#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-17
<lapo> hi
<coz> hello all
<andreasn> hi
<coz> It was suggested that I share my splash screen with the srt team I assume that is who you guys are/
<coz> art
<coz> andreasn, hello
<coz> for the art team I have made a Splash-screen for dapper uploaded on to ubuntu forims under cosimo 
<coz> forums
<andreasn> I'll check
<andreasn> coz: url?
<coz> andreasn, hold on
<coz> andreasn,  for some reason you have to click on the greyed image to see it  http://www.ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=2408&original=1&c=newimages
<coz> andreasn, you have to click on 
<andreasn> nice
<coz> andreasn, thanks 
<andreasn> I have a feeling a splash-screen is already in the works though
<coz> andreasn, just a note, that is an african baobab tree
<andreasn> I like the idea
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-18
<fiendskull9> hey chillin
<fiendskull9> im not sure where to submit wallpapers for dapper (artwork team) yet
<fiendskull9> but ill put it here
<fiendskull9> http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6553/dapperwall2hr.png
<lapo> hi
<Tm_T> "invoke-rc.d: initscript gdm, action "reload" failed.
<Tm_T> "
<Tm_T> ...wrong channel once again
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-20
<coz> well I added two more splash screens if any of you want to take alook
<coz> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/gallery/browseimages.php?c=5
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-21
<coz> see if this is an ok splash http://www.ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=2447&original=1&c=5
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-22
<jenda> Hello
<jenda> Anyone around? with a few spare minutes in the next few days?
<AndyFitz> ?
<AndyFitz> jenda,  whats up
<jenda> Mind if I just link you to the post I made on the forum? I don't feel like typing it yet one more time :)
<AndyFitz> shoot
<jenda> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=929486#post929486
<jenda> It's about stickers for the Marketing Team, AndyFitz 
<AndyFitz> jenda,  cool.
<AndyFitz> so you'd like them corrected and a few more concepts done for fun ?
<jenda> Yup :)
<jenda> And hopefully, I'll put them to use
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-04-23
<jenda> Hello. Anyone here interested in helping the Marketing Team produce ubuntu promotion stickers?
<lapo> hi
<Reznor> hi
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-16
<lapo> 'morning
<kwwii_> lapo: i found out that it is too late to change anything for feisty...we should add your latest changes to gutsy as soon as I figure out how/where to do that
<lapo> kwwii_: no problems
<lapo> kwwii_: it would be idea to have the lpi icons shipped with the lpi packages directly
<lapo> ideal even
<lapo> kwwii_: do you think the metaphors work?
<kwwii_> lapo: yes, definitely
<kwwii_> lapo: they look great to me ;-)
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-17
<nysosym> where is kwwii?
<troy_s> nysosym: Add me in gaim again
<troy_s> nysosym: Gaim got all wanked when I clickd and dragged a contact
<nysosym> troy_s:  ok :)
<nysosym> troy_s:  i have reached your messages :)
<nysosym> should i add u again?
<troy_s> nysosym: Is your logon nysosym@swissjabber.tech
<troy_s> ?
<nysosym> troy_s: no nysosym@swissjabber.ch
<troy_s> is it jabber or gtalk?
<nysosym> jabber
<nysosym> wb kwwii  :)
<kwwii> wow, the sound event of someone mentioning my nick in my chat channel while I was logged in as a different user killed my machine
<nysosym> hehehe ^^
<kwwii> hi nysosym, btw :-)
<nysosym> :) how are u?
<kwwii> going to restart irssi on my server, one second
<nysosym> ok
<kwwii> nysosym: good, be back in a moment
<kwwii> ok
<nysosym> fine :)
<nysosym> kwwii: congrats feisty is as good as completed :)
<kwwii> nysosym: thanks, although it is not perfect next time will be better
<kwwii> kind of a rush job this time around
<nysosym> sure :)
<nysosym> kwwii: is there a lead artist now?
<kwwii> nysosym: nope
<nysosym> why, problems or no one will do that job?
<kwwii> no idea really, I am not involved in that process
<nysosym> ohh okay :)
<nysosym> will u do the artwork for the next release althoigh?
<kwwii> unless something changes, I will be involved in that process, yes
<nysosym> are there any artwork plans for 7.10?
<kwwii> not yet, but in a few weeks I'll have a definite plan
<kwwii> (after my two week holiday)
<nysosym> fine, i'm excited :)
<nysosym> what will u do in  your holiday?
<kwwii> my parents and brother are coming to germany to visit me
<nysosym> very nice :)
<kwwii> well, not a real vacation, but family is important
<nysosym> sure, i hope u get some time to chill against the family :)
<kwwii> I hope I get a chance (and have enough money) to take a real vacation later this year with my wife
<nysosym> where would u go with enough money? :D
<kwwii> anywhere - probably somewhere cheap
<kwwii> as I won't have a lot of money
<kwwii> don't and won't :-)
<nysosym> cheap? Mallorca :D
<kwwii> not sure yet
<kwwii> we might end up just flying home to america for chrstmas or such
<nysosym> also a good idea
<kwwii> wow, init 6 is reboot
<kwwii> freaky
<nysosym> hehehe :D
<kwwii> brb
<nysosym> wb
<nysosym> i will go to bed now, good night @all :)
<kwwii> night
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-18
<kwwii> night all
<lapo> hi there
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-19
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hey dborg
<dborg> hi
<lapo> dborg: any news about my favorite text editor?
<dborg> lapo: yeah, the download link is dead ;) need to fix that
<lapo> dborg: nice one :-)
<lapo> dborg: do you have a (tangoey) icon for that, right?
<dborg> lapo: yes, didn't you do that? can't remember
<lapo> dborg: oh right, I tend to forget if the icon I use are upstream or not :-)
<dborg> :)
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o kwwii]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork. 7.04, the latest and greatest, is out now, download it at a mirror near you!
<kwwii> w00t
<elkbuntu> grats kwwii :)
<kwwii> thnx but I did not do it all alone ;-)
<kwwii> hopefully this was the first step down a long path
<lapo> kwwii: sshhhh, don't say it the servers are overly busy already :-)
<lapo> dborg: I checked scratchpad package, you're using only the svg, didn't I sent you all the other sizes?
<dborg> lapo: I'm pretty sure I'm using the pixmaps as well
<dborg> hm
<dborg> might be only in svn
<TheSheep> isn't there a text editor for windows called Scratchpad already?
<dborg> lapo: yes, there they are http://scratchpad.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/data/
<dborg> TheSheep: don't know of any
<dborg> hm
<dborg> apparently there is now
<dborg> ScratchPad is a a simple yet powerful notes-taking utility for Windows that resides in your system tray while not in use.
<dborg> I'm pretty sure my scratchpad is older :/
<TheSheep> dborg: that really made me look for your project a while
<TheSheep> dborg: sue them ;)
<dborg> sucks
<TheSheep> ugh, gnomevfs :(
<dborg> I think I'm only using it for mime detection atm. waiting for GVFS
<TheSheep> dborg: I thnk you can do mime detection with xdg
<TheSheep> dborg: what's gvfs?
<dborg> the glib gnome vfs replacement in the works
<dborg> "October 20, 2005 :: Number Nine Software is proud to announce the launch of its website." I made the first release of scratchpad february 2005 :/
<TheSheep> dborg: you should have registered a trademark
<dborg> suure...
<dborg> you would think they know how to google
<TheSheep> lol
<TheSheep> I don't think they even care
<dborg> well I don't mind, there problem if soon people won't be able to find their application anymore :P
<TheSheep> rename it to Scratchpad Deluxe on next release ;)
<dborg> =)
<dborg> if they want me to change the name, they'll have to pay :P
<TheSheep> invest in SEO and make *them* change the name, ha
<TheSheep> (actually wordpress is already pretty google-friendly)
<TheSheep> dborg: why is the makefile trying to overwrite some .so files of gconf?
<dborg> uhm, it shouldn't
<dborg> how could it? there are no gconf library files in the tarball
<TheSheep> well, I made 'checkinstall' and it included libgconfbackend-xml.so in the .deb
<TheSheep> no idea why
<TheSheep> must be somethng broken on my system :/
<lapo> don't trust checkinstall too much
<dborg> I don't even know what that is, maybe it has something to do with the schema installation.
<TheSheep> dborg: yes, probably
<TheSheep> dborg: I was always wondering why no text editor implements the Reskin's idea of a "move selected text here" popup menu command :)
<TheSheep> Raskin's
<dborg> hm
<TheSheep> haha, the arrows in 'jump to line' mode are backwards :)
<TheSheep> dborg: I love this editor, best I've seen so far
<dborg> no, they aren't ;) they increase the line number. maybe I'll change that
<dborg> thanks :)
<TheSheep> dborg: change it randomly every release just to annoy users
<dborg> ok
<TheSheep> hey, it works for Microsoft!
<dborg> I could make it random before any keypress, now that would be fun
<TheSheep> dborg: is there some user documentation gathered together, or is it all in the blog?
<dborg> it's all in the blog
<TheSheep> it's more interesting that way
<TheSheep> dborg: out of curiosity, is there any "standard" way to get the colors to use for colorizing code in gnome/gtk, or does every app need to keep its own settings?
<dborg> TheSheep: I have not really looked into this yet, but I think every app stores it separately.
<TheSheep> shame
<darkmatter> stores what?
<TheSheep> darkmatter: colors for code highlighting
<troy_s> greets darkmatter and TheSheep
<darkmatter> ahh
<darkmatter> hi troy_s
<TheSheep> hi troy_s
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-20
<nysosym> good evening kwwii, you can't sleep tonight? :)
<kwwii>  /topic "Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork. 7.04, the latest and greatest, is out now, download it now at a mirror near you!"
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> nysosym: yeah, just wanted to report my testing on the update manager
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o kwwii]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kwwii] : "Welcome to #ubuntu-artwork. 7.04, the latest and greatest, is out now, download it now at a mirror near you!"
<nysosym> kwwii:  i have downloaded the final version and will burn and test it today ;)
<kwwii> nysosym: cool :-) enjoy!
<nysosym> i will go to be, good night my friends :)
<nysosym> *bed
<kwwii> night man
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-04-21
<melaren> I've been wanting to contribute some ideas to the Ubuntu project lately, but I was wondering how to go about making suggestions.  I read a thread that suggested filing a blueprint in launchpad, but do we really want every Ubuntu user with an idea to create a launchpad entry?  I found an existing blueprint that may be able to benefit from my input.  Can I contact the drafter?  ...or is that what the whiteboard is for?
<TheSheep> melaren: making contact with the people with similar ideas is always worthwhile
<TheSheep> melaren: can we talk here?
<TheSheep> melaren: the contact info is available on launchpad
<TheSheep> melaren: and also often on the wiki -- just click on the user name and you'll be taken to the apropriate page
<melaren> ok, cool, I'll look for it
<TheSheep> melaren: you also might be able to find the people here
<melaren> when you are chatting in irc how do you direct the chat to just one person?   ...it's been a while
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-14
<DanaG> I wish Ubuntu had the time-varying wallpaper Fedora 8 and 9 have.
<DanaG> I tried Fedora in a VM, and that was actually the only thing that really stood out as amazing, frankly.
<_MMA_> DanaG: Ubuntu does.
<DanaG> The XML wallpapers?
<_MMA_> It has the ability.
<DanaG> Wow, somehow I think I missed it ever appearing in changelogs.
<DanaG> I guess I just need to find some wallpapers that use that.
<_MMA_> It's part of GNOME.
<_MMA_> No. You make a xml file that references the wallpapers.
<_MMA_> It's actually not that cool.
<_MMA_> It's really CPU intensive.
<DanaG> But it only changes once per hour, on the Fedora one.
<_MMA_> Still.
<_MMA_> And...
<_MMA_> The transition it too jerky.
<_MMA_> Its not smooth at all.
<_MMA_> At least any setups I've seen.
<_MMA_> I sent a email to the ml on this months ago. An example setup is there as well.
<DanaG> Hmm, what list name?
<DanaG> (gnome-something, most likely.)
<DanaG> That's odd... Fedora 9's GDM has a sort of panel at the bottom with a gnome-power-manager in it.
<_MMA_> If Im in this channel Im talking about this channels list.
<DanaG> aah.
<_MMA_> I also wish this: "DanaG: I wish Ubuntu had the time-varying wallpaper Fedora 8 and 9 have." would have been this: "DanaG: Does Ubuntu have the time-varying wallpaper Fedora 8 and 9 has?"
<DanaG> Good point -- it's a better tone of voice.
<troy_s> DanaG: Honestly, Fedora 8 and 9 are junk regarding design, so you probably aren't going to find too many supporters.
<DanaG> I don't like the artwork, but I do like the idea of the wallpaper following the time of day.
<troy_s> DanaG: Time varying is a novel idea that is rather pathetic in the incarnation present in Fedora 8/9.
<troy_s> DanaG: Indeed.  _MMA_ had a time varying script I believe.
<_MMA_> DanaG: I just feel questions are better to ask before making assumptions. ;)
<_MMA_> troy_s: If Nautilus put drawing the desktop off to a GFX card the effect would be cool. But even with a dual-core setup the effect is too choppy to be nice.
<DanaG> dream.wincustomize.com -- some nice there, but some ugly.
<DanaG> And painful on the CPU.
<_MMA_> Anyway, back to the family.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah.  It really needs to be tabled with GNOME, but judging from the views I have seen expressed by key Tango / GNOME guys, it is going to be 'wait till someone else does it first' syndrome
<DanaG> What was the title of your mailing list post?  I have that list in thunderbird.
<troy_s> DanaG: _MMA_ ?
<DanaG> yeah.
<DanaG> gmane.linux.ubuntu.artwork
<DanaG> Anyway, I can't seem to find anything.
<savvas> everyone has their login window in the correct resolution?
<savvas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/150938
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150938 in human-theme "Screen resolution problems at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<DanaG> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Tree+Slideshow+Wallpaper+for+Fedora?content=74639
<troy_s> DanaG: Honestly, you are going to need to bring more to the table than pure opinion.  Maybe work / output, knowledge, etc.
<DanaG> Hmm, I'm not much of an artist myself... I don't have an ideas of what I'd create.
<troy_s> DanaG: Well you have to understand that while I value opinion on created works etc, the value of opinion is just that -- not much (as you can expect there are thousands of free opinions on Ubuntu design / art in the forums).
<troy_s> DanaG: Bear in mind that art and design is ultimately about audience and goals, and opinions are rooted firmly in the reality that you are a single audience member.
<DanaG> Right.
<troy_s> DanaG: Perhaps researching / studying / learning about design would give you a more fruitful approach to understanding how all of the pieces fit together?
<troy_s> DanaG: And again, I only offer that up as you will get very disillusioned if you expect anyone to go 'YES' -- as that isn't the nature of the field.
<DanaG> Hmm, I'm more the engineering side than the artistic type, but I guess I should exercise the "opposite" part of my brain some time.
<troy_s> DanaG: Yes... bear in mind that it was only a few hundred years ago that those brilliant minds of the Renaissance did both.
<troy_s> DanaG: (Mind you, we have too many engineers / developers and not enough trained artists / designers)
<savvas> figures, no one reverts to blackish titlebar instead of orange :P
<savvas> (no offense) :)
<DanaG> huh?  I think I missed something there.
<DanaG> ... and I'm going to go to dinner now.
<savvas> i'm talking about the orange titlebar, it's should be darker
<DanaG> Oh, in my theme I screenshotted a while ago?
<DanaG> Yeah, I am unusual.  Another way I'm unusual:  If I had to get a desktop again, I'd want a keyboard with a touchpad.
<troy_s> savvas: "Should be darker" again, is subjective.  What do you base your knowledge on?  What users did you test?  I say that because what _appears_ to be a simple suggestion from a single person is actually far more complicated under the skin.
<DanaG> Oh boy, carpet cleaning tomorrow.  It's like a "chinese fire drill" for furniture, in a way.
<DanaG> ... and it reminded me of just how big my Z-5300 speakers' sub is.
<volvoguy> hey all. what's going on these days in the art world?
<volvoguy> anybody know if there's going to be any new artwork (themes/backgrounds/etc) in the final Hardy release?
<kwwii> there already is a new wallpaper and gdm
<kwwii> it is pretty much final now
<tonic-pushcart> ^_^
<volvoguy> it's crazy. i started this group and i never recognize anyone in here anymore. at least you guys are getting farther with actually getting community art into the releases. in my day the canonical folks barely acknowledged we existed.
<volvoguy> is it the heron (or bird-like thing) that's new? i missed a release in there somewhere due to medical issues.
<kwwii> yes, the ubuntu chicken is the new black
<volvoguy> now that support for it is a lot better, i'm hoping some SVG art will start being accepted. (that was my big deal in the early days)
<volvoguy> cool, cool.
<kwwii> all the art was svg this time around
<volvoguy> really? the "chicken" was SVG?
<tonic-pushcart> distributed as svg?
<kwwii> but for performance reasons bitmaps are still used (you do not want to be rendering blur and such)
<tonic-pushcart> yep
<volvoguy> huh. i'll have to check that out.
<volvoguy> i just did a cool carbon fiber background (10x10px tile actually) that shouldn't be too resource heavy.
<volvoguy> a company in Italy is giving me a carbon fiber electric guitar (in exchage for a little office/art work) due to a recent disability, so i've had carbon fiber on the brain lately. :-)
<tonic-pushcart> kwwii: whats going on in the usplash front these days? I've heard rumours about splashy for intrepid
<volvoguy> are you guys still trying to use ubuntu-art.org (i think) for new submissions or is everyone still mostly using gnome-looks.org?
<kwwii> tonic-pushcart: not sure yet...I think it would depend on whether we have a dev who can handle it
<volvoguy> i haven't really done anything with themes (GTK and/org compiz - if there's a difference). are there any graphical theme-building apps you guys would recommend? maybe a good reference/tutorial website to check out? it's alway bugged me that you can't just change the colors of a given theme - you have to find a whole new theme with the colors you want (and maybe it'll be the theme you want).
<kwwii> volvoguy: there are bits and pieces of info but nothing that amazed me to be honest - I guess it depends on what you want to do and how much you already know technically speaking
<tonic-pushcart> kwwii: in what way do you mean, maintaining the splashy deb or an ubuntu-theme for splashy?
<volvoguy> kwwii: i know graphics - and i know XML (which I assume the themes use) - but i've only doodled with editing existing themes. I've never tried to create my own. is it mostly editing text files by hand still and piecing things together like that? i was sure that by now there'd be some kind of theme editor around - like the Windowblind guys have in the Windows world.
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: some GTK themes can have their colours changed through the theme configuration utility provided in recent releases of GNOME
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: the basic clearlooks theme is configurable in this way
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: i assume those aren't installed by default since i can't say i've seen them.
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: of crouse if you want to go further just jump into ~/.themes/ and start playing around with the themes in there (if you've downloaded any).
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: is that "basic clearlooks" like "clearlooks classic", or the more up-to-date SVG version? the latest clearlooks is one of my favorites.
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: moment
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: i haven't downloaded any for the last few releases (I do laptop testing and do full reinstalls with every dev release - and sometimes nightly releases). my installs don't last long enough to merit a whole lot of customization. hardy is looking so good though that i think i'm going to start keeping two installs on my laptop - one to use and one for testing.
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: "ClearlooksClassic" supports it as does "Clearlooks"
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: nice!
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: do you remember what the theme config utility is, off the top of your head?
<tonic-pushcart> it is a part of the theme preferences dialogue the comes shipped with GNOME
<tonic-pushcart> System->Preferences->Appearance
<tonic-pushcart> then click on the Customize button
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: really!? i don't remember seeing any place to configure colors there. (i don't have my Ubuntu laptop handy ATM).
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: definitely going to check that out though. thanks! (i'm doing a clean install as we speak actually)
<tonic-pushcart> there is a tab called 'Colors' in the 'Customize Theme' window where you can pick a specific control theme
<tonic-pushcart> sigh that read wrong
<volvoguy> i'm going to boot into the live cd and take a quick peek.
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: moment
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: yeah go ahead    my net connection is capped at the moment so I can't find an image guide quickly
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: booting now.
<volvoguy> ok tonic-pushcart, i'm in the colors tab of the "customize theme" window. the default for clearlooks is a blue color and the only thing blue there that i see is "selected items" - which i assume means selected text. am i wrong? i only ever glanced over this tab because it didn't look like it had nearly enough items to edit the colors of a whole theme.
<volvoguy> yeah -that seems to have done what i thought. just changed selected things (text, icons, etc).
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: well it is kinda a guide    the theme developers can use the colours however they wish in the gtk theme script
<tonic-pushcart> so just have a play and see what you get
<volvoguy> ok. if i want to copy the theme over to my home directory to play around, where are the system themes located?
<tonic-pushcart> /usr/share/themes
<volvoguy> k. thanks.
<tonic-pushcart> and user themes are found in ~/.themes
<tonic-pushcart> I can't remember if the appearance capplet will pick up a new theme in the directory while it is running (except those added through its interface)
<tonic-pushcart> I suspect not
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: well have fun
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: you might find this interesting and useful though... http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/08/21/how-to-make-a-gtk-theme-that-uses-multiple-theme-engines
<volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: yeah - it picked it  up as soon as i copied it there. ooh -thanks for the link. hopefully i'll be back in here a bit more as my health improves. i look forward to it!
<tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: okay well, take care   see you around.
<volvoguy> thanks for the help guys!
<zorglu_> hi
<zorglu_> i would like to make my own version of this kind of icon/badge. http://www.opera.com/img/download/new/dl-lin.png im not a graphist at all. i am a coder. any advice on the easiet way ?
<kwwii> zorglu_: just look at exactly how that pic is made and redraw it with your text, colors, etc
<zorglu_> kwwii: ok, once i got that what happen ?
<kwwii> your done, export it as png and use it
<zorglu_> kwwii: which software would you use ? based on the fact, i dont know how to use it, so i would have to learn it just for this icon
<zorglu_> im even considering writing the icon in svg :) closer to my own skills, aka coder :)
<tonic-pushcart> inkscape
<tonic-pushcart> you could re colour it and clean it up in the gimp too   but I would be wary of copyright issues
<tonic-pushcart> zorglu_: I think this is what you really need though http://howto.nicubunu.ro/shiny_web_buttons_inkscape/
<zorglu_> tonic-pushcart: seems good indead :)
<tonic-pushcart> zorglu_: in fact there is a inkscape tutorials blog
<tonic-pushcart> zorglu_: http://inkscapetutorials.wordpress.com/
<volvoguy> zorglu_: if you can't figure it out yourself and it's just one graphic you need, i could probably whip it up for you really quick.
<tonic-pushcart> night all
<volvoguy> g'night
<tonic-pushcart> :)
<zorglu_> volvoguy: ultra nice of you, but i need to be flexible. i need like various color and various texts. but thanks a lot for the offer :)
<volvoguy> zorglu_: (sorry for the delay) no problem. sounds like your best bet is SVG - easily done in Inkscape and then edited by hand/script afterward to your heart's content. :) let me know if you need any help.
<zorglu_> volvoguy: as you are volunteering, ... i am editing the svg by hand. i got a rounded rectangle. but how do i put a text inside ?:)
<zorglu_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63174/ <- volvoguy my powerfull svg :)\
<volvoguy> zorglu_: out of curiosity, did you look at Inkscape yet?
<zorglu_> volvoguy: yep. but the .svg produced are 'bloated'
<zorglu_> volvoguy: aka contained a lot of stuff which arent human-friendly
<zorglu_> http://www.croczilla.com/svg/samples/ <- im reading this and trying to see what i can do
<zorglu_> currently i would be happy, with a rounded rectangle and a text inside. nothing fancy
<zorglu_> it would just allow me to go forward on my website :) originally im a p2p coder. so learning inkscape is not one of my primary goal :)
<volvoguy> i understand about a bit of bloat - any WYSIWYG editor isn't going to be as concise as a human. is this something you're going to be manipulating with a script and rendering as a raster graphic for display?
<volvoguy> i'm just trying to understand the final product.
<zorglu_> volvoguy: exactly. i will get a script which will get various size, various color, various text. the goal is to get a badge like http://www.linkedin.com/profile?promoteProfile=&trk=mypro_badges
<zorglu_> but in my case this is not static. aka when you load the page, you get a badge, then this badge content changes depending if you are 'registered' to this stuff or not
<volvoguy> what about just HTML and CSS?
<volvoguy> you could do a badge without even rendering to bitmap.
<volvoguy> zorglu_: (i'm working as i'm picking your brain - i'm not trying to change your mind or anything). :-)
<zorglu_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63184/ <- volvoguy im doiing progress :)
<zorglu_> volvoguy: cool :)
<zorglu_> volvoguy: about pure html/css, this is a good idea. but my knowledge of html/css is ultra low too :)
<zorglu_> volvoguy: moreover it may conflict in the page in which it is included, while a <img> is more neutral :)
<volvoguy> zorglu_: gotcha. i think in HTML/CSS so that's always the first thing that comes to my mind. now, let me figure out pastebin and i'll show you the most basic way to include text (i think).
<zorglu_> volvoguy: ok :)
<volvoguy> zorglu_: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63185/
<volvoguy> zorglu_: you might even be able to strip out a little more - but that's pretty basic there.
<zorglu_> volvoguy: ok cool.looking
<volvoguy> zorglu_: you can strip out the style and id too, but at some point you're probably going to need some of those things (the bloat) ;-) to make it look like anything and to be able to reference that part of the file.
<zorglu_> xml:space="preserve" <- volvoguy do you know what this one mean ?
<zorglu_> volvoguy: ok i think we are done on the .svg, now how do i convert this into a .png ? :)
<volvoguy> zorglu_: no. SVG isn't worth hand editing to me so I just use Inkscape. that attrubute can't be removed though.
<volvoguy> zorglu_: good question. :) i haven't had to do this on a server yet - again, I use Inkscape.
<zorglu_> volvoguy: ok :)
<volvoguy> there are lots of "somethingtosomething" kind of apps though.
<volvoguy> zorglu_: to convert one file to another. you'd need to have the right libraries and stuff on the server.
<volvoguy> zorglu_: maybe this? librsvg2-bin - command-line and graphical viewers for SVG files
<zorglu_> volvoguy: yep. trying to see if 'convert' from imagemagick is able to do the job
<volvoguy> zorglu_: not sure if imagemagick does vectors yet.
<zorglu_> volvoguy: ok installing livrsvg2-bin then :)
<zorglu_> $ rsvg vologuy.svg vologuy.png <- volvoguy, it worked :)
<volvoguy> zorglu_: cool! googling around it looks like imagemagick can probably do it too - i just didn't see any examples.
<volvoguy> zorglu_: and now you have to figure out how to make a script change the text before you render it. ;-)
<zorglu_> volvoguy: this is the easy part :) at least for a coder like me :)
<zorglu_> volvoguy: thanks a lot for your help :)
<volvoguy> zorglu_: well good, i'll come find you when i need some coding help. :) you're welcome.
<zorglu_> :)
<volvoguy> zorglu_: now i have to go do some audio editing for a podcast. good luck!
<_MMA_> http://news.softpedia.com/news/First-Look-The-GIMP-2-5-0-83090.shtml
<kwwii> lol, at least they did it on an ubuntu machine
<_MMA_> :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-15
<DanaG> hah: the Heron pic is named "elephant"
<DanaG> ï»¿/part #ubuntu-artwork Ooh, that thing has numbers on it.
<DanaG> ï»¿/part #ubuntu-artwork Ooh, that thing has numbers on it.
<DanaG> what the heck?
<DanaG> ï»¿/part #ubuntu-artwork Ooh, that thing has numbers on it.
<DanaG> ï»¿/part #ubuntu-artwork Ooh, that thing has numbers on it.
<xivulon> hi all, was thinking of revamping ubuntu-installer.org with some artwork
<xivulon> for the 8.04 launch. if any of you wants to help please let me know
<xivulon> xivulon on gmail
<xivulon> hmm need more coffee: http://wubi-installer.org
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-16
<xivulon> is it ok if I source ideas/graphics off the DVD cover (white one with heron) for wubi-installer.org revamp?
<xivulon> just occurred to me that having the heron in wubi/umenu vertical image would have been an order of magnitude cooler... arg too late
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-17
<psyke83> hi kwwii, are you there?
<DanaG> OOh, wiki now has a transparent-background SVG.  Sweet.
<DanaG> Random observation.
<RwL> creating a usplash theme for the first time... anyone have a good reference on how to reposition and/or alter the progress bar?
<andreasn> kwwii: ping
<andreasn> kwwii: I sent RwL here as I thought you might be more up to date than me on usplash stuff
<_MMA_> The Usplash stuff is black-magic. Documentation great at all. Best person to ask is tonic-pushcart or troy_s.
<bersace> kwwii: hi
<bersace> kwwii: can you merge humanlist ?
<DanaG> Hmm, I've found the wallpaper I'll probably use: the one linked to just above the "gdm theme" preview.
<DanaG> Oddly enough, there's no explicit mention of that wallpaper itself.
<kwwii> andreasn, RwL: there is very little good documentation
<kwwii> RwL: I can help with creating the right kind of theme
<andreasn> yeah, I thought so as well... I wish I had written down how I last did it
<andreasn> now it's all gone
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> it is not that hard if you know what not to do ;-)
<andreasn> hehe
<kwwii> bersace: not sure, it might be too late for me to update anything
<bersace> :(
<RwL> kwwii: thanks... yeah, all I really want to do at this point is move the progress bar down a bit to accommodate a design that was handed off to me to build.
<RwL> but I'm actually failing to create a test version too...
<RwL> I run this... gcc -Os -g -I/usr/include/bogl -fPIC -c usplash-artwork.c -o usplash-artwork.o
<RwL> gcc -shared -Wl,-soname,usplash-artwork.so usplash-artwork.o -o yourimage-splash.so
<RwL> and I get this:
<RwL> usplash-artwork.c:1: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'has'
<DanaG> Cool, so you are changing the usplash theme?  Sweet.
<_MMA_> ï»¿ï»¿andreasn: hehe http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3038/2405289552_fdef210458.jpg?v=0
<kwwii> RwL: hrm, not too much experience with building the theme
<RwL> no sweat. Just learned that that c compiler error was because I used pngtobogl (supports 16 colors) instead of pngtousplash (supports 256), apparently
<savvas> kwwii: do you know who should I poke for this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/150938
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150938 in human-theme "Screen resolution problems at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<_MMA_> savvas: That has nothing to do with the theme and should be removed from the art team.
<kwwii> savvas: yeah, the gdm maintainer I guess
<savvas> oops
<kwwii> or X maintainer
<kwwii> perhaps
<_MMA_> If anything that Xorg is out of wack. WHo puts in a modline that's hirer than the res of their monitor?
<savvas> ok thanks
<kwwii> sorry I couldn't be of more help
<savvas> _MMA_: this is my xorg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13415250/xorg.conf
 * _MMA_ looks
<savvas> or at least was, i cleared those sections, like Section "monitor" #  etc
<_MMA_> savvas: And the gdm is displayed at a higher res than yout monitor does?
<savvas> um...
<savvas> i think it's lower
<savvas> it has hidden the options such as shutdown or restart
<savvas> i took two pics with my mobile: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13415263/login-window-screenshots.zip
<_MMA_> Ill look at your screenshots. But Im gonna say this is most likely gonna be an X issue.
<kwwii> seems like a problem specific to nvidia cards (again)
<savvas> ok, i'll remove the art team while you do that :)
<_MMA_> savvas: If this is Hardy, backup you config, and deleate the xorg.conf.
<_MMA_> Let the new X do all the magic.
<kwwii> savvas: did you try removing the virtual resolution only?
<_MMA_> See what happens.
<savvas> kwwii: did that, didn't help :\
<kwwii> hrm
<savvas> i'll try what _MMA_ said
<savvas> gimme a minute
<savvas> er..
<savvas> kwwii is right, looks like it's nvidia
<savvas> i did what _MMA_ said, it showed up fine, i think it was using the nv driver
<savvas> then I switched it using screens and graphics and autodetected the monitor, set resolution 1152x864, logged off, and it showed the problem again
<_MMA_> savvas: Did you try by *just* setting the driver to "nvidia"?
<_MMA_> Don't set the screen res.
<savvas> mmm give me one more minute then :)
<savvas> _MMA_: through screens and graphics?
<savvas> $ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<savvas> cat: /etc/X11/xorg.conf: No such file or directory
<_MMA_> kwwii: Boo... https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-April/003888.html re: Bug 211740
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211740 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "Hardy: Ubuntu login screen art has brightnes increased" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211740
<_MMA_> kwwii: Smack 'em.
<_MMA_> savvas: Ill post a base xorg for you.
<savvas> dpkg-reconfigure won't do? :\
<_MMA_> Well, should.
<savvas> ok wait
<_MMA_> Didnt know how much you knew. ;)
<savvas> http://pastebin.ca/raw/988436
<_MMA_> Try this: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63547
<_MMA_> I get nothing from your link.
<savvas> ah well never mind, i'll use yours
<savvas> they look the same
<savvas> just the driver line
<_MMA_> That should surely narrow it down to the driver.
<savvas> okay, it shows ok
<savvas> the options at the lower corner of the screen is shown now
<_MMA_> So if it shows fine, it's most likely your config.
<_MMA_> So please report the findings to the bug and kwwii can get someone to close it.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, this usplash theme you're compiling... do you have a screenshot anywhere?
<andreasn> _MMA_: glad you like it. It was quite a success at the costume party
<DanaG> Oh yeah, something odd....
<_MMA_> andreasn: Seeexxxy. :P
<DanaG> I just ran gdmflexiserver --xnest, and the login theme started at the original small size of the window.
<andreasn> heh
<DanaG> I then moved the window and it expanded -- but the theme did not!
<DanaG> So something is definitely odd there.
<savvas> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/63548/plain/
<savvas> I used nvidia-settings and now it's ok
<_MMA_> savvas: Cool.
<kwwii> DanaG: that is the normal behavior, nothing to freak out about
<DanaG> It used to be the other way around:
<DanaG> The window would start small, but the theme would start large.
<savvas> _MMA_: thanks for your time :) I'll go post the results right away
<_MMA_> np
<_MMA_> DanaG: Things change.
<DanaG> How do you specify resolution for gdmflexiserver in xnest, anyway?
<DanaG> So they've just changed the normal behavior?  That works for me.  I just wasn't expecting it.
<kwwii> if it still uses xnest there is a variable you can define
<_MMA_> DanaG: Dont know. Time to look up some documenttion maybe?
<kwwii> it was using xephyr on my machine
<DanaG> Same here.
<kwwii> google it and there is a forum page about xnest and other info
<kwwii> if it uses xephyr why are you asking about xnest?
<DanaG> Oh, I made a mistake there.
<kwwii> as for xephyr I have no idea how to define the resolution
<kwwii> and I have looked and asked people
<DanaG> xephyr itself has a resolution parameter, but it seems gdmflexiserver doesn't expose it.
<savvas> well.. another day, another problem resolved :P
 * _MMA_ tinkers with GIMP 2.5.
<RwL> happy: i got my custom usplash screen and GDM theme finished up. But how come, after login, it goes to a ubuntu-standard orange/brown screen before it loads my desktop wallpaper? Any way to change that? I set a different background color via Login Window preferences...
<_MMA_> RwL: You have to be sure to purge the old one.
<_MMA_> 1 sec.
<_MMA_> RwL: Oh no wait. I miss-read.
<_MMA_> Tou mean the background color. That's a Gutsy bug.
<_MMA_> *You
<RwL> _MMA_:  Thanks! Got any links to info on the bug? I'll need to show it to someone else :^p
<_MMA_> No. I just know its gone in Hardy.
<_MMA_> It was a GDM bug.
<RwL> ok, thanks again!
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-18
<DanaG> Earlier today, I heard discussion about compiling a new usplash theme; is there a screenshot somewhere?
<DanaG> Of the new theme you're proposing.  (I don't remember who it was.)
<Flannel> Hey guys, we're doing some CD sleeves, and we're having difficulty figuring out which colors are 'official', https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official says one RGB color, but then the PNG/SVG palettes list different colors.
<DanaG> That reminds me... the DVD cover concepts still use the red-neck heron.
<m-c> is there some 08.04 artwork that I can use on a website to promote the upcoming release?
<troy_s> Flannel: There is no palette officially aside from the three logo colours which are clearly indicated on the wiki.
<troy_s> Flannel: Ignore the rest.
<DanaG> Wasn't somebody saying something about compiling a new usplash theme?
<Flannel> troy_s: The wiki indicates multiple logo colors though.
<troy_s> DanaG: I believe the usplash discussion was regarding a different implementation -- not for Ubuntu proper.
<DanaG> aah.
<troy_s> Flannel: There are three... the red yellow and orange.
<DanaG> Changing the backend, rather than the theme?
<Flannel> troy_s: And if you look at the "official" pallete, there are three (red, yellow, orange) "base" colors, which are different than the RGBs listed on the wiki page itself
<troy_s> Flannel: Uh let me find them sorry.
<troy_s> DanaG: Unrelated.
<troy_s> Flannel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<troy_s> You can see the 'word of god' there under the "Colours" section.
<troy_s> Flannel: I would say in good faith that those hex values are respected, as I believe I originally posted them with the acceptance of Canonical.  That said, kwwii could give you a de facto authoritative 'stamped by Mark' update on that if he were required.
<Flannel> troy_s: Someone may want to make sure everything on that page agrees then, since they currently dont.  And there is no official Kubuntu colors?
<troy_s> Flannel: Again, there is extremely little attention given to things such as standards guides and such with all of the *buntus.  It is _awful_ for Ubuntu main, and worse as the others roll.
<Flannel> Alright, I just figured I'd try and start off with the canonical colors (no pun intended... well, maybe a little bit) instead of having to try and retroactively fix it later
<Flannel> troy_s: Thanks for your time, I've been trying to get a decent response for a few days.
<Flannel> Actually, if there's no official colors for the other three flavors, what one color of each's logo would you pick if you had to?
<troy_s> Flannel: Uh... at least you have only been waiting for a few days.
<Flannel> troy_s: Yeah, I know how it goes
<troy_s> Flannel: This is purely my opinion and worth nothing.  The lack of a standards guide and the devoted care and attention to all things design / art is symptomatic as far as I am concenred.
<troy_s> concerned even.
<Flannel> troy_s: I don't need a value, just a "top right color" sort of thing.  And yeah, I realise this is just your opinion
<troy_s> Flannel: And in terms of palettes, it is yikes.  Colour should never ever equal brand.  Neither should a logo.  These are broad misconceptions carried about by FOSS types who have no knowledge or understanding of the concepts.
<troy_s> Flannel: Brand is something that your audience gives you.
<Flannel> troy_s: Well, we're just looking for something to differentiate the first letters of the flavor on our CD sleeves, not necessarily a branding, just a little bit of non-black
<troy_s> Flannel: The knee jerk dead head response is something like Windows Blue for Kubuntu, Orange for Ubuntu, and Windows blue for Xubuntu.
<Flannel> troy_s: Well, I was picking one of the colors from their logo for each, but having never used Kubuntu or Xubuntu, I'm unsure which to associate it most strongly with, of the various blues/greys
<troy_s> Flannel: They are pretty colour androgenous.
<troy_s> Flannel: What colour is Apple?
<Flannel> I picked the orange for Ubuntu, and the Red for Edubuntu
<troy_s> Flannel: Or what colour is Windows?
<troy_s> lol
<Flannel> Nah, I know, we're not creating a brand, we just want to make the differences stand out.
<troy_s> Flannel: I would say roll with whatever your gut tells you after a precursory view.
<troy_s> Flannel: I'd probably agree with your estimates at that point... Maybe a more greyish blue for Xub, but that is really just a guesswork opinion.
<Flannel> alright, thanks for your input.
<DanaG> I like the brown of the Gutsy wallpaper.
<troy_s> DanaG: That makes one of you apparently.
<DanaG> I do like it a "medium sized" amount better than the very specific current orange-brown.
<DanaG> I'm also odd in other preferences: I prefer my touchpad over a mouse, and would get a keyboard with a touchpad for a desktop if I had to use one.
<troy_s> DanaG: Perhaps the most salient point of all things is that when it comes to art and design, one must be aware that in almost all situations, ye be not ye audience.
<DanaG> Yup.  Plus, everything's subjective.
<troy_s> DanaG: Indeed.  That said, there are at least two relatively predictable variables in there -- Time and Culture.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I've tried out the fading wallpaper thing, and it seems like it'd take a large amount of work to make really good art for it.  I've hacked up a few themes from various wallpapers, but things act not quite as intended -- for example, if midday is bright blue and dusk is orange, then between those will be a dark purple.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-19
<DanaG> ï»¿I can't wait until this summer .... when I get my new laptop, I am soooooo going to get a case skin of the Heron.  ï»¿I just wish this wallpaper were included along with the other one:  ï»¿"color-grey-translucent.svg" -- link is just above the GDM thingy.  Note: this SVG chokes firefox for quite a while.
<troy_s> DanaG: Consider laser etching if you get a metal exterior.
<troy_s> DanaG: There are some amazing and beautiful applications of that technique on laptops.
<DanaG> Hmm, but that may be more permanent than I'd want.
<DanaG> Unless I can buy replacement laptop lids.
<troy_s> http://tumbl.us/post/2451969
<troy_s> DanaG: You shouldn't mind if it is a decent enough design.
<troy_s> DanaG: Some amazingly beautiful work done.
<DanaG> http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3862
<troy_s> http://www.jonnymac.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/engraving_finished.jpg
<troy_s> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1394/1177286747_a810b8c160.jpg
<troy_s> Those are three of the more compositionally elegant etchings.
<troy_s> DanaG: I have considered doing some custom airbrush work on a few of my friends exterior shells as per request... but it is a heck of a tough / tricky thing to do perfectly.
<DanaG> Hmm, and I can look at the service guide to see if the lid is a purchasable part.
<DanaG> Dang, not purchasable separately from the screen itself.
<DanaG> I'd have to think about that idea of laser etching.
<DanaG> ANd while at it, I also discovered that if you purchase without WWAN, you don't get the antennas for it, and can't add WWAN later -- but then again, I won't likely use that feature.
<DanaG> http://lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/?p=111
<DanaG> Laser etched magnesium alloy.
<DanaG> Heh, ALSA thinks my USB headset has an SPDIF output.
<DanaG> Oops, offtopic (my tab moved, so I thought this was #ubuntu+1)
<savvas> kwwii: looks like they're going for some other default bittorrent icon in gnome theme: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525311 - however, will they use in ubuntu hardy the one i submitted?
<ubotu> Gnome bug 525311 in general "Need icon for .torrent files" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-04-20
<DanaG> wï»¿oah, compare /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/background.png to ï»¿/usr/share/gdm/themes/HumanList/background.png
<DanaG> Is there a happy medium in the middle somewhere?
<DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-gdm-themes/+bug/211740
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 211740 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "Hardy: Ubuntu login screen art has brightnes increased" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<troy_s> DanaG: Bugger them
<troy_s> DanaG: I am pissed that I can't comment.
<troy_s> DanaG: Quite frankly I support _any_ degree of change -- and kwwii did just that.
<troy_s> DanaG: The idiots commenting on that bug should crawl back into their myopic cave and rot.
<DanaG> Hmm, I do agree with the "too bright" bit -- but the old was perhaps "too dark"
<DanaG> Perhaps halfway between would be better.
<troy_s> DanaG: Oh god it is bickering over nothingness
<troy_s> DanaG: It is a serious no wonder why all of FOSS is generally crap when you have idiots commenting like that.
<DanaG> I try not to take a "bickering" tone nowadays.
<troy_s> DanaG: kwwii simply added a little difference and everyone gets up in arms.
<troy_s> DanaG: Seroiusly -- feck em.
<troy_s> DanaG: I so wish I didn't miss that bug report.
<DanaG> "little" is subjective, though.
<DanaG> I'm okay with it as it is, though, if it must be that way.
<troy_s> DanaG: It is _all_ subjective... look at this rubbish comment:  This might be, but on a regular LCD/TFT screen, the login art has been changed for the worse. We definately need the original login art back since that looked much better.
<troy_s> Someone should bury that guy
<DanaG> Yeah, that's treating it as "fact" when it's really opinion.
<troy_s> DanaG: It is entirely subjective.  For that reason alone, I am at the brink of insanity trying to discuss the various elements of art and design with anyone in that circle.  It is just borderline ridiculous.
<DanaG> On my LCD, it may look washed out... but then again, my LCD itself is crap.
<troy_s> DanaG: Beyond opinion.  Accepting that though, is a step toward understanding what art and design _is_.
<troy_s> DanaG: I just want to vomit up a Tango ball when I read that rubbish.
<DanaG> The old one looks worse than the new one to me, actually.
<troy_s> DanaG: Worse better whatever.  Irrelevant.  Ubuntu needs to open up to change, and the GDM is nothing more.
<troy_s> (nothing less either)
<DanaG> People who want to change it back can just copy one background.png over the other.
<troy_s> DanaG: Our culture is designphobic and so extremely paralysed by fear and change that it is somehow more conservative than Microsoft with far far far less at stake.
<DanaG> "fear and change" -- "fear OF change"?
<troy_s> DanaG: Seriously -- when our exemplary efforts in art and design are shards of rubbishy OpenSUSE desktops and scary blue ill-composed wallpapers in KDE, we have far more to worry about than the myopic opinions of two or three dufuses on a bug report.
<DanaG> Just for the sake of experimentation, I decided to stick both backgrounds in GIMP and twiddle the opacity of one of them.
<DanaG> As I changed it, I noticed that it doesn't really look decisively "Better" or "Worse" to me either way -- just "Different"
<DanaG> And I still can't for myself even decide which way I like it better.
<DanaG> (I put the dark as bottom layer, and the brighter as top layer.)
<DanaG> So I'd have to say, I won't even try to claim to be able to make it better myself -- especially when I can't decide for myself what I like better.
<troy_s> DanaG: Probably because better and worse are bound by the destination.
<troy_s> DanaG: In the end, as with all introductory texts on art / design / creative fluffy bits / etc., it is about _language_.
<troy_s> DanaG: The communicative goal of the piece is then the topic.  1) Who is one speaking to?  2) What is one trying to say?  3) How is one trying to say it?
<DanaG> Hmm, I hadn
<troy_s> DanaG: You are focusing on (3) without probably have localizing what exactly 1 and 2 are.
<DanaG> I hadn't thought of art as language.
<troy_s> DanaG: Nothing more nothing less.  It is also largely why people cannot appreciate Andy Warhol's contributions in the context of say -- today.
<troy_s> DanaG: Art and design is language and being such, it morphs to fit the time / era / culture that develops it.
<troy_s> DanaG: In Ubuntu and FOSS land, we have a hard time accepting that the hard and fast rules that apply to code don't exist.
<troy_s> DanaG: There are most certainly 'rules', but they shift a little more mercurially than hard math / code.
<troy_s> DanaG: Even still, without identifying WHO and WHAT, it is hard to get to HOW.
<troy_s> DanaG:  It is far easier to bicker about fictional terms such as 'usability' or spit out worthless 'better' or 'ugly' than it is to actually discuss the complexities of audience and goal.
<DanaG> Hmm, I also wonder: how many users actually consciously think about how their desktops look?
<DanaG> I see many people use the XP default wallpaper and visual style, since they simply don't bother changing it.
<DanaG> I do like how Ubuntu tries to be distinctive with its colors -- it's wonderful to get away from the "same old, same old" blues.
<troy_s> DanaG: Well probably not.  Arguably a quick examination of the bulk of everyday users would reveal a photo of something personal on the desktop.
<troy_s> DanaG: Children, an event, etc.
<DanaG> aah, s/see many people/know many people who/
<troy_s> yeah
<DanaG> I guess art, like IT (surprisingly), is one of those fields where you either get hate from users, or get no notice at all.
<DanaG> eh
<DanaG> maybe not.
<DanaG> That's an exaggeration, perhaps.
<troy_s> DanaG: Needless to say that in this era, the computer is a personal living space -- probably somehow reflected in those personal pictures stuck on the wallpapers.  This isn't about usable -- this is about living and breathing in a new area.
<DanaG> HP's slogan is "The Personal Computer is Personal Again" -- or something like that.
<DanaG> "Again" -- when was it before, and was it ever NOT?
<troy_s> DanaG: No, I don't think it _was_.  It certainly _is_.
<troy_s> DanaG: And yet many proponents of the status quo out in FOSS land keep trying to push this strange detachment -- to create an emotional vacuum with the desktop presence.
<DanaG> Thus that slogan seems "cool" but actually odd, since I don't think it was ever "not"
<troy_s> DanaG: Look at OpenSUSE's absolutely crap presence for example.
<DanaG> The plain green background?  Might as well not be there at all.
<troy_s> DanaG: Fedora 7 was the most bold step in the _proper_ direction in my estimation... only it appears that Diana walked away from the tripe.
<troy_s> DanaG: Exactly.
<troy_s> DanaG: And there are actual blogs from the creator of that tripe on 'how to create a wallpaper'.
<troy_s> DanaG: Which cracks me up.
<DanaG> Fedora 7... oh, the hot air balloons -- that's cool branding.
<troy_s> DanaG: Anyways, I'm off.  Be good and keep thinking.
<DanaG> I'm hoping this Heron can become as well recognized as that.
<troy_s> DanaG: Branding?  I believe the elusive term 'brand' is something given by your audience.  You can't create brand.
<troy_s> DanaG: Here is a good quote:
<troy_s> DanaG: "The identity is not a brand.  The brand is the perception formed by the audience about a company, person, or idea.  This perception is the culmination of logo, visuals, identity program, messages, products, and actions.  A designer cannot 'make' a brand.  Only the audience can do this.  The designer forms the foundation of the message with the logo and identity system."
<troy_s> DanaG: Quite a brilliant quote really.
<troy_s> -- AdamsMorioka
<DanaG> Yeah. I was trying to figure out exactly what you meant, and that answers it perfectly.
<troy_s> DanaG: That isn't the first time it has been approached that way, but the quote illuminates it quite well.
<DanaG> Oh yeah, if you have to go somewhere... don't let me keep you longer than you intend to stick around.
<DanaG> (for example, I know I'll often stay up later than I intend to, when I'm talking online.)
<TuxIce> hey, how do i join the artwork team
<TuxIce> anybody?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-13
<SiDi> Hello people
<thorwil> hi SiDi
<SiDi> hello thorwil whats up ?
<thorwil> SiDi: browsing around before i once again dig into the wiki :)
<SiDi> hehe, poor wiki, we wont even recognise it at end :D
<thorwil> heh
* You're now known as ubuntulog
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-14
<Superdweeb> anybody awake?
<BHSPitMonkey> nope
<Superdweeb> Can you do stuff?
<Superdweeb> Could you make it so when compiz is disabled, 3d-accelleration is still enabled?
<BHSPitMonkey> uhh
<BHSPitMonkey> it is
<BHSPitMonkey> compiz doesn't affect that
<BHSPitMonkey> and that isn't within the scope of this channel
<Superdweeb> that's strange, my gnome-appearance manager changes the driver to mesa when compiz is disabled.
<BHSPitMonkey> do you mean vesa?
<Superdweeb> yes.
<BHSPitMonkey> I have trouble believing that
<BHSPitMonkey> (and again, not for this channel)
<Superdweeb> Well, I'll be quiet here then.
<TwoToneSpirit> Hey everybody - where can one view the Jaunty artwork?
<BHSPitMonkey> in jaunty
<TwoToneSpirit> You mean in the beta?
<BHSPitMonkey> yeah
<ziroday_> Hi, where can I get a hi-res version of even better the sources of the current wallpaper?
<ziroday_> (intrepid)
<SiDi> hi
<kwwii> ok, time to start answering emails
<kwwii> after my laptop totally b0rked on me
<Cimi> kwwii, did you fixed the wallpapers? they had 2px of misalignment
<kwwii> Cimi: yes I fixed them but no it did not make it into the RC
<Cimi> perfect
<kwwii> :)
<Cimi> i just remmebered you in the case you forgot
<kwwii> thanks, I almost did forget to tell them I fixed it :p
<kwwii> hrm, anyone know how to get f-spot to open a file with gimp?
<kwwii> ahhha, it is a raw file which gimp has to open with a plugin
<kwwii> so it won't work...nice!
<H_M-Ubuntu> Anyone on?
<H_M-Ubuntu> Meh i'm taking that as a no..
<SiDi> Heya
<H_M-Ubuntu> Well anyway, i'm trying to figure out how to add buttons (shutdown, restart, suspend) to my login theme... Haven't had any luck yet. The theme is complete, I just want to add more.
<H_M-Ubuntu> And of course, it's up on http://gnome-look.org/ :)
<SiDi> Can't help you on that :]
<SiDi> ping dashua
<H_M-Ubuntu> Hmmmm, want to see the theme though?
<SiDi> yeh please
<dashua> SiDi: Hey mate
<H_M-Ubuntu> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/UbuGDM+Widescreen?content=102805 <--
<SiDi> what's up dashua ?
<dashua> Ah nada, just enjoying this beautiful rainy weather here :)
<H_M-Ubuntu> I was going to release a fullscreen version, but I decided I really don't care :)
<H_M-Ubuntu> :P
<SiDi> H_M-Ubuntu, you should put this kind of stuff in ubuntu-look instead of gnome-look, gentooists will kick our asses again :D
<H_M-Ubuntu> Oh really?
<SiDi> dashua, rain is kewl :P
<H_M-Ubuntu> Well i'll go there instead then... Though gnome-look is more popular, i'm assuming.
<SiDi> H_M-Ubuntu, when you do really ubuntu specific artwork then its preferred
<SiDi> other distro users tend to get upset otherwise ;)
<SiDi> yeh its more popular
<SiDi> i like your gdm tho
<H_M-Ubuntu> Pfffffft then they don't click on it
<H_M-Ubuntu> Lawl.
<dashua> How are things going  on your end?
<H_M-Ubuntu> So dashua, can you help me with adding buttons to my theme?
<SiDi> dashua, i'm fine. im on holidays still, but i got a lot of work :)
<dashua> Ah nice
<SiDi> dashua, i dont know if i told u last time but i found something going wrong with rust ;p
<dashua> Oh?
<SiDi> Yeh
<SiDi> in xfce, the clock's text is black
<SiDi> black on dark brown
<dashua> Screenshot?
<H_M-Ubuntu> Oh I made my own emerald and GTK2.0 themes, too...
<dashua> Hrm
<H_M-Ubuntu> Care to see?
<SiDi> i'll make u a screeny, sec
<dashua> H_M-Ubuntu: I probably could, but metacity-themer is not playing nice in Jaunty for me
<SiDi> its because the clock picks the text color by default, and not the panel's one
<dashua> Ah
<H_M-Ubuntu> I just make my themes by hand...
<H_M-Ubuntu> :X
<dashua> I wouldn't have seen this, GNOME
 * H_M-Ubuntu loves programming, preferably without an IDE
<SiDi> hehe i know dashua  ;)
<dashua> H_M-Ubuntu: I do too, but metacity-theming get a little involved
<H_M-Ubuntu> http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/j97xc4xpp5nccgjminu.png
<H_M-Ubuntu> I made the wallpaper, too ^_^
<dashua> H_M-Ubuntu: That looks nice.
<H_M-Ubuntu> Ty, I was arguing over one of my friends themes :P
<SiDi> http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4296/capturej.png dashua
<SiDi> nice H_M-Ubuntu
<SiDi> but the fonts really dont fit with the metacity ;P
<H_M-Ubuntu> I likez my fontz
<dashua> SiDi: Hrm, alright.  I will look into that. I see
<H_M-Ubuntu> They aren't opensource though, they're OS X fonts.
<H_M-Ubuntu> :P
<SiDi> Something like droid would fit better, H_M-Ubuntu ;)
<H_M-Ubuntu> Nah
<SiDi> dashua, thanks :) i still didnt do the xfwm btw :D
<H_M-Ubuntu> As I always say, to each his own.
<H_M-Ubuntu> I prefer this :)
<H_M-Ubuntu> Meh I guess i'll just look at some other themes and see how they put buttons in
<dashua> SiDi: Ok, no worries.  I've only recently committed a few modifications to bzr
<H_M-Ubuntu> You know if I can't find one, later i'm going to make a DETAILED post to Ubuntu Forums on how to create a nice GDM theme.
<SiDi> i dont really get involved in ubuntuforums
<SiDi> mostly because someone stole my nickname there :@
<H_M-Ubuntu> K well I just made up the buttons, i'll try 'em out now I guess
<H_M-Ubuntu> http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/images/jp6bt6n224ongupgw7w4.png
 * H_M-Ubuntu loves gimp
<SiDi> i can't believe myself doing this in gimp in less than 3/4 good days...
<H_M-Ubuntu> Oh well I have my name on UbuForums, Samual
<H_M-Ubuntu> Someone took it on freenode though
<H_M-Ubuntu> The bastard
<H_M-Ubuntu> :)
<H_M-Ubuntu> Hey what do anchors mean in GDM themes? You know in the .xml
<H_M-Ubuntu> I see like, n, nw, w, etc...
<H_M-Ubuntu> I assumed "North, northwest, west." But heh
<SiDi> north ? west ?
<SiDi> well.. :D
<H_M-Ubuntu> Yeah but it seems contradicting, because I think when I put W it decided to go on the right side, not the left.
<H_M-Ubuntu> Lawlz
<H_M-Ubuntu> Hey it workz!!!!!!!!!
<H_M-Ubuntu> :D
<H_M-Ubuntu> :D
<SiDi> Good night folks
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-15
<H_M-Ubuntu> Anyone on?
<H_M-Ubuntu> I need help still, heh
<H_M-Ubuntu> I tried and tried, still can't get this to work.
<BHSPitMonkey> H_M-Ubuntu, help?
<BHSPitMonkey> this channel pertains to artwork... are you having trouble posting to the wiki or something?
<H_M-Ubuntu> No I was making a GDM theme.. heh
<H_M-Ubuntu> I figured it out though, that is how to add shutdown/restart/suspend buttons to a GDM theme.
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! how's things? robsta is about to pick up work on the css engine again
<kwwii> thorwil: killer, good to hear he has time
<kwwii> thorwil: been quite busy lately finishing up jaunty
<kwwii> hopefuly I can start answering emails tonight
<thorwil> kwwii: i bet you have a lot of stuff from that crazy german guy in your inbox. has been spamming he art list lately :)
<kwwii> thorwil: lol, I saw your name quite often :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-16
<SiDi> hi
<kwwii> wow, I just read a buttload of emails
<kwwii> and in some cases even replied ;)
<SiDi> thats chaotic, kwwii
<SiDi> then people will reply to your replies
<SiDi> and you'll have to read their replies
<kwwii> :p
<savvas> a buttload eh :p
<savvas> now how huge can that be :)
<kwwii> you don't want to know :)
<savvas> hahah
 * kwwii takes his son to a friends house and gets lunch, bbl
<thorwil> hola!
<SiDi> Wenas thorwil w
<SiDi> que tal ?
<thorwil> all good :)
 * thorwil learns about wenas
<SiDi> Wenas=  Buenas = Buenos dias
<SiDi> Sometimes you'll hear "nas", too
<thorwil> heh, how lazy
<SiDi> :)
<SiDi> well, if you compare buenos dias to hi, thats understandable :O
<thorwil> lol
<robsta> hey thorwil
<thorwil> hi robsta
<thorwil> robsta: started yesterday with dead simple widgets for the template
<robsta> thorwil: woo, lessee!
<robsta> is it in your repo?
<thorwil> robsta: nah, wait a bit until there really is something to see ,)
<thorwil> robsta: are you already back in the code?
<robsta> somewhat, will patch where needed once we're on a theme
<robsta> a friend of mine proudly showed me his desktop after upgrading to beta, is new wave default now?
<thorwil> might be possible to get the stuff you see in the widget factory done on the weekend
<robsta> cool
<thorwil> robsta: no, not default afaik
<robsta> we can always add states later
<thorwil> i already have per up/down button hover for spinners. that being in the template doesn't mean it has to be used imediately, of course
<thorwil> robsta: it seems dilomo (Anton) is hot an animations :)
 * thorwil waves to kwwii 
<robsta> well yes, but let's focus on gtk2 for now
<robsta> maybe we can achieve fading transitions and struff thru hacks, but gtk3 is in flux
<thorwil> robsta: you don't happen to have an idea how we could speed up the plate creation for the template?
<robsta> thorwil: plate creation has not been on my plate so far
<thorwil> heh
<robsta> what's the problem?
 * robsta is absolutely inept in inkscape
<thorwil> it's just a lot of fiddling, creating all the plates and especially naming them
<robsta> just create them, i'll do the names
<thorwil> ok, cool :D
 * thorwil -> coffee
<kwwii> hey robsta, nice to see you around :)
<robsta> hi Kenneth, how's things?
<kwwii> robsta: good, now that jaunty is mainly out of the way ;)
<kwwii> robsta: and yourself?
<robsta> no complaints, $day_job is keeping me real
<kwwii> hehe, works always a pain but that's why they pay you money to do it
<robsta> kwwii: i hear bratsche is with you now, good catch :)
<robsta> actually, i heard it from him
<kwwii> robsta: yeah, that guy is crazy smart
<kwwii> at first I wondered who he was, then I worked on a couple of things with him and I was really impressed
<robsta> .. and tall!!
<robsta> :P
<kwwii> hehe, and going bald!
<robsta> who isn't?
<kwwii> I think he had to do that to fit in with the team
<thorwil> kwwii: seen my mail to Geraldine Coutts where I CCed you?
<kwwii> thorwil: don't think so, let me check
<kwwii> thorwil: answered, thanks for pointing that out, I had indeed missed it
<thorwil> kwwii: no problem, today she asked me about your opinion ...
<kwwii> well, now she has it ;)
<thorwil> kwwii: what is it, or did you CC me as well?
<kwwii> thorwil: you should receive a copy as well
<thorwil> ah, ok
 * kwwii has a conf call now...bbl
<dashua> SiDi: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/12611/screenshot_002_g1IKqD.png ; http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/12612/screenshot_003_2faOM1.png
<dashua> WIP
<SiDi> 404 :(
<SiDi> ah, got it now
<SiDi> Hm, i think the shadow in the toolbars is too pronounced
<dashua> Yeah, too puffy?
<SiDi> It almost looks like we're looking at a cylinder
<dashua> I'm trying to get a dimensional look to it
<dashua> Maybe if I take it off the menubar, it won't be as obtrusive?
<SiDi> Something else, for the app menu, what about using a darker brown for the hovered menu item instead of lighter one ?
<dashua> Ok, sure
<SiDi> At the moment i have the feeling there are too many different colours when you're watching the menu (toolbar's color, toolbar hovered menu, normal menu item + hovered menu item)
<dashua> I can make it darker, let me test some colors
<SiDi> Sure
<SiDi> I think you should go for flat toolbars, with the metacity's colour, and stylise the buttons of the toolbar instead. it'd put the metacity's buttons more in the foreground
<dashua> Ok cool, I'll hack around on it some more :)
<mrooney> hello, I am on the ubuntu-art mailing list and have been replying for a while, and I just realized none of my replies have made it through :/
<mrooney> how can I debug what is going wrong?
<SiDi> mrooney, what mail client are you using ?
<mrooney> I participate in other ubuntu-related lists fine
<mrooney> gmail
<SiDi> and you use the same sending address than the one withh which you registered ? :/
<mrooney> SiDi: no it goes to a forward address which forwards to my gmail
<mrooney> is that the issue? with other lists it doesn't seem to be a problem or has to go through moderation
<SiDi> Well, what about trying sending an email directly ? At least you'll be fixed
 * SiDi just remembered where he saw your name before : you're the wxBanker dev :P
<SiDi> mrooney, mind if i pm you about wxBanker ?
<mrooney> SiDi: go for it :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-17
<SiDi> Good night peeps
<SiDi> hi
<knome> morning SiDi
<SiDi> heya knome
<SiDi> how're you ?
<knome> i'm fine
<knome> doing some work for studies for once
<SiDi> :P
<knome> well have to do or i have to repeat half a year of my studies
<SiDi> hehe
<SiDi> same here. except that we've done nothing for 3 months and now we're asked to do the whole 6 months of work before end of april
<knome> lol
<knome> i'll shut down my irc to get something done
<knome> see you later
<SiDi> See you
<knome> krhm
<knome> already 2+ pages of 10
<knome> hmm, this was #ubuntu-artwork ...
<Bert_2> Hi, I'm searching for a very specific kind of artwork for the ubuntu based distro I'm making for my 6year old niece (I'm giving her a linux-based computer for her birthday on sunday), now the distro, hannebuntu, should have a nice flower icon thing, a little bit shiny, but not that hard if you can work with graphic stuff, the problem: I'm not a graphics guy so I have no idea how to make it, anyone here know someone who does simple art for free ?
<SiDi> Bert_2, making icons takes times,, and icons themes takes A LOT of time
<Bert_2> SiDi: I meant a background thing
<SiDi> Oh.
<Bert_2> I simply want a purple flower (6 leaves) with a yellow dot in the middle
<Bert_2> with a bit of a crystalised effect
<Bert_2> I know how you guys probably do it
<Bert_2> you draw a circle, do the leaves in plain purple
<Bert_2> and then draw a gradient shape which goes from transparant to white over it
<Bert_2> but I don't know how to do it in programs and I have no idea what form the gradient thing should have :s
<SiDi> Well, i can't do that from where i am :p
<Bert_2> SiDi: but is it easy or hard to do ?
<SiDi> Bert_2, couldn't say. making basic things isn't hard (unless you're used to photoshop and have to use the gimp x_x), but making a well polished wallpaper takes a little bit of time
<Bert_2> SiDi: okey
<SiDi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds check the link there, someone posted links to nice flower photos, that might do for your niece
<SiDi> http://gnome-look.org/content/search.php check for "flower"
<Bert_2> I'll have a look
<Bert_2> SiDi: already tried it
<SiDi> there are a lot of flower wallpapers on gnome-look
<Bert_2> I looked at every flower thing in gnome-look
<Bert_2> (30 pages of flowers)
<Bert_2> most of them are pictures and I was hoping to find nice drawn ones
<Bert_2> but I'm too specific I guess :P
<SiDi> You still can make a request in the mailing list :P
<knome> Bert_2, import in inkscape and trace to path :P
<SiDi> i for sure won't help as i'm just not capable of doing anything, but maybe someone will have spare time.
<Bert_2> knome: I don't know anything about inkscape and just a few things abouyt gimp
<Bert_2> knome: so what do you mean ?
<SiDi> Yeh actually you can aswell pick a photo that has the shape of what you want, and try random filters in gimp or inkscape
<knome> Bert_2, just pick a picture you would like to be drawn
<knome> Bert_2, and paste it
<knome> Bert_2, i'll look at it after some time
<Bert_2> knome: and then...
<knome> Bert_2, well let's see what i can do
<knome> Bert_2, but i will be reading a book for maybe 15mins now :)
<Bert_2> what do I do when I have the picture, what filters should I use ?
<Bert_2> ow, I was gone again
<Bert_2> last thing I got was: [12:10] <knome> Bert_2, just pick a picture you would like to be drawn
<SiDi> knome is doing his homework for the first time, so he's a bit busy ;p </sarcastic>
<Bert_2> SiDi: lol
<Bert_2> I still have to do my homework
<knome> well :P
 * SiDi hides.
<curioso> : /server irc.brasnet.org
<curioso> : /server irc.brasnet.org
<thorwil> robsta: hi, you just entered on me hitting the send button :)
<robsta> hey thorwil
<robsta> thorwil: guess i can join, just don't tell anyone
<thorwil> to the channel: pssst!
 * savvas slashdots robsta 
<robsta> *shrug*
<robsta> my real name is not public in launchpad
<thorwil> robsta: except for the plate naming, i hope you will have more to pull than push ;)
<robsta> indeed
<robsta> i always wanted to join a team
<robsta> thorwil: btw, gnome moved to git, take that into account when updating your css engine checkout next time
<thorwil> robsta: i don't even recall what it was in :)
<robsta> gnome svn
<robsta> now gnome git
 * thorwil -> dinner
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-18
<dashua> kwwii: Should these icons be working for notify-osd?  http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/12670/screenshot_004_xTifT0.png . I only ever see the disconnected icon in network-manager-applet.
<BHSPitLappy> dashua, I think it shows me those whenever it connects to a network
<BHSPitLappy> (it shows me whichever one is correct)
<BHSPitLappy> it doesn't pop up each time my reception changes
<dashua> Hrm, man I only get disconnected here.
<dashua> If I run via command-line I get a notification
<dashua> BHSPitLappy: http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/12675/screenshot_3GUa1y.png
<dashua> That's all I get, but manually
<dashua> Maybe I messed something up here
<MrKeuner> hi, can I find svg version of the abstract backgorund image Flow.png?
<dashua> Nada =/
<MrKeuner> why would that be?
<BHSPitLappy> dashua, yeah, that's strange
<BHSPitLappy> I get "Connected to <name of ssid>" with the signal icon like I said
<dashua> BHSPitLappy: Ah, I got it.
<dashua> I've been using Jaunty since Alpha 3 and the gconf setting still set for disable notifications for nm-applet
<SiDi> hi
<savvas> mmm droid fonts
<savvas> http://www.droidfonts.com/droidfonts/
<savvas> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4924
 * SiDi uses droid here
<SiDi> it's really sexy :d
<kwwii> savvas: I like droid personally, but there are good reasons for not using it on a normal desktops....it was made for small devices and works best on them
<SiDi> (i'm using it on a 15" lappy)
<savvas> kwwii: ok :)
<savvas> yet nothing beats monospace in terminal :P
<savvas> kwwii: is it included in netbook remix?
<kwwii> yes, I think that since jaunty it will be included
<savvas> wonderful! :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-04-19
<bretcolin> someone told me to add my artwork to the wiki for karmic koala and I am so confused do I add my own wiki page or subscribe and upload an attatchment on someone elses page my hands are in the air?
<bretcolin> very confusing
<bretcolin> help me help you
<savvas> help us help you - stay in the channel :P
<SiDi> Hello folks
<thorwil> hi SiDi
<SiDi> Heya thorwil
<SiDi> kudos on your work on the wiki :)
<thorwil> thanks! :)
<SiDi> I went to browse it a little, searching for the wallpaper specifications, and it was much easier to find ^.^
<thorwil> ah, that's who you are ;)
<SiDi> what do you mean ? :O
<thorwil> SiDi: excellent feedback in that most recent mail of yours
<SiDi> the one i just sent ?
<thorwil> yes, about 5 minutes ago
<SiDi> Well, i think it had to be said. it's more or less what i've been told when i first showed my work on graphics forums. if you don't really *work* on an idea, it's not worth trying. (and its because im lazy that i actually dont do artwork at all,  now :p because i know it means *taking the time to do it*)
<thorwil> bret must be kidding us
<SiDi> I think he's a beginner
<thorwil> sure. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Karmic Koala Concept Art
 * thorwil -> food
<SiDi> He's the one who broke the wiki page ? :o
<thorwil> SiDi: he created the page and all edits are his. no idea how he got that result
<thorwil> now it's clean
<thorwil> hrmpf. where can i find an example of comboboxentries in use?
<thorwil> ah, removable drives prefs
<thorwil> toggle, radio and checkbuttons all have an inconsistent state, or?
<SiDi> what do you mean ?
<SiDi> they all have activated/unactivated state afaik
<thorwil> found it in the HIG
<thorwil> http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/images/controls-check-boxes-mixed.png.en
<thorwil> http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/images/controls-radio-button-mixed.png.en
<thorwil> http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/images/controls-toggle-button-mixed.png.en
<SiDi> i see
<SiDi> it doesnt make much sense for the radio buttons though :/
<genii> Hi. Im just curious if anyone is working yet on art for Koala
<thorwil> genii: yes
<genii> Cool.
<genii> Flannel: Geez. You're almost omnipresent
<BHSPitLappy> -Almost-?  Why don't you have a look in your closet.
<SiDi> thorwil: got something you're working on, right now ? :o
 * genii puts a lock on his closet door
<thorwil> SiDi: yes, but not directly for karmic. have enough ideas for that in the pipeline, though :)
<SiDi> okay :)
<genii> Was wondering if there would be a deviation in colour theme for Karmic from orange/brown to something more psychedelic, considering the naming :)
<SiDi> there will
<SiDi> but each time we ask canonical what they planned, they say it'll be pink :P
<genii> Hopefully not that Hot Pink from April Fool's forum theme...
<thorwil> pink is in the discussion
<thorwil> maybe in combination with lime green
<SiDi> its ok as long as its not fuschia :x
<SiDi> but i'd love a pale green colour
<genii> SiDi: I tend to agree
<thorwil> and meditating, levitating koalas of unfathomable grace and wisdom everywhere!
 * thorwil -> dinner
<genii> In eucalyptus wreaths....
<SiDi> have a nice dinner then
<savvas> anyone here? is bug 349572 a gnome-icon-theme problem? there are icons missing for the gpk* programs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349572 in packagekit-gnome "packagekit-gnome .desktop files use not-existing icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349572
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-19
<Beyecixramd> wow... this channel is incredibly empty...
<zniavre> :o)
<Beyecixramd> well hmm... i would like to contribute things, what needs to be done?
<zniavre> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork   everything you should know is inside the website
<zniavre> i m just here to spy and learn a bit i can't help you really
<Beyecixramd> hmmm... zniavre, do you know how a mailing list works? i never suscribed to any mailing lists
<Beyecixramd> how to talk in the mailing list, what's a mailing list about... etc
 * snubby tips hat @ Beyecixramd and zniavre 
<Beyecixramd> hi snubby
<snubby> how's life? @ Beyecixramd
<Beyecixramd> trying to figure out how to contribute in a mialing list :)
<Beyecixramd> mailing*
<Beyecixramd> and why is it so important
<snubby> um cause.. It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! methinks
<Beyecixramd> :|
<Beyecixramd> xDDD
<Beyecixramd> whatever, yumming time
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: hi! the point of using a mailing list is much about having things coming your way, instead of going out to get them (as you would do with a forum)
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: thanks for the reply, still interested :)
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: that subscribing to a mailing list is a bit of a barrier can have positive effect on the quality ...
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: but how do i contribute to a mailing list?
<Beyecixramd> how do i reply to someone else's comments, or start "new threads" etc?
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: you do not contribute to a mailing list, but rather use the list to be informed, to inform others with the same interest and to coordinate collaboration
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: every good mail client has a Reply-to-List feature
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: i use the Gmail webclient...
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: does Gmail have that feature?
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: for a reply you should use the address of the mailing list. somtimes you may want to take something off-list, so you can use the address of the original sender
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: i don't know
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: oh well... so if i send something to a mailing list, everyone who's suscribed to it, will receive the message/suggestion/question/brainstorm/whatever?
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: yes
<Beyecixramd> and how should i reply to comments? gmail by default leaves the text below and the response over the text you're replying to, but almost all forums do it the other way around: quote on top, reply below the quote
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: because i've seen people saying "don't reply that way" but i don't know what's the "adequate way" of doing it
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: you should respond below quotes and ideally only quote what you need for immediate context
<Beyecixramd> so quote, then reply?
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: yes. this way the flow of information is maintained and nobody has to deal with endless mails full of quotes
<Beyecixramd> okay, thank you a lot, i'm suscribing to the ubuntu artwork mailing list right now
<Beyecixramd> btw, i just finished a pack of wallpapers, i'll put a link here so you can give me some constructive feedback :) (any of you)
<thorwil> mailing lists are usually archived online, plus some people keep their own archives, so copying entire discussions for context is unnecessary. contra-productive, even
<Beyecixramd> oh holy **** DanRabbit was online...
 * vish couldnt help laughing ^ ;p
<vish> Beyecixramd: is he not supposed to be? ;)
<Beyecixramd> no no, of course, vish, but i know that guy, he's on dA xD
<Beyecixramd> i mean, i never knew he was usually around here
<vish> ;)
<Beyecixramd> here http://beyecixramd.deviantart.com/art/Duality-161277970
<vish> Beyecixramd: if you want to contribute to elementary you can also try #elementary
<Beyecixramd> vish: i tried to add icons, mainly for KDE, since Elementary is focused on GNOME and there are lots of KDE icons lacking such a beautiful pack... but i don't really know how to work with Inkscape, only GIMP and the likes
<vish> Beyecixramd: iirs , islington has elementary for KDE working
<vish> iirc*
<vish> and we have added those symlinks to elementary recently as well , so it should work in KDE soonish
<Beyecixramd> hmmm... it does work, but lacks icons like Amarok, control center, and KDE specific icons
<vish> ah those..
<Beyecixramd> and Amarok simply CAN'T be replaced by a musical note
<Beyecixramd> imho it should keep the wolf identity of Amarok
<Beyecixramd> Rhthmbox doesn't really have a defined icon, just like iTunes, it's too generic
<Beyecixramd> but unlike WMP, those are the only exceptions i know of
<vish> Beyecixramd: well , if you have a suggestion for the apps you can suggest the icon to the app devs.. RB has been updated recently
<vish> but still a bit generic though
<Beyecixramd> no no
<Beyecixramd> it's okay
<Beyecixramd> i don't really want RB to have its own hmm... identity
<vish> Beyecixramd: totem is looking for an icon , if you want to try out  ;)
<Beyecixramd> haha
<Beyecixramd> it's like the entire GNOME desktop is filled with generic icons
<Beyecixramd> you know, epiphany, totem, empathy (more or less)
<Beyecixramd> but KDE is more like Windows, every icon has its own soul
<vish> Beyecixramd: empathy is the telepathy icon :D
<vish> empathy is also in the works for an udpate
<Beyecixramd> xD
<vish> update*
<Beyecixramd> Empathy feels a bit too much incomplete
<Beyecixramd> it's cool, because follows GNOME standards and specs...
<Beyecixramd> but i think it should be tagged as beta
<vish> Beyecixramd: btw , elementary is not only about icons  .. ;)  there are other ways you can contribute.. though..
 * vish </not trying to pouch folks for elementary>
<Beyecixramd> vish: yeah, GTK and Metacity theming
<Beyecixramd> i just started making GTK themes and my first theme resulted in a total mess of code
<vish> poach*
<Beyecixramd> so i trashed the project
<Beyecixramd> which btw, is not very motivating
<Beyecixramd> oh, vish
<Beyecixramd> maybe you know about this
<Beyecixramd> does GIMP nowadays (2.6.x) have still a color limit?
<Beyecixramd> i heard that GEGL is going to fix that, and GEGL is going to be introduced in GIMP 2.8
<vish> not sure.. but i miss the zoom in the status bar :s
<darkmatter> I think I'm allergic to gnome-shell. I keep sneezing every time I use it or work on the mockups involving it xD
 * darkmatter slaps vish with a stray pixel
 * vish ducks and watches darkmatter's pixel miss him like a matrix slow-mo 
<darkmatter> vish: I had to lash out at someone. trying to adapt my designs to gnome-shells craptastic ui is a PITA ;(
<vish> darkmatter: ha! serves you right ;p  [you were boasting that you were invited]
<darkmatter> vish: bah. I'm still happy with the other bits I'm working on. it's that blasted overlay that drives me nuts you evil little pixel pusher :p
<directhex> so, any sign of that font?
<darkmatter> vish: the problem with the overlay is (aside from being really cluttered, akin to a dumpster) that its exceedingly vertical. it doesn't leave much room to work with organizationally
<vish> Usually in #ubuntu-release there is a factoid !outyet..  Everytime someone asks is it out yet, saying: "Everytime someone asks is the release out yet , Mark Shuttleworth delays the release by 1 hr"  ..
<islington> Beyecixramd> it's cool, because follows GNOME standards and specs...
<vish> kwwii:  maybe we should add a bot for the fonts as well ;p ?
<vish> s/bot/factoid
<islington> Beyecixramd: I think that following the tango spec is a loss
<kwwii> vish: lol, indeed
<islington> since its old
<kwwii> the fonts are not ready and there is no definite time I can give anyone as to when it will be ready
<Beyecixramd> islington: not talking about the GNOME spec, but more precisely, the GTK guidelines, for apps, not for icons
<kwwii> certainly not before lucid release
<vish> directhex: ^
<islington> Beyecixramd: oic! my bad
<directhex> bah humbug
<Beyecixramd> directhex: your name sounds offensive... (directX) haha, kidding
<islington> kwwii: did you see that the kubuntu logo is in the wild?
<vish> islington: there was also a *ubuntu* logo thorwil mentioned in dA
<kwwii> islington: yes, I saw that
<directhex> Beyecixramd, i aim to please
<darkmatter> hmmm... I think what I may have to do is a [<Category> ( * )   (-->)] to list sub items for a particular activity (not outside the overlay). have the star list a dropdown of common items that may not be pinned. have categories like Discover (or Explore... or maybe both) Communicate, Play. hmmm.... *stares at overlay*
<kwwii> islington: I sent the info on, waiting for an answer
<vish> darkmatter: if you cant get categories back , i'll reckon you have awesome convincing skills ;p
<vish> or know voodoo ;p
<darkmatter> vish: lol
<vish> argh! that was can* but i guess you got it ;)
<darkmatter> vish: thank you for mentioning another peeve. we're supposed to be making things 'cleaner' and 'easier' simplification of simplifications sake is wrong. just look at the current incarnation of the shell overlay for evidence ;)
<darkmatter> simplification without purpose (aka: 'dumbing down') actually makes crap more difficult
<vish> !publicyet is reply Everytime someone asks if the font has been released to the public yet or when it will be released , Mark Shuttleworth delays the release by 1 week!"
<darkmatter> vish: the idea behind using actual activities/libraries is that it gets half of the item clutter _out_ of the ui. activities abstract the need to run applications (you don't run them directly). libraries organize thing in a neat and tidy manner (and can function as a marketplace of sorts).
<darkmatter> want to actually run an app directly? "there's a library for that" :P
<vish> ya ya , darkmatter tell that to the -shell folks ;p
<darkmatter> vish: that's why I'm 'gnomifying' stuff, so I can share it with the ui team and try to ram it up the -shell guys assets... errr.... I meant "down their throats"... honest...
<Beyecixramd> hmmm people... someone, on the ubuntu brainstorm said about making an introductory video, so i got an idea
<thorwil> darkmatter builds a trojan horse?
<Beyecixramd> making a Welcome screen (like 7 has) and put a link there to an Impress presentation
<vish> darkmatter: something has been mentioned several times in the mailing list as well , but it just bounces like rubber ;)
<Beyecixramd> extending the stuff shown on the ubiquity slideshow, what do you think about it?
<vish> Beyecixramd: for every boot?
<Beyecixramd> no, for god's sake, only in the first boot, vish
<Beyecixramd> the idea is to have a Welcome window (Mint has one) with a checkbox to "don't show this window in the future"
<troy_s> Why not just stretch a Tango icon up to fill the screen? Tango is easy on the eyes, looks professional, and works on all backgrounds.
<Beyecixramd> and an Impress presentation as a way to introduce Ubuntu to new users
<vish> Beyecixramd: not sure it is required during boot , the ubiquity slideshow is a good time killer , maybe we can just extend it
<vish> troy_s: you are not troy_s !
<troy_s> vish: LOL.
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: space on the CD is tight, (additional) icons on the desktop are not acceptable (anti-clutter policy). doing something only after first boot could be seen as breaking expectations
<Beyecixramd> vish, not during boot, only on the first login
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: it won't be an icon on the desktop, i hate icons on the desktop, it would be only a window giving you useful links to get more out of your Ubuntu setup
<troy_s> vish: Side note, new messaging indicator envelope is awkward as hell. Who committed it?
<vish> troy_s: ha! i want to change it too ;)
<Beyecixramd> troy_s: what do you mean?
<troy_s> vish: It's a mess.
<zniavre> the first envelope from ubuntu-mono was really nice
<troy_s> vish: I hate being the fool that stares at the little details instead of the larger forest (but that's about all we can really do here anyways) but it is very weighty to the lower half at the moment and the linework might need a kick in the ass.
<troy_s> It actually sort of looks like an angry Mr. Yuck.
<vish> yeah , the lines are weird , can be made better..
<vish> looks like the applet has its chest pumped ;p
<troy_s> vish: If better existed. I'd say that it is simply trying to do too much. For whatever reason, someone somewhere decided to create an open envelope and in 22pixels (wtf) it just is a force. It reads as such.
<darkmatter> vish: like, applications library. I actually got the idea when reading over bugs regarding the organization of the app-browser. have the right pane in two columns, listing favorite (or recent) apps for each category, and the ability to click (more) and display the entire category (removes unnecessary clutter and scrolling)
<troy_s> vish: Are you aware of the reasoning to force the issue and open the leaf up?
<vish> troy_s: well , i dont know about that icon change ... but i can guess it is because people complained that green can be distinguished by the color-blind.. so the only option they could do was to change the shape
<vish> cant*
<darkmatter> vish: that frees up the left pane for useful stuff, like access to the application marketplace (embedded software center type stuff), advanced software management, notifications of third party updates, recommendations (or "just in" type stuff). basically it turns it into one-stop shopping as it were
<troy_s> vish: I can't see that. But maybe - I'd expect nothing less than total myopia of design for everyone.
<darkmatter> if it has a logical association, have it accessible from a common location
<vish> darkmatter: "right pane in two columns, listing favorite (or recent) apps for each category, and the ability to click (more)"  seems too much work to just launch an application :s
<darkmatter> vish: not polished yet, but that's a general idea of how the library/marketplace thingy could work.
<darkmatter> vish: I'm not big on running applications, so that particular library hasn't been given much thought yet :P
<thorwil> who needs applications when you can marvel at the activities view swooshing in and out all day?
<darkmatter> vish: but the same general idea holds true for audio/video, etc as well, with the necessary changes of course.
<islington> thorwil: you mean the spinning cube was any better?
<vish> islington: any day ;)
<darkmatter> vish: make what the user is doing paramount. not the tools they are doing it with
<darkmatter> content is the chrome whenever possible and all that
<thorwil> islington: how could i forget that? the cube and wobbly windows are the pinnacle of open-source software and there is actually no need to develop anything any more after them!!
<vish> islington: main problem is  , with the cube it spins after you select the app you want [and if it is in a different desk] , but here it is twice for every window change :/
 * darkmatter has no wobbly nor cube
 * vish bangs for wobble!
<thorwil> darkmatter: you are stiff and round??
<darkmatter> wall/expose/scale is good enough for me
<islington> darkmatter: agreed.
<darkmatter> thorwil: that too :P
<islington> thorwil: surely rgba will be the pinnacle sir
<thorwil> cube and my 6 workspaces wouldn't go well with each other
<islington> actually that was one of the things that bothered me about compiz expo, that pointless black border around the workspaces, kwin does it a lot better imo
<darkmatter> the true pinnacle will be when we have true stereoscopic interfaces with varying focus depending upon where we're looking. then we can all rub our eyes trying to figure out why everything is so blurry xD
<thorwil> Beyecixramd: if you are burning to get creative with text and images, you could have a look at http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
<vish> thorwil: why dont ya like wobbly :(  it feels natural moving things around with wobbly
<darkmatter> islington: yeah, the border/refection/gradient junk is annoying and serves no purpose. I disable it in any plugin that has the option. unfortunately expo doesn't have that option :/
<Beyecixramd> thorwil: i'm going to Mint, suggesting that Impress idea i told you about, anyway
<darkmatter> nap time! I'm all pixelled out from my all nighter! o/
<Beyecixramd> darkmatter: :|
<vish> lmao! >  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk2-engines-murrine/+bug/549281/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 549281 in gtk2-engines-murrine "Crash if gtk_paint_layout is called with widget==NULL" [Medium,Fix committed]
<Beyecixramd> whut, vish?
<vish> Cimi's  the comment that he was updating his profile  ;)
<zniavre> haha
<thorwil> so that's what dilomo is doing these days: http://ankere.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/times-never-enough/
<thorwil> troy_s: http://inspirationlab.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/soyouneedatypeface.jpg
<thorwil> good night!
 * darkmatter awakens and cracks the windows. 22 C! \o/
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-20
<knome> omg
<thorwil> knome: ?
<knome> thorwil
<thorwil> knome: my question was in response to your utterance of the abbreviation "omg", with my hope being to be informed about what stimulant excited you to the degree reaching beyond your "omg" threshold
<knome> too hot (22c)
<thorwil> oh well, we may reach 16Â°C max, today
<knome> heh
<knome> it's about 6c here
<zniavre> good morning
<zniavre> does the strange huge border around picture with nautilus will stay like that ?
<zniavre> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/187396/Capture-1.png
<bdrung> is this the right channel to find graphics designer? can someone convert the svg icon of audacious into a monochrome one that integrates well with ubuntu's default themes (bug #563043)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563043 in audacious "audacious2.png alpha blending is wrong" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/563043
<vish> zniavre: thats a new "feature" of nautilus.. probably we can file a bug ;)
<vish> bdrung: yup , right channel ;)  the bug has already been fixed right?
<bdrung> vish: this is the bug where you can find the svg file.
<vish> bdrung: ah.. k.. but how do you plan to fix it? in audacious or in ubuntu-mono?  the icon is different for the different panels
<bdrung> ubuntu-mono
<bdrung> audacious will use audacious-panel as icon if it exists (otherwise it will fall back to audacious)
<vish> bdrung: hmm , kwwii mentioned ubuntu-mono was closed for lucid ..
<vish> kwwii:  can we add it in ubuntu-mono for lucid?
<kwwii> vish: yes
<kwwii> vish: send me the icon(s)
<vish> kwwii: neat .. there is also another bug , we have missed a few symlinks , we could fix that as well ;)
<kwwii> vish: cool, if you have a list of things to change give it to me
<kwwii> vish: note that the mono icons should not show up anywhere other than the panel
<vish> kwwii: yup , it just happens we have a few less symlinks in ubuntu-mono and they happen to fallback to humanity :s
<bdrung> if the icon is called audacious-panel, it will show up only in the panel
<kwwii> bdrung: right
<kwwii> bdrung: I was just telling vish that to make sure he didn't suggest adding symlinks we purposely don't want
<kwwii> :-)
<bdrung> kwwii: why don't you use the simplified dh 7 in ubuntu-mono?
<kwwii> dh 7?
<vish> bdrung: the changelog format?
<bdrung> kwwii: debian/rules
<kwwii> bdrung: ahhh, no idea...I am not the most amazing packager around
<bdrung> file:///usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny
<kwwii> :p
<bdrung> use this tiny rule
<kwwii> bdrung: thanks for the tip :-)
<bdrung> yw
<bdrung> i can't resist improving ugly looking rule files ;)
<kwwii> lol
<bdrung> i am not an artist - i am packager
<kwwii> I could use a refresher course in packaging
<darkmatter> http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8163/screenshotrtq.png
<zniavre> darkmatter,  how did you install this nautilus ?
<darkmatter> zniavre: grabbed the 2.30 branch of nautilus elementary from lp. then built myself the rpms :)
<zniavre> a ok
<zniavre> ho i should try a checkinstall too maybe
<darkmatter> zniavre: I'm pretty sure ubuntu has a ppa for lucid
<zniavre> not yet
<zniavre> and m not lucky with make process >http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/src-94969
<darkmatter> did you grab the correct branch?
<zniavre> bzr branch lp:nautilus-elementary
<darkmatter> ahhh... wrong branch. sec
<darkmatter> zniavre: bzr branch lp:nautilus-elementary/2.30
<darkmatter> for lucid
<zniavre> haaaa ok
<zniavre> darkmatter,  thank you it compiling now
<darkmatter> np
<zniavre> hey it works
<zniavre> :o)
<darkmatter> :)
<zniavre> im disappointed about the breadcrumb style (its pixmap stuff, i thought it was hardcoded )
<darkmatter> yeah. I'll be modding it to look like the official gnome3 mockups (elementary is a good base because it's so heavily modded already
<zniavre> i like the rgba stuff for rounded menus
<zniavre> http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9492/capture1tr.png
<darkmatter> :)
<darkmatter> the pixmap breadcrumbs aren't that bad. they changed the classes for easier theming, plus it makes it more flexible. you could make it look like links, simple dots or forward arrows, etc.
<zniavre> ok
<zniavre> do you think gnome will integrate some feature of elementary as zoom slider ?
<kwwii> vish: did you put together a list of missing links?
<kwwii> vish: and a link to the bug would be nice as well...cannot seem to find it
<vish> re
<vish> kwwii: just a sev
<vish> sec*
<kwwii> vish: cool, than ks
<vish> bdrung: the audacious icon was added , will be available in the next update
<vish> s/added/included
<bdrung> vish: thanks. how does the monochrome icon look like?
<vish> !test
<ubottu> hrm?
<vish> bdrung: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/audaci.png
<kwwii> bdrung: any reason why you removed the universe sponsors from my extra wallpaper package?
<darkmatter> lol. I have a ton of crap to build and package :D
<bdrung> kwwii: bug number?
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/563940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 563940 in ubuntu "ubuntu-wallpapers-extra freeze exception (dup-of: 564400)" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 564400 in ubuntu-wallpapers "FFE: Backgrounds from Karmic version deleted" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<knome> hey kwwii :)
<kwwii> hey knome
<knome> how are you? doing fine, feeling well etc.?
<kwwii> knome: yepp, doing well
<kwwii> knome: yourself?
<knome> i'm fine. working hard to get work for next year since i'm graduating. do you have any it-related projects in mind which would need an artist and/or web developer? :P
<kwwii> nothing off the top of my head, but I'll keep you in mind...I hear about things from time to time
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> remote work would be pretty much a requirement for me though :(
<kwwii> that is a somewhat limiting factor, but not necessarily too bad
<bdrung> kwwii: you needed a FFe first.
<knome> kwwii, yeah. pretty much don't have any other requirements, except it would be nice to get at least *some* money ;)
<bdrung> kwwii: did you upload it (fix committed indicates this)
<bdrung> ?
<kwwii> bdrung: yes, it is uploaded and I wanted to get an FFe with that bug
<kwwii> it references a real bug which would be fixed by it
<kwwii> and canonical does want it to happen :-)
<kwwii> my main freeze exceptions were taken care of by ubuntu-main-sponsors, so I assumed *-universe-* would be correct
<bdrung> kwwii: first, ubuntu-main-sponsors and ubuntu-universe-sponsors were merged to ubuntu-sponsors. second, ubuntu-release is responsible for granting FFe. ubuntu-sponsors only for sponsoring packages.
<bdrung> kwwii: it's uploaded - i am removing ubuntu-sponsors
<bdrung> kwwii: was it really uploaded to the archive? i can't see it in the queue
<kwwii> bdrung: no, it was not uploaded to the archive
<kwwii> bdrung: I need to subscribe ubuntu-release then
<kwwii> I have never tried to get stuff in so late before :p
 * darkmatter makes replacement clock faces http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1593/screenshotqk.png ;D
<kwwii> darkmatter: nice
<kwwii> the outline seems a bit pixelated to me though
<kwwii> perhaps make it thinner or somewhat transparent
<kwwii> then again, I don't know which style you inteded
<kwwii> intended
<kwwii> if it should look realiistic reduce the outline
<darkmatter> kwwii: bah. it's because the applet uses svgs for the clock faces. they always pixelate :/
<kwwii> darkmatter: which file does it use? I might try my hand at something
<darkmatter> kwwii: a bunch of them in /usr/share/gnome-panel/pixmaps. I'm _thinking_ on playing with translucent 'window scenes' in the clock faces for various times of day, but that may be a bit busy
<kwwii> wtf? the images in that dir are interesting to say the least
<kwwii> not sure I get what you mean...
<kwwii> at least I now know the bg of the map is easy to change
<darkmatter> yup
<kwwii> old-wanda and gegl seem like important images to shiÃ¼
<kwwii> ship
<darkmatter> hehe
<kwwii> bdrung: so pitti says get the package uploaded...can you do that?
<bdrung> kwwii: i am on it. the package needs some love
<kwwii> thanks
<kwwii> I appreciate it
<bdrung> kwwii: where should the packaging branch be stored?
<bdrung> i think lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-wallpaper-extra is the right place (therefore no extra branch is required)
<bdrung> uploaded
<bdrung> kwwii: there is a difference between subscribing a team and assigning a team. subscribing is the correct one.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-21
<bdrung> vish: where can i checkout the ubuntu-mono branch?
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! your posts appear double on http://design.canonical.com
<vish> thorwil: well, of course , he is twice as important ;)
<thorwil> heh
<kwwii> thorwil: indeed they do
<kwwii> funny that
<kwwii> but not all of them
<vish> any kde folks around?
<vish> not ex-kde ;p
<kwwii> hehe, I am still involved in kde :p
<kwwii> inkscapers.deviantart.com/blog/31687017/
<kwwii> in case anyone hasn't seen them yet
<kwwii> Inkscape 0.48 About Screen
<andreasn> http://theartcontinuum.deviantart.com/art/Unimount-Uniscape-159892099 heh
<andreasn> this one is a bit nice http://hrum.deviantart.com/art/inkscape-0-48-160741667
<kwwii> andreasn: intresting
<kwwii> all in all, there are quite a few good ones
<thorwil> i was more impressed with previous contests
<andreasn> there are a couple that is almost there, but not quite
<andreasn> http://foxbit.deviantart.com/art/Inkscape-0-48-Image-Contest-158808358 <- this one is a bit like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50BBNZ-ejjU&feature=related
<thorwil> yeah, just lacks being awesome
<andreasn> like a 80:s broadcast company logo
<darkmatter> yay. now I have a wad of gauze up my nostril and I've cleaned the blood off my keyboard
<thorwil> tmi
<darkmatter> was not
<thorwil> hrmpf. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IsraeliTeam/NewLogos2010
<darkmatter> lol. team jew!
<thorwil> 19 entries and i would eliminate every single one of them (entries, not creators)
 * thorwil is depressed
<darkmatter> that wasn't a racist remark btw. it was an observation. the logo shouldn't scream at the user. I mean isn't this supposedly the era of clean and tasteful?
<thorwil> darkmatter: didn't take your comment as anything but humorous. i don't see screaming as the issue, but rather cramming stuff into tiny circles (drawing the logo large and then forgetting that it will be shown much smaller in most cases)
<darkmatter> thorwil: aye.
<andreasn> this is what I did for the Ubuntu Sweden logo for a poster. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/184285/ubuntu-sverige.svg
<andreasn> does the loco logos have a tendency to get complicated?
<thorwil> andreasn: they have a tendency to be stuff added / crammed into the basic ubuntu logo
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, but we are going to include info on how best to make other logos
<andreasn> kwwii, good
<andreasn> do it quick, or let people know you are intending too. The Swedish team already started a thread doing various odd things on their forum
<darkmatter> thorwil: canada would be easy. replace the 'heads' on the logo with maple leaves. score! \o/
<andreasn> I guess you have that release thing you need to finish first though :)
<thorwil> darkmatter: nah, a southparkian canadian 2-part head instead of the circle
<darkmatter> :P
 * kwwii gets lunch
<islington> like the new website kwwii
<kwwii> islington: cool
<knome> the new website is crap
<knome> oops :P
<knome> no, i really wait for the complete transformation
<kwwii> yeah, indeed
<vish> islington: hi ,you use Kubuntu , right? could you have a look at this bug > Bug 566996 .. not sure what happened there , i use ubutnu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566996 in humanity-icon-theme "Bug in humanity-icon-theme: Using KDE (from Kubuntu 10.04) + Humanity icon does not show kmixer or related icon on system tray." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566996
<vish> hmm what website are you folks talking about...
<knome> vish, microsoft.com
<vish> knome: wow , that looks nice indeed ..
<islington> vish installing it now
<vish> islington: thanks..
<kwwii> vish: my guess is that they were ported to indicators
<kwwii> vish: I run kde, I'll check as well
<vish> kwwii: neat thanks.. might be the change , but the icon does exist for the indicators as well
<kwwii> hrm, the last update killed that machine
<kwwii> some problem with the encrypted home dir
<islington> where are the lucid packages online again?
<islington> nvrmind found it
<islington> vish in  /status/*/ some symlinks are pointing to nothing
<islington> they are audio-volume-high, audio-volume-low audio-volume-medium
<vish> islington: you mean the .png symlinks?
<islington> yes
<vish> that was to solve a blurring problem in gnome :s
<vish> rather in gtk*
<islington> those pngs are needed to show the volume image in kde
<islington> *icon
<vish> islington: in the karmic version we just had the svg icons there , the png symlinks were added recently in lucid..
<islington> also needed :audio-volume-muted.png
<vish> is to just render the icon as a png and install it , rather than using the symlinks ..  ;)
<vish> islington: btw , the symlinks just point to the svg , somehow that is the way gtk likes it  :)
<islington> let me see if any of the svgs show up gimme a sec
<islington> yeah all the indicator icons are screwy
<islington> battery, network,
<islington> some of the weather icons show up
<islington> worse I think in kde 4.5 plasma is going to draw those icons
<islington> vish are you sure the symlinks for the pngs is correct? all the other svg symlinks give me a preview
<AoP|Boss> hello
<islington> writing a list of the symlinks needed
<AoP|Boss> any pixel artists here?
<AoP|Boss> doesnt matter how experienced, im making a game and i need someone
<AoP|Boss> anyone? :P
<AoP|Boss> bleh ok
<AoP|Boss> anyone interested in doing graphics for an open-source game?
<AoP|Boss> peace
 * thorwil wonders how hard it would be to turn etherpad into a wiki
<islington> vish will add more as I find them:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/566996/comments/8
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566996 in humanity-icon-theme "Bug in humanity-icon-theme: Using KDE (from Kubuntu 10.04) + Humanity icon does not show kmixer or related icon on system tray." [Wishlist,New]
<vish> islington: actually it is a hack.. the symlinks are just named as .png , otherwise the icon becomes blurry , in the volume button , it is a bug in gtk
<vish> we could just add the rendered png , but i'm not sure we will get an update for lucid :s
<vish> islington: do mention any other symlinks we require , we will add them
<islington> vish dont add png symlinks, kde is reading svg symlinks fine
<vish> yeah , i'll just add them as files..
<islington> where are the weather icons located?
<vish> islington: they are in the status folder
<vish> islington: are you asking about the 22/24px weather icons? well , we dont have them yet ;p
<vish> only the 16 and 48px are there ..
<islington> vish ah cool
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-22
<HFactor> hi all,
<HFactor> where can I get the new brand official art works ?
<HFactor> I checked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official i can find the old design, not the new Ubuntu logo
<HFactor> dashua: Daviey elky Flannel knome kwwii PING
<HFactor> vish: wgrant ziroday zniavre PING
<HFactor> hi all,  where can I get the new official art works as SVG ? I checked https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official i can find the old design, not the new Ubuntu logo ? I need it for release party
<knome> argh
<knome> /topic The new artwork is not published yet, please do not ask us.
<knome> iainfarrell, would it make sense to update the official artwork pages so people looking for the new stuff wouldn't step in here and ping and bang and flood us all the time. cheers!
<iainfarrell> hey knome yes it would
<iainfarrell> and that's coming
<iainfarrell> but while I have assets
<iainfarrell> I don't have completed guidelines for their use
<iainfarrell> and we need to give you the assets and guides as a set
<iainfarrell> otherwise there's no point us designing up these things
<iainfarrell> I'm pushing to get these as soon as we can
<iainfarrell> but it's better that we wait
<iainfarrell> because the alternative is
<iainfarrell> we half implement new themes
<knome> i understand. i don't mean you should upload anything. just tell them it's not here yet
<iainfarrell> and it doesn't look quite right
<iainfarrell> but we kinda live with it
<iainfarrell> I think it's probably better we're reminded it looks old and update it properly
<iainfarrell> if that makes sense
<iainfarrell> <phew!>
<iainfarrell> that was a lot to type before 10am :)
<thorwil> well, seems a number of locos are rushing it
<knome> yes, sure it makes sense
<knome> but it doesn't make sense that people come knocking and asking it all the time
<knome> when you just could tell them "it's not ready to be published yet"
<knome> (sorry to be a bit harsh but i'm agitated by a privacy failure which i couldn't stop)
<nelf_> Hi, just want to check. Is the indicator icon for file transfer in nautilus updated in lucid?
<nelf_> The lines in that icon seem thin compared to the other icons, do i file a bug report for it? thanks
<vish> nelf_: that icon/item is supposed to be removed from the menu
<vish> !publicyet is reply Everytime someone asks if the font has been released to the public yet or when it will be released , Mark Shuttleworth delays the release by 1 week!"
<vish> knome: hence i suggested a response like that ^ ;p
<vish> well , we can change the "font" to "anything remotely related to art"
<knome> that's not prefect either
<knome> *perfect
<knome> it should reflect reality.
<vish> yeah, we could add it in the topic , everyday there is atleast on person asking :s
<vish> one*
<knome> exactly. though i don't know if the ADHD people read the topic
<vish> knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Officia does that sound better?
<vish> grr , where is the l :s
<vish> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
<zniavre_> the first official aubergine touch'
<knome> vish, that's better. could we somehow also say "font" :P
 * vish adds that too
<knome> great. thanks a lot for that.
<vish> zniavre_: unofficial rather ;p
 * darkmatter feeds vish to the rather large house spider he just discovered before splatting it into goo
<vish> darkmatter: well , i wish the spider's soul mate takes revenge on you!
<vish> poor spider :s
<darkmatter> yes. poor wolf spider. the damn thing bite :p
<vish> ;)
<darkmatter> any species I encounter that can't keep it's mandibles to itself get a thwap :P
<darkmatter> vish: lol. even though metro is the new ms 'thing', they keep changing what metro is http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/zt/2010/ZUNE-4.5-UPDATE.jpg
<darkmatter> kinda like the amarok devs xD
<knome> o'rly
<darkmatter> I still think amarok needs an "apply random ui on startuo" option >_>
<darkmatter> startup*
<vish> heh , i tried amarok once and got fed up after using it for around 1 hr :/
<darkmatter> vish. the new amarok __looks_ nice but it's still a pile of crap
 * darkmatter snuggles banshee
<knome> 1.x was nice
<knome> 2.x is crap
<darkmatter> by nice I mean the toolbar
<darkmatter> vushit looks mo' bettah silly when gnomified though http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9625/screenshotos.png
<kwwii> ook, gtkparasite, just what I have always wanted
<zniavre_> it looks good stuff for themers
<zniavre_> but i understound nothing really how to use info it gives
<zniavre_> :o)
<knome> kwwii, thatis what?
<kwwii> chipx86.github.com/gtkparasite/
<zniavre_> it's in ubuntu repo's
<kwwii> indeed
<kwwii> it introspects gtk apps
<kwwii> which makes gtk themeing much easier
<knome> uhh
<knome> right
<knome> loks great
<knome> looks
<zniavre_> you can modify the layout of an application window (even if i do not understand how to saved it or to make it real)
<kwwii> for instance, I just figured out how to change the style of rhythmbox's slider
<kwwii> zniavre_: it is about testing, not saving changes
<zniavre_> ha good to know thank you    :o)
<kwwii> :)
<vish> kwwii: gnome-art ;p , i just noticed that as well .. thanks andreasn ;)
<vish> the gtk-parasite*
<kwwii> yeah
 * darkmatter shudders at the mention of gnome-art
<vish> i had seen that a while ago , but was wondering how to install and use it. good that its in the repos:s
<darkmatter> gnome-art needs some serious quality control. since it's official. leave the amateur crap for gnome-look
<darkmatter> vish: lol. someone just tried to win against my amarok2 sucks argument a 'it's kde' type statement, and therefore must be one of the best apps ever
<knome> kde is the worst
<knome> :X
<vish> renames knome to xnome ;p
<vish> knome: initially i always though you were a KDE user ;)
<vish> thought*
<darkmatter> knome: meh. kde's no worse than gnome. I just find "it rocks because of <x toolkit> < y environment> arguments to be nonsensical. I judge every piece of software on an individual basis
<knome> vish, heh ;)
<knome> darkmatter, it's no worse, but xfce beats them both clearly.
<andreasn> darkmatter, art.gnome.org isn't really maintained, but I think thos is open to someone taking over the moderation of things
<vish> knome: meh , LXDE beats xfce ;p
<knome> vish, nah.
<vish> \o/  yay darkmatter is going to take it up and rescue art.gnome.org
<darkmatter> knome: like my reasonng behind "amarok sucks". it's not because it's qt4 or kde, it's because it sucks up more resources than firefox with 68 tabs open ;p
<knome> yeah.
<darkmatter> btw. aisleriot should be more like the current kpat imo.
<knome> kpat?
<darkmatter> kpatience. kde's solitare
<knome> right
<darkmatter> knome: theme not being relevant http://www.kde.org/images/screenshots/kpatience.png
<knome> what is relevant then? :P
<knome> the theme inside the game?
<darkmatter> clean clutter free (as in the ass backwards animation library) animations. the game selection screen, stuff like that. it's more polished at the actual game level, al the kde games are (once again, the games themselves, not the decks or tilesets or themes)
<knome> okay
<knome> really don't have opinion or even insight on that.
<knome> haven't played games pretty much at all on linux.
<darkmatter> aesthetics are definitely important, but aesthetics alone aren't a sign of quality
<knome> true
<darkmatter> knome: neither do I. the games are just an example of how things should be done. each environment/app has it's own aesthetic qualities, but polish the crap out of them in general. form/function as a whole. can't really have one without the other. regardless of what others may say, code and graphics are inseparable imho.
<knome> agree
<darkmatter> tack design in there and we have a holy trinity
<knome> that's why it's also weird artists are valued so low in oss
<darkmatter> aye
<darkmatter> knome: like the redesign of nautilus that has been proposed (many a mockup by the design team, I'll be submitting a few of my own to the dropbox folder). I see _zero_ work being done to implement it (or anything similar to it) :/
<darkmatter> it's not perfect by any means, but the ui is a hack of a lot more friendly than that currently offered. it's also more pleasing aesthetically
<darkmatter> heck*
<darkmatter> it's so frustrating I fetched the nautilus sources to work on xD
<darkmatter> if nothing else I want to implement the general (proposed) ui revisions when I have enough time to play with the code
<knome> yeah
<knome> darkmatter, you might be interested in shimmerproject.org, which i'm leading.
<knome> darkmatter, that's somewhat working with both code and graphics, and trying to make them work together.
<darkmatter> cool
<knome> (#shimmer also)
<darkmatter> k. sec
<darkmatter> vish: I'm currently adapting my sojourn concepts to nautilus \o/
<vish> darkmatter: first we need to get zeitgeist in there..
<darkmatter> aye
<thorwil> ugh. http://blog.diegoturcios.net16.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Untitled1.png
<thorwil> i provided a set of alternatives and they go with that thing instead. the "hn" is not even on the same baseline
<darkmatter> hrmmm... still off (ignore the sidebar. haven't started on that yet) http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3306/nautilusdesktopwip.png
<zniavre> i like the search aera
<vish> darkmatter: mockup or.. a working version?
<darkmatter> zniavre: I'm playing with spacing and buttons on the left and stuff, trying to get it balanced
<darkmatter> vish: currently still mockup. I don't want to touch the code until I at least am pleased with the toolbar
<darkmatter> but basically something akin to that look
<vish> darkmatter: any reason the breadcrumbs is not aligned ?[ protrudes a bit to the left ]
<darkmatter> vish: lol. no. hadn't noticed it :P
<vish> darkmatter: also , you could drop the "x"  for the sidepane , seems user testing has users confused about how to return the sidepane once they close it from there
<darkmatter> vish. sidebar has yet to be mocked up ;)
<darkmatter> I'm just pixel pushing overtop the default nautilus :P
<vish> darkmatter: hrmm , "default nautilus" probably not the best place to start a nautilus mockup ;)
<darkmatter> vish: I am considering merging the search and location/breadcrumbs into an omnibar type thing
<vish> darkmatter: whats the idea behind the dropdown in search?
<darkmatter> vish: but alas I have to hack on the vanilla code, so mocking up on the base makes sense :P
<darkmatter> vish: selection of location. I'll probably kill it
<darkmatter> vish: I'm thinking for longish chains of breadcrums to have them autoscroll by one or two entries to avoid the stupid "<" ">" nautilus currently implements
<darkmatter> that and I cant decide whether to colorize the active or inactive crumbs :P
<vish> darkmatter: what you could do is , have the words shorten and overlap... once the location gets too long , Ho.>Doc.>New.>
<vish> but needs to be visually present well  enough though
<darkmatter> hmmm... yeah, ellipsising may do the trick
<darkmatter> vish: there. I grabbed some munchies and fixed your alignment issue http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4244/nautilusdesktopwip2.png
<kwwii> darkmatter: better :-)
<vish> darkmatter: hmm , not sure if it is better , seems more interesting when misaligned :D
<vish> ;p
<darkmatter> lol
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> two people, three opinions, now you know life is normal
<darkmatter> vish: yeah. the misaligned version has more character and will probably fit better once the sidebar is redone :P
<darkmatter> plus it has more even spacing ;)
<kwwii> depending on font and icon size, size of the sidebar, etc. the breadcrumb will probably need all the space it can get as well
<darkmatter> vish: hmmm... I should hide the user name when in that users home. since its the same function as the home button. change the sidebar to a home label as well perhaps
<kwwii> darkmatter: perhaps try the name next to the home dir icon and then the icon?
<darkmatter> when the sidebar is used that is... hehe *has evil plans for the content of the window*
<vish> darkmatter: an old mockup , i had done.. this was based off garetts > http://1vish.deviantart.com/art/just-another-nautilus-mockup-155715228
<darkmatter> :o
<zniavre> already the zoom slider
<kwwii> I would like to see how that works with the global menu
<darkmatter> vish: yeah, seen it. I just think garrets was two 'I wish I was a mac' :P I'm trying to be more modest while attempting to avoid any distinct reference to mac or win... not easy :P
<vish> yeah , for some reason i never liked the global menu
<darkmatter> I'm thinking Layout (tentative name) and View Mode under the sidebar area, zoom slider in the same place as every other mockup. _thinking_. I'll have to futz around with it a bit
<darkmatter> try to minimize the chrome as much as possible while keeping useful crap exposed to the user
<vish> do we really need a zoom? for the file manager?
<darkmatter> well no. since its in the menu already
<vish> it was the in thing when i was doing the mockup though ;p
<zniavre> :o)
<darkmatter> though view mode and layout may be handy. especially the layout. hehe *grins evilly*
<darkmatter> vish: I'm thinking of dropping the statusbar in favor of a... nm... can't spoil the surprise ;)
<vish> darkmatter: poop tray / poop bar ;p
 * vish couldnt stop laughing when Seth mentioned it in his blog ;)
<darkmatter> vish: lol. sorta. kinda like the nautilus wireframe mockups but thin instead of "OMG I ATE A WHALE!" (its not the pooper though, more of a contextual bar in the filer)
<darkmatter> the pooper is just a glorified OS/2 warp dock anyway :P
<darkmatter> vish: but yeah. maybe slightly pooper-ish. in the mockup it's going to have a listview-headerish look (my listviews are teh hawtness)
<kwwii> hi michaelforrest, just popping around to ask if there is an icon to make?
<darkmatter> hmmm... what am I up to now? http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3306/nautilusdesktopwip.png ;o
<darkmatter> vish: ^
<darkmatter> hmmm... I'm wondering if I should make the breadcrumbs more button like (akin to the software center ones), then at the right end have a <separator> <edit> thingy. clicking edit would switch the area befor the separator into an entry.
<darkmatter> then have a semi-dynamic spot that would have edit-clear in entry mode (only when typing) and say, bookmark-new in button mode to bookmark the current location... hmmm
<darkmatter> so much to figure out
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-23
<islington> anyone know the amount of work required to make a kde wallpaper package?
<islington> If I have an SVG wallpaper should I still make render for different resolutions? Both kde and gnome seem to handle svgs as wallpaper fine.
<knome> islington, svg's can be slow to render, so especially with low-end pc's that might be an issue.
<knome> islington, so yes, i'd rather export the svg, but also include the svg in the source package so people can do whatever they want with it
<vish> darkmatter: desktopwip! neat! starting clean is better ;)
<darkmatter> ;)
<vish> thorwil: how does the <<Include(Artwork/PageTemplate/Header)>>  work?  do we have to create a new template..
<vish> for the wiki^
<darkmatter> vish: I actually came up with something better :P
<darkmatter> so after coffee I'm starting mockups. I'll still finish up the nautilus crap as well, but lets build a real library ;)
<darkmatter> I should really do up a theme too so I can have pretty widgets, but meh. I can always redraw it later
<thorwil> vish: what do you want to do thereÃ
<vish> thorwil: nothing there , wanted to add something similar to the ayatana wiki links
<thorwil> vish: well, the include simply adds what is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/PageTemplate/Header
<vish> ah ha!
<vish> thorwil: thanks :)
<thorwil> np
<thorwil> vish: i think once you took care of that, i will never have to touch that wiki again and can leave it all to you! ;)
<vish> thorwil: whaaaaaaT ?
<thorwil> my imaginary doctor prescribed that i stay away from the wiki to help cure my inferior-infrastructure related depression
<vish> ;p
<darkmatter> vish: the gtk pimps better hurry up and give us the client side deco crap. having all that wasted space makes my cry :/
<vish> darkmatter: well switch to Ubuntu , we have more client side deco ;)
<vish> darkmatter: they havent landed upstream yet ;p
<darkmatter> vish: I mean in general. what I'm mocking up has to fit on all distros :P
<darkmatter> it's the realist in me ;)
<darkmatter> I'm taking a break from the crustacean to gnomify Sojourn
<darkmatter> it has no menubar, which helps. but meh. I should slap together a metacily for the mockups
<thorwil> http://typographica.org/2010/on-typography/making-geometric-type-work/
<islington> I was reading a book on typography yesterday and I came away understanding , that I did not understand very much, even worse I did not even know what I did not understand
<vish> :D
<thorwil> islington: that sounds like my relation to programming
<thorwil> the durian project wants to make troy_s cry: http://durian.blender.org/news/logo-identity-design/
<troy_s> thorwil: Yeah that's a little unfortunate.
<troy_s> islington: You know what? That's a pretty damn astute comment. What book out of curiosity?
<knome> thorwil, there's nice ones at http://www.blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181&sid=b3bc297f1a4f044f44fb119c3a170b76
<troy_s> Ugh. I think that link bears the whole contest-driven-output model issue out well.
<thorwil> knome: in my eyes, there are very few there with potential and not a single one that is ready. most are childish
<knome> yep.
<troy_s> And apparently people can't follow a brief to save their lives.
<troy_s> There are some pretty talented artists attracted to Blender. I suspect Ton will likely look at that smattering and simply go back to the standouts and let them design it.
<knome> :P
<thorwil> http://i41.tinypic.com/2psoozd.jpg would be great for a heavy metal band, i guess
<islington> troy_s: http://www.amazon.com/Typography-Essentials-Design-Principles-Working/dp/1592535232/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272053196&sr=8-1
<troy_s> islington: Oh I'm jealous. Rockport makes some terrific work.
<troy_s> islington: Haven't seen that one yet, but I'd bet it is a tome of amazing info.
<troy_s> islington: They make some lovely books. Compendiums of very good worth.
<troy_s> islington: Did you buy it?
<islington> yeah I went down to borders, and read it for a while ended up buying it
<troy_s> islington: As a side note, I _just_ stumbled across the Layout Essentials (all on grids) and it was _fantastic_.
<troy_s> islington: I'm so jealous.
<troy_s> islington: I bet it's as solid as their other stuff. Does it reference Tschichold?
<islington> so far it goes through like "word" alphabet page
<islington> then it lists like a dictionary the concept its uses and real world examples
<islington> *word/alphabet/page are the meta categories
<troy_s> islington: Lovely. So it's practical in terms of scope. Is there theory?
<islington> yes but it only references theory, so I end up have to look that stuff up
<thorwil> good night! :)
<islington> for example in kerning it just says why kerning is done but its very short
<troy_s> islington: Well kerning is really a sort of subclass of composition.
<troy_s> islington: So knowing the basics of composition and training your eye for value / practise goes pretty much hand in hand with kerning. It's why I value type so much.
<troy_s> islington: When you actually get past all the idiots that talk about some Utopian 'readability' rubbish, you really see the art and architecture of it. It's a microcosm of art / design that is so constrained that it really is a delicate razor of a field.
<troy_s> islington: Especially when you see how type fits into history. Typographers are pretty much ear-to-the-ground on art / design, and as such, typography has a perfect parallel with the other disciplines of movement. See Postmodernist type for example.
<islington> dude yes, I honestly did not have clue that it is that mature of a field. I started reading it because I wanted to make a typographic wallpaper, but after reading this I was like what I had so far was shit
<troy_s> islington: You know what, if you aren't saying that daily, you aren't doing your study. lol.
<islington> lol how true :(
<troy_s> islington: I'm 40, have spent a whole life pretty much fascinated with art and design and I _still_ challenge myself to rethink things.
<troy_s> islington: There are a few amazing bloody TED talks on it if you are interested (the whole 'art / design as cultural movement' meme)
<islington> well actually i started doing some research when I watched a docu about Helvetica
<troy_s> islington: This one is on point - http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/thelma_golden_how_art_gives_shape_to_cultural_change.html1
<islington> then I did my gedit logo proposal and I realized I did not actually know anything
<troy_s> islington: Clever woman. It is more relevant and on point because she specifically tackles African American art...
<troy_s> islington: Oh... That's damn positive!
<troy_s> islington: That means you have become aware of your role in the Denning Kruger effect.
<troy_s> lol
<islington> lol
<troy_s> islington: This is John Cleese's take on it. I swear we need this pinned to the forehead of every member of our culture. http://gregorywood.co.uk/journal/cleese-on-creativity
<troy_s> islington: When it comes to art and design, that is _precisely_ why our culture stinks.
<troy_s> islington: Very hilarious though.
<troy_s> islington: John Cleese sums up Denning / Kruger well.
<islington> did you see the ted talk about where a woman was talking about why ancient civilization had so few "troubled" artists?
<troy_s> islington: Erk. Dunning Kruger rather.
<troy_s> islington: NO!
<troy_s> islington: Linky!
<islington> hold on googling
<troy_s> islington: There is are some fantastic ones on art / design there.
<troy_s> islington: Chris Bangles is fricking awe inspiring if only because when I was watching it I immediately was considering the evolution of computing / computers / etc. with it.
<islington> http://www.ted.com/speakers/elizabeth_gilbert.html
<islington> http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html
<troy_s> islington: YUM. Thanks.
<troy_s> islington: I'd highly recommend some of the other Rockport stuff.
<troy_s> islington: You really need to make TWO purchases to round out your type books: Bringhurst and Tschichold.
<troy_s> islington: (Great title of that talk. It is exactly what _we_ need to do!)
<islington> will check those out ,definately!
<troy_s> islington: Tschichold is a _perfect_ example of someone that more of us need to heed.
<troy_s> islington: Because he forks off into the Constructivists.
<troy_s> islington: And this fellow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Lissitzky See if you can see why there might be something for us to learn from the Suprematists and Constructivists.
<troy_s> islington: In particular, this piece. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_the_Whites_with_the_Red_Wedge
<troy_s> islington: (Ignore the communist connections etc.)
<troy_s> islington: (The bigger point that an entire art movement was formed around a reaction to the society that they lived in.)
<troy_s> islington: (And was actually _executed_ in response to that culture. A movement with such great an impact that you can browse any corner store and see some of their work handed down and iterated over on even the most cheap magazine cover)
<troy_s> islington: (Executed being 'created' here. )
<troy_s> islington: (Although in fact, some of the Constructivists went 'missing' thanks to the regime at the time - they were that influential.)
<troy_s> islington: You interested at all in that?
<troy_s> islington: Or did it just totally give you an underwhelming sense of 'meh'?
<troy_s> islington: /me bored you to sleep. Apologies. LOL.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-04-24
<darkmatter> vish: rofl and lols. I need to clean shit up: http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1812/nautilusredowip9pt.png :P
<vish> darkmatter: eentersting!
<vish> <evil burns laugh>
<vish> what is "bookshelf"?
<darkmatter> vish: sorting/naming cleanup needed a bit (perhaps?) but its getting there
<darkmatter> vish: ahhh.. that's one of the library views. it's akin to an actual library, but snazzy and digital library (gallery modes etc for mo betta fun). bookshelf would have local ebooks and maybeez access to online public stuff (like ePub etc)
<vish> darkmatter: confusing though, why there is Recent /and/ History.. BookMarks+Devices and the again System..
<vish> then*
<darkmatter> vish: like I said. needs a cleanup :P
<vish> darkmatter: ebooks .. pfff! grab the book!
<darkmatter> vish: I prefer real books. but I'm thinking of fun for all. doesn't mean it would be there by default. I'm just hinting at possible crap
<vish> darkmatter: iPad spoils you all!
<vish> darkmatter: Music and video , Maybe labeled as Entertainment/Media?  or better as separate Music and Video .. folks would probably prefer them separate
<darkmatter> vish: still a wip obviously, but getting there. _but_ the important part. a sorted sidebar with collapsible categories. not OMG! AMAZING!... just NO, D'UH! :P
<darkmatter> vish: specific sublistings are irrelevant at this time. the point is you can pile your crap where you want it and avoid excessive clutter (thus the expanders)
<darkmatter> vish: and yesh. Entertainment/Media would probably be better
<vish> darkmatter: well , this has been mockuped before too ,nothing new ofcourse ;) except the "applications" but iirc , applications is a Finder thingy?
<darkmatter> vish: I stuck it in there for fun ;D
<darkmatter> vish: aside from the basics that still need polishing, I would really prefer to chance the pathbar icons, sidebar icons and such to symbolics. I find icons = technicolor vomit blobs at small sizes ;)
<vish> darkmatter: yeah , i cant really stand the tango icons on the toolbars :/
<vish> darkmatter: in the end you will end up with an elementary-nautilus mockup ;p
<darkmatter> vish. a _nice_ tango icon is the as-history one jimmac did for banshee. now that look would be great for pseudo-symbolic (not necessarily the tango style). I mean. it's clean, monochromatic like symbolics but has  a certain degree of dimension to it
<vish> darkmatter: screenshot of the banshee icon?
<darkmatter> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/wipicons/banshee/16x16/as-history.png
<vish> ah..
<darkmatter> vish: it's a nice style (I don't mean the tango part :P)
<vish> darkmatter: the panel clock icons do they change if the clock icon is in the theme or do we have to replace the usr/share.. one?
<darkmatter> vish: it's kinda like ms did in longhorn (when it had the pretty ui), but silvery instead of blue. but yeah, in general small sizes should be more glyph like
<darkmatter> vish: not sure. I haven't tested, I just replaced the system ones
<vish> righto..
<darkmatter> vish: quick pathbar mod. it actually kinda signals that you can interact with it now. http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5215/nautilusredowip9pt2.png
<ejat> hi .. where can i get new ubuntu branding font?
<vish> darkmatter: the dropdown is supposed to do what? change path to..?
<vish> ejat: not yet available..
<ejat> :(
<darkmatter> vish: it's inspired by awesomebar with locationbar2 addon.
<darkmatter> so it's basically recent/find as you type.. blah blah
<vish> darkmatter: then an odd choice to display it as a button , if  user can type there..
<darkmatter> vish: in concept it could kill the sidebar, but I'd need to figure out the desired interaction
<vish> darkmatter: then surely something we can expect for Gnome 30.0 ;p
<darkmatter> vish: yeah, I know. it's not done yet. I still need to decide on an entry look that doesn't make it look like windows 7 :P
<darkmatter> vish. I could stuff the search in and have just a single entry... hmmm...
<darkmatter> but it needs to retain framing in any case. otherwise teh home button looks silly
<darkmatter> vish: sojourn is nicer looking and easier than fixing nautilus. maybe I'll just jump back into the mockups for it. but I need to finish the theme first :(
<darkmatter> vish: but the idea _was_ to have it basically be like a custom combo entry. and have the left change to editable when you click in an empty space
<vish> ah crap! why cant i arrange banshee music by genre or albums :/
<jenniepet> Hi! Just a quick question: What is the license for the ubuntu-mono icons?
<vish> kwwii: ^^ ;)
<vish> jenniepet: basically you cant copy or reuse them without asking Mark :)
<jenniepet> :S So that is why they are separate from Humanity.
<jenniepet> vish:Thanx though! By the way, is the Lucid icon theme finalized now? Or will there be any new updates?
<vish> jenniepet: nope more updates ...
<vish> err , nope, no*
<jenniepet> vish:Thanx!
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-21
<stjohnmedrano> happy easter everyone...
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-22
<akshatj> ivanka, http://cdn.novacut.com/whatsnew-final.ogv
<ivanka> akshatj: yes, thank you! got it
<akshatj> ivanka, feedback?
<akshatj> :P
<ivanka> akshatj: sorry! Day off, family around, no focus
<akshatj> ivanka, no problem
<ivanka> akshatj: I have looked at it and I think the only thing was that the 'explore ubuntu' could do with being visible for a fraction of a second longer. However, I can launch with this and we can perfect later
<akshatj> ok
<akshatj> jderose has gone to sleep now, I will tell him tomorrow
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-23
 * vish gets ready to kick darkmatter out of here ;)
<darkmatter> vish: ? you on drugs? o.O
<darkmatter> what did I do? and how many innocent victims did I take with me? LOL
<vish> darkmatter: i see what you are installing ;p
<darkmatter> vish: it's ok. I hate yum. it's a temporary thing anyway. I want fully functional default GNOME3 without having to purge junk, or have apps that don't support the refined gobject bits no-worky after upgrading, and I also want a functional plymouth with my nvidia without 15 minutes of hacking :P
<darkmatter> vish: so don't feel bad. I'll cry everytime I open the package manager xD
<vish> lol!
<Islington> functional plymouth with my nvidia  < is that possible
<Islington> mind=blown
<darkmatter> <--like synaptic, _would_ like ubuntus software center if it wasn't the chubby cow. likes suses package manager. does _NOT_ like fedoras
<darkmatter> Islington: yes. from the nvidia guide for F15, install and run the boot configuration gui and set resolution. plymouth will work. I wonder what black magic powers that. lol
<darkmatter> it's not automatic, but at least it's not a dirty hack ;)
<Islington> I am gonna be honest, I am not enjoying unity at all.
<darkmatter> only way I've ever had a functional plymouth in ubuntu was through potentially hosing my system
<vish> Islington: welcome to the club ;)
<darkmatter> vish:  SHELL! SHELL! SHELL!
 * darkmatter swoons
<vish> meh.. i'm just gonna stick with 10.10 for a while till they all get their minds straight..
<Islington> it might be better if the ubuntu button could actually search through everything, and execute actions. ala palm os, gnome do
<vish> one thing is atleast we can test Unity in Virtualbox
<darkmatter> I had hated it back in the "clutter was buggy" and "pre relayout" stages, but the final iteration of g-s is sooo... relaxing. lol
<vish> shell sucks in that..
<zniavre_> vish,  i got amazing situation
<zniavre_> unity can't work cause gfx hardware
<zniavre_> but it work in fullscreen mode with vbox
<zniavre_> o_O
<vish> oh!
<Islington> zniavre_:  lol wut
<zniavre_> pffff im not loling in fact
<zniavre_> :o)
<Islington> :D
<darkmatter> vish: yeah. that's the only drawback of shell. if it's not on a usb or something, good luck testing! o/
<Islington> I think when natty releases I am going back to kubuntu on laptop
<Islington> anyone going to uds?
<darkmatter> but I've tested it. today is my thorough test-partition testing to figure out potential kinks with F15 (haven't used fedora in 5 years, its caveats escape me, among other things)
<darkmatter> that way I'm not left half functional and struggling. then I'll format and do a clean install.
<darkmatter> but ubuntu is out ftm *shrug*
<darkmatter> at least for a cycle, maybe two. depends how smoothly they transition to the *3 bits
<Islington> is gnome3 padding not yet adjustable? or have people suddenly fallen in love with fat themes?
<darkmatter> so instead of .deb > green .rpms >>>>>>>> .deb
<darkmatter> I'm going blue .rpms > green .rpms. lol
<darkmatter> Islington: it's a bug in the adwaita engine :(
<Islington> darkmatter: interesting, the css looks pretty straight forwards
<darkmatter> buttons don't scale, which also affects anything containing a button. like a toolbar. lol
<darkmatter> Islington: aye. and the theme is strangely half decent. lol
<darkmatter> I may look into it a bit further after getting a clean gnome3 system up and running, but I do remember it being a bug, I just can't recall the report #
<darkmatter> hopefully next release, or if I feel like diligently tracking git commits:P
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-04-24
<coz_> hey guys... is this   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/  part of the design team or this art team?
<zniavre> http://i.imgur.com/I2eFb.png   look at the strange "effect" panel i hav made with unity
<coz_> zniavre,  what am i looking for in t hat image?
<zniavre> the top right panel
<zniavre> a bit upside down
<coz_> oh lol  now i see it :)
<zniavre> :o)
<coz_> zniavre,  how did you manage that?
<vish> zniavre: nice! now all you need is to get the accelerometer working and flip the rest of the desktop too.. ;p
<zniavre>  ÊuunÉ Êou s ÊÉÉ¥Ê
<zniavre> :o)
<coz_> vish,  on systems with dual video   Intel + nvidia  and the nvidia driver installed,, I have seen just that ,, Desktop flipped upside down and sideways but fully funtional until the nvidia driver was removed :)
<zniavre> i wanted to try nouveau driver + 2.6.39kernel but it s worst than before
<vish> i actually tried rotating 90 and using a netbook like a portrait..
<vish> was not much fun after a while :D
<coz_> :)
 * thorwil wonders how and why vish uses portraits
<vish> thorwil: i thought i'd use it as a ebook.. :) but sadly the touchpad does not flip
<vish> or atleast i dint figure out an easy way ;p
<thorwil> regarding "flip", here's a nice easter video: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81458470/
<vish> hmm, could probably have tried editing the synpatics config.. will probably try the next time I'm bored ;)
<vish> synaptics*
<vish> ha! that bunny can jump!
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-04-17
<led> dmesg | grep -i blue con este comando tambien veo el bluetooth pero no encuentro comando para habilitarlo
