#ubuntu-women-project 2010-03-29
<nigelb> akgraner, thank you (was asleep, just waking up :) )
<nhandler> akgraner: I got around to listening to you on FLOSS Weekly. It was an interesting episode
<akgraner> nhandler, thanks - well interesting means so many things :-)  I hope that is a good interesting
<nhandler> akgraner: Yep. It was a nice episode. I got a different sort of perspective about the women in the community. I'm still jealous that I don't qualify for any of these great prize packs you all are giving out ;)
<akgraner> nhandler, ;-P
<dholbach> good morning
<Pendulum> hypa7ia, maco: ping?
<hypa7ia> Pendulum: sup!
<Pendulum> you were interested in the AAC project, right?
<Pendulum> I'm asking for kinda 2 reasons
<hypa7ia> remind me what it is?
<Pendulum> (that got discussed at my membership meeting)
 * hypa7ia has a brain like a sieve these days
<hypa7ia> oh right!
<hypa7ia> yes yes yes
<Pendulum> 1) we're getting closer to a point where we'll be looking for more people and I wanted to check to see who was still interested
<hypa7ia> meeeeee
<Pendulum> and 2) I think I just volunteered to help resurrect the accessibility team and I wasn't sure if your interest was AAC specific, or general accessibility specific
<hypa7ia> i'm interested in accessibility in general
<Pendulum> cool
<Pendulum> I may poke you for stuff on that at some point
<Pendulum> I'm in a weird position where I was trying not to be interested in ubuntu accessibility (just because I *have to* be interested in accessibility everywhere else in my life) and then I started having too many fine motor problems so it became a priority
<Pendulum> and I discovered that the team mostly didn't exist anymore and hadn't really done much in years
<Pendulum> which I think needs to be fixed
<Pendulum> so I'm going to do something about it
<hypa7ia> Pendulum: i'm happy to help where i can.  while it sucks that it has to be you taking it on, i'm glad you're feeling up to it :)
<Pendulum> hypa7ia: nothing gets me energy like feeling like I can fix some marginalization ;)
<Pendulum> or at least make things slightly easier for the next person
<Pendulum> not to mention that as far as I can tell all the wiki.ubuntu.com documentation for accessibility stuff is for 6.06 or earlier. which really should be fixed
<hypa7ia> wow, yeah
<Pendulum> I suspect it's a matter of that's where people have their stable set-ups
<Pendulum> especially as from mailing list stuff it sounds like gnome is removing some of the stuff that makes orca work so accessibility may be very broken for lucid or lucid+1 for people with visual impairments
<hypa7ia> oh no :(
<hypa7ia> sucks that it's happening at lucid
<Pendulum> I know :(
<hypa7ia> which is also an LTS release
<Pendulum> yeah
<IdleOne> can someone remind me the ubuntu translations team #?
<IdleOne> Good evening btw :-)
<Pendulum> #ubuntu-translators
<Pendulum> hi IdleOne
<IdleOne> thank you Pendulum :-)
<IdleOne> and hello
<IdleOne> Pendulum: have you done much translation and would you suggest I translate an entire page of a wiki and then post or do a little at a time and have the page live?
<IdleOne> right now I am not sure how I should procede :/
<IdleOne> having the page live makes it ugly if not completely done
<IdleOne> but if I say work on one page how do I let other people know that I am working on it to avoid doubling of efforts
 * IdleOne took a big bite and now is trying to figure out how to chew and not spit it out :)
<IdleOne> I guess I could put a place holder on the wiki page with info that it is being worked on by me and ask other users to do the same
<Pendulum> Pendulum: I have done no translation work. I'm only fluent in English and as the only other language I know is French and there are many more much better French speakers than I, I'd rather just let them do it than need them to fix my mistakes ;)
<Pendulum> err
<Pendulum> IdleOne: ^^
<IdleOne> Pendulum: well I was asking more about what you thought the best way to procede would be.
<Pendulum> is this on the UW wiki?
<IdleOne> but yeah if you feel like jumping in and doing some translation of the UW-wiki.org that would be great :)
<IdleOne> yes
<IdleOne> err wiki-UW.org
<IdleOne> but yes
<Pendulum> do you care if other people work on the same page as long as there's no overlap in actual translation?
 * IdleOne failed at simplifying the wiki link :/
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-03-30
<IdleOne> Pendulum: well that is the whole thing. I want to try and avoid over lapping of efforts
<Pendulum> (I don't know what page you've grabbed, but I wonder if other people could do other sections on the same page)
<pleia2> I'd think multiple translators is preferred (error checking, making sure no one puts bad things in)
<Pendulum> yeah, that's why I'm thinking set up the translation page even if it doesn't look pretty while in progress
<IdleOne> pleia2: I have declared myself as unofficial checker of bad things. I will be reading all the pages and making sure everything is accurate.
<Pendulum> and then let people know it's there and that you're working on it, it's just in progress
<pleia2> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/HowToTranslateWiki
<pleia2> but it's a million years old
<IdleOne> heh think I should of actually read the main page :/
<pleia2> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Translators also, but again, very old
<pleia2> these are pages we moved over from wiki.ubuntu.com back in 2007 or something
<pleia2> when we first got our own wiki
<IdleOne> I'm sure most of it still apllies
<IdleOne> applies*
<IdleOne> I just want to try and do this as efficiently as possible. I realize that it is going to take time but doubling of efforts will take more time
<Pendulum> IdleOne: obviously I should have just answered "ask pleia2, she knows all." :P
<IdleOne> haha
<IdleOne> I always default to pleia2 :) figured I might try and give her a break
<IdleOne> and ask someone else
<pleia2> I should have remembered these pages when IdleOne was talking about this the other day
 * pleia2 brain fail for a bit
 * Pendulum hugs pleia2 
 * pleia2 hugs :)
<IdleOne> pleia2: it was late when we talked about it
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I think I tend to default to "I only speak english, I don't know anything about translations"
<IdleOne> and the focus of that convo was more about how to include people from other countries who don't speak english into this project
 * pleia2 nods
<IdleOne> translation was sorta dumped into it
<IdleOne> :P
<Pendulum> IdleOne: have you worked on translations for non-UW stuff?
<Pendulum> (so stuff on wiki.ubuntu.com)
<IdleOne> Also, translation of the wiki is great but it still leaves a divide in terms of inclusion into the irc channels and mailing list
<IdleOne> Pendulum: I haven't
<Pendulum> maybe talk to the team for that to ask what best practice is?
<Pendulum> also, issyl0 might know (although I"m sure she's asleep right now)
<IdleOne> yes I am in the translators channel but it is quiet right now
<maco> Pendulum: im also interested in a11y in general, though my preferred desktop does not have an SP-API stuff :(  well, maybe 10.04 does, not sure if that got into kde 4.4 or is waiting for 4.5
<Pendulum> maco: cool :)
<maco> i dont actually *know* anything about doing a11y programming, but i'm up for learning
<Pendulum> neither does anyone else I know
<maco> pleia2: do you have a wii?
<pleia2> maco: yeah, but I don't have a tv right now
<maco> pleia2: do you have a pink wiimote?
<pleia2> maco: no, they have pink covers though
<maco> pleia2: pm me your address
<pleia2> !
<pleia2> ok :)
<nigelb> that was a fun scroll back
<IdleOne> Ok the French version of the UW wiki has been moved back to /Fr to comply to wiki translation standards
<IdleOne> far from complete but started
<IdleOne> pleia2 asked me to discuss in here before editing http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UWMenuHeader
<IdleOne> reason against or for?
<pleia2> I don't really want to add to it - already it is squished when I view the pages on my mini9
<pleia2> what do you want to add?
<IdleOne> I don't want to add anything
<pleia2> change?
<IdleOne> I just needed the link so I could translate it
<pleia2> oh
<pleia2> you said "edit" :)
 * IdleOne is not going to "change" anything on the wiki. Plan is to have a carbon copy of the wiki and all it's pages
<IdleOne> I did say edit :/ sowwie
<pleia2> but yeah, for anything like that you can look at Raw Text and see: <<Include(UWMenuHeader)>>
<pleia2> or somesuch
<IdleOne> ok thank you
<pleia2> sure thing
<IdleOne> pleia2: and if there is anything that would be considered an addition to the wiki i would discuss it here first :)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> sub pages don't matter much, we want everyone to edit those
<pleia2> but the main page we like to talk about when people make changes
<IdleOne> oh I hope I don't end up doing it all myself lol
<pleia2> especially the header, since it's on every page ;)
<IdleOne> main page is almost finished. Sub pages I hope to get help <<poke issyl0>>
<IdleOne> hehe
<pleia2> :D
<JanC> IdleOne: it's about 2am for issyl0, so I guess she's getting some sleep before going to school later today  ;)
<IdleOne> JanC: yeah, I figured as much
<IdleOne> pleia2: I am thinking that maybe translating the UWMenuHeader is not a good idea just yet.
 * IdleOne will wait on that
<pleia2> fair enough :)
<IdleOne> only because I don't understand the coding enough to have [[Home|UW Wiki Home]] direct to the /Fr page
<IdleOne> damn I am getting good at this
<IdleOne> :D
<JanC> does the wiki have automatic redirects or something like that?
<IdleOne> yes [[Home|UW Wiki Home]] will redirect to /Home [[Fr|UW Wiki Home]] now redirects back to the home page for wiki-ubuntu-women.org/Fr
 * IdleOne is learning wiki editing :)
<JanC> but what if a page doesn't exist in French yet?
<IdleOne> JanC: it needs to be created
<JanC> so no automatic fallback?
<IdleOne> at the moment we have /Fr and /Fr/AFaire
<JanC> I somehow doubt moinmoin is really suitable for l10n  :-/
<akgraner> so you can see all the subpages that UW has then see which ones you still need to do
<akgraner> do you need a list?
<IdleOne> the fall back is wiki.ubuntu-women.org  pages will be created as they are translated and ready to be posted. I will keep an eye on the ToDo page aka /Fr/AFaire and when pages are posted as complete or in progress I will also make sure that they comply with the original version
<IdleOne> akgraner: yes please :)
<JanC> I was more thinking about how to keep links working properly etc.
<IdleOne> so I am taking it upon myself to be the "fact checker and no stupid stuff checker"
<IdleOne> I hope that is not to forward of me
<IdleOne> any other French speaking members that the team trust is also more then welcome to check my checks
<IdleOne> trusts*
<JanC> IdleOne: in my locoteam, I welcome everybody who wants to do real work, and I'm sure that's no different in the U-W team  ;)
<akgraner> I'll stick a list of subpages off the main UW page so you can just see them
<IdleOne> JanC: Oh, I know that this work is appreciated. I just don't want anyone to think that I have appointed myself leader.
<IdleOne> when it comes to the translation of the wiki
<JanC> personally I prefer people to be accepted as leaders instead of being appointed  ;)
<IdleOne> JanC: I volunteered to do this so I feel a certain responsibility now to make sure it is done properly is all I am trying to say :)
<akgraner> IdleOne,  thanks for doing these pages :-)
<IdleOne> it is my pleasure :)
<IdleOne> but since you are here
<JanC> IdleOne: well, you have appointed yourself as a potential leader, let's hope others follow you, and if possible become leaders too  ;)
<IdleOne> JanC: :)
<IdleOne> akgraner: do I need to upload the .png to each new page that includes the UWMenuHeader?
<IdleOne> or is there a way to have them all link back to one central location?
<akgraner> one sec I'll get you what you need to put {{  }}  in between
<akgraner> IdleOne, have you seen this - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide
<IdleOne> I have now :)
 * pleia2 grins
<pleia2> akgraner: bet you never would have thought you'd be such a wiki expert! :)
 * IdleOne reminds pleia2 and elky of the promise they made
<akgraner> pleia2, nope - this love hate thing is becoming more love these days :-)
<pleia2> hehe
<IdleOne> kick me in the butt if/when I start to slack
<pleia2> :)
<JanC> wikis have always been great, just sometimes the easy editing has some drawbacks
<akgraner> attachment:page_the_icon_is_on/icon_name.png
<akgraner> IdleOne, you can also use the icons on the icon link on the wikiguide page I just posed
<akgraner> posted even
<IdleOne> AAAAAAAH HA
<IdleOne> by George I got it
<IdleOne> <<Include(UWMenuHeaderFr)>>
<IdleOne> :P
<IdleOne> I knew there was a reason why I translated that lol
<IdleOne> thank you for the link akgraner I will read that
<akgraner> IdleOne, the page I sent you for the NC team has how to do the includes and how to create the tables etc
<IdleOne> yup put that in my Tomboy also :)
<akgraner> :-)
<elky> what promise?
<IdleOne> elky: to kick me in the but if/when I start to slack on the translation of the UW wiki
<IdleOne> butt*
<IdleOne> I have done plenty for tonight :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<dholbach> good morning
<digitalshankar> hi evertbody!!!!!
<digitalshankar> anybody for a chat?
<digitalshankar> on ubuntu?
<IdleOne> akgraner pleia2 ping
<IdleOne> is there a way to set translations/edits to the UW wiki to require approval by 1 or several members before it is allowed to be posted live?
<IdleOne> by several members I mean that either X,Y or Z can approve the translation.
<IdleOne> http://planet.ubuntu-women.org/ Why does it not have the UW logo?
<IdleOne> :/
<IdleOne> I love the Ubuntu logo, for those who don't know yet I have it tattooed on my forearm but it would be nice to have the official team logo on the planet
<nigelb> IdleOne, you have it tattooed? o_0
<IdleOne> I do
<nigelb> wow
<IdleOne> nigelb: http://idle-one.blogspot.com/search?q=tattoo
<nigelb> IdleOne, wow, its awesome :)
<IdleOne> :) Thank you
<AlanBell> ooh that was you!
<AlanBell> I have seen that before
<nigelb> AlanBell, ah, I never got the page suggestion btw
<IdleOne> AlanBell: yup that is me
<AlanBell> nigelb: oh, that sucks. Facebook sucks.
<nigelb> :D
<czajkowski> AlanBell: oi oi
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> that reminds me, I'm now admin of that page...
<czajkowski> as that a mistake
<AlanBell> no, I don't make mistakes
<AlanBell> :-)
<czajkowski> nutter
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> It popped up a thing asking who I wanted to make admins
<AlanBell> I did the "suggest to your friends" thing a couple of times but I am not sure it did anything
<AlanBell> maybe I need new friends
<czajkowski> AlanBell: sent 40 invitewss
<AlanBell> thanks
<AlanBell> wonder what I did wrong
<maco> leann just got upload rights to the kernel!
<nigelb> w00t, yaay! :)
<akgraner> woot woot!!!
<maco> leann's irc nick = ogasawara if you want to congratulate her in #ubuntu-kernel
<pleia2> IdleOne: when the website was designed, we didn't have a logo
<pleia2> redesign of the website wasn't a priority when we had fewer volunteers, it will be for the 10.10 cycle
<nigelb> IdleOne, if you need help with the wiki header btw, let me know :)
<pleia2> IdleOne: and no, there isn't really an approval queue mechanism for the wiki
<IdleOne> nigelb: I think I got it figured out. Did you notice something I missed?
<nigelb> IdleOne, I was just reading yday night's scroll back
<IdleOne> pleia2: yes, I got some info from the -translators and maco was nice to point me into the right direction also
<IdleOne> nigelb: ahh, ok :)
<IdleOne> err -translators and #moin
<IdleOne> so i think I am now subscribe to /Fr/* which should send me email about any changes made and pages created under /Fr
<IdleOne> well I think I need to go out into the fresh air and take a little walk.
<IdleOne> be back in a little while
<issyl0> Hello
<nigelb> heya issyl0 :)
<pleia2> IdleOne: do you want to use http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Translators ?
<pleia2> someone just updated her info there, so we should probably do *something* with it
<IdleOne> pleia2: use in what sense?
<pleia2> IdleOne: add yourself to the list, encourage others to, clean it up if there are inaccuracies
<IdleOne> pleia2: good idea
<IdleOne> will do that now
<pleia2> thanks :)
<akgraner> this is so cool - and exciting :-)
<pleia2> yeah :)
<IdleOne> ok done and also updated /Fr/AFaire and took Translators page to work on
<IdleOne> pleia2: I am not receiving emails from U-W wiki when changes are made :/
<IdleOne> akgraner: I have to admit that this is really the first "real" work I have done in Ubuntu.
<IdleOne> Don't think I could of picked a better project :)
<akgraner> IdleOne, it's a great place to start  - that's for sure :-)
<IdleOne> Well I mean besides being my usual sarcastic self
<IdleOne> :P
<akgraner> IdleOne, when you make changes you won't get emails
<IdleOne> ahh ok
<akgraner> however, when other people do you will :-)
<akgraner> IdleOne, I said the same thing when I started working on wikis
 * pleia2 has a pile of IdleOne changes stuff on the wiki emails ;)
<nigelb> lol pleia2
<nigelb> I wonder about dholbach
<akgraner> well that and a lot of grumbling about "hating" them :-)  pleia2 my inbox has a lot from IdleOne as well :-)
<pleia2> nigelb: wonder about?
<IdleOne> I bet you do pleia2
<nigelb> he's subscribed to *every* page
<IdleOne> but I am learning to use the preview button :P
<pleia2> nigelb: oh, on the wiki.u.c wiki, yeah
<pleia2> IdleOne :)
<nigelb> pleia2, :)
<IdleOne> pleia2: just filter any mail from oneidle to trash hehe
<pleia2> I'm subscribed to every page on UW, but it's not quite as large
<IdleOne> well I hope to be getting lots of emails :)
<IdleOne> if not means I am on my own
<IdleOne> heh
<IdleOne> I need a 42" monitor
<IdleOne> s/need/want
<jussi01> IdleOne: dont we all?
<IdleOne> I would hope so :)
<IdleOne> I also NEED caffeine
 * IdleOne gets caffeine
<pleia2> IdleOne: just use 16 virtual desktops like I do
 * pleia2 waves to jussi01 
<jussi01> hiya pleia2
<maco> IdleOne: SHINY https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems?action=raw
<IdleOne> packagingGuide?
 * IdleOne looks before asking the next question
 * pleia2 really needs to get up to speed with quilt
<maco> pleia2: heh glad you asked
<IdleOne> maco: yes that would be a good page to translate also
<maco> pleia2: http://www.wzdftpd.net/blog/index.php?2008/02/05/3-quilt-a-patch-management-system-how-to-survive-with-many-patches
<pleia2> maco: yeah, I have that, haven't digested :)
<maco> IdleOne: no no look how they do translation
<maco> IdleOne: see the include from start-english to end-english?
<IdleOne> I don't understand what that does
<maco> hmm i guess its too late to do that to the menu at the top of pages...
<maco> oh and theyd link the wrong place...
<maco> nevemrind
<IdleOne> lol
<IdleOne> ok
<maco> i just thought it was neat that they were like... having a page in lots of translations then including just the translation they wanted in the actual packaging guide page
<IdleOne> ok time for some food and t.v.
 * jussi01 grumbles at slow torrents... 
<jussi01> Im only getting 1.2 MiB/s...
<pleia2> akgraner: you leading the lucid UOW -women session on awesome stuff we're doing?
<pleia2> (seems most appropriate)
<akgraner> pleia2, I added my name to the wiki :-)
<pleia2> ah ok, /me should have refreshed
<pleia2> I looked earlier :)
<akgraner> thought since I am hounding the rest of the community it was the least I could do :-)
<pleia2> :)
<akgraner> hehe
<akgraner> but anyone who wants to help once it is scheduled can join in on all the fun (hint hint hint)
 * pleia2 avoids eye contact
<czajkowski> aloha folks
<akgraner> pleia2, hehe
<akgraner> pleia2, however I will need help setting up the stuff in the Calendar that Lernid uses
<pleia2> akgraner: sure thing
<akgraner> as I haven't helped with an "Ubuntu Week" since Lernid has been put in place
<pleia2> and there is classbot now too :)
<akgraner> oh cool - gotta get up to speed on those
 * akgraner is such a slacker
<pleia2> hah
<maco> hahaha yeah right
<akgraner> :-P
<czajkowski> akgraner: dont make me come over there and wallop you
<akgraner> czajkowski, the door is open please feel free to visit :-)
<czajkowski> akgraner: you do know that would such a bad idea :)
<czajkowski> akgraner: neither of us would get any work done
<czajkowski> akgraner: shootin' n drinkin'
<maco> i hope not at the same time!
<czajkowski> oh but of course at the same time!
<czajkowski> just in from a podcast on open source in ireland and the barcamp I run over here
<czajkowski> 3 weeks to go and only 19 spaces left to attend with 2 spots to fill :D
<akgraner> maco, haha - nah  - shooting and driving are two things I def won't do while drinking
<maco> czajkowski: sounds like a good way to deadin'
<czajkowski> maco: but I've good aim :)
<IdleOne> anybody care to explain what i18n is?
<IdleOne> context: The Open-Source Software i18n (internationalization) world is both diverse and inclusive
<IdleOne> ahh found it
<AlanBell> i followed by 18 letters then n
<IdleOne> clever
<IdleOne> AlanBell: :)
<AlanBell> nternationalizatio
<AlanBell> but it has an S in it!!
<AlanBell> internationaliSation
<rww> obviously, they use i18n instead to keep the en_GB people quiet ;P
<IdleOne> in your world it does :P
<pleia2> rww: lol
<IdleOne> i18n works for the french word also
<IdleOne> heh
 * IdleOne is learning so much :)
<IdleOne> I want to go on Sesame street now and sing a song
<IdleOne> lol
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation/WordSubstitution
<MichelleQ> sing, sing a song...  make it simple, to last the whole year long...
<MichelleQ> sorry...
 * MichelleQ wanders off
<IdleOne> *in a sweet angel like voice* Mommy don't stop singing :)
<rww> IdleOne: Go get some Severed Fifth, let jono sing to you! or play music. or whatever it is he does.
<rww> apparently everything!
<IdleOne> Severed Fifth
<IdleOne> hmm sounds crazy enough for me to like them
<IdleOne> cyphermox from the ubuntu-qc team asked me to add http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Fr/AFaire to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuebecTeam/AFaire \o/ for collaboration between teams
<pleia2> IdleOne: cool, thanks :)
<IdleOne> pleia2: :)
<IdleOne> only thing is I did not add the MenuHeader to the quebec team page because I did not want to highjack their wiki :)
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-03-31
<pleia2> IdleOne: I'm thinking of adding the translations signup bit to the top of the page
<pleia2> does the page need to be edited much content-wise? I can clean up dead links at least
<IdleOne> on /Translators?
<IdleOne> go ahead I have not actually started it yet
<IdleOne> OMG jack is not holding to page style :/
 * IdleOne is going to have to write up the HowToEditThisWiki page 
<nigelb> just link it, I think its already there
<IdleOne> nigelb: yeah but it doesn't exist yet
<pleia2> oh boy, http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/HowToTranslateWiki still has references from when it was on wiki.u.c
<IdleOne> pleia2: if you can clean that up I will add it to the ToDo page :)
<IdleOne> let me know what pages you feel need translation ASAP
<IdleOne> mmmmm mini cheese cupcakes :)
<IdleOne> OMG!!!! Dude is breaking links and stuff
<IdleOne> idea for Ubuntu Open Week "How to properly edit and Translate wiki pages/ Don't break the links""
<pleia2> :\
<IdleOne> I am not offering
<IdleOne> just think it would be a good class
<IdleOne> I think what he is doing is not including links to other pages because they are not translated yet
<IdleOne> but we can get to that in time
<IdleOne> breaking the link just makes it harder to find at a later date for someone to go ahead and translate it
<pleia2> ok, there is no way I'll be able to rewrite this page
<pleia2> supporting translations in any formal way is actually quite a project
<IdleOne> indeed
<IdleOne> We need an wiki editing application, something that will grab the page you want let you edit it offline and when you are done commit it to the correct page.
<IdleOne> :/
<IdleOne> all the while it should magically keep links to other pages intact and all that good stuff
<IdleOne> wow that was fun
<IdleOne> had to hard reboot, computer froze solid
<czajkowski> IdleOne: I copy stuff into tomboy and use that
<dholbach> good morning
<Tm_T> good morning
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-01
<dholbach> good morning
<IdleOne> pleia2: Let me know when the Translators page is ready to be translated. I saw you did some cleaning up of the page :) when you are done I will go ahead and do the French version.
<nigelb> Quit: Coyote finally caught me :D :D
<jussi01> nigelb: I think thats default on one of the clients iirc
<nigelb> jussi01, oh, I didn't know.  I have to ask amber what client she uses
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-02
<akgraner> what is the link to the Share Ubuntu stuff?  anyone know off the top of your head?
<czajkowski> akgraner: do you mean spread ubuntu ?
<czajkowski> http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
<IdleOne> scuse the up coming flood
<IdleOne> CONTEXT:
<IdleOne> [22:17:28] <IdleOne> could use a strong voice at UDS to get more support
<IdleOne> [22:17:37] <pleia2> I had an hour long call with Amber last night about it and other related things
<IdleOne> [22:17:44] <pleia2> and I hate phones :)
<IdleOne> [22:18:01] <andrew> but.. your g1?
<IdleOne> [22:18:03] <IdleOne> yeah I see wiki updates in my inbox several times a day :)
<IdleOne> [22:18:13] <pleia2> she's been busy so I've been picking up the slack, but gosh I don't know anything about translations
<IdleOne> [22:18:25] <pleia2> she's going to have a translations dude look at the howtotranslatewikis doc
<IdleOne> [22:19:08] <IdleOne> pleia2: all you need to know right now is that informally we are kicking butt. Imagine what could happen with full support and people who know how to get this organized properly
<IdleOne> [22:19:51] <pleia2> yeah :)
<IdleOne> [22:21:01] <pleia2> I was actually more willing to let the translations slide than the language-based subteams
<IdleOne> [22:21:15] <pleia2> those subteams could be awesome or awful
<IdleOne> [22:21:46] <pleia2> and having a dozen spring up because people get excited would probably make things lean toward awful :)
<IdleOne> [22:21:53] <IdleOne> I think I might need to put back the Translators page for someone else who can pick it up. I am getting a some extra hours at work
<IdleOne> [22:22:07] <IdleOne> pleia2: I have to agree with that
<IdleOne> [22:22:28] <IdleOne> unless there is strong leaders who are willing to get in there and work hard
<IdleOne> [22:22:30] <pleia2> I am hoping that once we get the howto page done we can call it quits on the translations page (except for the signup bit, that will always change)
<IdleOne> [22:22:44] <pleia2> akgraner suggested getting some loco teams involved
<IdleOne> [22:22:54] <IdleOne> that would be best
<IdleOne> [22:23:21] <IdleOne> loco's already have the team structure and can mobilize
<elky> Can I just say *SQUEE* to all this reeeeeeeeeeally overdue localisation stuff that's happening?
<IdleOne> sure :)
<maco> hehe
<elky> SQUEE! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
<akgraner> :-)
<pleia2> hehe
<IdleOne> So anyway all you nice folks in LoCo's from all around the world, it would be awesome if you could get your people to start translating the wiki.ubuntu-women.org pages :)
<elky> pleia2 would remember how we've tried to ignite this before, but our monolingualness has stalled it soooo bad
<maco> hmmm my loco mostly speaks english
<IdleOne> maco: your set then
<maco> IdleOne: and nothing else
<IdleOne> but you do read/write russian
<elky> maco, *cough*Privilege*cough*
<pleia2> elky: yeah, it's nice to have multi-language people around!
<IdleOne> s/you/YOU
 * akgraner needs to learn some other language
<akgraner> my German teacher told me  not to speak it  - to only demonstrate I could read and write it - she mumbled something about my Southern accent :-/
<IdleOne> pleia2: in that HowToTranslate this wiki page. I think it would be good if we held on to the Ubuntu-Women term and not translate it
<akgraner> but I admire people who speak other languages -- I think that is so cool
<maco> IdleOne: if you mean "look at cyrillic and pronounce but not understand it"...
<elky> I rather agree with IdleOne here. It's like a wordmark.
<IdleOne> elky: exactly
<maco> elky: i would think with more privilege they'd have gone to a school that taught them a second language...
<IdleOne> and maco I didn't understand what you just said to me :/
<maco> IdleOne: i can read russian into speaking-out-loud, but i wont know what it means
<elky> maco, English privilege: being able to get through lift not thinking about needing that stuff.
<IdleOne> maco: ohhh
<elky> er, s/lift/life/
<maco> IdleOne: my russian vocabulary is only about 20 words nowadays, and 10 of them are numbers.
<IdleOne> ok so no russian translation for you
<IdleOne> ummm I am probably off the mark here but akgraner I apologize if I keep side stepping you and going to pleia2 with my ideas
<maco> elky: i would put "doesnt know any foreign languages" in the "did not have the privilege of a good school" category, regardless where one lives
<pleia2> s'just because IdleOne and I are drinking buddies
<IdleOne> haha
<pleia2> (I drink, he listens :P)
<IdleOne> I listen good
<IdleOne> she drinks better
<IdleOne> lol
<pleia2> haha
<akgraner> IdleOne, don't apologize
<akgraner> IdleOne, we are a team
<akgraner> :-)
<IdleOne> akgraner: :)
<elky> maco, I had the opportunity to learn Mandarin. I did not have the desperate need to do so for sake of succeeding in life.
<maco> and? english isnt necessary to succeed everywhere...
<IdleOne> mmm sake
<maco> sometimes our communities try to *make it so*
<elky> s/try//
<maco> i think this translation thing is proof that we're actively trying NOT to make it so
<akgraner> IdleOne, I just keep track of the big picture and help facilitate where I can :-)
<elky> maco, Want a cookie?
<maco> for anyone needing to interact with anyone else in a foreign country, being a monoglot is rather a disadvantage. it just depends what country you're trying to interact with.
<IdleOne> akgraner: ok the big picture is ( as I see it ) concerning this translation project. We need everybody to help :)
<elky> maco, next time you come across keffie_jayx, ask him how english literacy is a privilege.
<akgraner> IdleOne, yep :-)
<elky> Don't take my word for it, take the word of someone who lives in a country where it matters a hell of a lot.
<maco> where does he live again?
<elky> Venezuela
<maco> but wouldnt someone who doesnt know spanish be at a disadvantage in venezuela?
<akgraner> elky does 1200UTC work for you better than 2200 UTC?
<maco> even if they spoke english?
<akgraner> for IRC meetings?
<elky> maco, no.
<maco> (i recall this being problematic for me in france)
<elky> maco, he describes to me how people who come to venezuela expect venezuelans to speak english, and translators are provided if the recipient audience is unable to. Venezuelans who visit the US are expected to speak english.
<akgraner> dang that was phrased badly but I hope you know what I meant
<maco> elky: hrmph. silly english-only people ought to be paying for translators, not having them handed to them free
<elky> maco, English Privilege.
<maco> solution: stop providing free translation service
<elky> And this helps the 3rd world gain 1st world help how?
<maco> venezuela's the third world???
<elky> Pretty much.
<elky> Third world isn't just starving ethiopians.
<elky> latin american countries kinda hug the border between third world and developing nations
<elky> but still. It's not so easy as "stop handing the people with money incentives to invest in your local communities"
<valorie> http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/2010/04/i-love-geeks-on-irc.html
<valorie> happy April Fools, everybody
<valorie> I'm off to see my dad
<IdleOne> later valorie :)
<maco> i tend to think of it more as "stop indulging the lazy americans who don't bother to learn at least one other language or even brush up on a few niceties before traveling abroad"
<valorie> oops, that should have been in the other chan
<valorie> sorry
<elky> maco, yeah, it's not like that.
<elky> maco, even in countries closer to the first world, english is a privilege. The shopkeeper in the tourist district that doesn't speak english is going to lose out to the other shopkeeper who does.
<IdleOne> When I moved to PA I learned to speak the language, Spanish!
<elky> Even in situations like Germans visiting Spain for example, when the Germans speak English, they are going to fall back to that to try communicate.
<maco> IdleOne: heh spanish started in kindergarden when i was in school there
<IdleOne> with 40+ million Spanish speaking people in the US I don't understand how it isn't an official language
<pleia2> there are no official languages
<maco> oh there is no way a shop could survive here without at least someone there speaking spanish
<maco> (in my neighborhood i mean)
<IdleOne> even in Canada where there are roughly 3-4 million French speaking people We have two official languages
<maco> the US doesnt have an official language at all
<IdleOne> yet it is english speaking
<pleia2> you can get most federal documents in many languages
<maco> depends where you are exactly
<maco> some places are english speaking
<maco> some, like miami, are not
<maco> or are bilingual at least
<IdleOne> well the goverment uses English
<maco> IdleOne: old white men. it'll change ;-)
<IdleOne> haha
<akgraner> When Pete lived in Brno he learned Czech  - I even learned some as well (forgotten most of it now), but in Brno most people did not /would not speak English to us (the would speak German or Czech) but in Prague almost eveyone spoke English and you are right elky I tended to frequent those places that would speak English to me  - where as my kids and husband spoke enough Czech and German to get by almost anywhere  there
<maco> (though one of my aunts down in florida says that she cant talk to people in her town pretty much at all because she doesnt speak spanish)
 * IdleOne is all for old white men in power to not be there anymore
<elky> akgraner, there are exceptions, sure.
<maco> things i dont plan to do again: travel to non-english countries with my family
<maco> (they seem to think "when in rome..." ends in "be obnoxious" instead of "do as the romans do")
<IdleOne> lol
<maco> (also: they *cannot* pack)
<IdleOne> just that is reason enough
<IdleOne> not being able to pack! OMG like WT..........
<IdleOne> wait, I can't pack either
<maco> i mean they can put stuff in suitcases...but they have to be BIG suitcases...and its far too much stuff
<akgraner> so I am a big fan of learning the Language of where you are visiting - I told my kids they were not allowed to visit other countries and act like arrogant American brats - so they both pick up languages pretty quickly
<maco> an italian man called my sister "bella" (beautiful) the first day we were there. she responded "prego" (you're welcome) instead of "grazi" (thank you)
<IdleOne> maco: I compensate with my lack of packing ability with ability to carry all the suitcases and not complain about it
<IdleOne> maco: that isn't so bad
<akgraner> unlike their mother - :-/  I have a hard time with English at times :-)
<IdleOne> he knew what she meant :)
<IdleOne> I called a lady Sir today on the subway :/
<maco> IdleOne: or at least all the nurses did. the bust out laughing (we were in the "salud mentale" part of l'ospidale waiting for our cousin to show up since he's a doctor there)
<IdleOne> I felt like such a jerk
<maco> IdleOne: or Peppermint Patty
<IdleOne> it was really completely innocent. See there was this man who was not moving out of the lady's way so she could move to a better standing spot and I was thinking of telling the man to " Sir please make some room" and it came out "Sir here take my seat" :/ but I was looking right at the poor women :(
<IdleOne> woman*
<maco> so you accidentally gave away your seat?
<IdleOne> haha NO I accidentally made an ass of myself and probably insulted the lady
<IdleOne> but she smilled and took the seat
<IdleOne> smiled*
 * pleia2 nudges people back to -women
 * IdleOne nudges back
<pleia2> oh gosh, after mentioning it at the meeting and everything I STILL forgot to do to the team report
<rww> pleia2: thanks for reminding me ;P
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> neat, someone prettified our reporting page
<elky> Yeah, I think akgraner and wikis are friends now.
<pleia2> \o/
<elky> I told her the big secret of how to do wiki stuff. Steal it, with prejudice.
<IdleOne> In think the u-w wiki could use some flashy gifs
<IdleOne> :)
<akgraner> :-)  yep
<akgraner> it's more love and so much less hate for wikis these days
<IdleOne> and sparkles
<IdleOne> lots and lots of sparkles
<elky> IdleOne, assuming you mean animated ones, I am now going to stare at you until you repent and beg for mercy.
 * elky commences glaring.
<akgraner> IdleOne, I like clean lines but that is just me
<akgraner> :-)
 * IdleOne glares back
 * IdleOne does not blink
<pleia2> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org/+spec/ubuntu-women-project-m-goals is our current blueprint for -m, right?
<akgraner> I think that is why I like our wikis so much
<IdleOne> errr elky is like a cat, she can stare down a statue :(
<akgraner> yep I need to add the stuff in the right format
<akgraner> pleia2, ^^^
 * IdleOne takes back the animated flashy gif stuff
<pleia2> akgraner: ok thanks, just adding a link to our report
<elky> Whee!
 * elky hugs IdleOne
 * IdleOne hugs back
<akgraner> yep I'll get it in before Saturday night
<IdleOne> pleia2: should I do the little lower joke on elky?
<IdleOne> lol
<akgraner> so I don't have to worry about on Sunday as my Sunday's are all UWN these days :-)
<pleia2> I was wondering, do we want ubuntu membership to be a requirement for team leadership?
<pleia2> I think it sets a good example
<IdleOne> :(
<IdleOne> pleia2: for team leadership?
<pleia2> IdleOne: our project encourages involvement, and to gain membership
<elky> pleia2, I think so. We used to expect it for irc ops, but then a few declined despite eligability. I think for a leadership position though it should be.
 * pleia2 nods
<elky> especially, as you say, one that wants to foster that exact action
<IdleOne> probably a good idea yeah
<akgraner> I think so too but I was wondering as a side why do leaders not have to sign the leader CoC
<IdleOne> guess I need to get my act together and go for membership at some point
<pleia2> by signing the CoC you agree to the LCoC, it's at the bottom
<IdleOne> akgraner: they should
<IdleOne> ops have to agree to it also
<akgraner> I know but do you know how many "leaders" don't know about the LCoC
<pleia2> "In addition to this Code of Conduct, we hold our community leaders (such as IRC operators, Forums staff, team leaders and LoCo coordinators) to an even higher standard which is documented in the Leadership Code of Conduct."
<elky> akgraner, mostly the ones that have been incumbent since last decade
<pleia2> yeah, I wish people would actually read the CoC before signing it
<pleia2> it's not just a TOS :)
<elky> (tehehe, i love saying that)
<akgraner> pleia2, I was just curious that's all and thought maybe it was just me that encounter that
<elky> pleia2, ircland effectively declares it the ToS though. It's the only way we can enforce it.
<pleia2> elky: fair enough, not "just" a ToS then :)
<elky> pleia2, yeah. there's a difference between adopting it as such, and becoming a signatory to it
<IdleOne> I had to sign a CoC for work :/
<IdleOne> made sure I read it completely
 * pleia2 nods
<IdleOne> I didn't want to agree to anything really stupid
<IdleOne> turns out that it was just a piece of paper and nobody really follows or enforces it
<pleia2> heh
<IdleOne> I have heard people tell racist jokes right to the face of black people
<IdleOne> and it just passes like nothing
<IdleOne> anyway not uw related sorry
<pleia2> ok, in case I missed anything: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ReportingPage
<IdleOne> umm translation project?
<IdleOne> not discussed in any formal fashion
<pleia2> it's on there
<pleia2> linked to your email starting the discussion
<IdleOne> ohh haha I skipped right over it
<pleia2> :)
<IdleOne> :)
<IdleOne> then it is perfect :)
 * pleia2 bows
<pleia2> ;)
<pleia2> oh, amber was on floss weekly!
<akgraner> pleia2, yeah remind me to thank you for telling the whole wide world :-P
<pleia2> :D
<IdleOne> haha
<pleia2> gosh, we were busy in march
<IdleOne> Let's keep it up!
<IdleOne> idle hands and all that
<IdleOne> I forgot that the mailing list is a formal discussion forum
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> that's where we prefer to do it TBH
<pleia2> meetings and irc here are grand, but we reach more people with the list
<IdleOne> yes, gets more people involved
<akgraner> yep and we can point more people to the list links
<IdleOne> I think we got 3-4 people from the ML who started to translate and I know I got two people from the global jam
<pleia2> :D
<IdleOne> I'll be able to devote more time starting next week to translating. my schedule changed and I will be starting at 10am
<IdleOne> I do my best work in the morning lol
<elky> akgraner, i had like thirty bajillion people tell me they heard my name mentioned on floss weekly :P
<akgraner> elky, yeah I talked about ya :-P
<akgraner> did you not listen - that earns a kick :-P
<elky> I'm not sure they took a moment to think "oh, this person says she works on stuff with melissa, can't possibly have told her, i'd better clue melissa in"
<elky> I did. I'm still being told daily
<akgraner> hehe
<akgraner> :-P
<akgraner> yeah so I tried to mention a ton of people as the UW Project is not about me but the team
<elky> sofa_repo is um... trying to stir us up.
<maco> yes
<maco> im trying to rebuff without escalating
<maco> and hope he gets bored
<svaksha> maco: he doesnt seem to get the message
<akgraner> hey all  - so we need to announce world play day before the next meeting - so elky and I were tweaking the proposed announcement - can you all take a look and see what you think?  http://etherpad.com/RjdKP1czI6
<IdleOne> looking
 * maco cant read
<maco> i thought you were tweeding the announcement
<maco> as in, covering it with tweed fabric
<elky> ...
 * elky bops maco over the head
<maco> VIOLENCE!
<akgraner> hehe
 * pleia2 *likes* princess dolls
<pleia2> :)
<elky> pleia2, but you also like shiiiiiiiiiiny
<pleia2> princesses can be hackers too! ;)
<pleia2> not actually a critique, just sayin'
<akgraner> hacker Barbie
<IdleOne> So umm why a womans T?
<IdleOne> I admit I didn't read the whole thing
<pleia2> IdleOne: because the entrants are female...
<akgraner> because it will give to a girl
<akgraner> given
<maco> pleia2: oh right! i need to buy you your pink wiimote!
<maco> akgraner: wait shouldnt it be children's T then?
<akgraner> they already sent it
<IdleOne> what if a male wants to enter? /me read first, don't answer that
<pleia2> why the no-derivatives license?
<akgraner> and we went with least common denominator..
<pleia2> IdleOne: the *point* is to get pictures of girls using computers, that's what we're showcasing ;)
<pleia2> akgraner: that means we can't use them in a collage or anything
<elky> maco, at worst it goes to a female parent or an aunt, or whatever
<IdleOne> ok so it will be a T for the child
<IdleOne> got it
<pleia2> I'd lean toward attribution
<maco> pleia2: we can get explicit permission for that, id think
 * IdleOne learns to think/read before shooting off at the mouth
<elky> this is all really project marketing stuff. laying the foundations to get eyes and contributors
<akgraner> I just asked the question
<maco> pleia2: it means other random folks cant use them for random stuff they dont have permission for
<akgraner> I wasn't saying no to the derivatives
<maco> (im sure there are noncommercial uses their parents still wouldnt be ok with)
<akgraner> I was asking if we wanted to limit it
<pleia2> maco: sure, and neither can we, or random locos who do educational outreach and want photos of girls too
<elky> yeah, we should probably say 'for use by the ubuntu project'
<akgraner> I am running the waiver/photo release past Canonical, mdke, and the CC
 * pleia2 nods
<elky> and a waiver is adequate for "remix" by the CC-nd-nc licences
<elky> afaik
<akgraner> elky, how did I word that in the waiver
 * pleia2 winces at NC
<maco> well right, its like a secondary license
<elky> akgraner, i forget, but we can change it. the surrounding words
<elky> maco, it's a waiving of rights
<pleia2> did we explain to jono what random means?
<akgraner> give my permission to the Ubuntu Project, which includes the Ubuntu Women Project
 * pleia2 grins
<elky> pleia2, i think he might know that one this time
<pleia2> hehe
<akgraner> hehe yes he knows :-)
<pleia2> anyway, looks good :)
<maco> oh hahah right
<elky> I really wanted to cry last time.
<elky> i think i had lyz and amber convinced i /was/
<maco> pleia2: ive heard of people having images on flickr that their friends put up and they're in the pic and some corp takes the CC-BY photo and goes "great! we can photoshop in our project and use this for an ad!" and then they get Not Happy
<cleaverroot> I made it
<akgraner> hehe - well now that you mention it
<elky> hi cleaverroot
<maco> pleia2: s/project/product/
<elky> cleaverroot, background: <akgraner> hey all  - so we need to announce world play day before the next meeting - so elky and I were tweaking the proposed announcement - can you all take a look and see what you think?  http://etherpad.com/RjdKP1czI6
<pleia2> maco: yeah, but it also means your photo can't be used in a flier for an ubuntu class that doctormo charges $5 for to cover admin costs
<akgraner> hi cleaverroot
<maco> pleia2: i have *clearly* been around FOSS too much if i think of everything that gets made as "project"
<cleaverroot> elky: hi
<pleia2> anyway, that's why I like attribution :)
<cleaverroot> brb then
<JanC> I'm not entirely following this discussion, but in case of photographs of individuals, I suggest you restrict their usage somewhat
<pleia2> JanC: yes, we are
<maco> pleia2: though i think if more entities paid attention to the fact that you need both A) a license to the photo and B) a model waiver... then i'd put NC in the rubbish bin.
<akgraner> crap which reminds me I need to tell Markdude I used one of his pics for something (he told me I could I just need to let him know what)
 * maco looks back at last sentence
<maco> i've been around british people too mcuh
<JanC> otherwise it can be used for whatever (to promote cornflakes for example)
<elky> I think we might want to hear what mdke/CC say
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> JanC: yes, that's been mentioned :)
<JanC> pleia2: I didn't read all the scrollback yet  âº
<cleaverroot> maco: you started drinking tea too?
<IdleOne> ok folks 6am is coming up fast, good night
<akgraner> right I'll send the concerns in the  email to see how the permission should be worded
<JanC> in some countries commercial usage needs special permission by the model, but e.g. in the Netherlands that's not required
<elky> JanC, we're asking for a model release for all subjects of the photo
<cleaverroot> Is that final copy?
<pleia2> good night, IdleOne
<elky> JanC, did you see the link at all?
<pleia2> cleaverroot: it's the discussion copy (we're discussing it now)
<akgraner> cleaverroot, nope we are tweaking it now
<maco> cleaverroot: i said "rubbish" instead of "trash"
<JanC> elky: what I mean is that a model release is not required in the Netherlands
<elky> JanC, that's wonderful dear, i'm not in the netherlands.
<elky> canonical is not either.
<cleaverroot> k, I think it's a little clunky. I might move first paragraph to second and re-write a first one
<elky> :)
<maco> cleaverroot: i assume you mean the "Firstly, GO READ LINKS!" paragraph?
<cleaverroot> no, I skipped that one I think that is fine
<cleaverroot> let me try to mock one up see what you think
<maco> your definition of "first" and my definition of "first" seem not to agree
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> no no, the OTHER first paragraph!
<pleia2> :)
<elky> your /other/ left.
<JanC> I suggest you allow a non-commercial license, or maybe better a "non-commercial except to promote ubuntu" license
<elky> JanC, a waiver is a waiving of licence rights in the case of the waiver recipient.
<elky> not required does not mean not effective.
<akgraner> cleaverroot, do you want the paragraph that starts "It hurts"  and the links paragraph
<akgraner> after the links one I meant to say
<akgraner> grrrrr
<akgraner> I kinda like leading up the the heavy paragraph but what do you all think
<JanC> what I mean is that with a photograph that's licensed as CC-BY-ND, every company can use that photograph, as long as they don't alter it
<akgraner> dang  I *never* get to bed before midnight  - wow where does the time go?
<maco> akgraner: its midnight? dang.
<maco> oh REALLY DANG
<akgraner> yeah - can you believe it
<maco> homework is due at 2am grrrr
<pleia2> it's not even 10 :D
<elky> akgraner, i dont think this is going out before tomorrow anyway hon
<maco> and takes like 6 hours
<maco> im screwed
<akgraner> elky, yeah - I'll get the email out the the CC, Canonical and mdke for feedback and we can shoot for Monday
<elky> maco, eep, damn how that gastro bug knocked you around tonight isnt it.
<akgraner> is that cool
 * elky winks at maco
<elky> akgraner, i think we can cope with monday, yeah
<maco> elky: what what?
<elky> akgraner, but im not sure easter weekend is going to work quite like that
<elky> maco, email now saying you've been sick since after dinner. or whatever.
<akgraner> dang I knew I forgot something today -
<maco> elky: had a week to do it. he'll just say i shouldve done it yesterday
<elky> maco, :(
<maco> akgraner: to buy baskets?
<elky> then stop yapping, start tapping.
<pleia2> and bunnies!
<akgraner> no Mass..
<pleia2> oops
<elky> akgraner, oops!
<akgraner> yeah - no wonder my kids were confused  *mom fail*
<akgraner> they did not protest too much though :-/
<akgraner> hmmm
<akgraner> anywho so Tuesday may be the better target date
<elky> yeah
<akgraner> on my TODO list and with that I am running away - catch you all laters :-)
<maco> akgraner: ooh holy thursday?
<elky> nini
<akgraner> maco, yep elky night
<maco> sunday... that means NEW DOCTOR WHO!
<pleia2> yaaay!!
<JanC> maybe I should put it somewhat clearer: in the Netherlands, a photo released under a CC-BY-ND license by its photographer could be used by a neo-nazi party as the primary picture for their election campaign
<JanC> (in the Netherlands)
<JanC> that's why I want you to allow NC
<pleia2> JanC: we're working to restrict usage within the ubuntu project, NC makes it so loco teams who charge admin fees for events can't use them, and in general NC is messy business in the US anyway
<JanC> or at least restrict to commercial use involving Ubuntu; people wanting to use that photograph for good purposes can always ask
<JanC> right
<elky> ok, that is clearer. I still want to hear what mdke and the rest of the CC say first
<JanC> I mention this because there is some well-known case-law in the Netherlands about people used in commercials without their permission  ;)
<JanC> and I don't live in the Netherlands, and don't agree with those laws, but they seem to be real...  :-/
<elky> can you cite cases that the legal folk might be able to refer to?
<cleaverroot> k, wrot a short paragraph where do you want me to upload it to
<JanC> I can find a blog post in Dutch
<elky> cleaverroot, etherpad can rewind edits, you can put it right there in the etherpad document itself :)
<cleaverroot> elky: ty
<JanC> elky: http://blog.iusmentis.com/2008/07/03/geen-portretrecht-bij-op-straat-genomen-foto/
<JanC> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://blog.iusmentis.com/2008/07/03/geen-portretrecht-bij-op-straat-genomen-foto/&prev=_t
<cleaverroot> k, put in my 2 cents :)
<JanC> basically, in the Netherlands you have to prove your portrait is of commercial value  (which I find odd, as the mere fact that it's used commercially should prove that, but apparently dutch judges don't agree with me...)
<JanC> (and the English translation by google is *really* bad :P )
<elky> JanC, yeah.
<cleaverroot> english translation by google on anything is really bad but eh
<elky> yes, but this particular one is exceptionally so
<cleaverroot> lol
<JanC> cleaverroot: actually, hebrew->english seems to work a lot better than english->dutch  :P
<cleaverroot> JanC: really
<JanC> at least as far as my experience goes
<JanC> it's the first time I tried nl->en
<elky> the spanish stuff isn't too bad
<cleaverroot> do you think that is because more emphasis has been put on that by google or that it is more easily translated into english?
<JanC> maybe it's used more
<cleaverroot> JanC: good point
<cleaverroot> has everyone tried 10.04 yet
<elky> yes. I want my tooltips back.
<cleaverroot> lol
<nigelb> me too
<JanC> I've been running it on 2 systems for soem time
<cleaverroot> so far I'm super happy with it
<elky> also, this is a non-project discussion, so we should take it back to the regular #ubuntu-women channel :)
<cleaverroot> sorry
<JanC> and I want something to flash/move when I get an IM message back  ;)
<cleaverroot> did you guys like my redo of the intro paragraph?
<JanC> responding to my jabber buddies after 1 day because I didn't see earlier is embarrassing  :-/
<elky> cleaverroot, im looking at it. I think you have some points. I'll see how I can integrate it with the current paragraph
<cleaverroot> elky: cool, I wasn't trying to say anything new just rephrasing trying to make it less clunky
<cleaverroot> don't know that I did any better :-)
<elky> thanks for the help :)
<cleaverroot> meant to say it here: anytime :-)
<elky> yeah, that was my fault, i noted my edit in the wrong channel ;)
<cleaverroot> elky: and I didn't pay attn; so my fault too
<cleaverroot> I'm new to this irc thing :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<cleaverroot> back
<AlanBell> elky: JanC just FYI and related to what I see in the scrollback, I have no opinion on the matter personally http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8094420.stm
<Tm_T> good morning everyone
 * Tm_T huggles AlanBell
<elky> Tm_T, ping me re -women if he gets all shirty again
<Tm_T> will do
<elky> oh for heck sake
<elky> special request: please don't engage with bacta.
<czajkowski> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/336
<czajkowski> 10.10 announced
<etali1> elky; Ah, sorry.  I think I completely misread what he said anyway.  Just got up and not coffeed yet.
<elky> and already twitter has the monkey one :(
<etali1> I'd been really hoping for Moose, but the reasoning behind Meerkat sounds good, I guess.
<elky> moose is too elegant for a post-lts release, really
<elky> typically it's a post-lts release we'd be doing crazy stuff like vast UI changes and trialling the dropping of features, but hey, whatever.
<etali1> With Maverick in the name, the next few months could be interesting...
<czajkowski> hmm I really should get up and drive
<czajkowski> but now the rain has started ugh
<elky> i hear it's still snowing over there
<czajkowski> was tuesday
<czajkowski> was rather odd. wedn and yesterday pretty warm spring days and now lashing rain
<pleia2> ooh, http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/It has begun!
<IdleOne> :)
<IdleOne> [14:16:20] <IdleOne> issyl0: it is going great from what I can tell. We got a lot of response from people adding theself to the sign up page
<IdleOne> [14:17:18] <nigelbabu> pleia2, I dont think you look too overweight.  you look perfect :)
<IdleOne> [14:17:33] <issyl0> IdleOne: ah, brilliant.
<IdleOne> [14:17:35] <nigelbabu> (judging from the photos I've seen recently)
<IdleOne> [14:17:44] <Pendulum> I was thinner, but I wasn't really eating at that point. And then I started eating again, but had completely messed my metabolism up.
<IdleOne> [14:17:58] <Tm_T> pleia2: ah, I tend to fight against those social pressures, otherwise I would be something totally else what I am
<IdleOne> [14:18:11] <elly> ==!
<IdleOne> [14:18:43] <IdleOne> ubuntu-qc has myseld and two other people doing translation and estelle I saw add to the French wiki also. Italian,Spanish,Brazilia pages are started
<pleia2> IdleOne: did you get permission to paste that?
<IdleOne> [14:18:49] <IdleOne> myself*
<IdleOne> [14:19:12] <pleia2> if you guys could take the translations talk into -project so it's logged that'd be awesome :)
<IdleOne> [14:19:14] <IdleOne> really exciting to see how many people jumped in and started helping :)
<issyl0> IdleOne: ??
<IdleOne> [14:19:24] <Tm_T> good point there
<IdleOne> [14:19:31] <pleia2> a lot of our translators aren't on IRC, they may depend on logs
<IdleOne> errr
<nigelbabu> IdleOne, what just happened?
<IdleOne> :( sorry I didn't ask
<issyl0> IdleOne: you spammer :P
<pleia2> IdleOne: please dont re-post from -women unless ou have permission
 * pleia2 is not entirely pleased that her weight talk got pasted :(
 * pleia2 sighs
<IdleOne> Pendulum: Tm_T elly I am very sorry
<IdleOne> pleia2: I did not think before I did it
<IdleOne> I am very very sorry and it will NEVER happen again
 * nigelbabu isn't very happy either about the weight talk being pasted
<pleia2> oh well
<IdleOne> nigelbabu I apologise to you also
<nigelbabu> :/
<Tm_T> but but, translations !
<pleia2> yes, the Italian folks have started theirs!
<pleia2> hey Dolasilla :)
<Dolasilla> hi pleia2! :)
<Dolasilla> here is a piece of Italian folks! ;)
<pleia2> IdleOne: how did you reference the images on Fr? did you add them as attachments?
<raghs> where am i ?
<raghs> in ubuntu- women channel ?
<pleia2> raghs: this is #ubuntu-women-project
<IdleOne> pleia2: umm I believe I did
<IdleOne> lemme look
<nigelbabu> I heard a lot of good things about the italian team
<nigelbabu> even TV interviews about Ubuntu
<Dolasilla> pleia2: I didn't have much time today, but I fear I'll have to re-upload the images to show them in the italian version
<Dolasilla> :d tnx nigelbabu, tv interviews are due to Flavia, our press-office ;)
<nigelbabu> Dolasilla, wow :)
<pleia2> Flavia is great
<Dolasilla> :) yes she's doing a great job!
<IdleOne> there is a way to reference to the images. for the Header use <<Include(UWMenuHeaderXX)>> where the XX is the language code
<Dolasilla> mm ok IdleOne, and then how can I modify the UWMenuHeaderIT part? to translate it?
<IdleOne> the header also needs to be translated a little and the images uploaded but then you can use <<Include on other pages
<IdleOne> Dolasilla: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UWMenuHeader is the english version
<IdleOne> translate it and create a wiki page for It
<Dolasilla> ok, so as I include the IT version in my page the new wiki page will be automatically created, right?
<IdleOne> then  <<Include(UWMenuHeaderIt)>> at the top of your wiki pages
<Dolasilla> k
<raghs>  both are same ?
<IdleOne> Dolasilla: you will have to upload the Images to the wiki.ubuntu-women.org/It/UWMeneHeaderIt page
<Dolasilla> so I have to download them from the english page and then re-upload them
<Dolasilla> isn't there a way to directly reference the english page's ones?
<IdleOne> Dolasilla: if there is I don't know how :/
<IdleOne> akgraner: might know
<IdleOne> nigelbabu: ^^^?
<IdleOne> maybe nigelbabu knows
 * nigelbabu reads scroll back
<Dolasilla> ok, IdleOne, otherwise, nevermind, it was just not to upload duplicated stuff
<nigelbabu> you can copy pages and copy to the new page :)
<nigelbabu> More Action > Copy Page
<IdleOne> nigelbabu: the thing is to have the images referenced but the text in the banner needs to be translated
<Dolasilla> uh? I copied the content of the page, with the reference to images, but they aren't shown..
<IdleOne> don't think it can be done
<IdleOne> Dolasilla: which page exactly?
<nigelbabu> IdleOne, you can save the text elsewhere and then paste into the english one
<Dolasilla> ok, thanks a lot for the instructions!
<nigelbabu> once you copied the page into the IT version
<Dolasilla> IdleOne: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/It
<IdleOne> ok, gimme a minute have to fix something here on the windows machine
<Dolasilla> hihihi
<IdleOne> ok I see what you mean
<IdleOne> ummm if you like I will upload the images for you I already have them saved to this computer
<Dolasilla> :) I've translated the top menu in the meanwhile
<Dolasilla> well, don't worry, I can do it
<IdleOne> I already started :P
<Dolasilla> :D thanks a lot!!
<IdleOne> done :)
<IdleOne> looks pretty now :)
<Dolasilla> Thanks a lot! :D
<IdleOne> my pleasure Dolasilla
<IdleOne> or should I say Prego!
<Dolasilla> :D grazie, then! ;)
<Dolasilla> dinner-time in Italy, thanks again IdleOne, goodnight everyone! :)
<IdleOne> Good night Dolasilla, buona cena
<IdleOne> think I spelled that wrong lol
<pleia2> IdleOne: fwiw, the mentoring pages probably shouldn't be translated yet, they're not accurate
<IdleOne> pleia2: want to remove them ?
<pleia2> I'll try to go through the wiki tonight and update http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/WeShouldFix
<IdleOne> and just link to the original version for now?
<pleia2> maybe
<IdleOne> ok I will take it of the ToDo page
<pleia2> it's just not worth the effort to translate since they'll be completely overhauled
<IdleOne> makes sense
<pleia2> which is the ToDo page for Fr?
<IdleOne> AFaire
<pleia2> ok, thanks
<pleia2> I'll make it so WeShouldFix will be an index of pages that are bad/inaccurate/whatever so translators can know (and we can fix them, the original purpose of that page!)
<IdleOne> the mentoringFAQ is almost done just need to look it over and make sure it is accurate
<pleia2> mentoringfaq is going to be completely rewritten too
<pleia2> none of the mentoring stuff is right
<IdleOne> well jack spent a lot of time working that one :/
<pleia2> it's a maverick blueprint goal
<pleia2> sorry :(
<IdleOne> no problem. things happen :)
<pleia2> that's the trouble with springing this translations project on us! ;)
<pleia2> we weren't prepared
<pleia2> it's great, but it's not going to go super smooth
<IdleOne> yeah, but look at all the cool work I gave you to do now :P
<pleia2> hah
<IdleOne> never expected it to go smooth
<IdleOne> would of been nice though
 * pleia2 work &
<IdleOne> pleia2: I am going to leave them on the page and put DO NOT TRANSLATE instead of removing
<IdleOne> with a short explanation as to why
<IdleOne> this way the people who have worked on the page won't be like WT...
<IdleOne> if they are just gone
<akgraner> pleia2, I'll work on a spreadsheet/checklist so we can see what has been done and what still needs to be done
<akgraner> gotta get a good view of things
<akgraner> if that hasn't been done yet
<akgraner> then I'll share so those who are working on the translations can add commentary about progress and stuff
<IdleOne> ok updated AFaire
<pleia2> akgraner: can you work on http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/WeShouldFix rather than a spreadsheet?
<IdleOne> would be great if we could have one page for all the translations that need to be done (for all the languages)
<IdleOne> this way we would all have one central place to keep up to date and easier for the team to keep track of, instead of 20 different todo pages
<IdleOne> a suggestion
<IdleOne> :)
<pleia2> or maybe a spreadsheet for *everything* but put your "need to be fixed" stuff up on http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/WeShouldFix so everyone can see it :)
<akgraner> hehe yeah
 * pleia2 just added the mentoring pages to WeShouldFix
<akgraner> yep  - I was going to add it to the wiki
<pleia2> I was planning on working on this some tonight too, do you want to handle it instead?
<akgraner> but just quickly get a spreadsheet up then add a table on the wiki ie pages in english on the left  - languages across the top
<akgraner> then checks for whats done
<akgraner> or block out what to hold off on
<akgraner> that's kinda what I was thinking
<akgraner> give me about an hour I'll get something up so you all can see
<pleia2> ok :)
<akgraner> might be hard to picture
 * IdleOne sits on the edge of his chair
<IdleOne> 59 minutes 26 seconds left
<IdleOne> :)
<pleia2> lol
<IdleOne> hmm maverick
<IdleOne> not so crazy about that
<IdleOne> least not for a lts
<pleia2> it's not for an lts
<IdleOne> ohhh that's right
<pleia2> lucid lynx is the lts :)
<IdleOne> lol
<Pendulum> I hate to say it, but every time I hear "Maverick" I think of John McCain :-/
<IdleOne> well then it ROCKS!
<IdleOne> Pendulum: I think of TopGun
<IdleOne> wait McCain was a pilot
<Pendulum> (not because I think he is one, but because he used the word so much and I think it was his Secret Service code name or something)
 * pleia2 likes meerkats a lot, isn't bothered by the qualifier
<Pendulum> I do like the meerkat
<issyl0> pleia2: sure
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> a lot of the translations folks don't use IRC so may depend on logs to keep up, so it's especially important to keep it in the logged channel
<issyl0> OK :)
<IdleOne> ok http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Fr/Contacter is done
<issyl0> IdleOne: I just fixed some minor errors (probably typos) on the main wiki page.
<issyl0> Hmm, gonna start on one other page now.
<IdleOne> issyl0: yup got it in my inbox
<issyl0> IdleOne: ah, nice.
<IdleOne> issyl0: I am subscribed to all the Fr pages
<issyl0> Poor you :P
<IdleOne> figured out my evolution filters so it all gets sorted nicely
<IdleOne> :)
<issyl0> Ah, that's alright then.
<IdleOne> haha funny you are translating the mispelling of english word on the French pages :)
<issyl0> :)
<issyl0> They just got confused, that's all :)
<IdleOne> yeah was me
<IdleOne> :P
<issyl0> Oh well, that kinda thing happens :)
<IdleOne> issyl0: remeber to add your name to the AFaire page if you decide to take on a page :)
<IdleOne> remember*
<issyl0> IdleOne: yep!
<IdleOne> :) btw you rock for helping out!
<IdleOne> I'll be back
<issyl0> Thanks!
<issyl0> I'll try and do some more tonight, fixing any minor errors I see and then next week or tomorrow morning (that's dedication isn't it?!) or Sunday morning I'll start translating more pages.
<issyl0> Good work so far!
<akgraner> wow there are *a lot* of pages - this will take a few more mins but I am working on it :-)
<akgraner> dang this is tedious - but you can get the idea of what I am taking about here  - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/PagesNeedingTranslated
<akgraner> pleia2, I'll move it but that is the idea and we can just add colors and links the the ones that are complete
<akgraner> IdleOne, I'll let you know when I have it filled out a little more with the ones that are complete added so you can see what I am talking about a little easier
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-03
<akgraner> IdleOne, what is the difference in these 2 wiki's http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Fr/Evenement and http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Fr/BasededonnÃ©e
<akgraner> I put both headers on one wiki so you can see them
<akgraner> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/test
<akgraner> oh NEVER MIND ME I GET IT  - DOH!
<akgraner> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/PagesNeedingTranslated - ok *now* I think it's ready :-)
<IdleOne> akgraner: PagesNeedingTranslated looks awesome :)
<akgraner> thanks hope that helps I need to rearrange some of the columns in a better priority
<akgraner> but it's a start
<IdleOne> I like it
<IdleOne> also created a Fr/ImpliquÃ©Vous/UbuntuWomen == GetInvolved/UbuntuWomen
<IdleOne> keeping track of all these links in my head is making me dizzy :)
<pleia2> gosh, I really need to go through this
<pleia2> Robin hasn't been the planet contact for years
<pleia2> there, fixed
<pleia2> I am not sure the Ideas page should be translated per se
<pleia2> maybe an Ideas page for each language would be useful
<pleia2> Events is one we we need to fix up too
<IdleOne> hehe your killing me
<pleia2> sorry :\
<IdleOne> lol
<nigelbabu> IdleOne, she can be a slave driver sometimes :D
<pleia2> Events is on the to be fixed page!
<pleia2> nigelbabu: aww, give me a break, I was at work when akgraner put this page together :)
<nigelbabu> pleia2, j/k
<IdleOne> where is the to be fixed page?
<pleia2> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/WeShouldFix
<pleia2> in progress
<pleia2> we should also hold off on translating Translators
<akgraner> lyz shoot me which pages to hold off on
 * pleia2 removes link to defunct goog group
<akgraner> I'll color code them with some obnoxious color
<nigelbabu> whats wrong with the mentors page btw?
<akgraner> not up to date
<pleia2> nigelbabu: it doesn't reflect reality, we've never used that
<akgraner> needs to be reworked
<pleia2> it's a maverick goal :)
<nigelbabu> meaning, you want more people listed offering services?
<akgraner> pleia2, I am still editing the all pages page
<akgraner> once I am finished can you makes some notes on there
<IdleOne> <pleia2> we should also hold off on translating Translators. OK blocked off
<pleia2> I think GetInvolved/UbuntuWomen is ok now
<akgraner> as I complete stuff I will just comment it out but have it for history
<pleia2> Ideas should be per-language probably, not translated directly
<akgraner> give me like an hour I am on the "G's" tight now
<pleia2> shouldn't PagesNeedingTranslated be PagesNeedingTranslation? :)
<pleia2> I guess I'll hold off on this
<IdleOne> pleia2: on Translators page Please Contact Us, and I will add you to the [[http://groups.google.com/group/i18n-mentor|i18n-mentors]]...  the Contact Us should have an email link or link to mailing list??
<pleia2> IdleOne: I removed that
<IdleOne> oh ok ##
<IdleOne> I see
<IdleOne> never mind
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> this was written ages ago by a woman who is no longer involved
<IdleOne> Fr has 4 pages completed :)
<pleia2> oh, I remember these GetInvolved/ pages
<pleia2> I wrote all these when I was hoping we could move http://ubuntu-women.org/getinv.html to the wiki
<pleia2> before I had web access
<pleia2> if you notice, GetInvolved/UbuntuWomen is almost a duplicate of the bottom of http://ubuntu-women.org/getinv.html
<pleia2> the website was actually updated, the wiki was not
<pleia2> that's why the wiki was out of date, it wasn't really being used
<pleia2> we replaced all the other GetInvolved/ pages with a link to the official Ubuntu documentation
<pleia2> anyway, the GetInvolved pages should either be deleted, or linked to the main website
<pleia2> (I vote most of them being deleted, duplicating the work of the official docs is silly)
<IdleOne> so no getInvolved?
<pleia2> we can probably keep GetInvolved/UbuntuWomen - but it should be renamed to something else, maybe just GetInvolved
<pleia2> and remove all the GetInvolved subpages
 * pleia2 does this
<pleia2> ok, all we have now is http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/GetInvolved
<pleia2> which has questionable usefulness, but we can keep it for now :)
<IdleOne> ready for translation?
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> not changed much from GetInvolved/UbuntuWomen
 * pleia2 goes to see about food
<elky> <3 the wiki
<nigelbabu> elky, ah, just the person I was lookin for :)
<elky> eep!
<nigelbabu> elky, do you mind a PM?
<elky> go for it
<akgraner> pleia2, Chrome just crashed and none of my changes on the All pages saved
<akgraner> I am callin it a night
<akgraner> just add notes for me and I'll look at in the morning
<akgraner> oh crap the IRC Purpose needs to be fixed as well - looks like it is still all the ideas
<pleia2> akgraner: doh :( will do - have a good night!
<nhandler> pleia2: Thanks for adding the Ubuntu Women team reports. You might want to follow this guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting/HowTo and switch to the newer method of using <Include()> tags for the reports
<pleia2> nhandler: we can't include, we're on a different wiki
<pleia2> sorry :(
<pleia2> wiki.ubuntu-women.org isn't at all linked with wiki.ubuntu.com
<nhandler> Hmm...Let me double check. I thought there was a way
<pleia2> I would have done it properly months ago if I knew of a way (I already converted a bunch of teams to that new way)
<nhandler> Let me think about this. I believe my script that prepares the reports would handle the <<Include tag properly, but the wiki doesn't want to display it.
<pleia2> ok, thanks :)
<akgraner> Good Morning :-)
<maco> akgraner: why are you awake again already?
<maco> akgraner: it's still sleepy time in our timezone!
<pleia2> +1
<rww> the IRC addiction is starting to take hold of akgraner!
<akgraner> i have no idea - I only take naps these days - maco - haha what are you awake
<maco> akgraner: im a student. im always up late
<pleia2> akgraner: I worked on AllPages lots
<akgraner> rww, IRC Intervention
<akgraner> sounds like a great idea for a blueprint
<rww> akgraner: I think I need one of those.
<maco> me too
<akgraner> pleia2, oh cool thank you!!!
<akgraner> hehe bekabug that's cool - we call my daughter BeccaBug :-)
<maco> akgraner: have you checked that your daughter's actually asleep?
<akgraner> maco, hehe
<akgraner> yeah - between wrestling, colorguard and gardening she is tired these days
<maco> wow
<akgraner> oh and performing - she is going to be performing at the Goat Festival  that invited me to set up the ubuntu Booth
<akgraner> should be a really fun time and a great new way to introduce people to open source via ubuntu
<akgraner> pleia2, WOW!
<akgraner> you weren't kiddin were ya
<pleia2> :)
<maco> the goat festival?
<akgraner> pleia2, 39 Languages  - I left of Slovenian, Swedish , and Spanish somehow :-/
<akgraner> maco, yep the American Dairy Goat Farmers have a headquarters in Spindale NC
<pleia2> doh
<akgraner> (of all places)
<akgraner> and they raise goats to give to women in Africa
<akgraner> well one of the things they do is that
<akgraner> and show give them a way to make a living with goats
<akgraner> and when they found out about "ubuntu" the philosophy, spirit, and the OS and that is has it's roots in Africa - they said "You have to have a booth at the Festival"
<akgraner> to which Pete replied - talk to my wife - she is the community person and she can help you with your computer  (I was a little touched by the fact he told them to talk to me)
<maco> hehe sorry i gotta laugh at the kernel hacker saying that the still-calls-herself-NTEU is the one that can help with the computer
<akgraner> yeah well about that  - yeah I think I will always call myself and NTEU for some reason..  me looks around for nigelbabu (he said he was going to kick me everytime I call myself that :-P )
<akgraner> an not and
<akgraner> so now the music store where Becca, Pete and Matt take lessons from all their computers are Ubuntu, the wireless provider we have runs Ubuntu Servers, the Goat Festival People are trying it out and I have a meeting with our economic planning board to see where the city can start using open source
<akgraner> so yeah kinda cool
<akgraner> out of the box kinda stuff
<maco> wow
<maco> YOU ROCK HARDCORE!
<maco> um...or gospel...if you prefer
<akgraner> hehe
<akgraner> it's all good
<akgraner> now if I could only make money doing all this I would be golden :-)
<maco> my brain just went "wait! catholic! easter! Devils Music doesnt it!"
<maco> s/it/fit/
<akgraner> HAHA
<akgraner> nah time and place for everything :-)
<akgraner> I haven't been teaching much lately - 45 mins to get to the church or the school here so... I have gotten lazy and don't want to drive places unless I *have* too these days
<akgraner> but I did find out there is a whole group of Ubuntu Users who are working to get the Catholic Church to use Ubuntu and or any Open Source OS and/or applications
<maco> Ichthus?
<maco> (cant spell...stupid word)
<akgraner> I dunno - I haven't looked into really
<akgraner> someone just sent me links - and well I have enough to do atm  - figured that could wait
<akgraner> I added it to my "this would be cool to look into when I have nothing else todo" folder
<maco> icthus used to be "christian edition"
<maco> the i-word i cant spell is christian edition
<maco> the s-word i cant spell is muslim edition
<akgraner> nah - I that's not it - but last year when I was talking about parental controls I saw something about it though
<akgraner> they have some interesting parental controls
<maco> dansguardian?
<akgraner> yep
<akgraner> well one of the things they use
<maco> i put that on my cousin's laptop before giving it to her
<maco> though iirc theres no gui to configure it?
<akgraner> there is not any *one* thing but a series of things they recommend iirc
<akgraner> it's been over a year now - kinda foggy on the details with that these days
<akgraner> yeah I can't remember off the top of my head now
<akgraner> and too lazy to switch desktop windows and google it
<akgraner> so sad
<akgraner> dang it  - this enter key and I  -  I meant   - so sad I am so lazy :-P
<akgraner> anyone use inkscape?
<maco> i do
<akgraner> oh cool
<maco> what did i just sign up for?
<akgraner> you'll be at SELF right?
<rww> I can kinda use it.
<maco> yes i will
<maco> i *may* have figured out carpool/hotel-room-share too
<akgraner> I still can't figure it out well enough to use just inkscape and hope back to pages when I get stuck trying to do something
<maco> oh
<maco> ive never used inkscape for like....a newsletter
<akgraner> hop I mean
<maco> just to make individual images to use in other stuff
<maco> i use scribus for desktop publishing type stuff
<akgraner> yeah  - GIMP and I are BFF's these days and I want to learn to use and open source desktop publisher
<rww> akgraner: inkscape isn't really a desktop publisher
<akgraner> and well neither scribus or inkscape are working for me (learning curve issues I am sure)
<rww> well, I guess it is. I just use it for vectory stuff.
<akgraner> rww - hmmm then I wonder why I keep getting told to use inkscape
<maco> akgraner: will you be at OLF? i intend to submit a talk thats an overview of inkscape
<akgraner> yep - I'll be there too
<maco> it *can* be used for publishing. thats how FCM is done
<akgraner> I submitted 3 talks to OLF hoping 1 would get picked up
<maco> FCM had a howto on how they did it
<rww> I've never used scribus, I should try it out some time
<akgraner> maco, oh cool - I'll have to look for that - I'll have some samples of things I do in Pages - and maybe we can figure out how to help me understand how to do them in inckscape
<akgraner> well if ya have time to help me that is  - I am assuming a lot aren't I :-/  sorry about that
<akgraner> rww, I tried scribus and inkscape last last Feb - March ('09)  and  well  - it was painful and very frustrating
<akgraner> so I just used open office for some simple stuff I was working on
<rww> akgraner: yeah. I use inkscape for LoCo stuff, and get confused and go poke Flannel repeatedly. It is hard :(
<maco> akgraner: remember the vine i made? that was in inkscape
<akgraner> rww is that what was used for the CD covers
<maco> akgraner: it took like 3 days i think
<rww> akgraner: yeah
<akgraner> maco, vaguely
<maco> akgraner: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Ideas/TShirtDesigns
<rww> I guess those CD sleeves are desktop publishing, come to think of it. So yeah, I'm crazy, it is a DTP tool :S
<akgraner> rww, yeah after OSCON last year I revisited inkscape  because I want to modify the CD cover to use  and well as you can see I don't have a modified one sooo...
<akgraner> maco, now I remember
<akgraner> that is cool
<akgraner> I would really like to learn to use those 2 applications
<akgraner> maco, just added SELF - Maco - inkscape to my Calendar :-)  hehe
<maco> akgraner: hehe ok. we'll do an in-person tutorial thingy and then that'll help me figure out how to explain at OLF if i get to speak there again
<maco> though ooooh id also LOVE to show off MyPaint
<akgraner> There should be time  - will be coming to SC on Friday?
<maco> last OLF when she got off the stage i grabbed ebeth to tell her about how awesome mypaint is. then at the party that night i handed her my laptop and wacom to play
<akgraner> ubucon from 1-6 on Friday and 9-noon on Sunday
<maco> thats the plan
<maco> but not by 1!
<maco> i have school around noon i think
<akgraner> no worries I will be there Thursday through Sunday
<maco> alrighty
<akgraner> rww, you going to make it Portland for OSCON this year?
<akgraner> make it to
<rww> akgraner: I haven't decided yet.
<akgraner> dang it - sorry you have to read my mind
<akgraner> ahh ok - I'll be there for CLS and OSCON - doing the Linux Pro/Ubuntu User booth again
<akgraner> Gareth and I submitted a talk to OSCON - well he submitted it - I just helped with it - so we are waiting to see how that goes
<akgraner> I think I have had entirely too much caffeine in the last 24 hours
<akgraner> sorry y'all for babbling
<akgraner> HaHa you mean there really is more than one Linux Distribution - http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2010040300735OSCY
<Mamarok> hm, Carla seems to change distro quite often lately, I remember a post of her about switching to PCLinuxOS
<Mamarok> not so long ago
<maco> probably gives 'em all a shot to see whats new so she can report on t
<czajkowski> aloha
<melissawm> hi folks, anyone around?
<elky> melissawm, kinda. 'sup?
<melissawm> hi! :) i just wanted some little help with the translation of the wiki
<melissawm> in the "how to translate" page, the instruction is to create a translated page right away. is that what i should do? even if the translations are not 100% complete?
<Dolasilla> Hi Melissawm! to solve issue with uncomplete translations you can copy the existing english page to the new one, so for the untraslated part you can leave the english text
<Dolasilla> to copy the page you can use the "actions" on the top of the page. One of the available actions is to perform the copy of the page
<melissawm> Dolasilla: great! thanks :) another small question though: in the translations project, we use pt_br as our language code. in the page that is linked in the how to translate wiki, there is no such language code, though
<melissawm> but if i use pt (for portuguese) i'll be trampling over portuguese (from portugal) as opposed to pt_br which is portuguese from brazil
<Dolasilla> :( sorry melissawm, I can't help on this, I thought you could simply set
<Dolasilla> #format wiki
<Dolasilla> #LANGUAGE it
<Dolasilla> on top of page
<Dolasilla> sorry:
<Dolasilla> in place of it, pt_br
<Dolasilla> but I don't know if it works
<melissawm> ok. i can always do this now, and if it's wrong i can fix it later, right?
<Dolasilla> of course! :)
<melissawm> great :) thanks!
<Dolasilla> your welcome! :) gotta go now, bye! :)
<melissawm> i have to go now but thanks for your help!
<czajkowski> .c
<AlanBell> .py
<jussi01> .h
<akgraner> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/PagesNeedingTranslated  If someone is looking to translate the wiki pages - please direct them to this table 1st :-)  I'll add it to the mail wiki page as well
<popey> maco: http://img708.yfrog.com/i/o8j.jpg/
<popey> Doctor Who biscuits!
<maco> popey: i made blue TARDIS biscuits once. crimsun has a photo somewhere
<popey> :)
<crimsun> they're on my pc; do you want me to post them?
<akgraner> biscuits as in cookies or biscuits as in southern style breakfast ones?
<crimsun> former-
<maco> akgraner: "biscuits" as in "popey said it, so go with the british meaning"
<akgraner> that is so strange to me :-/  some southern things are just en-grained  and sound so funny with any other meaning  - :-p
<popey> biscuits over there are like muffin things arent they?
<popey> i recall hearing KFC do chicken, biscuits and gravy? whereas in the UK it's chicken, chips, beans
<popey> er, thats french fries :)
<popey> gah, I'm hungry now :)
<popey> maco: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2010/apr/03/doctor-who-eleventh-hour - note- contains spoilers
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-04-04
<elky> damn you popey, now I'm wanting KFC.
<nhandler> I tend to prefer Browns chicken over KFC
<elky> I'm in .au. We have a vastly smaller range of fried fast food than the US
<elky> Thankfully.
<elky> If we had better quality fast food, I'd probably eat it more often than I do.
<IdleOne> elky: be glad you don't
<elky> Meanwhile, I believe I am going to go indulge today, since I lack a cache of easter eggs.
<IdleOne> aussies are not know for being overweight as far as I know
<elky> IdleOne, we're right up there with the US and UK
<elky> #firstworldproblems
<IdleOne> I see
 * IdleOne eats fast food 5 times a week :(
<elky> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity #6
<IdleOne> I'm to lazy to pack a lunch
<elky> I eat takeaway most days too, but I work in a fairly exceptional cafe district with some good roodle places within mere blocks
<elky> takeaway doesn't have to be "fast food"
<IdleOne> but I do try to eat salads and wraps and stay away from the fried food
<IdleOne> roodle?
<elky> :P
<IdleOne> never heard that before
<elky> Don't make me stomp on your toes.
<IdleOne> we should move this to -women
<elky> Indeed.
<pleia2> akgraner: I am thinking for Meetings and Ideas we don't actually want them translating the content, maybe just keeping them as Meeting and Ideas pages for people to add their ideas and meetings in their languages
<pleia2> not sure about translating Courses or ChallengingSexism at all (CS just goes to english links)
<akgraner> I agree  - I thought I put that on the all pages notes
<akgraner> hmm
<akgraner> maybe not
<pleia2> any reason it's "Challenging Sexism" on the table rather than the linkable ChallengingSexism ?
<pleia2> I guess for other languages it's just the name to translate
 * pleia2 just rambling :)
<akgraner> pleia2, can you go through the all pages list and add the (./) checkmark beside the ones that need to be added to the spreadsheet and I'll fix it right up :-)
<akgraner> pleia2, no worries :-)  it's nice to know I am not the only one who rambles
<akgraner> :-)
<pleia2> hehe
<akgraner> I guess I was looking at the page names and stuff being translated
<akgraner> and if like for the meeting content - a note saying only available in English or something  (me rambles now)
<akgraner> pleia2, DOH - I forgot to change it to wiki formating that allows things to be linked
<akgraner> I started that on a spreadsheet
<akgraner> :-)
<pleia2> oh ok :)
<pleia2> maybe we can add a color for "add Ideas (or whatever the topic of the page is) in your language"
<nigelb> is the winners of the competition on topic getting a bit stale?
<pleia2> it hasnt been a month yet! :)
<nigelb> pleia2, ignore me then :)
<akgraner> pleia2, yep I can do that as well - so in your growing todo list :-)  can you do (./) for the pages we need full translations for and  (i) beside the ones for just the topics
 * akgraner is loving fixing wikis these days 
<pleia2> akgraner: on AllPages?
<akgraner> yep
<pleia2> okie
<akgraner> I was going to update to add new pages on Sunday nights
<akgraner> so on Monday mornings the new pages that have been added during the previous week show up on there
<akgraner> Make sense?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> hmm, is there anything else like ./ ?
<akgraner> you could do double ./ if you want
 * pleia2 wants more pretty things
<akgraner> just something so I know what you mean with symbols
<akgraner> :-)
<akgraner> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HelpOnSmileys
<pleia2> maybe a happy face for topics rather than (i)
<pleia2> ooh
<akgraner> check out this list
<pleia2> thanks :) I'll put a key at the top so you know what I assigned what
<akgraner> me loves the Wikiguide stuff
<akgraner> thanks :-)
<pleia2> ok, there are a lot of "Discuss translation status"
<pleia2> which can either mean "I don't know if this is worth translating" or "It's not ready to be translated, maybe it should sometime though"
<pleia2> hmm, maybe I should separate those two
 * pleia2 reedits
<akgraner> hehe
<akgraner> :-)
<pleia2> ok, there we go
 * akgraner goes to look
<akgraner> pleia2, that's great
<akgraner> :-)
<akgraner> svaksha, ping
<akgraner> hey I sent an email to the mailing list yesterday - but I sent it from my ubuntu.com email account - I think it is stuck in moderation - can you look please - thanks
<akgraner> pleia2, thanks for changing the headers to the linkable wiki names
<akgraner> :-)
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-03-29
<Tm_T> K'day
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-04-03
<AlanBell> running the stats in a minute
 * nigelb hugs AlanBell 
<AlanBell> 632 in total
<AlanBell> hmm, there were 638 last month
<nigelb> we're losing people? :(
<rww> yup.
<nigelb> This, is not good.
 * AlanBell checks down the back of the sofa
<nigelb> s/,//
<AlanBell> net loss of 6, but as there were 4 new members it is an actual loss of 10
<nigelb> hrm, does everyone know this?
<AlanBell> 32:600 is 5.06%
<AlanBell> I anticipate the percentage will go up a bit this month as skaet is in the Americas queue
<nigelb> and I expect she'll get through :)
<AlanBell> actually I may have messed up the spreadsheet, looking at the team reports there may have been a net drop of 1 person
<AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ReportingPage
<pleia2> thanks AlanBell :)
<rww> AlanBell: do you have a graph of the total number of Ubuntu Members over time handy?
<AlanBell> on here http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers
<AlanBell> rww: it is not accurate because I can't see people who are no longer members
#ubuntu-women-project 2013-03-25
<melodie> hello !
<pdurbin> melodie: hello (a little late) :)
<melodie> hi pdurbin :)
<melodie> pdurbin here KDE hidden under Openbox, in a Edu/Christmas version done a pair of years ago:
<melodie> http://i5.minus.com/iQ0C0MoOaTkIF.png
<melodie> http://i3.minus.com/ibyqVQ9WrKBdBn.png
<melodie> the menus in the first one was in French, but the version was also available in English
<valorie> melodie: your desktop is enchanting!
<melodie> hi valorie it's not my desktop, its some pclinuxos versions I did for Christmas 2011
<melodie> one version in English, one in French, both have two backgrounds which can change randomly at each session
<melodie> and if you would like to have it the isos are still online...
<valorie> that's great
<valorie> I'm happy with kubuntu for now
<valorie> but I do have photos (mostly from astropix) which change every hour
<melodie> I am not suggesting you change, I said you could have the isos : then test as live, or install to vbox...
<valorie> I actually don't use the desktop much
<melodie> or in a small spare partition
<valorie> right, time is the issue
<melodie> ok
<melodie> if you know some people who would like this for children, it's available. that's it.
<melodie> and even of KDE versions, it's very light, because of this special setup.
<melodie> I hope I can do that one of these days, for a Ubuntu version too
<melodie> I have started to make a Ubuntu Openbox Remix and it's almost finished. ready for large tests anyway
<valorie> wow, that's cool
<valorie> are you a member of Linuxchix?
<valorie> seems like there are enough people there with lots of contacts to help you spread the word
<melodie> valorie good idea, but not now it's late here and I will soon direct myself to sleep
#ubuntu-women-project 2013-03-26
<melodie> valorie I don't have a pic in English yet, but the iso offers the same choice of languages at start as any official ones. here pics in French:
<melodie> http://beta.linuxvillage.net/index.php/topic,238.msg1657.html
<melodie> and at the end of the post, the links to the isos, for who wants to try
<melodie> good night
<valorie> looks extremely gnomish
<valorie> not a fan of gnome, except for the people
<valorie> :-)
#ubuntu-women-project 2013-03-27
<melodie> hi
<pdurbin> good morning
<melodie> hello pdurbin good morning to you (utc +1 here, it's almost 3 pm)
<melodie> pdurbin I have finally done the presentation of the ubuntu openbox remix
<melodie> I want to announce it everywhere so more people can test, and perhaps offer to participate for what is left to do
<melodie> Bento2 an Ubuntu Openbox Remix - http://beta.linuxvillage.net/index.php/topic,248.msg1704.html#new
<melodie> :)
<pdurbin> cool
<melodie> have you read it already ?
<pdurbin> skimmed it :)
<melodie> ok
<melodie> the main thing with this version is to have a version even lighter, but yet still easy to go for anyone
<melodie> and easy to use to build another custom version also
<pdurbin> light is good
<melodie> it allows having all the resource for apps, which is what I really prefer, over lots of gui features which are not always really needed
<pdurbin> I stay in the command line as much as possible :)
<melodie> openbox also allows configuring many shortcuts, for lots of things. I don't use them too much but some have a real talent for that
<melodie> even tiling is possible
<pdurbin> I've heard good things about tiling window managers. I just use the stock GNOME 3 from Fedora
<melodie> ok
<melodie> is that pytile ?
<melodie> maybe not...
<pdurbin> hmm, dunno
<melodie> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pytile
<pdurbin> I think that's different than whatever GNOME 3 uses
<melodie> ok
<pdurbin> I haven't been very adventurous about using anything but GNOME
<melodie> if you have 4 or 5 gb available you could try bento2 ideally in Virtualbox
<melodie> it has the guest packages for it
<pdurbin> yum. i love virtual box. and vagrant. do you have a vagrant base box for your distro?
<melodie> first time I hear about vagrant : is it a kind of virtual system ?
<pdurbin> this is me trying to explain vagrant: http://wiki.greptilian.com/vagrant
<melodie> I look at the pages from your links
<melodie> invoking "yaourt vagrant" in archlinux
<pdurbin> it's hard to explain what vagrant is. does it make sense?
<melodie> 2 aur/vagrant 1.1.4-1 (35)
<melodie>   Tool for building and distributing virtualized development environments
<melodie>  aur/vagrant-vbguest 0.6.4-1 (5)
<melodie>  a plugin which automatically installs the host's VirtualBox Guest
<melodie>     Additions on the guest system.
<pdurbin> sounds accurate
<melodie> I'll install them and if I understand anything I will show it to my companion
<melodie> he might have some interest for it
<melodie> pdurbin what about this one ?
<melodie> 1 aur/ruby-sahara 0.0.11-2 (2)
<melodie>     Tool for sandboxing vagrant images
<pdurbin> sahara is great for taking snapshots, experimenting with something crazy, and then rolling back to the snapshot if something goes terribly wrong
<melodie> ok
<melodie> I would have to get used to the idea, and start trying when I'll have a free moment
<pdurbin> it took me a while to understand the value of vagrant
<melodie> I have been doing iso remixed for several years, so I think I could value it very much
<pdurbin> the world needs more builders of vagrant base boxes :)
<melodie> for the other types of developments I don't quite see, because I don't code, and I think my companion uses HG (mercurial ?)
<melodie> I don't know yet what the base box can be
<melodie> nor how you build it
<melodie> would you register at LinuxVillage forum to make a speech there about it ? we have a few people who are quite keen with tecnics
<pdurbin> if you make a base box for your distro you could list it here: A list of base boxes for Vagrant - Vagrantbox.es - http://www.vagrantbox.es
<melodie> I would not make a base box from a distro which is not yet finished
<melodie> it lacks the paintings and curtains yet. :)
<pdurbin> heh
<pdurbin> hmm, I'm not a big fan of forums but you are welcome to post something and link back to this conversation: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/27/%23ubuntu-women-project.html
<melodie> could you give me the link to the part where you started talking about vagrant ?
<melodie> the linuxvillage forum people already know about ubuntu openbox remixes...
<pdurbin> I think you just have to wait for the log bot to catch up
<melodie> oh I see
<melodie> however a direct discussion between you and the members of the forum would have been more interesting
<melodie> there are people from different parts of the world there
<melodie> US, Australia, Quebec... and many more
<pdurbin> I do like that you're building a global community
<melodie> so do we :)
<pdurbin> do you have a mailing list too?
<melodie> no we don't. we don't need one and don't have time for that
<melodie> what we are looking forward to will be a dokuwiki which should be setup by one of our members soon, and we have a chan
<melodie> #linuxvillage on freenode as well
<pdurbin> oh, cool. is #linuxvillage logged?
<melodie> not that I know
<melodie> how do you log a chan ?
<pdurbin> like this: https://github.com/dvn/iqirclog-vagrant
<melodie> we have #old-world as well
<melodie> pdurbin I am unable to use what you have just shown me, not the level, or not the time, or both
<melodie> but feel free to come at #linuxvillage and #old-world, and if you find it nice you can log  both
<pdurbin> ok. no worries. you asked... ;)
<pdurbin> #crimsonfu is logged for free by this nice person: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/an-offer-to-the-perl-community.html ... I suspect he'd log your channel for free too
<melodie> yes I did, just I had fancied something such as three easy steps :)
<melodie> that would be nice
<melodie> pdurbin I might ask them some time, that seems not difficult
<melodie> pdurbin I quit the chans a little, have some things to do
<melodie> have a nice day!
<pdurbin> he's very nice. (moritz)
<melodie> ok, thank you very much
<pdurbin> sure
#ubuntu-women-project 2013-03-31
<melodie_> hi
#ubuntu-women-project 2015-03-23
<PerfM> is this women's only zone
<PerfM> because I think it's really important to have those
<PerfM> without men invading our space
<PerfM> like they do every minute of every day in the real world
<PerfM> that's sexist
<PerfM> c'mon now, gurl power or no power.
<PerfM> I just want to be apart of a team okay
<pleia2> PerfM: leave, you're not welcome here
