#ubuntu-uos-core 2016-11-15
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/11/15/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html
<zulfi> hi, any talk
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Creating your first snap | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22712/creating-your-first-snap/
<CoderEurope> mhall119: o/
<mhall119> o/
 * CoderEurope sips his black coffee ..
 * mhall119 refills his
<didrocks> o/
<CoderEurope> 2 minutes to go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YnUbJa-ISs
<CoderEurope> dholbach: good luck :) 10 seconds to go ..
<dholbach> sorry, I'm having some difficulties - give me another 2 mins
<CoderEurope> 2nd video that is 2 minutes late today :(
<dholbach> sorry
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no video
<dholbach> it it working now?
<dholbach> maybe you need to reload the page?
<LarreaMikel> yep
<LarreaMikel> reload and it works
<kristbaum_> Jep, working ;)
<didrocks> o/
<mhall119> dholbach: we see it
<kristbaum_> didrocks: Get well soon
<didrocks> thanks kristbaum_ :) I can still type though and help answering questions :)
<CoderEurope> finished my cigar - bender came back to this: http://archive.is/jHWmf
<mhall119> CoderEurope: try reloading http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22712/creating-your-first-snap/
<mhall119> there's a new video link I think
<LarreaMikel> this first snap will be for PC, rp2...
<CoderEurope> Ahh .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RgmpLdxxIA
<mhall119> LarreaMikel: it'll be for whatever CPU architecture he builds it on
<SebthreeBQM10HD> back
<LarreaMikel> mhall119: thanks
<mhall119> LarreaMikel: other that architecture, snaps don't know or care about where they are run
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: How do we get 'atril' into a snappy package ? Could you take us through it ? https://redd.it/5cylzt
<didrocks> CoderEurope: you will have after this basic usage some examples on how to create a snap package, so you can jump in and try to create it :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION:  Why make a snap ?
<Thibran> QUESTION: Will it be possible to create Snaps on 14.04 using snapcraft, containing .deb packages from Ubuntu 14.04 archive?
<kristbaum> QUESTION: Are snaps automatically updated by default? If yes where can one configure the update-frequency?
<LarreaMikel> mhall119: yes, but it is not the same to create a snap for PC or RP2  (or am I wrong?). I mean, that in order to create a snap for RP2, you can't create it form a PC
<mhall119> LarreaMikel: correct, you either need an ARM device like the RP2 to build it on, or a virtual machine that emulates ARM
<LarreaMikel> mhall119: thank you.
<kristbaum> mhall119: if you build your snap on launchpad, will it be ARM too?
<didrocks> kristbaum: yes, you can choose which archs you are building your snap on with launchpad
<kristbaum> \o/
<mhall119> kristbaum: you can tell Launchpad to use an ARM builder, yes
<didrocks> Thibran: you need to ping sergiusens on #snappy
<didrocks> or here :)
<didrocks> (but please move the discussion there)
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Could you give us an example of the snap you've done - about its confinements ?
<kristbaum> didrocks: what is the default update-polling rate for snapd, and where can one adjust it?
<didrocks> kristbaum: IIRC, at least once a day, and then, some checks are done each time you are hitting the store with a snap command
 * CoderEurope has orange bits in his gnashers :(
<diddledan> vim working well for dholbach there :-D
<kristbaum> don't distract poor dholbach ;)
<diddledan> sorry :-p
<sergiusens> didrocks we prefer rocket chat these days ;-)
<seb128> because we didn't have enough different tools to communicate
<didrocks> sergiusens: seems people are on IRC currently ;)
<seb128> sergiusens, is that new chat thing described/referenced anywhere?
<seb128> or is that just a way to hide from users? :p
<CoderEurope> the sound is blanking out, on and off intermittently :( grumbles.
<didrocks> CoderEurope: when dholbach is typing, correct
<didrocks> but he doesn't talk by then
<sergiusens> seb128 on every snapcraft release since this month sent to snapcraft-announce
<seb128> sergiusens, you might want to put it in the topic of the #snappy channel?
<sergiusens> seb128 I am not admin but let me see who is
<seb128> sergiusens, well if you are trying to drive people off IRC...
 * CoderEurope turns the office fan up. and has some juice.
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Can you use tar zip files instead of tarballs for source files ?
<elopio> CoderEurope: if you want to give a try at snapping atril, you can join the #snappy channel on IRC, or #snapcraft in rocket.ubuntu.com. We can help you there.
<didrocks> CoderEurope: yes!
<CoderEurope> elopio: I dont have the technology-laptop to do that.
<elopio> CoderEurope: I'm not sure what you are missing, but there are plenty of ways to get something running.
<elopio> we could even steal some resources from the lxd demo ^_^
<Skuggen> Is there a difference between --dangerous and --force-dangerous?
<didrocks> Skuggen: --force-dangerous was the old name for --dangerous
<Skuggen> Ah
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<elopio> dholbach: it's an autotools snap, shouldn't be too hard. But it might need to snap the mate libraries first.
<kristbaum> QUESTION: what if a buld proccess expects you to run a shellscript in advance, to set up workspaces?
<didrocks> dholbach: ^
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<didrocks> kristbaum: I would go with a custom snapcraft plugin
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: What other kind of config flags are there ? IDKnow what a config flag is ?
<sergiusens> kristbaum coming in snapcraft 2.23
<sergiusens> dholbach ^
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<kristbaum> Uhh, cool :)
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<CoderEurope> dholbach: I have a last question for you ...
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<kristbaum> serguisens: when can we expect 2.23? ^^
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<didrocks> thanks a lot dholbach!
<dholbach> thanks everyone
<dholbach> on to the next session
<seb128> thanks dholbach!
<elopio> thank you dholbach !
<LarreaMikel> thank you dholbach
<kristbaum> Good Job dholbach!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Snap Roadmap and Q&A | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22717/snap-roadmap-and-qa/
<CoderEurope> Hiya Chloe !
<CoderEurope> Is this the stream ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocb8hPYhQwM
<kristbaum> CoderEurope: yes
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Hello :3
<kristbaum> It's on!!
<ChloeWolfieGirl> It is :3
<SebthreeBQM10HD> HI
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and oh ChloeWolfieGirl is here
<dholbach> if you have questions, please ask!
<dholbach> make sure you prefix them with QUESTION: so I can more easily pick them up
<dholbach> and ask the guys :)
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Yes I am SebthreeBQM10HD
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ChloeWolfieGirl,  have you turned into a snap?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> SebthreeBQM10HD: I wish x'D
<ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: What are the plans with Snap and the Phone?
<kristbaum> QUESTION: How does Ubuntu Core handle graphical apps? Does ist bring an XServer ind the Snap, can it handle Mir?
<LarreaMikel> QUESTION: Is there any plan for real time features in Ubuntu Core?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: I know Ubuntu personal is something snappy, is that full snap, can it be installed on any hardware like normal ubuntu and will we be able to install none-snaps on personal?
<kristbaum> QUESTION: If an update breaks something, are there plans to build in error detection, and revert the update automatically?
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Does it " take a village" to build an Snappy App for Ubuntu Cloud ? #random question.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION; When is Ubuntu personal going to be pretty much ready, do you expect ?  ready as in quite useable and on computer, phone, tablet etc ?
<kristbaum> QUESTION: has Snappy Interfaces for Serial, SPI, I2C?
<kristbaum> QUESTION: Could you snap an app that uses bashscripts?
<didrocks> kristbaum: there are some interfaces for GPI, I2C, but you need to modify your question in "when are they going to ship in device images"
<mhall119> QUESTION: Can you give an ETA for snap support on 14.04, Debian, Fedora and CentOS?
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Is torbrowser and IceCat browser as a snappy app in the ubuntu store ?
<sergiusens> kristbaum you can  do mir on core https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/mir-snaps/
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Are there less that 600 snaps in the Ubuntu Store ?
<sergiusens> kristbaum about auto roll back; health checks are planned
<sergiusens> mvo ^
<ChloeWolfieGirl> QUESTION: What would you like to see snapped?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION: When do you think that most Ubuntu users will be using a snap based version of Ubuntu, instead of a Deb based version ?
<Skuggen> I was surprised at how small the MySQL snap ended up being, actually: 18mb
<kristbaum> thanks didrocks and sergiusens
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION; What about the size issue for snaps, some snaps can be many gbs it seems, any way to make things smaller ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION;  How are snaps going to work, on say Ubuntu tablet, that only has like 16gb of space, if most of them are massive ?
<kristbaum> QUESION: when will the announced Firefox snap come?
<mhall119> SebthreeBQM10HD: ubuntu-app-platform is a content-sharing snap that provides something similary to click frameworks, so snap apps on the phone/tablet will be about the same size as their click version
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION;  Debian and Fedora will also support snaps it seems ok,  but why should all those various other distros as well?  Plus doesn't GNOME have something similar ?
<kristbaum> QUESTION: Are there plans to ship some apps in Ubuntu 17.04 as snaps by default? like e.g Firefox, Libreoffice, kernel?
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Can you specific a Free Document licence in the Snap configs ?
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Does snapcraft have a tweet address ?
<mhall119> @snapcraftio
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Monetizing: How does that work in private non-Canonical stores ?
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Can we expect to see btc (bitcoin) used in the money-participation of paying for Ubuntu Snaps from the Canonical store, if not elsewhere ?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> CoderEurope: +1 I'd like to buy snappy apps with btc
<flexiondotorg> QUESTION: If someone is planning to write an Interface, should they wait for the refactoring you mentioned?
<popey> Oooh, good question flexiondotorg :)
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: if Pixel ( the raspberry pi Foundation's desktop lxde environment hot newness ) could be put into a Snap, what limits are there in terms of repository locations, would there be for developers ?
<flexiondotorg> CoderEurope, The Raspbian kernel doesn't have AppArmor. So snaps aren't possible.
<CoderEurope> right-oh
<Skuggen> Would be nice to have a way to search in edge/beta as well
<sergiusens> mvo darktable is there, well darktable-kyrofa
<mvo> sergiusens: \o/
<CoderEurope> dholbach: a_lot of questions left -over so far :)
<dholbach> CoderEurope, wihch one?
<dholbach> I'm going top to bottom :)
<CoderEurope> not one in particular - just a_lot to go with the time available (1hour).
<dholbach> ok :)
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<jrwren> zyga: great explaination. One of best I've ever heard for snaps for common desktop/server use.
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<CoderEurope> dholbach: My question about the license used in the Snap was - do you 'specify' that in the snap or elsewhere, if so where & how do you check what license is used in the snappy app ?
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<Skuggen> CoderEurope: You could specify in the snapcraft file (but that's deprecated, I think), and when uploading to the store
<Skuggen> s/uploading/publishing
<flexiondotorg> zyga, Thanks!
<CoderEurope> Skuggen: right-oh
-udsbotu:#ubuntu-uos-core- This session has ended.
<mhall119> great session, thanks for all the answers zyga and mvo
<Skuggen> Thanks, all :)
<LarreaMikel> Thank you guys ;)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/11/15/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html
<CoderEurope> Thanks guys !
<flexiondotorg> zyga, mvo dholbach Thanks for the session.
<zyga> thank you everyone
<dholbach> thanks everyone!
<dholbach> that should be quite a bit of information to digest, right? :-)
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> thanks everyone!
<kristbaum> dholbach: absolutly :D
<zyga> if anyone has extra questions feel free to ping us now
<zyga> we'll do our best to answer
<CoderEurope> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/2016-11-15/
<dholbach> thanks zyga, thanks mvo
<dholbach> you are heroes!
<mhall119> lunch time!
<dholbach> dinner time!
<mvo> yummy dinner
<kristbaum> hammer time?
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> it's always hammer time :)
<mhall119> lol
<CoderEurope> the " titanic quarter " snooker is going well :)
<CoderEurope> https://redd.it/55usz5 calming music <3
#ubuntu-uos-core 2016-11-16
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/core/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/11/16/%23ubuntu-uos-core.html
<xeno74> Just for info before the event starts. There is a very active Linux PPC community.
<xeno74> Please look here: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2341450
<xeno74> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2324152
<xeno74> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2301608
<xeno74> http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewforum.php?f=35
<xeno74> https://plus.google.com/u/0/115515624056477014971
<xeno74> Just for info before the event starts. There is a very active Linux PPC community.
<xeno74> Please look here: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2341450
<CoderEurope> xeno74: right-oh ... got links ?
<CoderEurope> oh right-oh cheers
<xeno74> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2324152
<xeno74> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2301608
<xeno74> http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewforum.php?f=35
<xeno74> https://plus.google.com/u/0/115515624056477014971
<CoderEurope> xeno74: That looks a bit ' jumbled ' do you have anything off the wiki-s ?
<xeno74> I wanted to show a little bit the activity of the Linux PPC community
<xeno74> It's impressive
<CoderEurope> ... and the ubuntu wiki's ?
<xeno74> There is a ubuntu ppc wiki
<CoderEurope> yes I asked for linxks.
<xeno74> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
<xeno74> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing/PPC
<xeno74> There are new PowerPC computers available.
 * CoderEurope notes that the Lubuntu PPC is going thru a 'depreciation' stage at the moment.
<xeno74> ubuntu MATE and Lubuntu work on this new PPC computers.
<xeno74> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000
<CoderEurope> I am not an amiga fan of course ;)
<xeno74> http://www.amigaos.net/hardware/133/amigaone-x5000
<xeno74> These are NG Amiga PPC computers.
<xeno74> Xubuntu, Lubuntu, and ubuntu MATE work on these NG Amigas.
<xeno74> Please don't remove the PPC support.
<CoderEurope> xeno74: Do you starWars ? http://wp.me/pk3lN-Y8E
<CoderEurope> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22716/netplan-introduction-and-next-steps/
<JohnFancyPants> 8===D
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | netplan introduction and next steps | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22716/netplan-introduction-and-next-steps/
<CoderEurope> o/
<CoderEurope> What are the policys that are being discussed ?
<CoderEurope> brback ...
<xeno74> I think we shouldn't drop powerpc
<dholbach> I don't think that's in scope for this session :)
<pitti> that's for the following session (architecture support)
<CoderEurope> Are we all ready ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFvVzhh1FPA
<dholbach> almost :)
<kristbaum> Working!!
<mhall119> first session, go!
<dholbach> are we live? :)
<mhall119> yup
<dholbach> brilliant
<minimec> check!
<dholbach> let me know if you want to join the discussion after Martin gave a presentation, let me know and I'll give you the link to the hangout
<kristbaum> seeing the slides: check!
<dholbach> (you can participate on IRC too if you want)
<smoser> well, i'm listening.
<CoderEurope> +1
<dholbach> if you have questions, keep them coming!
<kristbaum> QUESTION: I know it is in the repos for 16.10, but will it become default for 17.04?
<jrwren> can I set a pattern for naming?  for case of dual or quad port nic e.g. right now I have e1000e enp1s0f1: renamed from eth3 and enp1s0f0: renamed from eth1  could I rename to e1000[ab] ?
<dholbach> JosÃ© asked: I might have missed this, where do these yaml files go? and how are they named?
<CoderEurope> dholbach: I cant join 'cos someone is using 'Control room' App in the hangout 'Juan' apparently :(
<dholbach> bizarre!
<CoderEurope> humdinger !
<dholbach> there's no Juan in the hangout
<josvaz3> I might have missed this, where do these yaml files go? and how are they called?
<barry> QUESTION: if i change the yaml is it enough to just call netplan to effect the network reconfiguration?  (i.e. does netplan call the appropriate backend?)
<rharper> josvaz3: from the manpage: All /{lib,etc,run}/netplan/*.yaml are considered.
<josvaz3> thanks ryan
<dholbach> pitti, ^ there's also some questions here :)
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: are the packages up for translation , too ?
 * xnox waves was out for lunch
<xnox> ...
<xnox> reboot & revert the network config?
<xnox> sorry, not reboot - can we not revert the network config, like X reconfiguration in the GUI
<rharper> xnox: /run is temporary
<rharper> I think reboot is a bit much
<xnox> rharper, sure but reverting runtime config would be nicer, without reboot
<rharper> agreed
<xnox> pitti, ^^^^
<CoderEurope> dholbach:   QUESTION: are the packages up for translation , too ?
<rharper> I think it's possible to "revert" even if it disturbs the current connections
<xnox> CoderEurope, wrong channel?! =)
<rharper> downing the links, and bringing them back up
<xnox> CoderEurope, meeting here is about netplan
<dholbach> yes, I'll ask once we're done with the current set of questions
 * xnox shuts up
 * CoderEurope gives dholbach a high five.
<cyphermox> pitti: awe: the bit you're missing is that netplan reapplies things every boot; mobile systems would still use NM. It should be seen like /e/n/i, where NM no longer reads e/n/i
<pitti> CoderEurope: there's not much user visible stuff there; the CLI is, it's not currently i18ned
<cyphermox> on desktop/mobile, netplan doesn't typically write anything for NM, and instead encodes the fact that the default networking system is NM, and wired, wireless, etc is managed there.
<pitti> did the HO just die?
<xnox> pitti, yes
<xnox> pitti, your audio cut out and it's a black box
<pitti> WTH, again
<xnox> there is echo now
<pitti> Error #32
<abeato> pitti, you sounded like darth vader :D
 * CoderEurope has acid reflux :(
<CoderEurope> QUESTION: Where is the link for i18n ?
<pitti> CoderEurope: as I said, it's not currently i18ned, so nothing to translate
<awe> thanks cyphermox.  One question, on desktop if NM is used as the default renderer, does NM write system connection files to /run, or /etc?
<cyphermox> NM will do as usual, write configs to /etc
<CoderEurope> pitti, Could you please add that (i18n) function for command line in launchpad ?
<cyphermox> awe: in that mode, it's just as if netplan wasn't there, and your wired, wireless (any device configured so that NM is the renderer) wouldn't be configured in any special way by NM
<cyphermox> I mean, wouldn't be configured in any special way by netplan, and handled as usual by NM
<awe> k
<dholbach> sorry, network going wonky here :-/
<awe> ;D
<lynorian> How does one get a good way to learn YAML ?
<CoderEurope> pitti, QUESTION: Could you please add that (i18n) function for command line in launchpad ?
<awe> thanks pitti!
<pitti> CoderEurope: it's coming :)
<CoderEurope> pitti, I just remember that it is not difficult to do i18n on launchpad.
<pitti> lynorian: I find http://docs.ansible.com/ansible/YAMLSyntax.html a nice tutorial; http://yaml.org/spec/1.2/spec.html has all the gory details, but really nobody reads/uses that
<pitti> lynorian: you really only need the basics (dicts and lists), which are very natural to write
<lynorian> pitti thank you so much
<CoderEurope> Next meeting: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22714/architecture-discussions/
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<pitti> awe: in the "my DHCP server doesn't remember DUIDs" case, do you actually care about persistent IPs?
<dholbach> hey gQuigs - do you need help to get the session set up?
<pitti> $ ls /var/lib/NetworkManager/*.lease|wc -l
<dholbach> (I'm happy to do it)
<pitti> 729
<pitti> awe: ^ I'm not sure if that is really so much more sensible..
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<awe> pitti, I've had to deal with too many of the form, "my device rebooted and didn't get the same IP address".  There are lots of non-compliant DHCP servers in the world
<awe> that's why lease files are typically written to persistent storage
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<dholbach> who's co-hosting the next session with gQuigs?
<dholbach> I'm wondering if I should already set it up...
<dholbach> xnox, you maybe?
<pitti> I'd think at least slangasek and infinity should be there
<CoderEurope> dholbach: you've 5 mins if your setting it up ....
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<dholbach> hey gQuigs
<gQuigs> hi
<dholbach> do you need help setting up the session with google hangouts?
<xnox> dholbach, i can co-join into the fish-bowl
<gQuigs> I think I've got it..
<dholbach> ok cool
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<dholbach> looking good!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Architecture Discussions | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22714/architecture-discussions/
<CoderEurope> dholbach - a etherpad is needed & I cannot see it (even though I am part of the etherpad team).
<gQuigs> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/bj3TEE3Wp2wUFp3GclOYlc6KeCoXktTVX5jPv3DRDdo
<dholbach> CoderEurope, http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1611-architecture-discussions
<CoderEurope> dholbach: cheers
<gQuigs> anyone who wants to join - https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/bj3TEE3Wp2wUFp3GclOYlc6KeCoXktTVX5jPv3DRDdo
<pitti> is it just me? no youtube yet
<dholbach> yeah, same here
<kristbaum> for me to
<gQuigs> pitti: I'm the only one on the hangout
<dholbach> maybe they're still waiting for somebody?
<dholbach> oh
<gQuigs> anyone else coming?
<gQuigs> xnox?
<CoderEurope> yes we are having difficulties with the launchpad accounts ....
<xnox> i am here...
<gQuigs> oh ok
<xnox> unless i am in a wrong hangout
<gQuigs> well hmm
<gQuigs> I am in a hangout by myself.. is anyone else where you are?
<xnox> there are 4 people.....
<xeno74> Yeah
<lynorian> no microphone on my desktop though
<lynorian> have one on my laptop but it is really bad quality and echos a ton
<dholbach> xnox, do you know who's leading the hangout you're in?
<gQuigs> xnox: what's the link>
<xnox> dholbach, there in brendan
<xnox> kiera
<gQuigs> oh, my hangouts is silently crashing
<xnox> gQuigs, we are in https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/bj3TEE3Wp2wUFp3GclOYlc6KeCoXktTVX5jPv3DRDdo
<xnox> luke and me
<xnox> so far
<dholbach> xnox, I'm happy to update summit - have the hangout link too?
<dholbach> gQuigs, are you happy to join the other one ... or how do we do it?
<gQuigs> I got on the other onee
<dholbach> ok, I'll update summit
<dholbach> somebody have the youtube link?
<A-EON> I need the youtube link too.
<dholbach> xnox, can you ask Brendan?
<lynorian> I am not leader sorry
<xnox> dholbach, where would that be?
<CoderEurope> we are going on 10 minutes late with this hangout.
<xnox> ok previous attempt failed
<xnox> hopefully dholbach will setup a new hangout, send it on air and we will be able to get going then =)
<dholbach> sorry everyone
<gQuigs> sorry about that
<dholbach> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/OWKgk2mScxzRjhJqxD5RieUF0Ini8AGwrMA-EgbGzZ8=
<dholbach> http://youtu.be/jXzYG4d7poQ
<dholbach> live!
<dholbach> sorry about that everyone
<dholbach> we had some mid-air collision between different folks trying to set up the hangout
<A-EON> There is a very active Linux PPC community.
<A-EON> Please look here: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2341450
<flexiondotorg> A-EON, Ubuntu MATE lead here.
<flexiondotorg> I agree active, but how big?
<lynorian> Yes from lubuntu and that is the case
<flexiondotorg> Yes, correct.
<A-EON> ubuntu MATE and Lubuntu work on this new PPC computers.
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu MATE and Lubuntu have PowerPC.
<A-EON> Xubuntu, Lubuntu, and ubuntu MATE work on NG Amigas.
<flexiondotorg> QUESTION: Is this discussion about dropping release architectures or dropping the ports?
<xnox> flexiondotorg, nope, this only about the .iso images at the moment.
<flexiondotorg> OK
<xnox> A-EON, do you mean ppc64el or powerpc ?
<flexiondotorg> A-EON, Means PowerPC.
<xnox> all the new ones are ppc64el which POWER8 and POWER9.
<A-EON> We are using PPC and PPC64 on our NG Amigas
<xnox> flexiondotorg, there are new 32-bit PowerPC big endian? Ubuntu has no support for ppc64 (big endian)
<flexiondotorg> Yes, I am Ubuntu MATE lead.
<xnox> A-EON, we have no support for ppc64 big endian.
<xnox> well, only using powerpc 32bit port
<xnox> flexiondotorg, can you join the hangout?
<lynorian> I am on hangout but no microphone on this computer
<xnox> ditto A-EON ?
<A-EON> Yes, you're right. PowerPC 32bit
<xnox> A-EON, interesting. I was not aware there are new machines. you say NG Amigas is the thing to goog? /me googles
<A-EON> We are using also Fedora 64-bit and openSUSE Tumbleweed 64-bit
<A-EON> But ubuntu ist very important
<A-EON> for us
<A-EON> https://plus.google.com/u/0/115515624056477014971
<A-EON> I meant Fedora and openSUSE PPC64
<A-EON> Most of the NG Amiga users are using ubuntu MATE PPC and Lubuntu PPC
<xnox> A-EON, right, but ubuntu does not have ppc64be port and will not have ppc64be port. since POWER8/9 are ppc64el (little endian).
<A-EON> Yes I know, it was only for your information that Fedora and openSUSE are available as PPC64
<pitti> flexiondotorg, xnox: endianess bugs would also appear on s390x, no? so at leasts that is not an excuse any more to keep powerpc
<xnox> pitti, yes, will address now.
<A-EON> We need Lubuntu PPC and ubuntu MATE PPC for our NG Amigas (AmigaOne X1000 and AmigaOne X5000)
<A-EON> ubuntu MATE PPC and Lubuntu PPC work fantastic on my AmigaOne X1000. See https://plus.google.com/u/0/115515624056477014971
<cyphermox> xnox: tbh, I also run $ubuntu on powerpc; but mostly just for the benefit of being close enough to a ppc64el system to be a pretty quick and cheap way to test things, and the lubuntu and mate images are mostly convenience... but I don't think you really want to count me in any of your stats
<slangasek> A-EON: there may be a browser available currently for powerpc, but 32-bit support for the browsers is going away upstream within the support window of 18.04 LTS
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<A-EON> slangasek: Good to know
<lynorian> Questoin does qupzilla uses webkit as well so not sure it would work
<A-EON> Qupzilla works very well on ubuntu MATE 16.10 PPC.
<lynorian> wow yay it does
<lynorian> it uses qt webkit
<A-EON> We are testing ubuntu MATE 17.10 PPC currently.
<pitti> A-EON: 17.10? can I download it through your crystal ball? :-)
<A-EON> Upgrade :-)
<lynorian> Well there is some talk about qupzilla for when Lubuntu switches to LXQt
<xnox> nice.
<A-EON> There are new PowerPC computers: http://www.a-eon.com/
<A-EON> and ubuntu MATE and Lubuntu PPC work on these computers.
<A-EON> Please don't drop the PPC support.
<cyphermox> A-EON: so that system is a 64-bit powerpc architecture but wants to run a 32-bit bigendian kernel?
<cyphermox> for example, the AmigaOne X5000
<lynorian> I don't think we have 64 bit graphical ones for those ?
<A-EON> No, 64-bit kernel with 32-bit userland (ubuntu+Debian)
<slangasek> cyphermox: if it's not P8 or above it must run a big-endian port, it doesn't have to be a 32-bit kernel but it has to be powerpc not ppc64el
<A-EON> 64-bit kernel with the 32-bit powerpc userland
<slangasek> xnox: should I join the HO?
<xnox> slangasek, yes
<xnox> slangasek,
<xnox> New Hangout: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/OWKgk2mScxzRjhJqxD5RieUF0Ini8AGwrMA-EgbGzZ8=
<A-EON> Our latest PowerPC computer is the AmigaOneX5000 with a Freescale P5020 CPU.
<A-EON> http://www.amigaos.net/hardware/133/amigaone-x5000
<amircito> Hi
<A-EON> Latest NG Amiga PPC Linux news: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41351&forum=34
<lynorian> Questoin when you said that 32 bit upstream support for browsers will go away which browsers were you talking about ?
<slangasek> postpone the discussion until 2018> if we try to wait until 2018 to have the discussion, there won't be enough runway to wind down the architectures gracefully for 18.04.
<cyphermox> lynorian: firefox, for example.
<A-EON> You can buy a new PowerPC computer: http://www.a-eon.com/?page=x5000
<seb128> slangasek, what do you mean by wind down?
<xnox> seb128, sunset
<seb128> the discussion is about stopping building images, not about stopping supporting the arch
<seb128> no?
<lynorian> Lubuntu had more 32 bit downloads than 64 bit
<slangasek> seb128: let people in the community know in advance that it's going away
<cyphermox> slangasek: yes, I know only P8 does le.
<xnox> seb128, well for powerpc it may be winding down the archive too.
<seb128> not for i386 though
<slangasek> seb128: and for powerpc the discussion is definitely about dropping the archive from the architecture
<pitti> flexiondotorg: and these downloads are "real" users, or could they just be mirrors?
<seb128> I don't have an opinion about powerpc
<xnox> A-EON, would you like to commit $$$ and developer time to maintain powerpc port?
<seb128> I don't think from a desktop perspective we care about ppc
<cyphermox> xnox: gQuigs: you're now past halfway through the hangout, should talk about i386 too
<A-EON> Why should we drop PPC if new PPC computers are available?
<xnox> A-EON, at the moment it looks like, 18.04 LTS is likely to have no graphics stack nor modern JS/web-browser stack.
<cyphermox> (or am I stuck with a bit latency between video and IRC)
<flexiondotorg> pitti, Actual user downloads.
<flexiondotorg> Initiated from the Ubuntu MATE website only.
<xnox> A-EON, hardware is available. there are no humans developing powerpc 32 big endian.
<cyphermox> A-EON: ^ that
<xnox> A-EON, can you for example make resource available for CI builds for various upstreams, to run test builds, unit tests. those sort of thing.
<cyphermox> powerpc is a fair bit of effort to keep working, for instance, very late last cycle we had boot issues on powerpc, that took some time to fix.
<xnox> A-EON, we can give you the archive & mini.iso that boots and installs from ports.ubuntu.com. But somebody needs to keep fixing X stack & Web stack.
<pitti> also, library transitions that are stuck on powerpc FTBFS
<A-EON> xnox: We are a small Linux support team and we need the ubuntu infrastructure.
<A-EON> xnox: I see
<cyphermox> xnox: the doesn't fix all the fun cases just below X and web.
<cyphermox> graphics drivers, booting, etc.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh A-EON is a hardware manufacture of some sort ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or OEM een
<A-EON> Yes
<lynorian> Well qupzilla is still on active development and Ktrad said works well on that
<lynorian> Althoguh hangouts don't work on it
<xnox> cyphermox, well when i say fixing X stack & Web stack => i assume they would fix everything that fails upto there; e.g. if toolchain can't built Web stack =) somebody should fix the toolchain.
<A-EON> Yeah, Qupzilla works fine on ubuntu MATE PPC
<cyphermox> xnox: oh yeah, definitely.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> A-EON, not heard of you before at all, (or maybe I have ) I guess you don't sell   in the UK that's why.
<A-EON> We are in Cardiff
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> A-EON, I joined here a bit late, but do you sell Ubuntu PC's or something ?
<A-EON> AmigaOnes
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I think someone said the Amiga was going to come back to life actually to me before
<A-EON> AmigaOne X5000 with ubuntu MATE PPC support
<A-EON> http://www.a-eon.com/?page=x5000
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I never had an Amiga,  if that's come back, what's the point having one now reallly
<A-EON> http://www.amigaos.net/hardware/133/amigaone-x5000
<A-EON> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000
<lynorian> yeah we need people to fix the bugs on X I have heard some but I don't have powerpc hardware my self
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<SebthreeBQM10HD> what's that ubuntu server being dropped ??
<A-EON> You can buy new PPC computers if you like ;-)
<lynorian> Lubuntu still has lots of i386 downloads
<xnox> A-EON, things that need to be done urgently are (a) migrate to grub on powerpc (b) increase maintaince contributions up and down the stack
<slangasek> SebthreeBQM10HD: powerpc ubuntu-server ISO being dropped
<slangasek> is the proposal
<SebthreeBQM10HD> if there's i586, I guess i386 can go ?
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<SebthreeBQM10HD> slangasek, oh ppc  ubuntu server ok
<xnox> SebthreeBQM10HD, we have one architecture, called i386, which actually is i686 without sse
<slangasek> SebthreeBQM10HD: there is no separate i586 architecture; i386 is the architecture name for all 32-bit x86
<seb128> I think we still have a preference to keep building i386 isos as long as we have a way to support a webbrowser
<SebthreeBQM10HD> slangasek, oh so 32bit Ubuntu is being dropped ?
<A-EON> We are booting ubuntu MATE and Lubuntu PPC with the U-Boot and CFE firmware. We don't need a boot manager like Yaboot, Grub etc
<xnox> seb128, hm. so 17.04 and 17.10, but not 18.04.
<seb128> xnox, I guess
<xnox> seb128, as there will not be either firefox nor chromium for 18.04.
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<A-EON> Our firmwares can boot the Linux kernel directly.
<A-EON> AmigaOne X5000: U-Boot firmware
<tyhicks> right, it doesn't sound like we'll be able to provide 5 years of i386 browser support in 18.04
<lynorian> I am not sure i386 unity 7 would perform that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> QUESTION; Joned late, is Ubuntu 32bit being dropped ?
<A-EON> AmigaOne X1000: CFE firmware
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<seb128> xnox, +1
<tyhicks> xnox: +1
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<A-EON> Please don't drop Ubuntu PPC. We need it for our new PPC NG Amigas.
<amircito> Yay!
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<xnox> A-EON, note this discussion/session is about i386 & powerpc, with different timelines and decissions for both.
<amircito> Ubuntu 32 bit will not be dropped.
<xnox> A-EON, if you want commercial agreement & commercial commitment to support powerpc port by canonical. You can engage with canonical on a comercial Ubuntu Adavantage support.
<A-EON> xnox: Good idea. :-)
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uos-core to: Track: Core | Building snaps in Launchpad | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22711/building-snaps-in-launchpad/
<seb128> thanks!
<A-EON> Thanks
<slangasek> A-EON: as I said in the session, if people want powerpc to remain, they will need to take up the maintenance of it
<xnox> A-EON, powerpc is a community port at the moment, with very small community support. if you cannot achieve commercial agreement for $$$, developer time & effort must be contributed, as there is very little of that in debian & ubuntu and the wider floss community
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so for 18.04 32bit will probably be drpped?
<gQuigs> SebthreeBQM10HD:  32 bit is vaque.. PowerPC might be dropped
<amircito> No
<gQuigs> i386 might be dropped from ubuntu-desktop  ISO
<slangasek> gQuigs: were you taking notes somewhere other than the etherpad?
<xnox> SebthreeBQM10HD, by dropped what do you mean, and by 32bit which of the three 32bit ports do you mean?!
<flexiondotorg> gQuigs, You are Brian Quiggley?
<amircito> well for the desktop images
<xnox> SebthreeBQM10HD, please use armhf, powerpc, or i386 dpkg arches =)
<gQuigs> slangasek: I was not
<SebthreeBQM10HD> intl amd x86
<gQuigs> flexiondotorg: indeed
<slangasek> gQuigs, SebthreeBQM10HD: for 18.04, 32-bit x86 /will/ be dropped for Ubuntu Desktop
<xnox> SebthreeBQM10HD, please use "i386" to refer to it.
<flexiondotorg> gQuigs, Thanks for hosting that discussion.
<slangasek> gQuigs: oh. seemed like you were taking note,s but I don't see notes in the etherpad :)
<gQuigs> slangasek: I usually redo the notes after I watch the discussion later... nice thing about the recording
<A-EON> Is PPC definitely dropped?
<slangasek> maybe you were just summarizing out loud :)
<slangasek> gQuigs: oh cool :)
<flexiondotorg> I wasn't planning on dropping in, but with reference to Ubuntu MATE I thought I should provide some background.
<lynorian> does someone have a link for firefox dropping 32 bit support
<SebthreeBQM10HD> dropped why since unity 8 doesnt support it?
<cjwatson> Hangout URL for next session (building snaps in Launchpad): https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/VUEQUR_s34l7BtYkQH8tDHhjLWwieMqZxa6lyZnhl3k=
<gQuigs> flexiondotorg: very very very helpful, thanks!
<xnox> seb128, shall i cause PR fire storm by blogging no ubuntu desktop i386 images for 18.04?!
<flexiondotorg> gQuigs, np
<A-EON> Is PPC definitely dropped?
<gQuigs> A-EON: no, but to summarize, it needs new developers
<cjwatson> anyone want to join the next session so that I can tell that the hangout URL works?
<este-el-paz> A-EON: PPC is "dropping"
<SebthreeBQM10HD> xnox may as well.blog it? people will know over two years. early then
<xnox> A-EON, we have 5 things on powerpc in Ubuntu: the archive that everything is built from, minimal d-i mini.iso installer, desktop installers for Mate & Lubuntu flavours, and server isntaller.
<gQuigs> thanks all, bbl
<xnox> A-EON, we are dropping ubuntu-server powerpc image.
<A-EON> xnox: OK
<xnox> A-EON, the desktop flavours are in serious concern as to how long they will remain working as they rapidly degrade in quality
<slangasek> A-EON, xnox: next session is starting; if more discussion is needed on this, I suggest #ubuntu-powerpc
<pitti> and I figure the archive will gradually crumble as we remove (instead of fix) ppc specific FTBFS
<xnox> A-EON, if there is no improved maintainance, and all flavours become unsupportable, all of the architecture will be dropped.
<xnox> A-EON, this is your 5 minutes to midnight warning =)
<seb128> xnox, you can but write the webbrowser justification
<cjwatson> next session starting in one minute
<A-EON> xnox: Thank you for your explanation
<xnox> seb128, i'll write a draft and will review it with you.
<cjwatson> ok, going on air nowish
<seb128> xnox, thanks
<LarreaMikel> Is this also the channel for the "snaps in Launchpad" session?
<xnox> yes
<LarreaMikel> ok, thank you ;)
<LarreaMikel> QUESTION: Does uploading and building a yaml to launchpad imply that it is automatically uploaded to the store?
<barry> QUESTION: is there an advantage of mirroring over importing, and if so, how would we switch from an existing import to mirroring?
<dholbach> barry, want to join the hangout?
<barry> cjwatson: unfortunately hangouts don't work for me :(
<flexiondotorg> QUESTION: Can you explain the rationale for Launchpad denying Internet access during the build step for a snap please?
<barry> cjwatson: thanks!
<flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Excellent, thanks!
<dholbach> QUESTION: How is the architecture mapping working in the store? I don't think I've used that feature yet. :)
<LarreaMikel> QUESTION: Do you suggest to use launchpad as building platform (for armhf for example) or is it better to use a VM?
<flexiondotorg> QUESTION: What is the roadmap for webhook support?
<dholbach> brilliant, thank you!
<cjwatson> any other questions?
<flexiondotorg> Thanks.
<dholbach> brilliant work! <3
<popey> \o/
<dholbach> thanks a lot Colin! :)
<barry> great stuff cjwatson, thanks!
<seb128> thanks cjwatson!
<cjwatson> ended session, thanks
<LarreaMikel> thank youo very much!
<cjwatson> thanks for the interest!
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<CoderEurope> sry I missed this -shall have a look at the y-tube again in my saved list: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjZx2otW2c4
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