#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-16
<MarkDude> grantbow, ping
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-17
<MarkDude> jono - you going to Maker Faire this weekend? What about your lovely wife too?
<jono> MarkDude, not sure yet
<MarkDude> Ok- I have a few tickets- there will be a few of there for Sat
<MarkDude> Oh and in the spirit of humour - I started a rumour that Larry Cafiero was joining your band
<MarkDude> http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/fifthpillar/2011/05/17/rumor-mill-larry-cafiero-headed-for-omgubuntu-or-a-career-in-music/
<MarkDude> He just left Fedora- and has not announced what he was doing - so I speculated
<rww> maybe he and mdz are starting a Super Secret Thing
<MarkDude> lol
<MarkDude> I almost felt bad about OMGubuntu being the butt of the joke- then realized it's OMG
 * DarkwingDuck sighs
<DarkwingDuck> I'm tired of tailoring Resumes
<DarkwingDuck> Anyone want to hire a geeky ex-military guy for a full time job?
<DarkwingDuck> I have expirence in Web Dev, Documentation and QA
<DarkwingDuck> :P
<sn9> documentation is in higher demand
<DarkwingDuck> Looking for a job. If anyone knows of anyone looking my resumes are on my site... www.wonderly.com
<MarkDude> Put a landing page together?
<MarkDude> Throw it out on Twitter
 * MarkDude and others will RT it
<MarkDude> Get on some podcasts also, IMHO
<MarkDude> Contact Ohio Teams ring of fire podcast- and tell them they need you on there talking about KDE
<MarkDude> and that paultag will make them an offer they cant refuse if they dont
 * MarkDude is suggesting higher visibility is key
 * DarkwingDuck nods
<DarkwingDuck> I need to "Vacation" to the Bay area to hunt.
<DarkwingDuck> That's where the jobs are.
<MarkDude> There is hiring going on
<MarkDude> If you are ok with being evil- Google is always hiring
<MarkDude> Also finding a charity you can demonstrate some of your skills with - works. Like telling people I can write OR actually using my words to do it
<MarkDude> Maybe you can throw in some stuff about being a cage fighter on the side
<DarkwingDuck> LOL
<DarkwingDuck> I'm too fat to pass that one off.
<rww> now now, Google has very nice people working for it ;P
 * MarkDude can photo edit you fighting in a south American wrestling match
<rww> it just turns out that when you put a lot of nice people together they get ethically challenged
<rww> hence every country ever :\
<sn9> google is anti-fat?
<MarkDude> El oscuro pato ala is DarkwingDuck is gringo Spanish
<sn9> wut
<seidos> ala is duck
<seidos> duck Allah
<seidos> don't give in to hate, that leads to the darkside
<seidos> oh, so i was thinking, Obiwan failed.  he should've taken Anakin's bloody stump to his ship
<MarkDude> seidos, he could make clones- like all the Fetts
<seidos> i guess he rectified it by letting Vader halve him...sorta' kinda'
<seidos> MarkDude: clones of Anakin?  haha, sound diabolical
<seidos> *s
<seidos> or like Palpatine, he was into the cloning in the dark horse comics
<MarkDude> There was Boba Fett, jango as well as Floyd
<MarkDude> Most folks forget about Floyd fett
<seidos> never heard of Floyd fett, was he a crazy diamond?
 * MarkDude just made that part up
<MarkDude> Always found the name Floyd amusing
<seidos> shine on you crazy diamond
 * seidos bows to everybody
<seidos> night
<MarkDude> namaste seidos
<DarkwingDuck> Garg, I don't have the education that Google is looking for.
<MarkDude> Have you done any talks?
<sn9> edumacation?
<sn9> they need that?
<MarkDude> its highly overated , imho
<sn9> they don't ask for it
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UbuntuHours edited
<iLOVEbees> I Love BEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<rww> okay
<akk> Don't move to Marin county. http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_18073434
<MarkDude> Bees are good- they keep our food supply working
<MarkDude> Does California Team get any free books from O'Reilly?
<MarkDude> They are very nice about sending some- They have given some to GK- and other local TEams- we should ask for some
<MarkDude> WA Teams request >>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WashingtonTeam/BookRequests
<jtatum> packt and apress also send books to user groups for reviews
<MarkDude> Cool thanks jtatum I will put those on my list also
<jtatum> great :)
<jtatum> jamalta: are you going to UH tonight or tomorrow?
<pleia2> jtatum: you're a day off :)
<jtatum> right yeah, right
<jtatum> sorry migraine :)
<pleia2> no fun, hope you feel better!
<jtatum> i'm very fortunate to not get the pain.. just feeling odd and colors
<jamalta> jtatum: where is it tonight?
<jamalta> i thought the Sf one was tomorrow
<jtatum> i misspoke :)
<jamalta> oh, pleia2 already corrected that
<jtatum> tomorrow or thursday :)
<jamalta> i'm probably going to end up at the one tomorrow.. i don't think i have anything else planned.
<jamalta> are you coming up for it?
<jamalta> oh also, i just released this today if any of you android/u1 users want to help test it :) https://market.android.com/details?id=com.jamalfanaian.chalk
<MarkDude> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WashingtonTeam/BookRequests Updated the page with your suggestions jtatum
 * MarkDude assumes that I should add this to a meeting and let the talking start- as opposed to just creating a similar page for Cali Team?
<jtatum> agenda item sounds good MarkDude - or an email to the list
<MarkDude> Ok- I can use the same one I sent to ML in WA- and OR
<akk> What's to discuss -- besides where they should send the books?
<akk> oh, I guess how to decide who gets them
<MarkDude> akk- I agree-
<akk> Where to send is kind of a problem, I guess, since we're so spread out.
<akk> Nobody's going to want to be charged with re-shipping books.
 * MarkDude just triple checks- stuff now- I had suggested we reduce the 3 links to IRC meeting page- there was much to discuss
<MarkDude> there are actual logistics here
 * akk would be happy with "send them to pleia2 and she'll do something sensible with them"
<MarkDude> OR and WA are a bit easier to sort out- Portland for OR is where they get shipped
<akk> but that's easier for me to say than for someone in SoCal :)
<MarkDude> And Seattle for WA
 * MarkDude agrees
<MarkDude> The same could be said for DarkwingDuck
<pleia2> O'Reilly can ship books directly to people who request the review copies (I spoke with Marsee about this at CLS West, I've known her for years via Philly stuff and she said they were happy to help)
<pleia2> apress' program is mediocre, prentice hall just ships books automatically and could be tricky distribution wise since we'd need to reship
<pleia2> honestly it might be easier to just hook up these programs into the local lugs instead of the loco
<nhaines> pleia2: my talk at the University of Redlands last week was a hit.  They emailed me after and want to pay me an honorarium.  :)
<pleia2> nhaines: congrats!
<rww> what does "honorarium" mean?
<nhaines> rww: it's a stipend for speaking.
<rww> cool
<akk> penlug is already in O'Reilly's book program, but they're kind of fading as a LUG.
<akk> Yay nhaines!
<nhaines> "A payment given for professional services that are rendered nominally without charge.", is what Google says.
<nhaines> It was a nice surprise.  :)
<MarkDude> So you are saying we should NOT do this pleia2 ?
<nhaines> At this rate I'll snag a keynote some day!
<pleia2> MarkDude: no, I said "it might be easier"
 * MarkDude disagrees- Local Teams are short on perks- this can be one of them
<MarkDude> congrats nhaines
<MarkDude> Ah ok
<pleia2> MarkDude: if you're willing to find a way to handle logistics and fees for shipping, please do, but I can't commit to it
<MarkDude> Well I volunteer to do the work on it
<pleia2> I'm already doing it for the CDs and t-shirts, I can't really take on more
<MarkDude> Fair enough
<akk> How do keynotes work? Are they usually invited, or do people send keynote proposals like for other conference talks?
<pleia2> depends on the conference, but usually invited from what I've seen
 * akk is fine with MarkDude handling book logistics, sounds great!
<pleia2> for fosscon I was invited with a vague subject, and I followed up the invitation with a fuller proposal for them to review
<nhaines> I think some conferences will choose to feature submitted talks, but most keynotes are invited I think.
<nhaines> I'm not sure it makes sense for the LoCo to collect books.  The LoCo's never been able to handle swag outside of very limited conference supplies.
 * pleia2 eyes two boxes of conference supplies in her office
<pleia2> for phillychix books I had a bookshelf, but again that was just one metro area so I met up with people to do borrowing and stuff
<MarkDude> akk- I was asked to keynote a conference in AZ- the organizers just came up to me at Scale
<nhaines> pleia2: yeah, it makes a lot of sense for a user group.
 * MarkDude was unfortunatley able to do it
<pleia2> it's so nice when system documentation projects publish epubs
<akk> I like epubs now. Before getting an android device, notsomuch.
<akk> It's a shame ebook formats are so fragmented, and so poorly supported on linux.
<pleia2> yeah, it's the nook that did it for me
<MarkDude> Oreilly has Ebooks also- logistics would NOT be an issue there- at least I hope not :)
<pleia2> you'd have to look into their policy for ebooks, it might actually be *harder* logistically if multiple copies existing violates license terms
<akk> You can still do ebooks the same way as other books -- decides who gets it (typically whoever wants it most) and email it to them, or give them the code or whatever.
<pleia2> but this is all speculation, they didn't include ebooks in their lug program when I used it
 * MarkDude will get details on this
<akk> I've gotten ebooks via the penlug O'Reilly review program.
<pleia2> cool
 * MarkDude has coupon for FREE ebook- I can PM it akk
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-18
<nhaines> jono: ooh, ooh, what's engineering management?
<jono> nhaines, eh?
<rww> I suspect nhaines is looking at Canonical's jobs page ;P
<nhaines> jono: I just got a LinkedIn email saying you'd updated your profile.
<rww> oh. well never mind then ;P
<jono> nhaines, oh yeah
<DarkwingDuck> jono: Do you know where the design team holds the paw logo for Oneiric?
<jono> DarkwingDuck, no idea
<nhaines> DarkwingDuck: probably in an Adobe Illustrator file.
 * DarkwingDuck grumbles
 * pleia2 chuckles
<nhaines> I'd settle for updated business card artwork.  :(
<DarkwingDuck> pleia2: Hey, I know... can you take a picture of the logo on your shirt?
<DarkwingDuck> I'll just build an SVG from that.
<DarkwingDuck> nhaines: how many CDs do you think you guys'll need up in LA?
<pleia2> it's in the dryer
<jamalta> DarkwingDuck: would this work? http://www.flickr.com/photos/trevi55/5705047100/
<pleia2> there you go :)
<DarkwingDuck> YES!
<DarkwingDuck> jamalta: thank you!
<jamalta> DarkwingDuck: np :)
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: I'm shipping some directly to nhaines
<nhaines> DarkwingDuck: I don't know.  My request was only for UHLF, OCLUG, and an independant classroom who asked UHLF.
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: I figure I send you the SD ones :)
<nhaines> pleia2: I realized about 10 minutes after I sent the email that I didn't send any shipping info, so let me know if you need it  :)
<pleia2> nhaines: I replied asking if you had the same addy as last time :)
<pleia2> if yes, then no!
<DarkwingDuck> ahhhhh, Got ya
<nhaines> pleia2: Ooh, I never saw it.... updating my phone on a Friday was fun but not smart... it wiped the phone's memory.
<nhaines> pleia2: Yup, same addy and everything.  :)
<pleia2> ok cool
<nhaines> Not only did it wipe the phone but it broke Netflix support so :(
<pleia2> doh :(
<nhaines> At least I had the forethought to back up my data and apps first.  :)  But still.  Lost my gas mileage data.
<pleia2> ok, so far CDs being sent out to San Diego (and surrounding), lake forest, sacramento and mt view
<nhaines> \o/
<DarkwingDuck> Whoot!
<nhaines> pleia2: were there enough CDs to send an extra set for OCLUG and for the training classroom?
<DarkwingDuck> Ohhh, Also, I'm starting plans for a SCaLE booth
<pleia2> nhaines: yep, sending your final totals
<nhaines> pleia2: ooh, thanks!  I can let them know this week.  :)
<pleia2> no 10.04s though, I think during that release the CA ones were sent to Flannel and grantbow got ones for up here from YokoZar
<pleia2> I don't have any of them
<nhaines> Ah, yes, I did find that email after all (not used to Evolution's threaded views).  There may not be any more left, but if that's the case I'll lightscribe some up pretty.
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyRelease edited
<erichammond> pleia2: I can act as  a distributor for CDs in the Los Angeles area if folks need them here.  I live and work on the East and West sides of the city.
<pleia2> erichammond: ok, can you touch base with DarkwingDuck? I am sending a big package his way and he said he'd bring some up to the LA area (he's in San Diego)
<pleia2> if he can't make it up I'll send some more down
<erichammond> pleia2: will do.  (I also work with friends who drive North to the valley, South to the beach cities, and inwards to the Hollywood area)
<seidos> erichammond: you're in l.a.?  hey, me too
<erichammond> hmmm... What else could I distribute ;-)
<erichammond> seidos: I live in Arcadia and work in Santa Monica.
<seidos> erichammond: i thought you were in the Bay Area.  i thought i met an eric out there
<seidos> i'm not familiar with the Arcadia area, Santa Monica yes
<erichammond> speaking of which, it's time for my commute back home.  Arcadia is just East of Pasadena.
<seidos> i live near Culver City
<pleia2> seidos: the eric you met up here is probably eps
<seidos> have a save trip
<seidos> *safe
<seidos> pleia2: ah
<seidos> i should've known there is more than 1 eric, there is more than one kevin
<rww> only one of me so far i think
<rww> (my brain just went "any other p... prin... wait no. umm. oh there we go"
<pleia2> it's always cause for celebration when there is another elizabeth :)
<pleia2> (for me anyway)
<DarkwingDuck> More tehen 1 David too
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/11/April edited
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyRelease edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/Current edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/11/April edited
<YokoZar> pleia2: for what it's worth I got CDs shipped directly from one of the women who organize UDS at Canonical (the one who wasn't there this time actually)
<DarkwingDuck> Anyone still up?
<DarkwingDuck> Does this http://imm.io/5JcU look like this banner? http://www.flickr.com/photos/trevi55/5705047100/sizes/l/in/photostream/
<jmarsden> DarkwingDuck: The first one lacks the copyright symbol after the word ubuntu, and the text below the graphic, but otherwise, yes.  Why are we playing "spot the difference", by the way?
<DarkwingDuck> Because I build the graphic from scratch based off the photo.
<DarkwingDuck> I wanted to see how it matched
<jono> DarkwingDuck, ping?
<DarkwingDuck> jono: Pong
<MarkDude> Has anyone else decided to go to Maker Faire this Saturday?
<crashsystems> where is that MarkDude ?
<MarkDude> San Mateo
<MarkDude> in the land of enchantment
<MarkDude> :D
<crashsystems> where is that in relation to sunnyvale?
<akk> northwest
<MarkDude> Sunnyvale is much better
<MarkDude> lol
<akk> I thought the land of enchantment was New Mexico.
<MarkDude> It will be enchanting- there will be self powered cupcakes there
<crashsystems> I don't know how long it takes to get just about anywhere around here, except SF.
<akk> Figure maybe half an hour, 40 min from Sunnyvale to San Mateo (I'm not sure exactly where Maker Faire is, need to look that up).
<crashsystems> via public transit?
<akk> no, via car
<akk> Transit times obviously depend on exactly where on each end ... Caltrain from Sunnyvale to San Mateo is probably 20 min or so, but you could check caltrain.org to know for sure.
<MarkDude> http://makezine.com/makerfaire/bayarea/2011/alternative.csp
<MarkDude> Caltrain is actually easier than BART here
<MarkDude> For TedxHayward- BART is better
<akk> Hmm, is parking expensive for those who drive? Any idea?
<akk> Oh, they have a page for it -- some free parking, woo. http://makerfaire.com/bayarea/2011/car.csp
<MarkDude> No too far away it says
<iheartubuntu> are there any easy linux solutions for hooking up something to a TV to view websites?
<iheartubuntu> my wife mostly watches russian TV shows and russian movies from russian websites and click the full screen button. something easier than hooking up a computer to the TV
<iheartubuntu> i wonder if boxee can handle websites
<seidos> isn't it like medibuntu or something?  i think the problem is more hardware though, need to have compatible output from computer to t.v./monitor
<iheartubuntu> dang, boxee doesnt have 32 bit anymore
<iheartubuntu> i tired installing the 64 bit deb my forcing the install. it installed, but wont run
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: you want to view a computer using a TV without hooking up a computer to a TV?
<iheartubuntu> pretty much :)
<iheartubuntu> something like boxee probably
<iheartubuntu> or XBMC
<sn9> boxee is a computer
<sn9> so is xbmc
<nhaines> Yeah, those are both computers.
<sn9> so based on your specs, they don't qualify
<iheartubuntu> something simpler like a dvd player or playstation
<iheartubuntu> but can handle browsing the web
<sn9> a ps3 is a  computer, too
<nhaines> My Blu-ray player is running Linux.
<iheartubuntu> i realize at some point its a computer... im not trying to hook up an orange to the tv
<nhaines> Actually, so do the WD TV Live series of media players we make.  :)
<sn9> would an orange suit your purpose?
<iheartubuntu> i cannot get a computer hooked to the TV without fighting it
<nhaines> Why not?  What are your TV's inputs?
<iheartubuntu> although ive never tried HDMI connection if thats possible
<iheartubuntu> VGA out from a netbook
<iheartubuntu> when connected to any TV the screen jumps around to different sizes. its not very user friendly.
<iheartubuntu> both in ubuntu and xp
<nhaines> If your TV doesn't have anything but VGA-in, it sounds like more like a monitor.
<iheartubuntu> i was unable to hook up a projector to the netbook either
<iheartubuntu> akk was helping me way back on that
<iheartubuntu> its either the operator or the netbook
<iheartubuntu> :D
<iheartubuntu> ive tried these things on multiple TVs too
<sn9> what netbook is it?
<nhaines> Are we focusing on the netbook now or the TV?
<iheartubuntu> acer inspire
<iheartubuntu> and i have an acer laptop that wont hook up to TV or projector either
<sn9> the celeron one or the atom?
<iheartubuntu> wonder if its an acer prob
<iheartubuntu> atom netbook
<sn9> so it has intel video? are you using the intel proprietary binary video driver?
<sn9> last i checked, atom required that
<iheartubuntu> this i do not know
<sn9> unless you installed it manually, likely not
<iheartubuntu> i'll check it tonight thanks sn9
<iheartubuntu> no i didnt install it
<iheartubuntu> im not even sure what version ubuntu is on it
<iheartubuntu> like a 10.x version
<sn9> i'm assuming vga is its only video output
<sn9> btw, i know i'm late to the convo, but what exactly is your use case?
<nhaines> sn9: media playback and web browsing on a TV>
<sn9> that is a potential solution, not the use case itself. what is the media playback and browsing needed for?
<nhaines> sn9: that's not a solution, it's the use case.  His wife wants to view Russian video and browse Russian web sites using a TV as a display.
<sn9> i don't think that calls for a netbook
<nhaines> Me either, but that's what he's using right now apparently.
<sn9> a netbook would be undesirable for this in a multitude of ways
<nhaines> That might be why he's asking for alternate solutions.
<sn9> HTPC ftw
<sn9> mythbuntu
<sn9> does she subscribe to RTN?
<nhaines> sn9: I was going to suggest mythbuntu, but he won't elaborate on the TV or other details, so...  it's hard to recommend anythinh.
<sn9> or NTVi?
<nhaines> Plus, he said he didn't want to use a computer, so that rules out Boxee, XBMC, Mythbuntu, and so on.
<sn9> or Dish Network?
<sn9> a netbook is a computer, so not wanting to use one is already moot
<nhaines> sn9: he wants to replace the netbook.  His current setup isn't working or presumably he wouldn't be asking.
<sn9> HTPC is more suitable than a netbook
<iheartubuntu> no, we have no cable tv. just a HD digital antenna I built :) we get an italian channel which she loves since she speaks italian
<nhaines> sn9: I agree but he doesn't want one.
<iheartubuntu> sorry. was working on a letter to my city council :) hope to get an idea of a local currency going here
<iheartubuntu> what is an HTPC
<sn9> comcast makes both RTN and ORT-C1R available
<iheartubuntu> something like a boxee?
<nhaines> It's a home theater PC.
<sn9> are you on comcast?
<iheartubuntu> i dont mind boxee or the like if i dont have problems with a hookup
<DarkwingDuck> iheartubuntu: You do graphics for the countdown/banners and such?
<sn9> oh wait, i misread "no cable" as "cable"
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: you said your TV only has VGA input and no other options.
<sn9> there's an italian channel over the air??
<iheartubuntu> nhaines, yah vga
<iheartubuntu> yep! here in LA anyhow
<sn9> no, he said it also has hdmi
<iheartubuntu> can boxee, mythtv, xbmc do web browsing though?
<sn9> yes
<iheartubuntu> i dont have hdmi
<nhaines> sn9: no, he said he'd use HDMI if it were an option.
<iheartubuntu> darkwingduck yes
<sn9> it is an option if the tv has it
<DarkwingDuck> iheartubuntu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~david.wonderly/Graphics/Oneiric/Ubuntu-Oneiric-Ocelot-Banner.png
<nhaines> sn9: he's said twice now the TV doesn't do anything but VGA.
<DarkwingDuck> iheartubuntu: and here is the SVG if you want to use it. http://people.ubuntu.com/~david.wonderly/Graphics/Oneiric/Ubuntu-Oneiric-Ocelot-Banner.svg
<sn9> must be a small tv
<nhaines> More projects should use SVG.
<pleia2> nhaines: +1
<iheartubuntu> sn9 - i think the italian channel in los angeles is 31.10 on digital HD
<iheartubuntu> i'll double check if interested
<nhaines> pleia2: if you haven't shipped those CDs yet I think I want to change my shipping address.  :P
<DarkwingDuck> I do 99% of my stuff in inkscape now so all my projects will be SVG
<pleia2> nhaines: you're in luck! the boxes are still sitting next to me, running out at lunchtime
<nhaines> \o/
<iheartubuntu> there is a new inkscape book out. i just posted an article about it
<iheartubuntu> darkwingduck - do you need me to do anything with the SVG?
<DarkwingDuck> No, I just wanted to give it to you in case you wanted to use the paws. AFAIK I'm the only one other then canonical that has them.... I built them last night.
<nhaines> I know Unity gave a lot of Ubuntu users pause.
<DarkwingDuck> hehehe
<MarkDude> Unity was not unifying?
<iheartubuntu> my dad just upgraded yesterday... "what the h*ll are these icons? wheres my bottom bar?"
<DarkwingDuck> hehehe
<sn9> iheartubuntu: so other than the italian channel, most of the video is streamed over the 'net?
<iheartubuntu> pretty much yes.
<iheartubuntu> there are tons of russian tv channels on the net, and russian sites with movies, cartoons, and specials
<iheartubuntu> its huge in russian to have movies made with the countries top stars each new years. she can only find them online and i dont have time to download them and burn them to a DVD
<sn9> so they are mostly downloads, no?
<iheartubuntu> kinda like different fairy tales each year
<iheartubuntu> they are streaming videos
<sn9> please tell me the streaming does not require SilverLight
<iheartubuntu> i used to download them from the tmp folder, use devede to burn them to a disc for her to watch
<iheartubuntu> i just dont have time anymore
<iheartubuntu> no
<sn9> i saw several russian movie sites that use it
<iheartubuntu> mostly flash and i think some of the sites are moving to html5
<iheartubuntu> gavareet paruski?
<iheartubuntu> darkwingduck, thanks :) i should make a 11.10 countdown now
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<DarkwingDuck> lemme know when you do. I'll toss it up.
<DarkwingDuck> I'll even build a Kubuntu and Xubuntu banners for ya.
<nhaines> Only 148 more days until Ubuntu 11.10.
<iheartubuntu> im gonna be changing up my site dramatically soon. i think it will work out better long term
<DarkwingDuck> I found a german site that had a couple. So I'm sporting that on my blog.
<iheartubuntu> pleia2 had some good input about the big graphic headlines. takes up a lot of space and i dont have time to change the graphic often
<DarkwingDuck> iheartubuntu: have you seen my redone blog?
<sn9> Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÐ°-ÑÑÐ¾ Ð½Ðµ Ð²Ð¸Ð´ÐµÐ» ÑÑÐ¾ Ð±Ñ ÑÐ¸Ð»ÑÐ¼Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÐ°Ð·ÑÐ²Ð°Ð»Ð¸ Ð¸ÑÐ¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÐ·ÑÑ html5
<MarkDude> Hey thats not an alphabet I caan read
<sn9> i think iheartubuntu's wife can
<nhaines> That reminds me.  Unicode broke on my server again and I need to fix it.
<iheartubuntu> darkwing... ive been reading your blog posts in google reader
<iheartubuntu> ohh yes ive seen this
<iheartubuntu> http://www.wonderly.com/
<iheartubuntu> i like it
<iheartubuntu> its clean
<DarkwingDuck> Thanks.
<DarkwingDuck> I need to write one today.
<nhaines> No more Ubuntu Bytes updates either.
<iheartubuntu> no
<iheartubuntu> the program i was using was really buggy
<iheartubuntu> TBO it was called
<iheartubuntu> it crashed on me every time i created text or adjusted the shape of a characters head
<nhaines> Inkscape?
<iheartubuntu> i do want to continue it but hand draw it all and clean it up in inkscape
<iheartubuntu> this weekend was all about installing new windows on my house. man what a difference
<iheartubuntu> now i can work on the website without freezing over or getting too hot inside :)
<iheartubuntu> i'd really like to get more into inkscape. i love it so far.
<iheartubuntu> Krita looks like another promising program i could get into
<DarkwingDuck> I only use Gimp for photos. Everything else is Inkscape
<seidos> iheartubuntu: you installed windows?  epic.
<iheartubuntu> not Windows
<iheartubuntu> windows
<iheartubuntu> :D
<seidos> that's what i said
<seidos> where did you get them?  home depot?
<iheartubuntu> yes
<seidos> did they do the measuring for you?
<iheartubuntu> no, friend has a window company
<seidos> ah
<iheartubuntu> yah he came and measured everything
<iheartubuntu> i did a square craftsman style grid along the top quarter of the windows
<seidos> that's the hardest part, i think.  making sure you get the right size
<iheartubuntu> looks nice
<iheartubuntu> i reduced the size of two windows in my living room to make room for a fireplace and built in bookshelves
<iheartubuntu> i did hand crank windows to keep the style and feel of the house
<sn9> iheartubuntu: bottom line: HTPC _is_ your solution, and trying to get around that fact serves no purpose
<iheartubuntu> sn9 and i cand do that myself basically with mythtv, boxee or the like?
<iheartubuntu> maybe i  should get away from the vga output
<iheartubuntu> i dont remember so many problems hooking up a laptop to a tv... i did it way back in 8 or 9 years ago when i was in russia and teaching my wife english with american dvds
<iheartubuntu> she learned english from "sex and the city". now its all about shoes, purses, etc... looking back i should have brought beverly hillbillies episodes instead
<DarkwingDuck> lol
<sn9> i learned english from sesame street
<DarkwingDuck> Or star trek
<sn9> still took years to pick it up after russian
<sn9> is it a small and/or old tv?
<iheartubuntu> what is your native language?
<iheartubuntu> like a 30" flatscreen
<seidos> tv's are a pain, they are usually composite video, only until recently did t.v.'s get vga/dvi/hdmi connectors
<seidos> in fact, it probably makes sense to call new t.v.'s monitors, anyway
<seidos> "monitors"
<sn9> my native language is russian
<sn9> some say i still have the accent and some say i don't
<iheartubuntu> i would have never guessed sn9. im usually good at picking up accents
<sn9> is that 30" at 16:9, or 4:3?
<iheartubuntu> we have friends who will not leave the russian districts of LA and their accents remain heavy. the friends who have moved away and spend more time speaking with native english speakers have the least accents ive noticed
<iheartubuntu> my wifes english is pretty good. she majored in linguistics, which no one has heard of here in the states
<sn9> i know people who still have the accent despite speaking only english and having forgotten how to speak russian at all
<sn9> my dad had a ph.d equivalent in linguistics
<iheartubuntu> wow... my dad lost his polish after he came to the states
<iheartubuntu> if i spend any more time with linux i will lose my only spoken language of english :)
<sn9> i though you could understand polish
<DarkwingDuck> hehehe
<iheartubuntu> i can understand some polish and some russian, but not speak well. tolka nimnoga
<iheartubuntu> i can get around moscow fine
<DarkwingDuck> I took russian in highschool
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<DarkwingDuck> That was like 11 years ago though.
<sn9> i took cantonese and latin
<DarkwingDuck> latin? I wish I had learned latin
<iheartubuntu> they had russian in HS???
<iheartubuntu> the only languages here in los angeles are spanish or french where i am
<sn9> no, they had cantonese and latin
<seidos> noam chomsky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ghoXQxdk6s&feature=related
<iheartubuntu> i took german, but had no one to speak it with
<seidos> i've heard of linguistics :)
<sn9> i took a russian class when i enrolled at Sacramento City College, though, before i transfered to City College of San Francisco
<seidos> i wish i learned spanish
<seidos> i practice it from time to time on my own...
<seidos> i'm going to take some biology and perhaps anatomy at west la college, assuming i can get a fee waiver
<sn9> my issue with spanish is that everyone speaks a mile a minute, otherwise i would have picked it up as a child
<iheartubuntu> how did pleia2 like budapest? did you fall in love with the city?
<iheartubuntu> russians speak russian a mile a minute :)
<iheartubuntu> im still watching nupogodi and have problems
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: it was lovely :)
<sn9> my copies of nu pogodi are silent 8mm
<seidos> same here, sn9 .  maybe we should try practicing someday
<sn9> original soviet retail releases, some of them
<iheartubuntu> wow
<iheartubuntu> have u been back home ever?
<sn9> i've introduced some splices over the years, though
<sn9> 8mm tends to get tangled and stepped on, ya know
<sn9> "back home" to me is san francisco
<iheartubuntu> i havent been to moscow for a few years now. im sure its much different than when i last left. massive building has been going on there the past decade
<philipballew> i just got back home. but that is sac area. SF is a intreting place to have a home. i hear the cities are growing in russia?
<seidos> wb philipballew
<sn9> the only time i was in moscow was a two-week stay while awaiting the soviet exit visas
<seidos> brrr cold
<iheartubuntu> XBMC wont install in Natty :(
<seidos> i wonder what the trick is to surviving out there.  i assume energy isn't that easy to come by, like everywhere else
<philipballew> cold is all relitive. people in so cal when i am there freak out over 50 dagrees when im here i go on a bike ride when its 50 because its a nice day
<iheartubuntu> moscow was growing fast
<seidos> i used to swim in the ocean here sans wet suit
<sn9> iheartubuntu: try mythbuntu
<seidos> can't do it for very long.  i used to also snowboard.  coldest i've been in is -18F
<iheartubuntu> a friend of ours bought an apartment in moscow region at one of the ends of the moscow metro lines for $50k and now its worth like $350k. takes over an hour to get to the center of moscow
<seidos> yeah, with population growth it makes sense that property values would go up
<seidos> hey MarkDude
<iheartubuntu> markdude has won
<MarkDude> Hey there seidos
<MarkDude> What did I win?
<iheartubuntu> -30*C for me
<seidos> hey where
<iheartubuntu> you won it all!
<sn9> apparently, gasoline is WAY cheaper in russia than in california
<seidos> and is cold all relative?
<seidos> can i go to pluto now if i'm tough enough?
<seidos> :P
<iheartubuntu> only with vodka or champagne
<philipballew> apperently it snowed at my house last week and i missed it... :(
<seidos> i have to walk 10 miles today, i am procrastinating
<philipballew> that was about 30
<iheartubuntu> 10 miles??
<philipballew> ride a bike! its faster
<iheartubuntu> seidos, you might try skipping those 10 miles. you will get there much faster
<iheartubuntu> the faster you skip the lighter you will feel too
<seidos> iheartubuntu: skipping indeed
<iheartubuntu> almost like you are flying to your destination
<seidos> philipballew: i don't have a bike and i can't build one
<seidos> i'll just skip it *stays seated*
<seidos> i don't think skipping is a good idea, i don't need to look anymore wimpy than i already do
<philipballew> i see. creigslist rideshare!
<iheartubuntu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_(gait)#Skip
<seidos> never heard of it
<seidos> what's greener, walking 10 miles, or taking the bus?
<seidos> i know which is cheaper
<iheartubuntu> skipping is not wimpy at all!
<iheartubuntu> skipping is greener!
<philipballew> its a sport in some parts of the world
<iheartubuntu> who wants to see seidos skip 10 miles, please raise their hands
 * iheartubuntu raises hand
<philipballew> Hi, i am a professional athlete and i can skip!!!
<seidos> this isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship
<iheartubuntu> do we have a second motion?
<seidos> professional athletes get paid
<philipballew> i second the motion!
<iheartubuntu> what if you becvome a professional skipper
<seidos> that would be totally awesome
<philipballew> you could pay people to watch you
<seidos> i could pay people to not watch me
<iheartubuntu> the government can watch you
<seidos> "i'll give you 5 cents if you'll just turn the other way"
<seidos> Echelon?  here?  oh no, please don't get up *BOOM*
<philipballew> the gov probably already is!
<seidos> we are the government o_o
<philipballew> in a sense
<seidos> i haven't voted in years
<seidos> in a sense
<iheartubuntu> you create a sort of kinetic movement with skipping that makes motion much easier.
<iheartubuntu> my wife and i skip everywhere
<seidos> actually i was walking around with my arms, like cross country skiing
<seidos> but that was back in SF
<iheartubuntu> whenever we go to the oktoberfest we skip all around the place. skipping is easy after large quantities of beer too
<seidos> i wouldn't do looney stuff like that around here
<seidos> some snob with a poodle might laugh, and then not pay me for my trouble
<seidos> it only seems easy after large quantities of beer
<MarkDude> p/me was skipping the other day
<MarkDude> it was fun
<iheartubuntu> skipping : to leap over lightly and nimbly
<seidos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EPg4muXrzI
<iheartubuntu> see what i mean? you feel light and get places much faster
<seidos> oh, i've skipped
<seidos> it's not like i've ever skipped before
<seidos> dualistic serious xor funny
<iheartubuntu> if you have to go to the bathroom you can even skip to the lue
<seidos> maybe i'll just walk on my toes
<seidos> or electric slide
<MarkDude> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BblV6AQsd2s
<seidos> i should probably limp
 * MarkDude just spent some time swinging also
<seidos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBMT3OMEPwk
<seidos> i <3 rise against
<MarkDude> Yep- they are cool
<seidos> nah, i take it back
<seidos> i don't even know them
<seidos> *closes youtube*
<MarkDude> lol
<seidos> ah, to be entertained by a friend
<seidos> or to entertain a friend
<seidos> instead of listening to the musings of strangers
 * seidos opens youtube again and goes to his own channel
<iheartubuntu> seidos is going to skip part of those 10 miles today :) muuuhahahaaa
<seidos> i might
<iheartubuntu> YESSS!!!!
<philipballew> i hope so
<iheartubuntu> bring a stopwatch
<iheartubuntu> time yourself walking and time yourself skipping
<iheartubuntu> you could make a skipping app for ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> feel how light you become
<seidos> i think walking is probably more efficient, i'm not in a hurry to get there
<iheartubuntu> and feel the energy fill your soul and mind, creating a positive vibration that will resonate with others around you.
<iheartubuntu> skipping is contagious, so be careful
<seidos> i would rather remain balanced
<seidos> i will be positive when Reality itself is
<seidos> not feeling the skipping
<seidos> perhaps if i were on the yellow brick road i would be
<iheartubuntu> (d@mn)
<seidos> or if i had ruby slippers
<iheartubuntu> sn9 - looks like mythtv has a browser plugin
<seidos> hasta la pasta
<iheartubuntu> are there any easy ways to watch shows on BBC or Seesaw that are located in UK?
<philipballew> ude the gogle uk search engine and google for those shows
<iheartubuntu> does anyone know what happened to the guy working for writeonglass.com who hosted an ubuntu get together in socal 6+ months ago?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-19
<grantbow> Ubuntu Hour in SF!
<rww> oh damn, i completely forgot about that
<rww> pleia2: I'm not going to SF today! >.> >.>
<pleia2> doh :)
<broder> oh, huh
<broder> unfortunately i'm still stuck on the peninsula
<pleia2> there is one in mt view tomorrow
<broder> yes, but i'm heading back to sf early tomorrow :-P
<pleia2> ah :)
<broder> i just haven't managed to escape work yet today
<MarkDude> The FB page for the Team has 29 Weekly Actives- that is what the channel has in people at times
<pleia2> most of the people who come to this hour aren't on irc
<rww> I prefer actual talking to facebook poking or whatever it is you newfangled people do on it.
<grantbow> you use facebook now?
<rww> no
<rww> and by actual talking I mean IRC
<grantbow> ah, lol
<MarkDude> rww- are youlike 50? Are you going to start telling these kids to get off your lawn?
<MarkDude> :)
<rww> MarkDude: my favorite Internet protocols is IRC. I must be old :(
<rww> s/s is/ is/
<MarkDude> grantbow, is old- aand he is on FB
<MarkDude> lol
<MarkDude> He is my age btw
<rww> my dad's on facebook, so...
<MarkDude> My Grandma is too- and she likes to post pics of her cats
<MarkDude> and baseball games
<pleia2> I like to post pictures of my cats
<MarkDude> And the garden
 * grantbow shakes head
<MarkDude> pleia2, by tomorrow I will have a picture of a cross-eyed cat as my profile on FB
<MarkDude> Finally got close to the pic of the cat with extra cross eyes
<MarkDude> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2424094/IMG_1568.JPG
<grantbow> MarkDude, schools ends at Mission Beacon on Friday. Pictures?
<grantbow> s/schools/school/
<MarkDude> We have
<MarkDude> I am making post on it
<MarkDude> We have pics at other schools
<MarkDude> TedXCrapyard is tomorrow
<MarkDude> And Friday, I am busy
<MarkDude> dressing up as a zombie
<MarkDude> Dont ask- long story
<nhaines> akk: welcome back!
<akk> hyai nhaines
<jyo> pleia2: For some reason, irssi's autosendcmd is choking on the backslash in my password?
<pleia2> jyo: ah, yeah it may not be able to escape it properly :\
<jyo> pleia: Finally worked with four backslashes. /network shows my password with two but it's sent with one. Whatever.
<seidos> i can't believe a marathon is ~23 miles
<jmarsden> seidos: That would be because it is actually 26 miles and 385 yards.
<rww> lol
<jmarsden> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon
<seidos> took you long enough
<seidos> it probably would be so terrible with shoes other than vans
<seidos> *wouldn't
<nhaines> I was happy because I bought pineapple juice but then sad because I realized I'm out of coconut rum.
<nhaines> But pineapple juice is delicious anyway.
<jmarsden> nhaines: Or, you could view this as an excuse to go buy some more rum :)
<rww> Or, you could view this as an excuse to dress as Captain Sparrow and dance around shouting about the rum being gone
<pleia2> is anyone from SF going to the mt view ubuntu hour tonight?
 * pleia2 needs to find a way home, probably will end up on caltrain but it takes foreeeeever
<pleia2> the bf forgot to tell me he won't be in the office this evening, doh
<pleia2> he's usually my ride home :)
 * MarkDude is headed to TEDxCrapyard
<MarkDude> sry
<iheartubuntu> Would anyone happen to know the Lake Forest Ubuntu Hour wiki page for tonights Ubuntu Hour? I cant seem to locate it. There are future Lake Forest events, but not for tonight.
<iheartubuntu> if not maybe i can just link up with nhaines post in the forum for the details
<iheartubuntu> actually those Lake Forest UH events appear to be past events
<iheartubuntu> ok, i created one http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/990/detail/
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyRelease edited
<pleia2> jtatum: packed up your cds \o/
<jtatum> cool
<rww> iheartubuntu: I thought today's UH was Mt View, not Lake Forest
<rww> maybe it's both. iono, i don't pay attention.
<iheartubuntu> we have both today
<iheartubuntu> i think i put silicon valley for the mountain view one
<iheartubuntu> in hopes people in the area will click the link and then find the location
<iheartubuntu> it really is awesome we have so many ubuntu hours popping up around california. i bet we have more than some countries.
<rww> quality not quantity, though ;P
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: the Ubuntu Hour Lake Forest meetings are independant and therefore do not use the LoCo Directory.  The entry on the wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour page is the only place it should be located on the Ubuntu wiki.
<iheartubuntu> what does that mean, its independent
<iheartubuntu> can you use the name "ubuntu" as part of "ubuntu hour" then if its independent?
<pleia2> of course
<nhaines> Of course.
<iheartubuntu> its separate of the california team?
<rww> I can go sit in a cafe tomorrow for a day and decide it's Ubuntu Day.
<nhaines> Correct.
<pleia2> not everyone has to use all the team resources for their events, they are just available if the organizer chooses to use them
<pleia2> and anyone can plan an event :)
<nhaines> And Ubuntu Hour is meant for just that purpose.  :)
 * pleia2 nods
<iheartubuntu> wouldnt you get more interested people if it was part of the loco
<nhaines> I find it doubtful.
<nhaines> It's a small local event.  I promote it using Planet Ubuntu and at the moment just OCLUG mailing list.
<nhaines> I should actually get a page up on my website about it, maybe.
<iheartubuntu> would you like me to remove the listing on ubuntu hour  events? or at least remove the loco team as part of the event
<nhaines> I'd rather not have it listed.  The LoCo Directory is a terrible resouce in a lot of ways (not very discoverable, for instance) and I don't want to have it up there if it won't be an actively maintained location for information about UHLF.
<iheartubuntu> ok, i will remove it. would you like me to post it on the twitter feeds anymore?
<nhaines> I didn't know it was still being mentioned on the Twitter feeds.
<nhaines> That's up to the LoCo to decide.  I always felt promoting California events was useful, but others vehemently disagreed.
<pleia2> it hasn't in a while, we update twitter/identica/facebook based on loco directory
<pleia2> (even then it's hard to remember everything :))
<pleia2> same with team reports
<pleia2> of course everyone is welcome to update team reports themselves
<rww> am glad to see facebook's being updated these days
<iheartubuntu> i can always post the event and have the link go to your livejournal article
<pleia2> rww: heh, it's easier now that posterous x-posts identica/twitter/facebook
<nhaines> I know grantbow argued strongly that advertising Ubuntu Hours was a misuse of LoCo resources for personal gain.
<nhaines> pleia2: Yeah, if not for Gwibber I'd never use any of it.  :)
<pleia2> it doesn't create an "event" for it in fb, but that was a pain anyway since events in facebook have separate rsvp and stuff
<iheartubuntu> what is the personal gain?
<pleia2> who knows
<iheartubuntu> people meeting to talk ubuntu/linux/baseball/giants/dodgerssuck/etc
<iheartubuntu> personal gain is friendship!
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: I think the argument was that UHs were LUGs and therefore shouldn't be promoted.
<rww> iheartubuntu: some Ubuntu Hours are similar to some LUGs, so there was perhaps a feeling that one being promoted through the team but not the other is bad. but I can't speak for grantbow obviously
<rww> s/bad/unfair/
<iheartubuntu> if a lug is not about ubuntu first i could understand
<iheartubuntu> his position
<rww> if you really care, I imagine it's somewhere in the meeting logs somewhere, but it's not a conversation that's come up recently afaik
<nhaines> The hope for UHLF was that others would see it and be inspired to start their own locally, since we'd been receiving a lot of requests for Ubuntu user groups and local meetings.
<nhaines> UH seemed like a much healthier way to go about this.  And I think I achieved my goal, which is nice.  OCLUG leadership love the concept and the California LoCo is kind enough to supply CDs when they're available.
<nhaines> Plus, UH was a really new idea back then too.
<pleia2> always nice to see the loco and the lugs working well together
<rww> indeed
<nhaines> It was nice to present Ubuntu 11.04 at OCLUG a week before its release and answer claims of "You're forcing me to use Unity and taking away my freedom" with "If you want GNOME panels, you know where to find it."
<pleia2> 11.10 should be interesting
<nhaines> I don't know if anyone from OCLUG switched over yet (we haven't met again since) but everyone thanked me for showing them Unity and how it worked, even if they didn't want to use it.
<rww> pleia2: so glad they decided to not make huge major changes this cycle. the lack of constant complaining in #ubuntu+1 will be a nice change.
<nhaines> rww: didn't you read doctormo's blog?  Removing Pitivi is the end of civiliation.
<rww> i have never even run pitivi so i think i am not the intended audience for that program
<nhaines> I ran it once.  It crashed.
<pleia2> rww: gnome3 will hit 11.10, which means no more classic :\
<nhaines> OpenShot lets me get a lot further along before it crashes.  :)
<pleia2> you either get unity or gnome shell, both of which are foreign
<rww> pleia2: not implementing GNOME 3 fallback to GNOME panel?
<pleia2> rww: maybe? but I wouldn't depend upon it, and it won't be on the cd
<nhaines> pleia2: there'll still be GNOME fallback mode, I imagine.
<rww> nhaines: the PPA doesn't have it, so who knows really
<rww> pleia2: fun
<nhaines> rww: oh, I thought it did.  Well, at least there'll be Unity 2D.
<pleia2> they are doing a really nice job with unity 2d, so at least it'll just be a UI shock rather than "my graphics card hates the new interface" fail
<nhaines> Everyone at University of Redlands seemed excited to see Unity in action.
<pleia2> it is pretty slick
<pleia2> w00t, I get the car today \o/
<nhaines> yay!
<nhaines> yay, lunchtime.
<iheartubuntu> with ubuntu changing at a quick pace, do any of you feel it could be a detriment? possibly turn people away?
<nhaines> Not after 7 years.
<nhaines> As I mentioned in my last talk, every new release is  fun but LTS is always available if that's too quick.
<iheartubuntu> there wasnt a whole lot of change from the early days until 11.04 which saw some radical changes
<iheartubuntu> my ladybug makes it into the volleybrawl game :) http://volleybrawl.me/brawlers/view/49
<nhaines> There have been major changes.
<pleia2> maybe you just weren't paying attention as closely? I'd call the move from gimp to f-spot/shotwell pretty major, move to grub, move to ext4...
<pleia2> er, grub2
<pleia2> that's all since 9.10
<iheartubuntu> im talking about the gui
<iheartubuntu> even XP to Win7 wasnt all that major
<pleia2> well yes, this is the first major change to the UI aside from theming
<nhaines> If you don't think that swapping out the default apps is major, well... I disagree. :)
<pleia2> but it would have happened with a release later Gnome Shell if not Unity
<iheartubuntu> nhaines. its major. i meant the gui
<pleia2> KDE went through this with KDE3 > KDE4, and are again with expanded use of their plasa widgets
<pleia2> it's not Ubuntu, it's software, things change :)
<pleia2> OS9 to OSX...
<nhaines> In that case, I don't think Ubuntu is changing as quickly as other OSes.
<iheartubuntu> i wish ubuntu would focus more on making everything tight and perfect first. boot up time seems to have taken a back seat
<iheartubuntu> on upgrades to natty i notice a slowdown on boot up time and on fresh installs, no difference in bootup times
<pleia2> there is no such thing as perfect, the LTS gets the closest so I'd use that if you were really concerned about a lot of changes
<pleia2> and bootup time today is still significantly better than pre-upstart :)
<nhaines> The devs working on the GUI have nothing to do with boot times.
<MarkDude> At TEdx now
<MarkDude> take 2
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-20
<kdub> wat up channel
<pleia2> oh yeah, our philipballew_ is now an ubuntu member :)
<MarkDude> Good deal
<philipballew> what up kdub!
<MarkDude> philipballew, did they teach you the secret handshake?
<philipballew> MarkDude yes, it's kinda painful...BIT SO WORTH IT!
<MarkDude> lol
<newboon2Age> Drew here, @ Ubuntu Hour: Mountain View;  aaditya akk pleia2 jtatum jledbetter crashsystems crashsystems1 outofjungle nigelb chaser broder markdude jmarsden jiboumans jamalta
<MarkDude> Hey there newboon2Age
<MarkDude> You going to Maker Faire this weekend? I have 1 extra ticket
<newboon2Age> i would love to markdude. do we have s
<newboon2Age> a table?
<MarkDude> No table
<jledbetter> newboon2Age, jtatum should be there any second now
<MarkDude> I have tickets as well as a few 50% off cards
<MarkDude> Caltrain is kinda near I think
<newboon2Age> yes markdude i think you are right
<newboon2Age> we'll have to adjust things because there is an event on yhe second floor where we'd normally been meeting
<akk> Two months in a row where the 3rd floor is really busy. Wonder if they're less busy on some other day of the week?
<newboon2Age> well still come akk - we will adjust
<akk> can't make it this week, just got home from the pii conference (which was great)
<newboon2Age> we'll miss ya akk
<pleia2> ubuntu hour \o/
<akk> yay pleia2
<newboon2Age> pleia2, Michelle and Nagappan joined jtatum and i.  Micichelle is showing off a few of her many tek toys
<newboon2Age> michelle just put 10.04 (from my pen drive) and is running Xournal x61T Thinkpad
<akk> Nice!
<philipballew_> can somebody try to fill the holes in my computer problem. my usb wi fi card wont work on my 10.04 desktop?
<nhaines> philipballew_: congratulations!  \o/
<philipballew_> ^ Thanks!!!
<jamalta> what day are you all going to maker faire?
<pleia2> not sure who all is going besides MarkDude
<jamalta> Ah, alright :)
 * MarkDude is 
<MarkDude> with like 8 people
<MarkDude> Will tell folks about it- that is of course if the Rapture does not happen at 6pm local time
<pleia2> MarkDude: jamalta asked which day you are going :)
<MarkDude> My bad- Saturday
<MarkDude> Rapture day
 * pleia2 plans to be on the beach for it
<MarkDude> If I dont see you before then pleia2 - it was nice knowing you ;)
<MarkDude> philipballew, I will be going Saturday
<pleia2> MarkDude: haha, same!
<MarkDude> You still have time to check for things you have not done yet
<MarkDude> make your own todo-list is my suggestion to everyone
 * broder might be there
<pleia2> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california now has pictures from our flickr feed :)
<pleia2> and reminder: if anyone wants to upload to our flickr feed, let me know
<pleia2> (I can give you access, or you can email me your photos, or whatever)
<MarkDude> I will - later tho
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-21
<nhaines> I'm heading to the Rathskeller in Huntington Beach to drink German beer!  \o/
<pleia2> nhaines: have fun :)
<nhaines> pleia2: "Im Himmel gibt's kein Bier / Drum trinken wir es hier!"
<pleia2> nice :)
<nhaines> The song continues (but in German): "And when we're no longer here / The others will drink all our beer!"
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: btw, no amount of qualifiers will make your blog post not sound like "quit yur whining" :)
<pleia2> (being one of the others)++
<pleia2> I'm spending the weekend with my boyfriend's jewish family :)
<pleia2> no ascension for us
<akk> Is DarkwingDuck not on planet.ubuntu-california.org ?
<DarkwingDuck> pleia2: Yeah, I know...
<DarkwingDuck> I think paultag said it best though.... "Nice suck up to canonical blog post the day before your interview"
<DarkwingDuck> akk: I think I changed my blig URL since then. I'm now at wonderly.com and not darkwingduck.org
<akk> I googled and found it.
<DarkwingDuck> Yay
<akk> heh @ paultag
<pleia2> haha, paultag++
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: you know, we do have the ability to update planet feeds :P
<DarkwingDuck> Yeah, I'm more dedicated to getting ready for the second interview at the moment.
<DarkwingDuck> :P
<akk> Problem I have with the blog post is that so many communities make it really hard to do more than spot problems (and blog workarounds or put them in blog comments).
<pleia2> akk: that's what I said in my comment
<akk> That "how to post a patch so it might even get considered" thing I blogged earlier this week was maybe my longest blog entry ever. And it was as condensed as I could make it.
<pleia2> yeah, I was actually thinking of your debdiff blog post when I wrote my comment
<pleia2> (among other things)
<pleia2> saying "just make a debdiff!" without giving any documentation borders on insulting
<pleia2> (and makes me feel like a moron, why can't I figure out how to make one? clearly it's easy if they are saying just do it...)
<akk> It took me maybe 4x as long to make the bzr diff as it did to install the source, track down why the program was crashing, find a fix and make the initial diff.
<akk> Maybe only 2x as long if you count the time I took going back realizing I could make a cleaner fix.
<akk> Of course, most bugs aren't nearly that easy to fix (alas!)
<pleia2> yeah, there is always that too
<broder> pleia2: we're trying to fix that!
<broder> (for ubuntu at least)
<broder> the long-term goal is that you just need to mark an attachment as a patch in LP, and the normal review process will kick in
<pleia2> broder: this has been a long term goal for a couple of years
<akk> broder: That would be SO much better.
<broder> yeah, but i think it's starting to approach feasible
<pleia2> that's good to hear :)
<broder> we're going to point patch pilots at operation cleansweep this cycle
<broder> since the sponsorship queue is at the point that it's usually short enough that patch pilots run out of work
<pleia2> (btw, this isn't all just me being the spotter, I am actively working with some bug and docs people to improve their contributor docs to help with this :P)
<broder> but it'll still take time, since there are just so many marked-as-patches attachments in lp right now
<broder> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-review-sponsorship-process and http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/community-o-review-sponsorship-process/ are the relevant links
<broder> err, most recently relevant links
<pleia2> yeah, that session conflicted with another so I had to read those afterwards
<pleia2> (always too much happening at uds! :))
<akk> The SRU process is also crazy.
<broder> friday this cycle was really bad. i don't remember being so thoroughly overbooked last cycle
<akk> That's even harder than making a bzr patch/debdiff.
<pleia2> friday was actually my light day, thursday was gruesome
<akk> And not well documented.
<wes_> hey guys
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: aha, gonna work for Canonical? ;)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-22
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: trying to
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: :)
<rww> nigelb: what are you doing here, you're on the wrong continent!
<nigelb> rww: haha, I'm just hanging out :)
<rww> #ubuntu-us-ca is the cool place to be.
<jmarsden> So, will being here reduce my air conditioning bill? :)
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: Aye, i have a second interview for the position this week sometime... As soon as Jono lets me know when.
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: what's the position? QA community person?
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: Yes.
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: So, Jono liked me for round one... Let's see how round two goes.
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: Best of luck! :)
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: thanks!
<DarkwingDuck> Jobs are hard to find. :)
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: and paultag++ btw
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: but I thought CA was the happening place for jobs with the amount of tech companies there.
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: Yes, but instead of going to university I joined the Military
<DarkwingDuck> And I'm either over qualified for what they are looking for or, I don't have a degree
<DarkwingDuck> 2000 resumes later Jono calls me LOL
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: bah :/
<nigelb> heh
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: Yeah, I know. You'd figure that 7 years of Military would count for something LOL
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: did you send out resumes for developer positions?
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: I'm a Web Dev
 * nigelb ^5 DarkwingDuck
 * nigelb is web dev too
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: Dont do much else other then that are tech write
<DarkwingDuck> I'm a bit old school.
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: PHP, Ruby or Python?
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: PHP, Perl and the other standard
<nigelb> Perl. /me bows in respect
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<DarkwingDuck> I learned Perl in 1998
<DarkwingDuck> Been doing webdev since 1996
<DarkwingDuck> I'm learning Python though.
<DarkwingDuck> As a replacement for Perl... it's better in some ways IMO
<nigelb> Python has nifty frameworks
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: If you've got the time you should help us out with the community web projects like loco directory.  They're all django
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: I'll look at that. right now I'm in the process of revamping kubuntu.org
<nigelb> :)
<nigelb> mostly a design revamp?
<DarkwingDuck> Yup.
<DarkwingDuck> building a better one.
<DarkwingDuck> I'm also working on my graphic design again... speaking of... I need to publish these.
<nigelb> :)
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: http://people.ubuntu.com/~david.wonderly/Graphics/Oneiric/
<nigelb> DarkwingDuck: NICE!
<DarkwingDuck> I need to get these to the design team still.
<DarkwingDuck> I'm building some more at different sizes for peoples blogs and such
<nigelb> great!
<nigelb> I generally suck at design
<DarkwingDuck> nigelb: I'm getting better at it
<nigelb> :)
<DarkwingDuck> Yay! Got my CDs
<scott-ian> For anyone who's intrested, I have created a launchpad team for those who use Gnome 3 in Ubuntu.  https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-users
<philipballew> would anyone know a good irc channel for ubuntu sound issues?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-05-14
<MarkDude> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkTerranova
 * MarkDude added his Fedora invovlement at the bottom of his Ubuntu page
<MarkDude> assuming this is cool
<philipballew> I dont see how there would be anything wrong with it
<MarkDude> I was also going to put, feel free to ask me to speak at FOSS events, as long as there is no conflict of interest, like OSCON or sumthin
<MarkDude> I just beleive in The Open Source Way- TOSW
<DonkeyHotei> free software ftw
 * philipballew feels compelled by MarkDude and purges proprietary drivers, skype and flash
<MarkDude> I lso think that I gave those yahoo talks linked there, after I had switched to the dark side of the Force :D
<MarkDude> I say heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal, these evils
<MarkDude> heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal your proprietary blobs
<MarkDude> HAve you ever seen my southern preacher video?
<philipballew> thats one reason why I use inter graphics
 * philipballew has not seen MarkDude 's south preaching video
 * MarkDude looks
 * philipballew waits
<MarkDude> so much of my media is spread over the internets
<philipballew> so much of my media is spread accross the 3 computers I own.
<MarkDude> Stupid Windows deciding it wants all the memory
<bkerensa> =o
<philipballew> gui's are really overrater
<MarkDude> Well I have videos of me and recordings of my talks in various places
<MarkDude> I need to link them on my vanity site
 * philipballew contemplates uninstalling X
<philipballew> *overrated
<MarkDude> And get going markterranova.com
 * bkerensa buzzes off to find thai or sushi and some local beer
<MarkDude> due to the gracious bkerensa
<MarkDude> Have fun bkerensa . Great seeing you
<scientes> philipballew, how about xmonad or awesome wm?
<philipballew> i had wayland running here for a little bit.
<philipballew> not recommend for daily production use
<scientes> philipballew, i think you are understating that
<philipballew> scientes, what am I understanding?
<scientes> understa*t*ing
<philipballew> scientes, ah, my bad.
<philipballew> but scientes yet im using ubuntu, many say its not useable
<philipballew> but soon x will die
<scientes> wayland is getting better, but it is FAR from usable right now
<scientes> and X will not die
<philipballew> very true
<scientes> it will just cease to interface with hardware
<scientes> and be routed through XWayland
<philipballew> well in a scene isnt that death? as soon any need for x will vanish
<DonkeyHotei> common sense is not usable
<philipballew> qt and gtk can write wayland stuff into ther codebase
<philipballew> and thinks of that sort
<scientes> yes the large toolkits will be ported
<scientes> but there is plenty that isn't written to the toolkits and/or has x11 calls
<philipballew> its true!
<scientes> i doubt you will see firefox running natively under wayland this year
<philipballew> i doubt it as well
<pleia2> hm, what was lunch at UDS on thursday?
<jtatum> it was.. mexican i think
<pleia2> that was wednesday
<pleia2> (and monday night, lots of mexican!)
<pleia2> actually there was some friday night too...
<scientes> hmm i gothry but it was tasty :)
<scientes> *forget
<scientes> there was a tasty cupcake
<scientes> there was borsch
<DonkeyHotei> it apparently had no beets in it, though
<scientes> DonkeyHotei, yes it wasn't a typical borsch...
<pleia2> scientes: ah yes! I had the beef stroganoff
<pleia2> thanks :)
<scientes> pleia2, are you obsessively blogging this like you did the rest of the conference?
<scientes> :P
<pleia2> hah, no, I do food tracking all the time (have very bad heartburn, working with a nutritionist)
<akk> borscht with no beets?
<DonkeyHotei> akk: you were there
<akk> No, I unfortunately missed thursday and friday.
<DonkeyHotei> ah
<jyo> We had Shepherd's Pie on... Friday?
<DonkeyHotei> it's all a blur now
<pleia2> jyo: yeah
<philipballew> pleia2, as you fly a lot, do you have any recommendations on good websites to buy tickets from?
<pleia2> the cheapest one :)
<pleia2> it varies by flight, I usually check a comparison site like kayak.com then check the airline site itself for the exact same flight and compare prices with fees
<philipballew> alright, that seems good. Gotta buy tickets to Hew Hampshire today
<DonkeyHotei> if you're in any frequent flyer program, check its website first
<pleia2> Manchester can be cheap sometimes, but I'd also look into Logan + shuttle to NH prices
<DonkeyHotei> ditto if you know anyone in one with transferable benefits
<philipballew> thats a good idea. Are some days cheaper then others to fly from?
<philipballew> and I assume sfo is the cheapest these days?
<pleia2> most of the comparison charts will show you fares for multiple days, it really depends on locations, times and holidays
<scientes> oakland doesn't go to many places
<pleia2> I check OAK, SFO and SJC
<pleia2> I'll fly out of any of them depending on price
<philipballew> yeah, im gonna check sfo, oak, san jose, sac and reno
<scientes> reno!
<DonkeyHotei> sfo is typically cheaper than oak or sjc
<scientes> reno is a TINY airport
<DonkeyHotei> occasionally smf is lower though
<scientes> I landed there in a cesna, and there wasn't much
<philipballew> reno is the only place where you can play slots as you go through the tsa line
<philipballew> thanks pleia2 found some good ones for 500 even
<philipballew> round trip
<pleia2> great :)
<philipballew> New England is a great area.
<MarkDude> kayak.com
<MarkDude> comapres a few travel sites
<MarkDude> Oh, hes gone
<pleia2> s'ok, I mentioned kayak :)
<MarkDude> Of course you did, I missed that. I should not have doubted :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-05-15
<philipballew> If I need to upgrade from lucid to precise but my dnysns package i use to stay connected "noip2" was taken out of the ubuntu repos, will I loose connection to my server?
<DonkeyHotei> use a different one
<DonkeyHotei> quite a few support noip
 * philipballew looks for another free one.
<philipballew> apt-cache search should do the trick
<philipballew> then again. sooner or later att is going to get mad that i have an email server running there
<DonkeyHotei> in sd?
<philipballew> its currently stashed in Auburn. Me and a friend have a cluster together
<philipballew> att up here are really annoying
<DonkeyHotei> get cal.net instead
<philipballew> never herd of it
<philipballew> might be better
<DonkeyHotei> they're a woodland-based reseller of sonic.net's fusion service, iirc
<philipballew> hum. seems good.
<DonkeyHotei> also look into "sacramento fusion"
 * philipballew looks inti these
<akk> We're trying out a colo from prgmr.com -- seems pretty good so far.
<akk> er, not a colo, a virtual host
<DonkeyHotei> prgmr has both
<DonkeyHotei> i think
<akk> I think that's right -- the colos are here in silicon valley, I think, the vhosts are in Merced or Tracy or somewhere like that.
<DonkeyHotei> wow, he's REALLY branched out
<scientes> I have been trying to generate a WoT of the debian-maintainers.gpg
<scientes> its kinda resousive
<akk> Any ppa packaging experts around? I've made a deb/dsc package but I'm having trouble finding docs on how to publish it to a PPA.
<akk> Launchpad says to use dput <ppa-name> <source.changes> but it doesn't explain what <source.changes> should be.
<scientes> akk, you could try open build service
<akk> What's that?
<scientes> something similar to PPAs
 * scientes has never used it
<akk> Why would I want to use that rather than a PPA?
<philipballew> ppa's are more distributable
<scientes> blewwwwwww
<scientes> ppa's are only against ubuntu
<philipballew> everyone from akk to your linux noob can install a ppa
<scientes> OBS is against rhel, fedora, suse, debian, and ubuntu
<akk> This is just a python script, and I'm trying to figure out how to make it easy for people to install it.
<akk> It's not like it actually needs to be built.
<scientes> oh, then just tarball it up
<philipballew> akk, did you already push it via bzr?
<akk> It's not in bzr, it's on github.
<akk> Does something have to have a bzr mirror of the real repository to be packaged as a PPA?
<philipballew> ah
<akk> This particular package might actually have a bzr mirror, but I have several other scripts that definitely don't.
<akk> I'm finding it hard to coordinate google code and github mirrors already, so I hate to add a third if I don't absolutely have to.
<philipballew> I Ive herd this link has helped a few http://askubuntu.com/questions/28562/how-do-i-create-a-ppa-for-a-working-program
<akk> "Use dput to upload these files to Launchpad" -- I wonder what "these files" means?
<philipballew> sometimes people dont realize they need to be as clear as possible when answering questions
<philipballew> Launchpad has a irc channel I think
<philipballew> iirc they do
<akk> If it matters, I used python-stdeb to create the package, not debuild directly.
<akk> I got fired up at UDS because it sounded like they were trying to make the packaging/uploading process easier for developers
<akk> but I'm not really finding the docs any easier to follow than they were a year or two ago.
<philipballew> maybe their making them easier here in the Q cycle
<akk> They did say in the Q cycle there's supposed to be an app (pkgme, maybe?) that does it all with one command.
<philipballew> id like that
<akk> Maybe the thing to do is wait another six months before trying to package anything. :/
<philipballew> id ask on #launchpad
<philipballew> they would know there for sure, but thats just my two cents
<akk> #launchpad has in the topic: for ubuntu packaging help join #ubuntu-packaging, so I'll try that.
<philipballew> hum, seems even better. There are so many channels with ubuntu, its crazy
<akk> yeah
<akk> but that's better than one big channel (*cough* #ubuntu *cough*) where stuff flies by too fast for anyone to answer.
<philipballew> there are better channels for help anyway then there, unless you are really knew to ubuntu
<akk> What channels are good for help?
<philipballew> #ubuntu-beginners #ubuntu-1 will be where any help for a dev release is. #ubuntu-motu has people who can help with packaging as its for people who are ubuntu maintainers. I usually ask askubuntu if noone answeres on irc within a hour
<philipballew> sometimes on an evening like that maybe not everyone is around
<philipballew> I have to go run a few errands now.
<philipballew> take care
<akk> thx, have fun!
<DonkeyHotei> akk: the .changes file is generated by dpkg-buildpackage
<akk> Oh! Cool, it did generate a .changes file in deb_dist/
<DonkeyHotei> sorry i was afk right when you needed that
<akk> Oh, but the .changes it made isn't signed ... maybe I need to run stdeb with different arguments somehow to get it to sign it.
<scientes> how can i get vdpau video accelration with radeon driver, in mesa i've ehard
<scientes> with 3d shaders (not UVD)
<scientes> **vaapi
<DonkeyHotei> scientes: http://askubuntu.com/questions/87395/how-can-i-enable-hardware-acceleration-for-an-ati-radeon-hd
<scientes> DonkeyHotei, thats the non-free driver
<scientes> i don't want that
<scientes> mesa has it for radeon using 3d shaders
<scientes> but thanks for trying
<DonkeyHotei> according to the xorg website, radeon does not have it; only fglrx
<DonkeyHotei> if i were forced to choose between nonfree ati drivers and nonfree nvidia drivers, i'd choose nvidia
<bkerensa> philipballew: how is the crystal geyser supply :)
<philipballew> got 15 more!
<philipballew> had one for lunch and one for dinner
<philipballew> bkerensa, it was the best idea for me to take them
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> philipballew: drinking pisco was the worst idea I had
<bkerensa> >.<
<bkerensa> I ended up waking up at 1:30pm on Sunday
<philipballew> what did that do?
<philipballew> wow... thats a long sleep
<bkerensa> luckily the hotels restaurant made me an amazing lunch even though they had technically closed
<philipballew> oh wow. I had an egg roll I found in a freezer
<philipballew> bkerensa, lives the high life
<bkerensa> philipballew: hardly :P
<bkerensa> philipballew: I totally thought you were going to leave your charger
<philipballew> I was going to, untill I realized I forgot my train ticket and came back into the room and you alerted m to it
<MarkDude> grantbow, pingy
<philipballew> bkerensa, you around?
<bkerensa> philipballew: yeah?
<philipballew> Question. in the next few days can you write a recommendation for the membership board on my wiki?
<bkerensa> philipballew: sure can its /phillipballew ?
<philipballew> yeah bkerensa https://wiki.ubuntu.com/philipballew
<bkerensa> kk
<jyo> akk: IIRC, the prmgr vhosts are in Fremont.
<pleia2> Corey: you about?
<pleia2> Corey: if you're coming from work, wanna meet up along the way to balug again?
<greg-g> btw, less than 50 bugs until LP hits 1,000,000
<scientes> greg-g, ooo GETTT
<greg-g> :)
<scientes> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/999955
<scientes> thats where we are
<greg-g> scientes: you can see it here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/
<scientes> oh thats easier than just plugging numbers in
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> thought that's what you were doing
<scientes> greg-g, ping me when we are like 10 to go, ok
<greg-g> hah, ok, maybe, I'm tryinig to be a little productive, too ;)
<greg-g> we're at 999959
<greg-g> slower than I thought
<scientes> greg-g, yes i noticed
<greg-g> from #ubuntu-bugs:
<greg-g> 17:59 <      Pici> bug 100000
<greg-g> 17:59 <     ubot2> Launchpad bug 100000 in launchpad "There are still too many bug reports" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/100000
<greg-g> 17:59 <      Pici> bug 1000
<greg-g> 17:59 <     ubot2> Launchpad bug 1000 in null "There are too many bug reports in Malone" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000
<DonkeyHotei> https://bugs.launchpad.net/sven/+bug/999000
<DonkeyHotei> this is the newest bug to date: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/999962
<greg-g> at *64 now
<scientes> greg-g, get back to work!
<greg-g> :(
<scientes> no doing what i asked you to do :)
<DonkeyHotei> no, still at 62
<DonkeyHotei> 63 is a 404
<DonkeyHotei> so is 64
<greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ says *64 bugs reported
<greg-g> weird
<DonkeyHotei> maybe two got unreported at some point
<bkerensa> pleia2: do you think Ubuntu CA might want a booth possibly at PuppetConf? http://puppetconf.com/
<DonkeyHotei> where will that be?
<bkerensa> Mission Bay Conference Center in San Francisco
<DonkeyHotei> ahh
<DonkeyHotei> soon-ish?
<bkerensa> September
<bkerensa> However I would have to do the Introduction with whomever would run the booth beforehand
<pleia2> bkerensa: yes
<pleia2> and I can run the booth
<bkerensa> pleia2: ok just cc'ed you to their Community Manager for the intro
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> he is a nice guy
<bkerensa> :)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> will inspire me to track puppet development that will land in 12.10 more closely ;)
<pleia2> and actually pay attention to puppet-play-nice-with-juju stuff
<bkerensa> =o
<bkerensa> pleia2: where is the group photo usually posted from UDS?
<pleia2> the photographer's website, eventually
 * pleia2 digs up
<pleia2> http://www.pixoulphotography.com/
<pleia2> once it's posted there everyone passes it around pretty quick on the social networking sites
<bkerensa> ahh
<bkerensa> :D
<Corey> pleia2: Sure!
<Corey> pleia2: What time?
<pleia2> Corey: 6:15 at the dude with the flag statute?
<pleia2> -t
<pleia2> (was it a flag? I forget, same place as last time)
<Corey> Sure!
<pleia2> k, see you then :)
<jyo> I presume there is some ancient Brasero bug(s) that causes it to err out when finalizing the disk.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-05-16
<scientes> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba4/+bug/999995
<scientes> getting close
<scientes> greg-g,
<scientes> and I still havn't come with a good idea for bug 1,000,000
<scientes> ugggh, unity-2d is slow
<scientes> http://www.pixoulphotography.com/2012/01/22/fotoshop-by-adobe/
<pleia2> it is done
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1000000
<DonkeyHotei> up to 1000006 now
<jyo> pleia2: Yay, you updated the origami CD sleeves for 12.04 back in January. :D
<Corey> pleia2: Heading down in ~2.
<pleia2> jyo: mpaoli has some more updates that have fold lines!
<scientes> pleia2, fold lines are essential for those that unlike us are not gurus of origami :)
<scientes> http://jonathancarter.org/2012/05/16/launchpad-net-bug-1-000-000/
<jyo> jtatum: Magic 8-Ball on Red Rock Thursday? Outlook good?
<philipballew> Staying the week in Napa, I have gotten more comments about my laptop saying "wow, thats a lot of stickers devoted to a restaurant"
<philipballew> Maybe I need to go to this restaurant here and hand out CD's
<philipballew> Dennys should really not give free refills on coffee
<philipballew> its like they never want me to leave
<philipballew> pleia2, I see I can barrow your 12.04 pdf, but Am I free to modify it as well?
 * philipballew would hate to do something wrong and get his butt sued by pleia2 
<pleia2> philipballew: yep, the only things you're required to do with cc-by-sa is give me attribution (you don't have to, it's ok) and release your version under a similar license (please do this)
<pleia2> remixes, selling it, all is fine
<philipballew> alright, Im just adding a few things to a talk im giving in Davis. I can just keep the cc-sa link at the bottom and put Liz is awesome below it
<pleia2> haha
<philipballew> "this pamphlet has been made by pleia2, if you liked this handout and talk consider donating money to pleia2@paypal.com"
<pleia2> *gmail.com
<pleia2> ;)
<philipballew> "Donations start at $50 dollars"
<pleia2> but actually, I don't think I have a paypal account there
<philipballew> I dont either. I have managed a paypal accound for donation purposes in the past, but I never really liked them.
<MarkDude> <sigh> Fedora is still arguing over names. Like the time could not be spent, making a better installer. Or making it more useful.
<MarkDude> One of the most common things I heard at UDS- WHY are they spending sooooo much time on this?
<MarkDude> idk.
<pleia2> bikeshed.org
<philipballew> Damn straight!
<pleia2> it would happen in any community
<philipballew> it has nothing to do with computers as well. Just the way humans work probably
<philipballew> you see it with unity.
<philipballew> People will always want to tell people how they think something should be done pleia2
<MarkDude> Yep. They now want to limit naming to themes.
 * MarkDude is suggesting the theme is *hotdogs* 
<philipballew> I still have yet to get Ubuntu changed to Philbuntu despite my hard efforts
 * MarkDude just felt a disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly saying oh crap. Here it goes again...
<MarkDude> Keep with is philipballew
 * MarkDude wanted to make his own version , called *Dudebuntu*
<philipballew> I mean, I dont see what is wrong with the name.
<philipballew> with linux mint having all these "editions" maybe I can get a Linux Mint philipballew edition
<philipballew> then I might actually try it
<DonkeyHotei> when ubuntu christian edition came out, i speculated that there would next be a dairy farmers' edition, moobuntu
<philipballew> my constant email to all Canonical employees has resulted in nothing. I think I will update my auto-emailer to every hour to send to all Canonical Employees
<philipballew> I wonder why somebody needs to make a "christian edition"
<philipballew> makes Christians look both separate and stupid...
<MarkDude> RTF philipballew , You have it already :)
<philipballew> seriously MarkDude
<DonkeyHotei> philipballew: and nothing was removed to make it, only added
<MarkDude> Yep
<MarkDude> Well minus some branding stuff
<philipballew> DonkeyHotei, It just has bible application I think or stuff like that iirc
<MarkDude> That stuff can be removed and switched to generic iptions
<philipballew> I am not yet sold on reading books on the computer myself
<philipballew> Question here: would someone want to say I am actually a good person on the wiki for membership board:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/philipballew
<pleia2> philipballew: probably want to s/Council/Board on that wiki page
<philipballew> pleia2, I should probably not type things at 4 am
<pleia2> it's a membership board which just reviews applications, not a governing council in any way
 * philipballew high fives pleia2 
<pleia2> ^5
<philipballew> I tried high 4's once, they never cought on...
<MarkDude> Trying to write a reasonable response to naming thing is harder than I thought. I am just going to include pleia2 's link. Tell folks to grab some popcorn and pull up a seat. This is going to get interesting :)
 * MarkDude is *actually* going to have to draft a response to this.
 * philipballew trusts MarkDude 's judgment 
<MarkDude> Well on the hotdog thing?
 * MarkDude questions his own judgement here, luckily it is a silly matter, and being wrong here does not have dire results
<philipballew> Well I do enjoy hot Dogs, but apparently India does not
<MarkDude> Well mostly folks over 35
 * MarkDude is in 40s, so there is no agism here
<philipballew> hum. wonder why
 * MarkDude has guesses regarding schools, UK involvement, etc
<MarkDude> in writing my report on UDS. It starts out- it was hella fun. also folks were wondering what the hell the debate over the name thing
<MarkDude> mark S has saved some valuable time - by just picking names himself
<MarkDude> :D
<bkerensa> pleia2: looks like you guys are setup for puppetconf ;) cheers
<pleia2> bkerensa: yeah, thanks :)
<pleia2> pmatulis: no need to PM, if you want to talk we can talk here :)
<pmatulis> ok
<pmatulis> can you remind me what Warren's last name is?  i was on the walking tour with him
<pleia2> hmm, I'll check the RSVP list (not sure off the top of my head)
<pleia2> nope, I don't know :(
<pmatulis> oh well.  thx again for organizing the tour
<pleia2> you're welcome :)
<DonkeyHotei> the only warren i remember from uds is warren turkal, wt on freenode
<bkerensa> gimp source package is so big >.<
<jtatum> pleia2: did you get a reboot announcement from linode? just got one with an ominous message in it
<jtatum> "This maintenance is required due to a software issue which our vendor will disclose to the public in a few weeks."
<DonkeyHotei> don't they use kvm now?
<pleia2> jtatum: nope, which datacenter are you in? (I have ones in Newark and Dallas)
<jtatum> dallas and fremont. you should start getting notices today. was just reading the #linode logs.. it's all hosts
<jtatum> the notice i got was for fremont
<pleia2> ah :)
<jyo> jtatum: Tomorrow?
<jtatum> jyo: saturday, 7-10PM pacific
<jyo> jtatum: I mean for the Ubuntu Hour. :)
<jtatum> lol :) yeah, it's on. sending email now
<jtatum> jyo: have you heard from jdeslippe yet?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-05-17
<jyo> jtatum: Yeah. Caught him on Gchat yesterday. Email him?
<philipballew> gnomememes.tumblr.com
<philipballew> slightly funny ^
<philipballew> Time for some more Mineral Water!
<philipballew> Third Mineral water today!
<greg-g> I should get something good to drink, I've only had 2 beers since lunch time
<philipballew> bkerensa, so were you givin any information about these hp cloud servers they gave you?
<epikvision> hey guy
<epikvision> s
<philipballew> epikvision, hello!
<epikvision> hey philipballew
<epikvision> grantbow, are you present?
<philipballew> so if you want to install linux desktops in school there are many benifits, but you just have to convince the admins to see them
<philipballew> epikvision, I assume people are gone as its midnight
<epikvision> sigh
<epikvision> i should've brought this up earlier
<philipballew> I said ask him, because he gave the talk you saw at uds. however he is not here now most likely
<pleia2> philipballew: I don't know context in this case, but it's not just about "the admins"
<philipballew> why the rush?
<philipballew> haha, well good luck dude
<pleia2> there are a lot of funding, district-level stuff and other complications in public schools which are pretty much impossible to get around
<epikvision> impossible?
<epikvision> :(
<philipballew> yeah epikvision
<pleia2> partimus only works in public charter schools
<epikvision> charter schools, ahh
<pleia2> we're in the library of one unified school district school, but they literally sneak us in the back door
<philipballew> thats true
<pleia2> I spoke to several people at SCALE who were putting linux in schools, their experiences mirrored that of Partimus - even people who have worked for public schools
<philipballew> probably in the middle of the night and you wear all black
<pleia2> they all either moved to charter schools, or only target charter schools (like we do), to succeed
<epikvision> pleia2: can you tell me about Partimus?
<epikvision> what is it exactly
<pleia2> it's a non-profit which takes in hardware donations and coordinates volunteers to take the hardware donations and build and maintain labs in a few bay area schools
<philipballew> yeah, linux is not established on the desktop
<pleia2> philipballew: it's more complicated than that :(
<pleia2> there are funding things tied to technology (they need to spend their tech budget or they lose it), approvals for software, requirements for software and what needs to be supported
<philipballew> I know pleia2 . I was just trying to simplify it down. Its near impossible to do so.
<epikvision> yeah
<epikvision> but at least i'm getting it
<pleia2> even if it was established on the desktop it would be a hard sell (it took a decade or longer for Windows to make it in to schools after Apple took over, in some schools Apple still dominates)
<pleia2> once Windows was a success in the consumer market
<epikvision> now, it's a hag in the school market
<pleia2> well, they are making progress again with the ipads in schools (shudder)
<epikvision> oh my
<pleia2> did you see bug 1000000? :)
<epikvision> does ubuntu have its own gradepro softwre?
<philipballew> windows desktops are used 100 at my school, yet about 70 percent of students use osx
<pleia2> gradepro?
<philipballew> I thiught that was a good bug pleia2
<epikvision> grade inputting app
<epikvision> application for teachers
<pleia2> there is very little consumer-level software released for linux
<epikvision> mmm
<pleia2> there may be some you can get working on ubuntu, particularly if it's web-based
<philipballew> weve seen that lately
<epikvision> sounds nice
<scientes> philipballew, "70 percent of students use osx"
<pleia2> yeah, the partimus schools all use a lot of web software, so we need to make sure their java and flash packages work well
<scientes> rich kid school?
<scientes> pleia2, i havn't used java for years
<pleia2> scientes: neither have I, but a lot of web-based games and educational tools still do (we're talking elementary to middle)
<scientes> well, scratch that, usgs has a "earth now" applet that is pretty cool--live streams of landsats---but that works fine with the openjdk applet
<pleia2> I don't have it installed anywhere
<epikvision> maybe, I'm too ambitious.
<scientes> pleia2, http://earthnow.usgs.gov/
<epikvision> but i don't think it hurts to give it a shot
<pleia2> epikvision: what are you trying to do?
<epikvision> ahh
<scientes> anyways i'm going to go to sleep, pleia2 where is this edu project mailing list?
<pleia2> scientes: for partimus? or ubuntu in education in general? or edubuntu dev?
<scientes> partimus i believe
<philipballew> scientes, around there. might be 60. It definitely is. I have a scholership so I hang out with rich OC kids all day. Really interesting to see the socio-political differences between a rich socal kid and a poor norcal kid
<epikvision> pleia2: i'm planning to raise school attention to make Linux the main os
<epikvision> xp has been around too long.
<pleia2> epikvision: ah, awareness is always good :)
<scientes> epikvision, except that vista, and vista 7  suck
<pleia2> if you make progress in a california public school I'd be interested to hear about it
<epikvision> alright!
<scientes> !!
<epikvision> I'm pretty revved u
<epikvision> up
<philipballew> Spread the loco epikvision !
<philipballew> a ubuntu high?
 * epikvision nods in earnest
<epikvision> sleep deprivation won't stop me now!  woot
 * epikvision was just kidding
<philipballew> that speach my jono at uds really reved you up at the end?
<epikvision> yeah
<epikvision> it was magnifique
 * philipballew wore jono's shirt yesterday
<pleia2> me too actually (to a balug meeting)
 * epikvision feels jealous
<pleia2> I hope you washed it first :)
<philipballew> Why would I wash it?
<pleia2> hahah
<epikvision> pleia2: before I leave, can you suggest some good arguments to present?
<epikvision> about adopting open source?
<philipballew> Yeah, Made sure to make it not smell like  old spice
<pleia2> epikvision: don't talk about cost, it doesn't matter
<pleia2> epikvision: talk about freedom in the sense of open data and the free availability of the source code to make changes to the software without paying huge expensive fees to a vendor who locks you in
<philipballew> people dont really care about open source, only that it works
<epikvision> gotcha, i need to fill up some gaps.
<scientes> and teaching kids to be self-suficient
<scientes> cause only with free software can they learn about the system
<pleia2> philipballew: vendor lock-in is a serious problem :(
<philipballew> pleia2, How so?
<epikvision> what's vendor lockin
<pleia2> schools, companies, government organizations, everyone gets locked into a format and all their data is trapped, they have to keep paying the vendor forever
<philipballew> I see many people happly buy the software and love the propitery companies?
<scientes> philipballew, open your eyes, half of your technical problems are caused by market pie cutting for mega-conglomerates
<pleia2> if the vendor goes out of business, they're in trouble, if they want to leave, they pay mega expensive migration costs
<scientes> epikvision, vendor treadmill
<pleia2> with open source at least you have the option of figuring out how your data went in, so if there is no easy export tool you can typically get it out without too much trouble
<pleia2> still may not be cheap, but at least you're not at the mercy of a black box vendor holding you hostage
<philipballew> I know scientes I just dont always think others see i.
<philipballew> my college I go to has to have windows 2000 servers running still that controll the locks for the doors
<scientes> wtf there is a ubuntu icon character!!!!
<scientes> http://www.jorgecastro.org/images/column80.png
<pleia2> epikvision: even if you don't succeed, getting people to start thinking about these things, or remembering pains in the past (I assure you many have had trouble with vendor lock in), they may be more open in the future
<philipballew> i agree that cost is not an issue, people always bring up that point, but its not that big of a deal to get a giant reuseable windows licance key
<scientes> philipballew, and the first thing microsoft does is offer them a DRASTICALLY reduced license to keep ppl from switching
<pleia2> philipballew: schools tend to get pretty deep discounts from microsoft
<philipballew> I have one for work that I never use
 * epikvision chuckles
<epikvision> why not just install ubuntu there as well?
<philipballew> +1
<scientes> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1998/07/20/245683/index.htm
<scientes> Bill Gates: "Although about three million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade. "
<pleia2> epikvision: you're local to the bay area, right?
<epikvision> no
<epikvision> unfortunately
<pleia2> doh
<pleia2> how'd you get to UDS? :)
<philipballew> i get free coppies if I want as I am a computer informations student
<epikvision> I live in Los Angeles
<pleia2> ah
<epikvision> XD my dad was really nice to bring me there
<pleia2> your dad rocks :)
<philipballew> hi five for dad
<scientes> philipballew, I get free copies of Ubuntu , on nice pressed CDs, at UDS :))
<epikvision> thanks!  And I sacrificed ap week to check out the Ubuntu community
<epikvision> now, from my dormancy, I arose with newfound purpose.
<pleia2> epikvision: might want to check out http://www.komputers4rkids.com/
<philipballew> scientes, as did I. I took like 50 of them!
<pleia2> epikvision: if you get even a single teacher interested who can put a computer in their classroom, k4rk can probably hook you up
<philipballew> epikvision, you know dave (iheartubuntu) has a small buissness he runs where he installs ubuntu on desktops
<epikvision> really?!
<epikvision> funny, I don't see him at ubuntu hour at pasadena often
<pleia2> he's been mega busy lately :\
<philipballew> I think so, he used to. he has a lot of small business that he actually never does anything with but still owns them
<philipballew> I talked stalks with him for a good hour today
<philipballew> *stocks
<philipballew> pleia2, He was able to run those open weel sessions though
<philipballew> *week
<pleia2> yeah, can do those from home :)
<pleia2> he wasn't able to make it out to scale this year, was sad
<philipballew> true. i was hoping to see him as uds. but only richard came
<pleia2> and he was only around for a couple days
<philipballew> I was sad I wanted to see him there
<philipballew> yeah, had to go back to la. hes a professional dev for his own small company
 * pleia2 nods
<philipballew> he is going to be working this year writting docs for peoople porting apps to ubuntu iirc
<pleia2> yeah, and trying to get app dev stuff out to the broader programming communities
<pleia2> we're very good at talking to our choir ;)
<philipballew> exactly. the problem is that the people who write the app portal only know ubuntu, so windows devs have a hard time coming to join.
<epikvision> we need people with the best of both worlds, huh
<philipballew> im a horrible programmer
<scientes> as are most windows programmers ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<philipballew> the only thing I have close to a windows install around me is a reactos vm
<scientes> ugggghhhh
<scientes> I guess they help wine
<epikvision> hahah
<philipballew> maybe that counts
<philipballew> its open source
<philipballew> scientes, whats wrong with reactos?
<pleia2> it's kind of a joke ;)
<pleia2> even if it ran well, it can never be a serious OS, Microsoft would shut them down (and be well within their intellectual property rights to do so)
<epikvision> pleia2: thanks very much for helping me out
<epikvision> i've teamed up with another senior from my school who's into this cause as well
<scientes> pleia2, "IP" as a word only causes confusion
<pleia2> you're welcome :) feel free to nudge if you have other questions, particularly about the technologies we use and such, I'm happy to help
<epikvision> pleia2: alright, have a good night!  tomorrow's the last day of standard testing.
<epikvision> you too scientes
<pleia2> epikvision: night, good luck!
 * pleia2 sleep &
<scientes> sleep[1]: terminated
<jyo> jtatum: ping
<jtatum> hi jyo
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-05-18
<paulproteus> scientes: Yo. Where are you at the moment -- north bay?
<scientes> paulproteus, yep
<scientes> paulproteus, why you ask?
<paulproteus> scientes: Planning to go chill at Noisebridge or something.
<scientes> hmm, i've never been there, but it looks cool
<scientes> paulproteus, yeah I just finished my first Mozilla patch! I'd be up for it
<paulproteus> When could you be here? Sadly I have plans to be somewhere at 8 which might make the timing tight
<scientes> erggg, i'd like to come in for longer if im coming all the way to the city, i'm old fashioned like that
<paulproteus> yeah, agreed
<paulproteus> We'll rock it another day
<scientes> that place looks cool
<scientes> http://lwn.net/Articles/497106/
<scientes> we had a discussion about this at uds at the userspace namespaces session
<scientes> wait, thats a shitty patch
<scientes> it should just use userspace namespaces, and allow you to do files with ANY UID/GID
<scientes> ahh that was mentioned later http://lwn.net/Articles/497480/
<MarkDude> http://makerfaire.com/ is THIS weekend
<MarkDude> a few of us are going on Sat
<philipballew> MarkDude, I will be there
<pleia2> yep, some Ubuntu California folks are helping jack with the BerkeleyLUG booth :)
<philipballew> I just need to figure out how to get from napa to there via the bus
<pleia2> like philipballew!
<philipballew> like me!
<MarkDude> On sat?
<philipballew> yeah. saturday morning
<MarkDude> Cool. meet up for some fun
 * MarkDude got covered in diet coke from eepybird last year
<philipballew> yeah, I am down for that. I'm going to probably bring a sleeping bag in case I find the bus does not go back to my temp housing.
<philipballew> sunday public transit in ca is hard somethimes
<philipballew> like buying beer in the midwest on a sunday
<philipballew> MarkDude, were you able to change?
<DonkeyHotei> philipballew: are you by any chance in auburn tomorrow?
<scientes> "My problem with Kay is that he has a very strong idea of what he wants, and it is fundamentally about a desktop distro in a very specific mold. It's not at all clear how well it will work in an environment with lots of Fiber Channel attached disks, for example. Which is fine, except that companies like Red Hat and SuSE have tied their community distro to folks who only fundamentally care about the desktop, but their cus
<scientes> tomers are folks who need to worry about things like full init.d backwards compatibility (including system V init levels!!!) and things like huge numbers of FC attached disks where it may not at all be scaleable to enumerate them all at system startup.
<scientes> What this is going to mean for future enterprise customers at Red Hat and SuSE is going to be entertaining to watch, but I for one will be switching to Debian Testing because systemd looks like a slow motion disaster from where I sit, and even on my laptop, I don't think I want it. GNOMEos? When GNOME is actively hostile to power users? I don't think so....ï»¿"-Theo Ts'o on systemd
<scientes> interesting
<philipballew> DonkeyHotei, maybe. but not likely. why?
<MarkDude> philipballew, like  change what?
<MarkDude> In the Buddhist sense?
<DonkeyHotei> i need a favor from someone in that area with bash-fu
<philipballew> what kind of favor?
<DonkeyHotei> the errand kind
<philipballew> I can ask people easily probably
<MarkDude> Go meet a Columbian in the park
<philipballew> I do know a good 20 percent of the pop
<MarkDude> He will be wearing a raincoat and a hat...
<philipballew> MarkDude, Il be wearing a shirt and pants
<DonkeyHotei> by favor, i mean $0.00
<MarkDude> sit next to his and grab his case , he will take yours
<philipballew> totally
<philipballew> i figured DonkeyHotei
<MarkDude> they will be matching
<DonkeyHotei> big plus if they have ipv6-fu
<philipballew> MarkDude, doing sketchy activities again?
<philipballew> I doubt auburn does
 * MarkDude was saying that is DonkeyHotei 's favor he was asking
<philipballew> I have a box thrown in auburn that I can let you access if you need as well
<DonkeyHotei> MarkDude: not too far off, except for the ipv6
<DonkeyHotei> philipballew: strictly on-site
<philipballew> hum. Well what is it you need?
<DonkeyHotei> and not quite auburn; i just figured sac was on the way to auburn
<philipballew> also, people in auburn dont lock down their wifi
<philipballew> It is, I will be in Davis on Monday I know for sure
<philipballew> If I am not there tomorow ill be there both sunday and monday
<DonkeyHotei> i'm referring to tomorrow in particular
<philipballew> ah, well I will not be
<philipballew> I just confirmed
<DonkeyHotei> well, you did say you know 20 other people...
<philipballew> I do, but in Auburn, not Sacramento
<DonkeyHotei> ah
<geofft> scientes: glad someone had the same thought
<DonkeyHotei> well, was worth a shot
<philipballew> for sure
<geofft> maybe I should just write the patch. but I've never played with vfs or container implementation.
<geofft> whoa, tons of traffic since then. (re mount + clone-newuser)
<geofft> scientes: user namespaces aren't perfect, iirc. can you say "map 0 to UINT_MAX in this ns to the single uid 1000"?
<scientes> geofft, do the ext filesystems support full 32-bit UIDs?
<scientes> anyways you could always just map the first 16-bits
<scientes> even 12 bits would suffice for most use cases
<scientes> geofft, the rest are just mounted to the special "out-of-range" uid, and because you are root in that namespace, can be changed to something within range
<scientes> geofft, we would assume that if being mounted that way, you wouldn't then be having extensive use of sub-namespaces---i.e. you wouldn't then have large amounts of uids on the device mapped to "privlidged" and globally registered UIDs, only "old-style" uids
<scientes> geofft, all you have to do is have a sane management of the distinction of kuid and user-space uid
<philipballew> pleia2, does the people in charge of a uds meeting need to subscribe people to a blueprint?
<DonkeyHotei> people subscribe themselves
<pleia2> philipballew: not sure what you mean, can you give me an example?
<philipballew> the blueprints we had open in summit, those turn into launchpad pages sooner or later and people are subscribed to them. Is that automatic, or does someone do that?
<philipballew> pleia2,
<pleia2> philipballew: when you create a blueprint it becomes a launchpad page (should redirect you to the page it just created)
<pleia2> then people can subscribe to it
<pleia2> the owner has to set things like Approver, Drafter, etc
<philipballew> alright, the people who attended the meeting are already subscribed?
<pleia2> you aren't required to subscribe to attend
<pleia2> people who are interested in tracking the blueprint through the cycle subscribe
<philipballew> oh, my bad
<philipballew> okay. Ill need to see if people subscribed to the one I made then
<philipballew> Is there a list of these pages or does my summit page have the link, as I dont see the link on the page?
<pleia2> "these pages"?
<philipballew> I only have my summit page I used durring the meeting I made http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20717/community-q-ubuntu-youth/
<pleia2> there is a blueprint link near the top
<philipballew> ...
<philipballew> I spent a good 10 minutes scrooling through the blueprint looking for it...
<scientes> geofft, (uid_t)-1 and (gid_t)-1 are reserved as an internal error value.
<scientes>   Most uid/gid setting system calls treat these value specially anyway
<scientes>   so attempting to use -1 as a uid would likely cause entertaining
<scientes>   failures in userspace.
 * philipballew shoots himself in the foot
<scientes> wait, that means that uids are 31-bit not 32 i guess
<geofft> scientes, should still be 32-bit. it's presumably the same deal as IS_ERR
<philipballew> This maker fair thing looks sick
<scientes> geofft, well if they allow -1 then it has to be 31 bit, unless they are doing it 64-bit in the kernel, which doesn't seem wise
<geofft> scientes: pretty sure ext supports 32-bit UIDs; I use several systems with more than 64k accounts
<philipballew> Does anyone know if the cal train lets off near there?
<geofft> scientes: but in any case, mapping overflowuid in the host would work mostly fine
<akk> philipballew: It does ... near enough, anyway.
<scientes> geofft, yeah but do you have multiple detachable user-controlled devices that have more than 64k accounts?
<akk> philipballew: The maker faire site should give directions from the caltrain station.
<philipballew> alright, alright, that sounds good. I have mapped out how to get there from the Richmond station.
<philipballew> and a dennys 1.8 miles from it.
<philipballew> thanks akk
<geofft> scientes, no :)
<geofft> (I'm also vaguely unsettled by the concept of different namespaces mapping to the same overflowuid, but that's a separate question)
<scientes> geofft, yes, that was an issue at the uds conf i attended to as well
<scientes> it means that ALL unix-like systems have to pre-allocate that UID as a user, to prevent it from being auto-allocated
<scientes> seems to me that just having uid's be signed, and the lower half reserved by the system would be far saner
<scientes> but i guess that decision is already over ;)
<scientes> then we could cap the overflowuid to a well-known negative number, and have it linked to a capability (now that capabilities are usable inside user namespaces)
<geofft> djb has this funky proposal that's that except backwards -- all odd uids are system-reserved, or something like that
<scientes> oh geeze, thats madness
<scientes> aka big-endian signed-ness
<scientes> i can see that it would be sane to attach the sign to the little-end of the number, instead of the more traditional big-end
<scientes> that way when you ask for a user name-space you could even concievably decide how many bits of uids you need
<scientes> and then the kernel can just do a simple truncation of the number---IF the sign is at the little end
<scientes> but that really is just a quibble, nothing from with using 7 or E in a bitmask
<scientes> geofft, link?
<scientes> gos, im rambling
<geofft> http://cr.yp.to/unixaccount.html
<geofft> "I suggest using odd numbers for all site-specific account IDs, so that even numbers can be safely allocated to global accounts."
<geofft> and every djb-allocated uid is some even number greater than 2^30
<DonkeyHotei> if they were in equal quantities, that wouldn't be so ridiculous, but they're not
<jyo> jtatum: Emailed.
<scientes> DonkeyHotei, its rediculous if only for the reason that it is super confusing
<scientes> people expect numbers to be *sequential*
<DonkeyHotei> right
<scientes> geofft, see, this would be a great use of those negative UID's, cause we could map the entire user-drive to negative numbers behind the scenes
<scientes> so that it wouldn't get in the way of any possible UIDs elsewhere in the system
<philipballew> bkerensa, around?
<bkerensa> philipballew: now I am
<philipballew> bkerensa, so were you givin any details about the hp cloud service?
<bkerensa> philipballew: I'm waiting for Mr. Ash to hit me up
<bkerensa> philipballew: why? I thought he set you up
<philipballew> He said he did, I am just wanting to make sure my beta never ends so they dont start charging me
<bkerensa> philipballew: uhh do you have a card associated with ur account?
<philipballew> bkerensa, well yeah, its still there since i had it in the privitee beta
<philipballew> I was going to email the guy this weekend
<bkerensa> ahh
<bkerensa> yeah I would e-mail him in advanced
<bkerensa> beta is over and unless he did something on their side then you will get charged
<philipballew> before i do any serious hacking
<philipballew> I think he did, because he said he did. but I have not seen any thing on my webpage
<philipballew> Mapping public transit is annoying
<bkerensa> heh
<philipballew> Saturday means I have to ride my bike 15 miles at 6 in the morning
<philipballew> what do that think I am, a morning person?
<bkerensa> First World Problems
<philipballew> seriously
<akk> Anyone know anything about the developer.ubuntu.com process and Ubuntu App Center? I'm trying to figure out what repo contributed apps go into.
<akk> #ubuntu-app-devel is just crickets.
<pleia2> akk: pretty sure it's extras.ubuntu.com
<akk> Ah, interesting, I don't have that enabled -- I'll try that.
<akk> There's apparently only one contributed app anyway (only one that shows up in the software center), leds
<pleia2> it's very early in the cycle and they don't persist between versions automatically
<pleia2> you have to go through a process to get your app in precise after precise is released, there are more in oneiric
<akk> oh, interesting. I assumed that the most apps would be for the newest release.
<akk> http://extras.ubuntu.com precise Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 16126D3A3E5C1192 -- where would I get keys for it?
<akk> I also need to figure out how to get my own PPA's key, the PPA docs don't explain that.
<pleia2> should just be able to use the typical gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --rec 3E5C1192
<pleia2> er recv
<akk> Just the last 8 digits of the key it lists in the error message?
<pleia2> yeah, just like personal gpg fingerprints
<pleia2> the key id is always the last 8 digits
<akk> Oh, does it matter if I do that as me or as root?
<akk> Maybe that's why it happens for my PPA, because I have my key but root doesn't?
<pleia2> you can do it as a normal user, it just gets you the key, then you use sudo to put it in to apt, lemme find the command...
<pleia2> gpg --export --armor 3E5C1192 | sudo apt-key add -
<akk> Thanks!
<pleia2> sure :)
<akk> It looks like I have to do the keyserver step even for my own ppa -- does ubuntu make a separate key different from my own key that I used to sign it?
<pleia2> not sure
<jtatum> for ppas, if you use apt-add-repository, it does it for you
<akk> It didn't for me, jtatum
<akk> That's how I added the repo, but it still complained about the key.
<akk> But I added the repo early on, before it had finished accepting and building the package -- maybe it doesn't set up the key until it has packages.
<jtatum> hmmm
<jtatum> strange
<jtatum> via the "ppa:xyz" type command line?
<akk> yep
<jtatum> what the heck! very odd. usually the output of that says something about the keys its adding.
<bkerensa> philipballew: I just sent me info over to HP for the lifetime comp cloud acct ;0
<bkerensa> philipballew: Ash CC'ed me when he sent a e-mail to all the cloud people at Canonical too
<philipballew> so what does that mean for me
<philipballew> and you?
<philipballew> bkerensa,
<philipballew> How do I know I have it like he said?
<bkerensa> philipballew: idk what it means for you? You should probably e-mail him.... I just know he is comp'ing all developers hacking in the cloud
<philipballew> do you have his email?
<philipballew> you can pm it to me if thats better
<philipballew> if not bkerensa thats cool
<bkerensa> I just pm'ed it
<bkerensa> I mean if he said you are good to go at UDS then you should be assuming you provided him a acct id and tenant id?
<philipballew> i gave him my business card that had my email associated with my account. This is the hp guy at the booth
<bkerensa> yeah you better get in touch because they need an acct # and tenant id which only you can provide
<philipballew> bkerensa, the guys name is ash that emailed me. do you knoow where to find the guy on irc?
<bkerensa> ?
<bkerensa> I dont think he uses irc
<philipballew> oh, well I do have his phone number.
 * philipballew is sad that everybody does not use irc...
<philipballew> I think I will call him
<bkerensa> most people do not use irc
<bkerensa> the fraction of the population that does is very insignificant in size
<akk> It's amazing how many tech/OSS projects don't have IRC channels.
<philipballew> well I called him, maybe I will email as well. Thats usually polite
<philipballew> bkerensa, did you still have to enter your credit card?
<akk> I hate "free" things that require a CC number.
 * akk wants to get a $1 gift card to use on such sites
<philipballew> I agree, I always feel unsure.
<philipballew> hints the=is email and all
<philipballew> *this email
<philipballew> akk, all ready for the eclipse?
<akk> Yep, I think so!
<bkerensa> philipballew: I have my card on file because my account pre-dated the offer for comp
<philipballew> yeah, me to
<philipballew> i called and emailed him, gave him two methods to contact me. Figure he should get back to me in the next few days
<bkerensa> generally not a good idea to call and e-mail someone =/ might irritate them
<philipballew> hum, I was taught to do that at my last job.
<bkerensa> hmm
<bkerensa> call/e-mail same day = urgency
<philipballew> I usually figure it allows people two methods to contact me. easier for them
<philipballew> if he asks ill say I am not in a hurry
<philipballew> maybe its a so cal thing
<philipballew> How safe of an area is San Mateo where this fair is this weekend?
<akk> It's not super snazzy, kinda low-rent, but I don't think it's dangerous to walk around.
<akk> Didn't feel at risk walking back to the car (way across town) last year.
<akk> And the Maker Faire area itself is super crowded, unbelievably crowded.
<philipballew> alright. Thats the impression I get. I need to find a good spot to put my bike. Maybe I can keep it at the booth or lock it somewhere
<philipballew> Its apparently a big event
<akk> Ah, bike safety can be an issue even in fairly nice areas (I had a bike stolen in palo alto).
<akk> But if you find a crowded area to lock it, hopefully bike thieves won't be doing anything obvious like breaking locks with lots of people around.
<akk> If you can lock it somewhere near the faire gates (not somewhere like the train station) I'd think that would be safe.
<philipballew> true. I need the bike to ride 15 miles tomorow morning to catch the bus so I kinda need it
<bkerensa> stupid taxi in Oakland added an extra $10 to my card >.<
<philipballew> ive never riden a taxi. They seem like nice things though
<akk> http://makerfaire.com/bayarea/2012/alternative.csp : FREE, secure valet bicycle parking is located on S. Delaware Street (south of the West Gate near 25th Avenue). Bicycle locks are encouraged. Valet service provided by the Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition.
<akk> I googled "maker faire" "san mateo" bikes
<akk> Also you can get discount discount tickets if you bike (same page).
<akk> er, only one discount :)
<philipballew> What if I ride two bikes at once akk :)
<akk> philipballew: This being maker faire, they might give you credit for it if you looked entertaining. :)
<pleia2> lol
<philipballew> but thats good to hear, I think im going to leave here at 530 to get to sf by 8 and get to the maker fair by 9 30
<philipballew> mapped it out, what could go wrong.
<philipballew> besides a flat tire, get lost, bike stolen or dont make the bus
<pleia2> "Restart lightdm? Y/n" <enter> NO WAIT JFLKDSDF
<pleia2> sigh :)
<philipballew> I have to run service lightdm restart every few days
<pleia2> that's not good :\
<pleia2> this is just from an update
<philipballew> yeah, I have run the unity daily. might be related
<philipballew> though I purged that a few weeks back
<philipballew> pleia2, how often do you update?
<akk> But at least it's not apache. :)  /me currently fighting with apache yet again to turn on php for another vhost
<philipballew> After I write anything in PHP, I always feel the need to wash my hands really well...
<philipballew> it never seems to do what it is told
<akk> I only use it for simple stuff -- adding sidebars/footers, or a simple image gallery with prev/next buttons.
<akk> It's pretty good for that.
<akk> I'd hate to write a real app in it.
<akk> Especially since apache keeps changing the rules for how to enable it, sigh.
<philipballew> yeah, you can write apps in it iirc, but you used to not have as much functionally correct?
<philipballew> Just got a call from a friend from high school who is coming to the fair. Offered to pick me up in Vallejo.
<philipballew> Everything seems to work out
<akk> Hopefully that means not starting at 5:30 too.
<philipballew> yeah. hes gonna meet me at like 830 in Vallejo. So ill leave at 8 on my bike to meet him near the Marine World area.
<philipballew> Or whatever they call that place these days...
<pleia2> philipballew: whenever I feel like it or there is a particularly unpleasant security alert I want to update my system for
<philipballew> hum, seems logical. I usually uninstall the update manager as its a nuisance to be reminded to update so I sometimes forget.
<philipballew> but I update servers not very often
<philipballew> my debian server is only say every couple months
<jtatum> apt-unattended-upgrades
<philipballew> jtatum, I like to see what I am upgrading so I know whats going on. Helps me keep control in some ways
<cyphase> philipballew, makerfaire?
<gin> Hi
<gin> Hello Everybody
<gin> Is anyone ready to help me out??...
<pleia2> heh
<MarkDude> Im an American damnit. I dont have all minute....
<MarkDude> :D
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-05-19
<philipballew> cyphase, yeah!
<philipballew> ive never really been, can anyone describe the maker fair to me?
<cyphase> there are 3 things going on this weekend that i probably wont be able to make :(
<cyphase> makerfaire, http://www.northbaywebconference.com/, and the eclipse
<philipballew> what are you gonna be doing this weekend cyphase ?
<MarkDude> How can you not make the eclipse?
<MarkDude> Are you planning on being really drunk?
<MarkDude> Or maybe closing your eyes?
<MarkDude> :)
 * MarkDude kids
<MarkDude> because he is a kidder
<philipballew> I might, if I owned a telescope
<philipballew> MarkDude, so your still having the eclipse party tomorrow with the open bar and inviting everybody right?
<philipballew> :)
<MarkDude> Maybe
<MarkDude> Danville is not too far for folks
<MarkDude> We can do a bbq and stuff
<MarkDude> Just let me know ahead of time
<MarkDude> The gaurdshack wont let you in.... Unless your name is phoned in
 * MarkDude ONLY uses fake names for guests
<philipballew> LINUX party at MarkDude 's!!!!
<MarkDude> grantbow, needed to pick sumthin up from my place. The gaurds loled when I told them Dangerous G was coming soon
 * MarkDude did not make G disclose his middle name of MFing
<MarkDude> ^^^ True story
<philipballew> I need to good name when I do sometime then
<philipballew> what does one have to do to get a mf middle name MarkDude ?
<MarkDude> It takes a bit
<MarkDude> others have to decide it to be proper
 * MarkDude will PM you a link of notable MFers
<philipballew> a MFing committee
<MarkDude> sorta
 * philipballew will receive the mf list
<MarkDude> #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<scientes> MarkDude, party really?
<MarkDude> We can do a bbq
 * MarkDude is always open for a bbq
<scientes> where? can you send me an invite?
<MarkDude> Well its not planned yet
<MarkDude> if we can get at least 5 people interested
 * MarkDude is in Danville
<MarkDude> Meeting up in Walnut Creek works easier for some
<MarkDude> right near bart, and we have heather farms and also civic park
<scientes> well u got me signed up
<scientes> thats really on the bart way out there
<scientes> all pleasanton train
<MarkDude> Well danivlle is at least an 45 minute busride from WC
<MarkDude> 15 minute drive
<scientes> oOo
<scientes> when you said close i thought like UDS close
<scientes> to the bart
<MarkDude> Well WC is better option
<MarkDude> Civic park is like a 10 minute walk
<MarkDude> from bart
<philipballew> MarkDude, whats the day?
 * philipballew kinda feels bad that people now expect him to have a party
<MarkDude> Sunday
<MarkDude> we could meet Sunday afternoon
<MarkDude> again this is all last moment- lets go have some fun
<MarkDude> the next REAL one is most likely June 23rd
<MarkDude> Sponsored party no less, in honor of Beefy Miracle
<MarkDude> philipballew, dont feel bad
<MarkDude> I love to party
<philipballew> ain't no party like a MarkDude party
<MarkDude> There ya go
<MarkDude> Someone was asking for my help at tech stuff
 * MarkDude said he is good at wearing a penguin suit, bbq, and talking
<MarkDude> And sometimes wearing a apenguin suit WHILE talking
<philipballew> There was a story yesterday about a biker on the tour de California being chased by a guy in a Penguin suit.
<philipballew> We now know who stole your suit
<akk> ha, that sounds like a story worth reading
<akk> Was penguin suit guy also on a bike?
<philipballew> Maybe. I saw it on ABC 7 yesterday
<scientes> MarkDude, can you send me an invite on the Beefy Miricle
<scientes> it got posponed a week, does that change the party date?
<MarkDude> Wel the Miracle party will be promoted
<MarkDude> And even tho its for another Distro
 * MarkDude has set up making sure to have Ubuntu media there for it
<MarkDude> as I did last event
 * MarkDude met with pleia2 in SF to get that media
<MarkDude> was with Nixie Pixel for a flashmob
<philipballew> whats the date of the party MarkDude I need an excuse to wear my fedora sgirt
<philipballew> *shirt
<MarkDude> pleia2, walks up hands a bag over to me- says she has servers to watch
<philipballew> servers can watch themselves
<MarkDude> Nixie Princess. Princess meet Nixie
<philipballew> never met her
<MarkDude> Lyz walks off to leave Nixie saying that looked like some FOSS drug deal
<MarkDude> Anyway, I digress.
<philipballew> thats the youtube girl right?
<philipballew> I know no other way to ask
<raevol> if anyone wants to take a look at a Unity Dash issue, curious why my fable icons aren't working in unity: http://askubuntu.com/questions/139204/how-can-i-get-the-desktop-name-and-icon-to-show-up-in-unity-for-fable-on-wine
<MarkDude> Yes. She is the woman that has made a lving off of video games
<MarkDude> Or she is ok with being called that geeky youtube chick
<philipballew> Ive never met her, she seems nice though MarkDude
<MarkDude> https://www.facebook.com/markterranova if anyone wants to add me for the tomfoolery
<MarkDude> actually she is one of the nicest folks you'll ever meet
<philipballew> is she a linux user
<MarkDude> Yes.
<MarkDude> Linux Mint. Ubuntu. Fedora
<MarkDude> thats her preference
<MarkDude> in that order
<philipballew> Feel free to follow me for the same reasons https://twitter.com/#!/philipballew
<philipballew> MarkDude, I have had several people attack linux mint based on the creators, which is a off based stance, though it seems like a nice distro
 * MarkDude thought he was already following you
<MarkDude> corrected
<philipballew> I now follow you as well
<MarkDude> well, it gets into culty type stuff
<MarkDude> Its like belief systems
<philipballew> how so?
<MarkDude> I mean I like how Fedora has the Freedom stance, and they take it soooooo far
<philipballew> very far
<MarkDude> But is comes down to hey- this crap WONT work on this machine
<MarkDude> So you end up with driver issues
<MarkDude> I think folks that are upset with Mint, have become more upset after Unity
<philipballew> it just depends on the kernel shipped for drivers really though
 * MarkDude had someone complaining in Fedora about drivers and how they - well lack in some cases
 * MarkDude said - you are a vegan now
<MarkDude> Ubuntu are vegetarians
<MarkDude> they have more choices
<philipballew> There upset people switch and find a reason such as the "stealing of money" or the "Antisemitism"
<MarkDude> Well maybe vegetarians that also eat fish, but I digress
<akk> Fun analogies.
 * MarkDude was not up to date  on that, I should read up
<MarkDude> lol - I think its accurate - to some extent tho :)
<philipballew> all drivers should be opened
<philipballew> I dont understand Antisemitism myself so it is hard to relate to being brought up that way
<MarkDude> FSF exteme folks  are like raw food eaters. they cant eat it if its been cooked
 * MarkDude knows not enough to comment on Mint - its been years since I used it
<philipballew> http://thestallmandialogues.com/
<philipballew> I dont know enough to make a stance either
<MarkDude> Hmmmmm,
 * MarkDude feels another talk coming on 
<MarkDude> I dont think my veggie> vegan, raw food talk would play outside of West Coast tho
<MarkDude> :D
<akk> All I know about Mint is that a lot of people are treating it as "Ubuntu without Unity, with old Gnome 2"
<akk> and that it seems to have a lot of different versions/offshoots
<MarkDude> akk correct again
<MarkDude> Well all the names are of women also
<akk> and it's green instead of aubergine or orange or brown :)
 * MarkDude was ok wthh human color of Ubuntu
<MarkDude> But doe snot miss the *what can brown do for you ?* jokes
<philipballew> if you want gnome 2, why not just run debian squeeze?
<akk> I was glad to see the brown go away. I wanted some color.
<philipballew> I like purple myself
<akk> Not that I actually use the default desktop anyway, it was just the principle.
<akk> The purple is better.
<philipballew> hipper as well
<akk> Though needing to learn the word "aubergine" to refer to it probably doesn't help newbies.
<philipballew> THe brown did set it apart
<akk> Mint's green always makes me think of SuSE -- they were green first.
 * MarkDude is most liekly going to be turned down for using Fedora Blue in a logo- by RH legal
<MarkDude> Soooooo, he is calling their bluff, and saying he will use aubergine
<MarkDude> :D
<philipballew> SuSE is nice. Its like slackware, without the slackware
<MarkDude> And without the Zonker anymore
<MarkDude> Suse is dead to me after they got rid of Joe Brockmeir
<philipballew> the suse guy at scale told me his take on osx
<MarkDude> sp
<philipballew> "Unix for Girls"
<philipballew> was not sure what to say back
<MarkDude> Sounds like sumthin that could be said
<MarkDude> by that distro
<philipballew> for sure.
<MarkDude> actually more likely I would guess Gentoo :D
<philipballew> i said, "Yeah! I know tons of women that use that system!"
<philipballew> I hope he took it the way I intended
<philipballew> I was still able to get a free shirt from them as well
<philipballew> I always wonder about gentoo.
<philipballew> Its a nice enough system though
<MarkDude> nothing wrong with it technically
<MarkDude> But its where many trolls go to complete their schooling
<MarkDude> IMHO
<akk> A lot of smart techies use gentoo.
<philipballew> Schooling in what way?
<akk> But you can waste a lot of time in the rathole of gentoo re-configuration.
<akk> I waste enough time on ubuntu and debian configuration, I don't really need to find a distro that eats up even more of that. :)
<philipballew> if you want to go that route, id say arch
<akk> Agreed, arch has a lot of the benefits of gentoo (and many of the same problems as well) but is a lot less of a time sink.
<akk> (for normal operations ... of course any distro becomes a time sink when something breaks)
<philipballew> even in ubuntu.
<akk> definitely including ubunt
<akk> u
<philipballew> I recall back in the brown days spending a solid 15 hours rebuilding my sound just to get it working
<akk> but I had more, serious, bustages in arch and gentoo that became showstoppers, whereas with ubuntu I can usually find workarounds
<bkerensa> akk: scripts are your friend for configuration :)
 * MarkDude spent all sorts of time lurning how to work with debconf to help with video
 * bkerensa has a script he runs after every fresh install that installs all the packages he uses and configures everything to the letter :)
<MarkDude> Once I felt cool with it, that was removed from Ubuntu
<akk> bkerensa: Depends on what's broken. Scripts don't help much if udev isn't creating your device, for example.
<bkerensa> yeah true
<akk> (a common problem I have with ubuntu)
<philipballew> debconf is confusing
<bkerensa> FYI... USB 3.0 is for the win!
<bkerensa> especially for Ubuntu installs :)
 * bkerensa needs to get a SSD soon 
 * akk wants an SSD too
 * philipballew still runs pata
<akk> It's sad how fast stores stopped selling pata stuff.
<philipballew> i went to best buy on a papa clearence sale and got a 500 gb
 * MarkDude got some usb drives for the party, they were about a dollar a gig
<philipballew> i got a mysql flash drive at uds, and its bootstraped with mysql documents
<philipballew> very unhappy about this
<akk> You can't overwrite them?
 * akk needs to find a cheap source for 10 4G usb drives, was surprised to find pangolin doesn't really fit in 2g
<philipballew> nope. mkfs wont do anything. or gparted
<akk> philipballew: Weird! Are they read-only or something? What's the error?
<philipballew> akk, the flash drive boots up as sdb and sdc. sdb is a read only partition showing a bunch of mysql papers that cant be deleted. or mounted as read write.
<MarkDude> Office Depot may still have some on sale
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-05-20
<scientes> lol
<scientes> as a ant crawled across my screen i moved around a windows white/black/white/black flashing him
<scientes> and it confused him enought that he fell
<scientes> paulproteus, you around?
<DonkeyHotei> "In San Francisco, the eclipse will begin at 5:16 p.m. PDT. The maximum eclipse will occur at 6:32 p.m. when 84.22 percent of the sun will be obscured as shown in the illustration. The eclipse will end at 7:40 p.m." from http://www.exploratorium.edu/eclipse/annular/2012/
 * MarkDude will be thinking of Johnny Cash during it
<MarkDude> Ring of Fire and such....
<MarkDude> dragon, pingy
 * MarkDude has those codes for free entry to Maker Faire
<MarkDude> Pmed info. Laters
<philipballew> can I see the thing with my bare eyes?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-05-13
 * MarkDude is wearing his brand new Hello Kitty headphones to Starbucks and gonna listen to the episode about Ceph on Floss Weekly http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/250 I <3 Ceph, they had me at data striping :)
<darthrobot`> Title: [FLOSS Weekly 250 | TWiT.TV]
<pleia2> home \o/
<MarkDude> Yay
<MarkDude> Congrats pleia2
<MarkDude> Your travels looked fun
<pleia2> thank you
<MarkDude> Pyramids and such
<MarkDude> Tatica Maria Leandro got married on a pyramid
<MarkDude> Hope my gf did not see any of this- and get ideas, but WOW it looks cool
<MarkDude> :D
<MarkDude> Thats a very nice high bar to set, imho
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> our wedding itself was pretty traditional :)
<nhandler> Welcome home and congrats pleia2 !
<pleia2> thanks!
<MarkDude> Sure, but having pyramids in pics for wedding fun looks good from any angle
<pleia2> honeymoon anyway
<MarkDude> Beats Elvis or Vegas
<MarkDude> Ah yes
<pleia2> hah
<MarkDude> PArt of the *wedding package*
<nhandler> On a different note, I fly out to the bay area on Friday for the summer. Hoping to meet up with as many Ubuntu/Debian people as possible while I'm there
<pleia2> nhandler: great! in June we'll definitely be doing an ubuntu hour + debian dinner in sf (and I'm sure other things will be happening too
 * pleia2 didn't actually plan any of her life after the wedding, has no idea what's going on ;)
<nhandler> pleia2: Cool. I'll try and make it out there for the event.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-05-14
<bkerensa> pleia2: good morning
<bkerensa> philballew: good morning
<philballew> bkerensa, yo!
<philipballew> pleia2, the Ubuntu Womens group is still on I assume for today?
<philipballew> gonna pop into that session,
<pleia2> philipballew: yes, 19:05 utc
<philipballew> pleia2, nice, now I just need to learn utc for once.
<pleia2> 3 hours from now
<nhandler> philipballew: date --date='19:05 UTC'
<MarkDude> Community link is 11:05, I expect that one to be boring. http://design.canonical.com/2013/05/ubuntu-com-update/ helps a bit :)
<darthrobot`> Title: [Ubuntu.com update | Ubuntu Design Blog]
 * MarkDude is under the impression he is of FAR more use to UW, in the shadows, and keeping quiet for most part
<MarkDude> grantbow: you anywhere near SF?
<grantbow> MarkDude: I'm at home, you know how to reach me.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-05-15
<philipballew> pleia2, http://resme.me/3ueevh.jpg
<darthrobot`> [R: i.qkme.me] Content type: [image/jpeg] Size: [75945]
<pleia2> heh
 * philipballew tries
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-05-16
<grantbow> anyone online from noisebridge Linux discussion?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-05-17
<MarkDude> 	Google Glass has been hacked to run Ubunutu! At Google I/O, Google employees demonstrated how to root Google Glass and then run Ubuntu on it
<MarkDude> http://twit.tv/show/tech-news-today/756
<darthrobot`> Title: [Tech News Today 756 | TWiT.TV]
<MarkDude> The episode is called Ubuntu on your face
<pleia2> http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/16/google-glass-rooted-and-hacked-to-run-ubuntu-live-at-google-i-o/ is a more text-based version :)
<darthrobot`> Title: [Google Glass rooted and hacked to run Ubuntu live at Google I/O]
<MarkDude> Sure.
<akk> Nice to hear!
 * MarkDude shared it since EVERY time Ubuntu gets mentioned in non-FOSS circles- the better IMHO
<MarkDude> Its not on FLOSS weekly
<MarkDude> Its the general interest tech show
<MarkDude> Yay!
<MarkDude> Tom Merrit is a big Ubuntu supporter
<MarkDude> <hint> He is very open to Ubuntu folks reaching out to him <hint>
<MarkDude> STRONG supporter of Linux.
<MarkDude> If some Ubuntu folks go to TWIT studios he will treat you very nice- and allow a plug on the show
 * MarkDude would be willing to invite him (and other TWIT folks) to an Ubuntu Hour
<MarkDude> Prolly better tho - if someone else does it tho :)
<MarkDude> Think about it Ubuntu Hours being mentioned to future FOSS geeks. Just an idea. I can send an email on this and see who is willing to do it :)
<MarkDude> If no one, I can invite
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-05-12
<PLR9> Hi guys I have a problem with the bootloader I also used bootrepair but I get this code http://paste2.org/0PjUHmzk
<darthrobot> Title: [Paste2.org - Viewing Paste 0PjUHmzk]
<PLR9> please help me
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-05-13
<pleia2> miserable weather
<raevol> san diego is burning again
<raevol> http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Brush-Fire-Burns-near-4S-Ranch-Neighborhood-259098541.html
<darthrobot> Title: [Bernardo Fire Burns 300 Acres, Prompts Evacuations | NBC 7 San Diego]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-05-15
<nhaines> jono: I loved the Nintendo shirt yesterday.  :)
<nhaines> Nintendo games tend to be light, accessible, quick, and deep for those who explore them.  So I suspect you may find yourself with a Wii U in two or three years after all, once the little one starts playing.
<nhaines> akk: _o/
<akk> hi nhaines
<nhaines> How's your week so far?
<akk> Pretty good! How's yours?
<nhaines> Not bad!  I just got comissioned to do a 12,000 word Ubuntu magazine article.  So now I have something to do for the rest of the week.
<akk> Excellent! What's the article on?
<nhaines> Ubuntu 14.04 on ALL the things.
<akk> My project of the week is writing a python wrapper around gphoto2 to integrate with my raspberry pi wildlife camera.
<nhaines> Ooh, that sounds like fun.
<akk> I'm in a big refactoring mess right now but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
<akk> I'm informed by the spousal unit that it's time to watch a movie. Seeya!
<nhaines> yay movie!
<rww> I am happy to announce that elky will actually belong in this channel in a couple of weeks :D
<rww> (visa got approved yesterday)
<nhaines> yay!  :D
<rww> well, delivered
<rww> so yes, will have her over here before the month's out
<rww> nhaines: also, i'm switching to t-mobile :P
<nhaines> Yay, fantastic savings on the nation's most economical carrier!  :P
<nhaines> rww: did I ever send you a referral email?  I think if you switch and by a device in-store (and Nexus 5 is a winner) I get money.  :P
<nhaines> On a TOTALLY UNRELATED note, ChunkHost is a fantastic VPS host with Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04 available and everybody should try it using this link: https://chunkhost.com/r/nhaines :P
<darthrobot> [R: chunkhost.com] Title: [SSD VPS Server, Fast Cloud Server, VPS Server, Cloud Hosting From ChunkHost]
<rww> nhaines: oh shoot, i forgot about that
<nhaines> Boo  :P
<nhaines> Oh well, what's far more important is that you're saving money.
<nhaines> You can just paypal me the $25.  :P
<rww> nhaines: already ordered the phones and stuff, but if i see a place to refer when i create my t-mobile website account thing and activate i'll do it
<rww> nhaines: not bitcoin :P?
<nhaines> Bitcoin also accepted.  :P
<nhaines> rww: what phones did you get?
<rww> nhaines: nexus 5, obviously
<rww> (x2, since i didn't feel like calling up again when she gets here)
<nhaines> Easy to root and then dual-boot Ubuntu.
<nhaines> Once Ubuntu is worth running on the Nexus 5, this will be a plus.
<rww> maybe i will do this before she gets here as a prank
<nhaines> ha  :)
<nhaines> Also I saw some photos of the Clock app running with the new header design.  I'm skeptical of the SDK stuff but looked slick.
<nhaines> Huh, ironically, this 12,000 word article will be the last one I write with the help of Ubuntu One file storage.
<nhaines> It is ironic because I'm writing about Ubuntu 14.04 on 14.04 but U1 is already EOL.
<jyo> nhaines: haha. IPv6 via a he.net tunnel.
<jyo> nhaines: wrt chunkhost
<nhaines> jyo: it's handy, right?
<rww> native IPv6 is handier :P
<jyo> Fairly certain peer1 has native IPv6...
<nhaines> I'm not using IPv6 anyway.  :P
<jyo> Might be possible for them to anchor a single tunnel and distribute /64s out of the routed /48 but again, no idea about their setup and their lack of "high end routers to handle it".
<elky> it's a shame i read this channel
<rww> it's the fuzz, everyone scram
<nhaines> cheese it!
<rww> ^
<elky> hehe
<rww> little does elky know i'm actually putting FIREFOX OS on it
<rww> wait does firefox os work on nexus 5's
<elky> i would be up for trying that
<jyo> to get the DRM, right? </troll>
<nhaines> rww: only in so far as it "works" anyway.
<rww> jyo: nah, I want directory tiles for real estate company on my phone
<elky> this is important to internets everywhere
<rww> anyways
 * rww spins up FTL
<nhaines> Hopefully Canonical will patch in their own ads on their Ubuntu packages.
<rww> oh
<rww> nhaines: have you played Universe Sandbox
<nhaines> I'd play FTL too except I have a novel to write.  :P
<rww> it is in humble thing and idk whether to buy it
<nhaines> I have.  It's probably really awesome for someone a tiny bit more interested in science.
<nhaines> It's fun though.
<rww> alrighty
 * rww spins up bitcoin-qt too
<nhaines> heh
<jyo> hooray for FTL
<elky> i have actually won ftl twice this week. it has been a good week
<jyo> Really hope their LEGO set gets approved.
<nhaines> lies!  nobody wins FTL.
 * rww frowns at bitcoin-qt
<jyo> Blow up enemy ship while mantis team is transported over. That *is* the key to vitory.
<nhaines> jyo: it's the key to something.
<rww> i've done that so many times :(
<nhaines> Last game I transported my mantis team over to that anaerobic race's ship.  Didn't last long.  :(
<elky> i love the hacking thing
<elky> it's really fun hacking their hacking
<rww> yo dawg
<elky> and watching their hacking drone 'splode
 * ianorlin finds the noblenote interface a little clunky
<pleia2> nhaines: I have 2 more 14.04 presentations coming up (saturday and tuesday), I could use more meat for my slides, happen to have yours together yet? :)
<jyo> pleia2: You're alive! ;)
<pleia2> jyo: mostly :)
<nhaines> pleia2: I'm either going to write my presentation slides tonight/tomorrow or next week, depending on how this article outline shapes up.
<pleia2> nhaines: ok, I'll work on beefing up my slides here then
<pleia2> good luck with the article :)
<nhaines> pleia2: yeah.  Got ambushed with a request for a 12K word article due on the 20th.  So... everything's scrambled.  :)
<nhaines> And thanks!
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> Also I'll be talking about the Orange Box cloud.  :)
<pleia2> I think canonical should give me one to show off
<nhaines> +1
<nhaines> Canonical managed to spin up 380 hosts with 75,000 VMs in 6.5 hours.
<nhaines> Then they kept going and spun up another 25,000 VM.  As sabdfl mentioned, the silicon was slightly over committed by that point.  So AMD gave them another couple units and on 576 hosts they managed to spin up 168,000 VMs over a weekend.
<nhaines> The time to deploy 75,000 VMs beat the previous world record speed by an hour.
<nhaines> So yay OpenStack and Juju!
<pleia2> :)
<ianorlin> why do you need that many?'
<nhaines> Why *don't* you need that many?
<ianorlin> it would be excessive for download mirrors for lxqt
<nhaines> MAAS now supports CentOS and Microsoft Windows too.
<ianorlin> sorry LXQt
<pleia2> well, these are marketed toward businesses, not basements ;)
<nhaines> So you can just tell your MaaS server "I want Sharepoint" and it'll install Windows and Sharepoint automatically.
 * ianorlin has Stop menu in his LXQt VM
<pleia2> hm, I used to be able to close applications by doing a bottom swipe and pulling up a menu from a little transparent box that came up, is that gone?
<pleia2> where "used to" is like 2 weeks ago
<pleia2> on my tablet
<nhaines> pleia2: yeah, they yanked out HUD.
<pleia2> :(
<pleia2> how am I supposed to close applications?
<nhaines> They might get around to putting it back in eventually, some day, maybe.  No one's really working on it and no one involved in removing it is very concerned.
<nhaines> You're not supposed to close applications, as far as I can tell.
<pleia2> that would be fine, except the tablet goes wonky sometimes and closing stuff is the only option aside from rebooting
<pleia2> maybe when it's more mature, like android...
<pleia2> but even android has a kill apps option stuffed in settings somewhere
<nhaines> In the meantime, long-pressing on an application (any application) on the Apps scope will bring up little Xes.  And you can tap those.
<pleia2> hooray! thanks
<nhaines> You're welcome.  :)
<pleia2> ooh, the volume keys work now
 * pleia2 looks at 64 unread threads in ubuntu-phone folder
<rww> hehe
<rww> lot of traffic on that list, indeed
<pleia2> it ran out of battery while I was on vacation and the time reset to 1969, it was fun
 * ianorlin found a time when it said 1969 bug in pcmanfm that is fixed now
<pleia2> I still can't log onto my wifi network since the dialog times out before I finish
<nhaines> pleia2: that's what you get for having an unnecessarily complex wifi password!
<nhaines> Connect your tablet via USB to your computer and run phablet-network.
<pleia2> nhaines: aha, I'll give that a try :)
<nhaines> pleia2: they both use Network Manager, so phablet-network simply copies your connection file over.  :)
<pleia2> I noticed, I don't use NM
 * pleia2 has moved over to her laptop where she does
<pleia2> nhaines: you're totally my hero tonight
<nhaines> Reading the ubuntu-phone mailing list paid off!  :D
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> pleia2: there's still time to learn to write Ubuntu SDK apps and become an Ubuntu Pioneer!
<nhaines> Just think of the free t-shirt!
<jyo> rww: How many licks does it take to get to the tootsie pop center of Firefox's EME sandbox center?
<jyo> s/sandbox center/sandbox/
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-05-16
<Roguehorse> jyo: It's one way to attack the animal, however content providers have been forever trying to restrict their media (at least since the modern digital age). Back in the day it was much easier for us to record our LP's onto cassetes for our friends.
<rww> jyo: heh
<rww> I'm still trying to figure out how they're hoping to make a functional DRM system that lives in an open source sandbox and isn't trivial to code around
<rww> i mean, i grok that no DRM systems actually work, but still
<nhaines> I was advising someone who was asking about DRM on ebooks or PDFs or whatever the other day.
<nhaines> "As far as piracy goes, DRM only (and I mean only) hurts honest, paying customers. MOBI and EPUB files can be opened and edited, and the copy protection on AZW files is trivial to break. What you end up with is a situation where a DRM-broken, illicit copy can be read, edited, traded, borrowed, and shared on any device with any number of people freely and without restriction, but the DRM-encumbered file costs money and can only be used on one d
<nhaines> I suggested it wasn't their job to make sure their readers have to buy a new copy if their Nook breaks and they decide to go for a Kindle, or vice versa.
<rww> cut off at "can only be used on one d"
<nhaines> and can only be used on one device forever. Guess which one is worth more to the reader? Spoiler  alert: it's the DRM-free one."
<akk> You were advising someone who wanted to publish something using DRM?
<akk> I'm always hesitant to buy ebooks (or anything else) with DRM, unless I'm pretty sure I know how to break it.
<akk> I'd be happy to pay for non-DRM epub ebooks.
<akk> (I guess that doesn't add anything, I'm just agreeing with what you said)
<nhaines> Yeah, I said that worrying about plagiarism or piracy was a massive waste of time.
<akk> I have a PDF copy of the book I wrote because somebody who downloaded a pirated copy gave me a link to it.
<akk> The publisher never gave me a copy of the official released PDF.
<nhaines> I ocassionally format ebooks in EPUB format for authors as an occassional side gig, and I always advise against DRM.
<nhaines> Ha!
<akk> I was very amused when somebody showed up on #gimp and was talking about how they'd downloaded this gimp book.
<nhaines> haha
<akk> Sort of flattered, actually, I didn't know anybody was pirating my book 'til then. :)
<nhaines> Yeah, that's when you know you made it  :)
<ianorlin> pirating your own book doesn't count though]
<nhaines> Someone posted some site with TONS of ebooks for download.  Apparently a bunch of the posts actually just linked to authors' Smashwords pages or whatever.
<akk> But really, is someone pirating the PDF that different from them getting it from a library?
<nhaines> Not according to Mark Twain!
<akk> Sure, it's limited time from a library, but they can always check it out again and again.
 * ianorlin just imagined a sailboat wtih books inside it
<nhaines> I advised the author who was upset that he should write a very polite letter saying that you were flattered but disapproved and would prefer the download was replaced with a link to the Amazon title page, and provide a Amazon Associates referral link.
<nhaines> Actually I think I heard of an ebook sharing forum that--when an author came on to discuss their work--would remove all free download links, promote the author's library and ban anyone who reposted free links.
<nhaines> Which, you know, doesn't make facilitating illegal downloads *right*, but if you have a passionate community you may as well engage them and make that personal connection.  Sales went up.
<akk> I'm annoyed at how book readers aren't rebelling against DRM the way music listeners did.
 * ianorlin doesn't pay for things with drm
<nhaines> Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing page defaults to no DRM.
<nhaines> ianorlin: More like Digital Restrictions Management, amirite?
<ianorlin> yeah it just makes it a pain
<nhaines> I love Terry Pratchett, but I'll be damned if I'm rebuying 35 of his books so I can have them on my Kindle.
<nhaines> Except for Good Omens which I rebought on accident but kept because it's awesome.  :P
<akk> And then lose them again if you change platforms or if amazon decides to take them back.
<nhaines> Unfortunately I bought all the paperbacks in physical stores so I can't even do the Matchbook thing, which BTW is a fantastic idea.
<akk> What's Matchbook?
<nhaines> I've determined, though, that it basically never makes any sense for me to ever physically publish anything unless it's a computer book that I can charge $45 for.
<akk> I suspect if I publish any more books I'll self-publish with a place that does print-on-demand.
<nhaines> akk: if Amazon sells a physical and a Kindle version of the same title, publishers can link the titles and set a price of free, $0.99, $1.99, or $2.99 for anyone who bought the physical book from Amazon.
<ianorlin> I can understand realising ebooks once something goes out of print because reprints are really expensive
<nhaines> As long as the promotional price is under 50% of the physical price.
<nhaines> POD is cheap enough these days.
<nhaines> Except that Amazon will only pay you 60% of the list price.
<akk> Amazon is pretty evil. I should boycott them but ... I don't.
<nhaines> A $2.99 Kindle book will get you about $2.06 royalty on each sale.
<nhaines> Donno about evil.  They're very efficient.
<akk> I was just reading some articles this morning about how they strong-arm publishers into undercutting themselves.
<akk> Like, they'll hang onto a shipment for a month and not ship it out to customers to punish a publisher for not giving Amazon a better deal than everyone else.
<nhaines> I know a handful of people who make livings writing short stories and self-publishing them.  It's work, but it's pretty lucrative.
<nhaines> akk: yeah, that's shady.
<Roguehorse> Doesn't a lot of it just come down to who will be willing to pay the fee (knowing it supports the artist financially) or those willing to work to get the product for free?
<nhaines> Through traditional publishing you're lucky to get an 8% royalty for your first book.  The good news is that you'll get an advance that usually won't be earned out.  The bad news is... that's probably all you get.
<Roguehorse> sneaking into the movie or concert...same thing
<nhaines> Roguehorse: not necessarily.  When I played a lot of PC games I routinely bought a game and then immediately cracked it so I didn't have to swap out disks constantly.
<akk> Roguehorse: The sad thing about DRM is that paying the fee may get you the version that requires more work.
<nhaines> akk: precisely.
<Roguehorse> I understand the disk thing, did that myself a few times. However, did I make copies for all my friends so they didn't have to buy the game like I did? No
<akk> Roguehorse: What we'd like is a way to pay the fee, support the author, and in return get the more functional copy that works everywhere.
<akk> Not so we can copy it and illegally distribute it, but so that we can read it using a device and app that's comfortable to use.
<Roguehorse> But how can we guarantee someone won't abuse that?
<akk> You can't guarantee it with DRM either.
<nhaines> Roguehorse: there's no way to do that in any case.
<Roguehorse> No, it's their only solution right now
<akk> As nhaines said earlier, DRM only punishes the law-abiding person. Anyone else can easily get the book somewhere else without it.
<Roguehorse> Dead tree versions are hard to copy (but not impossible)
<nhaines> No they're not.  Throw it on a scanner, OCR it.
<nhaines> Put on Netflix or music and it's not even boring.
<Roguehorse> That's a lot of work
<akk> Yeah, there are two books in the local library that I really want to copy ... out of print, can't buy one of my own, at least not for anything near a reasonable price.
<akk> So we may need to do some dead-tree book copying.
<Roguehorse> how many people do you know are willing to go through all that?
<nhaines> There only needs to be one before it's a free PDF.
<akk> I find copying books extremely tedious.
<Roguehorse> true
<akk> I scanned a bunch of images from an old (enough to be public domain) book recently.
<Roguehorse> but, then we come back to our own use and sharing what we aren't supposed to
<akk> Legal, but it was a huge PITA and I only did it because the other available copies were crappy.
<nhaines> You're allowed to share any book for any amount of time for any reason.
<nhaines> (It's duplicating that's not kosher.)
<akk> nhaines: Only if it's a dead-tree book, of course. If it's a DRMed ebook you mostly can't share it at all.
<ianorlin> my brother actually scans things legally in a library
<akk> (unless you share the physical reader device along with it)
<Roguehorse> oh yeah, they've allowed scanning pages from books for decades
<akk> And if it's a DRMed ebook you mostly can't check it out from a library, either.
<nhaines> akk: at least Amazon Kindle allows lending.  :)  But for one week once time to any individual is sort of ridiculous.  :P
<Roguehorse> nhaines: I've never tried that
<akk> Yeah, I consider that not allowing lending.
<nhaines> akk: actually, the only ebooks the libraries around here support are DRMed.
<akk> My mom wanted to share books with me, but the restrictions made it not useful at all.
<nhaines> Pretty much.
<akk> nhaines: Have you ever tried to check out one of those DRMed ebooks from a library? Just try it, I challenge you.
<ianorlin> drm costs to implement and makes your book less valueable to consumers
<nhaines> akk: it was trivial.
<akk> I challenge you to: think of a specific book you want to check out, find it in a library available for checkout, and actually check it out.
<nhaines> akk: I even read a few pages.  :)
<ianorlin> I like using creative commons pdfs to test out pdf readers in development relases
<akk> I actually did manage it once. Every other time I've tried it, it's been impossible to find any book I remotely wanted to read that way.
<Roguehorse> my family still checks out childrens books for my son
<nhaines> akk: well, I was lucky that the book I wanted was available.  So that was a plus.
<Roguehorse> I chuckle
<akk> And the one time I managed it, every few days it would mysteriously disappear from my device and I'd have to spend 45 minutes
<akk> re-checking it out, then painstakingly trying to get back to where I was in the book
<nhaines> Roguehorse: oh, that's a fantastic way to read books.  Children's books are extortionate.  :P
<akk> (which was hard because their proprietary reader app didn't have a working "go to page number" let alone "remember position" or "remember bookmark")
<nhaines> akk: on Kindle it was easy.  the book is even *still* on my device, although it says "loan expired".
<Roguehorse> nhaines: : )
<akk> This was on android, using ... /me looks up the app name
<Roguehorse> nhaines: ?? and still readable?
<akk> Blio
<nhaines> Roguehorse: presumably not.  But all the metadata is still there.  I could either check it out again or purchase it from Amazon.
<Roguehorse> Ah
<ianorlin> Why do I sort of want to realease an ebook under a liscense that only prohibits distributing it with drm
<akk> nhaines: What library? I'm curious. I've tried it with Mountain View, San Jose, Santa Clara county, Burbank, LA County and Glendale.
<nhaines> My friend's kid couldn't read after Kindergarten.  I made his parents buy a phonics series, then hit the library and the dollar bookstore alternately.  He reads superbly in both English and German, a little less than a year later.
<akk> Oh, and Cupertino.
<nhaines> akk: Orange County Public Library System.
<akk> Ah, never tried that one.
<pleia2> nhaines: that's pretty impressive, the phonics stuff was before my time so it took me until 3rd grade
<Roguehorse> It was too long ago for me to remember - I feel old
<nhaines> Donno, I taught myself to read with books on tape by the time I was 4.
<pleia2> I'm dyslexic, so I had a pretty rough time of it (fortunately I went to a good school so they got me on track after a few years)
<ianorlin> I think I was reading in first grade but don't quite remember
<ianorlin> my handwriting is still really hard to read
<Roguehorse> good deal, my niece has that issue. The school system fumbled it for a long time
<nhaines> Luckily, he would enjoy working out words once he got into it... he likes figuring out puzzles.  So it'd be a mix of reading to him with a finger under the word, making him read, and trading off.
<pleia2> nhaines: puzzles were the key to my success too :)
<Roguehorse> My son just wants to be able to type his own searches into our tablet
<pleia2> I think some brains just work differently, it's all good as long as the student gets some kind of attention they need
<Roguehorse> pleia2: +1
<nhaines> ianorlin: I need to work with him on handwriting some more.  I keep telling him there's *no* easier way to write letters than the way I do it.
 * ianorlin wonders how young people are before they start using command line
<nhaines> "If there were a lazier way, *I* would be doing it, and that'd what I'd teach you instead."
<rww> typing
<rww> :P
 * pleia2 pulls up a rocking chair and tells ianorlin about how her first computer only had a command line
<Roguehorse> ianorlin: tablet, and point-and-click
<akk> pleia2: And only a line editor! None of this newfangled vi stuff!
<rww> pleia2: ps i found a new person for next month's ubuntu hour
<rww> pleia2: her name is elky you may have heard of her
<rww> (she's flying in on the 27th, we have an appointment at the courthouse on the 28th :3)
<pleia2> akk: mine was DOS so it came with WordPerfect 4 or something
<pleia2> rww: AAAAH I AM SO EXCITED :D
<rww> ikr :D
<Roguehorse> Commodore64 and  a casette drive
<nhaines> What *really* annoyed me is when he'd read a word like Wind (means "wind", sounds like "vint") and he'd pronounce the "d" wrong, I'd correct him, he'd repeat it wrong, but when the ELECTRONIC PEN said it right, he'd repeat it right.  :P
<pleia2> nhaines: must be your accent
<elky> i'm not even in the country yet and he's already volunteering me for something?
<pleia2> elky: just an attendee, don't worry, you don't have to run anything for another month
<elky> lol
<rww> when's the next election?
<rww> b/c she's running in that too
<elky> oh gods
<pleia2> lol
<rww> (not kidding, i'm going to bribe her or something)
<rww> MOAR CANDIDATES
<pleia2> october or so
<nhaines> pleia2: that'd be one thing.  But /d/ vs. /t/ is another.  Although there was one time where he did get upset over "ErdnuÃbutter."  I kept covering more of the word for him to try to sound out until we got down to "Erd" and I would say /ert/.
 * rww ponders ErdnuÃbutter
<nhaines> And finally he got upset and said "Where's the 'tuh'?"
<nhaines> And I explained that final d in a word or syllable is unvoiced.
<nhaines> Which is not how I explained it.  :P
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> rww: Erd is "earth", NuÃ is "nut", Butter is "butter", ErdnuÃ is peanut, and ErdnuÃbutter is peanut butter, which is an import luxury food in Germany. :P
<rww> oic
<pleia2> I was gonna say, they don't have peanut butter in europe
<pleia2> I remember when we were at UDS in Brussels and we went to a chocolate shop, one of the people with us "Do you have anything with peanut butter?" store clerk was like "AMERICANS!"
<nhaines> haha
<pleia2> "and no, have some hazelnut"
 * akk boggles
<rww> hehe
<pleia2> then we got some waffles lit on fire and drank a lot, I enjoyed Brussels
<akk> ooh, I never got waffles lit on fire
<akk> though I did have lots of very excellent non-burning waffles.
<pleia2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_QgJb6CowQ
<darthrobot> Title: [Flaming waffles in Brussels - YouTube]
<nhaines> Likewise, Erd is "earth", Beere (sounds like: 'BAY-ruh")is "berry", and Erdbeere is "strawberry".
<pleia2> mmm Erdbeere
<nhaines> pleia2: I took Knott's boysenberry preserves with me to Germany.  It was a big hit.
<akk> haha, I just showed the video to d and said "I went to the wrong restaurant"
<nhaines> haha
<akk> d: "What difference would it make?"
<akk> me: "It's cool! It's FLAMING!"
<akk> d: Oh. *eyeroll*
<pleia2> yeah, it was mostly just cool :)
<rww> or hot
<pleia2> they poured some kind of alcohol on it to get it to flame up, but after it mostly burns off and you cover it in cream and berries you can't taste any different really
<Roguehorse> no PB in Europe? Really?
<akk> I'd take hazelnut or almond butter over PB any day ... but I think of PB as a cheap ubiquitous stable.
<akk> The others are exotic expensive treats.
<nhaines> Roguehorse: yup.  Not in a normal market or it's very expensive.
<Roguehorse> When I went to China in 04 we went to McD and there was no beef available. It was weird.
<ianorlin> I think that varies a lot
<nhaines> Everyone in Germany drives BMWs and Mercerdes, too.  Because they're domestic.  :P
 * ianorlin actaully hasn't been overseas
<pleia2> nhaines: taxis too!
<nhaines> pleia2: yes!
<nhaines> German McDonalds has real bread.
 * ianorlin is to hot to go into detail about how my mom went crazy and bought a bmw
<Roguehorse> any Opal's still on the road over there?
<pleia2> McDonalds does regional things even stateside, during the season they even have lobster rolls some years in Maine :)
<nhaines> Also maybe beer.  I think we drove through.  We wouldn't have stopped there but we were going to be late to see Terminator 3.  Which was not dubbed by Arnold, which was weird.  :)
<akk> Lobster rolls in McD's? wow.
<Roguehorse> pleia2: neat!
<pleia2> ianorlin: plenty of time, I never left the country (not even Canada) until I was 27
<akk> pleia2: You're definitely making up for lost time.
 * pleia2 has two more continents to cross off her list
<nhaines> I'll say.
<nhaines> Some time I need to have another currywurst from a street vendor.
<pleia2> antarctica is taking some planning, I'm thinking a cruise
<nhaines> Or DÃ¶nerkebab!
<nhaines> pleia2: parasail.
 * pleia2 dresses warmly
<pleia2> my husband doesn't want to go because he thinks it will be too intense
<pleia2> plus only small ships go down there and he gets seasick
<Roguehorse> pleia2: Yeah, not for me.
 * ianorlin wonders if people go who get carsick text and drive less
<nhaines> pleia2: just tell him after the third or fourth time his stomach will be empty so, like, after that it won't hardly even be a thing.
<elky> someone just started a countdown in hours
<pleia2> nhaines: haha
<nhaines> Next time I go on an Amazon spree I need to remember to generate affiliate links that I use myself.
<akk> They won't let you do that ... unless you fool them by making another account not tied to the affiliate account.
<akk> But it's violating the TOS so if they find out they might cancel the affiliate account or something.
<akk> Here, use mine. :)
<nhaines> Ha  :)
<nhaines> I don't think it's against the TOS.  I'll have to check.
<akk> It was last time I looked, and they sent out something specifically saying you couldn't buy using your own account.
<nhaines> I mean, I *do* use the account for legitimate trying to convince other people to buy.  I have 5 clicks this month!
<akk> Of course using a friend's account is perfectly legal ... not sure about if it's a spouse or something.
<akk> They'd probably notice if it shipped to the same address.
<nhaines> akk: Qualifying Purchases exclude, and we will not pay advertising fees on any of, the following: any Product purchased through a Special Link by you or on your behalf, including Products you purchase through Special Links for yourself, friends, relatives, or associates (e.g., personal orders, orders for your own use, and orders placed by you for or on behalf of any other person or entity);
<nhaines> Rats.  Well, good thing I've always forgotten to do that then.  :)
<Roguehorse> The affiliate programs are "really" tight about what's accepted and what's not (and they do follow up)
<nhaines> With good reason.
<nhaines> I just don't link to Amazon without doing a referral link anymore.  They money's earmarked for *someone*.  May as well be me.
<Roguehorse> I did a few books from Amazon. Handy to have them on all my devices. I have so many now I have yet to go through though...
<nhaines> My friend's kid saw my Juju shirt and asked me about the "Skynet" step.  Then I had to explain Terminator 2 to him.
<nhaines> It turns out it's really difficult to explain to a 7yo why people wouldn't trust computers infiltrating every aspect of human life.
<nhaines> We watched pretty much the only appropriate scene from the movie without getting parental permission to watch the entire thing: the scene where the T-1000 morphs through the barred gate but his gun gets stuck.
<nhaines> We'll watch the whole thing some time but having finished Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, Ghostbusters is probably next on the list.
<akk> You couldn't just explain it like "evil robots"?
<nhaines> akk: he's not afraid of robots.
<akk> We just watched Ghostbusters again. It doesn't hold up as well as I thought it would.
<nhaines> LIES!
<akk> Well, see what you think, maybe you won't agree.
<akk> It wasn't awful.
<nhaines> I had the same problem trying to explain why GLaDOS singing was meaningful.  He hadn't seen 2001 and doesn't understand why a talking computer would be scary because he talks to Google Now constantlly.
<akk> The Terminator movies hold up very well, though.
<akk> Well, Hal isn't scary because he talks, he's scary because of what he's trying to do.
<Roguehorse> Try War Games
<akk> Oh, yeah, I should watch that again.
<nhaines> Yes, but that's based on the notion of a sentient computer when most people had never seen one.  I wonder if TRON makes any sense nowadays either.
<akk> Of course parts of it were always cheesy.
<Roguehorse> I just finished Jobs the other day. Good flick
<akk> Tron never made any sense to begin with. :)
<nhaines> I think we watched the Slimer scene from Ghostbusters and he wasn't scared.  So that's a go.
<akk> Scenes like that are still funny.
<Roguehorse> I tried The Matrix a couple days ago, still too predictable
<akk> And the ghost that eats everything in sight.
<nhaines> When he was 6 if he got scared he'd run and hide in his closet.
<akk> I always thought the Matrix was pretty silly, the whole energy thing never made any sense.
<Roguehorse> nhaines: Ah man!
<akk> I was probably about 6-7 when Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was my big scary movie.
<akk> Stuff like getting stuck in the chocolate tube or blowing up into a big bubble.
<nhaines> akk: the room with the bubbles and the fan are hardcore.
<pleia2> akk: the worst part about everyone watching Ghostbusters again is now *everyone* is in on why we call the OpenStack gatekeeper software we use Zuul ;)
<nhaines> I went fake skydiving last year and I managed to straighten out and launch up past the wind chamber and into the next segment with the fans.  That movie was all I could think of.
<akk> pleia2: heh, yeah. And the lines at the beginning of mozilla xul files.
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> pleia2: if you take apart a Firefox XUL file, it sas "There is no data, there is only XUL."  :)
<pleia2> nice
<Roguehorse> Oh geez
<Roguehorse> brb.......Big Bang Theory is on : )
<jyo> rww: Are you saying we'll actually have a real election next year? :O
<nhaines> Ha.
<nhaines> pleia2: how many pizzas did you do for your release party and how many people did you anticipate?
<pleia2> nhaines: eleven 18" pizzas cut into 12 slices, anticipated 50 people
 * ianorlin thinks he will be getting up at 4:30 on the day of the installfest and watch formula 1 in monaco then drive the 91 down to the 57
<nhaines> Awesome, thanks.  :)  How'd that work out foodwise?
<nhaines> ianorlin: please email me if you're going to be there.  I haven't gotten any volunteer confirmations.  :)
<pleia2> worked out well, I was worried it would be too much :)
<nhaines> Just one confirmation, I mean.
<nhaines> pleia2: that's good.  :)
<nhaines> Also there's no such thing!
<pleia2> also brought along tortilla chips and salsa (spent a total of about $10 on those at costco) and 120 cookies
<pleia2> 2 trays of 60 cookies, I could have done with half that
<nhaines> We're going to have coffee and donuts.  So pizza will be on top of that.
<nhaines> Except that I'm not paying for pizza, so let's hope the reimbursement request works out.  :P
<pleia2> yeah, canonical covered pizza, I got the chips and cookies, venue got drinks (non-alcoholic)
 * pleia2 seeks dinner
<ryaxnb9> release party?
<nhaines> Also Papa Johns has a "Residence/Business/University/Military" radio button, and when I said "University" it changed to dropdowns and I just picked California, CSUF, McCarthy Hall, and I just had to put in the room number.  This makes me ridiculously happy.
<rww> jyo: that's my secret plan!
<nhaines> Ooh, these are expensive enough I might be able to use a smaller pizza joint that has far better pizza.  Yay.
<nhaines> Hmm, maybe not.  Well, we'll see.
<nhaines> Aww, they don't deliver anyway.  Shame.
<nhaines> rww: did you know that IPv6 is far more secure than IPv4?
<ianorlin> nhaines I want to know how
<nhaines> ianorlin: yes, it's because nobody understands how IPv6 works, so no one can hack you.
<grantbow> anyone in Sonoma or Marin? My brother in law just moved to San Rafael.
<grantbow> I just responded to the email question on our list.
<Roguehorse> Hey Grant, what's going on?
<grantbow> list traffic. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu-us-ca Info Page]
<grantbow> :-)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-05-18
<pleia2> nhaines: my extended presentation from today: http://princessleia.com/presentations/1404-whats-new-felton.pdf (and .odp)
<darthrobot> Content type: [application/pdf] Size: [94938]
<nhaines> pleia2: thanks!
<nhaines> I'm writing about the history of Ubuntu.  Starting with AT&T relicensing System 7 and the creation of MINIX.  :P
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> 12,000 words doesn't write itself!
<nhaines> But I think it'll be good to do a origins-golden age-Unity style recap of Ubuntu history, then talk about all the awesome stuff in 14.04, then talk about the future and such.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> my audiences were all linux folk, so they know about Ubuntu
<pleia2> mostly Ubuntu users too
<nhaines> Yeah, the presentation I'll do (right after this article!) for the installfest will be aimed at people who don't know what Unix, Linux, or operating systems are.
<nhaines> I intend to insert extra slides so that you can just delete a few here or there and be ready for installfest, release party, general presentation, or whatever.  :D
<nhaines> Speaker notes will be useful, I think.
<pleia2> cool
<nhaines> Also maybe in the next couple days I'll find out if we're having pizza during the installfest.  :)
<nhaines> I've only had one person confirm that they're going to be there to help, so I'm hoping that increases during the week, too.  :P
<nhaines> (Emails are going out tomorrow.)
 * pleia2 nods
<nhaines> How did the talk go?
<pleia2> went well :)
<pleia2> the guys at felton are always so friendly, love presenting there
<nhaines> Yay.  :)
<nhaines> Had you spoken there recently?  I seem to recall it had been a while.
<pleia2> last spoke there 2 years ago
<nhaines> It's always good to have friendly venues.  :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-05-12
<pleia2> finally just used adb to set my ridiculous wifi password, so I was able to get on my wifi and upgrade my nexus7
<pleia2> things are looking really good :)
<akk> You did this because it doesn't keep an existing connection open when you connect with adb?
<pleia2> akk: I don't understand the question :\
<akk> Isn't there normally a gui on tablets for setting wifi password? I was trying to figure out why you'd need to use adb.
<pleia2> oh, there's a bug for long passwords https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1445630
<darthrobot> Title: [Bug #1445630 âCan't connect to Wifi network secured with long PS...â : Bugs : Canonical System Image]
<pleia2> so it doesn't work through the gui
<akk> ah
<pleia2> on most devices I just tether through my phone for a minute so I can grab the wifi password in email and copy/paste, but that doesn't work either https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454416
<darthrobot> [R: bugs.launchpad.net] Title: [Bug #1454416 âWiFi connect dialog does not allow pasting of pass...â : Bugs : unity8 package : Ubuntu]
<pleia2> so adb was my only option
<ianorlin> I like how ethernet just works
<ianorlin> even with my like 10 year old pci card
<ianorlin> on a desktop I built last year
<ianorlin> althuogh showing better speedtests than other people with that is a little rude
<akk> Yeah, it's sad seeing the new trend toward laptops with no wired ethernet.
<akk> For ubuntu/debian installs sometimes that's been the only option for me.
<ianorlin> also then you can't set up bridge utils from a working laptop with wifi and plug an ehternet cord to a working laptop with wifi if it needs the stupid broadcom blob
<ianorlin> it actully worked
<akk> Right, exactly.
<akk> It's still all too common to have laptops where the wifi doesn't work right in the installer.
<ianorlin> I keep an ancient usb wifi that is b/g around because it works with kernel
<akk> I just put a couple of usb wifi dongles in my laptop bag after a vacation where I had no net access
<akk> because the latest linux driver for my broadcom chip couldn't talk to the hotel's WEP (who uses WEP these days? answer: hotels in the Utah boonies)
<ianorlin> I had the broadcom driver flood my ttys with stupid messages for several months until an update fixed it
<akk> At that hotel, attempting to connect to the WEP wifi turned off the chip at the level where rfkill said it was both hard and soft blocked
<akk> but couldn't un-block it
<akk> and even rebooting didn't fix that, it was still rfkill blocked
<akk> but I finally tried rebooting into a distro with an earlier kernel, and that unblocked it (it still didn't connect, though)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-05-13
<nhaines> pleia2: today you learned that 'phablet-network' just shoves your active Network Manager connection data to your Ubuntu device.  :)
<pleia2> nhaines: I only have adb installed on my desktop (I keep my laptops very slim), which doesn't have wifi settings, so I just logged in with phablet-shell and edited the NM files directly
 * ianorlin thinks of a display manager
<pleia2> wily likes debian https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/16984461254/sizes/l
<darthrobot> Title: [All sizes | Wily shows off the Jessie party hat! | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
<pleia2> tonight should be fun :)
<DonkeyHotei> ?
<pleia2> having an ubuntu hour and debian dinner+jessie release party in sf
<pleia2> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/3099-ubuntu-hour-san-francisco/
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu Hour San Francisco | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<ianorlin> http://brendanperrine.com/screenshots/rainbowtempmonitor.png wow lxqt allows some silly things
<darthrobot> Content type: [image/png] Size: [5373]
<pleia2> nice :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-05-14
<pleia2> ubuntu hour :D https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/16999064523/sizes/l
<darthrobot> Title: [All sizes | Wily at his first #UbuntuHour! | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
<nhaines> Looks like a success!
<nhaines> But that might just be the strawberry frappÃ© talking.
<ianorlin> yay
<ianorlin> although one thing about moinmoin I don't like is when you click preview then test that your link works and don't open it in a new tab.
<nhaines> I always just middle-click anything I want to be in a new tab.
<Roguehorse> pleia2: Cool photo!
<Roguehorse> One of these days I'll make a table sign for EBLUG...we talk about it almost every meeting...just haven't done it
<nhaines> elky: how's the massive meeting meta-analysis maturing?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-05-16
<Roguehorse> A cool stats page https://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/
<darthrobot> Title: [Index of /archive/squid_reports]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-05-17
<philipballew> Linux Users Group of Tijuana Mexico (yes I know this is not our turf)  monthly meeting is underway.
<philipballew> We're talking abut uptime
<DonkeyHotei>  17:22:45 up  4:09,  6 users,  load average: 0.31, 0.36, 0.49
<philipballew> DonkeyHotei, I prefer uptime -p
<philipballew> its prettier.
<DonkeyHotei> up 4 hours, 20 minutes
<DonkeyHotei> meh
<nhaines> nhaines@tethys:~â« uptime -p
<nhaines> up 9 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 10 minutes
<philipballew> nhaines, Have you ever tried updating?
<philipballew> I hear its fun.
<nhaines> Yes, I ran updates last night.
<philipballew> no kernel updates for you?
<nhaines> Not currently needed.
<philipballew> soon when all are running 4, updates with reboot with be needed
<philipballew> *wont
<nhaines> There's more work to it than that, but I'll be looking forward to that.
<Roguehorse> 22:09:02 up 9 days,  2:49,  5 users,  load average: 0.35, 0.38, 0.65
<nhaines>  22:20:12 up 2 days,  8:21,  3 users,  load average: 0.57, 0.55, 0.50
<nhaines> I try to shut down at least every other day.
<ianorlyn> I shut donw a lot because kernele upgrades a lot on devlopment version
<ianorlyn> or other low level stuff
<nhaines> Dev versions are for virtual machines.  :)
<ianorlyn> I do both
<ianorlyn> I run vms of the dev release on the dev release
<nhaines> devception.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-05-16
<nhaines> akk: I have a question about Apress royalty reporting when you have some time. :)
<akk> Sure, PM me.
<nhaines> Thanks!
<pleia2> meeting in ~5 minutes
<nhaines> Ooh, I finished building my own Puritine container just in time.  Now all the desktop app icons on my tablet work, and also I can stop wasting time on that and get stuff done.  :)
<nhaines> Plus, I took my guitar out of the closet and tuned it.  All the strings were down a half step.  Now back in the closet for another 7 years!
 * nhaines will learn to play some day.
<nhaines> Meeting time!
<nhaines> #startmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting started Mon May 16 02:00:23 2016 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<nhaines> #chair nhaines pleia2 ianorlin
<darthrobot`> Current chairs: ianorlin nhaines pleia2
<nhaines> Welcome to the Ubuntu California LoCo meeting for May 15th.
<nhaines> Today's agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/16May15
<darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/16May15 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
<nhaines> Are there any events that are being planned at the moment?  (We'll get to release parties soon.)
 * ianorlin is not currently planning any
<nhaines> #topic Announcements
<pleia2> nothing from me here eitehr
<nhaines> The Ubuntu Online Summit wrapped up 10 days ago.
<nhaines> It was a fun UOS and there was a lot discussed.  Ubuntu 16.04 LTS put a lot of technolgies into place that are going to build the last stages of convergence.
<nhaines> Tons of plans and roadmaps were revealed, and you can see a track summary session held by all the track leads here: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22691/track-summaries/
<darthrobot`> Title: [Track Summaries - | The Summit Scheduler]
<nhaines> And you can also view replays of all of the sessions as well.
<nhaines> Are there any other announcements at this time?
<nhaines> Okay then, on to our first agenda item.
<nhaines> #topic 16.04 Release Parties
<pleia2> so, we haven't had any yet
<nhaines> \o/
<pleia2> I couldn't find a venue on release day here in San Francisco, and then had to postpone until I have more time to organize
<pleia2> I don't have time yet, but I hope to get something set up for July or so
<ianorlin> pleia2 good idea
<pleia2> July is when 16.04.1 comes out, which prompts all the upgrades from 14.04, kind of like a 2nd release day ;)
<nhaines> And now things like the Ubuntu Software Store actually work.  :)
<pleia2> hah, right
<pleia2> hopefully we'll know more about the usb sticks for 16.04 release too
<pleia2> there was never an announcement that they were available for locos to request
<pleia2> (no word on dvd availability either, but there were murmurs about them dropping them entirely)
<nhaines> Also they're still not available in the Canonical Store.
<pleia2> yeah, I saw someone complain about that the other day
<nhaines> The last I heard from Canonical, there would be no DVDs, and when I complained in an UOS session on video they didn't seem too sympathetic.  :)
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> if anyone has any downtown SF venue ideas, feel free to let me know (or reply on list to the thread where we're talking about it)
<nhaines> Although there was talk about producing DVD artwork anyway.
<pleia2> I'll work to reach out to folks and stuff once I have a bit more time
<pleia2> that's all from me
<nhaines> Sounds good.
<DonkeyHotei> why the requirement it be downtown?
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: it's where I live and I'm running the party
<pleia2> also good public transit from all over the bay
<pleia2> but mostly that I'm the one hauling everything over to the venue, so I don't want to go across town
<nhaines> Seems reasonable enough.  :)
<nhaines> No one's volunteered to run a party in SoCal and I'm overbooked, so at the moment there aren't any plans.
<nhaines> But if somebody *did* want to, they could let me know and I would try to show up with an Ubuntu tablet that does stuff.
<nhaines> Okay, so that's the end of our agenda.
<nhaines> #topic Other Business
<nhaines> Is there anything else anyone wanted to discuss?
<pleia2> nothing here
<nhaines> I'm going to start discussions with a local library about giving a couple of talks on Ubuntu and/or my Ubuntu book.
<DonkeyHotei> the new member moratorium?
<pleia2> great
<nhaines> So I'll keep everyone informed if that goes off.  :)
<nhaines> kicks off!
<nhaines> (I almost said "goes well.")
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: on launchpad?
<DonkeyHotei> yes
<DonkeyHotei> any updates?
<pleia2> we don't really use launchpad, so I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "new member moratorium"
<pleia2> it's just temporarily paused until some of the wiki stuff can be sorted
<pleia2> (our team is an open team, so spammers were joining to try to get access to the ubuntu wiki)
<nhaines> I will note that this seems to have stopped as far as the joining bit goes.
<pleia2> to be clear, people don't need to be part of the launchpad team, or need to know what launchpad is, to consider themselves a member of this team :)
<nhaines> Yes, anyone in California who wants to promote Ubuntu is welcome.  :)
<nhaines> pleia2: if you wanted to set the team back to open, I think it's probably safe to do so now.
<pleia2> nhaines: I'd rather not, it only stopped because we locked down the wiki even further, as soon as that lets up we'll have to re-mod and I don't have the time to hover over it right now
<nhaines> pleia2: I'm okay with this, too.
<DonkeyHotei> thirded
<lynorian> uh I hate the wiki spammers and can tell from pleia2 reaction at scale was harder
<pleia2> I'll make sure it's on my list when a long-term wiki solution presents itself
<lynorian> pleia2, yeah
<nhaines> We should also maybe discuss changing how Launchpad fits into LoCo membership.
<nhaines> A little later down the road, anyway.
 * pleia2 nods
<lynorian> do we need launchpad for say election of new leaders ?
<pleia2> lynorian: good point
<pleia2> and for the flyers and cd sleeves, which allows members direct committing to the repository rather than doing a merge request
<lynorian> can't we manual add people still?
<pleia2> yep
<nhaines> We do *not*, but we use it for such now.
<DonkeyHotei> we could just as easily use the mailing list roster for civs mails for elections
<pleia2> yeah, we could
<nhaines> We'll have to consider that carefully before making any policy changes.
<nhaines> Well, we'll have to see how the wiki drama pans out, too.
 * pleia2 nods
<nhaines> Any other comments before we wrap things up?
 * lynorian does not have anything
<pleia2> thanks for chairing :)
<nhaines> You're welcome.   :)
<nhaines> Okay then, that wraps up this week's meeting.  We'll see you all on May 29th for our next meeting!
<nhaines> #endmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting ended Mon May 16 02:40:16 2016 UTC.
<darthrobot`> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2016/ubuntu-us-ca.2016-05-16-02.00.moin.txt
<DonkeyHotei> memorial day weekend?
<nhaines> Maybe!
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, May 29th, at 7:00pm PDT (UTC -7:00) This channel is logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<nhaines> Post-meeting checklist finished!
<nhaines> pleia2: I'm out of town the weekend of June 12th, so I won't be able to chair.  And I'll probably still be driving during the meeting, at that.
<pleia2> nhaines: ok, I should be around
<nhaines> pleia2: thanks!
<toddc> Note I emailed to get 16.04 DVD's and was told that they will be usb drives but no ETA on shipping at this time
<pleia2> toddc: ah, who did you email?
<toddc> 1 sec looking email adress
<toddc> stefanie.danevoy@canonical.com    office manager
<nhaines> That's the person in charge of such requests.  :)
<nhaines> Maybe I should send another email out from the LoCo Council and ask for an update.
<toddc> we tried to order for azloco
<dax> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/mark-shuttle-worth-talks-ubuntu-phone-snappy ctrl-F TV
<darthrobot`> Title: [Mark Shuttleworth Talks Ubuntu Watches, Unity 8 and The Future of Free Software - OMG! Ubuntu!]
<dax> I guess the narrative changed from "we're focusing on phones first" ;)
<nhaines> dax: nah, moving the phones to snappy makes phones better--but makes all Ubuntu better, too.
<nhaines> The sooner everything is exactly one code base, the sooner everything benefits from every development again.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2017-05-15
<lyn||ian> nearly meeting time
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I wish this diff was less awful
<pleia2> but I'm sure nhaines will give us the cliff notes and we can dig in from there :)
<nhaines> All diffs are awful.  But that one is particularly pessimal.  :)
<pleia2> meeting time :)
<nhaines> Yup!  :)
<nhaines> #startmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting started Mon May 15 02:02:02 2017 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<nhaines> #chair pleia2 lyn||ian
<darthrobot`> Current chairs: lyn||ian nhaines pleia2
<nhaines> Welcome to the May 14th Ubuntu California LoCo meeting!
<nhaines> Tonight's agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/17May14
<darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/17May14 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
<nhaines> It's May, Ubuntu 17.04 has been released, and summer's coming up.  What's going on?  :)
<pleia2> alas, nothing up here so far
<nhaines> Nor down here.
<nhaines> Although the Ubuntu Hours in Pasadena continue happily, as I understand it.
<pleia2> our focus has mostly shifted to LTS for our releases parties
<dax> (I'm around but multitasking right now.)
<pleia2> we haven't had an Ubuntu Hour in some time either, but there is someone interested in picking up where I left off
<nhaines> That's good to hear!
<nhaines> Ubuntu Hours are good ways to sort of keep up to date with that's going on in the Ubuntu world.
<nhaines> #topic Announcements
<nhaines> Are there any other announcements this week?
 * lyn||ian does not have any
<pleia2> nothing from me either
<nhaines> Okay then, moving on to agenda items.
<nhaines> #topic Final discussion of leadership document amendments before proceeding to a vote
<nhaines> So on February 19th, I proposed an amendment to our leadership document.
<nhaines> There's been no discussion on the mailing list and therefore I assume 100% unanimous assent from the LoCo.  :P
<lyn||ian> nhaines, link now I do not remember any complaints to it
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1
<darthrobot`> Title: [Diff for "NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument" - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> the diff of changes
<pleia2> nhaines: care to summarize?
<nhaines> Our current document is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Leadership
<darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Leadership - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> And the proposed new document is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument
<darthrobot`> Title: [NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2017-February/002782.html
<darthrobot`> Title: [[Ubuntu-US-CA] Proposed amendment to the Ubuntu Californialeadership document.]
<pleia2> ^ Original email about the proposed changes from February
<nhaines> The amendments basically just change references to "leadership council" to "leadership role."
<dax> and make that one person instead of a three person council, obviously
<nhaines> The intention is to allow a single elected leader rather than an elected triumvirate, but also to allow a group or two or three leaders in the future if needed.
<dax> i read the document back in February, am in favor of it
<pleia2> I like increasing the flexibility here
<lyn||ian> yes increased flexibility sounds good
<pleia2> I think the trio served its purpose for a time, but we don't want to be locked into something forever if it's not working for us
<nhaines> There's some other silliness in the document, but I haven't changed any of that.  :)
<dax> If we had more activity I'd want more pondering of it, but until/unless that happens I think one caretaker/leader is fine.
<nhaines> pleia2: yes, and with the lack of leader nominations this last time around, I don't think the group is big enough to support three leaders.
 * pleia2 nods
<lyn||ian> yes nhaines
<nhaines> Which is different from whether or not we *need* three leaders, but I don't think we do, either.  :)
<nhaines> In any case, I wanted to give the group a last chance to comment before I called for a vote.
<nhaines> Once the vote on the changes is finished, we can make another call for nominations and do a leadership vote.
<pleia2> thank you for your work on this, sorry it's taken so long to finally talk about it :)
<pleia2> nothing else from me though
<nhaines> It's okay.  SCALE and then other things were in the way. :)
<nhaines> Let's vote on whether we should vote.
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> #vote Put proposed leadership document amendment to a LoCo-wide vote for ratification.
<darthrobot`> Please vote on: Put proposed leadership document amendment to a LoCo-wide vote for ratification.
<darthrobot`> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<nhaines> +1
<darthrobot`> +1 received from nhaines
<pleia2> +1
<darthrobot`> +1 received from pleia2
<dax> +1
<darthrobot`> +1 received from dax
<lyn||ian> +1
<darthrobot`> +1 received from lyn||ian
<nhaines> #endvote
<darthrobot`> Voting ended on: Put proposed leadership document amendment to a LoCo-wide vote for ratification.
<darthrobot`> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<darthrobot`> Motion carried
<pleia2> just going to toss a simple poll up in launchpad/
<pleia2> ?
<nhaines> That or we can send out a condor-seat ballot to the LoCo.
<pleia2> collecting emails for that is D:
<nhaines> That's okay though, because I'm not the one who has to do it.
<pleia2> and it's just a yes/no anyway, right?
<nhaines> Right.
<pleia2> so condorcet is not so great for it :)
<dax> last/only previous amendment was just approved by IRC vote. If you want a non-IRC thing I'd just LP it
<pleia2> well, I can set that up
<nhaines> dax: that's something I should've looked up then.
<nhaines> Do we want to LP it or should we just do an IRC vote next meeting?
<dax> pleia2: would LP be easy?
<pleia2> lp is easy and open to more people, irc is hard and I'll be on a train during the next meeting
<dax> I vote LP then
<nhaines> Let's vote on how we should vote for the vote.
<nhaines> Nah.  I think LP works.
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to set up lp poll for leadership document amendment radification
<darthrobot`> ACTION: pleia2 to set up lp poll for leadership document amendment radification
<nhaines> I find that typo especially pleasing and fitting for a California LoCo vote.  :)
<nhaines> pleia2: you'll be a California native yet!
<pleia2> hahahah
<pleia2> raaaad
<nhaines> Okay, I think everything's all set for that, then.
<nhaines> #topic Other business
<nhaines> Any other business this week?
 * lyn||ian has none
<pleia2> I don't think so
<nhaines> Okay, I think that's it for this meeting then.
<nhaines> Happy Mother's Day to any mothers and aunts and mentors out there!
<pleia2> thanks for chairing \o/
<nhaines> Our next meeting will be May 28th.
<nhaines> #endmeeting
<darthrobot`> Meeting ended Mon May 15 02:24:25 2017 UTC.
<darthrobot`> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2017/ubuntu-us-ca.2017-05-15-02.02.moin.txt
<nhaines> Now to squint at Jekyll some more.
<pleia2> true story: I looked up the proper spelling of amendment and then went to town on radification
<nhaines> Haha!
<nhaines> I had to double check that "assent" meant what I thought it did.  (It did.)
<pleia2> English is tough
<pleia2> especially the way we speak it
<nhaines> Relevant: http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/02/11
<darthrobot`> Title: [Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson for Feb 11, 1993 | Read Comic Strips at GoComics.com]
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> I was worried about needing to learn SASS/SCSS to convert my existing hand-made stylesheet to the Jekyll engine.
<nhaines> But then I learned that SASS is basically just the way I *think* CSS should work.
<nhaines> Also my modus operandus of "I don't have a good justification but I'm going to start writing all my blog posts in Markdown" last year turned out to be totally justified.
<nhaines> (Well, the real reason is that I thought I might move to Mezzanine but still had to post to LiveJournal in the meantime.  But in any case, it all worked out.)
<pleia2> would be nice if launchpad told me the date/time format it wants in the poll *shakesfist* and googles
<pleia2> heh https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/262205
<darthrobot`> Title: [Bug #262205 (polls) âDates in Launchpad polls should be easy to ...â : Bugs : Launchpad itself]
<pleia2> Won't Fix, sad
 * pleia2 metoos anyway
<pleia2> why would I every say something with lp is easy?
<pleia2> A poll cannot open less than 12 hours after it's created.
<pleia2> fml
<nhaines> Can't *open*?
<nhaines> I'm totally not going to be around for the June 11th meeting.
<dax> lol Launchpad
<pleia2> btw, %Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S
<dax> so, correct :P?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, May 28th, at 7:00pm PDT (UTC -7:00) This channel is logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<pleia2> ok, hopefully this works ...in 12 hours when it opens :P https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-california/+poll/2017-leadership-amendment
<darthrobot`> Title: [Ratification of the 2017 leadership document amendment : âUbuntu Californiaâ team]
<pleia2> I'll send out an email in the AM if it looks sane
<nhaines> \o/
<nhaines> i tried to vote but I can't vote.
<nhaines> Although apparently I can sabotage the voting options, so there's that.
<nhaines> pleia2: How do you feel about GNOME Shell?
<pleia2> xfce4ever
<nhaines> I'm considering downgrading to Ubuntu 16.04 LTS and reevaluating whether or not to run Ubuntu in 2020.
<nhaines> Although I do sort of like MATE.
<dax> at the risk of being annoying, MATE works fine on Debian :)
<pleia2> I've never really used any form of GNOME, and I continue to lack interest in trying it out
<dax> i have gnome shell on a laptop right now. it's okay
<dax> don't really feel strongly about it one way or another
<nhaines> The non-core GNOME apps are great.  The GNOME Project is toxic and the worst thing to happen to Free Software.
<nhaines> Maybe that's changed in the past couple of years but I lack time or motivation to find out.
<nhaines> Although having spent hours using GNOME Software for the second edition of my book, I can honestly say it's terrible compared to Ubuntu Software Center.
<nhaines> When GNOME Software even worked, anyway.  Because it broke a couple times and I had to revert back to a clean-install snapshot to get any listings.
<nhaines> But GNOME's position seems to be "People should never install fonts."
<nhaines> Or command line apps, unless it's Nethack, in which case only allow the console version to be installed and do not offer the GTK version.
<dax> The only software GUI that doesn't annoy me greatly is synaptic
<dax> All the "friendlier" ones are not for me.
<nhaines> I didn't use Ubuntu Software Center a lot, but at least it worked.
<pleia2> alright, email is prepped so I just need to check the poll and hit send before airport in the AM
<nhaines> yay!
<lyn||ian> I think lubuntu-software-center was better than gnome-software
<nhaines> Thanks for doing all that.  :)
<lyn||ian> but not maintained anymore
#ubuntu-us-ca 2017-05-18
<m3rc3r> IDENTIFY
#ubuntu-us-ca 2018-05-19
<nhaines> pleia2: will you be around for the meeting tomorrow night?  I am out of town and it's possible that I may still be driving home at 7.
<nhaines> (That wasn't the plan, but the math is starting to look that way.
<nhaines> )
<pleia2> nhaines: unfortunately not, I'll be on a flight to Vancouver
<nhaines> pleia2: okay, thanks.
<nhaines> And happy flying!
<pleia2> thanks
