you trying to triangulate my ip? :D
<ochosi> j1mc: that video looks pretty impressive. btw are the scrollbars native gtk3.4 or what is that?
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: lol, just a lucky guess.... i am living in 1170 and working in 1160 :)
<knome> ochosi, maybe he's an old perv
<knome> leo-unglaub, you should meet one day with ochosi so he could convince you to start working on xubuntu
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: heh, right. well i saw that on your website
<j1mc> ochosi: i'll be at this hotel: http://www.austrotel.at/en/hotel_vienna_viennart/the_hotel.html
<j1mc> i don't know if it is a good hotel, but it looks nice in the pictures
<leo-unglaub> you googled me? *g*
<knome> j1mc, well their site doesn't work without js... so they must suck!!1
<j1mc> :/
<knome> i mean, that's hilarious
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: well that was easy enough, you use your real-name everywhere :)
<leo-unglaub> :)
<knome> why don't the hotels hire somebody who can do unobtrusive photo-slideshows
<knome> eg. without js, it's a static image
<ochosi> j1mc: oh, right, i dunno that hotel â but that's not a huge surprise, i live here ;)
<j1mc> sorry, knome, i'll be sure to complain to the manager.
<j1mc> :)
<knome> j1mc, please do!
<knome> j1mc, also, tell them my contact information
<j1mc> ok :)
<ochosi> j1mc: but yes, i know where it is and i'm physically close to that place now (less than 1km)
<j1mc> ah, excellent
<j1mc> i'll need to check and see when i arrive. pm me your email address, if you don't mind.
<knome> ochosi, can you convince j1mc too to work (again) on xubuntu?
<j1mc> knome: he can try :)
<knome> i'm sure he can.
<mr_pouit> (with enough rhum and a new baseball bat)
<ochosi> haha
<knome> mr_pouit, yes
 * ochosi leaves to buy a baseball bat
<knome> ochosi, great, i can cover some of the expenses
<leo-unglaub> is Daniel Morales here=
<leo-unglaub> i have a question about this thunar share á¹lugin
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: don't think so, you might wanna ask in #xfce-dev, maybe someone there knows him
<ochosi> is he the original developer or maintainer?
<leo-unglaub> yes, he is
<mr_pouit> he's the original developer, but I think he's been inactive for ~18 months
<ochosi> k
<mr_pouit> ochosi: fyi, ambiance doesn't show this box for menu icons, so I guess the fix is somewhere in it :[
<mr_pouit> (same for radiance)
<knome> hmm
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, i thought so
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i just started working in my precise vm 24hrs ago and have been @work since the morning, so not much time yet
<mr_pouit> what, 86400 seconds and still no fix? ;-)
<ochosi> well i know you have high expectations from me (and yes, it's totally justified, i _am_ a genius)
<mr_pouit> indeed
<ochosi> no, seriously, i'm not sure i can manage it this week
<ochosi> but i still have hope
<ochosi> if it's not too complicated or elaborate
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> ochosi, our own 7-year old genius
<micahg> mr_pouit: is it worth asking to get lightdm-gtk-greeter uploaded to experimental, or could we upload from the VCS?
<mr_pouit> feel free to ask corsac, but I'm not sure he'll agree
<mr_pouit> Anyway, uploading from the svn should be fine.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-21
<ochosi> morning everyone
<baizon> hi hi
<micahg> ochosi: are those 2 bugs it for backports for gmb?
<ochosi> micahg: yes
<ochosi> micahg: sorry, haven't gotten round to adding the third test-case for the sound-menu
<micahg> ok, I guess you're leaving me to do the debdiffs?
<ochosi> no, i thought i'd do that after adding the third bug
<micahg> oh, so, there is a 3rd bug
<ochosi> but if you wanna do the debdiffs, i'm not holding you back :)
<ochosi> thing is that i have to get a hold of the developer again
<ochosi> i'm not 100% sure what each commit does and what all the problems with mpris2 were
<micahg> ochosi: about the overlay scrollbars bug, will this break on non-overlay scrollbar enabled systems?  I was going to upload to natty and oneiric since they have the same upstream version
<ochosi> i'm using the version from my ppa mostly (which is pretty much git)
<ochosi> no, it won't break that. i'm not using overlay scrollbars and the patches didn't break my system/gmusicbrowser
<micahg> s/upstream/Ubuntu/
<ochosi> yeah, natty and oneiric would be cool
<micahg> okay, both patches look sane, I'll open tasks for you
<ochosi> micahg: would you wanna wait for the third bugreport for the backport or do these two first?
<ochosi> hi j1mc 
<micahg> doesn't matter to me, it's just a week in -proposed in between uploads
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> in that case i'd say let's go forward with these two first
<ochosi> because i'll be on holidays from thursday on for a week
<ochosi> and really off irc
<micahg> I'll be piloting for the next half hour or so if you want to create the debdiffs
<ochosi> ok, i'll first have to read up on how to really do that :p
<ochosi> micahg: quick question, i'm generally following this guide now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff, do i have to add stuff to the changelog as well for the debdiff?
<micahg> yes
<micahg> you'll need a new entry versioned properly (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging)
<ochosi> ok, who do i put as maintainer/committer? you? upstream?
<micahg> you go on the maintainer line in debian/changelog as it's your upload
<ochosi> ok
<micahg> BTW, that's set with the DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME env vars
<ochosi> thanks, i'm not really into the packaging stuff yet :)
<ochosi> micahg: hm, put me just in debian/changelog or change the maintainer stuff in debian/control also?
<micahg> ochosi: run update-maintainer for debian/control
<ochosi> k
<j1mc> hey ochosi 
<j1mc> i got your email. lunch tomorrow sounds good.
<astraljava> Who's buying? I'm in. :D
<j1mc> :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> ok, good
<ochosi> micahg: thanks. one more question. so the correct version number to use would be 1.1.7-2ubuntu1, since it's a backported fix? or would it rather be 1.1.7-3 ?
<micahg> nope
<micahg> did you see the security wiki page?
<ochosi> yes, read, maybe not 100% understood
<micahg> natty and oneiric have the same version :)
<ochosi> errm, so which version number is it then? :)
<micahg> 2.0-2 in two releases         2.0-2ubuntu0.5.04.1 and 2.0-2ubuntu0.5.10.1 is the hint line
<ochosi> so it'd have to be 2.0-2ubuntu0.11.04.1 and 2.0-2ubuntu0.11.10.1 ?
<micahg> well, if you've got the right idea, you just need to use the gmb Debian version instead of the example :)
<micahg> s/if//
<ochosi> but in debian/changelog i can only put one number
<ochosi> yup, 1.1.7-2ubuntu0.11.04.1
<micahg> yep, looks good
<ochosi> currently there's "unstable" (i guess from debian), do we keep that?
<micahg> you'll do one for natty, then change the debdiff to reflect oneiric s/11.04/11.10/ s/natty/oneiric/
<ochosi> oh ok, so two debdiffs
<micahg> you targer natty-proposed
<micahg> and oneiric-proposed
<ochosi> ok, i think i get it now
<ochosi> meh: update-maintainer: Error: Unsupported additional parameters specified: debian/control
<ochosi> micahg: ^
<micahg> weird
<micahg> wfm
<micahg> did you add a new changelog entry yet?
<ochosi> yes
<micahg> did you modify anything in debian/control?
<ochosi> i'm pretty sure i didn't
<ochosi> but i can quickly get a clean version of it
<ochosi> no, still the same error
<micahg> can you pastebin the file?
<micahg> are you on precise?
<ochosi> no, oneiric
<micahg> hmm, still should work :)
<ochosi> but i started with the changelog/debdiff for natty
<ochosi> so do you want changelog or control?
<micahg> control
<ochosi> micahg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/851139/
<micahg> nothing unusual
<ochosi> it's the clean file from the package anyway
<ochosi> i'd be surprised if that were borked
<ochosi> wanna see the changelog?
<ochosi> maybe there's a problem there
<micahg> sure, just | head should be fine
<micahg> as long as it includes the maintainer line
<ochosi> micahg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/851142/
<mr_pouit> simply move manually Maintainer: to XSBC-Original-Maintainer:, and set the new maintainer as Xubuntu Developers <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com> :P
<mr_pouit> hello
<ochosi> hey lionel
<micahg> wfm
<micahg> wfm in an oneiric chroot :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> micahg: lost in chroot? :)
<micahg> ochosi: no, just various issues
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-22
<ochosi> just a quick note to everyone who might be interested: i'll be away from tomorrow until the 2nd of march. "away" as in: not on irc or on the net in general.
<baizon> why arent you using the ubuntu boot theme for lightdm? :)
<mr_pouit> what do you mean?
<baizon> i mean the "log in" screen 
<baizon> log in screen theme for lightdm
<baizon> it was in the alpha version of xubuntu 11.10
<baizon> for a time and then changed back 
<mr_pouit> right now the lightdm login screen should use the new precise wallpaper, but we haven't updated the plymouth theme yet
<baizon> mr_pouit: yes i saw it today
<baizon> http://www.linuxnov.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/LightDM-Ubuntu-11-10-Oneiric-Ocelot-screenshot.jpg
<baizon> thats what i mean
<mr_pouit> yeah, this is the unity greeter
<baizon> ah ok
<mr_pouit> (and it needs gnome-settings-daemon, which we try to avoid)
<baizon> aaaa ok
<baizon> didnt know about that dependencie
<Kokopilli> Hey, I'm a college student new to programming and such and wanted to get hands on experience and since I use xbuntu would like to contribute somehow to the project. Would anyone be able to tell me how to get started? I'm in my first year of C++ and eager to learn
<pleia2> Kokopilli: the testing procedures are discussed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Procedures
<pleia2> once some devs pop up they can help you find other tasks, you may also want to check out our wiki, it has links to our roadmap and ways to get involved https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu
<pleia2> feature freeze happened last week, so we're now in bug fixing mode for this release :)
<Kokopilli> Okay, Thanks ^_^ I'll get reading
<pleia2> Kokopilli: xubuntu has a small development team, so please try to be patient when waiting for replies
<Kokopilli> Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks pleia2
<micahg_mobile> we don't have a meeting today, right?
<pleia2> I don't think so
<pleia2> knome?
<knome> pleia2, nope :)
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: i think an artwork-section on the xubuntu-website might be a good idea. i mean basically we have something like that @shimmerproject.org but i think xubuntu.org would be a good place for something more official than the messy wiki
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah, we have to go through both the wiki and the website to make some decisions about what should go where
<ochosi> pleia2: agreed. i was just thinking about this yesterday, when a possible future contributor asked where he could find the "xubuntu artwork"
<ochosi> pleia2: not talking about a fully fledged presentation, just the basics
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah, right now they have to look under marketing
<pleia2> "Marketing, Promotion and Artwork"
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/marketing/
<pleia2> not sure how up to date it is though :)
<ochosi> yeah, but that's more like a link-selection, if you know what i mean :)
<pleia2> yeah
<ochosi> shouldn't be too hard to spice that up a little
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> do you want to draft up some ideas?
<ochosi> i'd love to, but it's getting kinda late and i have to finish off a few greybird tweaks first
<ochosi> just wanted to tell this to someone so that i don't forget :)
<pleia2> ok :)
<ochosi> so feel free to remind me about that
<pleia2> will do
<ochosi> also: i guess the gtk-themes still have priority for the moment
<ochosi> the website can theoretically wait till shortly after the release
<ochosi> (it waited a long time before anyway :) )
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-23
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm going to try to upload lightdm-gtk-greeter from pkg-xfce SVN to REVU
<micahg> I'm also updating GIMP to 2.6.12
<knome> pleia2, ochosi: well yeah, the contribute -pages definitely need love...
<ochosi> yeah, it was just an idea, i don't have time to take care of that now, but maybe in the beginning of the q cycle
<knome> yeah, in the Q cycle it is whatsoever
<ochosi> k, i'm leaving now, have a nice week everyone!
<knome> mm, you too
<olbi> hello guys, is there a concept to adding copy-paste on desktop? there is some patch which add it, but I can't install it
<mr_pouit> olbi: I included the patches in precise
<olbi> mr_pouit, cool :) I will test it soon :]
<mr_pouit> micahg: thanks, feel free to ping me if you want me to look at it :)
<mr_pouit> (for precise users/testers, nm-applet in both the systray and the indicator area is a bug caused by yesterday's nm-applet upload, Bug #829673 and Bug #938380)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829673 in Ubuntu network, Bluetooth, keyboard menus "FFE: No easy way to turn the network menu on/off" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829673
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938380 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Network-manager icon displayed twice in panel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938380
<Riddell> hi, I'm the beta tech release manager
<Riddell> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html  has lightdm-gtk-greeter which is your responsibility
<Riddell> I'm going to delete it, please package the new upstream if you need it
<mr_pouit> Riddell: afaik micahg is working on it
<Riddell> shnell shnell!  8 hours to go
 * Riddell does hope that doesn't mean something racist in german
<mr_pouit> knome: ochosi: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-February/034800.html
<mr_pouit> and another (random?) sync of abiword apparently
<mr_pouit> everything is going so well today =]
 * micahg will go yell at someone later (although as long as we're on svn versions, crack makes sense
<micahg> mr_pouit: how do I build a package out of pkg-xfce?
<mr_pouit> svn-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa
<mr_pouit> it should work
<mr_pouit> (put the orig in ../tarballs if it's not present)
<micahg> so I have to get the .orig from somewhere first, ok
<knome> mr_pouit, re: unity greeter badges, which files should i provide you?
<mr_pouit> yep, there's only the debian dir in svn
<mr_pouit> knome: I don't know, something that looks nice at 22x22 and identifies the xubuntu session (so I guess the xubuntu logo)
<knome> do we have an xfce session too?
<mr_pouit> (anyway, that only affects the unity greeter, so it's not really critical ;-)
<mr_pouit> yep
<knome> well, it's not too hard either
<knome> so might just take the little extra work
<mr_pouit> thanks
<knome> mr_pouit, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_greeter/greeter_badges_preview.png
<knome> mr_pouit, the png badges are also at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_greeter/
<mr_pouit> knome: I'll look later, sorry
<knome> mr_pouit, np :P
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-24
<pleia2> knome: have some time tomorrow? we should talk marketing stuffs, I want to get a blog post out asking for help with tshirt designs and things and hopefully have some zazzle/cafepress/whatever shop up by release time
<knome> ermm, possible
<knome> what time were you thinking?
<pleia2> evening your time probably
<pleia2> I wake up at 16:00 UTC :)
<pleia2> but I can get up earlier
<knome> hmmh. well, something like 21UTC might work..
<pleia2> sounds good
<knome> but i'm not sure
<knome> i'll try to be around at that time :)
<pleia2> ok, I'll ping you again tomorrow and we can figure something out :)
<pleia2> I'll be around this weekend too (lots of house projects to do)
<knome> right'o
<knome> sounds good
<Unit193> Anything I should be helping with?
<pleia2> Unit193: you can get a sneak peak! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products
<Unit193> ochosi: I know you're gone and don't care at this point, but: https://github.com/daz4126/Blackbird/commits/blue and https://github.com/daz4126/Blackbird-Icons but they also aren't ready yet either.
<micahg> mr_pouit: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=9397 if you get to it before I upload
<mr_pouit> hey
<mr_pouit> looking at it
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, brb, I should probably run it first :)
<mr_pouit> micahg: you need to add the update-alternatives thing from 1.0.6-0ubuntu4
<mr_pouit> (otherwise flavours can't override the config with their own without ugly dpkg-divert)
<micahg> mr_pouit: oh? let me see
<micahg> :(, ok, good catch :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I don't see that in the 1.0.6-0ubuntu4 changelog
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you have time to fix it?
 * micahg needs sleep
<mr_pouit> yeah, sorry, I wasn't clear: that's the last version to ship these changes, they have been added during oneiric
<mr_pouit> yeah, I can do it
<mr_pouit> (but I won't be able to upload)
<micahg> ok, make sure you grab the latest source off of revu, can you push there when you're done?  with your upload, I can review it when I get up and upload
<micahg> s/upload/approval/
<mr_pouit> ok
<mr_pouit> bah, that's useless as in
<mr_pouit> I'm rebasing it on the last lightm source that shipped the gtk greeter
<mr_pouit> there are too many changes in ubuntu
<mr_pouit> *as is
<mr_pouit> micahg: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/lightdm-gtk-greeter_1.1.4-0ubuntu1.dsc <<< here's one that should work (but it's not based on pkg-xfce anymore). Feel free to adapt it, I won't have more time for it today.
<mr_pouit> (i'm away from my key, so i can't upload to revu either)
<mr_pouit> bbl
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks :)
<pleia2> knome: oh hey, nudge me wgen you're around to talk marketing
<micahg> knome: madnick: is xubuntu not part of the release meeting anymore (no e-mail, no meeting presence)
 * micahg wonders if xubuntu is planning on having a beta 1
<knome> micahg, we are...
<knome> pleia2, unfortunately today doesn't work out. i need to go to sleep. maybe tomorrow at about the same time? :)
<knome> ->
<pleia2> knome: sounds good :)
<pleia2> have a good night!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-25
<knome> hey pleia2 
<pleia2> hey knome!
<knome> i'm at my eeepc, so i can chat but not much else :)
<pleia2> hehe ok
<pleia2> so I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products
<pleia2> moved the stickers there, did a super basic t-shirt design
<knome> yeah, i noticed the shirt design
<pleia2> so I'm thinking we do a call for more t-shirt designs, and maybe ask for more suggestions for stuff to offer
<knome> i think something basic is what we want
<knome> i'd like one with quite small logo on the front
<knome> and maybe nothing in the back
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> unless we come up with a cool motto or so, but that could be printed on the front too
<knome> did you see the unity-greeter icons?
<pleia2> yep
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_greeter/greeter_badges_preview.png for logs
<knome> do you like the mouse head?
<pleia2> yeah, much better than squishing the whole mouse in to 22x22
<knome> yep
<knome> maybe we could use that on the shirt designs too
<knome> and other places that needs a clear shape and not something cut
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> what about a blue shirt with white mouse?
<pleia2> can you add the mouse head SVG to the Artwork page?
<knome> will do when i'm at my desktop
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> when I do the blog post about shirts I'll point people to the Artwork page so they start with the right stuff
<knome> sure
<knome> i will check everything is fine three
<knome> *there
<knome> and what about moving that to our website?
<pleia2> I haven't fully thought about that yet, I'm wondering if we want to keep artwork-proposed on the wiki so anyone can upload, and have official released artwork on the website
<knome> yeah, that
<knome> i was referring to the official material
<knome> we could try ro gather some banners and stuff there too
<pleia2> yeah, that would be good
<pleia2> do you have any opinions vendor-wise? I'm in the US so I think zazzle, cafepress
<knome> well, not really
<knome> i'd like to keep the expenses as small as possible
<pleia2> they both ship internationally and mostly their stuff doesn't suck
<knome> meaning the shipping+handling
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> with only one ordered product too
<pleia2> ok, well I'll blog asking people what stuff they want to see, and that can help us narrow down a vendor
<knome> yeah, that would be good
<knome> do we have rights to do this
<knome> i mean, vs. canonical
<pleia2> and I can start drafting an official released artwork page for you and ochosi to review
<pleia2> I don't think it'll be a problem, they don't sell xubuntu stuff (and I doubt they ever will, they had trouble moving their kubuntu stuff)
<knome> mmh, but still
<knome> should we check?
<knome> just to have an official ack
<knome> i mean, i don't want to go "oops"
<pleia2> yeah, I see your point
<pleia2> and I am going to go with not making profit on these (these sites let you add $1 or whatever to the cost of items to make money)
<knome> yeah, definitely
<knome> but still, on the (c) of the logos and stuff
<knome> trademarks and so
<pleia2> who does own the copyright of the locos?
<knome> i don't know. it's possible i do, because i created that
<pleia2> yeah, I think you do
<knome> but the trademark... i don't know
<knome> and what about the xfce mouse?
<knome> i could check with xfce too that it's okay
<pleia2> hmm, good question about the mouse
<pleia2> ok, want me to email the canonical trademarks (I'll cc you) and you contact xfce?
<knome> well, it's modified in the xubuntu logo
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> yep, sounds good
<pleia2> great
<knome> could you send me an email telling me i need to email xfce about the mouse?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> i mean, just something with a title to remind
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> that's pretty much all I had :) I am still working on text for the little fliers, I'll let you know when I have a draft that needs are love
<knome> hehe, sure
<pleia2> s/are/art
<knome> sounds like a plan
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> doh, trademarks doesn't use an email address anymore, they have a web form
<knome> heh
<pleia2> "Thank you for contacting us. Every email we receive is read and handled by a person from the Trademarks Team."
<pleia2> hehe, woo, a real person!
<knome> omg
<knome> that's more than we could have ever asked for
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-26
<micahg> if we drop quadrapassel, we can drop clutter from the images
 * micahg would actually prefer to do this for the LTS
<micahg> mr_pouit: knome ^^ thoughts
<Unit193> I'd love to drop that as it always crashes.
<micahg> Unit193: that's a bug that should be fixed regardless :)
<Unit193> Meh, the devs don't care about older stuff, so.....
<micahg> also, we're the only image with clutter on it (Ubuntu refused to take it into main for the LTS)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-21
<pleia2> knome: about?
<pleia2> knome: what magazine exactly is Sonny from?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-22
<Unit193> pleia2: Broken link on http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ for the 12.04.1 alternate torrents, we're at .2 now.  (I don't have permission to edit, as far as I can tell)
<ochosi> Unit193: i'll take a quick look
<Unit193> Coolio.
<ochosi> Unit193: hm, i edited the page but it seems it either takes a while to update or i only have access to the staging site
<Unit193> I'm not in a hurry.
<ochosi> Unit193: appears to be fixed now
<Unit193> Great.
<ochosi> micahg, mr_pouit: are we currently still shipping the unico-engine by default? (i would think so, because bluebird uses it until 12.10)
<ochosi> micahg, mr_pouit: satya has started porting bluebird from unico to the default engine and i might finish it before the freeze, so feel free to drop it ;)
<ochosi> micahg, mr_pouit: just to clear that up: it's already working and bug-free, it just has some visual inconsistencies between gtk2 and gtk3 that i want to tackle
<pleia2> ochosi: there is a lot of caching happening on our site, so that's pretty common
<pleia2> knomity knome knome
<pleia2> ready to send this magazine email, once I know what magazine it's for ;)
<knome> pleia2, hehe
<knome> pleia2, i'd imagine http://linuxidentity.com/ based on the email he's sending
<ochosi> pleia2: right, good to know
<knome> i fixed the .2 links earlier
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> me too
<knome> haha
<ochosi> i really thought fugly themes would disappear with gtk3 as a kinda "cleansing through deprecation", but there i was wrong obviously: http://browse.deviantart.com/art/Daylight-GTK-3-Theme-355808515
<knome> hah
<genii-around> I hesitate to look in case it's something high-contrast which will sear my eyeballs
<Unit193> Erum...
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-23
<jbradvi9> I want to ask somebody about xubuntu live cd default login name and password because after a certain period 'xubuntu' logs me off and then shows up the login screen and in that case i must restart the machine.....
<holstein> jbradvi9: i thought it was ubuntu.. you can look in the terminal or tty and see the username.. and i thougth the user pass was either blank, or just ubuntu
<jbradvi9> i tried all cobinations with blank,ubuntu,xubuntu,root but no success
<holstein> jbradvi9: 12.10?
<jbradvi9> Quantal Quetzal 12.10
<bluesabre> alrighty, catfish-experimental has been merged back into trunk
<bluesabre> :)
<len-1304> bluesabre, Great!, I already added it to UbuntuStudio seeds. I'll be doing an ISO install this week sometime after I clear a disk to use :)
<len-1304> Thank you for your work on this.
<bluesabre> I'll do the version release a little later today once launchpad has caught back up with me
<bluesabre> thanks len-1304!
<len-1304> As happens I will be loading xubuntu on one of my machines as well, so I can test xubuntu quantel at the same time when I do.
<bluesabre> last call for testing https://code.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/trunk before I release later today/early tomorrow :)
<bluesabre> and translators, https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-24
<bluesabre> catfish 0.6 released, mr_pouit or micahg, want to help me get it into the raring repos?  :-)
<len-1304> bluesabre,  Yahoo!
<ochosi> Bing!
<bluesabre> dork
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> heh
<len-dt> Wow, Xubuntu has changed a lot. The last 13.04 I downloaded plus zsync against that was at 40%... a 60% difference
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-17
<AussieDownUnder> This be the appropriate place for talking about the trusty alpha?
<pleia2> depends on what you want to talk about :) we're prepping for the beta now
<ochosi> for everyone running trusty already with light-locker: lderan has written a settings-UI that can get some first testing feedback (mailing-list announcement will follow sometime tomorrow)
<ochosi> you can grab it here: https://code.launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/light-locker-settings/trunk
<ochosi> just go to the light-locker-settings folder (after running bzr branch lp:light-locker-settings) and run "python light-locker-settings.py"
<ochosi> feel free to report bugs or ping me and/or lderan 
<sanchopanza> on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware page, i'm trying to add my pastebin link to the temporary table. i'm logged in, but the page says its immutable. 
<knome> sanchopanza, we just did some testing on that
<knome> sanchopanza, do you have a launchpad account?
<knome> sanchopanza, or in other words, when you are logging in to the wiki, does the ubuntu one page tell the wiki is requesting your *username* ?
<sanchopanza> i have a launchpad account: https://launchpad.net/~ted-m-cox
<knome> ok, cool
<knome> then it's probably some caching issue... try ctrl+shift+R on that page
<knome> (and welcome!)
<knome> Unit193, so, did you have experience on adding services to pastebinit?
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> I'm not here.
<knome> you are
<knome> don't hide from me
<Unit193> Oh, you're right.
<Unit193> knome: What service?
<knome> don't know yet
<Unit193> 0_o
<knome> i need to have a chat with you some day
<knome> but good to know you know how to do it
<Unit193> Well...
<sanchopanza> tried ctrl+shift+R, the page is still immutable. hmmm..
<Unit193> Getting called into the principal's office again. :(
<knome> sanchopanza, i know this sounds stupid, but can you log out and in again?
<knome> Unit193, lol
<knome> Unit193, i'll PM quickly
<sanchopanza> logged out, logged back in with ubuntu one. page still immutable.
<knome> hmm.
<knome> now that i think of it, there might be some kind of protection to stop new users from editing
<knome> i have no way to check that though.
<knome> sanchopanza, i can edit the page for you though.
<sanchopanza> k. Hardware: Acer Aspire One A0725, netbook. http://pastebin.com/hxGBqtDs
<knome> sanchopanza, done
<sanchopanza> sweet. knome, jjfrv8 sent me the bzr tutorial chat. it's been very helpful!
<knome> sanchopanza, good to hear :)
<knome> anyway, i got to go to bed now
<knome> see you later, and don't be afraid to ask for help if you need any
<sanchopanza> thanks again!
<knome> no problem, and now -->
<AussieDownUnder> 14.04 is a go on my machine
<Unit193> micahg: Hello.  xubuntu-community-wallpaper is uploaded.
<Unit193> !info xubuntu-community-wallpaper trusty
<ubottu> Package xubuntu-community-wallpaper does not exist in trusty
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-community-artwork
<Unit193> Silly ubottu.
<micahg> ubottu is delayed on picking up packages
<ubottu> micahg: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Unit193> Silly Unit193, wallpaper != wallpapers.
<Unit193> Yes, but my stupid.
<micahg> I see you found another victim^Wvolunteer
<Unit193> Thanks for taking a look at those.
<micahg> that should do it for those, I"ll give it a few minutes and then generate the seed upload
<Unit193> micahg: Oh, xfce4-panel finally had a 4.11 release, right after we got a git snapshot in (minus one nice fix.)  So that'll be nice.
<micahg> ok, that'll have to be another night
<Unit193> Sure, just letting you know, Jackson already has it in queue.
<micahg> ok, so the meta will basically remove support for almost everything on ppc64el, I think I should try again tomorrow night
<micahg> the dailies should have the changes
<micahg> (though with a few other packages as well)
<Unit193> Thanks.  Should be another one soon to fix shipping gtk2 indicators.
<micahg> ooh, looking forwards
<micahg> too tired
 * micahg -> sleep
<Unit193> Sure.
<Unit193> Good night.
<micahg> you too
<Unit193> (Still have to wait on a live-build. :/) Thanks.
<elfy> ochosi: light-locker settings thing - is that going to get in - do I need to worry about the test tracker 
<ochosi> elfy: yes, i really hope it's going to get in
<ochosi> but it's just about to be finished in it's first stage, i hope we can do the release tonight, then packaging, uploading...
<ochosi> will be a close deal
<elfy> ochosi: ok - well just keep me up to date - though tbh lderan should do that ;)
<ochosi> hehe, indeed
<elfy> I did grab it and have a quick look - not got time atm to use it though
<ochosi> ok, no worries
<ochosi> it'll also get more testing from us
<ochosi> i just thought i'd inform everyone that it's there now that it's nearing completion of stage1
 * Unit193 broke it. :P
 * ochosi fixed it
<ochosi> micahg: i guess it's too late for this one now: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty_gtk3-indicators/+merge/206667
<ochosi> ah, forgot about the -> sleep
<brainwash_> ali1234: any thoughts regarding the current status of bug 1232804 ?
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Improve "login greeter -> desktop" transition in Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<brainwash_> we got almost zero test feedback
<brainwash_> so I suggest moving it to T+1
<jjfrv8> knome, are we still sprinting today? If so, I might not be ready until about 14:15 or so.
<jjfrv8> bbiab
<jjfrv8> I'm back
<jjfrv8> hey, slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> hi jjfrv8 
<slickymaster-job> i saw in the logs that both you knome were pretty busy this weekend
<jjfrv8> did he ask you about working on the slideshow today or tomorrow?
<slickymaster-job> i haven't spoke with him yet jjfrv8 
<slickymaster-job> after a weekend with a terrible toothache, I spent this morning at the dentist
<jjfrv8> ah, man, that doesn't sound like fun.
<slickymaster-job> yeah :P
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> sorry to hear slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> thanks ochosi 
<jjfrv8> ochosi, saw your post about the versioned docs :)
<slickymaster-job> I think I'm still drooling a bit (at work)
<ochosi> yeah, unfortunately it's not going to work as i hoped :/
<jjfrv8> oh?
<ochosi> the versioned docs are supported now, but libxfce4ui hasn't been released
<ochosi> cause currently, the components only send the "desktop version"
<ochosi> which is still set to 4.10 in xubuntu
<slickymaster-job> yeah, I saw it on the logs
<ochosi> maybe we can also bump that, cause if there are no 4.12 docs, it falls back to 4.10 anyway
<slickymaster-job> agree
 * ochosi isn't sure how though..
<jjfrv8> do you want us to be doing anything on them in the meantime to get ready?
<ochosi> i'll try to talk to someone to see whether we can bump the desktop version number in xubuntu
<ochosi> if we can, we should make the docs 4.12 only
<ochosi> (currently they're mixed)
<ochosi> and then i can push them to the right page
<ochosi> in fact, if you want you can even do that now
<ochosi> and i push them upstream
<ochosi> that can never hurt
<jjfrv8> I had uploaded some screenshots of multi-monitor but they didn't have the version with the infobar. I think I might have seen that in the current version though?
<ochosi> yeah, i did the screenshots
<ochosi> slickymaster-job was persistent enough to make me do it ;)
<jjfrv8> oh, I hadn't seen them
<slickymaster-job> jjfrv8: and ochosi was diligent and helpful enough to do it promptly  
<ochosi> haha, "promptly" is a bit too kind maybe ;)
<ochosi> thanks for poking me with the long stick, good that this part is finalized too
<elfy> and hi here too ToZ :)
<knome> jjfrv8, slickymaster-job: yeah, sorry, wasn't able to make 14UTC :/
<elfy> knome: when you have 5 minutes :)
<knome> now
<slickymaster-job> hey knome 
<knome> slickymaster-job, what's up?
<slickymaster-job> recovering from a nightmare weekend and a morning appointment at the dentist :P
<knome> jjfrv8, FWIW, the slideshow screenshot you pasted looked good
<jjfrv8> good deal. do you still want to do any work on it today?
<knome> i have a headache, so maybe not work hard on it, but i can chat about it
<jjfrv8> sure, did you have any other slides in mind? For any of the other new stuff?
<slickymaster-job> I'll be off in about half an hour to take my kid to his tennis lesson
<slickymaster-job> can we postponed to this night?
<knome> jjfrv8, not sure. i would like to try to get away from the application-centric slides though
<jjfrv8> as for the one I drafted, do you want me to finalize it? It needs some tweaking, obviously?
<knome> maybe some visual stuff
<knome> if you have any text-related improvements, do those
<knome> i'll take care of the visual side
<knome> you can do a merge proposal as usual
<jjfrv8> for the text-related stuff, I was just thinking of the spacing at the bottom, above the "Where?" part.
 * knome thinks that's a visual issue :)
<jjfrv8> ah
<knome> i'll probably make the screenshots part a bit smaller
<knome> so the text will fit in better as is
<jjfrv8> sounds good
<knome> i'm not completely sure on the graphics idea on that slide
<knome> but we probably need to know what slides we have
<knome> then think of a good way to make the graphics look a bit more vibrant than just screenshot, screenshot, screenshot...
<elfy> pleia2 would say pink 
<jjfrv8> now you're getting beyond my area of expertise - such as it is :/
<knome> works for me if it's a good idea :P
<knome> jjfrv8, i can take care of that as well :)
<elfy> ochosi: would light-locker not working in a live environment be normal? 
<elfy> if it is I need to fiddle with the testcase 
<brainwash_> how do you know it's not working?
<elfy> because I tried ;)
<elfy> tries to do something then it just returns to the desktop
<brainwash_> elfy: I guess the same thing happens when you run "dm-tool lock" or?
<elfy> nope that works
<brainwash_> how do you trigger light-locker?
<elfy> from the action button - with the lock screen button, how else would someone do it ;)
<brainwash_> keyboard shortcut :P
<elfy> that is all besides the point - the point being what I asked in the first place ;)
<elfy> because if it is normal behaviour then all tests will fail from a vm 
<brainwash_> indeed
<brainwash_> I see no reason why it shouldn't work in a live environment
<brainwash_> other than bad configuration
 * elfy neither - hence the question :p
<brainwash_> ok, lets wait for an answer then
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: did you start the light-locker process? (or make sure it's running)
<ochosi> since it's just been added to the seed, i'm not sure whether that's already part of dailies
<ochosi> so it wasn't launched by default yet in live sessions
<brainwash_> ochosi: should we also copy the new parameter descriptions? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/data/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
<brainwash_> -> https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/greeter-conf
<brainwash_> show-language-selector is now obsolete
<Unit193> ochosi: It's started on boot.
<Unit193> elfy: I booted the live iso, then called light-locker-command -l  to lock, and it worked.  Did you perhaps do something differently?
<Unit193> Ah, xflock won't work because xscreensaver is running and that has priority over lighty.
<elfy> ok - so it's just not all set up properly yet - that's all I needed to know :)
<Unit193> (When xflock4 was patched, it wasn't added as an alternate dep to xfce4-session, so both xubuntu-desktop and xfce4-session would pull it in.)
<Unit193> elfy: You can still call  light-locker-command -l  directly. :P
<elfy> yes - but I'm after having the testcase as it would be if you didn't have to muck about 
<elfy> which is just using it :)
<brainwash_> Unit193: will xscreensaver get automatically removed when people upgrade to 14.04?
<Unit193> It's on the daily image now even.
<brainwash_> maybe we should let xflock4 check for light-locker first, because it's the new default
<jjfrv8> Unit193, I just got it :D
<Unit193> Got it?
<jjfrv8> You were referring to my RedmondXP WM theme
<Unit193> Haha!  Yes, yes I was. :P
<jjfrv8> I'm not slow or anything, am I?
 * Unit193 didn't say anything!
<Unit193> http://unit193.ninth.su/xplike.png Done something like that.
<jjfrv8> :)
<elfy> lderan ochosi - had a quick check of light-locker-settings earlier - set the blank screen to 1 minute, it didn't seem to change from the 10 
<ochosi> elfy: did you hit apply after changing the value?
<ochosi> elfy: and did you check the timeout with "xset q | grep timeout" ?
<elfy> timeout:  60    cycle:  600
<elfy> and yes I hit apply - if I open it again - it is set to 1 minute
<ochosi> 60 = 1min
<ochosi> "set the blank screen to 1 minute, it didn't seem to change from the 10"
<ochosi> so it's fine?
<elfy> if I set blank screen to 1 minute - should it not do that when locked?
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> sorry, that's a question i don't get
<Unit193> With that set, shouldn't it blank after one minute when locked?
<ochosi> sry, gotta go now, hopefully someone else can help you out or you're still around when i get back
<ochosi> when locked?
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/294014
<elfy> I'm off too 
<ochosi> elfy: 
<ochosi> lock after screensaver is disabled for you
<ochosi> so why/how should it lock?
<ochosi> anyway, i'm confused
<ochosi> and i gotta go
<ochosi> bbl
<elfy> ok - so this is not anything to do with the screen blanking when screen is locked?
<elfy> I'll look in the morning 
<elfy> night all
<Unit193> ochosi: How I understand it, call  light-locker-command -l, wait a minute, screen isn't set to blank.
<lderan> Unit193, the top slider controls when the screensaver will kick in. then lightlocker will lock depending if its set to or not.
<brainwash_> lderan: light-locker-settings disables light-locker by writing "Exec=" to the desktop file?
<Unit193> Hidden=true might be better, no?
<brainwash_> exactly
<brainwash_> and -settings should be able to kill light-locker and/or execute the .desktop file, restarting the session to apply changes seems to be overkill
<brainwash_> but I like what I see, maybe I can contribute too :)
<lderan> \o/
<lderan> brainwash_, i will check with ochosi about the blank exec= override the default light-locker autostart .desktop file
<brainwash_> using Hidden= would make it compatible with the settings manager (session and startup)
<lderan> will make it do :)
<lderan> so*
<knome> +1 for Hidden=
<brainwash_> thanks
<Unit193> knome!
<knome> Unit193!
<lderan> knome & Unit193!
<knome> lderan!
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> knome: I changed it to an appendix, happy?
<knome> Unit193, nnnniice
<Unit193> Nope, you still won't like it: https://unit193.net/xubuntu-testing/desktop-guide/  :P
<knome> it's better like that
<knome> need to reconsider the style for "Behind the scenes" (maybe a header?) but otherwise good
<Unit193> F5
<knome> looks better
<knome> now reconsider the settings manager style :P
<Unit193> Well, it's a footnote, not background stuff at all, hardly needs to be seperated from the main list.
<Unit193> Also, did you want to add anymore?
<knome> i would probably add a "how to check dependencies for a package" section
<knome> and i would still consider the formatting for the first table
<knome> but you can leave that to me
<Unit193> Sure, I'll leave the "How to check deps" and formatting to you. :D
<knome> bah
<slickymaster> hey knome 
<knome> hello slickymaster 
<slickymaster> saw in the logs that you and jjfrv8 were working on the slideshow
<knome> only very slightly
<slickymaster> anything I can do?
<knome> if you have ideas how to improve the slideshow, sure
<knome> basically, i'd like a more "vibrant" slideshow
<knome> and not so appliation-centric
<knome> +c
<slickymaster> without any kind of markting speech
<slickymaster> marketing ^^
<slickymaster> through out the entire slideshow?
<knome> yep
<knome> because we can expect the user to be ready to test xubuntu at that point
<knome> and we should show them the best sides
<slickymaster> hm I see what you're after
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-marketing-with-startubuntu-flyer/
<pleia2> put it on the social medias too
<slickymaster> hey pleia2 o/
<pleia2> hi there slickymaster :)
<slickymaster> i see I have to translate it into portguese
<slickymaster> portuguese  
<pleia2> slickymaster: someone did, but they never uploaded it to spreadubuntu and I can't give attribution :] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/Activities#Xubuntu_Flyer
<pleia2> so I haven't linked it, if you want to do it again and upload it to SU that'd be lovely
<pleia2> no idea where it came from, looks like someone just shared the random ubuntuone link directly with someone on the startubuntu team
<slickymaster> how do I go about tranlating it pleia2?
<slickymaster> is there a file somewhere to be downloaded?
<slickymaster> over at http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer-us-letter I only see a pdf, a png and a svg file
<pleia2> slickymaster: svg is what you want, that's the source file
<pleia2> can edit in inkscape, then export to png and pdf
<pleia2> then upload all three
<slickymaster> I no, nevermind me 
<pleia2> ok :)
<slickymaster> I must still be quite numb from the dentist early this morning
<Unit193> knome: Happy now?
<knome> slickymaster, make sure you ahve the font 'open sans' installed
<slickymaster> as a matter of fact, I don't have it in my laptop
<slickymaster> I'll have to work on it tommorrow at my box over at work
<knome> Unit193, not really.. but you an leave it to me ;)
<knome> +c
<Unit193> Bleh, sounds like a plan.
<knome> i need to replace my keyboard some day
<Unit193> (I sorted the list this time.)
<knome> i see
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/WSlRVNMHHIQpWSE2r4vr - http://paste.openstack.org/show/iU3bfiPifiRSIZKVCtWq
<knome> Unit193, where's the merge proposal?
<Unit193> In /dev/null, it's not complete.
<knome> okay, i'll look at that when you have a MP incoming
<Unit193> ...So I'm supposed to merge something I know isn't right? :/
<knome> yep, that's fine.
<knome> i'll make sure i fix it before i merge it back to main
<Unit193> :/
<Unit193> Well, are you good with the name of the file at least?
<knome> looks fine
<Unit193> lp:~unit193/xubuntu-docs/new-appendix
<knome> ta,
<knome> i'll take a look at it tomorrow
<knome> (preparing to go to sleep soon)
<Unit193> Sure, taking a look at the linguas merge too?
<slickymaster> knome: before you go just one thing
<slickymaster> the name of the font is just 'open sans'?
<knome> slickymaster, yep?
<slickymaster> nothing else?
<knome> slickymaster, yep
<knome> Unit193, it'd good to me, but did you want some code review for it?
 * slickymaster has to deepen his knowledge on fonts
<Unit193> knome: Well, know who can do that?
<knome> Unit193, yes, but i don't have the answer to "who would do that"
<Unit193> Heh, that.
<knome> i can look at it if you want
<Unit193> desktop-guide/Makefile and scripts/translate.sh need the most, but second should be just fine.  I've got the second half staged already too.
<Unit193> Anyway, forget for now, ping tomorrow when you're in the mood for it. :P
<knome> Unit193, will do
<Unit193> (Second half does add a missed "exit" to translate.sh though.)
<knome> i'm off to bed. see you all tomorrow
<slickymaster> nighty knome 
<bluesabre> I was thinking that we did not include light-locker on 'live', only on 'desktop'
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-18
<Unit193> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/trusty-desktop-amd64.manifest
<bluesabre> ochosi, lderan: need any help with light-locker-settings?
<ochosi> ey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ey chosi
<ochosi> gotta catch up on some backlog
<ochosi> but i guess we need help with all that python packaging stuff
 * ochosi has no clue..
<ochosi> it's really strange, but writing python felt like *fun*
<ali1234> python just makes everything so easy
<ochosi> ok, so ppl are demanding setting "Hidden=True"
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, but the simplistic dialog that we did weighs 25mb, whereas the much more complex xfce4-powermanager-settings weighs around 13mb (according to task-manager)
<ochosi> bluesabre: are you still there?
<ochosi> hm, i also need to write another small patch for the scales
<bluesabre> yeah, got distracted
<ochosi> then the dialog should be okayish and pushable
<ochosi> (with the exception of those desktop-file settings that i know nothing about)
<bluesabre> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html
<bluesabre> I'll see about putting together a base build.py for it
 * ochosi doesn't wanna read specs...
<ali1234> you can use quickly to package up python stuff
<ochosi> ok, lemme quickly fix that screenoff-scale
<bluesabre> just tells about each of the keys
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> still, me=lazy
<ochosi> i've already spent quite some time on the dialog
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> and i wanna push it as is, even if that means ppl will have to restart the session to apply
<ochosi> finding out whether light-locker is installed/running just has too many variables to be a viable way for *me* to implement in the short time we have now
<ochosi> and usually you don't change your locker-settings all the time
<ochosi> and screensaver settings get applied immediately, so i think it's really ok
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll see about adding some of those things while I'm at it
<bluesabre> my wife is super late tonight, so I've got some time it seems
<ochosi> yeah, but for now nr1) is packaging
<ochosi> we need this uploaded before FF
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> and thats going to be super tight
<ochosi> btw, what's the status of lightdm-gtk-greeter?
<ochosi> i know
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1280670
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1280670 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Please merge lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.1-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> so don't waste any time now on improving things
<ochosi> i know there's an ample margin
<ochosi> but still
<ochosi> rewriting the code doesn't help
<ochosi> we can "sneak" that in as bugfix later
<ochosi> (as long as it's not a complete rewrite)
<bluesabre> nah
<bluesabre> should be about 10 lines
<bluesabre> its python
<bluesabre> python is magic
<ochosi> what do you want to add/change?
<bluesabre> detecting, restarting light-locker so you don't have to end your session to change a setting
<ochosi> bluesabre: are you sure you can do that *safely* ?
<ochosi> i sense a source for bugs-bugs-bugs
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> python-psutil
<ochosi> don't forget, this dialog is quite untested
<bluesabre> detects running processes, gets their pid, we can kill with that
<ochosi> also, i haven't removed the one switch
<ochosi> yeah, but killing isn't very nice...
<ochosi> the "lock after screensaver"-switch could be removed from the UI and the code
<bluesabre> we have enough morals with gpl :)
<ochosi> because the range below has a -1 value which == disabled
<ochosi> just not sure it's clear enough for ppl to understand
<ochosi> (as elfy's question today nicely illustrated)
<bluesabre> well, I'll get this set up tonight
<bluesabre> after we get it in ubuntu, I'll help set up translations for it as well
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> well for now, just getting this in is all i'm aiming for
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, you already have push-rights to the project
<bluesabre> yup, going to make good use of that :)
 * ochosi is afraid there won't be much of the current code left once bluesabre is done with it
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> at least for the part that i've written/changed, i'm pretty sure it's cumbersome
<ochosi> and it doesn't use xlib
 * bluesabre is afraid it will be a lot more readable when bluesabre is done with it
<ochosi> it's a bash-script wrapped in python :)
<ochosi> hey, you should've read it before i started making it more readable! :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: still around?
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> well, "sure" :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: what's up?
<bluesabre> pull the latest revision to make sure I didn't break anything
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'getoutput'
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/1631591/
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> one sec
<ochosi> no rush
<ochosi> better take a few mins more...
<bluesabre> yeah, fixing it for python2/3 compatability
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> but this app is *only* meant to be used in xubuntu trusty
<ochosi> we should find a better solution for T+1 anyway
<bluesabre> yeah, but good coding standards are a must :)
<ochosi> then you have to rewrite this, i guess
<ochosi> which was not the point
<bluesabre> not a rewrite, just a fix
<bluesabre> autopep8 fixed a lot of stuff for me
<bluesabre> ninja-ide points out problem parts of the code
<ochosi> no idea what all of that means :)
<Unit193> Script+program.
<ochosi> we really need testing especially for the dpms part that i added today
<ochosi> i suppose it works with most "recent" hardware (post-2000 stuff)
<ochosi> but i couldn't find a good assessment of the general situation
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, guess i gotta get some sleep now
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> can you stick around for 2ish minutes?
<ochosi> okay
<bluesabre> ochosi: try now
<ochosi> hm, we should probably switch from standby to suspend, after reading this: >http://webpages.charter.net/dperr/dpms.htm
<bluesabre> ochosi: does the latest revision work for you?
<ochosi> bluesabre: looks ok
<bluesabre> good
<ochosi> btw, if you really want to apply all settings immediately, you have to remove all the code for the infobar too
<ochosi> cause that's pretty superfluous then
<ochosi> and adjust the code for setting the apply-button sensitive
<bluesabre> but yeah, some packagers will complain if the code is not pep8 and all that
<ochosi> mhm, thanks!
<bluesabre> I'll set up the python builder tonight, so that when you release its easy to debianize
<ochosi> frankly, if you wanna do the release, feel free to
<ochosi> i think that it's no problem for neither lderan nor me
<ochosi> the core functionality is there
<ochosi> and priority is to get it into T
<ochosi> we can work towards improving it with bugfixes
<ochosi> or even FFe
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> I'll see if I get that far tonight
<ochosi> but having *someting* is what is important
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> yeah, if not, let's aim for tomorrow
<bluesabre> alrighty, dinner time
<ochosi> ok, gotta get some rest now
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<ochosi> bon appetit
<ochosi> and seeya bluesabre 
<ochosi> thanks a lot for your help on this!
<ochosi> last thing i wanted to mention
<ochosi> no idea what the desktop-file stuff does, so i haven't pushed anything for that yet
<ochosi> night everyone!
<bluesabre> ochosi: I've added a configure script, make file, and rearranged a bit
<bluesabre> also added native debian packaging
<bluesabre> find an interested party to add a new package to the repos, and also update the seed once more
<bluesabre> I'll take care of the release in the morning
<bluesabre> lderan: let me know if all the above is good for you as well
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, Unit193, ali1234: any concerns? https://code.launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/light-locker-settings/trunk
<bluesabre> heading to bed, back tomorrow, night folks!
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, You need a longer license in d/copyright if possible, you'll need a wnpp bug and -1 in the release eventually, no chance of a python3 port?
<Unit193> (Read further back, it's just for Trusty.)
<Noskcaj> oh
<Unit193> But d/copyright is still valid, so here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/ndgrlM3flUObEvK7q1Vl
<Unit193> bluesabre: ^
<sanchopanza> i just added my first merge request on launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted-m-cox/xubuntu-docs/command-line-edits/+merge/206854 . any feedback is appreciated: tedmcox@gmail.com. thanks!
<lderan> bluesabre, all good
<ochosi> are there folks here who have experience with DPMS?
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we should use suspend or standby in the light-locker-settings, this page suggests suspend (cause it saves more power): http://webpages.charter.net/dperr/dpms.htm
<ochosi> thanks for the poking, bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ochosi, lderan: https://launchpad.net/light-locker-settings/1.0/1.0.0
<bluesabre> I'll try to get the uploading part in order nexy
<bluesabre> *next
<ochosi> thanks a lot!
<lderan> ooo awesome
<bluesabre> ochosi, lderan: sound good? https://bugs.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings/+bug/1281536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1281536 in light-locker-settings "[needs-packaging] light-locker-settings" [Undecided,New]
<slickymaster-job> knome: ping
<bluesabre> ochosi: make me an admin of https://launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team so I can add PPAs
<slickymaster-job> you around?
<lderan> bluesabre, thank you very much for your help :)
<bluesabre> lderan: thanks for putting together the GUI :D
<bluesabre> ok, lightdm-gtk-greeter-1.8.1 has been uploaded to trusty
<bluesabre> \o/
<lderan> \o/
<slickymaster-job> knome, pleia2 there's a typo in the http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-marketing-with-startubuntu-flyer/
<slickymaster-job> at the end of the phrase of the "Try without installing!" box -> "... works with yout computer."
<ochosi> bluesabre: yay!
<ochosi> bluesabre, lderan: made both of you admins, hadn't noticed that before
<ochosi> so mostly xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork are missing now, right?
<ochosi> and a few tweaks to seed
<lderan> ochosi, thanks
<lderan> bluesabre, ochosi is to thank for the GUI :P my original GUI was not as nice or functional
 * ochosi bows
<brainwash> ochosi: hi
<ochosi> brainwash: what's up?
<brainwash> question time
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> did you read my question about the new xubuntu greeter.conf?
<brainwash> greeter 1.8 changed some parameter descriptions and made show-language-selector obsolete
<brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/greeter-conf
<brainwash> maybe we could include the changes and make it easier for the user to change the new settings :)
<ochosi> brainwash: do you even read my comments?
<ochosi> 12:45  ochosi$ so mostly xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork are missing now, right?
<ochosi> also, if you find something that we have to do, you can either propose a merge-request or at least put it down somewhere so ppl will remember to do it when the time is ther
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/+archive/stable
<bluesabre> when the package builds there, I'll finish the needs-packaging bug report
<bluesabre> its pretty funny, my wife complains about how many feature freezes there seem to be since we've been drilling down on releases lately :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: great stuff, hehe, yeah, this feature freeze did see us at the heights of productivity
<bluesabre> knome, want to join #ubuntu-moto and help to push for light-locker-settings?
<bluesabre> micahg ^
<brainwash_> knome: can you please mark bug 1193716 as wishlist, because it's a feature request
<ubottu> bug 1193716 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Xfce Power Manager does not override the screen saver timeout (X11 Screen Saver extension)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193716
<brainwash_> we can also drop it from the 14.04 blueprint, now that we ship light-locker + light-locker-settings
<ochosi> brainwash_: just a suggestion, but you could try to join the bugsquad, then you'd be able to edit bugs
<brainwash_> ochosi: I am a member of "Ubuntu BugSquad"
<brainwash_> but that's only a sub group I think
<ochosi> hm, strange, so you can't edit the bug?
<brainwash_> I cannot triage them, or set the status to wishlist
<brainwash_> or set the importance level
<ochosi> me neither
<brainwash_> that's https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol
<brainwash_> maybe I should apply for membership
<ali1234> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1y1eex/app_development_and_the_click_store_question/cfh2fs8
<knome> brainwash, importance to wishlist you mean?
<knome> actually no, we can't wishlist that bug... it's against xfce4-power-manager, and it still has that problem
<ochosi> ali1234: oh wow, that's a bit unexpected
<lderan> indeed
 * ochosi wonders whether this is just a rumor
<ali1234> it looks that way
<ali1234> i'm investigating...
<ochosi> jjfrv8, slickymaster-job: could one of you two create a 4.12-standalone version of the preferences page of the xfdesktop-docs?
<ochosi> i think it's mostly copy-paste, but i have to attend other matters atm and can't do it myself
<ochosi> i'd like to push things over to docs.xfce on the weekend
<ochosi> beh, slickymaster ^
<brainwash> knome: maybe you are right, but I understand it like this: the power manager was never able to alter the screensaver timeout, because an actual screensaver app like xscreensaver does it. adding this functionality -> feature request -> wishlist?
<brainwash> I'll try to apply for ubuntu bug control, so I can do it myself one day :)
<ochosi> knome: you around?
<ochosi> fwiw, i have a xfce-docs proposal (regarding xfdesktop, but theoretically also other components). so docs-ppl tell me when you're around
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: at your service
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: i think you didn't get a few previous lines, let me pastebin them for you...
<slickymaster-job> ok
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/1634127/
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: is it to be done in bluesabre's wiki?
<ochosi> yup
<slickymaster-job> I can start to work on it tomorrow, if there's no problems with that time frame
<slickymaster-job> the idea is to create it under the existing namespace, right?
<ochosi> yeah, in the staging wiki you can simply edit the existing page
<ochosi> i'll then push it over to docs.xfce.org/*/xfdesktop/4.12/
<slickymaster-job> okie dokie, let me just finish what I'm doing presently and I'll start it tomorrow
<ochosi> sure, absolutely!
<ochosi> thanks a lot
<slickymaster-job> np 
<ochosi> just ping me whenever you feel it's ready
<slickymaster-job> will do ochosi 
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> xnox: i presume you're really busy as FF is approaching, but if you happen to have a minute... https://bugs.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings/+bug/1281536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1281536 in light-locker-settings "[needs-packaging] light-locker-settings" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<knome> ochosi, am now
<slickymaster-job> hey knome 
<ochosi> knome: cool
<knome> for a bit at least..
<ochosi> so i have a suggestion how we can make use of upstream xfce's versioned docs
<knome> okay
<ochosi> currently, when you hit "help" in xfdesktop, you get to the 4.10 namespace
<ochosi> that's the DESKTOP_VERSION string that gets sent automatically
<slickymaster-job> knome: did you get to see what I pinged you about early this morning?
<knome> slickymaster-job, probably did...
<ochosi> since there is no specific 4.10 namespace currently, you'll fall back to the generic docs-page for xfdesktop
<slickymaster-job> knome: there's a typo in the http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-marketing-with-startubuntu-flyer/
<ochosi> so, what we can do is change the desktop-version-string in libxfce4util from 4.10 to 4.11
<knome> is the typo in the flyer or the article
<slickymaster-job> at the end of the firdt setence of the "Try without installing!" box -> "... works with yout computer."
<knome> ochosi, okay.... and? :)
<ochosi> since it's not wrong that we're shipping 4.11
<slickymaster-job> in the flyer
<knome> slickymaster-job, okay, noted
<knome> pleia2, ping
<ochosi> then i set up a 4.11 docs-page on docs.xfce.org and we're set
<knome> pleia2, please get that fixed ;)
<knome> ochosi, heh, okay
<slickymaster-job> when you finish with ochosi I have a question for you knome 
<ochosi> we can then also update the xfwm4-docs upstream and our users will get to the correct docs
<knome> slickymaster-job, just go ahead, i'm able to multitask
<ochosi> and all other apps will fall back to the 4.10 docs anyway
<ochosi> so there's no drawbck
<knome> ochosi, sounds fair
<ochosi> already talked to eric_the_idiot about it and he's fine with going ahead like this
<knome> yep
<knome> i'm not opposed to that change
<ochosi> so if you agree, i'll push the xfdesktop docs to 4.11 and then we only need to patch libxfce4util
<ochosi> it's actually bugfix
<slickymaster-job> ok, thing is that the translated text of the ubuntu and xubuntu boxes of the flyer are larger than the admissible size of said boxes 
<knome> slickymaster-job, are you sure you are using open sans?
<slickymaster-job> absolutely, and respecting the font sizes accordingly  
<knome> right
<knome> i can look at it if you want to send me the svg
<knome> and try to accommodate the layout for the larger stuff
<slickymaster-job> I lost your email :P
<knome> pasi@shimmerproject.org
<knome> knome@ubuntu.com works as well if you forget again
<slickymaster-job> i a minute
<slickymaster-job> :)
<ochosi> knome: ok, i'll set you as a reviewer once i've got the patch for libxfce4ui in a MR
<knome> ochosi, cheers
 * ochosi just feels it would be a terrible waste if users wouldn't get to see jjfrv8 and slickymaster-job's awesome xfdesktop docs
<knome> yep, agree
<slickymaster-job> knome: sent
<knome> slickymaster-job, wondering if the US letter size is a regular paper size in portugal? there was a A4-size as well...
<slickymaster-job> hmmm I downloaded the source file
<slickymaster-job> http://spreadubuntu.org/files/source/flyer_xp-to-xubuntu_A4.svg
<slickymaster-job> I supposed it was A4
<knome> well the file you sent me is _USletter
<slickymaster-job> that's odd
<knome> and the size looks like A4
<knome> err,
<knome> US letter
<knome> of course!
<knome> A4 would be taller but narrower
<slickymaster-job> I'll download  it again and see if the problem subsists 
<slickymaster-job> I'll ping if needed knome 
<slickymaster-job> tnaks anyway
<slickymaster-job> thanks ^^
<knome> sent back to you and pleia2 
<knome> (fixed version)
<slickymaster-job> you forgot the attachment knome 
<knome> hah
<knome> of course!
<knome> hmm
<knome> where did i save it
<knome> there
<knome> in /tmp :P
<slickymaster-job> but it isn't preferable to redo it in the correct paper size knome?
<knome> slickymaster-job, sure, but if somebody wanted it in US letter...
<knome> (and since that's done, why waste the work)
<slickymaster-job> ok, I'll get it done right away
<slickymaster-job> well, when you're right... you're right ;)
<knome> lol
<knome> Unit193, what's the required list of packages to be able to build xubuntu-docs again? see: ML
<pleia2> slave driver
<slickymaster-job> knome: the same issue happens also with the A4 size
<slickymaster-job> do you want me to email it to you so you can adjust it. Check also the "Try without Installing" and "Ready to Install" boxes because due to the size of the translated text it seems that they might be overlapping 
<pleia2> so where is the error on the marketing site?
<slickymaster-job> it's in the flyer pleia2 
<pleia2> ah ok
<slickymaster-job> pleia2: at the end of the firdt setence of the "Try without installing!" box -> "... works with yout computer."
<pleia2> I see
<slickymaster-job> pleia2: I saw the existent portuguese translation of the flyer and it has a few spelling mistakes
<slickymaster-job> seems like a Google translator job :p
<pleia2> hah, good to know
<slickymaster-job> I've got it already translated but there's a small issue with the boxes sizes that I want knome to fix
 * pleia2 nods
<slickymaster-job> the reason being that the translated text is bigger then the available boxes sixes
 * slickymaster-job is starting to believe that Portuguese is a very verbose language
<GridCube> or the translator is 
<elfy> >.>
<slickymaster-job> hmm rather not,
<slickymaster-job> do you know Fernando Pessoa, GridCube?
<GridCube> no
<knome> slickymaster-job, sure, just send it to me
<slickymaster-job> knome: sent
<slickymaster-job> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<slickymaster-job> pleia2: later on, after dinner, I'll upload the svg, pdf and png formats of the translated flyer to http://spreadubuntu.org/
<pleia2> slickymaster-job: yay :)
<slickymaster-job> knome: is there, in inkscape a tool similar to 'export as' in gimp?
<slickymaster-job> knome: nevermind, there's the 'Save as...' option
<ochosi> light-locker-settings PPA for those who want to test it: https://launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/+archive/stable
<ochosi> (trusty only, and it only makes sense if you have already removed xscreensaver and are using light-locker)
<elfy> it says "Can you really really trust lderan" :)
<lderan> "why yes, yes you can"
<elfy> ok
<lderan> :P
<lderan> *no, run for your lives!
<elfy> checking in vm now
 * ochosi hopes that blanking works in a vm
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> elfy: in case you don't want to wait for 1 minute, just try "xset s 10"
<elfy> doesn't appear to - I'll try it in the other hardware install later
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/294295 restart warning is not very easy to read
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> strange, shouldn't look like that
<ochosi> maybe too old version of greybird/shimmer-themes
<elfy> possibly
<ochosi> elfy: funny thing is, often ppl have reported bugs about the opposite problem (not being able to prevent the screen from blanking, because they didn't know how to set it)
<brainwash> oh, that screenshot (the desktop icons to be exactly) reminds me, that we should get a new point release of xfdesktop asap :)
<ochosi> there won't be one before FF
<ochosi> and it doesn't matter, as there are only bugfixes
<brainwash> sadly
<ochosi> also, greybird already tackles that
<brainwash> yes, it does change the grid layout
<brainwash> would be great to get a new version of xfdesktop for b1 to test all the recent fixes (many things have been fixed)
<Unit193> knome: docbook-xml, docbook-xsl, xsltproc, gnome-doc-utils
<elfy> ochosi: updated vm to current - same issue, shimmer-themes is 1.7.0-0ubuntu1
<ochosi> elfy: unthemed infobar?
<ochosi> or some other issue
<ochosi> this is what it's supposed to look like: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-18-201430.php
<elfy> no idea - that vm is a standard and updated install
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> ochosi: ok - it looks fine in the other install
<lderan> weirdness
<elfy> that sums up 'this' install ... 
<ochosi> semi-good to hear though
<elfy> ochosi: this one has had so much done to it I'm not surprised tbh, not so sure about the vm
<ochosi> Noskcaj: any progress on gmusicbrowser1.1.12?
<Unit193> It's in the queue.
<ochosi> oh cool
<ochosi> i hadn't noticed
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/gmusicbrowser/1.1.12/+merge/206589
<Noskcaj> in merge queue + in debian waiting for sponsor
<ochosi> nice, thanks Noskcaj 
<ochosi> bbl
<pleia2> slickymaster: spreadubuntu has slots for portugal and brazilian portugese, which is yours?
<Unit193> pt_PT IIRC.
<pleia2> I would assume so :)
<pleia2> I'll upload it as that and if I need to correct I will
<pleia2> http://spreadubuntu.org/en/node/983 & http://spreadubuntu.org/en/node/984 are up
<slickymaster> pleia2, Unit193 is right. Mine is pt_PT
<slickymaster> I'll upload the files in minutes
<slickymaster> pleia2: you around?
<knome> slickymaster, they are uploaded :P
<slickymaster> I'm getting a 404 error at http://spreadubuntu.org/en/content/node/add/material
<slickymaster> the pdf and png also knome ?
<knome> yep, i exported them for pleia2 and they should be up
<slickymaster> hmm thanks knome 
 * slickymaster thinks that knome is just buying time so slickymaster work on the ubiquity slidshow
<knome> we haven't been slacking off here while you were away anoying 'pane et circenses'
<knome> s/anoying/enjoying/
<knome> and panem
<slickymaster> whatie?
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
<slickymaster> I know the expression
<knome> lol
<slickymaster> I just don't get the why
<knome> i was just joking :)
<slickymaster> right
<knome> i was referring to us working hard when you were away ;)
<slickymaster> :) lol had to pick up my kid
<knome> well sure
 * ochosi will try to do at least one xubuntu-default-settings merge-request
<ochosi> tonight
<pleia2> slickymaster: they're up! added the links to http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/
<slickymaster> pleia2, thanks 
<slickymaster> knome: already told me that he took care of everything
<slickymaster> pleia2: just FWIW I getting a 404 error at http://spreadubuntu.org/en/content/node/add/material
<slickymaster> was ^^
<pleia2> slickymaster: are you logged in?
<slickymaster> yes
<pleia2> hm, where did you click to get there?
<pleia2> http://spreadubuntu.org/en/node/add/material is the "share" link
<slickymaster> the "Contribute" link in the home page
<slickymaster> well, it's up now
<pleia2> doh :)
<slickymaster> but it's not necessary to upload as knome alredy done it
<knome> nah, pleia2 did it!
<pleia2> knome made all the exported files though
<slickymaster> kudos for both of you ;)
<pleia2> and romanian! http://spreadubuntu.org/ro/material/poster/flyer-xpto-xubunturomanian
<knome> pleia2, how's the original flyer doing?
<slickymaster> btw pleia2, over at http://spreadubuntu.org/pt/material/poster/portuguese-startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer-a4 the poruguese flag icon isn't being displayed after the language
<pleia2> slickymaster: can you submit a bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/spreadubuntu
<slickymaster> ok, will do
<knome> slickymaster, flags aren't good symbols for languages anyway :P
<pleia2> knome: my desktop is in the middle of a reinstall (new drives, moved to raid1, woo) so I won't get all set up for a while
<pleia2> no inkscape + fonts + etc
<knome> pleia2, ah, that's fine
<knome> i thought something along the lines of "i quit"
<pleia2> if you can fix, I can upload changes, but
<pleia2> lol
<knome> pleia2, but i was meaning, the main startubuntu xp to * flyer
<pleia2> oh, I thought you meant the typo
<pleia2> original flyer is ignored
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> ours got all the sharing and translations, so I think it became the default
<knome> heh
<knome> so, a marketing project failed worse than we did?
<pleia2> I think it's just that mostly the team is made up of ubuntu people and not mint people so everyone prefered to share the all *ubuntu one :)
<pleia2> plus, who doesn't love xubuntu?
<knome> yeah... but weird thinking to include mint in the main one anyway then
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> they wanted to offer an alternative that had a more "classic" feel than unity
<pleia2> so, mate
<knome> mmh...
<ochosi> anyone around with a xubuntu vbox that hasnt been messed with much?
<ochosi> (i just want to know a default setting)
<Unit193> Well?
<ochosi> xfce4-power-manager/show-tray-icon
<ali1234> by default that key is not set at all
<ochosi> right, how does it behave then?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ochosi> that's actually what i need to know
<ochosi> just need to know whether we have to set it to "3" by default, so that the trayicon never shows
<ali1234> i don't see the tray icon
<ochosi> do you have a battery?
<ali1234> no
<knome> in vbox?
<ochosi> then that doesn't help
<ochosi> i'm afraid that the default behavior is to show the trayicon if there's a battery
<knome> what's the problem with that?
<ochosi> 2 battery icons in the panel?
<ochosi> indicator-power + xfpm-trayicon
<knome> ah
<ochosi> ali1234: finally changes that have benefits for !gnome-shell as well: http://worldofgnome.org/app-menus-fallback-became-just-amazing/
<ochosi> (although the title is a clear overstatement)
<brainwash> ochosi: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/settings/xfpm-settings.c#n1161
<brainwash> SHOW_ICON_WHEN_BATTERY_PRESENT is default
<ochosi> mhm, thought so
<ochosi> ok, then i'll include that setting in my next -default-settings MR
<slickymaster> pleia2: FIY bug 1281836
<ubottu> bug 1281836 in SpreadUbuntu "The Portuguese flag symbol isn't displayed at http://spreadubuntu.org/" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1281836
<pleia2> thanks
<slickymaster> np
<pleia2> hopefully someone will look at it :) they've responded to a couple of ones I've submitted, so hopefully
<pleia2> I would like to help them, but, you know, I'd do that in my free time?
<slickymaster> yeah, let's keep our fingers crossed
<knome> pleia2, no way, knome doesn't allow free time
<pleia2> truth
<slickymaster> of course, and time does feel like sand, splipping through our fingers
<knome> i haven't *felt* that
<slickymaster> bah, that's because you don'y go to the beach often enough ;)
<slickymaster> knome: do you have any idea how we can agitate bug 1185396 ober at debian?
<ubottu> bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185396
<ochosi> does anyone here feel like testing the new default panel layout?
<ochosi> (i mean the xml for it)
<slickymaster> unable to it now ochosi. But tomorrow, yes I'll be able to
<slickymaster> to do it ^^
<ochosi> sure, no problem
<brainwash> share it pls
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/1635510/
<ochosi> it should only contain the minimum list of settings
<ochosi> and don't expect anything from whiskermenu there
<ochosi> (cause that one uses an rc file to store the config)
<brainwash> very minimal
<ochosi> the question is whether it matches the spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Whiskermenu
<ochosi> or whether it misses anything
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-19
<ochosi> brainwash: so?
<brainwash> soon
<brainwash> have to download the iso and test it
<ochosi> ok, i thought you were already testing it
<ochosi> or you backup your existing panel-config and the try this one?
<ochosi> humm, already found a mistake in it
<brainwash> give me sec, this system here runs without xfce
<ochosi> corrected: http://dpaste.com/1635548/
<ochosi> sure
<brainwash> ah, panel count 1
<ochosi> mhm
<brainwash> ochosi: works here
<ochosi> ok, thanks
<ochosi> just need to test one more thing, then that's ready
<ochosi> humm, why doesn't the appmenu indicator show up...
<ochosi> hm, so that indicator is still called libappmenu.so for now
<ochosi> so not converted to upstart yet..?
<ochosi> anyhoo, we might have to adjust the blacklist later
<brainwash> and the whiskermenu settings are final too?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> if you look at the blueprint for -artwork, you'll see we still have to discuss that
<brainwash> ok
<knome> off for now, see you all later
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~sbnhall/xubuntu-docs/administrative-tasks-fix - https://code.launchpad.net/~sbnhall/xubuntu-docs/command-line-fix <--- knome
<Unit193> I agree with the second, not sure first.
<Unit193> (Didn't look over it as well being the only reason.)
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/xubuntu-docs/pedantic_sync_changelog_from_archive
<slickymaster-job> knome: ping
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: you around?
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, feel free to do a merge-request for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1004400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004400 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: default double click time is too short" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> i think going along with upstream is ok
<ochosi> bbl
<ochosi> slickymaster: sorry, but i really wanted something else for the preferences of xfdsektop...
<ochosi> the idea as to create a standalone-version, that works on its own
<ochosi> i.e. including the information from 4.8/4.10 that still applies plus the features from 4.12
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: ^
<slickymaster-job> and before that sentence?
<ochosi> sorry, but i really wanted something else for the preferences of xfdsektop...
<ochosi> yeah, repasting now :)
<ochosi> the idea as to create a standalone-version, that works on its own
<ochosi> so just one page, holding all the information, not distinguishing between 4.8/4.10 and 4.12 features
<slickymaster-job> but wasn't that what already existed?
<ochosi> well, only kinda
<ochosi> the 4.12 stuff was in a separate section
<ochosi> sorry if i didn't communicate that clearly enough
<slickymaster-job> hmmm so what you want is to join them and point what fits a version and what fits another version, when it happens?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> just a regular docs page describing the preferences dialog
<ochosi> for version 4.12
<slickymaster-job> just a sec ochosi 
<ochosi> no referring to versions
<slickymaster-job> ah, no I got it
<slickymaster-job> * now
<ochosi> target: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/4.11/start
<ochosi> (i've already started porting with the easy parts)
<slickymaster-job> so join the sections in one page and remove the references to the versions, right?
<ochosi> exactly
<slickymaster-job> the distinction will then be made by the versioning
<slickymaster-job> is that it?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i.e. the 4.10 docs will eventually be moved to http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/4.10/start
<slickymaster-job> can you give half an hour?
<ochosi> sure, no worries/rush
<slickymaster-job> and you'll have it done
<ochosi> just wanted to point it out because i had some time to start the work
<ochosi> porting usage will be quite time-consuming anyway..
<ochosi> (especially with my terrible connection here)
<slickymaster-job> yeah, I imagine
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: how are you planning on dealing with the screenshots?
<ochosi> what do you mean exactly?
<ochosi> i'm downloading them here and then uploading them to docs.xfce :)
<slickymaster-job> what I mean is that presently we have a couple of screenshots for similar features. i.e background tab and icons tab
<slickymaster-job> do you want me do add them both?
<ochosi> only where you think it really makes sense
<slickymaster-job> and nor make any reference to which version each correspond?
<slickymaster-job> ok, got it
<ochosi> no, no version references
<slickymaster-job> ok
<ochosi> we don't have to spell out everything word-by-word
<slickymaster-job> okie dokie
<ochosi> while not everything is intuitive, we don't have to assume the opposite :)
<elfy> afternoon slickymaster-job ochosi 
<ochosi> ey
<ochosi> (short for "elfy")
<elfy> lol
<slickymaster-job> hey elfy. You won't believe but for the first time in two months it's not raining today and the sun is visible :)
<elfy> I do - got the same strange phenomenon going on here ;)
<ochosi> great, so it's raining here
<ochosi> thanks a lot you two!
<elfy> well I would apologise ... 
<slickymaster-job> not my fault, nor even my wishful thinking ;) 
<ochosi> weeeeee
 * ochosi can update a blueprint
<elfy> \o/
<ochosi> light-locker-settings just got sponsored, one day before FF
<elfy> 3 things on the qa one, can't do one till unreal unicorn, other one I postponed - just the one that isn't going to happen this cycle to not do :)
<elfy> ochosi: cool
<elfy> ochosi: is everything else there - just waiting to get in ?
<ochosi> xubuntu-default-settings hasn't been merged
<ochosi> it has a lot of MRs already
<ochosi> and the seed still has some open MRs
<elfy> so they'll get in or not? 
<ochosi> ask micahg :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> this isn't really something we can ask the sponsors to do
<elfy> indeed - I can understand that
<elfy> just about
<ochosi> at least you won't have to add PPAs anymore to test something
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> but yeah, ideally more things will be merged to the seed and uploaded before FF
<elfy> I am going to have fun ppa purging
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences <- please give me your feedback on it particularly on the Background tab and Icons sections 
<slickymaster-job> if I have your ok, I'll go ahead and delete those split pages from bluesabre's wiki
<GridCube> so i know is reaaaaaaaaally late now, and even as i like the current state of the lightdm greeter, i would really like if the greeter box had some transparency, like 20% or so, I think that would add a nice touch asociated to the fact that wallpapers modify the greeter itself :P
<GridCube> but again, its really late for any request for that, but i would like to test if that works good for 14.10 :3
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: I lost my connection so if you pinged me on the http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences subject, I wasn't able to see it
<slickymaster-job> I'm off ->
<slickymaster-job> bbl
<knome> Unit193, will look at it when no headache
<knome> bah, slickymaster just went
<elfy> ochosi: would I be right in saying that people won't be able to test light-locker from a live session when the mp goes through
<elfy> or Unit193 bluesabre ^^
<elfy> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/light-locker-live/+merge/207087
<knome> elfy, yes
<elfy> knome: ok thanks :)
<elfy> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1282154 for the testcase change
<elfy> anyone in here got today's updates for trusty as of 10 minutes ago installed
<elfy> lost icons for lots of panel launchers and all the gtk3 ones
<elfy> usr/share/xfce4/backdrops shows all my wallpapers
<elfy> if I do the same from desktop settings - then navigate to the same place it appears to be empty
<elfy> can't do a screenshot - as I'm told .png is not supported
<elfy> on a plus note I can confirm that screensaver set via light-locker-settings works and locks the screen :)
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/294486
<elfy> gtg = but I assume all the things I'm seeing are similar to the issue toz reported https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1282227
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282227 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop-settings dialog not immediately displaying all available wallpapers" [Undecided,New]
<lderan> forestpiskie, woo for it working :D
<knome> Unit193, stop hiding
<Unit193> Not hiding, nothing to hide from.
<knome> okay
<knome> could you do a new merge proposal for the fixes branch without the .pot changes?
<knome> (is there now?)
<Unit193> Fuzzy languages?
<knome> no, .po's are fine
<knome> but i think we want to keep the .pot
<knome> that's just my gut feeling
<knome> if you think it's okay... then i can merge it now
<Unit193> Wait, so pos are fine, and merge without the pot?  That's everything.
<knome> hm?
<knome> okay then
<knome> i'll merge
<knome> let's see what happens...
<Unit193> Not updated for latest.
<knome> and now you say it.
<knome> clearly not...
<Unit193> Want me to update?
<knome> that would be good
<knome> i'm merging other things now, so would be a good time to get it in
<Unit193> OK, did I do that entirely wrong?
<Noskcaj> micahg, If you're around, panel, indicator, and xfdesktop all have merges for you to sponsor
<knome> Unit193, doesn't look like it for me.
<knome> and yeah, not there's no diff for the pot
<knome> so great.
<knome> well, as much
<knome> wait...
<Unit193> (I refreshed the pot, then updated po files.)
<knome> Unit193, looks a bit weird
<knome> probably just some option, see:
<knome> 1908	-"<application>DejÃ  Dup</application> and "
<knome> 1909	-"<application>luckyBackup</application>."
<knome> 1910	+"<application>DejÃ  Dup</application> and <application>luckyBackup</"
<knome> 1911	+"application>."
<Unit193> Yeah, wrapping oddly.
<knome> different wrapping?
<knome> yep.
<knome> another example:
<knome> 1802	-#: desktop-guide/C/guide-keeping-safe.xml:21(para) desktop-guide/C/guide-keeping-safe.xml:80(title)
<knome> 1803	+#: desktop-guide/C/guide-keeping-safe.xml:21(para)
<knome> 1804	+#: desktop-guide/C/guide-keeping-safe.xml:80(title)
<knome> it definitely looks like a wrapping problem
<Unit193> Is that a problem?
<Unit193> I'm using the gettext tools, which are the standard..
<knome> mmh, dunno.
<knome> why no use get-pot.sh?
<Unit193> I did.
<knome> right
<knome> then i guess it's oka
<knome> y
<Unit193> For the pot, pos got another one.
<knome> merging
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> done
<Unit193> knome: Right, merge your change and I'll send a new one?
<knome> Unit193, i merged and pushed already.
<Unit193> Oh cool.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/JwtfD0kpRPX8pS4iN5M5/ OK, that's how the tree looks.  CSS is your changes though.
<knome> Unit193, mhm.
<forestpiskie> lderan: yea woo for that ;)
<Unit193> That's the two makefiles, some of that is built upon that last mp: http://paste.openstack.org/show/jznXN8zj5nMaabRUvlex/
<knome> still looks okay to me on a not-too-technical level
<jjfrv8-work> knome, I was going to ask you if you wanted me to do anthing with that growing queue, but I see you've already taken care of it.
<knome> jjfrv8-work, :)
<jjfrv8-work> sounds like a stubborn headache :(
<knome> that it is. but fortunately it's now gone :)
<Unit193> Hrm, did you merge them all?
<knome> Unit193, no.
<knome> Unit193, all except the one you weren't sure of either
<Unit193> Nice.
<Unit193> Hrm, not seeing yours.
<knome> mine?
<Unit193> Was I supposed to propose the merge of new appendix or just push it?  I have it pushed.  New startpage.
<knome> merge proposal is good.
<knome> ah, yeah, that.
<Unit193> Bleh.
<knome> i have it on my desktop
<Unit193> And pushed to bzr.
<knome> can push that tomorrow for you
<knome> if you need it
<Unit193> Well, the second half of my translations one uses it, after splitting it up. :P
<knome> heh
<Unit193> (made you happy with htx extension.)
<knome> hehe, good
<Unit193> And, merge requested.
<knome> ta
<Unit193> Anyone in core-doc that can review on a technical level?
<knome> really don't know
<knome> you should ask in -doc
<knome> (i'm there, and can give support if needed)
<brainwash> wohoo, xfdesktop-4.11.3
<Unit193> We can claim bugfix release, right?
<brainwash> important bug-fix release
<brainwash> ofc
<knome> Unit193, isn't that the point of post-FF uploads? :P
<knome> or, having a FF, not just a ... FF
<knome> (1st feature, 2nd final)
<knome> off for now, see you later
<brainwash> bye
<brainwash> Unit193: so now we need to get xfce4-panel 4.11 final, -indicator-plugin 2.3.0 and xfdesktop 4.11.3 in trusty before Beta 1
<Unit193> brainwash: First two are already pending.
<brainwash> that's great
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Did you want to take this too?  Simply a bugfix release.
<brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=ffb99ffdcc7926cae8b8d1bbee286c5797d28083
<slickymaster> knome: I went, but now I've come back :)
<Unit193> slickymaster: Want to review my MP? :P
<slickymaster> Unit193: which one?
<Unit193> knome: FWIW, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted-m-cox/xubuntu-docs/command-line-edits/+merge/206854 that's the one we had doubts on.
<Unit193> (Strong ones.)
<slickymaster> yes knome, I'm with Unit193 regarding that one
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/67404/ (Openstack has better diff view) I concur with this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbnhall/xubuntu-docs/administrative-tasks-fix/revision/142?remember=141&compare_revid=140
<slickymaster> Unit193: look at what I posted in -off regarding your appendix
<Unit193> I did. :P
<Unit193> This is cahnnel 13, that's 14.  Though I normally read in backwards order in the morning.
<ali1234> bug 1282299
<ubottu> bug 1282299 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Rhythmbox not added to indicator-sound menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282299
<ochosi> ali1234: wow, that's an odd bug
<ali1234> not really, this is like the third time it's happened
<ochosi> ali1234: right, but why only rythmbox? so the mpris2 plugin there is buggy?
<knome> slickymaster, aha
<slickymaster> were you looking for me?
<knome> no, you were looking for me :)
<slickymaster> yeah, this morning, wondering if you had saw https://code.launchpad.net/~ted-m-cox/xubuntu-docs/command-line-edits/+merge/206854 whcih by now I know you saw it
<knome> i thought it was fine
<slickymaster> I discussed earlier this morning with Unit193 and we had same objections
<knome> being..?
<slickymaster> even though I don't know what are his
<knome> lol
<slickymaster> sorry knome, give me just a sec
<knome> sure
<knome> i'm actually working on a client project as well
<knome> haven't been feeling too well today (still not awfully well), but have to psuh things forward
<slickymaster> sorry knome, my kid call me
<slickymaster> what I was saying is that in my opinion the proposed paragraph gets too simplified and does not quite frames the use, or better the reason of such use, of the command line
<knome> i agree with that the paragraph could be worded a bit better though
<slickymaster> IMO the existing paragraph is perfect for what it's proposed, i.e. an introduction to the need of the use in Xubuntu and how to do it, strickly speaking on the needs of an average user
<knome> we can always revert it
<slickymaster> maybe Unit193 should give his 20 cents input on it
<knome> i'm not feeling strongly either way
<slickymaster> :) let Unit193 be the ruler
<slickymaster> Unit193: ^^
<knome> slickymaster, the ruler, as in the XPL?
<slickymaster> ah ah ah ah ah
<slickymaster> you really read my mind
<Unit193> I can't elaborate, bit busy with audio editing.  I wasn't for it, less concise and to the point with as much info as it could.  Seemed kind of like it was change for the sake of it.
<slickymaster> more or less my opinion
<knome> heh, fine fine
<knome> maybe you should comment on the merge proposals then ;)
<slickymaster> I was going to do it, but then I saw you had approved it and that kind of stopped me
<knome> heh, that does definitely stop you
<slickymaster> thatÃ's why I rushed and commented on https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/new-appendix/+merge/207310 before you have a chance
<Unit193> :P
<Unit193> Reject it!
<slickymaster> quite the opposite. I think it should be approved and merged
<Unit193> :(
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-20
<slickymaster> knome, Unit193, https://code.launchpad.net/~ted-m-cox/xubuntu-docs/command-line-edits/+merge/206854/comments/486400
<knome> mmh,
<Unit193> knome: Someone else is fixing our mistakes, see?
<knome> hah
<Unit193> In case you didn't see, +1 to those.
<slickymaster> why are you mumbling knome?
<knome> i'm wondering how we should proceed
<knome> a merge proposal with the old text would be easiest for me, but otoh, i can take care of reverting myself.
<knome> if you propose other stuff, you could propose to change it back with them
<knome> please note i also updated the changelog (attributing the author), so you might want to drop that with your proposal
<slickymaster> I lost you knome :P
<knome> i'm here, nobody's lost, no panic
<slickymaster> or at least lost your train of thoughtd
<slickymaster> thoughts
<knome> if you want it fixed, either:
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> 1) do a new merge proposal
<knome> 2) wait until you propose other things to do fix, and propose with those
<knome> 3) leave it to me
<slickymaster> I'll go with door number two
<knome> if 1) or 2), please note that you need to edit the changelog as well (and drop the attribution)
<slickymaster> now that's something you have to enlight me on, editing the changelog
<knome> sure
<slickymaster> how do I go about doing it?
<knome> considering you have all the tools installed,
<knome> in the branch root: dch -e
<knome> then edit the file, save and quit.
<knome> the format is pretty simple, and plenty of examples in the file below
<slickymaster> I'll test it in Unit193's branch I pulled a while ago
<slickymaster> ;)
<knome> typing (LP: #BUGNUM) automatically marks bug released once a version with those strings is uploaded
<slickymaster> how, we've discussed this a few days back, haven't we knome?
<slickymaster> I'm remembering it now
<knome> possible :)
<slickymaster> ok, let's opt then for door number two
<knome> hehe, good
<knome> and whenever you do changes, feel free to edit the changelog accordingly
<knome> that's how you get attributed on the package-level
<slickymaster> the link in xubuntu.ent to xfdesktop has to be corrected, now that ochosi is porting the documentation to docs.xfce.org
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> so when that correction gets done, I'll also rollback that paragraph 
<knome> nice, thanks
<knome> ok, i'm off to sleep
<knome> see you tomorrow
<slickymaster> cy knome 
<slickymaster> get better 
<bluesabre> \o?
<bluesabre> \o/
<ToZ> should I create a bug report to suggest a cosmetic change to the xscreensaver unlock dialog (change is actually to /etc/skel/.Xdefaults from xubuntu-default-settings) to remove the white border?
<Unit193> ToZ: Nope, because we won't be seeding it.
<ToZ> Unit193, what does that mean?
<Unit193> Though, perhaps we should make it as nice for people that choose to?
<Unit193> ToZ: We'll be using light-locker.
<Unit193> Anywho, bluesabre can help, I've got to go.
<ToZ> Unit193, oh, okay. Thanks.
<bluesabre> hey ToZ
<ToZ> hi bluesabre 
<ToZ> I forgot about the change to light-locker. sorry about that.
<bluesabre> that's cool
<bluesabre> but yeah, as of 14.04 we won't provide xscreensaver, so we also won't have any custom settings for it.
<bluesabre> though I am curious, what would the change be?
<ToZ> set "xscreensaver.Dialog.borderWidth:        0" - gets rid of the thick white border
<bluesabre> ah, that's a simple tidy fix :)
<ToZ> bluesabre, looks cleaner (though I know its subjective)
<bluesabre> oh, I think most would agree
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I did xfdesktop yesterday, just updated my merge to be off the debian upload
<Noskcaj> clipman-plugin and xfdesktop are now updated
<ochosi> great Noskcaj 
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<Noskcaj> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> Noskcaj: thanks for taking care of so many uploads!
<pleia2> at 17:00 is the CC catch up over in #ubuntu-meeting if anyone can make it
<pleia2> (~10 hours from now)
<elfy> pleia2: if I'm back from work I will be there twice :)
<pleia2> elfy: hehe
<ochosi> pleia2: sry, i'm kinda out of the loop wrt that, what's happening there exactly? or: why should i be there?
<elfy> CC catch up ochosi 
<pleia2> ochosi: mostly the CC just wants to check in with various teams each cycle to make sure everything is going ok
<ochosi> ah ok
<Noskcaj> ochosi, I've been doing very little recently, and since my desktop(s) are brpken, i've not got many other things to do
<pleia2> it's amazing how much mess is festering in some teams and we don't learn about it until we sit down and ask :)
<ochosi> pleia2: so what does the CC do in case there is trouble in a team?
<pleia2> help in any way we can
<pleia2> either by helping to fix what's wrong, or sitting down with disagreeable folks
<pleia2> we have more connections and people listen to us when we ask for attention, so we can sometimes grease the wheels a bit
 * elfy can attest to it working with IS :p
<pleia2> anyway, not sure I'll be able to make it, lost my grandmother this morning and I'm flying to LA tomorrow afternoon, am kind of out of sorts :(
<Noskcaj> panel 4.11 uploaded
<ochosi> pleia2: i'm very sorry to hear
<pleia2> thanks
<ochosi> Noskcaj: great, so what else is in the queue? gmusicbrowser, xfdesktop, indicator-plugin?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, indicator and gmusicbrowser are the only ones un-uploaded now
<Noskcaj> (both in queue)
<ochosi> right, but xfdesktop4.11.3 also hasn't been done yet, has it?
<elfy> ochosi: seem to be missing icons for vbox and liferea since yesterday
<ochosi> elfy: virtualbox ships/installs their own icon in /usr/share/icons/hicolor
<ochosi> don't know about liferea, never used that
<Noskcaj> ochosi, been there, done that
<ochosi> Noskcaj: woot? but it has only been released a few hrs ago
<Noskcaj> About a day ago. I work fast
<ochosi> Noskcaj: where can i see what's in the queue again?
<Noskcaj> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<elfy> ochosi: d'oh - I've not reinstalled them yet lol - I've been fighting back from this situation I got into yesterday ... http://imagebin.org/294486
<elfy> sorry for bothering you
<ochosi> elfy: no worries
<ochosi> Noskcaj: it's currently shorter than i would've imagined
<Noskcaj> ochosi, sync bugs get cleared within a day or two of being filed, a call for sponsoring was just made by dholbach to try and prep for FF too
<Noskcaj> The highest i've seen was 90 packages, back in the christmas holidays
<ochosi> let's hope the default-settings also get updated/done
<ochosi> Noskcaj: since you said you're not overly busy, wanna get xubuntu-artwork ready?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Sure. Link(s) plz.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/trusty
<ochosi> this was usually handled by pouit, so if there's something you need me to push, let me know
<Noskcaj> ok.
<Noskcaj> might be worth setting up the bug tracker soonish
<elfy> Noskcaj: thanks for what you're doing :)
<ochosi> hm, we should also add a kb-shortcut for whisker-menu as soon as the new default panel-config has landed
<Noskcaj> What do you want me to do for xubuntu-artwork? Check packaging and upload to sponsor queue?
<ochosi> yup
<Noskcaj> ok
<elfy> ochosi: any need now for me to bother with the gtk3 indicators from a qa perspective that you can think of?
<elfy> if not I'll just wait for them to land
<ochosi> i think the latter should be ok
<elfy> ok thanks 
<ochosi> Noskcaj: is there anything left we need to resolve now for gmusicbrowser, or was my comment in #u-devel enough?
<Noskcaj> So you want to work on the patch/upstream before i merge?
<ochosi> not really, i can take that as a workitem for T+1 though
<ochosi> oh, one more thing
<ochosi> in case you think there's a chance we can sneak a resolution for this bug in as well... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,Expired]
<ochosi> since in the merging you're touching the plugin-config in gmbrc as well
<ochosi> (i've obviously tested the plugin in trusty and it works as expected, it's even in our default layout, it just doesn't display anything if we don't activate it in the gmbrc file)
<Noskcaj> ok. so: re-merge, add extra patch, submit to sponsoring queue
<Noskcaj> ochosi, The usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce/mimes/96/gnome-mime-application-x-java-archive symlink is broken
<Noskcaj> plus i'll have to fix d/copyright, extend the descriptions, and fix the maintainerscripts
<ochosi> i can fix that broken symlink in a few minutes
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Do you know anything about fixing maintainer-script-should-not-use-update-alternatives-remove ?
<ochosi> sorry, not really
<Noskcaj> Then i guess i'll leave that issue there till someone else can fix it. I'l propose my small fix to a few things, then it should be upload-able
<ochosi> already fixed that symlink upstream, will push it to trunk in a few secs
<Noskcaj> yep, i didn't fix that one. just d/copyright and d/control stuff
<ochosi> ok, just pushed rev256 which fixes the symlink
<Noskcaj> If you can do my merge, i'll add this to the sponsoring queue tomorrow. I've got to make a bug for transmission then get off the computer
<Noskcaj> And indicator is now uploaded
<ochosi> great, will quickly merge
<ochosi> Noskcaj: done (rev257)
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> I've sent an email to the debian maintainer for gmusicbrowser, hopefully he can look into it soon
<ochosi> ok, sounds good
<Noskcaj> oops, my d/copyright wasn't quite finished. I'm pushing the branch, but really have to go now
<ochosi> elfy: you around?
<ochosi> any ppl around who can test stuff on trusty?
<ochosi> if any of you testers can, please install the xubuntu-default-settings pkg from here in a clean vbox: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/tmp/xubuntu/
<ochosi> then try to verify the patches from here worked: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/trusty-updates/+merge/207376
<slickymaster-job> morning all
<knome> hey slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> hi knome, good morning
<knome> good day
<slickymaster-job> bluesabre2, ochosi, brainwash, here's my gift for you today -> bug 1282509
<ubottu> bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282509
<ochosi> yup, seems to be a bug in xfdesktop4.11.3
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: on a different subject
<slickymaster-job> so, is it your intention to replace all the screenshots (except the one regarding the background tab) in xfdesktop usage page?
<ochosi> no, why that?
<ochosi> they're all up-to-date, what isnt are the screeners on the prefs page
<slickymaster-job> following aour conversation last night, I got that impression
<slickymaster-job> ah, those are the ones jjfrv8 did
<ochosi> yup, they're all fine
<slickymaster-job> but I can replace the ones in the prefs page
<slickymaster-job> that's not a problem
<ochosi> ok, great
<ochosi> thanks a lot
<slickymaster-job> so, all of them but the one regarding the background tab, right?
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: ^
<ochosi> actually the one regarding the background tab is fuzzy
<ochosi> so if you're  taking new screenshots, also replace that one if you can
<slickymaster-job> okie dokie, you'll have everything ready this afternoon ochosi 
<ochosi> great, thanks a lot!
<bluesabre2> ochosi: so, that dholbach package is all the merge requests being push straight to the archive?
<ochosi> bluesabre2: yes
<bluesabre2> excellent
<bluesabre2> :)
<ochosi> but since he doesn't have a xubuntu testbox he wanted some of us to test it
<ochosi> >1 person
<bluesabre2> ok, I'll test it in a few
<bluesabre2> on a fresh vm
<ochosi> i already successfully tested most of it
<ochosi> apart from the live-package
<ochosi> great, thanks!
<ochosi> feel free to reply directly to dholbach in #ubuntu-devel once you're done
<ochosi> he's basically waiting for our ok to upload (well waiting as in: doing other stuff meanwhile)
<bluesabre2> ok
<ochosi> ok, gotta go
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre2> seeya ochosi
<bluesabre2> ochosi, knome: so I think we should also update xubuntu-desktop with depends for the new packages we've added to the seed, right?
<knome> bluesabre2, sounds fair
<bluesabre2> ok, looks like its a script thats run by any person with upload rights
<bluesabre2> micahg: if you get  a chance after the seed MRs and x-d-s MRs, could you also refresh xubuntu-meta?
<bluesabre2> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xubuntu-meta/trusty
<codfather>  A quick question about 14.04 - are there any plans to have a proxy settings tool with the network system settings app? It would save a whole pile of post install configuration if it was.
<codfather>  BTW - loving the new settings manager in 14.04 a real improvement over previous LTS version
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs:preferences all the screenshots have been updated to xfdesktop 4.11 and also removed the new to not read "... new feature..."
<slickymaster-job> ping me later on your feedback. I'm going to brag something to lunch ->
<knome> codfather, not that i know of
<elfy> ochosi: if I can get a vm to install and work properly I'll look later 
<elfy> knome: no meeting tonight I assume 
<knome> no, didn't schedule one and most probably can't make it myself
<knome> feel free to have an impromptu one if enough people are around and there are things to discuss
<lderan> elfy, I updated the list of autopilot apps on the wiki page, will be going through the ones that failed to see if i can get them to work to be sure.
<codfather> knome: Ok thanks for the info
<ochosi> codfather: i don't even know of a good/easy dependency-less lightweight proxy-settings tool
<ochosi> i'm still hoping it'll be implemented in network-manager
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: thanks, i'll take a look
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: hummm, lots of information in the background section is outdated... (no more imagelists, no more auto-mode, no more brightness/saturation sliders...)
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: hmm, jjfrv8 must have written it with 4.10 in mind
<cyphermox> ochosi: it5 will be in NM eventually, just needs someone to take the time to write it
<slickymaster-job> I haven't went through the text jjfrv8 wrote, but I'd imagine that it would be preferable for him to rewrite it for 4.12, unless you really need it done now
<ochosi> cyphermox: well, good to know!
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: sure, no problem. i'll either wait for his reply or take a look at it myself
<slickymaster-job> alright let's wait for his two cents :)
<brainwash> wow, everything has landed in trusty before FF
<brainwash> good job
<schproodle_> ubiquity crashed on Xubuntu i386 and amd64.  Does the automatic bug report that appeared to be sent  enough?  Should I do something else?
<schproodle_> Daily Xubuntu trusty that is.
<schproodle_> Just wait for tomorrow's daily then.
<ochosi> brainwash: the seed hasnt been updated yet
<codfather> ochosi: Here is one I came across http://code.google.com/p/ubproxy while searching for xubuntu proxy settings
<cmars> hi, i'm running latest trusty and occasionally the desktop goes all "zoomed in". anyone seen this? how/where should I open a bug?
<cmars> it almost seems like an accessibility zoom feature. the resolution doesn't show a change in the control-panel when it changes, either.
<brainwash> cmars: see http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=e7da725aab39018f54383dc6e8a64eccd8793035
<cmars> brainwash, thanks, that might be it. my touchpad is really sensitive, and it might be picking up a scroll when i'm alt-tabbing or something
<brainwash> it's a hidden feature as of now I think
<cmars> brainwash, is there a way to turn it off?
<brainwash> ali1234 might know
<brainwash> disabling the builtin compositor (settings manager > window manager tweaks > last tab) is one way to get rid of it
<brainwash> cmars: so you can discuss this with the actual coder ali1234 or file a bug report on the Xfce bug tracker against xfwm
<cmars> brainwash, thanks!
<brainwash> :)
 * elfy seems to have the gtk3 indicators now \o/
<slickymaster-job> hey Noskcaj 
<Unit193> Purge -gtk2 ones then.
<Noskcaj> hey slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> Noskcaj: do you think you can Triaged bug 1282509?
<ubottu> bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282509
<slickymaster-job> hi ubottu 
<slickymaster-job> ups
<Unit193> :D
 * slickymaster-job meant to say hi Unit193 
<Unit193> Mhmm, suuure you did.
 * slickymaster-job wasn't implying that Unit193 is a bot
<Noskcaj> Unit193, ubottu, pretty much the same thing
<jjfrv8-work> ochosi, I can take a crack at fixing xfdesktop Preferences. I might not be able to finish it, though, before the wee hours UTC of Saturday.
<slickymaster-job> hey jjfrv8-work. Thanks for that.
<jjfrv8-work> slickymaster-job, sure
<Noskcaj> slickymaster-job, You should apply for triage rights soon
<Noskcaj> Just make sure you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Bug%20triage for a few bugs
<slickymaster-job> jjfrv8-work: I've already updated the screenshots but figured that since you were the one who wrote, you would be the one to rewrite it
<slickymaster-job> yes Noskcaj, I do have to see that
<jjfrv8-work> slickymaster, but you're assuming I did it right to begin with :)
<slickymaster-job> jjfrv8-work: yes, and I'm convinced you were right when you done it since I assume that you were writing for 4.10 version
<jjfrv8-work> elfy, is it correct to assume that we can dispense with all PPAs when testing anything from here forward?
<Noskcaj> weather plugin sru is now complete
<slickymaster-job> hey did the meeting got scheduled? 
<jjfrv8-work> slickymaster-job, knome said there wasn't a meeting scheduled today.
<slickymaster-job> oh, ok
<slickymaster-job> thanks jjfrv8-work 
<slickymaster-job> that being I'll be going home :)
<slickymaster-job> catch you in a moment guys ->
<jjfrv8-work> gotta go too. back tomorrow.
<elfy> I did indeed purge them Unit193 :)
<micahg> bluesabre: it's only my list, I was going to upload, but was hoping to fix the ppc64el issues in the seed first
<micahg> but I guess I"ll just upload
<brainwash> elfy: we should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
<elfy> lderan: thanks - just seen that a/pilot ping 
<lderan> no problem
<elfy> brainwash: in what respect
<elfy> lderan: quick question - Mail Reader says it fails, but Thunderbird says it works :)
<brainwash> elfy: installing PPA isn't needed anymore, a small hint to inform the reader
<lderan> elfy, oops
<elfy> brainwash - I guess, on the other hand why would anyone be going to that wiki page anymore - I doubt if many have
<elfy> but if you want to edit it ;)
<elfy> bbl
<DumperZ> hello all
<DumperZ> i have some problem on Xubuntu trusty, kicad has a tool PCBnew to produce eletronic boards, normally it should find the modules, but looks like theyr are missing for the footprints
<knome> DumperZ, umm... i would ask the app developers for that, it's not included in xubuntu by default so we don't track (or fix) stuff related to that
<DumperZ> kicad is available in the apt anyway ...
<knome> DumperZ, yes. but the xubuntu team is not the maintainer for that package, so we will know nothing of it's state
<Unit193> First I heard of it.
<knome> (and since it's not included in the default seed, we aren't tracking it either)
<knome> DumperZ, the best bet is to contact the application developers
<DumperZ> ok thanks , i am currently on their chan but nothing repluing
<knome> patience is a good virtue when you try to poke people on IRC :)
<DumperZ> yes i know well about it :) i am an early user of IRC , may be 15 y ago now
<Unit193> Nice.
<DumperZ> i have some stuffs in my trusty i should talk about,
 * Unit193 hides.
<DumperZ> each time i start trusty i get the same annoyance, it is loading the last sessions, anyway the session manager's case is unchecked about "restore session on startup"
 * knome drags Unit193 from below the table
<knome> DumperZ, have you reported test results to ISO tracker?
 * elfy puts Unit193 on the table on show
<Unit193> Hey, I was taking a nap.
<knome> DumperZ, have you filed bugs?
<Unit193> DumperZ: rm -r .cache/sessions/
<DumperZ> not yet, i would like to be sure to experience a real bug before to bother launchpad with jung reports
<DumperZ> in your side is it working fine ?
<brainwash> DumperZ: did you delete the cache files? I think xfce4-session will try to restore the previously saved session until you delete it
<brainwash> ~/.cache/sessions/
<DumperZ> i did
<brainwash> so everything's fine now?
<DumperZ> but i will know if it is working on next boot
<DumperZ> or login
<ochosi> jjfrv8: that sounds fine
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1282734 xfdesktop4?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282734 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Please update xubuntu-artwork" [Wishlist,In progress]
<bluesabre2> well duh
<bluesabre2> 0
<bluesabre2> :)
<bluesabre2> micahg: ping :)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-21
<kondor1001> hi
<kondor1001> got an old laptop today,  seems like a good idea to use it for testing alpha,  is the current installer working?
<holstein> kondor1001: try it
<kondor1001> good idea
<Unit193> Don't forget to report your results to the iso tracker.
<kondor1001> 20140220 i386 on the way 
<kondor1001> will do, will need to read up how
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<ganglere> Unfortunately I missed out on the milestone tests. I just did an upgrade on my workstation with the daily iso and ran into this: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YE06Haj-C7GrL8kWDkpAT9nbGQ8g2tdSlseU0GiYjsU=w1598-h900
<ganglere> A clean install seamed to work just fine (reinstalling applications now).
<Unit193> Couldn't select the last bootable kernel?  3.11.something ?
<ganglere> Unit193, I tried several kernels and recovery mode, same error each time
<Unit193> Well.
<ganglere> Looking at the testcase results, it looks like all the other upgrades used "update-manager -d -c"
<ganglere> Where as I booted the iso from a flash drive and selected upgrade
<Unit193> Never done that, I've heard bad results though.
<ganglere> I will remember that for the future. 
<Unit193> (That's nothing official, just what I've heard before.)
<ganglere> I had assumed.
<Unit193> Might be nice for someone to fix if that's the case.
<ganglere> How does it differ? I just assumed it did a chroot and then an upgrade-manager call
<ganglere> One would think it would be less volatile than an in-place upgrade
<kondor1001> got this one,  do i have to report it anywhere other than clicking the report bug?  it is a duplicate obviously, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1282640
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282640 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in item_str(): 'list' object has no attribute 'find'" [Critical,Confirmed]
<holstein> !bug
<ubottu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<kondor1001> does that launchpad page get updated when that bug is fixed?
<holstein> when?
<holstein> you mean, if there is activity, and that activity is logged.. yes
<kondor1001> i mean when it is fixed
<ganglere> Unit193, is this worth reporting? I don't know what package to report against.
<kondor1001> ok, im off, will keep an eye on that launchpad page so i know when to try another image.
<Unit193> ganglere: I'd say so, but I'm not really sure where it failed.
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi
<Noskcaj> Any chance you could get some testing to the new xfburn release?
<Noskcaj> As long as it's stable(ish), it will get to debian pretty soon
<elfy> we can discuss it when it lands and is seeded 
<Noskcaj> corsac won't upload it to debian unless it's tested first. I'll see if i can get the bzr branch to unbreak
<elfy> not sure how many people you'll get testing something if they can't install it in a live session or their machines 
<elfy> and I'm more worried about people testing beta's and things that have/have to land for us tbh
<Noskcaj> it doesn't have to be much, just one person checking it's not completely broken
<Noskcaj> I don't have a dvd burner, and neither does corsac
<elfy> neither do I
<Noskcaj> :(
<elfy> if I did - I'd look myself
<elfy> I've read the m/l discussion - if nothing changes in that I see no reason for me to get involved at the moment - I assume it'll get into Unreal Unicorn 
<elfy> mmm indicator-network wants to use 92Mb of space - or without recommends 200Mb 
<Noskcaj> I've got the new xfburn up for sponsoring. If anyone has an issue with that, please say. I know it's late in the cycle, but the old version is incredibly outdated, and i'd rather deal with bug reports for a current version rather than the old one.
<Noskcaj> I'll have to go soon, will be back 19UTC
<ochosi_> elfy: indicator-network is not something we use by default though, we use nm-applet which in turn uses indicator-application
<ochosi> elfy: ping
<bluesabre21> bug reports for a project with one maintainer can be bad news
<bluesabre21> considering that the current xfburn, as old as it is, is basically the most stable burning app there is, along with k3b
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Beta1
<knome> let's start working on the release notes
<slickymaster-job> knome: where to place the drop of gthumg?
<slickymaster-job> *gthumb
<slickymaster-job> ok
<knome> isn't final "sections", just add anywhere, but i added a new heading
<elfy> ochosi: pong
<elfy> ok - that's ok, just checking - but nm-applet doesn't appear to be using indicator-application here
<knome> elfy, see link ^
<elfy> wut?
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Beta1
<elfy> oic sorry
<slickymaster-job> knome: I'll add xfdesktop new features after lunch. I have a lunch appointment in about 10 minutes 
<knome> sure, no hurry
<knome> we still have a week
<knome> at once we're well ahead
<elfy> but but but but ... 
<slickymaster-job> better safe than sorry
<knome> slickymaster-job, question: in which parts is the documentation *re*written?
<slickymaster-job> regarding the "Changing the wallpaper" section 
<knome> right
<knome> i thought that would fall under "improved"
<knome> or maybe "updated" more than "rewritten"
<slickymaster-job> and the command-line chapter that Unit193 sort of rewrite
<knome> see pad, rewrote that sentence
<knome> but feel free to revert if you insist
<slickymaster-job> nopes, it does seems better that way. Better wording
<slickymaster-job> but I really have to go now
<slickymaster-job> bbl ->
<brainwash> elfy: can you please take a look at bug 1282227 and maybe confirm it? takes only some seconds :)
<ubottu> bug 1282227 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop-settings dialog not immediately displaying all available wallpapers" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282227
<elfy> can't confirm it - works ok here
<brainwash> thanks
<elfy> I would have 2 days ago when none of my wallpapers were available 
<elfy> I think there was possibly an issue with that a day or so ago
<brainwash> now it's gone?
<elfy> well it works ok here - updated
<elfy> but I did have that and a bunch of other really odd things going on
<elfy> [19:17] <elfy> lost icons for lots of panel launchers and all the gtk3 ones
<elfy> [19:17] <elfy> usr/share/xfce4/backdrops shows all my wallpapers
<elfy> [19:18] <elfy> if I do the same from desktop settings - then navigate to the same place it appears to be empty
<elfy> [19:18] <elfy> can't do a screenshot - as I'm told .png is not supported
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/294486
<ochosi> elfy: i wanted to ask you about testing light-locker-settings. it hasn't been added to the seed yet but it's uploaded, so installing it is easy
<ochosi> specifically testing whether screen-blanking and screen-suspending works
<elfy> then the following morning my panel was the same length as in that AND the only thing you could see was the date 
<elfy> ochosi: ok - you want me to call for that? 
<elfy> ochosi: is xscreensaver gone from the seed now?
<brainwash> elfy: ouch, users who upgrade from a previous xubuntu version might experience the same issues
<ochosi> elfy: i think yes, let me check...
<elfy> brainwash: it wasn't up upgrade from a previous version 
<ochosi> elfy: the seed change for s/xscreensaver/light-locker/ has been merged, but i'm not sure micahg has uploaded that change already
<elfy> mmm ok - so purge xscrn install light-locker light-locker-settings and check those 2 issues?
<ochosi> elfy: yup, sounds good
<elfy> that really needs to have a testcase if we're seeding it 
<ochosi> we will be seeding it, just a question of when the seed changes get merged/uploaded
<elfy> ochosi: did you see what I said about nm-applet - is it supposed to be in notification area or in indicator plugin?
<knome> ochosi, you too, see the pad
<ochosi> knome: see what pad?
<elfy> ochosi: ok - well I will get it on the tracker asap
<knome> let's get it in awesome shape so our marketing lead doesn't have to work on it
<brainwash> elfy: indicator area, but this requires the workaround
<knome> ochosi, http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Beta1
<ochosi> knome: ok, will check later
<knome> ochosi, ta
<elfy> knome: I'll look at pad later - really want to smoke a lot and drink the cuppa b4 I'm back to work :p
<knome> elfy, yeah sure :)
<elfy> brainwash: workaround?
<elfy> and I'll read it later - bbl :p
<brainwash> elfy: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators > "Indicators may fail to load"
<brainwash> we are still waiting for the fix from the indicator stack maintainer
<elfy> oh yea, that one - thought about that while I was doing something else then promptly forgot again
<brainwash> we could apply the workaround until it really gets fixed, but nobody likes this idea, because it could cause some trouble later on
<brainwash> ochosi: will lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.2 land in trusty anytime soon or somewhat later after more bugfixes have been gathered?
<brainwash> the gtk_main_quit fix is quite important
<brainwash> especially now that the greeter is used as lock screen
<slickymaster-job> knome: updated the tab with some more data
<knome> slickymaster-job, tab? you mean pad? :P
<slickymaster-job> knome: yes, Pad
<slickymaster-job> my mind is playing tricks on me
<knome> :)
<knome> (moved the bugs to the notes section for now, let's see which we want to "promote" on the announcement
<slickymaster-job> ok, but I think there are some more
<knome> sure, let's keep on listing
<slickymaster-job> are you ok with the xfdesktop new features knome?
<knome> slickymaster-job, yep, looks good
<slickymaster-job> goo
<slickymaster-job> *good
<brainwash> should we list bug 1271861 ?
<ubottu> bug 1271861 in thunar (Ubuntu) ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271861
<brainwash> it's a feature request
<brainwash> wrong icon = generic folder icon
<brainwash> slickymaster-job: we might need an upstream report for bug 1282509
<ubottu> bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282509
<slickymaster-job> brainwash: I know. Haven't got the time to take care of it, though
<slickymaster-job> I'll try to do it over the weekend
<brainwash> usually you won't even notice this bug if you compile from git or disable apport, because the session immediately restarts xfdesktop after the crash
<brainwash> thanks :)
<brainwash> hopefully we'll get it fixed before B1
<slickymaster-job> not putting much faith in that
<knome> brainwash, file the upstream bug yourself, be in touch with upstream and make sure it's fixed, do a merge request (with help from somebody), make sure it gets to the sponsors queue and passes that
<knome> brainwash, i would rather you do this for one bug than hearing about "we need to fix this" about 20 bugs ("we" meaning somebody in the team but not you)
<knome> brainwash, helping out by triaging bugs is fine, but at this point, you have as much information about the bug than anybody else (probably more), and know the processes; if you don't know, you can ask for help
<brainwash> I'll do it myself then
<brainwash> ubuntu guys already complaining, bug 1283124
<ubottu> bug 1283124 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:11:xfce_desktop_refresh:style_refresh_cb:g_timeout_dispatch:g_main_dispatch:g_main_context_dispatch" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283124
<knome> brainwash, thanks for stepping up and taking care.
<slickymaster-job> yes, errors tops e.u.c daily view
<slickymaster-job> seb128 already mailed Noskcaj regarding it
<slickymaster-job> since he was the one who did the update
<ali1234> xfdesktop does have some bugs... i've seen where it doesn't refresh the background on all monitors at startup
<slickymaster-job> hey ali1234, maybe you can help brainwash with it
<brainwash> ali1234: latest version 4.11.3?
<slickymaster-job> yes ali1234, that's the one
<sergio-br2> hello
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi
<knome> jjfrv8, you around?
<ali1234> 1516cb96c6ec9b20b63f05e7bcc4af8594d43129 looks like the culprit
<knome> jjfrv8, slickymaster-job: stgraber will do a ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu release on monday, we have until that to get stuff prepared for the beta slideshow
<slickymaster-job> knome: I must confess you that I haven't looked at it yet
<knome> no problem, jjfrv8 did some
<knome> and we have the weekend
<slickymaster-job> that's what I was going to say 
<slickymaster-job> :P
<brainwash> ali1234: http://lpaste.net/100243
<elfy> ubiquity is a bit oops then atm
<slickymaster-job> gotta go
<slickymaster-job> bbl ->
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi
<sergio-br2> i did some random updates
<knome> huhu, random? :)
<sergio-br2> *in elementary icons, haha
<ali1234> brainwash: that doesn't look right to me
<brainwash> ali1234: what exactly?
<ali1234> well the icon reset does not depend on there being workspaces
<ali1234> and besides, why aren't there any workspaces?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: oh cool, somehow i don't get emails about pending merge-requests...
<brainwash> ali1234: don't know, I just added the check to prevent xfdesktop from segfaulting :(
<brainwash> it's a start I guess
<ochosi> sergio-br2: thanks, will review them tonight and get back to you. will you be around later?
<sergio-br2> yes, bot now, but after 2 hours i think so
<sergio-br2> *but not now
<ochosi> ok, sounds fine
<ochosi> i'll see whether i'll be around then
<ochosi> not unlikely that i will be
<brainwash> ali1234: the rest is up to eric (or you) :P
<ali1234> is this reported on xfce bugzilla?
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10705
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10705 in General "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Major,New]
<brainwash> the report is only pointing to the LP one
<ochosi> brainwash: did you check in which commit the bug starts to appear? (since it's not in 4.11.2)
<ali1234> already found
<brainwash> yea, the style refresh commit
<ochosi> ok, cool
<ochosi> btw, before anyone complains to *me* about this, we're hit by this upstream gtk3.10 bug in 14.04: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710909
<ubottu> Gnome bug 710909 in .General "Buttons are cut in some windows" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<elfy> ochosi: I have this thing where buttons are cut in some windows ... 
<ochosi> yup
<ali1234> i have not seen anything like that with orion
<ochosi> everyone has it
<brainwash> some windows?
<ochosi> gtkdialog mostly
<brainwash> ah ok
<ochosi> ali1234: affects all themes that use the default engine to draw buttons
<ali1234> how do i reproduce it?
<brainwash> weird thing that I haven't noticed that so far
<ochosi> ali1234: here it is with orion: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-21-193330.php
<ochosi> ali1234: one way is to start synaptic
<ochosi> i'll check another way for you to reproduce quickly
<ali1234> i don't see it
<ochosi> are you on 14.04?
<ochosi> that's weird then
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> but that's only a minor glitch, no one would complain about this
<ochosi> open evince -> open file
<ali1234> what is evince?
<ochosi> the pdf-reader
<ali1234> is it "document viewer"
<ochosi> yup
<ali1234> ok, looks fine to me
<ochosi> the open-file dialog has that issue too
<ali1234> when did this start happening?
<ochosi> with gtk3.10
<ali1234> i haven't updated since yesterday
<ali1234> i can't reproduce this anywhere
<ochosi> no, a lot earlier than yesterday
<ochosi> weird weird
<brainwash> greybird looks fine here, buttons are OK
<ali1234> i dn't use the default fonts, that probably affects it
<ochosi> what fonts do you use?
<brainwash> same here
<brainwash> not using the default font setup
<ali1234> droid sans 11, force 96 DPI, slight hinting
<elfy> I was actualyl joking ochosi - but yea - got that here :)
<ochosi> yeah, weird
<ochosi> that fixes it
<ochosi> "fixes"
<ochosi> try 9pt
<ali1234> yeah that breaks it lol
<brainwash> so lets switch to 11 by default :)
<ali1234> also i can't read anything cos everything is so small
<ochosi> i'll add another comment about this upstream
<ochosi> fwiw, 10 also breaks it
<ali1234> not here it doesn't
<ali1234> oh wait, yeah it does
<ochosi> opensans works with 10pt, doesn't with 9pt
<ochosi> seems like a "simple" padding issue
<ali1234> it looks like the label text is too high on the button
<ali1234> meh
<brainwash> can you please link the upstream report?
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710909 is the upstream report
<ubottu> Gnome bug 710909 in .General "Buttons are cut in some windows" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<brainwash> thanks
<ochosi> it was actually a pain to even get that bugreport re-opened
<ali1234> it took less than 24 hours
<ali1234> that's not a pain
<ali1234> completely random, but do you know how local menus works in unity?
<ali1234> can we implement it in xfwm?
<ochosi> i guess they use the same dbus method they use with their global-menu indicator (random guess)
<ali1234> hmm... seems reasonable assumption
<ochosi> where do you see that it took less than 24hrs from my comment on 2014-01-31
<ochosi> that menu doesn't work nicely in xfce4-indicator-plugin, so i'm not sure getting it into xfwm4 will be easy
<ali1234> that's probably more down the the indicator plugin
<ali1234> what happens if the window is too small to show the menus on one line?
<ochosi> then there's an expander
<ochosi> i've seen a screenshot of that somewhere
<ali1234> hmm...
<ali1234> mousepad won't let you make the window smaller than the menu
<ochosi> ali1234: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/lim-not-enough-space.jpg
<ali1234> cool
<ali1234> i might try to implement it
<ochosi> sounds challenging
<ali1234> i bet it's easy really
<ali1234> cop and paste some code and dump a gtk widget onto the decorations
<ochosi> btw, since you're the most xfwm4-proficient person around: is there a way to increase the resize-hover-area of xfwm4?
<ali1234> hmm that's another thing on my todo list actually
<ochosi> or will that add lots of pointer-polling
<ali1234> i hate 1 pixel resize borders....
<ochosi> something like 3px would be a nice area
<ali1234> it should not require any polling
<ali1234> the windows already have shadows that expand the real border area
<ali1234> just need to make the resizer detect based on that
<ali1234> although since that's part of the compositor we might not be able to use those directly
<ochosi> hmm, yeah, ideally would work also without compositor
<ochosi> bbiab
<ali1234> you can probably fake it on the theme side by making the brder pixmaps bigger, with transparent areas
<ochosi> i remember trying that and it not working though
<ochosi> anyway, bbiab
<ali1234> hmm, fair enough
<ali1234> ah, i think i found it
<ali1234> hmm...
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm...
<ochosi> ali1234: ? :)
<ali1234> i'm not sure if this is even possible
<ochosi> the menus in the window-deco or the resize-area?
<ali1234> resize
<ochosi> wonder how other WMs do it though
<ali1234> using big pizmaps with transparency doesn't work because it uses XShape to make out the transparent pixels
<ali1234> if you don't make out the transparent pixels you get garbage in those pixels
<ali1234> all the other windows that can do it are compositors so they can do real transparency
<ali1234> window managers*
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> so they supposedly simply add 1 or 2px of transparent window-border?
<ochosi> (sounds like a straight-forward solution)
<sergio-br2> ochosi
<ochosi> sergio-br2: sorry, haven't finished yet :/
<ochosi> sergio-br2: just finished the mimes branch
<ochosi> sergio-br2: hmm, no 22px multimedia-video-player?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: also, the shadow below the play-icon in the 24px version of that icon seems a bit off
<sergio-br2> ochosi, there is no 22 px multimedia-video-player in upstream
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, but it's very trivial to do, there's always the same protocol for converting 24px to 22px
<ochosi> remove the drop-shadow, reduce the icon size to 22px
<ochosi> and then center the icon again and hit save :)
<sergio-br2> ok
<ochosi> btw, sometimes i don't merge stuff from upstream, because they don't have all the sizes and i don't have time to draw thenm
<ochosi> so i've merged all branches except the apps
<ochosi> is the 24px version taken directly from upstream?
<sergio-br2> the shadow is weird in 24
<sergio-br2> yeah
<ochosi> strange
<sergio-br2> the only that missing was 22 px
<ochosi> probably worth mentioning that to DanRabbit or submitting a bugreport
<ochosi> or: fixing it and submitting a merge-request upstream
<ochosi> he's usually happy to merge stuff back
<sergio-br2> ok, i will see it
<ochosi> but no worries, let's fix it in -xfce first
<ochosi> something's off with that anyhow, i can't see it in the preview in thunar
<ochosi> that usually means the shadow won't be visible in the png converted version
<sergio-br2> ochosi, done
<ochosi> sergio-br2: did you also fix the shadow?
<sergio-br2> yes
<ochosi> strange, still looks large: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-21-223821.php
<ochosi> otoh it gives the white icon a bit more structure against the red backdrop
<ochosi> oh right, it's the same in 32px
<sergio-br2> yes, but i think it is the desing
<ochosi> i thought it shouldn't be like that
<ochosi> yeah
<sergio-br2> design
<ochosi> it's fine
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> merged, thanks a bunch!
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> no problem :)
<sergio-br2> you know when the git repo go to trusty?
<sergio-br2> is it you that make the package for ubuntu?
<ochosi> no, i'm not doing any packaging
<ochosi> i only push to the branch, then one of our packagers takes care of it
<ochosi> Noskcaj put the xubuntu-artwork package in the sponsors queue, so whenever uploaders have time, they upload it
<ochosi> my last push there was the 96px folders
<ochosi> but we can try to do another package upload sometime after beta1
<sergio-br2> give me a deadline, i can do some icons yet
<ochosi> ok, let me check the release schedule quickly
<ochosi> march13th is the UI freeze, so being ready with the icons on march 6th would be ideal
<ochosi> then we have a week for our packagers to update the package and upload it
<ochosi> so two weeks from now, a little less than that
<sergio-br2> no time to lose then
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> nice to see that some folks on ubuntu also use our artwork :)
<ochosi> bbl
<Noskcaj> ochosi, It's been on the queue for 2 days now
<jjfrv8> knome, are you still around?
<knome> jjfrv8, i am
<jjfrv8> did you want to work on the slideshow tonight?
<knome> if you have time and motivation, we can do that
<knome> as you most probably read, we have the weekend to land new things
<knome> (for beta, then again for final)
<jjfrv8> I was going to try to finish xfdesktop for ochosi tonight and I only have a few hours available this weekend
<knome> if you can push the slide you created to a branch, i'm fine with that
<jjfrv8> sure, I can do that
<jjfrv8> I'll probably have from around 14 to 16 tomorrow, that might be it for the weekend
<jjfrv8> but I'll push the slide in the next few minutes
<knome> you should use the time you have for xfdesktop
<knome> i can handle the slideshow for now
<knome> and i'm most probably away at that time tomorrow
<jjfrv8> ok
<slickymaster> hey knome, jjfrv8 
<knome> heys li
<knome> .
<knome> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> it seems that I got here just in time
<jjfrv8> evening
<knome> slickymaster, kind of :)
<knome> slickymaster, did you have ideas for the slideshow?
<jjfrv8> knome, I've pushed the slideshow. You don't want a MP, do you? Just a link to the branch?
<knome> jjfrv8, either one works for me
<slickymaster> knome: I'm going to start on it now
<knome> jjfrv8, but easier for you with no MP
<knome> slickymaster, okay :)
<jjfrv8> knome, https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/personalize-desktop
<knome> jjfrv8, thanks
<slickymaster> knome: I think that all types of markting stuff are to be avoid, right?
<knome> slickymaster, yep
<knome> slickymaster, and boring applications listing
<jjfrv8> I didn't create a new slide, I just modified 01_internet.html
<knome> jjfrv8, that works
<knome> i'll sort it out if/when we get more stuff done today
<slickymaster> it looks good jjfrv8 
<jjfrv8> thx
<slickymaster> knome, jjfrv8 proposed text completely empties 2/3 of 05_desktop.html slide
<knome> slickymaster, no problem, i'm not merging the branch as is
<slickymaster> knome: remind me again how to build the slideshow locally, please
<knome> slickymaster, ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<slickymaster> ok, thanks
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/personalize.png
<knome> slickymaster, does that help your inspiration?
<knome> note the different layout
<knome> the shot is still to be replaced
<knome> and i need the mugshot icon from somewhere
<knome> file:///usr/share/doc/python-launchpadlib/docs/files/mugshot.png
<knome> hahah.
<knome> (did "locate mugshot.png")
<knome> ochosi, ping
<slickymaster> yeah, I allready had saw jjfrv8's slide
<knome> yeah, but the layout is now fixed
<slickymaster> the new layout is much better, more modern and fluid
<knome> well, the best thing is that the text fits :P
<slickymaster> yes, the worst thing is that I'm feeling empty :P
<knome> let's have a brainstorm
<knome> what do we want to tell about the user in the slideshow?
<knome> - the customizing features
<knome> - highlight of our applications
<slickymaster> maybe the problem can be the fact that I'm much attached to the already existent text in the slides
<knome> - some commonly dismissed features
<knome> catfish? application finder?
<knome> - whiskermenu?
<knome> - panel layout
<knome> - DOCS, help and support methods
<slickymaster> abd are we to drop every mention to the media and internet applications?
<knome> i just got an idea to do one slide with just some of the default applications listed
<knome> do we want a slide about desktop looks customizing? (yeah)
<knome> - ubuntu software center
<knome> - thanks
<slickymaster> tell me something does the number of slides has to remain the same? 
<knome> not at all
<slickymaster> is that strict
<knome> nope
<knome> pretty much nothing is.
<knome> we can even change the size of the slideshow window if we for some reason want to
<slickymaster> don't think that would work much
<knome> nope, but just giving you the idea how loose we are on everything
<slickymaster> got it
<slickymaster> another thing knome xx_newfeatures.html
<knome> yep?
<slickymaster> is still to be decided where it is going to be placed, right?
<knome> yep, that's why the xx
<slickymaster> thought so
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/defaultapps.png
<knome> slickymaster, give you inspiration?
<knome> as you see, we can do whatever we want...
<slickymaster> well, I'll give another try in the next half an hour
<slickymaster> if nothing comes out, I'll sleep on it and hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow and produce something
<slickymaster> defaultapps.png
<knome> that it is
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> is something we can use to the new features slide
<slickymaster> the concept of the slide that is
<knome> sure, if we find the right content for that format
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/defaultapps2.png
<slickymaster> I'm trying to sketch something up around whiskermenu
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-22
<knome> i have idea for the "desktop" slide
<knome> i'll make the slide emulate... the desktop!
<slickymaster> that's sweet
<knome> if we want to go *really* adventurous, i can even add some hover effects (like a menu opening), but don't hold your breath; we probably don't have space to do too much
<knome> or time, in terms of how long the slide is shown
<slickymaster> and that will also hav an impact in the package size, no?
<slickymaster> have*
<knome> not considerable
<slickymaster> knome: for wiskermenu, two sentences
<slickymaster> Get your favourite applications displayed as a favourites list.  Reorder, remove, and add other entries just by right-clicking on an application result when browsing or searching.
<slickymaster> If favourites just doesnât do it for you, switch to the âRecently Usedâ view and get a list of the 10 most recent applications you've ope
<slickymaster> Get your favourite applications displayed as a favourites list.  Reorder, remove, and add other entries just by right-clicking on an application result when browsing or searching.
<slickymaster> If favourites just doesnÃ¢'â¬â¢t do it for you, switch to the' Ã¢â¬ËRecently Use'â¬â¢ view and get a list of the 10 most recent applications you've op
<slickymaster> what do you think?
<knome> i think your message is cut
<knome> use a pastebin ;)
<slickymaster> yeah, I've past it fom Geany
<slickymaster> from
<slickymaster> pastebin isn'r working
<knome> :P
<knome> use another
<slickymaster> I'll email you
<knome> sure
<slickymaster> sent
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/defaultapps3.png
<slickymaster> it's coming together nicelly
<slickymaster> regarding whislermenu I think that I should add the ability to search for applications from within the menu
<knome> mhm
<knome> re: email; yep, not bad.
<slickymaster> lol, when you get to mhm, there's something coming my way
<knome> hah! :)
<slickymaster> id you saw what I said ^^Ã
<slickymaster> about the ability to search for applications from within the menu.
<knome> yep
<knome> that's a good addition
<slickymaster> so, now my question is, will it replace an existing slide or it would be an addittion?
<knome> depends
<knome> the default apps slide replaces quite many
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> and jjfrv8 at least two
<knome> what was the other slide?
<knome> actually
<slickymaster> second please
<knome> i think it's time to stop playing around
<knome> let me push a new version in a branch soon.
<knome> currently, we're down to 5 slides
<knome> + one for "help"
<knome> + one for whiskermenu
<slickymaster> the other slide you were asking is the 05_desktop.html
<knome> hmm, not really
<knome> well
<slickymaster> it refers, at least 2/3 of it, to what jjfrv8 is elaborating in his
<knome> that's replaced by the panel layout slide
<slickymaster> you're right, and actually some of it will be replaced by the potential wiskermenu slide
<slickymaster> the "The launcher panel gives you quick access to your most important applications. It is set to ...." sentence
<knome> pushin
<knome> g
<slickymaster> "Master the ability to search for applications from within the menu."
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1404-planning
<knome> look at that.
<slickymaster> what do you think, too much, isn't it?
<slickymaster> going to pull it
<knome> smells a bit like marketing ;)
<slickymaster> a lot like :P
<slickymaster> my connection is lousy tonight
<knome> bzr branch --lightweight lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1404-planning
<knome> that should help
<knome> wait
<knome> what's that command again
<slickymaster> it's almost done now
<slickymaster> let me build it
<knome> bzr checkout --lightweight ...
<knome> but that doesn't seem like lightweight :P
<knome> the branch has so much history
<knome> and i guess it still needs to pull in quite much stuff
<slickymaster> already builed it and saw it
<knome> so, what do we think? :)
<slickymaster> assuming that it's not the final number of slides
<knome> not at all
<slickymaster> i do like it
<knome> and as you might guess, not all the content is final ;)
<knome> so do you think we should refrain from adding more slides?
<knome> or that we need more?
<slickymaster> neither actually
<slickymaster> I think you should be straight to the point
<knome> my guess is that we might need a few more slides
<knome> but that's still okay, and in the area of what i was thinking
<knome> currently, the slideshow feels a bit end-heavy
<knome> having the apps+help+thanks slides
<slickymaster> but the present layou is more interconnected with the all ambience theme of xubuntu
<knome> yep
<knome> i'm wondering if we should do something that "breaks" the layout in the first slide
<knome> centered text?
<slickymaster> you're thinking of a total of what? 7 slides?
<knome> no header banner?
<knome> we currently have 6 in that branch
<knome> +1 for whisker
<knome> +1 for desktop looks customizin
<slickymaster> help
<knome> +1-2 for other stuff
<slickymaster> yeah
<knome> so around 10ish
<slickymaster> ten would be a good number to calculate the time of each during the install
<slickymaster> install time / 10 
<knome> lol
<knome> i think our calculators are able to do more complex calculations so we don't need to hit an even number ;)
<slickymaster> about breaking up the layout, I would go with the no header Ãoption
<slickymaster> yeah, just joking ;)
<knome> the problem with that is how to theme the forward-button
<knome> i'd rather keep it visible anyway
<knome> even if we could force it to be hidden in the first slide
<knome> i'll try that.
<knome> well, meh, no
<slickymaster> not getting it
<knome> then the user can't proceed and must wait 1/10 of the installation slide on that slide
<knome> i think i'll try that anyway.
<slickymaster> now I get i
<slickymaster> it
<knome> hmm,
<knome> actually it's not so easy
<slickymaster> while you try it, I'm going to smoke a cigarette
<knome> heh
<knome> i was thinking maybe i'll leave it
<knome> i'm probably deciding to leave it visible anyway so... ;)
<slickymaster> in the first one?
<knome> yeah.
<knome> that allows the user to go forward quickly if they want
<slickymaster> and people do tend to be eager and feel the compulsion to do it
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> trying to think in a header for the whisker slide
<slickymaster> while I smoke
<knome> my experience says
<knome> leave it to dead last
<knome> it depends so much on what the next/prev slide is called
<slickymaster> haven't thought of it that way, but I have a feelling you might be right
<knome> but feel free to think something
<knome> it might be good to have at least a draft
<slickymaster> I'm going to use your empty layout's slides
<knome> by all means
<slickymaster> just to add the text
<knome> tell me if you'd like to test alternative layouts :)
<slickymaster> I do like this layout
<knome> meh,
<knome> dropping the header doesn't really work
<knome> maybe make the whole slide darker?
<slickymaster> how much darker? it can't be too much
<knome> as dark as the header :)
<slickymaster> hmm that might wotk
<knome> nope.
<knome> the transition doesn't work with that
<slickymaster> have you tried to centered the text?
<knome> i did
<knome> well, not the text, but the headers
<slickymaster> even though I don't think it would work
<knome> that didn't work
<knome> and i don't think it would work with the text either
<knome> but i can try...
<knome> centering it to full slideshow width doesn't work
<knome> centering it in the space it is now looks barely different, but makes it less legible
<slickymaster> besides those, anything comes to mind?
<knome> not right now
<knome> maybe some artwork on the left hand side
<knome> because that's not affected by the transition
<knome> but that might affect how the rest of the slide looks, the text on the right hand side might be a bit odd
<slickymaster> the size of the artwork would be crucial
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> we do have also to get the png's for the new applications
<knome> sure
<knome> but that's a minor headache
<knome> i can do placeholders for beta
<slickymaster> comyes, comparatively, is
<slickymaster> knome: http://pastebin.com/WbX66HkJ
<knome> blah @ shots
<knome> i think we can have at maximum 2 screenshots
<knome> and not in following slides
<slickymaster> did you saw my proposal?
<slickymaster> including the header
<knome> yep
<knome> the shots comment was directed at that ;)
<knome> but the content looks good as it is
<slickymaster> well the shots tag is an existence
<knome> hehe
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> I think that only one will suffice
<slickymaster> for that slide
<knome> shot?
<knome> i was thinking at max two shots for the whole slideshow ;)
<slickymaster> don't you think we'll end up with a slideshow too heavy on text?
<knome> it doesn't need to be text, but no screenshots for every slide plz ;)
<jjfrv8> you guys are having all the fun :)
<knome> heh
<slickymaster> we'll be pulling out hair in no time jjfrv8 
<slickymaster> but going back to the whisker one, do you think I can leave that text and move to another or do you think it can still be tweaked knome 
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: http://pastebin.com/WbX66HkJ
<knome> let's leave it like that, we can improve after the beta
<slickymaster> what do you think?
<knome> my goal is to have something new for the betas
<knome> then improve on that
<slickymaster> hm hm
<knome> because with the betas, and testing, lots of people NEED to look at those
<knome> and they will notice us if the slides are crappy :)
<jjfrv8> should we be using US English spelling?
<jjfrv8> or does this stuff get translated?
<knome> jjfrv8, i guess pleia2 would argue on that :)
<slickymaster> as for new slides there's still the help left to do, right?
<knome> i've updated my branch
<knome> yeah, but that's pretty easy to lay down
<knome> then there's the desktop customization
<knome> which we need to do with ochosi
<knome> oh, that reminds me
<slickymaster> of...?
<knome> gtk-theme-config.
<knome> release notes
<slickymaster> hasn't ochosi already wrote something about it in the pad?
<knome> nope
<knome> he hasn't wrote much anything yet :)
<knome> i'm the violet AND light blue :)
<knome> now i'm the light blue and light blue
<slickymaster> oh thought that was ochosi 
<knome> nah ;)
<knome> i guess ochosi is the brownish one
<slickymaster> I always get stuck with the :P
<knome> "the :P"
<slickymaster> the pad is assuming I'm pleia2 
<knome> hahah
<slickymaster> pink 
<knome> but... was there other ideas for the slideshow atm?
<slickymaster> we began to diverge
<jjfrv8> I'm just looking at it now. The previous version had a bunch of blank slides. This one looks better.
<knome> but that's best ;)
<knome> jjfrv8, that's intentional. i just wanted it out :)
<knome> will eventually push it to the main branch with cleanup etc.
<slickymaster> knome: do you want me to branch the whisker slide?
<knome> slickymaster, it's in my latest
<slickymaster> haven't pulled it yet
<knome> brb
<knome> hmph, right
<knome> anything you might need from me now?
<knome> considering going to bed soonish
<slickymaster> nopes knome 
<slickymaster> I'm also heading to the same place myself
<knome> hmm, i don't think there's room for us both
<jjfrv8> not tonight but what do you want me to do next?
<knome> you can have the sofa
<jjfrv8> lol
<slickymaster> nahhh
<knome> jjfrv8, if you can improve the slideshow someway, that's welcome
<knome> jjfrv8, or just the xfdesktop docs
<knome> jjfrv8, or if you have ideas for the website stuff...
<jjfrv8> I finished the latter (I hope)
<knome> anything really. we aren't in a big rush yet
 * knome looks at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-docs
<slickymaster> will you both be around tomorrow?
<knome> slickymaster, i will be, but no promises of certain times
<knome>  [jjfrv8] Write documentation for MenuLibre: INPROGRESS
<knome> jjfrv8, is that done?
<jjfrv8> I just meant on the slideshow. slickymaster, I'll only be available from about 14 to 16.
<knome> ah, heh
<knome> i don't know
<knome> you can write the docs/help slide
<knome> or think if we still miss something
<knome> i really don't know at this point
<knome> need to see all the stuff pulled together before being able to say if it still needs something
<jjfrv8> menulibre is still waiting for bluesabre's final release from last weekend, but it's mostly complete.
<knome> okay
<slickymaster> there's still the desktop slide to be rewriten
<knome> that needs the artwork
<slickymaster> yeasps
<jjfrv8> i'll have to read the backlog to digest all the brainstorming you guys did so I don't go where I shouldn't
<knome> not sure how i'll do it, but you proably should leave that to me
<knome> because i'm pretty sure it will need some aligning
<slickymaster> lol as you're at it jjfrv8, also read -off backlog
<knome> about the artists? :P
<knome> not much there
<slickymaster> you'll find some good tips of music o go along while you read the -devel backlog
<knome> hehe :)
<knome> considering you like jazz
<slickymaster> well guys, Im off for today
<knome> night slickymaster :)
<slickymaster> yes, considering that
<slickymaster> cy 
<jjfrv8> later, dude
<slickymaster> good night to the both
<slickymaster> ->
<knome> yeah, i'm off as well
<knome> nighty, and thanks jjfrv8 
<knome> ping me if you need to ask anything, and i'll reply when i get back
<jjfrv8> thank you, sir, and good night
<knome> ->
<jjfrv8> ochosi, Preferences ready for your review.
<jjfrv8> It's pretty sparse. I tried to just hit the highlights so as not to duplicate what's in Usage. I hope that's what you intended.
<jjfrv8> knome, my attempt: http://imagebin.org/294955
<jjfrv8> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/help-support
<jjfrv8> back later today
<Noskcaj> ali1234, Is the patch for bug 1282509 safe for me to package for xubuntu? Also, are there any other patches i should include
<ubottu> bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282509
<ochosi> morning everyone
<Noskcaj> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hey Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> Any patches we need for xfdesktop except the one for bug 1282509
<ubottu> bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282509
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i don't think it's a good idea to package that straight away
<ochosi> i'm sure eric will look at that as soon as he can
<ochosi> no need to rush a bugfix when the patch is only a workaround for a problem we don't understand yet
<Noskcaj> yeah, i was waiting for someone who understands it to confirm it. Just getting the preparation done
<ochosi> (we can do that if it isn't fixed in the last minute)
<ochosi> it's even possible that there'll be a .4 bugfix release in time, who knows
<ochosi> but anyway, waiting for eric's feedback is a good start
<ochosi> should be a lesson to test things before uploading...
<Noskcaj> yeah. I always want someone to have tested it, at least for patches
<ochosi> yeah, but also for releases
<ochosi> i mean at least with this one there was no need to rush it as it was bugfix-only
<ochosi> so we could've pushed it anytime
<ochosi> anyhoo, i think now the sponsors are taking a day or two of rest after FF
<ochosi> seems very quiet over there
<Noskcaj> yeah, i've got a fair few things already, mostly ubuntu gnome
<Noskcaj> Is there much that xubuntu still needs done this cycle?
<ochosi> there are a few things that are coming up before UI freeze
<ochosi> we might need another upload for xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> and another for shimmer-themes
<ochosi> as there were some fixes already, and some are still to-do
<ochosi> could be that light-locker-settings will need a bugfix update, as it's a young application, so possible that people stubmle upon bugs
<Noskcaj> ok. ping me if xubuntu-artwork get's another commit, it's still not uploaded
<Noskcaj> i should probably get off the computer now, bye
<Noskcaj> although light-locker-settings isn't in the repo yet
<ochosi> sergio-br2: i just pushed a few mimes
<ochosi> also one for 96px that you can use as template for other mimes
<sergio-br2> good
<ochosi> also started to work on some social icons
<ochosi> and i'm considering to drop the social/ folder alltogether
<ochosi> just noticed it isn't even in use (not listed in index.theme)
<ochosi> unless you know of an app that uses the social/16 part
<ochosi> (social/48 has been merged to apps/48)
<sergio-br2> ochosi, is it possible to merge only some commits?
<ali1234> ochosi: lightdm-gtk-greeter has some funny bug with the background
<ali1234> if you have overlapping monitors it draws stuff all over the place
<ali1234> also the accountservice link seems to be broken
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, currently it doesn't very actively handle multi-monitor situations
<ochosi> it's on our roadmap for the next version, but if you wanna contribute a patch, feel free to
<ochosi> what's broken with accountsservice exactly? the wallpaper? if so, are you using the latest version of xfdesktop? (i ported the patch for 4.11)
<brainwash> ochosi: the black email header issue has been fixed in the latest evolution package (ubuntu)
<brainwash> I've noticed another thing which has been mentioned here by elfy I think
<brainwash> the infobar in the login box is different when I use greybird from the shimmer-themes package
<brainwash> basically no background and red font
<ali1234> ochosi: trouble is i think that xfdesktop needs reworking first
<knome> many slicky masters
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-23
<brainwash> ali1234: what's broken in xfdesktop?
<ali1234> what *isn't* broken? :)
<ali1234> the whole multiple desktop and workspace thing... doesn't work
<ali1234> and when you relog it resets the wallpaper to default
<brainwash> only tested it once, set a different wallpaper for every workspace and it worked and was consistent
<ali1234> yes, that's the *only* case where it works properly :)
<ali1234> where you set a unique wallpaper for every monitor and workspace, without any spanning
<brainwash> oh
<ali1234> if you have two monitors and you set a wallpaper to spanning it doesn't work properly, and if you set "same on all workspaces" it doesn't work properly
<ali1234> when you start it up it tries to get the wallpaper for each workspace and monitor
<ali1234> if that fails it looks for legacy settings
<ali1234> the new version uses the monitor plug name, legacy uses the number
<ali1234> that means that defaults have to be set using legacy, because we can't know the plug name in advance, it's something like "DVI-I-0"
<ali1234> but that means that there is always a legacy setting
<brainwash> is the monitor naming consistent or does it change?
<ali1234> it's consistent on a single machine if you don't even unplug anything
<ali1234> so anyway, there are legacy settings in the defaults.xml, which means they can't be deleted
<ali1234> that means when you log in and you didn't specify a wallpaper for some monitor or workspace, it tries to load the legacy setting and that resets your whole system to defaults
<ali1234> also sometimes it loads up the default wallpaper and then quickly changes to what you asked for
<brainwash> wow, so much fun with a multi monitor setup
<brainwash> + xfdesktop :)
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and further more i can't even set the wallpaper on all my monitors because some of them overlap
<ali1234> setting a wallpaper on those monitors wouldn't even make sense
<brainwash> so xfdesktop and lightdm-gtk-greeter really need some multi monitor rework
<ali1234> looks like it
<ali1234> i guess you've seen what gtk-greeter does when monitors overlap?
<brainwash> no, only running single monitor setups here
<ali1234> oh... well it draws the wallpaper multiple times
<ali1234> it's not pretty
<brainwash> did you also test unity-greeter?
<ali1234> no
<brainwash> maybe we can do some copy&paste
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> probably not though
<ali1234> hang on let me try it...
<brainwash> at least to get an idea on how to improve it (in case unity-greeter handles it better)
<ali1234> heh
<ali1234> brb
<brainwash> xfce4-session-4.11.0 has been released
<Noskcaj> How much of the new 4.11 stuff do we want for 14.04?
<Noskcaj> Everything but session is now packaged for debian
<brainwash> should we go full 4.11? :)
<Noskcaj> If the release team allows it, i want to
<Noskcaj> minimum is settings bugfix release, ui bugfix release, garcon
<brainwash> I see lots of bugfixes in the various changelogs
<brainwash> maybe it's worth to ship the full 4.11 setup
<ali1234> how do i change the lightdm greeter?
<ali1234> ochosi: accounts service background works in test mode but not in the real login window
<ali1234> ok so unity-greeter is even more hilariously broken
<ali1234> it doesn't honour the monitor layout at all
<ali1234> so by default all the monitors do not overlap (it just uses whatever the xorg default is)
<ali1234> that means you have to reconfigure your monitor layout after every login
<ali1234> i suspect if it wasn't horribly broken it would show the same thing as gtk-greeter does, which is this: http://imagebin.org/295107
<brainwash> ali1234: this would drive me nuts
<ali1234> well it's better than what unity-greeter does
<ali1234> which is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1283615/+attachment/3992319/+files/IMG_20140223_005551.jpg
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1283615 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "unity-greeter ignores user monitor configuration" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> at least it is *functional*
<brainwash> mmh, makes me wonder.. was multi monitor support always that bad?
<brainwash> or do we see some sort of regression here
<brainwash> maybe hardware/driver related?
<ali1234> unity greeter used to work properly with xorg.conf
<ali1234> it isn't driver related
<ali1234> with unity-greeter you get the default layout as if you had no xorg.conf
<ali1234> they've obviously decided to ignore it
<ali1234> which is pants-on-head retarded, so about right for unity
<ali1234> but yeah, multimonitor support has always been terrible. nvidia is the only way to make it work ina reasonable way
<ali1234> and they did it by rewriting half the xorg stack
<ali1234> that bug does not affect unity-webkit-greeter btw
<ali1234> and probably not lightdm-kde-greeter either
<brainwash> not at all?
<ali1234> the webkit one does something very similar to what the gtk one does with multiple backgrounds
<ali1234> but it honours the monitor layout like it should
<brainwash> maybe I should extend my laptop screen with another monitor and do some testing
<ali1234> that would be cool
<Unit193> Oh right, how did the CC catch up go?
<forestpiskie> it didn't
<elfy> lderan: you managed to get anywhere writing testcase for your app?
<lderan> elfy, is this on the right tracks http://paste.ubuntu.com/6981366/ ?
<elfy> lderan: yep that looks fine to me - get it in to bzr push lp:~YOURUSERID/ubuntu-manual-tests/YOURBRANCHNAME
<elfy> then I'll check/approve and sync it
<lderan> \o/ will do so now
<elfy> ok :)
<lderan> and i think i've just found a bug with thunar
<elfy> I bet it's a known issue :p
<lderan> bet so
<lderan> if you have 2 rename dialog boxes open the first stops working fully :P
<elfy> I can't even open 2 rename dialogues from the same instance of thunar - works fine with another thunar opened
<lderan> it partially works for me, the apply button on the first one opens doesn't close the box, but the apply button on the 2nd closes both
<elfy> can't confirm that as I can't even get that far :)
<lderan> :P
<elfy> lderan: when you've done that testcase and I've synced the tracker - I'll do a call for testing - but I don't remember the PPA 
<lderan> shall try to find it for you
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> biab
<lderan> elfy: https://launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/+archive/stable , trust at the moment
<elfy> lderan: in future when you do a mr for testcases - don't number them :)
<elfy> someone might be syncing one and the number will be wrong ;)
<lderan> oh sorry
<elfy> lderan: you sure you've finished it? the first 2 tests look decidedly odd and the <dd><dd> won't work :)
<elfy> off for a few hours now 
<lderan> shall check it :)
<elfy> can you check spelling too please :)
<elfy> cya later
<lderan> cheerio
<elfy> minuter - must have then copy pasted the same word elsewhere lol
<lderan> gah apologies
<elfy> ochosi: will get this testcase synced and then called for later today
<ochosi> elfy: which one?
<elfy> light-locker-settings
<ochosi> oh great
<ochosi> ty
<lderan> elfy, have redone it :P hopefully all okay now 
<ochosi> elfy: shouldn't it be "sudo apt-get update" instead of "upgrade"?
<ochosi> (re: ML test-case announcement)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, you still here?
<elfy> lderan: thanks - all done
<elfy> ochosi: yep ... 
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I can't stick around but wanted to ask something about light-locker...
<jjfrv8> after testing the light-locker-settings ppa, I tried the light-locker testcase...
<jjfrv8> when I click Suspend and go to resume, it brings up the old, flaming xScreensaver dialog. That's not right, is it?
<elfy> jjfrv8: purge xscreensaver 
<jjfrv8> alright, let me try that.
<jjfrv8> elfy, that's better. Thanks. Can't keep all the stuff I read in the logs in my head :(
<elfy> I did have a note in the testcase to make sure that was done - was sure that the seed had been fixed to not include xscreensaver
<jjfrv8> apparently not, this was on a fresh install from today's daily
<elfy> mmm 
<Unit193> Fix Committed, not Fix Released.
<elfy> thanks Unit193 
<jjfrv8> ochosi, also wanted to make sure you had seen that xfesktop Prefs is ready for review.
<jjfrv8> bbl
<ochosi> thanks jjfrv8 
<ochosi> will review tomorrow
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2014/02/23/logging-in-with-ubuntu-one/
<knome> ochosi, you feeling better today?
<Noskcaj> Anyone know where micahg went? He's usually online in some form
 * knome wonders how the liquid micah types
<knome> or the gas-form micah
<elfy> very very carefully in both cases
<Noskcaj> :)
<knome> compressed air then i guess
<brainwash_> Noskcaj: bug 1282509 has been fixed upstream, what is the next step now? normal merge request in ubuntu, debdiff or fix it in debian and sync?
<ubottu> bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282509
<Noskcaj> I'll ask corsac. The sponsor queue is pretty big currently
<brainwash_> ok, I'm a bit lost, not sure what the best move would be
<ali1234> why did thunar get SRU'd in 13.10?
<Noskcaj> it did?
<ali1234> the update is crashing all over the place
<ali1234> apparently
<ali1234> Noskcaj: can you see error reports on errors.ubuntu.com?
<ali1234> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/cb0629c4765654432162e73197d145eea640134a
<Noskcaj> ali1234, No i can't
<Noskcaj> although it doesn't look SRUed
<ali1234> hmm... maybe i'm reading it wrong
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/i386/thunar
<ali1234> ah, uploaded two months before release
<ali1234> anyway, there's 17000 reports of that problem ^
<ali1234> it's the old magazing_chain_pop_head nonsense again, crashing deep inside glib
<Noskcaj> I thought  that was fixed in saucy
<ali1234> still crashing in trusty
<ali1234> it's on the top 100 most common bugs
<Noskcaj> wow. Is there an upstream bugfix?
<brainwash_> I did not notice any thunar crashes in trusty so far
<ali1234> there is a bug report on launchpad but i can't see that
<ali1234> bug 1203296
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1203296 could not be found
<ali1234> 65th most common bug in ubuntu in the past day
<ali1234> the xfdesktop bug was 48th
<brainwash_> all marked as private?
<Noskcaj> public now
<Noskcaj> bug 1203296
<ubottu> bug 1203296 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203296
<Noskcaj> the xfdesktop fix is done in debian.
<brainwash_> that's great, so it will be ready for ubuntu B1, right :)
<ali1234> hmm... so of the top 10 most frequent crashers in xubuntu, thunar is number 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 10
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, Provided corsac uploads it
<ali1234> and it looks like most of that is magazine_chain_pop_head - which means memory corruption
<Noskcaj> ali1234, wow
<brainwash_> in trusty?
<ali1234> in all versions, past 24 hours
<brainwash_> how is that even possible?! =S
<brainwash_> ah, I recall reading about this
<brainwash_> something related to "Pane Side -> Tree is enabled."
<brainwash_> the tree view
<ali1234> it does look like the bug was introduced between 1.6.2. and 1.6.3
<ali1234> or maybe not
<ali1234> there are like 3 reports of it with 1.6.2 and 20000 with 1.6.3
<ali1234> hmm i see some changes to g_list code... that's the same thing that crashed xfce-terminal
<ali1234> argh... yeah, this is it
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=d5b6768a104786b44542522768d6263cff07a886
<ali1234> bad commit...
<Noskcaj> it was terminal that we patched to stop magazine_pop_chain, maybe the patch can be modified to thunar
<ali1234> magazine_chain_pop_head crashes are very generic
<ali1234> it just means the program did a double free or something
<ali1234> that commit is suspicious but it might not be it
<ali1234> any g_list code would be a place to look though
<ali1234> especially when using prepend
<Noskcaj> ok
<ali1234> basically it means memory was corrupted... it could have happened anywhere in the program, backtraces are not useful :(
<ali1234> some more g_list stuff here: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=58fa477fb20aa2ac8eaea8d81d7e4d8c00180600
<ali1234> of course it could even be in a plugin...
<brainwash_> how do you trigger the memory corruption? with the tree view?
<Noskcaj> Do we want dev-tool or libxfce4util 4.11? both just got uploaded
<Noskcaj> util is probably too big a package to do this late, but dev-tools is probably safe to sync
<ali1234> brainwash_: i don't know
<ali1234> brainwash_: opening the tree view takes a suspiciously long time
<brainwash_> ali1234: not here, 2sec
<ali1234> 2 sec is too long
<brainwash_> not for a very slow HDD
<brainwash_> but still.. nothing crashes
<ali1234> Noskcaj: can you see this page? https://errors.ubuntu.com/?user=a-j-buxton&period=day
<ali1234> (or anyone else for that matter)
<Noskcaj> yep. Turns out i wasn't logged in
<ali1234> that page should be visible to anyone i think
<Unit193> It is.
<ali1234> Noskcaj: watch out when making bug reports public, that thunar one has a torrent download filename in it
<Noskcaj> My one?
<ali1234> 1203296
<Noskcaj> Oops, must have missed that
<ali1234> that guy likes his torrents, lots on the dupes too
<Noskcaj> Is it private info though?
<ali1234> i dunno
<brainwash_> not the usual linux distro torrents? :D
<ali1234> it's evidence of illegal activity though
<bluesabre> quick, append "-parody" to each of them
<ali1234> lots of the dupes were made public by apport
<ali1234> this is on ProcCmdLine: field btw
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> "This incident occurred when closing Thunar after moving a file from my  PC hard drive to my external drive. The cut/paste operation was  complete, I clicked the "X" to close Thunar and got the "Ubuntu  experienced an error" message."
<ali1234> "Thunar crashed after pressing the close button"
<ali1234> "I closed thunar, this error happened"
<ali1234> well, that's a pattern if i ever saw one
<Noskcaj> thunar has a heap of different errors when it closes. I just made a bug for another one
<ali1234> "I closed Thunar, and got this error. Pane Side -> Tree is enabled."
<ali1234> it has all different errors because memory is getting randomly corrupted somewhere
<ali1234> that can cause many different symptoms, but the root cause is almost certainly the same
<ali1234> if you can find a way to reliably reproduce it...
<ali1234> something is overwriting random bits of memory
<ali1234> probably an uninitialized pointer somewhere
<ali1234> it's particularly telling that all the bugs have roughly the same frequency except for the top one or two
<ali1234> well, most happened only once
<brainwash_> I'm not affected, because I don't move big torrent downloads from A to B :)
<brainwash_> but thunar needs some cosmetic fixes, 1) use correct icon for "open with" menu entry 2) sort "open with..." sub menu 3) use theme color for selection rectangle
<brainwash_> I'll put it on my todo list
<ali1234> which versions of thunar have shipped in xubuntu releases?
<ali1234> !info thunar precise
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.3-3ubuntu2 (precise), package size 311 kB, installed size 898 kB
<ali1234> !info thunar quantal
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.0-1ubuntu2.1 (quantal), package size 315 kB, installed size 909 kB
<ali1234> !thunar raring
<ali1234> !info thunar raring
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.2-0ubuntu1 (raring), package size 320 kB, installed size 899 kB
<ali1234> hmmmmmmmmmm
<brainwash_> ?!
<ali1234> this bug has never been reported with raring as far as i can tell
<ali1234> so it may be a bug in some library
<brainwash_> glib?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> some xfce library that only thunar uses
<ali1234> !info thunar saucy
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.3-1ubuntu1 (saucy), package size 314 kB, installed size 904 kB
<ali1234> 1.6.2 showed the bug in saucy but not raring, and that was during development
<ali1234> although actually, it *could* be due to glib changes... same thing happened with xfce-terminal
<brainwash_> shouldn't there be reports outside of the ubuntu universe too?
<ali1234> yes, but frankly... where?
<Noskcaj> arch, debian, suse, mint?
<ali1234> the only reason i'm seeing these reports is because of automatic error reporting
<ali1234> i think people tend not to report one-off unreproducable crashes
<ali1234> mainly because triagers just close the bugs if they can't be reproduced
<ali1234> i think the only option here is to go through the code and audit it by hand :(
<ali1234> cppcheck didn't find anything obvious, valgrind isn't showing any corruption... i don't know what else to try
<ali1234> i'm actually impressed we even got on the top 100 bugs... must be a lot of users out there
<ali1234> especially since it seems pretty hard to reproduce
<knome> humm, i'm seeing a debian wallpaper on the installer...
<knome> :)
<Noskcaj> ali1234, yay?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-16
<Unit193> knome: Herro?
<knome> yes?
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> So see comments about translations?  Do you have admin rights on there?  Can you look at info?  Does it not import if it's set to 'development'?
 * Unit193 is starting to really dislike translations. :P
<knome> i'll check
 * Unit193 has started getting the hang of transifex, though still doesn't get the autocommits, easier than LP!
<Unit193> Yey!
<knome>  Translations are imported with every update from branch lp:xubuntu-docs. 
<Unit193> Hmm.
<Unit193> Well whatever.. :/
 * Unit193 doesn't have to care.
<knome> well if that's the problem, i can request a one-time import
<knome> there isn't anything that is not open on the import queue at least
<knome>  	desktop-guide/po/desktop-guide.pot in Xubuntu Documentation vivid series 	
<knome> Imported
<knome> 	
<knome> Uploaded by Pasi Lallinaho on 2015-02-15 01:50:22 EET
<knome> are you sure it's not fixed now?
<Unit193> Yeah, saw the queue.
<knome> in what sizes and shapes would you like me to saw it into?
<Unit193> Did a pull, nothing new.
<knome> since when has this been lagging?
<knome> off to bed. nighty and ttyl
<Unit193> G'night.
<bluesabre> release done, https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/2.0/2.0.0, now to package it up :)
<bluesabre> so many updates for the greeter packaging
<bluesabre> >.<
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> wow, he has done a good job with the settings (gtk3 + settings manager integration!) http://i.imgur.com/TMYRS7X.png
<Unit193> Wow indeed.
<elfy> Unit193: that's really just :| 
<elfy> and I thought the background behind try/install was fubar as well, then I see the wallpaper is changed and isn't blue or pink :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: wowza, the gtk3 plug is nice! the 100% tab-width is a bit funny ;)
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> morning elfy
<ochosi> what background where?
<elfy> wallpaper in vivid 
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/FhBwsI3.png
<elfy> if you look carefully you'll see ibus in the panel too ... 
<elfy> Unit193: any idea what's causing it?
<Unit193> elfy: Might, tried a fix a few hours ago so we'll see with the next images.
<elfy> okey doke 
<elfy> I'll see lunchtimeish then 
<elfy> thanks
<ochosi> ah good, the "in development" wallpaper has made it :)
<elfy> yea:)
<ochosi> wait, indicator-keyboard?
<ochosi> did you install that?
<ochosi> and indicator-datetime
<elfy> nope - that's what I'm talking to Unit193 about 
<elfy> http://paste.openstack.org/show/7HZrBRWkuUeNOVixOTdU/
<Unit193> Wow, someone reads me.
<elfy> of course :)
<ochosi> k, i see
<ochosi> that diff reminds me a bit of 14.04.2
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh was supposed to tell you, ll is up in staging, source package in /source/ on sigma.
<Unit193> So images pop out 12:00utc?
<elfy> a bit before iirc - round about 11:00utc 
<Unit193> Ah, 6am...
<elfy> no - that was hours ago now :p
<elfy> anyway - what did you do to hopefully fix?
<Unit193> Pushed a fix to the seed.
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> I see 
<elfy> it's going to be one of those days is it ;)
<Unit193> Also, should have light-locker to pull from a PPA.
<ochosi> well, if it's really lightdm that is at fault then i guess it's going to be an easy fix
<Unit193> What makes you think lightdm?
<ochosi> Unit193: as you're not in release, i
<ochosi> 'll repeat it here :)
<ochosi> lightdm's debian/control file contains this line "unity-greeter | lightdm-greeter | lightdm-kde-greeter"
<elfy> ochosi: he is in there 
<ochosi> while it should say "lightdm-gtk-greeter"
<ochosi> oh, he is?
<Unit193> ochosi: That's not the problem.  gtk provides lightdm-greeter.
<ochosi> weird, why did my autocomplete fail then
<elfy> yea - he's daleksec ... 
<ochosi> awwwh, man
<ochosi> that's just annoying
<elfy> at least when I'm goblin, I'm goblin everywhere :D
<ochosi> Unit193: would be cool if you could step in and enlighten darkst and seb if you know more than us
<Unit193> Wasn't looking.  I'm eating cookies. :(
<Unit193> And, don't know for sure, but we'll see.
<ochosi> anyway, i think they're figuring it out on their own already
<DalekSec> Seed issues, shouldn't happen but oh well.
<Unit193> Or, chances might be.
<ochosi> talking to yourself..? :)
<Unit193> You, cupcake.
<ochosi> hehe
 * ochosi likes it when Unit193 or DalekSec call him cupcake
<ochosi> (or at least i prefer it to "sir")
<Unit193> hah, weeeird preferences there, man.
<elfy> heh
<elfy> you get used to that 'sir' business from there - sometimes it's 'dear' and sometimes it is both 'dear sir' 
<ochosi> one step at a time, next would be "sir cupcake"
<Unit193> Yes, babe.
<elfy> Unit193: what are you using to show those diffs? 
<Unit193> diff?
<elfy> http://paste.openstack.org/show/7HZrBRWkuUeNOVixOTdU/
<elfy> oic - just diff
<elfy> so nvm - because that's obviously not *just* diff if you ask me
<Unit193> elfy: Why not?
<elfy> not pretty colours :(
<elfy> lol
<Unit193> pastebinit -f diff
<elfy> aah k - thanks
<Unit193> Sure.
<elfy> was looking for something to use locally rather than pasting - hence my confusion :D
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, unless you strongly disagree, I'm going to give my ok to https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/fixes/+merge/249768
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: if i understand this correctly, that means that translations that are only 70% complete will also be included?
<knome> ochosi, ja 
<slickymasterWork> exactly, currently it will potential mean that we'll ship two - three idioms other then the two were already shipping 
<knome> 122 responses on our survey
<knome> more than half still consider themselves power users
<knome> 6 use the accessibility options in xubuntu
<knome> which is interesting, because i don't know exactly what those would be
<knome> 39% use xubuntu for software development, so i'm not sure if we still have a descriptive sample...
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: i saw you discussed this with others already in the channel, i don't disagree with you (despite not having a good idea of the status quo of docs-translations), anyway i trust you on this
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> also, 28 people want to know more about contributing to xubuntu
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: let's hope it's a good incentive for ppl to contribute to docs translations
<knome> now that we've asked that, we might want to consider how do we contact them :)
<slickymasterWork> didn't they left an email?
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> ochosi, at least it gives me more time to slack off until fi is dropped ;P
<ochosi> yeah, secret recruiting routine ;)
<knome> slickymasterWork, sure, but that's just half of the story
<knome> who sends them email
<knome> what do they say
<slickymasterWork> just a generic text emphasizing what is the regular process to start to contribute, iei, areas and ways to do it
<knome> well my idea is that since they came to the form, filled it, and specifically wanted to know more... it would be nice to be not a generic one :P
<brainwash> bluesabre, greeter 2.0 has no transparency effects (panel and login window corners). it also loads the default background first and then fades to the user one, but that's maybe intentional
<knome> but of course it needs to be a preset one, we don't know about their preferences
<slickymasterWork> yeah
<knome> but it would be nice if it was something else than something from the website
<knome> or we can test them with some new stuff
<slickymasterWork> new stuff?
<knome> like /getinvolved/teams/ on the staging server
<slickymasterWork> I see, that could be a good idea
<knome> even if i say myself, that's a fantastic idea
<knome> got to go now though
<knome> bbl, hf :)
<slickymasterWork> you too knome 
<knome> will try to..
<knome> ->
<ochosi> brainwash: simple-scan is fine
<ochosi> let's take this over here
<ochosi> obviously it's x/ubuntu specific
<brainwash> yeah
<brainwash> I noticed that I have evince installed and not evince-gtk, not sure if that matters
<brainwash> ok, it doesn't
<bluesabre> brainwash: I think ochosi needs to patch greybird for the greeter 2.0
<bluesabre> and I think the initial bg transitiion is intentional... eases default (plymouth-like) background -> user background
<ochosi> i do?
<bluesabre> I remember andrew p. mentioning something about it way way way way way way back
<ochosi> humm :)
<ochosi> guess i'll have to either read the source again or try to launch gtk-inspector in the greeter
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you add "allow-debugging=true" to the greeter config, you can use gtk-inspector
<brainwash> bluesabre, the fade effect is nice, but not needed is some cases (when relogging, or when the plymouth boot screen is not working properly). maybe it could be made configurable
<ochosi> oh noes, not more configurability
<ochosi> just look at what unity-greeter is doing
<brainwash> I'll disable it on my local machine then
<brainwash> it's a small thing, but it somehow annoys me :)
<ochosi> as long as we don't get many bugreports about stuff like this, let's not touch it
<bluesabre> user-background=false or transition-type=none or transition-duration=0
<brainwash> heh, you can configure it already?
<ochosi> well yes, but you can't configure *when* the transition should happen
<ochosi> so different scenarios like boot vs. logout/lock are not accounted for (and shouldn't be as separate options, that just makes everything too confusing)
<ochosi> anyway, off for lunch
<ochosi> bluesabre: i added a workitem for myself to update greybird btw
<elfy> hi bluesabre brainwash 
<brainwash> hey elfy 
<brainwash> ochosi, bluesabre: I did not take a look at the updated .conf file, so I missed the new options
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, thanks
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<brainwash> the xubuntu-default-settings greeter conf needs to be updated
<bluesabre> yeah, will get to it shortly
<bluesabre> (today/tomorrow)
<brainwash> great :)
<elfy> Unit193: new image - looks no different - still ibus etc
<ochosi> humm, the unlock button also doesn't seem to have the "default button" look anymore
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you get a list of issues together, I can probably patch the greeter for a quick 2.0.1 tonight
<bluesabre> or create a single bug for "theming issues"
<ochosi> yup, i'll take a look, maybe i'll also address it in greybird
<ochosi> those things can usually be fixed two ways
<ochosi> brainwash: wanna create a bugreport for evince and link it to v-bugs?
<ochosi> gotta run, ttyl
<elfy> bluesabre: you likely to set meeting before beta? 
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> does this time on Wednesday work for you, elfy?
<elfy> that'll be this week in case you're not date sure :p
<bluesabre> (this hour)
<elfy> absolutely anytime this week - holiday all week :)
<bluesabre> great
<elfy> hopefully we'll even have a vivid image that's ours by then 
<bluesabre> Scheduled
<bluesabre> elfy: where do I add it to the google calendar again?
<elfy> ummm
<elfy> google calendar
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, "The next meeting is scheduled for Wednesday 23rd of Jan 2015 11:00"
<slickymasterWork> ?!
<bluesabre> what?
<slickymasterWork> 2016 ;)
<elfy> looks right on wiki 
<slickymasterWork> you mail to the ML
<bluesabre> dang it
<bluesabre> bad ML
<slickymasterWork> * your
<slickymasterWork> lol
<elfy> bluesabre: did calendar
<bluesabre> elfy: thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: do you want to begin the motu hunt while I'm out today?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/+bug/1295405
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295405 in Settings editor for LightDM GTK+ Greeter "[needs-packaging] Package and upload to vivid" [Wishlist,In progress]
<bluesabre> See my last comment
<knome> why two?
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> "Two MOTUs must advocate the package."
<knome> i've poked Mirv
<knome> i really should make a list of people i "know" for my sue
<knome> *use
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I wonder if Logan would be willing to sign off on it as well
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> If I was quicker, could have asked micahg last night
<bluesabre> but hadn't started the packaging yet :\
<knome> that's okay
<knome> we'll find the motus
<knome> what else people we might need than ~motu and ~ubuntu-core-dev?
<bluesabre> that should be it... once its uploaded we can move it into the seed and packageset
<knome> i mean generally, not in this case :)
<bluesabre> knome: when is the translations deadline?
<bluesabre> because currently it only has ru
 * knome opens the release schedule for bluesabre
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> march 19
<knome> is the doc string freeze
 * bluesabre runs to the shower to get ready for work
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> april 9 is the deadline for *translations*
<knome> so still good time
<knome> uifreeze is march 12, subject to some docs stuff
<knome> like the installer slideshow
<slickymasterWork> less than a month :P
<knome> the ui freeze, sure
<knome> but generally we are not in a huge rush yet
<slickymasterWork> :)
<andrew_the_p> hi all
<knome> hello
<andrew_the_p> bluesabre: the simpest (at the current moment) way to fix greybird - adding something like "#screen.lightdm-gtk-greeter {background: transparent;}" somewhere in lightdm-gtk-greeter.css
<bluesabre> andrew_the_p: thanks!
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^
<knome> pleia2, ping me when you're around. we need to talk about the policies for incoming messages @xubuntu-contacts
<bluesabre> andrew_the_p: working on getting settings into ubuntu this week :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/+bug/1295405
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295405 in Settings editor for LightDM GTK+ Greeter "[needs-packaging] Package and upload to vivid" [Wishlist,In progress]
<bluesabre> you've done a fantastic job with those, and the xfce integration is a nice bit of flair ;)
<bluesabre> gotta run to work now, bbl
<knome> i like the progress that stuff has been getting lately, both in the xubuntu "in-house" developments, xfce stuff, their ingtegration and much more
<knome> ++ for bluesabre and others who have worked on those :)
<elfy> I can ++ that too :)
<knome> i'll top that off with chocolate cookies for everybody
<knome> IRL too if you happen to be around helsinki :)
<elfy> :)
<andrew_the_p> thx, and about crossfade in greeter: its behavior will be slightly changed in future versions. Some things must be done before it.
<brainwash> ochosi, bug 1422354
<ubottu> bug 1422354 in evince (Ubuntu) "Show traditional titlebar when maximized with no GtkHeaderBar present" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422354
<elfy> we don't use that - evince-gtk works fine here 
<brainwash> elfy, it does? maximize the window
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/MLI323P.png
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Atril is an option ð
<elfy> wut?
<brainwash> well, nice titlebar
<elfy> oic
<elfy> evince works :)
<elfy> titlebar is titlebar 
<brainwash> I did test evince-gtk and it was missing too on my system
<elfy> mmm 
<brainwash> and ochosi can confirm it
<brainwash> and the source code says that it should be hidden when maximized
<ochosi> elfy: what version of xfwm4 is that?
<elfy> ok - can see the fail in the failing daily 
<elfy> 4.11.3-0ubuntu1
<ochosi> yeah 4.11.3 is the version that exposes the problem
<elfy> so why do I have a working version 
<elfy> mind you I'm not surprised - I still appear to have dodgy scrollbars in things even after purging that PPA
<ochosi> right, slightly messed up install maybe ;)
<ochosi> i wouldn't give it too much thought, the problem in evince is well confirmed and explained
<ochosi> and there's a patch, so soon you won't be the only one with a working version
<elfy> entirely possible messed up
<brainwash> only affects Xfce though, just tested with lubuntu, mate and co
<ochosi> brainwash: i suggest you do a MR directly with that patch and i'll follow up with seb128 on that
<knome> bbl
<elfy> ochosi: so - who should we ping about the fubar vivid images ?
<elfy> any idea? 
<ochosi> elfy: fubar images?
<ochosi> what again now?
<ochosi> ah... you mean because of the messed up depends pulling in unity?
<elfy> vivid with unity settings and greeter and ibus
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> hmm good question
<ochosi> i'm not really sure to be honest
<ochosi> pinged Laney again, since he seemed willing to help with 14.04.2
<ochosi> we'll see what comes of it
<elfy> yep saw that - thanks
<ochosi> well thanks for the reminder, we really need to resolve this asap
<elfy> yea, I'll try and spend a bit of time getting my head around it
<elfy> beta arrives next monday/tuesday 
<ochosi> elfy: so Laney kinda suggested we should ping infinity
<ochosi> so let's do that then
<elfy> I did - before you were talking to darkxst
<ochosi> yeah, but that was already a few days ago
<elfy> no - it was this morning at 07:06UTC :)
<ochosi> oh :)
<ochosi> in that case i guess we can give it some time
<elfy> I think he is in the far east or something atm - so timezones even worse :)
<PaulW2U> elfy: hi, sorry, only just seen your "hi" in ubuntu+1 :)
<elfy> :)
<PaulW2U> Don't like the new wallpaper. Is that for keeps? I prefer 14.10's.
<elfy> I'm not really sure what goes on over in the arty department ;)
<ochosi> well this is the "in development" wallpaper that we'll be using each release from now on until there is a final wallpaper
<ochosi> that is to visually indicate "you are using a development version, if you break your thumb because you have to type so much to fix all bugs/problems, we're not at fault"
<elfy> oh - news to me - but fairly logical :)
<PaulW2U> so Xubuntu will remain blue (-ish) ?
<ochosi> very likely
<PaulW2U> \o/
<ochosi> either way, changing the wallpaper/theme really isn't a big deal...
<flexiondotorg_> bluesabre, ochosi, elfy, ali1234 - Just you're aware- http://paste.mate-desktop.org/podvawj9x
<ochosi> luckily most of our stuff uses xfconf
<ochosi> but thanks for the heads up, i read it in #u-devel too btw ;)
<flexiondotorg_> ochosi, Just letting you guys know. I suspect there is other "old" GNOME apps that are affected. Not sure what you ship in Xubuntu but if you encounter weirdness, you know what it is.
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre> hey all
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<ranu> hi :)
<elfy> confusing myself trying to work out why all these messed up depends we've got 
<bluesabre> sounds like an exciting task
<elfy> even more so when it's all double dutch to me ... 
<ochosi> bluesabre: woot, what are you doing around here at this hour??
<bluesabre> snow
<bluesabre> so much snow
<ochosi> also, the greeter-settings build seems to have failed (says Mirv), which is why i haven't pursued that any further
<ochosi> sweet
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> fixing now
<ochosi> btw, do you know of any apps that could be affected by the gsettings problem that was mentioned by flexiondotorg_?
<ochosi> (cause i personally don't)
<bluesabre> ochosi: light-locker, for one
<bluesabre> but it does not seem to be affected
<bluesabre> mugshot and catfish also use gsettings
<bluesabre> but don't seem to be affected
<elfy> giving up - really confused now ... 
<brainwash_> unity 1 - elfy 0
<elfy> well I'd go further than just unity :p
<brainwash_> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, already checked light-locker
<elfy> packages 1 - elfy 0 :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think this is only a problem for oldish apps, of which we don't ship many
<elfy> brainwash_: I ended up at indicator-keyboard somehow 
<brainwash_> elfy, it's a nightmare :)
<brainwash_> bug 1292290 gets bumped regularly with useless comments or status updates, but there is no one to verify the SRU :/
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in Xfwm4 "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<elfy> yep and eventually someone will ask why it's not been fixed yet
<ochosi> brainwash_: have you actively tried to find people to verify it outside of this channel?
<brainwash_> I will have to try that
<pleia2> knome: I won't be around much until Sunday or so
<elfy> hi pleia2 - have fun :)
<pleia2> elfy: hey :) thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: care to test https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings ?
<bluesabre> just looking for a second confirmation before requesting motu and archive admin eyes
<ochosi> bluesabre: will do in about 30mins, just have to finish something real quick
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> brainwash_: I now have exo access, will handle this patch today https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11504
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11504 in Helpers "Update mimeapps.list location (glib >= 2.41)" [Major,Assigned]
<bluesabre> brainwash_: and done
<brainwash_> bluesabre, great. I'll try to re-test it later
<brainwash_> to make sure that everything works
<bluesabre> ochosi: be sure to test
<bluesabre> (greeter-settings)
<ochosi> bluesabre: getting ready to test now...
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, I've started pinging :)
<ochosi> ok :)
<bluesabre> it works for me, at least
<ochosi> that's a good start :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: wowza and ouch
<bluesabre> oh god
<ochosi> don't use that with a theme in your home folder :D
<ochosi> otherwise you'll get the root fallback theme
<bluesabre> silly ochosi
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> use greybird or numix :P
<bluesabre> (we'll fix that in 1.1.1
<bluesabre> )
<ochosi> not knowing what it is, that button looks scary without a tooltip: http://i.imgur.com/drZTLyx.png
<ochosi> (will it remove the item..?)
<ochosi> i know now what it is, because i clicked
<ochosi> but i think a tooltip might be helpful
<ochosi> ouch
<ochosi> now i updated some settings, locked the session and got a white screen that was constantly repainted
<ochosi> (i.e. flickering mouse cursor)
<ochosi> i guess restarting shouldn't be needed, should it?
<bluesabre> shouldn't be
<bluesabre> sounds like you're exposing some nice greeter bugs
<bluesabre> but overall, the settings works, right?
<ochosi> well i can't say
<ochosi> because the whitescreen never recovered
<ochosi> lemme quickly save my work and then i'll give it another try
<sidi> wrapping up what's being told right now in #xfce-dev, there won't be a RC for Xfce 4.12
<sidi> you should test the latest 4.11 components instead, if willing to do some last minute testing
<sidi> Xfwm just had a release, settings is following
<ochosi> bluesabre: i like it when sidi gives us a heads up! (:
<bluesabre> I hear an echo
<sidi> rofl.
<sidi> some people here are not on #xfce-dev ;P
<sidi> and those people are the people doing the testing for Xub :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'll quickly reboot and then test again
<bluesabre> fair enough :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, a simple switch between two system-wide themes would have been sufficient for me :P
<bluesabre> (for now, approaching FF as we are)
<ochosi> ok, now it works
<ochosi> the reboot has fixed everything
<ochosi> could be that i just updated greeter, lightdm and the settings app without rebooting
<ochosi> maybe that wasnt such a swell idea...
<bluesabre> living dangerously
<bluesabre> want to comment on the bug that you tested the package and it works for you?
<ochosi> already on it
<bluesabre> I subbed ubuntu-sponsors after my last comment to set this up to notify >:)
<ochosi> greeter development was always dangerous ;)
<elfy> sidi: thanks for showing some of the kindness of telling us things that others in here just assume we know :p
<elfy> s/showing some of us 
<ochosi> well, we'd have told you on time though ;)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> for now it seemed a bit like "no news"
<elfy> ha 
<sidi> elfy, you're welcome :p
<ochosi> we've all been guinea-pigs for 4.11 all along, so i have no idea what else we could do to test it more
<sidi> ochosi, that's quite true
<sidi> but
<sidi> it'd be good to have people do a clean install
<sidi> just to check the xfconf keys we ship by default
<ochosi> right, but the thing is that the xubuntu team is already doing quite a lot of testing...
<ochosi> this sort of clean install you're referring to (vanilla xfce) is something you should contact the arch users about ;)
<slickymaster> Unit193, https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/fixes/+merge/249768 approved and merged
<ochosi> folks, all the help links seem to be broken in vivid's settings manager, can you confirm that?
<slickymaster> I'll just be able to tomorrow ochosi :P
<elfy> works here - but as we worked out ... bit broken - booting vm 
 * slickymaster wanders to see how's his fish going
<elfy> round and round looking out the glass
<elfy> or frying ... 
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: broken in what way?
<elfy> ochosi: vm - tried 4 or 5 helps - all work 
<bluesabre> there is an issue with firefox 35+ in vivid that links don't open
<elfy> really? 35 worked when I had it
<bluesabre> maybe just 36 then
<elfy> 36 failed badly - had to go back, but there was only 34 available by then :|
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> :'(
<elfy> yea - I could ack that for sure :)
<elfy> yea ... though I actually only noticed from inside (he)xchat
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> hm, so maybe it's ff then
<bluesabre> if ff opens at your home screen, then most likely
<elfy> if that's what you're seeing I would think so 
<elfy> bluesabre: I got - click link - ff opens new instance at 'home' iirc
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> yeah, got that too
<elfy> ochosi: panic ye not :)
<ochosi> ok ok
 * ochosi calms himself down
<knome> pleia2, that's fine
<ochosi> bluesabre: indeed, help works fine with chromium
 * ochosi shakes his fist at firefox
<knome> silly ochosi, being mad at software :)
<bluesabre> firefox protects your privacy by not letting you access the internet while drunk
<bluesabre> or sober
<knome> well it should if you're a jerk like ochosi...
 * knome hides
<elfy> hello knome 
<knome> elfy, i can't talk, i'm hiding
<knome> oops
<knome> :P
<elfy> lol
<elfy> balloons is as good 
<knome> good in what?
<elfy> hiding
<knome> :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i think we have a "job opening" for you... :)
<elfy> slickymaster: remember https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1404275/+merge/245201
<elfy> bug is not invalid now :) 
<elfy> \o/
<elfy> can I go now ochosi :p
<ochosi> which bug is not invalid now?
<elfy> testcase one - still no need to panic :)
<elfy> big 1404275
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> bug 1404275
<ubottu> bug 1404275 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Imgur hosting option missing" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1404275
<knome> big big
<elfy> enormous
<elfy> fix the little bugs and the big big's are so big - they'll get left 
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> ochosi: I'm getting a bit itchy re 14.04.2 - if we only get the chance to do some quick smoketests to prove install - what's your opinion on that? 
<ochosi> how many days are left now?
<elfy> not including the 2 hours left today - 3 
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> i'd say we continue to ping infinity
<ObrienDave> which test case do you need help with the most?
<slickymaster> elfy: I'll review it tomorrow
<elfy> ochosi: mmm - let's not all do that - given that I'm sure wxl will be doing it as well :)
<elfy> slickymaster: okey doke - thanks 
<elfy> ochosi: if you don't notice -release often - check now and you'll see what I meant :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can you refresh and upload xubuntu-meta?
<Unit193> slickymaster: Thanks for the comments!
<bluesabre> Unit193: it's time?
<Unit193> I'd say so.
<elfy> Unit193: did you catch the image still being fubar? 
<Unit193> elfy: Yeah, hoping this might help.
<ochosi> elfy: i actually read it, mr release manager ;)
<Unit193> Otherwise, will have to try and revert some changes.
<elfy> ok Unit193 - as soon as I know the new one's there I'll sync it and check it here 
<elfy> ochosi: ha - don't know if you've got things set to ping you there or not :)
<elfy> I shall now wander off until Friday and see how the other 2 in release team did :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Of course take a look at the changelog and make sure nothing too odd.
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks good for now
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> Unit193: at some point if you could point me at 'what' and 'where' you look to see what this sort of issue could be - I'd love to know 
<elfy> especially if you're going to be doing more 'other' stuff here
<elfy> just not today ;)
<slickymaster> at you service Unit193 ;)
<elfy> which might be completely a non-starter, but if I can lessen *our* load somehow - always good 
<elfy> ochosi: so I've never brought this up as a bug nor reported, because just assumed - apps, run some qt thing - clementine for example
<knome> bluesabre, want me to ping Mirv again tomorrow?
<elfy> change them - it changes, change them - it doesn't - fails to see theme change second time - needs reboot
<ochosi> elfy: but generally it applies the theme the first time?
<ochosi> needs reboot or restart of the app/s?
<elfy> yep - clementine has numix - even though changed back to greybird
<ochosi> right
<elfy> nope - only restart
<ochosi> i guess there's not much we can do about that...
<ochosi> that used to be a problem wth gtk3 as well
<ochosi> but they fixed it
<elfy> ok - this is why I've not bothered mentioning it :)
<ochosi> i'd say it's very low priority
<elfy> assumed QT 
<ochosi> yeah
<elfy> yea yea 
<ochosi> qt or the gtk-qt interaction
<bluesabre> knome: sure, and I'll reach out to a few others in the morning
<bluesabre> thanks
<elfy> the trolltech thing we did a short while ago at least meant I didn't need to do any more than install tbh
<knome> bluesabre, oki, i'll do that when i woke up or sth :D
<bluesabre> great
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-17
<bluesabre> Unit193: look right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10264042/
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'd say yes it does.
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> Unit193: on this channel, ya know
<bluesabre> >.<
<Unit193> Hah.
<Unit193> bluesabre: You try out new ll?
<bluesabre> Unit193: haven't had a chance, been swimming in xfce stuff
<Unit193> Fun times.
<knome> swimming? huh.
<elfy> blue
<knome> bluesabre, did you get the new artwork package up yet?
<elfy> did you make it any different? 
<bluesabre> knome: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-artwork/xubuntu-artwork_15.04.1/changelog
<bluesabre> (yes)
<knome> elfy, it should have changed the wallpaper if bluesabre didn't mess up :)
<bluesabre> might require a logout
<elfy> greyish one?
<Unit193> Unless he's already changed it.
<knome> elfy, yup.
<elfy> t's is there in live yep
<knome> Unit193, not on new installs he's doing.
<knome> well that's actually a good meter.
<knome> if you think it's greyish... your monitor is bad :)
<elfy> hard to tell with all the unity stuff lol
<elfy> knome: that's greyish on vb - but yea - not a monitor to do anything much with here :)
<knome> elfy, it's towards grey, but it's that muddy brown grey
<knome> i'm surprised how much that mud i'm seeing on my laptop
<knome> but only in the middle areas..
<elfy> and if ochosi's comment to PaulW2U earlier about that being our 'dev' paper - good idea 
<knome> yeah, that's the one :)
<knome> elfy, you'd be happy to know that the first version i did wasn't picked: http://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/.devwall/dev-wall-draft-1.png
<knome> that's horrible on a laptop screen
<knome> on a good monitor, it's pleasing
<elfy> yes - happy :)
<elfy> that's hurting eyes in browser
<knome> lol
<knome> can see the other variants in the same dir :P
<elfy> anyway - grey - it looks like estuary mud here 
<knome> elfy, that's a good way to describe it ;)
<elfy> ochosi: ^^ no elliptical circles - but I got the colour :D
<knome> there are some elliptical circles though :D
<knome> in the background, it's clearly banded
<elfy> heh
<elfy> clear as mud ... 
<Unit193> elfy: It's artwork, just nod your head like I do.
<elfy> I thought that's what I did with the last comment :)
<knome> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmBM5twmSjI
<knome> like that?
<elfy> channel confusion ensing
<elfy> s/ensuing
<elfy> is that about the grey or Fry and Laurie ?
<elfy> anwyay - think the grey dev wallpaper is a good idea 
<knome> the nodding like you understand :P
<elfy> I'm nodding like I understand 
<knome> like the dog?
<elfy> fixed that for you :p
<elfy> the random dots ... now that's just random except for one person's head 
<knome> lol
<knome> they aren't random though
<knome> just harder to decrypt.
<elfy> trying to find the 'yea but I don't play games' comment :)
<Unit193> So scumbag me, put something on the agenda and likely won't be at the next meeting. :D
<elfy> as long as you fix vivid normal before that's ok :p
<elfy> in return I will move it along for a few meetings
<knome> lol
<elfy> just checked that ... 
<elfy> 2 or 3 ish
<elfy> Unit193: could we not drop that in a pad - then people can make notes as they think of them?
<elfy> or nvm
<Unit193> I could, I suppose...
<elfy> doing it :)
<Unit193> Oh bah, I was going to use https://pad.riseup.net/ or http://piratepad.net/front-page/
<elfy> then you do it then :p
<knome> Unit193, no way, you got to use the ubuntu tools ;))
<knome> otherwise it'll not be official...
<knome> that's your punishment for not making the next meeting
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core-upgrade
<Unit193> And I thought you'd just be glad I didn't say I was going to use https://5jp7xtmox6jyoqd5.onion/ :(
<elfy> I was 
<Unit193> Anywho, if you have any questions feel free to ping Sean.
<elfy> we will - he's running the meeting :p
<knome> ;)=
<elfy> we'll have some idea if we've got a bootable Xubuntuable 14.02 image then too 
<elfy> so with 2 release team people we'll be able to call if it's not happenin
<elfy> mostly I need to #annouce BETA 2 PEOPLE !!!
<jjfrv8> ochosi, "job opening"?
<bluesabre> Unit193: want an easy package that I'll sponsor for you?
<Unit193> bluesabre: -settings?
 * bluesabre nods
<Unit193> Er, that is to say, looking into it, should be done soon.
<Unit193> Wait, we patch on top of a patch? :P
<bluesabre> welcome to the world of debian+xfce+ubuntu+xfce
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to improve it, I think one of them is entirely redundant
<Unit193> There were 3 patches, one fixed upstream (versioned help), one is Debian patching the theme, one is us re-patching the already patched theme. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> http://sigma.unit193.net/souce/xfce4-settings_4.11.4-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Unit193> (Had to stop for food and run a test build. :P )
<Unit193> http://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-settings_4.11.4-0ubuntu1.dsc  I sware I can type!
<bluesabre> surprised its not in /sauce/
<Unit193> Hah. :3
<Unit193> Didn't touch d/copyright, leaving that for Debian. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> may never get updated then, I saw that with lightdm-gtk-greeter and its qt/kde/etc greeters
<eikon81g> I may be barking up the wrong tree but I am having some issues with Ubuntu 14.10 after installing xfce.. Would anyone be able to field a question on an issue with the volume buttons (fn+volup/dn/mute)
<eikon81g> (sorry to interrupt the convo)
<Unit193> eikon81g: Generally you were right the first time, trying in #xubuntu, it's just night time so less people and you didn't actually ask the question.  Also, would it be too much to ask for you to try out the live image to see if the problem is there too?  (Changes from Ubuntu to Xubuntu can be "fun")
<eikon81g> I am using Ubuntu 14.10 with xfce and when I was running unity my volume controls on the keyboard (fn + vol up / fn + vol dn / fn + mute) worked fine but after the xfce install (or so I think) the volume buttons quit working. I did some research and I have the Indicator plugin running to make volume adjustments which works fine but I'd like to have my buttons available to use. After researching some I saw that there are b
<eikon81g> ug repo
<eikon81g> <eikon81g> rts in place already for this issue but I was unable to get my buttons working again after following a few of the fixes that were posted in the ubuntu forums. I don't recall the exact commands but they had to do with resetting pule info in a .dconf file I believe.. I may need to do some more research / investigating but I figured this would be a good avenue to get going in the right direction.. Thanks in advance
<Unit193> I'd personally recommend installing the task for best results.
<rww> second time. They started in #ubuntu.
<Unit193> Ooh, ouch.  Thanks, rww.
<eikon81g> @unit193 live image?
<meetingology> eikon81g: Error: "unit193" is not a valid command.
<eikon81g> @unit193-  live image?
<meetingology> eikon81g: Error: "unit193-" is not a valid command.
<eikon81g> unit 193 - live image?
<eikon81g> I haven't used irc in quite some time I also need to brush up on this : \ 
<Unit193> I'm not a bot, believe it or not.  bluesabre's got you in #xubuntu, it's all good.
<eikon81g> Ok thanks a million I pasted it over there.. I feel like an idiot. 
<eikon81g> :\
<Unit193> Sure, no problem.
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll work on your endorsement in the morning (see, I'm not forgetting about it!)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, danke.
<Unit193> lightdm depends on bash, pretty sure you don't need to actually depend on bash in a package.
<Unit193> Failure to ping  www.xubuntu.com  may also mean 1. DNS is failing.  2. Canonical servers are failing.
<pleia2> knome: I might be around a little today, will know more about my schedule today in a couple hours
<pleia2> meeting up with some folks from the conference around lunchtime, then either adventures or not
<ochosi> jjfrv8: xfce will get a new stable release soon and i thought as one of our most experienced docs-writer i'd ask you whether you have time or are motivated to contribute
<ochosi> jjfrv8: not sure yet which components will for sure get a docs-version-bump, but it's at least appearance settings and display settings that need updates
<ochosi> Unit193: if you have time, could you take a stab at packaging gtk2-engine-xfce 2.9.1 (yes, that's the latest release) for the staging PPA?
<Unit193> http://archive.xfce.org/src/xfce/gtk-xfce-engine/3.0/ I don't see anything, and I don't want to just rename the tarball, change the configure.ac version and autoreconf it.
<ochosi> Unit193: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/gtk-xfce-engine/snapshot/gtk-xfce-engine-2.9.1.tar.bz2
<Unit193> That's 2.9.
<Unit193> !info gtk-engines-xfce
<Unit193> !info gtk2-engines-xfce
<ubottu> Package gtk-engines-xfce does not exist in utopic
<ubottu> gtk2-engines-xfce (source: gtk2-engines-xfce): GTK+-2.0 theme engine for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.1-2 (utopic), package size 30 kB, installed size 360 kB
<ochosi> grrrrr
<ochosi> 2.9.1 *is* the latest release
<Unit193> Read users ML for more info.
<Unit193> Shadow release isn't there yet.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> right, so let's wait for the shadow release then
<Unit193> Ya think? :P
<ochosi> well, i thought that for staging we could've just bumped the version name
<ochosi> or even if not, i could've just downgraded, i usually don't have that engine installed anway
<ochosi> going for a 2.9 version number really wasn't a great idea *sigh*
<Unit193> Working on small changes now, will go for the tiny changes next cycle as that'll likely kill some translations: http://paste.openstack.org/show/DsJoFAVku0beWip6gqLd/
<ochosi> Unit193: if you wanna help out with docs upstream... =)
<Unit193> Also, https://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/guide-keeping-safe.html needs help.  And, is there a way to change the xref line?  That's pretty nasty at the top.
<pleia2> knome: shared the survey on G+ and Facebook too
<ochosi> bluesabre: added fix to greybird for the greeter. only thing that needs fixing in the greeter is setting the .default class on the login button (something like gtk_widget_set_can_default(login_button,TRUE); gtk_window_set_default(GTK_WINDOW(login_window), login_button); )
<pleia2> 141 responses so far, nice :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: otherwise the login-button remains grey
<elfy> I really dislike numlock not working 
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, nvm, i fixed that in the theme too. so with the last two commits of greybird the greeter2.0 should behave as it should again
<ochosi> bluesabre: lemme know if you need me to tag a new version of greybird
<elfy> Unit193: quick question - updates for vivid today - I've got xubuntu core installed now - that expected?
<Unit193> elfy: Newly installed or just upgraded?
<elfy> just daily upgrades
<brainwash> -desktop depends on -core
<Unit193> I meant the package, pulled in or not?  xubuntu-meta was updated, so xubuntu-core and xubuntu-desktop should have been upgraded, but oth already installed.
<elfy> Unit193: not sure - checking
<brainwash> is that a bad thing?
<elfy> only one instance of it in apt history - and that is today's install of it
<elfy> anyway - as long as that's expected - that's fine :)
<Unit193> elfy: So looking at things, may be the 18th that gets the fix. :/
<Unit193> I should be able to confirm beforehand though.
<elfy> Unit193: time will tell
<Unit193> I don't see it fixed today. :/
<elfy> Unit193: ok
<elfy> how can something as simple as numlock need to be so not simple
<Unit193> ...Something is very drunk...
<elfy> worked yesterday morning, lightdm greeter update - that appears to have commented out the line in lightdm.conf
<elfy> uncomment it and machine hangs turning nvidia prime on and off :p
<elfy> slickymasterWork: and if you hit any key right at beginning so you get menu, does that boot to desktop? 
<elfy> at the stage where you see the little keyboard and bloke
<slickymasterWork> haven't tried that yet elfy 
<slickymasterWork> going to now
<slickymasterWork> presently this is what I'm getting booting the image -> http://imgur.com/0XrId6o
<slickymasterWork> elfy, hitting a key at beginning produced the same results as before. Unable to boot to desktop :P
<brainwash> slickymasterWork, can you please mark bug 1271883 as won't fix (for now)?
<ubottu> bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271883
<slickymasterWork> in the xfwm4 package brainwash? because it's already marked as 'Won't fix'
<slickymasterWork> I meant in the xfwm4 (ubuntu) package brainwash :P
<brainwash> yes, change the status of the ubuntu package
<slickymasterWork> and done brainwash, want to add any comment?
<brainwash> the last upstream comment explains it already
<brainwash> and xubuntu just follows
<brainwash> oh, and thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> np brainwash 
<slickymasterWork> and as the Finnish one ins't around you don't get poked to apply to the Ubuntu Bug Control brainwash ;)
<slickymasterWork> * isn't
<brainwash> lucky me
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> krytarik, I agree with you in "This documentation provides documentation to the most common issues with Xubuntu..." should rather be "This documentation provides information to the most common issues with Xubuntu..."
<slickymasterWork> will change that tonight 
<slickymasterWork> elfy, finally managed to get to the menu and boot into a completely borked desktop
<elfy> ack 
<slickymasterWork> the only thing that worked was hitting the left shift key at start
<slickymasterWork> no other ones manage to do it
<elfy> I'm just waiting for the new daily - then I'll do both arch's on vbox and hardware and see where we are
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> pleia2, no worries really, it's not a pressing issue in any way :)
<slickymasterWork> hey knome 
<knome> hullo slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> here's some reading material for you -> http://pastebin.com/70HL3iBU
<knome> oh noes
<slickymasterWork> whatie?
<elfy> run away
<knome>  i hate reading :P
<elfy> run away now
<slickymasterWork> you won't hate that
<pleia2> knome o/
<knome> o hai pleia2 
<knome> pleia2, so just this question:
<Unit193> I'll concur with the second to last line.
<pleia2> knome: so I think we should accept that email and be happy it came there
<knome> pleia2, ok, how do we spread the word?
<pleia2> knome: can fwd to some devs
<knome> like -team?
<pleia2> yeah sure
<knome> oki
<knome> i'll do that
<knome> and that was pretty much it ;)
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> knome pleia2 - how long do we anticipate running this first survey for? 
<pleia2> couple weeks maybe
<knome> we have 187 responses now
<elfy> yea - just looked 
<pleia2> crazy
<knome> :)
<knome> what's more crazy is that half of them still consider themself power users ;)
<knome> that can't be right...
<knome> i mean this can't be representing
<pleia2> it's a self-selecting crowd that's passionate enough to follow their OS on social media /mailing lists
<elfy> pleia2: yep
<knome> yes, but if they maintain systems for others...
<knome> how do we get *those* people respond?
<knome> 113 people say they maintain computers for others, some of that must be xubuntu
<pleia2> one of the many problems with trying to do a user survey :)
<pleia2> but we do what we can
<knome> only 1 says somebody maintains computer for them
<elfy> setup one to run for a whole cycle - put link on slideshow 
<pleia2> maybe we can explore that in a follow up survey
<knome> should we send some reminders
<pleia2> yeah, I'll send some out on social media throughout the weeks
<elfy> knome: but we'll still be talking to the same people surely
<knome> "if you are maintaining xubuntu systems for other people, please ask them to fill the survey as well"
<knome> yah, that addresses the "same" people ^
<pleia2> ah, sure
<knome> since pleia2 is around, i'll tweet something like that 
<elfy> still think put it in slideshow for a cycle - run a 6 month survey 
<knome> elfy, maybe some other, better survey :)
<pleia2> ok, I'll social media it elsewhere again later in the week
<knome> not that there is anything wrong with this
<pleia2> should remind about stickers again too
<knome> yes
<knome> i'll tweet about that at the same time
<knome> with pic
<elfy> knome: yea - but still, something running for longer 
<knome> elfy, agreed
<knome> but meh, where do i get the original link
<pleia2> ok, I'll do the stickers+qa thing on other social medias now
<elfy> knome: you mean use this one for that? 
<knome> yes
<elfy> pleia2: thanks :)
<knome> mailing list archive
<knome> yes
<pleia2> I got distracted by pancakes
<knome> hah
<elfy> easily done :)
<knome> tweeted survey and testing stuff
 * pleia2 copies knome's text for qa
<knome> hehe, welcome
<knome> should be winner though
<knome> :PP
<knome> buuut
 * knome shrugs
<knome> slickymasterWork, the spaces-in-tags is just annoying and not helpful for translators
<knome> slickymasterWork, the invalid markup and translated tags is worse
<slickymasterWork> that's one thing
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<pleia2> knome: actually, are we doing a b1?
<elfy> yes 
<pleia2> then there are winners :)
<knome> yep
<knome> ok then
<knome> good for me :P
<elfy> pleia2: there will be winners at end of feb too 
<knome> i said "end of month"
<knome> but we can consider that just being b1 time and actual end of month
<knome> :P
<elfy> nope
<knome> the url was so long that there wasn't much to scribble :D
<knome> and the image took some letters away as well
<elfy> we've already said what we're doing at http://xubuntu.org/news/help-the-community-with-testing-and-win-xubuntu-stickers/
<knome> elfy, no of course we do it like that :P
<elfy> end of Feb and Beta 1
<knome> but isn't b1 time "end of month" :P
<slickymasterWork> knome, what concerns me the most is why the strings already translated using the LP (using Rosetta) aren't being synced to the docs branch 
<knome> elfy, just consider it is ;)
<elfy> knome: yea - but I'm grabbing seperate figures for B1
<pleia2> didn't say last day, I consider the 26th to be at the end
<knome> elfy, absolutely!
<knome> and we can announce at the end :P
<knome> slickymasterWork, as i said to Unit193, i can request a one-time import
<Unit193> Are you sure it's actually set to auto export?
<knome> i'm sure of anything i've said until i say the contrary
<slickymasterWork> lol knome, a professional politic wouldn't said that better
<knome> slickymasterWork, you got to remember i do work with politicians...
<slickymasterWork> nasty people
<knome> yes.
<knome> otoh, i get to prove they are wrong, and usually succeed at that
<knome> :P
<knome> buut
<knome> let's see
<knome>  Translations are imported with every update from branch lp:xubuntu-docs. 
<knome> oh.
<slickymasterWork> right 
<knome>  Currently not exporting translations to a branch. Choose a target branch. 
 * knome shrugs
<knome> done and should start doing that
<knome> would that fix it? :P
<knome> i thought the problem was with the import
<knome> but i didn't think straight when i was asked about it...
<slickymasterWork> can't the export be automated?
<knome> yes.
<knome> i just turned that on.
<knome> it wasn't
<slickymasterWork> silly knome 
<knome> nobody asked about exports
<knome> until Unit193 did
<knome> see, he's just as good in this as i am
<slickymasterWork> hmm not sure of that
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<knome> well he didn't say anything about it until he said
<knome> ;)
<knome> so isn't that fair? :P
<slickymasterWork> heheh
<knome> so the first exports should land in the, say, next 24 hours
<knome> the export is daily
<slickymasterWork> I'll keep an eye on it
<slickymasterWork> btw where is that set knome?
<knome> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+translations-settings
<pleia2> knome: oh yeah, so we should accept that email on contacts and share it (just confirming it wasn't reject+fwd)
<knome> pleia2, yep.
<knome> pleia2, so how do we reply to the sender?
<pleia2> ok good
<pleia2> knome: one of us should just send a "thanks, we've sent it to the team"
<slickymasterWork> thanks for the url knome 
<slickymasterWork> checking it
<knome> pleia2, yep
<knome> pleia2, i'll do that next
<pleia2> but not me, because I am barely awake and things are starting to feel funny :)
<knome> well same here, i woke up 30mins ago
<knome> i clearly live in the same timezone as pleia2 
<pleia2> I slept all night on Friday
<knome> pleia2, oh!
<knome> pleia2, one more thing...
<knome> i'll take it to PM
<pleia2> I shall try :)
<knome> anything else people need me to touch?
<knome> elfy, guess you got my message re: the planet MP
<elfy> just read that - makes sense - I am NOT doing it again :p
<knome> elfy, if you want me to help with the thing i proposed, just poke me
<elfy> yep
<knome> ok, i'll get to you once i've done this other thing
<elfy> you're assuming I'm the one who'd do it though :)
<knome> well if you aren't... tell me ;)
<elfy> I'm off out shortly for an hourish 
<knome> elfy, if you want to do it after that then, ping me
<knome> i might or might not be around, but... yeah
<knome> jjfrv8, i see you've changed your email address :)
<knome> jjfrv8, delivered my email to the new one :)
<elfy> nice :)
<knome> jjfrv8, are we going to see some content on the new domain soon? :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: Added my endorsement, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unit193/XubuntuPackageset - may tack on a few other things when I get home later.
<knome> oh that, should poke the page :]
<knome> done as well
<knome> bluesabre, did you poke an archive admin already?
<bluesabre> knome: bugged pitti
<bluesabre> feel free to reach out to others
<knome> i poked Mirv fwiw
<knome> not an archive admin, but..
<knome> bluesabre, 15:28 Mirv: uploaded
<ochosi> \o/
<jjfrv8> ochosi, sure, you can sign me up.
<jjfrv8> knome, no, I don't do web stuff.
<knome> jjfrv8, awwh :(
<ochosi> jjfrv8: great!
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i shall set up a staging site at bluesabre's wiki again
<jjfrv8> okey
<ochosi> i would try to keep the diff as minimal as possible in this case
<ochosi> but anyway, it's up to you and i trust you ;)
<jjfrv8> bad idea
<ochosi> the latest version of xfce4-settings (4.11.4) can be found in vivid and (from git) in our staging PPA for older versions like 14.04
<ochosi> not sure what you're using atm
<jjfrv8> haven't updated in a while, elfy is scaring me. I've got 4.11.3 atm.
<knome> bad efl
<knome> elfy too..
<ochosi> jjfrv8: i guess this one i won't have to copy to staging... :D http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/display
<ochosi> anyway, here is the initial setup: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfce4-settings-docs:start
<jjfrv8> I'll check it out after rebooting from my updates. If my machine will boot, that is :|
<ochosi> coraggio! it will work
<jjfrv8> ok, updated, rebooted, and mayhem has not ensued ...yet :)
<knome> ;)
<jjfrv8> I checked the staging link out and will get started tonight. bbt
<ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks! it's much appreciated!
<ochosi> jjfrv8: if you need a short-list of changes, lemme know
<ochosi> especially for appearance settings, it should be fairly straightforward
<ochosi> display settings is pretty much rebuilt from the ground, so you'll have to start with a blank page either way
<elfy> I'm not that scary ... 
<elfy> knome: can look at this planet thing when you're about 
<elfy> !team | back on track hopefully - new rebuilds of trusty .2 at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/332/builds
<elfy> foiled again
<elfy> !team ^^
<slickymasterWork> yeah, saw those on -qa channel
<elfy> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> ^^ thanks 
<elfy> I turn of the announce bot
<slickymasterWork> i deleted yesterday's image, so no zsync for me :P
<slickymasterWork> and downloading the entire iso here is out of the question
<elfy> slickymasterWork: this is trusty not yesterday's image :)
<slickymasterWork> yes it is elfy. Nevermind me
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I've been watching for both for a while now
<slickymasterWork> silly slickymaster
<elfy> smoketest confusion reigns - doing 32 and 64 at the same time, but they're at different stages 
<slickymasterWork> elfy the juggler
<Unit193> bluesabre, knome: Thanks!
<elfy> not sure about that - mad perhaps
<elfy> Unit193: I thought about writing something - not sure if it'd help
<elfy> happy to do so though if you like 
<Unit193> Don't see why it wouldn't, it's the Xubuntu packageset and you're an Xubuntu lead.
<elfy> ok - I'll do so tomorrow
<slickymasterWork> btw Unit193, and as mentioned it, not sure if you saw but I corrected the <<DateTime>> tag format	in it
<slickymasterWork> s/as/as you
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Hmm, somehow missed the scrollback on it (unless it was -ot), but wiki sent me a notice.  Thanks.
<slickymasterWork> :)
<Unit193> The vivid images are fixed tomorrow, it was all my fault but pushed the change now.
<Unit193> elfy: Oh, you asked me where I find things out.  Well one is I'd made some bigger changes, and two: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/xubuntu.vivid/ going through that (and testing the fix using germinate myself.)  As I've already linked, that's also where to check for imagme build failures, packagesets, why something is stuck in proposed, and basically every log file is 
<Unit193> there. 
<elfy> awesome - thanks Unit193 - I'll have a dig about :)
<Unit193> Basically this time, I'd moved all the core deps to, well, core and marked core as a seed for desktop.  I missed however that it also needed mapped in STRUCTURE (germinate/seeds aren't well documented.)
<elfy> ok - logically I think I can follow that :)
<Unit193> (germinate also confirmed it was a-ok with my fix.)
<knome> elfy, hullo
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> elfy, up for a very short sprint? :)
<elfy> possibly ... 
<elfy> need more info on what first :D
<knome> the planet conf :P
<knome> if you'd rather do it on some other channel, point me htere
<knome> *there
<knome> maybe a cc chan
<knome> or sth
<elfy> no other channel - we can do it here or PMs 
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/778642 erm, that doesn't look good.  Fixed in 1.4.2?
<ubottu> Debian bug 778642 in xfce4-power-manager-plugins "xfce4-power-manager-plugins: Serious memory leak in libxfce4powermanager.so" [Critical,Open]
<ochosi> Unit193: i don't think so, at least the upstream report is still open
<ochosi> bluesabre: pinged around and greeter-settings has been accepted+uploaded
<ochosi> Unit193: iirc eric_the_idiot had a promising lead on that one though, but i think so far nothing has been pushed
<Unit193> valgrind?
<ochosi> yeah, but for panel-plugins?
<ochosi> if you valgrind it, i'll look into fixing it ;)
<ochosi> anyway, i still have some real work to do..
<Unit193> Bye.
<ochosi> elfy: saw the 14.04.2 ping
<ochosi> has anyone run a test on it yet?
<ochosi> for now i still have other things on my plate, but if i don't finish work too late, i might run a test today
<elfy> ochosi: I've done 10 smoketests in vbox 
<ochosi> oh wow
<ochosi> how does it look?
<elfy> will do some hardware ones shortly and tomorrow 
<elfy> well - we had 10 passes instead of 10 fails - so that's a good start :)
<ochosi> so no more crappy-crap installed by default?
<elfy> I couldn't see any - checked manifest too 
<ochosi> \o/
<elfy> that's was my reaction too funnily enough :D
<ochosi> let's hope Unit193 fixed vivid then
<knome> so, Unit193 is good at poking vervets?
<elfy> he seems to believe that 
<Unit193> Nooo, he poked it and angered it. :3
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> andrzejr: Got a screenie for xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin?
<andrzejr> nope, it's just a panel icon.
<Unit193> Hmm.
<ochosi> andrzejr: iirc there's no scale that pops up when clicking it, right?
<Unit193> So other than the benefit of not being an indicator, any other benefits?
<ochosi> PA-support? (as opposed to the mixer)
<andrzejr> + volume mute control via keyboard and mouse wheel
<andrzejr> someday I will add a menu too
<ochosi> would be cool if a mixer-app could be bound to it via an xfconf prop
<ochosi> for on-click
<ochosi> that should be fairly easy to implement
<andrzejr> I can do it for 0.1 release. There is already an xfconf prop and an option in preferences dialog.
<ochosi> you mean for this?
<andrzejr> There is an option for the mixer app, although so far the only tool I am aware of is pavucontrol
<andrzejr> do you know how to start unity-control-center with sound tab selected?
<brainwash_> andrzejr, unity-control-center sound
<andrzejr> ha! I knew I'm missing something obvious
<elfy> brainwash_: see no title bar in evince now :p
<Unit193> elfy: have -gtk, right?
<elfy> yea
<elfy> evince-gtk
<Unit193> elfy: Also, re: logs that I linked.  You can try to go through them, or ping me or bluesabre when there's an issue.
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> just want to be able to try and work it out for me too
<ochosi> wrt evince, i already submitted a patch on git.gnome.org
<ochosi> (slightly modified from what brainwash_ submitted on launchpad)
<ochosi> so yeah, that will be fixed in time, i'm sure
<elfy> yep
<elfy> just glad I'm seeing it now :D
<ochosi> hah, weird elfy :)
<elfy> seems that we've got *some* extras kicking about in the new trusty image
<elfy> krytarik: ^^
<krytarik> elfy: Well, only the two I've mentioned really stuck out to me (mate-notification-daemon and xscreensaver).
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> so not all problems are fixed then
<ochosi> having two lockers isn't very cool
<krytarik> Yeah, but infinity is on it.
<krytarik> So I trust that'll we gone at the day's end.
<ochosi> cool cool
<elfy> mentioned it to the poor guy :)
<elfy> and he's on that already :)
<elfy> I guess if anything the one he's not done is the one that we'd choose to lose if we had to 
<brainwash_> oh, theme color previews :)
<bluesabre> brainwash_ found a new feature
<brainwash_> and icon previews, everything looks so cluttered now :D
<bluesabre> wait for it... expecting a new bug report to appear
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> or two
<knome> or three
 * bluesabre hides
<brainwash_> well, not a new bug, but I just noticed that my cursor is not set properly anymore after a relog (outside of the root window aka desktop)
<brainwash_> it reverts to the default one. I remember reading about this buggy behavior, and now I'm seeing it too
<bluesabre> oh no
<brainwash_> thought that it's only a myth :)
<brainwash_> so, I had to tell xfce4-settings to reapply my selected cursor theme and size
<ochosi> luckily that is a totally unrelated bug
<brainwash_> but why would a session restart break it..
<brainwash_> it is, but it's the reason why I opened the appearance settings and noticed the previews
<brainwash_> then I noticed that I actually need to open the Mouse and Touchpad settings
<brainwash_> ochosi, btw I gave up on greybird-thick (thick borders). it looks bad and would be greybird only anyway
<brainwash_> a general solution would be better
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i don't believe that will happen btw
<ochosi> maybe with headerbars
<ochosi> (i mean that actually already works with headerbars)
<brainwash_> it works with gtk3/csd out of the box, but this magic cannot be backported to gtk2 I guess
<brainwash_> or to xfwm4 in general, kinda confusing
<ochosi> well, not really
<ochosi> but whatever
<brainwash_> I'd think that the biggest bounty would be placed on this feature :D
<krytarik> knome: Btw, I was more thinking of "spaces-in-tags" = "invalid markup", but yeah, that too, and "translated tags" as well - seen you guys chatting about that a while ago.
<Unit193> krytarik: Also, see that it actually wasn't exporting and he fixed it?
<krytarik> Nope, I'm not that far down today's -devel logs yet. :P
<Unit193> Yeah they need to be more quiet!
<brainwash> now with the release of xfce4-settings 4.11.4 we can close some lp reports
<Unit193> :3
<brainwash> bluesabre, ochosi: how did https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11516 survive not being closed yet? :)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11516 in Mouse Settings "Can't set mouse sensitivity in XFCE" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> maybe it was reported after our sweep
<bluesabre> many many bugs, tired eyes, and coding
<bluesabre> ochosi: you want to kill it dead?
<ochosi> way ahead of you
<ochosi> also: many many bugreports
<brainwash> ochosi, just want to make sure: bug 1409470 should be now fixed in vivid, right?
<ubottu> bug 1409470 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Widget truncation in xfce4-display-settings" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409470
<ochosi> can't you just test it?
<ochosi> also, you've already written it's fixed :p
<brainwash> yeeee, but I did not test anything
<brainwash> let me try
<brainwash> yes, works fine
<knome> krytarik, i don't think we're getting invalidity errors or warnings with the tags that have spaces, they are just annoying :)
<Unit193> Oh I should request a merge for the docs stuff I have here.  krytarik: Were you OK with it?
<krytarik> knome: Well, might be - but have a look at the actual result.
<krytarik> Unit193: Yep.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-18
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/fixes/+merge/250086 :P
<Unit193> I didn't get pot! :3
<knome> aww
<knome> wfm though
<knome> merged
<Unit193> Hah, just pushed the pot too. :P
<Unit193> Danke.
<knome> that didn't get in
<knome> where's krytarik's changes
<Unit193> Did you do the 'haveibeenpwnedcom' ?
<knome> do in what way? merge? yes.
<jjfrv8> it looks like 14.04.2 has the 3.16 kernel which means I get the screen-dimming-on-logout issue on my laptop - bug 1384515
<ubottu> bug 1384515 in linux (Ubuntu) "Laptop screen dims on logout" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1384515
<jjfrv8> So we know that it got fixed in kernels 3.17 and later, does that mean I should not file a new bug?
<elfy> if there's a bug use it I guess
<jjfrv8> but the bug is marked fixed-upstream
<jjfrv8> should I add some kind of trusty tag to it?
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193, ali1234 - sorry for the noise, but created the xfpanel-switch lp project and team and dumped you all into it
<Unit193> Alright..
<elfy> jjfrv8: not sure then 
<brainwash> bluesabre: looks like the cursor bug after restarting the session is not that easily reproducible 
<bluesabre> brainwash: probably means it will be even harder to fix
<jjfrv8> okay, I'll just put a comment in the bug with my findings.
<brainwash> bluesabre: yea, I've changed the cursor theme and size like 2 or 3 days ago, and only noticed the bug today
<brainwash> was using the default cursor before
<brainwash> bluesabre: did anyone package the light-locker lid close branch?
<bluesabre> brainwash: I haven't yet, Unit193 maybe did
<Unit193> bluesabre: I pingeded you and everything! :'(
<elfy> random one for people - no numlock at the login screen here - anyone else with the same?
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes
<bluesabre> Unit193: I suck at backlog
<bluesabre> and forelog
<Unit193> bluesabre: Need a better client! ;)
<bluesabre> and yule logs
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> cake
<AgAu> i had the issue with my mouse cursors... ended up just copying my mouse theme on top of the default one
<brainwash> so.. where is it? wanna add a comment to bug 1307545 ?
<AgAu> problem solved :P
<ubottu> bug 1307545 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power Manager settings are ignored when closing laptop lid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307545
<Unit193> brainwash: ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging
<brainwash> Unit193: great, thanks
<Unit193> Sure.
<jjfrv8> elfy, my numlock goes out when I log out but I can still toggle it, and it comes back on when I log in.
<elfy> works fine and remembers state when I've logged in
 * bluesabre is putting some notes together
<elfy> but I did have numlockx called in one of the lightdm files - there was an update - that got commented and now doesn't work 
<elfy> so no numlock at login unless I toggle it there
<elfy> pita
<brainwash> old bug 835532
<ubottu> bug 835532 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm does not keep numlock status on boot" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835532
<elfy> cos I obviously forget at not enough tea drunk time :(
<elfy> brainwash: yea - saw that 
<elfy> fine in 14.10, fail in 15.04 - then I added numlockx - now something has decided that;s not going to work 
<brainwash> if the numlockx workaround does not work anymore, then you should file a bug report
<elfy> yes ... 
<elfy> but ultimately pointless if it sits there with a heat of 6 ;)
<elfy> and I've not seen anyone else flailing about with it :)
<brainwash> not yet
<Unit193> bluesabre: Good notes?
<bluesabre> getting ready for meeting tomorrow
<bluesabre> since I'm always unprepared
<elfy> today ... 
<Unit193> Oooh.  That.
<elfy> hopefully the new new fix for trusty will have landed by then
<bluesabre> that'd be great
<Unit193> So: Any questions before the meeting for me?
<bluesabre> anything you want us to #info ?
<bluesabre> also, is the transition to systemd actually going to happen this cycle?
<bluesabre> FF in two days and all
<Unit193> Don't have to.  desktop now is a layer on top of core, rather than an alternative.
<elfy> bluesabre: not heard anything 
<elfy> could try and catch pitti in the morning 
<Unit193> bluesabre: He only comes on around 11-12pm!
<elfy> pitti?
<elfy> mmm that change to blueprint re lightdm-gtk-settings
<elfy> I think it was when I got an update there that numlock wandered off 
<bluesabre> elfy: the settings app is almost in the archive
<bluesabre> if you'd like, I can copy the package over to -staging so you can start playing with it
<elfy> not saying that 
<Unit193> He's saying the new greeter, 2.0, broke it.
<elfy> just reminded me that I think it was that which caused this numlock issue I'm seeing
<elfy> *think*
<bluesabre> ah, very possible
<elfy> I shall use bluesabre as the profanity of choice each time I forget then :D
<bluesabre> good idea
<brainwash> elfy: did you add bug 1301056 to the vivid blueprint?
<ubottu> bug 1301056 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Session name has "Session"" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301056
<elfy> don't think so 
<Unit193> Is it important?
<Unit193> So we change it in x-d-s, next up they want 'Xfce Session' changed.
<brainwash> no, no one seems to care, oh.. someone actually does care and added it to the blueprint :D
<brainwash> right, it's filed against both packages
<elfy> why would someone add a trusty thing to vivid bug blueprint
<brainwash> it's still valid I think
<Unit193> It's still as valid as it was, sure.
<elfy> well, time has caught up with me - night all 
<Unit193> I think it's a pointless delta against Debian/upstream.
<Unit193> elfy: G'night.
<brainwash> good night
<bluesabre> night elfy
<brainwash> it could be easily changed upstream and then we would just change it in x-d-s too
<Unit193> Sure.
<brainwash> lets wait and see if someone actually forwards the request upstream :>
<brainwash> bluesabre: could the normal Xfce session benefit from this request bug 1181148 ?
<ubottu> bug 1181148 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Xfce font hinting: lcdfilter disabled per default, leading to fuzzy fonts" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181148
<brainwash> could be forwarded upstream (if it's not a won't fix or work for me case)
<brainwash> works for me
<bluesabre> not sure what I installed that could make this happen, but my display freezes every few seconds (mouse still moves)
<bluesabre> maybe its the compositor...
<bluesabre> well, it goes away with the xfwm compositor off
<bluesabre> and its back when I turn it back on :\
<Unit193> Well that's not good.
<Unit193> (This computer runs my PPA, so has xfwm4 .3, but doesn't have the compositor on.)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh good, only a snapshot?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah
<bluesabre> hadn't noticed it before today, and its definitely annoying enough I would have picked up on it
<bluesabre> compton to the rescue for now
<Unit193> Pushed -settings to ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce-4.12 now too.
<bluesabre> Unit193: nice
<Unit193> chkver.sh helps me keep it up to date.
 * bluesabre is not familar with chkver.sh
<Unit193> Really?  It's right there â /home/unit193/chkver.sh...
<bluesabre> nogo bash: ./home/unit193/chkver.sh: No such file or directory
<bluesabre> :p
<Unit193> Hmm, weird.
<bluesabre> probably cleaner than the script I use
<bluesabre> mine parses packages.debian and packages.ubuntu for the source packages in xubuntu packageset
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, the new xfce4-dev-tools is doesn't extract with our pristine-tar, WOuld you like a .dsc or would it be easier for you to upload yourself?
<Luyin> hey, I was trying to test vivid, but this link seems dead: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/downloads
<Luyin> is it a wrong one? I thought it was the right one to the most recent version
<Luyin> I just noticed that all the other links here (http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds) aren't working. Is it just me?
<elfy> links work here
<elfy> well builds does
<elfy> where did you get those from? 
<Luyin> hmmm good question. perhaps the site was reloaded? I went from http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker -> testing tracker -> vivid daily, now more links are showing, and they all seem to work. don't know what I did wrong in the first place
<elfy> okey doke 
<elfy> Luyin: just a heads up here - that daily is a bit fubar - might be better to wait till the version shows 20150218 
<Luyin> so you're saying I shouldn't test yet?
<elfy> I'd not 
<elfy> which isn't something people would generally associate with me :)
<Luyin> hehe
<elfy> assuming timings stay the same - new vivid should be about in couple of hours
<Luyin> okay, then I can do it this afternoon. got time today ;)
<Akusari> good morning :-)
<ochosi> morning
<Akusari> I noticed the new tracker list is empty in the case of that are daily build ? Because yesterday i reported "entire disk" installation was successful and today i'm missing this entry
<elfy> Akusari: I assume you speak of trusty image testing
<Akusari> yes
<elfy> there is a new build today - yesterdays are now archived
<elfy> Luyin: one more thing - trusty image is a bit more important today than vivid :)
<Akusari> ah ok, any reason for that or is it just a "daily" build ?
<elfy> Akusari: happens with milestones'todays's milestone image' is tomorrow's archived daily
<elfy> ochosi: morning :)
<Akusari> ok, i understand :-)
<Luyin> elfy: ok, I'll test that as soon as the running test is done. thanks for the tip
<elfy> thank you :)
<Akusari> btw: I send a mail to dev list and compared the installed packages. I noticed some new packages like  namely mate-notification-daemon. Does Xubuntu needs that daemon (for example)?
<Luyin> elfy: pardon, another question: why trusty? trusty's released already. what is tested with trusty atm?
<elfy> luyin there are point releases during the whole LTS cycle - we're testing the .2 release
<elfy> it's a fortnight late ... but is due out tomorrow now
<Luyin> ah, alright
<elfy> Akusari: that's why the new images :)
<elfy> it also had xscreensaver 
<Akusari> cool :-) I guess they are removed now. I can test it if i'm at home (after work right now)
<elfy> yep - should finally be good ones 
<Akusari> hmmm, xscreensaver wasn't on my list... :-/
<elfy> that's ok - it was on ours :)
<Akusari> sure, but in this case it looks like my "compare" technics has some errors :-(
<elfy> :)
<Akusari> or my "list" command dpkg -l isn't safe enought
<ochosi> Akusari: we had a community wallpaper contest for 14.04, i think the next one will happen the earliest for 16.04, unless someone signs up to do all the work...
<elfy> ohhh
<elfy> I work out now who Akusari is on m/l :p
<Akusari> ochosi: Okay, it wasn't my idea to enter an contest. Just a small hint :-)
<ochosi> elfy: oh wow, that was fast! :D
<elfy> yea - didn't get up till a short while ago - not on second tea pot yet ;)
<ochosi> Akusari: yeah, what i was trying to say is: we don't usually just add wallpapers to our default install, when we do, we hold community contests, and those are laborious
 * ochosi is also looking for coffee
<Akusari> ochosi: yes, that's okay for me :-)
<elfy> ochosi: personally I think that we should start the ball rolling for 16.04 wallpaper - and it should be a community thing - we should just get involved at the setting up what we need and at the end when choosing
<ochosi> yeah, tbh right now i don't have any time resources for that
<elfy> if the community isn't interested enough - just revert to a standard thing
<elfy> yep - really should be community driven imo
<ochosi> most of my current time here is eaten up with artwork or following up on uploads or the bigger breakage
<ochosi> and the rest is all dedicated to the next xfce release...
<Akusari> elfy: Oops, yeah, on the email dev list i'm Daniel Mehrmann :)
<ochosi> that's fine, the irc client shows your name too anyway ;)
<elfy> yea - I'm just slower than normal right now :)
<Akusari> and on lp it's daniel-mehrmann :-)
<elfy> yep, worked that out from tracker :D
<Akusari> :-)
<elfy> ochosi: volume bar appears to not be white anymore but a blue - should I be expecting that :)
<ochosi> ehm, volume bar where what?
<ochosi> better accompany statements like that with an imgur link ;
<ochosi> )
<elfy> not easy to grab one of those
<ochosi> notification?
<ochosi> or what are you talking about?
<elfy> vol notification
<ochosi> hmno, that shouldn't be blue at all
<elfy> yea - thin white border, normal body colour - the bar is blue
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/JQltXPn.png
<elfy> nope 
<ochosi> (that wasn't so hard...)
<ochosi> greybird and vivid, that is
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/WZbV5s9.png
<ochosi> could you check which notification theme you're using?
<elfy> default
<ochosi> yeah, switch over to greybird
<elfy> just did :)
<ochosi> and..?
<elfy> white again :D
<ochosi> k :)
<ochosi> no idea why it was set to default for you
<ochosi> that really shouldn't be the case
<elfy> well .... 
<ochosi> is this a new install or still your borked one? :]
<elfy> fiddling about with going down to previous lightdm-gtk-greeter to see if I could suss the no numlock issue
<elfy> that was a mistake ... 
<ochosi> oh, aha
<elfy> once I got back - it'd done all sorts to themes and fonts ... 
<elfy> could be time to do a clean install ... 
<ochosi> luckily i never use numlock, so i wouldn't notice regressions in that respect
<elfy> bah
<elfy> trusty seems to have the abiword with the space bar bug 
<ochosi> great, so they backported that bug?
<ochosi> or did we just not notice it earlier
<elfy> possibly didn't notice - but pretty sure we'd have seen it 
<Akusari> well, one of the first things I do on a xubuntu installation is: apt-get install libreoffice :-P
<Luyin> Akusari seems to have followed the prolongued discussion on the mailing list ;)
<Akusari> nope, this was an independent case :-)
<elfy> ochosi: appears to be the same versions of abiword in  .1 and .2
<elfy> ochosi: no - I lied version change 
<Akusari> i'm using lo since years now (on Windows) and as i switched to linux (xubuntu) back it was logical in my case to use the same software. :-) I never used abiword. So, i can't tell you anything about it :-) I guess thats fair
<Akusari> Maybe you can criticize that i never test abiword, so it had no chance in my case :-)
<elfy> nope - I only use it to smoketest 
<elfy> never actually use it 
<Akusari> so, the meeting starts in about 10 minutes?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: if you can put together a .dsc I'll sponsor it for you, otherwise will get to it tonight
<elfy> Akusari: should do :)
<Akusari> cool, i'll enjoy it as a guest if its allowed 
<elfy> absolutely - they are community meetings - the only thing you'd not be able to do is vote if there is a team vote
<Akusari> that's clear :-)
<elfy> exactly the same as m/l 
<Akusari> but i guess it's possible to send comments :-)
<elfy> yep
<Akusari> well, i think i will more listen then speak ;-)
<bluesabre> !team | meeting in 4 minutes
<ubottu> meeting in 4 minutes: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> my irc client is crashing every time it loses focus :\
<elfy> good job you're running the meeting then , just focus on the task at hand :D
<ochosi> ehm, use irssi?
<ochosi> lol
<bluesabre> :p
<bluesabre> !team | meeting time!
<ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 18 11:00:22 2015 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> !team | Who's around?
<ubottu> Who's around?: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> o/
<bluesabre> small group, eh?
<ochosi> only the (hard!) core
<elfy> but usefully given tomorrow all in -release :D
<slickymasterWork> o/ sort of
<bluesabre> hey brainvvash
<brainvvash> hi bluesabre
<brainvvash> and hi brainwash 
<bluesabre> #topic Open action items
<bluesabre> saw a few there for elfy and knome
<elfy> yep 
<knome> hello
<bluesabre> hiya knome
<ochosi> oh wow, so if we just wait long enough, everyone will be here :)
<elfy> bluesabre: actually they look like they're all done - further down
<knome> hah :D
<elfy> ochosi: rather than rolling release - have a rolling meeting :)
<bluesabre> indeed :D
<bluesabre> moving on then :)
<bluesabre> #topic Team Updates
<elfy> #info Trusty .2 testing - finally moving again
<elfy> #info Daily vivid testing - moving in fits and starts
<elfy> nothing else here
<bluesabre> Sounds progress-y
<elfy> yep
<elfy> next week ... 
<bluesabre> #info xfce seems to be on track for the 4.12 release towards the end of the month
<bluesabre> ^ ochosi is that safe to say?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> #info xfce4-settings 4.11.4 released, available in vivid
<bluesabre> #info xfwm4 4.11.3 released, available in vivid
<bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings uploaded to vivid-proposed, awaiting archive admin approval
<bluesabre> #info Unit193 updated the seed, xubuntu-desktop now depends on xubuntu-core
<bluesabre> #info libxfce4util 4.11.0-1 pushed to vivid
<ochosi> i wonder whether that's still ok for us to get it into 15.04
<ochosi> but since most components should be bugfix only, it could
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> i would also try to make the push, it's only sane to do that
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> #info Created a launchpad project for xfpanel-switch, https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch, will not be including in vivid, postponed until 15.10
<knome> maybe the tech lead could preliminarily talk with the release team about this incoming stuff
<ochosi> #info Xfce4.12 release now has a clear roadmap and dates: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap
<ochosi> (sorry, was distracted updating that ^ page ;D)
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, I should do that
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to speak with release team about getting xfce-4.12 in vivid (FF)
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to speak with release team about getting xfce-4.12 in vivid (FF)
<ochosi> yup, this is one more reason why i updated the roadmap page
<knome> FF where appropriate, if it is like ochosi said that many are bugfix releases only :)
<ochosi> so you have some refs for them
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> it should be fine, don't imagine any hurdles there
<knome> maybe it'd help if somebody who is assisting the xfce release would put up a list of new releases we need in and if they are bugfix-only or not ;)
<bluesabre> #info xubuntuteam trello created, https://trello.com/xubuntuteam
<bluesabre> I think I'm out of updates now
<slickymasterWork> #info Unit193 made several fixes to the documentation, including lowering the required translation cut-off percentage to 70 and some rewriting on the internet-networks chapter
<knome> #info User survey #1 started, have 310+ responses already
<ochosi> knome: i think we pretty much have all 4.11 pre-releases in already
<knome> :)
<ochosi> only those that are yet to come, and we don't need all of those
<ochosi> (e.g. the xfce engine we likely won't install...)
<knome> yup
<bluesabre> any other updates?
<knome> would be fuzzy, i've progressed with some of my stuff but nothing clear :P
<knome> well
<knome> #info development wallpaper uploaded
 * bluesabre claps
<knome> that that's probably it
<ochosi> #info Greybird now supports the ubiquity panel
<ochosi> #info Greybird has been updated for lightdm-gtk-greeter2.0
<ochosi> #info Our icon-theme has been extended with lots of new symbolic icons for gtk3 apps
<bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0 released, available in vivid
<knome> #info full mirrors list up on xubuntu.org for downloads
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, You can override symbolic icon in GTK 3.14 now ð
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I see lightdm-gtk-settings landed ð
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: I think its still chilling in the NEW queue, but we should hopefully get it in shortly
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I am very confused about that queue.
<ochosi> bluesabre: i thought didrocks already accepted it to proposed?
<flexiondotorg> My PPA show that a new version of lightdm-gtk-settings is available.
<bluesabre> maybe it is in now then
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Do you know anyone who can review the queue?
<ochosi> bluesabre: at least that's what i told you yesterday (you really suck at reading your backlog! :D)
<flexiondotorg> All the Ubuntu MATE "glue" packages are not yet actioned ð
<elfy> ha
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, How did you add support for ubiquity-panel to greybird?
<bluesabre> any more updates? slickymasterWork ?
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Thanks.
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: we're in the middle of a meeting, let's talk later
 * bluesabre loves how long this #info list is
<flexiondotorg> sorry
<ochosi> np
<bluesabre> ochosi: -proposed isn't the last step, things get stuck there for weeks at a time
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but it's one step after NEW, no?
<bluesabre> perhaps
<bluesabre> next up
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #subtopic Xubuntu Core upgrade issue
<bluesabre> #link http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-core-upgrade
<bluesabre> Is this one still an issue, or is that resolved with the recent seed updates?
<ochosi> where's Unit193 now..?
<elfy> finally asleep ... 
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: he couldn't make it this morning as I understand
<ochosi> yeah, i know ;)
<elfy> bluesabre: I thought this was done with the updates
<bluesabre> its on the wiki page, thats all I know
<ochosi> i wonder whether this just needs testing
<bluesabre> I think it is done, but can't be certain
<ochosi> yeah, i think there were no further comments made when he added it
<elfy> possibly ochosi 
<elfy> testing that is
<ochosi> let's keep it around for the next meeting or until when he's back then
<ochosi> or add an #action for him :D
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<bluesabre> #nick Unit193
<bluesabre> #action Unit193 to follow up on Xubuntu Core upgrade issue (if anything is left)
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to follow up on Xubuntu Core upgrade issue (if anything is left)
<elfy> action him to tie up with me for testing needs
<bluesabre> #action Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
<bluesabre> so that item is out of the way
<elfy> ty
<ochosi> good
<bluesabre> elfy: does it seem like the 14.04.2 and 15.04 daily image problems should be fully resolved now?
<elfy> seems so - not had time to check 15.04 
<elfy> but ... 
<elfy> trusty .2 has the abiword space bug 
<bluesabre> >.<
<elfy> bug 1395323
<ubottu> bug 1395323 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword opens multiple windows when spacebar is pressed, until a new file is opened" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395323
<elfy> it's possible it was there in .1 and the original, but I don't think so 
<bluesabre> well, that's unfortunate
<Akusari> I'll test 14.04.2 this evening again :-) (Report on mail dev list if we have a show stopper)
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> #action As many tests for trusty .2 before tomorrow afternoon from anyone who can
<meetingology> ACTION: As many tests for trusty .2 before tomorrow afternoon from anyone who can
<bluesabre> will work on cranking some out tonight
<elfy> I'd like to point out that Beta 1 testing next week as well
<elfy> #action Elfy to mail list(s) about Beta 1 testing
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to mail list(s) about Beta 1 testing
<bluesabre> I'm excited about that, my development env is a mess and I need a fresh install
<knome> :)
<elfy> given we've not done any milestones yet - would be good to get a nice turnout for that one 
<elfy> bluesabre: funny you should say that ... same here :)
<knome> elfy, as always, just ping me and the other one and we'll put stuff in social media
<elfy> knome: yep - thanks :)
<bluesabre> anything else interesting to discuss?
<knome> well
<elfy> knome: you know the half discussion I started about getting a poll of sorts on the slide
<elfy> should we put that on agenda? 
<knome> #info contributors - udpate your work items to keep the status website up-to-date
<knome> elfy, put that on a blueprint
<knome> we should just do it (tm)
<elfy> ok :)
<ochosi> the overall progress looks okayish: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-flavor-xubuntu.html
<ochosi> given that much of what's TODO are bugs
<knome> i'm just updating stuff related to me, will be a bit better tomorrow :)
<ochosi> yeah, in general i think it's better than the graph suggests
<elfy> added that to blueprint
<knome> which is why people should update the work items :)
<knome> oh and also..
<knome> if there are things that you have clearly done but are marked with some team, take those to yourself
<knome> technically it makes no differene, but you'll get some more credit for your work, this will be up forever
<slickymasterWork> elfy, shouldn't that item also be added to the -docs blueprint, since it also involves it via the installer slideshow?
<elfy> slickymasterWork: probably ... 
<slickymasterWork> I'll do it
<knome> slickymasterWork, i'd say one work item per item to work; if you want it in both, split it :P
<ochosi> +1
<knome> eg. marketing to plan survey slide; docs to add survey slide
<elfy> changed marketing one to reflect that
<slickymasterWork> knome, I wasn't saying to add the exact same item, but to add a reference of it in the -docs blueprint
<knome> yeah yeah ;)
<elfy> slickymasterWork: I'll do it now 
<ochosi> bluesabre: what's the status on this? "Update Catfish and Mugshot authentication to use PolicyKit"
<ochosi> (in the light of FF)
<bluesabre> upcoming milestones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<bluesabre> February 19 (tomorrow): Feature Freeze, Debian Import Freeze
<bluesabre> February 23: Beta Freeze
<bluesabre> February 26: Beta 1
<bluesabre> March 12: UI Freeze
<slickymasterWork> I'm doing it elfy 
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm going to have to FFe those
<ochosi> bluesabre: and shouldn't we mark this as POSTPONED? Create a UI for the panel-switch application
<bluesabre> had to rethink some things to make that happen, progress is happening
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, need to do that as well
<ochosi> even though it's in progress, but it clearly won't make it for 15.04
<ochosi> or we mark it as done
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> both is fine
<ochosi> because the UI has been created
<ochosi> the workitem didn't say "upload and install by default" :D
<elfy> bluesabre: if you're doing things with mugshot - going to try and deal with the camera issue ?
<bluesabre> elfy: I took a look, couldn't find the source of the problem :\
<elfy> mmm
<bluesabre> the camera does take the picture if you hit record, just doesn't display anything until you apply
<elfy> I'll recheck that when I do clean install next week
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> might be some gstreamer issue there
<bluesabre> related, I played with "cheese" a lot that day, its silly fun
<bluesabre> :p
<elfy> ok - I'll try and remember to do check before I start adding things :)
<knome> bluesabre, oh my...
<bluesabre> knome: lol
<bluesabre> ochosi: updated the blueprint
<elfy> knome: re next poll, try and set up a 3 way with pleia2 ? 
<knome> sure, but she'll be away for at least this week
<ochosi> woot
<ochosi> a 3 way?
<knome> ochosi, it's not how you imagined it you pervert
<ochosi> i thought this was a family-friendly channel
<bluesabre> elfy, oh my...
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: weee, pitti just updated greeter-settings
<bluesabre> woooooo!
<elfy> knome: don't think there's a mad rush for that, be nice to see if we can get some info in this cycle before the whole cycle one needs sorting 
<knome> yep
<Akusari> where can i get new lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0 and - settings ? xubuntu-stage ppa ?
<ochosi> nope, i think either bluesabre's PPA for it or vivid proposed
<ochosi> btw, one more thing i forgot...
<elfy> vivid proposed? 
<ochosi> i think so, no?
<bluesabre> should show up in vivid later today
<Akusari> bingo , get it :-)
<elfy> ochosi: not using that one here - just the staging one
<elfy> anyway - sorry I interrupted you remembering something :)
<ochosi> yeah, it's not that important, but gmusicbrowser might have a new release very soonish
<ochosi> it just got gstreamer1.0 support
<ochosi> we could try to FFe it
<knome> i would +1 that, it's still in our seed
<elfy> or remove it from the seed :p
<ochosi> but unfortunately that still doesn't mean we can get rid of gst0.10
<knome> boo
<ochosi> because of xfburn and pidgin
<bluesabre> one step closer anyway
<ochosi> yeah true
<bluesabre> two projects that don't ever do huge releases
<ochosi> xfburn we can theoretically take care of ourselves, pidgin is a different beast
<bluesabre> its going to be a while
<ochosi> could also set a bug bounty for that on xfburn
<ochosi> anyway... that was it from my side
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> anything else to discuss? elfy, knome, slickymasterWork ?
<knome> nope
<elfy> nope - I'm good 
<slickymasterWork> nothing from me
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<slickymasterWork> it's a mad house over here, this morning
<Akusari> and i need a smoker break :-P
<elfy> knome is next 
<bluesabre> knome, you want to schedule now or later? :)
<knome> later
<bluesabre> #action knome to schedule the most exciting community meeting ever
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to schedule the most exciting community meeting ever
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> don't let us down!
<elfy> if possible early next week pre-beta would be good from my pov :)
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 18 11:54:09 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-02-18-11.00.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks bluesabre :)
<knome> yeah, will have to coordinate with wife :P
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> thanks all
<bluesabre> thanks everybody
<bluesabre> now go have fun testing 14.04.2 isos
<knome> :)
<Akusari> thanks too. It was real entertainment :-)
<elfy> well the good news is the vivid iso's are a sensible size again - so that's a start :p
 * bluesabre needs to clean the apartment, we either have a busted pipe or a leaky gutter
<knome> ugh
<knome> good luck with that
<elfy> indeed - bad memories of that
<elfy> bah
<Akusari> I guess lightdm-gtk-settings split of lightdm-gtk-greeter into binary (old deb) and configuration files (setting deb) ?
<elfy> vivid 32bit - no try/install options 
<Akusari> or something in this direction?
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre Unit193 - http://i.imgur.com/L5i5TyV.png
<bluesabre> Akusari: lightdm-gtk-greeter could only be configured by editing a test file before
<bluesabre> -settings gives a nice gui
<bluesabre> elfy: two monitor config in vbox?
<Akusari> ahhhh ok thanks. 
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> ??
<elfy> bluesabre: no - 2 instances of vbox - one 32 and one 64 bit
<bluesabre> I see
<elfy> but 32bit is fubar 
<bluesabre> the right one looks a bit troublesome
<Akusari> vbox = virtual box ?
<elfy> Akusari: yep
<Akusari> i prefer vmware :-P
<elfy> bluesabre: indeed - alt+tab shows ubiquity there 
<ochosi> hm strange
<elfy> checking if it's just vm issue
<ochosi> grrr
<ochosi> the greybird ubiquity panel needs a fix :/
<ochosi> obviously that is a fixed-height panel
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'll fix that ^ and then tag a new greybird version...
<Akusari> like i had with vmware player 6.0.5 and trusty iso testing (hang after reboot on step 17)
<bluesabre> minutes are up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna upload a new version of greybird today?
<bluesabre> ochosi: will do this evening
<elfy> ok - so 32bit vivid works properly on hardware
<elfy> vm issues again ... 
<knome> hmp
<elfy> works if you use the live boot menu to try or install, rather than let it do it's thing
<elfy> grabbing an ubuntu 32 bit to double check that one
<elfy> fingers crossed that fails too :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: tagged greybird 1.5.3 for you
<Akusari> Is there any chance that lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.9.0 gets a trusty backport, because there was this nasty bug that the background was choosen from the last user background login. I did a personal backport for myself but i think it would be good for other users too
<elfy> but it didn't, appears to just be us
<ochosi> elfy: :/
<elfy> yea - no idea how to debug that 
<ochosi> some window manager focus problem maybe
<ochosi> i have no clue either
<ochosi> maybe ask one of the ubiquity devs whether they changed anything there
<elfy> perhaps - if you alt tab, you can see it's there - but can't get to it 
<ochosi> that was 14.04.2 or vivid?
<elfy> vivid 
<ochosi> ok, i might try to run a test for that today
<elfy> I'd really be :| if it was trusty :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> but only vivid in vbox?
<elfy> and only 32bit
<ochosi> only 32bit but both vbox and hardware?
<elfy> sorry - confusing you :)
<elfy> 32bit vivid daily in vbox fails 
<elfy> bug 1423161
<ubottu> bug 1423161 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No try/install dialogue displayed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423161
<elfy> slickymasterWork: ^^ 32bit vbox fail bug
<slickymasterWork> it's still present elfy 
<slickymasterWork> what I mean, is this on new images or 2015-02-16 images?
<elfy> yep - this is image dated today
<slickymasterWork> I'll add me to it since I saw it 
<slickymasterWork> elfy, what do you think of setting it as Critical?
<elfy> yea - I did 
<slickymasterWork> also done in LP elfy 
<Akusari> my lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0 backport for trusty is on the way :-) https://launchpad.net/~daniel-mehrmann/+archive/ubuntu/test/+build/6988911
<elfy> ty slickymasterWork 
<elfy> off for a bit now
<knome> same here, fetching lunch
<jjfrv8> elfy, I just checked and the abiword bug was present in the .1 release of T.  Both .1 and .2 have the 3.0.0 version. 3.0.1 is the fixed version.
<jjfrv8> I noticed it too in my post-install tests but I figured it was normal that they don't do SRU updates for apps except for critical things.  Is that not the case?
<knome> " Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel). "
<knome> so, things like that are up for consideration
<knome> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
<jjfrv8> ah, thx.
<jjfrv8> guess they should have put it in there, then. :(
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I wouldn't mind if you could give me a short list of the changes in xfce4-settings. Just so I don't miss anything.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, appearance settings is easy (and obvious): gtk themes have color-palette previews now, icon themes have previews now. that's about it if i'm not mistaken
<ochosi> so basically new screenshots and mentioning the palette/icon-previews in a sentence would be enough
<ochosi> the display dialog now supports DND layout for monitors, setting the primary display (tooltip explains what that is), display hotplugging (open minimal dialog when new display is detected), identify displays (show popup on each display to identify them)
<ochosi> that's the shortlist
<jjfrv8> ochosi, thanks. One more questions, assuming you still would like screenshots, should there be an updated list of default, installed styles?
<jjfrv8> *question :)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i guess that's not crucial
<ochosi> you could put the xfce themes there, that would sorta make sense
<ochosi> as a minimum requirement
<ochosi> for icon-themes i dunno, maybe gnome, elementary-xfce, faenza
<ochosi> whatever you have installed
<jjfrv8> oh, yeah, again, I'm getting xubuntu and xfce mixed up.
<ochosi> np
<jjfrv8> bbl
<knome> pleia2, ping me again when you're back, let's see about switching to https://blog.twitter.com/2015/introducing-tweetdeck-teams
<Unit193> "if anything is left" Something is left.
<knome> and something is right?
<Unit193> I got a few pings, answered.  Don't see why my latest changes would have fixed the upgrade issue.
<Unit193> Are we adding the new -settings to the seed?
<knome> i would imagine so
<knome> or at least that we should we aren't currently :)
 * ochosi is afraid of the myriad bugreports this level of customizability of the greeter will bring us...
<knome> heh
<Unit193> If we want it, should add it to the seed asap.
<knome> if the level of customizability is a bug, then we can wontfix those
<knome> Unit193, yapp.
<ochosi> Unit193: +1
<Unit193> Is that an ack or you going to do that now? :P
<ochosi> an ack ;)
<Unit193> Done.
<Unit193> Having direct bzr access is niiiice.
<ochosi> ty Unit193 
<Unit193> Of course.  Now, Sean will need to wait to refresh the meta until after it's published.
<elfy> Unit193: if you get chance could you boot 32bit vivid in a vm - see what you make of it :)
<Unit193> elfy: Live?
<knome> i got to say the new development wallpaper is pleasing to the eye :)
<knome> but in a weird way...
<elfy> Unit193: yea iy you get chance
<elfy> Unit193: 32bit boots to desktop if you use the menu at the beginning - if you wait for the try.instal dialogue - nada 
<Unit193> I don't like maybe-ubiquity. :3
<Unit193> But, will try.
<knome> maybe you do ;)=
<elfy> if we're going to keep getting these issues I'll be telling people to choose earlier :D
<Unit193> We should opt-out. :P
<elfy> of installing :p
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, am I assuming correctly that you have finished everything in the internet-networks chapter?
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: For now.  I tried to keep the changes minimal to not lose any translations.  Shouldn't be much changed.
<Unit193> For now = this cycle.
<slickymasterWork> yeah, ok
<knome> slickymasterWork, are you planning on more updates before the release?
<slickymasterWork> thanks for it
<knome> ochosi, i belive we want the option 1 proposed in https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xubuntu-core.html. since FF is tomorrow, can you ack it?
<knome> ochosi, if you don't have time, you can trust my discretion and ACK it without getting too deep into it
<Unit193> I'd want a second technical ack.
<knome> ochosi, it's in a way very trivial...
<knome> Unit193, does bluesabre suffice, or do you want somebody else to do that?
<Unit193> He might, but as he doesn't know it very well...  krytarik might be a good one, in the relm of Xubuntu.
<ochosi> ok, i've quickly read through the page
<Unit193> ochosi: And the linked lines?
<ochosi> not yet
<ochosi> so hm, that'll be tough, with the little time i have no (practically 0)
<ochosi> s/no/now/
<Unit193> < Unit193> Or, we could have it as it is, except just add 'if xubuntu-core is installed, a-ok!"
<ochosi> i think i'd prefer if sean could ack this
<knome> or we can have somebody who's outside xubuntu ack it
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> ochosi, if you can ack the general direction...
<ochosi> general direction being: we want to resolve potential upgrade issues?
<knome> yes
<knome> and not install desktop if you only have core
<Unit193> ochosi: Option 1. If neither xubuntu-core nor xubuntu-desktop is installed, install xubuntu-core.  option 2. If neither xubuntu-core nor xubuntu-desktop is installed, install xubuntu-desktop.
<Unit193> Both mean if xubuntu-core or xubuntu-desktop is installed, carry on like normal and install no new metapackage.
<ochosi> yeah, figured
<ochosi> i guess i lean towards 1)
<ochosi> people who do unclean upgrades should sorta know what they're doing
<Unit193> I do.
<ochosi> so installing less packages on their behalf is maybe better
<Unit193> Oh, that wasn't pointed, nevermind.
<knome> and people who don't have -desktop or -core probably rather get -core than -desktop.
<ochosi> yeah
<Unit193> Reminds me I should move light-locker recommends to core..
<knome> and since removing abiword shouldn't mean removing -desktop in vivid and future, -desktop is harder to accidentally drop
<Unit193> knome: And your survey supported that people don't do that anyway.
<ochosi> ok folks, gotta run, have a nice evening
<knome> Unit193, do what?
<Unit193> knome: Remove stuff.
<knome> ochosi, hf
<ochosi> u2
<knome> well, about half of the people do
<knome> but i think that's more of a question for the next poll anyway
<knome> what do you remove after installing
<knome> if it's stuff that doesn't get xubuntu-desktop removed (from vivid), then this doesn't affect them in any way
<knome> if it's stuff that does, what is it?
<knome> the next survey questions are already clearer in my mind
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/IE5aIsNbynfkFlErv7oX one of those! :P
<Unit193> Note, we can also recommend things in core and depend on them in desktop.
<knome> there's going to be interesting questions for the devel team in the future
<knome> should -artwork be recommends?
<knome> should -default-settings be in -core?
<Unit193> 1. Not in core, but in desktop yes.  2. Yes.
<knome> yep.
<knome> i would lean towards that too
<Unit193> knome: We already went over this, it is "Xubuntu" core, not xfce4.
<knome> absolutely
<knome> that isn't a question of just core though
<knome> if somebody installs xubuntu-desktop with no recommends, they won't get the artwork
<knome> which is...
<knome> well, that's not ideal.
<knome> imo
<knome> but otoh, removing the artwork should probably keep -desktop
<Unit193> knome: That's also false. :P
<knome> why is it? :P
<knome> why do you say my opinions are false? :P
<Unit193> apt-get install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-core   will even get me artwork.
<knome> oh.
<Unit193> Please to look at seed.
<knome> noooo
<knome> i'm fine with how it is
<knome> i love to be proven wrong when i say something i don't like :)
<knome> but it all makes sense
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.vivid/core.html - https://sigma.unit193.net/xubuntu.vivid/desktop.html  There, I make them pretty!
<knome> have we planned to do these changes in vivid?
<knome> because i can't see a reason why we wouldn't, with all the seed poking.
<Unit193> knome: What changes?
<knome> artwork to recommends in desktop
<Unit193> And planned, well that's non-blueprinted, so..
<knome> default-settings in core
<knome> and recommends in desktop?
<knome> well has there been any discussion about that
<Unit193> artwork isn't mentioned in desktop, it's a dep of core.  I believe I did plan to do this.
<knome> oh.
<Unit193> Well, kind of.
<knome> so is the paste a depends of core?
<Unit193> apt-cache show xubuntu-desktop | grep Dep
<Unit193> Look at the html files, those are the seeds.
<knome> don't make me do stuff like that, answer my simple boolean question :P
<Unit193> I did, in a technical way.  The desktop metapackage inherits all depends and recommends of core, it's why I removed them from desktop (or, now it does.  After I changed things all around.)
<knome> ok, good
<knome> then even more so i think we should do the metapackage change that fixes core upgrades
<Unit193> elfy: I, err, can install...  But yeah nothing about that is normal at all.
<elfy> mmm - so you can see and use the try/install dialogue?
<Unit193> Nope, that's why it's not normal.  It's all broken.
<elfy> right ok 
<elfy> getting fed up with vbox issues 
<brainvvash> didn't one user report something similar few days ago? no install window when using a small screen (netbook)
<elfy> the QA jam
<brainvvash> ah yes
<brainvvash> was that issue resolved?
<elfy> not sure tbh
<elfy> and ... vbox 32 bit was fine - now it's not 
<brainvvash> it's a mystery
<brainvvash> something ubiquity related is always broken
<elfy> what's weirder this time is 64bit is ok
<Unit193> libxfce4ui 4.11.2 looks like something very good to add.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I've packaged whiskermenu 1.5.0 if you have time to upload
<Unit193> What's new?
<Noskcaj> http://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/
<Noskcaj> A fair few things
<Akusari> hello :-)
<Noskcaj> Hi Akusari 
<Akusari> Just a question before i start my iso-testing: Current i see "Xubuntu Desktop amd64 (re-building)". So it's build and i should wait a little bit?
<Noskcaj> yes
<Akusari> ok
<Akusari> i don't wanna test old stuff :)
<Akusari> However, it would be the best time now. My wife hangs on the phone and that gives me some time ;-)
<Unit193> "Load default settings from XDG location"
<Unit193> I'd consider that important.
<Noskcaj> Akusari, It's only 1 day out, so most bugs you find would be the same.
<elfy> Noskcaj: let's not put people off testing when they've not been about long - thanks ;)
<Noskcaj> ?
<Akusari> ok, i understand. Well, i need preperation time as well now. :-) Cleaning up my system. reset the first snapshots and so on
<elfy> likely to be a while till the rebuild is built 
<Akusari> Well, you know womens needs _hours_ on the phone., so there is no time pressure :-)
<elfy> heh
<Akusari> ok, i'm ready to go. It looks like the build is still running, but a perfect moment for a smoker break B-)
<Akusari> As expected simple backup runs now on my machine, but it shouldn't take a long time. Just a incremental backup over nfs
<Akusari> cron jobs ;-)
<Akusari> btw: I'm really impressed by xubuntu (xfce). I played a lot of hours diablo III on this machine and no hang up's, no freeze - just nothing. Really stable and you know diablo is a Windows game used with wine
<Akusari> I was expecting these kind of problems. So, i need to pull my hat :-)
<Akusari> oh...rebuild finished...let's go :-)
<Akusari> oops: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/trusty/daily-live/20150218.1/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso   ...not found :-\ maybe i'm a bit to fast
<Akusari> or build failed?
<elfy> nah - you're too quick - give it a little while to wake up 
<Akusari> lol, well, you can call me vettel (formula 1 driver) :-P
<elfy> :)
<genii> I sort of find it odd that it's a Trusty daily and not Vivid
<elfy> testing trusty .2 genii :)
<genii> Aaah, OK
<Akusari> so i'm waitung for your release message
<Akusari> :-)
<elfy> my release message? 
<Akusari> just tell, ok, cdimage is online or so
<Akusari> or post the link (whatever)
<Akusari> Let's watch soccer while i'm waiting :-) (CL schalke - real madrid)
<elfy> Akusari: oic - looks good now
<Akusari> oic?
<Akusari> yep, downloading now...
<Akusari> 30 seconds to go :-)
<elfy> oh I see :)
<knome> Akusari, no need to output progress status messages every 30 seconds ;)
<Akusari> ok :)
<Akusari> Maybe i should stream a live webcam from the installation :-P
<knome> Akusari, you can do that freely at #xubuntu-offtopic 
<Akusari> Come on, that was a joke of course (just my humor) :-) i'm sorry
<knome> i'm not completely serious either :P
<elfy> :)
<Akusari> :-)
<Akusari> I guess there is no need to do a packges check again ? (you did it already?)
<elfy> Akusari: you just need to smoketest thanks 
<Akusari> ok
<Akusari> lucky elfy that i'm a real smoker *rofl*
<elfy> so was I 
<elfy> Akusari: you really should join the offtopic channel ;)
<Noskcaj> Are we dropping gtk3-engines-xfce for 15.04?
<Unit193> Noskcaj: I'm looking at libxfce4ui, xfconf, and the engines.
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll leave it to you then
<Noskcaj> Can you do dev-tools too please
<Unit193> Unless you were already working on any, that is.
<Noskcaj> I've not started on any of them
<Unit193> Before I do 'em, want any?
<Noskcaj> I've got engines branched, if you want me to take that
<Unit193> gtk-xfce-engine 3.1.0?  Alright, have fun.
<Unit193> ochosi specifically wanted that one.
<Noskcaj> Are we dropping the gtk3 engine for 15.04?
<flexiondotorg> Evening
<Noskcaj> hey flexiondotorg 
<flexiondotorg> Noskcaj, Hi ð
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, I got caught up with "stuff" earlier. Are you still about?
<Unit193> brainvvash, brainwash: Any bugs we should be aware of?
<Akusari> elfy: wow no bugs! First time that vmware player 6.0.5 not hanging after step 17 (entire disk) :-)
<elfy> cool - thanks :)
 * knome sighs and starts the final polishing stuff for the staging site
<knome> elfy, did you ever try the latest navigation for the small sizes?
<elfy> ooh
<elfy> no I didn't 
<Akusari> elfy: i'll do some more tests now (manual partition, lvm setup and so on)
<knome> well please do now and report complaints if any :)
<elfy> knome: ack
<knome> i'll be playing around with the gallery and attachment pages at least
<elfy> Akusari: you are welcome to test lvm - but we don't ask for that nor have anywhere on tracker to report that
<Akusari> ok, manual partitioning only :-)
<flexiondotorg> Noskcaj, bluesabre elfy ochosi ali1234 I mentioned earlier that in GTK 3.14 it is possible to override symbolic icons and re-instate full colour icons.
<flexiondotorg> Is this something Xubuntu are interested in?
<ali1234> it should be up to the theme?
<elfy> knome: reports in here?
<elfy> evening ali1234 
<ali1234> i quite like symbolic icons
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Yes is it a theme feature.
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, That is why I ask.
<ali1234> i dunno. i foolishly said i'd port orion to gtk 3.14
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Because in MATE the mix of symbolic icons in GTK3 applications and full color icons in elsewhere looks a bit jarring.
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-themes/commit/c2b2e6d753de14f6109a135166ceec9222657d40
<brainvvash> Unit193, bugs in which component?
<Unit193> brainvvash: I was looking at xfconf and libxfce4ui, snagged one per from upstream.
<Noskcaj> I have to go to school, and haven't finished the engines. If someone wants to take them, feel free
<andrzejr> Hi, looks like I cannot use _() macro in neither xfce4-indicator-plugin nor xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin.
<andrzejr> at very least that means I haven't broken the config when copying it from *-indicator-* to *-pulseaudio-* - it has been broken before.
<andrzejr> interestingly in the indicator plugin I use N_() macros and they work fine. Any idea what can be wrong?
<brainvvash> no clue
<brainvvash> andrzejr, any news re https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656 ? should we just disable/comment the code part to prevent the bug?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10656 in General "Dragging a panel window button turns external panel plugin black" [Normal,New]
<andrzejr> I don't have any better idea. IMHO we should disable it for a stable release
<brainvvash> yes, it could be re-enabled in a point release
<brainvvash> in case a solution can be found
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-release-upgrader/core-upgrades/+merge/250224
<Akusari> good night all :-)
<Unit193> G'night.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, you should check out /source/ for the new stuff.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, I got libxfce4ui and xfconf in ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, I may look into xfce4-dev-tools now and pop it into /source/ and ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, did I ping you enough now? :---------D
<elfy> I knew I shouldn't add bluesabre to my ping list 
<Unit193> It seems I'm supposed to mention that core brings in xscreensaver still, while desktop brings in light-locker.
<knome> huhu
<knome> :P
<Unit193> xscreensaver just happens to be what it brings in due to xfce4-session, not actually as seeded.
<elfy> !team
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<Unit193> elfy: What you ping me for? :(
<elfy> if anyone is going to test anything for trusty - please concentrate on 32 bit - thanks :D
<elfy> cos I can Unit193 
<knome> haha :)
<elfy> Unit193: at least you're about
<elfy> Unit193: and won't see them all later :p
<Unit193> knome: Please to ack.
<knome> ack what?
<Unit193> Added you to the MP since Simon was sleeping.
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> Unit193: so you have uploads for me it seems
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<Unit193> So it would seem. :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: did you add -settings to the seed?
<Unit193> Yes.
 * bluesabre is slow to get to his inbox
<bluesabre> yay
<Unit193> !info lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings vivid
<ubottu> Package lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings does not exist in vivid
<bluesabre> too new
<Unit193> Mhmm, so don't update the meta yet.
<bluesabre> ok, will do that late tonight or tomorrow morning then
<Unit193> gtk2-engines-xfce is now in /source/ too, I disabled gtk3.
<ochosi> evening all
<elfy> evening ochosi 
 * ochosi is still reading backlog
 * elfy provides index
<elfy> S - Stuff
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
 * bluesabre avoids links, they crash quassel on hover
<knome> ahhaha. :)
<bluesabre> probably since we just got some new qt in the archive on monday
<knome> xu, humm?
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, we should move our whiskermenu config accordingly for 1.5.0
<ochosi> quite a good change, that
<Unit193> dget https://sigma.unit193.net/source/gtk2-engines-xfce_3.1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/libxfce4ui_4.11.2-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/light-locker_1.6.0-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-dev-tools_4.11.1-0ubuntu1.dsc  -  https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfconf_4.11.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Unit193> ochosi: Indeed, and doesn't have to migrate as it was in usr/share (which, to some extent is nice. :P )
 * bluesabre is about to get all uploady
<Unit193> bluesabre: Please review!
 * bluesabre is about to get all reviewy
<Unit193> \o/
<elfy> ha ha 
<Unit193> bluesabre: And, sorry for giving you so much work too. :P
<bluesabre> haha
<bluesabre> ok, 
 * bluesabre finally starts reviewing packages
<Unit193> At least I made it fairly easy to see what's been released and what commits have been made...
 * bluesabre nods
<Unit193> bluesabre: I think ochosi only wanted the theme engine for a PPA?
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^ ?
<ochosi> yeah, well it would be nice for me to get some testing for the 4.12 default theme
<ochosi> otherwise i've been the only one using it
<ochosi> and that is unlikely to be a good idea
<elfy> agreed
<elfy> you only see round circles 
<elfy> :D
<bluesabre> oO0o0O
<knome> Ã
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> all circles 
<elfy> apart from the foreign thing with a line :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: so, no archive, ppa only for the theme engine?
<knome> elfy, Ã¶Ã¸ÃÃ¸
<knome> elfy, all from the keyboard without any weird unicode stuff :P
<elfy> show off 
<elfy> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: dunno, archive is ok too, but i'm not sure many use that engine actually...
<ochosi> i mean, yeah, archive is better
<knome> elfy, ÃÅÃÃÃ!
<elfy> anyway - seriously I would think that making easy for me and putting this stuff in a ppa 
<elfy> would cheer me up :)
<knome> elfy, and of course, ÅÃ¦Ã°Ã¥...
<bluesabre> not in our packageset, so itd require a bit more oomph http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/vivid/xubuntu
<elfy> I'll test anything and notice things that knome won't 
<knome> absolutely.
<elfy> like square rectangles and the like
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess then let's go for PPA
<ochosi> testing only makes sense prior to 4.12
<Unit193> I already popped it into a PPA, didn't I?
<ochosi> Unit193: you did?
<ochosi> sorry if i missed that
<bluesabre> Unit193: is ahead of the game
<ochosi> yeah
<Unit193> ochosi: You didn't need gtk3, right?  Support has been dropped and all.
<bluesabre> so with the new engine, do gtk3 themes just use adwaita?
<bluesabre> s/themes/apps
<bluesabre> it seems to be the case
 * bluesabre is not bothered by this
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> Unit193: your gtk engine package works for me
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, we don't want gtk3 engine anymore
<Unit193> Great!
<Unit193> Great!
 * bluesabre moves on to the next package which will actually be uploaded
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-19
<elfy> unless you are me bluesabre - in which case one package removal does all manner of things :p
<elfy> I think I've got about 4 or 5 different visual things going on here now :)
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> elfy: Purge bash.
<bluesabre> greybird's checkboxes and progress bars get funny when switching to other themes
<elfy> purge bash !!!
<elfy> Unit193: I need more than that 
<bluesabre> as I have found
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, that happens in some apps like firefox
<bluesabre> ochosi: its happening even in normal gtk 
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> gtk2 or gtk3?
<elfy> clementine refuses to change twice - quit and start again 
<ochosi> elfy: well that one is qt
<elfy> but it does work like a music player ... 
<elfy> ochosi: yea :)
<bluesabre> a bit of both.. noticed the other day in thunar file properties and session logout, and just now in file-roller
<ochosi> hm, not sure, but i'm not guessing that's something we wanna investigate for real...
<elfy> I've installed a couple of things of late which must bring in nautilus, any file *job* calls that and then it looks really odd
<elfy> jars a bit 
<bluesabre> yeah, nautilus likes to take over
<elfy> dropbox does it
<elfy> oh - disks does it 
<elfy> but then it would I guess being gnome-disk-utility
<Unit193> bluesabre: At least it doesn't clash with xfdesktop though.
<bluesabre> Unit193: it no longer draws on top? woot
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, since that was mentioned earlier, i might inhibit the symbolic icons for the open-file dialog sidebar
<ochosi> bluesabre: or at least try that, to make it look more consistent with thunar again
<bluesabre> ochosi: all right, let me know if anything needs to change in any of my apps to avoid color
<ochosi> nah, i think catfish can stay as it is
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xfdesktop4/vivid/view/head:/debian/patches/xubuntu_improve-nautilus-interactions.patch ?
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh right
<Unit193> ochosi: Still here?  You were okay with xscreensaver ending up getting pulled in with core, but light-locker in desktop.  You still feel this way?
<ochosi> Unit193: well sorta. do the two packages mutually exclude each other?
<ochosi> what i wouldn't want is ppl ending up with both, that could cause hickups
<ochosi> was there a specific/good reason for this?
<Unit193> You can install both.  If you install the core though, you're more likely to have a clue in general and not likely to "upgrade" to desktop.
<ochosi> yeah, but what would be the reason to include two different lockers?
<Unit193> Just wasn't added, mainly.  core doesn't depend on any locker.
<ochosi> so xscreensaver implicitely gets pulled into core?
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> i'm not a huge fan, let's put it this way
<ochosi> and i don't see a good reason to (potentially) include two different lockers
<Unit193> ochosi: Just flip  * (light-locker)  to the 'other' section in core, problem solved.
<ochosi> yup, +1 on that
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^ ?
<ochosi> brb
<bluesabre> probably be a worthwhile change
 * Unit193 calls 'not it' on this one.
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> alrighty
<Unit193> Later on I'll actually sort the whole seed...
<elfy> Unit193: so during the meeting today there's "ACTION: Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs " which was about the core upgrade issue
<elfy> nicely got 2 pings in there
<bluesabre> Unit193: lol, tempted to upload this
<bluesabre> "d/p/lid-closed.patch: Take patch from upstream branch that does something."
<elfy> heh
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well you told me to package it, but I hadn't paid enough attention as to what it did. :P
<bluesabre> (same here)
<bluesabre> I'll reword it a bit
<Unit193> Oh, you're actually uploading that?  I thought it was for a PPA. ;P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Danke.
<Unit193> elfy: Right, well only way to test right now would be for me to throw up a mirror of their upgrade stuff. :P
<Unit193> Do I need to do that?
<elfy> Unit193: well 
<elfy> the way I see it currently - is there any rush for it? 
<Unit193> Hope not.
<Unit193> Heck, don't think it's on a blueprint so it must not be that important.
<elfy> if not would we not be better to work out exactly what scenarios we need to test first?
<elfy> Unit193: yea - it's post -blueprint :)
<elfy> I just wonder if we get it on something now (BP) as an exercise in working out what needs to be done
<elfy> then use next cycle to test it properly - so it's mostly done for LTS
<elfy> Unit193: ^^ does that make sense? not sure what time frame we've got here ofc
<elfy> QA <- last to know ... 
<elfy> :D
<ochosi> folks, with the latest release of libxfce4ui we should check whether shortcuts with and without the Super key still work
<ochosi> regression-testing against this bug: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10373
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10373 in General "libxfce4ui-4.11: 3bb8c7d breaks shortcuts with <Super> modifier" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ochosi> there used to be a launchpad report for that too, can't seem to find it now
<elfy> given that I make an inordinate amount of use of Super I'll look forward to seeing that land in ppa :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> good good
<ochosi> just wanted to let you know in advance
<bluesabre> should land in vivid soon
<elfy> no media kbd here ochosi 
<ochosi> so if you notice a problem between "super + shift + a" and "super + a" you'll know where to look
<ochosi> (as an example ^ )
<elfy> so Super+various Fx buttons control music here 
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> try super plus a modifier like shift
<ochosi> that is reportedly a good way to reproduce the bug
<elfy> yep
<elfy> once I see it land I'll change them all 
<knome> ochosi, elfy: re website: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/.webdev/x-desk-lap.png
<elfy> if I see it I will tell you :D
<knome> "Desktop and Laptops alike..."
<knome> +s
<ochosi> a bit sketchy
<elfy> yay
<ochosi> but why not
<knome> ochosi, i thought you ack'd that direction :P
<ochosi> yeah yeah :)
<elfy> Roobarb and Custard 
<elfy> love it :)
<ochosi> heh
<knome> that being public, i'm taking in all suggestions of artwork that we could use on the website
<knome> eg. if you have an idea of a drawing we could have on the tour page, tell me
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193: ping since you're here anyway ^
<knome> sidi isn't allowed to comment.
<elfy> I /ignore anyway :p
 * sidi comments.
<elfy> I didn't see that 
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> knome: the more i look at it the more i like it
<knome> mhm, i was considering adding some kind of pencil-drawing filter to it
<knome> to make it even a bit rougher...
<elfy> I like that my pen slipped sideways as I drew art :)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that could work
<knome> we can definitely straighten up some of the lines if that makes this feel clumsy
<knome> thing is, it would need to be an inkscape filter...
<elfy> oh words ... 
<ochosi> knome: nah, not sure straightening would be a good idea
<ochosi> but feel free to give it a shot if you disagree
<knome> well not completely
<ochosi> wow, didrocks and pitti contributed to systemd
<Unit193> Of course pitti did.
<bluesabre> It's a pitty ochosi didn't expect that
<bluesabre> It's a pitti ochosi didn't expect that
<bluesabre> joke's not funny once I screw it up :'(
<ochosi> oh, pun times
<knome> haha
<knome> ochosi, you mean phun times?
<ochosi> :]
<ochosi> Unit193: quick comment, i can't technically approve/reject that MR, i can only approve/reject the intention: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-release-upgrader/core-upgrades/+merge/250224
<ochosi> but i presume you're primarily looking for the latter anyway
<ochosi> anyway, i can also ack that tomorrow
<ochosi> night all
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<knome> and with that, i'm out too
<knome> nighty everybody
<Unit193> G'night.
 * bluesabre works on image testing until bed time
<elfy> what a lovely chap 
<elfy> as long as you noticed my ping about 32bit :)
<bluesabre> yes, that's what I'm doing
<elfy> what a lovely chap 
<elfy> :)
<elfy> any smoketests on those is one less I'll do tomorrow ;)
<bluesabre> jjfrv8 also seems to have kick some 32bit butt today too
<bluesabre> +ed
<elfy> really
<elfy> >
<elfy> usually slickymaster hammers into 32 bit and jjfrv8 64bit
 * elfy has numbers ;)
<bluesabre> heh
<Akusari> good morning! I hope everything runs fine with the releasing
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> Unit193: you haven't really replied to my MR question yesterday
<knome> ochosi, almost the last chance... is there something in the staging site that irks you before i start the process to push it to production?
<knome> ochosi, the last thing i'm going to look at now is the header background, which has been WIP/PoC for now
<knome> and i'll do other things before that, so you have approx. a few hours to reply :)
<ochosi> approx a few? :D
<ochosi> k, i'll take a look in a bit
<ochosi> but since i monitored it's progress continuously (more or less), i think i'll just be fine with it
<knome> well, i have no idea how long it'll take to do those $other_things, nor how long i'll poke around with the header img
<knome> but it's 1+ h for sure until i do the IS ticket
<ochosi> k k
<knome> i have small updates planned for a 2.0 version for this theme, so it's also possible to postpone other things for that
<knome> slickymasterWork, you too, last chance to whine about the staging site, will start the process later today
 * slickymasterWork is no whiner :P
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> and won't start now
<knome> sorry, winer :P
<slickymasterWork> I already told you knome that I liked it
<knome> i know
<slickymasterWork> so no whining from this side
<knome> but it's always different when i threat clients with "now i'm going to push it to production"
<knome> they always find things to nag about then
<knome> that's why i've started doing fake calls for pushing :P
<slickymasterWork> you have my thumbs up
<slickymasterWork> not sure if you noted knome, but I pushed a small change to the opening paragraph of the index yesterday 
<elfy> mmm - so I've got like about 25 things to whine about that
<knome> elfy, go ahead ;))
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<elfy> :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, nope, but good good :P
<knome> elfy, even if you had... this would be a good time to tell them
<knome> elfy, i changed the menu arrows a bit today
<elfy> knome: I can tell
<knome> not much and the logic/feature is still the same
<knome> except it also has one more logic error fixed :D
<knome> but i'm off for some real work now
<elfy> :)
<knome> will read the rants when i'm back
<knome> -->
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - ok then - all trusty images tested, I'm good to mark ready if you 2 are
<elfy> next thing ... release notes for it
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy, I'm still testing :P
<elfy> :)
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Are you available?
<ochosi> @work, so only so-so
<meetingology> ochosi: Error: "work," is not a valid command.
<ochosi> good point, meetingology :)
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, I see you add Ubiquity panel compatibility to greybird.
<ochosi> oh right, that
<ochosi> well that's only a very trivial patch to show a custom background on ubiquity's panel
<flexiondotorg> Which required a new image, right? Anything else?
<ochosi> that is if you use/show that panel
<ochosi> (although i think you should, mostly xfwm4/xfce was exempt of showing it)
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, So I do use the ubiquity-dm and it's panel.
<ochosi> it's a new image-bg and you also need to patch ubiquity
<ochosi> lemme dig up my patch (it's really trivial)
<flexiondotorg> By default, the ubiquity panel is themed like Ambiance.
<ochosi> there you go: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/ubiquity/xubuntu-panel-bg/+merge/247001
<ochosi> yes, indeed
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Thanks very much.
<ochosi> n
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> elfy: almost there, i'll do a quick smoketest for 14.04.2 myself in a few
<elfy> \o/
<ochosi> phew, zsync finally finished
<ochosi> brb
<bluesabre> elfy: a-ok from me
 * ochosi already boots the vm
<ochosi> can't take much longer i guess
<ochosi> elfy: the black bg on the try/install ubiquity screen is still expected in 14.04.2?
<elfy> afaik - certainly not seen that any different since last year
<ochosi> guess we could've backported the fix from vivid, then again...
<ochosi> it's not really that crucial
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> ok, live-session looks good.
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> certainly a good start :)
<elfy> :D
<elfy> better than 2 weeks ago for sure :p
<ochosi> knome: even a year later, i still like the trusty wp, nice work on that one
<elfy> bluesabre: by any chance got a list of fixes that made it back to trusty since .1  for the release notes?
<bluesabre> not a good one, several of our updates got stopped because they introduced a flurry of new bugs
<ochosi> "14.04.2 Release notes: This release contains *moar fixes*."
<bluesabre> looks like this one is in -updates
<bluesabre> xfdesktop4 (4.11.8-0ubuntu0.1)
<bluesabre>   * New upstream development and bugfix release (LP: #1365965)
<bluesabre>   * debian/patches/xubuntu_set-accountsservice-user-bg.patch: update
<bluesabre>     patch to only update on first workspace filename change
<bluesabre>  -- Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com>  Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:53:04 -0400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1365965 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[MRE] Please update xfdesktop4 to 4.11.8 in Trusty" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365965
<bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings (14.04.6) trusty; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   [ Bruno Nova ]
<bluesabre>   * etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<bluesabre>   - Add Settings submenu to main menu to make launchers in the Settings
<bluesabre>     category appear in Whisker menu (LP: #1310264)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310264 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu Trusty) "Can't search/find items in the Settings Manager" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310264
<bluesabre>  -- Sebastien Bacher <seb128@ubuntu.com>  Fri, 21 Nov 2014 15:19:10 +0100
<elfy> I've got draft .2 started on x.org - running off for a bit to do some things before the day runs away 
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks for ^^ 
<bluesabre> going through http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty-updates/allpackages to see if there is anything else since .1
<ochosi> elfy: ok, smoketest completed, looks fine to me!
<bluesabre> xfce4-weather-plugin (0.8.3-1ubuntu0.1) trusty; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * Add patches from upstream git to use locationforcast-1.2 (LP: #1377612)
<bluesabre>  -- Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com>  Sat, 11 Oct 2014 16:12:57 -0400
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1377612 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] Plugin needs updated for locationforecast-1.2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1377612
<bluesabre> the usual firefox, thunderbird updates
<elfy> ochosi: ta - I assume that's an ack to mark ready :)
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> xchat (did we ship that for trusty?), pidgin both have had security updates (POODLE, etc)
<bluesabre> that seems to be it
<elfy> ok thanks :) 
<ochosi> brb
<elfy> biab
<bluesabre> byob
<knome> ochosi, mhm, it's better than utopic...
<knome> now for some stretching and then preparing the website push...
<knome> FINALLY
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> :D :D
<bluesabre> :D :D :D
<knome> ochosi, one question
<knome> ochosi, in the screenshots page, do you prefer the current order, or would you like to see the page content before the screenshots?
<bluesabre> Unit193: how long does it take for germinate to recognize a new package?
<bluesabre> ? Unknown desktop package: lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> ttyl
<knome> ochosi, did you see my question?
<ochosi> knome: sorry, was distracted with other stuff
<ochosi> do you have some links for me? (current vs proposed)
<knome> no, i only have the current style
<knome> and it's on the staging site :P
<knome> which i apparently just broke
<ochosi> just wanted to say, i don't see anything there :D
<elfy> best version ever 
<knome> yes
<elfy> 94 tests reported for trusty .2 :)
<knome> nice
<ochosi> awesome
<Unit193> bluesabre: Has to get out of -proposed.
<slickymasterWork> elfy, can you try to reproduce and confirm bug 1423602
<ubottu> bug 1423602 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "mousepad crashed with signal 5 in main()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423602
<ochosi> apart from theming issues, this works surprisingly well... http://www.webupd8.org/2015/02/use-global-menu-in-xubuntu-or-linux.html
<ochosi> (i know sean already linked it in -ot)
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-website/xubuntu-website/theme/revision/57
<elfy> slickymasterWork: is pkexec even in trusty? 
<elfy> was it not brought in during utopic?
<slickymasterWork> yes, it was 
<slickymasterWork> damn
<slickymasterWork> I have way to many virtual boxes
<elfy> :D
<knome> elfy, did you see the latest header bg?
<elfy> try it here I've got a bunch of those open and I'm trying to work kvm out too 
 * slickymasterWork as to clean up is virtual environment 
<knome> elfy, ^ it's pushed now so no complaints, but for the laughs :P
<elfy> knome: not sure what I should be seeing here :)
<knome> elfy, make sure you double refresh
<knome> elfy, once you're done, you should see blueish blues
<knome> elfy, instead of cyanish blues
<elfy> in staging?
<knome> elfy, and some lines instead of blurred spots
<knome> yapp
<Unit193> So 4 new po files, lost fr and picked up de.
<Akusari> hello! I hope the release day was or is still successful :-)
<elfy> knome: I see a slightly darker triangle at right top
<knome> elfy, yes, that must be it ;)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> Akusari: on going ... 
<knome> are you sure it's a triangular triangle?
<knome> ...
<elfy> well it's got three angles ... 
<knome> what if the rest are hiding?
<elfy> then they're doing an awesome job :D
<knome> they actually are ;)
<knome> yep
<Unit193> Hm.  We'll actually need to poke the wallpaper before release because of UIF.
<knome> yes.. how so? :)
<elfy> right - going to try and crack out the basic release note so that someone else can make it pretty and friendly 
<slickymasterWork> knome, the finnish strings that presently are having issues with the whitespaces within tags -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10310226
<knome> because <placeholder-1/> ?
<elfy> ochosi knome : draft release notes at x.org now should be ok - obviously not got download links yet
<ochosi> elfy: awesome! thanks a lot for taking care of that
<slickymasterWork> can't say exactly why knome. There's also issues with ? </guilabel>
<slickymasterWork> ? </guimenuitem>
<knome> why would there be?
<elfy> ochosi: welcome ofc
<knome> that's completely normal
<slickymasterWork> duno
<knome> well get your act togerther before you tell me my strings are broken ;)
<qwebirc645608> knome, why do we have those extra spaces in between tags in the first place?
<knome> which tags?
<qwebirc645608> is it something forced by DocBook markup?
<knome> the space between the placeholders and the text after that is intentional
<qwebirc645608> this for example ->  <filename><placeholder-1/> /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/</filename>
<qwebirc645608> can you explaine me the reason?
<knome> it makes the space between the icon (placeholder) and the text part sane
<qwebirc645608> -e 
<knome> we could do that even without that space in the markup, but now that it is like it is...
<knome> one whitespace is meaningful
<qwebirc645608> hmmm, ok
<knome> as long as it's outside tags
<slickymasterWork> es.po presently has 7 strings with invalid markup -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10310596/
<slickymasterWork> fr.po presently has 1 string with invalid markup -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10310613/
<slickymasterWork> knome: ^^
<slickymasterWork> I think of downloading those two correct the markup and upload them back
<slickymasterWork> any argues with that?
<slickymasterWork> s/I/I'm
<elfy> ochosi: we going to do wiki release notes? there should be the common bugs list available for that
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> why not
<elfy> I'll see if there's a .1 to base off
<ochosi> cool cool
<Unit193> Right, so merge "needs information"...
<Unit193> I'm having an elfy moment.
<ochosi> you could discuss it with bdmurray directly on irc as well
 * ochosi wasn't aware that "having an elfy moment" was a thing
<elfy> lol
<elfy> ochosi: re wiki release note - seems we just linked to the main 14.04 one
<Unit193> It's not, I'm just bad.
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so an elfy moment is being bad :(
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> poor elfy
 * ochosi pats elfy on the head
<ochosi> elfy: i'm fine with doing that again...
<ochosi> (and now that you mention it i remember)
<elfy> though ... i'm going to try running something for infinity which drags common bugs and fixes - so it may be worth doing a .2 page
<elfy> .1 was really the first release 
<knome> everybody interested, RT ticket 26131 for the website process
<knome> ochosi, pleia2: you're CC'd on the website push ticket
<ochosi> elfy: ok, that's totally fine as well
<elfy> knome: thanks - I'll add it to my list of 100 rt tickets :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: You may have to poke someone about https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings to get it to migrate so you can update -meta before the end of the day.
<andrzejr> Is there any way to push unity guys to release their stuff? I wanted to use a "libido" library but the latest released version is 12.10: https://launchpad.net/ido/12.10/12.10.2
<andrzejr> there were quite a few unreleased versions since
<knome> andrzejr, if there is, it's not whining in this channel ;)
<andrzejr> Is this intentional? I mean, are they trying to make this framework Ubuntu only?
<knome> no idea, you really should talk with them
<andrzejr> It is not whining - I'm seriously considering using this lib but I need to know what is their development plan
<Unit193> Honestly, it does kind of seem like they only want that stuff in house. :P
<knome> you won't find unity developers here though, so what's the agenda?
<elfy> got some r/l for a while - draft notes on x.org and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr.2/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu drafted
<Unit193> andrzejr: They all hang out in #ubuntu-desktop.
<andrzejr> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> andrzejr: Good luck, you're going to need it.
<elfy> and there's not an Ubuntu general known issue page, but there is a change summary for .2 if we want to <<include>> that 
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/14.04.2
<jjfrv8> elfy, looks like both 32 and 64-bit versions of today's vivid daily have the missing try/install problem.
<jjfrv8> in vbox, that is
<elfy> ok thanks, not had time to even think about those today :)
<elfy> going to set up kvm - seems that we'd get more traction if can reproduce in there 
<elfy> tomorrow's task ;)
<Unit193> qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -boot d -m 2048 -cdrom 'openbox-desktop-14.04-amd64.iso' -localtime
<elfy> Unit193: I managed to get it half set up - then it kept whining about disk space - I want it to use space on other drives 
<elfy> be tomorrow - got r/l walking up the road now :)
<slickymaster> knome, Unit193 http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/19/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t16:59
<slickymaster> just so you know
<knome> no complaints
<slickymaster> ack knome 
<Unit193> Okay..
<ochosi> andrzejr: i think tedg and larsu (re: libido and libindicator) are in a european timezone, but if you want i can ping them tomorrow about this
<andrzejr> ochosi, thanks, that would be helpful. I've sent an email to charles and asked the question on #ubuntu-desktop. Since the license of ido is compatible (lgpl 2) it may be possible to simply distribute a couple of files with the plugin.
<ochosi> sure, no problem!
<ochosi> andrzejr: btw, if you and eric (and maybe even matias) really plan to work on the pulseaudio plugin, i can sit down and draw some serious mockups
<andrzejr> is eric interested? I haven't heard from him about it.
<Unit193> Check users ml.
<ochosi> yeah, he and matias both replied there
<ochosi> and in fact it's true that the xfpm plugin uses a similar layout
<ochosi> so it shouldn't be too hard to port that over
<ochosi> then again, i still think it'd be ideal to start doing that in gtk3
<ochosi> so that the xfpm plugin can benefit too
<andrzejr> yup, xfpm menu is a good start.
<jjfrv8> ochosi, having a little trouble getting things to look right in latest vivid version: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/xfwm.php
<jjfrv8> I've got all these settings: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds-xfdesktop
<jjfrv8> has something changed with the recent packages?
<ochosi> yeah, that looks ok
<slickymaster> yeah, but jjfrv8 is right, that's completely different from what we always use
<ochosi> the window border theme has
<ochosi> i don't think other things should have
<jjfrv8> so you're saying go with it like shown?
<ochosi> i'd say so, but lemme quickly check in #xfce-dev
<ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, suggestion: we start out without the screenshots and i'll come up with a strategy tomorrow
<jjfrv8> wfm
<ochosi> it's possible we'll go for something completely different
<ochosi> e.g. adwaita or greybird
<ochosi> nobody really uses the xfce themes anyway...
<ochosi> so the "reference factor" seems low
<jjfrv8> ok
<Unit193> bluesabre: Weren't you going to commit something to the seed before EOD today?
<bluesabre> Unit193: just got home
<Unit193> Good for youuuuu./
<Unit193> Did you have a nice drive? :D
<bluesabre> nice carpool
<bluesabre> freaking cold though
<Unit193> Temp: 2 F (-17 C) ~ Partly Cloudy ~ Windchill: -12 F (-24 C) ~ Humidity: 63% ~ Alert: Wind Chill Advisory, Wind Chill Warning
<Unit193> Yeeeeep.
<Unit193> Hah, infinity's comments on -release. :D
<knome> wat?
<bluesabre> <infinity> bluesabre: I'm mildly entertained that the only translation that contains is Russian. :)
<knome> what then?
<knome> cia-handbook?
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> which is an alternate to cia-handbook
<bluesabre> provide the same binaries
<ochosi> haha
<knome> point me to the translation interfaceeeh
<knome> i'll tap it in today, so infinity can be more entertained 
<bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
<knome> tat-tara
<ochosi> knome: you mean infinity lulz?
<knome> ochosi, DA
<bluesabre> saw the awesome news that translations should no longer timeout all the time
<ochosi> hah, for realz?
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2015-February/006773.html
<elfy> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<elfy> and the rest too of course :)
<bluesabre> getting to relax a bit now?
<elfy> kind of 
<elfy> bluesabre: doing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/14.04.2 wasn't particularly relaxing given that the script to get info from launchpad did what you'd expect 
<elfy> timeout a lot ... 
<slickymaster> yeah bluesabre, for those translating in LP, with Rosetta, those constant time-outs are/were a real pain in the neck
<bluesabre> lp = "later please"
<ochosi> lol
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> nice one
<ochosi> i'll remember that
<knome> hmm, i could come up with other acronyms
<knome> but i'll keep them to myself
<knome> :P
<elfy> ok - so now that we've got links has anyone done the release notes? and posted it? 
<knome> no
 * knome hides
<elfy> can someone check over http://xubuntu.org/?p=2951&preview=true then please :)
<elfy> or http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=2951&action=edit
 * knome checks and at the same time, hopes the new theme would be up already
<knome> looks good to me
 * knome remembers the download links should be updated
<knome> elfy, tell me when you've posted and i'll hit the update button on the download page
<bluesabre> looks good to me as well
<elfy> bluesabre: has lock - can post it :)
<bluesabre> crud
<ochosi> looks good to me too
 * bluesabre lets go of lock
<ochosi> even trustier tahr
<elfy> bluesabre: GO !!!
<knome> thrustier :P
<elfy> then tell knome :)
 * bluesabre cannot publish
<bluesabre> only submit for review
<knome> bwaha
<elfy> published then
<knome> updated
<elfy> knome: I published it :p
<knome> too late
<knome> :(
<elfy> bah
<elfy> blame slickymaster 
<bluesabre> #undo
<slickymaster> wtf elfy !?!
<elfy> hi slickymaster :D
<knome> slickymaster, tut tut, watch the language
<slickymaster> it's in your mind only knome :P
<slickymaster> Ã±ot in mine's
<slickymaster> WhatTheFunk
<knome> slickymaster, seÃ±or coconut is steady now.
<slickymaster> lol
<elfy> oh buggar
 * bluesabre keeps hitting update until "? Unknown desktop package: lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings" goes away
<knome> :D 
<elfy> fiddled about with some wiki and x.org info so it's current 
<knome> for all you good people who worked on 14.04.2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kJJXqihboE
<bluesabre> better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF5C04CB-VQ
<knome> bluesabre, you are trolling me :(
<slickymaster> lmao bluesabre 
<bluesabre> knome: surely not
<Unit193> Eh, I'd look into updating thunar, but so many LP bugs. :3
<bluesabre> >.<
<Unit193> No really, '40 new', and this seems to be a bugfix release. :/
<bluesabre> yeesh
<elfy> oh noes :(
<elfy> indicator-sound update :|
<Unit193> Oh gee.
<bluesabre> hiiiiiide
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> and it's broken it ... 
<elfy> pavucontrol won't start from there
<Unit193> Really? >_<
<elfy> yep
<Unit193> So, might be time to check out xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin afterall...
<elfy> so how can I mark bug 1423752 as a regression?
<ubottu> bug 1423752 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Sound Settings not opening from indicator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423752
<ochosi> hmpf
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> i'll check tomorrow and fix it then i guess :/
<elfy> how can it be you? 
<ochosi> what?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#line-152
<elfy> lol - talking about different things I hope then ochosi :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: look good? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/xubuntu-meta/vivid/revision/217
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/198208378/indicator-sound_12.10.2%2B15.04.20150205-0ubuntu1_12.10.2%2B15.04.20150219.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<elfy> knome: thanks :)
<ochosi> elfy: didn't you say the most recent update for indicator-sound broke the pavucotnrol link?
<elfy> ochosi: yes - but I blame Ubuntu for that :)
<Unit193> krytarik: Look, should be happy now. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Aye!
<knome> deja vu...
<ochosi> elfy: me too, but as i said, i'll look into tomorrow
<ochosi> can't be too hard to fix that part
<knome> ochosi, famous last words...
<ochosi> hehe
<elfy> tagged it 
<ochosi> elfy: add it to v-bugs too please
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, thanks for removing that file.
<bluesabre> Unit193: noticed it was still lingering around :)
<Unit193> Seed looks good too.
<krytarik> Unit193, bluesabre: light-locker is still in desktop recommends now. though.
<Unit193> krytarik: As it should be.
<ochosi> nice, it's FF and the features blueprint is almost complete
<Unit193> krytarik: Just the double xubuntu-core isn't.
<ochosi> great work folks!
<elfy> :)
<krytarik> Unit193: Wasn't it planned to *move* it to -core, rather than just *add* it? The last paste also indicated otherwise.
<Unit193> krytarik: At this point, you can't "move" anything to the core, since desktop is a layer atop of it.  Also note that this is the meta refresh, not the seed commit.
<krytarik> The seeds are fine though indeed.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-20
<knome> bluesabre, "Misc." is a crappy tab name fyi
<elfy> knome btw - that final planet merge got done - so all finished now 
<knome> \o/
<elfy> telling me ... 
<elfy> I read all but 400 lines of that ;)
<knome> hehe
<knome> congrats
<knome> i hope it was a good reading....
<elfy> awesome
<elfy> but I'd only do it the once - no need to revisit :)
<bluesabre> knome: not a project I created :)
<knome> bluesabre, still..
<ochosi> elfy: just installed the latest update for indicator-sound, pavucontrol still opens...
<ochosi> with 12.10.2+15.04.20150219.1-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> knome: but yeah, didn't have enough time to tweak the interface
<bluesabre> seeing as how we landed it mere hours before FF
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> ;)
<elfy> ochosi: oh 
<elfy> really going to have to do that clean install ... 
<ochosi> did you accidentally uninstall pavucontrol maybe? :)
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> apart from anything it opened before I updated :)
<knome> bluesabre, define "User's" in multihead setup?
<ochosi> Misc. is mostly a11y
 * bluesabre shrugs
 * ochosi has no clue either
<ochosi> gotta love that
<knome> "user is"?
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> Accepting string patches through the weekend for 1.1.1
<ochosi> elfy: so what version do you have?
<elfy> change front page of x.org to point to trusty.2 ?
<elfy> ochosi: 12.10.2+15.04.20150219.1-0ubuntu1
<elfy> same :(
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> so maybe do that clean install and then let's revisit this thing
<elfy> knome: so shall I change front page ?
<elfy> points at .1 currently
<knome> elfy, sure
<elfy> umm 
<elfy> broken it :(
<elfy> sorry 
<knome> i KNEW it!
<ochosi> lol, what's broken now?
<knome> ochosi, our website frontpage
<ochosi> elfy: so first you break indicator-sound and now this??!
<ochosi> :D
<elfy> ok - so why if I restore previous it's still :|
<knome> elfy, release the lock, i'll fix it
<elfy> should be released
<knome> yep
<elfy> then I would love to know how it broke :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: quick question, is the latest greybird already uploaded?
<knome> elfy, done
<knome> elfy, the last "why" --> caching
<elfy> ochosi: re clean install - yea - I'll do that tomorrow am 
<ochosi> elfy: just be a scientist and try again!
<knome> elfy, the previous... you probably just closed a tag you shouldn't have
<elfy> ochosi: the last time I was a scientist I spent 3 months analysing dirt for my dissertation - unsurprisingly - never again :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm referring to the one with the sassy code-name...
<ochosi> elfy: wow, that was a super-fast dissertation!
<elfy> knome: I assumed so - but then it all just went blank in my head :D
 * ochosi wonders why it takes him so long...
<knome> i'm sure elfy just acknowledged it was all just some crap
<knome> see what i did there?
<knome> :)
<elfy> ochosi: I wish - that was just the bit in the lab and was just BSc too 
<elfy> knome: :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> another workitem done then
<bluesabre> !info shimmer-themes vivid
<bluesabre> or something like that
<ubottu> shimmer-themes (source: shimmer-themes): Gtk+ themes from Shimmer Project. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.9.4-0ubuntu1 (vivid), package size 2 kB, installed size 31 kB
<ochosi> yeah, but that version doesn't tell me anything
<ochosi> it doesn't reflect greybird's
<bluesabre> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/s/shimmer-themes/shimmer-themes_1.9.4-0ubuntu1/changelog
<ochosi> reading changelogs is booooring
<bluesabre> x.x
<Unit193> It is?
<elfy> hi PaulW2U - thanks for testing what you did :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do we want thunar .5?
<bluesabre> Unit193: bugfixes are good I think
<knome> bluesabre, ok, finnish done for lggs
<Unit193> NEWS indicates that's all it is.
<bluesabre> ideally an easy package then
<bluesabre> you want it?
<knome> something else that needs translations?
<Unit193> Except, don't we have to list all LP bugs? :P
<Unit193> knome: My script! :P
 * Unit193 hides.
<knome> Unit193, .po?
<knome> Unit193, or .pot, or rosetta/transifex link
<bluesabre> Unit193: I usually look around a little bit for obvious ones, then forget to include them
<knome> bluesabre, any idea on translating ThisEntry for menulibre?
<Unit193> knome: Heh, honestly I was going to wait until I added 'forecasts' before pinging, but it's on transifex yes.  I'll get the link.
<bluesabre> knome: I had wanted to drop it, but menulibre development didn't make it this time around
<knome> bluesabre, ok, i'll keep it untranslated
<knome> it will just confuse users more if it's translated
<knome> there isn't really a good translation for "Entry" as is, needs context
<bluesabre> fun
<Unit193> * New upstream development bugfix release.   a-ok? :P
<bluesabre> bravo
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development
<knome> should we and lggs there?
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> used by and essential for xubuntu?
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> well, not essential, but now in the seed
<bluesabre> ;)
<knome> done
<Unit193> Essential == core?
 * Unit193 hides.
 * knome shrugs
 * bluesabre sits
 * ochosi yawns
 * elfy belches
 * ochosi sneaks off to bed
 * knome trips ochosi
 * ochosi activates his spider-senses and doesn't fall!
<knome> so will you float all night?
<knome> like a div?
<knome> <:
 * ochosi cuddles up in a web where he can't hear knome's lame webdev jokes
<elfy> night ochosi :)
<knome> web... webdev... i see what you did there
<bluesabre> more like
<bluesabre> webdiv
<bluesabre> <.<
<bluesabre> >,>
<Unit193> bluesabre: We still using mkdir -p m4 as the "canonical" fix to that problem?
<knome> bluesabre, neither of those were valid tags...
<elfy> picky
<bluesabre> <div class="sean" style="display:none"> :-P </div>
<knome> heh
<knome> .sean { display: block !important; }
<bluesabre> jerk
<elfy> chicken
<knome> beef
<bluesabre> bok bok
<knome> bluesabre, more seriously... do you think you would be up for creating a simple gui for sgt-puzzles, to avoid the huge list of items in the menu
<knome> the gui would practically work as a launcher
<elfy> after people have had a chance to decide if we even want that 
<elfy> :p
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, I could probably do that at some point
<knome> well, whether we want that or not...
<knome> great :)
<elfy> I actually think it would be a good choice seriously
<knome> yep
<knome> i have my favorites there too
<elfy> lol
<knome> and they would be easy enough to highlight on the installer slideshow
<knome> even one per cycle...
<elfy> going to be a long slideshow with one for the poll too :)
<knome> we'll probably drop a few slides from the current ones, so...
<elfy> talking of which - do you want to set some time aside for us to look at that? 
<knome> probably should set up a 3-way with slickymaster 
<knome> ;)
<elfy> frankly I think that anything with a menu option should be polled
<elfy> yea - probably would be best, do the whole kit and kaboodle in one shot 
<knome> a bit radical to my taste, but i see the point :D
<elfy> heh
<knome> but, let's wait until we are all around
<knome> that seems to happen much lately
<knome> we can even do an impromptu sprint
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> true enough
<knome> and as always, i have nothing against if you and slimy decide to work on something
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, I think so
<elfy> lol - so I thought the release shout had gone out - apparently no 
<knome> just let me know what kind of technical stuff you need :)
<elfy> knome: yep
<knome> elfy, oops.
<knome> do we want to revert stuff?
<elfy> no
<Unit193> bluesabre: lp 1423407 is marked invalid, did you fully update and gather more info? :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1423407 in quassel (Ubuntu) "quasselclient crashed with SIGSEGV on hyperlink hover" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423407
<knome> elfy, oki, good :)
<elfy> knome: we just normally wait for -release to release 
<elfy> bit early this time :)
<knome> talk about impatience ;))
<elfy> I know - some people :p
<knome> true that
<bluesabre> Unit193: awww
<bluesabre> I'll update and crash it again
<bluesabre> Unit193: did you say thunar was ready?
<bluesabre> http://unit193.net/source/ ?
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://sigma.
<Unit193> With lintian and buildlog.
<bluesabre> Unit193: too many servers :P
<Unit193> Just two...
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> *two* many servers
<Unit193> Paha.
<bluesabre> :P
<Unit193> Careful, you complain too much and I'll start uploading them on Loki and Ninthfloor too. :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> step 1. ssh tunnel into this random server
<bluesabre> :P
<nerdistmonk> Did something change since a day ago? Can't run scripts from thunar now.
<Unit193> Thunar 1.6.5 was just uploaded.
<nerdistmonk> All i know is i can't run .sh scripts now except through terminal
<ochosi> nerdistmonk: yes
<ochosi> that's an intentional change
<nerdistmonk> great so all my desktop shortcuts are worthless then?
<ochosi> if they're bash-scripts, then yes
<nerdistmonk> wow.
<ochosi> this is the corresponding bugreport in case you're interested to read it: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7596
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 7596 in general "add a way to *open* shell scripts instead of executing them" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ochosi> and then there's the longer version of that https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9934
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9934 in general "Interoperability problems with executable desktop files" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> 'desktop shortcuts', sounds like you're doing things quite oddly.
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> (hint: that's what .desktop files are for?)
<nerdistmonk> How is it odd? i need xrandr to be called so it can change the resolution before executing the program, then i need it to change it back when done....my sh scripts were handling this nicely.
<Unit193> 'by default' also sounds like you can change it.
<nerdistmonk> I don't see anyways to change it back
<ochosi> yeah, but if you don't use a kb-shortcut to bind your script to, why not use a desktop file then?
<nerdistmonk> because i got 1,200 programs and only 104 keys, why would i do that when i had something that worked fine for over 10 years?
<ochosi> you've been doing this for over 10 years?
<ochosi> also, your question indicates you haven't read the bugreports
<nerdistmonk> making a desktop launcher to a .sh script? sure
<nerdistmonk> these scripts do not need to be seen verbosely, so theres no reason not to.
<ochosi> err, what? whatever.
<nerdistmonk> so this is localized to thunar i take it?
<nerdistmonk> ill just rip it out and go to something else then i guess.
<nerdistmonk> i can understand why this change was made, but why remove user choice once again?
<nerdistmonk> why not give me an option to keep the old behavior?
<ochosi> erhm, once again?
<ochosi> look, there are very easy workarounds, you can create desktop files that do *exactly* what your scripts did (if it's a single call, you can place it in the desktop file directly, if it's more, call the script). this is to protect users who don't know what they're doing
<ochosi> shell scripts don't provide any visual feedback and imo they shouldn't be used as "launchers"
<ochosi> since you seemingly *know* what you're doing, you can easily use the workaround indicated above without any trouble
<ochosi> options should only be added where they make sense, otherwise we end up with too many of them
<ochosi> </discussion>
<nerdistmonk> it appears my desktop icons still work, im just going to take thunar out and go to pcmanfm
<nerdistmonk> anyways as you said /discussion so i will move on
<Unit193> nerdistmonk: If you plan to still use xfdesktop4, you should call pcmanfm with --no-desktop, if you plan to use pcmanfm as the desktop, you can still use thunar just not xfdesktop.
<nerdistmonk> i was going to use it as my default file manager and uninstall thunar completely
<Unit193> pcmanfm == xfdesktop4 and thunar by default.
<nerdistmonk> hmmm seems like its gonna be best to simply go to lxde
 * Unit193 rolls eyes.
<ochosi> yeah, maybe that's best
<nerdistmonk> you can roll your eyes unit but pcmanfm needs lx libraries, if im gonna have a chunk of lxde running may as well just use it all.
<nerdistmonk> especially since lxde is going to QT whereas xfce is going gtk3
<nerdistmonk> that would be an interesting medley
<nerdistmonk> only thing that makes me sad is not having my Mac OS 9 platinum theme that xfce comes with.
<Unit193> Right then, I suppose we are done here.  Have fun.
<nerdistmonk> well thanks for at least letting me know that thunar wasn't bugging out on me.
<ochosi> np
<nerdistmonk> now to quietly wait and see if they catch/fix the nvidia window border bug
<nerdistmonk> (its baaaccckkk)
<nerdistmonk> minimize a window then bring it back up and the window border is gone on the sides/bottom, old bug from like 3 years ago, seems to have come back for reasons unknown.
<nerdistmonk> Haha
<nerdistmonk> hows that for effort
<nerdistmonk> fixed my thunar problem
<nerdistmonk> simply selected "open with other application", then typed in a custom command "sh"
<nerdistmonk> so now it opens all .sh files with sh.
<nerdistmonk> thanks for your time guys, sorry for pestering you all.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Meh, too late for a new mousepad?  FFe it? :P
<brainvvash> elfy, indicator-sound > sound settings still open pavucontrol here
<brainvvash> got a newer version: 12.10.2+15.04.20150219.1-0ubuntu1
<brainvvash> oh nvm, you have the same version installed
<Akusari> good morning :-)
<elfy> ochosi: clean install - ind-sound working again
<elfy> we can put man on the moon, but not have numlock believe me when I say I want it on at the login screen
<ochosi> elfy: always good when a bug actually isnt one
<elfy> yep
<elfy> though I'm still hating on pavu atm :D
<elfy> last week I could set a master vol in output devices, then vol control increased/decreased playback vol
<elfy> today - both levels change 
<brainvvash> could be pulseaudio which has been updated from v4 to v6
<elfy> does it come from gnome - removing options would be par for the course ... :)
<ochosi> pavucontrol has been rather unmaintained for a while now
<ochosi> luckily it's still working, cause there really isn't any DE-agnostic alternative afaik
<elfy> yea
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I guess wanting to control volumes 3 ways is probably a bit over the top anyway :D
<ochosi> at some point i considered forking pavucontrol and improving it
<ochosi> but it would've been quite a bit of work
<elfy> did you consider it for very long :)
<ochosi> too many projects already
<elfy> :)
<brainvvash> why not contribute directly to pavucontrol?
<ochosi> because there are no active maintainers afaik
<ochosi> anyway, no need to discuss this, i'm not doing it anyway
<brainvvash> they seems to accept patches https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88813
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 88813 in pavucontrol "pavucontrol crashes on startup, if icon loading fails" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainvvash> oh, I meant he accepts patches, the ubuntu audio dev and one of the pulseaudio maintainers
<brainvvash> ochosi, lazy loading prevents tab switching in the appearance window
<ochosi> in what case?
<ochosi> i mean i can't reproduce that
<brainvvash> until it's done loading everything I mean
<brainvvash> requirement: slow pc
<ochosi> right, i guess that sounds like it's a bit against the intention of lazy loading
<ochosi> is any interaction blocked? even with the currently open tab?
<ochosi> or only tab switches
<brainvvash> only tab switching and theme selection, but only for like 2 seconds, longer on first launch
<brainvvash> I don't know if lazy loading could allow these interactions
<brainvvash> or maybe something else is wrong here
<ochosi> hm, i dunno, maybe tab-switching's interaction is a bit different from just pushing some other button
<brainvvash> not worth caring about this, it's just a small delay :)
<brainvvash> it's not like the user opens the appearance window on a daily base
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> my thoughts exactly
<ochosi> at least there is no stalling with showing the dialog
<brainvvash> wasn't "session and startup" always embedded into the settings manager?
<ochosi> it used to be, it isn't anymore?
<ochosi> still is here
<brainvvash> not here
<ochosi> did you compile it yourself?
<brainvvash> also keyboard and mouse settings are not anymore
<brainvvash> ok... woot
<brainvvash> I triggered some bug
<ochosi> maybe you built something yourself without pluggable support
<brainvvash> none of dialogs are embedded
<ochosi> sounds like xfce4-settings without plug support
<brainvvash> nope, open lightdm gtk greeter settings and close the password dialog without providing a password
<brainvvash> to trigger the bug
<brainvvash> minor bug though
<ochosi> right, pkexec thingy probably
<ochosi> not sure xfsettings can do anything about that
<ochosi> yeah, closing and reopening fixes the embedding
<brainvvash> yes :)
<ochosi> brainvvash: want to lend a hand?
<brainvvash> ochosi, with testing?
<ochosi> well, sorting out this mess of a bugreport would really help... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-volumed/+bug/1347272
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged]
<ochosi> checking which apps are really still affected etc
<brainvvash> how can it be tested? I could check code-wise
<ochosi> i'd say start codewise
<ochosi> i'm also a bit lost as to how it could be tested
<ochosi> thing is, i'm working on another bug/patch atm
<ochosi> but i'd like us to tackle this one asap
<ochosi> (ideally we can just close it)
<Akusari> hmm, this should be a task for xfce devs and nobody else
<elfy> Akusari: you know that bunches of people in this channel actually are that?
<bluesabre> Open source community gives and gives back
<elfy> hey bluesabre !!!
<bluesabre> heya elfy
<bluesabre> and what elfy said
<ochosi> Akusari: this is a ubuntu-specific bug
<bluesabre> and what ochosi said
<bluesabre> probably moreso that
<Akusari> sure, i know that, but i'm a experince dev in gnu projects and other open source projects. So i thing *personal* thats a "design concept" bug and no real app bug
<Akusari> i think
<ochosi> feel free to help us resolve the bugreport
<ochosi> tbh i don't see any real bugs/problems with these apps, so foremostly i wanna get this bugreport sorted
<Akusari> and design concept things should only be done by original developers
<Akusari> i agree with ochosi in this case :)
<Akusari> don't understand me wrong, it just my _personal_ private view of course
<ochosi> no worries
<Akusari> Well, forks or threads models have a deep impact of the whole app or project. Just for example if you plan to change this part to a thread pool manage base there are a lot of depencies. I don't looked at the code, so this is only theoretical thought.
<ochosi> practical thought: lunchtime
<ochosi> bbl
<Akusari> hehe :)
<Akusari> bluesabre: Yes, you're right of course :-) And thats how it works :-)
<jjfrv8> elfy, looks like we're back to just the 32-bit version having the missing try/install problem today.
<elfy> jjfrv8: mmm - I did have a quick word re vbox - not awfully useful
<elfy> was a bit mmm vbox - so does it work in kvm - vbox is rubbish ... 
<jjfrv8> bummer
<elfy> a bit
<elfy> kvm doesn't give the try/install at all - just sits at the start menu waiting for you to hit try or install :)
<jjfrv8> hmm
<Akusari> hello, i looked a little bit deeper into this case: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-volumed/+bug/1347272
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged]
<Akusari> that's a real mess, i'm just inspecting an example module unity-gtk-module-0.0.0+14.04.20141212 . It looks really ugly what they doing there. I need more time and continue later on
<elfy> sorted numlock \o/ just put in back where I put it originally, must have ended up commented out amongst all the stuff going on last week
<elfy> that said - shouldn't have to edit system files to make it work 
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> so no bug there again?
<elfy> well 
<elfy> you could call it a bug 
<elfy> bios says numlock on, desktop says numlock on, lightdm says don't be silly 
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well then don't be silly!
<elfy> got mediaserver thing working properly now too :) went for a different one - easy as eating cake ... 
<ochosi> yay
<elfy> http://www.universalmediaserver.com/ instead of mediatomb
<ochosi> how is it better (other than working)?
<ochosi> and is it packaged?
<elfy> for one thing - changed one option, rather than mucking about with enabling things in a conf file
<elfy> java ... 
<Akusari> hi :-) I'm out of  the "Several XFCE applications..." bug. It's not my part to say something about canonical work with unity gtk modules. It is as it is :-)  I have just one suggestion: Keep xubuntu unity free (packages based) :-)
<elfy> going to try and get some headway on this virtual install issue with 32bit 
<Akusari> i'm sorry, i'm not easy , eh? ;-)
<elfy> wut?
<Akusari> well, i'm also writing what i'm thinking and sometimes it would be better doing a long think and not writing down everything comes in my mind :-)
<elfy> ;)
<elfy> you'd really not want me doing that in a logged channel 
<Akusari> lol - right :-P
<elfy> ochosi: couple of nice chaps having a look at this 32bit vb thing - cyphermox and infinity 
<ochosi> cool
<elfy> seems to be hidden somehow 
<elfy> if you boot it then up or down arrow to change language - it shows up 
<ochosi> weird
<elfy> jjfrv8: not sure if you read scrollback when you're not pinged, but re 32bit image you can work it to try the rest of what's in the image
<elfy> when you've got the empty screen up or down, changes the language and the dialogue appears 
<knome> elfy, do you have final numbers on beta testing activity per person?
<knome> elfy, see where i'm getting?
<elfy> knome: not really seeing where you getting at all tbh, if I could give you those figures - I will also be winning the lottery tonight and tomorrow, possibly some results on football bets too :p
<elfy> if however you mean the trusty thing from yesterday yea - I got those :D
<knome> oh right, we didn't do qa incentive for 14.04.2...
<elfy> no
 * knome gets back to cave
<knome> bbiab
<elfy> but those numbers will be in February's :)
<elfy> tbh I didn't give trusty .2 a thought until 2 weeks ago ... 
<elfy> knome: actually - if you've got a minute or 3 
<elfy> ochosi knome - re QA incentive - I've got sorted figures locally, but if I don't wake up in the morning someone has to redo all of that
<elfy> what I was pondering was making a google sheet - sharing the link to team, but making it editable only by ochosi and me
<elfy> rather - those in team that have an interest
<elfy> and aren't going to be telling me it's not up to date :p
<knome> elfy, mm... works for me
<ochosi> elfy: hmm, only if you promise to wake up in the morning!
<elfy> ha :)
<elfy> ochosi: do you have a gmail ?
<ochosi> i do
<elfy> knome: same
<ochosi> firstname.surname@gmail.com
<elfy> okey doke - as long as I can do that with an English keyboard :p
<ochosi> hah yeah, it's â¬â¬â¬.â¬â¬â¬@gmail.com
<ochosi> oh wait, you don't have that on your keyboard...
<elfy> LOL
<knome> elfy, pasi@shimmerproject.org
<elfy> ochosi: yea I do have â¬ 
<knome> elfy, do you have an Å?
<elfy> but that's just so last year ... or will be 
<elfy> knome: no
<elfy> :D
<knome> ;)
<knome> do you have those elliptical circles then?
<elfy> squares?
<elfy> yep 
<ochosi> heh
<Unit193> á£ á£ á£   á§ * * * * * *
<ochosi> wat, cookies?
<knome> i see missing unicode characters :)
<elfy> knome: sent to you
<knome> elfy, ta
<brainvvash> ochosi, wow, evince already patched and available in -proposed.. that was fast
<knome> elfy, view only ;(
<elfy> yep
<knome> works for me
<elfy>  but making it editable only by ochosi and me
<elfy> I did say that :)
<knome> yes
<elfy> just so people can see 
<elfy> if you really want more make up a reason :D
<knome> nah
<knome> i'm fine
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I just wanted that others could see it rather than just me
<knome> heh, yeah
<knome> good to share stuff
<elfy> and re the original proposal - ochosi needs to ack who gets the snail mail too - so only right he can edit 
<knome> and pleia2 needs to send stuff
<knome> and i need to prepare the certificates if we want them
<elfy> yep
<knome> or i can prepare it so that pleia2 might be able to do them on request
<knome> well, when needed at least :P
<elfy> what I'll do is mail [team] - them that would like to have the link can mail me back 
<elfy> well 
<elfy> given we're trying to push it - would be nice to think we all would be interested in 'what's going on' if nothing else :)
<brainvvash> ochosi, even in -release now, but does it actually work for you?
<elfy> knome: even gave it a bit of talking up in -meeting the other day
<brainvvash> ochosi, I maximized the evince window and there is no title bar
<elfy> lubuntu are handing out t-shirts ... 
<knome> heh
<elfy> brainvvash: I see that evince issue properly now - andf F11 doesn't undo full screen 'apparently' drag it and it goes back to previous size
<elfy> and awesomely cyphermox is assigned to the odd vbox thing :)
<elfy> ty cyphermox :)
<brainvvash> elfy, a new version was released to fix the evince issue, like an hour ago. did you already install 3.14.1-0ubuntu4?
<elfy> brainvvash: doubtful
<elfy> clean install - I've updated a bunch of times during the day - but not for a few hours now
<elfy> and the repos were a whole lot faster then too ... 
<elfy> brainvvash: what I see now is , F11 fullscreens and undoes that - but title bar missing still
<brainvvash> bug 1422354
<ubottu> bug 1422354 in Evince "Show traditional titlebar when maximized with no GtkHeaderBar present" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422354
<brainvvash> missing here too
<ochosi> +1
<Unit193> New xfdash and all, uplodaded.
<cyphermox> elfy: I think I have a fix, I'll upload shortly
<elfy> Unit193: I've kind of been playing with that - shame it doesn't timeout 
<elfy> cyphermox: awesome :)
<Unit193> elfy: As in, open it and after a certain time it'll close by itself?  https://github.com/gmc-holle/xfdashboard/issues ?
<jjfrv8> elfy, I've tried that vbox workaround but only got it to work once, and now can't reproduce it.
<elfy> yea as in that
<jjfrv8> is it moot now, though
<elfy> Unit193: ^^
<elfy> jjfrv8: we has hope :)
<Unit193> Aha.
<elfy> Unit193: but doesn't appear to be an issue atm - shall I do one 
<Unit193> Up to you, if you want it ask.  From what I've seen he's pretty receptive.
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> not sure that I'd use it enough in future to ask for something I might not see :)
<ochosi> brainvvash: no clue why the patch isn't working, the changelog indicates it has been applied
<ochosi> so does the package's diff
<brainvvash> yes, it's strange
<brainvvash> I've tested my patch 2 days ago, and it worked
<elfy> hard for me to tell - I've had all sorts of oddness for days :p
<elfy> brainvvash: I've now at least got a normalish install if you want someone to test anything re this 
<elfy> nice little disk space usage bar turned up in thunar :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-21
<elfy> slickymaster jjfrv8 - fix landed for that 32 vbox issue, hopefully we'll see that in tomorrow's daily
<jjfrv8> cool. might have time to give it a spin before I head out into the snow.
<Unit193> andrzejr: Your libpulseaudio_plugin_la_LIBADD seems to be missing -lm ?
<Unit193> evince (3.14.1-0ubuntu4) was uploaded, fixing LP: #1422354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1422354 in Evince "Show traditional titlebar when maximized with no GtkHeaderBar present" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422354
<brainvvash> Unit193, according to the last bug comment, it does not fix the issue
<Unit193> Hah, so it doesn't. :D
<brainvvash> I've only tested my patch, and it worked
<brainvvash> Unit193, can you find any packaging error?
<brainvvash> or maybe upload a version with my patch to some ppa
<ochosi> Unit193: andrzejr is away for the next two weeks, so...
<ochosi> and yeah, evince is still broken
<brainvvash> ochosi, did you test the patch?
<ochosi> brainvvash/brainwash: ofc, i've built the upstream 3.14.1 though
<ochosi> with that it does work
<ochosi> applied the other window-border patch that ubuntu is carrying and my patch
<ochosi> so not really sure why it wouldn't work in ubuntu
<ochosi> if you have time to test it with the ubuntu version, that'd be great
<brainvvash> with the ubuntu version? isn't that basically the new package release?
<ochosi> well, take the previous version, apply the patch by hand, rebuild the package and try that
<ochosi> then we'd know it's some sort of packaging problem
<brainvvash> ochosi, packaging problem, the patch was not added to debian/series
 * ochosi facepalms
<ochosi> ok, i guess we either report a new bug or reopen this one and assign it to Laney
<ochosi> i'll be away from tomorrow till thu, so the earliest i can follow up on this is friday
<brainvvash> new bug I guess
<ochosi> ideally just ping him in #u-desktop about it
<brainvvash> I was about to say that you should ping him (now)
<brainvvash> :D
<ochosi> well he's not around now
<ochosi> but i can do that when we have the new bugreport
<brainvvash> maybe someone else can fix it, well, every ubuntu dev should be able to
<ochosi> nah, let's just stick to Laney
<brainvvash> ok
<ochosi> he's a nice guy and quite helpful
<ochosi> also, he's the one who messed up ;)
<brainvvash> bug 1424180
<ubottu> bug 1424180 in evince (Ubuntu) "New patch in 3.14.1-0ubuntu4 not added to debian/patches/series" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1424180
<ochosi> ok, i consider that taken care of, sort of
<ochosi> in -0ubuntu5
<brainvvash> yep
<ochosi> brainvvash: i vaguely remember UBUNTU_MENUPROXY not being set anymore, any recollection of that?
<ochosi> (at least here in vivid it doesn't seem to be set anyway)
<ochosi> my conclusion would be that all these bugs are basically fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-volumed/+bug/1347272
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged]
<ochosi> since that was the troublemaker (according to this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-volumed/+bug/1314782)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1314782 Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged]
<ochosi> bluesabre: any idea about this ^ ?
<bluesabre> ochosi: as far I know, those were all fixed
<brainvvash> UBUNTU_MENUPROX fixed in trusty + utopic
<brainvvash> bug 1307657
<ubottu> bug 1307657 in unity-gtk-module (Ubuntu Utopic) "[SRU] UBUNTU_MENUPROXY should not be set in Xfce" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307657
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> in that case we should just mark that whole damn thing fixed with a reference to that SRU
<ochosi> brainvvash: care to do the honours? ^
<bluesabre> xfce apps were patched to fix it, and unity-gtk-module was patched for good measure
<brainvvash> what about the upstream reports?
<ochosi> i'll close those i guess
<ochosi> although i guess finding a commit for each of those would be nice...
<brainvvash> there are also other gtk modules like the unity scrollbars which could trigger the bug
<brainvvash> it should be fixed in appfinder, because it was ported to gdbus and somehow (or because of that) does not trigger the bug anymore
<brainvvash> let me try to find some comment
<brainvvash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-appfinder/+bug/1048805/comments/15
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1347272 in xfce4-volumed (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1048805 Several XFCE applications appear unresponsive after communicating with a daemon" [High,Triaged]
<ochosi> yeah, the commit for porting to gdbus is this one: 4a065a10945c72c985e254ff1ef13df188f3e11e
<brainvvash> comment 15
<brainvvash> so it's resolved unless proven otherwise
<brainvvash> was there even a new appfinder release after that git commit?
<ochosi> yes
<brainvvash> ok
<ochosi> 4.11.0
<ochosi> ok, next up thunar
<brainvvash> was thunar even affected or just added to the list, because it creates a daemon process too?
<ochosi> i don't know tbh
<brainvvash> I'd think that thunar uses gdbus too
<ochosi> it definitely sets up the daemon mode after init
<ochosi> so i'll mark this as invalid
<brainvvash> ok
<jjfrv8> elfy, the good news is we've gained the try/install buttons; the bad news, we've lost the restart button at the end of an install :(
<jjfrv8> that's for the 32-bit. haven't had a chance to try the 64 and probably won't until later today.
<jjfrv8> bbl
<brainvvash> ochosi, what about https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/xfce4-volumed-pulse/fork-before-gtk-init ?
<brainvvash> can anyone merge that?
<brainvvash> bluesabre, ^ :D
<bluesabre> >.>
<bluesabre> yes, will do that this morning
<brainvvash> thanks
<brainvvash> there is also another pending patch bug 1326733
<ubottu> bug 1326733 in xfce4-volumed-pulse "Show in full-screen mode (patch included!)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326733
<brainvvash> but maybe it's a won't fix, dunno
<bluesabre> yeah, that sounds undesirable
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess none of us has pushrights to volumed-pulse
<ochosi> so we can prolly only add it as a patch to the package, right?
<brainvvash> oh ochosi, you've already marked volumed-pulse as fixed, before even fixing it :D
<ochosi> ideally this should just be merged into upstream and made a build-option
<ochosi> brainvvash: it's fixed via UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
<ochosi> so whatever
<ochosi> that bugreport was just not useful anyway, far too big
<brainvvash> yea, especially because every package was also nominated for SRU -> additional clutter
<ochosi> if the pulseaudio plugin progresses a little more, we might just replace volumed-pulse with it
<ochosi> (well, and indicator-sound)
<bluesabre> ochosi: get it to mostly feature parity :)
<ochosi> i guess if we could motivate matias to join in, that wouldn't be too hard
<ochosi> he has already written much of the mpris stuff
<ochosi> it's in the soundmenu plugin
<ochosi> bbabl
<bluesabre> seeya
<elfy> jjfrv8: mmm - the text is bit mixed up, but I can see the line to press enter in both 32 and 64bit
<slickymaster> thanks for the heads up on the 32 bit images, e
<slickymaster> elfy even
<slickymaster> I'll try some tests next Monday
<elfy> cheers :)
<slickymaster> elfy. knome, yeah, we should set some time aside to look at/finish the slideshow
<slickymaster> but not a three way as knome's suggestion :P
<slickymaster> way many surreptitious readings on that 
<elfy> slickymaster: :)
<bluesabre> knome only meant one
<bluesabre> and we know which one
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> and its not appropriate for this channel
<bluesabre> :P
<elfy> ha 
<elfy> slickymaster: basically we'd need to get a suitable poll set that we can run for a cycle - then make sure necessary is on a link
<elfy> also - bluesabre slickymaster and Unit193 got mail re the QA thing
<elfy> and everyone (incvluding knome ) can comment there - just still XPL and QA lead can edit
<bluesabre> elfy: got it
<elfy> cool
<slickymaster> yeah elfy , saw the mail but haven't saw the soreadsheet yet
<slickymaster> spreadsheet even
<elfy> and obviously it's always going to be a wip 
<slickymaster> that's just images status, in the spreadsheet, right?
<elfy> slickymaster: just straight count 
<slickymaster> I'm assuming that those values are pulled directly out of the tracker
<slickymaster> or am I wrong?
<slickymaster> elfy, those stats are somewhat different from the ones in the tracker
<slickymaster> from the tracker: Vivid Daily (Testing): slickymaster: 33
<slickymaster> nevermind; i saw now that you one add values until January 31st
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> Got it too, yep.
<ochosi> bluesabre: should we do a release/upload of x-d-s at some point soonish?
<ochosi> there are still some unreleased fixes iirc
<Unit193> There are, I done did them.
<bluesabre> oh
 * bluesabre takes a look
<ochosi> also, this one is a wontfix imo
<ochosi> unless it's also changed upstream
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1301056
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1301056 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Session name has "Session"" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre ^
<elfy> Unit193: ack that
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'd agree, thats a wontfix
<bluesabre> bug I'm not a bug admin
<ochosi> useless string change, breaks translations, useless delta
<bluesabre> anything else you guys want in -default-settings before I push?
<ochosi> elfy: you can haz bug-admin?
<Unit193> Discussed that one a couple days ago.
<elfy> ochosi: can I? 
<ochosi> yeah, that's the question
<ochosi> if you can, please mark the above linked bugreport as wontfix ;)
<elfy> oic - no I can't - not got bug-admin
<ochosi> hm, anyone in team?
<elfy> slickymaster I think for one
<bluesabre> brainvvash, knome, I think
<brainvvash> negative
<elfy> odd
<elfy> I Can mark as Opinion
<bluesabre> same, but can't kill it
<brainvvash> mark as invalid :>
<elfy> yea - but probably best not to wildly change status :)
<brainvvash> bluesabre, and bug 1033174 ?
<ubottu> bug 1033174 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Improvement in the default keyboard shortcuts (lock screen and shutdown menu)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033174
<brainvvash> this was added upstream "Add <Ctrl><Alt>l shortcut for screen locking (xflock4)"
<brainvvash> currently we only have <super>l in xubuntu I think
<Unit193> Ctrl+Alt+Del, to confuse all those windows users.
<elfy> :p
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> makes it easy to remember though
<bluesabre> "I remember how to lock my xubuntu pc!"
<ochosi> not sure we need yet another shortcut tbh, it's easy enough for ppl to configure their own
<bluesabre> "oh... oh no... the screen is black"
<brainvvash> we have <ctrl><alt>t AND <super>t for xfce4-terminal
<elfy> isn't that the lock shortcut anyway?
<ochosi> if you others agree it's worthwile, i don't care enough to oppose
<brainvvash> I just want to close the report :)
<brainvvash> no need to keep it open any longer
<bluesabre> ctrl+alt+del is the lock shortcut
<bluesabre> that bug report wants it to be shutdown menu
<elfy> bluesabre: mmm not here in this brand new install it isn't
<bluesabre> let's not change a shortcut we've used for years :D
<bluesabre> orly
<elfy> and I've not had time to break that
<brainvvash> what does it do?
<elfy> hang on 
<elfy> xfloc4 - shortcuts, ctrl+alt+del and also ctrl+alt+l 
<brainvvash> bluesabre, the thing is, if you can use <Ctrl><Alt>l in default Xfce, maybe it should also trigger the lock screen in xubuntu
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> it does
<bluesabre> then we can mark it as fixed with a comment that ctrl-alt-del will not be changed
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/aQWV4fc.png
<brainvvash> did you start the normal Xfce session?
<elfy> apart from anything else - reading make it for Windows users immediately makes me think Wont Fix
<elfy> brainvvash: why would I do that - I run Xubuntu
<bluesabre> heh
<brainvvash> mmh, i have only one shortcut for xflock4
<brainvvash> the -del one
<elfy> in vivid?
<brainvvash> yes
<brainvvash> let me start the quest session
<bluesabre> just verified in guest session here
<elfy> this is a clean clean install from yesterday
<elfy> bluesabre: verified both? 
<bluesabre> yes
 * elfy hopes this isn't broken already ... 
<elfy> oh good :D
<bluesabre> L, Del
<brainvvash> yeah, ctrl+alt-l and ctrl+alt+del in guest session
<elfy> bluesabre: cool :)
<brainvvash> wasn't super+l used at some point?
<brainvvash> maybe I'm mixing up things
<elfy> this position of indicator menu's when panel is at bottom really is a bit of a pain you know
<ochosi> what, are you gonna report a bug now that "Super+L" isn't a shortcut for locking?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, unfortunate gtk3 bug :/
<brainvvash> i want to close the mentioned one
<elfy> brainvvash: this is why I'm glad I sed release/dev on the sources list the day after release :p
<ochosi> i guess this will (have to) improve when the panel is gtk3
<elfy> brainvvash: doing something now
<bluesabre> brainvvash: closed it
<brainvvash> bluesabre, thanks
<elfy> hah
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should really apply for bugsquad...
<elfy> biposting :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: probably should :)
 * elfy won't 
<elfy> have you seen the stupid wiki's they expect people to read for free ... 
<elfy> here you are - 10k words - easy :p
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> we have to ask knome how he did it
<ochosi> prolly pulled some strings ;)
<bluesabre> elfy: sounds like some xfce bugs
<elfy> changed the wiki so it was only 10k words probably :D
<elfy> bluesabre: :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: whenever you release x-d-s, please mark this one as fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1396804
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1396804 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Name For Thunar Settings Launcher Is Unclear (thunar-settings.desktop)" [Low,Fix committed]
<bluesabre> ochosi: too slow!
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/debian/changelog
<ochosi> k, fix released then ;)
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> you don't read those
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/debian/changelog#L9
<bluesabre> theres the exact line
<bluesabre> :P
<elfy> I see file manager and also a command from where I've pkexec'd in al;t+f2
<elfy> but you already know that's fixed ... 
<bluesabre> I just now uploaded x-d-s
<bluesabre> so it won't appear for a few hours
<bluesabre> (15.04.3)
<elfy> bluesabre: I don't see 2 entries here
<bluesabre> elfy: you have -staging installed?
<bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings builds daily there, so you'd have the fix already
<elfy> bluesabre: oh yea ... 
<elfy> :)
<elfy> bluesabre:  the proposed fix for that 2 thunar's works :D
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> ochosi: And as to your ping.  Welp, that's a bummer but not high priority.
<Noskcaj> Is there a ftp version of the xfce archive? I'm trying to port ubuntu-gnome's version watch to xfc
<Noskcaj> *xfce
<ochosi> Noskcaj: watch xfce?
<Noskcaj> lists what versions are in PPA, upstream, ubuntu
<Noskcaj> and debian
<Noskcaj> Ignore my ftp questions, doesn't matter
<Noskcaj> Are there any 4.11 things we don't have yet?
<Unit193> mousepad, but not been released yet.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Also, you know there is https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-xfce-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org, right?
<Noskcaj> yes, just it doesn't list PPAs and is often slow to update
<Noskcaj> I"m giving up on the ppa_versions thing though. I'm too bad a coding for that
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, can't push to the volumd branch - but can add the patch to the debian package
<bluesabre> bbiab
<bluesabre> back
<Unit193> front
<bluesabre> D:
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-22
<pleia2> next Xubuntu at article drafted here http://xubuntu.org/?p=2965
<pleia2> we need to find more orgs using Xubuntu, I've run out
<bluesabre> ochosi, ali1234: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-volumed/0.2.0-0ubuntu2
<bluesabre> pleia2: that looks good :)
<pleia2> great, it's shorter than some of the others, but very direct
<bluesabre> nothing wrong with that
<pleia2> I'll publish on Monday or so
<Noskcaj> ochosi, darkxst did the work for me, so we now have http://phillw.net/ubuntu-gnome/Xvivid410.html
<Noskcaj> It will probably be renamed to http://phillw.net/ubuntu-gnome/Xvivid412.html
<Akusari> hello  :-)
<elfy> morning
<Akusari> elfy: you wrote " nice little disk space usage bar turned up in thunar" which version is it?
<elfy> 1.6.5
<Akusari> ahhh, thanks
<Akusari> so, its a deb package in vivid?
<elfy> yep an update in vivid
<Akusari> thanks, wasn't an good idea todo a bling update in trusty :-P
<Akusari> blind
<Akusari> Well, maybe a backport to trusty is possible. I'll look on depencies and changelog. i have the bzr trunk already :-)
<brainvvash> Akusari, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.12
<Akusari> brainvvash thanks, sounds good
<Akusari> hmmm, i don't see all thunar plugins shipped with this ppa. Maybe there are package collection changes. I'll test it on my dev vbox :-)
<Akusari> btw: if xfce 4.12 is out finaly, do you plan a trusty backport ? 
<elfy> for you xfce peeps - https://wiki.xfce.org/contribute points to xfce users mailing list
<elfy> that gets a 404 
<elfy> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce
<bluesabre> elfy: lol
<elfy> bluesabre: I was just looking at your blog re 4.12
<elfy> so followed the trail ;)
<elfy> just realised I can report that :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> reported it up the chain
<bluesabre> elfy: its fixed
<bluesabre> thanks for your bug report :D
<elfy> :D
<elfy> that's funny - let me mark it fixed resolved 
<elfy> I really should hang about in xfce-dev I guess 
<elfy> bluesabre: anyway - so if xfce wants people to test this stuff - I assume as vanilla xfce, which is best done where? 
<elfy> and how on earth can you grab a bug list without specifying anything but date and not fixed? 
<bluesabre> elfy: its easiest to test in vivid, we have everything there
<bluesabre> the bug list is tricky, you have to modify the url
<elfy> just as xfce session? 
<bluesabre> xubuntu session should be fine actually
<elfy> I hate bug lists - if I can't find something easily - report it, someone somewhere will facepalm and mark as dupe :D
<elfy> bluesabre: oh ok - so doing that anyway then :p
<bluesabre> but you can modify the url and drop all the extra fluff until you have product and resolution, like so
<bluesabre> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?product=Exo&resolution=---
<bluesabre> elfy: yup, xubuntu team is pretty invaluable for xfce testing since we always ship the latest
<elfy> ok - might add trawling through xfce bugs to my plan
<bluesabre> that and arch
<elfy> yep
<elfy> what I mean by lost any clue is I've lost the will to live when people "lightlocker 14.04" in any combination
<dkessel> Unit193, others: yay for lowering the translation percentage - the german docs translation will make it into vivid now =)
 * dkessel will continue translating the remaining parts nevertheless :)
<dkessel> if any of you want to steal my PPA recipe for the docs and add it to staging or something, that's fine with me too
<dkessel> ^ don't know who to ping ;)
<elfy> neither do I :)
<Akusari> I noticed that ppa xfec-4.12 includes xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin version 1.43. The official xubuntu-backports ppa for trusty is shipped with version 1.40 only. Version 1.43 includes only bugfixes and no functional change compared to 1.40. Suggestion: Copy version 1.43 to xubuntu-backports for all users :-)
<Akusari> i'm using version 1.43 with trusty for a week now without any problems so far
<Unit193> dkessel: Sure thing, doc.
<Unit193> "The official xubuntu-backports ppa for trusty"?
<dkessel> Nah
<dkessel> Unit193: https://launchpad.net/~dkessel/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-docs-daily
<Unit193> Nah, someone else's comment after yours.
<dkessel> D'oh
<knome> pleia2, ochosi: either of you around?
 * bluesabre is
<knome> 00:03 knome: oh wow
<knome> 00:03 knome: our theme has been up for like 4 days
<knome> i'm about to make it public soonish
<knome> i need yes to check it once that's done
<bluesabre> sounds exciting :D
<knome> yes!!
<knome> ok, done
<knome> please look around
<bluesabre> looking
<bluesabre> no hand-drawn computers?
<knome> not yet
<bluesabre> knome: 14.10 release announcement points to the beta announcement
<knome> heh.
<knome> fixed
<knome> damn caching :)
 * bluesabre wants to standardize the screenshot size for http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/
<knome> hmm?
<knome> oh, heh, image aspect ratio?
<knome> it also shows images in a weird order
<knome> :)
<knome> if you have a $bunch of shots for 14.04 and/or 14.10, put them somewhere and i'll grab an push them
<bluesabre> I'll try to get a bunch of same aspect ratio in the next few days
<bluesabre> http://xubuntu.org/blog/ is kinda left-heavy
<knome> wfm
<knome> or cooperate with slickymaster 
<knome> oh, of course
<knome> need to fix that next
<bluesabre> http://xubuntu.org/donations/ is pretty
<knome> mhm
<knome> many pages aráº¹..
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/HMUq8RD.png
<knome> i know i know
<knome> just didn't get to that yet
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> should be better already
<knome> search widget still looks crappy, so not showing it
<bluesabre> knome: very nice
<bluesabre> no other appearance issues
<knome> this is all so nice
<knome> thanks!
<knome> i also tweeted about it, you might want to RT
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> done
 * knome bows
<bluesabre> knome: actually, why no 14.04 screenshots at all?
<knome> because old stuff
<knome> we are doing things in the new way (tm) now...
<knome> i guess i could move the 14.04 screenshots to the screenshots page
<bluesabre> its a lot prettier than the releases preceding it
<knome> heh, i would hope every release is
<bluesabre> so, what do we want the standard screenshot resolution to be?
<knome> i guess we want it to be in widescreen, most people use that now
<bluesabre> also, http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/oneiric_01/ (is the panel missing because that was the one with the seemingly innappropriate date)?
<knome> i have no idea...
<knome> i personally would dump all the old screenshots for now.
<bluesabre> yeah
<knome> we can reupload them if we need/want to
<knome> probably to an archive page or sth
<knome> the thing is,
<knome> the screenshots page used to be the archive page
<knome> because we had the recent screenshots on the front page
<bluesabre> ah, right
<bluesabre> 1280Ã720 maybe?
<knome> preferably >1400 in width
<knome> or, tbe, 1400 or more
<knome> that's the max width specified for the site
<knome> but if they aren't, then no big deal
<knome> because they should always be centered anyway
<knome> ..i guess
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> not sure > 1400 is a good idea with the recent burst in 1366Ã768 laptops
<knome> heh
<knome> well...
<knome> do 1366 then
<knome> but it doesn't really matter much
<bluesabre> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_display.asp
<knome> well i mean website-technically
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> just give me two numbers and I'll get on it
<bluesabre> :P
<bluesabre> and leave the VMs on my system in case we need to change
<knome> well any regular widescreen aspect ration, with the width being 1400 or larger is ideal
<knome> but if that's hard to do, 1366 or 1280 works as well
<bluesabre> k
 * bluesabre will work on 1440x900
<knome> nice, thanks
 * knome goes improve the download page
 * knome fixed the release announcement posts with images
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/14-10-release/
<knome> looks nice and in line with the overall stuff now
<bluesabre> knome: trusty https://www.dropbox.com/s/77fdiettxe6xcov/trusty.tar.gz?dl=0
<knome> ta
<knome> processing
<bluesabre> I'll do a similar set for precise, and ~2-3 for utopic
<knome> mhm
<knome> fwiw, we currently have no way to order the images as we wish
<bluesabre> oh?
<knome> should probably think the right way (tm) to do that for 2.0
<knome> yeah, currently it just orders based on time, newest first
<bluesabre> we can use touch on the screenshots to order them before upload
<knome> i believe it's upload time, not file creation time
<knome> but that's an interesting idea.
<bluesabre> not sure how ugly the upload time in the wp db is
<bluesabre> or just bulk upload in order when we get all screens
<knome> yes
<knome> something like that
<bluesabre> It'll take a while for the others, but should have them for you by morning
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/
<knome> okay.
<knome> i have no idea why they turned up like that
<knome> and in multiples.
<bluesabre> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-22
<cjbayliss> G'day folks! I'm trying to test the 64bit iso from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ and the installer won't start, so I try and report the bug and it is supposedly already reported. However I cannot veiw the bug, could someone confirm that this bug is actually reported? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1547518
<ubottu> Error: launchpad bug 1547518 not found
<knome> it's reported, but set as private
<cjbayliss> ok, cool. Thanks. :)
<Unit193> Couldn't remember when dead link and private.  Private should likely say something about being private...
<knome> set the bug as public since it had 2 public duplicates..
<cjbayliss> Cool. :)
<cjbayliss> Right, a yukky patch has been supplied on that bug.
<cjbayliss> Actually, it is never yukky to put things in try: except: but there is possibly something else that needs fixing, and I sick in bed and can't be bothered looking into it.
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> didn't get to be home at all yesterday, so nothing accomplished
<bluesabre> Today is Beta 1 Freeze, Thursday is Beta 1
<bluesabre> I might have a chance to get some uploads in tonight, we'll see
<knome> huzzah
<flocculant> bluesabre: if someone from -release joins the party there will be :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: also - I could try and get it started tomorrow anyway - if that helps you :)
<knome> le sigh
<knome> wb ochosi 
<ochosi> hmm crap. remote login crapped out again
<ochosi> how much did i miss?
<ochosi> (was away over the weekend at cottage with sauna)
<knome> some
<ochosi> guess i should really move to some other remote login
<knome> like pleia2's? :P
<ochosi> yeah like one that doesn't randomely reboot every month
<knome> :)
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> beta 1 building
<knome> branau, any progress on the wallpaper contest site?
<knome> branau, i've set up something on my own today, but if your code works better, we can use that too
<branau> Hey knome, just saw this
<knome> np
<branau> I haven't had a chance to work on it today, but I will tonight when I'm off work
<knome> i'm sure some of the work i've done is useful even with your code
<branau> I get off here in about 3 hours and then I'll be free all evening
<branau> did you push your code to the git repo in launchpad?
<knome> no, it's not derived from your code anyway
<branau> Ah, you started from scratch?
<knome> yeah, first i was working on the UI, then i quickly added some functionality
<branau> Gotcha, yeah I didn't make any changes to the theme at all so far, do you want to add your code as like a separate branch or something so I can pull it down and work on merging it? Or do you want me to just send you the code for my plugin?
<knome> if you are free in 3 hours, ping me again then
<knome> let's see how we want to merge these, or how to proceed
<branau> Sounds good. I'd check it out now but I'm on the clock and I'm not sure my bosses would approve of paying me for working on other projects haha
<knome> np
<branau> I've gotta get into freelance work so I don't have to worry about it :P
<knome> branau, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/wallpaper-contest/wallpaper-submissions.tar.gz
<knome> branau, feel free to test and try to rip it off...
<knome> branau, here *all* users should be able to upload, and all administrators vote
<knome> branau, vote counting is done automatically, and the submit form prompts for license and attribution
<branau> Knome, so are the users not going to be able to vote? just admins?
<branau> knome, I've also developed a like/dislike plugin that I was going to modify to use here, but if you've already built something specifically for this then we can go with that
<Nairwolf> Hi guys, I would like to ask you, in order to test new builds, is it necessary to download and install xub each time, or can I just update my packages ? 
<Nairwolf> on my test computer, I have Xubuntu with a build from few days
<flocculant> Nairwolf: you need to grab image - as the tests are about *that* iso 
<flocculant> so once you have the iso - you can update that with zsync - it just grabs the difference
<flocculant> hence people using virtual machines to do a lot of testing
<Nairwolf> I'm not using a virtual machines. Could you explain me what is zsync, and how much is different to do "sudo apt update && apt dist-upgrade" ? 
<flocculant> apt update just updates your repositories - then upgrade (either) upgrades packages *you* have where needed
<flocculant> zsync checks the iso against the current one - then grabs the differences - so no need to download 1Gb again - could be just 5% 
<flocculant> if you read the testcases against what we are testing you will see that it is about using *todays* iso 
<flocculant> your updated/graded xubuntu - might be completely different to the iso - and if you installed when we still had gmusicbrowser it will be
<Nairwolf> Yes, I've read your emails, that's why I was asking for that
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: often we will want people to test specific apps - catfish say - then you can do that with what you have
<Nairwolf> okay, but today you ask speficaly for the new iso, right ? 
<flocculant> yep
<Nairwolf> Sorry again, but I don't understand what will be different from the iso from last week ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: however I just sent another mail to the list - there is a nasty bug on hardware with batteries - the installer crashes - there will be rebuilds
<Nairwolf> I have a computer with batterie, so I think I will test that tomorrow after my examen
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I zsynced my image yesterday morning - this evening I did the same, zsync had to download some to make it current
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15174375/
<Nairwolf> yes, but what is different if packages updated isn't enough ? 
<ochosi> flocculant: gotta head to bed, but not before saying thanks for taking on the community part of the xenial b1 release!
<flocculant> Nairwolf: ^^ zsync checked the 32bit image that I have locally against the new one, found I had 86.4% so only got 15.6% to make it right
<flocculant> ochosi: welcome :)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: because there is no guarantee that anyone's machine is what we need testing
<Nairwolf> anyway, where can I find a tutorial to update my iso with zsync ? I've turned on my computer
<Nairwolf> yes, I believe you ;)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: here :)
<Nairwolf> here ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: ok so I can't point you art the wiki - it's down
<flocculant> so what are you wanting to zsync - 32 or 64bit? 
<flocculant> and I will talk you through it :)
<Nairwolf> 64 bits
<flocculant> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113125/testcases
<flocculant> there you can see the Link to download information - click that and you get all the info for this milestone on 64bit
<Nairwolf> Xenial Beta 1 ? 
<flocculant> now - using file manager - open a terminal where your existing iso is located - for me that's /Images/Xenial/ 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: yep - that's what we are testing till Thursday 
<Nairwolf> oh, but I've removed my iso ! 
<Nairwolf> and even with rzync, I still need to install it on my test-computer, right ? 
<flocculant> ok - so zsync won't work as expected - what it WILL do is tell you it has none and is going to grab the whole iso
<Nairwolf> ok, so, it's better to download directly xubuntu beta 1
<flocculant> Nairwolf: it makes no difference - if you do it the zsync way now - you'll know how to do it thereafter
<Nairwolf> ok, so I'm going to learn now
<flocculant> so open a terminal where you want the iso to be 
<Nairwolf> yes
<flocculant> then from the download page http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113125/downloads
<flocculant> copy and paste the zsync line into the terminal and press enter
<Nairwolf> ok, it's easy ;)
<flocculant> yep - it should have warned you it had to get the whole thing :)
<Nairwolf> indeed
<flocculant> do it tomorrow - and it will check the iso and then just get what's different :)
<Nairwolf> what is rsync flocculant ? 
<flocculant> just a different way of achieving the same result 
<flocculant> afaik anyway :)
<Nairwolf> ok
<flocculant> http://zsync.moria.org.uk/paper/ch02s07.html
<flocculant> apart from anything - if I am typing it manually it's easier to type zsync than rsync -tzhhP
<knome> branau, we likely want to allow only a small group of people to vote; that said, this is based on the user role, so it's easy to modify that to anything else
<Nairwolf> yes, you right flocculant
<knome> branau, one thing that is NOT done in that version is nonces for the ajax requests for boting, but that should be trivial enough
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I do this more or less every day, so I don't actually type anything other than my alias 'image' which zsyncs the 32 and 64bit iso's and then removes the old file when it's done
<Nairwolf> just another thing, each time I would like to test a new iso, I will need to do that ? Update the iso with zsync, and install it on my computer ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: yes
<Nairwolf> okay, and which tool do you use to build the iso in a usb key ? 
<branau> knome sounds good, I can grab the missing pieces from the plugin I wrote
<flocculant> Nairwolf: but - if you're doing this often - virtual machines are a useful tool - *most* of the tests I do - I do in a virtual machine
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I use the gnome disks tool 
<Nairwolf> okay, I don't know this tool
<flocculant> gnome-disk-utility
<flocculant> it does a bunch of things - one of which is restore an image - so I 'restore' the iso to the usb stick
<Nairwolf> why do you prefer it to unetbootin for example  ?
<flocculant> there have been problems with loads of the tools - unetbootin was causing problems - I stopped using it a year or so back
<knome> branau, basically, https://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/check_ajax_referer
<knome> but that really is more or less trivial
<Nairwolf> yes, I've heard that badly
<Nairwolf> I've checked on my computer, gnome-disk-utility is inside gnome-disks, right ? 
<Nairwolf> because I can't launch "gnome-disk-utility" but I can launch gnome-disks
<flocculant> yep
<branau> knome yep, I'm familiar with the process. Pretty simple
<flocculant> Nairwolf: in the menu as Disks
<Nairwolf> yes
<Nairwolf> Oh, I've been confused. 'restore' mean create a usb key bootable
<Nairwolf> restore means : writing into the usb key
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> make sure you've picked the right drive in the left panel
<knome> branau, i just landed that fix on my test server plugin (not in the tarball)
<knome> i should get that up in a repository today
<Nairwolf> flocculant, I think I'm doing the right thing ;)
<flocculant> if you aren't you'll wish you had 
<Nairwolf> ok, I'm testing the usb key in the second computer ;)
<flocculant> \o/
<branau> knome cool, you want to shoot me an updated tarball then?
<Nairwolf> no... it's not bootable...
<Nairwolf> Am I missing something wrong ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: no idea tbh - works for me :)
<knome> branau, in some time, i need to do other things meanwhile
<flocculant> Nairwolf: if you normally use something else - use that :)
<knome> (and i just broke something in php too)
<branau> knome no worries, I've still got another hour or so of work before I can clock out
<flocculant> well I gtg now - night all :)
<branau> night flocculant!
<Nairwolf> flocculant: that's what I'm doing
<Nairwolf> I always forget, should I format in fat32, or in ext4 for the usb key ? 
<Nairwolf> for this test : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113125/testcases/1663/results
<Nairwolf> I need to choose the option "Try Xubutu without installing" ? 
<Nairwolf> what is ubiquity ? 
<Nairwolf> okay, I've just tried the live session, and blueman-applet has crashed
<Nairwolf> If someone can help me to write a bug report, that would be great ;) 
<knome> what kind of help do you need?
<Nairwolf> knome: I wanted to follow this test ( http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113125/testcases/1663/results ) but I'm not sure to know what is ubiquity
<knome> ubiquity is the installer
<Nairwolf> and just after launched "xubuntu without installing", I have blueman-apple who has a crashed
<knome> that is not ubiquity
<knome> ubiquity is the part with the slideshow
<Nairwolf> oh, it's what you see when you want to "install xubuntu", right ? 
<knome> branau, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/wallpaper-contest/xubuntu-wallpaper-contest.tar.gz
<Nairwolf> ok, I see that ;)
<knome> Nairwolf, i think in this case, where it reads "ubiquity" it should read "maybe-ubiquity"
<branau> knome thanks, I'll plug it in and figure it out here in about an hour
<knome> np
<knome> branau, i believe this is "almost ready" as is; testing is totally welcome though
<knome> branau, and things like prompting the user if they really want to delete their submission could be good
<Nairwolf> knome: I've clicked on "try xubuntu without installing", and I've a crash of blueman, would I need to report it ? 
<branau> knome cool, I'll check it out and tweak anything that doesn't seem right. I'll post any changes to Launchpad
<knome> Nairwolf, well at least it isn't totally wrong, so if you have the time, please do
<knome> branau, wfm (or you can just be in touch with me directly)
<knome> i had something else in mind but the thought just vanished
<Nairwolf> The title is "blueman-apple crashed with dbus.exception.DBusExcpetion in call_blocking():" can you give me some indication in order to report it correctly, please ? 
<Nairwolf> Learn me to do it once, I would be able to do it next times ;)
<knome> Nairwolf, in terminal, run "ubuntu-bug blueman-applet" (if that is the right package name)
<knome> might be something else, but it will tell you
<branau> knome wfm? I'm not familiar with the acronym
<knome> branau, "works for me"
<knome> branau, and now i remember it!
<branau> Ah, I'll do both!
<knome> branau, i have *only* essentially touched the plugin, so no need to do sql dumps and push the wp core
<Nairwolf> knome: it launches apport (which was already opened in fact). 
<knome> Nairwolf, right, then just proceed from there as it says
<knome> hello Unit193 
<branau> Oh ok, nice. That's convenient
<Nairwolf> But I have an error message "the problem cannot be reported: the report belongs to a package that is not installed". Whaaat ? 
<knome> mmh... from the command i gave you, or even before that?
<Unit193> I didn't say words. >_>
<Nairwolf> From the command you gave me
<Nairwolf> In fact, I've already apport oppened
<Nairwolf> with all instructions
<knome> Nairwolf, then dismiss that and continue with the apport window you had open
<knome> Unit193, so? you have been caught nonetheless.
<krytarik> Nairwolf: Notice that it's already linked here though: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113125/testcases
<knome> krytarik, thanks ;)
<krytarik> Sure.
<knome> ok, other stuff for a while ->
<Nairwolf> indeed, thank you krytark
<Nairwolf> when I check the box "send an error report to help fix this problem" what's happen in reality ? 
<Nairwolf> Is it linked to launchpad ? 
<krytarik> Tries to report it to LP, yes.
<Nairwolf> yes, apparently, it's this bug report : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/+bug/1533206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1533206 in blueman (Ubuntu) "Blueman-applet crash on login: DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out" [High,Confirmed]
<Nairwolf> can you tell me how I can get the traceback ? 
<Nairwolf> in order to give it to launchpad, I don't know if it's useful or not
<krytarik> Nairwolf: No need to report a bug multiple times.
<Nairwolf> You're sure ? 
<Nairwolf> even at iso.qa.ubuntu.com ? 
<krytarik> You just link there.
<Nairwolf> sorry, I don't understand your sentence
<Nairwolf> it's already linked in fact
<krytarik> When you report your test result, you just link the bug report to it.
<krytarik> But no need to report the bug *itself* multiple times.
<Nairwolf> ok, even if someone has already reported the same bug ? 
<Nairwolf> oh, too late...
<Nairwolf> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113125/testcases/1303/results
<Nairwolf> okay, I'm going to test "auto-resize" test
<Nairwolf> thank you guys for helping me ;)
<krytarik> Sure - thank you!
<Nairwolf> I hope to become a good tester in few days ;)
<knome> Nairwolf, just remember that testing isn't a competition in speed, usually quite the contrary
<Nairwolf> Yes, you right, but if I'm able to do it regularly, and doing it well, that would be great ;)
<Nairwolf> It's important to me to know how to report correctly a bug ;)
<Nairwolf> I'm not really familiar with the bugtracker of launchpad
<Nairwolf> except the ubiquity bug, the daily iso seems really stable, right ? 
<krytarik> Nairwolf: http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html
<Nairwolf> thank you ;)
<Nairwolf> Later, I would be interested to help in development, but I'm far from helping
<Nairwolf> I still need to improve my skills as a developer, and I need to know more xubuntu world (and xfce)
<knome> the contributor documentation at http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ should help with pretty much anything you need to "get started"
<knome> (realistically speaking, it doesn't, but if you find stuff that is missing, we'll gladly work to get it included)
<Nairwolf> useful document ;)
<Nairwolf> ok ;)
<Nairwolf>  that's enough testing for me tonight ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-23
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
<bluesabre> quick on the response there :)
<flocculant> jjfrv8: don't see galaxy - see breeze here both live/install reported to bug 1548647
<ubottu> bug 1548647 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice uses breeze style" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548647
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre ^^ - I think -artwork is the right package - that at least is where I can see LO theme in the changelog :)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: welcome back - read the backlog - seen your tracker report - thanks :)
<Nairwolf> flocculant, that's nothing ;)
<Nairwolf> thank you for your help with zsync ;)
<flocculant> that's nothing ;)
<Nairwolf> I hope being able to help xubuntu more often, now ;)
<flocculant> that's great :)
<Akxwi-dave> Bluesabre.. Got some font feedback for you... been using it for the past 5 days... After a few days you cant tell the difference.. I have it on desktop  @ 1920x1080 and laptop on 1366x768 and looks good.
<Akxwi-dave> Noto-san on gui and noto-mono on term..  all at 9 ..
<bluesabre> Akxwi-dave: great, good to hear
<bluesabre> flocculant: surprised that we are even installing breeze. ochosi and I need to work on our theme upstream in libreoffice so we can have them handle the packaging and fix weird issues like that
<knome> bluesabre, ping
<knome> pleia2, requesting contest.xubuntu.org
<bluesabre> knome: hey
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<bluesabre> flocculant: nearly got the catfish clicking sorted... not sure how it became such a mess, but lets blame changes in GTK ;)
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> obviously I blamed that mentally anyway :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll likely be trying to get this uploaded, as well as the font changes on Thursday after b1 isos are up
<flocculant> ok :)
<flocculant> there's going to definitely be 1 rebuild - probably more ... 
<flocculant> currently ubiquity crashes in flames if hardware includes a battery :)
<bluesabre> yiiiiiikes
<flocculant> figuratively speaking - not exploding batteries :D
 * bluesabre breathes a sigh of relief
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> if it was that bad I'd have m/list(s) +website + anything else I could think of :)
<bluesabre> :D
<Akxwi-dave> Think I'll leave the iso testing off my laptop then.. :-)
<pleia2> knome: great
<genii> oooo
<pleia2> aiming for wednesday, mar 2nd at 17UTC for our next meeting, will anyone be around? :D
<knome> wednesdays are a bit bad for me
<knome> at least at that time i can't promise to be available
<pleia2> thursday better?
<knome> yep, wed has the only blocker
<pleia2> ok, the 3rd then
<knome> wfm
<Unit193> My client will be connected, I may even read backlog.
<pleia2> alright, good enough for me
<knome> lol
<knome> not very high standards then
<pleia2> :P
<ochosi> i'll do my best, can't promise anything though unfortunately
<knome> ochosi, we know "your best"
<ochosi> thanks :)
<Unit193> Yeah, have his client break and disappear a few days before. :---D
<knome> ochosi, not "you're best"
<Nairwolf> hi
<Nairwolf> is it still necessary to do test with the daily iso, or can I use the beta version ? 
<Nairwolf> with zsync the iso is different
<knome> depends which milestone you are reporting tests against
<knome> currently, we are testing beta1
<knome> but please note that the beta1 images might get updated too
<Nairwolf> ah ;)
<knome> so make sure you have the latest beta1 image
<Nairwolf> what is the difference between beta1 umage updated and the daily build ? 
<knome> beta - or any other milestone - is essentially a snapshot of the daily ISOs
<Nairwolf> ok
<knome> so theoretically on the first day of the milestone testing the image is the same
<knome> but in an ideal situation, the milestone image would not change until the release of the milestone
<Nairwolf> ok, so I have the same iso in fact
<bluesabre> knome: poke
<Nairwolf> ok, why it has changed ?
<knome> no, because in real life, bugs happen and they are fixed and ISOs are updated
<knome> so whenever zsync tells you you need to get new data, you need to.
<knome> bluesabre, i'll poke you back in 15ish
<bluesabre> knome: okie doke
<Nairwolf> sorry, I don't understand
<Nairwolf> you
<Nairwolf> Yesterday, I downloaded the beta iso, and now, I've updated it with zsync
<knome> then you have what you should.
<Nairwolf> the correct beta image is here ? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds
<knome> but you also need to make sure with zsync if it has been updated
<knome> s/also/always/
<Nairwolf> yes
<Nairwolf> i've done that
<knome> ...so what's the question?
<Nairwolf> my first question was "is it more important to test the daily iso or to test again the beta 1". But I didn't know that the beta1 image has changed, so, I'm going to test it again ;)
<knome> whenever there is a milestone iso, that
<Nairwolf> that ? 
<Nairwolf> Sorry, my english isn't perfect, I don't understand you...
<knome> whenever we have a milestone iso, it is the priority to test the milestone iso
<Nairwolf> okay, I didn't know that
<Nairwolf> and how could I know that the beta 1 was updated ? 
<Nairwolf> (sorry for being annoying with my questions, I'm a newbie in QA)
<knome> you know the beta1 (or any image) is updated by running the zsync command
<Nairwolf> ok
<knome> or the ISO version mentioned on the page you posted
<knome> (basically if it's different than it was before, it's updated)
<Nairwolf> I thought I've missed a mail or something like that
<knome> sometimes it's specifically announced if it includes a very important update
<knome> sometimes all flavor ISOs are updated because a common bug has been found
<knome> in those cases the respin/update might not have a specific mention
<Nairwolf> ok, isn't because of the ubiquity bug ? 
<Nairwolf> oh.... I can't boot on my usb key... 
<Nairwolf> Have you ever seen a message like that "No DEFAULT or UI configuration directive found!" and I have this prompt "boot: _"
<knome> this time it might be of the ubiquity bug - that would be a common bug - but i don't know, i haven't tested the beta
<flocculant> bluesabre: just so you know - upower still causing issues - I did us a rebuild - still an issue
<flocculant> hi knome :)
<flocculant> pleia2: 5pm is goodish for me - I should be about 
<knome> hey flocculant 
<pleia2> flocculant: great, thanks :)
<Nairwolf> hi flocculant ;)
<Nairwolf> ok, thank you knome ;)
<flocculant> hey Nairwolf :)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: if you are not sure if image is current - zsync it - it will say it has 100% and no need to download 
<flocculant> or words to that effect
<Nairwolf> ok, thank you flocculant for your advices ;)
<flocculant> no problem
<flocculant> ftr it says "Read xenial-desktop-amd64.iso. Target 100.0% complete."
<Nairwolf> yes, I've understood that, but firstly, I went to the daily iso, and I thought it's a new daily build and it's normal
<flocculant> Nairwolf: for all intents and purposes the milestone and the daily are one and the same
<Nairwolf> ok
<flexiondotorg_> flocculant, Wha?
<flocculant> not important - net split after freenode shenanigans - just 3 of us in here :)
<bluesabre> o/
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<knome> flocculant, not always :)
<knome> bluesabre, ok, so your turn to test my "app" ;)
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/wallpaper-contest/xubuntu-wallpaper-contest.tar.gz
<flocculant> cya tomorrow peeps
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<bluesabre> cya flocculant
<knome> bluesabre, hint: it's a wordpress plugin
<bluesabre> knome: ah
 * bluesabre installs wordpress on his laptop
 * cjbayliss hopes he didn't read that right
<knome> which one?
<bluesabre> knome: so, plugin installed
<bluesabre> now what?
<knome> bluesabre, see the sidebar
<knome> bluesabre, in admin, that is
<bluesabre> aha
<knome> it should be more or less self-explanatory at this point
<knome> voting and vote results are visible currently for admins
<bluesabre> knome: cool, seems to work
<Nairwolf> looks like there is still the bug with ubiquity and batterie....
<knome> Nairwolf, then link that to your test report
<bluesabre> knome: yup, painless
<knome> bluesabre, good :)
<Nairwolf> yes
<knome> we should get the marketing wheels rolling then!
<knome> (we almost have a new subdomain for this too)
<bluesabre> knome: great :D
<knome> also, probably sensible to check the terms too
<knome> and add stuff there as needed
<bluesabre> already reading
<knome> and a final check on an openid/launchpad enabled site to make sure everything goes smoothly there
<knome> it's mostly copied from the old terms page
<pleia2> "almost"!
<knome> pleia2, well, ticket is sent, IS has confirmed they understand what we're saying
<knome> (eg. not talking gobbledigook)
<pleia2> I know :)
<knome> but of course, you know everything ;)
<bluesabre> brb
<knome> pleia2, you might want to take a look at the plugin as well
<Nairwolf> guys, I'm doing this testcase : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113180/testcases/1300/results and I have a strange "error"
<Nairwolf> Failed to create a swap space
<Nairwolf> Do you think it's a bug, or is it something with my computer ? 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-24
<Nairwolf> floculant : how can I verify if this bug affects me ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1548647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1548647 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice uses breeze style" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<krytarik> Nairwolf: https://kdeonlinux.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/libreoffice3.png  vs.  http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/lo-writer.png
<Nairwolf> oh, thank you, the first one is much nicer ;)
<Nairwolf> I hope it will be changed ;)
<knome> actually, the latter one is what you should have.
<bluesabre> :D
<Nairwolf> i've shut down my test-computer, but it seems that I had the second one
<Nairwolf> why this theme ? 
<knome> there are actually a few things that are different in those two screenshots, so there is no clear answer
<Nairwolf> ok
<bluesabre> gnome-software seems to do *some* stuff now
<knome> :)
<knome> branau, hello
<branau> Hey knome! How goes it?
<knome> not bad
<knome> to answer to your email:
<knome> as i said, my original intention was to work on the UI side of things
<knome> then i noticed that the uploader on your version had a possibility to upload from an URL
<knome> plus the regular metadata stuff wordpress offers
<knome> i quickly checked if there was an option to be able to remove those, but there didn't seem to be a trivial choice 
<knome> i mean we only want the user to upload a file, without touching it's title, or too much else
<branau> Yeah, I thought you wanted me to use the built-in WordPress uploader, at least that was what I had understood
<knome> yeah; my code uses wp to handle the upload too
<knome> i think this is the old widget though
<knome> which turned out to be perfect for us :)
<branau> Gotcha, I must've misunderstood what you meant
<knome> less dependencies too!
<knome> i mean your version was fine too - it just had that URL thing, and other options we actually didn't want to show the user if possible
<knome> i totally didn't mean to snatch the work from you...
<knome> at the point i had the upload thing done, and having heard you say that you didn't touch the voting stuff yet, i quickly dropped that in too
<branau> It's all good, I should've clarified before jumping into it
<knome> the version you got actually saves all the votes in a single option; i've now updated the tarball into a version where each image has its own metadata with votes
<knome> (and licence/attribution in their own meta fields instead of the "content" field, so people can't mess with it now)
<branau> Sounds good, so you want me to upload that plugin so we can test it then=
<branau> ?*
<knome> it's still on temp.knome.fi
<branau> Ah, same url as before?
<knome> i've actually sent a request to the canonical IS to set up a new subdomain contest.xubuntu.org
<knome> so once we have that linked, i'll push the code to the server and set it up for further testing
<branau> Ah, sounds good
<knome> (i should also push the code to a repository under xubuntu-website in launchpad)
<bluesabre> Assuming we're leaving our monospace font as DejaVu, this should be it for the changes to desktop branches
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/xubuntu-default-settings/noto-sans
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~bluesabre/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.xenial.noto-sans
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-default-settings had 8 updates, showing the latest 3
<knome> bluesabre, well done
<bluesabre> flocculant: new catfish-daily package building in https://code.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/ubuntu/ppa - fixed
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branche
<bluesabre> s.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
<knome> huhu
<bluesabre> that failed
<bluesabre> :D
 * knome grants bluesabre the sherlock of the day award
<bluesabre> huzzahhhh
<bluesabre> flocculant: better link https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED
<bluesabre> with the recent annoyances in clutter, might set parole
<bluesabre> 's default back to xv and add some patches to make that better
 * bluesabre can't seem to type today
<bluesabre> will have to figure something out with mugshot :\
<knome> ok everybody, likely going to break dev.xubuntu.org for a sec
<ochosi> bluesabre: what's so broken with clutter in 16.04?
<ochosi> (i presume totem/video still works as always)
<bluesabre> ochosi: API change in ClutterGst... the old video sink was dropped and the new one is a pain to integrate
<bluesabre> ochosi: the old one was a clutter actor that could be easily embedded, the new one, not so much
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'm also apparently the only person using the API in python
<bluesabre> no code examples >.<
<bluesabre> will hop on one of those channels trying to get support sometime soon, haven't quite had time lately
<bluesabre> so to summarize... in mugshot the video appears white but a photo can technically be taken
<bluesabre> and in parole, I have code that makes it do something now, but it just pops the video window out of the player
<flocculant> bluesabre: what a good chap you are :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: still got issues with images and laptops - which probably is actually useful - not loads of rebuilds going on :D
<flocculant> I've managed to jury rig a laptop up so can at least test the installer doesn't crash prior to deciding to release or not
<ochosi> bluesabre: that sounds really meh
<flocculant> I'd likely still release anyway - it can install on laptop as long as remove battery/use ac
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<bluesabre> flocculant: funnnn
<bluesabre> flocculant: used gnome-software any lately?
<bluesabre> it does some stuff now
<bluesabre> and last night it consumed all of my ram after closing it
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> going to try to reproduce tonight, then file a bug if I can
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, especially since I moved to clutter with the idea that things should be stable and supported and easy to maintain
<bluesabre> (pretty much none of those ideals came true)
<flocculant> bluesabre: nope - not used it lately
<bluesabre> still doesn't list uninstalled apps (for me)
<flocculant> same
<bluesabre> but the updater functionality is starting to work, and existing apps can be launched now
<flocculant> really
<flocculant> it's telling me there are updates when there aren't
<bluesabre> *starting*
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> in as much as it probably could :)
<bluesabre> I think that might be related to the "Restart & Install" button at the top of mine
<bluesabre> scared to think of what that might do if it does not currently work
<flocculant> I dare you :p
<bluesabre> I'll do it in a vm later ;)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> I see you are sensible then :D
<bluesabre> only a bit
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume the catfish changes are in the ppa? I tested the click not working properly one I reported - that appears to work now, so I hope so :)
<flocculant> right - I'm off again - bbl
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes, the "catfish-daily" package
<knome> bluesabre, have you ever used dokuwiki with mysql?
<bluesabre> knome, nope
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> Time for work, bbl
<knome> i don't remember if i have, i might...
<Nairwolf> hi flocculant, I've received your message
<Nairwolf> I would like to help more, so tell me what I'm supposed to do ;)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: you read the QA dev docs? generally just carry on as you are for the time being - you're doing fine
<flocculant> assuming you're about still in May then we can look at getting you to do more for sure
<Nairwolf> flocculant: I need to admit, I'm often lost with all links to deal with (docs.xubuntu.org, ubuntu wiki, launchpad)
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> for QA you need one :)
<flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ 
<Nairwolf> ok !
<Nairwolf> I'm gonna read that
<Nairwolf> thanks
<flocculant> 3 of the chapters are qa
<Nairwolf> I need to do some stuff right now, maybe I'm going to ask some questions later
<Nairwolf> yes, I've seen that
<Nairwolf> oh, I wasn't connected, what was my last message ? 
<Nairwolf>  I've just discovered that : https://trello.com/b/IV66JCHl/xubuntu-qa
<Nairwolf> what does mean "Priority 5" ? 
<flocculant> it';s the 5th time it was going to get called
<Nairwolf> what is "it" ? 
<flocculant> don't really use that anymore - not likely to make it into the yogic yinepu cycle
<Nairwolf> Can I join this team or do I need to show my work, before ? 
<Nairwolf> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers
<flocculant> you can join that - it's open team 
<Nairwolf> okay, what are the implications ? Will I receive some mails ? 
<flocculant> some - not many 
<Nairwolf> ok, ok, I will see
<flocculant> bluesabre: I think I asked this before - lost in the logs of time though ... why do we have evince and evince-gtk?
<Unit193> flocculant: evince-gtk is a transitional dummy package back to evince now.
<knome> Unit193, since you mentioned it, navigation on dev. and wiki. should now work seamlessly
<knome> (seamlessly meaning that if you have dev. open and go to wiki. (or the other way), your irc tab will be reset)
<knome> but maybe the irc tab should default to opening in _blank anyway
<Unit193> Great, nice.
<flocculant> knome: can I leave the website release doodah for tomorrow to you? 
<flocculant> bluesabre: draft wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta1/Xubuntu - if you could look at the bug fix/enhancement thing that'd be nice :)
<knome> is there something we specifically like to highlight on the announcement?
<knome> maybe gmb/no media manager?
<knome> and noto
<flocculant> sounds like the sort of things which should be on it 
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3731&preview=true
<flocculant> not sure there are any other major changes from 15.10
<flocculant> knome: thanks - looks just how I thought it would :)
<knome> i checked http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-timeline and searched for "in development"
<knome> and no, i didn't find anything specific
<knome> did a few updates
<flocculant> yep
<knome> do we want to mention the beta on the footer?
<knome> like we did before with 15.10
<knome> and
<knome>  This is the first beta towards the final release in October.
<knome> not
<flocculant> yea I think so 
<knome> s/15.10/16.04/ too :P
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> actually not so sure
<knome> about mentioning on footer?
<flocculant> yea
<knome> then the beta release won't be visible on the front page at all
<flocculant> as you know on Friday it's out of date
<knome> (not saying this is unwanted, just saying)
<flocculant> why is it not on the front page? 
<knome> the blog articles we show only show "articles", eg. not news
<flocculant> ok
<knome> that's intentional, because we don't want it to be littered with "15.10 b1 out", "15.10 b2 out", etc...
<knome> (and because the latest real releases are highlighted already)
<flocculant> I'm not convinced that advertising b1 is what we should do tbh - I'd rather people asked and got pointed at daily
<knome> ack
<knome> i was just saying so that you are aware
<flocculant> yea I understand that :)
<knome> (and because we did the footer thing before)
<flocculant> I think when we get to RC time we can do it 
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> yep - I've just been mulling it over as we started talking about it 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> given the lack of testing we *know* about - I don't want much to get into that install b1 and apt-get update it till April thing :)
<knome> bug 1462445 ?
<ubottu> bug 1462445 in Clutter "Gtk applications start with blank screen (Clutter 1.22.4 and GtkClutter 1.6.2)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1462445
<knome> bug 1515425 ?
<ubottu> bug 1515425 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "natural scrolling (reverse scroll direction) not working in mousepad" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1515425
<knome> re: issues we might want to highlight
<flocculant> yea I've got a list - the mousepad one isn't on it :D
<knome> :)
<flocculant> the other mousepad one is ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> i should tackle that *some day*
<flocculant> :D
<knome> but yeah, i think i should be around during the day enough tomorrow to take care of the website update
<knome> if not, and you are, feel free to go push the publish button
<flocculant> well - I'm driving the train with stgraber so ... 
<knome> the announcement should be ready to go already considering the download link is correct
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> he's apparentyl working pacific time - so it'll be later in the day I guess
<knome> yeah, not EU-based
<knome> we have guests afternoonish
<flocculant> right 
<knome> but i'm not completely tied to them
<knome> i mean i can check the situation etc
<flocculant> I just didn't want to find I had to write the website thing at the last minute :)
<knome> sure
<knome> tbh, this is all *so* much easier with the tracker now
<knome> it isn't like "wait, what did we change" at all
<flocculant> well I don't really use it for this much - I'm more interested in what bugs I see on the 2 trackers
<flocculant> yea for sure :D
<knome> yeah, sure
<knome> but since the critical ones are likely to be tracked on the bugs blueprint...
<knome> (there's one good reason to maintain it, since you were once wondering)
<flocculant> generally - I've not been good lately 
<knome> le sigh
<knome> if IS would just get our subdomain ready, i could proceed with the wallpaper contest stuff
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> \o/ 32 and 64 bit finally installed on a battery laden hardware
<flocculant> knome: while back there was that blueman applet discussion where we were trying to work out what it affected
<flocculant> seems to not affect 64bit on this laptop - but does on 32bit ... 
<knome> "heh"
<Nairwolf> when new daily build are done ? 
<Nairwolf> is it programmed ? In order to know when I need to check with zsync
<knome> always check
<knome> there might be a manual rebuild
<knome> usually not for dailies, but who knows.
<Nairwolf> yes, but I wanted to say that I've checked few hours ago, and it wasn't updated. And flocculant told me at #xubuntu that it was updated. I wanted to know when automatic builds are done
<knome> noonish UTC afaik
<knome> flocculant, am i right?
<flocculant> 10 am UTC for cron led builds
<flocculant> milestone one's are whenever - our latest was when I kicked it off after ubiquity new landed
<knome> i would still say better test every time; you never know what the 1337 people are up to.
<bluesabre> knome: no noto yet, waiting until after b1 (so tomorrow night)
<knome> aha
<knome> done
<bluesabre> Haven't reviewed the rest yet, on way home
<knome> bluesabre, just that we don't forget, can you add a work item for droid->noto
<bluesabre> Will do
<knome> thanks
<Nairwolf> knome: I can't run zsync everytinme ! Or I need to make it automatic ^^
<knome> Nairwolf, why can't you?
<Nairwolf> do you mean, why I can't run rsync for example every hour ? 
<knome> well if you run a test every hour, you surely can run the zsync command once an hour too
<knome> tbh, you likely need to run it only once per test session
<knome> and that's in most cases fine
<Nairwolf> I can't run a test every hour...
<knome> so why would you need to run the zsync every hour then?
<knome> just run it every time before you do a test.
<Nairwolf> because you told me that I have to test everytime ^^
<Nairwolf> obviously, before I launch a test, I update the iso
<knome> yes, every time you run a test...
<knome> i didn't mean (or say) "every hour"
<Nairwolf> ok, I think I misunderstood you
<Nairwolf> maybe my english is not perfect. I've checked if there is a new version few hours ago, and there wasn't. The iso wasn't updated, so I was saying to myself (no need to test today). And then, few minutes ago, I've learnt that there is a new update. That's why I wanted to know when the build are done. That's all. 
<knome> as said, the *automatic* updates happen noonish UTC, but there can be other manual updates
<knome> so that's why it makes sense to test if the ISO has changed every time you are about to run a test
<Nairwolf> yes, you right. But tonight I've some freetime, and if flocculant didn't tell me that there is a new update, I wouldn't have tested it right now. 
<knome> sure
<Nairwolf> But, that's okay, thank you for telling me the hour. 
<knome> that's why we have these communication channels
<Nairwolf> indeed ;)
<Nairwolf> thank you anyway
<flocculant> Nairwolf: for when we are doing milestone tests the quickest way to see if we have a rebuild is check the version listed on the tracker
<Nairwolf> ok, flocculant
<flocculant> it now says 201602224, if I did a rebuild now it would be 20160224.1
<flocculant> for dailies - the time is ~10.00UTC
<flocculant> unless it's not building - always check the date :)
<Nairwolf> thank you
<flocculant> welcome
<Nairwolf> I've the same bug as yesterday "the creation of swap space in partition #5 of SCI3 failed" before the time zone window...
<flocculant> Nairwolf: it's useful if you made note of things you've needed to ask about - so we can add information 
<Nairwolf> sorry, maybe I don't have understood again... 
<Nairwolf> It's during ubiquity, how can I get some information (like traceback ?)
<Nairwolf> I don't really know which information I need to add
<flocculant> Nairwolf: report bug 990744 on the tracker against the testcase you followed
<ubottu> bug 990744 in partman-basicfilesystems (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu installer says: The creation of swap space in partition failed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/990744
<Nairwolf> thank you flocculant, it seems to be this bug, you right !
<Nairwolf> I was starting to write a bug, I will just write a comment. Thank you
<flocculant> no need to comment - you can click affects me at the top though
<flocculant> important you get it on the tracker - when I do release notes I refer to the tracker for bugs people have seen
<Nairwolf> yes, but I would like to add some information
<Nairwolf> ok
<Nairwolf> that's done
<flocculant> thanks 
<flocculant> time for me to wander off for a while - night all
<Nairwolf> good night ;)
<Nairwolf> which is weird is I had the same issue yesterday, and I succeded to install the iso. Today, I can't ! 
<Nairwolf> I'm still stuck with this bug
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-25
<Nairwolf> apparently, there is a workaround. I need to delete all the disk before installation. I will try that tomorrow
<zequence> You have the ubuntu indicators too? Meaning, double occurances of some stuff, like clock, batter power, etc
<Unit193> zequence: Do you have xfpm and indicator-power?
<zequence> Unit193: Not sure what xfpm is, but yes, there's an indicator for power
<zequence> It's the same problem we've hade the last few years
<zequence> ..before release, that is
<zequence> So far it's been something that Ubuntu devs had to correct
<zequence> Some dependency problem
<zequence> Unit193: But, you don't have that?
<zequence> flocculant: You know anything about that?
<Unit193> zequence: No?
<bluesabre> zequence: screenshot?
<bluesabre> zequence: quick comparison of our indicators from the iso manifests, https://paste.ubuntu.com/15196225/
<bluesabre> flocculant: b1 is looking fine to me
<bluesabre> (in vbox)
<Akxwi-dave> flocculant, has the slide show been updated yet or is that going to be done on RC?
<Akxwi-dave> also logged a new bug 1549732 from latest iso
<ubottu> bug 1549732 in imagemagick (Ubuntu) "Duplcate Imagemagick entries on menu, none work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549732
<bluesabre> Akxwi-dave: Slideshow is usually updated later, around UI freeze or a bit later
<bluesabre> New catfish release last night, https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.4/1.4.1, in -staging, will upload to xubuntu tonight
<bluesabre> also expecting to make the switch to the Noto font tonight
<bluesabre> So a few goodies expected in tomorrow's image
<knome> bluesabre, i just looked at the issue with mousepad search highlights, and it seems like mousepad will always show the search highlight with the same yellow bg, eg. it doesn't seem to understand the setting in the theme
<knome> bluesabre, want to hack mousepad? [:
<Akxwi-dave> cheer bluesabre, wont bother with that yet then..
<bluesabre> knome: that sounds annoying, suppose I can take a look
<bluesabre> knome: in case I do find it, what's the offending setting?
<knome> benonsoftware, <style name="search-match" foreground="white" background="green" />
<knome> err, bluesabre 
<knome> as you can see, i don't ask for the yellow highlight
<knome> i'll update the bug too
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<knome> well
<knome> the bug actually says that
<knome> ok, updated bug 1508192
<ubottu> bug 1508192 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "Mousepad search highlights hard to see" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508192
<knome> also posted an URL i bumped into when looking at the issue which might be useful
<bluesabre> knome: seeing the same search highlight in gedit
<bluesabre> fwiw
<knome> hmm.
<ochosi> hey everyone
<knome> well apparently it has worked in gedit, since the description says so...
<knome> ochosi, hello
<knome> ochosi, do you have 15 mins or so?
<bluesabre> knome: https://i.imgur.com/rXlWzDY.png
<knome> bluesabre, oh right, sure
<knome> that's the "selection" style
<knome> type "pizza" twice in the document
<knome> and make sure gedit highlights them all
<knome> that style isn't working (at least)
<bluesabre> aha
<knome> i can fix the "current selection" style, i think
<bluesabre> yes, it turns green after the search finishes
<knome> yeah
<knome> so that's not working in mousepad at least
<bluesabre> that's probably the bug
<knome> yes
<knome> that's the other bug
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> knome: hmm, 15mins not really
<ochosi> but let's try
<ochosi> what's up?
<Akxwi-dave> hi ochosi 
<knome> ochosi, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/series
<knome> ochosi, since we both like gmb, we could simply collaborate on the article so no need to merge it up
<knome> and that we don't repeat stuff too much
<knome> ochosi, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-gmb
<ochosi> humm yeah, with the only downside that i don't really use it anymore...
<knome> what do you use then? :P
<ochosi> i've pretty much switched to spotify
<knome> hahah
<ochosi> maybe not a definite switch, but for now it's the most practical solution
<zequence> Hmm, wonder why we get those. Ok, thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> hi Akxwi-dave 
<knome> ochosi, for purposes of this article series, i think it would be fair if you pretended like you use it though
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> hehe
 * ochosi is the big pretender
<ochosi> (not to confuse with the big spender)
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> ochosi, i've left you the honor to talk more about shimmer for gmb
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - I'll mark them then 
<bluesabre> flocculant: great, thanks!
<flocculant> bluesabre: no upgrade testing has gone on - and there are apparently issues - I will put a warning to that effect on the release note
<flocculant> "There be dragons here" or something :p
<knome> flocculant, announcement too, plz
<flocculant> knome: mousepad - are we saying we can't do anything about the useless highlighting?
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool\
<bluesabre> flocculant: just means somebody needs to fix it ;)
<flocculant> knome: ack
<knome> flocculant, we can do something for the "current" highlight
<flocculant> bluesabre: for lts? 
<knome> flocculant, but not the "highlight all" stuff... unless bluesabre or somebody else fixes mousepad
<flocculant> knome: ok - that's certainly better than nothing 
<bluesabre> flocculant: Haven't had a chance to run upgrade tests, tried cranking out a bunch of tests last night/this morning
<flocculant> I assume that current would move if there was many items?
<knome> flocculant, it moves when you press "next"
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - same - not going to worry about upgrades
<flocculant> knome: ok cool :)
<knome> (or "prev")
<flocculant> yep
<knome> flocculant, ok, can you try something for me
<knome> flocculant, in /usr/share/gtksourceview-2.0/styles/xubuntu-light.xml
<knome> flocculant, find the line that says <color name="bg_contrast_low" ...
<knome> flocculant, should be line 10
<knome> flocculant, change the value of that to "#cccccc"
<knome> flocculant, then close all mousepad instances and run one again and see if the search match/selection color is better
<flocculant> knome: lunchtime - I'll look this afternoon
<knome> sure, no rush
<knome> flocculant, then, if it's not ok, change the value to "#bbbbbb"
<flocculant> knome: would you like the website page linked on the announcement? 
<knome> what website page?
<flocculant> the draft 
<knome> you mean would i like the announcement on x.org linked to from the notes in w.u.c?
<flocculant> no - the mail I will send to announce today - currently it has image url/wiki url - I can also put the x.org page one there too 
<flocculant> < in charge :D
<knome> ahh
<knome> yeah, i think that would be good
<flocculant> okey doke 
<knome> per the target audiences for websites (described at http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/start), the x.org website is the number one place for users
<knome> well, it actually doesn't say number one :P
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> but a mail to announce probably isn't a target - though it will get fridgified 
<knome> maybe it should...
<knome> it's fine really
<knome> if we thought it shouldn't be linked, then it would be weird to publish it
<flocculant> not sure up to now we've done so
<knome> good time to start :)
<flocculant> but probably because time etc
<Nairwolf> hi guys, I've found that this morning : http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details (with specification "bugs"). What is it ? Is it bug you want to fix ? 
<knome> yes.
<Nairwolf> ok, who are developpers here ? 
<knome> the xubuntu developer tema
<knome> *team
<Nairwolf> ON this page, I see there are 87 members. That's pretty big !
<flocculant> knome: #a6a6a6 is better
<Nairwolf> I'm more interesting by development, but I'm beginner, do you tink I could receive some help, if I need ? 
<Nairwolf> Or, do you think it's possible to list some "easy bug" like libreoffice does, for example ? 
<flocculant> wish I'd known where to change that - I'd have done an mp for it 
<Nairwolf> I admmit it's difficult to know if it's an easy bug or not, and it involves more work
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: our development team is actually quite a bit smaller, most of those are from the larger Ubuntu developer community, https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+members#active
<bluesabre> time for work, bbl
<bluesabre> hf everyone
<flocculant> cya bluesabre - thanks :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: you've got lock on wiki ... 
<Nairwolf> oh, I see that bluesabre !
<bluesabre> flocculant: woops
<bluesabre> flocculant: hopped off
<bluesabre> flocculant: is the lock released?
<flocculant> yep - have fun :)
<Nairwolf> bluesabre: I see you've developed a lot of software (catfish, menulibre, parole). Have you started this software from scratch ? When have you started to contribute to Xubuntu ? 
<Akxwi-dave> flocculant, I've run 14.04 to 16.04 upgrade which failed drastically.. 15.10 to 16.04 ran nice and smoothly  both testcases were logged.. Happy to do some extra upgrade tests
<flocculant> ok - bbl 
<flocculant> Akxwi-dave: yea upgrade failed on me last week too - I'll be warning on our notes there are dragons there
<Akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> we could perhaps spend a bit of time in vm's with upgrades next week 
<Nairwolf> Actually, until April, I will not have time to develop for other projects that I'm currently doing. 
<flocculant> van is beeping it's horn - time to off again :)
<Akxwi-dave> Gcya lter mate
<Nairwolf> Oh, I think I've found something strange with xenial. There is two launchers for ImageMagick, and no one seems to work (but I'm almost sure I don't know how to use it)
<Nairwolf> What are difference between this two launchers ? Isn't better to have only one ? And what is supposed to do after click to one of them ? 
<knome> flocculant, well, that's really dark :)
<knome> flocculant, but i'll check it
<knome> after all, i don't use the light theme...
<knome> ok, fine, let's go with #a6a6a6
<knome> actually nope
<knome> want to keep the text readable too, so i'll go with #bbbbbb
<knome> let's review this after you've used that for a while
<knome> bluesabre, pushed the new color schemes to xubuntu-artwork trunk
<knome> bluesabre, tell me whether you want to land this fix and the new wallpaper (WIP) in two uploads or if you prefer waiting the wallpaper and doing just one upload
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, did a quick test of catfish 1.4.1. It looks like the custom date search is finding the correct range, but it's still displaying the file modified time in UTC. Should that be the case?
<knome> ochosi, any estimation when you would have time to write some answers for the article?
<jjfrv8> bluesabre,for example, if thunar shows a file date of Monday, 21:00, catfish shows it as Tuesday. This is for US Eastern time.
<knome> ochosi, ok, i mostly have finished my part of the article, and moved that to x.org
<knome> ok, cloud player users
<knome> what do you want to say about them?
<knome> i don't think the generic questions are too appropriate in most cases, because i would imagine the selection of tracks affects your choice substantially too...
<Nairwolf> if someone can help me to understand why there is two ImageMagick by default in the menu, I would appreciate ;)
<Nairwolf> Also, the second one doesn't have any icon. I suppose it's not normal. 
<Nairwolf> If it's not normal, I would like to open a bug report, but I need help to know where to post it. 
<Nairwolf> where to report it
<Akxwi-dave> nairwolf its bug 1549732
<ubottu> bug 1549732 in imagemagick (Ubuntu) "Duplcate Imagemagick entries on menu, none work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549732
<Akxwi-dave> If your testing the ISO, logg that bug against it
<Nairwolf> thank you Akxwi-dave
<Nairwolf> Have you just opened this bug ? 
<Akxwi-dave> I opened it around lunch time today..  :-)
<Nairwolf> ok, ok, I should have searched more
<Nairwolf> I've reported that on the iso tracker. Thank you Akxwi-dave.
<Nairwolf> Akxi-dave, but I'm not sure it's caused by the imageMagick package itself. 
<Nairwolf> because ImageMagick can be launched with a picture in argument
<Akxwi-dave> If you could add that to the bug report as a comment that will help them to narrow things down.
<Akxwi-dave> its probably just stray shortcuts that need cleaning up..   :-) 
<Nairwolf> I've done that : http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/357/builds/113243/testcases/1628/results
<Nairwolf> Is it okay ?
<Akxwi-dave> cheers.. 
<Akxwi-dave> thats fine
<Akxwi-dave> right time to get back to work,,, cya all later
<knome> slickymaster, how much have you thought about the installer slideshow for xubuntu 16.04?
<knome> flocculant, "When contributor docs live - rework website QA page"
<knome> flocculant, isn't that done?
<knome> flocculant, not "blocked"
<flocculant> knome: not blocked - not done
<knome> no?
<knome> ok
<knome> nvm then
<flocculant> probably needs wording so other people understand it :p
<knome> maybe
<knome> or then noy
<knome> *not
<knome> as long as you are on top of it, and keep the item up-to-date
<flocculant> the cont docs are live - I've not reworked the x.org page yet :p
<knome> yeah
<Nairwolf> Who is actually the XPL ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, currently, ochosi is
<Nairwolf> nice to know that ;)
<knome> i would also say that it's not too hard to find out yourself
<Nairwolf> And who is Pasi ? I've seen his mail right now at xubuntu-users
<knome> sure, we'll help you where needed, but it's expected that you do something yourself
<knome> i'm pasi.
<knome> /whois knome
<Nairwolf> yes, you right knome. I would do more next time
<knome> slickymaster, lp:~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604 for the working branch
<flocculant> knome: "giving the XPL full access to administrate all Xubuntu teams" > "giving the XPL full adminstration access for all Xubuntu teams"
<knome> x.x
<knome> committed a new revision
<flocculant> :)
<dkessel> Yay... My xenial won't get to lightdm anymore. Instead it hangs before that
<flocculant> \o/
<dkessel> Known? Good evening
<flocculant> not known to me no - fully updated?
<dkessel> Mhh honestly.. Don't know. Don't have time to investigate seither, too Bad. Back to using teisty for today
<dkessel> trusty
 * genii immediately blames systemd
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> genii blames systemd for that too 
<genii> dkessel: Is your Xenial hanging on some message like g-io-error-quark
<genii> flocculant: I just fixed the lightdm issue on my box here by sudo systemctl enable lightdm
<genii> ...so yes, it was systemd
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> you updated lately? 
 * flocculant wonders if he's doing the same next boot 
<dkessel> genii: so you had that too?
<genii> dkessel: Yes, but going from 15.04 to 15.10, not on Xenial. But I suspect likely same or similar issue
<flocculant> knome: published
<pleia2> social mediaz time
<flocculant> yup :)
<flocculant> the ubuntu-release mail is there - but no-one at present to moderate the devel-announce one
<flocculant> but we can do what we want
<pleia2> ok, fb, g+ and twitter all done
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks for that :)
<pleia2> I'll just prep the -release one for fridge for now, hopefully announce can be let through soon
<flocculant> awesome :)
<pleia2> nice quote :)
<_Sponge> pleia2:   ËËË â¡ ËËË
<flocculant> pleia2: it felt rather apt :D
<knome> great!
<knome> thanks pleia2, our social media princess
<flocculant> knome: I changed a word in your gmb draft 
<knome> WHAT
<knome> :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> did you make the change in the pad too?
<flocculant> pad?
<knome> 14:12  knome: ochosi, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-gmb
<Nairwolf> hi, no new daily iso tonight ? 20160225 isn't here
<flocculant> well guess I missed that one knome - must be because I'm not being pinged on ochosi or knome :p
<flocculant> Nairwolf: no - we just released b1 ... 
<knome> flocculant, just making sure that i don't just for some reason copy it over again and revert your fix..
<knome> flocculant, bah, you should!
<Nairwolf> flocculant: ok
<knome> flocculant, add all team nicks to hilight!
<flocculant> knome: no - I really really shouldn't :p
<knome> that'd be fun...
<Nairwolf> So, I'm free tonight ;)
<knome> Nairwolf, you can always do package testing... :P
<knome> (just kidding, it's sensible to take breaks)
<flocculant> knome: changed pad for Justin
<knome> cheerio
<flocculant> bye
<Nairwolf> knome: that ? http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/350/builds/105268/testcases
<Nairwolf> knome: that seems fun
<knome> yes.
<flocculant> knome: upgrade warning is a lot more in your face on release notes - not much I could on x.org post
<knome> i can work on it
<knome> just a sec..
<knome> better?
<flocculant> yea - thanks :)
<flocculant> if anyone says 'upgrade didn't work' 
<flocculant> I shall blunt
<knome> np
<flocculant> if you'll all excuse me for a day - sick to death of the sight of the tracker - not looking till Saturday :D
<knome> flocculant, sure, this is only related to the maintaining anyway
<flocculant> knome: I didn't mean our one - but iso.qa and package.qa :)
<knome> oh, hah
<knome> fair enough too
<knome> take the weekend off :P
<flocculant> thanks ;)
<flocculant> going to make like zebedee now - cya tomorrow :)
<knome> :D
<knome> nighty
<pleia2> knome: should the beta1 article be on the front page?
<pleia2> I forget what bits to fiddle for that
<knome> pleia2, nope; i talked through it with flocculant, and he said it's better if it's not visible
<knome> and due to our configuration, it shouldn't show up automatically either (only "articles" are shown)
<pleia2>         okie
<pleia2> eep, wifi
<knome> :D
<Nairwolf> the article about the release is nice ;)
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: I've done some from scratch (mugshot), some based on other work (menulibre from alacarte), some rewritten (parole with ochosi's help), and some just maintaining (xfce4-settings)
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: I started with reporting bugs until ochosi got annoyed and dragged me into IRC
<bluesabre> knome: when are we expecting the wallpaper?
<knome> when do you need it?
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: darn, will take a look. Timestamps are in UTC, so that's that confusion
<bluesabre> knome: no hurry, was in response to your Q about one or two uploads
<knome> i know
<bluesabre> knome: UI freeze is march 10, so pretty please before then :D
<knome> yeah, it's almost ready
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> just the last 20% taking 80% of the time..
<knome> anyway, i think it's fine enough to land the color change on UIF day too
<knome> or practically before
<knome> it still gives us some time to react even before b2
 * bluesabre looks forward to a 4-dimensional wallpaper featuring a mouse in the future
<knome> well
<knome> you might just get one!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't forget taking over catfish! ;)
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, was only giving a few examples
<Unit193> Gotta give an example of each type! :--D
<bluesabre> Unit193: just reminds me of all the work I have to do :D
<Unit193> :3
<Nairwolf> bluesabre: nice to know that ;) I hope being able to follow the same way as you ;)
<Nairwolf> I've started to read code of menulibre this afternoon. It would be great for me to write some Python again
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: Patches are welcome, definitely more bugs exist than I can reasonably fix or manage to look at
<Nairwolf> bluesabre: okay, I will tell you when I will look more seriously code
<Nairwolf> Now, I can't really, but maye in April, I will have more free time. And I will need your help to understand some modules or other things. 
<Nairwolf> See you
<knome> sigh
<knome> either i don't know how to do this right, or a function in php or the launchpad api doesn't work as they should
<knome> >__<
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-26
 * bluesabre believes in knome
<Unit193> So you think it is php or LP API.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything going on?
<bluesabre> Unit193: nothing yet, packaging soon
<bluesabre> Unit193: will have the noto changes done tonight, and catfish
<Unit193> Fantastic!  Great.
<Unit193> bluesabre: You looked at the gnome-software branch?  Useful?
<knome> Unit193, i should install curl for php to find out if it's php that doesn't pass the headers with file_get_contents
<knome> the other possibility is that the LP API isn't returning the ETag in the headers as it should
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, looked, think we're waiting to switch until we think its usable
<bluesabre> or maybe we should switch now so we report more bugs
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> flocculant: ^?
<Unit193> OK, just wondered if I should rm or not. :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: keep it around, will definitely use
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, what about d/xubuntu-default-settings.gsettings-override ?
<Unit193> And unless I'm missing any commits, etc/xdg/xdg-xebian/xfce4/terminal/terminalrc too.
<bluesabre> Unit193: we're not switching the terminal font (I think)
<bluesabre> Dejavu is what we're currently sticking with
<Unit193> Ah, OK.  So not across the board.
<bluesabre> unless I am told otherwise :)
<Unit193> Nono, that's fine.
<bluesabre> *Noto
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> no terminal font change
<flocculant> bluesabre: I guess we should - even if it is a pile of ... 
<flocculant> usc was bad enough 
<Nairwolf> hi, if I want to test isos today, it's better to use the daily iso, right ? 
<knome> beta is released, you can't send reports against it anywya
<Nairwolf> oh, yes, you right. 
<Nairwolf> Thank you
<Nairwolf> In the tracker, in the section "bugs to look" there is a link to the bug #1538877, but the link is dead. This bug number doesn't exist apparently
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1538877 could not be found
<Nairwolf> that's right, ubottu ;)
<flocculant> private bug probably
<Nairwolf> ok, I've reported this one : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/+bug/1533206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1533206 in blueman (Ubuntu) "Blueman-applet crash on login: DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> I'll be around (mostly) for today, so feel free to ping with any questions or general chat
<Nairwolf> I need help, I've seen a graphical/artwork bug in live session with the "wifi network available" notification. 
<Nairwolf> Where I need to report the bug, on launchpad ? xfce4-indicator-plugin ? 
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: yes, that would be a good package to report it for
<bluesabre> if possible, submit a screenshot with your bug report
<Nairwolf> yes, I'm trying to upload it
<Nairwolf> bluesabre: I've typed : "ubuntu-bug xfce4-indicator-plugin" in order to get back some traceback, but how can I save that ? 
<Nairwolf> ok, it opens the launchpad page
<Nairwolf> ok, I've done that : #1550348
<Nairwolf> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/1550348
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550348 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) ""Wifi Network Available" notification truncated" [Undecided,New]
<Nairwolf> oh, I've seen a bug with catfish and thumbnail display
<Nairwolf> It's here if you want to look : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1550356
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1550356 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Thumbnail capability doesn't work" [Undecided,New]
<knome> pleia2, pagination at http://staging.xubuntu.org/blog/
<Nairwolf> bluesabre, I would like to create a question for Menulibre. In fact, it's in order to ask for a new feature, but I don't know how to say that in english. Can I talk to you here to explain ?
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: sure, that's fine, what's up?
<knome> pleia2, mysql root plz :P
<knome> pleia2, or create me a db
<knome> :]
<knome> Unit193, you don't happen to have access to that?
<sidi> you guys aware of the dropbox systray not working anymore, possibly a Ubuntu or Xubuntu bug?
<sidi> got people complaining about it on Reddit but it seems to be distro-dependant (Xubuntu being one confirmed distro)
<knome> wait? are people complaining on *reddit*? that's so new!
<knome> :>
<knome> tbh, i don't think the dropbox indicator is our main problem, but if the redditers can debug, triage and patch it...
<bluesabre> sidi: I've heard mentions of it, not much else... it's almost certainly a missing indicator package or API breakage that the dropbox devs need to address
<Nairwolf> bluesabre: firstly, look this picture : https://i.imgur.com/CBmeegm.png
<Nairwolf> if you want to push up a new launcher, you'll reach the point where you can't see anymore your launcher
<knome> "when moving the launcher up/down, follow the selected item on the list"
<knome> is what you want
<Nairwolf> oh, yes ! perfectly summarized ! 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome is the leading expert of reporting bugs and feature requests for menulibre
 * knome has filed "a few" menulibre bugs...
<bluesabre> :D
<Nairwolf> thank you ;)
<Nairwolf> ok !!
<sidi> knome, bluesabre am waiting to hear from them. i'll test it eventually on my buntu box but i was curious if there had been some triage/patching effort somewhere already
<knome> i think half of them are from me if you don't count crashes
<bluesabre> easily
<Nairwolf> I've opened a "question", is it better to open a bug with [Feature Request] in the title ? 
<pleia2> knome: you have already, sent you /msg
<bluesabre> sidi: strong possibility that one of these is needed and not installed https://paste.ubuntu.com/15206234/
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: I personally prefer a bug report. I often overlook questions on Launchpad
<pleia2> knome: pagination lgtm!
<sidi> bluesabre, cheers
<knome> \o/
<knome> also poking the canonical people to get the DNS redirect done
<Nairwolf> ok
<knome> and pushed a few article drafts to x.org
<bluesabre> knome: busy bee!
<Nairwolf> okay enough testing for me today ! Have a good afternoon or morning, depends your timezone. 
<bluesabre> seeya Nairwolf, have fun
<knome> bluesabre, yep
<bluesabre> cleanup up the dev blueprint a bit
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> s/cleanup/cleaned
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> might be more things to postpone on that list, will tidy a bit more throughout the weekend
<knome> mm
<knome> ugh
<knome> tabs to three different xubuntu wordpress sites open
 * knome closes a few to not mess with production
<bluesabre> :D
<Nairwolf> Do we need to test upgrade ? from LTS to LTS for example ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: we will be
<flocculant> early next week I'll mail the list about what I'd like to see to start with
<flocculant> there are 8 different things we need to test
<flocculant> wandering off again
<Nairwolf> ok, I will waiting your mail ;)
<flocculant> bluesabre: are we really sure about gnome software? wouldn't it be prudent to have a fall back plan if we're going to lose usc regardless? 
<Nairwolf> flocculant: sorry, if my question is stupid. I've found the release schedule, and I've seen that 18th February was the FeatureFreeze. Aren't you supposed to not change packages after this date ? 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: I never really know what exceptions work with freezes - not something I really need to know tbh, but
<flocculant> in this particular case - we use an ubuntu app - ubuntu has decided to not maintain it - they want to replace it with something - the something doesn't work - we're undecided in truth on what to do
<flocculant> also - not sure how FF affects us and our seeded applications
<Nairwolf> ok, I didn't know that ubuntu decided to not maintain it... That's bad. And it seems to be a bad timing to take this decision. I would be better if Ubuntu have decided that before. With non-LTS distribution it would be easier to test the replacement ^^
<Nairwolf> I'm not using a gui application, but what's about lubuntu-software-center ? 
<knome> flocculant, i would say the backup plan is synaptic
<knome> flocculant, but that's just me saying...
<flocculant> knome: well yea - that'd be what I would say too ... 
<Nairwolf> what Ubuntu will use ? gnome-software-center ? 
<flocculant> knome: just not sure how long we can leave it
<flocculant> also - if we released with synaptic - could we change to g-s if it works out later 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: yes
<knome> flocculant, my POV is that we can leave it at least until b2, and for the other question; yes
<knome> i mean there never is any specific reason to keep the current default app if there is something everybody thinks is a better one
<flocculant> knome: that's what I thought
<flocculant> yep
<knome> not that it happens a lot...
<flocculant> it'd be a whole lot simpler if this was a .10 not this one :D
<knome> always
<bluesabre> hey everyone
<bluesabre> flocculant: we're not sure about anything at this point
<bluesabre> if gnome-software is not ready by the 10th, we use something else, be it USC or synaptic
<bluesabre> flocculant: it might be advisable to test all three up to that point
<bluesabre> flocculant: or get a more specific timeline of when gnome-software is expected to be usable
<bluesabre> it's an LTS, it shouldn't be unstable until release day
<bluesabre> (my 2 cents)
<bluesabre> currently, g-s does not work at all, so no reason to switch it yet
<flocculant> bluesabre: 10th? 
<bluesabre> Or 2nd
<bluesabre> Whatever that date was
<flocculant> month? 
<bluesabre> Probably something else
<bluesabre> March
<flocculant> not sure I know what date you mean 
<flocculant> aah ok
<bluesabre> The go gnome or go home date
<flocculant> aah - the date from the last meeting of ours :)
<flocculant> round about UI freeze I guess
<flocculant> <bluesabre> maybe March 7 would be a good milestone 
<flocculant> as far as testing synaptic goes - I use it a lot so 
<flocculant> ...
<flocculant> should the appstream issue get on the tracker? 
<flocculant> don't want to add things to it for other people :)
<bluesabre> yes, I should add that
<bluesabre> flocculant: added
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> I'm wandering off again now
<bluesabre> flocculant: seeya, have fun
<flocculant> done little today \o/
<flocculant> this beta was a pain :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: just fyi - shall get a mail out next week to testers about upgrades
<knome> synaptic has the additional benefit that we've used it as the default package manager before
<knome> and aiui, it hasn't really changed much since then...
<bluesabre> for better or worse, synaptic is just as ugly as I remember it
<bluesabre> pure utility
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> yep
<knome> a tool
<knome> :P :P
<bluesabre> how's it going, knome?
<knome> not bad!
<Nairwolf> I'm afraid it could be seens as a regression... I've converted some non-tech users to Xubuntu (mother, brother), and they loved USC because it's something new from Windows world. And they are used to use the Android store, or the Apple store. Synaptic can be used the same, but it looks, yes, less modern....
<bluesabre> too bad it is a direct port to gtk3, they left all of the broken ui things as they were and ported them to new widgets
<Nairwolf> But I know that if you don't have any better solution....
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: yes, USC is better for discovery... we're hoping Gnome Software will get that good, otherwise we'll probably be going with Synaptic
<bluesabre> time will tell
<bluesabre> we're just trying to be ready for whatever we have to do :)
<Nairwolf> yes, I will be ready to test anything you ask ;)
<Nairwolf> Do you know why the ubuntu team want to drop support of USC ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, the discussion can be found on the ubuntu development mailing list
<Nairwolf> I don't use it regurlaly because I'm an "apt-user" but it seems to work fine
<Nairwolf> ok, I will see that
<Nairwolf> knome: it was at ubuntu-devel ml ? 
<Nairwolf> which month ? 
<knome> i don't remember, but it's fairly recent and you can surely find out
<Nairwolf> ok, I will try to find it ;)
<Nairwolf> hum... I don't find it, I quit.
<Nairwolf> ok, it was at ubuntu-devel ;)
<Nairwolf> no, ubuntu-desktop !
<knome> can somebody confirm that the xubuntu release announcement seems to come from the "Ubuntu Release blog" in http://planet.ubuntu.com/ ?
<knome> the date is also wrong, but that's likely our mistake...
<knome> s/likely//
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-27
<bluesabre> knome: confirmed
<bluesabre> knome: but I think that's related to how planet is configured
<bluesabre> knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu#Adding_Your_Blog
<knome> bluesabre, but the link points to the xubuntu site, and it has worked before
 * bluesabre shrugs
<bluesabre> just a thought, nothing more
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> o.O
<knome> http://release-blog.ubuntu.com/?feed=rss2
<knome> see what happens when you access that url.
<bluesabre> knome: looks fine to me
<knome> not
<knome> see the location
<bluesabre> oh
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> I see....
<knome> pointed this out to the IS
<knome> and i got the http request to work
<bluesabre> release-blog goes to xubuntu.org
<knome> yes
<knome> the IS vanguard is working on it :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> going out to get some food, bbabl
<knome> bon appetit
<knome> ...oh
<knome> launchpad isn't giving us etag results for the stuff we're requesting in the http headers
<knome> only in the json
<knome> that's why they never match
<sidi> Having some fun with Firejail. http://sidi.mupuf.org/files/xfce-workspace-sandbox.ogv
<sidi> There's a Wily/Vivid PPA for the curious ones among you at https://code.launchpad.net/~ucl-cs-study-devs/+archive/ubuntu/multitasking-study. Needless to say, use at your own risk.
<sidi> http://i.imgur.com/YfZS9SC.png is the list of options :]
<sidi> Feedback is welcome, though at this stage this is alpha, and I will not attempt to merge it into any project whatsoever.
<bluesabre> sidi: neat!
<flocculant> !team | anyone awake? 
<ubottu> anyone awake?: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<dkessel> hey flocculant !
<flocculant> dkessel: morning - you're just the man :)
<flocculant> you got a minute to read a short draft for me? 
<dkessel> flocculant: sure
<flocculant> dk@ubuntu.com? 
<flocculant> dkessel: ^^ 
<flocculant> sent to what I assume is your ubuntu address
<dkessel> I think it is good. It emphasizes exactly what is needed
<flocculant> cheers Daniel - I'll send it now then :)
<dkessel> np :)
<flocculant> this is going to be painful ... 
<bluesabre> morning
<dkessel> hello bluesabre :)
<Nairwolf> hi flocculant, I've read your mail. I should able to make the two tests for amd64 with hardware
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<flocculant> Nairwolf: thanks :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant , dkessel, Nairwolf
<flocculant> bluesabre: how's Saturday - I guess really early :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: very early indeed
<flocculant> oh good lord :|
<bluesabre> my first "morning" was immediately followed by being dragged back to bed because it was too early
<flocculant> downloaded what I thought was 14.04.4 - seems I need 400Mb of updates :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha 
<Nairwolf> I have on my working computer an image of xubuntu 14.04.1. Don't you think it's important to test this upgrade also ? 
<bluesabre> Nairwolf: if its a machine you depend on, I'd recommend not testing upgrades on it at this time
<flocculant> bluesabre: why in the world would a mirror keep 14.04,.1,.2,.3 as well as having something that's actually up to date :|
<Nairwolf> bluesabre: yes, I wouldn't do it directly. I think I will firstly clone my system in a "test-computer"
<bluesabre> flocculant: posterity?
<flocculant> Nairwolf: how do you have .1 ?
 * flocculant makes sure to zsync the right one for 64 bit ... 
<flocculant> ha - it's only 60% wrong then :p
<flocculant> glad I have FFTH ... 
<Nairwolf> flocculant: I've installed xubuntu when 14.04.1 was the most recent version of the LTS
<Nairwolf> Something like August 2014
<flocculant> yea - but not upgraded since then?
<Nairwolf> I'm still with linux 3.13 and I've heard on 14.04.4 the kernel version is higher
<Nairwolf> no, I wanted to stay on a LTS version
<flocculant> upgrading packages ... 
<flocculant> anyway - whatever - as far as the mails goes - I'm after 14.04.4 to 16.04 upgrades
<flocculant> so - vm if necessary
<Nairwolf> what do you mean by "upgrading packages" ? I'm running "sudo apt install && dist-upgrade" everyday
<flocculant> that'll get you 14.04.4 with the old kernel
<flocculant> trying the upgrade with the HWE stack (I hope)
<flocculant> that's a good start ... 
<flocculant> won't authenticate a package - with continue? in the title - no option to continue :p
<bluesabre> oh nice
<flocculant> module-init-tools
<flocculant> moving on to 15.10 :p
<flocculant> which at least got further
<knome> 16:54 notice < queuebot:#ubuntu-release: New binary: lxpanel [i386] (xenial-proposed/universe) [0.8.2-1ubuntu1] (lubuntu, ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
<knome> wut? lxpanel and xubuntu?
<flocculant> nice
<bluesabre> knome: its because lxpanel plugins are built from xfce4-power-manager
<knome> aha
<cm2> bluesabre: but why does that imply that lxpanel needs to be in xubuntu?
<flocculant> 15.10 upgraded to 16.04 \o/
<flocculant> half way through today's 
<knome> :)
<flocculant> I'd like to be able to at least give our testers some pointers :)
<flocculant> like - try that - confirm the fail please :p
<flocculant> knome: btw #bbbbbb appears to be ok after a few days 
<mikodo> Hi. Just trying to learn. Not doing the testing now. On the daily digest now from flocculant "Subject: Xenial Upgrade Testing week" states if one can use  hardware for release-upgrade it would be preferred.. Question: If one has an usb install with "persistence" for testing, like with mkusb, could that be used for testing and reporting?
<flocculant> mikodo: to be completely honest - I'm not at all sure whether you can or can't
<mikodo> Okay, I'll guess I find out in the future. Thanks.
<flocculant> I would hazard a guess that if you *could* and it had bugs doing so - then the bugs would get marked invalid - they're probably more likely to care about hardware or vm upgrades
<mikodo> Sorry, I don't understand. Does ^^ that mean it would most likely not be helpful?
<flocculant> yea - or at least that's how I would see it logically 
<flocculant> we aren't the ones who'd fix upgrade fails - canonical people would
<flocculant> so I can't really see them being overly bothered about a persisent usb install
<mikodo> flocculant, Okay
<flocculant> that's not to say that I'm right of course :)
<mikodo> :)
<flocculant> :)
<mikodo> flocculant, Can I bother you for one more question. Would the persistent usb install of testing images generally be helpful for other testing other than this do you think?
<flocculant> mikodo: it's not something that I've given a great deal of thought to up to now
<mikodo> flocculant, I think I will ask that to sudodus the author or mkusb. Thanks1
<flocculant> and it's never a bother either :)
<mikodo> author of ...
<flocculant> mikodo: just so you know - hot off the press and all that - trusty to xenial upgrades are failing, wily to xenial are passing
<mikodo> Yea, I was getting that impression from reading the digest notes, you sent or, something like that was happening
<flocculant> well - we didn't test for the trusty point release at all - so this is catch up :)
<flocculant> but the one failing was doing so a while back when I looked
<mikodo> I just started reading the digest this week, but I new their was not the degree of testing done this release as before
<mikodo> Man my spelling sucks if I don't read what I typed! Thanks.
<flocculant> testing has been quiet since the testing done for Trusty 
<pleia2> hey, people pay attention to us http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-16-04-lts-probably-won-t-come-with-a-default-media-manager-installed-501067.shtml
<pleia2> social media-ing the upgrade testing stuff
<flocculant> nice and also thanks :)
<mikodo> 'Tis on the Xubuntu wiki right?
<flocculant> mikodo: that is yea 
<mikodo> I understand, getting the word out. Thanks!
<pleia2> flocculant: btw, if you could always provide a link to the iso tracker in these emails, it would help :) (if someone sees a tweet for the first time, what's an iso tracker?)
<pleia2> for fb and G+ I manually add it in the text, twitter has not enough characters
<flocculant> pleia2: yep ok 
<flocculant> I guess that this one I'd mentally aimed at people who normally test for us :) 
<mikodo> ^^ +1 I was wondering about that but, thought I would figure it out when the time came for me to test.
<flocculant> mikodo: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<mikodo> Thanks, I'll have a look. :)
<flocculant> I've just mailed the direct links to our stuff
<flocculant> postifx is failing to update in xenial today too :)
<pleia2> https://skitterman.wordpress.com/2016/02/26/postfix-3-0-woes/
<pleia2> so, yeah
<flocculant> aaah - it'll catch up then 
<flocculant> not even sure what postfix is and why I need it - or indeed why I need it updating :D
<pleia2> mailserver, it's used by default to send local messages to users on the system
<pleia2> error logs go to root, etc, that weird "You have mail." when you log in :)
<flocculant> right - so not something I'd want really
<flocculant> wonder why I have it :)
<pleia2> it's important for those who use it
<flocculant> yea of course - I understand that - now I have more idea what it is :p
<pleia2> I have a cold, so I'm going back to bed now
<pleia2> have fun
<flocculant> oh dear :(
<jjfrv8> flocculant, confirmed the trusty upgrade bug. Working on xenial.
<flocculant> jjfrv8: cool - thanks :)
<flocculant> nice to know it's not just local
<bluesabre> cm2: that doesn't mean it's in xubuntu, but rather that it is in the xubuntu packageset (and therefore able to be uploaded by us)
<mikodo> re: mkusb https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb  See responses following my question on using it for testing: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1958073&page=35&p=13447113#post13447113
<mikodo> actully just before my link response to the questions.
<mikodo>  "Actually the responses just before my linked to response to the answers.
<flocculant> so - that implies I was right then :)
<mikodo> flocculant, Yes, that is correct! :)
<cm2> bluesabre: ah. i see. thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-28
<dkessel> ok, so module-init-tools still fails to authenticate ;)
<flocculant> yep
<dkessel> setting up snapshots to be able to verify the fix in all the upgrade scenarios when it is there
<flocculant> it's definitely not the 'transient network issue' the error message alludes to :p
<flocculant> I'll be just redoing them - hardware tests
<flocculant> knome: the blocked thing was done - I forgot that I/we did that ... 
<knome> flocculant, lol
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I assume you had the mail - but update to cont-docs hanging around - guess that could go live when the 'user' bit does
<knome> yes, i'll check that later today when i get back home
<knome> we're just leaving
<flocculant> have a good day :)
<knome> ta ta, will at least try to
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<phillw> hiyas good people, having had a quick listen in on software center, Jorn did a change a while back (#177) https://code.launchpad.net/~lubuntu-software-center-team/lubuntu-software-center/lubuntu-software-center-trunk so it is flavour neutral. There was a bit of concern that you guys and galls would have to fork it and  maintain it. That is not the case. Lubuntu will look after it. I've just pinged our head of dev to ask that patch be added soon :
<phillw> If you decide not to use it, that's fine. I just want you to know it is an option for you guys :)
<phillw> knome: :-*we don't forget, it just takes a while :D
<phillw> hi Noskcaj :)
<dkessel> flocculant: was a little bit unsure if the bug is in the testcase or in the software - bug 1550927
<ubottu> bug 1550927 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Wrong update prompt after wily to xenial upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550927
<dkessel> i was unsure because, to me, it makes more sense to still be Prompt=normal  after the upgrade, although the testcase insists on the opposite. but i guess one can argue on or the other way on the behaviour
<flocculant> probably the testcase
<dkessel> so nobody else really has those video playback issues in xenial?
<dkessel> in both vlc and parole...
<bluesabre> dkessel: what problems, can probably help
<dkessel> well... some videos cannot be played at all. resulting in green (vlc) or black (parole) screen, but nothing else. also, vlc manages to play the audio, but parole cannot...
<dkessel> bluesabre: ^
<dkessel> mkv with h264 video, ac3 audio in this case
<slickymaster> knome, been on the road all past week
<slickymaster> just got home yesterday night
<slickymaster> will start to work on the installer this week
<slickymaster> also, it's now over a month past https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-January/011005.html
<slickymaster> so we should start to think about doing something even though no one cares about it
<dkessel> oh, it sounds good! maybe i should have responded
<slickymaster> yes, do it please, dkessel 
<flocculant> dkessel: parole set it not use clutter - haven't a clue about vlc as I never use it 
<dkessel> flocculant: doesn't work. any other packages involved?
<flocculant> slickymaster: on the other hand - why worry about other flavours?
<flocculant> x windows (no xv) doesn't work? 
<flocculant> dkessel: ^^
<dkessel> flocculant: nope
<dkessel> and i've seen this video play before :p
<dkessel> and thunar can create a thumbnail of it
<flocculant> well - it works here :)
<slickymaster> it's something that has an impact on all flavors flocculant 
<flocculant> slickymaster: no
<slickymaster> how come?
<flocculant> if other flavours aren't interested - then just worry about xubuntu
<slickymaster> oh, on that you're right
<flocculant> dkessel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15231175/
<slickymaster> yeah, I do agree with you
<flocculant> and I've got ffmpeg
<flocculant> slickymaster: so basically what I'm saying is *shrug* just like they are :)
<slickymaster> yes
<dkessel> well, switching to ubuntu trusty for that video :p
<dkessel> ...and that just works
<flocculant> slickymaster: on a more interesting note - what's the plan with our slideshow :)
<slickymaster> apparentlyknome has already move it
<flocculant> dkessel: just ftr - installed vlc - plays mkv fine 
<flocculant> slickymaster: moved it?
<slickymaster> lp:~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604 is now the working branch
<flocculant> oh right I see
<slickymaster> our docs branch is about 140 MB, with it
<slickymaster> I'm planning on start working on it this week
<slickymaster> that and removing all the gmb references from the docs
<flocculant> slickymaster: fyi - fop upgraded - still no pdf's
<slickymaster> hmmm does krytarik has any ideas about it?
<flocculant> no idea - knome was going to look - apparently a different issue now
<slickymaster> are you thinking in anything in particular, re. the slideshow?
<flocculant> nope
<slickymaster> ok
<flocculant> just interested :)
<slickymaster> I'll ping you throughout the week
<slickymaster> to be honest I'm still half asleep
<slickymaster> arrived yesterady at 3:30 AM
<slickymaster> * yesterday
<flocculant> yea I saw :)
<knome> flocculant, oh oops. yeah, fop..
<knome> slickymaster, haven't thought much about the slideshow apart from the artwork side
<knome> slickymaster, but one option is to go more "look, we have a website! look!"
<knome> slickymaster, and then also highlighting the community
<knome> slickymaster, if/when we do the wallpaper contest, results from that maybe (we discussed about that 2 years ago)
<flocculant> knome: ha ha - I win that one :p
<knome> flocculant, have you looked at lubuntu-software-center at some point?
<Unit193> Considering the track record, upload history?
<knome> Unit193, miss.
<knome> Unit193, or in other words, explain :P
<flocculant> knome: long time ago
<knome> i think it would be worth looking at
<knome> just because it's gtk and it supposedly works for lubuntu ;)
<knome> also if you read the backlog, you'll notice that they are open to renaming it too
<Unit193> "supposedly"
<knome> well, i haven't heard horror stories of people using lubuntu who can't get their package manager to work
<flocculant> bug 1497756 is still there
<ubottu> bug 1497756 in lubuntu-software-center (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu-software-center purge leaves database file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497756
<flocculant> if we went that way - and people installing xubuntu then decided to remove it - leaving behind a file doesn't enamour me to it
<flocculant> 'large' is not what I would call the size of the file though (84Mb here) - I've got larger flac's
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> It'd be so easy to fix too. :/
<flocculant> it was 
<flocculant> ... 
<Unit193> I mean in the packaging.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I knew that 
<flocculant> anyway - so yes it has the repos in it (but I doubt that gs won't for long) and looks much of a muchness to usc and gs
<flocculant> but frankly I would rather - if we have to change - change to gs given that Ubuntu will want to keep it working for longer than we would
<flocculant> with the 5 year support cycle
<flocculant> as far as gs goes - we need to try and get some sense of what's going on with making it work from them somehow
<flocculant> bluesabre wanted us to be in a position to make decision by week tomorrow iirc
<knome> of course if the bug(s) were fixed in lsc...
<flocculant> regardless - I would rather use something with ubuntu behind it
<knome> yep, that's never a bad thing
<knome> ...unless it gets messy and installs half of gnome or unity :D
<flocculant> well yea - but it doesn't seem to do so :)
<knome> yet
<knome> ;)=
<flocculant> we should ramble on about this on wednesday more I think
<knome> do you mean thursday?
<flocculant> of course I do :p
<knome> yep
<flocculant> I should be there - might be late
<knome> i should be there until i figure something more interesting to do
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> talking of which
<flocculant> time to do a zebedee here :)
<flocculant> night all 
<knome> nighty!
<knome> flexiondotorg, hey! phillw was asking me about our decision to not support the pi images (https://ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker.org/)
<flexiondotorg> knome, OK
<knome> flexiondotorg, that led me to ask the question: why are the ISOs built to begin with since we said that we don't want to support?
<flexiondotorg> Because people wanted them.
<knome> without any explanation for the no, it feels a bit weird that we are listed there
<flexiondotorg> Would you like them removed? Or would you like an explanation added the none on the Xubuntu core team have a Pi and are therefore unable to support them?
<knome> we have a team meeting on thursday, and we could talk about this too
<knome> i'm not in the position to choose this or that, but if the image is listed there, i personally would appreciate a note
<flexiondotorg> knome, I'll add one.
<knome> sth along the lines that it's an unofficial community build at minimum
<knome> thanks
<knome> let's figure out the best way for both
<knome> i'll get back to you again after our meeting :)
<knome> (or you can follow it on this very channel :P)
<Unit193> Community spins are generally acceptable, though usually best to stick as close as one can to actual ISOs and no personal preferences changed (Source: I do community spins.)
<knome> and considering that the flavour maker project supports the hardware, maybe a yellow no would be more appropriate
<knome> Unit193, and note that they are unofficial community builds.
<Unit193> (I think I note that, at least. >_> )
<knome> Unit193, ...as you know and do
<Unit193> Which, core is getting massive too...
<knome> mm.
<Unit193> 596M â 729M?  Yeeeah...
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<knome> bluesabre, you haven't reacted to my question about the media manager article series yet
<knome> bluesabre, which is: what do you cloud player users want to say? :P
<bluesabre> knome: hadn't seen a question :)
<bluesabre> knome: maybe advertise cloud players that have some integration with ubuntu (sound indicator, notifications) or that are available in multiple countries, etc
<bluesabre> with those, there may have to be some caution with the use of trademarks
<knome> yeah...
<knome> would you like to cooperate writing that one, or delegate the cooperation to somebody else on the cloud list
<bluesabre> knome: there's also the trouble of package support. For Spotify to work, you have to grab a package that is no longer shipped in Ubuntu, etc
<bluesabre> knome: I can certainly help with it
<knome> but you can use play.spotify.com
<knome> so maybe that's one of the aspects to mention
<bluesabre> true
<knome> let's coordinate the writing at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud
<bluesabre> knome: I probably don't have a lot of time to contribute to this in the next few hours, but guessing this is something we're working on for closer to release time?
<knome> it looks like we will have four articles:
<knome> - gmb
<knome> - clementine
<knome> - cloud
<knome> - "others"
<knome> so if we want to lead this to the release and release one article per week, the deadline is in about a month for the first one
<knome> and we can do gmb/clementine first
<knome> so not a huge rush, as long as we don't end up in the situation that we need to hastily put this together :D
<Unit193> pithos has some indicator support, IIRC.
<knome> Unit193, plz add in the pad
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, pithos has indicator support and notifications
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-20
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r634 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<flocculant> ali1234: yup - crashed that time
<eladhen> Well,I'm running Xubuntu 17.04 with a bunch of development PPAs for several days now. Anything specific I should test?
<eladhen> All in all, things seem to be working fine...
<eladhen> I'm using: xubuntu-dev-ubuntu-ppa-zesty, xubuntu-dev-ubuntu-xfce4-gtk3-zesty, xubuntu-dev-ubuntu-xubuntu-staging-zesty
<pleia2> flocculant: social media-ed the call for testing
<pleia2> flocculant: something to consider, just adding this line to all your call for testing emails would make this easier for me: New to testing? Learn the basics about how to contribute at http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-tester.html
<pleia2> since all the social media calls go to people new to it, so reading the email about it telling them to use the tracker mean nothing to them :)
 * pleia2 squeezes both links in under 140 characters
<flocculant> pleia2: how about I come up with some copypasta thing that can be used all the time? 
<flocculant> if I can ... 
<flocculant> pleia2: and thanks <3/lastlog <3
<pleia2> sounds good :)
<flocculant> where did lastlog come from ...
<flocculant> pleia2: how do urls count in a tweet? 
<pleia2> twitter automatically shortens them, but not a ton
<flocculant> ok
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [blackbird] r88 Merge pull request #21 from nkiesel/master... (by Eric Koegel)
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi and anyone else interested : robert_ancell> flocculant, no, but I'm trying to get it fixed by the end of the week as I'll be on holiday for two weeks after that
<knome> uff :)
<flocculant> leaving 2 weeks till final beta
<knome> yeah
<knome> well
<knome> real life happens
<flocculant> yup of course
<flocculant> just might need to have an emergency plan planned :p
<knome> any suggestions?
<flocculant> jjfrv8: you can lock and come out of lock? 
<knome> like houdini?
<knome> please?
<flocculant> knome: swap it out - same emergency plan as last cycle iirc
<slickymaster> and for that matter ali1234 issues don't appear in VMware
<knome> yeah, we only have ali1234 issues on irc
<knome> O;)
<slickymaster> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-21
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks, hopefully we'll get lucky with that
<jjfrv8> flocculant, since you asked, I tried it again... and again. The first three or four times, it locked and came out okay.
<jjfrv8> but eventually it would fail to come out.  Tried it dozens of times and maybe 20% of time it fails.
<jjfrv8> Thunar being open was the worst. LO was the best.
<jjfrv8> I edited my testcase results.
<flocculant> jjfrv8: ok - thanks - I'm not sure what's going on there - but it fails 100% here, on vm's, on other hardware installs
<flocculant> knome: thanks - not completely sure about where the bold is on "Your processor needs to support PAE in order to run Xubuntu." though 
<ali1234> i noticed a funny thing in the installer slides
<ali1234> there's a bit that says something like "you can join to forums or (if you are still here) irc"
<ali1234> i don't understand what the "if you are still here" bit is supposed to mean
<flocculant> ali1234: I'd guess it means the forum later, if you are still installing you can irc 'here' pretty sure 'here' being a webchat to #x-offtopic or #x
<ali1234> it's not a link
<ali1234> i found it
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/vivid/view/head:/slideshows/xubuntu/slides/06_thanks.html
<ali1234> in +1 that slide is different
<ali1234> it says something like "...mailing list</a> or (if you are still here) on the <em>#xubuntu-offtopic</em> IRC channel.</p>"
<ali1234> i don't understand why that extra little bit was added
<ali1234> bbiab
<flocculant> ali1234: not sure why, but I suspect pointing people at -offtopic if they do want to chat while it's installing. iirc it originally pointed to #xubuntu
<flocculant> also http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/files/head:/slideshows/xubuntu/slides/ is yakkety - what you see on the +1 installer
<ali1234> no i understand what it is saying. the substance has not changed at all
<ali1234> i just don't understand why specifically the words "if you are still here" were inserted
<ali1234> like, where am i going?
<flocculant> no idea why :)
<flocculant> yea I understand your point 
<ali1234> just seems weird and awkward to me *shrug*
<flocculant> ali1234: I think we'll be looking at the slideshow soon - suggest changes 
<flocculant> someone else English suggesting things will cheer me up - and I need cheering up at the moment
<flocculant> bluesabre: re lock, seems that sometimes it unlocks - I admit I didn't sit there trying and trying - twice was my limit - should have had a couple more tries
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1656399/comments/26
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1656399 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Unable to unlock session after suspend using lightdm-gtk-greeter." [Critical,In progress]
<flocculant> so I'm a bit less inclined towards refusing to mark it ready this time ;)
<knome> flocculant, probably missing... :)
<flocculant> knome: no - there is some - just seems a bit odd to me :)
<flocculant> as always ... 
<knome> right
<knome> i think it's as it was before
<flocculant> ok - probably, likely I looked and saw straight through it
<flocculant> perhaps include emphasis on support in "Your processor needs to support PAE in order to run Xubuntu."
<knome> yeah, maybe
<knome> i'll do that in a bit
<flocculant> well I can - didn't want to jfdi
<knome> go ahead
<flocculant> you and your glib assumption I'll be able to login ...
<flocculant> and mine ...
<knome> that's your headache :P :P
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> done
<knome> goodie
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-mount-plugin 1.1.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-mount-plugin-1-1-2-released-tp48915.html (by Fabian Nowak)
<flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks - I tried myself - unlocked eventually, as far as I'm concerned - if it takes more than 1 go to unlock that's fail -updated your testcase result
<Unit193> bluesabre: I don't suppose you'd lower gstreamer1.0-tools to suggests in mugshot?
<Unit193> Whoop, did nobody bump xubuntu-artwork?
<Unit193> !info plymouth-theme-xubuntu-text zesty
<ubottu> plymouth-theme-xubuntu-text (source: xubuntu-artwork): graphical boot animation and logger - xubuntu-text theme. In component universe, is optional. Version 16.10.1 (zesty), package size 4 kB, installed size 28 kB
<slickymaster> there you go, flocculant 
<slickymaster> https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-manual-tests/1666694/+merge/317920
<slickymaster> thanks for updating it
<flocculant> slickymaster: thanks - want to get that live asap
<slickymaster> figured as much
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> that's why I review it now
<slickymaster> I'll be travelling (again) to Lisbon tomorrow, until friday
<flocculant> nice ... 
<flocculant> slickymaster: thanks for that - all done now :)
<slickymaster> :)
<flocculant> which package would cause this bug 1666693
<ubottu> bug 1666693 in lubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "gnome-disks shows three icons in menu of lxpanel " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666693
<flocculant> cos unless we have lubuntu-default-settings it's not that ;)
<flocculant> would it just be gnome-disk-whatever-it's called
<bluesabre> Unit193, we could potentially do that, and then include it in desktop if we still want the camera to work
<flocculant> evening bluesabre :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: seen the latest lock talk? 
<flocculant> or is that in my head and on the bug ... 
<wxl> flocculant: is that bug also affecting gnome/mate/kylin, i assume?
<flocculant> wxl: didn't test them
<flocculant> I didn't ...
<flocculant> actually that might be a lie - I think I would probably have tested mate - but not seen it occur
<flocculant> definitely wouldn't have tested kylin
<flocculant> and gnome would have been how I felt when I was looking :p
<wxl> flexiondotorg: you checked your lock situation recently?
<flocculant> I think he is away - hence no responses re b1
<wxl> bah
<flocculant> (saw mention on #u-desktop)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<bluesabre> flocculant, the latest talk as in: doesn't always fail, so not quite as bothered, and robert thinks its a race condition related to logind ?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> time to toddle off now 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-22
<bluesabre> flocculant, robert uploaded a new lightdm that resolves the issue for him
<Unit193> bluesabre: Have you filed the thunar SRU yet? ;3
<bluesabre> Unit193, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1512120
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512120 in thunar (Ubuntu Yakkety) "[SRU] thunar crashes on file renaming" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> yakkety uploaded a bit ago
<bluesabre> working on xenial now
<Unit193> Sweet, thanks.
<bluesabre> np :)
<Unit193> I wondered if we'd want to FFe notifyd, but...
<knome> when was FF?
<bluesabre> last week
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> I'm not opposed to it
<knome> me neither; we're far from an LTS, so we should have some wiggle room
<knome> though you should ask QA too
<Unit193> Well, I'm not in charge of any answers so suits me. :D
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> time to go to bed
<knome> ttyl
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<bluesabre> was going to test thunar in xenial, but apparently xenial doesn't like kvm
<flocculant> bluesabre: xenial liked kvm for me for a whole cycle ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: re lightdm - grabbed from -proposed. From Lock not managed to break it there. From Suspend, if I'm a bit quick then I get knocked back to unlock from desktop but second try works
<flocculant> will report that on bug for Robert
<flocculant> bluesabre: re xenial - I'll update my hardware jobby and get thunar there and do all the mad back and forth stuff I did when testing the patches
<flocculant> once I see the verification- tags show up
<flocculant> bug 1666803
<ubottu> bug 1666803 in Light Display Manager "Password required twice returning from suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666803
<flocculant> qa likes notifyd changes ... 
<Unit193> bluesabre: â Figured he'd been testing it from xfce4-gtk3 too. :D
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> morning Unit193 
<Unit193> Howdy.
<flocculant> that was a busy start to my day ... 
<flocculant> locking and unlocking repeatedly ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: in Settings in menu I currently see 3 entries for Disks - that's been reported on bug 1666693, so it's obviously not l-d-s - what is the likely suspect? gnome-disk-utility itself? I kind of assume so ...
<ubottu> bug 1666693 in lubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "gnome-disks shows three icons in menu of lxpanel " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666693
<bluesabre> flocculant, gnome-disk-utility seems to be at fault, commented on bug
<bluesabre> flocculant, suspending with lock is kind of a pain... I wonder if there is something more we can do on the xfce side to make that a bit more secure/reliable
<bluesabre> flocculant, since you're a fan of the notifyd changes, and none of us seem to be against them, we can probably start working on the FFe to get that in
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke to all that - re suspend with lock, if I let the login screen settle down it unlocks fine
<flocculant> also 
<flocculant> of course - I am suspend - reboot - unlock - suspend - reboot - unlock
<flocculant> with no patience - which is unlikely to be normal behaviour :)
<flocculant> will respin our images later to get lightdm
<bluesabre> flocculant, great, thanks!
<flocculant> doing now - package available - will mail testers later
<flocculant> bluesabre: so yea just quickly - I think the suspend thing for me - is I'm rapidly testing it 
<flocculant> not that it should be a problem - but unlikely anyone would do that in normal life I guess
<bluesabre> yeah, it seems like a less common use case
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I'll hassle jbicha re Disks when I see him about later :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: just fyi - my seeing double password from suspend appears to depend on nouveau - nvidia 'appears' slower and I can't seem to break it
<ali1234> double password?
<flocculant> ali1234: unlock from suspend = see desktop - flung back to unlock screen
<ali1234> ah that
<flocculant> yea
<ali1234> i think the lock screen is shown on another vt
<flocculant> another cycle - another lock issue
<ali1234> so it has to switch - after unsuspend
<flocculant> vt8 iirc
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> lightdm handles it all iirc
<flocculant> yea
<ali1234> so nouveau has KMS which means it can switch between VTs and the console without resolution switch
<flocculant> part of an ongoing conversation since pre-beta yakkety - which stopped while it worked for a bit - then started again a few weeks ago - when it stopped unlocking again
<wxl> flocculant: have you guys had any problem with oem mode?
<ali1234> the proprietary driver does not have KMS so when it switches between VTs it changes the screen mode, which takes longer to process, so the picture disappears for longer and you dont see what it is really doing
<flocculant> wxl: no - when I've tested it - it works as expected
<flocculant> wxl and changed package in the 3 Disks bug
<knome> we've just begun testing/looking into it seriously otoh
<knome> sauna, bbl
<flocculant> knome: yea
<wxl> flocculant: great thanks. re: oem we've got this http://launchpad.net/bugs/1638473
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1638473 in oem-config (Ubuntu) "Blank screen after running oem-config" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flocculant> wxl I've definitely looked in the last week
<flocculant> ali1234: right
<wxl> flocculant: in kvm?
<flocculant> wxl: yea
<wxl> flocculant: might be vbox specific
<flocculant> not tried on hardware - not got vbox anymore - kvm works ok
<flocculant> second drive to hospital - back later
<ochosi> flocculant: so the unlock bug has been resolved in lightdm..?
<ochosi> or did i misinterpret the update on the report
<flocculant> ochosi: pretty much sorted yep :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: That did not work.
<Unit193> ls -1 ~
<Unit193> Plain Text.txt
<Unit193> OpenDocument Spreadsheet.ods
<Unit193> OpenDocument Text.odt
<flocculant> ochosi: I think I might revisit that testing of gtk3 settings manager in a vanilla install here
<flocculant> I'm rather lost about what I've got that was gtk2 and is now gtk3 and what I've got because I built it locally and/or ppa
<bluesabre> Unit193, oh no
<flocculant> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> flocculant, hiya
<bluesabre> Unit193, will take a look tonight... shoulda worked though :\
<flocculant> bluesabre: nicely we have all green on the tracker
<flocculant> hope to get enought time to sort the release note out a bit more before tomorrow evening
<Unit193> bluesabre: :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-23
<bluesabre> Unit193, at the very least, it works live
<bluesabre> (pretty sure it works installed too)
<bluesabre> or do you have an alternate ~/Templates?
<Unit193> Shouldn't.
<Unit193> It worked fine on another, hmm.
<Unit193> I'll check the other-other later.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> worked on my vm install, so I'm not entirely crazy
<bluesabre> possible that it just needs to run on a delay in case xdg-user-dirs hasn't done it's job yet
<knome> crrrrraaaazyy
<bluesabre> hi knome
<knome> hullo bluesabre 
<Unit193> knome: Yeah we know you are.
<knome> indeed (:
<bluesabre> b1 tomorrow, so time to start reminding you about this cycle's wallpaper refresh :)
<knome> yes
<knome> i reminded myself about it some time ago
<bluesabre> yay
<knome> technically, i need to finish it next week
<bluesabre> right
<knome> because the week after that will be busy
<knome> (for me)
<bluesabre> busy knome
<knome> hmm.
<knome> is there any way to change the starting day of the week on the orage popup without installing orage?
<bluesabre> figured that would be some localization setting
<bluesabre> no idea though
<knome> i don't think so
<knome> i have the same locale as before the reinstall, and now the starting day is sunday
<knome> which freaks me off
<knome> doesn't seem to be an orage option either
<bluesabre> guessing you've never configured it before (or since 2011), might be a bug somewhere down the line
<knome> yeah, not since 2011
<bluesabre> knome, looks like LC_TIME is the var you want
<knome> yes, but that's already set at en_GB.UTF-8, which gave me the right result before
<bluesabre> and thats what google turned up for me
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> knome, http://askubuntu.com/a/214524 maybe?
<knome> yeah, but the locale file already says first_weekday 2
<knome> (:
<bluesabre> wellllllllllllllp
<knome> indeed
<bluesabre> maybe try asking in #xubuntu
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> this is the fun you sign up when reinstalling!
<knome> +for
<knome> which is why i didn't do it for five years
<knome> and this isn't the first thing which is like "well... that didn't work OOTB, let me quickly fix"
<knome> then 30 minutes later "ergghh" and sweatting ;)
<bluesabre> spicy food does that to you
<knome> nope.
<knome> that's 15 minutes later 
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Run  lightdm-gtk-greeter --help  tell me what you see?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Saw that when looking for something like lightdm's --show-config
<bluesabre> Unit193, 01_ubuntu, 30_xubuntu, 01_ubuntu, 30_xubuntu, etc/...
<Unit193> Isn't that odd?
<bluesabre> yes, I think so
<bluesabre> but it works... so back under the rug it goes for now :D
<Unit193> Hah.  But, look at  lightdm --show-config  !
<bluesabre> indeed, not entirely sure what it all means, but duplication there means the bug might just lie in lightdm
<bluesabre> or maybe thats a new standard... check everything twice to be sure
<Unit193> Nono, I mean that's a awesome switch, lightdm-gtk-greeter needs it!
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> feel free to file a feature request bug for that
<Unit193> Yeeeah. :/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Be aware of https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/network-manager/+git/network-manager/+merge/318031 - LP 997200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 997200 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Add NetworkManager connectivity config package" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997200
<Unit193> FWIW: -1
<Unit193> bluesabre: OK, so looks like Templates got rm'd, thus when the xdg script ran it set XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/" so that's less than ideal...
<bluesabre> Unit193, indeed, that could be improved
<bluesabre> Unit193, that connectivity-check thing doesn't sound *bad*, or is that something that currently works by default and won't work after the change?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Eh, but nothing wrong with your script, just unexpected.  The check isn't enabled yet, will be an additional package.
<bluesabre> Unit193, yeah, but dumping files to $HOME is something a jerk developer would do
<Unit193> Yeah, I was trying to remove all the things from ~ today.
<bluesabre> Unit193, flocculant, I'll file the FFe for notifyd tonight, works well, and would be a cool feature to have in the release
<bluesabre> menulibre update should be coming down the pipe this weekend as well
<ali1234> i feel like building something
<ali1234> whoops wrong channel :)
<flocculant> knome: you planning on any beta announcement - is anyone else?
<knome> flocculant, not planning, but i can help with one
<flocculant> knome: I've got enough to sort out, if no-one else does anything we can do without imo
<flocculant> it's only a snapshot as we know
<knome> yeah, i'm fine with that as well
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> release note and download will be on the main release announcement
<knome> you mean not wiki?
<flocculant> knome: umm - I mean there is a release note - that'll get on the Ubuntu announcement - as will the b1 download url
<knome> right :)
<knome> good good
<flocculant> well - when I mean there's a release note - it's being worked on :D
<flocculant> trying to remember what new stuffs it has ... 
<flocculant> as opposed to what I've got here :)
<knome> so... some #xubuntu log analysis
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/.loganalysis/
<flocculant> w is from webchat?
<knome> yep
<knome> i installer, o online docs, d documentation (shipped), last one is unknown, so not a known letter, or an old style number
<knome> though
<knome> these bars don't feel to be right...
<knome> that installer bar for july isn't 1/181...
<knome> hmm yeah, what are those numbers there anyway
<knome> hmmh.
<knome> must be missing something essential
<knome> oh
 * knome facepalms
<knome> theeeeeeere we go.
<knome> much better
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: very basically done a release note - please fiddle as you see fit
<flocculant> off now
<knome> ok, so for anybody interested, whole 2015 and some months from 2014 are added
<Unit193> Where's the installer place them?
<knome> hm?
<knome> you mean the installer before we had xubuntuNNi? unknown
<knome> online docs seem to be stable, installer and shipped documentation in rise, which is nice
<Unit193> Meant in #xubuntu or #xubuntu-offtopic, it was dicussed but I don't remember.
<knome> right
<knome> this is the logs for #xubuntu
<knome> but...
<knome> i don't remember where we point people nowadays
<knome> i'd guess #xubuntu by the numbers :P
<knome> i also checked if there were many potential duplicates, but that was like <5 than a month, so not considered here
<knome> (method: see if the same nick joins two or more times a row)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-24
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hullo sean
<bluesabre> oh wow, our wordpress instance is actually up to date
<knome> haha
<knome> our dokuwiki one isn't *hint*
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> i guess i should do that tomorrow
<bluesabre> looking for flocculant's release note
<knome> i thought they wouldn't release flocculant 
<bluesabre> critical fail, each and every time
<bluesabre> yup, not finding it
<bluesabre> there we go http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
<knome> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: oops - might have helped to point you at it ... sorry :)
<Unit193> Anyone have access to errors. ?
<knome> of what?
<Unit193> errors.ubuntu.com
<knome> oh
<knome> noooope.
<Unit193> I poked bdmurray, if not then I'll just mark invalid as there's not enough info.
<ali1234> i do
<ali1234> Unit193: what bug?
<Unit193> ali1234: Thanks, I'll remember for the future.  bdmurray added the trace to the bug, LP 1667843
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1667843 in icecast2 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/icecast2:11:source_shutdown:source_main:source_client_thread:source_fallback_file:_start_routine" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667843
<ali1234> "Fallback_tune_Iceberg_preludi.mp3" is not known to google at all
<Unit193> Might not be, someone just set that to the stream's fallback.
<ali1234> string doesn't appear in the source code
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-25
<ali1234> my best guess is some kind of crash if the fallback file isn't found due to user config error
<ali1234> i'm basing that on it being an absolute path
<ali1234> nah, it's not that at all
<bluesabre> Unit193, I also have access I believe
<Unit193> Wow, really?
<bluesabre> yup, sure do
<knome> :)
<knome> how's SRU's?
<bluesabre> knome, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1512120/comments/84
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1512120 in thunar (Ubuntu Yakkety) "[SRU] thunar crashes on file renaming" [Undecided,In progress]
<bluesabre> so, waiting
<knome> mhm
<Unit193> Saw a mention in -devel, was..."nice"
<bluesabre> nice in quotes sounds scary
<knome> yes, tell us
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-genmon-plugin 4.0.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-genmon-plugin-4-0-0-released-tp48923.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-diskperf-plugin 2.6.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-diskperf-plugin-2-6-1-released-tp48925.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
<bluesabre> Gotta love how active xfce has been recently
<Unit193> Hmm, more to poke.
<Unit193> We can claim bugfix release at least. :D
<flocculant> hi bluesabre Unit193 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant Unit193 
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: sorry about letting you flail about the interwebs looking for the release note :D
<flocculant> pretty sure we had other updates - but I didn't have a great deal of time this week - so 'shrug'
<bluesabre> flocculant, np :)
 * flocculant is going to keep manifest from day 1 of aa so he knows what's really changed :D
<bluesabre> :D
 * flocculant is going to somehow highlight light* too :p
<flocculant> anyway - off now - have a good day :)
<bluesabre> anybody able to reproduce this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1667786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1667786 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole 0.9.0 crashes when skipping any video" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> tried it virtualbox but it can't play videos at all there ("unable to initialize Xv output")
<flocculant> bluesabre: crashes here opening a file, not getting as far as skippin,g sigabrt in g_assertion_message()
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> ali1234, yeah, Xv doesn't work in vbox, X is too resource heavy for vbox, clutter always seems up in the air in gtk land
<flocculant> bluesabre: hang on - here - git was set to clutter - reset to (No Xv) - playing
<flocculant> s/git/it
<flocculant> though I do have the ppa version as well
<bluesabre> >.<
<flocculant> both not clutter options work here 
<flocculant> (still have the old 'some mkv' issue
<flocculant> bluesabre: I see the protocol error etc in terminal - but it's not crashing when using either of the X Window options
<bluesabre> flocculant, gotcha, I'll see what can be fixed with "new" clutter
<flocculant> okey doke
<ochosi> meh, lost quite a bit of history there. if anyone pinged me with something important, ping again...
<flocculant> bluesabre: does parole, mugshot, menulibre, mousepad, catfish, all da settings sound like a sensible list of things we should regularly test rather than rely on use of them only
<flocculant> hi ochosi - think the only thing I pinged about was fixed lightdm and the comment you made on that xfce nitify bug
<bluesabre> flocculant, parole and mugshot should be tested a few times a cycle, too many other moving parts underneath that we can't trust them
<bluesabre> menulibre, mousepad, catfish should be fairly reliable
<bluesabre> but still tested with some frequency
<bluesabre> I think use-only testing guarantees we miss things
<ochosi> "too many other moving parts underneath that we can't trust them" == gstreamer?
<bluesabre> gstreamer, clutter, kernelly things
<bluesabre> h264 hardware decoding is kernel and gstreamer, same for camera support
<bluesabre> and python/gtk integration breaks everything else I make
<bluesabre> got parole to start with clutter after some hacking... back to broken
<flocculant> bluesabre: hard to know what to do for the best tbh - cos any 'manufactured' test is going to miss things people might find during use
<flocculant> do both - I guess :D
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> and then there are 'some mkv' type things which I see, you don't but someone else might the day after we release :p
<bluesabre> I think that if we have a healthy number of test files for a standard parole test suite, we'll be good
<flocculant> still convinced that's some type of codec issue 
<bluesabre> I have one ogm file that can't skip forward, doing so restarts the video
<bluesabre> tried some HVEC encoded videos today... they play, one frame every 30 seconds, both parole and totem
<bluesabre> good news is that I am fixing other bugs as I try to fix these bugs :D
<flocculant> that's going to feel infinitely worse than a complete fail to play - especially if you have to watch it all ...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> 90minute film at 120 frames per hour woohoo
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> like the early days of 3d gaming on "family" computers
<flocculant> I guess what we need is a list of things we know fail to play
<bluesabre> it'd play... technically
<flocculant> ha ha ha
<bluesabre> The problem is that we usually can't share the trouble maker files, we find them in our own non-CC video libraries :\
<flocculant> mmm
<bluesabre> I think I'll go ahead and disable clutter again for parole 0.9.1 and work towards a solution before 1.0
<flocculant> I found 'Rosa' that plays the files I can't play on either parole or totem
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok
<bluesabre> flocculant, that another gst player?
<flocculant> https://sourceforge.net/projects/liteapps/files/ROSA%20Media%20Player/
<bluesabre> hm
<flocculant> bluesabre: the biggest issue for me is I don't really watch things on here - I use the tv and openelec
<flocculant> hence I don't catch them often
<bluesabre> That's fair... I watch all of my videos online now, so don't see these frequently either
<bluesabre> been using parole daily for podcasts recently, so been making a lot of improvements for those
<bluesabre> figured out today that gstreamer can pull tags from remote files
<bluesabre> https://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/commit/?id=1a952fe9b632969f5ecbdc4f783ae285959c435c :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: what I do do regularly is check things I know work and/or don't work when I get updates through
<flocculant> I did at one point comtemplate moving openelec back to 16.04 - but then I got that tv off losing signal issue - so reverted
<bluesabre> you're also handy for "hey, here's a new thing, test this"
<flocculant> ha ha - just doing my bit :D
<flocculant> might have another try with that tomorrow 
<flocculant> might try dualbooting them - best option
<flocculant> bluesabre: possibly another candidate for sru > bug 1308105
<ubottu> bug 1308105 in Mythbuntu "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308105
<flocculant> bluesabre: fyi - parole playing a file (that won't play here) on xenial using clutter without asking for any codecs
<bluesabre> yay xenial
<flocculant> oh - added the daily ppa - so have same parole version
<flocculant> also checking out tv signal loss as I have that newer xfce4-settings 
<flocculant> now to see if I can add openelc to grub ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so hopefully this will help catch these parole things - will try and default to xubuntu on the tv
<flocculant> not getting the dead screen thing now seemingly - though perhaps I'll reserve the rright to change my mind after tv has been off for more than 30 minutes :p
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-26
<flocculant> bluesabre: tv tells me no signal - but mouse or keyboard wakes it up - better than reboot from wall :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: parole 0.9.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-0-9-1-released-tp48928.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> Anybody interested in taking a peek at that, uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging and is currently building
<bluesabre> Unless you see a show stopper with it, I'll go ahead and push to ubuntu tonight
<flocculant> bluesabre: will check it out in an hour or so 
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> bluesabre: seems to work ok 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r494 Improve button style in infobars... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-19
<bluesabre> ochosi: that seems reasonable
<bluesabre> ochosi: and the lack of xfpm 1.6 is odd
<bluesabre> we should sync/merge that
<Unit193> But, but, but. :(
<Unit193> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/xfce4-session/commit/1970148f5196f2166ca3402240305507f8f9bcdd looks like this didn't get upstreamed?
<Unit193> ochosi: ...Would one be able to override this?  May as well, no?
<ochosi> Unit193: but what..?
<ochosi> i thought we discussed the outstanding xfpm issues and i fixed them
<ochosi> also, i can merge that session patch tonight
<Unit193> IIRC, most were.  Oh nice!  And I didn't mean merge directly, but adapt panel to use the new session command.
<Unit193> (Basically I'm poking because if we drop that patch, we can sync again.)
<Unit193> ...Hrm, not sure that works though as one would have to check for a command option, perhaps return value?  Eh.
<Unit193> Either way, thanks for taking a look!
<ochosi> yeah, i can take a look at that script and improve it a little
<ochosi> but in general it makes sense to check for the command stored in xfconf
<ochosi> "most were" -> please tell me the outstanding issues so i can take a look early enough
<ochosi> at least there should be no regressions
<knome> ochosi, i think 5 lines might be too much, but that's my preference..
<Unit193> Whereas I'm fairly sure I'd like larger bubbles than knome , but maybe not.
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i'm fine with a larger default if it can be tweaked
<Unit193> I don't care about defaults, likely 5 or so is right for typical use I believe.
<Unit193> Don't care == as long as configurable, I *expect* to be atypical here.
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: nah, i don't want to add yet another configuration option...
<ochosi> i'd rather have a sane default
<ochosi> and currently it's 1 line :)
<ochosi> and fairly fixed width
<ochosi> so i'm trying to make it at least extend more vertically
<ochosi> Unit193: also, what were those xfpm bugs you didn't wanna tell me about..? :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-20
<Unit193> ochosi: OK, I thought an xfconf channel would be cool.  I can test a patch to see if it seems long enough though, if that'd help.  And I keep not mentioning because there's no need, I abhor gtk-swtches, the new one has them.  I think most everything else was either addressed in the icon theme or xfpm itself, I at least remember checking some upower info for it.
<ochosi> Unit193: i could make a greybird variant for you where switches look like checkboxes
<Unit193> Wow, thanks for the offer!  But alas, I use (a patched) Numix.  But as I said, it's not a "regression" per se.  Though I'd not want to sync the current version in Experimental, would want the new release.
<ochosi> i guess i could patch a patched nunix too ;)
<Unit193> :o
<ochosi> just so that i dont pester you both about it, would you take care of xfpm1.6 or shall i poke sean?
<Unit193> I'd likely take longer than him, I'd want it in Debian. :P
<Unit193> I could likely do it anyway though.
<ochosi> having it in debian is not a mistakrle
<ochosi> as long as we get if before FF ;)
<Unit193> I'll see if it's time for unstable rather than experimental.
<Unit193> ochosi: Anything else dev-wise to note?  Or that I should note?
<ochosi> yeah, there is an a11y feature i would like to include in xfce4-settings
<ochosi> "find my cursor"
<ochosi> the code already exists and the author agreed to let us include it
<Unit193> Wait, didn't windows XP or something have this feature?
<Unit193> Hold a button and it had a closing ring on it?
<ochosi> i'd probavly do it synchronously upstream (if bluesabre agrees) with a patch release and then we could sync that
<ochosi> yup, exactly that
<ochosi> comes in handy in todays multi-monitor world
<ochosi> and finally maybe another clipman release with a search function
<ochosi> if i get to it
<ochosi> the parole patches i would postpone until after FF
<Unit193> Yeah sounds nice.
<ochosi> thats the rough plan
<ochosi> if no dramatic bugs come up
<Unit193> So the problem with me doing stuff in Debian is that pkg-xfce has to migrate to Git from Svn, which is "fun"
<ochosi> there are some scripts and helpers for that though
<ochosi> i do that at $dayjob.from time to time
<ochosi> or: whats the fun part?
<Unit193> Basically just doing it.
<ochosi> in any case, maybe bluesabre can take cafe of xfpm
<Unit193> I've done a few, but none for pkg-xfce yet.
<Unit193> ochosi: spelling-error-in-binary usr/bin/xfce4-power-manager excuting executing
<Unit193> appstream-metadata-in-legacy-location usr/share/appdata/xfce4-power-manager.appdata.xml   too if you feel like it, but personally I don't care in the slightest. :)
<ochosi> sounds like something i should fix tonight
<ochosi> we have a lot of appstream work to do...
<Unit193> There's an appstream checker somewhere hosted.
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<ochosi> but appstream is also "fun" ;)
<bluesabre> Unit193: is there anything else that needs to be taken care of there? I can help with patches so we can get 1.6.2 out and work with Corsac on getting it to salsa
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks like a simple version bump, built it and didn't see anything pressing.
<bluesabre> cool
<Unit193> Dunno why you're asking me though. :D
<Unit193> So far I have it built, but just sitting in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/bionic/ :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: since I knew you'd built it and looked at lintian :)
<Unit193> Only other upstream ones: binary-file-built-without-LFS-support, binary-without-manpage, desktop-entry-lacks-keywords-entry
<knome> ochosi, since we carry that script to convert svg to png in the artwork package, maybe we could look at doing that for the wallpapers at some point as well?
<ochosi> we could, but then the recolor feature of xfdesktop would break, no?
<knome> hmm?
<ochosi> hm, i don't remember anymore if we did that or not (ship a wallpaper with partly transparent background and set a background color in xfdesktop)
<knome> we didn't
<ochosi> and i thought svg was an advantage there for some reason..
<knome> and png supports alpha anyway...
<knome> nah
<knome> we already ship png
<ochosi> ok, in that case there is no reason not to convert svg to png
<ochosi> with the script i mean
<knome> the thing is we could then put the svg's on the package
<knome> and convert to png
<ochosi> yeah, it's very simple, it's in debian/rules
<ochosi> if you wanna take a look
<knome> yeah, but probably for 18.10
<ochosi> i'll keep hogging that find-cursor topic meanwhile
<knome> i'm optimizing our wallpaper png's
<ochosi> still hope i can get that into 18.04
<knome> either we didn't do this before or software has gotten better
<knome> i get 20-30% decrease in size for most
<knome> also, do we want to drop some older relases with this LTS?
<knome> maybe drop everything pre-16.04?
<ochosi> yeah, why not
<ochosi> we could also push them to a legacy or nostalgia package
<knome> looks like we did a similar thing before
<ochosi> but i'm not sure it's worth the effort
<knome> sure we can
 * knome shrugs
<ochosi> could also put it on the website
<knome> ask the packagers
<knome> we already have it in launchpad
<ochosi> just to keep it "available" somewhere
<knome> iirc..
<ochosi> right, but LP is not very discoverable
<knome> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/xubuntu-marketing/current/files/head:/wallpapers/2560x1600/
<knome> and the sources https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/xubuntu-marketing/current/files/head:/wallpapers/sources/
<knome> i know but link to them
<knome> why duplicate the effort
<knome> :P
<knome> also should optimize the png's on that branch
<ochosi> yeah, sure, linking to LP should be fine
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> heeey, i was able to make my NUC make some noise!
<knome> guess i should also clean up some day
<knome> gets dusty in here...
<flocculant> bluesabre: not happening on the live session - but what I'm seeing locally is no right click menu in catfish - not sure whether to report, as possibly an effect of something in ppa, so just ftr unless you want it reported
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-21
<bluesabre> flocculant: indeed, right-click seems to be broken in catfish
<bluesabre> That's unexpected
<bluesabre> And time for bed
<bluesabre> knome: can upload whenever you're done updating lp:xubuntu-artwork, just give the word :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: that's new then - something people see the same as me ...
<flocculant> anyone able to test install for this bug 1748028
<ubottu> bug 1748028 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Flashing text at bottom of grub menu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1748028
<flocculant> looks awful here  - but if it's just me then *shrug*
<bluesabre> ochosi: just got a tip that the greeter looks unpleasant with adwaita, if you want to take a look at that
<bluesabre> "the indicators (a11y, session, language, power) don't have the same background color than host and clock"
<knome> bluesabre, yup, about to prepare the package now
<knome> bluesabre, pushing
<knome> ugh, internet is slow
<knome> bluesabre, ok, done; please check everything is fine before uploading
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: i don't think the indicators have the same bg with the default theme either fwiw; i noticed the other day it's slightly off
<knome> but it's not glaring or anything
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r331 New 18.04 wallpaper for desktop and Plymouth... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, then i need to check the css that is baked into the greeter i guess...
<ochosi> but we can fix that before UIF
<knome> ochosi, also see my comment
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, and even after I'd say
<bluesabre> just getting it on the radar
<bluesabre> knome: thanks, will upload tonight
<ochosi> yeah i know, it's also off with greybird
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe report a bug about it..
<knome> geez
<ochosi> i'd rather focus on getting a xfce4-settings 4.12 release out
<ochosi> so we get the improved display handling and find-cursor thingy
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, will take a look at your branch tonight as well
<ochosi> kewl, thanks!
<FurretUber> Hi, the packages that manage the volume icon on the bar and the volume buttons changed on Bionic. On Artful, xubuntu-desktop depends from xfce4-volumed and indicator-sound and, on Bionic, depends from xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin. When upgrading or after a apt autoremove, won't the volume icon on the bar disappear and the keyboard shortcuts stop working?
<Unit193> FurretUber: Shouldn't, the upgrader hasn't been set to remove them.
<FurretUber> After upgrading, both xfce4-volumed and indicator-sound were marked as no longer necessaries, which would be removed by apt autoremove
<Unit193> No longer depended on?  They'd still be marked as manually installed.
<FurretUber> They weren't, at least on my case this failed
<bluesabre> Good to know
<bluesabre> We're planning on adding that to our migration scripts
<Unit193> Migration scripts?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-22
<Unit193> So a typical upgrade will leave volumed and ind-sound installed, I didn't use the upgrader but I still have them installed and in use.
<Unit193> So what am I supposed to do with this xfpm in ~ ? :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: thought we had something for that, but it was just the templates
<bluesabre> Unit193: go ahead and upload :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: We wouldn't want to be changing users config, that's very uncool.
<bluesabre> Unit193: right, but if we replace the sound indicator package and don't put a sound indicator back in their panel, also uncool
<bluesabre> but if the package should stick around, no issues there
<Unit193> Understandable, that's why we wouldn't add indicator-sound/etc to the upgrader tool to remove.
<Unit193> Sure, remember the indicator-power times?  We all had to switch back manually. :D
<bluesabre> as for the gnome-/mate-, are we going to remove? We'll need to update the keyboard binding for the calc
<Unit193> I'd think that'd be a good idea.
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/18.04.2
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/357968625/xubuntu-artwork_18.04.1_18.04.2.diff.gz heh.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome: I did the wp color scheme
<bluesabre> *dig
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/debian-edu/debian-edu-artwork.git/tree/art-lines/desktop-base/Makefile.am#n28
<bluesabre> Unit193: neat
<bluesabre> seems like that could be handy
<Unit193> I say that in case we ever actually want to build from source, yeah.
<Unit193> (I only know it because: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/debian-edu/debian-edu-artwork.git/tree/debian/changelog#n15)
<bluesabre> Unit193: are you currently packaging the greeter merge? Don't want to step on your work again :)
<Unit193> Technically, you made me upload my version anyway, soo...  But no sir!
<bluesabre> oh?
<bluesabre> Unit193: vs ubuntu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9bVdPXRGbx/, vs debian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QFPnVTMpkc/, look good?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r332 Release and upload 18.04.2 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes, any comments are upstream comments.
<FurretUber> Where I can find why a system that upgraded from 16.04 to 18.04 crashes on login and returns to lightdm?
<Unit193> Is this the thing that if you login a few times, eventually it works?  Did you remove .xauthority and ice too?
<Unit193> !xhangs
<ubottu> If the GUI hangs after logging in, use <ctrl><alt><f1> to switch to text mode. Log in and do: rm .{X,ICE}authority
<FurretUber> Now I removed both
<Unit193> If it's the one I'm thinking of, it shows the desktop, then flips back.  If you login one or two more times it eventually works. :P
<FurretUber> I will restart the system
<Unit193> Restart lightdm.
<Unit193> sudo systemctl restart lightdm
<FurretUber> Removing those files and restarting lightdm didn't work
<FurretUber> Using cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log has only one (EE)
<FurretUber> AIGLX: reverting to software rendering
<Unit193> There's also logs in /var/log/lightdm/
<Unit193> You may want to seek help in #ubuntu+1
<FurretUber> There was a warning that upstart was not found on lightdm-gtk-greeter, and upstart is not installable
<bluesabre> Pushed a new greeter to bionic, taking it's time to show up anywhere, might have gone to the void
<bluesabre> or lp taking a nap
<bluesabre> or its this, https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus/status/966160500827435008
<bluesabre> bed time :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Mine went to the void too!
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for the xfpm upload :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: oh wow, that cursor cannot hide
<bluesabre> ochosi: and yup, gotta have the no compositor fallback
<bluesabre> (for the curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypaW7lPm3vI&feature=youtu.be)
<bluesabre> !team | I'm thinking about scheduling our next meeting for tomorrow at 23 UTC (see below), will anybody be around?
<ubottu> I'm thinking about scheduling our next meeting for tomorrow at 23 UTC (see below), will anybody be around?: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Meeting&iso=20180223T23&p1=%3A&ah=1
<bluesabre> Unit193: so based on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oAkWhSp-Lpo-g1Vv91APlmr5L_erfarN_45CSxyxrxc/edit?usp=sharing, there's probably not much we can do about fonts without restricting language support, huh?
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<Unit193> I should likely say that time works for me.
<Unit193> bluesabre: There might be a better way to do it, for example.
<knome> bluesabre, good good ;)
<knome> tomorrow is likely bad for me with the meeting, but don't let that hold you from running it
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, still wondering whether to use xshape or xdraw as fallback
<ochosi> and i wont be around tomorrow
<ochosi> tonight would work
<Unit193> What'd you end up with?  That's (defineable) key press?
<FurretUber> Hi, I think I've found why the machine I upgraded from Xubuntu 16.04 to 18.04 failed. On the .xsession-errors the last line is:
<FurretUber> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99x11-common_start: linha 5: /sbin/upstart: Arquivo ou diretÃ³rio nao encontrado
<FurretUber> Basically, upstart was not found
<FurretUber> It tried to run /sbin/upstart --user, apparently. 
<flocculant> bluesabre - time's fine for me tomorrow evening
<flocculant> knome: nice wallpaper :)
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i dont really like the idea of hardcoding a shortcut...
<ochosi> Unit193: i'm still looking into checking whether there's a shortcut defined for it so i can show an infobar or something, but maybe that's not so critical for the 4.12 version
<Unit193> ochosi: Right, I was thinking rather than the movement tracking style that was proposed.
<ochosi> sry, i don't understand then
<ochosi> the movement tracking is just a new feature i put in
<ochosi> in theory it could be optional
<ochosi> or is that even what you dis/like?
<Unit193> Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, the only specific thing I wouldn't is shaking the mouse to get it.  Key press is ideal. :)
<Unit193> So, I just simply asked how it was triggered.
<Unit193> (So thanks for adding it!)  Also in case you didn't see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/1.6.1-0ubuntu1
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> hehe, noo, it's not triggered by mouse-wiggle
<ochosi> it's a custom keyboard shortcut the user can set
<Unit193> \o/
<ochosi> i'm not even sure mouse-wiggle is possible to implement properly with X11
<Unit193> Additionally, it's even easier to see than Windows' version. :D
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> yeah, maybe i'll make the color configurable
<ochosi> not sure yet
<ochosi> someone in the xfce-dev chan said it looks like an 80s computer game explosion
<ochosi> and ooh, thanks for the upload!
<ochosi> there were some things i should fix in xfpm, right? appstream stuff..?
<Unit193> I didn't say you had to fix, it told me, I passed it along, I forgot because I didn't care. ;D
<Unit193> appstream-metadata-in-legacy-location usr/share/appdata/xfce4-power-manager.appdata.xml
<Unit193> usr/bin/xfce4-power-manager excuting executing  was the more interesting one.
<ochosi> heh, ok
<ochosi> i'll check
<ochosi> first i'll have to check the screenshooter code
<bluesabre> evening all
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-23
<bluesabre> I'd like to announce tomorrow's meeting, but the Ubuntu Wiki won't login without timing out
<bluesabre> There we go
<bluesabre> ochosi: got any items for the meeting to add to the agenda?
<bluesabre> Probably going to add a few things tonight
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> well there's the find-cursor thing you know about
<ochosi> that i would really like to push in
<ochosi> via a new settings release
<ochosi> or if not in time for FF, we could put it in as a patch and i then do a release a little later and we get that in more easily afer FF
<bluesabre> ochosi: once you get it ready, I'll merge and release
<ochosi> almost there
<bluesabre> great
<ochosi> just some small fixes for the non-composited version missing
<ochosi> feel free to test
<bluesabre> I'll probably try to merge in some other recent fixes from 4.13 too
<bluesabre> have a good night!
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> you too!
<bluesabre> Updated the meeting wiki page with latest updates I'm familiar with
<Unit193> Got the recent uploads?
<knome> flocculant, ta :)
<pleia2> dev.xubuntu.org is hard to reach at the moment, known issue https://status.linode.com/
<pleia2> (seems to be better now)
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> !team | Xubuntu Community Meeting in 20 minutes
<ubottu> Xubuntu Community Meeting in 20 minutes: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<flocculant> good day?
<bluesabre> that's currently up in the air
<bluesabre> may need to leave the meeting early
<flocculant> oh dear
<bluesabre> flocculant: refreshed my manifest diff for today's iso https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes
<flocculant> that's a handy list
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> once I figure out how to nicely automate that (and improve on dokuwiki's poor table sorting) that page should stay up to date
<flocculant> not sure what the crack is with bug 1644917 - ochosi believes it's long fixed ... it's not ;) just one of those visual things but ...
<ubottu> bug 1644917 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Label missing from indicator-plugin clear option" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644917
<flocculant> right - that'd be even handier :p
<bluesabre> The other day I saw it actually show the label correctly, and then didn't
<flocculant> I've not seen it
<Unit193> http://archive.unit193.net/debian/bionic/xfce4-indicator-plugin_2.3.3-1vanir1_amd64.deb you could try that.
<flocculant> ever tbh - one of those things I don't do so wouldn't, but now I look every time I see that bug
<flocculant> ugh 
<flocculant> gdebi just silently fails now apparently
<bluesabre> that's pleasant
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - but ubuntu don't care about it I guess
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - that one doesn't even give me to option to cancel or whatever is under the invisible label - it just went right ahead and cleared them :D
<Unit193> That's Bionic+a few commits
<flocculant> well one of the commits makes it jfdi then :D
<Unit193>     - Make sure the "clear indicators" dialog works with libxfce4ui-4.13.x
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> o/
<bluesabre> Alrighty!
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 23 23:01:39 2018 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> !team | Meeeeeeting time :)
<ubottu> Meeeeeeting time :): team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> Who's around?
<pleia2> o/
<flocculant> yup
<bluesabre> yay
<slickymaster> o/
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> We'll let the others roll in for a few
<flocculant> hopeful then :p
<bluesabre> I try to be
<flocculant> I used to be like that
<slickymaster> lol
<bluesabre> That and I was wrapping up dinner
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> Now we'll start
<bluesabre> #topic Open action items
<slickymaster> that almost sounded as if you made a burrito out of your dinner bluesabre 
<bluesabre> slickymaster: not a bad idea
<bluesabre> #done bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6
<bluesabre> (thanks Unit193)
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> #info postponed for bionic+1: bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes
<bluesabre> Fairly certain that
<bluesabre> #done flocculant to mail list(s) re 17.04 EOL and draft blog post
<bluesabre> happened
<flocculant> ye
<bluesabre> #topic Updates and Announcements
<bluesabre> #info Xubuntu Wallpaper Contest Open
<pleia2> #link https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-18-04-community-wallpaper-contest/
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> #info Xubuntu 18.04 Default Wallpaper Uploaded
<bluesabre> (looks fancy)
<pleia2> need some submissions that aren't flowers :)
<bluesabre> Or more flowers
<bluesabre> and rocks
<bluesabre> (ochosi)
<genii> Are most of them photos so far?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> (submissions are public)
<bluesabre> https://contest.xubuntu.org/wallpaper_contest/xubuntu-18-04-community-wallpaper-contest/?action=view
<flocculant> thought the rock one was the same as one from that site he liked last time
<bluesabre> not sure
<pleia2> there was a request on social media for more original art ones, not just photos
<genii> I tried to do a watercolour thing in Gimp but it looks more like a blurry ball of rainbows
<Unit193> Tell them we'd gladly accept such contribution?
<pleia2> Unit193: "patches welcome" is not as friendly as you think it is ;)
<bluesabre> #info lots of package updates since the beginning of bionic, a few recent ones: greybird-gtk-theme 3.22.6, xubuntu-icon-theme 18.04.1, catfish 1.4.4, lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.4, menulibre 2.1.5, xfce4-notifyd 0.4.1, xfce4-power-manager 1.6.1
<bluesabre> pleia2: yes, every time I say that I don't get patches
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> That's because it's a polite brush off. :P
<bluesabre> Woops
<bluesabre> Any other updates/announcements?
<bluesabre> Yes there are actually...
<bluesabre> #info March 1: Feature Freeze, Debian Import Freeze
<bluesabre> #info March 8: Beta 1
<bluesabre> Pretty sure we are participating in that
<flocculant> that's on my list of things to rabbit about
<flocculant> as is 16.04.4
<flocculant> next week ...
<flocculant> which is why I'd not added them to the announcement bit :p
<bluesabre> Good point
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> Let's hop on over to that then
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> (get it, hop?)
<bluesabre> Sorry
<flocculant> :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
<bluesabre> Do we want to talk blueprints or general first?
<flocculant> don't mind - depending on time - up at stupid o'clock tomorrow :(
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> Blueprints first then, shouldn't take long
<bluesabre> #subtopic Blueprints
<bluesabre> https://dev.xubuntu.org/
<bluesabre> We're looking a little rough this cycle
 * flocculant wanders off for a bit as no qa bp \o/
<flocculant> bluesabre: looks much the same as it did for the last cycle ;)
<bluesabre> But there's probably more done than it appears
<bluesabre> In fact, there definitely are
<bluesabre> I need to update a few things
<bluesabre> So if everybody just wants to poke around and refresh your BPs so we can target release day a bit better... ;)
<bluesabre> I realize now that's not really a good discussion item
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: your turn to #subtopic and rabbit
<bluesabre> #chair flocculant
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre flocculant
<bluesabre> #chair pleia2 
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre flocculant pleia2
<bluesabre> #chair slickymaster 
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre flocculant pleia2 slickymaster
<flocculant> bluesabre: did you not want to libinput?
<bluesabre> flocculant: decided it's not something to worry about for this cycle
<flocculant> ok
<bluesabre> we'll probably have to go for it on bionic+1 so I think they are removing -synaptics
<flocculant> #subtopic 16.04.4 / Beta 1 18.04
<flocculant> this is just forewarning everyone - with job I have now I can't guarantee marking for release
<flocculant> also not got much time to be testing each and every version and the tests
<flocculant> I suspect 16.04 is more or less just install smoketests 
<flocculant> #subtopic numlockx
<flocculant> bug 1746556
<ubottu> bug 1746556 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu needs a better num lock handler at login and during user session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1746556
<flocculant> someone else apparently gets annoyed at having to do this each time they install, so that's at least 2 of us ...
<flocculant> thoughts on adding that and setting up the lightdm doodah to have it at login?
<bluesabre> That seems reasonable to me
<slickymaster> +1
<bluesabre> !info numlockx bionic
<ubottu> numlockx (source: numlockx): enable NumLock in X11 sessions. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2-7 (bionic), package size 8 kB, installed size 68 kB
<bluesabre> That also seems agreeable
<flocculant> though I tend to make my one a lot further on than 50-numlock.conf just in case :p
<flocculant> yea not very big at all :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: so you currently use this in your config?
<flocculant> yup
<bluesabre> neat
<bluesabre> Sounds incredibly painless
<flocculant> have done for years as it never works without
<flocculant> yea - just a pita the first time :D
<bluesabre> Will probably go ahead with that then, it seems like a value add and nothing more
<bluesabre> thanks for bringing it up
<flocculant> bluesabre: only time it went wrong was when lightdm changed and you needed the [Seat} bit
<flocculant> no problem
 * flocculant is done then 
<bluesabre> Anybody else got discussion items?
<flocculant> I'm - as always - concerned about the testing levels we 'apparently' get
<bluesabre> Yeah
<flocculant> but bored by the discussion now tbf - as is everyone else I expect
<bluesabre> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<flocculant> #subtopic Testing
<flocculant> then
<bluesabre> to get some fresh views on that at least
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> yay
<Unit193> It's really just the install media though, I activly run Bionic.
<flocculant> not sure what we can do about it though
<flocculant> Unit193: I know :)
<bluesabre> hi Unit193 
<flocculant> trouble is - unless someone actively tells us we have no idea at all
<flocculant> and frankly someone could just go to the tracker on release day and mark it for release
<flocculant> bluesabre: not sure we'll ever get fresh views from the few of us in a meeting
<flocculant> because I'd have to assume we all want it done 
<Unit193> There's still that one guy that emails me about Core ISOs, but that's unofficial stuff still.
<flocculant> yup
<bluesabre> flocculant: let's plan for a call for testing and social media'ing everywhere
<flocculant> I'm sure there are people out there - I see pings from the u+1 channel
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm
<flocculant> bored doing those pointlessly as well 
<bluesabre> maybe a nice detailed blog post instead
<bluesabre> happy to coordinate on that
<flocculant> ok
<bluesabre> pleia2, knome_: sound good to you?
<pleia2> yep
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> bluesabre: let me know when's good for you - but I need to afk now 
<bluesabre> #action flocculant and bluesabre to publish testing blogpost
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant and bluesabre to publish testing blogpost
<bluesabre> flocculant: we can follow up when you're next available :)
<bluesabre> thanks for hanging around for the meeting
<flocculant> over weekend - later tomorrow, most of Sunday - evenings after 1900 utc
<flocculant> no problem - night all :)
<slickymaster> nighty night flocculant 
<bluesabre> anybody else got anything to discuss?
<slickymaster> nothing here
<bluesabre> pleia2 Unit193?
<pleia2> nope, I'm good
<Unit193> I hope not, but if there is I'll just give you repeated pokes.
<bluesabre> Sounds... painful
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> !info knome is next on the list, but if anybody wants to schedule one, go for it
<ubottu> 'is' is not a valid distribution: artful, artful-backports, artful-proposed, bionic, bionic-backports, bionic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, xen
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> #info knome is next on the list, but if anybody wants to schedule one, go for it
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 23 23:49:50 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-02-23-23.01.moin.txt
<bluesabre> Thanks everybody!
<slickymaster> thanks bluesabre 
<Unit193> Sorry all about the build notifications, I started them before the meeting and only realized it was going to interrupt the meeting.
<bluesabre> Unit193: no problem here, glad to see SwissBot alive and well
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> bluesabre: It doesn't ever stop in another channel, announcing all NEW packages in Debian. :3
<bluesabre> shew
<bluesabre> minutes are up
<Unit193> Soo...Every time testing comes up, the tracker is brought up.  I always think "But I'm actually running it day to day, doesn't that count?"
<bluesabre> knome_: "Fix Released" doesn't seem to change anything on the tracker for bugs https://dev.xubuntu.org
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-24
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, but there's not a great way to track that
<bluesabre> Does popcon (I think that's what it's called) do anything for that?
<Unit193> Technically no, but yes.  All you'd have to do is check the version of x-d-s.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Popcon data would actually have to be updated though, it hasn't been since 2016.
<Unit193> Wed Jun 22 15:09:05 2016 UTC
<bluesabre> That seems useful
<Unit193> I'm not sure the Ubuntu one is detailed enough for that though.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I lied.
<bluesabre> :'(
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - I'm guessing that popcon will get fixed sharpish given https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-February/040139.html
<flocculant> Unit193: and re testing - just because I bring up testing in meeting(s) - I'm not really talking about tracker and 'us' but all those out there who run dev and we never know about
<flocculant> pretty sure I always say the same thing to you ;)
<Unit193> But I can't fix or control that, I can only control my own actions.
<knome_> bluesabre, tracker isn't realtime for all things.. what specifically is lagging?
<bluesabre> knome: actually, fixed bugs get removed from https://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-b-bugs
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> It's not that either
<bluesabre> Bugs shared between the Bugs BP and the Dev BP show on one
<bluesabre> And other weirdness
<bluesabre> 0/9 shown on https://dev.xubuntu.org/
<bluesabre> 8 items shown on https://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details
<Unit193> ...And like clockwork.
<Unit193> Debian #891325
<ubottu> Debian bug 891325 in xfce4-weather-plugin "xfce4-weather-plugin: search function violates provider's usage policy" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/891325
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-25
<flocculant> bluesabre: ygm :)
<flocculant> done 16.04.4 64 bit - passed everything mandatory, failed lvm run-once due to that locale bug 
<flocculant> which is fixed for bionic at least
<knome> bluesabre, i haven't thought what happens if the same bug is in two blueprints, so yes, it can be a bit weird...
<knome> condector, hello!
<condector> hi knome 
<knome> so basically we usually require people to take the usual route to become an officially registered ubuntu mirror in launchpad
<condector> I come to contrib a little bit with resources to project
<condector> hum
<knome> this helps us with keeping our information up-to-date
<condector> I see, but the ubuntu itself is really huge
<knome> yes...
<knome> let me dig up some information about this
<knome> we don't want to require sharing ubuntu...
<condector> I already mirror LibreOffice, CentOS, Clamav, and think that I also could contrib as a mirror to Xubuntu (I see that to mirror the project itself not need a lot of space)
<knome> pleia2, ping for you too since you have been handling these things before
<condector> thanks
<knome> i think we'll need to create a xubuntu.org page for this in order to make sure we give out the same instructions to everybody who wants to help :)
<condector> Yes, I search for it you know
<knome> condector, to make sure we don't forget your question, could you please send us mail at xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com (and preferably subscribe before you do so we don't have to manually approve posts) with all the information you've told us above
<condector> When I create our first mirror for CentOS, I use their wiki to do the first sync using rsync, and when I finished the first sync, I send an e-mail with my IP, domain, bandwidth and "capabilities" (http, ftp, rsync, etc).
<condector> knome, ok. I will do that.
<knome> yes, i think we'll want that kind of information as well, but probably in another low-traffic and not publily archived list
<condector> ok.
<knome> (sorry for the silence, i'm writing a draft of the mirror page; if you have any further questions or want to discuss something, feel free to and i'll likely reply)
<condector> done knome 
<knome> cheers
<knome> i'll reply after i've done the work with this page
<condector> knome, I also send on the list this link: https://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/CreatePublicMirrors
<knome> yeah, thanks
<condector> Was the steps that I followed to become a CentOS mirror, maybe could help you
<condector> cheers.
<condector> a better one: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Infra/Mirroring
<knome> right, these are more of a technical documentation on getting set up
<condector> yes
<knome> useful too, though
<knome> ok, first public draft is out
<knome> condector, pleia2, Unit193: https://xubuntu.org/dev/mirrors
<knome> comments?
<condector> Ok, let me read.
<condector> very good
<knome> and replied to your mail as well
<knome> i'll want input from both pleia2 and Unit193 before we go on full public and official, but after that we should be fine with going ahead
<condector> I see it right now. :D
<condector> Maybe a second page on future to help new mirrors but with the "tweaks" that you said on this draft page.
<condector> Could be helpfull too. 
<knome> maybe... though the issue is (from my POV) that we are such a small team that I don't want to promise help for everybody setting up
<Unit193> 1. Errant space 'least  by'.  2. Preferred capoltization is 'freenode'.  3. Sure this is all correct for flavor mirrors as well?  4. In desired info under "HTTP URL", "whether you plan to support TLS" or somesuch?  5. Perhaps have a closing that it'd be good to notify if one expects to have extended downtime or no longer desires to mirror.
<condector> I see knome, no problem.
<knome> Unit193, ack, feel free to go edit directly
<condector> Unit193, on other projects they use mirmon to "auto remove" inactive mirrorÂ´s
<condector> like this one: https://download.documentfoundation.org/mirmon/
<knome> ubuntu might do that, but i don't think that's in our scope...
<condector> ah, I see
<Unit193> knome: But there's still the links on the site.
<knome> we usually check the mirrors at least once before and after release
<knome> Unit193, what links?
<Unit193> And alright, figured you were better at wording. :P
<knome> this was rather hastily put together
<knome> and we can iterate...
 * condector smile
<flocculant> bluesabre: ignore the mail - I got time to do draft on x.org > https://xubuntu.org/?p=4415&preview=true
<pleia2> knome: for clarity, I'd rewrite: "You will need to provide the downloads at least  by HTTP, but you can optionally provide FTP and rsync as well. SSL is strongly recommended.
<pleia2> instead: "You will need to provide the downloads at least by HTTP, preferably HTTPS, but you can optionally provide FTP and rsync as well."
<pleia2> otherwise lgtm
<Unit193> <link rel='shortlink' href='https://xubuntu.org/?p=4362' />  well that's baked, mirrors.telianet.dk and mirrors.telianet.dk nxdomain, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/mirrors.fe.up.pt-release 404s, as does http://ftp.yzu.edu.tw/Linux/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu/16.04/release/
<knome> ok, tackling the wording and additional stuff next
<knome> Unit193, re: 3) i don't think there is anything that is "correct" or "incorrect" for flavor mirrors
<knome> Unit193, aiui, you can't register an official mirror in LP without serving ubuntu, am i right?
<Unit193> That'd be my guess.
<knome> this is only for those mirrors who only want to serve xubuntu
<knome> if you serve ubuntu, then go the usual route
<knome> if not, then still kind of meet the requirements and leave us a note.
<knome> make sense?
<knome> 4 --> "Your HTTP(S) URL and optionally FTP and rsync URLs" ?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> for Unit193 too as he commented on that
<knome> that's from the "registering" part
<knome> the other part is modded as you suggested
<pleia2> thanks
<Unit193> \o/
<knome> and the page is updated with all things now
<Unit193> knome: Yes, thanks for writing it up.
<knome> go see!
<knome> np
<knome> i had just the right time and motivation slot, so hurray
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> "but you can be more specific if you will" is weird, I'd just say "but you may be more specific"
<knome> ok
<knome> another update, refresh your browser
<pleia2> lgtm
<knome> Unit193, helps me more if you refer with the mouseover tooltips, that's what i see in the admin
<Unit193> knome: I could do that, but I too am not checking manually so would have to find them.
<Unit193> I wondered where in the world ?p=4362 so searched the source even. :P
<knome> Unit193, mirrors.fe ... doesn't give me 404
<knome> oh
<knome> that link does
<knome> hmm
<knome> err
<Unit193> Yeah, info page.
<knome> the non-working mirrors are removed from the list
<Unit193> Thanks.
<knome> and non-working info link removed
<knome> should we be more exact on the contact info?
<knome> i guess i mostly meant "email address"
<knome> we don't need postal addresses or such nonsense
<knome> do we want to make the mirror instructions official now or is there any reason to sleep overnight?
<pleia2> make it so!
<knome> oki
<knome> and let's announce on the mailing list tii
<knome> too too
<pleia2> k
<knome> and done
<slickymaster>  /away "At work"
<knome> no
<knome> :P
<knome> (have fun)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-terminal 0.8.7 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-terminal-0-8-7-released-tp50713.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<pleia2> I told the social media internet too
<knome> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ping https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/find-cursor/+merge/339500
<ochosi> that's needed after the 4.12.2 release of xfce4-settings
<ochosi> also, i still want to push in that little print script as thunar helper, not sure in which package to put it though (xubuntu-default-settings currently doesn't contain any scripts). any ideas?
<ochosi> anyway, put the PR there just in case: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/thunar-uca-print/+merge/339501
<bluesabre> ochosi: xubuntu-default-settings seems sensible. We ship the xdg-xubuntu-templates script there
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> currently finalizing my find-cursor branch
<ochosi> i'm ready to merge now to the 4.12 branch
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> bluesabre: want me to squash the history..?
<ochosi> somehow i'm not a huge fan of squashing...
<bluesabre> ochosi: it's your call :)
<ochosi> whooop-dee-doo, and it's pushed
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-terminal 0.8.7.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-terminal-0-8-7-1-released-tp50719.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<bluesabre> ochosi: awesome-er :D
<bluesabre> anything else you want in that release?
<ochosi> i think i'm pretty good
<ochosi> the only downside is the new (untranslated) strings
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> but we can do another translation release later too
<ochosi> it's not a huge problem
<bluesabre> if you want to also merge your 4.13 version of that, we can get a week of translations before we release
<ochosi> (and it's just two strings, of which one is a tooltip)
<ochosi> hrm, right. that may be an option
<bluesabre> or just release and do a translations bump in a month
<bluesabre> I'm content either way
<ochosi> same here
<ochosi> personally i prefer the current string
<ochosi> i reworked it before the push just to be sure
<ochosi> oh also
<ochosi> in this case no translations
<ochosi> i always worked on user branches
<ochosi> so there's only one option, release now and then do a translation release
<ochosi> regarding the print script, where would you put that? simply /usr/bin?
<ochosi> <packaging-noob-alert>
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> that might be right
<bluesabre> How much work would it be to catch https://git.xfce.org/users/ochosi/xfce4-settings/?h=find-cursor up to find-cursor-4.12?
<bluesabre> might be weird releasing a new feature in the stable release without it existing in the dev release
<ochosi> probably not that much
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i can "frontport" all those things until friday latest
<ochosi> if that's good enough for you
<bluesabre> certainly
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [find-cursor] r651 Add keyboard shortcut for xfce4-find-cursor... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r652 Add custom action for thunar-print... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<bluesabre> Will probably plan 4.12.2 to go out wednesday anyway to get it in before FF
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> so pushing the thunar-print script would be fine just to /usr/bin?
<bluesabre> I think so
<bluesabre> Unit193 might have a better preference
<bluesabre> the resident packaging guru
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i updated the branch with the script so he has an easier time fixing it up
<ochosi> Unit193: could you please review? https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/thunar-uca-print/+merge/339501 thanks!
<ochosi> alrighty, now i just need to do another notifyd-release to rid us from the crashes
<bluesabre> woo!
<bluesabre> ochosi: looking forward to that one ;)
<ochosi> plus brought back hyperlink support
<ochosi> and added an option to clear the icon cache
<ochosi> (and some more minor bugfixes)
<bluesabre> all great news
<bluesabre> got a nice pa-plug update coming in a day or so
<bluesabre> biggest feature is auto-switching of the audio output for active streams
<bluesabre> bionic is going to be a lovely lts :)
<ochosi> weeee
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> nighty all
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-19
<DarkTrick> Which gtk-theme is used for the calculator or chrome? 
<DarkTrick> gtk-3.0? gtk-2.0? 
<Dravere> brainwash: Done, and now? :)
<brainwash> now you ask again and then wait for bluesabre to respond
<brainwash> he created https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-sru
<Dravere> Quick question: What would be the best way to help to get Xfwm 4.12.5 into 18.04? I found a bug report about it on Launchpad but there seems to be not activity in regards to it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1796144
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796144 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "ubuntu 18.04 bionic xfwm4 backport 4.12.5" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> Dravere, I'm planning to start the SRU process for that shortly
<bluesabre> I read somewhere that the next stable Firefox release is going to have CSD enabled by default, so we definitely want xfwm 4.12.5
<JackFrost> "By default" implies one can turn it off, yes? :3
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-20
<DarkTrick> I'd like to submit a change suggestion regarding the logout window. What component should I submit this for? ( = where is the appropriate place 
<DarkTrick> to submit it?)
<Dravere> bluesabre: So in regards to help, I guess it is "be patient"? Is there something that can be done during the SRU process to help? I'm totally new to this. Would love to get to know those processes better so to be able to contribute and not only consume in the Linux world.
<knome> Dravere, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<knome> (i don't know which SRU you are talking about so i can't give any specific answers :))
<Dravere> knome, thanks, I'll read through it. It is the SRU process for xfwm 4.12.5 for 18.04 that bluesabre will apparently start shortly.
<albinard> Anything starting up on Xubuntu Core?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-21
<DarkTrick> Can someone tell me what's the "application" is the logout screen?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: supported-cloud: Seed linux-oracle and friends. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=f2fd1cfe4a46d894b57797adb60478b6c65bb607 (by Adam Conrad)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-24
<bluesabre> JackFrost, decided to work on a merge for xfce4-session, want to spot check it? https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+sourcefiles/xfce4-session/4.12.1-6ubuntu1/xfce4-session_4.12.1-6ubuntu1.dsc
<bluesabre> It seems like everything on it's ok, at least after installing in a disco vm
<bluesabre> but there was also just a lot of things inside that merge D:
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-calculator-plugin 0.7.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-calculator-plugin-0-7-0-released-tp52658.html (by Andre Miranda)
<JackFrost> @@ -1,5 +1,4 @@
<JackFrost> -usr
<JackFrost> -etc
<JackFrost> +debian/55xfce4-session etc/X11/Xsession.d/
<JackFrost>  debian/defaults.list etc/xfce4/
<JackFrost>  debian/55xfce4-session etc/X11/Xsession.d/
<JackFrost> Hmm, heh.
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Have you uploaded yet?  If not, add xfce4-screensaver to the lockers list too?
<JackFrost> Also upstart is dead, right?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-17
<knome> is it canonical IS who maintains torrent.ubuntu.com?
<knome> i wonder if it was at all possible to have torrent (sym)links that stay valid for the whole LTS cycle
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-20
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add placement-api binary packages to misc-servers. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=a2f5b013f0a3e911734069767604fdd9835c4766 (by Corey Bryant)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add python3-heat-dashboard binary package to misc-servers. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=6b5eb3174ad8d77e10833b3249e5e7e5611ac227 (by Corey Bryant)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-23
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-weather-plugin 0.10.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-weather-plugin-0-10-1-released-tp57414.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> Well, nice Pidgin x.x
<JackFrost> Hmm?
<bluesabre> Got shortly kicked for flood :D
