#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-10
<bddebian> Yeah ajmitch ya slacker ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: :(
<ajmitch> I'll get back to work sir
<tseng> dholbach: hugs
<dholbach> tseng: :))
<bddebian> ajmitch: Good boy. ;-)
* ajmitch sighs
<bddebian> w00t
* bddebian finally kicks wordtrans's ass
* ajmitch closes a few bugzilla bugs just for fun
<bddebian> ajmitch: Hey, Malone only!! ;-P
<tseng> hibernate works on both my laptops now
<tseng> its the coolest
<tseng> after sleep that is
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, I want to do more bugzilla fixing this week if possible
<ajmitch> bddebian: there are plenty of MOTUs around to do universe
<tseng> man i need to clean up in here
* bddebian looks around
<ajmitch> I won't abandon universe :)
<tseng> i will
<tseng> or, I did!
<tseng> har
<ajmitch> nah
<tseng> ~
<ajmitch> ok, closed some stale bugs in bugzilla
<koke> hi all!
<ajmitch> hey koke
<ogra> ho koke :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: looks like your plan to lure back motus is working
<bddebian> Hello koke
<koke> yep, I just read the mail
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh
<koke> but I'm almost all the day in the channel
<ajmitch> koke: I know :)
<ajmitch> good to see you
<dholbach> heya :)
<ajmitch> koke: going to be at UBZ?
<koke> ajmitch: not sure yet, but I don't think so
<Kyral> I am
<koke> maybe I'll change my opinion at last minute :)
<ajmitch> ogra: a few of these old bugs are assigned to you ;)
<ajmitch> koke: hopefully you do :)
<ogra> ajmitch, cxx stuff ?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> just cleaning up those that are fixed
<koke> ajmitch: I didn't remember
<koke> let's go for them :)
<koke> ajmitch: hey, I only have one :)
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, \sh grabbed all my cxx stuff when i started with edubuntu
<jmg> hey guys
<ajmitch> ogra: yep
<ajmitch> hello jmg
<ogra> hi jmg
<jmg> note that i am not ubuntuized yet
<jmg> but i still want to be a motu for dapper
<bddebian> Hello jmg
<ogra> jmg, thts the right place then :)
<dholbach> jmg: that's excellent news
<bddebian> dholbach: If this is all it took, why didn't you send the mail a month ago?? ;-P
<jmg> ajmitch: i reinstalled my laptop and checked out the bugfixed kvpnc... still lots of bugs from upstream but at least my bug is fixed :)
<dholbach> bddebian: good question
<jmg> ajmitch: rebuilt as lvm so i can resize for development :)
<ajmitch> jmg: great
<jmg> every day is bug day
<ajmitch> sure
<jmg> ajmitch: is sip support a goal for main or universe?
<ajmitch> we fix bugs non-stop h ere
<jmg> for breezy
<ajmitch> jmg: possibly main
<ajmitch> for dapper
<jmg> yeah
<ajmitch> can
<jmg> well sip support in breezy is non existant
<ajmitch> can't push stuff to main now
<jmg> its all in universe and none of that works
<ajmitch> file bugs, please
<ajmitch> at least against the universe packages
<bddebian> Riddell: You here?
<Riddell> bddebian: hi
<Riddell> always here for you baby
<bddebian> Riddell: Heya.  Does KDE look use /usr/share/applications and /usr/share/pixmaps too or is that a Gnome only thing?
<bddebian> Riddell: Heh
<bddebian> s/look//
<koke> brb, I need a bigger computer :)
<bddebian> Get me one too ;-)
<bddebian> oh whoops
<Riddell> bddebian: /usr/share/applications/kde for .desktop files
<Riddell> bddebian: /usr/share/icons for icons
<Riddell> and /usr/share/apps/myapp/  for other images
<bddebian> Fux, OK.  I'll have to fix wordtrans AGAIN.  Thanks
<Riddell> bddebian: what's the issue?
<bddebian> Riddell: I was adding/fixing a desktop file for wordtrans-qt and I "fixed" wordtrans-kde too. ;-)
<Riddell> bddebian: what did you change?
<bddebian> for -qt it wasn't being built.  For KDE it was going in /usr/applnk/some/crazy/dir :-)
<Riddell> applnk is old
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> Gotta run for  a bit, bbiaw
<dholbach> bddebian: 'w'?
<ajmitch> week? :)
<bddebian> While
<bddebian> Whenever
<sistpoty> cya bddebian
<hubH> stupid stamp files
<sistpoty> hrmpf... hat is a PITA... it builds > 1h and i've got it now to the point where it fails in postinst :(
<ajmitch> sistpoty: lovely
<jmg> mwuhahaha, i guessed the clarkson xen svn url.
<ajmitch> heh
<koke> hi again!
<ajmitch> ok, cut down the open cxx bug list on bugzilla
<sistpoty> wb
<crimsun> ok, well, ALSA's fixed. Whether it's applied it time for Breezy is probably a no-go, but the dpatch is there.
<crimsun> Time for more bug squashing!
<ajmitch> there's still 3824 bugs open on bugzilla! get to work, people! :)
<dholbach> wb koke
<koke> doh! what a shame, I didn't ever have pbuilder installed in my workstation :/
<jmg> hmm
<jmg> i wonder if i can do a dirty hack on klaptop to actually use /etc/acpi/
<sladen> jmg: they need to be fixed to use ACPI and pmi
<ajmitch> jmg: who else from up there are you going to drag in as a MOTU?
<jmg> ajmitch: Hmm, my coworkers are either too busy to do any motuing, or too silly.
<jmg> ajmitch: ill do my best to translate their whines into usable bugs
* jmg goes to look for other bugs to squash
<jmg> oh
<jmg> not much point really
<jmg> im behind the times
* jmg goest to work on Kommander interface to setfacl instead
* ajmitch wanders off for some lunch
* dholbach wanders off to bed
<dholbach> have a nice evening guys, i'm off to bed
<bddebian> ajmitch: NO BUGZILLA! ;-P
<bddebian> Gnight dholbach
<dholbach> :)
<crimsun> 'night
<marcin_ant> hmm
<marcin_ant> *stupid* question - what is MOTU?
<bddebian> MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE
<bddebian> <--- He-Man
<bddebian> ajmitch is She-Ra ;-P
* bddebian hides
<marcin_ant> I see
<Kyral> Fear us.....wait....only be aware of me. I'm just in Training ;P
<bddebian> Kyral: Aren't we all ? :-)
<Kyral> Compared to real MOTUs that is :P
<marcin_ant> hmm is this possible to have more than one MOTU?
<bddebian> MASTERS sorry ;-)
<crimsun> yes
<marcin_ant> heh I see ;)
<crimsun> it was bddebian misleading you :p
<j^> wrt http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=708
<j^> it fails to start here while trying loader.write(base64.b64decode(content))
<j^> in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/deskbar/handlers/mozilla.py
<j^>  line 134
* sistpoty does mv sistpoty /dev/bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<bddebian> Gnight sistpoty
<Nafallo> http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/calvin.html
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> I see bddebian has been trash-talking me again :P
* bddebian hugs ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hmmph
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> I hope sistpoty didn't saw that /dev/bed is a symlink to /dev/null ;-)
<bddebian> hehe
<Nafallo> but well. he disappered... :-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: you'll put me off bugfixing next :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: ??
<ajmitch> 12:10 < bddebian> ajmitch is She-Ra ;-P
<ajmitch> 12:10  * bddebian hides
<Nafallo> lol
<bddebian> ajmitch: I got that, but what do you mean by put you off bugfixing?
<ajmitch> I might decide to quit again :P
<ajmitch> with the abuse I get around here & all
<tseng> again?
<sivang> night all
<ajmitch> yeah
* lifeless offers ajmitch an abuse-mirror
<ajmitch> heh
<jmg> ajmitch: what is the invocation to dpatch you told me?
* jmg just spotted the bug in klaptop
<ajmitch> which invocation did you need?
<jmg> ajmitch: there was one that gave a shell and then i could make my change?
<ajmitch> dpatch-edit-patch?
<jmg> is that it?
<ajmitch> should be
<ajmitch> you need to setup debian/rules for dpatch first
<bddebian> ajmitch: You can't quite, slaves have to be sold. ;-P
<jmg> it's already dpatch aware
<ajmitch> jmg: then dpatch-edit-patch should work
<ajmitch> bddebian: too late for that
<bddebian> Err s/quite/quit
<jmg> Not quite. seems a little broken
<ajmitch> what happens?
<bmonty> hey everyone
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> working on bug fixing?
<ajmitch> of course he is
<bddebian> I guess
<ajmitch> he is the Bug Master
<bmonty> ok then, #1332...I propose reject
<bddebian> Yep
<bmonty> hey, the bug count is holding below 500...nice job bddebian
<ajmitch> yes, good job Bug Master
<bddebian> pfft
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> I need another machine or two .. :-)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> like the 20 you have aren't enough
<bmonty> if a bug is assigned to Martin Pitt, can I close it if the problem is fixed?
<tseng> yes
<bmonty> #1765
<bddebian> They're all Hurd.  I'm starting to consider switching one to Ubuntu
<bddebian> bmonty: Yes
<bmonty> do you worry about backporting security fixes to hoary?
<Amaranth> in main, yes
<bigcx2> hey all
<Amaranth> in universe only if someone is willing to do it
<bmonty> thanks Amaranth
<bmonty> brb
<bigcx2> i just put up a guide for oracle 10g on ubuntu on the wiki
<ajmitch> hello bigcx2
<bigcx2> if you all could check it out and give me some feedback
<bigcx2> it'd be appreciated
<bigcx2> wiki.ubuntu.com/Oracle10g
* ajmitch wonders if anyone here actually knows oracle
* bddebian hides
<bigcx2> lol
<ajmitch> looks moderately evil
<bigcx2> no it's totally evil
<bigcx2> :)
<bigcx2> closed source sucks
<bigcx2> that's why it had to be done
<ajmitch> yep :)
<ajmitch> I don't think I've closed any malone bugs yet today
<bigcx2> i got one for ya that'd be easy to fix
* hubH hesitate packaging new things
<ajmitch> bigcx2: sure
* ajmitch can't handle anything too complex :)
<bigcx2> i put it in a couple a days ago but i don't know if it's been accepted yet
<bigcx2> it has to do with the zope-common docs
<ajmitch> ah, main bug
<ajmitch> what's the bug number, and is it in bugzilla?
<bigcx2> it's in universe
<bddebian> ajmitch: You are such a liar :-)
<ajmitch> you filed the bug in malone?
<ajmitch> bddebian: why?
<bigcx2> yea
<bddebian> * ajmitch can't handle anything too complex :)
<ajmitch> bigcx2: the package is in main for breezy, did you file the bug against hoary?
<bigcx2> i don't think i picked a specific release
<ajmitch> bigcx2: ok, checked the doc, the typo is fixed
<bigcx2> for breezy
<ajmitch> yes
<bigcx2> alright it was 2842 by the way
<ajmitch> it's hardly a critical bug that requires us to put it in hoary-updates
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> otherwise I wouldn't have known what the bug was
<bigcx2> hey i thought you said you wanted something easy!
<bigcx2> :)
<ajmitch> it's easy, I can mark it as fixed because we have a fixed package :P
<bigcx2> cool
<bigcx2> does the package in breezy have the linked mode that it talks about in the docs?
<ajmitch> no
<bddebian> Can anyone reproduce 2852?  I cannot
<ajmitch> the README talks about them as addon techniques
<ajmitch> rather than modes
<bigcx2> ahh maybe i misread it then
<bigcx2> sounds cool regardless
<ajmitch> thank doko
* bigcx2 thanks doko
<bddebian> bmonty or ajmitch: Can either of you reproduce 2852?
<JptrDuo> Hey guys, there's a package that's in the universe (kvirc) that's 2.x in the repository and is currently at v. 3.2.0 (debian package available)
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: it works fine for me
<JptrDuo> not sure if it should go on Universe Candidates since it needs to be updated, but isnt new
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, and I already asked you & bmonty to try & reproduce that for me :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: Did you?
* bddebian is on crack again
<bddebian> I wonder what arch he's running
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch, why didn't you close it?
<ajmitch> because that bug was closed
<ajmitch> and it was 1657
<ajmitch> this is a new one
<bddebian> Oohh :-)
<bmonty_laptop> ahh....a user who can't catch a clue
<ajmitch> 1657 the reporter confirmed it as working
<ajmitch> 2852 is by someone else
<bddebian> Hmm, I think I've killed my poor lappy trying to compile opensp and download/install ddd at the same time.. :'-(
<bddebian> Uhm, 2833?
<hubH> bddebian: is it that weak?
<hubH> bddebian: I do more on my slow and aged laptop
<bddebian> Actually I think my HD is failing and Ihave been putting it off :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch or bmonty:  2843?  When I install ddd I get libxp6  ??
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> it still needs fixed
<bddebian> Does it?
<ajmitch> libxp6 | xlibs (>> 4.1.0),
<bddebian> Then how did it come in for me?
<ajmitch> a rebuild would drop the unnecessary libxp6 dep
<ajmitch> because you've got a screwy box? ;)
<bddebian> I did it in a pbuilder login
* ajmitch waits for bddebian to fix ddd
<bddebian> All it needs is a rebuild?  I don't have to add the libxp6 dep?
<bddebian> ajmitch: ^^ ?
<ajmitch> unless you really really want to?
<jsgotangco> hey zakame
<bddebian> ajmitch: Damn you.  What is "correct" ? :-)
<zakame> hi jsgotangco =)
<hub__> back
<bmonty_laptop> anyone running kubuntu?
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: No, not yet. :-(  I think if I bring up another box I might.
<bmonty_laptop> hmm...look at 451.  The submitter says he rebuilt the package and it now it works.  Is it worth you guys rebuilding the package?
<bddebian> He says he built it in a hoary pbuilder???
<bmonty_laptop> yeah, looks like a hoary pbuilder
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Mark it fixed in breezy ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> I would except the submitter says the bug occurs with the package in breezy
<bddebian> Did you try it? :-)
<bmonty_laptop> I don't run KDE so I can't reproduce the bug
<bddebian> Oh, well kick Riddell  ;-P
<Rotund> Hi.  I'd like to be a MOTU.  I have a package that's not in debian that I'd like to make a debian package for.
<Rotund> Could someone walk me through the process?
<Rotund> or point me to a good page w/ the info
<zakame> Rotund: the maint-guide package $(apt-get -y install maint-guide) provides a good intro :)
<bmonty_laptop> Rotund: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUWannabeTips and other pages in the MOTU category
<Rotund> thanks.  Just checking that there isn't a deskbar applet package under some other name
<ajmitch> there is
<Rotund> what is it?
<ajmitch> it's just been packaged
<Rotund> oh, so I just need to wait for it.
<ajmitch> dholbach probably uploaded it a few hours ago
<zakame> Rotund: another pointer is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
<Rotund> now I'm the MOTV (Master of the void)
<Amaranth> iirc it was uploaded about 6 hours ago
<bddebian> resapplet?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> resapplet is completely different
<Rotund> no.  This is like the google address bar/quicksilver (sorta)
<Rotund> hmmm.  I just refreshed and still nothing under "deskbar"
<ajmitch> Rotund: because new packages need to be manually approved after upload
<Rotund> gotcha
<hub> dholbach did
<bmonty_laptop> are syncs from debian unstable still OK?
<ajmitch> yes, as said before
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: maybe
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: give us a good reason for it
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: kcheckgmail....seems that only the latest version will work with gmail
<bmonty_laptop> #459 and #2018
<Rotund> now for my "fun"... I want to try to get a newer version of libtheora for me.
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: you've tested it?
<ajmitch> Rotund: not in breezy, sorry
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: no, I don't use KDE
<ajmitch> Rotund: you could build it yourself if you wanted
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: never ask for a sync that you haven't tested yourself
<Rotund> ajmitch: I know.  As I said, it's for me and I'll probably post a link somewhere as the one in breezy is total crap
<hub> what should be done with a bugzilla bug marked as RESOLVED UNIVERSE?
<ajmitch> hub: fix it
<Rotund> what are the chances I could get a new package into Sarge for next time?
<bddebian> Sarge???
<ajmitch> Rotund: into sarge? absolutely none :)
<windex> o_O
<hub> ajmitch: but I mean, how to we mark then as fixed since they are already resolved?
<hub> ajmitch: reopen and then really mark FIXED?
<ajmitch> hub: we don't, since we use malone
<hub> ah ok
<hub> so?
<Rotund> They are using a very old version there and the ubuntu one is a recompile of the sarge one.
<Rotund> I don't know if the guy died or what. ;)
<hub> ah I go to the malone bug
<ajmitch> Rotund: sarge is released, you cannot get new versions in
<Rotund> Sid... unstable
<Rotund> I get those confused =)
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: I haven't asked for the sync yet....just checking to make sure I understand the process
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: this close to the release, you need to provide real justification & test it
<ajmitch> although you should always test it
<bmonty_laptop> I guess we need to get a kubuntu user to test it, or drop the package since the version in breezy is no good
<windex> completley unrelated to this channel but a valid question since i want to play with some packages that may exist in breezy: is breezy stable enough to use day to day yet?
<bddebian> windex: I've been using it daily for 3 months
<ajmitch> windex: considering that it's due for release in a bit over a week, it ought to be
<windex> oh. ok then. :D
<windex> last time i asked, was 2 months ago, and X was broken. :)
<bmonty_laptop> windex: the colony 5 release is excellent
<windex> i guess that means i can check to see if my tablet pc will run ubuntu without modifications then. :)
<bddebian> How the fsck can we have libglade2 v 2.5.1-2ubuntu1 but glade 0.6.4-13.1??
<ajmitch> simple
<bddebian> Ahh glade-2 ?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> although the versions are still different
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: that confused me too the last time I played with glade :)
<bddebian> :-)
<crimsun> it can be confusing. Glade and Libglade are actually different sources.
<bmonty_laptop> sound ok to close #459, I suspect at some point in the past that bug would have been fixed, 2018 would be the most valid now
<bmonty_laptop> damn, 8-12" of snow in north dakota tonight
<bmonty_laptop> guess I better get my snow blower fixed soon
<crimsun> bmonty_laptop: looks fine to me to close 459.
<crimsun> I'd add a referral to 2018.
* bddebian seconds it
<bddebian> Am I on crack (as usual) or what is up with the diff on #2782 ??
<bddebian> Did he just diff the script after it was built??
<bmonty_laptop> heh, I've closed 5 bugs tonight and I haven't had to apt-get anything :)
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: FU ;-P
* bddebian has built 7 packages in the last 2 hours :'-(
<bddebian> And I haven't even gotten to gnucash yet.. :'-( :'-(
<bmonty_laptop> what is wrong with gnucash?
<bmonty_laptop> I need to figure out how to build a kubuntu uml image
<bddebian> Old version.  Missing desktop file.  Can't use ofx.  Take your pick ;-)
<bmonty_laptop> desktop file is there, I checked that this afternoon
<bddebian> In the current version?
<bmonty_laptop> yes
<bddebian> Well it ftbfs's anyway :-)
<bmonty_laptop> I would add GNOME to the categories, but the desktop file looks correct otherwise
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't anger the debian maintainer of gnucash
<bmonty_laptop> well FTBFS is definately a problem
<bddebian> ajmitch: Who, Thomas?
<ajmitch> yeah
<bddebian> pfft :-)
<ajmitch> you may recognise the name :)
<bddebian> I had dinner with him right before I left California
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch doesn't get to meet anyone, stuck down here in NZ
<bddebian> That's why you are coming to PA via UBZ right?? ;-P
<bmonty_laptop> ajmitch: don't listen to him, PA sucks
<ajmitch> bddebian: depends on how much you'd pay me to visit
<bddebian> ajmitch: How much would it take?  I have to buy friends. ;-)
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Oh, as opposed to 12 inches of snow in October?? ;-P
<bmonty_laptop> north dakota sucks too....that is why I don't live there
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Where are you?
<bmonty_laptop> nebraska
<bddebian> Ahh, a Cornhusker
<ajmitch> bddebian: 2 laptops, at least one being amd64 ;)
<bddebian> eeks
<bmonty_laptop> not really, I'm a temporary resident
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Oh
<bmonty_laptop> I from New England originally...Maine and Massachusetts mostly
<bddebian> ajmitch: Thoughts on my comment about 2782?
<ajmitch> bddebian: what comment?
<bddebian> bddebian Am I on crack (as usual) or what is up with the diff on #2782 ??
<bddebian> bddebian Did he just diff the script after it was built??
<bmonty_laptop> bddebian: I don't see a comment either
<bmonty_laptop> looks like just a diff of the script
<bmonty_laptop> either that or he only changed the script and didn't do anything else to the package
<bddebian> Fux.  He posted like 4 of those
<ajmitch> is there something wrong with just diffing the init script?
<bddebian> It's not in the package like that
<ajmitch> and?
<bddebian> How would I apply it?
<bddebian> And I'm not sure his diff is even valid
<ajmitch> you expect the submitters to do all the work?
<bddebian>  /lib/lsb/init-functions  ??  Is that even valid?
<ajmitch> ls -la /lib/lsb/init-functions
<ajmitch> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 7310 2005-09-25 05:38 /lib/lsb/init-functions
<ajmitch> dude, why do you think the submitter went to the effort of making a patch?
<bddebian> Yeah I can see that thanks
<ajmitch> so why ask?
<bddebian> A patch to what?
<ajmitch> to the initscript :P
<crimsun> it patches /etc/init.d/privoxy, I presume
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> debian/init.d, actually
<crimsun> err, yes
<ajmitch> which then gets installed there :)
<crimsun> sorry, what becomes /etc/init.d/privoxy
<bddebian> But after the fact right?  He just diffed the script built by the package??
<ajmitch> why do you think that?
<bddebian> Because afaict it nowhere near resembles anything in the source
<ajmitch> the patch applies cleanly
<ajmitch> the package doesn't use the initscripts in the soruce
<ajmitch> s/soruce/source/
* bddebian is confused
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> I said which file the patch applied against earlier
<ajmitch> this is just yet another aspect of debian packaging you need to learn :)
<bddebian> So learn me Oh Master
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> 16:41 < crimsun> it patches /etc/init.d/privoxy, I presume
<ajmitch> 16:41 < ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> 16:41 < ajmitch> debian/init.d, actually
<ajmitch> due to the call to dh_installinit in debian/rules
<bddebian> Can I call that specifically?  Don't I have to do: debian/rules binary-arch: ?
<ajmitch> eg
<ajmitch>  dh_installinit -v
<ajmitch>         install -d debian/privoxy/etc/init.d
<ajmitch>         install -p -m755 debian/init.d debian/privoxy/etc/init.d/privoxy
<ajmitch> eh?
<ajmitch> why would you want to?
<bddebian> NM, OK, now what?
<bddebian> Heya tritium and LaserJock
<tritium> hi bddebian
<bddebian> LaserJock: Did you see your ghemical and mopac stuff?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!!
<bddebian> LaserJock: I'm glad SOMEONE does ;-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: What does that do for me, that's after the fact??
<ajmitch> bddebian: umm
<ajmitch> we're modifying a source package here
<ajmitch> you can patch the source any way you need to
<bddebian> Aye
<ajmitch> including simply applying that patch
<ajmitch> and sticking in a changelog entry
<ajmitch> both of which I've done
<bddebian> Applying it to WHAT??
<ajmitch> ffs
<ajmitch> I've told you twice
<ajmitch> 16:46 < ajmitch> 16:41 < crimsun> it patches /etc/init.d/privoxy, I presume
<ajmitch> 16:46 < ajmitch> 16:41 < ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> 16:46 < ajmitch> 16:41 < ajmitch> debian/init.d, actually
<bddebian> AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<ajmitch> I told you I was getting irritable earlier
<ajmitch> :)
<bddebian> Who the frick is Stephen Shirley?
<ajmitch> a MOTU
<ajmitch> and you could have asked with s/the frick //
<bddebian> nick?
<ajmitch> diamond
<LaserJock> bddebian: ok, not to seem ungrateful ;-) but if I provided a debdiff to libghemical to get mopac support would that be able to get in?
<ajmitch> bddebian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenShirley
<crimsun> holy, I never realised we had grown
<bddebian> ajmitch: Never heard of them.  Hm.
<bddebian> LaserJock: Aye
<ajmitch> them?
<ajmitch> crimsun: we've grown a little
<bddebian> HIm
<bmonty_laptop> well both my battery and the laptop's battery are almost dead....night guys
<bddebian> Later bmonty_laptop
<bddebian> Thanks for your work as always! :-)
<bmonty_laptop> np, I'm having fun :)
<crimsun> I'm off to bed as well, finished ALSA, so tomorrow's (today's) vlc.
<tritium> Good night, crimsun
<crimsun> 'night
<bddebian> Gnitght crimsun
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> fixing dosemu ;)
<\sh> I have 47 minutes time ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> dosemu wouldn't be a nice one to fix properly, I think :)
<\sh> segfaults in actual version in breezy...
<ajmitch> yes
<\sh> new upstream shouldn't but has compile errors...
<ajmitch> which is why it's not nice :)
<bddebian> \sh: You already fixed xgsmlib?? ;-P
<bddebian> Hi btw :-)
<\sh> bddebian: no...I'll try to compile it later on with g++-3.4 and applied patch
<bddebian> :-)
<\sh> I read dholbachs mail this morning...and I was feeling sad :(
<ajmitch> \sh: why?
<\sh> sad, that bddebian has to fix the universe by himself ;)
<ajmitch> yes, so sad that bddebian is fixing all the bugs
* ajmitch looks around for a towel to throw in
<\sh> so we can't leave him alone...he has 3 kids...they're growing up with no dad and only bugs around
<ajmitch> because of course none of the rest of us have done any bugfixing
<bddebian> Ack.. Hey I have never said any of this
<\sh> gnarf
<\sh> bddebian: but dholbach is right
<\sh> dpmi.c: In function 'dpmi_fault':
<\sh> dpmi.c:3542: error: invalid lvalue in assignment
<\sh> dpmi.c:3549: error: invalid lvalue in assignment
<\sh> BAH
<ajmitch> yes, dholbach is right, noone else has done anything of note
<\sh> LWORD32(eip, += 2);
<\sh> #define LWORD32(x,y) {if (DPMI_CLIENT.is_32) (unsigned long) _##x y; else _LWORD(x) y;}
<\sh> stoopid...
<\sh> now I need my "macro extraction reading glasses"
<bddebian> ajmitch / \sh: Come on, you two know that is bunk
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> if i read it correct, the line should be this
<\sh> (unsinged long) _##eip+=2 (if is_32) or _LWORD(eip) +=2;
<\sh> bddebian: well...I'm feeling misrable...I have a shitload of work in the office, because of our IS/ISP move but I want to finish all the outstanding stuff before we release breezy
<bddebian> \sh: You do a TON of work for Ubuntu.  Don't feel bad.
<ajmitch> a ton more than I do
<\sh> bddebian: I do nothing right now for ubuntu...
<\sh> I'm playing in the moment the "hey, we have a problem with ubuntu / kubuntu community work" hearings...
<bddebian> They should pay you guys just to listen to my dumb ass ;-)
<tritium> why, what sounds is it making?
<\sh> *poop* ,-)
<\sh> bddebian: btw..if you join UBZ take your kids with you...I'll have to buy them a beer ;)
<\sh> bddebian: u have to give them also an example, not to become nerds like us ;)
<ajmitch> who spend all their waking moments cursing packages
<bddebian> \sh: No kidding :-)
<\sh> bddebian: serious...I told my son the last time: look, son, you can do whatever you want with the computer, but don't become a nerd like your dad...
<\sh> well...I'm happy to report, that he will become a karate and chess nerd
<ajmitch> hah
<\sh> and a good piano and guitar player
<\sh> and I have to buy a present for friday for his birthday
<bddebian> :-)
<\sh> damn
<\sh> this bloody stoopid dosemu
<\sh> YES!
<\sh> fedora has the same problems with dosemu
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> you mean gcc 4.0 has the same problems
<ajmitch> it's orphaned in debian
<\sh> which means no uploads anymore?
<ajmitch> which mean noone loves it
<bddebian> :-)
<\sh> oh well
<\sh> how should I play now "leasure suite larry 1"?
<ajmitch> apt-get install dosbox
* ajmitch uses it to play colonization
<\sh> bah
<\sh> apt-get install vice ;)
<bddebian> Hehe
<\sh> and I play mule
<ajmitch> Description: The Versatile Commodore Emulator
<ajmitch> ?
<\sh> yes
<ajmitch> old school ;)
<\sh> lda $0a
<\sh> sta $D020
<\sh> lda $00
<\sh> sta $D021
<\sh> that's the only thing I remember ;)
<\sh> or in basic: poke 53280,10
<\sh> poke 53281,0
<\sh> means foreground and background color settings ;)
<bddebian> Ooohh peek and poke
<\sh> wow
<\sh> just now I found an old shareware of mine
<\sh> UCONV161.ARJ 112.599 11.10.1994 UTICCONV V1.60 FileEcho Konverter von Utic in ProBoard, RemoteAccess, SBBS, Maximus (C) 1994 by Stephan Hermann
<ajmitch> scary
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> that was my merging time to linux
<\sh> when I was running a 2 line bbs
<\sh> written in borland pascal
<LaserJock> bddebian: can you check out http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/ubuntu/libghemical.debdiff for me?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I sent myself an e-mail to try it in the morning.  I have GOT to get to bed :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: good night
<LaserJock> ok, that's fine, gnight
<tritium> good night, bddebian
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<bddebian> Thanks again ajmitch and sorry for my density. :-(
<\sh> last cigarette before I have to rush to office
<\sh> k...rushing to office...laters
<Burgundavia> ogra, did somebody from debian gis contact you about getting new gis stuff into Ubuntu?
<jmg> re all
<jmg> i think ive done enough for one day and should go read rogue trooper :)
<\sh> re
<ajmitch> wb \sh
<\sh> so...all tickets resolved
<\sh> (for real life work that is ;))
<ajmitch> oh man
<ajmitch> I was hoping you were saying that all the universe bugs were fixed :)
<\sh> haha
<\sh> First I need the money from my real life job to do my ubuntu jobs ;)
<hub> yeah
<hub> unfortunately
<hub> I'm rebuilding a few of my packages on REVU for PowerPC :-)
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah I know that feeling
* ajmitch should look around for some company willing to sponsor an errant ubuntu developer ;)
<hub> me too
<\sh> ajmitch, ask mark ;)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> me too
<ajmitch> sure, I'll just stop him at UBZ & ask for a job ;)
<\sh> why not :)
<hub> ajmitch: you'll be at ubz?
<\sh> you're young :) you can do that :)
<ajmitch> hub: yes
<hub> wow
<hub> I'll be there too
<tseng> ajmitch: oh good
<hub> as I'm local
<ajmitch> tseng: I gave in
<tseng> ajmitch: you can represent Mono Teams twisted agendas
<ajmitch> of course I will
<tseng> we should have a spec ahead of time, then
<tseng> or i could let you write the spec, and then flame you about how worthless the spec is and what a fool you are
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> you'd enjoy that more
<tseng> we know that that works well also
<ajmitch> and then I'd have the fun of flaming you in return
<tseng> exactly, we all win
* hub needs a new laptop
<hub> this laptop is so slow
<womble> \sh: I'm having trouble understanding the reasoning behind your patches to php4-sqlite (1.0.2-7ubuntu1).  Can you explain them a bit to me?
<ajmitch> hub: what spec is it?
<hub> ajmitch: which spec?
<ajmitch> the laptop
<hub> ajmitch: PowerBook G3/400
<ajmitch> ah
<hub> 5 years old
<ajmitch> that is a little slow :)
<hub> well that all I have
<hub> my desktop is a 1GHz PIII
<\sh> womble, well...if you give me some time...I'll review them...and explain...just being busy with xgsmlib
<womble> \sh: kthx
<\sh> womble, you mean
<\sh>  * debian/control: added new substvar php:Depends
<\sh>   * debian/rules: removed dh_makeshlibs
<\sh>   * debian/rules: added phpapiver var
<womble> \sh: That be the one.  I don't understand why you didn't just take 1.0.2-8 from Debian instead.
<womble> \sh: And also why you used php:Depends instead of sticking with misc:Depends.
<\sh> womble, cause all our php4 extensions are working with this special substvar...misc:Depends gives the wrong dep
<\sh> (because of dh_makeshlibs :()
<womble> Why not fix dh_pecl to provide php:Depends then, instead of hacking it into the rules file?
<\sh> all the php4 ext packages are depending on php api 2005something and not on the old php-2004something
<womble> \sh: That's not due to the name of the substvar, though
<womble> That's because the method of defining the API version changed
<\sh> womble, cause I was doing all the packages...and I followed the same system...as well regarding infinities advise
<\sh> for dapper we will sync them anyways...
<womble> \sh: You could have converted them all to use dh_pecl, instead... <grin>
<\sh> womble, well...yes, but this way was easier and faster...;)
<womble> \sh: But it's a dirty hack.
* \sh 's dirty ;-)
<womble> \sh: I think you're in the wrong channel for those sorts of confessions...
<\sh> when I'm regarding my hacks to python-qt3 so it's working correctly
<womble> \sh: As long as I know that the changes you made were a quick hack, so I can ignore them and wait for the resync.  -9 removes the shlibs call, and dh_pecl is now fixed to use php-config --phpapiver (as of -8).
<\sh> womble, point is, before I trying out new things, I was trying to fix our unmet deps...which is done...so our time is running out...and if a package will be fixed with a small "dirty" hack, it's better then to play with something else
<\sh> womble, as for ubuntu itself, php4 was demoted to universe, and php5 is our main focus ... so we have to make sure for dapper, that all the extensions are working with php5
<\sh> womble, one question are u working as well on the webapps ml of debian?
<Treenaks> \sh: no, for dapper we have to make sure nobody uses php anymore ;)
<womble> \sh: I disagree with the assertion that quick hacks are OK due to time constraints.  They're basically just borrowing time from the future, because at some stage those quick hacks have to be dealt with.
<\sh> Trashcan, this would be my nightmare
<womble> \sh: But moving to php5 in general isn't a bad thing.  Not that anyone *needs* a php5-sqlite...
<womble> \sh: I don't think I'm subscribed to that list, no.  I was going to.  Wonder why I didn't...
<\sh> womble, actually sqlite is a beast..every single time it's updated, something breaks e.g. amarok ;)
<womble> Treenaks: heh
<womble> \sh: Unannounced ABI changes?
<\sh> womble, I don't know...we updated amarok-1.2.4 to 1.3.1 with a new sqlite, and for many of the users amarok crashed the first time, until they moved their old collection sqlite stuff out of the way
<womble> \sh: Sqlite2 to Sqlite3 transition?
<\sh> womble, looks like...strange is, that for me it never crashed :(
<womble> \sh: Although the database format changes every now and then, it normally tells you about it, rather than crashing.  Perhaps amarok didn't handle the error message gracefully?
<\sh> womble, well...this is something I can't tell you, 'cause not all users had the problems...only some...and I don't know why...I've never seen a backtrace, or strace or crash log...whatever..the workaround is known and I think I'll have to create a macro
<womble> \sh: That's a bit fruity, indeed.
<\sh> anyways..they should use php4-xbase or something like this, because this format never change anymore ;)
<womble> \sh: Yeah, that's the answer to your problems... <grin>
* \sh speaks xbase natively...flagship (aka clipper for unix/linux) was my first choice, when I wrote my first webshop application
<\sh> I mean...xbase would be a "dirty" hack ;)
<womble> \sh: Hopefully that story ends with "and then I sobered up" or something...
<\sh> hmmm..
<siretart> morning
<siretart> quote of the day: "This option is ignored for compatibility with the AIX version of nm.  It takes one parameter which must be the string 32_64." (taken from the nm manpage)
<Treenaks> siretart: omg
<hub> yeah
<hub> old legacy
<\sh> siretart, nice one...well...better then my fun this morning with our as400 guys
<\sh> just entered the NOC...and see a big red blinking warning beeping alarm of our cablemaster....which is a as400 application with nasty hacks inside
<hub> #mono sounds useless
<\sh> our complete ppv ordering was fcked up
<Treenaks> \sh: "cable master" ?
<\sh> Treenaks, yeah...it's a CRM tool and swiss knife for german cable providers...the company who wrote this piece of shit earns a lot of money
<dholbach> good morning
<jsgotangco> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey jerome
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> morning andrew :)
<Tonio-> morning
<dholbach> morning Tonio-
<\sh> grmpf
<ajmitch> \sh: issues again?
* Tonio- has a Xen server to prepare...... probably a hard day ^_^
<sivang> morning
<dholbach> cashel: what's wrong with gnome-devel?
<Cashel> Doesnt seem to be a package for 2.12
<Cashel> just 2.10
<dholbach> yeah, we got it in from debian
<Cashel> renamed or something?
<dholbach> it's just a meta package, which pulls everything in to give you the GNOME DEVEL experience
<dholbach> it doesn't give any functionality
<Cashel> uhh
<Cashel> so use 2.10 then?
<dholbach> and the debian guys didn't change anything on it
<dholbach> yeah, that's perfectly fine
<Cashel> ahh good
<dholbach> it should come to the same in the end
<Cashel> cpan is being a pain for me tonight :P
<Cashel> thanks for the heads up
<dholbach> why that? why don't you download the perl modules through synaptic?
<Cashel> I did, still no Gtk.pk so had to go cpan...
<Cashel> errr pm
<Cashel> i.e.  perl -MCPAN -e 'install Gtk'
<dholbach> ?
<Cashel> I'm assuming its gnome-devel that provides gnome-config?
<dholbach> no
<Cashel> Oh crap guess not.. sigh
<dholbach> Cashel: gnome-devel is a meta package
<dholbach> it contains nothing
<dholbach> just dependencies
<Cashel> ahh
<dholbach> http://packages.ubuntu.com KNOWS
<Cashel> any idea what provides gnome-config?
<Cashel> ahhh ok
<Cashel> shoulda figured the debian style url, lol
<dholbach> Cashel: you want libgtk-perl
<dholbach> and libgnome-dev
<Cashel> I have both for gtk2 .. couldnt find 1.2 packages...
<dholbach> at-cache show libgtk-perl
<dholbach> Depends: perlapi-5.8.7, perl (>= 5.8.7-3), libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libglib1.2 (>= 1.2.0), libgtk1.2 (>= 1.2.10-4), libx11-6, libxext6, libxi6
<Cashel> also it seems packages.ubuntu.com doesnt know too much... doesnt seem to list whats provided...
<dholbach> libgtk1.2
<dholbach> there you go
<dholbach> ???
<dholbach> i have my information from there
<Cashel> at-cache? cool I'll check it out...
<dholbach> apt-cache
<dholbach> sorry
<Cashel> ahh
<Cashel> already newest version...
<Cashel> still says cant locate Gtk.pm .. sigh..
<Cashel> wish I could rem what I did in hoary.. dont remember having a problem tho....
<dholbach> look if you have usr/lib/perl5/Gtk.pm
<Cashel> nope just Gtk2.pm
<Cashel> think I could get away with a ln -s ?
* Cashel hates doing that tho
<dholbach> then install libgtk-perl please
<Cashel> I'll be darned
<Cashel> its comming down...
<dholbach> man did you read, what i said?
<dholbach> <dholbach> Cashel: you want libgtk-perl
<dholbach> some minutes ago already
<dholbach> :)
<Cashel> yeah I went through synaptic and didnt find it... I dont know whats up w/ me tonight sorry
<Cashel> s'what I get for using a gui I suppose...
<dholbach> don't worry
<dholbach> hope your stuff works after that
<Cashel> yeah seems to be clean now thanks a ton
<dholbach> :)
<Cashel> I have to say you ubuntu devel folks are doing a kick arse job
<Cashel> all the dependability of debian but more up to date, gotta love it
<Cashel> .. not that you cant update debian, but when the works already done for you... :)
<dholbach> hey lucas
<lucas> hi
<ajmitch> hi
<jsgotangco> elo
<zyga> hi
<dholbach> we collected information on our team on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU :)
* lucas is reading
<ajmitch> yay, another soon-to-be-DD
<dholbach> but you're also free to ask as much as you like :)
<ajmitch> as a DD, people look up to you & gaze on you in awe.. or at least that's what they told us :P
<dholbach> ajmitch: as a MOTU, you have a WAY cooler title :-p
<ajmitch> oh sure
<ajmitch> I'm sure I'll put "Master of the Universe" on my business cards
<jsgotangco> take it from he man himself
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> "Master of the Universe" looks good in a CV, doesn't it?
<ajmitch> sure
<dholbach> dunno how pleased the boss of the company will be for working with a master of the universe at his side, but it definitely LOOKs cool
<jsgotangco> I bet you've put that in your CV
<ajmitch> dholbach: well it's worth more to whoever hires me that I can upload to main
<ajmitch> with the ubuntu partner program & all :)
<dholbach> hehe
<jsgotangco> how does that work?
<ajmitch> 10 points for a fulltime employee who's a main uploader
<ajmitch> http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/program
<jsgotangco> shucks
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> I wonder if I'm even close to top 100 launchpad users
* Cashel considers putting "Guy who pesters ubuntu partners" on his CV, but decides it just doesnt have the same ring to it
* ajmitch should go for Ubuntu Certified Professional ;)
<ajmitch> since we all know I'm certifiable
<dholbach> oh ROCK
* jsgotangco is not into the certification thing
<ajmitch> no, but it'd look cool :)
<jsgotangco> your activities speak for itself
<ajmitch> my irc lurking?
<ajmitch> yeah, says a lot about me
<Lathiat> certifiably crazy maybe :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: of course
<lucas> oh, there's no MOTURuby ?
<zyga> ruby?
<zyga> did I hear ruby?
<ajmitch> lucas: no, feel free to start one
<dholbach> yeah that'd be awesome
<ajmitch> lucas: as a soon-to-be-DD, your input would be valuable :)
<ajmitch> lucas: although with debian, 'soon' could be > 1 year
<lucas> ajmitch: "soon"
<lucas> yes ;)
<dholbach> some users complain about alexandria and i never have a clue what to tell them
<ajmitch> lucas: it doesn't take nearly as long with ubuntu :)
<Lathiat> if someone wants to start a moturuby i'm in
<zyga> who does ruby around here? :)
<Lathiat> me :)
<jsgotangco> rarely
<lucas> Lathiat, zyga : I'm interested, but will be quite busy until the end of october
<zyga> Lathiat, lucas: does either of you know ruby source code?
<lucas> zyga: how big is your diff ?
<zyga> lucas: moment
<dholbach> lucas, Lathiat, zyga: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
<dholbach> lucas: i'm quite sure you guys will ROCK
<Lathiat> zyga: no
<zyga> lucas: 4.1 megs
<zyga> lucas: I'm not good at debdiffs though ;] 
<Lathiat> nice, whats this for?
<zyga> ruby comes in debian + tar.gz and debdiff probably chokes on that
* Cashel perks
<Cashel> yeah.. alexandria doesnt apt-get install, just hangs for me...
* Cashel tries after this last update... 
<lucas> zyga: how do I reproduce your bug ?
<zyga> lucas: pull my package from REVU, run
<lucas> your package ?
<zyga> lucas: it needs libzoom-ruby1.8, also in REVU
<zyga> lucas: I packaged alexandria .0.6.1
<lucas> ok
<Cashel> ahhh seems to install nm :P
<zyga> Cashel: alexandria in the universe repo works, that's the older version
<Cashel> ahh yeah I noticed..
<Cashel> heard good things about it, now that I see it, its not what I wanted, hehehe figures
* Cashel has been keeping an eye out for something so manage e books... 
<dooglus> where should I report bugs with multiverse packages?
<ajmitch> malone
<dooglus> same place as for universe?
<ajmitch> yes
<dooglus> thanks
<dooglus> ugh.  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug redirects me to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug/+login , but when I try to log in, it tells me "you're already logged in".
<siretart> \sh: is it possible that there is something wrong with the domain servers of jabberme.net?
<\sh> yes...
<\sh> siretart, I'm just updating my domains to a bloody new secondary...stoopid schlund ;)
<siretart> oh. okay
<\sh> siretart, but you should get it
<siretart> okay. was just confused
<\sh> siretart, what's not working?
<\sh> i hate schlund
<slomo> re
<dholbach> hey slomo
<dholbach> slomo: we now have a MOTURuby team
<slomo> oh wonderfull... so they can start on writing a dh_ruby =) who are they?
<dholbach> slomo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
<\sh> siretart, runs again
<slomo> :
<slomo> :)
<ajmitch> sleep time
<ajmitch> night all
<slomo> gn8
<dholbach> sleep tight ajmitch
<sivang> night ajmitch
<ivoks> hi
<dholbach> hey ivoks
<ivoks> he hey!
<ivoks> eh, Barry, Barry :)
<siretart> \sh: jepp, works fine now
* siretart lunch
<dholbach> who wants to fix verbiste on amd64?
<slomo> what's the problem with it?
<dholbach> not installable on amd64
<dholbach> because it installs some crack that's also in locales package
<dholbach> must be a broken m4 script or something
<slomo> hm... why only on amd64?
<dholbach> dunno
<slomo> i'll take a look
* dholbach hugs slomo
<dholbach> slomo: did you have your exam already?
<slomo> sure... otherwise i wouldn't work on this now ;) went fine imho... but the exam was really strange
<slomo> is there a bug open for verbiste?
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> no, none open
<slomo> ok, where did you get the info from? ;)
<dholbach> tried to install it ;)
<dholbach> but ages ago
<dholbach> and discussed with seb about it
<slomo> ok ;)
<dholbach> and we figured that something was wrong with the m4 scripts shipped with it
<dholbach> but then i did something else and forgot about it
<dholbach> :)
<slomo> hehe ok
<slomo> it is installable on x86... hm
<lucas> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo, what's "MOM" in "MOM merging!" ? :)
<dholbach> merge-o-matic :)
<Lathiat> merge-o-matic
<lucas> ok
<slomo> dholbach: verbiste-gnome or verbiste? or both?
<ogra> lucas, search for "merge" in bugzila, every MOM bug has a link to MOM
<lucas> ok
<dholbach> slomo: both, they try to overwrite /usr/share/locale/locale.alias
<slomo> dholbach: ok, found the problem ;)
* lucas needs to do some real-life work before having fun with MOTURuby stuff.
<dholbach> slomo!!! :)
<slomo> dholbach: found, not fixed ;) what about a small hack which removes locale.aliases from the package by simply deleting it when it's there? or do we want something smarter? ;)
<ivoks> help :)
<slomo> btw... usr/share/locale/locale.alias				    base/locales,utils/zhcon [universe] ,text/verbiste [universe] ,devel/doc++ [universe] ,misc/belocs-locales-data [universe] 
<slomo> these all need fixing
<dholbach> yeah, they all seem to ship the same broken m4 stuff
<slomo> ok, i'll try to create a generic fix and debdiffs for the main stuff ;)
<slomo> dholbach: when there are any bugs about this just assign them to me... all my other bugs need more info or fixing upstream ;)
<dholbach> slomo: was not a regular bug report, i just found it while trying to install it :)
<slomo> dholbach: oh i'm blind... it's all universe ;)
<ivoks> how to edit initrd.im? :))
<slomo> ivoks: unpack it, repack it ;)
<ivoks> slomo: its  Linux Compressed ROM File System data
<slomo> ivoks: zcat initrd.img | cpio -i
<slomo> ivoks: for unpacking... for creating you must do something harder ;)
<slomo> ivoks: when there's something broken talk to jbailey
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> nope..
<ivoks> it isn't .gz
<ivoks> it's  Linux Compressed ROM File System data
<ivoks> cramfs
<slomo> and you can unpack it with the command i gave you
<ivoks> nope
<slomo> sure... works wonderfull here ;)
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> zcat: initrd.img-2.6.10-5-686-smp: not in gzip format
<ivoks> slomo: your initrd isn't cramfs
<slomo> /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-k7: gzip compressed data, from Unix, max compression
<slomo> ok ;)
<ivoks> yep, that's not it
<slomo> you don't use the initramfs stuff?
<ivoks> this is ubuntu's kernel
<ivoks> apt-get install linux-image-686-smp
<ivoks> on hoary
<ivoks> it produced cramfs
<slomo> oh hoary... don't ask me ;)
<ivoks> ah.. well...
<mikhail^> there's no maintainer for longrun in Universe>
<mikhail^> ?
<Lathiat> does the deskbar applet have a keyboard shortcut?
<ivoks> Lathiat: great tool, ha? :)
<Lathiat> well, mine seems a bit buggy
<Lathiat> it tries to expadn itself to make it as big as possible
<ivoks> it is too big...
<Lathiat> ?
* ivoks had a big fight right now... :/
<Lathiat> oops
<ivoks> teacher wanted my phone number
<ivoks> so he could call me whenever he wants...
<Lathiat> told him to stick it?
<ivoks> naturally, i didn't want to give it...
<ivoks> then he said that he will do everything that i don't work anymore on faculty
<ivoks> i said "ok"
<ivoks> :)
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> wtf
<Lathiat> he can't do that
<ivoks> stopid idiot
<ivoks> eh, he's an asshole
<Lathiat> go drop a 10 tonne shipment of ubuntu cds on top of him
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> he said he will try everything, probably, not succeed :)
<Kyral> Good morning MOTU people
<mikhail^> how do I "adopt" longrun in universe?
<dholbach> mikhail^: there's no need to, we do team maintenance
<dholbach> mikhail^: but if you want to push fixes for it, excellent
<mikhail^> dholbach: oh, okay... so who then can "patch in" my fixes/enhancements?
<mikhail^> dholbach: forwarding it upstream is a little... slow.
<dholbach> mikhail^: you can prepare the fixed package and any MOTU can sponsor your upload
<mikhail^> dholbach: hmmm... I already have the source package built here...
<mikhail^> dholbach: I also have the debdiff in the ubuntu-devel mailing list.
<mikhail^> dholbach: and I've uploaded the debdiff in three places.
<dholbach> mikhail^: if nobody answered it's usually a sign for people not knowing the codebase good enough
<mikhail^> dholbach: oh well... so any way for anyone to help me contribute to the community? ;)
* mikhail^ can't wait to get his key signed.
<mikhail^> dholbach: i've filed the enhancement upstream at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=331198
<mikhail^> dholbach: then there's a bug in malone (with the patch) just a while ago, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/longrun/+bug/2865
<mikhail^> i mean, bug i filed in malone.
<dholbach> mikhail^: ok super, so it won't get lost
<mikhail^> dholbach: however I've already buit the source package here... would that be better than the debdiff?
<dholbach> no, debdiff is perfect
<dholbach> OK, WHO in here starts off the MOTU Security team?
<mikhail^> dholbach: neat. thanks. :D
<dholbach> my mailbox is full of mails from debian-security-announce and some of the packages require a sync from debian to make sure breezy release is safe
<Lathiat> dholbach: yo
<Lathiat> dholbach: i did a couple things, was planning on doing more
<Lathiat> dholbach: send me details?
<Lathiat> i've been meaning to attack pitti's cve list
<Lathiat> altho he was mostly doing breezy stuff
<ivoks> odd
<ivoks> xfce reads .bashrc
<ivoks> but not .bash_profile
<dholbach> Lathiat: super. i added 2 links to MOTUSecurity - we should review pitti's list and look at debian-security-announce to be sure we didn't forget stuff to sync
<Lathiat> alright i'll check it out
<Lathiat> just doing real work right this second :)
<dholbach> oh... i won't stop you from doing it :)
<Lathiat> i should subscribe to DSA
<Lathiat> and have done so now :)
<dholbach> yeah, it's not that MUCH of traffic
<dholbach> and we should revamp the MOTUSecurity page a bit
<Lathiat> looks like a few a day
<Lathiat> i can deal with that
<Lathiat> im interested anyway
<dholbach> only the last weeks
<dholbach> last 2 weeks
<Lathiat> i used to be subscribed not shure what happened
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> i'll be back later
<slomo> hmm... why is the language-* stuff always been built when i wait for one of my uploads to compile? ;)
<slomo> dholbach: see breezy-changes for the french package ;)
<dholbach> ROCK :)
* dholbach hugs slomo
<dholbach> super!
<slomo> and now the other packages ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<slomo> dholbach: all 3 done :)
<bddebian> Hmm, everyone must be busy bug-fixing and fixing broken packages... ;-)
<zakame> hi all!
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> bddebian: I've sorted out the build-deps of lighttpd, they're a lot :))
<zakame> time to build the baz archives
<bddebian> Nice
<dholbach> slomo: hank you :))))
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<spayne> hi all
<sistpoty> hi spacey
<sistpoty> spayne even ;)
<bddebian> Heya spayne
* spayne WILL find time to do some packaging
<spayne> i keep having good intentions
<spayne> to fix some packages
<spayne> and i get onto other stuff
<spayne> what is the Wiki page again (sigh)
<bipolar> *cough*gnucash*cough*
* bipolar is currently fighting with gnucash.
<bipolar> I'm about to hang myself
<ogra> bipolar, not before you uploaded the fix please :)
<bddebian> bipolar: I am uploading now
<bipolar> ogra, there is no freeking way i'm going to be able to get .11 working and in a proper debian package.
<bipolar> bddebian, you're kidding me....
<bddebian> Nope, just synced from Debian this morning
<sistpoty> spayne: UniverseUnmetDeps
* spayne would like to find a nice simple package that just needs a simple fix :)
<bipolar> bddebian, thank you. I'll put the shotgun away now....
<bddebian> bipolar: I still have a couple of deps to fix quick though
<bipolar> bddebian, I hope if fixes the qfx/ofx importing problem.
<bipolar> s/if/it
<bddebian> bipolar: That's one of the reasons I brought it in
<bipolar> bddebian, you're my hero
<spayne> bddebian: i can't actually see any packages that need doing
<ogra> spayne, used the command from top of the page ?
* spayne hits him self for being an idiot
* bipolar offers spayne his shotgun
<bddebian> spayne: There's probably some easier stuff on Malone.  MOst of what is left on UnmetDeps is pretty screwed up
<bddebian> bipolar: :-)
<spayne> bddebian: URL for malone? it is launchpad?
* spayne gets the shoutgun from bipolar but puts it under the desk for the moment
<bddebian> spayne: Aye http://launchpad.ubuntu.com
<bipolar> bddebian, please let me know as soon as I can install the new gnucash.
<bddebian> bipolar: I'm working on the build-deps now so hopefully soon
<bipolar> :D
<bipolar> I sitll cant beleve how horrible gnucash is to build
<bipolar> it's a nightmare
<bddebian> Yes, it is
<zyga> bipolar: hi
<zyga> bipolar: what's horrible about it?
<bipolar> I hope they get the gtk2 version up soon too. gnucash is the uglest thing on my thing.
<bipolar> zyga, the dependancys.
<bddebian> Ugliest thing on your thing?? ;-)
<ogra> bipolar, pfft.... build gcompris or poker3d ...
<zyga> bipolar: /me looks
<bipolar> bddebian, s/thing/laptop
<bipolar> ogra, heh...
<zyga> lot's of old gnome/gtk
<zyga> s/'//
<bipolar> ok. lunchtime... bbiab
<bddebian> LaserJock: Uploaded your patch
<LaserJock> did it look ok? I was my first one
<bddebian> Worked perfect
<LaserJock> ok great. So I am sometimes useful ;-) I was beginning to think i was just a complainer
<LaserJock> Thanks for all your help bddebian. I can now use ghemical for work, I was beginning to think I was going to have to install another distro
<LaserJock> My boss needs me to get some computation chemistry work done so we can get a paper published
<bddebian> Awesome
<LaserJock> I gotta get to work, but thanks again bddebian. Ubuntu rocks again!
<sistpoty> <- off to movies... cya
<\sh> ogra: ping
<ogra> \sh, pong
<\sh> ogra: do u know when I was approved as member?
<ogra> not really
<ogra> but you blogged it ;)
* dredg gets really tired all of a sudden
<\sh> hmm...20 may...tuesday before was the 17...but I don't find the correct logs anymore
<\sh> found it
<bipolar> bddebian, hows it goin'?
<bddebian> bipolar: Waiting on libchipcard2-dev, then libaqbanking
<bipolar> bddebian, k. thanks for the work on this. I know it's a pain. :) much kudos
<bddebian> bipolar: Well let's hope it all works before dishing out any kudos ;-)
<bipolar> I'm happy to test it :) it cant really be worse.
<clark_ma> hey anyone have an idea about trading stocks ?
<dreamwave> i've got a laptop failing in the install process.  i think it has something to do with switching to the frambuffer in the install.  the laptop is a compaq presario 1920 (it has a wopping 64mb ram).
<dredg> clark_ma: yeah. i hear google.com can answer damn near anything
<dreamwave> looks like /usr/share/debconf/frontend is crashing.  or /sbin/debian-installer is crashing.
<hub> dholbach: all the package I have upload on REVU have been built in PPC
<dholbach> hub: ROCK
<jamessan|work> dreamwave: pretty sure you can tell it not to use the framebuffer when it starts up. check the help options when you go to boot off the cd
<dholbach> hub: will check on amd64 later tonight
<dreamwave> jamessan, i'll check again.
<hub> dholbach: I would do amd64 if I had the hardware :-/
<dholbach> hub: i completely understand
<dholbach> hub: i will mail you the buildlogs
<hub> dholbach: cool
* windex names a web browser tiefox, to further confuse the masses.
<dreamwave> jamessan, the F5 screen mentions using vga=771.  i even tried VGA=normal.  then, just before the language configuration, it switches to a frame buffer.  i can make the language selections, but then, just before it would go to the first step of install, the screen repeatedly goes white and blanks.  i all see the word "Killed" briefly after each blank.
<dreamwave> i tried nofb but that didn't work either
<bddebian> Does anyone have a problem running d4x??  Malone #2852.  This is the second post and there are 3 threads on ubuntuforums about it.  I cannot reproduce it.
<\sh> d4x?
<bddebian> \sh: Some download manager
<\sh> hmmm....let me check it when I finished my report
<bddebian> NP thx
<\sh> bddebian: well...you will be excited when you read my report :)
<bddebian> I will?
<\sh> yes
<bddebian> What kind of report?
<\sh> bddebian: you can read it later :)
<\sh> w8 :)
<bddebian> I didn't miss another MOTU meeting did I???
<\sh> no
<ogra> bddebian, next one is post release
<bddebian> Doh :-(
* lucas modified MOTUTeams to add MOTURuby
<\sh> wow...
<\sh> done
<\sh> I think I break the planet
<bddebian> \sh: w00t
<\sh> come on s9y...save the bloody post ;)
<\sh> http://planet.ubuntu.com/
<\sh> yeah the longest post I ever wrote
<\sh> now for d4x
<ryu> re
<spayne> hey all
<\sh> bddebian: i can't reproduce it either
<lucas> zyga, Lathiat : ping
<zyga> lucas: pong
<dholbach> lucas: i'm happy you get cracking in the team like that :)
<zyga> dholbach: ruby team :) ?
<lucas> zyga: I started working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby
<lucas> you might want to subscribe
<lucas> (to the wiki page)
<zyga> checking
<zyga> hmm
<zyga> who handles the wiki
<zyga> the message I got after subscribing was (translated back to english form polish) 'thank you for unsubscribing'
<lucas> maybe you were subscribed then ;)
<zyga> lucas: no :)
<zyga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTURuby?action=subscribe
<zyga> that's my url - I've just subscribed
<lucas> yes, but the unsubscribe address is the same one
<jkrogh> Isn't there anyone with enough perl-packaging knowledge to start a MOTUPerl team... then I'll be happy to give a hand.
* \sh things barry is shocked now ,-)
<\sh> thinks even ;)
<lucas> is there a way to get version numbers in debian unstable, ubuntu "unstable" and ubuntu "stable" on a single page somewher ?
<dholbach> jkrogh: that's excellent news
<bddebian> lucas: http://packages.debian.org
<bddebian> lucas: Ohh, nm
<tseng> write a script
<crimsun> you could script it
<lucas> I think that would be useful
<lucas> to have this somewhere
<crimsun> I end up loading the Debian and Ubuntu changelogs along with the Debian BTS anyhow
<lucas> crimsun: yup, but a web page summarizing this, with the good links, would be useful
<bddebian> \sh: You are on crack ;-)
<crimsun> lucas: absolutely
<\sh> bddebian: this wiki page wasn't my idea :)
<lucas> my script to get the list of packages MOTURUby has to take care of gives me 85 source packages
<lucas> that's quite a lot
<\sh> bddebian: and I doesn't even drink a beer
<bddebian> :-)
<\sh> I don't / didn't
<\sh> bah
<ivoks> hey all!
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey bddebian
<\sh> hola ivoks :)
<ivoks> ho ho \sh :)
* bddebian whistle innocently
<ivoks> bddebian: :))
<ivoks> bddebian: mlterm conflicter :)
<bddebian> ??
<ivoks> ah, never mind...
<bddebian> Did I screw up mlterm?
<ivoks> yup :)
<ivoks> no big deal, i fixed it
<bddebian> What'd I change?
<ivoks> mlterm-common installs icon
<bddebian> Doh
<ivoks> so, you changed mlterm to provide that same icon :)
<bddebian> See \sh, I'm stupid :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> no, you aren't!
<ivoks> you are great guy
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<ivoks> i wish i have so much time to help you more
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> last edited 2005-10-05 20:02:44 by Bddebian
<ivoks> :>
* bddebian whistles innocently some more
* ivoks will have more time now
<ivoks> since i solved some issues with my folks :)
<\sh> ivoks: means? ,-)
<\sh> *rotfl*
<\sh> bddebian: cheater ,-)
<ivoks> \sh: ?
<\sh> ivoks: he flooded the page with lies ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> \sh: Bah :-)
<bddebian> How the hell do I set PKG_CONFIG_PATH prior to running autogen.sh?
<ivoks> i hate autogen
<bddebian> Does anyone like anything?? :-)
<ivoks> as one my coworker said "Microsoft must be paying autoconf/automake guys"
* bipolar yawns
<bddebian> bipolar: I don't know WTF is up with libchipcard2???
<bddebian> And I can't get infinity or lamont
<siretart> hrhr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod?action=diff
<siretart> bddebian: looking at -changes, you definitly rock!
<bipolar> :\
<bipolar> bddebian, you need a newer version?
<bddebian> bipolar: It's waiting to build the newer version but I don't know why
<bddebian> siretart: Nah, ivoks has to come back and fix all my fixes ;-P
<bipolar> bddebian, it's constapated?
<bddebian> bipolar: Aye ;-)
* bipolar points to http://www.miralax.com/
<\sh> siretart: you read my post on the planet? I mentioned it now to the public that barry rocks da world :)
<tseng> anyone know anything about mod_auth_ldap
<tseng> and where it is in debian
<ivoks> TB in 2 hours,, right?
<\sh> what?
<\sh> TB was postponed yesterday
<\sh> I think to thursday?
<ivoks> could be... :)
<\sh> I propose 2000 UTC on Thursday, October 6th.  Can either of you attend at
<\sh> that time?
<\sh> --  - mdz
<ivoks> ah, ok
<jkrogh> Where should I start to read if I have some perl packages I'd like to have in "universe"?
<jkrogh> .. in order to get them packaged correctly, verified and included (hopefully :-)
<dholbach> jkrogh: best way is to   apt-get source   similar stuff
<dholbach> then have a look at PackagingTips on the wiki
<dholbach> then start packaging
<dholbach> then get it on REVU (wiki/REVU)
<dholbach> then get it reviewed and included :)
<siretart> TB? today?
<jkrogh> I read about REVU, is it working? .. it is stated "experimental" on the wiki.
<siretart> jkrogh: http://revu.tauware.de - surf and see ;)
<siretart> jkrogh: it's maintenance is rather experimental, but thats mainly our (my) problem ;)
<ivoks> jesus... no-ip.com
<jkrogh> Ok... I'll get to work :-)
<lamont__> bddebian: libchipcard2 is NEW
<bddebian> lamont__: Really?
<lamont__> buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.* shows it Uploaded.  so either it just built, or it's NEW
<jkrogh> I'd like to give the Catalyst packages from http://pkg-catalyst.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl + dependencies a short. Anyone aware of others doing the same?
<bddebian> lamont__: but: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libc/libchipcard2/1.9.14.99+1.9.15beta-1/
<jkrogh> s/short/shot/
<lamont__> universe/misc/libchipcard2_1.9.14.99+1.9.15beta-1: Uploaded by buildd+ross [optional:out-of-date] 
<bddebian> lamont__: I know, I saw that, that's why I'm confused :-)
<lamont__> if the binaries are Uploaded, and cron.daily has run, then they are NEW
<lamont__> or deliver debs with a lower version than something already in the archive.
<bddebian> lamont__: OK fair enough. Thx
<lamont__> but not the second case here
<bddebian> It shouldn't be new either afaict
<lamont__>  74452029384926ba2d7cd4fe7c1852c5 41754 misc extra libchipcard2-libgwenhywfar17-plugins_1.9.14.99+1.9.15beta-1_i386.deb
<lamont__> is not in the overrides.  kthxbyte
<bddebian> lamont__: I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand
<dholbach> zyga: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/devel/bazaar
<lamont__> bddebian: np
<lamont__> bddebian: see http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/indices/
<bddebian> lamont__: If it's in there it means it's new?
<lamont__> if there is a binary not listed in there, then it'll wait until the package is added by elmo
<lamont__> at which point, it'll be not-new
<lamont__> (NEW == "not found in the overrides file")
<lamont__> s/file/files/
<bddebian> lamont__: So that one binary is new from the libchipcard2 source package?  (Sorry I know I am being dense).
<lamont__> yes
<bddebian> phew, thx
<lamont__> rather, at least that one is new... I didn't look deep
<bddebian> Fair enough, at least I "get-it" now. :-)
<bipolar> bddebian, what does that mean? :)
<bddebian> bipolar: We have to wait until someone approves those binaries as new
<bipolar> bah!
<ajmitch> morning
<bipolar> afternoon
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<zyga> dholbach: I want bazaar-ng then :)
<dholbach> man, are you ALWAYS complaining about something?
<dholbach> :-p
<bddebian> More than ME? ;-P
<zyga> dholbach: nah I alwasy need to be on the bleeding edge
<zyga> dholbach: too bad my main system is runinng of an ancient scsi 500MB HDD
<dholbach> "I want bazaar!" ... "FUCK, we have bazaar? Then I want bazaar-ng!" ... "Oh wait... we have it? Then give me bazaar-royal-deluxe-2000"
<zyga> dholbach: LOL :D
<zyga> no bzr for hoary :/
<zyga> dholbach: for distributing arch independent stuff should I use any or all as arch?
<dholbach> zyga: if it's really arch independent...
<dholbach> then all
<dholbach> any gets built on all 4 archs
<ajmitch> no, you want bzr.newformat.asweaves for real COTD
<dholbach> ogra: ycombe * gcompris/ (ChangeLog src/boards/memory.c): fix a stupid bug causing crash in memory_tux.
<zyga> dholbach: hmm I did dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa and I got igrate-po-file_1.0.1-1_i386.changes
<zyga> why i386?
<dholbach> because you build it on an i386?
<ogra> dholbach, ??
<zyga> okay :)
<dholbach> ogra: was a recent cvs message, thought you'd want to know
<ivoks> every day is bugday :)
<ogra> dholbach, yes, thats already in ;)
<dholbach> ogra: it was JUST (1 minute ago)
<ogra> dholbach, yves is in #edubuntu ;)
<dholbach> rock
<ogra> dholbach, mdz would kill me if i made *any* change to this package ...
* ajmitch waves to ogra & dholbach 
<ogra> hey ajmitch
<ivoks> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 - i can't reproduce this one :)
* ogra builds scripted AI for ltsp's dhcpd.conf autogeneration....
<ivoks> ogra: good luck
* ogra hast little steam clouds raising from his head
* ajmitch looks to see if there's any open bugs left on malone
<zyga> dholbach: why does dpkg-buildpackage want to sign .i386.changes?
<zyga>  signfile ../migrate-po-file_1.0.1-1_i386.changes
<zyga> cat: ../migrate-po-file_1.0.1-1_i386.changes: No such file or directory
<dholbach> because you build it on an i386?
<zyga> dholbach: hmm I did dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa
<zyga> I want it to sign source.changes, not some nonexisting i386.changes
<dholbach> no *source.changes?
<zyga> dholbach: it's there - it just doesn't get signed
<dholbach> hrm
<ivoks> ?
<zyga> maybe I've borked control file
<zyga> never mind...
<ivoks> dholbach: you'll fix instabul?
<dholbach> ivoks: i have quite a lot of things to do atm
<ivoks> dholbach: ok, i just ask, since you assigned to your self :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: what is wrong with it?
<ivoks> ajmitch: out of the box it will crash on slower procs
<ivoks> since it encodes on-fly
<ivoks> or this bug isn't related to that :)
<sebest> beagle doesn't search in application?
<sebest> it was disabled in breezy to browse for application launchers?
<spayne> hey ho
<spayne> i've been looking through malone
<spayne> is there a way to search for universe bugs only?
<bddebian> spayne: 90% of them are Universe only
<dholbach> assigned to MOTU should be good
* spayne goes and tries to find one on his level
<TMM> anyone here running breezy that wants to look for me what the default keycode is for 'sleep' in system > preferences > keyboard shortcuts > sleep ?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> 0xdf
<TMM> thanks
<ivoks> lol
<bipolar> time to go home. later all!
<whiprush> morning ajmitch
<whiprush> question for you.
<ajmitch> yessir?
<whiprush> except for the obvious ones, can you think of any universe app that's a hidden gem?
<whiprush> I've got the obvious ones like f-spot and stuff.
<ajmitch> you know I was going to say f-spo
<whiprush> heh
* ajmitch thinks about what he regularly uses
<tseng> hi
<ajmitch> hello tseng
<dholbach> whiprush: fillets-ng, xblast-tnt, glom, ding for me :)
<whiprush> ta.
<whiprush> dholbach: I got in a good plug for motu at my talk at ohio linux fest.
<dholbach> WOW cool
<dholbach> send them here :)
<whiprush> dholbach: oh, also, what's the rough # of motus?
* whiprush is fridging at the moment.
<ajmitch> about 30?
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+members/
<whiprush> that's what I guessed.
<dholbach> although i thought we must have forgotten some
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> 31 on that list
<ajmitch> so I wasn't far off
<whiprush> so ... "over 30 developers!"
<ajmitch> but some MOTUs count for about 10 developers
<dholbach> and around 30 hopefuls :)
<tseng> not me.
<whiprush> tseng: you're small though
<ajmitch> tseng: no, you count for 20 :P
<whiprush> you're more concentrated motu.
<tseng> haha at you both
<whiprush> like, a redbull
<bddebian> heh
<whiprush> bddebian: are you working on gnome-launch-box?
<bddebian> For "fun"
<whiprush> a friend of mine patched it to work with newer gnome, but got no response from the imendio people
<bddebian> Oh sure, NOW you tell me :-)
<whiprush> well, the desktop-applet is the new great justice I suppose
<lucas> hello
<whiprush> hi!
<lucas> is there a mailing list for MOTU stuff ?
<lucas> or is it ubuntu-devel ?
<ajmitch> ubuntu-devel at the moment
<lucas> ok
<lucas> are there some weekly ubuntu-devel summaries or sting ?
<lucas> sthing
<lucas> ubuntu-devel is quite high volume
<ajmitch> not at the moment
<lucas> ok
<bddebian> whiprush: You know if he/she has a patch laying around so I could compare?
<whiprush> bddebian: looking for it now
<piman_> Hi; I'm wondering if #2743 against quodlibet can be fixed before breezy, or if not, if the package can just be removed?
<whiprush> StoneTable: got that patch for gnome-launch-box you did a few months ago?
<piman_> We're getting duplicate bug reports in the upstream BTS about it every few days, and it's annoying since we fixed the bug two months ago before GTK 2.8 (which is the cause of the crash) was out...
<ajmitch> piman_: so do you think it needs a rebuild, or a new version of quodlibet?
<piman_> Quod Libet is written in Python. :) It needs a new version.
<dholbach> piman_: so the bug is gtk 2.8 related?
<piman_> Yes.
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> we can probably sync that
<dholbach> piman_: or you fixed it in a new upstream version?
<piman_> It was fixed in Quod Libet 0.12 and the current version is 0.13.1.
<dholbach> oh rock
<ajmitch> 0.13.1 is in debian, will request sync of it
<dholbach> they have it in debian
<dholbach> ajmitch: thank you
<dholbach> thanks piman_ for the heads up
<dholbach> you guys ROCK!
<piman_> Is there some way that can happen automatically?
* piman_ is both Debian maintainer and upstream
<dholbach> piman_: no, we have to do that manually (we're 8 days before release)
<piman_> Well, is there some way it can happen automatically after release? :)
<ajmitch> piman_: oh good to have upstream around ;)
<torkel> whiprush: has anything happened with the kerberos ticket manager?
<ajmitch> piman_: it will happen automatically for 3 months or so
<whiprush> torkel: oh hey! yeah, it's working,has a panel applet and everything.
<dholbach> piman_: when we're before upstream version freeze, it gets done automatically
<piman_> Okay, thanks.
<whiprush> I need to convince the guy to put the code someplace though.
<dholbach> piman_: ROCK! :)
<torkel> whiprush: cool
<whiprush> torkel: I'll force him to blog about it or something and let you know
<torkel> whiprush: I'm very intrested in it
<whiprush> k
<piman_> One problem, if you guys don't have python-gst, you'll ned that for 0.13.1.
<ajmitch> piman_: how about the pydance bug on malone?
<whiprush> torkel: it's cool, it can destroy tickets, has a countdown thing, etc. etc.
<bddebian> OK, time to head home, later gang
<ajmitch> python-gst |    0.8.1-2 | http://10.18.1.1 breezy/main Packages
<ajmitch> will that version suffice?
<piman_> people still use pydance? haa?
<piman_> Yeah, it should.
<ajmitch> piman_: yeah there's a pydance bug I saw earlier
<ajmitch> will get url
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/pydance/+bug/1189
<piman_> That's intentional, the game doesn't use the mouse at all.
<ajmitch> probably not a bug at all :)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> will reject bug
<torkel> whiprush: does it support more than one ticket? i.e both username, username/root, ...
<whiprush> hm, dunno.
<ajmitch> piman_: looks like you've got a few packages in debian
<piman_> More than I'd like, sometimes. :)
<ajmitch> I know that feeling
<ajmitch> and yet I still file ITPs :)
<dholbach> it's better with team maintenance, isnt it? :)
<piman_> If you want to syn python-gst 0.8.2 it should be safe, it fixes a lot of memory leaks and I suspect Quod Libet is the only rdep.
<ajmitch> we can't
<ajmitch> python-gst is in main
<piman_> Oh.
<torkel> whiprush: if you can pursuade the guy to put something anywhere please let me know, or if he prefers it, he can contact me directly
<piman_> Weird, kind of.
<ajmitch> there are a few more rdepends than you think :)
<ajmitch> Reverse Depends: serpentine soundconverter istanbul
<ajmitch>   flumotion
<ajmitch>   ubuntu-desktop
<ajmitch>   serpentine
<ajmitch>   edubuntu-desktop
<whiprush> torkel: email pls.
<whiprush> er, what's your email.
<piman_> Yikes, suddenly it matters a lot more if I make a mistake :P
<torkel> whiprush: torkel@acc.umu.se
<ajmitch> piman_: yep :)
<piman_> Anyway, thanks for getting the updated QL in.
<whiprush> ql is pimp
<dholbach> :)
<piman_> I don't know about that, but thanks.
<dholbach> piman_: thanks for the heads up :)
<whiprush> I'm a gnome user, it's my destiny to use 67 mp3 players ...
<dholbach> whiprush: that was a clever comment... that's how i feel too
* ajmitch needs to write #68
<piman_> what's not in any of the current ones that you want?
<ajmitch> because the world needs another mp3 player..
* piman_ shrugs
<piman_> The world desperately needed another ID3v2 reader/writer when we wrote one. Sadly.
<dholbach> piman_: and that's what i loved about QL
<dholbach> piman_: you did a good job
<whiprush> piman_: ipod support.
<piman_> Nah, the other developer did most of that work. I write the crappy playing portion.
<whiprush> banshee seems to be getting there imo.
* ajmitch wonders what else he can add to the MOTU report
<piman_> Banshee's metadata support is bad..
<lucas> ajmitch: what are motu reports ?
<lucas> ok. google.
<dholbach> lucas: a monthly report about the motu activities
<dholbach> lucas: and i wanted to have it written for some days now... thanks ajmitch for the pointer
<whiprush> ajmitch: ooh, I need to fridge that
<ajmitch> dholbach: I wasn't trying to pressure you
<ajmitch> dholbach: since the report should be a *community* effort (hints to others) ;)
<dholbach> haha :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'm just not very eloquent or tactful ;)
<dholbach> excellent ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> what new MOTUs did we get in the last month?
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members shows a few with dates of 2005-09-*, but I know they've been around longer
<dholbach> nafallo, mez, slomo, madduck and comadreja where last month
<dholbach> (last motu report)
<ajmitch> yep
<dholbach> so lathiat, bddebian?
<ajmitch> seems to be
<Nafallo> ehm, haven't I been around longer than that? :-)
<ajmitch> Nafallo: I'd say so
<ajmitch> as are a few people
<ajmitch> but we're mainly caring about who was approved in the last month
<Nafallo> I've got upload rights 9th of August ;-)
<Nafallo> add two weeks and you know when I was approved :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-11
<lucas> where can I find the monthly MOTU reports ?
<dholbach> lucas: they were sent to the mailing lists, they should be in the archives
<lucas> ok
<Nafallo> are the archives fixed? :-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: we should put the links to them on a wiki/MOTUReport page, shouldnt we?
<lucas> shouldn't they be copied to the wiki for history ?
<ajmitch> lucas: they were just a report of what we got up to in the last months
<dholbach> lucas: google for "motu report"
<ajmitch> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> lucas: some even hit LWN
* ajmitch has nothing to fill in for himself again
<lucas> ok
<dholbach> ajmitch: you're kidding... what about tales about your recent karma addiction?
<dholbach> :)
<Nafallo> :-)
<ajmitch> meh, that's nothing
<whiprush> We can put them on the fridge now!
<Nafallo> hmm
<dholbach> FRIDGE
<dholbach> :)
<Nafallo> anyone else updated a system running hoary postgresql? ;-)
* ajmitch only has about 5 packages in the queue for fixing
<dholbach> Nafallo: i can tell you, who you can bug with bugs :)
<ajmitch> by 'queu' I mean a screen window for each :)
<Nafallo> I'm trying to figure out if it's mine or pitti's fault my database got prunned :-P
<ajmitch> Nafallo: probably your fault ;O)
<Nafallo> baah, Mithrandir just said the opposite :-P
<ajmitch> did you purge postgresql?
<ajmitch> or did the db suddenly disappear
<ajmitch> dholbach: shall I aim for 100 fixed by release then?
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes, 100 desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com bugs, kthxbye
<Nafallo> I updated it :-)
<dholbach> :)
<Nafallo> apt-get dist-upgrade
<Nafallo> _then_ my webapp couldn't log in to the database ;-)
<ajmitch> dholbach: hah
<ajmitch> dholbach: I did the crazy thing & subscribed there
<dholbach> ajmitch: that was only the 1st step :)
<ajmitch> 100 bugs fixed there by release? hm
<dholbach> will be more of a wrestle with matt/kamion to get upload approval for each fix *100 times :)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> 'oh, let's sync this' 'NO'
<ajmitch> mm, nice regressions there in some of those bugs
<dholbach> which ones?
<ajmitch> sound-juicer now segfaulting on preferences
<ajmitch> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17066
<ajmitch> upstream bug
* ajmitch uses SJ a bit
<dholbach> *cry*
<ajmitch> don't worry, you've still got a few days to get a fix in ;)
<dholbach> thank you :)
<ajmitch> and even gparted bugs
<dholbach> yeah, working on them, will upload a fix after RC
<dholbach> upstream got it done in cvs
<ajmitch> ooh, 17101 can be closed
<ajmitch> but 17104 needs fixed asap
<dholbach> anybody in here noticted GDM SLOWNESS recently?
<whiprush> dholbach: you mean when it shows up?
<whiprush> like, in chunks?
<dholbach> whiprush: yes, taking around 2-3 seconds longer
<whiprush> yeah
<dholbach> whiprush: seb128 needs somebody to test a patch
<sistpoty> hi folks
<whiprush> dholbach: can't until tomorrow. :-/
<whiprush> but maybe I can find someone
<StoneTable> whiprush:  you need that patch?
<whiprush> StoneTable: that bddebian guy is working on it
<whiprush> lemme find his mail
<dholbach> whiprush: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/libgnomecanvas/
<whiprush> StoneTable: bddebian@bddebian.com, can you mail it to him?
<whiprush> dholbach: okey
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> :)
<whiprush> bug #?
<StoneTable> sure. There were two patches.  I'll send him both.  is he expecting them?
<whiprush> StoneTable: yeah
<StoneTable> sent
<StoneTable> cc'd you on it
<dholbach> ajmitch: how you like that version of MOTUReportDraft
<dholbach> ajmitch: it needs love, but it's a start :)
<dholbach> oooh, it will be the 8th
<dholbach> and i forgot the new motus
<dholbach> who adds?
<ajmitch> dholbach: let me look
<ajmitch> no need to write it as a 'karma addiction'
<dholbach> maybe add a link to the meeting minutes?
<dholbach> hm, lucas left
* ajmitch will also clean up some spelling & grammar
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> 'what was most to YOU' ?
<ajmitch> missing important, right?
<sistpoty> erm... should motuminutes go to -user as well? (i sent them to -devel only last time)
<ajmitch> motu minutes are generally -devel
<ajmitch> motu report goes to both
<sistpoty> ah... now i see the difference... should look before writing *g*
<ajmitch> "The last have been quite hectic" ?
<ajmitch> the last month has been..?
<ajmitch> last weeks?
* ajmitch has made those changes now, comments welcome
<dholbach> ajmitch: just to inform the world of what we talk all day :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes, weeks :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: see report now
<ajmitch> well once it's saved..
<ajmitch> ok, now look ;)
<dholbach> yeah, i'll wait half an hour :)
<sistpoty> looks good :)
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReport is up now too
<zyga> dholbach: don't you ever sleep, no really?
* ajmitch stripped out that 'karma addiction' comment
<Mithrandir> zyga: he sleeps between 23:59 and 00:00
<ajmitch> oh no
* zyga thought he sleeps on the leap second ;-)
<ajmitch> I thought that libghc6-cabal-dev package was removed?
<ajmitch> phpmyadmin ftbfs on the buildd because yada won't install
* ajmitch sighs
<sistpoty> libghc6-cabal-dev should be removed, if it isn't ... iirc slomo did the request
<ajmitch> yes, I know
<dholbach> no ajmitch mentioned?
<dholbach> not really... i wished i was a bit more productive
<ajmitch> no, ajmitch isn't mentioned
<tseng> if you sort malone bugs asscending, Wishlist is first
<tseng> the other way
<tseng> Low is first
<tseng> very useful
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cabal package config files have changed... i'm just fiddling with exactly this for hat
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yada is main?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> otherwise I would have got a sync
<sistpoty> ajmitch: if yada is cabalized, a mere rebuild might do the trick... though i haven't gone through that cabal stuff altogether yet
<ajmitch> so I'm not sure where the ghc6-cabal dep is coming from
<ajmitch> could be a dodgy chroot setup
* ajmitch will ask lamont__ or infinity
<tseng> i built phpmyadmin at work today on amd64
<tseng> w/o issue
<ajmitch> I built it on my box as well before I uploaded
<ajmitch> since I don't upload stuff I haven't built :)
<dholbach> everybody: MOTUReportDraft
* lamont__ decides to leave before anyone asks anything about ghc65
<lamont__> hrm.. I wonder if ghc6 will successfully bootstrap on ia64 now
<ajmitch> lamont__: do you know why it's trying to setup on the buildd?
<ajmitch> when nothing should depend on it in this package?
<sistpoty> lamont__: ghc5 should be morgued... i already wrote elmo a mail
<ajmitch> lamont__: right, just read build log, libghc6-cabal-dev was not pulled in, but was already half-installed (phpmyadmin build log, building on vernadsky)
<lamont__> grumble
<lamont__> so fix it so it successfully removes too
<ajmitch> we've already tried & did a workaround a few weeks ago
<sistpoty> lamont__: there should be only one ghc-pkg command in prerm/postinst... it's safe to manually remove this command and prerm/postinst should be fine
<Kyral> Hey any MOTUs feel like sponsoring a new package to the Universe?
<ajmitch> by the look of all the failed packages, it's affected a *lot*
<ajmitch> Kyral: you've put it on revu, and MOTUs have checked over it & advocated it?
<Kyral> Not yet, I dunno what I have to do ;P
<Kyral> I literally just built the thing
<ajmitch> sistpoty: want to guide him through that?
<ajmitch> I have to run out
<dholbach> ok, who proofreads the report again? :)
<ajmitch> not me
<ajmitch> I see you've readded somethign about me :P
* ajmitch will be back in > 1 hour
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no problem ;)
<blueyed> AFAICS the package scponly should be bumped to 4.1, because of security fixes, for breezy. 4.1 is in debian testing. Should I file it into Malone?
<sistpoty> dholbach: shall i correct spelling mistakes or rather tell them you here?
<Kyral> I know I am allowed to upload to REVU, but I am not sure how to do it
<dholbach> sistpoty: do whatevery you want... it's a WIKI thing... and i highly appreciate you taking action there
<sistpoty> dholbach: ok
<sistpoty> Kyral: there's a howto in the wiki REVU
<Kyral> Okay
<Kyral> THat don't look right...
<Kyral> I don't think it uploaded...
<sistpoty> dholbach: looks fine... however iirc bddebian was motu when the last issue came out already? wouldn't it sound weird to welcome him again?
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> well
<dholbach> then
<Kyral> I'll deal with this later
<sistpoty> dholbach: plz check, my memory isn't that good ;)
<dholbach> ... mention BddebianIsGod instead :-p
<sistpoty> yep
<TMM> meh, everytime I find a good app I want to package, it's already packaged ;)
<TMM> I'll never get any packages in like this :P
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach> TMM: UniverseCandidates on the wiki might help you
<dholbach> that's what users want
<TMM> OK
<TMM> what do I do with a package once I think it's good enough? I didn't quite get that from the wiki
<StoneTable> I have one you can package ;)
<sistpoty> TMM: get it reviewed... probably revu is a good place for this ;)
<TMM> revu?
<Cashel> Hello,  I cant seem to find a apache2 version of libapache-mod-ssl .. do I have to install the old apache common stuff to get ssl or is this missing? (or am I dumb?)
<sistpoty> TMM: http://revu.tauware.de... see REVU entry in the wiki as well
<StoneTable> Does an app have to be packaged in debian to get it into universe?
<TMM> ahhhhh :)
<tseng> its prefered, but no
<TMM> sistpoty, sorry :)
<sistpoty> TMM: np ;)
<TMM> sistpoty, would that be my launchpad pass it asks for?
<StoneTable> alright.  I need to get someone to package and/or submit my naut extension then
<sistpoty> TMM: no, it's a bit more difficult...
<TMM> sistpoty, this is going to suck, right?
<sistpoty> TMM: erm... if you have a signed key, I can add you an account quite fast ;)
<TMM> sistpoty, what kind of key would that be? my ssh public key?
<sistpoty> TMM: gnupg, with which you sign mails
<TMM> sistpoty, which I don't, but I should anyway...
<TMM> I'll be making keys, just a sec, I 'intended' to do it anyway
<sistpoty> hehe
<blueyed> Is anybody willing to sync scponly? Or will it automatically get synched before release? Could I help with it (not being a MOTU)?
<dholbach> blueyed: no, AFTER release will be autosyncs
<dholbach> blueyed: before release we need good reasons to request (manually) - because we don't want to break stuff
<dholbach> blueyed: that's not a general no
<blueyed> dholbach: sure. Here is a changelog of upstream: http://www.sublimation.org/scponly/ - which fixes security issues (+svn).
<dholbach> security issues should be fine
<dholbach> we have to make sure it builds and works in breezy
<dholbach> (and that dependant programs (if any) work fine too)
<blueyed> of course. Who would make the merge/testing?
* sistpoty needs a cigarette now... brb
<dholbach> hehe, you :)
<dholbach> sistpoty: me too
* sistpoty hands dholbach a fag and a lighter
<blueyed> It might be nice to have some kind of unit testing for different packages that have to pass before upload. Is something like this used/considered?
<TMM> perhaps, a 4k keysize was a tad exaggerated
<grayman> erm what was the problem with time syncs on boot? is it because eth came up to late?
<TMM> this is taking forever :)
<blueyed> dholbach: I'll take a look at the procedure tomorrow.. night.
<dholbach> blueyed: thanks for being here and doing that work :)
<dholbach> sistpoty: i didnt hear the word 'fag' for ages :)
<TMM> pretty cool program on national geographic here in .nl
<TMM> blocks of alluminium of 15 tonns made out of sodacans :)
<TMM> pretty nifty
<TMM> they make cans out of it again too :P
<TMM> sistpoty, ok, I've got a key :)
<sistpoty> TMM: export it to a keyserver (imo gpg --send-key yourkeyid)
<sistpoty> TMM: then send a signed mail to keyring@revu.tauware.de, stating that you wish to be added to the keyring
<TMM> what keyserver should I use?
<sistpoty> TMM: use the default one ;) iirc they are synced among each others
<dholbach> ok, will send the MOTUReport tomorrow - please REVIEW and CHANGE accordingly
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> i will now go to bed, have a nice evning
<ogra_> night dholbach
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<hubW> is there a good way to bootstrap a package for CDBS
<hubW> like dh_make but cleaner
<hubW> ?
<sistpoty> hubW: what do you mean with bootstrap?
<hubW> dh_make
<dholbach> hubW: looking at packages on REVU should make it easy
<hubW> dholbach: I was more thinking of a tool
<hubW> :-)
<TMM> sistpoty, there doesn't seem to be a default one...
<dholbach> hubW: or https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
<dholbach> hubW: or /usr/share/doc/cdbs/examples :)
<hubW> I have that doc
<hubW> nevermind
<sistpoty> TMM: i use "keyserver x-hkp://subkeys.pgp.net"
<TMM> I just found it in the manpage
<TMM> ok, mail send
<TMM> signed and all :)
<sistpoty> TMM: not here yet... probably will go around some corners ;)
<TMM> my mailserver isn't all that great
<grayman> hmmm
<grayman> isnt gpg have a locale?
<grayman> or it wasnt included?
<TMM> it's gnu software, you'd think it uses gettext
<grayman> well it was translated for hoary as i see in rosetta
<grayman> but its english in breezy
<TMM> everything is english in my breezy ;)
<grayman> hah
<grayman> thats only you ;)
<TMM> sistpoty, there yet?
<grayman> also that last app in internet menu is screwed
<TMM> Xchat?
<grayman> no
<grayman> i dont even know what is it
<TMM> start it :)
<grayman> because the fonts screwed
<grayman> ah
<grayman> tsclient
<TMM> I wouldn't know... :(
<sistpoty> TMM: not yet... probably my the mailserver of my university sucks again (it almost always has extreme lags)
<TMM> what locale do you use?
<TMM> sistpoty, 'extreme'? :)
<grayman> russian
<TMM> grayman, I can't help you there then, my russian isn't quite up to speed :)
<grayman> heh
<grayman> it just sits there and looks ugly
<sistpoty> TMM: from 10mins to 2-3h
<TMM> sistpoty, d*mn
<TMM> sistpoty, what are you going to do anyway? what will I have to do?
<grayman> i guess that i can try and fix it
<TMM> grayman, with russian letters, I'd say it ALL looks ugly ;)
<sistpoty> TMM: I will add you to the keyring of revu and create an account on revu. then you can upload to revu via dput
<grayman> TMM, now lets not start
<TMM> grayman, that was just a joke :)
<TMM> sistpoty, dput?
<grayman> i know ;)
<sistpoty> TMM: uploads debian packages to a server, explained on the REVU wiki-page
<TMM> ok
<TMM> I'll shut up now
<TMM> and just read
<TMM> :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> TMM: once you are a motu, uploading is pretty much done the same way, so consider this as motu-training ;)
<TMM> OK, I will
<grayman> so who is responsible for locales?
<grayman> or fonts
<sistpoty> grayman: sorry, no idea
<xerxas> hi
<sistpoty> hi xerxas
<xerxas> does breezy uses a font server ?
<crimsun> no
<grayman> meh
<xerxas> crimsun, are you sure ?
<crimsun> no Ubuntu releases have by default. Yes.
<xerxas> crimsun, my xorg.conf have a font server line
<xerxas> I didn't reinstalled xorg for long
<crimsun> mine doesn't have one
<xerxas> ok
<xerxas> so I can safely remove it
<crimsun> I've done dist-upgrades from Warty and Hoary as well as a clean Breezy install
<xerxas> I use a colony 3 updated system
<grayman> hrm
<grayman> could they possibly foget to include a font?
<TMM> sistpoty, ok, packaging stuff now :) I'll be awaiting your mail :)
<xerxas> grayman, ?
<crimsun> did you run dexconf ever?
<xerxas> crimsun, don't think so
<crimsun> the default should not ever put in a font server line
<grayman> xerxas, looks like tsclients russian locale on clean breezy gives nonsense
<grayman> and
<xerxas> grayman, ahh , you're speaking about something else, sorry , didn't got it
<grayman> yeah
<grayman> and in rosetta i see the same nonesense in tsclient translation
<grayman> is it something that should go to dev?
* ajmitch returns
<sistpoty> wb ajmitch
<ajmitch> sistpoty: MOTU report not sent out yet, I hope?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no... dholbach said he would do it tomorrow
<whiprush> crimsun: so yeah, your buddies seemed pretty cool. Didn't have enough time to talk to them though.
<ajmitch> ok, last change introduced a spelling mistake in the first line ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ajmitch> dict eigth
<ajmitch> No definitions found for "eigth", perhaps you mean:
<ajmitch> gcide:  Eigh  Eight  Eighth
<ajmitch> ;)
<whiprush> ajmitch: ooh I'm ready to Fridge you.
<sistpoty> TMM: sorry, i gave you the wrong email-adress: it should be tiber@tauware.de
<ajmitch> whiprush: fridge me?
<sistpoty> TMM: wrong again ;)
<sistpoty> TMM: keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<ajmitch> I hope that's not a euphemism for dropping a fridge on me
<whiprush> heh
<whiprush> no, you're status report I mean
<ajmitch> not my report
<ajmitch> the MOTU team's report
<whiprush> yes. :D
<TMM> sistpoty, ok :)
<TMM> sistpoty, send again :)
<TMM> what is the best way to determine what your application's build-dependencies are? is there an automated way?
<hubW> TMM: configure
<TMM> the 'hack' in the debian new maintainers guide doesn't work very well
<hubW> or README
<TMM> ghehehe, ok :)
<sistpoty> TMM: account created, you should receive a mail rsn ;)
<sistpoty> TMM: you can upload to revu now (if i didn't get it wrong ;)
<TMM> cool :)
<TMM> I'll finish this package and upload it
<TMM> sistpoty, I just dput that changes file, right? then it does everything else automagically?
<TMM> (just to be sure I understood correctly)
<Kyral> hoy hoy hoy
<sistpoty> TMM: yep that's it
<Kyral> I followed the Wiki and uploaded my package to REVU
<TMM> sistpoty, is an icon manditory?
<TMM> sistpoty, because this tool doesn't have one of its own :)
<sistpoty> TMM: for desktop-stuff it's pretty much welcomed... but i don't think it's mandatory (from the debian-policy)
<sistpoty> TMM: as goes for .desktop files
<TMM> sistpoty, this one doesn't include it's own .desktop, can I just rely on the menu.ex stuff?
<TMM> sistpoty, is there an ubuntu specific howto anyway? :)
<sistpoty> TMM: sorry, i don't know pretty much about the desktop-stuff yet ;)
<TMM> hmmm
<TMM> no howto or anything?
<Kyral> happy no build?
<sistpoty> i haven't searched for one yet... but you could try to look at some examples
<sistpoty> from other packages
<TMM> I suppose :)
<sistpoty> Kyral: do you mean package "happy"?
<Kyral> ja ja
<sistpoty> it doesn't build? thought i fixed this one
<Kyral> I'm just looking at the "Packages That Need Love"
<ajmitch> right, that wiki page probably needs cleaning :)
<Kyral> what about alex?
<ajmitch> what page are you looking at, btw?
<sistpoty> hehe, i wanted to ask the same thing
<Kyral> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGhc6Transition
<ajmitch> right
<sistpoty> oh... that page is pretty much outdated
<ajmitch> sistpoty: go forth & clean it!
<sistpoty> will do tomorrow ;)
<Kyral> Damnit I wanted to help :D
<ajmitch> want me to do it now then?
<ajmitch> I can check breezy-changes for stuff that was uploaded
<sistpoty> ajmitch: if you got time, feel free to do so ;)
<TMM> not very helpfull, the gedit package :)
<ajmitch> TMM: hmm?
<ajmitch> TMM: what are you doing to gedit?
<sistpoty> Kyral: you could try UniverseUnmetDep or fixing malone bugs
<sistpoty> s/UniverseUnmetDep/UniverseUnmetDeps/
<ajmitch> Kyral: anything not in state 'accepted' on https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs
<Kyral> well, I CANNOT confirm this one https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2741
<Kyral> VLC works just fine for me :D
<Kyral> Whats that wierd version he is using? Janus?
<TMM> ajmitch, nothing, trying to get examples
<TMM> trying to figure out a way to copy my own .desktop file over
<TMM> something in rules perhaps...
<crimsun> Kyral: ask for apt-cache policy vlc
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2772 <---Confirmed...
<crimsun> if it's not from breezy/universe, it's marked invalid
<Kyral> Shortcuts only seem to work in FullScreen
<ajmitch> crimsun: or multiverse
<crimsun> err, are they in multiverse finally?
<ajmitch> no, it's universe
<crimsun> whew
<ajmitch> but packages like that tend to end up in multiverse at times :)
<crimsun> but I do wish they were in multiverse :(
<crimsun> it's simply unbuildable with ffmpeg support due to the libpostproc-dev fiasco
<crimsun> to make vlc even halfway useful I have to kludge in an upstream ffmpeg
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2741 <---Like that?
<crimsun> Kyral: that bug report lacks any semblance of information
<Kyral> I find VLC very useful. Just can't play AVI well...but thats what Totem-Xine + w32codecs are for
<crimsun> Kyral: err sorry, needed to refresh
<Kyral> lol
<crimsun> yes, that's fine
<crimsun> if it's not from /universe, mark it invalid please
<Kyral> Yah, I have the same version number, but ~ubuntuwhatever from Universe
<ajmitch> ah, backports?
<Kyral> no...Backports have the extension ~ubp
<Kyral> and I know for a fact that offical packages override them
<ajmitch> and breezy packages don't have ~ in the version
<Kyral> sorry
<Kyral> -ubuntu
<Kyral> long day :P
<ajmitch> 0.8.2-1ubuntu3 I assume
<Kyral> yup yup
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2772 <---Confirmed. Should I put that in comments and elaborate that Keyboard Shortcuts only seem to work in Fullscreen?
<crimsun> yes
<Kyral> and I don't think I have enough access to mark things invalid. I don't see it on my menu on the right
<sistpoty> Kyral: click on the package name ;)
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> ty ty. I'm still new at this
* sistpoty also didn't find this for quite some time
<Kyral> So should I mark that other VLC bug as confirmed or?
<crimsun> you may
<Kyral> What status?
<crimsun> new or accepted
<ajmitch> I'd usually just leave a comment
<ajmitch> and only put status 'accepted' if you're working on it
<Kyral> Yah I can't work on it
<Kyral> I just left a comment :D
<crimsun> sure, leave it new.
<Kyral> Already did :D
<crimsun> hopefully I'll be able to mark it closed with the next upload
<Kyral> That would be nice actually...
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/1652 <--I think I actually have a fix for this...
<Kyral> Axk....I forgot I'm not a member of the MOTU group and got a couple emails about it
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> I'm just a MOTU-In-Training
<sistpoty> ajmitch: do you happen to know where dcut.*.commands come from (obviously uploads by dput)?
<zakame> heya all! :D
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yes, something uploaded to remove files from the queue, usually?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: what is the question, if you know they come from dput?
<ajmitch> dcut, actually..
<sistpoty> because that's strange behaviour for revu (see /home/ftp/incoming/ on tiber.tauware.de)
<sistpoty> i just can't figure out what's going on actually ;)
<Kyral> Did it break? </Stupid Question>
<ajmitch> sistpoty: simple, someone didn't want their crossfire package uploaded :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> Kyral: was that upload from you?
<Kyral> Nope
<Kyral> Mine is the Futurama-Fortune-Mod
<ajmitch> sistpoty: best just to rm the lot
<sistpoty> ok
<TMM> hmm, installing arbitrary files from rules/ is pretty hard :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: removed ;)
<ajmitch> TMM: not really :)
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/1652 <---Can I close this out if I know whats wrong?
<crimsun> certainly file a comment prior
<Kyral> Yah yah. Clear it with you guys first
<Kyral> commented
<sistpoty> Kyral: btw. i just glanced at fortune-mod-futurama... plz. try to fix http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/fortune-mod-futurama-0510052000/lintian
<Kyral> Yah, wazzat mean?
<TMM> ajmitch, not? please, explain :)
<sistpoty> Kyral: remove the *.ex files from debian dir
<Kyral> ah *smack self in face*
<sistpoty> Kyral: apart from that you should not build a native package...
<Kyral> ??
<sistpoty> Kyral: if you downloaded that package from somewhere
<Kyral> No, its not even a compile if you look at it. How do I make it -all?
<TMM> ajmitch, aaahh.. you need to give the dirs in ubuntu/dirs where the stuff is supposed to go :)
<sistpoty> Kyral: ok, then a native package is fine... if you don't need to compile it, change architecture to all in control-file
<Kyral> kk
<Kyral> then resubmit it?
<sistpoty> yep
<Kyral> Same version?
* sistpoty now really needs to go to bed... cya tomorrow
<sistpoty> Kyral: yes
<Kyral> k, ty
<Kyral> ty all for putting up with my stupid questions D:
<sistpoty> err... dunno what naming scheme for native ubuntu packages there is actually ;)
<sistpoty> np
<sistpoty> g'night
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> hi bddebian... /me leaves, you come in ;)
<bddebian> Heya bmonty, sistpoty
<sistpoty> so gn8 bddebian
<Kyral> Anyone wanna clear me to close out #1652?
<ajmitch> bddebian is the bug master that we look  up to, so ask him :)
<bddebian> :-(
<bipolar> bddebian, yo
<bddebian> Kyral: Why doesn't it work?
<bddebian> Heya bipolar
<bddebian> bipolar: Still doesn't look like they're in yet :-(
<Kyral> bddebian, why? Prolly because VLC for GNOME and VLC for GTK are just different libraries that customize VLC
<Kyral> just like VLC for Qt
<bddebian> Ohh, I see what you are saying.  I misread the comment.
<bipolar> bddebian, heh
<bddebian> Go ahead and close.  Of course crimsun needs to get VLC in.. ;-P
<bipolar> bddebian, is it all set up waiting for authorization or something?
<Kyral> ty
<Kyral> yet...nah I'm not good enough to be part of the MOTU group
<bddebian> bipolar: One of the binaries from libchipcard2 is sitting in NEW :-(
<bddebian> Kyral: ??
<bipolar> bddebian, so someone has to put a stamp on it, eh?
<Kyral> Everytime I comment I get an email saying its being held for review because I'm not part of the MOTU group ;P
<Kyral> so I should set it "fixed"?
<ajmitch> was anything done to fix it?
<Kyral> Its not a bug per say
<bddebian> bipolar: I think given time, they self clear but I would prefer it get bumped manually
<ajmitch> we generally mark non-bugs as repected
<ajmitch> s/repected/rejected/
<bddebian> Kyral: That's a mailing list thing.  I get those too
<Kyral> k
<Kyral> marking as rejected
<Kyral> Okay....why is Evolution acting odd?
<bmonty> because Evolution sucks? :)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> Hi bddebian
<LaserJock> well, I played around with ghemical today. Everything worked as far as mopac but is sure does have a lot of bugs :-<
<TMM> woot
<TMM> my first package :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Sorry to hear that :-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: me too. I guess it is in development but the ui could use some work and it keep segfaulting on me
<ajmitch> LaserJock: probably why it's built as it is in debian :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch:?
<TMM> is it supposed to show up in revu immediately ?
<bmonty> anyone know if loop-aes is in the kernel image?  I looked but I can't find it.
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/1078 <---Can I mark this as WishList?
<bddebian> bmonty: I thought someone had said that but I don't know for sure
<bmonty> hmm, lots of bugs about using esd....Dapper is hopefully going to ditch esd, right??
<TMM> I hope ESD and arts both die a slow, gruesome death
<TMM> in the near future
<TMM> :)
<Kyral> ALSA! ALSA!
<TMM> well. fast... but still painful and gruesome
<TMM> alsa and ubuntu automagically configuring dmix (or jack)
<Lathiat> dmix
<bmonty> alsa and dmix would be nice
<Lathiat> err
<Lathiat> dmix is part of alsa
<bmonty> my main machine has two sound cards, so it doesn't bother me, but sound on my laptop is annoying
<bmonty> Lathiat: yup
<Lathiat> that does software mixing to allow more than 1 program to play at once
<TMM> my laptop has hardware mixing :)
<Lathiat> nice
<TMM> jack could do software mixing as well automatically
<Lathiat> lucky for you
<bmonty> TMM: doesn't dmix use the hardware mixing if available?
<bmonty> or do you have to configure it?
<TMM> it probably does... but I never configured anything
<TMM> on no distro
<TMM> but, I also read somewhere that from a certain alsa version dmix is implied automagically for the PCM devices
<Lathiat> yes, from recently
<TMM> well, then I never needed it :)
<Lathiat> a few cards had hardware mixing
<TMM> first, I had an i810 soundcard in my previous laptop now ali5451... but that also does hardware mixing apparently
<Lathiat> liek some of the sound blasters
<Lathiat> but for the most part they dont
<Lathiat> i810 doesn't do hardware mixing
<Lathiat> at least, neither of mine do
<TMM> then dmix kicks in automagically for quite a while, I never configured a thing :)
<Lathiat> its been in breezy for a long time
<Lathiat> unless youve been using esd or whatever
<TMM> not for most things
<TMM> It's not even loaded
<bmonty> does GNOME still require esd, or is it an ubuntu choice to have it?
<TMM> do you get like email about packages you upload to revu?
<bmonty> TMM: nope
<TMM> bmonty, it depends on it, but you can disable it
<TMM> bmonty, how long untill it should show up on the webpage? I just deleted it from my local computer by accident :)
<TMM> so I want to redownload it, fast :)
<bmonty> TMM: I think it processes the upload queue every 5 mins
<bmonty> it doesn't take long
<TMM> ok
<bipolar> bmonty, I think that gnome is moving over to gstreamer for everything. That outputs to alsa, oss, esd, arts, whatever.
<Kyral> icky GStreamer
<bmonty> bipolar: cool
<TMM> hey, how do I build a source package if I don't apt-get source it but seperately download the .orig.tar.gz the diff and the dsc?
<bipolar> Kyral, gstreamer rules!!!
<bddebian> TMM: dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<TMM> ah, thanks
<Kyral> gstreamer sucks
<TMM> cool, it's actually working :)
<grayman> whats wrong with gstreamer?
<TMM> Kyral, what's wrong with gstreamer? it's an amazing api to work with :)
<TMM> well, better than anything else anyway
<bipolar> I hope kde moves to gstreamer. it's been mentioned.
<bmonty> bddebian: check out #773, reject?
<TMM> why is there a lightbulb and a hammer next to my submission? does that mean something is wrong? (the lightbulb?)
<ajmitch> bmonty: why reject?
<bddebian> bmonty: Hmm, dunno.  ajmitch ?
<ajmitch> TMM: it's a new package?
<ajmitch> bmonty: it looks valid enough at a glance
<bmonty> non-standard setup, and I think the problem is from the HOWTO, but I'm checking
<TMM> ajmitch, does it means that? :)
<ajmitch> TMM: yes
<LaserJock> heah bddebian:  should I report ghemical bugs to malone or should I talk to the ghemical guys themselves?
<TMM> ok, cool
<TMM> and people'll look at it then? and then do what? I can't change anything on the packages there... if I test someone else's package, how do I give feedback?
<grayman> erm
<bddebian> LaserJock: Better to get the fixes upstream if possible but a Malone bug it OK to file too
<grayman> you need to be a reviewer i think
<TMM> there's not much info :(
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, what if some of the stuff is fixed in CVS. Is it ok to make a patch for our source packages?
<grayman> TMM, it was written in the wiki
<bddebian> LaserJock: Unfortunately probably not for breezy at this point but you can always try :-)
<TMM> grayman, where? :)
<grayman> lemme find
<bmonty> good night guys
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty
<tritium> good night bmonty
<grayman> TMM, about the reviewer in the revu wiki
<TMM> ah, I see you can apply for the job
<LaserJock> cya all, thanks bddebian
<bddebian> LaserJock: Gnight.  Sorry man :(
<LaserJock> that's ok , I got mopac in and we got ghemical out of UnmetDeps. That's good enough for me right now
<tritium> bddebian, after reading dholbach's email, I think you should put your boss hat on and delegate some tasks.
<TMM> should I advocate my own new package?
<bddebian> TMM: You should bugfix and fix broken packages ;-P
<bddebian> tritium: I have tried :-)
<TMM> bddebian, Ican't (yet) :)
<Kyral> So how long does it take for a package to be reviewed and holy crap its late
<Kyral> showertime!
<tritium> bddebian, well, it would actually be helpful to a guy like me struggling to get re-involved
<ajmitch> yes, what should I do bddebian sir?
<grayman> hmm
<grayman> libcal3d11 should be uploaded :/
<tritium> ajmitch should have a boss hat too
<grayman> libcal3d10 and libcal3d11 are not compatible
<grayman> and the debian one works alright
<bddebian> tritium: Fix gnome-launch-box for me since it's kicking my ass
<ajmitch> tritium: nah, I don't have the mad sk1llz of bddebian
<grayman> erm
<tritium> ajmitch, sure you do
<bddebian> tritium: ajmitch has THE boss hat :-)
<grayman> where i request packages to be synced from debian?
<ajmitch> grayman: libcal3d10 isn't in breezy?
<bddebian> grayman: elmo
<ajmitch> libcal3d10c2
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't tell him that
<tritium> bddebian, if it's difficult for you, I won't be able to do it
<ajmitch> bddebian: only MOTUs can ask for syncs
<grayman> ajmitch, yes... but no libcal3d11
<grayman> its important
<bddebian> tritium: Yeah right, you must be stoned :-)
<grayman> both version are not compatible
<ajmitch> grayman: is there a good reason for getting libcal3d11 in?
<ajmitch> what needs it?
<tritium> bddebian, never in my life
<grayman> ajmitch, personally i need it for EL i contribute to the project and need it to compile
<bipolar> bddebian, is there a way I can look at the build progress of ubuntu packages? I'm curious how it all works.
<bddebian> bipolar: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildlogs/
<ajmitch> grayman: there are a number of packages we'd have to rebuild as well
<bipolar> bddebian, 404
<bddebian> bipolar: buildLogs
<grayman> ajmitch, i guess
<grayman> im just suggesting
<grayman> the debian one works good
<ajmitch> Reverse Depends: underware sear python-soya poker3d libunderwarec2 libpoker3dc2 libosgcalc2 libcal3d10-dev
<bddebian> Eeks
<bddebian> Even I wouldn't touch that one ;-)
<ajmitch> we'd need to check each of those for API incompatibility
<grayman> yeah
<grayman> loads of work
<grayman> i can see that
<TMM> about this pbuilder thing, it looks useful btw :) but, also, after I do a build/install is my pbuild evironment 'contaminated'?
<ajmitch> not loads, but enough to do before release :)
<tritium> TMM, no
<bddebian> TMM: Only if you use --override-conf or something to that affect
<Amaranth> libosgcalc2 is a source package?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: those are binary packages
* Amaranth beats ubotu
<Amaranth> this dang bot is supposed to have it then
<TMM> good :)
<bipolar> bddebian, wow.... that build system is a complex beast isnt it...
<bddebian> bipolar: Aye
<TMM> does universe have a buildcluster too btw?
<TMM> I just wondered who/what build the packages for the different archs :)
<bddebian> TMM: There are buildd machines for each arch
<TMM> canonical sponsors it too?
<ajmitch> universe is built on the same systems as main
<TMM> cool :)
<Kyral> yo
<TMM> that pbuilder is pretty damn cool :)
<Kyral> Can someone lookover my Lintin and Linda data for the Fortune-Mod-Futurama package and tell me how to fix it when they have time?
<bddebian> Kyral: What's the error?
<Kyral> Its in REVU ;P
<Kyral> I'm kinda getting dressed ATM ;P
<bddebian> Well then how are you typing? :-)
<Kyral> In between putting stuff on
<ajmitch> Kyral: where'd you get the license info for it from?
<Kyral> I'm in my dorm room, not that hard ;P
<TMM> holy fuck batman, I'm going to be needing a bigger disk
<Kyral> ajmitch, I emailed the guy
<Kyral> He gave me the go ahead
<ajmitch> that's just marginally suspect :)
<Kyral> I can forward it to you
* ajmitch wonders whether we can distribute a collection of quotes from a copyright work as GPL :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> You want me to forward you the email?
<ajmitch> you've got far too much junk in debian/rules as well
<Kyral> Its just what dh_make spat out. This is like my second package
<ajmitch> and I'm giving feedback :)
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> debian/control has an awfully short description
<Kyral> Then how would I clean it up
<ajmitch> removing everything you don't need
<Kyral> ah
<ajmitch> you should be able to say what each tool you're using in debian/rules does :)
<Kyral> My main priorty is getting a clean slate from Lintin/Linda
<bddebian> Kyral: You will probably not ever get perfectly clean unless you add all the NMU crap
<ajmitch> yep
<Kyral> NMU?
<ajmitch> I'm just suggesting what we'd want before it is uploaded
<bddebian> Unless you are the maintainer
<Kyral> I don't think it needs to be maintained
<Kyral> if you go to the site, its pretty clear thats the final version
<bddebian> Kyral: NMU == Non-Maintainer upload
<Kyral> I mean I can be the de facto maintainer
* ajmitch leaves bddebian to help with reviewing
<bddebian> ??
<bddebian> D00d, I couldn't package my own package if I had too :-(
<ajmitch> utter rubbish
<Kyral> I don't mind being the maintainer for that package
* ajmitch has to do some other work right now
<Kyral> But I'm not an official member, so I can't be the package maintainer, right?
<ajmitch> sure you can
<Kyral> cool
<bddebian> Kyral: It just means that you are forever bound to keeping that package fixed and up to date ;-P
<Kyral> bddebian, if you saw that site, with the latest RPM dating to Red Hat 8, you'd see why I'm not worried :D
<bddebian> Damnit, why does every new package release in Debian require updates to all it's build-deps :'-(
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> bddebian: because we've gotten behind
<Kyral> So if you will, consider me its Maintainer ;P
<TMM> what does this mean?
<TMM> debian-files-list-in-source
<ajmitch> Kyral: great, now you have to have your package at the highest quality
<ajmitch> TMM: debian/files is in there. it shouldn't be
<Kyral> ajmitch, gimme a primer in the morning, I'm going to bed ;P
<ajmitch> you've probably done a native package, too
<TMM> a native package?
<TMM> there's a debian/ dir in the original source, yes, but it is totally bollocks, I had to remove it
<ajmitch> one without a correct orig.tar.gz
<TMM> it is 'correct' :)
<Kyral> But basically I have to strip out everything in debian/rules that doesn't need to be there, right?
<ajmitch> Kyral: that's the first step
<TMM> ajmitch, is that a big problem/
<TMM> ?
<Kyral> Well, I'm going to bed
<Kyral> goodnight :D
<bddebian> Gnight Kyral
<ajmitch> TMM: not a huge problem, just very annoying
<ajmitch> night
<TMM> I get 3 errors from lintian
<TMM> all 3 related to that
* ajmitch has to leave in a few minutes also
<TMM> bye ajmitch
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well this one just came in two days ago ;-)
<TMM> well, it builds in pbuild, the resulting packages work
<TMM> and I only get lintian errors on the source tarball
<TMM> I'd say that's a pretty decent score for a first package :)
<bddebian> TMM: Excellent.  Rip those files out and you should be golden ;-)
<TMM> somewhere else I read that you shouldn't alter the .orig.tar.gz
<TMM> and that a diff that removes it is ok...
<TMM> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=316
<TMM> there :)
<TMM> " chaning .orig from upstream tar is standard practice for removing debian directories etc.
<TMM> I dont see the rpath errors.
<TMM> advocating. "
<TMM> bddebian, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=716 I am *SO* proud :)
<ajmitch> wait until the reviewers rip into it ;)
<ajmitch> first thing - version number should be 1.4-0ubuntu1
<bddebian> Doh
<TMM> there is no debian counterpart...
<ajmitch> there might be
<ajmitch> debian/rules has plenty of stuff you can cull
<TMM> ok :)
<ajmitch> we use .desktop files, not menu
<Amaranth> *shudder*
<TMM> ajmitch, I put both in
<Amaranth> the debian menu system makes baby jebus cry
<TMM> ok, that should go too then?
<ajmitch> ah so you did, but you can use a dh_desktop in debian/rules then
<ajmitch> why do you have README.Debian there?
<TMM> ajmitch, how does that work then?
<Amaranth> ooh, i need to learn more about these helper scripts
<TMM> I removed readme.debian... I'm probably going crazy
<Amaranth> dh_desktop does what now?
<ajmitch> dvdstyler.doc-base.EX
<TMM> it's there....
<TMM> ajmitch, I removed that too...
<TMM> well, I don't have it HERE anyway
<TMM> and this is what I uploaded
<ajmitch> they're on REVU :)
<TMM> ?
<ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/dvdstyler-0510052225/dvdstyler-1.4/debian/
<ajmitch> I'm looking at files there
<TMM> ajmitch, is that the tarball
<TMM> ?
<ajmitch> that's what you uploaded, at least
<ajmitch> I haven't grabbed it myself to check
<TMM> weird....
<TMM> I'll just reupload in a sec
<ajmitch> and I'm heading out in about 30 secs
<TMM> one more thing :)
<ajmitch> will be back in a few minutes
<TMM> what should I remove from rules?
<bddebian> Later ajmitch I think I'm heading for bed
<TMM> all the comments and the like?
<ajmitch> bye bddebian
<ajmitch> TMM: and any unneeded dh_* calls
<ajmitch> bbiab
<TMM> how will I know what is unneeded?
<hubW> TMM: experience?
<hubW> :-)
<TMM> hubH, training to gain some now :)
<TMM> well, lets see if it'll still work now :)
<ColonelKernel> im trying to set my compiler options
<ColonelKernel> can anyone help me out? im using export CC="/usr/bin/gcc-3.4 -O3 -march=pentium4 -pipe -fno-merge-constants -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -mfpmath=sse,387 -mmmx -msse -msse2"
<ColonelKernel> if this is correct I'd REALLY like to know
<hubW> how does mime works for packages?
<TMM> shouldn't that be
<TMM> CCFLAGS="-bla" ?
<TMM> or C++FLAGS?
<TMM> instead of CC?
<ColonelKernel> TMM, I dont know
<TMM> I think that's it
<ColonelKernel>  im not sure at all how to set this stuff up in ubuntu
<TMM> I don't think you are supposed to set compiler flags in CC
<TMM> CXXFLAGS
<TMM> so
<TMM> you'll want to do
<ColonelKernel> export CCFLAGS="/usr/bin/gcc-3.4 -O3 -march=pentium4 -pipe -fno-merge-constants -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -mfpmath=sse,387 -mmmx -msse -msse2"
<ColonelKernel> ?
<TMM> CXXFLAGS="-march=pentium4 -pipe -fno-merge-constants -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -mfpmath=sse,387 -mmmx -msse -msse2"
<TMM> it's just the flags, not the compiler command
<ColonelKernel> -O3 too
<TMM> yeah
<TMM> if you want to set the c compiler you ALSO
<ColonelKernel> and how do I know if its working properly?
<TMM> export CXX="/usr/bin/gcc-3.4"
<TMM> you'll see it fly past
<ColonelKernel> CXX?
<ColonelKernel> meaning for me CC right or actually put in CXX?
<ColonelKernel> TMM, plz clue in a noob
<TMM> ColonelKernel, sorry
<TMM> ColonelKernel, I am wrong
* ColonelKernel bursts into tears
<TMM> ColonelKernel, you want CC and CFLAGS
<TMM> so
<TMM> export  CFLAGS="-march=pentium4 -pipe -fno-merge-constants -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -mfpmath=sse,387 -mmmx -msse -msse2"
<TMM> export CC="/usr/bin/gcc-3.4"
<ColonelKernel> NICE
<ColonelKernel> thank you
<TMM> then run ./confgure
<TMM> ColonelKernel, np
<TMM> ajmitch, so, I've updated the version... and removed cruft
<ColonelKernel> and how can I tell if its using those cflags?
<TMM> you'll see all your stuff fly past if you make
<TMM> but, damn dude, are you running gentoo or something? :) why all the cflags?
<ColonelKernel> its making but I dont see anything about those cflags in there
<TMM> did you ./confugure again?
<ColonelKernel> I just want optimizations on kernel build and a couple of apps
<TMM> don't set custion cflags on kernel
<TMM> you might break it
<ColonelKernel> doh
<TMM> I don't it'll pick it up anyway
<ColonelKernel> alright
* ColonelKernel hangs himself
<ColonelKernel> j/k
<crimsun> you need to be very careful doing that with the Ubuntu-patched source
<crimsun> scary things will happen
<TMM> scary things will happen regardless of patches when using custom cflags while building the kernel
<TMM> but, it won't pick it up anyway, you'll have to edit the makefile I think
<TMM> it resets it afaik
<TMM> or, it used to anyway
<ColonelKernel> excrement.
<crimsun> edit HOSTCC and CC
<ColonelKernel> nice
<ColonelKernel> im not turning on anything that isnt in my kernel
<crimsun> but yeah, environment variables are parsed, too
<ColonelKernel> and i dont use things like ffast-math
<hubW> another package uploaded
<hubW> if that ever goes to main, we beat MacOS X to the curb
<hubW> RAW thumbnailing
<hubW> well, I need to update it first
<TMM> hubH, RAW thumbnailing?
<TMM> hubH, is there a dh_ command to compress the changelog?
* ajmitch returns
<hubW> TMM: don't know. should be handled by the documentation
<hubW> TMM: yeah. RAW thumbnail. for Camera RAW files
<ajmitch> TMM: like dh_compress? :)
<ColonelKernel> I have HOSTCFLAGS and HOSTCXXFLAGS = which one do I punch my options in for - im not trying to mess with g++ I dont think
<hubW> MSFT did some fuss about the new 150MB RAW kit for XP
<ColonelKernel> I dont know anythign about g++
<Amaranth> hubW: I'm seeing double. ;)
<ajmitch> ColonelKernel: so why are you mucking about with CFLAGS?
<hubW> Amaranth: ?
<Amaranth> hubH hubW :D
<hubW> Amaranth: my clone at work
<ColonelKernel> ajmitch, are the optimizations the same?
<hub> :-)
<TMM> dh_installdocs?
<ColonelKernel> im used to setting this up with gentoo
<TMM> I removed it, as 'cruft' :)
<ajmitch> yes, I thought you must come from gentoo
<Amaranth> haha
<ajmitch> TMM: why, surely if you had it in debian/rules you knew what it did, right? ;)
<Amaranth> well, bed time
<ColonelKernel> ajmitch, I have to say - if you guys are the ubuntu developers - you guys have really put together one hell of a distro - its fantastic
<hub> Amaranth: should do the same
<Amaranth> i have class tomorrow so i'll be on a lot
<TMM> ajmitch, dh_make...
<hub> I have a meeting at 11:00 AM
<hub> :-/
<ajmitch> TMM: dh_make is a start, but you really need to learn what the dh_* tools do :)
<crimsun> crap, meeting in 7h 25m
<TMM> [06:21]  TMM but, damn dude, are you running gentoo or something? :) why all the cflags?
<Amaranth> hub: I always do Amaranth as at home then Am|Whatever if I'm online somewhere else. At least that's what I did when I had DSL.
<TMM> :P
<Amaranth> ack, i'm talking more instead of sleeping!
<TMM> ajmitch, meh... :)
<TMM> ajmitch, I thought this was going to be somewhat easy :)
<ajmitch> it is easy!\
<ajmitch> I'm just pedantic
<TMM> :P
<ajmitch> if you wanted easy, you could have used cdbs :)
<TMM> I found out about that about 10 minutes ago :)
<TMM> I don't want to redo this package though
<TMM> :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> think of this as valuable learning experience
<TMM> I am
<TMM> otherwise I would have 'migrated' to cdbs already :)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> I think I'm using cdbs on all my packages now
<hub> I do too
<hub> :-)
<hub> unless I just update a Debian
<hub> is malone the best place to request a Debian sync for a package that have been updated?
<ajmitch> yeah, for 'my packages', I mean ones I maintain in debian
<ajmitch> malone might be ok
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/menu
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/files
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/dvdstyler-default.ex
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/README.Debian
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/dvdstyler.doc-base.EX
<ajmitch> but you'd just be asking one of us to ask elmo
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file debian/dvdstyler.substvars
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file INSTALL
<TMM> dpkg-source: warning: ignoring deletion of file COPYING
<TMM> whoops
<ajmitch> please, don't flood
<TMM> sorry for the big paste
<TMM> I only wanted to paste one line
<TMM> I said 'whoops' :)
<TMM> what I wanted to ask was, is this perhaps the reason that those files are still on revu?
<ajmitch> most likely
<TMM> so.... what do I do about that? :)
<ajmitch> you are allowed to repack orig.tar.gz in special cases
<ajmitch> this *may* be one of them
<ajmitch> where upstream is a bit braindamaged :)
<TMM> well... their debian/ dir is pretty braindead
<ajmitch> yep
<TMM> only ran dh_make and didn't change much
<TMM> no deps, or builddeps
<ajmitch> when upstream did that to me, I asked them politely to remove it :)
<TMM> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
<TMM> is that a problem/
<TMM> ?
<ajmitch> depends if you're using it or not
<ajmitch> judging by that, you're not
<TMM> lol
<ajmitch> some dh_* calls would put a line with misc:Depends into dvdstyler.susbtvars when building
<ajmitch> and dpkg-gencontrol would look at that & replace the misc:Depends in debian/control with the lines in dvdstyler.susbtvars
<TMM> ow, I gues I do use that
<TMM> I think I pruned my debian/rules file a *tad* too much
<ajmitch> hehe
<TMM> perhaps... I should try cdbs
<TMM> I am never going to be able to fix this :)
<ColonelKernel> nice - flags are working - thanks guys
<ajmitch> TMM: it's fixable
<TMM> ajmitch, not anymore it isn't :)
<ajmitch> sure it is
<TMM> I'm trying to 'migrate' to cdbs now
<TMM> it's still ignoring the deleted files though...
<ajmitch> and I said you could possibly repack it
<ajmitch> sa long as you document that
<TMM> in the changelog file?
<TMM> debian/changelog?
<ajmitch> in README.Debian
<ajmitch> and probably debian/changelog
<TMM> ok
<TMM> I'll try it like this first, see if things go right now\
<Sepheebear> im trying to build a cups-pdf package but I cant seem to get past this lintian error
<Sepheebear> whiprush: cups-pdf source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 2.0beta1-1
<hub> I get that one on REVU too
<ajmitch> the version number would be wrong, but the warning can be ignored
<ajmitch> it's just saying that the last person who changed it (from debian/changelog) is different from the maintainer (in debian/control)
<Sepheebear> also, anybody know a good cdbs howto?
<TMM> ajmitch, is a manpage mandatory?
<hub> https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
<ajmitch> TMM: at least strongly suggested :)
<hub> Sepheebear: https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
<Sepheebear> hub:  perfect thanks!
<ajmitch> that & other resources are on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips
<TMM> ajmitch, it has no command line options, or anything, AND I don't even know how to MAKE a manpage :)
<Sepheebear> ajmitch:  wha?? why didnt I see that i been trawling the wiki like mad. thx
<TMM> ajmitch, I'm actually getting somewhere now :)
<ajmitch> great :)
<TMM> screw dh
* ajmitch is going to step away from his computer for a bit
<TMM> cdbs rocks ;)
<TMM> ajmitch, still there? :)
<TMM> anyone have anye idea why my debian/test file and my debian/<appname> build files don't get removed after I do dpkg-buildpackage?
<TMM> it's screwing up my package :)
<lifeless> anyone here interested in pornview ?
<jsgotangco> errr?
<lifeless> its an image viewer
<zyga> lol
<lifeless> very good for looking at large collections.
<lifeless> ... of images
<zyga> open source program naming scheme
<zyga> LOL
<jsgotangco> sure but i don't think companies wouldn't want something named as such in their workstations even if its just an image viewer heh
<lifeless> anyway, its segfaulting for me
<lifeless> and I want to look at a large collection
<lifeless> :)
<jsgotangco> ...of images
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> aptitude install pornview; pornview; boom
<jsgotangco> grabbing porn...
<lifeless> #0  0xb79deea4 in pthread_mutex_lock () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread.so.0
<lifeless> #1  0xb7805c4c in XUnlockDisplay () from /usr/lib/libX11.so.6
<lifeless> #2  0xb7823141 in XrmQGetResource () from /usr/lib/libX11.so.6
<lifeless> #3  0xb77fd42a in XGetDefault () from /usr/lib/libX11.so.6
<lifeless> q
<lifeless> #4  0xb77aadfc in cairo_xlib_surface_set_drawable () from /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2
<lifeless> #5  0xb77ab07f in cairo_xlib_surface_set_drawable () from /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2
<lifeless> #6  0xb77a9014 in cairo_test_xlib_disable_render () from /usr/lib/libcairo.so.2
<jsgotangco> xine_thread: init threads
<jsgotangco> xine_thread: open display
<jsgotangco> gtkxine: auto-detecting video driver...
<jsgotangco> Segmentation fault
<jsgotangco> there goes my porn..
<lifeless> see
<lifeless> no porn viewing for you
<crimsun> recompile against the new cairo
<crimsun> the last time it was compiled was early july; the cairo transition/mass-rebuild was august
<dholbach> good morning
<janimo> morning daniel
<dholbach> hey jani
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> could somebody have a look at the  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReportDraft  please
<dholbach> i will send it off in some minutes
<dholbach> so please make sure i didnt show you in the wrong light or forgot something
<dholbach> thanks :)
<zyga> morning
<jsgotangco> \sh, *huff* *puff*
<\sh> jsgotangco: hufflepuff? dumbledore?
<jsgotangco> \sh, nice blog entry =)
<\sh> jsgotangco: I was surprised by whiprush now...I just read his post
<jsgotangco> you're my new blog hero
<Treenaks> \sh: uh.. dholbach was reading Harry Potter in all languages right, not you? :)
<dholbach> :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: btw, I have the Dutch version at home :)
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> did anybody read the motu report?
<dholbach> i'll send it off now *grmbl*
<zyga> dholbach: I did
<janimo> dholbach, looks ok to me
<jsgotangco> checking...
<dholbach> i can't always remember everything
<dholbach> sistpoty and ajmitch already were so kind to help out
* ajmitch didn't help
<dholbach> man, you did!
<jsgotangco> you're too modest
<ajmitch> ok, I didn't help much
<ajmitch> I wrote in a couple of lines :P
<\sh> Treenaks: well...I'd read all the books in english :) because I like Hagrid ;)
<dholbach> in french he's not half as funny
<\sh> jsgotangco: why should I be a bloghero?
* ajmitch wonders if he should have a public blog on planet ubuntu
<\sh> ajmitch: YES!
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes :)
<ajmitch> \sh: because your 6 month summary rocked
<Treenaks> ajmitch: yes, you shuold
<Treenaks> should, too
<ajmitch> I don't have much to blog about
<\sh> ajmitch: it's full of mistakes ;)
<lifeless> jsgotangco: so can you trigger a rebuild of pornview ?
<Treenaks> ajmitch: neither do I
<ajmitch> \sh: meh, so is any quality reporting :)
<dholbach> sent it
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> sent it to devel, users, news?
<ajmitch> and sounder?
<dholbach> and fridge-devel
<dholbach> not sounder
<ajmitch> rock
<Treenaks> hey, the bugzilla.ubuntu.com cert has expired?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> argh
<ajmitch> it's so quiet here
<ajmitch> I need music!
<ajmitch> man, my niece is only a couple of months old & she's on media websites ;)
<Treenaks> ajmitch: ?
<ajmitch> Treenaks: http://taupo.morefm.co.nz/ at bottom
<dholbach> who will look at debian-security-announce and request syncs before the release?
<Treenaks> ajmitch: cool
* ajmitch subscribes
<ajmitch> dholbach: I can watch it, I can't guarantee I'll catch everything for syncs though
<dholbach> ajmitch: there are quite a lot of old ones on the list
<dholbach> ajmitch: shall we sit and brood over that list together at some time?
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I wasn't planning on any sleep in the next few days :P
<dholbach> me neither :)
<dholbach> ROCK
<ajmitch> so.. many.. security holes
<dholbach> everbody: ^ that's the attitude :)
<crimsun> I'll join you as long as I can sleep for at least 4 hours right now.
<dholbach> crimsun: sleep tight :)
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/util-vserver/+bug/2815 <- should we compile it with gcc-3.4 because of the kernel patches?
<crimsun> k
<janimo> hey crimsun
<ajmitch> \sh: yes
<crimsun> janimo: hi, bbl
<\sh> k...will do :)
* ajmitch first has to knock off the bugs that are pendingupload or accepted by ajmitch 
<ajmitch> I expect everyone to have fixed 100 bugs on malone by release day, ok?
<\sh> hehe
<ajmitch> now I know that some of us have a small headstart, but that shouldn't stop you ;)
<ajmitch> yay, my karma went down today
<TMM> does that online lintian at revu ever refresh its results?
<dholbach> *cry* where do i change the "source package" in malone these days?
<ajmitch> dholbach: hmm, which bug?
<dholbach> 2744
<ajmitch> gnome-system-tools
* ajmitch couldn't reproduce that one
<ajmitch> ugh
<ajmitch> malone so wide..
<dholbach> it's gnome-utils
<ajmitch> doesn't even fit on 1280x1024
<dholbach>  not g-s-t
<ajmitch> right
* ajmitch waits for lp to login...
<ajmitch> that was an easy change?
<ajmitch> just clicked on it, 'gnome-system-tools' was in a text entry area?
<ajmitch> reassigned for you anyway
<dholbach> i couldn't change it
<ajmitch> very strange
<ajmitch> I wouldn't have any more launchpad permissions than you
<ajmitch> yay for tomboy
<jsgotangco> err we have plone and zope?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: well yeah
<ajmitch> why wouldn't we? :)
* jsgotangco is catching up on the release notes
<ajmitch> kobold did plone & zope packaging as his google SoC project
<jsgotangco> ugghh i'd love a cig now
<ajmitch> didn't think you smoked :)
<jsgotangco> its a filthy habit that i can't seem to seprate myself with
<jsgotangco> i just keep it to myself really
<jsgotangco> that's our little secret =)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: we have a problem
<dholbach> hm?
<ajmitch> num of bugs with qa contact of desktop team are going up on bugzilla
<dholbach> absolutely
<ajmitch> we must fix this
<dholbach> :)))
<ajmitch> malone has 487 of 1112 bugs open
<ajmitch> fairly impressive
<\sh> hmmm...does anyone know why linphone-common will not be build for amd64?
<ajmitch> \sh: ask Mithrandir for access to his amd64 to test build?
<\sh> ajmitch: I see why it's not build for amd64
<\sh> only this package doesn't have a amd64 build-arch ;)
<ajmitch> you asked why :)
<\sh> or binary arch ;)
<ajmitch> right..
<ajmitch> debian doesn't have an official amd64, so probably due to that
<\sh> yeah...I'll check it on ravel
<\sh> Mithrandir: can u apt-get build-dep linphone on ravel breezy chroot? thx :)
<\sh> ajmitch: no every other package had amd64 in it ;)
<\sh> coffee...
* ajmitch starts a rebuild to close another malone bug
<Mithrandir> \sh: running
<Mithrandir> \sh: .. and done
<ajmitch> nice & quick
<Mithrandir> ravel's a nice box
<ajmitch> yay for manual 3-way merging
<\sh> Mithrandir: thx
<\sh> when those amd64 boxes will be cheaper, I would buy one..
<Mithrandir> cheaper?  They're about the cheapest you can get.
<\sh> Mithrandir: well...for me everything is expensive...I have to deal with ex-wife and son :) so money is a expensive resource ,-)
<Lathiat> anyone on amd64?
<Mithrandir> Lathiat: yes
<Lathiat> can yo9u tell me if linphone-common is installable now?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: that's what they've been working on :)
<\sh> Lathiat: I'm working on it
<Mithrandir> Lathiat: it's not
<Lathiat> \sh: oh ok
<Lathiat> i was just perusing through the bug list
<Lathiat> tho
<Lathiat> the build shwos as succesfull
<Lathiat> so why isnt it there?
<\sh> Lathiat: because linphone-common didn't have a "amd64" arch attached for this binary package
<\sh> I changed it now...lets see
<Lathiat> \sh: ah
<Lathiat> tseng: whats the deal with mjyththemes
<ajmitch> it probably just needs done
<\sh> something for our german motus in here :) http://www.110-support.de/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=4&id=44&artlang=de :)
<\sh> it's an answer to "ubuntu/kubuntu" social problems in the last days of the german ubuntu community :)
<ajmitch> \sh: give us a translation!
<\sh> well...in short
<\sh> the point of a working social system in anarchic or natural communities is, that electricity is not existing
<\sh> Because in our society (1st world countries) we try to solve any social problems with technique.
<\sh> So, what we can learn from communities like the Zulu community?
<\sh> Take the time for yourself, to listen to yourself, to better experience your environment. this, so the author, is called "positiv offline".
<Treenaks> offline!??
<Treenaks> you can't be offline
<ajmitch> haha
<\sh> If the twadriness of your personal thoughts is dimmed, then the differences between blue and brown is not important anymore
<\sh> eventually you should try the "powerless thinking" in the darkness. The alternative can be, to wake up in the morning without electric lights, means let the day become lighter the natural way.
<\sh> gnarf..it's too philosophical to translate it for me...
<\sh> trying to get the author to translate it
<\sh> does anybody has a mp4 file?
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/gst-ffmpeg/+bug/2776
<\sh> ah i have :)
<Lathiat> dholbach: still needing approval for ubuntu-bugs
<dholbach> Lathiat: if you tell me how to fix mailman, i will gladly do
<\sh> hmm...totem doesn't work for me
<\sh> ** Message: don't know how to handle video/mpeg, mpegversion=(int)4, systemstream=(boolean)false, codec_data=(buffer)000001b001000001b58913000001000000012000c4f9616d8800cd0f042c1443000001b246466d706567302e342e392d707265316234373336, width=(int)480, height=(int)352, framerate=(double)25
<\sh> ** Message: don't know how to handle video/mpeg, mpegversion=(int)4, systemstream=(boolean)false, codec_data=(buffer)000001b001000001b58913000001000000012000c4f9616d8800cd0f042c1443000001b246466d706567302e342e392d707265316234373336, width=(int)480, height=(int)352, framerate=(double)25
<\sh> mplayer works, xine works
* ajmitch attacks malone 420
<\sh> can someone confirm https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/gst-ffmpeg/+bug/2776 ?
<ajmitch> I'll see if I have any .mp4 files still
<ajmitch> :3:> gst-launch filesrc location=/mnt/new-home/ajmitch/tmp/ghost_car_ad.mp4 ! spider ! autovideosink
<ajmitch> RUNNING pipeline ...
<ajmitch> Execution ended after 2657 iterations (sum 217195000 ns, average 81744 ns, min 17000 ns, max 88190000 ns).
<Treenaks> ajmitch: did it also show stuff?
<ajmitch> not at all
<Treenaks> instead of just giving you statistics
<ajmitch> I've got totem-xine installed
<ajmitch> so I can't check with that
<ajmitch> but gst-launch didn't show anything
<ajmitch> hmm, now I have to actually test openbox somehow ;)
<\sh> ** Message: don't know how to handle video/mpeg, mpegversion=(int)4, systemstream=(boolean)false, codec_data=(buffer)000001b001000001b58913000001000000012000c4f9616d8800cd0f042c1443000001b246466d706567302e342e392d707265316234373336, width=(int)480, height=(int)352, framerate=(double)25
<\sh> ** Message: Couldn't initialize lirc.
<Lathiat> if i've sent a bug upstream
<\sh> this is what totem gives me...
<Lathiat> what do i do to the bug
<\sh> totem-gstreamer
<Lathiat> is there some way to mark it as such?
* Lathiat can't see one
<ajmitch> Lathiat: on right hand side
<ajmitch> 'Link to other bugtracker;
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yeh theres no link to the berlios.de bugtracker
<Lathiat> which i just filed a bug about
<ajmitch> so add o ne
<Lathiat> i mena, y ou cant link to it
<Lathiat> and i cant type
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugtrackers
<ajmitch> neither can I
<ajmitch> register bugtracker there
* ajmitch found that hidden gem in #launchpad earlier today
<Lathiat> well, theres no bugtracke rtype for sf.net bugtrackers yet
<ajmitch> so add it!
<Lathiat> i mean
<Lathiat> you can register one
<Lathiat> but you cant give it ythe right type
<Lathiat> because no ones written a sf.net importer
<ajmitch> so complain ;)
<Lathiat> i did
<ajmitch> easiest way to get things done
* ajmitch will brb, has to attempt to test openbox
<Lathiat> bug 2886
<ajmitch> gdm rocks, really
<ajmitch> and I confirmed that 420 is fixed (yay for xinerama)
<ajmitch> hi herzi
<herzi> hi
<ajmitch> hello spacey
<spacey> hey ajmitch
<tseng> Lathiat: i uploaded it and elmo said no
<tseng> Lathiat: he said to sync it, but i guess he didnt take that step on his own
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> he said he could sync from anywhere that's public
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> oh good, phpmyadmin built fine
<tseng> good
<tseng> i was getting rammy at work over it
<ajmitch> since it was a security fix release
<slomo_> hi all
<tseng> is mdz doing rc?
<tseng> hi slomo
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I don't think he's slept for a day or two
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ajmitch> 6 months have gone by so fast
<jsgotangco> heh true
<jsgotangco> 6 months or irc lurking as well
<ajmitch> oh I do that so well
<ajmitch> as you can tell my bu #ubuntu-doc presence ;)
<ajmitch> or non-presence at the moment
* ajmitch starts the RC fetch
<ajmitch> yay, 180K/sec
<tseng> is the torrent up
<tseng> i like to use that
<tseng> http://releases.ubuntu.com/5.10/
<tseng> ^ is this it
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> no torrent yet
<ajmitch> BT is usually far slower for me
<tseng> yes, but it doesnt leave everyone beating on the same pipes
<ajmitch> yeah
<tseng> which i imagine is the same reason we feel a moral obligation to use shitty software like apt-proxy
* ajmitch *hates*
<tseng> :P
<tseng> i should figure out how to net install this sparc box in the living room
<tseng> 1ghz iirc
<ajmitch> yeah, I'm going to do a new install on the laptop
* tseng too
<tseng> after work
<ajmitch> and then convert it to an selinux frankenstein after release
<tseng> hm elite
<Lathiat> tseng: ok, will you take care of that?
<tseng> Lathiat: i tried, my mail server disagreed
<tseng> port 25 filtered this week or something
<Lathiat> heh
<tseng> can you please mail him
<tseng> with a url to mdz's hoary sources
<tseng> ask for myththemes sync
<Lathiat> tseng: can you give me the url?
<Lathiat> tseng: and why isnt it a sync from debian?
<tseng> because its not in debian?
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> wheres it come from?
<tseng> http://dijkstra.csh.rit.edu/~mdz/debian/dists/hoary/mythtv/source/
<Lathiat> what about mythplugins and mjythtv from there
<ajmitch> done already
<ajmitch> night all
<pef> hello
<slomo> hi pef
<Kyral> G'Morning
<Amaranth> morning
<Kyral> After reading dholbach's MOTU report part of me thinks we should form a MOTU-In-Training Team or something like that ;P
<dholbach> Kyral: with some mentors for that team?
<Kyral> Yah!
<dholbach> we should think about that
<dholbach> we had the topic already 2-3 times
<dholbach> and i hope from the new release on, we'll be big enough to face such a challenge and maybe do it some other way
<Kyral> Its like what the COSI is doing. Older experianced members taking the new kids under their wings
<dholbach> we need to figure out the problems accurately to make a good solution
<dholbach> i mean, our "training" is not really broken
<Kyral> lol
<dholbach> but if we can improve it, we must identify if there's something wrong
<Kyral> Yah good point
<dholbach> we should have a wiki page which collects ideas on this
<dholbach> so we can make it RIGHT
<Nafallo> dholbach: just go for the BOF-spec ;-)
<Kyral> Damn I won't be able to attend BOFs at UBZ
<Kyral> I only have enough time for Ubuntu Love
<Amaranth> whats a good place to look to figure out what all these dh_* helper scripts do?
<Kyral> man ;P
<dholbach> Amaranth: man dh_bla
<dholbach> the manpages are really good
<Amaranth> dholbach: any websites?
<dholbach> Amaranth: the links on PackagingTips maybe?
<Amaranth> ooh, the wiki finally has useful info ;)
<dholbach> Amaranth: how can i reproduce or see if the fix works (wrt #15636)
<dholbach> Amaranth: without the fix smeg works for me
<Amaranth> dholbach: after you've messed with stuff in smeg, open up ~/.config/menus/applications.menu, add <MergeFile>/foo/bar.menu</MergeFile> right after the existing <MergeFile> tag
<Amaranth> then run smeg without the patch and run it again with the patch
<dholbach> Amaranth: hrm
<dholbach> Amaranth: that works without the patch :/
<dholbach> maybe i didnt mess enough with smeg
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> odd, it should fail due to a missing file
<dholbach> should the 2nd MergeFile be nested in the 1st?
<Amaranth> no
<dholbach> ok, that's what i thought
<dholbach> just wanted to be sure
<Amaranth> pyxdg tries to load "/foo/bar.menu" in a try/except, catchs the IOError exception, and throws it's own ParsingError("File not found") exception
<dholbach> gets silently irgnored
<dholbach> nothing in the console at all
<Amaranth> it shouldn't without the patch... :/
<Amaranth> ok, try tossing that <MergeFile> line in /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu
<dholbach> still works
<Amaranth> o_O
<Amaranth> did seb128 already upload a fixed pyxdg?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> the patch cleanly applied
<dholbach> and from what i saw there should at least be a warning, shouldnt it?
<Amaranth> hrm
<Amaranth> it should die completely, i don't start the gtk mainloop until after i've loaded the menu file so the exception stops execution
<Amaranth> unless i changed that...
<Amaranth> but it will still throw the exception, the app just wouldn't die
<dholbach> i moved the applications.menu file away
<dholbach> didnt matter
<Amaranth> wow
<Amaranth> the <MergeFile> line you added doesn't have type="parent", does it?
<dholbach> i tried both
<Amaranth> hrm
<Amaranth> well, i have to get to class, i might be able to talk more once i start working on assignments
<wickedpuppy> hi guys ... i got problem importing gpg key into the launchpad ... any help ?
<dholbach> #launchpad :)
<dholbach> these guys are experts :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gervystar> is there any svg related bug? I could not find any on bugzilla
<Gervystar> if I use the postmodern.svg theme in mahjong i see some broken graphics
<dholbach> Gervystar: yes, there are, just search for svg
<dholbach> and there are quite a lot of duplicates too
<Gervystar> dholbach: oh just seen them. Something analogue to mine has already been reported upstream
<dholbach> yes, i should think so
<Gervystar> looks like it has also been fixed upstream, so I think it's just a matter of time for a new package to come in. Nice :)
<tseng> \sh: ping
<tseng> or bddebian
<bddebian> Yo
<tseng> if anyone could help me fix libapache2-mod-auth-kerb
<tseng> it would be a major help
<tseng> its ftbfs looking like gcc4 hate
<bddebian> What's wrong with it?
<bddebian> Ahh
<bddebian> Give me a bit and I'll "try"
<tseng> In file included from spnegokrb5/asn1_MechType.c:9:
<tseng> spnegokrb5/spnego_asn1.h:102: error: array type has incomplete element type
<tseng> something like this
<tseng> thanks dude
<dredg> i would but don't have the time. diamond understands kerberos real well though, so i've asked him
<tseng> its not a kerberos problem, its a C problem :)
<dredg> yeah, he knows C too
<\sh> tseng: pong
<dredg> damn his eyes
<tseng> elite
<tseng> \sh: bddebian will take the case
<tseng> :)
<bddebian> Heh, you'd probably be better off with \sh ;-)
<tseng> you are more presistant
<\sh> well..anybody should explain to me, why linphone-common is not hitting the archives for amd64
<bddebian> \sh: Did it build OK this time?
<\sh> bddebian: yes
<Nafallo> \sh: p-a-s?
<slomo> \sh: pas? dep-wait? or is it already built for amd64?
<\sh> bddebian: I added amd64 for the arch of linphone-common...but i don't see it in the archive
<\sh> lets check
<bddebian> \sh: It says installed.  Is it NEW for amd64?
<\sh> universe/sound/linphone_1.0.1-6ubuntu7: Installed by buildd+yellow [optional:out-of-date] 
<bddebian> Yep :)
<\sh> bddebian: what kamion told me, it's not arch dependent
<\sh> so it should be installed
<bddebian> Hmm
<\sh> it build successfully on amd64 btw...and the package as well there
<\sh> well...I will  take care about this problem..after I bought the present for my son
<slomo> hrm, still no eclipse for amd64 :(
<\sh> ok...later guys
<bddebian> Later \sh
<wickedpuppy> hi guys got a question ... suppose i would like to port a program from another distro to ubuntu .. how would  i go about doing that ?
<wickedpuppy> any help ?
<bddebian> wickedpuppy: What Distro?  RPMs you can convert with alien.  Or you can always just grab upstream and package :-)
<wickedpuppy> oh i am thinking of getting gentoo genkernel to ubuntu
<tseng> oh wow
<wickedpuppy> i worked with it before .. its just scripts so i thought i start with something easy
<bddebian> tseng: Uploading my pbuilder now to try mod-auth-kerb :-)
<tseng> bddebian: yay
<bddebian> tseng: But you are putting far too much faith in me ;-)
<tseng> dude i need it
<tseng> and i dont speak GCC4
<bipolar> you know you're a geek when you disassemle a busted nextel phone and save the LCD screen in the hopes it can be used for a display on some unknown future project.
<Nafallo> :-)
<tseng> bddebian: i have faith
<bddebian> bipolar: Yes you are a geek ;-)
<bddebian> bipolar: BTW, Kamion put through the libchipcard2* and libofx* stuff
<bipolar> bddebian, cool! so the new gnucash is on its way now?
<bddebian> bipolar: SHould be
<Amaranth> dholbach: figure anything out?
<fredix> hi
<blueyed> hi. dholbach told me I should sync "scponly" myself from Debian for breezy. There are security fixes, so this is o.k. - but I don't know where to start. Could someone point me at the most appropriate site in the wiki?
<blueyed> Should I use pbuilder?
<Amaranth> dholbach: all i know is this is the fix the author made and it fixed the problem for the user having it
<fredix> i have a big bug with ruby-gnome2 into breezy
<fredix> breezy should upgrade RG2 to 0.13
<fredix> is it possible ?
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hi bddebian ! =)
<slomo> fredix: what bug?
<tseng> bddebian: any luck?
<bddebian> tseng: Just got the source sorry.  I'm trying to get the gnucash deps in too..
<Lathiat> bddebian: your a powerhouse
<bddebian> Yeah right :-(
<bddebian> :-)
<lucas> hi
<bddebian> Hello lucas
<lucas> let's say something is horribly broken in breezy currently. I understand breezy will release with it. but what are the post-release options ?
<bddebian> tseng: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=300810 fixes it for me
<fredix> slomo, http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1312439&group_id=53614&atid=470969
<tseng> bddebian: woo
<slomo> fredix: i'll look at it
<bddebian> bipolar: The deps are in now so gnucash should show up soon
<dholbach> Amaranth: what about you? still crashes without it?
<dholbach> blueyed: i didnt tell you to sync, but to investigate, if it was alright/built in breezy/works in breezy/doesnt break other stuff
<markuman> ive got a question to the selflinux package. there is in the debian folder a file called selflinux.installer for extracting folders "bilder/* usr/share/doc/selflinux/html/bilder/" but there is nothing in the rules file. how does it work???
<Amaranth> dholbach: i never tried it, i didn't have access to an ubuntu machine when i made the patch
<dholbach> Amaranth: i see :(
<Amaranth> dholbach: pyxdg author says "this fixes it", i make a diff and look it over, then send it
<dholbach> i see
<ivoks> hi
<Amaranth> i'd say to apply just because it can only help
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<tseng> bddebian: i think this might work :(
<tseng> bddebian: :)
<fredix> slomo, thanks !
<bddebian> tseng: Awesome
<slomo> fredix: should be doable ;)
<bddebian> bipolar: Still around?
<tseng> bddebian: would you sign and upload this for me?
<tseng> bddebian: i dont keep my key at work
<bddebian> tseng: Sure
<Lathiat> We have received a message from your address `lathiat@ubuntu.com' requesting an automated response from the Universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list.  We have seen 10 such messages from you today.  In order to avoid problems such as mail loops between email robots, we will not be sending you any further email responses today.  Please try again tomorrow.
<Lathiat> is that because the universe bugs stuff is being moderated atm?
<dholbach> Lathiat: it always was moderated
<Lathiat> dholbach: i mean, beacuse its not allowing the bug messages through
<bddebian> Lathiat: Yes
<dholbach> but then the mail type switched, and now i can't look at the "From:" line, now it's the "Reply-To:" line
<Lathiat> right
<bddebian> bipolar: Wake up man.. :)
<fredix> slomo, to upgrade RG2 into breezy ?
<slomo> fredix: yes
<dholbach> i'm no pro at mailman configuration, so if somebody can help with that...
<fredix> slomo, my friend ! :P
<Lathiat> who is it that gives out access to an amd64 machine?
<Lathiat> or can someone try build oprofile on amd64 for me
<dholbach> Lathiat: i'll try
<Whistler> hello
<Lathiat> its listed as ANAIS in packages-arch-specific but i see signs it works fine on amd64
<Lathiat> and it compiles on ia64
<Lathiat> i figure it sjust left out because amd64 wasn't really supported much on debian until recently
<dholbach> Lathiat: amd64 is listed in the control file
<dholbach> Lathiat: i'd ask elmo, if it's in the amd64-blacklist
<dholbach> or however that file is called
<Lathiat> dholbach: its in packages-arch-specific
<Lathiat> dholbach: with a list, that doesn't have amd64
<Lathiat> dholbach: i was going to get it added, but i want to see if it builds first
<Lathiat> (i figure its not there because its imported from debian and amd64 stuff is new to debian main)
<Whistler> any guide of how to make ubuntu packages?
<tseng> bddebian: http://tseng.ath.cx/libapache/
<dholbach> Lathiat: thanks for that
<tseng> bddebian: THANKS
<tseng> bddebian: (hugs)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> Lathiat: builds nicely
<dholbach> Lathiat: go ahead! :)
<Lathiat> dholbach: okie
<dholbach> judging from http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html we have some packages to fix
<bddebian> dholbach: Wow, tseng is talking to me, I MUST be moving up in the world. ;-)
<dholbach> :-D
<bddebian> dholbach: :-(
<dholbach> bddebian: you're the king... you begin to realize :)
<bddebian> Oh no, not king
<ivoks> :)
<slomo> dholbach: you mean the mass give-back? many of them were ftbfs because the chroots were broken by haskell-cabal...
<dholbach> oh nice :)
<bddebian> slomo: Well fix it.. ;-P
<Whistler> any guide of how to make ubuntu packages?
<slomo> dholbach: i made it uninstallable yesterday... must be removed anyway... but can you please request another rebuild of everything?
<bddebian> Whistler: The Debian New Maintainers Guide is a good starting point
<dholbach> rebuild of everything?
<dholbach> test-rebuild?
<dholbach> i could cry - the archive just got test-rebuilt - the old lists are gone :(
<slomo> dholbach: or whatever that was yesterday... looked like everything that failed before was retried
<dholbach> slomo: a lot of stuff i uploaded just worked
<dholbach> slomo: what has to be given-back will be given-back
<slomo> ok
<bddebian> tseng: Just amd64 changes?
<tseng> bddebian: i did an -S, im not sure where it went
<tseng> sorry
<tseng>  i think you can just do an -S on top of me
<tseng> and it will fix that
<bddebian> OK, np
<tseng> if its not too much trouble
<tseng> thank you
<tseng> at work my application is now using krb5, ldap, and htpasswd for auth :(
<tseng> in different places
<bddebian> tseng: Uploaded
<Lathiat> you know what motu needs
<Lathiat> the ability to assign a bug to both a person and a team
<Lathiat> so MOTU bugs can be assigned to me, but as part of the motu team
<bddebian> Lathiat: Aye
<Lathiat> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/2903
<slomo> fredix: can you please notify me if this fixes your problem? i'll upload it in a few minutes
<tseng> bddebian: woo
<bddebian> Lathiat: :-)
<bipolar> bddebian, the new libofx2 has a file conflict with libofx1c. are you aware of this issue?
<tseng> bddebian: its accepted
<bddebian> bipolar: ??
<bipolar> it's easy enough to manualy work around
<bddebian> bipolar: I didn't get that
<bipolar> trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libofx.la', which is also in package libofx1c2
<bddebian> Ahh
<bddebian> I hate those
<fredix> slomo, ok i'll test
<bipolar> bddebian, is it something that needs to be fixed or just worked around?
<bddebian> bipolar: Quite honestly I don't know how to fix it properly.  Maybe a conflicts: or replaces: ??
<bipolar> bddebian, replaces I would think
<bipolar> bddebian, and a matching "provides: libofx1c2" perhaps. I'm not exactly sure how that one works.
<bddebian> bipolar: But the better question is:  Does it work? :-)
<bipolar> bddebian, the new gnucash has not come in yet, so I can't tell.
<bddebian> bipolar: I have it.  Did you apt-get update? ;-)
<bipolar> bddebian, yeah.
<dholbach> who makes a list of all the packages in the buldlogs that FTBFS? :)
<bipolar> gnucash: Depends: libofx1c2 but it is not installed
<bddebian> dholbach: No one. :-(  We need one
<diamond> lo folks
<bddebian> Hello diamond
<dholbach> hey diamond
<dholbach> nice to see you
<bipolar> looks like it's still the old gnucash that uses libofx1c2
<diamond> dholbach: got your mail ,-)
<dholbach> ROCK :)))))
<dholbach> *happy*
<bddebian> bipolar: Is it trying to get 1.8.10.18??
<diamond> hehe
<diamond> dholbach: i've been flat out busy for the past 4 months, but as of last week i finally have some time
<dholbach> that's nice to hear
<dholbach> really :)
* dholbach hugs diamond 
<diamond> hehe
<bipolar> gnucash: Depends: gnucash-common (>= 1.8.10-18) but 1.8.9-4ubuntu3 is to be installed
<bipolar> heh
<bddebian> Ack
<dholbach> who will help me make a list of security syncs we have to do from debian later today?
<bddebian> That isn't right either.  gnucash-common 1.8.10-18 is there??
* bddebian hides from dholbach
<dholbach> ajmitch wanted to help on that one, but later today, he will have morning and go to work :)
<bipolar> bddebian, it's the libofx problem. I've got to -f it.
<bipolar> it's downloading the new packages now
<dholbach> bddebian: if you get some organisation into the mess of FTBFS, that's nice too :)
<bddebian> dholbach: I asked someone to write a script a while back but they never finished :'-(
<dholbach> *nod*
<bipolar> bddebian, there are other packages that are still using libofx1c2 I think. we need a conflicts between the two
<bddebian> bipolar: grisbi and kmymoney2?
<bipolar> grisbi for sure.
<\sh> re
<bddebian> wb \sh
<bddebian> \sh or dholbach: Any thoughts on what bipolar is saying?  Should libofx2 have replaces: or conflicts: for libofx1c2 ?
<hubH> dholbach: your sistah looks hawt :-)
<Lathiat> i keep thinking your talking about libfox
<ivoks> omg! LOL!
<Lathiat> and that you keep typoing it
<ivoks> did anyone try deskbar?! :)
<Lathiat> ivoks: yeh
<ivoks> Lathiat: insert "b" in it :)
<ivoks> Lathiat: check out what it offers :)
<Lathiat> lol
<ivoks> :))
<\sh> bddebian: hmmm...
<dholbach> hubH: HAHA, i will tell her :)
<dholbach> bddebian: wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html; html2text -nobs today.html | grep failed | cut -d'_' -f1 | uniq
<dholbach>      could be a start for a script
<bddebian> SOmeone has a hot sister?? :-)
<\sh> dholbach: make her a MOTUness ,-)
<bddebian> dholbach: Nice, OK
<bddebian> dholbach: Is today enough though?  I was thinking of interrogating the by arch lists?
<\sh> bddebian: is it replacing libofx1c2?
<dholbach> bddebian: today quite alot failed
<bddebian> \sh: I "think" so :-)
<dholbach> bddebian: we might have to diff between newly generated and old lists from time to time
<dholbach> bddebian: it's just to NOT loose track of stuff we have to fix
<bddebian> Holy crap
<bddebian> dholbach: Egads, who the hell is gonna work on all this brokenness? :-(
<dholbach> we all
<bddebian> dholbach: You have a mouse in your pocket? ;-P
<dholbach> we will make breezy release rock so flawlessly
<Lathiat> what brokenness?
<bddebian> Lathiat: FTBFSs
<dholbach> Lathiat: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<bddebian> \sh: Did you ever get a chance to look at xgsmlib again or is it just unfixable?
<Lathiat> ah yes
<\sh> bddebian: I think it's more an upstream problem...there is more
<Lathiat> i noticed the logs were a sea of red
<Lathiat> are we doing test rebuilds?
<dholbach> Lathiat: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test
<dholbach> the problem is: when the stuff was built, it got rebuild
<dholbach> -> no logs :-(
<Lathiat> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/buildlogs/
<Lathiat> ^i salso usefull
<\sh> mitsuhiko: pingeling...
<Lathiat> i swear all of universe is failing to build :)
<dholbach> we could weasle it all out of the [a-z]  dirs
<mitsuhiko> \sh: pongelingelong
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/[a-z] 
<\sh> mitsuhiko: explain to this group of motus your idea of offline wiki package...
<ogra> Lathiat, my buildlogs only reads lamonts file ... if stuff is missing there, it wont appear on my site
<\sh> mitsuhiko: and if it's ok, if we try to generate a real package out of it and push it to universe
<mitsuhiko> ouch
<\sh> mitsuhiko: gotcha ,-)
<mitsuhiko> \sh: a real package is not the problem
<mitsuhiko> we (german community) are going to switch to moinmoin
<mitsuhiko> and i've written a little script which creates static html pages of all existing moin pages
<Lathiat> dholbach: i dont quite get the missing log thing?
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists
<dholbach> that's where logs were
<mitsuhiko> you can fetch a copy via rsync or a pseudo deb package which runs rsync
<dholbach> (after the test-rebuild was done)
<Lathiat> oh and they got overwrote?
<dholbach> yes
<Lathiat> oops
<mitsuhiko> \sh: the problem creating a univese package is that it's not easy to update it
<dholbach> but we could weasle the information out of the http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/[a-z]  dirs
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> 36configure: error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh in . ./.. ./../..
<Lathiat> what causes that
<\sh> mitsuhiko: well....something like an update manager?
<\sh> mitsuhiko: think about rolling it out to other wikis of the ubuntu community
<mitsuhiko> \sh: sure. i've rewritten the whole script so that it can work with each moinmoin installation
<dholbach> Lathiat: i think it's gets placed by aclocal (any of the crazy auto* tools)
<dholbach> Lathiat: you might have to re-run one of those
<Lathiat> dholbach: well, it appears to exist
<mitsuhiko> \sh: maybe we can add a small menu button "Update MoinMoin Snapshot" or something like this
<dholbach> Lathiat: autoconf stuff broken?
<Lathiat> dunno, i'll try locally
* hubH should install pbuilder now :-/
<dholbach> Lathiat: run in a separate copy   autoreconf -i  to be sure, it's just a "reconfiguration" thing
<dholbach> hubH: got my logs?
<\sh> mitsuhiko: hmmm...think a bit bigger as normal :) I know u r modest :)
<mitsuhiko> \sh: lol
<bddebian> bipolar: Does it work?
<bipolar> bddebian, looks like it. I can see the items from the qfx file
<bddebian> bipolar: Nice
<hubH> dholbach: yeah.
<hubH> dholbach: so one is not building. looks like I miss a dependency
<hubH> dholbach: and that the Mono thing
<hubH> ....
<slomo> hubH: ?
<dholbach> hubH: oh i see
<hubH> slomo: the only reason I work on the package is because of the tool itself, not because it is written in C#
<\sh> bddebian: libofx2 if it's really upgrading libofx1c2 then put conflict/replaces in it..check the rdepends :)
<slomo> hubH: what package is it? i'm a bit bored atm so maybe i can help you ;)
<hubH> slomo: on REVU, autopano-sift. No biggie, I think I know
<bddebian> bipolar: You didn't get any error about libgw-wct.so on startup did you?
<hubH> slomo: but worse: it crash, and I haven't heard from upstream
<slomo> hubH: oh... so don't bother until upstream fixed it ;) how does it crash?
<hubH> slomo: badly
<slomo> hubH: have a backtrace?
<hubH> slomo: not here
<hubH> slomo: wait a sec.
<hubH> now that my TODO list as one major item less
<Lathiat> bddebian: i swear i saw that new gnome-launch-box uploaded before
<bddebian> Lathiat: Really?
<Lathiat> i mean ic ant see it
<Lathiat> but i thought it was
<Lathiat> maybe i was thinking of quick-lounge-applet
<hubH> slomo: first, the error is mcs /debug /unsafe /target:library /out:libsift.dll \
<hubH> 	ImageMap.cs KDTree.cs ScaleSpace.cs SimpleMatrix.cs ImageMatchModel.cs RANSAC.cs Transform.cs LoweDetector.cs GaussianConvolution.cs KeypointXML.cs MatchKeys.cs BondBall.cs AreaFilter.cs /pkg:gtk-sharp /r:System.Drawing /r:ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib
<hubH> error CS8027: Couldn't run pkg-config: Cannot find the specified file
<hubH> slomo: and I don't know why
<Lathiat> hubH: whats that from?
<hubH> Lathiat: pbuilder
<Lathiat> but from what app
<slomo> hubH: build-depend on libgtk-cil
<hubH> Lathiat: autopano-sift
<hubH> slomo: Build-Depends-Indep: cdbs (>= 0.4.23-1.1), debhelper (>= 4.1.0), cli-common (>= 0.2.0),  mono-mcs (>= 1.0.4) | c-sharp-compiler, mono-classlib-1.0 (>= 1.0), libgtk-cil (>= 1.0), libglade-cil (>= 1.0)
<hubH> slomo: so already
<slomo> hm
* hubH will get more coffe
* \sh goes RC testing with laptop...brb
<bipolar> bddebian, sorry for the delay. nope. I saw none of those kinds of errors. ofx warnings when importing, yes...
<hubH> slomo: maybe depend on pkg-config?
<slomo> hubH: when it isn't pulled in already... yes
<hubH> slomo: ok, so I will
<hubH> slomo: shouldn't libgtk-cil depends on it?
<bddebian> bipolar: ofx warnings or errors?
<hubH> or msc
<hubH> mcs
<slomo> hubH: yes... would be better... but i think there were reasons not to do so... i'll talk to tseng about that later
<slomo> does it work now?
<hubH> slomo: don't know yet. these are logs from pbuilder. It works here
<hubH> slomo: installing pbuilder
<bipolar> bddebian, Error: ofx_proc_transaction_cb: WRITEME: Gnucash ofx_proc_transaction():Add PAYEE and ADRESS here once supported by libofx!
<bipolar> I have no idea what it means.
<bddebian> Eeks
* ryu|essen is away: Ich bin beschftigt
<hubH> is it to be expected that pbuilder do not know about ubuntu distributions?
<jamessan|work> hubH: are you installing it on an Ubuntu system?
<hubH> jamessan|work: yeah
<Yagisan> hubH: Ubuntu's pbuilder knows - Debian'd doesn't
* hubH check is is on the right machine
<hubH> Yagisan: I'm running breezy
<Yagisan> hubH: Me too - I just build i386 and amd64
<Yagisan> hubH: Did you adjust pbuilderrc to tell it to look for Ubuntu and not Debian ?
<hubH> no
<hubH> I just used the default configuration :-/
<Yagisan> hubH: then it tried to install Debian from the Japan mirror :)
* bddebian is sneaking up on ajmitch...
<jamessan|work> hubH: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<hubH> jamessan|work: yeah, I just got that one
<hubH> jamessan|work: doing it now
<\sh> re
<bddebian> wb \sh
<Yagisan> ubuntu also have an ia64 port ?
<Lathiat> yes but i beleive its sortof unofficial atm
<Yagisan> Lathiat: that can run i386 binaries can't it ?
<\sh> bddebian: E: /var/cache/apt/archives/libofx2_1-0x1,5518000000056p-1350.8.0-3ubuntu1_i386.deb: versuche /usr/lib/libofx.la zu berschreiben, welches auch in Paket libofx1c2 ist
<\sh> sorry...it tries to overwrite libofx.la ;)
<bddebian> Aye :-)
<bipolar> bddebian, it looks like everything imported just fine from my qfx file.
<bipolar> bddebian, I can't find any mistakes
<bddebian> bipolar: Kick ass, thank you
<bddebian> bipolar: BTW, did it add a GNOME menu item properly?
<\sh> bddebian: fix it ;)
<bddebian> \sh: Fix what?  The libofx thing?
<\sh> yes
<bipolar> bddebian, er...no, it didn't.... :\
<\sh> it breaks upgrades
<bddebian> OK.  Just Replaces: libofx1c2 ?
<\sh> it think it conflicts/replaces libofx1c2 so it can overwrite it correctly
<\sh> but I'm really not sure...
<Lathiat> Yagisan: no idea, probably not, iirc itantium is totally different to x86
<\sh> bddebian: what says debian?
<Riddell> bddebian: new kmymoney in?
<bddebian> Riddell: Just added --with-aqbanking back in
<Riddell> sounds good, whatever it is
<bddebian> Riddell: Dunno but it was a bug on Malone and it was commented out in rules.  I think it needed the newer aqbanking stuff I just synced the other day
<Yagisan> Lathiat: from memory I thought it could - it's just I'm writing a small patch for ltsp to optionally create i386 chroots
<Yagisan> and I'd like to make sure if I should include ia64 as well as amd64. I was hoping for confirmation - oh well - it can wait
<Yagisan> until tommorow
<Lathiat> no idea sorry
<Yagisan> Lathiat: no worries - thanks anyway
<Lathiat> night all
* Lathiat -> bed
<bddebian> Gnight Lathiat
<tseng> bddebian: oops
<tseng> bddebian: i screwed something up on that package, will look later
<bddebian> tseng: OK, let me know if you need anything
<tseng> i will do it after work
<Yagisan> Goodnight Lathiat
<StoneTable> bddebian:  thanks for applying my patches to gnome-launch-box!
<bddebian> StoneTable: No problem, thanks for sending them.  Though it didn't build on the buildd :-(
<StoneTable> :(
<slomo> bddebian: why?
<bddebian> slomo: Can't find install.sh in ../ .../.. SOme crap?? :-(
<Lathiat> bddebian: yeh i saw that
<StoneTable> ahh
<Lathiat> nfi why
<StoneTable> I think I remember seeing something like that when I first pulled from their svn
<Lathiat> i tried to build it locally and it didn't exhibit that problem
<slomo> hm
<bddebian> StoneTable: Yeah, I had to run ./autogen.sh first
<hubH> dholbach: this time it builds in pbuilder :-)
<dholbach> rock
<dholbach> super :)
<slomo> bddebian: i have an idea... let me look at it ;)
<dholbach> i'll do a bunch of review later
<hubH> dholbach: I have to upload it first
<bddebian> slomo: Rocking, thanks man
<dholbach> take your time
<bddebian> dholbach: Reviews?? Get fixin' damnit. ;-P
<crimsun> dholbach: how's the debian-*-announce coming along?
<dholbach> crimsun: not started working yet, will do later
<crimsun> k.
<slomo> bddebian: yes... you made a broken tarball it seems :(
<ivoks> 'evening
<bddebian> slomo: How the hell did I do that?
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey!
<slomo> bddebian: you didn't do make dist or something similar but just put the directory in a tarball...
<hubH> dholbach: it is now :-)
<dholbach> <- phone
<slomo> bddebian: now we have links for install.sh, etc... and .svn directories... and everything...
<slomo> bddebian: i'll fix that for now... but for the next time please do a better tarball ;)
<bddebian> slomo: OK, thx, sorry
<StoneTable> That's good to know.  I didn't learn about make dist until a few nights ago
<slomo> bddebian: and the version is svn20050911... it should be the date of the last commit
<bddebian>  :-(
<StoneTable> i need to bribe someone to package and upload a new app for me :D
<bddebian> StoneTable: Which one?
<StoneTable> http://battleaxe.net/projects/nautilus-wallpaper/
<hubH> StoneTable: how much is the bride?
<StoneTable> adds an option to set as wallpaper to nautilus' context menu
<hubH> bribe?
<StoneTable> well, I'll blog about you favorably ;)
<bddebian> Although apparenlty I am not the person to get to package something :-(
<slomo> bddebian: and you have the patch directly in the sourcetree and not only in debian/patches ;)
<bddebian> slomo: That I knew :-)
<slomo> bddebian: and it's a native package... hum
<slomo> i'll fix that all ;)
<bddebian> \sh: See, I'm no God, I suck :)
<slomo> bddebian: no you did really good work the last days :) and you don't do the same mistakes again
<hubH> StoneTable: given the amount of negativity emitted by my blog, it is useless
<\sh> bddebian: no
<StoneTable> heh
* bddebian renames wiki page to Bddebian is Dog
<ivoks> everybody is nervous before release :)
<bddebian> They are?
<spayne> i am excited :)
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> bipolar: Hey.  I'm a little surprised it all worked.  I just now realized that the newer aqbanking stuff hadn't hit yet
<bipolar> heh
<ivoks> you see
<ivoks> nervous :)
<bddebian> No, grumpy ;-P
<ivoks> :)))
<bipolar> grumpy? not me... I'm more "neuronic".
<slomo> bddebian: don't apply patches directly to native packages ;) it's hard to find everything you changed...
<bipolar> s/neuronic/neurotic
<bddebian> slomo: I couldn't get the debdiff to apply cleanly
<bddebian> I figured this package would get overwritten so I was less than careful :(
<slomo> is it only the file in tests and the one for which a patch was in your tarball?
<slomo> well, at least it builds now ;)
<bddebian> slomo: lb-module-applications.c and test/search-applications are the only two files that were patched outside of the svn updates
<slomo> ok
<slomo> what a shitty interface ;)
<slomo> bddebian: uploaded... i hope this builds now on the buildds... and not only in pbuilder ;)
<dholbach> wrt SECURITY:
<dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html <- we're good on track
<ivoks> omg we suck
<ivoks> breezy is ok
<ivoks> but hoary, wharty...
<dholbach> we should make more use of *-security for universe
<dholbach> that's why we need a ROCKING security team soon
<ivoks> yeah
<dholbach> for old releases it's not a simple matter of syncing, but of backporting cherrypicked fixes
<dholbach> but i know: we'll get that team together
<bddebian> slomo: It is pretty ugly isn't it :-)
<ivoks> ok, if i fix bacula, will it get into breezy?
<dholbach> ivoks: you should ask pitti and see if it's not just a sync from debian
<sistpoty> hi folks
<slomo> bddebian: unusable imho ;)
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<bddebian> slomo: Aye :-)
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> does anyone know if tb meeting (rescheduled) is today?
<bddebian> It was supposed to be.  But I won't be able to make it if it is :-(
<sistpoty> heh, so i won't get bad comments from you ;)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Never
<sistpoty> slomo: infinity cared for haskell-cabal (your build failed)... he said he would break it properly in case your upload hasn't done so yet ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: hm, mine failed? why?
<slomo> it's my version in the archives and it is uninstallable ;)
<sistpoty> imo too build-dep on too old ghc6 version... but i didn't dig deeper after infinitys statement ;)
<sistpoty> s/too//
<sistpoty> ;)
<slomo> yes the old one had a wrong build-dependency... that was my first try to break it weeks ago ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<slomo> i thought elmo would remove it soon... so i didn't bother
<slomo> but we've seen to what this leads... ;)
<sistpoty> yep
<bddebian> Anyone have a clue what would be causing this with python2.4?  http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/2831
<jamessan|work> bddebian: are you trying to compile something that uses python2.4?
<bddebian> jamessan|work: cyphesis-cpp
<sistpoty> bddebian: I've seen this once, but don't remember what the reason was :(
<jamessan|work> bddebian: is python2.4-dev installed?
<bddebian> jamessan|work: Yes and python2.4-dev
<\sh> hmmm..check configure.ac
<bddebian> \sh: That's what I "changed" ;-)
<\sh> autotools dance?
<sistpoty> bddebian: you might try to run aclocal and friends to update autotools-stuff
<bddebian> Hmm, just autoconf won't do it?
<\sh> no
<bddebian> fuXX0r
<\sh> aclocal, automake, autoconf
<\sh> and find the right version ;)
<bddebian> Another point to \sh on how stupid I am :-)
<\sh> bddebian: read the planet ;)
<\sh> I'll spread it to the world ;)
* ajmitch_ hates his dodgy dsl 
<sistpoty> bddebian, \sh maybe even autheader after aclocal
<\sh> sistpoty: he should try the normal dance first
<sistpoty> autoheader even
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch_
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> hello
<ajmitch_> ah, now \sh has a longer list of his heroes
<bddebian> ajmitch_: ??
<ajmitch_> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/117-Wow...thx.html
<ajmitch_> and bddebian is listed!
<\sh> ajmitch_: I had to list barry...
<ajmitch_> of course
<\sh> ajmitch_: because without him, the joke towards elmo doesn't work ;)
<\sh> trying to update tipptrainer to wxgtk2.6
<bddebian> heh
* ajmitch wanders off to his corner
<bddebian> ajmitch: Your corner? :-)
<bddebian> \sh: I just got the elmo reference. Are you trying to get me in more trouble?? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: now
<\sh> bddebian: oh no  ;)
<ajmitch> s/now/no/
* ajmitch humbly grovels before bddebian 
<\sh> bddebian: but if I spread your name all over the world, you can't hide anywhere ;)
<bddebian> Oh great
<\sh> bddebian: so you're bound to ubuntu-motu for your rest of your life ;)
<ajmitch> lucky you
<ajmitch> I can escape anytime I want
* \sh too ;)
<ajmitch> not with your blog posts, \sh
<sistpoty> haha, my dist-upgrade failed because of libghc6-cabal-dev :)
<\sh> but I will mention ajmitch the next time when he fixes beagle together with tseng ;)
* ajmitch wonders if he'll ever catch up to the real MOTUs
<ajmitch> \sh: oh thanks
* ajmitch will never get mentioned now :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Watch out, I'm catching up on Karma ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: yeah
<ajmitch> bddebian: I might as well stop then
<bddebian> Gah, come on d00d
<\sh> ajmitch: u r main...u can't stop
<ajmitch> yeah I can
<ajmitch> and I'm hardly main
<\sh> ajmitch: u don't stop
<ajmitch> I don't?
<\sh> being a motu
<ajmitch> but I can :)
<dholbach> guys, i have news
<ajmitch> spill the news
* bddebian chains ajmitch to his chair
<dholbach> some of you might not like them
* ajmitch sits on the chair & breaks it
<ajmitch> dholbach: just say it
<bddebian> Uh oh
<dholbach> i condensed the buildlogs in Tests/
<dholbach> it comes down to this: http://ubuntu.gplan.info/FAILED
<ajmitch> and we've got 25% of universe FTBFS?
<dholbach> ajmitch: the good news is: it's 5%
<ajmitch> that's not much
<dholbach> around
<dholbach> 767
<ajmitch> some of those shouldn't be in the archive
<ajmitch> like zopex3
<\sh> dholbach: ugh
<\sh> dholbach: which arch? all over or only i386?
<ajmitch> bddebian should be able to fix that list in 30 minutes or so
<sistpoty> hehe
<dholbach> \sh: yes, that's a problem
<\sh> fck
<dholbach> \sh: ok... will take the list down
<dholbach> my problem
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> a few of those were in main
<\sh> dholbach: let the list...
<sistpoty> dholbach: when have these testbuilds been done/where? might they have been affected by the cabal-buildd-breakage?
<ajmitch> or I might be mistaken
<\sh> dholbach: when was the snapshot started?
<dholbach> sistpoty: information from september/october
<dholbach> i downloaded all the lists (not the logs themselves)
<dholbach> and condensed them
<dholbach> but \sh spotted the issue: these are FTBFS on all archs
<dholbach> which is ... wrong
<ajmitch> gnue-forms/0.5.11-2ubuntu1 ?
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> old
<ajmitch> the list needs updated
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/breezy-autotest.failed.i386
* ajmitch got 0.5.12 in since then
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/breezy-autotest.failed.amd64
<\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/Lists/breezy-autotest.failed.ia64
<\sh> i don't see so many failed packages
<dholbach> \sh: those lists are worth nothing
<dholbach> \sh: autobuild got restarted
<dholbach> \sh: lists are lost
<ajmitch> I can run over the archive & see where source & binary package versions differ
<dholbach> old ones
<ajmitch> gives a good indication of what still FTBFS
<dholbach> ajmitch: sometimes we have the package and the source, but they don't build
<\sh> dholbach: u mean they're just starting another round today?
<ajmitch> dholbach: yep
<ajmitch> dholbach: throw them all at pbuilder! ;)
<dholbach> \sh: whenever it started again
<dholbach> \sh: that's why i had to pull down a couple of index.html files
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> infinity or lamont should know
<dholbach> they are not kept
<dholbach> i already asked infinity
<\sh> s.h.i.t.
<tseng> hm
<\sh> but 5% of how many packages?
<dholbach> ok, here's what i will do
<dholbach> i will get per-architecture-files
<dholbach> then i will couple the results with popcon
<ajmitch> so who was planning to sleep this week?
<dholbach> and we should try to get the top 20% done
<dholbach> (at least) :)
<\sh> tomorrow it's the birthday of my son...so I'm busy until the evening...after that...
<dholbach> how does that plan sound?
<ajmitch> tonight I'll be rather busy
<ajmitch> but I can probably die over the weekend
<\sh> dholbach: well...sounds ok...but we need some ppc arch to test as well, if ppc is ftbfsing
<dholbach> it's just an orientaion
<\sh> dholbach: you have an amd64...and most of the motus have i386
<slomo> \sh: i can do the ppc tests
<dholbach> we did an extraordinary job, because this time we fixed loads of bugs
<slomo> \sh: and i can do some amd64 stuff
<dholbach> and not only transitioons/ftbfs
<ajmitch> s/we/bddebian/
<dholbach> ok
<\sh> for ravel...we don't have the power to install the build-deps by ourselves
<dholbach> i will get cracking on those lists
* ajmitch runs off to work before he's *really* late
<\sh> so if someone has a login for me, and my personal chroot or pbuilder to build on amd64...I'll hug him :)
<slomo> \sh: i have pbuilder access to an amd64 machine now so when you want something tested...
<\sh> slomo: rock :)
<\sh> so nightshift this weekend
<bddebian> dholbach: Can you put that on a wiki or post the URL in the topic or something so I can look at it when I get home?
<dholbach> bddebian: i will put it on the wiki, when i'm done with it
<dholbach> bddebian: thank you for all your good work
<bddebian> Bah :-)
<bddebian> I just make more work for slomo and \sh :-)
<dholbach> haha :)
<dholbach> so you keep them busy... nice one :)
<\sh> he broke my system today...
<\sh> so he's god..he can punish me ;)
<bddebian> haha
<ivoks> hi
<sistpoty> hi ivoks
<\sh> moins ivoks
<bddebian> wb ivoks
<bddebian> Heya seth_k
<\sh> hey ogra_
<bddebian> Gotta run home, catch you in a few gang
<ajmitch> bye bdd
<dholbach> here we go:
<dholbach> http://ubuntu.gplan.info/FTBFS
<dholbach> now i will couple this info with popcon
<dholbach> so we REALLY know
<tseng> oh man
<dholbach> btw: did you all turn popcon on?
<tseng> thats alot
<dholbach> ok, listen:
<dholbach> say version 0.5.4 FTBFS
<dholbach> and we got 0.5.6 in from debian and it built
<dholbach> then we "just" have to clear it from the list
* ajmitch wonders if he'll be any use helping out with that list
<tseng> you cant script that?
<dholbach> so there are some false "positives" on the list
<\sh> dholbach: elmo comes back today?
<dholbach> \sh: i think he is back
<\sh> dholbach: or who else can sync from deb unstable?
<dholbach> \sh: just ask in #u-devel
<ajmitch> mdz & kamion, apparantly
<ajmitch> though I wouldn't want to ask too much :)
<\sh> we have to if we want to fix universe ;) or I'll write emails to elmo with all syncs
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I'm still waiting for syncs
<tseng> mono/1.1.8.3-1ubuntu2
<tseng> cross it off
<ajmitch> and I've got another 3 or 4 to ask about
<\sh> me too
<dholbach> tseng: wait
<dholbach> tseng: i'll put it on the wiki or somewhere else
<tseng> dholbach: waiting
<slomo> dholbach: you can remove gtkpbbuttons
<dholbach> tseng: i'm not going to cross off stuff for you
<dholbach> GUYS
<dholbach> ARE YOU MAD?
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: no
<tseng> YES
<dholbach> i see
<slomo> dholbach: sure... :P
<dholbach> that explains a lot
<dholbach> :-p
<ajmitch> dholbach: where do arch: all packages fit on there?
<ajmitch> tseng: beagle/0.0.13.4-0ubuntu1
<dholbach> those are built on i386
<crimsun> let's see, it's 1 week before freeze...yes, we're ALL mad
<ajmitch> kill beagle/0.0.13.4-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> sorry
<tseng> ajmitch: ARE YOU MAD
<ajmitch> kill gnue-forms/0.5.11-2ubuntu1
<ajmitch> tseng: HELL YES
<tseng> ELITE
* tseng wants to go home
<ajmitch> dholbach: wiki is ok, but not so good
<\sh> crimsun: mad? no
<ajmitch> we should have setup RT or trac on tiber :)
<crimsun> \sh: mad/crazy
<dholbach> ...
<\sh> crimsun: if we can get most of it done (together) in less then one week...then we're heroes ;)
<\sh> EVERYBODY LET'S ROCK'N'ROLL ;)
<ivoks> huh?
* ajmitch wants sleep
* ogra doesnt feel like rock n roll
<ajmitch> dholbach: on the wiki yet?
<\sh> ogra: u sleep
<ogra> \sh, i cant...
<dholbach> ajmitch: no, as i said: going to couple with popcon
<ogra> have to get edubuntu rolling
<\sh> I left alone my mind was blank I needed time to get the memories from my mind
<ivoks> ogra: dhcp? :/
<ajmitch> \sh: go visit ogra with some sleeping pills please :)
<\sh> What did I see can I believe that what I saw that night was real and not just fantasy
<\sh> oh well...iron maiden ;)
<ogra> ivoks, mdz just merged the (now sadly trivial) fix
<ivoks> ogra: i saw
<slomo> \sh: =)
<\sh> ogra: I hope I'll see you @UBZ in better state then the last time...
<ogra> its not what i needed, but prevents the install from breaking
<ivoks> \sh: he was drunk? :)
<crimsun> it's better than the kernel OOPSing on boot, that's for sure
<\sh> ivoks: no
<ajmitch> dead on his feet?
<dholbach> ok, after this the main packages will be filtered out :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: thanks
<ajmitch> dholbach: just tell us when we can start kicking old packages off the list
<dholbach> yeah
<ivoks> no meeting today?
<ivoks> TB
<ivoks> well... time for bed
<ivoks> night
<sistpoty> gn8
<\sh> ace-of-penguin --> sync from debian --> solved all issues
<\sh> wherre is the wiki page?
<dholbach> MAN
<dholbach> come off it, i'm not that fast
<dholbach> i'm coupling the data with popcon
<\sh> hehe ;)
<ajmitch> sorry
<ajmitch> we'll shut up now
<\sh> ace-of-penguin is very important ;)
<sistpoty> it is \sh ;)
* ajmitch has never used it
<carthik> hi MOTUs - a quick question - does an app not having a .Desktop file count as a bug - can I submit a repackaged version with a .Desktop file - would this count as a bug fix?
<\sh> carthik: file a bug to malone and apply the desktop file as patch
<\sh> or provide a debdiff
<\sh> even better :)
<\sh> dholbach: achilles fixed
<carthik> thanks Stephan - have a great day - I really liked reading your blog the other day. :)
<\sh> carthik: thanks :)
<ajmitch> \sh: see, you're famous now ;)
<\sh> lol
* \sh needs a hobbit hole ;)
<ajmitch> I can walk down the street without fear of people knowing me ;)
<ajmitch> or go on irc
<\sh> I should black out my hackergotchi ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: and don't laugh...it happened to me twice that someone spoke to me because he saw me on planet
<Nafallo> lol
* ajmitch should just fix bugs, so that one day, maybe, someone might see my name ;)
<carthik> andrew mitchell, waikato ... NZ
<carthik> gotta love google
<\sh> carthik: thx :)
<carthik> Didn't mean to freak anyone out, especially ajmitch :)
<carthik> have fun guys, me off to potter....
<ajmitch> carthik: completely wrong
<ajmitch> well the NZ part is right
<ajmitch> but I'm not in waikato :)
<carthik> ajmitch, ah, mixup I suppose : http://www.wlug.org.nz/AndrewMitchell
<ajmitch> that's the waikato lug wiki page :)
<carthik> later, guys, keep ruling the universe.
<ajmitch> the page does say I live in dunedin ;)
<\sh> 428582415 kb hmm...this is how much in GB?
* ajmitch should probably update that page
<ajmitch> 408.728041649
<\sh> what?
<\sh> 408GB?
<Nafallo> \sh: counting pr0n? :-)
<\sh> http://stats.blogweb.de/linux/
<\sh> I think I should never, never, never host a mpg file of sabdfl anymore ;)
<Nafallo> hihihi
<ajmitch> heh
<Nafallo> I was right ;-)
<ajmitch> that's the total for the yar
<ajmitch> year
<\sh> sure
* ajmitch hits keyboard
<\sh> http://stats.blogweb.de/shermann/ <- this is my german blog ;)
<ajmitch> not quite as famous
* ajmitch gets approx 0 hits :)
<\sh> well...I should write a book
<ajmitch> 'Ubuntu from the inside' ;)
<Nafallo> :-)
<\sh> "The Life Of \sh - Downhill, Uphill, Downhill"
<ajmitch> "The life of ajmitch - boring as ever"
<\sh> I have to go to bed..I have to get up at 4 UTC tomorrow morning...have to leave early for the birthday
<ogra> \sh, dont forget "holiday at ogra's" ;)
<\sh> ogra: Oh no...this will be an extra chapter :)
<ogra> lol
<Nafallo> A1 :-)
<\sh> ogra: what about camping next year? :)
<ogra> describing the different sorts of beer ?
<ogra> \sh, if we still live here, why not :)
<\sh> ogra: well...if you still not living there, I'll live in your basement *lol*
<ogra> heh, true ;)
<\sh> ogra: btw...today there was a new issue of "Unity Media Magazin" ;)
<\sh> ogra: "we will focus on customers, but we won't to become technology experts, cause it's cheaper to get external specialists" ;)
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> outsourcing ...
<\sh> ogra: written by pham sandu ,-)
<ogra> greetings to bran :)
<\sh> he's in ffm
<\sh> fixing BMR for iesy ;)
<ogra> he'll soon be full time consultant
<ogra> for you...
<\sh> ogra: btw...28th is farewell party in cologne, cause of george
<ogra> i fly on the 26th
<\sh> ogra: no...we're not specialists...only stoopid ops ppl
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: right...i forgot
<\sh> ogra: so it looks like that I go on 28th partying and have to get up early in the morning to get ready for ubz....FUN
<ogra> you can sleep on the plane
<Nafallo> why did I read planet?
<ogra> i'm a bit sad i fly alone...
<\sh> ogra: with siretart and others? I'll promised siretart to explain how mpls works
<\sh> Nafallo: u don't read the planet?
<ogra> heh
<Nafallo> \sh: ofcourse I do. that's probably why I read plane as that :-P.
<\sh> w8ing for acl2
* Kyral goes to polish his fortune-mod-futurama package
<Kyral> Time to get a clean bill of health
<Kyral> can someone tell me what this means?
<Kyral> W: fortune-mod-futurama source: native-package-with-dash-version
<Kyral> W: fortune-mod-futurama source: build-depends-without-arch-dep
<\sh> guys need to go to bed...acl2 is still building (debian version)
<\sh> g'night all :)
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh_away
<Kyral> those are the only two errors that lintain is reporting
* sistpoty hates, hates, hates package hat :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-12
<Kyral> Got lintain down to one error
<Kyral> native-package-with-dash-version
<sistpoty> Kyral: what package was it again?
<Kyral> fortune-mod-futurama
<Kyral> I haven't uploaded these changes yet :P
<sistpoty> Kyral: i think i know the reason for this error ;)
<Kyral> yes?
<sistpoty> Kyral: just glancing at the debian-policy, so i don't tell you wrong stuff ;)
<Kyral> lol
* sistpoty always gets it wrong with version numbers btw
<Kyral> lol
<sistpoty> Kyral: use 0.2ubuntu1 as your version in changelog file... that should fix the lintian complaints
<Kyral> lintian is clean, now to check with linda
<Kyral> which is also clean
<sistpoty> good work ;)
<Kyral> and uploaded to REVU
<Kyral> wait a sec
<Kyral> okay it passed linda on my system
<Kyral> but the REVU one is spitting out an error
<sistpoty> Kyral: you can ignore this... linda on revu-server is outdated ;)
<Kyral> okay
* sistpoty installs a newer linda
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> so all it needs is someone to advocate it
<sistpoty> yes, two motus need to advocate on this (as it is a new package), and then one motu to upload ;)
<Kyral> hehe
<Kyral> Its a small package so it should be easy to get sponsored
<Kyral> Is there a Meta-Pack for the boost libs? And would anyone be objected to one?
<sistpoty> Kyral: what do you mean with meta-pack? (virtual package?)
<Kyral> yah, something that just installs all of them instead of having to do it one at a time
<Kyral> think kubuntu/ubuntu-desktop
<sistpoty> hm... libboost-dev pretty much should do the job?
<Kyral> it doesn't
<Kyral> I should I know I installed it today and it didn't pull them in
<Kyral> it only reccommends them
<sistpoty> did you install with apt-get or aptitude?
<sistpoty> or s.th. else?
<Kyral> aptitude and apt
<Kyral> err, its SUGGESTS, not recommends
<Kyral> and somehow Apt-Get started acting like Aptitude...
<dholbach> why is   g++-4.0    in    http://popcon.ubuntu.com/universe/by_inst    ?
<dholbach> **ARG**ARG**ARG**
<sistpoty> Kyral: sorry, don't know much about libboost-deps, maybe there is some reason for the recommends only.
<sistpoty> Kyral: but as long as there is one "meta-package" i don't think a virtual package or similar will be needed
<sistpoty> suggests even ;)
<Kyral> and aptitude seems to always force a long prelink..
<sistpoty> dholbach: why shouldn't it be there? (some popcon magic?)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: universe.?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: good point ;)
<Kyral> I don't think libboost-dev is a meta-package..
<sistpoty> Kyral: no it isn't (afaik)... that's why i used quotes ;)
<Kyral> ah
<Sepheebear> hey MOTUs, im using cdbs and everytime i build a package, im left with files a bunch of extra files in the debian directory
<sistpoty> Kyral: have you tried your fortunes-package in pbuilder?
<Sepheebear> how do i get rid of them?
<Kyral> sistpoty, no
<Kyral> Sepheebear, debuild clean
<sistpoty> Kyral: maybe you should... PBuilderHowto should be the wiki for instructions on pbuilder
<sistpoty> Kyral: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/fortune-mod-futurama-0510061810/fortune-mod-futurama_0.2ubuntu1.buildlog
<Sepheebear> Kyral: do i run that or is cdbs supposed to do thatfor me?
<sistpoty> Kyral: but this may be related to some problem with revu-build as well
<Kyral> Sepheebear, I dunno I don't use CDBS
<Kyral> sistpoty, I think the problem is that debhelper listed itself in the build-depends...
<Kyral> what effect would it have if I removed it?
<sistpoty> Kyral: no, debhelper must be there if you use dh_* commands in rules... otherwise it will FTBFS
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> the only thing I see is that I forgot that there is no CLEAN in the makefile
<Kyral> okay, got rid of the clean parts in the rules
<sistpoty> Kyral: the clean is not the problem
<Kyral> eh?
<sistpoty> Kyral: your install target in rules does too few things ;)
* Kyral scratches his head
<Kyral> eh?
<sistpoty> Kyral: you are missing dh_gencontrol, dh_md5sum, dh_builddeb
<Kyral> I didn't think I needed those
<sistpoty> Kyral: iirc the rules file (when called with appropriate targets) must produce a package. if you want to know the details, they should be located in the debian-policy ;)
* ajmitch needs to 'educate' Lathiat, a bug was in state accepted because I hadn't finished working on it :P
<Kyral> sistpoty, ah okay
<Kyral> fixed
<Kyral> wait...why did that make another error?
<sistpoty> ?
<Kyral> E: fortune-mod-futurama source: debian-files-list-in-source
<hubH> Kyral: what is that package?
<tseng> sounds like fortunes from the cartoon futurama :)
<Kyral> an addon for Fortune
<hubH> ah
<hubH> I should put that on my machine
<hubH> hostname == bender :-)
<Kyral> I was stupid I wiped out the dh_clean parts in rules
<Kyral> okay that is done, should be the last upload
<sistpoty> Kyral: have you tried it in pbuilder yet?
<Kyral> I don't have a pbuilder setup
<Kyral> I've been kinda busy with school...
<tseng> you really need one if you intend to package
<tseng> it takes about 20 minutes
<tseng> 5 of real work
<Kyral> fine...its just been a long day
<sistpoty> Kyral: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto (maybe you need to s/hoary/breezy/)
* sistpoty will be back after a smoke
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<dholbach> please read the "problems" section carefully
<Kyral> okay....what does FTBFS mean...
<dholbach> Kyral: apt-get install bsdgames; wtf ftbfs
<Kyral> still doesn't mean anything
<crimsun> hmm? ''wtf ftbfs'' will tell you
<dholbach> Kyral: did you execute it?
<Kyral> no
<dholbach> ah well
<Kyral> ah...
<dholbach> :)
<Kyral> fortune-mod-futurama doesn't have that problem. No source code in the first place ;P
<crimsun> source refers to the .orig.tar.gz ;)
<tseng> ftbfs means the source fails to produce a dpkg
<Kyral> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 <<--So these don't build from source?
<tseng> not nessecarily GCC bomb
<Kyral> okaaay....sorry my mind is processing slowly tonight...
<tseng> Lathiat: did you mail elmo re myththemes
<sistpoty> how evil is it to hack a configure to force use things like HAVE_SPRINTF (instead of fixing it?)
<dholbach> so i guess we have something to do :)
* sistpoty is just working on xosview... apart from still pbuildering hat
* Diablo-D3 flexes muscles.
* sistpoty casts some defensive spells
<sistpoty> ;)
<grayman> heh
<tseng> ogra++
<ogra> :)
<sistpoty> ogra++ from me as well ;)
<Diablo-D3> ogra-- and ogra--
<Diablo-D3> because karma sucks.
<tseng> you can all go nuts
<tseng> right here
<grayman> lol
<nuts> bah, taken already
<tseng> i just installed rc on my laptop
<tseng> its elite
<grayman> how so?
<tseng> zarro boogs
<Diablo-D3> I hate that
<ogra> Diablo-D3, universe still has bugs, dont worry
<Diablo-D3> no, I meant the way that phrase is spelled
<tseng> hm sid has xorg?
<Diablo-D3> its so... so.... fucktarded.
<Diablo-D3> tseng: yup
<tseng> it is upgrading me to 6.8.2 :)
<Diablo-D3> well, I think it does.
* dholbach gets cracking on UniverseFTBFS
<tseng> dholbach: dude you need a script to find stuff that has been fixed since
<tseng> i think there are way too many failures to validate
<dholbach> i took the builds from september and october
<ogra> dholbach, apt-get.org done ? :)
<dholbach> sorry, if it causes grief
<tseng> apt-get never done
<dholbach> ogra: what sort of interrogation is this? :)
<tseng> dholbach: ask him about edubuntu
<sistpoty> dholbach: should we list packages we are touching somewhere?
<tseng> dholbach: or screensavers
<tseng> dholbach: REVENGE
<Diablo-D3> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/ardour/+bug/2924
<Diablo-D3> re:a rdour bug
* ogra hides
<dholbach> sistpoty: i just did a tiny note on them
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: I'm working on it.
<Diablo-D3> er, hey crimsun
<Diablo-D3> be-in-every-channel-on-freenode much?
<sistpoty> dholbach: maybe notes on each arch-page isn't a good idea? what about noting on UniverseFTBFS?
<dholbach> sistpoty: that leaves the problem of cleaning-up-after-one-has-fixed-stuff
<dholbach> sistpoty: but it's worth a try
<sistpoty> ok... will you edit the page or shall i?
<dholbach> sistpoty: go ahead :)
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: I'm guessing universe packages cant automatically add other universe packages?
<crimsun> correct
<grayman> how -that- works?
<dholbach> sistpoty: it'd be great, if we'd get the top 25% fixed (or the stuff in there)
<sistpoty> yep... i'm already working  on it ;)
<sistpoty> what is bold in wiki?
<dholbach> '''BLA'''
<sistpoty> ok, thx
<sistpoty> wiki updated... just a quick thing though ;)
<bddebian> Heya gang, sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> bddebian (god): there is much work todo: UniverseFTBFS (wiki)
<slomo> hm
<slomo> why are there binary packages listed on the FTBFS pages? wouldn't it be better to list the source packages?
<bddebian> sistpoty: Aye, I heard :-(
* sistpoty is hoping for a wonder
<sistpoty> bddebian: now i know where i saw that stupid error from earlier that evening: xosview :(
<dholbach> slomo: popcon has binary packages
<slomo> dholbach: but this way we have many "duplicates" there :(
<slomo> well, i'll fix gst-ffmpeg for ppc...
<dholbach> slomo: i wanted to make it easier to concentrate on the top 20%-25%
<bddebian> Who's gonna send me a PPC and amd64 machine?? ;-P
<Diablo-D3> bddebian is a false god!
<sistpoty> hehe... some diabolic statements? :P
* bddebian never claimed to be a god :-)
* bddebian is an idiot
<Diablo-D3> that goes in my quote files.
* dholbach hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> Heh
<sistpoty> <-- out for a cigarette
<Diablo-D3> in return, here is a quote
<Diablo-D3> <demoneyes> thanks to outsourcing, "too many chiefs and not enough indians" takes on all new meaning
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: ardour-gtk actually builds just fine, it just needs to be given back
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: english please?
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: the buildds are doing something funky.
<crimsun> it built just fine here on amd64 and i386
<Diablo-D3> meh =(
* Diablo-D3 ponders just building it himself then.
<crimsun> lamont__: any possibility you could give-back ardour? It builds fine here on both i386 and amd64 yet fails on the buildds.
* Diablo-D3 tries to remember how to do that
<lamont__> crimsun: not where I can do it for about another 3 hours... can you ping me when I'm back to being lamont?
<crimsun> lamont__: yes, thanks.
<bddebian> Heya tritium, welcome to the "fun" :-)
<tritium> hi bddebian.  What's the fun?
<bddebian> tritium: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS :-)
<bddebian> Now get to work. ;-P
<dholbach> tritium knows from last time :)
<dholbach> hey michael :)
<tritium> hi dholbach :)
<tritium> Cool, let me eat some dinner with my wife, and I'll look for some guidance from you, bddebian.  Cool?
<bddebian> Damn you people are misguided ;-)
<tritium> heh, I'll be back soon...
<crimsun> (working on vlc.)
<bddebian> Good man :-)
* bddebian is still fighting with cyphesis-cpp :-(
<dholbach> sistpoty: i added another table
<dholbach> sistpoty: to make sure we're organized
<dholbach> :)
<ColonelKernel> the cflags I put into the kernel yesterday have REAlly made an improvement on my system performance, I want to thank you guys a lot
* ajmitch returns
<sistpoty> dholbach: cool :)
<ColonelKernel> for most other things you just put them in when you do ./configure
<ColonelKernel> I recompiled xchat and tvtime and they are faster too
<bddebian> wb ajmitch
* Diablo-D3 wonders when the kernel got autotools
<sistpoty> wb ajmitch
<ColonelKernel> system startup is a little bit slower, im assuming because the modules are all a bit larger
<ColonelKernel> and it uses more memory too
<ColonelKernel> about 100mb more
<ajmitch> dholbach: so you want us to clean all the junk from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 ?
<dholbach> if anybody has a cleverer list, go ahead
<dholbach> i don't insist on mine
<TMM> ColonelKernel, np
* ajmitch wonders what he should work on first
<ColonelKernel> TMM, video games and everything are faster
<TMM> hey ajmitch
<ColonelKernel> the system itself now starts up gnome and runs apps faster
<TMM> ColonelKernel, good for you! :)
<ajmitch> hello
* ColonelKernel beams with pride
<TMM> ajmitch, I think I fixed all the bugs in my package :)
<ColonelKernel> and YES I used -O3 and it didnt break or hurt ANYTHING
<TMM> what is BTFS anyway?
<TMM> ColonelKernel, -O3 on the kernel source?
<ajmitch> FTBFS? fails to build from source
<TMM> ColonelKernel, usually -O3 won't break anything, it was some of the other more exotic flags that you used
<dholbach> TMM: apt-get install bsdgames; wtf ftbfs
<ColonelKernel> TMM, no ill effects here
<ColonelKernel> not yet anyhow
<TMM> ajmitch, are 'we' supposed to fix that? :)
<ajmitch> TMM: sure
<ajmitch> we're meant to fix as many bugs as we can
<dholbach> but please read the "problems" section
<TMM> so, just apt-get source it and see what fails then?
<dholbach> that makes stuff easier to understand
<dholbach> TMM: there are build logs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test
<TMM> dholbach, where do I find the problem section?
<dholbach> TMM: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<TMM> dholbach, I'm just like a monkey I just click links that people past, and then I get interested ;)
<dholbach> that's a good way to get started :)
* ajmitch is more like a sloth than a monkey
* bddebian kicks ajmitch  ;-)
<bddebian> Heya bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hi bddebian
<bmonty_laptop> nice, first message I see is bddebian kicking ajmitch :)
<bddebian> bmonty_laptop: Tonights fun:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<TMM> so, the thing is: first check if the package is not in main, then see if it is perhaps a binary package and then see the buildlog, then fix?
<fredix> slomo: hi slomo are you here ?
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: I deserve it, I'm lazy
<slomo> fredix: sure
<bddebian> ajmitch: STOP SAYING THAT!!
<fredix> slomo: many thanks about your new upload of ruby-gnome2
<slomo> fredix: np :) it fixed a problem with alexandria too ;)
<ajmitch> bddebian: why?
<TMM> I think I struck gold immediately :)
<fredix> slomo: are you in the muturubyteam ?
<TMM> rox-filer is said to fail, but there is no buildlog?
<slomo> fredix: nope
<dholbach> TMM: apt-cache showsrc rox-filer
<dholbach> TMM: it gives you the "source package"
<dholbach> TMM: often, more than one binary package is built from one source package
<dholbach> TMM: 'rox' is what you're looking for
<fredix> slomo: maybe it'll should be interest you
<TMM> dholbach, so it might not fail to build at all then?
* sistpoty needs to go to bed... gn8 everyone
<ogra> night sistpoty
<slomo> fredix: yes i already thought about it... maybe when i know more about ruby as i do now ;)
<TMM> dholbach, ok... mind if I pester you a tad more? :)
<bmonty_laptop> wow, I didn't think there were this many packages that are FTBFS
<TMM> the build-log for helix-player is from 24-jul and it complains about missing sourcepackages (x-dev for one, but also gtk and atk packages)
<TMM> that doesn't make sense
<slomo> ajmitch: were you the one who has an old g3? i have something i need to test on a non-altivec powerpc...
<ajmitch> bmonty_laptop: there aren't, quite a few can be dropped from the list
<fredix> slomo: ok ;) i go to sleep, thanks
<slomo> fredix: good night :)
<ajmitch> slomo: yes, and I don't have access to it right now
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because you aren't
<slomo> ajmitch: hm... too bad :( so let's wait for bugreports after release ;)
<ajmitch> slomo: maybe in a day or two
<dholbach> bddebian: 483 on those lists should be your favourite :)
<slomo> is someone here who has a x86 without mmx?
<bddebian> dholbach: Hey, that shouldn't be there.. :-)
<bddebian> I think that's main anyway isn't it?
<dholbach> bddebian: yeah, in some cases it's a bit of reasearch
<dholbach> bddebian: popcon is a bit unreliable about main/universe stuff
* bddebian forces cyphesis-cpp to build with g++-3.4
<dholbach> and in some other cases source packages have binary packages in universe and in main
<TMM> slomo, I've got one, pentium 120
<bddebian> OK, now syphulus-cpp is on my list of packages that SUCK
<bddebian> Err cyphesis.. ;-)
<slomo> TMM: can you test gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg for me? for example play a divx with totem-gstreamer
<Diablo-D3> wow
<Diablo-D3> takes awhile to compile ardour
<bddebian> Should a rebuild be -0build1 or .1build1 ?
<dholbach> bddebian: what was it before?
<bddebian> Oh, nm it was 1.3-3.1 so 1.3-3.1build1
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> 1.3, 3rd debian revision, 1st NMU, 1st ubuntu rebuild ;)
* ajmitch is glad we don't use versioning like linspire
<bddebian> Should we add .desktop files while we are at it?? ;-)
<ajmitch> they have an example like 2:1:1.0-0.0.2003.10.23-2-9.4.1
<dholbach> bddebian: that'd be 1.3-3.1build1desktop1
<ajmitch> which is just *scary*
<ogra> bddebian, sure
<ajmitch> dholbach: huh?
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<dholbach> bddebian: so elmo knows which one to reject ;)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> BTW, if anyone looks at zorp, forget it, it's unfixable
<dholbach> bddebian: debian fixes? something in their bts?
<bddebian> ogra: Sure what?  .desktop files
<bddebian> dholbach: Unless the newer stuff comes in from upstream it's unbuildable with the version of libzorpll
<ogra> bddebian, yes
<dholbach> bddebian: one patch in debian's BTS, and a newer debian revision
* tritium is back
<bddebian> IIRCC, zorp 2.x will NOT build with libzorpll 3.x.  IT would have to be updated with zorp 3.x stuff
<TMM> slomo, on a p120? are you insane? :)
<dholbach> bddebian: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=301618 :)
<dholbach> bddebian: looks like that'd be a solution
<bddebian> dholbach: I don't see 3.0.3 on packages.d.o though??
<dholbach> bddebian: new upstream version
<bddebian> Oh aye
<TMM> slomo, there's no ubuntu on that machine now, I'll try installing it tomorrow, I really don't feel like doing that now
<ajmitch> does anyone use zorp? :)
<tritium> bddebian, I'll take a look at xfig
<dholbach> be sure you all check how the last test builds and the normal archive builds went (and when they were) :)
<Diablo-D3> uh
<Diablo-D3> crimsun
<Diablo-D3> the srcpkg ardour doesnt build libardour0
<tritium> dholbach, bddebian: so we first just want to check if the package will be from source now without any changes?
<tritium> s/be/build
<bddebian> tritium: sure
<bddebian> ajmitch: Doubtfully ;-)
* bddebian is working on xshogi
* ajmitch is not working
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: it doesn't need to.
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: notice that's not one of ardour_0.9beta29-5ubuntu1's binary packages.
<Diablo-D3> er wtf then
<Diablo-D3> the one in universe right now needs it =P
<crimsun> doesn't matter, there's a newer source version
<crimsun> it just needs to be given-back, which will happen in a few hours
<dholbach> good night guys... it's alreday 3 again :)
<tritium> Good night dholbach :)
<crimsun> cya
<dholbach> see you :)
<tritium> I can't figure out which package is supposed to provide stddef.h (included by /usr/include/bits/types.h, line 31)
<tritium> apt-file lists several packages that have a stddef.h, but not in the standard include dirs
<bmonty_laptop> tritium: how about linux-kernel-headers??
<crimsun> what bmonty said
<Lathiat> tseng: ya
<Kyral> its in headers :D
<crimsun> gcc-4.0 and gcc-3.4 each provide it for internal use
<tritium> thanks, guys.  I'll just need to modify it to look in /usr/include/linux for that file then
<bddebian> I stuck in something for a while but I'll bbiab
<doko_> tritium: no, gcc should find it on it's own
<tritium> doko_, okay, I'll see what happens.  I added linux-kernel-headers as a build-dependency.  Thanks.
<doko_> tritium: that's wrong. linux-kernel-headers is in build-essential
<tritium> Okay, and I still get the error.
<doko_> tritium: does a minimal testcase (#include <stddef.h>, gcc -c) work?
<tritium> doko_, after logging into my pbuilder chroot?
<tritium> doko_, it works
<doko_> tritium: so find out, why your original example doesn't work. maybe use gcc -H
<tritium> I'll try, thanks.
<tritium> bddebian, please query me when you're back
* lamont is back
* lamont tries to remember what someone was asking him to do earlier, completely fails...
<lamont> anybody have scrollback from around 2 hours ago?
<Diablo-D3> bleh
<Diablo-D3> ever been so tired that you just feel dead?
<Lathiat> lamont: yeh
<ajmitch> 13:00 < crimsun> lamont__: any possibility you could give-back ardour? It builds fine here on both i386 and amd64 yet fails on the buildds.
<Lathiat> crimsun
<Lathiat> right
<lamont> danke
<lamont> Checking for C header file alsa/asoundlib.h... no
<lamont> that was that bug... lessee how it does
<lamont> IOW, given-back
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hi
<lamont> same failure
<bddebian> Heya gang, hows' it coming?
<bddebian> tritium: Still here?
<tritium> bddebian, yes, still here
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bddebian> tritium: Did you need something homey?
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<tritium> bddebian, yeah, perhaps a little assitance?  I'll query...
<bddebian> OK
<ajmitch> the master at work.. :)
<bddebian> Yeah right
<tritium> Thanks bddebian
<seth_k|lappy> hi bddebian
<seth_k|lappy> </7hourdelay>
<bddebian> Heya seth_k|lappy :-)
<hub> what is elmo email address?
<hub> to ask for a sync from Debian?
<bddebian> hub: james.troup@u.c
<hub> bddebian: ok thanks
<Amaranth> damn, i was about to guess jtroup@ubuntu.com
<bddebian> I think that works too but I'm not sure
<hub> ok thanks
<hub> I was about to package a couple of things, but debian have them already
<seth_k|lappy> will we get Fx 1.5b2 in universe as a separate version or anything for breezy? (just released tonight)
<Diablo-D3> yargh
<Diablo-D3> reeaaall nice
<Diablo-D3> the ardour I built segfaults everytime I try to add a new buss
* Diablo-D3 is hoping the good build doesnt do this
<crimsun> then try 0.99 from experimental
<crimsun> I can't possibly ask for a 0.99 sync from experimental this late in the cycle, however
<Diablo-D3> well
<Diablo-D3> ardour is pretty useless with that broken
<crimsun> and it'd really help if you could get a bt on the segfault
<Diablo-D3> so I could ask for such a thing
<Diablo-D3> I dont know if its my build or not
<Diablo-D3> but its really easy to reproduce
<tritium> crimsun, do you think it's too late to request a sync of xfig from testing/unstable to fix a ftbfs?
<Diablo-D3> new session, then add new track/bus, then ask for a new stereo bus
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: please obtain a bt from gdb and paste it into the malone report
<Diablo-D3> instant segfault
<crimsun> tritium: absolutely not
<crimsun> syncing from sid is fair game imo right up til the 12th
* Diablo-D3 rebuilds ardour first.
<tritium> cool, thanks
<Diablo-D3> just to make sure it wasnt a random fluke
<bddebian> OK, I'm making stupid ass mistakes now, must be time for bed.  Gnight folks..
<crimsun> 'night bddebian
<tritium> Good night, bddebian
<tritium> Thanks for your help tracking down that problem
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: but yeah, if this bug is real, you'd pretty much have to push 0.99 from experimental
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: otherwise ardour is dead useless.
<bddebian> tritium: Anytime brudda
<tritium> :)
<crimsun> Diablo-D3: no, we'll find the bug from the bt and backport the fix
<crimsun> syncing from experimental one week before freeze is just madness
<Diablo-D3> YES! ITS MADDDNNESS! WAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
<Diablo-D3> I should run my own distro.
<Diablo-D3> First rule of my distro: no stable releases, stable releases are for pansies.
<crimsun> that's what the bleeding edge (grumpy) is for
<crimsun> it's slated for parallel "devel" with dapper
<Diablo-D3> wait, we have names for breezy+1?
<crimsun> dapper is breezy+1
<crimsun> grumpy is dapper+experimental
<crimsun> at least in theory
<Diablo-D3> btw, you know why I hate ardour sometimes?
<Diablo-D3> its gtk... but written in c++.
<Diablo-D3> /that makes no sense/
<Diablo-D3> and it uselessly triples my compile time -_-`
<Diablo-D3> I think compiling c++ is the only thing I can say is slow no matter how fast my computer is
<Diablo-D3> </rant>
<Diablo-D3> argh! go! faster! now!
* Diablo-D3 wonders if he poored nitro on his cpu, it'd go faster
<Diablo-D3> hey crimsun
<Diablo-D3> my binary should be identical to the new one, right?
<vol0za> Hello, I'd like to get involved in the Ubuntu community. Can anybody help me start? I have some coding/Linux experience.
<Yagisan> vol0za: what would you like to do ?
<vol0za> Actually, I don't know what are the possibilities. As of now, I would prefer coding in Python or C++, but I know that my ideas can be far away from the reality.
<Yagisan> vol0za: no worries - I'm not a MOTU - but I can offer some suggestions
<Yagisan> fixing bugs listed here https://launchpad.net/malone is appreciated
<vol0za> any suggestions are wellcome
<Yagisan> vol0za: I'm not a MOTU - I'm just a "freelancer" at the moment
<Yagisan> vol0za: what areas are you interested in ?
<Yagisan> eg myself -  I have an interest in games an security
<Yagisan> so I tend to try and help with games or security stuff
<vol0za> laptop + desktop
<vol0za> I'm using Ubuntu for all my work but I'm still missing some features that will make my life easier and I'm trying ways to help somehow.
<Yagisan> :) - I also use Ubuntu for work - I'm tring to bend ltsp to my will at the moment
<Yagisan> what are the missing features ?
<vol0za> by desktop I mean the gnome-thingies such as totem etc.
<vol0za> mentioning the totem, the mozilla plugin is still not very functional
<Diablo-D3> heh
<Yagisan> vol0za: using totem as an example - there are several bugs in malone
<Yagisan> could you fix that ?
<vol0za> who knows ? :)
<vol0za> so, what's the usual process when fixing a bug?
<Yagisan> vol0za: usually first file that bug in malone for universe/multiverse :)
<Yagisan> then apt-get source evil-broken-package (from either warty, hoary or breezy depending on where the package is)
<vol0za> and if you had some 5 minutes could you give me some short intro to the overall structures here, malone, ... whatever
<Yagisan> I can try - but I know I'm not the best person for it
<Yagisan> for main/restricted bugs are at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com - that is generally canonicals problem - but there are exceptions
<Yagisan> and if you fix a bug the will be happy
<Yagisan> s/the/they
<vol0za> :)
<Yagisan> universe and multiverse (ie everything else) is looked after by the masochists here
<Yagisan> I'll see if I can find the stats for a top masochist for you
<vol0za> I'm curious
<crimsun> barry (bddebian) and sh (stephen)'re up there
<vol0za> I have just created my launchpad account and my karma says 0. At least I'm not negative.
<jsgotangco> everyone starts at 0
<Yagisan> hmm - my link is slow today
<vol0za> can we continue in the bug-process show down? I would try I it myself and correct me if I'm wrong.
<vol0za> someone has to file a bug, after it it has to be confirmed and someone assigns it.
<Yagisan> sure - to actually build the packages you will need a pbuilder set up
<Yagisan> there is a howto in the wiki
<Yagisan> generally any bug assigned to MOTU is fair game I believe,
<Yagisan> as bugs tend to be assigned to groups, not individuals
<vol0za> haven't heard anything about it, but I suppose that I should be able to find info on that
<crimsun> any bug in universe/multiverse is game for any of us
<Yagisan> be back soon - lunch with family
<vol0za> wow, so multiple people are working on a single bug and they compete or what?
<crimsun> vol0za: not really, it's a team effort
<crimsun> 30 people for 16000+ packages...
<vol0za> bye yagisan and thank you for intro
<vol0za> sorry, my ISP plays a game with me
<tritium> good night :)
<crimsun> 'night
<zakame> hi all! :D
<thesaltydog> since yestarday, each time I post a comment on a malone bug, I am receiving a mail from <universe-bugs-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com> stating that my "mail" is being held... ??
<Lathiat> thesaltydog: yeh dw about that
<Lathiat> thesaltydog: its because mails to universe-bugs are being held for moderation (which is rwhere reports about all motu bugs go)
<Lathiat> and they changed the from: of the emaisl to be th epeerson changign things
<Treenaks> Lathiat: yes, and the MAIL FROM:<> too, breaking some RFCs
<Treenaks> Lathiat: (i.e. 2821)
<Treenaks> It also breaks for people using SPF-enabled domains
<thesaltydog> Lathiat, but I am not sending mails.. just adding comments on launchpad.
<Treenaks> thesaltydog: launchpad sends the mails
<Treenaks> thesaltydog: as you, but in the wrong way
<Lathiat> thesaltydog: launchpad sends the mails for you
<zakame> hmmm, does closing bugs in debian/changelog close malone bugs?
<Treenaks> Lathiat: with the wrong MAIL FROM: SMTP envelope address
<talios> hey there - question on the squeak smalltalk packages - theres a manpage for an inisqueak script but no sign of the script itself - anyone able to look into it?  or know about it?
<Lathiat> talios: could you file a bug on launchpad.net/malone/ ?
<talios> yep
<Lathiat> thanks
* talios assumes I'll need to create an account :)
<Lathiat> talios: which package specifically?
<Lathiat> squeak-sources or squeak-vm ?
<talios> not sure - I'd hazad a guess at squeak-sources
* talios tries to remember how to query debian packge info.
<Tonio-> hi there
<talios> Lathiat, entered.
<Lathiat> talios: cheers, bgu number?
<talios> 2930
<talios> I'm thinking it'll be the squeak-vm package as the manpage talks about the squeak/inisqueak binaries ( and squeak is the vm)
<Lathiat> thanks
<zakame> hi again
* mikhail^ is away: nature calls...
<thesaltydog> is there any MOTU who can sync the latest release of Baobab from debian to breezy? The current version in breezy is quit outdated..
<thesaltydog> breezy has v.1.0.1 and debian v.1.2.0
<thesaltydog> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/b/baobab/baobab_1.2.0-1/changelog
<crimsun> at the moment our priority is fixing FTBFS source
<thesaltydog> Understand..
<thesaltydog> suggestions?
<zyga> hi
<dholbach> hellas
<Treenaks> d-man
<dholbach> i suppose you're talking about me? ;)
<Treenaks> dholbach: hi :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | First priority: FIX REMAINING TRANSITIONS! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions | It's the BUGDAY! | It's the FTBFS day! http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS! :)
<ivoks> dholbach: no such page :)
<ivoks> remove ! :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | REVU up again: http://revu.tauware.de | First priority: FIX REMAINING TRANSITIONS! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Transitions | It's the BUGDAY! | It's the FTBFS day! http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS - Yeah! :)
<dholbach> :-p
<Lathiat> ok
<Lathiat> time to get cracking
<dholbach> wooohooo
<Lathiat> hrm transitions
<Lathiat> i should check up on glu transition
<Lathiat> can i do a build-dep rdepends?
<ivoks> yup
<ivoks> let's make this happen
<dholbach> Lathiat: you want to use grep-dctrl
<dholbach> Lathiat: and ajmitch is our grep-dctrl-hero
<Lathiat> hm ok
<Lathiat> i'll fiddle
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> my bat status droped from 40% to 3% in one second
<Lathiat> ivoks: you have a couple f**ked cells :(
<ivoks> you think?
<Lathiat> was that a sarcastic comment or a question
<ivoks> question
<Lathiat> that or your acpi is fucked
<ivoks> couse this started to happen after one acpi upgrade
<Lathiat> yeh could be fucked DSDT or whatever it is
<Lathiat> try a hoary livecd or something
<ivoks> and laptop is almost new (not even a year)
<dholbach> ivoks: could you try http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/gnome-applets packages and see if they behave better for you?
<dholbach> i guess it'll be to late to get that stuff in for breezy
<dholbach> but for dapper we should
<Lathiat> dholbach: wassit fix?
<ivoks> dholbach: this isn't related to gnome
<dholbach> ivoks: ahhh ok... i thought it was a battery applet display problem
<ivoks> dholbach: /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/status shows in one moment 30000
<ivoks> dholbach: and then in other 5000
<dholbach> because it has some issues
<ivoks> when i think more about it... it isn't a linux problem
<ivoks> since led starts to blink when that happens
<ivoks> so i guess, by bat is crapy
<dholbach> oh ok
<Lathiat> ivoks: well
<Lathiat> ivoks: it can be
<Lathiat> ivoks: if the 40% is wrong
<Lathiat> ivoks: you may be able to gauge better on how long your battery lasts compared to how long it used to lsat
<Lathiat> e.g. ar eyou actually getting a 35% drop in life
<ivoks> Lathiat: yup...
<ivoks> we check that out next time
<Lathiat> ok
<ivoks> it's hard to messure since i put lap in sleep all the time
<ivoks> it's never off
<Lathiat> measure it some time :)
<ivoks> but i think i have a real life-drop :/
<Lathiat> ivoks: well if your on a year you might still be in warranty
<ivoks> ah... dell never again
<ivoks> Lathiat: warranty is for US only :(
<Lathiat> dell hey?
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> i have 2 dells
<Lathiat> theyre both great machines
<Lathiat> inspiron 8600, precision m20
<ivoks> mine is 8600 :)
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> my 8600 is great
<ivoks> wana trade for battery? :)
<Lathiat> i did have to get the lcd replaced 3 times tho
<Lathiat> ivoks: you can get batteries cheap on ebay
<ivoks> Lathiat: yeah, i could sell mine on ebay too :)
<Lathiat> ivoks: heh
<ivoks> there is no more syncing from debian, right?
<Lathiat> should be fine for universe?
<Lathiat> if relaly needed tho
<ivoks> fixes ftbs :)
<Lathiat> sounds good to me
<ivoks> all right...
<Lathiat> what pakage anyway
<ivoks> ttt
<ivoks> sync won't help
<ivoks> yeah! it builds
<ivoks> but, is it usable... :)
<ivoks> it is! :)
<ivoks> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> dholbach: we just upload it or it needs special revision?
<dholbach> what are you talking about?
<ivoks> ftbs fixing
<dholbach> go ahead, if it builds and works for you, i trust your judgment
<ivoks> can i just upload it or i have to ping elmo or anyone?
<ivoks> since we are close to release
<dholbach> it is universe, isnt it?
<ivoks> yes
<dholbach> go ahead
<ivoks> ok
<pef> hello
<janimo> hi dholbach
<dholbach> morning jani
<janimo> deskbar-applet can be taken down from revu, it's uploaded by mithrandir
<ivoks> dholbach: there are some packages on the list that builds without problems...
<dholbach> ivoks: some of them didnt build in the test rebuilds and got fixed afterwards - sorry for the noise, then - just remove them from the list, if they built in the archive
<ivoks> ok
<dholbach> ivoks: for next release, i'll have a cleverer script
<ivoks> np
<dholbach> ivoks: i had the idea we should collect clever scripts in a motu-tools package
<dholbach> so everybody could improve them and we all had the tools to make a good job
<Lathiat> dholbach: mmm, ajmitch and i have a little bzr repo with a few usefull tools
<dholbach> Lathiat: wouldnt it be better to have them in the archive?
<dholbach> Lathiat: so we'd "release them with documentation and everything" every now and then?
<Lathiat> sure
<Lathiat> just mentioning we have one
<dholbach> yeah... that's cool
<ivoks> gcc-4.0 universe ftbs (?) blink blink :)
<dholbach> we do SUCH a good job :)
<Lathiat> haha ivoks
* Lathiat patiently waits for pbuilder to finish creating
<Lathiat> the real bitch with pbuilder is if the apt sources download filas
<Lathiat> like when the archive is broken
<Lathiat> (which happens far too often)
<Lathiat> the whole thing aborts and you ahve to start again
<Lathiat> *fails
* ivoks user sniffit for years
<ivoks> never tried iptraf
<ivoks> what a fool I was
* Lathiat laughs
<Lathiat> bwm is good to
<Lathiat> as is dstat
<Lathiat> dstat -a 10
<dholbach> Lathiat: what do you think of bwm-ng?
<Lathiat> dholbach: havent tried it
<Lathiat> is it packaged?
<dholbach> yes
* Lathiat tries it
<dholbach> a friend of mine wrote it, so i packaged it ;)
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> well for a start the default interval is 0.5s
<Lathiat> which is silly b ecause mroe often than not that ends up in inaccurate readings
<Lathiat> youll get 300K/s for hafl the second
<Lathiat> and 0 the other half
<Lathiat> (meaning 150K/s)
<Lathiat> and i just saw taht happen
<Lathiat> happens with netspeed applet too
<ivoks> iptraf rulez
<Lathiat> ivoks: indeed, how the hell did you not knwo about it? ;p
<dholbach> Lathiat: we/you could change that interval in a patch :)
<ivoks> Lathiat: i did know about it, but never used it
<Lathiat> dholbach: mmm, bwm-ng is good
<Lathiat> dholbach: it seems actually accurate, bwm had a habbit of not being accurate
<ivoks> Lathiat: my tools were ettercap and sniffit
<Lathiat> ivoks: :)
<ivoks> now are those + iptraf :)
<ivoks> of course, nmap too
<ivoks> Lathiat: bwm-ng -t 1 :)
<Lathiat> ivoks: you can increase it when its runnign too
<Lathiat> but the default being 0.5s is silly :)
<ivoks> ah well...
<ivoks> poker3d builds too :/ (noise, noise, noise :)
<ivoks> ah, time to go...
<dholbach> have a nice day :)
<ivoks> 2.4.27 kernel finally build on 386 :)
<ivoks> i'll get back to ftbs later this day
<ivoks> later today... urgh
<dholbach> could somebody check if the package fixes (not the NEW stuff) on REVU got uploaded?
<dholbach> pef: around?
<pef> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> pef: could you elaborate on the kvpnc update?
<dholbach> pef: does it have fixes we want to have?
<pef> dholbach: nothing critical as far as I looked in the latest cvs entries
<dholbach> pef: you think it is wise to get it in now?
<pef> dholbach: the 0.8 release does not correct critical things
<dholbach> janimo: had a look at xfce4-taskmanager - could you tell the maintainer to take care of the stuff i noted?
<pef> dholbach: just minors changes and fixes : http://home.gna.org/kvpnc/en/changelog.html
<dholbach> pef: does the old release work fine or should we do the upgrade to make things nicer for people? or wait for dapper rather?
<janimo> dholbach, will do thanks
<janimo> he's markuman btw
<dholbach> janimo: ahhh ok
<pef> dholbach: is it an expensive process to upgrade to the last version ?
<dholbach> pef: wow that's a load of *fixes*
<dholbach> pef: no, not expansive, but if it breaks things, that's bad so short before release
<dholbach> janimo: is markuman well-integrated into the xfce team?
<janimo> dholbach, he's new
<janimo> about a week old :)
<pef> dholbach: unfortunately I cannot test all features (cisco tunnels, openswan, etc), so I can't be sure something isn't broken
<janimo> and this is his first package
<dholbach> janimo: then try to integrate him into the team nicely :)
<janimo> dholbach, I am ;)
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> pef: could you talk to riddell about the update then?
<pef> dholbach: I will do it right now
<dholbach> ok
<pef> dholbach: he will look between two kde compilations ;) I will keep you informated
<dholbach> pef: if he's fine with it, he can just upload it
<dholbach> pef: and MAN take care of becoming a MOTU (attending the meetings) - we WANT you :)
<pef> :] 
<pef> next motu meeting is post release, isn't it ?
<dholbach> i rather meant the CC meeting (to become a member) and the TB meeting to get uploading privileges (and be a MOTU), but it would be nice to have you in MOTU meetings as well :)
<dholbach> and yes, it's post-release
<dholbach> janimo: get another approval of xubuntu-artwork - you have mine
<Lathiat> revu?
<dholbach> yes
<pef> dholbach: I would be glad to be a MOTU, but I'm not sure to have enough time
<dholbach> pef: you do more work than some approved MOTUs
<janimo> dholbach, thanks :)
<dholbach> de rien :)
<janimo> you rock
<dholbach> i try to do my best :)
<pef> dholbach: ooh..if you think i'm able to become a MOTU, I will seriously think about it :)
<janimo> don't forget to sleep though :)
<Lathiat> haha janimo
<dholbach> pef: Riddell will be grateful to have you working in the kubuntu world
* Riddell will be
<pef> :D
<pef> I'm not very skilled in c++, I think it's a big problem to help with qt/kde
<Lathiat> nah you just sortof muddle your way through
<Treenaks> most kde devs do 8)
<Lathiat> so how do i make the xubuntu usplash work isntead of the defaul tone?
<Lathiat> Treenaks: haha
<Lathiat> hrm, well the image is stretched, and doesnt seem to have an area for text or the progress bar
<janimo> Lathiat, wait till it's uploaded
<Lathiat> till whats uploaded?
<janimo> then do dpkg-reconfigure --config usplash-artwork.so
<pef> dholbach: [13:42]  <dholbach> i rather meant the CC meeting (to become a member) and the TB meeting to get uploading privileges (and be a MOTU), but it would be nice to have you in MOTU meetings as well :) I'm already and approved Ubuntu member, so I can apply to MOTU membership  now ?
<Lathiat> oh i seee how the usplash artwork is changed, it uses alternatives
<janimo> xubuntu-artwork is not yet uplaoded
<Lathiat> janimo: im looking at it from revu
<dholbach> pef yeah
<janimo> oh ok
<Lathiat> you needed a second approval no?
<janimo> Lathiat, yes :)
<janimo> so build the deb and install it
<Lathiat> i did :)
<janimo> then dpkg-reconfigure should do it
<janimo> or maybe a new initramfs too? I forgot :(
<Lathiat> yeh new initramfs
<Lathiat> brb
<janimo> dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r `
<janimo> but first set it with alternatives
<janimo> Lathiat beware it's not too nice now but there's anew image pending in the queue
<Lathiat> janimo: ok package is fine
<Lathiat> janimo: image isnt great
<Lathiat> janimo: if theres a new one, rock :)
<Lathiat> when can i see the new one?
<dholbach> Riddell: could it be that everything in the KDE world is built with --rpath on amd64?
<Lathiat> hrm, wesnoth 1.0
<Riddell> dholbach: if could be but that sounds slightly insane
<Riddell> dholbach: you'll be pleased to know I just took delivery of an amd64 5 minutes ago so I'll be able to investigate
<dholbach> ROCK
<dholbach> Riddell: it's just that i saw it in nearly all the kde stuff i reviewed
<Lathiat> --rpath?
<dholbach> Riddell: the kde/qt buildsystem gives you a --disable-rpath (which is good), it just doesnt seem to work on amd64
<dholbach> Lathiat: search for binary-or-shlibs-defines-rpath (which is the corresponding lintian warning)
<Lathiat> siretart: about?
<Lathiat> siretart: my password isnt working for revu, and gpg decryption reveals nothing
<janimo> Lathiat, http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/5786/usplash1jn.png
<janimo> it is not very much like edu/ku but close
<Lathiat> janimo: oh, sexy
<janimo> will let the artist know and if needed he'll tweak it
<Lathiat> janimo: might be nice to add the little progress bar backgroudn like in the official one now
<janimo> Jozsef Mak of the art team
<janimo> hmmisn't the blak space the scroll background?
<Lathiat> yeh but theres a progress bar
<Lathiat> and in the official ojen
<Lathiat> one
<Lathiat> it now has a background
<Lathiat> outlining it
<Lathiat> (not essential, but nice)
<Lathiat> just gives an idea of where the progress bar is progrssing to
<janimo> aha I'll take a look thanks
<janimo> and thanks for reviewing it ;)
<Lathiat> nps, im happy with it
<Lathiat> i cant comment on revu tho
<Lathiat> since my accts borked
<janimo> well if you vote for it it's ok I think, we have these logs to prove it :)
<Lathiat> janimo: yep
<ivoks> oh :)
<ivoks> Rejected: Unknown distribution `breey'.
<ivoks> :)
<janimo> ivoks, you're already anticipating beyond dapper :)
<ivoks> hehe yeah
<Lathiat> ivoks: haha
<ivoks> guys, i'm way ahead :)
<ivoks> there, fixed netatalk is in :)
* ivoks works too much with netatalk to leave broken netatalk in favourite distro :)
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> so, wesnoth 1.0
<Lathiat> seems to work fine
<Lathiat> our version isnt *too* far off it
<Lathiat> anyone violently disagree to syncing it?
<ivoks> Lathiat: it someone does, he would be gently silent :)
<Lathiat> dholbach: ?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: ?
<dholbach> how much testing did it get?
<Yagisan> Lathiat: need wesnoth 1.0
<Lathiat> dholbach: nothing i just started looking at it, it was released 2nd oct
<Lathiat> it compiles etc fine
<Lathiat> rus fine, plays fine
<Lathiat> *runs
<Lathiat> i'll check debbugs
<Yagisan> must be able to play online
<Lathiat> Yagisan: online play in 1.0?
<Yagisan> esp for the ubuntuforums wesnoth matches
<Lathiat> 1 bug about not being able to change language ingame
<Lathiat> but thats hardly critical
<Yagisan> Lathiat: usually when the version changes - it won't connect to online servers
<dholbach> Yagisan: did you test wesnoth 1.0?
<Yagisan> dholbach: when it downloads I will
<dholbach> it'd be cool to put the packages up, so yagisan (wesnoth pro) can test it
<Yagisan> dholbach: I suck so bad it's not funny (and my isp capped me :( _
<Lathiat> Yagisan: do you want the compiled packages?
<Yagisan> Lathiat: source (I'm amd64)
<Lathiat> packages.debian.org/wesnoth
<Lathiat> i made no changes
<Yagisan> I think wesnoth should be part of ubuntu-desktop
<Yagisan> :)
<Lathiat> haha
<Yagisan> thanks
<sistpoty> hi folks
<dholbach> hey sistpoty
* ivoks hates promise
<ivoks> i will have to install redhat9
<dredg> so very very thankful we're working on rolling out ubuntu here
<dholbach> :)
<dredg> the very notion of running the local highly customised but still redhat9 distribution fills me with the fear
<ivoks> problem is...
<ivoks> i have this stopid raid controler
<ivoks> from promise
<ivoks> and stopid promise doesn't support 2.6 kernel, nor any other distribution but redhat9 and suse9
<ivoks> their source for driver is... crap
<ivoks> and i don't have time to fix it... i need this machine working yesterday
<Yagisan> ivoks: raid 1, 5 ??
<ivoks> 5
<ivoks> i will try one more thing with debian/ubuntu, and if that doesn't work, redhat it is..
<ivoks> not cause i like redhat, but cause i hate promise
<Yagisan> ivoks: why not copy the data to another box - and use the promise controller as a glorified ide/scsi/sata controller ?
<havoc> ivoks: I've been in that same situation :(
<Yagisan> put in software raid and copy back ?
<ivoks> Yagisan: i can do that with sx6000?
<ivoks> Yagisan: make it simple IDE controler?
<Yagisan> ivoks: I have absolutely no idea
<Yagisan> most seem to be able to work like that though
<ivoks> i2o doesn't work either
<ivoks> :(
<ivoks> Yagisan: i will check out if that's possible
<ivoks> Yagisan: ah... it won't work
<ivoks> Yagisan: it's not that linux doesn't get RAID, but it doesn't detect controller
<ivoks> Yagisan: so, whatever is attached to controller, i can't see it, be it RAID or one single disk
<Yagisan> ivoks: ah - you have the "new" firmware
<ivoks> yep :(
<dholbach> zyga: there are quite some ruby packages on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<zyga> dholbach: checking
<dholbach> zyga: mightr be worth to investigate: 1) if it built later again on our boxes, or 2) if debian fixed it
<ivoks> this is why ubuntu must go prime time...
<zyga> dholbach: s/one source package, may binary packages/...many.../
<dholbach> oh right
<Yagisan> ivoks: ok - from my quick googling it seems that ac was supposed to look at that last september
<Yagisan> ivoks: debian is a no-go ? it has 2.4.x
<zyga> dholbach: uhhh... finding out 'which ruby package ftbfs is not a simple question with all those directories'
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=731 anyone to sponsor upload? ;)
<dholbach> which source package is it?
<dholbach> sistpoty: will look
<sistpoty> dholbach: thx... also it's nothing but an ugly hack  ;)
<ivoks> Yagisan: it's no-go
<ivoks> Yagisan: you have to build that module with debian headers - that i did
<ivoks> Yagisan: but then i get to many unresolved... bla. bla... bla
<ivoks> Yagisan: i'm fighting with that for 5 days now
<Yagisan> ivoks: use a vanilla kernel
<dholbach> zyga: which source package?
<ivoks> Yagisan: i allways do that :)
<ivoks> Yagisan: i tried 5 kernels
<ivoks> Yagisan: that source driver isn't written for vanilla kernel
<ivoks> Yagisan: it's written for redhat/suse kernels
<zyga> dholbach: /me needs to know which packages to look at
<ivoks> Yagisan: old RH, SSE kernels
<ivoks> Yagisan: it's shitty controller and I'm not going to spend a minute more on it
<Yagisan> ivoks: grab the redhat kernel source - patch with promise - make-kpkg
<ivoks> Yagisan: there is no patch :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: what do you use the box for ?
<ivoks> backup
<dholbach> sistpoty: done
<dholbach> zyga: i thought you were interested in ruby stuff
<Yagisan> ivoks: I've just had a look around about that card - and I have only one word for you - ebay
<ivoks> Yagisan: :)
<zyga> dholbach: I am - I'm just not familiar with finding out exactly which packages I need to look at yet :D
<sistpoty> dholbach: thx :)
* Yagisan is glad he uses software raid 5
<zoot_> hi! i'm trying to get kiosk mode working on the standard xfce-4.2.2 install on breezy, but adding [xfce4-panel] \nCustomizePanel=root in /etc/xdg/xfce4/kiosk/kioskrc has no effect. this works on my other slackware boxes. any pointers?
<Yagisan> ivoks: seriously - if you can - get rid of that card. I'm seeing awful stories in the suse forums
<ivoks> Yagisan: it's ugly if you use i2o
<ivoks> it's crap, i know
<ivoks> Yagisan: but I'm not the one to decide.. :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: yep - they go the spec wrong (and their service was crap)
<Yagisan> ivoks: your not ? doesn't anyone listen to your technical advice ?
<ivoks> Yagisan: i created raid5 with 3TB on i386, i can do everything, but this shit... man! :(
<ivoks> Yagisan: sure it does...
<ivoks> well, got to go...
<ivoks> i'm heading to 1GB pipe to d/l rh9 :(
<Yagisan> ivoks: is there data on that system ?
<ivoks> wouldn't it be great if VPN would provide you speed with IP addresses of a host? :)
<ivoks> Yagisan: on what system? with sx6000? no
<Yagisan> ivoks: ah - what sort of load is it expected to handle ?
<ivoks> Yagisan: well...it will be mail server+backup
<Yagisan> ivoks: cpu ?
<ivoks> Yagisan: ah...darn.... RH uses sendmail
<Yagisan> ram ?
<ivoks> fsck!!!!
<Yagisan> ivoks - I have an idea
<ivoks> Yagisan: i will change that shit :)
<havoc> ivoks: any distro can use whatever you want it to
<ivoks> havoc: i know ;)
<havoc> :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: go to petty cash - help youself - go to electronics store - G'day 3 pci ide cards thanks
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> Yagisan: not nad idea
<ivoks> bad
<Yagisan> ivoks: stick in box - ebay promise crap - refill petty cash
<Yagisan> ivoks: make sure the are the two port models - stick everything on master and your sweet
<Yagisan> ivoks: about $150au all up (includes coffee on the way back :) )
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> well, see you guys...
<Yagisan> ivoks: My RAID is 1 PATA + 2 SATA drives - software
<ivoks> thanks for advice
<Yagisan> no worries ivoks
<ivoks> Yagisan: i have couple of RAIDs
<Yagisan> good luck
<ivoks> Yagisan: all kinds, mirror, soft mirror, 5, soft 5
<ivoks> even linear :)
<ivoks> bye
<Yagisan> ivoks: I'm just a small business - I can't afford more (I even have 2 more PATA ports - but the driver is 2.6.13 :( )
<Yagisan> damm - too slow
<zoot_> is crimsun around?
<thesaltydog> ogra, ping
<ogra> thesaltydog, ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> hey bddebian :)
<bddebian> Morning Daniel
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> ok, what is top prio atm? should i go for ftbfs or finish haskell-transition first?
<zoot_> reprise: of those just on, anyone with experience with kiosk mode? (xfce on ubuntu breezy)
<slomo_> crimsun or Riddell: who of you two was working on getting a musicbrainz/libtunepimp package with mp3 support?
<dholbach> sistpoty: whatever you like better :)
<Yagisan> Lathiat, dholbach: wesnoth seems fine to me - I'd sync it (but I'm not a MOTU)
<dholbach> Yagisan: thanks for double-checking
<dholbach> Lathiat: go! :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: ack ;)
<Riddell> slomo_: not I
<Riddell> slomo_: if you did that it would be great
<Yagisan> dholbach: heh - I love the excuse to play :)
<dholbach> "no mom, this time it's for a good cause!"
<dholbach> :)
<sistpoty> btw.: is it safe to fire up two pbuilder in parallel (i.e. pbuildering two packages?)?
<dholbach> sistpoty: i did 4 :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: wow
<Yagisan> dholbach: actually - it's no honey I'm working
<Yagisan> sistpoty: I have 3-4 going at once
<Yagisan> sistpoty: gets choppy around 6
<sistpoty> Yagisan: i think i start with two... my machine is quite old (duron 1300) ;)
<slomo_> Riddell: ok, but someone already told me about that... i'll create universe packages for the two
<slomo_> Riddell: this evening or tomorrow
<dholbach> slomo_: thank you
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty, slomo_, Riddell, Yagisan :-)
<Yagisan> sistpoty: I had one of those (I could do 3 depending on the packages) - It overheated and shorted out :(
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian
<Yagisan> sistpoty: shortly before my duron died - I had it run all of main through pbuilder - that was interesting
<slomo_> dholbach: and it could be even in main... it just can't be shipped with the cds... so i could simply patch the main packages we have to build two binary packages... one with mp3, one without... but that's probably a too big change for breezy now...
<sistpoty> Yagisan: i had mine up to 78 degrees once... but then i decided to buy a better fan ;) (58 degrees currently)
<dholbach> slomo_: if you could discuss this with somebody else in #u-devel, i'd be grateful
<dholbach> slomo_: because i'm not sure about what to ship/not-ship - and main will be tough
<slomo_> dholbach: yes but not now ;) i have to go shopping now... maybe this evening or tomorrow
<dholbach> have fun :)
<slomo_> dholbach: libmad and stuff are already in main... so we have everything we need there ;) we just can't ship it on cds
<Yagisan> sistpoty: I'd had a very hot spell - so that contributed. otherwise my duron was nice
<slomo_> dholbach: thanks :)
<bddebian> Is there a meta packages that provides libXau et al?  Should xlibs-dev provide that?
<Yagisan> anyone have any links on how to set up distcc and ccache with pbuilder ?
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> decision has beed made
<ivoks> Yagisan: thanks for solution :)
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hey
<dholbach> bddebian: libxau-dev
<Lathiat> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> bddebian: use dlocate :)
<bddebian> dholbach: I knew that, I meant a meta package that privided libxau, libxaw, libxext, etc :-)
<Lathiat> dholbach: requested
<dholbach> bddebian: apt-cache rdepends libxau-dev :)
<dholbach> Lathiat: super
<Lathiat> now back to gl transition
<bddebian> Bahh :-)
<Lathiat> whats happening with the haskell (ghc) stuff?
<bddebian> Lathiat: What needs a gl transition yet?
<Lathiat> is ghc5 now bootstrapped?
<Lathiat> bddebian: theres 4 things
<Lathiat> ok, ghc5 hasnt been fixed
<Lathiat> bah
<Lathiat> ghc6 was tho
<Lathiat> bddebian: boson-base, felt, ghc5, cl-sdl, libgtkada2, ncbi-tools6, python-visual, sage
<Lathiat> bddebian: i'm lookign at them all now
<bddebian> Lathiat: Boson-base is severely broken with gcc4
<Lathiat> b	oh?
<Lathiat> bddebian: is there an upstraem fix?
<Lathiat> can it be built with 3.3?
<bddebian> Lathiat: Upstream ftbfs also from what I hear
<Lathiat> mm, no debian fixes
<Lathiat> bddebian: ah, sucky
<bddebian> There is a .11 version upstream I think
<bddebian> I haven't tried with gcc-3.4
<sistpoty> Lathiat: ignore ghc5 it should be morgued... (debian morgues it as well)
<dholbach> anything interesting from: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=boson-base?
<Lathiat> sistpoty: oh ok
<Yagisan> ivoks: glad I could help
<Lathiat> yes, debian C++ transition
<Lathiat> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=327934
<Lathiat> no progress tho
<Lathiat> might be psosible to do g++-3.4
<ivoks> um...
<ivoks> saslauthd has a bug :)
<ivoks> in debian :)
<ivoks> and in ubuntu, too
<crimsun> slomo_: not me, at least not actively
<Yagisan> ivoks: sorry can't help with that one
<zoot_> hi crimsun: tracked you down here :) need help with kiosk mode - can't get it to work (breezy)
<ivoks> Yagisan: haha np
<ivoks> Yagisan: i know that one :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: so what cards are you getting ?
<crimsun> zoot_: general question? -> #ubuntu
<ivoks> Yagisan: didn't thing of that yet...
<zoot_> crimsun: no-one there to help. have kiosk mode running perfectly on slackware boxes, so my config is fine - unless the ubuntu pkg uses a diff location for kioskrc?
<zoot_> this is xfce related
<zoot_> and i see you're down as an admin for xfce on ubuntu ;)
<Yagisan> ivoks: ok - don't get ite8212 based cards - the need a driver from 2.6.13 that was too late to be backported from breezy
<crimsun> zoot_: try asking in #xubuntu-devel, too. I'm sorry to punt on you at the moment like this, but I'm packing for a drive to Atlanta
<zoot_> k, thx
<ivoks> Yagisan: don't worry (i can allways put my own kernel)
<ivoks> does any one knows were i can get rhel4?
<bddebian> dholbach: Are those FTBFs's supposed to be in order of "importance" ?
<Yagisan> ivoks: yeah - but if you need to install on it, it's a pain
<Yagisan> ivoks: rhel4 == white box linux
<crimsun> bddebian: yeah, popularity
<dholbach> bddebian: the information on popcon might be a bit stale, but yes, it's supposed to be ranks
* hubH read planet ubuntu
<hubH> mouahhhh
<ivoks> Yagisan: i know that, but i have rhn account
<Yagisan> ivoks: there is another one too, but I forgot it's name
<hubH> "Get out of jail free"
<bddebian> Guess I'll look at gpdf
<Yagisan> ivoks: oh - I thought you meant for "free"
<dredg> whitebox linux is not a good thing
<dredg> all packages are done by one guy
<dredg> centos is a better free rhel
<Yagisan> dredg: thanks - that's the one that I forgot the name of
<hubH> bddebian: evince
<ivoks> Yagisan: rhel IS free
<ivoks> Yagisan: rhn is not
<Yagisan> ivoks: not binaries
<ivoks> Yagisan: yup, even binaries :)
<dredg> ivoks: you should be able to login to rhn and download the iso
<ivoks> dredg: i know...
<Yagisan> ivoks: hmm- tell red hat asia-pac
<dredg> Yagisan: technically there is nothing stopping ivoks burning a copy of rhel4 and giving it to me for free
<ivoks> dredg: well...
<ivoks> dredg: trade mark issues :)
<Yagisan> dredg: I know -  and if the support was good - I'd pay for it
<ivoks> i will d/l evaluation copy
<ivoks> and put in my account
<Yagisan> but there is a reason I use ubuntu - better support
<dredg> Yagisan: er, sure
<Yagisan> - and the people are nicer
<ivoks> Yagisan: ah, this isn't about better support or anything
<ivoks> Yagisan: my copmany is paying me RHCE, so... :)
<dredg> if rhel dies at 4am i want someone i can phone and demand that they fix it
<ivoks> dredg: that will be available for ubuntu too, soon :)
<Yagisan> dredg: red hat f*cked up several largeish installs here - the clients went back to windows
<ivoks> dredg: even now you can buy support from canonical
<dredg> ivoks: sure. i was just using it as an example. we're unlikely to need support for any machines :)
* ivoks is thinkig to create pay-for-support for ubuntu
<ivoks> at least here...
<dredg> if something dies outright we can just zap the install and start again :)
<Yagisan> dredg: It kinda sucks to see linux failure in major newspapers - with red hat cited as the vendor
<ivoks> Yagisan: i'll do ubuntu desktop installation in one company very soon
<ivoks> Yagisan: arround 20 computers
<Yagisan> congrats ivoks
<ivoks> Yagisan: they will migrate all machines to linux, except one... need for AutoCAD
<bddebian> hubH: ??
<Yagisan> ivoks: I promote it to my customers
<ivoks> Yagisan: ?
<hubH> bddebian: gpdf is crap. use Evince
<Yagisan> ivoks: I promote ubuntu migrations to my customers
<dredg> ivoks: we're working on making ubuntu our supported linux desktop
<hubH> bddebian: or xpdf
<crimsun> hubH: gpdf is on the FTBFS list
<bddebian> hubH: I'm talking aboutfixing FTBFSs :)
<dredg> ivoks: unfortunately, due to the way we do things, it requires a bit of hacking :)
<hubH> FTBFS?
<hubH> what that?
<bddebian> hubH: Fails to Build From Source
<hubH> ah
<Lathiat> bddebian: compiling boson 0.11, so far so good
<Lathiat> a bazillion warnins
<Lathiat> but no errors yet
<dredg> ivoks: where 'a bit' means 'quite a lot' :)
<bddebian> Lathiat: Awesome, thx
<bddebian> Lathiat: with gcc4?
<Lathiat> bddebian: indeed
<ivoks> dredg: like what?
<dredg> ivoks: not allowed say
<Lathiat> bddebian: doh, failed. :)
<bddebian> Heh :-)
<dredg> suffice to say we use patched kerberos, ldap and nfsv4 everywhere
<Lathiat> looks fixable
<dredg> and a whole load of custom apps that work with that setup
<ivoks> dredg: ok :)
<ivoks> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> dholbach: will you sister come to UBZ? :)
<dholbach> i don't think so :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: stop trying to pick up
<ivoks> ah... :(
<ivoks> :))
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<torkel> dredg: patched kerberos and ldap in what way?
<dredg> torkel: no comment
<zakame> bddebian: hi
<tritium_> hi guys
<zoot_> crimsun: sorry to bug you, but not a soul is on #xubuntu-devel. if u get a chance, let me know where else i may find help - have posted to xfce list but a bit pointless as kiosk mode works fine when i configure it on other distros... hmmm - will plug away..
<dredg> torkel: i'm not sure just what i'm allowed talk about so i'm just going to shut up now :)
<torkel> dredg: sure. I'm intrested in what way and why you have to patch kerberos and ldap though :-)
* Lathiat kicks torkel 
<dredg> torkel: i'm not sure myself, i just know it has to be done :) i've not been introduced to the real voodoo yet
<bddebian> How does debian/watch work?
<sistpoty> bddebian: you give url with regexp in debian/watch and then you can "uscan" which pretty much downloads the new version
<Yagisan> dredg: where do you work ?
<ivoks> NSA :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: It's already there so I just run uscan?
<tritium_> bddebian: once elmo syncs the packge for me, I just rebuild and upload?
<sistpoty> bddebian: yes
<tritium_> package
<bddebian> tritium_: You shouldn't have to do anything, just check the buildlogs and make sure it builds on all archs :-)
<torkel> Lathiat: what have i done now? except beeing OT?
<tritium_> oh, that's even better, thanks, bddebian
<bddebian> tritium_: Anytime :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: your shitting me right ?
<ivoks> yeah :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: How do I know if it did anything?  I got no output from uscan
<sistpoty> bddebian: you didn't?
<bddebian> sistpoty: Nope, just came back to the CL
<sistpoty> bddebian: then it probably didn't do a thing... I'll retry it with a package here, to make sure i didn't talk crap ;)
<sistpoty> bddebian: did you do it in top-level-src-dir? you could also try --verbose
<dredg> Yagisan: google
<bddebian> sistpoty: I'll try verbose, thx
<bddebian> sistpoty: It's OK, there was no newer version :-(
<bddebian> Shit, so I guess it's a manual gcc4 fix :-(
<Yagisan> dredg: you work at google ?
<dredg> Yagisan: correct
<ivoks> :)
<dredg> not quite NSA :)
<Yagisan> dredg: must have lots of interesting toys there ...
<ivoks> ok, downloading AS iso
<ivoks> ETA 40min :/
<Yagisan> my webpage was page ranked 1st once
<dredg> Yagisan: some yeah :)
<Yagisan> dredg: So when is the high profile switch to Ubuntu :)
<ivoks> i'm not sure google has any plans with ubuntu :)
<ivoks> they are partners with sun now :)
<Lathiat> ubuntu on sunfires ! :)
<dredg> no comment...
<dredg> ;)
<ivoks> this brings as to
<ivoks> dredg has nothing with google :)
<dredg> Yagisan: it won't be that high profile :) it's not like we're rolling it out on the servers or anything :)
<Lathiat> imposter!
<dredg> and as for the sun thing, last time i checked that was a toolbar distribution deal with java
<ivoks> yeah...
<ivoks> it would be great if google would stand behind ubuntu...
<ivoks> but... that's in some other parallel universe :)
<Lathiat> Maybe we can get a changeling infiltrator at the highest ranks of google :)
<ivoks> one question...
<ivoks> dredg: what's the best desktop distribution?
<dredg> ivoks: in my opinion, ubuntu. i've been using it for about a year
<ivoks> dredg: ok, it's irrelevant if you work for google or not, you are one of us :)
<dredg> ivoks: erm ok :)
<bddebian> Guys I don't want to be a jerk becaues I usually don't care but can you take this elsewhere?
<janimo> like ubuntu-devel :)
<ivoks> bddebian: you are right...
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=732 (hat) anyone willing to upload?
<siretart> hi
<siretart> sistpoty: looking at it
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<sistpoty> thx... it will take some time to build ;)
<siretart> I'm just revu-build'ing it ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ivoks> um...
<ivoks> xlibmesa-dev is now...?
<sistpoty> siretart: in case revu-builds fail, some strange things happen (imo)... i got "*.diff" and other files starting with "*." lying around
<siretart> sistpoty: do you know when the next TB meeting is? I assume it wasn't yesteday, was it?
<siretart> sistpoty: yeah, right
<ivoks> ah...
<sistpoty> siretart: no, mdz said he didn't get reply fast enough... so i assume it will be the regularly one
<siretart> thats how revu-build is implemented. it's a small shell script with some redirects
<hubH> w00t
<hubH> 3 package advocated
<zakame> bddebian: hmm, seems that lighttpd's license is a bit problematic, imo...
<ivoks> if we have build1, that becomes build2 or ubuntu1?
<bddebian> ivoks: If you change build-deps it's ubuntu1 if you just rebuild it's build2
<ivoks> ok
<siretart> ivoks: depends. did you change anything else thath debian/changelog, ubuntu1
<dredg> right, time to go home
<ivoks> dredg: bye
<dredg> later
<sistpoty> wow... i just fixed a package i haven't known, which i find extremely useful :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> me too
<ivoks> chromium :)
* sistpoty fixed seahorse
<ivoks> ok, leave packages from r-z to me...
<ivoks> i'll do that, ok?
<ivoks> so we don't do double work..
<sistpoty> ivoks: ok
<ivoks> all right
<\sh> moins
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=733 (seahorse) anyone to upload?
<\sh> seahorse? it's in?
<sistpoty> it ftbfs'd...
<\sh> sistpoty: did u merge it or is it a new release?
<sistpoty> sync from debian, and had to fiddle with the configure script (still ftbfs'd)
<\sh> and now everything is ok?
<sistpoty> it works :)... i successfully deleted my key:(
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> wow
<\sh> sistpoty: I'll upload for you
<sistpoty> thx \sh
<azeem> Hi.  ghemical_1.90-2 now built fine on ia64 and amd64 in unstable, is there a chance to have that synced for Breezy?
<siretart> sistpoty: oh. new upstream of hat?
<sistpoty> siretart: yep... the older one isn't compatible to our ghc6-version
<sistpoty> siretart: as in will compile, but won't be able to trace haskell stuff afterwards
<siretart> sistpoty: okay
<sistpoty> siretart: ogra told me it is ok ;)
<siretart> super
<\sh> sistpoty: u had a backup of your key?
<sistpoty> on the keyserver... but it was my 2nd key which i actually wanted to revoke or s.th. :)
<siretart> sistpoty: new key? I'm next week all day at uni, if you need a signature ;)
<ivoks> :)
<sistpoty> siretart: for sistpoty@ubuntu.com... but with seahoarse i found out that i can use my old key and add an user id... so i didn't need the new one
<sistpoty> siretart: however i did --send-key the new one already. how can i delete that now?
<siretart> noway
<sistpoty> damn ;)
<Fuddl> siretart: quake3 source now splits into quake3 and quake3-server packages. i'll upload the new package this evening
<siretart> hi Fuddl :)
<siretart> Fuddl: cool!
<siretart> Fuddl: welcome to MOTUGames, btw ;)
<Fuddl> siretart: yepp, splitting quake3 was my final goal... phu... :)
<ivoks> good job
<Fuddl> siretart: eh..... why "welcome"? i just did this ONE package, ok?
<Fuddl> :)
<sistpoty> huhu Fuddl
<Fuddl> hi sistpoty
<siretart> okay, hat looks fine, uploading
<sistpoty> cool, thx :)
<bddebian> OK, xprint-xprintorg package SUCKS too
<xerxas> is there an netinstall for ubuntu ?
<zyga> xerxas: AFAIK no
<zyga> xerxas: I asked the same question some time ago
<zyga> xerxas: you can install debian and then upgrade to ubuntu (so to speak)
<xerxas> or use a debstroop ; base-config ; apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<xerxas> :)
<\sh> netinstall?
<\sh> there is a netinstall
<\sh> I'm using it for my laptop
<\sh> (pxeboot)
<\sh> xerxas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/LocalNet
<\sh> xerxas: if it helps you
<xerxas> \sh,  thanks
<xerxas> will take look
* zyga learned a new thing
* zyga is thinking about a rougelike+mud game for developers ;)
<zyga> you have compiled your first package
<zyga> you gain 10 experience points ;-)
<xerxas> :)
<bddebian> Heh
* bddebian would be at -10,000 XP
<zyga> but it would be quite boring
<zyga> only bugs to squash
<zyga> hehe
<\sh> anyone needs syncs?
<bddebian> Oh, kinda like MOTU work then.. ;-P
<\sh> I'm writing a mail to elmo
<zyga> \sh: for dapper?
<\sh> for breezy
<\sh> we're not done with universe right now ;)
<zyga> ah, no then :)
<azeem> \sh: 17:58 < azeem> Hi.  ghemical_1.90-2 now built fine on ia64 and amd64 in unstable, is there a chance to have that synced for Breezy?
<\sh> this is the haskell stuff?
<azeem> no
<\sh> azeem: ok..putting it on my check list
<\sh> azeem: your email address which is whitelisted on -changes?
<\sh> azeem: and realname would be good as well ;)
* \sh thinks I need a gcl sync as well
<\sh> regarding acl2
<azeem> my realname is Michael Banck.  I am the maintainer of that package in Debian and noticed that it is unsynced in Breezy due to build failures in amd64.  As the latest version now built on amd64, I suggested to sync it.
<azeem> but it's not particularly important I guess
<\sh> azeem: everything we can fix is important
<azeem> just a matter of priority :)
<\sh> somethings wrong with my dsl line
<sistpoty> bddebian: are you working on gpdf?
<dholbach> re
<sistpoty> wb
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey \sh, thanks for the flowers in your blog entry :)
<dholbach> i was very pleased to read it :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Not at the moment.  It's pretty jacked
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<zyga> do you think it's reasonable to package firefox 1.5 beta builds and upgrade them often during dapper?
<sistpoty> bddebian: i could try to fix it... unless you want to take it yourself ;)
<\sh> dholbach: oh no..I only wrote the truth :)
<dholbach> :))
<bddebian> sistpoty: No, I'm at work, go for it :)
<\sh> and I will nerve elmo today with all sync mails ;)
<sistpoty> bddebian: ack
<bddebian> \sh: Good, you can take my place ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: hehe...but I'm writing some
<\sh> honey words with my sync requests, like "have a nice weekend"
<bddebian> \sh: I try that too ;-)
<\sh> bddebian: yeah..but I'm leaving out the ",-)"
<\sh> after "have a nice weekend"
<bddebian> hehe
<\sh> bddebian: I mean, when you go to work during weekends and someone tells you "have a nice weekend" on friday...
<\sh> uh elmo is working :)
<\sh> and now I see, that Lathiat requested as well wesnoth ;)
<bddebian>  1.0?
<\sh> yes
<bddebian> \sh: See, he hates me :-)
<\sh> bddebian: no
<\sh> cheers guys
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/debdiffs/gpdf_2.10.0-0ubuntu2_to_2.10.0-0ubuntu3.debdiff <- anyone to sponsor upload?
<dholbach> can do so
<sistpoty> cool :)
<siretart> sistpoty: hat got already built on i386 and amd64 ;)
<sistpoty> yep... i'm only waiting for ppc ;) (ia64 imo has no ghc6 yet)
<dholbach> sistpoty: did so
<sistpoty> thx
<\sh> azeem
<\sh> not here anymore
<Fuddl> siretart: next quake3 upload to your revu-thing in the next hour :)
<siretart> Fuddl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=723
<Fuddl> siretart: eh... already fixed that yesterday
<sistpoty> grrr... hat on ppc dep-waits for nhc98, and i dunno why. eventually this is because of hmake's or'd dependencies :(
<siretart> :(
<siretart> Fuddl: ah, in the next hour.. okay
<hubH> whiprush: your post was funny about "Get out of jail"
<hubH> whiprush: it is interesting that often the reason is "I have one of these Airport Extreme card and it does not work under linux"
<sistpoty> nhc98 is a pita :)... hopefully we won't have to care for it much longer (it's discussed on debian to morgue it)
<Fuddl> siretart: yepp, dist-upgrade to breezy is currently running
<siretart> Fuddl: on your main system? cool! :)
<\sh_away> nick \sh
<\sh_away> bah
<Fuddl> siretart: yeah, on MY system... uh... did i forget to mention vmware? ;)
<sistpoty> lol: "The system has no more ptys.  Ask your system administrator to create more."
<hubH> I think I found a pbuilder problem
<hubH> pbuilder claim that there is no libxml-parser-perl
<Fuddl> sistpoty: lol
<hubH> as "checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool" fails
<hubH> but intltool DEPEND on libxml-parser-perl
<sistpoty> hubH: then fix that problem ;) maybe the configure[.in]  is wrong? or missing build-dep? or outdated pbuilder?
<hubH> sistpoty: well, the pbuilder as been setup yesterday
<Fuddl> siretart: btw. what about those .desktop files? are they required for ubuntu?
<hubH> sistpoty: checking for intltool >= 0.21... 0.33 found
<hubH> sistpoty: so I question myself
<hubH> note that I'm complaining I'm just trying to understand
<\sh> hubH: what is apt-get -s install intltool saying?
<hubH> intltool is already the newest version.
<sistpoty> hubH: try to look at configure.in (if configure is generated from it). maybe running the autotools (aclocal, autoconf...) to update files will do the trick
<hubH> build find outside pbuilder
<sistpoty> hubH: do you have "standard" autoconf installed? or a newer/older version?
<hubH> sistpoty: then one in breezy
<sistpoty> hubH: then i would try to (re)generate autotools files (see above)
<siretart> Fuddl: there are required for the app beeing available in the kde/gnome menu.
<siretart> Fuddl: we really do want them, but they are not a prequisite
<Fuddl> siretart: work in progress[tm] ....
<ivoks> hi
<sistpoty> siretart: do you think a think a build-conflict to nhc98 in hat will solve the dep-wait issue?
<sistpoty> hi ivoks
<sistpoty> siretart: hat definitely doesn't need nhc98 to build
<ivoks> so.. to inform you RHELAS4+update2 installation sucks and...
<ivoks> it doesn't autodetect my resolution
<ivoks> go ubuntu! :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<siretart> sistpoty: if a package is in dep-wait, you definitly need a buildd admin to kick the package
<sistpoty> ok
<ivoks> lol, first update, first problems :)
<siretart> sistpoty: dep-wait is a state of wanna-build and requires in the current implementation manual interaction in any case. new upload will not help
<sistpoty> siretart: but will kicking it help w.o. making sure nhc98 gets drawn in?
<ivoks> Red Hat Network is currently experiencing technical difficulties. - so much about RHN...
<ivoks> argh... back to Ubuntu
<ivoks> will be back soon
<siretart> sistpoty: is nhc98 installable and working on ppc? if not, it needs to be fixed first
<sistpoty> siretart: I'll check...
<sistpoty> siretart: no, it's i386 only... and it shouldn't be needed at all ;)
<siretart> Fuddl: dscverify: invalid file length for quake3_1.33.SVN130.orig.tar.gz (wanted 7902070 got 0)
<siretart> Validation FAILED!!
<Fuddl> siretart: nnngrrrrr
<siretart> Fuddl: did you use dput?
<Fuddl> siretart: nope
<siretart> Fuddl: it looks to me like the changesfile wasn't uploaded last. use dput to save headaches
<chillywilly> hi
<bipolar> ok. if anyone has time we need a sync on mysql-admin. 1.1.3 is out and it's the only version that I've found that works to add user permisisons without major bugs.
<bipolar> btw... I HATE MS ACCESS.....
<ivoks> no kidding? :)
<Fuddl> siretart: checked the history in lftp, the command is correct, i didn't forget any files. and .dsc was the last file uploaded
<Fuddl> siretart: btw, the file is still in incoming with the correct size
<siretart> Fuddl: the CHANGES file needs to be uploaded last. not the dsc
<Fuddl> oops
<Fuddl> :)
<siretart> Fuddl: USE DPUT!
<siretart> Fuddl: no need to reupload. did fix the mess for you on tiber..
<Fuddl> shall i cancel the upload?
<siretart> yes
<siretart> ah, you reuploaded. yes, you can cancel it
<siretart> Fuddl: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=735
<Fuddl> hm... linda/lintian weren't too noisy
<siretart> linda is outdated on tiber. known issue.
<siretart> Fuddl: nice cleanup on debian/changelog, btw
<sistpoty> grrr... gpdf failed on amd64 :(
<Fuddl> siretart: because it got quite long during the last 24 hours? :)
<siretart> Fuddl: ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: i updated linda last night...
<siretart> Fuddl: just curious, why is the quake3-server available for sparc and powerpc, too but not the quake3 package itself?
<sistpoty> siretart: maybe it needs an update debian-policy as well?
<siretart> sistpoty: does it work? last time i tried it, it didn't. there where some python exceptions..
<Fuddl> siretart: http://icculus.org/quake3/: "What works:  PowerPC, we think."
<siretart> Fuddl: and the server?
<siretart> Fuddl: did you try it on your sparc? ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: erm... sorry, haven't checked :(
<Fuddl> siretart: somebody should test it on such hardware. no opengl: no problems for the server :)
<siretart> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=735 does not show any linda output. seems to work
<siretart> Fuddl: I'm talking about the server
<siretart> ah. sure
<siretart> hm. there are some opengl capable macs. perhaps someone should try ;)
<Fuddl> yes, that was my idea, too. first try, then give free for other architectures. finding out by bugreports maybe.... "not that cool" ;)
<Fuddl> hm... let's see if one of the sunnys will boot. i'm curious myself :)
<siretart> *g*
<sistpoty> anyone with amd64 to fix gpdf for that? ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: whats the matter with gpdf?
<sistpoty> siretart: ftbfs on ia64 and amd64
<sistpoty> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gpdf/2.10.0-0ubuntu3/gpdf_2.10.0-0ubuntu3_20051007-1938-amd64-failed.gz
<tseng>    * Fix reading of AC adapter status from /proc/acpi to work with
<tseng>      recent (post 2002) kernels.
<tseng> funny
<siretart> Fuddl: advocated (see comment)
<Fuddl> go quake3, go! :)
<siretart> Fuddl: if you find some other advocate, tell him to advocate http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=734 too!
<siretart> (the -data package)
<Fuddl> siretart: the question is where to find advocates! here?
<sistpoty> Fuddl: I'd love to intensely test the package, but i'm no motu (yet) ;)
<Fuddl> sistpoty: shame on you! :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<siretart> he is almost one :)
<Fuddl> hm... but perhaps <talking louder>there are some others in here, interested in quake3 in breezy</talking louder> ;)
<siretart> Fuddl: ppl here are busy with fixing malone bugs. we have order to not process NEW crack
<siretart> sort of 'order'
<sistpoty> siretart: actually there is a new target as well: UniverseFTBFS
<siretart> ah
<siretart> sistpoty: I think I have a fix for gpdf, just trying to build it
<Fuddl> it was worth to give it a try... :)
<sistpoty> siretart: cool, thx :)
<sistpoty> siretart: not even warnings on i386-build... impossible for me ;)
<sistpoty> at least no warnings where the errors are *G+
<siretart> sistpoty: thats a clear programming error
<siretart> sistpoty: you cannot assume that void* fits in an int
<siretart> sistpoty: thats only valid on 32bit archs
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> damn... atlas3 is building forever :(
<siretart> sistpoty: how are the lists generated?
<sistpoty> siretart: dholbach did these...
<siretart> okay
<Fuddl> ... and trying to fix the int<->*void stuff leads straight to hell...
<siretart> Fuddl: sometime it is sufficient to make the temporary variable in that method to long
<siretart> sometimes, I know
<neighborlee> What is the preferred route to getting a .deb into universe ?
<Fuddl> siretart: i thought of that "little" mistake in the cube/sauerbraten engine...
<tseng> upload to revu
<neighborlee> I was asked by our project head to get our packages into ubuntu thus..
<neighborlee> tseng, hi there..may I ask where this revu is ?
<ivoks> dholbach, dholbach... :)
<tseng> its in the topic
<neighborlee> tseng, I read howto's online but I must have missed this revu you speak of ;(
<ivoks> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> im on the phone
<tseng> neighborlee:  /topic
<neighborlee> checking
<tseng> http://revu.tauware.de
* sistpoty fixes bug -ENOMEAL with make pizza...
<neighborlee> tseng, is my login going to be my wiki username  or do I have to create a new one...
<tseng> create
<neighborlee> ok
<tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<neighborlee> yup thx
<neighborlee> tseng, thank you for your assitance
<tseng> np good luck
<neighborlee> :)
<tseng> what package are you working on btw
<neighborlee> sorry was in annother channel
<neighborlee> possible packages from : delta3d.org
<neighborlee> we use it as our game engine thus
<neighborlee> and I was asked if I"d try to get our packages into ubuntu
<neighborlee> by one of the project leads behind the project
<neighborlee> by one of the project leads
<neighborlee> dain I need to eat something lol
<neighborlee>  gotta reboot for new services..bbs
<Fuddl> siretart: still there?
<siretart> mom
<Fuddl> siretart: while i was smoking... i... made a desicion... i'll do the games stuff if you still need me
<dholbach> excellent! MOTUGames! :)
<ivoks> omg zorp
<Fuddl> bbl
<siretart> yay. gpdf builds on amd64 now :)
<siretart> uploaded. now for compiler stuff
<siretart> fuddl: of course we need and want YOU! (wb, btw)
<siretart> fuddl: it just that we are releasing in 1 week ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-13
<fuddl> siretart: that's why debian has variable release cycles - you're never under pressure ;)
<fuddl> btw, that f***cking ship-it amd64 install cd is absolutely unreadable for any cd drive... *grrr*
<siretart> fuddl: cd's can get scratched.. :(
<siretart> wb sistpoty
<sistpoty> re ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: thx for fixing gpdf
<siretart> fuddl: no. with debian, you are even more under pressure: because you have to support your broken stuff way longer
<siretart> sistpoty: I'm happy if I can help :)
<fuddl> funny, the beer-bathed, sticking and scratched cd-rw did the job, jiieehaaa!
<jmg> is it more important to me to fix kubuntu breezy or kde 3.5b1
<jmg> when breezy is released we can put 3.5 in kubuntu-updates yes?
<fuddl> siretart: can use breezy for a production system?
<fuddl> siretart: in fact, "the daily job" my computer has to do for me...
<sistpoty> fuddl: I've been using it for quite some time... and there are no big annoyances for me now :)
<sistpoty> fuddl: like xorg having been b0rked ;)
<fuddl> sistpoty: i'll take this as an "ok, no problem" :)
<sistpoty> fuddl: yep... didn't start debian/unstable for some weeks now :)
<fuddl> ... waiting for upgrade finishing...
<siretart> fuddl: absolutly. we have just released the preview, and in main, there shouldn't be any grave changes anymore
<fuddl> siretart: i hope this FOR YOU! ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<siretart> fuddl: if you still find some bugs in some obscure window manager in universe, we can have a more relaxed upload policy than main
<siretart> fuddl: ;) - what was your windowmanager again?
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> which one is it?
<fuddl> siretart: xfce is important, can't survive without it!!!
<dholbach> and there's an xfce team already :)
<dholbach> woohoo
<siretart> the xfce team did a great job for breezy!
<siretart> fuddl: there is xubuntu, ubuntu with xfce desktop ;)
<fuddl> oh, then i'll wait for cubuntu - console ubuntu
<fuddl> :)
<siretart> fuddl: we have that already (try server at install cd)
<sistpoty> bah... how about rpubuntu as in ratpoison-ubuntu?
<siretart> hrhr
<fuddl> i did the mighty "expert" way, but i still had to kill the bastard trying to install gnome and stuff after the first reboot. can't leave that thing alone for five minutes!
<siretart> fuddl: ? - i just did an 'server' breezy install in vmware a few hours ago. nothing of gnome was installed
<fuddl> does the libc6  in breezy have the same can't-resolve-ipv6-bug as in debian unstable?
<fuddl> siretart: me expert, you server :)
<fuddl> i guess there's a difference and they're not just synonyms for each other
<siretart> I disabled ipv6 here, because of the glanzmann tunnels broken. I know that we have a bit a different libc6, so there are chances for your ipv6 bug
<siretart> fuddl: the expert install was renamed to server, I think
<dholbach> you may want to talk to fabbione, who will tell you that the implemenation of ipv6 is *standard*, only that some broken firewalls / broken nameservers f.ck the whole thing up :)
<dholbach> only firefox seems to circumvent that in some cases (which seems buggy too)
* dholbach just overheard a conversation some days ago :)
<fuddl> firefox and ssh
<fuddl> i'll be out for a cigarette. bbl
<sistpoty> dholbach: atlas3 should be synced from unstable to fix ftbfs... the newer version was pretty much done to have it compile with gcc4 :)
<dholbach> cool
<sistpoty> dholbach: however there is a huge number of depends on atlas3, so I can't say it will/will not break anything
<dholbach> thanks for checking that :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: took 5-6h to compile :=
<sistpoty> :)
<dholbach> hmmmmmmmm
<dholbach> that's pretty tough to decide
<sistpoty> changelog is: (some lines follow)
<sistpoty>  * Have gcc 4.0 and greater recognized as a good compiler in config.c
<sistpoty>   * Remove bx from the clobber list in camm_dpa.h as is explicitly pushed
<sistpoty>     and restored
<sistpoty>   * static proclamation syntax change to uumtst.c
<sistpoty>   * Slightly modify ATL_F77wrap_tr{m,s}v.c to work around gcc 4.0 bug when
<sistpoty>     using -fomit-frame-pointer
<sistpoty>   * Now can build with gcc >=4.0, Closes: #315908.
<dholbach> and it was no upstream change at all?
<dholbach> just a new debian revision?
<sistpoty> yep from -19 to -20
<dholbach> that sounds pretty safe
<sistpoty> i did a fast test with a prog depending on it... that worked. but that doesn't say other things are broken
<dholbach> clearly
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> if i update libraries (new upstream version), i always check the output of    nm -D /usr/lib/libbla.so    of the new and old library
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<dholbach> but that doesnt say much either
<dholbach> when was that change in debian?
<dholbach> any serious bug reports since then?
<bddebian> Hello Stefan and Daniel
<dholbach> hey bddebian
<dholbach> how are you? :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: 28 Sep... so not very old. apart from that last build for ubuntu was with gcc-3.3 :(
<bddebian> dholbach: OK, thx. You?
<dholbach> bddebian: a bit tired, but ok, thanks :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: however there is just two minor/whishlist bugs for atlas3 in BTS... you decide :)
<dholbach> sistpoty: you better ask somebody more conservative ;)
<sistpoty> ok, I'll try my luck in -devel then ;)
<bddebian> dholbach: Do you want us to mark main packages as such?  Remove them from the list, what?
<dholbach> if main packages didnt build after the testbuild, we should check whats going wrong :)
<bddebian> Hey, that's THEIR problem. ;-)
<dholbach> haha :)
<bddebian> I think this is pointless
<sistpoty> wow apt-cache can generate dot files :)
<Diablo-D3> back.
<Diablo-D3> Hey guys, is there a repo for the next ubuntu version yet?
<dholbach> which one?
<dholbach> breezy?
<dholbach> now please don't say dapper
<dholbach> we're quite busy enough to get ONE release fixed up at the same time ;)
<Diablo-D3> breezy+1
<dholbach> no we're all busy with getting breezy done
<Diablo-D3> Okay.
<bddebian> dholbach: Speak for yourself ;-P
<dholbach> bddebian: so you're hacking on dapper already... well that's nice, could you please backport your fixes, then? kthxbye
<Diablo-D3> hah
<bddebian> dholbach: No, I just meant someone is working... ;-P
* dholbach should go to bed now
<bddebian> Gnight dholbach
* bddebian pokes ajmitch 
<sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
<dholbach> night guys :)
<dholbach> ROCK ON
<bddebian> Uh-oh
* bddebian just discovered XGalaga ;-)
<Kyral> So what does FTBFS day mean?
<dholbach> apt-get install bsdgames; wtf ftbfs
<Kyral> I know what FTBFS means
<Kyral> I wanna mean what do we do on FTBFS day
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> it's the day where we fix all the FTBFS
<sistpoty> dholbach: read ogras decision?
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> so Apt-Source them and fix'em?
<sistpoty> Kyral: yep. or check for a newer debian version that fixes them as well
<Kyral> dibs on i386 :D
<womble> And here I was thinking that FTBFS day was when you upgraded all the buildds to a new GCC version and watch the FTBFS roll in...
<dholbach> sistpoty: judging from the changelog it sounds fairly safe
<dholbach> womble: haha
<sistpoty> dholbach: and there is only one rdepend that can't be covered by refblas3 from main :)
<dholbach> sistpoty: i dont quite understand
<Kyral> Should I tackle g++-4.0?
<bddebian> Kyral: Except they all have rdepends and cant get updated anyway.. :-)
<Kyral> rdepends?
<sistpoty> dholbach: almost all of the rdepends are refblas3 | atlas3-base... (with refblas3 being in main)
<dholbach> oh hm
<dholbach> dunno
<dholbach> *shrug*
<sistpoty> ogra said it's ok then... but i don't want to keep you from going to bed ;)
<dholbach> thank you... have a nice evening :)
<sistpoty> gn8 :)
<bddebian> Gnight again dholbach :-)
<sistpoty> Kyral: reverse dependencies... packages that depend on this package
<bddebian> Kyral: Reverse Depends.  Packages that depend on a package
<Kyral> chimatta....gdesklets doesn't have a source package to begin with...
<sistpoty> lol bddebian
<Kyral> whats the SID source line...
<ajmitch> hi
<sistpoty> Kyral: "deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian unstable main non-free contrib" (replace with your debian server), but you might check http://packages.debian.org/whateveryourpackageis
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<Kyral> Bah its complaining that the Sid isn't verified
<Kyral> well....sid does have a source package for gdesklets
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<Kyral> This should be easy, I just make a change in the changelog and then repackage it?
<sistpoty> Kyral: if you don't actually change anything, then this shouldn't be uploaded but a sync requested instead
<Kyral> Oh...how do I do that./..
<sistpoty> Kyral: otherwise we'll have to manually merge it when sid is completely synced to universe
<sistpoty> Kyral: write a mail to elmo... or tell a motu to request it from elmo ;)
<fuddl> re
<Kyral> well it doesn't because I'm getting a permission denied on dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<bddebian> sudo
<Kyral> Since when do I have to sudo that thing?
<bddebian> Since you started using Ubuntu?
<Kyral> I meant I never had to when I have done anything in that dir before
<Kyral> anyway, I'm off!
<bddebian> Grr, I quit (AGAIN)..
<sistpoty> bddebian: why?
<ajmitch> bye bddebian
<bddebian> bye ajmitch ;-)
<sistpoty> cya Kyral
<bddebian> sistpoty: xgalaga builds find locally but not in pbuilder.  Can't find the X stuff :-(
<ajmitch> I hope you have fun doing whatever it is you plan to do
<ajmitch> bddebian: opensuse?
<sistpoty> bddebian: make it build again!!! we really need xgalaga to be in good shape for dapper ;)
<sistpoty> damn... editing 4 wiki pages sucks... we should try to merge these pages next time
<bddebian> ajmitch: Are you trying to get rid of me again? :-)
<sistpoty> ok, time for me to go to bed... gn8
<bddebian> Gnight sistpoty
<ajmitch> bddebian: of course, I try & get rid of everyone around here
<bddebian> Looks like it worked ;-)
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> so.. hungry
* bddebian hands ajmitch a cheesesteak :-)
<tseng> yum
<tseng> PA style death on a plate
<bddebian> w00h00
<tseng> ill take one
<bddebian> wit? ;-)
<tseng> sauteed onions, mayo, ketchup
<ajmitch> my heart has stopped just thinking about it
<tseng> who needs a heart, anyway
<bddebian> Yeah
<tseng> not pennsylvanians
<bddebian> I'm already killing my lungs, why stop there? :-)
<tseng> heart failure doesnt scare us
<bddebian> tseng: Wherabouts are you at anyway?
<tseng> West Chester
<tseng> an hour from philly lets say
<bddebian> Ah yes, I know where West Chester is.  You aren't all that far from me then
<tseng> how far is that
* ajmitch is lucky to be a long way from anyone
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why, do you have gas? ;)
<ajmitch> sure :P
<bddebian> tseng: I'm in Schwenksville.  Near Collegeville.
<tseng> never heard
<ajmitch> great names there
<bddebian> Uhm, just west of Valley Forge?
<tseng> valley forge is near KOP right
<bddebian> Yep
<tseng> how far are you from there?
<bddebian> Just about 10 miles up 422
<tseng> elite
<tseng> you might make my place going 30 minutes south on 202 from KOP
<bddebian> Well I drive to Philly everyday for work :-(
<tseng> that sucks
<bddebian> No kidding
<tseng> i am going to philly next week with my dad
<tseng> i got him stones tickets
<bddebian> Took me over 1.5 hourse to get home tonight :-(
<bddebian> -e
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> < 10 minutes walk for me to get to work
<bddebian> Nice
<tseng> rolling stones for the kids in the room
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> bddebian: been to the wachovia center?
<bddebian> Not yet.  I've only seen the Phillies so far since we've been here
<bddebian> And I don't even like baseball :-(
<tseng> heh alot of my coworkers go to the eagles
<tseng> you probably work near me also, i work in Wilmington
<tseng> which isnt too far on 95 from wachovia and all that
<tseng> the airport
<bddebian> Aye.  I'm right by the airport.
<tseng> oh elite
<bddebian> You know where Oasis is?
<tseng> nope.
<tseng> yahoo suggests its a resteraunt
<bddebian> Uhm, something like that ;-)
<ajmitch> probably some dodgy startup
<bddebian> I'm at 7800 Holstein
<bddebian> ajmitch: It's a "Gentlemens Club"
<ajmitch> hah
<tseng> and you're the entertainment?
* ajmitch shudders
<bddebian> No I'm close to Oasis.  I work at Ottens Flavors
<tseng> oh yum
<tseng> you make
<tseng> Cherry Cola  ?
<tseng> among other things
<bddebian> We would make the cherry that goes in the Cola yes
<tseng> oh =/
<bddebian> Or Vanilla, or chocolate, etc
<ajmitch> and you're the IT guy?
<tseng> he's the elite chemistry wizz
<ajmitch> ah, the bomb maker
<ajmitch> right
<tseng> http://arstechnica.com/columns/linux/linux-20051002.ars
<tseng> this is really cool
<tseng> last week a coworker and i "rev engineered" aim with pcap, tethereal, and.. grep
<ajmitch> I was just about expecting it to be a whiprush article
<tseng> this is alot slicker
<tseng> hm not this time :P
<tseng> but that binding is really slick
<tseng> i cant wait to show off w/ it next week
<bddebian> ajmitch: Aye, I am "IT Manager".. whoopee
<tseng> it would have been perfect for my duplicate syn tester
<tseng> where the firewall never tore down tcp connections
<tseng> bbiab
<bddebian> Laterz
<ajmitch> yeah I think I need breakfast soon
* ajmitch was glad to hear that manual elmo sync requests will go away with the switch to LP
<Diablo-D3> elmo?
<Diablo-D3> LP?
<ajmitch> yes
* Diablo-D3 edits that to nsync
<Diablo-D3> so now we have elmo listening to an nsync LP.
<Diablo-D3> the ultimate weapon in the war against intelligence.
<ajmitch> yeah, funny
<zyga> tseng: very interesting article :)
<zyga> tseng: are you on the ruby team? :)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Oh, what's the point of trying to fix all these FTBFSs when most of them can't go in anyway?? :-(
<tseng> zyga: nope
<LaserJock> yeah, what's up with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 . Is that really a list of packages that FTBFS?
<tseng> zyga: i am still getting my feetwet with ruby, i am a php and tcl programmer by day
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yes
<tseng> zyga: expect, snmp, if its scary i probably do it
* zyga doesn't even know ruby but that never stopped him before
<tseng> haha
<zyga> (I did want to learn ruby recently)
<tseng> it has a few cool tricks
<zyga> yes it does :)
<tseng> without the whole "wtf is that?" effect of perl tricks
<tseng> its somewhat readable
<tseng> here is a cool script i did
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/walk.rb
<zyga> tseng: ruby had to get something wrong though
<LaserJock> bddebian: I don't get it, aren't a lot of the FTBFS packages in the repo? and working
<zyga> tseng: hey, let's recycle that old pascal syntax - yay
<tseng> im too young to know anything about pascal
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yes
<tseng> (fortunately?)
<bddebian> Who needs any of it when there's COBOL!! ;-P
<zyga> tseng: ??
<zyga> tseng: how old are you if I may ask
<tseng> 20
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> I couldn't even take ya for a drink! ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't worry granddad ;)
<zyga> tseng: I'm 23 but I did used to write stuff in pascal
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh
<tseng> bddebian: yay, Straight Edge
<zyga> ahh pretty dos times
<zyga> no memory protection ;)
<tseng> hm i started with BASIC
<bddebian> tseng: Straight Edge?
<tseng> skipped right over pascal :)
<ajmitch> tseng: same here
<ajmitch> no point learning pascal
<zyga> tseng: argg.. basic hurts ;)
<ajmitch> especially when we had the power of qbasic
<zyga> my friend still claims it's the best language ;-)
<tseng> bddebian: GOTO 10
<zyga> pascal had crappy nazi typing
<tseng> er, zyga
<bddebian> Heh
<zyga> tseng: (he makes websites alot - customers don't care)
<tseng> bddebian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge
<Diablo-D3> hah you said nazis.
<ajmitch> Diablo-D3: yes, he did
<bddebian> tseng: Ah
<bddebian> Damn, no matter what I do, I can't get libzvt to find libpangox-1.0.so
<zyga> bddebian: autoconf?
<ajmitch> bddebian: it looks to be so out of date that it's not worth it
<bddebian> ajmitch: This is from Debian
<bddebian> Not that it's any newer
<ajmitch> version?
<LaserJock> bddebian: so how can we install binarys from this FTBFS list? Are they previous builds?
<bddebian> 2.01cvs20021009-4
<bddebian> LaserJock: Most likely
<ajmitch> bddebian: right, so 3 years old
<bddebian> ajmitch: So it should be morgued?
<ajmitch> dunno :)
<Diablo-D3> http://shadowconflict.blogspot.com/2005/10/opensolaris-gives-foss-community.html
<ajmitch> please don't spam urls in multiple channels
<Diablo-D3> ajmitch: you're stalking me!
<ajmitch> don't be stupid
<Diablo-D3> ssstttaaalllkkkeeeerrr!
<tseng> seriously.
<Diablo-D3> well, atleast Im popular enough to have my own stalker now.
<ajmitch> trust me, you're not
<Diablo-D3> bah
<tseng> i dont need you screwing around with the motus
<Diablo-D3> then quit stalking me.
<tseng> i have a 0 bullshit tolerance policy
<tseng> ask bddebian :)
* bddebian hides
<ajmitch> my tolerance level is rapidly dropping this week
<Diablo-D3> tseng: but what if they're hot chick motus?
<ajmitch> seriously, just be quiet unless you've got something on-topic
<tseng> makes no difference to me.
<Diablo-D3> Bah.
<Diablo-D3> wait, we have hot chick motus?
<tseng> not yet, but we dont need you scaring them off with that kind of talk
<Diablo-D3> damn! >_<
<zakame> hi all
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> bddebian, hello =)
<TMM> can someone please take a look at the comment on my package here? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=721
<Lathiat> i'd like ot sync synce-dccm new version from debian, fixes a bug in some soudn stuff (malone #2738) -- but i can't test it and it also has a minor usptream version update
<Lathiat> anyone use synce?
<TMM> I want to know how I can actually do that :) the only change is the removal of 2 files from a makefile
<Lathiat> TMM: do what, exactly ?
<Lathiat> the debian/patches stuff ?
<ajmitch> TMM: you know how to use dpatch?
<TMM> ajmitch, no, I don't
<ajmitch> and please make sure you do include the orig.tar.gz otherwise we cannot review it or build it
<TMM> Lathiat, I removed AUTHORS, COPYING etc from the Makefile as dh_install_doc does it
<ajmitch> why did you remove them from the makefile?
<Lathiat> siretart: ping
<TMM> ajmitch, because make install made sure it was somehow copied to /usr/share/doc directly
<ajmitch> looks like you ran automake & autoconf on it again?
<TMM> ajmitch, with dh_installdoc (or something) it copies it to the appropriate place, so I figured I'd remove them from the package
<TMM> ajmitch, I had to, because I had to change the Makefile.am
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> so you really have to put that in debian/patches
<TMM> I figured that much, but how? :)
<ajmitch> http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
<TMM> I just did a diff and put it in debian/patches but it doesn't seem to get picked up
<ajmitch> because it's not automatic
<ajmitch> you need a patch system in place like dpatch
<ajmitch> you're using cdbs now?
<TMM> yeah
<TMM> much, much nicer :)
<ajmitch> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk
<TMM> ahhh... I just add a mk and it's done?
<hub> crap
<TMM> ajmitch, I just read it :)
<ajmitch> and make sure you have a rule like 'unpatch: deapply-dpatches'
<hub> pbuilder fails one test with that perl module
<hub> gah
<TMM> ajmitch, along the dpatch.mk thing?
<ajmitch> TMM: and a file 00list in debian/patches.. the patch should be in dpatch format too, sorry :)
<TMM> ajmitch, ah... I'm a bit confused now... what exactly do I do? :)
<ajmitch> you do as I said ;)
<TMM> wuh...
<TMM> according to this:
<TMM> https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
<bddebian> ajmitch: Can you look at 2939?
<TMM> this is all I do...
<ajmitch> you *can* use simple-patchsys if you want, but it's not as useful
<ajmitch> bddebian: why me?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because you ROCK
<ajmitch> no, I don't
<TMM> ajmitch, I only need to remove 3 lines from the makefile, do I need anything more useful? :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: I just want to know if you think it's valid?
<TMM> (2 of which are whitespace) ;)
<ajmitch> TMM: your patch will have to include all the results of running autoconf & automake
<ajmitch> it's not just a 3 line change
<ajmitch> but a 300K change that you uploaded
<TMM> ajmitch, can't I just run autogen.sh from rules/ ?
<ajmitch> that is rather evil
<TMM> why evil?
<TMM> I'm not trying to be stubborn, I just want to learn the ethics :)
<ajmitch> you have to build depend on appropriate versions of autoconf & automake
<TMM> ok, ok, ok...
<TMM> so... what do I do then? :)
<ajmitch> put it in a patch as I said :)
<TMM> I *did* put it in a patch ;)
<TMM> ok...
<TMM> please
<TMM> once more, from the top
<TMM> I patch the makefile
<TMM> I run autogen
<TMM> then do a diff?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> not with dpatch :)
* TMM bangs head
<ajmitch> you make sure debian/rules is setup for dpatch
<ajmitch> then you dpatch-edit-patch name-of-patch
<ajmitch> it drops you into a subshell
<ajmitch> you make changes
<ajmitch> it generates patch
<ajmitch> which is why it is nice, you don't have to do manual diffs
<ajmitch> which gets complex with multiple patches to apply
<TMM> ok, I put the dpatch.mk in my rules, I unpacked a fresh sourcetree (just to be sure)
<TMM> and put my debian/ dir back
<TMM> do I need to have a debian/patch dir present?
<ajmitch> and you added the unpatch rule as I suggested?
<ajmitch> you need debian/patches
<TMM> exactly that line you gave me
<ajmitch> yes
<TMM> yes
<ajmitch> just put it at the bottom of debian/rules
<TMM> ok
<TMM> so now, I am in my debian/ dir and I type dpatch-edit-patch makefile.diff ?
<bddebian> crimsun: You up?
<ajmitch> so you should be able to run dpatch-edit-patch autotools_fix
<TMM> in what dir do I want to be?
<ajmitch> the base directory will be fine
<TMM> ok
<bddebian> Damn, where is everyone in -devel?
<ajmitch> away
<TMM> cool done
<TMM> ok, trying... :)
<TMM> ajmitch, I need another file you said? because it's not patching :)
<TMM> 00list
<ajmitch> yes
<TMM> that just lists the name of the patch?
<ajmitch> yes
<TMM> one patch on a line?
<ajmitch> yes
<TMM> with or without debian/patch prefix?
<ajmitch> without
<ajmitch> and it goes in debian/patches
<TMM> and the dpatch suffix?
<ajmitch> doesn't matter, iirc
<ajmitch> and make sure you add the build dependency on dpatch
<TMM> ok
<TMM> I am not sure it is working, it said that the patch wasn't applied to ./. or something...
<TMM> I'll just finish building the package, see what happenes
<TMM> OK, it *did* work :)
<ajmitch> great
<TMM> ajmitch, but it won't deapply now...
<ajmitch> fun
<TMM> I think I might just go ahead and *do* modify orig.tar.gz
<TMM> It's giving me a lot of trouble
<TMM> the original debian/ dir
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<TMM> just mention it in the changelog and everything should be fine, right?
<ajmitch> and README.Debian is standard
<TMM> ok, so... I unpack the original source, change it, repack it, then re-run dh_make on it?
<TMM> then put my debian/ dir stuff in there?
<ajmitch> oh please not
<ajmitch> why would you re-run dh_make?
<TMM> I dunno... for the changes file I thought
<ajmitch> no?
<ajmitch> you've already got a debian/ dir to use
<TMM> so, what I do is: I unpack the original tar.gz, remove the debian/ dir, and repack?
<ajmitch> yes
<TMM> ok
<TMM> trying...
<ajmitch> do it in an empty directory to make sure you don't accidentally remove all your work so far ;)
<bddebian> Any PPC folks in here?
<ajmitch> no, we all run windows here
<TMM> I'm not THAT stupid :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yuck, yuck, yuck :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: hey I do have a copy of windows XP here ;)
<TMM> owww.... HELL
<TMM> checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... /home/hp/ubuntu/dvdstyler/dvdstyler-1.4/./configure: line 4416: no: command not found
<TMM> WTF?
<ajmitch> heh
<TMM> that dpatch isn't all that it is cracked up to be it seems :)
* TMM kicks dpatch and autotools
<TMM> next time I think "hey, I'll do an easy package to start off with" I'll just try open-heart surgery first
<ajmitch> haha
<TMM> redoing... EVERYTHING now...
<TMM> well, it helped
<TMM> for non-obvious reasons
<TMM> :)
<TMM> w00t, no more errors
<TMM> is there a special format for README.debian?
<ajmitch> no
<TMM> so I just add a file  README.debian to debian/ and it'll all be golden? :)
<ajmitch> maybe
<ajmitch> depends on what other things need done to the package :)
<TMM> well... only manpage I guess
<TMM> that is the final fronteer, I never did one :)
<ajmitch> we'll pull it apart when we review it
<ajmitch> bddebian can attest to that :)
<bddebian> heh
<TMM> uploading in a sec
<TMM> I dare you to find anything ELSE wrong (besides the manpage) :)
<ajmitch> ooh, a challenge
* ajmitch gets out the knives
<TMM> building final version... (I hope)
<TMM> I think a bunch of italiens just spinned in their grave :)
<TMM> I just ate a sandwitch with salami and french mustard
<TMM> which on of the changes file do I upload?
<TMM> the source or the i386 one?
<ajmitch> the latest source one
<ajmitch> and make sure you built it with -sa
<TMM> I did
<ajmitch> ok
<TMM> and now, the 5 mins waiting period... :P
<TMM> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=739
<TMM> have fun with the knives :P
* ajmitch will write up a list of things that need fixed
<bddebian> Heh
<TMM> lol
<TMM> already a list?
* TMM hides
<ajmitch> oh I've already spotted a few things :)
<ajmitch> and I've only looked at the diff so far
<TMM> O dear, already?
<ajmitch> sure
<TMM> geez... :)
<TMM> like what? :)
* TMM thought he actually did a decent package this time
<hub> TMM: 530KB of patch?
<TMM> I did it the way ajmitch told me, I had to re-run automake and friends on the source
<hub> TMM: I trust you
<hub> I'm just wow
* hub is having headache with pbuilder
<TMM> I'm probably the wrong person to ask :)
<ajmitch> TMM: it's fairly good, they're mostly minor issues :)
* ajmitch likes tomboy, great for keeping notes while reviewing :)
<hub> make test for the perl module fail in pbuilder on one test
<TMM> ajmitch, tomboy?
<ajmitch> TMM: yes
<hubZzz> night
<ajmitch> night
<bddebian> Gnight hubZzz
<TMM> ajmitch, lots of problems? how is the patient? :) the suspense is killing me
<ajmitch> ok, since you want some details..
<ajmitch> can you explain the long list of build-depends?
<ajmitch> why a versioned dep on wx2.6-headers with a version of >= 2.4.x ?
<ajmitch> spelling mistakes..
<ajmitch> is gnome.mk really needed in debian/rules
<ajmitch> these things take awhile for me to check through, which is why I keep a list & work through it :)
<TMM> ajmitch, it helps with the pkgconf stuff... the debian/rules file would be longer if I did it manually with debhelper I think
<TMM> ajmitch, I suppose I could just put in wx2.6-headers unversioned since it'll work on anything greater than 2.4.2
<ajmitch> and how often would you find wx2.6-headers with a version < 2.6? :)
<TMM> ajmitch, the long buildependency list is because the configure script checks for all the external programs it uses
<TMM> ajmitch, I just wanted to be complete :) but you are right, it is nonsense
<TMM> ajmitch, I could patch the configure script to not check for those, I guess...
<ajmitch> why bother?
<ajmitch> I was just askign you to justify them being there, since I haven't had time to check configure
<TMM> this is good? the long list of dependencies?
<ajmitch> better to have too many build-depends than to miss some
<TMM> I am sure I've got them all
<TMM> I checked carefully with pbuild
<TMM> it's should be its , right? :)
<ajmitch> :0:> dvdstyler
<ajmitch> dvdstyler: error while loading shared libraries: libwx_gtk-2.4.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<ajmitch> *cough*
<TMM> wuh?
<ajmitch> never mind..
<ajmitch> badness on my system
<TMM> It shows up as a runtime dep
<ajmitch> yes
* ajmitch had an old built copy in /usr/local/bin
* TMM wipes brow
<ajmitch> obviously quite old :)
<TMM> I wondered how I could ever have missed that :)
* ajmitch waits for the app to show up
<ajmitch> it's an ugly app
<TMM> should be quite snappy
<TMM> ugly, yes
<TMM> but it's very functional :)
<TMM> most functionality for dvd menu creation than every other dvd authoring tool I tried
<TMM> open source that is
<ajmitch> that's not saying much at times :)
<TMM> I know
<TMM> but I've used it to create several DVD video disks already
<TMM> and it works in every dvd player I tried it in
<TMM> even my PS2, and THAT is saying something ;)
<TMM> but... what do I need to change to make it allright?
<TMM> and, if it is allright will that automatically mean that it's going to be included in universe?
<ajmitch> it depends, we're *very* close to release day
<ajmitch> and it needs 2 MOTUs to sign off on it before we upload it
<ajmitch> for a first package you've done quite a good job
<ajmitch> do you still need that autotools-dev build-dependency? :)
<TMM> I suppose, not
<ajmitch> btw, please change "It's" to "Its" in the description
<ajmitch> speeling erors annoy me :P
<TMM> ajmitch, already did that, I spotted it when you said there where spelling errors
<TMM> ok, then I'll remove the autotools-dev dep, re-run it through pbuild
<ajmitch> section doesn't need universe, in debian/control
<TMM> just sound?
<TMM> (there is no video)
<ajmitch> yea
<TMM> ok
<ajmitch> also, add in the copyright years in debian/copyright
<ajmitch> so it's Copyright (C) xxxx-yyyy Author
<TMM> after copyright-holder?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and check if it's GPL 2 or later
<ajmitch> or just GPL 2
<ajmitch> hmm
<TMM> it's or later
<ajmitch> show me
<ajmitch> some files in there are listed as 'wxWindows license'
<ajmitch>  // Copyright:   (c) Alex Thuering
<ajmitch>  // Licence:     wxWindows licence
<TMM> actually
<TMM> it just says  It is free software  distributed under GNU General Public License (GPL).
<ajmitch> :)
<TMM> and links to the GPL v2...
<ajmitch> most people don't follow the instructions when licensing their software
<TMM> I'll just say 'gpl v2' and remove the or later
<TMM> also, I can't find a year anywhere
<TMM> apparently, the first release was 2004
<ajmitch> programmers aren't trained lawyers, in most cases ;)
<TMM> so I can just say copyright (c) 2004-2005
<TMM> right?
<TMM> well, wxwindows license is the LGPL with the provision that binary only derived workes are allowed
<TMM> and you can relicense LGPL software to GPL
<TMM> so saying it is GPL v2 is correct
<TMM> do you agree?
<ajmitch> best to list both of them
<ajmitch> eg saying that portions are licensed with the wxWindows license
<ajmitch> and put that license in there
<TMM> OK
<TMM> how do I word that?
<bddebian> Bed time for this old man.  Gnight gang
<TMM> at the end of copying just add "portions are licencend blablah blah" and stick the license underneath that?
<ajmitch> at the top of debian/copyright, where you say what the license is
<ajmitch> iirc
* ajmitch hasn't done much where works have multiple licenses
<TMM> you don't...
<TMM> you never state that in one scentense
<TMM> ajmitch, http://www.opensource.org/licenses/wxwindows.txt
<ajmitch> yes, I've seen it
<ajmitch> but as it allows extra permissions beyond what LGPL does, you should list them
* ajmitch votes for 'educating' the author to actually put these in his tarball, rather than just stating 'wxwindows licence'
<TMM> should I just append /usr/share/doc/libwxbase2.4/copyright ?
<ajmitch> might as well try
<ajmitch> could be a good idea to get advice from someone other than myself ;)
<TMM> pbuild worked fine
<TMM> I'll try to just append it
<TMM> Part of this sourcecode is covered under the wxwindows license V3.
<TMM> These include the wxVillaLib/ and wxXML/ subdirectories and the src/hyperlink.cpp and
<TMM> src/hyperlink.h files.
<TMM> then the text from /usr/share/doc/libwxbase2.4/copyright
<ajmitch> looks good
<TMM> ok, I think I've fixed everything then
<TMM> pbuilder agrees :)
<TMM> lintian agrees
<TMM> linda agrees
<ajmitch> pbuilder & lintian only catch certain issues, remember :)
<TMM> meh
<TMM> you seem to somewhat agree now :)
<ajmitch> only the checks that people have automated
<TMM> uploading...
<TMM> I thought you where checking manually as well :)
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> I've done some manual checks :)
<TMM> should I advocate it myself?
<ajmitch> you can't
<TMM> there is a checkbox 'advocate this upload'
<ajmitch> advocating means that a MOTU has checked it off :)
<TMM> ow, I don't think I am one :) (yet)
<TMM> are you
<TMM> ?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> you'd know if you were
<ajmitch> because then you'd be able to upload to ubuntu ;)
<TMM> so... will you be advocating now? :)
<TMM> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=740
<ajmitch> once I've checked over a few more things - probably later tonight
<TMM> ajmitch, what else could be wrong? just so I know if I ever want to check other peoples packages
<ajmitch> I don't know what might be wrong until I look :P
<TMM> lol
<TMM> I want to become a motu too at some point, I'd like to know what I need to be looking for :)
<TMM> you already gave me a lot of pointers btw, you are a very nice person, thank you
<ajmitch> you learn by experience :)
<TMM> still, you helped me out quite a bit! :)
<ajmitch> currently we do a lot more fixing packages than making them, but that should change in a week or two
<TMM> I'll be doing more packages
<TMM> is universe freezed after a release too?
<TMM> I'd like to chip in to help to fix things as well, but on the FTBFS site's packages, I can't find any meaningfull logs :) a lot can me removed imho
<ajmitch> universe freezes at release
<ajmitch> sorry, had to get dinner from oven
<TMM> np
<TMM> and, release is like, in 2 days, right? :)
<ajmitch> 5
<TMM> ok
<TMM> I somehow remembered it was on the 10th
<ajmitch> ok, I'll bbl
<TMM> later
<tritium> I can't get anyone to sync xfig.  I emailed elmo last night, and neither him nor Kamion is active now.
<pef_aw> TMM: hello
<pef> TMM: s/unstable/breezy/ for debian/changelog :)
<TMM> pef, d*mn :)
<TMM> stupid dh_make
<TMM> :P
<pef> TMM: and maybe add Homepage: http://foo.org to debian/control description
<pef> On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU General
<pef> Public License can be found in `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL'.
<pef> TMM: debian/copyright : it's /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2'.
<TMM> pef, thanks
<pef> TMM: thank you for packaging :)
<TMM> what line should the Homepage: god?
<pef> TMM: the last ?
<TMM> ok
<pef> TMM: look for examples, like apt-cache show kvpnc
<TMM> I made all the change
<TMM> ok!
<TMM> should that Bugs: thing be there too?
<siretart> morning
<pef> TMM: no
<pef> siretart: hello
<siretart> Lathiat: pong
<siretart> hi pef
<TMM> pef, then I think I did it all now, uploading... (Again) ;)
<TMM> pef, one day I'll do this all right in one go :P
<pef> TMM: experience, experience, and experience :] 
<TMM> pef, did I handle the dual licensing thing right in debian/copyright you think?
<TMM> uploading... (agian) :)
<TMM> done :)
<TMM> can't have enough revisions, that's what my mother used to say
<pef> TMM: I think you should look how others packages handle this
<pef> I don't want to tell you something wrong
<TMM> pef, do you know a package that has a dual license?
<pef> TMM: packages using wxgtk I believe ? try apt-cache rdepends libwxgtk2.6-0
<TMM> the wxwindows license is basically a dual license
<TMM> you can choose to use it as LGPL
<pef> s/wxwindows/wxwidget :] 
<TMM> well, whatever :P
<pef> TMM: mm amule copyright file doesn't mention this at all
<TMM> no, it doesn't have to
<TMM> but, dvdstyler actually INCLUDES some wx stuff wxXML and wxVillaLib
<TMM> in it's source release
<TMM> well, there doesn't really seem to be a 'form' for this, I'll just leave it at this
<TMM> pef, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=741
<TMM> pef, does that address all your concernes?
<pef> TMM: You can set debian/control:Standards-Version to 3.6.2.1 (to get the current version, get the version of debian-policy package, with $ dpkg -l|grep debian-policy for example)
<TMM> meh, it got newer while I was working on it then :)
<TMM> I already bumped it once
<pef> TMM: and your diff seems a little bit huge :)
<pef> contains autotools-dev stuff
<pef> a diff must be as small as possible, to makes revision by a MOTU easier and faster
<TMM> I was told to do it like this, because running autoconf and friends would be 'evil' according to ajmitch
<TMM> from rules
<TMM> all it does is remove some of the documents from the makefile
<pef> I think a 500Kb diff is evil too :]  but ask confirmation to a MOTU
<TMM> ajmitch, says he is a motu :)
<pef> TMM: you can't delete this with a rules:clean target ?
<TMM> isn't that even MORE evil?
* TMM thinks so
<TMM> I'll just explain in a comment
<pef> TMM: sometimes upstream tarball is very dirty :/
<TMM> it was in this case...
<TMM> very ugly debian/ dir... I had to modify the orig.tar.gz
<TMM> I tried very hard to not do that, but, I couldn't avoid it
<pef> TMM: I had theses two problems with kvpnc, so I wrote a target to modify the upstream tarball, look at kvpnc source package, get-orig-source target
<TMM> pef, I don't like that very much...
<TMM> I'm not saying you are wrong or anything :)
<TMM> I'm not in a position to :P
<TMM> I suppose, I could have patched Makefile.in and not re-run auto* ...
<TMM> although, that *IS* rather dirty as well :)
<TMM> ajmitch, what do you think?
<pef> TMM: it's a way some people here gave to me, and it's an official debian solution
<TMM> I think I'll try to patch the Makefile.in
<TMM> it's a tad eleborate for such a small change imho
<ivoks> morning
<Diablo-D3> <-- TyrantSabre has quit (Quit: <[Drum] > "Street Fighter Alpha mega super turtle mission XX guilty pleasure fanservice volleyball beash mega smash gear tron robot uber ulta turbo dash pause breathe tardo poptart 2!" <Skye_Alpha> You forgot Chapionship Edition)
<sivang> MOrning MOTUS
<sivang> What's up all??
<TMM> pef, yeah, this works just fine :)
<ivoks> hi
<TMM> and now, the diff.gz is only 6.5kb :)
<zakame> 3 pm here :D
<sivang> hey ivoks
<sivang> zakame: you shoudl go to sleep dude, or else :)
<ivoks> most of my packages have bad C/C++ instructions :(
<zakame> sivang: nah, I've had my siesta :)
<sivang> zakame: lol
<TMM> meh, I only slept for 2 hours, and I'm fine... ish
<TMM> ;)
<TMM> no more hugeness
<TMM> :)
<zakame> TMM: w00t!
<pef> TMM: the problem is you just moved the stuff :/
<mikhail^> ivoks: need help with that?
<TMM> pef, I didn't move anything, did I?
<TMM> pef, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=743
<ivoks> mikhail^: if you have time...
<mikhail^> ivoks: which package is that?
<ivoks> mikhail^: redboot, rivet, rockdodger... :))
<pef> TMM: sorry ;)
<TMM> it feels a bit dirty though :)
<mikhail^> ivoks: lemme pick one. :)
<ivoks> mikhail^: wait...
<ivoks> mikhail^: i'll tell you which one, since most of them have same errors
<TMM> pef, you think this is OK?
<TMM> LOL, I did 10 dput's already...
<ivoks> mikhail^: go with rockrodger :)
<mikhail^> ivoks: you mean rockdodger?
<ivoks> mikhail^: yup
<pef> TMM: seems ok for, but it must be ok for a MOTU :)
<TMM> I just wondered if patching the Makefile.in isn't a bit tooo dirty :)
<siretart> err. marillat has been using revu?!
<siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=617
<mikhail^> ivoks: it's supposed to build?
<siretart> impossible..
<TMM> siretart, just use http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=743 that acutally works ;)
<TMM> :P
<ivoks> mikhail^: it dies on me
<mikhail^> ivoks: it says what when it dies on you?
<ivoks> mikhail^: it should build, but, heh, it returns "array type has incomplete element type"
<ivoks> mikhail^: main.c:209
* TMM plugs :)
<mikhail^> ivoks: hmmm...
<ivoks> crap :)
<siretart> ah, thats an old upload from ivoks.. okay
<ivoks> i runned buildpackage -d, to check out which libs this package is missing, since one in build-depends isn't in ubuntu...
<ivoks> and... funny thing... package build inspite that :)
<pef> TMM: ugly, because # Makefile.in generated by automake 1.6.3 from Makefile.am. IMHO :/
<ivoks> siretart: ?
<TMM> pef, I *know*
<siretart> ivoks: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=617 has a signature of a key of yours
<TMM> pef, but, for one package, it doesn't really matter... as this is basically the same as what re-running automake does, kinda, but without a 500kb patch
<ivoks> siretart: ah, that one is allready uploaded
<ivoks> siretart: kill it from revu, it was a mistake
<mikhail^> ivoks: i know. I'll send you a patch.
<siretart> done
<ivoks> mikhail^: thanks! :)
<ivoks> mikhail^: you know the address?
<mikhail^> ivoks: nope.
<mikhail^> :D
<ivoks> mikhail^: ivoks at ubuntu.com
<pef> TMM: and if it needs to be regenerated for something else than x86 ?
<TMM> pef, good point...
<TMM> ok... can I remove an upload?? :)
<TMM> I knew this, but I didn't think about it...
<TMM> pef, it doesn't need to be regenerated
<TMM> pef, obviously... the .in file is complemented by ./configure, that handles all the platform specific stuff
<TMM> I knew it, didn't think about it, and turned out that I didn't need to think about it :P
<pef> TMM: if Makefile.in is generated from Makefile.am by automake, why don't just delete it ?
<mikhail^> ivoks: sending...
<mikhail^> ivoks: sent. :)
<ivoks> mikhail^: thanks!
<mikhail^> ivoks: lemme know if it makes a difference... ;)
* mikhail^ has no time to test it on his system. :)
<ivoks> will do
<TMM> pef, Makefile.am you mean?
<pef> TMM: .in, generated from .am
<TMM> pef, I know
<TMM> I don't think it matters much, if you do the patch approach however you do it, it's going to go *boom* if you change something
<TMM> the only 'good' way would be to just patch Makefile.am and run auto*
<TMM> but I was told that would be bad because you'd tie the package to a specific auto* version
<mikhail^> zakame: welcome back. :)
<ivoks> mikhail^: good job man :)
<zakame> mikhail^: thanks :)
<pef> TMM: it's why I like the get-orig-source target : you clean everything wrong on upstream tarball, and you're fine
<mikhail^> ivoks: it works?
<ivoks> mikhail^: yes, still lots of warnings, but, well...
<mikhail^> ivoks: lemme finish my thesis manuscript and I'd love hacking at it with you someday. :)
<ivoks> possible ftbs on 64bit, but that i'll have to check..
<TMM> pef, what I don't like about it is that if at buildtime sf.net is down (which isn't quite imaginary) it'll fail to build
<mikhail^> ivoks: but does it "play" and not crash on you anymore?
<pef> TMM: every solution has it's problems, the game is to find the one who has less than others :D
* pef is curious to find kguitar uploader :] 
<TMM> if you have to change upstream I'd rather change orig.tar.gz than download it, change it, then save it... the net-result is the same
<TMM> a .orig.tar.gz that isn't actually the original
<zakame> hmmm, is the lighttpd license accepted by ubuntu?
<zakame> I read that it is a revised bsd license
<ivoks> i didn't play so stopid game for ages :))
<pef> TMM: but with the get-orig-target, for next release, chances are big that the target will work again, the patch less chances
<TMM> this last patch is actually rather resilient I think
<mikhail^> ivoks: hehehe
<TMM> unless they add a document they want to co-install from the root of the sourcetree
<TMM> which is rather unlikely to happen :)
<pef> TMM: ohh, and you can add a watchfile to your debian layout :)
<TMM> pef, care to explain? I've got no idea what that is
<pef> TMM: you run uscan, and it tells you if a new release is available
<TMM> uscan...
* TMM is clueless
<pef> TMM: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-watch
<ivoks> who writes this programs?! :)
<ivoks> it has two different declarations for same type :)
<TMM> pef, is that useful
<TMM> ?
<pef> TMM: to upgrade to next release, yes. You have version 0.8, release 0.9 is out. You run uscan, it retrieves 0.9 sources, you run uupdate, and 0.9 version is packaged using 0.8 debian layout
<pef> it has certainly other advantages, but I'm not a package master :)
<TMM> I'll just do it manual for this package :)
<pef> bbl later, go to post office
<mikhail^> ivoks: which one are you talking about?
<ivoks> mikhail^: um... zopex3
<ivoks> it's unfixable
<mikhail^> ivoks: it's in python?
<ivoks> it declares two different types with same name
<mikhail^> ivoks: i couldn't help you with that then... :D
<ivoks> it's ok
* mikhail^ doesn't do python.
<mikhail^> hehehehe
<mikhail^> << will do C/C++ but will not touch Python
<mikhail^> gtg peeps... gotta get out of the house.
<pef> FTBS = fail to build ... ?
<ivoks> source
<pef> thanks
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> urrggghh!
<TMM> what happens to my package on revu if it's not accepted before breezy? will it get another chance for dapper?
<spayne> hi gang
<spayne> does anyone know what happened to resapplet?
<Yagisan> TMM: should do
<Yagisan> TMM: mine missed breezy - to I'm targeting dapper
<TMM> I am not sure if it missed breezy or not
<TMM> the package should be fine for dapper too, I'm sure
<Yagisan> TMM: considering breezy is out in a few days -  If you haven't got sponsors by now - it missed breezy
<TMM> I only uploaded yesterday :)
<TMM> doesn't matter
<ivoks> hi
<TMM> hi
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> TMM: could you try something for me?
<spayne> ivoks: mornin
<ivoks> any1 here?
<ivoks> spayne: hi
<ivoks> could someone run gnome-cups-add and tell me if it crashes for him?
<spayne> ivoks: do you have any idea what is going on with resapplet?
<spayne> ivoks: doing it now
<spayne> ivoks: no
<ivoks> hm
<spayne> ivoks: added a printer and removed it without problems
<ivoks> res applet?
<ivoks> wich one is that?
<spayne> ivoks: the one i packaged :)
<TMM> ivoks, sure
<ivoks> revu?
<Yagisan> ivoks: G'day - hows the raid ?
<spayne> ivoks: tseng uploaded it IIRC and was waiting for elmo
<ivoks> Yagisan: pending monday :)
<TMM> ivoks, if you tell me what it is :)
<ivoks> TMM: run gnome-cups-add
<ivoks> TMM: and tell me if it crashes
<ivoks> spayne: resapplet is the name of source?
<spayne> ivoks: yes
<ivoks> spayne: no souch source anywhere :/
<ivoks> spayne: not uploaded
<spayne> ivoks: i am a totally new guy - not MOTU, not Member (applying on Tues)
<TMM> ** (gnome-cups-add:22332): WARNING **: Two ppds have driver == 'hpijs (recommended)'
<TMM>         ->hplip/HP-PSC_2500-hpijs.ppd (HP PSC 2500 Foomatic/hpijs[1] ) and
<TMM>         ->foomatic-ppds/hplip/HP-PSC_2500-hpijs.ppd (HP PSC 2500 Foomatic/hpijs)[1] 
<TMM> no crash though
<TMM> seems to be ok
<ivoks> TMM: ok, thanks
<Yagisan> ivoks: gnome-cups-add works for me - ehat version do you want tested ?
<Yagisan> s/ehat/what
<ivoks> Yagisan: last one
<spayne> tseng: ping
<ivoks> spayne: where did you upload your source?
<spayne> ivoks: i didn't because my GPG isn't signed
<spayne> ivoks: loads of MOTUs checked it out
<ivoks> spayne: where?
<spayne> ivoks: so it didn't need to go through REVU
<spayne> ivoks: the sources are on my webserver - let me get the link
<Yagisan> ivoks: well - I don't have any gnome upgrades pending - so that should have been the latest
<TMM> ivoks, should it crash?
<ivoks> TMM: ofcourse not :)
<ivoks> probably some mistake in my ubuntu :)
<spayne> ivoks: http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet/
<spayne> i have just found this bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/gnome-blog/+bug/2957
<TMM> ivoks, I've got 0.31-0ubuntu3 of gnome-cups-manager installed, not sure if that is the right packag
<spayne> should i fix gnome-blog as it suggests
<TMM> ivoks, it is :)
<ivoks> spayne: i'll do it
<spayne> ivoks: bddebian, tseng and dholbach have all checked it through
<TMM> am I supposed to be able to advocate my own package?
<TMM> on revu?
<spayne> ivoks: will it upset tseng?
<ivoks> TMM: no :)
<ivoks> spayne: gnome-blog?
<ivoks> spayne: no
<TMM> I just advocated my own package?
<TMM> I just wanted to test :P
<spayne> ivoks: just trying to find some bugs in malone that can be fixed
<ivoks> spayne: but i don't know what's with your package... i'll leave that to tseng
<spayne> ivoks: so, should i close that bug?
<ivoks> spayne: no
<spayne> ivoks: should i change gnome-blog?
<TMM> removed it again, probably not fair :)
<ivoks> spayne: no
<spayne> ivoks: can i do anything?
<sivang> guys, any left MOTU work to do ? I want to get some packages uploaded with me on the changlog :)
<ivoks> sivang: :))
<TMM> me too, me too!
* TMM jumps up and down
<spayne> ivoks: just trying to find some bugs to fix or stuff to get done for Breezy
* spayne would also like to help out with the final bits and pieces
<ivoks> spayne: you can provide diff for packages you want to fix
<sivang> hmm, Daniel is not here
<Yagisan> yay - wesnoth 1.0 appeared in my updates list :)
<ivoks> anyway... gnome-blog is broken :)
<spayne> ivoks: packages i want to fix? diff?
<sivang> ivoks: ok, what are you currently striving to get working? are the transitions all overs?
<ivoks> sivang: you want to do something? :)
<sivang> ivoks: I was busy with lpi stuff and other main related, but now I am writing some BOFs and in the background I figured I' help the MOTUs some bits
<sivang> ivoks: yep, anything interesting ?
<ivoks> sivang: yup, tons of stuff :)
<ivoks> sivang: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<sivang> uh-ha!
<spayne> ivoks: do you know any bugs/packages that need fixing?
<sivang> can you sponser my uploads? my Key is not signed yet...
<ivoks> spayne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<ivoks> uh :)
<ivoks> am i the only motu here? :))
<markuman> ivoks: :-)
<ivoks> i can't server you all guys in the same time :)
<ivoks> s/server/serve
<spayne> ivoks: what does FTBFS mean btw?
<ivoks> faild to build source
<sivang> ivoks: technically speaking, I am a MOTU already :) but until my key is signed in UBZ i can't upload myself
<markuman> ivoks: but you can vote for may upload on revu :-)
<TMM> ivoks, would you mind looking my package over for me? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=743 if you have the time? I think I've got everything right now :) just want to make sure
<ivoks> sivang: ah, that doesn't change a thing for me :)
<ivoks> omg
<sivang> lol
<ivoks> TMM: not good
<TMM> ivoks, to ask?
<ivoks> TMM: you can't change Makefile directly
<ivoks> TMM: all your changes must be inside debian tree
<ivoks> TMM: nothing outside of it
<TMM> ivoks, I don't get it, what do you mean?
<TMM> and it was Makefile.in
<TMM> :)
<ivoks> TMM: that's irrelevant
<ivoks> ok, for everybody
<ivoks> all changes that packager is doing, must be inside debian/ subdirectory
<TMM> ivoks, I'ts being patched with dpatch
<TMM> ivoks, and that patch lives in debian/patches
<ivoks> TMM: uh, sorry
<ivoks> TMM: i saw you comment (about patching directly) :)
<TMM> ivoks, this a better comment? :)
<spayne> ivoks: sorry to bother you but i thought i'd look at ooqstart as it looks simple
<spayne> ivoks: do i download the source and attempt to build it?
<ivoks> spayne: apt-get source ooqstart
<ivoks> spayne: and then, inside of it, fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage
<spayne> ivoks: thanks man - sorry to bother you
<ivoks> TMM: why didn't you just change upstream debian/?
<TMM> ivoks, because there seemed to be a lot missing
<TMM> and it has a files file
<Yagisan> TMM: your package looks ok at the moment (may be problems with the source repack though). When I get some time I'll check it on amd64/i386
<TMM> that 'files' file gives a lot of trouble
<Yagisan> TMM: check out debnest
<TMM> dpkg won't pick it up if you remove it, and so, it stays in the package, lintian complains that autobuilds will fail
<markuman> wb \sh :-)
<sivang> hey \sh  :)
<spayne> \sh: yo
<TMM> Yagisan, what is debnest?
<spayne> \sh: do you know what is going on with my resapplet package?
<ivoks> everybody, abuse \sh now :)
<\sh> moins
<\sh> just got up now...and trying to fix xterm...so I'm busy ;)
<ivoks> \sh: morning
<Yagisan> TMM: Its for upstream sources that have problems like included /debian dirs
<\sh> ivoks: absuing me? when why and who? ,-)
<Yagisan> TMM: search for it in aptitude
<TMM> Yagisan, I read the writeup, but, will that solve that files problem?
<ivoks> \sh: all the motu helpers here
<ivoks> \sh: when? all the time :)
<ivoks> \sh: please, help me... i can't do them 5 in the same time :)
<TMM> Yagisan, if you remove it, and build the package, it will stay there, because dpkg things it shound be there, and leaves it in the dsc, or something, at least, it gets packaged :)
<\sh> *rotfl*
<Yagisan> TMM: I don't know - it may help (I've never used it - but it looks useful)
<ivoks> markuman: this loks ok, i'll try building it
<\sh> ivoks: ok what's up? I just try to fix xterm and after that I have to go shopping
<\sh> and then I will fix universe ;)
<markuman> ivoks: ok
<TMM> Yagisan, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=316 note " chaning .orig from upstream tar is standard practice for removing debian directories etc. "
<ivoks> \sh: ok, then, when you get back...
<\sh> ivoks: no come on what is it?
<Yagisan> TMM: not always - but I'm not the one to convince (I have to do a dfsg repack on mine =-O )
<ivoks> markuman: one remark...
<TMM> Yagisan, dfsg?
<ivoks> markuman: config.guss and config.sub shouldn't be in diff
<TMM> Yagisan, isn't that security related or something?
<pef> Yagisan: and what do you think about the get-orig-source target to clean upstream tarball ?
<Yagisan> TMM: Debian Free Software Guidelines
<TMM> ahh
<markuman> hm
<Yagisan> pef: I haven't used that yet - but it should also be useful
<ivoks> markuman: not big deal..
<Yagisan> TMM: my upstream needs a licensing cluebat or 2
<TMM> IMHO it's not good to depend on 3rd party mirrors, it might make it impossible to apt-get source
<TMM> in fact
<Yagisan> TMM: I have to rip 66% of the features out =-O
<pef> Yagisan: I think it's a clean way to make changes to upstream tarball because it's autodocumented, so ne needs to add something to readme.debian
<TMM> if you use get-orig-source and the mirror that it points to is down, debian might be in GPL violation :P
<TMM> if you want to get anal about it
* \sh needs to change window managers :(
<TMM> Yagisan, what package are you referring to?
<Yagisan> pef: we could - but I'd more then likely manually repack myself
<Yagisan> TMM: mine ? deng
<TMM> ahhh
<TMM> I've seen a whole host of packages for that
<Yagisan> TMM: :) yeah - I sent about 40% of my repo to revu - the data packages need license clarifications too
<TMM> lol
<TMM> pef, I said that GPL violation thing a little bit to spite you, but, if you think about it a bit, I think it is actually true. If the upstream site ceases to exist, and you can't provide sources because of that...
<Yagisan> TMM: I think I concerned siretart when I asked how much space he had - right before uploading that :-D
<ivoks> \sh: take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=744 - looks ok to me, got my advocate
<Yagisan> TMM, pef - I would decide that on a case by case basis - depending on the package - and it's upstream mirrors
<ivoks> \sh: please :)
<pef> ok :] 
<\sh> doing so
<TMM> owww, do I get an advocate too? :P
<\sh> ivoks: hmmm
<ivoks> \sh: yes?
<TMM> Yagisan, the mirror is sf.net... you'd have to use sfget or something or directly link to one mirror, which kind of defeats the purpose :)
<TMM> plus, sf.net...
<ivoks> \sh: i know, config.guess and .sub...
<ivoks> autoconf is evil :)
<ivoks> as is automake :)
<\sh> ivoks: no copyright ;)
<ivoks> \sh: ?
<ivoks> \sh: there is copyright
<\sh> yes..but should be there at least the very special paragraph?
<ivoks> \sh: like...?
<\sh> ivoks: http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/2874
<\sh> ivoks: this is from gcl
<ivoks> \sh: afaik, this isn't must have
<ivoks> \sh: copyright states under what license software is issued
<ivoks> \sh: and it gives you direction where to read it
<\sh> ivoks: but there was something written in the debian maintainer guide...
<\sh> who did point me to that
<ivoks> \sh: if you check packages, most of them don't have this
<pef> TMM: about the sf.net mirror, someone has wrote a script to manage sf.net mirrors
<TMM> pef, sfget
<TMM> :)
<ivoks> \sh: check out gnome-games-data :)
<\sh> - debian/copyright is a bit small... must include the full 3 paragraphs (including warranty stuff, etc)
<ivoks> \sh: it has even less info :)
<\sh> slomo pointed me
<pef> TMM: oh I doesn't know this tools :)
<ivoks> \sh: hm...
<SloMoSnail> hi everybody
<ivoks> \sh: then we should repackage most of main and universe :)
<\sh> ivoks: doesn't matter...builds fine and looks ok
<\sh> ivoks: upload ;)
<ivoks> let me :)
<slomo> \sh: ajmitch told me that this is a must ;)
<sivang> what is popcon?
<sivang> what's all those talking about managing a sf.net repo?
<ivoks> slomo: what is a must?
<ivoks> slomo: copyright? that's right...
<sivang> (/me apologizes for the trying to get in sync questions)
<slomo> ivoks: yes
<ivoks> slomo: but we don't have to have GPL in copyright, and then on the bottom link to that same GPL again
<ivoks> slomo: most of packages in main and universe don't have so much of GPL in copyright file
<\sh> ivoks: it was a request to you to upload, yes ;)
<ivoks> slomo: just info about where, who and where is GPL :)
* sivang thinks he should subscribe to ubuntu-motu
<slomo> ivoks: no, not the complete gpl but these 3 paragraphs afaik
<ivoks> slomo: hm... i don't see a point, since there is a link to full GPL
<Yagisan> slomo: G'day slomo
<ivoks> markuman: pending upload ;)
<slomo> ivoks: i mean this 3: "copyright (c) bla" "this program is free software...under the terms of the GPL..." "this program ... comes with no warranty"
<ivoks> slomo: i know...
<slomo> ivoks: they don't include the license but only point out under which license this can be used and outlines some parts of the license
<ivoks> slomo: ok, we can agree that this should be policy
<TMM> ivoks, apart from the thing that ISN'T wrong with my package :P is there anything wrong?
<markuman> yeah thx ivoks and \sh :-)
<ivoks> TMM: relax, one by one... i'll check your package now...
<slomo> ivoks: ok... and when it's no license in /usr/share/wherever the complete license must be copied into copyright, correct?
<ivoks> slomo: yes
<TMM> ivoks, :) just kidding, I thought it was a cool scentense :)
<Yagisan> TMM: calm down - some of us are testing it
<Yagisan> TMM: damm lag - it was a joke
<slomo> ivoks: ok, then we have the same opinion now ;) but do we really have a policy somewhere? i only know about the debian one
<ivoks> slomo: we don't, that's the problem
<ivoks> slomo: we should disccuss this on next motu meeting
<ivoks> slomo: and till then, just go as we did till now
<ivoks> slomo: althoug, imho, this isn't issue at all, since there is a link to full license and, well, suits are pleased :)
<Yagisan> slomo, ivoks: I thought what wasn't explicitly stated as Ubuntu policy - was the same as Debian policy
<slomo> ivoks: maybe we should start writing something before as a draft the meeting so people can better decide?
<ivoks> slomo: be my guest :)
<slomo> ivoks: and i think we don't need to copy everything from the debian policy ;)
<ivoks> slomo: well, we don't go to far from it, since we do take packages from debian :)
<ivoks> slomo: so, we don't want to do too much work that's obsolete
<ivoks> TMM: what's your package?
<slomo> ivoks: ok... i'll write it on my todo list but i can't promise that i can write something before the meeting ;) when is the meeting?
<ivoks> TMM: tmm isn't much descriptive nickname :)
<TMM> ivoks, dvdauthor
<TMM> ivoks, dvdSTYLER
<TMM> :)
<TMM> sorry
<ivoks> slomo: 19th
<ivoks> i love evolution-data-center :)
<Yagisan> TMM: FTBFS amd64
<TMM> Yagisan, got a log?
<ivoks> :/
<ivoks> cdbs?
<Yagisan> TMM: where do you want the log mailed
<ivoks> nice... if that's your work :)
<TMM> Yagisan, address on the revu please :)
<TMM> ivoks, cdbs not good?
<ivoks> it is...
<TMM> Yagisan, I don't have an amd64 here...
<ivoks> TMM: maybe you should consider simple patch system for cdbs
<ivoks> TMM: but that's only suggestion
<TMM> ivoks, ajmitch told me to use dpatch :)
<ivoks> Yagisan: give me that log too :)
<ivoks> TMM: ok :)
<ivoks> TMM:
<ivoks> TMM: TIMTOWTDI
<TMM> ???
<ivoks> There Is More Than One Way To Do It
<TMM> ahhh
<TMM> I understand that :)
<TMM> I tried to do it the 'motu' way :)\
<TMM> or something
<Yagisan> TMM: mailed - ivoks: where too ?
<ivoks> Yagisan: ivoks at ubuntu.com
<slomo> hmm... where's dholbach :(
<TMM> Yagisan, thanks
<Yagisan> ivoks: mailed
<slomo> hmm... siretart? if i make a derivate of a package in main... i.e. add a build-depend and don't change anything else (except package names and a conflict/provide)... must it be uploaded to revu or can it go directly up?
<Yagisan> I'm happy to build packages on amd64 and mail the logs to people without access to an amd64
<ivoks> Yagisan: simple one
<ivoks> TMM: will you fix it or should I do it?
<TMM> ivoks, I still don't have the log...
<ivoks> TMM: ok
<TMM> ivoks, I'd rather fix it myself, and have one package done all by me :)
<Yagisan> TMM: your mail must be slow
<TMM> Yagisan, apparently
<ivoks> TMM: /me has it's own mail server :)
<ivoks> with three AV, two spam checkers and .procmailrc :)
<TMM> I have root on my mailserver too :P
<TMM> so booohoooo
<TMM> :P
<ivoks> TMM: then fix your mailserver :)
<Yagisan> ivoks: I just use gmail and yahoo.com.au as spam filtering relays
<ivoks> um... /me needs help :/
<Yagisan> ivoks: (my office is accessible to small children - no server survives unscathed :( )
<ivoks> how do i sign packages from other people?
<ivoks> i did dpkg-buildpackage -S -kivoks@ubuntu.com
<ivoks> signed it and upload it
<ivoks> but it seems to get droped
<TMM> Yagisan, still don't have it...
<TMM> Yagisan, thanks
<ivoks> TMM: it's a c++ error
<Yagisan> TMM: you are the first person in a long time that's worked for
<\sh> ivoks: aehm...taskmanager?
<\sh> ivoks: if yes, you should check debuild -S -sa -kivoks@ubuntu.com
<TMM> Yagisan, DCC sends?
<ivoks> ah, right
<\sh> ivoks: because it's new and new source ;)
<Yagisan> TMM: yep
<ivoks> \sh: yup, my mistake
<\sh> ok..one more cigarette and then shoppin
<\sh> g
<\sh> xterm is upstream and he responded already
<Yagisan> anyone here use ltsp ?
<Yagisan> if so - who wants to test the beginnings of a multi-client-arch patch I'm starting ?
<ivoks> i have to go too...
<ivoks> see you all
<TMM> Yagisan, I think I've got it
<TMM> please hold :)
<Yagisan> Bye ivoks
<TMM> Yagisan, will you stick around for a bit to test it please?
<Yagisan> TMM: I'm here for a while - I'm woring on the ltsp stuff for work
<Yagisan> TMM: I might disappear occasionally (small kids + dinner soon)
<TMM> great!
<TMM> this won't take long
<Yagisan> s/woring/working
<TMM> Yagisan, thanks
* \sh goes shopping
<Yagisan> bye \sh
<\sh> thinking of buying some pumpkins for halloween during UBZ ,-)
<TMM> Yagisan, found them?
<Yagisan> TMM: getting to it
<TMM> no rush
<Lathiat> siretart: ping?
<siretart> Lathiat: pong
<Lathiat> siretart: my account on revu, i cant remember the password
<Lathiat> but if i get a gpg thing
<Lathiat> it decrypts blank
<Lathiat> so i figure its perhaps broken not i forgot it
<siretart> I'll check
<siretart> Lathiat: http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw?email=siretart@tauware.de decrypts correctly for me.. huh?
<siretart> Lathiat: what was your gpg key again?
<Lathiat> lathiat@bur.st
<Lathiat> key id DFC55597
<siretart> strange that key IS in the keyring
<Lathiat> like i can decrypt it just it comes out blank
<Lathiat> i'll try again
<Lathiat> ditto
<siretart> http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw?email=lathiat@bur.st
<siretart> this is the email you are using, yes?
<Lathiat> ya
<Lathiat> thats what i went to
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> how can i make it decrypt output to a file
<Lathiat> rather than stdout
<Lathiat> maybe it doesnt have a newline
<Lathiat> and its getting overwritten
<Lathiat> or something
<siretart> ah, thats of corse possible
<siretart> Lathiat: I mailed your password
<Yagisan> siretart: could you add me to reviewer status at revu - so I can leave comments re: working or not on amd64 ?
<Lathiat> ok
<Yagisan> siretart: I just tested TMMs package - and I'd like to leave a note that it works
<Lathiat> ok i loged in now
<Lathiat> thanks
<Lathiat> can i change that password?
<siretart> by mailing me a new one :/
<Lathiat> haha
<siretart> or better: keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<tseng> im a big fan of ff 1.5
<Lathiat> ff 1.5 ?
<tseng> firefox beta
<siretart> Yagisan: you arn't motu yet, are you?
<siretart> Yagisan: the thing is, that reviewing is bound to advocating rights, in the current implementation
<Yagisan> siretart: No - I'm not a motu. I do check the packages out and see if they abuild on amd64 though
<Yagisan> siretart: I can't advocate - I can only do a basic portablity check
<siretart> jupp. thats right
<siretart> sorry, this is not possible, yet. will come with revu
<siretart> 2
<Yagisan> siretart: ok
<\sh> re
<Lathiat> Fuddl: yo, left some comments on your quake3-data upload
<Fuddl> Lathiat: k, i'll have a look at them later
<Lathiat> Fuddl: just minor stuff, otherwise the rest is good
<Fuddl> jieehaa! :)
<Fuddl> minor stuff sounds good :)
<siretart> like ubuntu ;)
<Fuddl> not at the moment....
* siretart off - bye
<Fuddl> cu siretart
<slomo> bah... why is the wiki so slow today :(
<\sh> moins ogra
<ogra> hea
<ogra> *heya
<Lathiat> Fuddl: oh and yes, congrautlations on uploading a *real* native package ;p
<Fuddl> it wasn't my idea, i had a glance at quake2-data how they did the data-installer in that package
<tseng> what happens if you use shareware data
<tseng> is there a timer?
<tseng> or i guess just no levels
<Fuddl> upstream says, that pak-files from the demo won't work. well, i didn't try it at least, but a friend of mine reported it works fine
<Fuddl> so i left out the option to install demo data, to avoid bug reports now or in the future
<bddebian> Heya gang
<spayne> yo bddebian
<bddebian> Hello spayne
<bddebian> slomo: You around?
<slomo> yes
<bddebian> slomo: Do you have any idea why wxwidgets2.6 failed on the buildds?  It builds fine for me and the build-dep it seems to fail on is there..?
<slomo> bddebian: give me the buildlog :)
<bddebian> slomo: Mine or from the buildd?
<slomo> buildd
<bddebian> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wxwidgets2.6/2.6.1.1ubuntu4/
<bddebian> crimsun: You around?
<slomo> bddebian: i'll take a look after adding comments to the ftbfs page ;)
<bddebian> NP
<slomo> btw, we can remove all the mono stuff from there... ia64 has no mono and for all other archs everything builds
<bddebian> And someone needs to build gnat on PPC for me ;-P
<slomo> gnat was really big, wasn't it?
<slomo> bddebian: oh cool... i'll fix wxwidgets2.6... that looks interesting ;)
<bddebian> slomo: What's to fix?
<slomo> don't know yet... but it looks interesting ;)
<bddebian> slomo: I don't know if gnat is big but it's one that needs itself to build ;-P
<slomo> bddebian: talk to lamont/infinity... maybe they bootstrap it on the buildds
<\sh> bddebian: what about an old version of gnat using for the bootstrap process?
<bddebian> I don't have PPC :-)
<slomo> bddebian: does it work on other archs?
<TMM> Yagisan, finially, I got your email :P
<bddebian> I can't figure out where this libofx.la file is coming from in libofx :-(
<slomo> \sh: our evolution bug seems to be the same... the backtrace are _very_ similar
<bddebian> slomo: Just x86
<slomo> bddebian: libtool
<slomo> bddebian: and i look at it on my ibook later
<\sh> slomo: yepp
<\sh> slomo: evolution should take the imap stuff from kmail...which is working without any problems
<slomo> \sh: and the one from the other guy too... i hope they get it fixed before breezy ;) seems to be very common and it is annoying
<bddebian> slomo: It's no biggie but if you can, great
<slomo> bddebian: it's the gnu ada compiler, isn't it?
<bddebian> Yep
<slomo> ok, i'll take a look at it
<slomo> now... 2 packages at once ;)
<slomo> uh... 2 packages with 15 mb sources ;)
<bddebian> heh
<Yagisan> TMM: Finally - that's one slow email system you have
<TMM> yeah...
<TMM> normally it isn't that slow...
<bddebian> slomo: What I mean is.  For libofx I need to keep libofx2 from trying to install the .la files, but I think libofx-dev still needs them.
<slomo> err
<slomo> why don't you want the .la files installed?
<slomo> they _are_ needed
<slomo> but in the -dev package
<bddebian> Right, that is what I mean
<slomo> ok, so where's the problem now? ;)
<bddebian> the libofx2 binary shouldn't install them but the libofx-dev binary should.  Right?
<slomo> yes
<bddebian> That's what I need to do.  Do I just use .files files?
<slomo> yes... the -dev package should contain .a, .so and .la files for the libraries
<slomo> the other package should contain .so.*
<ivoks> \sh: ping
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> slomo: I know.  What I'm asking is how I do that properly? :-)
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<slomo> bddebian: look at my wavpack package for example ;)
<ivoks> hey all
<bddebian> slomo: OK, thx
<ivoks> how to upload other people's packages?
<slomo> bddebian: where does wxwidgets2.6*ubuntu4 come from? i only have ubuntu2
<ivoks> i can't get this right :/
<\sh> ivoks: what's the problem?
<ivoks> \sh: i signed as you told me, and it didn't get uploaded
<\sh> ivoks: what it says?
<ivoks> nothing
<ivoks> uploads, everything fine
<\sh> ivoks: well..yes.
<bddebian> slomo: Hmm, dunno, that's interesting
<\sh> ivoks: because katie sends the report to markuman
<ivoks> but never apears on server (silently droped?)
<slomo> bddebian: hmm... what do you get when you do apt-get source wxwidgets2.6?
<\sh> if he's not whitelisted you don't see anything
<ivoks> \sh: but it would apear on -changes, wouldn't it?
<\sh> ivoks: it stays now in NEW and elmo has to push it
<\sh> ivoks: no
<ivoks> \sh: ah, ok
<\sh> ivoks: until elmo frees it from NEW ;)
<ivoks> ok
<bddebian> slomo: ubuntu2 and when I built it locally it was ubuntu2
<\sh> markuman: are u whitelisted?
<ivoks> \sh: thanks
<slomo> bddebian: oh... we're all blind ;)
<slomo> bddebian: count the .1 in the failed version
<bddebian> hahaha
<slomo> bddebian: we have 2.6.1.1.1... 2.6.1.1 failed
<markuman> \sh imho no :-/ someone said its enough to be in the keyring
<slomo> bddebian: ugly version numbers
<\sh> markuman: please send a mail to upload@ubuntulinux.org and tell elmo to whitelist your email address
<bddebian> slomo: Should I just throw up the version I have then, or do you want to do it?
<slomo> bddebian: what did you "fix"?
<bddebian> slomo: Nothing :-)
<slomo> bddebian: just this ftbfs which wasn't there? ;)
<bddebian> Yep
<slomo> bddebian: ok, why do you want to upload then?
<markuman> \sh should i add my key in this mail?
<bddebian> slomo: For a rebuild.
<\sh> markuman: no
<markuman> ok thx
<slomo> bddebian: why do we need a rebuild?
<\sh> markuman: the key you'll need only in LP
<bddebian> ooohhh, nm
<bddebian> We don't have the binaries in the archive though??
<slomo> bddebian: hmm... we have since some weeks unless elmo deleted them
<bddebian> slomo: apt-cache madison wxwidgets2.6
<spayne> slomo: any news on ipod-sharp/banshee?
<slomo> bddebian: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wxwidgets2.6/
<slomo> bddebian: but i wonder where the amd64 stuff is :o
<slomo> bddebian: oh... it is there
<slomo> lol
<slomo> spayne: yes... abock is slow and i'm still waiting for him ;)
<bddebian> weird
<hwaara> hello everyone, I'm new to ubuntu and am interested in helping out fixing bugs.
<slomo> bddebian: why?
<bddebian> slomo: I couldn't see the binaries.. Hmm
* bddebian has too get off the crack
<slomo> bddebian: apt-get update?
<hwaara> is there some guide anywhere on how to start compiling and everything?
<hwaara> like what tools do I need etc.
<\sh> hwaara: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<bddebian> slomo: I update everyday :-)
<\sh> hwaara: and welcome to the universe :)
<hwaara> \sh, thanks! :)   ubuntu seems like the only sensible platform that actually makes an effort to be easy to use
<slomo> bddebian: scary
<\sh> hwaara: well...it's easy to use but hard to fix ;)
<hwaara> hehe
<hwaara> there are many things I want to fix upon first hour of using it
<bddebian> slomo: I think it's me.  It was 1:00am and I think I was expecting a wxwidgets2.6 binary.. :-(  The whole reason this started is that one of these should provide wxPython.h shouldn't it?
<hwaara> but I guess there are bugs for most of the issues I've encountered already
<slomo> bddebian: python-wxgtk2.6 maybe?
<slomo> bddebian: hm no
<slomo> bddebian: at least i have no wxPython.h installed...
<bddebian> slomo: Malone 2887
<slomo> bddebian: please url... ;)
<tseng> there is a bot for that
<hwaara> man, this seems hard.  what are the principles of fixing bugs in ubuntu? do I recompile it all when I've fixed something in a menu for example?
<slomo> tseng: show me how to use him ;)
<tseng> he is in #ubuntu-bugs
<tseng> maybe he should be here
<slomo> and how do i use him?
<tseng> you say malone #####
<tseng> and it spits out the summary and url
<ogra> tseng, nope, more people should be in -bugs rather :)
<tseng> i have so many channels =/
<slomo> tseng: thanks :)
<slomo> bddebian: i'll take this bug
<ogra> tseng, me too :/
<\sh> and me too too also ;)
<\sh> dholbach *argl*
<\sh> dholbach: u used bloody binary packages :(
<ogra> he's not here
<\sh> i know...
<\sh> but I had to say it ;)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> come on guys...I'm working on universe ftbfs i386 ;)
<\sh> bddebian: hurry ;)
<slomo> ok, i've made a "smart bookmark" for malone bugs ;)
<bddebian> \sh: ??
<\sh> bddebian: hurry up with the packages ;) I'm running again on max power ;)
<bddebian> \sh: I gave up on the FTBFS list.  Most of them won't get uploaded anyway :-)
<\sh> bddebian: why?
<\sh> bddebian: most of them will be syncs
<bddebian> \sh: Yeah that break a lot of other packages :-)
<tseng> sigh
<\sh> bddebian: e.g.?
<bddebian> svgalib
<\sh> oh...
<\sh> so I shouldn't request a sync?
<bddebian> Dunno.  It has a ton of rdepends
<\sh> bddebian: aehm
<\sh> bddebian: we have 1.4.3-20
<\sh> bddebian: debian has 1.4.3-22
<\sh> with gcc4 patches included...
<\sh> so no new API
<bddebian> So those are fair game?
<\sh> bddebian: I'll request the sync...if something happens...I'll get whipped
<tseng> sounds safe to me
<bddebian> OK then.  I'm just a little jumpy since I seem to get myself in trouble often :-)
<\sh> tseng: if debian doesn't invent no new upstream API ;) it should be safe ;)
<tseng> ya
<\sh> bddebian: isn't it the fun behind working on this project?
<bddebian> sure
<bddebian> ;-)
<\sh> the only prolbem is...I'll spam elmo ;)
* sivang wonders what is the current discussion about
<hwaara> I can't find any info on how to start out and compile ubuntu app, download the source etc.
<bddebian> sivang: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS
<hwaara> Looking on the developer resoirces page and the MOTU page didn't help
<tseng> google debian new maint guide
<\sh> hwaara: apt-get source <source package> is for downloading the source
<bddebian> hwaara: apt-get source <source package>
<\sh> hwaara: wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto this is a howto to build you a building environment
<\sh> hwaara: wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources are resources for more informations
<hwaara> \sh: ok, great. I will look
<sivang> bddebian: anything i can helpp you with?
<slomo> bddebian: morgue gnat... we have gnat-3.3, gnat-3.4 and gnat-4.0
<hwaara> I realize it's a steep learning curve being new BOTH to linux and wanting to develop using it
<bddebian> sivang: You can fix any of those listed on that list :-)
<bddebian> slomo: For PPC?
<slomo> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> Hmm
<\sh> btw...prost guys :)
<bddebian> Actually what I need is to build libflorist with it ;-)
<slomo> bddebian: build-depend on gnat-4.0
<sivang> bddebian: ok, should I just look at lamont's build log?
<bddebian> sivang: apt-get source, try to build it and see if it pukes.  IF it does, fix it ;-)
<sivang> bddebian: ok, any of the packages will do? :-)
<bddebian> sivang: Should
<slomo> doko: what do you think about malone 2887? shall i include the headers with the wxheaders package? or python-wxgtk?
<slomo> doko: and what's about eclipse :( still not for amd64/ppc
<doko> slomo: be patient and wait. please ask the debian maintainer about wxwidgets
<slomo> doko: ok
<sivang> bddebian: what is the popcon?
<Petrov> *hello
<bddebian> sivang: Popularity Contest.  Shows what packages are most highly utilized by users.
<bddebian> Where should /usr/share/foo/dtd/ stuff go?  foo or foo-dev ?
<sivang> bddebian: ah right, it's from deiban , I recall now
<bddebian> It is becoming blatantly apparent that I really am too stupid for this work. :'-(
<\sh> bddebian: drink a beer first...then work ;)
<\sh> bddebian: u will see, you feel much better after drinking a beer ;)
<\sh> bddebian: just like neo and his cookie ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Seriously.  I can't even figure out something as simple as removing the .la file from libofx2 :'-(
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> just remove it from the install files?
<bddebian> Lathiat: There were no install files.  I tried adding them but to no avail
<bddebian> Lathiat: Did you get boson-base to work?
<Lathiat> ah nice, DD fixed a drivel bug i reported yesterday
<Lathiat> bddebian: no
<Lathiat> i tried to fix the error to no avail
<bddebian> Doh
<Lathiat> i will try with g++-3.4 and the current version
<\sh>  bddebian -3ubuntu3?
<bddebian> There is a .spec file which seems to work similarly but I don't see a differentiation between the libofx2 and libofx-dev
<bddebian> \sh: ??
<bddebian> \sh: Oh, yes
<slomo> bddebian: shall i take a look at ofx?
<Lathiat> fuck this gnome-terminal/irssi/screen bug is shitting me today
<bddebian> I guess since apparently I'm a fucking idiot :'-(
<\sh> bddebian: look at this
<\sh>  dh_movefiles -plibofx-dev \
<\sh>                 usr/lib/*.so \
<\sh>                 usr/include
<\sh> bddebian: now adjust it with
<\sh> dh_movefiles -plibofx-dev \ usr/lib/*.so \ usr/lib/*.la \ usr/include
<bddebian> \sh: That's fine but does that take it out of the libofx2 package?
<\sh> bddebian: lemme check
<\sh> bddebian: normally it moves from debian/tmp/usr/lib/ the *.so file and *.la file to debian/libofx-dev
* sivang still trying to catch up 1400 threads in u-d that have cluttered there over the week
<slomo> bddebian: it should take it out... at least it's called "move"
<\sh> bddebian: but I check it now ;)
<sivang> and ^D in mutt does help , but there are so many threads
<ivoks> bye all
<\sh> Lathiat: use dircproxy
<Lathiat> \sh: i could use irssiproxy too
<Lathiat> but i prefer just usign irssi
<Lathiat> but gnome-terminal sucks
<Lathiat> but i cant stand using any other terminal
<Lathiat> no tabs, no url highlighting
<\sh> bddebian: works..do it like i said
<\sh>         dh_movefiles -plibofx-dev \
<\sh>                 usr/lib/*.so \
<\sh>                 usr/lib/*.la \
<\sh>                 usr/include
<\sh> Lathiat: konsole ;)
<\sh> bddebian: or should I upload now?
<bddebian> \sh: Sure since you already fixed it ;-)  Make sure you take out the Replaces: lines too then and make a comment about my stupid ass in the changelog :-)
<\sh> take out? the Replaces?
<\sh> why?
<\sh> it replaces libofx1c2 and libofx1
<Lathiat> \sh: konsole doesnt do url highlighting
<Lathiat> i tried :)
<bddebian> That .la being in the libofx2 package is the only reason that replaces was there
<\sh> bddebian: ok...
<\sh> Lathiat: fix it ;)
<Lathiat> why when i can use gnome terminal? ;p
* bddebian turns in his MOTU badge
<\sh> bddebian: check just now the -changes ;)
* Lathiat sells it on ebay for a high price
<\sh> ok...
* Lathiat stares at the buildlogs
<Lathiat> hwo many dr
<Lathiat> how many times did qbankmanager try to build
<\sh> Lathiat: there is an issue...it went to main
<bddebian> Lathiat: It's supposed to be in Universe and ended up in main apparently
<\sh> Lathiat: but should be in universe
<\sh> actually not barrys fault :)
<Lathiat> haha
<bddebian> Yeah, that's 1 :)
<Lathiat> ah i see it was depwaiting or something
<Lathiat> but like, it tried to buidl like 100 times
<Lathiat> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/buildlogs/
<\sh> The '/me is now known as Jesus' Upload, helped out God
<\sh>    * debian/rules: adjusted dh_movefiles to move *.la files to libofx-dev
<\sh>      package
<\sh>    * debian/control: removed Replaces:
<\sh> *lol*
<\sh> *strike*
<Lathiat> lol \sh
<Lathiat> i see syncs en masse happening
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> \sh: You truly are deranged ;-)
<Lathiat> bddebian: ah, btu what would you do without jesus :)
<\sh> bddebian: I love u too dude :)
<bddebian> Lathiat: I'd be screwed because I'm an idiot
<Lathiat> its ok, you do enough work to balance out the fuckups :)
<bddebian> Heh, thanks. (I think) :)
<\sh> as I wrote in my blog... it was god's hand, that bddebian found the way to the motus :)
<bddebian> \sh: :-)
<\sh> bddebian: btw...31st is halloween..so why don't u take your wife+children and make a trip to montreal? ;)
<bddebian> \sh: I wish
<\sh> bddebian: so tell your wife: "Maria, my son is waiting in Montreal" ;)
<Lathiat> haha
<bddebian> hehe
<\sh> hmm../me will not enter to heaven
<\sh> -to
<bddebian> Uh oh
<\sh> azeem: nice...thx :) ghemical ftbfs (latest debian)
<\sh> azeem: -1 that is, right?
<azeem> no -2
<\sh> grmpf...
<\sh> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/ghemical
<\sh> that's -1
<\sh> but http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=ghemical&searchon=sourcenames&subword=1&version=unstable&release=all
<azeem> Source package: ghemical (1.90-2)
<\sh> that's -2
<azeem> \sh: is that from your browser cache?
<\sh> azeem: I don't use caches at all :)=
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> I get -2 here from packages.d.o
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> anyways..moment
<\sh> gnarf
<\sh> something's wrong with ff
<\sh> I disabled cache
<\sh> but
<\sh> bah
<\sh> azeem: k...build again...and request the sync
<\sh> bddebian: u see /me is also brainfcked
<azeem> \sh: thanks
<bddebian> \sh: Bah :-)
* \sh thinks it's time for #ubuntu-motu-de ,-)
<ogra> ARGH
* bddebian thinks it's time for azeem to be MOTU ;-)
<\sh> *lol*
<\sh> I knew that I will awake ogra ;)
<\sh> hmmm...no beer anymore
<ogra> #ubuntu-motu-de-morning, #ubuntu-motu-de-noon, #ubuntu-motu-de-night, #ubuntu-motu-de-north, #ubuntu-motu-de-south, #ubuntu-motu-de-east, #ubuntu-motu-de-west
<ogra> yay
<bddebian> heh
<Lathiat> haha
<ogra> time for xinerama to fit the xchat tablist in...
<\sh> ogra: what about a "after release meeting @eifel"
<ogra> sure, why not :)
<\sh> ogra: k...14th I'll come after work ;)
<ogra> fine :)
<\sh> ogra: but this time I'll pay the beer :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> as you like :)
<slomo> ogra: hehe... i get my second tft on my next birthday ;) it's really needed with thta many channels
<\sh> ogra: u can buy the whisky for suse ;)
<Fuddl> did i hear "beer"? ;)
<bddebian> Hmm, it appears that elmo has awoken :-)
<\sh> bddebian: long ago ;)
<ogra> bddebian, i think he highlights backports ;)
<sivang> \sh, ogra : I Want to come as well :) shame I don't leave near by
<\sh> sivang: elkhouse.de ?
<bddebian> No, I meant a bunch of sync requests I sent him a while back just came through :-)
<ogra> i'll have a place for you if you're naer once, sivang
<\sh> it's rings a bell for me
<ogra> bddebian, yes, but the alert wen off and awoke him when i said backports in -devel ;)
<ogra> *went
<bddebian> ogra: ;-)
<\sh> sivang: elkhouse is duisburg :)
<\sh> sivang: so where u coming from? ,-)
<\sh> azeem: again
<\sh> azeem: er -lSCmisc -lSCstate -lSCkeyval -lSCclass -lSCcontainer -lSCref -lfl -ldl -lpthread -llapack -lblas -lfrtbegin -lg2c -lm -lgcc_s -lmopac7 -lopenbabel   -lglut -lXmu -lg2c -lm
<\sh> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmopac7
<bddebian> Should be there, I synced it a little while ago
<sivang> \sh: lol, I'm in .il, using a server in .de :)
<\sh> sivang: hahahaha
<\sh> sivang: so it's ok for the mossad to use a .de server? ,-)
<sivang> \sh: hey, that's not funny :-)
<sivang> \sh: it's pitti's server, that he with his kindness provided me with an account for mail and irssi, I would be lost with out it as such offering almost does not exist here :)
<azeem> \sh: strange, 1.90-1 built fine on i386, and nothing changed in the Build-Deps
<sivang> \sh: also has an ingeniously choosen name "piware.de" :)
<sivang> \sh: elkhouse are the server farm company
<bddebian> Why is spidermonkey on our list it builds fine for me??
<slomo> bddebian: maybe outdated list ;)
<\sh> azeem: do u have an ubuntu breezy pbuilder?
<azeem> I have a breezy chroot and sbuild
<\sh> azeem: even 1.90-1 and this failed as well
<azeem> I wonder why the buildd succeeded then
<\sh> azeem: can u check it with a pbuilder?
<azeem> I just upgraded my chroot and started another build
<\sh> azeem: ah here
<\sh> libmopac7-dev
<\sh> this is not in b-d
<azeem> \sh: because it is getting built without mopac support in Debian
<\sh> azeem: well...
<\sh> azeem: I used the debian package...
<azeem> but Jordan Mantha added libmopac to libghemical for Ubuntu
<\sh> azeem: so I'll add libmopac7-dev to b-d and check again
<\sh> azeem: after this check I'll upload this as -2ubuntu1
<azeem> maybe one could argue that libghemical-dev should depend on libmopac-dev, rather...
<\sh> azeem: well...u r the maintainer ;)
* azeem ponders
<\sh> http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=29&art_id=iol112869471388A551
<azeem> well, do the change for breezy now, no need to mess around too much
<azeem> I just heard about a proper fix from upstream I'll integrate into libghemical and ghemical, and will enable Mopac while I'm at it
<\sh> azeem: what about becoming a motu? ;)
<\sh> azeem: builds
<azeem> I am considering this for post-breezy, to maintain my science/chemical packages more easily both in Debian and Ubuntu
<azeem> I don't plan to do any general MOTU work, though
<azeem> ah
<azeem>  Subject: Log for successful build of ghemical_1.90-2 (dist=breezy)
<azeem> libghemical-dev: already installed
<azeem> that's why, I had a local version installed in the chroot
<\sh> azeem: ah...that's why I believe pbuilder more then my chroot ;)
<azeem> the Debian version, not the Ubuntu-modified one
<\sh> azeem: btw..upload
<azeem> \sh: nobody told me Ubuntu changed libghemical :)
<\sh> ed
<azeem> ok, thanks
<\sh> azeem: me neither ;) I don't even know ghemical ;)
<\sh> but this happens all the time with me...
<ogra> there is no trace inthe changelog that it was ever changed
<azeem> usually I point sbuild to a local APT source with the additional packages - must've been lazy
<azeem> ogra: libghemical?
<ogra> Changes:
<ogra>  libghemical (1.90-1) unstable; urgency=low
<ogra>  .
<ogra>    * Initial Release.
<ogra> thats all
<ogra> no further uploads etc
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/libghemical/libghemical_1.90-1ubuntu1_packaging.patch
<ogra> bddebian, ?? ^^^ your name stick on it
<ogra> *sticks
<\sh> Version: 1.90-1ubuntu1
<\sh> ogra: it's in
<ogra> yes, i just saw its in hoary, koke changed it
<ogra> err, nope
<ogra> thats not libghemical
<\sh> +libghemical (1.90-1ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
<\sh> +
<\sh> +  * Added MOPAC7 support
<\sh> +
<\sh> + -- Jordan Mantha <mantha@lambda.chem.unr.edu>  Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:04:04 -0700
<ogra> it doesnt show up on neither hoary nor breezy changes
* azeem gets confused
<ogra> \sh, who is Jordan Mantha ?
<azeem> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe libghemical-data 1.90-1ubuntu1 [124kB] 
<\sh> ogra: I don't know
<ogra> i mean, how can that have a ubuntuX version but no apparent ubuntu changes in any changelog
<slomo> hmm... does someone know if "Jorge Daza Garcia-Blanes" is still active here? i haven't seen him for a long time
<\sh>  -- Jordan Mantha <mantha@lambda.chem.unr.edu>  Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:04:04 -0700
<\sh> slomo: comrejda ?
<ogra> slomo, comadreja ?  he was here last week
<slomo> ok... anyway, i fixed a package by him... i'll tell him when he's back ;)
<\sh> anyways..
<\sh> I need to buy some drinks...and get my washing
<azeem> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-October/012373.html
<azeem> ogra: ^^
<ogra> who the heck is Jordan Mantha ??
<ogra> funny
<\sh> azeem: it's not in my archive
<ogra> neither in mine...
<azeem> he has an university email address, probably he had personal interest in ghemical and got it sponsored by somebody?
<ogra> but i know why ;)
<ogra> \sh, do you collect katie mails in a separate folder too ?  :)
<\sh> ogra: yes...and the -changes as well
<ogra> he's not whitelisted
<ogra> so this mail came from katie ....
<bddebian> There is Jordan :)
<\sh> ogra: but libghemical should be listed
<bddebian> ogra: LaserJock == Jordan
<ogra> bddebian, i'm fine now :)
<ogra> we found the missing bit....
<LaserJock> heah everybody
<spayne> tseng: ping
<LaserJock> did I screw something up?
<tseng> spayne: yes?
<spayne> tseng: email back from elmo - resapplet never made it to NEW
<spayne> tseng: "It never made it to NEW:
<spayne> | resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<spayne> | REJECT
<spayne> | Rejected: resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30-0ubuntu1.dsc refers to resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30.orig.tar.gz, but I can't find it in the queue or in the pool.
<spayne> | Rejecting."
<tseng> i see, right
<tseng> yay for no email
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<spayne> tseng: did i do something wrong?
<tseng> yes
<sistpoty> have you been requesting syncs already?
<tseng> source.changes doesnt include a hash of the .orig.gz or so
<Fuddl> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi Firetech
<sistpoty> Fuddl even ;)
<tseng> i dont have the sources anymore
<tseng> spayne: are you whitelisted yet?
<spayne> tseng: yes
<tseng> ok
<spayne> tseng: http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet
<\sh> ok...going shopping
<LaserJock> bddebian: did i mess something up?
<sistpoty> hf \sh
<sistpoty> erm... \sh: did you request syncs from debian for ftbfs today?
<\sh> sistpoty: yepp
<sistpoty> for atlas3 as well?
<bddebian> LaserJock: No.  Did you get a reject from katie though?
<\sh> sistpoty: but only for the stuff mentioned my name
<sistpoty> ah, ok... thx
<\sh> sistpoty: well..but it's a good idea to collect all syncs and send them directly to elmo
<LaserJock> bddebian: no I haven't gotten anything from katie
<\sh> again...couple of mins away
<bddebian> LaserJock: OK.  That was probably my fault.  I should have known that you probably weren't whitelisted
<LaserJock> bddebian: so what did katie send you?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nothin, that was the problem :)
<LaserJock> awww, I see
<sistpoty> tseng: i guess I'll leave the mono packages on the ftbfs list alone?
<tseng> sistpoty: huh what?
<sistpoty> UniverseFTBFS... dholbachs reports of automatic testbuilds
<tseng> do what you want, mono is not FTBFS
<tseng> sorry i am working on something atm
<sistpoty> tseng: ok
<tseng> spayne: lets look at this please
<tseng> http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/packages/resapplet/resapplet_0.0.7+cvs2005.09.30-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<tseng> you will notice that you dont see a hash for resaplet orig.tar.gz
<tseng> since its the first upload for this version, there is no orig.tar.gz on the server
<spayne> right
<tseng> next time, dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<tseng> sign all
<ivoks> hi
<LaserJock> bddebian: have you talked to azeem about the changes I made to libghemical?
<spayne> tseng: what should i do then?
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> speak of the devil
<Lathiat> we were just talkign about you LaserJock
<Lathiat> well, 5 minutes ago
<Lathiat> :)
<azeem> bddebian hates me
<tseng> spayne: you should.. know better in the future
<bddebian> azeem: I do?
<azeem> he doesn't tell me such things
<bddebian> LaserJock: No, I think they were working on an update today??
<LaserJock> well, I don't want to screw up other people's (especially much smarter people's) packages
<pef> can someone explain me this : http://paste.uni.cc/7838 ?
<azeem> LaserJock: nah, it's fine.  I'll include your mopac patch into the Debian package at the earliest possibility, but right now ghemical's upstream CVS repo is acting up
<Lathiat> pef: its not diffing binary files perhaps?
<pef> Lathiat: you're right
<spayne> tseng: do i need to fix something?
<LaserJock> azeem: anything I can help with? I'm still learning a lot about packageing but I would like to help if I can
<tseng> spayne: dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<tseng> spayne: upload the package when changes is correct and lists orig.tar.gz
<azeem> LaserJock: Tommi Hassinen wrote that he committed a patch for 64bit arches to CVS earlier today, I am trying to get this from CVS and upload new packages for libghemical and ghemical, including your enable-mopac patch
<azeem> LaserJock: if mopac is there, I think ghemical is pretty current packaging-wise, dunno how good the GTK2 interface will work out in practise though, will need some testing
<azeem> LaserJock: but if you have any suggestions, let me know
<LaserJock> azeem: yeah, I have noticed that the menu doesn't scale right when resizing the window and right now "add hydrogens" just seg faults
<azeem> LaserJock: if you are using ghemical a bit, could you report those upstream?
<azeem> I don't use it that often
<LaserJock> azeem: I haven't really seen much of a bugzilla or anything for ghemical but if I make a list of bugs and email them to you is that ok?
<spayne> tseng: done - they are at the same palce
<sistpoty> ping slomo
<azeem> LaserJock: that's fine, otherwise you could also mail the devel list at  ghemical-devel@bioinformatics.org
<slomo> sistpoty: pong
<ivoks> this is killing me :)
<LaserJock> azeem: ok cool, thanks for looking at my patch BTW
<sistpoty> slomo: do you have some experience with libwxgtk-package (i saw you in the changelog ;)
<sistpoty> ?
<slomo> sistpoty: not really... but what do you want to do?
<tseng> spayne: ok
<sistpoty> slomo: i suspect a problem in the lib somewhere, as it (kinda randomly) segfaults. real problem is that this is killing the mouse and x needs to be restarted
<sistpoty> slomo: so i hoped you had some clues on this... ;)
<slomo> sistpoty: ok, forget it ;)
<tseng> spayne: looks better, uploading
<spayne> so, if it works, how will i find out?
<tseng> you will get an email if you are really whitlisted
<sistpoty> slomo: malone 2912... this seems to be pretty important for edubuntu (jelkner mailed me after accepting the bug) :(
<tseng> in the next few minutes
<slomo> sistpoty: tried gdb?
<spayne> tseng: you don't believe me :)
<tseng> how do you mean
<tseng> oh
<spayne> just kidding :)
<sistpoty> slomo: yep... but w.o. symbols pretty useless. and i weren't able to use the -dbg package for the python-stuff (strange enough, the python-dbg is not in the archives)
<\sh> re
<tseng> hi
<slomo> sistpoty: fix wxwidgets2.6 to include the dpg package ;)
<tseng> spayne: do you have an email
<spayne> yes - i have recenetly changed
<spayne> i used to be spayne@evolutioncolt.com but i am now spayne@evolutionconsultancy.com
<tseng> i mean do you have an email from katie
<sistpoty> slomo: hehe... I'm just trying with a new upstream version... but wxpython refused to work after that :(
<spayne> tseng: let me check
<spayne> tseng: no
<tseng> please look again in 5 minutes
<tseng> um
<tseng> does spayne@evolutioncolt.com still ork
<spayne> yeh
<tseng> that is where your email is going
<spayne> it works
<tseng> assuming you got the right thing whitelisted
<spayne> it works fien
<tseng> if not
<tseng> we are totally in the dark still
<tseng> what address is whitelisted?
<spayne> both of them
<spayne> tseng: elmo said he has
<tseng> ok.
<spayne> tseng: might take a while to get through my ClamAV/SpamAssassin stuff
<tseng> i see
<\sh> dholbach: come and get your bum whipped
<tseng> :/
<\sh> all lists diffs between test builds and popcon are somehow useless
<spayne> brb
<bddebian> bbl
<Lathiat> ajmitch: yay avahi :)
* tseng wonders about myththemes
<\sh> tseng: fix mythtv for amd64 first
<tseng> \sh: i dont have an amd64
<\sh> tseng: ah well...then ..I'm just teasing :)
<Lathiat> any particular reasn the universe-bugs list is hidden from the list summary?
<sistpoty> anyone to sponsor http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/debdiffs/intflonts_1.2.1-3_to_intlfonts_1.2.1-3ubuntu1.debdiff
<sistpoty> `
<sistpoty> ?
<Lathiat> i would but i dont have a key in the keyring yet :)
<Diablo-D3> ugh
* Diablo-D3 forgot to post the bt for ardour
<Lathiat> whos daniel t chen?
<Lathiat> ah, crimsum
<Lathiat> crimsun: bug 2924, did you do anythign about that
<siretart> sistpoty: phew, 15mb download ;)
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu
<sistpoty> siretart: but the debdiff is really small ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: I checked the buildlogs. fix looks sane. uploading
<sistpoty> thx siretart
<sistpoty> ok, I'm off for today... cya
<Fuddl> Lathiat: i uploaded new quake3 packages to revu. btw, i cannot fix the svn-complains, because upstream requires to build quake3 from a co'ed tree.
<siretart> Fuddl: done.
<siretart> Fuddl: the makefiles rely on svn output in the makefiles. I noticed this, don't worry in this case
<Fuddl> yep, that's it. i even forgot the details, already
<pef> Lathiat: my problem was files hard linked :D
<Fuddl> siretart: btw... did anybody package nexuiz already? :)
<siretart> Fuddl: I think \sh had a look at it. Not sure, though
<Fuddl> i think nexuiz had kind of "strange" license, too. i believe the data files weren't very "free", so they might also require a "nexuiz-data" package, which postinsts stuff
<siretart> Fuddl: there is a debian ITP for it: #311479 - perhaps it's worth asking alexander about his status with the packages
<\sh> what?
<Fuddl> \sh: siretart said, that you might have a glance at packaging nexuiz?
<siretart> I think the problem with nexuiz was that 140mb data files are inacceptable for the debian archive
<\sh> Fuddl: wth is nexuiz?? :)
<Fuddl> eeeh.... ok.... so.... you didn't already :)
<Fuddl> \sh: ... oh, and nexuiz is a fps, built on a modified quake1 engine. looks funny but i don't like it that much
* Fuddl starts to dream of a holarse-to-debian-package daemon ;)
<siretart> \sh: perhaps I confuse that with njam
<\sh> Fuddl: ohoh..../me and quake stuff
<\sh> siretart: yes ;)
<Fuddl> siretart: 140mb and/or the license on the data...
<\sh> Fuddl: i can't even play quake correctly ;) i'M a n00b in things like 3d shooter..only with cheats I'm able to win
<Fuddl> \sh: i'm a noob, either. there's no reason to worry!
<Lathiat> Fuddl: see the error, you can export, rather than checkout
<siretart> Lathiat: did you try to build with an exported tree?
<siretart> since upstream didn't do a release yet, I wouldn't insist on it. that lintian warning is imo overrated anyway
<Fuddl> i tried it once, with a co <= 130 and it didn't compile
<Fuddl> but there would be more things to fix in upstream... autotools would really be nice :)
<Fuddl> brb, smoking :)
<\sh> oh...yeah..smoking and beer ;)
<\sh> well...
<\sh> beer, cigarette and compiling sources..what else can we wish for
* dholbach clings to his tea
<\sh> moins bmonty_laptop
<bmonty_laptop> hi everyone
<LaserJock> do any of you know where to get a log of this channel?
<bmonty_laptop> there are logs, but I don't have the URL here...I think it is in the wiki
<\sh> siretart: ping...it's halloween time while we're in montreal ;)
<siretart> w00t!
<siretart> :)
<\sh> yeah...31st ;)
<\sh> siretart: so we need some pumpkins ;)
<Diablo-D3> crimsun: you know what we need?
<Diablo-D3> something that automatically files bugs for us
<dholbach> Diablo-D3: we have enough, kthxbye
<Diablo-D3> dholbach: hah
<Diablo-D3> seriously
<dholbach> Diablo-D3: you should receive some...
<Diablo-D3> filing a bug with a bt in it shouldnt be so clunky
<siretart> \sh: hrhr
<\sh> bt?
<dholbach> i suppose he means backtraces
<siretart> bug tracker?
<Diablo-D3> gdb bt
<siretart> trace, even
* siretart hungry and out for dinner. cu!
<dholbach> siretart: bon apptit
<\sh> siretart: hf :)
* \sh is collecting syncs
<Diablo-D3> btw, is there a list of metapackages in ubuntu?
<Diablo-D3> like, I just learned of xubuntu-desktop today
* Diablo-D3 bets there are others he doesnt know of
<hwaara_> how do I install all the packages to develop in ubuntu?
<hwaara_> is there some central panel in ubuntu for this?
<dholbach> hwaara_: build-essential (and for a packager devscripts) are a good start
<dholbach> not to say essential
<hwaara_> where do I find this? sorry I'm new to ubuntu
<dholbach> those are packages you could install
<dholbach> it depends on what you are trying to do
<Diablo-D3> build-essential is very handy imo
<Diablo-D3> hwaara_: open a terminal, sudo apt-get install build-essential
<hwaara_> is there a graphical interface for this ?
<Diablo-D3> yeah, synaptic
<Diablo-D3> though I find synaptic difficult to use
<hwaara_> heh
<hwaara_> that's a bug and you should file it
<hwaara_> or file a bug on every sub-issue
<Diablo-D3> well
<Diablo-D3> its not a 'bug'
<Diablo-D3> I find gui programs a pain in the ass sometimes
<Diablo-D3> like, a simple apt-cache search foo | grep bar | grep baz is infinitely more powerful than anything you can do with a gui.
<hwaara_> sure, since it's a very dynamic command
<hwaara_> I don't think regular home users will often need that power though :)
<hwaara_> but ideal are always easy-to-use programs that combine power and usability/easyness
<Diablo-D3> which makes the terminal the ideal program ;)
<dholbach> did anybody see how the MOTURuby team TOOK OFF?
<dholbach> i'm so happy with their enthusiasm
<Diablo-D3> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/xmms-openspc
<Diablo-D3> big bad frown
<Diablo-D3> they have a package we dont
<dholbach> Diablo-D3: that's because the autosync stopped with upstream version freeze
<dholbach> Diablo-D3: if you confirm that it builds and works for you and is something we should really really have, then speak up
* Diablo-D3 speaks up
<dholbach> if it's just for the reason that "they have something we don't"...
<Diablo-D3> its something thats worth having imo
<dholbach> did you build it in pbuilder?
<Diablo-D3> I havent built it myself yet
* Diablo-D3 is using the debian package for it atm
<dholbach> then you should :)
<Diablo-D3> I'm working with the author to figure out why it doesnt compile from original source using ubuntu xmms
<dholbach> that's why i said: "<dholbach> Diablo-D3: if you confirm that it builds and works for you and is something we should really really have, then speak up"
<dholbach> ...
<Diablo-D3> dholbach: thats not what I meant
<Diablo-D3> apparently the debian version is patched
<dholbach> then please get the debian source and build the package
<Diablo-D3> dholbach: which I said I'll do!
<dholbach> else i won't waste more time to get it in
<dholbach> thanks
<\sh> hmmm...any java experts here?
<Diablo-D3> how hard is it to become a motu?
<\sh> hard
<\sh> u have to apply as member first and sign the coc
<Diablo-D3> the what?
<Diablo-D3> \sh: english please
<\sh> Diablo-D3: CoC== Code Of Conduct
<\sh> please check the wiki for the member process
<\sh> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct
<hwaara_> \sh, depends how expert
<\sh> hwaara_: well...the member process is always the first step to become a MOTU ;)
<Diablo-D3> I dont literally have to sign the CoC do I?
<\sh> Diablo-D3: u sign it with your gpg key or with a handwritten signature
<Diablo-D3> okay, good.
<Diablo-D3> \sh: please stop using 'u'
<hwaara_> \sh, huh?
<hwaara_> I thought you were looking for java help? :)
<\sh> Diablo-D3: well...I can't stop using the normal chatter slang :( I should write a macro for substitute a "u" for a "you" like xchat does
<Diablo-D3> Yes, 'u' should.
<\sh> hwaara_: ah jave ;)
<\sh> aeh java
<\sh> hwaara_: could you check pdftk?
<hwaara_> I don't even know what/where that is
<\sh> Diablo-D3: u know who invented "u" or "r"?
<hwaara_> probably I won't be able to help you unless it's a general question :)
<\sh> hwaara_: well..me neither...but if failes to build :)
<\sh> hwaara_: and honestly, I never learned java at university
<\sh> hwaara_: so I'm a n00b ;)
<Diablo-D3> \sh: no, but I know where my foot is going to go in a few minutes.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: well...the idea behind "u" and "r" and other sounds of the anglo-saxxon alphabet was to save bandwidth..
<\sh> Diablo-D3: so the bitnet people and beginning irc people invented those "abbreviations".
<Diablo-D3> yeah but you forgot something
<Diablo-D3> I have a cluebat and I know how to use it.
<dholbach> MAN
<dholbach> drop it
<\sh> Diablo-D3: that's the reason why, nobody will speak for you to become a motu or a member
<Diablo-D3> \sh: oh hah hah
<dholbach> Diablo-D3: that's nothing anybody in here can laugh about
<Diablo-D3> Well, seeing as you'd only be hurting Ubuntu by pushing potential motus away, its hillarious.
<dholbach> ?
<\sh> Be considerate. Be respectful. Be collaborative. When you disagree, consult others. When you are unsure, ask for help. Step down considerately.
<dholbach> you're being respectless
* Diablo-D3 thinks using 'u' or 'r' is being without respect.
* Lathiat thinks Diablo-D3 should go waste someone elses time
<tseng> i already warned him once that i dont have patience for this
<Lathiat> tseng: deployed my first rails app last weekend
<\sh> tseng: well..we know him from #ubuntu-laptop...but anyways...I think a human being can change...
<Lathiat> was quite good, development time was like nothign compared to the PHP crap i had
<tseng> \sh: I dont.
<Diablo-D3> \sh: you mean I know you from #ubuntu-laptop.
<tseng> Lathiat: hm "deployment"?
<tseng> Lathiat: i think the deployment options for rails atm are all pretty poor
<Lathiat> tseng: well, we run an event every couple months
<Lathiat> and it runs the intranet for said event
<Lathiat> and by deployment i mean, i used it in production :)
<Lathiat> had some problems at the start, had it running on a p833 with 128M ram and it choked
<tseng> apache + fastcgi?
<\sh> Diablo-D3: I think it's time to set you on ignore...thx for coming along
<Lathiat> mostly on the ram
<Lathiat> yeh
<tseng> i dont like fastcgi
<Lathiat> interestingly when i moved it to my laptop, it hardly used any of the resources it was using on that box so i have no idea what was up
<Lathiat> perhaps because it was running some quirky point of deian unstable
<Lathiat> and it had a dodgy apache or something i dunno
<Lathiat> tseng: why not?
<Lathiat> it seems to work
<Lathiat> not really scalable for multi-user hosting
<tseng> because it runs several threads for every app
<tseng> yes.. all my production boxes have many users
<Lathiat>  because youd end up with fastcgi processes for every web app
<\sh> wow...
<Lathiat> which would be a bit of a resource hog
<tseng> there is a high memory and administration over head for *every* rails app on the box
<Lathiat> tseng: right
<Lathiat> memory is the killer really
<Lathiat> at least that was what was killing me
<tseng> yeah i hit the ceiling on my linode also
<tseng> with a very simple app
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> the real magic behidn rails is activerecord
<tseng> ive already used AR in standalone apps
<Lathiat> its what saved half of my time
<Lathiat> yeh
<tseng> thing is
<tseng> i waste alot of time trying to do more complex sutff with it
<Lathiat> tseng: i found that at first
<Lathiat> but i found it just required me to learn hwo to use it better
<Lathiat> get to knwo the api etc
<Lathiat> altho it still hold strue to some point
<Lathiat> makes silly things easy
<Lathiat> but hard things harder
<tseng> right
<Lathiat> but it definately lessened as i got to know how to use it better
<Lathiat> time will tell
<Lathiat> i wonder how textdrive handles hosting so much rails stuff
<Lathiat> like last check they were doing fastcgi
<Lathiat> i wonder if
<Lathiat> much of it gets shared
<tseng> there are some tricks to do fastcgi configs dynamically on directory layout
<tseng> mod_vhost and all that
<tseng> then you just load the box to the max with DIMMs
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> 8x2GB :)
<Lathiat> dual otperon 248s or something
<Lathiat> with a thumping raid array
<tseng> sure, why not
<Lathiat> but yeh, its definately resource intensive
<Lathiat> adodb & smarty make php nicer
<tseng> i use pear-db
<Lathiat> yeh?
<Lathiat> i should look at it
<tseng> its ok
<Lathiat> i mean adodb isnt active record, but it has a few nice things for free
<Lathiat> does asp.net have anything like AR?
<tseng> there is a .net port of ar
<tseng> im not sure if there is something nice in the platform itself
<Lathiat> url?
<tseng> asp.net excites me about enough to take a nap
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> im just curious
<Lathiat> i used asp like
<Lathiat> 5 years ago or something
<Lathiat> i think i made a page that said helloworld in the <% :)
<tseng> thats nothing to do with asp.net
<Lathiat> using PWS
<Lathiat> that beast
<Lathiat> tseng: i know
<Lathiat> i fiddled with asp.net once
<tseng> hah PWS was elite
<Lathiat> was mildly impressed by the form handlding stuff
<Lathiat> didnt really do any more than that
<tseng> http://www.castleproject.org/index.php/ActiveRecord,_.Net_2.0_and_Generics
<Lathiat> monos asp.net stuff is seriously not usable for production. :)
<tseng> this castle thingy has some rails stuff for .net
<Lathiat> at least not 6-12 months ago, i hear its come a long way since then
<Lathiat> some thing they did gave it a 3x speedup or something, i forget what
<tseng> its better, but i wouldnt touch it
<Lathiat> i/o layer rewrite i think
<tseng> yes
<tseng> but mod_mono is still a whore for memory also
<tseng> its not good at sharing
<Lathiat> that page doesn't look hardly as elegant as AR in ruby
<tseng> im not impressed with the knock-offs
<Lathiat> grammer++
<tseng> for any language
<tseng> so whats the deal with smarty
<Lathiat> its just a basic templating system
<Lathiat> i used to do lots of fun things
<Lathiat> <? something ?></table>
<Lathiat> <table>
<Lathiat> <? foreach >?
<Lathiat> <tr>
<Lathiat> etc
<Lathiat> gone are those days. :)
<tseng> oh yeah?
<tseng> i hate that
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> so now i go
<Lathiat> $smarty->assign ("somearray", $somearray)
<Lathiat> and then do it in the template
<Lathiat> and its a bit more manageable
<Lathiat> its basically like rails
<\sh> so...I think it's time to go to bed for toda
<\sh> y
<tseng> bye \sh
<Lathiat> cya
<Lathiat> rails views and smarty work very similar
<tseng> Lathiat: hm
<\sh> cu guys....:) tomorrow more :)
<Lathiat> your php is esentially your controller
<\sh> btw...if anybody things I was inpolite to anyone...please raise the issue towards CC
<Lathiat> and your models dont exist :)
<\sh> thinks even
<tseng> \sh: i will
<tseng> \sh: see you in court
<\sh> tseng: for sure...montreal ? ;)
<tseng> no :(
<\sh> tseng: oh...sad :(
<Lathiat> tseng: so, this example is really ugly, but
<tseng> Compiling: Smarty compiles templates into PHP code behind the scenes, eliminating run-time parsing of templates.
<tseng> boggle
<Lathiat> http://www.kcdshop.com/saki/demo/templates/category.tmpl
<\sh> tseng: could u have a look over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFS , cause of the mono stuff and remove everything which doesn't need love?
<tseng> \sh: yes
<\sh> tseng: *hugs* thx :)
<\sh> so...good night :)
<slomo> \sh, tseng: all the mono stuff compiles fine on all 3 arches
<\sh> slomo: wow...u rock :)
<\sh> tseng: forget my words :)
<tseng> slomo: im fixing it
<\sh> ok..gone
<tseng> we are very high on the popcon list
<ajmitch> morning
<dholbach> morning andrew!
<slomo> \sh_away: that has nothing to do with rocking... we had rebuilds/new versions of almost everything in the last days
<dholbach> woohoo... reinforcements :)
<dholbach> hey slomo
<ajmitch> anything left for me to do?
<tseng> dholbach: hugs
<dholbach> hahaha :)))
<slomo> hi dholbach :)
<Lathiat> hey aj	
<ajmitch> or can I take a holiday for the next week?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: rather
* dholbach hugs ajmitch and tseng and slomo 
<dholbach> night \sh_away
<ajmitch> Lathiat: yay avahi
<Lathiat> ajmitch: indeed
<Lathiat> poor elmo had quite a backlog judging by breezy-changes ;p
<ajmitch> oh yeah
<ajmitch> 99% MOTU
<Lathiat> and by the 5 of mine :)
<ajmitch> I saw maybe 1 or 2 main packages there
<dholbach> btw: i removed the stuff from UniverseFTBFS if it built on $arch
<ajmitch> ok, now I have to run out for a couple of hours, just had to say hi ;)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<tseng> slomo: mono-xsp?
<tseng> ill leave that for now
<slomo> tseng: we have this? hum... i'll take a look
<tseng> (4139, 'mono-apache-server')
<tseng> i think is the same package
<tseng> i dont touch that stuff with a stick
<tseng> (2842, 'libwine-cil')
<tseng> what in the world is that
<slomo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xsp/1.0.5-1/
<slomo> that's a good question... never heard of it
<tseng> Maintainer: Debian Mono Group <pkg-mono-group@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<tseng> uh
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> aaaah
<slomo> this is probably old System.Drawing stuff
<tseng> yes
<slomo> or System.Windows.Forms... it was wine stuff before afaik
<tseng> i thought that was all in mono-assemblies-arch
<tseng> but ok
<tseng> lets not waste time on whatever it is
<slomo> hehe... that must be ancient
<slomo> can we remove this?
<tseng> if meebey says so
<dholbach> hey thesaltydog
<dholbach> this is your day! it's FTBFS day! :)
<dholbach> everybody's having fun over packages that FTBFS :)
<dholbach> am i right? :)
<tseng> we will get them all for dapper
<ajmitch> tseng: get xsp 1.1.9, if it doesn't need mono 1.1.9
<tseng> and go gcc 4.0 nuts
<tseng> ajmitch: id rather not
<tseng> does anyone want it?
<ajmitch> that is if anyone had uploaded xsp
<tseng> its not in debian
<ajmitch> lurfagrin is probably waiting on my to sponsor still
<ajmitch> s/my/me/
* ajmitch makes a note to do that later
<dholbach> what could ePSXe possibly be?
<tseng> if you upload to debian
<tseng> go ahead and sync it
<ajmitch> ok
<tseng> (thanks)
<tseng> i dont want to deviate on things i know nothing about
* ajmitch will handle later got to run out now
<slomo> otherwise i could fix xsp to compile with our mono... nothing that hard
<dholbach> i have another funny note on other peoples view on debian/copyright
<thesaltydog> hey dholbach !
<dholbach>    "Copyright: don't ask"
<slomo> :)
<slomo> dholbach: you should make a blog entry about that when you collected enough
<dholbach> that's what i thought
<dholbach> :)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I am very busy setting up new ubuntu-it.org web site. Monday it will have an unveiling..
<dholbach> cool
<thesaltydog> dholbach, why you were saying it's my day?
<dholbach> it was just a cheap try to get you involved in the FTBFS fixing ;)
<Fuddl> Lathiat: cool, i exported the latest svn version of quake3 and it works now, to compile from exported sources! i'll upload a new package later
<thesaltydog> dholbach, until monday I have hands and feet on ubuntu-it...
<dholbach> yeah... i think so
<dholbach> that's cool
<thesaltydog> if you want to get a look (it is still unofficial http:/www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php
<dholbach> coooool :)
<Lathiat> Fuddl: ok, cool, i'll review when i wake up later
<Lathiat> Fuddl: but it should be fine, just check lintian and linda
<Fuddl> Lathiat: i'll do. hm, the sources now sem _MUCH_ cleaner! :)
<Fuddl> Lathiat: upload finished and already played a bit with the new version on the net *happy* :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> What did I screw up while I was away? ;-)
<slomo> nothing :P
<bddebian> Damn, I see we've had a bunch more bug reports again.. :-(
<slomo> bddebian: you'll get mail from katie soon ;)
<sivang> bddebian: can I touch packages that do not have nobody listed on them in here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 ?
<bddebian> slomo: Uh oh
<sivang> bddebian: I mean, some of them have remarks by you and/or dholbach
<bddebian> sivang: Should be fine but \sh is saying that the list might be wrong
<sivang> \sh_away: then which list should I work with?
<bddebian> sivang: I have one for you if you're interested.  There is a new version of cyphesis-cpp in Debian but we don't have new enough versions of a couple of the build-deps.  You could check on those and see if we can sync them?
<sivang> bddebian: sure thing, what do you usually do in order to sync those? do you use Etch chroot and check building inside?
<slomo> sivang: get the debian packages, rebuild them in pbuilder for breezy
<sivang> slomo: ok, and does a successful build determines if we can sync them up or not?
<bddebian> sivang: Partially.  We also need to know if bringing in those packages affects any other packages.  I.E. apt-cache rdepends or germane, etc
<bddebian> ugh gmane, germinate, whatever the hell that's called
<dholbach> haha :)
* dholbach hugs bddebian 
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Where's the xfce meister?
<tseng> busy drawing mice
<bddebian> Drawing mice?
<dholbach>  x
<dholbach> xfce logo :)
<dholbach> tseng: for usplash?
<bddebian> Oh yeah, hehe
<bddebian> tseng: You do xfce?
<hub> dholbach: I tried to package the new libimage-exiftool-perl, but the package make check fails in pbuilder
<tseng> bddebian: no?
<hub> dholbach: but not outside pbuilder
<bddebian> Hey what's this grmonitor shit?  Is that you slomo ? :-)
<dholbach> hub: maybe some missing build-depends?
<slomo> bddebian: it was in revu, uploaded by you last month :P
<tseng> bddebian: backgrounds on art.ubuntu.com for xubuntu
<hub> dholbach: I checked that, and I don't see what
<bddebian> tseng: Ah
<bddebian> slomo: Ohh hehe :-)
<hub> dholbach: and given that the author claims that it requires nothing but perl...
<dholbach> hub: ok... well that's no requirement... just wanted to give a "headsup"
<dholbach> authors and their ideas about build-depends... :)
<tseng> yes
<hub> dholbach: I suspect some env issue as it looks like a check on time stamp (timezone difference)
<dholbach> hub: then you could write him about the problem and we get the "old" version in in the meantime
<hub> yeah
<sivang> bddebian: do we have access to germane?
<sivang> bddebian: or, garminate :)
<dholbach> ouch... millions of packages that use yada
<dholbach> hrmhrm
<sivang> OMG yada
<sivang> bddebian: ok, I'll go to set up my pbuilder first
<bddebian> sivang: Cool
<bddebian> sivang: I think people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/ has output from it
<sivang> bddebian: yyou mean the garminate outputs are on colin's page?
<bddebian> I believe so
<sivang> bddebian: k, thanks
<sivang> bddebian: going to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto, 's that okay?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> thats perfect
<dholbach> how's the fixing going?
<tseng> im wishing someone would fix evolution
* slomo too :(
<tseng> it hangs or crashes every 10 minutes
<bddebian> Kick jbailey ;-)
<dholbach> oi
<tseng> why?
<dholbach> 10 minutes?
<tseng> yes
<slomo> tseng: there's already a bugreport in the gnome bugzilla by \sh
<tseng> do a few things, works ok
<tseng> go back to some other windows
<tseng> go back to evo
<tseng> ZOMG EVO IS TEH DEAD
<dholbach> where do you have your mails stored?
<slomo> tseng: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317790
<tseng> imap
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> me too
<sivang> tseng: k, pbuilder creating..
<dholbach> for me it worgs charmingly
<dholbach> works
<slomo> dholbach: want a reproducable crash with evo on imap? ;)
<tseng> oh yeah
<tseng> i do the caching thing
<sivang> tseng: you use evo instead of mutt ?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> i havent used mutt in forever
<sivang> ah, I see
<slomo> dholbach: go to your breezy-changes folder... search for something, click on one of the mails, wait for gpg signature verification to finish and click on "verwerfen" (maybe reset in english)
<sivang> well, although I do not master all of its features, I prefer it over GUI clients, it allows me to go over more messages then with evo
* sivang is joyed seeing his pbuilder updating
<sivang> I: Checking component main on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu...
<sivang> ^^ hmm takes a bit of time, that's usual?
<tseng> yes
<LaserJock> what does it mean to be whitelisted?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Means you can receive e-mail from katie and such
<sivang> LaserJock: it mean that when you upload apackage, a girl named katie will email yo uback with gratitude :)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> got ya ;-)
<LaserJock> so that is why I didn't get an email, because bddebian uploaded for me
<dholbach> and your name appears on breezy-changes@ when your package got uploaded
<bddebian> FUCK, I did it again
<tseng> katie loves you all
* bddebian hands dholbach his MOTU badge and walks away
<dholbach> bddebian: i won't let you resign from the team
<dholbach> bddebian: what went wrong?
<dholbach> oh man... bf - a fast Brainfuck interpreter
<dholbach> *cry*
<sivang> what DID wnt wrong ?
* sivang is curious
<dholbach> sivang: i'm sure it was nothing serious at all
<bddebian> I uploaded a main package again
<tseng> so?
<sivang> bddebian: but can you upload a main package?
<dholbach> it got rejected... that's fine
<sivang> yes, so no harm done
<bddebian> Yeah but I'm sick of doing that
<dholbach> i uploaded stuff to debian, do hoary instead of breezy
<dholbach> uploaded wrong version numbers
<dholbach> uploaded stuff that i forgot to sign
<dholbach> ...
<tseng> hah i uploaded to debian a bunch of times
<spayne> YEY! RESAPPLET IS IN BREEZY!
<dholbach> you see :)
<spayne> thanks tseng
<tseng> Zomb is like WTH dude??
<spayne> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/breezy-changes/2005-October/012512.html
<sivang> bddebian: believe me that's nothing comapred to bugged lpi patch I uploaded once for panel-libs, which luckily enough tseng spotted quickly, and I devised a fix while at work :-)
<hwaara> in what package are the strings for the ubuntu installer ?
<sivang> it was urgent :)
<hwaara> the primitive one
<tseng> seriously, most of my uploads are reject the first time
<tseng> because of somethign stupid
<sivang> bddebian: and this GOT into main :)
<tseng> haha he b0rked all my stuff
<tseng> LPI was like the borg
<tseng> taking over my packages
<bddebian> Well I closed the Malone bug too because it was an easy fix.. :-(
<tseng> i can upload it for you
<tseng> if its so easy
<tseng> but mdz needs to approve
<tseng> what is it
<bddebian> It's just a change of build-deps from java-runttime1 | java-runtime2 to java1-runtime | java2-runtime
<tseng> i see
<dholbach> that should be cool
<spayne> thanks tseng
<spayne> thanks dholbach
<spayne> thanks bddebian
<dholbach> de rien :)
<spayne> thanks slomo
<spayne> thanks all helping me out with my first package
<dholbach> spayne: if you now help out helping other guys, ... :)
<spayne> dholbach: i can always try
<slomo> spayne: no problem... we have new ipod-sharp now fyi ;)
<spayne> wooh!
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you guys need my email for anything? I just realized that my .bashrc got borked and didn't have DEBEMAIL exported and so my libghemical package has the wrong email address
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-14
<hwaara> What ubuntu package is the base installer in? The one where you install the ubuntu distro?
<hwaara> I want to translate some strings there!
<dholbach> yes.... zakmccracken package! :)
<sivang> debian-installer no?
<Skapare> nalioth: you here?
<tseng> apperantly not
<Skapare> hmmm
<Skapare> he suggested coming here when I asked him a question
<dholbach> and loom for scummvm
<dholbach> and maniacmansion
<Skapare> I guess I'll go back to #ubuntu
<dholbach> woohoo
<dholbach> :)
<spayne> slomo: does this mean i can continue with dopi?
<Skapare> so does this channel offer help to people that are new to Ubuntu, even though very experienced otherwise with other distributions and systems?
<tseng> not really, no
<Skapare> where would be a good place for that?
<tseng> this channel offers help to people working on packaging and bugfixing
<Skapare> ah
<Skapare> what I want to do is install Ubuntu into a subdirectory of an existing Linux system ... where is a good place to get help on that (I know how to do it in Slackware)
<tseng> man debootstrap
<Skapare> No manual entry for debootstrap ... but then, I am on a Slackware system right now
<sivang> tseng: man, still downloading..
<Skapare> OK ... different question ... would this be the place to ask/talk about porting to a new architecture (e.g. Sparc or S/390) ?
<tseng> there is already a sparc port
<Skapare> just not officially released, yet?
<tseng> yes
<Skapare> I have no spare x86 machines at the moment to try Ubuntu on ... but I do have 3 spare Sun Sparc machines :)
<sivang> tseng: there a way to see how fast it is downloading?
* tseng shurgs
<tseng> shrugs
<tseng> it takes a few minutes for me, i dont know what to tell you
<Skapare> so where do I get Ubuntu for Sparc?  d/l?
<tseng> sparc.ubuntu.com
<tseng> i think yo might have to upgrade from debian
<Skapare> thanks
<tseng> those are just packages
<sivang> tseng: hmm, interesting. what sort of interenet connection do you have?
<tseng> 1.5mb
<sivang> same here
<sivang> weird
<hub> I wish I had a few sparc
<tseng> i have one in my living room
<tseng> i dont know how to console into it
<tseng> tried a cisco console cable
<tseng> with a serial connector on one end
<tseng> it has no vga
<hub> tseng: cisco cable are not OK
<hub> use a real nullmodem cable
<tseng> what do i need?
<hub> I could never use Cisco. but null modem works
<tseng> ok
<hub> what kind of machine is it?
<tseng> its a 1u sparc
<tseng> im told 1ghz
<hub> Utra Sparc 1?
<tseng> no, one rack unit
<hub> ah
<hub> oh
<hub> unlikely to have a video card
<hub> it is probably faster than my 1GHz PIII
<tseng> it probably has an arseload of ram
<hub> :-(
<tseng> hm null modem has serial on both ends?
<tseng> the console port on my box is RJ45
<tseng> just like the cisco console ports
<hub> ah
<hub> sorry I don't know then
<hub> all the sun I have seen have a standard db25
<hub> even the IBM pSeries I have at work has that
<tseng> maybe i just setup minicom wrong
<hub> maybe
<hub> 9600 8 1
<hub> n
<hub> these are the settings if I rememver
<tseng> sounds right
<hub> do you get anything?
<hub> or just garbage?
<tseng> nothing
<tseng> ill try again tommorow night
<sivang> tseng: minicom works for my sun machines, with what hub said
<tseng> sivang: k, do you have rj45 console?
<sivang> tseng: no, I use a serial one
<sivang> tseng: but this machine as a vga card, so mostly I just use it's display. when things get rough, only the serial console helps
<tseng> it looks like it is a sun fire v100/v120
<bddebian> What is eclipse?  There are several bugs on Malone about it?
<tseng> bddebian: java ide
<sivang> bddebian: that's a java ide by IBM
* bddebian vomits
<bddebian> OK next :-)
<sivang> bddebian: pluggable interface, said to be a nice frameowrk
<tseng> http://www.ossmann.com/5-in-1.html
<tseng> haha
<hub> tseng: sunfive ?
<hub> holly crap
<hub> that a real nice machine
<hub> how did you get that?
<tseng> my roomate brought it home one day
<tseng> i dont think his boss realized what it was
* sivang adds this link to my webpage
<sivang> anyway fellas, I need to get some sleep.
<sivang> work oin 5 hours from now
<dholbach> sleep tight sivang
<sivang> dholbach: thank you daniel
<sivang> bddebian: I hope to be more successful with that package tommorow
<sivang> (still waiting on pbuilder to check main component)
<hub> tseng: you have a heck of a roomate
<tseng> hub: actually, he is a fool
<tseng> hub: which is good news for me :)
<sivang> good night all
<hub> yeah
<tseng> bye sivang
<bddebian> sivang: No worries, thx
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you guys need my email for anything? I just realized that my .bashrc got borked and didn't have DEBEMAIL exported and so my libghemical package has the wrong email address
<bddebian> LaserJock: I don't think so since azeem will probably put the changes in in Debian and we will just sync but thanks
* ajmitch returns
<ajmitch> afternoon all
<LaserJock> ok, just didn't want to have been not able to get in touch if the needed. I thought azeem would handle
<LaserJock> it
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<hwaara> is there an irc channel for ubuntu l10n?
<tseng> there are loco teams
<tseng> who often have their own channel
<tseng> like #ubuntu-de or what have you
<dholbach> #rosetta?
<LaserJock> is it normal to have so many packages in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 ? It seems like a lot
<bddebian> LaserJock: Blame dholbach  ;-P
<LaserJock> lol, that seems like a good way to get banned ;-)
<hwaara> what is the recommended size for a ubuntu installation?
<bddebian> Gah, there are 10 bugs alone on eclipse
<slomo> bddebian: don't touch it... at least that was what i was told... it's doko's
<dholbach> good night - and happy fixing
<bddebian> Gnight Daniel
<bddebian> slomo: Well tell doko to fix the damn thing ;-P
<slomo> bddebian: no :P the last time i ask him something about it he told me to be patient
<slomo> gn8 dholbach
<slomo> ok, good night everybody :)
<bddebian> Gnight slom
<bddebian> +o
<LaserJock> me too, good night everybody
<bddebian> Sheesh :'-(
<bddebian> Gnight LaserJock
<doko> slomo, bddebian: wrong, I did tell you not to upload the next version, that was all. If you have fixes, ok. but I don't see any comment in the bug reports
<bddebian> doko: I'm only kidding.  I just see several bugs on Malone. :-)  You probably don't want me touching it ;-)
<doko> bddebian: add the fixes to the reports
<bddebian> doko: You know ada?
<marcin_ant> hi guys - I got short and simple question to you
<marcin_ant> what should I put into 'Maintainer' line of 'control' file?
<marcin_ant> who is maintainter - me? if I create package?
<bddebian> marcin_ant: Sounds good :-)
<marcin_ant> bddebian: hmm so maintainer = packager?
<marcin_ant> bddebian: and what if I want just modify package?
<bddebian> marcin_ant: Usually you leave the maintainer and just add a changelog entry
<marcin_ant> bddebian: and there already is some name in 'Maintainer' section?
<bddebian> marcin_ant: There has been some discussion about changing the maintainer stuff for Ubuntu and that may happen in breezy+1 I don't know.
<marcin_ant> bddebian: ok
<marcin_ant> bddebian: anyway if I create some new package and there is no maintainter yet
<marcin_ant> bddebian: then I can put my name in this section - right?
<bddebian> Should be fine
<marcin_ant> bddebian: (not 'source' maintainter - like hmm for example - Davyd for gnome-applets or something?)
<marcin_ant> bddebian: btw, some 'personal' question ;)
<marcin_ant> bddebian: do you work for Canonical?
<bddebian> marcin_ant: No, you can just be the "package maintainer"
<bddebian> No, I don't work for Canonical.  I wish :-)
<marcin_ant> bddebian: heh I thought that they pay you for support on this channel and development - or something :)
<marcin_ant> bddebian: 'cause I can see that you spend really a lot of time here
<bddebian> I just have no life ;-)
<marcin_ant> bddebian: LOL
<marcin_ant> bddebian: I'm talking with bot ;)
<marcin_ant> bddebian: never thought that so advanced bots are available already :D
<bddebian> heh
<marcin_ant> bddebian: just joking
<marcin_ant> bddebian: but in fact when I see some guys hanging on *ubuntu channels all day I always wonder what do they do as their job, how do they make money etc.
<bddebian> I'm an IT Manager for a small flavor company
<marcin_ant> bddebian: related with linux? (this company)
<bddebian> Not hardly.  We're an all MS shop :-)
<marcin_ant> hehe
<marcin_ant> so 'typical way' you make money on MS and use Linux as hobby?
<bddebian> Pretty much unfortunately
<marcin_ant> hmm I wish I could to find a good way to make money on linux/ubuntu...
<bddebian> Don't we all ;-)
<marcin_ant> :>
<ajmitch> most of us here probably make nothing on our work :)
<crimsun> bddebian: I'm around for ~5 minutes (going to the airport to pick up my sister; I just drove back from Atlanta)
<crimsun> bddebian: what's needed?
<ajmitch> hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi ajmitch
<crimsun> Lathiat: my hunch is a config.{guess,sub} issue, but I haven't had time to debug; I've been out of town.
<bddebian> Heya crimsun .  Just wondering about Malone 2928
<crimsun> bddebian: (looking).
<crimsun> hmm, I presume the reporter means "...to shutdown or reboot the computer"
<crimsun> (the Xfce4 modifier there doesn't really make sense)
<bddebian> Aye.
<crimsun> hmph, I wonder how that can be rigged
<bddebian> If it's a valid request, I can try to poke around
<crimsun> I think it's valid; you may want to poll #xubuntu (might be quiet at this day/hour) and/or xubuntu-devel list
<bddebian> OK
<bddebian> I think I'm just gonna play video games tonight at this rate.. :-)
<crimsun> though Xfce isn't semantically tied to how the reboot/shutdown works from within GNOME, it makes sense to allow it without a gksudo or something
<pef> bye !
<bddebian> Later pef
<crimsun> ok, disappearing for a bit, be back later.
<bddebian> Later crimsun, have "fun" ;-)
<ajmitch> ok, finished watching movie, now what bugs should I fix?
<bddebian> ajmitch: All of them
<bddebian> ajmitch: Do you know ada? :-)
<amalthea> how do i solve this error: "E: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet?
<amalthea> "
<amalthea>  when running sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
<amalthea> i've run pbuilder create
<amalthea> please? we're having trouble getting started developing here.
<amalthea> how can we resolve this problem?  "E: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet?
<seth_k|lappy> you must've not run "sudo pbuilder create"
<amalthea> we did, we ran "sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy"
<seth_k|lappy> did you follow http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto?
<seth_k|lappy> you have to create for Hoary, then update to Breezy
<amalthea> ah ok, i'll try that then
<amalthea> what's the easiest way to find out in which package a given string is (in order to localize it / correct it)?
<bddebian> amalthea: ??
<amalthea> what?
<bddebian> "which package a given string is" ??
<amalthea> I am using ubuntu. I find a typo in the translation somewhere. How do I find out to which package I have to go?
<bddebian> Uhm, whatever package you found the typo in?
<amalthea> That is the whole point of my question. If I don't know what package I am in?
<amalthea> For example I'm setting some preference in the ubuntu system... how the heck do I know which package it is?
<ajmitch> actually the point of the system is that you don't know what package you're in, but that it appears as a whole :)
<amalthea> yeah but it doesn't make it easier for me when I want to quickly correct a grammatical error in the translation :)
<amalthea> ajmitch, do you have any suggestion ?
<ajmitch> many applications should have 'translate this application' in the help menu now if they're part of main
<amalthea> ok, so if JoeBlow makes an application, this menu won't be in it?
<amalthea> "Translate this app" is _only_ in apps that ubuntu people translate?
<ajmitch> only in those apps that have launchpad integration
<amalthea> ok
<amalthea> ajmitch, so how come Firefox has that menuitem?
<tseng> because we added it
<amalthea> to sum it up, I'm confused about which applications ubuntu people translate and which translations that are made by other projects
<ajmitch> part of the 'ubunut experience' :)
<tseng> it doesnt matter who translates it
<tseng> we automatically merge translations from upstream and ubuntu together
<ajmitch> and contribute translations back upstream
<amalthea> so if I translate one string in firefox, and the rest comes from the mozilla l10n project...
<amalthea> how does that work? they are merged?
<tseng> yes.
<amalthea> isn't it easier if you have a clear division between projects that we translate and then projects that others translate?
<amalthea> maybe it's just me being confused here...
<tseng> it is
<amalthea> ok...?
<ajmitch> why divide it up like that?
<tseng> ok listen
<tseng> the current i18n l10n whatever you want to call it system is geeky
<tseng> you need technically proficient people to get into translating upstream this way
<tseng> rosetta is a tool to let anyone translate strings in an application with a simple web interface
<tseng> and it automates merging with the traditional po files
<tseng> upstream and downstream and wherever you want
<tseng> you are looking for a problem that isnt here
<amalthea> the rosetta tool is great
<tseng> but?
<amalthea> but some translations are made by the ubuntu project, and some by others. why can I go to launchpad and translate a project that 1) already is translated elsewhere and 2) is not a ubuntu project?
<tseng> sigh
<tseng> did you look at rosetta yet
<amalthea> I've already used it man :)
<tseng> then you would know that it includes upstream translations
<tseng> https://launchpad.net/products/abiword/+translations
<tseng> note the color codes
<ajmitch> and you can get other upstream projects imported into rosetta, iirc
<tseng> it works on top of upstream strings
<tseng> not in place of them
<tseng> if you are still concerned you should talk to the rosetta mailing list
<tseng> im sure they could better explain the synchronization effors
<amalthea> ok, I think the whole upstream thing is what I'm missing
<amalthea> do you have a page or something describing it? tried searching the wiki without luck
<amalthea> basically I'm confused about the division between "what belongs to ubuntu" and "what is just included in ubuntu but is maintained on other sites"
<tseng> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaUseCases?highlight=%28rosetta%29
<tseng> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RosettaWorkflow?highlight=%28rosetta%29
<tseng> some use cases
<tseng> most of luanchpad doesnt have thorough documentation yet, like i said you can ask the mailing list for specifics
<amalthea> in which package do i find the "shut down"-string in the log out-dialogue window?
<amalthea> (in launchpad/rosetta that is)
<ajmitch> gdm or gnome-session, I guess
<amalthea> what is the difference between hibernate and suspend?
<amalthea> when logging out?
<Amaranth> hibernate turns the computer off completely
<Amaranth> suspend just puts it in low-power mode, iirc
<Amaranth> suspend-to-ram, it's supposed to only use as much power as the RAM needs to keep the information
<amalthea> so, what's the difference between shut down and hibernate?
<Amaranth> hibernate saves your current state to swap and then resumes it when you turn the computer back on, so other than the time needed to reload that state it's like you never turned the computer off
<amalthea> also, when i choose hibernate the computer is locked, not shutted down
<Amaranth> err
<amalthea> i.e. i get a screensave with a lock function
<Amaranth> yeah, that's not what is supposed to happen
<amalthea> so why does it?
<Amaranth> what am i, god? ;)
<Amaranth> i have no idea, i only know the 10,000 ft view of how all this stuff works
<amalthea> so it's just a bug, right?
<Amaranth> the details are mostly lost on me
<Amaranth> yeah, i'd say so
<amalthea> well, thanks for the help
<bmonty> amalthea: you have to enable suspend to RAM in /etc/default/acpi-support
<bddebian> Fuck an hour and a half to build lyx only to FTBFS :-(
<Lathiat> bddebian: heh
<bddebian> Hey, that's not funny :-)
<Lathiat> \sh_away: gah
<Lathiat> \sh_away: libofx ->
<Lathiat> \sh_away: .la wasnt the only file
<Lathiat> \sh_away: /usr/lib/libofx.a
<bmonty> bddebian: is lyx FTBFS on i386?  It was working a week ago.
<bmonty> and yeah it takes awhile to compile
<bmonty> I had to put up with that just to add a desktop file and icon :(
<bddebian> bmonty: Aye.  I was just trying to add an xml file for mime types :-)
<bmonty> like I said...annoying!
<crimsun> no love for delayed flights and lost luggage, no sir.
<tritium> hey crimsun.  On travel?
<crimsun> tritium: hi. Yep.
<bddebian> crimsun: Amen to that
<tritium> crimsun: sorry to hear about the problemw
<tritium> problems
<crimsun> just a bit o' clothing, nothing much.
<bmonty> crimsun: I always get a good chuckle at the jackasses they hire to drive my luggage out to the house
<tritium> Where are you off to, crimsun?
<crimsun> tritium: back from Atlanta
<crimsun> I had to pick up my sister from the airport, and NWA lost her luggage - shipped it to LAX instead of GSO.
<tritium> yikes
<tritium> Isn't Atlanta a bit far from IBM?
<crimsun> Then they discovered that they _think_ they shipped it to LAX.
<crimsun> (I'm in NC currently with the university.)
<tritium> Oh, I didn't realize you were still with the university.  I thought the IBM job was a permanent move.
* bmonty curses at this friggin cdbs package
<bmonty> bddebian: feel like uploading a package for me?
<bddebian> bmonty: Sure
<bmonty> can I email you a debdiff?
<bddebian> Sure
<bddebian> bddebian@comcast.net
<bmonty> sent
<bmonty> what is the convention to mark a package as fixed on the FTBFS pages?
<bddebian> Good freakin' question :-0
<Lathiat> delete it?
<Lathiat> make sure you wait till its uploaded
<Amaranth> remove it from the list and/or write something next to it
<Lathiat> and that it builds on all arches
<Lathiat> or at least, mark it off the arches it does build on
<bmonty> k
<bddebian> bmonty: Uploaded
<bmonty> thanks, bddebian
<bddebian> NP, gotta be good for SOMETHING ;-)
<Lathiat> thats what you think
<bmonty> ok, then get me a beer :)
<Lathiat> he'll probably forget to uncap it ;p
<Lathiat> Yagisan: what city are you in?
<bmonty> or make a pour with too much head
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> poor bddebian
* bmonty likes his guiness with a shamrock in the head
<Yagisan> Lathiat: Sydney
<Lathiat> Yagisan: ah cool
<Lathiat> Yagisan: <-- perth
<Yagisan> Lathiat: Specifically, Lidcombe
<Yagisan> Lathiat: cool - I had my business cards shipped from Perth, they were better then the local businesses
<bmonty> seems like there are lots of aussies hacking on Ubuntu :)
<bddebian> Heh
<Yagisan>  really - your not one too :-P
<Lathiat> Yagisan: lol
<Yagisan> anyone here familiar with qemu ?
<bmonty> who me? I would never make that claim :)
* Yagisan really wants multi-client-arch support in ltsp
<Yagisan> can anyone here build powerpc chroots ?
<Yagisan> I got a "chroot: cannot run command `mount': No such file or directory"
<Yagisan> when is dapper out ?
<bmonty> this month
<bmonty> Yagisan: I think that error happens if you forget to delete one of the files when you copy in the apt configuration
<bmonty> did you use the wiki instructions?
<Yagisan> bmonty: I ran the standard debootstrap script: sudo debootstrap --arch powerpc breezy powerpc http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<Yagisan> bmonty: the thing is I can run the individual programs - but debootstrap failed on me
<Yagisan> bmonty: and I correctly set up binfmt_misc
<bmonty> Yagisan: check out the pbuilder howto in the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<bmonty> not sure if that will help...I don't use debootstrap
<Yagisan> bmonty: Thanks - I double checked that first though
<Yagisan> bmonty: I'm trying to figure out if my bug is in debootstrap, qemu or is pebac
<Yagisan> bmonty: (amd64)jamie@doomguy:/opt/ltsp$ uname -a
<Yagisan> Linux doomguy 2.6.12-9-amd64-k8 #1 Thu Oct 6 11:47:16 BST 2005 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<Yagisan> bmonty: (amd64)jamie@doomguy:/opt/ltsp$ file /opt/ltsp/powerpc/bin/pwd
<Yagisan> /opt/ltsp/powerpc/bin/pwd: ELF 32-bit MSB executable, PowerPC or cisco 4500, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
<Yagisan> bmonty: (amd64)jamie@doomguy:/opt/ltsp$ /opt/ltsp/powerpc/bin/pwd
<Yagisan> /opt/ltsp
<bmonty> cool
<Yagisan> bmonty: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17297 I'm trying to get "non-trivial" support going
<bmonty> Yagisan: looks over my head...about the only thing I know about ltsp is what is stands for
<Yagisan> bmonty: no worries - I need it working for work so I did the trivial stuff quickly - now for the non-trivial
<Yagisan> bmonty: who knows - I may get my own full multi-arch going :)
<bmonty> this would allow you to have a different arch on the client than what is on the server?
<bmonty> or is it to get the software to build for other arches?
<Yagisan> bmonty: It's for clients that are different to the server
<Yagisan> bmonty: future plans are to expand it to build for non-native arch
<Yagisan> bmonty: At work I have one 2GHz amd64 box - and several 233-333MHz P2/K62 boxes. standard ubuntu ltsp didn't support that
<bmonty> at least you aren't locked into a single vendor for terminals :)
<Yagisan> bmonty: that is one of the best reasons - I'm trying to add support for powerpc, sparc, arm and i386 on various hosts
<Yagisan> bmonty: started with powerpc as ubuntu supports that officially
<bmonty> I've been trying to get some of network guys to look at terminal servers at my work
<bmonty> our workstations are locked down so hard they might as well be terminals
<Yagisan> bmonty: the only issues I've found are 1) opengl is software only so far
<Yagisan> 2) depending on how many clients you have you may need to upgrade some network infrastructure
<Yagisan> bmonty: that means - no multiple terminals running wesnoth or vegastrike for me
<bmonty> Yagisan: opengl won't be an issue...and I think scalability would be the biggest problem to solve.
<Yagisan> bmonty: depending on your workload opengl is an issue - when you run an opengl app it chews bandwidth
<bmonty> I mean...opengl isn't an issue because it wouldn't be used
<Yagisan> bmonty: I did some tests in 2004 - scalablity isn't to much of a problem
<bmonty> what was the bandwidth of the network?
<Yagisan> bmonty: I use it, and iirc oo2.org uses opengl
<bmonty> Yagisan: it would be running windows
<Yagisan> bmonty: 100Mbps, full duplex - 1 server - 30 clients for the demo
<bmonty> not bad
<Yagisan> bmonty: I wanted Gige on the server - but I could not "borrow" a switch in time
<Yagisan> but that was all linux based
<bmonty> if they ever deployed it they would use windows terminal server
<Yagisan> windows uses a more bandwidth and has trouble with lots of clients
<bmonty> Yagisan: yeah, I don't think they are quite production quality yet
<bmonty> no matter what the hype is
<Yagisan> bmonty: the resources it (windows) needs on the server for terminal services is massive compared to ltsp
<bmonty> no doubt...they want you to buy more servers and thus more terminal server licenses
<Yagisan> bmonty: wine is working well at the moment - have you tried the "essential" apps on that ?
<bmonty> unfortunately linux is not an option
<Yagisan> bmonty: I had a few clients playing "Total Annilihation" via wine on ltsp yesterday to show off the trivial multi-client-arch support
<Yagisan> bmonty: that sucks
<bmonty> cool...I might have to try playing with that at home once I get OpenLDAP and kerberos working
<bmonty> (my current project)
<bmonty> brb
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<bmonty> good night everyone
<Yagisan> bmonty: Good night
<x_madbot> rbelem_, ping
<Kyral> GoodNight guys and gals. If all goes well, tomarrow you may see one of my original creations hit REVU
<sivang> Kyral: night :) (I wonder what is that creation of yours)
<jmg> ugh eric docbrowser is broken
* jmg checks out source
<xophEr> I wonder if someone would like to implement this into ubuntu: http://sensors-applet.sourceforge.net/ there are debs available for debian but to have it in the ubu-repos would be nice :) This is a gnome-panel applet that shows the cpu temp, fan speeds and voltage readings..
<robitaille> it seems to be available in sid:  http://packages.debian.org/unstable/gnome/sensors-applet
<xophEr> I know it is, but sid is not ubuntu ;)
<tritium> ajmitch: did your latest synced package already build?  Mine did, minus the ia64...
<tritium> Well, I'll check in the morning.  Good night.
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<ajmitch> I have to get working, my bug count has fallen below bddebian's again
<Lathiat> haha
<ajmitch> mm, not good
<ajmitch> most of the last kde upload is failing to build
<Lathiat> oh nice
<Lathiat> is it just stuff waiting for new deps?
<ajmitch> 808	After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:
<ajmitch> 809	libarts1-dev(inst 1.4.2-0ubuntu3 ! >= wanted 1.4.3-0ubuntu1)
<ajmitch> so just building out of order
<Lathiat> how did it install the deps in the first place?
<\sh> it will recompile
<Lathiat> if it had a versioned dep shouldnt it have failed off the start?
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah, but it would be nice to build on the first try, this close to release
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I would have thought so
<ajmitch> not our problem anyway
<\sh> now I have to get a small patch in irssi-text because I forgot about it since 3 months
<Lathiat> ajmitch: its mark and riddel's funeral :)
<Lathiat> \sh: whats it do?
<\sh> Lathiat: fixes a typo in irssi.1 ,-)
<Lathiat> heh
<\sh> a very important fix ,-)
<Lathiat> the pppoeconf bug is still buggered, damnit
<ajmitch> \sh: good luck sneaking it past mdz :P
<\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11459
<\sh> well...I had more important stuff to do then fixing typos ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: it might break the release!
<\sh> hahaha
<\sh> shit...we have to postpone the release because of a typo in a manpage...hell...
* ajmitch can see it now on /. - breezy release delayed a weel due to manual typo
<ajmitch> s/weel/week/
<ajmitch> anyway, avahi 0.5.2 is in, so that's all that matters
<\sh> a month...because this typo breaks gcc4 and won't compile on amd64 ,-)
<Lathiat> 
<ajmitch> well considering how many devs use irssi it's probably release critical :)
<Lathiat> haha
<\sh> I'll get all the blame
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> they'll have to sack you ;)
<\sh> well...approved ;)
<ajmitch> mm, /.
<ajmitch> expensive satellite lost on launch ;)
<ajmitch> obviously a conspiracy to cover up global warming ;)
<pef> hello
<\sh> wow..alan parsons project - Eye in the Sky --> Early in the morning means, this will be a good day
<\sh> and irssi is uploaded now
<ajmitch> yay
<xophEr> Is there going to be a gnome clipboard daemon ? or is there already :)
<spayne> i thought it was a feaure of 2.12
<spayne> but it doesn't work for me
<spayne> because i copy something and close the app
<spayne> it is gnome
<ajmitch> time for me to do an RC install
<ajmitch> once I find a blank cd :)
<chx> hi. How can I get a module (ATXP1) into Universe?
<ajmitch> a module?
<chx> it's very useful for those who happen who have an Attansic ATXP1 chip on their motherboard, very popular VRM one
<chx> yes, a module
<ajmitch> a kernel module, you mean?
<chx> yes, yes
<chx> i downloaded, make && make install, works nicely.
<ajmitch> has someone made a package of it?
<chx> hmmmm not
<chx> and as I google around this will be moot soon
<chx> patch-2.6.13-rc1-git2 contains the atxp1 driver :)
<ajmitch> well that was quick...
<sivang> remorning all
* dooglus whispers "bug 2502" (small typo remaining) to \sh
<ajmitch> hi sivang, \sh (again), dooglus
<dooglus> hi
<dooglus> I notice that a very few packages break their own md5sums using a post-install script.  should I report them?
<dooglus> it means that "debsums -s" always mentions them
<dooglus> an example is: $ debsums -s capplets-data
<dooglus> debsums: checksum mismatch capplets-data file /usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache
<ajmitch> considering how the use of debsums isn't *that* widespread
<ajmitch> you'd be filing a lot of wishlist bugs
<sivang> \sh: Can I help out on the UnivserseFTBS with a breezy pbuilder under hoary?
<crimsun> sivang: absolutely
<sivang> crimsun: k, btw, does anybody know where to get the vmware any-to-any patch to make it work under breezy?
<sivang> s/anybody/you/
<xophEr> sivang, I can send it to you
<\sh> sivang: sure
<sivang> xophEr: or tell me where to get it from on the web =)
<xophEr> sivang, here http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/
<\sh> fixing the rest of universe now ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: good, I hope you have it fixed by the time I get up tomorrow ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: lol...
<\sh> ajmitch: help me dude ;)
<\sh> we only have <3 days ;)
<\sh> <4days sry
<ajmitch> plenty of time for you to work
<\sh> only today...tomorrow I have a shitload of work in the office :(
<\sh> argl...and now I forgot the right debuild call
<\sh> -v 1.12.1-2ubuntu2 -S *grmpf*
<\sh> anyways
<ajmitch> no -sa?
<\sh> fck
<\sh> u see...
<ajmitch> usually if you need -v, you need -sa :)
<\sh> yes
<\sh> I forgot this all *grmpf*
<ajmitch> it's ok, you can upload again now ;)
<\sh> gnarf
<sivang> xophEr: that a binary patch? which file from there to use?
<sivang> xophEr: ah thank you, I didn't realize I had dcc xfer enabled
<xophEr> :)
<\sh> bmonty_laptop: ping
<tseng> Lathiat: i could do partial views in smarty, right?
<Lathiat> tseng: yes
<tseng> Lathiat: just call the "render" thing multiple times
<Lathiat> i just include a template from anotehr template
<tseng> oh
<tseng> that works too
<Lathiat> you can also call render on multiple templates
<tseng> if i include another template
<tseng> it runs the right controller code?
<tseng> im talking about splitting up a common segment
<ajmitch> I really have to remove gnome-screensaver sometime soon
<tseng> i draw a very similar table over and over
<tseng> ajmitch: good one
<Lathiat> tseng: so, i includea c mmon php file
<Lathiat> *common
<\sh> bah
<\sh> xkeycaps
<Lathiat> so i guess i'd set that kinda stuff up there
<Lathiat> or something
<ajmitch> tseng: only way I can unlock the screen at the moment is gnome-screensaver-command --deactivate via ssh
<\sh> fixed one bug and catch another
<Lathiat> smarty doesnt really link controllers and views
<Lathiat> you just render templates
<Lathiat> you could include some php from two files to acheive that effect
<tseng> a bit kludgey, but better than the six copies i have intermixed with other php atm
<Lathiat> right
<tseng> one thing we'll see how well it works is calling ajax functions on a partial template
<tseng> and refilling a div
<tseng> we'll see tommorow :)
<tseng> i am busy porting applications to breezy
<Lathiat> heh
<\sh> ok..I'll fix now xkeycaps, have a shower afterwards, and a beer ,)
<\sh> wow fixed
<zakame> eh? xtla isn't in Ubuntu?
<zakame> is there a MOTUEmacs team?
<vrln> the fam package in universe seems broken, at least dependency wise
<zakame> how borken?
<vrln> http://pastebin.com/387914
<vrln> it wants to remove a huge amount of packages if I try to install it
<zakame> gaah, seems there's a conflict... how about if you try to install only portmap?
<vrln> that works fine
<zakame> hmm, then I guess its the fam that's causing the conflict
<zakame> iirc gnome packages use gamin
<zakame> hi slomo
<\sh> re and moins slomo  :)
<tseng> gamin is meant to be compatible with fam
<slomo> hi zakame
<slomo> tseng: yes
<zakame> tseng: yep
<tseng> thats for sh
<\sh> whats for me? ,-)
<tseng> sigh
<tseng> < tseng> gamin is meant to be compatible with fam
<\sh> hmmm
<zakame> lighttpd also (optionally) depends on fam, but it can also use gamin :)
<tseng> ew lighttpd
<\sh> tseng: nothing for me...I think u meant vrln
<tseng> i used that for awhile, it does evil things
<zakame> tseng: how evil?
<tseng> i was using pyblosxom cgi
<tseng> and it started sending messed up headers
<vrln> tseng: ah, it's just that beep-media-player-x (the new cairo version which will be out soonish I think) wants fam, complains about fam.h missing
<zakame> ah
<tseng> and somehow getting a bunch of stupid #s injected into my page
<vrln> and it doesn't seem to be able to use gamin at all
<tseng> uh
<zakame> hmmm, that's interesting, putting that in my notes
<tseng> libgamin-dev includes fam.h
<zakame> yep... and in my case, that required pkg-config as well
<vrln> tseng: oh - indeed - thanks
<\sh> oh well...time for a beer
<slomo> \sh: a beer that early in the morning? ;)
<\sh> slomo: I'm awake since 7 ;)
<\sh> slomo: and it's sunday ;)
<slomo> i'm awake since 15 minutes ;)
<\sh> slomo: ah..lazy lazy ;)
<\sh> slomo: i just compiled
<\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/pbuilder/result/breezy$ du -c -m
<\sh> 211     .
<\sh> 211     insgesamt
<\sh> until now ;)
<\sh> just joking ;)
<slomo> hmm... mine is 572 mb ;)
<zakame> hmm.. is there any reason why xtla isn't in universe, when it's in debian sid? :)
<\sh> zakame: because noone requested it?
<\sh> what is xtla anyways?
<zakame> \sh: its in UniverseCandidates
<zakame> \sh: an Emacs interface to Arch/Bazaar
<\sh> zakame: so check it please if it's compiling on breezy and then we could request a sync just before release
<zakame> \sh: ok, thanks =)
<xophEr> you guys know why I cant change the ubuntu-logo in the gnome-panel to something else? Ive tried replacing and renaming the /usr/share/pixmaps/gnome-logo-icon-transparent.png but no effect.. worked before though, dont know why it doesnt work know.. all I did was a dist-upgrade :)
<\sh> zakame: and give me an update
<\sh> zakame: would be cool if you have a result before 13:00 UTC...
<zakame> \sh: waah!  No emacs yet for breezy, and I'm on a dialup! :(
<\sh> zakame: uh..ok..I'm just fixing xemacs21 and check xtla
<\sh> moins dholbach
<zakame> \sh: I'll try to build it then :)
<dholbach> hi
<dholbach> hey \sh :)
<zakame> heya dholbach :)
<\sh> zakame: no problem...I'll do it
<dholbach> zakame: hey :)
<zakame> \sh: thanks again! :)
<\sh> well...listening to SKY FM - 80ies internet radio...and fixing xemacs21...that's what I need for a sunday
<zakame> why, what's up with xemacs21?
<\sh> xbitmaps is missing as build-deps ...but that's not all
<\sh> well..and when the release is done...I should clean my flat...
<zakame> hehe
<\sh> or somehow get a cleaning maid ;)
<\sh> grmpf...
<\sh> I need tickets for nokia night of the proms
<\sh> Roger Daltrey, Manfred Mann, Chris Thomson, Nubya, Midge Ure and Safri Duo...+ the normal surrounding
<zakame> brb, havta eat() or die("starvation");
<\sh> ok...xemacs21 fixed
<\sh> dholbach: do u know when the buildds are closing?
<dholbach> some hours before
<dholbach> for hoary i stopped uploading like 2-3 hours before
<tseng> haha
<\sh> k
<\sh> I'll think we will make it ;)
<sivang> rehi all, back from lunch
<\sh> hey sivang
* \sh thinks we have to rename breezy badger ;) in Breezy "The Frh Klsch" Badger release ,-)
<\sh> ogra: pils or koelsch for the 14/15/16th?
<sivang> \sh: what does it mean ? =)
<\sh> sivang: Klsch == a local cologne beer, and Frh Klsch a local cologne beer brand ;) this is what I'm drinking since Breezy cycle started ,-)
<sivang> \sh: lol, seems I need to get some myself to become more productive. Is it helping you to keep awake?
<\sh> sivang: haha....no the opposite of "keep awake" but it's better for having fun during compiling ;)
<\sh> sivang: if you wanna taste it, i can try to smuggle some to UBZ ;)
<sivang> \sh: you're already brining that book , I don't want to make you carry too many stuff, and besdies I'm not a good drinker ;-)
<\sh> sivang: well...I'm a man, so I don't need to carry so much of clothes ;)
<\sh> sivang: doesn't matter...I think I can take only 2 or 3 bottles
<tseng> Lathiat: im sold on smarty
<tseng> Lathiat: :P
<Lathiat> tseng: yeh? i foudn it nifty
<tseng> it will really clean up a few things
<\sh> smarty? php template engine?
<tseng> and be another step closer to rails
<tseng> it will be easier to port if things are already split up
<tseng> \sh: yes.
<\sh> tseng: ah..we're using it for s9y
<tseng> awesome
<\sh> that's why s9y is one of the best blog engines ever ;)
<tseng> i need to figure out php OO too
<Lathiat> yeh i tried to do php OO once
<Lathiat> i wrote a nifty database thing
<sivang> xopher_: do I just run runme.pl and everythign get's patched automatically?
<xopher_> sivang, yes
<xopher_> then just follow directions :)
<sivang> xopher: cool, so I will dist-upgrade now :)
* sivang pokes sources.list
<xopher> ^^
<sivang> xopher: ?
<sivang> xopher: directions told me by the runme.pl , you mean?
<sivang> dholbach: then off to see what with bddebian's cyphesis-cpp
<xopher> sivang, exactly, it tells you to run vmware-config.pl (and asks if it should do it for you), nothing more :)
<\sh> xopher: u updated vmware with this vmware-update-any-any stuff?
<\sh> xopher: and set CC=gcc-3.4 before starting vmware-config.pl?
<sivang> hmm, I think we use gcc4 in breezy, so I would have to downgrade the pkg?
<\sh> but not for the kernel
<sivang> \sh: but still, vmware-config.pl would look for the 3.4 gcc no?
<\sh> sivang: no
<sivang> xopher: what kernel are you using your vmware with?
<\sh> sivang: the default compiler is still gcc-4 so you have to override it
<\sh> hmm..elmo will have fun this evening ;)
<slomo> why
<slomo> ?
<sivang> \sh: what have you prepared for him you naughty ? :)
<sivang> hmm
<sivang> Preparing to replace dictionaries-common 0.24.4 (using .../dictionaries-common_0.49.2ubuntu1_all.deb) ...
<sivang> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
<sivang> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
<sivang>         LANGUAGE = "en_IL:en_US:en_GB:en",
<sivang>         LC_ALL = (unset),
<sivang>         LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
<sivang>     are supported and installed on your system.
<\sh> sivang: a lot of syncs ;)
<sivang> LOTS of those
<xopher> \sh, yes
<tseng> apt-get install language-pack-en
<xopher> Im using the ubuntu stock kernel; 2.6.12-9-amd64-k8
<sivang> is this known:
<sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
<sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb
<sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<sivang> I got that in the end of the dist-upgrade
<sivang> \sh: how can I check what went wrong?
<\sh> sivang: hmmm....
<\sh> sivang: check for universe or not..
<sivang> \sh: universe is enabled for me, yes
<slomo> sivang: libmp4v2 is mine ;) what exactly happened?
<dholbach> what are the messages before?
<sivang> sec
<sivang> Preparing to replace python2.4-pycurl 7.12.3-1ubuntu1 (using .../python2.4-pycurl_7.14.0-1ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...
<sivang> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
<\sh> wich package?
<sivang> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
<sivang>         LANGUAGE = "en_IL:en_US:en_GB:en",
<sivang>         LC_ALL = (unset),
<sivang>         LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
<sivang>     are supported and installed on your system.
<sivang> perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C").
<sivang> Unpacking replacement python2.4-pycurl ...
<dholbach> that's ok
<sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
<sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb
<sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<slomo> sivang: apt-get -f install
<slomo> sivang: what happens then?
<sivang> dholbach: what's the origin for the error?
<dholbach> the message must have been before
<sivang> slomo: I wanted to wait before I -f install
<sivang> slomo: possibly get some help here to track the problem :)
<sivang> I also got this interesting one:
<sivang> Preparing to replace bluefish 1.0+cvs2005021601-0ubuntu1 (using .../bluefish_1.0.1-0ubuntu3_i386.deb) ...
<sivang> Unpacking replacement bluefish ...
<sivang> Could not parse file '/usr/share/applications/Web-based System Manager Remote Client.desktop': desktop entry does not start with legal start group
<sivang> I don't recall I ever installed a web based manager remote client :)
<\sh> sivang: bluefish? works here
<Lathiat> i had a problem with mp4v2
<Lathiat> i had marillat in my sources.list
<Lathiat> and it had a newer version that didnt play nice with ubuntu
<sivang> I don't have marillat in my sources
<Lathiat> ok then :)
* sivang wants to track the problem, who knows maybe he can fix them :)
<slomo> Lathiat: that marillat problem is solved
<ivoks> hi
<sivang> so guys, before -f installing, how can I check what went wrong? why didn't dpkg say anything ?
<ivoks> for what package?
<sivang> 15:32 < sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
<sivang> 15:32 < sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb
<dholbach> did you do apt-get install -f?
<sivang> 15:32 < sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<sivang> 15:32 < sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<sivang> ^^^ ivoks
<sivang> dholbach: I can do , but then if it solves it we loose the bug no?
<dholbach> the REAL error message must have been before
<ivoks> don't force it
<dholbach> that's only the summary
<sivang> ivoks: I don't want to :)
<sivang> but dholbach suggested already 2 times
<tseng> sivang: scroll up looking for beep
<dholbach> ????
<dholbach> i didnt
<ivoks> sivang: try installing dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb
<dholbach> i said you should have a look what happened before
<ivoks> sivang: that will tell you what's the problem
<tseng> you mean dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<dholbach> those two packages have no conflicting files
<dholbach> i just checked that
<sivang> dholbach: ok, that's what was before:
<sivang> Unpacking replacement ubuntu-docs ...
<sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory `/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/images/navig': Directory not empty
<sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory `/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/images/callouts': Directory not empty
<sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory `/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/images/admon': Directory not empty
<sivang> but it doesn't seem related
<dholbach> nothing else?
<tseng> those are warnings
<sivang> dholbach: nope
<dholbach> nothing concerning those two packages in question?
<ivoks> sivang: and it installs cleanly then?
<sivang> also:
<sivang> Unpacking replacement python-epydoc ...
<sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory `/usr/lib/site-python/epydoc/test': Directory not empty
<sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory `/usr/lib/site-python/epydoc/markup': Directory not empty
<ivoks> sivang: that's ubuntu-docs
<sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory `/usr/lib/site-python/epydoc': Directory not empty
<ivoks> sivang: STOP!
<sivang> yes :)
<ivoks> sivang: with what package you have problem?
<ivoks> you pasted here 4 packages..
<ivoks> you have problems only with one
<sivang> ivoks: < sivang> 15:32 < sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb
<sivang> 15:36 < sivang> 15:32 < sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<ivoks> wich one?
<sivang> 15:36 < sivang> 15:32 < sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0
<ivoks> sivang: only one of them produces error
<sivang> so the last one?
<sivang> which is /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb ?
<ivoks> sivang: i would bet on last one, yes
<sivang> that was the last package wanted to install
<ivoks> sivang: try dpkg -i that package
<ivoks> sivang: and only that!
<ivoks> not ubuntu-doc
<sivang> ivoks: that's what I'm doing now
<ivoks> sivang: why are you pasting warnings from ubuntu-doc then?
<ivoks> and python-epydoc?
<sivang> ivoks: sorry, I thought it may have been related, I didn't get dholbach beofre
<sivang> ivoks: ah cool, we got the error:
<sivang> ivoks: libmp4-0 and libmp4v2-0 are conflicting on /usr/lib/libmp4v2.so.0.0.0 =)
<slomo> fine
<ivoks> there...
<slomo> where does /usr/lib/libmp4v2.so.0.0.0 come from?
<ivoks> that's the problem
<sivang> slomo: libmp4-0
<slomo> sivang: so you used marillat :P
<Lathiat>   libmp4-0 is not in ubuntu souces
<Lathiat> *sources
<ivoks> sivang: no
<Lathiat> i told you it was marillat way up there ^^ ;p
<ivoks> Lathiat: ++
<Lathiat> or some other source
<ivoks> sivang: you have problems with non-ubuntu packages
<Lathiat> hoary-backports or something
<ivoks> sivang: pleace, consoult your local resaller :)
<sivang> dudes, I have nothing but ubuntu repos on my list
<ivoks> please even :)
<slomo> sivang: i wonder why it isn't removed before libmp4v2 is installed
<sivang> slomo: yes
<Lathiat> sivang: its probably left over then
<Lathiat> sivang: perhaps you previously used marillat
<Lathiat> or whaever
<sivang> hmm
<ivoks> sivang: why would it remove it?
<Lathiat> we should see if we can clear that bug up, since people will no doubt use marillat
<ivoks> sivang: how can we know what packages someone did somewhere?
<slomo> sivang: please keep everything in that state like it's now ;)
<Lathiat> be nice if we didnt have to deal with it
<slomo> sivang: i'll take a look at faad2 to fix this
<sivang> slomo: /me apt-cache show faad2
<sivang> hmm, that's no package
<tseng> showsrc
<dholbach> showsrc?
<sivang> err, thanks guys
<tseng> dholbach: hugs
<dholbach> hey brandon :)))
<tseng> hi
<sivang> hey tseng
<tseng> hi :)
<slomo> Lathiat: it was fixed the wrong way because you told me the wrong package name ;) we currently conflict on libmp4 not libmp4-0
<slomo> Lathiat: :P
<ivoks> anyone has exp with ldap auth?
<tseng> yes
<Lathiat> slomo: i didnt tell you the package name?
<tseng> with apache2
<tseng> mod_auth_ldap
<slomo> Lathiat: who was it then who reported me that problem weeks ago? hmm
<ivoks> tseng: no pam?
<tseng> for pam i use krb5
<tseng> to the PDC
<Lathiat> slomo: not me ;p
<ivoks> tseng: well, i have ldap with users :/
<sivang> slomo: again, what do you want me to do
<sivang> ?
<slomo> sivang: waiting until i uploaded a fixed version... and then do apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
<tseng> ivoks: http://usefulinc.com/edd/blog
<tseng> ivoks: read a few of his recent posts
* Kyral stumbles in looking like he just got outta bed
<Kyral> Mornin....
<ivoks> tseng: thanks, but...
<sivang> Kyral: I understood that you finished testing your program, right? (annd even uploaded it to revu)
<ivoks> tseng: i know how to setup ldap auth
<ivoks> tseng: i did that allready
<ivoks> tseng: i have only problems with ubuntu as a client
<Kyral> sivang soon
<slomo> sivang: so now try to install the other failed package directly with dpkg
<sivang> slomo: k
<ivoks> tseng: it doesn't work if i don't have user in files too
<tseng> ivoks: edd is using ubuntu
<ivoks> tseng: ok, i'll check it out
<Kyral> Claydoh reported no problems with his test run, and I'm gonna slam it into VMs today
<tseng>   account sufficient      pam_ldap.so
<tseng>   account required        pam_unix.so
<tseng> i think this is the key
<tseng> sufficient vs required
<ivoks> tseng: i have that
<Kyral> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2741 <--- Guy fixed his own problem, marking as closed and Rejected
<ivoks> tseng: funny thing is that i don't get Login incorect
<ivoks> tseng: it just doesn't login :)
<slomo> sivang: and...?
<ivoks> brings back getty :/
<sivang> slomo: I don't have the .deb in cache,
<ivoks> tseng: but i'll check out edd's blog
<sivang> slomo: so I can only attempt apt-get install
<slomo> sivang: ?! that can't be ;)
<sivang> slomo: sivan@ubuntu:~$ ls -la /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4*
<sivang> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 213794 Sep  7 16:45 /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<slomo> sivang: the other one was something with python... ipython?
<sivang> so I only have the new one, btw Lathiat I think I did have marilliat some time back, I can see it's P.tgz there
<sivang> slomo: the one before the failing pcakge in the original d-upgrade ?
<slomo> sivang: yes
<sivang> slomo: sec
<zakame> hi all
<sivang> hey zakame
<sivang> slomo: yep it was ipython which I really like :)
<slomo> sivang: so install it via dpkg and look what fails
<sivang> slomo: k
<sivang> also, there's the usual g-v-m crashing :)
<ivoks> ?
<sivang> sivan@ubuntu:~$ sudo dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb
<sivang> (Reading database ... 126234 files and directories currently installed.)
<sivang> Preparing to replace ipython 0.6.15-1ubuntu2 (using .../ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb) ...
<sivang> Unpacking replacement ipython ...
<sivang> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of ipython:
<sivang>  ipython depends on python2.4-ipython; however:
<sivang>   Package python2.4-ipython is not installed.
<sivang>  ipython depends on ipython-common; however:
<sivang>   Package ipython-common is not configured yet.
<sivang> dpkg: error processing ipython (--install):
<sivang> oops, I need to try -common first
<slomo> sivang: stop :P
<sivang>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
<sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
<ivoks> ah...
<sivang> err, sorry for the big pastes
<ivoks> kick him
<ivoks> :)
<slomo> sivang: install ipython, python2.4-ipython and ipython-common at once
<dholbach> sudo apt-get install -f   ....    just do it :)
<sivang> slomo: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of ipython-common:
<sivang>  ipython-common depends on python2.4-ipython | python2.3-ipython; however:
<sivang>   Package python2.4-ipython is not installed.
<sivang>   Package python2.3-ipython is not installed.
<ivoks> again?!
<slomo> dholbach: no! not yet ;)
<sivang> oh man, I'm sucha dumbass , sorry ivoks
<dholbach> sivang: why don't you just give us root on your box and we all have a look at it :)
<dholbach> :)
* dholbach shuts up
<slomo> sivang: dpkg -i  ipython python2.4-ipython ipython-common
<sivang> nahh, I refuse to become a newb again :)
<slomo> sivang: replace the package names with the actual files ;)
<sivang> slomo: yes, I normally know that, but here with the stress of our products release I seem to forget too much :)
<slomo> sivang: don't worry :)
* sivang is speaking with a bunch of folks n the other line
<ivoks> hm...
<sivang> slomo: not working, I gave it python-ipython2.4 but it's inconfigured
<sivang> *unconfigured
<slomo> sivang: give it all three
<ivoks> dpkg --configure 0a
<ivoks> dpkg --configure -a
<ivoks> blah..
<sivang> slomo: I did
<ivoks> sivang: dpkg --configure -a
<sivang> ivoks: what does that do ?
<slomo> sivang: then listen to ivoks ;)
<ivoks> that will think instead of you
<sivang> ivoks: ah, it configures all installed pakcages?
<ivoks> no
<sivang> bah, here are those locale erros again
<ivoks> only unconfigured
<sivang> ivoks: ah cool
<sivang> ivoks: you've been readin the dpkg manual, haven't you ? =)
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> no, this is 8 years of debian practice
<tseng> yay for fighting with sid
<sivang> ivoks: ah =)
<sivang> ivoks: then you're a master dude
<ivoks> sivang: not quite...
<ivoks> tseng: LAT tool rocks :)
<sivang> ivoks: but 8 years, is a long time. I wish I had 8 years of using debian
<ivoks> tseng: it only needs SSL/TLS support :)
<tseng> hm what?
<sivang> slomo: ok, I will retry after configuration is done
<ivoks> tseng: lat is mono app for LDAP :)
<ivoks> tseng: http://people.mmgsecurity.com/~lorenb/lat/
<tseng> oh
<sivang> slomo: btw, if you want someone to care for ipython , I'd be interested
<\sh> ipython installs fine here
<slomo> is someone with an ipod here?
<sivang> not me
<dholbach> brb
<sivang> slomo: ok, python-ipython got configured now, waitinf for dpkg to finish
<slomo> sivang: fine... now please wait until a new libmp4v2 has arrived in the archives ;)
<sivang> slomo: sure, anything for the follow MOTUs :-)
<sivang> sorry for flooding before
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slomo> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya slomo
<xophEr> how do I reset the settings of my gnome-panel?
<zakame> hi bddebian
<sivang> bddebian: Barry!
<sivang> slomo: ok, configuration ended with Errors were encountered while processing:
<sivang>  libfaac0
<sivang> slomo: still waiting for your fix upload, let me knwow hen to dist-upgrade
<slomo> sivang: nice... what is wrong with faac?
<slomo> sivang: it's already uploaded... should be in the archives in 30 minutes
<sivang> slomo: no idea, should I try reconfiguring it selectively?
<bddebian> Hello zakame, sivang
<slomo> sivang: scroll back to the line where it was configured
<sivang> slomo: bah, accidently closed the window
<slomo> sivang: then redo it ;)
<sivang> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libfaac0:
<sivang>  libfaac0 depends on libmp4v2-0 (>= 2.0.0clean); however:
<sivang>   Package libmp4v2-0 is not installed.
<slomo> sivang: ok, ignore until the fix is there ;)
<bmonty> morning all
<sivang> morning bmonty
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> still working on the FTBFS list?
<zakame> hi bmonty
<bmonty> anyone know if the technical board meeting has been officially rescheduled?
<sivang> bmonty: I was trying to find out as well
<sivang> I saw an email from mdz that it was rescheduled to some thrusday, not sure if it was last week or for this week
<bmonty> sivang: I saw that as well, but no reply
<sivang> slomo: let me know when the pakcage is ready for download
<zakame> hmm, when building universe packages can I create a launchpad page for it?
<slomo> sivang: x86 and amd64 is in the main archives... please try
<sivang> slomo: oh, did the fix involved main packages ?
<slomo> sivang: no
<sivang> slomo: ah k, I reach a misunderstanding record today =)
<sivang> slomo: it wants to me -f
<sivang> slomo: before it would go with the dist-upgrade
<slomo> what will apt-get -f install do?
<sivang> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<sivang>   libfaac0: Depends: libmp4v2-0 (>= 2.0.0clean) but it is not installed
<sivang> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
<slomo> what will it do when you apt-get -f install
<sivang> slomo: I will do it now and tell you :)
<sivang> The following extra packages will be installed:
<sivang>   libmp4v2-0
<sivang> The following NEW packages will be installed:
<sivang>   libmp4v2-0
<sivang> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
<slomo> ok
<slomo> do it
<sivang> slomo: still it doesn't show it removed the previous one, is that ok?
<slomo> try it
<sivang> bah,
<sivang> got the overwrite error again
<slomo> what version of libmp4v2-0 will be installed?
<slomo> ubuntu1 or ubuntu2?
<sivang> ubuntu1
<slomo> that's the old version
<sivang> I need to refresh the cach then
<sivang> how do I do that?
<slomo> dpkg --remove libmp4v2-0 && apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
<slomo> and use archive.ubuntu.com in your sources.list
<slomo> no local mirror, they don't have it yet
<sivang> ah
<sivang> damm
<sivang> ok
<sivang> since i got this again:
<sivang> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<sivang>   libfaac0: Depends: libmp4v2-0 (>= 2.0.0clean) but it is not installed
<slomo> ok removed it?
<sivang> seems so, i now update from a.u.c
<sivang> yay!!!
<sivang> finally
<sivang> Preconfiguring packages ...
<sivang> (Reading database ... 126284 files and directories currently installed.)
<sivang> Removing libmp4-0 ...
<sivang> (Reading database ... 126274 files and directories currently installed.)
<sivang> Unpacking libmp4v2-0 (from .../libmp4v2-0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ...
<sivang> Setting up libmp4v2-0 (2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu2) ...
<sivang> Setting up libfaac0 (1.24clean-0ubuntu3) ...
<sivang> and done :)
<bmonty> hmm...looks like I broke zapping :(
<sivang> slomo: thank you
<sivang> slomo: do you recall how I enable usplash ?
<slomo> sivang: np :)
<slomo> sivang: no idea
<sivang> ok, time for the first reboot after the dist-upgrade
<sivang> laterz dudes
<bmonty> bye sivang
<sivang> yay, I'm now on breezy from work
<sivang> Has anyone bumped into the gnome session files permission error when first logging through gdm after the upgrade?
<sivang> I happend to me now and on other 2 machines already
<dholbach> re
<bddebian> Heya Daniel
<dholbach> re barry :)
<sivang> bddebian: ok, I now have a breezy box at work, will go recreate the pbuilder here again <g>
<bddebian> sivang: Cool
<slomo> sivang: and everything works fine? ;)
<sivang> slomo: seems so, besides a couple of evo crashes :)
<slomo> sivang: crash or freeze? ;)
<sivang> slomo: crashes :)
<slomo> oh, that's probably something new
<sivang> also , the evolution link from the panel is broken
<sivang> I wonder if I can try make seb a patch (I'm already familiar with the panel package(
<sivang> ah very nice, I also have GUI probelms, evo looses it's borders :)
<slomo> better make a patch for the crashes and freezes ;)
<spayne> slomo: how can i get GNOME mount my ipod
<slomo> spayne: i don't have an ipod so ask someone else ;) i don't know anything about ipods
<spayne> anyone here have an ipod?
<sivang> yay, pbuilder runs faster here. 6MB downstream
<jhonny> hi guys, will sun's java sdk be on breezy repositories?
<tseng> no, its not distributable
<jhonny> ok
<markuman> \sh: my adress is now whitelisted
<sivang> bddebian: when I add repos to my pbuilder, do I need to do pbuilder update --distribution hoary --override-config ?
<sivang> bddebian: I mean, why is it needed to --override-config ?
<bddebian> sivang: That saves any setting changes afaik
<bddebian> sivang: And you should upgrade your pbuilder to breezy ;-)
<sivang> bddebian: it's alrady breezy, I just copied from the wiki since I didn't understand why this is teh recommendation
<sivang> ok, pbuilder finished
<bmonty> sivang: the wiki tells how to make a pbuilder in hoary, and then upgrade to breezy
<hub> spacey_ki: it should just work
<hub> oo
<sivang> bmonty: thanks, overlooking again.
<hub> spayne: it should just work
<bmonty> if you have breezy installed you can just change everything to breezy
<bmonty> and not do the upgrade at all
* hub hate xchat completion
<sivang> bddebian: see, I'm much more stupid then you thought you was =)
<bddebian> sivang: Bah
<sivang> bddebian: right, I should have said "were" instead of was ;-)
<bmonty> bddebian: can you check out #2987 for me please?
<bddebian> bmonty: Will do but I am trying to build lyx again so it might be a bit :-(
<bmonty> bddebian: I need to figure out how to get the pbuilder to use ccache
<bmonty> it significantly speeds up package rebuilds, especially when you aren't messing with the source code
<bddebian> aye
<dholbach> do we need this from apt-get.org: Description: gay.com-related plugins for gaim? :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: of course
<Lathiat> dholbach: yes! now!
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> :)
<Lathiat> wtf is it?
<dholbach> no idea
<dholbach> this is the first time, i'd love to have a webcam
<dholbach> this place is awesome
<dholbach> so many pretty girls around me
* dholbach is at a cafe
<bddebian> Pictures?
<dholbach> i guess it's too dark for my mobile camera
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> but i sat near a turkish kubuntu guy some minutes ago
<dholbach> and a guy with a mac showcasing music apps
<dholbach> that was COOL
<dholbach> for dapper i'll package each and every music app i can find
<bddebian> bmonty: lyx  can't find forms.h ?
* vrln votes for bmpx
<bmonty> bddebian: never saw that error
<bddebian> bmonty: zapping in uploading
<bddebian> s/in/is/
<bmonty> thanks
<\sh> *yawn
<\sh> *
<\sh> morning
<\sh> or better evening all
<bmonty> hi \sh
<\sh> bmonty: hey...
<\sh> bmonty: I pinged you this afternoon..the things on the universeFTBFS do u need a sponsor?
<TMM> ajmitch, are you here? if you are, could you, if you have the time, look at my latest upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=746 I think I got everything now :) including AMD64 build support (whoops) :)
<bmonty> \sh: no, bddebian has been kindly uploading those packages for me, thanks though
<\sh> bmonty: ok :) was not sure :)
<dholbach> TMM: unlikely, he lives in NZ, so i guess he's fast asleep
<bmonty> I think the xemacs21 package just needs a rebuild though I can't figure out the right installation order to test the install :(
<TMM> dholbach, ow yeah, sometimes I forget that not everyone has such an 'interesting' day/night rhythm like me :)
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> where are you from?
<TMM> netherlands
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> TMM: are you involved in the nl-team?
* sivang comes back
<TMM> I hang around in their IRC channel :)
<dholbach> like seveas and treenaks are?
<dholbach> oh cool that's a start
<dholbach> where in .nl do you live?
<TMM> 30km from amsterdam
<TMM> give or take
<dholbach> cool
<Treenaks> TMM: hey, me too :)
<Treenaks> TMM: you're not in Alphen too, are you? :)
<TMM> Treenaks, no :) uitgeest
<dholbach> my sister wanted to move to .nl (before she hit vienna), so i'd have known some cities (from the name)
<Treenaks> dholbach: get her over here ;)
<TMM> Treenaks, nick alert, ey? :)
<tseng> uh oh
<TMM> Treenaks, are you THAT desperate? :P
<dholbach> she learnt dutch
<Treenaks> TMM: ja :)
<\sh> bah...
<tseng> she is too nice for you lo
<tseng> t
<\sh> she should lern python...
<TMM> Treenaks, you are? :P geez, I'd never admit that in a public IRC channel ;)
<dholbach> \sh: you dont seem to know her
<Treenaks> TMM: a logged one, even
<Treenaks> dholbach: oh, she already knows python? :)
<TMM> Treenaks, o dear...
<\sh> dholbach: no..but from the pictures...well..I would like to
<dholbach> TMM: i like Treenaks for being honest :)
<TMM> ghehhee
<Treenaks> (log readers: note I did not say a thing..)
<dholbach> \sh: judging from the pictures you should know that she won't start on python,, she uses ubuntu though
<TMM> (log readers: note that 'ja' means 'yes')
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> you guys are SO funny
<dholbach> it's good to be here :)
<\sh> dholbach: well...I just learned that most GFs of ubuntu devs are doing translating jobs ;) so this is ok ;)
<Treenaks> TMM: that was re: nick alert
<TMM> [18:50]  TMM Treenaks, are you THAT desperate? :P [18:50]  Treenaks TMM: ja :) <--- note the 'ja'
<dholbach> \sh: SHE'S MY SISTER!!!
<dholbach> \sh: NOT MY GIRLFRIEND
<dholbach> ARG :)
<TMM> Treenaks, yeah, that would be plausable, and mighty damn convenient... doesn't it?
<\sh> dholbach: so...
<sivang> dholbach:  :)
<\sh> dholbach: I said I will visit vienna ;)
<sivang> dholbach: is she coming to UBZ ;-)
<sivang> ?
<dholbach> sivang: no
<Treenaks> go sivang ;)
<\sh> dholbach: *rotfl*
<tseng> :/
<TMM> dholbach, if you have to explain THAT loudly, something is wrong... really dude... get help
<dholbach> no guys... she has a life
<dholbach> i'm sorry for you all :)
<\sh> dholbach: 1. rule: never post pictures of nice sisters of you on blogs ;)
<tseng> you guys are awful
<dholbach> TMM: you should get help concerning your LOUDLY WRITTEN nickname :)
<sivang> LOL
<TMM> dholbach, it's an abbreviation
<sivang> dholbach: you know I was kidding right?
<dholbach> TMM: i thought so...
<dholbach> sivang: yes :)
<Treenaks> sivang: you weren't.. admit it ;)
<\sh> dholbach: 2. rule: if you do so, think that in your universe there are desperate people
<sivang> Treenaks: well, if to judge by Daniel's looks, I bet she's good looking as well :)
<TMM> dholbach, of the nick I had since I was about 10 :) its a bit embarresing to use it fully, but I like it because I've had it so long :)
* sivang runs
<Treenaks> sivang: well, we might be able to see if he put up _larger_ pics on his blog
<sivang> oh, I'll go read his blog now
<dholbach> sivang: merci :)
<\sh> lol....so funny
<Treenaks> sivang: it's on planet ;)
<TMM> what *is* dholbach's blog's url then? :)
<\sh> just listening to "Survivor - Burning Heart"
<Treenaks> TMM: planet.ubuntu.com :)
<dholbach> TMM: if i hit amsterdam, you will tell me story, i hope :)
<TMM> dholbach, are you going to amsterdam?
<Treenaks> dholbach: don't forget to bring your sister ;)
* sivang hugs dholbach , and hopes he knows we all love him
<dholbach> TMM: i always wanted to visit it again... i have no date yet
<Lathiat> hrm synce is b0rked and theres some new stuff in debian
<Lathiat> might look at syncing that tomorrow
<dholbach> TMM: i was 11 or 12 when i saw it last and was amazed by all the red-light district, but that's all i remember :)
<\sh> fixing hwinfo
<TMM> dholbach, let me know, I'll come and show you around
<TMM> dholbach, I'm sure Treenaks will join me :)
<sivang> dholbach: let's go there together
<dholbach> TMM: so i guess i should go there again and see how amsterdam really is
<Treenaks> TMM: well, maybe :)
<Treenaks> TMM: I'm scared now
<dholbach> tmm,treenaks: cool
<TMM> anyway, got to run
<TMM> bbl
<sivang> Treenaks: hmm, the images are unresizeable :-(
<TMM> and someone, advocate my app :P
<TMM> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=746
<Treenaks> sivang: yeah, that's why he should post larger ones
* TMM runs leaving a huge plug behind
<TMM> and no, not an anal plug you dirty bastards
<TMM> :P
<\sh> not?
<tseng> uh
<dholbach> it'S getting cold now
<dholbach> see you later... going home
<bmonty> \sh: did you already fix xemacs21?
* Lathiat -> sleep
<dholbach> see you
<sivang> dholbach: laterz
<bmonty> bye dholbach
<\sh> bmonty: yepp
<bmonty> \sh: ok, wikis are such imperfect tools for these kinds of projects
<slomo> re
<\sh> bmonty: all on universeftbfs which has a "OK" is fixed or synced or sync requested by elmo (regarding my stuff)
<bmonty> \sh: I saw that...I just have to read the page more closely :)
<\sh> bmonty: yeah..I was bored this morning.. so I fixed some stuff and drink some beer
<slomo> bmonty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=684
<bmonty> slomo: hmm...I merged in the new upstream version and I got the package version wrong.  ajmitch already uploaded it though.
<bmonty> I thought he said he had nuked it from REVU
<Seveas> <bmonty> \sh: did you already fix xemacs21? <-- the only way to fix that is dpkg -P emacs21; alias emacs=vim
<slomo> bmonty: ok... archived
<sivang> I'm out people, see you at home
<bmonty> by sivang
<bmonty> bye
<sivang> bye bmonty , please ping me when you know anythign about the TB meeting
<bmonty> Seveas: it was on the FTBFS list
<bmonty> sivang: I'll let you know if I hear anything
<sivang> thanks :)
* bmonty isn't holding his breath though
<sivang> sure
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> anyone familiar with hwinfo?
<azeem> the SuSE guys
<\sh> that looks like them
<\sh> generating .h files the wrong way during build time
<bmonty> well guess I should go take care of the list of projects my wife gave me this morning....
<bmonty> later guys...
<sivang> hmm, actrually one more thing before I go
<Lathiat> anyway
<Lathiat> wrong window
<sivang> \sh: maybe we can continue here , since I Want to ask about gcc version in Ubuntu
<sivang> in /usr/bin I have only gcc 3.3 and 4, is that normal for a breezy dist-upgrade ?
<azeem> 4.0 or 3.4?
<sivang> e.g., two "real" binaries: gcc-3.3, and gcc-4.0
<\sh> no 3.3 and 4
<slomo> sivang: 3.3 was hoary and it will not be removed... 4.0 is the new standard one
<sivang> slomo: ah ok
<\sh>  3% [>                                                  ]  24,320         1.39K/s    ETA 33:41
<\sh> wow
<tseng> push the turbo button
<\sh> well I need to get new sources for hwinfo
<\sh> and then this
<\sh> this is suse annoying
<sivang> slomo: ok, so how can I get 3.4 ?
<slomo> sivang: apt-get install gcc-3.4
<sivang> \sh: why do you need new sources for hwinfo form suse?
<sivang> slomo: k, thanks
<\sh> sivang: because the old one is not building because of crappy sourcecode generation during compile time
<\sh> this annoys me really...and now mirror server for the source rpms
<sivang> \sh: the old one from debian/ubuntu ? or is this not for ubuntu ?
<\sh> sivang: the old one
<janimo> ping markuman
<\sh> re dholbach
<dholbach> re
<\sh> this really annoys me...
<dholbach> what's going wrong?
<\sh> read planet
<\sh> trying to fetch the source rpm of hwinfo from opensuse
<markuman> janimo: pong
<slomo> does someone know who "Andreas Mussgiller <muszilla@users.sourceforge.net>" is?
<janimo> markuman, did ivoks upload your package touniverse?
<janimo> so I know I don't have to
<markuman> janimo: hm i dont know :-/
<janimo> you said something about him and the NEW queue :)
<janimo> I see he reviewed it
<markuman> yes, and than he upload it again to review
<janimo> well no hurry, I'll ask him tomorrow, it's no hurry,
<markuman> i think
<janimo> only to REVU?
<markuman> ok
<markuman> im not sure, but i think so
<janimo> ok
<dholbach> brb
<infinity> Whoever's been doing zapping uploads, you guys may want to sync with 0.9.6 from Debian, which actually builds on amd64.
* infinity curses having typed that right before dholbach wandered in...
<infinity> dholbach:
<infinity> Whoever's been doing zapping uploads, you guys may want to sync with 0.9.6 from Debian, which actually builds on amd64.
<infinity> Pass along the word. :)
<dholbach> GUYS: ^^^  <--- hear what almighty adam has too say
<\sh> lol
<\sh> comes in, goes out
<\sh> and now...apt-get install rpm
<\sh> and fiddle around with source rpms :(
<dholbach> after reading the manpage of rpm for a minute, i used midnight commander ;-p
<tseng> installing rpm on debian is weird
<tseng> it goes like "YOU ARE A TOOL PLEASE USE ALIEN"
<\sh> well...I'm an old redhat fart...so rpm -ivh is my friend
<\sh> and it installs magically in /usr/src/rpm/SOURCES ,-)
<tseng> i hate that
<\sh> tseng: yeah...me too...but this is why I'm using a chroot now
<\sh> biggest problem the source doesn't want to compile...so I have to check the spec
<Kyral> Okay...NOW my package is ready to be tidied up and submitted to review, 'cause I know that it works :D
<Kyral> after I play HALO
<slomo> hub: enblend is uploaded :) be happy ;)
<LaserJock> hi all! azeem are you awake? ;-)
<keyes> hello
<keyes> Meeting about the creation of a PLF repository for Ubuntu (for litigious package like w32codecs and real) start now at #plf
<dholbach> somebody from the common-lisp-team here?
<dholbach> keyes: plf?
<keyes> http://plf.zarb.org
<keyes> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=386651
<dholbach> hrm
<slomo> hmmm
<tseng> hmz
<dholbach> i'm fascistic and ignorant to such a high degree, that i'd rather not use that stuff :)
<\sh> not again
<keyes> it's a french based repository and it's legal in France
<dholbach> keyes: if you "have to do this", make sure you talk to the community council about this
<dholbach> keyes: and ask how much distance the ubuntu project has to have to "plf"
<keyes> PLF exist already for Mandriva
<dholbach> i'm not sure, if the word "inofficial" (or whatever) is enough there
<keyes> and is fully UN-supported by Mandriva
<dholbach> keyes: you should have everybody's awareness on the topic
<TMM> yo
<TMM> back :)
<slomo> keyes: how can something like w32codecs be legal in france? i doubt it
<dholbach> keyes: and the CC are the right guys
<\sh> hmmm...I should rent a root server on an island somewhere far away, without rights and laws and then I can distribute this stuff
<dholbach> keyes: i surely don't want to drain your enthusiasm, really, i appreciate it, but i'd rather talk to the people involved before starting it
<\sh> and it would be better, if the people are going away from those w32codec stuff and using open standards stuff...
<ivoks> hello
<janimo> hey ivoks
* ivoks is wondering...
<ivoks> who's name was in zapping changelog? :)
<tseng> bmonty:
<janimo> ivoks, did you by any chance, upload xfce4-taskmanager?
<janimo> thanks for REVuing it btw :)
<ivoks> janimo: i did, but i didn't show up in -changes
<ivoks> s/i/it
<janimo> ok thanks, that means it is waiting for elmo
<ivoks> janimo: i hope so
<ivoks> \sh: what's with hwinfo?
<\sh> ivoks: version in ubuntu/debian has build errors, coming from a wrong include file, which is created during compiletime
<\sh> ivoks: and new version from suse doesn't work either, cause we don't have a special kernel patch
<\sh> ivoks: so something for dapper
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ivoks> \sh: i see you had problems with jabberd2
<ivoks> \sh: it runs for me without problems for months
<ivoks> \sh: true, without mysql...
<\sh> ivoks: are u using transports with utf-8 stuff?
<\sh> mysql was only a bloody stoopid mistake by me
<ivoks> i don't use transports at all
<\sh> ivoks: yeah...that's why it's running without problems
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ivoks: but when u r using transports, c2s will fck around because of some strange utf8 problems
<\sh> ivoks: I solved this problem with using now ejabberd
<ivoks> \sh: i saw
<\sh> ivoks: not even one problem since I installed it
<ivoks> well, i'll leave jabberd2 on this machine
<ivoks> other setups will be ejabberd
<\sh> ivoks: I'll bring a new version of ejabberd and jabberd2 for dapper
<\sh> and trying to get ejabberd to main
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> so I have to learn erlang language :)
<ajmitch> morning
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<ivoks> evening
<dholbach> morning andrew
<ajmitch> what fun have I missed?
<ajmitch> \sh fixed universe?
<ivoks> not much
<\sh> ajmitch: sure just finished
<\sh> hehe
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> so we can all have a party! ;)
<\sh> only 78937572137 packages left ;)
* ivoks is considering starting "server" project
<\sh> + hwinfo ;)
<ivoks> \sh:  78937572136 :)
<\sh> ivoks: well...;)
<ivoks> bye
<ajmitch> \sh: what's with your latest blog entry? :)
<\sh> ajmitch: bah...first I waited one hour for the new source rpm of hwinfo from opensuse
<\sh> ajmitch: and then it failed to build, because they're using a strange kernel patch
<ajmitch> ouch :)
<\sh> ajmitch: but this bandwidth is really annoying and I didn't find any cvs repos or something for their source
<ajmitch> it'd probably be even slower :)
<\sh> damn
<\sh> I have to bring a new upstream into universe (fbdesk) :(
<dholbach> if that makes it work
<dholbach> builds? works?
<\sh> yes
<dholbach> no debian version we could rely on?
<\sh> no...1.1.5 is the same as in debian
<dholbach> ok
<\sh> 1.2.1 works and builds
<\sh> just uploaded
<dholbach> rock
<\sh> I hope it builds as well on amd64/ppc
<\sh> now for grace
<\sh> ok...last beer
<siretart> hi folks
<slomo> \sh: prost :)
<siretart> for relaxing. somebody remembering zelda? http://aaa.opus-hosting.com/perso_TomBoss/stuff4.wmv *g*
<\sh> zelda? the gameboy game?
<\sh> slomo: skal :)
<siretart> \sh: on the piano! :)
<\sh> siretart: I thought u meant zelda the game ;)
<siretart> \sh: it is. soundtrack played on the piano!
<\sh> ah
* \sh had the game on the gameboy colour ;)
* slomo played it on the snes ;)
<dholbach> slomo: that's somebody who learned to play piano properly... *envy*
<\sh> a little bit to fast I think
* siretart played it on nes, snes, gb and n64 (and half way on gamecube) *g*
<\sh> dholbach: you should listen to my son :)
* dholbach 's piano teacher painted little pigs into the book (for my bad technique)
<dholbach> the stupid books were FULL of pigs
<dholbach> i didnt like her...
<\sh> hahaha
* sivang opens again the webpage for UniverseFTBS
<\sh> I learned organ instead of a piano...it was more fun using hands and feet to play music :)
<\sh> checking for X11/xpm.h... yes
<\sh> checking for a Motif >= 1002 compatible API... no
<\sh> BAH
<\sh> and lestiff2-dev is build-dep
<\sh> what the heck
<\sh> lets tryit with libmotif
<dholbach> slomo: in the middle it sounds a bit like richard clayderman
<dholbach> :-p
<sivang> dholbach: all of the packages in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 are FTBS and need love?
<\sh> siretart: check UniverseFTBFS first (there are packages already done)
<\sh> sorry sivang I mean
<\sh> not siretart
<slomo> dholbach: wait for me to download it :P my connection isn't that fastest ;)
<dholbach> sivang: you should inspect people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test and people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test before (if they built after that)
<dholbach> slomo: oh... who proposed that file? wasnt that you?
<slomo> dholbach: siretart =)
* dholbach closed the window afterwards
<dholbach> ah right
<dholbach> siretart: ^^
<dholbach> :)
<siretart> :)
* dholbach is sure siretart listened to the richard clayderman LPs of his parents as a kid :)
<\sh> siretart: you are playing this?
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> boah, of course not
<dholbach> hehe :)
<siretart> years ago, I played keyboard, but never piano. But I'm deeply impressed
<\sh> well...many software devs are playing piano, organ or keyboard or something similar
<siretart> funny
* dholbach always wanted to play drums
<siretart> coding is similar to playing music? never thought about that..
<\sh> and windows devs are playing flute
<siretart> lol
<slomo> siretart: hehe... /me played keyboard too some years ago ;)
<dholbach> we'll start a BAND!
<\sh> siretart: it is somehow..it's all logic
<dholbach> i! can! see! the! light! :)
<sivang> dholbach: I play guitar
<sivang> ;)
<siretart> dholbach: Yeah, like the band with rocks in! (terry pratchet, soul music)
<\sh> THE BAND !
* dholbach shamelessly quotes a movie :)
<\sh> Blues Brothers
<dholbach> :))
<dholbach> and he play yann tiersen
<dholbach> that's nice...
<slomo> sivang: /me too... but these two are the only instruments ;)
<dholbach> ok i play the drums, sivang the guitar
<dholbach> we're nearly there
<\sh> keyboard here or piano ;)
<\sh> or hamond organ
<slomo> siretart: terry pratchett? band? enlighten me ;)
<\sh> yeah..a hamond
<dholbach> and i think we have quite some singers (after the last debconf...) ;)
<\sh> oh no...I can't sing
<\sh> I can "groehl"
<sivang> well, I can also do some base :)
<\sh> but not singing
<siretart> slomo: in his book (and comic movie, btw) there is a band called 'the band with rocks in', rocking all of the discworld!
<slomo> \sh: after some beers you can ;)
<\sh> slomo: that's what I meant with "groehlen"
* ajmitch wants some dwarf bread
<siretart> ajmitch: what do you want to hit with that weapon? ;)
<ajmitch> sharks
<siretart> sharks?
<ajmitch> sure
* siretart giggles :)
<slomo> siretart: comic movie by pratchet? hmm... i must read this book and watch this film ;) i already read some books by him but none with a band :P
* dholbach removes the ALT-F4 combination from his keyboard
<\sh> slomo: there are a lot of discworld books
<\sh> slomo: ogra has a lot :
<\sh> )
<\sh> but sadly only in german :(
<ajmitch> aww
<slomo> slomo: yes i know ;) i only have 4 atm :( i need more ;)
<slomo> \sh: even...
<slomo> lol
* ajmitch only has a few of them
* \sh has only rincewind :(
<dholbach> slomo: ask mvo, he's the terry pratchett man
<\sh> damnit what is it?
<dholbach> slomo: mvo is only waiting for the "who wants to be a millionaire"-terry-pratchett-edition :)
<\sh> I give up for tonight
<slomo> \sh: what's up?
<slomo> dholbach: oh that would be a reason to watch tv again ;)
<mvo> dholbach: haha
* mvo loves terry pratchett
<\sh> slomo: grace
<siretart> hi Fuddl ;)
<slomo> \sh: the one with the motif configure breakage?
<\sh> slomo: yes
<\sh> slomo: I don't see the tree because there is a forrest somehow in front of my eyes
<slomo> \sh: oh no... motif should be forbidden ;)
<slomo> \sh: shall i take a look at it? or will you do tomorrow?
<Fuddl> hi there
<\sh> slomo: u can do it if you want...it uses lestiff2 anyways because of xmhtml1-dev
<\sh> holla die waldfee
<slomo> hi sebest__ :)
<\sh> I just made a technorati jump of 75000 ranks
<bddebian> slomo: You can merge grace6 from Debian too if you fix it ;-P
<slomo> \sh: woah...
<slomo> bddebian: ok... thanks =)
<\sh> bddebian: the new version of grace?
<\sh> bddebian: i tried as well the new one of debian of grace..same problem different version ;)
<slomo> \sh: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/grace6.html
<slomo> different sourcepackage
<\sh> slomo: ah
<\sh> slomo: but there is as well a new release of grace for debian...
<slomo> bddebian: grace6 is already the newest?
<slomo> \sh: yes, i already saw it
<bddebian> slomo: Oh, it used to be on the MoM list.  Maybe someone did it?
<slomo> \sh:    -> Trying libxpm4-dev
<slomo>        -> Cannot install libxpm4-dev; apt errors follow:
<slomo> bddebian: yes, someone did already ;)
<slomo> this someone was you :P
<\sh> slomo: libxpm-dev <- 1st change ;)
<bddebian> Oh, hehe, maybe it was something else I was thinking of
<slomo> \sh: ok, thanks... the new debian version has an important change ;)
<slomo> \sh: it conflicts with the grace6 package
<\sh> slomo: you see...I don't have any clue what grace is, honestly...and my concern is that it builds, installs and works ;)
<\sh> slomo: if it's grace or grace jones...I don't mind ;)
<\sh> actually...grace jones and a slave to her rhythm ..
<sivang> lololol
<slomo> \sh: i don't know either what this is ;)
<\sh> slomo: what? you don't know grace jones?
<slomo> \sh: that package :P
<\sh> slomo: oh ;) but grace jones -> http://www.jamaicanpride.com/Celebrities/grace_jones.htm
<siretart> slomo: did you notice that there are some old mplayer-amd64 packages lying around in the archive and confusing users?
<slomo> siretart: yes
<slomo> i told elmo 1000000 times to remove this crap
<slomo> along with some other stuff
<slomo> and nothing happens
<siretart> Fuddl: did you listen?
<sebest__> hi slomo :)
<Fuddl> siretart: eh... sorry, didn't. *reading backlog*
<bddebian> slomo: Aye, he's not good with morgues ;-)
<Fuddl> ah, so it's not only my opinion, that mplayer-amd64 is out of date and confusing amd64-users
<\sh> bddebian: we need to get a list of stuff to be morgued before release...
<siretart> no, rather known issue waiting for elmo (ftpmaster)
<sivang> anybod know if 3ddesktop is fixed?
<sivang> I see it's failed on lamont's buidl logs
<sivang> ah, i386 succeded.
<sivang> next
<dholbach> Riddell: did you do any progress on the kde rpath amd64 trail?
<sivang> hmm, many of the ftbs are non i386 :-(
<sivang> oh I found some :)
<sivang> dholbach: am using http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/byDate/today.html , is it ok?
<dholbach> i'd rather check both Test/ and the normal one (there you can browse when they biult the last time and which version)
<sivang> dholbach: that's pretty tedious trying to find the ones that failed,
<sivang> dholbach: don't you have some kind of a script to pick only the red ones? :)
<dholbach> do some better lists :)
<sivang> hmm, how were the list ion the FTBS wiki pages created?
<dholbach> that's a loooooooooong story
<dholbach> part of it is on UniverseFTBFS
<sivang> well, I think I'm lost
<str8edge> h!
<str8edge> hi!
<lifeless> I have a question from a friend, do we expect oprofile to work out of the box ? I know its universe, but :)
<sivang> I never tried running it, but I saw it required a kernel module
<lifeless> right.
<sivang> which suggests some issues , AFAICT
<lifeless> the module installs AIUI. Let me drag my friend over
<str8edge> does anyone know which package enables the debian menu in ubuntu?
<dholbach> "menu"
<sivang> lifeless: just please tell me, what is AIUI ?
<lifeless> sivang: 'as I understand it'
<lifeless> wBryce: thanks. I was heading into the info-brokering haze of 7:20 am before coffee
<lifeless> sivang: wBryce here is trying to use oprofile, and it seems to install and start ok, but further things are wonky ...
<lifeless> wBryce: over to you
<str8edge> dholbach: would it be reasonable to file a wishlist type bug against menu? I really think is should say "Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu Universe" instead of "debian".
<wBryce> It works but it's not allowing me to add extra events. Or change the events.
<dholbach> str8edge: hmhmhmhmhm, maybe
<sivang> wBryce: what does adding/changing events require? do you have knowledge of what underlying operatoins it tries to do?
<wBryce> Is it supposed to work in breezy? With the default kernet etc.
<wBryce> sivang: It will need to talk to it's kernel module.
<str8edge> dholbach: its a couple of lines to change, and an icon.
<wBryce> Adding events means changing the CPU's performance monitoring registers.
<lifeless> wBryce: its a universe package which means 'best effort, no warranty' .. and the guys here like sivang will often do heroic things and make that 'best effort' real.
<str8edge> I could spend some time tonight and include the diff
<sivang> wBryce: maybe running it as root helps?
<str8edge> in the bug report that is.
<dholbach> i'm off to bed guys
<\sh> wBryce: do u see the kernel module in lib/modules/*?
<wBryce> So, adding things like senondary cache misses to be monitored or instructions completed (vs clocks)
<wBryce> The kernel module is loaded. (lsmod | grep oprofile shows it).
<sivang> wBryce: did you use apt-get install to get it?
<sivang> I mean, or compiled from source?
<wBryce> sivang: I used synaptic, so apt-get indirectly.
<sivang> wBryce: cool , I'm trying this as well
<slomo> lol... "As a former philosophy major, it disturbs me to think that things disappear when no one is looking at them, but that's exactly what happens in Python. In general, you can simply forget about memory management and let Python clean up after you."
<\sh> wBryce: can u do me a favor and try the debian version?
<wBryce> I'm OK with needing to build my own kernel and install from source.
<\sh> 0.9.1-4 ;)
<sivang> wBryce: I have the pkg installed, now what shoudl I do in order to see your bug?
<\sh> wBryce: no...only the source package from debian ;)
<\sh> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/oprofile
<sivang> \sh: I can try that for him
<\sh> sivang: ok
<sivang> \sh: what do you say?
<wBryce> \sh: I'll repro for sivang first
<sivang> wBryce: yes, now what shoudl I do ? (I habe it installed)
<wBryce> As root
<wBryce> opcontrol --start
<sivang> ok, I need to give it vmlinux, sec
<wBryce> opcontrol --dump
<wBryce> add  --no-linux
<sivang> k, another sec
<wBryce> In another window run opreport |less
<\sh> I'm compiling the debian version now an dtest
<wBryce> That will show you what it's reporting.
<sivang> \sh: cool
<\sh> I have to go to bed but anyways...
<wBryce> run as root: opcontrol --event=RETIRED_OPS:100000
<sivang> \sh: I can continue with this, if you hint me enough :)
<wBryce> That will add retired ops.
<wBryce> then opcontrol --reset
<wBryce> opcontrol --dump
<sivang> wBryce: seems opcontrol won't accept --no-linux
<wBryce> The last two just clear out old profiling info.
<wBryce> sorry it's --no-vmlinux. I answered from memory, not the man page.
<sivang> wBryce: yes, just noticed it :)
<sivang> wBryce: ok, profiling is running
<sivang> wBryce: no --dump?
<wBryce> Then run opreport again.
<sivang> s/no/now/
<wBryce> opcontrol --dump works here.
<sivang> wBryce: should I do --dump now? (before oreport)
<wBryce> sivang: Yes, it's not really needed, but will help.
<sivang> wBryce: ok, I've reached the point of opreport | less in anothe window
<wBryce> If you don't then there may be new good samples there that haven't been flushed to disk.
<sivang> wBryce: ok, I will now do --reset
<sivang> it singalled the daemon, and done
<\sh> root@shermann-laptop:~ # opcontrol --event=RETIRED_OPS:100000
<\sh> You cannot specify any performance counter events
<\sh> because OProfile is in timer mode.
<\sh> do i have to stop it first?
<wBryce> \sh: That means your kernel doesn't have the support modules.
<\sh> root@shermann-laptop:~ # lsmod|grep op
<\sh> oprofile               28288  1
<wBryce> Don't know the exact details, I asked on #oprofile first.
<wBryce> So it's running in timer only mode.
<sivang> wBryce: the FAQ says something on support modules, we need to check
<sivang> wBryce: what does timer only mode means?
<wBryce> It means it doesn't have kernel support to get at the performance counters on the CPU.
<ajmitch> there won't be any more kernel changes for breezy, obviously :)
<\sh> wBryce: when the modules are kernel based, and they're not build by our kernel...
<sivang> maybe this should go as a uninverse candidate ?
<ajmitch> what kernel are you using? -686?
<wBryce> I'm running a breezy kernel. They seem to be there.
<wBryce> kernel Linux version 2.6.12-9-386 (buildd@rothera)
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> -686 might have the support since it's cpu specific?
<ajmitch> iirc the performance counter registers were added with the pentium
<sivang> wBryce: what
<wBryce> But I'm running an amd64.
<\sh> wBryce: but running a i386 kernel?
<ajmitch> and amd64 with a 32bit install?
<sivang> ajmitch: what do I do to see the kernel modules loaded? I grepped for "oprofile" but nothing
<wBryce> opcontrol -l shows the correct counters for an amd 64.
<wBryce> bryce@gridpoint:~$ lsmod | grep oprofile
<wBryce> oprofile               28288  1
<ajmitch> wBryce: but the kernel support _may_ nto be there for the 386 kernel?
<sivang> root@bluespace:/home/pooh # opcontrol -l
<sivang> Using timer interrupt.
* ajmitch hasn't used oprofile so can't tell
<wBryce> ajmitch: But it can read the counters correctly for AMD 64. Which is different to the counters for AMD 32 and any Intel.
<sivang> I don't have that kernel module
<sivang> weird
<ajmitch> right
<wBryce> My install is very clean at this point. It's only a few days old.
<Kyral> hmmm
<sivang> ajmitch: you got the kernel module? I'm using  2.6.12-9-686
<Kyral> I think I need to clean up my program
<Kyral> is there a template for a manpage?
<\sh> ajmitch: btw...can u mail/ping/ask elmo for a sync of oprofile 0.9.1-4 from debian...it builds clean and runs
<sivang> Kyral: btw, what is it able to save at this point ?
<sivang> \sh: isn't that the case for the ubuntu version ? isn't the problem that we miss the kernel module or something ?
<Kyral> Package Selections, XOrg.Conf/XF86Config, fstab, network/interfaces, and the sources.list
<wBryce> \sh: How do I do a source debian install? (I've only got another 30 min tonight).
<wBryce> Only if it would help you diagnose.
<\sh> wBryce: well...at least you need a chroot or pbuilder or something...
<\sh> wBryce: but it's only a new debian revision...so I think there is no source change
<Kyral> does the ">" operator in bash scripting append or just completly wipe out and replace whatever its directing output to?
<\sh> Kyral: > overwrites
<\sh> Kyral: >> appends
<Kyral> okay///
<Kyral> just makin' sure
<wBryce> I solved my original problem. So there's no short term urgency for it from me.
<Kyral> Now how do I make a damn manpage?
<\sh> wBryce: but I can send you 386 packages via mail or something for the debian version to test...you need to install them by hand with sudo dpkg -i *.deb
<sivang> wBryce: how did you solve it ?
<sivang> \sh: do you know then what is the problem with that package?
<\sh> sivang: I think it's more a kernel issue with some modules and cpu archs
<wBryce> the straight clocks timer was enough. The original problem was finding out why compiled Squeak code was sometimes 10x slower than interpreted.
<Kyral> anyway sivang I'll wipe out the .ex files I don't need in debian and clean up rules then upload it to REVU so you can take a look at it
<wBryce> \sh: A kernel/versioning problem sounds right to me. (I'm NOT an oprofile dev though).
* sivang learend about 10 news things today, thank you wBryce 
<sivang> Kyral: cool
<sivang> actually, this last 30 miutes or so
<Kyral> I *think* I can knock out the docs dir, but what is the "dirs" file for
<\sh> wBryce: well...not a versioning problem..it's more an arch problem as I understand ajmitch correctly...i386 doesn't have all and from i586 on it should support some things more
<sivang> nice to know such implementation of Smalltalk exist
<\sh> sivang: you learn new things every day lurking around here, or doing some packaging work...you will learn, what is good code, what are quick hacks and even which is crappy sourcecode ;)
<sivang> \sh: I wish I had all day lurking around here :)
<sivang> \sh: so, lets see if I understodo corectly. Our current i686 kernle doesn't have the required modules, so how you sending him the debian pkgs might help?
<\sh> sivang: ah...and you will learn how to smoke 40gram of tobacco in < 1 day and drink more then 10 bottles of koelsch in < 1 day ;)
<sivang> lol
<\sh> sivang: i'm using 386 standard kernel
<sivang> \sh: well, I don't smoke so that's and regarding drinking, I told you already I am not a big drinker :)
<\sh> sivang: and there are some differences with i686 kernels or amd/amd64 kernels
<sivang> \sh: and you got the modules?
<\sh> sivang: no
<\sh> at least only one...this oprofile
<\sh> sivang: and they're in the kernel packages
<\sh> not coming from oprofile itself
<sivang> \sh: I don't even have that one
<\sh> lsmod|grep oprofile
<sivang> ah, I now have
<sivang> darn
<sivang> must be me making spellig mistakes in grep again
<\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-k7-smp/kernel/arch/i386/oprofile/oprofile.ko
<\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-k7/kernel/arch/i386/oprofile/oprofile.ko
<\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-686-smp/kernel/arch/i386/oprofile/oprofile.ko
<\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-686/kernel/arch/i386/oprofile/oprofile.ko
<\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-386/kernel/arch/i386/oprofile/oprofile.ko
<\sh> all there ;)
<sivang> uh ha
<sivang> ok, thanks for the clarification
<wBryce> \sh: So if I try a differnent kernel you suspect it might work?
<\sh> wBryce: hmmm...if you have an amd64 you should use an amd64 kernel...
<\sh> if there is one ;)
<\sh> wBryce: honestly I don't know...I never used this package
<wBryce> \sh: Well, that doesn't work for two reasons. First I'd need to get ndiswrappers working to get network access. Second, running that kernel Squeak crashes and I don't want to upgrade VMs until I've fixed a few more bugs. (One's fixed today thanks to oprofile).
<\sh> wBryce: but you could join #ubuntu-kernel and ask there, all our kernel gurus are waiting there :)
<\sh> ok...I have only 5 hours left to sleep....:(
<wBryce> I'm counting minutes not hours now.
<wBryce> So should oprofile work in breezy?
<\sh> wBryce: it should
<ajmitch> \sh: it's not just a matter of whether the module is there, as it is how the module is compiled :)
<\sh> wBryce: the package is meant to work with 2.6. kernel in debian, so it should work here as well
<ajmitch> I wouldn't expect the -386 module to be using pentium instructions
<\sh> ajmitch: me neither :)
<\sh> ajmitch: so as I said, it's a kernel issue...not oprofiles issue
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-15
<tritium> hmm, this is not good.  I can't see a thing in X.  None of the windows refresh properly
<\sh> ajmitch: and from my kernel config I can see only that oprofile (kernel profiling) is compiled as module...
<\sh> anyways -EOFFTOBED
<\sh> good night folks :) cu tomorrow^Wlater this day *grmpf*
<sivang> \sh_away: good night
<Kyral> REVU upload in 3....2...1..or whenever this Prelink stops
<sivang> Kyral: nice, I'll try look at it tommorow, I think I'm oing to bed now. work tommorow and it's alrady past midnight :)
<Kyral> lol okay
<Kyral> I'm willing to bet there will be some technical error with the package
<wBryce> thanks, I'll probably play around with oprofile again later. Possibly in a few weeks/months.
<sivang> Kyral: I'm also working on some related specs, I'll ping you up when I have them ready for feedback :)
<sivang> wBryce: thank you for bringing this up, was very interesting
<wBryce> no problems. I'll be back next time. (even if I just compile my own kernel and oprofile version).
<sivang> wBryce: cool, btw - what's your relation to lifeless  ?
<sivang> ;-)
<tritium> ah, much better in the console :)
<wBryce> I know him from Dunedin.
<wBryce> From university.
<sivang> oh, you just saved me another google query :)
<sivang> night all, hitting bed
<wBryce> goodnight as well
<tritium> good night, sivang
<sivang> night tritium
<hub> hi
<ajmitch> hmm, another dunedin person then :)
<Kyral> hmm, the * wildcard is valid in a hosts.allow file right...
<hub> I got an upload that has been rejected because "Rejected: Unknown distribution `unstable'.
<hub> " shall I upload a new one to REVU?
<hub> with breezy instead?
<ajmitch> yes
<hub> new version or same version?
<Kyral> brb reboot
* hub should file a bug against debian-el to use the right distro names in Ubuntu :-)
<Kyral> and my crusade to completely restrict SSH access to my box to only the computer labs continues
<ajmitch> Kyral: iptables
<Kyral> I do
<Kyral> I also just edited my /etc/hosts.deny and hosts.allow to also deny access to things outside the labs IPBlock :D
<Kyral> deny has "ALL: ALL" and allow has "ALL: <TheIPBlock>"
<Kyral> but what takes precedence...
<Kyral> I basically want to set up IPTables and the hosts files to deny any incoming connection except SSH connections coming from the labs IPBlock...
<ajmitch> order is allow, deny
<Kyral> I actually meant if IPTables comes into effect first or if the hosts files do
<hub> ajmitch: so shall bump the version to change the distribution?
<ajmitch> iptables does, of course
<ajmitch> hub: no need
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> I wish there was an easy configurer for IPTables..
<hub> ajmitch: ok. thx. upload to REVU again then
<Burgundavia> Kyral, there is
<Burgundavia> Kyral, firestarter
<Kyral> psh, firestarter
* ajmitch would call vim a 'simple interface' for iptables :)
<Kyral> I just want something that helps me make rules and then puts them in iptables. Not something that sits on my system tray
<Kyral> and emacs > vim
<slomo> gn8 everybody
<slomo> Kyral: and emacs is definetly bigger than vim... (but not better ;P )
<Kyral> lookie what I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IptablesHowTo?highlight=%28IPTables%29
<azeem> LaserJock: am now
<LaserJock> oh, heah cool
<LaserJock> I joined the ghemical-devel list so I saw your latest emails
<azeem> ah
<LaserJock> I was looking at the ghemical source package and had a question
<LaserJock> It depends on mopac7 right?
<hub> how does it take to have a newly uploaded package to be valid on launchpad?
<azeem> ghemical itself doesn't anymore, libghemical can (it does on Ubuntu, bot not on Debian right now)
<hub> "Invalid source package name enblend"
<hub> but enblend has been uploaded now to the universe
<Kyral> okay stupid question. How do I save my current IPTables rules to enable on startup?
<LaserJock> azeem: ok but I see that ghemical has mopac as a dependency and I saw in the debian/rules it has --enable-mpqc
<LaserJock> azeem: so does it also need --enable-mopac7  also?
<ajmitch> hi azeem
<azeem> LaserJock: hrm, that --enable-mpqc is bogus
<azeem> LaserJock: if you run ./configure --help in the ghemical source, you will see that there is no such option (anymore)
<azeem> ajmitch: hi
<azeem> LaserJock: I forgot to remove it when libghemical arrived
<LaserJock> azeem: ok, I was wondering, becaus I understood that that stuff was moved to libghemical. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing somethin
<azeem> nah, thanks for pointing that out :)
<LaserJock> azeem: anything to help ;-) I'm not really a programmer, just an interested user
<LaserJock> I am trying to get some of the people in my department to move from Spartan to ghemical for a lot of our simple computational stuff
<hub> ajmitch: my package lost his "advocates" :-(
<azeem> LaserJock: cool
<azeem> LaserJock: I am doing more ab-initio stuff with very small molecules, so ghemical is of limited use to my work right now
<LaserJock> azeem: I use it a lot for setting up Gaussian calculations. Of most interest to me is being able to quickly create a molecule that has a geometry pretty close to the abinitio one
<LaserJock> azeem: is use the MM or PM3
<LaserJock> azeem: however, I think it has some potential for some of our teaching labs because it is significantly cheaper than Spartan ;-)
<azeem> heh :)
<azeem> are you using it as a virtualization tool as well?
<azeem> eh, visualization
<LaserJock> azeem: oh yeah. It is good for that
<Kyral> booyah
<Kyral> locked down my system ENTIRELY
<LaserJock> azeem: although I usually do a final version using something else
<azeem> LaserJock: I'm using molekel for that mostly, but it's non-free unfortunately, and not maintained anymore
<LaserJock> azeem: so far it is the package that is closest to my goal of just needing 1 program that takes care of all my computational needs
<LaserJock> but I am just a physical chemist and don't do much hard core theoretical stuff so maybe my needs aren't so much ;-)
<Kyral> yo Mez
<Mez> yo
<Kyral> sup
<Mez> not much
<Kyral> Backports slowing down as Breezy gets closer?
<tseng> hi Mez
<bddebian> Heya Mez
<bddebian> LaserJock: Are you still pushing poor azeem? :-)
<Kyral> hey bddebian mind looking at my dcbu package on REVU and explaining what the Linda error means?
<azeem> pushing?
<bddebian> azeem: Trying to get his mopac7 stuff working :-)
<azeem> but it's working in Ubuntu, no?
<azeem> I'm currently waiting on upstream to put it into Debian
<bddebian> Didn't sound like it.  I built it in but sounded like it had some bugs?
<bddebian> Kyral: I don't know for sure.  You could try 1.0-0ubuntu1 as a version?
<Kyral> bddebian, I think it may not like that I appended "~beta" to every version previous to this (look at the changelog)
<LaserJock> bddebian: sorry was away for a while. No, I'm being good to azeem ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: I was just kidding :-)
<LaserJock> do you guys know of anybody working on Scigraphica?
<Mez> lo
<hub> I don't find the page where they say were to upload the files
<hub> s/upload the files/announce the uploaded file to Debian/
<ajmitch> we don't generally announce the uploads, although you can inform the utnubu list if you wish
<hub> ajmitch: anounce to debian if they want to pick the package
<hub> I thought we did it at one point
<ajmitch> depends, do you want to maintain the package yourself in debian?
<hub> I'm not a Debian developer
<hub> so....
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> you can still maintain in debian if you have a sponsor
<hub> why not
<LaserJock> so... what happens once Breezy comes out? Is Universe totally frozen and all work is done for Dapper?
<ajmitch> yes
<Kyral> Does that mean we have to Dist-Upgrade to Dapper immediately?
<bddebian> Of course :-)
<tseng> does that mean its a good idea/
<tseng> nope.
<Kyral> can you gimme a month
<Kyral> I'd like to see what a stable OS looks like for a while ;P
<LaserJock> will it be ok to use a Dapper pbuilder environment to start with?
<Kyral> I should really get around making a pbuilder env
<Kyral> although I have no clue why I should
<LaserJock> for me just learning to do packaging, pbuilder rocks
<Kyral> well, I'm just learning too, and I don't understand why I can't just keep doing my work in a workspace dir in ~
<LaserJock> well, for me, I might have installed deps already and I won't catch that I miss putting somethin in the control file or something like that
<Kyral> I use a script I found in the DNMG
<LaserJock> what script?
<Kyral> uhh....
<Mez> pbuilder is useful for having an unstable environment, such as dapper, or what was breezy to build in while running a stable environemt for day to day use... it basically means if something breaks in dapper, it doesnt affect you, just you're pbuilder... and that usually just means you cant build a few things.
<Kyral> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html
<Kyral> its in there
<LaserJock> Mez: ohh, yeah that too ;-)
<Mez> :P
<Mez> Kyral, are you on about dh_make?
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> I'm learning via the New Maintainers Guide right now
<Mez> :)
<Mez> yeah, dh_make is good, but only for new packages
<Kyral> Yah I've found that out the hard way...
<Mez> :P
<Kyral> Actually has anyone fixed gDesklets yet?
<Kyral> I know it was on the FTBFS list...
<Mez> the DNMG is a good start, but theres no better tutor than experience... get a motu to check over packages or use REVU) and you'll get a load of help
<bddebian> Gotta switch machines, bbiab
<LaserJock> are the list of files for UniverseFTBFS and UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile created by hand?
<bmonty> evening MOTUs!
<TMM> hey all
<TMM> mind taking a look at something for me that is completely ubuntu unrelated? just because you are such nice guys :)
<TMM> http://braam.sytes.net/~hp/fullmoon.png <--- design for a website I need to do, I just finished it, and I wondered if it doesn't look all that aweful
<TMM> it's a tad offtopic, I know, I hope you can forgive me :)
<bmonty> TMM: looks neat to me
<TMM> bmonty, cool, thanks, then I think I'll just stick to this
<bmonty> TMM: only thing I would say is that it might take awhile to load on a slow connection
<LaserJock> hiya bddebian
<bmonty> gah, this FTBFS wiki is a *huge* PITA to update
<TMM> bmonty, I know... it won't scale very well either... I'm stuck with this though :(
<LaserJock> yeah, I was wondering how the FTBFS pages were created
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<bddebian> bmonty: Aye
<bmonty> hey bddebian
<bipolar> bddebian, is the libofx stuff fixed yet?
<bmonty> sweet, just got a call from my bro...time to play some Halo 2 :)
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> bipolar: Fixed?  What's wrong with it?
<\sh> re - moins
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<\sh> bah...less then 4h sleep
<bipolar> bddebian, file conflicts between libofx2 and libofx-dev
<\sh> bipolar: which version of the package?
<\sh> libofx_0.8.0-3ubuntu6.dsc
<bipolar> let me try again. maybe I had an old one...
<TMM> bmonty, thanks
<\sh> should be fixed
<bipolar> \sh, libofx? not libofx2?
<\sh> bipolar: libofx is the source package
<bipolar> ok
<Kyral> So Dapper repos will open as soon as Breezy goes stable?
<\sh> we hope so...
<bipolar> I think it's fixed.
<bipolar> yeah, it's fixed. must have been fixed this afternoon.
<bddebian> Fucking lyx.  It's builds fine in pbuilder but not locally so I can't test my changes. :-(
<LaserJock> is it possible to create a script for the FTBFS wiki pages?
<\sh> bddebian: ?
<\sh> bddebian: what does it mean "not locally" grap the packages and install it ;)
<\sh> bipolar: no yesterday ;)
<\sh> ogra: u didn't sleep as I told you ;)
<bddebian> \sh: dpkg-buildpackage pukes
<ogra> \sh, on my way to bed
<\sh> bddebian: dpkg-buildpackage has some problems sometimes
<\sh> ogra: I wondered, when I saw your uploads ;)
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra: think u should move to .au ;)
<ogra> YES ! :)
<\sh> -3 DAYS
<ogra> yes :/
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> \sh: Aye, so how would I test it?  I guess I could try debuild but the damn thing takes 2 hours to build :-(
<\sh> and when Breezy is out, I'll apply for a  alcohol withdrawal treatment (sp?)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> bddebian: pbuilder? and install the package
<ogra> night all
<\sh> ogra: good night sleep well friend
<ogra> :)
<\sh> bddebian: or send me your patches and I let lyx building while I'm in the office
<bddebian> \sh: I did a pbuilder build but that doesn't save the .debs does it?
<bddebian> Night ogra
<\sh> dooglus: of course /var/spool/pbuilder/result/
<\sh> aeh sorry /var/cache/pbuilder/result/
<\sh> bddebian: that is
<\sh> not dooglus
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> too early in the morning
<bddebian> Doh, what an idiot.  I was looking in /var/cache/pbuilder/build/  :-(
<\sh> bddebian: I have here 2 pbuilder running, and everything is in my homedir ;)
<\sh> bddebian: I'll write a nice howto, how you deal with one two three pbuilders at the same time very niceley, for dapper :)
<bddebian> Heh.
<bddebian> Step 1)  Get a very fast ass machine ;-)
<\sh> I'll think I do as well some work on the backports front for dapper
* ajmitch thinks he'll sit on the sidelines for dapper
<bddebian> ajmitch: No freakin' way :-)
<\sh> bddebian: HARHAR...you don't need it...think I'll bring my working laptop to UBZ so everybody can see, how the real hacks are working ;) hmm...for that i have to remove the tobacco, the dust and everything else which doesn't belong in a laptop somehow
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> bddebian: too late :P
<ajmitch> bddebian: besides, I don't want to intrude on the territory of the #1 bug fixer
<bddebian> Hmm, well the .deb has /usr/share/mime/packages/lyx.xml but it didn't seem to install it :-(
<ajmitch> you checked it with dpkg-deb?
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> ajmitch: Who is the #1 bugfixer, bmonty ? :-_)
<ajmitch> BddebianIsAGod
<\sh> just heard "Down Under" from Men At Work :)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> ajmitch: No he isn't, ask \sh now.  He has changed his tune. ;-P
<\sh> bddebian: No :) I didn't I just said, that I don't believe in God that's why I left the church ;)
<bddebian> ajmitch: I added it to lyx-common.install too but that was failing saying it couldn't find lyx.xml
<ajmitch> right
<bddebian> right what?
* ajmitch sees that trulux decides to resurface now that someone is asking about ubuntu hardened :P
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> and of course he wants to get a bounty for selinux work..
* ajmitch sighs
<Kyral> I just realized something
* ajmitch suppresses rants
<Burgundavia> ah rant anyway ajmitch, it should be interesting
<Kyral> for most Ubuntu Users, the 13th means Upgrade to Breezy day
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: nah, I'd rather just sit back, be bitter, & mope
<Kyral> but for MOTUs (and MOTUs In Training) its Upgrade to Dapper days
<\sh> Kyral: no
<ajmitch> nah
<Kyral> eh?
<ajmitch> we wait a week or so
<\sh> Kyral: dapper needs some love first, before we can update
<Kyral> whew good :D
<bddebian> Would someone mind looking at this: http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/lyx/lyx_1.3.6-1ubuntu4.debdiff
<\sh> Kyral: and it's adviced to do your first steps towards dapper in a chroot ;)
<Kyral> So who is gonna be at UBZ on the 30th?
<bddebian> To see what I'm missing?
* ajmitch will be at UBZ
* \sh too
<Kyral> I will be :D
* ajmitch upgraded to breezy just before UDU
<Kyral> Just for Ubuntu Love, 'cause I have class the rest of the week
<\sh> diff -u lyx-1.3.6/debian/lyx-common.install lyx-1.3.6/debian/lyx-common.install
<\sh> --- lyx-1.3.6/debian/lyx-common.install
<\sh> +++ lyx-1.3.6/debian/lyx-common.install
<\sh> @@ -6 +5,0 @@
<\sh> -
<\sh> only in patch2:
<\sh> unchanged:
<\sh> ajmitch: I updated in the middle of the xorg trans dance
<ajmitch> I guess I'll have to try & have a fully functioning SELinux system by UBZ then to show off
<Kyral> I don't have a laptop :(
<Kyral> But I'll just be there :D
* ajmitch has 1 usable laptop
<Kyral> Look for the idiot in a Clarkson T-Shirt
* \sh needs a wlan card for his nc6000...think I'll borrow a simple prism pcmcia
<ajmitch> Kyral: what school are you at?
<Kyral> Clarkson ;P
<ajmitch> \sh: I'll bring a couple of cards
<ajmitch> Kyral: doesn't tell me much :P
<Kyral> www.clarkson.edu
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I'll bring two laptops ;)
<ajmitch> CS major? :)
<Kyral> Bingo
<ajmitch> \sh: no point me bringing 2
<\sh> ajmitch: the r200 and the nc6000 ;)
<Kyral> Sopomore
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
<ajmitch> since the old laptop is getting progressively more stuffed
<bddebian> ajmitch: Don't give me that sob story, I still have one sitting here.. ;-P
<ajmitch> battery latch is broken now, so I'll need to tape or glue the battery in :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: it doesn't get used much now, for good reasons
<bddebian> \sh: So what did I miss there?
<Kyral> So yah if you see me come up and say hi ;D
<Kyral> What usually happens at Ubuntu Love Days anyway
<\sh> bddebian: u said u added this file lyx.xml to lyx-common.install
<ajmitch> dunno
<ajmitch> since we didn't have one at UDU
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> Kyral: well...I wonder what will happen on 31st ;)
<ajmitch> we'll find out when we get there
<Kyral> I assume a bunch of free stuff
<ajmitch> eh?
<ajmitch> why would you assume free stuff?
<Kyral> Dunno
<Kyral> I'm hoping
<Kyral> I'm a college student. Free stuff drives my life
<bddebian> \sh: I took it back out after I was getting that error. Check the funkiness of debian/rules
<ajmitch> you might pick up a free ubuntu cd if you're lucky
<ajmitch> bddebian: ask bob2
<Kyral> \sh I won't be able to stay past Ubuntu Love. I have classes
<bddebian> ajmitch: Ask him what?
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're having fun with lyx, right?
<\sh> bddebian: hmmm...
<ajmitch> you do realise that bob2 is a lyx co-maintainer?
<bddebian> ajmitch: No, I didn't know that
<ajmitch> you do now ;)
<ajmitch> and I saw him active on irc 3 minutes ago
* Kyral yawns
<bob2> yo?
<Kyral> I'll prolly stay in Breezy for a couple months and help out the Backports team before going to Dapper
<\sh> moins bob2 :)
<bob2> oh, btw
<bob2> where are people supposed to get support for backport problems?
<bob2> do you guys have a user support list/bug tracker?
<Kyral> UbuntuForums
<bddebian> bob2: Can you look at this:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/lyx/lyx_1.3.6-1ubuntu4.debdiff ?
<bob2> the forums is all? seriously?
<bddebian> bob2: /usr/share/mime/packages/lyx.xml shows in lyx-common.deb but isn't getting installed?
<\sh> bob2: ubuntu-backports ml
<bob2> bddebian: how can it be in the package but not be installed?
<ajmitch> hey bob2
<bddebian> bob2: You tell me :-)
<bob2> also, should I be bothered that you guys are up to 1ubuntu4 (implying 3 extra uploads) but I have no patches in the Debian BTS?
<ajmitch> bob2: yes, lart them severely
<bob2> bddebian: I don't see that in any of the lyx packages; what's that .xml file for? some gnome mime-type thing?
<ajmitch> ubuntu1 was loosen build-depends, ubuntu2 was python depends, ubuntu3 is desktop file..
<bddebian> bob2: Yes
<ajmitch> so nothing major for debian :)
<bob2> bddebian: (also, careful with your diffs, one of those hunks just delets a blank line)
<bob2> ajmitch: ah, right, np then :)
<bob2> bddebian: does Debian's gnome support whatever it is?
<bddebian> bob2: I would assume so but I couldn't say for sure.  I run xfce on my Debian box :-)
<bob2> ah
<ajmitch> bddebian: debian gnu/hurd? :)
<bob2> bddebian: ok, file a bug in the bts and I'll include it in the next upload (sans whitespace changes)
<\sh> me is taking now a bug piece of shit named vnc4
<\sh> bob2: well...looks like bddebian needs it before the 13th ;)
<ajmitch> bob2: will you get us a bzr package in the next day or two for breezy?
<bob2> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> yay
<bob2> ajmitch: 0.1 is apparently today
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> was talking to lifeless last night about it
<bob2> ajmitch: oh, yeah, did you see my reply?
<ajmitch> since sabdfl put in the request
<bob2> I think I palmed off blame quite smoothly ;p
<ajmitch> yes, I did
<ajmitch> bob2: you're meant to blame your sponsors
<ajmitch> it's the easy out
<ajmitch> but I can understand that, I think 0.1 was expected by end of september on the roadmap
<lifeless> bob2: I did not see your reply
<\sh> why the heck vnc4 has 28MB of source and the orig file on realvnc only 517kB?
<ajmitch> 03:35 < bob2> ajmitch__: lifeless LarstiQ 1.0rc1 didn't exist when I checked on friday evening
<ajmitch> 03:36 < bob2> 0.0.8 didn't build due to the manpage thing, and by the time I fixed it for 0.0.9, I was under the impression 0.1 was imminent
<ajmitch> 03:36 < bob2> (and I wanted something to hit testing)
<\sh> ah forget it
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> \sh: someone decided to distribute a movie as a manual?
<\sh> ajmitch: bah
<\sh> debian doesn't have a running vnc4 as well ;)
<\sh> let's concentrate on really important stuff like xview?
<ajmitch> yeah
<\sh> *yawn*
<lifeless> bob2: thus proving that testing is harmful
<\sh> wow nice...
<\sh> an easy fix
<\sh> but a shitload of handwork for changing /usr/X11R6 to our layout
<\sh> this is a nono before I had my first cup of coffee..
<ajmitch> sed it?
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi there bddebian
<ajmitch> hello tritium
<\sh> ajmitch: something like this, yeah...but I'll postpone it to 5:45 UTC
<bob2> lifeless: testing is something that happens to other people
<ajmitch> \sh: first coffee or first beer? :)
<tritium> so what's causing the odd behavior in X today?
<ajmitch> tritium: what 'odd behaviour'?
<\sh> that's when I'm sitting at my desk and have my first cup of coffee
<lifeless> bob2: 'testing the suite'
<\sh> ajmitch: come on...it's monday here and I have to work...
<tritium> ajmitch: not refreshing/updating windows properly
<lifeless> \sh: did you not just go to bed ?
<tritium> ajmitch: nalioth mentioned that others have been asking in #ubuntu
<\sh> lifeless: I woke up after 3h and37 minutes
<\sh> lifeless: of sleep
<tritium> I'm not the only one experiencing this problem
<ajmitch> tritium: only possible thing I see is a new gtk+ upload from yesterday
<ajmitch> and that was only a minor patch
<tritium> don't know
<Kyral> Good night MOTU Team
<hub> I tried something crazy tonite: packaging gimpshop
<hub> the problem is that the package does not install
<bob2> then you install the bits yourself
<bddebian> GNight Kyral
<lifeless> \sh: ouch
<\sh> lifeless: well...yes I'm getting old...don't need much sleep anymore ;)
<lifeless> \sh: I thought that was the other way around !
<lifeless> babies - no sleep
<lifeless> 90 year old men - asleep in the road in thei pyjamas
<\sh> nah...babies are sleeping most of the day...but not when you sleep ;)
<tritium> ajmitch: which gtk+ package are you referring to?
<\sh> and regarding me...well...30 years in future, I think I'll need only 1h of sleep, because the rest of the day I'm waiting for Mr. Death ;)
<\sh> and now it's time for a shower
<ajmitch> tritium: gtk+
<ajmitch> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch
<tritium> ajmitch: I'd check breezy-changes if I could use my browser, but I can't.
<ajmitch> heh
<tritium> :(
<ajmitch> are bugs filed?
<ajmitch> please make sure they get filed ASAP, with a decent severity
<tritium> I don't know.  I'm trying to get links2 working so I can check bugzilla
<ajmitch> that's why you have that winXP install still, right? ;)
<tritium> true enough
<jsgotangco> i've tried a preview of vmware on my windows partition and ubuntu is still snappy at 128MB
<ajmitch> I don't see it in recent bugs
<tritium> thanks for checking, ajmitch
<jsgotangco> so youre stuck in irssi?
<tritium> yeah, on linux I am.  ajmitch reminded me that I still have XP, or I can use my wife's iMac
* ajmitch is stuck on XP here at work
<ajmitch> and I use irssi anyway :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, you have to code php on Windows?
<jsgotangco> whats wrong with that?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: that is correct
<Lathiat> eww :)
<ajmitch> the server is linux though
<ajmitch> but I need IE to test on
* ajmitch shudders
<bddebian> mwuhahaha
<\sh> wow...that was good
<ajmitch> \sh: coffee? ;)
<\sh> shower
* tritium missed the Santana concert due to rain
<\sh> now I'm not feeling like an old fart of 65 anymore, no, now I'm feeling like an old fart of 60 ,-)
<bddebian> Heh
* ajmitch would probably feel better if he were hit by a bus
<bddebian> Watch the "old man" comments ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: get over it
<\sh> bddebian: I think we're the same age range, right? ,-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're probably not the oldest one here
<\sh> Well....God, God Son and the Holy Ghost
<\sh> Bddebian, \sh and Ogra ;)
<bddebian> \sh: 35
<\sh> bddebian: yeah...same age...34 here and ogra is 35 ;)
* jsgotangco pays his respects
<ajmitch> sometimes ogra looks 45, if he hasn't had much sleep ;)
* jsgotangco hides
<ajmitch> hopefully he'll be less corpse-like at UBZ
<jsgotangco> yeah ogra has been loaded lately
<jsgotangco> the x-s-s thing made it worse
<ajmitch> loaded? he's been doing a huge amount of work
<\sh> he looked really bad, well I'll see him next weekend...
<jsgotangco> hope he's not burning out
<ajmitch> we'll have to pour a few beers into him to revive him :)
<ajmitch> a shame that bddebian isn't going to be at UBZ
<\sh> jsgotangco: well...we all are a bit burned out, but actually, volunteers have the possibility to retreat for some days/weeks/months
<ajmitch> otherwise we could do a beer for each package uploaded or bug squashed ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: we can?
<jsgotangco> \sh, we currently have a choice to fade away, ogra doesn't have that luxury atm
<\sh> jsgotangco: yeah...
<\sh> ajmitch: why not?
<ajmitch> \sh: got to prepare for UBZ
<\sh> ajmitch: yesterday I made a little statistic about my upload behaviour
<\sh> and august was the poorest
* ajmitch hardly uploaded anything to breezy compared to everyone else
<ajmitch> what, only 100 packages in august?
<\sh> ajmitch: and that was my burned out phase
<LaserJock> if only there was a UITD (Ubuntu In The Desert) i could come :-)
<\sh> ajmitch: come on..be serious
<tritium> LaserJock: me too!  Where are you?
<LaserJock> Reno, Nevada
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why so you could laugh at me? :-)
<jsgotangco> LaserJock, say like in Egypt?
<tritium> LaserJock: Albuquerque, NM here
<bddebian> We need UDLV
<ajmitch> \sh: sorry, it was 30 packages in august
<seth_k> Sadly UBZ is probably the closest it will ever get to me
<LaserJock> UDLV would be good
<bddebian> LaserJock: ;-)
<Burgundavia> AFAIK, there will be no Ubuntu dev conferences in the Untied States
<ajmitch> \sh: which is a *LOT* more than I upload
<tritium> Why is that, Burgundavia?
<jsgotangco> i remember sabdfl metioning something like that...
<Burgundavia> tritium, sabdfl got grey-listed by the INS
<hub> Burgundavia: why in the US?
<bob2> haha
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: haha
<hub> Burgundavia: immigration is a PITA there
<tritium> Burgundavia: oh, really?  For going to space on a Russian ship?
<lifeless> hub: I think you mean, why NOT in the US
<hub> lifeless: nope
<Burgundavia> he can come in, he just goes through hell everytime
<hub> lifeless: I can't enter the US
<bob2> Burgundavia: also because various ubuntu people refuse to go to the US
<ajmitch> hub: why not?
<bob2> tho the jet story is funny by itself
<Burgundavia> hub, something about flying in without giving proper notice
<tritium> bob2: really?
<hub> ajmitch: passport issues
<lifeless> no, for refueling perfectly legally, and customs got knickers in a twist about some flight plan irregularity
<jsgotangco> lol
<hub> Burgundavia: I live 60km from the US border
<ajmitch> lifeless: that's a bit of a worry, but the US is like that..
<lifeless> ajmitch: indeed.
<bob2> lifeless: you need visas to transit through the US
<Burgundavia> hub, I live about 20km from it
<jsgotangco> yes you need visas
<hub> Burgundavia: other coast, yes
<lifeless> ajmitch: which is why I will not ever be setting foot on US soil
<ajmitch> I'll be going through the US to get to UBZ
<jsgotangco> it would be nice if the next conference would be near a beach
<lifeless> ajmitch: I'm flying somewhat longer to achieve that for montreal
<lifeless> ajmitch: poor bastard
<ajmitch> I couldn't afford to fly via europe or japan, I think
<lifeless> ajmitch: hope you have your fingerprint-gloves
<ajmitch> so I've got to get my passport updated
<Burgundavia> the big thing about flying near the US is that if you pass over US airspace, they can still stop the plane
<ajmitch> since my one I had in sydney is *slightly* waterdamaged
<lifeless> ajmitch: all it needs is hong kong, and you're fine
<Burgundavia> s/they/the US
<hub> Burgundavia: and if you have a connection in the US you must do immigration
<Burgundavia> hub, ya
<hub> fortunately Montreal -> France is easy
<lifeless> yah.
<tritium> bob2: so why do certain ubuntu people refuse to come here?
<Burgundavia> but there is a case of an Air France jet from Mexico to Europe being turned back because of the US no-fly list
<lifeless> apparently a __lot__ of people are saying 'no us airspace, KTHNXBYE'
<lifeless> my travel agent was telling me about it
<bob2> tritium: they don't want to be potentially prosecuted under the DMCA or harrassed by the FBI or whatever
<tritium> oh, I see
<bob2> skylarov was in jail for *months*
<jsgotangco> FOSS work makes you a potential criminal?
<lifeless> tritium: uhm, because US have an anal-retentive immigration policy that violates just about every civil right in existence, AND a fucked legal system that makes software patents legal (I'd be able to be imprisoned if I landed in the US, and I'm small fish compared to some of the guys)
<hub> jsgotangco: according to US lobbies.yes
<lifeless> tritium: I mean, I do *nothing* illegal here, but in the US I'm apparently a terrorist or something.
<LaserJock> a friend of mine at school happens to share the same name as a IRA terrorist on the no-fly list. He found out coming back from a month in Germany :-o
<ajmitch> yeah, so hopefully I don't have too much 'fun' going through the US :P
<hub> ajmitch: can't fly thru canada?
<lifeless> LaserJock: a friend of mine was in the US, and he has 'ssss' on his boarding cards for the same reason.
<hub> packaging question
<tritium> lifeless: I'm not really sure what you're referring to
<lifeless> LaserJock: gets searched at *every* checkpoint.
<ajmitch> hub: flying to canada, I mean
<ajmitch> lifeless: US immigration is worse than australian?
<lifeless> ajmitch: via hong kong is quite cheap.
<LaserJock> I get checked a lot
<hub> I have libgimpshop2.0 that provides libgimp2.0, but pacakge depending on libgimp2.0 do not recognize it
<ajmitch> lifeless: already got my tickets via US
<tritium> lifeless: what's the immigration issue you're referring to?
<lifeless> ajmitch: for random visitors, yes.
* jsgotangco didnt have problems with australian immigration
<LaserJock> maybe I look like a terrorist, lol
<hub> how to solve that?
<hub> Package: libgimpshop2.0
<lifeless> tritium: fingerprinting everyone? A pretty broken facial recognition system?
<tritium> my wife immigrated here from the Philippines with no problems
<hub> Replaces: libgimp2.0, libgimp1.3, gimp1.3-data, gimp-data (<< 2.0.0-6)
<hub> Provides: libgimp2.0
* ajmitch has only been to australia so far, so no hassles there
<lifeless> tritium: bah, you are an apologist, do not have time for this right now
<hub> tritium: Philipines have some special relationship with the US at one point
* hub has never been to .au or .nz
<tritium> lifeless: I'm just trying to understand what you're referring to
<\sh> fingerprints? we're using this in our company ;)
<jsgotangco> tritium, because our country is an unofficial state heh
* hub has been fingerprinted already
* tritium doesn't appreciate the label for asking questions
<Burgundavia> Canucks also get a pretty free ride
<hub> so now that half of the terrorist have my fingerprints from the US database, better not go there
<\sh> the last time I was in the US was 2001 just a couple of months before the attack
<lifeless> tritium: sorry, but AIUI the US policies are well known, so what I'm referring to should be obvious
<hub> \sh: 10 days befor I was there
<lifeless> tritium: if not, just google a little.
<\sh> and at the immigrations, there was this big black officer...and was questioning me in german
<\sh> I was SOOO shocked...
<\sh> u r flying 10 hours and then this...an ex-gi sitting there...and is talking to you in your own language
<lifeless> tritium: I am putting the onus on you, because of oh, 20 odd americans I've had the same discussion with, 19 of them got what I was referring to immediately.
<bmonty> \sh: sounds fairly effective to me....
* ajmitch is still doubtful if he can visit the US when he's flying in & out of canada :)
<bmonty> if you were a bad guy...you would have to be on your toes
<tritium> lifeless: sorry for being the 1 that wasn't familiar with it
<\sh> bmonty: well...the problem was, I was there to work...but for visa reasons I had to say: No I'm visiting only a company for a conference ;)
<bddebian> tritium: I don't know what he's talking about either so that makes two :-)
<LaserJock> tritium: don't feel bad, me too
<lifeless> huh.
<lifeless> ok., let me dig a little
<jsgotangco> lunch brb
<bmonty> \sh: hence the reason why they have that tactic :P
* hub should come back another time
<tritium> bddebian, LaserJock: nice to be in the same boat :)
<\sh> bmonty: well...now I know, germans are everywhere, even when they're not looking like germans ,-)
<lifeless> http://old.linux.org.au/fta/testimony/ thats the FOSS -> jail angle.
<tritium> heh, I'll have to check the IRC logs when I get X working again so i can check that URL
<lifeless> which is making me seriously consider leaving .au
<bmonty> \sh: if it makes you feel better, my only experience in Germany was eating really crappy food in the Frankfurt airport
<bddebian> tritium: A lot ofit is just stories
<lifeless> but AFAIK noone in the system here gives a shit about it and is ignoring it
<tritium> bddebian: and misunderstandings, media spin
<bddebian> aye
<\sh> bmonty: oh sad....because there are really nice places even in frankfurt...some nice italian restaurants, good turkish take-aways, indian restaurants and greek take-aways ;)
<bmonty> How up to date is the info on the FTBFS page?
<\sh> bmonty: I have to strike out my packages....
<ajmitch> lifeless: where would you go? nz?
<lifeless> ajmitch: yah, I am .nz citizen
<lifeless> and nz is still sane
<ajmitch> yeah I figured :)
<bmonty> \sh: not your packages...a few of the test build logs are an older version that what is in the archive
<ajmitch> since you said you were from dunedin, so there was a reasonable chance you were a citizen
<\sh> bmonty: if you're ready to have a really shit ass package ;) try vnc4 ,-)
<lifeless> http://www.foreignborn.com/visas_imm/entering_us/8inspectionprocess.htm <- note the 'you may be placed into detention'. EVEN IF YOU HAVE A VISA.
<\sh> bmonty: and don't ask me why our/debian package has 28MB of source file, when orig upstream sources are 517K and the java package is 780K
<hub> canada immigration is much cooler
<bmonty> \sh: yeah I just noticed the source package is huge
<bmonty> hub: yeah...they don't even care if you are so drunk that you can't spell your name :)
<\sh> ok guys...I'm going to work cu in 1 hour :)
<bddebian> Later \sh
<lifeless> http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2004/oct_nov/new_anti_terror.xml <- documentation on the fingerprinting process
<lifeless> I find it repulsive that you would be fingerprinted by C just for travelling from A->B if the plane needs to refuel in C.
<lifeless> utterly reprehensible.
<lifeless> ok, back to work
<ajmitch> alright, time for me to head home, bbiab
<LaserJock> is there a way to automate UniverseFTBFS and UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile?
<lifeless> last link, honest.. http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2003/December/u.s_visit.xml
<tritium> lifeless: I can't read those right now, so I don't know what they say.  I'm sorry for whatever it is that bothers you.
<lifeless> tritium: why are you sorry? you are not personally reponsible... though the us claims to be a democracy :0
<bddebian> Yeah tritium, all the other countries of the world are free but us, didn't you know that? ;-P
<lifeless> interesting strawman
<bmonty> why do I get the feeling that \sh screwed me over when he asked me to look at vnc4?
<ajmitch> bmonty: because he did
<bob2> I wonder if it's a crime to leave the US with gpg on your laptop
<LaserJock> bmonty: I pays to check irc logs sometimes ;-)
<tritium> lifeless: don't know what to say, other than that I feel bad.  I can't find words right now.
<bddebian> bmonty: :-)
<bmonty> it wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to fill out a web form to get the latest upstream source
<ajmitch> bob2: so should I setup crypted volumes for my trip to UBZ? :)
<ajmitch> bob2: btw, will you be going to UBZ?
<bob2> ajmitch: hah, only if it's 40-bit encryption!
<bob2> ajmitch: no, sadly
<bob2> flying to canada turns out to cost more than the $10 I'd budgeted
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<ajmitch> you'll make it to LCA, i guess? :)
<bob2> otoh, LCA is more fun than Ubuntu
<bob2> hope so :)
<ajmitch> still fairly cheap to fly to NZ for you
<ajmitch> although you'd probably need to fly from sydney :)
<bob2> heh
<bob2> who was it who flew to dunedin?
<ajmitch> hm?
<ajmitch> freedom air does
<ajmitch> but they're stopping dunedin flights in march iirc
<ajmitch> the others like pacific blue, jetstar, etc go to christchurch
<bmonty> anyone know how to get source code for vnc from realvnc?
<bob2> wow, $100 for dunedin -> sydney
<LaserJock> do any of you guys know how to get around a blocked IRC port?
<bob2> ssh tunnel, httptunnel, socks, ssh + screen, etc
<ajmitch> ip over dns
<bob2> haha
<bob2> eeeeeeeeeevil
<bob2> (but cool)
<ajmitch> I think we've got a daemon for that in breezy, too
<ajmitch> Maintainer: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>
<ajmitch> yeah, we do ;)
<bmonty> have any of you guys played around with LDAP and Kerberos to do a single sign-on?
<hub> ajmitch: ip over dns is fun
<LaserJock> so my IRC port is blocked at school. what would you suggest?
<lifeless> dont IRC from school ?
<LaserJock> well, that's the problem. My linux comps are at school (which is where I am a lot of the day) and I have only windows comps at home
<bob2> irc from school is a recipe for disaster
<lifeless> LaserJock: I suggest you install linux at home
<LaserJock> fine, I guess. I do more work at school. Home time is for working on the yard, garage, etc..
<LaserJock> I was just wondering if some of you faced the same problem
<ajmitch> nope
<lifeless> LaserJock: is the school policy 'no irc', or is it 'you can but the port *happens* to be blocked'
<lifeless> if its the former, consider your actions seriously
<lifeless> if its the latter, workaround any way you want, and agitate for them to unblock it
<hub> or just don't do from school
<LaserJock> lifeless: yeah, that's not going to happen. The IT department hates linux so...
<hub> LaserJock: what is the relation between hating Linux and not opening IRC?
<hub> I don't see
<lifeless> LaserJock: nothing to do with linux
<bmonty> ./configure
<bmonty> oops
<LaserJock> they will be like "Why do you want to do that?" and I will be cause I want to use IRC for support and help Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and they will say "Ohhh, we can't have that"
<hub> LaserJock: tell that it is to help develop a program for Windows :-)
<bmonty> LaserJock: you say that there are some great opportunities to interact and further my education, blah, blah, blah
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just say it's a necessary part of your studies
<ajmitch> you're a grad student?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yep
<bob2> wow
<bmonty> ls
<ajmitch> you ought to be experienced at bending the truth then ;)
<bob2> even in bandwidth poor .au you get unrestricted net access as a grad student
<hub> bob2: each is own IT policy
<ajmitch> bob2: not in somewhere backwards like NZ
<LaserJock> Well, we get hacked a lot and all of the freshmen in the dorms cause enough problems that they just turn off a lot of the ports
<ajmitch> I think that net access would be unrestricted at uni here for outbound, but you pay for the data used
<bob2> eep
<bob2> ANU just sends stern letters if you get noticed on the daily traffic reports
<ajmitch> ITS just sends out bills
<bob2> hah
<bob2> not often we get to feel bandwidth-rich ;p
<ajmitch> compared to NZ you're beyond rich :)
<LaserJock> well, when the virus waves come rolling through, the IT department starts getting anal ;-)
<ajmitch> so I don't know how they're going to work it at LCA..
<hub> LaserJock: "hacked" please use that word properly
<bmonty> \sh: you working on packaging vnc 4.1?
<hub> LaserJock: hacking does not imply illegal activities
<LaserJock> not all of the hacking we have is illegal activity, but most of it is
<hub> LaserJock: stop using hack to designate illegal activites
<LaserJock> hub: I didn't
<hub> you did
<LaserJock> I said that we get hacked, I didn't say it was necessarily illegal
<hub> "we get hacked a lot" <- implies the improper use of the word hacking
<bob2> come on guys...
<LaserJock> well, sorry then. I guess is was using the term to flipantly
<LaserJock> *too
<LaserJock> what would be a better term?
<lifeless> cracked
<LaserJock> well, cracked implies illegal entery right?
<bmonty> CRACKED is what happens when the HACKERS get to your website :)
<LaserJock> so, is there every a proper usage of "getting hacked"?
<LaserJock> or, is hacking a general term for computer nerd stuff, just kidding
<bob2> depends if you're trying to be a zdnet reader or a FS hacker
<bob2> in the latter world, no
<\sh> bmonty: no...
<lifeless> http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/t/TheMeaningofHack.html
<bmonty> \sh: oh well...I'm not going to either :)
<\sh> bmonty: *g* as I said a shit ass package ;)
<bmonty> seriously though....can we break UVF for that?
<\sh> bmonty: if it fixes the package, sure
<LaserJock> lifless: thanks, I live in the chemistry world mostly, not the computer sci. world. Sometimes I don't have the jargon right
<\sh> bmonty: but even debian doesn't have a 4.1 package available...well...i didn't check for testing or experimental
<bmonty> \sh: they don't have 4.1 at all
<bmonty> I could package 4.1, but I have no way to test it.  I'm not a vnc user.
<\sh> bmonty: but a non working 4.0 ;) so we're fine
<\sh> bmonty: I don't even know, why this stupid package has 28MB of orig.tar.gz
<bmonty> \sh: yeah...the debian maintainer says he hasn't had time to package 4.1 yet
<bmonty> good night everyone
<LaserJock> cya bmonty
<bddebian> Gnight bmonty
<bddebian> Holy shit, we are back up over 500 bugs again.. :-(  ajmitch: How did you let that happen? ;-P
<hub> package question
<ajmitch> by not closing any
<hub> isn't "Provides" suppose to say that package X provide Y for package that needs Y?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well get to work homey ;-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<\sh> bddebian: g'night god ;)
<bddebian> pshaw :-)
<bddebian> Gnight \sh
<\sh> bah...emacs21 looks ugly somehow
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<bddebian> emacs looks ugly period
* bddebian hides
<\sh> wow
<\sh> 41k deaths in pakistan? earthquake?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<\sh> holy shit
<jsgotangco> the population there is huge really
<LaserJock> 41k dang, it was < 1k this morning
<jsgotangco> south asia is quite unlucky thisyear
<jsgotangco> first the tsunami
<\sh> I don't have a tv, nor a radio, neither I'm reading online news...Just saw this in our morning tv shows now in the office
<jsgotangco> its been a while since i experienced an earthquake that killed a lot of people
<jsgotangco> (not that i hope to experience it again)
<\sh> sry...I'm just shocked
<jsgotangco> \sh, i've been to india and pakistan a few years ago, the place is just dense...so i guess when an earthquake happens it kills a lot
<ajmitch> I'm hoping we don't have a big quake here in NZ anytime soon
<ajmitch> especially one centered around wellington
<jsgotangco> NZ is almost empty compared to the southern part of the continent
<jsgotangco> the population of the whole NZ area is probably comparable to 2 cities in India
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> but it's one big fault line
<lifeless> only in the mountains
<ajmitch> and wellington
<lifeless> you know, the big ones pushed up by it
<jsgotangco> wellington?
<lifeless> jsgotangco: its a cit.y.
* jsgotangco lives under a fault line
<jsgotangco> it moves like 2cm a year
<\sh> oh well...I know why I'm not watching news...
<\sh> every day bad news
<\sh> chick flue in europe
<\sh> chicken flu even
<\sh> whatever
<jsgotangco> bird flu and mad cow
<jsgotangco> bird flu is pretty scary
<jsgotangco> the migratory birds are involved
<LaserJock> well, I got to go. cya all
<\sh> a scientiest mentioned now, that there is question, that the bird flu is mixing up with the normal flu virus, the question is when...he thinks 3 to 5 years
<\sh> there is no question ;)
<jsgotangco> because the organisms mutate to survive
<jsgotangco> others would say the earth is cleansing itself
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> that we are living in a planet that doesn't seem to want us at all
<\sh> jsgotangco: no....it's evolution, neo, evolution
<\sh> jsgotangco: only the strongest of us will survive and will be a better human race..:(
<\sh> and I hope working on FOSS will make me strong ,-)
<\sh> it's so depressing :(
<hub> is gcj complete in Breezy?
<\sh> should be...
<\sh> gcj == gnu java compiler?
<hub> yeap
<hub> now this time it accept to install it
<hub> weird
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> sound-juicer just isn't wanting to start, blocking on a connect() call to the fam socket..
<ajmitch> not healthy
<ajmitch> probably due to the dist-upgrade
* ajmitch waits patiently :)
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach!
<dholbach> morning andrew
<hub> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey hub, just answered your mail :)
<hub> dholbach: I have sort of a package working for gimpshop
<hub> time to go to bed
<hub> talk to you later
<dholbach> night hub :)
<ajmitch> ah, \sh..
<ajmitch> Unpacking libofx2 (from .../libofx2_1%3a0.8.0-3ubuntu6_i386.deb) ...
<ajmitch> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libofx2_1%3a0.8.0-3ubuntu6_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/share/libofx/dtd/opensp.dcl', which is also in package libofx1c2
<ajmitch> no surprise there :P
<\sh> ajmitch: bah
<\sh> Package: libofx-dev
<\sh> Replaces: libofx1, libofx1c2, libofx2 (<< 0.8.0-3ubuntu4)
<ajmitch> that's great
<ajmitch> but the Replaces: needs to be on libofx2 as well
<\sh> fck
<Treenaks> \o/ settings.sh (gconftool-2 script with most of my Gnome settings)
<Treenaks> Now even SuSE is usable
<\sh> ajmitch: << 0.8.0-3ubuntu6 is correct *gnarf* now I have to upload one with 0.8.0-3ubuntu7 :(
<ajmitch> heh :)
<ajmitch> I think I need to logout or something
<ajmitch> panel just crashed & everything is going buts
<ajmitch> s/buts/nuts/
<\sh> uploaded
<ajmitch> thanks
<sivang> morning all
<sivang> morning MOTUs
<dholbach> morning sivan
<\sh> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey stephan
* \sh needs a new job
<\sh> all the good guys are leaving my team
<sivang> \sh: join the club :-)
<sivang> hack, who were those good guys on my team ? ;-)
<\sh> sivang: well...for our company that's quite  clear that some people are leaving...
<\sh> but it's really sad, cause we are a good team, have a lot of fun, and doing our work perfectly...:(
<sivang> \sh: more people out of the team that ogra was ?
<sivang> (and you are )
<\sh> sivang: same company different team yes
<sivang> \sh: I see
<\sh> sivang: ogra was engineering, I'm operations
<sivang> ogra: I see, well, I hope new ones will come that will be just as good as the previous were
<\sh> sivang: actually, you can't replace a guy, which was working 4 years now for this team...the loss of knowledge is really a huge impact
<sivang> \sh: k, I've seen this. anyway, I'm out see you all later
<\sh> cu sivang hf :)
<sivang> hf ?
<sivang> :)
<\sh> have fun ;)I
<\sh> trying to fix kwin-baghira btw
<dholbach> i'd like to make a note regarding desktop files: if you add new ones, could you please file your patch as a bug in the upstream bug tracker (or mail the maintainers) that'd be really nice and would reduce the merging efforts each and everytime
<sivang> ah it's good to be back
<ajmitch> wb sivang ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: what was wrong with kwin-baghira?
<ajmitch> it was showing up just fine for me :P
* ajmitch didn't get any linker errors on the console..
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1399
<ajmitch> \sh: yes, I saw that
<ajmitch> ok, I think I see now..
<\sh> ajmitch: do u have this baghira-style stuff? in kde/styles?
<ajmitch> let me start kcontrol..
<ajmitch> it takes awhile :P
<ajmitch> no, I see the issue now
<ajmitch> I should never be allowed to use malone after 9pm :P
<\sh> I'll test 0.7 package now
<\sh> works
<ajmitch> does a recompile of the current package work?
<\sh> no
<\sh> i think 0.6 is to old for 3.4
<ajmitch> yay for broken kde stuff ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: I'll request a sync by elmo
<\sh> it will be not the last today....
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I've probably got a few to sync as well
<Tonio-> hi everyone, having a little question....
<Tonio-> wy insn't ubuntu able to configure dma automatcally during the installation ?
<ajmitch> it does
<ajmitch> just not for all hardware
<Treenaks> not for _any_ CD or DVD drives
<Treenaks> afaik
<JakubS_> hello
<Tonio-> well I installed it on about 5 computers and it never worked....
<Treenaks> Tonio-: on disks it should work
<ajmitch> Treenaks: depends if ide-generic is loaded before the chipset driver
<JakubS_> is it possible to generate one more package from kdenetwork .orig.tar.gz? i would like to package kio_zeroconf that is disabled from compilation by default
<Tonio-> yep I was talking about cd/dvd, sorry ^^
<Treenaks> ajmitch: yes, but on 5 different machines it's bound to work correctly on at least one...
<ajmitch> JakubS_: only if you talk really nicely to \sh & riddell, since it's in main
<ajmitch> Treenaks: not for cd/dvd ;)
<JakubS_> ajmitch: this was already discussed and rejected
<\sh> JakubS_: please join #kubuntu-devel ... I think we don't have zeroconf support right now
<ajmitch> JakubS_: ok, so why are you asking us?
<ajmitch> \sh: JakubS_ has been working on it with avahi
<JakubS_> ajmitch: because i want to use existing kdenetwork.orig.tar.gz and create new package for universe using it
<ajmitch> ugh
<JakubS_> i don't want to put anything new in main
<JakubS_> \sh: package is generally done, slomo and Lathiat were testing it
<JakubS_> (for kdnssd-avahi that is, not kio_zeroconf)
<\sh> JakubS_: what's possible (not for breezy) that you can generate a kio_zeroconf package and let this hit the universe out of the main source of kdenetwork...but this is really too close to release...so no go actually
<JakubS_> i see, too bad
<\sh> JakubS_: I mean, I think riddell will do this, but mdz or kamion will reject the wish
<JakubS_> i thought that feature freeze is only  for main and universe can be modified anytime
<\sh> JakubS_: but the source is in main :)
<\sh> JakubS_: and it is a change on something which is in main...even if the package lands in universe
<\sh> JakubS_: the binary package
<JakubS_> for 1) true 2) not exactly, it only adds new kio slave without changing anything existing
<JakubS_> just like for example kio_locate
<\sh> JakubS_: which is 1) a new feature 2) it changes debian/control in a main package and 3) it has to be tested if it works... so it's a more intrusive change, than a small one like a typo in a manpage...actually, it can't be sooo important, that it can't wait after the 13th
<\sh> add 2) not only debian/control ;) it has to change as well elmos overrides etc.
<JakubS_> hoary done well without zeroconf so i guess breezy also can do :-)
<\sh> JakubS_: please don't understand me wrong..if it would be earlier in the release cycle, i think those things are possible (we did it with amarok) but right now less then 3 days to release... I don't think that kde will invent something new just before a release ;)
<JakubS_> i understand, i was prevented from implementing few things by kde feature freeze too
<\sh> JakubS_: and there is a possibilty that dapper packages with all new features are backported to breezy :)
* talios wanders in and looks around, looks at his bug entry in malone, and looks around for Barry deFreese
<ajmitch> evening talios
<ajmitch> what's the bug number?
<talios> 'lo ajmitch
<talios> 2930
<ajmitch> you're not likely to see bddebian at this hour
<ajmitch> been awhile since I've seen you round :)
<talios> I've been here - just lurking on other channels alot.
<talios> finally got rid of all my fedora boxes :)
<talios> well, ish.  my server box at the office is centos.
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> I wonder where we got squeak-vm from?
<ajmitch> hm, it's multiverse
<talios> ajmitch, did you ever see the NZHerald article on Ubuntu?  I read off the shit on NZLUG about it from MrYoper - but never saw the actual article
<ajmitch> no, I never saw the article
<ajmitch> I did see the heat on nzlug about it ;)
<ajmitch> right, squeak-vm is grabbed from linex
<ajmitch> " This package contains just the Squeak virtual machine.  If you are
<ajmitch>  new to Squeak then you will have to install the squeak-image and
<ajmitch>  squeak-sources packages too before you can run Squeak.
<ajmitch> "
<talios> ahh squeak-image package?
<ajmitch> not in ubuntu
<talios> didn't think I'd seen any 3rd package
<talios> theres the -vm and -sources
<ajmitch> not sure where to grab squeak-images from
<talios> I have an image I grabbed from the squeak.org distro, but thats not really solving any package based problem - only my immediate.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> so what are you mainly missing?
<talios> basically the ability to create a clean, fresh image file.  given that I can download it from the squeak website its not sooo much of an issue, but theres a manpage existing for inisqueak that says "ill create your clean image", but no script.
<talios> so anyone whoses wanting to apt-get a squeak system can't just jump in and play
<ajmitch> ok, I see an inisqueak.in
<ajmitch> in the source
<ajmitch> so it should get built
<talios> is it (and the .image files in /usr/share/xxx ) just not included in some file list to package or something?
<ajmitch> or the packaging just needs stripped down & redone..
<ajmitch> since I'd need to take a bit of a look to make sure it's doing the right things
<Lathiat> gah have to rebuild pbuilder again
<Lathiat> i keep forgetting to save it when i reformat
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> why reformat?
<Lathiat> testing out the install, clean up the system, in this case i was installing kubuntu
<Lathiat> doubling for a)
<talios> vmware++
<ajmitch> you couldn't just install into a spare partition or LVM space? :)
<talios> or xen.
<Lathiat> i dont have the luxury of spare space :)
<ajmitch> or backup the drive before installing? :)
<Lathiat> i keep /home
<ajmitch> sure you do
<Lathiat> just i forge tlittle things
<Lathiat> like pbuilder
<talios> Lathiat, ajmitch will buy you a spare machine :)
<Lathiat> nothing of consequence
<Lathiat> but annoying :)
<ajmitch> *choke*
<Lathiat> and xen doesnt play so well on laptops
<Lathiat> and vmware isnt a true representation fo if the installer is workign on my hardware
<ajmitch> talios: I might buy him a beer, but not a new machine ;)
<Lathiat> :)
<ajmitch> talios: you coming to LCA as well?
* Lathiat is currently test building new synce stuff from debian.., in the hopes my ipaq will work with it then :)
<Lathiat> new minor upstream versions
<talios> linuxconf?  thinking of...
<ajmitch> yeah, linux conf australia
<talios> in new zealand ;p
<Lathiat> ajmitch: now now you buy beer for a minor would you? ;p
<Lathiat> nz is just a state of australia
<Lathiat> ;p
<Lathiat> s/you/you wouldnt
<ajmitch> Lathiat: by the time you're over here you won't be a minor :)
<Lathiat> indeed
<Lathiat> so
<Lathiat> registratiosn open today
<Lathiat> but i still dont see a programme
<Lathiat> and i know 2 people who havent been ACKd or NACKd on their papers
<Lathiat> and they havent got back to me about travel assistance
<Lathiat> hrm :\
<ajmitch> yeah
<Lathiat> not to mention we're 3 weeks overdue of this point already
<ajmitch> they seem a bit disorganised at times..
<ajmitch> conference is only about 15 weeks away
<Lathiat> s/at times/in general
<ajmitch> so 3 weeks slippage is bad
<Lathiat> ohw ell
<Lathiat> we'll see
<bob2> Lathiat: yeah, I was worried about that
<bob2> since I'd nominally like to go
<Lathiat> i helped organize 03, i know it can be a bit
<Lathiat> but its starting to get a bit worrying :\
<Lathiat> s/bit/bitch
<ajmitch> Lathiat: we might have to pass the hat around the MOTUs ;)
<Lathiat> heh
* talios hunts coke
* talios walks into the lounge and sees some crap "south auckland" tv show and the actor says "this is crap" - here here.
<slomo_> hi everybody
<Lathiat> yoyo slomo
<ajmitch> hey slomo
<bob2> is it set at the annual Auckland get drunk and bush your best mate's face in festival?
<Lathiat> what, australia day?
<talios> bob2, that sounds like the hardcore punk show I was at a few months back
<talios> got a fist to the chin, and almost got a boot to head ;(
<talios> damn hardcore freaks
<Lathiat> haha
<bob2> pity they weren't straightedge
<talios> roundhouse kicks != dancing
<Lathiat> hahaha
<bob2> then they'd have preached instead of kicking.  or something.
* bob2 disables the lame joke ometer
<talios> either that or they'd be all emo and cry
<talios> but in a manly way
<slomo> haha... i hope we get xchat 2.6 for dapper :) finally some usability improvements... http://forum.xchat.org/viewtopic.php?t=1753
* jsgotangco dies at ItalianTeam wiki editing
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: massive floods?
<jsgotangco> 40 edits in less than an hour?
<ajmitch> not many
<ajmitch> I've got > 10K unread edits in my wiki folder ;)
<jsgotangco> that's collective
<ajmitch> 70MB just of wiki edits..
<jsgotangco> they've been busy updating the links because theyre unveiling a new site
<ajmitch> night all
<talios> Night
<dholbach> good night ajmitch
<bob2> adios ajmitch
<\sh> cu ajmitch
<janimo> any revu admin here?
<janimo> markuman, ping
<janimo> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=745
<janimo> I cannot access the changes files
<slomo> that's normal... don't worry
<janimo> I want to sign and upload that package
<janimo> I suppose I need tha changes file
<dholbach> debuild -S -sa -kjani@crazy.place.net should work too
<janimo> dholbach, was just going to ask you thanks :)
<dholbach> :)
<janimo> my fist sponsorship
<janimo> dholbach, so did that and just dput tha changes as with my packages?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> just debuild -S -sa -k<mailadress> and dput ubuntu bla*changes
<slomo> janimo: you have upload rights now? great :) congrats :)
<bob2> janimo: remove commented out dh_ calls in the debian/rules
<bob2> janimo: does xfce4-taskmanager really have no command line options?
<bob2> janimo: shouldnt the descriptions say xfce4? (I dunno if there's a standard for that sort of thing)
<bob2> </nitpicking>
<pef> hello
<janimo> bob2, sorry I was away
<janimo> slomo, I had upload rights before hoary, but I was a very bad andlazy motu during the breezy cycle
<janimo> bob2, well if the package name contains xfce4 I think it's ok
<slomo> janimo: oh... sorry... i didn't know that
<janimo> slomo, np :)
<janimo> I hope to be more busy from now on
<janimo> s/more busy/busier/
* mikhail^ is away: shower
<Tifa> ies
<Tifa> mav
<dholbach> bbl
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> re bddebian
<bddebian> Heya \sh
<sivang> yo bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sivang
<bmonty> hi everyone
<bddebian> Heya bmonty
<bmonty> mmm...I love this coffee :)
<bmonty> damn, I was trying to get LDAP+Kerberos login going on my laptop, and now PAM is all messed up...I can't even use sudo anymore :(
<bddebian> Eeks
<bmonty> the crappy thing is that I moved all of the old PAM config files back and it stil doesn't work
<bmonty> \sh: I marked the xemacs packages as fixed in the FTBFS lists
<\sh> bmonty: thx...I will remove all the stuff I fixed...I'm just waiting for all the syncs I requested :(
<bmonty> \sh: I think we should only update the front page, updating all of the lists for all the arches is a huge pain
<\sh> bmonty: yeah...
<bmonty> a java package should be using gcj and not jikes, correct?
* bddebian should really get back to MOTU work :'-(
<bmonty> quit slacking!
* Lathiat lights a fire next to bddebian 
<bddebian> Yeah :-(
* bmonty begins to stack explosives next to bddebian's house
<Lathiat> THERE IS NO ESCAPEEE
<bddebian> Sheesh.. Rough crowd :-)
<bddebian> I need to fix 3 more bugs... :-)
<bmonty> trying to build classpath from debian and it needs a newer version of gjdoc than ubuntu has :(
<bmonty> such a PITA to test...
<bddebian> Like lyx :-)
<bmonty> now I have to decide if I want to make my own apt repository to test a build or find something else
<chillywilly> everyone should have their own repo ;)
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly, how ya doing?
<chillywilly> ok, I guess
<bmonty> chillywilly: yeah, except now I have to waste time setting up apache on my server :(
<azeem> bmonty: you can do a deb file:/// repo, it's dead easy
<azeem> deb file:///home/mbanck/build/upload/todo/ ./
<bmonty> azeem: you can't point a pbuilder at that afaik
<azeem> pfft
<azeem> well, works with sbuild and apt-get-offline
* mikhail^ is away: hack mode.
<bddebian> wb tritium ;-)
<tritium> good morning, bddebian
<tritium> take it easy, bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
<bmonty> anyone know if there is a howto so that I can just dput files to my archive server?
<bddebian> There is a LocalAptGet wiki page
<bmonty> yeah, but that one means I dput to a local directory and then I have to rsync the package to the server
<bmonty> I want to dput directly to my server
<azeem> mini-dinstall used to do that, dunno if that is still working/maintained
<sistpoty> hi folks
<\sh> ogra: ping...keyboard works :)
<ogra> sure...
<ogra> its only usb :)
<\sh> well...now I need a sun keyboard layout file for x86 xorg ;)
<\sh> de style
<ogra> \sh, there should be one
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> don't find one
<ogra> /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/sun_vndr/usb
<ogra> /etc/X11/xkb/keymap/sun_vndr/de
<ogra> /etc/X11/xkb/rules/sun
<\sh> hmmmm
<\sh> doesn't show up in gnome keyboard switch
<ogra> i think its rather a X issue
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> let me try a reconfigure
<\sh> brb
<dholbach_> re
<cyberixae> gnunet 0.7-family package is now in Debian. So it didn't get to breezy, but maybe it will get to backports and Dapper.
<TMM> cyberixae, what's a gnunet?
<cyberixae> http://gnunet.org/
<TMM> I sort of could have expected that ;)
<TMM> cool
<TMM> is this like freenet? or is it less anal than that? security wise?
<spayne> dholbach: yo, how's it going?
<dholbach> ok :)
<dholbach> how about you?
<spayne> dholbach: still happy that i got a package into Breezy :)
<cyberixae> TMM: Could you be more specific?
<spayne> dholbach: dreading tomorrow though
<dholbach> cool :)
<TMM> cyberixae, freenet is totally paranoid about privacy, to the point where it is hard to use
<TMM> cyberixae, no search for one
<cyberixae> "no search for one"?
<TMM> you can't search freenet
<TMM> and it uses anonymous encrypted data stores
<spayne> dholbach: are there any major stoppers for Breezy?
<cyberixae> TMM: Well gnunet has search
<TMM> basically freenet nodes that just donate an X amount of harddisk space and stuff just gets on there
<TMM> you don't know what you have on your drives, and neither can you find out
<cyberixae> TMM: GNUnet does that too, unless you turn it off.
<TMM> it seems that gnunet does something similar though
<dholbach> spayne: it's enough to do still
<spayne> dholbach: is there anything simple i can help out with?
<TMM> I wonder how they managed to get searches working and keep it anonymous
<dholbach> spayne: ask around in the channel, maybe some ftbfs stuff
<dholbach> sorry, i'm quite busy atm
<hub> dholbach: I think that for gscore, going without abcp is fine
<spayne> i can imagine
<hub> dholbach: I talked to the upstream maintainer of gscore
<dholbach> abcp?
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> i remember
<dholbach> ok, super
<cyberixae> TMM: search queries are hashed so they are not plain text and they are forwarded so no-one knows the initator.
<cyberixae> TMM: (If I may simplify)
<TMM> you'd have to send it back at some point though, right?
<cyberixae> TMM: It takes the same path back
<cyberixae> TMM: Every node on the way remembers who to return the answer to
<TMM> ah, so only the first node you send it to will know, and he won't know if the next will be forwarding it again
<TMM> so the node doesn't know for *sure* that it was intended for you
<TMM> right?
<cyberixae> Yep, but the first node doesn't know either, if it is originally to you
<cyberixae> or to someone your going to forward it to.
<TMM> yeah, I meant that
<TMM> it looks a lot cleverer than freenet to me
<TMM> from what I can make out of the faq anyway
<cyberixae> TMM: I think freenet does something like that too
<TMM> although I wonder if it'll scale as bad as freenet as well :)
<bddebian> mmm Cheesesteak
<TMM> freenet didn't use to be able to do searches, perhaps it does now
<cyberixae> TMM: You can read the paper for GNUnet anonymous routing, if you want... http://gnunet.org/download/aff.ps
<TMM> cyberixae, cool
<cyberixae> TMM: Or the encoding paper... http://gnunet.org/download/ecrs.ps
<TMM> cyberixae, are you involved with gnunet or something? :)
<cyberixae> It is the most interresting one in my opinion.
<cyberixae> TMM: A bit
<\sh> ogra: keine keymap...also de und xorg pc105 laeuft soweit, halt ohne die sondertasten
<ogra> \sh, then we'll fix the missing bit :)
<cyberixae> TMM: Translated web into Finnish, collected publicdomain svg flag images from Internet for use in future guis and reported some bugs/feature requests.
<TMM> cyberixae, openclipart has all the flags right there :)
<cyberixae> TMM: Almost
<cyberixae> TMM: Most of them are from there
<TMM> cyberixae, aren't they all there?
<cyberixae> TMM: I named them after country codes so they are easy to use
<TMM> cyberixae, that's a pretty good idea :)
<cyberixae> TMM: They were missing some, which I found at Sodipodi clipart
<cyberixae> TMM: Thumbnails were one of my feature requests that got implemented.
<cyberixae> TMM: See http://gnunet.org/gnunetgtk.php3
<TMM> looks pretty
<cyberixae> TMM: The flags pictures are in SVN at https://gnunet.org/svn/gnunet-gtk/contrib/flags/
<TMM> but, personally, I think that thumbnails in a P2P aren't such a good idea
<cyberixae> TMM: They can be turned off
<TMM> due to a) security and b) pr0n
<cyberixae> Why?
<TMM> it wouldn't be a GNU app if it couldn't be turned off
<\sh> ogra: sure :)
<cyberixae> TMM: From the config file
<\sh> and now I wonder, why planet used my rss feed to spam again
<cyberixae> TMM: Not the code
<cyberixae> :-)
<TMM> well, its rather a lot easier to distribute a jpeg exploit if the clients starts loading arbitrary data from unknown sources
<cyberixae> TMM: Well the issue is still not even close to a browser and people use a browser everyday.
<hub> for Build-Depend, shall I be minimal or put everything that the configure check ?
<hub> like eg if I depend on libgtk-dev, shall I depend on libglib-dev?
<TMM> cyberixae, that is also true, but peer to peer is a bit more of a jungle than the web even
<cyberixae> TMM: Well. If I were an attacker I'd definitely use Web to attack people
<cyberixae> TMM: Not p2p
<TMM> cyberixae, well, it's not a big problem :)
<TMM> cyberixae, just a thought :)
<cyberixae> TMM: Yep.
<cyberixae> TMM: Finding shock stuff when searching for something else is also a common problem.
<cyberixae> TMM: Not actually a p2p problem or a problem that should be fought by not having thumbnails.
<cyberixae> :-/
<TMM> there's nothing you can do about it, especially on a network like gnunet
<cyberixae> TMM: Yes there are
<TMM> how so? people can just insert content under whatever keyword they want, no?
<cyberixae> TMM: People can search only namespace that are known to be safe.
<TMM> cyberixae, hey, got a dsc and an orig.tar.gz for the client and the server? I'd like to try it for a bit
<cyberixae> TMM: Global namespace is the jungle.
<cyberixae> TMM: I'm using Ubuntu, which doesn't have a 0.7-family deb yet so I compiled the SVN
<TMM> I'll look into it myself then
<cyberixae> If you want the complete SVN (includes webpages, papers and some related and not related tools and libraries) you may command "svn checkout https://gnunet.org/svn/" in a directory where you want the stuff.
<dholbach> who was andreas mussgiller again?
<dholbach> he isnt whitelisted yet
<\sh> dholbach: did u receive any sync from elmo today_
<\sh> ?
<\sh> i need to adjust again on bigger keyboards and I think always this sun is a US sun keyboard
<dholbach> \sh: dunno i didnt read every bit of breezy-changes today
<\sh> because if not, I will ask mdz or kamion to do the syncs...
<\sh> bmonty: ping...
<\sh> bmonty: classpath is not buildable?
<bmonty> \sh: the package in ubuntu doesn't build for i386
<\sh> bmonty: new package in debian eventually?
<bmonty> \sh: the new package is in debian, but needs a newer version of gjdoc to build
<bmonty> so I can't say if it builds or not
<\sh> bmonty: hmmm...chroot and new gjdoc?
<\sh> or is gjdoc in main?
<bmonty> not sure where gjdoc is, but I need to get my archive back up and running so I can do that
<bmonty> that is what I was working on before I had to go to work for awhile
<bmonty> I think sync is probably the answer, but I want to test it first
<\sh> bmonty: ok...if you need some help with that, please write an email...so i could test it tomorrow...I'm working now on the rest
<bmonty> \sh: will do, thanks
<\sh> bmonty: u r welcome :)
<siretart> rbelem_: ping
<\sh> moins siretart
<Mez> lo all
<Mez> !ping
<\sh> g'evening Mez
<siretart> huhu \sh!
<Mez> evening
<Mez> only one for a short while
<Mez> transferring some money
<\sh> Mez: what do I have to do to be an approved backports member?
<Mez> erm, not much... but just show to me that you can test things backport properly etc
<Mez> we can go over it at UBZ if you want?
<\sh> Mez: sure...
<Mez> seeing as I'm pretty busy till then anyways, and have no net access
<Mez> but, it's pretty simple, just test they work when backported
<Mez> use a pbuild :D
<\sh> Mez: *lol*
<Mez> then test it builds, if it doesnt, make it work in backported from and too... then rebuild
<Mez> and then test
<Mez> and then send to james
<\sh> sure...that's clear
<Mez> lol
<Mez> :P
<Mez> tis pretty easy
<Mez> but meh - I dont doubt nyou can do it
<\sh> I thought there are some special things to become a backports member ;)
<Mez> nah, not in your case
<Mez> normally, you'll have to prove packaging skills etc etc
<Mez> normally, as long as someone is a semi-competent motu, we'll accept them, they just need to learn the backports ropes
<\sh> Mez: ok..let's talk about it at ubz
<Mez> np
<\sh> Mez: btw...u should have a look on popcon.ubuntu.com for knowing what the users want
<Mez> kool
<\sh> it is..thx to dholbach
<hub> I have to patch configure.ac for a package to build
<hub> is that a problem to run automake?
<bmonty> hub: I don't think so...I pretty sure I've seen packages that do that
<bmonty> you have to build depend on automake
<hub> yep I do already
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bmonty> hi sistpoty
<dholbach> i'm out for a walk, bbl
<hub> is there a "Section" music in the packages?
<sistpoty> ' \sh: did you (or s.o. else) request sync for atlas3 yet?
<\sh> sistpoty: no...
<\sh> sistpoty: but I can do...
<\sh> sistpoty: i'm collecting
<sistpoty> that would be great ;)
<\sh> give me the version number of debian and if it's ok to override some ubuntu changes_
<sistpoty> ' \sh atlas3 (3.0.6-20), current ubuntu is also the debian -19, so ok to override
<\sh> sistpoty: so no ubuntuX version_
<\sh> ?
<sistpoty> exactly
<\sh> k
<\sh> tested_
<\sh> argl
<\sh> I have a new keyboard :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> which is sun...and I think all the time it's a US
<\sh> cause at office I'm using only US sun keyboards
* sistpoty doesn't like sun keyboards
<\sh> well..this one is nice...just like the old cherries
<sistpoty> the ctrl-key is really on a wrong location imo ;)
<\sh> hmm...it's left from alt :)
<\sh> but the left alt key is to small...but for that there is compose :)
<sistpoty> hm... i think of ultrasparc3?-keyboards, where it's left from alt above some other key (afaik... haven't sitten in front of these for some time ;)
<sistpoty> or even the keyboards we have at university, attached to the sun's... whatever ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: well...I have now here a sun type 6 usb german keyboard :)
<\sh> and I have to build a nice keymap with ogra
<sistpoty> w00t
<\sh> sistpoty: yeah...our company threw away new keyboards of this type...including a nice 3 button ball mouse :)
<\sh> sistpoty: also usb
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> lets see if this patch fixes vflib3
<\sh> strike...
<\sh> thx andreas jochens ;)
<siretart> hi sistpoty!
<siretart> \sh: whay kind of sun keyboard? type 5 or type 6?
<\sh> type 6 usb euro de
<\sh> 320-1281
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> I don't like them either. we have these keyboard on all sunrays at uni
<siretart> but I also have a type 5 at home. that one is feeling really good :)
<\sh> hehe...and we're throwing them away..with boxes including mice ;)
<siretart> baah
<siretart> these plastic mice without wheel?
<\sh> no...ball usb mice
<\sh> only 3 buttons
<\sh> no wheel
<\sh> slomo: next main uploader ? ;)
<sistpoty> *g*
<slomo> \sh: maybe... i'll ask for that when more mono stuff gets to main for dapper ;)
<\sh> haaha
<slomo> <Beowulf> one thing I ask EVERY Ubuntu NMUers. If you put in you Universe a recompiled version, please change Maintainer field
<slomo> <Beowulf> De:  R.A. Walker <raw@consultant.com>
<slomo> <Beowulf> Para:  jsogo@debian.org
<slomo> <Beowulf> Asunto:  Seahorse 0.7.9-4ubuntu1 bug
<slomo> hmm
<slomo> maybe we should consider this for dapper... somehow automated would be the best
<\sh> slomo: we should discuss this at ubz...but I think it's already settled
<Mez> hmm ... i thought you just changed the changelog
<siretart> slomo: the problem is that you cannot suit everyone
<siretart> slomo: if we change the maintainer field, then we will annoy the people wanting their deserved credit
<siretart> slomo: if we leave the maintainer field, we annoy some Maintainers like Beowulf
<sistpoty> iirc there were some posts on ubuntu-devel ml on this
<\sh> we should remove it...and mention it in DEBIAN.OldMaintainer ;)
<\sh> bah...I'm sarcastic
<herzi> doko: ping
<slomo> hmm
<\sh> guys...fix universeftbfs.
<siretart> \sh: my preference would be a Debian-Maintainer: field
<\sh> siretart: it would a better solution then now
<\sh> re ogra
<herzi> hi ogra
<sistpoty> iirc the conclusion from mdz was, that ubuntu cannot decide that on its own, but needs to come to an agreement with debian about it
<sistpoty> hi ogra
<bmonty> \sh: compiling classpath now
<\sh> bmonty: rock :)
<slomo> bmonty: you want to update classpath? or something else? ;)
<ogra> heya
<bmonty> slomo: testing to see if the latest debian version will build
* \sh is feeling like we're releasing today
<slomo> bmonty: should build fine... but why do you want to update it?
<bmonty> slomo: the current classpath package FTBFS
<bmonty> in ubuntu that is
<slomo> bmonty: ok... :)
<\sh> hmmm...being under pressure I can work best somehow...strange
<\sh> that means..weekend, more beer
<bmonty> \sh: ok, the latest debian version of classpath builds
<bmonty> we will have to sync gjdoc with classpath
<\sh> bmonty: ok...version number, and if the sync is ok to override ubuntu patches
<\sh> bmonty: no ways
* sistpoty is a while afk to make make food
<\sh> gjdoc is main
<bmonty> the latest classpath depends on a newer version of gjdoc than ubuntu has
<\sh> bmonty: or try to ping doko and ask him if he's ok with it, and if mdz is approving this break from UVF, FF, and CloseToReleaseToBeAfraid
<bmonty> \sh: I could try and remove the version requirement from the debian classpath package and see what happens
<\sh> bmonty: good idea :)=
<bmonty> I'm not sure I like doing that though...I think the debian maintainer probably had a reason for putting that requirement
<\sh> bmonty: I'm doing it since a couple of uploads with libjack0.100.0-dev
<\sh> downgrading to libjack0.80.0-dev
<\sh> I don't like it eather
<\sh> either even
<\sh> bah
* \sh has a strange keyboard...needs to lean to type again
<\sh> learn even
<bmonty> how can I remove a package from my mini-dinstall archive?
<\sh> bmonty: rm
<\sh> and then run the Packages.gz creation again
<bmonty> k, thanks
<bmonty> building again....
<ajmitch> morning all
<bmonty> hi ajmitch
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<TheMagus_> hi all... anyone who's good at HAL stuff in here?
<\sh> *yawn*
<herzi> how do i specify the S?? number which is prepended to the runlevel symlinks of an init script when building a package?
<bmonty> \sh: ok, classpath builds with the ubuntu gjdoc
<\sh> bmonty: rocking :)
<bmonty> \sh: sould I make a debdiff from the debian package?
<\sh> bmonty: please..and make it somewhere available
<\sh> bmonty: so I can upload for you
<bmonty> ok, let me tidy up the changelog and I'll send you a link
<\sh> bmonty: kewl
<bmonty> \sh: http://www.montynet.org/ubuntu/debdiff/classpath_0.18-5ubuntu1.debdiff
<\sh> bmonty: thx
<\sh> bmonty: that's against new debian package, right?
<bmonty> \sh: yes
<\sh> bmonty: K
<bmonty> also, there are no ubuntu changes on the current classpath package
<\sh> bmonty: no prob...source upload
<bmonty> gotta take the dog outside...be back in a few
<\sh> -58mins until universe fix ;)
<\sh> sorry -55mins until universe fix
<dholbach> re
<\sh> re dholbach
<\sh> bah again..evolution crash
<herzi> dholbach: hi
<\sh> i'm too lazy now for a backtrace
<herzi> \sh: just let bug-buddy do that for you
<\sh> herzi: no..it's only a "not responding" no real crash...
<herzi> \sh: do you try to move your sent mail to a non-existent imap account?
<herzi> okay
<\sh> herzi: but bug is already filed at upstream
<herzi> then it's different from 'my crash'
<Tonio-> hi all
<herzi> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> herzi: pong
<doko> horzi: ?
<Tonio-> dholbach: concerning your revu for wlassistant, I didn't change anything to the tarball, but it has aparently been modified whithout version change....
<dholbach> ouch
<dholbach> those upstream guys
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<Tonio-> and apparently the day i packaged, the tarball was a bit different depending on the sf download server.....
<Tonio-> certainly an update propaging.....
<dholbach> hey anrew
<dholbach> andrew :)
<\sh> headache..grmpf
<dholbach> who synced seahorse?
<\sh> sistopy?
<\sh> Von: Stefan Potyra <daemon@poleboy.de>
<\sh> Antwort an: 	ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> An: 	breezy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> dholbach: it broke?
<dholbach> sistpoty: <seb128> <Beowulf> afaik the problem is that Ubuntu's gconf2 package does not include gconf-schemas script, making seahorse fail on install, and thus not showing encrypt and sign in contextual menus for files and folders
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> sigh
<dholbach> feels like a downgrade
<ajmitch> when will libofx2 actually install?
<\sh> ajmitch: I just uploaded a fixed version today
<ajmitch> \sh: 1:0.8.0-3ubuntu7
<ajmitch> ?
<\sh> ajmitch: jups
<ajmitch> it's broken
<\sh> fck
<ajmitch> you got the Replaces wrong again :P
* ajmitch fetches source
<\sh> ajmitch: you fix...I'm too tired
<ajmitch> libofx2 should Replaces: libofx1x2
<ajmitch> since that's where the file is
<\sh> what?
<ajmitch> which Unpacking libofx2 (from .../libofx2_1%3a0.8.0-3ubuntu7_i386.deb) ...
<ajmitch> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libofx2_1%3a0.8.0-3ubuntu7_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/share/libofx/dtd/opensp.dcl', which is also in package libofx1c2
<\sh> 13th appointment with asylum
<ajmitch> same file in libofx1c2 & libofx2
<\sh> I'm sure it's in Replaces
<ajmitch> libofx2 has *no* replaces
<ajmitch> only libofx-dev does
<\sh> Oh well...I just discussed this with infinity
<ajmitch> and what did he say?
<\sh> I just asked him, if I have to set in both places a Replaces, and he said, actually this is what I understand, only in this package where the .la/.a file is replaced...so -dev
* \sh is just brainfcked 
<\sh> time to relacx
<\sh> -c
<sistpoty> re
<\sh> re sistpoty
<sistpoty> what about the issue with seahoarse?
<ajmitch> \sh: the issue is that libofx2 has extra stuff, so the libs aren't parallel installable
<dholbach> sistpoty: it uses a gconf functionality we dont have yet
<\sh> ajmitch: so my first thought was correct to replaces both packages with the lib package
<sistpoty> gna... didn't test it thoroughly enough... :(
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> well
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> good luck talking to tb though
<ajmitch> the comments in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=326989 say that yes, stuff should be moved into libofx-data
<\sh> ajmitch: .la + .a belongs to -dev
<ajmitch> yes
<dholbach> sistpoty: we'll have to revert it
<ajmitch> and /usr/share/libofx shouldn't be in libofx2 imho
<\sh> ajmitch: and it's a policy violation what debian did...leaving it in libofx* === * != -dev
<dooglus> the contents of /var/lib/apt/lists keeps vanishing.  either there's a bug, or someone's hacked my box...  can do I tell which it is?
<sistpoty> dholbach: ok... should i go for it, or will s.o. else take it?
<ajmitch> uh, why would you think that's someone hacking your box? :)
<dholbach> sistpoty: i'd appreciate it, if i didnt have to do it
<sistpoty> dholbach: k, hopefully i have the old sources left ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: so anybody else will be fine for me
<dooglus> ajmitch: 1) there's 12 hours missing from the logs in /var/log/auth.log; 2) all the files in /var/lib/apt/lists keep disappearing; 3 - I see some funny entries in auth.log from before the bit that was wiped
<dholbach> sistpoty: archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu?
<ajmitch> dooglus: fun
<dholbach> we should have a #ubuntu-security
<dholbach> :)
<dooglus> hmmm
<dholbach> the guys in there would have some shrewd ideas
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...so should we fix it the "right" way?
<dooglus> could somebody tell me the correct md5sum for /bin/bash please?
<\sh> 2shermann@shermann-laptop:~/packages/breezy/digikamimageplugins/digikamimageplugins-0.7.2$ md5sum /bin/bash
<\sh> f49e9dee8958b2460a695b1db308ebd9  /bin/bash
<\sh> breezy that is
<dooglus> thanks.  that's what my box tells me, too.
<dooglus> it's just that 'tiger' told me it was wrong.
<ajmitch> what is tiger?
<dooglus> tiger is a security checking program
<ajmitch> \sh: probably not the 'right' way :)
<\sh> ajmitch: well..let's have this fixed in a straight way ;)
<ajmitch> since the right way involves moving those shared files out of libofx2
<\sh> ajmitch: do it ;)
<ajmitch> I fear the wrath
<dooglus> I believe it's in universe, but I can't check because my apt cache files won't stick around long enough... http://www.nongnu.org/tiger/
<\sh> well...I just got blamed anyways...so write my name in it ;) dch -i >>\sh's too stupid upload<<
<\sh> I#
<\sh> I'll send an email to elmo now, with latest syncs...and that's it for today
<ajmitch> ok, bye \sh :)
<bmonty> \sh: thanks for uploading classpath
<\sh> bmonty: u r welcome
<\sh> who wanted to have atlas3 synced? slomo sistopy?
* sistpoty wanted it synced
<\sh> thx
<dooglus> one last thing - is it normal to see "localhost su[26759] : + ??? root:chris" in /var/log/auth.log?  I think it means that root is su'ing to *my* account, which is strange.
<\sh> ok..guys...going to bed
<slomo> gn8 \sh :)
<bmonty> bye \sh
<dooglus> night \sh
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh
<slomo> someone should really make theora encoding faster... 2 fps is too slow on and athlon xp 2600+...
<sistpoty> anyone with xprint knowledge here?
<dooglus> it's annoying not knowing whether the box is hacked or not - it means I can't put it on the net or update it.
<sistpoty> or general x/fonts knowledge?
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/debdiffs/xprint_0.1.0.alpha1-11_to_0.1.0.alpha1-11ubuntu1.debdiff
<bddebian> sistpoty: xprint-xorg is jacked :-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: i fixed the compile issue
<bmonty> is there a howto on making packages for kernel modules?
<sistpoty> bddebian: but there are other issues (postinst wants some dir which still refers to /usr/X11...)
<sistpoty> bddebian: and i have no plan about this :(
#ubuntu-motu 2005-10-16
<tseng> dholbach: what are the build-deps for tango?
<tseng> dholbach: it insists i dont have imagemagick
<dholbach> i uploaded a new version, which has it
<dholbach> as a build-dep
<tseng> i know you did
<tseng> its in new
<dholbach> imagemagick and libmagick6-dev
<tseng> i want to build it ymself because i am impatient
<tseng> thanks
<tseng> :D
<dholbach> it's on revu
<dholbach> you can get the source packages there
<tseng> i am too lazy for that
<dholbach> i see
* tseng hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> you will need that crazy iconnamingutils thingie too
<dholbach> :)
<tseng> got that
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> (which needs libxml-simple-perl
<tseng> yes
<sistpoty> dholbach: what version number should seahoarse have for the downgrade? (i used 0.7.8-2ubuntu1, but that would be a downgrade)
<dholbach> we'll need a funky version number as 1.2.3.is.1.2.0 or something
<sistpoty> ok... anyone to test it? (I don't even know what's not working *g*)
<mbreit> good evening!
<sistpoty> hey mbreit
<mbreit> my exams are all over now, so i have finally some time again.... so what's on top of the todo list now?
<hub> back
<sistpoty> congrats mbreit
<slomo> mbreit: do you already have the result for maths?
<slomo> mbreit: and... on the todo: UniverseFTBFS, unmet deps, bugreports :)
<mbreit> slomo: i don't think so... the math exam was on friday, so...
<slomo> mbreit: oevel is fast ;)
<sistpoty> dholbach: seahorse with funky version: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=767
<dholbach> if nobody else looks at it, i'll do it tomorrow, ok?
<sistpoty> kk
<dholbach> super
<sistpoty> i hope i got the funky version right *g*
<slomo> sistpoty: i used 1.2.3+revertedto1.2.2 for my stuff that will come tomorrow ;)
<slomo> but should be fine
<sistpoty> as long as downgrading works and afterwards uprading *g*
<slomo> that's not given with your version number...
<sistpoty> damn /me missed to add "the funky version release" to changelog *g*
<slomo> 1.2.3.1 would be less than yours
<sistpoty> gna... i knew, i
<sistpoty> +'ll get this version-stuff wrong
<sistpoty> ok, i retry ;)
<mbreit> someone working on fixing helix-player on non-amd64?
<slomo> mbreit: afaik no... go, get it ;)
<dholbach> not sure if that ever worked
<dholbach> you could consult the debian qa site
<mbreit> i'll see what i can do
<mbreit> dholbach: there is a patch on debian qa...
<hub> dholbach: I have gscore almost packaged
<dholbach> oh cool
<dholbach> hub: ROCK
<hub> that was before I reorganize all my computer room, so circa 3PM
<hub> I just disable abcp as the new upstream release is soon and I have asked the upstream maintainer to include the lib in his tarball until it is sorted out
<sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=768 <-- with slomos naming scheme now ;)
<slomo> lol? the first backports changelog entry i'm seeing :)
<sistpoty> i needed to get the sources from somewhere ;)
<slomo> doko: sorry for asking you again... :( but will eclipse be removed from pas for breezy? it builds and works fine on amd64 with this version...
<dholbach> good night guys
<slomo> gn8 dholbach
<dholbach> night sebastian
<ajmitch> bye dholbach
<mbreit> n8 dholbach
<dholbach> night andrew, moritz :)
<abarbaccia> hello all - i have a problem with a package taht i would love to fix but don't know how
<abarbaccia> anybody active?
<sistpoty> yep
<mbreit> abarbaccia: yes
<abarbaccia> a first step would be to find out what package provides mtd
<sistpoty> what package is it?
<abarbaccia> well this is what it is
<sistpoty> abarbaccia: apt-cache show mtd... then go for "source-package" field... or apt-get source mtd should work as well
<abarbaccia> whoever made the package that contains mtd (myth transcoding daemon) did it without transcode installed on their system
<abarbaccia> mtd is provided by a specific package
<abarbaccia> not sure which one that is
<abarbaccia> its probably mythtv-backend but i am not sure
<tseng> hm what?
<sistpoty> abarbaccia: do you know any binary/other file? then try dpkg -S pathtofile which should give you the package
<abarbaccia> okay
<abarbaccia> mythdvd
<abarbaccia> so i need to repackage mythdvd
<abarbaccia> someone want to give me a how-to on doing this
<tseng> this might have been intentional
<abarbaccia> no its not
<abarbaccia> i promise you
<abarbaccia> u need mtd for mythdvd to work completely
<tseng> ok i must be a fool then
<abarbaccia> if you try to run it - it returns - mtd was compiled without transcode - quitting
<abarbaccia> lol - are you the maintainer?
<tseng> we never leave out build-deps because they might be restricted or anything
<abarbaccia> well, with myth 0.17 tha twas in hoary
<tseng> (transcode is in multiverse and from marillat)
<abarbaccia> it was compiled with transcode on the system - but didn't depend on it
<sistpoty> mythdvd is in multiverse as well
<abarbaccia> im pretty sure they just grabbed these packages from the dijkastra.rit.edu source that someone in here maintains
<abarbaccia> because they had the same problem which stopped me from upgrading months ago
<tseng> i would appreciate if you ask mdz
<tseng> before changing anything
<abarbaccia> THATS who it is
<tseng> it could be an oversight.. it could not be
<tseng> transcode isnt the greatest news from a legal standpoint
<abarbaccia> how do you figure?
<sistpoty> hi Fuddl
<abarbaccia> if you dont have the divx libs or anything thats restricted theres no problem going from mpg4 to xvid
<tseng> ok
<tseng> please get a simple yes/no from mdz and id be happy to help you
<abarbaccia> alright-  is he not on right now?
<tseng> apperantly not
<tseng> he is painfully busy
<tseng> an email will do
<abarbaccia> i dont have his email
<tseng> Maintainer: Matt Zimmerman <mdz@ubuntu.com>
<tseng> its just that easy
<abarbaccia> wow
<abarbaccia> awesome
<tseng> please CC and note that I will be happy to help you with technical bits if it was an oversight
<tseng> (CC me) brandon@ubuntu.com
<tuxedo_kamen> hi everyone
<hub> what do I need for AM_PROG_LIBTOOL ?
<hub> I build-depend on automake1.9 already
<tuxedo_kamen> listen, I wanted to contribute for ubuntu, how can i?
<sistpoty> hub: probably libtool?
<sistpoty> hi tuxedo_kamen
<tuxedo_kamen> hey
<sistpoty> tuxedo_kamen: you could start with fixing packages and help out in MOTUland... maybe you could start to fix some FTBFS packages?
<abarbaccia> tseng, can we create the package now and wait for his responce
<abarbaccia> tseng i would like to learn because i do plan on helping out in mtou when i get some time in the next month
<tuxedo_kamen> o_O hum?
<tuxedo_kamen> I know nothing about that, ?I just wanted to contribute some applications to be used on ubuntu!
<sistpoty> tuxedo_kamen: how exactly do you want to contribute? package new stuff or write apps yourself?
<tuxedo_kamen> write apps
<sistpoty> hm... there was some webpage with ideas in it... BreezyGoals or s.th. anyone remembers?
<sistpoty> does anyone remember even ;
<sistpoty> )
<tseng> abarbaccia: apt-get source mythplugins
<hub> sistpoty: I already build-depend on it
<tseng> incidentally i dont see a mail from you
<hub> sistpoty: wait, I'm the moron. I forgot to rebuild the source pacakge
<hub> :-/
<sistpoty> hub: it's in libtool... but eventually you also need to do the autotools-dance again (acinclude, autoconf etc.)
<sistpoty> sdlperl - http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/debdiffs/sdlperl_1.20.3-1ubuntu6_to_1ubuntu7.debdiff anyone willing to sponsor upload?
<abarbaccia> tseng can't i just get mythdvd
<hub> sistpoty: I already regenerate all that stuff as I have to patch configure.ac
<hub> that's why it is somewhat failing
<hub> but since I forgot to regenerate the package
<hub> it failed in pbuilder
<sistpoty> tuxedo_kamen: found the page... you might wish to take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBounties
<hub> trying again
<sistpoty> hub: good luck then ;)
<hub> sistpoty: thxz
<tseng> abarbaccia: no..
<tseng> abarbaccia: mythdvd is a binary build from the source package mythplugins
<sistpoty> I'm going to bed now... gn8 altogether
<tuxedo_kamen> sistpoty, perhaps you didn't understand my question...
<bddebian> GNight sistpoty
<bddebian> OK gang, what should I work on, I've been slacking :-(
<sistpoty> hey bddebian: you could take a look at xprint's postinst (take the debdiff on UniverseFTBFS to fix the compile issue)
<sistpoty> but i'm really off now ;)
<sistpoty> gn8
<tuxedo_kamen> >_>
<tuxedo_kamen> can anyone help me, please?
<crimsun> ...with?
<tuxedo_kamen> i wanteed to know how to contribute...
<crimsun> see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/
<abarbaccia> tseng - i am confused - please explain
<abarbaccia> there are packages named mythdvd
<tseng> there are
<tseng> thats a binary, agreed?
<abarbaccia> again, confused
<tseng> ...
<abarbaccia> binary = already compiled
<tseng> yes
<tseng> good
<tseng> now as we know, a binary has to be compiled from source
<abarbaccia> right
<tseng> in this case, the source package mythplugins is compiled once
<tseng> and split into multiple binary packages
<abarbaccia> how do you know this?
<tseng> of which mythdvd is one
<abarbaccia> okay
<abarbaccia> so we're gonna get the whole mythplugin souce
<tseng> first because I know this
<abarbaccia> and only compile mythdvd
<tseng> if i didnt, i could look like this
<tseng> apt-cache show mythdvd | grep Source
<tseng> Source: mythplugins
<tseng> then apt-cache showsrc mythplugins
<tseng> no
<tseng> we are going to compile the whole mythplugins
<tseng> its all or nothing
<tseng> ubuntu doesnt work with binary packages
<abarbaccia> okay
<tseng> we work on the source package and upload that
<tseng> it is built by a dedicated builder and then put on the mirrors
<abarbaccia> but how is it broken down into multiple packages then
<tseng> we fix the source
<tseng> users get the binary
<tseng> abarbaccia: by debian/control
<abarbaccia> okay - still a little confused but i'll pick up on it as soon as we start going
<tseng> yes lets look at it
<tseng> did you get the source?
<abarbaccia> haha - yea - if you do apt-get source mythdvd - it gets mythplugins
<tuxedo_kamen> >_>
<tseng> yes
<tseng> its smart like that
<abarbaccia> cool - alright - now i have the souce
<tseng> but its good to understand the source vs binary w/o depending on that
<tseng> ok
<abarbaccia> yea
<abarbaccia> i get it now
<tseng> cd mythplugins-0.18.1
<tseng> look at debian/control
<tseng> and you will see more about the package splitting
<abarbaccia> alright
<abarbaccia> where is debian/control?
<tseng> under mythplugins-0.18.1
<tuxedo_kamen> listen, this is the third time, perhaps I am not explaining myself correctly...
<abarbaccia> alright
<tseng> tuxedo_kamen: im not sure what you want from us, if you want to be a software author be our guest
<hub> how do I avoid regenerated auto* files to be diffed ?
<abarbaccia> tseng, got it
<tseng> hub: ugh
<tuxedo_kamen> sometimes I work for random personal projects, and I wanted to offer some of them to ubuntu!
<tseng> if you want to write code you might find some ideas http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties/document_view
<tseng> we work on packaging here, though
<azeem> tuxedo_kamen: so what Free Software projects have you worked on/maintained so far?
<tseng> abarbaccia: ok
<tseng> abarbaccia: see build-depends?
<abarbaccia> tseng - i got the whole control thing - its basically telling it how to break it down
<abarbaccia> yes
<tseng> this is what you are pointing at as "not on the maintainers system"
<tseng> it really has nothing to do with the maintainers system but the chroot on the buildd
<tseng> which will have ideally only a base system and the packages listed in Build-Depends
<abarbaccia> right
<tseng> so
<abarbaccia> in this case, it has a little more, but not much - and it DOES have transcode
<tseng> right
<abarbaccia> so we need to add transcode to that list?
<tseng> should we look at the hoary version?
<abarbaccia> probably a good idea
<abarbaccia> how/were can i get a copy for me?
<tseng> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/graphics/mythdvd
<tseng> i am going to click diff.gz at the very bottom
<tseng> [mythdvd_0.17-2.diff.gz] 
<tseng> and browse through it
<tseng> it will be a diff applying the debian/ dir on top of upstream source
<tseng> make sense?
<tseng> its enough for what we want to find out
<tseng> which is to see that transcode was not in build-depeneds for hoary either
<tseng> so you are chasing the wrong tail
<abarbaccia> i just saw that
<tseng> great
<abarbaccia> but i think that when it was compiled for 0.17 it was left out of the depends also - but whoever built it had transcode installed in their chroot
<tseng> nope
<abarbaccia> ?
<tseng> i explained this already, "whoever" is an automated script that builds all packages
<tuxedo_kamen> azeem, lots. The latest ones were: a program for getting tickets for an exhibition room and a pluging for an emulator
<tseng> in a clean chroot
<tseng> things dont accidentally appear in there
<tseng> you'll have to come up with another idea
<tseng> i can give you one more thing to look at
<abarbaccia> okay
<tseng> on the packages.ubuntu.com page
<tseng> download all the dsc, orig.tar.gz and the diff.gz to the same dir as you did apt-get source
<tseng> this is the source package components from hoary
<tseng> we are going to compare them with debdiff
<tseng> make sense so far?
<abarbaccia> yea
<abarbaccia> whats debdiff
<tseng> great
<abarbaccia> the diff from the debian sources?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> its in the package 'devscripts;
<tseng> if you could install it
<abarbaccia> okay
<abarbaccia> first things first
<abarbaccia> download those three things to my source dir
<tseng> oh crap
<abarbaccia> ...
<tseng> mythdvd 0.17 was its own package
<tseng> 0.18 made the first giant mythplugins
<abarbaccia> well, thats because .
<abarbaccia> yea
<abarbaccia> what you just said
<hub> tseng: do you know how to exclude some files from the diff?
<tseng> so its pointless to debdiff
<abarbaccia> right, because its completely different
<tseng> ok another good lesson to learn here
<tseng> if you have all the source components, dsc, diff.gz, orig
<tseng> you can do dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<tseng> to unpack it
<tseng> then you can cd into that and poke around in debian/
<abarbaccia> very cool
<tseng> see if you see anything
<tseng> hub: hm
<abarbaccia> should i do that
<tseng> yes
<Kyral> How do I package something as non-native?
<abarbaccia> u just gotta give me time - i'm doing this via SSH + VNC to my myth box! lol
<tseng> abarbaccia: oh
<tseng> abarbaccia: http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=50
<tseng> :D
<tseng> VNC sucks
<tseng> be happy, use xephyr
<Kyral> FreeNX :D
<abarbaccia> pretty nifty - when i have time. i'll make the switch - u got bookmarked
<tseng> great
<mbreit> night all
<Kyral> Finally getting around to building PBuilder
<abarbaccia> tseng, okay so it says it doesnt depend on transcode either
<abarbaccia> tseng, why else would mtd give this error message?  main.o: mtd was built without transcode support. It won't do anything.
<Kyral> How long should this take...
<Kyral> I: Checking component main on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu...
<Kyral>  <---How long should this take anyway...
<crimsun> as long as it takes to download the packages.
<Kyral> yah just saw it start to flash past
<hub> tseng: I just don't want him to diff aclocal.m4
<Kyral> stabbity pbuilder
<Kyral> its trying to invoke Prelink
<tseng> abarbaccia: you are certain there was no problem before?
<tseng> abarbaccia: and there is no upstream code change?
<abarbaccia> yes i am absolutly positive
<abarbaccia> i've made about 15 of these boxes
<abarbaccia> all with hoary
<abarbaccia> breezy followed suite - everything works - minus the mtd without transcode
<tseng> abarbaccia: and there is no upstream code change? ...
<tseng> seriously, i am pretty sure you are barking up the wrong tree
<tseng> please investigate further and get back to me
<abarbaccia> tseng - how bout this
<tseng> there is seemingly no change in the package
<abarbaccia> we compile on my system with mtd and transcode
<abarbaccia> if it works, then it works
<abarbaccia> we save the package and when mdz gives the final word, we go from there?
<tseng> you are still not understanding
<tseng> if you want to make a change, the packages on your system are absolutely irrelevant
<tseng> if you want to add a build-dep, add a build-dep
<abarbaccia> well in mythtv-users they are saying if you build the package mythplugins without --enable-transcode it will do that
<tseng> but your test sounds fair enough
<abarbaccia> alright
<slomo> transcode build-depend will move the package to multiverse if it isn't already
<abarbaccia> so now i have the source
<tseng> um
<tseng> no one users --enable-transcode
<tseng> afaict
<tseng> could *that* have anything to do with this?
<tseng> i would think so
<abarbaccia> what do you mean
<abarbaccia> slomo, it is in multiverse
<tseng> please look at debian/rules
<tseng> where configure is called
<tseng>     $(CCVARS) ./configure --prefix=/usr --enable-opengl --disable-mythgame --disable-mythphone --enable-mythgallery --enable-mythmusic --enable-mythbrowser --enable-aac --enable-fftw --compile-type=debug
<abarbaccia> shoot- so did that change is the question
<tseng> it doesnt call it in 0.17 either
<tseng> i asked you to look at this sort of thing
<abarbaccia> but maybe configure is different now that its a different package
<abarbaccia> i am really new to this whole thing
<tseng> it very well may be
<tseng> which would make alot more sense than phantom packages appearing in a chroot
<abarbaccia> lol
<tseng> and then disappearing in the breezy cycle
<tseng> :)
<abarbaccia> okay - so lets take this path
<tseng> have you mailed mdz
<abarbaccia> yes
<tseng> hm i thought you would copy me
<tseng> ok
<bddebian> Hmm, is libxp-dev broken?
<abarbaccia> sorry
<abarbaccia> so i changed the rules
<tseng> ok so
<tseng> both configure scripts default transcode to "no"
<abarbaccia> which is probably different from before - so that owuld make all the difference right ther
<tseng> i did say both
<abarbaccia> oh
<abarbaccia> but the question is - the 0.17 package - did it have --enable-transcode in the rules?
<tseng> no
<tseng> ive said this also
<Kyral> how do I make a non-native package?
<tseng> now let me ask you this to be sure
<tseng> you installed mythdvd from hoary from archive.ubuntu.com
<abarbaccia> yes
<tseng> or from mdz's home or somewhere else?
<abarbaccia> only straight ubuntu sources
<abarbaccia> from archive.ubuntu.com
<tseng> ok then im failing to see what you are talking about
<abarbaccia> i'm confused because this was not a problem with the hoary build
<tseng> im confused too
<tseng> but ive been over every part of the package with you
<tseng> agree?
<abarbaccia> you would know better than i would - but yes, it seeems like nothing has changed on the packaging end
<abarbaccia> but i know that it works because there are plenty of people that use it
<tseng> if you can find something, id be happy to translate it into the package with you
<abarbaccia> if we use --enable-transcode and build this package and it works...
<tseng> but breezy is very close to closing
<tseng> im sure it does
<tseng> but thats a question for mdz imo
<tseng> i dont like to make big changes to other peoples packages w/o a quick nod
<bddebian> doko_: You around?
<abarbaccia> well, could you show me how to build it now and we won't do anything with it unless he says okay?  you say he's busy so he probably doesn't want to be bothered with repackaging
<azeem> it's 2:40 AM in germany
* azeem should go to sleep
<tseng> abarbaccia: ok
<bddebian> azeem: So WTH are you doing up? ;-)
<azeem> mopac!
<azeem> and it's all your fault!
<bddebian> Heh, are you serious?
<tseng> abarbaccia: from the top of the source dir
<tseng> abarbaccia: dch -i
<tseng> this will give you $EDITOR
<tseng> probably nano
<azeem> latest mopac only compiles with gcc-3.2, which everybody dropped by now
<tseng> write a changelog entry for your changes
<tseng> save and quit
<bddebian> azeem: Oh man :-(
<tseng> then dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<azeem> well, compiles but probably generates wrong code, but oh well
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> that will give you a source package
<tseng> drop the -S and it will build a binary
<bddebian> azeem: Hey, you don't happen to know Ada do you? :-)
<azeem> no
<tseng> id prefer you build it with pbuilder
<abarbaccia> dch not found!! tseng
<bddebian> abarbaccia: apt-get install devscripts
<tseng> apt-get install devscripts
<tseng> bddebian: YHARRRRRRRRRRRRRRr
<tseng> bddebian: hugs
<bddebian> :-)
<Kyral> grr.
<Kyral> Why does it keep saying its a Debian Native package?S
<ajmitch> Kyral: missing orig.tar.gz
<hub> Kyral: wromg .orig tarball
<ajmitch> or at least one with the wrong name
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<Kyral> I've completely annilated the Build-ArchDep things
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<Kyral> iiAck I think i deleted the .orig.tar.gz
<Kyral> by accident
<ajmitch> that is not a wise thing to do
<Kyral> I mean I have the sourceball that it CAME from
<Kyral> ie, the thing I invoked dh_make on
<abarbaccia> tseng, fakeroot command not found
<tseng> apt-get install fakeroot?
<tseng> :P
<abarbaccia> im just gonna try before i ask from now on
<abarbaccia> lol
<tseng> also a good idea is apt-get install build-essential dpkg-dev
<bddebian> Good plan :-)
<tseng> abarbaccia: apt-cache search is your friend
<abarbaccia> tseng, unmet build dependencies - should i install them (they are the -dev packages)
<tseng> apt-get build-dep mythplugins
<bddebian> abarbaccia: apt-get build-dep ...
<Kyral> ....would it complain if the major version changed
* bddebian shuts up now
<tseng> Kyral: yes.
<Kyral> okay.
<tseng> well not complain
<tseng> but fail to do anything useful
<Kyral> Then I should change the name of the tarball to the major version now?
<tseng> the tarball name should match the changelog
<doko_> bddebian: ?
<tseng> fix one.
<Kyral> grr. stop making native packages!
<bddebian> doko: Do you know Ada?
<doko> bddebian: send me an email with your question
<Kyral> Jeez, why don't it upload the orig.tar.gz
<abarbaccia> tseng, his response: Please file a bug in Malone, thanks.
<tseng> works for me
<abarbaccia> is that a "its okay to fix it yourself"
<tseng> im not sure what you asked him
<abarbaccia> whats your email
<abarbaccia> i'll foward to you
<tseng> brandon@ubuntu.com
<tseng> i can help you make a patch
<tseng> and you can attach it to the bug
<tseng> ok..?
<abarbaccia> sure!
<abarbaccia> lets find out if it works first tho
<tseng> i will help you make the patch
<tseng> you will find out if it works while i am nicely sleeping
<tseng> here we go
<tseng> in mythplugins source
<tseng> edit debian/control
<tseng> add transcode to build-depends
<tseng> edit debian/rules
<tseng> add  --enable-transcode to configure
<tseng> dch -i
<tseng> make that changelog
<tseng> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<tseng> cd ..
<ajmitch> doko: I'm running into the zope3 bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=332845 here, are we going to get 3.1.0-2 ?
<bddebian> Shouldn't -Werror stop this damn thing from dumping out on warnings?
<tseng> debdiff myth...0.8-...dsc myth...0.8-newone...dsc
<doko> ajmitch: yes
<tseng> there is your patch
<ajmitch> ok
<abarbaccia> tseng where do i submit a bug and how do i upload the patch?
<tseng> launchpad.net/malone
<abarbaccia> okay
<abarbaccia> and finally which is the patch - the .diff correct?
<tseng> no
<tseng> you did debdiff?
<abarbaccia> yes
<tseng> if it looks ok
<abarbaccia> source.changes
<tseng> redirect it to a file
<abarbaccia> oh
<abarbaccia> alright
<tseng> debdiff blah blah > foo.diff
<abarbaccia> any conventional naming?
<tseng> thats what you want to attach
<tseng> i would say.. mythplugins-0.180transcode.diff
<tseng> just me
<tseng> nothing special
<abarbaccia> alright great
<abarbaccia> thanks for your help
<abarbaccia> and how do i see if this patch works
<abarbaccia> and how do i patch my packages?
<tseng> you already made the changes to the package
<Kyral> this is very irritating
<tseng> the diff is just for mdz
<abarbaccia> well, to the source correct?
<tseng> yes
<Kyral> I have half a mind to wipe out the debian dir and remake it
<abarbaccia> i need to rebuild the package
<tseng> to build it do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot in the source package
<tseng> it will build binaries
<abarbaccia> then just dpkg -i ?
<tseng> sure
<abarbaccia> awesome
<abarbaccia> lemme upload the patch and we are golden
<abarbaccia> thanks for all your help / teaching
<tseng> test first upload second
<Kyral> Okay, new try
<Kyral> gonna smack down the current build and start dh_make from scratch :D
<tseng> abarbaccia: do you use ivtv btw
<Kyral> finally got it to upload the orig.tar.gz
<Kyral> .../me stabs lintain
<Kyral> thing picked up on a case error. I put "All" as arch in control instead of "all"
<abarbaccia> tseng, yes i do
<abarbaccia> tseng, you need help with it?
<tseng> abarbaccia: i have used it off and on a long time
<abarbaccia> tseng, its come a very long way
<tseng> abarbaccia: 0.4.0 isnt treating me very nicely
<abarbaccia> why do you need to use such a bleeding edge version?
<abarbaccia> what chipset/card are you using
<tseng> because its the latest stable according to the website
<abarbaccia> ??
<abarbaccia> hold on
<tseng> i have a pvr 250
<abarbaccia> thats what i'm using
<abarbaccia> but i use 0.2.x
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> ill probably get that later
<abarbaccia> wait - 0.4 isnt even out
<Kyral> .....can someone with REVU admin move my orig.tar.gz over to the fixed submission I made...
<abarbaccia> you mean 0.3
<tseng> abarbaccia: ...
<tseng> abarbaccia: hang on
<abarbaccia> tseng - not to plug, but this'll work for you http://www.abarbaccia.com/content/view/19/31/
<tseng> abarbaccia: http://www.ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page
<tseng>     ivtv stable version 0.4.0 released (ChangeLog). This replaces the old 0.2.0 stable release. A new 0.4 branch is opened in the Subversion repository. The Subversion trunk now contains the 0.5 unstable series.
<abarbaccia> wow
<tseng> i know how to install it
<tseng> but it flakes out
<tseng> ill look another day, its late
<abarbaccia> alright - well i would use the 0.2 that i link to off my site
<abarbaccia> yea
<Kyral> Linda is being stupid...
<abarbaccia> nite - thanks again for the help
<tseng> np
<ajmitch> gar
<ajmitch> people that reopen bugs I confirmed are fixed..
<Kyral> mitch can you help me
<Kyral> this is realllly trying my patience...
<ajmitch> with what? you haven't asked any real questions lately
<Kyral> No, I have the package perfect
<Kyral> I even got the orig.tar.gz to upload
<Kyral> 'cept I made a typo in the control that causes lintain to freak on REVU
<crimsun> (lintian?)
<Kyral> yah yah
<Kyral> I can't spell without tab-complete
<Kyral> anyway, I fixed it and reuploaded. Now Linda complains that the orig.tar.gz isn't there...
* Kyral slams his head into the table
<tseng> did you dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa?
<Kyral> yup
<tseng> or just -S
<Kyral> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot
<tseng> rock on
<Kyral> then dput as normal
<Kyral> and it didn't decide to upload the orig like it did the first time...
<Kyral> Is there a way I can manually put my orig in the dir?
<Kyral> or can someone move it from the one at 21:30 to the new one
<Kyral> I think I'm gonna go bed soon....long day...
<Kyral> sorry for my bitching ;P
<bddebian> Any amd64 folks awake? :-)
<Kyral> a tired AthlonXP folk, does that count?
<Kyral> ;P
<bddebian> Kyral: Nah, go to bed :-)
<Kyral> In an hour...
<Kyral> I'll battle REVU tomarrow ;P
<Kyral> Now I'm just screwing with my GNOME Theme :D
<bipolar> bddebian, ping
<bddebian> Yo
<bob2> bddebian: I don't see that bug report about the lyx xml thing?
<bipolar> bddebian, just want to thank you for your work on gnucash. works great :)
<bddebian> bipolar: Really?
<bddebian> bob2: It was on Malone and I closed it.
<bob2> bddebian: I thought you folks sent patches for things like that to Debian?
<bddebian> bob2: I don't know that it would work with Debian but I would be glad too
<Lathiat> bob2: there will probably be a mass patch sending effort post breezy
<bddebian> Lathiat: Did you ever try any more with boson-base?
<Lathiat> bddebian: no
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I've constantly asked for a mass patch sending, but it never happens :P
<bipolar> bddebian, yep. back up and running after upgrading from horry
<bddebian> bipolar_ZzZzzz: Cool, thanks
<hub> ajmitch: still alive?
<ajmitch> yes
<hub> I have a C# exception for autopano-sift and I have no idea what is going on
<hub> and I would like to have that fixed for the ubuntu package
<hub> upstream hasn't replied yet
<hub> http://pastebin.com/389816
<hub> ajmitch: it does it with either my build or the pre-build cli binaries
<hub> :-/
<ajmitch> I'll have a quick look
<hub> ok thx
<hub> if you can point me in the direction
<hub> maybe shoudl just learn mono
<hub> it would simplier if I could just gdb....
<ajmitch> I guess you should just check what parameters are getting passed through
<ajmitch> #mono on irc.gimp.org is probably a far better help than I can be
<LaserJock> is bddebian alive?
<crimsun> asleep.
<bddebian> Yo
<ajmitch> LaserJock: omnipotent beings like bddebian don't sleep
<bddebian> Heh
<whiprush> wow, I see dholbach didn't take too long to package up tango.
<ajmitch> he probably had the inside word
<whiprush> so dude at the summit we watched jimmac whip up a tango icon
<whiprush> it was amazing.
<ajmitch> tseng said andyfitz was showing some stuff off at UDU
<whiprush> yeah
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Trashcan> gahhhhhh tell me
<Trashcan> sorry.. wrong window
<hub> ajmitch: thx
<hub> ajmitch: last time they were not really helpful
<\sh> moins guys
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<\sh> ajmitch: did u fix libofx?
<\sh> ;)
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> I had to go to work :P
<\sh> bah...and it looks like that I'm getting a cold
<\sh> ajmitch: k...then I will do it later at office
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> you deserve the glory of another upload ;)
<ajmitch> well I did fix it
<ajmitch> I just didn't test it :)
<\sh> ajmitch: so replaces to Package: libofx2...and trying to move /usr/share/libofx/ to libofx-data?
<\sh> ajmitch: ok...then I leave it to you.
* ajmitch didn't do the package splitting
<\sh> I'm really in upload mood ,-)
<ajmitch> since it'd introduce a new binary package
<\sh> I'm not really in upload mood even
<ajmitch> ok, fresh & tasty bzr 0.1 debs, thanks to bob2
<\sh> wow...so many package updates..linux-image, Thunderbird, ssh ... I hope they don't break my system
<ajmitch> yeah
<siretart> according to changelogs they look sane..
<siretart> ajmitch: can we have them in breezy?
<siretart> morning folks
<\sh> moins siretart
<ajmitch> siretart: of course we will
<ajmitch> siretart: it's a sabdfl request to get them in
<siretart> w00t! :)
<ajmitch> so thank the bzr developers for working hard to get 0.1 ready in time for breezy
<siretart> great. now searching breakfest
<bob2> jbailey: you might want to look at my 0.1 packages for your snapshots
<\sh> i had mine
<ajmitch> bob2: they install clean, I'll upload asap
<bob2> yay
<bob2> they're even lintian and linda clean now ;)
<ajmitch> thanks to overrides ;)
<bob2> well, yeah, I blame lifeless
<bob2> who's in here, dang
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> yay my debian chroot is playing nasty
<ajmitch> or more correctly, the nz debian mirror I was using turned bad
<bob2> hah
<\sh> well..I think it's time to shower...and hitting slowly the office
<bob2> my isp seems to run the only non-broken .au mirror, fortunately
<ajmitch> never trust servers run by telecom :)
<bob2> tho it still lages
* bob2 doesn't even trust telstra with his phone
* ajmitch waits for bzr selftest to pass.. :)
<bob2> hah
<bob2> it takes 9seconds on my desktop, but about 97 years on my laptop
<ajmitch> dput running to debian...
<ajmitch> we'll see how long it takes to get to incoming
<bob2> yay, thanks a lot
<bob2> remind me to buy you a beer at lca :)
<ajmitch> right, so you definitely have to come to LCA now :)
<ajmitch> bob2: tell me when you get the mail from the upload
<bob2> my mail server is down today, sadly
<bob2> so I'll just be obsessively reloading http://incoming.d.o
<ajmitch> yeah, that's what I'm doing :)
<lifeless> bob2: xif your liam server
<lifeless> win 17
<bob2> wtf
<siretart> okay, /me off to uni. cu guys!
<\sh> siretart: hf
<bob2> ajmitch: in
<bob2> (thanks again!)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> will ask for sync asap
<\sh> CaiN_SA: that will be hard to learn packaging and releasing on the 13th
<CaiN_SA> i know sh
<CaiN_SA> sh you see the problem
<\sh> so u have to learn fast :) or u tell us what package u need
<ajmitch> why do you
<ajmitch> sorry
<ajmitch> why do you need to have something out the same day as breezy?
<ajmitch> and why are you just starting now? :)
<\sh> anyways..I'll have to rush to office first, before I'm available to answer any questions :) cu in at least 60 mins
<CaiN_SA> sh dude ne
<CaiN_SA> ill tell you the problem
<CaiN_SA> i have to make : impi-artwork-usplash
<ajmitch> ah
<CaiN_SA> but i can do this
<ajmitch> you're one of the impilinux devs?
<CaiN_SA> i just use the kubuntu's stuff
<CaiN_SA> yes ajmitch
<CaiN_SA> but when i last used the build commands
* ajmitch was wondering when we'd see some around :)
<CaiN_SA> it said : $dir/DEBIAN not found
<CaiN_SA> ajmitch, im the only one ;p
<ajmitch> how were you trying to build it?
<CaiN_SA> erm
<CaiN_SA> lemme try and remember
* ajmitch would have thought there'd be a few more..
<CaiN_SA> dpkg -b
<ajmitch> use dpkg-buildpackage
<CaiN_SA> ah
<ajmitch> and work from the kubuntu-artwork source package
<CaiN_SA> see the tutorials on the net sais to use dpkg -b
<CaiN_SA> yeh
<CaiN_SA> then i dont have to make a control file etc
<CaiN_SA> i just edit it
<ajmitch> only if you were trying to manually reassemble a binary package  :)
<ajmitch> you really want to modify the kubuntu-artwork control file, etc
<ajmitch> so that you get the package names correct
<bob2> what is "impilinux", anyway?
<CaiN_SA> erm lol
<CaiN_SA> yeh ajmitch
<CaiN_SA> impilinux is a south african flavour of ubuntu
<CaiN_SA> it belongs to mark
<ajmitch> bob2: http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=631 :)
<CaiN_SA> thus ubuntu and i work for the same person
<ajmitch> well a lot of us ubuntu devs don't work for canonical :)
<bob2> CaiN_SA: you're a paid developer on impilinux?
<CaiN_SA> yes
<CaiN_SA> bob2, only reason i asked you so much is because the problems where ubuntu specific
<ajmitch> CaiN_SA: you have a source package to work from now?
<CaiN_SA> ya
<CaiN_SA> had one all the time
<CaiN_SA> didnt know how to get it to build
<ajmitch> right :)
* CaiN_SA wipes dpkg-b from his knowledge
<lifeless> CaiN_SA: welcome to the ubuntu family then :)
<CaiN_SA> thanks lifeless
<mbreit> good morning!
<mbreit> someone with an up-to-date x86 pbuilder in here?
<ajmitch> how up-to-date do you need?
<mbreit> about 2:00 GMT ;)
<mbreit> (or newer of course)
<ajmitch> I can update now, what do you need tested?
<mbreit> just an apt-get install helix-player and look if it still throws some errors...
<mbreit> i should have fixed that but since i have no x86 pbuilder, i can't test it
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> why would I need to do that in pbuilder then? :)
<mbreit> because the error only occurs when there's no mozilla or firefox installed ;)
* ajmitch has a separate chroot for that stuff
<bob2> sbuild 4 lyf
<mbreit> a chroot is good as well (as long as there is no mozilla AND no mozilla plugins)
<ajmitch> bob2: yeah, I should set that up :)
<crimsun> rawr.
<ajmitch> hey crimsun
<mbreit> ajmitch: important is that /usr/lib/mozilla[-firefox] /{plugins,components} does not exist
<crimsun> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> mbreit: it installed fine
<mbreit> ajmitch: fine, thanks!!
<\sh> re
<\sh> wow...nice...I just got a d-link airplus g+ pcmcia wlan card as a present
<\sh> which is working on this nifty nc6000
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> madwifi?
<CaiN_SA> guys i have a hp nx 8220 here but the ubuntu installer doesnt run
<CaiN_SA> what can i do
<bob2> "doesn't run"?
<CaiN_SA> i need ubuntu on yesterday
<CaiN_SA> yes
<CaiN_SA> screen goes blank
<bob2> you need to provide a lot more detail than that
<CaiN_SA> but
<bob2> the installer doesn't start at all?
<CaiN_SA> i can see everything before it
<CaiN_SA> yes
<CaiN_SA> screen just goes off
<bob2> no
<CaiN_SA> just after all those hardware scans
<bob2> dude
<mbreit> hey \sh
<bob2> you need to provide actual unambiguous detail
<bob2> ie what screens do you go through?
<CaiN_SA> like what
<bob2> where does it stop?
<CaiN_SA> hold
<bob2> what's the last thing it says?
<CaiN_SA> lemme look
<bob2> what does the wiki say about your hardware?
<Treenaks> how does it go off? (in one go, flickering, fading?)
<\sh> ajmitch: wlan0 looks like...I have to check...
<bob2> does noapic/acpi=off help?
<bob2> what does google say?
<ajmitch> there's a report on the LaptopTestingTeam page from janimo
<ajmitch> no issues listed there tho
<CaiN_SA> 1. even with acpi it does it
<CaiN_SA> 2. last thing it sais : starting installation system
<crimsun> sweet! dpkg-deb: building package `transcode' in `../transcode_1.0.1-0.0ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
<bob2> and noapic? and you're sure the CD is correct?
<CaiN_SA> yescs is finer
<CaiN_SA> noapic doens help
<CaiN_SA> cant see problems on google
<CaiN_SA> impi live cd works on it tho
<bob2> you ran the "verify cd" stage of the installer and it went fine?
<CaiN_SA> erm
<CaiN_SA> it sais : starting installer
<CaiN_SA> then it goes blank
<CaiN_SA> or starting installation or sumthing
<CaiN_SA> it goes past it to fast to see
<bob2> dude
<bob2> go verify the cd first
<mbreit> \sh: i saw that you uploaded a new version of ickle some days ago... but I think that did not fix the unmet deps... did you see my fix for that on the unmet deps wiki-page?
<CaiN_SA> bob2,
<CaiN_SA> how i get there
<CaiN_SA> if i cant see anything
<bob2> CaiN_SA: verify the cd using another Linux system then
<CaiN_SA> it works on another pc
<CaiN_SA> i used that cd 1000000000x times
<bob2> so you have checked it?
<CaiN_SA> yes
<CaiN_SA> installed it on other pc yesterday
<bob2> you checked the md5sum of the .iso and the cd?
<CaiN_SA> ok right
<CaiN_SA> i used that same cd just now
<CaiN_SA> and i works
<CaiN_SA> just that pc
<CaiN_SA>  that gives problems
<bob2> so that's a "no"?
<CaiN_SA> urg
<CaiN_SA> bob2, while its getting the md5
<CaiN_SA> you know how ubuntu makes mountpoints etc for memory sticks etc ?
<bob2> same as every other modern distribution
<CaiN_SA> cos my systems oneswent off
<CaiN_SA> and i want to know what got removed
<bob2> hal + udev + gnome-volume-manager
<CaiN_SA> ah
<bob2> install ubuntu-desktop
<CaiN_SA> err no
<CaiN_SA> impi = kde
<CaiN_SA> ill just look for kde version
<CaiN_SA> but thx nways
<bob2> kde presumably has some equivalent C++ monstrosity
<CaiN_SA> haha
<lifeless> bob2: NOTHING is equivalent to kde's C++ monstrosities
<ajmitch> thankfully
<dholbach> hey everybody!
<mbreit> hey daniel!
<dholbach> moritz, how are you?
<mbreit> dholbach: fine... all my exams are finally over... so i have finally some time for ubuntu...
<dholbach> YES! :)
<dholbach> i saw you were already busy on UniverseFTBFS
<crimsun> right in time for the final rush, too :)
<CaiN_SA> bob2, the md5sum looks fine, the live cd does the same thing tho
<mbreit> dholbach: i tried to build helix-player on amd64... after one and a half hour i finished it and realized that it won't run on amd64 (it's not yet officialy been ported...) and i can't fix that.... ;)
<dholbach> yeah, no problem, at least the i386 folks are happy :)
<\sh> btw
<\sh> Please request all syncs directly from elmo...he told me, that he would  like to have all syncs from the requester
<\sh> -er+or
<mbreit> \sh: did you get my line about ickle?
* ajmitch has requested a sync from elmo
<ajmitch> I hope he gets it in asap :)
<\sh> mbreit: hmmm..no that I remember
<mbreit> \sh: i saw that you uploaded a new version of ickle some days ago... but I think that did not fix the unmet deps... did you see my fix for that on the unmet deps wiki-page?
<Tonio-> morning
<\sh> mbreit: no...I'll check
<mbreit> \sh: i did not upload the fix because i consider the way i fixed it "really broken", but it works ;))
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> -Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4), libicq2000-dev (>= 0.3.2), libsigc++-dev (>= 1.0.0), libgtkmm-dev
<\sh> +Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4), libicq2000-dev (= 0.3.2-3ubuntu1), libsigc++-dev (>= 1.0.0), libgtkmm-dev
<mbreit> that's because it depends against exactly that version of libicq2000
<\sh> why can't we loosen then build-deps to something >= 0.3.2-3
<\sh> oh ok
<ajmitch> because ickle deserves to be taken out back & shot
<mbreit> \sh: it will not work with 0.3.2-3ubuntu2 or something... THAT's what is broken ;)
<mbreit> ajmitch: it's not only ickle but it's debian maintainer... grrr
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> we should take care about this shit after breezy ;)
<mbreit> \sh: so should i just upload that broken fix? i mean... then it's at least installable and working ;)
<\sh> mbreit: do it :)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: http://lca2006.linux.org.au/register/ :)
<\sh> ah you have upload rights *g* I just build and test the stuff and was ready to sponsor your upload *g*
<mbreit> I'll do it this evening... I have to go now... cya later
* \sh needs some rest 
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, woooo
<jsgotangco> checking
<sivang> Morning MOTUs
<ajmitch> morning sivang
<sivang> hey ajmitch , how are you?
<ajmitch> I'm good, how are you?
<sivang> ajmitch: fine, tired, I've realized I need to read to end the policy, not just parts that look "important" to me, in order to be able to MOTU a bit :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<janimo> markuman, ping
<dholbach> Riddell: ping
<Tonio-> dholbach: what would you add to the rules files if a qmake command is need for compilation ?
<Treenaks> qmake?1
<Tonio-> Treenaks: okay but what about the synthax ? would you have an example please ?
<bob2> Tonio-: the build target isn't magic
<bob2> Tonio-: just put whatever steps in there that you'd run if you were typing them in to the terminal manually
<bob2> (if you don't know how to build it manually yet, you shouldn't be packaging it;)
<ajmitch> bob2: so when are you going to sign up for hard work & slave labour in the MOTU gang?
<bob2> hehe
<Tonio-> bob2: before make ./configure && make && make install I simply have to perform a "qmake netgo-dev.pro"
<ajmitch> Tonio-: then put that it
<ajmitch> s/it/in/
<bob2> Tonio-: then just put that on the line above ./configure
<Tonio-> using a cdbs patch I assume :)
<bob2> no
<bob2> the build: target literally just lists the steps you need to run to build it
<Tonio-> bob2: maybe I should have said that before : I know what to do in a normal case, but if I use cdbs....
<bob2> Tonio-: a, you need to hook into cdbs then
<bob2> I guess common-configure-arch
<Tonio-> okay I'l have a look
<Tonio-> bob2: thanks
<bob2> hm, tho none of the hooks look obviously correct
<ajmitch> reason #862 to love cdbs :)
<bob2> how widespread is cdbs among things packaged by motu?
<ajmitch> fairly widespread
<tseng> bob2: i would venture to say that a majority of gnome stuff uses cdbs
<tseng> bob2: on account of it taking about 5 minutes to do something useful
<bob2> yeah
<ajmitch> night all
<bob2> adios
<Riddell> dholbach: pong
<dholbach> Riddell: i suppose you were to busy to track down the rpath stuff on amd64? would you agree  that's it rather a problem with qt/kde/their-buildsystem?
<dholbach> because it occured in quite a couple of packages
<Riddell> dholbach: wibble.  my lovely new amd64 decided to die last night
<Riddell> so I'm now in a process of mourning
<dholbach> OUCH
* dholbach consoles Riddell 
<dholbach> how did you break it?
<jbailey> bob2: Will do.  What changed?
<bob2> jbailey: builds he man page, runs the test suite
<ajmitch> jeff! :)
* ajmitch isn't *quite* asleep yet ;)
<jbailey> bob2: Cool!
<jbailey> Heya Andrew! =)
<ajmitch> jbailey: bzr is in debian & ubuntu now\
<bob2> jbailey: (ajmitch uploaded 0.1 to debian earlier)
<ajmitch> (0.1, that is)
<ajmitch> bob2: and I uploaded to breezy
<Riddell> dholbach: no idea, one minute it was happily compiling away the next dead to the world never to be recovered
<bob2> oh, rock
<jbailey> ajmitch: Lovely.  Was bzr ACCEPTed?
<ajmitch> jbailey: yes
<Riddell> I don't know if it's the power supply or what that's broken
<dholbach> Riddell: you should talk to mvo... he had nearly the same amd64 woes
<jbailey> ajmitch: Thanks
<ajmitch> happy to help
<jbailey> bob2: Cool.  I'll take a look at that as soon as I'm finshed ubuntu-docs
<ajmitch> ok, now I should depart for sleep, farewell
<jbailey> g'n =)
<ajmitch> ah, kinnison announced it..
<bob2> dinstall's in like 8hours, right?
<dholbach> ajmitch: how late is it at your place?
<ajmitch> all uploads for dapper will be via launchpad, so MOTUs must have a launchpad account with their gpg key on it
<ajmitch> dholbach: midnight
<koke> hey, I've just seen the motu ruby team :)
<koke> rocks ;)
<ajmitch> hye koke
<dholbach> koke: ! :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: then sleep tight :)
<koke> I'm now working full-time with rubyonrails, so I guess I'll be able to help there
<dholbach> koke: then add yourself to the team's list... they will be delighted
<bob2> does rails include implicit form validation?
<koke> bob2: more or less.. yep
<koke> http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActiveRecord/Validations/ClassMethods.html
* bob2 is becoming more and more convinced that all web toolkits just converge on zope
<koke> I don't like rubygems at all but should be possible to convert gems to debs
<koke> bob2: but I learnt rails in one week and I can't do anything with zope :)
<koke> maybe it's a doc problem :)
<bob2> yeah, true
<bob2> zope3, anyway.  zope2 is too scary to use.
<koke> anyway, zope templates scare me :P
<bob2> they're scary, but it really is the most elegant way I've seen to do templating
<CaiN_SA> which window manager is best to use
<CaiN_SA> when you want to run an app
<CaiN_SA> from startx and still have support for window management
<Treenaks> CaiN_SA: you can start gnome-session from there
<Treenaks> or metacity
<Treenaks> or ANY other window manager you like
<CaiN_SA> ya but say i use metacity
<janimo> Treeenaks, did you get around to trying the sound on resume thing?
<CaiN_SA> i want to run something like this : startx metacity programtorinit
<Treenaks> janimo: oh sh.t.. forgot
<janimo> Treenaks np
<Treenaks> CaiN_SA: create a .xinitrc (.xsession?)
<janimo> I haven't debuuged it yet
<CaiN_SA> ya Treenaks just remembered
<Diablo_D3> hey all.
<Diablo_D3> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/realtime-lsm/+bug/2092/
<Diablo_D3> I wonder if that could be possibly considered a very very very very bad bug that needs to be fixed before release ;)
<dholbach> if it doesnt just work, i daresay we won't have the manpower.
<dholbach> bbl
<crimsun> score!
<Diablo_D3> crimsun is no longer a virgin?
* Diablo_D3 runs
<crimsun> dpkg-deb: building package `wxvlc' in `../wxvlc_0.8.4-svn20050920-3+hal0ubuntu1_amd64.deb'.
<Diablo_D3> wxvlc didnt build on amd64 before?
<crimsun> god no
<Diablo_D3> hah
<Diablo_D3> btw
<Diablo_D3> ubuntu should recommend sennhieser headphones
<Diablo_D3> seriously
<Diablo_D3> best headphones I've ever owned
<crimsun> not grados? ;)
<Diablo_D3> grados have been described as too... in your face.
<Diablo_D3> and sonys are just like sennhiesers, but way too much bass
<Diablo_D3> but hey, for $100, my hd 250 pros are awesome
<Diablo_D3> and they have a replaceable cord <3
<Diablo_D3> (I have a habit of breaking the coord on headphones)
<CaiN_SA> whats the other wm gnome uses
<CaiN_SA> metacity or ?
<CaiN_SA> oh ya
<CaiN_SA> enlightment
<crimsun> um
<crimsun> #2092 is odd
<crimsun> does it or doesn't it work?
<Rotund> I'm wondering if anyone has taken on packaging DogTail.
<Rotund> Does anyone know?  Or is there a list somewhere of what programs people are packaging?  Or at least which have been submitted and not accepted.
<marcin_ant> hi guys
<sivang> Rotund: isn't it already available in debian?
<marcin_ant> could someone tell me if is there something like built in variable
<marcin_ant> that holds package name in debian/rules?
<Mithrandir> there isn't
<marcin_ant> Mithrandir: so if I want to set this variable then I need to use some grep/sed/perl magic and parse value for this variable from debian/control file?
<Mithrandir> why?  Just set it manually.
<Rotund> sivang: not in "any" on packages.debian.org
<marcin_ant> Mithrandir: hmm few reasons why
<marcin_ant> Mithrandir: 1. I got a bunch of packages that need very simmilar rules file
<marcin_ant> Mithrandir: 2. if I build more than one package with my debian/rules file than I would like
<sivang> Rotund: well, you can try and package it yourself, or suggest that on the universe candidates wiki page and maybe one of the MOTUs will pick it up
<marcin_ant> Mithrandir: to have a variable with a list of packages I build to run some commands recursively
<Mithrandir> marcin_ant: very similar != the same and I think that having a goal of having the same debian/rules file is silly
<marcin_ant> Mithrandir: well in fact - they are currenlty simmilar - but could be the same if I will remove hardcoded values
<Mithrandir> why is that a goal?
<marcin_ant> to have single template for all packages?
<Mithrandir> no, to have the same rules file for all packages.
<Rotund> sivang: I'll suggest it first.  We'll see how much time I have tonight.
<sivang> Rotund: ubuntu's universe could always use more folks helping,so feel free if you want to join ;)
<marcin_ant> to make my work nice and easy?
<marcin_ant> I don't want to modify a bunch of files when I want to change something
<Mithrandir> keep them in version control and let the VCS do the work for you, then.
<marcin_ant> just single template
<Mithrandir> or keep the stuff in a library file which you include
<marcin_ant> anyway there is no point in this discussion - I don't want to create libraries like cddb because I don't want to create additional dependencies
<marcin_ant> I just want to have some rules file without 'hardcoded' values
<marcin_ant> that's all
<jamessan|work> so set a variable at the top and use that throughout the rest of the rules file so you only have to change it in one spot
<marcin_ant> I already got an answer for my question - no built in variable - so I'll parse control/changelog and get what I need
<marcin_ant> jamessan|work: sure
<marcin_ant> jamessan|work: but my question was 'is there some built in variable that keeps package name'
<marcin_ant> jamessan|work: there is no such variable - and that's all
<bddebian> Heya gang
<dholbach> re
<bddebian> Heya Daniel
<dholbach> hey barry
<bddebian> Hey, 2 days away and it's quiet in here... :-)
<\sh> no it's not I'm working
<dholbach> :))
<dholbach> any REVU admin in here?
<bddebian> Heya \sh.  I see you have been super busy on FTBFSs :-)
<bddebian> dholbach: I'm supposed to be but I don't know if I can help or not
<dholbach> bddebian: how can stuff be built and i see all the crazy stuff that some packages have and some don't?
<bddebian> "All the crazy stuff"?  You mean the linda/lintian/etc stuff?
<dholbach> linda and lintian is normal
<dholbach> i thought we were able to let stuff be test-built on that machine
<dholbach> hm
<bddebian> Ooohh
<bddebian> dholbach: Yeah, I think we can but ufortunately I don't know how?  \sh do you know?
<zakame> hi all!
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<dholbach> hey zakame
<zakame> is there a policy for putting www site configuration files?
<Seveas> bigcx2, join #ubuntu-meeting
<Seveas> CC meeting is now
<Amaranth> ooh, i finally make it to a meeting
<Diablo-D3> Seveas: cc?
<siretart> dholbach: whats up?
<bddebian> OK, dholbach, we are down to the wire, what's the priority? :-)
<dholbach> down to the wire?
* dholbach doesn't know that one
<bddebian> Aren't we two days from release?
<dholbach> yeah we are
<dholbach> fix up all we can :)
<bddebian> "down to the wire" == VERY close to the goal :-)
<dholbach> oh yes
<dholbach> :)
<bddebian> "fix up" is a little generic ;-)
<dholbach> i know
<chillywilly> when is the release date?
<chillywilly> the 15th?
<dholbach> 13th
<bddebian> Well I don't think I am going to make ANY of my goals :-(  The bug count jumped from 480 something to 513 in the last few days. :-(
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<bddebian> Lathiat: ping?
<dholbach> bddebian: i thought that would happen
<dholbach> a lot of people upgrade or installed a fresh breezy prerelease
<chillywilly> 3 days....wooooo! :)
<chillywilly> heya bddebian
<dholbach> so they report all they can find
<bddebian> Aye :-(
<bddebian> crimsun: You around?
<Lathiat> bddebian: pong
<bddebian> Lathiat: Did you save any of your fixes for boson-base?
<Lathiat> bddebian: i never fixed anything
<Lathiat> i just tried and failed
<bddebian> Lathiat: So fix it d00d ;-P
<LaserJock> could a MOTU look at my stuff on UniverseFTBS because I can't upload (newbie)?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Give me a sec
<bddebian> LaserJock: Testing gdis now
<LaserJock> bddebian: Thanks, I just didn't want it to fall through the cracks just because I'm not one of the all powerfull MOTU {queue diabolical laugh}. ;-)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> LaserJock: OK, gdis uploading.  Check the build logs.  Are you whitelisted?
<LaserJock> bddebian: no
<bddebian> Well get whitelisted damnit ;-)
<LaserJock> how?
<bddebian> Ask someone.  I can't remember who.. :-)
<LaserJock> boy, that's real helpful
<bddebian> I know, sorry
<bddebian> Mako maybe?
<LaserJock> ok, so should I email?
<bddebian> LaserJock: You can try to ping elmo in -devel or email him at james.troup@u.c
<LaserJock> ok, thanks
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads
<dholbach> not his normal adress
<dholbach> !!! :)
<bddebian> Doh :-(
<bddebian> LaserJock: ^^
<LaserJock> soo, I email upload@ubuntulinux.org? What am I supposed to put in the email?
<dholbach> just your name, your emailadress that you want to work with the MOTU crew and sign it with your gpg key
<bddebian> Damn, I think \sh has already finished the FTBFS page.. ;-)
<LaserJock> I have a gpg key, but it hasn't been  verified by anyone or anything. Is that OK?
<bddebian> If something is already fixed, should it be removed from the arch page?
<bddebian> LaserJock: That should be fine for now.  You will need it signed to become an MOTU
<LaserJock> ok, thanks for all your help guys. Gotta get to class (dang grad school)
<bddebian> Who was doing the atlas stuff?
<dholbach> sistpoty?
<dholbach> has anybody seen j^ lately?
<dholbach> if he wants to get in networkmanager-vpnc he should get a move on, quickly :)
<bddebian> Heh
<Diablo-D3> wtf
<Diablo-D3> Your mail to 'Universe-bugs' with the subject
<Diablo-D3>     [Bug 2092]  realtime-lsm-source builds but wont load on breezy
<Diablo-D3> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
<Diablo-D3> isn't that stupid.
<dholbach> yes it is
<dholbach> and if you tell me how to fix mailman, i'll do it
<dholbach> kthxbye
<Diablo-D3> hah
<Diablo-D3> you could hack it
<Diablo-D3> check where the mail was sent from
<ogra> dholbach, why should 'Universe-bugs' accept mails other than malone mails ?
<Diablo-D3> if from mail.ubuntu.com allow, or whatever
<dholbach> that's what i tried in numerous ways
<Diablo-D3> ogra: it shouldnt
<ogra> you do the communication through the bugtracker
<dholbach> guys
<dholbach> look at the mail headers
<dholbach> thank you
<Diablo-D3> dholbach: bingo
<dholbach> it's not FROM to parse, it's REPLY-TO to parse
<Diablo-D3> exactly!
<Diablo-D3> well, actually, that might be a tad insecure
<dholbach> talk to the guys in #launchpad
<dholbach> i had the conversation at least 10 times too often :)
<Diablo-D3> I could put my own REPLY-TO header in, and make it look like launchpad sent it
<Diablo-D3> heh
<dholbach> (and no new ideas on how to fix it :))
<Diablo-D3> well
<Diablo-D3> there is one way to fix it
<Diablo-D3> have launchpad manage the mailing list
<dholbach> then you're talking to the wrong guy
<Diablo-D3> allow users to watch for new bugs for any given project
<Diablo-D3> ie, I could watch ubuntu, and get mails on all new ubuntu bugs
<Diablo-D3> dholbach: no, but its atleast an idea.
<Diablo-D3> hrm, can I file bugs on launchpad via launchpad?
<Diablo-D3> btw, there is one last alternative
<Diablo-D3> allow people who arent subscribed to post.
<Diablo-D3> not that I'm recommending that, its still an idea.
<dholbach> #launchpad :)
<dholbach> of file a bug on launchpad
* Diablo-D3 is going to strike up a bug on this
<Diablo-D3> imo I'd be a great feature
<Diablo-D3> and we wouldnt need a mailing list to provide a mailing list, it'd all be done out of launchpad, and customized for each user's needs
<Diablo-D3> dholbach: good idea, right?
<dholbach> as i said, i suggest you talk to the launchpad guys :)
<dholbach> i'm quite busy at the moment :)
<Diablo-D3> I am I am =P
<zakame> wb Seveas
<dholbach> bbl
<\sh> re
<bddebian> wb \sh
<\sh> re barry
<\sh> hmmm...I need to blacklist the acx100 drivers
<bddebian> \sh: You've been far too busy on the FTBFS list, I can't even tell where we are.. ;-)
<\sh> somehow
<\sh> and load instead ndiswrapper
<\sh> I shoud do it via /etc/hotplug/blacklist, right?
<\sh> brb
<crimsun> bddebian: in for a sec, bbiab. I know about vlc, fixing.
<bddebian> crimsun: No, actually xfce question but I suppose I could ask in #xubuntu huh? :-)
<crimsun> sure
<bddebian> \sh or dholbach: What is the process for packages that built once, failed on the last attempt, but build fine in their current state now?
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> are they installable?
<dholbach> (from the archive)
<dholbach> what you could do is:
<bddebian> Oh, hehe, that was just amd64
<dholbach> get the package from the archive      sudo apt-get install -d <package>  (--reinstall maybe)    - build the package yourself and do a debdiff on those two packages
<dholbach> you might have to install wdiff too
<dholbach> see if the dependencies have change
<dholbach> (and what has changed in general)
<bddebian> Nope, they're the same.  I'll make a note
<dholbach> if so, remove the package from the list
<bddebian> dholbach: OK
<Diablo-D3> subscription to project feature request: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3067
<abarbaccia_> tseng, you here?
<\sh> k...building new amarok package
<\sh> if someone would help me...
<\sh> http://archive.linux-server.org/testing/
<\sh> amarok-1.3.3 binary breezy packages for all engines...are waiting for you to test...pls hurry, kthxbye ;)
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hi
<bddebian> \sh: What kind of tests?
<\sh> bddebian: stability, memleaks, if you have an ipod-> ipod transfers with amarok...
<\sh> gstreamer tests, xine tests etc.
<\sh> check if gstreamer is default engine to use
<bddebian> Oh, I have no iPod.  I'm an uncool old fart remember ;-)
<ivoks> slomo_: here?
<slomo_> bddebian: i have no ipod too ;)
<slomo_> ivoks: yes... but i have to leave in a few minutes
<ivoks> slomo_: so... what problems with ipod and banshee?
<ivoks> slomo: any malone bugs?
<ivoks> since i have one beta tester with ipod
<slomo> ivoks: i had many bugreports that ipod support in banshee was broken
<slomo> no malone because banshee isn't in malone yet
<slomo> i got them via mail
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> this guy didn't say anything wrong about banshee to me :/
<slomo> so i went back to releases of banshee and ipod stuff... many people told me it worked before so......
<ivoks> ok
<slomo> and if something is broken i can now happily point to upstream because it's all releases now, no cvs snapshots ;)
<ivoks> :>
<ivoks> ok then
<slomo> hehe... but thanks for asking :) well, i have to leave again now :) see you all tomorrow
<ivoks> slomo: one more q...
<ivoks> slomo: quick one
<slomo> sure
<ivoks> slomo: old banshee supports faac?
<slomo> yes... since the beginning ;)
<slomo> you just need gstreamer0.8-faac
<ivoks> ok, thanks
<slomo> ok...
* slomo is gone now
<ivoks> bye
<rbelem_> siretart: pong =)
<Kyral> Is anyone handling the cpp-4.0 FTBFS?
<crimsun> \sh: FWIW, amarok "1.3.1" in Breezy has been very stable
<dholbach> Kyral: drop it, must be a mistake, take something else rather :)
<Kyral> Are you saying it would be too hard for me? ;P
<\sh> crimsun: not for the ipod generation and not alsaink
<Kyral> Okay then....can I see a list of them that no one is working on? I <3 PBuilder now
<crimsun> \sh: Really? I use Gstreamer's alsasink...
<\sh> crimsun: it's patched by riddell
<\sh> crimsun: backported from 1.3.2
<\sh> crimsun: 1.3.1 never had alsaink
<crimsun> \sh: that's why I said "1.3.1"
* Kyral sets off to work on xpaint
<Kyral> if it builds from sid do I upload it to REVU or just tell someone?
<bddebian> Kyral: Is it on the list already?
<Kyral> its on the UniverseFTBFSi386 list
<bddebian> Kyral: Ah, then ask someone to ask elmo to sync it.
<Kyral> and I don't think anyone is working on it
<Kyral> cmix builds clean from sid. Someone wanna ask elmo to sync it?
<Kyral> on i386 that is
<dholbach> did you install it and it works?
<Kyral> I'm about to. I know it builds :D
<Kyral> ....if I had C source files to test it on...
<dallingham> Sorry for the newbie question, but what is the process for requesting an upgrade to a package in the universe repository?
<Kyral> I think its running alright, I mean according to the manpage its only for C source files and its complaining about my C++ source files :D
<dholbach> dallingham: a bug report on malone would be cool
<bddebian> dallingham: Probably a bug report on Malone but you can ask here.
<dallingham> For future reference, what is Malone?
<dholbach> launchpad.net/malone
<dallingham> bddebian: The current version of GRAMPS (genealogy program) is 2.0.5. The current version is 2.0.8, and it is much more stable that 2.0.5.
<dallingham> dholbach: Thanks.
<bddebian> dallingham: What version does Debian have?
<Kyral> I think its good dholbach
<dallingham> bddebian: Debian has 2.0.8. This package works well under the current breezy.
<dholbach> hellas sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Aye, heya sistpoty
<dholbach> sistpoty: last minute fixing? :))
<sistpoty> sure ;)
<bddebian> dallingham: I'll take a look
<dallingham> bddebian: Thanks. I appreciate it.
<sistpoty> anyone had a look on seahorse http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=768 yet?
<siretart> hi
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<sistpoty> huhu siretart
<siretart> seahorse revert to older version?
<sistpoty> yep
<siretart> ah, you told me earlier today.. perhaps we should better upload that quickly..
<sistpoty> siretart: erm... I haven't checked the package yet, since i don't know exactly what was wrong with the new version
<siretart> sistpoty: can you check it? I
<siretart> I'll revu-build it..
<siretart> if not, lets ask \sh to test it, because he uses seahorse on a regular basis
<sistpoty> siretart: would be great if \sh could take a look... i can't see much more than my keys listed and that clicking on one of them works
<\sh> siretart: sorry...I'm getting my head straight
<sistpoty> damn
<sistpoty> ;)
<\sh> siretart: but it's not crashing
<\sh> siretart: and it's working
<\sh> but sorry...I'm really fcked now...and I won't do any uploads, fixes today...
<siretart> hm. it would really help to know what is actually broken in 0.7.9
<sistpoty> yep
<siretart> \sh: no problem. I won't upload today, too. need to do some compiler stuff :/
<bddebian> dallingham: OK, I have requested a sync from Debian.
<dallingham> bddebian: Thanks.
<bddebian> NP
<dholbach> i just assigned the last batch of unassigned stuff
<dholbach> maybe we find easy stuff to figure out
<dholbach> are you all cracking on UniverseFTBFS or how's the atmosphere?
<bddebian> What's this WE stuff? :-)
<dholbach> WE?
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<dholbach> morning andrew
<bddebian> dholbach: You assigned them all to ajmitch right? ;-)
<dholbach> bddebian: WE?
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> yeah, I thought we agreed to let bddebian handle all the FTBFS?
<bddebian> <dholbach> maybe we find easy stuff to figure out
<ajmitch> oh right
<ajmitch> well we're leaving all the malone bugs for you
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> bddebian: don't get pessimistic now
* ajmitch is already pessimistic
* bddebian kicks ajmitch ;-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: how so?
<bddebian> dholbach: I'm not pessimistic, just wondering if you have a mouse in your pocket "we"? hrmph  ;-P
<ajmitch> dholbach: because there's nothing I can help with :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: it's all fixed or what?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> just that I can't help with much
<dholbach> too much things to do, hm?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, we had the unveiling of www.ubuntu-it.org !
<dholbach> i heard it :)
<thesaltydog> just few days before breezy... in time for the announcement
<dholbach> awesome work :)
<thesaltydog> it was hard. but our new organization of locoteam is very cool
<thesaltydog> we do not have a leader, but a sort of Council made of 4 people who organize the groups
<thesaltydog> is there any kind MOTU who could spend few minutes to sync latest baobab from debian, before release?
<thesaltydog> current breezy version is quite old.
<bddebian> thesaltydog: From Debian?
<thesaltydog> yes testing/unstable
<bddebian> Let me test it
<thesaltydog> v. 1.2.0 is there since a month
<ajmitch> and what about the ubuntu changes?
<bddebian> I'm looking
<thesaltydog> No changes. I have introduced them 2 releases ago.
<thesaltydog> dholbach, did I told that now baobab is on gnome CVS?
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> sorry for not replying the mail
<dholbach> you're doing well
<thesaltydog> and also on gnome-bugzilla
<dholbach> i'm just busy
<thesaltydog> hey, don't worry. I know..
<\sh> sorry..that I'm today not a big help...
<ajmitch> bah
* \sh is drinking only...my head fcking hurts
<ajmitch> far more of a help than I am
<ajmitch> yay, launchpad system errors!
<azeem> you guys are worse than bddebian
<sistpoty> suffering from a cold \sh?
<\sh> sistpoty: no...from a decision
<ajmitch> azeem: we are, he helps out :)
<sistpoty> ah, ok
<sistpoty> that's even worse ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: about amarok...the most difficult decision I ever made
<dholbach> azeem: why that?
<\sh> azeem: u know... bddebian is god...
<azeem> yeah, I know
<\sh> and I'm the fcking bastard who didn't let amarok 1.3.3. in
<\sh> cheers
<dholbach> stephan: it was a wise move
<ogra> prost
<dholbach> really
* azeem has root on one of bddebian's boxen, does that make me a demi-god?
<\sh> I'm taking it personally..but it was my decision
<dholbach> azeem: why are we worse than debian guys?
<bddebian> azeem: Heh
<azeem> dholbach: I said "you guys are worse than bddebian"
<Tonio-> dholbach or \sh , I reuploaded ktvschedule on revu but it is apparently blocked in the queue....
<dholbach> azeem: ok, sorry :)))
<sistpoty> Tonio-: I'll take a look
<dholbach> Tonio-: was it NEW?
<Tonio-> sistpoty: thanks
<Tonio-> dholbach: yep
<dholbach> Tonio-: NEW items have to be processed by the ftp master
<dholbach> Tonio-: so we'll have to wait
<dholbach> ahhh
<dholbach> REVU
<dholbach> ok :)
<Tonio-> dholbach: yep revu, where else can I upload ^_^
<dholbach> was confused
<dholbach> nevermind :)
<sistpoty> Tonio-: it was rejected... but i don't know why yet :(
<Tonio-> dholbach: no pb. I corrected and reuploaded all your today's revued packages
<dholbach> Tonio-: ROCK
<Tonio-> sistpoty: okay.... strange anyway
<bddebian> thesaltydog: I requested a sync from Debian for baobab
<thesaltydog> bddebian, thanks a lot.
<bddebian> NP
<sistpoty> Tonio-: did you upload with dput?
<Tonio-> ho and did slomo (I think it's him) found the reason why it seems to be impossible to upload pwmanager ?
<Tonio-> sistpoty: absolutly
<Tonio-> dholbach: I think you tried three or four time for this one no ?
<tseng> abarbaccia: yes
<dholbach> Tonio-: elmo should know
<tseng> abarbaccia: im working
<sistpoty> Tonio-: strange... have no clue why it didn't work... but it should be on revu now
<abarbaccia> tseng jsut wanted to let you know the new package works!
<tseng> ok
<Tonio-> sistpoty: thanks ;) I don't know myself..... I was behind an Isa Server ftp proxy, that might be the reason (microsoft's fault ^^)
<sistpoty> Tonio-: that wasn't the reason... the files have been there (otherwise i couldn't have triggered revu to accept them;)
<Tonio-> sistpoty: that was a joke ;-) you can be sure I checked on the server first before asking ^^
<sistpoty> hehe
<Tonio-> sistpoty: I'll add a smiley next time ;)
<Tonio-> dholbach: concerning help for revuing toonight, I may start a bit late, cause Riddell needs help improving kubuntu usplash, and I'm gonna have a look at that
<dholbach> Tonio-: better get going at kubnutu
<dholbach> Tonio-: dunno howh much i can review and how much stuff will get in
<dholbach> if the release doesnt need me (i shouldnt think so), i'll get involved in fixing ftbfses/bugs
<Tonio-> dholbach: you already did so much ;) don't mind if some don't get in
<dholbach> don't worry :)
<Tonio-> dholbach: if there is one application I would like to see in ubuntu, it is yakuake, best rated application on kde-apps
<Tonio-> but I have to reupload it due to new tarball....
<Riddell> Tonio-: let me know if you want me to look at that
<Tonio-> I'm gonna do it right now...
<Tonio-> Riddell: okay
<Riddell> whatever it is
<bddebian> Shit, I think my kids may have just turned off my Breezy machine at home. :-(
<Tonio-> I'm reuploading, then start working on kubuntu usplash
<Riddell> hmm, debuild should depend on fakeroot
<\sh> what is it?
<Riddell> \sh: what's debuild?
<Riddell> or what's yakuake?
<\sh> no what *lemmelookagain* yakuake
<\sh> sounds like bukkake (sp?)
<Tonio-> Riddell: like kuake an alternative to console
<Tonio-> hum....... hard to describe, but that rocks ;)
<Tonio-> 92% on kde-apps, best rated.....
<Tonio-> Riddell: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=29153 if you wanna get an idea
<Tonio-> I'm repackaging it with the last version
<Riddell> "a KDE terminal emulator"  I think we have one of those :)
<TMM> Riddell, no that is a Konsole that is something substantially different from a console or terminal emulator
<TMM> :P
<Riddell> well I'll have to wait and see I guess
<bddebian> Well shit, I guess I'm done for breezy :'-(
<abarbaccia> guys - how do i tell apt-get to not upgrade a package - i need a degraded version for a compatibility reason
<ajmitch> bddebian: no you're not, keep working
<bddebian> ajmitch: I think my laptop just died at home :-(
<ajmitch> oh well
<ajmitch> you've got about 20 spare
<bddebian> Yeah but nothing with breezy installed and I'm at work. :'-(
<NotThomMay> hey
* ajmitch will bbiab
<NotThomMay> is eclipse broken in breezy at the moment?
<sistpoty> bddebian: you could use pbuilder on tiber.tauware.de... ;)
<bddebian> NotThomMay: There are several bugs posted against it on Malone
<NotThomMay> (as in uninstallable, dependancies, rather than the program itself)
<NotThomMay> kk
<bddebian> Hmm, I don't know of any that say it's uninstallable
<sistpoty> bddebian: thats true... but you could at least fix compile issues ;)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Yeah but how much damage would I cause there? :-)
<NotThomMay> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<NotThomMay>   eclipse-sdk: Depends: eclipse-jdt (= 3.1.1-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<NotThomMay>                Depends: eclipse-pde (= 3.1.1-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<sistpoty> bddebian: you are an admin on tiber, so you can fix the damage :P
<bddebian> Oh yeah, just what I need it to break somone elses box :-)
<sistpoty> hehe
<siretart> bddebian: pbuilding should be rather save. you may (and in fact should) pbuild in your home or use the revu-build script to build some revu uploads. that's what tiber is for
* ajmitch returns
<dholbach> sistpoty: don't want to push you, but how are the seahorse plans?
<ogra> NotThomMay, there was an upload today ...
<sistpoty> dholbach: it's residing on revu, waiting for s.o. with knowledge to test
<dholbach> sistpoty: which version did you take?
<dholbach> (for reverting) our old?
<sistpoty> 0.7.8-2 with compile fix from me
<sistpoty> to match current gedit version
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> will poke
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'd say you could use pbuilder on my box
<sistpoty> thx dholbach
<ajmitch> but I doubt you could stand a box that slow
* sistpoty is away for dinner now
<\sh> dinner?
<\sh> I don't even have a pizza-cap now
<dholbach> sistpoty: ping
<dholbach> sistpoty: nevermind
<Riddell> dholbach: any idea what the crack with pwmanager is?
<dholbach> no idea
<dholbach> elmo should know
<ajmitch> it's been uploaded a few times with no obvious result
<ajmitch> I think uploading with the changelog set to a whitelisted address might help?
<NotThomMay> ogra: just dist upgraded and am still getting The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<NotThomMay>   eclipse-sdk: Depends: eclipse-jdt (= 3.1.1-1ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<NotThomMay>                Depends: eclipse-pde (= 3.1.1-1ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed
<NotThomMay> E: Broken packages
<dholbach> you already told us
<NotThomMay> well ogra said there was an upload today, so I was letting him know that after upgrading, the problem remains
<sistpoty> dholbach: pong
<ogra> NotThomMay, ping doko, he did the upload...
<NotThomMay> ogra: will do, thanks
<dholbach> NotThomMay: and there's no point in telling it twice
<ajmitch> hm, should I sit LPI exams at LCA? :)
<mxpxpod> why is it that the docs provided by gtk-sharp2 (from monodoc-gtk2.0-manual) show Gtk.AboutDialog, but it doesn't exist in the library?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-09
<Laser_away> hmm, I need a "CVS for svn users" tutorial :/
<ajmitch> aka "going back to the stone age"
<Laser_away> well, lots of projects still use it :/
<Laser_away> I've never had to use it before
<Laser_away> I went and ran autogen.sh and ./configure && make && make install
<Laser_away> but CVS has no revert
<Laser_away> that I can find
<Laser_away> do most people checkout the CVS and then copy it to a tmp dir to work in?
<zul> heh alot of companies still use cvs
<ajmitch> Laser_away: cvs up -C file
<Laser_away> well, I'm particularly working with a few Gnome apps
<ajmitch> sigh
<Laser_away> so I've got 3 CVS checkouts
<ajmitch> motu meeting tonight
<ajmitch> well, 3AM for me
<Laser_away> poor ajmitch
<Laser_away> if you can't make it we'll understand for sure
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I might try
<ajmitch> back later
<Laser_away> if you can't though maybe you could email your thoughts on the agenda items
<Laser_away> :-)
<zul> where is the agenda anyways?
<Laser_away> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<mister_roboto> anyone know how to make a request for new software to be placed in the repositories?
<Adri2000> universe is frozen for edgy
<mister_roboto> Adri2000: yes, but i'm asking for the next version
<Adri2000> ah
<mister_roboto> Adri2000: or some time in the future
<Adri2000> new ubuntu version?
<mister_roboto> the software i'd like to see it "truecrypt".   the current source that you can download from their site doesn't compile on edgy and the .deb is for dapper
<mister_roboto> would be nice to see it maintained properly
<Adri2000> if you know about packaging you can create a package for edgy+1 (in a few weeks) and send put it on REVU, if you don't, you can request it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<Adri2000> s/send put/put/
<mister_roboto> Adri2000: thanks!
<Toadstool> mister_roboto: iirc there are licensing issue with truecrypt
<Toadstool> *issues
<Toadstool> dunno if it has been fixed
<mister_roboto> Toadstool: hmmm... no idea
<mister_roboto> Toadstool: been using it on windows and it's pretty slick
<ajmitch> back
<zul> yay!
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you up?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's approximately 4pm
<ajmitch> yes, I am awake
<LaserJock> what do you think of making a script to send pbuilder jobs to people's machines and getting .debs and build logs back
<ajmitch> sounds moderately crackful, but not very hard
<LaserJock> I had 2-3 people who wanted to donate CPU time on their computers
<ajmitch> I could do it with mini-dinstall & some hooks in a short time
<LaserJock> to the MOTU
* ajmitch is generally far shorter on bandwidth than on cpu time
* LaserJock is short on arch and cpu time
<ajmitch> & I just have 2 systems at home to build on
<ajmitch> which shows how short I am on bandwidth :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> well, I was wondering
<LaserJock> maybe we could use tiber
<ajmitch> tiber == slow
<LaserJock> where MOTUs and Hopefuls would put packages they need built
<ajmitch> it could be used for coordinating & sending stuff out
<LaserJock> yes, that's what I'm talking about
<ajmitch> remember that it's not 100% secure building stuff for others, even inside pbuilder
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I was trying to think of a what to do it
<TheMuso> What you guys are discussing is along a similar line to what I was thinking.
<LaserJock> perhaps using gpg and having some sort of screening mechanism
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yes, I am :-)
<LaserJock> the guy that's doing mubuntu
<LaserJock> said he would donate some time on his AMD64 4600+
* ajmitch would be happy doing this in some xen instances, rather than in builder
<ajmitch> sigh, I've only got a slow old 4200+ :)
<TheMuso> Heh. I don't even have a 640bit CPU.
<TheMuso> 64-bit even
<ajmitch> :)
<LaserJock> I've got a stink 1.3 GHz P4 so :p
<TheMuso> Well I do in my alpha, but thats not an Ubuntu supported arch.
<LaserJock> somebody even mentioned they might be willing to buy a machine for MOTU to use
<LaserJock> I put a MOTU Build Farm (TheMuso's stuff) and Donations on the agenda for the MOTU Meeting
<TheMuso> Cool.
<LaserJock> it might be interesting to consider
<LaserJock> I see 2 issues
<LaserJock> 1) trust
<LaserJock> 2) it's pretty straightforward to build, but what about testing the resulting .debs
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah.
<LaserJock> for testing we could look into piuparts
<TheMuso> If we only had to worry about building them, and some people felt brave enough, they could do what imbrandon is trying to do, and set up cross-compile pbuilders etc.
<TheMuso> So fast AMD64/i386 machines could host cross-compilers.
<TheMuso> But it still doesn't solve the trust issue.
<ajmitch> decent isolation like xen can help
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> well, if we seperate uploader from builder (having a source repo on tiber that builders pull from)
<LaserJock> then it eliminates trust issues on the builder's end I think
<TheMuso> One thing that has to be considered is bandwidth. Some of us are on the other side of the planet.
<LaserJock> but on our end
<LaserJock> as far as uploading?
<TheMuso> Just general passing files around to machines etc.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I do that all the time anyway
<LaserJock> in the basic case I'm not sure there would need to be a lot of transfer
<TheMuso> Passing files between machines over the net back and forth etc?
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<LaserJock> apt-get source, upload to REVU, transfer to my home computer, transfer ...
<TheMuso> Perhaps a system where the owner of a donated system can set up just how much bandwidth they have, so they for example need to worry about big source packages.
<LaserJock> yeah
<TheMuso> And same with CPU speed.
<LaserJock> I was thinking the builder could set up certain criteria like that
<TheMuso> Slower machines can be set to only build small packages
<LaserJock> perhaps even time of day
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<LaserJock> but I think even having machines to look at FTBFS on amd64 and ppc would be nice
<LaserJock> just returning the build log
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: technically, it's not hard to setup
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: are you really here?
<ajmitch> she's probably at uni
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock.  indeed.
<Hobbsee> and i am at uni, yes
<LaserJock> working hard?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: eg sbuild should get xen support at some point - so the combination of sbuild+lvm+xen is fairly safe
<Hobbsee> yeah...got a couple more assignmetns today :(  why?
<ajmitch> or you could just do pbuilder
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: what classes are you taking?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: computing (c++), physics, electronics, maths
<ajmitch> of course Hobbsee is working hard...
<zul_> slacking more like
<LaserJock> ah C++, you should teach me
<Hobbsee> heh
<LaserJock> I want to learn C++
<LaserJock> I was hoping to go through life without having to
<LaserJock> but alas, the world hasn't converted to Python completely ;-)
<LaserJock> aren't most Gnome apps written in C?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: afaik yes
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder why the ones I'm looking at are C++
<LaserJock> I'll have to ask the dev
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee might learn python next
<TheMuso> LaserJock: What package?
<LaserJock> gnome-chemistry-utils
<LaserJock> chemisty-mime-data
<TheMuso> What are its deps?
<LaserJock> goffice
<TheMuso> Does it depend on gtkmm anywhere?
<LaserJock> nope
<TheMuso> oh ok.
<LaserJock> maybe he just likes C++ better
<TheMuso> I am surprised that he doesn't use the gtkmm wrappers.
<TheMuso> Or he might use gnomemm wrappers.
<LaserJock> I think he said he didn't
<LaserJock> at least for gtkmm
<LaserJock> not sure about gnomemm
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> do you know how I could tell from the code?
<TheMuso> nope
<LaserJock> maybe I can write python bindings for the library
<LaserJock> haha, who am I kidding? ;-)
<ajmitch> go for it!
<LaserJock> oh sweet, Gnome bindings for Fortran :-)
<LaserJock> I'm only a raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU, I have no programming supa powers :'(
<LaserJock> like, I thought I knew some python, but Amaranth clearly showed me I have no idea how to use Python ;-)
<Amaranth> heh
* ajmitch has no powers whatsoever
<ajmitch> I'm just your everyday hacker
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I'm not proud of some of the things I've made Python do. :P
<LaserJock> haha
<ajmitch> Amaranth: you can get help for that
<LaserJock> Amaranth: my wife is a couselor, she might be able to help
<Amaranth> Like, say, replacing the class an object is an instance of without recreating the object.
<ajmitch> Amaranth: when you're abusing things like that, you know something is wrong
<ajmitch> it's not something to be proud of by any means :P
<Amaranth> ajmitch: It didn't work out anyway, pygtk doesn't create new-style classes
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<Amaranth> I believe I was trying to replace an automatically created child of a widget with a subclassed version that had extra methods i needed :P
<ajmitch> new-style classes do have their uses
<LaserJock> crimsun: got any recommendations for C++ books/resources online
<crimsun> bah, just reattached
<ajmitch> hello crimsun
<crimsun> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's boston?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> is today a holiday in europe?
<ajmitch> no idea
<Burgundavia> I think I talked a rh guy into shipping g-a-i on Fedora
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> how was whiprush's session?
<Burgundavia> pretty quiet
<Burgundavia> it was just me and whiprush
<ajmitch> that's sad
<ajmitch> I thought there'd be some more interest than that
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> sadly federico couldn't make it
<ajmitch> hopefully you'll get a bit more interest at UDS
<Burgundavia> if I am there
<ajmitch> if?
<Burgundavia> work is about to start a huge new project
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> I thought you'd already arranged to get there
<Burgundavia> which means I may not be able to go
<ajmitch> how annoying
<Burgundavia> I should have just booked the tickets and then used them as a fait accompli
<ajmitch> a shame I didn't have money for airfares last week
<ajmitch> since they've gone up a bit now
<Burgundavia> have they gone up?
<ajmitch> about $200 NZD
<Burgundavia> hmm, that sucks
<ajmitch> quite
<ajmitch> it may have been manageable beforehand, now it's a bit tighter
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> 16K open bugs, and RC freeze in a matter of days
<ajmitch> we're doing well
<chillywilly> anyone know if pengi really means penguin in japanese?
<imbrandon_> moins all
<imbrandon_> TheMuso: still arround ?
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: For a bit yeah.
<imbrandon_> cool, i got the cross compilers working and cross packageing
<TheMuso> Nice.
<imbrandon_> MUCH simpler than the howto i put up before
<imbrandon_> i only have one small issue to work out
<imbrandon_> but it will be easy i think
<imbrandon_> ( the extra libs from non-base packages that are arch specific )
<imbrandon_> like xlibs
<TheMuso> Right.
<imbrandon_> but simple packages ( that dont require extra libs ) work perfect
<imbrandon_> the rest should just be a matter of paths
<imbrandon_> i think this is gonna work out good for the MOTU farm ( and those that want to do it on their own too )
<imbrandon_> i also ran accross a project called dpbuilder ( distribute pbuilder ) so jobs get scheduled accross machines
<imbrandon_> but a sigle job still runs on one machine
<imbrandon_> so say i setup 4 500mhz ppc machines , you would only have to log into one
<imbrandon_> and run dpbuilder on the package
<imbrandon_> the package would build localy but say the second motu that logs in
<imbrandon_> and runs dpbuiler his package gets scheduled on another machine
<imbrandon_> but you both only have to have one login
<imbrandon_> all in all its looking promising
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: Will you be at the MOTU meeting
<imbrandon_> yup
<TheMuso> THe motu build farm is on the agenda for that.
<imbrandon_> oh nice
<TheMuso> So you can talk about that then.
<TheMuso> THe biggest concern for some of us is security.
<TheMuso> By some of us, I mean others who have talked about it in here.
<ajmitch> hi TheMuso, imbrandon_
<TheMuso> Hey ajmitch.
<imbrandon_> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon_> TheMuso: yea i thought about that too, i was looking into setting up chroot jails for each user
<imbrandon_> shouldent be hard at all
<TheMuso> Anyway, I'll be back in about 35-40 minutes.
<imbrandon_> cool
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: depends on how much you trust people who will be logging in
<imbrandon_> true
<imbrandon_> but if they are jailed then
<ajmitch> then they probably still have full network access & chroots can be broken
<imbrandon_> they shouldent be able to get out ( as long as they cant run setuid  progs )
<imbrandon_> hum true, it will have to have a good design and be thought out well
<imbrandon_> but i think it will be doable ( just not overnight )
<imbrandon_> you ?
<ajmitch> sure, it's not hard
<imbrandon_> i mean like right now i only let people i trust but still keep security pretty high but still
<imbrandon_> i wouldent let the public in as is
<imbrandon_> s/public/just any MOTU
<imbrandon_> heh
* ajmitch has only let a couple of people on with pbuilder/chroot here
<imbrandon_> yea i only have , hmr 4 accounts me, hobbsee , fujitsu , and seveas
<Hobbsee> hey yeah, meeting is on tonight.  that's right
<imbrandon_> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<ajmitch> Hobbsee! dholbach!
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee, hey imbrandon
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, thanks for the reminder!
<Fujitsu> I must remember not to go to bed.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon_> heh
<imbrandon_> how many hours is it ?
<ajmitch> 7 hours
* ajmitch might go to bed soon & get up for the meeting
<ajmitch> once I get through some more bugs
<imbrandon_> heh
<imbrandon_> heya elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> hi :)
<ajmitch> hello elkbuntu
* TheMuso walks in.
<imbrandon_> nixternal: ping
<imbrandon_> nixternal: just wanted to poke you about your blog, you do know sun and canonical worked closely togather bringing ubuntu to the niagra chips .... i would have posted this as a comment but the math check is a little fubard ( it told me 7 x 9 isnt 63 )
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: he didn't deny that :)
<ajmitch> "I highly doubt that Sun will be the last..."
<ajmitch> sort of implies that he knew that :)
<imbrandon_> hrm i guess, heh
<imbrandon_> ahh ok , i see, i was reading that diffrently
<superm1> imbrandon_, just wanted to poke about those two LP bugs I had up for mythtv and mythplugins.  did you get a chance to look at either?
<imbrandon_> ahh crap no i got busy with gcc stuff and forgot, whats the bug numbers i'll do it now
<imbrandon_> sorry
<superm1> let me look em' up really quick '
<superm1> bug 63486 and bug 74285
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63486 in mythplugins "mythphone causes mythfrontend seg fault on amd64" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63486
<superm1> *64285
<superm1> bug 64285
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64285 in mythtv "Update to newer debian multimedia revision" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64285
<imbrandon_> kk
<ajmitch> hi spacey
<spacey> hi ajmitch
* spacey fixed his xen stuff
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> what was the problem?
<spacey> wierd =)
<spacey> at some point it seemed it was the software raid
<spacey> and at another point it seemed some conflict with one of the machines
<ajmitch> that's worrying
<spacey> we had xen from binary install thingy before and it worked on that same machine
<spacey> but now we have RAID1 working on another machine with the latest edgy kernel
<imbrandon> superm1, done and done
<imbrandon> thanks
<superm1> cool
<superm1> great
<superm1> yea i realized that it would be a mess if edgy didnt have 0.20-fixes patches, considering all the other big distros are already applying them
<spacey> but that one machine which worked flawlessly with the xen kernel from xen and with the latest ubuntu kernel had lots of problems with the edgy xen kernel 2.6.17-1
<superm1> and many people (including me) have other distros running in our myth networks ;)
<spacey> ajmitch: i wanted to file a bug on it, but i don't have much to hold on, except that it went to 100% IOwait after a while.
<spacey> that was with and without RAID btw
<ajmitch> always with the 2.6.17 edgy kernel?
<superm1> imbrandon, Okay well i'm off to bed, cya  later
<imbrandon> cya
<spacey> ajmitch: yeah the 2.6.17-1-xen0
<spacey> not with the normal ubuntu kernel
<spacey> oh yeah and the -server versions
<ajmitch> odd
<ajmitch> you could file a bug, but I don't know how easy it'll be to track down
<spacey> ajmitch: yeah thats the problem
<spacey> i could try again with the 2.6.17-5 kernel on the problem machine
<spacey> but anyway it seemed like two problems at the same time
<ajmitch> there aren't many changes in -5
<ajmitch> usually just build changes
<spacey> hm magic
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch goes on a mass-rebuild spree
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> you got the list of rebuilds?
<ajmitch> I'm doing xfonts stuff for fabbione at the moment
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<ajmitch> as they break dapper->edgy upgrades
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> thats a feature right ?
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> undocumented
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> you know i'm beging to really hate my word press theme, its too narrow
<zakame> hi all
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<zakame> hello imbrandon what's up?
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<zakame> yo ajmitch ! :D
<imbrandon> not alot, getting ready to take a break from the computer for an hour or so then maybe redo my blog theme , if i dont find any bugs to squish between now and then
<imbrandon> ;)
<zakame> hmm what's with the blog? did something happen?
<imbrandon> nothing really, i just noticed when i was writing a howto for the cross compiler stuff that my theme is tooo narrow ( its made for 800x600 )
<imbrandon> and i realy hate it that narrow
* zakame checks
<zakame> ah, right
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<zakame> hello \sh
<\sh> moins
<sivang> morning!
<spacey> ajmitch: ah RAID is still a problem ;-(
<ajmitch> I didn't expect it would have changed
<\sh> ajmitch: tested wine 0.9.22 with diablo2? ;)
<ajmitch> nope
<doluu> in which package contains lib inet
<azeem> doluu: packages.ubuntu.com has a search feature for that
<imbrandon> wow , north korea set a nuke off this morning
<imbrandon> wonderfull
<Fujitsu> imbrandon, yeah, I know.
<Fujitsu> 'tis great.
<Fujitsu> Very encouraging.
<imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.,
<doluu> it seems that there is no networking related headers and libraries
<doluu> which package I should install
<doluu> net/errno.h for example
<ajmitch> doluu: build-essential, which drags in things like libc6-dev
<imbrandon> ajmitch, you dident get much sleep ( or have you even gone yet ) heh
<ajmitch> imbrandon: haven't gone yet
<imbrandon> ahh
<doluu> still can't find something useful
<ajmitch> doluu: you may find that errno.h should be <sys/errno.h>
<doluu> i'm trying to build stk - scheme interpreter
<doluu> its configure looks for net/errno.h and to link to inet
<geser> can someone help me with bug 64363?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64363 in uswsusp "Package new debian release" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64363
<geser> the problem is that uswsusp is pacakaged differently in Ubuntu and Debian
<ajmitch> it'd be quite a long shot to get a UVF exception
<AnAnt> anyone knows the difference between -386 & -generic kernels ?
<lastnode> AnAnt, dapper had -386 and -686, but the performance difference between these two was found to be negligible, so edgy+ has -generic for both these, iirc
<lastnode> AnAnt, in any case, that is a question for #ubuntu
<StevenK> lastnode: I thought it was -386 and -generic
<lastnode> StevenK, ok, i stand corrected then.
<lastnode> so -generic encompasses -686 -k7 etc?
<StevenK> Yes, I think so.
<StevenK> -generic is also now replaces -amd64-generic
<lastnode> right
<StevenK> lastnode: Yeah, 4 kernels, -386, -generic, -server and -server-bigiron
<lastnode> there we go
<sistpoty> hi folks
<AnAnt> lionelp: softbeep_0.3-15 is in Debian now
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> sistpoty: how are you? how are things going?
<sistpoty> siretart: I'm fine, thx... have my last exam on wednesday :)
<sistpoty> siretart: how about you?
<lionelp> AnAnt: I requested the sync on friday I think
<AnAnt> lionelp: thanks
<siretart> sistpoty: exam? I thought you were writing your thesis?
<StevenK> ,
* StevenK glares at his keyboard.
<Toadstool> good morning everybody
<Fujitsu> Hi Toadstool.
<Toadstool> hey Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Just in time.
<Toadstool> yeah :)
<dholbach> motu meeting in 1
* sistpoty rushes out for a coffee and a smoke before the meeting ...
<jelmer> dholbach: Should be fixed as well now.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<dholbach> jelmer: I'll have alook after the meeting
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<sistpoty> hey bddebian: motu-meeting in #meeting
<bddebian> Doh
<jelmer> dholbach: Thanks
<sistpoty> ok... gotta learn a little bit more... cya
<dholbach> will somebody add the minutes or the irc log to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings ?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/Minutes rather
* Hobbsee notes that she missed the meeting.
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Me too :-(
<bddebian> Frickin' work.  I need to just quit my job :-)
<siretart> hmm. missed the 2nd half of the meeting, sorry. boss was in the room
<LaserJock> arggg
<LaserJock> is the meeting over?
<StevenK> LaserJock: 25 minutes ago
<LaserJock> darn it
<dholbach> I only started on it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/SRU
<LaserJock> did you guys discuss my item?
<siretart> LaserJock: the buildfarm idea? that was delayed for the next meeting
<dholbach> there were some ideas about it and we thought it best to have a wiki page to outline the process for this
<bddebian> I thought the best way was for everyone to send me hardware! ;-P
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> did somebody volunteer to do minutes?
<geser> what happens with packages removed from debian? it's worth to fix a bug in such a package?
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta get ready for work, I'll be back in ~45 min.
<LaserJock> dholbach: 2weeks in proposed? I think the Main SRU only requires 1 week
<dholbach> LaserJock: it's a proposal
<LaserJock> sure
<xerxas> maybe a bit off topic, but can anyone tell me how do I set up an apt source ?
<LaserJock> a repo?
<xerxas> yep
<xerxas> not modifying /etc/apt/sources.list :)
<xerxas> I already know how to do that
<LaserJock> kinda depends on how big of a repo you need
<LaserJock> reprepro, mini-dinstall, and apt-ftparchive would be apps to look into
<xerxas> for now I just wan to play, have my own repo, that I'll maybe share
<xerxas> but I have no package yet :)
<xerxas> thnks LaserJock
<Toadstool> grah! so many bugs, so little time..
<LaserJock> heh
<Toadstool> hey LaserJock
<Pierre> are some of the maintainers of php, gd or pecl packages around here?
<azeem> Pierre: Ubuntu doesn't have maintainers for specific packages in general
<Pierre> you just port them from debian? for all of them?
<Pierre> "just"
<azeem> well, sync/merge usually
<azeem> unless issues arise
<Pierre> ah ok, out of luck them :P
<superm1> your best bet is to look at the changelog and see if there is one person commonly merging, and ping them
<azeem> right
<Pierre> well, I don't use them for ubuntu or debian, as I do compile myself (as I maintain many php exts anyway), but I got some users requests about zip
<claym> I was reading the guide to contibuting as an uploader and it mentions "you can use dput with the above config file changes" but it doesn't list what those changes are.  Anyone care to shed some light on that?
<Pierre> and I'm taking the hand on gd, I was wondering what is the best way to help you to integrate/test new versions
<crimsun> claym: the foo_source.changes
<claym> Oh I thought it meant changes to my dput configuration
<claym> :)
<azeem> Pierre: the next release is out this month, so we are in bug-fixing mode
<claym> crimsun: Thank you for your assistance.
<azeem> Pierre: best to come back in November for integration stuff I guess
<Pierre> azeem, yes, but it is a general/long term question :)
<azeem> Pierre: well, my advise would be to do the integration in Debian and then merge
<azeem> or find someboy who is interested long-term, if you do not want to become a contributor yourself
<LaserJock> claym: there used to be a config file change
<azeem> (maybe there is somebody already9
<LaserJock> claym: but it isn't needed anymore
<LaserJock> claym: we should fix that. was that on the wiki page?
<Pierre> azeem, ok, I will leave the decision to debian then, to decide when/how to add zip or to use new/decent versions. I sadly do not have the time to maintain packages for my exts or php itself :P
<cbx33> isnt aiglx default in edgy?
<cbx33> i saw a blog post
<cbx33> totally confused now
<LaserJock> yes, aiglx is turned on
<cbx33> LaserJock, when you upgraded
<cbx33> did you get aiglx?
<cbx33> or did it keep x?
<LaserJock> it's built into Xorg
<cbx33> oh i see
* cbx33 wants to hit the upgrade button
<LaserJock> Do it!!
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> maybe when I'm not using my pc :p
<sivang> LaserJock: so aiglx being default means we can tun all sorts of fedora eye candy on it? or just run COmpiz directly on aiglx?
<LaserJock> not exactly sure
<LaserJock> I don't use it
<LaserJock> but you still need to have a compizish program
<Bazzi> sivang: you can use eg beryl
<Bazzi> (or the stock compiz of course)
<sivang> Bazzi: I installed Beryl from soem repository but it didn't like me :)
<sivang> Bazzi: Well, I did try it on Xgl
<Bazzi> beryl's a bitch at the moment
<Bazzi> but it's getting better
<sivang> Bazzi: stock compiz should be working OOTB ?
<Bazzi> I only tried beryl
<ajmitch> hi
<Plug> mornin'
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> shame I missed the meeting
<jelmer> 'morning(?) ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch
<superm1> so  I was curious.  Lets say that you have a bug that was in the release for breezy for some package in universe.  some day later in dapper or edgy days, someone posts a fix, but it won't necessairly be backported back to breezy. does the bug get closed for breezy?
<imbrandon> superm1, it stays open untill its fixed in the latest developemnt release iirc
<superm1> Ok, so if we have stray bugs sitting around that were fixed by newer releases, would it be worthwhile to mark them rejected?
<imbrandon> as fixed not rejected
<superm1> OK then.  i didn't want to just go on a triaging rampage doing something I shouldn't when I came across stuff like that :)
<lophyte> hey all
<imbrandon> ello
<lophyte> ajmitch: did you ever finish that list?
<imbrandon> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<kristog> night *
<cbx33> why is the wine pacakge not avaialble?
<crimsun> Conf wine (0.9.22-0ubuntu1 Ubuntu:6.10/edgy)
<crimsun> looks available to me.
<superm1> imbrandon, there is a slight problem with the upload yesterday from the two myth packages.  the plugins and main package built at the same time.  it appears that the plugins was built against the old main package that was up there.  Could you have the plugins rebuild against the version of mythtv that is now in the repository?
<imbrandon> superm1, sure
<superm1> k thx
<FunnyLookinHat> imbrandon, are you building off the recent release of mythtv .20 or .19?
<FunnyLookinHat> (just curious)
<imbrandon> .20
<FunnyLookinHat> ok awesome
<FunnyLookinHat> thanks for all your work  : )
<superm1> FunnyLookinHat, its actually 0.20 with some of 0.20-fixes pulled back onto it
<superm1> it matches up with what the other distros have out for packages right now
<FunnyLookinHat> Right , i noticed that he released a fix shortly after .20
<superm1> well its actually more beyond that.  that was a fix for mythweb
<superm1> these fixes cover mythweb,dvd,dvb stuff among lots of other things
<superm1> stuff not big enough to warrant a new version
<FunnyLookinHat> oh neat
<lophyte> I'm gonna be playing with myth for the first time soon
<lophyte> what howtos/tutorials do you recommend, superm1?
<FunnyLookinHat> lophyte, #mythtv-users has a few good FAQs and tutorials in the topic
<superm1> lophyte, actually I wanted to help write a edgy specific one after edgy was released
<superm1> how soon you going to start playing around?
<superm1> i can help you thru the process and record as we go
<lophyte> the end of this week, probably
<FunnyLookinHat> I'm going to buy a capture card as soon as edgy is officially released to throw into my media box.   : )
<lophyte> a friend of mine is shipping me a box that I'm gonna use for a myth box
<superm1> Like maybe this saturday?
<lophyte> yeah, hopefully.. depends on when I receive it
<lophyte> it might be here by friday, or it might be monday
<superm1> well i'll try to be on IRC or at least google talk throughout the weekend.  i'd be glad to walk you thru the process and record as we go
<lophyte> cool
<lophyte> i'll be using a hauppauge pvr250
<superm1> okay great.  then we can try out the new ivtv packages in edgy then too
<superm1> make sure they work :)
<lophyte> awesome
<lophyte> the one thing I'm not so clear on though is integrating it with my satellite receiver
<superm1> imbrandon, once edgy is released, who should I talk to on backports to make sure that I can keep up with the other distro maintainers fixes branch, and get these into backports after uploading them to the next development version?
<lophyte> my friend mentioned using an IR blaster but I'm not exactly sure how that works
<geser> can someone build mpg123 0.60-3 (from Debian unstable) on i386 and attach the build log to bug 64924?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64924 in mpg123 "[UVF Exception]  Sync mpg123 (0.60-3) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64924
<superm1> lophyte, can I PM you so we dont corwd the channel?
<lophyte> sure
<lophyte> geser: I'll try it out
<superm1> lophyte, marked you as away
<imbrandon> superm1, https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-backporters ( i'm on that team too )
<superm1> ah wonderful
<cbx33> sorry guys did someone tell me why I can't install wine in edgy?
<cbx33> it's in the repo
<crimsun> you never mentioned which arch you're using.
<cbx33> i386
<crimsun> so what's apt-cache policy for it?
<cbx33> wine:
<cbx33>   Installed: (none)
<cbx33>   Candidate: (none)
<cbx33>   Package pin: (not found)
<cbx33>   Version table:
<cbx33>      0.9.22-0ubuntu1 1000
<cbx33>         500 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
<cbx33>      0.9.21~winehq0~ubuntu~6.06-1 1000
<cbx33>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<cbx33> i need version 0.9.22
<FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, there is a specific repo for bleeding-edge wine builds
<cbx33> 0.9.22 is what I need
<FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, hold on I'll get it for ya
<crimsun> so now what does apt tell you regarding 0.9.22-0ubuntu1 ?
<cbx33> and seems to be inthe repo
<crimsun> apt-get, rather, not apt
<cbx33> no installation candidate
<cbx33> E: Package wine has no installation candidate
<crimsun> right, Candidate: (none)
<cbx33> ah....it has a source package?
<cbx33> but no binary
<cbx33> am i right?
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> your Packages list is fubar
<crimsun> Candidate: 0.9.22-0ubuntu1
<cbx33> how do i fix?
<FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, I'm gonna PM you something quick
<crimsun> when did you last update?
<cbx33> i just upgraded to edgy
<geser> does a minor change in a native package (1.8.23 -> 1.8.24) count as new upstream version which needs an UVF?
<cbx33> and did an apt-get update
<imbrandon> geser, yes
<crimsun> geser: yes, but if it's minor you can just extract the debdiff
<crimsun> [if you don't want to go the UVFe route] 
<imbrandon> FunnyLookinHat, the version he needs is in the official repo
<FunnyLookinHat> imbrandon, so his package lists is just f00bared?
<cbx33> yup taht;s the version I want
<imbrandon> FunnyLookinHat, yes
<cbx33> anyway to fix my repo cache?
<cbx33> like rebuild them or something?
<FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, try a sudo apt-get update ?
<cbx33> i just did that
<FunnyLookinHat> err.
<cbx33> it's left over from when I had the wine repo in there I think
<cbx33> what should I do?
<FunnyLookinHat> rebuild/clean out your sources.list probably would be a good start
<cbx33> it's clean
<geser> crimsun: the important part is a one-line change (fixes an RC bug in Debian)
<FunnyLookinHat> but past that I'm afraid I don't know how to help you.  additionally, you should ask in #ubuntu+1 as that is the support channel
<crimsun> geser: I've already processed it
<crimsun> (sorry, thought you were referring to openssl097)
<geser> no, I was referring to the change in dbconfig-common 1.8.23 -> 1.8.24
<crimsun> geser: seems fine; it's up to you whether you want to choose the UVFe route
<geser> nevertheless thanks for openssl097
<cbx33> wine is in /var/lib/dpkg/status
<cbx33> it shouldn't be
<cbx33> as it's uninstalled right?
<crimsun> if it's critical enough I don't bother requesting UVFe; I just backport
<crimsun> cbx33: grep -nH '^Package: wine' /var/lib/dpkg/available
<cbx33> /var/lib/dpkg/available:15010:Package: wine
<crimsun> make sure that points to 0.9.5
<crimsun> (and yes, it should exist in status regardless)
<geser> crimsun: see bug 64935
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64935 in dbconfig-common "[Edgy]  Update to dbconfig-common 1.8.24" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64935
<superm1> imbrandon, I saw that it just rebuilt, but it looks like it still pulled the old version. Get:126 http://ftpmaster.internal edgy/multiverse libmyth-0.20-dev 0.20-0.0ubuntu4 [253kB] 
<superm1> When does ftpmaster.internal update itself?
<superm1> er wait was that just now that it rebuilt... 2006-10-09 04:36:39 CDT ... is that AM/PM or 24hr
<crimsun> that's 24hr.
<crimsun> i.e., 4:36 AM CDT.
<superm1> yea it would be finishing 20 minutes from now at 4:54, and last i checked my flux capacitor was broken :)
<superm1> k
<joejaxx> i am back :)
<cbx33> crimsun, I'm a little lost
<cbx33> change what to point to 0.9.5
<crimsun> cbx33: no, don't change anything.
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> look in the file?
<ajmitch> geser: if you want a UVF exception for dbconfig-common, please assign it to motu-uvf
<geser> ajmitch: done
<tomveens> does anyone know https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RodrigoBelem ?
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-10
<tomveens> I have the feeling that the packages where he is working on do not find any progress maybe he needs help? Anyone?
<tomveens> anyone can tell me more about this?
<crimsun> hmm
<crimsun> are you referring to bug 33340?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33340 in rp-pppoe "pppoe-server segfaults" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33340
<crimsun> the remaining two bugs mentioned on his wiki page have been marked 'fix released'
<lophyte> back
<jelmer> I've fixed the bzr-svn package - any chance somebody can have another look at #64826?
<geser> lophyte: have you tried to build mpg123 0.60-3?
<lophyte> not yet, I had to run off to dinner..
<lophyte> I'll try it out now
<lophyte> geser: building
<lophyte> where do I get the buildlog from? (never done this before...)
<geser> when you build with puilder build --pkgname-logfile you get a file name *.build in /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<lophyte> ah
<geser> alternatively you can direct all output from pbuilder into a file
<geser> but I prefer the first method
<geser> no need to worry about stdout and stderr
<lophyte> do I need to make any changes to the package first, or just build it?
<geser> just build
<lophyte> alright
<geser> motu-uvf needs a proof that the package builds in edgy
<Toadstool> re
<lophyte> geser: buildlog posted
<geser> lophyte: thanks
<lophyte> np
<rmjb> hey room
<LaserJock> hi rmjb
<rmjb> I dunno if you all saw in the mailing list, but I created a page on the wiki at wiki.ubuntu.com/Acronyms
<LaserJock> heh, was that you?
<LaserJock> I wondered who that was
<rmjb> it would be great if you all, and the other ubuntu members could add to the page
<rmjb> yeah it was me
<rmjb> It'll help new ubuntu hopefuls like me, esp in situations like the motu-meeting earlier
<rmjb> it'd also help you guys, since, when some keeps asking what's this and what's that you can just point them to the page
<LaserJock> :-)
* ajmitch wonders if we can DoS moin with all the debian acronyms
<LaserJock> probably
<rmjb> when updating a package for whatever reason, is a debdiff the preferred format?
<imbrandon> rmjb, yes for most developers/maintainers
<rmjb> and for you guys too? the MOTUs?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> we generally count as developers & maintainers :)
<imbrandon> rmjb, yup ( that falls into the Maintainers )
<imbrandon> hehe
<rmjb> :)
<imbrandon> rmjb, basicly unless someone says they wish it specificly in a diffrent format debdiff is good
<ajmitch> well, looks like the bug count is up again from last night
<ajmitch> we got it down by about 40, but seems that it went up again after I went to bed :)
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/
<ajmitch> nice big drop in the daily bugs
<LaserJock> wow, the weekly all graph is remarkably linear
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> it looked almost exponential for awhile
<LaserJock> I was thinking today of ways to prioritize MOTU bug work
<ajmitch> sorry, the open bugs looked exponential :)
<minghua> geez, you guys are fitting from a dozen points
<ajmitch> I have my priorities... main first :)
<ajmitch> minghua: it's not a scientific study, so who cares?
<LaserJock> minghua: bah, all I need is 3 ;-)
<minghua> ajmitch: sure, just kidding :-)
<zul> ajmitch, heh...xen isnt in main yet ;)
<ajmitch> zul: f-spot is
<LaserJock> but surely f-spot doesn't have any bugs
<ajmitch> :P
<imbrandon> LaserJock / ajmitch , either one of you very good with python ftbs errirs ?
<imbrandon> errors*
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26120/
<ajmitch> imbrandon: "no such file or directory" generally means the same in any language
<imbrandon> well yea but sip is installed
<ajmitch> and it's searching in a relative path, for a .in file
<ajmitch> eg it's looking in it's source tree
<ajmitch> s/it's/its/
<imbrandon> oh snaz, ok i read that wrong, still strange why its ftb thats stock from the repos ( apt-get source )
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon_> woot ok time for some tv, hero's is on
<imbrandon_> bbiab
<zul> tv has ruined my imagination i can think of alot better...umm...yeah
<zul> heh
<zul> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCgbNhnfSBQ
<alexr> Hi there
<alexr> anybody has an idea as to whom should the bug in gramps be assigned?
<ajmitch> it's best not to assign bugs to people
<alexr> Just leave it as is?
<alexr> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/53113
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53113 in gramps "After installing Gramps, double-clicking .grdb file gives "Couldn't display" error" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<ajmitch> yes, if the bug is in debian, you may wish to follow up there
<ajmitch> generally we're a small group trying to care for a large set of packages, so we look at what we can :)
<alexr> ajmitch: it's not in debian
<alexr> ajmitch: and it's really strange
<ajmitch> the bug isn't in debian?
<alexr> Seems like introduced by mistalke
<alexr> Nope
<alexr> Seems like packager's oops
<ajmitch> it doesn't appear to be introduced by any ubuntu change
<alexr> How do you know?
<ajmitch> maybe a change in one of the build tools we use
<alexr> Maybe
<ajmitch> because I looked at the ubuntu changelog
<alexr> Ubuntu compared to debian?
<alexr> or ubuntu to upstream?
<ajmitch> ubuntu to debian
<alexr> Can you point me to it?
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gramps/+changelog
<ajmitch> checking manually now
<alexr> ajmitch: I am told that 2.0.11-2ubuntu installs ~/.local/share/mime/packages/Override.xml and then runs update-mime-database on ~/.local/share/mime
<alexr> ajmitch: And this Override.xml overrides one of the mime types that we properly register
<alexr> ajmitch: I don't run Ubuntu myself.
<ajmitch> the package itself should not touch stuff in ~ at all at install - maybe when it is run
<alexr> Is it possible that shared mime system is doing this?
<alexr> We definitely would not be doing this in gramps
<ajmitch> possible, but I wouldn't know
<ajmitch> only when programs are run would they touch something in ~/.local
<ajmitch> even more odd - the package doesn't appear to have built in ubuntu
<ajmitch> or I've just broken something locally, which is more likely
<alexr> ajmitch: anything I can do to help?
<ajmitch> alexr: well I can't confirm it after installing on my laptop, but I'd need to test more (eg when I can actually see a GUI)
<ajmitch> I'd say that it could have been some other app that decided to have fun with mimetypes
<alexr> The steps necessary to create the reported situation are:
<alexr> 1. Create .local/share/mime/packages/Override.xml
<alexr> 2. Run " update-mime-database .local/share/mime/"
<alexr> How can some other app do this?
<ajmitch> can you explain why a user would end up doing that?
<alexr> ajmitch: the user would not do that
<alexr> it's just what happens
<alexr> I assumed that the packager screwed up
<alexr> but I can see now that this is not the case
<alexr> Ubuntu: shared-mime-info 0.18-0ubuntu1
<alexr> Debian: shared-mime-info 0.19-1
<alexr> Can this be the cause?
<ajmitch> possible but unlikely
<alexr> I'd say unlikely too
<ajmitch> I don't think the Override.xml just magically appeared
<alexr> more than one person reported this.
<alexr> At least 3 that I know if
<alexr> of
<alexr> They would not be screwing up their systems.
<alexr> Only one of them had the knowledge to find out the details on ~/.local
<ajmitch> it could be something unrelated like alacarte, for example
<alexr> I suppose
<ajmitch> or some other tools that play with mime stuff
<alexr> I'll be back in a minute from another machine
<Amaranth> alacarte doesn't touch anything with mime types
<alexr> hi again
<Amaranth_> hi
<ajmitch> Amaranth_: I didn't think it would
<alexr> ajmitch: from http://standards.freedesktop.org/shared-mime-info-spec/shared-mime-info-spec-latest.html
<alexr>  Where the information from these files is conflicting, information from directories lower in the list takes precedence. Any file named Override.xml takes precedence over all other files in the same packages directory. This can be used by tools which let the user edit the database to ensure that the user's changes take effect.
<Amaranth_> alexr: The problem is no package creates files under ~/.local on install and we don't know what app installed it.
<alexr> Amaranth_: Yeah, I understand
<Amaranth_> Lag from hell :/
<alexr> The thing is, 3 unrelated people reported this on Ubuntu
<alexr> they can't all be dreaming :-)
<Amaranth_> They have something in common
<Amaranth_> Forensics :)
<alexr> OK, I guess I'll ask the ones who can reproduce it to delete this stuff and try again.
<alexr> In hopes to catch what's generating the Override.xml and running update-mime-database
<Amaranth_> brb
<alexr> Amaranth: OK, I emailed the latest victim of the Override problem to keep his eyes open
<Hobbsee> right.  i'm not going to get burned.
<Hobbsee> i hope
<alexr> Maybe something will ring a bell and he will recall the use of some smart tool messing up the mime types
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: cooking again? :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, i'm at the uni :P
<ajmitch> I see..
<Hobbsee> comp labs just got evacuated again - and they seemed more paniced than usual
* Hobbsee suspects that wasnt a drill
* Hobbsee smelt components burning.
<joejaxx> hey everyone i was wondering if there wasan ubuntu orphan package list i could look at
<joejaxx> ones that people have stopped maintaining
<joejaxx> or if there is not a list
<crimsun> we don't have 'maintainers' per se, so there's no such list.
<joejaxx> how can i go about creating one?
<joejaxx> oh
<crimsun> i.e., MOTU is in charge of universe and multiverse
<joejaxx> crimsun: well how do i find out which packages have just stopped being maintained?
<joejaxx> or are not included in these future releases because of that
<crimsun> referring to upstream (Debian)? Check Debian's lists.
* joejaxx goes off to find this list
<joejaxx> crimsun: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ :)
<nixternal> whats up with the translation stuff in the repos??  getting alot of IGN
<Toadstool> great! my wifi (which-almost-never-works-cause-of-the-damn-broadcom-chipset) suddenly went up thanks to network-manager going crazy. No wonder my connection barely worked with both wired and wireless network up without routing info..
* Toadstool goes to bed and prepares himself for the NetworkManager nigthmares...
<sivang> morning!
<Fujitsu> Hey sivang.
<sivang> hi Fujitsu , what's cracking?
<Fujitsu> Currently about to mass-file unmet dep bugs...
<Fujitsu> Of course, it'd be nice to tag them all.
<Fujitsu> But noooo, LP doesn't provide a tagging feature via email or anything other than HTTP.
<sivang> ah, have you poked the folks at #lp ?
<Fujitsu> Yup.
<sivang> they might have a solution
<Fujitsu> Nope.
<sivang> how do you mass bug file btw?
<Fujitsu> Email, and lots of it.
<sivang> Fujitsu: no, but how do you find them out? has ajmitch finished his script ?
<Fujitsu> sivang, apt-cache -i unmet does it :P
<sivang> Fujitsu: ah, oops, *sigh* apt-cache is subtle and has lots of option to learn I see..:-/
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<Fujitsu> Heya Hobbsee.
<Burgundavia> hey Hobbsee, Fujitsu, sivang
<Fujitsu> Hi Burgundavia.
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> hi Burgundavia!
* Burgundavia is very tired
<Hobbsee> go sleep?
<Burgundavia> can't
<Fujitsu> Why not?
<Burgundavia> leave for the airport in around 1 1/2 hours
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<sivang> Burgundavia: how was boston?
<Hobbsee> ouch
<Burgundavia> very good
<Burgundavia> I was at Mako's until 2am, so it is not so bad
<Burgundavia> I have cleaned out the spam trap for -devel and -users, cleaned out my inbox, wrote a new spec
<Burgundavia> been quite productive, despite barely being able to put two thoughts together
<Fujitsu> What is said spec regarding?
<Burgundavia> gdm stuff
<Fujitsu> Yay, only 160 sources with uninstallable binaries... Not as bad as I thought.
<sivang> Fujitsu: you have a script for mass bug file?
<sivang> Fujitsu: IMHO you should use one :-)
<Fujitsu> sivang, dholbach had one for last time. I've modified it a bit, and am going to use it.
<Fujitsu> I'm not going to file 160 bugs manually :P
<Hobbsee> just fix them :P
<realist> Is there only a http interface to the bug system?
<Fujitsu> realist, there's a slight hint of an XML-RPC interface, and a crippled email interface, but mostly it's just HTTP.
<Fujitsu> Although the email interface is fairly useful in most cases.
<sivang> I'd say go for the email interface
* Burgundavia bites his tongue about LP
<realist> Burgundavia: I wont ask anymore :-)
<Fujitsu> sivang, I am, yes.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, of course :)
<Burgundavia> realist: there is no sane reason for LP to be closed source
<Burgundavia> maybe it is just because I spent a weekend outside the koolaid at a GNOME event
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, 'tis my view too. I'm rather (read extremely) irritated by it... But that's a controversial topic, and is likely to get me killed.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: I am not afaid to say it
<realist> I'll sit on the fence as far as it's licensing is concerned.
<realist> I can see the benefits from both angles.
<Fujitsu> realist, what benefits in closedness can you see?
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu has lots of smart people in teh community who would hack on it
<Burgundavia> the lack of an XML-RPC interface, general interface brokenness, concern about all of Ubuntu tied to a closed system, etc.
<Fujitsu> For one thing, I would have made the email interface fully functional, if the source was available.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, precisely. There's this absolutely open project, based on absolutely closed infrastructure.
<Fujitsu> And in some cases being held back by said infrastructure.
<Burgundavia> if LP goes away, Ubuntu is screwed
<Burgundavia> this is something nobody is willing to say
<Fujitsu> Although LP does do some things quite well.
<sivang> Guys, it's going to be released open in stages..
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, I've said it many a time... Just not around these parts.
<sivang> read the FAQ :)
<Burgundavia> sivang: Mark has been saying that since Mataro
<Burgundavia> I stopped believing it around last year
<Fujitsu> sivang, I have. But can we believe it? Soon is relative.
<Fujitsu> Soon in geological terms, I can almost believe.
<Fujitsu> If it was intended to be open at some point, it would almost definitely not have been written monolithically in the first place. That seems to be the major issue.
<realist> Ubuntu can't be all things, to all people...
<sivang> Fujitsu: true, an dyou should bare in mind that soon can be stretched for such a complex and large project.
<sivang> realist++
<Fujitsu> sivang, but there wasn't a reason to have it closed from the start...
<Burgundavia> realist: that is totally used arguement
<Fujitsu> realist, that's really not applicable to this situation.
<Burgundavia> sivang: we have just passed 2 years of LP now
<Burgundavia> with no clear roadmap for open sourcing it
<Fujitsu> If it were open, it'd have a huge number of extra people willing to work on it.
<Burgundavia> I wrote a blog post awhile back about it
<sivang> I'm not totally conviced it would get better quicker has it been open sourced. Having lots of people willing to contribute doesn't mean quality will come out of it, nor a clear and assertive project leading be maintained.
<Burgundavia> sivang: you are confusing product leadership with our concerns
<Burgundavia> we are not talking about not having canonical working on it, or even driving the main development
<sivang> and then you would have the LP forks that would probably cripple users promising better results then the original...I think this has to be avoided at call costs, for the moment.
<sivang> Burgundavia: ah, I see, right
<Burgundavia> unlikely you would have forks
<Burgundavia> and somebody else running LP is not a fork
<Burgundavia> there is a clear need for people to control their own infrastructure
<sivang> I guess I don't see this as a problem..
<sivang> People have been using sf.nt and it's still not open source
<Burgundavia> sivang: if LP goes away, Ubuntu loses everything
<Burgundavia> we lose our build infrastructure, our bug database, our specs
<Burgundavia> everything
<Fujitsu> If I were to start a distribution, I wouldn't want all of my information locked up in systems controlled by a company with a gigantic commercial interest in another distribution.
<Burgundavia> indeed
<sivang> Burgundavia: do you really think the people behind the scenens would let this happen? I'm sure they have fallbacks for every part of it.
<Fujitsu> SF is different. SF has little/no commercial interest in such things.
<Burgundavia> if Canonical goes out of business, what happens to LP is what the creditors say
<Burgundavia> in other words, LP would likely be "sold"
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, exactly. All Ubuntu data is out of Ubuntu's control.
<sivang> Fujitsu: Can you be sure of that? how do you know that they do not favor their advertiser's project over "plain" ones?
<sivang> Fujitsu: (just a thought)
<sivang> Burgundavia: hmm
<sivang> Burgundavia: have you asked that someone?
<Burgundavia> at the very least, we need a pledge like the KDE people have from Trolltedch
<sivang> you mean, commitment to continue LP just like Ubuntu Foundation has given ?
<Fujitsu> sivang, who knows. It seems unlikely.
<Burgundavia> sivang: there is no reason why a distro should be using closed source tools
<Burgundavia> no, I have not
<Burgundavia> I am going to raise it with Mark directly
<Burgundavia> plus the fact that Canonical has 30 people working LP is a bit insane
<Burgundavia> I mean a commitment like "If Canonical goes bust, LP becomes GPL"
<Fujitsu> Whereas Canonical obviously has (and has to) have a gigantic interest in Ubuntu. It is really in Canonical's interests to minimise other distributions, though they aren't doing that.
<Burgundavia> contrast LP to RHs Mugshot
<Burgundavia> both are fairly pie in the sky projects
<Burgundavia> Mugshot, from the giant evil RH, is open source
<ajmitch> hi
<Burgundavia> LP, from the friendly Canonical, is not
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<sivang> morning ajmitch
<sivang> ajmitch: Fujitsu is filing mass bugs for umet deps :-)
<ajmitch> oh no
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, or about to.
<Fujitsu> It was decided at the meeting last night :P
* ajmitch sighs
<Fujitsu> ?
<sivang> Burgundavia: http://mugshot.org/ ?
<sivang> not sure what it does.. a bit confusing if that's the link
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> it doesn't matter what it does
<Burgundavia> it matters that RH released it as GPL
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<Burgundavia> even though it is a server service, would clearly be hurt by "fragmentation", etc.
<Fujitsu> That's a seriously bad website >_>
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Burgundavia> all the arguments Canonical uses to keep LP closed soruce
<sivang> Burgundavia: Well, I think LP is a "little bit" more high profile then a blogging component ;-)
<sivang> but yeah, I catch you point
<Burgundavia> mugshot is a lot more than blogging
<realist> I can't see the harm in Canonical protecting its own IP
<Burgundavia> realist: lovely. Lets close Ubuntu then
<Burgundavia> because that is Canonicals "IP"
<Burgundavia> how about upstart
<Burgundavia> lets close that, because clearly it is better to keep that clsoed source
<Fujitsu> But of course.
<Burgundavia> realist: our entire community is built around sharing our "IP"
<Burgundavia> in fact, it is a core piece of why we are having this discussion
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<ajmitch> hello dholbach
<realist> It doesn't appear that way (from an outsider's perspective)
<sivang> morning dholbach
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, if IP wasn't shared, we wouldn't have FOSS, and this issue wouldn't exist, exactly.
<sivang> and hey Hobbsee
<Burgundavia> realist: explain to me how LP is different from Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> why should one be closed and other open?
<Hobbsee> hi sivang
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu, ajmitch, sivang
<realist> LP is merely infrastructure
<sivang> yo dholbach !
<Fujitsu> realist, MERELY!?
<ajmitch> realist: and we run into obstacles with it all the time
<Fujitsu> It is the most utterly critical thing in the entirety of Ubuntu. It cannot exist without it.
<realist> Ubuntu is a marketing buzz-word
<Burgundavia> no, Ubuntu is a distro
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, precisely.
<Fujitsu> It regularly blocks work.
<realist> Use something else then
<Burgundavia> realist: I care about Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> if I didn't, I would move to Debian
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia, same. I'm not leaving it unless I really have to.
<Fujitsu> Speaking of Debian...
<Fujitsu> This is a sore issue with a number of Debian developers.
<Burgundavia> realist: I have spent the better part of 2 years thinking about LP and it being closed source
<Burgundavia> realist: so please don't come in and tell me what to think now :)
<realist> I'm not telling you what to think at all, in fact it's nice to see someone passionate about it
<Burgundavia> one of my earliest bosses told me to "taken ownership" of things you care about
<Burgundavia> this is exactly why we are discussing LP
<realist> Fujitsu: what sore issue?
<Fujitsu> realist, that Ubuntu is supported entirely by a piece of insanely proprietary software.
<ajmitch> realist: that ubuntu is built on non-free infrastructure
<Burgundavia> realist: Debian belives in freedom, to an almost religious level
<Burgundavia> and what ajmitch and Fujitsu said
<realist> That does not suprise me at all then
<ajmitch> seriously, if launchpad went down tomorrow, we'd be in a fair bit of trouble
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, a /fair bit/?
<Burgundavia> being dumb and keeping something closed source is something I expect from dumb companies like Userful
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: mirrors still carry the packages
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: but we couldn't build anything
<realist> Ubuntu obviously has different goals/ideals than Debian
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: no, that'd require some serious hacking of getting dak going again on some hosts
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, noted, but we still lose every bit of data not included in the packages themselves.
<Fujitsu> realist, not entirely.
<Burgundavia> that has nothing todo with LP
<ajmitch> dholbach: sorry I missed the meeting
<Burgundavia> better said: How Ubuntu differs from Debian does not affect LP and its licensing
<realist> Fujitsu: they're noticable enough
* ajmitch went to bed for an hour or so, but the alarm wasn't set properly
<Fujitsu> realist, they are, but freedom is still pretty important.
<Fujitsu> To me, it is very important. I barely tolerate LP, and it can be tedious to use at times.
<Burgundavia> realist: I used to think like you do. Then I started thinking and then I got scared
<realist> Burgundavia: I don't appreciate that comment.
<Burgundavia> realist: no, I am being serious
<Burgundavia> I use to think like you do. I am not impying you are not thinking
<realist> You mean, scared that Canonical has so much control over contributed IP?
<Burgundavia> two issues: how we collaborate with other projects and what if Canonical goes away
<ajmitch> scared that we're talking about terms like IP when it's a free software project
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> basically teh community si currently ignoring the 300 pound gorilla of LP-being-closed sitting amongst us
<Burgundavia> we need to address it
<ajmitch> claims of "it'll be open.. eventually" don't alleviate concerns
<Fujitsu> It is very scary indeed. If Canonical vanishes, or turns evil (however unlikely either of those two are), Ubuntu's data is gone, except for packages. Not a nice thought.
<Burgundavia> especially given I have heard the same line for 2 years with no movement
<Burgundavia> I need to get ready to go
<Fujitsu> "Our goal is to release all of Launchpad as free software, though it will take some time (potentially, years) before that happens."
<Fujitsu> `Potentially, years'
<Burgundavia> might be back on before I leave, but I never know
<Fujitsu> It's been two years now.
<Fujitsu> Who knows how many more it'll be.
<Burgundavia> have a good day/night/morning
<Fujitsu> It could be hundreds, and that statement would still hold true.
<realist> It doesn't necessarily need to be 'open', but a contingency plan should definately be open
<sivang> Burgundavia: laters
<Fujitsu> Bye, Burgundavia.
<ajmitch> bye Burgundavia
<Fujitsu> realist, it does really need to be open. It's just wrong have to something completely open on something completely closed.
<Fujitsu> *based on something
<Fujitsu> Ubuntu is being held back in many cases.
<realist> Depends how idealistic you are.
<Fujitsu> Like, the whole thing that started this argument. The lacking of the Malone non-HTTP interfaces.
<ajmitch> stop painting it as being 'idealists' vs.. realists..
<Fujitsu> And the missing ability of Soyuz to do a rebuild of the archive.
<Fujitsu> (that's not so major, but it's still a bit of an issue, no FTBFS lists for us!)
<ajmitch> there are many cool ideas in launchpad that we'd love to have & could help out with
<ajmitch> but we can't
<Fujitsu> I'd be very willing to help with most LP stuff, especially Malone email/XML-RPC stuff.
<ajmitch> debian has benefited from people trying out new ideas with the infrastructure, with things being open
<Fujitsu> But the code isn't open, and in the current state even if I was allowed to see the code to work on it, I'd have to sign an NDA. And I would never be comfortable signing an NDA for something like that.
<realist> Unfortunately Ubuntu doesn't _appear_ as democratic as Debian.
<realist> Fujitsu: why's that?
<sladen> realist: really?
<Fujitsu> realist, why to what?
<realist> Why would you feel uncomfortable signing a NDA?
<realist> sladen: from my perspective, however (un)informed it may be
<Fujitsu> Because it is completely and utterly against the spirit of FOSS. It is against any ethics I have. It is WRONG.
<realist> Sounds like ideology to me, really.
<sladen> realist: "it" ?
<sladen> Fujitsu: you're as bad, you used three "it"s :)
<ajmitch> realist: so is the ideology of agreeing with not sharing something critical to free software development
<Fujitsu> sladen, it was fairly clear what I was referring to, I believe.
<Fujitsu> A lot of FOSS is ideology.
<Fujitsu> Oops, that didn't come out right.
<ajmitch> so is closed source development - it just follows a different ideology
<realist> I suppose we should lobby sf.net to adopt GPL too?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: did you find the time to file those unmet deps bugs?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, that's what I meant, yes.
<sladen> (Fujitsu: I wouldn't have asked...)
<Hobbsee> can someone give me a example of a decent text editor to code in please?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, vim.
* sivang wonders if sf.net would even allow folks to sign an NDA in order to improve it.
<sladen> Hobbsee: emacs
<ajmitch> realist: yes, many people have been unhappy with sf.net & use other services
<sivang> Hobbsee: emacs
<Fujitsu> dholbach, no, that's what sparked this discussion. I asked in LP if there was a way to do tags via email or any non-HTTP method. There isn't.
<Hobbsee> hmmm ok
<realist> sf.net still have the right to sell their propriatry software
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: then don't tag them
<dholbach> Fujitsu: I added [UNMETDEPS]  to the title last time
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you may just have to subscribe a team to them, or do the title trick
<sivang> Has sf.net ever said something about open sourcing their software?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, I'm not going to, however I it sparked this discussion, and I'm a bit tied up with it at the moment.
<Fujitsu> dholbach, ajmitch: I plan to do the title, yes.
<Fujitsu> And should I subscribe MOTU to them, as last time?
<realist> sivang: I never said it was the perfect analogy, but you get my point.
<dholbach> the script does that all for you
<Fujitsu> dholbach, I know, but is it still a good idea to subscribe MOTU?
<dholbach> you just need to feed it a list of source packages which are affected
* sivang wonders if sf.net has enough backup plans should they go out of bussiness.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: why not?
<realist> I'd personally like to see LP open source... but ultimately it's something beyond my control.
<Fujitsu> I thought it was deprecated.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: doesn't matter, we can still do it
<Fujitsu> OK, shall do.
<ajmitch> that's why the team exists
<dholbach> Fujitsu: no, 'motureviewers' is
<Fujitsu> dholbach, I've heard that motureviewers isn't, and motu is.
* ajmitch burns his unmet deps stuff
* Fujitsu burns LP.
<dholbach> I still assign to motu and don't know which team made motu obsolete
* ajmitch heads back to fixing non-universe stuff, where he can make some difference
<Fujitsu> I think motu was meant to be obsolete with the introduction of ubuntu-dev with the moving to Soyuz... But motu seems to be used for bugs still.
<sivang> ajmitch: like main stuff ? ;-)
<ajmitch> sivang: I can't do anything there
<Fujitsu> Is the old bug text fine? It was as follows:
<Fujitsu> A run of
<Fujitsu>   LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | cut -d' ' -f2 | sort -u | \
<Fujitsu>      xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package | sed 's/Package\:\ //g' | sort -u
<Fujitsu> indicates that the source package plopfolio.app has binary packages that are not
<Fujitsu> installable at the moment.
<ajmitch> I hope you're running that in pbuilder or a clean chroot
<Fujitsu> I'm not, right now, but for the actual thing I was going to use pbuilder login, yes.
<realist> Wonder how much capital investment Canonical has poured into LaunchPad et al? (Just my parting reflection)
<realist> Back later...
<Fujitsu> The `et al' is beside the point. They've poured a whole lot of stuff into Ubuntu, and it's still open. LP is the only closed thing.
<ajmitch> that makes the latin pedant in me come out
<realist> Yes, I know... "other people"
<realist> You get my drift.
<realist> Home time.
<Fujitsu> Bye, realist.
<sladen> realist: I would guess somewhere between $5-$15 for Launchpad
<sladen> realist: million
<\sh> moins
<Fujitsu> Hi \sh.
<StevenK> \sh!
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<dholbach> Fujitsu: filing those bugs
<Fujitsu> Woops, got tied up with some personal stuff... I'll do so now. Oops.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: no, I just did
<dholbach> Fujitsu: no problem - it was easy enough :-)
<Fujitsu> Ah, thanks.
* dholbach hugs Fujitsu
<dholbach> and now they'll blame me for filing 247867246426 bugs
* Fujitsu hugs dholbach.
<Fujitsu> Where 247867246426 == 160.
<Fujitsu> Or thereabouts.
<dholbach> that's bad enough :)
* ajmitch points finger at dholbach 
<ajmitch> :)
<dholbach> GET FIXING!
<dholbach> ;-)
<Fujitsu> It's only 0.25% of the entire history of Malone!
<Fujitsu> dholbach, re. bug #35434, I /did/ give code to reproduce it in the original report.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35434 in librsvg2 "SVGs with duplicate IDs cause Nautilus/eog to crash" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35434
<dholbach> Fujitsu: can you attach a .svg? that'd make it easier for me to test it, get a backtrace, etc
<Fujitsu> Sure, will do so now...
<dholbach> thanks
<Fujitsu> Uploading... Once LP gets around to responding.
<Fujitsu> There we go.
<dholbach> rock and roll
<Fujitsu> It is still reproduceable, of course.
<dholbach> ok
<Fujitsu> Ooh, cunning dholbach.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: hm?
<Fujitsu> The librsvg upload.
<dholbach> yeah ;-)
<ajmitch> cunning?
<dholbach> now I'll go to cook lunch and hopefully debug afterwards ;)
<Fujitsu> Avoiding building debug packages himself :P
<ajmitch> yay, masses of zope syncs
<dholbach> Fujitsu: took a leaf out of seb128's book ;)
<zul> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> zul: pong
<zul> dholbach: just to warn you i might need an uvf exception on thursday fro xen 3.0.3 final
<dholbach> no problem
<ajmitch> thanks :)
<dholbach> no need to warn - just send it in :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: it already has thumbs up from me :)
<zul> heh we'll probably be the only distro that doesnt have xen-unstable when released
<sivang> dholbach: I just uploaded a 0.0.5 hubackup, will it get built or do I need to get an exception for it? (I'd actually like to be able to upload it with an inclusive exception, since any stage I will get before rlease will be better then the current state)
<ajmitch> sivang: you usually ask for exceptions before uploading
<sivang> ajmitch: I know, sorry, I forgot as I rushed for the upload since this is a very important fix :-
<sivang> :-/
* sivang -> must get lunch or die, talk in a bunch.
* ajmitch ought to go & sleep now
<sivang> ajmitch: good night
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody
<Gloubiboulga> hello Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga
<matid> dholbach: error: package directory 'src/data' does not exist
<matid> dholbach: Any ideas?
<dholbach> I need some more information
<dholbach> pastebin the output of    cat debian/*   and    debuild   or something
<dholbach> matid: or upload the package somewhere
<dholbach> matid: please upload the package somewhere
<dholbach> matid: If I can't see what you did, it's hard for me to find out where the error comes from
<bddebian> Heya gang
<elmargol> dholbach: do you know if the telepathy guys are planing some features for people like me who are on more than one machine at the same time?
<dholbach> elmargol: that's not very specific :)
<elmargol> well i need to get my messages on both hosts.
<dholbach> you can ask in #telepathy - with all the discussions they had at the boston gnome summit - they probably have some new plans :)
<elmargol> dholbach: ok thx
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<cvacubo> Good evening.
<LaserJock> hello
<cvacubo> Maybe you can help me ? I created deb package and uploaded to MOTU, but I received the message
<cvacubo> Rejected:
<cvacubo> UploadError escaped upload.process: Unable to find distrorelease: unstable
<cvacubo> What is this distrorelease ?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<cvacubo> Please help me... :(
<tuxmaniac> Anyone getting this "Ign http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/multiverse Translation-en_US" stuff while an update!!??
<cvacubo> What should I make to upload coorectly package ???
<Gloubiboulga> cvacubo, the distro release is set in the changelog
<Gloubiboulga> cvacubo, did you try to the archive or to REVU?
<Gloubiboulga> to upload*
<Gloubiboulga> s/archive/package (damn!)
<Gloubiboulga> grr, "did you try to upload the package to the repos or to REVU?" sounds better
<cvacubo> This is my debian/changelog file
<cvacubo> kde-icons-lila (0.8.2-0ubuntu1) stable; urgency=low
<LaserJock> cvacubo: make sure your debian/changelog entry has edgy in it rather then stable
<cvacubo> * Initial release
<cvacubo>  -- Artem Abramyan <cvacubo@gmail.com>  Sun,  8 Oct 2006 19:42:30 +0400
<cvacubo> Gloubiboulga:  I am uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> why are you doing that?
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> change "stable" to "edgy" in the changelog and upload it to REVU
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Because I want help Kubuntu Community. In Kubuntu.org site I readed for KDE-Icons Lila is Suggested Package.
<LaserJock> cvacubo: right, but you don't have upload rights to Universe
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Can I change stable to dapper and upload or I need only to Edgy ?
<LaserJock> cvacubo: do edgy for now, it will need to be changed later though
<LaserJock> when we know what Edgy+1 will be
<cvacubo> LaserJock: But I joined on LaunchPad.net to Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe  (Approved)
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> which means you can upload to REVU
<LaserJock> when you do that MOTU reviewers will review your package. If it is approved by 2 MOTUs then it can be uploaded to Universe
<cvacubo> LaserJock: OK, Now I need change "stable" on "edgy" and rerun dput ?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> make sure to use dput revu *_source.changes to make sure it is going to REVU
<LaserJock> also, we are under a Universe Freeze for Edgy so your package would need an exception to get into Edgy
<LaserJock> more likely it will go into Edgy+1
<cvacubo> LaserJock: OK, but what about Dapper ?
<LaserJock> it won't go into Dapper
<LaserJock> Dapper has already been released for some months now
<cvacubo> LaserJock: OK, I understand :) Thanks a lot.
<LaserJock> no problem, thanks for the work
<cvacubo> Good bye
<mwolson> if i want an updated package to be included with dapper-backports, do i go through REVU?
<cvacubo> Rejected:
<cvacubo> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Sorry, I changed on edgy and uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com. But I received this message:
<cvacubo> Rejected:
<cvacubo> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<mwolson> cvacubo: have you added yourself to this yet? https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+join
<LaserJock> cvacubo: do not upload to upload.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> cvacubo: use dput revu *_source.changes
<cvacubo> Yes. I have this message You are an active member of this team. You can't join this team.
<LaserJock> mwolson: no, use Launchpad for -backports
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Yes I use dput kde-icons-lila_0.8.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<LaserJock> no
<mwolson> LaserJock: ah ok
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Or I need use dput revu kde-icons-lila_0.8.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes?
<LaserJock> cvacubo: dput revu not dput
<LaserJock> cvacubo: yes, that will send it to REVU
<LaserJock> rather then trying to upload to Universe directly
<cvacubo> LaserJock: OK, thanks :)
<LaserJock> :-)
<kenne> hi
<kenne> anyone here who masters python's distutil ?
<chillywilly> can anyone help? Just trying to make a repo with reprepro and gpgme complains there is no data...what's it looking for?
<matid> Does anyone know a solution to this naughty problem with seahorse-agent and debuild?
<matid> It refuses to sign a package
<cvacubo> LaserJock: I have a little question. I can upload to REVO only on FTP or I can upload on SCP ? If on SCP what login and password I should use that ?
<matid> I have to go around it by: debuild -S -uc -us and later sign the packages with debsign
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Oh sorry, not REVO - REVU.
<LaserJock> matid: don't use seahors? :-)
<matid> Hm...
<LaserJock> cvacubo: only FTP I think. Did dput not work for you?
<matid> LaserJock: Any other suggestions? ;)
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> well there was the suggestion on the -motu list
<matid> LaserJock: Thanks! I'll look for it
<cvacubo> LaserJock: My proxy not allow to upload on FTP :(
<LaserJock> cvacubo: hmm
<LaserJock> cvacubo: can you upload it to some webspace
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Yes, this is a problem :( :( :(
<LaserJock> cvacubo: as long as people can get to it we can review it
<chillywilly> gpgme gave error: No Data
<chillywilly> what does that mean exactly?
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Yes, I can upload to some webspace and I can upload on SCP without problem.
<chillywilly> can't find the gpg key?
<LaserJock> cvacubo: ok
<LaserJock> cvacubo: it's not as convenient for us but that's ok
<cvacubo> LaserJock: What to me to do? I so wished to help Community: (
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: can you try me again (im hoping restarting irssi will do it)
<LaserJock> cvacubo: just upload it somewhere where we can get it
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: ping
<gnomefreak> you get pm?
<LaserJock> nope
<gnomefreak> me neither this time
<cvacubo> LaserJock: Maybe the REVU admins can give me access on SCP?
<LaserJock> I doubt it
<LaserJock> it wouldn't work with the current system either I don't think
<LaserJock> just put it up somewhere and give us the URL
<cvacubo> LaserJock: OK. Do you have jabber ID ? Because my IRC don't work with my proxy and now I connected with my phone with GPRS. But Jabber works with my proxy. I can upload my files and send for you URL.
<LaserJock> laserjock AT jabber.org
<cvacubo> LaserJock: OK, Thanks a lot.
<cvacubo> LaserJock: artem.abramyan at jabber.org it's me.
<cvacubo> Thanks a lot. Good bye
* kristog needs a motu
<LaserJock> kristog: what's the problem
<BHSPitMonkey> hi's.
<LaserJock> hi
<BHSPitMonkey> know if it's possible to go from an autopackage to a deb?
<LaserJock> I don't
<Hawkwind> Why would you be installing autopackages in the first place ?
<LaserJock> he didn't say anything about installing
<LaserJock> :-)
<BHSPitMonkey> there's a package in the repos that's outdated (by a few versions), and their site distributes an autopackage
<LaserJock> do they also distribute a tarball
<BHSPitMonkey> was wondering if there was some practice of converting the latter to the former.
<BHSPitMonkey> yes
<BHSPitMonkey> tis gpl, I'm pretty sure
<LaserJock> grabbing the tarball is easier I think
<BHSPitMonkey> mmk.
<kristog> LaserJock, i will attend to the TB meeting today
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm not experienced with making deb packages, though... is it cumbersome?
<kristog> i'm want to be a motu
<cbx33> kristog, good luck
<kristog> cbx33, thank you :)
<kristog> LaserJock, i don't know what TB needs to know for ?accept? me.
<LaserJock> kristog: what is your LP id?
<kristog> giskard
<kristog> https://launchpad.net/people/giskard
<cbx33> kristog, got a wiki page?
<kristog> cbx33, yes
<kristog> wiki.ubuntu.org/RiccardoSetti
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> you've done a fair amount there ;)
<kristog> ehehe :)
<kristog> what i should provide to TB ?
<LaserJock> people who can vouch for your work
<LaserJock> sponsors
<kristog> uh ok. same as CC
<kristog> thank you
<sivang> re
<BHSPitMonkey> anybody know Tom Cato Amundsen?
<LaserJock> not I
<nixternal> the author of GNU Solfege?
<ajmitch> morning
<jelmer_> hi ajmitch
<sivang> morning ajmitch
<raphink> hi sivang
<sivang> hey raphink , what's up?
<raphink> not much :)
<raphink> dinner time
<raphink> you?
<kristog> hello ajmitch
<sivang> raphink: hacking on home user backup
<raphink> ok :)
<LaserJock> arggg, maxima, the bug that will never die :/
<phanatic> good evening
<whiprush> ajmitch: hey I heard you guys were looking for AMD64 machines to build stuff on
<ajmitch> whiprush: not me personally, but yeah
<ajmitch> hi, btw
<joejaxx> ajmitch: hello :)
<ajmitch> hi
<joejaxx> ajmitch: for some reason apt-get does not want to work with my repository
<joejaxx> domain/fluxbuntu/dists/main/binary-i386/package.deb
<joejaxx> it is skipping over the "main" directory
<joejaxx> Failed to fetch http://archive.fluxbuntu.net/fluxbuntu/binary-i386//fluxbuntu-desktop_0.1_i386.deb  404 Not Found
<jdong> is there anyone of MOTU Media here right now?
* sivang looksto the topic to see if there's a link to the unmet deps list.
<ajmitch> sivang: they should be filed as bugs sometime
<sivang> ajmitch: Fujitsu was up to it, yes?
* sivang recalls he said something about it during the last 24 hours.
<ajmitch> dholbach ran a script - something must have broken
<Fujitsu> I got caught up in some stuff, and dholbach did it instead.
<Fujitsu> So they didn't actually get filed?
<dholbach> I ran it twice
<dholbach> the first time my mail setup was broken
<dholbach> seems it's still broken
<dholbach> or LP is not happy with it :/
<Fujitsu> Is it signing with the right key?
<superm1> dholbach, in the meanwhile, did it log to a file as well as try to mail it to LP?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: yes
<dholbach> superm1: I have the mail server logs and they look ok
<dholbach> superm1: but i'll check it more closely
<superm1> ook
<dholbach> as the bugs didn't get filed: if somebody else wants to do it, go ahead
<geser> most gnustep packages from the unmet dep list have a sync request filed already
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile is the script
<sivang> dholbach: I'll try, do I need a machine with just net connection or full repo on me? :)
<dholbach> local mail server, gpg key set up
<dholbach> and update the list and the instructions file before
<sivang> dholbach: you mean, one that LP knows and loves for upload suffuces ?
<sivang> suffices
<dholbach> yes, lp needs to like it
<sivang> dholbach: cool, do you have anything written up about the instructions file ? is it some sort of configuration file for the script?
<dholbach> no, nothing written up
<dholbach> it should be self-explanatory though
* sivang downloads the script
<sivang> dholbach: okay, got it :-)
<sivang> (I hope ;-))
<dholbach> everybody welcome kristog to the MOTU crew
<kristog> eheheheh :)
<kristog> hello *
<bddebian> w00t, welcome kristog
<kristog> :)
<sivang> welcome kristog !
* kristog happy to be a MOTU
* bddebian hands his badge over to kristog
<LaserJock> kristog: you made it? excellent
<kristog> LaserJock, thank you :)
<LaserJock> anybody know if jono is still banned from freenode? :-)
<kristog> whoa.. why he was banned?
<LaserJock> he was testing something
<LaserJock> and he was automatically kicked or something
<LaserJock> it's on planet
* kristog is reading planet
<ajmitch> welcome, kristog
<ajmitch> kristog: next stop, core dev?
<kristog> ajmitch, not now :) first some motu work :)
<kristog> thank you ajmitch :)
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: last i heard he was waiting for a staffer and crap i should have asked
<ajmitch> kristog: you know that you're going to be pestered for sponsoring debian uploads now? :)
<kristog> debian?
<kristog> why we are on ubuntu-motu ;)
<kristog> ahah
<LaserJock> kristog: are you a DD?
<ajmitch> yes, people want fixes in debian :)
<ajmitch> & new packages
<Pierre> only fixes :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, now everyone knows it
<kristog> LaserJock, today it rains here
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
* LaserJock loves having DDs around
* ajmitch points everyone to the new MOTU who's a DD ;)
<kristog> ajmitch, and you?
<LaserJock> although it doesn't work as well as having a MOTU handy
<ajmitch> kristog: I'm nothing special :)
<LaserJock> DDs can't just upload anything
<kristog> LaserJock, and * i lost my gpg key 3 weeks ago and i have to wait until the 15 16 october for a new sign
<kristog> after 16 i will be happy to review  Debian packages :)
<bddebian> Later folks, congrats again kristog
<LaserJock> darn it!!!
<LaserJock> I was whipping up a batch of super acid
<LaserJock> and my substrates dumped right out of there holder
<LaserJock> s/there/their/
<LaserJock> at least I didn't dump the acid I guess
<ajmitch> :)
<LaserJock> but I was trying to be careful
<LaserJock> lesson learned, teflon is slick ;-)
<sivang> LaserJock: were you trying to create some morr super position and smaller then anything known to man so far? :)
<LaserJock> I was trying to wash $100 pieces of glass with concentrated hydrochloric and nitric acid
<LaserJock> I have a custom made teflon holder for them
<sivang> LaserJock: do you need it hospital quality steralized?
<LaserJock> sivang: not exactly steralized
<LaserJock> completely clean
<LaserJock> striped down to the silicon
<sivang> have you been building printed circuits latley? :)
<LaserJock> when you mix hydrochloric and nitric acid you create a super acid called aqua regia
<LaserJock> it eats glass
<LaserJock> I use that for cleaning my substrates
<sivang> ah, Isee
<LaserJock> no, I don't do electronics too well
<LaserJock> although I need to set up a circuit today on a protoboard
<sivang> the combinations of substances sounded familar from burn washing printer circuits
* sivang has a friend who's all occupied with DIY electronic circuits.
<LaserJock> I'm taking a photodiode and making a power meter for my laser out of it
<sivang> I see
<sivang> can I visit you sometimte, *in* the lab? :-)
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I'll sneak you in ;-)
<LaserJock> give you a little laser light show
<LaserJock> show you what an exploded gas cylinder can do :-)
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> afternoon imbrandon
<superm1> hi imbrandon
<superm1> so guys, post edgy - will there be a new debhelper compat level introduced?
<LaserJock> superm1: depends on what version of debhelper we have
<superm1> how often do we get updates to debhelper then?
<minghua> kristog: congratulations and welcome :-)
<LaserJock> superm1: when they are needed
<imbrandon> kristog, congrats
<kristog> thank you minghua imbrandon
<minghua> superm1: I expect compat level 5 will stay for a long time
<superm1> okay, so just watch out for when new debhelper is introduced.  so what sorts of things change that would require a new debhelper compat
<jfrost> hi
<imbrandon> ohh that means in a few weeks i can bug you too about my DD needed uploads ;) ( will trade for main uploads , just teasin )
<imbrandon> kristog, ^
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hah
<imbrandon> ajmitch, see i cant bribe you LOL
<kristog> imbrandon, you can do it :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: sure you can
<ajmitch> just not with uploads
<kristog> if your sponsor has no time for you :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, heh
<imbrandon> well my sponsor is anibal he pretty good, we just arent on at the same times alot ;)
* minghua is astonished by such open bribery :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: it's called negotiation
* superm1 wonders what would happen if the rest of the community knew what went on to get people's package agendas taken care of.....
<imbrandon> ajmitch, well sometime semi soon , probably after RC i'll have a apt-mirror upload , it will close all the open bugs in debian BTS and be a new upstream version AND be converted to cdbs
<kristog> imbrandon, i cannot promise it to you, but feel free to remember me your Debian needs :)
<imbrandon> ( for debian naturaly else i would just do it myself heh )
<kristog> imbrandon, you are in the NM
<imbrandon> kristog, well i only maintain one package in debian so i dont have alot of needs ;)
<Toadstool> yay! a new DD around! :)
<Toadstool> congrats' kristog
<imbrandon> kristog, no i'm the maintainer just not a DD ( only ubuntu core )
<kristog> ajmitch, i start hating you :)
<LaserJock> wahoo, I got it fixed. Back in the super acid
<Toadstool> heh
<kristog> Toadstool, :)
<Toadstool> and hi everybody, by the way
<ajmitch> kristog: hah, why? :)
<imbrandon> and honestly i'm too lazy to go though the DD process ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-11
<imbrandon> maybe after etch and edgy+1;)
<imbrandon> heh
<kristog> ajmitch, :P nothing :)
<ajmitch> kristog: don't you just love the attention & the fame that comes from being a DD?
<imbrandon> lol
<kristog> what is a DD
<kristog> desktop developer?
<ajmitch> heh
<kristog> donald duck?
<imbrandon> hahah
<imbrandon> daffy duck !?!
<imbrandon> dapper drake developer ?
<imbrandon> DDD
<kristog> imbrandon,  www.donald-duck.nu/donaldachtergrond.jpg
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/drake.jpg
<jdong> isn't DD that thing that wiped my amd64 build box this morning? :D
<kristog> jdong, DD it's a virus?
<Toadstool> DD? I thought it meant Deceived by Dunc-tank...
* Toadstool ducks :)
<kristog> Toadstool,  ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<LaserJock> Toadstool: run faster
<ajmitch> Toadstool: go sit in the corner
<Toadstool> uh :(
<imbrandon> and put on the "D"unce cap
<Toadstool> hah
<jdong> Toadstool: no! that is MY corner! I sit in it and cry and whine and complain until my x264 starts being not 3 months old :D
<Toadstool> now that every DD on this chan wants to kill me, I can go back to work ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> ajmitch, i tell you i got the cross-{compiler,packaging} 99% working ( well it works but if you need extra libs f it cant find them , i guess a path issue in the env )
<imbrandon> s/f//
<kristog> good night :)
<kristog> Toadstool, ahahah :)
<imbrandon> gnight kristog
<kristog> see you tomorrow
<ajmitch> imbrandon: good to hear
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so you may be able to build some basic packages?
<imbrandon> ajmitch, yea i've built a few basic packages just as a test already
<imbrandon> seems to work good
<imbrandon> in that sense
<imbrandon> ( and tested on a real ppc later just to make sure they "actualy" worked )
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Cool.
<jdong> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: warning: can't parse dependency libasound2-dev [] 
<jdong> anyone enlighten me on what that means?
<jdong> edgy dosbox on dapper pbuilder
<jdong> in amd64
<jdong> works in i386
<crimsun> why is the arch list empty?
<jdong> crimsun: I don't know... I didn't touch the source at all
<jdong> crimsun: btw, are you motu-media?
<crimsun> am I a member? yes.
<jdong> crimsun: would you be interested in doing the x264 sync + avidemux patch I requested?
<jdong> I've been unable to catch slomo/nafallo for over a week now :(
<crimsun> bug #?
<ajmitch> slomo has been away
<sivang> jdong: slomo is on a week off, I'm also awaiting him :)
<jdong> crimsun: bug 63842
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63842 in avidemux "UVF Exception Request: x264 to svn20060928 from marillat" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63842
<jdong> sivang / ajmitch: ah, that explains it :)
<crimsun> you've already gotten the two necessary approvals, so it just needs a sync approval note for x264 (u-a is already subscribed)
<jdong> ah, ok
<ajmitch> lifeless: seen bug 65201?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65201 in opensync "upgrade to release 0.19" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65201
<ajmitch> not a particularly useful bug, mind you
<lifeless> ajmitch: yes
<lifeless> ajmitch: and in debian too
<lifeless> while you are there please assign to me, as I'm doing it already
* ajmitch notices that noone is set as bug contact for the package
<ajmitch> ok
<crimsun> hmm
* crimsun scratches his head at the translations causing vlc to FTBFS
<minghua> crimsun: is there a build log to look at?
<crimsun> it fails on all four arches
<crimsun> just pick one: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vlc/0.8.6-svn20060918.debian-1ubuntu4
<crimsun> sk.po most certainly is /not/ empty
<crimsun> err, I guess all five arches
<minghua> crimsun: apparently somehow Ubuntu's translation strip tool got confused, I'm trying to see how
<minghua> crimsun: do you know what does this line in the build log mean: "./.pc/001_1008snap.translations.diff/po/sk.po"
<crimsun> I really have no clue
<minghua> immediately after the failure message
<minghua> crimsun: also I have problem figuring out where this sk.po is from
<crimsun> I presumed that pointed to the part at fault, so I looked at the patch that I included. That's how I know that sk.po in that diff is /not/ empty.
<crimsun> oh, that file is from debian/patches/001_1008snap.translations.diff
<minghua> crimsun: I'll look at that patch
<crimsun> if I remove the sk.po hunk from that patch, vlc will FTBFS anyway
<crimsun> i.e., it comes from debian/patches/001_1008snap.fixes.diff, which updates po/POTFILES.in)
<crimsun> I suppose if I really wanted to kludge it, I could strip that addition from debian/patches/001_1008snap.fixes.diff and then modify debian/patches/001_1008snap.translations.diff, but I'd rather the translations be updated
<minghua> this is really an ugly way to add translations, but oh well
<minghua> (especially considering the .diff.gz didn't constrict all changes in debian/ dir anyway)
<crimsun> well, I could just drop all the translation updates
<crimsun> (again, suboptimal)
<minghua> I wonder if the ./.pc/ dir is something generated by quilt
<minghua> I am afraid that's all I can think of without a local test build
<minghua> and I don't want to build vlc here
<crimsun> I'll ask pitti/infinity tomorrow (later today)
<crimsun> thanks
<chillywilly> what do you do if upstreams distributes a .bz2 file?
<crimsun> it does actually build successfully on ppc, i386, and amd64
<chillywilly> upstream*
<minghua> chillywilly: ususally just bunzip the .bz2, and re-gzip to a .gz
<chillywilly> ok
<minghua> (unless ubuntu already supports .bz2 source packages now)
<chillywilly> does ubuntu support .bz2 source packages? :)
<keescook> sslwrap uses "addgroup" in its postinst, but "adduser" isn't listed in the "Depends".  is "adduser" considered part of the base system, or should I add it as a Depend?
<chillywilly> are there any guidelines for when you should split off a -doc package?
<crimsun> keescook: it's part of ubuntu-minimal and exists in a debootstrapped Edgy.
<crimsun> keescook: (to verify, you can ``apt-cache show ubuntu-minimal|grep ^Dep|grep adduser'')
<keescook> crimsun: ah, I'm running in a buildd variant, so that's why.  I will install ubuntu-minimal on them so they're sane for installs too.
<minghua> I think you need to add Depends: adduser
<keescook> minghua: I've been trying to find other examples (since currently this is an unmodified universe package)
<minghua> keescook: one example I just checked is exim4-config, but in Debian only
<minghua> I don't have an ubuntu system at hand
<keescook> minghua: yeah, I've found other that cite the need too.
<minghua> I remember you can only omit a dependency if it's Essential: yes
<minghua> but can't find this in policy right now
<LaserJock> it's somewhere in there ;-)
<keescook> Should I file a bug in Debian then, too?
<keescook> Hobbsee: what's your opinion on this... sslwrap uses 'addgroup' in its postinst, but lacks a Depends: for adduser.  Since ubuntu-minimal contains adduser, this isn't an ubuntu problem, but it should be a bug for debian?
<ajmitch> keescook: ubuntu-minimal isn't required to be installed either, iirc
<ajmitch> so I'd file a bug
<imbrandon> keescook, sounds right
<imbrandon> ajmitch, we dont depends on ubuntu minimal to be installed ?
<ajmitch> I didn't have -minimal installed for a long time
<jdong> imbrandon: nobody forces anyone to have ubuntu-minimal installed
<ajmitch> you can remove it safely, -desktop & -standard don't depend on it
<imbrandon> heh okies, as ajmitch said then ;)
<imbrandon> jdong, right but -no- installation comes without it was my point, i know it can be removed
<keescook> and -desktop doesn't contain adduser, so it's a bug for ubuntu too.  :)
<minghua> oh, I am sure adduser get dragged in by -desktop somehow
<jdong> yes, adduser does get dragged into desktop
<ajmitch> crimsun: are you sure it's dragged in with debootstrap?
<jdong> but still... I shouldn't be able to remove adduser and keep sslwrap
<keescook> apt-cache --recurse depends ubuntu-desktop | grep adduser
<minghua> my opinion, FWIW, is it is definitely a bug, and worth reporting to debian
<ajmitch> certainly
<keescook> minghua: okay, for sure, bug -> debian.  I will fix it for edgy as well.
<jdong> yay
<ajmitch> crimsun: iirc I had to add -minimal when setting up a xen domain
<keescook> ajmitch: I didn't get it with debootstrap (which is why I noticed: my build chroot is very tight)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, seems so http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26225/
<jdong> everything is more exciting when it's a bug :D
<crimsun> I: Resolving dependencies of required packages...
<crimsun> I: Resolving dependencies of base packages...
<crimsun> I: Checking component main on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu...
<crimsun> I: Retrieving adduser
<minghua> keescook: as it doesn't make any difference in ubuntu, I probably won't change it in ubuntu, but that's your call
<keescook> I should say, deboostrap --variant=buildd doesn't include it.  :)
<ajmitch> right, adduser is dragged in there, but is ubuntu-minimal?
<jdong> minghua: umm, it affects ubuntu, just in corner cases
<jdong> i.e. those who try to remove adduser should not get to keep sslwrap
<minghua> jdong: yeah, I see the buildd debootstrap argument now
<jdong> so I don't see why that should be excluded from ubuntu
<crimsun> ajmitch: I don't believe so, though my point was that it would have to be added since it's only in a debootstrapped edgy
<jdong> ah, so it'd be a backports booby trap :D
<keescook> I think I'm going to just do the debian bug report, and leave the package as-is, since I'm just doing a build1 on it to get the new openssl lib.  sound sane, or should I fix the adduser dep and make it an ubuntu1 version?
<chillywilly> are there any guidelines for when you should split off a -doc package?
<crimsun> u-u-s queue cleared, hooray
<imbrandon> yay \0/
<chillywilly> ajmitch: hi
<ajmitch> hello chillywilly
<ajmitch> crimsun: thanks for that, I've been slacking on sponsoring
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 3h 3m 3s ago, quiting: "Quitting, send all complaints > /dev/null"
<lophyte> bah, just missed him.
<minghua> chillywilly: I remember hearing something like /usr/share/doc/ consisting 60% of your package size (assuming the package is arch:all), but probably no hard rules
<keescook> hah.  sslwrap is dead in debian anyway.  *sob*
<ajmitch> yay!
<ajmitch> orphaned or removed from sid?
<keescook> removed from sid.
<lophyte> hey ajmitch.. did you ever hip up that list?
<lophyte> whip*
<ajmitch> lophyte: yes I did, and yes it doesn't matter anymore
<lophyte> it doesn't?
<ajmitch> no, they're doign a mass-file of bugs instead
<lophyte> I see
<lophyte> so I should check bugs on LP to find work?
<ajmitch> yes
<lophyte> okie dokie.
* imbrandon cries at MOL
<ajmitch> imbrandon: hm?
<imbrandon> well there is a new upstream release ( first one in AGES ) that fixes OSX Tiger booting in MOL without a dirty hack from an obscure website
<imbrandon> that would close the only bug in malone for MOL .... BUT
<imbrandon> ( theres always a but huh )
<imbrandon> its a packageing mess, the new tarball dosent drop right in, new upstream thats a gentoo dev, and no debian maintiner anymore ( he seems to have passed a whole back in a car crash )
<ajmitch> oh dear :(
<imbrandon> but its a semi popular package so i was trying to update it
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> s/whole/while
<imbrandon> that and it only compiles on a PPC , and only is intened to run on a PPC , thats not a big deal but the existing package says "any" so it reports FTBS on the buildd's
<imbrandon> ( thats just minor though )
<imbrandon> s/reports FTBS/reports FTBS on any arch but PPC/
<minghua> what is the mol 0.9.71.dfsg-2 upload I see in Debian incoming then?  it sure has a new maintainer
<minghua> not sure if it's the recent version though
<imbrandon> oh wow , its in incomming ? yea 9.71 is the new upstream
<imbrandon> version
<imbrandon> guess it just needs to be syncd ( after i test ) good catch
<imbrandon> someone must have adopted it, as the original maintainer is not ummm alive anymore
<imbrandon> good good good
<minghua> yes, new maintainer is a team
<imbrandon> cool
<ajmitch> that makes your job a whole lot easier
<imbrandon> IMHO it would do debian proper good to adopt the "ubuntu way" of maintainership , but that would probably take an act of god
<crimsun> well, quite a few teams already do that
<minghua> I sure hope debian doesn't adopt that
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the 'ubuntu way' being having a mess of packages & maybe half of them being overlooked before release?
<minghua> the NMU procedure is fine as it is
<imbrandon> ajmitch, true
<ajmitch> I'm glad that debian has specific maintainers
<imbrandon> but more teams would be nice, kinda hybrid ( same for ubuntu also , more specialized teams then MAIN / MOTU )
<imbrandon> in that sense
<imbrandon> but we kinda already do, hell i'm just rambling
<minghua> imbrandon: yes, teams are good, but the "everybody can touch the package even he doesn't know much about it" policy is not
<ajmitch> sure, some convergence of beahviour does happen
* imbrandon test builds the new mol
* minghua has made such mistakes himself
<imbrandon> ok building now, crimsun you said we can sync from incomming correct ? ( assuming the build works out ok and dosent need any ubuntu changes )
<ajmitch> note that ubuntu doesn't tend to work on the 'everyone touches it' principle at times - many packages are the domain of 1 or a few people
<crimsun> imbrandon: best to wait til enters the pool, really
<Plug> Summer soon
<Plug> I can't wait to enter the pool :)
<ajmitch> 'soon', yet we've just been having snow in Dunedin lately
<imbrandon> right , only that they CAN , not that they would , i'm sure if i tried to upload a kernel patch without talking to the right people and knowing EXACTLY what i was doing i would cactch hell and be lucky to keep my membership let alone upload rights heh
<crimsun> well, you'd catch the bad end of a fabbione stick probably
<imbrandon> but thats one thing to know about anything ( ubuntu or not ) , know when you dont know ( and know where to find the awnsers )
<imbrandon> crimsun, haha yea
<ajmitch> crimsun: that would be worrying
<lifeless> imbrandon: a benc stick probably
<imbrandon> probably a whole bunch of sticks ;)
<minghua> ajmitch: true.  improperly touched packages are rare.  unfortunately that still happens
<imbrandon> nice kde 3.5.5 giving the buildd's a workout
<Toadstool> re
<imbrandon> wb LaserJock
<imbrandon> LaserJock, are you at one of your ppc's ?
<imbrandon> or at home
<LaserJock> I don't have a ppc
<LaserJock> only macs ;-)
<LaserJock> and no, I'm at home  now
<imbrandon> kk
<LaserJock> finally in Ubuntu again after a day of OS X
<imbrandon> only macs ? you mean intel ? heh
<imbrandon> ppc's are mac's too ;)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> phhh
<imbrandon> LaserJock, hehe welcome back to sanity ;)
<LaserJock> I sure wish I could use Ubuntu practically at work
<LaserJock> I could dual boot, but I don't think my boss would like it if he found out
<ajmitch> keescook: did you add adduser to sslwrap Depends?
* ajmitch presumes not, with a build1 suffix
<LaserJock> anybody know of a good jabber client besides gaim?
<chillywilly> gabber?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: psi?
<LaserJock> ok, another silly user question, is it possible to make it so you can drag the top panel around?
<LaserJock> in gnome
<LaserJock> s/can/can't/
<chillywilly> you can drag it to 1 of the 4 edges of the desktop if you grab it on an empty spot
<LaserJock> I want to lock it
<Toadstool> < LaserJock> anybody know of a good jabber client besides gaim? <-- gajim? :)
<Plug> LaserJock: gajim
<Plug> or gossip
<chillywilly> you actually typed 'can' though
<LaserJock> chillywilly: but then I typed s/can/can't/ ;-)
<LaserJock> gajim?
<chillywilly> I don't see any options for locking it
<LaserJock> I didn't see anything obvious
<LaserJock> maybe something in gconf
<imbrandon> LaserJock, kopete ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, I certainly use that when I'm in KDE
<imbrandon> ;)
<LaserJock> but gaim seems to be doing funny things
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ever tried bitlbee ? i like it, i use it alot
<imbrandon> its an irc to IM gateway thing
<LaserJock> that just sounds scarry
<imbrandon> heh all your contacts show up in a #bitlbee room and you talk to each one by saying their nick like " LaserJock: blah "
<imbrandon> as they sign on they join the room etc ( but works like IM where they only see what you type to them etc )
<imbrandon> and not other contacts
<Fujitsu> That could end up being /really/ bad.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, heh how is that ?
<Fujitsu> If you have to say there name, it'd be trivial to make a mistake.
<Fujitsu> *their
<imbrandon> nah there is a error bot that lets you know if you dont say a name first
<imbrandon> you get used to it real fast
<Toadstool> imagine you want to say something to someone but mistakenly tell the thing to the wrong person :)
<Fujitsu> Toadstool, exactly. In certain conversations, that could be horrrrrrrifically bad.
<Toadstool> yay! :)
<imbrandon> heh not any harder than in an IM with the wrong window
<imbrandon> hum whats the proper meta package to build-dep on for kernel headers, linux-kernel-headers ?
<chillywilly> dave chapelle is one funny dude
<imbrandon> err i guess linux-libc-dev
<crimsun> imbrandon: no, that was deprecated by linux-libc-dev (for glibc); you'll want to ping benc about which to use (linux-headers-generic or whatnot)
<mwolson> note that with the "private" option set in bitlbee (which is what i do), each buddy conversation has its own window, much like a normal chat client
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Have a look at something like LRM, or vmware-player-kernel-modules-2.6.17-10
<TheMuso> That may give you an idea.
<ajmitch> reminds me that I need to pester the xen guru again
<LaserJock> hmm, was synaptic reniced or something
<mwolson> the main downsides of using bitlbee for chat are (1) being unable to set user info about yourself and (2) being unable to join jabber chat rooms
<chillywilly> if upstream just uses a Makefile and no autotools one has to make sure it installs into $DESTDIR?
<TheMuso> mwolson: You are aware you can join/create MSN chats?
<mwolson> TheMuso: yes, which is i qualified the above with "jabber"
<chillywilly> hmm, this thing looks like it uses $ROOTDIR...
<mwolson> s/is/is why/
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee!
<micahcowan> ...is in the hizzouse!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock!
<LaserJock> hehe, bug 65236
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65236 in stellarium "Stellarium can be upgraded in Dapper" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65236
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!!!!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: heh.
<LaserJock> I guess people sometimes don't get the idea of having a "release"
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: indeed.  i just rejected it for you
<LaserJock> did you do it nicely?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> well, yeah
<Hobbsee> ish
<ajmitch> nice for Hobbsee, that is
<Hobbsee> i pointed to the relevant section of documentation, and gave a link supporting it
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.  i'm incredibly not nice, so..
<Hobbsee> and crazy
<minghua> Hobbsee is quite nice when without her pointy stick :-)
<Hobbsee> minghua: are you sure?  i've aslo been defined as a bitchy psychopath.
* minghua looks up psychopath in dictionary...
<Plug> thats nothing
<Plug> you want the DSM4
<Plug> or to watch the movie "The Corporation"
<Hobbsee> minghua: crazy person, usually
<Hobbsee> or insane one
<minghua> Hobbsee: yeah I got that in the dictionary, but thanks anyway
<Hobbsee> :)
<minghua> see, Hobbsee IS nice
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> minghua: well, i didnt axe murder ajmitch when he was over here, so i must be a little nice...
<ajmitch> the subsequent therapy helped me a lot
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Toadstool> :D
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool
* LaserJock whips out the DSM IV
<LaserJock> surely Hobbsee is somewhere in here
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah....and?
* Hobbsee wonders what the DSM IV is
<LaserJock> the mental health diagnostic manual
<LaserJock> my wife is a counselor
* ajmitch wonders why LaserJock is so familar with that book..
<ajmitch> aha, a likely excuse..
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm a genuis that's why. I know *everything*
<Hobbsee> ah
<LaserJock> you should see our library
<LaserJock> she's got the social sciences covered pretty well
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<LaserJock> I've got the natural and physical sciences
<LaserJock> and between the both of us we've got quite a bit of the humanities
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu
<ajmitch> and together you will rule the world, etc..
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, wrong tense there.
<LaserJock> our computer room has 3 book shelves
<LaserJock> well, between the2 of us we've been at uni for 15 years :-)
<LaserJock> you tend to collect some books in that amount of time
<Fujitsu> I would presume so,
<LaserJock> and both of our undergraduate degrees were pretty general
<LaserJock> anyway
<LaserJock> the DSM IV is *the* mental health diagnostic manual, at least in the US
<Toadstool> don't read it, you might find out that you are totally insane :p
<LaserJock> nah, you learn just how normal you are
<LaserJock> :-)
<Toadstool> heh
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you could have also mentioned dapper-backports to that stellarium bug reporter
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: good point.
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: hehe, i knew that anyway.
<Toadstool> :)
* jdong sends stellarium through his pbuilder before heading back to bed
<jdong> grr that's a big orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> mostly data I think
<LaserJock> I think Hobbsee is just bluffing
<LaserJock> she's really like a cuddly little kitten
<LaserJock> an just wants a pony ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<jdong> configure: error: freetype library not found
<jdong> ./configure: line 12356: exit: please: numeric argument required
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course she is :)
<jdong> missing build-dep?
<nixternal> anyone here a master with "hostap" wifi cards?
<LaserJock> grr, my connection has been really weird the last week
<LaserJock> it like stutters
<jdong> LaserJock: I need libfreetype6-dev in build-deps for it to build in my dapper pbuilder
<jdong> for stellarium
<nixternal> da, da, da, da you here, here, here, here LaserJock?
<LaserJock> well, I'm connecting to my work computer to do irssi
<LaserJock> and like every 30s to 1min. it lags for a few seconds
<nixternal> ahh
<jdong> stellarium builds fine otherwise
<jdong> so, any MOTU's willing to add a build-dep to stellarium?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> does it have the same problem in edgy?
<jdong> I suspect on edgy one of the other b-d's automagically pulls it in
<jdong> as it builds in edgy
<jdong> though I can't see how it'd /hurt/ to add in the build-dep anyway
<Toadstool> /hurd/ ?! Barry, get out of jdong's body!
* Toadstool hides
<LaserJock> jdong: you on dapper now?
<jdong> LaserJock: I got it handy in a vmware
<LaserJock> jdong: I was wondering what this gives: apt-cache rdepends libfreetype6-dev | wc -l
<jdong> LaserJock: 48
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> it's 43 in edgy
<LaserJock> I was just curious
<jdong> so, how do you want to handle stellarium, LaserJock...
<jdong> the backported package works fine in Dapper
<jdong> at least to the degree that I know how to freakin use stellarium
<LaserJock> heh
<jdong> that is one of my most amusing incompetencies :)
<jdong> not knowing how to test if a backported package works or not
<jdong> boy do we have some strange packages in universe :)
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we have do good ones in MOTU Science
<LaserJock> I dislike the TeX ones mostly
<jdong> oh boy
<jdong> I just attach debs to the bug report for that :D
<jdong> the OP can test it all he wants
* Hobbsee goes off to work
<minghua> it may be stellarium's fault, or the fault of some -dev package which stellarium build-depends
<jdong> mmmkay, well, I should REALLY be going back to bed now :)
<jdong> if anyone makes any groundbreaking discoveries, comment in bug 65236...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65236 in dapper-backports "Stellarium can be upgraded in Dapper" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65236
<LaserJock> jdong: ok
<LaserJock> good night
<jdong> nighty night
<Hobbsee> or not.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: not going to work?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i am.  but i start at 4, not 3 :P
<bluefoxicy> work at 4am?
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee I swear you are just attracted to ungodly early working conditions.
<ajmitch> bluefoxicy: why do you assume 4am?
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: yeah, well.  4pm
* Hobbsee doesnt do mornings
<bluefoxicy> oh.
<bluefoxicy> I don't know, because most businesses here close around 4pm aside from retail
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: i'm in retail.
* bluefoxicy assumes most people have careers for some reason.  He's been looking into getting one himself but, perplexingly, they all want him to have "experience" to get an "entry level" position....
<Hobbsee> but the same here
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: yes, i've noticed that too.  most annoying, that
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  I feel your pain
<bluefoxicy> last time I worked in retail the guys were all cruder than me
<LaserJock> that's saying something ;-)
<bluefoxicy> yes I know
<Hobbsee> hah.  yeah.  being caucasian is *not* good for working in retail.
<bluefoxicy> caucasian?
<Hobbsee> at least i know how to make them really embarrassed now :)
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: ie, white
<bluefoxicy> what's that have to do with it?  o.o?
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: at least here?  a lot.  most of the more sleazy people are also *very* racist.
<LaserJock> I've never had a "real" job. Not that I didn't want one exactly.
<LaserJock> I applied for a fast food job once
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sadly some people in australia are known for that
<LaserJock> got turned down ;-)
<bluefoxicy> heh
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: you dont want to be in fast food anyway :P
<bluefoxicy> I have a pirate job
<ajmitch> LaserJock: overqualified? :)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: it's better not to know, i'm sure
<bluefoxicy> I get paid by someone I'm not employed by to do random work sometimes
<bluefoxicy> not sure how that happened
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, well probably
<bluefoxicy> and I can't seem to shake them off, I keep telling them no :/
<LaserJock> I tend to have a scientific "mad professor" quality
<LaserJock> scatterbrained, slow, and distracted
<LaserJock> not very good qualities in fast food
<Toadstool> heh
<bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  I have the 'burn-out' quality that I'll take a huge problem, attack it, melt my brain, then distance myself from it forever as a defense measure.
<bluefoxicy> I seem to be in that last stage with my memory allocator.  The readahead-ng library I'm writing may be small enough that I'll finish it by then (first thing I'll ever finish...)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: perfect for the world of academia
<LaserJock> ajmitch: exactly
<LaserJock> I love academia
<bluefoxicy> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you plan to stay in academia & teach?
<bluefoxicy> I hate kids, so I could never be a teacher
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes
<LaserJock> I love libraries
<ajmitch> cool, remember us when you collect your Nobel prize ;)
<bluefoxicy> libraries psh
<bluefoxicy> google
<LaserJock> bah, google
<LaserJock> google is ok for quick stuff
<bluefoxicy> I don't do long reads.
<LaserJock> but gimme a book anyday if I want to really learn something
<bluefoxicy> I'm a technical reader; I get the information I need at the time.  I don't intend to read a chapter of anything, fiction or function.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hehe, I've already got a list started of people I've got to take to Oslo ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course if you persist in putting all your time into Ubuntu, you'll never make it to Oslo ;)
<LaserJock> yep, but it's a worthwhile sacrafice
<bluefoxicy> hey hey
<ajmitch> heh
<bluefoxicy> he might fruit Ubuntu for Starving People
<bluefoxicy> and get the nobel prize for solving world hunger
<LaserJock> no thanks
<LaserJock> I do need to get back into my PhD
<LaserJock> I've hardly done anything on it since Jan.
<LaserJock> and then thay just *had* to have the next dev summit in Mountain View :/
<bluefoxicy> Karl Gauss had the most awesome Ph.D. thesis in history.
<bluefoxicy> When he was 14 he submitted it
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a shame
<bluefoxicy> Was titled, "The Unified Theory of Algebra"  :D
<bluefoxicy> I really wish I was a friggin' genius like that sometimes, so I could actually get some work done; I don't know if I'd be less bored because I'd have something to do, or more bored because my brain would be too powerful to keep occupied.
<LaserJock> one of the guys I really respect is Blaise Pascal
<bluefoxicy> I don't really "respect" anyone, I just think some people are awesome
<minghua> if there is ever somebody getting a Nobel because of Ubuntu, I would bet that be Mark rather than LaserJock :-)
<minghua> so I suppose LaserJock had better stick to chemistry
<LaserJock> :/
<LaserJock> what if I got it for revolutionizing chemistry with Ubuntu :-)
<bluefoxicy> I passed chem on probability mods
<bluefoxicy> I actually picked random answers on my test because I had nfc how to do the math or what half the stuff even meant
<bluefoxicy> and got a C
* LaserJock feels the stabbing sensation in his heart
<LaserJock> almost as bad as yesterday when I got on orkut
<LaserJock> and found like 4 times as many "I Hate Chemistry" groups as "I Love Chemistry" groups :(
<bluefoxicy> haha
<bluefoxicy> Come on man, chemerstry r haurd
* psusi had ap chem in highschool so just wrote the formulae on the back of his hand and aceed the chem tests in college, while everyone else was hyperventalating trying to study in the lab
<psusi> ap chemisrery definately did suck though... well, the tests did anyhow
<psusi> class was fun... my teacher was insane and liked to blow shit up
<bluefoxicy> ooh I had a teacher like that in 7th grade
<bluefoxicy> she had one nonfunctional arm
<bluefoxicy> the circuitry inside it got damaged or smth, was weird.
<LaserJock> yeah, we are doing lots of research on how to get people to actually learn and appreciate chemistry
<LaserJock> chemistry has just about the largest set of information that students have to learn
<bluefoxicy> LaserJock: hint:  teach it to chemistry majors instead of computer science majors who don't give a crap.
<LaserJock> especially Physical Chemistry, which is my area
<psusi> a chunk of Lithium metal or thermite got me interested ;)
<LaserJock> I believe *everybody* should learn chemistry to some extent
<bluefoxicy> yeah yeah yeah
<bluefoxicy> you know what
<psusi> one day the teacher even spattered nitrogen triiodide all over the floor before we came in
<LaserJock> it really is everywhere
<bluefoxicy> I think we should teach second graders 6502 ASM
<bluefoxicy> and move them up to C in fifth grade
<bluefoxicy> everyone should know linux and know how to write code
<LaserJock> heh, C might be useful at least
* ajmitch loved studying chemistry
<bluefoxicy> actually assembly is very useful; when i code in any language I have a very accute view of what I'm doing to the machine, in graphic detail.
<bluefoxicy> of course
<LaserJock> as a society, the US really needs more science education
<minghua> well, I don't know.  neutrinos are everywhere, too, I think most people are better off not knowing anything about it :-)
<bluefoxicy> any language that's not C is completely impossible to solve any useful problem in
<LaserJock> we are making decisions based on things we don't even know
<bluefoxicy> hah yeah
<LaserJock> that's sad and dangerous, IMO
<bluefoxicy> everyone is on the global warming bandwagon
<bluefoxicy> what was it, 86% of the country said global warming impacted their life "significantly" or something?
<bluefoxicy> back in 1970, everyone was frightened over "global cooling" (not kidding)
<bluefoxicy> we really ARE randomly making decisions about stuff we don't understand :P
<minghua> LaserJock: US education system has more important things to sort out... like decide whether to teach intelligent design or evolution
<LaserJock> minghua: there is a lot more important things then that
<LaserJock> :-)
<bluefoxicy> minghua:  and how to promote racism most effectively without sacrificing the thin veil of covert operation
* bluefoxicy mumbles something about 'diversity' courses and slightly altered history...
<LaserJock> anyway ...
<bluefoxicy> i need sleep
<niru> hello all
<niru> I want to have a repository that will automatically update and automatically compile the packages to ubuntu
<niru> Is there any automation tool
<niru> FunnyLookinHat:hello
<FunnyLookinHat> greetings niru
<niru> I want to have a repository that will automatically update and automatically compile the packages to ubuntu
<niru> Is there any automation tool
<FunnyLookinHat> I don't think you have a repository defined correctly in your idea.
<FunnyLookinHat> Are you saying you want to have your own repository (server) that will mirror several main ubuntu repositories and automatically update to reflect any changes in the main servers?
<niru> yes
<niru> And if possible automatically compiling the packages to add ubuntu name
<ChaosFan> wg 38
<FunnyLookinHat> Well yes, there is a way to set that up, but I'm not aware of it.  Basically what you would have is a computer that would act as a server for you, and every day it would run something along the lines of "apt-get update" "sudo update all"
<FunnyLookinHat> The packages are already compiled when they are put onto repositories.
<niru> No If I want to take debian packages then i need to compile it to my needs right?so tool for that?
<niru> FunnylookinHat:may I get information on who will help me here
<niru> Any email-id
<niru> FunnylookinHat:are you there
<FunnyLookinHat> niru, sorry I'm not very free at the moment
<FunnyLookinHat> Try looking in here in about 16 hours, the channel will be more active  : )
<niru> Will I get any help here on this regard
<FunnyLookinHat> Oh definitely
<FunnyLookinHat> The other good place to ask would be #ubuntu-devel
<niru> ok
<minghua> niru: I still don't quite understand what you want to do
<FunnyLookinHat> minghua, he wants to setup his own repository mirror
<minghua> niru: is your mail goal to mirror all the existent packages on an ubuntu mirror
<minghua> niru: or you want to automatically compile other packages that doesn't exist in official ubuntu archive yet
<minghua> niru: the former is pretty simple, the latter is rather complicated (AFAIK)
<niru> minghua:at present I just want to make my server up with auto updation facility from upstream as well as auto compilation of packages
<niru> I have refering to upstream which is debian
<niru> So whatever updation is going on in upstream the same should take place in my server automatically
<niru> and those updated packages should get compiled to xyz1.2..3.elfy.deb etc
<niru> is it possible
<niru> if so which tool i need to use
<FunnyLookinHat> Oooooh.
<FunnyLookinHat> Then don't bother using ubuntu.  : )
<FunnyLookinHat> Debian repos do not work well with ubuntu ones because of dependency issues.
<FunnyLookinHat> well, that's to put it simply.
<FunnyLookinHat> It's quite much more complicated.
<FunnyLookinHat> But I have to go to bed...  I can try to figure something out for you tommorow  : )
<niru> shall I give my email id
<niru> otherwise it may be too late
<minghua> niru: so you don't want any compiled packages from debian, but compile everything by yourself instead?
<niru> yes
<niru> minghua:any help from you?
<niru> Any tool
<minghua> niru: what you want is called a buildd
<minghua> niru: http://www.debian.org/devel/buildd/
<minghua> niru: and as I've said, it's complicated
<minghua> niru: and I also don't see it has anything to do with ubuntu either
<niru> minghua:but I can give a trial?
<niru> How ubuntu maintaines
<minghua> niru: I don't know more.  I didn't even read the page I pointed you too
<minghua> s/too/to/
<niru> minghua:i am asking about ubuntu
<niru> ubuntu repository....
<niru> How it gets updated as debian repository gets updated
<niru> And also compiles automatically
<minghua> niru: the tool ubuntu uses is called soyuz: https://launchpad.net/products/soyuz
<niru> is it for both updation and compilation
<niru> Any knowledge on gentoo--what they might be using
<dholbach> good morning
<xerxas> Hi
<niru> xerxas:hello
<niru> xerxas:do you know how to use soyuz
<xerxas> no
<xerxas> sorry
<xerxas> (Hi niru)
<Fujitsu> niru, `use' it?
* Fujitsu turns off Sender column display in his u-u-s folder. It's really too predictable.
* minghua is reminded that he should learn how to use mutt's folder-hook
<niru> Fujitsu:I did understand what you asked
<Gloubiboulga> hello MOTU world
<niru> hello Gloubiboulga
<niru> Any idea on mirror server
<lastnode> imbrandon, ping
<iapx8088> a bit OT
<iapx8088> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/10/11/0142216.shtml
<iapx8088> did you hear that?
<Fujitsu> This will be... interesting?
<ajmitch> sigh, very public, and lots of speculation from uninformed people
<jsgotangco> eh?
<iapx8088> I'm I was never fond of reiserfs
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: rampant speculation abounds about hans reiser
* ajmitch prefers to ignore it all if possible
<jsgotangco> well foss people have colorful lives for sure
<jsgotangco> ;)
<Q-FUNK> rampant speculation about a lot of stuff being used to justify the unjustifiable, these days :(
<kristog> hello
<jsgotangco> hi
<Fujitsu> geser, good luck :)
<geser> thanks
<Fujitsu> You should do fine, you've done a lot of MOTU stuff.
* Hobbsee wonders what this is for
* geser is going for ubuntu membership
<Fujitsu> I got an email informing me about a change to CommunityCouncilAgenda.
<Hobbsee> ahhh...
<pirast> hi, could anybody tell me what ${misc:Depends} in the Depends section in debian/control means?
<StevenK> It's a substvar used by dpkg.
<StevenK> If debconf is used, debhelper will expand ${misc:Depends} out to debconf | debconf-2.0
<niru> can anybody help me in setting up a mirror server
<niru> that will have auto updation feature and auto compilation
<pirast> StevenK, thanks...
<pirast> I am currently wondering why bigloo-devtools depends on libgcj7, it is not mentioned at any place in the debian/control. Have a look at bug 65282 Any ideas?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65282 in bigloo "not installable in edgy" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65282
* Hobbsee looks
<StevenK> pirast: libgcj would come in from the shlibs:Depends
<pirast> StevenK, thanks again. And what does shlibs:Depends do exactly?
<StevenK> Depends on packages that are linked against.
<Fujitsu> A rebuild could fix it, couldn't it?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm about to check that.
<Fujitsu> Thanks Hobbsee :)
<pirast> hehe
<pirast> StevenK, thanks..
<pirast> but then, we are running into bug 65292
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65292 in bigloo "FTBS" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65292
<pirast> and finally into bug 65289
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65289 in skribe "not installable, not buildable" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65289
<StevenK> Whee, they depend on one another.
<Hobbsee> yay for circular dependancies
<Fujitsu> YUp.
<Fujitsu> Woooohoo. What fun.
<Fujitsu> How do we resolve circular build-deps!?
<Hobbsee> usually, you remove one.
<thom> Fujitsu: get an LP admin to bootstrap for you, or remove one if it's not essential
<pirast> so fujitsu, do you try to solve it?
<Fujitsu> pirast, I'm about to go to bed, so not right now... And I've got exams in two weeks, so I'm sort of busy at the moment :)
<sivang> dholbach: you mentioned yesterday that the instructions file needs to be updated for hte mass file, which updates were you referring to?
<pirast> fujitsu, good night then :)
<sivang> (interesting thing is that I see no mention there for grepping over universe)
<dholbach> sivang: updates?
<dholbach> sivang: unmet dependencies
<pirast> anyone who is willing and able to solve it?  :-(
<phanatic> good afternoon
<niru> phanatic:any idea on server setup
<phanatic> niru: what server setup?
<niru> we have our own mirror server of debian
<niru> now i want to have some automated tool for auto updation
<niru> as and when the debian repository gets updated with some new or modified packages
<niru> And also auto compilation of all the 15000 packages with a suitable name as extension
<niru> Is there any automated tool available for this
<Fujitsu> Why do you need to recompile them all?
<niru> like ubuntu does
<niru> We may not modify anything in the code but just to have our own name
<Fujitsu> You have made modifications to the packages?
<niru> only want to add our site name and packagename.boss1.deb etc in debian changelog folder
<niru> for one package we can do manually
<niru> but for all packages its difficult
<niru> so if any automated tool is available.........
<phanatic> niru: it's not automated for ubuntu either...
<phanatic> if you mean the -XubuntuX versions
<niru> What the server should do is update the server with new packages as well as compile them and store
<niru> ye something like XubuntuX
<phanatic> that's added by people manually (or the MoM script maybe, i haven't used that)
<niru> phanatic:then what for ubuntu is using soyuz
<niru> soyuz : its a tool for that purpose right?
<phanatic> dunno, i'm not a motu, haven't used soyuz yet :)
<phanatic> i mean for uploads
<niru> when can i see those peoples related to these queries in this channel.any idea?
<sivang> dholbach: I updated the list of packages, yes
<sivang> dholbach: but that's about it no?
<dholbach> sivang: be sure to check the instructions file to, to see if it needs changing
<dholbach> you added source package to it, right?
<sivang> dholbach: this is how it looks:
<sivang> LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | cut -d' ' -f2 | sort -u |  xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package | sed 's/Package\:\ //g' | sort -u
<sivang> does this only finds bin pkgs?
<sivang> *find
<dholbach> no it doesnt
<dholbach> it's easy to check
<sivang> dholbach: I'm not sure I follow what oyu want to add to it, that is, is it not working only on bin OR source pkgs, and you want me to add support for bin Or source pkgs, or both? :)
<dholbach> no no
<sivang> please explain :-)
<dholbach> just file those bugs on source package
<dholbach> apt-cache showsrc <something> | grep Package            shows the source package line
<sivang> ah sure, it has 'showsrc' there, so it will
<dholbach> that's why I said: "it's easy eo theck"
<sivang> I alreayd checked that then :-)
<dholbach> ok good
<sivang> I got confused over what you are asking
<sivang> dholbach: hmm, I see the team that is going to be subscribed with the bugs is 'motu':
<sivang> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/people/motu
<sivang> dholbach: don't we want it to be ubuntu-dev ?
<thom> sivang: can i recommened dctrl-tools rather than all than apt-cache showsrc sedery?
<sivang> thom: what wrong with using it?
<thom> sivang: there are better ways, that's what
<dholbach> sivang: no
<dholbach> sivang: please motu, please
<sivang> dholbach: sure thing, just wanted to double check :)
<dholbach> motu has universe-bugs@ as contact adress
<sivang> dholbach: ah cool
<thom> sivang: "xargs grep-aptavail -s Package -n -F Package -X " is the same as "xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package | sed 's/Package\:\ //g' " for a start
<sivang> thom: hmm, but it seems that the latter is more human readable, IMHO
<thom> but horribly fragile
<thom> you're relying on the fact that no-one adds an XS-Debian-Package-Maintainer: field or the similar
<sivang> hmmm, I see
<sivang> thom: I could improve the former with stricting the search for only 'Package' not part of another string
<thom> sivang: just use grep-dctrl
<thom> it's what it's there for
<sivang> thom: okay, I'll use your line :)
<niru> sivang:I want to have autoupdation tool for my server
<niru> and also auto compilation tool
<niru> Is it available in debian or ubuntu
<niru> what for is ubuntu using soyuz
<sivang> niru: sorry, I'm not sure I follow you.
<sivang> dholbach: what do you use to make it not ask you the passphrase all the time?
<chillywilly> why would something depend on netbase?
<chillywilly> it uses the perl module or update-inetd?
<StevenK> chillywilly: It requires /etc/services?
* StevenK has a package that Build-Depends on netbase.
<thom> or update-inetd, yeah
<chillywilly> was looking at pop-before-smtp
<dholbach> sivang: install a passphrase agent
<sivang> dholbach: I went for gnome-gpg, but I'll remore it after this is done, I don't trust it too much ;-)
* sivang prefers to type passphrase time after another for regular packaging and simialr stuff
<kristog> hey guys, motu-people have a TODO?
<sivang> dholbach: I've started mass filing, still I can't see anyting on LP
<dholbach> takes a while
<sivang> yeah, firgures
<sivang> figures, even
<sivang> dholbach: 175 bugs filed and queued :-)
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> thanks
<sivang> dholbach: my pleasure :)
<jdong> crimsun: ping regarding x264 UVFe
<jdong> (according to p.u.c empty pings are frowned upon now :D)
<lophyte> p.u.c?
* geser starts closing unmetdeps bugs for fixed gnustep apps
<lophyte> geser: need a hand?
<jdong> lophyte: the planet
<lophyte> ahh
<geser> lophyte: feel free to help
<lophyte> geser: alrighty
<lophyte> what are you working on atm?
<geser> I will start with 65481 and then go down
<geser> dholbach: is it ok to close unmetdeps bug which are fixed but the packages are sitting in the build queue?
<dholbach> geser: absolutely
<Hobbsee> geser: yeah....else they'll get lost anyway
<Hobbsee> http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Please work on this list! http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a
<sivang> ah, I see people already started with unmetdeps. Then there's no use to send an email to ubuntu-motu with notification that unmet deps have been filed already ?
<sivang> Hobbsee: :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: :)
<sivang> we've got nice synchronization
<lophyte> geser: I'll start at bug 65310 and work up
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65310 in plopfolio.app "[UNMETDEPS]  plopfolio.app has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65310
<sivang> Hobbsee: btw, there are a couple of unmentdeps that dholbach also filed and never got attention
<Hobbsee> sivang: rename them?
<sivang> Hobbsee: huh?
<sivang> stuff like https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird-locale-es/+bug/41508
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41508 in mozilla-thunderbird-locale-es "[UNMETDEPS]  mozilla-thunderbird-locale-es has unmet dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<geser> lophyte: some gnustep apps still needs fixing, don't close them
<Hobbsee> sivang: ahh yes.  that's in that search too.
<lophyte> geser: I don't think I can close them anyway
<sivang> Hobbsee: you just set it 'newest first' :)
<geser> lophyte: you can set those to "Fix Released" which closes them
<lophyte> ah
<Hobbsee> sivang: exactly.  i was thinking of all the firefox and mozilla locale bugs that got ignored in dapper and will likely get ignored in edgy too.
<lophyte> I won't, then
<Hobbsee> seeing as most of them havent been updated anyway
<sivang> indeed. :-/
* Hobbsee decides to look at those all later.
<lophyte> geser: do I need to change the build-deps on some of these packages?
<lophyte> ie. the build-deps for this are libgnustep-gui0.10-dev but there's no such package.. should that be changed to libgnustep-gui-dev ?
<geser> yes
* sivang -> out
<geser> lophyte: see http://librarian.launchpad.net/4777181/debdiff for the changes needed for talksoup.app
<lophyte> alright
<Hobbsee> geser: want me to upload talksoup.app?
<geser> please do, less work for crimsun :)
<geser> lophyte: on which package are you working atm?
<lophyte> plopfolio.app
<Hobbsee> geser: done talksoup.app
<geser> lophyte: already done, see bug 65081, it just need to be build by the buildds
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65081 in plopfolio.app "[Sync Request]  plopfolio.app (0.1.0-4) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65081
<lophyte> ah.
<lophyte> then bug 65310 should be closed?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65310 in plopfolio.app "[UNMETDEPS]  plopfolio.app has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65310
<geser> yes
<lophyte> alright.
<geser> lophyte: see http://tinyurl.com/n385o for those packages which are sync already and only needs building
<lophyte> geser: should I close the unmetdeps bugs that are open for those packages?
<geser> yes
<lophyte> okay
<lophyte> geser: bug 65327 isn't listed on your sync requsts... I suppose I should take a look at it?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65327 in rssreader.app "[UNMETDEPS]  rssreader.app has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65327
<geser> rssreader.app is still open
<geser> debian has a new upstream version
<lophyte> what should I do with it then?
<crimsun> jdong: hi, what regarding x264 UVFe?
<jdong> crimsun: kamion wants a dev to say that he approves of the sync
<jdong> that's why there's no sync approval yet
<geser> dholbach: gnustep packages from the unmet dep list which have a new upstream version in debian, should a uvfe be filed or should they simply be rebuild?
<crimsun> jdong: right, I mentioned that yesterday. What's the bug #?
<jdong> bug 63842
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63842 in avidemux "UVF Exception Request: x264 to svn20060928 from marillat" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63842
<dholbach> geser: that depends on your judgement
<crimsun> jdong: done.
<jdong> crimsun: thanks
<geser> lophyte: for rssreader.app file an uvf exception as the new version fixes an grave bug reported in debian
<lophyte> okay
<lophyte> what info should i attach to the bug report?
<lophyte> a changelog diff?
<chillywilly> conffiles is for config files that the package should manage?
<geser> lophyte: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sivang> lots of app are uninstallable due to
<sivang> epends: gnustep-back0.10 (>= 0.10.2) but it is not installable
<sivang>              Depends: libgnustep-base1.11 (>= 1.11.2) but it is not installable
<sivang>              Depends: libgnustep-gui0.10 (>= 0.10.2) but it is not installable
<sivang> are there going to get synced / fixed ?
<azeem> not sure whether Debian finished the transition/whatever it is, either
<bddebian> Didn't geser request sysncs of all the gnustep packages?
<bddebian> Err re-syncs even
<geser> for most of the packages yes
<sivang> geser: okay, cool , so will this sync those same packages or bring in new ones that the gnustep apps depende on? (has there been a transition?)
<sivang> ah, I see azeem's comment about the transition :-)
<geser> see http://tinyurl.com/n385o for the sync request I filed
<sivang> so once those are in, we all just need to do a reuild of the depending GNUstep packages yes?
<azeem> not sure whether it is accurate
<geser> all are done but are sitting in the build queue
<sivang> so they need a kick, or release from NEW ?
<geser> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/open.app/+builds?build_state=all
<geser> I don't know if something can be done to speed it up
<geser> according to my notes 20 gnustep apps still need to by looked at
<sivang> looked in besides missing deps?
<geser> as in "have ubuntu changes" and "rebuild or uvfe"
<sivang> right, I see.
<geser> in the first run I looked only at those which could be synced directly
<sivang> when was that?
<geser> yesterday
<sivang> I see
<geser> yesterday all the necessary new gnustep packages (gnustep-{back,gui,base}) were available from the archives
<geser> I'm working with lophyte to fix the remaining gnustep apps
<lophyte> I'm building the new rssreader.app and attaching the buildlog to my uvfe bug
<sivang> if I accidently assigned a gnustep package to me, feel free to take it
<lophyte> geser: cenon.app has a new upstream version but it doesn't seem to have fixed any serious bugs, just a new version... what should I do with it?
<lophyte> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/c/cenon.app/cenon.app_3.81-1/changelog
<lophyte> latest ubuntu ver is 3.80-2
<Bazzi> let it go into edgy+1 I think
<Bazzi> the UVF must mean something ;)
<lophyte> I'll just rebuild it then
<lophyte> its not serious enough for a uvfe
<dholbach> so who does an uvf for xdg-utils and updates to 1.0?
<dholbach> so we can say "we have portland 1.0 too" :)
<geser> lophyte: I would say also do a rebuild
<lophyte> geser: working on it.. what should I do with the resulting package?
<geser> generate a debdiff and attach it to the bug
<geser> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<lophyte> alrighty.
<chillywilly> what goes in conffiles?
<chillywilly> abolute path(s) to package managed config files?
<chillywilly> absolute too
<lophyte> geser: there's an unmet dep bug here but the package doesn't even exist -- meta-gnustep
<lophyte> bug 65332
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65332 in meta-gnustep "[UNMETDEPS]  meta-gnustep has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65332
<geser> meta-gnustep is the source name. the binary packages are gnustep, gnustep-core, gnustep-core-devel, gnustep-devel, gnustep-games, gnustep-core-doc
<lophyte> ahh
<lophyte> I assume it needs rebuilding, then
<geser> lophyte: I've looked at your cenon.app debdiff
<geser> XbuildY is only for no-change rebuilds
<lophyte> oh, changing the build-deps counts as a change.. right
<geser> yes, the new version should be 3.80-2ubuntu1
<lophyte> thanks for pointing that out
<geser> and mentioning what you have changed in the changelog makes it easier when going a merge in the future
<geser> you don't then need to dig for the changes
<lophyte> fixed
<lophyte> sorry about that
<geser> lophyte: looks good
<geser> lophyte: to get your debdiff uploaded subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team (I've already done it for cenon.app)
<lophyte> okay
<lophyte> geser: meta-gnustep doesn't need any changes, it just needs a rebuild
<kristog> sivang: you are in the ~galago group?
<geser> lophyte: then add only a changelog entry
<lophyte> alright
<geser> lophyte: have you also checked the several binary packages in debian/control?
<geser> Depends: gnustep-make, libgnustep-base1.11, libgnustep-gui0.10, gnustep-back0.10, gnustep-ppd
<geser> those need to be updated
<lophyte> do they? it built fine for me..
<lophyte> oh, right
<geser> yes
<lophyte> those are install deps
<lophyte> sorry
<geser> the resulting binary packages still have the old depends
<lophyte> the new depends have no version numbers, right?
<geser> no, libgnustep-base1.11 -> libgnustep-base1.13, libgnustep-gui0.10 -> libgnustep-gui0.11, gnustep-back0.10 -> gnustep-back0.11
<geser> only the -dev packages have lost the version
<lophyte> the new packages are in the repos?
<geser> you can find them by apt-cache search gnustep-back
<geser> the rebuild packages depend on them
<lophyte> none of the new packages show up on p.u.c for some reason
<lophyte> but they show up in apt-cache
<lophyte> that'll show me for using p.u.c
<geser> I usually use apt-cache search to search for the new names and apt-cache madison to check package versions (when checking version depends)
<JohnFlux_> Hi, I want to make a package to install the needed windows drivers for samba + cups integration
<JohnFlux_> it will wget the files it can't put in the package
<JohnFlux_> do i just make the package then upload?
<lophyte> geser: k, done that one.. bug 65332
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65332 in meta-gnustep "[UNMETDEPS]  meta-gnustep has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65332
<keescook> so, if I wanted to watch the LP status of a package I uploaded (webfs), where would I see it?  Right now it doesn't show up under and build state in the "View Builds" page.
<lfittl> somebody here, maybe from motu-uvf, who could tell me if uvf exception is needed for php-doc sync (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/phpdoc/+bug/53710)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53710 in phpdoc "Please re-sync with debian, there's a newer version" [Undecided,Needs info] 
<lfittl> dholbach: ^^^, could you take quick look at it? (php-doc sync)
<geser> lophyte: I've already done waiho.app (request remove) and edenmath.app (merge)
<lophyte> geser: alright
<lophyte> I did meta-gnustep and just finished gnustep-examples
<lophyte> going on to projectmanager.app
<dholbach> lfittl: looks ok - talk to infinity about it
<lfittl> dholbach: err, you mean talk to infinity to sync it, or to find out if it needs an exception granted?
<dholbach> lfittl: it doesn't need an objection - just talk to infinity to get it done
<dholbach> i.e. coordinate with him :9
<lfittl> k, thanks :)
<lophyte> geser: just finished projectmanager.app as well
<kristog> sivang: did you only a rebuild for libgalago-gtk?
<geser> lophyte: note: zipper.app is a sync but it waits on renaissance (synced) to appear in the repos
<lophyte> alright
<lophyte> I'm working on gorm.app now
<geser> pantomime1.2 is done
<lophyte> gorm.app fails on build
<lophyte> GormPrivate.m:308: error: cannot find interface declaration for 'NSControlTemplate'
<geser> have you also tried already the new upstream version from Debian?
<lophyte> no
<lophyte> but that would require a uvfe wouldn't it?
<geser> yes
<lophyte> I'll try the upstream version then
<lophyte> if the upstream version works, should I file a uvfe?
<geser> yes
<CarlFK> is it bad to build a .deb on an edgy box and install it on a dapper box?
<lophyte> geser: how do you apply a diff, again?
<geser> CarlFK: in most cases it won't work because of the newer dependencies
<geser> lophyte: patch -p1 < diff
<lophyte> isn't it patch -p0 something
<lophyte> k
<geser> it depends on the patch and from which directory you call patch
<geser> use --dry-run to test if you got the right value
<CarlFK> geser: k - I'll just build it on my dapper box
<CarlFK> I did it on my 'test box' to see if it would work, forgot it was edgy
<geser> bb in a few minutes
<CarlFK> once I build a new foo.deb, can I just "dpkg -i foo.deb" or should I "dpkg --purge foo" first?
<CarlFK> apparenly it was time fro gaim to quit :)
<lophyte> wb geser
<geser> lophyte: I see the new version of gorm.app builds
<lophyte> indeed it does
<lophyte> I filed a uvfe
<lophyte> bug 65531
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65531 in gorm.app "UVF exception: gorm.app 1.0.8-2" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65531
<CarlFK> sorry for posting and crashing, which means I may have never posted, or missed the answer... if I am upgrading a package, do I need to "dpkg --purge" the old one before I -i the new one?
<kristog> sivang: ping
<keescook> CarlFK: I don't think so.
<CarlFK> keescook: thanks.
<pef> hello
<ajmitch> morning
<JohnFlux_> ajmitch: yes!
<JohnFlux_> ajmitch: maybe
<phanatic> evening
<lophyte> heya ajmitch
<superm1> hey guys.  whats the correct way to handle packages that broke with the bash -> dash switch?   is switching the top line from #!/bin/sh to #!/bin/bash acceptable?
<lophyte> hey superm1
<superm1> hey
<lophyte> I doubt I'll have that box by this weekend to set up myth on, btw
<superm1> oh thats a shame
<lophyte> it probably won't come until next week
<superm1> well i started to assemble a wiki page that everything will go in
<superm1> if you want to look at it
<superm1> http://wiki.ubuntu.com
<superm1> er let me get the link
<superm1> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MythtvEdgyInstallGuide
<lophyte> nicew
<superm1> the headings are fairly broken right now and a lot more content will have to go in
<superm1> but its a start, and i'd like to have it polished and acurate by edgy time
<lophyte> I'd be happy to help out :)
<lophyte> I'm working on building an IR blaster.. just need a few parts
<geser> superm1: fix the script to be posix compatible if possible
<superm1> geser, okay.
<superm1> lophyte, well I'm going to get vmware going and test what information I have in a VM to verify that I am describing everything right, and having a second set of eyes will help out great
<superm1> i unfortunately run a good mix of edgy, dapper, and gentoo at home making it hard to make a clean start for myth
<lophyte> ahh
<lophyte> well as I said.. I'll be going from scratch
<superm1> good then
<lophyte> I'm gonna download the edgy beta server CD
<lophyte> I'm doing a combined frontend/backend, but I'm gonna install the server and then apt-get a small wm
<lophyte> one howto I read suggested using ratpoison
<superm1> yea what i plan on putting in is what i do with openbox at home
<superm1> its easier to configure then ratpoision
<superm1> in my opinion
<lophyte> openbox?
<superm1> just another small WM
<lophyte> ah
<lophyte> is it possible to stream live TV from the myth box?
<superm1> can always add pieces describing several ways to do it
<lophyte> it'd be neat to be able to watch TV on my computer via the myth box
<superm1> lophyte, lets go in pm so we dont crowd the channel again
<lophyte> alright
<enyc> MeeeMeep...
<enyc> This may be too late todo anything about for edgy...
<enyc> but I would like to see the debian freedoom 2.4.5 in ubuntu... rather than being stuck with old 2.2.6 -- iirc does not have the smooth demo recording!
<LaserJock> enyc: you can file a Upstream Version Freeze (UVF) exemption with a changelog and bugs-fixed listing
<enyc> LaserJock: hrrm this package isnt even in ubuntu yet
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> then that's a Feature Freeze exception
<enyc> i
<enyc> im confused ;-)
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> well right now everything is frozen
<LaserJock> for edgy
<LaserJock> but there are exceptions made for important things
<chillywilly> if the upstream Makefile uses ROOTDIR should I just set that then before I call make or should I patch the Makefile so it uses DESTDIR? It seems this variable ROOTDIR does the same thing
<chillywilly> why doesn't anyone answer these simple packaging questions of mine :)?
<lifeless> chillywilly: because noone was around at the time ?
<lifeless> and if you dont need to patch, dont patch
<chillywilly> that's what I was thinking too
<chillywilly> path of least resistence
<tseng> brandon: :/
<tseng> you are wearing about my name
<brandon> huh ?
<crimsun> (his name is also Brandon)
<tseng> he knows
<brandon> ahh no i dident heh
<brandon> gah why am i not imbrandon ? hrm
<tseng> brandon is my username
<imbrandon> tseng, heh
<imbrandon> i must have gotten cycled
<tseng> s/about/out
<tseng> oops
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-12
<TheMuso_> Hey all.
<TheMuso_> Gotta love that huge increase in mail from the universe bugs list.
<crimsun> fwiw, I did process them as quickly as humanly possible given my work constraints.
<keescook> weird, I tested building this on amd64.  and yet that's the only thing that failed in the buildd's.  Can anyone help explain this one to me?
<keescook> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/aolserver4-nsimap/3.1-3build1
<keescook> compare the i386 build to the amd64 build...
<LaserJock> crimsun's a machine
<StevenK> LaserJock: I'd agree with that.
* StevenK goes to deal with something for motu sponsors to find out that crimsun beat him and uploaded the thing already.
<minghua> LaserJock, StevenK: I would disagree.  crimsun is better than a machine.
<LaserJock> minghua: oh fine, you're right
<FunnyLookinHat> LaserJock, have you or anyone made any progress on getting the new source for gnomesword to work with clucene6?
<LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: I think the Debian maintainer is looking at it
<FunnyLookinHat> ooh ok, awesome.  I'll talk to him and see how soon we can get that fixed to sync up from deb repos
<LaserJock> glasseyes is the DD
<FunnyLookinHat> I'll see if I can help him out
<Toadstool> I HATE windows and clearcase ! 1 hour lost, 3 crashes, 2 reboots just to checkout a file and modify 3 tiny lines...
<zul> Toadstool: sounds like fun
<Toadstool> I wish I could finish that in about 30s seconds in a real stable dev environment and spend the remaining time on MOTU stuff :p
* Toadstool -> work
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> This keyboard really needs a clean. Damn slash key is starting to stick.
<nixternal_> ssh bttux.cod.edu
<nixternal_> yes
<Plug> Password:
<nixternal_> ssh -l johnsonr bttux.cod.edu
<nixternal_> star*chart
<nixternal_> clear
<nixternal_> ls
<nixternal_> cat ip
<Plug> Hmmm.
<azeem> nixternal_: ehm?
<ajmitch> impressive
<Plug> nixternal_: I'd change that now if I were you. :)
<nixternal_> doh
<nixternal_> that is odd
<ajmitch> maybe you tripped a keylogger's dump function :)
<nixternal_> heh
<nixternal_> oh well, enjoy hacking the school server
<nixternal_> ;)
<minghua> nixternal_: hope you don't use that password anywhere else
<nixternal_> heh, that is the stupid server password here
<Fujitsu> Profiling the boot sequence on this laptop gained a whole 0.6 seconds! How useful... not.
* Fujitsu grabs bootchart.
<nixternal_> passwd
<nixternal_> star*chart
<nixternal_> v1ct0r1a
<nixternal_> v1ct0r1a
<nixternal_> v1ct0r1a
<nixternal_> passwd
<nixternal_> v1ct0r1a*l4ur3n*j0hns0n
<nixternal_> rm ip
<nixternal_> ls
<Plug> Is your wife's name Victoria Lauren Johnson?
<ajmitch> nixternal_: creative, but probably not quite what you wanted
<minghua> *cough*
<nixternal_> man
<nixternal_> there is a huge bug in konsole
<Plug> (or in nixternal_ ;)
<Fujitsu> ... what did you make it do!?
<Fujitsu> Hey LaserJock.
<nixternal_> im trying to make a password, and the server kicked back and error
<ajmitch> nixternal_: simple, use GNOME
<nixternal_> doh
<Fujitsu> ajmitch, exactly!
<nixternal_> exit
<ajmitch> heh
<Plug> ./kick nixternal_ as requested! :)
<nixternal_> whatever i type in the one konsole it spits out here..that is e.tarded
<Fujitsu> Great.
<Fujitsu> Use GNOME!
<Plug> gnome-terminal
<Plug> it's greater now than ever.
<Fujitsu> No Hobbsee/i*mbrandon around, otherwise I'd be dead!
<Plug> I think this proves beyond doubt that you have been misguided with your undying love for Kubuntu. ;)
<minghua> let's just hope ubuntu irc logs don't have too much google juice
<nixternal_> hehe, they will have access to a server ;)
<ajmitch> minghua: there's a lot of google juice in those logs
<LaserJock> hmm
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> I need to figure out why my dns keeps dropping
<ajmitch> why resolvconf is broken?
<LaserJock> no, this is in OS X
<LaserJock> I finally figured that I can unplug my network cable and plug it back in and it fixes it
<LaserJock> but why it drops it in the first place is a mystery to me
<minghua> LaserJock: dhcp or static ip?
<LaserJock> static
<minghua> no idea then, I was thinking about dhcp lease
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if it's some sort of energy saver thing
<ajmitch> probably a 'feature'
<Henry_Bean> hi, there are some repository available for e17 amd64 packages?
<ajmitch> not in Ubuntu
<Henry_Bean> just because nobody has packed it or some other issue?
<ajmitch> pretty much
<Henry_Bean> somebody knows why the ebuntu project has only packages for i386?
<ajmitch> because ebuntu made packages with checkinstall that can't be put in the distribution
<LaserJock> because they only have i386s
<ajmitch> & so we can't take a source package of theirs & build it for others or distribute it
<LaserJock> bah, my boss just tried using my Ubuntu machine
<Henry_Bean> oh :( there is no way to generate a dsc file from a checkinstall?
<LaserJock> and of course Xfig doesn't work
<LaserJock> no
<Henry_Bean> crap
<ajmitch> no, checkinstall doesn't create proper packages in any form
<LaserJock> Henry_Bean: you want to make e17 source packages? :-)
<LaserJock> ok, well that's wierd. Xfig locally give font errors and the fon't look real bad
<LaserJock> but if I ssh -Y into the box and run it it's fine
<Henry_Bean> i never did a package from scratch, just play a little with dsc changing dependencies and a reaaaally tiny understanding of debian/control
<Henry_Bean> beside that i have no idea about Makefiles and configuration
<Henry_Bean> i came from the Java world :S
<minghua> LaserJock: of course, X fonts are from X server (which means where your keyboard, mouse, and monitor is at)
<minghua> LaserJock: so when you ssh in, you are using the fonts on your desktop
<LaserJock> well, I'm running Xfig on the same machines
<LaserJock> *machine
<LaserJock> just in one instance locall, the other ssh'd in
<Lathiat> yet another avahi init script bug
<ajmitch> Lathiat: time to put a big fat warning in the initscript?
<ajmitch> though people will miss that
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon: are you in charge of ubotu?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon cluebat
<Lathiat> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> well i just wanted to suggest to whomever can change the bot to add !oxygen and !plasma
<Lathiat> i think you'll find you should be able to go /msg ubotu plasma is <whatever>
<Lathiat> at a guess
<minghua> !usage
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
<LaserJock> only ubotu editors are allowed to add new factoids
<Admiral_Chicago> La
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: that's what i thoughtt
<Admiral_Chicago> which is why i asked imbrandon if he was around
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: try #ubuntu-bots
<nixternal_> you can request new factoids however, there is a function to use that will message the bot people with the new factoid
<Admiral_Chicago> #ubuntu-bots
<Admiral_Chicago> err
<LaserJock> well, what are the factoids you want?
<Admiral_Chicago> crap i feel like a n00b now
<Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: i want to add the factoids about KDE 4, like plasma, oxygen etc
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: hmm, yeah. I'd what for imbrandon
<Admiral_Chicago> okay i'll do that
<LaserJock> technically I could do it, but I'm a bit rusty with my bot usage, need to get home, and don't know what to put really
<minghua> LaserJock: some one needs to edit UbotuUsage wiki page then, it says anybody can change the factoids as long as he/she is registered
<LaserJock> hmm
<TheMuso> For those who are interested, wiki page for build farm project, as decided at last MOTU meeting is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Machines
<LaserJock> TheMuso: cool
<TheMuso> Also sent a mail to the MOTU list.
<LaserJock> I also got a contact from _MMA_ about a company possibly being interested in a HW donation
<TheMuso> Cool.
<LaserJock> I'll have to send an email and see if there is any real intrest
<TheMuso> Anyway, have a look and add thoughts/suggestions as you wish.
<LaserJock> cool
<imbrandon_> evening
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon_.
<imbrandon_> heya TheMuso
<LaserJock> Admiral_Chicago: imbrandon_ is here :-)
<imbrandon_> ?
<nixternal_> those chicago people are annoying aren't they imbrandon_  ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon_:  can you add an entry to ubotu for !plasma !oxygen !solid?
<Admiral_Chicago> i tell you those chicagoans
<imbrandon_> nixternal_: heh
<imbrandon_> Admiral_Chicago: sure message me what you want the factoids to say
<nixternal_> KDE4 doesn't yet exist - how is that for a factoid?
<nixternal_> ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> PM or what?
<nixternal_> no he isn't the prime minister
<Admiral_Chicago> factoids != facts
<imbrandon_> nixternal_: sure it does, i'm running it on two diffrent systems , just isnt stable-ish yet ;)
<nixternal_> well, they better be facts, otherwise they are opinions
<imbrandon_> pm yea
<nixternal_> ya, i know..i have a system at home with it that just doesn't want to do anything
<LaserJock> "Look ma, KDE4!"
<imbrandon_> ;)
<imbrandon_> the funny thing is everyone expects something "ohhh ahhh" and kde4 looks exactly like kde3 ;)
<LaserJock> geeze, what's the fun in that
<imbrandon_> infact there are two kde4 apps that ship with kubuntu now ;)
<imbrandon_> and that screenshot of konqueror on my blog is kde4 ;)
<imbrandon_> heh
<LaserJock> I'm seeing a fair amount of buzz about Ruby in KDE4
<imbrandon_> plasma looks a bit diffrent but it dosent even compile yet afaik
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon link me to your blog?
<imbrandon_> yea there is alot of buz about python and ruby kde bindings lately
<imbrandon_> Admiral_Chicago: www.imbrandon.com
<imbrandon_> ;)
<zul_> imbrandon_: ewww...nickleback
<imbrandon_> the kde hwdb app and speedcrunch are both kde4 in kubuntu edgy
<nixternal_> not even 2 minutes there LaserJock  ;)
<LaserJock> crap, I was going to go home
<imbrandon_> zul_: heh i like nickleback ;)
<LaserJock> and then I realized that my wife has the care :/
<nixternal_> hahaha
<imbrandon_> s/e//
<Admiral_Chicago> been listening to shakira lately....
<nixternal_> you are stuck at work
<imbrandon_> ?
<zul_> imbrandon_: all of their songs sound the same though
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: yes, thanks
<LaserJock> nixternal_: yep
<nixternal_> wth, Admiral_Chicago and imbrandon_ both listen to shakira..that is scarey
<LaserJock> hmm
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal i don't actually
<TheMuso> eww shakira
<nixternal_> who hacked the server?  teacher is running around like a chicken
<TheMuso> SOunds like processed music to me
<Admiral_Chicago> my last.fm id is admiral_pro
<ajmitch> nixternal_: hm?
<Admiral_Chicago> check it out
<nixternal_> haha ajmitch  ;_
<nixternal_> ;)
<ajmitch> nixternal_: someone actually logged in, or are you just joking about it? :)
<nixternal_> somebody beat me to changing the password...LOL
<ajmitch> wonderful
<nixternal_> actually...whoever did it..thank you!
<nixternal_> everyone is logged in on a Ubuntu LiveCD now because I carry about 25 of them with me at all times...and tonight, they got lucky
<nixternal_> it is cool...there is no more Fedora Core 2 showing..it is all Ubuntu goodness
<nixternal_> the old lady up front is giggling at Edubuntu
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal_ i always have at learst one of U/K on each archetecture at all times
<LaserJock> nixternal_: tell her to play gcompris
<nixternal_> hmm..i can't email with my cell phone..only sms
<nixternal_> that is stupid
<nixternal_> this lady is learning shell scripting at i would say 70 maybe
<imbrandon_> Admiral_Chicago: if you want me to add those factoids please PM soonish or it will have to wait till tomarrow, /me is gonna sleep soon
<LaserJock> well, I accidently left all my beautiful CDs in Mountain View :/
<nixternal_> hehe
<nixternal_> i just got a shipment in for Ubuntu Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon_: i'll have to do it tomorrow, i didn't know you OKed a PM and I have homework to do still
<LaserJock> nixternal_: how long did it take to get them?
<nixternal_> a week
<nixternal_> but...there is reasoning to that
<imbrandon_> Admiral_Chicago: ok , if you want email them to me ( imbrandon@kubuntu.org )
<nixternal_> a reason behind that rather
<Admiral_Chicago> 4-8 weeks for most users
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon_: will do
<LaserJock> well, my LUG decided to do a install fest on the 19th
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: i got my shipment in about 1.5 weeks
<imbrandon_> of 300 cd's
<LaserJock> I have no idea why they aren't waiting until after Edgy is out
<LaserJock> but oh well
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: they do it once a month
<nixternal_> there isn't going to be an Edgy ShipIt for one
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: install fests?
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: btw i'm still on that ML i realized yesterday
<nixternal_> only the LoCo Team Leads will get 500 assorted Edgy disks..the rest will be for sale it seems
<LaserJock> nixternal_: LUGs can still get Edgy shipit
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: yea
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon_: i'm adding you on last.fm if that's cool with you
<imbrandon_> nixternal_: and LUG's
<imbrandon_> Admiral_Chicago: sure i dont care ( not even sure what that means tbh )
<nixternal_> so LUGs will get them too?  last email said just LoCos
<LaserJock> LUGs will have to pay for them, but they can get them
<nixternal_> i believe it was the one on the loco list from jane
<nixternal_> ahhh..ok, ya
<nixternal_> well, they are looking for distributors in the US as well...i have 3 maybe 4 here in Chicago alone that will be distributing hopefully
<LaserJock> anyway, I don't think many people will show so ...
<LaserJock> I thought I'd at least burn some Edgy RC CDs
<nixternal_> hehe
<imbrandon_> ;)
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: just bring an iso and burner , have them bring the cd's , thats what i used to do
<imbrandon_> then no waste on either side
<LaserJock> my Lug doesn't seem to have a lot of activity
<nixternal_> ya i did that last time because i was out of cds
<Admiral_Chicago> imbrandon_: what do you use to play music? amarok?
<imbrandon_> amarok
<imbrandon_> and itunes a little
<imbrandon_> mostly amarok ( even on osx )
<Admiral_Chicago> does it auto send your songs to last.fm?
<imbrandon_> yea
<nixternal_> yes
<LaserJock> how many people are in the Chicago LUG(s) ? It's got to be a ton
<nixternal_> well, there are 5 or so Chicago LUGs
<nixternal_> only 3 or 4 are really active...so i would go a few hundred every 2 weeks maybe
<imbrandon_> me/we just started the ubuntu-midwest loco team ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: how many people went to RLUG when you were here?
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: about 30 on busy meeting , 20 avg
<LaserJock> oh wow
<LaserJock> the 1 I went to was like 7-10
<nixternal_> right now we are working on a deal with FSF to have RMS as a speaker...and this dude just doesn't stay in a hotel...he requests someone to let him stay with them from what i understand
<imbrandon_> man
<nixternal_> so the chiglug list is a bunch of people going, RMS can stay with me
<Admiral_Chicago> RMS?
<LaserJock> nixternal_: oh geeze, good luck with that. He's got a hug list of really eccentric requirements
<nixternal_> oh lord kick him now
<imbrandon_> oh man i would resign from the lug is RMS came to talk
<nixternal_> ya LaserJock, we got to see the list
<nixternal_> he is a freakin' whack bag who is slowly screwing Linux out of big deals with the government here, because he has the UN and everyone else pissed at him
<zul_> heh we wanted rms to come to the ottawa lug but he wouldnt unless if changed the name of the group to include gnu/linux
<LaserJock> haha
<imbrandon_> lol
<zul_> wanker
<Admiral_Chicago> well what is the acronym mean?
<nixternal_> ya, well the ChiGLUG has it..so he has agreed
<LaserJock> Richard M Stallman
<nixternal_> Chicago GNU/Linux User's Group...but we have to get a place for him to stay, and meet the other requirements from what I understand
<LaserJock> make sure the tempurature is right
<Kyral> RMS is like a Hippie Obi-Wan Kenobi
<nixternal_> lol
<nixternal_> he is a retarded chong
<LaserJock> and like no animals or something (except cats) or something like that
<Kyral> Linus is like a Finnish Han Solo :P
<imbrandon_> why arent you the gnu/kde/gnome/linux/autoconf/dpkg users group ?
<zul_> just dont let him sing
<LaserJock> I think I'd have to leave a LUG that had GNU/Linux in it's name ;-)
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: +5
<Kyral> I like BLAG's name
<Kyral> BLAG Linux And GNU
<imbrandon_> i wonder if there could be a ubuntu diritive without gnu tools ( e.
<imbrandon_> g. bsd )
<zul_> LaserJock: http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/video-richard-stallman-jamming-with-gilberto-gil
<LaserJock> anyway ...
<nixternal_> I was at a conference years back when the McCormick in Chicago held them...and I thought it would be cool to get a picture with RMS...he wouldn't take the pic because it was a Sony Digital Camera...we did the "wow this guy is an idiot"...and he started speaking in tongues
* imbrandon_ cant wait for the dfsg ML to get ahold of gpl v3
<nixternal_> ;soon young jedi
<nixternal_> soon
<minghua> imbrandon: what do you expect to compile such a derivative with? :-)
<ajmitch> minghua: intel compiler ;)
<zul_> heh rms doesnt even use debian ;)
<ajmitch> debian is not pure enough
<imbrandon_> intels cpp compiler
<ajmitch> the kernel hasn't been stripped clean of binary firmware
<imbrandon_> i'd be suprised if RMS used linux
<minghua> intel compiler, while I admit a very good one, doesn't compile kernel last time I heard
<Kyral> RMS prolly uses the HURD
<LaserJock> zul_: thanks, I don't think I'll be able to listen to music again
<imbrandon_> lol
<zul_> imbrandon_: he says he does
<zul_> LaserJock: yeah i had nightmares
<LaserJock> does RMS even use a computer anymore?
* LaserJock ponders
<imbrandon_> hahah
<imbrandon_> a z80 he put togather himself
<ajmitch> Kyral: RMS would beat you for capitalising the Hurd like that
<LaserJock> well, I was more thinking that he just talks ... and talks ...
<Kyral> RMS would have to be unstoned to hit me first
<LaserJock> anyway, that's probably enough RMS bashing :-)
<LaserJock> he gave us some good things too
<imbrandon_> hey now alot of good code has been written stoned by many programers ;)
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: true but i hate his arogantness
<imbrandon_> is tht even a word
<LaserJock> yeah, all the KDE apps
* LaserJock runs
<LaserJock> sure
<imbrandon_> lol
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: lol
* imbrandon_ was thinking
<imbrandon_> hrm , i used to know an upstream that was ALWAYS stoned but i cant rember whom it was now
<Admiral_Chicago> shhh
<nixternal_> heh
<Admiral_Chicago> he might be listing right now
<imbrandon_> and it was a great project no one would have thought
<nixternal_> UTUTO
<imbrandon_> iirc it was some lisp project
<imbrandon_> ahh it was ratpoison
<imbrandon_> wm
<imbrandon_> ( even has notes about it in the README or docs or something iirc )
<Admiral_Chicago> he wrote emacs
<nixternal_> 21:22 < imbrandon_> i'd be suprised if RMS used linux
<Admiral_Chicago> eww
<nixternal_> ya, he uses that UTUTO
<nixternal_> i seen that in the interview he did at LinuxWorld
<LaserJock> doesn't FSF have it's own Linux distribution?
<ajmitch> GNU/Linux, thank you very much
<nixternal_> who knows..those are some odd people there...there is a FSF "board member" or whatever at this college, and nobody talks to them
* Lathiat grins
<nixternal_> he shows up at the CoDLUG meetings, but we ignore him ;)
<imbrandon_> thats mean
<nixternal_> LOL
<Admiral_Chicago> give him a ubuntu cd
<nixternal_> he sits in the corner and does meditation and humms like an old windows 3.1 box
<minghua> now that's really mean
<imbrandon_> serouisly, thats what make geeks do crazy stuff cuz they have no ffriends and give all geeks a bad anbme
<imbrandon_> name*
<nixternal_> how was that mean?
<minghua> well, I wouldn't call anybody like a computer box
<nixternal_> OK, I guess I shouldn't tell you about how we make him get on the table and dance, while we throw rocks at him then
* crimsun grumbles at soyuz, which ate my mythplugins upload
<imbrandon_> crimsun: ouch
<LaserJock> crimsun: bummer
<imbrandon_> anyone else see on the news about the plane that hit a building NYC today ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal_> lol...ya
<TheMuso> We heard about it here too.
<imbrandon_> thats nuts
<nixternal_> jjesse told me about it..yankees lost a good pitcher
<zul_> people were freaking out apparently
<nixternal_> ya, i think i would have as well if i was there again for that mess
<TheMuso> The breakfast show guy this morning here was talking to an Aussie who worked nearby.
<TheMuso> on the radio.
<nixternal_> he smacked the middle of the building..people thought he was doing aerobatics
<imbrandon_> 10/11/06 flipped is umm 09/11/01 as Seveas pointed out
<crimsun> -ECONSPIRACY !
<nixternal_> ya, i thought that was crazy..they said that on msnbc earlier and i didn't pay attention until Seveas pointed it out
<minghua> well, 10/11/06 flipped is 90/11/01 to me :-)
<nixternal_> apparently his ERA was equivalent to the amount of current al-qaeda member in gitmo as well ;)
<imbrandon_> lol
<nixternal_> well, if you do the good ol' congressional single digit way...it would be the goofy 10/11/6
<nixternal_> but i don't think anyone does that anymore
<imbrandon_> ok time for some sleep, i've been up far too long today, gnight all
<nixternal_> g'nite
<chillywilly> sorry read scroll back, but everyone knows that RMS usese Ututo GNU/Linux ;P
<zakame> hi all
<chillywilly> uses*
<zakame> yeah
<ajmitch> Lathiat: more avahi bugs :)
<Lathiat> yeh this one was my fault ;)
<ajmitch> I can't believe that you'd add to the bug count like that :)
<zakame> wow so many LP mails today :p
<zakame> sivang's been working, that's for sure :P
<Lathiat> i love it when people reject their own bugs
<crimsun> He and fujitsu have been making me suffer. Thanks guys!
<Burgundavia> who is Luke Y
<Burgundavia> ?
<crimsun> TheMuso, Burgundavia.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: just saw his buildfarm page
<wickedpuppy>  Hi guys ... I would like to know why ubuntu includes binary drivers in the install cd ?
<crimsun> wickedpuppy: meaning why it includes restricted, proprietary-only binaries?
<wickedpuppy> yes sir
<crimsun> wickedpuppy: the goal is to make things run without a great deal of hassle
<Burgundavia> such as my poor Atheros card
<wickedpuppy> well i ask because I am running one of the local teams and that question brought up ...
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu will only include binary stuff if it is needed to get the machine up and running
<Burgundavia> such as a binary networking driver
<wickedpuppy> but other distros don't include them ? then how do they install ?
<Burgundavia> we don't instlal stuff that is nice to have, such as the ATI or Nvidia drivers
<Burgundavia> that depends entirely on the distro
<wickedpuppy> hmms ... thanks
<wickedpuppy> but don't know how to reply to the question though ...
<Burgundavia> what was the specific question?
<Burgundavia> wickedpuppy: shall we move to -marketing ?
<wickedpuppy> sorry if i am distubing ... sure i will post it in #ubuntu-marketing
<wickedpuppy> correct ?
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: you up?
<crimsun> wickedpuppy: see the trailing half of http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing
<crimsun> particularly sections on Documentation.. and The purpose of the 'restricted' component
<wickedpuppy> thanks crimsun
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: it is more than just access to one type of arch. It is also speed of upload/download and speed of machines
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: Well add it. :)
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: will do so
<TheMuso> That didn't occur to me at the time.
<imbrandon_> Burgundavia: lemme know when you let the lock off, i have a few things to add also
* imbrandon_ should be asleep heh
<ajmitch> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> imbrandon_: done in a sec
<Burgundavia> heyu ajmitch
<ajmitch> how goes it?
<imbrandon_> Burgundavia: sure, no hurry just wanted a ping ;)
<Burgundavia> imbrandon_: done
<imbrandon_> cool thanks
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: Nicely put.
<TheMuso> What made you think of Australia? :)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: NZ is far more starved for bandwidth ;)
<Burgundavia> poor ajmitch and Fujitsu talking about it
<Burgundavia> I meant the whole NZ/AU area
<ajmitch> or Africa
<ajmitch> I know that the telco situation in South Africa makes NZ look wonderful
<Burgundavia> yep
<ajmitch> crimsun: nice changelog for mythplugins
<zakame> aww bandwidth
<ajmitch> zakame: still on dialup?
<Burgundavia> how is ssh through dialup?
<zakame> ajmitch: hell no, dsl-at-work now :P
<ajmitch> painful
<minghua> crimsun: did you figure out what's wrong with vlc's translation patch eventually?
<TheMuso> It is not what I would call usable.
* ajmitch uses ssh on dialup when visiting parents
<Burgundavia> but less painful than actually trying to download stuff, I would imagine
<zakame> ajmitch: I know your pain though
<zakame> Burgundavia: yeah, like trying to get the edgydvd :P
<TheMuso> ajmitch: At least my mother is now convinced that dial-up sucks.
<crimsun> minghua: no, been squashed for resources lately
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: what about a slushfund for getting certain developers faster internet?
<zul_> or better machines :)
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: I dunno.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: sometimes you'd need to throw a lot more money at it
<Burgundavia> how much more?
<ajmitch> I'm not too badly off now
<TheMuso> I think for broadband, downstream is usually ok. The problem lies with upstream, at least thats what I think anyway.,
<zakame> ubntubuntank?
<zakame> :P
<ajmitch> but some places you just can't get decent DSL, for example
<zul_> ubuntu-sugar-daddy
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: yes, upstream was really crappy until about 2 years ago here
<Burgundavia> then it all went a little insane
<ajmitch> only in the last year or two have I been able to afford more than 128Kbps
<ajmitch> & now I'll have something around 5Mbps/768Kbps at a guess
<Burgundavia> anybody else here own a Linksys wrt54gx or just a g?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Lucky you.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: yeah, full line speed for me, 30GB cap, from the day edgy releases
<TheMuso> Nice.
<TheMuso> When we move we will look into ADSL2+ here.
<TheMuso> Until then, I can live with what we have.
<ajmitch> ADSL2+ has meant to have been rolled out in NZ about a year ago
<ajmitch> they're still promising it
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: how much do you pay for that?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: about $100NZD/month
<Burgundavia> owww
<Burgundavia> http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/ProductsServices/Internet/
<Burgundavia> that will make you cry then
<Burgundavia> I have the middle one
<TheMuso> ajmitch: 5mbps would be quite possible if Telstra got off their buts.
<ajmitch> most prices do
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I have 3.5/512 at the moment
<Burgundavia> ok, my touchpad is mostly fucked
<TheMuso> Nice.
<TheMuso> 1.5/256 here, which is not too bad.
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I live in a lovely country, miles from anywhere
<Burgundavia> I live less than 50 from Redmond?
<ajmitch> so many things are more expensive (petrol, airfares, bandwidth) :)
* zakame should get dsl at home too
<Toadstool> wow, you guys should move to France, my parents have a 25Mbits/1Mbps DSL line for only 30 euros a month (something like $40)...
<Toadstool> and they live nearly in the middle of nowhere
* Fujitsu growls at Toadstool.
<Fujitsu> 30 Euros!? That's incredible.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: About $50
<Fujitsu> TheMuso, I know.
<TheMuso> That is incredible.
<LaserJock> I get 1.5Mbps/300+Kbps for $32/ month here
<LaserJock> I then the French are getting a better deal ;-)
<LaserJock> *think
<Toadstool> http://adsl.free.fr/offre/grille.pdf <-  the price/services grid in french
<LaserJock> where are the DVD .isos at?
<LaserJock> for Dapper
<Toadstool> they could have up to 28Mbit/s but they are a little far from the DSLAM
<imbrandon_> ok LaserJock and TheMuso my stuff added to the machines page, i'll add more later and clean it up but i'm sleepy, feel free to proof it and intergrate it into the rest of the doc properly, i'm headed to sleepy ;)
<TheMuso> Toadstool: 25mbps is still mega sweet.
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: Cya.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: cdimages.ubuntu.com :D
<Toadstool> TheMuso: yeah I know :)
<TheMuso> Toadstool: Whats their upstream?
<Toadstool> upstream?
<TheMuso> upstream bandwidth.
<TheMuso> As in, how fast can they upload?
<Toadstool> ah! a little less than 1Mbits
<TheMuso> Thats nice.
<Toadstool> yup
* imbrandon_ has 8mb/1mb ;)
<imbrandon_> for 24$ a mo
<LaserJock> joejaxx: hmm, should be on releases.ubuntu.com i'd think
* LaserJock moves to KC
* Fujitsu strangles imbrandon_.
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: common i have a couch ;)
<imbrandon_> you can finish your deg here at umkc ;)
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: Good ideas, but not everybody is going to have that, and the system is likely to have machines all over the place.
* ajmitch really would like canonical to sponsor some build machines
<LaserJock> ajmitch: me too
<TheMuso> Yeah that would be nice.
<imbrandon_> ajmitch: i plan on bringing it up in mountain view
<LaserJock> maybe I'll have a little chat with Mark at Mountain View ;-)
<LaserJock> haha
* ajmitch is still trying to find a kayak so that he can paddle to SF
<TheMuso> SF?
<LaserJock> San Fransisco
<TheMuso> Ah./
* Toadstool is still trying to convince his boss so that he can go to Moutain View
<imbrandon_> TheMuso: i know but thats the problem, the kinda need to be central e.g we will most likely be kinking in for someone to host these boxes ( if someone wants to send the hardware i will hehe ) and make a lp group to admin them like REVU
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: I think this is possible without anyone having to host them at one central location/send hardware to be hosted etc.
<Toadstool> that's so frustrating... the previous UDS was in Paris when I was in France but it was right in the middle of my exams and now I am in California but I have to work :/
<TheMuso> If it is planned and set up right, we can make it happen.
<LaserJock> poor Toadstool :/
<joejaxx> TheMuso: :\
<joejaxx> i mean
<TheMuso> Toadstool: Ah that would really suck.
<joejaxx> Toadstool: :\
<imbrandon_> TheMuso: sure it can be done but security would be a MAJOR probelm then, it would take 10x more planning and administration
<TheMuso> Yeah I know. But as far as I see it, what choice do we have?
<imbrandon_> and then you have to worry about consistancy
<joejaxx> i was wondering
<ajmitch> TheMuso: there's a reason why the debian machine admins require direct access to all the porter machines
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Right.
<joejaxx> how much space whould you all need for compile machines for motu?
<ajmitch> space isn't too bad - cpu, ram & bandwidth are the killers
<imbrandon_> joejaxx: it would take a dedicated machine that a group on lp would have to have root access to
<joejaxx> lp?
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: xen ftw ;)
<TheMuso> launchpad
<imbrandon_> ajmitch: ;)
<joejaxx> TheMuso: ah
<imbrandon_> ajmitch: xen domains are technicly called machines ;)
<imbrandon_> i think lol
<joejaxx> hmmm i will have to see
<LaserJock> well, can we seperate out build machines from test machines?
<LaserJock> build machines are better security wise and can be distributed without much problem
<nixternal> woohoo SNOWFLAKES!!!
<TheMuso> LaserJock: We could do hat, yes.
<TheMuso> *that
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: what would be the benifet >
<LaserJock> build machines could be anybody (almost)
<LaserJock> all they need is pbuilder
<LaserJock> they don't have to give us ssh
<TheMuso> More than that, we could also put together cross-compile chroots like what imbrandon_ has done with pcc.
<TheMuso> ppc
<TheMuso> So some grunty AMD64/i386 machines could also server as ppc builders.
<LaserJock> the con to having seperate build machines is bandwidth
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: well the whole thing about access is to build and test on the same box, otherwise i could upload to the normal buildds and watch it fail then fix it somewhere else
<LaserJock> what is the reliability of coross-compiling
<TheMuso> LaserJock: as I said earlier, the biggest problem with bandwidth is upstream.
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: well, I'd much rather see it fail before it gets to the buildds
<TheMuso> Big packages are no problem to download, but to upload...
<LaserJock> and not have to bump the version just case it FTBFS
<imbrandon_> right , thus building and testing on the same box
<minghua> I think cross-compiling is still rather fragile
<imbrandon_> think about the workflow otherwise
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that we can get more donations for build machines then test machines
<chillywilly> what sort of config files go in conffiles? Ones that the user typically does not have to modify?
<TheMuso> minghua: Yea I know its not proven, but what imbrandon_ has experimented with is a start.
<LaserJock> and perhaps thats an ok thing
<imbrandon_> cross-compile is an option later on as i've been expirmenting with but its not the answer /yet/ its not proven
<LaserJock> what would be nice is if we can have tiber work as a gateway
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: well imho a distibuted envionment wont be as robust as a controled "farm" but my eyes are closing, i'll work up a proper email to -motu why later
<LaserJock> so people upload to REVU, the source package gets sent to build machines
<minghua> TheMuso: actually I am not sure exactly what imbrandon is doing.  I know if you want to just use gcc-powpc to compile a arch:ppc package on i386, it's rather fragile.  but imbrandon gave me the impression that he is building a native-like cross-compiled chroot
<Burgundavia> TheMuso: rather than have a big team, why just start it informally?
<Burgundavia> have people offer up machines to those they trust, etc.
<TheMuso> Burgundavia: Thats what imbrandon_ has been doing.
<Burgundavia> basically what the wiki page would list would be people and their machines
<Burgundavia> speeds, arches, etc.
<imbrandon_> Burgundavia: i already have started it informaly, thus this is the "next" step ;)
<Burgundavia> I think we need to see what kind of need there is out there
<Burgundavia> and what kind of supply we can get simply by asking people
<imbrandon_> Burgundavia: i have a farm here i give MOTU access to and thats alot of what sparked this convo a few weeks ago
<LaserJock> well, I think we know the need, and there are people offering to donate at least CPU time
<Burgundavia> if we just start collecting those people onto a wiki page, we can start looking at bigger and better things later
* imbrandon_ beds
<LaserJock> well, from what I've seen. A fair amount of HW donators want to see a proccess in place
<TheMuso> That makes sense, but why not get it right the first time, so that if we do move onto a more centralized/automated system later, there won't be downtime in transitioning machines over to the new system.
<Burgundavia> the issue is, how much time are we going to try and spend setting it up?
<joejaxx> goodnight i
<joejaxx> imbrandon_:
<LaserJock> hopefully not much :-)
* ajmitch really really wishes that the f-spot bzr import hadn't suddenly stopped
<LaserJock> the arch thing is a decently big issue for me
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i looked at the debian list you told me about
<LaserJock> I have no amd64 or ppc to build or more importantly test on
<LaserJock> therefore I mostly ignore amd64 or ppc bugs or try to poke somebody
<LaserJock> but it's a bit hard to do that
<TheMuso> LaserJock: What is annoying, is getting a package uploaded knowing it built fine in your pbuilder, but it failing on an arch in te build servers.
<LaserJock> right
<ajmitch> TheMuso: we had great fun doing that with mono at UDU
<TheMuso> And not that I've had this happen, but if it were sparc, what do people to then? :)
<LaserJock> but right now I'm even more annoyed at getting yelled at for ignoring ppc and amd64 users
<ajmitch> I think it took us 5 upload & bugging lamont a couple of times to unbreak the chroots
<TheMuso> heh
<joejaxx> TheMuso: :P
<joejaxx> TheMuso: i have some old ultrasparcs
<TheMuso> *do
<ajmitch> we were trying to get mono on amd64 going properly :)
<minghua> LaserJock just needs to learn being insensitive :-)
<ajmitch> he needs to become a DD
* minghua gets yelled by users at all the time 
<LaserJock> yes, yes, I know
<LaserJock> I just care too much ;-)
<minghua> ajmitch: but port machines in Debian are frozen now? :-)
<LaserJock> I just feel bad
<minghua> LaserJock: you should just be happy that your boss's girlfriend is not a user of your package :-)
<joejaxx> ajmitch: most of the packages on that debian are already being maintained currently in ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, my boss used my Ubuntu box today
<joejaxx> debian list*
<minghua> (and I'm not kidding, I heard that from a fellow Debian maintainer)
<LaserJock> that would be interesting though
<joejaxx> ajmitch: the orphan package list that is
<minghua> to make things worse - he is the Debian maintainer, the Ubuntu package in dapper is a broken version, and he got bug reports for that
<minghua> unfortunately saying "no, it's not business" is not an option when talking to your boss's g/f
<minghua> s/business/my business/
<ajmitch> joejaxx: what do you mean, they're maintained in Ubuntu?
<joejaxx> ajmitch: take motor for exmaple
<joejaxx> example
<joejaxx> ajmitch: it is on the debian orphan list but is in edgy
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> just because it's orphaned doesn't mean it's removed
<LaserJock> it just becomes like Universe ;p
<minghua> LOL
* ajmitch *detests* cvs
<joejaxx> is there a list of orphaned ubuntu packages?
<TheMuso> joejaxx: In universe, there is no such thing.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> so packages just get blacklisted like webmin?
<TheMuso> What has blacklisting got to do with anything?
<minghua> webmin is simply remove, AFAIK
<minghua> s/remove/removed/
<joejaxx> TheMuso: i am trying to figure out how there are no orphan packages in universe
<TheMuso> As far as I understand it, universe maintainers are not specifically tied to one package.
<TheMuso> For example, we all do package merges in a dev release cycle, even though we may have never touched that package before, and may never again.
<TheMuso> Other MOTUs can come along and do stuff to that package that we have previously touched.
<LaserJock> joejaxx: there are no orphaned packages in Universe because by definition MOTU are maintainers of *all* of Universe/Multiverse
<joejaxx> when i say orphaned i mean not up to date
<LaserJock> oh, those are totally different
<joejaxx> like if a packages is still at version blah
<joejaxx> in breezy
<LaserJock> orphaned means it doesn't have a maintainer
<minghua> ( ... I would rather call Universe "all orphaned unless specified otherwise", but that's just me )
<joejaxx> and still the same version in edgy
<joejaxx> even though there have been more recent versions
<TheMuso> How about a package can be outdated.
<LaserJock> minghua: bah, "glass half empty"
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, I said it's just me ;-)
<joejaxx> TheMuso: i guess so i just thought them being outdated meant no one whether one person or more was maintaining the package
<LaserJock> joejaxx: http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/unimultiverse-all.html
<joejaxx> thus becoming an orphan package
<minghua> joejaxx: even in Debian, a package with maintainer can still be outdated with respect to upstream
<LaserJock> no
<minghua> joejaxx: and I still don't know by outdated you mean compared with Debian or upstream
<joejaxx> minghua: but does that not mean the package is not being maintained?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thank you :D
<LaserJock> 2 possibilites, 1) it is "outdated" for a reason. we don't always need the latest version 2) packages are updated as much as we can
<minghua> joejaxx: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-orphaning
<minghua> joejaxx: that's orphaning's definition for you
<LaserJock> so sometimes packages don't get updated because we didn't have time to do it
<TheMuso> More to the point, we don't always no about them.
<LaserJock> yes
<TheMuso> Which is what Lucus' list tries to help with.
<LaserJock> well, in MOTU Science we do ;-)
<joejaxx> minghua: If you can no longer maintain a package, you need to inform the others about that, and see that the package is marked as orphaned.
<minghua> joejaxx: and no, outdated with respect to upstream doesn't mean the package is not being maintained, the maintainer may have very good reason
<joejaxx> minghua: that is the reason i thought that
<joejaxx> minghua: minghua moh ok
<minghua> joejaxx: see my last comment
<joejaxx> minghua: yeah
<minghua> joejaxx: and there is often the case "I can't maintain the package for next six months for (whatever reason)"
<minghua> joejaxx: in that case, the package is usually not orphaned
<joejaxx> minghua: oh ok i see
<joejaxx> LaserJock: outdated in ubuntu :D
<joejaxx> LaserJock: this list is great thanks
<minghua> eww, we still has gnutls11 and xft1 in edgy?
<minghua> (that's just the top of the list)
<joejaxx> :P
<ajmitch> right, I can hopefully get this package built, tested & uploaded before tfheen freezes the archive
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: testing is for chumps
<Plug> RACE BEGINS
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: yes, but f-spot is on the CD, so it sort of needs testing :)
<ajmitch> I was just grabbing fixes from CVS that are fairly isolated
<ajmitch> aha, build failure
* ajmitch forgot the Makefile fix
<LaserJock> man, these daily 100+MB of updates are interesting
<LaserJock> It'd be nice if you didn't have to upload *all* of KDE each time
<LaserJock> s/upload/download/
<LaserJock> every day I dist-upgrade 2 edgy machines
<LaserJock> that's got to be a lot of bandwidth :-)
<minghua> LaserJock: you need an proxy
<minghua> a*
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: well going from kde 3.5.4 to 3.5.5 kinda takes it /all/ to be uploaded
<minghua> damn grammar
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: hmm, is that what it is?
<imbrandon_> yup
<LaserJock> I thought I just did the "download K*" just the other day
<LaserJock> minghua: I'd like to convince the CS department here to make an Ubuntu mirror
<imbrandon_> probably we've been patching the hell out of it compared to dapper
<imbrandon_> lol
<TheMuso> imbrandon_: Couldn't sleep?
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: sneek 40gb is hdd space somewhere and run a cron, i run one here for dapper,edgy,sarge,and sid ;.)
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, that would be good.  but you can always set up something like apt-proxy yourself
<imbrandon_> TheMuso: no, i got wrapped up closing some bugs in debian
<imbrandon_> ;(
<TheMuso> heh
<imbrandon_> apt-mirror is nice too ( shameless plug )
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: is it 40GB for just 1 arch
<imbrandon_> about 30 to 40 depending on the arch
<LaserJock> why is that a shameless plug?
<ajmitch> there, a bunch of f-spot fixes uploaded
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: i'm part of upstream for it
<imbrandon_> infact thats what i was fixing up just now
<LaserJock> oh really
<LaserJock> cool
<imbrandon_> for debian ( as it wont make edgy ) for 0.4.5
<Plug> I'm a shameless Plug
* Plug takes his pants off
* ajmitch covers his eyes
<LaserJock> yikes
<imbrandon_> but 0.4.4 is very useable infact me and many others use it , .5 is mostly speed increases
<imbrandon_> ouch
<Plug> that'll look good in front of the CC.  "I'd advocate Plug in a heartbeat, but this one time, he took his pants off."
<ajmitch> Plug: you must get on well with jdub
<imbrandon_> lol
<LaserJock> well, if I could do it in OS X it'd be great :/
<Plug> I'm unsure of that.  I got very drunk with mrs jdub (and also the DPL) one night at LCA
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: it should work in osx if you have wget and perl ( it works on windows ;( )
<Plug> apparently I'd convinced AJ he was a leprechaun
<Plug> but I dont believe that for a second
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: i'll look at porting it , should be simple
<Lathiat> haha thats class
<ajmitch> approx the right height for it
<Lathiat> hopefully find out if my papers were accepted this year soon
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: wget is installed by default in osx isnt it ?
<Plug> hey Lathiat
<ajmitch> Lathiat: avahi again?
<Plug> I hadn't planned on going this year, but I might do so for some personal reasons
<Lathiat> yeh and ipv6-support in apps
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: not sure (I'm thinkin not) but I have it via fink for sure
<Plug> wanna go work overseas next year sometime
<ajmitch> Plug: fun, I might see you there
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: do you have a tarbal of it?
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: then it shouldent be hard to port, i'll look at it in the morning
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: apt-get source it heh
<imbrandon_> its in the repos
<LaserJock> hmm, that's true
<imbrandon_> it only consists of 2 files other than packageing
<LaserJock> I've never though of adding Debian/Ubuntu to my sources.list
<ajmitch> Plug: where do you plan to go for work?
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: apt-mirror ( perl script ) and mirror.list ( default config )
<imbrandon_> are the only "program files"
<imbrandon_> and only deps are perl and wget
<Plug> ajmitch: I like Canadia.
<Plug> (Any Canadans here?  Burgundavia?)
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: is there a way to throttle it?
<ajmitch> most have gone off to sleep for some reason
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: hrm , not really
<LaserJock> hmm
<imbrandon_> i dont know if there is a way to throttle wget
<LaserJock> I think you can
<imbrandon_> i can look into it though
<imbrandon_> i'm working on 0.4.5 right now anyhow, if there is a way i'll add it
<LaserJock> well, I just wondered if the uni would raise an eyebrow if I downloaded  40GB at full speed ;-)
<imbrandon_> figured it would be something good to work on while we're in RC freeze
<Plug> ajmitch: funny habit really
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: true, might be a nice feature
<imbrandon_> tbh i had never thought of it before
<LaserJock> well, I have a rather nice connection at the uni
<imbrandon_> hehe
<LaserJock> but single handedly running an Ubuntu mirror might be a little much
<ajmitch> imbrandon_: work on universe during RC freeze please :)
<imbrandon_> haha its simple, you run it via cron and forget about it ;)
<imbrandon_> ajmitch: definately
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: well, I wasn't talking about work, but bandwidth
<imbrandon_> ahh true, mine is technicly open to the public but if you dont make it known then none will use it ;)
<imbrandon_> ( and really only good if your on my lan as far as speed )
<imbrandon_> but you /can/ get to it via the net
<LaserJock> well, I have good upload too so I'd imagine people would like it ;-)
<LaserJock> but actually making it into a department Ubuntu mirror would be cool
<minghua> LaserJock: just FYI, apt-proxy is not a mirror
<LaserJock> yeah, I know
<minghua> good then
<minghua> although I think apt-proxy is much harder to port to OS X
<imbrandon_> yea thats ones nice thing about apt-mirror you can run it virtualy anywhere
<LaserJock> well, a full mirror would be more interesting to me really
<imbrandon_> and you can add other arches trivialy without adding them all
<imbrandon_> like i mirror i386+source+ppc here myself
<imbrandon_> but no amd64 etc etc etc
<LaserJock> well, I'd only need i386
<LaserJock> and source
<imbrandon_> yea
<LaserJock> I don't think we have any amd64 or ppc Ubuntu machines in the department
<imbrandon_> thats what it defaults to in the config ( with commented examples for other arches )
<nixternal> http://mik.unpackable.org/humping_iceweasel.gif
<nixternal> gahahahahahaha
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IceWeaselIcon
<LaserJock> hmm :/ I'm just not getting CVS
<imbrandon_> LaserJock: here is the two raw files for it http://federation.imbrandon.com/{apt-mirror,mirror.list} if you wanna grab it and try ti before i fire up osx tomarrow
<Lathiat> nixternal: i can't help but feel the iceweasal icon is a little 'too close' to the firefox icon
<nixternal> i think so as well, but the humping iceweasel takes the cake
<Lathiat> YEH IT DOES
<Lathiat> I VOTE FOR THAT ONE
<VoX> if people need an amd64 machine for testing packages, i have one available
<imbrandon_> i dont see the point of adding icewezle to ubuntu, i mean if we are gonna put ff in multiverse just ship emphany/konqueror why add yet another brower
<Lathiat> Faceless' icon should be the throbber for Iceweasel,
<Lathiat> HEH
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: we don't know what we're going to do yet
<seaLne> is the change likely to happen for edgy?
<Lathiat> has there even been an official decision yet?
<seaLne> no that i've seen on the list
<ajmitch> no, and every keeps asking that question every day
<LaserJock> mdz is working on it
<seaLne> :)
<LaserJock> but as he pointed at on -devel, the turnaround in his latest discussion was 10 days
<LaserJock> hmm, the other bad thing about these big updates is apt seems to really slow down my machine
<LaserJock> it really feels like the reniced apt-get or something
<imbrandon_> ugh i hate perl sometimes
* imbrandon_ thinks about apt-mirror.ng in python
<LaserJock> wahoo
<imbrandon_> ?
<dholbach> good morning
<BHSPitMonkey> good night
<wickedpuppy> good evening here
<dholbach> BHSPitMonkey: sleep tight
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: planner patch merged in Debian. thanks!
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: cool - already saw it
<Q-FUNK> guys, am I the only one who misses favicons in FF since yesterday's update?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK, all favicons missing? I've got LP's...
<BHSPitMonkey> uh oh
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm getting yesterday's update right now...
<BHSPitMonkey> oh well
<Lathiat> hrm evolution leaks like a sive
<Lathiat> few days its up to 27% of 512M
<BHSPitMonkey> damn
<Lathiat> reopen it sback to 6.6%
<BHSPitMonkey> and it ISN'T made by mozilla??
<BHSPitMonkey> zing!
* Lathiat laughs
<BHSPitMonkey> dang, I've got an hour left on these assorted updates
<BHSPitMonkey> better go to sleep
<BHSPitMonkey> does anyone here know "Tom Cato Amundsen" or "Scott James Remnant"
<crimsun> the latter is 'keybuk'
<BHSPitMonkey> right
<BHSPitMonkey> launchpad leads me to believe so as well
<BHSPitMonkey> is he on here at times?
<crimsun> in here, very rarely. Nearly always in -devel, -kernel, -boot, ...
<BHSPitMonkey> well, I just meant freenode
<BHSPitMonkey> but thanks
<BHSPitMonkey> I'll keep an eye out
<Fujitsu> BHSPitMonkey, in that case, he's /always/ here. During his working hours, at least.
<BHSPitMonkey> this apparently isn't such a time
<BHSPitMonkey> but I'll look during daylight tomorrow
<TheMuso> There is a -boot channel for Ubuntu?
<Plug> It's for Canadians. :)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee!
<siretart> dholbach: ajmitch: I have a question about FAI 3.0 for edgy. The thing is that I'm working with Thomas Lange (FAI upstream) together to get it working in edgy
<siretart> dholbach: ajmitch: its not ready yet, but the current fai packages won't work with edgy as well
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, I generally trust your judgement on getting things in & tested :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu!
<siretart> dholbach: therefore I'd suggest, that I continue working with him until we have a working  set of 'faikernels' and 'fai' packages, that I can use in my vmware test setup, and get that one in edgy
<dholbach> siretart: sounds cool
<siretart> dholbach: ajmitch: therefore I'm asking you for your opinions if I can continue my work, and get a last minute approval for that, or if we want to live with a broken fai for edgy
<dholbach> siretart: I'll cheerlead for you
<Plug> night all
<ajmitch> siretart: I'm happy with that
<BHSPitMonkey> I wonder how I have 1363 karma on launchpad
<BHSPitMonkey> does it just appreciate over time?
<crimsun> if you do nothing, the opposite.
<BHSPitMonkey> all I've done on there is comment on some things
<BHSPitMonkey> oh well
<minghua> bug comments get you karma points
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Please work on this list! http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a | Edgy frozen: Uploads need to be approved by motu-uvf
<ajmitch> accurate enough, I hope
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Sounds fine to me.
<ajmitch> not just new upstream version - all uploads have to be manually processed now
<ajmitch> just a warning if you're surprised that things don't come through quickly
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: *everything?*
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: whatever for?
<Hobbsee> what about unmet deps fixes?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: because they can't selectively freeze just main
<Hobbsee> bah.  fix it so that they can
<Hobbsee> fair enough, i guess
<minghua> ajmitch: what about s/Uploads/Any uploads/ in channel topic?
<ajmitch> 20:58 < infinity> ajmitch: It doesn't need strict checking, per se, just yay or nay approval so I'm not blindly letting everything through.
<ajmitch> minghua: I wasn't sure if I could fit it all in :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Please work on this list! http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a | Edgy frozen: ALL Uploads need to be approved by motu-u
<ajmitch> yeah, it cut off
<minghua> ...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ajmitch] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule | Have you Reviewed a package on REVU yet today?  | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF | Please work on this list! http://tinyurl.com/n8g6a | Edgy frozen: ALL Uploads need approval from motu-uvf
<ajmitch> better :)
<minghua> ajmitch: thanks
<minghua> though that looks like a hint to make the topic briefer...
<Hobbsee> the only problem is that no one reads the topic anyway
<Hobbsee> well, very few people
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> it's just to let some people know, word will spread
<geser> how are uploads now supposed to work? simply assign all debdiffs and sync requests to motu-uvf for approval?
<Hobbsee> geser: not assign.  subscribe.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: does that mean filing a bug now for each upload, etc?  how long will this last?
<StevenK> Until release.
<StevenK> The entire archive is frozen.
<Hobbsee> gah.
<Hobbsee> but...that's like....14 days.
<StevenK> Deal. :-P
<Hobbsee> hah.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: no, you don't need to spam malone that much
<ajmitch> it's more work for us, not for you
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: right, so what do we have to do?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ahh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: so just upload, then wait?
<ajmitch> yeah
* Hobbsee nods
<StevenK> Leet.
<StevenK> Now Kamion, Keybuk, tfheen and motu-uvf can be overworked.
<ajmitch> I'm not sure of all the details yet about getting the list of packages
<ajmitch> StevenK: you forget infinity
<StevenK> Oh yes, right.
<ajmitch> dholbach will probably find out later once I'm off sleeping :)
<StevenK> Oh damn.
<Hobbsee> hah.
<ajmitch> & correct anything I misled you with
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: now that you've just used his nick, he'll find out what we've said
<ajmitch> yep
<StevenK> This machine didn't notice I put a blank DVD in.
* ajmitch is hungry
<ajmitch> hopefully dinner is cooked
* ajmitch checks
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it's caught fire.
<dholbach> where and how can I help who?
<ajmitch> dholbach: sorry, just explaining the freeze
<StevenK> Hum.
<StevenK> This machine is in serious need of a reboot.
<ajmitch> I think that if we find the freeze unworkable, it can be changed
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sorry I don't have your culinary skills - it didnt catch fire :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hah.
* Hobbsee hasnt made anything catch fire at all recently.
<ajmitch> where recently means this week? :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: you can fix everything in the universe.  kthnksbye!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: try the entire month :P
<dholbach> ...
<ajmitch> don't stress him
<siretart> SIGLUNCH
<sivang> hi all
<ajmitch> hello sivang
* sivang apologizes for the people that seemed to have experienced pain since yesterday O:-o
<sivang> hey ajmitch
<sivang> how's it going?
<niru> sivang:hello
<niru> do you know how to set up sbuild
<azeem> most people use pbuilder
<niru> pbuilder?
<niru> what it is for
<azeem> same as sbuild
<niru> will sbuild update the repository
* sivang goes to attend to his list of assigned unmetdeps
<sivang> kristog: pong , btw
<azeem> niru: which repository?
<azeem> niru: there is a helper script to update the chroot
<azeem> not sure whether those helpers works with Ubuntu, though
<niru> Actually what is my requirment is:
<niru> We have a mirror server of debian
<niru> I want a tool that will update the repository as well as compile the packages
<azeem> update how?
<niru> In short how to build a binary debian repository from a source debian repository after minor modification
<azeem> sbuild and pbuilder just build source packages you point them at
<ajmitch> you could use the dak suite of tools for that, using sbuild
<ajmitch> as an example
<azeem> you will need to develop some surrounding glue to your solution
<ajmitch> depends on how much pain you want
<azeem> well, buildd/wanna-build help automating sbuild
<azeem> but they are not trivial to setup
<azeem> the backend repository can be dak or something simpler I guess
<azeem> or maybe one can do something similar with launchpad? (as a canonical client, maybe)
<niru> azeem:did you get my requirment
<azeem> niru: sort of
<sivang> niru: sorry, I've never played with sbuild before, I only use plain chroots
<azeem> it doesn't sound like it is MOTU related, so I am not particularly interested in discussing it while being at work, sorry
<sivang> does anybody know when slomo is supposed to be back ?
<niru> azeem:launchpad?
<azeem> niru: www.launchpad.net
* azeem raises an eyebrow
<niru> I heard about it but how to work arround that
<ajmitch> sivang: sometime soon
<sivang> ajmitch: sometime soon?
<sivang> ajmitch: ah
<sivang> :-)
<ajmitch> sivang: he was unsure about when he might get back
<sivang> sorry
<sivang> ajmitch: yes, is he still vacationing ?
<ajmitch> it was meant to be wednesday->wednesday, possibly longre
<ajmitch> s/re/er/
<ajmitch> afaik he is
<sivang> ajmitch: how do you talk to him besides IRC? email?
<ajmitch> mostly irc
<ajmitch> sometimes email, not often
<niru> azeem: I asked in launchpad site about the soyuz tool,
<sivang> ajmitch: okay, thank you lots.
<niru> azeem: they gave the info like, it is used only to maintain the archive
<Tonio_> hi
<niru> azeem: then in which way the tool will help in recompiling the pacakges and rename them from debian to ubuntu
<Tonio_> any motu to revu wengophone please ?
<Tonio_> current version doesn't build, and mdz was okay for an upgrade...
<Tonio_> I just would like someone to revu it once, since the packaging is completly different from the previous one...
<sivang> ajmitch: edgy frozen for RC as u-devel topic suggests doesn't mean we cannot fix unmetdeps in universe still, right?
<azeem> niru: I said "maybe"
<Tonio_> hi sivang
<Hobbsee> sivang: correct, it will just take a while to process
<ajmitch> sivang: no, upload away, they just will be delayed before being accepted
<niru> azeem: who is the exact person who is dealing with this work
<azeem> I don't know
<azeem> niru: are you planning to do a Debian or Ubuntu derived distribution?
<azeem> or just recompile some packages for fun?
<azeem> is this for a business?
<sivang> ajmitch, Hobbsee : cool mates, thanks.
<niru> Ubuntu derived distribution
<ajmitch> siretart: when you get back, what do you think of the large number of changes for bug 65625 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65625 in noteedit "UVF: [Sync Request]  noteedit (2.8.1-2) from Debian unstable (main)" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65625
<minghua_> niru: huh?  you said yesterday that you only want to recompile Debian packages?
<azeem> niru: Launchpad's mission statement is to facilitate that
<dholbach> pirast: what happened to the gaim-thinklight uvf?
<dholbach> pirast: why did you reject it?
<pirast> bug 65338
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65338 in gaim-thinklight "[UNMETDEPS]  gaim-thinklight has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65338
<pirast> ;-)
<dholbach> so bug 65562 is a dup of that
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65562 in gaim-thinklight "[Sync]  Please sync gaim-thinklight" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65562
<pirast> ah sorry
<pirast> im a little bit confused
<dholbach> don't worry
<pirast> we were able to stay with the 0.4 version.. there was just a plain reupload needed
<dholbach> ok cool
<niru> azeem:how is ubuntu maintaining its repository
<niru> How it updates the packages from the upstream
<niru> how then it recompiles them and stores in its repository
<niru> Is all this process manual
<niru> or automated
<pirast> dholbach, yeah and parallelly I built it in my pbuilder.. I then tried to install it and found out that it does not work. My first conclusion was that gaim-thinklight does not support gaim2.. But I then found out that my pbuilder was running dapper and that it works when I rebuild 0.4
<dholbach> ahhh ok
<dholbach> I see
<dholbach> easy mistake to make
<dholbach> hey cassidy
<cassidy> hi !
<niru> cassidy:hi
<niru> how to use soyuz?
<siretart> ajmitch: done
<ajmitch> siretart: what was your opinion of it?
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, both you & daniel approved it, so it can be confirmed
<siretart> ajmitch: btw, I really think we should target bug #62751 for edgy
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62751 in upstart "Upstart doesn't activate luks volumes in cryptsetup" [Undecided,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62751
<ajmitch> hm, yes
<siretart> ajmitch: unfortunately, I don't know how to fix it. :(
<ajmitch> I should look into that - I have crypto swap that doesn't get enabled
<ajmitch> yet that should be completely non-interactive
<siretart> even interactive cryptsetup boots should work. it used to work in dapper, and I think its a fairly common setup for laptops
<ajmitch> I agree
<ajmitch> siretart: probably /sbin/cryptsetup luksOpen in the initscript
<ajmitch> trying to get that to avoid using /dev/tty could be a mission
<siretart> ajmitch: well, it somehow needs to ask the passphrase from the keyboard, no?
<ajmitch> yes
<elmargol> Hi if i start gtk pod i get "Segmentation fault (core dumped)", mabe someone of you can help me=?
<ajmitch> probably have to check with keybuk how that will work with upstart
<thom> ajmitch: my cryptoswap works ok, but the interactive one definitely doesn't
<siretart> ajmitch: IIRC, he started to look at it, but didn't finish it
<ajmitch> thom: that doesn't surprise me - my laptop does some other weird things anyway
<Riddell> dholbach: can I upload xdg-utils 1.0?  http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/xdg-utils.diff
<ajmitch> I generally don't notice the lack of swap
<dholbach> Riddell: um - I already worked on it - did you fix the clash in the email-generic patch?
<dholbach> Riddell: because Kamion rejected my upload about it
<Riddell> I did yes
<Riddell> but if you're working on it, go ahead
<dholbach> I think I fixed it in the same (wrong) way
<dholbach> let me get the reference
<dholbach> <Kamion> dholbach: your xdg-utils patch updates are wrong - they produce duplicate code in xdg-email at least
<dholbach> <Kamion> dholbach: could you upload -0ubuntu2 correcting that?
<dholbach> <Kamion> Keybuk: I was up hideously late last night and need a bit of rest now. Can you take over the unapproved queue? The xdg-utils upload in there has some wrong bits in the xdg-email patch - I've asked dholbach to fix that
<dholbach> <Kamion> deliberately leaving it in the queue for comparison purposes
<dholbach> Riddell: ^ if you want to do that, I'm happy :)
<dholbach> but I can do it as well (once I got some other stuff out of the way)
<Riddell> I don't see where it duplicates code
<sivang> hmm, I'm was going to rebuild zope-cmfmember for it to dependen on >= zope2.9 , as it seems we don't have lower version. I am trying a rebuild on my edgy, and it seems zope-debhelper still doesn't att zope2.9 on the dependencies field , jus 2.7, 2.8, any ideas what's casuing it or what should I do ?
<Riddell> although I've no idea what the "local client" line does at the start of open_kde()
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> sivang: it states that it will work with zope 2.7 & 2.8
<sivang> ajmitch: you mean, the upstream documentation for this?
<ajmitch> no, the debian/dzproduct
* sivang looks
<sivang> right
<sivang> so that's where it takes the list of zope's it will depend on for ${zope:Depends} I guesS?
<ajmitch> correct
<sivang> kool
<sivang> I'll fix this right away
* sivang hugs ajmitch 
<ajmitch> fix? you'll test it with 2.9?
<sivang> I can, ues
<sivang> yes
<sivang> ajmitch: that is, add 2.9, rebuild, test with zope2.9 , is that okay?
<sivang> (patch the dzproduct file)
<ajmitch> I'd expect so, if it shows up any issues that might arise
<ajmitch> & make sure you file a bug in debian :)
<ajmitch> we like to keep zope especially in sync
<ajmitch> since it's a joint team
<sivang> ajmitch: I realize that, yes.
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<sivang> just one thing - how do I epxlain the added version, "there is now zope2.9 in ubuntu and because we'd like to be in sync we'd like you guys to fix it in debian as well?)
<sivang> (on the debian bug report, ofcourse)
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> debian has the same packages
<ajmitch> zope2.8 is removed from sid as well
<sivang> right, thanks
<ajmitch> now zope 2.10 is out :)
<sivang> oh woo
<sivang> I'm curious about the changelog, should check it sometime
<ajmitch> probably lots more Five stuff
<sivang> so sort'of 'backporting' from 3 to 2, nice
<ajmitch> "ZPT implementation based on Zope 3"
<ajmitch> http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope/2.10.0/Zope-2_10_0_released
<ajmitch> so yeah, lots of backport goodness
<ajmitch> StevenK: welcome back!
* sivang checks
* StevenK waves
* ajmitch should dig into more of the zope 3 new stuff
<ajmitch> though apparantly plone won't run on zope 2.10, which is a real pain
<sivang> ajmitch: is 2.10 considered more stable, then 3? (trying to realize the rational behind not using greatest and the latest)
<ajmitch> well they're somewhat different still
<ajmitch> so I don't know if you can say one is more stable than the other
<ajmitch> stuff written for 2.x needs some serious work to go on 3.x
<ajmitch> don't you do stuff with zope 3?
<sivang> ajmitch: well, Zope 3 has much more in the way of component re-use and pluginability, I've read about 2.x.x that it lacked most of the stuff 3 has on that regard. (never used it, just read about it in Phillips' book)
<sivang> ajmitch: also, it seemed to not have the extreme de-coupleness as 3 has, where content, view and db obejcts are highly seperated.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> but zope 2.x has a *lot* more products developed for it
<ajmitch> which is why I still use it (mainly for plone)
<ajmitch> phillips' book is "web component development with zope 3" ?
<sivang> ajmitch: indeed, very good one, although could use some touch finihses on the language ;-)
<ajmitch> yes, I've got a copy of it here
<ajmitch> hi ogra
<sivang> but I really like this book, it's has much of the python philosophy menifested in zope philosophy and takes a very aggressiv hand-on appraoch
<sivang> hey ogra
* ajmitch really should go & sleep
<sivang> yay, dependnecy is fixed now
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> I'd say it should work fine with 2.9
<sivang> ajmitch: indeed, I keep seeing you here almost in my timezone :-p
<StevenK> Hah
<sivang> ajmitch: me too, I haven't done any obtrusive changes
<ajmitch> usually it's the old (2.6 or older) that break
<StevenK> ajmitch has sometimes been seen conforming to AEST.
<ajmitch> StevenK: that's not hard, being only 3 hours out
<sivang> ajmitch: cool, I guess I shall upload now ?
<ajmitch> sivang: sure, if you're happy that it works
<sivang> ajmitch: okay, thanks.
<ajmitch> StevenK: when do you switch to AEDT?
<StevenK> End of October, I think
<StevenK> I have other people tell me when to change the clocks. :-P
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> I found out on irc a few hours before we changed
<StevenK> Hah.
<StevenK> Last time we changed I was up when it changed.
<ajmitch> I just about was
<StevenK> "I'll go to bed when it hits 2am"
<StevenK> "1:59:59 -> 1:00:00" ... Drat!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: *g*
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it makes a good excuse for being home late.
<StevenK> Heh
<Fujitsu> Last Sunday of October is the changeover.
<ajmitch> not that you ever need an excuse for that
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, no, of course not.
* Hobbsee is a good girl, always home on time.  and perfect.  :P
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: isnt that right?  :P
<StevenK> Heh
* ajmitch coughs
* Hobbsee counts the seconds till someone calls bullshit.
<ajmitch> yes, of course
<Hobbsee> :P
<StevenK> I'll agree with the first one, the last two are dubious.
<ajmitch> I know better than to comment
* StevenK likes to live dangerously sometimes.
<ajmitch> brave of you
<ajmitch> and you even live closer
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee brandishes her long pointy stick of doom
<StevenK> Aww, Hobbsee's a cute little kitten.
* StevenK pinches her cheek.
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> guys, I remind you this is supposed to be for-all-family channel :-p
* Hobbsee stomps on StevenK's fingers
<ajmitch> isn't she just so cute when she's angry? :)
<sivang> ouch!
<Hobbsee> heh
* StevenK calls the fire brigade because he just saw a DUCK
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: very cute.  *attacks you with her axe*
* StevenK high fives ajmitch with his flattened hand.
<StevenK> Hum.
* ajmitch returns it with his bloody stump of a hand
* StevenK grins.
* StevenK starts #attacked-by-hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> ajmitch: Do I just ask you to approve an upload?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you just upload.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: unless it's a UVF
<StevenK> Ah.
<ajmitch> afaik the procedure hasn't really been sorted, since we're meant to hand on the ok to an archive admin
<StevenK> It's an unmetdeps upload.
<ajmitch> but just upload, we'll get asked when they go through the unapproved queue
<StevenK> Should I mention unmetdeps in the changelog?
<StevenK> Screw it.
<StevenK> http://pastebin.ca/199239
<StevenK> ajmitch: Does that look okay?
* StevenK hasn't done a rebuild-only upload before.
<ajmitch> fine by me
* ajmitch has a bunch to do
<zul> hey
* StevenK tries to create an Edgy chroot on his sparc64, take #248372.
<ajmitch> night all
<StevenK> Night ajmitch
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch
<Fujitsu> Goodnight, ajmitch.
* StevenK watches libc6-sparc{64{,b,v},v9{b,v}} download.
<azeem> /W/ 2
<azeem> sorry
* StevenK watches libc6-sparc{64{,b,v},v9{b,v}} download again.
<lophyte> morning all
<geser> morning
<lophyte> hi geser
<lophyte> I just posted a debdiff for rssreader.app
<geser> lophyte: adding a sync request to the bug would be better
<geser> the archive admins pull it then from debian
<kristog> sivang: yes, do you think to do also libgalago-gtk
<kristog> sivang: i wanted to know if you think to upload also  galago-python
<sivang> kristog: also? I haven
<sivang> kristog: touched any of those, but happy to do them if needed.
<sivang> kristog: ;)
<sivang> are they in universe ?
<kristog> sivang: yes!
<sivang> kristog: cool, do you need them urgent ? are they unmetdeps or upstream + debian / ubuntu merge?
<kristog> sivang: libgalago-gtk https://launchpad.net/bugs/65354
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65354 in libgalago-gtk "[UNMETDEPS]  libgalago-gtk has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix released] 
<kristog> sivang: i'm a motu too :) i was wondering (as you assigned it to you) if you think to do galago-gtk-python
<sivang> kristog: I wanted to do those I assigned to myself, if you want to take any out of me that's okay :)
* sivang wanted to push some help on the galago front
<kristog> sivang: https://launchpad.net/people/galago :))))
<sivang> kristog: ah okay, so only folks in the team are allowed to work on it? fine with me :-D
<kristog> nono :)
<sivang> hehe, kidding
<kristog> join the group :)
<sivang> okay, let me requst
<kristog> cool :)
<sivang> done
<kristog> dholbach: ^
<sivang> dholbach: :-D
<Ramunas> Hello
<Ramunas> it seems that the xchat-common has a bug
<Ramunas> where and how should I submit it?
<lophyte> preferably on launchpad :)
<geser> lophyte: no need to open a seperate bug for each action
<Ramunas> ok, I'll do that
<lophyte> oh
<lophyte> my basd
<lophyte> bad, rather
<geser> you could have simply add the needed info to the uvfe bug and change the title
<lophyte> yeah, sorry
<geser> np, you are still learning
<geser> sync request needs an ACK from a MOTU (unless you are a MOTU)
<lophyte> should I close the dupe then?
<geser> yes
<lophyte> so I should subscribe MOTU to that bug for a sync request?
<geser> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000181.html
<geser> the second topic shows the current policy for sync requests
<geser> add the needed info to bug 65497
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65497 in rssreader.app "[Sync Request]  rssreader.app (0.6.2.dfsg-2) from debian unstable (main)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65497
<lophyte> alright
<geser> simply state that the package has no ubuntu changes and add the new changelog entries
<geser> lophyte: looks ok now
<lophyte> geser: thanks :)
<Q-FUNK> isn't the locale for spain es_ES?
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: From memory, yes
<geser> lophyte: usually you need an ACK from a MOTU but fortunately a granted uvfe is also sufficient (at least was for me)
<Q-FUNK> or was it sp_ES?
<geser> lophyte: therefore I've subscribed ubuntu-archive to the bug
<dholbach> sivang, kristog: didn't I upload that yesterday?
<sivang> libgalago-gtk (0.5.0-0ubuntu3) edgy; urgency=low
<sivang>   * Rebuild against newest libgalago.
<sivang>  -- Daniel Holbach <daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com>  Mon,  9 Oct 2006 11:53:13 +0200
<sivang> kristog: ^^
<sivang> dholbach: what's the differnece between libgalago-gtk{0,1} ?
<sivang> dholbach: I wonder why the script fond it as unmetdeps then :-/
<kristog> nothing, the new libgalago-gtk is only a rebuild.
<dholbach> libgalago-gtk0 was before the soname change
<dholbach> so "not important", does not exist in edgy anymore
<dholbach> galago-gtk-python needs a giveback
<dholbach> that's the only thing I see
<sivang> I was also able to install gtk1 over here
<sivang> -gtk1 , that is
<sivang> dholbach, kristog : so probabl we can close this bug when -python is gave back
<dholbach> we can close the bug anyway
<sivang> right
<dholbach> it's about libgalago-gtk
<dholbach> cool
<sivang> they don't depend on it
<sivang> :-)
<jdong> crimsun: when you find some spare time, x264 is ready. Avidemux needs its patch applied, and mplayer just needs a rebuild (bug 63842)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63842 in mplayer "UVF Exception Request: x264 to svn20060928 from marillat" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63842
* sivang goes to do so
<sivang> dholbach: are uploads currently rejected?
<dholbach> not rejected
<dholbach> queued
<sivang> hmm
<dholbach> ubuntu-devel-announce@ has the announce
<sivang> then I've done something wrong
<sivang> Rejected:
<sivang> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a release in the 'CURRENT' state.
<sivang> what does that mean? :-)
<sivang> dholbach: ah, noted.
<sivang> dholbach: but it was rejected, FYI
<dholbach> you uploaded to dapper
<dholbach> ...
<selinuxium> hi there all. I was wondering about the gpg signing thing. A group of us UK ubunteros are heading down to the LinuxExpo in London. I would like to do a gpg key swap to help me start packaging. Is there any MOTU member attending?
<LaserJock> dholbach: reading tollef's Freeze announcement it sounds like we can't upload *anything* without UVFe team approval, is that right?
<dholbach> just ask me for fixes
<dholbach> or ajmitch, or siretart
<dholbach> we'll cheerlead
<dholbach> it's a syouz problem
<LaserJock> ahhh
<dholbach> not component-wise freezing
<LaserJock> will that freeze go away after RC is released?
<dholbach> i doubt it
<siretart> LaserJock: I asked that before. the answer was 'no'
<LaserJock> really??
<LaserJock> that really stinks
<lophyte> well considering we're like 2 weeks from release...
<lophyte> it makes sense
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> you haven't seen our previous releases
<dholbach> and i'll heavily cheerlead for good fixes
<dholbach> so don't let it stop you
<LaserJock> was this discussed at the MOTU Meeting?
<siretart> LaserJock: no, this was decided by the archive admins today, I think
<lophyte> its been on the edgy release schedule forever, hasn't it?
<LaserJock> it would have been nice to have some warning
<LaserJock> lophyte: normally it wouldn't affect Universe like that
* siretart on the way home. cu later!
<lophyte> oh, nm
<lophyte> wrong item
<lophyte> today is "NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline|
<sivang> dholbach: thanks, corrected and reuploaded.
<whiprush> dholbach: nice! I see they got flaim and xflaim already updated!
<dholbach> yep :-)
<dholbach> whiprush: I better not mention tseng's comments about it
<dholbach> whiprush: but thanks for reminding me, I need to mail Andrew about it
<whiprush> dholbach: I'm good for the beers, but I'm not so sure about the sexual favors. :p
<dholbach> hahahahahahahahahahaha
* dholbach hugs whiprush
<dholbach> :-)
<LaserJock> ok, so there is a possibility of getting some HW donation
<gnomefreak> did i miss something while away? we are re-verting artwork back to dappers?
<kristog> LaserJock: how?
<LaserJock> a sales guy at System 76 wants us to send him info on what we'd like for our build farm
<LaserJock> is there anything specific I can send him?
<LaserJock> I'd say we're looking for 2-3 server machines of each arch
<LaserJock> with ssh access and the ability to set up pbuilder
<whiprush> that's a pretty impressive donation!
<LaserJock> well, I don't think they're going to give it all to us
<thom> whiprush: dude!
<whiprush> hi thom!
<LaserJock> but they want to know what we need
<thom> yeah, if they spring for that lot it'd be pretty sweet
<thom> whiprush: are you UDSing? it'd be great to buy you some beer :-)
<whiprush> thom: I will be there!
<whiprush> thom: work-sponsored and everything!
<thom> excellent!
<LaserJock> wahoo
<phanatic> evening
<chillywilly> how can I setup a watch file if the project is on sf.net? Just pick one of the mirrors?
<chillywilly> ah, I can just use their ftp site I support
<chillywilly> suppose*(
<chillywilly> can't type on this weird spit keyboard
<chillywilly> split too
<chillywilly> funny typos
<LaserJock> chillywilly: I think debian has a mechanism for that
<kristog> LaserJock: for do what?
<LaserJock> watch file urls for sf.net
<kristog> chillywilly: http://pastebin.ca/199684
<kristog> something like this
<chantra> !localesconf
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about localesconf - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<chantra> !localeconf
<ubotu> localeconf: debconf interface to locale configuration. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.4.1 (dapper), package size 31 kB, installed size 196 kB
<chantra> !locale
<ubotu> To set up and configure your locales, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LocaleConf
<chantra> arf, localeconf does not let me choose my locales :s
<LaserJock> raphink: you awake still? I need a REVU admin for a sec
<raphink> sure
<raphink> LaserJock: it's 20:20 here
<raphink> so yes i'm awake
<raphink> what do you need me for?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b *!*@*.dsl.pipex.com]  by nalioth
<LaserJock> raphink: can you clear the trapped stuff
<LaserJock> kde-icons-lila in particular
<raphink> which one?
<raphink> done
<LaserJock> thanks
<raphink> yw
<dholbach> good night
<AnAnt> ping dholbach
<dholbach> AnAnt: pong (but about to leave)
<AnAnt> dholbach: well, I want to know where to report my opinion about edgy-gdm-themes
<AnAnt> dholbach: I think the 0.4 one is better than 0.5 (which is actually dapper's theme)
<dholbach> it says so in the changelog
<AnAnt> says what ?
<dholbach> and you will find that the discussion is already going on on ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> it was not my decision
<dholbach> and it's to be discussed on the mailing list
<AnAnt> dholbach: ok, thanks
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> see you guys!
<crimsun> 'night daniel
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<ajmitch> morning all :)
<crimsun> 'morning ajmitch
* dholbach hugs ajmitch
<ajmitch> yay for shift work ;)
<dholbach> have a nice day, daniel!
<dholbach> :-)
<AnAnt> anyone knows the thread that dholbach was refering to regarding the artwork of gdm ?
<mooey> AnAnt, 'reversion to dapper artwork'
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> thanks
<slytherin> kristog: ping
<chillywilly> could the postinst, preinst, postrm, prerm scripts be any more complicated?
<chillywilly> it's kinda wacky stuff
<chillywilly> it's like a big fugly state machine of options
<superm1> in that large unmet deps list, if I catch something that is working (more then likely to the dep it needed being avail now), should I mark it fix released, fix committed or rejected?  (considering nothing changed in the local package)
<crimsun> reject it
<superm1> k
<ajmitch> superm1: only if you know that every binary package for that source package is working
<superm1> I just tried all of the binary packages
<superm1> and they all were installable
<superm1> and when i reran the unmet deps script locally, it didnt even show up in the list
<ajmitch> what package?
<superm1> denyhosts
<ajmitch> uninstallable, it needs python2.3 stuff
<superm1> how do i have python 2.3 stuff installed then?
<ajmitch> which has recently been removed from the archive (or will be in a few days)
<superm1> oh thats why
<superm1> ok then
<ajmitch> yeah, it's just been removed, you probably had it on upgrade
<superm1> yea
<superm1> i can fix up that package to remove all the python2.3 stuff and put a debdiff in the bug then
<ajmitch> it may just need a rebuild, I haven't checked
<ajmitch> hm, no it won't
<superm1> well there is a denyhosts-python2.3 package in it
<superm1> that needs to be removed then
<ajmitch> yep
<superm1> so i'll scrub it
<ajmitch> check in debian first
<ajmitch> odd, debian still has the package, even though the last upload was a week ago
<superm1> Yea debian has a newer version that takes care of this
<superm1> and makes the extra denyhosts-python2.3 package a transitional package
<superm1> could we just sync then, or do we have to bother with a uvfe?
<ajmitch> it's a new upstream, so it needs a UVFe
<ajmitch> archive admins won't sync otherwise
<superm1> oh ok.
<superm1> who should I subscribe on the UVFe bug?
<crimsun> siretart: / ajmitch: regarding bug 63842, may I  1) upload a rebuild-only mplayer, and  2) apply the avidemux patch and upload it?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63842 in mplayer "UVF Exception Request: x264 to svn20060928 from marillat" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63842
<ajmitch> crimsun: yes & yes
<crimsun> ajmitch: thank you
<jdong> crimsun: yay! thanks
<jdong> superm1: motu-uvf typically
<superm1> okay figured as much, all done then. thx
<BHSPitMonkey> it seems banshee-daap is broken
<ajmitch> superm1: attached changelog, diffstat, build log, etc?
<ajmitch> BHSPitMonkey: then file a bug
<superm1> No i haven't, didnt realize I needed to.  I'll do so right now
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<superm1> k thx
<BHSPitMonkey> ajmitch, should the Bugs link work on that package's launchpad page?
<BHSPitMonkey> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+package/banshee-daap
<ajmitch>  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+package/banshee-daap
<ajmitch> hm, sorry
* ajmitch hates win XP
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bugs
<BHSPitMonkey> ah
<BHSPitMonkey> so, I wouldn't file a bug against the actual package for that plugin?
<BHSPitMonkey> because the rest works, the plugin just doesn't
<ajmitch> file bugs against source packages
<ajmitch> you can write in that it's banshee-daap that's broken
<ajmitch> if the bug isn't already filed
<ajmitch> you haven't said how it's broken yet
<chillywilly> there's some CVS dirs in the upstream source tarball that lintian gives a warning about...can I just ignore this warning?
<chillywilly> these*
<crimsun> siretart: / ajmitch: regarding bug 63001 and bug 63055, may I apply the attached debdiff (identical for both bug reports) and upload?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63001 in flashplugin-nonfree "Recommends libesd-alsa0 incorrectly" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63001
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63055 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree installation fails, if flashplayer-mozilla is installed (should conflict)" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63055
<ajmitch> crimsun: yes, you don't need to ask before uploading, but letting us know is good
<ajmitch> since we then know what change was made when the archive team asks :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: oh, I was under the impression that I needed the UVFe's team's prior to uploading, but ok :)  Thanks.
<crimsun> UVFe team's, even
* ajmitch will soon see if this freeze is manageable & sane
<crimsun> bah, UVFe team's approval
<ajmitch> approval is needed before they're accepted, but I hope that people just upload instead of waiting for us
<chillywilly> when is edgy coming out?
<ajmitch> I don't want to slow down the bugfixes :)
<ajmitch> oct 26th
<chillywilly> ooooh, looks like lintian is unhappy about several things
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> ajmitch: woah, that's quick....it's been 6 months already?
<ajmitch> 4.5
<chillywilly> :-o
<ajmitch> dapper released on june 1
<Plug> that'll be oct 27 our-time
<Plug> which is my birthday!
<superm1> ajmitch, if a package just needs to be rebuilt, should I prod one of you guys to do it right now, or just notate it in the bug and wait till someone catches it?
<ajmitch> superm1: if you note it in a bug, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<superm1> K
* ajmitch doesn't really have time to look at rebuilds right now
<superm1> hehe
<chillywilly> this edgy release is going to be a bit bleeding edge isn't it?
<ajmitch> not at all
<chillywilly> looks like I have some work to do on this...need write 2 man pages and finish my TODO list
<chillywilly> ajmitch: is canonical providing support for edgy?
<ajmitch> yes
<chillywilly> how long?
<ajmitch> they commit to supporting each distro
<ajmitch> 18 months, same as the others
<chillywilly> ok, but isn't dapper even longer?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> that's why it got the term LTS
<chillywilly> right
<chillywilly> ok, well just wondering if I should upgrade when the time comes :)
<chillywilly> I don't have any support contract or anything like that
<chillywilly> Linda: Unable to find a suitable .mo file!
<chillywilly> what does that mean?
<ajmitch> that linda has issues
<chillywilly> :-/
<ajmitch> blame the australian
<chillywilly> who?
* ajmitch cannot say his name
<ajmitch> since he lives in this channel :)
<chillywilly> I think I figured out who he is by looking at the copyright line in linda ;)
<chillywilly> nothing replaces lintian eh? ;)
* chillywilly runs off
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-13
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> superm1 is on IRC right now!
<lophyte> he is?
<lophyte> o_o
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> Hi
<lophyte> hehe
<lophyte> hiya
<lophyte> I *may* get that box by the weekend..
<geser> night
<chillywilly> wtf is an "Eft" anyway?
<lophyte> wikipedia?
<chillywilly> Ent would've been much cooler ;)
<Hawkwind> a newt in its terrestrial stage of development
<Hawkwind> Google.com and type  define:eft  :P
<chillywilly> electronic fund trasnfer ;)
<chillywilly> funds*
<chillywilly> j/k
<ajmitch> too warm in the office today
<theCore> hello, all
<theCore> does somebody could sync a package for me?
<theCore> I got a UVF exception approval, but I can't do the sync because I'm not a MOTU (yet :)
<pirast> which bug report is it?
<pirast> subscribing ubuntu-archive should be sufficent
<pirast> theCore
<theCore> bug 64535
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64535 in libming "UVF Exception: libming (0.3beta1) -> ming (0.3.0)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64535
<theCore> pirast, ^
<pirast> theCore, it should be sufficent to subscribe ubuntu-archive, which I already did for you.. that worked for 5 uvf exceptions for me..
<theCore> how I do that?
<theCore> it's a mailing list?
<ajmitch> theCore: please write it up according to the sync request requirements
<pirast> in the bug report you click on "Subscribe"
<theCore> oh
<pirast> err
<theCore> I get it now
<pirast> in the bug report you click on "Subscribe Someone Else"
<ajmitch> which means you have to include the debian changelog entries
<pirast> enter ubuntu-archive in the file and press add
<ajmitch> otherwise the archive admins will just tell you no
<ajmitch> please do it before you subscribe..
<theCore> ajmitch, they're all there in the bug
<ajmitch> no they're not
<ajmitch> you have the upstream changelog diff
<theCore> what, I need post them explicitly?
<ajmitch> you need the debian/changelog entries
<theCore> ok, I will upload them
<ajmitch> just paste it in, please
<pirast> ajmitch, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF does not mention it.. and it worked for me 5 times..
<theCore> ajmitch, no diff
<theCore> ajmitch, just the changelog?
<ajmitch> just the new changelog entries
<ajmitch> eg https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pybluez/+bug/65519
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65519 in pybluez "pybluez: 0.7-3build1 -> 0.9.1-1 - please sync from Debian" [Medium,Confirmed] 
<ajmitch> has the debian changelog entries
<theCore> ajmitch, ok thanks
<ajmitch> pirast: it really is best to just paste stuff now rather than be turned down later
<pirast> ajmitch, yeah you are right..
<ajmitch> especially since we're in archive freeze mode
<ajmitch> so everything needs approved
<imbrandon_> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon_
<pirast> could anyone maybe have a look at bug 65289?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65289 in skribe "not installable, not buildable" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65289
<pirast> it seems to me that we have only two solutions ; delete it from edgy or somehow fix skribe to compile with a newer bigloo version
<pirast> when you have an other idea, please write it down there..
<pirast> thanks
<pirast> 03:21.. going to bed now..
<pirast> night
<ajmitch> night
<theCore> pirast, thanks for the help
<pirast> theCore, np..
<ajmitch> oh well
<theCore> I upload it the changelog
<theCore> I hope it will be okay
<ajmitch> they prefer that just the changes for the sync be pasted, but oh well
<ajmitch> we'll see
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> good afternoon
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<chillywilly> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi chillywilly
* ajmitch looks for something to stab
<ajmitch> 3rd party package breakage..
<ajmitch> sigh
* Toadstool definitively removed his name from the MV attendees list :(
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<ajmitch> Toadstool: you can't go? :(
<Toadstool> nope, too much work
<ajmitch> sad
<Toadstool> yup :(
<Toadstool> I swear I will go to the next one ;)
<Toadstool> hmm, we're in RC freeze for Universe too?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> so we need to know & approve uploads
<Toadstool> ok, good to know, I was not sure, I read tfheen in a rush between 2 meetings :p
<Toadstool> +'s mail
<Toadstool> wow I love apport-retrace
* Toadstool hugs pitti
<BHSPitMonkey> hmm
* BHSPitMonkey looks frantically around for keybuk
<Hobbsee> BHSPitMonkey: not here.  and usually in #ubuntu-devel anyway
* Hobbsee considers goign over to the dark side
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
<BHSPitMonkey> Hobbsee, he hasn't been in there, either :(
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: dark side?
<Hobbsee> BHSPitMonkey: he's likely asleep or something then
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: yeah.  like, apt ubuntu-desktop type badside
<BHSPitMonkey> Hobbsee, for a day?
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: haha
<ajmitch> BHSPitMonkey: why do you need keybuk?
<BHSPitMonkey> I just wanted to ask him something
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: i dont know if it's worth it though
<BHSPitMonkey> it's not as frantic as I made it out to sound
<ajmitch> yes, like asking for him twice earlier, only a few minutes apart :)
<BHSPitMonkey> do what?
<BHSPitMonkey> oh
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: believe me, it's worth trying :p
<BHSPitMonkey> well more people joined, and nobody had responded
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: yeah, but for edgy, or edgy+1?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: DO IT!!
<Toadstool> :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: but...gnome is gnomelike...
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: NOW!!
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: full of gnomy goodness!
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> tastes better!
<ajmitch> works smarter!
* Hobbsee notes that it did have some nice stuff
<Hobbsee> last time i tried it anyway
* Toadstool bewitches Hobbsee and gnomifies her
* Hobbsee turns into a gnome.  yay
* Hobbsee bites Toadstool 
<Toadstool> :D
<ajmitch> nice, new UWN - thanks Burgundavia :)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: your welcome
* ajmitch doesn't know who else works on it
<Burgundavia> read it and find out
<ajmitch> oh you mentioned f-spot as well
<Burgundavia> the names who worked on each issue are clearly laid out
<ajmitch> so 3 of the packages I worked on got mentioned - nice
<ajmitch> (phpgroupware was mentioned in backports)
<ajmitch> make that 4, I helped with ironpython
<ajmitch> an unusual week :)
<Toadstool> let's call this issue ajmitch weekly newsletter ;)
<ajmitch> Toadstool: my efforts are but a drop in the bucket compared to everyone else :)
<Toadstool> right.. :)
<Toadstool> my efforts miss the bucket then :p
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> not at all
<Toadstool> anyway, I am falling asleep on my keyboard, time to go to bed
<Toadstool> cya
<ajmitch> bye Toadstool
<ajmitch> hi nictuku
<nictuku> hello ajmitch
<chillywilly> hi
<chillywilly> bah, this is taking a bit of time ;P
<yoshiznit124> would it be helpful to motu if i included my own debian/ directory in my project, or would they still have write their own packaging stuff?
<Hobbsee> yoshiznit124: it wouldnt.  it's highly annoying
<yoshiznit124> hmm
<yoshiznit124> how so? and how could i make it easier for inclusion into main?
<yoshiznit124> for the motu people, that is
<yoshiznit124> hobbsee, how so? and how could i make it easier for inclusion into main?
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<minghua> yoshiznit124: you are free to put a debian/ dir in your project, but please don't put it in your released tarball
<yoshiznit124> minghua, ok cool. the thing is i'd like to provide deb packages, but i don't have time to full-time motu
<minghua> yoshiznit124: sounds good, that way impatient users can use your unofficial packaging, and the Debian/Ubuntu maintainers will use your released tarball and your debian/ dir won't get in the way
<minghua> yoshiznit124: I'd also like to ask you to make the version of your packages (debian/changelog) clearly showing that they are not from Debian/Ubuntu, thanks
<yoshiznit124> minghua, ok
<Kagou> morning
<Lathiat> ajmitch: about?
<Lathiat> when is slomo usually around?
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> Hey dholbach
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
<elmargol> to bad that edgy is frozen :( shipping edgy with broken ipod 6thgen support just sucks :(
<tepsipakki> elmargol: depends how intrusive changes would be needed
<tepsipakki> elmargol: you mean gtkpod-0.99.8 would be needed?
<tepsipakki> and libgpod 0.4.0
<tepsipakki> it just sucks that gtkpod upstream doesn't release more often ;)
<tepsipakki> what kind of a jump is it from 0.99.4 to 0.99.8 ?-)
<tepsipakki> elmargol: you can file an UVF-exception and see how it goes
<elmargol> tepsipakki: I think the problem is libgpod is used by a lot of applications, rhythmbox, amarok, banshee, gpodder, gtkpod...
<elmargol> seb mentioned that the 0.4.0 version breaks API
<ajmitch> Lathiat: slomo is away on holiday
<Lathiat> ajmitch: ah right
<ajmitch> hi \sh
* ajmitch checks on uvf bugs
<\sh> moins
<\sh> omni backup is running nicely on ubuntu dapper server ... creating a package now ,)
<ajmitch> yay
<phanatic> good afternoon
<ctrlsoft> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hi ctrlsoft
<sladen> yo people
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> I said I was going to get an early night..
<ajmitch> but it's past 1AM again
<\sh> hehe
<ajmitch> night :)
<kristog> hello
<Tonio_> hello
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lophyte> howdy
<bddebian> Hello lophyte
<lophyte> how's it going?
<bddebian> Busy (unfortunately not with Ubuntu stuff :-( ).  You?
<lophyte> trying to get unbuffered stream output from a child process in python
<bddebian> Joy :)
<lophyte> yeah :P
<lophyte> its a real pain.. I'm beginning to get the feeling you can't do it
<superm1> So, how does one sign local binary packages built by pbuilder?  It seems like you would just pass a -sa and a -k0xXXXXXX, but I'm not sure.
<Hobbsee> superm1: why do you want to sign a binary package?
<superm1> i'm looking to put up a local repository
<superm1> and wanted to sign the packages when building them for it
<Hobbsee> ah
<superm1> I was assuming that would allieviate the authentication errors once I imported my GPG key to the keyring and used signed packages
<superm1> makes testing things in a local network a little smoother
<imbrandon> no you need to sign the release file
<imbrandon> nothing to do with the packages
<superm1> Oh, there is no need to sign packages
<imbrandon> e.g i can put precompiled packages from you in my repo but as long as you have my key you dont get the warning
<superm1> oh i see.  that makes more sense anyhow
<imbrandon> correct, its all in how you make the repo
<imbrandon> personaly i use falcon and it takes care of all this, but i'm sure you can read the man for what ever you use to make the repo
<superm1> well i was going to assemble this using falcon, but was having trouble finding its source
<superm1> at least on the LP page
<imbrandon> if you think about it the packages in the ubuntu repo are signed by many hundreds of people
<imbrandon> but the repo is signed by ftpmaster@ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> its on any seveas mirror ( e.g seveas.imbrandon.com )
<superm1> well i was thinking that possibly it signed during the build process by ftpmaster@ubuntu.com as well
<imbrandon> in the extras component
<superm1> oh okay great
<superm1> thx
<lophyte> heya superm1
<superm1> hey lophyte
<lophyte> how's it going?
<superm1> alright
<imbrandon> fyi the dapper deb works fine on edgy but feel free to rebuild from source
<superm1> is it going to make it into universe eventually?
<Mez> imbrandon, what's falcomn ?
<superm1> https://launchpad.net/products/falcon
<imbrandon> Mez, a repo maintaner
<imbrandon> builds and maintains and mirrors a personal repo
<superm1> its supposed to greatly simplify the process so you dont have to manually do dpkg-scanpackages and dpkg-scansources and sign and such
<imbrandon> like the one on imbrandon.com ( or any of seveas's repos ) and a few others
<Mez> imbrandon, lol - I built a signing script for repos... I believe Riddell used it for a while
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> Mez, well this was made by seveas, its actualy builds the dists and alot of other maint things
<imbrandon> not just signing the repo ;)
<Mez> ;)
<\sh> hmm...export SUDO_FORCE_REMOVE=yes ; apt-get install sudo-ldap libnss-ldap libpam-ldap ldap-utils ; some magic in ldap.conf, copy one ssl pem file, adjusted /etc/pam.d all in all 5 mins and ubuntu server was inserted in our ldap user auth environment
<Mez> YEAH THIS DID TOO - IT WORKED FROM A POOL AND THEN BUIOLTS STUFF
<Mez> darn caps
<\sh> and no compile orgy for sudo with ldap support as on suse
<superm1> imbrandon, so about falcon though, what exactly is the hold up for it getting into universe?
<Adri2000> what's correct in english: "replace x by y" or "replace x to y" ? I think the first one is better
<lophyte> replace x with y
<Adri2000> ahh, ok
<lophyte> or x was replaced by y
<Adri2000> ok
<imbrandon> superm1, seveas the upstream author dosent want it in /yet/, it will be for edgy+1
<superm1> i see
<Adri2000> I need someone on amd64 to try to build a package, please :)
<Adri2000> someone on amd64: apt-get source djplay, and apply the debdiff http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/djplay_0.3.0-0ubuntu2.debdiff, if it builds and works, it's good :)
<superm1> Adri2000, I can queue her up
<Adri2000> superm1: sorry, I don't understand what you mean :s
<superm1> Adri2000, I started a build for it on my amd64 box at home
<superm1> Adri2000, I'm at work though, so 'll be able to tell you if it builds, but if its not text based i cant check how well it runs
<Adri2000> ok, yes it's gui based, but if it builds it's already a good point, thank you :)
<superm1> Not a problem
<superm1> :0
<superm1> is it a big build?
<Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/djplay/+builds?build_state=all :p
<superm1> k good.
<superm1> No it did error out
<Adri2000> ah :(
<superm1> let me make a pastebin of where it errored
<finalbeta> (I might be in the wrong channel, if so, send me packing in the right way). I'm writing a spec, but I'm an end user. looking for someone who is willing to have a look at it and say if it's even sane or on the right way. ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PartitionConfigure )
<superm1> http://pastebin.arslinux.com/3914
<Adri2000> ahhhhhhhhh, shame on me, I forgot to patch one line
<superm1> hehe
<Adri2000> superm1: should be ok now, the debdiff is at the same adress
<tucoz> does neutrinomass hang around here some time?
<tucoz> \sh_away, hi,i see that you created the nedit package for edgy. The problem is that nedit does not work in edgy as described in this bug report https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nedit/+bug/57808
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57808 in nedit "nedit does not start" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
<tucoz> the reason that i come here, is that there has been little movement wrt that bug lately.
<Adri2000> superm1 gone :( anyone else on 64 bits ?
<superm1> Adri2000, looks to have built fine this time
<Adri2000> great :) thanks again
<superm1> not a problem, glad to help :)
<Adri2000> dholbach: ping :)
<dholbach> Adri2000: pong!
<Adri2000> dholbach: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/djplay_0.3.0-0ubuntu2.debdiff is that ok for upload?
<dholbach> Adri2000: tested on amd64?
<Adri2000> superm1 just said it builds, and someone on the upstream mailing list who gave me the original patch says it builds and it works. And Gloubiboulga and me tested on x86, it still builds and works :)
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> go ahead
* dholbach -> break
<Adri2000> ok, cool :))
<dholbach> have a nice weekend
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: :)
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: sync request on planner done.
<dholbach> i saw it
<ajmitch> morning
<lophyte> heya
<Q-FUNK> *yawn*
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 48m 57s ago, quiting: Remote closed the connection
<finalbeta> Don't know if this is the right channel, so sry if no. I'm writing a spec about a feature that would let ubuntu handle adding of physical drives/ mounting of partitions for end desktop users. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PartitionConfigure if you have some time, please have a read, tell me if it's possible, change edit scratch etc. thnx
<ajmitch> ok,  how is it different from the disks admin tool that is/was in the admin menu?
<ajmitch> looks like it could be useful though, especially with things like the UUID-based mounting we have that confuses people
<finalbeta> the forums already have several questions about those uuid's, they didn't make it any less confusing.
<finalbeta> This would just notice that the layout has changed, and offer some standard choises in a GUIish way. This would keep the users away from fstab.
<finalbeta> Well, away... Would make linux less scaring for new users :p
<finalbeta> I think at first it could stay simple and just detect new local file systems that could be mounted, and auto mount them if the user wants.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-14
<ctrlsoft> ajmitch: Is there some ubuntu equivalent to the NEW queue or incoming?
<imbrandon> ctrlsoft, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<imbrandon> and s/edgy/dapper/
<secretlondon> We need some motu advice re: bug #65451. gnomesword is borked and only compiles with old libraries. the old library has the same name as current library, and other stuff depends on it. what's the protocol for this sort of thing?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65451 in gnomesword "[UNMETDEPS]  gnomesword has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65451
<imbrandon> secretlondon, fix gnomesword to use the new libs ;)
<secretlondon> imbrandon: if I was christian, and I could code then maybe..
<ajmitch> ctrlsoft: as imbrandon said, but uploads are going into unapproved at the moment, which we can't see
<imbrandon> well i dident mean YOU specificly, you asked the proceedure
<secretlondon> we wondered whether we should upload the old library with a -old suffix
<ajmitch> I did get a mail about bzr-svn going into NEW
<secretlondon> imbrandon; ok
<imbrandon> secretlondon, no
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> seems that gnomesword is a popular package to look at these days
<secretlondon> imbrandon: ok thanks
<ajmitch> I've seen at least 5 different people mention it
<pirast> :-P
<secretlondon> ajmitch: it's the christian ubuntuista's software program
<ajmitch> secretlondon: yes, I find it quite useful
<secretlondon> ajmitch : cool
<pirast> how can I see which packages depend on skribe?
<ajmitch> apt-cache rdepends skribe
<ajmitch> or whatever the binary package name is
<pirast> ajmitch, thanks
* imbrandon wonders what the holdup on the new name announcement is, "they" said sabdfl has already picked it just not announced it
<secretlondon> imbrandon: everyone's been speculating for weeks
<secretlondon> maybe announced when edgy is released?
<ajmitch> I've heard rumours
<ajmitch> no more
<imbrandon> ajmitch, Riddell and a few others ( canonical employees ? ) know but cant say and like a week ago said he was about to send the email out to the -devel-announce , but it never came accross
<imbrandon> soooo /me has just been wondering
<secretlondon> we're presuming it's going to be an 'F' - so a theme with F for the release.
<secretlondon> my guess is 'flashy' something
<ajmitch> my guess is 'feisty', given comments made in -devel
<imbrandon> secretlondon, yea thats kinda given ;)
<secretlondon> with the talk of eye candy and gadgetry
<secretlondon> imbrandon: I think officially we can miss letters out
<pirast> ajmitch, does the command also look for build dependencies?
<bddebian> No, you have to use something like grep-dctrl for build-deps :-(
<ajmitch> pirast: no
<secretlondon> I like ferret for the animal ;)
<ajmitch> that's not particularly hard though
<imbrandon> pirast, no
<imbrandon> pirast, apt-cache show <source package>
<pirast> re..
<imbrandon> pirast, apt-cache show <source package>
<secretlondon> re
<pirast> k... im just wondering because of bug 65289.. it would be probably the best to remove it from the ubuntu archive since the devs do not fix the problem..
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65289 in skribe "[UNMETDEPS]  not installable, not buildable" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65289
<pirast> as long as it does not break anything other..
<StevenK> Something else uses skribe.
<imbrandon> looks like it just needs a rebuild, checking it now
<StevenK> imbrandon: It also said "not buildable"
<StevenK> That implies it needs more than just a rebuild.
* imbrandon waves at StevenK
* StevenK waves bac
<ajmitch> morning StevenK
<StevenK> Er, back
<StevenK> It's morning?!
<StevenK> Oh, it is.
<ajmitch> for you, at least
<secretlondon> its 1.20 am here - def morning ;)
<StevenK> That's morning.
* secretlondon nods.
<imbrandon> 7:15 pm for me ;)
<secretlondon> cts?
<secretlondon> cst?
<imbrandon> that would be me , yes
* imbrandon got his plane tickets for UDS today, i have to leave home at 3AM !?!
<StevenK> 6am flight?
<ajmitch> lucky you
* ajmitch still doesn't know if he can go
<imbrandon> yea 6am flight
<StevenK> imbrandon: Yeah, but you'll get there the same day. ajmitch and I (if I was going) would be flying over a day.
<imbrandon> yea, that kinda sucks
* imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> hum i wonder how good celular broadband support is
<imbrandon> anyone ever used it in debian/ubuntu ?
<secretlondon> like 3g mobile phones?
<secretlondon> I'm not sure there is an international standard - mobile phone related stuff seems quite regional
<imbrandon> the would be one way yes ( via a usb adapter i'm assuming you mean )
<imbrandon> secretlondon, do you normaly go by another name? or have i just not seen you before?
<secretlondon> imbrandon: I'm not sure what you meant by "cellular". I think WiMax may be more interesting as it has a larger range than 802.11
<secretlondon> this is my normal name. i'm a bug squad person
<imbrandon> ajmitch, have time to sponsor a DD upload sometime today ?
<secretlondon> i don't normally hang out in -motu
* StevenK hears "sponsor" and "DD" and runs away.
<imbrandon> secretlondon, ahh ok no wonder i have never seen you arround, anyhow i ment exactly what i said celular broadband ;) not WiMax
<imbrandon> StevenK, haha
<secretlondon> imbrandon: which is called different stuff in different countries i think. US English calls mobile phones - cell phones so presuming what is sold here as "3g" I think
<secretlondon> imbrandon: I probably should know as I'm a networking student but I don't tbh
<imbrandon> well it really has very little to do with cell phones , or even cellular phone networks unless you use the fallback 144k
<imbrandon> secretlondon, here is more about what i'm talking about http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd5.html
<imbrandon> just fyi
<secretlondon> imbrandon: thanks. i was looking in wikipedia with no luck
<ajmitch> imbrandon: depends on what it is
<imbrandon> apt-mirror ( trivial changes , not the repackageing like i was talking )
<imbrandon> not a NMU
<ajmitch> I'll consider it :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<secretlondon> imbrandon: don't think we have that in the uk. (but i'm not sure what it is exactly). I was thinking you meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Downlink_Packet_Access
<imbrandon> secretlondon, you probably dont , afaik its only avail in US / JP and only on some networks
<imbrandon> e.g. Verizon
<secretlondon> imbrandon: looks like it.
<imbrandon> guess i'll just play with it and find out, wifi spots suck
<imbrandon> moins Hobbsee
<secretlondon> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon, secretlondon
<secretlondon> imbrandon: still can't work out exactly what verizon are selling ;)
<imbrandon> celular broadband ;)
<secretlondon> imbrandon: yeah, but which standard ;)
<imbrandon> 2mb down , 384kb up
<imbrandon> anywhere you can get celular service, even driving down the road
<imbrandon> verizons ;)
<imbrandon> there isnt really a standard used by them all yet
<secretlondon> imbrandon: "cellular broadband" is a bit like "wireless internet" - it can refer to all sort of stuff;)
<secretlondon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadband_wireless_access
<imbrandon> exactly
<imbrandon> e.g. i dont want wifi, i want broadband over celular networks so i dont have to find hotspots
<imbrandon> i dont care what standard, tyhus the generazation
<imbrandon> it was intentiaonal
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: deal with the mess in #ubuntu please :P
<imbrandon> ugh , ok
<imbrandon> seems to have been over before i looked
<Hobbsee> yeah, until they hit again
<imbrandon> rob and nailoth are both arround now too
<imbrandon> so hopefully* it wont happen again
<imbrandon> lol, who am i kidding
<imbrandon> anyhow , i'll try to keep an eye out
<StevenK> Oh yes, the ever-vigilant ops of #ubuntu
* StevenK smirks
<imbrandon> hum what package provides afile ?
<imbrandon> lol
* imbrandon ops StevenK
* Hobbsee attacks StevenK with her long pointy stick of DOOM!
<Hobbsee> StevenK: that's what we have !ops for
* StevenK dodges the attack
<Hobbsee> you cant.
<StevenK> Sure I can. I just did.
* Hobbsee spears you again, and hits this time.
<StevenK> Ouch
<StevenK> That's going to bleed when my heart beats.
<imbrandon> ...
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<imbrandon> you know, hrm i dont even know how to explain it, but anyone else ever get the feeling that Ian "gets it" be debian as a whole dosent ( atleaste the _loud minority_ )?
<imbrandon> s/be/but
<imbrandon> see i told you emacs is a OS not a text editor , look it has an IRC Client
* imbrandon ducks
<BHSPitMonkey> it's more of a desktop shell
<BHSPitMonkey>                ^multi-platform
<imbrandon> BHSPitMonkey, that was sarcasim ;)
<imbrandon> heya elkbuntu
<Hobbsee> hey elkbuntu!
<elkbuntu> hi :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, so whats that script for? i'm looking at it now
<imbrandon> looks like a pbuiler kinda
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> sbuild, schroot & lvm snapshots
<ajmitch> maybe it can be an excuse for me to extend my RAID array & get some slack space for LVM ;)
<imbrandon> so whats the advantage over pbuilder
<imbrandon> this might be nive to setup on the build machine i have
<ajmitch> there are a few differences, and it's often faster
<imbrandon> for us to use
<ajmitch> siretart can tell you more
<imbrandon> if it has advantages
<ajmitch> as I said in -devel, I'd like to set this up with xen vm snapshots
<Burgundavia> hmm, fracking gmail died
<ajmitch> so you can effectively bootup a machine in a couple of seconds
<ajmitch> hey Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> means not only can I not read my email, I can't even write the UWN
<ajmitch> uh oh\
<imbrandon> yea
<ajmitch> that's not good
<imbrandon> that would rock for the x86 arches
<imbrandon> ouch
<imbrandon> gmail seems ok here Burgundavia whats the issue ?
<imbrandon> i just logged in and checked ( as all my mail gets shipped though gmail )
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: gmail is very regional
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> can you get to it from a proxy ?
<Burgundavia> no
<imbrandon> ouch
<Burgundavia> there we go
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
<ajmitch> jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> hi Burgundavia how are you doing?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> fighting with nfs and openldap at work today
<Burgundavia> I officially declare that setting up ldap sucks
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: of course, we all know that
<jsgotangco> well it is quite a bit of work on gnu/linux
<Burgundavia> plus there are no good gui tools that run on dapper
<Burgundavia> lat is only the half decent one, and it needs edgy's mono
<ajmitch> the question is how can it be fixed *right*?
<ajmitch> sigh, more tools I didn't know about, which we could have put in edgy :)
<Burgundavia> installing openldap needs to ask more questions and then tell you at the end of debconf how to connect to the server
<Burgundavia> lat is already in edgy
<Burgundavia> lat rocks
<ajmitch> oh good
* ajmitch should check it for sanity
<Burgundavia> proposed for 2.18 admin upstream
<ajmitch> 1.0.7 in edgy
<Burgundavia> ugh, only 1.0.7?
<Burgundavia> newest is 1.2
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> looks like 1.0.7 is fairly recent though
<Burgundavia> the 1.0 series is pretty crappy
<ajmitch> excellent, the package even follows the CLI policy for mono apps
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu needs to say "here is our preferred graphical ldap client"
<Burgundavia> one click client side
* Burgundavia glares at ajmitch
<ajmitch> spec it
<Burgundavia> I plan to, this weekend
<ajmitch> sure, glare at me..
<Burgundavia> you're the one that didn't finish your bloody SoC to make it easy, dammit
* ajmitch should go & work on something else, like fedora
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: it sounds like a good plan
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: yeah, I'd be more welcome :)
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> if I didn't love you ajmitch, I wouldn't give you such a hard time
<ajmitch> I'm sure
<jsgotangco> heh ive been doing a lot of slackware myself lately
* TheMuso shudders at hearing the name of that ill begotten distro.
<jsgotangco> :P
<Burgundavia> I need to figure out how to connect my FC4 clients at work to my ldap machine
<Burgundavia> sigh, more frakking learnign
<ajmitch> I suppose I should hack some more on that code
<ajmitch> annoying deadlines at work sucking up time..
<Burgundavia> how advanced is tasksel?
<Burgundavia> can you do configuration stuff to packages?
<ajmitch> not particularly
<Burgundavia> ie: instlal openldap and ssl (or something else) and configure them to work together?
<ajmitch> the config stuff has to be done in package maintainer scripts, or externally
<ajmitch> I went for the external route
<Burgundavia> ah
<ajmitch> since most of the maintainer scripts did what I wanted
<Burgundavia> I want a "directory server" task
<ajmitch> so do I :)
<Burgundavia> install everything, configure securly, ask me for a password and then tell me to install lat on my desktop
<ajmitch> as much as I'd love to have FDS working, it's a nightmare
<Burgundavia> everything else would happen via lat
<ajmitch> to get it packaged properly would probably mean that FDS is converted to use autotools
<Burgundavia> ah
<ajmitch> & even then it's a pain
<Burgundavia> doesn't FDS have some non-free Java stuff?
<Burgundavia> luckily it didn't go throught Novell or it might have some mono stuff alongside that Java
<ajmitch> I thought they managed to get the java stuff working with gcj, last I heard
<ajmitch> at least it'd run with gcj stuff
<ajmitch> I could be quite wrong as usual
<Burgundavia> I think FDS is the future of free ldap
<ajmitch> it has a lot of potential
<Burgundavia> You'll need an http server installed and a Sun Java Runtime Environment.
<Burgundavia> http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6310/1/
* imbrandon would be happier with mono vs java
<ajmitch> but it can't be the future in its current state
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> it seems like RH has done its initial work and has dropped it
<ajmitch> hoping that a community will spring up magically to work on it
<Burgundavia> very RH
<ajmitch> "Unfortunately, the console does not (yet) build and run with the open source GNU gcj/Classpath java implementation, but we are working on it. We thought that gcc/gcj 4.1 included with Fedora Core 5 would work, but it still has many problems, so your best bet is to use Sun or IBM JRE."
<Burgundavia> upsream devel list is mostly bug fixing
<Burgundavia> no vision there
<Burgundavia> cvs shows activity
<ajmitch> yeah, I have cvs checked out
<ajmitch> it's not a lot of activity
<ajmitch> there's some progress on buidl system stuff
<ajmitch> finally
<Burgundavia> Mark is working on his shiny landscape stuff
<Burgundavia> which he refuses to tell us about
<ajmitch> free software development at its best
<Burgundavia> ugh
<Burgundavia> at least the client must be open source, as it will be part of the defauklt Ubuntu instlal
<Burgundavia> although it will be interesting to see what happens with the actual code
<ajmitch> hasn't he learnt from the feedback & ideas that come out of openly developing code?
<Burgundavia> will they follow policy and put it into dapper-updates
<Burgundavia> or will Mark overrule them and change the dapper package directly
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> Mark is a very secretive person
<ajmitch> most likely -updates
<ajmitch> I really hope so
<Burgundavia> he likes to be able to surprise people, please he is a little gunshy about preannouncing stuff
<Burgundavia> however, yes, he needs to be more open
<ajmitch> seems like FDS should have 1.0.3 out soon
<ajmitch> reading the recent commits
<Burgundavia> very cool
<Burgundavia> what does .3 give us?
<ajmitch> no idea, it's hard to get an overview from a changelog
<Burgundavia> idiots
<ajmitch> I'm looking at the cvs2cl output, not any NEWS file
<ajmitch> so you can't blame them
<Burgundavia> even bigger idiots for not having a NEWS file
<Burgundavia> however, here is one issue I see
<Burgundavia> currently sudo-ldap is in universe
<Burgundavia> it shoudl not be
<ajmitch> they probably do have a NEWS file for each module
<ajmitch> there's plenty of stuff in universe that shouldn't be
<ajmitch> like libnss-ldap
<ajmitch> which has had so many problems
<Burgundavia> you serious?
<ajmitch> quite
<Burgundavia> don't I need that for client side ldap stuff?
<ajmitch> yes
<Burgundavia> crap
<ajmitch> but it had 5 RC bugs open in debian until recently
<ajmitch> and hung udev, etc
<ajmitch> still has issues, I have to change the default bind-policy
<Burgundavia> ok, I have lots of spec out
<ajmitch> since the debian fix won't work for us - requires newer initscripts
<ajmitch> great
<Burgundavia> can you email me a list of things you think I need?
<ajmitch> I'll probably sit at home drinking that week :)
<Burgundavia> or better yet, create some sort of wiki page?
<ajmitch> I can look around for some spare time & what's needed
<ajmitch> easy part is that the code I wrote has sets of required packages for each auth method :)
<Burgundavia> perfect
<ajmitch> of course libnss-ldap didn't want to cooperate there & still needed to throw up debconf questions inside my app
<Burgundavia> can I just reup the network auth stuff for the client side?
<Burgundavia> the spec, that is
<ajmitch> do what you want with it
<ajmitch> someone will probably decide what way it should be implemented for edgy+1, my code probably won't be it
<Burgundavia> please edit that spec with as much info as you have
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: are you going to mtv?
<Burgundavia> links to your code, pitfalls, etc.
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: work and I are negotiating
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> ajmitch: are you?
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: can't afford it
<jsgotangco> aww
* ajmitch is a poor, poor kiwi :)
* jsgotangco poorer still
<Burgundavia> come this time next year, I think I should be in the position to sponsor at least one person to conference
<Burgundavia> given my fetish for all things adminy, don't be surprised if I choose somebody who can do that kind of stuff
<ajmitch> depends where it is
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> userful sponsoring someone to fix something for them to sell?
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burgundavia> Maintainer: Andrew Hodgkinson (Sr. Software Engineer) <ahodgkinson@novell.com> <-- things I thought I would never see
<ajmitch> yeah, that was funny
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: the world changes rapidly
<Burgundavia> this time next year I hope to have a Fedora free office
<ajmitch> by this time next year, I have no idea what I'll be doing :)
<jsgotangco> well the world is flat anyways, some people will bite that offer
<Burgundavia> colleague of mine just rippped out 100 Ubuntu thin clients and installed 100 DiscoverStations
<Burgundavia> Yakima Valley, WA
<ajmitch> what reasons?
<Burgundavia> not certain
<Burgundavia> think admin was tired of dealing with it
<ajmitch> probably to do with admin stuff
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<ajmitch> somewhere that we know ubuntu sucks
<Burgundavia> I need to get him on the phone
<imbrandon> mcs /out:ktunes.exe *.cs /r:System.Windows.Forms.dll /r:System.Drawing.dll
<jsgotangco> what for? have him reconsider?
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon> whoops
<ajmitch> imbrandon: impressive
<Burgundavia> no, to find out what things sucked, specifically
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> im going to do some work
<jsgotangco> bbl
* ajmitch wonders why X is spinning at 50%+ cpu usage
<imbrandon> ajmitch, heh not really
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: so apart from a few packages in main, what do you really want? :)
<imbrandon> bah, i'm going to bed, nuff fighting with qt c# bindings for one night
<imbrandon> gnight all
<ajmitch> night imbrandon
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: glue, lots and lots of glue
<Burgundavia> we need to first match AD as of W2K
<ajmitch> that's a 2-3 year task at least to get all the tools & integration
<Burgundavia> lets figure out what needs to be done and break it out into little tasks
<ajmitch> seems like you've got a few good notes from boston
<Burgundavia> Novell is about to do a bunch in GNOME
<ajmitch> even simple things like preconfiguration of clients on install
<Burgundavia> I think the process can be made massively parallel
<Burgundavia> I disagree about the 2-3 year timeframe
<ajmitch> I think 2-3 years can be optimistic for the details
<ajmitch> the bulk of the work can be done in less
<ajmitch> but it's only when you're using everything together & run into the corner cases that you get the details down
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> we can't afford to take 2-3 years todo this stuff
<Burgundavia> admin stuff is murdering us in the enterprise space
<Burgundavia> now, of course, admin stuff is killing jsut about everybody
<ajmitch> we're missing stuff that even NT4 could do well
<Burgundavia> that is the sad part
<Burgundavia> I don't see anybody really building a community around their admin stuff
<ajmitch> isn't that what Ubuntu is meant to be about? :)
<ajmitch> community & all that?
<Burgundavia> yep
<ajmitch> Ubuntu is conspicuous that there just aren't the upstream developers employed by canonical
<ajmitch> unlike novell or RH
<Burgundavia> dave camp was giving jdub crap about that in Boston
<ajmitch> so I heard
<ajmitch> hello daniel
<dholbach> hi Andrew
<dholbach> just popped in to change my password, as some idiot used my nick in #ubuntu yesterday
<ajmitch> yes, I saw that, I was worried about it..
<dholbach> and gnomefreak banned my hostmask and all :-)
<dholbach> about my sanity? ;)
<ajmitch> I was hoping that it was actually you now :)
<dholbach> hehe
<ajmitch> no, that your box wasn't compromised
<dholbach> at 1 utc all my boxes were turned off
<ajmitch> ok :)
<Burgundavia> ok, firefox has a nasty memory leak with gmail
<Burgundavia> epiphany was using 300 of resident memory
<Burgundavia> MB, that is
<Burgundavia> well, my inbox is clean and my UWN queue is full
<Burgundavia> time for me to sleep
<ajmitch> night Burgundavia
<dholbach> OK fellas see you around!
* dholbach takes the dog for a walk
<ajmitch> you away for the weekend?
<ajmitch> ok :)
<dholbach> byeeeeeeeee :-)
<ajmitch> bye dholbach
<siretart> morning
<siretart> ah, sbuild + lvm snapshot rocks. :)
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<ajmitch> do you know if the xen support is there yet?
<ajmitch> yay, f-spot built on powerpc (debian)
<ajmitch> soon I can stop getting the bugs about it being broken in testing
<siretart> ajmitch: I don't think so.
<siretart> ajmitch: In fact, I'm not that impressed by xen anymore. compared to the work you need to setup lvm+schroot+sbuild, xen setup seems to me not appropriate
<siretart> ajmitch: but I'm comparing pines with apples, I know
<siretart> ajmitch: but seriously. how should a build environment work with xen? sbuild/pbuilder mounting the volume, preparing boot scripts which build the package and shutdown the machine again?
<ajmitch> starting a xen snapshot vm, then clearing it
<siretart> ajmitch: I could imagine setting up wanna-build in dom0 and buildd in the domUs
<ajmitch> I'm not sure how the build source gets copied in - probably with some native host fs
<ajmitch> iwj has some scripts for using xen with autopkgtest
<ajmitch> with a chroot, you can bind mount, but a xen domain is fully self-contained
<siretart> that scripts could be useful, indeed
<siretart> but honestly, for me, I'm pretty sold with sbuild+schroot
<siretart> it would be great if I could somehow make it work with i386 chroots on amd64
<ajmitch> I'd be happy getting sbuild+schroot setup
<ajmitch> except I have no spare LVM space at the moment :)
<siretart> thats easy :)
<ajmitch> unless I put it on loopback
<siretart> you can also use tarballs
<siretart> then you'll have something similar to pbuilder
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> and what's the point of that?
<ajmitch> why would I choose sbuild over pbuilder?
<ajmitch> since I have pbuilder working now :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: until it breaks
* ajmitch ignores Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee smashes ajmitch with a saucepan
<ajmitch> she's so friendly
<Hobbsee> indeed :)
<siretart> ok, I'm off to my parents, see you later this afternoon
<ajmitch> bye siretart, have a good day
<tepsipakki> ajmitch: libpam-krb5 got accepted ;)
<tepsipakki> 2.4-1 that is
<ajmitch> yep
<babo> Hi guys
<kristog> hello
<zakame> hi all
<ajmitch> hi
* ajmitch finishes patching zodb
<zakame> yo ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<zakame> here I am, just figured out how to get irc access via a socks-acting ssh proxy
<ajmitch> yay :)
<ajmitch> at work?
<zakame> release is on the 26th, right? :)
<zakame> no, at the mall
<ajmitch> yep, on the 26th sometime
<zakame> hmm should start planning for the release-party then :)
<zakame> heh I should haveplanned for that earlier
<ajmitch> night all
<phanatic> night ajmitch
<siretart> hm. I hope sistpoty does find me...
<lfittl> hmm, do I need permisson to upload bug fixes to universe now because of RC freeze? And if yes, who should I talk to?
<Hobbsee> lfittl: yes and no - ajmitch, etc, will ask you when they see the upload, usually.  if it's got a bug number in the changelog, it's good
<lfittl> Hobbsee: ok, thanks
<siretart> Revu is going down for maintenance now
<steveire> hey. Do new packages ever get added to universe or is it just for updating packages?
<steveire> I'm thinking edgy here.
<tseng> new packages arent particuarly likely to be added at this point
<tseng> in a few weeks they could be added to edgy+1
<beligum> revu site down?
<steveire> I thought that's what universe was for. Is universe just for updates?
<steveire> And not new packages?
<tseng> edgy (including universe) is frozen
<tseng> it is for packages that are not given the same level of support as main
<tseng> after a certain point we stop adding things
<tseng> focus on fixing bugs
<steveire> ok, cheers. Is there any way the latest version of k3dsurf would get into universe?
<tseng> not in edgy
<tseng> release is in 2 weeks
<lophyte> !seen superm1
<ubotu> I last saw superm1 (n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1) 20h 59m 18s ago, quiting: Remote closed the connection
<bddebian> Heya gang
<lophyte> hey :)
<bddebian> Hello lophyte
<Adri2000> beligum: siretart said it was going down for maintenance
<beligum> ic, thx
<lfittl> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi lfittl
<beligum> Is it normal that the packages-database reading takes ages when apt-getting something?
<siretart> status update: sistpoty and me are currently upgrading revu's postgresql from version 7.4 to 8.1
<Q-FUNK> oho
<siretart> things looking good so far
<siretart> please don't use revu yet, we want to reboot the machine for kernel upgrade in about 1h
<Dominus_Suus> is this where I come to report a problem with a supported package?
<superm1> Dominus_Suus, you should file a bug on launchpad
<superm1> or at least search and see if one is filed yet.  if not, then you should file one :)
<Dominus_Suus> well the bug has been fixed upstream
<superm1> is it a new version? or just a patch to a current version
<Dominus_Suus> I'll be more specific - poppler has a problem in its pdftohtml program that produces a blank output.  This problem has been fixed in version 0.5.4 but Dapper still uses the buggy 0.5.1
<superm1> Well in order to get in then, a UVFe bug will have to be filed
<superm1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/UVF
<Dominus_Suus> thanks
<superm1> follow the procedure ther
<superm1> if you have any questions about the procedure, we'd be glad to help you through it
<Dominus_Suus> thanks, superm1, that's great
<siretart> ok. tiber's dead. didn't survive the kernel reboot.
<giskard> LALALA :)
<giskard> bddebian, ajmitch  :)
<Q-FUNK> What was the item I needed to attend the CC meeting for, again?
<Q-FUNK> Approval to some team, I think, but I forgot which one.
<giskard> Q-FUNK, no, you have to put yourself in the next CC agenda
<giskard> and you have to find someone who can speak for you
<giskard> someone == UbuntuMember
<Toadstool> siretart: tiber still down?
<siretart> Toadstool: I need to contact an admin. We tried to boot a new kernel, but the machine didn't come up
<Toadstool> uhuh
<siretart> Toadstool: yeah :/
<siretart> if someone knows how to contact hno73, please tell me
<ajmitch> morning
<Dominus_Suus> superm1, are you still there?
<superm1> yea
<superm1> whats up?
<Dominus_Suus> the poppler bug that I was talking about has already been filed: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/poppler/+bug/41758.  I added a comment mentioning the updated package.  Should I post a message to the mailing list asking someone to take up the project?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41758 in poppler "pdftohtml in popper-utils 0.5.1-0ubuntu6 doesn't work at all." [Medium,Confirmed] 
<Dominus_Suus> it should be a fairly simple process, and it looks like they're already adding the updated package to Edgy...
<superm1> give me a moment to pull up the bug.  my machine is crawling as i'm compiling something, running something in VMWare and doing some other stuff. :)
<Dominus_Suus> flipping hackers - all the processing power in the world and no clue what to do with it :-P
<superm1> Well if this newer version is already in edgy, have you tested the edgy version?
<superm1> i would say the best bet is to file a backport request on LP to get it pulled back into dapper
<superm1> and for now locally, you can grab edgy sources
<superm1> and build then in dapper using prevu or a dapper pbuilder locally
<Dominus_Suus> not as such - I downloaded the 0.5.4 package directly onto my machine and it works
<Dominus_Suus> *from the poppler website
<superm1> ah
<Dominus_Suus> where do they keep the .deb files - do I have to load the repository?
<superm1> Well, i'll do this.  i'll grab the sources for the edgy version and run it through a dapper pbuilder
<superm1> if it comes out okay, then I can file a backport request for you ok?
<superm1> and i can post up the debs for you to use somewhere in the meanwhil
<Dominus_Suus> that would be great, thank you!  In general, where would I file a backport request?
<superm1> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=153402
<superm1> That post should describe the backports project and how it works
<Dominus_Suus> super, thank you again!
<superm1> Dominus_Suus,  are you by chance on amd64? I just realized I am locally building amd64 :)
<superm1> Dominus_Suus, bug 66168 if you would like to follow progress.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66168 in dapper-backports "Update poppler to resolve pdf2html problem" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66168
<Dominus_Suus> oohh, thanks - no, I'm on a 586
<superm1> Ok. well it'll be  a little bit then for me to build for x86 too.
<Dominus_Suus> sorry, I'm still learning how to use make and it'll be a while before I get around to learning .deb packaging
<superm1> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html is a good start to learn about packaging
<shawarma> Does anyone know why user-mode-linux is not in edgy?
<Dominus_Suus> hehe, thanks superm1... I'm still trying to get to the bottom of my Safari reading list... it'll probably take years :-D
<superm1> Dominus_Suus, do you want me to CTCP to you or how?
<Dominus_Suus> superm - CTCP is fine... if there's a link on the packages/archives/repositories page I can take that too
<superm1> well my repository is a mess right now, i'm not gonna put it up there right now. i'll ctcp then
<Dominus_Suus> thank you so much for your help
<superm1> Not a propblem
<pirast> anyone here who wants to apply two debdiffs to edgy?
<superm1> Dominus_Suus, are you seeing my offer for sending the file?
<Dominus_Suus> I'm in Gaim and I just accepted it
<superm1> timed out....
<Dominus_Suus> reattempt?
<superm1> are you on anyhting else right now too, aim, msn ,yahoo?
<superm1> i can send on there
<Dominus_Suus> I'm on MSN
<Dominus_Suus> I can switch into XIRC
<superm1> well however you want to do.  i have an old msn account i can jump on in gaim
<Dominus_Suus> hislordship@canada.com
<Dominus_Suus> that was really quick :-P
<superm1> well hopefully this goes thru :)
<Dominus_Suus> oh, what's the problem now...
<superm1> okay hmm..... that an email address?
<superm1> i'll email it
<Dominus_Suus> yep
<superm1> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2006-10-15
<Dominus_Suus> that reminds me that I have to get a proper e-mail address for all of my Ubuntu/GNU/FSF dealings
<superm1> well if you are looking for an @ubuntu.com address, look into the process for applying as an ubuntu member
<superm1> the entire thing is described on the wiki
<Dominus_Suus> don't I need a resume the length of your arm to get a membership?
<Dominus_Suus> alternatively, I guess I could use my sourceforge address or create a g-mail one...
<superm1> well you have to contribute to the community.
<Dominus_Suus> it's just that all of my spam gets sent to my canada.com address
<superm1> the wiki page lists lots of ideas how you can
<superm1> You should have an email with the attachment
<Dominus_Suus> how big was the file again? some 200-some-odd-K?
<superm1> i made a tar.gz with the entire package
<superm1> 2.9 megs
<Dominus_Suus> nm, I have it now... thank you!
<Dominus_Suus> I'm thinking of dusting off my tablet and making some icon themes...
<superm1> well then getting into the art team can be a great way to membership
<Dominus_Suus> well I can't thank you enough again
<superm1> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember?highlight=%28member%29
<superm1> not a problem.  glad to help
<pirast> could anyone have a look and apply the debdiff in bug 65617?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65617 in dvdrip "menu item??" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65617
<Q-FUNK> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=391613
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 391613 in tsclient "tsclient: ignores selected keyboard map and resets to US map over XDMCP" [Important,Open] 
<Q-FUNK> *sigh* odes not pass the -xkbmap to xnest as it should
<Q-FUNK> affects ubuntu too
<pirast> what does < 2:0.94 in build dependencies mean? that the version has to be bigger or smaller?
<plugwash> it means the version has to be smaller than
<imbrandon> !ping
<ubotu> ping: connection timeout
<imbrandon> whom else is doing upload exceptions for main besides tfheen ?
<gnomefreak> anyone notice eclipse doesnt build?
<gnomefreak> libjsch-java is not right version
<gnomefreak> and i cant find the depends for eclipse in apt-cache show
<gnomefreak> its not showing that package at all
* imbrandon yawns
* imbrandon would like someone from te release team to be awake right now
<imbrandon> s/te/the
* imbrandon pokes Hobbsee for no good reason other than he's bored
* Hobbsee drops a large cow on imbrandon for the same reason
<imbrandon> lol
* StevenK expands that out to "* Hobbsee drops a large cow on imbrandon for no good reason other than he's bored"
<Hobbsee> hah
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK 
<StevenK> Ouch!
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> heya StevenK
* StevenK waves
* StevenK idly wonders if kdebase-dbg could be any larger.
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> how big is it , i havent looked in a while
* imbrandon idly wonders what GR means in p.d.o context
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you mean you're touching kde stuff again?
<Hobbsee> are you sick?
<Hobbsee> s/sick/ill/
<minghua> imbrandon: you really don't know?  GR in any debian context should mean General Resolution
<imbrandon> minghua, no i really dident know, i have been disilussioned by debian , i came to ubuntu from many years of SuSE use/devel so i know very little of "pure debian" and from what i've seen on the public face of it i dont care to know alot
<imbrandon> thus i do my stuff and go about my day for the most part ;)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, isnt there a mono specific packaging policy doc somewhere kinda like the python one ?
<micahcowan> dh_make creates a dirs file in debian/... is this necessary/useful? What purpose does dh_installdirs actually serve, since the actual installation will ensure that the appropriate structure is set up, regardless?
<imbrandon> ( mono apps not the compilers/runtime )
<StevenK> micahcowan: The appropriate structure may not be set up.
<StevenK> micahcowan: The build may also want to create other directories not mkdir'd by the build system.
<imbrandon> micahcowan, thats just a general guide , rarely is it correct for every/any app
<micahcowan> Ah: so it's really only useful for specifying that directories be built that aren't actually part of the build? But if all I care about are dirs that actually get things installed to them, I shouldn't need a dirs file, correct?
<pirast> night
<micahcowan> do I have that right?
<StevenK> micahcowan: Sure. You don't need a dirs file, or to even call dh_installdirs, it's only there if you need it.
<micahcowan> Am I right in believing that an awk of some sort is part of essentials or build-essentials? My pbuilder environment has it installed... basically I'm wondering if it's necessary to put "awk" in the Depends of an awk-script package.
<micahcowan> Hm... it doesn't seem to be /directly/...
<imbrandon> i wouldent count on anything being installed, if your package needs awk , dep on it
<micahcowan> Okay. I note that sed is an essential, though :)  ...but, yeah, I'm guessing it might be possible to have a system without awk, then. Anyway, can't hurt to specify it explicitly...
<micahcowan> Er, huh. lintian gives a "needlessly-depends-on-awk depends" error. Guess I'd better leave it out after all...
<minghua> you don't need to depend on awk, unless you need specifically mawk or gawk
<minghua> awk is a virtual package, and base-files (which is essential) depends on it
<minghua> so it's very unlikely that you have a system without awk
<micahcowan> Yeah: and lintian gets upset if I depend on it, so I'll leave it off (I specifically wrote for POSIX awk, so no need for explicit mawk/gawk dependencies)
<micahcowan> If I'm an ubuntero, does REVU already have my key, or is that a separate keyring?
<imbrandon> gnight folks
<LaserJock> imbrandon: you awake?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, barely
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> wasup?
<LaserJock> you us Gnome at all?
<imbrandon> a tad here and there, not alot
<imbrandon> i dont have a gnome install at the moment though
<imbrandon> why ?
<LaserJock> I'm running some KDE apps in Gnome but some of the apps don't show up right in the notification area
<imbrandon> ahh yea , that is a issue i've run into before
<LaserJock> kwallet is now sitting on top of the Ubuntu icon on the menu bar
<imbrandon> i dont quite know how to fix it tbh
<imbrandon> the gnome and kde systrays are differnt api's afaik but similar enough to "kinda" work
<imbrandon> or something like that
<imbrandon> funny enough though gnome apps run in kde systray fine, so i really dont know the cause tbh
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<LaserJock> I just wondered
<imbrandon> yea its not just you or your install
<imbrandon> if thats what you mean
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i just dont know how to fix it, and its not a ubuntu/kubuntu issue, i ran into it back in the suse days too
<imbrandon> its a kde/gnome thing
<LaserJock> well, I remember it happening waaaay back in the Gentoo days when I used to run all kinds of crazy stuff
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> but there are a few KDE apps I really like
<imbrandon> can you add a kdesystray to a gnome pannel ? i dont rember
<LaserJock> so it's kinda weird having icons in odd places
<imbrandon> that might "fix" it
<LaserJock> I don't see one
<imbrandon> hrm
<LaserJock> darn, new openoffice
<imbrandon> the only other thing i could think of is add a kicker pannel on the right or left of your screen with only a systray applet and reduced in size to like 5% and auto hide it, but thats an ugly hack
<minghua> and I suspect some icons can appear on both panels' notification area
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> right now, kopete and konversation are sitting in the gnome-panel just fine
<LaserJock> and there is a blank space were kwallet should be
<LaserJock> but the icon is all the way to the left
<whiprush> LaserJock: !!!!!!
<imbrandon> its probaby a bug in the way ( or use of an undocumented api *gasp* ) by kwallet then
<whiprush> LaserJock: you coming to mountain view?
<minghua> If I were LaserJock, I probably would just run a separate KDE session in Xnest
<LaserJock> whiprush: but of course
<whiprush> LaserJock: got stuff to do?
<imbrandon> whiprush, yea you have to put up with me too ;)
<LaserJock> whiprush: btw, just a little upset about Mozilla
<whiprush> LaserJock: join the club
<whiprush> imbrandon: you coming too?
<imbrandon> yup
<whiprush> sweet
<whiprush> you both bored?
<imbrandon> heh
<whiprush> during the show?
<whiprush> We need help during the ldap show.
<LaserJock> minghua: just for kopete and maybe a couple other apps? ;-)
<imbrandon> whiprush, i can probably lend a hand, dunno how but i can try ;)
<whiprush> imbrandon: LaserJock: so ... I am bringing a buddy, myself, wasabi, and probably matt oquist and infinity will care about doing ldap stuff
<whiprush> the problem is
<whiprush> we need people who know how to spec
<whiprush> and write
<whiprush> and generally be sane
<minghua> LaserJock: well, if you have enough hardware power, why not?
<whiprush> so I am looking for people who can help
<LaserJock> whiprush: excellent, LDAP was a bit of an issue for LTSP in Paris
<imbrandon> whiprush, sure, i love specing stuff ( just not when i'm soo sleepy )
<whiprush> LaserJock: bonus, the ltsp guy is my lug president.
<minghua> I don't know if you can copy & paste between Xnest windows though
<whiprush> excellent.
<LaserJock> well, I can't come over to the summit until Tuesday
<whiprush> I will come find you guys if we need help then
<LaserJock> I have a department seminar to give
<whiprush> LaserJock: oh snap.
<whiprush> I brainstormed what we need today with some friends.
<imbrandon> i'll be there like 10am on the 4th ( crazy plane schedule )
<whiprush> I have it broken down into 2 parts.
<whiprush> the first piece is "catch up to other distros with AD integration"
<whiprush> pretty sure that can be done in a day or so
<whiprush> the second part
<whiprush> is "Active Directory Killer"
<whiprush> that will take 5 years.
<imbrandon> s/day/week/
<whiprush> so a day or two won't matter. :p
<imbrandon> but yea i'm right with ya
<imbrandon> nis needs some love too but thats another story all togather
<whiprush> hey has anyone started any specs yet?
<whiprush> imbrandon: NIS is dead.
<whiprush> skipping it
<imbrandon> whiprush, i know ;(
<imbrandon> heh
<whiprush> ubuntu needs a developer fund
<LaserJock> for Edubuntu we are waiting until after the Edgy release to do much specing
<whiprush> would love to have ajmitch to come
<imbrandon> whiprush, nah i've been going through all  the old specs for edgy that got defered that i care about
<whiprush> but there's no money theyre
<whiprush> imbrandon: if you spent all your time going over specs that didn't get implemented you'd be out of time.
<imbrandon> last i heard ajmitch was gonna try to swindle some way to make it /possible/
<whiprush> been that way since warty
<imbrandon> possibly*
<whiprush> imbrandon: too expensive. can't make it. :-/
<LaserJock> RichEd is starting a "Education" forum and we are going to get a "Top 10" list from the educational community and try to spec from that
<LaserJock> well, I actually need to maybe poke mdz about my Edgy spec
<imbrandon> whiprush, yea i mean the "ones i cared about" heh ( mostly CommonCustomizations )
<LaserJock> it's implemented but not approved :-)
<whiprush> heh
<LaserJock> it was approved, but then got bumped back down at the distro sprint
<LaserJock> but I was able to pull it off before Feature Freeze anyway
<LaserJock> but nobody reapproved it :/
<imbrandon> heh
<whiprush> it happens
<whiprush> personally, I'd love to see a cycle of no new specs, and just clean out the wiki
<LaserJock> whiprush: I'd move to epiphany if it wasn't for one annoying thing
* imbrandon has moved to konqueror
<whiprush> LaserJock: tabs?
<whiprush> god i hate those tabs
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> oh, they are a minor problem
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I don't like the location bar and how you can't do URL editing
<imbrandon> you cant edit the url ?
<whiprush> imo it's easier to fix epi (or konqueror) than convince people who ship windows software to fix their software for us.
<imbrandon> whiprush, +1
<LaserJock> like in FF (and pretty much any other browser) the auto-completion of URLs you can edit the URL
<LaserJock> in epiphany if you hit enter it takes you straight to that site
<LaserJock> so I end up going to a site and *then* editing the URL
<LaserJock> which is really annoying
<whiprush> unfortunately the epi bar has been broken for months in edgy
<imbrandon> what about hitting tab
<whiprush> there was this bad bug
<whiprush> typically the epi addressbar can be just as flexible as the ff search bar
<whiprush> but all built in
<whiprush> CTRL-L, search term, up arrow, enter
<whiprush> for the win
<LaserJock> well, but I just want to start typing a URL, and then edit it
<LaserJock> I can't figure out how to do that in epi
<imbrandon> LaserJock, konqi FTW ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah, it's not  bad for sure
<whiprush> LaserJock: show me IRL when we meet next, I can't visualize what you mean
<imbrandon> LaserJock, have you tried 3.5.5 konqui ? its TONS faster , and i honestly have no idea why
<LaserJock> but I DE mixed up as it is
<imbrandon> LaserJock, after a few days in mtv i'll have you a true kde convert ;)
<LaserJock> whiprush: ok, so what happens when you start typing a URL, you get a list of previous URLs you've got to that are the same, right?
<whiprush> right
<LaserJock> but then what if you want to edit one of those URLs?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i have never used epi but what happens if you start typing and hit tab then edit
<whiprush> ah i see
<whiprush> I have to hit down arrow to complete
<whiprush> no middle ground
<whiprush> tab moves to the next field
<imbrandon> thats how i do it in koqi ( although enter works the same )
<imbrandon> ahh not cool
<LaserJock> right, all other browsers I know of, you can go to one of the previous URLs and hit enter or right arrow
<imbrandon> yea that would bug me too
<LaserJock> and that puts the URL in the location bar without actually going to the site
<imbrandon> right
<whiprush> LaserJock: one of my hopes is that epi will become more popular and get more fixed
<LaserJock> heh, and Corey just told me I wasn't using my browser right :-p
<whiprush> slap him
<whiprush> it's ironic.
<whiprush> it was like, over a year ago when jdub sent a mail to the epi list and was like "dudes, make it rock, people are sick of FF."
<whiprush> and no one listened.
<LaserJock> that was the deal breaker for me
<LaserJock> I could handle the nasty tabs
<whiprush> yeah the tabs do suck
<imbrandon> LaserJock, heh thats like billy saying we dident need tabs ( untill ie7 of course )
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> but the URL thing is totally not cool when you navigate LP via URLs
<imbrandon> ( e.g. not useing the browser right )
<imbrandon> yea i navigate via urls alot, specialy on my domain becouse i have alot of unlinked directorys i use
<whiprush> LaserJock: I believe mpt has the ear of the epi guys, might be a good suggestion at mountain view
<imbrandon> so are we going the fds way or the suse way for ad ?
* imbrandon votes the fds way , even with its quarks 
<whiprush> doesn't work that way] 
<whiprush> the suse way is the samba way
<whiprush> we get that for free
<imbrandon> right
<whiprush> doing our own non-windows way means FDS.
<whiprush> or another ldap server
<whiprush> imo, FDS is the natural choice
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> suse's is pure samba ?
<whiprush> imo we can build something that does what AD does on FDS and other unix stuff
<whiprush> for the AD client stuff
<whiprush> yeah
<whiprush> but they're not trying to replicate AD.
<whiprush> you have to buy edirectory if you want that
<whiprush> their "join an AD" client stuff is all in samba, and free
<imbrandon> ahh ok i see
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta go, just wanted to drop by and pick imbrandon's brain about KDE apps in Gnome
<LaserJock> I soooo wish it didn't matter
<whiprush> if you want to do a huge server thing where you want to manage linux clients and servers, you have to pay for that
<LaserJock> me and DEs have a definite love-hate relationship
<imbrandon> LaserJock, it really shouldent , i'm thinking its a buig in kwallet
<imbrandon> bug*
<imbrandon> whiprush, ahh i see , ok yea i'm rembering now
<LaserJock> maybe I'll have to start every KDE app I have and file bug reports ;-)
<whiprush> imbrandon: me and wasabi want to do a big demo where we install an AD and some clients
<whiprush> and show people what the competition is like
<whiprush> deploy software, etc.
<imbrandon> whiprush, yea that would be awesom
<imbrandon> a "where we stand" kinda thing
<whiprush> yeah
<whiprush> except that might kind of suck
<whiprush> since we're like, a decade behind.
<whiprush> but hey, let's roll with it.
<imbrandon> yea , but it will hilight where we need to go more ina  real world sense i think
<imbrandon> at leaste to those watching
<LaserJock> sometimes "crap, we're a decade behind" gets people motivated ;-)
<whiprush> imbrandon: I already have where we can rule already highlighted.
<whiprush> :)
<imbrandon> ;)
<whiprush> there are some areas where's we
<imbrandon> LaserJock, yea heh
<whiprush> re ahead actually.
<imbrandon> alot of the auth side we are i think
<imbrandon> but .... well hell to be honest i havent tried it in a real world situation for a few 4 years
<imbrandon> sooo
<imbrandon> i'm a decade behind too but it is something that needs to rock for enterprise ( and even small business )
<imbrandon> small business dosent have the bankroll to have an IT department , they need something they can manage with a "part time guy"
<imbrandon> if you know what i mean
<imbrandon> ( small business == ~30 to ~50 wkstations )
<imbrandon> well 5 to 50 heh
<imbrandon> but you get the idea
<whiprush> imbrandon: I've got a plan
<whiprush> it sucks
<whiprush> but it's a plan
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> a plan is better than no plan, at leaste its something to build from
<ajmitch> imbrandon: about your question earlier, yes there's a CLI policy to follow :)
<jldugger> I'm interested in pulling a newer version of a package that's in debian into edgy, not nessecarily for inclusion in edgy, but at least for my own purposes
<jldugger> is it usally pretty simple to just download the files from debian and rebuild the package?
<minghua> jldugger: if said package doesn't have Ubuntu specific changes (i.e., the version number ends with -X, not -XubuntuY), then that usually works
<imbrandon> jldugger, yea its pretty simple if you just want it for your self
<jldugger> hmm
<jldugger> this is probably not one of those simple cases
<jldugger> wacom-tools ;)
<imbrandon> whats the package ?
<AnAnt> is the results of motu-meeting anywhere on the web ?
<imbrandon> jldugger, ping
<jldugger> pong
<imbrandon> hey it seemed to build fine but i've never used this packages in my life so take this with a grain of salt, but its built in a clean pbuilder, grab the debs from herer to test them and let me know
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/wacom-test
<jldugger> see, i was having problems with the kernel module
<jldugger> something bout linux headers and such
<imbrandon> yea thats why its good to build it in a pbuilder ;)
<imbrandon> i already had a build env all setup
<jldugger> well, apt-get build-dep usually takes care of the trivialities
<jldugger> so which ones do i want here?
<imbrandon> yea mostly but then it builds it against /your/ system, pbuilder makes it distributable ;)
<imbrandon> the two debs
<imbrandon> the other is the source, no need unless you want it
<jldugger> ah
<jldugger> it seems like there should be more than just one
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/wacom-test/wacom-kernel-source_0.7.4.1-5_all.deb
<imbrandon> and
<imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/wacom-test/wacom-tools_0.7.4.1-5_i386.deb
<imbrandon> is all you should need
<imbrandon> edgy right ?
<jldugger> yea
<imbrandon> k yea
<imbrandon> just grab those two, and dpkg -i *.deb
<jldugger> building the apt-get source stuff puts out like four .debs
<jldugger> xserver input
<imbrandon> not from debian
<imbrandon> ahh see they might not work then
<imbrandon> i just grabed the debian souce, see the thing is they were both packages diffrently
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> e.g. ubuntu packaged it /then/ debian packaged it diffrent and thats NOT a merge
<imbrandon> thats a streight debian compile soooooo
<jldugger> heh
<jldugger> doh
<imbrandon> in that case better not
<imbrandon> and i'll do a proper merge for ya tomarrow
<imbrandon> if you can wait
* imbrandon is sleepy
<jldugger> of course
<jldugger> i should get to bed myself, but i just got in a new toy
<imbrandon> heh
<jldugger> a tiny remote control helicopter
<imbrandon> ahh cool
<jldugger> so one quick question: /usr/src/linux should be symlinked to...?
<imbrandon>  /usr/src/linux-`uname -r`
<imbrandon> eg apt-get install linux-headers-{generic,386}
<imbrandon> and it will symlink it and all for you
<jldugger> it didnt
<jldugger> ive got two header packages and no symlink
<imbrandon> link it you the one that matches your running kernel ( but make sure you installed linux-headers-* not kernel-headers-* )
<imbrandon> dunno why there is both , its a mess but thats the cookie for now ;(
<Hobbsee> yay.  i now have two new bugs, as of yesterday morning.
<jldugger> so linux-headers-`uname -r`, not linux-source
<imbrandon> no linux-headers-generic OR linux-headers-386 depending on your kernel not uname -r , you want the meta packge so it updates
<jldugger> so what the hell is the ones without generic or 386?
<imbrandon> are you running the -generic kernel ?
<imbrandon> they will get pulled in by the meta package
<jldugger> yes
<imbrandon> ok then install linux-headers-generic and it will pull the correct one in, then next time the kernel updates it will update the headers too
<imbrandon> eg from the meta package
<imbrandon> okies i'm off, gnight all
<jldugger> nite
<minghua> ajmitch: if a package with unmet dependency can be fixed by a simple rebuild, should I upload -Xbuild1, or there is some simpler way?
<ajmitch> minghua: no, that's the only way to replace a package in the archive
<minghua> (no ubuntu specific change by the way)
<minghua> ajmitch: and I should just upload, then ping you to let you know?  or some other way is preferred to request motu-uvf's approval?
<ajmitch> yes, just upload & ping
<ajmitch> what's the package?
<minghua> scim-uim, bug #65478
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65478 in scim-uim "[UNMETDEPS]  scim-uim has unmet dependencies" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65478
<minghua> I tested in Debian, but not in Ubuntu.  I'll build in an edgy pbuilder before I upload
<ajmitch> thanks
<Q-FUNK> is there any way to put a warning to someone about to file a bug on a package to make sure that they are filing against the right package?
<Q-FUNK> I keep on getting bug reports on upgrade-system that are really meant for update-manager
<ajmitch> not that I know of
<Q-FUNK> and others yet who seem to mistake upgrade-system for a virtual package that means "anything that failed in installation or upgrade".
<Q-FUNK> :(
<Q-FUNK> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=391613
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 391613 in tsclient "tsclient: ignores selected keyboard map and resets to US map over XDMCP" [Important,Open] 
<Q-FUNK> anyone who could help me with this one?
<minghua> Q-FUNK: Choose a better package name next time :-)
<Q-FUNK> it probably is really simple to fix, except that I don't code in C.
<Q-FUNK> minghua: I never had that problem in Debian. :)
<Q-FUNK> I actually pinpointed the source of that tsclient bug. I just don't code in C, so I'm at loss on how to patch this.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: yeah, I hate LP for uninformed bugs too
* minghua hates to ask the dapper or edgy and package version questions every time
<Q-FUNK> minghua: of course, it's a catch-22:  reportbug requires knowing exactly which package is faulty.  the user might not know.  meanwhile, LP allows too many wild guesses, but lets the user try.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: yes.  my conclusion is that Debian BTS is more designed to reduce the maintainer's work, while LP is designed to make it easy for users to report bug
<minghua> the former needs some nice people in the user list/forum who can help the less clued users to diagnose the problem and report bugs accordingly;
<minghua> while the latter needs a strong bug triage team
<Q-FUNK> that's the scary part.  strong triage only happens with active maintainers or otherwise with packages in main.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: I think I have some idea about your debian bug 391613
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 391613 in tsclient "tsclient: ignores selected keyboard map and resets to US map over XDMCP" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/391613
<minghua> Q-FUNK: are you willing to test my untested (i.e., not even sure if it compiles) patch?
<Q-FUNK> sure
* Q-FUNK boots the x86 buildd
<jldugger> minghua, ideally, problems in universe are reported to upstream authors
<Q-FUNK> jldugger: I mailed him last night, but my hopes are not too high on him fixing it.  he reports on his homepage that tsclient essentially does what he wants aleady so that's it.
<jldugger> indeed, upstream authors aren't always enthusiastic about bug reports
<jldugger> we should blame esr
<minghua> jldugger: by upstream, you mean software author?
<jldugger> for writing those cathedral vs bazaar where he suggested that open source was fantastic because users submit patches to fix bugs ;)
<jldugger> minghua, sure.
<Q-FUNK> LOL
<jldugger> but i dont think many packages in universe have a bugtracker, let alone pay attention to one
<minghua> jldugger: you are probably right
<minghua> but there are always good upstream and bad upstream (attitude to bug reports wise)
<StevenK> Great. Look like an unmetdeps bug can be killed by punting it from the archive.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: try this one first: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/26851/
<minghua> Q-FUNK: as you can see, the keymap is hardcoded, we'll worry about that later
<minghua> Q-FUNK: that's in src/ dir by the way
<Q-FUNK> yup
<Q-FUNK> that much I noticed while briefly parsing the tree yesterday
<minghua> Q-FUNK: oh, so you really meant "you don't do Xlib coding"
* minghua neither :-P
<Q-FUNK> I grep'ed the source tree fo occurances of 'nest'
<Q-FUNK> it gave me a vague idea of where things happen, but not much else
<Q-FUNK> comparing the man pages for rdesktop and Xnest, I notice that they use vastly different options to set things like keyboard map, bit depth and resolution.
<Q-FUNK> I'm guessing that tsclient only took rdesktop options into considerations, since it started as a gtk front-end to rdesktop.
<Q-FUNK> Xnest support was added as an after-thought
<Q-FUNK> right.  commandline options are set in support.c
<zakame> hi all
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<zakame> hi ajmitch
<zakame> tiber went down for maint right?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> didn't come back up properly
<zakame> dapper upgrade I gather?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> kernel issue, I heard
* StevenK ponders uploading libgalago-gtk.
* ajmitch checks out the whole pkg-zope tree from alioth
<ajmitch> might as well make the ubuntu fixes directly on the debian packages
* zakame looks for a 3g phone that can work as a modem in ubuntu
* lupine_85 pats his Nokia 6680 that can
<elmargol> Hi I search a way to build a dependency try for a debian package
<lupine_85> elmargol: apt-get build-dep <package> ?
<lupine_85> oh, a tree...
<lupine_85> sorry
<lupine_85> sure, just parse the control files
<lifeless> elmargol: apt-cache rdepends
<elmargol> lifeless: thx
<gnomefreak> out side of a pbuilder can i just use apt-get source eclipse and start building it as normal from there. just like i would any other package?
<geser> yes
<geser> I've setup a chroot for it to not pollute my desktop with dev packages
* StevenK wishes evince could split the PDF into 2 views.
<sivang> hey motus
<Fujitsu> Heya sivang.
<sivang> yo Fujitsu
<gnomefreak> 2.10 is > 2.4?
<tseng> yes
<gnomefreak> something isnt right here than
<LjL> hello. I have issues with the scope of the Multiverse repository. I've noticed that Multiverse contains packages such as vmware-player, which can only be provided as binary objects and are under restrictive licenses. On the other hand, Multiverse also contains many packages such as emulators, which are often licensed under OSI approved licenses. I assume that the rationale for putting them in Multiverse is that they are usually employed
<LjL> together with proprietary firmware; however, nobody's stopping the user from providing their own, possibly OSI licensed, alternative firmware. Thus I can suppose that the rationale for putting these packages in Multiverse is that such alternative, OSI licenced firmware is not yet available to be provided by you in an Ubuntu repository; however, packages such as UAE (an Amiga emulator) already do provide a free, albeit very limited, firmware
<LjL> implementation.
<LjL> I'd like a clarification on these issues.
<Q-FUNK> =|
<LjL> (hey, long messages are not a crime)
<ctrlsoft> LjL: Are there any actual free instances for those emulators out there?
<ctrlsoft> LjL: I know that's a criteria Debian keeps
<LjL> ctrlsoft: what do you mean with "free instances"? free firmware?
<ctrlsoft> LjL: yeah
<LjL> well, at least in the case of UAE, as i said i believe so
<Q-FUNK> beleive is not good enough.
<ctrlsoft> LjL: And packaged
<Q-FUNK> either there ARE free alternatives or there are none.
<LjL> certainly, the firmware it ships with is only limited to running some demos, mostly
<ctrlsoft> LjL: which emulators in particular are you referring to?
<LjL> ctrlsoft: let's just make the case with UAE for now, since it's the one i know best (i could probably talk about basilisk2 as well, but i'd have to further inform myself)
<LjL> UAE comes -- yes, the packaged version of UAE comes -- with provisions for running some programs (those that don't need OS functions, or only need very few of them, i.e. mostly demos) out of the box, without any other firmware
<ctrlsoft> "For "proper" use of UAE, you need some version of the Kickstart ROM, and some OS running on top of this (most likely some version of the Amiga OS). Both don't comply to the DFSG (to say the least) and must be obtained from other sources."
<LjL> how is "proper use" defined however?
<LjL> why is running demos not such?
<ctrlsoft> that's the reason it's in contrib in Debian (and therefore in multiverse in Ubuntu)
<ctrlsoft> don't know - I guess it means "for anything useful"
<LjL> well, since you say that, another issue -- i believe the comparison to Debian doesn't completely hold. that's because i don't believe Debian ships any *closed source* packages in contrib -- for instance, it wouldn't ship that vmware-player that we have in Multiverse, i suppose
<ctrlsoft> LjL: no, debian ships that in non-free
<ctrlsoft> debian ships packages which rely on non-fre stuff in "contrib"
<ctrlsoft> Ubuntu has (afaik) both contrib and non-free in "multiverse"
<LjL> so, shipping free software (which does require proprietary firmware) together with 100% binary-only closed software, in the same repository, sounds like a bit of a clash to me. And for instance, why don't we ship Opera in Multiverse as well? how's its situation different from vmware-player's?
<lifeless> ctrlsoft: 'useful' is quite subjective :)
<gnomefreak> why does this have to be such a pita today brb smoke
<LjL> ctrlsoft: about "usefulness". I had been writing a free/open-source ZX Spectrum operating system (which, however, i never finished nor released). Since I don't have a ZX Spectrum, I had to resort to an emulator. However, I never needed proprietary files in order to do that "useful" work on my emulator
<ctrlsoft> LjL: please file a bug on the package about this
<LjL> ctrlsoft: you mean the vmware-player package?
<ctrlsoft> LjL: If you disagree with the repository it is in
<ctrlsoft> LjL: no, with the uae one
<ctrlsoft> LjL: I think the reason the opera package is in a different repository is because it is supported by canonical (?) or because it has licensing issues that prevent it from being in multiverse
<LjL> ctrlsoft, i believe bug reports are mainly intended to report bugs... mind you, this does not mean i believe the issues we're talking about should never become a bug report. but i do believe that some informal discussion might be best, first
<LjL> ctrlsoft: hm, well, that reminds me of another thing... installing vmware-player (from Multiverse) results in a debconf requester that asks you to accept a license agreement. i believed that, at least in Debian, this kind of "click to agree" stuff couldn't be acceptable for packages?
<LjL> gnomefreak: sorry for being a PITA. in my defense, i have to say this is the first time i even join this channel :-)
<gnomefreak> LjL: not you eclipse is being one since yesterday
<LjL> oh
<ctrlsoft> LjL: sorry, I'm not familiar with the specifics on what is and what isn't allowed in multiverse in Ubuntu or contrib/non-free Debian
<gnomefreak> ok that was strange :(
<LjL> ctrlsoft: anyway, let's put the UAE vs vmware-player vm whatever details away for a moment -- the issue that really concerns me is just the mixing of open-source package and completely proprietary packages in Multiverse, without a way to even tell which is which. question: would you agree that an easy way to tell (from, say, apt-cache) a package that's under an OSI license from a package that is closed-source would be a good idea?
<Fujitsu> vmware-player should really be in -commercial, shouldn't it?
<gnomefreak> is player or server non free?
<gnomefreak> one is free iirc
<LjL> Fujitsu: i don't know, that's part of why i'm here ;-) however, i think it should, just as a feeling
<LjL> gnomefreak: both are free beer. Workstation, on the other hand, is for cash.
<azeem> Fujitsu: the difference between multiverse and -commercial is that the latter is supported by Canonical I thought
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak, they are free as in gratis, neither as in libre.
<LjL> gnomefreak: only the player comes packages though
<LjL> packaged
<gnomefreak> ok packages are built now what do i need to do with them? i would love to test this to see if my changes worked
<gnomefreak> ah i guess that makes sense yes they should be in commericial (atleast it seems like they should)
<LjL> gnomefreak: on one side i have this "vmware might possibly have a better place in commercial" -- on the other side you have a ton of emulators in multiverse, just because the firmware (which is *not* packaged) is proprietary -- and for a lot of them, i can bet free alternatives exists, they're just not packaged
<LjL> heck, there must be like 10 different free operating systems around just for the C64 :)
<azeem> LjL: if the free firmwares are packaged (and there are no legal issues), those would mirate to universe
<azeem> migrate, even
<azeem> until then, they stay in multiverse
<LjL> azeem: ok, so the deciding question is whether there are any free alternatives that are *packaged*. that's an answer.
<azeem> if the package is useless without stuff which is not packaged, it shouldn't be shipped in universe
<LjL> well, i can still sort of debate on the definition of "useless", since as i said, i could be using a ZX Spectrum emulator to *write* an operating system for it. but still, that makes sense
<cypher1_> what is meant by "dummy transitional package" ?
<azeem> cypher1_: a package which is empty except for a Dependency on something else, to ease transitioning
<LjL> cypher1_: that the real package has changed its name, i guess
<cypher1_> azeem, does that mean that package has been removed in the new release ?
<azeem> cypher1_: see LjL, it usually indicates a name change
* gnomefreak has head up eclipses butt nothing makes sense anymore :(
<LjL> azeem: do you believe i could/should file a wishlist (and if so, file it to what) for an easier way to distinguish open-source from binary-only packages in Multiverse?
<gnomefreak> brb
<azeem> LjL: not sure, Debian has that destinction (contrib vs. non-free), but Ubuntu puts both into multiverse
<LjL> azeem: yes, and i don't believe i'm even going to try changing that... however, even leaving it all in multiverse, at least "apt-cache show" could give a clue (perhaps a "This package is provided in binary-only form" in the description, say)
<azeem> LjL: that looks like a gratuituos diverge from Debian, which leads to more sycn/merge work
<azeem> it should be rather encoded in the other meta-data I'd say
<LjL> azeem: perhaps, i don't know what would make more sense technically.
<cypher1_> LjL, azeem thanks..let me do more searching
<LjL> azeem: but then again i don't think (well, at least i don't hope) there are too many packages that would be concerned
<cypher1_> azeem, i was looking at wxvlc package in edgy..although it is mentioned as dummy transitional package, it has 7 files in it , http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=wxvlc&version=edgy&arch=all
<LjL> azeem: what about adding a "Conflicts: FreeSoftwareFoundation"?  (just facetious ;)
<azeem> cypher1_: doesn't look very right
<lupine_85> Conflicts: RMS would be better :p
<LjL> lupine_85: yes, i was almost going to say that, but i didn't want to sound like an outright troll :P
<cypher1_> azeem, do you mean that is a bug in edgy ?
<lupine_85> RMS is cool, but... RMS-y
<azeem> cypher1_: not sure, more investigation (are those real binaries, or just wrapper scripts etc.) would be needed
* cypher1_ saw RMS couple of months back in a conference :)
<LjL> cypher1, azeem_:
<LjL> ljl@ljlbox:~$ dpkg -L wxvlc
<LjL> /.
<LjL> seems quite empty to me
<azeem> then packages.u.c file list data is out of date
<LjL> i don't know, but to my mind this sounds more like a bug in the packages.ubuntu.com site than anything else
<StevenK> packages.u.c isn't under the control of Ubuntu.
<cypher1_> LjL, i see more problem if wxvlc is empty since i cannot find /usr/bin/wxvlc in any other packages at all
<StevenK> Personally, I look at the build logs on launchpad.
<LjL> !search wxvlc
<ubotu> Found:
<LjL> uhm... well, i *have* wxvlc
<cypher1_> i was triaging bug 66221 - no wxwidget interface
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66221 in vlc "no wxwidget interface" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66221
<LjL> it's in the "vlc" package, no matter what the rest of the guys say
<LjL> (by "guys" i mean package.ubuntu.com and ubotu)
<LjL> (though the syntax for ubotu was probably !find, i can never remember)
<cypher1_> argh.. so packages.ubuntu.com is very misleading
<LjL> well, for that matter "apt-file search wxvlc" also lists the wxvlc package
<cypher1_> LjL, i am on dapper :(
<LjL> but i can definitely tell you that, in my edgy, wxvlc doesn't contain any files, while vlc does contain /usr/bin/wxvlc
<cypher1_> ok great thanks LjL
<LjL> hmm, not sure it really makes any difference... wxvlc was transitional in dapper as well IIRC
<cypher1_> LjL, no i can see more than 10 files in my dapper
<cypher1_> more than 10 files in "dpkg -L wxvlc" in dapper
<LjL> cypher1_: i see. well then i guess the index simply wasn't updated for edgy, and those files are still listed
<LjL> whether that should be filed as a bug, i don't know
<cypher1_> that is pretty bad.. especially when ppl try to use it.. like in my case of triaginh
<sivang> re all
<sivang> does anyone know if slomo came back already ?
<gnomefreak> sivang: i havent seen him
<Adri2000> anyone knows why xdtv isn't in universe?
<pirast> Adri2000, as far as I can see it isn't in Debian, that means that it has to be pakaged by someone or that it has to be synced from a repository which has it..
<hash_> Hi, just wondering if Edgy is frozen even for small bug fixes?
<Lathiat> It is but you can get approvals from motu-uvf where appropriate
<giskard> what is the fix (no, i'm not a motu-uvf :/ )
<hash_> Thanks. It's a trivial fix, here's the patch: http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/sinhala/patches/firefox_1.99%2B2.0rc2%2Bdfsg-0ubuntu2-sinhala1.patch?root=sinhala
<hash_> What should I do next to see if it can be included in Edgy?
<tortoise_> hash_: ask in #ubuntu-devel
<hash_> thanks!
<tortoise_> hash_: and file a bug against firefox at launchpad.net saying what it fixes and attach the patch
<hash_> thanks again, cya
<pirast> how are the .install s in the debian directory being called?
<pirast> ajmitch, did you get gnomesword to compile?
<crimsun> keescook: thanks for the john fix; been gone all weekend
<pirast> please please help me... what tells dpkg that it should copy the content of .install?
<ivoks> dh_install
<pirast> ivoks, thanks :-)
* pirast hugs ivoks :-)
<ivoks> lol
<pirast> thanks, it helped :-)
<ivoks> np
<herz1> hey dudes
<pirast> hey
<highvoltage> hi. how can I make a request for software to be packaged? (assuming I can :) )
<crimsun> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<highvoltage> crimsun: thanks
<highvoltage> crimsun: what happens when a package in universe is completely unmaintained and becomes obsolete, is it ever removed, or does the old version just get carried along forever?
<highvoltage> for example, there's a drupal package for version 4.5.8-1, which is so old and insecure that no one should use (or would want to) it.
<ivoks> highvoltage: packages in universe have their maintainers in debian, not ubuntu
<ivoks> lots of packages in universe (and in main even) aren't touched by ubuntu devs
<ivoks> i.e. it becomes obsolete when debian drops it or when the package is stoping some transition
<highvoltage> ivoks: wouldn't it be better for the overall quality of Ubuntu if packages like the above are dropped from universe?
<ivoks> well, no
<ivoks> if there is one user that would use it, that package fullfiled it's goal
<ivoks> it doesn't get installed by default
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> quite honestly, I don't think there is one user that would want to use it.
<highvoltage> no one should really be using such an old version of drupal.
<crimsun> highvoltage: the best we can hope for at this stage is to sync 4.5.8-5 from sid
<crimsun> there doesn't seem to be a newer Debian package
<sivang> slomo !
<slomo> hi sivang :)
<crimsun> nice vacation?
<sivang> at last his back...
<sivang> slomo: yeah, how was it? :)
<slomo> yes, was wonderful :) i'm completely relaxed now to start university tomorrow again ;)
<crimsun> hehe
<sivang> good to hear that
<slomo> did anything interesting happen in the last days?
<sivang> not that I know off
<sivang> some specs planning for UDS
<sivang> ah,
<sivang> I'fe mass filed UNMETDEPS bugs
<sivang> and folks have been working o nthem to make universe more installable
<slomo> sounds good :)
<crimsun> sivang: just ping the UVFe team after you upload fixes
<pirast> sivang, btw. your script has a little bug :-) it wrongly detected gcc-4.1 because it has amd64 only binary packages :-)
<sivang> pirast: yeah, thanks, I saw your post about this :)
<sivang> pirast: I need to think a way to make it ignore different arches to that where the script has been executed
<sivang> crimsun: ping ajmitch / dholbach before the upload
<pirast> is anyone interested in cheking and uploading two patches to the archive :-)
<crimsun> sivang: the former prefers you don't block on their approval prior to upload
<pirast> sivang, yeah, also there are certainly some packages which do not install in other archs than i386..
<ajmitch> sivang: yes?
<ctrlsoft> ajmitch: any idea when bzr-svn will appear in the archive? It's been listed as "done" for quite some time now
<chillywilly> hi
<ajmitch> ctrlsoft: probably held up in binary NEW
* ajmitch checks
<sivang> ajmitch: sorry, didn't mean to bug, just mentioned your nick in reference to UVF team
<ajmitch> hm
<zul> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> ctrlsoft: sources are in, at least :)
<ajmitch> hello zul
<ctrlsoft> ajmitch: ah, cool - thanks!
<ajmitch> ctrlsoft: FTBFS
<ajmitch> which is strange, since I built it a few times before upload
<ajmitch> aha
<pirast> ajmitch, hi
<ajmitch> Setting up subversion (1.3.2-3ubuntu2) ...
<ajmitch> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:191: process_queue: Assertion `dependtry <= 4' failed.
<ajmitch> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg exited unexpectedly
<ajmitch> some breakage beyond my control
<ctrlsoft> hmm
<ajmitch> hello pirast
* ctrlsoft wonders what could've caused that
<ajmitch> seems like everyone wants to ping me & hunt me down today
<pirast> lol :-)
<zul> slomo: ping
<ctrlsoft> ajmitch: sorry :-) If there's anything I can do to help fix it, please let me know.
<slomo> zul: pong
<zul> slomo: can i get an uvf exception for xen-3.0.3-rc5?
<ctrlsoft> ajmitch: are these build logs available publicly somewhre?
<ajmitch> ctrlsoft: quite public
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/bzr-svn/0.1-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> on the left
<slomo> zul: better ask ajmitch now... i have to catch up with all mails, etc that i got in the last days ;)
<ctrlsoft> ah, thanks
<zul> ok
<zul> ajmitch: feh..:)
<ajmitch> slomo: just a UVF exception for xen, I already gave an ok :)
<pirast> ajmitch, did you get any further with gnomesword?
<ajmitch> pirast: I was working on other things as well
<ajmitch> & taking a short break
<pirast> ajmitch, it is ok, i didnt want to bug you :-)
<ajmitch> sure you didn't.. :P
<zul> so can i upload?
<zul> heh bugging ajmitch is fun
<pirast> zul, lol :-D
<ajmitch> depends if the package works
<zul> assuming that you tested your udev stuff
<ajmitch> more or less :)
<zul> heh..
<chillywilly> weeee, cable is back on
<chillywilly> yay, internet
<pirast> night
<sivang> night pirast
<poningru> hi quick question is revu dead right now?
<mr_pouit> yes, didn't survive a dist-upgrade to dapper
<poningru> arr?
<poningru> as in it was moved somewhere else? or the box itself didnt survive the dist-upgrade?
<mr_pouit> it seems it was a kernel problem (didn't reboot)
<Toadstool> hey everybody
<jldugger> Hey, Dr. Nick!
<Toadstool> uh?
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> is there anyway to remove all pacakges fro ma certain repo?
<cbx33> I added a repo to try beryl, but I want to remove those packages now
<cbx33> how canI find out which ones were installed from alternatvie repos
<cbx33> things lithe the beta nvidia driver....I want to replace with the version in the ubuntu repos
<shawarma> apt-show-versions used to be able to do the trick.
<cbx33> but that doesn't seem to exist anymore
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> maybe it does
<cbx33> shawarma, how? . it just seems to show current versions
<cbx33> not where they came from :(
<ajmitch> or you could try for apt-pinning
<cbx33> ajmitch, got any further info?
<cbx33> I've heard of pinning
<cbx33> do you mean make my edgy repos more important that the custom onse
<cbx33> so that they overwrite the pacakges?
<cbx33> thanx ajmitch
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> downgrading may hurt though
<ajmitch> depending on how broken their packages are
<cbx33> if I had these
<cbx33> deb http://amaranth.selfip.com edgy lrm
<cbx33> deb http://www.beerorkid.com/compiz/ edgy main-edgy
<cbx33> according to this page http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
<cbx33> I would use edgy as the identifying name
<cbx33> but edgy appears in all repos?
<cbx33> I'm confused
* ajmitch can't recall all the details
<ajmitch> there is a way
<ajmitch> you can use the origin or release tags in the release files
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks
<ajmitch> man apt_preferences
<ajmitch> for the details
<cbx33> ok
<pygi> hello
<pygi> I need someone willing to do some serious help to me :)
<cbx33> ok ajmitch last question
<cbx33> nvidia-glx:
<cbx33>   Installed: 1.0.9625+2.6.17.5-11~amaranth
<cbx33>   Candidate: 1.0.9625+2.6.17.5-11~amaranth
<cbx33>   Version table:
<cbx33>  *** 1.0.9625+2.6.17.5-11~amaranth 0
<cbx33>         500 http://amaranth.selfip.com edgy/lrm Packages
<cbx33>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<cbx33>      1.0.8774+2.6.17.5-10 0
<cbx33>        1000 http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com edgy/restricted Packages
<cbx33> how do I downgrade to my preferred package?
<ajmitch> you can downgrade by version
<Toadstool> pygi: just ask ;)
<ajmitch> apt-get --reinstall install nvidia-glx=1.0.8774+2.6.17.5-10
<Toadstool> hey ajmitch
<cbx33> thanks ajmitch
<ajmitch> salut Toadstool
<Toadstool> :)
<pygi> Toadstool: I have a patch for GB that really MUST get in before release because GB is broken without it
<Toadstool> GB?
<pygi> gnomebaker
<Toadstool> ah!
<pygi> I doubt we want to ship completely broken gnomebaker ;)
<Toadstool> pygi: is this patch attached to a bug on LP?
<pygi> Toadstool: yup
<pygi> I reviewed the patch, all fine
<Toadstool> bug number?
<pygi> 63805
* Toadstool lazy
<pygi> bug 63085
<Toadstool> bug 63805
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63085 in initramfs-tools "Amd64/i386 initrd do not contain jmicron.ko module" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63085
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63805 in gnomebaker "Gnomebaker 0.6 not recognizes my CD-RW" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63805
<pygi> wth, two different bugs under same number !
<Toadstool> nope
<Toadstool> you made a typo :p
<pygi> o right :P
<Toadstool> hmm upstream patch?
<pygi> the patch is in upstream's cvs
<Toadstool> ok
<pygi> (commited there I mean) :P
<pygi> but Luke tends to have long release cycles, so .... :)
<Toadstool> ajmitch: I suppose I have to ask someone to accept the upload at this point of the release cycle, right?
<pygi> Toadstool: Kamion will accept it
<Toadstool> ok, great!
<pygi> Toadstool: thanks for the help btw. :)
<Toadstool> no problem
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-08
<prcs> i there
<prcs> i've just installed ubuntu
<prcs> and i'm already interest on this MOTU community
<prcs> can anyone help me to find more info for example how to enter on it?
<prcs> thanks in advance
<crimsun> prcs: please see the Contributing link in the topic
<prcs> thanks
<prcs> thanks crimsun
<prcs> ;)
<crimsun> yw
<bddebian> Heya gang
<gnomefreak> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hi gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> what was the intel video card 965 missing that it needs to run compiz?
<gnomefreak> i cant remember exact reason
<jmg_> gah
<jmg_> new york times advocating automatix :(
<RAOF> gnomefreak: Probably that it didn't handle Xv + compiz
<gnomefreak> jmg_: linux foundation told larry to post it in his article
<RAOF> Which would be that the driver doesn't handle textured-video, I think.
<gnomefreak> that sounds right
<jmg_> gnomefreak: :?
<jmg_> so what was the status of fluendo dvd in the end? has canonical licensed it?
<RAOF> jmg_: Fluendo has a dvd-nav gstreamer plugin?
<jmg_> RAOF: dont know how it works, but its required to use the dvd functionality for elisa
<RAOF> Hm, it doesn't appear to include a DVD title nav plugin (ala dvdnav).  I wonder how that works...
<gnomefreak> jmg_: thats what the author of the nytimes article told me
* gnomefreak emailed larry(the author) about the automatix suggestion in the article
<gnomefreak> caught flak from automatix people
<jmg_> of course
<gnomefreak> i miss stated what i meant and they went at me but crap happens
<StevenK> Automatix would be easier to deal with if the authors weren't so *defensive*
<gnomefreak> and they cleaned it up a bit ;)
<StevenK> That too. :-)
<RAOF> I see they at least *say* they want to come in from the cold, though.
<ajmitch> it's a good start
<RAOF> Will any of them be at UDS?
<ajmitch> probably
<gnomefreak> i get to miss it again :(
<gnomefreak> and its close only ~800 or so miles
<RAOF> What excuse do you have this time, then?
<RAOF> :)
<gnomefreak> court on oct 31
<RAOF> As juror, I trust?
<gnomefreak> no
<gnomefreak> not that lucky
<RAOF> :(
<gnomefreak> being sued for an accedent
<RAOF> That sucks.
<gnomefreak> eh she wont win. too many people saw the traffic light being red when she hit me
<RAOF> Which is worse, right?  Well, maybe.
<RAOF> As in, it's a frivolous waste of your time.
<gnomefreak> agreed
<gnomefreak> 3 days worth of paperwork each year this was 2 years ago
<DarkMageZ> it's a shame how crap like that even manages to make it to court
* gnomefreak needs a lawyer with a pc i think
<RAOF> Wow, the lightning fast arm of the law.
<gnomefreak> yep but damn if i shoot someone for tresspassing ill be indited and found gulty faster than you can blink
<gnomefreak> irony sucks
<RAOF> Over IRC?  Yes.
<gnomefreak> ;)
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> I think I have virtualbox-ose-modules working.
<StevenK> Now to fudge up a copyright and get someone to test the modules actually work.
<YokoZar1> Any REVU admins around?  I have two uploads to make, but I can't because of flaky internet and I'm not sure what to do
<ScottK> YokoZar1: Do you have anywhere else you can post them?
<YokoZar1> ScottK: yeah
<ScottK> In that case, just put them up where you can and mail the motu list or ping someone here.
<ScottK> jdong: Did you have anything to do with the Automatix "we want to play too" mail?
<jdong> ScottK: I am unfamiliar with the e-mail itself, so probably not :)
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> jdong: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-October/001902.html
<YokoZar1> Also, is it ok to have .svg files in the /debian folder?
<jdong> ScottK: very interesting; I'd love to see where it will go. The attitude sounds right and promising
<ScottK> jdong: Yes.  The concern I have is they are saying nothing about making it respect that packaging system.
<bddebian> YokoZar1: Yes
<YokoZar1> What is the main use case for Automatix in Gutsy now anyway?  Gutsy does a whole lot automatically
<YokoZar1> bddebian: Thanks.  I got worried when I had to remove the .png files (also icons) since dpkg threw a fit about unrepresentable changes to source.
<bddebian> YokoZar1: Aye, you can't add binary files.  xpm or svg are OK since they aren't binary
<ScottK> YokoZar1: Historically the main use case has been Automatix is REALLY cool and anyone who thinks there are problems with it just doesn't understand.
<bddebian> Sounds like compiz
* bddebian hides
* ScottK wonders if it's still going to sigkill dpkg.
<YokoZar1> Well before people were using Automatix to add the winehq repos, for instance
<YokoZar1> I'm going to try and pimp Third Party Apt for Hardy to get rid of that usage (since installing, say, the Wine repos would be point and click)
<YokoZar1> People were also using Automatix to install codecs, but that's done smoothly now too
<ScottK> YokoZar1: Sure.  Some of it's actually useful for someone who doesn't know what they are doing, but those are the same people most likely to get burned by the crackpot aspects of it's design.
<YokoZar1> No argument here
<ScottK> jdong: I'd hate to have the first response they get from an Ubuntu dev amount to "Yes, but are you going to make it not suck?"
<ScottK> I think if they are going to do so, they ought to say it, if not, there isn't much to discuss.
<ScottK> I was hoping you could ask around a little.
<jdong> ScottK: hobbsee already took the honor of making a similar remark at the forums (linking to Matthew's analysis of the codebase)...
<ScottK> Ah.  Cool.
<jdong> ScottK: so at this point I think it'd be redundant to ask again, but I'll put chatting on #automatix on my todo list
<ScottK> That's pretty much what I was tempted to do.
<ScottK> OK.
<RAOF> ScottK: Also, last time I checked (a month or so ago), Automatix still sigkilled dpkg.
<ScottK> I was sort of hoping to get some dialogue going from someone they viewed as less hostile.
<ScottK> RAOF: Thanks.  I'm not suprised.
<ScottK> My impression is that they don't really get why that's a bad idea.
<RAOF> How hard can it be to get?
<ScottK> RAOF: Apparently pretty hard based on the evidence to date.
<RAOF> Incidentally, the XFont-enabled branch of emacs-snapshot will be making Hardy if I have anything to do with it!
<RAOF> ScottK: :/
<jdong> hmm, will the real maildirmake please stand up?
<ScottK> Well on the forums the response is, "Oh, yeah, I fixed all that stuff."  We'll see.
<YokoZar1> Maybe I should talk to the automatix people
<YokoZar1> I've been IMing with the main guy for a bit ever since he added the Wine repos to the program
<ajmitch> jdong: the 'real' one?
<jdong> ajmitch: there's like 3 different ones provided by various packages... is there one that's better than others, or will this dovecot one I have around work?
<ajmitch> the dovecot one works for me
<jdong> ok, I'll give it a shot
<ScottK> YokoZar1: Personally, I think that, as long as they are fixing the evil in Automatix, this is a good announcement.
<RAOF> Certainly.  Automatix is a symptom of a real problem/need, and could possibly be a useful part of a solution.
<persia> What would a solution look like?  A repository of illegal software and a meta-package?
<RAOF> Possibly :)
<RAOF> That's not quite the entirety of the problem it is symptomatic of, though.
<RAOF> Although much of the rest of the problem is already solved (restricted manager, easy-codec-install, etc.)
<RAOF> apt-url is also eating in on the problem, too.
<YokoZar1> RAOF: apt-url + third party APT pretty much solves it
<Amaranth> except that apt-url is not going to work with 3rd party repos
<persia> Amaranth: Why not?
<Amaranth> security concerns
<persia> Amaranth: Can't the user tweak that by adding the necessary keys?
<ajmitch> at which point there's no point using apt-url
<persia> clicky-clicky
<YokoZar1> Third Party Apt could add both keys and default packages.  EG when you add the Wine repo, it'll add the winehq key and the wine package.
<YokoZar1> I don't see how apt-url would tell apart the wine in the wine repo from the stock one, if both have valid signatures in the user's apt-key database
<bddebian> Why do I constantly feel like I'm talking to myself anymore...
<ScottK> bddebian: #debian-mentors can be like that.
<bddebian> ScottK: Heh.  I mean in general but yeah, that's what prompted that remark :-)
<bddebian> ScottK: If kmos package gets in before mine, I'm hanging it all up. :-)
<bddebian> tritium!!
<tritium> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> How you been man?
<tritium> Good, thanks.  You?
<bddebian> Same as always thanks :)
<tritium> Glad to hear it!
<Amaranth> RAOF: did you have to modify the udev rules to use iwl3945?
* RAOF regrets ever touching the Azureus bugs.
<RAOF> Hey jml
<jml> RAOF: hi
<ajmitch> hi jml, RAOF
<StevenK> RAOF: Isn't hindsight wonderful? (Ever touching the Azureus bugs.)
<RAOF> StevenK: Eh, indeed.  And now people send me emails saying "please fix my Azureus" :(
<StevenK> "Stop trying to pirate movies and animes using it. Problem solved."
<RAOF> "A simple merge from Debian will solve it" <---- Correct, in all but the "simple"
<StevenK> Hah.
<StevenK> "Simple? You try it, and let me know." :-P
<RAOF> I wouldn't foist Azureus on a prospective contributor.  They'd think we were gods or insane, or possibly both.
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> Oh, I love Telstra.
<StevenK> "Due to a high number of calls, this service is not currently available. Please call back later. <click>"
<RAOF>  /blink
<StevenK> I'm ringing them to pay my bill - surely they'd love to hear from me, I want to give them some of my money!
<RAOF> Not allowing customers to pay you money is the new business model.
<RAOF> cf: Region locking, not-for-Australia artists on eMusic, etc.
<StevenK> How is that possibly sustainable? :-)
<RAOF> Magic.  By not letting them pay you money, you make more money!
<pwnguin> RAOF: you have nouveau packaged anywhere?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yes, in my PPA, but it's a little old.
<pwnguin> xrandr1.2?
<RAOF> pwnguin: If you want to wait for this evening I'll update the packages, rebuild libdrm against -13-generic, etc.
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yes.  Both the branch, and trunk which now has the XRandR12 xorg.conf option.
* pwnguin is looking for rotate 180 functionality
<pwnguin> you happen to have a link to the tree?
<pwnguin> nouveau's site is a bit ugly and hard to follow =/
<RAOF> pwnguin: You mean, the bzr branch I'm packaging in?  No, it's on my lappy.
<pwnguin> upstream
<StevenK> Hum.
<RAOF> pwnguin: However, !nouveau links to the PPA, and my packages have the full git tree in them (so they contain proper debug info)
<pwnguin> like, where's their git/cvs/wtfever
<RAOF> pwnguin: So, a quick dget from the PPA + a git pull should see you at trunk.
<pwnguin> im wanting to view the source to investigate specific functionality
<ajmitch> gitweb.freedesktop.org, I think
<ajmitch> the dri component is in the mesa project
<RAOF> pwnguin: ajmitch is correct.  And the DRI component isn't necessary for 2d operation (and barely works), but you
<RAOF> *need* libdrm trunk
<pwnguin> well, im not about to build it
<pwnguin> just want to see if what i want is even there at all
<pwnguin> but thanks for the tip
<pwnguin> on a related note, what is Haiku?
<ajmitch> beos implementation
<pwnguin> ah
<ajmitch> basically a free software clone of it
<ajmitch> binary compatibility & all, apparantly
<pwnguin> "it"
<ajmitch> BeOS, as above
<pwnguin> oh
<pwnguin> i just see references to haiku every once in a while, and i thought it strange i'd never heard of it before
<ajmitch> it's not particularly well known
<pwnguin> i can see why now
<pwnguin> good news, its still not fixed in the upstream
<pwnguin> guess i'll bug their mailing list about it
<superm1> how do i build a package without an @ubuntu.com addy for maintainer?  It's a motumedia package i'm fixing, and debuild -S complains.
<pwnguin> set up a GPG key
<superm1> pwnguin, you intending that for me?
<pwnguin> yes
<jdong> how does setting up a GPG key bypass that check for @ubuntu.com in the e-mail address?
<superm1> yeah i've got GPG keys setup for my own @ubuntu.com addy.
<superm1> there must be a switch to pass to debuild to change this behavior i'd think
<superm1> i can't seem to find on the man pages however
<RAOF> superm1: Last I checked that was a warning, not an error?
<jdong> RAOF: on my machine it causes a FTBFS
<superm1> dpkg-source: error: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<superm1> debuild: fatal error at line 1247:
<superm1> and that is all it says
<superm1> stops right there
<RAOF> Hm.  That's annoying.  I thought that behaviour was changed.
* RAOF basks in the joy of a python script for writing TeX macros.
<superm1> Fujitsu, siretart, slomo, how do you guys upload then?
<tonyyarusso> superm1: you don't, you have to have it I think.
<superm1> well how did they upload before then?
<superm1> i mean the current version in gutsy is listed with Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Media Team <motumedia@tauware.de>
<soren> superm1: What's your DEBEMAIL environment variable set to?
<superm1> soren, to my addy, superm1@ubuntu.com
<soren> superm1: unset it and try again.
<soren> (that check is only enabled if $ENV{'DEBEMAIL'} ~= /ubuntu.com/
<StevenK> It doesn'
<StevenK> Gah
<StevenK> It doesn't check what the Changed-By address is? That's ... interesting.
<superm1> ah there we go.
<superm1> thanks soren
<soren> superm1: np
<superm1> that's some odd behavior though.  for the people it's trying to avoid having issues, you would think they would typically be ones who don't have DEBEMAIL set
<soren> superm1: Huh?
<YokoZar1> I cannot upload to REVU, I have put a new Wine and ia32-libs package at my own webspace here: http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/experimental/
<superm1> soren, isn't that behavior supposed to be to prevent new people from mis listing maintainer addy?
<soren> superm1: If your DEBEMAIL has "ubuntu.com" in it, it's likely you're working on packages for Ubuntu. And packages for Ubuntu are the ones that should have an original maintainer field.
<superm1> or is it a different purpose?
<superm1> ah i see
<asisak> Good morning!
<YokoZar1> ScottK: http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/experimental/
<superm1> mornin asisak
<superm1> soren, those vmware modules you were going to be doing for l-u-m, are those going to happen for gutsy, or is l-u-m closed from new stuff now?
<pwnguin> !nouveau
<ubotu> Nouveau is an experimental open-source nVidia driver, aiming for full 3d support.  Homepage at http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/ - EXPERIMENTAL packages at https://launchpad.net/~raof/+archive
<dholbach> good morning
<tonyyarusso> pkern: Are you in charge of sobby as well as gobby?
<soren> superm1: I expect them to land in the -virtual image for gutsy.
<superm1> soren, awesome
<superm1> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey superm1
<pkern> tonyyarusso: Aye.
<tonyyarusso> pkern: 'k.  What's the preferred method for submitting feature requests / specifications?
<pkern> tonyyarusso: http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/
<tonyyarusso> okay
* tonyyarusso will likely do one soonish
<pkern> tonyyarusso: Don't submit undo, please. :-P
<tonyyarusso> pkern: hehe, no.  flat-file editing with sobby
<tonyyarusso> was just talking about it in -us
<pkern> tonyyarusso: You are free to make up a patch. Sobby is somewhat neglected, i.e. it works and it could serve as a base for further developments but well...
<highvoltage> hey elkbuntu. how's the new job going?
<pkern> tonyyarusso: Armin is currently working on a new solution for collaborative editing and undo still isn't implemented in obby. (Although it might be possible now, with a lot of time.)
<tonyyarusso> pkern: I unfortunately don't know a lick of coding, but can generally describe what I have in my head decently.
<elkbuntu> highvoltage, still in training. it's sooooooooooooooo crap.
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: sorry :(
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: you're alive!  And online!
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: If it makes you feel any better, my dad is being forced to go to a 12-day, 12-hours-a-day leadership conference this week.
<tonyyarusso> Which is especially funny since he's probably had more leadership training than the guys running it.
<elkbuntu> highvoltage, atm we're learning how we will have to explain the countries most complex and ridiculous billing system to joe blogs type people. we're struggling to comprehend it and in 3 weeks time we'll be having to try explain it to consumers...
<Fujitsu> superm1: Which package are you attacking?
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, i'd totally prefer that actually
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: heh, if it makes you feel any better, I went on a course last week on how to deal with government employees while we do the migration
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: not that I have to work with the end-user anyway... at least it was just 2 days
<superm1> Fujitsu, i attacked mplayer
<highvoltage> elkbuntu: and we had to do a bit role-playing.. which was slightly fun
<RAOF> superm1: With a sword, I hope.
<superm1> RAOF, with a mighty large sword actually
<Fujitsu> superm1: Erm, using bzr, I hope?
<superm1> Fujitsu, two minor changes that are in a dpatch in bzr now
<superm1> of course :)
<Fujitsu> dpatch is bzr... if you say so.
<Fujitsu> *in
<Fujitsu> THey released rc2 about 45 minutes ago!
<Fujitsu> More than 11 months after the previous.
<superm1> well it wasn't a new uvf that i uploaded, mine were rather minor :)
<elkbuntu> highvoltage, i'll explain more when i return, i have to now go buy more toilet paper because the crappy 1970's enameled steel cistern of my toilet decided to crack. I managed to patch it with superglue, but now i have 5 soggy rolls of toilet paper that i am so totally unwilling to use...
* RAOF gasps.  A project associated with ffmpeg has *released*!
<Fujitsu> Noted.
<Fujitsu> The changelog looks sooooo much like a second RC. No new features. At all. Of course not.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: !!!
<elkbuntu> StevenK! please save me!!!!!!!1! :(
<superm1> Fujitsu, gawd.  these guys need to learn what 'release candidate' means
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Then come visit me. :-)
<elkbuntu> anyway, afk
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Even better, change in default behaviour since RC1. :)
<Fujitsu> superm1: Just a bit.
<Fujitsu> I didn't even bother to read the whole changelog.
* Fujitsu tries to unbreak Xen, too.
<RAOF> Heh, and new untested features.
<superm1> Fujitsu, some of the changes look very appealing to me though.  h264 improvements listed across 3 areas, matroska improvements
<pwnguin> ooh
<Fujitsu> superm1: Yeah, but it's definitely not a RC.
<superm1> yeah
<Fujitsu> I'll upload it to my PPA in a couple of minutes.
* superm1 imagines the size of the actual diff between 1.0-rc2 and actual 1.0
<Fujitsu> I daren't look.
* RAOF suggests that 1.0 & -rc2 won't actually have any code in common.
<superm1> haha
<StevenK> RAOF: Bwahaha
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see, Epiphany decided to render the .tar.bz2, so my machine froze up.
<Fujitsu> superm1: Thanks for fixing those.
<superm1> Fujitsu, yeah they were turning up mighty annoying on my boxen and resultant mythbuntu disks too :)
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<superm1> so i figured that's the proper solution
* Fujitsu runs diffstat, then closes his eyes.
<Fujitsu>  3160 files changed, 433441 insertions(+), 328901 deletions(-)
<Fujitsu> What an RC.
<StevenK> RC Candidate #1: Rewrote everything, kthxbye!
* Fujitsu files a UVFe, then runs.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Don't make me hurt you.
<Fujitsu> Damn
<Fujitsu> william@irranat:~/MOTUing/MPlayer/orig/MPlayer-1.0rc1$ find | xargs wc -l
<Fujitsu> [...] 
<Fujitsu>  1120079 total
<Fujitsu> That can't be right.
<StevenK> find -type f ?
<Fujitsu> Same...
<Fujitsu> Modified 1/3 of the codebase. Ouch.
<StevenK> 1.1 million lines of code? Naaaah
<StevenK> Oh wait, are they including every single library they link against?
<Fujitsu> Pretty much, I think.
* StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> Idiots
<Fujitsu> Only 761704 lines in *.[ch] 
<RAOF> StevenK: Well, they have to, of course.  Libraries don't provide stable API/ABI, don't you know!
<RAOF> Also, libraries never release
* persia thinks the ABI doesn't matter for code inclusion
<Fujitsu> Yay, ffmpeg.
<StevenK> They do if their authors aren't <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted>.
<RAOF> Indeedydo.  I'd be tempted to try and actually do some release management for them, if the developers weren't absolutely and totally hostile to the very idea of releasing their library.
<jussi01> good morning everyone...
<StevenK> RAOF: "Release
<StevenK> Gah
<jussi01> StevenK: that was a nice thing to walk in and see
<jussi01> :)
<StevenK> jussi01: :-P
<RAOF> jussi01: Good morning!  Welcome to the annual "ffmpeg is stupid" bitchfest
<StevenK> RAOF: "Release? Oh my God, then we'd have to admit we made a mistake at some point in the future!"
<persia> Annual?
<jussi01> RAOF: annual? I thought it was bi-weekly?
<StevenK> Daily? :-P
<RAOF> persia: Eh.  Whatever.  That's the first word that came to mind :)
<RAOF> StevenK: And how could we possibly provide a stable API while still being able to micro-optimise 0.1% speedups for obscure codecs?
<StevenK> RAOF: Without being <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted>? :-)
<Fujitsu> Very useful, yes.
<RAOF> </venting>
<AJ_uni> Greeting ye Masters, sorry to barge in like this again, but I assume it's getting harder and harder to re-sync by every minute right now, if not entirely impossible already, so if any from the motu-uvf team is present, may I ask to take a look at bug #149606, and bug #145538 for the steps explaining the former? Thanks. :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149606 in python-gammu "FreezeException for python-gammu 0.22-2" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149606
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145538 in wammu "[UNMETDEPS]  wammu has unmet dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145538
<pwnguin> RAOF: what does one set the xorg driver to with your package? nouveau?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yup.
<RAOF> pwnguin: Remember, it currently won't work (unless you've updated the packages)
<pwnguin> good to know
<pwnguin> why does your package lack a changelog?
<pwnguin> (or readmes =/)
<StevenK> Like Nouveau has documentation anyway
<pwnguin> heh
<RAOF> pwnguin: Does it?  Hm, I'll look at it when I'm updating my packages this evening :)
<pwnguin> RAOF: xserver-video-nouveou-trunk seems to be missing a changelog in /usr/share/doc
<pwnguin> i suppose for a PPA that sort of thing's fine
<RAOF> As in an upstream changelog?  I don't think they have them.
<pwnguin> no
<pwnguin> as in any changelog
<RAOF> Oh.
<pwnguin> traditionally from debian
<pwnguin> (the dir)
<pwnguin> they do have git comments
<pwnguin> in upstream, but its hardly the same as a readable changelog
<RAOF> I'm not sure why the changelog isn't in there.  Although it's basically "update to new git snapshot" x 10
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> well, i was looking for a setup hint, and all i found was a copyright. so something's right
<pwnguin> at any rate, if you have new packages pushed out in the next eight hours, I guess I'll take a look.
<pwnguin> I should go to bed, its 3am here
<pwnguin> or move to austrialia
<pwnguin> since they seem to be on my schedule
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Amaranth: Incidentally, yes.  I did have to do something to use iwl.  Blacklist ipw, and add iwl to /etc/modules
<Amaranth> RAOF: I had to add ATTRS{type}=="1"
<RAOF> Amaranth: To where?
<Amaranth> in 70-persistent-net.rules
<Amaranth> udev
<RAOF> Hm.  Why?
<Amaranth> RAOF: otherwise I get a broken wlan0_rename device
<RAOF> Well, I get a *working* wlan0_rename device :)
<huats> good morning all
<\sh> remoins..
<geser> morning
<Fujitsu> Hi geser.
<geser> Hi Fujitsu
<PETRO> Enter text here...
<PETRO> U
<PETRO> U
<PETRO> UU
<proppy> hi
<pwnguin> whats this about iwl? a totally free replacement for ipw?
<dholbach> hey geser
<geser> Hi dholbach
<BugMaN> hi all
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yes; also it mostly works.
<pwnguin> seriously, why does azureus use jni? all it seems to do is tank randomly =/
<pwnguin> # Problematic frame:
<pwnguin> # C  [libglibjni-0.4.so+0x9172] 
<Amaranth> pwnguin: azureus is junk anyway
<Fujitsu> Our azureus is also out of date.
<pwnguin> actually, aside from crashing / memory hogging
<pwnguin> it's quite fany
<pwnguin> fancy
<Fujitsu> And being generally slow.
<Amaranth> RAOF: dude the -rt kernel is awesome
<Amaranth> Makes me so sad that I can't use it all the time
<pwnguin> the -rt kernel has actual patches now?
<persia> Amaranth: Why not?  Does it not work properly for some uses?
<Amaranth> persia: It locks the CPU in C0
<Amaranth> no good for a laptop
<pwnguin> heh
<persia> Amaranth: Ah.
<Amaranth> excessive heat and power usage
<pwnguin> well, welcome to realtime land
<Amaranth> the heat i can handle while i'm plugged in
<Amaranth> but i was doing some stuff earlier, ran an apt-get upgrade, didn't even notice
<RAOF> Amaranth: What's particularly cool about -rt?
<Amaranth> RAOF: Music never skips, GUI never stutters, no matter what
<RAOF> pwnguin: I got an email from someone today saying "please fix azureus", because I looked at updating our packages.
<RAOF> Amaranth: Ok, that's pretty cool.  Does nvidia work on -rt now?
<Amaranth> yeah, i've got nvidia and iwl3945
<Amaranth> i'm trying to remember the name of the tools to do load testing
* RAOF takes this opportunity to install -rt
<Amaranth> so i can boost it to 1000 load and watch everything still work :)
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Yes, thankyou for taking the let's-bug-him-because-he-dealt-with-it-last role from me.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: :(
<RAOF> We probably should do something about azureus, if only taking it out of the archive.
<RAOF> And by "we" I mean "someone who's not me".  That package is... urgh.
<pwnguin> RAOF: so what's the diff between azureus and azureus-gcj?
<RAOF> pwnguin: azureus-gcj is compiled to native code; azureus runs on a jvm.
<RAOF> Azureus-gcj works, apparently.  Maybe we should remove just remove azureus.  Eh
<Fujitsu> I think we should probably just sync it from Debian.
<Fujitsu> Dropping Ubuntu patches, as they seem crap anyway.
<persia> Does Debian's version work under Ubuntu?
* persia has seen several syncs that reopened bugs for other packages
<sladen> what do the ubuntu patches do?
* pwnguin is grabbing source now (for feisty)
<pwnguin> looks like it removes a lot of that stupid internet update crap
<Amaranth> RAOF: just ran `stress --cpu 8 --io 4 --vm 2 --vm-bytes 128M --timeout 10s`, no problems
<pkern> What's the status I should set NACK'ed syncs to? Won't Fix or Invalid?
<Amaranth> stress --cpu 30 starts getting touchy
<persia> pkern: NACK'd syncs?
<pwnguin> negative acknowledgement on a request to sync from debian
<persia> Ah.  Depends on the reason.  If it's "We don't want that", it's "Wontfix".  If it's "That's not a properly filled out bug", it's "invalid".  If it's just a case of "not at this time in the cycle", I think it's better to leave open until the next cycle starts, and review it again.
<sladen> you can confirm it and milestone it for later
<pwnguin> do we have ubuntu+2 milestones?
<persia> pwnguin: Why would we want that?  Is there something that shouldn't be in Hardy?
<Fujitsu> sladen: Milestones won't stop -archive attacking...
<pwnguin> persia: uh...
<pwnguin> persia: isnt hardy ubuntu+2?
<persia> pwnguin: No.  It's currently +1, with an expectation to become the development target in a few weeks, and 8.04 in April.
<sladen> *brain explodes*
<Fujitsu> persia: No, Hardy is Ubuntu+2.
<Fujitsu> (see #ubuntu+1)
<pwnguin> heh
<sladen> gutsy is +1 with the expectation to become 7.10 next week
<persia> Ah.  Yes.  Fujitsu is correct.  My apologies.  Hardy is gusty+1 & ubuntu +2.
<persia> s/gusty/gutsy/
<sladen> hardy is +2 with the expectation to become 8.04, 8.05, or 8.06 next year
<Fujitsu> It had better be 8.04.
* Nafallo will expect it to be only 8.04 ;-)
<Fujitsu> I don't think anybody wants another Edgy.
<pwnguin> I heard this from someone in my lug that sabdfl suggested there will be no more delays
<pwnguin> i thought edgy was fine
<pwnguin> from a user standpoint
<persia> pwnguin: From a developer cycle, it was rather rushed.
<pwnguin> indeed
<pkern> persia: It will be autosynced in the next cycle.
<pwnguin> although, i think it was edgy where azureus started crapping out ;)
<persia> pkern: Easy karma then :)
<pkern> It's not about karma ):
<highvoltage> pkern: not!?
<persia> pkern: Still, the bug represents a valid user wish, and we will be fixing it, so I don't think either "invalid" or "wontfix" is appropriate.
<pkern> persia: Nope it's not.
<pkern> persia: :-P
<pkern> Or rather "it does not".
<pwnguin> so mark it confirmed with a target milestone of hardy
<Fujitsu> I'd say wontfix is probably appropriate.
* pkern jumps. (:
<persia> pkern: Does not represent a valid wish?  I suppose it depends on the text of the bug.  If it's "wontfix", the comment should specifically say "wontfix for gutsy because of timing"
<pkern> I flagged it won't fix now and I think it's reasonable. :-P
<pwnguin> i still think marking it confirmed and milestoning for hardy is reasonable, unless they're pushing for an -updates release for feisty gutsy et all
<bigon> \o/
<pkern> bigon: Congrats. :-P
<bigon> pkern: thx :)
<RAOF> bigon: Yay, congrats :)
<bigon> RAOF: thx :)
<huats> bigon: congratulations
<bigon> huats: thank you :)
<mok0> I'd like to setup locally an automated building queue to build packages in i386 & amd64 arch. Can I get a script, somewhere?
<persia> mok0: What kind of queue?  Just for a quick build, or something automated and distributed?
<mok0> A script that will look for *changes files in a directory at certain intervals, build the .debs, and place them in a local repo
<persia> mok0: You might try http://debomatic.linuxdc.it/, but it's a work in progress.
<mok0> persia: that sort of looks like what I'm looking for...
<persia> mok0: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/dak is the official everything solution, but it's more than most people want.
* mok0 looks
<Fujitsu> dak is.... erm.... non-trivial to set up.
<mok0> "don't look at this if you only have a few hundred packages to maintain" :-)
<persia> That's a bit of an understatement :)
<mok0> persia: hehe
<mok0> persia: I'll give debomatic a try, thx for the pointer!
<persia> mok0: No problem.  The primary author is usually around CET evenings and weekends, in case the code is insufficient documentation.
<mok0> We just benchmarked i386 vs. amd64 on the same machine, amd64 has a speed gain of 33%
<persia> mok0: For what application load?
<mok0> 1
<mok0> The 64 bit arch used to be a lot slower than i386 on the same machine
<persia> Rather, what was it doing?  For some code, 64-bits should be faster, and for other code, slower, depending on memory, IO, internal variables, etc.
<mok0> This is a typical application that we use. It does a lot of floating point ops, not much i/o
<mok0> probably a lot of memory
<mok0> Anyway, that's the way we prefer to do benchmarks, we take a typical application that people use. I don't care too much about the theory (why it is faster)...
<persia> mok0: Just be sure to document that it's faster under load X when you publish.  Other application loads may have different results.
<mok0> persia: OK, makes sense. There was something on slashdot today where a guy has done some tests with multiple threads on various OS's -- Linux didn't cut it too well compared to NetBSD...
<persia> mok0: Competition is good: it makes everything better, as long as the domain is specified (e.g. thread optimisation).
<mok0> persia: It will be interesting to see how the new fair scheduler performs
<huats> asac: hey
<huats> asac: I hope you had a nice WE, because I am here and I will bother you with my questions...
<huats> :-)
<asac> huats: sure ...
<huats> asac: (besides my stupid questions, I really hope you had a nice WE)
<asac> huats: are there questions left?
<RAOF> mok0: You could also look at falcon, if Seveas has finished the buildd frontend to it.
<Seveas> fabo, haven't :)
<huats> asac: actually I have :-) I haven't saw your answer about the torbutton (still) but this time the icedove thing... I think it could be a good idea (since it is a dupplicate) to remove the dedicated binary which is built from the same package.And as a consequence to add thunderbird/icedove to the possible dependency of the package ? do you agree with that ?
<asac> huats: yes ... that was the plan
<asac> huats: if torbutton is compatible with firefox 3.0 please install a link to /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/ as well
<asac> and depend on firefox-3.0
<asac> of course you need to add that dir to your .dirs file then
<SlimG2> Is it "legal" to have a .deb package add a cronjob-entry? if so: how is this to be done the proper way?
<persia> SlimG2: dh_installcron
<SlimG2> persia: thank you, I'll try that
<huats> asac: the gutsy revision is not compatible with FF3... or at least is not considered as compatible...
<huats> asac: and for the plan, I just wanted to be sure that we shared it:-)
<jussi01> can someone point me to a tutorial for rolling your own ubuntu cd?
<mok0> jussi01: http://www.google.com ;-)
<asac> huats: ok
<jussi01> mok0: ok, ill rephrase.... can someone point me to a _good_ tutorial for rolling your own ubuntu cd?
<SlimG2> jussi01: http://www.theyagar.com/2006/12/31/how-to-create-a-custom-ubuntu-distro/
<gnomefreak> jussi01: theres one on the wiki iirc
<mok0> jussi01: you mean, with your own set of software on it?
<jussi01> mok0: yeah, but only stuff from the repos...
<gnomefreak> jussi01: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<jussi01> gnomefreak: SlimG2 mok0 thank you very much
<gnomefreak> np
<SlimG2> google-proxying for your comfort ;)
<persia> jussi01: You may also be interested in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch, if you want something very different.
<gnomefreak> any motu(s) feel like taking a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=360 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=284 please ack if you can :) thank you
* ScottK welcomes norsetto back from limbo.
* ScottK thought it had been abolished....
<asisak> Hey ScottK, norsetto
<ScottK> Hello asisak.
<jussi01> persia: ok! thanks!
<norsetto> scottk, asisak: Hi guys
<norsetto> ScottK: hehe, no, that was the gulag (which is not an hungarian dish either....)
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> hi geser
<ScottK> norsetto: How's your Perl?
<norsetto> ScottK: my what :-)?
<ScottK> norsetto: Do you code in Perl at all?
* ScottK guesses that was a no.
<norsetto> ScottK: is there a way to disable this kwallet thingie? Its driving me crazy.
<ScottK> norsetto: IIRC there is, but I don't bother, I just give it always access and so it bothers me once per reboot (which in my case is usually a long time).  If you really want to stop it, I'd ask around in #kubuntu.
<ScottK> Sorry I don't have specific help.
<norsetto> scottK; hey, np, its just getting on my nerves (its always asking for a password, but god only knows which one)
<ScottK> norsetto: If wallet is asking you for a password it's (AFAIK) going to be the wallet password.
<jpatrick> norsetto: open kcontrol -> security -> KWallet and disable it there
<norsetto> scottK; yes, I imaged as well, the problem is what password that is (don't remember ever giving it one).
<gnomefreak> sudo apt-get remove --purge libqt3-mt && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop  (will fix all your kwallet issues i promise) ;)
<ScottK> gnomefreak: He's already a recovering Gnome user.  I doubt he'll be seriously tempted.
<gnomefreak> ah
<norsetto> jpatrick: thx, this should do it
<mok0> What are your views on the lack of an /etc/profile.d directory in ubuntu?
* Hobbsee waves
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<leonel> Hello Motuland !
<norsetto> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya norsetto
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Do you have time for motu-uvf stuff now?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: perhaps, why?
<ScottK> There's some I think worth giving a 2nd ack to.
<ScottK> If you have time, I'll give you links.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Bug #148801 Bug #141640 Bug #144258 are worth a look (or maybe soren if he's around)....
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148801 in lyx "[UVFe]  lyx 1.5.0 -> 1.5.1" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148801
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141640 in ipod-sharp "UVFe ipod-sharp 0.6.3 -> 0.6.4" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141640
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144258 in scribes "[UVFe]  Please sync scribes (universe) 0.3.2.9-1 from Debian Unstable (main)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144258
<norsetto> asac: any chance you can give a look @ bug 150529?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150529 in firefox-3.0 "firefox.sh: unexpected operator ()" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150529
<ScottK> YokoZar1: Did you get anyone to look at your ia32 libs revision yet?
<asac> norsetto: yes ... committed
<norsetto> asac: thx, great!
<asac> norsetto: can you please test if everything works for you with that change?
<norsetto> asac: sure
<norsetto> asac: let me change desktop
<ScottK> Is there a MOTU here with a 64bit arch that can look at the proposed ia-32 libs update? http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/experimental/ia32-libs_2.1ubuntu3.dsc (warning it's a 360MB source).
<ScottK> dholbach: Maybe you could find someone to look at this ^^^
<ScottK> \sh: Have you looked at the latest WIne package? http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/experimental/wine_0.9.46-0ubuntu1.dsc
<ScottK> \sh: I'd appreciate your comments.
<dholbach> ScottK: best to ask doko - he knows a lot about ia32libs
<Hobbsee> ew, ia32libs
<ScottK> dholbach: Thanks.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I only care because it's blocking a Wine upload and I want to make sure we release with the latest wine crack possible.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: mmm ok
* Hobbsee has finished dinner now
<Hobbsee> oh, for reviewing ia32libs.  thought you meant the uvfe stuff
<Hobbsee> StevenK: might
* Hobbsee ducks
<ScottK> doko: Would you please look at a proposed ia-32 libs revision: http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/experimental/ia32-libs_2.1ubuntu3.dsc?  We need this for a proposed WINE update.  IIRC, it adds openssl 0.9.8.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Soren already acked the scribes UVFe, so no need to look at that one.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: assuming it's somewhat sane, just do it.
<Hobbsee> ah, great
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I will, but I'd like to find someone else to share the blame if I can.
<Hobbsee> why?
<pkern> So what can I do? /me got spare time now.
<doko> ScottK: diff of the non-binary files?
<Hobbsee> pkern: you can review ia32libs!  thanks for asking1
<pkern> Hobbsee: Aye.
<ScottK> doko: That'll take a bit, but sure.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: go ahead for lyx
<pkern> Only 2M/s.
<pkern> What a pity.
* pkern goes fetching a coffee. Heh. ;)
<doko> ScottK, pkern: please don't upload yet
<Hobbsee> ScottK: done
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<ScottK> doko: I'm downloading it now.  I'll make you a diff.
<ScottK> pkern: Do you do Perl?
<zul> hey
<ScottK> Heya zul
<zul> thank god for holidays today
<ScottK> Sort of.  It's not an actual factual officialish Federal Holiday, so I'm still working.
<zul> thanksgiving today
<ScottK> zul: I guess I was mistaken, I'd thought you were in the US.  Silly me.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> hell no :)
<asisak> zul: what kind of holidays do you have today?
<asisak> hey bddebian
<mlind> what's the policy about milestoning bug reports? should it be done by devs only?
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<ScottK> bddebian: WRT your last #debian-mentors comment, I totally feel your pain.
<norsetto> asac: do you know why there is no firefox-3.0 binary in the archives? Perhaps its being replaced by -ubuntu2?
<asac> norsetto: might be ... just wait a bit
<asac> norsetto: be sure to use archive.ubuntu.com
<norsetto> asac: yes
<asac> norsetto: you can pull the binaries directly i guess: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/3.0~alpha8-0ubuntu2
<norsetto> asac: thats what I did with the source, but the binary is not there (yet)
<zul> asisak: canadian thanksigving
<ScottK> Columbus Day here in the US.  Sort of a holiday for some people...
<asac> norsetto: click on the architecture you have ... then on the left hand side there are links to the binary packages in _launchpad_
<norsetto> asac: yes, just downloaded :-)
<bddebian> Heya asisak, ScottK
<Hobbsee> mlind: usually, yeah.  which one?
<Hobbsee> mlind: as in, it actually has to have someone to fix it
<\sh> ScottK, this evening I'll have a look and mail something to u-m@l.u.c
<ScottK> \sh: Thanks.
<pkern> ScottK: Do you have me a pointer?
<\sh> ScottK, on my company machines I don't have any development environment ready, just because we don't know when we have to leave this company ;)
<ScottK> pkern: I think Bug #126939 would be reasonably easy to fix for someone that actually knows Perl (e.g. not me).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126939 in razor "spamd creates file in /" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126939
<norsetto> asac: cesare@desktop:~$ firefox-3.0
<norsetto> *NOTICE* No previous firefox profile found, starting with a fresh one
<norsetto> asac: so, it works ...
<ScottK> \sh: Understand.  Tonight is no problem at all as I have to get a new ia32-libs uploaded first.
<\sh> ScottK, cool...you rock :)
* ScottK wonders if his little laptop is going to survive downloading two ia32-libs versions at the same time while compiling ivtools.
<StevenK> It might blow a fuse
<mlind> Hobbsee: it was just a generic question. bug #78690 is preventing some feisty users to upgrade to gutsy, so I though milestoning would be okay to get it in the radar of the release team.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78690 in bluez-utils "[Feisty]  bluez-utils update hangs on stopping bluetooth service" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78690
<norsetto> asac: and if there is a profile already: cesare@desktop:~$ firefox-3.0
<norsetto> *NOTICE* No previous firefox-3.0 profile found, we'll initialize a profile using a copy of your existing 'firefox' profile.
<norsetto> Transfering... done.
<asac> norsetto: good
<asac> thats a known bug
<asac> a fix will land for that
<asac> does it work though?
<norsetto> asac: yes, in both cases
<asac> norsetto: oh ... does that happen after the first run?
<norsetto> asac: yes, but I cleared the .moziila dir
<asac> hmm
<asac> ok
<norsetto> asac: and moved my old .mozilla back
<asac> norsetto: it cleared the .mozilla dir?
<asac> norsetto: our _you_ cleared it?
<norsetto> asac: first I moved my .mozilla to .mozilla-old
<norsetto> asac: then executed firefox-3.0; and it reported *NOTICE* No previous firefox profile found, starting with a fresh one
<norsetto> norsetto: then I deleted the just created .mozilla and moved my .mozilla-old to .mozilla
<norsetto> asac: then I re-run firefox-3.0 and got:  *NOTICE* No previous firefox-3.0 profile found, we'll initialize a profile using a copy of your existing 'firefox' profile.
<asac> norsetto: and now all is fine?
<norsetto> asac: as fine as things can be with firefox .....
<asac> norsetto: why did you do the first step?
<pkern> ScottK: Uh where should the logfile be created in our opinion? /root?
<asac> e.g. first I moved my .mozilla to .mozilla-old
<norsetto> asac: wanted to check that branch
<Hobbsee> mlind: yeah, i'd milestone that
<ScottK> pkern: In the $HOME dir of the $USER (which in this case is root).
<norsetto> asac: btw, I tested gecko-mediaplayer with granparadiso few days ago, and, strangely, it didn't work. Perhaps plug-ins are not yet enabled in granparadiso?
<ScottK> pkern: There's a nother bug on SpamAssassin about starting razor with the wrong user.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
<pkern> ScottK: When I call razor-check as root it's properly created in /root. I suspect that HOME is set incorrectly.
<mlind> Hobbsee: thanks, will do.
<ScottK> pkern: How does that happen then?  Is it all just an artifact of Bug #147992 or a separate issue?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147992 in spamassassin "spamd starts razor as root despite -u spamd" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147992
<pkern> Maybe it should specify -home on invokation, hm.
<zul> ScottK, for that disksearch im just patch and upload it
<ScottK> zul: Sounds reasonable to me.
<pkern> root@asterix:~# HOME= razor-check -d 9 Razor-Log: Computed razorhome from env: /.razor
<pkern> It does not check who is running razor, it just uses HOME to deduce the "right" directory.
<ScottK> That doesn't sound prudent.
<pkern> ScottK: Well, what should it do? Do a getent call to determine the home of whoami?
<pkern> ScottK: I feel that spamassassin calling razor should pass a -home.
<ScottK> And in which case then razor would get it right.
<ScottK> pkern: Feel like patching spamassassin then?  Dumping random files in to "/" seems like a bad thing to leave for the release.
* pkern giggles.
<pkern> ScottK: Just at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=razor;dist=unstable
<pkern> ScottK: s/Just/Look/ o_O
<ScottK> OK.  So it's not a new problem.
<AstralJava> dholbach: Thanks for your patience. :) Bug #150587 filed according to the FE-process.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150587 in gammu "FreezeException for gammu 1.13.0 from sid" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150587
<dholbach> AstralJava: looks good, you just need to subscribe motu-uvf
<dholbach> hey fernando
<AstralJava> dholbach: ahh... forgot about that, just added you according to the email.
<dholbach> AstralJava: thanks
<AstralJava> dholbach: done
<dholbach> great
<ScottK> AstralJava: OK.  I'm confused.  I thought the reason to sync python-gammu was because it was to old for gammu.  Now we have to sync gammu too?
<dholbach> ScottK: there's gammu, wammu and python-gammu
<ScottK> Ah.
<dholbach> seems wammu was synced, python-gammu synced now, now it needs a newer gammu (libgammu-dev)
<ScottK> So how is it someone test built python-gammu and didn't find this?  Are the depends incorrectly versioned?
<dholbach> it looks OK from what I can see, but it should have been discovered earlier that ...
<AstralJava> Yep. Now I only see the seb128 has synced python-gammu 0.22-3, instead of 0.22-2, so I'm guessing sid got a newer version after I made the steps for FreezeException, will that cause trouble?
<AstralJava> ScottK: I made that mistake. Didn't think it thru.
<ScottK> Depends on what's in -3.
<AstralJava> Guess that makes me a hopeless hopeful...
<ScottK> Stuff like "Huge gammu/gammu.c split to smaller files." makes me very nervous.
<AstralJava> Alright, shall I reproduce the steps for 0.22-3?
<fernando> hey dholbach
<ScottK> AstralJava: 0.22-3 has already been sync'ed, right?
<AstralJava> ScottK: According to Bug 145538, that's what I'd say, but maybe I'm just reading it wrong.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145538 in wammu "Sync request: python-gammu (0.22-3; universe) from sid" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145538
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> No need then.
<AstralJava> 'k.
<ScottK> I'm suprised that one got done since it wasn't approved yet.
<AstralJava> ScottK: I was a bit surprised myself about it too, a version that wasn't even tested.
<ScottK> dholbach: Why did you subscribe Bug 145538 to the archive when it wasn't approved yet?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145538 in wammu "Sync request: python-gammu (0.22-3; universe) from sid" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145538
* ScottK points fingers....
<Hobbsee> ScottK: what are your thoughts on irssi, btw?
<dholbach> ScottK: I read your OK and somebody pinged me about it
<dholbach> ScottK: that's why I thought it was stuck and subscribed ubuntu-archive
<ScottK> dholbach: For motu-uvf we've been doing two acks and set to confirmed.
<dholbach> also one task was set to 'confirmed'
<ScottK> Not the sync one.
<ScottK> Gah.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I know nothing about irssi.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: OK, so you dont care if i get that one shoved thru from debian.  good.
* AstralJava feels terrible about this mess :-/
* Hobbsee suspects StevenK will ack it :P
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No.  I don't care.
<gameldar> heya all - a quick question - bug #130208 - I've just uploaded the debdiff for it - restricted/misc packages are (its linux-restricted-modules package) handled by main for sponsorship or universe (hope this is the right place to ask - I got directed here from ubuntu-devel the other day)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130208 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22 "package nvidia-glx None failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130208
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Which bug?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: none yet.  debian's got a RC bug open about it
<Hobbsee> StevenK: http://irssi.org/news/ChangeLog
<ScottK> gameldar: Main and unless the bug in milestoned for Gutsy RC it won't be accepted at this point.
<StevenK> Ah. Neat.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: uh, that'd qualify for a milestone.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: afaik.  would be worht asking in #ubuntu-kernel
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Sure, but I'm not going to decide here.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you cant anyway - l-r-m is main
<gameldar> ScottK: ok thanks!
<ScottK> dholbach: How about a revision for python-gammu with properly versioned build-depends so we don't get in this mess again?
<dholbach> ScottK: what do you mean?
<ScottK> It's my impression that the current python-gammu package lets you build against the wrong gammu package (which is why this didn't get caugh up front).
<ScottK> caugh/caught.
<dholbach> ScottK: maybe I misunderstand you, but the python-gammu on the LP buildds is dep-wait
<dholbach> so it does not build against the old version at all
<ScottK> OK.  Then I'm curious how the test build got done.
* ScottK afk for 5 min.
* ScottK is back.
<jboyd> what's the best way to get started contributing to motu?
<crimsun> jboyd: please see the Contributing link in the topic.
<jboyd> crimsun, i've looked at that, i'm wondering if there's a list somewhere of packages that need to be updated, or is it more along the lines of "find it yourself"
<ScottK> Heya crimsun.
<crimsun> jboyd: at this stage, 7.10 is mere days away from release, so efforts are best concentrated on release-critical bug fixes (as opposed to updating to new versions).
<pochu> jboyd: there's an 'upgrade' tag in launchpad, and a 'needs-packaging' one. Although it may be a bit late for it.
<crimsun> hey ScottK
<AstralJava> dholbach: ScottK: similar pbuilder build of python-gammu-0.22-3 builds fine and install fine. wammu opens up, connects to the phone, retrieves info just fine. gammu can fetch sms texts correctly. Should I attach pbuilder log and a description of these testing actions on the bug?
<ScottK> AstralJava: When you did you test build of python-gammu, where did "UNPACKING LIBGAMMU-COMMON (FROM .../LIBGAMMU-COMMON_1.13.0-1_ALL.DEB)" come from.
<jboyd> crimsun, i guess once 7.10 is released it'd be a better time to start
<azeem> 17:01  * Hobbsee looks up what gtetrinet might be
<ScottK> AstralJava: Yes.
<azeem> you are doomed
<ScottK> jboyd: It won't be that long until the release, so it's not a bad time to start studying up.
<Hobbsee> azeem: :P
<jboyd> i'm running gutsy now, so i guess that's the first step
<AstralJava> ScottK: That was the mistake I made earlier, failing to report about the dependencies, which I'm trying to overcome by filing the gammu (libgammu-dev) re-sync bug.
<AstralJava> ScottK: Okay, I'll do that right away.
<ScottK> AstralJava: I'm just trying to figure out how you satisfied them at this point.
<AstralJava> ScottK: By downloading from sid.
<ScottK> AstralJava: OK.  One of the major reasons for using pbuilder is to make sure that depends can be satisfied from within the archive.  I guess we just clean it up from here.
<dholbach> looking at the amount of dups we'll make a bunch of people happy with that :)
<AstralJava> ScottK: Sure, I understand that. I just came to this process for the first time, so I didn't realize early enough to file similar bugs for the dependencies, which couldn't have been satisfied from the current archive.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> AstralJava: How about as penance you sign up as bug contact for the three packages and take on bug triage for them?
<ScottK> I'll ack the sync based on that and your test results.
<AstralJava> ScottK: As you wish, my Master. :)
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> AstralJava: Still waiting for your comment in the bug.
<AstralJava> ScottK: Yep, writing it as we spea^W^W^W^Wtype.
<ScottK> OK.
<AstralJava> ScottK: okay, attached pbuilder build log for version 0.22-3 for python-gammu, and some testing reports for gammu.
<AstralJava> ScottK: Please let me know what further information is needed.
* ScottK looks
<AstralJava> Btw. how does one sign up as a bug contact?
<AstralJava> Oh nevermind, I can go to #u-bugs for this.
<geser> AstralJava: do go the Overview page for that source package and select "Subscribe to bug mail"
<AstralJava> geser: Thanks! ;) Was just reasoning it out myself too. :)
<ScottK> soren or Hobbsee: Would you please ack Bug #150587?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150587 in gammu "FreezeException for gammu 1.13.0 from sid" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150587
<Hobbsee> StevenK: can
<AstralJava> ScottK: Okay, subscribed to all three packages as the bug contact. :) Now how 'bout my absolution?
<ScottK> Done.  Just keep up with the bugs...
<StevenK> Oh, I so can't.
<AstralJava> ScottK: Thank you! :) And thanks to dholbach and Hobbsee as well, for putting up with me and taking care of the packages.
<StevenK> I'm fighting to keep my eyes open, I just want to see virtualbox-ose-modules out of NEW.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you think i'm any better?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I never said that, I just pointed out I'm fairly useless at this point.
<ScottK> Given that we already have the new wammu and python-gammu uploaded, we pretty much have to take gammu too, so whichever of Hobbsee/StevenK would rubber stamp it, I'd appreciate it.
<StevenK> ScottK: Based on that, I rubber stamp it here. I'm too tired to find Firefox
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<StevenK> ScottK: No problem
<ScottK> dholbach: Bug #150587 is back over to you/UUS.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150587 in gammu "FreezeException for gammu 1.13.0 from sid" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150587
<dholbach> ScottK: gracias
<AstralJava> Thanks again, ScottK, dholbach & StevenK!
<StevenK> No problem
<ScottK> AstralJava: No problem.  Please keep on top of these packages so I don't regret it.
<AstralJava> ScottK: Will do.
<ScottK> doko: ia32-libs debdiff (less the binary files are different cruft) is here: http://kitterman.com/ubuntu/ia32-debdiff
<pkern> ScottK: Back.
<ScottK> Hi.
* ScottK is waiting for doko to look at the ia32-libs debdiff.
<doko> ScottK: looks ok, I want to check for one or two more packages, so please could you delay the upload until tomorrow?
<ScottK> doko: Sure.  I'm currently waiting on \sh_away to review the new WINE upload, so I think tomorrow would be fine.
<ScottK> doko: Will you upload it then when you are done?
<doko> ScottK: yes, I can do this
<ScottK> doko: Sounds good.
<ScottK> doko: I'd appreciate it if you ping me after you upload it so I can deal with WINE then.
<ScottK> pkern: If you have time, please dive in and fix bugs...
<bddebian> ScottK: Man, is there ever anyone in -mentors? :-)
<ScottK> bddebian: I've had limited success with it.  Most of the Debian uploads I've gotten were through DD's working on a team.
<pkern> ScottK: I suspect lib/Mail/SpamAssassin/Plugin/Razor2.pm:169 to be the right place for such a fix.
<bddebian> Well the games team doesn't exactly seem to have an abundance of DD's either :-(
<ScottK> pkern: My Perl is nil, so I'd say if you think so, go for it....
<pkern> ScottK: I don't know which directory would be the right one wrt spamassassin.
<ScottK> pkern: I guess it would depend on who started spamassassin.  I think it should go in $USER space is called by an individual user and /Root if called by the system (running as spamd).  That's a bit of a guess though.
<pkern> I don't think that /root is a valid location for a spamassassin process launched by the MTA.
<ScottK> pkern: Then were?
<pkern> It would not be obvious at least.
<ScottK> There is no /home/spamd
* pkern looks for a /var/log/spamassassin
<ScottK> pkern: Another option would be just to force razor to use their syslog option and the problem solves itself....
<ScottK> Actually the more I think about it, I like that idea.
<pkern> Does spamassassin use syslog already?
<pkern> At least spamassassin run as a user should not globber the syslog, that could even be inaccessible for him.
* ScottK doesn't recall, but razor has an option for it.
* ScottK looks
<pkern> Yes it does.
<pkern> Point is: if spamd already uses syslog then razor should do that, too.
<pkern> But we would need to hack the spamassassin plugin for that I'd guess.
<ScottK> pkern: libsyslog-perl is a recommends for SA.
<ScottK> Err libsys-syslog-perl
<ScottK> Yeah Perl naming conventions.
<pkern> rofl
<pkern> vim `which spamd`
<pkern> "not" [new file] 
<pkern> :next
<pkern> "found" [new file] 
<pkern> spamd has a syslog option, yes.
<pkern> And it seems to be the default, but that's what looking at the code tells me, might be wrong.
<ScottK> pkern: I think it's used if installed, but as a recommends, it may or may not be there.
<ScottK> it being the libsys-syslog-perl package.
<ScottK> pkern: Without having studied things in detail, I think the "right" answer is to move libsys-syslog-perl from recommends to depends and then force razor to use syslog, but not < 2 weeks before a release.
<ScottK> pkern: On another note: Are you interested in sponsoring packages from Ubuntu people in Debian?
<pkern> ScottK: Yep.
<geser> Hi bddebian!
<ScottK> bddebian: pkern is a DD ^^^
<pkern> ScottK: But as you might know packages in Debian have distinct maintainers.
<pkern> ScottK: So no free-for-all culture. ;)
<ScottK> pkern: Yep.  bddebian has a new package he's trying to get in.
<pkern> Aye.
<ScottK> pkern: Since he's apparently MIA right now, his package is http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=lordsawar
<bddebian> Heya geser
<pkern> ScottK: That's an abuse of the MIA term :-P
<bddebian> Wow, I didn't know pkern was a DD too. Sheesh :-)
<pkern> And dsc links are more appreciated, hah. :-P
<ScottK> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/lordsawar/lordsawar_0.0.3-1.dsc
<pkern> bddebian: MOTU wouldn't have been easy otherwise ;-p
<ScottK> bddebian: He got the DD quantity discount.
<bddebian> pkern: We're not cheap but we're easy ;-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: groan.
<bddebian> :'-(
* pkern laught about the "network play is currently broken" in the long description.
<pkern> bddebian: No need for the XS- prefix anymore and the homepage URL does not need to be stated in the long description (anymore, too). But those are no hard critica (yet).
<bddebian> Well I was considering not even shipping the binary for it but thought if someone was interested maybe they could help fix it ;-)
<pkern> bddebian: So you think we wanted broken stuff in the archives? Thanks for your trust in Debian. :-P
<pkern> s/wanted/want/
<pkern> Something is eating my 2D performance and I suspect it's the missing fglrx module.
<pkern> bddebian: It's not even in Ubuntu. ;)
<bddebian> No but both the descript and the man page state that it's broken :-)
<bddebian> pkern: Aye, I was trying to start with Debian :-)
<bddebian> Now I'm wondering why.. ;-P
<ScottK> bddebian: Right now it's the right thing to be doing.
<pkern> ScottK: If there is a certain quality, of course.
<ScottK> Sure.
<bddebian> What are you trying to say? :-)
<pkern> bddebian: So it has a usable n-player mode for local play?
<bddebian> n-player?
<pkern> It still builds on my Debian server ;)
<ScottK> Generally I work stuff into Ubuntu first if I can (depending on where it is in the release cycle) and then push it to Debian, but if Ubuntu is not accepting new packages, I go straight to Debian.
<pkern> Bah my lappy is hell slow.
<pkern> up 6 days...
* pkern is curious if it survived the kernel updates within that time.
<pkern> bddebian: The dpkg version in Ubuntu is annoying as a DD. ;)
<pkern> bddebian: Like "Heh, I don't know Homepage!".
<ScottK> pkern: What's it running?  If it's Gutsy, the answer is yes.
<ScottK> pkern: We don't have the one that has been taught that yet.
<pkern> ScottK: Well I've cryptoroot on Gutsy, yes.
<bddebian> pkern: Aye, but I have built it in both Gutsy and unstable
<ScottK> OK.  Gutsy's had kernel updates in the last 6 days.
<pkern> bddebian: It's currently building on gutsy too.
<pkern> But looking at the build kills gnome-terminal off.
<pkern> bddebian: Looks nice and clean, congrats.
<bddebian> pkern: What arch are you on?
<pkern> /usr/share/games/lordsawar/music/music.xml: The file is not obfuscated, attempting to read it....
<pkern> Haha
<pkern> bddebian: amd64 FWIW.
<bddebian> It may fail
<bddebian> I only know for sure that it works on i386 though supposedly it runs on others.  Though I don't think the amd64 patch will be in until 0.0.4.  I have to talk to Ben about that
<pkern> bddebian: While playing the game?
<bddebian> Did it start for you?
<pkern> bddebian: Yep.
<bddebian> Oh, excellent
<pkern> And it built both on Debian/amd64 as on Gutsy/amd64
<pkern> Whyever people just cannot be portable.
<pkern> Maybe it will fail on arm or $other_random_Debian_release_arch.
<bddebian> He tries and he's very open to patches just doesn't have access to all archs
<bddebian> Plus the codebase started from freelords so he's doing a lot of re-writing
<pkern> bddebian: Fire and forget for me? ;)
<bddebian> heh
* ScottK imagines playing lordsawar on S390.
<bddebian> hah
<pkern> ScottK: Over X forwarding :-P
<pkern> ScottK: As you won't get a local console.
<ScottK> Right.  Well I guess the arch list ought to be written carefully for Debian...
<pkern> ScottK: It WILL be built for s390.
<\sh> scottk: could you give me the link again for wine?
<ScottK> \sh: http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/experimental/wine_0.9.46-0ubuntu1.dsc
<ScottK> \sh: I think you'll need the new ia32-libs if you are on a 64 bit arch too: http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/experimental/ia32-libs_2.1ubuntu3.dsc
<\sh> ScottK, I'm not...and I can't test anything on amd64 anymore :(
<pkern> bddebian: building for i386, will upload it afterwards, thank you for your contribution to Debian</katie>
<ScottK> \sh: No problem.  Just wanted to make sure you had it if you needed it.  The upload for the ia32-libs is already planned for tomorrow (it adds openssl0.9.8)
<pkern> Those refreshes are unbearable. I need at least a X11 restart for fglrx. And that's the suggestion for >R5xx users on laptops. Bah.
<pkern> I won't recommend gutsy to any fglrx-needing laptop users.
<\sh> ScottK, /me needs a new employer with amd64 hw ;) or new sponsored hw ;)
<ScottK> \sh: Good luck with that.
<ScottK> ;-)
<pkern> \sh: Try Canonical? ;)
<pkern> bigon: That ITP is not exactly nicely put. ;)
<\sh> pkern, and what should I do there? ,-)
<\sh> pkern, honestly, I don't think canonical will pay me 60k buks for testing wine on amd64 ,->
<bigon> pkern: ?
<pkern> bigon: build-depends should not be multiline
<pkern> bigon: Depends shouldn't neither.
<ScottK> pkern: Did you mean bddebian?
<bigon> pkern: booth lool and sjoerd (for the telepathy packages) do like that
<pkern> ScottK: Nope.
<ScottK> K
<pkern> bigon: Then I need to fetch a new lintian.
* ScottK sits back down in the corner.
<pkern> bigon: I don't get http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tmultiline-field.html then -- I don't find the check in that version of lintian anymore. *cough*
<pkern> Oh sure it's still there.
<pkern> In fields.
<pkern> bddebian: So if I haven't failed: Cheers.
<pkern> bigon: I guess they also like cdbs? :-P
<bigon> :p
<pkern> bddebian: Oh and welcome to the NEW queue then if it's accepted.
<bddebian> pkern: Thanks man, though I had a desktop update I should have uploaded first ;-)
<pkern> Too late, ya know.
<pkern> bigon: W: gnome-nds-thumbnailer: binary-without-manpage gnome-nds-thumbnailer
<ScottK> Well with that done that pretty much reduces the fun on #debian-mentors to watching kmos upset people by trying to repeatedly hijack packages.
<pkern> ScottK: To hijack packages where? In Debian?
<StevenK> Well, at least he's moved on. Twitch.
<bddebian> ScottK: :-)
<bddebian> Is the NEW queue visible on Debian?
<broonie> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<ScottK> pkern: Yes.  He has several packages he's uploaded to mentors that are updates to other people's packages.  He doesn't seem to understand (despite repeated explanations) that it's not done that way in Debian.
<ScottK> This is not a great suprise given his history here.
<StevenK> ScottK: Hah. Indeed not.
<pkern> bddebian: I guess I won't get the mail from katie but the games team and you will.
<broonie> (you can't see the actual pacakges in case there are legal issues.)
<pkern> bddebian: So if there is anything wrong just tell me. ;)
<bddebian> pkern: Will do, thanks again!
<bddebian> broonie: Thx
<bigon> pkern: yeah I know about the man page, but the exec doesn't take any options so I don't think it's a big issue
<Hobbsee> ScottK: still, way better there than here.
<broonie> Don't say Ubuntu doesn't contribute things back to Debian!
* Hobbsee snorts
<Hobbsee> broonie: indeed!  we contribute back people who arent exactly an asset!
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Absolutely.
<ScottK> As slong as he doesn't start bragging about his awesome contributions to Ubuntu on Debian channels, I'm happy.
<ScottK> slong/long
<StevenK> Oh $DEITY, he probably would.
<Hobbsee> well, the others will see that he's on crack
<Hobbsee> so should just disregard it
<pkern> bigon: How is it used?
<pkern> bigon: Is it registered with gnome anywhere to handle nautilus file listings or such stuff?
<bigon> pkern: yep
<bigon> like other thumbnailer
<bddebian> Hobbsee: hehe
<bigon> pkern: see the schemas file
<Hobbsee> ScottK: actually, he'd probably say tha the tried to contribute to ubuntu, and that his fixes got ignored/rejected, and that it's an impossible place to contribute to, so he came to debian.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: that seems the far more likely option.
<Hobbsee> and that he was doing right all the time, but that they decided to hate him, etc, etc, etc.
<pkern> Where and how?
<ScottK> At least bddebian's package got uploaded first, so ritual suicide (if kmos had gotten his uploaded first) is no long a risk for him.
<ScottK> long/longer
<Hobbsee> although, obviously baby must think his work is OK, to be doing bits of sponsoring for it
<Hobbsee> (for debian games, iirc)
<ScottK> His problem isnt' that everything he does is $NOTVERYGOOD, just that the volume is so high and the fraction so small.
<Hobbsee> meh.  oh well.  now we only have to worry about the autosynx
<bddebian> ScottK: Heh, amen :)
<Hobbsee> er, autosync
<Hobbsee> ScottK: although he cant thrash our changes that way
<bddebian> Oh that's funny, Debian is easer to contribute to than Ubuntu?? Hahaha
<Hobbsee> ScottK: compiledkernel is looking for you, btw.
<ScottK> ??
<Hobbsee> ScottK: forums.  he's just asked me about you on irc.
<pkern> bigon: I would suggest priority: extra
<sladen> pkern: I was for a moment you were thinking about a custom distro with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Slab
<pkern> bigon: What's an emulator for these ROMs?
<pkern> sladen: That SLAB doesn't work on Ubuntu, too.
<pkern> sladen: ;)
<pkern> And libslab is weird.
<sladen> pkern: and wondering why the technical board had refused to ship an Ubuntu-based Suse lookalike
<pkern> Well I really like the fact that restricted-foo calls for you to enable fglrx.
<bigon> pkern: mmm yep extra seems a bettre priority
<pkern> But to what should I revert. Gentoo where I came from? ):
<bigon> pkern: I don't think there is a NDS atm
<pkern> bigon: Why are those thumbnailers shipped in /usr/bin instead of, say, /usr/lib/gnome-thumbnailers or even /usr/lib/gnome-{nds,raw}-thumbnailer?
<pkern> bigon: If they couldn't be run seperately?
<pkern> Hm. gnome-raw-thumbnailer has parameters to run it seperately.
<bigon> pkern: other thumbnailer are shipped in /usr/bin (/usr/bin/evince-thumbnailer, ...)
<pkern> evince-thumbnailer has a manpage
<pkern> bigon: I would say please make up one.
<bigon> pkern: ok I will do that
<pkern> bigon: That and the extra change should be enough to get this in.
<bddebian> Oh man, now I feel bad :-(  kaol was apparently looking at lordsawar for me.
<pkern> :-P
<pkern> He's probably more used to Games policy?
<pkern> bigon: NEWS is fun, and README doesn't deserve to be shipped, too.
<\sh> grmpf
<pkern> bigon: And while you're on it. It's `Vcs-Bzr', not `XS-Vcs-Bzr'.
<\sh> just to be sure, because I think I was disconnected...
<\sh> <\sh> anyone: do we support *.svg icons as app icons?
<\sh> <\sh> ScottK, the package itself looks sane and ok for me...I wonder if we support svg icons for installation in /usr/share/pixmaps but this scott r. could fix in no time
<ScottK> \sh: Thanks.
<pkern> I got 4 svgs in there.
<StevenK> pkern: I thought Vcs-Bzr was a Debian-ism at the moment due to the new dpkg?
<pkern> StevenK: Correct and I'm talking about a Debian package.
<\sh> pkern, which ones?
<StevenK> pkern: Fair enough, I'll be quiet.
<\sh> pkern, ubuntu.svg and gnome-logo-white.svg I have
<pkern> //usr/share/pixmaps/gnome-logo-white.svg, /usr/share/pixmaps/seahorse-applet.svg, /usr/share/pixmaps/ubuntu.svg, /usr/share/pixmaps/vim.svg, /usr/share/pixmaps/xscreensaver.svg
<pkern> I didn't count ubuntu.svg, but I did count gnome-logo-white.svg. Weird.
<\sh> ok..so it's supported...never realised that...
<\sh> ScottK, ok to upload (if I would have something to say ;))
<pkern> Well there are enough svgs in the icon themes already?
<pkern> It might be a Gnome-ism. ;)
<\sh> if gnome is supporting svgs...kde will support it, too ;)
<ScottK> YokoZar1: Doko is going to upload ia32-libs tomorrow and I'll upload WINE after that.
* pkern hates this "we implement it twice in different UI toolkits" stuff.
<pkern> Diversity is good, duplicate work isn't.
<\sh> pkern, tell the gnomes to use qt as widget kit ,-) *runs*
<pkern> Heh I won't, be sure of that.
<pkern> qt with that bloody moc stuff.
<pkern> :-P
<pkern> gtkmm is much nicer. :-P
<\sh> pkern, at least I'm using both :)
<pkern> So, now it's time to get decent 2D performance again. Probably I should just recompile my kernel and maintain it on ppa.
<\sh> and in the moment I'm using gnome more then kde, because it feels more stable...but that's my personal feeling :)
<\sh> (regarding ubuntu that is)
* \sh needs a beer and something to smoke
* pkern goes crying.
<pkern> The kernel update broke the network cards.
<pkern> Yay, thanks for that.
<pkern> I somehow feel that Gutsy is "not for me"(tm).
<pkern> Sorry to say \:
<pochu> kernel update? have I missed anything?
<\sh> pkern, which nic type?
<zul> could it be that a udev update broke your network?
<jussi01> from what i hear and experience there is lots broken on gutsy atm... :(
<jussi01> especially the ati driver... grrr
<ScottK> Except for one kernel regression on ancient hardware, it's all working good for me.
* \sh had some problems during the upgrades from one day to another...and reinstalling fixed those problems...I wonder what it is
<pkern> \sh: tg3
* jussi01 hates the opensource ati driver atm
<pkern> WLAN disappeared too FWIW.
<pkern> Hm no actually it's there, just deactivated.
<\sh> pkern, hmmm....I just upgraded today a machine with a tg3 nic without problems....
<pkern> Hm. I got a nice "HAL FAILED!" message after logging in.
<\sh> pkern, I would guess it's NM+(HAL/DBUS/UDEV) magic
<pkern> Probably that in conjunction with n-m
<\sh> pkern, try dhclient3 ,-)
<pkern> The quit button is broken too.
<\sh> ah....the end of netware is near...I can feel it
<pkern> \sh: That's how I just got into the screen session again.
<pkern> I probably could get rid of this cryptoroot stuff.
<pkern> In GB you get 5y in jail if you don't tell them the keys.
<pkern> I suspect that Germany will get something similar.
<\sh> pkern, when this will be established in germany, I'll can't remember anything, suddenly ;)
<ScottK> Oddly enough, I don't think we have that one in the US yet.  Surprising we are "behind" in that area.
<norsetto> \sh too many sigarettes ....
<pkern> A HAL restart "solved" it. But even after a reboot this was needed again.
<pkern> \sh: You will get enough time to think about it.
<pkern> (Or even more if you have something compromising on your harddisk, like... bomb plans or something.)
<\sh> pkern, hehe..I'm waiting for my charge using nmap and stuff and distributing it actively ;-)
<pkern> (So YOU get the decide. In Soviet Russia the party decides for you.=
<pkern> \sh: And MP3 codecs and CSS deciphers...
<pkern> I want to get out of this country. Seriously.
<\sh> yeah yeah...let me add "bombs, /bin/laden, islam, atomic kittens, dope, drugs" to it...so it can be read by stasi-schaeuble ,-)
<\sh> wait...the door bell rings ,-)
<\sh> luck...just my landlord ,-)
<\sh> pkern, are you still at freiburg?
<pkern> \sh: I never was. Karlsruhe.
<\sh> pkern, I just saw an email addr from you at uni-freiburg...
<\sh> hmmm
<Nightrose> \sh: you should join pkern, sven and sput for a beer
<pkern> \sh: That must be someone else.
<Nightrose> and me ;-)
<\sh> Nightrose, when? you need to write your test tomorrow ,)
<Nightrose> hehe yea - after that
<\sh> Nightrose, tomorrow? no problem :)
<Nightrose> *lol*
<Nightrose> then I have to work
<Nightrose> next week?
<\sh> Nightrose, sure :)
<\sh> wednesday, la cage ;)
<\sh> we can play some pool too :)
<Nightrose> sounds good \sh
<pkern> \sh: Where are you from?
<\sh> pkern, I was born in dortmund, moved to cologne, worked all over germany, and now I'm living in au/rhein ;) working still in ka-durlach :)
<pkern> Au am Rhein. Never heard of that one, sorry :-P
<pkern> But near Rastatt, so nearby.
<\sh> pkern, yeah...durmersheim :)
<pkern> Hah (:
<\sh> nice area . just 2.5km to the rhine :)
<pkern> Does deep freeze affect us now?
<pkern> \sh: Well I come from a place near Strasbourg, so it's the same. Viele Baggerseen. :D
<\sh> pkern, haha :) yepp :)
<pkern> (So it was a decision between Freiburg and Karlsruhe, FWIW.)
<\sh> Nightrose, good thing is, from monday on I'm on holiday for 3 weeks :)
<Nightrose> wohooo
<ScottK> pkern: Not for Universe packages.  You are encouraged to concentrate on bug fixing, but upload what you've got.
<ScottK> pkern: Please don't break stuff though ;-)
<Nightrose> pkern: how does wednesday (17.) sound to you? I still have to check back with sven and sput - and maybe nadermann - though
<pkern> Nightrose: O-Phase?
<Nightrose> pkern: ahhh too bad - then we will have to do it later
<Nightrose> \sh: ^
<\sh> what about this weekend?
<Nightrose> have to work
<pkern> *cough*
<Nightrose> hmm sunday night would be ok though
<\sh> Nightrose, pkern: please pick a day and time, I'll be there :)
<pkern> ScottK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9827371/ceferino_0.97.5-1ubuntu1.debdiff <-- Does the desktop file look ok to you?
<ScottK> pkern: I've no idea about desktop files.
<\sh> pkern, looks sane
<pkern> \sh: Thanks; ScottK: me neither \:
<\sh> pkern, desktop-file-validate helps, too :)
<ScottK> IIRC, asisak know about .desktop files ^^^
<pkern> \sh: Does that validate categories?
<pkern> And do we translate desktop files?
<bigon> pkern: I've added the man page and change the priority, same url (http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gnome-nds-thumbnailer/gnome-nds-thumbnailer_1.0.2-1.dsc)
<pkern> "A desktop file" is probably better than "no desktop file".
<pkern> bigon: Mentors allows reuploads with the same version number? Nice. (:
<\sh> pkern, I don't think so...because categories are free to change from distro to distro...but it helps to write sane .desktop files at all...
<bigon> pkern: yep :)
<pkern> bigon: Thanks for the manpage. The .IP wasn't needed, though.
<pkern> bigon: Another fire and forget. o_O Uploaded.
<pkern> Another Debian upload that needs sponsorship?
<bigon> pkern: http://bugs.debian.org/444877 will comes soon :p
<DktrKranz> pkern, can I bother you in the next few days for that? :)
<pkern> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacity/+bug/149308 <-- Isn't this a violation of the Gnome HIG they propose here?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149308 in audacity "short description for audacity repeated in both name and description in k-menu " [Low,Confirmed] 
<pkern> DktrKranz: Mails to pkern@debian.org are appreciated then.
<pkern> But I dislike cdbs packages. :-P
<pkern> bigon: Aye.
<DktrKranz> that's not cdbs...but I'm waiting for my previous sponsor to answer...
<bigon> pkern: btw aren't you also a AM ?
<DktrKranz> I don't want to overtake his work
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I uploaded ivtools for Gutsy.  Waiting for an RM to release it.
<pkern> bigon: I'm currently inactive.
<pkern> bigon: In general: yes.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, thanks...already accepted IIRC
<ScottK> Cool.
<ScottK> Forgot I don't get the accept mail when it's your upload.
<pkern> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+subscribedbugs <-- That sucks. With "ivtools (Debian)" items included.
<ScottK> pkern: Agreed.  Thank the gods of LP who understand how we do our work better than we do that LP works that way.
<ScottK> </bitter>
<pkern> Probably a canned query would help.
* ScottK doesn't understand the point of including external tasks on the team subscribed list.
<YokoZar1> ScottK: Most excellent.  Thank you both.
<pkern> "dAniel hAhler" <-- That capitalisation sucks.
<AstralJava> LPS, the Lazy Pinkie Syndrome.
<YokoZar1> ScottK: doko: Serious question: should we release another ia32-libs just before release with the freshest possible packages?  I'm worried some 32 bit library will have some bug that got fixed that we didn't freshen.  Possibly a security one.
<ScottK> YokoZar1: I think we should check and see if anything important is missed.
<ScottK> YokoZar1: Doing it just because isn't, IMO, a good idea.
<pkern> E: Failed to fetch http://ubuntu-sourcedeps.philkern.de/pool/universe/a/apt-build/apt-build-build-depends_0.12.28_all.deb: Hash Sum mismatch
* pkern coughs.
<YokoZar1> So, just now I learned about the PowerPoint viewer application...
<YokoZar1> In Add/Remove Applications.
<pkern> Package apt-build version 0.12.28ubuntu1 has an unmet dep: Depends: libappconfig-perl (>= 1.5)
<pkern> Yay
* pkern likes auto-syncs
<ScottK> pkern: Then fix it I guess ...
<pkern> So could someone tell me where libappconfig-perl disappeared in Ubuntu?
<pkern> Soyuz doesn't tell me.
<pkern> Ah.
<pkern> Meep. s/libappconfig-perl/appconfig/ Sorry \:
* pkern fetches a lot of coffee.
<mehdi2> hi motu, what may cause an error like this: Release: Unable to find expected entry  main/source/Sources in Meta-index file (malformed Release file?)
<mehdi2> I'm running my repository and have setup it with reprepro
<geser> ScottK: a new clamav-data got uploaded to Debian unstable yesterday. Should we stay at the current version in gutsy (20070830.234900.4110) or try to sync it?
<pkern> !newbug
<ScottK> geser: Sync it.  Did we have a standing UVFe for that?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about newbug - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<geser> ScottK: afaik no, I filed a UVFe bug for the last sync
<ScottK> geser: OK.  Well file another one then I guess.
<ScottK> Let me know when and I'll at least give you the first ack.
<pkern> Is there a list of bugs to fix?
<ScottK> pkern: bugs.launchpad.net
<geser> ScottK: bug #150679
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150679 in clamav-data "[UVFe] [Sync request]  Sync clamav-data (20071007.022900.4491) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150679
* ScottK looiks
<ScottK> looks even
<ScottK> geser: Done.  Maybe soren will give it a 2nd ack ^^^
<soren> Sure, go ahead.
<soren> geser: ^^
<ScottK> soren: Are you going to mark that in the bug or do you want me to do it?
<soren> I wasn't going to, but now I've done it anyway :)
<bddebian> Goddamn, does anyone have a sense of humor anymore..
<bddebian> Oh, heya geser
<crimsun> wth?  humor?  bah!
<\sh> bddebian, humor? you? since when? ,-)
<bddebian> Heh, no kidding :-)
<bddebian> \sh: Are you kidding, ajmitch LOVES my "humor" ;-)
<ajmitch> oh sure I do
<\sh> bddebian, ajmitch just loves your humor, but I have to love you, I mentored you...you'll be my endless motu-love ;-)
<bddebian> heh :-)
<bddebian> \sh: You might not want to admit to that ;)
<\sh> bddebian, imagine, I would tell that to my fianc ;)
<bddebian> \sh: That's fine but you might not want to admit it to any Ubuntu or Debian people. :-)
<\sh> bddebian, right...this could cause "PC" discussions ;)
<slavi1> if I downloaded a source package from debian's repo ... I can just use pbuild on the dsc file?
<crimsun> pbuilder, yes.
<slavi1> thanks
<lamego> assuming you have pbuilder properly configured
* pkern loves looking at coredumps inline in the bug report.
<crimsun> that's my second favourite.  My most fav is the inlined dmesg.
<pkern> And the status: confirmed, assigned to: motu, Thank you for your bug report. boilerplate mails from dholbach. (:
* \sh needs to clean the damn living room....
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<bddebian> Later \sh
<pkern> bddebian: Could we get something like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-igd/+bug/133852 removed from Gutsy out of QA reasons?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133852 in linux-igd "[UNMETDEPS] [Gutsy]  Broken dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<DarkSun88> Salve
<geser> Hi DarkSun88
<pkern> bddebian: If so, could I just state it and subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<geser> pkern: yes
<geser> pkern: btw the debian package has the same problem
<pkern> geser: I know that.
<geser> but luckily the project is not dead (1.0 got released in february) any only needs a new maintainer
<pkern> There's #105165 open about that. Maybe that gets fixed for hardy ;)
<bddebian> pkern: Sorry, was at RL work for a sec, what's up?
<pkern> bddebian: Cleared up already :-P
<bddebian> OK, sorry man
<pkern> bddebian: I'm sorry too :-P
<pkern> Does anyone have some bugs to fix/upload for me?
<bddebian> pkern: There's a whole launchpad full of them ;-P
<pkern> pwc-source - source for the Philips webcams pwc driver
<pkern> Now that is one one could catch subtle humour in.
<pkern> bddebian: Heh, any USABLE list of those?
<pkern> bddebian: I tried MOTU assignments, but that's weird.
<bddebian> pkern: You can look for the patch attached ones
<pkern> i.e. "tagged" patch?
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> This page has some nice quick links: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Bugs
<DktrKranz> pkern, patch tagged bugs are a small subset of http://tinyurl.com/39w2p3
<pkern> DktrKranz: Aye.
<geser> pkern: if you are bored you could check if guilt in gutsy is affected by CVE-2007-5207 (fixed in 0.27-1.2)
<ubotu> guilt 0.27 allows local users to overwrite arbitrary files via a symlink attack on a guilt.log.[PID]  temporary file. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5207)
<pkern> I already saw that Debian bug report some days ago.
<pkern> Hm.
<pkern> Is there a rmadison for Ubuntu?
<geser> pkern: yes
<pkern> geser: And yes. (Of course) it is affected.
<bddebian> We have madison, I didn't know about rmadison
<geser> rmadison -u ubuntu -s gutsy
<geser> works with devscripts from gutsy
<ScottK> pkern: Along those lines, there is also http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
<pkern> geser: Hm yeah documented in the manpage.
<pkern> geser: Thanks, I remembered such a thing.
<pkern> geser: First released with Gutsy, so I just patch that and upload, without caring about any "security team"?
<ScottK> pkern: Yes.
<ScottK> pkern: Make sure you reference the CVE in debian/changelog so the release manager understands to let it through.
<pkern> All my uploads today were accepted. (=
<pkern> Somebody is still working.
<bddebian> heh
<Kopfgeldjaeger> good night
<pochu> Night all.
<bddebian> pkern: Hey, I'm supposed to be maintainer for colorgcc in Debian but I don't think I have a sponsor anymore.  If I did some work on it would you mind taking a look at it at some point?
<pkern> geser: But the new patch is smaller.
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> hi bddebian
<pkern> bddebian: Mail to pkern@debian.org, best with the debdiff attached (and if you did not change anything outside debian/ please filterdiff it accordingly).
<bddebian> OK, thanks!
<pkern> geser: Is there an Ubuntu bug open?
<slavi1> how do I add packages to the pbuilder chroot
<pkern> Need to get 330MB of archives. After unpacking 675MB will be used.
<geser> pkern: no
<pkern> Just for asciidoc xmlto, are you kidding me.
<pkern> geser: Done.
<geser> pkern: thanks
<slavi1> nvm, wrong problem
<pkern> geser: Next ;)
<geser> pkern: if you are seriously interested: tomcat5.5: CVE-2007-1355, CVS-2007-2449 and CVE-2007-2450
<ubotu> Multiple cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerabilities in the appdev/sample/web/hello.jsp example application in Tomcat 4.0.0 through 4.0.6, 4.1.0 through 4.1.36, 5.0.0 through 5.0.30, 5.5.0 through 5.5.23, and 6.0.0 through 6.0.10 allow remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the test parameter and unspecified vectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-1355)
<ubotu> Multiple cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerabilities in the (1) Manager and (2) Host Manager web applications in Apache Tomcat 4.0.0 through 4.0.6, 4.1.0 through 4.1.36, 5.0.0 through 5.0.30, 5.5.0 through 5.5.24, and 6.0.0 through 6.0.13 allow remote authenticated users to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via a parameter name to manager/html/upload, and other unspecified vectors. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-2450)
<pkern> Woah tomcat.
<pkern> geser: Don't be sadistic. ;)
<persia> Doesn't Debian have a solution for those CVEs in their tomcat?
<geser> fixed in 5.5.25-1
<ScottK> pkern: persia ^^ is another good person to ask about .desktop file validation, IIRC.
<geser> !info tomcat5.5 gutsy
<persia> Ah.  UVF.  Hrm.
<ubotu> tomcat5.5: Servlet and JSP engine. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.5.20-5ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 56 kB, installed size 368 kB
<persia> pkern: What about .desktop files?
<ScottK> Well if it's all bug fixes, I don't mine.
<ScottK> mine/mind
<persia> ScottK: It's only the CVE fixes & a permissions fix.
<ScottK> persia: Sounds like a good candidate for a UVFe to me.
<persia> pkern: See: taking tomcat isn't masochism :)
<ScottK> pkern: Process for this is do a test build and make sure it builds/installs.  If it's good file a sync request with the UVFe stuff added and subscribe motu-uvf.
<geser> ScottK: not merge?
* pkern is mildly pissed that his sourcedeps repo suddently doesn't work anymore.
<persia> Needs a merge: different control files
<ScottK> urr...
* ScottK didn't look.
<ScottK> Nevermind.
<ScottK> pkern...  Prepare the merge, test it, file UVFe and then upload after it's approved.  Sorry.
* ScottK is multitasking one too many things.
<ScottK> At least one too many.
<albert23> Would it still be possible to sync a new version of sensors-applet from Debian in Gutsy? This would solve bug 147188 It builds in the Gutsy pbuilder, installs and works fine.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147188 in sensors-applet "Sensors-applet report Core 2 Duo temp as A (Ampere)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147188
<ScottK> albert23: What's the version that fixes it?
* pkern hates people calling distclean in clean target.
<bddebian> I've noticed a lot that do it
<albert23> It's the current Debian unstable: 1.8.1+dfsg-1
<persia> What's wrong with distclean?
<ScottK> pkern: This is Ubuntu.  We don't 'hate' here.  We 'have a mild aversion to' or something squishy like that.
<bddebian> hahaha
* geser goes to bed and let pkern work on tomcat :)
<pkern> I guess it's even written in the Lintian check that you should change your "ignore failure stuff" to [...]  distclean if you already use it.
<persia> albert23: What's in the upstream changelog?
<pkern> persia: It's not guaranteed that you can build the package afterwards.
<pkern> persia: distclean is a maintainer utility.
<pkern> geser: *cough*
<ScottK> pkern: No you want the package to build.  You DD types are very picky.
<persia> pkern: It should be: "distclean" should mean "put it in a state to be distributed"
<pkern> ScottK: No I just fixed it and it broke down.
<ScottK> No/Now..
* ScottK is kidding.
<pkern> persia: Now there could be make dist hooks which do exactly that.
<pkern> gnome-voice-control that is, not tomcat.
<persia> pkern: Did it break when you changed -make distclean to make distclean?
<pkern> persia: No.
<pkern> persia: It already contained a check similar to the [ ! -f foobar.
<pkern> ScottK: It's a pity that you Ubuntu folks aren't that picky. :-P
<bddebian> heh
<persia> pkern: It's because we just NMU it rather than complaining :)
* ScottK steps quietly out of the line of fire and hopes no one notices.
<pkern> persia: You don't have something like a NMU I was told. :-P
<pkern> And this particular package isn't even in Debian.
<albert23> persia: a number of cosmetic changes and a bug fix for a wrong sensor type
<ScottK> albert23: If a patch can be pulled out for the wrong sensor type, that could definitely be included.
<persia> albert23: Hmm..  Cosmetic changes are tricky.
<albert23> persia: something like this "38 C" instead of "38C"
<persia> pkern: Ubuntu doesn't have "NMU", but it also doesn't have "Maintainers", so if a package has an issue, the discoveree is expected to just upload rather than complain.
<ScottK> Doesn't stop a lot of people from complaining though.
<persia> ScottK: True.
<pkern> persia: Yeah but well, I fix something and the clean just breaks on me which causes me to unpack it just AGAIN and copying the files over.
<pkern> ScottK: Thanks. :-P
<persia> pkern: Ah.  That's annoying.
<pkern> Hm ok I was wrong about distclean.
<pkern> I meant maintainer-clean wrt semantics.
<bddebian> Time to go, later gang.  Thanks again pkern
<pkern> bddebian: np, cya.
<pkern> So ready for tomcat.
<pkern> What tools are available for a merge?
<ScottK> pkern: http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
<persia> pkern: http://merges.ubuntu.com/t/tomcat5.5/
<pkern> rofl@"this deleted everything in cwd"
<ScottK> At least it warns you...
<ScottK> Gotta run.  See you all later.
<slavi1> what's the option to debuild to not give a key?
<persia> slavi1: -us
<slavi1> ty
<pkern> And -uc or does -us imply it?
<slavi1> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<slavi1> nope :(
<persia> slavi1: Try -us -uc
<slavi1> yeap, uc worked
<persia> pkern: -uc is no changes file, but I don't think -us implies it.
<slavi1> checking for XML... configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old.  Make sure it is in your PATH or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable to the full path to pkg-config.
<slavi1> that is a problem with requirements, right?
<fredix> hi, there a problem with libgstreamer0.10-ruby1.8
<pkern> persia: Eh. -uc is `unsigned changes'.
<pkern> persia: Not `no changes'.
<persia> pkern: Ah.  Thanks.
<slavi1> is it possible for pbuilder to save any new packages it downloads when building so that it doesn't download same stuff when building packages?
<pkern> Yeah for tomcat failing to build from source.
<pkern> So I WILL have to get my hands dirty wrt Java.
<pkern> Bah.
<pkern> Can I be bothered? 1782 problems (1 error, 1781 warnings)
<persia> pkern: You may not need to dig that deeply.  The maintainer usually tests also against Ubuntu, so it may just need a little control file tweaking.
<pkern> "The method clear() is undefined for the type IntrospectionUtils"
<pkern> I love such issues.
<slavi1> man, building stuff with pbuilder is no cake :(
<pkern> Is is.
<pkern> s/Is/It/
<slavi1> but what happens when the package generated doesn't install cleanly because it tries to overwrite files from other packages?
<pkern> Then it's not pbuilder's fault?
<persia> slavi1: That's a bug in the generated package.
<slavi1> persia: what is best way to resolve such things? but editing the deb file or is there a "better" way?
<slavi1> and my room being 30C is not helping :(
<persia> slavi1: Don't install the offending file
<slavi1> persia: right, dpkg doesn't allow it, but how would I properly fix the package?
<pkern> Now there is a public static void clear() in the offending class. Don't know how to fix that lookup issue.
<persia> slavi1: Make sure the install: target in debian/rules doesn't install a conflicting file.
<slavi1> I see
<slavi1> ty
<pkern> geser, persia: http://durotan.0x539.de/~pkern/tomcat5.5/ -- Build breaks with one error and I cannot tell why (see the provided build log and look for ERROR).
<persia> pkern: This is a debdiff against Debian?
<pkern> persia: Yes. The other one would be huge.
<pkern> But I could produce it nevertheless.
<pkern>  2444 files changed, 59738 insertions(+), 33861 deletions(-)
<persia> pkern: No, debdiff debian candidate is the easiest to review.  Your build-deps change a lot more than I'd expect.  You might dig into that a bit: perhaps there's something missing.
<pkern> No fun. ;)
<pkern> persia: Those are the build-deps of the last Ubuntu revision but ok, I'll look over them again.
<persia> pkern: Did the build-deps change between the two Debian revisions?  Last Ubuntu isn't always right.
<persia> From the changelog, it looks like the only build-dep changes should be s/xsltproc// and s/ecj-bootstrap/ecj/
<persia> Um.  Rather s//xsltproc/
<pkern> They changed from libcommons-modeler-java (>= 1.1-1) to libcommons-modeler-java (>= 2.0)
<pkern> Now the failure didn't LOOK like that, but well.
<persia> pkern: That sounds significant.  Do we have libcommons-modeler-java (>= 2.0)?
<pkern> libcommons-modeler-java |      1.1-9 | gutsy/universe | source, all
<pkern> Now 1.1 => 2.0 sounds significant, too.
<persia> pkern: Luckily the only rdepends is tomcat: it may be possible to upgrade both (I'm not -uvf)
<slavi1> I give up :(
<pkern> At least no Ubuntu changes.
<slavi1> gdl doesn't want to get build
<albert23> It looks like I got the backport for sensors-applet. It works on to systems and downgrading to the original Gutsy version gives the bug again.
<pkern> Oh well, that package has *tons* of warnings.
<persia> albert23: backport?
<persia> pkern: errors as well, or just warnings?
<pkern> persia: Looks good now, sorry.
<pkern> persia: Warnings.
<albert23> persia: that's what ScottK asked for?
<persia> pkern: Excellent.  Java developers on gutsy will appreciate the API bump.
<albert23> persia: ScottK: albert23: If a patch can be pulled out for the wrong sensor type, that could definitely be included.
<persia> albert23: Ah.  Excellent.  You'll want to populate the bug with your patch or a debdiff for the new candidate.
<pkern> Hah. "DEBSMTP_PASS". So I should keep that in the environment all the time or what.
<albert23> persia: It is now a debian package. I guess I need to make an Ubuntu package first?
<pkern> Hm probably fiordland will do
<persia> albert23: Are you using 1.8-1 directly, or a patch for 1.7-1?
<pkern> Ah no, I don't have SMTP here at university. *gnarf*
<albert23> persia: I did both, but I thought you and Scottk didn't like the 1.8 package?
<persia> albert23: I'm not authoritative, but ScottK is, so only his opinion matters :)
<albert23> That's why I did the backport attempt
<persia> albert23: In that case, you'll want to apply your patch to 1.7-1, adjust the maintainer in debian/control, and add a changelog entry.  That should give you an Ubuntu package.
<albert23> persia: OK. Should I subscribe anyone to the bug to get the patch noticed?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-09
<persia> albert23: motu-uvf & ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<persia> albert23: Sorry.  Backported path.  Just -sponsors.  My mistake.
<persia> s/path/patch/
<albert23> persia: OK. The upstream author is active in the bug, so I will try to get his feedback on it first.
<pkern> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcommons-modeler-java/+bug/150751
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150751 in libcommons-modeler-java "[gutsy]  UVFe for libcommons-modeler-java 2.0.1-3" [Undecided,New] 
<persia> pkern: You might mention in the bug that there are no other rdepends, although it may not matter.
* pkern thinks that this install log requirement is silly.
* pkern has now Tomcat running on his laptop!
<ScottK> pkern: You I would believe if you say that.  Others I want to see the install log.
<ScottK> pkern: There's other stuff this bug needs too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<pkern> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomcat5.5/+bug/150755
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150755 in tomcat5.5 "[gutsy]  UVFe for tomcat5.5 5.5.25-1" [Undecided,New] 
<pkern> *cough*
<pkern> IMHO the information in the tomcat5.5 has to be sufficient.
<pkern> ScottK: You mean the diffstat and the changelog diff?
<pkern> Luckily enough there's no ChangeLog.
<minghua> I would say that's unlucky.
<minghua> Because the point of the changelog diff is to explain what the changes are for.
<pkern> minghua: One step less to do.
<pkern> minghua: Well, either you let it through or not.
<pkern> There is no such "review all changes" on this package.
<minghua> Well, I'm not a motu-uvf member, so I'm just commenting on the side.
<pkern> It helps that I don't care about that package. :-P
<pkern> 87 files changed, 14309 insertions(+), 14877 deletions(-)
<pkern> Yeah, the diffstat was even truncated.
<pkern> ScottK: I won't do that for Tomcat because it's just useless.
<ScottK> pkern: Which won't you do?
<ScottK> pkern: I acked the libwhatever modeler java one.
<ScottK> You'll need a 2nd ack.  zul is probably your best bet this time of day.
* minghua looks at bug 150740 and wonders if dholbach has talked with Kmos.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150740 in galculator "[Gutsy]  Galculator v1.3.1 is out" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150740
<lifeless> whats the easiest way to get pdebuild to pin an other_repo before the official repo ?
<lifeless> oh hmm, never mind
<DaveMorris> hey guys, I've got a sharedobject-in-library-directory-not-actually-a-shlib error from lintian, I know the SONAME needs to be set when its compiled.  But since the build script is nasty and mainly hand made, can it be done as separate commands after the library has been built?
<pkern> zul: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libcommons-modeler-java/+bug/150751
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150751 in libcommons-modeler-java "[gutsy]  UVFe for libcommons-modeler-java 2.0.1-3" [Undecided,New] 
<ScottK> minghua: Thanks.  I notice he forgot to subscribe motu-uvf so I'd not have gotten the chance to say no if you hadn't mentioned it.
<pwnguin> is there a program capable of breaking a patch out into a sort of "tree"?
<pwnguin> like how eclipse and friends will put blocks of code into a + structure
<minghua> ScottK: You're welcome, although I'm actually sorry to have bothered you with such things.
<ScottK> minghua: I have to get my fun somewhere.
<ScottK> :-)
<minghua> So rejecting stupid UVFe requests qualifies as "fun"? :-)
<ScottK> Pretty sad, isn't it.
* ScottK wonders off to read his daughter a bedtime story.
<bddebian> Heya folks
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<ScottK> What damage can we do while it's just us old farts around?
<bddebian> mwuhahaha
<ScottK> Tricky changing your nick on OFTC.  They'll never know who you are now.
* bddebian looks for some random package to upload
<bddebian> Heh, I didn't even notice that
<bddebian> OK, so lordsawar is in new now.  How many months will that sit there? :-)
<ScottK> bddebian: It's been running a couple of weeks lately.  YMMV.
<ScottK> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/bugs/150765 is probably worth a UVFe.  I doubt the filer knows how to do one.  That might be a worthwhile effort.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150765 in fluxbox "WISHLIST: Fluxbox1.0.0 Final included in Gutsy" [Undecided,New] 
<bddebian> Hmm
<bddebian> Well I see a few on NEW that have been there a couple of months
<ScottK> Most of those appear to be there for a reason.
<ScottK> I just had one go through in less than two weeks.
<bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> good morning
<ScottK> bddebian: Same with another I was keeping an eye on.
<bddebian> OK
<pkern> bddebian: ~two weeks
<ScottK> bddebian: Longer if you complain about it.
<pkern> ScottK: Normally not. ;)
<pkern> Longer if there are problems, though.
<ScottK> pkern: Shhhh.  You'll spoil my fun.
<pkern> ScottK: FUD about Debian? :-P
<ScottK> No, just normal Ubuntu tormenting of bddebian.  Something completely different.
<pkern> That sounds like hel..
<pkern> *hell, not Helsinki...
<ScottK> pkern: He's old and cranky like me, so I'm pretty suire it's OK.
<pkern> He's got a `fanclub'? o_O
<pkern> He's 37, that's already `old'? ;)
* pkern can't tell.
* pkern considers Soyuz buggy.
<pkern> There is no need to list tomcat5.5 uploaded to PPA under +packages and link to gutsy's package pages.
<pkern> No heart attack because of that yet but well.
<pkern> Not healthy neither.
<ScottK> pkern: PPA is a new thing and yes, it's buggy.  Right now if an orig.tar.gz has been uploaded to a PPA, Soyuz will think it has it when doing a sync of a new upstream version and then later on discover it's not in the archive an fail the sync.
<pkern> I heared that one, yes.
<pkern> That's high on my fun scale, too.
<ScottK> pkern: It seems to be old for around here.
<pkern> It looks like PPA is not decoupled enough. :-P
<pkern> But well, it's LP.
<pkern> `Create a product for every OS project, stupid!'
<ScottK> Sure, that won't take much time.
<bddebian> pkern: How'd you know that? :-)
<pkern> bddebian: Behind MOTU know all about you, I'd guess.
<bddebian> scary
<bddebian> Hey, if upstream is dead is it still bad form to modify the source directly in Debian?
<pkern> xtknight: Your gnome-art patch is filthy.
<ScottK> Bad form, but not prohibited in Ubunt if it's small.  Don't do it in Debian (although I do see Debian maintainers doing this).
<xtknight> pkern, filthy?
<pkern> xtknight: Yes. Now you could argument that the thing you patched is filthy too.
<bddebian> Gah that sucks especially when it's not using any type of decent patching system :-(
<xtknight> hm ok
<RAOF> bddebian: Can't you just add a decent patching system?
<bddebian> I'm gonna try dpatch now :-)
<pkern> dpatch sucks, simple-patchsys sucks much more.
<bddebian> Yes but I'm not putting quilt on this sucker :)
<pkern> xtknight: Actually I wanted to sync the package from Debian.
<pkern> xtknight: But it throws a warning because of some spurious whitespace before  some parantheses (+spelling).
<pkern> And I don't want to hack that bloody patch because the identing is just... weird, and there's no quilt!
<pwnguin> is quilt actually hard to set up?
<pkern> Nope.
<xtknight> what do you suggest?  i never could find a good guide for quilt so i just get by w/ diff
<xtknight> the debdiff doesn't apply?
<pkern> xtknight: *will fix* :-P
<pkern> xtknight: And thanks for your contribution.
<xtknight> pkern, what do you mean exactly by will fix ?
<xtknight> as opposed to "won't fix"? :P
<pkern> xtknight: Will fix that issue and upload it.
<xtknight> oh ok
<ScottK> bddebian: What package?
<xtknight> pkern, thx for dealing with it, ideally i would use "quilt" but i just dont understand it
<xtknight> i'm not sure it would create anything different from a typical "diff"?
<pkern> xtknight: It does exactly that but it allows me to nicely edit files and to refresh the patch afterwards.
<xtknight> pkern,  my "diff" 'd  files are not identical to what quilt would come up with?
<pwnguin> ok; this is getting rather tiring: ive got a package and i'd like to apply a patch to it. the patch applies, but i need to define HAVE_SYS_ACL_H. im totally lost on where / how to add that flag
<RAOF> pwnguin: At configure time?
<ScottK> Automatix source for Gutsy is posted on Ubuntu forums if anyone cares.
<pwnguin> theres an aclocal.m4, a configure.h.in, and the directory of the executable i want to build has an Makefile.am
<persia> xtknight: There's a short example of using quilt in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<pkern> Automatix!?!?!?!?!
<xtknight> automatix was mentioned in a NY times article too :)
<pkern> Yeah, that scared the s.... out of me.
<RAOF> pwnguin: Are you autoreconf-ing/autogen.sh-ing?
<pwnguin> RAOF: no. should i be?
* pwnguin isnt very familiar with autoconf
<ScottK> Automatix source is supposed to be here: http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=45694&d=1191877399
<xtknight> persia, cool i will look at it.  primarily i am confused about "push" and "pop"  reminds me of old calculators
<persia> xtknight: Same semantics
<ScottK> pkern: They promise they're going to make it not suck and work with us.
<xtknight> too bad i dont use old calcs ;)
<pkern> ScottK: Do they use dpkg?
<RAOF> pwnguin: Well, unless you autoreconf any changes you make to *.ac & *.am won't do anything.
<ScottK> pkern: In evil ways (at least in the old version).
<pkern> ScottK: Like overriding files from other packages? :-P
<ScottK> IIRC there are over-rides and moving of files.  Don't recall for sure if it was from other packages, but wouldn't suprise me.
<ScottK> My favorite is routinely sigkilling dpkg because it might not be finished on it's own.
<bddebian> ScottK: colorgcc.  I'm supposed to be the maintainer :-)
<pkern> ScottK: Nice.
<ScottK> bddebian: Then you need to patch it.
<xtknight> "already existing patch" 901_xterm_manpage.diff.  this is what i dont understand.  if the patch is already there why are we doing "sed -i" ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources )
<pwnguin> RAOF: is this something that should be done in rules?
<ScottK> pkern: They promise to have mended their ways.
<xtknight> also what made that patch and what is in it
<bddebian> ScottK: I know. :-(  Unless I just call myself upstream ;-P
<pkern> ScottK: So why didn't they just port RPM and use that instead? That has a history of corrupting things on SIGKILL. ;)
<pkern> ScottK: Are they certified? :-P
<persia> xtknight: A previous developer made the patch.  You should be able to see it in debian/patches
<RAOF> pwnguin: Generally, no.  If you need to do autofoo you generally stick the changes in a (gigantic) patch.
<xtknight> persia, oh we are updating his patch?
<xtknight> didn't see edit, got it now
<xtknight> that's not so difficult.  would be nice if quilt had something like diff Nru so you could do stuff recursively .
<pkern> So Tomcat is still running. I guess I will have to reinstall soonish.
<ScottK> bddebian: Interesting approach to a patch system youve got there...
<ScottK> pkern: Don't get me started.
<bddebian> ScottK: I didn't write that :-)
<pkern> ScottK: I just installed Gutsy.  At that point I need to do that I could just move on. ;)
<pkern> I'm not sure Debian would be better though.
<pkern> No viable alternative for me for now.
<RAOF> Oh, great.  It seems that with Xgl we can either (1) have the screen turn off after 20 min of inactivity or (2) Never have the screen turn off.
<pkern> I would go for `turn the screen off after every inactivity'.
<ScottK> pkern: ?
<bddebian> Gaaahhh
<pkern> That's somehow missing from the list of options. :-P
<bddebian> This sucks
<ScottK> bddebian: Would it be a help to you if I made your debian/rules do dpatch so you could just dpatch-edit-patch?
<bddebian> I already did that part but now I'm trying to apply the existing patches into dpatches
<ScottK> Ah.  So fire up dpatch-edit-patch and then throw the patches into it with patch.
<bddebian> That's what I tried
<ScottK> DIdn't work?
<bddebian> I ended up with some weirdass colorgcc.orig file
<pkern> ScottK: The experience is a regression compared to what I had before, sadly enough. Ok, most could be deduced to fglrx.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o gnomefreak]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*n=wii@*.abo.wanadoo.fr]  by gnomefreak
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o gnomefreak]  by ChanServ
<pkern> o_O
<ScottK> pkern: Lesson there is don't talk mean to gnomefreak.
<ScottK> StevenK: pkern has done us the favor of fixing Tomcat (and a bunch of CVEs), but he needs a couple of UVFe's approved....
<StevenK> Yay
<ScottK> Bug #150751
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150751 in libcommons-modeler-java "[gutsy]  UVFe for libcommons-modeler-java 2.0.1-3" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150751
<gnomefreak> ScottK: keeping bad trolls out
<pkern> A couple. Yeah, exactly two.
<gnomefreak> very bad ones
<ScottK> Cool.
<pkern> Wouldn't the appropriate way on Freenode be a KLINE? ;)
<ScottK> StevenK: and Bug #150755
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150755 in tomcat5.5 "[gutsy]  UVFe for tomcat5.5 5.5.25-1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150755
<pkern> Beware. Here might be dragons.
<gnomefreak> pkern: not really we tried that
<gnomefreak> pkern: this is someone from a few nights ago
<bddebian> Gah, WTF, why does it keep creating these damn foo.orig files
<persia> bddebian: It's the fuzz
<StevenK> ScottK, pkern: Both bugs rubber stamped - be sure to get libcommons-modeler-java sync'd before you upload the merge of tomcat5.5
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<pkern> StevenK: Sure, thanks.
<ScottK> pkern: libcommons-modeler-java was a sync, right?
<pkern> Yes.
<bddebian> persia: Can I just whack them?
<persia> bddebian: If you're running a patch system, and it's generating .orig files, it usually means the patches don't quite match (fuzz).  If the results are acceptable (.rej is missing, usually), you can kill the .orig files.  If you're encountering fuzz, it's best practice to refresh the patches to not get the fuzz, and apply cleanly.  (In short: "yes, but...")
<bddebian> Yeah, I get succeeded at offset foo :-(
<StevenK> There's something that can rejig patch files...
<bddebian> Isn't the whole point of dpatch-edit-patch to only write back what I changed?
<persia> bddebian: There's nice tools (look in patchutils), but I usually just use edit-foo-patch, apply the old patch, clean up the result, clobber .orig & .rej, and exit to get a refreshed patch.
<StevenK> dpatch-edit-patch shouldn't write patches that apply with fuzz.
<persia> Ah.  In the dpatch-edit-patch session, delete the .orig files after cleaning the fuzz to generate clean patches.
<bddebian> I did that but my second patch still gives Succeeded at offset... :-(
<persia> bddebian: dpatch-edit-patch is generating fuzz?
<bddebian> It seems that way
<persia> bddebian: Is there something else changing the sources prior to dpatch application?
<bddebian> I don't think so
* persia is confused.
* bddebian too
* Hobbsee changes everyone's language, so they're more confused.
<bddebian> kanji?
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee :-)
<persia> bddebian: Just to make sure, your procedure has been 1) unpack the package, 2) extract the old patches, 3) dpatch-edit-patch $patchname, 4) apply the old patches, 5) clean the fuzz, 6) exit, 7) run build?
<RAOF> Hey Hobbsee
<persia> 
<bddebian> persia: Aye, one at a time
<bddebian> Well I didn't build between patch 1 and patch 2
<persia> Right.  Iteration over the patches for steps 3-6.
<bddebian> Aye
<Hobbsee> hiya!
<pkern> persia: I like that exclamation mark.
<persia> double-byte is always better
<pkern> Google only know Japanese, not Chinese.
<pkern> persia: Yeah but the spacing is wrong in Latin scripts and... WTH, ANOTHER CODEPOINT!?
<pkern> persia: But it makes sense looking at Japanese.
<persia> pkern: The spacing is why you need another codepoint.  The idea is to differentiate between things that should take as much space as a calligraphic character (1:1) and things that only need half the space (2:1).
<pkern> persia: Yeah. But well, I'm using a monospace font anyway. :-P
<pkern> There is still an archive admin awake. I'd guess it's Steve.
<persia> pkern: Doesn't '' render differently than '!',even in your monospace font?
<pkern> persia: It does.
<minghua> persia: Depends on the font.
<pkern> persia: Point is that "half the space" is mood on a monospace font. But it's indeed placed differently within the fixed width place.
<minghua> It renders pretty much the same here.
<persia> minghua: Really?  I didn't know there were any fonts that rendered full-width characters as half-width.
<bddebian> Does this look normal?:
<bddebian> dpatch deapply-all -v
<bddebian> reverting patch 01_split_non_quoted from ./ ...
<bddebian> patching file colorgcc
<minghua> persia: not width, but the shape is pretty much the same.
<pkern> persia: Hm ok you are right.
* pkern is tired. 4:03 local time.
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Yes.
<Hobbsee> oh, fricking kmos
<RAOF> *again*?
<StevenK> What's he done?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: What now?
<minghua> persia: And actually, I've seen some broken font that renders half-width stuff the same as full-width ones.
<StevenK> No no, *STILL*?
<Hobbsee> just his filing this galculator bug.
<persia> That's to be rejected, no?
<ScottK> Oh.  That one.  You saw my response, right?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you've seen it
<Hobbsee> persia: of course
<Hobbsee> ScottK: mine was better.
* ScottK looks.
<persia> minghua: I've seen that a lot: silly people who don't use roman scripts.
<minghua> Well... if you call majority of 15 billion Chinese stupid people...
<StevenK> 15 billion you say?
<minghua> 1.5 billion, sorry.
* StevenK grins
<persia> minghua: Not stupid: only silly, in reference to font design.
<minghua> stupid western units.
<persia> minghua: Careful there: almost 3 million people use western units
<minghua> In Chinese we use 10000, then 100000000 as units.
<persia> s/million/billion/
<StevenK> 2.9 billion of those use them incorrectly. :-P
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You need to lobby your LP dev friends to add Importance "Insane".
<persia> ScottK: Does that fall beneath wishlist?
<ScottK> persia: Yes.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: haha
<ScottK> Then lobby them to make all jdong's bugs default to that importance. ;-)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> !jdong | jdong
<ubotu> jdong: jdong is Hobbsee: jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Did you see the Automatix devs posted their source to the forum thread?
* jdong files more bugs :)
<pkern> Hah.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah, i saw something like that
<pkern> More buuuuuugs!
<Hobbsee> i'm still interested in their definition of 'fixed'
<pkern> (Now let that b sound like a d...)
<pkern> Or rather dr.
* pkern is silly.
<ScottK> So now's the time to talk him into uploading stuff to Debian....
<pkern> If that would work...
<bddebian> Ah, 2 for 2, here goes #3 :)
<pkern> ScottK: If you suggest me, or rather my eyes, that you're bddebian... :-P Or rather the person who tries.
* bddebian doesn't get that
<ScottK> bddebian: It's 4AM where he is.  I'm not sure there's much more than that to get.
<bddebian> heh
<pkern> <me> "Why are we still awake?" <a friend of mine> "I won't tell you!"
<ScottK> Yes.  The joys of life at University.
* ScottK has vague recollections of those.
<ScottK> Speaking of which, I think I'll go get a drink.
<pkern> Hm. I could fetch me a beer. That would be a deal at least.
<pkern> The free bear^Hbeer that was promised for the attendance of the last MOTU meeting didn't ship yet.
<StevenK> The free beabeer ?
<ScottK> As long as the free bear comes with a cage, I'm ok.
<RAOF> How big is this bear, and can you mail it?
<persia> pkern: That was only a resolution to provide fee bears to regular attendees, for future meetings.  Ship dates require further discussion.
<minghua> ScottK: Be careful, nobody promised the cage is free.
<ScottK> I expect if it makes it to the house without the driver being eaten, I'll be safe enough.
<ScottK> It'd be a good thing to threaten the kids with anyway...
<ScottK> "If you don't behave, I'll send you to the bear..."
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<pkern> ScottK: CAREBEARSTARE
<ScottK> I'm fairly certain I don't want to understand that.
<pkern> "Papa, may I snuggle against that bear? It looks cuddly!"
<minghua> It's just a big version of teddy.
<pkern> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Care_Bears
<ScottK> I was afraid you were headed in that direction.
<pkern> The Care Bears' ultimate "weapon" is the "Care Bear Stare," in which the collected Bears stand together and radiate light from their respective tummy symbols. These combine to form a ray of love and good cheer which could bring care and joy into the target's heart.
<ScottK> One of our German au pairs was a HUGE Care Bear fan and so I'm already overexposed.
<ScottK> pkern: Sounds perfect for Ubuntu though.
<pkern> ScottK: Fine.  I only know the "movies" they depicted on TV.
<pkern> ScottK: Teletubbies?
<ScottK> Gah.
<ScottK> Fortunately my youngest (4) is to old for teletubbies.
<pkern> Be nice to eachother!  Time for Teletubiies!
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> pkern: You need to talk to bddebian.  IIRC he's the teletubbies fan.
<bddebian> Nah, poobah ;-P
<bddebian> Or boopah or whatever the hell those evil things are called
<persia> The maker of lists?
* pkern hasn't yet realised that he isn't a teenie anymore.
* pkern is Grumpy Bear.
<bddebian> My wife thinks it is boobah
* ScottK agrees with bddebian's wife and if he knows what's good for him, he will too.
* Hobbsee thinks you people are scary.
* ScottK pauses to ponder considering who just said that.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Who said MOTU wasn't fun any more...
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Kettle for you, line 2.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: heh
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hmmm?
<bddebian> ScottK: I've changed my ways ;-)
<pkern> Kettle Pot Black?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: As in, "Pot. Kettle. Black."
<ScottK> Something like that.
<Hobbsee> ah, yes.
<bddebian> Holy crap, 3 for 3, thanks persia
* persia disclaims any responsibiliy
<persia> s/iy/ity/
<bddebian> pfft
<ScottK> persia: I saw you were one of the recent uploaders for fluxbox.  Would you take a look at Bug #150765 and turn it into a UVFe if you think it's worthwhile?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150765 in fluxbox "WISHLIST: Fluxbox1.0.0 Final included in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150765
* persia doesn't remember fluxbox
<StevenK> Sure you do. "Short, skinny, looks like a weasel"
<ScottK> Unless I got it wrong, upload before last was yours.
<pkern> WISHLIST: Please release Gutsy bug-free and usable for everyone, that would solve bug #1, kthxbye.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<pkern> *cough*
<pwnguin> if that was the goal
<pwnguin> then i think compiz was a mistake
<pkern> It was.
<pkern> Who seriously doubts that?
<pkern> And anyway: I don't have any compiz. I'm on fglrx, screwing my laptop.
<persia> After using a Mac for a while, I look forward to compiz working.
<pwnguin> compiz is frustrating. 20 percent is great and awesome
<pwnguin> the other 80 needs some love
<pkern> After using a Mac for a while I would appreciate SUSPEND.
* ScottK doesn't have anything capable of it and is happy for that.
<Hobbsee> well, they didnt want to drop it *three* releases in a row
* ScottK doesn't need bling, just getting work done.
<tonyyarusso> Maybe he should think before speaking more then Hobbsee ?  ;)
<poningru> anyone else know if bcm43xx-fwcutter is broken on purpose?
<poningru> it puts the fw in /lib/firmware
<pwnguin> Well then put the money where the mouth is, cuz clearly upstream isn't living up to the high goals people put on Ubunut
<Hobbsee> tonyyarusso: well, it's hard to tell how fast things will move
<poningru> not in /lib/firmware/`uname -r`
<StevenK> I'm going to treat compiz like metacity - if it doesn't get in my way or annoy me, it can stay.
<tonyyarusso> Hobbsee: true - still a bit premature I'd say
<ScottK> StevenK: Sounds about right.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  I just requested a sync.  I'll take a look at it, but I've never dug into the code, so no guarantees.
<tonyyarusso> Does compiz work sanely with workspaces yet?
<poningru> tonyyarusso: no
<ScottK> persia: It needs a UVFe.
<tonyyarusso> poningru: bah.  Then it will get in my way.
<poningru> tonyyarusso: it cant do mouse scroll
<persia> ScottK: Also packaging.  Debian only has 1.0~rc3-5
<poningru> but otherwise itsgotten pretty sane
<pkern> ScottK: You're blocking real work and willingly people, ain't you? ;)
<ScottK> persia: Ah.
<ScottK> pkern: I am?
<poningru> like each workspace == one side on the cube/triangle etc.
<pkern> ScottK: "I do $foo." "That will need a UVFe!" That's spoiling the fun! ;)
<ScottK> pkern: Ah.  I'd think you being German and all would like all the forms filled out ;-)
<pkern> Even Soyuz wants us to think that gutsy is frozen.
<persia> ScottK: Could you subscribe me to 150765?  The "subscribe to" link doesn't render in Safari :(
<pkern> ScottK: With my Debian hat... probably. :-P
<pkern> ScottK: But Ubuntu is pure... love. :-P
<ScottK> Soyuz doesn't know from Universe/Main.
<Hobbsee> pkern: yes, but soyuz is brain-dead in a fair few places, so...
<pkern> (Which is irrational, of course.)
<ScottK> persia: Sure.
<pkern> Hobbsee: Welcome to `software as a service'.
<Hobbsee> yeah, well.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  I'll confirm assignment (or lack thereof) in ~12 hours.
<ScottK> persia: Subscribed.
<ScottK> pkern: Very good.  You're pretty new here, but you got it already.
<pkern> ScottK: My pleasure.
<pkern> (If that was the right term, don't know.)
<ScottK> pkern: Actually for the UVFe persia's looking at, I'd take "I looked at it and we should do it" without all the paperwork (much as I did your Tomcat UVFe).
<ScottK> Sure.
<pkern> Somebody else must have solved the paperwork for me.
<pkern> For Tomcat. I don't have a clue about that.
<pkern> Somebody said `it's easy'.
* persia notes that if someone else packages and does the admin for fluxbox first, there'll be no complaints
<pwnguin> victory!
<pwnguin> well, it builds at least. no idea if the package works
<pwnguin> testing is for users =)
<bddebian> heh
<pkern> Users will iron it out!
<pwnguin> fortunately, I are one
<pkern> But OTOH there are 18186 new bugs reported against Ubuntu, and 33839 bugs open.
<pkern> And only two are assigned to me. Heh. And probably only because they are incomplete.
* persia is impressed that the level of open bugs has remained static for the past ~8 months.  Something is being done right.
<bddebian> pkern: Amen brother :-(
<minghua> persia: But http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/ says in the past six months open bug number grew from 20,000 to 30,000?
* ScottK is stunned to note that the last bug listed in #ubuntu-bugs right now is a compiz bug....
<pkern> Get it to scale logarithmic.
<ScottK> Who'd have thought it possible.
<RAOF> ScottK: One that's already fixed, too :)
<pkern> Or s/scale/increase/
* persia revises the "something is going right" estimate to be for the past 4 months.
<persia> minghua: Umm..  That's a little out of date (for me), but it looks like April was around 26,000.  Is there a different, updated, page?
<minghua> persia: Yeah, I noticed it's outdated as well.
<pkern> n8 folks
<minghua> persia: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs says we have 33,840 bugs open now, so your 4-month claim is not bad.
<ScottK> g'night pkern
<pwnguin> persia: open bugs isn't the same as bugs existing
<poningru> halp
<pwnguin> it could be that people simply stop reporting bugs becaues 90 percent go unanswered
<poningru> bug 130511
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 130511 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Gusty updates broke my wireless connectivity" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130511
<persia> pwnguin: Exactly.  Bugs existing grow fairly quickly (see #ubuntu-bugs).  If the number of open bugs is fairly static, that means we're keeping up, which is better than before.
<poningru> the bcm firmware and pcm files arent getting copied over to the newer kernels
<persia> pwnguin:I think there are still plenty of reporters :)
<pwnguin> persia: recall that bugs expire with time now, if no attention was paid
<ScottK> poningru: We're already past kernel freeze, so don't hold your breath.
<persia> Ah.  Right.  That does tend to skew the statistics.  Also, it means there's less low-hanging fruit for new bug triagers (the changelog says this is fixed in version foo)
<Hobbsee> there's been a kernel upload, it's in unaccepted atm
<ScottK> pwnguin: Only if there's no response and it's left incomplete.
<Hobbsee> unsure what it changes - but it's probalby not hard to find out
<poningru> ScottK: well unfortunately this break wifi for a crap load of people
<ScottK> poningru: I'm not a kernel dev, so nothing I can do.
<pwnguin> ScottK: which percentage of bugs do you think this applies to?
<persia> So the bugs have to first be marked incomplete?  "New" bugs don't expire?
* ScottK has a really painful kernel regression too.
<bddebian> So, who's the perl expert? :-)
* persia has not been able to use a release kernel since Dapper, although most interim kernels are good.
<ScottK> pwnguin: I've no idea.  I got a lot of bugmail when they released the last LP "upgrade", but most of them were wrong and will be reopened.
<poningru> anyone know how bad a simple ln -s /lib/firmware/whatever/bcm43xx_* /lib/firmware/`uname -r`/ would be?
<ajmitch> good day
<ScottK> bddebian: That would be StevenK, but he's reluctant to admit it.
<ScottK> hello ajmitch.
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<StevenK> Whatever ScottK says about me is a lie.
<StevenK> :-P
<DarkMageZ> can anyone recommend an example package that just dumps data to a specific place on the filesystem? no compiling, maybe some permission altering :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: you're allowed to disavow all perl knowledge now
<bddebian> Oh man, that is sooo open if I wasn't held to some sort of CoC :-)
<ScottK> bddebian: I was wrong.  StevenK knows nothing about Perl.
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> ajmitch: Awww, why not?
<pwnguin> DarkMageZ: anything -doc?
* poningru goujes his eyes out
<RAOF> DarkMageZ: mplayre-themes
<DarkMageZ> ty :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: I said you can, so avoid the perl burden as much as possible :)
<ajmitch> otherwise you'll end up hacking debhelper & lintian or something
<StevenK> Oh, right.
<ScottK> ajmitch: And Perl is definitely a burden.
* StevenK has done both.
<RAOF> DarkMageZ: Sorry, mplayer-skins
* ajmitch has only done a little perl
<ajmitch> so, is tracker still enabled & buggy by default?
<persia> ajmitch: Yes.
<ajmitch> excellent
* ScottK has actually managed a bit of it too.
<ajmitch> gutsy will rock then
<RAOF> Less buggy, though.
<pwnguin> enabeled, i think so. buggy, maybe not
<ajmitch> so it won't feel like my laptop is a 486 with 32MB of RAM?
<RAOF> It no longer segfaults on amd64, neither does it index on disc, nor does it completely destroy responsiveness.
<pwnguin> time to sell consulting services for "fixing" gutsy
* ScottK wonders if Tracker will turn out to be a good advertisement for Kubuntu...
<RAOF> s/disc/battery/
<ajmitch> RAOF: will it handle a few million files in /home? :)
<poningru> ScottK: s/tracker/strigi ;)
<poningru> ajmitch: actually yes
<ScottK> strigi is not quit so painful I understand.
<ScottK> quit/quite
<RAOF> ajmitch: It handles my $HOME with a whole lot of git & bzr trees fine.
<poningru> ajmitch: my home folder has couple of hundred thousand files
<poningru> since I sshfs my entire server on there
<ajmitch> poningru: right, I've easily got over 2 million or so
<ajmitch> so tracker would sit & churn
<pwnguin> ok, so it turns out i need acls enabled on ext3 to make GNOME screensaver work with fingerprint reading securely
* StevenK waits for find to return
<poningru> ajmitch: I can honestly say its not so bad for me
<poningru> try it out I would say
<pwnguin> a) how? and b) odds of getting such into Ubuntu by default?
<RAOF> 216K files in my $HOME.
<RAOF> pwnguin: (a) add "acl" to mount opts in fstab, (b) It'd be cool to?
<pwnguin> RAOF: neat
<ScottK> pwnguin: a) Dunno.  b) nil for Gutsy at this point.
<pwnguin> ScottK: yea, i meant to say Hardy
<ajmitch> RAOF: you don't have 'large' piles of mail in maildir format
<RAOF> ajmitch: That's true, I don't.
<StevenK> I do, it just lives on my mail server, not my desktop. :-)
<RAOF> pwnguin: But why do you need ACL support from ext3 for fingerprint reading?
<pwnguin> because gnome sucks
<ajmitch> StevenK: my desktop & mail server are one :)
<ajmitch> mutt does tend to start doing funny things with lots of mail in a folder though
<pwnguin> the basic scenario is this: thinkfinger records a users fingerprint in /etc/pam_thinkfinger/user.bir
<pwnguin> RAOF: with very limited permissions, because on scan, it compares that file against a new scan
<StevenK> There go. Half a million files or so in $HOME
<ajmitch> StevenK: you just had find count them all?
<StevenK> Yah
* ajmitch counts all in ~/Mail
<RAOF> pwnguin: (1) Shouldn't that go in /var/lib? and (2) Ah, right.
<ajmitch> I'll get back to you in an hour or two with a count :)
<StevenK> Hah
<pwnguin> RAOF: (1) possibly. but i didnt write this. and debian's being a real bitch about fixing things
<pwnguin> RAOF: upstream is basically floating in the ocean while the main developer panics about suse 10.3 or something, being a hired developer and all
<ajmitch> :0:> find ~/Mail |wc -l
<ajmitch> 844525
<ajmitch> not quite as bad as I thought there :)
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> though a number of large mailboxes are still in mbox format
* minghua hasn't notice any problem with tracker yet.
<minghua> But then again, my $HOME is pretty empty.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ find ~ /storage/ | wc -l
<Hobbsee> 112248
<Hobbsee> hm, not bad.
<ajmitch> that's nothing
<Hobbsee> yeah, i dont keep all my mail.  that'd help
<Hobbsee> and i dont keep every upload that i do - only some of the bzr trees, and the kde source.
* ajmitch checks his ubuntu build/scratch area
<ajmitch> I keep too many uploads & unpacked source trees
<ajmitch> probably why /home is 99% full
<StevenK> I tend to keep them as well, my 15Gb /home is 94% full
<pwnguin> i should get an nslu2 sometime
<pwnguin> and undo my reiser storage
<pwnguin> that was just a sad mistake
<bddebian> Hmm, is ccache installed by default on Debian?
<StevenK> I seriously doubt it.
<bddebian> Grr, then I don't know wtf these people are talking about on this bug for colorgcc
<bddebian> There has to be a better way to do it
<pwnguin> what? build-essential isnt even installed by default
<bddebian> I don't think so
<persia> build-essential is definitely not installed by default.
<minghua> bddebian: Not only it's not installed by default, it's not even enabled when installed.
<bddebian> w00t
<bddebian> Well I don't know how to make colorgcc just "know" what gcc the user wants it to use.. Sheesh
<imbrandon> bddebian: `which gcc` ?
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> imbrandon: well, im guessing someone would like it to handle makefiles etc
<pwnguin> to where you install colorgcc and it automagically calls the correct gcc alternatives
<pwnguin> it might make sense to just hit up alternatives directly, and put colorgcc somewhere high up in PATH, but that's sorta ... scary
<bddebian> Well it's already set to utilized CC=colorgcc, etc so I dunno why that doesn't do the trick
<bddebian> s/utilized/utilize/
<bddebian> Bah, gnight folks..
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Good morning dholbach
<dholbach> heya RAOF
<RAOF> I wonder if the PPA is meant to have a > 1hr time lag between source-package-added and queuing the build.
<StevenK> RAOF: The real archive used to.
<persia> RAOF: I doubt it's intentional, but it's in line with the way the real archive behaves
<persia> StevenK: It got better?
<StevenK> persia: I've seen it work better, depending on when in the cycle a package was uploaded/accepted.
<RAOF> Fair enough.  This seems to be a regression, though.  The PPA used to queue the builds in < 15min.
<persia> StevenK: Do you think that's a load issue, or a Soyuz configuration issue?
<persia> RAOF: Regressions are fair game.  Complain in #lanchpad :)
<StevenK> persia: I think it's a locking issue, personally.
<persia> (s/an/aun/)
<RAOF> Once the reviever meeting is over, #launchpad it is :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: publisher takes a while to run, usually
<Hobbsee> but, who knows
<StevenK> (Roughly 40 minutes)
<\sh> moins
<blueyed> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-listchanges/+bug/139143/comments/17
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139143 in apt-listchanges "apt-listchanges crashes after python upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<dholbach> Hobbsee, ScottK: it was not necessary to close bug 150740
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150740 in galculator "[Gutsy]  Galculator v1.3.1 is out" [Wishlist,Won't fix]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150740
<dholbach> Hobbsee, ScottK: it can still be marked as 'later'
* Hobbsee didnt close it
<dholbach> ok
<Hobbsee> but true, it looked like a uvfe bug.
<Hobbsee> and presumably debian will have it for hardy
<dholbach> we have quite some changes in galculator for UME, I don't think it'll be easy to just sync it
<Hobbsee> then i dont trust him at all with uploading it.
<Hobbsee> but, fair enough
<dholbach> he should coordinate with adilson
<Hobbsee> adilson isnt stupid enough to attmept to mangle his changes.
<Hobbsee> it'd be quicker just to redo it from scratch, methinks
<Hobbsee> i dont get why he felt that it wasnt necessary to do a UVFe for it though.
<dholbach> that's something they can both figure out for Hardy - I agree: it does not look like it's something we want now
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i dont get why he wastes other people's time though, when he clearly doesnt think it's required to do a uvfe.  or something.
<Hobbsee> i thought he'd been told off enough times to know that that was a bad idea.
<dholbach> did he subscribe motu-uvf?
<Hobbsee> yup
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> I'll ask him later today
<Hobbsee> oh, i thoguth he did.  why doesnt it show on the activity log
<Hobbsee> he subscribed u-u-s, so he clearly thought it was OK for uploading
<dholbach> hrm
<Hobbsee> could have sworn it was a uvfe bug - it showed in that folder, i'm sure
<Hobbsee> whether it was or not is debatable - it was still wasting people's time, as it shouldnt be uploaded without a uvfe regardless.
* Hobbsee shrugs
<\sh> Hobbsee, did the reporter check if the old gdk function calls are removed from the new version of galculator?
<Hobbsee> he should know better, and i'm fairly certain that he does know better, as he could manage for the other bugs.  i'd be very surprised if this wasnt a malicious attempt at bypassing the uvfe queue.
<Hobbsee> whether by actual maliciousness or by incompetence, i'm unsure.
<\sh> and I wonder....sebebastien is the debian maintainer when I see the debian uploads...he should know if it's feasable to sync or not at a certain ubuntu release state
<Hobbsee> \sh: very unlikely.
<Hobbsee> \sh: yeah, but....you don't seriously expect this guy to act sanely like that, do you?
<persia> \Sh: it was adjusted by upstream.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: also, he's still touching other people's bugs - sync requests, etc.  setting them to wishlist.  he said that he wouldnt do it, last time i told him why it was a bad idea.
<dholbach> he should not have subscribed any of the teams, but it's not wasted work
<dholbach> it can be re-reviewed for hardy
<Hobbsee> if you can find anyone brave enough to do the review.
<dholbach> adilson dived quite deep into galculator code :)
<\sh> Hobbsee, well, I trust only myself and I trust people who are working steadily on a project
<Hobbsee> \sh: you must not have been around enough to hear about kmos yet.  consider yourself lucky.
<\sh> persia, right
<\sh> Hobbsee, well, I had my experience with syncs/new upstream versions...so I consider myself not as lucky, but experienced ;)
<pwnguin> kmos being a person, not a package
<Hobbsee> \sh: :)
<\sh> pwnguin, I know that kmos is a who, not a which ;)
<AstralJava> Hobbsee: Sorry to bug you personally, but I don't really know other devs that look after KDE. May I ask where I could get info regarding running KDE4, or specifically, some advice as I ran into a problem trying to run some KDE4 programs?
<Hobbsee> um, #kubuntu-devel, #kde4-devel would be good places to ask
<Hobbsee> assuming anyone's awake
* Hobbsee runs off to work, bbl sorry
<AstralJava> Thanks. :)
<\sh> anyone who wants to fix dircproxy=
<\sh> ?
<\sh> http://security-tracker.debian.net/tracker/CVE-2007-5226
<ubotu> irc_server.c in dircproxy 1.2.0 and earlier allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (segmentation fault) via an ACTION command without a parameter, which triggers a NULL pointer dereference, as demonstrated using a blank /me message from irssi. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5226)
<\sh> well, I'll try to fix it...
<dholbach> hey vil
<dholbach> hey AstralJava
<vil> hey dholbach
<vil> dholbach, I hope I was not too strict about the Subclipse package
<AstralJava> Hi there dholbach!
<dholbach> vil: no, your input was great to have
<geser> morning
<dholbach> hey geser
<white> \sh: i tried to backport a fix
<white> \sh: have a look at the patch, if you want
<white> \sh: http://developer.skolelinux.no/~white/security/dircproxy/patch
<white> still need to test, of course :)
<white> \sh: and btw it would be a good idea to coordinate security stuff over #debian-security on OFTC ;)
<white> it also avoids duplicated work
<\sh> white, well, I didn't setup my xchat to connect to my dircproxy for oftc yet...normally I'm lurking there :)
<white> hehe
<\sh> white, but this solution is equal to mine ;)
<white> \sh: i will probably NMU it tonight, you can feel free to do so before me, if you want
<\sh> white: so I'll add it to all supported ubuntu releases...with a reference to you explaining that it can be dropped for the next sync round
<white> feel free to do so :)
<\sh> white, cool...thx :)
<white> would be nice, if the debian maintainer either orphans it or updates the package :/
<\sh> fcking hal
<huats> good morning all
<geser> Hi huats
<norsetto> hello all
<BugMaN> hi norsetto :)
<norsetto> BugMaN: Hola buggieman
<BugMaN> norsetto: i'm from rome like you :)
<norsetto> BugMaN: he, nobody is perfect
<dholbach> good morning romans!
<dholbach> :-)
<BugMaN> dholbach: hi! :)
<norsetto> dholbach: ave
<norsetto> dholbach: perhaps I'm missing something (as usual), but, why is a 2nd ack needed for pyelemental?
<dholbach> norsetto: oh, there is no need for that
<dholbach> excusez-moi
<norsetto> dholbach: de nada :-) btw, should I send the email about the mentoring meeting?
<dholbach> yeah, great idea
<huats> hi dholbach
<huats> hi norsetto
<dholbach> hey huats
<norsetto> huats: bonjour le maitre des petite bestioles
<huats> norsetto: why little stuffs?
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> huats: cafards ....
<norsetto> huats: its kind of cool actually
<norsetto> huats: like Master of the Flies but cooler
<huats> norsetto: oh
<huats> norsetto: it is a brand new aspect for me, but I trust you :-)
<norsetto> huats: I think you have to dress in black too, dunno if your gf will like it
<persia> Is the mentoring meeting separate from all other meetings?
<huats> norsetto: not really sure either... I have to ask her :-)
<huats> btw when is the mentoring meeting ?
<norsetto> persia: you mean from a progress meeting?
<norsetto> huats: just sent out an email, we propose to attach it to the next MOTU meeting
<huats> ok
<huats> that is a good idea
<huats> especially since the next MOTU meeting is at a good time frame :-)
<persia> norsetto: In the last MOTU meeting, you mentioned something about discussing the status and plans for mentoring.  A few minutes ago, you mentioned an email about a mentoring meeting, and I just wondered if it was different han the next MOTU meeting.
<norsetto> persia: no, its the same and very one
<persia> Ah.  Yes.  I type slow.  That sounds ideal :)
<norsetto> persia: you may type slowly, but look at that! Not even a tiny typo, I'm ashamed :-)
<persia> norsetto: Umm..  e.g. s/then/han/ ?
<norsetto> persia: now, don't spoil it by pointing it out that there is a typo
<persia> Err.  Rather than/han
<dholbach> persia: I created http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/WikiMaintenance
<dholbach> persia: it'll hopefully help to keep the wiki in shape after the transitions have happened
<norsetto> dholbach: hmmmm, is there a way to add another email address to an ubuntu mailing list?
<dholbach> norsetto: I don't understand what you're trying to do? you want to subscribe somebody to it?
<norsetto> dholbach: no, I foolishly sent the mentoring email with my ubuntu.com address, so it is now waiting for moderations since the list doesn't (of course) know norsetto@ubuntu.com
<dholbach> norsetto: I'll auto-accept norsetto@ubuntu.com from now on, if that's what you like
<dholbach> I think it's cool if you send with your @ubuntu.com address
<persia> dholbach: I like the idea, but I'm thinking that a little more description would be useful.  I'm committed for the next couple days, but I'll try to put together some text to guide authors (e.g. If you want to add something to this TODO, write it up and add it to the category).  The idea being that if we describe best wiki management processes clearly, we'll have a better chance of identifying cruft.
<norsetto> dholbach: ok, pls. do (its both the ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-motu-mentors lists)
<dholbach> persia: absolutely agreed
<dholbach> norsetto: alrighty
<persia> That reminds me: who do I need to poke to enable an @ubuntu.com address?
<dholbach> that should work automatically?
<norsetto> persia: in theory yeah, but I had to poke some guy in launchpad
<persia> dholbach: That's what I've read.  I haven't tested in a few weeks, but it wasn't working in September.
<persia> norsetto: Could you email or /msg me the identity (or do you mean #lanuchpad?)
<dholbach> persia: #launchpad then :-/
<persia> Ah.  Thanks.
<norsetto> persia: yes, #launchpad
<norsetto> persia: let me check who is there, I might remember his name if I see it
<dholbach> norsetto: done
<persia> norsetto: No need.  I'll just grab whichever LP dev can process my request when I have more time to visit the channel.
<norsetto> dholbach: dnk
<norsetto> persia: good luck .....
<Fujitsu> white: Fix for CVE-2007-5226 uploaded to Gutsy.
<ubotu> irc_server.c in dircproxy 1.2.0 and earlier allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (segmentation fault) via an ACTION command without a parameter, which triggers a NULL pointer dereference, as demonstrated using a blank /me message from irssi. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5226)
<norsetto> Fujitsu: you are the mplayer guru, ain't you?
<Fujitsu> norsetto: I have been the one sorta maintaining it of late, yes.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: I have a patch (nothing serious, some 100 lines of code)
<Fujitsu> norsetto: What does it do?
<norsetto> Fujitsu: :-) seriously, how is it working with compiz?
<Fujitsu> Works OK for me, but doesn't use compiz's video plugin yet.
<philn> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi philn.
<norsetto> Fujitsu: I'm asking since I stumbled upon bug 150246, whcich was erroneously assigned to gnome-mplayer
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150246 in mplayer "gmplayer playing in a collapsed window and causing X restart" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150246
<persia> norsetto: I'm not entirely comfortable dedicating the MOTU meeting to mentoring: there's at least the fixed agenda which should also be covered.  Do you anticipate this would be an issue?
<norsetto> persia: its attached to that meeting, the MOTU meeting will be held as normal
<persia> norsetto: Ah.  Great.  Don't forget to add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
* norsetto add it
<norsetto> persia: but thats just for the MOTU meeting?
<persia> norsetto: Right.  If mentoring is to be a topic of the MOTU Meeting, it should appear as an agenda item.  If the recent meetings are a good example, it will likely be the main item (aside from the fixed items).
<norsetto> persia: our idea was to have it after the MOTU meeting, as a separate meeting (attached to the MOTU meeting to allow most people to partecipate)
<persia> Or am I confused, and the other meeting is separately scheduled at a very similar time?
<persia> Ah.  Right.  Nevermind.  I might advocate inclusion in the MOTU meeting, as if there's no other agenda, the meeting will likely be dispersed before an hour has passed, but I'll leave it to Australians to complain about reconvening if it's a bad time.
<norsetto> persia: 12:00 UTC should be 22:00 local time in oz? At elast, the civilised (* cough * * cough *) part ot it
<persia> norsetto: Either 22:00 or earlier.  It's the 0:00 that might be a problem (but I won't speak for them: I have no idea when they sleep)
* ajmitch cheers at being at UTC+13 now
<persia> ajmitch: The last meeting was supposed to be at a civilised time for you.  Perhaps we need another 04:00 UTC?
<ajmitch> persia: doesn't worry me anymore
<asisak> pkern, ScottK: do you still need my .desktop "expertise" :)
<norsetto> asisak: ceferino is waiting for you :-)
<asisak> norsetto: bug number? :)
<asisak> Hey MOTUs BTW :)
<norsetto> asisak: no wait, it has been disposed already (good old bddebian .....)
<norsetto> asisak: either that or dholbach in his weekly cleansing frenzy ;-)
<dholbach> norsetto, asisak: hmmm?
<norsetto> dholbach: sorry Master ... we were just chatting you know .....
<dholbach> ah right ;-)
<asisak> Actually Norsetto is talking nonsense. As usual.
<asisak> :)
<huats> asisak: I couldn't have say better
<huats> :-)
<norsetto> pff, yougsters, no respect for the older generation
<Fujitsu> I think we're going to need several people to go through all the apport crashes and check/unprivatise them at some point... that'll take a while :(
<ScottK> asisak: I don't think so.
<ScottK> dholbach: I won't fixed bug 150740 because it specifically said for Gutsy.  Later made no sense.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150740 in galculator "[Hardy]  Galculator v1.3.1 is out" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150740
<asisak> okay
<dholbach> ScottK: ok, I marked it as later; it can still go into hardy
<ScottK> dholbach: I don't think that makes any sense, but whatever.
<dholbach> why?
<dholbach> that way it's not wasted work
<StevenK> It might end up being anyway. Hardy won't open for at least another 2 weeks, at which point anything could have happened.
<ScottK> dholbach: If it's for a package that will autosync in Hardy it's wasted work no matter how you mark the bug.
<dholbach> it won't
<dholbach> it has ubuntu changes
<dholbach> quite a lot of them
<ScottK> OK.  Then it'll still need a merge which, IIRC, wasn't attached to the bug either.
<ScottK> Nevermind about that last bit.
<ScottK> asisak: If you are interested in something .desktop related, one of the Automatix devs posted their Gutsy Automatix source, http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=45694&d=1191877399, I see they are planning on shipping a checkgmail .desktop.  Is it better than ours?
<asisak> Actually I am quite busy now.
<asisak> But I can check it later.
<ScottK> asisak: No rush.
<asisak> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> dholbach: No, the galculator bug wasn't subscribed to motu-uvf.  minghua mentioned it here.  He's filed enough UVFe's that he clearly knows they are required.  I'm not sure if he was hoping someone would just upload it or not.
<dholbach> ScottK: right
<bluekuja> norsetto_limbo: you there?
<pkern> norsetto_limbo: I fixed ceferino. o_O
<persia> dholbach: Just noticed your Contributing change.  Does the "at least two release cycles" rule of thumb actually apply?
<ScottK> dholbach: I take it from the mentoring meeting that it's a foregone conclusion that the current mentoring process is better than the old way and should be continued?
<bluekuja> ScottK: can you take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xawtv/+bug/150905
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150905 in xawtv "Merge xawtv 395.dfsg.1-6 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
<bluekuja> ScottK: pitti told me it needs motu-sru scrutiny
<ScottK> bluekuja: Did you upload it already?
<bluekuja> ScottK: yeah
<bluekuja> ScottK: it's just a new debian revision, mere bug fixes
<ScottK> Actually he meant motu-uvf (motu-sru is defunct) and since it's just a new revision (not a new upstream) it doesn't actually.
<ScottK> bluekuja: Yes.  Uploading was the right thing to do.
<bluekuja> ScottK: yeah, I dont understand his message then
<ScottK> It was more along the lines of "That's in Universe, go bug the Universe people." than exactly what needed doing I think.
<bluekuja> hehe
<ScottK> It looks like a good merge to have uploaded to me (based on the description).
<pkern> libcommons-modeler-java still isn't synced. *cough*
<bluekuja> ScottK: yup, fixes some odd things that made the package unusable
<bluekuja> ScottK: we'll have to wait for a distro manager approvation
<bluekuja> and then it's in
<ScottK> Yes.  That generally happens pretty quickly.
<ScottK> pkern: What was the bug #?
<bluekuja> yup, that's why I was pinging pitti
<bluekuja> :)
<persia> ScottK: New mentoring?  Old mentoring?  Did something change while I was away?
<ScottK> bluekuja: Ne need to ping him.
<bluekuja> ScottK: yeah, gonna wait
<ScottK> pkern: Riddell is doing it now.
<ScottK> persia: I don't recall what changed when but we have this process now where people get assigned mentors.
* persia thought it was optional
<pkern> ScottK: Thanks.
<ScottK> persia: It is optional.
* ScottK just doesn't (from the outside admitedly) see it does a lot of good.
<ScottK> see/seem
<persia> ScottK: Thanks for the confirmation.  Things seem to be the same as they were.
<ScottK> OK.  Didn't recall exactly how that standing up and your vacation aligned.
<persia> Regarding "doing good", I think some people are more comfortable getting started with someone holding their hand.  It requires interface to the non-mentor model before one has the community backing to succeed.
<ScottK> persia: Could well be.  From the outside it's really hard to tell if it's worth the trouble or not.
<persia> ScottK: I was actually assigned thee mentees.  One left due to intern committment, one is still active (although only lightly: big plans for early Hardy), and one disappeared in mid-July.
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> ScottK: I'd say it's a mixed bag.  Some people find it helpful as an introduction.  Personally, I think there are two useful phases, with 4-6 months of relative inactivity between: an initial introduction to the processes and working as a contributor, and help putting together an action and interest plan when determining if joining MOTU is appropriate.
<persia> On the other hand, the idea that one should have a mentor detracts from the self-motivation that is so useful.
<zul> there is also a steep learning curve that alot of people probably get put off by
<ScottK> Which is, I think, a useful kind of discussion to have about the program.
<persia> I thought that was the topic of the meeting.
<ScottK> zul: I think starting people off with make a new package is a mistake that is a large cause of that.
* persia seconds ScottK
<ScottK> persia: As I read the agenda the viability/desireability of continuing the program is assumed.
* ScottK can see it has benifits, but are they worth the costs?
<persia> ScottK: I don't think the continuation of a mentoring program is up for debate, but the meaning of that program, and the management thereof seems to be.  I'd argue that a little hand-holding isn't bad, as long as it's optional, and everyone understands what it means.
<ScottK> persia: My point exactly.
<ScottK> Personally, having run into people who thought they couldn't do stuff because they didn't have a mentor assigned, I'm not convinced.
<persia> I'm really not sure about the costs.  Pre-mentoring, there were a number of people who stayed in-channel, and provided lots of help to new people, essentially doing the same thing.  I consider "introduction" over when the mentee is an active participant in-channel.
<ScottK> But that's OK.  I think there's a lot of convoluted, inefficient process stuff going on and I doubt it's going to get better.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Yes.  That's an issue.  I think the documentation needs to be much more clear.  I also think that separating mentoring into two phases (and encouraging different mentors) would go a long way towards dispelling that belief.
<ScottK> persia: The costs are MOTUs investing time in management overhead, people not contributing because they don't think they are official enough, and encouraging an environment where people expect spoon feeding.
<ScottK> Except for the very few that wouldn't speak up and get started without it, I don't really see what it gains us.
<persia> For cost #1, I'd say it's a wash: the management overhead is probably lower than the previous opportunity cost of people emailing random MOTUs and asking for help.  For cost #2, I think that better presentation could help, and for cost #3, I don't see much difference between assigned spoon-feeding and getting answers in-channel: in either case, it must be made clear that those who explain aren't actually going to do it.
<pkern> I IRC presence mandatory?
<pkern> s/I/Is/
<persia> On the other hand, the mid-gutsy model, where some people just sponsored, and REVU'd, without coding, wasn't very satisfying.  I think there's a balance somewhere.
<ScottK> pkern: No, but it's where almost all the coordination happens, so it's hard to keep up without it.
<persia> pkern: I think so.  Debian is based on email.  Ubuntu is faster because of IRC (or at least, that was one of the arguments back in the noname days)
<persia> ScottK: Are you sure?  I did some things while I was away, but I'd argue "away" is the right phrase for not having a presence on IRC.
<ScottK> Sure about not being mandatory?
<persia> ScottK: Yes.
<ScottK> There's no rule.
<pkern> That would suck because IRC is known to eat time.
<ScottK> It's just hard to know what's going on with the rest of the distro.  If what you are doing doesn't require that, then it's fine.
<ScottK> pkern: Agreed.
* persia acquieses, with the provisio that's it's really helpful
* ScottK has made promises to himself to spend less time on IRC after the Gutsy release.  We'll see.
<ScottK> pkern: Your sync is done.  Still need to wait for an RM to accept it into the archive.
<broonie> ScottK: The spoon feeding thing can be dealt with if the mentor sets up good expectations about the level of handholding.
<broonie> That does require work on the part of the mentor, though.
<ScottK> Right.  IMO the ones that need the spoon feeding aren't going to do much after you quit, but that's just me.
<persia> broonie: It's more than that: it's a general model.  For a while, we were just nitpicking about things, and it would have been faster just to do it (and probably taught the contributors more).  It's about philosophy as well as expectations.
<broonie> Yes. You can really help the people who don't need spoon feeding.
<persia> ScottK: I'd disagree.  The first time I patched vegastrike, a MOTU practically wrote the patch for me.
<zul> hobbsee not around yet?
<broonie> persia: I think that's just the same thing I'm saying, expressed a different way.
<persia> broonie: Possibly.  I get caught up in semantics.
* ScottK views helping as different than spoon feeding.
* broonie often uses a format along the lines of "I noticed these problems by doing such a set of checks, you probably want to fix them" (possibly with advice on how depending.
<ScottK> Or if it's minor, ... and I fixed them and uploaded it.  Next time ...
<persia> broonie: That's not always enough.  MOTU/Contributing explains exactly how to run lintian and linda, and still 90% of the time, requests for package reviews have not been checked.
<persia> ScottK: I like that better.
<broonie> persia: I know. :(
* ScottK wishes someone would kick Martinp23.
<persia> Why?
<ScottK> Because he's been ponging in and out of the channel every two minutes for the last several hours.
* pkern /ignore martinp23 joins
* persia reviews the scrollback and agrees
<broonie> That's where being clear about what you're doing comes in - making it clear that you're not there to run the tools for them, for example.
<pkern> irssi to the rescue
<pkern> I still run "the tools" on every sponsored Debian upload. ):
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.  Works in Konversation too.
<broonie> (note that I've not tried mentoring MOTU but I'm assuming the problems are similar to things like Debian.)
<fernando> moin all
<ScottK> Yes, although the spoon feeding expectation here is substantially higher I think.
<persia> broonie: It's a little different, because new contributors are (or should be) encouraged to work on existing packages, rather than new ones, but otherwise similar.
<persia> And, yes, there's a much greater expectation of support.
<broonie> Yes - the reviewing part is the same.
<pkern> We filter more requests for sponsorship simply because they are badly made up.
<persia> broonie: Somewhat.  We do a lot of per-bug review, similar to non-DD contributions to some Debian teams, as well.
<ScottK> Good evening Hobbsee.
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<dholbach> ScottK: no, no decision has been taken? how do you come to that conclusion?
<dholbach> ScottK: the whole point of the meeting is to find out more before we can decide anything
<dholbach> ScottK: what "old mentoring" are you talking about?
<dholbach> ScottK: which "new mentoring"?
<dholbach> persia: which contributing page? which rule of thumg?
<dholbach> thumb
<ScottK> dholbach: The way the adenda is written it seems to presume the new program will continue.
<ScottK> dholbach: Old way was informal without the bureacracy.
<persia> dholbach: w.u.c/MOTU/Contributing: "Once you've contributed widely over at least two release cycles, and a couple members of ubuntu-dev have suggested you should, please consider [:UbuntuDevelopers:applying]  to join the [:MOTU:MOTU]  team."
<ScottK> It's definitely faster than that in many cases.
<dholbach> ScottK: we had the discussion before: it's not mandatory at all to have a mentor
<ScottK> dholbach: Agreed.  I think that people don't understand that.
<dholbach> ScottK: we are trying to find a way for people who don't know where to start etc etc; it's hard to keep track of mentorees and people need guidelines
<persia> ScottK: it wasn't really between dapper and feisty, but yes, it appears to be now
<dholbach> ScottK: a lot of people do and don't have a mentor
<ScottK> dholbach: I've run into people who thought they couldn't contribute because they hadn't been assigned a mentor.  Not many, but it's happened.
<dholbach> persia: I did not do that change - I don't think it should be on that page
<persia> ScottK: I think you have a good point: come to the meeting, and let's all determine a good way to present it to all parties.
<dholbach> ScottK: we should clarify that
<ScottK> dholbach: I think it's a risk inherent in the existence of the formal process.
<dholbach> ScottK: please try to not assume that the people who run the mentoring are only there to make things more complicated :-/
<persia> dholbach: Last changed by dholbach2 :)  Would you mind putting the right text in, with your council hat on?
<ScottK> dholbach: I don't think that's the goal.  I think it MAY be the effect.  I'm not judging.
<dholbach> it'll be good to have your input in the meeting
<dholbach> I was just a bit ... surprised ... that you assumed we had already decided something before we asked for input in an announced meeting
<dholbach> persia: the bit was added to the page by the 'initial draft' commit
<dholbach> persia: but I'll change it no problem
<persia> dholbach:Oh, yes.  I put the two weeks there, but I don't speak for anyone but me.  I'm mostly concerned because you edited next to it, and I wasn't sure if you endorsed it, but it might appear that way from the logs.  Thanks for updating it to match current practice.
<persia> s/weeks/releases/
<ScottK> dholbach: The way the agenda is written, it reads like continuing the program is assumed.
<ScottK> At least to me.
<ScottK> I will come to the meeting if I'm available.
<dholbach> ok great
<ScottK> dholbach: One data point along these lines, when I recently suggested to someone that I thought they were ready to apply for MOTU, the response I got was that their mentor hadn't told them they were ready and so they couldn't be.
<persia> ScottK: re: fluxbox.  Debian just merged it, but given the publishing schedule, I won't be able to process the new revision for ~44-46 hours.  I'll chase it then, but if you find a willing volunteer anytime after the next Debian publish, and then, please feel free to share it :)
<ScottK> persia: OK.
<Fujitsu> persia: We can always grab it from incoming.
<persia> Fujitsu: Please share: I could process now, if I had the debian package.
<ScottK> dholbach: Do you know someone that could look at Bug #150765 and turn it into a UVFe?  At a glance going from and RC to a final with bug fixes would be a good thing.
<Fujitsu> persia: incoming.debian.org
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150765 in fluxbox "WISHLIST: Fluxbox1.0.0 Final included in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150765
<Fujitsu> It should be there.
<dholbach> ScottK: what I see is: some new contributors have a need for dedicated one-on-one mentoring, we have people who are willing to do it, norsetto_limbo, highvoltage and I are trying to find a way to make it 1) not clash with existing processes/workflows, 2) the least painful way (by adding guidance, etc.)
<dholbach> we need to look at the whole problem and try to find a good way for it
<persia> Fujitsu: No.  Perhaps a run just happened, and I didn't find the right status page.  Thanks for the pointer: this will likely make me more productive in the future.
<ScottK> dholbach: I'm curious to know how many MOTUs this makes that wouldn't have made it anyway.
* persia doesn't believe MOTU should be a goal
<dholbach> ScottK: I've experienced a lot people who were very motivated because they were encouraged by people who took the time to talk them through things in one-on-one conversations
<Hobbsee> oh, fudge.  i forgot to put LongPointyStick in.
<Fujitsu> persia: It only runs every 24 hours, and hasn't run within the last 12, but the look of things. So...
<dholbach> if they would have made it without that, who knows
<dholbach> new contributors ask for it
<ScottK> dholbach: Agreed and I've done that lots without a process.
<dholbach> just giving them a bunch of links and tell them to write to ubuntu-motu@ does not work for everybody
<highvoltage> (not that I can claim to be 1/100th as cool as dholbach or norsetto)
<dholbach> ScottK: and I appreciate that
<persia> ScottK: Sure, but it's annoying to get email from an interested person who doesn't IRC who wants to help when one is busy.  Better to have organisation to spread the load.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Apparently I was wrong to Won't Fix Kmos's non-UVFe for Gutsy, I should have taken the time to edit the bug to be for Hardy.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: right.  i think i did with one of his earlier
<ScottK> persia: Mailing list works for that.
<dholbach> but it doesn't work for everybody, some people are intimidated
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I liked your succinct response to that.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It gets down to him making more work for me which is not high on my list.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Unforntunately it was "wrong".
<persia> ScottK: Perhaps, but I still received some personal inquiries pre-mentoring, and don't know (and others likely received more, as I wasn't MOTU when I started getting them)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: then unsubscribe u-u-s, and motu-uvf, and he can stay subscribed to the bug.
<dholbach> ScottK: come on
<Hobbsee> but it's much easier to mark as WONTFIX, as he likely wont ever action the bug for hardy anyway
<ScottK> dholbach: My threshold with him is zero.
<dholbach> hey guys, you know which effect it has on people if you just close their bugs
<ScottK> dholbach: That would be benificial in this case.
<dholbach> "this is hardy material" would have been a comment that would have had a different effect
<philn> i'm submitter of #150893 and #150929 that are UVF requests for both pigment and elisa packages. If you have any question don't hesitate to ask
<Fujitsu> dholbach: It /is/ Kmos...
<persia> dholbach: Not everyone responds well to encouragement.  Some people need a little stick with their carrot.
<dholbach> persia: right
<dholbach> ScottK: so what about fluxbox? what shall I do with the bug?
<Hobbsee> kmos and shirish, it's right to close their bugs - they're actually more productive.
<Fujitsu> Ah yes, Shirish.
<persia> dholbach: Nevermind.  Fujitsu has lead me to sources to let me do it.
<Fujitsu> He does like to file bugs request new upstream versions.
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, you found them?
<Fujitsu> Ah, they're published.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i havent seen anything from him in a while
<persia> Fujitsu: Not yet, but at least I know they were caught by the last run.  Now I just have to find a mirror that has updated since then (as I can't get to ftp-master)
<dholbach> I just shared my view on the bug, I did not say "don't do this ever again, or else..."
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: but regular dosings of me calling him an idiot *does* make him more sensible, and thinking a little more.
<dholbach> I have sympathy with what you went through
<ScottK> dholbach: I hear you saying that, but I don't see it in your actions.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: of course, the fact that he wants me to yell at him, and beat him up, due to who i am is just sick...but still.
<ScottK> Apparently I'm supposed to deal with infinite amounts of it.
<dholbach> was that bug on the motu-uvf list?
<ScottK> dholbach: No, but it was on UUS.
<rexbron> Question: If an app needs to compile against packages in multiverse, does that bar it from inclution from universe?
<ScottK> rexbron: Yes.
<dholbach> Ok.
<ScottK> It goes in Multiverse.
<persia> rexbron: Yes.  The package must be multiverse
<rexbron> persia: ug.
<rexbron> the situation is as follows:
<persia> rexbron: Why ugh?
<dholbach> ScottK: I'll mail him now - he should have known better
<Hobbsee> dholbach: they say that every time.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: who says what?
* Hobbsee is starting to think of the definition of insanity here.
<rexbron> persia: afaik, Ubuntu Studio's policies it not to ship any multiverse packages by default
<Hobbsee> dholbach: that he should know better.
<ScottK> And yet he doesn't.
<persia> rexbron: That's everyone's policy.  Some of that is illegal in some places.
<Hobbsee> and that $person will $talk to him so that he becomes sane.
<rexbron> persia: i see
<ScottK> I will give him credit for stopping spamming backports after I slammed him just once.
<dholbach> ScottK: what do you mean?
<persia> rexbron: Is there a way the package can be built without multiverse?  Suggests is permitted.
<ScottK> He started filing a bunch of backports that were, ummm, not all well thought out.  I pointed out that maybe we didn't want to backport the whole archive and he stopped.
<dholbach> Ok
<rexbron> persia: openlibraries is for harware accelerated graphics processing, it can be built without nVidia's cg-tools package and nVidia gelato, but afaik the performace benifits are negated
<persia> rexbron: Do the performance benefits come back if the nVidia packages are later installed?
<rexbron> persia: I am currently trying to build the openlibs :)
<rexbron> persia: so I will find out sooner or later
<persia> rexbron: Understood.  If you can build them in such a way that they dynamically link against either nVidia or mesa, depending on which is installed, you can depend on mesa, and the user can get the benefits if they install nVidia, it would result in a working package suitable for universe.
<rexbron> cool
<ScottK> philn: I'll have a look at your bugs.
<persia> Anyone have any suggestions for an agressively up-to-date debian source mirror?
<philn> ScottK: thanks!
<ScottK> philn: The bug fixing is good, but there is lots of other stuff in there too.  How much testing on Gutsy has this had?
<ScottK> persia: I can try and grab it for you.
<ScottK> Let me look.
<philn> ScottK: Elisa 0.3.2 got a bunch of improvements to work well on Gutsy, most Elisa developers also use Gutsy on a daily basis
<persia> ScottK: I've got it.  Issues with http vs ftp on incoming were confusing me.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I won't pull it down then.
<philn> ScottK: we fixed XDG-user-dirs, and some hal/dbus issues we encountered with 0.3.1
<ScottK> philn: If you could add some discussion in the bugs about the testing that was done, that would be helpful.
<philn> ScottK: ok, will do so
<norsetto> bluekuja: I'm now, whats up?
<bluekuja> norsetto: I've seen your mail in fridge-devel
<norsetto> bluekuja: you will be there I hope?
<bluekuja> norsetto: you should post only if you are sure of the date/time
<bluekuja> norsetto: yeah, I hope so
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> norsetto: decided to include it inside MOTU meeting?
<norsetto> bluekuja: I can't impose a date/time, I can only propose
<norsetto> bluekuja: no, not inside, just after
<bluekuja> norsetto: yeah, talk with others, and then send a mail with the right date/hour
<norsetto> bluekuja: ok, you take care of this fridge thingie?
<bluekuja> norsetto: yup
<bluekuja> norsetto: but please talk with every reception admin
<ScottK> norsetto: Why is it not in the MOTU meeting?  Seems to me it's a general MOTU process issue?
<norsetto> bluekuja: good, keep it on hold then
<bluekuja> norsetto: I will, let me know what the final decision will be at the end
<norsetto> scottk: becuase it deserve a dedicated discussion I think
<bluekuja> norsetto: and when completely sure post a confirmation mail
<bluekuja> so I can add the event
<bluekuja> ;)
<norsetto> bluekuja: will do
<ScottK> I'm not sure how the 5 minute wrap up of standing topics would detract.
<bluekuja> norsetto: thanks
<norsetto> ScottK: I don't know about that scott, I can only presume
<persia> norsetto: How long do you imagine the discussion requiring?
<norsetto> persia: since you discussed it all already this afternoon, 5 min?
<norsetto> persia: seriously, I think it might be long
<persia> norsetto: Um.  I have at least 10 minutes of things to say :)
<ScottK> norsetto: dholbach will no doubt roll his eyes when he reads this, but the main purpose of MOTU meetings is to discuss how MOTU works.  If the mentoring process is part of how MOTU works, then it ought to be in the MOTU meeting.  If this is a special meeting just for the people who are involved in the mentors process, then fine.
<persia> norsetto: OK.  I suppose I should be glad it will be my Friday night.
* persia agrees with ScottK (oddly, twice in a single day)
<norsetto> scottK: no, its not just for people involved with mentoring
<norsetto> scottk: which you do btw, just not officially
<ScottK> I thought not, so I think it should be on the agenda for a MOTU meeting (it woudn't be unreasonable to limit other topics, although that hasn't been a problem recently).
<norsetto> scottK: I thought it deserved a space on its own, but, personally, I'm happy if you guys decide it to be part of the regular MOTU meeting
<persia> Another argument for adding it to the MOTU agenda is that people have already made arrangements to be available then.  Adding another hour may be difficult for those who find themselves in a workplace at that hour, or wish to sleep.
<dholbach> I agree with norsetto
<dholbach> it's going to be a longer discussion
<ScottK> norsetto: I know.  That's part of why I don't like having a separate process.
<persia> Ah.  If it's going to be extra-long, perhaps a different meeting is better.  The audience is limited, but the results may be more useful.
<dholbach> ScottK: hm?
<ScottK> persia: I don't think the audience should be limited.  This concerns all of us.
<dholbach> ScottK: it was sent to ubuntu-motu{,-mentors}
<dholbach> ScottK: I wouldn't call that limiting the audience
<ScottK> dholbach: I think having "Mentors" is a distraction from all of us mentoring.
<persia> ScottK: I'd agree with that, but a smaller audience developing a proposal for review at the following MOTU meeting might be a better use of time.
<ScottK> dholbach: That was a response to persia's comment about limited audience.
<dholbach> ScottK: Ok, let's discuss this in the meeting itself
<ScottK> persia: I think this is meant to be a general review of how the process is working, so it ought to be general.
<ScottK> dholbach: That's fine.
<persia> ScottK: Perhaps.  I don't think process detail arguments are interesting to everyone (you and I are vocal exceptions), but I agree everyone should be involved in the decision to adopt.
<philn> ScottK: ok i added new comments on the bugs
<ScottK> philn: I just acked them.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Got a minute for motu-uvf work?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: perhaps
<ScottK> Bug #150893 Bug #150929
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150893 in pigment "Pigment needs update to 0.3.2 (from 0.3.1)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150893
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150929 in elisa "Elisa needs update to 0.3.2" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150929
* pkern sync still not accepted. Bah.
<ScottK> pkern: I asked pitti, but I guess he's got better things to do.
<persia> pkern: Have patience.  Also, did you link the CVEs to the tomcat bug?  That tends to add focus.
<pkern> persia: It's not about Tomcat.
<persia> pkern: I thought you were waiting for the tomcat dependency sync.  My apologies.
<pkern> i.e. tomcat isn't referenced anywhere.
<ScottK> This is the prerequisite for Tomcat.
* persia thinks mentioning it's a prerequisite for fixing two tomcat CVEs would help get attention.
<ScottK> persia: Mostly stuff's been getting accepted pretty quickly, so if it's not, I'd imagine their hair is on fire over something.
<persia> ScottK: True.  It's not actually been that long.
<DaveMorris> Hi, I've got my package where I create my shared objects with foo.so.1.0.0 however I'm unsure as to how I get it to install with sym links, pointing from foo.so to foo.so.1.0.0 Can someone point me to some documentation on how to do it please?
<persia> DaveMorris: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<DaveMorris> thanks
<Hobbsee> ScottK: both fine by me, please upload
* persia wonders why installing xserver-xorg pulls in cairo, gtk, atk, and pango
<DaveMorris> one last question.  It contains 5 share objects, and the soname's don't match the package name.  Is this ok, or does it need to be broken down into 5 smaller packages?
<ScottK> philn: How soon will those be in Debian?
<philn> ScottK: Loc Minier needs to review my changes on the package, he told me he'd do it one evening this week or this weekend
<persia> DaveMorris: It depends on the content.  If the libraries are useful independently, it should generate 10 small binary packages (libfoo + libfoo-dev).  If they are only support libraries for each other, and there is only one or two real clients, one package is acceptable (but not preferred).
<ScottK> philn: That may be to late for Gutsy.
<ScottK> philn: Can you prepare -0ubuntu1 versions for Gutsy and upload them to REVU?
<ScottK> doko: How is it looking for your ia32-libs upload today?
<philn> ScottK: yes, I can prepare them. do I require sponsorship for upload?
<ScottK> Yes.  I'll look at them today if you can get them to REVU.
<ScottK> philn: Have you uploaded to REVU before?
<philn> no
<ScottK> !REVU | philn
<ubotu> philn: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ScottK> That'll tell you what needs doing so you can.
<philn> ok, thx
<ScottK> The key sync takes a long time to run, so do that first (it'll take longer than getting your packages prepared).
<philn> my GPG key is already in.. I registered for PPA few weeks ago
<ScottK> philn: OK.  You'll also need to joint the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-contributors/ team before you can get added to REVU.
<Hobbsee> ppa != revu
<philn> ScottK: just joined it :)
<StevenK> Never mind how much sabdfl which it was
<StevenK> Er, s/which/wishes/
<philn> Hobbsee: yeah I know, but registering on PPA required me to upload my GPG key
<Hobbsee> true
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you please sync the keyring.
* Hobbsee syncs
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> no problem
<Hobbsee> hi jono
<norsetto> can anyone please shoot martin23?
<philn> ScottK: what should the distribution field be in debian/changelog? gutsy, unstable, or something else?
<ScottK> philn: gutsy
<philn> ok
<jono> hey
<Hobbsee> norsetto: why?
<Hobbsee> oh, connection woes
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<norsetto> Hobbsee: all those opening and closing doors, the draft is killing my neck (there is old people here, you know....)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: He's been poning in and out of this (and many other Ubuntu channels) for four hours now.
<ScottK> poning/pongin
<ScottK> ponging even.
* ScottK gets more coffee
<zul> k-line him
* ScottK doesn't know what that is exactly, but hopes it's as painful as it sounds.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's a ticket on the ktrain.
<Hobbsee> chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga chuga CHOO CHOO!!!!!
<persia> For a UVFe, I have 1) the new package, 2) the diffstat of the debdiff, 3) the diff -u of ChangeLog, 4) the buildlog, 5) the installlog.  What am I missing?
<Hobbsee> persia: the bug?
<persia> Hobbsee: That's been there for at least 12 hours :)
<persia> Anything else?
<Hobbsee> ah right
<ScottK> persia: Adding 2 - 5 to the bug maybe?
<Hobbsee> i dont see anything
<ScottK> persia: And then subscribe motu-uvf to the bug.
<persia> Right then.  Thanks.  I find I really dislike the default configuration of fluxbox (except that it has sane DPI settings), so I'll be glad to get somewhere else to upload :)
<ScottK> philn: Also make sure you add (LP: #nnnn) to debian/changelog for each package to mark the UVFe bugs fix released.
<pkern> ScottK: Did you mean pkern?
<philn> ScottK: ok, thx for the tip!
<ScottK> pkern: No.
<ScottK> pkern: It might be good advice for you too though, now that you mention it.
<pkern> ScottK: Aye.
<persia> Bug #150765 is ready for critique
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150765 in fluxbox "UVFe Request: Fluxbox1.0.0 Final included in Gutsy" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150765
<ScottK> persia: You think it's a good change?
* ScottK looks
<persia> ScottK: No idea.  The required test from the FreezeExceptionProcess was the first time I've ever run fluxbox.  In general, I think "final" versions are better to ship than "release candidates", but that's just theory.
* Hobbsee sighs.  no staffers around.
<Hobbsee> persia: why do you have joins/parts enabled anyway?
<persia> Hobbsee: Huh?
<Hobbsee> oh, norsetto sorry
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's the default Konqueror configuration (at least for me).
<norsetto> Hobbsee: about?
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  Acked.
<Hobbsee> norsetto: the draft killing your neck
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you please have a look at persia's UVFe ^^^
<norsetto> Hobbsee: yeah, I know, its spelled draught, or whatever
<persia> ScottK: How many acks does it need before I retitle, modify the description, and subscribe ubuntu-archive?
<Hobbsee> meh.  persia wrote it, +1
* Hobbsee goes to look at the bug
<ScottK> persia: Two.
<persia> Hobbsee: Umm..  I'm an excellent bug author, but don't take my doing admin work as advocation.
<Hobbsee> persia: ack'd.
<ScottK> persia: You're approved then.
* persia goes to retitle, hoping someone actually uses it and will be happy
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.
<persia> Hmm..  Do I request a sync from debian unstable, or debian incoming?
<ScottK> persia: Or find some trivial change 'needed' and upload it yourself as a merge.
<persia> ScottK: If it was a codebase I'd seen before, I'd do that, but I don't trust myself with a new codebase this close to release.
* ScottK was thinking something like white space management problems in the docs.
<ScottK> I'll ask about incoming.
<Hobbsee> incomming is a pain to sync from
<persia> ScottK: I'll just request from unstable.  I suspect it'll be out of incoming by the time it gets processed.
<ScottK> OK.
* Hobbsee has no sync rights though, so bases this off what others say
* persia agrees it's a pain: there's no Release file to auto-determine URLs.
<pkern> Incoming does not even provide Package files for inculsion into sources.list.
<Hobbsee> pkern: iirc, it just syncs via dget from the dsc - but that's wild conjecture, and i may be on crack
<pkern> (Or rather: it does.)
<highvoltage> hi, I've joined the ubuntu-universe-contributors group in Launchpad (or at least, signed up to)
<pkern> (But for  buildds only.)
<pkern> Hobbsee: It does.
<highvoltage> is there something else I need to do to get my gpg key into REVU?
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: how long ago did you join?
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: about 30 seconds ago
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: darn.
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: why?
* Hobbsee is already doing a sync-run
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: how long until that happens again?
* highvoltage is patient :)
* Hobbsee does it again
<ScottK> philn: Just ping me here after your packages are uploaded.
<philn> ScottK: yes, sure :) I'm building pigment package now.
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: what does that mean? will the key be imported after the sync-run?
<philn> thanks to you MOTUs for approving my UVFs :)
<ScottK> philn: Next time it'd be nice if you aimed your "Let's fix all the bugs before Ubuntu releases" release a little earlier in our cycle.
<Hobbsee> highvoltage: keyring sync goes to LP, and imports the keys into the REVU keyrigh.  so, yes
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: aaaah
<Riddell> persia: is there a bug number?
<persia> Riddell: 150765
<philn> ScottK: yes, our initial release date was Sept, 25th, but we got late :(
<persia> Um..  bug #150765
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150765 in fluxbox "Please sync fluxbox 1.0.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150765
<persia> Riddell: I think it's still in incoming though, so it might be easier to wait a few hours.
<pkern> persia: Tomcat uploaded. So let's hope it builds. :-P
<pkern> (After approval.)
<persia> pkern: Great.  Thanks for chasing that.
<zul> uh should you do a test build before uploading?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> zul: tomcat is special - building is dependent on the unknowable
<persia> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya persia
<zul> persia: thats kind of dumb ;)
<ScottK> zul: It's Java.  Of course.
<persia> zul: I'm sure it's not intentional.  My personal bugbear unreliable build is drscheme.  I've uploaded a couple of revs, and never had less than 2 buildd failures that needed giving-back.
<zul> persia: sure but its kind of frowned upon
<persia> zul: It depends on the cause.  In the case of drscheme, it FTBFS if the buildd doesn't have enough entropy stored.  I don't know what tomcat's excuse is.
<pkern> zul: Now Tomcat is also the package with ~10000 Java WARNINGS, which reliably obscures everything. ;)
<zul> meh java should be shot
<highvoltage> ogra: should it specifically be client-image-$(arch)? or could I make it ltsp-client-image-$(arch)?
<highvoltage> ogra: ltsp-* seems to be more consistant with the current LTSP packages, and will make it, imho, easier for people who do things like apt-cache search ltsp
<philn> ScottK: sorry, i'm having problems to sign the source package i'm building :(
<ScottK> philn: What's the problem?
<philn> ScottK: i use pdebuild, have DEBBUILDOPTS="-S -sa -rfakeroot -k5B4E69BB" in my ~/.pbuilderrc, dpkg-buildpackage uses these options, but dpkg-genchanges only uses -S -sa options
<philn> i'll find a way to build these packages properly, sorry for the delay
<ScottK> philn: No problem.
<ScottK> philn: How about debuild -S -sa -k5B4E69BB
<philn> i'm using feisty on this machine, if my current build attempt fails, i'll setup my environment on the gutsy system i use for testing
<philn> ScottK: ok, managed to upload pigment package
<ScottK> OK.  I'm on a work fire drill ATM, I'll look in a bit.
<philn> ScottK: but the orig.tar.gz wasn't uploaded, should i do so?
<ScottK> Upload it again with the orig.tar.gz.  -S -sa should have included it.
<philn> ScottK: done! :) now processing elisa package
<ScottK> OK.
<bddebian> Man I hate my life some days
<bddebian> pkern: You bored?
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<philn> ScottK: uploaded elisa too. Recovered my REVU password so I can comment on my uploads
<ScottK> philn: Great.
<pkern> bddebian: No, got a FTBFS to crush.
<bddebian> OK
<pkern> Package cowdancer is not available, but is referred to by another package.
* pkern yays for the main/universe split.
<dholbach> hey geser, bddebian, pkern :)
<pkern> Hey dholbach (:
<bddebian> Heya dholbach
<dholbach> how's it going guys?
<bddebian> Just lovely. You?
<dholbach> a bit tired and about to call it a day soon
<pkern> Yeah libcommons-modeler-java does not even fail in a 32bit chroot, but fails on the i386 buildd.
<highvoltage> ogra: got my question I asked at 17:08?
<ogra> highvoltage, nope
<highvoltage> ogra: should it specifically be client-image-$(arch)? or could I make it ltsp-client-image-$(arch) instead?
<highvoltage> ogra: ltsp- seems more consistent with the existing ltsp packages.
<ogra> with the ltsp- prefix
<highvoltage> ok, kewl.
<pkern> Uh, according to Debian bug #444547 this is fixed in exactly the same version we synced.
<ubotu> Debian bug 444547 in libcommons-modeler-java "libcommons-modeler-java: FTBFS: tests failed" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/444547
<pkern> But we wouldn't know if it builds on Debian because it's arch:all. *gnarf*
<pkern>      [java]  Caused by: java.io.IOException: error resolving http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/dtds/mbeans-descriptors.dtd
<pkern> Bah
<pkern> Of course that doesn't fail here.
<ScottK> pkern: man-di often hangs out here and helps with Java stuff.  Maybe he has an idea.
<pkern> ScottK: I know it.
<ScottK> OK.  Just saying.
<pkern> ScottK: A case of "HEY CDBS DOES EVERYTHING FOR ME"!
<pkern> So I just drop a patch into debian/patches and don't include a trace of simple-patchsys.
<ScottK> Whether you want it to or not.  for/to.
<man-di> pkern: whats your problem with libcommons-modeler-java?
<pkern> man-di: We synced a newer version which needs internet access during build.
<bddebian> Hah
<pkern> man-di: Fixed by actually activating the patch the maintainer just dropped into debian/patches.
<man-di> pkern: please mail me the patch you apply, so I can fix it in Debian too
<dholbach> night guys - see you tomorrow!
* man-di leaves now, cu all later
<ScottK> philn: The only problem I see is that you need to merge the -1/-0ubuntu1 debian/changelog entries.  If I don't find anything else, I'll do that and upload.
<bddebian> Gnight dh
<bddebian> grr
<philn> ScottK: ok, great! lemme know if i can do something to help
<ScottK> So far it's all good.
<philn> cool :)
<ScottK> philn: The elisa binary gets some Lintian warnings.  I won't block uploading if you promise to fix them in Debian.
<philn> ScottK: hmm i'll have a look. I have commit access on pkg-gstreamer@alioth so I can fix these issues
<ScottK> Just run lintian -i on the .deb.
<philn> yep, recompiling the deb now to have a look
<ScottK> philn: Linda isn't entirely thrilled either.  Same deal.
<philn> ScottK: ok these issues are fixable ;) will fix the upstream ones in trunk now and the ones in the package too
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> philn: In general, it's a very good practice to run Lintian/Linda both on both the source and the .deb of packages.
<philn> ScottK: yes, next time i'll take more care
<ScottK> philn: Also for Uploads to Ubuntu, you need to adhere to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<philn> ScottK: so in this case Maintainer: is set to MOTU Developers, right?
<ScottK> Yes.  I'll take care of it for this upload.
<philn> fine by me; I agree
<ScottK> philn: Some warnings that should be dealt with for Pigment too.
<philn> ScottK: ok, i'll take care of them; I'm currently writting the elisa man page
<ScottK> philn: How about if you clean up as much of this stuff as you can today and I'll upload an updated package later today.
<ScottK> Some of the lib related warnings in Pigment are concerning to me.
<ScottK> Yummy.  My Kubuntu install only needs 76 new packages to install this stuff ...
<philn> ok; i'll finish that manpage later on, now looking at Pigment warnings
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> siretart: Upload notifications for REVU don't seem to get making it to the mail list today...
<ScottK> philn: Ping me when you have a new upload.
<philn> ScottK: yep
<coNP> re
<mruiz> hi all. How many acks do I need to concrete an UVFe ?
<philn> ScottK: you're talking about the soname warning? it's the only one I have, but indeed annoying
<bddebian> 2 motu-uvf members
<ScottK> mruiz: Two.
<ScottK> philn: That was Lintian and then Linda had another.
<philn> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> philn: I've lost it off my scrollback.
<mruiz> I asked because I got 2 acks (bug 141640)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141640 in ipod-sharp "UVFe ipod-sharp 0.6.3 -> 0.6.4" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141640
<ScottK> mruiz: It's approved.
<philn> ScottK: libpigment0.3-1: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libpigment-0.3-1 <-- I don't see anything wrong there.. I checked the sonames of all shared libraries and they match the package name
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> False positive then.
<philn> will try lintian -v to see if it helps
<ScottK> philn: Worse news is elisa wouldn't start for me.  I copy/pasted into the REVU package so you could see the exact error.
<philn> ok
<ScottK> Note that I'm using Kubuntu so you may have some missing depends.
<ScottK> siretart: Comments however are arriving ...
<philn> ScottK: ok, might be a missing dep. Do you have gstreamer0.10-plugins-base installed? it's not mentionned in debian/control
<ScottK> Then I'd imagine not.
<ScottK> No.  I did not.
<philn> ScottK: i'll fix that.. elisa indeed depends on gst-plugins-base
<ScottK> Starts now
<mruiz> ScottK, also I want to know when it'll be uploaded
<ScottK> mruiz: What are you talking about?
<mruiz> ScottK, ipod-sharp 0.6.4 from Debian (bug 141640)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141640 in ipod-sharp "UVFe ipod-sharp 0.6.3 -> 0.6.4" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141640
<ScottK> mruiz: I have no idea.  Just because I acked the UVFe doesn't mean I have any intention of doing the upload.  motu-uvf != uploads everything.
<coNP> mruiz: I can do an upload
<coNP> I am in a reviewing mood :)
<mruiz> :)
<ScottK> philn: I found the Menu icon too.
<ScottK> It starts, but it absolutely crushes the ancient laptop I have Gutsy on, so I can't tell if it works or not.
<philn> yes it requires good OpenGL acceleration support currently
* ScottK hasn't got that by a longshot.
<ScottK> I'll be AFK for an hour or two.  Ping me if you have a revised upload.  I'll get it in the scrollback.
<philn> can i upload new package with same revision or do i need to increment the revision number?
<coNP> philn: you *should* use the same version
<coNP> Or even something stronger :)
<philn> heh; ok :)
<man-di> back
<mruiz> coNP, can you review  ipod-sharp ?
<coNP> mruiz: I am doing that ATM
<coNP> mruiz: sorry for not notifying you about that
<mruiz> thanks coNP :-)
<coNP> mruiz: this is a sync. Am I wrong?
<mruiz> coNP, yes... it's a sync
<coNP> So you need a core dev
<coNP> Or how we call them this week :)
<mruiz> :)
<coNP> mruiz: are you a MOTU?
<mruiz> coNP, no yet... I'm still learning
<coNP> Actually you have ACKs from 3 MOTU(-UVF)s
<coNP> So I am not sure any more is needed
<mruiz> coNP, ScottK said me that 2 acks are needed, then my request is approved
<coNP> But anyway I give it some basic testing and subscribe archive admins if appropriate
<coNP> mruiz: yep, Hobbsee and he acked that
<coNP> That is two.
<philn> ScottK: re-uploaded elisa; only one remaining lintian warning about missing manpage
<bddebian> So get writing ;-)
<philn> bddebian: yeah i'm on it :)
<bddebian> If there is help, help2man is your friend :)
<mruiz> StevenK, soren: can you review the bug 148834, please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148834 in hipo "UVFe: please sync hipo from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148834
<Windkracht8> Hello, conflict in Netbeans package on Gutsy, Netbeans doesn't work with java sdk 1.5 with desktop effects enabled. I think Netbeans should be dependent on jdk 6.3, not 1.5.
<jpatrick> Windkracht8: have you filed a bug?
<Windkracht8> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netbeans5.5/+bug/150729
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150729 in netbeans5.5 "Netbeans not working after update to Gutsy" [Undecided,New] 
<jpatrick> ah good :)
<Windkracht8> I thought, I would tell you guys as well :)
<jpatrick> someone will get round to it, don't worry
<Windkracht8> another thing, Netbeans doesn't find jdk 6.3 by default
<Windkracht8> have to use the --jdkhome option
<Windkracht8> ok, I
<Windkracht8> I'll stop worrying
<siretart> superm1: upload where?
<siretart> hey folks, btw
<philn> ScottK: uploaded a new version with manpage :) No lintian warning shall remain now
<siretart> ScottK: re revu upload notifications, did you already talk to sistpoty about that?
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<siretart> huhu bddebian!
<coNP> Hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi coNP
<man-di> pkern: libcommons-modeler-java 2.0.1-4 uploaded to Debian, feel free to file a SYNC
<superm1> hi siretart
<superm1> i think your referring to mplayer from a few days ago?
<siretart> 08:35 #ubuntu-motu: < superm1> Fujitsu, siretart, slomo, how do you guys upload then?
<siretart> that's what I'm referring to :)
<superm1> siretart, ah okay.  yeah sorted that out
<superm1> it was because i had DEBEMAIL set
<superm1> so i couldn't debuild -S -sa
<ajmitch> hi
<superm1> since it wanted an @ubuntu.com addy in the maintainer field
<bluekuja> heya ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<philn> ScottK: i'm going home now, be back in 13 hours (i'm living in Spain). See you and thanks for your time!
<bddebian> Isn't dpatch-edit-patch supposed to apply existing patches first?
<coNP> bddebian: it is
<bddebian> Hmm
<geser> bddebian: are the patches listed in 00list?
<ScottK> siretart: I did not.  I should have.  Sorry.
<ScottK> siretart: I did, however, get one after I mentioned it.  So whatever it was seems to have resolved.
<bddebian> geser: Aye
<bddebian> They even apply fine with debian/rules patch ;-)
<ScottK> bddebian: You have to call it dpatch-editpacth newpatch lastpatchyouwanttoapply
<coNP> you can also use dpatch-edit-patch newpatch to edit patches up to newpatch
<coNP> OTOH you have to assign a number greater than the patches before, of course :)
<coNP> s/edit patches/apply patches/
<bddebian> ScottK: Ahh, I'll try that, thx
<ScottK> bddebian: Don't forget to add it to your 00list after too.
<bddebian> That part I did :-)
<YokoZar> ScottK: what's the status on ia32-libs and wine?
<ScottK> YokoZar: I'm pinged doko about his ia32-libs changes and haven't heard back.
<YokoZar> ScottK: ok, thanks
<ScottK> YokoZar: I've tested WINE on 32bit and I'm good.  If doko doesn't make an appearance soon, I'll upload your ia32-libs and follow it with WINE.
<doko> ScottK: please hold back, I'd like to avoid two uploads
<ScottK> doko: OK.  I only said that because I didn't hear back from you.
<ScottK> doko: What's your timeline for an upload?
<doko> ScottK: Wednesday evining UTC
<ScottK> OK.  I guess I can hold onto WINE one more day.
<YokoZar> That should be fine
<jtbl> ScottK: I was told on the forums to speak to you about the ia32-libs package
<ScottK> jtbl: Yes.
<ScottK> It was me that left the comment.
<ScottK> doko: jtbl here has a request for ia32-libs.
<ScottK> jtbl: What is it?  doko is planning on a new upload in < 24 hours.
<jtbl> libsigc++-2.0-0c2a
<jtbl> that is require to run skype 1.4 static on amd64
<ScottK> doko: Any thoughts on that?
<jtbl> and the ia32-libs package doesnt have it
<ScottK> jtbl: doko is doing the upload tomorrow, so lets wait for him to respond.
<jtbl> ok
<ScottK> He was here a minute ago.
<jtbl> also i wanted to talk about checkgmail and nspluginwrapper
<ScottK> SUre.
<jtbl> you mentioned the desktop file for checkgmail on the forums
<jtbl> the reason why we added that is because users requested it
<ScottK> jtbl: I didn't get a chance to look into your code in detail, but I noticed you had included that in your package and I was curious why.
<ScottK> Right, but what's the deficiency in the Ubuntu package that causes that?
<jtbl> nothing
<ScottK> Then I'm confused.
<jtbl> some users just want to be able to go to the ubuntu menu and click the checkgmail option and load checkgmail
<ScottK> I don't use the package myself.  Can't we just update the Ubuntu package for that?
<jtbl> sure
<ScottK> coNP: Are you still around?
<coNP> ScottK: not at all :)
<jtbl> actually whats checkgmail is supposed to do is load when you login to gnome
<ScottK> coNP: Would you work with jtbl and get his input on improvements we can make to the checkgmail pakcage?
<jtbl> but some users dont like it loading when they login
<ScottK> I can see that.
<coNP> Sure.
<jtbl> so we added the desktop file
<coNP> But now I have to leave. It is getting pretty late here in Europe.
<coNP> I have some 5-10 minutes now
<ScottK> coNP: Can you at least tell me if what jtbl suggest is reasonable and we can work out the details after you've gone?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-10
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
(slangasek/#ubuntu-motu) hmm, scratch that, it is installed
<persia> Do the language catalogs translate "Password:" as "Password:" for PAM, perhaps?
<slangasek> no
<slangasek> $ su
<slangasek> Contrasea:
<slangasek> gksudo still works, so maybe it's setting the locale somewhere first, dunno
<imbrandon> hrm you would think there would be an api or message passing specificly for something like this, scrapping dosent seem "proper"
<slangasek> there is an API.
<pwnguin> psh
<pwnguin> its called pam
<Konam> hi
<pwnguin> but nobody wanted to work with that when just frontending sudo might work
<Konam> the deluge gutsy package is bad, it works but not properly, take a look at it
<imbrandon> seems like a expect script hehe
<RAOF> Konam: Anything specific?
<ScottK> Konam: If you want someone to actually care, you are going to have to provide specifics.
<RAOF> Konam: Bonus marks for LP bugs.
<Hobbsee> mega-bonus-points for actually doing the work.
<bddebian> +1
<RAOF> -
* RAOF should move the enter key somewhere less accidentally hittable.
<StevenK> RAOF: Like off the keyboard entirely? :-P
<pwnguin> StevenK: can't do that, that's where capslock is slatd to go!
* RAOF finds the "enter is an additional control key" option
* persia points at gizmod as an amusing way to swap capslock & enter with the mouse scroll wheel, saving heaps of accidental clicks.
<RAOF> Konam: Of course, the very best way to ensure that no-one does anything about a problem is to pop up, make vague statements about brokenness, then disappear.
<Konam> RAOF i'm in the deluge channel to see if it is bug or something
<Konam> but thanks for your interest
<macd> Am I correct in thinking my pbuild env. needs all dependencies satisfied prior to building, or will pbuild try and satisfy those from repos?
<imbrandon> it will try to satisfy those
<imbrandon> as it bulds
<Hobbsee> more spam!
* Hobbsee pokes greeneggsnospam
<pwnguin> spam?
<macd> if it cant, to clarify, do I just install them to my system, or is there some way I need to isntall them into the pbuild chroot env?
<pwnguin> no
<pwnguin> the whole point is to make sure it builds anywhere
<pwnguin> so if you've gone and created the base, with universe enabled
<pwnguin> you'll need to figure out where the bug is =/
<RAOF> Konam: That's OK, thanks.
<ScottK> macd: You'll want to remove the depens on libmocha before you try to build it.  It's not in Ubuntu and not really needed.
* ScottK was paying attention earlier in the day.
<macd> ScottK, yeah the 1.2.4 orig.dsc doesnt have libmocha as a dep
<macd> soren, Im a bit confused as to why the debian package has it
<macd> eww so*
<greeneggsnospam> heh
<ScottK> macd: It's needed for some test stuff, but doesn't actually hurt anything if not present.
<ajmitch> macd: it does have it, in debian/control
<ajmitch> as ScottK says, testing only
* ScottK knows nothing about it however.  My sole contributions were to work on a project with a guy who uses rails and to sucker him in here to help figure it out.
<bddebian> heh
* ScottK is not kidding.
<ajmitch> then you've had more experience with it than I have
<ScottK> It wasn't actually hard as he's using Feisty for development and will upgrade to Gutsy shortly, so it was in his self interest for us not to mess it up.
<macd> if a package is in universe and meets the version requirements and pbuilder cant find it, uhh what then?
<ScottK> macd: Can it find any Universe packages?
<macd> I'm not exactly sure how to check that, It found debhelper and dpatch but those are in main
<ScottK> macd: What instructions did you use to set up your pbuilder?
<macd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto and Im on feisty.
<ScottK> IIRC that doesn't include enabling Universe.
<macd> that explains alot then ;)
<ScottK> imbrandon or ajmitch: I really need to concentrate on not messing up the code I'm writing as I'm about to do a release.  Would one of you please help macd enable universe on his pbuilder...
<ScottK> Anyone else for that matter...
<tonyyarusso> Could someone with experience understanding crash reports take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kompozer/+bug/148576 please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148576 in kompozer "kompozer-bin crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New] 
<macd> ty
<ajmitch> macd: the part about enabling universe is actually on that wiki page
<macd> the .pbuildrc I just saw that
<imbrandon> sure one sec lemme grab a drink, the short of it , do `sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login`
<imbrandon> err yea what ajmitch said
* ajmitch never has a normal pbuilder setup
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: I'd add to that request and knows something about why stuff dies on 64bit archs.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: good point
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: If you're around, would you be willing to try reproducing that bug?
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Ok, but it'd need to wait for the evening.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: That's still infinitly sooner than I'll have a clue what to do about it.
<imbrandon> bbiab
<RAOF> I'm looking at the backtrace, and it's... urgh.
<Jaearess> Hello all. I'd like to get involved in packaging for Hardy, but I'm not sure when people can start working on packaging for a new release. Is it when the tool chain is released (Oct. 25 according to the Hardy schedule) or is it some time later?
<persia> tonyyarusso: Do you have the hardware & can you reproduce?
<ajmitch> Jaearess: as soon as you feel like it, especially for new packages
<ajmitch> nothing can be uploaded to the archive until the toolchain is inplace & settled
<tonyyarusso> persia: I only have 32-bit running feisty, so probably not the best environment to test.
<ajmitch> but that doesn't stop people from preparing things to be uploaded
<Jaearess> ajmitch: Ah, I see. Thank you :)
<pwnguin> Jaearess: what did you have in mind that you would be doing?
* Hobbsee tickes ajmitch
<persia> tonyyarusso: Ah.  OK.  Briefly it looks like there's an issue discovering the current context for the spellchecker, but without a test environment it's hard to be sure.
<tonyyarusso> persia: as in figuring out whether aspell is present and if so where?
<pwnguin> Jaearess: if you haven't any experience with packaging, there's an intro to packaging that walks you through a hello world. that's probably the best place to start. you can probably have that down by the time hardy's open
<Jaearess> pwnguin: I'm not really sure at the moment. I was thinking of packaging somethings that people had reported on Launchpad as needing packaging and just whatever else I could do to help. I just know I want to give something back to Ubuntu :)
<persia> tonyyarusso: Take a look at the StatketraceSource.txt.  I think the problem is either related to the call in #3 or the call in #7.
<persia> tonyyarusso: Specifically, I think that mozRealTimeSpell, when enabled, is unable to do it's thing because it's not been told where to paint.
<persia> s/it's/its/
<ScottK> tonyyarusso: Just based on the topic, I wonder if Kompozer is doing something like Gramps was: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gramps/+bug/120569
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120569 in gramps "[gutsy]  gtkspell segfaults when trying to set the language on gtk.TextView" [Medium,Fix released] 
<Jaearess> pwnguin: Yeah, I've been looking through some of the stuff on the wiki; I just need to actually go through and work on getting packaging figured out.
<pwnguin> Jaearess: in that case, how about taking notes while you walk through packaging-guide?
<ScottK> Or reading what persia just said, nevermind I think.
<pwnguin> !info packaging-guide
<ubotu> packaging-guide: The Ubuntu Packaging Guide. In component main, is optional. Version 7.04.4 (feisty), package size 100 kB, installed size 612 kB
<persia> ScottK: No, that's the annoying API change in GTK memory management :)
<pwnguin> I know it's out of date, and it would greatly help if someone pointed out the changed needed
<ScottK> persia: OK.
<Jaearess> pwnguin: Okay, I think I'll give that a try.
<LaserJock> pwnguin: what's out of date?
<ScottK> persia: Anything that starts with G, I hardly know about.
<pwnguin> last i looked, i think hello world isn't up to date
<pwnguin> and i know upstream has a new version
<pwnguin> of hello-world
<persia> ScottK: heh.  Most of them are similar to thinks beginning with K or Q, except targeting a different API.
<LaserJock> pwnguin: it shouldn't be that bad
<pwnguin> LaserJock: well, the less barriers the better :)
<ScottK> Right.  I like server stuff.  Little/no annoying user interface stuff to deal with.
<LaserJock> ScottK: amen to that
<LaserJock> pwnguin: so you're volunteering to fix it then? :-)
<pwnguin> 'sides, if we get new people to file bugs against the packaging documentation and submit diffs, the better!
<persia> Personally, I like GUI and Audio bugs: they tend to be easier to fix, as the code hasn't been reviewed by as many people.  Mind you, deep GTK or QT bugs are frustrating.
<pwnguin> LaserJock: hey, no fair defending your work and then asking someone else to fix it :P
* persia thought that was one of the benefits of open source
<ajmitch> pwnguin: that's how free software works :)
<LaserJock> pwnguin: it's not my work, it's the communities work ;-)
<LaserJock> is anybody here in the Desktop Team?
<LaserJock> I need to find a project to work on that actual has bugs
<Hobbsee> kde exists.
<LaserJock> the one I'm working on now doesn't have much for bugs so it's not as interesting from a "let's learn how to use the tools" perspective
* pwnguin nominates gksudo
<macd> yay, it built, installed and my rails app didnt break with it.
<pwnguin> fixing bugs isnt exactly "learning to use the tools"
<bddebian> LaserJock: "project" meaning what?
<pwnguin> at some point it becomes "applying judgement and wisdom"
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: does Kubuntu have a "Desktop Team"?
<persia> LaserJock: Aren't there still a fair number of outstanding MOTU Science bugs?
<StevenK> LaserJock: "Riddell"
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: kubuntu-members
<Hobbsee> so, somewhat
<imbrandon> LaserJock: kubuntu-members
<pwnguin> does kubuntu need a NOT desktop team?
<pwnguin> kubuntu-kernel ;)
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> pwnguin: Kubuntu differs from Ubuntu primarily due to the desktop, so in a sense, the Kubuntu team is a desktop team.
<pwnguin> persia: that is the essence of my point, i think
<persia> pwnguin: Right.  Sorry.  My slow typing combined with your separated statement.  Apologies.
<LaserJock> hmm, it's just always bugged me that the Ubuntu Desktop Team is really the Ubuntu Gnome Desktop Team
<LaserJock> persia: I'm looking for upstream projects
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: the names get more screwy, and now that actually refers to a subset of canonical developers
<Hobbsee> or something.
<Hobbsee> i have a list of all the teams now, somewhere
<pwnguin> LaserJock: get me phred and phrap from upstream into ubuntu :P
<bddebian> Hmm, we don't have autopackage stuff ?
<Hobbsee> huh?
<persia> autopackage?
<pwnguin> why would ubuntu have it?
<bddebian> Sorry, trying to build a new game and he is using it :-(
<bddebian> apg++
<LaserJock> we have 0install, why not autopackage? :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: limiting crack.
<LaserJock> too late ;-)
<StevenK> That reminds me. I need to make checkinstall SEGV
<persia> autopackage appears to automatically download random libraries from the internet.  That can't be ideal.
<bddebian> Aye though apparently this apg++ think somehow makes linking easier
<StevenK> Easier than what?
<bddebian> Dunno I didn't even know WTF it was until I just googled it :-)
<persia> bddebian: It does make it easier, for a developer, or someone with a dedicated need.  It reminds me of why I prefer to avoid python packages (EZinstall)
<persia> StevenK: Easier than having the user hunt down the right libraries and install them, or waiting for the distro maintainers to package the software in the first place.
<ScottK> persia: Just patch the ezinstall stuff out.
<StevenK> persia: Ah yes, along with the fun "autopackage appears to automatically download random libraries from the internet."
<persia> ScottK: Right.  For C, I don't have to worry about that: if upstream is whiny about package dependencies, they provide the source of the libraries, so I can check if there are useful patches to extract.
<persia> StevenK: Indeed.  Context is suprisingly useful :)
<ScottK> Right.  Well right thinking Python developers don't use ez_install.
* persia thinks right-thinking developers also shouldn't use autopackage
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable to me.
<pwnguin> autopackage kinda sounds like a distro without a home
* ScottK is off to bed.  Good night all.
<StevenK> Or one that just piggybacks
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK
<persia> pwnguin: Sortof.  It's based on the concept of there being one true linux, with various distributions just means to get a base install, on top of which one uses autopackage.
<pwnguin> the whole thing reeks of "i hate finding rpms for fedora when I use mandrake!"
<persia> pwnguin: Exactly, except replace with linspire & MEPIS
<LaserJock> well, I'm seeing some interest in autopackage for science apps on the forums
<pwnguin> from who?
<LaserJock> users
<pwnguin> users or developers?
<LaserJock> for stuff that's not in Ubuntu
<persia> 0install seems safer than autopackage: it doesn't install as root.
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what a good response is
<pwnguin> my favorite line from the FAQ
<pwnguin> # What about security?
<pwnguin> What about it?
<LaserJock> at some point it's unrealistic to assume we can provide *all* software
<pwnguin> well, i'd say debian's pretty good at it
<persia> pwnguin: We've more than Debian (at least at the beginning of dev cycles), but that's still not everything.
<persia> Perhaps we should determine a "Ubuntu best practice" method for 3rd party preparations, and recommend it?  Checkinstall is out, but having something that lets upstreams make instant (if bad) .debs for distribution might help, and may even be better for users, as the software could then be uninstalled cleanly (unlike building from source).
<pwnguin> isn't it called dpkg?
<LaserJock> persia: I think I agree
<persia> pwnguin: That takes a fair bit or work to learn, and is a high bar for people who primarily develop for Mac & Fedora (for example)
<LaserJock> perhaps a dh_make2
<ScottK> One more thing... doko: Please consider adding libsigc++-2.0 to your ia32-libs upload so Skype will work on AMD64.
<imbrandon> well basicly that means make pbuilder ( and debootstrap ) distro independant, easy to install and give it a front end
<pwnguin> persia: easy and "best practices" might not go together
<coolbhavi> hello...... Can you please resync my keyrings to the revu uploader keyring so that I can upload packages..Please.. Everything is done according to revu wiki page
<LaserJock> well, if we had something that was at least PPA-ready
<macd> when I use dget to grab source, where does pbuilder store that?
<persia> imbrandon: That does the backend, but there's still the preparation of debian/rules, debian/copyright, and debian/control.  copyright is easy to do sufficiently (if poorly) from a form.  control is similar, although perhaps it needs something to check dependencies somehow.  rules is not always obvious.
<macd> I poked around in /var/cache/pbuilder but didnt see it
<LaserJock> macd: dget doesn't build the source package automatically
<persia> macd: pbuilder doesn't store it anywhere.  dget puts it in .
<Hobbsee> coolbhavi: it'll take around an hour
<imbrandon> persia: true the gui could mix dh_make and pbuilder, kinda like installshield builder does
<Hobbsee> checkinstall makes you specify your own vesrion # though, so may actually be safer
<Hobbsee> as in, easier ot reject teh bugs.
<persia> imbrandon: That sounds reasonable.  I'm still not sure about rules: there are so many exception cases.
<macd> persia, so If I need to make a change to debian/control I'll need to untar it, change it and retar it up? Im just a bit confused on a few things
<imbrandon> persia: yea nothing is gonna subsitute good old packing , but to make a "something for upstream to get by with" thing
<pwnguin> macd: just grab the source, unpack it, and debuild it back up
<coolbhavi> My launchpad id is https://launchpad.net/~bhavi.. please.......
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes, although checkinstall has other failings.  Perhaps just fixing checkinstall to be acceptable is a solution.
* Hobbsee liked it when it segfaulting.
<persia> macd: Use `dpkg-source -x fo.dsc` to unpack, and `debuild -S` to pack.
<imbrandon> if checkinstall has some dependancy checking would be nice
<persia> imbrandon: Exactly.  Even better, something that was pluggable, so that with sufficient chroots it could produce .deb, .rpm, .tgz, etc.
<imbrandon> definately
<imbrandon> sonds like a good project
<persia> (for extra points, produce .dsc/diff.gz, .srpm, etc.)
<pwnguin> this would of course require defining equivilent packages across dkg and rp
<pwnguin> m
<persia> pwnguin: No: it just means having a pluggable dependency analysis checker: check what gets dlopen'd, check the parent package, and assign a dependency.
<imbrandon> hrm lots of reflection
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> all done in the chroot
<persia> The problem I see is getting the initial set of build-deps to contruct.  Iterative, or source-inspection?
<pwnguin> thats what i meant
<imbrandon> well if it builds and runs on the host ...... hrm
<pwnguin> how do you define build-deps across debian / redhat?
<persia> imbrandon: That does it: build it locally, determine deps from the local build, and then pass to chroots.  Clean, and only requires +1 builds.
<persia> pwnguin: Watch the local build, and determine which files are used.  In the chroots, determine which package provides that file.  Add those packages as build-dependecies.
<imbrandon> yea, would require lots of work but i think its a great idea
<imbrandon> and would be WELL worth the effort, even if a package needed some manual tweaking to go into a repo its still does the major stuff in a point-n-clicky way accross distros, hell gentoo has debootstrap and iirc so does suse 10.x
<imbrandon> i'm sure there are ways to get base suse / fedora / mandrake chroots
<LaserJock> well, just getting a .deb solution would be great, IMO
<pwnguin> what exactly does this solve?
<persia> That would go a great way towards reducing checkinstall / 0install / autopackage / ezinstall / etc., as developers could easily produce distro-tailored binary packages, and source packages in all desired formats to ease distro adoption.
<imbrandon> i dont think it would apply to meta distros like freebsd ports or gentoo though
<persia> LaserJock: The problem with a .deb only solution is that it's not much better than checkinstall, but building the .deb / .dsc target seems a good first goal: with other distros perhaps adding their components if desired.
<pwnguin> if i'm a developer for say suse, and i want an easy way to deb
<LaserJock> no, I didn't mean .deb only
<pwnguin> how does the chroot work?
<LaserJock> I meant not worrying about .rpms, etc.
<imbrandon> pwnguin: you know how bsd jails work ?
<persia> pwnguin: Unpack the tarball, chroot into the minimal ubuntu, pbuild.
<pwnguin> ah.
<persia> LaserJock: I think it's worth worrying about sufficient abstraction to easily allow RPMs later, but I'd agree for a first pass.
<pwnguin> so we're talking everyone carries an debian / ubuntu minimal build env
<persia> pwnguin: The tool would presumably have minimal tarballs for all desired target environments.
<imbrandon> no only upstream packagers that wish to use this tool
<bddebian> I thought everything was going to be in some VCS so we are all saved anyway? :-)
<persia> bddebian: How does that help for things we haven't packaged?
<pwnguin> but how does the unpacker know which extra packages i need to install?
<bddebian> Dunno but it's some kind of cure-all I hear ;-P
<imbrandon> pwnguin: from the local build that the upstream developer surely already has going
<persia> pwnguin: It doesn't.  The sbuild or pbuilder process downloads the build-deps as required for the minimal chroot build.
<pwnguin> so step one build locally and watch to see which files / headers are accessed
<imbrandon> pwnguin: think of this as more of a MOTU-in-a-box for upstreams to use *instead* of them only providing a tar.gz for users to resort to checkinstall
<pwnguin> step two build a .dsc etc and pbuild a deb
<persia> pwnguin: I'd say 1) local build, 2) analysis of local build, 3) build .dsc, 4) build n .debs, but otherwise yes.
<pwnguin> i guess the other problem is
<pwnguin> build deps missing / version problems?
<RAOF> pwnguin: You mean "missing in $DISTRO", yes?
<imbrandon> somethings will always have to be checked and most auto* stuff will check the versioning when building
<imbrandon> if $dist is missing it
<persia> pwnguin: For missing build-deps (the dependency also isn't packaged), the build would fail (with a log).  For version conflicts, the build fails, and upstream version X isn't supported for distro Y.
<persia> If upstream wants to be fancy with super-portability (e.g. parallel code paths for QT3 vs. QT4), then there is wider support.
<imbrandon> rember too this doesnt have to be a 100000% end all, we're looking for something inbetween checkingstall and MOTUship
<imbrandon> ( with a GUI )
<imbrandon> heh
<pwnguin> why the gui?
<persia> imbrandon: Even between checkinstall and MOTU Contribution
<imbrandon> people love point-and-clicky
<pwnguin> they still need to grab the build deps locally anyways
<persia> pwnguin: Easier to present multi-entry dialogs (e.g. template for debian/copyright).
<persia> pwnguin: If they are a developer, they probably already have the build-deps locally installed, no?
<pwnguin> there's also the question of automatic builds and GUIs
<pwnguin> persia: if they're the developer, then they outta be comfortable with the command line, i'd say. but if you think it'll be easier, hats off
<imbrandon> it would only need to be done for the initial packageing pwnguin , subsuquint builds could be done the "normal" automated way
<persia> pwnguin: Not easier.  Flashier.  More candy.  Easier to blog with screenshots.  These build mindshare, which is useful.  No reason it can't have a CLI backend.
<pwnguin> you just said it'd be easier to present multi-entry dialog
<imbrandon> automatix for MOTU's /me ducks
<LaserJock> well, I think helping upstreams get to us is a good thing
<LaserJock> and helping users help upstream get to us is a good thing
<persia> imbrandon: I'd disagree.  It's doesn't try to do all the stuff you'd do if you had the secret info, but rather it provides a scripted bridge for the uninterested.  Wait, nevermind.  You're right.
<imbrandon> persia: hehehe
<imbrandon> persia: you down for making any of this happen, i'm totaly psyced about it and actualy thinking about getting some design goals etc going
<persia> LaserJock: Do you think it would be easier to market a new tool, or overhaul/replace checkinstall?  Also, should we point at getdeb as a central location to advertise new unofficial packages?
<imbrandon> persia: +1 on the getdeb
* Hobbsee would be reasonably happy to say "let getdeb deal with all of that"
<Hobbsee> but then, who knows of the quality of the getdeb stuff
<Hobbsee> im' assuming we're still rejecting all their bugs
<persia> Hobbsee: getdeb still (softly) recommends checkinstall.  It'd be nice to have something a little cleaner.
<LaserJock> persia: problem with checkinstall would be that we don't have any control over it
<persia> Hobbsee: Ubuntu rejects the bugs, but LP upstreams may accept them, depending...
* pwnguin quietly adds google toolbar installers to his ppa and submits to getdeb
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, well.  but we dont care about them either :)
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> Hobbsee: As long as you have narrow enough vision when rejecting, I shan't complain :)
<imbrandon> heh Hobbsee you are so pesimistic sometimes , i care about ( some ) upstreams , watch the word "we" :)
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i was thinking in terms of bugs, and stuff that we personally would be fixing.
<imbrandon> tru tru , just spoutin
<Hobbsee> but i agree - as a wider issue, it's worth thinking about :)
<imbrandon> ok anyhow anything s better than checkinstall as is
<persia> LaserJock: Makes sense.  I'm not so concerned about control, as long as the results are useful.  Checkinstall already seems to generate .deb, .rpm, and .tgz.  Perhaps we can send patches to make the .debs better.
<LaserJock> persia: well, I'm just saying, can we just go "heh, we're gonna take over checkinstall, do you mind?"
<imbrandon> persia: yea i was thinking the same thing, or a fork just adding a step inbetween building and packing
<imbrandon> in checkinstall
<imbrandon> that does the dep resolution
<persia> I'd like to avoid a fork, but I think we'd get on better with checkinstall upstream if we prepared some patches for them, rather than just repeating "checkinstall makes crack".
<imbrandon> we would still need to make use of "clean rooms" though ( chroots )
<persia> imbrandon: Something simple like adding something for dependency generation would be awfully nice.
* persia prefers incremental adjustment to replace everything rather than rewrites
* macd pulls hair out
<imbrandon> heh depends on the job but yea i agree
<pwnguin> heh
* imbrandon prods google for checkinstall's homepage
<macd> I think I'm missing something seriously fundamental, Ive got the dsc, the source, the diff.gz which mentions changes to debian/* but nothing has a debian/* dir in it?
<superm1> perhaps something that runs ldd on the binaries, and then uses apt-file to find where they are coming from
<imbrandon> macd: `dpkg-source -x *.dsc`
<pwnguin> imbrandon: no wonder i cant access it; we cant both browse mexico's only http server :P
<superm1> it would grab a majority of the dependencies at least then
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> superm1: i was thinking exactly that
<persia> superm1: We can't guarantee the presence of apt-file: a network solution might be cleaner, but that sort of thing.
<superm1> persia, well make checkinstall depend on apt-file then
<imbrandon> heh
<persia> macd: That's normal.  The .diff.gz gets applied to the .tar.gz, and generates the debian/ directory.
<pwnguin> there can't be that many header files
<superm1> or at least recommend it
<pwnguin> just build a DB
<macd> a light upstairs just went off, thanks
<superm1> and then if it doesn't detect its presence, then a network solution to query packages.ubuntu.com could go too
<persia> superm1: Think cross-distro.  It'd be nice to get something better for checkinstall in Ubuntu, but if we can patch it so upstream can send it to everyone, we get better random crack out there.
<superm1> indeed.  your right it is always better to think on a more distro global scale with things like this
<persia> pwnguin: There's a potentially infinite number of header files: consider all the libraries that could ever be written, in all the programming languages that have been invented.
<pwnguin> good news
<pwnguin> nobody uses random infinite libraries
<imbrandon> the one thing this is gonna be tricky with is pythn packages
<macd> Should I leave the maintainer name alone? or change it to mine so I can sign it when done?
<imbrandon> you sign it based on the changelog
<pwnguin> macd: theres a script out there to fix it up motu style
<persia> imbrandon: Why python?  Can't we extract a fair amount of info from either setup.py or the ezinstall wrapper?
<superm1> imbrandon, well you can always parse all python source files for import lines too
<superm1> and do test imports if it came down to it
<imbrandon> hr,
<pwnguin> imbrandon: perl'd likely also be a pita
<imbrandon> hrm
* persia likes superm1's solution
<persia> Any scripting language is annoying : import, use, source, etc.  It just needs parsers.
* imbrandon hugs LaserJock for getting this convo going
<superm1> someone should get this down into a spec to work on for hardy
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<superm1> or at least discuss at uds
<imbrandon> superm1: yea i'm doing just that right now
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.  Please subscribe me to the spec when you get it up.
<imbrandon> k
<superm1> me too, i'll join in on this if its put up for a sprint at uds
<imbrandon> kk
* pwnguin files an ohloh request to survey checkinstall
<LaserJock> we should discuss something on ubuntu-motu/ubuntu-devel
<imbrandon> wow checkinstall is just a big bash script
<pwnguin> heh
<imbrandon> i'm just putting some things in a text file for now, i'll write a coherant spec after soem sleep tonight
<persia> imbrandon: Yep.  It's not very robust either: it assumes a fair amount about the running system, which is not always true.
<imbrandon> but just from an initial inspection i'm thinking after mabe some "basic" dep checking in checkinstall we might be better making our own tool based in part on checkinstall code/ideas and distro indep
<imbrandon> with an optional gui
<persia> imbrandon: That sounds good.  I'm in favor of a parallel path: basic fixes to checkinstall (with efforts to get upstream), and a better local tool to assist Ubuntu users who are upstream developers in producing preview debs.
* ajmitch hears madness
<imbrandon> persia: exactly
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: cover your ears.
* ajmitch rocks back & forth
<persia> ajmitch: It's silent.  Otherwise, adjust your bell :)
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> checkinstall as a way to produce 'you should do X' - maybe
<ajmitch> hi lifeless :)
<lifeless> as a way to make packages.... where do you live prey tell ?
<imbrandon> heya lifeless
<lifeless> hi guys, and gal
<RAOF> Hey lifeless
<Hobbsee> hiya lifeless!
<persia> lifeless: For context: we're thinking that patching checkinstall will result in something more useful than enabling autopackage.
<imbrandon> lifeless: hehe we're trygin to make a MOTU-in-a-box , lots of backlog to read, its not what you think :)
<persia> Further, replacing checkinstall with some guided .dsc/.deb builder that is relatively sane will further improve the random crack found on the internet.
<imbrandon> by dependancy checking, gracefully pulling off dh_make type things etc
<imbrandon> and clean room building with chroots/pbuilders
<imbrandon> to put it in 2 sentances
<pwnguin> seriously, we cant all visit the checkinstall website at once =/
<imbrandon> LOL
<lifeless> no browser == no random distraction
<lifeless> you should try it sometime
<persia> All the docs, etc. are available in the package.  `apt-get source checkinstall` (and don't `aptitude install checkinstall`: that's not the right command yet :))
<imbrandon> telnet www.asic-linux.com.mx 80
* imbrandon never uses aptitude
<pwnguin> well, im trying to find a cvs for ohloh
<persia> imbrandon: If for nothing else, you might like `aptitude download hello` and similar.
<pwnguin> it appears there's none
<pwnguin> unrelated: "Back around 1999, I was really interested in getting all of Debian imported into CVS (ugh!) so we could have all the benefits of pervasive version control. I've always been sad it didn't happen, especially since ubuntu did it. Although they seem to get less benefits from it than I would have thought at the time, go figure." (from joey hess's blog)
<pwnguin> all of ubuntu is in cvs/bzr?
<imbrandon> i read that a few days ago
<imbrandon> and no not afaik
<persia> Perhaps every Soyuz upload actually triggers a checkin somewhere :)
<LaserJock> well, the are planning on it
<LaserJock> *they
<imbrandon> no-source-packages spec from way back in dapper
<persia> LaserJock: Is it not implemented at all?  I thought there was at least some stubbing done.
<imbrandon> or something liek that
<LaserJock> well, they've got some code for it
<LaserJock> but it's gonna take awhile
<LaserJock> last I heard they were gonna just do it over some time
<persia> LaserJock: Do you know if there were plans to integrate with dget / dput, or will it all be bzr co, bzr ci?
<LaserJock> no, they are gonna to vcs imports of the packages
<LaserJock> the first thing is to just get everything into bzr
<persia> Too bad.  It'd be nice to have it automatically scrape the last changelog entry for a commit comment when using dput, but I guess that's harder to implement cleanly.  I do hope there will be something for dget.
<LaserJock> well, I did get them to make dget'able URLs for source packages
<LaserJock> anyway, I don't know much
<LaserJock> just I heard they're gonna try to import Debian into LP
<persia> I thought that was discussed at last UDS.  It'll be interesting, although I'm really not sure how useful it will be, nor how one might manage the synchronisation.
<imbrandon> brb
<macd> can someone have a look @ http://pastie.caboo.se/105611  Im getting a cant find sec key error (but its there)
<persia> macd: Make sure the name & email address in the changelog exactly matches the name & email address on the key.  In this case, you have "(deb sign only)" getting in the way.
<macd> I figured as much
<macd> I should just add that to the changelog then correct?
<persia> macd: You can override by using debuild -k, and sponsoring yourself, but it'll appear as a sponsored upload to the system, so  both names / emails will appear, depending on where in the interface you check it.
<imbrandon>                          macd debuild -S -sa -k940DEA9B
<macd> what is considered to be the best practice?
<persia> macd: I'd recommend removing the comment from the key, personally.  I think that's easier (although you have to remember which is the debsign key).
* Hobbsee uses -k
<persia> imbrandon: Hobbsee: with the new default package interface, it'll grab the email from the signing key for display in the non-changelog.
<macd> also by default it looks like dch -e grabs my local username@domain rather than my gpg info, is that expected behavior
<persia> macd: `export DEBEMAIL="David Portwood <dzp@bellsouth.net>"
<macd> yeah I have that in my .bashrc
<macd> maybe I didnt spawn a new session
<persia> dch -e should grab that.
<macd> hey btw thanks all of you for your help with this!
<macd> when Im done, should I just upload everything to the affected LP bug, and find someone to sponsor it?
<persia> macd: Follow the SRU process, and request sponsorship with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<macd> ok, I read the SRU process, youve been very helpful again, thanks.
<persia> macd: Don't forget to nominate for feisty (if it's not already done).  This doesn't affect the gutsy bug.
<macd> sure thing
<macd> persia, used dpkg-source -x foo.dsc, then went into source dir, made dependency changes to debian/control, used dch -e to edit the changelog, did debuild -S -sa, then pbuilder build file.dsc  but in pbuilder/results/file.deb still has a dependency I removed
<persia> macd: Interesting.  I suspect you've either a static depends in a binary stanza in your control file, or a build-depends that generates the dependency with ${misc:depends}.  As long as you build in a feisty chroot, you should be safe to install to a feisty target.
<macd> I notice after doing debuild -S -sa, the file.orig.gz doesnt have an updated timestamp, I thought debuild from within the source dir rebuilt the orig.gz file? doesnt pbuilder extract and use that to build?
<macd> ohh, nvm
<macd> answered myself
<macd> I do have %{misc-depends} in the control file, what exactly does that entail?
<macd> pending the rest of the dependencies are met, is it safe to remove that?
<persia> macd: That pulls in all the dependencies that you want based on the build.  You don't want to remove it, or at least you really want to understand why something was brought in that way, and that you really don't need it prior to removal.
<macd> gotcha
<macd> is ${misc:depends} defined anywhere?
<macd> Im just wondering b/c it keeps throwin this non ubuntu package in there *libmocha) and it will never install short of forcing it that way
<ajmitch> from what I saw, libmocha is only dragged in from the Depends: line, make sure that your package did rebuild properly
<ajmitch> eg that it has a recent timestamp corresponding to when you built it
<ajmitch> & that you ran pbuilder with the updated .dsc
<persia> macd: Just to confirm: libmocha doesn't appear in the control file (for either source or binary stanzas), nor libmocha-dev, and you are building it in a feisty pbuilder chroot, in which libmocha is not installed, right?
<macd> correct@ persia
<ajmitch> the original Depends: line is Depends: ${misc:Depends}, ruby, ruby1.8 (>=1.8.2-3), rake (>>0.7.0), rdoc (>>1.8.2), libsqlite3-ruby1.8 | libpgsql-ruby1.8 | libmysql-ruby1.8 | libdbi-ruby1.8, libredcloth-ruby1.8, liberb-ruby, libmocha-ruby1.8
<macd> ajmitch, I did remove it from the control file, then ran debuild
<ajmitch> being fun ruby stuff
<ajmitch> and then you went up to the parent directory & ran pbuilder from there on the new .dsc file?
<persia> macd: `debuild` or `debuild -S -sa -k...`?
<macd> http://pastie.caboo.se/105623
<macd> should help
<macd> debuild -S -sa
<macd> I ran pbuilder from the directory that contains the dsc file, yes
<ajmitch> & the timestamp of the resulting .deb?
<persia> macd: You probably want to use `dch -i`, and generate rails_1.2.4-1ubuntu1.dsc, just so you can debdiff the .dsc files and verify your changes, but that doesn't explain the problem.
<macd> ajmitch, I ran debuild from within rails-1.2.4/ at 1:00
<macd> and I didnt get a deb out of it :/
<ajmitch> that's expected if you used -S
<imbrandon> gnight all
<ajmitch> night imbrandon
<macd>  yeah but should it have changed the orig.src.gz package?
<ajmitch> nope
<macd> see ya imbrandon
<macd> ohh, then everything is right timestamp wise
<persia> macd: No.  That needs to preserve the md5sum: it should never change as part of the packaging or build process.
<macd> I dont know why its pulling in that libmocha then
<ajmitch> filterdiff -z -i'*/debian/control' rails_1.2.4-1.diff.gz
<persia> macd: is there a debian/control.in ?
<ajmitch> paste the Depends: line somewhere
<ajmitch> there isn't
* ajmitch has the source here
* persia defers to ajmitch, who is more expert in any case
<ajmitch> I am not
<macd> one sec, installing filterdiff ;P
<ajmitch> heh, sorry :)
<ajmitch> too used to having it
<macd> ohh is it not in repos?
<macd> or part of something else
<ajmitch> patchutils
<macd> http://pastie.caboo.se/105625
<macd> libmocha is def not in there
<macd> is it possible its some whack pbuilder error and I should rebuild it?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and always best to put in a changelog entry
<macd> I did
<ajmitch> with what version?
<macd> dch -e added reference to the bug, and mentioned removing libmocha dep
<macd> its in rails-1.2.4/debian/changelog
<macd> should I clear the results dir on pbuilder too?
<ajmitch> you must never change an existing changelog entry, but add a new version
<pwnguin> joeyh's blog is a great historic reference
<macd> ajmitch, ohhh
<ajmitch> so it would be 1.2.4-1ubuntu1 (for gutsy at least)
<pwnguin> like this gem: ""
<pwnguin> "<Kamion> pitti used to put patches in debian/patches/ that patched files in the debian/ directory, until we re-educated him with a stick"
<macd> ajmitch, so dont edit the existing changelog, make a new one ?
<ajmitch> pwnguin: almost as fun as patching debian/rules & reexecing it :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Eeeek
* persia gleefully imagines patches in debian/patches that insert additional patches into debian/patches that...
<ajmitch> macd: add a new version into debian/changelog, dch -i will do it
<macd> gotcha, thanks
<ajmitch> StevenK: fun, no?
<macd> is there any way to completely rebuilt my pbuilder just to rule out that possibility
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: hahaha, nice
<ajmitch> macd: you shouldn't need to
<macd> ajmitch, for feisty would be 1.2.4-0ubuntu0 ?
<ajmitch> preferably something like 1.2.4-1ubuntu0.1
<macd> ok
<ajmitch> though I can't recall the current agreed upon syntax for SRUs
<ajmitch> especially ones that are a new upstream version
* macd looks at the SRU wiki page
<macd> ehh doesnt really say
* ajmitch confirmed that a rebuild without the dependency really does remove it
<macd> ahh
<persia> macd: Take a look in the feisty proposed repository to see recent names.
<macd> I wonder what happened
<macd> well, I'll still build it and upload my debdiff and nominate it, at least the next time I do a package it wont be nearly this bad
<ajmitch> it's always a learning experience :)
<macd> http://pastie.caboo.se/105632
<macd> is that something I need to worry about?
<RAOF> macd: Yes, probably.
<RAOF> macd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField gives some details, and there's an update-maintainer script in ubuntu-dev-tools.
<RAOF> Or somewhere.
<RAOF> I *presume* you still need to follow that for SRUs, I can't think of a particular reason not.
<macd> yeah the SRU wiki page mentions that
<StevenK> Were we doing DebianMaintainerField for Feisty?
<RAOF> StevenK: My memory is hazy, but I think so.
<RAOF> That's a looooong way back.  Nearly 6 months!
<persia> StevenK: Near the end, yes.  It was adopted in January, and we figured out how to use it in February.
<StevenK> Ah. Then you need to do for Feisty SRUs, but not Edgy or Dapper.
<macd> http://pastie.caboo.se/105636  should suffice yes?
<dholbach> good morning
<jussi01> dholbach: morning Daniel
<dholbach> hey jussi01
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach!
<dholbach> hiya Hobbsee
<macd> should the debdiff on what Im working on be from the original feisty rails to the newly built feisty rails,  or from the upstream package to the newly built feisty rails?
<persia> macd: If there is a debian package, you want it to be against the debian package.
<macd> I have to wonder why not against the current feisty package?
<persia> macd: Volume of diff output.  One typically selects the smallest debdiff for submission to a bug.
<macd> k
<persia> macd: I don't typically due SRUs, but if you need a diffstat, take the diffstat from the debdiff between the existing feisty package and the candidate package, even though that's not the debdiff you're attaching.
<macd> persia, Im not sure I follow you there?  I should get the debdiff, then attach it to the bug, nominate it for feisty, the request a sponsorship to upload right?
* persia looks at the SRU process again
<macd> it says for SRU you should attach a complete source debdiff
<macd> I would assume that means b/t the 2 feisty packages
<persia> Bleh: this is written to imply MOTUs never file SRU requests
<Hobbsee> there would be some truth to that....
<Hobbsee> or at least, some of us bad MOTU's :P
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  See, if someone were to rewrite all the documentation to indicate that people of certain ages in certain sourthern districts were responsible for SRUs, you might act differently :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> but if it's truthful....
<Hobbsee> i wouldnt object to "the australians suck at doing SRU's, therefore dont ask for sponsorship from them, for SRUs"
<persia> macd: The general rule of thumb is to use the smallest debdiff that contains sufficient information to properly encapsulate all the changes for the new candidate.  This test isn't very clear.  I'd say you're pretty safe either way: as long as the sponsor can easily regenerate your candidate.  On the other hand, I don't do much with SRUs, so you may see other opinions.
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, I'm not sure we can go that far, but I think language that encouraged MOTUs to also make SRU requests would be good (unless we're following a "if you propose, you can't approve" rule.)
<Hobbsee> hm
<macd> would it be a safe bet to upload a debdiff for source and for the package, along with everything built?
<macd> or is that just extreme overkill
<persia> macd: Only the source debdiff is interesting.  That's the set of changes that is sponsored.  Any binary packages are just side effects useful for testing.
<macd> does pbuilder build a new source package?
<Hobbsee> uh?
<Hobbsee> pbuilder builds whatever you tell it to
<persia> macd: No.  It weakly simulates sbuild on the buildds to prepare binary packages.
<persia> Hobbsee: It can build source packages?
<Hobbsee> persia: well, it rebuilds sources at the end, yes.
* persia disapproves of automated source rebuild by the binary rebuild process.
<Hobbsee> well, i think it does, anyway
<Hobbsee> see the last few lines of build logs
<Hobbsee> althoguh you invariably have to build it again anyway, as it builds with -sd
<macd> Im confused as to how to make a full source debdiff, do I diff to the current feisty source package against the debian source I built the new feisty package with?
<macd> and/or how do I rebuild the source package with pbuilder
<persia> macd: There are some instructions on different ways to construct a diff for sponsor review from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing.  Look near the bottom of "Preparing New Revisions"
<macd> ok, I see
<macd> well, 7 houtrs later thats done
<macd> persia, the wiki page for sponsoring an upload seems to revolve around a script that wont run on my machine, how can I manually do this?
<persia> macd: manually attach the debdiff to the bug, and manually subscribe the sponsorship team.
<macd> ok, done, thanks again for all your help, hopefully next time this will go much smoother
<macd> hopefully if all goes well, maybe I'll just start picking all the sru related bugs out and do them ;P
<persia> macd: This is a good time for SRUs.  The dev archive is frozen, but there's bunches of bugs in the previous release.
<macd> Yeah, now that I know howto do this, and Im sure I
<macd> I'll have to do more to finish this out, I can move alot faster
<macd> but yeah, a good way to contribute
<BugMaN> hi all
<BugMaN> dholbach: good morning, now i'm ubuntu member ;)
<dholbach> congratulations BugMaN! :-)
* dholbach hugs BugMaN
<BugMaN> dholbach: thanks :)
<persia> dholbach: Do you have an opinion on maintaining the migration to dpatch for libvisual-plugins?  The patch looks sane, but it's perhaps annoying to maintain a different patch system.
<dholbach> persia: oh, I didn't realize that - what patch system is it using right now?
<persia> dholbach: It's just raw diff.gz, and has a big autotools change.  The candidate reverts the debian autotools patch, migrates to dpatch, and applies 5 useful bugfixes.
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> I'd rather he applied the 5 patches and put them into debian/applied-patches for reference or something - there's no need to unpatch the autoconf changes
<persia> dholbach: Yep.  The submitter doesn't want to only present the bugfixes, and the maintainer hasn't responded to requests for comment.
<RAOF> !packagingguide | contrast83: Read this one? ->
<persia> dholbach: The argument is that we don't want to use 1.7 anymore (true), and that it massively reduces the size of the diff.gz.  Note that the autotools update is completely sane, just hasn't attracted Debian interest.
<persia> (or rather, restoration of upstream autoconf)
<dholbach> persia: ok, that's fine with me
<contrast83> RAOF: ? Didn't get anything. I did start to glance over the guide in the repos, but stopped when it prerequisited make know-how.
<RAOF> contrast83: Ah, it seems that ubotu has gone walkabout again, sorry.
<contrast83> np
<persia> dholbach: OK.  I'm generally opposed to imposing patch systems, but if Chris hasn't done something with it by the next time I have some time at an Ubuntu system, I'll chase it.
<RAOF> contrast83: I'll hunt you down a bitesize kubuntu bug if you like :)
<contrast83> Sounds good
<dholbach> persia: thanks for taking care of that
<philn> hi!
* \sh is now a ubuntu initramfs hacker ,->
<RAOF> contrast83: So, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO#head-bf1f056ba36d8ea73f10c84156fdd84b543d2754 is a list of some bitesize bugs.  Any catch your fancy?
<RAOF> persia: Which "Chris" were you talking about there?  I thought I'd touched that bug at one point.
<persia> RAOF: Whichever Chris Daniel listed by my name in the request for action.  Could be you :)
<contrast83> RAOF: looking....
<RAOF> persia: :).  I was hoping to avoid the 3mb debdiff + autofoo, but...
<persia> RAOF: Me too :)  It's a 3MB debdiff, but the majority is a reduction of the 3MB diff.gz.  I'd recommend getting rid of 90_autoconf_fixes.patch (or whatever), and applying that raw, just to make it cleaner.
<\sh> moins ogra
* RAOF looks at the patches, and sighs.  Why would you write uint32_t when intptr_t exists? :(
<contrast83> RAOF: The only ones I'm seeing which I'd feel comfortable taking on (those related to .desktop files, mostly), are already spoken for...
<RAOF> contrast83: Hm, OK.  Got a pet kubuntu package, or kubuntu peeve (it's KDE, I'm sure there are lots :P)?
<contrast83> RAOF: That does bring me to another question though... As a KDE user that uses several GNOME apps, I've made alternate .desktop files for them so they fit better with the general language of KDE's .desktop files. Any idea whether those could be put to broad use somehow?
<pwnguin> hmm
<contrast83> Oh, and they also solve the problem of said apps showing up in multiple categories under the K Menu.
<pwnguin> i should probably pick up that slow suspend bitesize patch
<RAOF> persia: You mean apply all the autotools patches + the autoreconf patch just raw to the source?
<persia> contrast83: Ideally, we should have a single .desktop file that works for both GNOME & KDE.  It's possible to maintain parallel trees, but it's a big overhead, and harder to push to Debian, and even harder to push upstream.
<pwnguin> i always assumed my hardware couldn't suspend
<persia> RAOF: If I understand correctly, it's actually a reversion of a patch in the diff.gz, and a restoration to upstream.
<\sh> hey jono
* persia dislikes having a patch in debian/patches that reverts a patch in diff.gz: this just seems counterproductive, somehow.
<RAOF> persia: Plus an autoreconf to pick up the various Makefile.am & configure.ac changes, surely?
<pwnguin> apparently dpatch and friends are hated all around in debian
<contrast83> RAOF: I've got a lot of little tweaks I do on every installation of Kubuntu. I'll see about readying up a list of ones that might be suited for general use.
<persia> RAOF: Maybe.  I think DarkMageZ tested with 1.9, and upstreams worked fine for gutsy.
<persia> pwnguin: I wouldn't say that.  I've seen some very agressive quilt promoters.  It's hard to get consensus with 2000 people, of whom only about 150 ever do NMUs.
<contrast83> RAOF: One of them is just a .desktop file that's a link to ~/.kde/Autostart, placed in the System submenu. Think that could fit into the kubuntu-default-settings package?
<RAOF> contrast83: Quite possibly.  That sounds useful.
<contrast83> One of the most common questions I see in #kubuntu is "How do I add autostart applications?" :-P
<RAOF> contrast83: You might be wanting to talk to LongPointyStick, or ScottK or another kubuntuite about that, though :)
<contrast83> RAOF: Cool, will do
<contrast83> RAOF: Big thanks for pointing me in here.
<pwnguin> new slaves are always welcome ^_^
<contrast83> lol
<RAOF> contrast83: Heh.  Everyone's friendly in here :)
<jono> hey \sh
<RAOF> persia: It's entirely possible that some of 90_autoreconf could be dropped if I tried hard enough :)
<pwnguin> god, autoreconf is horrible
<pwnguin> you'd think there'd be a dh_autoreconf
* RAOF delegates that to pwnguin 
<pwnguin> ive already got plenty of fun on my plate
<RAOF> But what would it actually do?
<persia> RAOF: It's possible, but do take a look at the bug log before you do that.  Personally, I think you'd do better not to drop it (or at least I received some vitrol when offering to sponsor a reduced version previously)
<pwnguin> just call autoreconf i guess, so you don't have to have a gigantic patch for silly crap
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yeah, but then you have random versions of automake doing crazy things problems and such.
<persia> pwnguin: That's incredibly dangerous.  Given the level of magic, it makes build completely uncertain.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> autoreconf is already magic to me
<RAOF> Don't give the buildd's an opportunity to surrepticiously break your package, or they will :)
<pwnguin> psh
<pwnguin> they dont need excuses
<pwnguin> see amd64 and clocks
<contrast83> So, last I read, the "official" stance on Automatix is it serves an important purpose, but doesn't do so in a standards-compliant way. I've been working on something that would solve that problem (still very much in its infancy). Once I get it to a point where it's presentable, who should I show it to for critique, and maybe eventually, inclusion in main?
<pwnguin> contrast83: release early release often
<persia> pwnguin: Right.  The idea is that magic should be confined to packaging-time and runtime.  build-time should be predictable.
<contrast83> pwnguin: Ok. So release to...? Just Sourceforge or some site like that, or is there something more *Ubuntu-specific?
<pwnguin> contrast83: this sort of thing should likely be done in the open from the beginning, and seek commentary throughout, given the history of novices and this stuff
<persia> contrast83: Um.  First, state the issue in a way upon which everyone can agree.  Second, prepare a candidate for universe/multiverse, for input and testing.  If it's deemed critical enough, it may make it to main/restricted, but this shouldn't be a direct goal initially.
<RAOF> contrast83: Launchpad does code hosting :)
<pwnguin> contrast83: well, im sure launchpad would love it
<contrast83> Ok
<persia> contrast83: Any code host will do. LP, Google, SF, your private host, etc.
<pwnguin> if you're shooting for main / universe you have to release code anyways
<pwnguin> but give smart people a chance to review your work before your mistakes compound
<RAOF> And do work for you!
<persia> Rather, code must be released for inclusion: Soyuz only accepts source uploads.
<pwnguin> and multiverse?
<asisak> Hey MOTUs
<pwnguin> persia: how's multiverse possibly work then?
* RAOF heads home.  See you on the flip side!
<persia> pwnguin: All the source is available, but it's not all licensed in a way that's free.
<contrast83> Is there already work being done on such a project that I'd be better off directing my efforts to?
<contrast83> RAOF: Peace, thanks again.
<pwnguin> contrast83: have you seen Add/Remove programs in Gnome?
<persia> contrast83: Depends on which problem you seek to solve.  Automatix was trying to hit a few.  Some have active efforts underway already.  You'd do best to state the problem you mean to solve clearly, and ask for input on where efforts could be best contributed.
<contrast83> persia: So CC licenses and the like?
<contrast83> pwnguin: I use it. :-)
<persia> contrast83: Perhaps.  Or "This cannot be modified", or "requires payment if used in a business context", or "cannot be used in a military context", etc.
<contrast83> Purging Adept is one of thefirst things I do on every Kubuntu installation since mid-Edgy. :-\
* contrast83 would be interested in seeing the license that prohibits military use.
<contrast83> heh
<persia> contrast83: Sometimes there are also binary blobs (PDF, images, firmware, drivers, etc.) for which there's no source, and some source framework around it, or just a system to download closed binaries from an external source (although this is strongly discouraged).
<persia> contrast83: It wouldn't be DFSG-free (field of endeavour)
<contrast83> Got cha
<pwnguin> there's a few that are "no israelis"
<contrast83> lol
<pwnguin> i cant remember what off the top of my head, but it was after it was announced that isreali forces accidentally attacked a UN watchpost
<contrast83> I think I may already know the answer to this - some users' hard drives are too small to permit it - but why doesn't Ubuntu partition / and /home seperately by default? I've noticed several other distros do that and I was awe-struck by the brilliance once I understood the reasons behind it.
<awalton__> I've asked that question in my head for ages, I'd love to hear real discussion on that.
<contrast83> The aforementioned project I'm working on (Kubuntu-Aide's the working name) insists to the user before doing anything that if they haven't already done so, they repartition their hard drives like that. One of the extra things it does is set up a very primitive backup/restore system, which is dependent on the partitions being set up like that.
<persia> contrast83: One hopes you're backing up /usr by storing the output of dpkg --get-selections somewhere, rather than keeping the actual files.
<contrast83> persia: of course. :-)
<pwnguin> because local couldn't possibly exist
<persia> pwnguin: If it does, it deserves a local backup solution, no?
<contrast83> actually...
<contrast83> the way i've been going about it, is i have /home/mike/.BASHback, which contains all binary installers, output of dpkg --get-selections, the restore script itself, and so on...
<contrast83> and then /home/mike/.BASHback/root-directory/, which contains all changes manually made under / which have been confirmed to not break anything
<pwnguin> there's a set of programs called simple backup i think
* persia remembers that.  Isn't there also a user-backup?
<pwnguin> probabl
<pwnguin> is there much value on backing up stuff to the same disk it came from?
<contrast83> what i'd like to have is something that silently monitors / for changes made by anything other than dpkg (obviously excluding general logs, tmp files, etc.). whenever a change is made, upon the next successful boot/login, it asks the user if they'd like to commit their change to the fake root directory (e.g., /home/mike/.BASHback/root-directory)
<contrast83> pwnguin: if it's to a different partition, i think so.
<persia> pwnguin: In the case of accidental deletion or file corruption, yes.  In the case of filesystem corruption, maybe.  In the case of hardware issues, no.
<contrast83> ^ better answer.
<persia> contrast83: Careful about /var : that could quickly become unmanageable if e.g. mysql were installed.
<contrast83> persia: excluding */var*, general logs, tmp files, etc... :-)
<pwnguin> /mnt and /media probably as well
<asisak> ScottK: do you know what happened to the checkgmail update?
<contrast83> right, anything in that general realm. i'm just speaking generally, hence the etc. :-P
<pwnguin> at this point, you're nearly as well off just listing the things you DO want ;)
<contrast83> actually, better idea, i think...
<pwnguin> im guessing you dont want to back up /root
<persia> pwnguin: Could drop a snapshot into /home/root, if the daemon was suid.
<contrast83> i actually am at the moment, just because i had to jump through some hoops to get GTK apps to use the desired style/color scheme when run as root
<pwnguin> ruh?
<contrast83> but i'm not backing up the entire directories
<contrast83> all i'm placing in the fake root directory are files i've changed or put in / manually, obviously in the proper hierarchy
<pwnguin> please do name a few gtk apps you run as root
<contrast83> synaptic
<contrast83> that's mainly it.
<pwnguin> gksudo?
<pwnguin> gksudo doens't cut it there?
<pwnguin> or whatever kde uses
<contrast83> nope. had to manually go in and copy some gtk2-rc file or some such from /home/mike
<contrast83> but to better clarify on the original point...
<contrast83> i have a fresh install. i download an icon theme, for example, that i want to be available to all users and extract it to /usr/share/icons.....
<contrast83> then i would run mkdir -p /home/mike/.BASHback/root-directory/usr/share/icons and then cp /usr/share/icons/newicontheme /home/mike/.BASHback/usr/share/icons
<pwnguin> it seems like that sort of thing should be a real quick deb
<pwnguin> in fact, local debs are gonna be a challenge =/
<contrast83> a quick deb for each and every change, or one that covers all of them, which would be updated everytime a new change is made?
<pwnguin> i just mean, if i want to install a new theme, there _ought_ to be a way to quickly make a .deb from such a thing. donno if alien actually does it or not
<contrast83> pwnguin: that's why i said for example. ;-)
<pwnguin> but you could just as easily use a new etc file or something
<contrast83> ?
<pwnguin> joebob makes a new etf file, maybe a runlevel thing
<pwnguin> etc
<pwnguin> anyways
<contrast83> so you're saying not even worry about backing up these small changes manually made under /?
<pwnguin> no, im saying you're right in the general sense
<contrast83> ok...?
* pwnguin is allowed to change his mind
<contrast83> lol
<pwnguin> actually
<pwnguin> i think there's a dpkg list of all files managed by dpkg
<RAOF> You can certainly get it on a per-package basis, yes.
<contrast83> some of the files to be backed up may be managed by dpkg though
<pwnguin> what?
<pwnguin> surely ive seen apt complain that a file was owned by another package
<RAOF> pwnguin: Yeah, that's right.
<contrast83> i've changed dozens upon dozens of default .desktop files under /usr/share/applications
<RAOF> contrast83: You'd only need to backup anything found in the conffiles of packages.  And store diffs if you wanted to backup such manual changes like /u/s/a
<contrast83> RAOF: Right. I know there are cleaner and more proper ways to do some of this stuff, like the way you just said, but how comprehensible is something like that to the average end-user. or how practical is it to implement that method in a way that's transparent to the average end-user?
<persia> contrast83: I don't think supporting changes to package-installed files in /usr is a common use case.  For all of them, one should be able to achieve the same result with changes in /etc or $HOME (or else the package is non-ideal, and should be patched).
<RAOF> contrast83: Pretty practical.
<RAOF> contrast83: You may be interested in... um, this project on ubuntuforums, which seems to be a simple-backup app.
<pwnguin> !info simplebackup
<ubotu> simplebackup: Simple backup tool. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.9-1 (feisty), package size 8 kB, installed size 84 kB
<pwnguin> that one?
<contrast83> And as for things like /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /etc/apt/sources.list?
<RAOF> They're conf-files.  dpkg will leave them alone.  If not you get to scream very loudly at the maintainer
<persia> contrast83: dpkg keeps track of the md5sums of everything auto-installed in /etc.  If you have cycles to spare (you may not), only backing up the files that differ would save space.
<contrast83> RAOF: We're on different pages here, I think...
<contrast83> persia: That's *exactly* what I'm suggesting.
<persia> RAOF: Not every configuration file is a conffile, and not everything in /etc is a configuration file :)
<RAOF> True.
<contrast83> RAOF: What I'm suggesting is for when the user needs to format the / partition, or that partition becomes otherwise unusable.
<RAOF> Or... shouldn't anything under /etc be considered as a conffile?
<contrast83> RAOF: Then they restore the changes they've made to it from the fake root directory (which contains only those changes) that's under /home/user
<contrast83> after reinstalling*
<RAOF> contrast83: Sounds reasonable.
<persia> RAOF: No.  conffiles must be declared by the packages.  The basic difference is that a conffile will likely be edited by a user, and so dpkg should take special efforts to preserve the contents, whereas other configuration files (not conffiles) may be mangled during an upgrade (e.g. the script that gathers everything in foo.d/ to replace the now obsolete foo.conf)
<contrast83> I'm thinking the desktop search daemons could be put to use for this, if they could be taught what changes to disregard.
<persia> contrast83: That's a lot of overhead.  inotify is probably a lighter interface.
<RAOF> persia: Yes, yes.  That's right.
<RAOF> contrast83: Also, the desktop search daemons generally only touch $HOME
<contrast83> Ok, note taken... What I'm thinking though is, when a change is made in one of the monitored directories, a notification comes up asking the user if they want to commit this change to their fake root directory. They'd have the option to be asked again later if they're not sure of whether they just broke something.
<contrast83> Ahh... Point taken. You can tell I've never really used desktop search. :-)
<persia> contrast83: Right.  Your daemon is an inotify client, and manages the user interaction through a dbus? call to your session app, which puts a new icon in the notification-area?
<contrast83> persia: Sounds right.
<persia> The notification-area? icon launches your GUI app, passing the message, and allows user configuration, which gets passed back to your daemon.
<contrast83> Remember, I'm still a borderline noob, so this is all purely brainstorming at this point. Not sure how im/practical any of it might be.
* persia recommends simple-backup, user-backup, hubackup, etc.
<contrast83> ok... i just installed simple-backup. gonna tinker with it a bit.
<RAOF> contrast83: You may also be interested in revision
<RAOF> -control systems, form what it looks like.
<contrast83> like SVN, GIT, etc?
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> Well, more git or bzr, because they don't require a central server.
<contrast83> Got cha
<RAOF> In fact, you could probably do something tricky with mounting /etc on a gitfs or something.
<contrast83> I'm not that bold yet. :-P
<contrast83> BRB, gotta get outta this Openbox/xcompmgr session. :-P
* RAOF tries to decipher what the hell is going on with that debdiff
<persia> RAOF: lsdiff is your friend.  Also, take a look at the resulting diff.gz.  diffstat against the original diff.gz and 90-silly-magic.patch might help too.
<geser> dholbach: bug #151078 is not a sync, rails 1.2.4 has a new dependency which isn't in gutsy
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151078 in rails "Please sync rails 1.2.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151078
<geser> I will upload rails 1.2.4 without that dependency right now
<dholbach> geser: ok, gotcha
<dholbach> thanks geser
<persia> geser: macd was playing with a similar debdiff earlier, if you haven't already done it.
<contrast83> !packaging-guide
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about packaging-guide - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<dholbach> !packagingguide ?
<contrast83> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<contrast83> thanks
<dholbach> de rien :)
<contrast83> Do you know offhand if one of those is the same as the one in the package "packaging-guide"?
<dholbach> lucas: is it OK to drop  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/MorgueForMOTU  or move somewhere else?
<dholbach> contrast83: yes it is
<geser> persia: I had a package ready yesterday but went to bed before the UVFe got approved
<persia> geser: Perfect then :)
<geser> I just uploaded it
<contrast83> dholbach: I started to read that one and stopped when it said a good understanding of the makefile is a prerequisite. Was I wrong to do so, and if not, do you know of a good resource for the information on make that I need?
<persia> contrast83: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html
<contrast83> thanks
<contrast83> So read *all* of that, or just skim it as I go through the packaging documentation?
<persia> contrast83: Sections 1-3 are the most important, and 4-6 very useful.  7+ get into more advanced topics, which can be helpful, but aren't as essential.
<contrast83> Ok, much appreciated.
<dholbach> great to have you here contrast83 :)
<contrast83> thanks, good to be here
<contrast83> dholbach: i think you're one of the ones RAOF suggested I speak with about getting "recruited." not sure what he meant by that.
<dholbach> hehe :-)
<persia> contrast83: You're in #ubuntu-motu, reading docs, and planning things: you've already been recruited :)
<dholbach> if you need any help or have problems with anything, let me know, I'm happy to help out and try to fix things to make it easier to join the team :)
<contrast83> cool, thanks a lot. :-)
<bluekuja> heya all
<bluekuja> dholbach: is possible to be added inside mentors list?
<asisak> Hey bluekuja
<asisak> And everyone around :)
<bluekuja> heya asisak!
<bluekuja> :)
<dholbach> bluekuja: sure
<bluekuja> dholbach: thanks mate :)
<jussi01> OK, I officially hate flash... is there not some other way we can distribute it?
<awalton__> 'fraid not. :-/
<awalton__> adobe_hate++
<jussi01> why the **** does it take me ~5-10 HOURS to download it every time...
<awalton__> hah, why indeed, do they not have mirrors?
<soren> jussi01: Because your internet connection is rusty barb wire?
<jussi01> soren: I have 10/10
<soren> bps?
<awalton__> *rimshot*
<jussi01> grrr
<soren> Hard to say.. Look at the url in the script and see if it's faster to fetch it in firefox or something.
<jussi01> soren: true... I would rather use the package though....although it was a similar story in firefox.. I guess its something to do with the TA connection
<soren> jussi01: If you've got a more suitable URL, we can just change it?
<soren> jussi01: I wasn't suggesting you should use firefox instead of the script. I just suggested you try it in firefox to see it was the script that was acting strangely or if it's like to be the remote end or the connection between you and them.
<jussi01> ahh... its not the scripts fault by the look of it...
<soren> Clearly.
<lucas>  dholbach feel free to remove it
<dholbach> lucas: ok, thank you
<Q-FUNK> Howdy! I'm having troubles packaging a Python module that doesn't use distutils. Can anyone help?
<POX__> Q-FUNK: write your own setup.py file or install files by hand (dh_install) to /usr/share/python-support/$package or /usr/share/pycentral/$package/site-packages
<RAOF> jussi01: You could always try gnash :P
<Q-FUNK> POX__: they are already installed by hand to  /usr/share/python-support/$package but then it leaves me with a Lintian warning about having one script installed as non-executable
* jussi01 pokes RAOF ....
<jussi01> grrr
<POX__> Q-FUNK: remove ahshbang or chmod +x it
<POX__> hashbang, sorry
<Q-FUNK> POX__: files in /usr/share are correctly suposed to not be executable.
<RAOF> jussi01: Eh, gnash works for me ;)
<POX__> Q-FUNK: just remove hashbang
<POX__> you can do it in debian/rules (hint: sed) or simply patch the sources
<jussi01> RAOF: for everything?
<RAOF> jussi01: Pretty much.  Youtube works, but I really don't use that much flash
<jussi01> RAOF: I may give it a try. I use a fair bit of flash though... :(
<jussi01> !gnash
<ubotu> An open source flash replacement.  It is still beta software. For current status or for more info http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/
<jussi01> hmmm, where did that nice tutorial that used to be in the factoid go?
<RAOF> For gnash?
<gnomefreak> there wasnt a tut in gnash factoid
<gnomefreak> there was one in !restricted but i dont know if its still there
<ScottK> asisak: I do not.
<ScottK> Morning all.
<ScottK> asisak: Any chance you could just pull the .desktop from their source and do the change (we're kind of out of time to wait)?
<contrast83> I seem to remember seeing a page listing all the packages on their way into universe, but I'm having some trouble finding it. Any ideas?
<albert23> I was asked to do a patch using cdbs. debian/patches didn't exist yet, so clearly this is the first patch. Is it ok to start numbering at 01 or should I leave some number space for possible debian patches?
<RAOF> persia: I'd prefer to redo the 90_autotools patch entirely.  It'll be easy to make it ~1K.
<persia> albert23: You can use any numbering scheme you like (including the absence of a numbering scheme).  Personally, I like to start with 01, just to indicate that this applies before other patches.
<RAOF> persia: Any thoughts here?
<persia> RAOF: That seems sensible.  If I understand the original intention properly, the point was to revert the diff.gz patch, and make minimal changes to ensure it compiled with 1.9
<albert23> persia: thanks, I will use 01 then
<RAOF> persia: Actually, I think the intention was to make the changes to .ac & .am files to actually apply.  I'll see after I do some editing :)
<persia> RAOF: heh
<contrast83> w00t w00t
<contrast83> just made my first makefile. can't believe how much i overestimated the difficulty of that. :-P
<Whoopie> bluekuja: hi, what about uswsusp? Now, it's really too late :(
<persia> contrast83: The only tricky bit is thinking in terms of rules & dependencies, rather than procedural progress.  Glad to hear you find it easy.
<contrast83> well, i did start with a *very* easy target (an icon set). given how much i've dealt with broken dependencies though, that "tricky bit" you mentioned comes natural. :-)
<contrast83> in theory, at least. :-\
<ScottK> doko: Did you see my overnight ping to please consider adding libsigc++-2.0 to your ia32-libs upload so Skype will work on AMD64.
<persia> contrast83: One thing to watch out for is that make assumes every rule will generate a file matching the rule name, so if there is already a file there, it won't run (unless it depends on a rule for which the corresponding file has a newer timestamp).
<doko> ScottK: yes
<contrast83> got cha. thanks for the tip.
<ScottK> doko: Thanks.
<bluekuja> Whoopie: heya, did your debdiff get uploaded?
<Whoopie> bluekuja: nope
<bluekuja> Whoopie: you told me you had to talk with mjg59 about it
<bluekuja> Whoopie: what's his response on it?
<Whoopie> bluekuja: I asked him twice if he had time to look at it. But he hadn't, so no progress.
<bluekuja> Whoopie: you should try to ping him again, and anyway it's not too late yet
<Whoopie> bluekuja: could you? ;) I fear, he'll hate me if I ping him too often.
<bluekuja> Whoopie: ok, when I catch him online,
<bluekuja> gonna ping him on -devel
<bluekuja> would be nice to have you there too...
<bluekuja> for any explanation debdiff-related
<RAOF> Can there be anything more fun than manually editing Makefile.ins?
<persia> RAOF: Makefile.am ?
<RAOF> persia: Only if you want ~3mb worth of autoretooling
<persia> RAOF: Not really: just thinking of things more fun than manually editing Makefile.in  Good luck with the timestamps :)
<RAOF> The active ingredient of the Makefile.am patches is a 2 line change to Makefile.in.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.
<RAOF> Sadly, this comes burdened with autofoo changing every single other line, just because it can.
<RAOF> Oh, yes.  The joy of timestamps.
<RAOF> I've beaten them back before, I'll do it again!
<RAOF> Excessive use of bold may be a side-effect of autofoo.
<Whoopie> bluekuja: I'm there. we also should discuss about bug 134238. there're some "angry" people who want s2ram back.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134238 in uswsusp "Please re-enable build of s2ram binary" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134238
<bluekuja> Whoopie: who disabled it?
<Whoopie> bluekuja: mjg59
<bluekuja> oh^^
<bluekuja> Whoopie: link me to your debdiff
<Whoopie> bluekuja: it's in bug 109151
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109151 in uswsusp "no hibernate with uswsusp installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109151
<ScottK> bluekuja: Dunno if you are contemplating it or not, but I'd not revert his s2ram change without understanding why he thinks it makes no sense.
<bluekuja> ScottK: I wont revert any change he made
<bluekuja> ScottK: I even dont use this package
<persia> Whoopie: Did you ever have a chance to test?  The bug log doesn't make clear the results of any testing.
<ScottK> bluekuja: Good plan.
<bluekuja> ScottK: I did a merge of it on June
<bluekuja> ScottK: that's all I've done for it
<Whoopie> ScottK: you're absolutely right. if I understood correctly, he thinks there's no need for s2ram as it's not intregrated in acpi-support.
<ScottK> OK.
<Whoopie> I understand his point, but I also understand the complaints.
<ScottK> Whoopie: I'd suggest mark the bug invalid and explain why then.
<bluekuja> ScottK: you should talk with Whoopie about it ;)
<RAOF> Heh.  There's a bug filed that overwriting your harddrive with random data for lvm/crypt is slow.  Cool.
<Whoopie> I tried to, but the arguments are that it should be available even if it's not used by default.
* persia is confused.  is having an extra binary bad?  If it is to be removed, should not the associated miscellaneous packaging bits also be removed?
<ScottK> Whoopie: Then Won't Fix.  Yes, it kind of makes sense, but we aren't going to do it.
<ScottK> persia: Ask mjg59 why (but probably not the day before the RC is scheduled).
<Whoopie> persia: I tested it half successfully. but it seems to me that it's an issue with my laptop, not the debdiff itself.
<persia> ScottK: Something should be done.  From the bug log, it appears s2ram is mentioned in README.Debian (and no, I'm not chasing this before release, just having opinions as a means to procrastinate tracking down hydrogen crashes)
<ScottK> Sure.  Makes sense.
<persia> Whoopie: OK.  One of the basic requirements to get a debdiff committed is to have a successful test.  With the current state of the bug log, it's very unlikely anyone will upload your candidate.
<Whoopie> ScottK: I'm no MOTU, so if you guys decide "Won't fix", then could you close the ticket?
* persia doesn't think "Won't fix" is right yet.  For 134238, the leftovers should be purged, or the binary restored.  For 109151, someone should test the candidate.
<RAOF> Right.  Debdiff is now 44K rather than 3.3 Mb.  That makes it much easier to see what's happening :)
<persia> Whoopie: BTW, nice work in making a patch for both 109151 and 114688
<Whoopie> persia: good plan, I asked on #ubuntu+1 if someone wants to test, but no answers.
<persia> RAOF: debdiff against what?
<ScottK> Whoopie: Forgot not everyone could do that.
<RAOF> persia: The current package version (ubuntu2)
<Whoopie> ScottK: why?
<persia> Whoopie: You could try #ubuntu.  I've had success in the past trading advice for testing.
<Whoopie> ScottK: because I just provided a debdiff.
<ScottK> Won't Fix is restricted.
<Whoopie> ?
<Whoopie> ah
<persia> RAOF: Did you decide not to modify autotools?  What about backing out the Debian autotools patch to make it build with 1.9 instead of 1.7?
<ScottK> Whoopie: I was suggesting you do it because you (unlike me) appear to have some understanding of the issue.
<Whoopie> ScottK: ok, sorry, misunderstanding.
<ScottK> No problem.
<RAOF> persia: I decided to do the minimal changes, although this includes some autotools modifications.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.  I actually liked the reversion of the autotools hack: I don't think 1.7 is a good target :)  On the other hand, it makes it hard to concentrate on the actual bugfixes ;)
<RAOF> persia: However, I didn't touch the existing debian direct-to-the-source patches.
<persia> RAOF: Do you still have a 90-autofoo patch then?
<RAOF> persia: Yes, it's just much, much smaller.
<RAOF> And only touches the files it needs to.
<RAOF> Of course, it's still building, so "it needs to" may need to be expanded in the future (but I, obviously, don't think so).
<RAOF> You know what would be awesome?  If autotools didn't rebuild every single file it touched from the ground up with every change ;)
<persia> RAOF: Personally, I think a package that patches the autotools one way from diff.gz, and then another way from dpatch is just broken (and will be very painful to maintain).  When you've got the rest sorted, would you mind either dismantling the diff.gz patch, or adding your 90-autofoo patch to diff.gz raw?
<persia> RAOF: It doesn't.  Only those that would be affected by the change (based on timestamps).  The fact that so much is touched in the diff.gz unpack (for the 1.9 -> 1.7 backport) horribly confuses the tools.
<RAOF> persia: No, I mean that when it touches a file it re-writes it totally, even if the active ingredient is a 2 line patch.
<persia> RAOF: That's a safety feature.  Imagine downloading binary debdiffs and applying them to a running system instead of the current dpkg behaviour.
<asisak> ScottK: okay. I'll do that after lunch
<ScottK> asisak: Thanks.
<RAOF> persia: Again, I think we're talking past each other - I don't mean it shouldn't rewrite the file from scratch rather than trying to modify the existing file, but it should re-write it in roughly the same way so that the 2 line diff that counts isn't swamped by thousands of lines of cosmetic changes.
<persia> RAOF: It's supposed to produce roughly the same output, as long as the input is the same.  I suspect you see the result of improved config.sub and config.guess :)
<persia> OK.  This is frustrating.  Jack appears to require realtime scheduling with the default configuration, but the default kernel doesn't provide realtime scheduling.
<persia> Any audio people around?
<zul_> persia: there is the -rt kernel
<persia> zul_: Yes, but that doesn't solve the common case.  It's not hard to run jack -R, but I don't think it should be default.  Anyway, I don't seem to be able to launch jack at all right now, which is even more annoying.
<RAOF> Yay!  sbuild appears to have decided to mail me buildlogs again!
<sivang> hi all
<sivang> is universe frozen as well ?
<sivang> ah, the subject says it all :)
<persia> Found it.  Apparently it takes special magic to get jack & speech-dispatcher to play nice together.
<RAOF> I wonder if anyone has complained that we don't seem to be building the gstreamer libvisual input plugin
<RAOF> Ok; it wasn't built before & no-one's complained.  I don't think I'll try to get it built, then.
<RAOF> Now, to wrestle with timestamps!
<persia> Would someone mind confirming that "riuso il path del nuovo sample (perche' e' gia relativo al path del drumkit" means something akin to "reset the path for the new sample (in a manner relative to the path of the drumkit)"?
<ScottK> asac: I see there is a new nspluginwrapper in Debian Unstable.  Would it be worth a merge to get the latest version in before release?
<ScottK> Good evening Hobbsee.
<pkern> asac: Could you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-openvpn/+bug/96260/ please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 96260 in network-manager-openvpn "n-m-openvpn: resolv.conf is erased if endpoint does not push DNS servers" [Low,Triaged] 
<Hobbsee> hiya ScottK
<RAOF> Evening Hobbsee
<pkern> persia: Because it'a already relative
<Hobbsee> hi RAOF
<RAOF> Got you a new kubuntu recruit :)
<Hobbsee> woot!
<Hobbsee> fresh blood!
<persia> pkern: Thanks.  That makes that stanza much more likely to contain the bug.
<RAOF> Bah! It's too late to be hunting down timestamping problems :(
<persia> RAOF: Just manually swap the order of things in the diff :)
<RAOF> Hm, would that work?
<asac> ScottK: i don't think we need an nspluginwrapper update for gutsy. what is new?
<persia> RAOF: If I remember correctly, the diff.gz unpack touches just about eveerything.  The patches get applied sequentially, so the things touched last will have the latest timestamps.  That's one of the reasons mixing diff.gz and debian/patches is likely to cause heartbreak.
<ScottK> asac: I've been told (but haven't actually checked) that it works better with a new flash beta (I think it was).
<RAOF> persia: I've checked the previous build logs, and they managed to have timestamp problems even without the debian/patches stuff ;)
<RAOF> But you're right.
<ScottK> asac: Dunno if you noticed on devel-discuss, but the Automatix devs have kind of reached out to cooperate.  Currently their Gutsy version will provide it, so I'd rather have there be one less 'reason' for people to install Automatix.
<ScottK> That's enough for me right there.
<pkern> Yeah let's track Automatix.
<RAOF> diff.gz touches everything, then patches touch stuff.
<persia> Or rather, one less thing were delegate to automatix
<persia> s/were/we/
<ScottK> pkern: I'd rather give them fewer rather than more reasons to exist.  That's how I think of it.  It's a merge from Sid, so it's not entirely random crack.
<asac> ScottK: hmm. its really late in the cycle and we don't have any testing for it
<persia> RAOF: Right.  I suggest stripping all the autofoo stuff from diff.gz, and putting anything you really, really need in debian/patches (as long as you're porting to dpatch).
<proppy> hi
<RAOF> persia: Fair crack o' the whip :)
<ScottK> asac: Would it take more than basic local testing I could do before uploading?
<ScottK> asac: If you say no, I won't do it, but as I say, one less reason for them to exist.
<persia> RAOF: It should reinflate the debdiff to ~3.5MB, but reduce diff.gz to almost nothing, and make the package sane for the next person.
<asac> ScottK: at least I would want to get ppa testing with forum feedback i would say
<ScottK> asac: I don't have a PPA to upload it to.  If I give you a merge debdiff, could you handle that?
<asac> ScottK: yes give it
<ScottK> asac: OK.  I'll work on it and ping you when I have it.
<ScottK> My Gutsy laptop just overheated and died thanks to kernel regression, so it wont' be immediate.
<asac> thanks
<RAOF> persia: So you reackon we should keep the autofoo 1.7 -> 1.9 targeting from the diff.gz+
<persia> RAOF: Hrm?  Now I'm confused.  I thought the diff.gz went from 1.9 -> 1.7 (although I haven't actually looked at the patch in a few months).
<RAOF> persia: No.  diff.gz went 1.7 -> 1.9.
<persia> RAOF: Um..  That's actually useful.  Now I don't know what to say.  The quick & dirty way would be to just apply the 5 little fixes in diff.gz, but the author of the bugfixes seemed pretty set against that, so I'm not sure we have permission.
<RAOF> persia: I think that was actually his first go - the initial debdiff just played with files in the diff.gz
<persia> RAOF: What was the bugnumber again?
<RAOF> bug 123934
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123934 in libvisual-plugins "[debdiff]  bunch of fixes for libvisual-plugins" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123934
<norsetto> howdy folks
<Hobbsee> hiya norsetto
<RAOF> Good evening, norsetto
* norsetto bows to Hobbsee
<norsetto> Hi RAOF
<persia> RAOF: Hrm.  It looks like you and I failed to communicate whilst getting someone else to do the dirty work 3 months ago.  What seems easiest to you at this point?
<asisak> Hey Hobbsee, norsetto et al.
<norsetto> asisak: hello young hooligan .....
<ScottK> Good afternoon norsetto.
<asisak> Hiya ancient friend, norsetto
<norsetto> scottK: hello old hooligan :-)
<ScottK> Hey. You are the one person here who doesn't get to call me that ;-)
<RAOF> persia: Out of the options (1) rolling the autofoo changes in the diff.gz into 90_autofoomax.patch or (2) Applying everything to the diff.gz, I like (1) better, but I'm a sucker for patch systems and tired.
<norsetto> scottK: he, the date is approaching though, wehen we will be equal!
<asisak> Hmm... only 1G mem is shown :(
* asisak has to reboot
<persia> RAOF: Go for it.  I like staying close to debian, but this close to RC, it's better just to get the bugs closed, and clean up in a few weeks.
<ScottK> norsetto: Only in the years, not in the months...
<norsetto> scottk: thats what it counts ....
<ScottK> persia: +1 close to Debian is good.  Working is even better.
* persia only agrees "working is even better" when release is <1 month away
<Hobbsee> RAOF: does that mean that it still applies each release?
<Hobbsee> where autohell may change?
<persia> Hobbsee: It targets a specific autohell, rather than selecting the most tortuous at build-time.
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Hobbsee> cprov!
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Hopefully the next upstream release won't require us to fix their buildsystem for them, and the whole patch can DIAF
<Hobbsee> RAOF: hehe :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: that's the first time i've heard DIAF in a non-customer service context.  sad, isnt it?
<ScottK> First time I've heard it period.
<cprov> Hobbsee: hi there.
<ScottK> Ah.  Acroynmfinder.com to the rescue
<Hobbsee> ScottK: DIAF and FOAD are similar, adn both very useful.
<persia> In C++, if "setFilename" is used on a class where m_sFilename is defined, and there's no template in the .cpp or .h files, should it work automagically?
<ScottK> FOAD I'm definitely familiar with.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: hint:  never say them to your customers.
<ScottK> I can see DIAF beeing useful too.
<ScottK> RAOF: Would you be up for testing a new nspluginwrapper merge?
* persia assumes that C++ fails to be magical, and instead the program is broken.
<RAOF> persia is correct
<imbrandon> moins all
<Hobbsee> ScottK: there's a thing on REVU for that, btw
<Hobbsee> i should upload it
<RAOF> ScottK: Not this evening, I really want to hit the bed.
<RAOF> With sticks.
<RAOF> And fire, it'll be awesome.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: For what?
<persia> RAOF: That C++ isn't magical?  Cool: that makes this an easy bug :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: nspluginwrapper
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Not usually for a merge from Debian.
<pkern> ScottK: What does testing involve?
<pkern> persia: Of course C++ isn't that magical.
<ScottK> pkern: It needs AMD64.  Build it test it and see if it works.
<pkern> persia: But that should raise a compiler failure.
<pkern> ScottK: I'm on amd64.
<ScottK> perfect.
<pkern> But I guess I would need a link.
<ScottK> I'll have a debdiff for you in just a moment.  In the meantime you may as well get Debian's from Sid.
<persia> pkern: I've been primarily programming in Ruby the past few months, so missing methods don't scream "BUG!" at me as much as they did in the past, and despite most of my Ubuntu patches being C++, I don't consider myself to know the language.
<pkern> persia: Duck typing friend? :-P
<RAOF> Duck typing *rocks*, although it does mean that language designers are less likely to have a turing complete type system.
<ScottK> geser: Did you get the rails update done (speaking of Ruby)?
<pkern> persia: Consider this for this particular problem: setLanguage should work magically? Then set_language would have to work magically too. And that would be nonsense. ;)
<pkern> RAOF: Problem is that it's harder to find problems as you need to actually invoke all lines of code.
<pkern> Now duck typing is also possible with C++ and you get type safety.
<persia> pkern: In Ruby, it works, despite being nonsense (as long as you have a sufficiently overloaded missing_method)
<RAOF> pkern: Kinda.
<RAOF> pkern: But yes, you do want unittests, and having apport give a nice backtrace on all the bugs is nice.
<pkern> persia: I know.
<persia> I could ask for more with backtraces.  "0x00002baa04c47b91 in std::string::assign () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6" isn't really a good pointer to a missing method.
<pkern> A missing method would imply an ABI break?
<persia> pkern: It's an internal API for the app.  Specifically, Hydrogen crashes when loading different drumkits under certain circumstances.
<ScottK> pkern: see bug #151288
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151288 in nspluginwrapper "Please merge nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5 from Debian Unstable (Contrib)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151288
<RAOF> Ok.  I'm too tired to upload, but that seems to have worked.
<ScottK> asac: nspluginwrapper debdiff is in the above bug ^^^
<RAOF> I'll see if I still think so in the morning :)
<RAOF> Good night all!
<norsetto> night RAOF
<ScottK> Good night RAOF
<persia> RAOF: Nice work.  Thanks.
<pkern> ScottK: Got it.
<ScottK> pkern: Great.
<ScottK> Evey time we can say "Neener - Ubuntu does that already" to Automatix, a dead kitten comes back to life.
<ScottK> Evey/Every
<persia> ScottK: No gloating.  Everyone helps the user experience :)
<ScottK> persia: Automatix helps users gain experience with from scratch reinstalls in many cases.
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  See.  Experience.
<ScottK> persia: I was agreeing with you.
<asac> ScottK: did debian apply 002_install_to_NSPLUGINDIR.patch ?
<asac> its not in remaining changes
<ScottK> Just providing added detail.
<Hobbsee> !uvfe
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uvfe - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> !uvf
<ubotu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6
<Hobbsee> we dont want a new wxpython, do we?
<ScottK> asac: They have 002_install_to_NSPLUGINDIR.diff
<Hobbsee> or wxwidgets?
<ScottK> Just renamed it.
<pkern> ScottK: Works for me.
<pkern> ScottK: Regenerated the plugin in /var/lib/flashplugin-nonfree by hand, though.
<asac> ScottK: ok ... can you test to remove everything, ensure that there is no flashplugin deployed in ffox and then install flashplugin-nonfree and see that it works?
<ScottK> asac: ^^^ is the nspluginwrapper debdiff
<ScottK> pkern: ^^^
<pkern> On it.
<persia> New wxwidgets?  2.10?
<asac> ScottK: so for pkern it was not automatically regenerated
<ScottK> OK.  I'll have another look then.
<pkern> Simply installing flashplayer-nonfree worked.
<pkern> Let me retry the regeneration.
<asac> pkern: did you remove everything before and checked that ffox didn't know anything about flash anymore?
<pkern> asac: Yep.
<Hobbsee> persia: https://launchpad.net/bugs/151286
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151286 in wxwidgets2.5 "Request: wxPython 2.8.4 for Gutsy Gibon" [Undecided,New] 
<ScottK> asac: Debian's patch and yours are identical.
<asac> ScottK: yes good
<persia> Hobbsee: We already have 2.8.4.  Interesting bug.
<Hobbsee> even better.
<pkern> The /var/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/npwrapper.libflashplayer.so is not regenerated.
<pkern> http://rafb.net/p/ZUudO222.html
<persia> I don't really understand how Frank got wxpython2.5.3 installed.  I thought we only have wxwindows2.4, wxwidgets2.6 and wxwidgets2.8.
<Hobbsee> crack, most likely
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> persia: done by automatix, perhaps
<persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps.  Still, I like closing wx bugs.  If only I had managed to get the last few wxwindows packages ported...
<Hobbsee> hehe :D
<asisak> Heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi asisak
<ScottK> pkern: Any idea why?
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: are there any new kubuntu devs I could support?
<pkern> ScottK: There is no postinst?
<ScottK> Hmm
<pkern> I don't *think* it's a *regression*.
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: havent been keeping track, but quite likely.  RAOF found one
<ScottK> jpatrick: Riddell was looking for help for Bug #146216 the other day.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 146216 in knetworkconf "kde network administration doesn't disable interfaces in /etc/network/interfaces" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/146216
<jpatrick> hi Tonio_ !
<pkern> ScottK: There aren't any postinst scripts in the current version neither.
<jpatrick> ScottK: I was thinking more motu sponsership
<ScottK> pkern: Am currently running overloaded.  Any chance you could look into it.
<ScottK> jpatrick: The ubuntu-universe-sponsor's queue was pretty empty last Iooked.
<Hobbsee> gasp.  that's a first.
<bddebian> 9 bugs last night
<bddebian> The libvisualstudio plugins or whatever it's called has been there for a while
<bddebian> I am scared to touch that one :-)
<persia> bddebian: That goes away in the morning: RAOF is sleeping on a solution.
<bddebian> Heh, OK
<persia> Currently, there appear to be 7 candidates really awaiting upload for gutsy.
<jpatrick> can we still upload to universe?
<ScottK> Yes
<persia> jpatrick: Yes, but be sane about it, and we're under UVF and FF
<pkern> Bah, flashplayer-nonfree does not even recommend nspluginwrapper.
<jpatrick> oh, great, I have a bugfix package done and was waiting for heron
<persia> jpatrick: No point: upload today!
* persia notes that uploads compiled and distributed in the next 30 hours or so will benefit from RC testing.
<pkern> Hm sorry it does.
<pkern> ScottK: Quick fix: Bump flashplugin-nonfree and depend on the new nspluginwrapper?
<pkern> That would regenerate the wrapper.
<ScottK> pkern: No idea.  asac ^^^
<pkern> asac: And could you please take a look at that n-m patch?
<asac> ScottK: hard to say ... nspluginwrapper would need some kind of registry to properly recreate wrappers on upgrade
<asac> pkern: i can take a look. how critical is the bug anyways?
<asac> i mean, why doesn't vpn provide nameservers?
<ScottK> asac: So it sounds like this is at least not a regression.
<persia> Does anyone have any recommendations as to getting a better stacktrace for bug #149557?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149557 in hydrogen "hydrogen crashed while playing" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149557
<asac> ScottK: ok ... i upload to PPA
<asac> aeh ... once i return from iso testing to my main desktop
<pkern> asac: Well it's a server setting and the openvpn documentation says "pushing DHCP settings is mainly for Windows".
<asac> pkern: so what is the way for linux?
<pkern> asac: It's weird to erase all nameserver settings if the new connection does not provide one. It's critical for those who don't control the VPN server.
<asac> we need DNS as well
<pkern> asac: I had to change my VPN endpoint too.
<pkern> asac: I don't feel that an empty resolv.conf is helpful at all.
<asac> pkern: i don't see how keeping the old resolv.conf is a cleaner way ... most of the times it should be equally wrong
<pkern> Thus it should drop changes to resolv.conf if no new nameservers are set.
<pkern> asac: Not if you use the possibility of using partial routing.
<asac> does that work with network-manager?
<pkern> asac: I could set "only route 0.0.0.0/24 through this VPN" in n-m-openvpn.
<pkern> Which then erased my nameserver settings because they weren't pushed.
<pkern> I don't know why the hell admins refuse to change that.
<asac> what happens if you enter a valid subnet there?
<pkern> Now we could just say to beg their admins to do it. But leaving them with an empty resolv.conf is IMHO worse than leaving them with nameservers not reachable.
<pkern> n-m-vpnc supports that setting too.
<pkern> Well I have a valid subnet entered there and it works.
<asac> pkern: how does nm vpnc handle nameservers if all works right?
<asac> e.g. for the subnet use-case
<pkern> 1) My Cisco endpoint (at university) pushes DNS settings and 2) it would not be sensible to connect to the university VPN without setting those servers because of split DNS.
<pkern> So even if I set subnets I need those DNS servers.
<ScottK> Any idea why *-security uploads got copied to *-updates yesterday?
<lamont> ScottK: I bet they were just lucky.
<lamont> UIW =m dybbi
<persia> ScottK: Did it happen for everything?  I thought it was only special cases.
<ScottK> persia: Dunno.  All the packages I've looked at so far.
<ScottK> leonel: I thought you were going to file a feisty-backports request for clamav 0.91.2?
<persia> ScottK: Given your interest in security patches, that probably means everything.  It's probably a good thing: the security updates will get mirrored for people who've been lazy about installing them.
<ScottK> persia: SUre, but semi-random mass copying of releases from one pocket to another is concerning.
<albert23> Whoopie: Looks like uswsusp killed my swap device
<albert23> Whoopie: I had swap recognized before I installed uswsusp, now it is not recognized anymore
<persia> ScottK: It at least would benefit from advertisement.
<ScottK> keescook: Was yesterday's copying of lots of stuff from *-security to *-updates intentional?
<ScottK> persia: At this point I'm just hoping it was on purpose.
<persia> ScottK: hadn't thought of that.  Hmmm...
<leonel> ScottK: done    bug  151308    sorry it's been  a LOOOOONG  month
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151308 in feisty-backports "please backport Clamav from Gutsy to Feisty " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151308
<ScottK> leonel: No problem.  You tested it, right?
<leonel> wow  hold on ..
<leonel> wait ...
<asac> ScottK: that patch is a bit cumbersome for me to apply ... we have a bzr tree.
<ScottK> asac: Please let me know if there's anything else I can do for nspluginwrapper.
<ScottK> Heh.  Such timing.
<leonel> when I file the   backport   means  the backport  works  fine  because I've tested ?
<asac> ;)
<asac> yeah
<asac> i can premerge the new upstream sources
<ScottK> asac: I don't do bzr, so I'm not sure how much help I'll be on that.
<leonel> ScottK:  if so  let me do the work  today ..
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks.
<asac> if you could then provide the diff for the debian dir it would be helpful
<ScottK> OK.  I can do that.
<ScottK> asac: Debian dir diff from current Gutsy to propsed new version or current Unstable to proposed new version?
<ScottK> blueyed: Did you see my comment on your apt-listchanges patch?
<blueyed> ScottK: not yet I think. I'll take a look.
<ScottK> K
<asac> ScottK: debian dir diff against what is now in bzr (well, in a minute) :)
<ScottK> asac: I don't have what's in bzr, just in the actual repositories.
<asac> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/nspluginwrapper/ubuntu
* ScottK notes that this experience is exactly what his previous kvetching about using VCS in universe predicted.
* ScottK looks
* persia points at `bzr export`
<blueyed> ScottK: the point is that dholbach has already uploaded a (not fully working) patch, which deletes the db.
<ScottK> blueyed: OK.  Missed that.
<blueyed> So if you do not want this, this should get reverted, too. However, I've asked the apt-listchanges maintainer from Debian (Pierre) and he thinks the patch in queue is ok for Ubuntu.
<dholbach> blueyed: which package, which patch?
<dholbach> ah, apt-listchanges
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  Packages should be source, or by VCS.  Mixing is bad.
<blueyed> bug 139143
<geser> ScottK: yes, rails 1.2.4 is in the archive
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139143 in apt-listchanges "apt-listchanges crashes after python upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139143
<persia> s/by/be/
<ScottK> geser: Cool.  Thanks.
<bddebian> Heya geser :-)
<ScottK> dholbach: Would you please sort that out.  I've got about 1742 things going on right now.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<dholbach> ScottK: sure
<dholbach> blueyed: got the page bookmarked, but have to tend to a call right now, will get back to you
<blueyed> sure, thanks.
<ScottK> asac: Diff added to bug #151288
<asac> thanks
<asac> bug 151288
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151288 in nspluginwrapper "Please merge nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5 from Debian Unstable (Contrib)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151288
<asisak> ScottK: sorry, I have to run now. If jtbl prepares a debdiff I am glad to review&upload it. If not, I'll do this tomorrow.
<ScottK> asisak: OK.  Or I'll find someone else.  Thanks for looking into it.
<ScottK> Anyone who knows about .desktop files looking for something useful to do ...
* bddebian hides
* norsetto is not here
<bddebian> ScottK: What's up?
<persia> ScottK: What do you need?
<ScottK> Automatix has shipped a .desktop for checkgmail since Dapper.
<ScottK> We discussed here with one of their devs yesterday adding it to our package just default turned off from the menu (since it's normally auto started).
<ScottK> The .desktop can be gotten out of their proposed Gutsy source here http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=45694&d=1191877399
<persia> ScottK: Is there a bug?
<ScottK> So I'm looking for someone to add it to our package and upload it.
<ScottK> persia: Dunno if there is one.
* persia cannot access the provided URL
<ScottK> persia: Can you hit kitterman.com
<persia> In Ellicott City?
<ScottK> Yeah.
<persia> My arms aren't that long.
<bddebian> hah
<ScottK> I'll post it and give you a url if you can ge it from there.
<ScottK> Just as well.
<persia> ScottK; That background is really bad on the eyes.
<ScottK> Yes.  I agree.
<ScottK> Is on my list.
* persia hopes it's above "attract new customers"
<bddebian> haha
<ScottK> persia: http://www.kitterman.com/ubuntu/automatixgutsy.tar.bz2
<ScottK> persia: No.  It's really just a placeholder.  If you need to find me for $WORK, the web site won't be how you do it.
<ScottK> persia: Just now I think if I could work 3000 hours in the next year I could bill it, so attract new customers is actually pretty low on my list.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  I avoid a web presence specifically for that reason.  Anyway, that .desktop file isn't even close to valid.  I also can't find any license for the associated artwork.
<persia> ScottK: You need employees :)
<ScottK> persia: No.  The LAST thing I need is employees.
<bddebian> :)
<ScottK> Gah.  Licensing is not their strong suite.
<persia> ScottK: If you can get someone to get legal-to-ship attachments in a bug, I'd be happy to upload (takes about 15 minutes to process).
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I just ponged the guy on the forums.  Hopefully he'll show up.
<asac> ScottK: without recreating nswrappers firefox hangs
<asac> bad thing
<asac> after recreating it works
<asac> pkern: ^^^
<ScottK> asac: OK.  What does one do about that then?
<ScottK> Is that an upstream issue?
<keescook> ScottK: yeah, pocket copying was intentional to help bandwidth load for OOo updates
<ScottK> keescook: OK.  As long as it was on purpose.  Thanks.  They way LP has been lately, I had my doubts.
<keescook> hehe
<ScottK> They/The
<keescook> it shouldn't have been "everything", just OOo
<ScottK> Well it was definitely more.
<asac> well ... might be fixable upstream ... otherwise we need to recreate the wrappers, but that would need infrastructure work
<ScottK> keescook: As an example... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+publishinghistory
<asac> let me try again
<leonel> scottK   downloaded clamav sources from gutsy to feisty   theres a dependency  for libcurl4  ...  should I change the  debian/control file  with   dpatch-edit-patch ??
<ScottK> Urgh.
<ScottK> leonel: No, patches are only needed for outside the debian dir.
<ScottK> leonel: In the debian dir you can just edit it directly.
<keescook> ScottK: hunh.
<keescook> I'll ask.
<ScottK> keescook: Clamav too.
<ScottK> keescook: Dunno if it's all, but it's all I've looked at.
<leonel> scottK ok   then  a dpkg-source then   dpkg-buildpackage    test   and  send the diff ??
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.
<keescook> ScottK: ah, nm, everything was copied.  :)
<leonel> scottK  ok working ...
<ScottK> keescook: On purpose?
<pkern> asac: As said bumping flashplugin should solve this?
<asac> yes
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Speaking of customer service (we were earlier - i.e. DIAF) here's another take.. http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/2007/10/i-had-similar-conversation-last-night
<ScottK> asac: You OK if we upload it then as long as we do that too?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: hahaha nice
<ScottK> Hobbsee: He's reliably pretty funny, especially if you do tech support at all.
<keescook> ScottK: seems so, I wasn't expecting it, though.  :)
<ScottK> keescook: OK.  Thanks.
* Hobbsee doesnt currently end up doing much tech support
<Hobbsee> ScottK: my previous boss warned me very verbosely about the fact that the computer might blow up if i touched it the wrong way.  especially if i was to pull the back off.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Cool.  I want one of those.
<Hobbsee> (you think i'm going to be foolish enough to pull a computer apart while it's turned on?)
<Hobbsee> and plugging in a speaker cable != pulling hte back off - on any scale!
<ScottK> Umm.  Well I've done that.
* broonie too
<Hobbsee> as in, and then touch bits of it that obviously shouldnt be touched
<ScottK> Only got electrocuted once (and that one wasn't turned on).
<broonie> Helps if you know how the case is designed.
<ScottK> In my case it would have helped if the tech that built the prototype (me) had properly shrink wrapped the internal connections from the power line to the power supply.
* persia recommends live manipulations of >20" CRTs for a real boost
* ScottK has been safety observer for work on a 440v 3 phase power switchboard that was still live.  That was tense.
<Hobbsee> yet, i love how we get safety sheets to sign, for the entire staff, effectively saying "be careful when there are trucks in hte back dock, they may run over you if you get in their way"
<persia> Exciting.  On the other hand, the covers for those tend to be well separated, with no flybacks randomly glued to the case.
<Hobbsee> so maybe i should be unsurprised about the computer stuff.
<persia> Hobbsee: The idea is to make sure you don't sue them because you were stupid.
<broonie> The planes Easyjet use for the Edinburgh->Luton run have safety instructions that include gems like "don't jump into fire".
<Hobbsee> persia: they cant have enough warnings for that.
<Hobbsee> broonie: *snort*
<Hobbsee> good thing i wasnt drinking!
<persia> Hobbsee: They can try (that's what legal departments are for).
<Hobbsee> this is australia, not america.
<asac> ScottK: personally i wouldn't do it. i have not seen any real benefit to justify two new uploads during RC freeze. There isn't any critical bug open for both et al. ... but then my bar might be too high for |universe|.
<ScottK> asac: Thanks.
<asac> ScottK: if you really want to go ahead, let me know so i can upload them to ppa
<pkern> So they point would be to get better compatibility to a package not in Gutsy? (i.e. flashplugin beta)
<ScottK> Right.
<persia> Hobbsee: I've actually had more delays related to legal arrangements in Australia than in America, but perhaps it's just me.
<asac> pkern: where is that bug?
<Hobbsee> persia: ah.  all i meant by that comment was that, as australians, we dont tend to sue anyone and everyone for any reason.
<Hobbsee> whereas it seems that americans do that far mroe
<ScottK> asac: I'd appreciate it if you go ahead and upload to PPA.  If you're running 32bit FF plugins on 64bit archs, I expect your the sort that wants the latest crack.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right, but the legal departments wouldn't make as much money if they didn't protect their clients from people who didn't act like proper Australians :)
<pkern> ScottK: Do the automatix guys now offer REPOS instead of hacking the disk?
<ScottK> They say yes.
<Hobbsee> persia: haha :)
<dholbach> blueyed: added a note to the page
<asac> ScottK: ok i can uploaded nspluginwrapper to my ppa ... bzr is updated for that release as well
<asac> ScottK: should be build in an hour or so ... if you call for testing, please tell them to --reinstall flashplugin-nonfree after the install
<ScottK> OK.  And then if testing is good maybe we go for it.
<asac> ScottK: revision uploade is nspluginwrapper_0.9.91.5-1ubuntu1~ppa1_source.changes:
<ScottK> asac: Where should I call for testing?
<asac> yes ... but still some hard facts about the bugs resolved in the revision would be nice to have in the bug
<asac> ScottK: i think in forums
<asac> devlink
<asac> ScottK: maybe as heno if he has some preferred way to coordinate application testing
<asac> s/as/ask/
* ScottK looks around for jdong.  
<bddebian> Damnit, bug on colorgcc filed already :-(
<ScottK> asac: Added the upstream NEWS items for the release.
<persia> bddebian: Why is that bad?  Isn't that an indication of active and helpful users, who live only to give you feedback?
<bddebian> persia: Well it's bad because I'm clueless and to be honest I'm not sure how it was working the way he has it configured in the previous version :-(
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  One of those.  Good luck.
<asac> ScottK: ok commented in bug
<persia> ScottK: I'm suspecting a flood of issues similar to bug #151329, with the fluxbox UVFe so close to release.  Do you think we should try to chase them, or process as backports?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151329 in fbdesk "Package is outdated" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151329
<bluekuja> norsetto: heya, asked today to get added as mentor to daniel
<bluekuja> norsetto: if you have any student ready, just mail me
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<leonel> scottK the debdiff is  with  the  clamav_0.91.2-3ubuntu1.dsc  gutsy   and  clamav_0.91.2-3ubuntu2~feisty1.dsc now with the changes  or is with the    feisty original ?
<imbrandon> macd: thanks
<leonel> scottK done ..
<bddebian> A freshly filed wammu dependency problem?  I thought that just got resovled?
<macd> keescook, ping
<keescook> macd: hello
<geser> asac: do you need more information for bug #41134?
<macd> I did a sru for a bug yesterday and was told to inform you bug 151078
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 41134 in network-manager "Does not store WPA-Enterprise password in keyring" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/41134
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151078 in rails "Please sync rails 1.2.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151078
<macd> Im just looking for some clarification if it was done properly
<keescook> macd: okay, thanks, let me go read it quickly
<keescook> macd: yeah, if we can get the upstream fixes extracted and put into a debdiff, I'd be happy to get them published.
<macd> okay, do you have a minute to give me some insight on that
<macd> am I just diffing the current feisty source package v. the upstream debian source?
<keescook> macd: unfortunately not; it's a bit more involved.
<keescook> macd: since they are stable releases, we want to only change the vulnerable code
<keescook> macd: so the debdiff should only include patches for the specific changesets mentioned that fix the CVEs.
<macd> ok, is there a reference on the wiki for this?
<keescook> yeah, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
<keescook> in step 2, it links to the patching tutorial too.
<imbrandon> keescook: macd is very new to MOTU and just getting started, this is his first "fix"
<imbrandon> just FYI
<keescook> imbrandon: cool; I'm glad to have the help.  :)
<macd> great, I didnt know that was the process I just built a feisty package based on the debian upstream sources and figured that was it
<keescook> macd: that would work for -backports, but I'm less familiar with that area.
<macd> so diff the CVE related changes,  create a patch and add that to the LP bug
<keescook> macd: right.  I haven't looked at the rails package, but it may use a patch system (dpatch, cdbs, etc)
<keescook> that's where the patching tutorial in step 2 might be helpful
<macd> dpatch, yeah.  again thanks
<keescook> sure thing, let me know if you have any other questions.
<jtbl> i have found a dependency issue in the new nspluginwrapper package
<jtbl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nspluginwrapper/+bug/151288
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151288 in nspluginwrapper "Please merge nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5 from Debian Unstable (Contrib)" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<ajmitch> hello
<zul> hey ajmitch
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<norsetto> morning ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<pkern> ScottK: Will do
<pkern> Testers will need to --reinstall flashplugin-nonfree after the install too. <-- That sounds wrong.
<pkern> ScottK: That's probably the same I tested earlier? Or has s.th. been fixed?
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<ScottK> pkern: Not sure it's exactly the same.
<pkern> So if the flashplugin-nonfree needs to be reinstalled I'm not ok with that.
<ScottK> leonel: from the Gutsy one
<ScottK> pkern: I think that's just because we haven't bumped it yet.
<ScottK> asac: Looks like the nspluginwrapper update needs one dependency change https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nspluginwrapper/+bug/151288/comments/7
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151288 in nspluginwrapper "Please merge nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5 from Debian Unstable (Contrib)" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<norsetto> scottK: works for me (AMD64/Konqueror). I have util-linux installed of course
<norsetto> scottK: and it didn't remove anything
<ScottK> norsetto: Thanks.
<ScottK> slangasek: If you have a moment, would you please accept doko's ia32-libs package.  It needs to go in before my pending WINE upload.
<ScottK> StevenK: I'm curious your opinion on Bug 151289
<slangasek> ScottK: sorry, not accepting any universe stuff right now to keep the buildds clear for any last-minute main builds we need to finalize images for RC
* ajmitch can sympathise with that thread on -devel-discuss about fsck, still waiting for the laptop to start
<ScottK> slangasek: OK.  Is there a timeline for when it'll open up again?
<slangasek> ScottK: once the upcoming CD rebuild is finished, I expect
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK> pkern: You said bumping flashplugin would make the nspluginwrapper problem go away, right?
<pkern> Well bumping the nspluginwrapper dep in flashplugin.
<pkern> It somehow regenerates the wrapper then.
<ScottK> Ah.
<pkern> It's a weird fix I agree.
<ScottK> pkern: Would you be up for taking the source in asac's PPA and updating it for that the the util-linux thing?
<ScottK> pkern: If you do that and test it, I think it's tested enough for upload.
<ScottK> bigon: I asked for the debdiff just for a double check because we are so close to release.
<pkern> There is no linux32 in my util-linux? o_O
<bigon> ScottK: ok :)
<ScottK> Weird.
<ScottK> pkern: It's listed as an ADM64 binary on LP?
<pkern> Oh wait.
<pkern> Yeah sorry, I screwed up and checked on the wrong host due to the prompts looking similar.
<pkern> )':
<pkern> ~15 shells open.
<ScottK> jtbl: Any word on the licensing for the artwork?
<pkern> util-linux is essential so linux32 could be removed safely.
<ScottK> Cool.
<ScottK> asac: With the linux32 depends and flashplugin depends adjusted we're going to do ahead with nspluginwrapper, UNODIR.
<pkern> Firefox doesn't crash here, the flash just doesn't load and messages are printed to stderr with the wrong version installed.
<pkern> ScottK: So flashplugin-nonfree would need to be adjusted. The window would be small, but should we consider a conflicts against the current flashplugin version?
<ScottK> pkern: Or just upload a rebuild revision after this goes in...
<pkern> ScottK: I don't get that one. A binnmu would not be sufficient as the depends field should be adjusted.
<ScottK> pkern: OK.  I wasn't thinking binnmu (we don't do those) but a updated source package with a higher number to depend on.  Would it actually have to conflict?
<soren> bigon: Why does the upstream changelog not even come close to suggest to fix the issues you outline in the bug description?
<soren> bigon: bug 151289
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151289 in esvn "Please merge eSVN 0.6.12 from debian lenny/sid to Gutsy - fixes svn incompatibility." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151289
<bigon> soren: I think it's the [*]  Implement parser for .svn/enties with format > 6 (Damien Caliste). entry
<soren> bigon: Ah, yes, could be.
<pkern> ScottK: There are those XbuildY versions.
<pkern> ScottK: Well if you upgrade flashplugin first and then upgrade nspluginwrapper it's broken.
<pkern> ScottK: Uh ignore me.
<ScottK> OK
* pkern sticks to the plan.
<pkern> Ah point was that if nspluginwrapper is upgraded flash will be broken until flash gets reinstalled.
<pkern> Circular deps are bad.
<bddebian> !#$^#$^
<norsetto> bddebian: couldn't agree with you more
<pkern> bddebian: What's up?
<bddebian> Just whining
<pkern> bddebian: Haha. /me evil.
<bddebian> pkern: Why?
<pkern> bddebian: Just because I can. Just like you can just be whining. :-P
<bddebian> Fair enough :-)
<pkern> ScottK: So I fill upload nspluginwrapper now?
<ScottK> pkern: No universe uploads are being accepted until after the CD images are done, but I just realized I forgot to get the UVFe for that.
<pkern> ScottK: But I could get them into unaccepted?
<pkern> flashplugin-nonfree is prepared, too
<ScottK> soren: Would you please ack bug 151288.  It's yummy.  pkern promises.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151288 in nspluginwrapper "Please merge nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5 from Debian Unstable (Contrib)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151288
<ScottK> pkern: Yes.  Once soren gives us permission.
<pkern> Aye.
<ScottK> I'll be back in ~45 minutes.
<bddebian> Hmm, cdbs and a -data package.  That'll be a new one for me
<pkern> cdbs o_O
<pkern> It shouldn't exist! :-P
<bddebian> It was already kinda packaged :-(
<DktrKranz> pkern, mind to sponsor a debian package?
* pkern goes filing a RC bug "packaging is too easy with cdbs". Just kidding.
<pkern> DktrKranz: Maybe :-P
<DktrKranz> no cdbs :D
<pkern> Hah :D
<DktrKranz> it solves an outstanding bug...and my previous sponsor did not ping back
<pkern> You just probably link me to a dsc *hint hint*
* DktrKranz points...just a second
<DktrKranz> pkern, http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/b/boa-constructor/boa-constructor_0.6.1-2.dsc
<pkern> ScottK: I won't commit to nspluginwrapper's bzr too. core-dev ;)
<pkern> What a pun.
<_16aR_> Hello
<_16aR_> In about how much time a package is reviewed under revu.tauware.de ?
<pkern> _16aR_: After Gutsy?
<pkern> Or rather: When Hardy reopened.
<pkern> s/reopened/opens/ \:
<_16aR_> Ok
<_16aR_> So everyone is in rush for Gutsy release right now, that's it ?
<pkern> I would disagree about the rush bit :-P
<norsetto> _16aR_: after Gutsy is over the answer anyhow is "depends"
<pkern> People contribute to Debian instead. :-P
<DktrKranz> o/
<_16aR_> lol
<norsetto> _16aR_: what package is that?
<_16aR_> that a lib package
<_16aR_> i've put about 3 lib packages ^^
<pkern> -XS-Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~dktrkranz/boa-constructor/debian
<pkern> DktrKranz: Fun :-P
<DktrKranz> yep :)
<norsetto> _16aR_: the best, once Gutsy is over and you think you have a good work ready, is to come here and askk for a review
<_16aR_> hawknl, gnelib and replicantbody
<pkern> DktrKranz: Out of curiosity: Is that Python-Version: all stuff really necessary?
<_16aR_> ok
<norsetto> _16aR_: links will be very helpful
<_16aR_> I haven't internet since 2 month ^^
<DktrKranz> pkern, moving to python-central seems to require it
<pkern> DktrKranz: Because it somehow sounds silly.
<pkern> Hm k
<_16aR_> i've uploaded from a VirtualBox at my work ^^
<_16aR_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=319 : hawknl
<DktrKranz> pkern, if you omit it, pycentral will blow you during install
<pkern> Sounds funny (:
<_16aR_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=320 : gnelib
<_16aR_> (replicant body)
<_16aR_> gnelib has been a mistake since it depends from hawknl ... ^^
<DktrKranz> sounds scary...I had to face it :)
<norsetto> _16aR_: a quick one, use hardy as distribution, and ubuntu version numbers
<_16aR_> 1.6.8-1ubuntu1 for example ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: actually, since this is not in debian (right?), it should be 1.6.8-0ubuntu1
<_16aR_> ok
<_16aR_> I thought ubuntu version number was only to use on an already debianized package
<norsetto> _16aR_: try also to keep the changelog to the bare minimum to start with; like "first issue only", and only change the time tag at the end
<siretart> _16aR_: well, that way we can sync an potential 1.6.8-1 upload to unstable.
<norsetto> _16aR_: can you add a watch file?
<_16aR_> norsetto: sure ... But I may check what's that ^^
<_16aR_> <norsetto> _16aR_: try also to keep the changelog to the bare minimum to start with; like "first issue only", and only change the time tag at the end : didn't understand you on that one :/ sorry
<norsetto> _16aR_: sorry, I've got a very lousy connection tonight. Here is a link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/DebianWatch
<norsetto> _16aR_: what I mean is, that we don't need to have recorded in the changelog the changes you made in the packaging before it is released
<norsetto> _16aR_: of course it is appreciated if you add it in the comment box in REVU
<pkern> DktrKranz: Sorry for the delay, got distracted by someone else. ;)
<pkern> DktrKranz: Looks good, will rebuild and upload/.
<DktrKranz> pkern, no hurry...
<DktrKranz> thanks :)
<_16aR_> norsetto: ok, understood ^^ But since I was testing PPA too, i had to increase package revision to have the possibility to upload it again
<norsetto> _16aR_: I don't think we need this one in DOCS: readme.macintosh
<_16aR_> (to PPA)
<_16aR_> norsetto: ups ^^
<norsetto> _16aR_: for ppa you can add a ~ppaXXX at the end
<norsetto> _16aR_: just remove it when the package is ready for upload
<pkern> DktrKranz: Done, thank you for your contribution to Debian.
<DktrKranz> pkern, thanks for time and sponsorship
<norsetto> _16aR_: didn't check the tarball, is there no README, changelog, or anything else from upstream?
<_16aR_> norsetto: it is VERY light
<_16aR_> and the makefile was quite ugly
<contrast83> RAOF: Hey, you around?
<norsetto> _16aR_: I hope there is a COPYING or equivalent?
<_16aR_> norsetto: not sure ^^
<norsetto> _16aR_: better make sure then or it won't be uploadable
<_16aR_> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> _16aR_: just checking some sources, I see some more copyrighters that you need to add to copyright
<_16aR_> Ok
<norsetto> _16aR_: for instance Copyright (C) 2000-2002 Phil Frisbie, Jr. (phil@hawksoft.com)
<norsetto> _16aR_: and there is no mention of a license, so, no COPYING and no license headers......
<_16aR_> norsetto: damn. I wasn't sure about copyrighting at the time packaging it. I didn't check every source file, in fact
<_16aR_> ok, then I must contact upstream to change that
<_16aR_> I will update the package with the tips you indicate me
<_16aR_> while waiting for license modification
<norsetto> _16aR_: some sources are LGPL, so you need to mention that in copyright too
<_16aR_> norsetto: the watch file permit the auto download of new tarballs ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: yes
<_16aR_> norsetto: and how it is managed if the patchs doesn't apply again ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: you get an error :-)
<_16aR_> norsetto: and the package doesn't compile, or it compile with the original source ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: what are those patches btw?
<_16aR_> norsetto: makefile patch to add $(DESTDIR)
<_16aR_> and modif in some makefile because of character misplacement
<_16aR_> (used multiple space instead of tab if I remember right)
<ajmitch> hello jono
<jono> hey
<norsetto> _16aR_: the best of course is to ask upstream to correct those
<imbrandon> heya jono
<_16aR_> norsetto: sure. But this project wasn't the real one to interest me, it was only a dependency from another one
<_16aR_> norsetto: so at the moment, I've only contacts with the other project upstream
<norsetto> _16aR_: yeah, but for us they are all alike
<_16aR_> norsetto: you're right ^^ I was just explaining why I didn't contact this upstream at all
<_16aR_> (at the moment)
<norsetto> _16aR_: what do you mean that gnelib was a mistake?
<_16aR_> norsetto: it depends on HawkNL ^^
<_16aR_> I've missed that when I uploaded it ^^
<norsetto> _16aR_: ok
<_16aR_> So it cannot be uploadable until hawknl is ok
<_16aR_> norsetto: replicantbody should be ok though
<jono> hey im
<jono> imbrandon:
<norsetto> This is not correct in install: debian/tmp/usr/local/lib/lib*.so.* usr/lib/
<pkern> bddebian: So if Ari assumes that you are `just talking', just I put weight into that? I mean Ari is known to talk... strange things. :-P
<ScottK> pkern: Since it's in Universe now I'm going to suggest (after we get done with this release) that nsplugingwrapper get pulled from their SVN.
<pkern> ScottK: s/SVN/Bzr/?
<pkern> Or I didn't get it ;)
<ScottK> Yesh.  svn/bzr.
* ScottK doesn't know what a multiverse package is doing in a core-dev VCS (of any flavor).
<ScottK> That or I'll decline to listen to whining about not using the repo.
<_16aR_> norsetto: in gnelib ?
<ScottK> StevenK, zul, or soren: I'd really like to let pkern push Bug #151288 uphill.  One of you please ack....
<ScottK> The bot doesn't like me today.
<norsetto> _16aR_: no, I'm still looking through hawknl. Do you need that because you could not specify the right prefix?
<ajmitch> pkern: ari? strange?
<ScottK> soren: As an added bonus: Debian released a fix for openssl0.9.7 arbitrary code execution issue today.  Since the only thing we have that needs openssl0.9.7 is vmware-player and it's broken, I'm thinking remove the lot from the archive before release.  Opinions?
<pkern> ajmitch: Well Clint in conjunction with Ari.
<pkern> ScottK: Let's remove vmware-* 1.x :-P
<siretart> ScottK: which multiverse package is in a core-dev VCS?
<ScottK> nspluginwrapper.
<ScottK> pkern: vmware-server is in the Canonical commercial repo, so I can't touch that one.
<pkern> ScottK: Don't be bothered with that.
<pkern> ScottK: But the multiverse ones.
<ScottK> Right.
<ajmitch> pkern: a truly disturbing combination
<_16aR_> norsetto: no, it must be a bug. I should only have 1 .so and links to that, but not multiple copy of libs
<pkern> Well Clint may be changing. His blog entries look... sensible currently.
<pkern> I fear that. :-P
<ScottK> pkern: You want to do the vmware-player/openssl0.9.7 removal bugs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Removals
<norsetto> _16aR_: apparently hawknl doesn't depend on anything, is it ok?
<_16aR_> yes
<_16aR_> only libc :')
<ScottK> Gotta run and play Daddy for several hours, so see you all later.  pkern fire away on nspluginwrapper and company if you get another motu-uvf ack.
<_16aR_> it was the most little lib of the dependencies of delta3d, but since it was the first for me... It was hard ^^
<pkern> ScottK: Aye.
<norsetto> _16aR_: you should delete README.Debian
<norsetto> _16aR_: contentwise looks ok
<_16aR_> norsetto: oh, it was still here ?
<_16aR_> norsetto: I'll move it then
<_16aR_> norsetto: I think this page isn't enough for copyright : http://www.hawksoft.com/free.shtml
<norsetto> _16aR_: no, but this is more relevant: http://www.hawksoft.com/hawknl/
<_16aR_> yes, but COPYING and all header to source code should still be included into archive, no ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: I'm not a lawyer, but I don' t think a web page replaces the fact that there must be a verbatim copy of the LGPL with the source code
<geser> without a copy of the license text in the orig.tar.gz it won't get accepted by the archive admins
<pkern> ScottK: rdeps on libssl0.9.7: aolserver4-{nsopenssl,nsimap}
<_16aR_> yep
<norsetto> _16aR_: can you add the homepage to the long description?
<norsetto> _16aR_: I'm getting a strange error when I compile twice, I would have to look into that
<_16aR_> norsetto: never tried it twice without pbuilder
<norsetto> _16aR_: instead of "Developpement library" you could say "This package contains the development libaries and headers"
<norsetto> _16aR_: well, I do it with a pbuilder hook
<norsetto> _16aR_:  s/libaries/libraries
<norsetto> _16aR_: he, you really got some stuff into gnelib
<mneptok> try "development liberries" to make users *extra* confident
<mneptok> mmm .... berries
<ScottK> pkern: Odd.  I missed that one when I looked.  Maybe it should die too?
<norsetto> _16aR_: do you really need to rerun the autoconf stuff?
<_16aR_> <norsetto> _16aR_: he, you really got some stuff into gnelib : that means it is bad ? :'(
<_16aR_> norsetto: don't remember, but I do it once, no ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: for the one that has to review it, yes :-)
<pkern> ScottK: Removal requests done. #151424 and #151423
<_16aR_> norsetto: sorry, these are my first package
<_16aR_> norsetto: I hoped they'd be nearly cool, but it seems they're not :/
<norsetto> _16aR_: why not? seems you've been doing a nice job
<pkern> ScottK: aolserver4-nsopenssl is currently bug free.
<pkern> And it's installable.
<pkern> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=408221
<ubotu> Debian bug 408221 in aolserver4-nsopenssl "aolserver4-nsopenssl: recompile against latest libssl0.9.8" [Normal,Open] 
<pkern> No response from the Debian maintainer since >250d
<pkern> openssl097 was already removed from unstable
<pkern> Which means that this package is probably uninstallable in unstable.
<RAOF> contrast83: Not really :)
<_16aR_> norsetto: thanks, but there is still work to do
<contrast83> RAOF: Yo yo...
<_16aR_> norsetto: I'm just finishing my own repo with reprepro/autobuilding and then I'll correct hawknl
<norsetto> _16aR_: sure, there always is, but its pretty minor stuff (only stopper is the license so far)
<contrast83> RAOF: Remember when we were talking about how to better implement GNOME apps into the K Menu earlier?
<RAOF> Yeah, kinda?
<pkern> ScottK: It was binnmued to 0.9.8, so that sounds like an action to take for Ubuntu, too.
<_16aR_> norsetto: I had a SDK which is proprietary and I'm sure it cannot be uploaded :( So I must have my own repo to share it
<pkern> Reprepro with autobuilding? o_O
<pkern> Now if you have a solution for that, let me know.
<_16aR_> pkern: bash scripts ^^
<_16aR_> pkern: but it sucks ass
<pkern> I set up wanna-build yesterday night, but the buildd solution is still missing.
<contrast83> RAOF: I was blabbing about the altered .desktop files I use for Firefox, GIMP, Synaptic, etc. so their name - description syntax matches that of the KDE apps. I think I figured out a practical way to implement this
<RAOF> contrast83: Cool!
<norsetto> _16aR_: what was licensed under?
<RAOF> pkern: Poke seveas - falcon is growing buildd claws.
<RAOF> :)
<_16aR_> pkern: hmmm, not so bad after all, it has compiled a package i've just dput ^^
<_16aR_> pkern: but the script only works for 1 account
<contrast83> RAOF: the user can install a package containing a script that checks for commonly installed GNOME apps, and when they run that script, it'll replace the relevant lines in whatever GNOME .desktop files it finds via SED
<pkern> RAOF: (:
<pkern> RAOF: I grabbed the Debian wanna-build, so there was this ancient version of sbuild. I would rather use cowbuilder but well.
<pkern> mrvn will get me his ocaml version of buildd but *shrug* ocaml...
<norsetto> _16aR_: you should change this: Maintainer: Dolanor Tharivae <dolanor@evereska.org>
<_16aR_> pkern: it needs lots of tweaking. There one script called with dput (it do the reprepro command) and there a "daemon" which looks the buildTmp dir to pbuilder the content
<_16aR_> norsetto: in gnelib ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: well, its your gnelib link, but it is really replicantbody
<pkern> _16aR_: I need two arch autobuilding (the one which is missing).
<_16aR_> norsetto: I think I've done it on PPA, but not on revu since it was too hasty to put it (since the dependency with hawknl couldn't be verified
<_16aR_> norsetto: ah yes. I thought i'd updated replicantbody on that though
<norsetto> _16aR_: I noticed that you have no versioning in your deps. You sure its ok like this?
<_16aR_> pkern: I don't know if my script can help... There are really bad call to pbuilder and reprepro, some mv/rm, and that's all
<_16aR_> norsetto: I've tried to add versionning like in the libpkg-guide, but the script for versionning wasn't found. I didn't look for it afterwards
<_16aR_> norsetto: So I let without versionning
<norsetto> _16aR_: you don't need this: +debian/tmp/usr/lib/librvrutils.so.0.0.0  usr/lib/ in librvrutils0.install
<_16aR_> norsetto: oh ? Why ?
<norsetto> _16aR_:  because you are just coipying the same file in the same location
<_16aR_> norsetto: hu ? Everything in debian/tmp/ will be copied as is ?
<norsetto> _16aR_:  in .install the first element is relative to the current directory, ythe second to the build directory
<_16aR_> norsetto: I mean, the deb archive will be done from debian/tmp ?
<norsetto> _16aR_: yes
<_16aR_> norsetto: some would say : OMGWTFBBQ !
<_16aR_> norsetto: this IS an enlightenment !
<_16aR_> lol
<_16aR_> So my every package stinks foot ...
<_16aR_> I copy every time from debian/tmp/usr/lib/ to usr/lib
<_16aR_> nearly every time
<norsetto> _16aR_: well, they had some convoluted logic in them .....
<_16aR_> I like harrassing CPU for nothing !
<_16aR_> I thought the .install things copy from build dir to a chroot env. But it seems the build dir IS the chroot env ^^
<norsetto> _16aR_: yes again :-)
<_16aR_> norsetto: I must be retard... Hmmm there's quite few packages to modify then ... :p
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-11
<norsetto> _16aR_: do you need to copy the same README, AUTHORS and NEWS in all your binary packages?
<_16aR_> norsetto: Is it an obligation ? I thought so
<pkern> ScottK: aolserver4-nsopenssl is already rebuilt on all arches except amd64, which is why it showed up for me.
<norsetto> _16aR_: no, its not an obligations. But, its a bit silly to have them in two packages which are linked dependency-wise
<norsetto> _16aR_: like a lib and a lib-dev
<_16aR_> norsetto: I've got a question. When multiplebinary packages have been created from one source. How can we say : this libbalbla.so goes there, ths libbloublou.so goes there ?
<_16aR_> norsetto: sure
<norsetto> _16aR_: if the upstream makefile doesn't do it?
<pkern> ScottK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8792926/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-amd64.aolserver4-nsopenssl_3.0beta22-3build4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz -- That looks like an aolserver4 bug.
<norsetto> _16aR_: use .install or your install target to move them
<_16aR_> norsetto: so my .install has a function, no ?
<pkern> DktrKranz: Could you look into that please?
<pkern> DktrKranz: You fixed aolserver4 some time ago.
<_16aR_> debian/tmp/usr/lib/librvrutils.so.0.0.0  usr/lib/ in librvrutils0.install : if i have let it into debian/tmp/usr/lib/, it couldn't have spearated from librcfg, no ?
<DktrKranz> pkern, yes...looking
<pkern> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<DktrKranz> pkern, is a new version? I don't recall any nsopenssl
<_16aR_> norsetto:  and I've another question : is it OK to package every .so into 1 .deb ? I've seen some package like OpenSceneGraph which are all .so into 1 package
<norsetto> _16aR_: yes, because the second one is in debian/librvrutils/usr/lib
<pkern> DktrKranz: No.
<pkern> DktrKranz: Seperate source package.
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks
<pkern> DktrKranz: But build failed in aolserver4 postinst.
<pkern> On amd64 only, though.
<DktrKranz> anyway...it seems conflicting with an existing app which runs on port 80
<DktrKranz> sounds weird only to amd64, though
<_16aR_> norsetto: finally I was not too wrong on this then ^^ Phew
<norsetto> _16aR_: you have few lintian E/W to work through too
<norsetto> _16aR_: no, it was ok (cdbs magic :-))
<pkern> DktrKranz: Buildd app probably
<pkern> DktrKranz: And the second line looks strange too.
<DktrKranz> pkern, no amd64 boxes here...I'll try on PPA
<pkern> DktrKranz: The second line is triggered.
<pkern> DktrKranz: Address already in use was on i386 too.
<DktrKranz> Fatal: nsmain: prctl(PR_SET_DUMPABLE) failed: Invalid argument
<DktrKranz> that's the issue...
<pkern> Exactly.
* DktrKranz gets i386 too
<pkern> It fails with "/usr/sbin/aolserver4-nsd: error while loading shared libraries: libnsd.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" here on install (amd64).
<pkern> T
<pkern> "Trying on recover" succeeds then afterwards.
<pkern> s/on/to/
<DktrKranz> pkern, could you please try to run it on your amd64 box to see if it fails to configure?
<DktrKranz> no problems here...
<DktrKranz> on i386
<pkern> DktrKranz: As said, it fails in postinst first, in trying to recover it succeeds.
<DktrKranz> whoops...didn't noticed...
<DktrKranz> pkern, ldd /usr/sbin/aolserver4-nsd | grep nsd.so
<DktrKranz> i get libnsd.so => /usr/lib/aolserver4/lib/libnsd.so (0xb7f51000)
<pkern> Me too. May this be a confusing ldconfig trigger issue?
<DktrKranz> perhaps, not sure...
<DktrKranz> pkern, gotta go right now, let's schedule that for tomorrow. I'll have a deeper look
<pkern> ScottK: DktrKranz will look at aolserver4.
<pkern> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<ScottK> pkern: Cool.  Getting nervous about time ...
<ScottK> pkern: He's not yet a MOTU, so he'll need a sponsro
<DktrKranz> pkern, could I ping you to make some tests?
<ScottK> sponsor...
<pkern> DktrKranz: Possibly. ;)
<DktrKranz> ScottK, np about that...I can ping bluekuja
<pkern> ScottK: Where exactly is a problem with that?
<ScottK> zul: pkern got the dependency issue sorted on nspluginwrapper.  Howabout an ack now?
<ScottK> pkern: With what?
<pkern> ScottK: Getting a sponsor. ;)
<bluekuja> pkern: yeah, np
<ScottK> Ah.  Just mentioning.
<pkern> But that makes me curious. apt-get rdepends is not entirely helpful because it's highly arch-dependent.
* DktrKranz is going now... *really*
<DktrKranz> gnight all
<pkern> Bye DktrKranz
<ScottK> gnight
<ScottK> pkern: Yes.  I see that now.
<norsetto> g'night evrybody
<ScottK> g'night norsetto
<_16aR_> is it possible to run pbuilder without root privilege ?
<pkern> _16aR_: No.
<_16aR_> but with a special account
<_16aR_> pkern: ok, that's bad
<pkern> Well it needs the chroot capability.
<_16aR_> How can I modify a .zip to an .orig.tar.gz without ruining the timestamps etc ?
<PhreeStyle-home> hello, I'm interested in learning how to be a motu. I send an application in for a mentor a couple weeks ago and have not gotten any kind of response. I'm sure it's due to lack of manpower, so I'm wondering if someone here wouldn't mind being a mentor
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Ok.  I'm sure someone here will, but just hanging around here is also good :)
<PhreeStyle-home> thanks :) I was begining to wonder if my message was sent
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: I'm a freshly minted MOTU, and I learnt primarily by hanging around here :)
<PhreeStyle-home> well, I'm like a complete noob in all this...I am a windows developer, so coming into linux is a completely different ball game
<PhreeStyle-home> I want to learn to eventually write applications for linux, so I figure a good start would be to learn how handle package management
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Ooooh, a bona-fide developer.  What language(s)?  What would you like to do? :{
<RAOF> :)
<PhreeStyle-home> Well, I come from C#, so it's going to be a rough ride.
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: No, not at all.  See mono :)
<PhreeStyle-home> I'm interested in desktop development...I like making front ends for otherwise tedious tasks
<RAOF> Many of the windows apps youv'e coded should run without changes in linux anyway :)
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Oh, hurray!  We always need more frontends ;)
<PhreeStyle-home> Actually, I have not had good luck with mono
<RAOF> Ah.
<RAOF> Well, your C# knowledge should be largely portable, at least :).
<PhreeStyle-home> most of my applications go a little farther than a notepad clone and if I even touch a listview control, you can bet it won't work right in linux
<PhreeStyle-home> I sure hope so :)
<RAOF> You'll probably want to learn the gtk# libraries, though.
<PhreeStyle-home> the one thing that bothers me though is that mono is not highly looked upon
<RAOF> I was under the impression that as long as you didn't p/invoke, mono was very nearly a .net dropin.  But I've never needed to test it.
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Only by the uninformed.
<PhreeStyle-home> possibly true
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Mono is an official Gnome dependency.
<RAOF> (For tomboy, and f-spot)
<PhreeStyle-home> well i figured I would end up writing gnome applications anyways...there's something about KDE that just rubs me the wrong way...not sure why
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: I find it's the amazing over-abundance of options, at least last time I checked :)
<PhreeStyle-home> Well that's true, but I've always had problems with consistency...with theming, menu arrangements and last time I used it, it was very buggy....applications wouldn't start unless started two or three times
<PhreeStyle-home> and that was 3 months ago...that's the scary part
<RAOF> So, there's actually nothing much that you need to know about packaging in order to do C# development.
<PhreeStyle-home> well, even C# programs need to be packaged at some point, right?
<slangasek> RAOF: lack of information is not why I don't look highly upon mono. :)
<RAOF> slangasek: :P
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: True.  But C# programs are generally easy, since your tools tend to put stuff in the right place automatically.
<RAOF> slangasek: Why *do* you not look highly on mono?
<PhreeStyle-home> i'm curious too...most say because of memory footprint and slowness
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Basically, as long as you release a tarball that builds your project from source, it's easy enough to package.
<RAOF> (The frikkin' Tao project is an example of the contrary :()
<imbrandon> PhreeStyle-home: take a look at monodevelop, 99% of my .net apps i write work without modification , normaly even not even recomilation in linux
<imbrandon> just copy to the linux box, mono blah.exe and go, and no they arent notepad closes either
<imbrandon> clones*
<PhreeStyle-home> imbrandon: I tried monodevelop at version 0.14 and it crashed saving a code file only 5 lines long
<slangasek> RAOF: PhreeStyle-home seems to have nailed it; that's very nice and all that some folks find C# makes development faster, but I'd like to run my desktop on real-world hardware thanks
<slangasek> also, patents
<zul> PhreeStyle-home, I would start at reading some documentation and looking at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MTOU/TODO
<zul> er http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<imbrandon> slangasek: real world hardware? heh i do most of my development and packing on a p200 including mono
<PhreeStyle-home> I looked at all the suggested reading for motu stuff, but I guess it will take a little hand-holding for me to understand it a bit better
* RAOF runs *his* desktop on real-world hardware, and the only mono thing that's slow is banshee, because it uses rubbish data-structures.
<imbrandon> PhreeStyle-home: feel free to ask away, we always try to help out when we can
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Unless you're uncomfortable asking on a public channel like this, you don't *need* a mentor :)
<RAOF> We're all very friendly here.
<PhreeStyle-home> that's good to know....alot of times I go into a channel and get ignored...that is obviously not the case here :)
<RAOF> (Except for LongPointyStick, she's sharp and dangerous :P)
<PhreeStyle-home> :P
<imbrandon> lol
<RAOF> So, what's the changelog syntax for closing multiple bugs at once again? (LP: #bug1, #bug2, #bug3)?
<PhreeStyle-home> well let me ask a question then, if I were to try and learn gtk# programming in c#, what would be a good sample application to try and build?
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: As in: something we'd like to see, or something that exists that you can learn from?
<PhreeStyle-home> I don't know.. either i guess
<crimsun> RAOF: LP: #foo, LP: #foo, IME
<PhreeStyle-home> something easy :)
<PhreeStyle-home> the first app I thought of making was a front end to mount cifs shares that actually works
<PhreeStyle-home> but i figured that would be a bad way to start...especially if I were to hose the fstab file
<RAOF> That's probably not a great candidate right now, since gvfs is comming really soon now, and should be awesome.
<imbrandon> banshie and f-spot are both gtk# iirc, but also not system.windows.forms also works just fine, i use that personaly for portability of pure .net accross windows/linux/osx
<RAOF> tomboy notes is probably good, too.  That's fairly simple.
<imbrandon> s/not/note
<RAOF> crimsun: Thanks.
<PhreeStyle-home> so would it be a good idea to make it in system.windows.forms first, then try to port it to gtk#? Is that a good exercise?
<imbrandon> PhreeStyle-home: personaly thats what i would do if you are wanting to learn gtk# , that way you see the relationship of them
<imbrandon> but thats just how _i_ learn, do whats best for you
<PhreeStyle-home> yea that might be the best thing then...if I have any problems running the system.windows.forms version on the linux side would I be able to get a little help in here? The mono channel is usually pretty empty
<imbrandon> depends on the time and whats going on, but most likely a bit, but just rember its not a support chan and not all mono ( or even most ) devs
<imbrandon> :)
<PhreeStyle-home> i figured :)  what is the most common programming language among devs?
<imbrandon> in ubuntu ? python has a good following
<RAOF> Python *does* rock :)
<PhreeStyle-home> it will be a while before I get comfortable with python...I went through a few tutorials and the whole time I was trying to relate the information with what I know about C# and I think that is a bad way to approach Python...at least for me
* ajmitch hugs python
<RAOF> C is a perenial favourite for people who want their code to fail in mysterious ways on x86-64
<RAOF> (Libvisual, I'm looking at you!)
<RAOF> C++ for those krazy KDE folk.
<imbrandon> pykde ( python ) is the kubuntu choice mostly
<PhreeStyle-home> yea, I'm not a big C/C++ fan...I know that's what all operating systems are based on, but it's....different
<slangasek> RAOF: I like my C code to work on all architectures just fine :)
<RAOF> C (the way Gnome uses it)/C++ are OK.  But as long as you've got unittests, python is so much more understandable I find.
<RAOF> slangasek: You obviously don't write uint32_t when you mean intptr_t all the time then :(
<slangasek> no, indeed I do not
* RAOF screams at the number of apps that do that.
<PhreeStyle-home> ok, I know this is really, really bad...and I will get yelled at for this...but I don't really know how to use unit tests
<slangasek> because I actually understand C :)
<ajmitch> slangasek: sadly, not enough people do
<slangasek> RAOF: (have been an alpha porter for Debian for years; amd64 folks have it *easy*)
<RAOF> slangasek: You have the added fun of endianness, right?
<slangasek> (i.e., try running a 64-bit platform /before/ 64-bit has achieved critical mass)
<PhreeStyle-home> i know it's good coding practice and all, but I could never figure out how to use the testing in my code
<slangasek> RAOF: nah, Linux/alpha is little-endian
<RAOF> PhreeStyle-home: Not a lot of people do use unittests, at least that I find.  Test-driven-development (a quick google should help here) is wonderful though, especially in python.
<RAOF> You don't *have* to have unittests in python, but it's so much easier if you do :)
<RAOF> Right.  That upload closes all but one of the libvisual-plugins bugs.
* persia congratulates RAOF
<RAOF> I've also updated the bug with the minimal autoreconf patch, for the OP's future reference.  He at one point asked how small the changes could be :)
<RAOF> Not me that gets congratulating; good ol' darkmagez!
<persia> Well, DarkMageZ fixed all the bugs, but the patch has scared off many a revewer these past few months :)
<RAOF> This is true :)
<PhreeStyle-home> blah...I loaded one button onto the stetic designer and monodevelop crashed :(
<blueyed> StevenK: re bug 151379: do you think it's OK to leave out the ABIVER from the module name?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151379 in virtualbox-ose-modules "Please provide virtualbox modules for 2.6.22-14" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151379
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi RAOF
<blueyed> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello blueyed
* RAOF wonders whether the jakdaw visualisation is *meant* to give people photosensitive seizures
<StevenK> blueyed: Maybe, maybe not. The problem with leaving it out is people get confused when it doesn't load due to an ABI bump.
<blueyed> StevenK: but it won't load in any case, as long as there's no new version around, correct?
<blueyed> Therefor it should be somehow integrated in linux-meta, shouldn't it?
<blueyed> (at least in Hardy then)
<blueyed> StevenK: can you confirm that my debdiff did not work on any arch?
<StevenK> blueyed: With or without, it still won't build - the code is in virtualbox-source, and it doesn't build.
<ScottK> StevenK: pkern (when he wakes up I guess) has Bug #151288 sorted.  If I could get another motu-uvf ack it'd be one less reason for Automatix to exist.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151288 in nspluginwrapper "UVFe: Please merge nspluginwrapper 0.9.91.5 from Debian Unstable (Contrib)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151288
<ScottK> StevenK: asac ~blessed the upload.
<StevenK> ScottK: But zul commented "nack, please fix the dependency issue"
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes and pkern has it fixed.
<ScottK> He's tested it and everything.
<ScottK> Since he's MOTU, he'll just upload once I get an ack.
<StevenK> ScottK: Stamped.
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<bddebian> Speak of the Devil :-)
<pkern> Hah.
<pkern> ;)
<StevenK> We were talking about him, not too him. :-P
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> pkern: All yours then.
* pkern ponders why http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-motu-2007-10-10.html wasn't updated shortly after I left. ;o)
<ScottK> jtbl: Any luck on the artwork license?
<pkern> ScottK: And that means what? :-P
<jtbl> i heard the icon comes from some other gmail app package
<ScottK> pkern: It means the UVFe for nspluginwrapper has been stamped approved.
<ScottK> jtbl: Any hint which one?
<jtbl> i didnt find out the exact package
<ScottK> Ah.
<pkern> ScottK: Aye.
<ScottK> persia: ^^^ Is the enough of a hint (I don't know how many gmail packages there are)?
<pkern> ScottK: When should one "nominate bugs for release"?
<ScottK> pkern: When one feels that the release ought not happen without them being fixed except the day before the RC milestone it better be pretty big (since they've already spun the RC CDs).
<pkern> Hm k.
<StevenK> Uh, the RC CDs have been spun three times.
<ScottK> pkern: Now that you've had ubuntu-dev stamped on your forehead you're expected to have sufficient judgement to sort it out.
<pkern> flashplugin-nonfree/nspluginwrapper uploaded.
<persia> ScottK: Maybe.  I'll take a look around.  If nothing else, there are other gmail-ish icons about.
<bddebian> Just don't tell your Debian brethren ;-P
<pkern> ScottK: And not get spoon-feeded? Well, that's LP stuff ya know.
<ScottK> pkern: Yeah, well you probably know enough to figure it out at this point.
<persia> jtbl: If you happen to get any further information, please let us know.
<ScottK> persia: That'd be great.
<pkern> asac: So there it is your use-case ;)
<pkern> ScottK: Yeah, crawling the wiki like everytime before. :-P
<pkern> ScottK: I more of less accidentally nominated the vmware-player stuff for release. Now that may have been wrong.
<ScottK> pkern: Don't worry, whatever you find there is probably wrong anyway.
<ScottK> pkern: pitti will "tell" you if it is.
<pkern> ScottK: Ok.
<pkern> ScottK: Yeah, policy is moving. \:
<pkern> ScottK: Or LP, whatever. ;)
<StevenK> % lintian *_amd64.deb | wc -l
<StevenK> 31
<StevenK> Ugh...
<ScottK> He likes removals so even if it was overkill, he'll have a good sense of humor about it.
<ScottK> pkern: And if it's not wrong, it'll have been moved to where I can't find it.
<ScottK> jtbl: The nspluginwrapper upload is done, so you can remove that from what you all are planning on providing.
<pkern> ScottK: My point why I ask those things is "what's current policy and what has been agreed on".
<ScottK> pkern: Well those two things don't always line up.
<StevenK> Whoever wrote qmv, I want to bear your children.
<ScottK> pkern: I'll warn you that this is yet another Ubuntu related topic I'm a little bitter about.
<bddebian> Uh-oh
<ScottK> Yeah, thus the warning.
* bddebian cowers in the corner ;-)
<pkern> bddebian: We're not in Teletubby land here.
<bddebian> hah
<ScottK> It's almost like he thought I had the LongPointyStick.
<pkern> https://gallery.debconf.org/main.php?g2_itemId=24445
<pkern> And http://mugshot.org/visit?post=ZJWKs0cvTAz1J2
* pkern giggles
<ScottK> StevenK: Any opinion on Bug 151289
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151289 in esvn "Please merge eSVN 0.6.12 from debian lenny/sid to Gutsy - fixes svn incompatibility." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151289
<StevenK> Yeah, well, we all know Joss is a bastard
<pkern> ScottK: NACK at that.
<pkern> ScottK: http://durotan.0x539.de/~pkern/esvn-screenie.png
<pkern> ScottK: At least the version in Gutsy works.
<pkern> (We had that topic... this morning? yesterday?)
* ScottK was away for most of the discussion.
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.
<jtbl> i have no clue where that icon came from
<jtbl> i have searched everywhere i can think of
<jtbl> i still think someone contributed it to us
* ScottK doesn't know joss personally, but some of his mail to the Debian Python lists are, um, interesting.
<ScottK> jtbl: Thanks for looking into it.
<jtbl> the only other suggestion is to use an icon from kcheckgmail
<ScottK> jtbl: At this point if we get a .desktop with artwork of some sort that's related to gmail, I think it'll be good.
<pkern> ScottK: I guess we could bigon who prepared the debdiff if it failed for him.  At least somebody (I'd guess the submitter) was here yesterday, I showed him the screenie and he confirmed that would mean that the bug's away.
<pkern> OTOH that was filed only 12h ago.
<ScottK> pkern: Now I'm confused.  Are you saying we should and should not update the package?
<persia> jtbl: If you think the kcheckgmail icon is nice enough, that's an easy patch.
<ScottK> It sounds like a good integration thingy to do, but I'm not sure.  That's why I ask around.
<jtbl> yeah it should be fine
<persia> jtbl: OK.  Thanks.
<ScottK> persia: I think that's plenty good.
<ScottK> jtbl: Got any other issues we can try to work in?
<pkern> ScottK: I only see that it's broken in Feisty.  But I'm doing further checking.
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.
<jtbl> nope
<jtbl> thats all i can think of
<jtbl> it looks like icedtea made it into universe
<ScottK> Great.  Let's work on this earlier in the release cycle next time...
<persia> pkern: I don't know if it still works, but one used to be able to use dchroot to a pbuilder or lvm chroot to test gui packages against a target distro in local X.  If that still works, it's a handy way to test if you're on a previous release.
<jtbl> that will allow amd64 users to have a decent java plugin
<ScottK> To the extent that's possible (decent and java going together) sure.
<RAOF> jtbl: Really?  Awesome.  That meants I'll get bothered by stupid java applets in my browsing again.  Woooooo!
<jtbl> yeah
<jtbl> it was just posted today
<pkern> esvn (0.6.11+1-4) unstable; urgency=low
<pkern>   * Implement parser for .svn/entries with format > 6 (Damien Caliste).
<pkern>    (Closes: #387447)
<pkern> ScottK: Fix already present in Gutsy.
<pkern> persia: I'm on Gutsy.
<pkern> persia: Which I regret, but well.
<ScottK> Gah.
<jtbl> and with the updated nspluginwrapper 64 bit firefox is ready for the new flash plugin which should be out soon
<pkern> ScottK: So a clear NACK from me.
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable to me.
* persia wonders if there is anything in the new esvn other than a merge of debian patches
<PhreeStyle-home> does anyone else here use monodevelop to develop gui applications?
<pkern> persia: gcc 4.3 fixes, windows titles
<pkern> persia: Nothing special or outstanding.
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.  I marked it wontfix
<pkern> ScottK: Fine.
<persia> pkern: gcc fixes come from Debian.  I don't know about the titles :)
<bddebian> You know it seems like it took eons to get from 3.4 to 4.1 now it seems like there a new gcc every freakin' month :)
<ScottK> bddebian: Time just seems to move faster as you get older.
<persia> bddebian: Watch: there will be a large delay between 4.6 and 5.1 (and 5.0 will be useless, except for a new taiwanese supercomputing architecture)
<bddebian> Well that's probably true :-(
<bddebian> persia: Heh
* persia remembers the interminable delay from 2.8 to 3.x
<ScottK> I guess talking about gcc version numbers was just too exciting for some people.
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> I've got my list of "Stuff I was planning on doing before the RC freeze" done, so let me know if anyone has something.
* pkern wonders why http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-motu-current.html tracks #u-devel
<persia> ScottK: I've two things on my list: getting current sbuild and current schroot not to report "Chroot mode deprecated" when mounting LVM snapshots, and adding an icon and .desktop file to checkgmail.  Either of those appeal to you?
<ScottK> persia: No.  I don't know enough to deal with either of those.  Sorry.
<persia> pkern: The logs are only 80% reliable.  It's be right tomorrow (usually only one day is bad, for each channel, for each three weeks or so)
<ScottK> I wasn't dodging the .desktop thing because I was busy.
<bddebian> There has to be some new crack crack to upload somewhere ;-P
<persia> ScottK: I'd be happy to walk you through the .desktop thing: the only blocker for me right now is that I'm not on an Ubuntu system.
<ScottK> Urgh.  I was afraid you'd say something like that.
<RAOF> bddebian: There's always Xgl - you don't have to feel I've got an exclusive lock on that crack!
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> heh
<persia> OK.  First, you'll want to grab the package, the target .desktop file, and the target icon.
<ScottK> persia: What package am I doing?
<persia> ScottK: I think it's checkgmail.  I'll check LP.
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  checkgmail 1.12-1
<ScottK> Looks right.  We have one of those
<ScottK> I got kcheckgmail too so I'll have the icon
<persia> ScottK: OK.  First thing is to find the icon in kcheckgmail.  If you're lucky, it's already uuencoded in debian/
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> persia: I'm doing this on a PIII/700 with 256MB RAM, so be patient.
<persia> ScottK: No problem.  Most of what's being done isn't processor-intensive.
<persia> ScottK: Do you have an text representation of the icon?  (.uu, .xpm, .svg, etc.)
<ScottK> I have a .svg I think
<persia> SVG is good.  No silly uuencoding rules.
<persia> Check license compatibility.  If you can, copy the svg file to the target debian/ directory.
<ScottK> Checking
<ScottK> Both GPL v2 or later, so that's good
<persia> Makes it easy :)  Next, grab the .desktop file from Automatix
<ScottK2> Grabbing
<persia> Install desktop-file-utils, and run `desktop-file-validate checkgmail.desktop`.  You'll need to edit the file a bit to match the instructions.
<ScottK2> OK
<ScottK2> checkgmail.desktop: warning: key "Encoding" in group "Desktop Entry" is deprecated
<bddebian> Yeah, don't need that anymore
<ScottK2> checkgmail.desktop: warning: value "Application;Network;" for key "Categories" in group "Desktop Entry" contains a deprecated value "Application"
<persia> ScottK: Just delete the "Encoding" line from the file, and make sure it's UTF-8.
<bddebian> Remove Applications
<ScottK2> So just remove the first one
<persia> ScottK: Also, listen to bddebian :)
<ScottK2> So remove them both
<bddebian> Remove the whole encoding line.  Remove Applications from the categories line
<persia> ScottK: Keep "Network", but drop "Application".  Delete the entire line with "Encoding"
* bddebian shuts up now
<ScottK2> Of course the icon name doesn't match my file name.  I should adjust that too I assume.
<StevenK> ScottK2: Bug 151289 rubber stamped
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151289 in esvn "Please merge eSVN 0.6.12 from debian lenny/sid to Gutsy - fixes svn incompatibility." [Undecided,Won't fix]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151289
<persia> ScottK: Ideally the you want "Icon=checkgmail", and to have your icon named "checkgmail.svg".  Don't worry about a path.
* persia thought esvn uvfe was "won't fix"
* pkern giggles.
<ScottK> persia: Double stamped confirmed won't fix
<persia> heh
<ScottK2> persia: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/40225/
<ScottK> StevenK: You might want to refresh and look at my comment before yours unless I'm misreading "do it"
<persia> ScottK2: Drop the extension from checkgmail.svg: that way someone can theme it with a .png (or whatever).  It eyeballs fine: does desktop-file-validate produce anything?
<ScottK> No result at all.  I'll drop that
<persia> ScottK2: Drop the modified .desktop file also in debian/
<ScottK2> It's there
<persia> Does the package use dh_install or CDBS?
<ScottK2> dh_install
<persia> Easy then.  Add 'usr/share/pixmaps' and 'usr/share/applications' to either debian/dirs or debian/checkgmail.dirs (as appropriate)
<pkern> Hm. /me is not tired.
<pkern> But I guess I should sleep anyway. \:
<persia> Install the .svg to usr/share/pixmaps and the .desktop to usr/share/applications in the .install file.
<persia> (for those just lurking: if neither dh_install nor CDBS is in use, one must edit the rules file to manually install things)
<pkern> Yeehaw MOTU school. :D
<ScottK2> pkern: I try real hard to avoid this GUI stuff.
<ScottK2> persia: Looking again, dh_install is commented out in debian/rules
<ScottK2> There is dh_installmenu enabled.
<persia> ScottK2: Your call: I usually uncomment, but you can also do the install -m 644 stuff.
<ScottK2> Uncomment and add a .install file I guess
<RAOF> Also, in future this logic is planned to be moved to dh_icons at some point, irght?
<persia> dh_installmenu is for .menu files, rather than for .desktop files.  While the Debian menu can be enabled in Ubuntu, doing so isn't trivial, and not intended by default.  On the other hand, populating menu files is best practice for feeding Debian.
<persia> RAOF: No.  It would be part of dh_desktop.
* persia notes that the current implementation of dh_desktop is only useful for configuring the MIME database, but it should be better at some point in the future
<persia> ScottK2: That's it.  Maintainer mangle, Add changelog, Build, install, and there should be an icon in the menu.
<ScottK2> persia: Is it gonna work on KDE?
<bddebian> Should
<ScottK2> OK
<persia> ScottK2: It should.  I've closed lots of "Icon doesn't show in the K-Menu" bugs with variations on that procedure.
<ScottK2> Let me fiddle with this then and I'll whine if I can't figure it.
<pkern> mailman_2.1.5-8sarge5.fsmi8.etch1 -- Now this is a funny version number. 2.1.5-8, sarge revision 5 (security updates), own revision 8 (patches), forward ported to Etch. :D
<tonyyarusso> Erm, I can't figure out where I'm supposed to file bugs against Drivel - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drivel, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/drivel, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=drivel, or multiple ones of the above?
<pkern> Primary point for users would be https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drivel
<pkern> Or rather s,.edge,, ;)
<RAOF> The first is for bugs against the Ubuntu packages, the second is probably just to have the ability to forward LP bugs to the upstream bugtracker, which would be the third one :)
* ScottK heads to the liquor cabinet while it builds
* pkern is currently consuming a (1) beer.
<tonyyarusso> oof
<tonyyarusso> My bug is a feature request, not Ubuntu specific.
<RAOF> Then the 3rd option is probably most appropriate.
<RAOF> that's the upstream bugtracker :)
<persia> tonyyarusso: LP/ubuntu/ is the catchall, LP/drivel/ seems experimental, and b.g.o : drivel appears to be the active upstream tracker
<tonyyarusso> If I filed it upstream, would there be any handy way to keep tabs on it within LP?
<tonyyarusso> (Just so I don't have to log in as many places)
<persia> tonyyarusso: You might add the feature request to both: new Ubuntu people looking for something to do might try to implement if there's a pointer.
<persia> tonyyarusso: Add a new bug at LP/ubuntu/drivel, and link to upstream.
<tonyyarusso> persia: good call
<ScottK> The "not real" drivel project in LP is what LP want so creat for ALL upstreams of Ubuntu packages so that linking to the upstream bug tracker will work.
<ScottK> They swear it's a scalable solution.
* ScottK wants some of what they're taking.
* RAOF wholeheartedly agrees with ScottK that this is a sub-optimal solution.
<tonyyarusso> Oh hey, it looks to already be filed.  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=311023
<ubotu> Gnome bug 311023 in general "MovableType/WordPress entries can't have multiple entries" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] 
<persia> ScottK2: Are you sure?  I thought they wanted to link to upstream somehow, but not necessarily in LP.
<tonyyarusso> not a very well named bug, but oh well
<ScottK> persia: Via a project for each upstream.
<persia> ScottK: Does it say that somewhere?  How is it imagined that "upstream" bugs in LP will be communicated with developers?  Actually, don't answer that except perhaps with pointers: this isn' t the right forum...
<ScottK> persia: It's in the "No, let us LP developers explain how bug status is supposed to be used, you're doing it wrong" thread on devel-discuss
<persia> ScottK: I somehow missed that.  I'll review the thread again.  Thanks.
<ScottK2> persia: It's possible it was on IRC too, but I recall kiko saying somewhere that it was no big deal to add the projects and he'd be glad to personally add any we wanted.
<ScottK2> persia: It's in the menu, but without the icon.
<ScottK2> Help
<ScottK2> I looked and checkgmail.svg is in the right spot.
<persia> ScottK2: Without the icon?  Does KDE handle .svg icons in the icon cache?  Alternately, I'm an idiot, and forgot to tell you to add dh_icons to refresh the icon cache.
<ScottK> persia: Where do I add it?
<ScottK2> persia: After dh_install in debian/rules?
<tonyyarusso> Okay, added in LP as well as Bug #151475
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151475 in drivel "Drivel can not handle multiple categories" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151475
<persia> In install:, but looking at http://diablo.ucsc.edu/cgi-bin/man/man2html?dh_icons+1, it only taks about gtk-update-icon-cache.  Doesn't KDE have an icon cache?  I need to look to figure out how to update.
<ScottK2> persia: I told you I stay away from this kind of stuff.
<persia> ScottK: Are you using KDE3 or KDE4?  Icon cache is supposed to be in KDE4, but not in KDE3.  If there's no cache, I'm not sure why the icon isn't loading, as svg icon support was added to KDE in 2002.
<ScottK2> Trying dh_icons
<ScottK2> KDE3
* persia is confused.
<ScottK2> It should be there for Gnome anyway, so I'll leave it regardless
* ScottK2 too.
<ScottK2> Fortunately the package builds pretty quickly.
<persia> ScottK2: My apologies.  Usually it just works (at least for me).
<persia> bddebian: Any ideas?
<ScottK> imbrandon: You around?
<bddebian> Sorry, what'd I miss
<ScottK> Well, as expected, that didn't help.
<persia> bddebian: The .svg is in usr/share/pixmaps, and properly referenced by the .desktop file, but doesn't display in the K-menu.  KDE3 doesn't use the freedesktop icon cache, so dh_icons doesn't matter.
<ScottK2> Let me look at what kcheckgmail does a little closer.
<bddebian> You can try dh_iconcache but it shouldn't be necessary
* persia notes that dh_iconcache was a temporary Ubuntu hack, and has been superceded by dh_icons
<bddebian> Ah, see what do I know? :-)
<ScottK> I do have working .svg icons in /usr/share/pixmaps.
<ScottK> Looking to see where kcheckgmail hides it's icon
<bddebian> Does the menu item show at all and not the icon or does the icon just not appear
<persia> ScottK: Just to confirm, you have "Icon=checkgmail" and /usr/share/pixmaps/checkgmail.svg, right?
<imbrandon> ScottK: yea, now i am
<ScottK> imbrandon: I'm trying to add a .desktop with an icon to checkgmail and it doesn't work (no icon) in KDE.  Any hints?  Scrollback for painful amounts of detail.
<ScottK> persia: Double checking
<imbrandon> ScottK: whats the icon filetype
<ScottK2> .svg
<imbrandon> kde3 dosent do svg icons
<persia> imbrandon: Really?  There are patches out there for svg icons since 2002.
<bddebian> I was thinking that but I wasn't sure
<ScottK2> Hmmm.
<imbrandon> persia: yea i have no idea why no one has added it but thats the case
<ScottK2> Well that would explain it.
<imbrandon> we've run into it before
<persia> ScottK: You said you had working svg icons.  Which?
<ScottK> persia: Well wine drops a .svg into usr/share/pixmaps.  I assume that was the icon I was seing, but maybe not.
<persia> ScottK: Is there also a wine.ping or wine.xpm?
<persia> s/pin/pn/
<ScottK2> All the wine stuff in there is .svg
* persia is still confused.
<bddebian> What about the hicolor/whatever/whatever/ dirs?
<ScottK2> Looks like kchekgmail uses .pngs (from upstream).
<cereal_killer> can someone help me with a quick (well not so) .deb packing problem?
<ScottK2> If this is a KDE only issue, we needn't worry.
<persia> ScottK: So kcheckgmail generates .pngs from the .svg for installation?  That's an excellent example of providing source for binaries :)
<cereal_killer> when i pack build my deb everything goes fine but there should be files under DEBIAN/usr and others so the file heirachy is not being created and therefore i'm basically creating an empty .deb
<ScottK2> If I upload this package to REVU, will someone on Gnome pull it down and build/test it?
<ScottK2> persia: Upstream tarball has .png too.
<cereal_killer> well, DEBIAN/package/usr etc
<bddebian> ScottK2: I can
<ScottK2> bddebian: Thanks.
<persia> ScottK2: That's fine.  I don't mind included PDF files with docbook source.
<bddebian> cereal_killer: If you build locally nothing ends up in debian/... ?
<bddebian> cereal_killer: It should either be in debian/tmp/... or debian/<package-name>/...
<cereal_killer> bddebian: i created in my ~ dir /packages/package/package-number
<ScottK2> bddebian: Uploaded.  Waiting for it to appear on REVU.  I'll give you a link when it's there
<cereal_killer> bddebian: i'm just creating the deb in my home dir, not installing it
<bddebian> cereal_killer: Right.  I'm saying if you are in the package-version dir and run dpkg-buildpackage or debuild use -us -nc and see where the files go under package-version/debian/
<cereal_killer> bddebian: so after dh_make, dpkg-buildpackage is built in the /debian dir?
<cereal_killer> i'm not quite understanding, sorry
<cereal_killer> it's telling me it's making the files in the directories though lol
<cereal_killer> well, creating them in the debian dir
<bddebian> cereal_killer: Yes, once you have the debian/ dir created from dh_make and make any appropriate changes.  You would typically run dpkg-buildpackage or debuild to build your source and/or binary packages.  If you pass -us (unsigned source) and -uc (don't clean the tree) it will leave whatever files it creates under debian/
<cereal_killer> what is debuild? I've never heard of that
<bddebian> It's just like dpkg-buildpackage.  I don't personally use it but many do
<cereal_killer> discard that question
<cereal_killer> man has the answer :)
<bddebian> ScottK2: What's the name of the package?
<ScottK> bdq
<ScottK> Urgh
<ScottK> bddebian: checkgmail
<bddebian> Well where the hell is it? :-)
<ScottK> I don't see it there (I double checked I didn't upload it to the archive by mistake).
<ScottK> Any REVU admin around?
<bddebian> Ah, there it is
<ScottK2> Cool
<ScottK2> Yeah.  That one.
<ScottK2> I'm going to go clean the oven.  Let me know how it works out....
<ScottK2> bddebian: Thanks for testing.
<bddebian> Heh, np
<StevenK> Ugh.
<StevenK> I *hate* the local shopping centre during school holidays
<bddebian> Man I've installed soo much BS on this poor laptop
<bddebian> ScottK2: Just looks like a big Google G ?
<ScottK> bddebian: Yeah.  That's it.
<bddebian> Works like a charm :-
<bddebian> )
<ScottK2> bddebian: Thanks.
<bddebian> No, THANK YOu :-)
* ScottK2 ponders the homage he'll put in debian/changelog for bddebian's testing effort.
<bddebian> hah
<ScottK2> Your taking that back now, aren't you.
<bddebian> Nope, you rock d00d
* ScottK2 hopes /whois has the right spelling of your name.
* ScottK2 is going to get in trouble for this debian/changelog entry, but what the heck.  It's probably my last Gutsy upload ...
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Obviously you haven't seen some of mine ;-)
<imbrandon> lol
<ScottK> To late to worry about it now.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: do you have time for a quick pm?
<joejaxx> :)
<ScottK> Thanks again persia and bddebian.
<joejaxx> Hello everyone
<joejaxx> hello gnomefreak :D
<bddebian> ScottK: NP
<gnomefreak> hello joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
<ScottK> jtbl: checkgmail with ,desktop is uploaded.  You can get rid of that one too.
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> bddebian: do you know where the autorun directive for the menu package is?
<ScottK> StevenK: Any interest in looking at the Automatix source for Gutsy to see if they've met their claim of fixing all the stuf mjg59 complained about?
<joejaxx> as it seems it is disabled on ubuntu
<joejaxx> either that or we went through and removed a whole bunch of postinst hooks which i do not think happened
<bddebian> joejaxx: I don't, sorry
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> oh ok
<StevenK> ScottK: None.
<ScottK> StevenK: OK.
<ScottK> jtbl: libsigc++-2.0-0c2a is in ia32-libs too.
<joejaxx> because menus are not being generated on ubuntu automatically
<joejaxx> well when packages are installed
<joejaxx> so i am guessing something to do with install-menu?
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<joejaxx> Goodnight bddebian :D
<joejaxx> persia: would you happen to know ? :)
<ScottK> That's who I was going to suggest.
<joejaxx> ScottK: :)
<persia> joejaxx: Debian menu, GNOME menu, K menu?
<joejaxx> debian menu
<persia> joejaxx: I'm not on a Ubuntu system to check, but I think you want dh_installmenu, which should put a call to update-menu-<something> in the postinst.
<joejaxx> yes
<_nand_> hi!
<_nand_> I'm looking for some pointers on menu items installation on debian file...
<joejaxx> but i think there is a systemwide setting for it as i do not think we went through and removed the install hooks in the postinst for packages
<_nand_> lol it seems we are in the subject already :)
<joejaxx> lol :)
<persia> _nand_: man dh_installmenu and the menu package documentation
<_nand_> persia: i have read about the file menu e.g. ?package(ike): ....
<_nand_> persia: but what if i want to install a .desktop file?
<_nand_> it don't have enough information to generate it from the menu file...
* _nand_ is searching...
<persia> _nand_: Ah.  That's not the debian menu at all :).
<_nand_> persia: hmm... do i have to make a menu entry for both debian and kde/gnome?
<persia> There's a (bad) script to leverage the menu-xdg package to autogenerate the .desktop files available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles
<persia> _nand_: You'll want two entries: a menu file and a .desktop file.  They are separate, but both usful.
<_nand_> ok i have them :) Any pointer on an automatic way to install the .desktop file, or do i just add a line in the rule file?
<_nand_> (to do it "properly" )
<persia> _nand_: You'll need to install manually.  If the package uses dh_install or CDBS, putting it in the debian/package.install file is preferable to adding a line to debian/rules.  If the package uses debhelper, but not dh_install (and is obviously not a dh_make template), use dh_install lines in debian rules.  Otherwise, use install -m 644
<joejaxx> persia: for example for the installation of non-modified debian packages on ubuntu the menu does not generate which is why i am looking for the systemwide change :)
<persia> _nand_: Icons go in /usr/share/pixmaps, .desktop files go in /usr/share/applications, and .desktop files should neither specify a path nor an extension for the icon.
<_nand_> persia: ok thanks for the info!
<persia> joejaxx: Ah.  Do you mean the magic that auto-generates .desktop files from the Debian menu, and inserts the results into the regular system menu?  That's in the menu-xdg package.
<joejaxx> persia: no :P i mean whatever hook that was disabled in ubuntu stopping update-menus from running everytime a package was installed
<persia> joejaxx: I didn't know such a thing was in place.  I don't see it in the pseudochangelog shown from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debhelper, nor do there appear to be any Ubuntu patch to the menu or menu-xdg packages.
<joejaxx> persia: yes that is why i am confused to why this is happening
<joejaxx> since none of those packages are changed
<joejaxx> and we definitely did not go through all the debian packages and rip out any update-menu postinst hooks
<persia> joejaxx: The especially odd bit is that I've seen changes to my Debian menu when installing packages on my workstation recently, for which I expect update-menus would need to run, and previous in-channel discussion on .desktop files has shown that the standard menus are updating on instalation.
<joejaxx> persia: interesting
<persia> Curiouser & Curiouser: usr/bin/update-menus comes to us from Debian directly.  Is the menu package perhaps not installed?
<joejaxx> oh no it is definitely installed :)
<ScottK> Well it looks like the RC images are done as Universe uploads are being accepted again.
<ScottK> Latest WINE crack is in the repos.
<StevenK> What version?
<ScottK> 0.9.46
<persia> OK.  dh_installmenu from debhelper-5.0.51ubuntu3 inserts postinst and postrm hooks to call update-menus, if `which update-menus` succeeds.
<joejaxx> persia: yeah
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> brb testing a theory
<persia> And update-menus is installed (without alternatives) by menu 2.1.34, and does the necessary to call registered menu-methods backends.
<jtbl> i have a question about the wine package
<jtbl> are there any plans to backport future versions into gutsy
<ScottK> jtbl: It can be done into gutsy-backports.
<jtbl> ok
<ScottK> After the Hardy repos open
<ScottK> !backports | jtbl
<ubotu> jtbl: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<jtbl> i was thinking about using the wine package in the ubuntu repos for automatix instead of the one in the winehq repos
<ScottK> jtbl: Why do you need one in the automatix repos?
<ajmitch> I think it's mainly using automatix as a package installer, right?
<persia> jtbl: That's certinaly easier for use to support.
<jtbl> right now we have wine as an installation option but we use the package from the winehq repos not ubuntus
<ScottK> I see.
<persia> umm.. s/tina/tain/ ; s/use/us/
<ScottK> So you'd use gutsy-backports?
<ScottK> jtbl: If Scott Ritchie will continue to provide us packages and they test out on Gutsy, backporting is no problem.
<jtbl> the only reason we used their packages is that they were updated faster
<jtbl> ok
* persia suggests just calling `aptitude install wine` to automagically select between gutsy, gutsy-security, gutsy-updates, and gutsy-backports
<jtbl> i would prefer to use the ubuntu package over the winehq package
<jtbl> right
<ScottK> jtbl: We'll probabaly lag them ~ 1 week for our processes as long as people are willing to help.
<ScottK> persia: sounds like a good Hady feature ...
<jtbl> automatix does check and see if backports is enabled
<ScottK> Does it enable it if it isn't?
<persia> ScottK: It was a warty feature :)
<Hobbsee> O.O
<ScottK> Ah.
<jtbl> yes
<ScottK> jtbl: Are you still doing anything with clamav?
<jtbl> if backports is disabled automatix will enable it
<jtbl> no
<jtbl> we removed clamav
<ScottK> OK.
<jtbl> and firestarter
<ScottK> persia: I did not know that.
<jtbl> well we were installing the clamtk frontend
<ScottK> Well the clamtk in feisty-backports works about as well as clamtk ever does.
<jtbl> we didnt see a purpose in having it
<ScottK> The released version for Feisty was hopeless.
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> ScottK: Well, it assumes the relevant repositories are enabled.  aptitude just selects the newest package by default.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<jtbl> i did remove a lot of options in the gutsy version of automatix
<ScottK> persia: Ah.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch!
<superm1> jtbl, am i to understand that you've addressed a lot of the items that were listed in !automatix then?
<ScottK> persia: I was thinking some special grab wine from backports because we are SURE you want the latest crack for that package magic.
<jtbl> whats remaining is stuff you cant go into gnome-app-install and check one box and have it get installed
<jtbl> yes
<ScottK> superm1: That's what he's said.  I haven't had a chance to do a code review.
<superm1> jtbl, that's very good to hear.
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  That's called enabling the backports repository.
* ScottK looks around for someone to do a code review....
<jtbl> i addressed even more than that
<jtbl> i figured out a way to stay safe with upgrades
<jtbl> stick with ubuntu repo packages, and limit the use of third party repos
<jtbl> another is sources.list editing
<jtbl> the only repos automatix uses in gutsy are the ubuntu repos and automatix's
<persia> jtbl: Is there much coordination between the medibuntu and automatix repositories, or do they meet different needs?
<jtbl> well we do use medibuntu's libdvdcss and w32/w64codecs packages
<jtbl> but we dont use their repos
<ScottK> A quick grep shows that 'killall -9 dpkg' is now commented out (but oddly still present).  So that's progress.
<jtbl> i just left that for testing purposes
<jtbl> if no one is having trouble it goes
<StevenK> And how does killing dpkg help testing?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: haha
* persia dreams of a single untrusted (but with a known key) source for all illegal, immoral, and otherwise unavailable add-ons for Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> persia: i think that's medibuntu
<jtbl> alot of the stuff that was mentioned was no longer needed
<ScottK> jtbl: If it's still present, Automatix will be viewed as unreasonably dangerous.  Whatever trouble it's absence causes, you need to find another way.
<Hobbsee> although, we can do installer scripts and whatnot for the nasty stuff
<jtbl> i do think that medibuntu should be the de facto ubuntu repo for illicit packages
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The good news is that all the stuff we can legally ship that they were going to ship is now sitting waiting for RM approval.
<jtbl> there is one problem with medibuntu
<StevenK> "illicit packages" -- makes it sounds like the packages are full of drugs and kiddie porn.
<RAOF> They aren't?
<persia> Hobbsee: That's what I thought, but I don't know if it's specifically unofficially true, so I don't know if it's bad to copy a subset to the automatix repository, which may have other things not in medibuntu.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: in universe, i take it?  it'll get it
* RAOF cancels his download
<StevenK> RAOF: :-)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.
<persia> StevenK: hotbabe?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: well, hotbabe. does automatix distribute hotbabe yet?
* Hobbsee ^5's persia
<persia> medibuntu does
<StevenK> Meh, hotbabe isn't
<ScottK> Hobbsee: checkgmail, nspluginwrapper, flash-nonfree, and the ia32-libs one was already released.
<jtbl> here is the automatix teams stance on medibuntu
<persia> StevenK: If hotbabe isn't kiddie porn for you, you don't have the right skin installed :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: they should get shoved thru, then.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Can you shove?
* Hobbsee hasnt ever actually looked at hotbabe - source or otherwise.
<jtbl> we do test for compatibility with the free component and if users decide to use those packages they wont have any issues
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ENOARCHIVEACCESS
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.
<jtbl> however the non-free section is different
<persia> jtbl: When you say non-free, do you mean restricted/multiverse, commercial, medibuntu, or all of the above?
<jtbl> i have check the amd64 packages in non-free and they install 32bit components into 64 bit directories
<jtbl> like placing stuff in /usr/lib instead of /usr/lib32
<jtbl> the non-free section in medibuntu
<jtbl> medibuntu has two sections free and non free
<jtbl> non free contains closed source software like skype, acrobat reader, and google earth
<persia> jtbl: Ah.  That's clearly wrong.
<Hobbsee> how are tehy managing acrobat reader?
<persia> ScottK: When you next feel like chasing really-undistributable, perhaps you'll chase the medibuntu packages?
<jtbl> however their packages for amd64 install 32 bit binaries and libraries where only 64 bit versions should be
<ScottK> persia: No.
* persia intensely dislikes hunting down random 32-bit code on 64-bit systems.
<jtbl> the cool thing is that adobe now has a deb of acrobat reader on their site
<jtbl> but only for i386
<jtbl> however they install acrobat  reader into /opt
<StevenK> Ew
<jtbl> so it would make building an amd64 package easy
<jtbl> as far as google earth automatix just pulls it directly from google
<jtbl> and installs it using google's installer
<ScottK> May main beef with Automatix was installing stuff from Ubuntu repos that didn't need any extra help, moving files to non-standard locations, various dangerous stuff like sigkilling dpkg, and having the nerve to blame unfixed Ubuntu bugs as why there stuff didn't work when they hadn't tried to help fix the bugs.
<ScottK> May/My
* persia is becoming convinced the automatix repository may be preferable to medibuntu.
<ScottK> None of that applies to medibuntu.
<ScottK> That's a change.  At least if you're on 64bit.
<jtbl> here is what we do on amd64
* ScottK is on 32 bit, so ...
<ScottK> But since I live in the US, I'd never install that stuff anyway.
<jtbl> for acrobat reader we take the tar.gz directly from adobe and place it in /opt/automatix/acrobatreader
<jtbl> same goes for skype
<jtbl> and for google earth we use the official google method of installation
<jtbl> now their packages are just fine on 32 bit
<jtbl> and the free packages are ok on both platforms
<jtbl> its the nonfree packages on 64 bit i would avoid
<jtbl> also some people install 32 bit software on amd64 by taking an i386 deb and using --force-architecture
<jtbl> automatix doesnt do that
<ScottK> It's time for me to get some sleep.  Hobbsee if you see an actual RM around later, I'd appreciate it if you'd ask them to accept checkgmail, nspluginwrapper, and flash-nonfree
<ScottK> Good night all.
* Hobbsee rofl's at http://tinyurl.com/2jpvqq
<Hobbsee> ScottK: they should be shunting all universe stuff thru.  and thanks for the inference about me not being a real RM.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Sorry.  SHould have said someone with ARCHIVEACCESS.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I can't even keep all the job titles straight in my house.  Ubuntu is beyond me by a fair margin.
* RAOF wastes time with memecats
* ScottK procrastinates going to bed by seeing if his test server will run linux-image-2.6.22-14-server correctly (it's on Gutsy).
* ajmitch dies
<ScottK> ajmitch: Not yet.  There are bugs left.
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> there'll always be bugs
<ajmitch> you seen how many are left on the rcbugs page?
<Hobbsee> until you fix them all
* ScottK reboots an waits.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Not so many as there once were.
<ajmitch> still far too many, and I've barely touched any
* persia schedules time to hunt down the new djangoified URL and fix something
<ajmitch> if we're still allowed to fix anything
<persia> ajmitch: Why wouldn't we be?
<ajmitch> archive freeze, keeping buildds clear at some point
<ScottK> persia: linux-image-2.6.22-14-server
<ScottK> ajmitch: The keeping the buildd's open phase appears to be over.
<ajmitch> ScottK: it'll come back soon enough
<persia> ScottK: What about the server kernel?
<ScottK> ia32-libs and WINE got through.
<ScottK> persia: Still waiting for the reboot.
<ScottK> persia: Came up just fine and appears to be working.
<Hobbsee> actually, i wonder why the archive stuff doesnt build thru the EU night
<Hobbsee> the universe stuff
<ajmitch> the servers are tired?
* ScottK guesses no one awake who can accept stuff.
<persia> ScottK: While I appreciate the updates I can't help wondering if you didn't mean to tell someone else about it (although my memory for context is particularly poor today)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: there might be.  asking.
<ScottK> persia: [01:20]  <persia> ScottK: What about the server kernel?
<gnomefreak> what file controls the log in options (gnome, kde, enlightenment)
<ScottK> persia: You ask, I answer.  Not sure why you ask.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Cool.  Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: That was response to "ScottK: persia: linux-image-2.6.22-14-server"
<ScottK> Oh.
<ScottK> persia: Ah.
<persia> gnomefreak: Do you mean the selection of environments available in foo-dm?
<ScottK> persia: Sorry.  That was meant to be persia: http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
<gnomefreak> persia: yeah
* ScottK really should go to bed.
<persia> ScottK: That makes more sense.  Thanks :)
<ScottK> Good night all.
* gnomefreak trying to test a WM but cant load it without an entry in login screen
<persia> gnomefreak: I believe that each x-session-manager registers itself somewhere in /etc, but that's about the limit of my knowledge.  I do know that you'll want to hunt "session managers" instead of "window-managers".
<persia> gnomefreak: For testing: try a xwm session, kill xwm from an open terminal, and launch your preferred wm from within that terminal.
<StevenK> Using alternatives
<StevenK> sudo update-alternatives --display x-session-manager
<gnomefreak> persia: was hoping to not have to do that each time
<nixternal> I just did an interview for O'Reilly on "the day in the life of a MOTU", so hopefully my pimpage will draw in some fresh blood for hardy
<gnomefreak> StevenK: that wont add it to gdm/kdm
<gnomefreak> brb lets try this
<persia> gnomefreak: Alternately, hijack one of the existing session options to launch your alternate WM.
<_nand_> hey, i have another packaging question :)
<Hobbsee> shoot
<_nand_> the app i package is providing .so libs that he only will use
<_nand_> so it is necessary to provides shlibs files?
<Hobbsee> checked what the debian library packaging guide says?
* Hobbsee doesnt know - doesnt do libraries
<persia> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<persia> _nand_: The official guide is the URL above, but you will need a shlibs file if you expect any clients to depend on the library, otherwise they won't get automated dependency management.
<_nand_> yes they say i should... but in my case no one will ever depend of these libs
<_nand_> so ok let's say i will put shlibs file
<persia> _nand_: If you have internal libraries (as I think you may), you can omit this file.  In general, best practice is to split the package into separate binaries, and provide shlibs, just in case.
<_nand_> persia: ok that was what i was looking for
<_nand_> thx
<persia> _nand_: There will never be any clients?  In that case, why a shared library?
<_nand_> persia: i was meaning they won't be a separate package using these shared libs
<_nand_> maybe later, but right now no
<persia> _nand_: If "maybe later", better to have multiple binary packages (foo, libfoo, and libfoo-dev), and ship a shlibs file.  If "never", better to link statically.
<_nand_> persia: you're right
<persia> In the rare case where it's "never", and the upstream build system doesn't support static linking against the private library, you can skip the package split and shlibs file.
<_nand_> persia: i should check with upstream :)
<_nand_> thx for the info!
<LaserJock_> goodness, gutsy's got some issues :/
<persia> LaserJock_: Which ones now?
<dholbach> good morning
<jussi|no2> morning Daniel
<pwnguin> arrg
<pwnguin> short of ssh, any ideas for figuring out what permissions gnome-screensaver-dialog runs under?
<Flannel> pwnguin: cron?
<pwnguin> well, i was looking for something less painful than ssh
<pwnguin> not more painful
<persia> pwnguin: `while true; do ps augx | grep gnome-screensaver-dialog; sleep 5; done > logfile` ?
<persia> pwnguin: Alternately: trace the codepath back from the dialog, and see from where the permission is inherited.
<LaserJock_> persia: I did a fresh install of the latest RC candidate
<LaserJock_> scrollkeeper is messing up most package installations
<LaserJock_> compiz is nasty
<LaserJock_> my computer is trying to overheat
<LaserJock_> firefox is taking *forever* to do anything
<persia> LaserJock_: Ah.  I thought there were dpkg-hooks for scrollkeeper and compiz is compiz (and certainly generates more heat).  I don't have a handy excuse for firefox.
<LaserJock_> I keep having to killall scrollkeeper-update to install anything
<LaserJock_> compiz was just acting weird, I don't know if it was slowing down anything necessarily
<persia> Did scrollkeeper not get the postinstall magic (implemented, say, for ldconfig)?
<LaserJock_> persia: I don't know
* persia looks
<LaserJock_> it just pegs my cpu doing scrollkeeper-update
<LaserJock_> so I kill it
<LaserJock_> then it finishes installing the package
<LaserJock_> then the next one that calls scrollkeeper-update does the same thing
<LaserJock_> I had to kill it like 20 times
<persia> Makes sense.  Looking at the logs, there's not been much work on scrollkeeper in the past 4 months.  I suspect it needs a poke, as scrollkeeper-update seems like a major target for the postinstall-hooks (e.g. Bug #44535)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 44535 in scrollkeeper "multiple scrollkeeper-update makes apt upgrade very slow" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/44535
<persia> Ooh!  Bug# 119614 even makes it more exciting :)
<LaserJock_> bug #119614
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119614 in scrollkeeper "avoid several instances running simultaneously" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119614
<LaserJock_> yeah, I was seeing basically that
<dholbach> hey LaserJock_, hey persia
<LaserJock_> it was pretty much a showstopper here
<persia> I'm guessing there's a good chance of corrupting the scrollkeeper-db by the combination of the two, but I don't really know much about scrollkeeper internals.
<persia> Hi dholbach.  Do you know of curret scrollkeeper efforts?  The install experience is sounding suboptimal.
<dholbach> it's going to get replaced with rarian next cycle
<dholbach> scrollkeeper ist dead for 3-4 years already
<persia> dholbach: Do you mean "Hardy" by "next cycle".
<dholbach> yes
<persia> I was only thinking about a single scrollkeeper-update run at the end of all the application installations.  From what Laserjock said, installation can be painful.
<dholbach> that could be done with dpkg triggers
<dholbach> if somebody sat down and did it
<dholbach> it's not going to happen for gutsy
<persia> dholbach: Ah.  I didn't think the trigger would be that hard.  I won't bother with it if it's that definite that it can't happen for gutsy.
* persia sees the published decision from 19.07.07
<dholbach> you can try to talk to the release team, but I guess there's going to be a certain reluctance 7 days away from release
<dholbach> there's a lot that can go wrong: fucked up postinst, non-installable packages, etc etc
<persia> dholbach: I guess it depends on whether other testers have similar experiences.  Based on Ian's statement, I get the impression that triggers work, but need some real testing, and aren't suitable for gutsy.
<dholbach> we use it for some things already
<superm1> i've seen triggers work for delaying update-initramfs, and that works out well
<persia> Should only be ldconfig and initramfs (unless the decision is out of date)
<dholbach> I think it'd have been fine 4 weeks ago, but I'd be surprised if the release managers allow it now
<persia> Ah.  Looking at the spec, it appears all the clients need to be rebuilt: it's not something that can be implemented for the annoyingly slow package.  Never mind: that's too hard to get done in time.
* persia had previously thought it would only involve updating scrollkeeper
<huats> morning all
<dholbach> hey huats
<huats> hello dholbach
<huats> how are you ?
<dholbach> good good - how are you?
<huats> good, good... A bit overwhlemed at work... but it is ok
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> does anyone know a fast solution to wipe a server with a 3pass method (like dban dod)?
<\sh> right now I need with dban dod method 110 hours for 7TB
<\sh> moins jono
<pwnguin> on a scale from 1 to ten, how bad is adding a user to the root group?
<pwnguin> slangasek: if you remember our conversation about fingerprinting and pam, it turns out that the uinput module is simply used to feed sudo and friends a <cr>
<persia> pwnguin: If 1 is sunrise, and 10 to total protonic reversal, about a 3
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> i think your scale lacks granularity
<pwnguin> i challenge you to come  up with a patch that ranks a 6 on such a scale
<persia> pwnguin: I'm not sure that can be done without specialised peripherals.
<pwnguin> well, uinput seems to default to root perms only
<pwnguin> this is quasireasonable
<persia> pwnguin: Right.  uinput allows the injection of anything to the kernel, so can simulate devices to which the user would not otherwise have access.
<persia> If you just want to feed a <cr>, it's easier to use the user's current input device, to which the user can typically write, and inject it into the stream there.
<BugMaN> good morning :)
<pwnguin> this sounds like it assumes x
<persia> pwnguin: Nope.  /dev/input/foo is one injection point.  /dev/ttybar is another.  Determining the user's environment sufficiently to inject the input is a separate issue.
<pwnguin> persia: i meant the fix
<pwnguin> so removing uinput is possible
<pwnguin> and doesnt assume x. this sounds better then
<pwnguin> persia: currently, the uinput stuff mostly works. sudo is fine, and so is gdm. gnome-screensaver-dialog, however, runs as a user, not suid
<persia> pwnguin: So the remaining issue is to trap & catch the "lock screen" prompt from the screensaver?
<pwnguin> persia: this means a) it cannot access the authentication data, and b) it can't grab uinput to write that <CR>
<persia> pwnguin: How does gnome-screensaver-dialog currently pass credentials to pam?
<pwnguin> persia: well, remaining issue i care about. it doesn't have localization support, and im sure it needs more thought
<pwnguin> i dont think g-s-d passes credentials...
<pwnguin> g-s-d loads various pam modules
<pwnguin> as per pam standards, and they do their business
<pwnguin> persia: at the moment, i patched in some ACL support, and people say it works as long as they add themselves to root for uinput support
<pwnguin> this sounds bad to me
<persia> pwnguin: It's roughly as bad as the user being able to sudo without a password.
<pwnguin> so it defeats the purpose of the entire package
<persia> pwnguin: Well, the authentication is strong, but the authorisation weak.  Perhaps slightly different issues.
<jono> heya \sh
<persia> pwnguin: After a bit more of a look in the docs, am I correct that g-s-d is receiving PAM_USER_PROMPT properly, but has no way to know when to call pam_authenticate() without a <cr>?
<pwnguin> im not clear on that
<pwnguin> which package is that in?
<pwnguin> gnome scrensaver?
<persia> pwnguin: From what I understand, your package should provide an API that includes pam_get_item() to collect PAM_USER_PROMPT and pam_authenticate, as part of the standard interface for an authentication provider.
<persia> g-s-d would be responsible for calling these functions in the pam modules it is configured to support.
<pwnguin> i wish source code would document what the hell the file IS
<pwnguin> well, i at least got it working. im not happy with the means, but its a start.
<pwnguin> are there any stupid pam modules in universe?
<persia> pwnguin: libpam-ccreds, libpam-chroot, libpam-ck-connector, etc.  (packages.ubuntu.com is your friend)
<pwnguin> none quite as crack-headed as this one though
<persia> Ah.  For the especially crackful, you want things that haven't been included yet :)
<pwnguin> this is unfortunate
<pwnguin> the wiki already includes a "how to build thinkfinger"
<pwnguin> and Debian's packaging it
<pwnguin> i imagine this means it'll come in automatically come sync time
<pwnguin> or does that go into a seperate queue?
<pwnguin> it's generally a good package; for the moment it errs on the side of "buggy" than "insecure"
<persia> pwnguin: If it's accepted in Debian, it gets included during sync time unless it's blacklisted.
<norsetto> morning all
<blueyed> Hi.
<blueyed> dpkg-trigger allows to defer the usage of ldconfig. Is there something similar for depmod?
<huats> morning norsetto
<norsetto> huats: morning
<asisak> morning bad old norsetto
<dholbach> norsetto, asisak: you have a very *special* kind of relationship, haven't you? :)
<asisak> Not at all.
<asisak> (norsetto, .*) is a kind of relationship :D
<asisak> BTW I had to fix tilda from CVS. Is it still possible?
<asisak> I mean because of the freeze(s)
<dholbach> fixes in universe are still getting considered, if they fix things
<norsetto> dholbach, asisak: morning gents
<asisak> dholbach: fixes.* are meant to fix things :)
<dholbach> upload it and ask the release managers to take a look at it
<asisak> bug 144175 renders tilda almost unusable
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144175 in tilda "tilda stays like a gray window" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144175
<asisak> I have to prepare a fix first :(
<asisak> And CVS has quite many changes
<jerry760poip_> hi i got a question not sure if this is were to ask
<jerry760poip_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40245/
<norsetto> dholbach: can I ask your advice abou bug 147188 ? I don't think just adding Debian.NEWS will be enough, will it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147188 in sensors-applet "Sensors-applet report Core 2 Duo temp as A (Ampere)" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147188
<persia> jerry760poip_: It's a good idea to provide more context when asking questions.  For your specific question, I doubt Ubuntu can assist.
<persia> norsetto: Test an upgrade.  If I remember correctly (and I may not), new NEWS entries are available in display while upgrading (especially if apt-listchanges is installed).
<norsetto> persia: ok, thx, will do
<DrKranz> pkern, around for aolserver4 FTBFS?
<norsetto> persia: do you know if what the guy is saying about CC-BY-SA 2.5 is true?
<persia> norsetto: He's requesting that we pull from upstream, rather than pulling from Debian.  The new icons are not DFSG-free, but they appear to be Ubuntu-free at first glance at the license.
<norsetto> persia: I think we should then suggest him to open another bug specific on that, so that the desktop people can comment
<persia> norsetto: That seems like a lot of extra work.  If you want to do something towards license rationalisation, it makes more sense to me for you to just open the bug.  My experience with upstreams is that they have only limited interest in distribution beauracracy, and tend to retreat rather than participating (although they can certainly be attracted by collaboration).
<persia> My personal take on it is that it's too late for gutsy, but as I'm a sensors-applet user, I'll consider pulling from upstream for an early hardy merge, rather than pulling from Debian.
<persia> (not even filing a bug)
<norsetto> persia: well, that seems to be the best really
<norsetto> persia: the only problem is that between me and you, opening the bug would have meant having a record and the concurrence (or not) of seb128's gang
<persia> My philosophy is that bugs get filed by people who either don't understand the issue, don't have time to address it, or don't have permission to fix it.  Anything else just seems like handwaving.
<norsetto> persia: ok, I'll draw seb128 attention to it
<norsetto> persia: it is true that the icons are pretty ugly ....
<persia> norsetto: If sensors-applet reported the Desktop Team as the maintainer, I'd completely agree with you.  Because it reports MOTU, I'd say it's only about 50% important.  This is especially the case because there are no Ubuntu variations.
<norsetto> persia: ah, I thought it was part of the Desktop team heritage
<persia> norsetto: It may be: I haven't actually researched the package history.  If so, then yes, it is appropriate to ping them, and a bug may be the best way to do that.
<norsetto> persia: are u on Gnome/amd64?
<persia> norsetto: Essentially.  My session isn't quite default, and I've a fair bit of legacy hanging around.
<norsetto> persia: would you mind checking it out? I'm on kubuntu
<DktrKranz> persia, some hours ago, pkern informed me aolserver4-nsopenssl FTBFS due to an error in aolserver4 (which I merged). I tested -nsopenssl on my PPA and it's working now, a give back should be enough
<persia> norsetto: Do you mean testing the patch?
<norsetto> persia: or the binary, I just built it
<persia> norsetto: What level of testing do you need.
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  Have you requested a give-back before?
<norsetto> persia: just if the user is alerted of the need to remove/reinstall the applet
<norsetto> persia: all the rest I checked already
<DrKranz> persia, a couple of times, but I wanted you to know about it
<persia> norsetto: OK.  That shouldn't be environment-specific, but I'll give it a shot.  Where's the package (source preferred)?
<persia> DktrKranz: Because I touched it before?  No worries.  I was only chasing the RC list, and really know very little about it.  Thanks for the note.
<norsetto> persia: if you prefer the source than perhaps its better if you use apt-get source and apply the patch
* persia queues that for the near future.
<norsetto> persia: I just installed it and didn't see anything relevant on screen
<persia> norsetto: What did you use to install?
<norsetto> persia: dpkg, thats maybe why?
<persia> norsetto: That'd do it.  For a proper test, you'll need to fake a repo.  From what I understand, NEWS notification is an apt-level function rather than a dpkg-level function.
<ScottK> asisak: We got the checkgmail .desktop thing done while you were sleeping.  Thanks for offering to work on it.
<norsetto> persia: ok, let me check if I can override the dependancies with apt-get then
<norsetto> persia: actually, I wonder if that is implemented in synaptics/adept too
<persia> norsetto: It ought to be.  From what I understand, those are just GUIs for libapt, although I may be mistaken (the newer .desktop-driven easy installer is quite low-level, and that backend may be used in preference).
<DktrKranz> persia, given back and succesfully built (FYI)
<persia> DktrKranz: Cool.  Not that I think they have that many users, but releasing FTBFS software is unfortunate (and all too common).  Thanks a lot.
<DktrKranz> np
<ScottK> persia: Even better its one more openssl0.9.7 rdepends gone so maybe we can get that removed before release....
<StevenK> blueyed: Thanks for playing with virtualbox-ose-modules, but I'd prefer it built on i386 ... :-)
<blueyed> StevenK: it builds here for i386 ?! (are you on amd64?)
<persia> ScottK: I seem to remember being discouraged by vmware-player, which needed some internal changes to use 0.9.8.  Did that get fixed?
<blueyed> StevenK: I've just uploaded it to my ppa to test the build
<ScottK> persia: Someone else pointed out that the version we had if sufficiently anciean (1.x versus 2.x) as to be effectively unuseable and filed a removal bug.
<ScottK> I might not have been so bold myself.
<blueyed> StevenK: you may want to subscribe to bug 144801, too.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144801 in virtualbox-ose "VirtualBox kernel driver not installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144801
<ScottK> There is a newer package in Debian, but we don't have it and it's way to late to get it now.
<StevenK> blueyed: Yes I'm on amd64
<StevenK> blueyed: Okay, I'm curious if PPA can build it
<persia> Is aolserver4-nsimap in process, or does that need a poke as well?
<StevenK> blueyed: If it builds, I'll get a second opinion about your debdiff
<zerwas> Is it still possible to get a bugfix release of software in the universe repository?
<persia> zerwas: For certain definitions of bugfix, yes.
<zerwas> or perhaps anybody can give me a link how this is handled.
<persia> zerwas: Which bug?
<zerwas> persia, until which point is this possible?
<zerwas> persia, we are doing a bugfix release of Gimmie at the moment
<persia> zerwas: Until the buildd admins stop building packages for universe, or the archive admins stop letting them be uploaded.  Not much longer.
<persia> zerwas: Upstream bugfix release?
<zerwas> persia, yes
<persia> zerwas: Those are harder to get in:  You can try following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-1d28045481b8803d4815989e93edc4206f4848c4, but I doubt it'll be approved once we hit RC (likely in the next couple hours).
<zerwas> ok so it won't get into it. But thank you very much for this information
<persia> zerwas: No problems.  If there's a critical patch that really needs to make it, the easiest way is to open a LP bug with the patch, and ask someone in this channel to prep an upload.  The threshold for specific patches for demonstrable bugs in the Ubuntu packages is lower than for new upstreams.
<zerwas> persia, ah ok that sounds good. and good to know how to handle this. the bad thing is that i am getting many bugs every day in bugzilla, coming from Ubuntu users :)
<pkern> Anyone up for SRU verification of firehol? (dapper edgy) Although I don't know what one should check. (List of reserved IPs updated.)
<persia> zerwas: Sorry to hear that.  We try to encourage people to post to LP so we can filter packaging bugs from upstream bugs, and have a first crack at patching the easy ones, but we're not as successful as we might be.
<ScottK> pkern: I can do it for Dapper if you give an exact procedure, but probably not until tomorrow.
<ScottK> pkern: I just filed the openssl097 removal.
<zerwas> persia, that's no problem :-). When we will finish the bugfix-release it will hopefull change. thanks again for your help
<pkern> ScottK: Ok.
<ScottK> zerwas: If you have specific patches that fix serious bugs, it's possible someone here could get them in.
<pkern> ScottK: The patch is so trivial that the only thing which could fail IMHO is the installation. (Although there is NO reason for it.) So simple install testing is sufifcient.
<pkern> Maybe it should be invoked once to check for syntax errors, but even that could possibly be caught by installation.
<zerwas> ScottK, yes i will talk with the other devs about that
<persia> zerwas: Just as an estimate, we'll probably have trouble applying them come Monday or so (although my guess isn't official).
<ScottK> pkern: Bug #?
<zerwas> persia, all right
<CyberMatt> question about REVU
<persia> CyberMatt: Go!
<CyberMatt> what exactly do i upload .dsc, source tarball and changes
<CyberMatt> or just source tarball and changes
<persia> CyberMatt: You'll pass your _source.changes to dput, and it will upload all the files listed therein
<CyberMatt> ah
<persia> CyberMatt: This is so that it can verify the signature on the .changes file, and use the md5sums to verify the other files.
<CyberMatt> i see
<CyberMatt> thanks
<pkern> ScottK: #131946
<persia> pkern: Ubotu isn't that smart :(
<pkern> ScottK: LP: #13946
<pkern> ScottK: LP: #131946
<pkern> Bah \:
<ScottK> Bug #131946
<persia> bug # 131946
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131946 in firehol "Firehol in Ubuntu 6.10 can't work properly due change in reserved ips" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131946
<persia> Right.  That's it.
<mok0> :-)
<pkern> Fun.
<CyberMatt> another question i used http://sponsors.debian.net/viewpkg.php?id=381  as the base for my own inspircd package is it still ok to upload
<StevenK> blueyed: Any news?
<persia> CyberMatt: As long as your version either A) completely replaces the debian/ directory, or B) 1) has a higher version number and 2) preserves the previous changelog.
<CyberMatt> or does that Darren Blader have some kind of lock
<blueyed> StevenK: does not seem to have been built yet: https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive
<persia> CyberMatt: He likely has copyright on the previous debian/.  I'm sure it's licensed broadly, but it's best to keep a record of previous work.
<StevenK> blueyed: Fairy nuff
<CyberMatt> ii do have a higher version the 1.1.8 was a bit buggy had a security issue as I remember
<ScottK> pkern: Doesn't seem to be on my mirror yet.  Ping tomorrow if I don't comment in the bug in the meantime.
<CyberMatt> so I spent like 4 hours bringing up to speed
<CyberMatt> 1.1.8 was a bad bad dream
<persia> CyberMatt: In that case, it's easier to preserve the previous changelog & copyright notices, just treating your packaging as part of collaborative maintenance.  If the packaging is DFSG-free (and it should be), everything would be good.
<CyberMatt> ok then I will make sure I have all that and upload
<CyberMatt> could someone be good enough to resync the Revu keyring
<persia> CyberMatt: For extra points, I'd suggest sending your patches back to Darren once you've gotten reviewed.  It's best when Debian has a similar package.
<CyberMatt> I will
<ScottK> CyberMatt: Is your package aimed at Hardy or Gutsy
<CyberMatt> is it too late to get in to gutsy
<pkern> ScottK: When's tomorrow for you? (UTC)
<ScottK> CyberMatt: Unless you are adding just security/serious bug fixes yes.
<ScottK> pkern: 1300
<pkern> ScottK: Uh. So I should ask ya in an hour? ;)
<CyberMatt> then Hardy
<ScottK> pkern: Tomorrow, yes.
<pkern> :-P
<ScottK> i.e. 25 hours from now.
<pkern> Wouldn't that be the day after tomorrow then? ;)
<Ash-Fox> How does one sign packages after they have been built? (Since I build everything on a server, I'd rather not shove my GPG key there for obvious reasons)
<ScottK> CyberMatt: Would you consider trying to work with the Debian maintainer to get your update into Debian?
<persia> Ash-Fox: debsign
<pkern> Ash-Fox: debrsign
* ScottK got about 3 hours sleep last night.  Math is beyond me.
<Ash-Fox> Thanks
<ScottK> Off for a nap.
<persia> r?  Does that do nifty remote signing?
<CyberMatt> yed i will E-mail him
<pkern> persia: Yep. Via SSH.
<pkern> persia: Copies dsc and changes over, signs them, fetchs them back.
<persia> Extra nifty.  Attached, or detached?
<pkern> (And removes them.)
<CyberMatt> he saved me two days of work
<pkern> persia: Don't know what that means. :-P
<pkern> persia: man debrsign
<CyberMatt> so definitly
<persia> pkern: From your previous line, attached.  Detached is the .asc files that go next to the signed files, as opposed to the inline signatures.
<pkern> persia: Thought that, but I did not know what sense attached signatures should make.
<persia> pkern: attached is probably not the right word.
<CyberMatt> is there a difference in how i upload for Hardy forgive me first package non checkinstall that actually  works
<pkern> Hm... object subject verb. That sounds wrong.
<persia> CyberMatt: Be sure to use "hardy" instead of "gutsy" as the target distribution in the last changelog entry.
<CyberMatt> ok
<persia> pkern: Depends on context.  I believe "Him I struck" is correct, although it may be supposed to be "He I struck" (this gets into deep grammar)
<pkern> "He I struck" sounds wrong to me. o_O
<CyberMatt> man this is exciting my first contribution to an open source project
<dholbach> norsetto: what about Debian.NEWS?
<dholbach> urg... he's gone
<persia> pkern: It's used rarely.  "That's she" is technically correct, whereas "That's him" is wrong.  Something about nominatives and predicate structures (It's been a while since I was actually studying English).
<dholbach> congratulations CyberMatt :-)
<norsetto> I just saw a message while quitting?
<persia> norsetto: My apologies.  I seem to be having difficulties with my local repository.  I'll comment with my experiences to the bug.
<pkern> 
<Ash-Fox> Grm, this is a problem.. I can't seem to specify a port for ssh in debrsign and the manual doesn't have any information on this.
<norsetto> persia: ok, I'm just rebuilding anyhow, since I had to make few changes, and intend to check it with Gnome after lunch (I've got a partition with it).
<persia> Ash-Fox: Configure your ports in ~/.ssh/config
<persia> norsetto: OK.  I don't think it's a GNOME thing: rather about whether apt-listchanges is installed, but I'm not entirely sure.
<norsetto> persia: now, I think it was simply that it was named debian/NEWS instead of debian/NEWS.Debian
<persia> norsetto: That would do it.
<Ash-Fox> persia, thanks.
<norsetto> persia: ok, now I'm going to have that bloody lunch, and will check the new build after. this should be ok .. l8r
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong tab...
<persia> Ash-Fox: You probably want to configure all your common hosts there: it saves lots of typing ssh options.
<CyberMatt> oops Blader goofed up on the copyright
<CyberMatt> ill fix that file
<persia> Hah!  Aptitude fails to URL-encode URLs with interesting characters, and breaks compliant webservers when revision numbers include "+"!
<zul_> ScottK: if that dependency is fixed for nswrapper then im ok with it
* Hobbsee issues all $work customers who wish to shop after closing times a GTTFO notice.  These are *not* subtle.  This is intentional!  Please DIAF.
<Hobbsee> how's that for good acronym use?
<persia> Hobbsee: GTTFO?  GTFO?
<Hobbsee> persia: either.  the first actually refers to an awesome livejournal post.
<Hobbsee> but essentially has the same meaning
<soren> http://www.google.dk/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=gttfo+livejournal  -> ENOENT
* Hobbsee is looking for the reference.  livejournal is a royal pain to search
<StevenK> s/ to search//
<Hobbsee> soren: http://community.livejournal.com/metaquotes/5833841.html
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<persia> Thee!
<Hobbsee> read the entire thing.  it seriously rocks :D
* persia wishes to meet Bubba, the Minion of Righteousness
<CyberMatt> need help in this copyright file the debian maintainer has this line
<CyberMatt> The Debian packaging is (C) 2007, Darren Blader <dmbtech@gmail.com> and
<CyberMatt> is licensed under the GPL, see above.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: haha classic
<imbrandon> CyberMatt: whats the problem?
<persia> CyberMatt: I'd recommend leaving that, and assigning Darren copyright for your packaging (with your name in the changelog indicating you did it).  That's usual practice.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yup :D
<persia> More specifically, by not changing the file, you automatically assign copyright, so it's neither extra thought or extra work.
<persia> s/or/nor/
<CyberMatt> ok should i add a line saying i assign all copyright to him
<imbrandon> wow upgrading a 200mhz box to gutsy is painfull
<persia> CyberMatt: You don't need to do that.  By publishing it with that copyright entry, you announce the assignment.
<imbrandon> CyberMatt: no, as persia said , do nothing and it automticly is
<CyberMatt> ok
<persia> (the previous comment is copyright, 2007 Santa Claus)
<soren> imbrandon: When I did that, it took me most of a working day. What was with ubuntu-desktop installed and all that, though.
<imbrandon> this is with xfce4, still rough though
<blueyed> Riddell: kde-hal-device-manager FTBFS for Gutsy. Is it supposed to be in Gutsy? Is 0.3 the most recent version?
<imbrandon> i really need to get a better system but $$ sucks right now ;)
<Riddell> blueyed: yes, yes
<blueyed> Riddell: see http://people.debian.org/~lucas/logs/2007/08/28/kde-hal-device-manager_0.3-0ubuntu2_gutsy32.buildlog
<blueyed> pbuilder works..
<blueyed> Is there a way to better simulate the ubuntu build system?
<persia> blueyed: set up wanna-build, and make it feed sbuild.
<Riddell> blueyed: it may need a build-dep on python-qt-dev
<blueyed> Riddell: either python-qt3 or python-qt4-dev I think (according to apt-file search pyqtconfig)
<blueyed> persia: according to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto ?
<persia> blueyed: That's a good start (use the script), but it only does the sbuild side.  Auto-feeding from wanna-build can help with multiple-architecture builds (if you have the hardware).  You also want to install extra packages in the chroot like pkg-create-dbgsym and pkgbinarymangler (I don't know the complete list).
<CyberMatt> iits in revu
<CyberMatt> it takes like 5mins to show right
<persia> CyberMatt: The incoming processor runs every 5 minutes, so the worst-case should be about 6 minutes (usually it's around 3).
<persia> Also, we're not really in a big REVU cycle at this point in the release cycle (next REVU day is to be decided 19th October), so it might be a bit before you get feedback.
<Riddell> StevenK: ping
<Riddell> you packaged libtinymail?
<StevenK> Right
<Riddell> StevenK: debian/copyright says GPL, but most of the code and the COPYING files in LGPL
<StevenK> Crap.
<StevenK> Riddell: REJECT it, and I'll look at tomorrow morning.
<Riddell> StevenK: rejected
<StevenK> Riddell: Thanks.
<Riddell> StevenK: you should tell upstream to include a copy of the GPL
<Riddell> and change debian/copyright to say LGPL with some files under tests/ and libtinymail-test/ GPL
<StevenK> Riddell: Right. libtinymail is due to -mobile stuff, so I'll fiddle and re-upload tomorrow morning.
<joejaxx> persia: you said that the debian menu was updating on your machine (ubuntu)?
<persia> joejaxx: I thought it was.  I'll test a package now...
<joejaxx> what version of ubuntu {is,was} it?
<persia> joejaxx: About an hour ago
<CyberMatt> my revu package is not showing up
<persia> joejaxx: Interesting.  Do you have python-wxtools installed?
<joejaxx> let me see
<persia> CyberMatt: Are you in the keyring?  Did you sign the package?
<CyberMatt> yes
<CyberMatt> oh wait
<Hobbsee> did you upload a source.changes or an .i386.changes?
<joejaxx> persia: no i do not
<CyberMatt> gpg: Signature made Thu 11 Oct 2007 09:16:39 AM EDT using DSA key ID 469C7BCD
<CyberMatt> gpg: Good signature from "Matt Arnold <mattarnold5@gmail.com>"
<CyberMatt> Good signature on /home/matt/debian/inspircd_1.1.13-1ubuntu6.dsc.
<CyberMatt> Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
<CyberMatt> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
<CyberMatt> rejected by the upload queue management software.
<CyberMatt> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<CyberMatt>   inspircd_1.1.13-1ubuntu6.dsc: done.
<CyberMatt>   inspircd_1.1.13.orig.tar.gz: done.
<CyberMatt>   inspircd_1.1.13-1ubuntu6.diff.gz: done.
<CyberMatt>   inspircd_1.1.13-1ubuntu6_source.changes: done.
<CyberMatt> Successfully uploaded packages.
<joejaxx> CyberMatt: please use pastebin :D
<CyberMatt> Not running dinstall.
<persia> !pastebin | CyberMatt
<ubotu> CyberMatt: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<CyberMatt> oh i'm sorry
<persia> joejaxx: OK.  I just noticed a syntax error in the python-wxtools menu file, which might have been the problem.
<Hobbsee> is Nicolas Spalinger here?
<joejaxx> persia: is that the one you just tried to install?
<Hobbsee> it appears not
<persia> joejaxx: No.  I'm playing with sgt-puzzles.  It generates heaps of menu items, and doesn't have any .desktop files, which seems a good way to contain the test.
<Hobbsee> he wins hte award for the week about not reading the documentation.
<Hobbsee> x2.
<joejaxx> persia: ah
<Hobbsee> er, x3.
<CyberMatt> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40259/
<persia> CyberMatt: That looks normal.  When did you join ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<Hobbsee> anyone know anything about wine breakage?
<Hobbsee> like uploading wine to revu or something?
<Hobbsee> it's incomplete
<CyberMatt> yesterday 10pm
<persia> Hobbsee: I think there was list traffic about it, and someone handled it locally.
<CyberMatt> EDT
<persia> CyberMatt: What time is it now?
<Ash-Fox> Hm, interesting - despite signing the .dsc and .changes files - I find my tiny repository still shoots out this message in apt-get "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!" - I'm guessing the repository Packages.gz file needs to be signed in some way?
<Hobbsee> persia: likely hasnt been resynced yet.
<CyberMatt> 9:50AM
<persia> Ash-Fox: You need to import the keys into the apt-keyring (I think).
<Hobbsee> Ash-Fox: probably because apt-get is downloading binaries, not sources.
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  Could you resync when you have a chance?
<persia> CyberMatt: It's not been long enough.  Wait for the next sync.
<persia> Hobbsee: Good point.  Ash-Fox: Does your local repository contain the signature files?
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, it's a keyring problem.  resyncing.
<imbrandon> Ash-Fox: not packages, your releases file iirc , but yea the repo needs signed not individual packages
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  Also, where is it hosted now?  I'd like to help with admin again for Hardy.
<Hobbsee> persia: revu?  same address as always
<Hobbsee> it's still on sparky at the moment though
<CyberMatt> ok
<Ash-Fox> imbrandon, right - which applications create a releases file? I'll look up how to use them
<CyberMatt> have to call the bank anyway
<persia> imbrandon: When you have some time, would you mind syncing my SSH key to sparky, so I might help with REVU admin?
<imbrandon> Ash-Fox: something similar to ...
<imbrandon> apt-ftparchive release -c dists/feisty/apt.conf dists/feisty/ > dists/feisty/Release
<imbrandon> gpg --sign -ba -o dists/feisty/Release.gpg dists/feisty/Release
<imbrandon> ( thats from my bash script to regin a personal archive )
<imbrandon> persia: sure one sec
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.
<imbrandon> persia: err actualy i dont have access to my own ssh keys on this machine atm, is ajmitch arround ?
<imbrandon> he should be able to also
<StevenK> persia: If you're in -dev, you already do have access
<persia> imbrandon: heh.
* Hobbsee should be able to, but doesnt know how to
<Hobbsee> persia: what account to you use to be able to login to revu?
<persia> StevenK: No.  I'm a special case.  imbrandon and I looked at it about 5 months ago, and didn't understand it, but I didn't actually care then.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: it should have instructions in the MOTD
<imbrandon> on login
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that doesnt come up for sparky anymore.
<Ash-Fox> imbrandon, slight problem. I use 'dpkg-scanpackages', which doesn't seem to create a 'Release' file.
<persia> Hobbsee: I can log in and comment, just not resync or authorise reviewers.
<StevenK> Ash-Fox: apt-ftparchive release <path>
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, but to fix that, i need to know what you use to login to revu with
<mok0> I need some suggestions on how to set up pbuilders so I can easily build both amd64 and i386 packages...
<imbrandon> Ash-Fox: you could always use falcon :)
<persia> Hobbsee: emmet.hikory@gmail.com (hurrah for spam filters)
<imbrandon> mok0: there should be instructions on how to do just that in the pbuilder howto on the wiki
<Hobbsee> persia: Altering emmet.hikory@gmail.com to level admin
<mok0> imbrandon: thx, I will have a look...
<imbrandon> mok0: np, after you read it if you have any specific questions feel free to ask in here
<persia> Hobbsee: What does that do?  Is there a web interface for sync / authorise now?  My issue is with the ssh key sync.
<Hobbsee> persia: ssh revu.tauware.de doesnt give you a nice p/w prompt?
<Hobbsee> sorry, ssh key prompt?
<persia> Hobbsee: Nope.  There's something funny about my key and sparky.  It's not a revu issue.
<imbrandon> persia: ahh i fixed that i thought
<Hobbsee> right.  i wonder how one fixes a key, etc.
<pkern> REVU fun? (:
<Hobbsee> oh, i see.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: it was some funky lf issues in the ~/.ssh/authorized_keys for his user so you would need to edit it as root
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yep
<imbrandon> but i rember fixing it in the script
<imbrandon> that syncs it
<imbrandon> or so i thought
<StevenK> If you edit it as root, make sure the ownership is correct
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> imbrandon: I think you fixed the script, but we never went back and tested it.  No worries - it wasn't important until this week :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: next stupid question, where is persia's home account?
<imbrandon> in /home/<lp-id>
<pkern> bddebian: Mind you, I am German and sleep at night. Well, or later. ;o)
<Hobbsee> hobbsee@sparky:/home$ ls persia*
<Hobbsee> ls: persia*: No such file or directory
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm not *that* dumb :)
<dholbach> norsetto: what about NEWS.Debian?
<dholbach> norsetto: I didn't get your question
<pkern> bddebian: At least I'm not awake at 6AM local time ;)
<bddebian> pkern: :-)  Good, I was thinking maybe I offended you too or so? :)
<imbrandon> hrm lemme see if i can get to a box with my ssh keys on it and look
<CyberMatt> when will the next resybc be or can someone do it now
<persia> imbrandon: No rush.
<persia> CyberMatt: It's underway now.  It takes a couple hours.
<pkern> Cool, can I get an account too? :-P
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: of course, whether this machine has been resynced since persia got MOTU is a very interesting question too.
<pkern> persia: It doesn't.
<Hobbsee> CyberMatt: it's done now
<norsetto> dholbach: Do you think is it enough to have it? Because when I install with apt-get or synaptic I'm not getting any feedback from it.
<persia> Hobbsee: It was at least once, but I think only once.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: it should sync once every 4 hours iirc
<dholbach> norsetto: to have it for what?
<persia> norsetto: Install apt-listchanges to see the NEWS files
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: right.  i thought all the autosync stuff got turned off.
<dholbach> norsetto: I don't think I ever made use of the NEWS.Debian file
<norsetto> dholbach: OK, you missed the rprevious question; its about bug 147188
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147188 in sensors-applet "Sensors-applet report Core 2 Duo temp as A (Ampere)" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147188
<pkern> Hobbsee: How long does the sync take now on feeled average?
<dholbach> norsetto: what do you or Alex want to put into the news file?
<CyberMatt> its says its already uploaded
<dholbach> norsetto: ok, got it
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: do me a favor and cat /etc/crontab and see when it syncs please
<dholbach> norsetto: hrm, why do we apply that patch in the first place?
<CyberMatt> I must sound like an n00b
<norsetto> dholbach: the warning that the applet should be removed and re-installed for the changes to take effect
<pkern> Now that sync cron stuff we had quite often now.
<pkern> And nobody found it. :-P
* pkern ponders to volunteer for some administration work.
<Hobbsee> CyberMatt: yeah, give me a bit, i'm fighting with it.
<dholbach> norsetto: is there no other way but purge & install?
* Hobbsee WILL PREVAIL!!!
<persia> dholbach: It's not a purge/install, it's a "Remove from panel, Add to panel".
<imbrandon> pkern: hehe we actualy have a "team" to admin them but i've been slacking ( pkern its in #ubuntuwire if your interested in the future when things settle )
<dholbach> persia: oh ok
* persia looks forward to the future: it sounds ideal
<norsetto> dholbach: its not purge/install, its just removing from the panel and reinstalling
<CyberMatt> sure ill go get Anope irc services and work on that package for a while
<dholbach> norsetto: right - it's very hard to hack this into the code
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: it might have , but not afaik, i am hoping it dident so it will resync my keys also
<imbrandon> thus asking you to check
<imbrandon> ;)
<norsetto> dholbach: yes, so, is it worth adding it to preinst?
<dholbach> norsetto: what firefox does is print "please restart all running firefoxes, ..." during installation
<norsetto> dholbach: postinst actually
<dholbach> you can't guarantee that people will read it
<StevenK> Firefox also does a notify
<CyberMatt> I like irc stuff and there's not much in the universe
<dholbach> but I guess it's the easiest
<dholbach> way
<norsetto> dholbach: yes, you can, but I think it is better than a NEWS that nobody even know it exists
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> debconf notice would work too
<dholbach> that's more work
<norsetto> dholbach: yeah, ok, I will add a postint with the notice then
<CyberMatt> hence inspircd Anope BOPM
<dholbach> great, norsetto
<persia> joejaxx: I'm now very confused.  If I execute update-menus, the menus get updated.  update-menus is definitely called in the postinst.  The actual menu update seems delayed somehow (by some minutes).  I'm guessing it's that the XDG menu building process for the logged-in user waits for idle time to execute, so that even though the menu files are updated, the user may not see them.
<imbrandon> CyberMatt: you dont have to stick strictly to universe, main bugs are alsways welcome fixes too, you just need diffrent sponsors for uploads ( but there are core-devs in here too, including myself )
<norsetto> dholbach: danke!
<persia> dholbach: Thanks for the debhelper suggestion.  That's much more visible.
<joejaxx> persia: interesting
<Hobbsee> CyberMatt: right, it should appear.
<StevenK> blueyed: I'm guessing it failed
<pkern> imbrandon: I thought there were almost no admins besides siretart?
<pkern> imbrandon: And only sparky left?
<blueyed> StevenK: no, it was missing a dependency (because of the component). I've re-uploaded it as ~ppa1, which is now PendingRemoval. I'll try a re-upload as "3".
<StevenK> blueyed: Way cool
<imbrandon> pkern: there is like 4 admins ( me ajmitch siretart and seveas ) and yea alot of the boxes are gone now, but not perminately
<CyberMatt> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=375
<CyberMatt> cool
<CyberMatt> I didn't mess up
<CyberMatt> :D
<TheMuso> persia: As one who has access to sparky, how can I now help with revu work if its needed?
<TheMuso> Or anybody else? ^^
<persia> TheMuso: You can get a REVU admin to add you to the REVU admin group.  If you do this, you can then run a few special commands, and get access to special areas on-disk.  This allows you to resync the keyring, authorise people to comment (e.g. non-LP-primary email addresses), clean up after broken uploads, troubleshoot upload issues, check for accout statuses, etc.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
* TheMuso should do that at some point.
<pkern> imbrandon: Not sistpoty or so?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm an admin too now, btw
<Hobbsee> at least of this one
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: ahh cool, yea its been a while since i have worried about any of this heh
<persia> CyberMatt: REVU includes some automated package checking tools: look at the linda and lintian links.  Ideally you'll update the package so that these are nearly empty (there are a couple exceptions).  For extra cleanliness, call lintian and linda with the arguments listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<siretart> yes, we added some more people as admins on sparky
<imbrandon> just been back a week or so ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: :)
<siretart> hi imbrandon hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hiya siretart!
<imbrandon> heya siretart
<siretart> check /etc/sudoers
<pkern> siretart: You're on?
<imbrandon> siretart: i'm having Hobbsee redo my key from LP ( trying to update them now )
<siretart> need to leave again, heading home!
<siretart> imbrandon: ok
<siretart> I'lll be back on in a few minutes
<pkern> Ok (:
<imbrandon> cept firefox seems to have died Hobbsee give me a few minutes i seem to be having issues
<Hobbsee> ok
<pkern> Could somebody set me up a REVU account? I could also just wait for siretart, no problem. Just to know who's in charge.
<pkern> Or rather sparky.
<siretart> pkern: shell account on sparky? - sure. please write me an email with what  you have in mind doing on sparky.
<bddebian> Don't do it, he's secretly a Debian plant ;-P
<joejaxx> persia: wait for the short period before it updated was that after package installation or after you did it maually?
<joejaxx> persia: if i do it manually it builds it right then
<persia> joejaxx: Package installation.  For manual, were you running as the local user, or as root?
<joejaxx> root
<joejaxx> as i wanted it system wide
<persia> joejaxx: Well, that's extra confusing then.
<siretart> bddebian: what makes you think I didn't become a Debian plant as well? ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<bddebian> siretart: :)
<StevenK> Yeah, the implant doesn't hurt at all. *twitch* *twitch*
<persia> siretart: One cannot become a plant (although one can be turned...)
<siretart> ;)
<StevenK> persia: Semantics. :-P
<persia> StevenK: The justification for language
<joejaxx> persia: yeah it is
<joejaxx> persia: too bad there is not a simple explanation about it
<persia> joejaxx: Aside from being annoying, what does this break?  I'm not finding an answer, and thinking a workaround might be easier in the time remaining.
<joejaxx> well the fluxbox menu depends on it
<persia> joejaxx: Ah.  Is this new for fluxbox 1.0.0, or was it also true for 1.0.0rc3?
<joejaxx> i believe it was true of rc3 as well
<joejaxx> i would have to do a test though
<asac> pkern: why did you upload a new upstream version of flashplugin-nonfree?
<joejaxx> fluxbox has had a new maintainer since 0.9
<joejaxx> well in debian that is
<persia> joejaxx: No need.  I was just worried that the recent effort to get a release rather than an RC in had broken that.
<Ash-Fox> How do one define the distribution in a apt.conf file? I've been looking in the man file apt.conf(5) and I can't find it.
<joejaxx> persia: oh alright
<asac> pkern: we talked about aa new package revision ... not a full upstream update
<imbrandon> persia: your lp-id is persia correct ?
<persia> Ash-Fox: There's slightly more verbose documentation in the apt-doc package
<persia> imbrandon: Yep.
<joejaxx> persia: i can have update-menus to run through a settings package that i have
<Ash-Fox> persia, thanks.
<joejaxx> persia: but it is kind of pointless if no applications after that will be on the menu
<asac> pkern: please fix flashplugin-nonfree now!
<asac> pkern: you dropped all ubuntu specific changes
<persia> joejaxx: You could, but without understanding the issue, I'm not sure that helps.
<joejaxx> but that does fix the problem of fluxbox coming up without a menu
<asac> pkern: Npp- headers in control
<joejaxx> persia: ^
<persia> joejaxx: Is fluxbox default anywhere?
<asac> pkern: i have to update the plugin db and now flashplugin-nonfree isn't found anymore because of this
<asac> pkern: so please hurry ;)
<joejaxx> persia: default anywhere?
<persia> joejaxx: Part of a default session for something planned to be released.
<joejaxx> ah yes
<asac> pkern: further there is not a single word about the upstream version upgrade in the changelog
<persia> joejaxx: If it's default, I'm tempted to fix it somewhere other than in a separate -settings package.  That seems like a last resort due to weak coupling
<joejaxx> persia: yeah
<joejaxx> it is last resort :P
<joejaxx> i rather fix the larger issue
<persia> joejaxx: I'm getting unreproducible behaviour.  Sometimes the menu files are still there after `dpkg -P sgt-puzzles`, and sometimes they're not.  The same for installation.  If I do nothing for a bit, things become more sane (although the timing varies).
<joejaxx> the reason why there is no menu in fluxbox is because the menu is including a fluxbox men-method generated file which is not generated
<joejaxx> menu-*
<joejaxx> persia: that is interesting
<persia> joejaxx: Is this consistently reproducible?  I'm getting better behaviour the more times I try it, which may be related to file caching (including archive caching).
<persia> joejaxx: Also, try enabling debug in /etc/menu-methods/menu.config.  That may help to determine how/where it's blocking.
<joejaxx> persia: yeap
<joejaxx> it is reproducible
<joejaxx> i just installed four packages that i know have debian menus
<joejaxx> and it is not going through the metu-methods
<joejaxx> menu-methods*
<joejaxx> ok i will try that
<persia> (verbosity=debug)
<pkern> asac: Well do.
<pkern> asac: *Will do
<joejaxx> persia: just says forking to background :P
<joejaxx> i wonder how i can stop it from doing that
<persia> joejaxx: Reading the source, it appears that update-menus forks when first called, and the child waits for the dpkg-lock to clear.  Additional calls are nop events, as update-menus doesn't allow itself to be run twice.  When the dpkg lock clears (and all the menu files should be installed), update-menus processes everything currently installed on the system, and completely rebuilds the menus.  Before processing everything, it attempts to get a sp
<persia> joejaxx: You really don't want it not to fork.  It reads all the menu files every time, so installing more than one package would be a nightmare.
<DktrKranz> pkern, that FTBFS on aolserver4-msopenssl is now solved
<pkern> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<pkern> asac: pm, urgent.
<DktrKranz> np...this time it was just a give back
<persia> joejaxx: Are you ny any chance testing on a fast dual-core or dual-proc machine?  It may be a race condition (which is why it works when run manually: dpkg isn't locking)
<persia> joejaxx: I must be off.  Best of luck.
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks for all your work.  I'll try a test in ~6/7 hours, and again in ~20 (just in case).
<joejaxx> persia: no i mean instantly start after dpkg is done :D
<Hobbsee> persia: i dotn think imbrandon's fixed it, has he?
<persia> joejaxx: It's supposd to start right off when the lock is freed.
<joejaxx> persia: yeah but it is not :\
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  I thought you were attacking it wildly.  I'll ping him later.
<Hobbsee> persia: i odn tknow what will happen if i just add you as a user...
<persia> joejaxx: Right.  The fork is never returning.  Perhaps a race condition.  If verbosity=debug doesn't help, perhaps putting more debug statments in wait_dpkg may help.
<persia> Hobbsee: No worries.  I certainly don't want to break anything.
<pkern> bddebian: What the heck is a Debian plant?
<bddebian> pkern: A spy.  Sent here by Debian to bring down Ubuntu ;-P
<joejaxx> bddebian: lol
<joejaxx> oh a "plant"
<joejaxx> as in placed :P
<joejaxx> ;)
<pkern> As in placed. Now that explains it.
<joejaxx> :)
<pkern> bddebian: ACK then. Obviously.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> heya geser
<hendrixski> If I want to change a dpatch, instead of patching the patch... I try going into dpatch-edit-patch 0#_patchname and then I want to apply what that patch does so that I can change it... what commands should I run?
<hendrixski> 'cause I tried dpatch apply 0#_patchname and it says failed, I tried patch ./ < debian/patches/0#_patchanem.dpatch  etc. etc.  none of that seems to make the changes inside the dpatch-edit-patch base that I need it to make :-(
<hendrixski> any advice?
<norsetto> hendrixski: dpatch-edit-patch should already apply all the changes up to and including the patch you are editing
<hendrixski> norsetto, oh?
<hendrixski> It looked like it was only applying up to the previous patch :-(
<norsetto> hendrixski: it shouldn't, check it out again
<blueyed> StevenK: it has been built finally! See https://edge.launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/+builds?build_text=virtualbox&build_state=all
<hendrixski> hhmm, I say that because the patch is supposed to add a file to a directory, but it doesn't seem to do so :-(
<norsetto> hendrixski: are you running the command at the top of the source tree?
<norsetto> hendrixski: check the messages it gives, it should report what it applied
<hendrixski> norsetto, I think so... it's not the one with the .dsc and .tar.gz  it's the first directory with code
<norsetto> hendrixski: what dirs are in the dir with the .dsc etc.?
<hendrixski> a few actually... I'm tinkering with mythtv, mythplugins, and mythstream... so all their folders, and .gz and all are in the same one... I'm applying it from the mythtv-trunk####/ folder... is that not the top of the source tree? and should the level up from that be clean except for the package itself?
<hendrixski> I'll try it from a level higher :-)
<hendrixski> Nope.. it doesn't work from a level higher :-(
<norsetto> hendrixski: you can also specify the unpacked source directory with the -s option
<norsetto> hendrixski: in any case, can you paste in a pastebin what dpatch reports?
<hendrixski> yes
<hendrixski> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<hendrixski> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40269/
<norsetto> hendrixski: it reports that the patch is applied correctly: applying patch 06_ubuntu_directories to ./ ... ok.
<norsetto> hendrixski: so, whatever it is in there is applied. If its a new file, check the right path, or use find, it must be there
<hendrixski> hhmmm, Ok,,, I'm re-downloading the source...maybe I hozed soemthing before when I did dpatch-edit-patch wrong the last time...
<hendrixski> oh right.  find command :-)
* hendrixski is such a noob
<norsetto> hendrixski: maybe you gave a wrong path or you used it in a chroot, so its in /temp somewhere
<hendrixski> yikes! it's possible that changes made while in the dpatch-edit-patch mode can get lost in /temp?
<dholbach> I'm calling a day! see you guys tomorrow!
<norsetto> dholbach: bye!
<dholbach> bye norsetto
<Hobbsee> bye dholbach!  not going to stay around for the rc?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I need to get something to eat
<Hobbsee> heh
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<dholbach> see you around!
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach
<asisak> bye dholbach
<asisak> Hey Hobbsee
* asisak also has to go now... 
<Hobbsee> hiya
<asisak> (with the hope that norsetto does not ruin the rc)
<bluekuja> take care asisak ;)
<bddebian> Does anyone know why boswars got rejected?
<Hobbsee> !info boswars
<ubotu> Package boswars does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<Hobbsee> !info boswars gutsy
<Hobbsee> did you check ubuntu-archive archives?
<ubotu> Package boswars does not exist in gutsy
<amachu_> bluekuja: hi
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Aye it got rejected out of NEW but how do I find out why?
<jpatrick> right we in FF? No NEW uploads?
<bluekuja> amachu_: heya :)
<amachu_> bluekuja: hey :-)
<bluekuja> amachu_: happy to have you here
<Hobbsee> bddebian: u-a ml
<bddebian> jpatrick: it was uploaded on 8/29
<bluekuja> amachu_: what are you packaging-side references?
<bluekuja> *your
<jpatrick> ah right
<amachu_> bluekuja: happy to have you too..
<amachu_> bluekuja: packaging-side references?
<amachu_> i am unable to get the meaning exactly
<bluekuja> amachu_: I mean have you ever packaged something?
<amachu_> no not yet
<bluekuja> amachu_: have you ever read out some guidelines?
<amachu_> yes
<bluekuja> amachu_: like?
<bddebian> Ah, contained binary dlls
<bddebian> Grr
<amachu_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<amachu_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation
<amachu_> i began with
<amachu_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation
<amachu_> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<bluekuja> amachu_: did you read my section on the packaging guide?
<amachu_> and its in middle...
<bluekuja> amachu_: debian/rules area in fact
<amachu_> started and halted a bit
<amachu_> saw the mail a while back
<amachu_> and pinged you
<Whoopie> albert23: hi, did you find the time to test uswsusp again?
<amachu_> i will catch up with them and get back to you
<bluekuja> amachu_: well done, I think we should start doing a package then
<amachu_> yes
<bluekuja> amachu_: you told me you're ready from a teorical point of view
<bluekuja> so let's move to pratic side
<amachu_> ok
<bluekuja> amachu_: are you interested in a package in particular?
<albert23> Whoopie: yes, I did. It couldn't resume again. The splash did show nicely when it went in hibernate though
<bluekuja> amachu_: something you use often or would like to have included in the archive?
<amachu_> few min..
<amachu_> i have come across few
<Whoopie> albert23: what happened on resume?
<amachu_> let me try recollecting
<albert23> Whoopie: it just rebooted, so I lost my swap again
<amachu_> yes
<amachu_> the scim-tables-additional
<amachu_> few new keyboard tables to be added to that
<amachu_> for indian languages
<albert23> Whoopie: Without uswsusp hibernate and resume work fine
<amachu_> bluekuja: you there
<bluekuja> amachu_: do you have an upstream website for that?
<bluekuja> amachu_: yeah, sorry for the delay
<Whoopie> albert23: that's really strange. do you have any idea why it just rebooted? did you check the initramfs size before and after install?
<Whoopie> albert23: would be interesting if it's the initramfs update which happens during install.
<amachu_> bluekuja: http://www.scim-im.org/
<bluekuja> amachu_: I guess scim is already packaged
<albert23> Whoopie: no, I only checked if the right uuid was in /etc/initramfs/conf.d/resume
<bluekuja> andrea@nightsong:~$ apt-cache madison scim
<bluekuja>       scim | 1.4.7-1ubuntu2 | http://it.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Packages
<bluekuja>       scim | 1.4.7-1ubuntu2 | http://it.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Sources
<Whoopie> albert23: did you edit /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh based on the patch I provided in bug 109151?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109151 in uswsusp "no hibernate with uswsusp installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109151
<bluekuja> amachu_: seems to be already in
<amachu_> its scim-tables-additional
<Whoopie> albert23: because it looks to me, you didn't. /etc/initramfs/conf.d/resume is uninteresting for uswsusp
<amachu_> with few modifications
<bluekuja> amachu_: cant find it inside that website
<albert23> Whoopie: uswsusp does change that resume file in the config script
<bluekuja> amachu_: another link?
<bluekuja> maybe direct would be better
<amachu_> bluekuja: this is the debian equivalent http://packages.debian.org/scim-tables-additional
<bluekuja> amachu_: well a sync would be ok then
<Whoopie> albert23: could you pastebin your /etc/uswsusp.conf ?
<albert23> Whoopie: I patched the source files with the debdiff
<bluekuja> if debian got it already
<bluekuja> amachu_: leaving for dinner, bbl (30 mins)
<albert23> Whoopie: one minute, I must install it again
<amachu_> bluekuja: ok
<Whoopie> albert23: and please apply http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9582145/acpi-support_uswsusp.patch
<amachu_> bluekuja: dinner?
<amachu_> which geography are you from?
<gnomefreak> when a package is archived in revu without comments what does that mean?
<hendrixski> norsetto, hey..  just wanted to say thanks... turns out that my patch was going into the wrong directory,  if you hadn't recommended find then I wouldn't have found that out.  :-) thanks
<norsetto> hendrixski: hey, no problem, glad I could help
<norsetto> amachu: bluekuja is from North Italy, they eat at indecent times .....
<amachu> norsetto: dinner?
<norsetto> amachu: yes
<amachu> norsetto: ok
<albert23> Whoopie: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40279/
<Whoopie> albert23: and you applied the acpi-support patch?
<albert23> Whoopie: yes, I just did
<albert23> Whoopie: should I now hibernate again?
<Whoopie> albert23: wait a sec
<gnomefreak> any motus feel  like acking and pushing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=360 its been done since sept 20th or so i updated changelog for the day i built it for the 2nd time since i had to reinstall. the person that i expected to upload it isnt maybe busy i dont know
<Whoopie> albert23: please change the "resume device" to the /dev/sdaXX instead of the UUID. Then "sudo update-initramfs -k 2.6.22-14-generic -c"
<Whoopie> albert23: and then try hibernating.
<albert23> Whoopie: in uswsusp.conf?
<Whoopie> albert23: yes
<pkern> gnomefreak: Rationale for deactivation of debian/patches/00list/82_prefs_ubuntu?
<hendrixski> ah crap... when I run debuild -S where does it dump the binary again? /var/something or other?
<Hobbsee> parent directory?
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, hhmm, it's not there...
<hendrixski> oh, I haven't set up my GPG on this computer yet :-(
<deitarion> I'm a Gentoo-using application developer who wants to make source packages and feed them to my Launchpad PPA for building. Will I need any tools other than the Gentoo packages equivalent to build-essential, dpkg, gnupg, diff, and patch? I asked in #ubuntu and was directed here.
<pkern> You should install Debian devscripts and stuff.
<albert23> Whoopie: hanging now, with the progress bar at 100%
<Whoopie> albert23: one step forward :) same was here, but I thought, it was my laptop. :(
<albert23> Whoopie: I think the splash changed to a lower resolution then I normally have?
<Whoopie> albert23: it uses /etc/usplash.conf as source for the resolution
<albert23> Whoopie: so now just a hard reboot? Network is also still down
<Whoopie> albert23: yes, sorry
<albert23> Whoopie: no problem, it can't be as bad as what mkswap did yesterday
<Whoopie> albert23: great, thanks for your help. We need to find out why your /etc/uswsusp.conf had UUID and why it hangs at 100%
<deitarion> pkern: Are there any more specific names I can take to the people in #gentoo as examples? I suspect that I need to write a new ebuild for them, but I'd like to be sure.
<albert23> Whoopie: no problem
<bluekuja> amachu: back
<amachu> bluekuja: hey
<amachu> bluekuja: i was asking which geography are you from
<amachu> :-)
<bluekuja> amachu: I'm italian
<amachu> fine
<bluekuja> amachu: north italy, near venice
<pkern> deitarion: I'm not on Gentoo anymore and I suspect packages.g.o is still down? ;)
<amachu> ok..
<pkern> deitarion: Is there a replacement available?
<amachu> am from chennai
<amachu> india
<bluekuja> amachu: cool, what timezone?
<amachu> bluekuja: its UTC + 5:30
<bluekuja> oh :D
<deitarion> pkern: I'm using the eix command with the "including overlays not active on this machine" extension, so I wouldn't know. A partial list of the more important tools I need should be enough though.
<bluekuja> amachu: anyway, scim-tables-additional is inside ubuntu as well
<bluekuja> amachu: use madison to to find out
<bluekuja> amachu: usage apt-cache madison packagename
<bluekuja> and you'll get it
<pkern> devscripts (as found on ftp.d.o), dpkg-dev (which is included with dpkg), debhelper (as found on ftp.d.o) come to mind.
<amachu> ok
<hendrixski> what's madison?
<Whoopie> albert23: <Mithrandir> Whoopie: hanging on 100% is known, alt-sysrq-k fixes it.
<Whoopie> albert23: could you try it? I'm also doing it here.
<bluekuja> amachu: first step
* hendrixski tried it... ooh, that's handy
<bluekuja> amachu: find a source to package
<amachu> ok
<bluekuja> amachu: something you think it's useful to have packaged
<bluekuja> amachu: something you love
<amachu> and that should not be in ubuntu now
<bluekuja> amachu: something that can improve ubuntu
<amachu> bluekuja: ok
<albert23> Whoopie: ok, will try
<bluekuja> amachu: yep
<amachu> yes
<amachu> i will
<deitarion> pkern: OK. One other question: I've been considering just setting up an Ubuntu chroot on my system and I was wondering how much space that would probably take and how to get a nice minimal compilation-oriented setup.
<bluekuja> amachu: so check if the package is already in, both using madison or Ubuntu/Debian PTS
<Whoopie> albert23: it worked here.
<amachu> madison is ok
<geser> hendrixski: there is also rmadison (remote madison) in devscripts (gutsy) with which you can also check other releases and also Debian
<amachu> Ubuntu/Debian PTS?
<bluekuja> amachu: packaging tracking system
<bluekuja> amachu: so packages.u.c
<bluekuja> or packages.d.o
<amachu> ok
<geser> pts is pacakges.qa.d.o
<geser> http://packages.qa.debian.org
<pkern> deitarion: 1G? I expect it to grow as you install dev packages. 256M minimal I guess.
<bluekuja> geser: yeah but generally packages.d.o
<amachu> bluekuja: then
<pkern> deitarion: Install debootstrap, that's in Gentoo.
<amachu> i have make a ubuntu package right?
<bluekuja> amachu: then you should apply what you've learnt on all the guides you told me before
<pkern> deitarion: Or maybe fetch it from archive.ubuntu.com, because gutsy scripts are included.
<bluekuja> amachu: and if you find something not clear, you ask me
<deitarion> pkern: Sounds like I'll just do that then. My root drive (as opposed to my media drive) has around 340GiB free at the moment.
<bluekuja> amachu: we will try to improve the package step by step
<amachu> yes
<amachu> sure
<bluekuja> amachu: but It would be nice to see what you can/cant do atm
<albert23> Whoopie: no luck here, still hanging
<amachu> i will find a source then
<amachu> :-)
<amachu> atm?
<bluekuja> amachu: at the moment
<bluekuja> :)
<Whoopie> albert23: really? press the sequence once more.
<bluekuja> amachu: sorry for using this abbreviations
<amachu> :-)
<amachu> no problems
<bluekuja> *these
<bluekuja> amachu: I'm here for anything, so feel free to ping me
<amachu> yes
<albert23> Whoopie: I need to use fn to get sysrq, but  that also makes the k into a 2. Could that be the problem?
<amachu> thank you
<bluekuja> amachu: I'm your mentor now, so I'm glad to help you
<Whoopie> albert23: here, it's "shift+print+alt+k"
<bluekuja> amachu: and I'll work with until I see your application sent to the MC
<bluekuja> amachu: MC = MOTU Council
<bluekuja> *you
<amachu> ok
<amachu> :-)
<bluekuja> amachu: good search for now
<bluekuja> :)
<amachu> doing that
<albert23> Whoopie: doesn't work either.
<Whoopie> albert23: sh*
<Whoopie> albert23: tested again. works here. I think, you should check if the sequence is correctly recognized.
<albert23> Whoopie: tried another time, no luck again
<amachu> bluekuja: icewesel??
<bluekuja> amachu: already in debian
<amachu> ok
<amachu> bluekuja: there is a this http://www.nsc.res.in/~elab/phoenix/software/index.html
<amachu> which we demonstrated recently
<amachu> i will check it out with a friend of mine
<amachu> that would also help ubuntu pushing into few colleges
<amachu> here
<bluekuja> amachu: it's just one file?
<bluekuja> http://www.nsc.res.in/~elab/phoenix/applications/croplus.py
<amachu> i need to check it out
<amachu> will get back to you on that
<Whoopie> albert23: sorry, I did what I could. But now, someone with more knowledge about usplash has to look into it.
<bluekuja> amachu: perfect :)
<bluekuja> amachu: I would suggest you to start with an easy package
<bluekuja> amachu: python uses a different policy
<bluekuja> amachu: and I want you to learn basic packaging before moving to python/library packaging
<amachu> oh.. ok
<albert23> Whoopie: Just tried in xkeycaps. The FN key indeed turns the K into a 2
<Whoopie> albert23: but why do you need Fn for sysrq? never saw such a keyboard layout.
<albert23> Whoopie: it's a laptop. So FN+K is keypad 2
<albert23> But xkeycap learned me how to do it :-)
<sladen> Whoopie: what are you running, xubuntu, edubuntu, kubuntu, gobuntu, ubuntu ?
<sladen> Whoopie: do you see the problem
<sladen> Whoopie: assuming you're talking about off-centerness
<amachu> bluekuja: fontforge is there, but fontutils?
<amachu> will that help..
<bluekuja> amachu: fontutils for fontforge?
<bluekuja> upstream link?
<amachu> http://directory.fsf.org/project/fontutils/
<amachu> bluekuja: this should be useful, http://directory.fsf.org/project/html2pdf/
<amachu> ?
<bluekuja> amachu: html2pdf is not in debian or ubuntu? checked already?
<bluekuja> amachu: if not, is there an ITP around inside debian BTS?
<amachu> i checked once
<amachu> let me confirm in few min
<amachu> hey.. html2ps is there
<amachu> but bot html2pdf
<amachu> * not
<geser> doko: have you an idea how to solve bug #145561? it looks like gpc-4.1 computes the gcc-4.1 dependency based on the own package version
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145561 in gpc-4.1 "[UNMETDEPS]  gpc-4.1 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145561
<Whoopie> sladen: I was talking about uswsusp + usplash. I re-added usplash support to it. see bug 109151
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 109151 in uswsusp "no hibernate with uswsusp installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/109151
<albert23> Whoopie: alt+sysrq+k works for me to get past 100%, but it starts a new session, not the old one
<homanj> when is the MOTU Q and A
<homanj> some time tomorrow right?
<jpatrick> 17th
* mdomsch files 151664, subscribes motu-uvf
<mdomsch> #151664
<geser> homanj: Friday, October 12th, at 14:30 UTC in #ubuntu-classroom
<geser> bug #151664
<ubotu> Bug 151664 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/151664 is private
<mdomsch> doh
<homanj> geser: thanks. that's what i thought.
<mdomsch> fixed
<mdomsch> bug #151664
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151664 in dell "DKMS 2.0.17.4 uninstalls wrong file" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151664
* pochu looks for a CORE-DEV :-) Any volunteers? Please :-)
<geser> pochu: there aren't many core-devs in #ubuntu-motu. try #ubuntu-devel
<pochu> geser: already tried :(
* pochu tries -desktop
<geser> pochu: I guess they are all busy with the rc
<pochu> geser: if you were core... :)
<norsetto> pochu: wait few weeks ....
<geser> norsetto: what is in a few weeks?
<tonyyarusso> Thanksgiving!
<tonyyarusso> Or, you know, UDS.
<norsetto> geser: oh, you mean you have not yet applied? What you waiting for!?
<geser> no, as I don't work much on packages in main
* calc reads scrollback
<calc> ah pochu needs a core-dev
<calc> pochu: whats up?
<pochu> calc: I need a sponsor for liferea: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/liferea_1.4.4-0ubuntu2.dsc :)
<pochu> calc: slangasek approved it (in #ubuntu-devel).
<Kmos> pochu: why not release 1.4.5 ?
<calc> pochu: ok i'll double check with slangasek and then upload it for you
<pochu> calc: great, thanks a lot.
<pochu> Kmos: because we are *too* close to release, and then we only take bug fixes we care about.
<Kmos> pochu: ok
<Kmos> pochu:
<Kmos> Version 1.4.5b (Stable)
<Kmos>         * Fixing wrong deallocation that prevents Liferea
<Kmos>           from working with sqlite 3.5.x (SF #1811055).
<Kmos> :)
<pochu> Kmos: we don't have 3.5.x ;)
<Kmos> pochu: so don't need it :)
<pkern> Does anyone know by chance how to parse an in-memory string with librdf?
<pkern> (Python that is.)
<pkern> Ups... the c.perform() got thrashed. Ignore me. ;)
<calc> pochu: uploaded
<calc>   liferea_1.4.4-0ubuntu2_source.changes: done.
* pochu hugs calc :)
<pkern> The LP rdf sucks?
<hendrixski> would anyone recommend a better chroot manual than this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-chroot.html  ??
<hendrixski> I was hoping to try out schroot, but can't find anything well written about it
<hendrixski> and... also multiple chroots, but there's nothing in there about how to do that.  If you know of one, that does I'd be happy to read it. :-)
<bddebian> Later folks
<pochu> see you bddebian
<pkern> siretart: LP RDF sucks. No foaf:nick in team RDF.
<norsetto> hendrixski: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<hendrixski> norsetto, nice.
<norsetto> hendrixski: it was pretty helpful for me
<hendrixski> hhmm, it has both dchroot and schroot instruction on there
<imbrandon> pkern: i asked for that feature and even filed a bug about it long long ago
<norsetto> hendrixski: forget dchroot
<hendrixski> norsetto, did you do the stuff in  the "Setting up a dchroot (non-root) environment" as well?
<norsetto> hendrixski: no, I just setup an lpia chroot
<hendrixski> ah,
<imbrandon> pkern: when i was working on the ssh key sync script
<hendrixski> coolness
<pkern> imbrandon: Someone should beat them.
<pkern> imbrandon: Same here.
<hendrixski> thanks again... that's twice in one day.
<imbrandon> pkern: ssh sync script?
<imbrandon> *key
<pkern> imbrandon: User syncing first, but in the end, yes.
<norsetto> hendrixski: he, in my home country we say: there is no two without three .....
<imbrandon> pkern: we did this many months ago and released it gpl2 ( we as in me and ajmitch  and fujitsu ) if you want i'll dig up a copy
<pkern> norsetto: What's that in your native language?
<imbrandon> all you need to do is change the team
<hendrixski> norsetto, careful, I may just have a third thing I'll ask you today :-p
<norsetto> pkern: music :-)
<pkern> imbrandon: Language?
<Simon80> can someone please please please fix bug 123185 before gutsy comes out? it's just a merge of bochsbios from debian that is needed
<imbrandon> python
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123185 in bochs "bochsbios too old for Windows XP with qemu" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123185
<pkern> imbrandon: Well the concept is to use nss bdb.
<imbrandon> nss bdb ?
<pkern> imbrandon: libnss-db
* hendrixski 's native language is Polish... like that makes a difference on here :-/
<pkern> imbrandon: For passwd/shadow/groups.
<norsetto> hendrixski: not today, I'm off to bed in 5 min
<pkern> norsetto: No, the phrase.
<pkern> Non c' duo...
<norsetto> pker: non c' due senza tre ?
<pkern> senze tre?
<pkern> Fun.
<norsetto> pkern: eh, almost perfect :-)
<pkern> *senza of course
<imbrandon> pkern: ahh well this may help you with some of the screen scraping anyhow
<pkern> norsetto: Got rid of Italian after three years of studying it. ;)
<imbrandon> one sec
<norsetto> pkern: too bad, you must have been a promising student
<pkern> norsetto: Nope. It was the language I was worst in.
<pkern> ;)
<pkern> Mainly lack of study, though.
<pkern> French and English left. :-P
<Simon80> anyone hear my nagging?
<Simon80> windows XP in qemu is broken on gutsy and all it takes is a simple merge to fix it
<Simon80> all I want is for one developer to get that done, because I can't
<pkern> "a simple merge"?
<imbrandon> pkern: http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/lpusers.py.txt
<Simon80> a merge of bochbios from debian with no changes
<hendrixski> Simon80, are you sure it's only broken in qemu?  I heard it was broken on its own
<pkern> Now merge's aren't "simple". Just applying patches is.
<mdomsch> ScottK, re bug 151664, as I'm upstream for the package, I just fixed it in upstream and dropped a new upstream version
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151664 in dell "DKMS 2.0.17.4 uninstalls wrong file" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151664
<pkern> imbrandon: Screen scraping is baaaad. Thanks, though.
<Simon80> it's not even a merge, actually, it's a sync
<Simon80> I didn't think about it :(
<broonie> g
<imbrandon> pkern: that was the LP devs only sugestion untill they fixed it
<mdomsch> I could apply the same patch to the older version with a new 0ubuntu2 release I suppose
<sistpoty> hi folks
<imbrandon> pkern: that was over 6 months ago
<imbrandon> heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi imbrandon
<pkern> Now I slowly get to understand ScottK on how LP could disappoint oneself.
<imbrandon> ;)
<pkern> It's one point not to provide a XMLRPC/SOAP API, but not to act on such simple requests.
<Simon80> and hendrixski: with stock gutsy, qemu hangs on boot of windows XP.  After installing a slightly newer version of bochsbios from debian, things work the way they do in feisty, which is fine
<sistpoty> just a stupid question: what do I need to do to get an upload shoved through the queue? There is no "distro manager" team in LP, as the mail that I got states :P *g*
<persia> sistpoty: release-manager team?
<pkern> sistpoty: Wait.
<sistpoty> persia: no, it said "This upload awaits approval by a distro manager" ;)
<Simon80> from bochbios 2.3-2 to 2.3+20070705-2, that's all that needs to be synced to fix this bug
<pkern> sistpoty: Which are the archive admins in fact.
<imbrandon> sistpoty: i would bug the RM
<Simon80> hence my nagging and whining in here
<hendrixski> Simon80, i was just trying to lighten the mood with a joke
<persia> sistpoty: I'm fairly sure that's https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release
<Simon80> ah :(
<sistpoty> ok, maybe I'm lucky (but I don't think though, due to the release being just out *g*)
<Simon80> lol
<pkern> sistpoty: If it needs fasttracking maybe ask slangasek.
<pkern> sistpoty: Otherwise I'd guess that it will be processed if it's universe.
<sistpoty> well, it doesn't really need fast tracking, but I wouldn't want to get it lost in a queue until release though ;)
<pkern> sistpoty: All my uploads were processed within some hours.
<pkern> ScottK: ping (firehol)
<sistpoty> persia: not too sure, I thought Hobbsee couldn't shove things through the queue
<slangasek> don't worry, that queue will be empty before release, one way or another ;)
<sistpoty> slangasek: cool, thanks! then I'll just go to bed and worry no longer :)
<slangasek> (which package, OOI?)
<sistpoty> slangasek: haskell-haskell-src
<slangasek> ok
<sistpoty> thx!
<slangasek> bit of a wait then, lots of packages ahead in the queue :)
<sistpoty> hehe, in a week is still acceptable for me :P
<imbrandon> sistpoty: too much debian in your blood ;)
<sistpoty> imbrandon: haha, maybe just too much work and too few spare time to actually *do* an upload
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i know i've had a new apt-mirror sitting on my hdd for a week and not uploaded it
<imbrandon> lol
<persia> Simon80: regarding bochs: whining and nagging here won't help.  Currently, there doesn't appear to be a plan to pull the new bochs.  The process is to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-1d28045481b8803d4815989e93edc4206f4848c4 to request a newer version (basically a lot of administrative work).  This can then be reviewed for inclusion.  Personally, I suspect that it will take a persuasive arguments to demonstrate that an C
<sistpoty> well, I guess this was upload #3 or s.th. for the entire gutsy cycle from me *g*
<sistpoty> only writing mails asking questions for MC otherwise *g*
<sistpoty> ok, gotta go to bed now, otherwise I'll be late at work tomorrow
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<imbrandon> gnight
<norsetto> gnight imbrandon, gnight all
<hendrixski> hhhmmm, sooo schroot can only create chroots using the scripts it has?  'cause it's not letting me create a gutsy schroot :-(
<persia> hendrixski: Can you make a gutsy chroot with debootstrap?
<imbrandon> pkern: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/100079
<slangasek> schroot doesn't normally create the chroots afaik
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 100079 in launchpad "more rdf team info" [Undecided,New] 
<imbrandon> found the bug i mentioned about the faof
<hendrixski> persia, I thought it does
<persia> slangasek: There's a schroot setup script from Kees on the wiki page about schroot that is being used for that.
<keescook> it's part of the ubuntu-dev-tools (mk-sbuild-lv)
<hendrixski> persia,  I'm following this.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot  I replaced breezy with gutsy, and it's didn't do anything :-(
<keescook> it does depend on having LVM set upt.
<keescook> *up
<persia> hendrixski: Use the distributed script rather than the wiki script.  Perhaps something changed.
<pkern> imbrandon: Your report is mainly about ssh public key inlining, which I don't need.
<hendrixski> persia, which one is the distributed script?
<pkern> Or which is superfluous and (if that's true) non-standard.
<imbrandon> pkern: yea that was what come of the faof disscussion though
<persia> hendrixski: aptitude install ubuntu-dev-tools
<hendrixski> ah
<imbrandon> pkern: and also the addition of faof:nick as with the indvidual rdf for each member ( so a LP url can be constructed )
<imbrandon> ( from the desc )
<hendrixski> persia, sorry to be such a noob, I'm not finding ubuntu-dev-tools
<persia> hendrixski: That wiki page seems a little old :)  To test debootstrap alone, I usually just make a directory, and run `debootstrap (release codename)` in that directory.
<persia> hendrixski: You're using 6.10 then :)
<hendrixski> persia, I'm on feisty... 7.04
<persia> hendrixski: Try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto.  You can use the schroots with `schroot -c $name`, and not bother with the sbuild bit, if you like.
<persia> hendrixski: My apologies.  I thought there was an ubuntu-dev-tools for 7.04, but I could well be mistaken.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-12
<hendrixski> persia, ah, that is a much better guide
<persia> hendrixski: If you find yourself with some time, and could update the first, that'd be a great help.
<hendrixski> persia, I just might... :-)
<hendrixski> persia, this is the one I'd really like to update: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<hendrixski> it only talks about dchroots
<persia> hendrixski: I'd recommend targeted updates.  If you have alternate language, please suggest it.
<hendrixski> persia,  target updates?
<persia> hendrixski: I don't recommend trying to fix the packaging guide in one pass.  Rather, pick specific targets to be updated, and change each piece individually.
<hendrixski> oh yeah, totally.  That's what I was thinking.  I assume the rest of the guide is moderately up to date,,, just there's nothing on it about schroots: like why, how, etc.  I've thought about how cool it'd be to submit a new page to it. :-)
<hendrixski> it's one of the pages in the appendix
<persia> Does anyone know of a report that compares package versions in etch and gutsy?  I've just found a CVE fixed in etch and open in gutsy, and wondered if there might be more...
<ajmitch> persia: like the rc bugs list?
<ajmitch> but with a full version comparison?
<imbrandon> persia: mdt ?
* ajmitch knows that pitti had some CVE comparions
<ajmitch> s/comparions/comparisons/
<pkern> persia: http://utnubu.alioth.debian.org/ are version number comparision.
<pkern> +s
<ajmitch> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html
<persia> ajmitch: Well, sorta.  Alternately something like multidisttools.  The issue with the rc bugs list is that it recommends the newest packages.  I should probably investigate those, but was looking for mindless sync requests.
<ajmitch> persia: of course it recommends the newest, since that's what's syncable
<persia> ajmitch: We can't sync from stable?
<pkern> We can.
<imbrandon> persia: stable should be much older than what we have
<ajmitch> debian stable has usually been a bit behind ubuntu :)
<persia> imbrandon: pkern: mdt does nicely, but it compares against sid, not etch :).  No worries.
<pkern> I think it's just not commonly done because most packages are > in gutsy.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: 'should'
<persia> imbrandon: That's my thought.  If there's anything on the list, it would be an immediate sync candidate.
<pkern> Out of Utnubu view there is no use in Etch diffs. ;)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: the rc bug list should be mostly empty by now, too ;)
<imbrandon> and mdt you can make it compare etch ( or any debian based archive )
<imbrandon> for that matter
<imbrandon> not just sid
<ajmitch> pkern: you've seen the rc bugs page we're talking about, I presume?
<persia> imbrandon: Yep.  Perhaps I'll install locally, and file a heap of sync requests this weekend.
<pkern> ajmitch: Of course not. ;)
<ajmitch> pkern: typical lazy MOTU ;)
<imbrandon> lol
<pkern> ajmitch: No, just not following ALL on IRC, heh.
<ajmitch> there may be some overlap with what's useful for utnubu
<ajmitch> pkern: it's ok, it's only been on the wiki for a few months :)
<persia> pkern: The RC buglist appears in TODO, and has been announced at least three times to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c
<pkern> ajmitch: :P
<ajmitch> it's a steaming pile of code that I'm cleaning up, too
<pkern> persia: I didn't know it's about any RC buglist.
<ajmitch> pkern: it's alright, we have too many scattered pieces of info
<persia> pkern: The RC buglist isn't quite what I sought (I was actually looking for some public etch <-> gutsy mdt), but it's the closest we have.
<hendrixski> the script for the schroot isn't working for me :-(  I get this output:
<hendrixski> p$ ./mk-sbuild-lv.sh storagevg gutsy
<hendrixski>   Volume group "storagevg" not found
<hendrixski> and... this is after I re-logged in
* hendrixski sighs... why can't this stuff just be easy
<pkern> You need to create LVM volume groups and stuff?
<pkern> Now that is easy according to some people. I beg to differ but YMMV.
* pkern uses cowbuilder.
<hendrixski> very nice of the manual to say so
<hendrixski> well... I gotta meet up with the girlfriend in a little bit... I guess schroot will have to wait for another day
<hendrixski> pkern, apt-cache searching only shows up cowdancer... is that what I'd need to make an LVM?
<pkern> ...
<pkern> No.
<hendrixski> pkern, wait... lvm is a partition thingy, no?
<hendrixski> I didn't need to do any of this crap for dchroots
<hendrixski> it just took a debootstrap, and ran it so that I could package and compile stuff without cluttering my system
<hendrixski> oh well... another day...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Simon80> hey
<bddebian> Heya Simon80
<Simon80> is it ok if I take this opportunity to nag you to fix a bug? I'm not a developer, so this is what I've stopped to
<Simon80> and lol, btanks, I tried it out this week
<Simon80> stooped to*
<Simon80> bddebian: I've been asking in this channel for someone to sync bochsbios from debian to fix Bug #123185, since I can't do it, but it seems straightforward
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123185 in bochs "bochsbios too old for Windows XP with qemu" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123185
<bddebian> I'm not sure we can get anymore in now that RC is here but I'll check it out
<Simon80> thanks
<Simon80> grr, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate
<Simon80> I was in here earlier, but nobody responded!
<bddebian> Hmm, whole new upstream release, that's no bueno
<Simon80> -_-
<bddebian> ScottK: You awake?
<persia> Simon80: Earlier, I suggested you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-1d28045481b8803d4815989e93edc4206f4848c4 to prep the bug to be ready for review.
<Simon80> persia: I didn't see that
<Simon80> sorry
<bddebian> Ah.. Heya persia
<persia> bddebian: Hey.  BTW, there's a target patch out for the CVE.
<bddebian> persia: There any chance of even getting new upstreams in, this late in the game?
<bddebian> Oh, there's a CVE for it?
<persia> bddebian: New upstreams are possible, but it'd likely have to be an upstream bugfix release addressing an issue widely seen by Ubuntu users.  I've seen a couple NACKs regarding new RCS snapshots, and I suspect motu-uvf will be even more skeptical now that we're RC.
<bddebian> Aye
<persia> The new version incidentally fixes a CVE, but there's a separated patch, so fixing the CVE shouldn't be an argument for UVFe
<bddebian> Hmm, is there a way to tell what kind archive a file is?  It's not gzip, tar, zip, etc
<ajmitch> by using file
<Simon80> file <filename>
<ajmitch> though it may just say it's data
<bddebian> Oh, haha, its just a stupid perl script..
<Simon80> lol
<ajmitch> 'less' would help there :P
<bddebian> Aye
<ajmitch> I know that perl can look like compressed binary data, but surely it's not that bad?
<Simon80> lol
<bddebian> I pulled the package from a sourceforge project so I was just expecting a binary
* bddebian should go to bed
<ajmitch> yep
<bddebian> Oh yeah, I'm definetly gonna package that one up.. Heh
* ajmitch should really reflash his phone
<StevenK> Your OpenMoko?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> I might try out qtopia on it
* persia likes qtopia.
<ajmitch> or I could possibly just upgrade to the latest openmoko image & run qtopia from a chroot on the sd card
<persia> ajmitch: Does you phone have enough memory for both?
<persia> (RAM)
<ajmitch> Mem:        126612      58124      68488          0          0      38356
<ajmitch> -/+ buffers/cache:      19768     106844
<ajmitch> with the normal openmoko UI running
* persia has a sudden desire for an OpenMoko
<Simon80> wait a couple months, persia
<Simon80> retail version, wifi
<Simon80> maybe retail is the wrong word.... user version
<RAOF> How's the interface?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you have a neo already?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: sure, why not?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: developers edition?
<Simon80> I don't actually have a Neo1973, but nobody else is answering, so here's this cool video that I saw a few days ago
<Simon80> http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/kinetic-scrolling-on-the-neo1973
<ajmitch> RAOF: 640x480 on small screen, very high dpi :)
<ajmitch> it can be a bit tricky without a stylus
<RAOF> I'm all for high DPI screens, but how is the *interface* :)
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> ...see the link! crazy scrolling!
<Simon80> I don't know first hand, but I think there's a lot of churn as far as the software is concerned, lots of potential for change before you will use it
<Simon80> that's my impression
<RAOF> That looks pretty cool.
<Simon80> lol, there's a video with neo's monologue from the end of the matrix on top of a video of the phone
<Simon80> it's deep  XD
<Simon80> it's not even a video though, it's a picture of it that is slowly zoomed out
<Simon80> ajmitch, is there a lot of friction and smudgy fingerprinting when you use your fingers on the screen?
<Simon80> that's what always keeps me using the stylus with my gadgets
* ajmitch keeps the screen protector on
<Simon80> _the_ screen protector?
<RAOF> I wouldn't really want to use a stylus for my phone.  That seems too awkward.
<StevenK> The plastic that's put on the screen when you first unwrap it, I'm suspecting
<ajmitch> the clear sticky plastic that covers the screen
<pwnguin> im all for good stylus interfaces
* ajmitch waits for the rootfs to download
<pwnguin> at some point i need to try ubuntu-mobile on this tablet
<ajmitch> need faster internets
<pwnguin> gnome is not very TabletPC friendly
* StevenK has Ubuntu Mobile running on the Samsung Q1U in front of him
<ajmitch> heh
* pwnguin can play quake wars on his tablet :P
<zul> StevenK: you are just special
<ajmitch> so very special
<pwnguin> are there vidoes of ubuntu mobile in action?
<StevenK> pwnguin: You could keep Gnome on it, and change the window manager to matchbox
<pwnguin> why would i do that?
<StevenK> Since matchbox looks to be more suited to tablets.
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> well this tablet pushes 1440x900
<pwnguin> id just like to see the whole thing before i start cherry picking ;)
* pwnguin is intrigued by the hildon interface stuff and would like to see handwriting recognition done
* RAOF wants handwriting recognition for maths.
<StevenK> The Q1U is 1024x600
<pwnguin> the tecra m7 has a keyboard :P
* StevenK pushes the USB keyboard further away from his desk
<pwnguin> UMPC looks great if you want to carry around a laptop as well
* persia prefers keyboards.  Small is good, but handwriting is annpying.
* StevenK hasn't seen any handwriting stuff
<pwnguin> i hate to bring up bug number 1
<pwnguin> but
<pwnguin> vista has some nice handwriting stuff in TIP
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> I've seen Vista's handwriting stuff
<pwnguin> its mostly the same as XP, but they claim to have added training and smarter scratch out delete
<pkern> Hah.  Migrated to university IPv6 instead of SixXS and other networking changes fun done.
<ajmitch> exciting
* persia seeks a patchmonkey for bug #151806
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151806 in alsaplayer "CVE-2007-5301 buffer overflow in vorbis input plugi" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151806
<TheMuso> persia: What do you mean by patchmonkey exactly?
<persia> TheMuso: Someone to grab the patch, make a debdiff, and submit a candidate.  I'm happy to sponsor, but I don't have access to Ubuntu right now.
<TheMuso> persia: Ah ok.
<TheMuso> this for gutsy, or previous releases.
<TheMuso> s/./?
<pkern> persia: Looks straightforward?
<pkern> persia: i.e. would do.
<persia> TheMuso: gutsy is the current target: no need to push CVE vulnerabilities in our new shiny release.  Feisty / Edgy / Dapper would be nice, but is less urgent (in my opinion)
<persia> pkern: Huh?
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah
<TheMuso> I'm happy to do it.
<pkern> Ok, then do it. :-P
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  Saves me sponsoring :)
<TheMuso> For gutsy, I assume we just upload as usual, even if its a security fix?
<pkern> TheMuso: Yes.
<TheMuso> Ok I'm on it
<persia> TheMuso: For now.  I haven't heard that the there's anything beyond casual checking on the queue yet.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> persia: How does one get a patch from the link you provided?
<TheMuso> ah hang on, got it worked out.
<persia> TheMuso: Sorry about that: cut & paste from the Debian bug.
<TheMuso> persia: np
<TheMuso> Theres an option to display the patch, which is a diff.
* mdomsch prepares first debdiff
* pkern installs Puppet on all server domUs.
<TheMuso> persia: Fix uploaded.
<persia> TheMuso: Thank you.  As far as I can see, that's the last CVE from the RC bugs list :)
<TheMuso> persia: np
<bddebian> anyone know much about libpng?
<ScottK> mdomsch: I haven't seen another ack for the UVFe, so I'll look into uploading the ubuntu2 revision.
<ScottK> pkern: Pong
<ScottK> bddebian: Awake and now present.
<ScottK> Hello everyone.
<mdomsch> ScottK, thanks much
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<ScottK> mdomsch: I haven't actually read the debdiff yet, but I'll look at it.
<ScottK> bddebian: See my debian/changelog entry for checkgmail?
<bddebian> You sir, are an ass ;-)
<ScottK> bddebian: Thank you for that.  That's the kind of encouragement I need.
<bddebian> :)
<ajmitch> ScottK: best changelog entry ever
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.
* pkern would rather go sleeping.
<pkern> 5AM and most of the pending admin work done. ;o)
<pwnguin> so is checkgmail better than gmail-notify?
<ScottK> pkern: Can you give me an IP address to ping that firehol would have formally dropped, but now wont?
<ScottK> pwnguin: No idea.
<ScottK> pwnguin: What I know is that Automatix will stop shipping a .desktop for checkgmail because the official version has one now (and it's actually a valid one, unlike theirs).
<pwnguin> heh
<ScottK> mdomsch: You've tested this and it works right?
<pwnguin> i wonder if that'll break upgrades
<pwnguin> "zomg, overwriting file not owned by checkgmail!"
<mdomsch> ScottK, I tested the code yes, not the actual new packaging thereof
<mdomsch> one sec
<pkern> ScottK: ka.philkern.de
<ScottK> pwnguin: If someone has installed Automatix, whatever upgrade breakage they have is not my problem.
<ScottK> mdomsch: OK.  I'm more worried about the code.  The patch applied, so the packaging I can look at and odds are tell.
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks
<pwnguin> ScottK: i think its a perfect example of why automatix is bad for users. fixing the package by default should be the goal
<mdomsch> ScottK, yes, it's working as expected
<ScottK> mdomsch: Thanks for the confirmation.  I'm building the package now.  Assuming it builds/installs/uninstalls, I'll upload it.
<mdomsch> danke
<pkern> mdomsch: ELANG ;)
<pkern> gn8 everyone.
<ScottK> pwnguin: I also looked and no one ever filed a bug to ask for a .desktop for checkgmail, so it's not like we were non-responsive.
<ScottK> mdomsch: Did you see how I updated your bug in LP?  If it's just in the Dell project, most devs will never see it.
<mdomsch> ahh, added distribution/package
<mdomsch> got it, thanks
<ScottK> Yes.  Added the distribution that you're actually trying to fix ;-)
<ScottK> No problem
<mdomsch> normally one of my teammates handles LP for me, I don't know the finer points yet
<ScottK> Well one of the things we do here is help people learn about Ubuntu stuff, so no trouble.
<ScottK> If you want to drop a couple of kernel patches to fix my Latitude L400 on Gutsy, it'd be a nice way to say thank you ...
<mdomsch> D400 ?
<ScottK> L400 (It's old)
<mdomsch> was it tiny?
<mdomsch> I may have seen one once
<ScottK> Yes.  I love the form factor even if it's slow.
<ScottK> Bug #127772 Bug 127773
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127772 in linux-source-2.6.22 "CPU fan no longer runs after upgrade to Gutsy" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127772
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127773 in hal "A/C Status, CPU Temp, and Battery no longer recognized as present after upgrade to Gutsy in Dell Latitude L400" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127773
<ScottK> But those to kernel regressions mean it'll never run Gutsy for anything other than development.
<bddebian> Damn, why aren't there any good RPG games for linux?
<mdomsch> ScottK, your bios is several revisions out of date; A03 -> A09
* RAOF would mention NWN, but you added the "good" qualifier :P
<ScottK> mdomsch: I'll look into that.  Thanks.
* mdomsch plugs firmware-tools, which someone is debianizing I'm told
<pwnguin> SCOURGE?
<pwnguin> also, rpgs are boring :P
<bddebian> NWN r0x j00
<nixternal> boo
<bddebian> As do KoToR, Oblivion
<nixternal> I love leaving off ;done in a Makefile, or ;;, or esac...at the dead end of a Makefile, and the build gets all the way to the end...and BOOM! errors out :)
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> mdomsch: Uploaded.  A couple of comments:
<RAOF> bddebian: I'll aggree with you about KoToR, certainly :)
<ScottK> mdomsch: Have a look at how I adjusted your debian/changelog entry.
<ScottK> mdomsch: Normally we'd have wanted you to put changes outside the Debian dir in a patch and use a patching system.  Since I know you've got a new upstream and we won't have to maintain the patch, I didn't worry about it this time.
<mdomsch> a patching system meaning apply the patch in debian/rules ?
<ScottK> mdomsch: Please update your packaging for your new upstream version to include the new debian/changelog entry for this upload and the gutsy/hardy in the distro and we'll get it uploaded when the Hardy repos open.
<ScottK> mdomsch: Like dpatch for example.  Gimme a sec and I'll give you a link
<pwnguin> bddebian: i can barely think of any good Freeware rpgs, let alone open source linux ones
<mdomsch> ok; where can I find the new package now
<mdomsch> I can look that up np
<pwnguin> unless you count roguelikes, which i assume by the complaint you are not
<ScottK> mdomsch: Now you'll have to wait for it to get accepted into the archive.
<ScottK> mdomsch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources (I knew where to find it...)
<bddebian> pwnguin: Nah, I'm thinking something built with the cube engine or something :)
<ScottK> Good night all.
<bddebian> Gnight ScottK
<ajmitch> bddebian: start writing one
<pwnguin> is saurbraten open enough?
<bddebian> I think the engine is but existing game data is not
<bddebian> ajmitch: I would love to if I had nearly the skills to do it
<pwnguin> bddebian: why not port nethack to cube?
<pwnguin> it's ripe for on the fly level generation
<bddebian> Because I'm clueless when it comes to real development
<pwnguin> so you made it to MOTU by rote learning?
<bddebian> packaging != hacking :-)
<lifeless> MOTU isn't about real development
<lifeless> its a completely bogus call to make
<shirish> hi all, I'm no developer/maintainer but trying to understand how things work.
<shirish> for this purpose, I downloaded the source of gedit , sudo apt-get source gedit and it downloaded the same as given at http://pastebin.ca/733844
<persia> bddebian: If you've a sense of plot, there's heaps of tools out there to provide alternate content.  avatars are harder, but most animators can't layout a good story, and are quick to respond to requests for collaboration (gives them game credits for their portfolio).
<bddebian> shirish: That is OK, it is just letting you know that it is maintained in bzr
<bddebian> persia: I wouldn't even know where to start :-(
<shirish> bddebian: right, I understood that, my issue is the last line, dpkg-source: applying ./gedit_2.20.1-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
<persia> bddebian: How immersive do you seek?  Which genre?
* persia also wants new games, but lacks a sense of plot
<lamont> and sadly, the error message is incorrect english
<shirish> bddebian: Am I correct in understanding that it applied the the .diff.gz  to the binary gedit.deb or am I way of-course
<shirish> bddebian: please help me understand what the last line does , thanx
<bddebian> shirish: It is applying the changes in .diff.gz to the extracted source
<lamont> shirish: it untarred the .orig.tar.gz and applied diff.gz to that
<shirish> ah.... ok that's cool
* lamont -> bed
<bddebian> Gnight lamont
<shirish> Gnight lamont
<bddebian> persia: Something along the lines of the old C64 Gold Box games.  I am an old (yes OLD :_) ) D&D hack
<shirish> bddebian: where would this extracted & applied gedit be now?
<shirish> bddebian: I mean in which directory, is there a specific place where the sources go?
<bddebian> shirish: It should have created the subdirectory for you.  dpkg-source: extracting gedit in gedit-2.20.1
<shirish> bddebian: I know but this sub-directory is in /home/username/gedit or somewhere else?
<shirish> bddebian: I can't seem to find the gedit sub-directory in /home/username/
<bddebian> shirish: Wherever you ran apt-get source in
<shirish> bddebian: aha... ok I found it thanx for your time bddebian
<shirish> :)
<bddebian> NP
<bddebian> persia: http://eisenstern.com :-)
<persia> bddebian: That's generations beyond C64 Gold Box.
<bddebian> I mean story and such.  I happen to like NWN but I didn't want to mention that again with pwnguin around ;-P
<pwnguin> what?
<bddebian> NWN
<pwnguin> i know
<pwnguin> but wy would i care?
<bddebian> I'm teasing :-)
<pwnguin> i dont even feel teased, just confused =/
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  Plot-wise, most engines are pretty flexible (athough some are more open-ended than others).  For sauerbraten, check out http://sauerbraten.org/docs/editing.html for initial map layout and http://quadropolis.us/ to hunt up someone who likes making things pretty.
<bddebian> pwnguin: Never mind it obviously wasn't funny :-)
<pwnguin> i mean, i dont really like nwn type games, but i dont think that was obvious from what ive said
<pwnguin> level design in cube / sauerbraten seemed pretty easy
<pwnguin> point and shoot
<persia> bddebian: For ideas as to how to structure your plot skeleton for an open-ended engine, I suggest you look at the "mission bits" management used in plugins for Escape Velocity (the original game: works in basilisk II) - some of the discussions for that made more sense to me than most other descriptions of how to manage plot progressions.
<bddebian> persia: Well, the nice thing about NWN is the user created content.  If you can make the rules and engine generic enough the community creates the content, so it's really more about a toolset than a game.  Though a pure game would be cool too.
<persia> bddebian: I believe separation of content and engine is a good thing.  There are too man half-finished engines that make the same mistakes already solved elsewhere (most have a sample game or two to make them worthwhile).
<persia> bddebian: If you have the toolset, it's just a matter of licensing.  Most game content developers aren't overly concerned about licensing, but those that are usually claim copyright, and only provide a license to play.
<persia> (perhaps more CC-BY-SA adoption in the gaming community would help with this: reduced "you stole it", and increased "you can distribute it"
<persia> )
<pwnguin> persia: note the recent warsaw debacle
<pwnguin> warsow, perhaps
<persia> pwnguin: I'm not finding such a debacle in my mail archives.  Something about warsow and battleye, but the internals aren't known to me.
<pwnguin> miriam ruiz had a blog entry that seemed pretty coherent
<pwnguin> http://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=110
<persia> pwnguin: Ah.  That.  Exactly.
<tonyyarusso> bddebian: Do you know who's in charge of the desktop effects stuff in Gutsy?  (gnome)
<persia> tonyyarusso: I think the denizens of #ubuntu-desktop are responsible, in at least an oversight role.
<tonyyarusso> persia: good point
<pwnguin> persia: apparently the mapper felt that he could use copyright to direct developers away from rendering techniques. not sure which he's referring to
<persia> pwnguin: It's not really important.  Actual licenses fo files are good.  Not having them is bad, and may result in all sorts of things: generally unhappily.
<persia> s/fo/for/
<pwnguin> i dont think the problem is license
<pwnguin> "unmodified Redistribution is allowed (c) 2007 all rights reserved" is a license
<pwnguin> which is basically what they have
<persia> pwnguin: That's a good license (as long as it belongs to the project).  Note the 2007.  The previous issue was that it wasn't codified anywhere, so individual files were (c) their authors, rather than (c) the warsow team (as a corporate entity) (and no, I don't mean that in any sense related to national business entity laws)
<pwnguin> i suppose i forgot to say (C) acid 2007
<persia> pwnguin: Perhaps.  I also forgot to say that "unmodified redistribution is allowed" conflicts with "all rights reserved", and that it should really be "all other rights reserved" (but that as this is default by statute, it's pointless to include in any case)
<bddebian> Ah well, gnight folks
<siretart> pkern: if we need changes to the rdf, lp is likely to help us here in a timely fashion
<siretart> pkern: eg. I requested the key id to be exported. They exported the complete fingerprint in a few weeks (if not faster)
* persia wonders if comment deletion from the rcbugs list is broken
* StevenK blinks
<StevenK> make: ./configure: Command not found
<RAOF> Yay self-modifying build system?
<persia> autogen.sh?
<RAOF> autoreconf --install?
<RAOF> Still, I'm not quite sure why *make* is invoking configure.
<persia> RAOF: make -f debian/rules
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> Right, yes.  rules is a makefile :)
<persia> Alternately, debian rules:1 -> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<asisak> Hey MOTUs!
<lifeless> win 20
<dholbach> good morning
<RAOF> Hey asisak, lifeless, dholbach!
* RAOF rocks out to the moonrock mambo
<\sh> moins
<asisak> heya RAOF
<asisak> Morgen \sh
<huats> morning all
<BugMaN> hi all
<asisak> dholbach: you said yesterday I should make a quick fix for tilda and ask the archive admins. Do you think it will still be possible during the weekend?
<dholbach> asisak: best to ask in #ubuntu-devel - a bunch of RMs are up atm
<dholbach> hey thekorn
<thekorn> hey dholbach
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<BugMaN> hi Seveas, could you please add my ubuntu/member cloak? my LP profile is https://launchpad.net/~bugman
<dholbach> joejaxx: do you have the full list of uploads/developer for ubuntu.joejaxx.org somewhere?
<dholbach> joejaxx: would be cool to get a total number of uploads for the motu team :-))
<dholbach> if you have the script for that somewhere, I could help to hack on that
<asisak> hey pochu
<pochu> heya asisak, how is it going?
<asisak> pochu: I am too busy nowadays, otherwise fine, thanks.
<pochu> asisak: too busy with Final bug fixes? ;)
<asisak> No, with uni stuff... I wanted to fix more bugs ...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<asisak> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello asisak
<norsetto> morning bddebian
<asisak> Morning norsetto
<bddebian> Heya norsetto
<norsetto> morning asisak
<BugMaN> hi norsetto
<norsetto> ave BugMaN
<pkern> hi $all
<ScottK> Hello everyone.
* persia extends generalised greetings, following the consensus zeitgeist
* pkern seconds https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/121653/comments/74 -- bah.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121653 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[gutsy]  Suspend to Ram does not work on Z61m" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
* \sh prepares a CVE bugfix for wzdftpd
<\sh> pkern, are you coming on sunday?
<pkern> \sh: Aye.
<\sh> pkern, cool...let's sign keys then ;)
<pkern> Good point. Need to find my keysigning jacket then. ;)
* \sh want to know what he can do with a openpgp smartcard...his gpg key is dsa and doesn't fit on the card
<\sh> pkern, ausweis and your id and fingerprint is enough ;)
<pkern> \sh: Fingerprint is printed on many snippets in that very jacket ;)
<pkern> \sh: You really need to use RSA keys AFAIR.
<norsetto> hi scottk, pkern
<pkern> As there are not yet DSA smartcards.
<pkern> Hi norsetto.
<ScottK> hi norsetto.
<ScottK> I'd be interested in an opinion on uploading the fix in Bug 125054 from someone who knows more about udev than me (that would be most of you).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125054 in openct "openct broken by ubuntu udev setup" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125054
<\sh> pkern, yeah....but having already a well known key (DSA) ... so what's it good for...well, I could some nice pam application with it ;)
<pkern> \sh: Signing/encryption subkeys?
<ScottK> pkern: Look at #ubuntu-devel about 20 minutes ago and be glad we didn't util-linux (>= 2.13) | linux32 on nspluginwrapper.
<pkern> \sh: You could attach those to your DSA key.
<pkern> ScottK: I'm not on #ubuntu-devel.
<ScottK> Ah.
<\sh> pkern, yeah...I'll have a look this evening...I didn't have enough time for playing around with it...but ubuntu knows actually how to deal with the smartcard reader :)=
<bddebian> Heya pkern, \sh, ScottK.. :)
<ScottK> pkern: Apparently autopkgtest or something related decides that means it really ought to install linux32 when then conflicts with stuff and the build dies.
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<pkern> ScottK: Bah. Broken tools.
<pkern> \sh: Is it new?
<pkern> \sh: Well, I would need to get a PCMCIA reader first. Only got a USB one, which would be... annoying.
<pkern> Moin bddebian
<ScottK> pkern: Agreed.  Just glad it wasn't our upload that pointed out the problem a week before release.
<\sh> pkern, I have a usb one...
<persia> ScottK: I'm not a udev expert, but the patch looks relatively sane, and I'm tempted when upstream extracts a special patch just for our new shiny release.
<ScottK> persia: I'm trying to fix clamav-milter just now.  Could you take that one?
<persia> ScottK: Just an upload?
<ScottK> persia: Assuming the patch is good, yes.
* ScottK didn't review it in detail, just didn't want it to get missed in the final rush.
<persia> pkern: Do you happen to use openct to access your smartcard reader?
<pkern> \sh: Works for me for HBCI on the desktop. ;)
<pkern> persia: libchipcard...
<pkern> Don't know what driver it installs. Last time I didn't have to configure anything.
<\sh> pkern, I just start this daemon and everything is fine...gpg finds it and can use it :)
<pkern> \sh: Yep.
<persia> \sh?  Do you by any chance use openct?  I'd like to see a patch tested by non-upstream before it's uploaded (but may in any case)
<\sh> persia, nope...
<\sh> persia, I have mobile tans and a nice web interface, and a future wife who takes care of my account ,-)
<persia> \sh: Ah.  That's the easiest way to administer it :)
<\sh> if somebody has time and wants to fix a security upload for gutsy, please use https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/wzdftpd/+bug/151946
<pkern> \sh: private
<\sh> grmpf...changing
<pkern> \sh: Will do.
<\sh> pkern, thx..
<white> \sh: why not syncing the NMU from the testing-security team?
<\sh> white, ah right...it's already uploaded...
<\sh> pkern, wait
<\sh> white no
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> there are ubuntu changes
<\sh> that's why
<white> \sh: drop them :P
<\sh> white, not this release ;)
<ScottK> \sh: Would you be willing to prepare *-security uploads for affected released versions too?
<pkern> \sh: done
<\sh> ScottK, sure..I wrote it ;)
<\sh> ScottK, but this will happen this evening...when I have my real working environment
<ScottK> \sh: Great.  I'm sure keescook will be glad to have the updates whenever you can get to them.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<\sh> ScottK, yepp...I normally provide debdiffs for all -security stuff I do...
<\sh> but this was focussed on gutsy because of the release date ,)
<ScottK> Great.  Most people don't seem to.  Glad you do...
<ScottK> Understand.
<\sh> ScottK, when is edgy dying?
<pkern> Good signature on /tmp/wzdftpd_0.8.2-2ubuntu2.dsc.
<ScottK> Not for another 6 months.  Because Dapper is LTS we don't drop a release this time.
<pkern> Sorry \:
* persia requests another pair of eyes for http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9945926/ubuntu-gutsy-fix.diff (for bug #125054).  I can't figure out how $MODALIAS would be set.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125054 in openct "openct broken by ubuntu udev setup" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125054
<\sh> oh damn...
<\sh> mhb won't come to the uds...that's sad
* ScottK agrees.
<Hobbsee> darn :(
<\sh> but the explanation is much more sad
* ScottK agrees with that too.
* Hobbsee wonders what the explanation was
<\sh> Hobbsee, see planet
* persia suggests that countries with such open visa policies are not ideal locations for UDS
<Hobbsee> \sh: ugh :(
<Hobbsee> i wonder how many people will get hit with that?
<\sh> .cx is christmas island?
<pkern> US just sucks, but we knew that one already.
<\sh> oh it's just the hoster...he's czech...this is old eastern area...no wonder
<bddebian> *cough*
<pkern> madduck aka Martin F. Krafft is even on the no-fly list.
<pkern> Now that's a DD, not a UD, but well.
<zul> pkern: er why?
<\sh> .oO(Martin showed his other passport ,-)))
<pkern> zul: He suspects because he helped hosting al jazeera (i.e. was listed in the WHOIS info).  But you can't get information about that.
<ScottK> pkern: Please don't start that.  I've got my own opinions about that, but please don't get me all defensive and stuff.
<pkern> Information why you are on this list is secret.
<pkern> ScottK: I didn't speak with you, did I?
<ScottK> pkern: You maligned my country.
<pkern> ScottK: Now you could get out your patriot hat, but I suggest that you do not.
<ScottK> It's got issues, but who doesn't.
<Hobbsee> take it to #ubuntu-s
<Hobbsee> take it to #ubuntu-us
<pkern> ScottK: Ok I'll revise my comment.
<pkern> US visa policies sucks.
<ScottK> pkern: Agreed.  I'm just suggesting we avoid the whole topic.
<azeem> pkern: how about you take it elsewhere?
<pkern> ScottK: Aye.
<persia> Um..  While political discussion in this channel is sometimes appropriate, it should be restricted to Ubuntu governance, and not specific national arrangements.
<\sh> no...it's not about the people..it's about the government.. and today, all governments are sucking some more some less...but they all suck
<pkern> \sh: That's true, too. Sadly enough.
* \sh just had a similar situation with a good friend of my future wife...
* pkern 's fingerprints are saved for another 97 years.
<\sh> she had an invitation of the spain government, she got the tickets et all
<pkern> \sh: And she's not from the EU?
<pkern> Bah. \:
<\sh> pkern, camerron
<\sh> cameroon
<\sh> the spanish ambassador refused to give her the visa..but she had all the necessary papers...
<\sh> his explanation: you don't have an account...and you need one at least with xxxx eur on it
<\sh> and now she needs an account with some money on it...and had to get all the papers again, because the old ones are not valid anymore....fun
* persia gives up on openct
<\sh> so...still 20 minutes to go and then 3 weeks of holiday
<Hobbsee> holiday?  waht's that?
<persia> 20 minutes?
<\sh> perher, end of business for today for me ni 16 minutes now ;)
<\sh> Hobbsee, something I hadn't the whole year
<ScottK> It's me banging my head against the clamav-milter inits and postfix integration right now instead of doing $WORK.
<persia> \sh: Ah.  I can never keep track of daylight adjustments :)  I would have thought 75 minutes.  May it pass quickly.
* ScottK whines to lamont for help and gives up for now...
<StevenK> persia: I think clocks go backward when you're waiting for holiday time.
<StevenK> blueyed: Ping
<blueyed> StevenK: pong
<persia> StevenK: I generally have the opposite experience.  I regularly find Fridays prior to vacations extending through midday Sunday.
<StevenK> persia: Ew
* xhaker recommends checking the pictures http://www.formatds.org/ubuntu-pt-1st-free-software-forum-lisbon/
<StevenK> blueyed: I got a second opinion about your debdiff, and I haven't applied it.
<StevenK> blueyed: But thank you for proving virtualbox-ose-modules builds on i386 - I've uploaded it for -14
<blueyed> cool. What was wrong with the debdiff?
<StevenK> blueyed: Dropping the ABI from the package names is the wrong thing to do
<blueyed> I see. But I hope some of the "maintainance" improvements got considered? (I'll take a look at it now)
<StevenK> blueyed: To be updated I have to edit control and add a changelog entry, that's it
<\sh> so...will cu later this evening...:)
<StevenK> blueyed: And I already got bugged to add a postinst.
<norsetto> anyone on an i1386/feisty for a little test?
<StevenK> amd64/feisty, does that count? :-)
<norsetto> StevenK: can you cut your cpu in two?
<ScottK> norsetto: Do I need a GUI to test it?
* torkel hands StevenK an axe :-)
* ScottK has a server on Feisty.
<StevenK> I can, given a sharp enough edge...
<StevenK> Not that I want to.
<norsetto> ScottK: I'm afraid so, thx anyhow
<StevenK> norsetto: I have a 32 bit chroot
<ScottK> norsetto: I do have a Feisty Kubuntu hard drive for my laptop.  If you find no one else, I could reboot into it.
<blueyed> StevenK: are you sure that just "postinst" gets put into the package(s)? It wasn't in my test, so I've used <packagename>.postinst.
<blueyed> AFAIK postinst only gets used for the first package.
<StevenK> blueyed: Read the rules
<blueyed> k
<pkern> Who's in charge of the release notes?
<norsetto> stevenk: can you test gcalctool with that?
* pkern has an axe to grind.
* dholbach hugs norsetto
* norsetto feels ashamed ....
* norsetto hugs dholbach back anyhow
<dholbach> how's it going?
* bddebian hands pkern a sharpening stone
<bddebian> Heya dholbach
<dholbach> hey bddebian
<StevenK> norsetto: Waiting for it and depends to install...
<norsetto> stevenk: thx steven
<StevenK> /bin/sh: /usr/bin/esd: No such file or directory
<StevenK> Twitch
<StevenK> Anyway, what am I testing?
<persia> StevenK: That's a good thing, isn't it?
<norsetto> scottK: hmmm, don't want you to download half a repo just for that, forgot you are a Kman :-)
<norsetto> SteveK: can you convert -1 to binary?
<norsetto> StevenK: can you convert -1 to binary?
<StevenK> persia: I'm running a *calculator*, why is it trying to run esd?
<persia> StevenK: um...  I thought we killed esd.  Aside from that, button-click?
<StevenK> norsetto: Yes, it's -1
<norsetto> StevenK: try with &16
<blueyed> StevenK: looks fine, except from the need to change the version in multiple places (but only one file though). This can only be worked around by using something like control.in and @@ABIVER@@-replacement. But that's really minor, at least decent editors can replace globally.. ;)
<StevenK> blueyed: Exactly. :%s/-14/-15/g FTW
* blueyed is happy that virtualbox-ose gets supported fully in Gutsy. Thanks!
<StevenK> norsetto: -16 == -10000
<norsetto> StevenK: ? Did you convert it to unsigned 16 bit with &16?
<StevenK> blueyed: Yeah, I'm just not happy about the bug reports. Eleventy-one people all saying "Doesn't work"
<StevenK> norsetto: I did -16
<norsetto> stevenk: no, its -1 with &16 (its on the left top)
<StevenK> No sane value to convert
<norsetto> StevenK: Can you press these button in sequence: &16 - 1 ) bin
<StevenK> u16(-1) == 1111111111111111
<norsetto> StevenK: ah!
<norsetto> stevenk: what about: &16 -128 ) bin
<StevenK> u16(-128) == 1111111110000000
<norsetto> StevenK: good, thx for the help
<StevenK> norsetto: Okay, I'm all done?
<persia> The bacula package seems to have most patches in diff.gz, excepting one, applied manually in debian/rules from debian/patches.  The rest of debian/patches appears to be .sed scripts which are run at various points in debian/rules.  Any suggestions on the best method by which to apply Ubuntu patches?
<norsetto> stevenk: yes, thx a bunch, you may profit to check if you remember pi to the ninth decimal digit though
<StevenK> Only 4, if the 4th digit is a 5
<persia> StevenK: 9
<StevenK> I swear I used to remember more
<StevenK> 3.1429
<StevenK> That doesn't look right
<persia> StevenK: 3.1415...9
<norsetto> StevenK: ouch :-)
<pkern> I remember all the digits of Pi. Not the order, though.
<StevenK> persia: Haha
* persia remembers 3.141592653589793236, but has never actually found a use for that many significant digits
<persia> (maybe 83 is next?)
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 13 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<persia> dholbach: Can anyone ask questions?  Can I ask about patching bacula?  :)
<dholbach> persia: if we run out of other questions...... ;-)
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> What about patching bacula?
<StevenK> You leave bacula alone, it is the precious.
<persia> dholbach: Fair (but was supposed to be a joke)
<dholbach> what kind of abomination is it this time? :)
<persia> The bacula package seems to have most patches in diff.gz, excepting one, applied manually in debian/rules from debian/patches.  The rest of debian/patches appears to be .sed scripts which are run at various points in debian/rules.  Any suggestions on the best method by which to apply Ubuntu patches?
<zul> ewww bacula i (tried) to maintain it for gentoo
<dholbach> if it's too hideous, I'd patch the source and add a debian/applied-patches dir for reference
<StevenK> Oh yes, now I remember the packaging for bacula is a little hideous
<persia> dholbach: I don't think the reference is very useful.  It's a patch from upstream (separated upstream & I've referenced the upstream bug), and Debian has a much newer version (with the patch applied).
<PhinnFort> is it it me, or the vmware-player package that is broken?
<Hobbsee> persia: brutally sanitize the package.
<pkern> PhinnFort: vmware-player will be removed from Gutsy.
<Hobbsee> PhinnFort: it shouldn't even exist anymore
<dholbach> persia: ok
<persia> Hobbsee: This close to release?  I'd like that, but I don't want to be given a cigarette at dawn.
<PhinnFort> pkern: i'm on gutsy, and it exists in a very broken state
<Hobbsee> pkern: anyone actually filed a removal request for it?
<zul> persia: alot of things are done at the last minute
<pkern> Hobbsee: Me.
<StevenK> persia: This close to release, it's just the blindfold, sorry.
<pkern> Hobbsee: I was told that it will be removed later this week.
<StevenK> :-P
<Hobbsee> pkern: ah
<ScottK> Hobbsee: And pitti said he'd do it.
<persia> bug #151424
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151424 in vmware-player "Remove vmware-player 1.0.2-2 from gutsy/multiverse" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151424
<Hobbsee> cool
<pkern> Hobbsee: Or "in a few days".
<pkern> First asking Fabione or so o_O
<zul> persia: you would surprised at how much stuff gets removed at last minute :)
<persia> zul: Not really.  I remember the last few releases :)
<ScottK> Then openssl097 can die too.
<persia> ScottK: I suggest that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers might be a source of the impression that people need mentors.  You might want to take a look at the top.
<ScottK> persia: I'm not gonna fight dholbach on process churn anymore.  I just volunteer here.
<persia> ScottK: OK.
<ScottK> </bitter>
<ScottK> Thanks though.
<dholbach> persia: I'll take a look at it later
<persia> dholbach: After the -mentors meeting is probably better
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> ScottK: I'm quite sure the 'mentor' bit was there before and used 'mentor' in a different context
<dholbach> ScottK: in any case I'll review it and rephrase it properly
<dholbach> so please don't make it look like I imposed a process on you again
* persia suggests this discussion is better held after the Q&A session
<imbrandon> moins all, heya dholbach
<dholbach> persia: yeah
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<ScottK2> dholbach: I'm not gonna argue about it.
<dholbach> I mentioned it because you said you were bitter about it and whatever you were upset about was in this case not my fault
<zul> morning
<ScottK2> dholbach: I'm bitter overall about where we are going process wise (as we've discussed before).
* ScottK2 goes back to fixing bugs.
<dholbach> OK.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: can i whine about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers - it suggests only having 1 sponsor/uploader - this is undesirable.
* persia reiterates that after the Q&A session is a better time for the discussion
<dholbach> Hobbsee: will take care of it
<Hobbsee> persia: true.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: great!
<Hobbsee> persia: wasnt meaning now, was just putting it on the TODO
* persia points to earlier comments, unable to resist channel-switching
<dholbach> right-o
<ScottK> pkern: With firehol 1.231-4 installed I can ping 91.89.4.9 (the IP I get for the hostname you gave me yesterday).  Shouldn't that not work?
<pkern> I'd guess it's the reverse.
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> That does make it rather harder to test.
<pkern> I could ping ya *eg*
<ScottK> Well the Dapper box in question is behind a router and I'd have to physically move it to the other side of the house.  Don't think so.
<pkern> Hm. Maybe it should also block outgoing traffic not to be silly but well...
<pkern> At least 90.0.0.0/7 was present in it.
<pkern> Which matches my IP.
<StevenK>  /7? Ouch
<ScottK> I'll install your fix from -proposed then and see how that goes.
<pkern> StevenK: That was actually unroutable.
<pkern> StevenK: Until years ago or so. ;)
<ScottK> pkern: What was the bug for your firehol SRU again?
<StevenK> pkern: Why?
<pkern> StevenK: Because they were not delegated to a RIR.
<StevenK> pkern: I can't expand RIR
<pkern> ScottK: bug #131946
<pkern> StevenK: regional internet registries or so
<ScottK> pkern: Of course you realize that by making firehol work better with IPv4 you are delaying your goal of IPv6 world dominance.
<ScottK> pkern: Thanks.
<pkern> StevenK: RIPE, ARIN etc.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131946 in firehol "Firehol in Ubuntu 6.10 can't work properly due change in reserved ips" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131946
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> pkern: Ahh, I get you
<ScottK> pkern: Commented.
<ScottK> leonel: You've got dapper and edgy, right?
<leonel> ScottK:  and Gutsy  now :-)
<ScottK> leonel: Can you test the SRU for 131946 ^^^ from dapper/edgy-proposed?
<proppy> hi
<leonel> ScottK: is the  launchpad  bug  131946
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131946 in firehol "Firehol in Ubuntu 6.10 can't work properly due change in reserved ips" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131946
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  That one.
<leonel> what tests you need ?   are the debs  done ?
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  They are in dapper/edgy-proposed.
<ScottK> pkern: leonel should be able to help out with testing your SRU, but may need some guidance.
<persia> motu-uvf team: Any thoughts on a possible clive 0.2.0-1.1 -> 0.2.1-1 UVF sync (fixes access to YouTube & Google Video)
<ScottK> persia: Is it just bug fixes?
* persia hunts upstream changelog
<ScottK> And can you gest it?
<StevenK> ScottK: Gest?
<ucap> can anyone tell me where I can find the pbuilder logfile?
<StevenK> ucap: pbuilder doesn't write logfiles by default
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<ScottK> persia: gest/test
<StevenK> Ah ha. :-)
<leonel> ScottK: I need to go out  Can It  wait  1 or 2 hours ?
<ScottK> leonel: Sure
<ScottK> leonel: Just ping pkern if you have questions.
<ucap> I know I added --logfile to the command but can't for the life of me find it
<persia> ScottK: I think so (http://dl.gna.org/clive/ChangeLog)
<StevenK> ucap: I thought --logfile took an argument
<StevenK> ucap: Besides, pbuilder is a bit stupid about logging. I'd pipe the whole lot into tee.
<persia> I'm happy to gest  (GEnerate UVFe bug and teST), but I didn't know if y'all wanted to stop UVFe'ing now that RC is out.
<ScottK> ucap: StevenK is right.  --logfile takes an argument, so look wherever you told it to put it.
<StevenK> persia, ScottK: Based on the changelog, and a sucessful test, with a correct UVFe bug filed, and I'm good.
<ScottK> StevenK: What do you think about clive UVFe?  Seems not unreasonable to me.
<leonel> ScottK: the first question is  here are hte dapper-proposed packages ?
<StevenK> ScottK: ^ :-)
<leonel> be back ..
<StevenK> ScottK: I think we were typing that at the same time ... :-)
<ScottK> leonel: Enable the dapper-proposed repository and then apt-get install firehol
<ScottK> StevenK: Yes.
<ucap> StevenK, ScottK: ok, thanks
<persia> Thanks.  Does that apply for other reasonably-sane UVFe's on the RC list?
<ScottK> persia: I'd say so.  In universe I think we can keep fixing stuff until the RM's tell us to stop.
<StevenK> Agreed.
* persia now plans a weekend of RC hunting
<ScottK> Excellent.
<StevenK> ScottK: Actually, let's collar pitti
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.  I'd prefer the confirmation.  It's one thing to upload little patches, but another to keep pushing new stuff.
<ucap> ScottK: I did what you asked for in bug #2383. Is that all that is needed?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 2383 in mergeant "Please sync mergeant 0.66-1 from debian unstable" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2383
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> ucap: And it installs/works in Gutsy?
<ucap> yes, it does. I used pbuilder
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> StevenK: What do you think about bug #2383?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 2383 in mergeant "Please sync mergeant 0.66-1 from debian unstable" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2383
<ScottK> I'm kind of inclined to go for it.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:StevenK] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze / Upstream Version Freeze in effect -  Universe Freeze Monday, all uploads to be approved by -uvf
* persia still wants to know what "Monday" means.
<Hobbsee> persia: that should be made clear, when teh RM wakes up
<StevenK> Last Gutsy freeze ever.
* persia thinks it's a motu-uvf deadline, rather than a RM deadline, but shuts up obidiently
* StevenK sniffs
<StevenK> persia: It's both
<Hobbsee> persia: the RM is RM over the entire archive.  but yes, he'll likely delegate to us.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: pitti signed off on it, see -devel
<Hobbsee> i'm expecting him to put both dates in the announcement - please liason with him, if he doesnt
<persia> OK.  Fine.  I was guessing you'd all agree to something like 12:00 UTC, which is probably slightly prior to the actual freeze, but ensures there's time for RM processing, etc.
<superm1> persia, by not defining what monday means, that lets a few people slip by last minute with an excuse :S
<persia> superm1: That's actually the reason I wanted a timestamp.  My Monday will likely end around the time the RM's Monday starts, so I'd have an unfair advantage in breaking the rules.
<superm1> ah
<dholbach> rock on imbrandon! good you blogged about it too :)
<ScottK> StevenK: Any thoughts on Bug #2383?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 2383 in mergeant "Please sync mergeant 0.66-1 from debian unstable" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2383
<StevenK> ScottK: Oh, I'm so sorry, I did look.
<StevenK> ScottK: It looks fine, based on the changelog.
<ScottK> OK.  I'll ack it then too.
<ScottK> It's been quite some time since I've dealt with a 4 digit bug number.
<StevenK> Indeed.
<StevenK> I thought they were all long dead. :-)
<dholbach> norsetto: will you move the logs to some place on the wiki?
<ScottK> StevenK: Are you going to ack in LP, or should I copy/paste you IRC ack?
<StevenK> ScottK: The latter, please
<ScottK> StevenK: Doing.
<norsetto> dholbach: doing it right now
<amachu> bluekuja: hi
<ScottK> StevenK: Done and acked to the archive.
<dholbach> norsetto: GRACIAS
<bluekuja> amachu: heyaa!
<StevenK> ScottK: Danke
<dholbach> have a great weekend!
<amachu> bluekuja: busy
<bluekuja> amachu: who me?
<amachu> yep, its your nick marked away?
<amachu> ok... will fontutils be fine?
<amachu> to begin
<amachu> ?
<bluekuja> amachu: yeah
<bluekuja> amachu: coz I'm finishing some urgent stuff
<amachu> ok
<amachu> bluekuja: will fontutils be fine?
<bluekuja> amachu: as I said I guess it's already in, but if you want to exercise
<bluekuja> its ok
<amachu> well... i am checking with few others too
<amachu> fine do have any package then?
<bluekuja> amachu: if you want to start packaging a software from the base, you have to get not-already-packaged software
<bluekuja> amachu: if you wanna learn how to merge, steps are different
<amachu> bluekuja: its from the base to begin with
<amachu> fontutils is missing to my knowledge
<leonel> ScottK:  pkern  firehol installed  what is for testing ?
<ScottK> StevenK, zul, soren, and LongPointyStick: Here's my take on where we are with UVFe's: Bug #148834 Nack from me, Bug #149400 Nack from me, Bug #149343 needs testing, Bug #141225, nack from me, and finally Bug #138313, no action (I'm thinking maybe yes).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148834 in hipo "UVFe: please sync hipo from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148834
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149400 in disksearch "[UVFe]  DiskSearch v1.2.1 into Gutsy" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149400
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149343 in tora "[UVFe]  Merge tora 1.3.22-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149343
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141225 in fslint "[Sync Request]  Please sync fslint 2.24-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141225
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 138313 in mtx "new upstream version of mtx requested." [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138313
<ScottK> leonel: Talk to pkern if he's around.
<pkern> ScottK: I thought it was you who got it running? :-P
<leonel> ScottK:  ok I' wail  mean do the  edgy  install ..
<ScottK> pkern: You need two testers to get it approved for each release.  leonel can be your 2nd for Dapper and first for Edgy.
<ScottK> pkern: Yes, but I'm kind of busy ATM>
<ScottK> >/.
<pkern> leonel: interface any world dst not "$UNROUTABLE_IPS" in `/etc/firehol/firehol.conf' will make ka.philkern.de unpingable in the old version, not in the new version.
<leonel> pkern: ok  installed  and  not configured  anything  and  ka.philken.de   responds  pings
<leonel> pkern:  and now ?
<leonel> pkern:  i'm new to firehol
<ScottK> If any motu-hopeful wanted to test out http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/a/amavis-stats/amavis-stats_0.1.12-7.5.dsc for a sync to fix a grave bug, it'd be a useful thing to be doing at this point.
<pkern> leonel: Apply what I said.
<zul> sweet simon pegg might be the new scotty in the star trek movie
<pkern> leonel: i.e. modify `/etc/firehol/firehol.conf' and modify the `interface' line to read like what I wrote above.
<leonel> leave  client all accept ?
<leonel> if so ..
<leonel> it pings to ka.philkern.de
<pkern> The version already in dapper?
<leonel> its in edgy ..
<leonel> let me test in dapper
<pkern> Point is that most would use that to block incoming traffic from those ips. I modified that rule to block outgoing instead, but I may be wrong on that.
<leonel> same result with  dapper
<leonel> pings   google   and  ka.philkern.de
<pkern> leonel: Try `interface eth0 world src not "$UNROUTABLE_IPS"' and `  client all accept'.
<pkern> With eth0 replaced if needed.
<leonel> pkern:  that's  configured ...
<leonel> let'me change to eth0
<pkern> This reliably blocks traffic from my router to me on Etch.
<pkern> (With 90.0.0.0/7 readded, though.)
<pkern> leonel: src, not dst maybe
<leonel> interface eth0 world src not "$UNROUTABLE_IPS"
<leonel>    client all accept
<leonel> 
<pkern> Got to go, though. \: The change is so damn trivial. So IMHO if it installs and upgrades, it's ok.
<leonel> pings to  91.89.4.9
<pkern> leonel: The not SRU version? Is there 90.0.0.0/7 in /lib/firehol/firehol?
<leonel> pkern: same result on edgy an dapper
<leonel> there's no /etc/firehol/firehol
<leonel>  but a firehol.conf
<pkern> leonel: /lib
<pkern> But there are differences between the version I have here and the one you have, because I'm at home currently.
<leonel> ups
<leonel> pkern: no  90.0.0.0/7  in  /lib/firehol/firehol
<leonel> ScottK: what's for test for   amavis-stats ?
<blueyed> StevenK: have you seen bug 152015?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152015 in virtualbox-ose-modules "please make a virtualbox-ose-modules-generic meta-package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152015
<ScottK> leonel: Get the source package from Debian and then build it and install it for Gutsy.  Since the current package is non-working, I think that's all the testing it needs.  If it tests good, file a sync request bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<ScottK> leonel: Are you up for that?
<leonel> build on gutsy ?
<ScottK> leonel: Yes
<leonel> booting  gutsy ..
<pkern> ubotu: paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<pkern> leonel: Please paste apt-cache policy firehol
<pkern> leonel: Into the pastebin. ;)
<leonel> pkern: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40420/
<pkern> leonel: That's my fixed version.
<pkern> leonel: Which obviously contains the fix already ;)
<pkern> leonel: i.e. "all is fine"
<leonel> great !
<ScottK> zul: Thanks.  Only two open items in the motu-uvf queue now.
<zul> sweet
<leonel> ScottK: it builds ..
<leonel> dpkg-deb: building package `amavis-stats' in `../amavis-stats_0.1.12-7.5_all.deb'.
<ScottK> leonel: And installs?
<leonel> hold on
<leonel> ii  amavis-stats                 0.1.12-7.5                   Virus statistics RRDtool frontend for Amavis
<leonel> it does
<leonel> ScottK: ..
<ScottK> leonel: Please file a sync request for it.  Do you know how to do that?
<leonel> nop  .. it's a bug like ?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> In your Gutsy install, sudo apt-get install ubuntu-dev-tools and then requestsync -s amavis-stats gutsy should get you ready to submit the bug via mail.
<leonel> ScottK: no secret key ...
<leonel> can it be done in launchpad ?
<leonel> with  this  summary :   Please Sync Amavis-stats from debian to gutsy    ?
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.  Take the text and copy/paste it into a new bug filed against that package and then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> That title.
<leonel> ScottK: it's a security vulnerability  right ?
<ScottK> leonel: No.  It's a package doesn't work problem.
<leonel> ok
<ScottK> It's incompatible with the version of amavisd-new that we have.
<leonel> and in the description   for the bug:   Builds  and installs  on gutsy ?
<ajmitch> good morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ScottK> leonel: Yes.
<ScottK> Heya ajmitch.
<zul> afternoon ajmitch
* ajmitch needs more ram
<leonel> ScottK:  done    bug 152074
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152074 in amavis-stats "Please Sync Amavis-stats from debian to gutsy " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152074
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks.
<leonel> ScottK: is that  all ?
<ScottK> leonel: Yep.
<ScottK> leonel: Nope
<ScottK> The stuff in the text for requestsync with the debian/changelog entries needs to be in there too.  Sorry.
<ajmitch> jcastro: nice bass there
<leonel> ScottK:  all the changelog  or just the last entry ?
<ScottK> Just the last.
<leonel> I didn't made a dch  keep the debian one ?
<ScottK> The rule is you want all the debian/changelog entries for revisions newer than we already have.  Yes.  The Debian one.
<leonel> ok
<leonel> editing ..
<leonel> done
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks.  Acked to the archive and now we wair.
<ScottK> wair/wait
<leonel> ScottK:  great !
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch, how you're doing?
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<ajmitch> alright
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<sistpoty> bddebian: I'm seeing your commits in the games team... wanna work towards a new upstream of trigger?
<geser> Hi bddebian
<sistpoty> bddebian: actually everything should be in svn already, but I haven't built/tested it for ages though ;)
<bddebian> Heya geser
<bddebian> sistpoty: Sure, I can take a look at it
<sistpoty> bddebian: that would be most excellent! thanks!
<sistpoty> damn, just too much spam on the motu ml, had a hard time to find slangasek's post in the queue
<ScottK> sistpoty: Seriously?  I see almost no spam from that list.
<ScottK> sistpoty: Ah, in the moderation queue.  Nevermind.
<sistpoty> ScottK: hehe
<ScottK> I just launched the motu-uvf here's how we are going to deal with that response.
<sistpoty> ScottK: funnily enough, many spam mails point to "cheap legal software" *g*
<ScottK> Yes.  I run some mailing lists, so I've seen them.
<sistpoty> well, personally I get more spams for targeted at my personal parts, so I still find the circumstance that the motu ml get's more software mails funny
<ScottK> :-)
<bddebian> sistpoty: There is a new upstream somewhere?
<bddebian> Oh, nevermind
<bddebian> Misread what you said :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> ScottK: thanks for the clarification!
<ScottK> sistpoty: Just trying to engage in suprise avoidance.
<sistpoty> :)
<\sh> re
<ScottK> For Feisty we had packages that at release were built for some archs and not for others.  That's a little to close for me.
<sistpoty> yeah, I remember uploading (or rather getting sponsored) in the last hours of breezy
<sistpoty> hey \sh, how are you?
<\sh> sistpoty, right now I'm fine....holidays...waited for this to happen for about 1 year :)
<sistpoty> \sh: congrats... still need to wait until december (because I'm only employed since may)
<\sh> sistpoty, oh and we are closing down the company :(
<sistpoty> july even... *g*, how time flies by
<ajmitch> \sh: ouch, so a really long holiday?
<sistpoty> \sh: oh, that's bad new
<sistpoty> +s
<\sh> ajmitch, not now..this is only 3 weeks..but we are closing the company on 2008-01-31
<ajmitch> so you have to make sure you save & get your CV out there before then
<ajmitch> what fun
<\sh> ajmitch, I did already...
* \sh is preparing security updates for wzdftpd*(dapper,edgy,feisty)
<sistpoty> \sh: any new job offers around already?
<\sh> sistpoty, yepp...some interesting, of course
<\sh> pkern, didn't you upload wzdftpd to gutsy?
<sistpoty> \sh: cool. I still remember your blog posts from last time, which left me with an uncomfortable feeling
<pkern> \sh: pending approval?
<pkern> \sh: Last I heared anyway.
<\sh> pkern, oh yes
* pkern is still vary which distribution to use on his laptop.
<bddebian> <subliminal>Come to the dark side</subliminal>
<sistpoty> haha
<pkern> bddebian: Lenny?
<bddebian> sistpoty: *** No rule to make target 'debian/trigger.6.sgml', needed by 'debian/trigger.6'
<sistpoty> bddebian: damn
<bddebian> pkern: Gutsy.. It'll impress your other friends ;-P
<ScottK> bddebian: You're making an assumption there.
<ScottK> ;-)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Should that be trigger-rally.6.sgml ?
<sistpoty> bddebian: I guess so ;)
<sistpoty> (at least I only wrote one manpage iirc)
<bddebian> Gah, why did you rename this damn thing?
<sistpoty> hm... I didn't, at least not remembering that I did it *g*
<bddebian> Yeah, you renamed the source package from trigger to trigger-rally
<sistpoty> but I can't remember how to checkout right now as well, so don't give too much on my brain right now
<sistpoty> bddebian: I never renamed the source package, maybe only accidental *g*
<bddebian> Gah
<pkern> bddebian: I'm running Gutsy and it does not please me.
<pkern> It's a step back from where I came (Gentoo).
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Man this thing is all jacked up
* sistpoty hides
<slangasek> pkern: I don't get it, what's the punchline?
<bddebian> Actually goneri has a changelog entry stating he changed the package name to trigger-data but that isn't there either
* bddebian runs away
<sistpoty> bddebian: trigger-data is a separate package
<bddebian> Aye but that entry is in this package's changelog
<sistpoty> yes (I've finally managed to co that thing)
<bddebian> I've made some changes I haven't committed yet
<sistpoty> bddebian: the path of the data package changed, so I initially put a big fat warning in the changelog that you'll need to have both packages upload (versioned depends *should* be right) because otherwise trigger becomes an unmet dep
<sistpoty> damn team maintenance *g*
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Hmm, shouldn't the desktop file be trigger-rally.desktop now too? for consistency sake?
<bddebian> I realize it doesn't really matter but..
<sistpoty> right... I guess goneri broke it *g*
<bddebian> Well it's building currently, then I'll fix that
<bddebian> Ah goddamnit, he didn't rename the xpm files in rules either.. Grr
* pkern throws stones at trackerd.
<bddebian> Oh, he renamed it on the fly.. yuck
<sistpoty> well, at least there is nothing new upstream wise, as she's more busy than I am :)
<bddebian> Man, and they say us Ubuntu folks don't test anything.. ;-P
<\sh> so..dapper and feisty done...go for edgy
<sistpoty> haha
<sistpoty> bddebian: btw, you could kick out the get-orig-source rule, as it's a hack and due to sf no longer working
<sistpoty> due to the move to sf even
<bddebian> Done
<sistpoty> bddebian: thanks a lot!
<bddebian> Hey it built even.. :-)
<sistpoty> :)
* sistpoty remembers suddenly that he should add maps from fuddl to upstream svn
<bddebian> OMG
<bddebian> Well it's pretty lintian clean.  I'll fix a couple of the warnings
<sistpoty> damn, it *was* lintian clean sometime ago... what warnings do you get?
<sistpoty> (or IOW how time passes by, even in debian *g*)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Well the menu Action subsection is expected and nMU version crap.  But the ones I'll fix have to do with the menu icon filename.  No worries
<sistpoty> bddebian: well, don't care about NMU, just add yourself to the uploaders ;)
<sistpoty> just in case anyone wonders: the games team of debian is now the games team of ubuntu as well, so this discussion is not debian specific ;)
<bddebian> Aye :-)
<sistpoty> (but I guess it wasn't announced as this on an ubuntu ml yet *g*)
<ScottK> In that case...  http://www.zeograd.com/parse.php?src=hugof&path=0,1, looks like an interesting project for the Games team.  The svn snapshot is (AFAICT) distributable.
<pochu> Firefox can't find the server at www.zeograd.com.
<bddebian> Aye
<ScottK> Hmmm
<ScottK> Odd.  Seems to find it just fine for me.  Maybe I have it cached.
<\sh> ScottK, it's down ;)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I'll whine again later.
<bddebian> sistpoty: Do you want me to stick the package up somewhere, or just leave the changes in SVN ?
<sistpoty> bddebian: of course if you can find a sponsor (maybe pkern, *cough*, *cough*) that would be most excellent!
<bddebian> sistpoty: You mean you aren't a DD either??? ;-)
<sistpoty> bddebian: nope, I'm just a simple MOTU (not even a core-dev or anything, apart from a few days left as MC member *g*)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> shermann pts/0    :0.0             22:03    5:09m  0.60s  0.00s /bin/bash /home/shermann/bin/pbuilder-edgy-i386 build wzdftpd_0.7.2-4ubuntu0.1.dsc
<\sh> shermann pts/1    :0.0             22:04    3:13m  1.30s  0.00s /bin/bash /home/shermann/bin/pbuilder-feisty-i386 build wzdftpd_0.8.1-2ubuntu0.1.dsc
<\sh> shermann pts/2    :0.0             22:06    6:29m  2.18s  0.00s /bin/bash /home/shermann/bin/pbuilder-dapper-i386 build wzdftpd_0.6.1-1ubuntu1.1.dsc
* \sh is doomed
<bddebian> :-)
* \sh needs really new hardware at home..a lot
<sistpoty> well, "model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+" is enough for me, but my bandwith really sucks (dist-upgrading since a few hours now=
<Nightrose> \sh, pkern: just read you plan a keysigning session on sunday... - count me in ;-)  but please remind me on sunday again
<\sh> Nightrose, hehe
<\sh> ok...the three debdiffs are on LP... time to deal with my girl....:) good night :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: BTW, this team is kinda lame ;-)
<bddebian> Gnight \sh
<\sh> cu bddebian
<sistpoty> bddebian: haha
<ScottK> bddebian: It gets better.  Kmos is looking to contribute (not kidding).
<sistpoty> wow
<bddebian> ScottK: I know he keeps popping looking for a sponsor for tennix
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> bddebian: I'm certain it's up to his usual quality standards and will get the consideration it deserves.
<bddebian> Well no one looks at mine either so I'm not quite sure how to take that ;-)
<ScottK> Yes you are.  You're just nicer than I am.
<ScottK> I really am glad Python is readable, because I sure as heck can't remember what I did from one day to the next.
<pkern> Nightrose: Aye. I already put the snippets into my wallet. But I should fetch my Reisepass for a current picture. ;)
<bddebian> sistpoty: OK, now the damn thing is linda/lintian clean :-)
<sistpoty> hooray!
<bddebian> sistpoty: You forgot to beg for DD sponsors for the team ;-)
<sistpoty> haha
* pkern giggles
<pkern> sistpoty: University net rocks. :-P
<pkern> Only network-manager is... uh... bad.
<pkern> I need to get rid of trackerd and network-manager and to rebuild my kernel. And maybe I should reinstall Gutsy first. *cough* Too much to do.
<sistpoty> pkern: sure it does, but I have "feierabend" already *g* (downloading ubuntu beta to university with maximum speed was really nice)
* pkern is already whining when he only gets 2M/s here. ;)
<pkern> It's fun.
<sistpoty> pkern: 2M/s would be a dream for me... due to connection problems Nefkom (my provider) limited the rate to 2MBit/s, but I get much less from a.u.c though :(
<sistpoty> bddebian: read this?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o nixternal]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o nixternal]  by ChanServ
<bddebian> sistpoty: Whassat?
<sistpoty> bddebian: answer to your commit msg
<sistpoty> bddebian: imo it shouldn't need a transitional package, at least if the versioned depends of trigger is right. I guess noone would install trigger-data alone (which were the only corner case here)
<sistpoty> (repeating myself=
<sistpoty> bddebian: not too sure about trigger itself though
<bddebian> trigger has one though I'm not sure it's needed
<bddebian> Well trigger-rally now :)
<sistpoty> hehe, and I'm still fighting with sf svn here, it won't let me commit *g*
<bddebian> heh
<sistpoty> oh, it's taking really long, I guess I've succeeded with username/pw *g*
<sistpoty> now it's time to package a svn version of trigger-data, bddebian :P
<sistpoty> trigger-rally-data even (or whatever)
* lamont makes a vague attempt at guilt over turning aspectc++ into an ftbfs on all architectures (via a no-change upload), fails miserably.
<sistpoty> lamont: having tried to ask siretart about this yet?
<sistpoty> (not to break the package though *g*)
<siretart> lamont: what's the problem wiht aspectc++?
<siretart> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart, how was your vacation?
<siretart> vacation was great, thanks!
<sistpoty> cool, btw I'm cleaning up the pattern matcher of FAUmachine since two days ago, should be much more portable soon ;)
<sistpoty> (and it can read png files now :)
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> now we only need s.o. to implement that vnc stuff *g*
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-13
<siretart> just find a student to do that! :)
<sistpoty> hehe :)
<sistpoty> there is already a huge "diploma thesis are offered" sign at the posting of our chair ;)
<sistpoty> s/posting/something properly translated into english which means "aushang"/
<bddebian> sistpoty: Aye, working on that
<sistpoty> bddebian: you're kidding, are you?
<pkern> SDL error: Couldn't find matching GLX visual
<sistpoty> pkern: trigger?
<pkern> Aye.
<bddebian> sistpoty: Aye, should I not be?
<sistpoty> pkern: any shell output? (I know the code quite well, but OTOH I'm starting to get drunk right now)
<siretart> bddebian: you have experience with vnc and/or rdp?
<bddebian> little bit with rdp with MS term servers
<pkern> sistpoty: http://rafb.net/p/Rdujvx68.html
<siretart> like in, programming a client for them that implement a pattern matcher in it so that we can remote control the session?
<sistpoty> bddebian: sure, it's actually only two maps from fuddl that I added, but I guess I'd have sneaked these into the debian package by other means and then hint at upstream svn
<siretart> like in, say www mechanize?
<bddebian> sistpoty: Oh, you need a new tarball?
<sistpoty> bddebian: yes, but as I wrote, I'd rather sneak it in via uuencode or s.th., as the change isn't worth it
* bddebian is getting lost in this conversation :-)
<pkern> lost in translation
<sistpoty> bddebian: hehe, I meant that I'd (finally) update trigger svn on sourceforge with two maps added from fuddl (both in the data subdirectory)
<sistpoty> pkern: line 8 is strange for the new version in games svn (it should be /usr/share/games...)
<pkern> sistpoty: That's the gutsy one.
<sistpoty> pkern: nonetheless I believe that the real error comes somewhere from either your graphic driver or from
<pkern> Good point.
* pkern goes restarting X.
<sistpoty> + ~/.trigger/trigger.config (let me check which options)
<sistpoty> pkern: basically required[anything]  might be worth fiddling with, but I remember a bug report for ati, which I passed on in the past. For nvidia it should work (and does for me)
<sistpoty> the ati thingy of course didn't get fixed *g*
<bddebian> OK darn it, what do you want me to do ? :-)
<bddebian> Actually because of the package rename, they'll all hit NEW anyway won't they?
<lamont> siretart: aspectc++ was being special on hppa (looping in launchpad).  So I did a no-change upload to make hppa quit looping (seemed the easiest way to tickle launchpad).  so now instead of having feisty bits current in gutsy, it's out of date and ftbfs everywhere
<norsetto> oh well ... bed is in order
<sistpoty> bddebian: well, if you want to not draw negative attention from EddyP, I guess you should create a tarball for trigger-rally-data from the svn. If you want to keep it simple, just have it uploaded as is (and eventually write to fuddl to add his two maps which are now in upstream svn to the package himself))
<siretart> lamont: how could that loop happen?
* bddebian doesn't know who EddyP or fuddl are :-)
<bddebian> And if EddyP is Debian, I pretty much only get negative attention from them :-)
<lamont> siretart: I rather expect it was a bug in launchpad... dunno
<lamont> siretart: lacking source, I didn't debug it. :-)
<siretart> k
<sistpoty> bddebian: EddyP is (afaik) still waiting for DAM approval, but he used to comment on any strange commit in the past. fuddl is a friend of mine and siretart who's also in the games team (but no DD yet) and cares about nexuiz and friends. He sent me the two maps to add upstream wise
<siretart> I didn't work on aspectc++ lately since upstream (my former supervisor) keeps on promising a new release RSN. since over half a year now :/
<sistpoty> siretart: over a half year? that's nothing compared to FAUmachine :P
<lamont> siretart: and I didn't actually change the source, just bumped the version in debian/changelog and uploaded...
* siretart goes downstairs to visit fuddl and the others
<lamont> so it'd fail in rebuild testing as well
<sistpoty> lol
* siretart is currently on a local LUG event, preparing a talk right now
<siretart> lamont: I think aspectc++'s testsuite failed on hppa anyway, so *shrug*
<sistpoty> siretart: greet fuddl from me and tell him that his trigger maps are upstream now and he should import them himself for the games team to spare bddebian ;)
<bddebian> How do I just pull the data dir with svn ?
<bddebian> Just co http://foo/bar bar/data ?
<sistpoty> bddebian: not too sure, but iirc you can just export a subdirectory
<bddebian> yeah, that worked :-)
<bddebian> Oh, no it didn't
<bddebian> It pulled everything
<sistpoty> hm... I must admit that I also didn't look if the zip file for the data doesn't diverge from svn, so I guess just getting in a new upstream for now is also fine enough. (and it wouldn't fix the bug about new maps anyway since the reporter didn't send me any :()
<sistpoty> bddebian: oh, just saw it: co http://foo/bar/subdir ...
<sistpoty> bddebian: it's not cvs ;)
<bddebian> Uhm, it doesn't look anything like the existing tarball for trigger-data :-(
<sistpoty> well, nevermind then :(
<sistpoty> not too sure how keiko built the tarball then
<bddebian> OK, nevermind..  However I don't know where crap.obj, README.txt and README-stereo.txt came from :-)
<bddebian> I especially like crap.obj
<sistpoty> crap.obj is crap as the name said... wanted to remove that anyways. README* should be in trigger-rally though, coming from doc/ ?
<bddebian> No, in the current orig.tar.gz for trigger-data
<sistpoty> damn, well it's zip files as orig-sources after all, must have been any "windows magic" to get it right then *g*
<sistpoty> (which I guess is sorting out by hand=
<bddebian> Heh.  Well README and README-stereo are in /doc in the other package so probably not necessary?
<bddebian> Or should I just stop even trying?
<sistpoty> bddebian: hehe, if you feel like it, go ahead, but don't waste too much time with it, I'd say
<bddebian> I'm happy to do stuff I just don't need anyone getting pissed at me :)
<bddebian> Heya persia
<persia> hey bddebian
<sistpoty> haha, well I guess I should rather feel ashamed, since I should have done this stuff some time ago, but -ENOTIME (and currently -ENOBANDWITH and no remaining knowledge about games team packaging) hinder me quite a bit ;')
<sistpoty> hi persia
<persia> hi sistpoty
<bddebian> Someone just tell me what HAS to be in the orig.tar.gz.  Do I need a license file?
<sistpoty> bddebian: yes, always
<sistpoty> (so copy in gpl from top svn, if there's none in the subdir
<sistpoty> )+)
<bddebian> Actually, why is it a seperate tarball anyhow?
<persia> bddebian: You need: code for every binary (although some .png, .gif, and .jpeg are acceptable), licenses for everything (including data), and copyright attribution on at least a project-wide basis, if not for every file.
<pkern> For Debian it's every file.
<persia> bddebian: The md5sum or orig.tar.gz is supposed to match the md5sum on the upstream source, so that people who don't trust Debian/Ubuntu/MEPIS/etc. can verify we didn't change the code.
<sistpoty> bddebian: that's what it used to be, just zip-files, no svn and nothing more. And then the project moved to sourceforge after I contacted upstream (but not on my request though), which meant having the stuff in svn
<persia> pkern: Debian insists on copyright attribution for every file?  I've never seen copyright assertion for .png files in a Debian orig.tar.gz.
<sistpoty> so I guess its just the usual sign of a grown project ;)
<bddebian> persia: Well that's broken already
<bddebian> sistpoty: :)
<persia> bddebian: When repacking, ideally you include instructions (perhaps in the get-orig-source rule) that allow someone to reproduce without the orig.tar.gz.
<pkern> persia: Every source file. Now PNG aren't exactly the preferred form for modification neither.
<sistpoty> persia: when pulling from svn, you cannot match md5sums. and in debian it's not too bad to mangle the orig-tar-gz (in here it's a zip-file anyways)
<sistpoty> btw.: if I (as an upstream) would need to attribute *every* source file, I'd tell you to go to hell and learn about pointers first :P (readme -> license of my files)
<persia> sistpoty: My understanding was that when repacking, it was best practice to include an orig.tar.gz rule, and put the md5sums of the .zip file (or whatever) in debian/copyright, just to maintain the cryptographic trail.  I believe this all to be from Debian, rather than any Ubuntu policy.
* persia agrees with sistpoty about licensing *every* file
<bddebian> This is craziness then
<ScottK> What pitti, Mithrandir, and Riddell have told me is that while minor copyright holders aren't essential to be listed in debian/copyright, ALL licenses used in the package must be.
<persia> pkern: Find me a debian package with every .svg in the orig.tar.gz containing license and copyright attribution then.  I'll be surprised.
<sistpoty> persia: when repacking, the original trail won't help you match (as it won't tell you what changed), however and get-orig-source to build a tarball from a zip-file would (but not if the new tarball came from svn though ;)
<sistpoty> ScottK: that's right, but doesn't mean that I need to put a "this is GPL..." in every header
<bddebian> Well you guys have successfully scared me away from touching this :-)
<sistpoty> damnit *G*
* sistpoty is out for a smoke btw
<persia> sistpoty: I use `svn export -D $(DATE)` in get-orig-source when packaging a snapshot, just so that others can reproduce.  I suspect `svn export -r $(revision)` would also be acceptable.
<bddebian> sistpoty: Good idea :-)
<slangasek> pkern: um, no, there's no requirement of individual per-file copyright statements in Debian
<bddebian> Hmm, there is shit, not even a README.Debian in the current trigger-data package.  Of course it had a real tarball
<sistpoty> persia: sure, that's good practice (I guess using the revision would be better though), but you can also tell this via debian/copyright, or debian/changelog. It *should* be verifyible then.
* sistpoty is now finally out for a smoke :P
<persia> bddebian: Sometimes that gets put in debian/copyright.  From what I understand, putting it in README.Debian is now deprecated.
<mneptok> excuse me for a mo'
<mneptok> !ops
<ubotu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond or PriceChild
<persia> sistpoty: "*should* be verifyable" is really enough.  It's not like the truly diligent doesn't have a decent chance of replacing upstream .tar.gz files with modified versions anyway.
<persia> mneptok: Unless you're channel-specific, you might do as well with a /msg to ubotu
<mneptok> persia: yes, i know. but thanks. :)
<sistpoty> persia: sure, though I've often enough been diffing between svn checkouts and the "orig.tar.gz" though ;)
<persia> sistpoty: Well, not everyone follows best practice...
<bddebian> Nooo ;-)
<sistpoty> persia: right, I didn't write that I did it everytime ;)
<bddebian> Oh nice, he sent me a new adanaxis tarball
* persia does, but has only packaged 2 upstream versions, ever, so it hasn't been burdensome
<sistpoty> well, I rather spoke about reviewing packages... for trigger(-rally) I can commit as upstream, so it's easy enough to follow for me. And in code changes I'm most interested because that means for trigger that my patches got cleaned up *g*
<persia> sistpoty: You mean pulling back things from an upstream perspective?  People adding random unattributed patches to orig.tar.gz's just seems wrong for that use case.
<sistpoty> persia: not too sure what you mean by "pulling back" here, but if you mean to add changes to the orig.tar.gz, yes. however that of course shouldn't work w.o. notice
<sistpoty> (as it would be a new orig.tar.gz anyways then)
<persia> sistpoty: Ideally.  I think we agree, and are just confusing each other: I'm stopping now :)
<sistpoty> hehe, most probably ;)
* persia seeks others interested in a last-gasp attempt to clear http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs
<sistpoty> sorry, got to go to bed now, (actually 2 hours ago *g*)
<sistpoty> maybe tomorrow, if I find the time
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<persia> sistpoty: sleep well
<sistpoty> thx
<danm> Hello, I've accidentally uploaded a package to upload.ubuntu.com. It's called 'xca'. I forgot to specify my ppa account. Is it possible to remove it there?
<imbrandon> danm: are you a MOTU
<persia> danm: You should soon get a mail saying that the upload was Rejected (unless you're a member of ubuntu-dev).
<imbrandon> exactly
<imbrandon> sometimes they silently die, but still
<danm> ok. I'm not a MOTU.
<persia> danm: Don't worry about it then.  There'll be a log showing your attempt to upload, but there's nothing you need to do to clean up.
<danm> ah thanks.
<bddebian> pkern: You should join the games team *nudge* *nudge*
<pochu_> good night folks
<persia> Does anyone use clive?  I can't get it to work at all, regardless of whether I add the recommended RC patch.
<leonel> WHAT ????  icedtea  on gutsy universe ???
<persia> leonel: Why not?
<leonel> no no  this is GREAT !!!!!!
<leonel> didn't expected  till hardy
<leonel> WHOO HOO \o/
<persia> leonel: don't get too excited.  We're not supposed to do anything with it until the hardy cycle.  Consider it part of the build chain :)
<leonel> persia: right
<leonel> but .. this is  great news ..
<leonel> thank you all ..
<leonel> been waiting for java to be gpl  since ..  years ...
<pwnguin> icedtea?
<pwnguin> is that a codename for java7?
<minghua> It's the code name for the GPL'ed java from Sun added with various other parts that Sun didn't release under GPL.
<minghua> I _think_ it's java 6.
<superm1> it says java7 in the package names in universe
<persia> I believe it's currently a pre-7 version: 7 API, but not complete (beta 2?)  See http://iced-tea.org/wiki/Main_Page
<persia> Glah!  Anyone have thoughts on the feasibility of a snort package split including NEW processing to support bug #149341?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 149341 in snort "Snort is not starting in amd64 - gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149341
<minghua> persia: Why is a package split needed?
<persia> minghua: The plugins are Architecture: all, so they don't work for !i386
<slangasek> you mean the plugins are Arch: all when they shouldn't be?
<persia> slangasek: Yep.  See Debian bug #429642 for discussion
<ubotu> Debian bug 429642 in cjk "please update libkpathsea4-dev build-dependency" [Normal,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/429642
<persia> Um.  Debian bug #439642
<minghua> persia: Yeah, reading the Debian bug now, got it.
<ubotu> Debian bug 439642 in snort "Snort does not work on amd64, tries to load 32-bit libraries" [Grave,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/439642
<minghua> The Debian maintainer put those modules in snort-libraries.
<slangasek> "snort-libraries"?
<persia> slangasek: A NEW package.  That's why I ask: otherwise it's just an RC sync request.
<slangasek> snort-common-libraries, in Debian?
<minghua> slangasek: Yes, snort-common-libraries.  I was reading the debian/changelog, and it got the binary package name wrong.
<slangasek> ah, heh
<persia> Builds fine on our toolchain anyway.  I'll open the sync request, expecting rejection if NEW is not getting processed again before release.
<slangasek> time allowing, it seems like an obvious fix to accept
<slangasek> if the diff is sane
* persia has submitted bug #152205
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152205 in snort "Please sync snort 2.7.0-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152205
<bddebian> go persia, go persia :-)
<persia> bddebian: I've got two that completely stumped me.  One depends on Youtube and Google Video, and the other on eBay, which dependencies I've having issues with.  Wanna help?
<bddebian> I can try but man that sounds bogus :-)
<persia> bddebian: Debian bug #430433 and Debian bug #442369
<ubotu> Debian bug 430433 in clive "no longer works for Google video" [Grave,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/430433
<ubotu> Debian bug 442369 in esniper "esniper: unable to find auction --> solved in CVS" [Grave,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/442369
<persia> clive is a UVFe, but I've not been able to get either the gutsy or sid packages to work enough to complete the test report part.  I haven't dug into esniper.
<bddebian> So what do you want me to do?  Look at esniper or help with clive?
<persia> bddebian: I'm not going to make any progress with either of those, and there's all the "Serious" bugs to go...  Take your pick.  If you choose clive, I can comment about the patch.
<bddebian> Has the clive UVFe already been filed?
<persia> bddebian: No.  I only file the requests if I can test: otherwise it's just another bug :)
<bddebian> Hmm, doesn't look like it
<persia> Any xen people around?
* persia also gives up on Debian bug #444784
<ubotu> Debian bug 444784 in xenman "xenman doesn't run at all" [Grave,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/444784
<bddebian> Hmm, with clive I keep getting type 'exceptions.TypeError'>
<persia> bddebian: That was my problem.  I wonder if it's due to other Debian<->Ubuntu issues (e.g. python)
<persia> The annoying bit is that it's hard to test against the previous release of YouTube, to see if that error comes from the YouTube update or the clive change.
<bddebian> Does Debian still not do python2.5?  Maybe it's a 2.5 vs 2.4 issue?
<minghua> bddebian: Debian has 2.4.
<persia> bddebian: Does it work if you force python2.4?
<minghua> If it's really important, I can test on Debian unstable here.
<bddebian> It not important to me :-)
<persia> minghua: That'd be great.  We're comparing clive 0.2.0-1.1 and 0.2.1-1
<minghua> Okay.
<persia> bddebian: Bah.  It should be.  It's our new shiny release ;)
<bddebian> Here is the traceback I get:  http://pastebin.com/m4598fdc0
<minghua> Nah, it's universe.  ;-)
<bddebian> maybe a urllib2 issue?
<persia> minghua: Right.  Therefore noblesse oblige applies for MOTUs (in regards to packages)
<minghua> persia: clive 0.2.1-1 in Debian unstable works fine for a Google video here.
<persia> minghua: And clive 0.2.0-1.1 breaks?
<minghua> persia: Not tested yet.
<minghua> I don't see why 0.2.0-1.1 could work, though.
<persia> minghua: I'm expecting it not to work, but verifying the patch means it's just a python2.4 => python2.5 port, rather than also chasing the "cannot get the video" issue.
<minghua> persia: Sure, I'll test soon.  The video I'm downloading is a bit big, and I want to keep it. :-)
<bddebian> heh
<persia> minghua: No rush.  I'm not cool enough with python to port it anyway (or at least my facsimile of python probably shouldn't be uploaded this close to release)
* minghua goes to snapshot.d.n to hunt down the old clive package for now.
<bddebian> Heh, me either
<minghua> Err...
<minghua> Three blind people trying to get a map, it looks like.
<persia> minghua: Sure, but if we get the info, we can create a meaningful bug, and maybe someone will fix it :)
<persia> Any asterisk users around?
<bddebian> hah, asterisk is a pig.  I fixed rate-engine at one point and I think it's broken again
<persia> bddebian: asterisk-oh323 FTBFS.  The fix appears to be a CVS snapshot, which doesn't seem sane.  Do you feel like testing, or digging out the useful patch?
<minghua> Poor bddebian.
<bddebian> I'm going to have to go to bed very soon :-(
<persia> minghua: You want a couple?
<bddebian> heh
* persia suggests minghua look at porting the fix for Debian bug #367745 to Ubuntu
<ubotu> Debian bug 367745 in battery-stats "battery-stats: must use invoke-rc.d" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/367745
<minghua> persia: No, thanks. :-)
<persia> heh
* minghua doesn't touch packages he doesn't use.
<persia> minghua: Do you use anything on http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs ?
<bddebian> How the fluck am I going to test esniper.  I'm not bidding on anything
<persia> bddebian: That was my issue :)
<minghua> And you need to bid on something that ends auction before the freeze deadline, I suppose? :-)
* ajmitch should rework that page for hardy
<persia> minghua: Enough before that there is time to find, merge, and upload the patch too.
<persia> ajmitch: Can we have comment deletion?  Also, comments per-bug, rather than per-package?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Just fix all the bugs and you won't need it ;-P
<ajmitch> persia: I did have comment deletion, but it didn't work so well
<ajmitch> and I am changing it to per-bug
<minghua> persia: Hmm, I use gbdfed.
<ajmitch> since too many people have asked for that
<persia> ajmitch: Didn't work technically, or didn't work socially?
<persia> minghua: Great.  Thanks.  #444530 is all yours :)
<ajmitch> persia: 'delete' being done by HTTP GET is a Bad Thing :)
<minghua> persia: But Debian bug 444530 is already fixed in 1.2-3ubuntu1.
<ubotu> Debian bug 444530 in gbdfed "gbdfed: FTBFS: error: 'GtkFileSelection' undeclared" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/444530
<ajmitch> persia: so I turned that off for now..
<minghua> persia: One down.  What next?  ;-)
<persia> ajmitch: HTTP POST maybe?
<ajmitch> that would work, but I didn't have time to care about it, and noone really cared too much
<persia> minghua: Add a comment saying it's fixed, and hunt another one.  I find about 75% of them are already fixed.
* ajmitch was going to look at it again today
<persia> ajmitch: Understood.  This is much preferable to the version I was looking at immediately post auto-sync freeze.
<ajmitch> which was?
<persia> ajmitch: closer to http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html, but the CSS was different.
<ajmitch> right
<persia> And even that was better than the feisty release version: the grab links are very helpful.
* ajmitch has been experimenting with ajax stuff for work, maybe I could put a dropdown on each package to show a list of LP or debian bugs :)
<bddebian> ajax is cool
<ajmitch> when used properly
<bddebian> Like anything :-)
<imbrandon> man i dont think i've written this much php code in years
<ajmitch> imbrandon: have pity on people like me to do it every day
<persia> Could be nifty, but that's a lot of traffic.  For AJAX, I'd much prefer POST delete, and behind-the-scenes comment update so I didn't get bumped back to the top of the page.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe yea i used to , kinda wish i kept that job at times
<ajmitch> persia: the comments thing was the only part I'd intended to do
<minghua> persia: clive 0.2.0-1.1 is confirmed NOT able to download Google video, but seems to be working otherwise.
<ajmitch> fetching bugs would be interesting, but not that useful
<persia> minghua: Excellent.  Thanks for testing.
<minghua> persia: (i.e.: I got a curses dialog window saying it can't download the video.)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: dunno if you ever looked at wordpress it is quite nice code wise though
<imbrandon> even though i spent the last 6 hours hacking on it
<imbrandon> heh
* persia prepares a clive bug
<minghua> bddebian: It's quite hard to write cool code in Fortran 77.  I heard about COBOL as well. :-)
<imbrandon> cobol is nice for system bios's
<imbrandon> so i hear
<ajmitch> no, that's forth
<bddebian> heh
<imbrandon> serouisly ? i was always told it was cobol mostly for like pheonix and ami etc
<bddebian> I doubt that
<bddebian> It was a Business language
<bddebian> Common Business Object Language or some bullshit like that
<ajmitch> forth is used for open firmware
<imbrandon> no idea, i never used anything prior to C on x86 ( and only BASIC on the Atari 800, APPLE //e and C64 before that )
<persia> Actually, about clive, is there any reason not to force it to use python2.4?
<imbrandon> wow i would have thought it would be a asm/c mixture ajmitch
<imbrandon> shows what i know ;)
<bddebian> persia: If we knew that worked I suppose
<imbrandon> one simple question though someone in here is likely to know, is inline ASM part of plain ( ANSI ?? ) c ?
<persia> bddebian: It worked for minghua.  Do I need to do anything other than adjust XS-Python-Version: in debian/control?
<bddebian> Depends on the package but ideally that should work
<minghua> imbrandon: I think it is.  I have C reference manual handy, let me check.
<imbrandon> minghua: sweet, thanks
<minghua> imbrandon: No it's not.  "asm" is listed as "C++ reserved words" (for compatibility reasons, with word such as class) in the manual.
<imbrandon> hrm okie
<persia> Hrm.  Now I get http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40493/.
<persia> Nevermind.  I fixed it.  Thanks bddebian, minghua.
<bddebian> Well what was it man?
<persia> Down to 2 (two) grave bugs!
<persia> bddebian: #!/usr/bin/python -> #!/usr/bin/python2.4
<bddebian> Rockin'.  esniper and what else?
<persia> bddebian: xenman
<bddebian> Ah, that's hideous
<ajmitch> persia: good work
<bddebian> Oh I wouldn't touch xen stuff with a 20 foot pole :-)
<bddebian> Poke zul, he's the only xen master I know of
<persia> ajmitch: It's mostly been research: most of it is fine, just not reported.
<minghua> bddebian: Go set up an auction so that persia can test bidding on it using esniper. :-)
<persia> bddebian: I think it's fixed, but it's a matter of comparing zul's work to upstream/debian.  If xenman launches, there's no bug.  I just can't seem to get enough of xen happy enough to do anything.
<persia> bddebian: What do you have that I want to buy?
<ajmitch> persia: so, should the next revision of this page give some way to mark a bug as done, in some css style?
<persia> minghua: We'd have to register, no?
<minghua> persia: I suppose yes.
<ajmitch> that way you'd be able to see quickly what needs checked
<bddebian> I have shitloads of programming books I've never gotten through ;-)
<persia> ajmitch: That'd be great.  There's a lot of comments indicating that someone requested a sync, or is working on it, but the followup isn't automatic.  It'd be extra nice if we could enter LP bugs or revision candidate versions, and have it track the status of those.
<bddebian> I have the whole TaoCP set and I can barely get through the first few chapters :-(
<persia> minghua: Do you have an ebay account?
<ajmitch> persia: that would be trickier, but possible, I guess
<minghua> persia: Yes I do.
<persia> ajmitch: Depends on how much time / thought you have.  Just a flag would be nice (although it likely won't impact gutsy much).
<persia> minghua: Could you please sell bddebian a used, and somewhat tarnished copy of TaoCP?
<minghua> I think we are trying too hard to fix esinper, though.
<persia> minghua: Too hard?  Why?
<bddebian> hah, tarnished copy :-)
<minghua> persia: I don't have a TaoCP copy.
<persia> minghua: That's find, bddebian will gladly donate his to the auction :)
<persia> s/find/fine/
<bddebian> heh
<minghua> persia: I was really joking when I suggested bddebian to set up an auction...
<bddebian> Frickin' set cost me like $400 and I'm too stupid to even get through them :'-(
<minghua> bddebian: You sure you want to do this?  I've never sold anything before.
<persia> minghua: It's a great way to test.  I can't think of another one that works.  Although, perhaps selling something of less general interest might be better, as TaoCP might get lots of other bids, raising the price of the commission for the experiment.
<bddebian> Got some shiny keychain? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: give up the hurd & start reading
<minghua> What about a gutsy CD?
* persia seconds a gutsy CD
<bddebian> I haven't done much of squat for the Hurd in a while :-(
<minghua> bddebian: Don't expect my really sending the item to you...
<persia> minghua: Just specify electronic delivery.
<bddebian> No way, I want it!! :)
<minghua> electronic delivery for a keychain?  or a CD?
<minghua> Hmm, what about gutsy ISO image file? :-P
<minghua> And a pre-order at that.
<bddebian> Whatever but if we are going to try it, lets do it, I have to get my old arse to bed.. :-)
<persia> bddebian: Just to make sure, you have an Ubuntu compilation with the esniper fixes ready, right?
<minghua> Okay.  But maybe it'll take me a while to set up an auction...
<bddebian> persia: I took the Debian package.  It has the fixes, no?
<persia> bddebian: Should, but it's a snapshot.  Is there a tighter patch that doesn't need UVFe?
<bddebian> I didn't go that far since I didn't know how to test it
<persia> I think it's safe to assume the debian version works (the maintainer should have tested).  I don't think a snapshot is a problem, but it might be extra work to get it approved (vs. pulling a patch).
<imbrandon> wow i just realized this release will mark 3 years of ubuntu for me :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: you're old
<imbrandon> err i guess starting 3 year, so 2.5
<imbrandon> i guess
<imbrandon> ajmitch: heh
<persia> imbrandon: Warty start?
<imbrandon> end of warty
<imbrandon> very end
<persia> That was my start also.  Around when I discovered that bddebian would upload all the fixes I wanted to see in Debian without waiting for the maintainer to have an opinion :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i went from SuSE to this new fanagled "ubuntu" thing from a slashdot post about kbfx and someone had it packaged so i installed to try it, and then started fixing bugs in it from almost day one ( kbfx ) , only 6 months to almost a year later did i even look at debian ;)
<minghua> Argh.  Ebay wants to charge me $0.20 for listing.
<imbrandon> minghua: craigslist ftw, i LOVE craigslist ( and its free )
<persia> imbrandon: craigslist doesn't help us test esniper :(
<imbrandon> ahhh ok
<minghua> imbrandon: Yeah... if you can test esniper on craigslist...
<imbrandon> heh i thought you were selling something
<persia> imbrandon: Do you have a better suggestion for testing?  That's the best we could develop.
<imbrandon> hrm
<persia> (selling an Ubuntu CD)
<imbrandon> put ebay.com in your host file and look at the http requests ?
<minghua> persia, bddebian: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140167990751
<imbrandon> hehe that would take a bunch of mockup work though
<bddebian> persia: heh
<StevenK> Or tcpdump
<minghua> bid away.
<StevenK> Hah. "I'll e-mail you an ISO when Gutsy is released."
<minghua> I'm selling an ISO file by the way, to make sure I can deliver...
<StevenK> (Basically)
* persia tries to figure out how to bid
<imbrandon> hahah
<StevenK> persia: Sign in, Place bid
<imbrandon> i just made a .50 bid ( holtsclawb )
<persia> bddebian: Are you sniping yet?
<minghua> I suspect you can only snipe just before the auction ends...
<minghua> Thanks for the business, imbrandon. :-)
<bddebian> Do you have to use an auction file?  I don't see any way to specify the auction # otherwise??
<bddebian> Sorry gang, I have family coming over tomorrow, I have got to get to bed.  Good luck.
<persia> In the clive source, there is a ./scripts/clive with #!/usr/bin/env python at the top.  When I build, this generates /usr/bin/clive with #!/usr/bin/python at the top.  I tried changing the source to #!/usr/bin/python2.4, but the result was still #!/usr/bin/python in /usr/bin.  Any suggestions on how to block this apparent auto-adjustment?
<minghua> persia: So I'll just leave the auction there (it ends in 22 hours).  Good luck fixing esniper.
<persia> minghua: Thanks for hosting.  I'm hoping for another volunteer before then, but I'll give it a shot there's not a solution in a while.
* persia advertises the desireability of fixing Debian bug #442369 in esniper before the gutsy release to all ebay using developers and contributors
<ubotu> Debian bug 442369 in esniper "esniper: unable to find auction --> solved in CVS" [Grave,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/442369
<minghua> I still think we are trying too hard to fix this bug, but I appreciate persia's perseverance.
<persia> minghua: There's only three left.  I'm chasing one, zul is the only person qualifies to have an opinion on another, and esniper is the last.
<minghua> persia: Why only three?  I see plenty on ajmitch's list.
<minghua> Or are we talking about only "grave" status?
<persia> minghua: Three "Grave".  I went through the "serious" ones quickly yesterday, it most of them look like FTBFS issues, most of which have been addressed.  I'm expecting to finish commenting them, and determining which needs to get fixed today.
<persia> s/which needs/which need/
<persia> Any python packagers around?
<Fujitsu> persia: I've done a bit of it in the past, but am not at all an expert.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm trying to force python2.4 for clive (which doesn't work with 2.5).  I've set XS-Python-Version: 2.4 in debian/control, Build-Depends: on python2.4-dev, and set PYVERS=2.4 in debian/rules.  The source scripts/clive starts with a header of "#!/usr/bin/env python" which is replaced by the build system to "#!/usr/bin/python".  I'd prefer it was "#!/usr/bin/python2.4", but manually changing this in the source doesn't seem to affect the bi
<StevenK> persia: "doesn't seem to affect the ..."
<Fujitsu> binaries, I presume.
* persia still hates buffers: "...doesn't seem to affect the binary.  Any ideas?"
<StevenK> I'm guessing the build system changes it with a patch
* Fujitsu tries to build it.
<persia> StevenK: debian/patches is empty, and there's no patch rule.  Also, there's no complaint about fuzz if I change the line manually.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm working from http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/clive/clive_0.2.1-1.dsc
* persia also can't find any patch indicators in ./setup.py
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah, I've only got 0.2.0-1.1.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm fairly sure it has the same problem, so that should be fine.
<persia> (at least the error message when launching is the same)
<Fujitsu> persia: Yeah, it does override it somehow.
* Fujitsu attacks.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  Let me know if you can get a working debdiff: I want to request a UVFe :)
<Fujitsu> persia: It must be something in setuptools, but I haven't dealt with that much.
* Fujitsu searches the web.
<imbrandon> there hopefully i have rid myself off joins/parts/quits etc
<Fujitsu> persia: Running setup.py from a clean tarball still overrides it, so it must be some setuptools magic.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's what I thought (and why I'm confused(
<persia> Thanks for the confirmation.  I'll dig into it a bit more.
<imbrandon> ugh, when will people stop refering to Microsoft as M$ of Microshaft or similar, it just makes them look ..... well not good imho
<highvoltage> imbrandon: indeed
<highvoltage> what's ironic is, it's the type of people that would call me a linux zealot and call me fanatical who would use such words
<highvoltage> it just discredits them completely
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> we need a "homer" for ubuntu that acts like "clippy" for win95
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> highvoltage: check out my last post http://www.imbrandon.com/
<highvoltage> imbrandon: I don't think you're completely right though
<highvoltage> imbrandon: calling Microsoft name isn't a characteristic of the Ubuntu community, it's only a small, loud percentage of people who do that
<ajmitch> usually a very vocal minority
<highvoltage> indeed
<highvoltage> but I think it's a bit unfair to label the Ubuntu community as namecallers, especially when the vast majority of people are *very* decent.
<DarkMageZ> but the problem is that because of those who do, it makes the majority look bad as well.
<highvoltage> DarkMageZ: yes, although that doesn't make it right to generalise the entire community
<highvoltage> then you could just as well say that the entire ubuntu community is racist, sexist, elitist, etc, just because there's been some isolated cases that's been thrown out of proportion
<DarkMageZ> he wasn't saying everyone was guilty tho. he was saying that there are people.
<highvoltage> yeah
* highvoltage is just a bit over-defensive of the ubuntu community
<DarkMageZ> i'd like to see the name calling & propaganda (from both sides) to stop. it's like smoke, and the sooner it clears completely then the sooner everyone can get to fighting on a pure product quality level.
<RainCT> Hi
<persia> I'm trying to get a package to use python2.4 instead of python2.5.  My last problem is that distutils is installing a script, and performing the standard interpreter magic during installation, changing "#!/usr/bin/python2.4" to "#!/usr/bin/python".  I understand that distutils can take an option --executable to modify the magic, but I've been unable to determine how this should be represented in setup.py (or debian/rules).  Does anyone have a sug
<Fujitsu> persia: Your message was truncated again.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<persia> Basically, distutils has a script function, which will install the named files in $target/bin, and update the interpreter to be the interpreter running at installation time.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<persia> There is an argument "--executable" which can control which executable is used when adjusting the interpreter for the script.
<persia> I can stuff that into setup.py (but don't know how), or I can ignore python, and just install the file.
<ajmitch> persia: DEB_PYTHON_INSTALL_ARGS_ALL += --executable
<ajmitch> if it's cdbs :)
<ajmitch> I don't understand what you're asking about stuffing things into setup.py
<pochu> wow soren, I wanna a piece of cake :-)
<persia> ajmitch: Excellent.  Thank you.  It's not CDBS, but I can extract from there.  (I thought I needed to stuff setup.py because setup.py appears to be calling distutils, but my knowledge of python packaging is particularly weak).
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Sticking --executable on the end of setup.py's build or install targets doesn't seem to be working.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: that's unfortunate - is setup.py being called with python2.4?
<Fujitsu> Ah, wait, I think that worked...
<Fujitsu> Why would it only work in 2.4!?
<ajmitch> because it's picking up the python version to use from the version used to run setup.py?
<Fujitsu> Oh, you stupid distutils. It won't rebuild it if the destination doesn't exist.
<Fujitsu> So adding --executable does work.
<ajmitch> :)
<persia> Just to make sure I understand (in case I ever encounter this again), arguments passed to distutils should be added to setup.py in debian/rules, but distutils tries to be extra smart, and checks to make sure you really mean it when you provide them?
<ajmitch> distutils is pretty special
<rick_h> anyone around? Wondering if my package I'm trying to do only has /usr/share files in it if it points to a messed up rules file?
<persia> rick_h: It can be a lot of different things.  How to you build your package?
<rick_h> I did the manual process of creating the debian dir and the main files of control/etc in a newly downloaded source
<rick_h> I'm just thinking I cheated by grabbing a control from a similiar package
<rick_h> it's a pidgin plugin my friend asked if I could do
<persia> rick_h: No, that's not a bad thing.  One just has to be careful.  When you build the binary, do you use debuild locally, or a build system?
<rick_h> I did dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<rick_h> but when I view the file listing of the resulting .deb it only use /usr/share/Changelog and such
<persia> rick_h: That's what debuild does :)  While generally I'll recommend you'd get more reproducible results with sbuild or pbuilder, the way you've done it makes hunting down the issue much easier.
<persia> In debian rules, are you using debhelper, cdbs, or just a raw makefile?
<rick_h> I think I'm getting something. I decided to try to go the debhelper path and it won't build with errors I didn't get doing it manually
<rick_h> the rules file was just a makefile I believe
<persia> rick_h: A rules file is always a makefile, but many packages use debhelper rules files, where most of the rules call debhelper helpers in different ways, and some packages use CDBS, which does extra make magic.
<persia> For any debian/rules file, the rule that actually prepares for the .deb is the install: rule.  For debhelper, the two interesting commands are usually $build-system install and dh_install.
<persia> So, you can test to see what it's doing by running `debian/rules install` from the package directory.  You'll want to have to put things in either debian/tmp/usr/... or debian/packagename/usr/...
<rick_h> ok, I see that. The one I copied from is a debbuilder rules file
<rick_h> ok, that's good to know and makes sense
<persia> So, if you call the install: rule, what does your package do?
<rick_h> well, I get a bunch of output
<rick_h> I'll try to pastebin it
<rick_h> http://paste.avwsystems.com/paste/48
<persia> rick_h: line 20 appears to be installing things in /home/rharding/packaging/musictracker/musictracker-0.4.1_manual/debian/pidgin-musictracker/usr/lib/pidgin/.  Do you see files there?
<persia> umm..  rather home/rharding/packaging/musictracker/musictracker-0.4.1_manual/debian/pidgin-musictracker/ (sorry)
<rick_h> ok, yea, the files are there
<rick_h> but when I look at the .deb and the files included and they're not there
<persia> That's OK.  We're not done looking yet :)  At this point, you can be certain that 1) your upstream build system is doing the right thing, and 2) Your debian/install file is taking care of the missing bits.
<persia> I'm presuming this is an architecture-dependent package.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
<rick_h> yea, it is
<persia> The next place to look is the binary-arch rule.  This should contain information about actually creating the deb.  When you call that, does it show what's happening?
<rick_h> ok, in over my head. "binary-arch" rule? do you mean this section of the rules file? http://paste.avwsystems.com/paste/49
* Hobbsee stabs mneptok.
<persia> rick_h: No worries.  it looks deep, but there's lots of rocks :)  That's the rule.
<rick_h> ok, so how am I "calling" that part of the rule to check it?
<persia> You mentioned that you had the changelog, so dh_installchangelogs ChangeLog probably did the right thing.  Try calling the rule, and seeing what happens.  At a first guess, I suspect that this rule is installing to debian/tmp/
<rick_h> Yea, the changelog I created from scratch with dch --create
<rick_h> what I'm missing is that I ran the ./debian/rules install and have that output. Now you're saying to "call this rule"
<rick_h> is that different from what I did before?
<rick_h> oh duh, I see...each of those is a runtime option
<persia> rick_h: Sorry.  `debian/rules binary-arch`
<rick_h> I follow ya, so there's this line in the output which seems to explain why the files are in the package structure
<rick_h> test -z "/usr/lib/pidgin" || mkdir -p -- "/home/rharding/packaging/musictracker/musictracker-0.4.1_manual/debian/pidgin-
<rick_h> musictracker/usr/lib/pidgin"
<rick_h> then again, /usr/lib/pidgin is ls-able from my chroot
<rick_h> http://paste.avwsystems.com/paste/50
<rick_h> that's the output of binary-arch
<lamego> rick_h, are you working on a musictracker piding plugin ?
<persia> This looks like line 20 of the install: rule from before.  Is it different?  Also, the -z test is whether the string is empty, so -z "/usr/bin/pidgin" is always false.  I suspect it was originally written as -z $(which pidgin) just to verify that pidgin was available.
<rick_h> packaging it
<lamego> rick_h, have you checked http://www.getdeb.net/app.php?name=pidgin-musictracker ?
<rick_h> of course my friend saw I've been trying to learn to package and hit me up
<lamego> ok :)
<persia> lamego: Is source available from there?
<rick_h> heh, no...I didn't look
<lamego> persia, yes, it was packaged by me, all getdeb packages have the source available
<persia> lamego: I just don't see a link from that page.  How do I download it?
<lamego> http://www.getdeb.net/release.php?id=1562, Developers: Source, Diff
<lamego> I need to add the source and diff links to the app entry page
<rick_h> I see src/diff links on the page
<lamego> it is, on the release, not on the app entry :)
<rick_h> oic
<persia> Ah.  I had thought that the links to 1562 and 1563 would give me downloads :)
<persia> lamego: I like your debian/rules :)
<lamego> well, I like clean cdbs rules, something that you can read on a few lines ;)
<persia> rick_h: You've a choice.  You can grab lamego's debian rules, or keep investigating your build issue.  Which would you like?
<rick_h> well, my point is to learn so I'll keep playing
<rick_h> where did you find his rules?
<lamego> http://www.getdeb.net/archive/pi/pidgin-musictracker_0.4.1-1~getdeb1.diff.gz
<lamego> debian/rules
<rick_h> ok, in the debdiff
<persia> Actually, in the diff.gz.  A diff.gz represents the distribution variance from upstream.  A debdiff represents the differences between two distribution revisions.
<rick_h> ok
<rick_h> so those what, 7ish lines are the rules file?
<persia> rick_h: Yes.  That's an example of a CDBS rules file.  When they work, they are very small.  When they don't work, the investigation requires a deep understanding of make.
<rick_h> ah, ok
<rick_h> I haven't gotten to trying out anything with cdbs yet
<lamego> they should be 4 lines, forgot to remove the template extra lines :P
<rick_h> ok, so I can't really use this one to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong then
<persia> rick_h: Nope.  If you want to get it packaged quickly, using lamego's code will help.  If you want to understand what went wrong, troubleshooting yours is probably better.
<rick_h> ok, I'll keep at mine then
<rick_h> nothing like beating your head on the wall doing things the hard way to tech you :-)
<persia> So, looking at your ouput, it runs the install rule (the beginning is very similar to what we saw before), and then it runs all the debhelper stuff (from around line 70)
<rick_h> ok
<rick_h> so the files required are put in that long subdir and debhelper isn't picking them up?
<persia> It's safe to ignore the first bit, as you already reviewed to make sure the files were being put where you wanted them.  Most of the debhelper lines are reporting "Compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated.".  Do you have a debian/compat file?
<persia> rick_h: Right.
<rick_h> so where *should* the files be going that debhelper likes to see them?
<rick_h> there's a make rule in the rules file: $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/pidgin-musictracker
<persia> rick_h: You've put them in a fine place: many packages do it that way :)
<rick_h> ah, ok
<persia> Now the ChangeLog was installed in your deb, so you'll want to hunt in the debian/ directory to see where that was installed.
<lamego> rick_h, what I found strange, is that, this particular software uses a standard autoconf build rule, if you used the default templates even using debhelper it should work "out of the box"
<lamego> erm, find
<rick_h> ok, the files that made it to the package are in the debian/tmp dir
<rick_h> while the files I NEED are in debian/$package/...
<persia> rick_h: Great.  Now, you have a couple choices.  I'll recommend you man debhelper, and read the "Package build directories" section for some background.
<rick_h> ok
<persia> Essentially, you want to verify that the binary package name in debian/control is pidgin-musictracker, and if so, you can either reset DESTDIR (or just delete the line), or add -p to all the rules that you want to apply to your package specifically.
<rick_h> ok, thanks. I'll check that out
<rick_h> the only thing in debian/control I guessed at is that I made both the source and package names pidgin-musictracker even though I downloaded the source as just musictracker
<rick_h> does that matter at all?
<persia> rick_h: Ideally you want the source package name to match upstream (and to match the base directory).  The binary packages can be whatever you want, although there are guidelines for some things (such as libraries begin with lib, etc.)
<rick_h> ok
<rick_h> thanks for the time/help
<persia> rick_h: No problem.  Good luck, and come back here if you have other questions.
<lucas> ajmitch: are you still active? your Debian packages seem to need a lot of love
<Hobbsee> lucas: he'll be sleeping atm
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/bugs/152333 < worthy of freeze exception?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152333 in dbus-glib "gajim suggests dbus-glib which is not available" [Undecided,New] 
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: should be fine.
<pochu> Nafallo: looks sane to me, but I'm noone :)
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: all unmet deps stuff should be fine
<Hobbsee> assumign ti doesnt require mass changes.
<Nafallo> kewl. I'll work on it then.
<soren> pochu: It's pretty darn good, actually :)
<Nafallo> if I can find what the package is called now ;-)
* TheHobbit bows to the masters of the universe;)
<TheHobbit> I found a little dependace problem in mmm-mode package (and in others as well...) I *think* to have solved it and I posted a debdiff together with the bug, could someone review it? (bug is #152348)
<persia> bug #152348
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152348 in mmm-mode "on feisty, the mmm-mode package forces installing emacs21 instead of emacs22" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152348
* persia thought that was already fixed
<Hobbsee> persia: i've let thru a whole bunch of your uploads, btw
<TheHobbit> persia, I was surprised it wasn't
<persia> Hobbsee: Excellent.  More to come :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Can you do sync requests as well?
<Hobbsee> nope
<Hobbsee> heh, i knew someone would be asking that reallys oon now :P
<persia> Hobbsee: congrats, btw.
<Hobbsee> thanks
<TheHobbit> persia, but I was happy it wasn't, giving me a bite size bug to fix ;)
<persia> TheHobbit: That looks sane.  There's a couple administrative things you'll want to do:
<persia> 1)  Link the bug to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=433691
<ubotu> Debian bug 433691 in mmm-mode "Update to support emacs22" [Minor,Open] 
* TheHobbit wallops his head, I forgot to look in debian bugs
<persia> 2) subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors group to request sponsored upload
<persia> 3) Set the importance and status as appropriate
<TheHobbit> will do
<TheHobbit> thank you persia
<persia> 4) modify the target distribution in the changelog to point to the current devlopment distribution ("gutsy")
<TheHobbit> ok, lets start....
<persia> Also, I'm not sure about depending on xemacs21-basesupport (>= 2003.11.13-1) if you want to use emacs > emacs21, but I don't really know much about emacs packaging.
<persia> That's all I see.
<TheHobbit> I do not use xemasc, so I'm not sure
<TheHobbit> but xemacs does not furnish 'emacsen' as emacs?? packages do
<persia> TheHobbit: It might be correct: I don't see an xemacs22, but ideally you'd want to test your new candidate also against xemacs, just to be sure.
<TheHobbit> ok persia
<TheHobbit> persia, I cannot see how to change bug importance... Is marked as read-only in the edit form
<persia> TheHobbit: My apologies, but I found one more thing.  On the overview page for mmm-mode (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mmm-mode/) it shows a 0.4.8-4, so you might want to look at that.
<persia> If you can't change bug importance, don't worry about it now.
<TheHobbit> persia, the error is still there
<TheHobbit> Il do the patching on 0.4.8-4, then follow your advice on the other points
<persia> TheHobbit: That's best.  If you prepare a 0.4.8-4ubuntu1, there's a (small) chance it may be accepted for gutsy.  Given that the RC is out, it may be that you'll need to respin for hardy.
<TheHobbit> persia, a stupid question, may be.... but wich bug number must I write in control? debian bug # or ubuntu?
<persia> You'll want to put the LP number, and make sure your syntax matches "(LP: #nnnnnn)"\
<TheHobbit> LP?
<pochu> LP == Launchpad
<persia> TheHobbit: LaunchPad
<TheHobbit> ok, so Close LP: #xxxx)?
<TheHobbit> or (LP: ...)?
<pochu> 'LP: #nnnn' is enough. But you can add Closes or brackets...
<persia> pochu: You don't need parentheses?
<pochu> persia: nope.
<pochu> And 'LP: #nnnn, #nnnn, #nnnn' is allowed too.
<persia> Cool!  My keyboard will last longer.
<pochu> persia: this one is funny :) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker/+bug/138778/comments/7
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 138778 in tracker "tracker doesn't find results for email address" [Low,Fix released] 
<persia> pochu: And that worked for all those bugs?
<pochu> yep
* persia would have had lots of - lines under * New Upstream Version, detailing the fixes for each one
* persia seeks someone to do a merge to fix CVE-2007-5300 for gutsy.  Patch is available in http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/wzdftpd/wzdftpd_0.8.2-2.1.dsc
<ubotu> Off-by-one error in the do_login_loop function in libwzd-core/wzd_login.c in wzdftpd 0.8.2 and earlier allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (daemon crash) via a long USER command that triggers a stack-based buffer overflow.  NOTE: some of these details are obtained from third party information. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5300)
* persia retracts search effort - someone already volunteered.
* persia wonders if there is a public URL to see the list of uploads awaiting approval
<Hobbsee> there is
<Hobbsee> in fact, there are 2.
<Hobbsee> persia: same as teh new queue, but unnaproved, isntead of new
<persia> Hobbsee: URL?  I want to see if wzdftpd 0.8.2-2ubuntu2 is waiting...
<ScottK> persia: The actual regex is for LP: #nnnn so I think pochu's example was too abreviated, but the () is definitely not required technically.
<Hobbsee> persia: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?batch=500 is the new queue
<Hobbsee> select the one you awnt in the dropdown
* persia always used https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=0
<persia> Is it queue_state=1?  If so, I get an access denied error.
<Hobbsee> persia: same url, but batch 500 shows all 500 of them :)
<Hobbsee> yes, it is
<persia> Ah.  batch shows all states?  Thanks.
<Hobbsee> no, it doesnt
<Hobbsee> it just shows more than the first 25
<StevenK> No, batch shows everything on one page, not all states
<Hobbsee> no, dont time out on me launchpad.
<persia> Hrm.  I think there's still a permission thing.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?batch=500 shows empty for me.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks for the confirmation.
<Hobbsee> persia: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text= ?
<Hobbsee> oh, it might only be on edge.
<superm1> Hobbsee, i'm on edge and i'm denied to that page too
<Hobbsee> oh, i wonder if that's still non-public.
<Hobbsee> persia: superm1 the other link (not updated quite as regularly) is http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/unapproved/
<superm1> Hobbsee, probably.  I get "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. You are logged in as Mario Limonciello."
<persia> "Not allowed here", "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.".  Oh well, perhaps I miss a couple, or send some dups.  No worries.
<Hobbsee> superm1: odd.
<Hobbsee> persia: i *think* that's updated every 5 min, but i'm uncertain on that piont
<Hobbsee> i thought i remembered being able to view that page before tonight, maybe it was only new, and i didnt try unnaproved..
<persia> Hobbsee: You were in certain teams before tonight...
<Hobbsee> persia: it shouldnt require release to view, and admin to accept, surely...
<Hobbsee> i would have expected it to be release for both
<persia> Also, thanks.  5 minute resolution is surely enough.
<Hobbsee> sorry, admin fro both
<TheHobbit> ok, everithing is done except requiring "sponsored upload"
<persia> TheHobbit: So, you've cleaned up the debdiff, retargeted to gutsy, and tested against xemacs?
<blueyed> StevenK: do you think bug 152376 is sane?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152376 in virtualbox-ose-modules "Load kernel driver (vboxdrv) during boot" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152376
<TheHobbit> except I can not be sure about the >= 2003.11.13-1 part for xemacs
<persia> TheHobbit: That's fine.  If you tested against current, and it worked, leaving the versioned dependency is the safe thing to do (especially as you're only touching the packaging).
<TheHobbit> also, I do not know packaging enough to know if I couldn't suppress emacs21 and emacs-snapshot, as they corresponds to virtual package emacsen
<persia> TheHobbit: So, now you'll want to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.  You can see the current queue from https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/, and a sponsor will upload if the have time before the release, and believe your change needs to be in gutsy.  Don't be discouraged if it doesn't get in: we're extra careful this close to release.
<TheHobbit> persia, I choosen ubuntu, among other consideration, exactly because you are that carefull
<TheHobbit> by "subscribe to" you mean join the team at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors ?
<pwnguin> uh
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> subscribe the team to the bug
<Hobbsee> the team tells you not to join it if you're not a MOTU yourself.
<Hobbsee> as will i, in my rejection email, if you do decide to try.
<persia> TheHobbit: On the upper left in the bug window, there should be a link "Subscribe someone else".
<Hobbsee> that must be why a whole lot of people are trying to join
<Hobbsee> i've always wondered why, but assumed it's just from curiousity, and wanting to be a part of more teams.
<TheHobbit> ah.... now I understand :) Sorry,
<Hobbsee> even with the warnings on the page being blatantly obvious.
<Hobbsee> perhaps its' just badly worded.
* persia looks
<TheHobbit> Hobbsee, the warn is obvious, that's why I didn't and asked again instead:)
<Hobbsee> TheHobbit: :)
<Hobbsee> TheHobbit: obviously it's unclear enough for people to be asking in the first place though
<TheHobbit> Hobbsee, what's new in that?
<Hobbsee> new in which, sorry?
<TheHobbit> no, sorry
<TheHobbit> I didn't understand your remark at first reading
<Hobbsee> ahh
<TheHobbit> to much foreing languages at the same time do not help
<Hobbsee> disclaimer:  i'm one of the admins of the sponsorship team
* TheHobbit is talking in italian with his brother, chatting in french with a girl and in english over there....
<Hobbsee> hehe :)
<persia> me suggests "This team offers sponsoring for the 'universe' component of the archive,  Please subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to any bugs for which you wish to request sponsorship.  If you have been advised you need to join a team to assist with Ubuntu development, please investigate ubuntu-universe-contributors.  This team is restricted to developers: if you have questions, please ask in #ubuntu-motu on IRC or ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com.  M
<persia> Blah.  Sorry.  I'll pastebin.
* Hobbsee recently read a bug report in french, + a dpkg log.  does that count?
* Hobbsee speaks absolutely zilch french.
* persia suggests http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/40552/
<Hobbsee> persia: thanks
* TheHobbit speaks better french than he does speak english.....
<persia> Hobbsee: If you can figure out how to make "ubuntu-universe-contributors" a link to that team page, it would be even better.
<TheHobbit> luckly enough, since I teached CS for 11 years in french:D
<Hobbsee> hm, might work via wiki-style
<Hobbsee> will have to look later
* TheHobbit thanks again you all
<TheHobbit> see you
<ScottK> StevenK, soren, or zul: Around?
<Hobbsee> stevenk's long asleep, no idea on the others
<ScottK> Well I think we need to discuss Universe freezes again and so was hoping to see who else was about.
<persia> Should I stop pushing things?
<ScottK> persia: No.
<ScottK> persia: I'm discussing now so we don't suprise people on Monday.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.  Good.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: How much longer are you going to be up?
<Hobbsee> not long
<lamego> there is too much discussion about freezes on such a release critical period, those things should be properly defined at the release cycle beginning :P
<Hobbsee> lamego: yeah, well
<ScottK> Hobbsee: They've had 5 minutes. so I guess let's discuss...
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I think we need to assume (based on the incomplete information we have) that the RM freeze is also the final freeze for Universe and we don't get extra time.  Make sense?
<jpatrick> ScottK: I'll jot this down for the pack-guide
<ScottK> persia: I just acked your clive uvfe.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  Am I still waiting, or should I upload?
<ScottK> persia: I was just reading the bugmail.  Did another motu-uvf ack?
<persia> ScottK: No idea.  I'll check later, and wait for two.
<ScottK> jpatrick: I think the freeze exception proccess wiki page is fine.  This is just about timing for Gutsy.
<jpatrick> right
<ScottK> persia: Looks to me like ktoon might be another candidate for a UVFe if you have time.
<persia> ScottK: It's on my list (but at the lower of the priorities)
<ScottK> persia: Sounds reasonable.
* persia invites anyone else with time to assist in clearing http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs
<Hobbsee> ScottK: probably - but i would have expected slangasek to be around at some point
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  How about this...
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'll give it ~ 8 - 10 hours and if I don't have clarification that we do in fact have after Monday for last minute uploads, I'll change the hard freeze to Monday 0001 UTC with motu-uvf approved exceptions to 1000 UTC.
<ScottK> If later we find out we have more time, no one is going to complain.
<ScottK> persia: nixternal is going to look at ktoon.
<ScottK> persia: It seems to me like you've got plenty on your plate.
<persia> ScottK: Could you remind him to add the bug number on the rcbugs list when he does - saves me trying to remember.
<nixternal> persia: link me and I will do :)
* Hobbsee wonders how to disalbe all the shortcut keys in kde, only when using blender.
<persia> nixternal: http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs
<persia> Hobbsee: A wrapper script
<nixternal> oh...OK, I am installing the ubuntu one now to test it, and building the debian one to test
<ScottK> nixternal: Sounds great.
<nixternal> yup, KToon definately bombs from Ubuntu
<persia> nixternal: Right.  Read the bug.  Verify the bug.  Verify the fix.  Either extract the patch, or request sync/UVFe.  repeat :)
<nixternal> ya, a sync would be close since the debian package incorporated all but 1 of our patches
<persia> Urf.  The merges are the hardest :(
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Are you good with my proposal above^^^?
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, i think i've found it
<persia> Or maybe not :)  http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/ktoon/REPORT
* persia is extra happy with whoever decided to keep MoM running all the way until now.
<persia> Hobbsee: Which?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You might also want to ack Bug 152288 if you have a moment before sleeping.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152288 in clive "clive does not work with python2.5, and cannot access Google Video or YouTube" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152288
<Hobbsee> persia: how to block global shortcuts working whenever blender is running
<Hobbsee> ScottK: consider this my verbal irc ack
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Great.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: sounds sane
* persia digs up clive for upload.
<Hobbsee> persia: give it a name, click "detect window settings", select blendre, pick the options you want.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: Would you mind glancing at the debdiff to make sure I didn't miss anything with the python 2.5 ~> 2.4 transition?
<ScottK> persia: Will do.
<persia> Hobbsee: Neat.  That opens entirely new realms of action-specific input processing.  Perhaps I should reconsider KDE.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> persia: indeed.  this is one of the things that i like about KDE>
<Hobbsee> i can say "force this application to do this, no matter what everything else does
<Hobbsee> useful for programs which have odd shortcuts
<persia> Is it safe for a package to use debconf without depending on debconf in Ubuntu?
<ScottK> persia: The only think I see is in your python dependency versioning.  python2.4-dev (>= 2.3.5-11) doens't make sense to me.
<ScottK> persia: I believe you can rely on XS-Python-Version: and leave the depends/build-dep unversioned.
<persia> ScottK: That's leftovers.  I'll drop it.  Thanks.  Just FYI, the other thing wrong is that it should be "XSBC-Original-Maintainer" rather than "XSBC-Maintainer" :)
<ScottK> Other than that it looks fine (and what you have should actually work).
* ScottK didn't look at that, just the python stuff.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
<persia> ScottK: The issue is that distutils likes to set #!/usr/bin/python at the top - when I left python2.5 in the build-deps (or just called python in rules), it didn't keep my preferred interpreter.
<Hobbsee> persia: something tells me that if you try to do that in gnome, you're utterly screwed.
<ScottK> Right.  The rules changes you made should be fine
<persia> Hobbsee: You write a wrapper script.  it turns everything off, runs blender, and turns everything on.  You turn them on and off through gconf2 calls.  It's annoying when you get a SIGSEGV.
<Hobbsee> persia: ew.
<ScottK> persia: AFAIK, with pysupport/central it'll handle the 2.4 only bits even if it says #!/usr/bin/python at the top.
<persia> (note that that also works for KDE, or any other windowing environment, saving replacement of gconf2 with the appropriate tool)
<Hobbsee> yeah
<persia> ScottK: Packaging-wise, yes, but /usr/bin/clive crashes if it has #!/usr/bin/python at the top.  Perhaps a special case.
<ScottK> Ah.
<persia> I think you're allowed to have version-specific modules, but version-specific scripts for the non-default version cause issues.
<ScottK> Hmmm.  It might.  Very odd.
<persia> There's a special note about the workaround in the distutils documentation about scripts, but it completely fails to give any examples as to how to apply the workaround.
<ScottK> persia: Maybe we could ask in #debian-python on OFTC.
<persia> ScottK: You could, but I'm not sure it's important enough - there's plenty else to do, and we don't have many clive users, or someone would have reported a bug that it didn't work in feisty.
<ScottK> OK.  Let me see if I can find you an example.
<ScottK> persia: Could you give me a link to the distutils docmentation on the workaround (or a hint where to find it).
* persia has apparently failed miserably in avoiding yet more information about python packaging.
<persia> ScottK: http://docs.python.org/dist/node11.html
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.
* persia seeks someone with an ebay account to test esniper 2.17.0-1 (from Debian) for http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140167990751
<POX__> ScottK, persia: where can I download lates sources?
<POX__> (link to .dsc file)
<persia> POX__: For which?
<ScottK> POX__: If you get the current clive version from Sid and apply the debdiff in the bug I showed you, that'll be it.
<POX__> clive
<persia> POX__: Also, towards what?
<ScottK> persia: POX__ is here to try to help with your python2.4 problem with clive
<persia> POX__: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/clive/clive_0.2.1-1.dsc + http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9966751/clive_0.2.1-1ubuntu1.debdiff
<slangasek> ScottK: no, the point of freezing universe at the same time is so that setup for -security and -updates can be done during the period when main has to be locked down for CDs anyway
<persia> POX__: What I've done works, but it's not very elegant :(
<ScottK> slangasek: Thanks for the confirmation.  We'll adjust our schedule accordingly.
<ScottK> slangasek: Would you please accept tinyerp-server (if you haven't already).
<persia> slangasek: If you're accepting things: I've a list of them that close RC bugs :)
<POX__> persia: just changeling XS-Python-Version to 2.4 should be enough
<ScottK> persia: Hobbsee pushed a bunch of stuff through before she went to bed, but due to the fact (we think) that she was using a web UI to do it, accepted mails didn't go out.
<ScottK> So a bunch of your stuff may have already been accepted and you don't know unless you look for it in LP to see if it's been published.
<persia> POX__: That's what I thought.  Unfortunately, setup.py defines scripts/clive as a script, and disutils replaces the shebang line with the current interpreter (#!/usr/bin/python), which is 2.5 for Ubuntu, so /usr/bin/clive doesn't run after installation.
<persia> ScottK: I saw that, but she can't do what I wanted: syncs.
<ScottK> Ah.
<POX__> what is the problem then?
<persia> POX__: I don't know there is a problem, but I don't know there isn't, and ScottK suggested that we get another opinion on this method of forcing interpretation with /usr/bin/python2.4
<POX__> your way looks good to me, with this shebang python2.4 will be used for sure
<persia> POX__: Thanks for the confirmation.
<POX__> np, btw: I just saw that ubuntu still has griffith 0.9.4, I gues it's too late for new upstream, right?
<POX__> so what should I do to have it in -updates?
<POX__> what is the procedure?
<persia> POX__: We only very rarely accept new upstreams as -updates.  -backports is a possibility.  Does it close an RC bug?
<ScottK> POX__: Procedure (at this point) is to wait for the Harfy repos to open and get it in there and then backport it.
<persia> !backports
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<POX__> RC, I guess not, but it has few annoying bugs, let me generate some diffstts...
<ScottK> POX__: If you can extract bug patches and give us a debdiff, we can definitely get those in today or tomorrow.
<POX__> I'll do
<ScottK> POX__: You can ping me if I'm around, but I won't be around much tomorrow.
<POX__> ok, thanks
<slangasek> persia: can't be too long of a list, the list of stuff in unaccepted is very short?
<slangasek> persia: oh, syncs; right, feel free to throw them at me, I won't be able to get to them for a few hours yet though
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ScottK] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | New Packages Freeze / Upstream Version Freeze in effect -  Universe Freeze Monday 0001 UTC, all uploads to be approved by -uvf | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages.
<persia> slangasek: most of the gutsy targeted from https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ appears useful to me.  My own only incude cecilia, gxmms, snort, and zeroc-icee-java so far, but I've several dozen more build-tests to run in the next few hours.
<ScottK> Updated Universe freeze is in /topic.  Details on the MOTU mailing list.
<slangasek> persia: bug #118964 doesn't look like a sync request to me, and only mentions versions older than the one currently in gutsy, I'm not sure what's meant to happen there?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118964 in cecilia "Please drop csound & cecilia from ia64 and amd64" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118964
* ScottK looks.
<ScottK> persia: ^^^ is your bug.  Would you please discuss with slangasek.
<ScottK> slangasek: are the cecilia | 2.0.5-2ubuntu2 | amd64, ia64 binaries present?
<minghua> ScottK: There isn't a rmadison-equivalent in Ubuntu?
<ScottK> minghua: There is (IIRC), but I don't know how to operate it.
<minghua> Hmm.  So rmadison doesn't work in Ubuntu?  Pity.
<mlind> ScottK, StevenK: would fixing bug #147748 still be possible for gutsy?
* ScottK is kind of a Debian idiot savant.  There's stuff I know and know pretty well, but stuff I know nothing about.  
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147748 in eclipse "eclipse from repository and ant don't work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147748
<ScottK> mlind: Is there a fix available?
<mlind> ScottK: in Debian sid yes, I've not tested it yet. I though asking first.
<ScottK> mlind: OK.  We have about ~29 hours left before hard freeze for uploads.
<ScottK> minghua: I'm pretty sure rmadison does work, I
<sladen> minghua: what is rmadison, why doesn't it work?
<ScottK> I've just never used it.
<ScottK> sladen: He's made an assumption that my ignorance == doesn't exist that I believe is incorrect.
<mlind> ScottK: okay, so it would be still doable. I'll get back to you.
<ScottK> mlind: Yes, but at this point we want the least invasive way to solve the problem.  You'll also need to find a MOTU (I'm assuming your not one, but don't actually know) who has both time and a suitable machine to build/test it on (I've neither).
<sladen> B<dak ls> was formerly called B<madison>.
<sladen> apparently
<sladen> http://qa.debian.org/madison.php
<ScottK> Would a MOTU please look at Bug #139143.  Comments to the contrary not withstanding, it appears not to have actually been uploaded.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139143 in apt-listchanges "apt-listchanges crashes after python upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139143
<mlind> ScottK: yeah, I just wanted to check that universe hasn't frozen yet.
<sladen> minghua: if you think the functionality would be useful, please file a bug request into launchpad---for launchpad itself as it sounds like the information means
<sladen> funny, the only place I could find a copy of rmadison was in the google cache from Hobsee's website
<ScottK> mlind: OK.  I'm being verbose to reduce risk on mis-communication this close to the freeze.
<slangasek> ScottK: no; there's an arch: all cecilia_2.0.5-2ubuntu2 in gutsy which I have no clue at all about, but that doesn't seem related to this bug
<ScottK> slangasek: Odd.  I guess we have to wait for persia to resurface then.
<ScottK> slangasek: Are you just pushing Universe uploads or do I need to bug you about ones that are particularly important?
<slangasek> ScottK: I was starting by looking at the ones persia had brought to my attention, and that's the first one on the list, and now I'm off shopping for a bit :)
<slangasek> ScottK: if you have ones of particular importance, flagging them to me is probably a good idea
<ScottK> slangasek: mergeant is the one on my mind currently.
<minghua> sladen: rmadison is a tool in the devscripts package, it should exist in Ubuntu, it's just a matter if it works or not.  I don't have it installed on my Ubuntu do didn't test.
<nixternal> ScottK: we can just synch the ktoon thing with debians
<nixternal> we can drop the 50_dactionmanager_retval patch
<nixternal> the debian version though is a new upstream release
<ScottK> nixternal: Please file a sync request then.
<ScottK> But subscribe motu-uvf instead of the archive.
<nixternal> in progress of doing so now
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> nixternal: I'll ack it immediately, so please ping me here when it's done.
<nixternal> yup
<sladen> minghua: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/devscripts | grep rmadison
<sladen> minghua: do you have example command line that you would use?
<sladen> minghua: $ rmadison devscripts
<sladen> devscripts |     2.8.14 |     oldstable | source, alpha, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc
<sladen> and 5 other lines
<sladen> from that, I assume it works
<minghua> sladen: Then it seems it just checks the Debian archive (as the rmadison in Debian does), so I won't call it "working"...
<minghua> sladen: I would expect it to check Ubuntu archive.
<sladen> minghua: rmadison -u ubuntu devscripts   ahhh, that works
<minghua> sladen: Good to know.
<sladen> which internally uses http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/madison.cgi
<ScottK> Yes.  Good to know.  Thanks minghua
<ScottK> and sladen
<sladen> so there's a possible bug that rmadison should default to 'ubuntu' when running under ubuntu
<minghua> sladen: Yeah, I just misunderstood ScottK's reply about rmadison.
<minghua> It was "ScottK doesn't know how to use it" instead of "it doesn't work in Ubuntu". :-P
<ScottK> And now I do thanks to both of you.
<minghua> Yay, rmadison -u ubuntu works in Debian, too.
<nixternal> ScottK: bug 152423 is ready
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152423 in ktoon "[Gutsy Sync]  Please sync KToon (0.8.1-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152423
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> nixternal: Thanks.
<nixternal> yup
<ScottK> soren or zul: would you please ack ^^^ - It fixes "package won't work" problems.
<ScottK> The rest of motu-uvf is known to be asleep.
<sladen> minghua: ScottK: I've filed http://launchpad.net/bugs/152424 FWIW
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152424 in devscripts "rmadision should default to 'ubuntu' URL when under Ubuntu." [Wishlist,New] 
<ScottK> sladen: You might discuss it with StevenK.  He works on devscripts both in Ubuntu and Debian.
<sladen> minghua: btw, in general, the core Ubuntu and Debian developers are the same people;  so if a tool was written because it was useful, it like likely be available for both  (see packages.*.*  and similar
<minghua> sladen: Thanks.
<ScottK> \sh_away: If you get a chance, would you look at Bug #152433.  I don't know if this is a problem on that person's box or something we need to get fixed in the next ~28 hours?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152433 in wine "No internet in wine after feisty to gusty upgrade in kubuntu" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152433
<jussi01> hmmm, cant seem to figure this out. its complaining it needs libSDL-1.2.so.0 but which libsdl package do I install?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<norsetto> Press Release: Ubuntu developers are busy with the last minute cut and paste of changes: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-planning-pics/IMG_0036.JPG
<etank> nixternal: your blog post is inspiring :)
<norsetto> hey bddebian, looking for something to do?
<bddebian> Heya norsetto.  Depends on what it is.  I have to head to the ariport in about 40 minutes
<norsetto> bddebian: review of a package in REVU?
<norsetto> jussi01: could it be this: libsdl1.2debian-all?
<jussi01> norsetto: yeah, I think so. thanks alot :)
<norsetto> jussi01: it depends on what the program will do with it, that one is a sure bet, but you could use one of the specialised versions too (if you know what it is needed for).
<jussi01> norsetto: heh, I think it might be the alsa variant...
<jussi01> then again, I could use the -all ... :P
<norsetto> what package is it for? Could be an overkill (
<norsetto> X11, aalib, and ggi graphics
<norsetto>  drivers and oss, esound, alsa, arts, and nas sound drivers.
<bddebian> norsetto: Which package?
<norsetto> sorry about the flooding, it wasn't intentional
<norsetto> bddebian: this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=358 or this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=373
<norsetto> bddebian: but don't worry if you have no time, I appreciate it anyhow
<slangasek> ScottK: wow, mergeant has really been outstanding since 2005?
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> It seemed a shame to leave a 4 digit bug open when we could close it.  Debian finally caught up with upstream.
* norsetto bows to Master ScottK
<ScottK> heh.  Hello norsetto.
<ScottK> slangasek: Looks like Mithrandir just accepted it.
<ScottK> norsetto: Would you please have a look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/152438 and see if it's a general problem and if it's something we can fix before release?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Undecided,New] 
<norsetto> scottK: it could be a leftover configuration file, let me check
<ScottK> Dunno.
<ScottK> Please do.
<bddebian> norsetto: I assume these are not for gutsy?
<norsetto> bddebian: right
<ScottK> norsetto: You might also look at bug 139143 is you have time.  Looks to me like it didn't get uploaded.  I don't have an opinion on if it should or not.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139143 in apt-listchanges "apt-listchanges crashes after python upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139143
<bddebian> norsetto: Unfortuanetly I don't think I'm going to get to them now.  I have them open though so I'll try to hit them when I get back from the airport
<norsetto> scottK: bug 152438 seems a genuine one, since the file locations were changed to comply with the FHS, but apparently the path in the config file is still relative, so it is looking in the wrong dir (/usr/lib/ instead of /etc/viewvc)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152438 in viewvc "ViewVC doesn't work after dist-upgrade from viewcvs in feisty" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152438
<norsetto> bddebian: thanks barry, appreciate it a lot
<ScottK> norsetto: Can you fix it?
<norsetto> ScottK: not in half an hour
<ScottK> norsetto: We have ~27 hours
<norsetto> ScottK: not me, I'm away most of the day tomorrow
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.
<norsetto> scottK: it could also be a problem of the migration, since there is a fancy script that moves templates from viewcvs to viewvc, have to check deeper
<ScottK> I'm reading the Debian bug now and there's lots of discussion.
<ScottK> norsetto: There's a patch at the end of the Debian bug that might be worth looking into.
<norsetto> ScottK: 409864?
<ScottK> norsetto: Yes.
<slangasek> persia: the scripts available to me don't work for syncing snort, because gutsy currently has an ubuntu diff; this apparently wants to be a merge
<mlind> any universe-sponsors around to take a look at Bug #147748 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147748 in eclipse "eclipse from repository and ant don't work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147748
<norsetto> g'night all, see you scottK
<ScottK> man-di: Do you have an opinion on the proposed revisions in Bug #147748?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 147748 in eclipse "eclipse from repository and ant don't work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147748
<man-di> ScottK: I proposed to doko to apply the small patch to Ubuntu yesterday
<ScottK> man-di: What did doko say?
<man-di> ScottK: no time
* doko said: please show me the debdiff
<man-di> doko: its in the bug report
<man-di> doko: as I said, I have not much time myself
<ScottK> doko: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9973602/debdiff_small.txt
#ubuntu-motu 2007-10-14
<slangasek> yuck, why do the gutsy mythtv packages depend on msttcorefonts?
<man-di> ScottK: today I saw that it doesnt seem to work on i386
<man-di> ScottK: in debian at least
<ScottK> man-di: The proposed revision or the current one?
<ScottK> superm1: See slangasek's comment ^^^
<man-di> -4 is the current one in debian, yes
<doko> ScottK: its universe, if you're ok with the upload, pleae go ahead. there's a reason that I'm still awake on Saturdaynight :-(
<ScottK> doko: I'm fairly highly allergic to Java (but know others aren't).  If you think technically (from a Java perspective) it's a good change, I'll see if I have time to build/test/uplod it.
<man-di> ScottK: testing on i386 would be needed, I dont really know why it doesnt work on i386 in debian
<doko> ScottK: please go ahead, and please convince man-di to get motu status himself so he can do it himself ;)
<ScottK> OK.  Well my Gutsy box has 256MB of RAM, so I don't think I'm the one to test it.
<man-di> ScottK: my machine has 2 GB and I get OOMs when buidling eclipse without tricks since doko uploaded GCJ 4.2 :-/
<mlind> ScottK: roll the package in PPA maybe ?
<ScottK> man-di: I've got a server I can build it on with 4GB ram.  It's the testing not the building that's the trouble.
<ScottK> mlind: If you've got a PPA, you can do that.
<man-di> ScottK: aah, okay
* ScottK declined the terms of service.
<ScottK> mlind: At this point the only option I would consider is the small one.
<mlind> ScottK: yes, I'd do that too.
<man-di> doko: BTW: I dont really see a reason to make me a MOTU, after all I dont use Ubuntu
<ScottK> man-di: I don't see that as a hard requirement.
<pochu> night all
<man-di> ScottK: for you, but for me ;-)
<mlind> can one yet delete packages from PPA?
<ScottK> mlind: --> #launchpad.
* ScottK has got to run.  I'll be back later.
<man-di> ScottK: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446438 was reported against the 'fixed' version in Debian
<ubotu> Debian bug 446438 in eclipse-jdt "eclipse-jdt: ant editor can not open build.xml" [Important,Open] 
<man-di> ScottK: cu
<nenolod> Adri2000, btw le_vert (audacious-plugins launchpad #123150) can be very stubborn
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123150 in audacious-plugins "Audacious unable to play MP3 streams" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123150
<nenolod> Adri2000, so i don't know how cooperative he will be
<nenolod> ;p
<Kmos> Can someone archive this one? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=377
<Kmos> thanks
<Kmos> or nuke it :)
<Kmos> it's NEW on debian now..
<Kmos> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=363
<Kmos> and this one too
<imbrandon> anyone here that uses fluxbox ?
* _MMA_ wonders why imbrandon didnt just ask joejaxx? :)
<imbrandon> he's afk
<imbrandon> heh
<_MMA_> Oh yeah. He said he had to lay down.
<imbrandon> i just installed fluxbox ( not fluxbuntu ) on gutsy, started a flux session and right click isnt bringing up the menu
<imbrandon> i even had to start xterm from tty1 with `DISPLAY=:0 xterm`
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> sux to be me atm :)
<_MMA_> imbrandon: Talk to nothlit in #fluxbuntu
<imbrandon> k
<persia> slangasek: Sorry.  Sleeping.  ceclilia needs architecture-specific drops.  snort doesn't need a merge: the Ubuntu changes were adopted by Debian.  Thank you for gxmms and zeroc-icee-java.
* persia seeks someone with an ebay account to test esniper 2.17.0-1 (from Debian) for http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140167990751 (dget http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/esniper/esniper_2.17.0-1.dsc)
<imbrandon> _MMA_: wow people in that channel are harsh :)
<_MMA_> lol really?
<imbrandon> persia: test it on gutsy ?
<_MMA_> Joe wouldnt let that happen. The kids must be at play.
<persia> imbrandon: manually execute `update-menus`, which should fix it.  There's something funny about menu generation on package install (or initial install).
<persia> imbrandon: Yes.  Test on gutsy.
<imbrandon> persia: if you can get me a gutsy i386 package built from that i'd be happy to but i'm on a p200 and dont wanna compile it
<imbrandon> lol
<slangasek> persia: for snort, the scripts I have available don't appear to let me override the fact that snort has previously diverged from Debian
* persia seeks someone with a i386 to run a build process for http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/esniper/esniper_2.17.0-1.dsc
<persia> slangasek: Understood.  I'll wait for someone else.
<imbrandon> persia: should a session restart be required after update-menus ?
<persia> imbrandon: It shouldn't, but you might need to wait a minute.  You'll want to make sure to run it system wise (`sudo update-menus`)
<persia> s/wise/wide/
<slangasek> persia: as for cecilia, the problem package is an arch: all package; I'm not sure why it wasn't removed automatically when the arch: any binaries became available, but the tools don't work for cleaning this up either
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> ok how much longer do i have for a universe upload ?
<persia> slangasek: It's not arch: all anymore :)
<slangasek> persia: um, the problem package you're asking to have removed *is*
<persia> slangasek: Are you sure?  I thought there was a script for binary removal (if a less popular one).
<persia> slangasek: Right.  Sorry.
<slangasek> persia: the script for binary removals doesn't appear to DTRT with -a all
<persia> slangasek: Thanks for trying.  I keep finding corner cases :)
<persia> imbrandon: I think binary uploads have about 22 hours left, so source uploads should be earlier.
<StevenK> For universe, you have more than 22 hours
<imbrandon> we dont do binary upload iirc
<imbrandon> anyhow so i'm good for now with universe correct ?
<imbrandon> man i hate "comming back" at the end of a cycle
<persia> StevenK: I thought there was a new announcement that we had until Monday 0:01 UTC.  Is my math broken?
<persia> imbrandon: From what I understood about the archive, you'll want to have your builds done before the hard freeze (I may be mistaken).
<persia> imbrandon: and, yes, now is safe to upload.
<imbrandon> ok i *think* my final upload for gutsy is done, probably not though
<StevenK> persia: When ScottK and I were talking to pitti, he said until Wednesday for universe - we (being motu-uvf) have to approve it.
<StevenK> Anyway, I'm out.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  I'm following https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002450.html
<imbrandon> well its only a revision anyhow not a UVF , worst case it will be rejected
<imbrandon> looks like one more reboot bbiab
<bddebian> persia: Are you still working on esniper? :-)
<persia> bddebian: Rather, I'M hoping someone with an ebay account will.  We've about 4 hours left on the auction.
<DktrKranz> persia, need a hand?
<persia> DktrKranz: very much so.  could you build http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/esniper/esniper_2.17.0-1.dsc for gutsy, and see if it works?
<DktrKranz> what I need to do to discover if it works properly?
<persia> minghua was nice enough to host http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140167990751 for use to test against.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: the issue is update-menus
<joejaxx> when it forks duing a dpkg execution on a package that has the menus add hook it never returns after dpkg is done
<persia> The fork is a good thing, but the return hook is just plain broken.
<superm1> slangasek, unfortunately the themes call for arial right now.
<joejaxx> persia: yeah unfortunately
<slangasek> superm1: <whimper>fix the themes?</whimper>
<superm1> slangasek, well we were waiting for the liberation fonts to come through
<joejaxx> persia: which stinks for us that use the debian menu :D ;)
<superm1> and we were going to make a package called fake-msttcorefonts then
<superm1> that symlinked those to the font names that msttcorefonts provided
<slangasek> heh
<persia> joejaxx: Yep.
<slangasek> so dejavu sans isn't good enough?
<superm1> so that no patching was needed.  but since those didn't ever come through
<joejaxx> and if iirc we are close to hard no more packages freeze
<superm1> no, i did some experiments with other fonts and it looked pretty tacky
<joejaxx> or past it
<joejaxx> :P
<slangasek> aww
<superm1> compared to how they look with the msttcorefonts
<superm1> so hopefully licensing on the liberation fonts gets sorted during hardy, so that we can use those
<DktrKranz> persia, built. now what?
<bddebian> Now install and start bidding ;-)
<persia> DktrKranz: You'll want to look at sample_config and sample_auction in /usr/share/docs/esniper/
<DktrKranz> is it mandatory to test it right now? it's quite late here and I should have some sleep...but if you need it in short time, I can give it a better try
<persia> DktrKranz: We hav 3 hours & 53 minute left in our test.  If you don't have time, could you put up an i386 binary for imbrandon?
<DktrKranz> no problem at all...just a second
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks a lot.
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: thanks
<DktrKranz> and sorry to not been able to test it directly as I wish...it's 4:15 here and I was busy in bug squashing :)
<persia> DktrKranz: No worries.  That's why we're a team :)
<DktrKranz> imbrandon, www.linuxdc.it/esniper_2.17.0-1_i386.deb
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: sweet, getting it now
<DktrKranz> built on up-to-date gutsy
<imbrandon> k, good thats what i'm running
<DktrKranz> anyway, it took me just a couple of minutes
<DktrKranz> if you ever need to recompile, it will not be a waste of time
<persia> imbrandon: Can you snipe by yourself, or do you need someone else to compete with you?
<imbrandon> well i just dident want to install all the build tools and buld aon a p200
<imbrandon> persia: not sure, never used this app in my life, i just have an ebay account and wanted to help
<DktrKranz> I'm going to sleep, if you don't need something else
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks a lot.  Sleep well.
<imbrandon> persia: ok its installed, any "quick start" tips for what you need testede
<imbrandon> tested*
<imbrandon> DktrKranz: thanks
<DktrKranz> thanks to you, gnight
<imbrandon> persia: ok its installed, any "quick start" tips for what you need testede
<persia> imbrandon: You'll want to create an auction file for http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140167990751, and run esniper in the background.  Someone else will outbid your last bid, and near the auction end, esniper should make a quick bid so you win.
<imbrandon> persia: ok i think its running correctly , someone else will have to test near the end of the auction i guess ( i'll leave it running )
<imbrandon> Auction 140167990751: Ubuntu 7.10 CD Image file
<imbrandon> Time remaining: 2 hours 39 mins 36 secs (9576 seconds)
<imbrandon> End time: 14/10/2007 00:04:35
<imbrandon> Currently: 0.01  (your maximum bid: 0.75)
<imbrandon> # of bids: 1
<imbrandon> High bidder: holtsclawb!!!
<imbrandon> Latency: 0 seconds
<imbrandon> Sat Oct 13 21:24:59 2007: Sleeping for 1 hours 39 minutes
<imbrandon> it wont check again for 1.5 hours
<persia> imbrandon: What timeout did you use for the snipe?
<imbrandon> i dunno i ran it like this ....
<imbrandon>  esniper -u holtsclawb -P 140167990751 0.7
<imbrandon> err
<imbrandon>  esniper -u holtsclawb -P 140167990751 0.75
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.
<imbrandon> e.g -u user -P prompt for pass and auction number and price
<imbrandon> i'll leave it running in the background
<persia> Could someone please bid $0.60 on  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140167990751?
<bddebian> I'll try if I can remember my password :-)
<persia> bddebian: Thanks.
<imbrandon> afk one sec
<persia> imbrandon: Just to make sure, we want someone other than you to be the high bidder :)  You should bid 0.75 near the end, and win anyway.
<ScottK> StevenK: We got revised on the Wed thing today.
<ScottK> StevenK: They need to starting copying the entire archive for -updates/-security at the same time they start making the CDs.
<bddebian> OK, .60 bid
<persia> bddebian: Thanks.
<bddebian> Have to be of some use on occasion ;-)
<ScottK> StevenK or zul: Would you please ack Bug 152423 (patch currently is totally broken so downside risk is nil).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152423 in ktoon "[Gutsy Sync]  Please sync KToon (0.8.1-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152423
<ScottK> StevenK and zul: I'm interested in what you think about Bug 151699 (I am uncertain on this one).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151699 in gdc-4.1 "[UVFe]  gdc-4.1 0.25 new upstream release" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151699
<persia> Should motu-uvf be subscribed for review prior to the completion of testing, or only after verification?
<RAOF> Yay, gdm starts again!  (bug #152505)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152505 in gdm "gdmgreeter segfaults when XRandR is not available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152505
<TheMuso> Sweet. Uses Ape v2/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> wrong channel
<ScottK> persia: Subscribe motu-uvf when you are ready for motu-uvf to decide something (I'd say after).
<persia> ScottK: That makes sense.  Thanks for the confirmation.
* persia waits 1 hour 43 mins 50 secs
<ScottK> For?
<persia> http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=140167990751 for bug #152503
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152503 in esniper "Please sync esniper _2.17.0-1 (universe) from Debian (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152503
<ScottK> Right.
* ScottK would really appreciate not being the only motu-uvf around so stuff could get decided ...
<ScottK> persia: Do you have time in your schedule to look at a proposed Eclispe revision?
<persia> ScottK: That looks like a merge.  I'd really prefer if someone else hit it (as there doesn't seem to be anyone else tracing RC bugs).
<ScottK> persia: There's a minimal debdiff option which I think we should pursue, but I don't have enough RAM on my gutsy machine to build/test it.
<ScottK> RAOF: How about you?  Up for fixing eclipse?
<persia> ScottK: If you just need build cycles, I can do that.  Where's the debdiff?
<RAOF> ScottK: Uuuuuur...
<RAOF> ScottK: I'm up for *building* eclipse?
<ScottK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9973602/debdiff_small.txt
<persia> RAOF: Thanks.
<ScottK> There's the debdiff.  RAOF, if you would, since persia has a lot of stuff on his plate.
<RAOF> Anyone want to review bug #152505 before I subscribe u-m-s?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152505 in gdm "gdmgreeter segfaults when XRandR is not available" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152505
* persia is mostly rebuilding things to discover they don't really FTBFS for us
<persia> Anybody around using xen?  Could you confirm that gutsy xenman doesn't crash on start?
<ScottK> RAOF: You know about 64bit stuff, right?
<ScottK> RAOF: Any idea why https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgnomedb3/3.0.0-2build1 would build on AMD64, but FTBFS on IA64?
<RAOF> ScottK: Because IA64 is wierd and crazy?
* RAOF looks
<slangasek> because the ia64 platform always has bits set in the high 32-bits of a pointer
<slangasek> whereas on amd64 it's a crapshoot
* persia thinks the problem is "*** libgnomedb_entry_builtin_plugins.so is not portable!"
<RAOF> That looks a likely culprit, yes.
<ScottK> Right, but knowing little about 64bit stuff, I was suprised that'd be a problem on IA64 and not AMD64.
<slangasek> no, that's not the reason
<RAOF> It's possible that it's not actually a 64bit problem, but something strange with the IA64 linking process.
* ScottK looks over at slangasek and hopes for enlightenment.
<slangasek> try fixing the implicit function declarations
* ScottK looks at RAOF and hopes maybe he knows how to do that.
<slangasek> including the headers that contain the declarations? :)
<persia> The linking is fine, it's just that the result SEGVs.  I suspect slangsek is correct, and the non-portability assumes that a 64-bit integer can be safely treated as two 32-bit integers.
* ScottK pretty much just does Python and doesn't have to worry about such stuff.
<slangasek> right, because if you try to use a function before importing it python immediately tells you to get bent, on any arch. :)
* ScottK steps carefully to the other side of the room and hopes those that know what they are talking about will continue.
* ScottK pokes RAOF and points ^^^
<slangasek> pff, I don't even see where libgnomedb-3.0-scan.c is coming from, it's apparently not part of the libgnomedb3 source
<persia> Does sbuild 0.56 work for anyone else?  It's not on my list, but I'm still pinned at 0.53.
* RAOF has a look
<slangasek> ScottK: well, this is some serious gnome voodoo in gtk-doc-tools; it's the generated source that's missing the includes, I have no idea how to tell it what headers to include
<ScottK> slangasek: OK.  Well if it's serious vodoo to you, then I'm not even going to go near it.  I guess it'll just have to stay dead.  Thanks for looking.
<slangasek> it's probably less serious to someone who works more with GNOME packaging
* ScottK is just a Kubuntu user... has SEEN Gnome once or twice.
* RAOF steps away from the autogenerated code.
<RAOF> I've got a friend up from Hobart, I'm not going to have time to expose that voodoo.
<slangasek> ok, libgnomedb-3.0.types is the sourceful bit that declares the types to reference
<slangasek> that's doc/C/libgnomedb-3.0.types
<slangasek> it includes records for gnome_db_entry_foo, but several of these (the ones with warnings in the build log) have no public headers that are installed in libgnomedb3-dev, nor are those headers referenced at the top of libgnomedb-3.0.types itself
<slangasek> so either those headers need to be made public (including them from libgnomedb.h seems to be the standard way), or the references to those types should be removed.
<persia> slangasek: That makes sense (in a twisted way).  Why does it work for !ia64?
<slangasek> because on ia64, the high 32-bits of a pointer address are non-empty?
<slangasek> so if the compiler doesn't have a declaration of the function, it doesn't know it returns a pointer (actually a GType, which much to my frustration is typedefed as an int rather than a pointer, suppressing a relevant compiler warning); which means it defaults to int, which is always 32-bit and truncates the return value
<slangasek> so then the code takes what should be a valid pointer, and walks off into nowhere in memory -> segfault
<persia> Aha.  So it's a compiler parsing issue with unknown types.  That makes sense.  Why isn't it a compiler bug?
<slangasek> because the compiler isn't doing anything wrong
<slangasek> it's behaving exactly as it's told
<slangasek> it gives a warning, which is as much as it's supposed to do when invoked this way; it's up to the developers to notice the warning and fix the bug
<persia> Ah, never mind.  I'm missing the placement of GType.  Thanks for the explanation, but I suspect I need to look at much more before I have a full understanding (and should get back to emulating a buildd)
<ScottK> slangasek: Any idea of how much longer the i386 buildd's are going to be occupied with language packs?
<slangasek> ScottK: no clue
<ScottK> OK.  Just getting a bi t antsy.
<ScottK> Hello Hobbsee.
<slangasek> where does one look to see that they /are/ occupied with language packs? :)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you be up for a quick motu-uvf ack of bug 152423 (it's a package doesn't work at all -> works at least some kind of upload).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152423 in ktoon "[Gutsy Sync]  Please sync KToon (0.8.1-1) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152423
<ScottK> slangasek: I look here, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+builds?build_text=&build_state=building but I'm sure there are better places
<slangasek> well, not for me there probably arent'
* persia just uses https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+builds
<ScottK> persia: Bug #152519 acked by me.  Maybe Hobbsee will look at it too.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152519 in sqlfairy "Please sync sqlfairy 0.08.001-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152519
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  Soon...
* persia wonders if anyone is chasing the sponsors queues
<ScottK> persia: I'll have a look at uus now that you mention it.
<ScottK> RAOF: How's eclipse?
<persia> ScottK: If there's anything not appropriate for gutsy, would you mind adding a comment indicating this, and asking for preparation for hardy?
<ScottK> persia: I was just thinking that exact same thing.  Absolutely.  I've already done that more than once on REVU.
<persia> ScottK: Perfect :)
<Hobbsee> hiya slangasek
<ScottK> persia: You looked at the openct patch and decided not to upload it.  How strongly do you feel about that?
<ScottK> IIRC
<persia> ScottK: Bug#?
<ScottK> persia: Bug #125054
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125054 in openct "openct broken by ubuntu udev setup" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125054
<persia> ScottK: Not very strongly.  I'd like to see someone other than upstream test it in gutsy, or to understand where $MODALIAS comes from.  With either of those, I'd upload.
<ScottK> persia: Based on it's backported from the upstream svn and it seems the package is fairly broken, I'm inclined to upload it.
<ScottK> Hmmm
<persia> ScottK: Don't let me block you.  I'm being conservative because I don't understand one clause.  If $MODALIAS is always undefined, everything should work fine (and the previous script appears like it shouldn't work)
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Based on that, I'll go for it.  Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: Sure.  You're always welcome to confirmation of my ignorance :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you suck at spelling my nick.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.  I'm dead without tab completion.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: How about the ktoon UVFe?
* Hobbsee just ack'd it
<Hobbsee> sorry, dealing with emial
<ScottK> No problem.
<persia> imbrandon: Around?  I just want to make sure that the esniper process is still running smoothly: the auction expires in 11 mins 38 secs
<ScottK> Hobbsee: How about persia's sqlfairy UVFe?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: just ack'd that too
<Hobbsee> ScottK: right, so now i'm requested not to accept things.
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  I'll subscribe the next team in the list :)
<Hobbsee> persia: no problem.  i did it via email, so it should just work
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Urgh.
<Hobbsee> oh no!
* Hobbsee wonders if she'll get all the ubuntu-archive mail now.
<persia> heh
<Hobbsee> oh, no, it's to a separate mailing list.
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks for pushing it along :)
<Hobbsee> persia: slangasek may do a bunch of processing.  right now, it's as if i dont have access to any of it :(
<persia> 3 RC syncs pending in the u-a-a queue :)
<imbrandon> persia: yea it will wakeup in 6 minutes
<imbrandon> it said
<persia> imbrandon: Excellent.  Thank you.
<imbrandon> Auction 140167990751: Ubuntu 7.10 CD Image file
<imbrandon> Time remaining: 7 mins 49 secs (469 seconds)
<imbrandon> End time: 14/10/2007 00:04:35
<imbrandon> Currently: 0.55  (your maximum bid: 0.75)
<imbrandon> # of bids: 2
<imbrandon> High bidder: bddebian (NOT holtsclawb)
<imbrandon> Latency: 0 seconds
<imbrandon> Sat Oct 13 23:56:46 2007: Sleeping for 5 minutes 39 seconds
<persia> Nice latency :)
<imbrandon> :)
* persia dislikes packages that build, install themselves, and rebuild.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> hrm why would one do such a thing
<persia> imbrandon: Bootstrapping.  Often when building compilers or interpreters, you need to build a framework to then build the self-hosted true system.
<imbrandon> ahh like fpc
<persia> Only 1 minute left...
* Hobbsee emails the MOTU ML and ubuntu-devel
<persia> Cool.  It works!
<persia> Thanks minghua, bddebian, imbrandon, and dktrkranz
<imbrandon> persia: np
<persia> ScottK: over to you: bug #152503
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152503 in esniper "Please sync esniper _2.17.0-1 (universe) from Debian (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152503
<ScottK> persia: Ack.  Ask Hobbsee now...
<persia> Hobbsee: Our last non-xen Debian RC in gutsy awaits your pleasure :)
<Hobbsee> woot!
<persia> Um.  s/RC/Grave RC/
<Hobbsee> how's our sponsorship queue looking?
<Hobbsee> debian bug 442369
<persia> universe: 16, main: 20
<ubotu> Debian bug 442369 in esniper "esniper: unable to find auction --> solved in CVS" [Grave,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/442369
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Not bad.  16 left many of which are debian dupes or pending SRUs
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> we can search by subscriber now, from ubuntu itself
<Hobbsee> so can get rid of teh debian dupes
<persia> But https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ or https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ubuntu/ should do that.
<Hobbsee> ack'd.
<Hobbsee> oh nice!
<Hobbsee> didnt know that was supported
* ScottK considers filing a bug along the lines of "LP lies when it says their are Baltix bugs related to me."
<persia> Hobbsee: It's not :(
<Hobbsee> oh, should, right, yes.
<ScottK> their/there
<Hobbsee> although no one would ever ifnd it.
* persia would.  Often.
* Hobbsee just goes to the ubuntu bug page, advance searches for bugs subscribed to u-u-s, problem solved.
<Hobbsee> it even got implemented in way under 6 months?  how nice is that?
* persia would even like  https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ubuntu/hardy/ to work next time.
* Hobbsee just wants working archive admin powers, dammit!
<persia> Hobbsee: You don't really want that.  I'd be asking you to try to figure out how to sync snort or drop cecilia as arch:all, neither apparently trivial.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> whta's wrong with cecilia?
<Hobbsee> persia: i already have those powers - when it includes asking other people to do that, and they say yes.
<persia> It used to be arch: all, and depended on csound.  csound assumes that 64 bit integers can be split so that the high half is flags, and the bottom half a pointer.  I uploaded an arch: many cecilia, but the arch: all binary is still floating around.
<persia> Hobbsee: heh
<Hobbsee> lamont: you around?
<Hobbsee> seems not.
<Hobbsee> lamont: when you wake up and come and see irc again, can you deal with persia's request, presumably in P-a-s?  thanks.
<ScottK> persia: What version of snort are you trying to sync?
<persia> ScottK: 2.7.0-6
<persia> ScottK: The things that make it tricky are 1) it overrides previous Ubuntu changes (Debian adopted them), and 2) it introduces a NEW binary package.
<ScottK> persia: I can solve #1 if slangasek can solve #2 ^^^
<bluefoxicy> Removing linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-13-generic ...
<bluefoxicy> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-13-generic
<bluefoxicy> Purging configuration files for linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-13-generic ...
<bluefoxicy> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-13-generic
<persia> slangasek: ?
<bluefoxicy> Can anyone guess what I'm doing?
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: Flooding the channel.
<bluefoxicy> scottk besides that
<persia> bluefoxicy: distracting people from syncing snort?
<ScottK> persia: He's the new release manager (and I believe is here and has archive admin powers to NEW the new binary).
<ScottK> bluefoxicy: That's all I really noticed.
<bluefoxicy> persia:  that too.  But I more meant REMOVING A KERNEL, and rebuilding its initrd 15 times in the process >.>
<Hobbsee> persia: i can new the binary.
<persia> Hobbsee: Great.
<Hobbsee> like, without cjwatson eating me.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'll see if I can upload it.
<persia> ScottK: Can you fix #1?  Hobbsee will do #2.
<Hobbsee> oh wait.  am i supposed to, based on saying i'd avoid the new queue?
<ScottK> trying.
<persia> Hobbsee: binary new, or source new?
<Hobbsee> hm.  i think i was asked to wait until after the powers that be were consulted.
<Hobbsee> persia: well, that's the question
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Is it better to have the archive fixed with an incomplete paper trail or broken and documented?
<Hobbsee> persia: i cant do source new, due to no paper trail, and licencing stuff.  but binary accepted mails get blackholed anyway.
* persia doesn't think it really matters if there's delayed NEW processing.  only i386 users would even notice: it would be just as broken for everyone else.
<ScottK> This is a binary NEW
<Hobbsee> exactly
<ScottK> So it should be fine, right?
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: and we dont do kernels in this channel.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: unsure.  we'll see :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, it's universe?  no, i shouldn't, then.
* Hobbsee is forgetting some of the launchpad quirks.
<ScottK> I'd settle for Hobbsee agrees to hunt someone down and make them do it before the deadline.
<Hobbsee> i'm not their boss, i cant really hunt them down.
<Hobbsee> but i'd expect that they would, yes
<RAOF> ScottK: Taking *ages* to build.  Current load: 25.93
<ScottK> RAOF: It does that.
<ScottK> persia: So if I upload this and it the new package never makes it, are we better or worse off than if I don't upload it (snort).
<persia> ScottK: i386 users are worse off.  Everyone else is the same.  All users can `apt-get install --build snort` and get a working system.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: we'll find someone.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.
<Hobbsee> even if i have to accept it, then someone else has to override.
<ScottK> Well the syncpackage script made a useable .changes file, so I can do the upload.
<ScottK> Hobbsee and persia: Unless one of you says don't, I'm going to dput snort momentarily.
<ScottK> OK.  Done.
<persia> ScottK: please also update bug #152205
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152205 in snort "Please sync snort 2.7.0-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152205
<ScottK> persia: Done
<persia> (never mind)
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<ScottK> No problem.
<persia> Any fortran people around?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I got the Waiting for approval mail for snort, so over to you as far as getting the RM and New stuff done ...
* persia requests assistance with the semidef-oct FTBFS: it needs a build-dep update for fortran, but the Debian fix doesn't work in Ubuntu.  See Debian bug #432376 for details.
<ubotu> Debian bug 432376 in semidef-oct "semidef-oct: FTBFS: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgfortranbegin" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/432376
<persia> Are updates to native packages considered New Upstream Versions?
<ScottK> persia: Not really, but if it's big or scary asking isn't a bad idea.  Personally, I'd say as long as your sure you don't want someone to share the blame, go ahead.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  I just wanted to make sure to comply with the procedures: if it was about blame, I would have just uploaded just about everything I've touched in the past couple days.
<ScottK> Understand.  It's just a bit of a grey area.
<ScottK> I think I've done enough damage for one night, so I'm off to bed.  Good night all.
<ScottK> RAOF: If eclipse builds and installs, I'd say upload it.  I don't see a downside risk.
<persia> Anyone around looking for a bitesize bug for Hardy?
* persia requests assistance with rkward.  See http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs for a list of issues that need verification.
<nxvl> hi
<nxvl> anyone here?
<persia> nxvl: Heaps of people are here, but not everyone is watching :)
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> u'r right
<nxvl> i want to help fixing bugs on gutsy
<nxvl> i have patch some bugs before
<nxvl> but i don't know launchap very well
<persia> nxvl: That'd be great.  We're really close now, so only certain bugs are getting approved.
<persia> Would you like to help track down the release critical bugs fixed in Debian, that may be open in Ubuntu?
<persia> Basically, one works from http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs.  Look for a package that doesn't have a comment.  There are roughly four classes of bugs: the easiest to check are those that report "FTBFS" (failed to build from source).
<persia> The easiest way for you to help would be to download the latest gutsy sources for the packages that might FTBFS on a gutsy system, and try to build them.  I'm happy to help if you have any questions.
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> i will start now
<nxvl> thnx
<persia> nxvl: Thank you.  I'm working from the bottom, so I'd suggest starting from the top.  That way if we have a collision, we'll know we're done :)
<nxvl> he
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> persia: you are fixin FTBS too?
<persia> nxvl: Sometimes.  For every bug in this list, there is a fix available from Debian, so usually one doesn't need to hunt and fix it.  Sometimes the new Debian version is a new upstream version, and then it requires deeper investigation, and a local Ubuntu fix.
<nxvl> persia: i found one on eclipse, but it seems its done, am i ok?
<persia> nxvl: I think RAOF is working on that one.  Try the next one :)
<nxvl> persia: so, what you are saying is that i only need to find the debian patch?
<nxvl> am i right?
<persia> nxvl: For most of the packages, I find that the Ubuntu version doesn't actually FTBFS, so I just report that version X builds successfully in the comment.  If the Ubuntu version FTBFS, and Debian doesn't have a new upstream version, and there aren't local Ubuntu changes, I try building the Debian version.
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> i will check, i need to go out some minutes y will brb
<persia> If there are local Ubuntu changes, or a new Debian upstream version, one needs to try to merge the FTBFS fix into the Ubuntu package.  These are the hardest - I'd skip them unless you're really good at troubleshooting build problems.  We can always go back once we've marked all the ones that aren't a problem.
* Hobbsee stabs tax returns
* persia wonders if the no spindling notice will require a new set be prepared
<Hobbsee> they're done online ;P
* persia is impressed by Hobbsee's virtual sharp implement
<minghua> Virtual sharp implementation is what Hobbsee is famous for.
<Hobbsee> yes, the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<minghua> BTW persia did you fix esniper?
<persia> minghua: No.  Dima did.  Dktrkranz made a .deb, bddebian tried to buy the ISO, and imbrandon sniped.
<minghua> Yeah, I saw the auction sniped, so I figure it has a good chance to have been fixed.
<persia> minghua: Thanks a lot for hosting the auction.  Without that we couldn't have tested.
<minghua> persia: No problem.  You are the one should be thanked since you started the whole thing.
<persia> Nah.  Blame ajmitch.  He wrote the rc buglist hosting software
<ajmitch> yes, blame me, there's nothing else I do
<Hobbsee> exactly
* Hobbsee blames ajmitch for soyuz bugs.
* ajmitch sighs
<ajmitch> I see you have mad archive powers now
<Hobbsee> yeah, but i cant use them.
<Hobbsee> or at least, have been asked not to use them.
<Hobbsee> although technically i can probably still accept translations fine :P
<lucas> ajmitch: do you still plan to work on your debian packages, or should they be orphaned, like pnet* ?
* persia wants a launchpad preference to always get the "complicated bug filing form"
<ajmitch> just orphan the lot of them then
<Hobbsee> persia: use https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug-advanced
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, +filebug-advanced, not filebug
<Hobbsee> you can probably write a greasemonkey script for it
<persia> Hobbsee: Yes.  I use that every time.  I'd just like to be able to do something in http://launchpad.net/~persia/<whatever> to make it default.
<Hobbsee> persia: greasemonkey script to make launchpad not suck.
<Hobbsee> or file less bugs.
<Hobbsee> persia: filing via email is good too
<persia> Hobbsee: Umm...  There's got to be a third way.
<persia> s/third/fourth/ : email bugs are ugly
<Hobbsee> heh
<nxvl> im back
<nxvl> persia: can we patch a bug together so i can undestund better the proces?
<nxvl> process*
<persia> nxvl: Sure.  Look for an FTBFS bug, and let me know the package name.
<nxvl> persia: pam-krb5-migrate
<thekorn> persia, you could use python-launchpad-bugs for filing bugreports, like
<thekorn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugHelper/Dev/python-launchpad-bugs/Bug#head-27dc45b0392cc14364bd08fc4484df026122c91f
<persia> nxvl: That one has a comment, so someone started looking at it.  It indicates that someone needs to file a UVFe, so the first step is to look for any open or rejected UVFe request for the package in Launchpad.  The leftmost link on the bug line goes to the LP bug page.
<persia> thekorn: Could you point me to an example bug filed with p-l-b?
<nxvl> persia: mm, so where is that i need to look for a uncommented FTBFS bug? open the debian bug and looking whats there?
<nxvl> persia: say in other word, search for an uncommented bug, read the debian bug report and then search if it's FTBFS?
<persia> nxvl: Exactly.  If there's no comment, it either means that nobody looked at it yet, or nobody bothered to report what they discovered.  Do you want to continue with pam-krb5-migrate, or choose a different bug?
<nxvl> s/sword/swords(/g
<nxvl> persia: chose a diferent bug, so i start from the beginning
<thekorn> persia, I'm filing all bugreport with py-lp-bugs , for example bug 150643
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 150643 in python-launchpad-bugs "bug.sourcepackage is not 'None' if there is no package specified" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150643
<persia> nxvl: OK.  Let me know which package.
<nxvl> persia: ok
<nxvl> persia: searching
<persia> thekorn: That looks nice?  Thanks.  I'm a little fixated on my workflow for gutsy, but I'll certainly start with that for hardy.
<persia> s/?/!/
* persia gleefully plans the final removal of libxaw6
<nxvl> persia: i found a FTBFS but for ppc and i have no ppc
<persia> nxvl: OK.  Keep looking...
<nxvl> persia: that was the cuestion
<nxvl> persia: :D
<nxvl> persia: asterisk-oh323
<persia> nxvl: OK.  The first step is to try to build the Ubuntu version in gutsy.  You can easily download the source by running dget with an argument of the URL for the first "Grab" entry.
<nxvl> persia: i can't use apt-get source?
<persia> nxvl: That works too.
* persia finds it easier to type 'dget' than 'apt-get source' when the rest is copy & paste
<Hobbsee> thekorn: that looks nice!
* Hobbsee notes that this may well end up being a way of what she wanted to do with the launchpad bug sync requests
<persia> Most of my bugs are sync requests.  If you find a way to automate it that doesn't make for ugly bugs, and let's me complete the Rationale section, I'll be very happy.
<persia> ls
<Hobbsee> id ont work on launchpad :)
<Hobbsee> i just bug them when it doesnt work.
<Hobbsee> and tell them that they're on crack occasionally
<persia> Hobbsee: Don't underestimate the value of persistent communication - it's accomplished more than all the coding put together.
<Hobbsee> well, yeah.  that's probably part of the reason why thye documentation is getting somewhat sane
<nxvl> persia: it necessary only a "make" doesn't it? i don't need to 'make install' it doesn't i?
<persia> nxvl: It's necessary that one of debuild, pdebuilder or sbuild successfully compiles the package.
<nxvl> persia: i'm kind of lost
<persia> nxvl: Have you ever built a package before?
<nxvl> persia: i don't need to 'make' it? instead of that i only need to debuild it?
<persia> nxvl: debuild will call make (and other things), depending on the contents of debian/rules.
<nxvl> persia: build a package as in make a .deb package?
<persia> nxvl: Yes.  Convert a .dsc package into a .deb package.
<nxvl> persia: oh! no i haven't
<nxvl> persia: well, i have, but really long time ago
<nxvl> persia: and don't remember it well
<persia> nxvl: My apologies then - I've assumed too much.  You probably don't want to try to learn that chasing RC bugs in the last day before the hard freeze :)
<nxvl> persia: i want to learn
<nxvl> persia: i have made it, but long time ago
<nxvl> persia: and i think with your help i can make it
<nxvl> :D
<persia> nxvl: It's probably too late for gutsy, but I'll recommend you work on some patches for some bugs that will get included in hardy.  One to start might be turning https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002448.html into a bugreport, making a patch, and preparing a debdiff.  There's some documentation on some of the tools in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<nxvl> persia: ok, the i will start reading
<persia> nxvl: Great.  If you have any questions, ask in here.  I warn you that it will be a few weeks before any patches get uploaded to hardy, but there's still ~30,000 bugs that won't get fixed in gutsy, so there's plenty to do in the meantime.
<nxvl> persia: so, i can still help bugfixing gutsy for some months after the release?
<luca> hi everyone
<persia> nxvl: Yes, but the criteria for getting a fix into gutsy after release is much higher.  To start, I'd recommend working on hardy to get familiar with the tools.  Once you're comfortable, chasing the security bugs and severe breakage that got into gutsy should be easier.
<luca> I would like to add a little hack to knetworkmanager
<nxvl> persia: ok, so i have plenty of work for the next 6 months :D
<persia> luca: Does it fix a severe bug?
<Hobbsee> persia: see -devel
<luca> but I know very little about programming - could someone help me out or point me to some good starting resources? :)
<luca> persia: it's an annoying and I would say show-stopper bug for kubuntu
<persia> luca: This isn't really the right forum for learning about programming.
<luca> where then? :=
<luca> :)
<persia> luca: I'd suggest a web resource (start with searching for the major toolkit and programming language for your target software).  IRC isn't a very good place for that.
<luca> ok thanks
<persia> luca: If it's a showstopper bug, you'd do best to get all the info about it reported to launchpad.  It's not easy to learn programming, and the release is happening very soon now.
<luca> persia: I already did
<luca> two or three weeks ago
<luca> it's a bug which prevents knetworkmanager to successfully connect after suspension unless it is switched first to offline mode and then again to online mode
<luca> I guess that a simple hack making it doing this automatically could patch (very badly maybe ;) ) the problem, so I wanted to give the idea a try.....but I cannot as I do not how :)
* Hobbsee notes that knm *does* usually autorestart, and connect, after suspend, at least last time she checked.
<luca> Hobbsee I am using the 0.2 version in gutsy
<luca> if you are using the 0.1 then yes that had not this bug
<luca> (had lots more though ;) )
<pochu> *waves*
<luca> bye
<pochu> anyone can reject my last mail to -motu and -motu-mentors ML? should be in the mod queue...
* persia seeks assistance triaging the RC bugs list
<persia> Anyone familiar with python-scipy?  Does Debian bug #444124 still apply?
<ubotu> Debian bug 444124 in python-scipy "fftpack/_fftpack.so: undefined symbol: zfftnd_fftw" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/444124
<Kmos> ScottK is more familiar with that
<persia> Kmos: You like compiling things, don't you?
<Kmos> persia: i can do it if you need something
<persia> Kmos: I'm trying to make sure that none of the FTBFS bugs that Debian fixed are still in gutsy.  I'm working from http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs.  Would you mind looking at some of the packages with no comments, and seeing if the gutsy version FTBFS when the bug is a FTBFS bug?
<Kmos> persia: i got some time now, i can handle it
<persia> Kmos: Great.  Thanks.
<DktrKranz> persia, did esniper work?
<persia> DktrKranz: Yes.  Completely.  Thanks for the build.  We're now waiting on the archive-admins to sync it.
<DktrKranz> good :)
<DktrKranz> you're looking at FTBFS... is it still an issue if Ubuntu version builds fine? I never managed them in such cases
<persia> DktrKranz: I'm specifically looking at the list of Release Critical bugs fixed in Debian where Ubuntu has an older revision.  Lots of them are FTBFS bugs.  Debian usually has patches, so it's not hard to fix.  The important part is separating out the 20% that need attention from all of those that don't really apply to Ubuntu.
<DktrKranz> I looked at them some time ago, as you said, the majority does not need love
<DktrKranz> but there are probably some good candidates, especially with CVE in evidence
<persia> DktrKranz: I've only found a few CVEs, and I think we've pushed them all to gutsy now.  Now it's just the "Serious" bugs left.
<DktrKranz> good
<DktrKranz> IIRC, \sh looked at them carefully
<Kmos> persia: doko is alive, maybe you can ask him to sync.. don't know if he can
<persia> DktrKranz: That explains why I could only find a couple missing :)
<DktrKranz> heh
<persia> Kmos: No rush.  They're in queue, and the admins will sync when they have time.
<Kmos> ok
<Kmos> tomorrow :)
<DktrKranz> persia, if you find some and you haven't time to process them, please ping. I will be happy to have a look at them
<persia> DktrKranz: CVE's or checking RC bug status?
<DktrKranz> CVEs
<Kmos> persia: http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/asterisk-chan-capi/news/20070922T161702Z.html -> isn't this one a good candidate for sync ?
<persia> DktrKranz: I doubt I'll find anymore, where I'm looking.  Thanks though.
<persia> Kmos: We don't need to sync that - ours is already built against asterisk-dev 1:1.4.4~dfsg-3ubuntu1.
<persia> Kmos: Look for bugs where there's no comments first: those need more attention.
<Kmos> persia: ok
<DktrKranz> Kmos, can you reach packages.qa.debian.org? I have some troubles right now
<geser> DktrKranz: I can reach the Debian PTS here
<RAOF> How long should eclipse take to build?  TIt's still going!
<man-di> RAOF: looooooooooook
<RAOF> Also, this bux get's a little bit unrsponsive when the load average is > 20
<man-di> RAOF: it needs incredible much memory with current settings in aotcompile.py (from java-gcj-compat-dev)
<Kmos> DktrKranz: I can too..
<man-di> RAOF: I'm currently speaking with doko how to improve this
<RAOF> man-di: It's a little hard to check the spelling when it takes > 1 min between typing stuff in and it getting seen :)
<man-di> RAOF: I know that feeling
<man-di> RAOF: It eats all my 4 GB memory in the current default settings and still OOMs after a while
<geser> RAOF: the i386 and amd64 Ubuntu buildds needed 90 and 100 minutes to build eclipse the last time
<man-di> geser: with gcj-4.1 I needed 18 minutes on my box...
<man-di> geser: with gcj-4.2 its unbuildable, I needed to limit the build to one CPU
<white> !info nagios-plugins gutsy
<ubotu> nagios-plugins: Plugins for the nagios network monitoring and management system. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.4.8-2ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 87 kB, installed size 164 kB
<white> someone should check, if CVE-2007-5198 is fixed
<ubotu> Buffer overflow in the redir function in check_http.c in Nagios Plugins before 1.4.10 allows remote web servers to execute arbitrary code via long Location header responses (redirects). (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-5198)
<persia> DktrKranz: You wanted a CVE?  This is open and needs attention.
<persia> white: Thanks for pointing it out.
<DktrKranz> \o/
* DktrKranz looks
<white> persia: that is one of the links, which should be observed by the ubuntu universe sec team :)
<white> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/secure-testing/data/NMU/list?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<white> the other one would be this one:
<white> http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/secure-testing/data/CVE/list?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<persia> white: Thanks for those.  We've caught a few, but miss a lot.
<white> persia: and I am not really the best ambassador and forget to forward a lot as well, sorry :/
<white> !info dircproxy gutsy
<ubotu> dircproxy: IRC proxy for people who use IRC from different workstations. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.5-5ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 118 kB, installed size 268 kB
<persia> DktrKranz: Could you make sure those links get to the rest of the team?  I don't see them listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Security
<white> !info dircproxy sid
<ubotu> dircproxy: IRC proxy for people who use IRC from different workstations. In component main, is optional. Version 1.0.5-5.1 (sid), package size 114 kB, installed size 256 kB
<persia> white: No worries.  We're not necessarily as organised as we could be regarding pulling the good bits.  We tend to sync at the start, and then fiddle.
<DktrKranz> persia, should we add http://security-tracker.debian.net too?
<white> DktrKranz: yes, that is the main source for the testing-security team
<Fujitsu> white: I uploaded the dircproxy fix to Gutsy a couple of hours after you mentioned it in here and talked with \sh.
<persia> DktrKranz: That sounds good.  Ideally we'd want something like http://django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs to track the status, but someone would have to determine how to scrape the resources and write the interface.
<white> Fujitsu: hi :)
<white> Fujitsu: wanna look into xorg-server for a DTSA? :)
<DktrKranz> ok, I'm after a potential SRU, a couple of minutes and I'll have a look at wiki pages
<Fujitsu> white: Sorry, really busy with school stuff at the moment (and for the next couple of weeks).
<white> no worries, good look with school :)
<white> DktrKranz: you look like the man for xorg-server ;)
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<DktrKranz> persia, it will be very useful! IIRC, debian uses changelog entries to determine if a CVE has been fixed or not
* persia thinks we do that as well
<DktrKranz> white, but I'm not :P
<white> DktrKranz: well, we use the tracker you just pointed out
<white> DktrKranz: if the CVE is mentioned in the changelog, it helps us a lot spotting, which version fixes the issue
<DktrKranz> unluckily, several CVEs are still "open" even if they have been fixed upstream
<white> DktrKranz: well forwarding the patches to BTS helps a lot
<white> DktrKranz: and ping me for every issue, if you want. We can arrange some uploads :)
<white> if approrpiate
<Hobbsee> hiya white
<white> Hobbsee: hi :)
<white> thought I join in your party for a few hours ;)
<DktrKranz> white, are you referring to NMUs?
<white> DktrKranz: yes
<Hobbsee> white: woo!
<DktrKranz> white, could I prepare them even if I'm not a DD?
<white> DktrKranz: yes, you need a sponsor though
<white> forwarding the patches to BTS would maybe be a bit faster
<DktrKranz> ah, nice to know, I did'n realize that before. thanks :)
<DktrKranz> *didn't
<white> well we are very concerned about fixing security issues in testing (and unstable)
<fms> hi all
<RAOF> ...eclipse continues to build, but now isn't thrashing swap at least...
* persia wonders if anyone has pam / kerberos setup and would be willing to test something.
<_polto_> hello all
<DktrKranz> I'm definitely having network troubles...packages.qa.debian.org nor cve.mitre.org are reachable...
<persia> DktrKranz: They work from here, so I suspect it's a continental problem or smaller
<luk_> white: you are also over here :-)
<DktrKranz> or on a provider basis, I asked on IRC and they seem reachable for someone
<DktrKranz> I'll try to use a proxy or some
<persia> DktrKranz: Could be.  You can't be doing too badly, or you'd have difficulty with IRC presence.
<_polto_> Fujitsu, hello. I come back on Elphel cameras. :) Last things i have seen on mplayer ML is http://lists-archives.org/mplayer-dev-eng/19797-allow-elphel-cameras-to-work.html & http://lists-archives.org/mplayer-dev-eng/19858-allow-elphel-cameras-to-work.html
<_polto_> Fujitsu, did you had some time to evaluate the possibility to include this patch in ubuntu's mplayer ?
<white> luk_: i am practically everywhere :)
<white> luk_: and of course i need to spy here at the enemy ;)
<DktrKranz> :)
<persia> white: enemy?
<luk_> persia: just a joke
<white> persia: well don't you know that dds do not like ubuntu and no dd would ever come into an ubuntu channel?
<white> persia: haven't you read the stories about that?
<Fujitsu> _polto_: I've been really busy with school stuff lately, and will be for the next few weeks (exams for my last year of school coming up).
* Fujitsu gives a battle cry and chases the evil DDs out.
<white> Fujitsu: i hope that you are applying for la trobe ;)
<white> that is, if you are going to study :)
<Fujitsu> white: Not quite sure what I'm going to apply for at this time.
<white> Fujitsu: apply for living on campus and come to my college here :)
<white> i could use another OS developer :)
<_polto_> Fujitsu, ok, just pls do not forgot about, or just transfer the tusk to somebody :)
<_polto_> Fujitsu, and good chance!
<Fujitsu> _polto_: Non-school stuff is on the backburner at the moment, but I won't forget about it.
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: good luck with your exams!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Thanks... almost there now.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Best of luck!
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Danke.
* white is not wishing him luck, cos he is a smart boy and gets an A anyway ;)
<Fujitsu> Bwaha.
<persia> I'll be stopping my RC bug attack soon.  Do I need to poke anyone about the motu-uvf, ubuntu-archive, and unapproved items, or will they be taken care of without advocation?
<Schnitz> i this the right place to request feedback for a newly created deb package? i've just done it the first time so i'd like to get some hints...
<persia> Schnitz: If it's a package you intend to submit for inclusion in Ubuntu universe, yes.
<Schnitz> persia: exactly. i've assigned a bug to myself yesterday and now i'm nearly finished doing the packaging but i'm not sure if i should just upload it to launchpad without showing anyone first
<DrKranz> persia, nagios-plugins vulnerability confirmed. I'll prepare a debdiff.
<lamego> Schnitz, I hope you do not expect it to be available for Gutsy :P
<persia> Schnitz: You'll want to upload to a PPA or to REVU.  I think REVU is better if you're not sure about the packaging.
<persia> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<DrKranz> white, nagios-plugins has not fixed in unstable yet, so I'll open a new bug report and attach a patch
<astimodeus> good evening peolpe, may I ask you a question?
<persia> DrKranz: Thanks.  I'll be away soon, but subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors and the security team (I forget the team name) to get the right people's attention.  You might also advertise the bug here.
<Schnitz> persia: thanks
<persia> astimodeus: Please do so (although we may not answer)
<astimodeus> I was wondering if i need to download beta versions of ubuntu to help with the development process or i can just  download the sources of what i want  to fix myself?
<persia> astimodeus: You can just download the sources of things you want to fix, but the fixes must be tested against the current development environment to be uploaded.
<astimodeus> yes that's obvious ^_^
<astimodeus> i've spent some time on the ubuntu wiki don't worry :D
<persia> astimodeus: There are a number of people who maintain a chroot or virtual environment with a current dev snapshot on a stable machine.  Unless you're really happy with seeing all the most recent bugs, that's probably easiest.
<astimodeus> yeah good idea
<astimodeus> :D
<astimodeus> i'm gonna get qemu or vmware then ;)
<astimodeus> thank you
<Schnitz> lamego: being honest i don't expect anything ;-)
<blueyed> ScottK: the debdiff for bug 135695 applies cleanly for me!? But it appears that the debian/php4-* files do not get removed, but only truncated (to 0 bytes).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135695 in php-interbase "FTBFS: depends on php4-dev, which has been removed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135695
<persia> blueyed: That's expected behaviour.  One must manually delete the 0 byte files after applying the debdiff.  The reason is that the diff.gz is not allowed to delete files, and debdiff adopts that behaviour.
<blueyed> ok, so the patch seems fine.
<blueyed> Can somebody please try, if the patch applies cleanly to php-interbase?
<persia> blueyed: patch applied cleanly here.
<blueyed> Thanks, persia. I'll resubscribe u-u-s then.
* persia sleeps, hoping for uvf and archive approvals overnight.
<Schnitz> eg
<Schnitz> could anyone please re-sync the revu uploaders keyring? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU says i should ask for that here after adding myself to the group (i also have a pgp key in my launchpad account)
<Hobbsee> yup
<Hobbsee> oh yay, i remember why one *doesnt* terminate this for any reason, now.
<Hobbsee> there we go, now it's working.
<xhaker> i have a question for the english speakers here
* TheMuso ponders what the getdeb post was trying to achieve.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: unsure.  recruiting, probably
<xhaker> sickest is a bad word or a good word?  i mean to describe something rad/extraordinary/awesome?
<Hobbsee> it's a good word
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: hrm. I've never really liked that project for some reason.
<Hobbsee> it's somewhat aol-speak-ish, though
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, well
<lamego> TheMuso, nothing, was an information email
<lamego> because there is a lot of misinformed people
<lamego> TheMuso, what is your reason ?
<lamego> and there is people which find that information valuable
<lamego> not to mention, that information and debating ideas, is part of the CoC
<TheMuso> lamego: Probably because its one more source where people can get packages that are not certified as quality packages.
<xhaker> Hobbsee, thank god. I woudn't want people to misinterpret this posting http://digg.com/linux_unix/PIC_The_Sickest_Ubuntu_booth_you_have_ever_seen
<lamego> TheMuso, do you have numbers to show against getdeb, is this is just another theory based argument ?
<Hobbsee> xhaker: :)
<TheMuso> lamego: No, its born from a personal distrust of any other repo than the Ubuntu official repos. My opinion of PPAs is the same.
<white> DktrKranz: i uploaded an NMU for nagios-plugins, it is in incoming
<DktrKranz> white, thanks
<lamego> TheMuso, some of the people which contributes to getdeb, does also contribute for Debian and for Motu, you mean you don't trust on such people just because they are participating on a non official project ?
<DktrKranz> I just prepared bug 152624, is it worth to upload it as a standalone fix or merge new version from Debian?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152624 in nagios-plugins "Buffer overflow in check_http.c (CVE-2007-5198)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152624
<DktrKranz> I will check impact for stable releases soon
<Hobbsee> lamego: no, it's not that we dont trust them, as they do unofficial stuff.  at least for one of them, we dont trust him, as we've seen some of his packaging, and his requests.
<TheMuso> lamego: Great for them. If I was to use getdeb, and determined that it was someone from Debian or Ubuntu MOTU/core dev, I'd feel more comfortable in using their packges. By this I mean, actual people who have upload rights to the repos. However, its the rest of the packages that I woud not be so trustworthy of.
<white> DktrKranz: wait and sync it from debian?
<lamego> you can have an abstract distrust, unless you are based on ideology and not on real factors
<lamego> can't
<Hobbsee> hint:  don't request things to be removed from ubuntu that are not in it in the first place.
<lamego> Hobbsee, you can't evaluate a team for 1 member, I could tell the same about the MOTUs :)
<TheMuso> I've seen first hand what 3rd party repos can do to other distros, especially a distro that has no great packaging standards or QA in place.
<Hobbsee> lamego: none of our MOTU's are that bad - or else they wont have MOTU for very long, let me tell you...
<TheMuso> Such repos has packages often of really really questionable quality.
<lamego> Hobbsee, try to be anonymous and chat with SteveK on one of his bad days :)
<TheMuso> s/has/had/
* Hobbsee hasnt seen StevenK file any crack requests.
* StevenK raises an eyebrow.
<StevenK> lamego: Explain.
<lamego> TheMuso, we have a clear statement of quality "Some of our packages do not meet Debian/Ubuntu QA requirements"
<lamego> StevenK, not again, we already had that debate, and I can assure you I am not the only one which contributes to Ubuntu, which finds you particular unpleasent on some debates
<lamego> anyway, we all have our share of bad temper some times
<Hobbsee> lamego: are you sure you're not confusing scottk and stevenk?
<Schnitz> i've built a package for tvbrowser (java application) i everything works fine with debuild
<Hobbsee> lamego: based on the fact that you've already mashed their nicks.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Probably.
<lamego> ops, it was ScottK
<lamego> sorry :P
<Schnitz> but when i try building with pbuilder it says: sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented
<lamego> StevenK, sorry, for the nick confusion
<ScottK> lamego: You're the one that said you didn't want to work on Ubuntu packaging because it was to much work to do it right.
<Schnitz> is it possible to get this license to work with pbuilder or is it generally not allowed to use the sun-java* packages for building java applications?
<lamego> ScottK, no, that is your interpretation, I said I don't want to work on Ubuntu packaging because I have other priorities and do not have enough time, that together with the fact that MOTU work is a time consuming task
<lamego> and is not that I don't want, is not that I do not have the required time
<TheMuso> lamego: Surely getdeb is also time consuming.
<lamego> yes, it is, and each of us does it owns choices, some people work on getdeb only, some people work on getdeb+ubuntu, some others on getdeb+debian, some others on debian+ubuntu, etc
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: apparently less so.  although, one may not end up doing as much testing, etc, perhaps?
<Schnitz> can anyone point me in the right direction please?
<lamego> regardless of my personal choice, getdeb work is available for debian, ubuntu, insert your preferred debian base distro here :)
<lamego> and, the most important, the users :)
<TheMuso> lamego: What are your requirements for package submission?
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: er, it's a pain.
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: better to use other java if you can - your package gets sent to multiverse, and it has to have manual fun when building
<blueyed> Schnitz: don't know really, but found this when googling: bug 45292
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 45292 in sun-java5 "sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/45292
<lamego> TheMuso, http://wiki.getdeb.net/Package_Building/Acceptable_package_policy
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: it's because pbuilder never presents you with the dialog saying "do you accept these terms?" when it's installing the build-deps, so the entire build falls over, as they never got an asnwer
<lamego> if you are referring to QA, I am doing it for every package that get's published
<Hobbsee> lamego: what types of thigns do you look for, in terms of QA?
<TheMuso> lamego: As soon as anybody uses a repository other than the official Ubuntu/Debian repo, or an official mirror, they should be aware that any package they install from a 3rd-party repo could break their system, and they won't get support from the distro team to get help to fix their problem.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Do you know if anyone is doing accepts just now?  I don't see any for uploads I did ~7 hours ago.
<Schnitz> Hobbsee: i could edit /etc/pbuilderrc and switch from noninteractive to readline
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: probably not yet
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: you probably could - but if it gets uploaded, it'll fail as well
<lamego> Hobbsee, 1 - build  and run time depneds (using a schroot), 2 - provides an acceptable copyright notice, 3 - functional tests when possible, 4 - menu entry
<Schnitz> Hobbsee: ok so you think i should try using other java...if that doesn't work i can't do packaging for tvbrowser?
<lamego> if the package is not acceptable, but the requirement is justified, I will rebuild the entire packaging process myself
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: yeah, try with the other one.  if it doesnt work, there are ways around it (but they're a pain)
<lamego> TheMuso, that is why getdeb does not provide a repository, if you break your system, is because you have selected a package on the getdeb web site
<Hobbsee> lamego: oh, so you dont end up testing upgrades or anything, because it's all deb files, not a repo
<Hobbsee> yes, i see hwo it could be less work, that way.
<lamego> TheMuso, getdeb packages have a ~getdeb~ tag, they can't be wrongly reported as official packages
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no idea. maybe
<TheMuso> lamego: Its got nothing to do with the version tag on the packages.
<lamego> Hobbsee, correct, our users were informed that they should remove all ~getdeb~ packages before upgrading to Gutsy
<Hobbsee> lamego: i actually meant between getdeb versions of packages, and such.  but that was going to be the next question :)
<lamego> Hobbsee, yes, I do also validate package upgrades, between getdeb package version upgrades
<lamego> if a package is complex, and we do not have the required skills to build it or test it, it does not get published
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i think the problem si that most people are thinking that it *is* a repository - which would (or should) naturally have a bit more QA
<TheMuso> lamego: So from that I am guessing you don't publish packages that need nweer versions of big infrastructure bits, such as libraries, so that you don't need to worry about conflicts/replaces/overrides?
<lamego> TheMuso, that is correct, we do not have enough human and technical to work on such packages
<lamego> TheMuso, we made a complete site re branding and slogan change 1 month ago, to avoid such confusions
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: do most of our bugs even come from getdeb?  i thought they were more from automatix and such.
<Hobbsee> for some reason, i dont see many getdeb bugs reported.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I don't know.
<lamego> automatix breaks people systems, getdeb does not, there were 4 seriously broken packages
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: and they appear to be somewhat sane, at least picking up most of the cases of packages not building, not upgrading, etc.
<lamego> which included a mime cache file
<lamego> I mean, broke, not sure about automatix QA improvement
<white> !info knowledgeroot gutsy
<ubotu> knowledgeroot: web-based knowledgebase system. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.8.2-2 (gutsy), package size 1266 kB, installed size 9416 kB
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the getdeb stuff is probably the most safe 3rd party lot of repos out there.
<white> !info knowledgeroot sid
<ubotu> knowledgeroot: web-based knowledgebase system. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.8.4-1 (sid), package size 1218 kB, installed size 8760 kB
<lamego> also, we do have a QA from users, which does help sometimes,  release comments , but this is most for runtime/functional QA
<white> there is a 0.9.8.4-1.1 version coming in containing a fix for CVE-2007-5156
<ubotu> Incomplete blacklist vulnerability in editor/filemanager/upload/php/upload.php in FCKeditor, as used in SiteX CMS 0.7.3.beta and probably other products, allows remote attackers to upload and execute arbitrary PHP code via a file whose name contains ".php." and has an unknown extension, which is recognized as a .php file by the Apache HTTP server, a different vulnerability than CVE-2006-0658 and CVE-2006-2529. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?
<Hobbsee> white: when will it be in?
<white> Hobbsee: just uploaded the NMU
<Hobbsee> white: great.
<white> should be able to backport the patch
<Hobbsee> ScottK: can you hit that with your sync script?   this is your first verbal irc ack, and you can do the other.
<TheMuso> lamego: Ok, you and Hobbsee have eased my concerns somewhat. I'm just not one to trust 3rd-party repos, no matter who is involved, since I've been badly burnt by such repos on other distros in the past.
<lamego> uff :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: of course, it helps that the ubuntu stuff will be prefered anyway.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: yeah.
<lamego> Universe is the core, getdeb is just an addon to Universe :P
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I could, but I'm leaving for church.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: after that is fine.
<ScottK> I'll look at it if I have keyboard time, but not sure when that'll be.
<TheMuso> Is anybody processing DktrKranz's nagios security bug?
<TheMuso> If not, I'll do it.
<DktrKranz> TheMuso, I'm preparing merge too since white just uploaded a NMU
<TheMuso> DktrKranz: Oh ok, I'll wait.
<DktrKranz> just a couple of minutes, then
<TheMuso> Sure.
<Schnitz> Hobbsee: in the tvbrowser wiki they say explicitly for ubuntu/debian that it is required to use the sun java implementation for running (and so building i think) tvbrowser because the free java implementations are not 100% compatible (and break tvbrowser)
<Schnitz> Hobbsee: another problem is that it requires java >1.5 and the e.g. blackdown is only at ~1.4
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: fair enough, then you'll have to use the sun-java, and i'tll have to go to multiverse
<Schnitz> Hobbsee: okay then i'll upload as soon as it builds using pbuilder using the sun java stuff, thanks for your assistance that is very friendly!
<TheMuso> Alright folks, I'm calling it a night. DktrKranz, sorry I am unable to help at this point.
<DktrKranz> argh... just finished :(
<DktrKranz> no problem then, I'll publish new debdiff to u-u-s
<RAOF> Ok.  I'll leave that building overnight.  With any luck, eclipse takes < 8 hours to build on an x86-64 with 1Gb of ram.
<man-di> RAOF: or OOMs before shortly before done because of not enough swap...
<man-di> after 8 hours of building
<Schnitz> how long does it take after i uploaded something to REVU till it appears on the http interface? i've uploaded maybe 10 minutes ago
<DktrKranz> Schnitz: IIRC, REVU is updated every 5 minutes
<Hobbsee> Schnitz: what did you upload?
<Schnitz> oh excuse me please i jost got an email that it was rejected because distro was unstable....think i should have used feisty but then the package checkers say that feisty is not a known distro
<Nafallo> Schnitz: gutsy or hardy I would say.
<Hobbsee> why do you want to use feisty?
<Nafallo> Schnitz: what are you trying to upload?
<Schnitz> i'm trying to upload something for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/102910 (fabian stietzel is my real life name)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 102910 in ubuntu "[need-packaging]  TV-Browser" [Wishlist,In progress] 
<Schnitz> please excuse me i'm new to packaging
<Hobbsee> well, you wont get that into feisty
<Schnitz> Hobbsee: no problem, then hardy? ;-)
<Hobbsee> yes, you want hardy
<Schnitz> i'm just trying to help, not trying to get something somewhere in asap or stuff like that ;-)
* Nafallo won't run hardy until he has more laptops ;-)
<Schnitz> ok i rebuild with hardy
<man-di> does hardy exist already?
<StevenK> Hardy does not.
<Schnitz> does not do what?
<Hobbsee> exist
<StevenK> It's named, it won't be created until Gutsy is out the door
<Schnitz> okay i see, so i now use gutsy because gutsy is still the current testing/unstable?
<Schnitz> i'd just like to upload my package to be able to get some feedback
<StevenK> For now, build against gutsy
<StevenK> If people ask, say you don't want it in Gutsy. :-)
<Schnitz> aha okay
<Schnitz> so i can upload it using gutsy?
<frafu> Hello, I am trying to build a source package for my ppa, but don't know what I should do with the Changelog file under in the debian directory. The changelog outside the debian directory already has several entries. Should I transfer the entries to the debian-changelog? If so, what tools should I use? (I created the debian dir with dh_make)
<lamego> Schnitz, this is not the right time to upload a new package to an official process, you would be better by just posting your building diff somewhere and ask for a MOTU review or mentoring
<lamego> right time as, in the release cycle
<Hobbsee> revu is a place for review...
<lamego> can a package be uploaded to revu for inclusion on hardy, now ?
<gnomefreak> frafu: no just add your changes to debian/changelog if there are CVE in source changelog adding them might be good as well but only the latest changelog entry
<frafu> As a later version will probably go to REVU, I would like to make it at once conform for it
<gnomefreak> frafu: for ppa add ~ppa1 to the end of the version
<frafu> Should I modify the changelog manualy?
<gnomefreak> can a motu please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=360 please
<gnomefreak> frafu: yes or dch -i
<gnomefreak> than go to it and add ~ppa1 and anything else it didnt add
<frafu> By the way, does the debian changelog refer to changes in the source or to changes to the packaging? (for example, it is the same source, but something is different in the source package)
<StevenK> It can refer to both
<StevenK> It usually refers to the latter only.
<frafu> ok;  thanks
<Schnitz> i've put all the stuff dput would upload in a tarball: http://www2.ba-horb.de/~i06015/tvbrowser_deb.tar.gz
<Schnitz> i'd be glad to recieve any feedback, if you like write an email to fabian@schnitz-online.de
<lamont> Hobbsee: nope.  both syncing snort and dropping the arch:all cecilia are archive tasks
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<lamont> PaS only affects where we build things
<Hobbsee> ahh
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> I'm working on a program that has some plugins (non-executable sh/bash scripts). Where should they go? /usr/share/<app name> ?
<geser> yes
<RainCT> ok, thx
<frafu> The copyright field in debian/copyright: Does it refer to the person who implemented the propgram or to the packager? I suppose the packager; can anybody confirm?
<RainCT> frafu: copyright field?
<frafu> yes
<RainCT> frafu: what do you mean? debian/copyright has no fields as far as I know, you just write all copyright information (both, of the program, and the package) there the way you want
<frafu> there is a template for the upstream, and another one named copyright
<frafu> ok; I set both, author and packager
<RainCT> frafu: here you have an example http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gbrainy/gbrainy_0.2-2/gbrainy.copyright
<geser> frafu: debian/copyright contains both (packager and upstream) but the greatest part is about upstream copyright (and license)
<frafu> It is a bit different from the template created by dh_make; but I see that the format is not strict; i will put upstream and packager into it; both GPL
<frafu> By the way, the packager information has been put in automatically by dh_make.
<geser> frafu: debian/copyright is freetext but most files have a similar layout and look
<frafu> ok
<jdong> there's a few developers that have macbooks, right?
<amachu> bluekuja: ping
<Nafallo> jdong: should be one or two in the world :-)
<bluekuja> amachu: heya
<Hobbsee> a few of them, yeah
<jdong> Nafallo: hehe :)
<jdong> it almost worked out of the box with Gutsy... :)
<jdong> minus needing madwifi svn
<jdong> rigth now , I'm tryin to figure out how to enable palm detection of the touchpad
<jdong> the xorg.conf synaptics parameters don't have any effect
<amachu> bluekuja: yet to start work.. was held up with things a little..
<amachu> ping you as and when needed..
<amachu> :-)
<amachu> bluekuja: you there?
<bluekuja> amachu: ye
<amachu> bluekuja: :-)
<highvoltage> hey bluekuja
<frafu> I got a few warnings from debuild -S -sa. Could anybody please tell me what this warning means: dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<bluekuja> heya highvoltage
<bluekuja> how are you jon?
<jdong> WHOOO!!
<jdong> found the bug tha fixes my Intel panics
<bluekuja> jdong: :)
<jdong> ok, now last thing to tackle... battery life
<highvoltage> bluekuja: ugh, I have my ups and downs :)
<bluekuja> highvoltage: same here, what's up?
<frafu> And this which is probably more serious: W: mousetweaks source: debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error line 56
<bluekuja> highvoltage: do you still have a planet on your website?
<highvoltage> bluekuja: playing catch-up on work, for months now. just getting a bit frustrated
<highvoltage> bluekuja: nope
<highvoltage> bluekuja: I'll add one again in the future, the old one started to give some problems so I just took it off
<Hobbsee> yay, catchup
<highvoltage> Hobbsee: yay! someone that understands!
<bluekuja> highvoltage: oh that's why I cannot see it anymore
<frafu> But the binary builds under pbuilder
<highvoltage> bluekuja: yep. your blog was on there, but I think you only ever made one post, right?
<frafu> I suppose that I can ignore the warnings!?
<bluekuja> highvoltage: I deleted it, created an italian one, and some days ago made a new english one
<highvoltage> bluekuja: aah
<bluekuja> highvoltage: that's why only one post got published there
<highvoltage> bluekuja: where's your new blog? I'll update my rss reader...
<bluekuja> highvoltage: it's on blog.ibluepaper.com
<bluekuja> highvoltage: you can grab the feed there
<bluekuja> highvoltage: some news for that edubuntu-website discussion?
<bluekuja> highvoltage: I see no more posts on the mailing list
<highvoltage> bluekuja: each time we make some progress we have a setback and things get stalled a bit
<bluekuja> highvoltage: there will be a meeting for that?
<highvoltage> bluekuja: what's encouraging though, is that there's a better localisation plugin for drupal that will allow us to translate the site like we wanted to do waaay back
<highvoltage> bluekuja: none scheduled, that I know of
<bluekuja> highvoltage: oh cool! we talked about that plugin something like 1 year or more ago
<highvoltage> yep, but back then it was quite buggy and didn't work very well
<bluekuja> highvoltage: edubuntu-it is going great, forum and website area are alwais up-to-date
<highvoltage> bluekuja: excellent!
<bluekuja> highvoltage: and I received a lot of mails from several teachers in Italy
<highvoltage> bluekuja: we also have a lot more people willing to translate the site, in a few weeks I want to start a translation drive
<bluekuja> highvoltage: nice to hear, really, ping me for the italian part of translations
<bluekuja> highvoltage: so I can organize myself with italian translators here
<highvoltage> bluekuja: ok, sounds good
<highvoltage> bluekuja: I see you also became a motu recently- congrats!
<bluekuja> highvoltage: yeah! thanks a lot :)
<bluekuja> highvoltage: ok, I finish something here, feel free to ping me anytime, you're alwais really welcome to me
<bluekuja> :)
<ScottK> white: For knowledgeroot: do I want 0.9.8.4-1.1 or 0.9.8.5-1?
<highvoltage> bluekuja: ok, thanks :)
<bluekuja> highvoltage: ;)
<kagou> Hi
<kagou> i have problem using dput. I can't succesfully upload my files with (i precise : here at home). I suspect a router problem at home. Anybody have an idea ,
<kagou> ?
<pochu> uploading to where?
<kagou> pochu, to ppa
<soren> kagou: And what makes you think it doesn't work?
<kagou> at home i have a little internet connection (2Mb) and i always have problem. At work all is Ok (other reouter and 8Mb)
<Nafallo> 2Mbps up should be well enough
<kagou> sommer, my upload stop (monitoring upload), dput seems to freeze.
<kagou> if i use an ftp client like filezi_lla i have connection time out
<soren> It can take a while. How big is your .orig.tar.gz?
<kagou> not big
<kagou> 14 Mo
<kagou> and i can wait one night it will make no difference
<kagou> ;)
<soren> kagou: How long have you waited?
<jdong> 640KB/s up ought to be enough for anyone
<Hobbsee> jdong: try 128kbps
<jdong> poor Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> yeah....
<kagou> it's not a time problem
<kagou> i had time out with filezilla
<kagou> connection lost etc.
<Hobbsee> then ctrl+c it.
<kagou> is at active or passive connection with ppa ?
<kagou> ok. i try to sniff my connection. see you
<bluekuja> ScottK: around?
<bluekuja> ScottK2: around?
<blueyed> If there's only a bug fixed in a new Debian version, a sync request makes more sense than an Ubuntu patch, correct? (bug 152432)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152432 in duplicity "duplicity vs. ncftp" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152432
<geser> blueyed: is it still the same upstream version?
<blueyed> yes
<geser> then a sync should be possible
<blueyed> Yes, makes more sense of course. But I'm not sure, what's easier to ACK (and do). Filed as bug 152714.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152714 in duplicity "[sync request]  Please sync duplicity 0.4.3-4 from Debian" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152714
<bluekuja> ScottK: ping me when back please
<jussi01> anyone know where i can get information on future UDS's?
<ScottK> bluekuja: I'm here.
<bluekuja> ScottK: about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exaile/+bug/123409
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123409 in exaile "[exaile/gutsy]  crash in lib gtkembedmoz" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<ScottK> Yes.
<bluekuja> ScottK: I've added the patch posted there
<bluekuja> and tested it out
<bluekuja> it doesnt crash anymore
<bluekuja> on selecting sub-tabs
<bluekuja> like lyrics or  artist
<bluekuja> just wanted to hear an opinion from you
<bluekuja> as far as you followed that bug
<bluekuja> since the beginning
<ScottK> bluekuja: If you have a fix for a crash bug that you are confident of, I would upload it.
<pochu> bluekuja: listen had a similar bug, which was fixed in a similar way... :)
<bluekuja> pochu: oh cool :)
<pochu> I mean, it was crashing in the same function in gtkembedmoz, and adding MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=/usr/lib/firefox fixed it.
<bluekuja> ScottK: yeah, I thought you followed it closely
<bluekuja> pochu: yeah, it seems to be quite common
<ScottK> bluekuja: Not that closely.
<bluekuja> pochu: currently I dont know if the bug can be found on python too
<bluekuja> pochu: there are a lot of bugs around about that lib
<bluekuja> pochu: but that's a workaround to have exaile working
<pochu> bluekuja: I think that was reported on bugzilla.mozilla.org...
<bluekuja> ScottK: ok then, I ask to pochu to test it as well
<bluekuja> pochu: can you test something for me please?
<pochu> I think so.
<bluekuja> pochu: please apt-get install exaile
* pochu installs exaile
<bluekuja> ty
<pochu> hehe :)
<bluekuja> open it from terminal
<bluekuja> add a song in the active playlist
<bluekuja> then
<pochu> change to lyrics :)
<bluekuja> yeah
* pochu knows that bug from listen xD
<bluekuja> :D
<bluekuja> nice, so I dont have to explain everything
<bluekuja> does it core dump?
<pochu> bluekuja: ermh, were are the lyrics in exaile?
<pochu> hehe
<bluekuja> ^^
<bluekuja> pochu: right click on the song
<pochu> ah, ty
<bluekuja> move to information
<bluekuja> and you have statistics selected
<bluekuja> move to artist/lyrics
<bluekuja> and should crash
<pochu> yes, it does
* pochu applies the patch
<bluekuja> pochu: ok, now I give you a link
<bluekuja> pochu: I give you deb file
<bluekuja> so you can check it directly
<pochu> wow, that's better :)
<bluekuja> please purge everything
<pochu> done, link?
<bluekuja> pochu: http://incoming.ibluepaper.com/exaile_0.2.10+debian-1.1ubuntu2_i386.deb
<bluekuja> pochu: works fine?
<pochu> bluekuja: works fine now
<bluekuja> ok great
<bluekuja> uploading it then
<pochu> cheers
<bluekuja> thanks pochu for helping out
<bluekuja> ScottK: what time for the freeze tomorrow?
<ScottK> bluekuja: After 0001 UTC no uploads without motu-uvf approval.  After 1000 no uploads without release manager approval (assume that won't be forthcoming for anything in Universe).
<ScottK> bluekuja: See /topic
<bluekuja> ScottK: ok thanks, anyway fix has been pushed. We'll wait for the ack tomorrow
<ScottK> OK.  Those deadlines are for us to push.  Up to the RM when they accept.
<bluekuja> yeah, I guess the queue will be cleaned up
<bluekuja> and not left undone
<bluekuja> leaving now, good night ScottK
<ScottK> One hopes, but Universe stuff will come behind Main, so no guarantees.
<ScottK> Good night.
<bluekuja> yeah
<bluekuja> I hope it will be in, that crash is bad to have, really.
<bluekuja> cu tomorrow, take care
<ScottK> StevenK, soren, or zul: Please have a look at Bug #152590 and Bug #151699.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152590 in polyxmass-doc "Please sync polyxmass-doc 0.9.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152590
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151699 in gdc-4.1 "[UVFe]  gdc-4.1 0.25 new upstream release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151699
* persia seeks a second motu-uvf member to look at bug #152590
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 152590 in polyxmass-doc "Please sync polyxmass-doc 0.9.1-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152590
<Kopfgeldjaeger> n8
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-06
<ryanakca> I have an sbuild/schroot setup... I'm building a source package that provides multiple binaries, and I was wondering if it was possible to build only one of the binary packages (since I'm only testing an app included in one and I don't want to bother building the others)
<RAOF> ryanakca: Generally, no.
<ryanakca> RAOF: bummer, thanks
 * ryanakca does wish that there were a better way than to rebuild kdebase-runtime everytime he tries somethig
<RAOF> Does kdebase-runtime actually _support_ only building part of it?
<RAOF> Also, distcc and or ccache are likely to be your friend.
<ryanakca> RAOF: I had icecc before I reinstalled Intrepid... but this time around I foolishly took amd64 while all of the other computers on my LAN are i386... but I'll look into ccache, thanks :)
<Hobbsee> hmm.
<ajmitch> hm?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: eagles ban evasion, and me being incompetent at nick banning, it seems.
 * Hobbsee usually goes for hosts
<ajmitch> aha
 * ajmitch dodges the pointy stick
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: do a /lastlog eagles and you'll see why.
 * Hobbsee eyes the bantracker with interest, noting that some of the mroe recent trolls have been here under other nicks.
<slestak> i think i have spotted a problem with II breaking other releases.  is a kernel dev available to discuss?  I was at ubuntu+1 but no joy there
<slestak> when i installed II on sda2, i got xorg breakage on sda3 gutsy install.  nvidia driver would not load on the gutsy partition after reboot.
<wgrant> slestak: This isn't the channel.
<wgrant> slestak: Perhaps #ubuntu-kernel.
<wgrant> Unlikely #ubuntu-devel.
<wgrant> Definitely not #ubuntu-motu.
<slestak> wgrant: tyvm
<ajmitch> assuming it's a kernel problem at all...
<csilk>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libgtk2.0 which is a virtual package.
<csilk> according to packages.ubuntu.com it is NOT a virtual package
<csilk> any ideas whats happening here?
<wgrant> ajmitch: #ubuntu-kernel is more likely than here, at any rate.
<wgrant> csilk: -0
<wgrant> You're missing the -0 from the end.
<csilk> ahha, thats what happens you try packaging at 2:28 am.. thanks wgrant :)
<Elbrus> I have this package I am building (bug 172804), but it depends on bug 275688 and bug 276151
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 172804 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] winff - GUI ffmpeg batch video converter" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172804
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276151 in lazarus "Please sync lazarus 0.9.24-0-12 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276151
<Elbrus> especially the fpc sync is somewhat of an issue (newer upstream version)
<Elbrus> anybody who can tell me how I should procede with 275688?
<wgrant> Why do we want this for Intrepid?
<Elbrus> all packages work and build in my ppa
<wgrant> We are waaaay past FeatureFreeze.
<StevenK> And "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" doesn't make sense
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260464 in fpc "fp-units-gtk2 has undefined references due to GtkFileSystemError removal from GTK" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260464
<Elbrus> Ok, so I should wait till after Intrepid? What can I do in the mean time?
<wgrant> You can wait, or you can fix bugs. Ideally the latter. We need more bugfixes.
<Elbrus> StevenK: what should I do to clarify?
<Elbrus> wgrant: I have the fix for 260464, but I guess because of the newer upstream version it is not wanted?
<wgrant> Bug #260464
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260464 in fpc "fp-units-gtk2 has undefined references due to GtkFileSystemError removal from GTK" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260464
<wgrant> Elbrus: It looks fixed to me...
<Elbrus> wgrant: what do you mean?
<Elbrus> The problem is that the old version has more issues.
<wgrant> Bug #260464 appears to be fixed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260464 in fpc "fp-units-gtk2 has undefined references due to GtkFileSystemError removal from GTK" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260464
<Elbrus> wgrant: that is right, but the new version from debian had the same issue
<Elbrus> so I had to apply the same patch
<wgrant>   * Added dpatch to fix fp-units-gtk2 undefined references (LP: #260464)
<wgrant>    - Safe to drop on next sync, Debian has a fixed version
<wgrant> Doesn't look like it to me.
<Elbrus> disregarding the changelog mention, that is there because my package builds on debian
<Elbrus> I also reported bug 260464 and discussed that with jdong
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260464 in fpc "fp-units-gtk2 has undefined references due to GtkFileSystemError removal from GTK" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260464
<wgrant> That is the bug I'm talking about, yes.
<Elbrus> that is how that remark arrived in the changelog
<Elbrus> djong "gave up" on the current version and suggested I try syncing from debian
<Elbrus> that works for me :)
<wgrant> It looks more like he fixed it, to me.
<Elbrus> wgrant: what I mean, after the fix of bug 260464 my winff package still did not build due to errors, djong got worried and suggested the sync
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260464 in fpc "fp-units-gtk2 has undefined references due to GtkFileSystemError removal from GTK" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260464
<ScottK-laptop> I don't think jdong 'gives up'.  I think he gets distracted by other, shinier crack.
<wgrant> Elbrus: You said "I have the fix for 260464", but it's already fixed.
<Elbrus> ScottK-laptop: sorry, not given up, but he mentioned he "would regret that he was the last uploader".
<ScottK-laptop> Yeah.
<ScottK-laptop> I've been there.
 * wgrant too.
<Elbrus> wgrant: I mean, I have the fix for bug 275688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "Please sync fpc 2.2.2-3 (universe) with patch from bug #260464" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<ScottK-laptop> Remind me to never, ever sync python-numpy from Debian Experimental again.
<Elbrus> (my .diff is attached as patch to the bug)
<wgrant> Elbrus: We don't want a new upstream version without very good reason.
<Elbrus> wgrant: ok. I guess I just have to wait then.
<ScottK-laptop> Dear Launchpad: When I'm looking at the UBUNTU sponsorship bug list what posesses you to think I want to look at Debian or upstream bugs?
 * Elbrus goes to fixing other bugs :)
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: Launchpad has no idea that you are talking about Ubuntu. That team is a team - it has no affiliations with a distro.
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: You could filter /ubuntu/+bugs by subscriber.
<ScottK-laptop> wgrant: Or I could get grumpy and kvetch some more about how Ubuntu isn't a priority for LP developers.
<ScottK-laptop> Which would be more fun?
<wgrant> ScottK-laptop: That one sounds good too.
<ScottK-laptop> It's OK though, I'm currently focusing my ire on cbds.
<ScottK-laptop> Apparently if you've only a single binary package it considers the .install optional and just installs everything into the one package.
<ScottK-laptop> When you're trying to make an existing complex package only build one binary, that's not what I want.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: well I got scared with fpc when the proposed fixes started escalating to syncing the whole compiler stack from Debian....
<jdong> at first if just a 10-line patch fixed the problem that's within my comfort zone, but I've learned when to stop over these years I've been around :)
<ScottK-laptop> ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> BTW, I understand backports is calling to you jdong.
<jdong> ScottK-laptop: I've heard too; I'm trying to catch up on everything that has been bombarding me...
<CarlFK> what is the name of the #channel for media-ubuntu ?
<Elbrus> ScottK-laptop, jdong: it was not my intention get the name wrong, my first time remark was right. (but djong would be close to Dutch thats all ;)
<ScottK-laptop> Elbrus: I noticed the transposition, but figured it was a simple typo.  I'm just giving him grief.
<Elbrus> jdong: so I am sorry, I hope no hard feelings...
 * ScottK-laptop decides to finish the bag of dark chocolate peanut M&M's.
 * wgrant steals them first.
<jdong> Elbrus: ack my ping script isn't working; no hard feeling at all. Sorry I wasn't able to help you further with FPC
<jdong> Elbrus: it's just out of my comfort zone and I'd rather not make a mistake that affects other Ubuntu users arising out of my ignorant poking around :D
<RAOF> Hm.  Anyone want to comment on a possible gnome-do FFe?  Most of the diff is in adding new upstream icons, and it's now got a gconf schema which'll allow us to have it autostart without popping up on boot.
<RAOF> There are also some cosmetic fixes, and a bugfix that I'll want to grab reardless.
<RAOF> Gah.  Being upstream's release guy and a MOTU is often cool, but not so much here :)
<RAOF> Here's a diffstat http://paste2.org/p/82822
<Hobbsee> RAOF: got testing packages anywhere?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Not yet.  I can run them up easily if you'd like
<Hobbsee> RAOF: doesn't look like much of a difference.  *shrug*
<Hobbsee> RAOF: new icons are good.
<RAOF> I'm just cutting a tarball and building a testing package for you.
<Hobbsee> sweet.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: http://www.cooperteam.net/gnome-do_0.6.1.0-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<Hobbsee> RAOF: erm...
<RAOF> Oh... you'd like one of (a) source package or (b) i386?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: http://www.cooperteam.net/gnome-do_0.6.1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i386
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Right.  I'll just update my i386 builder.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: sorry :)
<RAOF> No problem :)
 * NCommander feels the urge to unleash his inner geek
<RAOF> NCommander: Review Do, then!
<RAOF> Whoops.  Need some debhelper gconf loving, apparently.
 * NCommander is debating how much he likes the Oxygen icons on revu
<ajmitch> Hobbsee's reviewing?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'll try it out :)
<ajmitch> shocking :)
<StevenK> NCommander: You were after me?
<NCommander> StevenK, I needed some help uploading things to Debian :-)
 * StevenK goes AFK
<NCommander> crap
<ajmitch> heh
<NCommander> ajmitch, there's got to be something in the DPM about running away from work
<siretart> ajmitch!! :-)
<ajmitch> siretart!
<ajmitch> how are you?
<siretart> I'm doing okay, how are you?
<didrocks> morning :)
<NCommander> siretart, I wanted to talk to you about the ghc transition
<ajmitch> good, busy
<ajmitch> same as usual :)
<siretart> NCommander: try sistpoty ;)
<siretart> same here
<NCommander> argh
 * NCommander fails
<NCommander> siretart, so when is people.ubuntuwire.colm returning
 * ajmitch thought that was imbrandon's box 
<siretart> I've been working on ffmpeg lately, that package is a source of enduring joy I tell you
 * siretart thought that as well
<siretart> you might want to ask imbrandon
<siretart> ajmitch: I just saw a question regarding authtool on ubuntu-devel, maybe you want to reply there?
<StevenK> NCommander: I'll upload stuff to Debian if you come to UDS.
<StevenK> :-P
<NCommander> StevenK, fine. Get me sponsorship
 * NCommander will fail out of an EMT class to get these things uploaded!
<StevenK> Haha
<ajmitch> siretart: yeah, it really should have a removal request put in
<NCommander> StevenK, there is a chance I can make FOSSCamp if I get sponsorship
<ajmitch> StevenK: even I uploaded something for him to debian
<NCommander> StevenK, he got free FTBFS fixes from me, redeemable in Debian, Ubuntu, Hurd, or Red Hat/CentOS/Fedora
 * ajmitch wonders if he can redeem it with openoffice.org on debian gnu/hurd
<NCommander> ajmitch, ooooh, that's just wrong.
<NCommander> ajmitch, Duke Nukem Forever will be released bytime OOo finishs building on Hurd
<ajmitch> it'd keep you busy for a bit
 * StevenK is trying to fix pacemaker
<StevenK> I managed to fix ksimus.
<NCommander> ajmitch, actually, we did port it for m68k ...
<NCommander> o_o;
<StevenK> Cacao I got working too
<NCommander> StevenK, whats wrong with pacemaker
<NCommander> StevenK, what my tip any help?
<NCommander> s/what/was/g
<StevenK> NCommander: No, since I'd managed to get it working when you re-surfaced :-P
<NCommander> sorry ;.;
<NCommander> pacemaker is FTBFSing, or something worse?
<StevenK> pacemaker is just packaging stuff
<NCommander> It's got an outstanding FTBFS bug :-)
<NCommander> StevenK, I've got a fix for makedumpfile
<NCommander> care to upload once I finish testbuilding
<StevenK> To sid or Intrepid?
<NCommander> intrepid
<NCommander> I know not to try you for sid uploads :-)
<NCommander> ajmitch, would you please review codeblocks for me if possible?
<NCommander> W: makedumpfile source: ancient-standards-version 3.2.0.0 (current is 3.8.0)
<NCommander> Damn
<NCommander> This package hasn't been touched in ages
<StevenK> I want to upload ksimus and pacemaker, but I need to fix pacemaker first
<NCommander> I have a debdiff ready for you
 * StevenK writes a .install file with the help of dh_install --fail-missing, grep, cut and sed
<NCommander> That's the way to do it
<NCommander> nice, gstreamer is broken
<NCommander> StevenK, can you also reset the build records on some packages on ia64 for me?
<NCommander> is there a flag to make gzip keep the original file?
<RAOF> Bah.  I was just looking in the wrong place.
<NCommander> RAOF, for what?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: http://www.cooperteam.net/gnome-do_0.6.1.0-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<RAOF> NCommander: For the gconf schemas the new package installed.
<StevenK> I wonder if this Do leaks like a sieve
 * StevenK hides from RAOF
<NCommander> RAOF, you know if anyone is working on the gstream FTBFS?
<RAOF> StevenK: No, we already fixed that gtk-sharp leak :P
<StevenK> RAOF: I know, I'm baiting :-)
<NCommander> How does a mono project leak?
<NCommander> Isn't C# susposed to have GC?
<StevenK> Like a sieve
<RAOF> Yes.  But the world is full of useful C libraries.
<RAOF> In particular, GTK!
<NCommander> Ew
<NCommander> StevenK, http://pastebin.ca/1220497 - plz upload :-)
<RAOF> This Do _also_ won't spontaneously consume a core.
<StevenK> Haha
<RAOF> It seems we also want to rebuild monodevelop-boo
 * NCommander needs to annouce his intent to remove gtk1.2 from the archive
<RAOF> But how will we install xmms! :P
<StevenK> NCommander: Why are you not calling dh_installman any more?
<directhex> but how will we use vmware!
<RAOF> directhex: Say _what_?
<NCommander> StevenK, because the makefile installs the manpage into the proper place. dh_installman is more for cases when the package provides a manpage that isn't included by upstream
<NCommander> (i.e., one you write and include in debian/*)
<directhex> RAOF, vmware-agent is the executable you run on a vmware guest to handle things like window-resize-desktop-resize linking. and last i checked, it was linked against gtk1.2
<NCommander> StevenK, so I'm creating a 160 task bug in Launchpad :-)
<StevenK> NCommander: Eeeek!
<StevenK> NCommander: Bad!
<NCommander> StevenK, removal of gtk1.2 tracking bug
<NCommander> I want gtk1.2 dead for jaunty
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% apt-cache rdepends libgtk1.2 | wc -l
<StevenK> 198
<NCommander> mcasadevall@blacksteel:~/src$ apt-cache rdepends libgtk1.2 | wc -l
<NCommander> 160
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> WTF is wrong with your setup :-)
 * StevenK haz Hardyz
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> I think its a worthwhile goal
<NCommander> no?
<StevenK> I think reducing what uses GTK 1.2 is worthwhile, but not removing it
<NCommander> why not on removing it?
<StevenK> Because 160 removals/ports is a large amount of work
<NCommander> so have it span multiple releases
<NCommander> And its less than 160, since there are about 20 theme packages, 5 for gtk1.2, some packages (e16menueditor for one) that probably can be removed, etc.
<StevenK> Have you discussed this with seb128?
<StevenK> And upstream? :-)
<NCommander> Upstream - Debian?
<StevenK> No, upstream being GTK upstream
<NCommander> didn't they stop supporting 1.2 yearsago?
<StevenK> I'm not sure
<NCommander> I'll talk to seb128
<NCommander> Although I would be curious to see if Launchpad could handle a 160 task bug without grinding to a halt
<directhex> can it handle a 16 task bug without grinding to a halt?
<StevenK> Yup
 * StevenK has played that game
<directhex> oh, yeah, no more loki installers for commercial games! :o
<StevenK> Nooooo
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> 160
<RAOF> So... no-change rebuilds _just_ add a build1 changelog entry, right?  No maintainer mangling, etc?
<StevenK> Right
 * RAOF uploads monodevelop-boo, then.
<RAOF> Actually, no.  Check for launchpad bugs first!
<StevenK> There's a bug?
<RAOF> No, there isn't.
<RAOF> I was just checking that.
<RAOF> Obviously no one uses it, or they'd have noticed that it's not installable.
<NCommander> RAOF, the best types of packages :-P
<NCommander> StevenK, so makecoredump ...
 * StevenK pushes the upload time back
 * NCommander pushes StevenK a time zone forward
<StevenK> I'm +11, there isn't much more forward
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Having gnome-do fun?
 * StevenK refuses to move to New Zealand
 * NCommander reachs down from the sky and drops StevenK somewhere in Washington State
<NCommander> :-)
<StevenK> NCommander: dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<NCommander> StevenK, the maintainer has an @canonical.com email ...
<NCommander> Ok, strictly speaking the policy says ubuntu.com ...
<NCommander> StevenK, I assume you want me to fix it
<ajmitch> StevenK: you know you want to move to NZ...
<NCommander> StevenK, I need to run for a few minutes, bbiab
<StevenK> NCommander: Nah, I can deal
<StevenK> NCommander: makedumpfile uploaded
<NCommander> Thank you StevenK
<NCommander> StevenK, question; is it possible to retroactively promote something to main to resolve a bug in a released version?
<StevenK> NCommander: Certainly
<StevenK> NCommander: Requires an MIR and approval from ubuntu-mir
<NCommander> StevenK, I think it was bumped in a later release to main
<mr_pouit> NCommander: that's the contrary (xubuntu was demoted to universe)
<NCommander> mr_pouit, but xubuntu was in main dapper/feisty/gutsy
<mr_pouit> yep
 * NCommander beats his head on his desk
<NCommander> can you recommend something in universe from main?
<NCommander> (I figure thats the next best alternative since it strictly speaking isn't a depends
<directhex> no
<directhex> suggests only, and no build-deps
<NCommander> Figured as much
<Hobbsee> RAOF: works nicely.  Nice icons.
<AnAnt> is DKMS something like module-assistant ?
<directhex> yes, but automagic
<directhex> i.e. no manual m-a a-i required on kernel updates
<AnAnt> ok, what should change in my package to support DKMS ? and is DKMS going to be used in Debian ?
<bigon> AnAnt, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=481590
<ubottu> Debian bug 481590 in wnpp "ITP: dkms -- Dynamic Kernel Module Support framework" [Wishlist,Open]
<AnAnt> that means, not yet
<AnAnt> anyways, what should change in my package to support DKMS ?
<liw> would anyone be willing to sponsor system-cleaner 1.10 from http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=system-cleaner ? it fixes fairly severe problems (wrong packages being removed, crashes in some circumstances)
<james_w> I'm looking at bug 242572, it looks like a bug fix version, but the upstream changelog is very terse
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<james_w> it builds fine, but there are no rdepends to test with
<james_w> anyone want to back me up in uploading, or suggest an alternative course of action
<james_w> ?
<cody-somerville> ScottK, it may just be me but the backport of pidgin seems to disconnect MSN when people add you to their contact list :P
<ScottK> cody-somerville: Talk to jdong.  I didn't do that one (I don't think).
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> Someone is asking in my LoCo's ML if it's possible to specify a fallback mirror in /etc/apt/sources.list... Is it?
<ScottK> RainCT: Can't you just point at two mirrors and the highest version number available will get downloaded?
<ScottK> I think that accomplishes that use case.
<wgrant> Won't apt fall through to any other mirrors with the same version?
<slytherin> RainCT: What do you eman by fallback mirror?
<slytherin> RainCT: I have IITM (IIT Madras) mirror in my sources.list as well as archive.ubuntu.com. Any package which is not available at IITM mirror is pulled from a.u.c.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<slytherin> superm1: are you planning to put bluez 4.11 in PPA?
<sebner> hoi bddebian
<slytherin> superm1: and when are we actually planning to bribe the release team to approve the exception? :-P
<bddebian> Hello sebner
<superm1> slytherin, it's in the ppa....
<slytherin> superm1: Ok. I didn't check today
<superm1> slytherin, along with bluez gnome 1.8
<slytherin> superm1: I don't know how much difference it is going to make for me. But still I will test it. What about the plan to actually get it into intrepid?
<superm1> slytherin, that will be up to slangasek
<slangasek> bribe early and often
<superm1> slytherin, i personally think the packages are in pretty good order and a significant improvement, etc.
<slytherin> superm1: Yes, in my opinion 3.x has many blues. So upgrading to 4.x is preferred provides it doesn't create more problems.
<RainCT> ScottK, wgrant, slytherin: OK, thanks. I wasn't sure if just listing two would work. (I didn't answer before because I'm at school right now :P)
<superm1> slytherin, did you get a chance over the weekend to look at a possibly tooltip patch?
<RainCT> 15
<slytherin> superm1: nah, I was in office on Saturday also and sleeping most of the day Sunday. :-)
<james_w> anyone running Intrepid have 5 minutes to test something for me?
<sebner> james_w: /me
<james_w> install xournal and try drawing with a mouse/trackpad
<james_w> thanks sebner
<james_w> ensure "Use XInput" is turned on in the menu
<sebner> james_w: kk
<Laney> works fine
<sebner> james_w: yep, fine
<james_w> just my system then it seems
<james_w> thanks, I'll upload
<ara> if any one is interested in testing infrastructure, cr3 is giving now a session at #ubuntu-classroom
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sebner> sistpoty|work: how is life going? :)
<sistpoty|work> sebner: quite good, and for you?
<sebner> sistpoty|work: now making 3 months of vacation :P
<sistpoty|work> sebner: wow, I envy you :P
<sebner> sistpoty|work: not if I tell you what I have to make after vacation :P
<sistpoty|work> heh
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<lucas> james_w: great work on xournal, thank you :)
<james_w> lucas: no problem
<james_w> lucas: did you get hit by the flood?
<sebner> james_w: btw, what now about wordpress?
<lucas> yup, I'm PTS-subscribed
<james_w> sebner: I didn't see your updated patch
<sebner> james_w: because there is nothing to update. the fix we were talking about is in the actual debian version we merge
<sebner> james_w: some days I alrady told that to you. maybe you missed it
<james_w> sebner: your merge included 2 security fixes, and one fix for a problem introduced by the first fix.
<james_w> A different bug about the first security fix was marked "Won't Fix"
<james_w> so either that was wrong and we want that fix, or we want to cherry-pick the second security fix
<iulian> Hi
<sebner> james_w: we didn't want it but as Debian now has it we get it automatically and it doesn't hurt us I think
<james_w> sebner: yes, but in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wordpress/+bug/269301/comments/3 it is suggested that we don't want the fix anyway
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269301 in wordpress "[CVE-2008-3747] - wordpress before 2.6.1 ssl problem might allow remote attackers to gain administrative access by sniffing the network for a cookie" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<james_w> what do you think?
<sebner> james_w: I think we just didn't want it apply manuelly but as now debian has the fix I think it's no problem to merge it
<james_w> sebner: that's not how I read it, and the debdiff in that bug actually references the Debian upload, suggesting it was made after the fix was uploaded to Debian
<sebner> james_w: well as I understand we backport ssl and fix it. or we don't backport ssl and wait until wordpress 2.6 which has ssl per default and fixed
<james_w> sebner: ok, please prepare an upload with just the latest security fix, leaving out the SSL stuff
<james_w> sebner: and update the merge bug accordingly please
<sebner> james_w: ai ai, Sir
<sebner> wait
<sebner> it's Ay Ay
<sebner> xD
<sebner> james_w: but for a better review I merge the acutal version und just disable the ssl fix. Seems a little bit easier and faster to me. Hope that's ok for you since you'll sponsor it
<james_w> make sure the changelog doesn't list the versions you didn't merge, and the version number is just an ubuntuX update from the current Intrepid version
<james_w> otherwise MoM may do the wrong thing
<james_w> other than that I don't mind how you get to the final diff :-)
<sebner> james_w: I'm wondering what speaks against a -8ubuntu1 version
<james_w> it could work I guess
<sebner> sure
<sebner> james_w: bug #277267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277267 in wordpress "Merge wordpress 2.5.1-8 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277267
<james_w> I'd prefer not to though
<sebner> bah :P
<james_w> also because merges are harder to sponsor :-)
<RoAkSoAx> are merges still going on?
<sebner> james_w: no excuses. you are a MOTU and I want to become one (next month) :)
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: sure, BUGfixing :P
<RoAkSoAx> sebner, so i can still do merges to fix bugs?
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: sure
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: of course
<RoAkSoAx> why didn't i know that before... lol :P xD
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: a merge of just about anything from Debian testing will be worthwhile
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: but new upstream versions aren't that often bufixes :P
<james_w> well, not just about anything, but many things
<sebner> james_w: mind sponsoring more of my future work to be able to comment on my application?
<james_w> sebner: stick it in the queue, and if it's good I'll sponsor it :-)
<RoAkSoAx> so should i just look for a package that needs to be bugfixed and then see in debian and merge it?
<james_w> sebner: anything else currently in the queue that is waiting for a sponsor?
<sebner> james_w: unfortunately not. that's why I said "future work"
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: you could look at MoM, and look at the changes in Debian and see if we want them
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: qa.ubuntuwire.com/rcbugs
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: BUT, you need a FFe anyway
<james_w> sebner: fix more bugs :-p
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: and the merge need to be a Bug fixing update
<sebner> james_w: I will :P
<james_w> nxvl: not for bugfix only merges
<RoAkSoAx> oh ok cool, thnks guys :)
<sebner> james_w: so, interested to comment?
<nxvl> james_w: well, is there any? :P
<james_w> sebner: I don't think I've sponsored enough yet, sorry.
<james_w> nxvl: Debian is frozen too, so I would hope so.
<nxvl> james_w: but lenny is freezed
<sebner> james_w: I told about future work. so if I'll fix more stuff and you can review it and THEN you maybe want to comment?
<nxvl> i'm still uploading to sid
<sebner> nxvl: I don't mind about experimental too :P
<james_w> sebner: sure, I'll comment if I sponsor enough.
<geser> Hi *
<sebner> james_w: cool, thx ;)
<sebner> huhu geser :D
<geser> Hi sebner
<nxvl> sebner: experimental scares me
<sebner> nxvl: I would install more software if it wouldn't be so stupid to install that stuff
<geser> sebner: do I see it correct that you've found a new sponsor? :)
<sebner> geser: sure. :) So he can comment on my application
<sebner> james_w: geser is my sync ACK robot/hero :D
<james_w> heh :-)
<slytherin> superm1: any idea what this error is - http://paste.ubuntu.com/54707/
<superm1> slytherin, yeah it's from the script that doesnt come in the package
<superm1> MAKEDEB
<superm1> MAKEDEV
<superm1> that is
<superm1> it sits in /dev and does that
<slytherin> hmm
<slytherin> so nothing serious right?
<superm1> slytherin, i dont think it's serious, but it's nothing new either
<slytherin> ok
<james_w> sebner: would you like me to sponsor the wordpress merge?
<slytherin> geser: have some time to look at universe part of bug #260765
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260765 in gst-plugins-bad0.10 "DVD playback does not work anymore" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260765
<slytherin> ?
<geser> slytherin: I can try to look at but I can't promise
<geser> slytherin: have you tried to contact slomo?
<slytherin> geser: No. As far as I know he is on holiday (or was till yesterday).
<sebner> james_w: I'm wondering that you ask O_o
<james_w> sebner: I thought maybe you were providing the alternate patch, but you didn't, so I assume that you want the merge sponsoring
<sebner> james_w: alternate patch?
<sebner> james_w: you mean cherrypick the fix?
<james_w> sebner: yeah
<sebner> james_w: well, I though doing it my way is a lot faster, easier and cleaner (smaller debdiff)
<sebner> *thought
<sebner> james_w: so if you are fine with it, yes, please sponsor
<james_w> but it's harder and slower for me :-)
<sebner> james_w: everythink (also being MOTU) has a good and a bad side :P
<sebner> *thing
<sebner> argh
<james_w> it's more work for me to review the changes, as the debdiff you provide is just generally showing changes we already have, rather than the new stuff, it requires a little more work to get the package to use as the base of the update, and it requires an extra argument to debuild
<james_w> sebner: true :-)
<james_w> it's not a criticism of you, it's true for all merges
<james_w> it's something I'm going to fix though
<sebner> james_w: kk, I can do it the other way too, it's really no problem if you insist
 * sebner just wants to make james_w happy :)
<directhex> nyerk, one of the boycottnovell types has jumped onto my moonlight ITP
<directhex> this is gonna get messy pretty quickly
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can somebody check bug #271630, just to see if I miss some basic data for a FFE?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271630 in kwave "[sync Request] Kwave FTBFS in Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271630
<fabrice_sp> (james_w, for example ;-))
<directhex> he _IS_ a sexy beast
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: can you not simply patch current source to fix FTBFS?
<fabrice_sp> slytherin: the problem is that FTBFS is because of KDE 4
<james_w> fabrice_sp: yeah, having a bug in the current version isn't a reason to not require a FFe
<james_w> fabrice_sp: but if the new upstream version is the only way to fix the problem it can be a good reason to grant one
<fabrice_sp> slytherin: so I had to get new upstream version.
<james_w> fabrice_sp: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess says you are missing a build log and an install log
<directhex> and a donut!
<james_w> fabrice_sp: the former could be a pointer to the log from the build in your PPA
<james_w> oh yes, the donut, don't forget that
<james_w> well, two, you need two motu-release ACKs for a FFe
<fabrice_sp> A virtual donut?
<fabrice_sp> oh: 2 virtual donuts then :-)
<directhex> mmmmm krispy kreme!
<fabrice_sp> james_w and directhex: Bug updated. For the donut, you can get it at http://www.krispykreme.com/images/pumpkinspice08_pop.jpg
<james_w> mmm, thanks
<directhex> ew, pumpkin donut? srsly? yanks are crazy!
<james_w> unfortunately you bribed the wrong person, I'm not a member of motu-release
<fabrice_sp> Arghh: this will be 3 donuts, then!
<fabrice_sp> (and yes: pumpkin donuts :-) )
<webtech_m33> hello.. i am looking for a how to, to rebuild a .deb package
<webtech_m33>  i dpkg-buildpackage and created a new .deb file
<webtech_m33> it installs fine
<webtech_m33> but when i do an apt-get upgrade... the system wants to reinstall the ubuntu package
<webtech_m33> i am trying to get postfix with quote support
<james_w> webtech_m33: you need to increment the version number
<james_w> webtech_m33: or rather add a suffix
<webtech_m33> the changelog?
<ivoks> yes
<james_w> add +webtech_m33 or similar on the end of the version number
<webtech_m33> i added a q at the end
<webtech_m33> and it still wants to override it
<webtech_m33> postfix (2.5.1-2ubuntu1q) hardy; urgency=low
<james_w> webtech_m33: have you rebuilt and installed the resulting .deb?
<webtech_m33> yeah
 * sebner still dunno if james_w insists ^^
<slytherin> webtech_m33: use dpkg --compare-version to actually see if your version is greater than ubuntu version
<sebner> huhu DktrKranz
<james_w> you installed the correct .deb? not the same one as last time from your shell history?
<fabrice_sp> webtech_m33: actual hardy version is 2.5.1-2ubuntu1.2
<DktrKranz> guten abend sebner
<james_w> sebner: no, I'll sponsor it, I'm just on something else at the moment
<sebner> james_w: ah kk, but I keep that in mind for future merges :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: thumbs up :D
<sebner> DktrKranz: now james_w sponsors my stuff so he can comment on my application ;)
 * cody-somerville pings motu-sru.
<DktrKranz> sebner, so... no more sponsoring for me? \o/   \o/   \o/
<webtech_m33> i think i have old source
<webtech_m33> that;s why when i added a q to the end of the changelog
<webtech_m33> it wants to over ride it
<webtech_m33> cd ..
<webtech_m33> poof... works now
<sebner> DktrKranz: you haven't sponsored for months :P
<Ayabara> devfil, any idea when the digikam-kde4 beta4 package will be in? I'm considering compiling from source if it's not in the near future
<DktrKranz> sebner, you should have applied for months :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: /me just didn't want to be rejected ;)
<DktrKranz> sebner, Y.R.B.
<sebner> DktrKranz: S! I. K. Y.
<RainCT> o_O
<sebner> RainCT:   ^ ^
<DktrKranz> RainCT, search "achmed" on youtube (tm)
<RainCT> AH!
<RainCT> but what's Y.R.B.?
<directhex> BLEH. i need to make my ITP reply sound good, but this guy seems to have been adding soundbites as to why it's unpackagable for hours
<sebner> RainCT: watch the video ;)
<RainCT> sebner: I've seen it like 5 times :)
<sebner> RainCT: then you FAILED
<sebner> :P
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> uhm.. I think I even have it on the hard disk xD  but I'm busy right now, breaking REVU :P
<DktrKranz> RainCT, hint: You Rac### Bas####"
<sebner> RainCT: \o/
<sebner> DktrKranz: mind !ohmygod :P
<DktrKranz> sebner, I know ;)
<sebner> ^^
 * RainCT blames siretart for having 3 revu directories on spooky :P
<sebner> RainCT: what improvements can we expect? :)
<RainCT> sebner: do you like emails?
<DktrKranz> RainCT, -ETOOMANYEMAILS, but we like build logs :)
<sebner> RainCT: depending on the content :P
<RainCT> sebner: comments ^^
<sebner> RainCT: hmm, ok mail notification isn't a bad idea :D
<RainCT> man I've just done at least 6 or 7 successive uncommit-commit-push-pull sequences XD
<RainCT> to fix stupid mistakes that is.. my brain seems to be frozen -.- xDD
<sebner> RainCT: hrhr
<siretart> RainCT: uh?
<sebner> RainCT: btw, any news to mom, dad?
<sebner> MoM, DaD :P
<RainCT> sebner: ask Canonical :)
<RainCT> they are *slow*
<sebner> RainCT: you are my connection to them :P
 * Adri2000 asked Keybuk something like 2 days ago, no answer
<sebner> Adri2000: ah, k
<james_w> Adri2000: he's travelling
<Adri2000> ok, that might explain it then
<RoAkSoAx> heya guys, does anyone knows when are the sponsored ppl for UDS are going to be announced?
<cody-somerville> I think sometime today
<stefanlsd> does anyone have an idea why bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-dev/mplayer/ubuntu  just seems to hang...?
<stefanlsd> maybe its a LP thing with big repo's?
<slytherin> stefanlsd: may be it is bzr thing with bug repos. :-)
<slytherin> s/bug/big
<james_w> slytherin: your probably hitting the bug where it doesn't take in to account something it does at the start when calculating progress, when that thing can take quite some time on large remote repositories
<james_w> err, stefanlsd sorry
<stefanlsd> james_w: yeah. its been about 20 minutes tho and du -h says 28K
<lukehasnoname> calc: ping
<sharms> on intrepid beta, anyone know why 'cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log' and 'less /var/log/Xorg.0.log' would show the whole log, while 'more /var/log/Xorg.0.log' only shows the top of it
<sharms> is that just a bug I should file or is that a known issue
<cody-somerville> more should page it
<sharms> more only returns slightly more than head
<sharms> guess I will just send a bug
<RainCT> yeha, e-mail notifications are up and running
<calc> gar
<calc> he left right before i saw his ping
<RainCT> (only for comments, and you've to subscription to each package individually though. notifications for new uploads and a "receive notifications about all my packages" will come soon)
<ajmitch> hi
<lukehasnoname> calc
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch
<calc> i look away he asks for me then quits again
<calc> this dude is annoying :\
<calc> if he wants something he needs to ask it and not quit within 7m :\
 * calc is trying to update OOo to rc4
<sebner> calc: \o/, so final release again pushed back?
<calc> sebner: its set for Oct 13 i think
<sebner> calc: I see, thx :)
<calc> yea unless something comes up by this friday
<calc> but its way too late to make it into intrepid at this point
<calc> it might go into backports or something a later date but i don't know yet, still discussing it with colin
<sebner> calc: I know, you told me some days ago ^^
<calc> sebner: ok
<calc> is there somewhere i can download a package that is accepted but not in the general mirror system for Debian?
<calc> but not yet in there i mean
<calc> or do i just have to wait a while?
<geser> calc: did it leave already incoming.d.o?
<calc> geser: yea
<calc> how long after that does it show up on mirrors?
<sebner> calc: some hours
<geser> sorry, I don't know, but I guess the push-mirrors should have it at first
<calc> geser: is there a list of the push mirror somewhere?
<calc> ah i found it :)
<calc> google seach of debian.org :)
<james_w> anyone from motu-release around?
<ScottK> Yes, but I already told you yes.
<james_w> when?
<ScottK> Mon Oct Â 6 12:33:29 2008 -0400
<james_w> about launchpadlib?
<james_w> this is a non-FFe question
<ScottK> Ah.  Sorry.
<ScottK> What's the question then?
<james_w> I'm looking at bug 242572, and I was interested in your thoughts on whether it should be uploaded
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<james_w> it looks bugfix-only to me, though upstream tries to obfuscate that with terse changelog entries, and regenerating lots of auto-generated files.
 * ScottK looks
<james_w> so it's not an FFe approval question, but a question of whether it would be good for the release
<james_w> it has no rdepends
<james_w> the reporter makes it sound worthwhile, but I have reservations just from the nature of the thing, so I'm reluctant to just upload it
<ScottK> I can understand.
<ScottK> Do you know what the 'important bug' is that is fixed?
<james_w> no, I don't actually, good point
<james_w> fabrice_sp: hey, I know you're in here now, could you help us decide what to do with wxsvg?
<james_w> the two changes explicitly named in the changelog are
<james_w> * fixed frame accurate displaying of image from video file
<james_w> * extended media decoder to get stream information#
<james_w> not really sure what they mean
<ScottK> The other question is, why do we care to fix it.  It's lib with no rdepends.  Is it actually useful for anything?
<james_w> ScottK: yeah, I was also thinking that. I'd even question why we have it in the archives at all. It's from debian-multimedia, so I guess it was explicitly requested
<wgrant> We did import a lot of stuff semi-automatically early on.
<james_w> ah, ok
<ScottK> From even odder places.
<ScottK> Maybe siretart knows.
<ScottK> He's involved in debian-multimedai.
<james_w> the date of the original update is also a bit of a concern to me
<james_w> ok, fabrice_sp doesn't seem to be around, I'll quiz him tomorrow, thanks ScottK
<ScottK> No problem.
<DktrKranz> are you aware of some tricks to fetch $distro-changes mbox archives from lists.ubuntu.com using {wget,curl}? I receive "403 forbidden" error
<nhandler_> DktrKranz: You need to set the referer to lists.ubuntu.com
<nhandler_> This is due to the new robots.txt file
<DktrKranz> ah... weird
<DktrKranz> but works, thanks nhandler_
<nhandler_> No problem DktrKranz. I found that out while I was helping emgent get his UTU script working again.
<DktrKranz> heh, underlying code was written by me, and now I use a variant to fetch weekly packages for our newsletter
<DktrKranz> but I had to download it by hand :/
<nhandler_> DktrKranz: The only issue is, now that we attach the old format of the message, you can't just search for Changed-By: _____. If you do, your count will be twice as high as it actually is.
<DktrKranz> really?
<DktrKranz> wasn't .changes file treated as an attachment? (and thus ignored?)
<nhandler_> DktrKranz: They now have it as an attachment and in the message body. The .mbox file displays both of these. I have been trying to contact emgent to help him fix the utu script again.
<nhandler_> For my version of the script, I have it searching for a Changed-By line following a Maintainer line. This follows the old format, which ensures that it catches all of the changes.
<DktrKranz> sounds reasonable
<james_w> ugh, debian/cdbs/1/...
<james_w> at least the changes therein are docuemented
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-07
<nellery> If an application has an external homepage, as well as a sourceforge one, which should go in the Homepage field in debian/control?
<bddebian> The homepage goes in the homepage.  Use the sourceforge page for your watch file :)
<azeem> nellery: do you mean the sourceforge project page, or some foo.sourceforge.net homepage?
<nellery> azeem, the http://projectname.sourceforge.net one
<nellery> yes, foo.sourceforge.net
<azeem> nellery: in that case, whichever is more relevant or uptodate I guess
<nellery> Okay, thanks a lot both of you
<james_w> directhex: hey, when you have a minute could I trouble you for a review of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18274671/sysinfo_0.7.0ubuntu4.debdiff please? It looks sane to my inexperienced eyes.
<directhex> james_w, how much c# experience do you have?
<james_w> directhex: I know java :-)
<ajmitch> C#, java, what's the difference?
<directhex> ajmitch, TEH PATEN... no wait, too soon?
<directhex> james_w, well, to my eye, it looks completely 101% spot on. does it *work* as expected? too late in the evening for a test compile
<cody-somerville> Heya Gang
<directhex> james_w, frankly all the fixed-size arrays should be switched to arraylist. has upstream been sent the patches?
<james_w> yeah, same for me, I was just wanting to approach you for a review now in the hope you would oblige before tomorrow, so I can test and upload.
<james_w> directhex: not yet, but it's dead as far as I can see, I'll forward them once we have one ready for upload.
<ScottK> ajmitch: For me they are the same as I know them equally well.
<james_w> directhex: I'll look at the rest of the code and see if there are any more to convert, thanks.
<ajmitch> ScottK: yes, I used to maintain C# packages
<ScottK> Speaking of which ....
 * ScottK digs through ml archives ...
<directhex> directhex@mortos:~/Projects$ grep -c ajmitch pkg-cli-apps/packages/*/trunk/debian/changelog | grep -v :0
<directhex> pkg-cli-apps/packages/f-spot/trunk/debian/changelog:32
<ajmitch> directhex: and?
<directhex> just saying'. are you on i386?
<ajmitch> on my laptop, yes
<directhex> can you help me isolate possibly one of the biggest f-spot bugs on record, which might not even be an f-spot bug if this is confirmed?
 * ajmitch doesn't have access to an amd64 desktop until he gets home
<ajmitch> the randomly freezes & does stupid stuff bug?
<directhex> the "hang on exit" bug
<ajmitch> and you think I know the cause? :)
<zul> why yes you use to maintain them :)
<directhex> ajmitch, i think you should install gnupg-agent, restart your x session, and try to start/quit f-spot
<ajmitch> past tense for a reason
<ScottK> ajmitch: Do you have an opinion on this (looks like you touched the package last): https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-October/026652.html
 * ajmitch has gnupg-agent installed on the laptop
<ajmitch> ScottK:
<ajmitch> ScottK: yes, I have an opinion
<ScottK> Would you care to share it?
<ajmitch> 18:54 < ajmitch> siretart: yeah, it really should have a removal request put in
<ajmitch> should have been removed ages ago
<ScottK> Ah.  Thanks.
<directhex> ajmitch, and no f-spot quit problems?
 * ScottK really ought to do more scrollback reading.
<ajmitch> directhex: not that I've seen
<ajmitch> however I don't know if gnupg-agent is setup in the session properly
<directhex> can you compile/run http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;filename=test-signal.c;att=1;bug=499569 and give me the output?
<ajmitch> given that it doesn't ask for a passphrase on login
<ScottK> directhex: We've had gnupg-agent in default install since Gutsy (it's my fault it's there BTW) and there were some programs that had environment problems that it exposed (see fixed bugs in seahorse-agen for an example).
<ScottK> agen/agent
<ajmitch> directhex: I presume you don't mean the various compile warnings from that test-signal.c :)
<directhex> ajmitch, no, the output from running it
<directhex> sod it, i'll experiment further tomorrow & weds. bedtime.
<ScottK-laptop> directhex: FYI, my point is it's probably not a gnupg-agent bug, it's probably the app.  Good luck.
<quentusrex> Hello. I need some help remembering the process to build a custom *.deb file.
<quentusrex> I remember it has something to do with dh-make
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, it breaks the SigBlk mask for all apps in the x session. that's an app bug?
<directhex> ScottK-laptop, oh, and only on i386
<ScottK-laptop> Hmmm
<quentusrex> does anyone have a link to a tutorial?
<directhex> dbugs 499569
<directhex> still want to confirm that it's to blame for f-spot woe, but it's unquestionably gnupg-agent's bug
<ScottK-laptop> OK.
<directhex> it adds up though - the reports come from only people who say they installed ubuntu ages ago, regardless of dist-upgrades since then ("We've had gnupg-agent in default install since Gutsy"), and is always "cured" in new user accounts on the same system
<directhex> right. sod it. bedtime. i mean it.
<quentusrex> Anyone?
<ajmitch> quentusrex: looked at the packaging guide & related stuff?
<quentusrex> yes, I knew there was a tutorial out there that gave a sample script that would build a package update. I just can't remember the keywords to search for it.
<ajmitch> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<quentusrex> How do I find out which package a file is from?
<ajmitch> dlocate -S, or dpkg -S
<quentusrex> Do you know of a script that will take the version from changelog and rebuild the package?
<quentusrex> I would like to have some way to auto build the changes in my package.
<quentusrex> How do I download the source of a package to my current working directory?
<ScottK-laptop> apt-get source
<cody-somerville> Any motu-sru around?
<nxvl> cody-somerville: don't think so
<fabrice_sp> james_w and scottK: still there to chat about bug 242572?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: I'm pretty sure james_w will be asleep.  He lives ~utc.
<fabrice_sp> ScottK: ok. I'll update the bug then, and we will speak of that this afternoon for me (utc+1). Thanks.
<siretart> james_w: ScottK: morning. I have to protest, I do not have anything to do with debian-multimedia (which is marillat). I'm active in pkg-multimedia, which is debian
<ScottK-laptop> siretart: Sorry.  My confusion.
<slytherin> superm1: Congratulations. :-)
<Koon> asac: posted fix for bug 275608, you might be interested in sponsoring
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275608 in network-manager-openvpn "nm-openvpn swaps ca-cert and user-cert labels when using "Passwords with Certificate (TLS)" mode" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275608
<quentusrex> How do I extract a deb package?
<quentusrex> I need to take a prebuilt *.deb package and make a change, then rebuild the package. How do I do this?
<quentusrex> I have built packages before.
<sram> .deb packages are ar.
<sram> ar vx package.deb
<sram> then you have a tarball on your hands
<quentusrex> Is there an easy way to extract the Deb package then rebuild it with dh_*
<slytherin> quentusrex: extracting .deb package will not give you source of the package
<sram> all i did was google your question :P
<quentusrex> I mean extract the source package
<quentusrex> I'm asking about the process of using a package's source package and making a change, and rebuilding it easily.
<slytherin> quentusrex: get the source package form ubuntu repositories, extract it with dpkg-source -x *.dsc, make change, ad changelog entry and then build with dpkg-buildpackage -b
<quentusrex> Also, for package naming, How do I ensure that my modifications superceed any of the original packages? such as: package_0.34.0+fixes1234-0ubuntu1 is the original package name
<quentusrex> thanks slytherin that is exactly the answer I needed. Thanks soo much.
<quentusrex> when I edit the changelog for the name,
<porthose> quentusrex: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate
<slytherin> quentusrex: you can use dpkg --compare-version to compare two versions. Check manpage for dpkg
<slytherin> Does anyone know why gnash 0.8.3 has not been packaged for intrepid?
<tbielawa> no, but that's really surprising to hear!
<quentusrex> If the original package is called: package_0.34.0+fixes1234-0ubuntu1 and I name my customized version package_0.34.0+fixes1234-0ubuntu1-mine Which one will be installed from the apt repo?
<quentusrex> Should I instead name mine package_0.34.0+mine+fixes1234-0ubuntu1 ?
<slytherin> quentusrex: I told you use dpkg to compare versions.
<slytherin> ï»¿asac: Do you have any plans to update gnash?
<quentusrex> slytherin, It showed the difference between the versions, but it didn't tell me which would have preference.
<slytherin> quentusrex: what command did you use?
<Hobbsee> siretart: are you planning to fix any of xine-ui's bugs before release?
<quentusrex> dpkg --compare-version  package_0.34.0+fixes1234-0ubuntu1 lt  package_0.34.0+fixes1234-0ubuntu1-mine
<siretart> Hobbsee: tbh, I don't have concrete plans. xine-ui is pretty much dead, IMO. use gxine instead
<Hobbsee> siretart: er, is that what starts when running 'xine' from command line?
<siretart> exactly
<quentusrex> slytherin, it doesn't return anything.
<siretart> if you have plans to update it to latest cvs (yes, CVS!!), feel free!
<Hobbsee> siretart: right, so i meant that.  same question, but for gxine :)
<slytherin> quentusrex: yes, that is what I am also observing. Weird
<Hobbsee> siretart: ooh, now there's an idea.  It's recently started freezing on me - movie keeps playing, but hte keyboard won't work.  Any idea why?
<siretart> Hobbsee: I think we should really sync/merge the package from debian, the changes are rather small, but I didn't get to file an exception request for this yet
<slytherin> quentusrex: It is supposed to return nothing if your operator evaluates to true. But I tried changing operator and it never returns anything.
<quentusrex> that's what I found too
<siretart> OTOH, it does not seem to introduce new features. not sure if that means that it doesn't require an FF exception
<Hobbsee> siretart: OK, i'll try to have a look.
<Hobbsee> siretart: you can approve it :P
<siretart> Hobbsee: I can?
<Hobbsee> siretart: oh, darn.  i keep thinking you're on MOTU release.
<siretart> I was at some point, right ;)
<Hobbsee> siretart: i'm sure ScottK-laptop or someone will approve it, if the changes are sane.
<siretart> I havent' looked at the changes in detail, but the changes to the source are pretty small.
<Hobbsee> right
<siretart> Hobbsee: you hang around in #ubuntu, right?
<Hobbsee> siretart: i try not to, but occasionally.  WHy?
<siretart> Hobbsee: can you teach the relevant bots (and users) the knowledge that 'apt-get install libavcodce-unstripped-51' is a very good incantation if they want create dvds, vcds or generally encode to mpeg?
<siretart> apt-get install libavcodec-unstripped-51 that is. (sorry, mispelled)
<quentusrex> slytherin, do you know which one should be considered the later version?
<siretart> it seems the package is still in binary NEW, but it is already built
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<directhex> slytherin, compare-versions uses exit codes
<siretart> and currently available from the ~motumedia PPA
<directhex> oh damn he left
<directhex> quentusrex, same applies
<directhex> quentusrex, here's how to do it. if your package is pure customization, and you want your version to be installed for preference, then you should attach a + then some personal numbered identifier to it
<directhex> quentusrex, so if you want to modify 1.0-1, you make 1.0-1+qr1
<quentusrex> oh, ok. awesome. thanks directhex
<NCommander> directhex, thats -1~qr1
<NCommander> +qr1 won't do the right thing
<directhex> NCommander, if he wants to supercede, he should use + not ~
<directhex> ~ is for backporting, so your version is newer than the one in your release but *older* than the one it's based
<persia> -1~1 < -1 < -1+1
<directhex> well. backporting, svn/rc's, and so on
<directhex> blah blah blah, we all know this one
<quentusrex> Also, I'm having problem downloading the source package and extracting them. dpkg-source -x *.dsc gives a GPG error
<persia> directhex, No, it's so it's *less* than the unbackported version, not newer than the previous version.  "~" can never express greater than.
<persia> quentusrex, That's just a warning : you can import the key of the last person to change the package, or ignore it.
<directhex> persia, not on its own, but in the case of backporting it's pretty much a good bet you're not backporting 1.0-1 to replace 1.0-1
<persia> directhex, That's just a coincidence :)
<directhex> right, i need to go drive 200 miles. bbl.
<quentusrex> thanks again directhex
<quentusrex> and thanks persia and NCommander
<quentusrex> I'm always trying to learn new stuff
<quentusrex> How can multiple binary packages share the same source?
<quentusrex> same source package?
<persia> quentusrex, Multiple stanzas in debian/control
<persia> quentusrex, debian/control should have one for the source package, and than one or more for the binary packages.
<quentusrex> So, when building one of the binary packages, do I have to build all the the packages?
<persia> Technically, no, but it's non-trivial to only build one binary package from a source with multiple binary packages, and it's certainly not a typical use case.
<quentusrex> ok, so I might as well just rebuild the whole source package with my changes.
<quentusrex> That's fine with me.
<quentusrex> How do I ensure that they all get my +mine for each of the packages?
<quentusrex> or does it matter?
<persia> Recommended practice is to build a new source package with your changes, and then use that source package to build a binary package with pbuilder or sbuild.
<persia> You can't ensure it, so try to make it not matter.
<quentusrex> How so?
<persia> The only way to enforce a given set of packages will all be installed together is to have very specific package dependencies.  Having such strict dependencies usually breaks upgrades to the point where it's hard to get that set of packages installed.
<persia> As a result, it's best to try to get each package to work on it's own, although bumping some dependencies may make sense.
<persia> Also note that someone could always create a package with a version of "iwinnow" which is larger than just about everything sane, and so supercede anything you create.
<quentusrex> I'm using this package for my private network
<quentusrex>  is not a valid .dsc file name
<toobaz1> Please forgive my cross-posting from #ubuntu+1, but...
<toobaz1> Package drgeo is completely inusable in intrepid because of bug LP 257797. However, I just noticed it is probably not a drgeo source package's bug: the source used in Hardy and Debian unstable has only trivial differences, and recompiling package from debian's one still gives a buggy drgeo, while Hardy's and debian's binaries works perfect. So it's 1) a problem of something used in compiling drgeo (gcc?) or 2) a drge
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 257797 in drgeo "segment fault" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257797
<quentusrex> I have this problem with pbuilder:
<quentusrex> The following packages are BROKEN:
<quentusrex>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
<Laney> quentusrex: Look at the rest of the output?
<Laney> -?
<quentusrex> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<quentusrex>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libdts-dev which is a virtual package.
<quentusrex> plus a bunch of other unmet depends
<Laney> Do you have universe enabled in the chroot?
<quentusrex> I'll check
<quentusrex> yes, universe, and multiverse, and medibuntu
 * Hobbsee wonders why you have medibuntu enabled.
<toobaz1> Is there someone else/some other channel to whom my answer would be better directed?
<Hobbsee> toobaz1: no, here is right
 * Hobbsee heads off to deliver birthday presents.
<Hobbsee> toobaz1: it's a little early yet for europe and the US
<toobaz1> ok
<persia> toobaz1, Also, it may just be that nobody knows precisely.  The build logs are linked from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/drgeo/1.1.0-1ubuntu2 : perhaps they could help you track it down?
<IntuitiveNipple> toobaz1: I've just tested and replied to the bug report
<IntuitiveNipple> I can't reproduce the failure
<toobaz3> I know
<toobaz3> it is an intrepid bug
<toobaz3> but
<IntuitiveNipple> toobaz1: Can you catch the messages/backtrace?
<toobaz3> if you recompile hardy package under intrepid it is still there
<toobaz3> you mean gdb?
<IntuitiveNipple> Yes, and the -dbgsym
<toobaz3> forgive my ignorance, but "gdb: unrecognized option '-dbgsym'"
<IntuitiveNipple> I can't test in Intrepid currently, since the CD installer fails in the kvm guest.
<toobaz3> ok
<toobaz3> wia
<toobaz3> wait
<toobaz3> don't bother, maybe I'm understanding
<quentusrex> I've still got a problem with pbuilder
<quentusrex> Conflicts: libmyth-0.20-dev, libmyth-dev
<toobaz3> once I create the debug package, how should I tell to gdb to use it? I still get lots of "(no debugging symbols found"). Anyway, the end is reported in http://paste.ubuntu.com/54918/
<persia> toobaz1, Did you install the debug package?
<toobaz3> yes
<persia> OK.  Try calling "bt" in gdb, to see what it returns.  You may also need the symbols from some of the libraries on with drgeo depends.
<toobaz3> (no debugging symbols found)
<toobaz3> (gdb) bt
<toobaz3> No stack.
<toobaz3> bt _after_ running gives http://paste.ubuntu.com/54920/
<quentusrex> Anyone know why pbuilder fails? it complains about virtual packages.
<slytherin> persia: does obex browsing with nautilus work for you ï»¿currently?
<slytherin> quentusrex: do you have all components enabled in pbuilderrc? By default only main is enabled.
<persia> slytherin, During my last test, the answer was: "Only the first time".
<slytherin> persia: Ok. So the first time you didn't see 'protocol not supported error right?
<james_w> fabrice_sp: hi, I'm up now when you want to chat
<quentusrex> slytherin, I don't see components in that file.
<slytherin> persia: By the way, now that FFE is granted for 4.x stack. Who is going to do upload?
<slytherin> quentusrex: which file did you check?
<quentusrex> slytherin, now I do. I uncommented the section
<quentusrex> now I'm trying again
<persia> slytherin, Not sure : superm1 probably.
<slytherin> quentusrex: you will have to do pbuilder --update --override-config first
<slytherin> persia: but he is not yet core dev right?
<persia> He gets reviewed by the TB in 5.5 hours.
<slytherin> ph, his application will be considered today
<persia> If not, we'll get someone else.
<morgs> james_w: Thanks for your comment on the sugar ticket. What is the way forward? sync the debian package and then patch it? Submit a debdiff against the hardy package?
<james_w> morgs: the latter is fine.
<morgs> james_w: OK, I'll do that.
<james_w> morgs: Luke emailed me off-bug to discuss it, and I just proposed the same thing to him.
<morgs> OK
<toobaz3> shall come back later
<james_w> morgs: I can build the package and dput it as soon as I see the sync requests go in, so there will be little skew in the archive.
<morgs> james_w: great.
<toobaz3> I forgot: please email me if any testing is needed: toobaz@email.it
<james_w> morgs: thanks for replying to my comments. I'm just doing a pass and pointing out things. Nothing has really been a blocker so far, except perhaps that, but as you want the whole suite in at once I want to complete a pass before acting on anything.
<sebner> james_w: thx for uploading wordpress. mind sponsoring another merge? ^^ .
<james_w> sebner: is it in the queue?
<sebner> james_w: yep
<james_w> I'll look at it then.
<morgs> james_w: OK, and the debhelper issue? Debian are unlikely to fix this in the timeframe we want it as there's just one guy really working on it...
<james_w> I'm in the middle of sugar at the moment though.
<sebner> james_w: *fine* but it's there since 5 days ;-)
<james_w> morgs: it won't be a problem in Intrepid. the backporters will poke you if you request a backport to something that has debhelper 5
<james_w> morgs: I think it indicates something wrong with his weird cdbs setup
<morgs> james_w: he experiments with cdbs, using the sugar packages... :(
<gaspa> dholbach_: hi, I updated my branch of harvest-data. you could merge in to the main branch if you want.
<james_w> morgs: is Jani going to look at these packages?
<dholbach_> gaspa: taking a look at it this instant
<gaspa> cool
<gaspa> :)
<morgs> james_w: he said he's OK with the deb sync, but won't look at the packages specifically. He said he would look at and sponsor debdiffs to fix anything in them...
<dholbach_> gaspa: merged - gracias
<james_w> morgs: ok
<gaspa> dholbach_: awesome. :)
<dholbach> gaspa: thanks for your great work on it!
<gaspa> dholbach: well.. .i'd like to work more on it.. :P but i'm in lack of time, recently...
<dholbach> I know what you mean
<elmargol> I reported a bug some days ago and noone has confirmed/responded to my bug so far. The bug is kernel/nvidia/composite related. Any Ideas how I can get in contact? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-177/+bug/278029
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278029 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-177 "Xserver crashes, scrambled terminals random lines and patterns" [Undecided,New]
<quentusrex> where does pbuilder put the deb package?
<slytherin> quentusrex: /var/cache/pbuilder/result
<slytherin> quentusrex: you can copy /etc/pbuilderrc ro ~/.pbuilderrc and customize it. You can change the result folder, the cache folder etc.
<quentusrex> if I have a single source package that produces multiple binary packages, do I need to copy them all to my apt repo? or just the one that ends in all
<slytherin> quentusrex: it depends on what the packages are
<slytherin> quentusrex: in any case you won't be able to install the packages you build by putting them into apt cache. Because apt's package list does not have entries for these packages. You should instead use dpkg --install filename .deb
<quentusrex> right, I have an apt repo of my own
<quentusrex> Is there a command to download the source packages to the current working directory?
<quentusrex> I know the dpkg-source -x *.dsc extracts the source.
<persia> quentusrex, `apt-get source $(package)` usually does approximately the right thing.
<slytherin> quentusrex: dget http:///path/to.dsc
<Riddell> siretart: ping
<Riddell> libpostproc-unstripped-51 and libswscale-unstripped-0 are empty
<siretart> Riddell: I'm aware of that, thanks for notifying. I'm on it
<Riddell> siretart: I'll reject the binaries for now then
<siretart> :(
<siretart> I'd say leave them in.
<siretart> important is only libavcodec-unstripped-51, and that one should work, no?
<siretart> Riddell: fixed package uploaded
<lfaraone> Is a debdiff required for changes to a control file?
<morgs> james_w: ^ this is about the sugar package, adding the sugar-activities metapackage
<ScottK> It's preferred.  A diff of the file would also work, but then it's more effort for the sponsor so you'll likely have to wait longer.
<stefanlsd> lfaraone: u need to get the source. make the change to the control file.  debuild the package.  actually test the build of the package (does it work after your change to the control file), and then u can just debdiff the old .dsc and the new one...
<stefanlsd> mm. also then u can do the changelog entry.
<james_w> yeah, what Scott said.
<james_w> except it's not about waiting, but just making more work for me
<james_w> I'm just looking at *-activity now
<james_w> morgs: thanks for forwarding my comments to Jonas. Did you see that I corrected myself on the ${shlibs:Depends} thing?
<morgs> james_w: yeah, I saw. He's on the ubuntu-sugarteam list, which is the email address for the sugarteam so he saw the bugmail, and replied, but that didn't go into the bug
<james_w> ah, thanks.
<slytherin> LucidFox: ping
<LucidFox> slytherin> Yes?
<slytherin> LucidFox: I have been watching the batik/fop related mails in Debian Java ML. Theer are few changes I believe we can adopt to Ubuntu packages. Analysis is needed.
<slytherin> LucidFox: 1.7 has landed in experimental. And now that fop is built in Ubuntu I think we need not add fop source inside batik orig.tar.gz. Also if the startup scripts could switch to java-wrappers that will be great.
<LucidFox> if batik depended on fop, this would mean a circular dependency :(
<slytherin> LucidFox: I don't think it will need to depend on fop. The fop classes will only be needed for PDF transcoding. Otherwise I don't see any use of them for a batik based application.
<LucidFox> Perhaps this could wait until Jaunty?
<slytherin> LucidFox: no issues. Then I don't think java-wrappers change is worth a new upload.
<RainCT> Uhm.. A few days ago someone included a link to a website which allows to browse Ubuntu's repositories and install stuff from there with apturl in some ML mail, can someone tell me what page that was? (there's a brainstorm idea which asks for the same)
<slytherin> RainCT: I use packages.ubuntu.com for browing but not sure if it has apturl support
<slytherin> s/browing/browsing
<persia> Install support is just a matter of an appropriately constructed URL to pass to apturl
<RainCT> slytherin: it hasn't, and what I mean is a new more "modern" page (which seems to be a private initiative, unrelated to Ubuntu/Canonical)
<RainCT> some Canonical employee (iirc) said on a mail that he had looked at it
<slytherin> ok
<persia> RainCT, Maybe irclogs.ubuntu.com has the answer?
<RainCT> apachelogger, superm1: congratz!
<apachelogger> RainCT: thanks :)
<superm1> thanks RainCT :)
<emgent> apachelogger, superm1 congrats, hard work now :)
 * StevenK wonders what he missed
<huats> apachelogger: congrats !!
<RainCT> StevenK: Techboard has just approved them as Core Devs :)
<apachelogger> emgent: who said we stopped work? :P
<StevenK> Oooh!
<lfaraone> Hey, how do I make a transitional package?
<StevenK> superm1: I saw you got the go-ahead for bluetooth. When do you want me to upload my rebuilds?
<superm1> StevenK, after the main packages clear NEW
<superm1> StevenK, which i'll upload them this afternoon
<RainCT> lfaraone: just create an empty package depending on the new one
<RainCT> lfaraone: ie, the transitional package is just an entry in debian/control
<lfaraone> RainCT: of the source package... I see.
<slytherin> superm1: congrats. :-)
<ScottK> superm1: Congrats.
<emgent> apachelogger: hahah
<StevenK> superm1: Congratulations, too
<superm1> thanks slytherin ScottK StevenK emgent
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<iulian> Hi
<RainCT> guys, please vote on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=940783
<iulian> Hmm, that's weird. When I try to remove human-theme it asks me to remove ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-artwork too. It's the same thing when I install gtk2-engines-ubuntu-looks.
<iulian> ubuntulooks (source package) I see Replaces: ubuntu-artwork but why it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop?
<james_w> porthose: hi, are you around? I'd like to talk ampache, I think we're close, so IRC might help us get it done quickly.
<kees> geser: so far the -6 kernel has been stable for me (I merged upstream AppArmor changes)
<slytherin> does anyone know why the BBC plugin says copyright Canonical Ltd. I was under impression it was developed by Collabora.
<fabrice_sp> apachelogger: are you there?
<slytherin> ans how can I actually use it?
<apachelogger> fabrice_sp: hi
<fabrice_sp> (congratz first of all :-) )
<apachelogger> thanks :)
<fabrice_sp> about Bug #271630
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271630 in kwave "[sync Request] Kwave FTBFS in Intrepid" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271630
<fabrice_sp> It seams that in the filterdiff you attach, the patch seems already applied
<fabrice_sp> Should I begin from scratch from a 0.7.10 package and apply it?
<fabrice_sp> (and agree about the documentation: I was too exciting about the package working that I forget to check it before)
<apachelogger> fabrice_sp: the filterdiff is just a diff of the debian parts from the 7.10 to your packaging
<apachelogger> so just enhance the changelog and rename patch as stated
<apachelogger> then we are good for upload
<fabrice_sp> apachelogger: great. I'll do that now. Thanks!
<RainCT> Is there some wiki page which explains how to request new versions of a package? I'm googling but can't find any :/
<geser> kees: will try out, I'm currently trying -5
<slytherin> RainCT: why are you googling for a page on wiki? Search in wiki. :-)
<geser> waiting till it appears on the mirrors
<Pici> RainCT: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Requesting%20a%20new%20package%20for%20Ubuntu perhaps?
<slytherin> superm1: when are you planning to upload bluez packages? Need any help in preparing the packages?
<RainCT> slytherin: google is better :P
<kees> geser: any problems with -5?  I was running -5 with my AA patches -- it's possible it was just an upstream kernel regression that finally got fixed.  :P
<superm1> slytherin, I am making sure upstream is accepting of a patch and then i'll upload the main bluez and bluez-gnome
<RainCT> or perhaps not.. thanks Pici :)
<superm1> slytherin, is that sendto patch in order?
<superm1> nautilus-sendto
<RainCT> ah no, but that's for new packages, I need it for updates
<superm1> slytherin, and any update on the tooltip stuff?
<geser> kees: not yet
<slytherin> superm1: I didn't check. Let me take a look.
<slytherin> superm1: is nautilus-sendto package not in PPA?
<slytherin> superm1: by the way, in case you haven't noticed already 4.12 is out. :-)
<superm1> slytherin, yeah it's supposed to help with SCO stuff, but i'm trying it first
<fabrice_sp> james_w: did you my answer to Bug #242572?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<james_w> fabrice_sp: yeah, I did thanks
<james_w> fabrice_sp: I wanted to ask you something, one moment
<fabrice_sp> ok
<james_w> fabrice_sp: ah, that was it, you appear to have added the information for a FFe request, is that want you intended?
<fabrice_sp> james_w: yes, because as this library as new methods in b11, I assume that it can be considered as  new features, so FFe
<fabrice_sp> (even is no app rdepends on it)
<james_w> fabrice_sp: I agree, I was just checking
<james_w> you didn't subscribe motu-release
 * fabrice_sp checking
<fabrice_sp> james_w: actually, I only suscribed Ubuntu Sponsor for universe (/me having no rights)
<james_w> you are free and encouraged to subscribe motu-release
<james_w> they deal with it before the sponsors
<james_w> it would be good if you could explain in the bug report what the new feature actually is as well :-)
<sebner> james_w: now are 2 bugs for you in the queue :-)
<RainCT> (Has someone just uploaded a package to REVU?)
<james_w> sebner: there are more than 40 bugs in the queue :-)
<sebner> james_w: in your queue?
<sebner> aloha DktrKranz :D
<james_w> ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<sebner> james_w: you don't have to do all of them :P
<DktrKranz> huhu sebner
<fabrice_sp> james_w: will suscribe motu-release, then. (Really thought that everything should go first to sponsors). Thanks.
<fabrice_sp> apachelogger: new diff uploaded for Bug #271630. Should be ok now :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271630 in kwave "[sync Request] Kwave FTBFS in Intrepid" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271630
<fabrice_sp> Any motu-release to have a look at bug #242572? Pleeaaaaassssseeeeee
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<apachelogger> fabrice_sp: looking good now
<apachelogger> fabrice_sp: btw, usually changing the patch system is considerd bad practise
<apachelogger> but since there aren't any patches at all I can live with it ;-)
<fabrice_sp> apachelogger: that's what I thought :-). (And I was expecting the blame :-) ). I also changed it because Debian 0.7.11 package is based on quilt, so I assume that next one would use quilt
<fabrice_sp> And also, since you show me the "quilt way", it's hard to go with dpatch
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<apachelogger> <3 quilt :D
<fabrice_sp> so do I :-)
<directhex> ding dong. any sexy people alive running intrepid? or, even better, a siretart?
<sebner> directhex: I only can offer the first :P
<directhex> sebner, can you install ffmpeg?
<sebner> directhex: done
<sebner> ^^
<sebner> directhex: I use it very often
<directhex> can you try intrepid ffplay on http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/WMA9/wma_0x163.wma and http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/V-codecs/WMVA/wmva-smpl-bdsm.wmv (video only for the latter)
<sebner> directhex: sure
<sebner> directhex: I'm wondering if I need something special for this wma codec installed?
<directhex> sebner, it might not play
<directhex> sebner, it doesn't on hardy
<sebner> directhex: also not on intrepid but I install ffmpeg updates first :P
<sebner> directhex: we may need w32codecs
<geser> directhex: are you also interested in a test on AMD64?
<sebner> hi geser :)
<geser> I guess that excludes AMD64
<geser> Hi sebner
<sebner> geser: w32codes can be forced to run on amd64
<directhex> geser, any arch. i just want to know if either file plays. they don't on hardy
<directhex> w32codecs is fail, it doesn't count as working IMHO
<zorglu__> q. is christof korn around ?
<jdong> directhex: err those are VC-1 wmv's
<jdong> last time I checked ffmpeg doesn't have decoders for VC-1
<sebner> directhex: but god save vlc :P
<directhex> jdong, not quite
<directhex> jdong, actually ffmpeg plays vc1, even in hardy
<jdong> directhex: ah you're right. my svn snapshot here plays it.
<directhex> jdong, WMVA is a little different to WMVC1
<jdong> [asf @ 0x1042000]asf_read_pts failed
<jdong> though your file is a bit weird towards 92% or so
<directhex> jdong, yeah, it's probably a straight dd cut from a longer video
<directhex> i.e. indexes FUBAR
<jdong> FWIW mplayer handles it well
<jdong> at 35s right now
<directhex> jdong, i need to know about ffplay in intrepid. well, ideally lenny, but wrong channel for that
<RainCT> (I guess nobody is subscribed to REVU Announcements, so: new uploads (of a source package to which you are subscribed) will also send notifications now.)
<sebner> directhex: wma = nongo, wmv = go (without sound)
<jdong> ah well my only native intrepid machine is kinda panicky right now
<directhex> jdong, ffplay is pretty much a spot on test for whether any other apps using libavcodec1 will support a file
<directhex> sebner, with ffmpeg in intrepid? thank you
<geser> directhex: wma_0x163.wma: could not open codecs
<directhex> geser, okay, that's what i expected
<sebner> directhex: with todays ffmpeg updates (new upstream version) :D
<directhex> new ffmpeg today? and siretart is hiding? tsk!
<geser> directhex: but the .wmv plays, but it looks like a bad copy of a VHS tape
<sebner> directhex: guess why :P
<directhex> geser, that's because it is
<directhex> geser, thank you, that's all the info i needed
 * siretart peeks from the other end of the channel
<geser> siretart: I guess that's not far enough :)
<sebner> lol
<directhex> siretart, mostly i wanted to thank you for recent replies to debian-devel
<directhex> siretart, and check ffmpeg stuff with you, since you're the expert. but i have the info i needed
<siretart> jdong: do you mean VC-1 as in http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=VC-1
<siretart> ?
<sebner> siretart: me wonders why debian has a newer ffmpeg version (at least with the versionsnumber)
<siretart> sebner: debian has?
<sebner> siretart: sure, our version is svnfromfebruary
<siretart> sebner: so does debian
<siretart> jdong: please check libavcodec/vc1.c
<RainCT> siretart: [revu] is there some reason why index.py calls nuke_upload() and not nuke_upload_rec()?
 * sebner is confused xD
<directhex> siretart, your ffmpeg packages support 8/9 of the official silverlight codecs. for reference. i think that's a pretty good score
<siretart> RainCT: I guess because the latter would nuke ALL uploads which I'd consider 'surprising'
<siretart> directhex: what is the last one?
<RainCT> siretart: all uploads from the same source package
<directhex> WMA 9: Windows Media Audio 9
<siretart> RainCT: yes
<directhex> actually, can people try the audio section of http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/WMA9/wmv-surroundtest_720p.wmv ?
<RainCT> siretart: so? just nuking the last upload doesn't really make sense if there's only one "nuke" link on the main page
<siretart> directhex: that's not specific enough ;) - http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=VC-1 explains the subtle differences in the wmv3 aka vc-1 family
<RainCT> directhex: hey, this is a public channel, don't say bad words :P :P
<siretart> RainCT: 'nuking' doesnt remove the files from the filesystem either
<ajmitch> hi
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<RainCT> siretart: I know.. it writes that weird script :P
<directhex> siretart, MS aren't specific enough for *me* to be specific enough ;)
<siretart> directhex: how surprising ;)
<siretart> directhex: no, seriously, there has been quite some work on that since february upstream, it might be very well possible that todays ffmpeg has advanced
<siretart> directhex: try compiling a recent svn snapshot (without shared libs) and try again.
<RainCT> siretart: so should it remain using nuke_upload (will nuke_upload_rec kill kittens) or can it be changed?
 * ajmitch loves getting bitten by strange hardy bugs again
<ajmitch> like "no desktop icons if laptop is started with audio cd in drive"
<directhex> siretart, i don't think it's that urgent - i just want to collect as much data as possible for my package wiki report. and i doubt we'll bug ftp-master with actual uploads until lenny releases, or thereabouts, anyway
<siretart> RainCT: I haven't done much (any?) revu work lately, I won't block anyone working on it
<sebner> ajmitch: wth O_o
<directhex> siretart, and tbh, given the official binary codec pack doesn't exists yet anyway, 8/9 is good enough for government work ;)
<ajmitch> sebner: yes, it's odd
<geser> Hi ajmitch
<siretart> RainCT: however let me suggest that you (or someone else) implement that missing cleanup/expiry script first
<sebner> ajmitch: but sounds absolutely SRU worth :P
<siretart> RainCT: i.e. before changing the behavior of the 'nuke' links
<ajmitch> sebner: and I spent some time trying to track it down with seb128, but that was inconclusive
<sebner> ajmitch: that's the ~MAGIC~ of OpenSource :D
<RainCT> siretart: well, I think I'll leave it like it is for now
<geser> directhex: I hear nothing (AMD64)
<siretart> directhex: package wiki report on moonlight? sorry?
<siretart> RainCT: it would at least need proper announcement
<RainCT> but first I have to discover wth apache isn't working anymore o_O
<RainCT> Because I get "(48)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to address [::]:80". There's an apache2 process running (although init.d/apache2 says there isn't :P) which may be the cause but I can't kill it :S
<directhex> siretart, yes, precisely. http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Moonlight
<directhex> geser, okay, thanks
<siretart> directhex: ah, right. the ITP thread I hijacked on debian-devel :)
<ajmitch> naughty siretart
<directhex> siretart, PLEASE keep it hijacked
<RainCT> siretart: do you know if spooky can be rebooted? (ie, is that RAID thingie or whatever it was solved now?)
<sebner> RainCT: that's the reason why I don't like Server stuff :P
<siretart> RainCT: no, it wasn't TTBOMK
<ajmitch> RainCT: what state is the apache2 process in?
<ajmitch> it ought to be killable somehow
<siretart> bah, can someone PLEASE fix the maintainer field in the 'mplayer' package?
<siretart> 'motumedia@tauware.de' is already away, I wasn't aware that it was still in use
<directhex> i think Robert Millan is one of the boycottnovell goons. he seems to be copy-pasting their stuff
<azeem> he's also one of the gnash dudes
<directhex> azeem, oh REALLY?
<directhex> azeem, REALLY REALLY REALLY?
<RainCT> ajmitch: ps says:    8233 ?        R      8:13 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
<azeem> well, debian gnash maintainer
<RainCT> ajmitch: I tried kill, kill -9 and killall but it's still there
<directhex> oh, yes, it appears so! what an interesting tidbit. tell me, who reckons flash is patented?
<azeem> IIRC, at least he was involved with it at some point
<directhex> what a bloody hypocrite
<azeem> right, gnash uploader
<siretart> holy cow
<siretart> that is an intresting crash. so many oops there...
<azeem> directhex: but flash is a "standard", you know...
<directhex> i'm resisting using swear words here, but i can't think of a bigger hypocrite right now
<siretart> RainCT: I'm pretty tired right now. since revu shouldn't be that needed atm (we are in deep freeze right now), I'll rebot spooky tomorrow, ok?
<ajmitch> RainCT: it's also chewing 100% cpu time
<ajmitch> interesting that sudo kill -9 doesn't do much
<siretart> ajmitch: check `dmesg`
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> just saw the oops
<ajmitch> well, not an oops, just a panic
<sebner> ajmitch: sudo killall -9  kills everything
<ajmitch> sebner: kill -9 *ought* to kill a process not in D or Z state :)
<ajmitch> but spooky is special
<sebner> ajmitch: ah k. /me just kills everything with kilall -9 and everything dies in agony ^^
<ajmitch> we'd rather not have that happen just yet if it won't come back up cleanly
<sebner> that's why I don't like server stuff ^^
<siretart> RainCT: ?
<directhex> siretart, can you ask darling robert where a bug should be filed to have Gnash moved to the 'patented' repository?
<siretart> directhex: there is not 'patented' repository
<directhex> siretart, i know that! nah, i'm just incensed that a guy in a glass house is throwing stones, and pretending to be on the moral high ground
<RainCT> siretart: yea, don't worry :)
<siretart> RainCT: ajmitch: MOTUs: revu is online again
<emgent> heya
<nhandler_> Hi emgent
<emgent> hey nhandler_ can we talk in query ?
<nhandler_> Yeah
<superm1> nhandler_, ping
<nhandler_> superm1: pong
<superm1> nhandler_,  you filed a separate bug 278694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278694 in nautilus-sendto "Update to version 1.1.0 " [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278694
<superm1> for an SRU on nautilus-sendto
<superm1> this was tested with the 4.x stuff?
<nhandler_> superm1: I mentioned in the bug report that I was NOT able to perform the level of testing required. I am trying to get a hold of the person who filed the report to try and get their help in testing the package (which is in my ppa)
<superm1> nhandler_, okay well i'm going to hold off uploading/etc until it's verified then
<nhandler_> No problem superm1.
<superm1> nhandler_, 4.x is on it's way into intrepid right now
<superm1> so if the hold off was being able to test on 4.x, just wait for your local mirror to update and then update your system
<nhandler_> superm1: Let me know when it gets uploaded. The original poster was concerning about it not working with 3.x (which is still in the repos).
<nhandler_> s/concerning/concerned/
<superm1> nhandler_, it's been uploaded already, it's just a matter of mirrors syncing
<superm1> so 3.x support is irrelevant at this point
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-08
<nhandler_> Ok, thanks for the heads up. I'll verify that it works properly with 4.x and add a comment to the bug
<superm1> nhandler_, okay great thanks
<nhandler_> np superm1
<Gast_304_> Bitte spendet mir was, hab grad erst neu angefangen. Brauche jeden Cent um mir ein Bier zu holen!!! http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7842526/
<Gast_304_> Bitte spendet mir was, hab grad erst neu angefangen. Brauche jeden Cent um mir ein Bier zu holen!!! http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7842526/
<Gast_304_> Bitte spendet mir was, hab grad erst neu angefangen. Brauche jeden Cent um mir ein Bier zu holen!!! http://www.pennergame.de/change_please/7842526/
<Laney> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!
<azeem> bloody pennergame
<cody-somerville> :[]
<azeem> slangasek: ^^
<Laney> ty
<slangasek> azeem: bin ich kein oper hier
<azeem> slangasek: sorry, I just looked at chanserv access #ubuntu-motu list
 * slangasek hmms
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> I wonder when that happened
<azeem> slangasek: congrats :P
<slangasek> yay, more op bits I didn't ask for ;0
<directhex> i'll swap them for ops in #ubuntu-mono
<superm1> StevenK, okay well whenever you want to upload your bits, have at it.  I've got all but alsa and evolution done on my end.  i'll do evolution after pilot-link clears
<slangasek> nhandler_: do you have an upstream changelog to go with the nautilus-sendto FFe?
<nhandler_> slangasek: I thought I posted it in the bug report
<nhandler_> slangasek: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18243795/changelog.diff
<slangasek> nhandler_: ah, thanks, guess I overlooked it
<nhandler_> slangasek: No problem. There are a lot of comments/attachments on that report
<StevenK> superm1: Uploading.
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: How would you feel about bluez-gstreamer not getting pulled in automatically to my Kubuntu install?  Does it really need to be Recommends for everyone?
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: Should the transitional package depend on bluetooth or bluez?
<ScottK-laptop> I guess it doesn't matter so much since apparently openoffice.org needs gstreamer some how too.
 * Hobbsee looks in
<ScottK-laptop> Heya Hobbsee.
<ScottK-laptop> Got any cures for anger, angst and a general desire to throw breakable things at the wall.
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: i hear a punching bag works well.
<ajmitch> greetings, Hobbsee
<ScottK-laptop> We actually have one of those.
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<jsgotangco> Hobbsee: about about a pointy stick of doom?
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: hmmm.  could try it...
 * jsgotangco *poofs*
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: please don't encourage Hobbsee
 * Hobbsee attacks ajmitch with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!â¢
 * ajmitch is mortally hurt
 * jsgotangco casts +10 STR and +4 DEX to ajmitch 
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> somehow I don't think that'd help
<ajmitch> not against the wrath of Hobbsee
<StevenK> Haha
<jsgotangco> yeah pretty hard to beat an enchanged stone golem
<StevenK> I think Blessing of Protection might help. For about 20 seconds.
<zul> maybe a woodpecker might help to reduce the long pointy stick of doom
<StevenK> Does anyone know where xml.dom.ext.reader went in Intrepid?
<ScottK-laptop> Is that part of python-xml?
<ajmitch> possibly -oldxml
<ajmitch> I don't think it
<StevenK> python-oldxml doesn't exist as a package
<ajmitch> I don't think it's a separate package, been too long since I saw it
<ajmitch> but there were things moved about in the namespace
<StevenK> The files are installed, but I can't figure out how to import it
<StevenK> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/oldxml/_xmlplus/dom/ext/reader/__init__.py exists, that is
<StevenK> And I can find no docs at all about how to import them now
<ajmitch> so it is in oldxml
<ajmitch>     sys.path.append('/usr/lib/python%s/site-packages/oldxml' % sys.version[:3])
<ajmitch> that doesn't help?
<StevenK> It does, excellent!
<ajmitch> dug out from the python-xml changelog
<ScottK-laptop> Figures.  Hurt my wrist on the punching bag.
<StevenK> How can I tell C++ which class I want when I get gtklookat.cpp:728: error: reference to 'resource_fetcher' is ambiguous ?
<slangasek> prefix it with a 'class::'?
<StevenK> slangasek: But it doesn
<StevenK> Argh
<StevenK> slangasek: But it doesn't have a class, since I declare it in namespace { }
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: Where do I go to get my bluetooth back?
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, back in what sense?
<ScottK-laptop> As in I click on kdebluetooth and the nice icon in my try never arrives.
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: Did you ever get anyone to do KDE testing (sorry I didn't get to it)?
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, no one ever responded to the post to kubuntu-devel
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  So what now.
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: Not sure if Bug #279983 is related on just a coincidence.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279983 in kdebluetooth "kblueplugd crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279983
<slangasek> StevenK: ok, then prefix it with namespace::, which works just like class:: ? :)
<StevenK> slangasek: Ahhh
<StevenK> I think my noobishness with C++ is showing
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: Also kdebluetooth now depends on a transitional package and so that needs fixing too.
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, I would say that doesn't appear to be a coincidence
<ScottK-laptop> OK.
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, looking at that exception kdebluetooth will need some rev'ing
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, do you guys have a liaison that normally operates on it?
<ScottK-laptop> No.
<ScottK-laptop> Tonio uploaded the last one
<ScottK-laptop> Actually he's uploaded the last several, so I guess he'd be the guy.
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: ^^
<StevenK> slangasek: namespace:: gives me "expected type-specifier before 'namespace'"
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, well hopefully Tonio has a contact with upstream and they've got a 4.x patch ready, or at least in the pipe
<slangasek> StevenK: hmm, when I said 'namespace::' I really meant "$namespace::'; did you sub in your namespace's name?
<StevenK> slangasek: But the namespace name is ""
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> then... hmm
<slangasek> no clue on that one, sorry :)
<slangasek> I never actually write C++, I just debug it from a safe distance :D
<StevenK> Haha
 * StevenK wonders if ::<foo> works
<slangasek> maybe!
<StevenK> error: expected type-specifier before '::' token
<StevenK> Sigh
<StevenK> Where's Stroustrup so I can hurt him ...
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: I'm going to be offline most of tomorrow.  Would you please catch up with him?
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, sure if I see him pop in
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: He's usually just in #kubuntu-devel IIRC
<superm1> i'm scared of too many KDE folk at once, so I might send nixternal in there to pull him into #ubuntu-devel
<ScottK-laptop> Well after this you should be ....
<StevenK> C++, I hate you
<ScottK-laptop> superm1: Just so you know, uncoordinated networkmanager updating broke knetworkmanager for a while this cycle, so people may be a bit grumpy about this.
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, well I wish someone would have at least responded to ubuntu-devel or kubuntu-devel ML about this.
<ScottK-laptop> I didn't get time to test it.
<superm1> ScottK-laptop, hopefully its resolvable  in a timely fashion
<ScottK-laptop> I just found out when I upgraded tonight.
<slangasek> ScottK-laptop: your bluetooth was working previously in intrepid, then?  Part of the reason for this late update was that large swaths of bluetooth functionality were miserably broken with 3.x and the current kernel :/
<ScottK-laptop> slangasek: It was (for file transfer to my phone).  I don't have an input device.
 * slangasek nods
<ScottK-laptop> slangasek: Fortunately superm1 is core-dev now, so he can fix it himself.
<slangasek> true!
<Hobbsee> siretart: no idea why gxine wasn't merged earlier - it's a straight merge from MoM.  Just dputting it to my PPA, if you end up playing a DVD, and want to test it.
<siretart> Hobbsee: I think it was simply because I didn't have the time and didn't get to it in the last merge window, and nobody else cared enough to do it anyways
<Hobbsee> siretart: fair enough
<siretart> Hobbsee: I'd say if you consider the changes to be mainly bugfix, just go ahead and upload it to intrepid. that version is working fine for ages in debian
<siretart> Hobbsee: if you want to test it, may I suggest putting it to ~motumedia?
<Hobbsee> siretart: looks like there's a lot of bugfixing stuff in that.
<Hobbsee> not sure what upstream ha schnaged yet
<Hobbsee> that's an idea.
<Hobbsee> yeah, that's a bugfix release.  excellent.
<Hobbsee> or at least, almost fully a bugfix release.
<stefanlsd> Am i right in saying if something is in main, it cant build depend or depend on something that is in universe?
<wgrant> stefanlsd: Oh, it can, but it won't build.
<wgrant> And the world will breka.
<wgrant> And people will complain at you unless you've written MIRs.
<stefanlsd> heh. so ok. as a rule.  something in main should only include build depends and depends on other software in main.
<StevenK> stefanlsd: s/should/can/
<stefanlsd> thanks. didnt realise that before.
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: and recommends.
<porthose> Any REVU Admin's around? It seems REVU is down.
<iulian> porthose: It works fine here.
<porthose> hmm that's not what Im getting
<porthose> this is what I'm getting http://pastebin.com/d5c988dde
<Hobbsee> darn.  gxine still crashes with the same thing.
<Hobbsee> ah well.
<stefanlsd> Hobbsee: you mentioned recommends above. is this also the case for suggests?
<orly_owl> Is there a channel for Ubuntu Stanic Edition?
<orly_owl> I'd like to do a similar thing for gNewSense.
<iulian> Yaay! A military helicopter just landed in front of my house.
 * iulian wonders what they want.
<orly_owl> Will you be on the news soon?
<iulian> I didn't do anything bad!
<orly_owl> Didn't you?
 * orly_owl looks at iulian suspiciously.
<iulian> Oh no, trust me.
<elmargol> iulian: don't send me a postcard if they bring you to guantanamo
<iulian> Hehe
<james_w> the sugar team would like to sync a new package from Debian. It's late for this, but it's not a new package, it's just a different source package name to the one in Ubuntu, is this acceptable?
<james_w> actually it wouldn't be a sync, it would be an upload, to provide a transition path
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: no
<stefanlsd> Hobbsee: thanks. i got it :)
<Hobbsee> stefanlsd: cool :)
<james_w> hey, who did the rcbugs update?
 * wgrant appears.
<wgrant> james_w: That would be me.
<james_w> cool, thanks wgrant
<james_w> though I now realise that my comments seem to have disappeared
<wgrant> I believe I moved over all of the existing ones.
<wgrant> Maybe somebody deleted them.
<james_w> maybe they were lost earlier then
<james_w> but they are not there any more
<james_w> like 20+ comments explaining why to ignore bugs, so that will be duplicate work now
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant> I'll check the DB.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<wgrant> james_w: They're not in the pre-migration copy of the DB. Somebody must have deleted them. It would be nice to auth against LP at some point, but until then I'll dump the DB regularly and watch for strangeness.
<james_w> thanks wgrant
<wgrant> Sorry about this.
<RainCT> hi
<Laney> Who has authority to decline bugs nominated for a release?
<RainCT> Laney: Anyone in ubuntu-dev, I think
<Hobbsee> me!  muhahahah!
<RainCT> (or perhaps its ubuntu-dev for universe/multiverse and ubuntu-core-dev for main/restricted, not sure)
<Laney> Please decline https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/263773 then
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263773 in ghc6 "ghc 6.8.2 has important performance bug, should be updated to 6.8.3" [Medium,Fix released]
<Laney> (and motu-sru members: please look at bug #280129)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280129 in ghc6 "Please SRU ghc6 in Hardy to fix correctness bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280129
<RainCT> done
<Laney> ty
<sistpoty|work> Laney: thanks for taking care... as written in the previous bug comment, I think the setResourceLimit (debian bug #491909) would also be good to have, what do you think?
<ubottu> Debian bug 491909 in ghc6 "System.Posix.Resource.setResourceLimit gives "setResourceLimit:" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/491909
<Laney> sistpoty|work: Yes, it would be nice to have but I think the other one is our primary concern here. You can emphasise it more in my option 1 if you'd like
<james_w> didn't you already fix that one?
<sistpoty|work> Laney: ok, I'll add a comment
<sistpoty|work> james_w: in intrepid, yes, but not in hardy
<james_w> ah, sorry, I misunderstood
<james_w> anybody with a Debian system want to play a game?
<Laney> a nice game of chess?
<james_w> Debian system with X that is
<james_w> not as fun as that I'm afraid
<Laney> Global Thermonuclear War?
<Laney> (I don't have one with X, sorry :()
<james_w> that's more like it
<RainCT> porthose: Hey, can you log in now?
<porthose> RainCT: checking
<porthose> RainCT: nope :-(
<porthose> RainCT: http://pastebin.com/d5a51d221
<RainCT> porthose: now?
<porthose> RainCT: I can sign in now thanks :)
<RainCT> porthose: Great. Btw, I got your help offer and will tell you if you can think of some way how you can help :). And if you have some idea, don't hesitate to tell me
<porthose> RainCT: k :)
<RainCT> (err s/if you can think of/if I can think of/)
<zul> StevenK: ping
<StevenK> zul: ?
<zul> StevenK: can you try the myodbc version in my ppa please?
<StevenK> zul: Or the mysql-dfsg-5.0 version?
<zul> StevenK: its a newer version of myodbc which is built against the mysql version in intrepid
<superm1> StevenK, I noticed you at least uploaded totem.  before you mass upload the rest, can you make sure that you have the transition bug number mentioned in debian/changelog?
<superm1> it will save having to go pointy clicky all over launchpad to check
<StevenK> superm1: Too late.
<superm1> :(
<StevenK> zul: Is that able to go into the archive? The reason I'm looking at myodbc is so I can get it out of NBS
<StevenK> superm1: Sorry :-(
<zul> StevenK: perhaps, we had a bug about this before I asked the user to try it out but they never got back to me
<kagou> Hi
<kagou> I believe that the Ubuntu Packaging Guide was available under yelp. But i can not fin it on Itrepid. Am I wrong ?
<kagou> no package for  Ubuntu Packaging Guide ?
<sistpoty|work> tseliot: general hint, after I saw bug #274866: please don't publish signed changes files, thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274866 in nvidia-settings "nvidia-settings creates invalid xorg.conf" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274866
<tseliot> sistpoty|work: ok
<james_w> porthose: hey, you still around?
<morgs> james_w: How are we looking with Sugar?
<james_w> hey morgs
<morgs> james_w: thanks for all your help by the way :)
<james_w> I think it's just the hulahop issue to crack then we can push this lot in
<morgs> james_w: I thought we needed a newer hulahop, but I had noted down the wrong version from debian. We have basically the same version, sugar-hulahop 0.4.1-1 is in intrepid and debian has python-hulahop 0.4.1-2
<james_w> yeah, I was just about to say that
<morgs> james_w: I had it failing to build in my PPA but I changed the deps from xulrunner-dev to xulrunner-1.9-dev and removed python-pyxpcom since that is in xulrunner-1.9 now, so it builds successfully in my PPA now
<james_w> an alternative to bringing in python-hulahop would be to patch the activity to use the other package, and then do the transition in Jaunty
<james_w> morgs: which were you working on in a PPA?
<morgs> james_w: I uploaded the debian packages to my PPA to motivate for the feature freeze exception
<morgs> Actually we also have "hulahop" in intrepid, 0.4.1ubuntu3
<james_w> 0.4-1ubuntu3, but yes
<morgs> which is the hardy package
<morgs> so it should work for now, although we can fix it better in jaunty
<james_w> could you test whether the web activity works if you change python-hulahop->hulahop in its dependencies?
<james_w> a use test I mean, it should build
<morgs> OK, I'll do that - although probably in a few hours as I'll be out for a bit
<james_w> morgs: no problem
<hendrixski> I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/trac-git  and am excited that trac-git will be packaged in Jaunty, has anybody done any work on backporting it to Hardy?
<hendrixski> err... it's scheduled for Intrepid, sorry
<directhex> does anyone have a convenient UK-based proxy server i can let an upstream use to help fix a problem on a region-locked website?
<hendrixski> but the dependancies listed all seem to fit with Hardy, so.. I'm wondering if it has to be backported or if it can just work as-is maybe?
<Laney> directhex: I can provide a shell account on a UK box if they promise not to try any nasty hax ;)
<directhex> Laney, x-forwarded firefox sucks (was just testing that idea myself), but thanks for the offer
<Laney> directhex: What about ssh -D?
<directhex> Laney, oh, that might work.
<hendrixski> :-( oh, wait trac-git requires trac 0.11 ... Hardy has 0.10.4 packaged.   Nevermind
<Laney> hendrixski: You might backport both, though
<hendrixski> Laney: I'm looking at the dependancies, and trac 0.11 looks like it *should* work on Hardy
<hendrixski> I tried backporting something with pbuilder a year or so ago, and it didn't turn out so well, is there an easier method these days?
<Laney> hendrixski: There's a program "prevu"
<hendrixski> nice.. and I assume https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Prevu is a decent manual to follow for it?
<Laney> sure
<hendrixski> and prevu doesn't add extra packages to my current system, right? it's got like a chroot in it somewhere? the way pbuilder did?
<Laney> It uses pbuilder behind the scenes
<hendrixski> sweet
<hendrixski> and... This backport wouldn't ever make it into an Hardy repository? since it bumps up a version number and all that, right?
<jdong> not necessarily...
<hendrixski> ah, Ok, soo... I'm going to grab some lunch, backport it, and see if I can get it into .. what's the process called, REVU or something? to get a package into the repo's?
 * hendrixski hasn't tried packaging in a long while
<Laney> backporting
<jdong> hendrixski: backporting
<jdong> hendrixski: if it works well let us know on hardy-backports in Launchpad
<hendrixski> jdong: will do
<slytherin> superm1: can you please take look at bug #280205?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280205 in bluez-utils "dpkg can't purge bluez-utils" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280205
<superm1> slytherin, should be handled by the upload i did this morning I thought
<superm1> slytherin, it was because the upgrades weren't pulling in bluez-utils 4.x
<slytherin> superm1: Ok. I didn't check in morning. But if you are sure can you just add comment in that bug?
<superm1> slytherin, sure, well hopefully it's taken care of.  I did a test with an intrepid install that had 3.x in a VM, upgraded to 4.x via dist-upgrade and then purged without trouble on the new package
<slytherin> ok
<superm1> slytherin, update your box and see, the more the merrier :)
<slytherin> superm1: will do about 2 hours form now. But I already have the stack from PPA
<superm1> slytherin, ah then you wouldn't see this issue
 * sistpoty|work calls it a day and heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<porthose> james_w: when you have time I left you a comment on Bug #276945
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276945 in ampache "[intrepid] menu buttons don't work on main page" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276945
<james_w> porthose: yeah, just looking now
<porthose> :)
<james_w> thanks for your perseverence
<james_w> I think you've got it this time
<james_w> two questions though
<james_w> +    * Removed prototype symlink creation from debian/ampache.postinst.
<james_w> I don't see this in this diff, wasn't this just something you did in a previous revision of this debdiff?
<porthose> checking
<james_w> +    * Added prototype symlink creation to debian/links.  This was done to
<james_w> +      correct a lintian error. (LP: #276945)
<james_w> I think that's a typo, I think you did that to fix this bug :-)
<porthose> for the first question no that was done in 0ubuntu2
 * hendrixski sighs
<hendrixski> I backported trac-git with prevu, but that doesn't backport the dependancies apparently because apt-get doesn't find python-genshi >=5.0
<hendrixski> so I backport python-genshi5.02 from intrepid
<porthose> james_w: for the second question, lintian was the root cause for this change, because prototype was a "convenance copy of code"
<hendrixski> and it's in the /var/cache/prevu/whatever directory with the other debs... but when I go to backport trac, which requires genshi, it's picking up the 4.* that's in Hardy
<RainCT> nhandler1: I've just fixed bug #275139 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275139 in revu "MOD_PYTHON ERROR on Comment" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275139
<james_w> porthose: ah yes, I remember.
<hendrixski> sooo... how do I get prevu to use the packages that are already backported intsead of the ones in the repo's?
<james_w> porthose: the only changes I can see to ampache.postinst don't remove any symlink creation code. Could you point out what I am missing, or check that you have posted a diff of what you think you have please?
<porthose> james_w: checking
<porthose> james_w: yes you are correct that is a typo.
<hendrixski> Oh, this is simpler than it sounds... umm...what was that command to make apt to favor packages in my one repo over other repo's?
<james_w> porthose: cool, so you are happy for me to upload http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18327114/amp3%2B5-debdiff after tweaking the changelog?
<porthose> james_w: yes
<directhex> yay, i got mentioned on boycottnovell.com's frontpage. woo!
<james_w> porthose: rockin'. I'll do that now.
<sebner> directhex: now you are famous :D
<porthose> james_w: Thanks :)
<directhex> sebner, man, all the hypocrites are out to get me now :)
<sebner> directhex: hrhr
<RainCT> hendrixski: sudo nano /etc/apt/preferences   ;)
<RainCT> hendrixski: here's an example on how it could look: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55349/
 * hendrixski checks the pastebin
<hendrixski> oooh. that looks promising
<hendrixski> I just create the /etc/apt/preferences if it's not there already, right?
<RainCT> hendrixski: yea
<hendrixski> and the higher the priority number the lower the priority?  or vice versa the higher the priority number the higher the priority?
<RainCT> hendrixski: higher = better
<hendrixski> :-)
 * hendrixski runs prevu trac once again
<james_w> porthose: uploaded, thank you for your contribution
<hendrixski> :-( prevu failed again:   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: python-genshi (>= 0.5) but it is not installable
<porthose> james_w: Thank you! :)
<hendrixski> RainCT: I can point /etc/apt/preferences at a repository (like the one that prevu makes in /var/prevu/cache/... and not just an individual release, right?
<RainCT> hendrixski: I guess so, but don't ask me how :P
<hendrixski> lol, k, I'll ask google
<hendrixski> ah, it's the v= flag
<jdong> hendrixski: python-genshi probably doesn't exist.
<jdong> at that version
<hendrixski> jdong: when I apt-cache search python genshi it shows both the 0.4.* in the Hardy repo and the Version: 0.5.0-1~8.04prevu1  that's in my repo
<jdong> hendrixski: did you run prevu-update before attempting the 2nd prevu build?
<hendrixski> oh
 * hendrixski feels really stupid now
<jdong> hehe common mistake
<hendrixski> well... at least I can console myself, I probably needed to update the /etc/apt/preferences to include the newer files anyway, right :-p
<hendrixski> looks like it's working this time :-D
<RainCT> is there anyone else who dislikes small text, beside norsetto?
<iulian> RainCT: Launchpad?
<RainCT> iulian: REVU
<RainCT> I've just added a Preferences page which allows to choose an alternate stylesheet with bigger fonts :P
<iulian> RainCT: Ah, it looks ok now IMHO.
<iulian> And yes, it was annoying before.
<hendrixski> w00t it's working :-)
<RainCT> iulian: uhm.. has it changed for you? it should still use the old size by default
<iulian> RainCT: It looks different here.
<RainCT> ah wait, there's a bug.. my coding skills get worse each day :P
<iulian> Heh
<hendrixski> heh, so only 3 packages needed to be backported for trac-git to work... now I'll install it, try it out, and submit them to hardy-backports on Launchpad
<RainCT> iulian: ok, fixed
<RainCT> persia: If you want a brown REVU: stylesheet proposals are welcome ;P
<persia> RainCT, You presume a level of visual artistry that is well beyond me.  Aside from my lack of skill, I'm also not physically capable of seeing many of the subtle distinctions that would annoy others.
<slytherin> ha ha ha
<slytherin> superm1: I don't understand your comment on bug #213885. File receiving was functionality of obex-data-server right? When did it move to gnome-user-share?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 213885 in bluez-gnome "receive incoming files does not work at startup" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213885
<superm1> slytherin, it's provided "by" ods
<superm1> but... bluez-gnome used to present it
<superm1> now gnome-user-share is the one that presents it
<slytherin> oh
<slytherin> then do we have gnome-user-share added in recommends of bluez-gnome?
<slytherin> or probably o-d-s
<superm1> well.. it recommends apache2
<superm1> which would mean apache2 on all machines
<slytherin> LOL. why does gnome-user-share recommend apache2?
<superm1> slytherin, it provides more sharing functionality via apache as well i guess
<superm1> crevette probably knows more about it
 * slytherin checks
<superm1> er actually it depends on apache2.  even better :)
<slytherin> ahh, webdav
<superm1> slytherin, if you don't agree with any of the triaging that I did, feel free to revert the status of any of those bugs.  I know upstream wouldn't have touched most of them, and a lot of them were fixed with the 4.x stuff
<superm1> so I tried to adjust as appropriately as I could
<slytherin> superm1: I would rather discuss it first. Because I am not aware of all the packages related to bluez.
<superm1> I don't mean to come stomping all over those bugs like I run the joint, but I was trying to be realistic about the debugging of some of those old traces and some of the features
<slytherin> superm1: yes I can understand that
<superm1> slytherin, but going forward on any bugs filed with the 4.x stack, I think if they are root caused/triaged, upstream will  be a lot more apt to help out with them etc
<superm1> jcastro, did you end up talking to marcel at all about bluez bugs and forwarding them upstream?
<slytherin> superm1: but this situation with file receiving is bad then. I am sure most of the users use file sharing aspect of bluetooth more. Of course of obex browsing works perfectly from nautilus then it is not an issue.
<slytherin> s/of obex browsing/if obex browsing
<superm1> slytherin, yeah browsing does, but your machine will have to support sharing files then in a browsable fashion
<jcastro> superm1: basically he wants all bugs to the mailing list
<jcastro> superm1: that trac instance is used other people, but not him
<superm1> jcastro, is there a good interface to have launchpad forward bugs to a mailing list?
<superm1> or one in development at least?
<slytherin> superm1: No I meant browsing remote device from my machine. I don't think that requires any configuration.
<jcastro> nope. :-/
<superm1> jcastro, then what do you think will be the most ideal workflow for bugs that need to be forwarded?
<jcastro> superm1: if he used the trac plugin we could have nice 2-way comment syncing and eventually forwarding, but he doesn't seem interested in having a bug tracker
<slytherin> why not ask him to subscribe to bugs in bluez package. That package didn't exist in hardy so he will not receive mails for older release.
<jcastro> superm1: I would mail the critical ones to the mailing list
<jcastro> slytherin: he's not interested
<slytherin> ohh
<superm1> jcastro, that's too bad.
<jcastro> superm1: yeah, I would concentrate on the major bugs and patches
<jcastro> I wouldn't expect anyone would be interested in mailing minor/wishlist bugs to a mailing list
<superm1> jcastro, bluez traditionally doesn't see a lot of patches actually written and attached to the bugs.  I think apport crashes will be the most worthwhile sending then at least
<superm1> I mean i've written a few patches that I sent to the mailing list myself, but I've not seen many people doing similar things
<slytherin> superm1: in my opinion bluez on linux is still a mystery for most of the users, even the advanced ones.
<superm1> slytherin, yeah, it's excessive use of dbus for everything I think adds a lot of confusion, and makes it difficult to root cause where problems actually lie
<superm1> slytherin, o
<superm1> slytherin, bug 272150
<superm1> slytherin, did you have some ideas on that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272150 in hal "Don't run bluetooth applet when no bluetooth hardware is present" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272150
<slytherin> superm1: I saw the bug. But I don't think we can do anything about it as of now.
<fabrice_sp> emgent: did you contact Tony, for Bug #279755 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279755 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] remastersys" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279755
<emgent> fabrice_sp: yep, i'm working to him about that..
<fabrice_sp> So I will tranfer the bug to you
<fabrice_sp> or should I transfer it to him?
<emgent> feel free to assign this bug to me.
<fabrice_sp> done: i'll look for another package to package
<emgent> ok thanks. now i have to go. see you later
<slytherin> superm1: do you think we can drop dependency of libbluetooth from totem? I believe it is useful only for bemused client plugin. bemused is not even packaged in Ubuntu and the last upstream series was on December 19, 2003
<superm1> slytherin, are you sure that's all it's used for?
<superm1> slytherin, i'd double check the code for any bluetooth references
<superm1> or bluetooth header files used etc
<slytherin> superm1: I will check tomorrow.
<RainCT> (REVU has a "Get notification emails for anything related to my uploads." option now :))
<slytherin> superm1: also the way it is packaged currently, there is no .totem-plugin file for this plugin. So I suppose it is not even initialised.
<slytherin> RainCT: wow, that is great work. Thanks a lot. :-)
<RainCT> Next thing on my list: apt-get'able source repository \o/
<RainCT> Does apt-get support server-side redirects?
<cody-somerville> Any motu-sru out there?
<slytherin> RainCT: You mean HTTP 302, right? I think it does.
<geser> slytherin, RainCT: no it doesn't; see bug #18645
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 18645 in apt "apt does not handle HTTP redirects" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18645
<crevette> hello
<crevette> superm1, slytherin; around ?
<slytherin> crevette: yes
<crevette> slytherin: it seem syou were discussing ods and gnome-user-share few minutes ago
<crevette> do you have any particular problem
<slytherin> crevette: No. I was just discussing some comment superm1 added on a bug.
<crevette> ah okay
<slytherin> crevette: I have a problem. Nothing bluetooth works on my machine. :-P Seems to be hardware issue.
<crevette> I'm the guy working on gnome-user-share update with bluez 4.x
<crevette> slytherin: ah
<crevette> in which direction ?
<RainCT> geser: too bad. well, I guess I can also get it working without redirects. thanks for the info
<slytherin> crevette: either
<crevette> I don't know much on bluez lo layer
<crevette> low
<slytherin> hmm
<crevette> what device is it ?
<slytherin> crevette: 'Enter', USB dongle.
<slytherin> crevette: got to go. past midnight here. Want to get some good sleep. :-)
<siretart> james_w: is it possible to import a dsc file wiht import-dsc that skips an upstream release?
<crevette> ah good night
<siretart> james_w: I try to import http://incoming.debian.org/vlc_0.9.4-1.dsc into lp:~motumedia/vlc/vlc..
<siretart> james_w: the branch has 0.9.2, debian has skipped 0.9.3
<james_w> siretart: should work
<siretart> bzr: ERROR: No such tag: upstream-debian-0.9.3
<siretart> that's what I get
<siretart> which is correct, but doesn't help me :)
<james_w> siretart: ah, yeah, I'll need to help you convert to the new way of doing things.
<james_w> siretart: it will be better, I promise :-)
<directhex> mmmmm krispy kreme
<james_w> siretart: there just wasn't a good way to automatically transition
<james_w> siretart: can you give me pointers to the branches that you use?
<siretart> james_w: a checkout of lp:~motumedia/vlc/vlc
<james_w> siretart: thanks, I'll take a look
<james_w> siretart: ah, sorry, I misunderstood
<james_w> siretart: it's a bug, let me investigate
<siretart> james_w: filed as bug #280381
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280381 in bzr-builddeb "fails to import vlc 0.9.4 into ~lp:motumedia/vlc/vlc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280381
<james_w> siretart: ok, so, it's looking for the upstream version corresponding to the preceeding entry in debian/changelog. What do you think it should do if it can't find it?
<siretart> issue a warning and skip that changelog entry?
<siretart> in this particular case, 0.9.3 was prepared, but never uploaded
<james_w> it could walk backwards through the versions until it finds the one that it has got
<james_w> yeah, so you would expect to look back and try 0.9.2?
<siretart> at least not uploaded to debian, but kept at some public_html on http://videolan.org/~xtophe...
<james_w> siretart: you would expect a warning?
<siretart> hm, I expected it to just import 0.9.4 and don't fail because 0.9.3 is missing
<james_w> oh yeah, I agree
<siretart> I wasn't aware that the debian/changelog in the to be imported source package mentions 0.9.3 at all, so no, I didn't really expect it to issue a warning
<james_w> you just said "issue a warning", and I was wondering if you would be surprised if it did it quietly
<siretart> however it would be informative
<siretart> no, I wouldn't be surprised if it did not do the warning
<superm1> crevette, what's up?
<crevette> hello superm1
<siretart> shall i tag the 0.9.2 revision with 0.9.3 as workaround?
<james_w> "This package references an upstream version, 0.9.3, that is not in the ancestry of your branch. You may wish to import that version first"
<james_w> siretart: that would work, how about I come up with a fix you can test?
<siretart> sure!
<james_w> shouldn't be too hard
<james_w> siretart: dinstall ran :-)
<siretart> james_w: cf. http://pkg-multimedia.alioth.debian.org/uploads/ in 2 minutes (still uploading)
<ajmitch> hi
<superm1> crevette, where were you at on gnome-user-share?  do things need to be adjusted still then?
<superm1> crevette, and is there any way you can break off the apache requirement?  or does it break the experience by doing so
<james_w> siretart: ah, I was wrong again, it's not looking at the ancestry of the package that you are importing, it's looking at the changelog in the branch.
<james_w> siretart: the intent is that you maintain a debian branch and an ubuntu branch, and here you are trying to import a debian upload in to the ubuntu branch. The ancestry of the branch and package don't match, so it falls over.
<crevette> superm1: I'm stuck on bluetooth reception now, it seems obex-data-server can't be started on my station
<siretart> james_w: dget http://pkg-multimedia.alioth.debian.org/uploads/vlc_0.9.4-1.dsc should work now
<superm1> crevette, why can't it be?
<superm1> crevette, you are on the latest stuff in intrepid right?
<crevette> yep
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Any motu-release to have a look at FFe in bug 242572?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242572 in wxsvg "Upgrade wxsvg package to b11" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242572
<crevette> I tried the test server provided in o-d-s and it doesn't work
<siretart> james_w: right. If I revert to the debian branch (bzr pull -rtag:debian-0.9.2-1 . --overwrite), then the import succeeds
<james_w> siretart: so the way that this is supposed to work now is for you to maintain two branches and import debian uploads to the debian one, and then "bzr merge" to the ubuntu one, do your thing, and then use "bzr mark-uploaded" when you upload.
<siretart> james_w: okay, I see. I'll keep that in mind
<siretart> james_w: I assume the problem will more or less vanish as soon as the imports of the launchpad importer get published
<crevette> superm1: Ihave you've time I'd be happy that you test my ppa build of gnome-user-share
<crevette> :)
<siretart> james_w: btw, do you have a status update on that?
<crevette> s/Ihave/If/
<james_w> siretart: yeah, but the first stage won't manage the Debian branches for you, so you will have to keep doing that for yourself for a while longer I'm afraid.
<siretart> james_w: ah, I see
<superm1> crevette, huh?
<james_w> siretart: I've got an import running right now to help me debug things on a large scale. Work has also started on the launchpad side to make it able to host these branches. Hopefully in the next couple of months we should be rolling this out.
<james_w> siretart: the Debian stuff is targeted to be done by the release of Jaunty
<siretart> wow. that's great news! good work!
<james_w> I'm trying to clear some of the Intrepid bugs off my plate so I can focus on it more, it's hard work though.
<crevette> superm1: what is the problem ?
<superm1> crevette, that question or statement of yours didn't make sense.
<superm1> crevette, I have you've time?  I think you were meaning if I had time to test your ppa build of gnome user share?
<crevette> yep, that not what I wrote ?
<crevette> Â«  Ihave you've time I'd be happy that you test my ppa build of gnome-user-share Â» with s/Ihave/If/
<crevette> :)
<superm1> crevette, it didn't read right.  yeah that makes more sense
<superm1> crevette, i'll see what I can do
<crevette> okay tx
<synic> is this a good place to as PPA questions?
<directhex> packaging, yes
<directhex> #launchpad for issues with ppa management itself
<synic> ok, I accidentally uploaded a file named 0.2.14~ppa0~intrepid0 into the ppa, but into the hardy distro
<synic> basically, I need to come up with a version number that's > 0.2.14~ppa0~intrepid0
<synic>  exaile_0.2.14~hardy1~ppa0 doesn't work
<synic>  exaile_0.2.14~hardy0~ppa1 doesn't work either
<directhex> correct
<synic> what will work?
<directhex> you're aware of the alphabet, yes?
<directhex> "p" is higher than "h"
<synic> yup.
<directhex> so 0.2.14~poeruihfeuirhfceuirhfvuiehruifgh is gonna be higher than 0.2.14~hqwyqwy7gdqw67teqwygd
<synic> alright.
<directhex> so the short answer is "be higher than 'p'. personally i'd request package deletion, wait a few hours, then stick it on as originally planned
<ScottK> I see the Flash 10 RC update bug has finally been put out of it's misery.
 * RAOF sees that someone's broken gnome-desktop-sharp
<crimsun> ScottK: too many components (ia32-libs, nspluginwrapper) needed to fall into place.
<james_w> morgs: nice work, have you tested it works as well?
<james_w> morgs: add removing hulahop to the TODO list for Intrepid as well, it's not needed, so we should kick it out.
<james_w> morgs: it looks like we're set to go. I'll try and find some time tomorrow to sponsor everything
<crevette> superm1: around?
<superm1> crevette, yeah
<crevette> as I said I can't receive files over Bluetooth in gnome-user-share, I tend to suspect obex-data-server, how can I debug that?
<crevette> I killed the process and launch a new one in a console
<ScottK> crimsun: Yes.  I'm glad someone finally got it worked out.
<crevette> I don't see any error
<crevette> superm1: but python ods-server-test.py  opp /home/baptiste/Bureau/ spews a dbus error
<crevette> ah seems to works now ...
<crevette> I tested a dozen of time before
<superm1> crevette, just needed a magic touch then?
<crevette> hmm
<crevette> not sure
<crevette> g-u-s still don't work
<RAOF> Whoops!  Why is the gnome-desktop-sharp packaging borked?
<ajmitch> RAOF: someone broked it?
<ajmitch> last upload was a no-change rebuild
<RAOF> Yeah; it was broken before then (and the rebuild won't actually have done anything, it seems)
<ajmitch> any more details than 'broken'?
<RAOF> It doesn't depend on its dependencies, and it depends on libgnome-desktop-2 rather than libgnome-desktop-2-7
<crevette> superm1: broken again... http://pastebin.ca/1223146
<superm1> crevette, i would suspect you have multiple running at the same time when that's happening?
<ion_> Anyone up for sponsoring http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18250664/iconv.debdiff to fix LP #278195? Thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278195 in gnokii "Incorrect encoding for the synchronized entries" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278195
<crevette> superm1: perhaps ...
<crevette> I thought it would support several servers in the same time, but even with ods-server-test it fails
<luckyone> hello masters of the universe
<luckyone> question for you - how hard is it to add something like a simple script to the repos?
<directhex> luckyone, what's the goal?
<luckyone> this script in this thread, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=874957&highlight=encode-handheld, is quite useful to me - I would like to get it in the repos so that I don't have to update it on every machine I run it on
<luckyone> so I don't have to *manually* update it
<luckyone> I can let apt take care of it
<luckyone> the package would only contain the script, but it would be pretty handy
<directhex> well, you could package it certainly
<directhex> there are more useless packages out there
<luckyone> hehe
<luckyone> reading wiki now
<luckyone> so I could essentially create a package for this and put it in the repos?
<emgent> nhandler: utu fixed.
<nhandler> emgent: Nice job.
<emgent> thanks to you :)
<emgent> now waiting cron job.
 * ajmitch probably won't be at the top of the list
<crimsun> I know I won't be ;-)
<emgent> hehe
<ajmitch> kick that cron job harder
 * ajmitch should probably do something at least before release
<NCommander> ajmitch, care to sponsor an upload?
<RAOF> ajmitch: You're still core-dev, right?  You can sponsor at least one trivially correct mono upload!
<ajmitch> for some strange reason, someone assigned a bug to me
<ajmitch> how close to the CoC can I go in educating this person?
 * ajmitch has never touched this package before
<directhex> tell them "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries"
<ajmitch> NCommander: what is the upload?
<ajmitch> RAOF: and yes, I could sponsor a mono upload, given how many times I've had fun uploading it in the past
<NCommander> Bug fix to orage. Its pending upload in Debian, but we're waiting for lenny to be released before it goes :-)
<ajmitch> k
<RAOF> It's not actually mono, it's gnome-desktop-sharp ;)
<ajmitch> RAOF: even better, I've got the source of that one & was looking at its debian/control file when you mentioned it earlier
<RAOF> You'd be looking at bug #280365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280365 in gnome-desktop-sharp2 "libgnomedesktop2.20-cil missing dependencies, dllmap" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280365
<james_w> NCommander: "I think the change is too invasive for Intrepid. We'll fix in Jaunty :)" ?
<ajmitch> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18349576/fix-gnomedesktop-cil.debdiff is the final fix?
<NCommander> james_w, it needs to be fixed in Intrepid, exo pretty broken without it
<james_w> NCommander: I didn't write that, you might want to discuss it in the bug to get consensus, surely?
<ajmitch> don't you love the messy dllmap stuff that has to be done?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<NCommander> james_w, just to make sure we're on the same page, we're talking about the firefox.sh bug, right?
<james_w> NCommander: no, the orage bug
<james_w> NCommander: I'm quoting the bug report.
<NCommander> james_w, we did for Orage?
 * NCommander checks
<RAOF> We should rig up a dev so-link -> real library munger, make that automatic.
<RAOF> ajmitch: Unless there are any _other_ typos in the changelog, yes.
 * ajmitch is just wondering why there are 2 dllmap patches now
<NCommander> james_w, I'm talking about a straight upload for Ubuntu
<ajmitch> sure, it's nice to have separated patches & all, but these do effectively similar things
<NCommander> james_w, (I'm the one who committed the fix into pkg-xfce ;-))
<NCommander> Oh I see
<NCommander> I didn't see cody's comment
<directhex> RAOF, talk to meebey about adding it to cli-common?
<NCommander> Ok
<james_w> NCommander: I know, I saw you do it
<RAOF> directhex: Yeah.  Once it's actually written, of course!
<directhex> RAOF, at least ask for guidance
<RAOF> Right.
<ajmitch> RAOF: also, is it worth pulling in the change from 2.20.1-3 ?
<ajmitch> which is just making certain packages arch: all
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-09
<NCommander> james_w, ok good, we're on the same page, and I'm just insane.
<RAOF> We could pull them in if you like.
 * ajmitch hasn't touched these for a long time, so doesn't exactly have intimate knowledge of the packages in question
<james_w> NCommander: and if it's not to be fixed in lenny then an upload to unstable blocks the easy route for a possible RC bug fix later. Uploading to experimental for something non-experimental is a bit silly.
<james_w> NCommander: if you want the fix in Intrepid, and Cody agrees then just upload it direct, it's no problem if it's in SVN.
<NCommander> james_w, ok, I understand now ;-)
<RAOF> ajmitch: The -3 changes look safe; we can pull them in if you'd like.  I'd also be happy to just fix this bug, given release nearness.  I'm about as happy either way.
<ajmitch> for safety reasons, probably just fixing this for now
<RAOF> 'twas my thinking.  Would you like the gnomedesktop dllmap rolled into the other dllmap patch, then?
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> just waiting for pbuilder now
<ajmitch> hm, I'll have to check it after lunch, must run out for a bit
<RAOF> Ok.  You've unsubscribed u-m-s from that bug, right?
<ajmitch> RAOF: of course not :)
<ajmitch> RAOF: I'm not currently a member of u-m-s
<emgent> hehe
<StevenK> ajmitch: That can be fixed.
<ajmitch> it could
<ajmitch> but none of the administrators are speaking up at the moment, so sad
<ajmitch>  Depends: libglib2.0-cil (>= 2.12.1), libgnome-desktop-2-7 (>= 1:2.23.90), libgtk2.0-cil (>= 2.12.1), libmono-corlib1.0-cil (>= 1.2.2.1)
<ajmitch> am hoping that is proper & correct now
<RAOF> ajmitch: Yes, that's right.  The last upload lacked the libgnome-desktop-2-7 dep.
 * StevenK uploaded a rebuild of libgnomedesktop2.20-cil last night for that reason
<RAOF> StevenK: Yeah.  That rebuild broke the package :)
<StevenK> :-(
<RAOF> Well, broke the Depends, which allowed apt to remove libgnome-desktop-2, which broke the package :)
<directhex> poor StevenK, we love you really
<StevenK> RAOF: Well, better now, since libgnome-desktop-2 is NBS
<StevenK> And I'm plotting to remove it from the archive
 * ajmitch dputs
<RAOF> Go for it, I don't see any rdepends (and ajmitch is presumably uploading a fixed gnome-desktop-sharp2 soon) :)
<StevenK> Hmmm. That's what I uploaded
<RAOF> Yeah, but you needed to add a patch.
<ajmitch> StevenK: -2ubuntu3 wasn't enough to fix it
<StevenK> What did I screw up?
<ajmitch> mono packages are spethial
<RAOF> Mono stuff generally doesn't actually try to resolve the .so symlink.
<ajmitch> ok, uploaded
<RAOF> It hardcodes the SONAME in the .config files.
<ajmitch> evil, isn't it?
<RAOF> Someone should add something to cli-common-dev to fix it.  dh_i_hate_config or something.
<ajmitch> dh_dtrt
<RAOF> Heh
<StevenK> Argh. That reminds me of some package I touched for NBS. It built but always got marked Failed to upload
 * ajmitch forgot he left debmirror running over lunch
<ajmitch> only at 33%
<StevenK> The version number was hard-coded in debian/rules, too ...
<ajmitch> oh that's great to do, too
<ajmitch> hopefully it won't take long to grab the other 6.6GB of hardy & intrepid packages
 * ajmitch hugs the uncapped connection at work
 * StevenK misses the 2Mbit upload/download connection at $OLD_WORK
<ajmitch> it's somewhere north of that here
<ajmitch> I've seen it get close to 10Mbps
<StevenK> I'm guessing that :-)
<ajmitch> 802.11something
<StevenK> 802.11n ?
<ajmitch> no idea, the isp installed the hardware
<StevenK> Hmmmm. New d-i
<ajmitch> RAOF: upload accepted, at leastt
<ajmitch> so my gpg key hasn't been forgotten from the keyring :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: Just got the mail.  Thanks!
 * StevenK will have to keep in mind Mono is spethial ...
<RAOF> YOu just need to more carefully check the build logs; there would have been a warning about failing to resolve dependencies for libgnome-desktop-2.so.2
<ajmitch> and you would have scratched your head, gone "whuh?" & beaten the package some
<StevenK> Ah yes. dh_clideps: Warning: Missing shlibs entry: libgnome-desktop-2.so.2 or gnome-desktop-2 for: gnomedesktop-sharp.dll!
<ajmitch> you have to wonder if some of these warnings should cause it to fail instead
<StevenK> Yup
<RAOF> Sometimes; GNOME-do _also_ has that warning, because it doesn't ship a shlibs file for the internal libdo.so
<ajmitch> something that'd have to be smarter, like checking if the library is in the package itself
<RAOF> Right.
<directhex> file wishlists against cli-common rather than moaning, imho
<zul> StevenK: did you try the myodbc stuff/
<StevenK> zul: I saw it built, that was really my only concern
<slangasek> built where?
<zul> my ppa
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> is the ABI skew fixed?
<zul> slangasek: we should probably get a ffe because its kind of useless with the newer version of mysql
<slangasek> that sounds like the ABI skew isn't fixed
<danbh_intrepid> how do I ask for the removal of an outdated package?
<zul> perhaps
<danbh_intrepid> just file a bug report?
<Hobbsee> yes, and subscribe teh corresponding sponsorship team
<danbh_intrepid> Hobbsee: how do I find the sponsorship team?
<danbh_intrepid> is that the same as the maintainer?
<Hobbsee> danbh_intrepid: /topic
<Hobbsee> see the Contributing link
<Hobbsee> it mentions them there
<emet> you know the Mono 1.9.1 in Intrepid is actually basically a early beta version of Mono 2.0
<danbh_intrepid> mk
<emet> so it's quite unstable and buggy
 * Hobbsee notes the guy who did the mono packages has already said "no, we're not updating"
<emet> not smart, that's all I have to say
<slangasek> you should say it to the people working on the package, rather than using this whole channel as a go-between
<RAOF> emet: Also, you'd need mono 2.0 packages to actually exist before you could advocate their use.  The Debian mono team has spent some time on it, and still hasn't finished packaging 2.0.
<emet> okay I am just saying I personally submitted many bug reports against 1.9.1 that were fixed in later versions, 1.9.x series of Mono was basically the beta series of 2.0, so it's equivalent to shipping Mono 2.0 Beta 1
<RAOF> But do they affect packages that we care about is the more important question. :)
<emet> launchpad will be getting a large amount of bug reports that will be duplicates of bugs marked fixed in Novell's tracker, that's for sure
<RAOF> Hasn't seemed to so far.  If you run into specific bugs with our packages, feel free to file a bug against the relevant package; there's still time to pull in bugfixes.
<RAOF> But there's certainly not time to pull in mono 2.0
<coppro> mono 2.0 doesn't have DirectX, does it?
<RAOF> coppro: In roughly the same way that mysql doesn't have opengl, yes.
<emet> yeah well the situation looks bad either way with Mono, I understand that we are too close to release to include Mono 2.0 even if Debian/Ubuntu MOTU team can package it in time
<coppro> RAOF: :(
<emet> but at the same time there was a lot of bugs I've had with Mono 1.9.1 that were fixed in 2.0, but I don't know how many people will effected by them, but really it wasn't the most tested or bug free release
<RAOF> emet: Right.  Which is why _we've_ tested 1.9.1 :)
<emet> probably not as well as Novell did as they released the updated versions heading towards Mono 2.0
<RAOF> Almost certainly much better, at least for our purposes.
<emet> I am not saying Mono 2.0 is the most stable and bug free thing ever, I am sure it's full of bugs too, but it really fixed a mess of bugs between 1.9.1 and 2.0, without adding many features that could introduce more bugs
<iulian> Morning.
<didrocks> morning
<orly_owl> Does launchpad seem slow to anyone else?
<persia> orly_owl, Not more than usual.
<orly_owl> I'm just looking to see if a bug for project-x has been filed.
<orly_owl> Prompts users to agree to a free software license: http://notzzap.zzzzz.ws/project-x.png
<Koon> james_w: about bug 275608, that panel is more broken than I thought, also inverts password fields, see duplicate bug 280265 -- can you please unsubscribe universe-sponsors, this is not ready yet for uploading.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275608 in network-manager-openvpn "nm-openvpn swaps ca-cert and user-cert labels when using "Passwords with Certificate (TLS)" mode" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275608
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280265 in network-manager-openvpn "Wrong handle of passwords (dup-of: 275608)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280265
<huats> morning !
<morgs> james_w: thanks
<james_w> hey morgs
<james_w> morgs: does the web activity work nicely with the package pulled from Debian?
<morgs> james_w: hi
<morgs> james_w: it works better, although I still had some minor issue which I'm checking out now
<james_w> morgs: cool, minor sounds ok to fix up afterwards.
<morgs> yes
<james_w> morgs: sync requests sponsored, sugar-hulahop uploaded. Would you like me to hold back on uploading sugar until the sync requests are processed?
<morgs> james_w: how long do you think it will take?
<james_w> morgs: not sure, few hours to a few days
<morgs> james_w: OK, yes please - sugar would be broken without the others (not that it *really* matters right now since nobody's using it yet that I know of)
<james_w> morgs: cool, ping me if I forget
<morgs> james_w: OK, will do
<morgs> james_w: you could go ahead with Bug 280424 any time, since that package is already in intrepid and didn't build yet
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280424 in sugar-hulahop "Build deps wrong, doesn't build" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280424
<Hobbsee> sync requests will probably take a while
<morgs> (oh, you did :)
<Hobbsee> but there's nothing stopping you from using sync-source.py
<morgs> I'll add in the LP: # next time, thanks
<james_w> yeah, I don't think there's a need yet, but thanks Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> y/w
<persia> Hobbsee, Is there a specific reason for that?  sync-source.py tends to waste some resources, or so I was advised.
<persia> Hobbsee, Can't you just get annoyed, and sync everything anyway?
<Hobbsee> persia: specific reason for what, sorry?
<persia> For "sync requests will probably take a while"
<Hobbsee> persia: they seem to have so far.  Release team seems to have been focussing on other stuff, apart from the -archive queue
<Hobbsee> and they're (mostly) the same people
<Hobbsee> persia: feel free to ask slang*asek for a ETA, though, because that may have changed.
<Hobbsee> persia: the reason sync-source.py was discouraged was that sometimes it wasn't putting the launchpad bugs headers in correctly, iirc.
<Hobbsee> the bugs fixed ones, iirc.
<persia> Oh.  I thought I saw seb128 say that he would be processing some fairly soon a couple days ago.
<persia> Not syncing is frustrating, as we don't get testing of stuff where we are coordinating with upstream : only stuff where we're not.
<Hobbsee> ah, good.  i hadn't seen that.
<StevenK> seb128 did a whole bunch yesterday
<rawler> if I want to post a feature-request for an Ubuntu-package, where should I post it? (small feature, writing a blueprint feels like overkill) is posting a bug appropriate?
<slytherin> rawler: which package?
<slytherin> rawler: file bug on launchpad. the request will probably get forwarded to upstream.
<rawler> wireshark.. it's missing a mimetype for pcap, meaning that it can't register itself as default-program for pcap-files..
<persia> That's a bug.
<rawler> oki.. thanks. :)
<Hobbsee> emgent: is there any particular reason https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/fetchmail/+bug/240549 hasn't been actioned yet?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240549 in fetchmail "fetchmail denial of service CVE-2008-2711" [Unknown,Fix released]
<james_w> anyone know where viruskiller went?
<james_w> I can't find a removal bug, and it's not in removals.txt
<james_w> but it has "Deleted in intrepid-release"
<persia> james_w, Was it removed from Debian?  There's a script that just culls stuff that runs sometimes.
<james_w> persia: nope
<james_w> it's non free in Intrepid, I just went to sync a free version and was told that it's not in Intrepid
<persia> Err, if you've a free version, that would be a regression.  Complain vociferously at whoever rejected the sync.
<wgrant> james_w: removals.txt is long obsolete.
<wgrant> See https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/viruskiller/+publishinghistory
<wgrant> Which is buggy.
<wgrant> Huh.
<wgrant> It's missing a date, but it gives the comment.
<james_w> persia: no-one rejected it.
<james_w> thanks wgrant
<persia> james_w, How were you told it wasn't in intrepid?
<james_w> persia: requestsync
<wgrant> requestsync will do that.
<StevenK> Deleted  on 2008-09-30  by Jonathan Riddell
<persia> Oh.  Yeah.
<persia> No reason not to put it back.
<james_w> Riddell: hi, you removed viruskiller as it is non-free, I assume you have no objection to me requesting a sync of a free version from Debian?
<Riddell> james_w: not at all, want me to just do that?
<james_w> Riddell: if that's no trouble, version in unstable please.
<Riddell> james_w: what's your launchpad id?
<james_w> Riddell: james-w
<james_w> Riddell: if you are already there would it be possible to do the requested syncs of the sugar related packages? the sugar team has been working hard on that, and would like to get on with the next part.
<james_w> Riddell: no worry if not, it's not urgent.
<Riddell> james_w: bug numbers?  I'm in a meeting just now but probably after
<james_w> Riddell: thanks, I'll pull them together.
<james_w> Riddell: 277798 280144 277790 277789 277788 277787 277782 277779 277778 277777 277776
<james_w> thanks
<emgent> Hobbsee: yep, it`s a very minor bug.
<RainCT> Hi
<nhandler> Hi RainCT
<bddebian> Heya gang
<persia> bddebian, Did you get the gpib build sorted?
<bddebian> Heya persia
<bddebian> No not yet :(
<persia> OK.  I saw the missing Kbuild comment, but didn't hear anything else, and didn't know if you wanted me to look deeper.
<bddebian> persia: I can't even find a Kbuild :(
<persia> Even in the old package?
<bddebian> Nope
<persia> Hrm.  Odd.  That should have broken the old one.
<directhex> someone give me a good reason not to get incredibly pissed off at someone posting on a debian ITP i'm working on
<bddebian> persia: mga-vid doesn't have one either and it builds.
<slytherin> directhex: bug number please
<persia> directhex, All contributions are welcome, even the most minor, or those that appear to be obnoxious.  Invite closer discussion, and collaboration.  I'm sure you'd appreciate a tester.
<directhex> slytherin, 501190
<directhex> persia, i'd appreciate both. i don't appreciate dripping hypocrisy though
<persia> directhex, Sometimes you have to ignore part of a message to get to the good bit.  Sometimes the good bit is the headers.
<directhex> persia, the good bit is having the *gnash* maintainer say a plugin shouldn't be allowed into debian if it isnt' a 100% compatible equivalent
<directhex> visit bbc.co.uk/iplayer and get 600 meg of ram eaten, but he's acting high & mighty?
<persia> directhex, That doesn't look like the good bit.  That looks like the annoying bit.
<directhex> persia, i can't tell the difference these days
<persia> directhex, In that case, spend an hour in a park on a sunlit day.
<directhex> persia, it's about 6 degrees outside
<persia> directhex, bundle up then :)
 * persia remembers days when the thermometer read the same in F and C.
<directhex> i'm being advised by my sponsor to ignore it
<persia> Right.  This is one of those cases where the headers are the good bit.
<bddebian> persia: Do you know if I should have the .ko files before I get to that part?
<persia> I think you shouldn't, but my kernel-fu is very weak.
<bddebian> Join the club :)
<slytherin> superm1: ping
<superm1> slytherin, pong
<slytherin> superm1: a problem with nautilus-sendto. It doesn't have dependency on libbtctl4 and hence produces an error when the library I snot installed.
<slytherin> superm1: I think problem is present even when library is installed. Looks like some other error.
<superm1> slytherin, okay so no root cuase yet then?
<slytherin> superm1: Do I need to restart nautilus?
<superm1> slytherin, i would think so.
<superm1> slytherin, between you and crevette, didn't one of you test it?
<superm1> that's what i thought the comment was on the bug
<slytherin> superm1: I didn't test it.
<radix> Hi all, I'm maintaining a package which creates /var/log/<package>/ and /var/lib/<package>/ - is it okay, in purge, to just delete everything inside those directories, or should I be more specific about what I delete? I couldn't find anything about this in debian-policy
<slytherin> superm1: It was nhandler who worked on it. not crevette
<slytherin> I am confused. :-(
<superm1> this is the reason i uploaded it:
<superm1> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez-utils/+bug/274950/comments/66
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274950 in gvfs "Look into switching to bluez 4.x" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<slytherin> superm1: let me try restarting machine.
<slytherin> superm1: didn't work even after restart. Can you please check once?
<persia> Hrm.  nhandler and crevette are away : they'd be the best people to pester about n-s-t not working.
<jdstrand> kees: so stefanlsd, wgrant and I were thinking of changing the changelog format for -security updates
<kees> jdstrand: I'm for it.  my goals would be documentation and obvious linkages between CVE#s and changed items
<jdstrand> kees: the current format in SecurityUpdateProcedures has a couple of issues
 * kees agrees
<jdstrand> kees: cool, here is an example we came up with...
<kees> I'd like to tie CVE# to change more closely -- like how we already use (LP: #...)
<jdstrand> kees: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55688/
<kees> and references should probably be subitems for the fixed areas (but only when there isn't an appropriate place for them in an existing patch system)
<jdstrand> kees: I think the example does that
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, that looks good to me, though the long series of yelling 'SECURITY UPDATE' is a bit funny.  Not sure the best way to address that, though
<jdstrand> kees: basically '*' corresponds to a patchset/CVEset
<kees> right, I like it.
<jdstrand> kees: well, that is a holdover from the previous way
<kees> I'd like to keep "credit" in the changelog, but put patch references in the patches.  when it's a native-patch, the ref should go in the changelog.  what do you think of that?
<kees> e.g.:   - debian/patches/blah.patch: [what it fixes], thanks to so-and-so.
<kees> and in debian/patches/blah.patch at the top:   http://upstream/patch/url
<jdstrand> kees: I'm all for the patch URL being in the patch, if the patch system supports that
<jdstrand> kees: and credit goes in changelog of course
<jdstrand> kees: however, I feel pretty strongly that CVE-YYYY-NNNN is in the changelog
<kees> oh yeah, for sure.
<jdstrand> ok, wasn't totally clear on that point
<jdstrand> kees: but in the case of a patchless system, then the patch url can go in the changelog, as a '-' item, correct?
<kees> I'm pondering that it should go maybe at the end of an update paragraph instead of as a separate item?  e.g. "... check argument length (CVE-2010-1234)."
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, that's what I was thinking
<persia> Having the separate subitem format may make it easier to machine-parse them (or may not).
<jdstrand> kees: it does make it more compact, but I think a seaparate subitem really makes it standout, which when the patch file doesn't have the CVE in the name (eg, many from Debian do not) is important
<kees> persia: ah, for the CVEs?  Generally just looking at the changelog and looking for "CVE-" works, especially since debian doesn't have a standard format for it.
<persia> In that case, making it easy doesn't help.
<jdstrand> kees: plus if we always do it, it is consistent no matter what patch system or patch name
<kees> jdstrand: always do it as a "-" item or as a "()" item?
<jdstrand> kees: I thin always as a separate '-' is better
<jdstrand> think
<jdstrand> kees: at the expense of compactness
<kees> jdstrand: okay, I was on the fence, I'm happy to make it a "-" item.
<jdstrand> it's kind of a like a mini-References section, plus the eye will always know to look there
<ScottK> Any chance of having a common format with Debian Security so dch -s can get into Debian and we both just use it?
<jdstrand> ScottK: that is for versioning, no? we were talking only about the changelog text
<ScottK-laptop> But dch -s gives you the template.
<jdstrand> ah. I haven't looked at dch -s in awhile
<jdstrand> (since it didn't ever work right for me :)
<jdstrand> ScottK: I can say that dch -s has been on my todo list for quite some time, but unfortunately, it is rather low...
<kees> jdstrand: http://pastebin.osuosl.org/22275 ?
<ScottK> Just a thought ...
<jdstrand> kees: yes, with the addendum that we are putting the patch url in the patch file when there is a patch system that supports it
<kees> ScottK: honestly, these formats are more or less a guideline.  I don't want to force a machine-parsable format on anyone, so I'm not sure it's needed to coordinate the format with Debian.
<kees> jdstrand: right
<ScottK> OK.
<jdstrand> kees: I think that is much more clear. I'll update the wiki
 * RainCT decides that he hates apt for not supporting redirects :P
<jdstrand> s/that/this new format/
<jdstrand> kees: and I am going to steal your template :)
<kees> jdstrand: http://pastebin.osuosl.org/22276 ?
<kees> jdstrand: okay, sweet
<jdstrand> kees: looks great
<iulian> Heya
<kees> jdstrand: we should linked to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines in the SUP for how to mark up the patches
 * jdstrand nods
<RainCT> apachelogger: hey, do you have an icon of a person suitable for revu?
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures?action=info
<jdstrand> kees: ^ please review/edit as needed
<jdstrand> kees: heh, I of course had to make one more change :)
<jdstrand> (in the patch tagging part)
<apachelogger> RainCT: what size?
<RainCT> apachelogger: like the nuke/archive/unarchive buttons
<kees> jdstrand: yeah, looks really good.  I think I'll add a note about "priority" and how it's not used in Ubuntu.  (I have Debian folks ask about that from time to time)
<RainCT> apachelogger: it's to show it on front of the usernames, linking to their revu profile
<jdstrand> kees: cool, I was thinking about that when I saw it, and then said: "oh, that is documented, people know about that" :) please do document it here since it isn't getting across in whatever other places it is :)
<apachelogger> RainCT: http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/user-identity.png
<kees> jdstrand: one sentence in parens added.  ;)
<jdstrand> \o/
<RainCT> apachelogger: that one doesn't look very good..
<apachelogger> RainCT: please make a screenshot
<RainCT> apachelogger: http://localhost/Ubuntu/revu/?updated=true
<RainCT> apachelogger: ^
<apachelogger> RainCT: localhost? ;-)
<RainCT> apachelogger: err http://rainct.homelinux.net/revu/?updated=true
 * RainCT didn't remember that links are hardcoded to localhost (in the config file)
<apachelogger> RainCT: doesn't load images
 * apachelogger assumes a misconfigured apache
<persia> RainCT, Whilst you're doing that much of a rewrite, would it be possible you could add a feature to subscribe to packages you didn't upload?
<persia> Or the hardcoding of everything to "localhost" :)
<RainCT> persia: that's already possible :)
<RainCT> persia: you've a "Subscribe" link on the details page of any upload (at the top-right)
<RainCT> persia: and the hardcoding (which is not really hardcoding, but a <base /> tag) was actually a feature :P. I guess I could change it to some dynamic host detection, though
<RainCT> apachelogger: right, that would be because of the <base /> tag too.. well, I've just decided that it doesn't look that bad after all :P
<apachelogger> ok :P
<apachelogger> RainCT: I also have a blackish one
<apachelogger> that might be better for this size
<apachelogger> sec
<apachelogger> RainCT: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot153.png
<apachelogger> RainCT: http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/user.png if you want to try it
<Guinnesss> Hi everybody. I would like to contribute to Linux, but I am not sure where to start or who to talk to. This seems to be the place. Can anybody spare a few minutes to point me in the right direction?
<__iron> hi Guinnesss
<__iron> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<Guinnesss> Hi __iron, I will go to that link now.
<directhex> Guinnesss, there are a lot of different ways to contribute to free software. what's your level of expertise - are you a programmer, or a user, or what? do you speak any foreign languages?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I got the 2 acks for FFe from motu-release for Bug #261693, and now, I've subscribed u-s-u. Is it correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261693 in tor "[FFe] tor version bump to 0.2.X" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261693
<RainCT> apachelogger: the changes (including the icon) are up now
<apachelogger> hm
<apachelogger> RainCT: I think we need a placeholder for uploaders without account
<apachelogger> looks weird if some people have an icon and some don't
<apachelogger> RainCT: btw, does the profile page have hardcoded coloring?
<apachelogger> certainly doesn't follow the CSS :P
<RainCT> apachelogger: No, only CSS, and that's a "known bug" :).  The problem is only with the brown lines in the Uploads section though, or? (I askfor the case that you have the page cached - I've changed the comments section to use blue)
<apachelogger> RainCT: or maybe just indent/stuff the icon in a seperate column
<Guinnesss> directhex: I've been reading the ubuntu wiki about contributing, so I did not see your post earlier. Anyway, I would like to contribute through programming if possible. I have a Computer Engineering Degree from the University of Pretoria, and I have reasonable experience as a programmer. I have compiled small programs in linux and have used gcc, makefiles etc. elsewhere I am currently finishing off a project where I had to generate co
<apachelogger> RainCT: ah, now the profile works :)
 * apachelogger didn't notice the brown lines until now though 
<geser> fabrice_sp: yes. Is this a sync? I've scanned the bug, but wasn't sure if it's a sync or not.
<directhex> Guinnesss, i think, given what you say your skills are, you should consider helping to improve (or bugfix) your favourite apps
<fabrice_sp> geser: yes, it's a sync from Lenny version
<directhex> Guinnesss, if you see yourself as a C coder, then your time is wasted mangling debian/watch files down here at the land of packaging
<fabrice_sp> geser: and an easy one (no Ubuntu modification needed :-) )
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: if ubuntu modification was needed then it wouldn't be a sync. :-)
<directhex> slytherin, well..... there are filthy workarounds for that.....
<slytherin> RainCT: revu looks nice now. :-)
<directhex> slytherin, those filthy workarounds often start with "ifeq ($(DISTRO),"Ubuntu")"
<RainCT> slytherin: thanks :)
<Guinnesss> Ok, where do I go about finding a bug? I've set up a launchpad account, but what should I do from there? Basically, Do I simply download the source fix the described bug and upload it?
<directhex> Guinnesss, well, the best format for fixes is a patch, prefereably a patch you send to the upstream developer - to avoid ubuntu deviating from the original
<fabrice_sp> slytherin: so sync are always easy, then! :-)  Only MOTU can perform that task?
<Guinnesss> And creating a patch? (Sorry I realize these are basic things, but I haven't found a tutorial about this yet)
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: yes, for universe/multiverse packages of course. And subscribing u-u-s was the only thing you needed to do.
<slytherin> Guinnesss: search for patching system on wiki
<Guinnesss> Thanks will do.
<fabrice_sp> slytherin: ok. Thanks!
<slytherin> slomo: do you have time to sponsor a fix to resindvd backported from upstream?
<Guinnesss> Cheers...thanks for the help
<jmichel> Anyone could help me using dpkg-builpackage? I'd like to build a library package and it completes without a glitch but the resulting .deb file is empty
<jmichel> everything builds automatically an dinstalls in /debian/tmp/usr/... but the library files are not included in the generated .deb package
<fabrice_sp> jmichel: can you paste your logfile in paste.ubuntu.com and post the link here?
<jmichel> which log file ?
<fabrice_sp> the build log file
<jmichel> I believe it does create one or do you mean the output of the console ?
<slytherin> jmichel: have you taken look at any existing library packages?
<jmichel> Sorry I mean it doesn't seem to create one
<jmichel> slytherin: well it doesn't tell me much other than the files that are inside it
<slytherin> jmichel: paste your debian/rules file on pastebin
<jmichel> pastebin.ca/1223920
<jmichel> But it is the default one created by dh_make
<jmichel> Because to install the lib I only need to ./configure, make, make install
<slytherin> jmichel: do you have any debian/install file?
<jmichel> no
<slytherin> jmichel: You will need it. It should contain a line debain/tmp/* I guess.
<jmichel> So I need to create /debian/install with only "debain/tmp/*" in it ?
<crimsun> that's a bit extreme and likely wrong
<crimsun> normally you only want the actual lib and symlink
<crimsun> e.g.:
<crimsun> debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfoo.so.2.0.5
<crimsun> debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfoo.so.2
<sebner> crimsun: flashupdate is somehow slightly b0rken :\
<crimsun> sebner: if you're referring to wmode, that's an nspluginwrapper issue that is being addressed already
<jmichel> so the file I write in debian/install will go into my deb package ? right ?
<sebner> crimsun: I'm not sure. what's up with the windowed mode?
<slytherin> jmichel: yes
<jmichel> but which one will go in the -dev ?
<crimsun> sebner: windowless applets
<slytherin> crimsun: that is why I said 'I guess' :-)
<sebner> crimsun: ah no
<sebner> crimsun: sometimes (not reproducable yet) I just see just a gray windows (youtube) but sounds working
<slytherin> jmichel: instead of a single debian/install file, you can create two files, debian/libfoo.install and debian/libfoo-dev.install
<jmichel> slytherin: ok I will try this
<crimsun> jmichel: libfoo-dev.install should have debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfoo.a and debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfoo.so as appropriate
<slytherin> crimsun: -deb package containing .so?
<slytherin> s/dev/dev
<slytherin> s/deb/dev
<crimsun> slytherin: yes
<crimsun> in most circumstances, the libfoo2.install won't ship the .so symlink
<slytherin> oh, I didn't realise you were talking about symlink
 * DktrKranz looks at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/, no bugs, everything is fixed!!! (at least until next reschedule)
<crimsun> sebner: does reconfiguring flashplugin-nonfree help?  If not, does purging flashplugin-nonfree and then reinstalling it help?
<crimsun> sebner: also, what arch?
<sebner> crimsun: let me check :) i386
<sebner> DktrKranz: \o/
<DktrKranz> sebner, it's likely a bug in rcbugs ;)
<sebner> LOL
<sebner> huhu norsetto :)
<norsetto> sebner: huhu roboseb
 * sebner runs away and cries
<geser> Hi sebner and norsetto
<sebner> aloha geser :)
<norsetto> heya geser
<DktrKranz> sebner, still a bot? Needs some oil?
<DktrKranz> I have good quality available
<sebner> O_o
<crimsun> sebner's a next-gen bot that needs no oil!
<DktrKranz> sebner 2.0, the revenge is coming
<sebner> lol
<sebner> DktrKranz: hmm, revenge = u-u-s spamming next cycle?
<DktrKranz> sebner, I'm not worried about that, just because you made me a PROMISE
<sebner> DktrKranz: GRRRRRRRRRRRRR, true. or I'll recieve revenge :\
<DktrKranz> sebner, I'll call Walter... your choice
<sebner> DktrKranz: NOOOO! not walter ... he has GAS
<jmichel> crimsun: I tried with the 2 .install files and it dowsn't change anything
<jmichel> .deb package still is empty
<crimsun> jmichel: you're not calling dh_install from debian/rules.  Note that it's commented out.
<NCommander> hey DktrKranz
<DktrKranz> hey NCommander
<jmichel> I'm using the default rules... I didn't change anything.  I should enable this line ?
<NCommander> DktrKranz, so how goes those gnat SRUs :-)
<crimsun> jmichel: yes.
<DktrKranz> NCommander, TBH never had the time to look at them,
<NCommander> DktrKranz, ....
<jmichel> crimsun: It seems to be working now... but do you have an idea how come it was not doing this by default
<crimsun> jmichel: dh_make only generates templates.  It's the responsibility of the packager to edit debian/* as necessary.
<jmichel> crimsun: I see... and thx for your help
<crimsun> jmichel: yw, glad it's working.
<crimsun> nxvl: is the priority 20 intentional for terminator's x-terminal-emulator alternative (intrepid, synced from Debian unstable)?  It all but negates having it installed, because gnome-terminal's priority is 40.
<nxvl> nope
<nxvl> i will change it
<crimsun> nxvl: thanks
<nxvl> then 41 will we ok?
<crimsun> nxvl: sure.  Whatever it takes to have my keybinding working again :-)
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> crimsun: updated
<nxvl> actually uploaded
<nxvl> :D
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun> nxvl: rockin'
<crimsun> morn' ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going, crimsun ?
<nxvl> ugh
<nxvl> last update completely crashed my grapical environment
<nxvl> S:
<crimsun> ajmitch: not bad, yourself?
<ajmitch> alright, been rather busy with work but that may be settling down
<crimsun> cool
<ajmitch> may even try & get some fixing done in intrepid before release
<crimsun> :-)
<ajmitch> once I find something simple to tackle :)
<geser> ajmitch: something like bug 279345 in libgnomecups?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279345 in libnet-cups-perl "[intrepid] some packages still depend on dummy package libcupsys2" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279345
<ajmitch> hm, that could be simple enough
<ajmitch> are they mostly just rebuilds, or are there other dependencies involved?
<geser> mostly just rebuilds, perhaps also changing libcupsys2-dev to libcups2-dev
<ajmitch> ok
<geser> btw. fox1.4 and fox1.6 are nearly done (waiting on pbuilder to finish)
<ajmitch> and those were the two I'd just fetched & was modifying
<nxvl> is there any way to make ls list the whole path?
 * ajmitch will grab rezound then
 * ajmitch wonders if it's safe to upload rezound yet
<geser> ajmitch: why shouldn't it be safe yet?
<ajmitch> build-deps on fox1.4
<geser> ah
<geser> both fox1.4 and fox1.6 are uploaded now
<ajmitch> I can wait for a little bit for them to properly hit the archive
<directhex> yay for responsive upstreams
<directhex> 4 days later, i no longer need to +dfsg my source package
<ajmitch> that's a good start
<ajmitch> most upstreams can be fairly good like that
<directhex> yeah, but this is an upstream you've been quite... sarcastic... about
<directhex> they've recently made a massive push towards downstream involvement, which i can only applaud
 * norsetto applauds
<directhex> probably something to do with them axing support for 19/20 of their official build targets
<ajmitch> directhex: that I've been sarcastic about?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-10
<TheMuso> c/
<superm1> StevenK, i'm not convinced that you uploaded everything that you had done test builds for for bug 276343
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276343 in ussp-push "Rebuild for libbluetooth2 -> libbluetooth3 transition" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276343
<superm1> i was just randomly looking at anyremote and saw it doesn't have one done
<james_w> thanks Riddell
<StevenK> superm1: I uploaded everything that was listed I had uploaded in the PPA
<superm1> StevenK, hum then.
<StevenK> However, I can see no anyremote upload
<StevenK> Hm. Someone removed anyremote from the PPA
<StevenK> superm1: Uploading anyremote now. Yes, I put the bug number in
<superm1> StevenK, okay good thx.
<superm1> StevenK, i've not gone through and checked the others yet, so maybe there are more like that too. i'm not sure
 * ajmitch was going to upload rezound for the libcupsys2 stuff, but it just decided to FTBFS instead
<StevenK> superm1: I thought I did everything that had my name next to it on the PPA, but if I've missed more, please poke me
<superm1> StevenK, okay i'll take a look later today or tomorrow
<superm1> StevenK, although i'd expect the results of apt-cache rdepends libbluetooth2 are accurate
<superm1> StevenK, meaning those are ones that are missing yet
<StevenK> superm1: Oh, right. It should show up in NBS too
 * StevenK pokes
<jdong> *cry*
<jdong> "I've build libgegl-0.0-dev version  0.0.18-1, libbabl-0.0-0-dev version  0.0.22-1, webkit  1.0.1-2 (that provides libwebkit-dev) and finally gimp (2.6.0-1ubuntu1) without any problem! The library haven't reverse dependencies (cause they aren't in Hardy repos),
<jdong> "
<jdong> rmadison begs to differ on package 3 of 3
<jdong> I hate it when people tell me things that are 66.67% true
<james_w> jdong: hi, have you seen bug 215784?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 215784 in vlc "VLC does not open files with Plus-signs in name" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215784
<jdong> james_w: is this a hardy bug?
<james_w> jdong: looks like it
<james_w> I hadn't noticed
<jdong> james_w: I don't think 0.9.4 has this bug. Ask the users to confirm that, but at the same time IMO this is SRU worthy and I'd approve the given patch once it is adapted to the correct patchsys and targeted against hardy-proposed
<james_w> jdong: would you put that in the bug please?
<jdong> sure
<lfaraone> Hey, are FLOSS apps that use non-comm-only APIs OK in univ?
<RAOF> non-comm-only APIs?
<jdong> I'm guessing that means something like Google API or some other web based service?
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> is someone able to comment on revu?
<goshawk> i receive an error
<goshawk> MOD_PYTHON ERROR
<ajmitch> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<ajmitch> paste it in there ^^ so we can look at it
<goshawk> ok
<ajmitch> it's probably something known already
<goshawk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55839/
<ajmitch> thanks
 * ajmitch did see this error in a bug yesterday, at least
<ajmitch> you were trying to add a comment to an upload there?
<goshawk> yep
<ajmitch> which package?
<goshawk> wait
<goshawk> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss
<goshawk> i tried again
<goshawk> no way
<goshawk> time to go for me
<goshawk> see you
<ajmitch> ok
 * ajmitch will bug the person who added this change
<StevenK> superm1: Right, looks like bluemon, bluetooth-alsa, btscanner, libopensync-plugin-irmc, scmxx, transfermii are my responsibility and haven't been uploaded.
<StevenK> superm1: libpam-blue failed to build and NCommander fixed it, so one of us should probably sponsor him
<up_the_irons> i looks like this package:
<up_the_irons> garry@nf01vm:~$ apt-cache search portmap
<up_the_irons> portmap - The RPC portmapper
<up_the_irons> (on Hardy)
<up_the_irons> doesn't install a portmapper that uses tcpwrappers (hosts.allow/deny)
<up_the_irons> is there an alternative package i should use?
<up_the_irons> according to this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNFSHowTo
<up_the_irons> tcpwrappers should work
<up_the_irons> but it don't:
<up_the_irons> garry@nf01vm:~$ strings /sbin/portmap |grep hosts
<up_the_irons> hosts_ctl
<up_the_irons> garry@nf01vm:~$
<StevenK> up_the_irons: That's not cool, don't paste that much
<up_the_irons> StevenK: sorry
<lfaraone> RAOF: non-commercial-use-only
<StevenK> up_the_irons: Portmap should be using tcpwrappers
<RAOF> lfaraone: What I was more referring to was "APIs"?
<RAOF> lfaraone: Presumably you mean web services, yes?
<lfaraone> RAOF: flickr's api.
<lfaraone> RAOF: yeah.
 * wgrant bashes his head into the wall.
<wgrant> FORUM USERS ARE SO STUPID.
<up_the_irons> StevenK: weird, i'll keep looking
<up_the_irons> StevenK: i have "ALL: ALL" in my hosts.deny and i can still do 'rpcinfo -p'
<Hobbsee> wgrant: just stop looking, and hope they go away.  :P
<StevenK> up_the_irons: On the same host?
<ajmitch> wgrant: lucky chap
<up_the_irons> StevenK: yeah
<StevenK> up_the_irons: Doing RPC calls on the same host is pointless
<up_the_irons> StevenK: i know, it's just to test if tcpwrappers is working
<StevenK> The R stands for Remote :-P
<up_the_irons> StevenK: as documented by http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/ar01s06.html
<StevenK> up_the_irons: Doing it locally bypasses tcpwrappers
<up_the_irons> StevenK: ok
<StevenK> One of the reasons testing RPC stuff sucks so hard
<up_the_irons> StevenK: well, no matter, i just tried it from a different host.  Same story (it works)
<up_the_irons> i'm just going to apt-get source
<up_the_irons> and recompile it w/ wrappers
<StevenK> up_the_irons: What about hosts.allow ?
<up_the_irons> StevenK: what about it?
<StevenK> up_the_irons: If you also have ALL: ALL there ...
<up_the_irons> StevenK: that would, presumably, allow all services, so I don't know how i'd test that (I already can rpcinfo the host from anywhere)
<up_the_irons> StevenK: oh, i think i know
<up_the_irons> StevenK: the nfs howto is old and the 'hosts.allow/deny' strings wouldn't appear in /sbin/portmap anymore, but in libwrap
<up_the_irons> which it indeed does
<up_the_irons> i'm worrying about nothing
<IntuitiveNipple> When using "apt-get build-dep <src-pkg>" is there a way to 'pin' the release as it does with binaries (i.e. using "-t hardy") ?
<StevenK> If you do it manually
<IntuitiveNipple> how so? I've tried "-t hardy" and <pkg>=<version> and neither works. I was trying to find an easy way to avoid having to disable the intrepid deb-src for apt
<didrocks> morning
<didrocks> james_w: here?
<wgrant> RAOF: Are you still having the BadDevice issue with xinput on your Synaptics laptop?
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<didrocks> morgs: dholbach
<didrocks> morning (sorry morgs ;))
<dholbach> hi didrocks, hi morgs
<didrocks> dholbach: regarding your message about bugs with "having patchs" triaging : is it possible to unmark those which  have not real patches (ie screenshots only or debug information)?
<dholbach> didrocks: yes, there's a "(edit)" link next to them
<didrocks> dholbach: you're right, I have only used it to delete a deprecated patch, not for umark it :)
<didrocks> dholbach: ok, I will try to give a shot to some bugs for that purpose :)
<dholbach> rock and roll!
<didrocks> :)
<dholbach> didrocks: let's see what people think about the idea
<dholbach> it'd be nice to get those 2006 bugs down to a smaller number
<didrocks> for sure...
<didrocks> dholbach: thx for the upload. It just remains the same kind of thing for nis package bug #259138 and #254262 with an extra FTBFS correction :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259138 in nis "FTBFS in intrepid for nis 3.17-14" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254262 in nis "Still uses multiuser argument to update-rc.d" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254262
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> if someone has free time, can please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss ?
<persia> goshawk, Did Baby ever contact you?  I know she was interested in that as part of a general D effort.
<goshawk> no
<goshawk> never
<goshawk> Baby
<goshawk> i'll for her
<goshawk> :D
<goshawk> thx
<persia> goshawk, No problem.  There's also some talk about starting a D team in Debian, although I don't know if it has come to fruition, which may interest you.
<goshawk> yep
<goshawk> persia: i packaged also libtango
<goshawk> the standard the facto library
<goshawk> but i'm waiting for dsss to be accepted
<goshawk> since it uses that building system
<goshawk> so... maybe they are going to do the same work
<goshawk> which is already done
<persia> goshawk, That's what I fear, which is part of why I point you at them : I'd think they'd want to work with you and get everything in both Debian and Ubuntu.
<goshawk> persia: where can i get infos about this group?
<goshawk> persia: it's perfect for me to work for both of them :D
<persia> Not sure exactly.  I've only heard rumors.  I'll see if I can find any place they congregate.
<goshawk> i also found a way to integrate dsss build system with cdbs... :D
<persia> Cool!
<goshawk> ;)
<goshawk> persia: do you want my mail so if you talk with someone of this group
<goshawk> you can give ti to them?
<persia> goshawk, It's on REVU :)
<goshawk> ah yep :D
<goshawk> hihi
<persia> I know I've given them your address before.  Now I'm looking for somewhere to point you in hopes that the other direction works better.
<goshawk> btw i've a nickname now... Baby :D be sure that i'll contact her...
<goshawk> thanks for your help
<goshawk> since things are going in this direction i'l put libtango in revu too
<goshawk> so they can watch at it
<goshawk> too
<james_w> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hi james_w, when removing the patch for rebasing on swfdec0.7 instead of swfdec0.6, I wanted to unsuscribed the sponsor list, but I think that I can't as I am not a member of team, that's it? (to remind you, it was on bug #279207)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279207 in swfdec0.6 "Please sponsor swfdec-gnome 2.24.0 and swfdec 0.8 to intrepid" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279207
<james_w> yeah, you need to be a member to do it
<didrocks> james_w: ok, so, sorry that I can't warn you before. This evening, I will have the time to rebase it on swfdec0.7 and both packages will be ready :)
<james_w> no problem
<james_w> asac: hi, do you use bzr for nm-openvpm and -vpnc?
<morgs> james_w: thanks for your help with Sugar! Almost everything has hit the archive
<james_w> morgs: hey, nice work.
<james_w> morgs: I think some packages will need a helping hand, got a list of what's waiting?
<morgs> james_w: sugar-toolkit (binpackage python-sugar-toolkit), sugar-calculate-activity, sugar-web-activity, sugar-pippy-activity, sugar-journal-activity
<morgs> james_w: also sugar-sharedstate (binpackage sugar-sharedstate-classes), and sugar-hulahop (binpackage python-hulahop)
<james_w> morgs: thanks, do you know what's wrong with them?
<morgs> james_w: no, I saw fix_released on the tickets, but I don't see them if I apt-get update.
<james_w> ah, sugar-toolkit is built
<morgs> james_w: perhaps my mirror is lagging, let me check that
<morgs> yeah, I see the correct versions in LP
<james_w> yeah, they all seem to be built
<james_w> morgs: can you file a removal request for the old hulahop package please?
<morgs> james_w: sure. (how?)
<james_w> morgs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removals
<morgs> thanks
<james_w> morgs: it goes for sponsorship as normal
<morgs> OK
<james_w> morgs: bug 277798
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277798 in sugar-base "Please sync sugar-base 0.82.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/277798
<Laney> Erm, how can I recover from a version numbering faux-pas in my PPA?
<wgrant> Laney: You generally cannot.
<Laney> damn
<Laney> I don't want to break PPA -> official archive updates
<Laney> I guess I can do 2.1.0pre3+really2.1.0 and then get it right when 2.1.1 comes out
<persia> Laney, For safety, consider A.B.C~ppaD-EubuntuF~ppaG for PPA uploads.
<Laney> persia: I've appended ~hardy1~ppa0 to what would be the Ubuntu version
<Laney> (to sort below backports)
<Laney> Do you think that's good enough?
<Hobbsee> Laney: yes, that works
<persia> Laney, if you ~ the upstream version, you can guarantee upgrade to anything, regardless of what happens after -
<morgs> james_w: bug 281221
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281221 in hulahop "Remove hulahop from intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281221
<james_w> thanks morgs
<james_w> asac: mind if I upload bug 275608?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275608 in network-manager-openvpn "nm-openvpn "Passwords with Certificate (TLS)" panel has wrong labels and inverts passwords" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275608
<asac> james_w: if its just extracted from upstream svn then its not needed
<asac> james_w: well lets say it different. this patch is not needed
<asac> james_w: we should produce a new orig.tar.gz from the current tree in the archive
<asac> james_w: feel free to do that ;)
<james_w> asac: please state that in the bug them
<asac> james_w: at best for all three vpn daemons
<james_w> er, then
<asac> done
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> Koon: would you be willing to do that?
<Koon> james_w: I might tackle it if I find the time. I agree that syncing with current HEAD will solve that one. Just wasn't sure that we would do it at that point in the release cycle.
<james_w> Koon: no, neither was I.
<sylvaing> huats: hi
<huats> hello mister sylvaing !
<allee> FYI: siretart, \sh: simple FAI merge does not PXE boot: http://paste.debian.net/18925/ There are some pkgs missing, but in several paths there is a /root/.. prefixed that shoud not be there :( I'll be on #fai to find out how to fix it
<jmichel> crimsun: Are still there ?
<jmichel> crimsun: yesterday my lib built ok but now I'm packaging an app that uses that lib and I get:
<azeem> jmichel: no need to ask somebody specific, other people might be able to help as well
<jmichel> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: ne dependency information found for
<jmichel> azeem: I know it is only because I thought crimsun would remember the case
<jmichel> but maybe someone else would have an idia?
<azeem> you didn't paste the whole error yet
<azeem> but it looks pretty clear, your library packages lacks shlibs info
<jmichel> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: ne dependency information found for /usr/lib/libfec.so.0
<jmichel> azeem: yes exactly my question was where can I put this info?
<azeem> do you run dh_makeshlibs in debian/rules?
<jmichel> no this line is commented
<azeem> that'd be it
<jmichel> ok I'll try this
<azeem> jmichel: in your library packages' debian/rules, I mean
<jmichel> yes I understood what you meant
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jmichel> azeem: After rebuilding I'm getting the same error
<jmichel> azeem: and I think I made a mistake when copying the error maessage earlier:
<jmichel> dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libfec.so.0
<azeem> jmichel: what is the library package name?
<jmichel> libfec_3.0.2_i386.deb
<jmichel> this is a package that I created myself earlier and that I installed on my machine
<azeem> btw, that's not correct according to library packaging policy
<azeem> jmichel: did you install the new package you built after you uncommented dh_makeshlibs?
<jmichel> no
<azeem> then that change will not have effect on packages you build against it
<emgent> evening
<persia> Well, it will affect packages built if you put it in a common repo, and then have pbuilder or sbuild build against that repo, even if not installed locally.
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<jmichel> azeem: I think I'm somewhat mixed up: I have libfec which is a library that I built and installed earlier... now I want to build an application using this lib and I get the error mentionned earlier
<jmichel> how can it do a difference if I install my lib before or after doing the change in the application?
<azeem> 15:32 < azeem> jmichel: in your library packages' debian/rules, I mean
<jmichel> ok... when I said "[09:35] <jmichel> yes I understood what you meant" I was not right :)
<azeem> jmichel: in any case, your library is packaged correctly, you should review the library packaging policy
<jmichel> I'll restart everything and come back after... thanks for the help
<jmichel> and where would be that policy?
<persia> The policy is hard to read.  The library packaging guide is easier, and if you follow those guidelines you'll generally be policy compliant.  See http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> is someone has free time
<goshawk> can review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss please?
<persia> I really think you'll do better with pkg-d-devel :)
<luisbg_> ScottK, ping :)
<ScottK> Pong
<ScottK> Good timing.  I just sat down at the computer about 3 minutes ago.
<ScottK> luisbg_: ^^?
<luisbg_> ScottK, nice
<luisbg_> I have a topic I want to bring up to the Release Meeting
<luisbg_> its about linux -rt kernel
<luisbg_> very important for Ubuntu Studio
<luisbg_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-rt/+bug/281276
<ScottK> OK.  I think you should show up.  I think it's been discussed extensively already.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281276 in linux-rt "Upgrade linux-rt to 2.6.27" [Undecided,New]
<luisbg_> ScottK, I will shop up but since the item isnt in the agenda
<ScottK> Whoever the right rep for ubuntu-studio is should come to the meeting.
<luisbg_> I shouldn't bring it up without the aid of somebody in the MOTU Release Team
<ScottK> I'd also warn slangasek that you want to discuss it.
<luisbg_> ScottK, ok
<ScottK> I suppose, but I don't have an opinion on it as I neither have to build the kernel nor need it to work.
<luisbg_> will talk to slangasek
<luisbg_> slangasek, ping?
 * jdong wonders where all his input devices went after this morning's dist-upgrade
<luisbg_> jdong, including the keyboard? :P
<jdong> yes
<jdong> X lost them all
<jdong> and Xorg.log is so cute in telling me that there's no input devices.
<elkbuntu> which of course you can read by typ...oh, right.
<jdong> :D
<jdong> oh crap did I agree to removing xserver-xorg-*-input?
<jdong> sigh.
<persia> heh
<jdong> yeah my mistake
<luisbg_> lol
<jdong> looks like dist-upgrade tries too hard to bring in gnome-settings-daemons
<jdong> which conflicts libxi
<jdong> grumble.
<jdong> back I go
<elkbuntu> jdong, who needs ultabreaksit when we have you?
<jdong> there we go!
<jdong> nothing a bit of dpkg editing didn't fix.
<goshawk> persia: i've already written on their ML :D
<persia> goshawk, I saw, and nobody responded yet.  I chatted with Baby earlier, and she was interested, so I'm guessing you'll hear something this weekend.
<goshawk> Baby... i'm still not able to reach her :D
<persia> I suspect you want to try OFTC :)
<luisbg_> ScottK, slangasek never pinged me back :(
<ScottK> He's not in the release meeting either it seems.
<ScottK> Just show up.
<luisbg_> I just joined :)
<luisbg_> will you call me when the universe section starts/ends?
<luisbg_> please
 * ScottK is multi-tasking, so no promises, but I'll try to remember
<luisbg_> ScottK, I am also, thats why I ask :P
<ScottK> Of course
<ScottK> luisbg_: Kernel team is up now.  This is probably the best time.
<luisbg_> yes
<luisbg_> I will interrupt
<Koon> james_w: done update for network-manager-openvpn on bug 275608
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275608 in network-manager-openvpn "nm-openvpn "Passwords with Certificate (TLS)" panel has wrong labels and inverts passwords" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275608
<james_w> Koon: thanks. asac, could you take a look please?
<Koon> james_w, asac: the only trick is the direct nm-openvpn-service.name.in patch in diff.gz, I reported it on the new version as is.
<luisbg_> ScottK, thanks!
<ScottK> No problem.
<asac> james_w: ok. commented. you i asked for the other two plugins too
<asomething> persia: hi, are you around?
<persia> asomething, Usually, but much of the time someone else can also answer a question :)
<asomething> hey, I'm looking to fix bug #210456 in gimageview and you were the last uploader. a merge with debian would fix this (the debian upload is bug fix only)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 210456 in gimageview "gimv crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_tree_model_get_valist()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210456
<asomething> the only ubuntu change was due to bug #159338, a xine-lib transition in hardy, adding "libxine1-x | libxine1 (<< 1.1.8-2)" to Depends. I'm wondering why ${shlibs:Depends} isn't enough? can this be droped now and just sync?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 159338 in oxine "Re: Heads-up: small xine-lib transition in hardy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159338
<csilk> Is it standard to make sure desktop/menu shortcuts work in xubuntu kubuntu as well as ubuntu(gnome) when packaging software that's been requested in ubuntu(gnome)?
<csilk> *xubuntu and kubuntu
<persia> asomething, Check the Debian packaging : if it's done the libxine transition (which is likely at this point), it can be dropped.
<persia> I don't actually remember that package, so probably updated it completely accidentally trying to clear the transition.
<asomething> in debian the depends on shlibs picks up libxine1 (>= 1.1.8). I guess I was mostly wondering why the depends needed to be added at and not just do a rebuild.
<persia> asomething, The bug should explain it.  I think it was something about allowing different UIs.  If the bug doesn't give you enough information, you might ask siretart.
<asomething> persia: thanks
<slytherin> geser: there?
<geser> slytherin: yep
<slytherin> geser: who other than slomo is responsible for gstreamer packages?
<slytherin> specifically the ones in universe
<geser> I don't know
<slytherin> geser: Can you please sponsor the patch then. It will be great if you can do some testing first. The results of tests done by other users are not very consistent. Some DVD's play while some don't, but it is better than not being able to play anything at all.
<DoYouKnow> I think it would be cool if CIAO 4.0 were included in Ubuntu. Granted, it's a research tool for analyzing data from the Chandra X-Ray Telescope, but I think that with some guidance it could be really useful for doing research-class astronomy at home in front of the computer.
<slytherin> DoYouKnow: file a bug
<slomo> slytherin: write me a mail about the issue and i'll care for it tomorrow
<slomo> slytherin: slomo@debian.org ;)
<DoYouKnow> ok
<slytherin> slomo: Ok.
<slytherin> Thanks in advance.
<Laney> superm1: Do you know/care about these messages when upgrading bluez? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/56076/
<persia> Laney, known, unimportant.
<Laney> persia: Right, fine. As long as you're aware
<persia> Laney, More verbosely, to make that go away would break support for users who need the devices created (non-udev users), and it's just terminal noise for people with udev.
<persia> I suppose it could be redirected to /dev/null or something, but I'm not sure that's best.
<superm1> persia, yeah i've been debating doing that 1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null
<superm1> persia, particularly since udev is part of ubuntu-minimal
<Laney> Can't you detect the situations where it's needed and only do it then?
<persia> Laney, That's an interesting idea.  Only create the device nodes if udev is *not* active.
<persia> superm1, What do you think?
<geser> slytherin: I probably won't have the time for the testing before next week, so it would be better if you can find an other sponsor
<slytherin> geser: slomo is going to take care. :-)
<geser> good
<superm1> persia, well I think that would have an equivalent result of what we see now
<superm1> persia, that these device nodes aren't made when udev is active
<superm1> persia, how is the best way to query if udev is active though?
<persia> see if "udev" is mounted maybe?
<persia> I thought there used to be a /dev/.udev, but I don't see it now.
<superm1> persia, well actually something is a bit odd here.  why is /dev/.static read only?
<superm1> it should have been able to put stuff in there
<superm1> udev is mounted on /dev type tmpfs, rw
<persia> Yeah, which means "udev" is just a convenience label, and not safe to check.
<superm1> persia, so /dev/blah can be touched, so can /dev/.static/blah
<superm1> just not /dev/.static/dev/blah
<superm1> something's fishy here
<persia> superm1, Maybe some sort of odd bind-mounting is going on?  I'd suggest asking Keybuk
<superm1> persia, i'm actually all for just dropping the call to MAKEDEV anyway though
<superm1> because it is supposed to make rfcommX devices, which is pointless
<superm1> you get one created by the init script if you need it already
<persia> superm1, And the init script is run at install time, right?  In that case, yeah, drop it.
<superm1> yeah
<superm1> persia, and this is a good excuse while i'm rebuilding to test the supposedly better headset support in 4.13 from today's release :)
<persia> I'm excited about that : the one thing I couldn't get to do more than pair was my handset, and I'm curious if it works as a bonus.
<persia> I don't expect that many users have a handset, so I'm not worried if it doesn't.
<Laney> Is 3G internet over bluetooth in Intrepid at a Just Working state yet?
<Laney> Or at least easily achieveble
<superm1> Laney, it's achievable
<superm1> by the exact interface i was just referring to, rfcomm
<superm1> if you modify /etc/bluetooth/rfcomm.conf
<superm1> and put in the appropriate information for the DUN service on your device (queried via sdptool)
<Laney> superm1: That's cool. Is there a wiki page or other guide?
<superm1> then use /dev/rfcomm0 as your modem, and it will work
<superm1> Laney, there's wiki pages discussing it yeah
<Laney> I just got a new N96 and am considering buying a USB dongle to be able to internet on the go
<persia> Having it just work and integrated as an option in NM is probably a 9.04 or 9.10 thing, depending on how many people test and hack at it.
 * Laney nods
<Laney> I'll do whatever I can
<superm1> persia, it was supposed to be in NM 0.7, but slipped
<superm1> it can all be done via dbus automagic stuff though
<persia> superm1, Right, part of it was that bluetooth didn't work, and part of it was the lack of people testing.
<persia> *Should* be 9.04, but I'm not going to promise anything, as I'm not likely to do it, and I haven't seen the approved list of Jaunty specs yet.
<slytherin> superm1: any word form crevette about the nautilus-sendto issue?
<superm1> slytherin, not that i've heard
<superm1> slytherin, any update on the GTK tooltips?
<slytherin> superm1: Nothing. Didn't find time. Will do surely tomorrow.
<persia> nhandler_, Any ideas on nautilus-sendto?
<persia> Could someone help me with Python?  If I call "a = b == c" wll that assign 'a' a boolean value, or check if the result of "a = b" matches 'c'?
<james_w> persia: it will assign a boolean
<persia> james_w, Excellent : that's what I intended.  Thank you.
<ScottK> persia: = is assignement and == is a comparison, so as james_w says ...
 * persia appreciates that operator precedence is largely language-independent
<ScottK> I'll confess I tried it to make sure.  Sometimes Python's booleans approach math differently than I would.
<persia> heh.
<persia> In an amusing twist, I'm actually writing Python code for KDE right now.  Certainly not my native habitat.
<emh> persia: I would use a = (b == c) for clarity.
<persia> emh, Does that change anything, or just for readability?  There's very limited use of parenthesis in the code I'm touching, and I'd prefer to follow style.
<emh> persia: Just for readability.
<persia> I'll look then : if I can find anything similar, I'll add the parens.  Thanks for the hint.
<slytherin> persia: do you know what is default jdk for sparc?
<persia> slytherin, Not offhand.  Have you looked at the default-jdk package for sparc?
<slytherin> no checking
<slytherin> but where do I check it?
<persia> Let's check together :)
<persia> First, visit http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/j/java-common/ and grab the sparc deb
<slytherin> Ok. I thought you had better idea. :-)
<kees> ScottK: I'd like to get (sort of?) a feature-freeze exception for ubuntu-dev-tools.  0.46 has several bug fixes but technically contains a new utility as well.  I figure the regression potental is very low as result, and I'd really like to get the bug fixes in.
<slytherin> persia: it says openjdk
<persia> Yep, so it's openjdk-7-jdk
<persia> s/7/6/
<kees> ScottK: er, nevermind, looks like mdz didn't add the program to bzr...
<slytherin> yes. So that means if change build-dep of some package to default-jdk and build on i386, it is likely to be built on sparc as well
<persia> Should do.  No promises for powerpc, ia64, or hppa.
<persia> I think cacao works fairly well for powerpc, but ia64 and hppa just don't have much support.
<slytherin> not worried. I am already too late getting the custom power adapter made for my ibook but I hope I will be able to squash some powerpc specific FTBFS in 3rd week of the month.
<slytherin> on hppa I don't think there is any java compiler
<persia> Not even gcj?
<kees> ScottK: er, rather he got the name wrong.  wheee
<slytherin> persia: Last time I checked it wasn't there. only -base package was built. But that was more than a month ago
<persia> Oh.  Probably FTBFS and needs careful build sequencing or something.
<superm1> for a package that is regularly synced from release to release, that we just need to make a small change too debian/control for intrepid, what version number should it be bumped to so that it's still automatically synced come jaunty DIF?
<superm1> *too=to
<kees> slangasek: as a member of ubuntu-release, can you approve an upload of 0.46 of ubuntu-dev-tools?  it technically needs a FFe, but I don't think it's a problem since the only feature is an isolated script.
<slytherin> superm1: doesn't matter how small is change, if it changed in ubuntu it won't be synced automatically
<superm1> slytherin, I thought normally appending buildX would allow these types of things come next release?
<superm1> perhaps i was mistaken then
<slytherin> superm1: you might want to take second opinion about buiildX
<persia> superm1, How sure are you that autosync won't break anything?
<superm1> persia, absolutely positive.
<slangasek> kees: if you don't think it should require a freeze exception, then don't ask for my approval; if you ask for my approval, I'll insist on looking at it first :)
<persia> superm1 What sort of change is required now that won't be required later?
<superm1> persia, the change is already in the new upstream version, but i dont see a need for that new version
<superm1> persia, it's just a typographical change in debian/control
<slytherin> does anyone know why cups-pdf has moved to universe?
<persia> Oh, so you're backporting a fix from Debian.  Yeah: those are tricky.  I just use XubuntuY for clarity, and file a sync request when the archive opens, but XbuildY would work (but would annoy people because it's not right).
<superm1> persia, well I'm almost apt to think XbuildY would be more reliable to ensure that it didn't get forgotten
<persia> superm1, The problem is that XbuildY is incorrect, and the systems that check XbuildY packages for changes outside debian/changelog would flag it, and someone might have to take the time to look.
<superm1> persia, ah i see.  okay
<persia> I think it's better to flag it on MoM than there.  It will even have your name on it to find it easily :)
<persia> I'm not sure if anyone is running such a checker for intrepid, but I know they've been run before, and like to avoid such issues :)
<slytherin> persia: where can I find log of promotions/demotions for intrepid i.e. main->universe and vice-versa?
<persia> slytherin, I don't know of such a list.  You can probably convince quinn-diff to tell you packages moved since hardy.
<slytherin> persia: I know of a package moved form main->universe and I am looking for reason
 * slytherin searches through bugs
<persia> Oh, there's usually no explicit reason, except that nothing in main depended, recommends, or build-depended on it and someone noticed.
<superm1> slytherin, you are probably best asking tkamppeter
<persia> About half the time there's not even a bug.
<superm1> slytherin, he's the one who has looked after it for a while
<james_w> I need some advice, I have some C++ code where loader.cpp includes a.h and b.h, a.h includes something which defines FOO to 1, and then b.h includes something which uses FOO in an enum, not intending it to be the same FOO.
<james_w> what's the best way to protect the thing included by b.h from having FOO #defined?
<slytherin> persia: Right, cups only suggests cups-pdf. Now I have to look into changelog if it was demoted form recommends.
<slytherin> persia: this is funny, cups-pdf was never recommends of cups. :-)
<slytherin> On a second thought I think it is ok, the print dialog has ability to print to PS or PDF file even without cups-pdf.
<persia> james_w, In what scope are you concerned?  If you're mostly worried about loader.cpp, just including a.h after b.h will overwrite the b.h definition.
<james_w> that works, thanks
<james_w> though it's not really overwriting, it's just stopping the pre-processor stomping on the C++ tokens
<persia> No, it's really redefining it.
<stefanlsd> can i just delete config.guess and config.sub?  or should debhelper be doing that during the clean rule?
<persia> You'll notice that lots of #define directives are wrapped in #ifndef to protect against this, but for code as messy as hat you've described, I was sure it wouldn't be the case :)
<ScottK> kees: I don't think native pacakges like u-d-t need FFe, but that's just me.
<kees> ScottK: okay, cool
<ScottK> kees: So as long as you don't break stuff, I don't think anyone will complain.
<ScottK> kees: Please don't break stuff.
<kees> ScottK: heheh.
<kees> ScottK: afaict, it doesn't, and fixes a bug I just ran into (submittodebian had "hardy" in the usertags)
<directhex> NCommander, GFDL *is* non-free! netcraft confirms it!
<NCommander> directhex, generally speaking, the GFDL is non-free with invarient sections, BUT every software has non-varient sections (Copyright notices)
 * slytherin wonders why seahorse has suddenly stopped accepting passphrase for his gpg key
<NCommander> Even stuff in the public domain need to say that
<NCommander> slytherin, you kicked us out of -devel with our discussion ;-)
<NCommander> (well, ok, we went off topic but :-P!)
<ScottK> directhex: GFDL with invariant sections is non-free.
<directhex> seahorse is punishing you. i blame SigBlk.
 * NCommander notes that he feels the AGPL is non-free
 * ScottK totally agrees.
<directhex> NCommander, Expat fan?
<NCommander> It, to me, fails the desert island test
<NCommander> directhex, I use the MIT license, yes.
<directhex> try Ms-PL! it's fruity and dfsg-free ;)
<NCommander> MSPL is just a directive of the MIT license ;-)
<ScottK> Well one of the prime features for GPL is that it does not impose use restrictions, only distribution restrictions.  AGPL breaks that rather badly.
 * directhex makes ScottK agree to a EULA
 * slytherin gets back to fixing FTBFS in a package inherited from Debian and written in truly cross platform language.
 * ScottK folds the EULA into a shart pointy paper airplane and throws it at directhex's left eye.
 * directhex wears glasses \o/
<directhex> slytherin, tcl? \o/
<slytherin> directhex: java :-P
<NCommander> slytherin, which language?
 * directhex runs slytherin's package through ikvm.net
 * NCommander should package REVU for multiverse
<persia> NCommander, Why multiverse?
<slytherin> NCommander: why, is revu not Free?
<NCommander> Dependency on Launchpad
<directhex> how does it communicate with LP?
<NCommander> OpenID and GPG key exchanges via OpenID protocol, and RDF scalping w/ gpg keyserver magic
<slytherin> NCommander: So if someone wrote a Free alternative to launchpad, revu will work with it just fine right?
<NCommander> Techinically, all you need is an openid server, and then a free way to get GPG keys to be autodownloaded
<NCommander> but yes, REVU is non-free due to its LP dependnecy
<directhex> RDF you say? oh deary me :| http://www.google.com/patents?q=Resource+Description+Framework&btnG=Search+Patents
<directhex> also http://www.google.com/patents?q=openid&btnG=Search+Patents
<persia> Right.  Enough with the patents and non-freeness, or I'll start handing out packages needing work.
<NCommander> persia, what packages?
<persia> NCommander, Well there are heaps.  compiz-fusion-plugins-extras is the one I'm procrastinating looking at right now, if you want one.
<NCommander> I don't use compiz nor does my HW support it
<persia> Yeah, me either.  That's why I'm procrastinating :)  I'll go get a useful package then.
<james_w> NCommander: there's a request to sync firebird where the person doing it would like some help to make it compile on Ubuntu if you are looking for something to do
<persia> On the theme of questionably free, here's a list of packages in universe with dependencies in multiverse or restricted: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=intrepid&list=withinuniverse&arch=ANY
<james_w> bug 271919
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271919 in firebird2.1 "Sync firebird2.1 2.1.1.17910-release.ds1-1from debian experimental" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271919
<NCommander> Isn't it by definition if universe depends on multiverse, it should FTBFS due to build-deps?
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> not build-dep
<persia> That's Build-Depends.  These packages just don't install within the ogre model.
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> Hence the "not build-dep"
<NCommander> In Debian, that would fall into contrib, right?
<persia> NCommander, Another I'd love to see is ctsim ported to some newer version of WX and not segfault on start afterwards.
<persia> Right.  multiverse is contrib+non-free
<NCommander> So how'd those packages end up in universe
<NCommander> if they were synced, it should have landed in multiverse
<Laney> Is the RC bugs list really empty?
<persia> Maybe they weren't synced?
<persia> Laney, I doubt it : more likely it's either thinking, or needs a kick, but he who kicks it isn't likely to be around for another couple hours.
<Laney> persia: That's what I thought
<ajmitch> or is awake & was hacking on it yesterday, and something broke?
<ajmitch> and didn't know about it, of course
<persia> Good morning ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> "a couple of hours" for me is lunchtime :)
 * Laney giggles
<persia> Isn't it only about 9am there?
<persia> And it's it saturday?  And isn't Friday traditionally beer day?
<ajmitch> daylight saving time
<ajmitch> it is saturday
<persia> Ah.  Missed the DST change.
<slytherin> NCommander: which package are you talking about?
<NCommander> What am I talking about?
<ajmitch> ok, so my code cleanup had a minor bug
<slytherin> NCommander: some package that is in universe even though it is in Debina contrib
<slytherin> persia: shouldn't sun-java5 packages be removed from archives now? openjdk is in better shape than most Free JDK/JRE and we already have another Sun JDK.
<persia> I think there was some discussion about that at the Foundations meeting this week.  Let me see if I can find the log.
<persia> slytherin, According to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/10/08/%23ubuntu-meeting.html it looks like it's a release-notes issue for intrepid, and maybe a goal for jaunty.  Perhaps you could write a spec about moving everything to the 1.6 class format?
<slytherin> we don't need to move everything to 1.6 class format. we need to compiler everything in 1.5 format using either Sun JDK 6 or openjdk
<persia> openjdk generates 1.6 by default, according to the meeting log.
<stefanlsd> i've made a debdiff for mplayer in dapper. is it normal that the config.sub and config.guess remain in the diff?  Or can i remove them.
<slytherin> right and if we have to keep compatibility with GCJ we need 1.5. Of course I wonder if GCJ will be of any relevance in another year.
<persia> stefanlsd, It's normal that they remain in the diff if they were copied at packaging time.  Personally, I think it's better to copy them in configure: rather than clean:, but that's the sort of change that should not be made for an SRU.
<persia> slytherin, Write a spec.  It can get a review.  Either 1.5 or 1.6 might be correct.
<slytherin> persia: sure. I will write one as soon as jaunty cycle starts
<persia> slytherin, OK.  Specs should be loosely drafted by mid-November, and mostly ready for review by end-November, just so you can plan your schedule.
<slytherin> Ok. Cool
<stefanlsd> persia: looks the they were included in the original .diff file. In this case, it copies them in clean:: unpatch.  -  then when i do my debdiff, i get the updated files showing. So thats ok in this case (as its not worth moving)
<persia> stefanlsd, It's very much not worth fixing in an SRU.  I personally don't like it, but others prefer it for different reasons.
<stefanlsd> persia: just to check if i get it right. if it was in configure, it would be there for the build, but would be removed during the clean phase, so wouldnt appear in the diff...
<persia> stefanlsd, No, if the copy was in configure: you'd leave it alone, so it wouldn't be in the diff.gz, and it wouldn't be in the debdiff, but it would be copied before ./configure was called in the build.
<persia> clean would also leave it alone.  The reason some people don't like this is because debian/rules clean isn't idempotent when you do it like that.
<stefanlsd> persia: heh. sorry, still not sure why I dont see it if im copying it.  (i've tried it, and yes - the diff.gz show the same content for config.guess and config.sub).  So what happens different by copying it before ./configure as opposed to it being in a clean rule?
<persia> stefanlsd, It's when it gets copied.  debian/rules clean gets called when you create the source package.  The configure: target is usually called by build: and only happens at build time.
<persia> One interesting side effect is that if we had different config.{sub.guess} in Debian and Ubuntu, packages in sync that copied it in clean: would use the Debian version, and those that copied it in configure: would use the Ubuntu version.
<stefanlsd> persia: aah. great. thanks. that makes sense then.  thanks for your patience :)
<persia> stefanlsd, No problem.  Always good to see questions, rather than people trying to do things when they aren't sure :)
<slytherin> persia: if you have nothing better to do, bug #281480
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281480 in jhove "Fix for FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281480
<persia> slytherin, I've lots of other stuff, but I'll push that if nobody else does soon.
<slytherin> persia: no issues. That is why I said 'if you have nothing better to do' :-)
<stefanlsd> typo in the debdiff - defaulf jdk.
<persia> That ought get fixed :)
<slytherin> stefanlsd: It's 3:30 am here and I already had hectic day at office. :-)
<stefanlsd> hehe. ouch :)
<slytherin> got to go now. bye all.
<persia> Going to bed without fixing the debdiff?  That's not ideal.
<Syntux> Thou shall receive nightmares!
<james_w> has anyone ever seen dpatch-edit-patch convert the patches to context diffs?
<persia> james_w, If they weren't context diffs previously, yes, although wrapped in the special dpatch wrapper.
<james_w> yeah
<emgent> heya
<nhandler_> Hi emgent
<emgent> heya nhandler_ :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-11
<Bernmeister> Hi all...I've writting a couple of open-source java apps which I've released under Windows (using ant and then NSIS to build/package).  I've recently moved across to Ubuntu and I'm finding it difficult to find a guide on going from building a Jar to creating a Deb which I believe is the equivalent of a Windows installer.  Any ideas/suggestions/tutorials?  Ideally I'd like to build the DEB (or whatever) and make that available 
<porthose> Bernmeister: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<Bernmeister> porthose: Thanks.  Does this also apply to Java though?  It seems to me there's a big difference between compling C and makeing a package to just "wrapping up a jar file"...
<porthose> Bermmeister:  yes it will work for java, php, python and others
<fta> persia, https://edge.launchpad.net/fennec
<Bernmeister> Thanks.
<persia> fta, Thanks.
<persia> lool, ^^
<persia> Anyone know BTS well?  Is there a way to specify a block when filing a bug, or do I need to wait for a reply, and then send a message to control@b.d.o?
<slangasek> block is one command that you have to wait for the bug number on
<persia> Oh well.  Thanks.
<fta> persia, it occurs that fennec now requires xulrunner 1.9.1, which is still not in ubuntu: see bug 274187
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274187 in ubuntu "FFe - firefox 3.1 and xulrunner 1.9.1 for intrepid/universe" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274187
<persia> fta, The discussions I saw were more about Jaunty, for which I suspect there's no real question.
<AnAnt> Hello, is there something to add or someone to subscribe to this bug #281451  ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281451 in linux "uvesafb does not support 1280x800 resolution for NVIDIA graphics adapters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281451
<persia> AnAnt, generally #ubuntu-bugs is a better place for that sort of question, but it looks close to right to me.
<AnAnt> persia: oh, how are you ?
<AnAnt> persia: I made a new sl-modem package btw
<persia> AnAnt, Cool.  Did it get uploaded?  Does it work?
<persia> Does it integrate with ALSA cleanly now?
<AnAnt> persia: it works on mom's laptop, and some other guys laptop
<AnAnt> persia: yes with ALSA
<persia> amd64?
<AnAnt> persia: I didn't try with slusb/slamr
<AnAnt> persia: well, it did work in amd64 before I think
<AnAnt> persia: I don't have an amd64 to test
<persia> AnAnt, I can test.  Is it in the archive?
<AnAnt> persia: anyways, I sent to all bug reports in Debian & Ubuntu to give me feedback, no one replied except one guy, but he didn't close a bug, just said that it works fine with him
<AnAnt> persia: mentors.debian.net
<persia> AnAnt, I'll give it a shot.  I suspect it's too late for intrepid, but I can at least test, and make sure it gets into Jaunty.
<AnAnt> jump on the rabbit
<AnAnt> or with it, dunno
 * persia likes to ride on the back while holding the antlers
 * ScottK-laptop wonders if anyone from motu-release will be at UDS.
<persia> I hope so.  I'd like to have a session about release planning.  If not, maybe something can be scheduled for #ubuntu-meeting?
 * ScottK-laptop isn't going.  Dunno about the others.
<persia> Are you likely to be available via VoIP and IRC?
<StevenK> ScottK-laptop: But it's in the same country!
<persia> StevenK, That makes the flight *less* pleasant.
<persia> (but shorter)
<StevenK> How so?
<ScottK-laptop> Not really.  California is almost like a country of it's own.
<ScottK-laptop> It's not a good time for me to take a week of vacation.
<persia> StevenK, seat size, pay for water, no external snacks, 6 hour runway delays, etc.  The headlines for domestic air services in that country make for amusing reading.
<StevenK> persia: Or crying, if you happen to live there
<ScottK-laptop> persia: That's mainly a matter of picking the well run airlines (there are approximately two).
<StevenK> persia: I always get amazed by people coming up to the counter and saying "Hi! Do you have any space for me on the flight? No, okay, thanks!"
<persia> StevenK, That's how I prefer to fly.
<StevenK> persia: Why?
<ScottK-laptop> Actually the way the economy seems to be going there should be plenty of room the planes.
<persia> StevenK, Saves thought, and costs about half as much.  I rarely spend more than about 2 hours in an airport, except when I have a reservation for some unknown reason.
<superm1> persia, really it's half as much?
<persia> superm1, Depends on the airline, but often, as the seats would go unpaid otherwise, so you basically get charged the lowest possible fare.
<Hobbsee> persia: there's going to be some release-type sessions globally, i think.
<persia> Trick is not to try to fly on busy days.  I like Tuesdays and Thursdays, personally.
<persia> Hobbsee, Yes, but that doesn't help.  As MOTU, we need to have some plan, as this release was a mess, and everything feels like recovery, rather than trying to accomplish anything.
<Hobbsee> persia: that's true.  Found out how to register sessions and such, yet?
<persia> Hobbsee, No idea.
 * persia doesn't tend to be a session driver much anyway, just loud
<wgrant> Don't we normally find out that sessions exist about an hour before the event?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: i'm really hoping that *doesn't* happen this time, as that's hwo i got landed in 2 sessions that i had to be in, simultaneously, last time.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: At least with VoIP one can almost be in two places at once.
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Let me know when your test is done.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: heh
<NCommander> ScottK, done
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Good, bad, indifferent?
<NCommander> builds fine on amd64
<AnAnt> persia: do you think I should use this new dkms for sl-modem-source ?
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I'll upload it then.  We'll see.
<AnAnt> does dkms replace module-assistant?
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: uploaded.  Thanks.
<persia> AnAnt, For Ubuntu, it would make things simpler, because you wouldn't have to chase kernel ABIs.  For Debian, I don't know.
<AnAnt> debian doesn't have dkms yet
<persia> DKMS is similar but different than module-assistant
<persia> Right, then you'd need a fork, or some fancy trickery in debian/rules
<AnAnt> tseliot: Hello, I responded you on bug #267217
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267217 in compiz "Compiz segmentation faults after Intrepid update" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267217
<AnAnt> how do I use dkms ?
<tseliot> AnAnt: let me have a look
<AnAnt> tseliot: thanks
<tseliot> AnAnt: the driver seems to work well on your computer
<tseliot> what's the problem?
<stefanlsd> Can someone nominate for release for me please - bug #279030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279030 in mplayer "[CVE-2008-3827] Multiple integer underflows in MPlayer 1.0_rc2 and earlier allow remote attackers to cause a denial of service" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279030
<Hobbsee> ugh!  SRU people, please fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/shadow/+bug/238755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238755 in shadow "'Account has expired' message when adding a new user, after "passwd -l root"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Hobbsee> that's why my cron isn't running.. gah!
<Hobbsee> !release
<ubottu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<lool> persia: thx
<DktrKranz> doko, re bug 268260, further investigations revealed libgtkada2 and libtemplates-parser need to be adjusted together with asis to have dependant packages to be built. I'd push those three first and then, once compiled, the remaining ones (they are not linked one another), sounds reasonable for you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268260 in libtemplates-parser "GNAT 4.2 Transition Tracking Bug" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268260
<doko> DktrKranz: sure, just make sure that you update the build dependencies so that the buildds can sort this out themself
<DktrKranz> Yes, thanks.
<gaspa> saivann: can i bother you just a moment? i'm guessing how works an usplash function ( draw_status() ) ...
<gaspa> can you explain in two words how should it works?
 * persia suspects that two words is "just works" and that more will be required :)
<Syntux> Good day
<gaspa> persia: :D
<BUGabundo1> hi MOTUs
<BUGabundo1> can some one show some love for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars/+bug/248087/ ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248087 in hedgewars "Please sync hedgewars 0.9.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]
<BUGabundo1> good morning ogra
<Laney> BUGabundo1: You should subscribe the sponsors if you want sponsorship
<Laney> (also that will need a FFe now)
<BUGabundo1> no
<BUGabundo1> for jaunty
<BUGabundo1> it may not get auto sinc
<BUGabundo1> at least it wasn't for Intrepid
<geser> BUGabundo1: it's a little bit early for sync requests for jaunty
<BUGabundo1> its to late for Ibex, unless for backports
<BUGabundo1> geser: ibex backports then?
<BUGabundo1> debian packages run flawlessly on my system
<geser> BUGabundo1: you need it first in jaunty for a backport
<Laney> It was autosynced
<BUGabundo1> bah
<Laney> But the versions that bug talks about were after DIF
<BUGabundo1> let me check its history
<geser> BUGabundo1: currently the package has no Ubuntu changes so it gets auto-synced for jaunty -> no sync requst needed
<BUGabundo1> I was told it didn't get auto sinc
<ogra> hey BUGabundo1
<Laney> BUGabundo1: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars
 * BUGabundo1 opening
<Laney> Look at all the intrepid versions...
<BUGabundo1> Ubuntu Archive Auto-Sync <Â archive@ubuntu.com>   Fri,  20 Jun 2008 10:24:19 +0100
<BUGabundo1> I guess it was auto synced
<BUGabundo1> that's what you get when you trust ppl info, instead you check for your self
<Laney> I guess whoever told you doesn't know about DIF
<BUGabundo1> so now is uber late to get it into Ibex?
<Laney> pretty much
<BUGabundo1> no FFe so late, right?
<BUGabundo1> even dough it has no changes ?
<geser> you need now a very,very good reason for a FFe
<Laney> This seems like the perfect backport candidate
<BUGabundo1> peatty... its such a nice game, and the new version has several new weapons
<Laney> latest crack
<BUGabundo1> I love that crazy H'day cake weapon
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone review the freeze exception request: #281680
<BUGabundo1> geser: aint new weapons a very very very good reason ?
<BUGabundo1> eheheh
<AnAnt> bug #281680
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281680 in ubuntume-themes "GTK+ theme does not work in Intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281680
<geser> BUGabundo1: you need to convince the ~motu-release team not me :)
<BUGabundo1> eheh
<BUGabundo1> need to get 2 of them that like to play it... bah
<BUGabundo1> now, where can I find that info on them ...
 * BUGabundo1 ask geser for ~motu-release team direction
<geser> BUGabundo1: https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+members
<slytherin> BUGabundo1: http://launchpad.net/~motu-release
<BUGabundo1> thanks
<AnAnt> should I add any other tags to it ?
 * slytherin feels ubuntu should stop putting gnome-games on CD.
<persia> slytherin, And put what?  sgt-puzzles?
<AnAnt> or modify the status ?
<slytherin> persia: No. put wesnoth. :-P
<slytherin> just kidding.
<slytherin> there have to be some better games than the ones in gnome games.
<persia> heh
<AnAnt> persia: did you try sl-modem ?
<persia> AnAnt, Not yet.
<slytherin> I mean who plays solitaire and tetris these days?
<iulian> slytherin: Yes, but some of them are bigger than the current ones.
<geser> AnAnt: subscribing the right sponsoring team would be good
<AnAnt> geser: I subscribed motu-release
<iulian> slytherin: Have a look at popcon.
<iulian> Ah
<slytherin> AnAnt: that is wrong team
<slytherin> AnAnt: ubuntu-universe-sponsors is the right one.
<AnAnt> slytherin: I read that in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<geser> AnAnt: motu-release is only for FFe and it doesn't need on, just simple sponsoring
<slytherin> AnAnt: is this new version then?
<AnAnt> geser: this bug is a FFe
<geser> it's neither a new upstream version nor a new feature but just a bug fix
<geser> AnAnt: why it's a FFe?
<AnAnt> slytherin: I thought bug fix should be in FFe
<slytherin> this is a ubuntu native package right?
<geser> you don't need a FFe for a bug fix
<AnAnt> slytherin: yup
<AnAnt> actualy I didn't subscribe motu-release, I assigned to motu-release
<AnAnt> should I assign to no one ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: was there a need to bump debhelper requirement?
<slytherin> yes, assign to no one
<AnAnt> slytherin: for dh_icons
<slytherin> ahh, silly me didn't check changelog
<BUGabundo1> geser: reason submit
<BUGabundo1> *submited
<BUGabundo1> lol
<AnAnt> ok, subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors , and assigned to no one.
<AnAnt> should the bug status be Confirmed ?
<AnAnt> or fix commited since I put a diff ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: instead of '* Use dh_icons. ' in changelog, put ' * debian/rules: Use dh_icons.' and also add LP: #xxxxxx somewhere in the changelog for automatic bug closing.
<slytherin> AnAnt: confirmed
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> done
<AnAnt> uploaded new diff & set status to confirmed
<Hobbsee> hmmm...more people.
<Hobbsee> are people sure they don't want to do a SRU?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: I'm waiting for someone to sponsor my bug fix #281680
<Hobbsee> bug 281680
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281680 in ubuntume-themes "GTK+ theme does not work in Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281680
<Hobbsee> i think the patch for that is borked, somehow, with teh RTL formatting of yoru name.
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: why hte versioned build depends?
<AnAnt> debhelper you mean ?
<Hobbsee> oh, dh_icons
<AnAnt> because dh_icons does not work for debhelper < 5.0.51
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: well, seeing as this is going into intrepid...
<Hobbsee> unless you want it to complain if you backport it to feisty, it's probably not needed.
<Hobbsee> (seeing as everything else is equal to, or greater than, that version anyway)
<AnAnt> well, it won't hurt, does it ?
<Hobbsee> no, afaik, it's just a useless change.
<persia> Useless divergence from Debian should be avoided wherever possible : it makes it harder to merge the next version.
<Hobbsee> persia: it's ubuntu-native.
<slytherin> persia: he he, this is ubuntu native package. :-P
<persia> Oh, then it doesn't matter at all.
<persia> It's neither useful or useless, it's just irrelevant.
<persia> (especially because feisty goes EOL in a week or two)
<Hobbsee> persia: is 2.4~ a legit version anyway?
<Hobbsee> persia: i thought it had to have a number on the end, but it may not.
<persia> All by iteself?  That's not ideal.
<persia> No, "iwin" is a perfectly valid version, it's just poor form.
<persia> I'd recommend against using 2.4~
<Hobbsee> apart from that, and my curiousity about whether a patch that includes a cuople of RTL bits will actually apply, it looks fine.
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: ^
<persia> Hobbsee, It works fine.  I've applied AnAnt's patches lots of times.
<AnAnt> it does apply
<Hobbsee> persia: ah, cool :)
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: so, will you do the FFe if i sponsor this?  :)
<AnAnt> what FFe ?
<Hobbsee> sorry, SRU.  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/shadow/+bug/238755
<AnAnt> I was told that this is a bug fix not an FFe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238755 in shadow "'Account has expired' message when adding a new user, after "passwd -l root"" [Undecided,Fix released]
<Hobbsee> no, i'm getting my terminologies confused.
 * persia blames DST
<AnAnt> so, what should I do ?
<AnAnt> it says Fix released
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: it's for hardy
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: intrepid is fixed.
<AnAnt> I don't have hardy anymore
<persia> AnAnt, Surely you can make a pbuilder or sbuild chroot though, right?
<AnAnt> I think so
<AnAnt> I can use pbuilder
<persia> And since it's a command line tool, you can probably test with pbuilder --login
<AnAnt> hang on
<slytherin> persia: pm?
<AnAnt> hmm
<AnAnt> sudo pbuilder  --login --distribution hardy
<AnAnt> it says extracting base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz]
<slytherin> AnAnt: that --distribution option is for creating chroot not for login
<AnAnt> then what should I do ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: uploaded, without the debhelper change (it looks messy, and is irrelevant)
<Hobbsee> persia: indeed, you're right.
<slytherin> AnAnt: you can have multiple pbuilderrc and then use --configfile option for referring to a particular pbuilder chroot
<AnAnt> oh, download hardy again
<Hobbsee> interesting.  I don't think the janitor got the name from the changelog right.
<Hobbsee> wow, 60 uus bugs!  an improvement!
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: it's launchpad problem
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: same thing in PPA
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: yeah, i figured - displays fine on my system and such
<Hobbsee> dholbach: are you going to sponsor bugs from the uus queue today?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: bug is reported close to a year ago
<dholbach> Hobbsee: maybe... depends if I get my router to work again
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: it might get fixed soon then.   maybe.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: well, you've got to irc, which is a good strat...
<dholbach> ...
<dholbach> borrowed wifi from neighbour
<slytherin> dholbach: borrowed with permission? ;-)
<Hobbsee> slytherin: presumably jhove can be bumped to universe too now?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: yes it can. But I am not going to file any more move to universe bugs till the ones already in archive admin queue get cleared.
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: thanks anyways
<Hobbsee> slytherin: heh, fair enough.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: id' do it, but i don't have those powers.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: howeve,r if you bribed StevenK...
<persia> Hobbsee, I promised other members of the release team that the Java team wouldn't be pushing more stuff from multiverse to universe except to resolve cases where universe depends/recommends on multiverse for this cycle.
<Hobbsee> persia: ahh
<Hobbsee> persia: i hadn't seen that.
<slytherin> yes, and that too.
<persia> Hobbsee, We'll get right back on it for Jaunty, but wanted to reduce the noise and let the archive settle a bit for the release :)
<persia> There's still a few cases where it violates the ogre model that need sorting, and those are important, so not having more helps make that clear to the archive admins.
<Hobbsee> hey...that's not nice!
 * Hobbsee doesn't want to install 70.5mb, just to sponsor a package...
<StevenK> Refuse?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you've got a mirror haven't you?  I'll assign you the bug :P
<persia> Hobbsee, Java?
<slytherin> Hobbsee: you could try building it in ppa or you can leave it to be handled by persia or geser
<persia> Which package is this?
<slytherin> persia: jhove
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah
<Hobbsee> slytherin: nah, it's even building the source for it
<persia> Oh, right.
<Hobbsee> i'll find a machine with a local mirror
 * persia still has that bug open somewhere in the stack
<slytherin> StevenK: Hobbsee suggested that I bribe you for clearing up some move to universe bugs related to java apps/libs. So what would your prefer as bribe?
<StevenK> Standard sysadmin bribe
<Hobbsee> beer?
<slytherin> how do I dispatch it? :-)
<StevenK> Come to UDS
<slytherin> I would rather propose UDS in India. :-D
<Hobbsee> oh, 41.6 mb without recommends.  that's not so bad.
<persia> UDS in India would be interesting, but I worry about bandwidth
<slytherin> persia: badnwidth is not a bug issue, security is the biggest one.
<jsgotangco> a UDS in Asia would be interesting
<persia> slytherin, Isn't that just a matter of hiring some guards?
<slytherin> persia: I haven't yet tried. :-)
<persia> jsgotangco, Indeed.  Where do you think strikes the best balance of cost and bandwidth?
<jsgotangco> persia: you would be surprised how good bandwidth in some countries here are
<persia> jsgotangco, I doubt it.  I used to be responsible for network operations for Asia-Pacific for a multinational :)
<jsgotangco> lol
<persia> That said, it's about balancing price and bandwidth.
<jsgotangco> true
<jsgotangco> at least i'm better off with my bandwidth than people in AU :-)
<persia> Somewhere like Laos is cheap, but the bandwidth is bad.  Somewhere like Korea has *great* bandwidth, but it's not so cheap.
<jsgotangco> Vietnam is nice
<jsgotangco> persia: dude not Laos lol, that place is quite provincial
<persia> Like I said, the bandwidth is bad :)
<jsgotangco> Singapore would be nice
<elkbuntu> jsgotangco, rub it in why don't you.
<persia> Singapore could work.  Good flight connectivity too.  Direct to Sydney, Tokyo, Newark, LA, Frankfurt.
 * jsgotangco hubs elkbuntu
<slytherin> persia: India is ideal place. There are various cities like Hyderabad, Bangalore, Pune, Delhi which would give you good bandwidth to price ratio.
<jsgotangco> persia: technology wise, you can't go wrong with either India or SG
<persia> slytherin, It's hard to fly there though, and I've never been satisfied with latency to India except with private fibre, but maybe that's just me.
<slytherin> persia: When did you fly here last time? Things have improved in last 2-3 years.
<persia> slytherin, At least that long ago.  Are there now direct flights to most major international hubs?
<slytherin> yes, AFAIK.
<persia> OK.  Works for me.
<slytherin> Ocotber/November is the ideal time. Because March/April is too hot. So we have one whole year for planning. :-)
<Hobbsee> persia: singapore wouldn't work.
<persia> Hobbsee, ?
<Hobbsee> persia: not unless you want the developers from europe to curl up and die.
<Hobbsee> persia: they'd never cope with the humidity
<Hobbsee> or, unless they'd never have to leave the hotel, or something
<Hobbsee> pity, as it's quite a beautiful place
<persia> That could work.  Focused UDS.  No city tours.
<Hobbsee> no dinner?
<persia> Hrm.  Right.
<persia> Anyway, it's late here (not as late as there on your clock, but *much later on mine).
<Hobbsee> persia: before you go - just checking i haven't gone mad here - the xine-lib transition can't be dropped, just because the transitions "done" can it?
<Hobbsee> based on the descriptions of the packages, i can't see how that could possibly be right.
<persia> Hobbsee, I think we have to preserve it, but check with siretart.
<Hobbsee> persia: right.  already pushed it back
<Hobbsee> done 4 bugs today, plus put a few on the release radar.  i'm sure that's enough :P
<sebner> Hobbsee: ~5-a-day~
<sebner> :P
<Hobbsee> sebner: :P
<Hobbsee> sebner: nah, i just marked one of the release radar bugs as one of the 5 a day :P
<sebner> Hobbsee: fine then :P
<lfaraone> How long after release do we wait before new packages can be submitted?
<RainCT> lfaraone: it can take 1-2 weeks or so until the repos for jaunty are created, but reviewing of new packages can start before
<RainCT> !revu > lfaraone
<ubottu> lfaraone, please see my private message
<lfaraone> RainCT: Ok, I'm just wondering at what point can I start building. (I'm going to see if I can get gwibber in the repos,  it's waay too late now of ourse)
<ScottK-laptop> lfaraone: That early in the cycle building on the previous release is generallly just fine.
<slytherin> does debian have any revu style setup?
<bddebian> mentors.debian.net
<bddebian> But it isn't quite as well "supported" for lack of a better term.
<slytherin> ok
<fta> persia, lool: early previews of fennec for intrepid & hardy are in my ppa, in case you care to give it a try.
<fta> no armel obviously
<RainCT> Does someone here know how debian_bundle.deb822.Sources works?
<james_w> hey RainCT
<james_w> what are you stuck with?
<RainCT> james_w: I want to create a Sources.bz2 file (I'm working on apt-get'able source repos for REVU) but I can't find no documentation on how to do it with python-debian. An example or something would be great, else I may just write a function for that myself (isn't that difficult after all).
<james_w> hmm, I've only ever used it for reading them
<james_w> they have a __str__ method defined
<RainCT> well, seems like it's easier to just write it myself
<james_w> yeah
<ScottK-laptop> RainCT: Then you might send patches to Debian after ....
<RainCT> james_w: it's useful to get the required info for the Sources.bz2, though :)
<RainCT> ScottK-laptop: hm.. it seems rather read-only oriented, not sure where such a function would fit there
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  Just a thought.
<RainCT> Should archived packages be apt-get'able?
 * RainCT will take that for a no :P
<ScottK-laptop> I'm good with no.
<slytherin> RainCT: archives that means someone is already working on them. Don't think they should be apt-get'able.
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: No.  Archived means it's done being worked on.  Usual reason is it's been uploaded and you should get it from the Ubuntu archive.
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: right, so it is ok to exclude them from the apt-get'able archives on revu, right?
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<RainCT> james_w: Is there something to read debian/control in debian_bundle?
<james_w> RainCT: yeah
<james_w> one moment please
<james_w> RainCT: hmm, is it just a Deb822 object that should be used?
<james_w> ah, PackageFile from debian_support can do it
<james_w> RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56323/ <- fragment of some code I wrote that might help
<RainCT> james_w: thanks :)
<james_w> making the BinaryPackage thing a dict might be more useful, I needed attributes
<RainCT> it's just to get the priority and the section, anyway
<danbh_intrepid> Hobbsee: ping
<RainCT> siretart: I'd like to get ride of column "isarchived" from Upload. Is there some special reason why it was added?
<ethana2> OO.o 3 final binaries are out
<ethana2> Is intrepid main going to stick to OO.o 2.4 or will it ship with 3.0?
<RainCT> james_w: seems like   [x for x in ...PackageFile(...)]   results in an exception if the control file has more than 2 Binary entries
<RainCT>     raise ParseError(self.name, lineno, msg)
<RainCT> debian_bundle.debian_support.ParseError: expected package field
<james_w> I didn't say this code was tested :-)
<danbh_intrepid> ethana2: I don't actually know, but I have a suspicion, that the answer is no.   Intrepid is already in a feature freeze, and openoffice 3 is only in the experimental repos of debian
<james_w> asac: I'd appreciate your input in bug 262191
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262191 in network-manager-vpnc "NM 0.7 Regression from 0.6.6 using VPNC plugin" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262191
<RainCT> james_w: OK, I've a fix. Should I send it to submit@bugs.debian.org or to some other place?
<james_w> RainCT: what's the fix?
<james_w> for debian_support?
<RainCT> james_w: Yes.   if line == '\n':   should be   if line.strip(' ') == '\n':
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: what should be for bug 238755 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238755 in shadow "'Account has expired' message when adding a new user, after "passwd -l root"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238755
<james_w> RainCT: yeah, submit@ please
<siretart> RainCT: the idea of 'isarchived' was to have these uploads not on the main page. main use case: the package has been accepted into the archive
<RainCT> siretart: yea, but there's also SourcePackage.isinarchive which is used for the same
<siretart> RainCT: the idea for that was something else. We had a cron job that regularily scanned for package versions in the archive. this way revu could tell if the version number indicated if that was an already accepted upload in ubuntu
<RainCT> siretart: Ah. Well, I still think it would be better to only have it once (and in the SourcePackage table), though. Thanks for the info :).
<siretart> RainCT: right. ideally we'd probably had a special table with source packages an versions in the archive, initally filled via a script that parses Sources.gz and regularily updated via some .procmailrc
<RainCT> omg.. now please tell me why there are _source.changes files with wrong encoding on REVU -.-
<henux> So ...
<henux> I am an able Linux programmer with an interest of contributing to Ubuntu.
<henux> I have used Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Arch. Now I am at Arch, but I'm downloading Intrepid.
<henux> I have read some of your wiki docs and there was talk about this "MOTU program" where I can perhaps get a Mentor.
<henux> I can do C, C++, C#, Java, Python, PHP, SQL, HTML, Bash...
<henux> I could perhaps start with bug fixing and packaging...
<james_w> hey henux
<james_w> that's a good place to start
<henux> hey james_w
<henux> james_w: can you be my mentor?
<james_w> there is a mentoring program if you wish to have a mentor, but it can take a little time to get a mentor, so it's good to get stuck in
<henux> Yes I could use a Mentor
<james_w> henux: sorry, I can't I've got as many mentees as I can take currently
<henux> I understand
<henux> How do I apply for a mentor then?
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<james_w> it's linked from there, along with loads of other information about MOTU and how to get involved
<dholbach> henux: dive into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted - we have some pretty good docs and videos, there's a few lists of things that you get started on and you can always ask in here if you have questions
<dholbach> henux: it's awesome you're getting involved with MOTU like that
<dholbach> maybe you can help iron out a few small bugs before we release intrepid :)
<henux> okay i will check those out
<dholbach> rock and roll
<henux> If I contribute bug fixes and code to Ubuntu, will those fixes be committed "upstream", to the original sources or will they remain in Ubuntu only?
<henux> Such as, if I fix a bug in some program X
<dholbach> henux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream has documentation on how to best forward fixes to Upstream
<RainCT> henux: only in Ubuntu, but you are highly encouraged to send them upstream too
<geser> henux: depends if you forward them (preferable) or not
<dholbach> we're just having a discussion about it on ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com and it seems that the concensus is that the patch author is in most cases best privileged to forward it upstream
<henux> Okay, thanks.
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> I'm out for dinner - see you all next week!
<henux> See you.
<henux> I see that there is much to learn.
<dholbach> but it's fun, you get to know a lot of people and it's very rewarding :)
<dholbach> party on!
<henux> Sounds good
<henux> Oh by the way, I have developed a Supybot plugin which displays UNIX man pages from the Ubuntu Manpage Repository. We have it in use in #club-ubuntu.
<henux> http://nor.fi/~henrih/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7:ubuntuman&catid=9:other&Itemid=14
<RainCT> henux: cool :)
 * RainCT is going to kill himself because people can't write proper debian/control files, btw
<RainCT> omg, the source repo is working \o/
<henux> Do you consider anyone could be interested about that in #ubuntu-dev or somewhere?
<henux> About my UbuntuMan plugin, I mean.
<zul> henux: you might want to talk to kirkland he is the guy behind it
<RainCT> and I'm going to stab the next one who uploads some package to revu with a debian/control file which is broken in some unpredictable way :P
<iulian> Yay, you scare me.
<DktrKranz> RainCT, it's a challenge? :)
<henux> zul: I dropped him a PM.
<DktrKranz> "hax0r REVU" contest
<zul> henux: you might want to do it on the weekday though
<henux> He will see the PM when he comes back, I hope.
 * henux goes back to reading Ubuntu Wiki.
<RainCT> yeha :)
<RainCT> deb-src http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/archive intrepid revu
<james_w> nice work RainCT
<RainCT> james_w: thx :)
<henux> I'm going to install Intrepid now, hope to see you again soon.
<RainCT> DktrKranz: that depends. do you consider "being stabbed" a reward? :)
<emgent> moin
<emgent> s/moin/evening/
<DktrKranz> RainCT, it depends... if I quicly replace myself with some of my several enemies.... ;)
<emgent> hey DktrKranz
<RainCT> hi emgent
<DktrKranz> hoy emgent
<emgent> hi RainCT :)
<james_w> anyone have a powerpc development box?
<DktrKranz> james_w, not directly, but I can ask a friend of mine
<james_w> it's ok, it's not that important
<james_w> thanks though
<DktrKranz> let me know when you need it
<henux> I just installed Intrepid, no GUI, only command line. Wifi not working `iwlist wlan0 scan` does not find my wlan. I have Broadcom BMCxxx as Ethernet controller and Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 as Network controller. Any help?
<henux> fixed
<henux> Do I need to install intrepid in order to contribute into Ubuntu?
<henux> I'm having troubles running Intrepid with my laptop
<geser> henux: not directly, but it helps having atleast a intrepid chroot at hand to test packages
<henux> i installed command line base system only, and then installed X, slim and fluxbox. now the keyboard and touchpad do not work
<henux> i have dell latitude d630,  can anyone help?
<henux> also, lynx cant browse help.ubuntu.com it says its not build with ssl support
<henux> geser: can i then contribute into ubuntu, even if running Arch or some other distro?
<geser> henux: yes
<henux> hmmm
<geser> but it helps to have the development version of ubuntu around so you can test your patches
<james_w> nellery: hey, does kbib have a freeze exception?
<nellery> james_w, Hi, no it doesn't
<nellery> Should it get one?
<RainCT> henux: (w3m -installed by default- has SSL support)
<james_w> nellery: it looks like there are new features to me, do you agree?
<nellery> james_w, looks like it
<nellery> though most of the updates are bug fixes
<james_w> nellery: cool, please request one then.
<nellery> james_w, Ok
<james_w> nellery: I assume it's a KDE program?
<nellery> james_w, yes
<james_w> nellery: maybe you can get one from the KDE delegate then, that may be easier
<nellery> james_w, okay, thanks a lot
<henux> i need to read pop3 mailbox from console just to reset my launchpad password and report this bug. what email client i can use?
 * james_w suspects Laney of developing on Windows
<james_w> henux: is mutt installed?
<henux> yes
<henux> i dont know how to use it
<james_w> ah, that's more tricky
<henux> this failed intrepid experiment really didnt give me a good impression of it... :/
<RainCT> henux: how have you updated?
<henux> RainCT: keyboard and touchpad dont work
<henux> im downloading hardy and installing it
<Elbrus> henux: I think RainCT asked how you installed intrepid... I assume by LiveCD, but you didn't say
<henux> yes
<henux> well no
<Elbrus> henux: in that case: which version?
<henux> i used alternative iso
<henux> and only the command line system
<henux> x86
<henux> should i perhaps install the complete desktop?
<Elbrus> henux: I have not used the CD
<Elbrus> s in a long time, what was an alternative iso?
<henux> i would like to contribute into ubuntu, but this intrepid install really didnt work for me
<Elbrus> so, I still don't know exactly how you installed it...
<henux> Elbrus: it allows to install only the command line base system and build from there
<henux> i like to use flubxo
<Elbrus> so you run something like apt-get install ....?
<henux> yes
<henux> fluxbox*
 * Elbrus looks up what fluxbo is
<RainCT> henux: and what's the problem with the keyboard?
<henux> Elbrus: i meant fluxbox
<RainCT> Elbrus: it's a window manager
<henux> RainCT: I installed xserver-xorg, slim and fluxbox. keyboard nor touchpad work in X, they just dont respond
<RainCT> henux: do you have the necessary xserver-xorg-input- modules?
<henux> perhaps i should configure the X first?
<Elbrus> maybe try a standard window manager first... KDE4 or GNOME, where the latter might be slightly more stable at the moment.
<henux> RainCT: i dont know, doesnt it installl them automatically?
<Elbrus> just to get it working
<RainCT> henux: no
<henux> Elbrus: fluxbox is very stable
<henux> Elbrus: havent had problems with it before
<RainCT> or perhaps it does, not sure
<Elbrus> also in Ubuntu??
<henux> Elbrus: yes in hardy
<RainCT> henux: check if you have xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
<henux> RainCT: `sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg` brings a lot of video-* and input-* packages
<Elbrus> ok, I am just trying to help, but have no experience there (and didn't know).
<henux> RainCT: its intalled
<henux> installed*
<henux> Elbrus: sure
<nellery> where is the logfile kept when running --logfile with pbuilder?
<henux> how do i start the X config tool from CLI?
<RainCT> nellery: --logfile takes a filename as argument
<henux> ah
<henux> foudn it
<RainCT> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<nellery> RainCT, how should it be run?
<RainCT> nellery: pbuilder .... --logfile file_name_you_want.log
<nellery> RainCT, thanks a lot
<henux> now, how do i restart X? one is already running
<RainCT> henux: try:   sudo /etc/init.d/slim restart
<RainCT> at least with gdm / kdm it's like that
<henux> slim not responding to TERM signall
<henux> i will do killall
<henux> nothing
<henux> now plain X is running
<henux> not responding to touchpad
<RainCT> henux: uhm.. sudo /etc/init.d/x11-common restart  ?
<RainCT> (the right place for Intrepid support is #ubuntu+1, btw)
<henux> nothing
<henux> they did not give me any help there
<RainCT> henux: how have you started X?
<henux> RainCT: its running in alt-f7
<henux> i can see the X mouse cursor and background
<RainCT> henux: yea, but how have you started it?
<henux> RainCT: i installed slim and rebooted themachine
<henux> what is the name of the xserver's process? can i just kill it?
<henux> sudo /etc/init.d/x11-common stop  <-- this does not do anything
<RainCT> (not sure if that should do anything at all, was just a guess)
<henux> okay
<RainCT> could you kill slim or not?
<henux> yes
<henux> slim is no longer there
<RainCT> and if you start it now?
<henux> only plain x
<henux> it starts, nothing happens in alt-f7
<henux> ok i killed the X process
<henux> i will now restart slim
<henux> nothing, key and touchpad doesnt work
<henux> xorf.conf does not contain blocks for keyboard or mouse
<henux> probably because it does not recognize them
<james_w> is there a way to not have to specify -k all the time to debuild and debsign?
<RainCT> james_w: DEBFULLNAME, DEBEMAIL?
<RainCT> or you mean for sponsoring?
<RainCT> in the later case, you could try with   alias sdebuild='debuild -k<your email> $*'  or something like that
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> yeah, I thought there would be a way to do it
<james_w> there's DEBSIGN_KEYID, but it doesn't seem to do what I want
<james_w> surely taking it from the debian/changelog isn't the best way, unless you have multiple personalities
<james_w> I mean it works well for having no setup, but surely I should be able to override it by specifying a key to always sign with
<crevette> hello
<james_w> hey crevette
<crevette> hey james_w
<crevette> thanks a lot
<james_w> no problem
<crevette> Ubuntu ships an old version of nemiver, a GNOME graphical debugger, and I would like to have the latest version, seb128 is okay for that, I just need the process to get it
<crevette> I've already opena bug
<crevette> debian ships 0.6.2 and latest is 0.6.3
<crevette> it seems the nemiver package is just a sync'ed package from debian
<norsetto> nellery: re. bug 281814, have you done any testing?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281814 in kbib "Upgrade to 0.6.5?" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281814
<james_w> hey norsetto
<norsetto> james_w: hey james_w
<nellery> norsetto, Hi, I have and it appears to be working fine
<norsetto> nellery: thats good, the problem is that this thing hasn't seen any testing and so I'd rather be sure that its working fine in intrepid, and that if it doesn't, there is somebody that can take care of it
<nellery> norsetto, Well I'm using intrepid  to test it right now, and I'm fairly confident that I can take care of a major issue
<norsetto> nellery: that would be cool, if you can, pls. try also asking others to test it; waiting for the FFe to be approved you can use your PPA for that
<nellery> norsetto, okay, I will do that
<nellery> thanks a lot!
<norsetto> nellery: np
<azeem>  
<azeem> oops, sorry
<emgent> ScottK: ping
#ubuntu-motu 2008-10-12
<Hobbsee> danbh_intrepid: contentless pong
<danbh_intrepid> lol
<danbh_intrepid> Hobbsee: I figured I would ask you on irc regarding bug 280497 since I was unsure what info you were looking for.  Or, if I should follow up at all
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280497 in clutch "please remove clutch package from intrepid, merged upstream" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280497
<Hobbsee> danbh_intrepid: well, seeing as it's on the sponsorship queue, and transmission doesn't yet replace clutch, a diff for that would be good.
<Hobbsee> (so we don't leave stale binaries on a user's system)
<Hobbsee> (apart from that, you're perfectly correct - i used incomplete as a "this is not ready to be done / sponsored yet"
<Hobbsee> )
<Hobbsee> danbh_intrepid: and i'd prefer not to approve the removal bug, until that debdiff is actually done and in the archive - just to make sure it actually does happen
<danbh_intrepid> Hobbsee: cool, sounds good
<Hobbsee> danbh_intrepid: did you want to provide a patch, or do you want me to just do it?
<danbh_intrepid> well, I don't know how
<danbh_intrepid> maybe someday, I've looked at some packaging docs in the past...  regardless, anything thats done will have to be done by others.  I mainly wanted to provide the info clearly
<Hobbsee> ok, cool
<Hobbsee> danbh_intrepid: fixed (well, the first half)
<Hobbsee> drat, i can't unsubscribe bugs from u-u-s
<ScottK> emgent: pong
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Is it the clutch one?  If so, I'll do it
<ScottK> If not, which bug?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes, and i've already done it
<ScottK> OK.  I guess I was confused by you saying you couldn't.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: oh.  no, that was some java bug.
<Hobbsee> jhove, or something
<ScottK> I see.
<emgent> ScottK: fast question, i know that it`snt a good time but.. i need your feedback for upload rapache "early eagle" in intrepid :)
<emgent> this release is very stable and include big features, now it`s in rapache-devel PPA (~1 month in testing)
<emgent> ScottK: if i open bug and I will write a report of it (new features, bug fixes ecc..) can i have some chances for include it in intrepid ?
<emgent> i know that you are Server Team delegate.. :)
<emgent> ScottK: anyway i go to sleep now, feel free to reply via mail, thanks and good night.
<RAOF> Woah!  Who felt the need to upload nouveau?
<RAOF> s/upload/sync?
<wgrant> RAOF: I think it was bryce.
<RAOF> Does it _work_?
<wgrant> I heard that it doesn't build.
<RAOF> I thought we (a) didn't have a libdrm that the kernel module will build against and (b) didn't have the kernel module?
 * RAOF is totally unsurprised
<wgrant> Sounds about right.
<RAOF> Also, still have the baddevice, but I'm doing stuff now.
<wgrant> RAOF: It shouldn't be a baddevice any more.
<wgrant> And I know approximately why it happens now.
<RAOF> I may need to restart.
<wgrant> Yep.
<RAOF> I'm a bit busy now, I'll try later.
<wgrant> Some part of the X client stack is sending structs in the wrong order.
<Hobbsee> oh dear.
<wgrant> I can debug it myself now anyway, because I can use a remote amd64 client.
<wgrant> (it only affects amd64 clients, which was why none of us could reproduce it)
<RAOF> Hah.
<wgrant> RAOF: See bug #267611
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267611 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "[intrepid] cannot see touchpad tab in mouse configuration" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267611
<wgrant> The comments near the end in particular.
<wgrant> Running gdb through things, it's sending out the struct verbatim.
<wgrant> And nothing I can think of can convince gcc to be reorder it less.
<stgraber> wgrant: oh, I just read your comments. Good you found the bug, now the problem is to find a fix :)
<wgrant> stgraber: Yes - I'm very confused.
<wgrant> This is the first time I've dealt with internal X stuff...
<ajmitch> RAOF: slightly surpised about nouveau? :)
<RAOF> ajmitch: Indeed.
<ajmitch> ah well, that's cooperation for you
<RAOF> I'm not surprised that it failed to build, though.
<ajmitch> even if it builds, it likely won't work, right?
<RAOF> Indeed.
 * ajmitch wouldn't mind being able to use it one day, but until then it's not so useful
<RAOF> You totally can now, just not with the packages in the archive.
<ajmitch> by 'use it', is that limited to just 2D?
<RAOF> Not necessarily.
<ajmitch> most importantly, will it work with WoW? :)
<RAOF> But certainly not _supported_ 3d.
<RAOF> No.  Well, maybe.
<ajmitch> that's the only important 3D app I have
 * laga_ waves
<laga_> \sh: lounge metal is awesome
<slytherin> geser: persia: Please tell me if I should log a bug for this. The binary for libxstream-java is not present on archive mirror anywhere.
<persia> slytherin, Does anything depend on it?
<slytherin> persia: I think cglib, I don't remember exactly.
<persia> slytherin, apt-cache rdepends tells me there are none (at least for amd64).  It's worth investigating: file a bug if you are certain it shouldn't be gone.
<slytherin> persia: here is what apt-cache rdepends tells me - W: Unable to locate package libxstream-java
<slytherin> persia: also check this - http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=intrepid&package=groovy
<slytherin> looks like it was lost in moving to universe and then back to multiverse
<slytherin> slangasek: Need your help please. Binary for libxstream-java is lost. Seems to be result of activity you did on bug #268538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268538 in libxstream-java "Please move package to universe" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/268538
<geser> looks like LP was hungry again
<slytherin> not result exactly, side-effect
<geser> cprov: are you around? can you check why LP ate libxstream-java?
<geser> slytherin: LP likes to eat arch:all packages when they are moved between components
<slytherin> :-)
<slytherin> geser: I am wondering if I should check all other packages dealt under move to universe work.
<persia> slytherin, That's probably a good idea
<stefanlsd> Is anyone familiar with how bugzilla in intrepid is packaged? It extracts to individual tar.gz (seems like different languages). How do patches get applied in this case?
<ia> hello, everybody. could you tell me please, if i would like to use some ppa repo from launchpad, where can i get *.asc key for such repo?
<RainCT> ia: PPAs are not signed
<ia> RainCT: oh, thank you very much. that's why i can't find it. :-)
<james_w> DktrKranz: hi, it seems like you missed an open sponsor request open for xapian-omega
<james_w> DktrKranz: ah, no, you did know about it. Why did you keep it open?
<DktrKranz> james_w, gah! ... I didn't remember to have uploaded it. Sorry
<james_w> no problem
<slytherin> persia: cruisecontrol is going to be tough task. It has many build-deps which are not in Debian. :-)
<persia> slytherin, refresh me : why did we want that?
<slytherin> persia: not that we wanted it. It is one of the two packages on my radar. :-)
<persia> slytherin, Ah.
<slytherin> and as I said I am going to package it directly in Debian
<persia> slytherin, You've a bunch to chase at m.d.o before DIF then :)
<slytherin> persia: Let's see. I have made a call for help on debian java list.
<AnAnt> persia: Hello, I'm reminding you of sl-modem
<persia> AnAnt, When I rebooted today, I specifically re-enabled the modem in the BIOS as the first step to testing :)
<slytherin> does anyone know off hand the url to be added in watch file for apache projects?
<persia> slytherin, I don't think there's a mirror proxy for apache set up.
<slytherin> silly question, all the packages that are needed for clean target should go in build-depends right?
<RainCT> slytherin: yep
 * persia wants a Build-Depends-Source: header, but it would be Ubuntu-specific, and not very useful in most cases.
<slytherin> is anyone having trouble with seahorse not accepting passphrase for gpg key?
<Yagisan> slytherin, I did. I ended up disabling the gpg-agent in my gpg.conf
 * slytherin is doing same
 * Yagisan sighs. I wonder which bright spark decided to disable ifup -a
<Yagisan> there is a nice nasty surprise lurking in intrepid main now for anyone (such as me) foolish enough to be testing it on a server - last nights ifupdown update breaks networking.
<persia> It works for me.
<Yagisan> persia, have network-manager installed ?
<persia> Yagisan, Hrm.  Changelog looked like it was doing the intelligent thing.  Do you by any chance have network-manager installed?
 * laga_ blinks
 * persia sighs at timing.
<Yagisan> persia, not at all - hence bug #281984
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281984 in ifupdown "Updating ifupdown to 0.6.8ubuntu10 DISABLES STATIC IP ADDRESS BASED NETWORKING" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281984
<persia> slytherin, It's working for me.
<Yagisan> persia, I -er - wasn't impressed.
<persia> Yagisan, understandably.
<Yagisan> I lost my kvm farm :'(
<persia> 0.6.8ubuntu9 worked fine?
<Yagisan> yes
<Yagisan> if you must use network-manager - you'd think it would at least pull it in
<persia> Maybe just a logic error.  From looking at the changelog and associated mail, it appears like this was an attempt to unbreak ifupdown
<persia> Yagisan, You don't happen to see what in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18439221/ifupdown_0.6.8ubuntu9_0.6.8ubuntu10.diff.gz might cause the issue, do you?
<Yagisan> +	} else if (auto_disabled() != 0) {
<Yagisan> +		printf("WARNING: ifup -a is disabled in favour of NetworkManager.\n"
<Yagisan> +			"  Set ifupdown:managed=false in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf.\n");
<Yagisan> +		exit (0);
<Yagisan>  	}
<Yagisan> ^^ that stands out
<Yagisan> so - if I search up from there
<Yagisan> persia, this looks like it may be it
<Yagisan> +<<main functions>>=
<Yagisan> +static int auto_disabled() {
<Yagisan> +	static int initialized = 0;
<Yagisan> +	static int auto_up_disabled = 0;
<persia> Shouldn't "static int auto_up_disabled = 0;" mean it defaults to working unless specifically set to be broken?
<persia> It *should* be broken for systems with network manager installed, or it exposes bug #256054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 256054 in network-manager "[intrepid] new 0.7 branch ignores /etc/network/interfaces" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256054
<persia> Wait, no, I'm an idiot, and got caught by the same issue that probably caught the author.  0 is true.
<persia> Or, no, that's not it.  Ignore that last line
<james_w> +			int managed = iniparser_getboolean (ini_dict, "ifupdown:managed", -1);
<stefanlsd> Is anyone familiar with how bugzilla in intrepid is packaged? It extracts to individual tar.gz (seems like different languages). How do patches get applied in this case?
<james_w> the -1 is what to return if not found, e.g. the file is not there presumably
<james_w> isn't -1 == TRUE?
<Yagisan> persia, :/ it looks like it wants network-mager files - I don't have network-manager
<persia> james_w, That's one of the things that is language dependent.  In C, if I remember correctly, 0 is false, and non-zero (including -1, 17, 2432349827, etc.) are true.
<persia> Yagisan, Yeah.  I think maybe that section needs to check for the existence of the file, and if the file is absent, presume that it should just work.
<james_w> yeah, just checked, if it's not found "managed" will evaluate to true, so it will set auto_up_disabled to 1
<Yagisan> I just want it to not break the servers - network-manager is not in ubuntu-minimal, and if I get shockers like this - I'm less comfortable even testing new releases
<james_w> Yagisan: I'll put together a fix, would you be willing to test it?
<Yagisan> james_w, sure. server is amd64. when do you want a report back ?
<james_w> Yagisan: actually, can you tell me if you have /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf
<persia> Soonest is best (despite the hour).  With luck, we can fix it before people in NZ upgrade on Monday morning ...
 * Yagisan is .au
<persia> Yes, so you know exactly how soon some sysadmin is going to come in early to work on Monday and break the world :)
<persia> (about 4 hours by my count)
<Yagisan> james_w, no
<james_w> Yagisan: then that's not the problem
<Yagisan> persia, that was me ~14 hours ago
<persia> james_w, Hrm.  So why would "managed" end up true on a server?  I'm sure there's a logic error somewhere, but don't see it.
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/56681/
<james_w> that's the code I'm looking at, just to check we're looking at the same thing
<Yagisan> james_w, when I removed that file you asked for (this morning) I got networking back. I just did a quick check by touching a blank file there - and networiking went down again
<persia> Which file?
<Yagisan> /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf
<persia> That should only be there if network manager is installed.
<persia> If `touch /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf` is enough to break it, the check is clearly wrong.
<Yagisan> it was at one stage. long long ago.
<james_w> Yagisan: ok, so it is the issue
<james_w> Yagisan: are you happy to test from a PPA, or is a debdiff better?
<Yagisan> james_w, a ppa is fine
<james_w> Yagisan: cool, it will take me a few minutes
<james_w> Yagisan: would you adding the information that you have that file to your bug report?
<Yagisan> I gave up on network-manager long ago when it finished on doing dhcp for static connections
<Yagisan> james_w, editing it now
<james_w> Yagisan: and I would like it if you would remove some of the ALL CAPS parts as well, I don't think they are constructive.
<persia> james_w, I think I found it.  I think "int managed = int managed = iniparser_getboolean (ini_dict, "ifupdown:managed", 0);"iniparser_getboolean (ini_dict, "ifupdown:managed", -1);" should be "
 * persia tries that again
<persia> I think "int managed = iniparser_getboolean (ini_dict, "ifupdown:managed", -1);" shoud be "int managed = iniparser_getboolean (ini_dict, "ifupdown:managed", 0);"
<james_w> persia: yeah, that's the change I'm making
<Yagisan> neither was getting to spend sunday morning fixing the dammed servers instead of the other things I had to do. I'd have been roasted alive if I were to try and send a package like that to revu.
<james_w> Yagisan: yes, I understand your frustration.
<Yagisan> someone may want to adjust the Depends line so it pulls in network-manager as well considering it depends on it.
<persia> No, it specifically *shouldn't* depend on network manager.
<persia> If it does, the code should be fixed to not do that.
<persia> The problem looks like a bad default setting, but it could also be an issue with how dictionary.c handles a missing file.
<james_w> no, it does the right thing if the file is missing
<Yagisan> persia, the message it states is that ifup -a is specifically  "disabled in favour of NetworkManager."
<Yagisan> so a normal apt-get remove - not apt-get purge - will fail and hit this bug
<persia> james_w, OK.  Hadn't read iniparser_load yet.  Thanks for the confirmation.
<Yagisan> (?? when did motu start fixing main ??)
<stgraber> Yagisan: the problem is that the current code "thinks" that NM is enabled for your device and then disables ifup as you don't want both ifup and NM messing with your NIC at the same time
<persia> When you started complaining about it here :p
<Yagisan> persia, I should do that more often - it's so much more productive ;)
<Yagisan> stgraber, perhaps it should check for the network-manager binary as well as the config files ?
<persia> Yagisan, You could have said something in #ubuntu-devel, which is arguably the more correct forum.
<persia> Oooh.  That's a good idea.  Make sure the binary is installed, and *then* check the configuration.
<lucas> aaasaazaaza
<lucas> oops
<persia> lucas, wrong terminal, or escaped binary snippet?
<lucas> hanged terminal, but apparently what I was typing was still being sent
<james_w> Yagisan: you can see it building on https://edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/+archive
<james_w> Yagisan: please test once it is published, starting from a broken configuration
<persia> james_w, is that just -1 -> 0 ?
<james_w> I've replicated the issue here, and tested the fix
<james_w> persia: yeah
<Yagisan> persia, I could but last time I reported a bug, I got blown off to launchpad and #ubuntu
<persia> What do you think about Yagisan's suggested guard against apt-get remove?
<james_w> persia: makes sense to fix the immediate problem now, we can have a discussion on making it more robust when people networking isn't at risk
<persia> Yagisan, Depends on the bug.  This is fairly core, and easy to fix.  Ask something less important, and even here you'll get blown off.
<james_w> persia: it makes sense, but in theory this code should be robust enough to not need it. Defence in depth is reasonable though.
<persia> james_w, Well, considering that the default answer to "Network Mangler is broken" was "remove it" for quite a while, I wonder if it's really that uncommon that the config file is present without the binaries.
<james_w> persia: it actually breaks for those who upgrade ifupdown before network-manager currently, so we don't even need to look that far to find failure cases
<Yagisan> it's not. When most of my hardy boxes go to intrepid, all of them will have the network-manager config files, but not the binary
<james_w> persia: but now I see what you are getting at, and so yes, I think we should make that change
<persia> Yagisan, Yes, but you manage all those boxes, so it's only one data point.  james_w point that it will break for *everyone* is probably a better defense to get this sponsored.
<james_w> I don't think we'll have trouble finding a sponsor for this fix :-)
<Yagisan> persia, if I have the wife complain - does that count as two data points ;)
<Yagisan> huzzah - it built
<james_w> just waiting for it to be published
 * Yagisan twiddles thumbs
<Yagisan> james_w, it's installed. I'll be back in a minute or two once the server reboots.
<james_w> Yagisan: cool, you are starting from a broken configuration?
<Yagisan> /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf now exists.
<Yagisan> hopefully eth0, tap0 and br0 all come up.
<Yagisan> hmm - better idea
<Yagisan> james_w, sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart shows all interfaces up.
<Yagisan> james_w, it worked fine on boot
<james_w> Yagisan: thanks for the confirmation
<Yagisan> thank you james_w and persia for looking at the problem
 * Yagisan won't push his luck and complain about kernel bugs yet ;)
<persia> For those, you'll want to ask in #ubuntu-kernel : the likelihood any of us can solve them is a lot lower.
<Yagisan> persia, I wish I knew how to rebuild the intrepid kernel- I strongly suspect it's a libata problem - as the dvd-rw doesn't like the commands it's getting.
<persia> Yagisan, apt-get source linux-image-2.6.27-7-generic should get you most of the way there.
<persia> Yagisan, Also, please be more careful when filing bugs.  When finding a sponsor for the fix, th following comment was generated "the bugreport is a ranting chaos ..."
<persia> It's a very important bug, and it's great to have it fixed, but better to avoid that :)
 * Yagisan shrugs. my ranting bugs get fixed - my non-ranting bugs don't. I've taken to fixing whatever I can and bypassing the bug reporting system.
<persia> Yagisan, I guess, although in this case the rant *delayed* the fix.
<persia> james_w, On another note : thanks for chasing jd.  I'm curious though: do you read Japanese?
<james_w> persia: nope
<persia> Ah.  I had initially assigned that to myself, just because I figured I'd have an easier time testing, although on investgiation it turned out you had fixed it.  Fairly impressive, considering that there's a bug against it in Debian that the internals are in Japanese.
<james_w> yeah, I grabbed the wrong source package, so the ancestry is wrong in the changelog.
<james_w> luckily it didn't involve reading the comments :-)
 * Yagisan can read some, but not more than a 4 year old can.
<persia> Oh, is some of that Heinrich's changes in Debian then?
<james_w> no, it just no longer has the build1 entry
<james_w> there is an open sync request though
<persia> I saw that.  I'm planning to poke shibata about it when I next see traffic, but it's a holiday weekend, so it's probably not until Tuesday at the earliest.
 * james_w notes that there are a couple of jp-related sponsor requests open, perhaps good for someone with experience in that area
<persia> Yeah.  I'll probably hit the sbackup one in the morning.  Any others worthy of specific note?
<james_w> timidity was the other I was looking at
<persia> And that's even a source package I've touched before :)
<persia> Hrm.  I thought I fixed the init script already.  There's a fair bit of timidity work.  Thanks for the pointer.
<emh> I've adapted a workaround for an X server bug from kpowersave to xprintidle.
<emh> The debian/control file lists Milan Zamazal <pdm@debian.org> as the debian maintainer.
<emh> I'll submit a patch to the author of xprintidle, Magnus Henoch <henoch@dtek.chalmers.se>, once I've tested it for a while.
<persia> emh, Is there a bug in launchpad also?
<emh> persia: I don't know.
<emh> there is a bug here: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6439
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 6439 in Lib/other "Idle time will get reset to 0 after 20 minutes" [Normal,New]
<persia> emh, OK.  So there are three places you can fix the bug to get it fixed in Ubuntu.
<persia> You can fix it upstream, and Debian will get the new version, and then Ubuntu will get the new version.  It sounds like you're already planning to work with Magnus to do that.
<emh> Yes, that seems like a good plan.
<persia> You can get it fixed in Debian, in which case you want to open a bug in the Debian BTS, and submit the patch, so Milan can look at it.  It may or may not be suitable for Lenny, but at least Milan can make that decision.  It probably won't get seen if it only goes to Magnus until after the next release.
<persia> You can get it fixed in Ubuntu.  Submitting the patch (or preferably a debdiff including the patch) in a bug in Launchpad is the best way to request this.  Someone will evaluate, and maybe apply.
<persia> If you do open a bug in Launchpad, linking to the freedesktop.org and Debian bugs would be best.
<persia> So, the path to take depends on the urgency of the bug, and the amount of energy you have to spend on it.
<emh> Ok. Thank you. I currently have plenty of time and energy, so perhaps I'll pursue all 3 paths once I'm more confident that my changes work. It will be nice for learning about the processes involved.
<stefanlsd> Anyone know any caveats about replacing libcgi-pm-perl with perl-modules?
<persia> emh, Once you have something that works, you can ask here for help with all three processes.  We're going to be best at explaining about getting it straight into Ubuntu, but since we also send patches upstream and to Debian, we can provide some advice with that.
<emh> persia: Ok. Another thing is that the code I adapted from kpowersave is GPL but xprintidle is BSD, so xprintidle will probably have to be relicensed under GPL?
<persia> emh, That would be Magnus' decision.  It's unlikely Milan or anyone in Ubuntu would be willing to relicense.
<persia> emh, I'd advise finding the solution, and letting Magnus know you have a GPL patch.  Ask if he wants the patch, or a description of the behaviour.
<persia> If he doesn't want to relicense, he may want you to describe the solution in words, so he can reimplement it without having ever seen the other code.
<persia> That way there's no license question.
<emh> Clever :)
<stefanlsd> anyone care to sponser - bug #280641 - need to fix this before i can put a CVE into it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280641 in bugzilla "Broken package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280641
<james_w> stefanlsd: why is that stopping you from doing the update for the CVE?
<stefanlsd> james_w: i have the debdiff for the CVE already.  just it will need to be based on the updated version.
<james_w> why not roll the fixes together?
<stefanlsd> as far as i know, security fixes are just the security fix, no other changes.
<james_w> stefanlsd: only for stable releases
<james_w> stefanlsd: and a bug that prevented a security update from being installed would kind of nullify the point of the security update
<stefanlsd> james_w: ok, if i can do it in both, i'll fix the diff. thanks
<james_w> stefanlsd: do you know when libcgi-pm-perl was removed?
<james_w> what source package was it built from?
<stefanlsd> james_w: unsure.  but i suspect it was some time ago, from some of the other changelogs i've seen
<laga_> james_w: it's probably in perl-modules now..
<stefanlsd> laga_: yeah, it is
<stefanlsd> james_w: fixed the diff to include the CVE
<james_w> stefanlsd: what needs fixing in Debian?
<sebner> james_w: sry, I was ill the last days. will prepare ssmtp updates back to dapper tomorrow :)
<james_w> sebner: cool, thanks
<james_w> get well soon
<sebner> james_w: thx
<stefanlsd> james_w: what do u mean?
<james_w> stefanlsd: I don't see links to Debian bugs for either of the changes
<stefanlsd> james_w: seems like libcgi-pm-perl is still in debian, so not an issue. http://security-tracker.debian.net/tracker/CVE-2008-4437  - best i can find on the cve.
<james_w> stefanlsd: it might still be worth reporting
<james_w> the security issue is marked as fixed in unstable
<stefanlsd> james_w: will pass patches up to debian. yeah.
<james_w> they've got the fix then, so I don't think there is a need to forward it
<james_w> my dinner is ready now, I'll take a look after that
<stefanlsd> james_w: kk. thanks :)
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> can I still fix bugs in a package or is it too late now
<cbx33> sorry I've been a little out of touch lately
<stgraber> fix only is fine, if it requires a new upstream that also introduces new features you'll need a FFe though
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> it's only a tiny app
<cbx33> gisomount
<cbx33> I saw that some bugs were raised that I should ought to fix
<cbx33> I don't intend to add any new features
<cbx33> but i would be fixing these bugs upstream
<stgraber> if the new upstream is bugfix only, that should be fine
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> how long do I have to fix these bugs?
<stgraber> we'll enter RC freeze on Thursday IIRC, so best to have that fixed before then
<stgraber> but as I guess it's an universe package, it should be possible to send bugfix only even after that date (I don't upload in universe so I'm not quite sure about that though)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I can upload to universe
<cbx33> I think ;)
<james_w> stefanlsd: "debian/maintenance"? bonkers
<james_w> not your fault of course
<stefanlsd> yeah. first time i've seen that system also.
<james_w> stefanlsd: why ubuntu2.1?
<stefanlsd> james_w: yeah. wanted to check about that.  was either 1.1 or 2.1.  i was under the impression that .1 would be just a security update.  wasnt sure what happened if it had another fix with it.
<crevette> hello
<james_w> stefanlsd: that only applies for updates the stable releases. The reason it is done is so that it doesn't use a version number where the same version number would be in the next release, which would mean there wasn't an upload path. That doesn't apply here, so I've made it just ubuntu2
<james_w> hey crevette
<crevette> hello james_w
<stefanlsd> james_w: thanks. understood.
<crevette> I'd be interested if someone can review  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nemiver/+bug/262246
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262246 in nemiver "Sponsor request to update Nemiver to version 0.6.3" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<crevette> thanks
<james_w> stefanlsd: doesn't work for me
<james_w> Checking for          CGI.pm (v3.33)    found v3.29
<slytherin> crevette: ping
<crevette> slytherin: hello
<slytherin> crevette: nautilus-sendto seems to be broken for some people, showing error obex not supported. Any idea?
<crevette> hmmm no
<crevette> It tested with my deviceds ant it was working
 * crevette tries on its new phone
<slytherin> crevette: It shows error for me too but then nothing is working on my side so Ican not say only nautilus-sendto is broken.
<slytherin> crevette: does nautilus-sendto have depends on libbtctl?
<stefanlsd> james_w: what doesnt work for you?
<james_w> Checking for          CGI.pm (v3.33)    found v3.29
<james_w> installing the package
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/56776/
<crevette> slytherin: do ypu have any error when you run the command from the terminal ?
<slytherin> crevette: as I said bluetooth is not at all working for me. Probably hardware problem. So you will get no useful information from me.
<crevette> slytherin: it seems nautilus-sendto just use plain bluez dbus APoi
<crevette> API
<slytherin> crevette: Ok. I will let you know the bug tomorrow if I find it. Too late for me now. Got to go.
<crevette> okay good night slytherin
<stefanlsd> wgrant: mm. bleh. just did it in vm and get the same error. sorry.  from what i've found. bugzilla does want 3.33. perl-modules doesnt have it.  debian recommends -  libcgi-pm-perl which replaces perl-modules CGI.pm with a later version (we dont have it)
<emgent> evening
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<emgent> sebner: :)
<stefanlsd> bleh. james_w ^
<sebner> emgent: did you also participate at the ubuntu-it meeting?
<james_w> stefanlsd: yeah, you might want to find out why we don't have it
<emgent> sebner: no
<stefanlsd> james_w: kk. thanks. will try find out.
<sebner> emgent: what a pitty. Luca showed me the "I'm drunken because of the good wine" photos :P
<emgent> hahah
<emgent> i saw that.
<sebner> ^^
<rn114> hi, i'm having a play with creating .deb packages, and have successfully created a couple. however, having updated the sources i'm working from and done a few tweaks of the packaging no binaries actually end up in the .deb following running pbuilder on the .dsc
<rn114> could anyone think of an obvious reason?
<Elbrus> rn114: cleaning up the debian/files during the process was an obvious one for me the other day
<Elbrus> rn114: do you try to build multiple binaries from one source?
<rn114> Elbrus, im certainly not trying to
<Elbrus> rn114: maybe you can show your rules file in a pastbin
<Elbrus> !pastbin
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastbin
<rn114> yeah ill paste it up thanks
<rn114> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<Elbrus> thats what I meant... :(
<rn114> yeah :) here it is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56800/
<rn114> its quite simple, based off a dhbuild's production
<Elbrus> I think you commented out the dh_install was that intensionally?
<rn114> Elbrus, around line 79?
<Elbrus> exactly
<rn114> hmm, its a good point
<rn114> i'm just going to diff with my old version to check if i missed that
<rn114> thats the same as before, i think it should be handled by the dependency on install shouldnt it? that calls $(MAKE) install INSTALL_ROOT=$(CURDIR)/debian/mythtv and i think that should work
<rn114> its strange because when i run pbuilder it does all the compilation and everything (and seems to do the install step as well) but then the .deb just doesn't contain any binaries!
<Elbrus> rn114: I might be completely wrong, but either the install should be in DEBIAN instead of debian, or something like dh_install --sourcedir=debian/mythtv is needed (mind you I don't know the details of building yet).
<Elbrus> rn114: maybe have a look at the man-page of dh_install
<rn114> Elbrus, i think dh_install just copies a list of files and the make install command should handle that for me
 * Elbrus just tries to find out where the files are copied to for the build.. is that in debian/<package>?
<rn114> heres an example line from the build log file: cp -f "mythfrontend" "/tmp/buildd/mythtv-robin-18380/debian/mythtv/usr/local/bin/mythfrontend"
<rn114> this is were it copies it
<Elbrus> rn114: maybe you can also pastebin the build log? Just to see if I see something obvious...
<rn114> its almost a megabyte!
<rn114> i just cant really see much of a difference annoyingly
<Elbrus> rn114: sorry, I am out of ideas... Somebody else???
<Elbrus> one thing, shouldn't the INSTALL_ROOT not be DESTDIR? See: http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/html_node/DESTDIR.html
<Elbrus> s/not//
<emgent> norsetto_: o/
<norsetto_> emgent: \o/
<sebner> hihu norsetto_
<norsetto_> sebner, \\o//
 * sebner is scared. Why does norsetto has 4 hands ^^
<norsetto> sebner its the 2 heads which should be worrying
<ajmitch> sebner: that's the legs flying up as he leaps in the air
<sebner> norsetto: ^^
<sebner> ajmitch: flying ^^
<rn114> thanks for your thoughts Elbrus
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-05
<AskHL_> (please tell me if this is not the right channel for this kind of question) I'm new to packaging and want to make a .deb with a Python program.  I use dh_make to generate some template files.  So should I add those files to version control and change them by hand when making new releases, or run dh_make to make new ones every time?  In other words I can make a package, but how do I do this *practically* when subsequent new releases are involved?
<AskHL_> The question might be a bit unclear.  Specifically, the output files from dh_make: should I just add them to bzr (hosting on launchpad) and adjust them by hand in the future as needed?
<jmarsden> AskHL_: Sure, you should work from the debian/* files for future releases, not start over again.  if you add them to the project's bzr repo, make sure you do *not* end up including them in any source code tarball releases the project makes.
<AskHL_> jmarsden, thank you.  Then I might prefer to have two different repositories, one for the source (equivalent to tarball releases) and one for the packaging stuff.  Then I'll have scripts in the latter for actually generating the packages given a tarball.  Does this sound right?  (I don't want to reinvent the wheel too many times)
<jmarsden> AskHL_: You could do that, or two different trees within one repository.
<AskHL_> jmarsden, with bzr, a standard 'checkout' or 'branch' operation would consider just one 'tree', correct?
<jmarsden> AskHL_: I'm not a bzr expert, I think you can use different URLs to get different sets of files within one repo just like in svn
<AskHL_> jmarsden, I'll read up on the specifics.  Thank you very much for your help
<jmarsden> No problem.  I think there are docs on wiki.ubuntu.com specifically about bzr integration wih Launchpad, which might be worth your while reading, by the way.
<AskHL_> Nice
<jmarsden> AskHL_: One starting point might be http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/tutorials/using_bazaar_with_launchpad.html
<ari-tczew> !info gwget2
<ubottu> Package gwget2 does not exist in jaunty
<ari-tczew> !info gwget
<ubottu> gwget (source: gwget2): GNOME front-end for wget. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.1-0ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 223 kB, installed size 1344 kB
<Buuntu> what are some pre-requisites for joining?
<Buuntu> hello?
<Buuntu> is anyone there?
<Buuntu> is this channel dead with 210 people?
<ScottK> Buuntu: It's late Sunday night.
<ScottK> The European half are probably sleeping and the American ~half are probably mostly busy with other things.
<ScottK> The short answer is you don't need to join to start contributing.
<Buuntu> ScottK, could I have a few pointers though, if you don't mind?
<ScottK> You can ask.  I'm a bit busy with some other things.  I'll answer if I can.
<Buuntu> ScottK, I don't really know where to start :P.  I know a programming language but not even sure if that's used for MOTU
<ScottK> Buuntu: What do you know?
<ScottK> The only programming that's essential for MOTU is a bit of shell.  Bonus points for understanding Make files and any programming you can do.
<Buuntu> ScottK, basic python and some shell
<ScottK> Perfect.
<ScottK> Python is one of our preferred languages when writing Ubuntu specific tools.
<Buuntu> ScottK, so i've heard - one of the reasons I chose it
<ScottK> !contributing | Buuntu
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about contributing
<ScottK> Rats
<ScottK> Buuntu: See the contributing link in /topic.
<ScottK> That might give you some ideas.
<ScottK> Buuntu: Also, welcome.  I'm glad to have someone new, just a bit busy at the moment.
<Buuntu> ScottK, thanks
<Buuntu> ScottK, can I get a mentor for MOTU?
<ScottK> You can do it one of two ways:
<ScottK> 1.  Dive in and ask questions and people here will generally help you.
<ScottK> 2.  Ask for a mentor via the mentoring program and wait for someone to be available.
<ScottK> So yes, but i've no idea how it works.  I'm aware of the 2nd option, but know little about it.
<Buuntu> ScottK, so I have to become a member of the bug squad to join???
<ScottK> It's recommended, IIRC, but not required.
<ScottK> Any MOTU will have to deal with bugs a fair amount and so learning about it is not a bad idea.
<Buuntu> ScottK, so in your opinion what are the things I should learn about if I may ask?
<ScottK> You'll need to learn about the technical aspects of debian packages
<ScottK> You'll need to learn about Ubuntu policies and processes
<ScottK> You'll need to learn how we work together and be a part of things.
<ScottK> Part of that 2nd one is learning about how we deal with bugs.
<Buuntu> ok
<Buuntu> ScottK, ok, thanks - i'm going to sleep now
<Buuntu> i'll try to come here more often and see what I can learn
<ScottK> Buuntu: Good night.  Come on back when you're ready for more.
<ScottK> Great.
<porthose> would someone from MOTU-release please leave a comment on bug #442829 ty :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 442829 in srecord "Sync srecord 1.52-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442829
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp> good morning dholbach :-)
<dholbach> hi fabrice_sp
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<fabrice_sp> hey geser!
<highvoltage> good morning dholbach and all
<dholbach> hi highvoltage
<fabrice_sp> good morning highvoltage
<AnAnt> kees: Hello
<dholbach> AnAnt: kees is very likely sleeping
<dholbach> he lives in UTC-9
<AnAnt> he lives in a clock ?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> we tried to lure him out for years
<AnAnt> haha
<AnAnt> ok, I have a question about texlive
<AnAnt> I see ubuntu did a change to texlive-base
<AnAnt> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/t/texlive-base/texlive-base_2007.dfsg.2-4ubuntu1/changelog
<dholbach> try asking in #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> pitti might know about it too
<AnAnt> I suspect that Debian recently fixed this bug in texlive-bin instead
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> I filed this FFe: LP 440153, does it miss anything (except for subscribing motu-release) ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440153 in sabily "FFe: Add an xsplash theme for Sabily" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440153
<AnAnt> nhandler: Hello, it seems that dh-make-perl still has problem in dh_auto_test
<ebroder> AnAnt: there's a debdiff attached to bug #441950
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441950 in dh-make-perl "dh-make-perl 0.59 FTBFS since NO_NETWORK is unset" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441950
<ebroder> (It's about as simple as it gets)
<ebroder> Err...although Geoffrey forgot to include the LP closer in the changelog
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> ebroder: it's fixed in dh-make-perl 0.60 too
<ebroder> AnAnt: Yes, but we didn't feel like fighting FeatureFreeze
<AnAnt> ok
<nhandler> AnAnt: I saw the bug. It is on my todo list for today
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> can someone advise me about LP 440153 ? it is a branding package
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440153 in sabily "FFe: Add an xsplash theme for Sabily" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440153
<lucas> for patches for bugs in packages in main, which team should I subscribe for review+sponsorship?
<Laney> lucas: ubuntu-main-sponsors
<lucas> thank you
<lucas> subscribe, right? not assign?
<Laney> correct
<Lazy> hi, is there a chance to get bug #372040 fixed before karmic final?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372040 in electricsheep "Request Package of electricsheep 2.7 due to 2.6 EOL" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372040
<Lazy> the current version does not work because the servers have been shut down
<directhex> Lazy, unless someone prepares a package RIGHT NOW, unlikely
<directhex> Lazy, we're WELL past featurefreeze, so you'd need to rely upon ~motu-release accepting a new version before FinalFreeze
<hyperair> directhex: when is finalfreeze?
<directhex> hyperair, 9 days iirc
<hyperair> what?!
<hyperair> eh i hope our banshee FFe acks last past finalfreeze..
<directhex> October 15th
<ScottK> directhex: Final freeze for Universe is somewhat later.
<directhex> ScottK, oh? didn't know it had a different date
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> october 15th eh..
<hyperair> what an auspicious day..
<ScottK> Let me double check
<ScottK> directhex: For Universe it will probably be about the 25th, but we haven't decided for sure yet.
<hyperair> ah
<ScottK> Also for something like a screensaver, an FFe would be no problem at all if someone would have a package and prepare one.
<slytherin> directhex: is banshee 1.6 likely to mek into karmic?
<slytherin> make
<Laney> there's a 1.6?
<slytherin> Laney: I assumed there will be before final freeze.
<directhex> slytherin, there won't be a 1.6 before finalfreeze. the current beta is more stable than the current stable though, so i've been unofficially told an FFe would probably be okay probably to go for the beta in karmic
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I was wondering if you might have a look at fgfs-atlas as it needs a rebuild for NBS and fails to build.  It looks like the Debian maintainer started on it and got stuck: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=545593
<ubottu> Debian bug 545593 in fgfs-atlas "fgfs-atlas: FTBFS: Atlas.cxx:32:10: error: #include expects" [Serious,Open]
<ScottK> That one is definitely beyone me.
 * sistpoty|work shutters reading atlas in the name :(
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Different atlas
<sistpoty|work> ah :)
<ScottK> Atlas as in a compendium of maps.
<ScottK> It involves a flight simulator somehow, so it might need testing
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: I'll take a look
<ScottK> Thanks
<jdong> asac: hey do you have any ideas on that nspluginwrapper+compiz-no-mouse-clicks bug?
<jdong> seems like a pretty nasty one to release with :(
<asac> jdong: seems at least not reliably not work
<asac> so it works for me most of the time
<jdong> asac: strange; on my machine (fglrx) it fails with 100% reliability on youtube
<sharms> Can someone review lp #423755 for me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423755 in grsync "grsync does not start - GTK critical error" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423755
<asac> i saw it too ... but normally it works ;)
<asac> havent debugged it. was also hoping that we get 64-bit final shortly before release
<jdong> I see
<directhex> jdong, that bug is hellish
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep <-- still looking for speakers for open week!
<jdong> directhex: yeah, for me I have to turn off compiz to use a flash site
<jdong> directhex: and of course unlike KWin the compiz -> metacity switch doesn't preserve window/desktop layouts
<ScottK> More sign you should switch to KDE ;-)
<jdong> hahaha
<directhex> jdong, does it "just work" when you kill compiz? doesn't fix it for me, but i haven't tried restarting my session or anything like that
<jdong> directhex: for me a metacity --replace seems to make it work again
<slytherin> sharms: Did you change the indentation in the glade file? The debdiff shows too many changes.
<directhex> jdong, yeah, seems to work on my laptop... but killing compiz is not a fix in late 2009
<jdong> directhex: fully agreed
<jdong> directhex: have you tried the non nspluginwrapper 64-bit flash?
<directhex> jdong, seems fine on this box... but then i can't use any Air apps
<directhex> e.g. iPlayer
<AnAnt> ScottK: can you have a look at LP 440153 ?
<jdong> ah, right.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440153 in sabily "FFe: Add an xsplash theme for Sabily" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440153
<jdong> directhex: I seem to recall air apps working fine...
<directhex> jdong, air needs 32-bit flash
<jdong> directhex: at least I used the Pandora one under compiz
<jdong> directhex: oh it needs firefox's 32-bit flash?
<ScottK> AnAnt: Sure
<directhex> jdong, it certainly does if there's any interop
<AnAnt> ScottK: anything else I should add to this bug (other than subscribing motu-release) ?
<directhex> jdong, e.g. if you trick air into installing, then switch to 64-bit flash, bbc.co.uk/iplayer will just kill your browser, no questions asked
<Lazy> directhex: it would be pretty silly to ship eleectricsheep version 2.6 because it just does not work anymore. at least debian testing has new electricsheep package so it shouldn't be that big deal to upgrade ubuntu packages also?
<ScottK> AnAnt: I think it's fine.
<directhex> Lazy, see, that's a detail you hasn't previously mentioned
<AnAnt> ok, subscribed motu-release
<AnAnt> ScottK: thanks
<Lazy> i think the original reporter had menioned it in his bug report dated 5.5.
<directhex> Lazy, "fabrice_sp  wrote 7 minutes ago:" is the first mention of debian in that bug
<iulian> AnAnt: Approved.
<Lazy> directhex: sorry, i misunderstood that you meant that package not working anymore was first mentioned by me
<sharms> slytherin: the entire glade file was pulled from upstream version 0.9.2 because the old one doesn't work with our libglade
<AnAnt> iulian: thanks
<sharms> slytherin: so that big change is that patch replacing that glade file to get parsed correctly, and one change to POFILES.skip to ignore the patch itself when building
<slytherin> sharms: Is it possible to isolate the bug and fix it? It is kind of difficult to make sure that this glade file does not break anything else.
<sharms> slytherin: I didn't want to edit the file since upstream said that the file would fix the failure to launch, since I am not familiar enough with the program to edit the file better than them
<slytherin> hmm
<slytherin> Then I leave this to be reviewed by someone familiar with grsync code.
<ScottK> AnAnt: Your FFe is approved.  Please ping me when it's uploaded and I'll do the archive admin review (I can't do that if I'm the one that uploads it)
<directhex> electricsheep 2.7 does NOT work on karmic as-is
<AnAnt> archive = karmic new queue ?
<ScottK> AnAnt: Yes
<AnAnt> ok
<directhex> "flam3" needs to be synced first
<directhex> apparently it doesn't actually do anything useful for 10 minutes and this is normal (?)
<Lazy> directhex: if you run it first time it might be downloading the "sheeps"
<mok0> Is there a fix to ubuntu-dev-tools for jaunty?
<ScottK> mok0: What's broken?
<mok0> ScottK: pull-lp-source was destroyed by the recent upgrades to LP
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Is it fixed in Karmic?
<mok0> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> mok0: Simplest thing to do is ask for a backport.
<mok0> ScottK: But there's a dependency there that doesn't go well with jaunty
<ScottK> We can backport the depends too
<ScottK> That makes backports better for this than an SRU
<mok0> ScottK: ok, I haven't checked how far back in the dependency tree you need to go
<slytherin> What if the fix requires minor change
<slytherin> It should then be possible to do SRU.
<mok0> The LP upgrade also broke a whole bunch of debian/watch files
<mok0> "Thanks a lot, guys"
<ScottK> slytherin: Possible, yes, but since it's a dev tool and you need other stuff from backports already for Karmic development work, I think backports is OK and easier
 * slytherin has to leave. will login later.
<mok0> ScottK: I'll take a look
<mok0> ScottK: perhaps python-apt backports easily
<ScottK> mok0: I've recently decided to take a break from reporting LP bugs because it was taking too much time and the LP devs apparently didn't appreciate my sarcasm.
<mok0> ScottK: heh, well I guess they are stressed out already
<ScottK> Well if they'd just take a break from making it worse, we'd all feel better.
<mok0> ScottK: yeah... at least changing fundamental stuff like tarball paths and so on, they should be more careful
<ScottK> I could understand the churn back when they were < 1.0, but come on ....
<mok0> ScottK: at least, provide some kind of temporary compatibility with the old stuff
<ScottK> Yes, add the new, run in parallel, deprecate the old, and later remove it is pretty standard stuff
<mok0> ScottK: I have to say, I've actually become quite happy with LP
<mok0> generally
<ScottK> It's more stable that it used to be, so that's definitely good.
<hyperair> i can't say that. i can't change my bug statuses with the new interface
<hyperair> complains of some unknown error without even an error message
<mok0> They DO need to make it faster
<hyperair> they need to make it support git ;-)
<ScottK> This last update seemed to predominately make information I'm interested in harder to find.
<mok0> hyperair: Uhm, doesn't it?
<ScottK> Plus breaking browser compatibility with the one I use.
<ScottK> mok0: It can import from Git, but not use it.
<hyperair> mok0: i mean native git support, not translating everything into bzr.
<hyperair> i don't like the new change with the PPA webpages
<mok0> ScottK: Ah, yes, import only
<hyperair> i no longer see a list of my packages unless i go to +packages
<ScottK> hyperair: I agree.
<ScottK> The package pages are less useful too.
<mok0> hyperair: I've thrown the towel in... and started using bzr
<directhex> Lazy, the screensaver part of this does not work. i'm not sponsoring it.
<hyperair> mok0: noooooooooooooo how could you
<directhex> Lazy, just running it on the command line is working
<noodles775_> hyperair, ScottK : Please help us improve them :)
<hyperair> use git and i'll think about it ;-D
<mok0> hyperair: I am a traitor :-)
<noodles775_> hyperair, ScottK : I'd be happy to talk with you both about the reasoning behind the changes...
<hyperair> mok0: you're not supposed to say that with a grin on your face =(
<noodles775_> (we tried to involved everyone, but not many people responded)
<mok0> hyperair: ... it's out of embarrasment
<ScottK> noodles775_: Every time you  change the U/I, it doesn't matter if it actually is better or not, there is a substantial relearning cost.
<hyperair> sheepish grins eh
<mok0> hyperair: :-P baaaaaah
 * hyperair facepalms
<mok0> hyperair: I started using LP for a project and it is very nice for that
<noodles775_> ScottK: yes, and one of the *big* changes here (as you know) was to make the ppa index more for users of your ppa, rather than developers. Of course that means relearning for developers - which is frustrating.
<hyperair> mok0: i do like launchpad as a whole, but i really wish there's git support. bzr still drives me up the wall from time to time
<mok0> hyperair: yeah
<ScottK> noodles775_: We really need some stability
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: http://spooky.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~sistpoty/fgfs-atlas_0.3.1-1_fix_ftbfs.debdiff (can't upload from work though, -enosigningkey)
<mok0> hyperair: I have now learned how to be on pretty much the same basic skill level as I am with git
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: oh, I think I didn't adjust the maintainer field yet (my work box is not too good for ubuntu packaging *g*)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks.  I'll have a look
<sebner> sistpoty|work: I think you'll do excellent, TM sistpoty. EPIC FAIL
<noodles775_> ScottK: yes - the 3.0 UI changes were quite substantial right across LP, but will be much more settled now post 3.0.
<mok0> hyperair: however, bzr is more difficult IMO, because the huge number of different ways you can use it
<sistpoty|work> sebner: haha
<ScottK> noodles775_: Wasn't that also said after 2.0?
 * mok0 admits those PPA changes on LP has gone over his head
<hyperair> mok0: i miss my staging area.
<mok0> hyperair: huh?
<Lazy> directhex: well, thanks anyway for checking it
<hyperair> mok0: (talking about git)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: /me starts learning maths (yes, after the first 2 hours) ;)
<mok0> hyperair: ah
<hyperair> well at least there's git-bzr
<hyperair> but it isn't perfect
<noodles775_> ScottK: I'm not sure - I wasn't around then - but I believe you.
<sistpoty|work> sebner: good, good. /me didn't and flunked the first math test :P
<hyperair> i always did find bzr's revnos a little confusing. there can be more than one commit with the same revno, depending on which branch you're looking at.
<mok0> hyperair: yes! That is VERY confusing
<ScottK> noodles775_: Also I have the impression very little usability analysis was done on this new U/I.  I find many tasks take more clicks and are harder than they were before.
<hyperair> mok0: yeah, and so i still like my commit hashes at the end of the day
<mok0> hyperair: we're on the same page here
<hyperair> mok0: if there's one thing git seriously got right, it's this, imo.
<sebner> sistpoty|work: haha. Well, no one cares as you are still "threre" but I hope I'm doing better :P
<sistpoty|work> heh
<mok0> hyperair: yeah. I also think git is better technology, but bzr ... works
<directhex> Lazy, aha, fixed it
<Lazy> cool
<sistpoty|work> noodles775_: bugs.launchpad.net/<bugnumber> would be my absolute totally awesume super uber feature (as I never recall the url to a bugnumber correctly)
<siretart`> sistpoty|work: please ping me on your next break ;-)
<hyperair> mok0: did you ever see any of those "hai i've changed my repository version and now you can't merge from me anymore" situations?
<directhex> Lazy, you need to file a sync request for flam3, though. then beg someone in ~motu-release to let it in
<noodles775_> ScottK: We did our best to collect feedback based on the mockups - and went through a number of iterations (you can see the collected input feedback at: https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/Soyuz/PPAUI/Inputs)
<mok0> hyperair: ... and I really like the integrateion with LP branches.
<hyperair> mok0: that was what drove me to look at git.
<sistpoty|work> siretart`: ping ;)
<siretart`> sistpoty|work: it's launchpad.net/bugs/$no
<Lazy> directhex: what was the problem so i can put it in the bugreport also
<hyperair> er not the LP branches, i mean the whole reopsitory version clash issue
<noodles775_> sistpoty|work: launchpad.net/bugs/<bugnumber> ?
<mok0> hyperair: I don't think bzr actually would work with a huge project like Linux, with hundreds of contributors and thousands of patches
<directhex> Lazy, bad "--zoom 1" parameter in /usr/share/applnk/System/ScreenSavers/electricsheep.desktop
<sistpoty|work> noodles775_: but why not +bug or +bugs? My brain always tries these first :/
<directhex> Lazy, bug affects the debian package too
<sistpoty|work> (anyway afk for a moment)
<mok0> hyperair: It is acceptable with a smallish project like packaging or one with just a few contributors
<hyperair> mok0: i'm sure the bzr devels would beg to differ ;-)
<mok0> hyperair: actually, I think they tried importing Linux into a bzr repo and it didn't work
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> that's sad
<mok0> hyperair: saw that somewhere, in my random surfing
<hyperair> heheh
<ScottK> noodles775_: Another issue I have is the increasing use of icons.  I find it harder and harder to figure out how to do stuff (this in combination with the U/I churn is maddening)
<mok0> hyperair: one thing is that git is the fastest CMS around
<mok0> hyperair: AFAIR there's not a single operation where git is slower
<mok0> hyperair: some of the other CMS'es might be similar fast in some operations, but not all of them
<Lazy> how do i report a bug without lauchpad redirecting me all the time? :)
<mok0> Lazy: bottom right hand corner "Disable edge redirect"
<hyperair> mok0: heh that's not surprising
<noodles775_> ScottK: yes - the understanding the icons should not be necessary - they should be an aid. There are some cases where this was hard (eg. builders page).
<directhex> Lazy, a sync request you should use the "requestsync" command-line tool
<Lazy> directhex: ok thanks
<directhex> Lazy, unless you know to set all the required subscriptions by hand. without which a bug may go unnoticed
<mok0> directhex: does that work after the 3.0 upgrade?
<directhex> mok0, pass!
<mok0> directhex: I ask because some of the other ubuntu-dev-tools are broken
<hyperair> directhex: it still misses out on motu-release for FFes
<directhex> bleh
<ScottK> noodles775_: One example is I find https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/quassel/0.5.0~rc2-0ubuntu1 far more readable for build status than https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quassel/0.5.0~rc2-0ubuntu1
 * directhex declares computers to be "lame"
<hyperair> well they can't walk, so strictly speaking, that's true, yes
<mok0> ScottK: you're right
<mok0> noodles775_: the download section should go back to where it was
<mok0> noodles775_: ... the extra detail is nice, but it could be collapsed into an expandable section with a |> icon
<noodles775_> mok0, ScottK: that's all great feedback, but I'm not responsible for those pages, so it'd be *great* if you could put that info into a bug so it can get scheduled etc.
<mok0> noodles775_: which would make it render faster too
<noodles775_> (well, I could be - if my manager assigns it to me :) ).
<ScottK> noodles775_: I'm on vacation from LP bugs.
<ScottK> Feel free to copy/paste from here if you want
<mok0> ScottK: I'll do it
<mok0> ScottK: if you promise to "affects me too" it
<ScottK> mok0: Sure.  I'm reasonably certain that doesn't actually do anything, but I will.
<noodles775_> ScottK: :), will do.
<mok0> ScottK: what summary title do you want for the bug?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<mok0> Yo bd
<bddebian> Hello mok0
<ScottK> mok0: Whatever I'd pick would proabably be to sarcastic for their tastes.  I trust your judgement.
<AnAnt> dholbach: remember that Roland guy ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: do you have a little bit more context? :)
<dholbach> I might remember :)
<AnAnt> dholbach: when I had an issue with the attitude of someone who had a problem with sl-modem
<dholbach> ah yes
<dholbach> what happened?
<AnAnt> dholbach: he started another one of those (but with the upstream maintainer of an Intel modem chip) on linmodems mailing list
<dholbach> urgh
<dholbach> :-(
<mok0> ScottK: bug 443200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443200 in launchpad "UI usage regressions in Launchpad 3.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443200
<ScottK> mok0: Clicked.  Thanks.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Uploaded.  Thanks.
<mok0> noodles775_: done, see ^^
<noodles775_> Thanks mok0 :)
<mok0> noodles775_: you can still smile :-)
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: I also sent your patch to the Debian bug.
<AnAnt> bye
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: thanks!
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thank you.
<Lazy> directhex: how did you get that debian version of electricsheep to work?
<directhex> Lazy, by building it in karmic
<Lazy> ok
<Lazy> because i just tried downloading debian testing versions
<Lazy> it works from commandline but screensaver doesn't work
<directhex> did you fix /usr/share/applnk/System/ScreenSavers/electricsheep.desktop ?
<Lazy> i tried removing that "zoom 1"
<mok0> Can anyone explain this? gdebi tells me: Dependency is not satisfiable: python-apt (>= 0.7.9) but I have python-apt_0.7.9~exp2ubuntu10 installed.
<ebroder> mok0: ~ comes before nothing
<ebroder> So 0.7.9~exp2ubuntu10 is actually less than 0.7.9
<mok0> ebroder: I know, but:
<mok0> dpkg --compare-versions 0.7.9 le 0.7.9~exp2ubuntu10 |echo yes
<mok0> ebroder, hang on
<ebroder> mok0: That's not the invoke. It's dpkg --compare-versions 0.7.9 le 0.7.9~exp2ubuntu10 && echo yes
<RainCT> mok0: the dependency should have been on ">= 0.7.9~" to work with backports
<mok0> RainCT: yeah
<hyperair> mok0: it's && echo yes || echo no
<mok0> hyperair: yeah, I saw that after I pasted it here
<hyperair> heheh
<mok0> >< d'oh
<hyperair> i had to conduct a small bash course once, and that's what i came up with in order to show people things.
<mok0> hyperair: yeah, how dumb it is to pipe stuff into "echo yes" :-P
 * RainCT just uses  ; echo $?
<mok0> RainCT: ... ah, obfuscation optimized
<hyperair> RainCT: well i use that too, but it's easier to show beginners this way =p
<Darxus> So it looks like the hugin 0.8.0 merge is making it into karmic:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hugin/+bug/439396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439396 in hugin "[FFe] Merge hugin 0.8.0.dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Low,Confirmed]
<Darxus> What about the libpano sync it depends on?
<Darxus> Oh, there's another bug for that, checking.
<Darxus> I believe both of these bugs have recieved sufficient acks and just require uploads:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hugin/+bug/439396 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpano13/+bug/440177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439396 in hugin "[FFe] Merge hugin 0.8.0.dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Low,Confirmed]
<Darxus> (The latter is a dependancy of the former.)
<ScottK> Darxus: It has now.
<Darxus> ScottK: It has what?
<ScottK> Darxus: Sufficient acks.
<ScottK> The pano one needed a 2nd ack
<Darxus> ScottK: Ah, thanks.
<Darxus> So they need uploads?  How does that happen?
<ScottK> Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bugs and someone will review for that
<Darxus> Thanks.
<Darxus> Done.
<mok0> ScottK: there is a very long line of dependencies involved in backporting ubuntu-dev-tools
<mok0> ScottK: python-setuptools: missing
<mok0> python-zope.interface: missing
<mok0> python-zopeinterface: missing
<mok0> python-wadllib: missing
<ScottK> I think you'll end up needing most of them for the LP stuff no matter how you do it.
<mok0> Yeah... probably easier to upgrade
<micahg1> are there any rules for fixing FTBFS for karmic, or do I just go after a package?
<ScottK> You might mention here what you are going after so people don't duplicate work.
<ScottK> Other than that, not really.
<ari-tczew_> hello
<ari-tczew_> [18:55] [Nick] Nickname already in use.
<ScottK> Hello ari-tczew_
<ScottK> It's not there now
<ari-tczew_> my "ari-tczew" is already in use? wtf?!
<ScottK> If you get bumped offline there is s timeout period for the old nick.
<ari-tczew_> yhym
<rrittenhouse> What would the (smartest) way to upgrade PHP to a newer version on my Live Ubuntu Hardy server LTS server? Are there any PPA's?
<ScottK> rrittenhouse: This really isn't the channel for that
<ScottK> I'd ask on #ubuntu-server
<rrittenhouse> oo thx
<_ruben> nickserv can boot off your ghost connections
<ari-tczew> _ruben: thnx, but there is other problem
<ari-tczew> if I'm connecting at startup to 2 channels, then one channel can't connect me ;-/
<ari-tczew> I'm looking for ACK (complete FFe request): bug 427886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427886 in kadu "[FFe] Sync kadu 0.6.5.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427886
<Darxus> Hah, I just figured out that debian/patches = quilt.
<Laney> not necessarily
<Darxus> Quilt can't be used to patch Build-Depends right?
<ebroder> Darxus: quilt pretty much shouldn't be used to patch anything in the debian/ directory, only upstream source
<ScottK> Darxus: It can
<ScottK> Wait
<ScottK> Misread it.  What ebroder said.
<Darxus> Heh, thanks.
<Darxus> I'm playing with merging hugin 2009.2.0 (current upstream).
<sharms> fabrice_sp: Can you give me a hand with 423755
<hyperair> ScottK: could you look at bug #442328 please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 442328 in ipod-sharp "Sync ipod-sharp 0.8.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442328
<ScottK> Right.  I think I meant to ack that one yesterday.
 * ScottK looks
<fabrice_sp> hey sharms
<hyperair> thanks
<fabrice_sp> bug #423755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423755 in grsync "grsync does not start - GTK critical error" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423755
<fabrice_sp> oh this one
<sharms> fabrice_sp: yesterday you said you wanted a different approach, I cant see a cleaner way of just copying the file outside of a patch
<sharms> what would you suggest?
<fabrice_sp> I have to check both files, to see what is the real difference
<sharms> someone else said I should splice up the xml file and ignore spaces, but since upstream supplied it I dont think its proper to modify the xml directly
<fabrice_sp> the other approach is to have this file in debian, and copy it. But I also saw a comment saying that they could have regressions...
<fabrice_sp> Do you think it would be possible to have upstream indicate the line(s) that fix this specific issue?
<fabrice_sp> that would definitively be better
<sharms> fabrice_sp: the debian maintainer quit maintaining it, but the xml file itself we got from the author
<sharms> in the forum post: http://opbyte.freeforums.org/grsync-gtk-2-0-2-16-6-t112-15.html
<sharms> he advices we use this xml file as he regenerated it using gtkbuilder, and it is included in future versions
<fabrice_sp> I'll see later, if I can see something... Otherwise, it would be good to publish the resulting  package in a ppa, and assk for testing
<sharms> fabrice_sp: ok and just so we are on the same page, today if we dont change it it wont work at all
<fabrice_sp> have to go now. bbl
<sharms> so regressions cant be more than not working completely
<fabrice_sp> I know, but uplaoding something that won't work is not a good solution either :-)
<sharms> haha, I am not shooting for 'not work less' either
<fabrice_sp> could you just upload the resulting package in a ppa?
<Darxus> Heh.
<sharms> yup will do
<fabrice_sp> Hey Darxus. I saw your email. Have to lunch now. Will look after :-)
<Darxus> fabrice_sp: Thanks.
<fabrice_sp> thanks sharms :-)
<sharms> thank you for the time
<sharms> I am pretty sure with the current ppa build queues my test package wont be ready by release :)
<irvingpop> Hi, can someone explain the purpose of the Standards-Version field in the debian/control file?
<irvingpop> I'm wondering if it can be safely updated
<mok0> irvingpop: for lucid it should be 3.8.3
<Laney> mok0: see Debian policy, and /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
<Laney> er
<Laney> irvingpop even
<mok0> irvingpop: but you need to check that new policy rules are fulfilled in the package
<ScottK> irvingpop: Generally we prefer not to update standards version ahead of what Debian had sone
<ScottK> sone/done
<Laney> it refers to the version of Debian policy that the package conforms to
<irvingpop> Thanks ScottK and mok0.   I'm trying to eliminate lintian errors for the package I uploaded to REVU
<ScottK> dtchen: Since you TIL wvstreams: http://code.google.com/p/pathfinder-pki/issues/detail?id=26 (I'm working on the NBS from the transition)
<irvingpop> Mine is at 3.8.0, because that is what dh_make put in place
<ScottK> irvingpop: Is the package in Debian at all?
<irvingpop> nope
<irvingpop> I'm closing a needs-packaging bug I filed
<ScottK> OK, then make it 3.8.3 and make sure you follow the current standards.
<ScottK> irvingpop: You know this won't get into Karmic, right?
<irvingpop> OK, thank you :)
<ScottK> Now isn't a bad time to be getting packages ready for the next release though
<irvingpop> I'm just doing what I can to get my code contributed to the community
<mok0> irvingpop: do you have a PPA?
<irvingpop> yes
<mok0> irvingpop: k :-)
<irvingpop> I've published the package in my PPA already.   I'm under the impression that I need to put it in REVU to get the attention of the MOTU team and get mentorship/sponsorship
<ScottK> irvingpop: You might also consider trying to get your package into Debian then.  Once it's in Debian, it will automatically get sync'ed into Ubuntu
<ScottK> irvingpop: That's correct
<mok0> irvingpop: yeah REVU is the nexus of new package for Ubuntu
<irvingpop> the port to Debian would be easy,  I'm just not running Debian
<irvingpop> One more quick question.    Is there a way to get postinst  NOT to automatically start the init script?   I had to remove the #DEBHELPER# bit to stop it, but that makes lintian complain
<mok0> irvingpop: you can easily have a Debian chroot
 * mok0 seems to remember something about init scripts...
<ebroder> irvingpop: Go look at the arguments to dh_installinit
<irvingpop> ah, thats helpful
<irvingpop> so I could just change the rules file to  dh_installinit --no-start
<fabrice_sp> Hi. If I upload a package which will have a missing dependency, will it automatically build when the dependency will be uploaded?
<Laney> yes
<mok0> I think it depends in what way the dependecy is missing
<mok0> If it's a not-yet existing package, it will fail
<ScottK> It will either dep-wait and start automatically or fail and you can retry it at the right time.  No new upload would be needed either way
<surfzoid> Hi, i m a developer and i m building ubuntu deb of my software, what must i do to see them in ubuntu repository's ?
<randomaction> surfzoid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<surfzoid> thanks :-)
<fabrice_sp> cool. Thanks laney, mok0 and ScottK :-)
<surfzoid> hum, to be quick, is there here some people who know the OpenSuse Build Service ?
<ScottK> Not anymore than I can help.
<randomaction> If a *.h file from evolution-dev includes a *.h file from libgtkhtml3.14-dev, then evolution-dev should depend on libgtkhtml3.14-dev, right?
<geser> randomaction: yes
<randomaction> ok, I'll double-check and file a bug
<geser> you might also want to check if the pkg-config file mentions any other apps (pkg-config files) not listed as pkg dependencies for the -dev package
<randomaction> is it that thing that adds include paths?
<geser> yes, it lists the needed libs (-lfoo) and also the include dirs (-Ibar)
<surfzoid> Is there a build server in ubuntu world, like the OpenSuse Build Service one ?
<geser> surfzoid: if you want to get packages build for Ubuntu, look at PPA
<geser> !PPA
<ubottu> With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.
<surfzoid> geser: i think it will be incompatible with the client i add writed :-)
<surfzoid> http://monoosc.sourceforge.net/
<geser> what are you trying to do?
<surfzoid> I have write a client to the opensuse build server API, i try to see if i can extend my client to other build server
<surfzoid> geser: yu see ?
<geser> yes
<surfzoid> geser: so PPA is a build server ? and it have an public API ?
<geser> you can also access Launchpad (PPA is part of it) through an API too
<geser> PPA is your own repository where you can upload source packages (deb format) and get it build for some arches
<geser> you can access it also through the LP API
<surfzoid> at this time i guess there is existing client, web, cmd line ?
<sebner> hihu geser =)
<geser> hi sebner
<geser> surfzoid: for uploading the usual tools like for the main Ubuntu or Debian archive too (dput), for download you can include it in your apt configuration, and other things are currently done through a webbrowser (I don't know of any app yet using the LP API for it)
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, there?
<surfzoid> hum, oki, and you know if the API, use the REST technology ?
<geser> surfzoid: see https://help.launchpad.net/API for a description of the API
<surfzoid> oki
<geser> you first task would probably be to write mono bindings for it as currently only python bindings exist
<surfzoid> nop, it is write it use REST :-) so my actual framework is okay :-)
<surfzoid> just need to get the list of all url function
<geser> https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/
<surfzoid> after it will be like that : http://monoosc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/monoosc/MonoOSC/MonoOBSFramework/Class/Functions/About/GetAbout.cs?revision=200&view=markup
<surfzoid> in fact there isn't lot of unction to write, only this few one https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/#packageset
<surfzoid> :-)
<surfzoid> but they seem to many different to be include in my actual gui, i could use my engine framework and add this new urls, but need a complete new GUI
<surfzoid> **too many
<geser> surfzoid: I guess packageset is not the correct one, I think you need "archive" (a PPA is an archive) and "build" if you are interested in the state of the builds (and any logs of it)
<surfzoid> ho oki
<surfzoid> and packageset is for what so
<surfzoid> hey, suddenly there is more :-)
<geser> packagesets are/will be used in the main archive to control who can upload which packages (package sets) to the main archive
<surfzoid> oki
<irvingpop> OK, my fixed packages are uploaded to REVU.   http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/flashcam  and  http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/vloopback-dkms -- not that they'll go anywhere for a while
<surfzoid> some ubuntu developer speak C#
<ScottK> I think you want directhex
<ScottK> He apparently bleeds C#.
<irvingpop> Thanks for your help.   Feel free to hit me up when you start accepting packages :)
<surfzoid> hÃ©hÃ© yes :-)
<surfzoid> i spoke with him at #mono
<geser> yes, directhex is our local C#/Mono guru
<ScottK> irvingpop: It'll be The first or second week of November likely.
<irvingpop> is there an equivalent of -backports,  or can they only go into 10.04 ?
<shakaran1> hi, how to package a program for several distributions, i.e. jaunty and karmic?
<av`> shakaran1, if a package is on karmic already you can request a backport
<av`> for jaunty
<geser> or are you asking about how to do it in a PPA?
<irvingpop> For my bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/434883 ,  what's the best way to modify it to show that the work has been completed, just needs review?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434883 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Flashcam" [Wishlist,New]
<shakaran1> av`: No, the package isn't in karmic. I'm debianized a program and I like to make .deb for jaunty and one for karmic.
<ScottK> irvingpop: There is backports for after it gets into Lucid (10.04)
<shakaran1> geser: yes, for example on my ppa
<av`> shakaran1, if you wanna see it into the main archive, that's impossible then :)
<av`> shakaran1, you can have it on your PPA
<ScottK> irvingpop: The main thing is to upload the package to REVU.  That's where people mostly look for new packages.
<irvingpop> Thanks, ScottK
<shakaran1> how to do for my ppa? I have a debian/control different for jaunty and for karmic
<directhex> i'm about to go to the supermarket. Laney, hyperair, i choose you!
<geser> shakaran1: for your PPA upload it once targeting jaunty and once targeting karmic (with a slight different version, e.g. by appending the releasename to your version string)
<av`> shakaran1, different B-D / Depends?
<av`> shakaran1, anyway you can easily make two packages with different versioning, one for jaunty and one for karmic then you push it to your PPA paying attention to the target (to be set into the changelog)
<shakaran1> av`: yes, for jaunty I have depends pygtk(>=2.14) and for karmic  pygtk(>=2.16)
<av`> shakaran1, like 1.2-1ubuntu1~jaunty1 or 1.2-1ubuntu1~karmic1
<hyperair> directhex: uh what?
<av`> shakaran1, so you gonna upload two different packages with the changes on the control
<av`> shakaran1, is that clear enough?
<shakaran1> exactly
<shakaran1> av`: ok, now my problem is how to create a easy way for create .deb with the same directory of source
<av`> shakaran1, two different trees?
<av`> shakaran1, you don't need to have two binary files built, that's not what you want
<av`> shakaran1, you make a package1/ dir and a package2/ dir
<av`> shakaran1, you add debian dirs on them with the changes on the control file or whatever
<av`> shakaran1, you hack the changelog (e.g target, versioning)
<irvingpop> thanks for your help, guys.  talk to you in November!
<av`> shakaran1, you upload to your PPA
<shakaran1> my tree looks like:
<shakaran1> sandbox/
<shakaran1>   myapp-0.0.1/
<shakaran1>   myapp-0.02/
<shakaran1>   ...
<shakaran1> Inside I have the debian/...
<shakaran1> If I run dpkg-buildpackage where? On myapp-0.01 I cannot have two different control file
<shakaran1> (sorry for flood, on my message was only a line)
<av`> shakaran1, use pastebin
<av`> !paste
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com (or !pastebinit for CLI) | For pasting !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin Please give us the URLs for your posts!
<av`> shakaran1, usually we like to work on clean trees
<av`> shakaran1, so giving a dpkg-buildpackage at top level is not the way to go
<av`> shakaran1, give a try to pbuilder
<av`> shakaran1, anyway you should have sandbox/ then my-app-0.0.1/debian and myapp-0.0.2/debian
<shakaran1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/286470/
<av`> shakaran1, we have *two* different debian dirs into two source trees
<shakaran1> two? but how to choose for karmic or jaunty?
<shakaran1> some option like destination-debian-src-dir?
<av`> shakaran1, no, looks like you didnt read basic guides :) but anyway the target ( jaunty / karmic ) is set on the changelog
<av`> debian/changelog
<shakaran1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/286471/ this is wrong?
<geser> shakaran1: you can upload e.g. my-app 0.0.1-1jaunty with the control file for jaunty, and my-app 0.0.1-1karmic with the control file for karmic
<av`> shakaran1, how can you have two debian dirs into one source? :)
<av`> shakaran1, your tree should be:
<av`> app-0.1/debian/control --> jaunty
<shakaran1> ok, then, this is my actual changelog (only for karmic) http://paste.ubuntu.com/286474/ if I change karmic on some lines for jaunty it works?
<av`> app-0.1-karmic/debian/control --> karmic
<av`> shakaran1, if you change target to jaunty it will be built against jaunty
<shakaran1> humn...I understand...then several foldes, but for each version of myapp
<shakaran1> *folders
<av`> shakaran1, but you need to be sure you made the needed changes on control file as well
<av`> shakaran1, not several, two folders, one for each target
<shakaran1> yeap, exactly
<shakaran1> umn, I gonna try now
<shakaran1> the name for folder is app-0.1-karmic or better app-0.1~karmic?
<av`> shakaran1, you can use whatever name you want for the folder
<shakaran1> ok
<kklimonda> is it early enough to change application settings for universe apps? I'd like to remove a reduntant option from transmission-daemon starting script that just makes problems. should I open a bug about it for the later reference?
<Darxus> kklimonda: Open a bug.
<Darxus> I merged hugin 2009.2.0 from debian experimental:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hugin/+bug/443328
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443328 in hugin "Hugin: Merge new upstream 2009.2.0 from Debian experimental." [Undecided,New]
<Darxus> Is there enough chance of this getting in karmic that I should post to the hugin list asking for testing?
<arand> What is it that keeps changelogs lagging so much in publication?
<arand> Why would they be anything but simultaneous to package publication?
<shakaran1> I made a script for dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -kMYKEY, but I have to put the GPG secret password many times. How to avoid this?
<geser> use gpg-agent to cache your passphrase and/or only sign the version which you really want to upload
<shakaran1> Do you have some guide or tutorial?
<fabrice_sp> Darxus, as it's only in experimental, I'm not really confident... I would wait to have more feedback in Debian
<shakaran1> geser: I did this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/286527/ but it dont work. It ask me four times for the key
<fabrice_sp> hyperair, you will manage Bug #442328, right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 442328 in ipod-sharp "Sync ipod-sharp 0.8.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442328
<Darxus> fabrice_sp: Okay, thanks.
<Darxus> fabrice_sp: The Debian maintainer said I intend to upload to unstable as soon as the other hugin maintainers
<Darxus> have had their say."
<Darxus> Should have been a quote before "I".
<fabrice_sp> Darxus, when did he said that?
<shakaran1> geser: I use wrong gpg-agent? some mistake?
<Darxus> fabrice_sp: Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 19:22:14 +0200
<geser> shakaran1: you should also tell gpg to use the agent (use-agent in .gnupg/gpg.conf)
<shakaran1> where I modify the script?
<Darxus> fabrice_sp: What if there's nothing specifically holding hugin 2009.2.0 back from sid other than lack of response of debian maintainers?  And what if I get a bunch of people to test it?
<ScottK> Darxus: First question is why is it in Experimental and not Unstable?
<ScottK> Until you know the answer to that question, don't even think about it.
<geser> shakaran1: good question, I don't see an easy way to get it done in your script
<shakaran1> Here says: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/452 To configure gpg to make use of gpg-agent when available, edit ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf, and add a line use-agent.  Then, restart your session, and you should have gpg-agent running and the environment variable $GPG_AGENT_INFO set.
<shakaran1> Do I have to do this for work?
<shakaran1> or more things?
<geser> adding the option to your gpg.conf should be enough as you start the gpg-agent in your script (the gnupg-agent package also install a script to start it as part of your xsession if you have use-agent in your gpg.conf)
<Darxus> ScottK: I believe the maintainer just wanted to do some extra testing.  I'll ask.
<shakaran1> yeap! IT WORKS!
<shakaran1> THANKS!
<shakaran1> I love Ubuntu more and more each day
<slacker_nl> shakaran1: don't we all ;)
<Darxus> Heh.
<shakaran1> :)
<PMantis> Hi, #ubuntu doesn't seem to know, so maybe here... What's the "correct" way to update the symlinks in /etc/rcS.d while keeping dependencies in mind? There's a command that looks at all the init scripts and dependencies and creates numbered symlinks to be sure dependent items start at appropriate times... forget what it is.
<PMantis> That's supposed to be /etc/rcX.d. :-)
<ScottK> PMantis: Your inability to get a good answer in #ubuntu doesn't make this a support channel.
<ScottK> PMantis: Have a look at man update-rc.d
<PMantis> ScottK: Sorry, I'm not here to offend or interrupt. I have been *told* to go here in the past, and have been well-received and helped.
<ScottK> OK, well I gave you your answer in any case.
<PMantis> Also, as far as I can recall update-rc.d  allows me to specify what S and K number I want. I received that answer in #ubuntu.
<PMantis> However, what I'm looking for re-reads all the scripts at once, removed all the symlinks in rc?.d, and recreates them in order of dependencies.
<PMantis> I believe it is tightly bound to upstart.
<PMantis> If you don't know, thanks anyway. I did this for a customer machine with custom init scripts a few months ago, now I need to do it again. I should have kept notes!!
<Darxus> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootFromCD and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto should be much easier to find.
<ScottK> There are two dependency based boot systems.  One, done in Debian is strictly sysv init.  The other is upstarts, but it didn't do much until Karmic.
<ScottK> Not sure which you want.
<PMantis> Darxus, ScottK: Thanks, I'll look closer.. I'm actually making a custom live cd with my own services embeded, so your link is unintentionally relevant.
<PMantis> Darxus: Nevermind, either that wasn't meant for me, or you misunderstood. :)
<Darxus> PMantis: Wasn't meant for you.
 * PMantis found it: insserv
<jbernard_> I've attached a patch to bug #443241 that fixes the FTBFS, if anyone has time to take a look
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443241 in freetalk "freetalk FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443241
<fabrice_sp> jbernard_, please subscribe ubuntu universe sponsors. I'll ahve a look tomorrow
<jbernard_> fabrice_sp: will do
<jbernard_> fabrice_sp: thanks
<fabrice_sp> my first impression is that it may not be necessary to add a README.source and a patch system, but will have a better look tomorrow (within 7 hours :-) )
<fabrice_sp> bye
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-06
<arand> What is it that keeps changelogs lagging so much in publication? Why would they be anything but simultaneous to package publication?
<Darxus> Heh, there's a needs-packaging bug for launchpad.
<Darxus> Depends: autopano-sift-c | autopano-sift
<Darxus> ^ That'll install autopano-sift-c if it's available, and only autopano-sift if autopano-sift-c isn't available, right?
<jbernard_> Darxus: correct, it also allows another package to /provide/ autopano-sift and satisfy the depend
<Darxus> jbernard_: Thanks.
<Darxus> autopano-sift-c hasn't been packaged, but there's a bug open for that, and I'm just trying to eliminate the need for repackaging.
<Darxus> (hugin 2009.2.0).
<Darxus> Actually... it would be good if the hugin 0.8.0 package did that too :/
<Darxus> Nah, that doesn't matter.
<Darxus> Er, kernel packages don't have "kernel" in the package name anymore?
<Darxus> Ah, "linux-image".  Weird.
<quidnunc> Anyone know where I can find where a python package would specify that it requires version 2.5? I can't find any reference to it in control, just ${python:Versions}
<ari-tczew> dunno
<Darxus> Wow, kernel packages don't use quilt.
<JanC> Darxus: on Ubuntu kernel=linux might be true, but e.g. on Debian it might be "hurd" or "kfreebsd" too I think  ;)
<Darxus> JanC: Yes, I agree it's important to have "linux" in the package name, but I don't see that as a reason not to have "kernel" in the package name.
<Darxus> Although shortening the package names after putting the more useful "image" vs "headers" in there makes sense.
<JanC> I guess some kernel package names are too long already...
<Darxus> - NAME = Man-Eating Seals of Antiquity
<Darxus> ^ Ubuntu kernel package.
<Darxus> Wow, I just realized the kernel packages are fully synked from debian, no patching.
<Darxus> Okay, so I'm patching debian version 2.6.31-11.38 with bfs303, so does that make the version 2.6.31-11.38-bfs303-1ubuntu1 ?
<Darxus> Or just 2.6.31-11.38-bfs303 ?
<ari-tczew> Darxus: want you get patched kernel into ubuntu repos?
<Darxus> ari-tczew: Eventually.
<ari-tczew> I guess it's impossible :)
<Darxus> ?
<ari-tczew> eventually, you can send patched kernel on your ppa
<Darxus> Yeah, I want to build it and boot it first, since somebody else mentioned they managed to build it but it wouldn't boot.
<ari-tczew> yhym
<ari-tczew> or other way you can open bug for request apply patch (bfs303?)
<ari-tczew> btw. what about hugin? I saw that you're working on merge from experimental (?)
<Darxus> The bug is open, bug #424927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424927 in linux "[needs-packaging] include Brain <censored> Scheduler" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424927
<Darxus> ari-tczew: Yeah, looks like hugin 0.8.0 got accepted.  I merged hugin 2009.2.0 from debian experimental.  It's done.  But it won't get acked until I find out why the debian maintainer had it in experimental instead of unstable.
<ari-tczew> 0.8.0 needs sponsor
<ari-tczew> like a libpano
<Darxus> Hmm, I thought that would've been taken care of by now :/
<ari-tczew> not yet
<ari-tczew> if it's have been taken care, status should be a "Fix released"
<Darxus> Ah, right.
<Darxus> *Wow*, the debian diff against the linux kernel .orig is 295,602 lines.
<Darxus> Ah, this is ubuntu specific.  Weird that ubuntu isn't in the version number.
<ScottK> Normally for stuff that we know didn't and won't come from Debian we don't bother with Ubuntu in the version number.
<ScottK> Ubuntu doesn't use the Debian kernel, but packages it's own, so the ubuntu would be pointless.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you upload libpano to universe?
<Darxus> ScottK: Ah, cool, thanks.
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Perhaps later.  What bug?
<ari-tczew> bug 440177
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440177 in libpano13 "[FFe] Sync libpano13-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440177
<ari-tczew> ScottK: maybe you know, ubuntu now longer support epiphany-browser (gecko)? only -webkit?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I don't.  I'm a Kubuntu user
<ari-tczew> OK
<ScottK> ari-tczew: I just checked an epiphany-browser is in Universe for Karmic, so that is correct.  Firefox is, of course, still supported, so there's at least one Gecko browser supported.
<Darxus> Kernel compiles should display an eta.  Or at least percentage complete.
<ari-tczew> -gecko is out-of-dated. webkit is 2.28
<micahg> I found a dependency was not incremented properly in debian so now ubuntu doesn't knwo the correct version for a package
<micahg> what to do?
<micahg> ScottK: are you around?
<ScottK> micahg: I am.  What's up?
<micahg> It seems like kvpnc is FTBFS becuase the dependency on pkg-kde-tools was not bumped to 0.5.0 minimum
<micahg> we have 0.4.11
<micahg> latest is 0.5.1
<micahg> sorry, I'm on an overlapping wireless channel at the moment
<micahg> ScottK: any idea what I should do?
<ScottK> micahg: I'm not sure why that would cause an FTBFS?  In Karmic it will just use the version present and that's new enough.
<micahg> ScottK: no, the failure is because a needed file was added in 0.5.0
<micahg> or at least the build thinks it needs it
<micahg> I cannot ascertain if it's actually necessary
<micahg> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33004646/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.kvpnc_0.9.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> It's a valid packaging bug in any case
<micahg> so should I file a sync request against pkg-kde-tools?
<ScottK> micahg: I see what you mean.
<ScottK> I thought we had 0.5 something
<micahg> ok, hopefully that fixes my wireless issue
<micahg> ScottK: what did I miss?
<ScottK> micahg:What's the last thing you saw from me?
<micahg> (10:18:26 PM) ScottK: It's a valid packaging bug in any case
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  I also said that I'd thought we had 0.5 something and I see we don't.
<micahg> ok, well that seems to be the issue
<ScottK> micahg: This close to release, I don't think we want to do a major pgk-kde-tools upgrade.  Perhaps you can pull the missing stuff from 0.5, include it in your debian dir and modify debian/rules to look there.
<ScottK> Before there was a pkg-kde-tools all their stuff was kept in the debian dir, so in theory I know that can work.
<micahg> this is ridiculous, I apologize
<ScottK> Oh?
<micahg> my wireless droppiong like this
<micahg> so, what should I do?
<ScottK> [23:24:19] <ScottK> micahg: This close to release, I don't think we want to do a major pgk-kde-tools upgrade.  Perhaps you can pull the missing stuff from 0.5, include it in your debian dir and modify debian/rules to look there.
<ScottK> [23:24:46] <ScottK> Before there was a pkg-kde-tools all their stuff was kept in the debian dir, so in theory I know that can work.
<ScottK> micahg: Get it that time?
<micahg> yes
<micahg> it's a perl module that's missing
<micahg> so, I should include that in the kvpnc package?
<ScottK> micahg: I'd try that first
<micahg> hmm, I've never done this before, but I'll give it a shot, might take me a day or two
<ScottK> OK
<Darxus> Achieving what I believe is a good clean merge from debian is an exciting first for me, as simple as it was.  Two lines.
<micahg> nevermind, I should probably just use it and not install it
<ScottK> Darxus: Doing a lot is easy.  Being minimally invasive is a challenge.
<Darxus> Heh.
<fabrice_sp_> ScottK, do you think you will have time to upload Bug #440177?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440177 in libpano13 "[FFe] Sync libpano13-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440177
<fabrice_sp_> just to know if I retain hugin 0.8.0 upload until it's uploaded or not
<ScottK> fabrice_sp_: I'm looking at it now.
<fabrice_sp_> cool. thanks :-)
<ScottK> I thought you uploaded hugin already?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp_: It's building now.  It ought to be in the archive to build against in ~75 minutes on the fast archs.
<fabrice_sp_> ScottK, I just wanted to build it locally, just to be sure it builds fine, and run fine
<ScottK> OK.
<fabrice_sp_> will test it today then :-) Thanks!
<fabrice_sp_> (again :-) )
<ScottK> OK.
<micahg> ScottK: ok, I think I got it
<micahg> test build in my ppa in an hour hopefully
<fabrice_sp_> hyperair, do you really needs sponsoring for bug #442328? :-D
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 442328 in ipod-sharp "Sync ipod-sharp 0.8.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442328
<hyperair> fabrice_sp_: sure i do. from an archive admin, that is =)
<hyperair> i've got motu-release ACKs and uus ACK from directhex
<fabrice_sp_> uus? ahh: I thought you were a MOTU :-/
<fabrice_sp_> my bad :-)
<fabrice_sp_> I've just subscribed archive-admin
<dholbach> good morning
<fabrice_sp_> good morning dholbach !
<dholbach> hola fabrice_sp_
<mase_wk> hey guys i have a kernel packaging question, is this the appropriate place to ask ?
<dholbach> #ubuntu-kernel will probably give you better answers :)
<mase_wk> dholbach: hmm I've asked numerous times in the channel and the mailing list for the ubuntu-kernel and everyone ignores it so I assumed it was the incorrect place to ask. Will try agin. Thanks
<dholbach> they might be sleeping now
<swoody> porthose, ping
<porthose> swoody, pong
<swoody> porthose, just got your email
<mase_wk> dholbach: since this is for business use , do you know if there a canonical support option where I would be able to ask packaging questions ?
<porthose> swoody, is emgent still mentoring you?
<swoody> porthose, I haven't been under MOTU mentoring, for quite a long time. Last I remember something was going on with my original mentor (Pablo I believe?) I don't know what happened, but everything just kind of fell apart from there
<swoody> I don't remember anyone by the name of emgent, though
<dholbach> mase_wk: can you drop me an email about it - I can make sure your query reaches the right hands - atm I don't know
<dholbach> mase_wk: dholbach at ubuntu dot com
<swoody> so short answer, no I'm not a mentee, but I would still be interested in becoming a MOTU, still.
<mase_wk> dholbach: ok thanks.
<micahg1> ScottK: you wouldn't happen to still be up, would you?
<logari81> I am looking for documentation on:
<logari81> /usr/share/python-support/python-foo.public
<logari81> I think it is something new in the last version of dh_pysupport
<logari81> is it right?
<POX> logari81: /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz (what's not there, you should not touch)
<surfzoid> Hi, i have finally build deb successfully, now i add this source in synaptic source in ubuntu ? http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/surfzoid:/DebianUbuntu/xUbuntu_9.04/
<surfzoid> ** how
<directhex> surfzoid, deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/surfzoid:/DebianUbuntu/xUbuntu_9.04/ ./
<directhex> surfzoid, i think
<surfzoid> ha yes i dont think about ./, the proble was amd64-binary :-)
<directhex> jms@osc-franzibald:~/Desktop/mitter-0.4.5$ apt-cache policy monoosc | grep Candidate
<directhex>   Candidate: 1.0.2.0
<directhex> seems to work
<surfzoid> directhex: work like a charm :-)
<surfzoid> directhex: again :-), the repository is added without error, but i don't see my soft in synaptic
<directhex> surfzoid, synaptic's always been a bit funny for me. can't make any suggestions
<Laney> did you reload the index? (I think that's synaptic terminology)
<surfzoid> i used the refresh cache/aviabe pkg function
<surfzoid> hum, the update tool see some pkg of my repo !!
<surfzoid> seem to be an author problem, pkg are not authentified !! what can i do ?
<surfzoid> directhex: I'm confuse, my deb are now build, but when i install MonoOSC it don't install SyntaxHighlighting, after, the SyntaxHighlighting.dll and MonoOBSFramework.dll are not register in the gac, if i look at the mono build deb file, it have only the dsc one, and it work ....
<surfzoid> how i register the dll in the gac and how the dep list is made !!
<directhex> surfzoid, there's a helper script in the cli-common-dev package, which you should build-depend on, to insert GAC-related things into a package's postinst
<directhex> surfzoid, adding dh_installcligac to the "install" rule in debian/rules will install any assemblies listed in debian/packagename.installcligac into the GAC when the package is installed
<surfzoid> build-depend is not only the build requiere but also the requiere ?
<j_20091> hello all
<j_20091> i am looking for an mentor
<directhex> surfzoid, Build-Depends are listed in debian/control as the packages which the compilation machine needs to install in order to compile the packages. as opposed to Depends, which specify things which should be installed automatically for the binary package to work for the end user
<surfzoid> oki
<directhex> surfzoid, usually for mono packages you can autogenerate the binary dependencies using "dh_clideps" in the "binary" rule in debian/rules, which will expand ${cli:Depends} in debian/control with auto-detected dependencies
<directhex> maco, you even got a personal mention from Mikee! lucky you! Â¬_Â¬
<directhex> he can't spell though
<ari-tczew> hello, I'm looking sponsor for universe to 2 bugs
<porthose>  ari-tczew https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
 * mok0 just upgraded his workstation to karmic. That was a harrowing experience
<MaikB78> Hello
<MaikB78>  Am I correct that debian packages build from svn trunk's are meant to define the get-orig-source rule to checkout(actually export) and tar.gz the trunk?
<ScottK> Yes
<MaikB78> ok
<MaikB78> but how to do it with cdbs?
<MaikB78> I came across this: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=494141
<ubottu> Debian bug 494141 in cdbs "no way to use get-orig-source with cdbs without breaking policy" [Normal,Open]
<MaikB78> which gives me the impression cdbs doesn't work with the get-orig-source hook
<joaopinto> MaikB78, it does, just not as expected, from any dir
<MaikB78> joaopinto: I fear I didn't get what exactly you mean.  Are there examples around?
<MaikB78> I did this stuff a lot in gentoo and arch.  I'd love to get it work on ubuntu/debian
<MaikB78> by example I mean:  Which if the *~svn1234 packages are using cdbs?
<bdrung_> doko: do you have eclipse already uploaded?
<joaopinto> MaikB78, read the bug details, you can have a get-orig-source with cdbs however it will not work when invoked out of the source tree
<doko> bdrung_: yes, but we can still update
<bdrung_> doko: did you grab it from the git repo or from the ppa?
<doko> bdrung_: ppa
<MaikB78> joaopinto: will, thx again!
<bdrung_> doko: did you adjust the changelog?
<doko> bdrung_: what do you mean?
<doko> bdrung_: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-October/010369.html
<bdrung_> doko: did you upload it with -0~ppa1?
<bdrung_> doko: fyi, i can upload to universe, too
<doko> bdrung_: ok, the next uploads are yours!
<bdrung_> doko: which value does DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU have on lpia?
<doko> i686
<doko> bdrung_: I did attach a patch to my email
<bdrung_> doko: yes, saw it. that's why i asked
<bdrung_> doko: we have only i386 and amd64 machines and no access to others.
<bdrung_> doko: the main discussions are in #debian-java and some are in #eclipse-linux
<doko> bdrung_: I know
<ScottK> bdrung_: Canonical employees have access to porter boxes in other archs.  sistpoty|work or siretart may be able to arrange MOTU access to Sparc.
<sistpoty|work> doko: btw, thanks a lot for working on maven! :)
<doko> sistpoty|work: I won't write the FFe's .. so either you find somebody to approve, or we won't make it. also I didn't check yet for other deps of the packages listed
<doko> sistpoty|work: so better pester ScottK & co ;)
<sistpoty|work> doko: ScottK just gave an ack for the FFe ;)
<doko> ScottK: any plans with xz-utils? else I'd like to upload the fix for the data corruption
<bdrung_> doko: fix applied, thanks.
<ScottK> doko: Please fix that.
<ScottK> We looked at updating to beta 9, but it was just to get that fix, so if you can just do the bug fix, that's better.
<MaikB78> right now I'm looking at kile's packaging scripts where it seems uscan is used via debian/watch for the svn checkout of the original sources.  Is there a nice wiki page about uscan?
<surfzoid> directhex: make: dh_installcligac: Command not found ?
<directhex> surfzoid, it's in cli-common-dev
<surfzoid> so in to add in dep buil
<surfzoid> thanks
<MaikB78> I guess this is the right one for uscan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
<maco> directhex: yes i know
<maco> directhex: on one blog i replied to him "If you can't learn to spell my name, AT LEAST learn to copy and paste it!"
<directhex> maco, seems a bit of a knob, tbh
<arand> What are the policies for priority of security updates, there was someone who asked why a security update could be priority:low and I became curious about that as well...
<maco> directhex: he has a TON of fake names, by the way
<maco> directhex: i'm pretty sure you hit a fake one
<directhex> maco, he's rather slippery. tor doesn't help.
<maco> directhex: PM?
<directhex> hm? oh, yes, getting a bit offtopic
<jdstrand> arand: are you referring to the 'urgency' field in the changelog?
<slacker_nl> yeah, what about that field, it is always "low"
 * slacker_nl is curious as well
<arand> jdstrand: not perfectly sure to be honest, I would think so.
<jdstrand> it means nothing in Ubuntu. it is used in Debian to prioritize builds iirc
<slacker_nl> aha
<slacker_nl> why doesn't ubuntu use it? Is it not handy to b eable to prioritize builds?
<jdstrand> we have a different build system
<jdstrand> security builds are given the highest priority
<james_w> it's not buildds as such, but testing migration
<directhex> urgency is mostly for unstable->testing isn't it?
<james_w> and we don't have a "testing" suite
<directhex> aha, thought so. HIGH FIVE!
<slacker_nl> ahh, k
<jdstrand> james_w: interesting-- so that field was introduced when 'testing' first came about?
<jdstrand> what was that... wodody?
<james_w> I believe so
<jdstrand> woody
<jdstrand> cool
<james_w> it may be used for builds as well, but that's not it's main purpose
 * jdstrand learned something new :)
<james_w> it is in fact used for build priorities in Ubuntu, but no-one ever sets it
<maco> haha
<directhex> urgency=OMG
<jdstrand> james_w: I was always told it was ignored in Ubuntu. when did this change?
<slacker_nl> hehehe
<arand> jdstrand: hmm, yea, and it looks like that string is removed in jaunty update manager anyways...
<james_w> and you're only talking a matter of hours at the most
<james_w> jdstrand: no idea
<sistpoty|work> directhex: urgency=EMERGENCY :P
 * jdstrand considers letting james_w field this sorts of questions
<jdstrand> file:///usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Urgency
<jdstrand> that should've been http...
<arand> Yea, launchpad help says it will effect build priority, but by a minuscule bit iirc
<jdstrand> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Urgency
<jdstrand> and there you go:
<jdstrand> 36
<jdstrand> Other urgency values are supported with configuration changes in the archive software but are not used in Debian. The urgency affects how quickly a package will be considered for inclusion into the testing distribution and gives an indication of the importance of any fixes included in the upload. Emergency and critical are treated as synonymous.
<james_w> we should at least have it so that PPAs with urgency=emergency always score below main archive builds, so that can't DoS Ubuntu
<arand> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores
<directhex> james_w, how about urgency=prettyplease where a PPA gets >archive priority due to politeness?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<arand> low-5 med-10 high-15 emergency-20
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<arand> But then the priority has nothing to do with the contents of the package? Only with the build priority?
<jdstrand> interesting. I am pretty sure that is new (at least from when I was told)
 * jdstrand wonders if one used '-security' in their PPA if the build score would be 6000
<bdrung_> doko: we need an updated cdt, too.
<arand> james_w: "There are separate build queues for distributions and PPAs." ( https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores ) Does that already solve the DoS problem?
<james_w> probabl
<doko> bdrung_: yes
<jdstrand> arand, james_w: there are official builders for Ubuntu that are separate from PPA builders
<bdrung_> doko: is there someone, who maintains it?
<jdstrand> it is designed so one can't does Ubuntu via a PPA builders
<jdstrand> s/does/DoS/
<doko> bdrung_: no, just synced from debian
<MaikB78> Am I right that uscan doesn't know how to extract a tar.gz from a git repo?
<ari-tczew> if you've got "debian  uupdate" in debian/watch, then uscan can extract file
<MaikB78> ok, I'll read the man page on uupdate
<joaopinto> I am puzzled about apparmor-profiles, it's on universe but maintaned by coredevs, is that expected ?
<joaopinto> aren't all universe packages MOTU maintained ?
<ari-tczew> dunno
<sistpoty|work> joaopinto: source is in main, maybe some archive inconsistency
<MaikB78> ari-tczew: I confused by this get-orig-source vs uscan (debian/watch) business regarding fetching sources from the upstream VCS.
<MaikB78> It there a golden way to do it?
<ari-tczew> I prefer to updating packages manually, so I can't help you now.
<joaopinto> sistpoty|work, ah ok, the binary is on universe
<MaikB78> mkay
<MaikB78> ari-tczew: thx
<joaopinto> sistpoty|work, should I file a bug report about it ?
<kees> jdstrand: that's an interesting thought.
<sistpoty|work> joaopinto: no need to. afaict archive-admins have tools to detect such inconsistencies and fix them
<joaopinto> ok
<sistpoty|work> (so they're at least aware of it)
<ari-tczew> sistpoty: maybe you know what about epiphany-gecko? is it no longer support by karmic? only -webkit?
<sistpoty|work> ari-tczew: no idea about epiphany, sorry
<ari-tczew> yhym so what the persion who know?
<sebner> ari-tczew: it has been ported to -webkit by GNOME folks. gecko = dead
<ari-tczew> I need info whether I should support gecko on webkit
<ari-tczew> yhym so I should support webkit
<ari-tczew> sebner: are you know that debian too drop support for gecko?
<sebner> ari-tczew: unstable yes, testing no
<ari-tczew> OK ;-)
<ari-tczew> thnx
<ari-tczew> who knows about forwarding packages to Debian?
<ari-tczew> non-maintainer-upload vs new upstream version...
<ari-tczew> .
<surfzoid> directhex: me again :-), where are the rules for "make: *** No rule to make target `dh_clideps', needed by `binary'.  Stop"  ?
<surfzoid> or perhaps i put it at the bad place :-/
<joaopinto> surfzoid, you are missing a tab, to put inside the rule
<surfzoid> hum i put it in the rule file like that : binary: binary-indep binary-arch dh_clideps
<surfzoid> joaopinto: ^ i think i just understand , it was in the rule "binary-arch" i must add it :-)
<Laney> what happens to motu-council after archivereorg?
<ari-tczew> kees: are you here?
<kees> ari-tczew: yup
<ari-tczew> could you tell me what we can't get drupal 5.2.0 into karmic? why only small patches?
<kees> ari-tczew: from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule we are in "FeatureFreeze".  If you want to get 5.2.0 into karmic, you'd need to follow the exception process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<ari-tczew> so debdiff with small patches are easier get into karmic?
<ari-tczew> I can prepare it
<kees> ari-tczew: correct; if they are limited bug-fix patches, it's easy to upload
<ari-tczew> I'll include only patches fixing critical security vulnerability
<ari-tczew> anyone knows what about maven?
<ari-tczew> any news?
<directhex> woo woo
<randomaction> thanks for merging hugin guys
<funkyHat> I've got a fix for bug #444750 but there are a few other obvious keyboard shortcuts that are missing. Should I just fix them and add them to the same patch, or file a separate bug?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444750 in gpaint "[papercut] CTRL-V doesnt paste in gpaint" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444750
<joaopinto> funkyHat, I am not a MOTU, but mu oppinion is a single bug, to reduce administrative work, assuming you use standard bindings which are not subject of debate :P
<fabrice_sp_> funkyHat, agree with joaopinto
<chrisccoulson> funkyHat - if there are others missing and you can fix them easily, then please do it all in one bug :)
<funkyHat> Ok, I will add ^X, ^A, ^Q, ^W, ^O and ^P then, hehe
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<Laney> please send the fixes upstream too
<funkyHat> Will do
<micahg> ScottK: kvpnc built fine with debhelper kde disabled
<jbernard_> fabrice_sp_: I posted an update for bug #443241
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443241 in freetalk "freetalk FTBFS" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443241
<av`> fabrice_sp_, I don't think adding a patch system is bad
<av`> fabrice_sp_, patching the files that way will make losing the changes at the next upstream release, plus it will be harder for the next uploader to catch the changes
<av`> fabrice_sp_, saying the debdiff looks bigger is not a good motivation to reject a patch system IMO
<jbernard_> you guys tell me, i have patches for both solutions
<av`> fabrice_sp_, making the patch and forwarding it to debian is the way to go
<av`> jbernard_, this is my personal opinion, fabrice_sp_ might think it different ;)
<jbernard_> both solutions are attached to the bug, so you're free to choose
<Viking667> hm. What's "MOTU" stand for?
<lesshaste> I need to apply a patch to X. Is there a simple guide to patching and recompiling X for ubunt
<lesshaste> u
<geser> Viking667: Masters Of The Universe
<Viking667> lol. Right. Kind of makes sense in a warped kind of way.
<fabrice_sp_> jbernard_, av` I already had that discussion, and it's generally prefered not to add a patch system. It's general consensus.
<av`> fabrice_sp_, we are not doing NMUs here
<fabrice_sp_> av`, I know
<fabrice_sp_> but we are not also here to redo all the debian packaging
<fabrice_sp_> as I said before, it's a general consensus
<av`> fabrice_sp_, redo? two changes are a redo?
<av`> fabrice_sp_, saying the debdiff looks bigger / increase the difference between debian and ubuntu is not true and it's not a good motivation either
<fabrice_sp_> it clearly increase the diff with debian, so will make a bit more 'coplex' the merge, if any
<av`> fabrice_sp_, the first suggestion should be forward it to debian to have it applied then
<fabrice_sp_> when I was sponsored, this is what I've been told by several sponsors. It's not my invention
<fabrice_sp_> or both: apply in Ubuntu, and also forward
<fabrice_sp_> it's just a matter of taste
<av`> fabrice_sp_, having a package that will show changes to the source won't be the best to merge anyway
<av`> moreover if it's not the only change and if the changelog is not well documented
<av`> someone can mess everything up
<fabrice_sp_> a debdiff will contains the same line, but in a different way
<av`> fabrice_sp_, how do I know that a particular change to the source fixes Bug xx or Bug xxx?
<av`> everything will be mixed up
<fabrice_sp_> most of the time, Debian maintainer already did changes in the source
<fabrice_sp_> I don't remember if it's the case of this particular package
<av`> saying most of the case don't solve the problem
<fabrice_sp_> you can mix up also everything with a 'bad' patch
<av`> fabrice_sp_, as far as a developer review a patch is hard
<fabrice_sp_> I personally prefer to review 5 lines, instead of 100
<av`> fabrice_sp_, if you modify the source, the same lines will appear on a patch
<fabrice_sp_> as I told you before, this is a general consensus, and not only my personal view
<av`> with like 3-4 lines more for the rules/control
<fabrice_sp_> and the rules
<fabrice_sp_> and README.source
<av`> readme.source? would you add a that with a patch system which is quilt or dpatch?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp_: thnx for sponsoring hugin, but what about kadu?
<fabrice_sp_> in the case of that bug report, the first debdiff is 190 lines long
<stefanlsd> av`: i guess one of the reason is that in the general case the 'maintainer' is in debian. he has the right to employ or not employ a patch system as he sees fit
<fabrice_sp_> according to policy 3.8.3, yes
<av`> stefanlsd, I agree, but do you think the best choice is to patch sources directly?
<fabrice_sp_> ari-tczew, it's a sync, so it has to be perfomed by archive admin, even if I acked it
<av`> fabrice_sp_, there are some discussions to remove it for quilt / dpatch already ;)
<stefanlsd> av`: you could send him a patch to add a patch system, but he might not choose to use it. if he doesnt use it, we have a delta between debian and us which is even more painful to maintain
<fabrice_sp_> of course, the change has to be sent to Debian
<av`> stefanlsd, well no, in the case he adds a patch system it means out patches are now integrated
<av`> stefanlsd, so we can directly sync
<fabrice_sp_> but only the change/patch, not everything, so submittodebian makes a cleaner job
<av`> stefanlsd, we wouldnt need to change the patch system, if all patches are integrated
<av`> stefanlsd, we simply drop the delta
<fabrice_sp_> in this case, Debian does not have a patch system
<stefanlsd> av`: yeah, i realise this, but you assuming the maintainer wants to use the patch system
<fabrice_sp_> if you want to sponsor the patch system version, you can
<fabrice_sp_> I mean, I'm not the only one sponsoring things :-)
<av`> stefanlsd, he is free to choose whatever he wants
<av`> stefanlsd, but if our changes are integrated into debian we drop the delta anyway
<av`> stefanlsd, so again no point in patching the source
<fabrice_sp_> wih or without patch system
<fabrice_sp_> it's the same
<av`> fabrice_sp_, no, don't wanna steal your work :)
<fabrice_sp_> av`, which work :-)
<av`> fabrice_sp_, feel free to upload, I alwais use patch systems, so I was trying to know why you told him to patch the sources directly ;)
<fabrice_sp_> I'm scared by the ore than 1000 packages that still FTBFS...
 * av` too
<fabrice_sp_> that's what I did before Daneil, and others sponsors told menot to do so
<stefanlsd> av`: yeah, i'd say, until he does, stick to whatever is currently being used. if he doesnt integrate it, we have much more work on our hands as the diffs look completely different now...
<stefanlsd> there is also some really good arguments against patch systems (i cant argue them tho)
<av`> stefanlsd, but what would you do if there are more than 'one fix' to apply?
<av`> stefanlsd, I have 10 fixes around the code and I wanna apply them
<fabrice_sp_> AFAIK, most core dev are against patch systems :-)
<stefanlsd> and i think when workflows are using vcs like bzr, then we def dont want them
<av`> stefanlsd, then the next merger would start being crazy trying to get what the previous uploader did
<av`> stefanlsd, and to find out which fix is the one related to the foo.h or bar.c files
<stefanlsd> looking at diffs with patches in is also very confusing (but maybe thats just me)
<fabrice_sp_> in that case, it would cleaner, you're right, but if your 10 fixes fixes the same problem, they would be in the same patch anyway.
<fabrice_sp_> all rely on the changelog, yes
 * fabrice_sp_ is confused by diff with patches, and all that +-+-
<stefanlsd> not just me :)
<fabrice_sp_> no :-)
<fabrice_sp_> have to go to have some rest. Bye :-)
<av`> cya, have fun! :)
<fabrice_sp_> thanks :-)
<av`> np
<fabrice_sp_> and if you want, freetalk is waiting for you ;-)
<jbernard_> what is the consensus here? I have several FTBFS patches, but the diffs all rely on the outcome of this discussion
<av`> jbernard_, fabrice gonna take care of it :)
<jbernard_> but in general, ubuntu prefers modifying upstream as apposed to introducing a patch system?
<jbernard_> or vise versa?
<stefanlsd> jbernard_: i believe the consensus is 'stick to what the package currently uses'. so if it uses quilt, do quilt patches, if it patches source, just patch source.
<stefanlsd> av`: you guys are welcome to take this up on the motu mailing list for input from all motu's
<jbernard_> and the case where upstream is still pristine but no patch system is present?
<av`> stefanlsd, the problem is when there's nothing set yet e.g when there are no patches
<geser> jbernard_: if no patches are applied on the package you might add a patch system
<geser> just make sure you don't end with a mix of quilt/dpatch patches and other patches applied directly
<jbernard_> yep, this was the case with freetalk
<stefanlsd> yeah. also for packages that are  -0ubuntuX (maintained by ubuntu), if there is none, you can make the call.
<jbernard_> so the consensus seems to be that adding the patch system was the correct call
<jbernard_> (in this case)
<av`> stefanlsd, don't think mailing the MOTU list would change things, everyone can decide what to do as per package
<ajmitch_> but as a group, there can be a general agreement on what's done
<micahg> aptitude is showing me that 539MB will be freed if I update grub from 0.97-29ubuntu57 to 0.97-29ubuntu58
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-07
<directhex> micahg, what does it say will be removed?
<micahg> idk
<micahg> no packages afaik
<micahg> how can I see what the changes will be?
<directhex> um, aptitude lists all changes along with the space usage change
<micahg> directhex: just for gurb
<micahg> *grub
<james_w> micahg: bug 444703
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444703 in grub "package grub 0.97-29ubuntu57 failed to install" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444703
<micahg> james_w: that's the update
<Amaranth> micahg: Was a bug that grub used so much space, bug was fixed :)
<micahg> ah, so that version is actually using > 500MB of space?
<james_w> read the description
<james_w> "there was more than 1G of space before the upgrade started"
<micahg> ok, I'll do it then
<maco> did someone upload OOo again or something?ive been watching the "time til start" climb on a build for a while. it was 2 hr about 5 hr ago. now its 7 hr :P
<quidnunc> pysupport-movemodules: error: debian/python-musicdns is not a directory
<quidnunc> ^ Anyone know what I get that error?
<quidnunc> (when building)
<ScottK> micahg: Link me a bug number with a debdiff when you are ready.
<micahg> what do I need to put in the bug?
<micahg> ScottK: ^^^
<ari-tczew> ScottK perhaps mean about bug number here like this: bug #427886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427886 in kadu "[FFe] Sync kadu 0.6.5.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427886
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's a FTBFS
<ari-tczew> I see that you've got epiphany-browser in your ppa
<micahg> that's not the right one...
<micahg> kvpnc is the one I tried to fix
<ari-tczew> I asked here yesterday what about -gecko and gecko is dead, just support -webkit
<ari-tczew> it's FYI
<micahg> yes, I know, I touched the EOL bug :)
<micahg> -browser is now -webkit
<micahg> or rather replaces -webkit
<ari-tczew> micahg: open a new bug about FTBFS, attach a debdiff and buildlog, subscribe motu-release :>
<micahg> ok, thanks ari-tczew
<ari-tczew> OK, nice
<ari-tczew> np
<ScottK> micahg: A description of the problem and then a diff, preferably debdiff of the fix as an attachment.
<micahg> ScottK: can I use the debdiff that the PPA made?
<ScottK> micahg: Should at least get things in the ball park.
<ari-tczew> I guess no, if you've got *~ppa version in debian/changelog. Correct me if I'm wrong ;-)
<micahg> ari-tczew: I can edit that out :)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: That's why I said in the ball park instead of yes.
<ari-tczew> what is a ball park?
<ScottK> And micahg is right, as long as you don't change the number of lines in a diff, editing individual lines is pretty easy
<ScottK> Sorry, Americanism.
 * ScottK forgets sometimes.
<ScottK> It mean something is close to the right answer
<ari-tczew> ehh, nevermind
<micahg> ScottK: do I mark as patch?
<ScottK> Yes
<ari-tczew> ScottK: Can I send packages from my karmic desktop to ppa, but build for jaunty?
<ScottK> Yes.  Put jaunty in your debian/changelog entry for the upload
<micahg> ScottK: done...bug 445073
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445073 in kvpnc "FTBFS for 0.9.3-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445073
<ari-tczew> then package on jaunty will works fine?
<micahg> ScottK: thanks for your help and patience
<ScottK> micahg: No, thank you for working on making Ubuntu better.
<micahg> ari-tczew: it will build using the jaunty dependencies if jaunty is the version set in the topmost changelog entry
<ari-tczew> OK
<micahg> I might try to fix another FTBFS later tonight
<ScottK> Excellent.
<micahg> do they all need to be fixed before release?
<micahg> I'm guessing the main ones should come first, right?
<ScottK> Yes, although you can also reasonably assume that someone else will look at the ones in Main before release.
<ScottK> I'd concentrate on Universe because those might not otherwise get looked at.
<micahg> ok
<ScottK> micahg: They don't all NEED to be fixed, but we want to get as many as we can.
<Technoviking> How do I see the changelog on a updated Ubuntu package?
<ari-tczew> debian/changelog ?
<micahg> Technoviking: aptitude changelog PKGNAME
<ari-tczew> www interface: http://packages.ubuntu.com/
<micahg> ScottK: merge failed for pkg-kde-tools about a month ago
<micahg> https://merges.ubuntu.com/p/pkg-kde-tools/REPORT
<micahg> I'm guessing that merges are out now unless there's an ffe, right?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: could you review bug #431080 for check whether debdiff is correct?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431080 in drupal5 "Drupal 5.20 released to fix critical security vulnerability" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431080
<micahg> ScottK: should I report a bug in debian about the debhelper call for kvpnc
<ScottK> micahg: Probably.  Let me finish reviewing this first.
<micahg> ok
<ScottK> I'm doing several things at once, so it may be a little while.
<micahg> ok, just ping me if you want me to file something
<ScottK> Will do
<micahg> or comment the bug
<ScottK> OK
<micahg> thanks
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Just reading the source it looks reasonable.
<ari-tczew> I can prepare debdiff for all ubuntu's
<ari-tczew> just talk, is it debdiff looks right?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: It looks right.  Don't do the README.Source for the earlier releases.  Those should be minimal.
<ScottK> Also did you read the security team wiki on how they want debian/changelog formatted?
<ari-tczew> I did read, that for earlier releases debian/changelog needs format: [release]-security
<ari-tczew> e.g. jaunty-security
<ari-tczew> karmic before final release doesn't need -security?
<ScottK> That's correct
<ari-tczew> later I'll prepare debdiffs for the rest releases
<ScottK> micahg: My laptop developed a serioux X related issue, so sponsoring is off for tonight.  I haven't forgotten you.
<micahg> ok, just let me know if I need anything els
<micahg> e
<andol> fabrice_sp: Thanks for the quick sponsoring of bug #436035. I understood (and appreciated) most of the feedback, expect the last part about splitting the modifciation into two patches. What two diffrent changes where you thinking of?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436035 in rdiff-backup "Annoying deprecation warning" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436035
<fabrice_sp> andol, the one that comes from upstream, and the one you added
<fabrice_sp> shell=true
<fabrice_sp> because it does not comes from upstream, IIRC
<andol> Got it now, thanks
<fabrice_sp> yw :-)
<pwnguin> doko__: new eclipse? yay!
<dholbach> good morning
<lodder> Hi, can I ask questions about launchpad ppa here
<dholbach> lodder: is the issue about packaging or about the ppa?
<dholbach> lodder: if it's the latter, #launchpad might help more
<lodder> dholbach: well it's an issue about packaging using ppa
<lodder> dholbach: here is the build log: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33204464/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.time-drive_0.3-1~karmic1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dholbach> lodder: what's the issue?
<lodder> dholbach: it doesn't build that the issue , but when I build it unsigned local i have no issue
<lodder> dholbach: make: *** [debian/python-module-stampdir/time-drive] Error 1
<lodder> dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<lodder> I don't know what I can do about it
<dholbach> right
<lodder> dholbach: can you help me?
<dholbach> can you check the setup.py and try running it manually?
<lodder> oke
<dholbach> like   fakeroot ./setup.py build   or whatever setup.py call is failing there
<lodder> I know what it is
<lodder> I use an envirement variable in setup.py
<dholbach> this call fails too:
<lodder> damn I'm going to need to solve it :(
<dholbach> cd . && python setup.py clean -a
<dholbach> make: [python-module-clean/time-drive] Error 1 (ignored)
<dholbach> lodder: all the best with fixing it
<lodder> thx :(
<lodder> how am i going to do that :(
<lodder> ok
<lodder> got a solution ;)
<dholbach> can you do a   if not os.getenv("bla"):  <make a different clever decision here> ? :)
<lodder> dholbach: well i made a template and @ build of source i sed it
<lodder> dholbach: If i could the the version number of the folder yes that would be create as clever decision here
<micahg> can you have multiple DisplayIf statements in an update notifier script?
<tonyyarusso> Could someone help me with basic diff/patch usage?  I'm trying to apply a bunch of changes from one person's set of code to another, just in flat directories.
<tonyyarusso> I keep getting can't find file to patch at input line 2
<tonyyarusso> Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
<joaopinto> tonyyarusso, you need to use -p level, depending on how the patch was generated
<tonyyarusso> joaopinto: The patch was actually generated on my own system.  I tried using -p0.
<joaopinto> tonyyarusso, it is not about the system, but about the directory structure from where the diff command was issue to the changed files
<tonyyarusso> Well, the situation is that I have two directories, /usr/share/drupal-6-current/sites/ubuntu-minnesota.org/themes/ubuntu-drupal-theme/ and /home/anthony/ubuntu-drupal/ - I want to make a patch and then use it to apply the changes present in the home copy to the usr/share copy.  (I could just copy the files, but I want to know how to do it this way)
<tonyyarusso> The diff command I used was 'diff -r /usr/share/drupal-6-current/sites/ubuntu-minnesota.org/themes/ubuntu-drupal-theme/ /home/anthony/ubuntu-drupal/ > ubuntu-drupal-theme.diff' from within /home/anthony/
<joaopinto> tonyyarusso, look at the .diff header
<joaopinto> -p N, will remove N elements from the path described on the header
<tonyyarusso> err, header?
<joaopinto> erm, each diff section has an header, which describes the file the changes applies to
<tonyyarusso> The first line is 'diff -r /usr/share/drupal-6-current/sites/ubuntu-minnesota.org/themes/ubuntu-drupal-theme/block.tpl.php /home/anthony/ubuntu-drupal/block.tpl.php' if that's what you mean.
<tonyyarusso> okay, yeah
<tonyyarusso> Since I'm keeping the files in exactly those places, wouldn't I want to not remove anything?
<joaopinto> I have never used diff with absolute pathnames
<tonyyarusso> hrm
<tonyyarusso> It should also work to cd to /usr/share/drupal-6-current/sites/ubuntu-minnesota.org/themes/ubuntu-drupal-theme/ and use patch -p8, correct?
<tonyyarusso> (it doesn't - gah)
<surfzoid> Hi, synaptic give you the choice to see an screen shot, this feature is in dsc file ? how that work ?
<joaopinto> surfzoid, it uses http://screenshots.debian.net/
<joaopinto> is not packaging related
<surfzoid> joaopinto: ho so i just need to update an screenshot here with the same name of my soft ?
<surfzoid> **upload
<joaopinto> afaik, yes
<surfzoid> hey, the software name need to be in the debian database ?
<surfzoid> joaopinto: ^ :-)
<joaopinto> surfzoid, read the how to upload instructions, but yes I guess the package needs to be already in Debian
<surfzoid> i read them yes
<surfzoid> but they don't speak about that
<joaopinto> it's kind of implicit
<surfzoid> yes i guess
<skwashd> hi all
<skwashd> i am not sure if this is the right place ... but here i go anyway
<skwashd> if i want to have a nightly build of some packages run ... and sign them to keep apt happy
<skwashd> how is the best way to do it?
<skwashd> nm ... figured it out ... strip the passphrase from the key
<fale> hi
<fale> someone can review this, please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xwpe/+bug/444096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444096 in xwpe "XWPE has problems with pointer" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<ScottK> NCommander: Any suggestions on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fgfs-atlas/0.3.1-1ubuntu1/+build/1276629/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-armel.fgfs-atlas_0.3.1-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<NCommander> ScottK, abandon all hope?
<ScottK> NCommander: Right, well that's a given.
<NCommander> ScottK, the compiler doing something it shouldn't, but without looking at the source indepth, I'm not sure what that is
<jbernard_> if anyone wants to upload something awesome, I've attached a patch that fixes bug #445501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445501 in gbdfed "gbdfed FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445501
<iulian> jbernard_: Looking.
<iulian> Er, it takes 10 minutes to open a page.
 * iulian hits the refresh button.
<superm1> siretart, how come ffmpeg-extra doesn't have faac support?
<superm1> mplayer and mencoder both do
<superm1> no faac support is unfortunately rendering rhpot1991's mythexport
<siretart`> superm1: see bug #374900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374900 in faac "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374900
<siretart`> superm1: AFAIUI, libfaac binaries are actually unredistributable, as they are essentially a (LGPL licensed) patchset based upon the aac reference implementation, which itself is non-free
<superm1> siretart`, then shouldn't mplayer and mencoder not link against it either?
<siretart`> in that case, we should remove it immediately from the archive, but before doing something stupid, one would need to investigate the issue more closely
<siretart`> superm1: most probably not, right.
<superm1> rhpot1991, ^ well that answers your situation, i guess you'll have to drop AAC support from mythexport
<siretart`> I just didn't find the time to investigate the faac issue properly. I've spent too much time already on getting ffmepg and mplayer in shape for karmic (and they still aren't IMO) :(
<superm1> too bad :(
<siretart`> I still do hope that I did misunderstand things here. however, I failed to reach upstream
<rhpot1991> unfortunate, hopefully I can just deal with mp3 instead
<siretart`> so if anyone knows how to contact them, please do so
<siretart`> avcodec also has an internal aac encoder, perhaps you can use that one?
<rhpot1991> siretart`: libavcodec-extra-52
<rhpot1991>  right?
<siretart`> the aac encoder should be enable in both libavcodec52 and libavcodec-extra-52.
<siretart`> the -extra- package just enables the wrappers for extra (i.e. non-ffmpeg-internal) libraries
<rhpot1991> siretart`: happen to know what the -acodec flag is for aac when using avcodec?
<siretart`> rhpot1991: you can list the available codecs with 'ffmpeg -formats'
<siretart`> rhpot1991: if you don't have the 'ffmpeg' package installed, see /usr/share/doc/libavcodec52/formats.txt.gz
<siretart`> (the -extra- package has a similar file for comparison)
<rhpot1991> siretart1`: D  aac raw ADTS AAC
<rhpot1991> , meanse Decrypt only right?
<siretart`> yes
<rhpot1991> ya that wont help much then
<siretart`> oh, hrmpf. I would need to investigate why the internal aac encoder isn't enabled. perhaps 0.5 is just to old and one would need to backport libavcodec/aacenc.c from trunk...
<rhpot1991> siretart`: ya if I could encode with that then I'd be fine
<rhpot1991> want me to open up a bug on that?
<siretart`> rhpot1991: feel free, but don't expect me to work on that for karmic.
<rhpot1991> siretart`: ok
<james_w> anyone up for a ftbfs fixing session?
<james_w> a collaborative debugging/teaching/sponsoring session?
<RainCT> james_w: I'm doing a series of blog posts about that (in Catalan) :P
<james_w> excellent :-)
<jbernard_> james_w: im in
<james_w> I'm working from http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html
<james_w> I'm about to upload ggz-server
<jbernard_> james_w: yep, ive been working on that for a few days now
<james_w> cool
<james_w> the patch was already in the Debian BTS: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504972
<ubottu> Debian bug 504972 in ggz-server "FTBFS with GCC 4.4: missing #include" [Unknown,Open]
<jbernard_> ive got a patch for gpgoffice
<james_w> jbernard_: would you like me to sponsor?
<jbernard_> that would be awesome, shall i file a bug and attach the diff?
<james_w> patch over IRC would be fine
<james_w> feel free to use a bug to get file hostin
<jbernard_> im on it
<jbernard_> james_w: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/287958/
<james_w> hmm
<james_w> isn't that a bad cast?
<james_w> I'm assuming TRANSCRIPTION_ANSI is a static string?
<jbernard_> yes, but they don't modify it
<james_w> hang on, isn't it
<james_w>        char *strchr(const char *s, int c);
<james_w> ?
<jbernard_> hang on, i made the patch a day or so ago, lemme take a closer look
<james_w> ah, it seems if you pass a const in the return should be a const
<jbernard_> james_w: yeah, thats what i was thinkgn as well
<james_w> didn't know you could do that in C++
<james_w> jbernard_: would you like to fix up the patch?
<jbernard_> james_w: yep, that fixes it properly
<james_w> just changing the declaration of pu should work I think
<jbernard_> ill repaste
<james_w> also, if you could use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines that would be great
<jbernard_> ahh, sure
<james_w> ggz-server uploaded
<james_w> I'm going to try my hand at libgtk2-perl
<james_w> which might be a bad idea
<jbernard_> nonsense, it's gonna be great
<jbernard_> james_w: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/287984/
<james_w> jbernard_: your patch tags suggest that you haven't forwarded the change :-)
<james_w> would you send the patch to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=gbgoffice ?
<jbernard_> james_w: on it
<james_w> nice
<james_w> I'll testbuild in the meantime
<jbernard_> james_w: done
<james_w> jbernard_: thanks, it fails to build here as the patch fails to apply
<jbernard_> james_w: ahh, it must be the patch tags
<james_w> tabs->spaces in the file or something?
<jbernard_> james_w: hmm, lemme check
<jbernard_> james_w: the code indention should be tabbed
<jbernard_> perhaps the paste lost some formatting, it applies fine for me
<james_w> ah, that would do it
<jbernard_> james_w: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=550115
<ubottu> Debian bug 550115 in gbgoffice "FTBFS: invalid const conversion" [Normal,Open]
<james_w> got it
<james_w> uploaded
<jbernard_> thanks!
<james_w> thanks for your contribution to Ubuntu :-)
<james_w> I got half of the libgtk2-perl failure, but can't work out the other bit yet
<james_w> is(($view -> get_cursor())[0] -> to_string(), "1:0");
<james_w> Can't call method "to_string" on an undefined value at t/GtkTreeView.t line 233.
<jbernard_> still building...
<jbernard_> james_w: i dont know about this one, xs/GtkTreeView.xs +500 suggests the value should be defined
<james_w> yeah, "either may be undefined" suggest that it shouldn't be undef as it appears to be
<james_w> ah
<james_w> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=545616
<ubottu> Debian bug 545616 in libgtk2-perl "libgtk2-perl: FTBFS: tests failed" [Serious,Closed]
<james_w> should have looked there to start with
<jbernard_> nice
<james_w> and there's a further upload to fix the other part of the issue
<james_w> yay for the perl team
<jbernard_> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504845
<ubottu> Debian bug 504845 in freefem3d "FTBFS with GCC 4.4: missing #include" [Unknown,Open]
<jbernard_> that'll fix freefem3d
<james_w> I'll try syncing
<jbernard_> not sure if it's been uploaded yet
<james_w> doesn't look like it
<james_w> I'll queue that one up as well, thanks
<jbernard_> no problem
<randomaction> What happens to packages for which FTBFS isn't fixed? Are they excluded from the release?
<sistpoty> randomaction: no, they jus tstay unfixed :(
<randomaction> so they just go with the old .debs?
<randomaction> (if they exist)
<sistpoty> yes
<geser> randomaction: and hope we don't need to do a SRU or security upload
<kees> anything in main that FTBFS is an RC bug.
<randomaction> yes, I've seen a number of such bugs opened by lamont today
<geser> kees: should bugs be filed based on the archive rebuild test for those (after confirmation that they still FTBFS)?
 * sistpoty considers sponsoring the rc bug #438031 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438031 in texlive-bin "texlive-bin won't compile against libpoppler 0.12" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438031
<sistpoty> (fixes a FTBFS on the way)
<kees> geser: yeah, I think so.  check with ubuntu-release to be sure, though
<dhillon-v10> hi all, I need some help with downloading a package (using dget) the program doesn't create a working directory by default
<randomaction> dget -x or dpkg-source -x
<dhillon-v10> <randomaction> hi, I did that I am trying to get the source of speeddial here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/speeddial/
<dhillon-v10> <randomaction> terminal says that signature validation failed and then doesn't create a working directory
<jbernard_> sistpoty: thank you for uploading gbdfed
<dhillon-v10> gpg: Signature made Sun 21 Sep 2008 09:14:07 PM EDT using RSA key ID 140C6664
<dhillon-v10> gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<dhillon-v10> Validation FAILED!!
<sistpoty> jbernard_: thanks for the patch! :)
<joaopinto> dhillon-v10, if you want the source for a "current" package, just apt-get source instead
<dhillon-v10> <joaopinto> this one's a bug in karmic and I don't have karmic, I am running jaunty
<joaopinto> ah ok :)
<joaopinto> dget -ux
<dhillon-v10> let me try that :)
<joaopinto> dhillon-v10, actually, man dget :)
<dhillon-v10> <joaopinto> I have done dget several times, if you read previous line I added the output of using dget alone
<dhillon-v10> IT WORKED :) yay
<dhillon-v10> thanks all and bye
<ni|> if i am running an installer application as root and it has two components..an initscript and a user program -- the initscript starts after installation is complete; however, the user app does not because its still UID 0 in the installer; is there a way i can grab the UID that did the su or sudo so i can start the userland program from the installer that is running as UID 0
<asac> anyone here running jaunty and uses a system connection for its wired in NM?
<asac> :)
<slacker_nl> asac: i know someone who does
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-08
<micahg> JontheEchidna: thanks for the packaging tips
<JontheEchidna> micahg: thanks for the FTBFS fix ;)
<zachtib> hey, q about the eclipse-cdt package in Karmic: it's version 3.1.2, which is a (very) older version than the version of eclipse in karmic, 3.5.1. The version of cdt that corresponds to that eclipse release is 6.0.1, so I'm worried that someone installing eclipse and eclipse-cdt on Karmic is going to wind up with a broken eclipse...
<zachtib> I'm guessing it's way too late to bump the cdt version that much, so it seems to me the best thing would to be pull it (I think a few other packages are in a similar state) and let users install addons via eclipse's built in manager until newer packages can be built...
<zachtib> (I came here b/c the eclipse-cdt package is maintained by MOTU)
<micahg> zachtib: have you looked at that bug that was mentioned in the eclipse fix bug?
<zachtib> i did a quick search on launchpad, but I don't think I've seen the one you're referring to
<micahg> bug 163739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 163739 in eclipse-cdt "Version 4.x has been released for some time" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163739
<zachtib> ah,that's the one I saw
<zachtib> though even 4.x is pretty old
<micahg> zachtib: you might want to update the upgrade bug
<micahg> have you tried eclipse-cdt and eclispe together?
<zachtib> on it
<micahg> is there indeed a problem, or is it just lacking features
<zachtib> not yet, I just noticed it
<zachtib> i'll know shortly... I mentioned it to my mother, who is an eclipse developer that works w/ cdt a lot, and she said it was probably asking for trouble
<zachtib> lemme fire up my VM
<micahg> ok, if there's a conflict, then please file a separate bug saying that there is a conflict
<micahg> although, idk
<micahg> maybe someone else can weigh in here
<micahg> just requiring version 3.2 doesn't seem like a good solution as that's not in the repo
<zachtib> ideally, I'd like to see cdt 6.0.1 in there, but it's probably a little late for that
<zachtib> for Karmic at least
<micahg> zachtib: not necessarily
<ScottK> zachtib: If the current one won't work, as long as someone can package the new version and test it, it shouldn't be a problem.
<zachtib> micahg: ScottK: just tried, eclipse 3.5.1 flat out doesn't see eclipse-cdt 3.1.2
<ScottK> OK.  That's step on.
<ScottK> Step two is someone packages the new version (Debian has the same one we do).
<micahg> ok, so update bug 163739 to the version it should be
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 163739 in eclipse-cdt "Version 4.x has been released for some time" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163739
<micahg> and find someone to package it like ScottK said :)
<zachtib> can I edit that bug?
<micahg> lool: lubuntu-meta still didn't build amd64
<micahg> zachtib: if you're registered with launchpaf
<micahg> *launchpad
<zachtib> i am, I just don't see what to click
<zachtib> ah
<micahg> are yo ulogged in?
<zachtib> yes
<micahg> you should see a foot in the title
<zachtib> got it
<ScottK> Unless you are using one of the many browsers that doesn't work with
<zachtib> nope, it works
<micahg> dyfet: lubuntu-desktop still does not have amd64
<ScottK> micahg: I'm fixing it.
<micahg> ScottK: which thing?
<ScottK> micahg: lubuntu
<micahg> ok
<zachtib> micahg: I sent an email to a guy that had some up-to-date eclipse packages in his PPA, so maybe he'll be able to provide some updated packages...
<ScottK> micahg: The lubuntu fix is uploaded.
<micahg> ok, thanks ScottK
<ScottK> micahg: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-meta/0.7.1/+build/1281343
<micahg> thanks ScottK
<cyberix_> What happens when a user installs a package which depens on something that is implemented by multiple alternative packages?
<ScottK> First one on the list gets installed if none are already installed, but if any of them are installed nothing extra gets installed.
<cyberix_> I mean
<cyberix_> we used to have totem-xine and totem-gstreamer
<dhillon-v10> hi all, I just got done installing pbuilder (sudo apt-get install pbuilder) and I have a then I had to test a package if it runs on karmic or not so I did sudo pbuilder update --distribution karmic --override-config it started downloading lot of packages and I am running karmic, I didn't break anything on jaunty did I
<cyberix_> both of which would provide totem
<cyberix_> now, if I'd have none installed
<cyberix_> and something would simply depend on "totem"
<cyberix_> there would be no list
<dhillon-v10> * I am running jaunty
<cyberix_> to chechk which one comes first
<ScottK> cyberix_: In the case of a virtual provides it's random.
<cyberix_> ok
<cyberix_> But the user is not bothered?
<cyberix_> the system picks one
<ScottK> that's why you should always depend on realpackage|virtualpackage so you get deterministic behavior
<cyberix_> ok
<ScottK> The user is not bothered
<cyberix_> thank you
<ScottK> No problem.
<cyberix_> I never knew how far I'm from understanding how this stuff works, until I started reading how multiarch works :-)
 * ScottK shudders
<cyberix_> lol
<cyberix_> I'm starting to get it.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kazehakase/0.5.4-2.1ubuntu3.0xul191/+build/1152529 would be a nice target for FTBFS fixing by someone that knows a bit of gtk.
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: You might want to take a shot at fixing https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bayonne/2.3.2-3build1/+build/1161099/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.bayonne_2.3.2-3build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - in addition to FTBFS fix, it also clears up some NBS.
<porthose> fabrice_sp, Thx for the upload.  Forwarding it to Debian :)
<kklimonda> siretart: can you take a look at bug 446040 when you are online?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446040 in mplayer "vdpau video output breaks fullscreen playback at least on some GPUs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446040
<fabrice_sp> porthose, thanks for the debdiff ;-)
<dholbach> good morning
<mohanohi> hi pwnguin
<pwnguin> h
<mohanohi> compiling ctl..
<pwnguin> why?
<mohanohi> its giving error while doing make..
<mohanohi> to install the missing library..
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> thats what you meant by color transform
<mohanohi> http://pastebin.ca/1603475
<mohanohi> can you tell me why the error is occuring pls?
<pwnguin> maybe
<pwnguin> you did ./configure?
<mohanohi> yeah..
<pwnguin> well, it means that a standard function wasn't properly scoped
<mohanohi> hmm??
<pwnguin> the question is, is it because your compiler is too new, or too old?
<mohanohi> ah..
<mohanohi> what should i do now?
<mohanohi> how to check if my compiler version?
<pwnguin> gcc --version
<mohanohi> gcc (Ubuntu 4.3.3-5ubuntu4) 4.3.3
<pwnguin> you might ask the developer how he did it
<mohanohi> pwnguin: oh...
<pwnguin> http://ramenhdr.blogspot.com/2009/09/color-transformation-language.html
<mohanohi> pwnguin: yeah.. i read it..
<pwnguin> i wonder if CtlLex.cpp is actually c++
<mohanohi> pwnguin: hmm.. no programming idea... :(
<mohanohi> pwnguin: i am just an artist
<pwnguin> well, ramenhdr is super new
<pwnguin> and it's dependencies aren't yet packaged
<pwnguin> which is a bad sign
<pwnguin> mohanohi: im guessing strtol was depricated or moved and ctl hasn't changed to fix it
<pwnguin> it looks like the developer uses osx
<mohanohi> pwnguin:oh...
<pwnguin> honestly, even the gentoo people have trouble building according to the forum
<mohanohi> pwnguin:oh... ok.. then i will mail the developer.. sorry for wasting your time :)
<pwnguin> not a problem
<mohanohi> pwnguin: thanx :)
<pwnguin> ive actually been collecting references to nodal editors like that
<pwnguin> hadn't seen that one
<pwnguin> but i think he's going a bit nuts on the dependencies without considering their long term viability
<pwnguin> Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences might not be a very responsive upstream
<mohanohi> pwnguin: oh...
<mohanohi> pwnguin: anyhow.. linux seriously needs a Opensource compositing program..
<pwnguin> have you seen blender?
<mohanohi> pwnguin: Blender is our productions major package..
<mohanohi> pwnguin: but it isn't really sufficient as an compositing programme..
<mohanohi> pwnguin: lacks rotoscope, tracker, animatable nodes, good masking..
<jetienne> q. what is the name of the tool which convert a ./configure installation in a .deb ?
<randomaction> checkinstall
<jetienne> randomaction: thanks
<jetienne> q. where can i get information on how to set my own repository
<_ruben> google, as there's tons of methods, each with their pros and cons
<jetienne> _ruben: on widely accepted good practice ?
<_ruben> jetienne: depends on your needs/wishes/etc .. i use debmirror to mirror the official repos and mini-dinstall for our inhouse packages
<jetienne> _ruben: this is a for small repo with only our packages, like 10 packages top
<jetienne> easy to install would be good
<_ruben> mini-dinstall will probably suffice for that
<jetienne> _ruben: cool thanks
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: will take a look later... (hm, didn't close kvirc when I left work yesterday *g*)
<Daviey> Could a motu please confirm Bug #446038 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446038 in mythtv-theme-mythbuntu "Remove from archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446038
<Laney> superm1 is a MOTU
<Laney> superm1: why didn't you confirm it?
<ScottK> sistpoty|work: Thanks.
<Daviey> Laney: superm1 reported it, i would suggest it's bad form for a reporter to confirm their own bug :)
<Laney> Daviey: not for process bugs like this
<Daviey> ok
<Laney> you're just asking an archive admin to perform an action you can't do yourself
<Laney> I did it anyway
<Daviey> thanks Laney, i'll pester an AA now.
<Laney> one just spoke in this very channel ;)
<ScottK> Not one that can do removals, however.  That takes shell access.
<Laney> oh :(
<Laney> Is that Canonical staff only?
<directhex> there are different degrees of AAness?
<directhex> i thought they all sat atop mount olympus, with a glowy blue aura :(
<ScottK> Laney: Yes.
<ScottK> For non-Canonical AA, we can only do what the LP U/I allows.
<Laney> is that basically NEWing?
<AnAnt> Hello, could someone review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabily-xsplash-artwork ?
<AnAnt> ^ it closes LP 440153, which is FFe approved
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440153 in sabily "FFe: Add an xsplash theme for Sabily" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440153
<mok0> Man it looks dumb when that Kpackagekit window resizes for every package it installs...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<lfaraone> If a package was pulled in from debian with a python-multithreading dep, does it make sense to remove that dep in Ubuntu? Is it worth fixing at this time?
<AnAnt> bddebian: Hello
<bddebian> Hi AnAnt
<AnAnt> could someone review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabily-xsplash-artwork ?
<AnAnt> ^ it closes LP 440153, which is FFe approved
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440153 in sabily "FFe: Add an xsplash theme for Sabily" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440153
<sistpoty|work> ScottK: patch at bug #412933, it's really ugly though, and I haven't tested yet if it works (well, I'm at work...)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 412933 in eglibc "bayonne FTBFS with g++-4.4: wrong prototype for strchr()" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412933
<RoAkSoAx> heya guys should -doc pcakages Depend on ${misc:Depends} if lintian says so?
<james_w> there's no harm in it
<james_w> and there's often no harm in not doing it either
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, ok thanks :)
<james_w> it's only needed if debhelper automatically adds a dependency
<james_w> if it won't do that for your package then you don't need it, but it's better to have it
<james_w> just not worth adding to a package that we get from Debian unless it is known to cause a bug
<RoAkSoAx> ok awesome! thanks :)
<ari-tczew> james_w: could you review this bug #431080 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431080 in drupal6 "Fix critical security vulnerability (SA-CORE-2009-008)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431080
<irixpgmr> I am learning about buffer overflows.  I am working in a virtual environment.  How do it turn of the Ubuntu 9.04 protections?
<av`> ScottK, about Bug #431979, do you think is sane enough to package it for karmic? or should we ask to have it synced from debian at some point?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431979 in amule "[security and bugfix release] amule 2.2.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431979
<soc> hi
<soc> i'm just changing something in the glade files of synaptic, but somehow the change never appears after i compiled the app, what am i doing wrong?
<joaopinto> you are not installing the files into the proper place ?
<soc> hoe would i do it?
<soc> there is a makefile in this dir and it gets executed afaics
<soc> s/hoe/how
<fabrice_sp> funkyHat, ping
<funkyHat> fabrice_sp: pong?
<funkyHat> fabrice_sp: just got in, taking at look at that patch now.
<funkyHat> I already made a patch to submit to upstream, so I'm just reading how to put that into dpatch
<funkyHat> Is there some more help about dpatch than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#dpatch ?
<wrapster> i was building jkaudio pkg and this is what i got as an error... http://pastie.org/647309
<wrapster> i needed help on resolving it.. and its a little urgent.. can anyone look into it pls
<ScottK> av`: For amule we pretty much always want the latest crack, so I'd be in favor at long as there's a halfway sane package.
<av`> ScottK, gonna update the package and upload it
<av`> myself :)
<joaopinto> wrapster, what don't you understand about that error ?
<wrapster> joaopinto: well what i wanted to post was something different.. sorry about that.. the issue is actually about a complain on missing header sys/audio.h and sys/mixer.h
<joaopinto> pastebin it please, and I hope you are not again asking us about opensolaris specific stuff :P
<av`> ScottK, please comment into the bug and say it's ok for the update
<av`> ScottK, plus approve the task
<wrapster> joaopinto: no not this time
<wrapster> :)
<fabrice_sp> funkyHat, man dpatch?
 * funkyHat feels silly now
<fabrice_sp> lol
<ScottK> av`: Done
<av`> ScottK, thanks
<ScottK> No problem.  Thank you for working on it.
<funkyHat> fabrice_sp: still not really getting it, I don't want to just try it as I'm worried I'd mess up my package and have to start again
<av`> ScottK, np :)
<funkyHat> I suppose I'd be able to just use my debdiff though
<fabrice_sp> funkyHat, an easy is to use dpatch-edit-patch
<fabrice_sp> and apply then your patch to it
<funkyHat> Ah got it
<funkyHat> So I need to reset it to the unmodified package anyway. should I do dpatch and then dch -i?
<funkyHat> Or just unpatch the file I changed and then do dpatch-edit-patch?
<ScottK> I'm a fan of dpatch-edit-patch
<funkyHat> Do you know the answer to my question then? :)
<fabrice_sp> unpatch the file and then run dpatch-edit-patch
<fabrice_sp> do somebody know what would be the watch file to download the source from there: http://plugins.guifications.org/trac/downloads ?
<funkyHat> I just did dpatch-edit-patch and patched then exited, but my patch isn't in 00list...
<ScottK> funkyHat: You have to add it to 00list by hand, but the patch should exist now.
<funkyHat> Oh ok. So I will add a number to the beginning of the file, as I didn't realise I should
<micahg> ScottK: about the kvpnc thing, shouldI file a bug about the packaging, upstream?
<ScottK> micahg: Yes.  About a missing version requirement for pkg-kde-tools
<micahg> ok
<ScottK> micahg: Where upstream means Debian.
<micahg> yes
<ylatuya> Hi! I'm trying to package Chronojump for Ubuntu and I'm looking for an Advocate (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/445207). The package is already in revu. Is it the right place to ask help?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445207 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]:chronojump" [Wishlist,New]
<ScottK> ylatuya: We are very close to a release, so not taking new packages right now.  We'll be back in the new package business next month.
<ylatuya> Ok. I'll come back in a month :)
<funkyHat> fabrice_sp: just uploaded the new patch :)
<fabrice_sp> cool :-)
<fabrice_sp> did you take care of the merge?
<ScottK> ylatuya: You're welcome to hang around and help us fix bugs in the meantime.
<fabrice_sp> Or I should perform it by myself?
<funkyHat> fabrice_sp: the merge?
<fabrice_sp> yes: Debian has a newer version that should be merged as it fixes several bugs
<funkyHat> Oh, sorry, you mentioned that and I forgot about it
<fabrice_sp> np :-)
<fabrice_sp> will take it?
<funkyHat> I've not done a merge before, but I could give it ago
<funkyHat> *a go
<fabrice_sp> from what I remember, this one is easy
<ylatuya> ScottK:I'm the maintainer of LongoMatch and filled to asking to update the version that currently is in karmic because I'm not maintaining the 0.14.x anymore (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/longomatch/+bug/420107). The current upstream version is at 0.15.3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420107 in longomatch "Update to LongoMatch-0.15.1" [Wishlist,New]
 * ScottK looks
<fabrice_sp> funkyHat, have a look and if you feel like it's too much for you, just tell me, and I will take care of it
<sebner> ScottK: ylatuya : Hoi, I planned to do the packaging on the weekend (Debian ->Ubuntu) but if necessary I could work on getting it directly into Ubuntu first
<ylatuya> sebner: Hi!
<sebner> ylatuya: hi ;)
<ari-tczew> hello all
<ylatuya> sebner: I let everything in your hands :) Thanks again for your help
<ScottK> ylatuya and sebner: It needs two motu-release acks for FFe.  I just gave one.
<funkyHat> grab-merge just told me "You almost certainly don't want to continue without investigating." < what should I investigate?
<sebner> ScottK: I know, just wanted to ask what's the consens right now
<ScottK> Since the current package seems broken in Karmic, not broken > broken.
<ari-tczew> who can accept bug #431080 ? I need info for follow work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431080 in drupal6 "Fix critical security vulnerability (SA-CORE-2009-008)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431080
<fabrice_sp> funkyHat, why does it say that to you?
<funkyHat> fabrice_sp: it says "it looks like this package is maintained in revision control:" then lists some git urls
<fabrice_sp> funkyHat, you can perform the merge
<fabrice_sp> without investigation, I mean
<ylatuya> ScottK:sebner: The package itself is not broken. Are all the Mono packages broken due to #420385
<ScottK> Ah
<ScottK> ylatuya: Are you subscribed to bugs in Launchpad for the package?
<sebner> ScottK: to be honest the current package wouldn't have entered Debian/Ubuntu since there was also a source file license issue.
<funkyHat> Also the package number that grab-merge has downloaded is confusing, there's a gpaint_0.3.3-3ubuntu1.src.tar.gz but that's the same debian version as the debian version it downloaded??
<ScottK> sebner: Is that fixed in the new version?
<funkyHat> Is that the point?
<sebner> ScottK: yep
<ylatuya> ylatuya: yes
<ScottK> sebner: More reason to update
<funkyHat> fabrice_sp: ok :)
<ScottK> So licensing fixes and upstream support are good reasons to update
<ylatuya> ylatuya: 0.14.x is not maintained anymore
<sebner> ScottK: yeah, wasn't sure because we are that late in the archive cycle.  I'll get active tomorrow :)
<fabrice_sp> funkyHat, gpaint_0.3.3-3ubuntu1.src.tar.gz has been created by MoM. It's better to begin with a fresh debian directory, and incorporate the changes
<fabrice_sp> s/debian/debian package/
<fabrice_sp> this way, you control better what changes you are doing
<funkyHat> Oh, so that tarball is just 0.3.3-3 with an ubuntu version bump tacked on?
<funkyHat> no actual changes
<funkyHat> Or an automated merge attempt?
<fabrice_sp> an automate merge attempt
<fabrice_sp> better to unpack 0.3.3-3, and manually do the merge
<funkyHat> Ok, so I should ignore that and work straight from the debian package
<funkyHat> Right
<jdong>  
<fabrice_sp> so nobody can help me with the trac based download url for a watch file?
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: what's the program?
<fabrice_sp> purple plugins pack (http://plugins.guifications.org/trac/downloads)
<fabrice_sp> trying to get the watch file fixed
<ari-tczew> what's the program in ubuntu?
<fabrice_sp> purple-plugin-pack
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<ari-tczew> You have searched for packages that names contain purple-plugin-pack in all suites, all sections, and all architectures.
<ari-tczew> Sorry, your search gave no results
<fabrice_sp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/purple-plugin-pack
<ari-tczew> give me a moment for that
<fabrice_sp> I'm trying to fix the watch file of this package
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> have to go now. Will have a look tomorrow morning. bye!
<ari-tczew> cya
<funkyHat> wooo vimdiff is shiny
<ari-tczew> http://plugins.guifications.org/trac/downloads/purple-plugin_pack-2.6.0.tar.gz
<ari-tczew> this link shoud be works, but doesn't accepted by uscan
<ari-tczew> if someone is boring, feel free to play with it
<funkyHat> Is there a command to unpack an original tarball and apply a debian source diff to it?
<ari-tczew> are you mean about .diff.gz?
<funkyHat> Yeah
<debfx> funkyHat: if you have the .dsc file: dpkg-source -x
<funkyHat> ah :) thanks
<debfx> if you want to download+unpack a source package you can use dget
<funkyHat> debfx: I already had  the source because  I'd used grab-merge
<ari-tczew> who is reviewing bugs refers to fix security bugs?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: For Karmic or earlier releases?
<ari-tczew> ScottK: both
<ari-tczew> karmic, jaunty, intrepid, hardy
<kees> ari-tczew: when you've got patches and you've tested them, please attach them to the bug and set the bug to "In Progress".  from there, the security team will sponsor the uploads.
<kees> ari-tczew: (for the stable releases)
<ScottK> ari-tczew: And regular sponsorship process for Karmic.
<ari-tczew> ouh, so I need to hack drupal ;-D (for testing)
<ari-tczew> kees: if I'll done packages for test, could you test these?
<kees> ari-tczew: I'm sure I could figure it out, but it would be much easier if someone familiar with it (and the changes) did the testing.
<funkyHat> Ok, I'm trying to merge gpaint, and add a patch I've created to fix #444750
<funkyHat> bug 444750
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444750 in gpaint "[papercut] CTRL-V doesnt paste in gpaint" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444750
<funkyHat> And I'm not sure what to do about debian/changelog
<funkyHat> I'm basically just keeping one change from Ubuntu (adding ${misc:Depends) to depends) and my patch, should I just keep debian's changelog and add what I'm changing?
<ari-tczew> I'm not a hax0r so I can don't know how test it. :P
<ScottK> ari-tczew: You might ask for testing help in #ubuntu-server.
<ari-tczew> OK
<funkyHat> Can anyone tell me if I'm doing the right thing with this merge? :(
<ari-tczew> funkyHat: if you have done, upload to ppa :P
<funkyHat> ari-tczew: no I haven't yet, I'm not sure what to do about debian/changelog ^
<funkyHat> I'm guessing I should just keep the new one from debian and put the changes I made on top
<Darxus> funkyHat: You should use dch -i to update the changelog.
<Darxus> That'll add something like -1ubuntu1 to the version.
<Darxus> Which is what you should do if you're merging from debian.
<funkyHat> Darxus: well I'm not sure if I've done a proper merge, I've just re-applied the relevant Ubuntu changes to the new debian package
<Darxus> funkyHat: Open a bug if there isn't one (requesting the merge) and attach a debdiff.
<Darxus> Did you check to see if there are any ubuntu specific changes in, say, debian/control?  For example, in hugin, a depends is added.
<Darxus> funkyHat: Do you know about MoM?  What's the package?
<funkyHat> Darxus: Darxus gpaint, see about 20 lines above
<Darxus> Do you know about MoM?
<ari-tczew> funkyHat: I suggest to you - read wiki.ubuntu.com
<Darxus> Hah.
<Darxus> funkyHat: Are you matt Wheeler?
<funkyHat> Darxus: I grabbed the package from there using grab-merge but I was advised by fabrice_sp to unpack 0.3.3-3 and do the merge manually
<funkyHat> Darxus: yes
<Darxus> He recommended the same to me.
<Darxus> But you should check MoM to make sure there's nothing else, like changes in debian/control, that need to be updated as well.
<funkyHat> Darxus: I did that, see above
<Darxus> Then what are you unsure about?
<funkyHat> Which debian/changelog I should keep, or should I merge them?
<funkyHat> My guess is I should just have debian's and make a note again at the top of the changes I've re-added for Ubuntu, but I wasn't sure
<Darxus> funkyHat: Oh, just use the debian one.
<Darxus> With your addition.
<funkyHat> Ok :)
<Darxus> The docs for mom give a specific format for a merge changelog entry.
<Darxus> -Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
<Darxus> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<Darxus> You got that?
<funkyHat> yeah
<Darxus> Cool.
<funkyHat> Adding it to the changelog too
<Darxus> So you merged from debian and added key bindings?
<funkyHat> Yeah
<Darxus> Cool.
<funkyHat> Should I file a separate bug for the merge?
<Darxus> I don't know.
<funkyHat> Before I build the package, so I can add the magic to debian/changelog for the bug fix :)
<Darxus> I think you should be fine doing both in one.
<funkyHat> Ok
<funkyHat> I'm using reportbug to report this bug upstream, does it matter that it's including a whole bunch of stuff about how I'm running ubuntu in the report?
<Darxus> funkyHat: No.
<Darxus> Wow, I'm surprised more packages FTBFS on i386 than amd64.
<ScottK> Darxus: arch all packages are only built on i386, so it has a lot more packages.
<Darxus> Ah.  Seems like they should be built on all architectures.
<Darxus> Are packages build tested continuously throughout the release cycle, or just at the end?
<ScottK> It varies.
<ScottK> We're a bit into a new process this cycle so we only managed it once.
<ScottK> It is supposed to be done two or three times.
<Darxus> It seems like it should be done continuously.
<ScottK> Given unlimited resourced, certainly.
<Darxus> Heh, okay.
<ScottK> resourced/resources
<Darxus> Unlimited resources would be nice.
<Darxus> I wonder if the SABDFL would be interested in throwing more machines at build testing.
<joaopinto> It would be cheaper to have a distributed build test farm
<ScottK> I think we should have a better plan for it the next cycle.
<av`> ScottK, what happened to the mentoring offers into LP?
<ScottK> av`: Not sure, but I vaguely recall the removed the feature because it was almost unused.
<av`> ScottK, yes, looks like it's now removed...but the wiki pages into help.l.n should be removed IMO
<av`> there are documents about it that refers to nothing
<ScottK> av`: You should take that up on #launchpad
<av`> yep, true
<av`> ScottK, amule is ready, gonna test it a bit again tomorrow, and then it should be ready for the upload
<av`> tomorrow morning should be in I guess :)
<Amaranth> Does anyone know if there is a MC meeting in 9 hours? According to the wiki there should be but the next meeting time says a day that doesn't exist :)
<av`> Amaranth, I see 24th of october
<Amaranth> av`: And the last meeting was the 24th of September, thus the confusion
<Amaranth> av`: It doesn't match the schedule so I'm assuming it's a typo
<av`> Amaranth, tomorrow (friday 10) should be the second friday of the month
<Darxus> LP's build system doesn't prioritize by wheither or not you're a motu, or canonical employee?
<av`> Amaranth, but I dunno if the plans will be respected : /
<Amaranth> Right, 9 hours from now matches the schedule
<av`> yep
<av`> Darxus, https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores
<av`> Amaranth, but I really don't know if there will be one tomorrow (7 utc)
<av`> Amaranth, you should ping any motu-council member around
<ScottK> Actually is was sistpoty that was coordinating the meeting.  He doesn't seem to be around now.
<av`> Amaranth, just be there at 7 utc to be sure :)
<Darxus> vadi2: I read that, which is why I thought user status wasn't included in the priority.  Which seems weird.
<ScottK> Darxus: They aren't
<Darxus> Weird.
<Darxus> They should be, to encourage me to become an motu :P
 * funkyHat is already encouraged to become a motu, don't need no silly build status for that
<av`> Darxus, what's the difference between having a build done today or tomorrow?
<funkyHat> :P
<av`> Darxus, simply nothing
<av`> it's not the day that makes the difference
<av`> if the delay is 1-2-3 days it's fine
<vadi2> Darxus: huh?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-09
<_ps_> Hello, i'm new on the package maintaining. Can anyone introduce some packages for me to get started and learn more?
<_ps_> hellooo?
<cyberix_> Where is the magic that is supposed to create me a debian/tmp directory?
<cyberix_> I'm planning to split one source package into multiple binary packages.
<cyberix_> dh_make creates a rules file that tells me to install the stuff to debian/tmp
<cyberix_> but that directory never appears
<cyberix_> and then installing fails
<hyperair> mkdir it before you call make install
<hyperair> or its equivalent
<hyperair> at least autotools knows how to create its own directories
<hyperair> tell your upstream to fix their buidl system
<cyberix_> ok
<cyberix_> thank you
<leonel> hello :  bug 446838    needs a huge patch  http://squirrelmail.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/squirrelmail?view=rev&revision=13818    for the patch size  can this be included ?? if so  to start with it
<ubottu> Bug 446838 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/446838 is private
<MTecknology> I'm trying to find the link to get a mentor - I keep finding pages about being a mentor
<MTecknology> I think I'm finally ready to try this thing out :)
<nhandler> MTecknology: I think you want https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<MTecknology> thanks
<pan1nx> Hi all...
<pan1nx> Soon, I can celebrate my 2nd month since I am in the reception waiting for a mentor
<pan1nx> Any ways that there is someone here to be my mentor?
<jmarsden> pan1nx: Informally, just ask specific questions here and someone will probably help you out.  The Mentoring process is more formalized and there is currently a backlog.
<pan1nx> mentoring yes, but the reception process is not
<jmarsden> MOTU-Mentoring-Reception is a team of people, not a process, unless I am confused.
<pan1nx> hmm, in order to get a mentor you email the reception and wait
<pan1nx> it is part of the mentoring process to email the reception
<jmarsden> Yes.  Known issue, I'm not a MOTU, but on behalf of those who are... please be patient, and meanwhile, get started on some practucal stuff here :)
<jmarsden> *practical
<jmarsden> pan1nx: Is there something in particular regarding MOTU work that you have questions about or want help with?
<pan1nx> nope
<jmarsden> OK.
<pan1nx> just want to start the process so I can get to MOTU one day and do the work there
<jmarsden> You do not need to use the mentoring process to become a MOTU :)  You just need the skills and experience.
<pan1nx> jmarsden, I've had quite good patience, as 2 months of waiting is not easy :D
<jmarsden> So... if you have no specific questions... dig in and do some work here :)
<dholbach> good morning
<jmarsden> What specifically are you waiting for?  Why not find a bug and fix it and create a debdiff, etc etc.
<pan1nx> jmarsden, ok
<joaopinto> good morning
<jmarsden> dholbach: Good morning
<pan1nx> well, I did that jmarsden...
<pan1nx> and I will continue
<dholbach> hi jmarsden
<jmarsden> pan1nx: Good :)  Then you are not really just waiting...
<pan1nx> ok, I had the wrong impression that it is required to have a mentor... jmarsden
<pan1nx> it looks to me that it is really important when you join that some mentor talks about your achivements...
<pan1nx> but it might be just a wrong assumption...
<jmarsden> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring says "The mentoring program is in no way compulsory" -- but it might help you figure out where your weaknesses are, what to work on next, etc.
<pan1nx> ok, jmarsden, thank for the corrections...
<jmarsden> No problem.
<joaopinto> pan1nx, the important is to do a good work, dependening on yourself a mentor maybe helpful or not, most of the times asking here on the chan is sufficient
<pan1nx> now Chris is online also (huats)... but I think I can do it just by myself...
<dholbach> geser: #ubuntu-meeting?
<geser> dholbach: totally forgot the meeting :(
<dholbach> geser: me too :)
<ari-tczew> .
<slacker_nl> does someone know when ubuntu open week was
<slacker_nl> never mind, found it 31 aug - 4 sep
<Laney> Can I have an informal FFe for hlint please? It restores functionality on armel and ppc
<Laney> and is a leaf package
<sistpoty|work> Laney: ok with me
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> ScottK: ^^^?
<ScottK> Laney: Sure.  Don't break stuff.
<Laney> i'll try not to
<Laney> arg
<Laney>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libghc6-src-exts-dev (>= 1.1) but 1.0.1-1build1 is to be installed.
<Laney>                                  Depends: libghc6-hscolour-dev (>= 1.15) but it is not installable
<Laney> both would need FFe
<Laney> not sure it's worth it
<slacker_nl> is it possible to change the cache location of pbuilder?
<cemc> slacker_nl: should be the --aptcache option
<slacker_nl> cemc: no i mean, for pbuilder create and update commands, it puts stuff in /var/cache/pbuilder and i want that to be a different dir
<slytherin> slacker_nl: check the default pbuilderrc, there is an option.
<slacker_nl> slytherin: BASETGZ you mean?
<cemc> slacker_nl: --basetgz
<slacker_nl> http://pb.opperschaap.net/67
<slytherin> slacker_nl: that and BUILDPLACE
<slacker_nl> slytherin: thnx, seems to work now
<slacker_nl> too bad there isn't a PBUILDHOME variable, so everything is relative to that dir
<MTecknology> Is there any change somebody could look at bug 446582?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446582 in claws-mail "[karmic] claws-mail display is broken by GTK+ 2.18" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446582
<MTecknology> a fix exists for the bug in the package, it just needs to be applied to the ubuntu branch and hopefully applied before karmic release
<james_w> MTecknology: extract the patch, attach it to the bug, then subscribe the sponsor team
 * Laney crushes armel haskell breakage
<MTecknology> james_w: does just a diff file between the two debs work?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> well, not debs
<james_w> debdiff though
<slytherin> MTecknology: No a diff between two source packages. debdiff 1.dsc 2.dsc
<MTecknology> ok, thanks
<asac> ScottK: would you be so kind and poke epiphany-webkit that is in bin NEW ... we lack archive admins over here ;)
<asac> err epiphany-browser
<asac> its universe nowadays
<directhex> ARGH
<directhex> ARGH
<asac> StevenK: ^^ maybe you?
<directhex> um... could an archive admin be a sweetie & reject clr-wallpapers from NEW? meant to send it to my ppa... :(
<directhex> Laney, no laughing
<jdong> directhex: haha is Ubuntu your default upload target?
<directhex> jdong, i plead the 5th!
<jdong> XD
<Laney> directhex: hahahahaha
<Laney> oh wait, *no* laughing
<Laney> I did that once with ghc6, but it wasn't NEW thankfully
<Laney> wait, not thankfully
<Laney> unfortunately
<Laney> good job there wasn't an offensive comment in the changelog eh
<JontheEchidna> bob is my default upload target
<jdong> I did that once with automatix but it was 4/01 ;-)
 * Laney remembers that
 * Laney also remembers a certain someone falling for it
<JontheEchidna> bob doesn't like getting packages, and kindly rejects them all
<jdong> my default upload target insults me ;-)
<MTecknology> slytherin: how do I do this then? this is what I got from diff - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/289327/
<directhex> jdong, i just set one that does so
<jdong> directhex: has anyone in debian-land packaged monodevelop 2.2's prereleases yet?
<sebner> jdong: yeah, directhex and me ;)
<jdong> ooh cool
<jdong> where may I snatch that from? :)
<directhex> still need to remove its moonlight abilities first
<sebner> ok, directhex should get the credits
<directhex> jdong, it's in packaging git or svn, i forget which
<jdong> ok I'll look this afternoon
<slytherin> MTecknology: you need to use debdiff, not diff
<MTecknology> where do I get debdiff from?
<jdong> directhex: btw what's holding back boo? an rdepend I'd guess?
<sebner> directhex: jdong svn
<slytherin> MTecknology: Also you have changed claws-mail upstream version as well which is not correct.
<MTecknology> hu?
<directhex> jdong, sick of chasing a completely unstable ABI. need to discuss how to treat boo, given every upload forces a transition
<jdong> directhex: haha indeed, what stable ABI... :)
<jdong> directhex: evil bounty for a trigger-rdepends-rebuild script? :)
<MTecknology> slytherin: I didn't change anything with there source, I just used 'apt-get source' to pull from their ppa
<cedricv> directhex: there was no ABI change that I know of between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 .....
<directhex> jdong, actually... the main reason for opposition to ABI changes is new ABI means new package name means debian NEW queue, but NEW has sped up enormously
<Laney> cedricv: we are at 082
<directhex> that far back? i think i packaged 0.9something
<cedricv> Laney: hmm i thought 0.9.1 was in unstable
<directhex> boo (0.9.1.3287+dfsg-1) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
<jdong> madison seems to think 0.8 too
<cedricv> at least 0.9 yeah
<Laney> unreleased
<directhex> whomever isn't claiming credit: thanks for erasing my shame!
<MTecknology> directhex: your welcome
<james_w> MTecknology: if there are other changes then just grab the patch that they specify in the comment and attach that
<directhex> ah, a wild james_w! must've been 'im!
<MTecknology> james_w: I'm not too familiar with cvs and afaik, there's not web interface for it
<james_w> I dun nuttin
<MTecknology> james_w: so there is a web interface - and cvs is SO simple
<james_w> Colin said "The patch is fix_gtk218_issues.patch"
<james_w> if you look at the package you downloaded you should find that file
<james_w> probably debian/patches/fix_gtk218_issues.patch
<MTecknology> yup :)
<MTecknology> james_w: patch is out there now
<MTecknology> james_w: and now I assign it to motu?
<MTecknology> james_w: it's assigned
<MTecknology> 90 days is a short membership time
<james_w> MTecknology: no, subscribe (not assign) ubuntu-universe-sponsors please
<MTecknology> sorry
<MTecknology> done
<MTecknology> james_w: anything else I can do for this?
<james_w> MTecknology: just wait for review now
<MTecknology> james_w: any chance this will make it into karmic?
<james_w> I would hope so
<MTecknology> I don't like using an extra PPA when there's no need to :)
<MTecknology> wow - I'm hungry - 2hr till class is over
<randomaction> MTecknology: you haven't attached a debdiff
<MTecknology> randomaction: I was told the patch file is what I need to attach - I don't know how to get the debdiff
<randomaction> there's a general guide at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix, and I can help you with specifics if you want to create it yourself
<ari-tczew> debdiff oldpackage.dsc newpackage.dsc > newpackage.debdiff
<ScottK> asac: cjwatson already got it.
<zooko`> What channel should I use to talk about what seem to be missing dependencies in
<zooko`> maven2?
<cjwatson> asac: I actually did it around two hours before you asked ;-)
<zooko`> I guess I should just open a ticket.
<ari-tczew> now I'm forwarding maven2 and related to my-ppa
<ari-tczew> what are you looking for?
<zooko`> ari-tczew: I don't know what you mean that you are forwarding maven2.
<zooko`> I just apt-get dist-upgraded my karmic workstation and "maven2 --version" fails with an exception.
<zooko`> A bit of googling makes me think that it needs a newer (or older?) version of
<zooko`> plexus
<zooko`> I mean "mvn --version"
<zooko`> http://nexus.sonatype.org/mailing-list-dev-archives.html#nabble-td24954526
<zooko`> Ah, I see that it is already reported as #417164.
<ScottK> Maven is currently pretty broken, but needs manual bootstrapping to be udpated.
<zooko`> Hm, launchpad pops open a dialog box that says "Just mark me as also affected or subscribe me as well", but I can't make that dialog box go away by clicking on the green check mark.  (Using konq in karmic.)
<zooko`> I guess I should take it to #launchpad?
<ScottK> Yes.
<james_w> bug 444714
<ScottK> Launchpad's support of Konqueror took a nose dive in the last release.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444714 in plexus-interpolation "sync request (unstable -> universe) for getting maven built , FFe's granted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444714
<zookow> Could y'all suggest a work-around for me.  I'm new to maven, and my co-workers want to know why I'm wasting time debugging Karmic instead of building this Java/Scala code.
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys. one quick question. I'm about to sponsor an upload, and the contributer has added the Section field for the source in debian/control. However the binary packages in debian/control already have a Section field that are libs and libdevel. So, is it strictly necessary to have that Section field added to the source ?
<james_w> no
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can some archive admin have a look at bug #446917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446917 in grsync "Sync grsync 0.9.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446917
<james_w> not from an archive perspective at least
<james_w> fabrice_sp: is it urgent?
<fabrice_sp> james_w, people are getting nervious in Bug #423755
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423755 in grsync "grsync does not start - GTK critical error" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423755
<fabrice_sp> but it's not a vital issue
<zookow> Okay, my co-workers says that the work-around is uninstall the Ubuntu package of maven2 and install maven2 by downloading a java executable...
<james_w> well they can keep being nervous for a little while longer
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> ok
<james_w> I could spend 5/10 minutes doing it now
<ScottK> james_w: Thanks for the pointer at the bug.  If you'd want to do those sync's, it's be cool.  443292 too.
<james_w> or I could do it with in the next batch, which is significantly less effort
<james_w> bug 443292
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443292 in ubuntu "sync, merges and FFe's need for getting maven built" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443292
<james_w> what a mess
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, so in this case, I should point to the contributor that it is not strictly necessary to have that change and he can drop it, or should I just accept it and ask to forward the changes to debian?
<james_w> RoAkSoAx: I would just drop it if it isn't needed to build the package or fix a bug
<ari-tczew> for admins who working on maven: bug 447382
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447382 in libgoogle-collections-java "[FFe] Sync libgoogle-collections-java 0~20080808-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447382
<fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, I remember seing a lintian about missing section in source
<fabrice_sp> it may explain why the contributor added it
<ari-tczew> FFe approved, needs admin archive bug 427886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427886 in kadu "[FFe] Sync kadu 0.6.5.3-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427886
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, it is not necessary indeed. On the other hand, lintian is also showing other warnings such, howerver I was thinking on asking him to fix this: substvar-source-version-is-deprecated and an error "build-depends-on-obsolete-package". Should I go ahead and ask him to do that?
<james_w> the first isn't necessary
<james_w> it's mainly something that impacts Debian
<james_w> and sometimes isn't broken
<james_w> the second might be important
<james_w> it might require a change to build properly
<james_w> but again, if not then I lean toward minimising change
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, ok so, since the dependency error is a transitional package, we can just leave it as it is for now, right?
<james_w> probably
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, Ok. the dependency error is on tetex-bin, which is a transitional pacakge that only depends on texlive, so we can just go ahead and change it ( It is not affecting the build process)
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, he actually added because in his understanding it was needed, otherwise it won't be accepted in the archive.. but well.. it would be only applicable in debian :)
<fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, ok. So you can just ask him to report to Debian (if not already there :-) )
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, yep, I was just planning on drop that change and ask him to report to Debian, however I was doubting on cleaning that lintian error on the dependency :)
<fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, I've seen packages that FTBFS because of a similar error not corrected in previous versions. Anyway, if the package builds fine, it should also be reported to Debian, and not change it (even if I don't like having lintian errors :-) )
 * fabrice_sp is wondering why all contributors fails to update the maintainer field?!
<fabrice_sp> at least, debuild remind you  to do it
<sistpoty|work> fabrice_sp: only if you have DEBEMAIL set to an ubuntu.com address
<sistpoty|work> fabrice_sp: remind -- as in doesn't build ;)
<fabrice_sp> sistpoty|work, interesting...
<fabrice_sp> yeah: it's a hard reminder! :-)
<sistpoty|work> :)
<zookow> Wow, ant is totally incompatible with the DESTDIR convention and therefore with GNU Stow.  </completely off-topic complaint>
<zookow> Also it takes 1m50s to rebuild even though I just built maven.  Argh!  Quick!  Where's the appropriate channel for bitching about Java software tools sucking?
<jdong> haha isn't that generally accepted? :)
 * zookow joins #patentlyobvious
<sharms> fabrice_sp: very happy upstream acted so fast on that grsync bug
<sharms> that fixes our whole quandry
<fabrice_sp> sharms, yes! :-) It's easier to sync than patching and merging :-)
<sharms> fabrice_sp: thanks a bunch for your help on it
<fabrice_sp> thanks to you for your work on it :-)
<ari-tczew> thnx to james_w for sponsoring drupal's fix
<debfx> fabrice_sp: could you consider sponsoring my pidgin-otr bugfix: bug #310769
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 310769 in pidgin-otr "Cannot copy keys from authenticate window" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310769
<debfx> I changed it to direct-source patches as you requested
<fabrice_sp> debfx, ok. I'll have a look a bit later
<ScottK> Would someone who can manage to change the topic add https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=karmic-autotest please?
<av`> ScottK, I thought everyone could modify topic
<ScottK> Me too, but I've failed when I tried.
<av`> mm..maybe channel flags are set to block someone with no permission to do it
<fabrice_sp> debfx, which change is or which bugfix?
<av`> it's not #d-devel : /
<fabrice_sp> s/or/for/
<debfx> fabrice_sp: otr-plugin.c for key generation, gtk-dialog.c for copy fingerprint
<fabrice_sp> debfx, ok. I'll update the changelog with that info
<debfx> fabrice_sp: ok, I hope the debian maintainer switches to a proper patch system, these direct-source patches really are a mess
<dtchen> pfft, manual zgrepping builds character.
<fabrice_sp> debfx, uploaded. Sorry about the delay: I didn't saw you updated it :-)
<debfx> fabrice_sp: no problem, thanks!
<slytherin> superm1: I have one question. Should lirc-modules-source be moved to 'Recommends' of lirc instead of 'Suggests'?
<Zlatan> juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
<superm1> slytherin, no
<superm1> all the lirc stuff is provided by the kernel
<superm1> that's a stop gap solution if for some reason you need to rebuild the module
<superm1> or patch it or anything
<slytherin> superm1: OK. By the way, the dkms build for lirc-modules-source is failing. Do you want to take a look at log before I file a bug?
<slytherin> superm1: http://paste.ubuntu.com/289461/
<superm1> slytherin, there is a bug opened on it already.  there is a whole lot of lirc stuff that needs to be done.  considering moving to lirc 0.8.6 because it fixes a lot of the stuff actually
<superm1> but it's gonna take a few hours to sit down and sort out whether it's really a good idea
<superm1> what sort of delta it means for the kernel etc
<slytherin> hmm. I haven't yet started using lirc but if I do in next few days I will report back how it is working.
<slytherin> Iwill not file bug now.
<superm1> just dont use lirc-modules-source
<slytherin> I will not.
<sistpoty> anyone up for a practical ftbfs session? starting in a few minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<slytherin> sistpoty: me, for some time at least.
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> randomaction: thanks for multisync90 fix, uploaded
<randomaction> great :)
<RoAkSoAx> sistpoty, lol was about to review it :S xD
<sistpoty> sorry RoAkSoAx
<RoAkSoAx> sistpoty, no prob :)
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, please follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines for claws-mail patch. thank you :)
<randomaction> RoAkSoAx: ok
<directhex> ARGH
<directhex> james_w, :(
<directhex> james_w, i'm copying a fixed dput.cf to all my machines right this second, promise :(
 * directhex sniffles at his own stupidity
<randomaction> RoAkSoAx: reposted
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, awesome! and btw... the Section was indeed necessary, sorry for the confusion.
<randomaction> ok, you still have the old debdiff
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, yes, I already uploaded it. thanks a lot for the contribution
<RoAkSoAx> and sorry for misleading you in that one :(
<randomaction> no problem, debdiffing is cheap :)
<RoAkSoAx> :)
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, btw... you manually copied the claws-mail patch and put it under debian/patches and added a line in debian/patches/series, right?
<randomaction> yes
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, ok, well, you should not do that! Do you want a quick quilt session?
<randomaction> patch - quilt new - quilt add - refresh :)
<randomaction> I verified that the patch applies (in this case with fuzziness)
<randomaction> is there a problem with what I did?
<Amaranth> RoAkSoAx: hehe, that's what I do too
<Amaranth> easier than remembering all the files you have to quilt add before applying the patch
<RoAkSoAx> well the patch might not apply cleanly
<Amaranth> I do test that
<Amaranth> I put it in manually then quilt push to it and refresh it
<RoAkSoAx> right, but you usually need to *strip* the patch by upstream and then apply it into Ubuntu
<randomaction> strip?
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, for example, in the patch available for claws-mail you have to strip it, for i.e.: http://pastebin.com/m2c9d6e0f
<RoAkSoAx> retrieving revision... etc etc... that should not be there
<RoAkSoAx> I never just copy a patch there, and I always apply it *manually*
<randomaction> Is there a reason to do this if the patch system is ok with this patch?
<RoAkSoAx> well I don't remember exactly but I've always been told to apply the patches *manually*, I mean, never just copy a patch to debian/patches
<sistpoty> if it applies and unapplies cleanly, then there isn't any need
<randomaction> do offset hunks count as clean?
<funkyHat> Was thinking of working on bug 445633 but someone else filed it, should I leave it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445633 in pygobject "FTBFS: automake-1.10 missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445633
<sistpoty> randomaction: no (then usually the patch won't unapply cleanly)
<funkyHat> He hasn't assigned it to himself
<sistpoty> funkyHat: feel free to grab it
<sistpoty> funkyHat: that's from the autotests, so anyone to grab it is welcome
<chrisccoulson> yeah, you can probably grab it if he hasn't assigned himself to it already
<sistpoty> funkyHat: btw., -> #ubuntu-classroom, we're doing a ftbfs session there (interactive, aka everyone grabs a package and asks if problems show up)
<chrisccoulson> but he's on #ubuntu-devel if you want to ask him
<RoAkSoAx> siretart, what about when the patch contains things like: RCS file: /srv/cvs/claws-mail/claws/src/mimeview.c,v or retrieving revision 1.83.2.156 ?
<ari-tczew> @maven2 bug 447526
<randomaction> sistpoty: so if I see "Hunk #2 succeeded at 2215 (offset -2 lines).", I should assume that something's wrong?
<sistpoty> randomaction: yes
<ari-tczew> randomaction: please refresh patch manually
<randomaction> well, it's a backported upstream patch, the must have been intermediate revisions
<randomaction> ari-tczew: ok
<randomaction> RoAkSoAx: I'll respin the debdiff
<ari-tczew> maven2 sync required it bug #447526
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447526 in commons-httpclient "[FFe] Sync libcommons-httpclient-java 3.1-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447526
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, ok :)
<randomaction> we should use bzr, not patches :)
<sistpoty> heh
<Bodsda> Hi
<Bodsda> Is there any mentoring systems available for someone wanting to get involved in MOTU?
<RoAkSoAx> Bodsda, there is indeed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<Bodsda> RoAkSoAx: thank you -- gimme a few minutes to do some reading and I'll come back :)
<Bodsda> RoAkSoAx: I have sent in an email to motu-mentoring-reception@responses.net   ---    is it a matter of waiting for a reply now?
<RoAkSoAx> Bodsda, it is. You might wanna check with huats or porthose to see if they received your email :)
<fabrice_sp> Bodsda, you can contribute without having a mentor (and even become a MOTU)
<fabrice_sp> it's not mandatory at all
<Bodsda> fabrice_sp: I know, but I have tried a few times before and often get confused. It would be nice to have someone to get me started
<Bodsda> RoAkSoAx: ok, will do, cheers
<fabrice_sp> Bodsda, you can ask here your questions
<RoAkSoAx> Bodsda, you can always ask here... there's always someone willing to help
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<RoAkSoAx> xD
<Bodsda> fabrice_sp: RoAkSoAx -- ok thansk guys. So... where to start? I have looked through the packaging guide and the contributing pages a few times. What do you suggest
<Bodsda> ?
<Bodsda> Thanks btw, I appreciate the warm nature of the channel
<fabrice_sp> Bodsda, fixing bugs :-D
<RoAkSoAx> Bodsda, well right know we are concentrating on fixing FTBFS(Failed to Build From Source Bugs). Many of these bugs already have a fix in Debian or upstream and we can always just apply it in Ubuntu :)
<fabrice_sp> making small changes to package will aloow you to understand how things works
<Bodsda> fabrice_sp: oh.. I wrote a script for that... fix-bugs --os=ubuntu --amount=all
<Bodsda> RoAkSoAx: ok. So do we have some documentation for this process?
<fabrice_sp> and it works well?
<Bodsda> fabrice_sp: it just prints "Done" -- Was it supposed to do something else?
<Bodsda> :)
<RoAkSoAx> Bodsda, there was actually a session on FTBFS at #ubuntu-classroom
<fabrice_sp> you can have a look at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html to see the packages that fails
<fabrice_sp> find the solutions, and then follow the contribution guide
<fabrice_sp> !contributing
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about contributing
<RoAkSoAx> sistpoty, are there any logs from the previous FTBFS session and/or logs from the session just held at -classroom are going to be published soon?
<Bodsda> fabrice_sp: so, all the packages in red are FTBFS?
<fabrice_sp> yes
<sistpoty> RoAkSoAx: not too sure actually... iirc dholbach wanted to publish a log
<randomaction> RoAkSoAx: if you want to take another look at claws-mail patch, it's ready
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, yep I already did, I'm just finishing my testing to upload :)
<randomaction> ok
<Bodsda> fabrice_sp: do i need to run karmic in a vbox for building yeah?
<Darxus> Bodsda: I think you can build a source package on a non-karmic machine and then upload to a launchpad ppa to have it built for karmic.
<RoAkSoAx> Bodsda, you can use a pbuilder
<Bodsda> Darxus: well, I am just starting so probably best to keep it simple :)
<Bodsda> oh
<Bodsda> ok
<Bodsda> RoAkSoAx: is that info in the packaging guide?
<RoAkSoAx> Bodsda, yes
<Darxus> Bodsda: I think compiling on launchpad is a lot less complicated than setting up a virtual machine.  And you'll need to do somewhere in the process anyway.
<Darxus> Just upgrading to Karmic would be even easier, and it seems pretty stable.
<Bodsda> Darxus: RoAkSoAx -- ok so lemme see if I have this. I need to find a package on this list http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html  then attempt to build it as per the packaging guide?
<randomaction> Bodsda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Bodsda> randomaction: ok, build using that guide, not the packaging one yeah?
<randomaction> this tells you how to set up and use pbuilder
<Bodsda> randomaction: and what is pbuilder used for? (sorry for all the questions)
<randomaction> which will build in karmic environment
<Bodsda> oh i see
<randomaction> I think you'll still need the packaging guide to prepare a package which you'll feed to pbuilder
<Bodsda> Ok, im gonna grab some toast, beer and a cigarette then get stuck in, cheers guys
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, done :) Btw.. I made a little change in the description of the patch. Instead of using one single line I used two for the description
<randomaction> ok, thanks
<RoAkSoAx> randomaction, thank you for your contribution
<randomaction> I'm interested in having claws-mail in good shape )
<RoAkSoAx> :)
<sistpoty> RoAkSoAx: raw logs of the first ftbfs session are at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/09/11/%23ubuntu-motu.html (starting around 20.00)
<joaopinto> ok, checkinstall works
<funkyHat> So I've been going the wrong way with this package the whole time -.-
<sistpoty> funkyHat: if it's a new upstream version in unstable, it might still be feasable to just introduce the patch you've create for kamirc
<joaopinto> sistpoty, who should I subscribe to bug 447601
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447601 in checkinstall "checkinstall FTBFS due to glibc change" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447601
<joaopinto> debdiff is attached
<funkyHat> sistpoty: sorry you've lost me :D
<funkyHat> I was wondering if I should be filing a sync request for the new upstream version
<sistpoty> funkyHat: what version is in debian, what in ubuntu?
<joaopinto> argh, gnote source includes the gnote tarball, ugly
<funkyHat> sistpoty: ubuntu has 2.18.0-0ubuntu1 and debian has 2.20.0-1
<sistpoty> joaopinto: patch looks good, test-building
<sistpoty> funkyHat: that means it's a new upstream version, not just a new debian revision. The easy route is to add your patch, otherwise you'd also need to file a FFe
<joaopinto> gnote on debian is 0.6.2, current on karmic is 0.5.2
<joaopinto> can I simply test and attach a debdiff for the newer version ?
<funkyHat> Oh we're in final freeze, right :D
<sistpoty> funkyHat: not yet, but in FeatureFreeze
<joaopinto> I see the antimono camp coming for gnote missing on karmic
<funkyHat> Ok
<funkyHat> Right, I will stop worrying about what I've submitted to launchpad now then
<sistpoty> joaopinto: it's not mising it just doesn't compile
<joaopinto> sistpoty, from and end user perspective, it's missing
<sistpoty> joaopinto: no, the old binaries are still present for the end user
<sistpoty> joaopinto: however for gnote (no reverse dependencies) I wouldn't mind a new upstream version, but you'd ideally get an ack from seb128 for it
<sistpoty> (he's the delegate for gnome FFe's)
<funkyHat> The Makefile.am is already fixed in 2.20, it seems
<joaopinto> sistpoty, how are FFes relevant for a package that never worked during the dev cycke ?
<joaopinto> cycle
<sistpoty> joaopinto: if it never worked, it'll certainly get accepted... however never worked != fails to build from source (because the binaries from the last working build are still present)
<joaopinto> hum, that was not the case for checkinstall, i was unable to install it
<joaopinto> higher priority FTBFS should be uninstallable packages
<sistpoty> joaopinto: actually I just installed checkinstall from the archive
<sistpoty> ?
<joaopinto> hum
<joaopinto> siretart, must have been my mistake
<joaopinto> so what's the value of fixing FTFBSs at this time ?
<sistpoty> joaopinto: if there's a bug in a package, it can't get fixed unless it's made building again
<sistpoty> joaopinto: this matter much more if we've done the release (noone can try to fix the package until she first fixes the build failure)
<joaopinto> ok, but i don't see that much universe fixes after the release
<cody-somerville> moo
<sistpoty> joaopinto: but having it not even buildable means there'll be even less :/
<joaopinto> ok
<sistpoty> joaopinto: btw, nice work with checkinstall, uploaded, thanks! :)
<wgrant> joaopinto: Security fixes need to happen quickly, but they cannot if the package fails to build.
<joaopinto> wgrant, that is true but that is something you don't see ofter in universe
<joaopinto> often
<wgrant> joaopinto: That is a bug.
<wgrant> And we should not make it even harder.
<sistpoty> joaopinto: oh, just a side note: if you file a bug (e.g. because you need to get sponsored) you can close it by adding LP: #bugnumber in the changelog
 * funkyHat looks for another easyish ftbfs :)
<sistpoty> joaopinto: (i've done that manually now)
<joaopinto> ok, i will ask someone to check my next changelot for the LP close tag
<sistpoty> funkyHat: what about the fix you've been working on?
<joaopinto> anyway, going for the next package, notecase
<sistpoty> joaopinto: it's not a big deal, that way however I get the karma for closing the bug by hand :P
<funkyHat> sistpoty: I'd already attached my debdiff to the bugreport, and after investigating debian, their version is already fixed
<sistpoty> funkyHat: but our version isn't fixed yet?
<funkyHat> bug 445633
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445633 in pygobject "FTBFS: automake-1.10 missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445633
<sistpoty> funkyHat: thanks, looking
<funkyHat> Sorry I should have mentioned I'd uploaded a debdiff
<sistpoty> heh, no problem
<joaopinto> brb, baby
<sistpoty> crack, pygobject is in main... must look very careful then *g*
<sistpoty> funkyHat: mind if I mangle your changelog entry a little bit? http://paste.ubuntu.com/289639/
<funkyHat> sistpoty: not at all
<sistpoty> funkyHat: also I believe autom4te.cache hunks are not needed, I'm trying a test-build w.o. these and would strip them unless you object
<sistpoty> (slightly recalling autotools now)
<funkyHat> Are there guidelines for how to write changelog entries?
<sistpoty> funkyHat: not too sure, but the best guideline is probably: forget everything you know about the package, and try to recall what you did by reading changelog
<sistpoty> funkyHat: at least that's the way I learnt writing changelog entries: I had to do a large number of merges of my own changes, not recalling what I did (and crack, my changelog entries back then were quite crappy)
<joaopinto> no point to add a patch system for adding a few lines of headers, right ?
<sistpoty> joaopinto: general rule of thumb: if the package is from debian, reuse the same patch system as debian (seeing none as a choice for a patch system as well)
<joaopinto> ok
<sistpoty> joaopinto: otherwise for ubuntu originated packages, I don't see a reason to add one for a simple patch, but other developers might have other preferences
<joaopinto> erm, a package linking with it's own zlib copy ? is that allowed ?
<RoAkSoAx> sistpoty, thanks for the logs
<sistpoty> joaopinto: allowed: yes. good: no
<sistpoty> (it's pretty common though, afaict)
<joaopinto> well, not a good time to fix it
<sistpoty> that's also true (unless the diff of the zlib copy and the zlib archive sources is empty)
<joaopinto> the zlib is being compiled ang linked in
<sistpoty> funkyHat: uploaded, thanks!
<funkyHat> yaay :)
 * funkyHat dances
#ubuntu-motu 2009-10-10
<joaopinto> sistpoty,
<joaopinto> notecase (1.9.8-0ubuntu3) karmic; urgency=low
<joaopinto>   * FTBFS: Added include <stdio.h> to IniFile.h (LP: #447628)
<joaopinto> like this ?
<sistpoty> joaopinto: that's excellent!
<joaopinto> ok, goind go attach the debdiff now
<joaopinto> going to
 * funkyHat hasn't found any other FTBFS that aren't C or C++ problems :(
<joaopinto> hum, there is a change which was not done by me
<joaopinto> -Architecture: i686
<joaopinto> +Architecture: amd64
<joaopinto> oh, deb dir
<joaopinto> this is some temporary dir as part of the building process
<joaopinto> notecase-1.9.8/deb/control
<joaopinto> sistpoty, the package building source touchs a deb dir, it was no my change, i'll keep it in in the debdiff
<sistpoty> sure thing, amd64 does make more sense imho ;)
<joaopinto> done, bug 447628
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447628 in notecase "FTBFS, missing header include" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447628
<sistpoty> joaopinto: the changed file doesn't seem to be one I'd worry about. patch looks good :), test-building
<joaopinto> I would like to update a package to a newer version: http://icculus.org/referencer/ChangeLog, the new version is from August and it's mostly bugfixes
<joaopinto> well, maybe is to late for that
<joaopinto> I hate fixing problems on out-dated packages
<sistpoty> joaopinto: sorry, was afk for a minute, and notecase failed to build for me (not your fault, problems with mirror on my side, retrying)
<joaopinto> I did a test build on a karmic schroot
<sistpoty> joaopinto: yes, as I wrote it's not your fault (my pbuilder failed to download build-deps, due to 403 on my mirror, grmpf)
<sistpoty> ah, better now, compiling :)
<sistpoty> joaopinto: in regards to referencer, imo it makes sense to file a FFe if it builds fine and subscribe seb128 (his terrain)
<sistpoty> at least from a quick read of changelog
<joaopinto> I am not experienced in those processes, i will just fix the ftbfs for now
<sistpoty> !FFE
<ubottu> uvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<joaopinto> if the new version was not request, is because no one care about it until now
<joaopinto> requested
<sistpoty> joaopinto: gnome is a little bit special due to its release cycle being coordinated with Ubuntu's
<joaopinto> there are some bugs reported about referencer, they would need to be checked and validated against the new version
<sistpoty> joaopinto: question is if it's a package fallling under that release cycle
<sistpoty> joaopinto: btw: notecase uploaded, thanks again!
<joaopinto> yw :)
<joaopinto> I am just test building referencer now
<captivus> Hello.  I have, embarrassingly, forgotten my passphrase for the OpenPGP key I created when I created my LP account a few months back.
<captivus> (I've clearly not used it since then.)
<captivus> Anyone have any suggestions?
<sistpoty> captivus: revoke that key and create a new one?
<captivus> Ok.  How do I do that?
<captivus> Oh, wait -- I'd have had to have created a revocation key, right?
<captivus> How do I know if I created one?
<captivus> (I don't recall doing that.)
<sistpoty> captivus: using your revocation certificate that you've printed on paper and stored in your treasury once you generated the old key?
<captivus> Oh, well that would be sensible ...
<captivus> ... I definitely didn't do that.
<sistpoty> captivus: then do that for the key you generate now ;)
<captivus> sistpoty: LOL!  I'm going to be forever haunted by the ghost of this old key.  It's going to be lingering out there associated with my name forever.
<captivus> God, that's so embarrassing.
<sistpoty> captivus: yes, happened to me as well :(
<joaopinto> sistpoty, bug 447659
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/447659/+text)
<sistpoty> joaopinto: looking
<sistpoty> joaopinto: that's c++?
<sistpoty> joaopinto: if so the really correct header is <cstdint>
<joaopinto> siretart, yes, it's c++
<joaopinto> ops :\
<joaopinto> used the C header
<sistpoty> joaopinto: I'll fix this before uploading, ok?
<joaopinto> ok
<joaopinto> sistpoty, it fails to compile if you include <cstdint>
<joaopinto> /usr/include/c++/4.4/c++0x_warning.h:31:2: error: #error This file requires compiler and library support for the upcoming ISO C++ standard, C++0x. This support is currently experimental, and must be enabled with the -std=c++0x or -std=gnu++0x compiler options.
<sistpoty> joaopinto: ah, crack, that that was solved with -4.4 now
<sistpoty> thought that... even
<sistpoty> joaopinto: another tiny change: I've updated the maintainer field... ok?
<joaopinto> ok
<sistpoty> argh, me hates de.archive.ubuntu.com today. mirrors don't seem to be in agreement depending which ip resolve to the name
<sistpoty> (and one constantly says 403)
<joaopinto> lighttpd looks another candidate for FFe
<joaopinto> but that should be requested by someone really using it
<joaopinto> argh, lighttpd calls automake, it produces a big debdiff, is that ok to fix FTBFS ?
<sistpoty> joaopinto: sure, if it's only autotools files there's no problem
<sistpoty> joaopinto: hm, you're fixing faster than I can sponsor :P (referencer uploaded, thanks!)
<joaopinto> sistpoty, bug 447672
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447672 in lighttpd "FTBFS, needs automake1.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447672
<joaopinto> I only changed debian/control and added the changelog entry, all the other diff is autotools
<sistpoty> joaopinto: patch is ok, but debian/changelog is erm, very brief. can you be a little bit more verbose there? ;)
<joaopinto> erm, more verbose how ? I just noted it needed automake1.10 because configure invoked aclocal-1.10 :P
<sistpoty> joaopinto: as in * debian/control: change build-dependency of ... * rerun autotools
<jbernard_> i just posted a patch for Bug #447677, if anyone has a sec to review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447677 in libgems-ruby "libgems-ruby FTBFS, typo in debian/rules" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447677
<sistpoty> <- out for 5 minutes, will continue reviewing then
<quidnunc> When trying to run sudo do-release-upgrade -d I get "Building old list of packages... errors present. Is apt/dpkg running?" Anyone know what the problem is?
<joaopinto> well, rerun autotools was not an explicit action, actually I could just trim dow the diff
<quidnunc> Or, how can I run do-release-upgrade with debug logging on?
<joaopinto> quidnunc, this channel is not for support, try #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1
<quidnunc> Sorry
<joaopinto> sistpoty, i will be attaching a new diff, without the autotools changes
<sistpoty> joaopinto: thanks!
<sistpoty> jbernard_: excellent, thanks! can you forward the patch to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=549778 please?
<ubottu> Debian bug 549778 in unknown "libgems-ruby: FTBFS: cannot stat" [Serious,Open]
<joaopinto> brb
<jbernard_> sistpoty: yep, im working on it right now
<jbernard_> sistpoty: i crosslinked to the deb bug in LP
<sistpoty> :)
<sistpoty> jbernard_: uploaded, thanks!
<jbernard_> sistpoty: awesome! thanks man
<joaopinto> sistpoty, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lighttpd/+bug/447672
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447672 in lighttpd "FTBFS, needs automake1.10" [Undecided,New]
<sistpoty> joaopinto: looks great, test-building again
<sistpoty> joaopinto: lighttpd uploaded, thanks!
<superm1> sistpoty, re bug 432678 there is a kernel component that needs to be updated too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432678 in lirc "Please update LIRC to 0.8.6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432678
<superm1> it's been on my TODO for the last week or so to fully investigate
<superm1> but it's a daunting task.  i always shrug whenever i need to touch LIRC
<superm1> if you can make a call in terms of the FFe, i'll sort out the technical details if you lean towards yes though
<sistpoty> superm1: thanks for the info
<sistpoty> superm1: basically having you sort out details is what makes me lean very much towards it
<sistpoty> superm1: the FFe only sounded as if we'd need to make changes to the stock kernel of which noone is aware yet ;)
<superm1> which is true
<superm1> there is a LIRC patchset that sits on top of the kernel
<sistpoty> superm1: will that patchset work with an older lirc?
<superm1> no it won't
<superm1> so it's either new LIRC + new patches to kernel
<superm1> or stay with the current stuff
<sistpoty> superm1: hm, are you ok if I'll elevate this to ubuntu-release then?
<superm1> sistpoty, yeah however you'd like to do it.  i'll clone a kernel and try to look into the technical details over the weekend
<sistpoty> superm1: excellent, thanks!
<superm1> it's worth mentioning the patches apply directly to a lirc/ directory and don't hurt anything else ever
<superm1> so as long as they're verified to compile, they're harmless
<sistpoty> <- doesn't know much about the kernel and certainly doesn't feel qualified to decide about kernel matters :P
<joaopinto> sistpoty, check bug 447701 please , and now i am going to bed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447701 in wallpaper-tray "FTBFS, unable to find boost libraries" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447701
<sistpoty> <- falls into bed now.. gn8 everyone
<mzz> How do I get debuild (or dpkg-buildpackage, or whatever's actually doing this) to show me the commandline used for "Now running lintian..."? I'm getting a complaint there (bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file unstable) that lintian -iIE --pedantic does not give me.
<mzz> ah! I need to run it on the changes file, not on the dsc
<mzz> (I'm guessing that always runs more checks?)
<surfzoid> Hi, after a build package request at bugzilla, it took usually long time to see it in ubuntu ?
<surfzoid> oups sorry, i mean launchpad not bugzilla :-)
<av`> surfzoid, package name?
<surfzoid> MonoOSC,  day ago :-)
<surfzoid> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/443398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443398 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] MonoOSC" [Wishlist,New]
<surfzoid> 5 days ago
<surfzoid> av`: not so long :-)
<av`> surfzoid, give me a sec and I have a look at it, finishing something
<surfzoid> hey, oki, very nice :-)
<joaopinto> surfzoid, not goind to happen for this release
<joaopinto> ops, gone
<slacker_nl> i'm reading some of the chat logs of ubuntu developer week, why does dholbach installs some of the packages with no-install-recommends? apt-get install --no-install-recommends bzr ubuntu-dev-tools devscripts dpkg-dev cdbs
<Laney> motu-release folks: would http://projects.qnetp.net/versions/show/9 get a FFe you think?
<joaopinto> can someone check and upload the fix for bug 447933 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447933 in boinc "FTBFS, not using system functions after detecting them" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447933
<Laney> joaopinto: is the patch upstream?
<joaopinto> no, I am going to send it now
<Laney> ok
<joaopinto> report upstream now
<joaopinto> reported
<joaopinto> who should I subcribe when no one is available for FTBFS bugs ?
<Laney> this package takes ages to build
<joaopinto> Laney, it does :P
<jbernard_> joaopinto: i've been subscribing 'universe sponsors' to my FTBFS bugs
<Laney> oh there it's finished
<joaopinto> jbernard_, ok tks, Laney you are working on it right ?
<Laney> joaopinto: uploaded
<joaopinto> Laney, tks
<Laney> please could you send it to debian too?
<joaopinto> Laney, I have sent it to the upstream authors, it will land into debian on the next update
<Laney> joaopinto: they might want to fix the ftbfs more immediately
<joaopinto> ok
<av`> jbernard_, did you do any FTBFS fix recently?
<joaopinto> Laney, bug 447967
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447967 in bombardier "FTBFS, GCC errors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447967
<av`> joaopinto, the LP: xxxx field is broken
<joaopinto> ops, forgot to update the source diff
<ari-tczew> aloha
<joaopinto> av`, fixed
<av`> joaopinto, where did you grab that patch from?
<joaopinto> av`, from myself
<joaopinto> and yes, I have sent it upstream and to debian which is the same
<mok0> Oh great, karmic upgrade  broke my sbuilder :-(
<joaopinto> Laney, looking at 447967 or should I subscribe universe sponsors ?
<joaopinto> that one is an easy build
<joaopinto> it's a text game :P
<hyperair> anyone from motu-release here? i'd like to inquire whether i can just upload a snapshot of banshee for the time being, and then get 1.5.1 uploaded post-release?
<hyperair> from 1.4.3 to 1.5.0 there are approx 139 bugfixes (grepped the BGO keywords from git log)
<hyperair> and from 1.5.0 to date is 84 bugfixes
<hyperair> s/is/are/
<hyperair> and while they say 1.5.1 is going to be released really soon, they haven't yet and won't give a date.
<sistpoty> hyperair: you mean to get 1.5.1 in via an sru?
<hyperair> yes
<sistpoty> hm...
<hyperair> well, i'm not sure whether 1.5.1 is going to arrive before or after karmic
<hyperair> if before, then sru not needed, i suppose
<sistpoty> directhex: what's your opinion wrt. banshee?
<joaopinto> sistpoty, when you have some please check 447967
<sistpoty> joaopinto: funny, actually I'm already looking at it ;)
<joaopinto> I have a FTBFS for a game that will break the -data dependency rule, is there a proper fix apart from replaceing SourceVersion with an hardcoded version ?
<joaopinto> otherwise it would require a -data reupload with the newer version
<sistpoty> joaopinto: which one is it?
<joaopinto> ceferino
<joaopinto> ceferino_0.97.8-2.dsc -> ceferino_0.97.8-2ubuntu1.dsc
<joaopinto> hum, maybe I can use UpstreamVersion instead ?
<ari-tczew> if you want new upstream, you need open a ffe request
<joaopinto> it's not a new upstream version
<joaopinto> it's a FTBFS fix, which requires a debian version bump, which breaks the depend rule for -data
<joaopinto> I beleive there is an UpstreamVersion macro, which could be a solution
<ari-tczew> give bug's number
<joaopinto> ari-tczew, bug 447994, but I don't need help with the bug per si, just how to address the -data depend change :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447994 in ceferino "FTBFS, GCC4.1.1 error, variable name conflict with a class name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447994
<sistpoty> joaopinto: bombardier uploaded
<joaopinto> sistpoty, tks
<sistpoty> joaopinto: there should be a macro for the upstream version, let me look
<joaopinto> tried ${source:UpstreamVersion}, is not it :\
<sistpoty> joaopinto:  source:Upstream-Version
<sistpoty> joaopinto: see deb-substvars manpage
<joaopinto> ops, was missing the -
<joaopinto> erm, wait, I am nuts, -data is also built from this source package
<sistpoty> that simplifies things ;)
<joaopinto> sistpoty, bug 447994
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447994 in ceferino "FTBFS, GCC4.1.1 error, variable name conflict with a class name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447994
 * sistpoty reads the c++ iso spec to find out if that is indeed a bug in ceferino
<joaopinto> bbl
<sistpoty> yes, looks like grafico overrides the type name in the declarator list, so a bug in ceferino (at least from my interpretation of the c++ spec)
<pkern> sistpoty: Hi.  So there is indeed a file conflict on gnome-audio vs. ubuntu-sounds AFAICS (card_shuffle.wav).  How to proceed from there, considering that ubuntu-sounds is in main whereas gnome-audio is not?
<sistpoty> pkern: hm... let me recheck
<pkern> sistpoty: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-sounds/+bug/343288 fwiw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343288 in ubuntu-sounds "Unneccesary conflict with gnome-audio" [Undecided,New]
<sistpoty> pkern: indeed didn't see card_shuffle.wav
<pkern> sistpoty: Shipping the file in the package would of course also fix the problem, but I guess we don't really want that.  Or reusing a sound file from ubuntu-sounds if there's something suitable.
<pkern> sistpoty: However in the long term that should be fixed.  \-:
<sistpoty> pkern: I guess the best fix would be to move card_shuffle in ubuntu-sounds to the subdirectory.. though I'm not sure what uses the file and would need to be adjusted
<sistpoty> pkern: maybe a dirty hack would be to declares replaces on ubuntu-sounds/gnome-audio w.o. conflicts?
<sistpoty> pkern: I guess you could also ask seb128 for directions
<pkern> sistpoty: Then it would be semi-random, though, who'll own that file.
<sistpoty> pkern: yes, that's why I wrote dirty hack
 * sistpoty is off again, cya
<pkern> TheMuso: ^^
<captivus> Hello.  How do I know if a package I am building will need the .ex and .EX files?
<hyperair> erm experience?
<hyperair> probably
<hyperair> heheh
<hyperair> well some of them are documented in comments inside them
<captivus> Yes, well I was hoping that there was a comprehensive explanation of the files and their use somewhere, but I can't seem to find one on the wiki
<directhex> someone rang?
<soc> hi
<soc> how can i see which libraries are used by an executabke?
<directhex> soc, assuming it's an ELF binary, with "ldd"
<Laney> directhex: re: uploading a git snapshot of banshee
<soc> ldd /usr/bin/hp-setup
<directhex> Laney, then SRU to 151?
<Laney> yes
<soc> not a dynamic executable
<directhex> soc, no, it's not. it's a python script.
<soc> ah thanks
<directhex> Laney, if we can SRU to 1.5.1, do you think a git snapshot is better than 1.5.0?
<Laney> yeah for sure
<Laney> I've been running the dailies for ages
<directhex> either is better than 1.4.3. i just have a general gut reaction to snapshots
<Laney> cody-somerville, jdong: Would you agree in principle to a Karmic SRU from a git snapshot of Banshee to the release if it happens after release?
<Laney> I reckon that head currently is pretty much what 151 will be anyway
<directhex> i think that's quite possibly the case. mac bugs causing delays, isn't it?
<Laney> not sure
<jdong> Laney: well I would like to see at that point the diff and also what Ubuntu bugs it'd close, but in principle I see nothing wrong with that
<funkyHat> nooo inkscape I need you to work properly -.-
<directhex> jdong, can you REJECT something from NEW?
<jdong> hahaha I'm not that magical :)
<Laney> cool beans
<Laney> directhex: yay or nay?
<Laney> also, did you do it again?
<Laney> hahaha
<directhex> Laney, i fixed my dput.cf! on, erm, my office pc. then i did it again at home :(
<Laney> amazing
<jdong> directhex: HAHAHAHA
<directhex> Laney, on a related note, i feel *way* more sleepy & headachey than i did when attacking the archive with bad uploads. so better if you coordinate my "yay" with hyperair
<sebner> directhex: you should really hide somewhere
 * jdong can totally see the archive admins chasing after directhex with a bat
<directhex> jdong, apparently slangasek expects beer. beer is an acceptable penance
 * james_w takes his archive admin bat and applies it to clr-wallpapers
<james_w> and it is out of here!
<directhex> ta james_w
<directhex> going to the karmic release party in london?
<james_w> I reckon you are just trying to catch someone asleep at the wheel so that it ends up in karmic
<james_w> not sure
<james_w> I have to head down sometime that week
<directhex> 'cos i owe you a beer now
<james_w> but we haven't arranged the meeting yet
<james_w> hah
<james_w> clicking a button != a beer
<hyperair> directhex: what?
<directhex> hyperair, "yes" to banshee snapshot in karmic, but i'm too headachey to check it
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> well then i'll work on it
<hyperair> so.. first step is to file a bug i suppose... what information should i include? diff (debdiff?), list of bugs it'd fix, what else?
<hyperair> also, is there an easy way to get the bug # of a launchpad bug linked to a certain BGO bug#?
<hyperair> as in, i have the BGO bug #, and i'd like to get the launchpad bug # linked to it
<directhex> i don't know if launchpadlib can search on that
<hyperair> hmm
<ari-tczew> james_w: could you review again drupal's security bug #431080 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431080 in drupal6 "Fix critical security vulnerability (SA-CORE-2009-008)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431080
<LtWorf> hello
<LtWorf> i am the debian mantainer of a package, and i was sent here from #ubuntu to ask how could it be inserted in ubuntu's repositories too
<azeem> it's a pretty bad time right now because AFAIK the Ubuntu repository is frozen for the 9.10 release
<azeem> however, in general you can file a sync request bug I guess and it will be acted upon after release
<Laney> we'll get it automatically after Karmic releases
<Laney> if it's a new package
<mok0> LtWorf: it will be sync'ed automatically for lucid
<mok0> LtWorf: no need to do anything
<LtWorf> mh ok... i'll try to figure out what a sync request bug is :)
<mok0> LtWorf: It's just a bug that says: please sync ... blah blah ... from unstable
<mok0> LtWorf: but you only need that after "Debian Import Freeze"
<LtWorf> mok0: and what "Debian Import Freeze" is?
<azeem> the end of automatic syncs
<mok0> right
<LtWorf> ok thanks to everybody.. goodbye
<mok0> LtWorf: In the beginning of a cycle, there are regular imports of packages from unstable
<mok0> Bye :-)
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ping?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, could you please take a look to bug #430913
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430913 in intrepid-backports "Please backport nginx 0.6.35 to Hardy, Intrepid from Jaunty Security" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430913
 * jdong takes a look
<jdong> looks good to me
<jdong> RoAkSoAx: sponsored
<RoAkSoAx> thanks jdong :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-11
<RAOF> Whether the BIOS can actually set that mode for us.
<RAOF> We don't have a graphics driver at that point; we're relying on VESA.
<persia> The BIOS sets it, even when it's on kernel command line?
<RAOF> Well, VESA calls into the graphics BIOS.
<persia> Oh.  I see.  Ugly that.
<RAOF> So, if you're lucky, the graphics BIOS will actually contain a mode that your attached display can use.  And if you're even luckier, we can pick that :)
<RAOF> If you're unlucky, the graphics BIOS doesn't contain a mode your panel will display *at all*, and we pick something that results in the screen turning off until X starts.
<persia> Which is why we tend to display the text interface when we don't have the necessary kernel bits?
<RAOF> Well, for Lucid we used vga16fb, which was ugly but worked.
<RAOF> *For values of âworkedâ which included âbroke people's graphics in certain, not too uncommon, casesâ
 * RAOF is not sad to see the back of vga16fb.
<persia> That's suspiciously similar to "didn't work" for values of "didn't work" that included "accidental success in certain, not too uncommon, cases"
<RAOF> We *were* going to use the EFI fb driver in Maverick, I think, but that got shelved.
<persia> Do we have meaningful EFI information for many cases?
<persia> I have *one* EFI device of the 11 Ubuntu installations on my desk.
<persia> (and it's special EFI that doesn't work with the standard EFI stuff)
<RAOF> My memory of the conversations I had about it is that the EFI framebuffer driver was magic, and worked everywhere.
<persia> Well, either you go to really good parties, or we should be using this.
<RAOF> The kernel guys & keybuk & Colin were working on it in Prague, but it slipped.
<persia> Do you know if it happens to also magically work for armel/ppc?
<RAOF> Heh.  Sure!  It's magic! :)
<persia> Excellent.
<RAOF> (Statements may not actually correspond to reality)
<persia> But they might.  With lucid, nouveau+KMS changed my powerpc/nvidia install from text to graphical for plymouth.
<persia> I somehow doubt that was by the intent of anyone concerned with nouveau or plymouth directly.
<gilir> n
<ari-tczew> hey gilir
<gilir> hi ari-tczew
<micahg> superm1: sorry, I just duped your dupe for that $TERM bug
<superm1> no problems, i wasn't aware of the original until i did a quick google, which i should have done before adding a task :)
<persia> Which bug?  My $TERM issue mysteriously disappeared about 3 weeks ago, and I thought it was sorted.
<micahg> persia: bug 621927
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621927 in Ubuntu release notes "Embedded Terminal Emulator isn't giving a TERM variable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621927
<persia> Oh, yeah, I'd believe that.  Changes in VTE that didn't get where they needed.
<iefremov> Hi All! Can anybody say what means "format '3.0 (quilt)' is not permitted in natty" notification after dputting a new package? Should I change the source format or just wait until upload to natty will be opened?
<Hobbsee> the latter
<Hobbsee> at elsat
<Hobbsee> *least
<iefremov> ok, I see
<iefremov> and what's wrong with quilt?
<Hobbsee> i've no idea, but the natty toolchain hasn't been built yet, so i don't think anything's being allowed in
<iefremov> ok, thanks for the help
<persia> For the avoidance of doubt, it's quite likely that every other format is also not permitted in natty
<iefremov> :) looks reasonable
<wgrant> Ah, heh, I guess that has replaced the obscure "could not build architecture 'any'" error.
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<Rhonda> There is no natty dists in the archives, I would consider that being a very good indicator that uploads shouldn't be done yet. :)
<AnAnt> ScottK: ping
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 13 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Maverick is released.  Lots of SRUs to be done. | Natty exists, but is only open for toolchain uploads.  | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.o
<josephnexus> hello everyone
<ari-tczew> hello josephnexus
<josephnexus> i see that the ogre packages and nvidia-cg packages have been fixed in this release, but those funny funguloids is still broken (due to simply using outdated data)
<josephnexus> i've filed a bug about it, because this causes a segfault whenever you try to start playing, would it be possible for the motu team, being the masters of the universe, to gett he new data and whip up a fixed package?
<dyfet> I have an interesting (from a policy perspective) package bug, which is a remote exploit, that is only fixed in a rather new upstream release (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ziproxy/+bug/657024), I want to understand the best way of addressing this kind of issue, whether as a sync as proposed, or something different.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 657024 in ziproxy (Ubuntu) "please sync 3.1.3-1 from debian (unstable) to replace 2.7.2-1ubuntu2 in Maverick (universe) - security vulnerability" [Undecided,New]
<ari-tczew> josephnexus: if you will prepare a patch, motu can sponsor it as SRU.
<josephnexus> i have no clue how to prepare a patch :-(
<ari-tczew> josephnexus: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Debdiff and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<ari-tczew> dyfet: I can't believe that security patch is not exist and is available only through full upstream release.
<josephnexus> ok, I don't think that I need the diff, since this is only resolving the data package, not the binary
<dyfet> ari-tczew: I was going by what debian did to resolve this
<josephnexus> http://funguloids.sourceforge.net/files/funguloids-patches.tar.bz2 <--- contains everything needed
<ari-tczew> dyfet: I understand, but security fixes are not welcome through syncs. Please investigate in upstream for stricte patch.
<josephnexus> looks like there are patches to the binary :-(
<josephnexus> i'm only a php dev, never done any python or ogre stuff.... so this is all above me :-(
<dyfet> ari_tczew: I have also been looking through the changelog to see if I can identify when/which version this actually got fixed to see if it may be possible to create a diff from/patch from a specific change upstream.  If that is preferred I would be happy to see if this can be done.
<dyfet> (the upstream source's changes...)
<ari-tczew> dyfet: please use [TAB] for complete nicknames on IRC. for example, please write 'ari' and click [TAB]
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: ping
<ari-tczew> dyfet: I think that if you will create a debdiff between upstream 3.0.0 and 3.0.1 you will gain security patch.
<dyfet> ari-tczew, that I can try and see it it can be back patched to our 2.7.2.  I thought there might be other changes also related to this bug from reading the upstream changelog.  But I will see what this approach yields first.
<ari-tczew> dyfet: great
<dyfet> ari-tczew, I guess I will assign it to me for now :)
<ari-tczew> dyfet: are you available to test patched package?
<dyfet> ari-tczew, yes.  Originally I did an arm patch for this package.
<ari-tczew> dyfet: great. if you will create a debdiff, please subscribe ubuntu-security-sponsors. maybe I'll review/ACK your patch.
<ari-tczew> is it candidate to papercuts? bug 653274
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653274 in linux (Ubuntu) "Plymouth doesn't show Kubuntu or Ubuntu logo with Nvidia proprietary driver" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653274
<ari-tczew> lucas: ping
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: did the logo show in lucid? I don't remember
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: yes, for me yes
<ari-tczew> IIRC this bug has been introduced at the end of August, maybe in half of September
<ScottK> It shows fine with Intel/other free drivers.
<kklimonda> ScottK: sure, but if the logo did show in lucid and it doesn't in maverick then it's weird.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<ari-tczew> a lot of ubuntu users have got nvidia cards. it's not good ad for ubuntu with that ugly plymouth.
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: it's not our call, really
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: who is?
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: the workaround from the linked script doesn't work for everyone so the only way to really fix is for nvidia to support kms
<ari-tczew> I hope that core developers will fix this bug ASAP.
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: but they can't really do much
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: unless I'm dreaming
 * kklimonda suggests using open drivers - the do work like a charm here
<josephnexus> i just fixed the issue in plymouth by following a forum tutorial, i'm going to see if it works
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: yep?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: could you sponsor new package in Debian?
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: Â«it dependsÂ». What package?
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: clementine. ACKed on revu.
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: would be nice if you give me tips to improve package for Debian.
<lfaraone> ari-tczew: are you the maintainer? David Sansome is listed as the OM on REVU, but you're the one who uploaded it.
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: I want to be a maintainer for clementine.
<ari-tczew> and I prepared a ready source.
<ari-tczew> lfaraone: I marked davidsansome as maintainer, because he wanted to be, but I would to own clementine. I have knowledge in ubuntu packaging.
<lucas> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> lucas: is it possible to use your UDD merges script with filter where maintainer is: Debian QA Group ?
<lucas> ari-tczew: yes, just look at the source, find the appropriate query, and modify it
<lucas> ari-tczew: it's quite easy
<ari-tczew> lucas: merges.py file?
<lucas> ari-tczew: http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/collab-qa/udd/web/cgi-bin/merges.json.cgi?revision=1764&view=markup
<ari-tczew> lucas: I'm thinking that appropriate query is 'sth'
<ari-tczew> lucas: btw. it's time to change ubu release to natty.
<ScottK> debfx: Congratulations.
* ScottK changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Maverick is released.  Lots of SRUs to be done. | Natty exists, but is only open for toolchain uploads.  | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congratulations to new MOTU: debfx.
<micahg> debfx: congrats
<debfx> micahg: thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-12
<Rhonda> Hmm. Shall I upload my built packages for Bug #656850 somewhere? I mean, it's not like it's rocket science, there are no source changes involved at all?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656850 in lucid-backports "Please backport wesnoth-1.8 (1:1.8.5-1/universe)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656850
<Rhonda> Potential to a PPA? Never used PPA before, and I guess I'll have to version it differently there, too?
<wgrant> Rhonda: I'd tend to reversion it to 1:1.8.5-1~ppa1 and upload to a PPA.
<wgrant> Hm, but if it's for backports, ~karmic1~ppa1 and ~lucid1~ppa1 may be better.
<wgrant> So the official backports will clobber them.
<Rhonda> not rather... yes, that's my thought. ;)
<dholbach> good morning! :)
<Laney> morning
<\sh> hey Laney
<Rhonda> natty is already in the archive. :)
<hyperair> whut, seriously?
<Rhonda> hyperair: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/
 * geser has already upgraded his pbuilder to natty :)
<persia> Just so folks don't get too excited, natty isn't really ready yet.
<hyperair> woow
<hyperair> aw man?
 * hyperair checks his own mirror
<Rhonda> persia: of course not, not before 6 month  :P
<hyperair> lol Rhonda.
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty still says "Pre-release freeze"
<geser> and the first FTBFS in natty exist too :)
<Rhonda> Hmm, never have done an SRU â¦
<Rhonda> Anyone got a hint how to turn bug #656238 into a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656238 in gitolite (Ubuntu) "Sync gitolite 1.5.4-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656238
<geser> Rhonda: extract the change for the mkdir call and apply it to the version in maverick (the translation changes probably won't qualify for SRU)
<persia> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Rhonda> geser: Feared something like that. ;)
<Rhonda> persia: Am on that page right now, yes. :)
<persia> Just wanted to make sure :)
<Rhonda> I'll have to wait for gitolite to get synced into natty first it seems anyway.
<Rhonda> btw., my latest blog post will apply to natty, too
 * Rhonda . o O ( the one about sudo )
<geser> Rhonda: usually this requirement is waived that short after release to not block until natty it fully opened
<persia> The requirement is *always* so waived: a full copy of maverick-updates -> natty will be some of the first uploads
<persia> (although I forget if it's actually on the release open checklist)
<soren> Rhonda: That has been the default sudo behaviour for Ubuntu for years.
<soren> Rhonda: so yes, it does apply, but it shouldn't be a surprise to existing Ubuntu users.
<Rhonda> soren: Hmm, I only find it mentioned in the changelog, not within the rest of the diff?
<soren> Rhonda: Eh?
<Rhonda> soren: http://patches.ubuntu.com/s/sudo/sudo_1.7.2p7-1ubuntu2.patch
<Rhonda> That mentions tty_ticket only in the changelog.
<Rhonda> I would have expected it to be part of a different file, too
<soren> Rhonda: I don't follow the logic here, sorry. It only mentions it in the changelog => the code changes must already be applied, right?
<soren> Besides:
<soren>   * Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:
<soren>    - debian/rules: Disable lecture, enable tty_tickets by default. (Ubuntu
<soren>      specific)
<soren> From 1.7.0-1ubuntu1 (sudo in karmic).
<soren> I'm /fairly/ certain it's been this way forever.
<Rhonda> soren: Yes, in the changelog. But nowhere else in the diff?
<soren> *precisely*
<Rhonda> The changelog is just a textfile. It has to be in some other place within the diff, too.
<soren> If you only see it mentioned in the text file, it's because it didn't change in the code. If it didn't change in the code, that's because it was that way before.
<persia> There's another option.
<Rhonda> But it can't.
<Rhonda> The switch was done in 1.7.4 by upstream.
<persia> It may have changed in Debian since it was changed in Ubuntu, and the last merger may have failed to understand the code well enough to drop it from the changelog.
<Rhonda> persia: No, it's explicitly marked in the 1.7.4 upstream changes.
<soren> Ok, now I'm actually looking at the patch,you're linking to..
<soren> It says, loud and clear:
<soren> +--without-lecture --with-tty-tickets \
<soren> Twice.
<soren> So it most certainly does mention this outside the changelog diff.
<Rhonda> Ah, only grepped for tty_tickets, my bad.
<Rhonda> my bad then
<soren> But really, if Debian applied the same change, it wouldn't show up in this diff, exactly /because/ we already had this change.
<Rhonda> soren: a.) Debian didn't apply any diff, the default got switched upstream in 1.7.4.  b.) this diff is about 1.7.2, not 1.7.4 (which isn't in Ubuntu yet)
<ScottK> Rhonda: For the backport, since it's a no change backport, you don't have to upload anything.  There is an archive script that does it.
<Rhonda> ScottK: Right, but people might want to test it before they ACK, not?
<Rhonda> Just wanted to offer my done builds somehow. :)
<ScottK> Rhonda: From and Ubuntu backports perspective if a tester says it builds, installs, runs (which I read your report as saying), it's sufficient.
<ScottK> I know that sounds like a very weak standard, but it seems to work.
<Rhonda> Well, it's not like debian backports has any more testing, trust has to be there anyway for the uploaders.
<Rhonda> And if it's a backport without source changes chances are good that this can be trusted indeed.
<debfx> ScottK: is there anything more I need to do in bug #647361?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 647361 in lucid-backports "Please backport virtualbox-ose and virtualbox-guest-additions 3.2.8" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/647361
<ScottK> looking
<ScottK> debfx: Upload it.
<ScottK> debfx: Upload target is lucid-backports.
<ScottK> (as you have it)
<debfx> ScottK: ok, but bug #600321 is just waiting for an archive admin to process it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600321 in lucid-backports "Please backport gcc-3.3" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600321
<ScottK> debfx: Yes.
<Rhonda> The error in Bug #659108 looks pretty strange and like a local issue on the system of the user?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 659108 in wesnoth-1.8 (Ubuntu) "package wesnoth-1.8-dm 1:1.8-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: el subprocÃ©s dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile retornÃ  el codi d'eixida d'error 2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659108
<Hobbsee> i'd say so - download issue
<micahg> \sh: PM?
<\sh> sure
<maxb> Is there a reference implementation for DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS nocheck somewhere?
<maxb> I'm sure I can make it work myself, just wondering if there's a canonical way to write it
<smallfoot-> hey put PyOgre in repo
<_stink_> hey folks.  i just did apt-get update in lucid 64bit and i'm seeing some unexpected stuff in the aptitude package listings.  245 new packages, all of them with blank descriptions... doing 'U' to mark all updates has aptitude wanting to remove g++ and tons of other stuff... and update many packages from one version number to an identical version number.
<_stink_> any advice?  could the repo be messed up?
<_stink_> wait, i'm using a mirror on this machine.
<_stink_> i mean, not using the standard ubuntu repos.  don't know if that matters.
<Bachstelze> probably
<jdong> _stink_: having weird 3rd party repos can certainly do that
<Bachstelze> any real reason to not use the standard repos ?
<jdong> try to simulate it and pastebin the simulation output?
<Bachstelze> hi jdong
<jdong> hey Bachstelze
<_stink_> Bachstelze: well, i am close to the Oakland Univ. (Michigan) mirror.
<jdong> oh if it's an actual mirror of an Ubuntu repo, that should not be an issue
<Bachstelze> oh, right
<Bachstelze> I thought maybe some unofficial ISP or company mirror
<jdong> your sources.list / sources.list.d, and an aptitude -s dist-upgrade
<Bachstelze> that could be messed up
<jdong> those would be helpful for troubleshooting
<_stink_> jdong: well, it happened right after i added the virtualbox non-free repo.  after apt-get update, i get the weirdness.  but i've removed that file in sources.list.d, and re-updated, and i expected it to fix itself.  but it didn't.
<jdong> *cringe* okay
<jdong> now I think we're getting closer to the problem
<_stink_> ruh roh.
<jdong> can you run aptitude -s dist-upgrade and pastebin the results?
<jdong> that'll at least tell us why aptitude so desperately wants to be removing g++ et al
<_stink_> jdong: http://paste.ubuntu.com/511823/
<jdong> hmm interesting
<jdong> _stink_: what does safe-upgrade want to do?
<_stink_> jdong: aptitude -s safe-upgrade show exactly the same thing as -s dist-upgrade.
<jdong> _stink_: okay time for the big guns then. aptitude -o 'Aptitude::CmdLine::Resolver-Debug=true' dist-upgrade
<ari-tczew> who deals with hall-of-fame?
<jdong> the only slightly suspicious thing I see is the edgers PPA
<_stink_> jdong: no extra output at all.  i'm at the "Do you want to continue?" prompt.
<jdong> doubt it'd be acting up to the point of suggesting the removal of so many packages
<_stink_> looks the same as the other outputs.
<jdong> hmm, groan
<_stink_> and that PPA is commented out. :/
<jdong> I'm not much of an aptitude guy, what is {u}?
<jdong> {a} is autoremove...
<smallfoot-> hey put PyOgre in repo
<smallfoot-> hey put PyOgre in repo
<smallfoot-> hey put PyOgre in repo
<smallfoot-> hey put PyOgre in repo
<_stink_> not sure myself - the aptitude GUI shows these as no longer used, so marked for removal.
<jdong> _stink_: oh, they're marked for autoremove... so that's what {u} is...
<jdong> heh it's totally ungoogleable
<_stink_> hehe
<jdong> _stink_: eh then it doesn't look so bad; explicitly aptitude install things that you don't want it to autoremove?
<jdong> _stink_: probably easier to mark that using Synaptic if it's a GUI enabled system
<_stink_> lemme give that a shot.
<_stink_> thanks.
<Pici> !newpackage > smallfoot-
<ubottu> smallfoot-, please see my private message
<jdong> sure thing
<smallfoot-> yeah, someone already put a request on launchpad
<smallfoot-> nobody does shit
<_stink_> jdong: it was the mirror, fwiw.  switched back to us.archive.ubuntu.com and all is well.  thanks for your help.
<micahg> !ohmy | smallfoot-
<ubottu> smallfoot-: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<ajmitch> morning
<ari-tczew> hi ajmitch
<ivoks> wow... i'm not motu anymore :)
<ajmitch> ivoks: you let it expire?
<ivoks> yeah :/
<jcastro> I knew I never liked ivoks!
<jcastro> j/k
<ajmitch> you can get that fixed, you know :)
<ivoks> i have to reapply again :)
<ajmitch> I'm sure the DMB wouldn't be too mean about it
<ivoks> heh
<ajmitch> it's not like you've been completely away from ubuntu for the last couple of years :)
<ivoks> :p
 * ajmitch no longer has direct ubuntu membership, for that matter :)
<Rhonda> Does one receive a ping before it expires?
<ajmitch> a week before
<ajmitch> & every day after that until it expires
<Rhonda> ivoks doesn't read mails?
<ajmitch> a week isn't long if you're on holiday :)
<Rhonda> What's holiday?
<ivoks> and something like that happened
<geser> ivoks: add yourself to agenda for the next DMB meeting (Oct 25th, 12UTC) and be there
<ivoks> ts...
<ivoks> i'll be on the plane whole day that day
<ivoks> nex time, i guess
<ivoks> geser: but thanks
<shadeslayer> any ideas where opensuse keeps its packaging?
<shadeslayer> like we have bzr
<shadeslayer> nvm
<maxb> Does anyone know off hand what the best way to set something like PYTHONPATH=build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6 is, to run tests during a build on what you just built?
<RAOF> Set that in the environment before running your tests?
<ScottK> maxb: I assume you want to add that to PYTHONPATH, not be all of PYTHONPATH?
<ScottK> import sys
<ScottK> sys.path.append('build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6')
<maxb> Well, there shouldn't be any PYTHONPATH before that, since it's inside a build on a buildd
<maxb> And the tricky bit is calculating the platform specifier right
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-13
<maxb> "temp.%s-%s" % (distutils.util.get_platform(), sys.version[0:3])
<maxb> it would appear
<jremerson> Hello All.
<jremerson> I am interested in helping develop packages, I have read through the blog, and I understand that their is a sponsorship process, however I was wondering if someone could point me in the best place to start practicing.
<RAOF> jremerson: One good way to start practicing is to pick up bugs on launchpad with patches and produce a package with that patch applied.
<RAOF> That'll expose you to a wide range of packages, and be useful to boot!
<jremerson> RAOF, Is there a guide on how to do that?
<RAOF> Hm.  Not off the top of my head, but there may well be.
<jremerson> is there an easy link to find bugs with patches?
<micahg> jremerson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<jremerson> Thank you :)
<micahg> jremerson: the Ubuntu Reviewers team in #ubuntu-reviews review bugs w/patches
<jremerson> micahg, I joined thank you, It also looks like the Mentor program might work well for me.
<micahg> jremerson: cool
<ScottK> Do we have an equivalent of "bts show nnnnnn"?
<james_w> I don't think so
<micahg> firefox-launchpad-plugin?
<micahg> ScottK: xdg-open pad.lv/######
<RAOF> Do's launchpad plugin?
<dholbach> Good morning! :)
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hey geser! :)
<dholbach> Wie geht's?
<geser> too much to do for too less time, but otherwise good :)
<persia> Anglais seulement, si vous plait!
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> geser, es ist immer dasselbe... :)
<micahg> is someone available to sponsor an SRU, bug 655311
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655311 in silc-client (Ubuntu) "Loading silc plugin crashes with error "undefined symbol: server_setup_find_port"" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655311
<debfx> micahg: have you tested if the patch works?
<jcastro> hyperair: do we need the banshee appindicator package now that we have mpris2 support?
<hyperair> jcastro: not really, no.
<hyperair> jcastro: soundmenu replaces it nicely too.
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> dang I wasn't paying attetion, I should have mentioned this ages ago
<hyperair> heh
<micahg> debfx: no, but the fix was released to Debian already for 3 months
<hyperair> jcastro: how do i go about enablng indicator-datetime by the way?
<ari-tczew> debfx: probably other people subscribed to bug could test patched package
<jcastro> hyperair: it should just work? mine does, you should just have it installed?
<jcastro> hyperair: I use indicator-applet-complete, which melts them all together into one nice one
<hyperair> jcastro: aha. that's the answer
<hyperair> indicator-datetime should honestly just depend on -complete
<hyperair> it doesn't show up otherwise.
<jcastro> it should, ping kenvandine to fix it pls.
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> jcastro: by the way, have you noticed your notify-osd bubbles being cropped?
<jcastro> maybe for this cycle datetime will get finished so we can just ship -complete by default
<jcastro> no, I see some people mentioning it though
<hyperair> jcastro: hmm so it's acommon issue.
<hyperair> weird.
<jcastro> I don't know if it's common or not
<hyperair> i mean it's not just me and my weird setup
<jcastro> I know you're not the first but I am not sure if it's widespread or what
<hyperair> jcastro: who have you heard it from?
<jcastro> I don't recall
<hyperair> oh well =\
<jcastro> I'll pay attention for you from now on, heh
<shadeslayer> is archive open for buisness? :)
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: not yet. probably Friday.
<shadeslayer> ok
<debfx> any REVU admins around to add me as a reviewer?
<ari-tczew> RainCT: ^^ (pinging as see that you're not away)
<RainCT> debfx: Done. Welcome in the team :)
<debfx> RainCT: thanks :)
<debfx> dholbach: could you please add me to ubuntu-sponsors
<dholbach> debfx, done
<debfx> dholbach: thanks
<debfx> micahg: I've uploaded silc-client
<micahg> debfx: thanks
<Laney> wgrant: The sid information on MDT is still out of date
<Laney> oh, it's probably the multiple source entries problem isn't it?
<ari-tczew> lucidfox: ping
<ari-tczew> can I use change only in LDFLAGS, if CFLAGS has been removed from debian/rules?
<ari-tczew> previous change was both in CFLAGS and LDFLAGS, but CFLAGS is no longer exist
<lucidfox> ari-tczew> pong
<ari-tczew> lucidfox: I'm merging epiphany-browser and I have a problem with your change. could you take a look on package in Debian, how we can adapt change in debian/rules? I asked about it above ^^
<ari-tczew> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-browser/2.30.2-1ubuntu4
<lucidfox> sorry, not now
<Laney> patch the autofoo
<Laney> or readd a CFLAGS override
<lfaraone> I'm using mk-sbuild to create a sbuild chroot of sid. Is it normal for it to be bringing in packages like exim4, openssh-client, xulrunner (!!!), and hicolor-icon-theme? The log is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/512633/
<lfaraone> kees: ^^
<kees> lfaraone: ew, no
<ajmitch> I think that's because it's installing recommended packages?
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=599699
<ubottu> Debian bug 599699 in ubuntu-dev-tools "ubuntu-dev-tools: mk-sbuild wrongly installs recommends in debian chroots" [Normal,Open]
<kees> I wonder how, given that it explicitly uses --no-install-recommends
<kees> OH!
<kees> no, only in the Ubuntu case.
<kees> I will fix it.
<ajmitch> ok :)
<lfaraone> kees: ah, glad I'm not crazy :)
<kees> lfaraone: yeah, sorry about that. I've replied to the bug and committed the fix.
<lfaraone> kees: awesome, thanks.
<lfaraone> kees: worth a SRU? or is there already a bundle of bugs being SRU'd in ubuntu-dev-tools?
<kees> lfaraone: it's been like that for a while, but yeah, if you want, go for it.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-14
<dholbach> Good morning!
<bilalakhtar> Good morning dholbach !
<dholbach> hey bilalakhtar
<alkisg> If my package "Recommends: A", and a user installs it, and later on I change it to "Recommends: A, B", and the user dist-upgrades, will B be automatically installed?
<alkisg> Or do I have to use "Depends:" for that to happen?
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: you got what you wanted?
<persia> Depends on the UI.  Generally the user won't get B.
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, i am still in that problem
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: describe, please
<genupulas> chitti@ubuntu:~/hello-packaging/hello-2.6/debian$ debuild
<genupulas> This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<genupulas> an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;
<genupulas> (expected one of hello_2.6.orig.tar.gz, hello_2.6.orig.tar.bz2,
<genupulas> hello_2.6.orig.tar.lzma or hello-2.6.orig)
<genupulas> continue anyway? (y/n) y
<genupulas>  dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -D -us -uc
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: set CFLAGS to default value: -g -O2
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: set CPPFLAGS to default value:
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: set LDFLAGS to default value: -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: set FFLAGS to default value: -g -O2
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: set CXXFLAGS to default value: -g -O2
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: source package hello
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: source version 2.6-1
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Administrator <chitti@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain>
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture i386
<genupulas> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: autotools-dev
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: warning: Build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting.
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage: warning: (Use -d flag to override.)
<genupulas> debuild: fatal error at line 1340:
<bilalakhtar> !paste | genupulas
<genupulas> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -D -us -uc failed
<ubottu> genupulas: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  i am getting like this
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: Install autotools-dev
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: and also set your DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME variables and then re-run dch -e
<genupulas> ok
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  i got this in pastebin.com
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, We are currently moving to a better server, to allow pastebin to grow more, posting will be allowed again in a minutes
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: have you done prepared any merges? :>
<genupulas> i must wait
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: go to paste.ubuntu.com
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: yes
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: syncing a package right now
<bilalakhtar> ah, synced
<bilalakhtar> thanks to syncpackage :D
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: just I finished work on epiphany-browser.
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: cool
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: hmm, but your package should stay in natty queue
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: yes, it is staying there
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: what's called?
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: monotone
<bilalakhtar> wait
<bilalakhtar> it has not been picked up yet
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: that;s right
<bilalakhtar> ah, ari-tczew it is there now :)
 * persia idly notes that traditionally at this point in the cycle merge-work consists of trying to ensure that packages don't need to be merged, rather than performing the merges.
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  done
<bilalakhtar> persia: getting big merges tackled early in the cycle is a good task
<bilalakhtar> 90% of the merges on M-o-M are new upstream releases
<bilalakhtar> which we ignored when maverick reached FF
<persia> bilalakhtar, Now, ask yourself, does Ubuntu need to vary?  Why?  What patch do we carry?  Why isn't it in Debian or upsteam?
<alkisg> Thank you persia :)
<bilalakhtar> persia: that's what! I am sending the patches as well. and just now I syncpackaged
<ari-tczew> persia: we just getting changes from Debian. what's wrong?
<persia> ari-tczew, There's nothing explicitly wrong, except that I fear for your goals.
<persia> And there's rarely any point to an upload now if we have confidence that any variance will be fixed in Debian.
<persia> So, for stuff where we *must* vary (like epiphany-browser, where there are branding changes), it makes sense to merge.
<persia> for stuff where it's less clear why we vary, it would be better to try not to vary.
<persia> Anyway, if you want cool stuff for natty, it's probably better to help Debian release squeeze rather than doing merges.
<persia> There's a *very* high chance that everything that has a merge will have another new upstream version in Debian before natty releases.
<ari-tczew> persia: I hope that you won't grab my upload access if I won't help Debian too much?
<persia> Mind you, if you just want to do merges, that's OK too: I just want to indicate that it's probably worth putting in the effort to not have to merge, and to get the newer stuff for natty.
<ari-tczew> my contribution to Debian is sending patches to bug tracker.
<bilalakhtar> same case with me
<bilalakhtar> that's the best way of forwarding
<nigelb> why not check if its a QA package and upload
<persia> ari-tczew, It's not like that.  It's that we're not going to get anything new for natty if squeeze doesn't release.
<bilalakhtar> if you take over the bug and send an RFS for an NMU
<ari-tczew> yea, so I don't understand what we are doing wrong.
<nigelb> or ask the maintainer if he's okay with an NMU?
<persia> So if we want new stuff, we want to get squeeze released.
<bilalakhtar> NMU RFSs slow down in the sponsorship queue
<bilalakhtar> on debian-mentors @lists.d.o
<bilalakhtar> I had an NMU over there
<persia> bilalakhtar, ari-tczew: If you don't want to work with Debian so much, I'll suggest that you'd find it more useful to tackle UEHS until squeeze does release and we get the dump of new stuff.
<persia> There's ~1000 packages that need updates there.
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html is 99 of them with an immediate update needed (please fix lintian, packaging, etc. stuff too)
<ari-tczew> persia: I don't like Debian contributing system. Asking for NMU, then waiting for maintainer response, then looking for free DD,..
<ari-tczew> sorry, I don't have time
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.html is 500 that need investigation.
<persia> ari-tczew, That's fine.  I'll encourage you to work on UEHS then.  It's not a general thing, but for this cycle Debian is frozen, and likely to unfreeze before we release, so concentration on merges early is likely to all be work that needs to be redone later.
<ari-tczew> persia: if have forwarded a lot of patches from Ubuntu and not all were applied by maintainer. My work is done, I'm going to continue merging other packages.
<persia> But we have hundreds of packages that need a merge with new upstream that aren't in Debian, and all of those are not likely to need to be done again during natty, so the work is more likely to be part of the release.
<persia> ari-tczew, Would you please at least consider UEHS?  Not enough people work on it, and it doesn't require working with Debian, but it is basically all merges.
<ari-tczew> persia: I prefer to grab changes from Debian instead packaging from scratch to Ubuntu. sorry. I'm not doing anything wrong and I'll continue my objectives.
<persia> ari-tczew, UEHS isn't packaging from scratch: it's just new upstream versions.
<ari-tczew> persia: you know that I mean
<persia> And I won't tell you not to do that, I just suspect it will have to be redone later anyway.
<ari-tczew> s/that/what
<ari-tczew> persia: if we reduce a lot of merges this cycle, then we can quickly response to new merges in future.
<persia> Sure.  I just don't think merge work done now makes any difference for merge count for natty for most packages.  I suspect large numbers of Debian folk are planning to upload something new once the freeze ends, and I expect that to happen before natty releases.
<persia> There are exceptions, but in general.
<persia> The main reason I suggest it's worth helping Debian release squeeze is to make that huge dump of uploads (likely thousands of packages) happen sooner, rather than later.
<ari-tczew> persia: as I said, I've forwarded changes to Debian and with policy it's OK and enough. From my side, we can close our discussion, because I won't change my point-of-view.
<persia> I just don't feel like you understand what I'm saying at all, but I'll stop trying if you prefer.
<ari-tczew> would be nice
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  are you free
<genupulas> ?
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: yes
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  i am at final step
<genupulas> may i paste the error here
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: paste.ubuntu.com
<genupulas> ok
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  wait i will do that
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  i did it ...check it out
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: give me the link to the paste!
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, http://paste.ubuntu.com/513015/
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: What are your DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME variables set to?
<genupulas> my name and my mail id
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, ^
<bilalakhtar> then, paste your debian/changelog to paste.ubuntu.com and give link
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  not getting .please explain me clearly
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: paste the content of the changelog file in debian folder to paste.ubuntu.com
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, ok
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,:http://paste.ubuntu.com/513028/
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: run the command: echo $DEBEMAIL and check if the e-mail ID comes there or not
<genupulas> coming nothing
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, ^
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: then run: export DEBEMAIL="email@something.com"
<bilalakhtar> and same for debfullname
<genupulas> I MADE IT AS U SADI
<genupulas> AS U SAID
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: run dch -e and then save and close
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  yes completed
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: done? does it build now?
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  so i think next is 'debuild
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: yes
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  failed
<persia> Try `debuild -S -us -uc` to avoid messing with all the GPG bits for now.
<bilalakhtar> persia: It will surely work, but I need to get this person sign that as well
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, http://paste.ubuntu.com/513032/
<persia> bilalakhtar, Why?
<genupulas> persia,  is it for me
<persia> genupulas, Sure, but I don't see much of a reason to sign packages except if one is distributing them.
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: run debuild -us -uc
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, when i am doing debuild i am getting like this
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: run debuild -us -uc to get a deb
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, chitti@ubuntu:~/hello-packaging/hello-2.6/debian$ debuild -us -uc
<genupulas> This package has a Debian revision number but there does not seem to be
<genupulas> an appropriate original tar file or .orig directory in the parent directory;
<genupulas> (expected one of hello_2.6.orig.tar.gz, hello_2.6.orig.tar.bz2,
<genupulas> hello_2.6.orig.tar.lzma or hello-2.6.orig)
<genupulas> continue anyway? (y/n)
<genupulas> bilalakhtar, ^
<TeTeT> Hi, I stumbled over a package that fails to remove, gforge-plugin-mediawiki. I've added a debdiff to bug 435829, is there anything else I need to do to get this fixed eventually?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435829 in gforge (Ubuntu) "Error in prerm script" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435829
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  what i have to do
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: You didn't follow my steps properly
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: You should have renamed the file to hello_2.6.orig.tar.gz
<persia> TeTeT, You'll want to subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to get someone to look at it for upload.
<persia> TeTeT, But you want to rewrite your debdiff: we don't use dpatch to edit stuff under debian/ : just edit it normally.  We only use patch systems for patches to the upstream code, to ease communication with upstream about each patch.
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  i got it man
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: okay, good
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  i am very happy about this
<genupulas> bilalakhtar,  thank you very much
<bilalakhtar> genupulas: you are welcome
<TeTeT> persia: ok, will start again then
<persia> TeTeT, don't start again :)  Just delete your dpatch (and the series entry), and apply your diff manually.  Re-run debuild -S, and create a new debdiff.  The postrm patch is almost certainly correct.
<TeTeT> persia: too late, already done, new debdiff is up, will subscribe ubuntu-sponsors now
<ari-tczew> TeTeT: why lucid?
<ari-tczew> TeTeT: is it fixed in maverick?
<persia> TeTeT, Looks better.  next: you're attempting to upload to lucid.  lucid is frozen.  You'll want to prepare *three* debdiffs: one for natty, one for maverick-proposed, and one for lucid-proposed.
<TeTeT> ari-tczew: I doubt that it is fixed in maverick
<persia> TeTeT, And you probably want to investigate why/how 4.8 AND 5.0 are in maverick and natty (so maybe 5 debdiffs, maybe 4 and a removal request for natty)
<ari-tczew> TeTeT: in debian/changelog: s/Closes/LP
<ari-tczew> Closes: is for closing Debian bugs and it's not working in Ubuntu. we use LP: #
<persia> TeTeT, I realise this sounds like a lot: we'll keep telling you what to do until you either do it, or you say "Hey, that's too much".  If it's too much, we'll probably help run it through hoops, but we start from the assumption that you'd like to learn the processes as well as fix the bugs.
<TeTeT> ari-tczew: ok, changing that
<TeTeT> persia: not a problem. I think that it's an easy fix to make removal of the package work and I'm willing to do the debdiff for maverick as well, if it's broken there
<TeTeT> hmm, on maverick installing gforge-plugin-mediawiki fails with this error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/513058/
<ari-tczew> I suggest to remove depend on stricte 4.8 version
<ari-tczew> in debian/control
<ari-tczew> or require higher version, relatively to maverick's version
<persia> ari-tczew, (>= 4.8) isn't strict.
<persia> TeTeT, You've reached the fun part: for packages that aren't looked after, sometimes one finds more bugs than one expects :)
<TeTeT> persia: he he, yeah. Given that I merely tried to help a guy that asked a question on the apt package how to remove the gforge-plugin-mediawiki, it turns out to be quite a ride
<persia> If nothing else, one hopes you find it an educational and satisfying ride.  The results of your work are likely to reach many people indeed.
<TeTeT> what I don't understand is why the dependency check fails. gforge-web-apache2 is version 5.0.1+svn10088-1 according to apt-cache show
<persia> Might not be able to install that in combination with other stuff.
<TeTeT> yeah, looks like it
<TeTeT> wow, gforge-db-postgresql creates a random password as it surpresses the debconf question
<TeTeT> I fear fixing this package in Maverick is beyond my skills and amount of time I can commit to it, sorry
<persia> TeTeT, Unfortunately, policy dictates that we can't fix in Lucid until we've fixed in maverick and natty.
<Laney> M too?
<persia> Please put as much information as you do have time to discover into the bug.  Regarding skills, we're more than happy to help.
<persia> Laney, Yep.
 * sebner waves at Laney :)
 * Laney roars at sebner
 * nigelb rechristens as Simbha from Lion King
 * nigelb rechristens Laney as Simbha from Lion King
<TeTeT> will do, just fixed the install of gforge-db-postgresql and opened a bug for it
<persia> Excellent!
<TeTeT> any ideas how to resolve this:  python2.6-minimal (2.6.6-5ubuntu1) breaks gforge-web-apache2 (<< 5.0.1+svn10155) and is installed.
<persia> TeTeT, drop 4.8 from natty (this requires a bug), and try to install 5.0.1+svn10088-1 which doesn't break.
<persia> Oh, Urgh, it does.
 * persia looks
<persia> TeTeT, For natty, you probably want 5.0.2-2 from Debian
<TeTeT> persia: so a sync request is needed?
<persia> For maverick, I'm not sure how to sort that, unless one creates a fake package version that meets the requirement and includes the patch for 10155 which works with python2.6-minimal.
<persia> No, it will autosync as long as we don't mess with it in natty.
<TeTeT> ok
<persia> But other bugs may still exist in 5.0.2-2: if they do, then you'd merge your changes into that version for natty.
<TeTeT> sigh, knew that I will run out of time for this - need to prepare my UEC class now
<juancito> hola alguno habla espaÃ±ol
<ari-tczew> juancito: we prefer english
<juancito> oks algun canal de motu en espaÃ±ol
<juancito> hi speak spanish?
<juancito> hi speak spanish?
<ari-tczew> juancito: who?
<ari-tczew> juancito: let's use http://translate.google.com
<juancito> Hello my name is victor and I would learn how to package
<juancito> to contribute to Ubuntu, where I can learn?
<ari-tczew> juancito: hello victor. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<persia> juancito, Are the documents making sense for you?  Do you want a few tasks just to get started?
<shadeslayer> anyone around to do a universe SRU?
<shadeslayer> bug 660537
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 660537 in Ubuntu "SRU: Please release plasma-widget-yawp 0.3.5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660537
<persia> shadeslayer, 1) you want to subscribe "ubuntu-sponsors" to make the request.  2) There's none of the standard justifications for SRU there: why would it be accepted?  Most importantly, there's no TEST CASE for the verification team to use.
<persia> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<persia> shadeslayer, And to be clear, I realise "completely broken" means we need to do something, and the new upstream is likely sanest, but still needs the process docs, etc.
<shadeslayer> persia: ive written that the data engine now compiles to KDE 4.5.1 standards
<shadeslayer> *complies
 * persia expects both "complies" and "compiles" are accurate in this case
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: why you don't want ask Kubuntu's motu developers like debfx?
<shadeslayer> ari-tczew: ah right debfx is now MOTU :D
<persia> ari-tczew, Are you sure he didn't?  This is the place for *all* MOTU.
 * persia generally discourages folks asking specific other folks anyway, so that the specific folks can sleep, etc.
<RainCT> Who needs sleep anyway? ;)
<persia> RainCT, Folks with insufficient etc., I'd guess.
<persia> shadeslayer, Thanks for the test case: would you mind adding success and failure criteria (might be "it appears" vs. "it doesn't appear" or similarly trivial)
<persia> (yes, I know it was uploaded, but it will still speed the next steps (SRU team approval, verification team verification) if you do this)
<shadeslayer> persia: ok ..
<shadeslayer> yes :)
<persia> I've also unsubscribed the sponsors for now, as it's been pushed to maverick-proposed and natty is closed.  If you want to do a natty debdiff for pending upload, resubscribe: otherwise just get it sync'd from maverick-proposed after the archive opens.
<shadeslayer> persia: success criteria is that weather data about that particular location is loaded
<shadeslayer> ive added a step 4 describing when it faisl
<shadeslayer> *fails
<persia> Ah, OK.  It wasn't clear to me that step 3 was success.  Thanks.  Looks like everything is perfect, and just needs SRU team to push it in and can get verified.  Don't forget to get the solution into natty once the archive is open.
<shadeslayer> of course
<shadeslayer> is it possible to list all available packages from one repo?
<persia> shadeslayer, Could you phrase that differently?  I know the answer is yes, but suspect that if I just point you at grep-dctrl you'll get frustrated.
<shadeslayer> persia: ok so all packages are put into repos right? we have main, universe, multiverse, then we have PPA's and we also have extra repos from google and all. Is it possible to list all packages from a particular repo, for eg. all packages of Universe, or all packages from the google repo
<cody-somerville> shadeslayer, Yes.
<shadeslayer> cody-somerville: and the magic command is ..... ? :D
<cody-somerville> shadeslayer, persia might have some fancy command to do it but if I had to do it real quick without looking such a command up, I'd download the Packages file from the repository and do: awk '/Package:/ { print $2 }' Packages
<persia> shadeslayer, cody-somerville's command is great if you're looking for everything from a random repository.  If you're looking locally, you have all the Packages files in /var/lib/apt/lists : I think you'd have to write something more complex if you want to find out all the packages that would be selected from a certain repository (ignoring ones superceded by newer version somewhere else).  Quick'n'dirty method might be to use for and a
<persia> pt-cache.  Richer method might be to use quinn-diff or mdt.
<persia> If you're looking for richer filtering, grep-dctrl is designed for that and works against Packages files.
<james_w> does someone have a stock kubuntu lucid lying around and can tell me if there is a dbus session bus running when you log in to such a system?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-15
<TheMuso> Natty is open.
<micahg> \o/
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to:  Maverick is released.  Lots of SRUs to be done. | Natty is open  | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | Congratulations to new MOTU: debfx.
<highvoltage> TheMuso: whohoo!
<coolbhavi> hello...isnt PPA for natty activated yet?
<persia> Quite possibly not, but ask #launchpad: they host PPAs (and we don't even all use them).
<persia> You can set up a pbuilder or sbuild today though.
<coolbhavi> sure thanks persia
<nigelb> hyperair: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
<hyperair> thanks =)
<hyperair> how did you know?
<nigelb> The Force :p
<nigelb> Facebook, you added me remember? ;)
<hyperair> ahahahahaha
<hyperair> right
<hyperair> now i remember
 * hyperair got flooded with facebook mails this morning
 * nigelb adds to the flood
 * hyperair gets flattened by facebook mails
<nigelb> hahaha
<micahg> lucidfox: ping
<lucidfox> micahg, pong
<micahg> lucidfox: hi, did you want to merge chmsee?  I noticed you were the last uploader
<lucidfox> Eh... to be honest, I'm done with it. If you want to upload, feel free to proceed
<micahg> lucidfox: k, thanks
<persia> And this is why we don't have maintainers in Ubuntu : makes it easier to just fix stuff with certain confidence that someone else on the team will pick it up later if you're done with it.
<micahg> persia: we're still supposed to ask, right?
<persia> Depends.
<bilalakhtar> micahg: I have uploaded chmsee!
<bilalakhtar> micahg: Please don't!
<persia> If you've a burning need to do something, because it's blocking your work, same rules apply for merges and non-merge uploads.
<micahg> bilalakhtar: ?
<bilalakhtar> micahg: no, wait, I haven't uploaded it yet
<bilalakhtar> micahg: Its lying in my directory
<persia> Once we hit DIF, anything not done is essentially up for grabs.
<micahg> bilalakhtar: ah, you grabbed it...that's one of the few things I can upload at the moment :(
<persia> We tend to follow TIL rules between archive-open and DIF just because most folk who are TIL are willing to do the merges.
<bilalakhtar> micahg: Do you want to do it? I have done the merge, but will do a test-build, run and upload
<micahg> bilalakhtar: nah, go ahead
<persia> bilalakhtar, As much as I harp on Ubuntu-does-not-have-maintainers-!!!! It's considered polite to ask the last uploader about it between archive-open and DIF: lots of times people have other out-of-archive stuff they are doing, and quick merges interfere with their work.
<persia> Once we reach DIF, all bets are off.
<bilalakhtar> ohk
 * micahg would also think MOTU should focus on unseeded unless it's a pet package
<persia> Indeed, but the LP stuff to block MOTU uploading to packagesets isn't done yet, sadly.
<micahg> persia: I don't think they should be blocked necessarily, just focus on the unseeded
<persia> And the UI for MOTU to *know* what isn't in a packageset is still fuzzy.
<micahg> yeah, that's the bigger issue :)(
<persia> micahg, Intent is to block it: packages that have interested folks aren't MOTU responsibility.  MOTU who happen to be interested should join the relevant devteam.
<micahg> persia: ah, ok, so me going for MOTU will then be in addition to mozilla stuff :)
<persia> Ideally, MOTU grants no upload rights, but that takes a lot more active developers :)
<persia> micahg, Right.  MOTU is an additional grant, and it's supposed to be about dedication to archive quality.
<persia> And for work concentrated in areas that don't have any group caring for them.
<bilalakhtar> I am interested in desktop packages, some of which are in universe. However, before touching a desktop package, I ask in #ubuntu-desktop
<persia> When you say "desktop package", how are you defining that?
<micahg> is the current preference to file merge bugs or not to file merge bugs?
<persia> micahg, I'm still a fan of filing merge bugs, just as a means to declare who is merging it.
<Rhonda> micahg: It's to check wether the difference still makes sense and rather to help Debian release, otherwise natty won't get any new packages.
<persia> That said, LP bugs are now so cluttered, I don't think most folk even look at bugs for a package when merging (sadly), making this less useful.
<persia> (plus what Rhonda said)
<micahg> Rhonda: how do merge bugs help to see if the diff makes sense or help Debian?
<persia> micahg, The point being that it's probably better to focus on squeeze release than worry about merges.
<micahg> persia: ah, right, ok
<persia> The chances that any merge done now will not have to be redone when squeeze comes out and everyone uploads is tiny.
<persia> So the faster we get squeeze released, the sooner it makes sense to do any merges.
<Rhonda> micahg: The other way round. If the diff doesn't make sense there is no need for a merge bug, rather sync request. :)
<micahg> hmm, makes sense, but I'm not sure how much I can do to help squeeze release, alas, I'll give it another whirl
<persia> A better focus is probably UEHS stuff, for folks who don't want to help Debian.
<micahg> UEHS?
<micahg> persia: should I unmark the merges I marked for myself or just claim them and do them when the new version come out?
<persia> micahg, Your choice :)
<persia> !uehs
<persia> ($#"W~)("#
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/
<Rhonda> I'd like to throw in this URL which gives a list of bugs that are in need of getting addressed: http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi?release=squeeze&patch=ign&pending=ign&security=ign&notmain=ign&notsqueeze=ign&merged=ign&done=ign&fnewerval=7&rc=1
<persia> ubottu, uehs is <reply> the Ubuntu External Health System is hosted at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs and lists many upstream projects with which Ubuntu is not currently in sync.
<micahg> persia: I didn't know about that one, thanks
<micahg> persia: I want to help squeeze release, I guess I need to dig deeper in the RC list to see if something is fixed upstream or something I can do
<dholbach> good morning! :)
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> yay for friday evening
 * ajmitch can sleep now
<nigelb> dang, timezones are unfair
<nigelb> another 10 hours at least before I can sleep
<ajmitch> well it's only 8pm here, but I just walked home after a long day :)
<nigelb> aha
 * micahg is going to sleep now, timezeones are interesting
<persia> nigelb, So, um, consider what time ajmitch gets up.
<nigelb> persia: Considering what time I got up today, makes not much of difference :/
 * micahg got up 19 hrs ago, definitely time to go to sleep
 * persia is amused when 7:30 of timezone difference makes little effective difference in diurnal cycles
 * ajmitch isn't really going to sleep yet :)
<bilalakhtar> persia: What's the time at your place?
<persia> bilalakhtar, UTC+9 today
<bilalakhtar> oh
<ari-tczew> when autosync is starting?
<persia> A few minutes ago.
<ari-tczew> can I see which packages are autosyncing right now? is it in  Latest uploads  ?
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+queue?queue_state=3 lets you see what just got processed.
<ari-tczew> thanks persia
<ari-tczew> persia: hmm, syncs are not coming :/
<persia> Some will, but not so many, because of the squeeze freeze.
<ari-tczew> persia: I see that 1700+ packages should be synced.
<ari-tczew> (autosynced)
<persia> Are you working on something that is blocked on one of them/
<persia> s:/:?:
<ari-tczew> persia: I would wait to moment, when all packages are synced. then I can test build packages on fresh build-depends
<persia> Most build-depends ought be done: that's the point of the toolchain freeze.
<ari-tczew> aha
<persia> It is believed that anything not already uploaded isn't supposed to affect how stuff builds significantl.
<persia> This may not be a correct assumption, but it's safe for you to also assume it.
<ari-tczew> persia: ok, now packages are going to be uploaded by autosync.
<persia> Yep.
<ari-tczew> builders will be clogged
<persia> Yep
<gusnan> pdebuilding my GTK program I get the following: http://paste.ubuntu.com/513757/ during build - does someone know anything about this? It doesn't help to depend on libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev oddly enough...
<geser> gusnan: try adding -I/usr/include/gdk-pixbuf-2.0 to the CFLAGS
<gusnan> ah, that seems to work... Thanks geser!
<jariq> When i run "dh_make -s" it generates rules file with just three lines (#!/usr/bin/make -f \ %: \ dh $@).. I am not sure if this can be used for my applicaiton :) How can i get the "old style behaviour" with normal rules file ?
<tumbleweed> jariq: there's an easy way to find out if the minimal dh rules will work :)
<tumbleweed> jariq: also (#ubuntu-packaging)
<jariq> tumbleweed: minimal dh rules does not work for me.. how can I generate longer version ?
<tumbleweed> jariq: don't know of an easier way than writing them out by hand. dh_make doesn't ship them any more.
<tumbleweed> jariq: why don't they work?
<jariq> tumbleweed: i am installing into non standard location
<jariq> tumbleweed: your answer "dh_make doesn't ship them any more" is enough for me.. thank you very much
<tumbleweed> jariq: you know about dh overrides, right?
<tumbleweed> so much for that...
<ari-tczew> huh, builder is blocked till 2 days, at the moment
<persia> heh, lots of packages, and powerpc is unfortunately not very fast right now.
<persia> Be nice to put new powerpc hardware in the DC, but that kinda requires someone to make some and sell it at reasonable prices.
<AlanBell> how do I find out who should review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/dasher/bugfix-lp-579181/+merge/37528
<AlanBell> so I reported a bug, took a branch, made the fix, done a merge request . . . now what? How do I make it happen?
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ set the sponsor team as the reviewer
<vish> dasher is in Ubuntu right?
 * vish checks..
<AlanBell> yes, it is in ubuntu
<AlanBell> ok, done that I think
<AlanBell> !info dasher
<ubottu> dasher (source: dasher): A graphical predictive text input system. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.11-1 (maverick), package size 364 kB, installed size 984 kB
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ hmm, wait, i think you might have fixed the wrong branch..  thats a vcs import branch
<AlanBell> err ok, not sure what that means
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/trunk , thats automatically imported
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ if you want to fix only in Ubuntu, grab the Ubuntu branch
<AlanBell> found that from here https://launchpad.net/dasher
 * persia notes that bzr diff may produce a patch suitable for application into the Ubuntu branch
<AlanBell> sorry, I am going round in circles here, where is the ubuntu branch?
<persia> Usually at lp:ubuntu/${package}
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dasher
 * persia thinks, but doesn't use bzr for packaging, so may be mistaken
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ so its for lp:ubuntu/dasher , that the sponsors can upload
<vish> also, i think you'd need to file a bug too..
<persia> No, it shouldn't need a bug.
<AlanBell> hmm, ok, most of the links on that page take me back to the upstream dasher
<AlanBell> there is a bug
<persia> A merge proposal should show up in the sponsoring report.
<persia> If there's a bug, just link the branch to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
<AlanBell> bug 579181
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 579181 in dasher (Ubuntu) "Newline (Â¶) only selectable after punctuation or space" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/579181
<persia> You'll still need to base the branch on the Ubuntu tree, but that'S separate.
<vish> persiaÂ¦ i meant a bug for mentioning what we are changing and for the changelog..
<persia> vish, No point.  Best to use the bug that is the problem.
<persia> Adding new bugs just for sponsoring is a waste of bug IDs.
<vish> nah, i dint mean new bugs :)
<persia> And we only have a limited number of those.
<persia> OK. :)
<AlanBell> subscribe sponsors to the bug, or the branch?
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ branch
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ if you have made the changes for lp:ubuntu/dasher , they can merge/upload
<vish>  lp:dasher they cant..
<AlanBell> hmm, odd
<vish> think of lp:dasher as the upstream branch, its just a mirror now of the svn from gnome
<vish> sponsors can upload upload to Ubuntu branches
<vish> upload only* to
<persia> Well, sponsors can upload whatever they want to Ubuntu, whether it has any relation to an Ubuntu branch or not.
<persia> But sponsors can only process merge proposals against Ubuntu branches.
<persia> and upstream patches tend to get sent upstream rather than sponsored.
<AlanBell> ok, so I need to bzr branch lp:ubuntu/dasher, redo my changes, commit, push and do a new merge request?
<vish>  yup
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ would sending the patch upstream not be helpful?
<AlanBell> what have I just done then?
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ the branch will fix the bug in Ubuntu alone, [if sponsored]
<AlanBell> isn't the issue that I *did* send it upstream?
<vish> the upstream code you pulled is actually mirrored from  http://svn.gnome.org/svn/dasher/trunk/
<persia> AlanBell, You based the patch on upstream code (good), but didn't send it to actual upstream (maybe needed, maybe not).  You're now working to reapplyy the patch (bzr diff is good to extract it) to the Ubuntu branch with the intent to request someone to upload it to Ubuntu.
<vish> so i'm *guessing* they file their bugs in gnome bugzilla, not sure though
<AlanBell> ok, so where does that pull from?
<AlanBell> http://svn.gnome.org/ says GNOME has changed to using Git for version control. Current GNOME sources can be found on git.gnome.org. All content on this site is obsolete
<vish> from " https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/trunk   "This branch is an import of the Subversion  branch from http://svn.gnome.org/svn/dasher/trunk. "
<vish> last sync was 30mins ago
<vish> import rather
<AlanBell> indeed, so why is it pulling from a site that claims to be obsolete
<vish> right,  and the Ubuntu package is also a sync from debian.. 0.o
<vish> auto-sync
<AlanBell> http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/Develop.html
<AlanBell> so looks like the real upstream is indeed on gnome
<AlanBell> but should be git clone git://git.gnome.org/dasher
<vish> if the svn is obsolete then https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/dasher/trunk might be a waste ?  why does that keep trying there?  maybe we should close/stop that?
<vish> persiaÂ¦ ^
<AlanBell> they might be syncing git to svn and launchpad is pulling from that
<vish> heh! musical chairs! ;p
<AlanBell> but debian will get releases from gnome, ubuntu gets packages from debian, I can't see where that lp:dasher is actually used
<AlanBell> right now it is just causing multi-cycle delays in getting fixes done
<persia> vish, better to just ask in #launchpad to get it updated
<vish> yea..
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ phew! Â» https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=dasher
<vish> the bugs seem to go there, and sending the patch there would probably nice as well, but seeing that the package has not been updated since 04/2009  not sure where the log is, debian or bugzilla
<persia> log?
<persia> lag?
<persia> quite possibly related to the squeeze freeze.
<vish> err, yeah, lag
<AlanBell> ok, so I need to register and file a bug in gnome or something?
<ScottK> If it's upstream Gnome, it won't be the squeeze freeze that's the cause of delay I wouldn't think.
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ yup, file a bug in gnome and send the patch there,  also trying to find out why the package was not updated for a while might be the real clue ;), the latest version /might/ have the problem fixed..
<AlanBell> doubt it, given what the issue is
<AlanBell> when using IRC to control dasher it is very hard to type /window 3<return>
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ there is dasher 4_11 in git
<AlanBell> because digit followed directly by return isn't in the training data
<vish> http://git.gnome.org/browse/dasher/tag/?id=DASHER_4_11_0
<vish> hrm! but seems nothing new in it, just a welcome message :D
<AlanBell> http://git.gnome.org/browse/dasher/log/ wow, lots of stuff happening
<vish> nope, someone is working on it
<vish> heh , yeah, was just looking at the same link
<AlanBell> ok, so the current ubuntu situation is a bit sucky
<AlanBell> bugs get reported, they are not being passed upstream, it was *hard* to discover where the upstream actually was
<bilalakhtar> A package is facing the DSO link failure problem and I am trying to fix it. The package uses cmake. Any idea how do I get it to use the -lX11 flag when it calls gcc ?
<AlanBell> and I am fairly sure when I fixed that bug in the first place I used ground control to fix the bug number and it downloaded the vcs branch for me, totally inappropriately
<bilalakhtar> got it
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ yeah, just noticed that none of those bugs got triaged
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ adopt upstream? < enter jcastro Â»
<jcastro> I can help!
<jcastro> give me a few minutes to finish this call
<vish> j-castroÂ¦  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dasher seems to be fairly important for accessibility, but has got no attention
<bilalakhtar> | ?
<bilalakhtar> Why the pipe character, vish?
<vish> bilalakhtarÂ¦ just so that people ask about it! :)
<AlanBell> vish: Â¦ is not | or : but somewhere inbetween
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ yup, i came across it while we were looking for the Rs sign ;)
<AlanBell> ah, you mean â¹
<bilalakhtar> vish: Ubuntu supports the rupee symbol
<vish> AlanBellÂ¦ yup, the other day, so you are to be blamed! ;p
<AlanBell> #blamealan
<jcastro> vish: the bug tracker seems set correctly in launchpad to me?
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dasher says that bugs are tracked in gnome, and also ubuntu
<AlanBell> so do the dasher packages come from debian, or from gnome?
<jcastro> the code comes from gnome, the packages from debian most likely
<AlanBell> so where do I file a bug, and where do I fix it, and how should I have found this out for myself?
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: you file a bug in Ubuntu if it's something we want to track in ubuntu (i.e. important or visible). You fix it in gnome. If we can't wait for the fix from gnome, we fix it with a patch in Ubuntu (or better, Debian) but still pass the patch to gnome
<AlanBell> right, OK, so I did file a bug in Ubuntu, and then got in a mess trying to fix it in ubuntu against the pseudo upstream branch at lp:dasher
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix covers some of this
<AlanBell> now I have the git tree from Gnome and I am fixing it there
<vish> jcastroÂ¦ yea, but AlanBell seems fairly interested in the package, so i thought you could sweet talk him into adoption it ;)
<vish> adopting*
<jcastro> indeed
<jcastro> AlanBell: I would fix it in gnome, and then ping the DD and a MOTU about carrying it back down
<AlanBell> yay, I have a git patch
<persia> yay!
<jcastro> AlanBell: please make a mental note of how brutal it will be getting the fix back down, I am always interested in that kind of data
<AlanBell> gnome bug 632226
<ubottu> Gnome bug 632226 in core "Dasher is hard to use to operate IRC clients such as irssi" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=632226
<jcastro> \o/
<AlanBell> bug filed in gnome, ubuntu bug attached to gnome bug, patch attached to gnome bug
<Pendulum> AlanBell: I think I owe you a drink next time I see you :)
<vish> PendulumÂ¦ hey! AlanBell owes me that drink! i literally handheld him through it! ;p
<Pendulum> vish: or I owe you both drinks :P
<vish> \o/
<micahg> SpamapS: you might want to wait for me to merge 1.6.3 before you request the backport
<micahg> SpamapS: actually, since you TIL, were you planning on merging mongodb?
<SpamapS> micahg: oo that would be sweet actually. :)
<micahg> SpamapS: which one?
<SpamapS> micahg: 1.6 in backports
<micahg> SpamapS: k, do you want me to merge it, or do you want to?
<SpamapS> micahg: I don't mind merging it at all. I'm a little bit perplexed at what they're planning for 1.7 though.. mongodb is planning to embed pcre and boost in their distribution.
<SpamapS> micahg: and they're going to be statically linking by default.
<SpamapS> "rapidly changing xulrunner and boost versions cause too many problems for our users"
<SpamapS> They really don't understand that they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.
<micahg> SpamapS: k, well, they can switch to webkit :-/
<ScottK> Boost and stable ABI are oxymorons.
<SpamapS> micahg: does webkit have a more stable js library?
<micahg> SpamapS: er, I don't know for sure, but I think they do
<micahg> chrisccoulson: can you speak to the stability of the webkit JS API?
<chrisccoulson> micahg - i'm not sure about that
<SpamapS> micahg: Oh, and if I wasn't clear.. yes I will do the mongodb merge
<micahg> SpamapS: feel free to ping me when you're ready for sponsorship
<SpamapS> micahg: will do, thanks. :)
<ari-tczew> bdrung: hey, which command can I use for fakesync?
<SpamapS> micahg: should I bother to subscribe ubuntu-sporsor for the mongodb merge, or do you just want to take it? bug #661513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 661513 in mongodb (Ubuntu) "Please merge mongodb 1.6.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661513
<micahg> SpamapS: nah, that's ok, just subscribe me and I'll upload Sat night
<SpamapS> seems like the 'subscribe someone else' link on launchpad has gotten slower lately :(
<SpamapS> micahg: thanks!
<micahg> nm, I'm already subscribed :)
<micahg> oh, well, all good
<micahg> SpamapS: np
<micahg> SpamapS: only comment on your debdiff is you fix up the dep3 patch headers for the ubuntu_hacks workaround
 * micahg will be back in 25 hours
<SpamapS> micahg: oh, those are the result of the 3.0 source format.. I always forget to fix those. ;)
<ScottK> SpamapS: Here's a hint - Read your debdiff before you ask for sponsorship.  Then this kind of stuff leaps out at you.
<SpamapS> I did read it. I don't ever notice those, because they're just boilerplate stuff. The 3.0 format does make it kind of weird. The Debian maintainer didn't remove their boilerplate stuff either. ;)
<SpamapS> in fact.. I'm not really even sure how to edit the generated patches
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-16
<persia> SpamapS, `quilt header` might be useful if you're using 3.0 (quilt)
<SpamapS> persia: I think I'm just mixing two different dev styles and its messing with my workflow a bit. ;) I see now where if I'm not using bzr branches, its very simple.
<SpamapS> Been doing everything with UDD methods but I wasn't sure how to do merges that way.
<persia> SpamapS, For UDD, you'd submit a merge request.  Won't change the content of things.
<persia> You still need to use `quilt header` or equivalent to set your patch headers, and you still want to review the diff before you request a merge on LP.
<persia> Personally, I suspect using `debdiff` is the least annoying way to be able to see the summarised changes between two source packages, but you may be able to convince `bzr diff` to give you that, assuming both branches are in the same (correct) state.
<SpamapS> persia: the issue with UDD is that you have to run bzr-buildpackage -S --dont-purge to generate the patches, then copy them back in. Granted, we should use quilt directly, but I'm just suggesting that this, IMO, very cool feature of debsrc 3.0 is sort of broken right now for bzr-buildpackage usage (unless I missed how to make it do this)
<persia> You're supposed to use quilt, and then commit that with bzr, or work towards getting 3.0 (bzr) accepted, and work with packages in that source format.
<SpamapS> Also I didn't realize that there was any problem with just leaving the generated patch "as is" .. nobody cared the last time I uploaded with the same patch boilerplate in place.
<persia> Just changing code using normal bzr workflows is nearly guaranteed to fail.
<persia> It ought be done right.  If someone didn't look, that's their mistake.  Folks that intentionally make mistakes usually end up with reprimands, so it's likely not safe to expect the same person to ignore it in the future.
<ScottK> SpamapS: I think having the bzr history thanks to UDD is very useful, but I'm not convinced we know how to mix VCS and patch systems in a way that isn't harder than either alone.
<SpamapS> persia: this is the first I've known its a mistake, and I'll be correcting it. :)
<SpamapS> ScottK: Agreed.. it feels broken as-is. 3.0 (bzr) would be awesome.
<persia> ScottK, For Format 1.0 packages, we have a working way to deal with bzr.  For Format 3.0 (quilt), it's sufficiently complex that it's often easier to post a debdiff after using bzr-buildpackage -S --dont-purge or similar, sadly.
<persia> SpamapS, 3.0 (bzr) won't help for most packages, as most come from Debian, and the Debian maintainers often don't use bzr.
<ScottK> 3.0($VCS) is still pretty well not figured out anyway.
<persia> Indeed.
<SpamapS> awesome, well its good to know that I am not alone in thinking this feels a bit duct-tape-and-chewing-gum-ish. :)
 * SpamapS must be going, and so disappears ... <POOF>
<ari-tczew> nxvl: ping
<ari-tczew> sponsoring overview not updating anymore again :(
<nxvl> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> nxvl: could you take a look whether we can sync terminator from Debian unstable?
<nxvl> ari-tczew: yes we can
<ari-tczew> nxvl: the one remaining file in Ubuntu delta is /po/.intltool-merge-cache
<nxvl> just sync it
<nxvl> i only upload to ubuntu when my debian sponsor is taking long and we have a freeze comming
<nxvl> and i upload the same to both distros
<nxvl> so go ahead
<ari-tczew> nxvl: thanks
<ari-tczew> debfx: thanks for your working on merges
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: hah, it was AlanBell's merge proposal into lp:asher that broke the sponsoring overview :)
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: care to delete that (and yes that bug should be fixed)
<vish>  *lp:dasher
<tumbleweed> yes. btw easy bug, I'll propose a fix
 * vish guilty of asking AlanBell to do that :s â¦ 
<vish> i dint notice it was the upstream branch at first, took me a couple of mins to realize it but AlanBell was fast ;)
<AlanBell> tumbleweed: sure, the conversation is continuing upstream on that one
<AlanBell> what do you want me to delete?
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: the merge proposal into lp:dasher
<AlanBell> it is gone
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: thanks :)
<AlanBell> I never quite understood the point of the lp:dasher sync from gnome
<AlanBell> if the package comes from Debian
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: if someone wanted to do a daily-build PPA for dasher, the sync would be a prerequisite
<AlanBell> ah ok
<tumbleweed> also, if someone wants to work on (or fork) dasher, in launchpad (i.e. someone who doesn't know git), it would be helpful. (although you obviously have to submit something upstream to get upstream's attention)
<AlanBell> at the moment as far as I can tell it isn't used for anything
<AlanBell> yeah, just confused me because I didn't know where the real upstream was
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: yeah, this one looks dead and should be deleted...
<AlanBell> a daily build ppa is an interesting thought
<AlanBell> but as dasher in Maverick is reasonably non-crashy I am not sure how important it would be
<tumbleweed> AlanBell: filed https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/129762
<AlanBell> cool thanks
<vish> tumbleweedÂ¦ i asked that Q in #lp about the abandoned svn, and they said someone might have requested it..
<vish> also, it seems mirroring from git to svn to lp o.0
<vish> hmm, no! its just constantly trying from svn when its now moved to git..!
<bilalakhtar> maco: There? Should I go ahead with merging netkit-tftp or you are doing it?
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: did you see mail about wu-ftpd? it's free for you
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: ah yes, doing that right now as you speak :)
<bilalakhtar> back, sorry for the abrupt quit
<sebner> RainCT: debious? Wth?
<iulian> Heh.
<RainCT> sebner: :P.
<RainCT> sebner: I hadn't blogged for a couple weeks, had to write something :P.
<sebner> RainCT: yet another dubios gui for debian packaging :P
<RainCT> sebner: Well, I got tired of seeing awful GUIs out there so I made this mockup. Turns out it's pretty much like james_w's design (which I had forgotten).
<sebner> RainCT: I guess the problem is not the awful GUI but the idea in general :P
<RainCT> sebner: Nah, I think a well-done GUI could end up being useful.
<sebner> RainCT: dunno about that, what do you criticise on the available guis?
<RainCT> Eg. I'd love to be able to open a maverick package, change the target in debian/changelog to lucid, press "upload to PPA" and have it do everything (including test-building if I'd choose to do so)
<RainCT> sebner: All GUIs I've seen so far were bad jokes with stuff like "checkinstall" buttons
<sebner> heh
<sebner> RainCT: sed, dput, pbuilder :P
<RainCT> sebner: Yup, that's typing many lines (cp -R <...> /tmp; cd /tmp/...; sed; debuild ....; pbui...; dput;) vs a button. Not really that much difference but the later "feels" easier.
<sebner> RainCT: well, if it's done properly
<AlanBell> I am having a first play with packaging recipies to do daily builds, but it is failing to build for me, not sure if I have stuffed up the instructions somewhere
<AlanBell> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+recipe/daily-dash-of-dasher
<AlanBell> actually, just failed on Maverick and Natty, but build successfully on Lucid
<AlanBell> Maverick build log is here http://launchpadlibrarian.net/57749157/buildlog.txt.gz
#ubuntu-motu 2010-10-17
<micahg> SpamapS: around?
<ScottK> AlanBell: It looks like your recipe fails to specify the necessary build-depends be installed, but I've zero experience with recipies, so I've no advice on that.
<AlanBell> ok, thanks ScottK. Odd that I took the debian stuff from the current maverick package and now it builds on Lucid, but not Maverick
<AnAnt> anyone using cowbuilder ?
<ari-tczew> if someone changed B-D debhelper from 5 to 7, should also bump it in debian/compat file?
<sebner> ari-tczew: yes
<ari-tczew> then I found a bug
<geser> ari-tczew: what was the reason to bump debhelper to 7?
<ari-tczew> geser: * Bump build-depend on debhelper to install udev rules into /lib/udev/rules.d, add Breaks on udev to get correct version
<ari-tczew> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends-extras/1.0.19.11ubuntu2
<ari-tczew> debhelper (>= 7.0.17ubuntu2)
<ari-tczew> is it necessary? >= 7 is not enough?
<sebner> ari-tczew: depends, I guess he wanted the change that was made in debhelper 7.0.17ubuntu2
<geser> ari-tczew: I guess not as we want the specific behaviour for udev rules which got probably added in that debhelper version
<sebner> jaunty is EOL in 5 days and that's not really a bug though
<ari-tczew> sebner, geser: but at this moment practically, will get debhelper 8, so I don't understand depend on stricte 17ubuntu2
<sebner> ari-tczew: this was done in jaunty ...
<ari-tczew> sebner: I know. I want to merge this one and I want to be sure, whether B-D on debhelper (>= 7) is enough
<geser> ari-tczew: our debhelper 8 package probably has that change too (either patched or included in the debian version)
<sebner> ari-tczew: I strongly suspect it isn't ;)
<ari-tczew> sebner: makes no sense
<geser> ari-tczew: think about backporting
<ari-tczew> geser: why?
<Rhonda> Please use 7.0.17ubuntu2~ instead of without the ~
<Rhonda> Otherwise it might hinder backports.
<sebner> ari-tczew: well, of course *now* a newer debhelper version gets installed but if there is someone backporting it where debhelper is older than ..17ubuntu2 you get problems
<sebner> hola Rhonda =)
<ari-tczew> geser: I don't use this package (perhaps). I could upload a SRU which change debian/compat correctly
<sebner> ari-tczew: not important enough for a SRU
<Rhonda> The thing is, do you know what the impact of that change would be?
<ari-tczew> install udev correctly
<sebner> ari-tczew: why do you think this isn't the case now?
<ari-tczew> sebner: I don't understand your question. I don't want drop this delta.
<sebner> ari-tczew: right, I guess you want to know if you should bump debian/compat too?
<ari-tczew> sebner: I guessed that I should bump debian/compat. I would ask to be sure.
<sebner> ari-tczew: yeah, I think so
<Laney> wait, what?
<Laney> compat level doesn't have to correspond with debhelper BD version
<ari-tczew> Laney: you didn't understand. B-D was on debhelper 7, but d/compat says 5
<Laney> see the debhelper manpage for the meaning of the various compat levels
<Laney> I do understand
<ari-tczew> Laney: so d/compat is not necessary?
<Laney> matching it to the debhelper major version isn't necessary
<Laney> debhelper(7) explains more
<ari-tczew> Laney: so if I will bump d/compat also, I will be fired?
<AnAnt> anyone using cowbuilder ? xulrunner-1.9.2 doesn't seem  to install in a maverick cowbuilder chroot
<Laney> ari-tczew: err, I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm just saying that it's not necessary. I'd never bump it in a diverging change from Debian unless that is the correct way to fix a bug.
<ari-tczew> Laney: pedantic I'll bump it
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> it's another delta to maintain
<Laney> but do what you will
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: why would you bump it? Does it have any benefit?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: yes, not confusing which debhelper uses
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: compat is different to a minimum required version. It tells debhelper how this package expects debhelper to behave.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: odd.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: not really. It allows debhelper to make incompatible changes and still produce predictable builds.
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: on your responsibility, I'll leave compat 5.
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: we don't change things unecessarily (you'll find many packages using compat 5)
<Laney> this is why I advised you to look at the manpage. It tells you what will change when you update compat.
 * persia encourages *not* changing compat levels without very good reasons, as this can change the behaviour of the dh_* tools in unexpected ways
<directhex> 7!
<persia> Only if the rest of the packaging is set to match...  If folk *really* care about that stuff, emulate directhex and go make the changes in Debian.
<geser> directhex: 5040 :)
<directhex> 400!
<nigelb> 42
<geser> 6.40345228466238952 * 10^868
 * geser hopes that this is precise enough
<persia> Depends what one wishes to accomplish.  I don't think it's sufficient to enable transmogrifications.
<kklimonda> up to 11 ;)
<kklimonda> good afternoon
<geser> does someone know a good example for how to use dpkg-vendor in debian/rules?
<simar> ari-tczew, ping
<ari-tczew> simar: pong
<simar> ari-tczew, haha
<simar> ari-tczew, i'm learning some packaging now .. i hope i can do merging and syncs ..
<ari-tczew> simar: I must go out right now.
<ari-tczew> simar: good luck and have fun
<simar> ari-tczew, :((
<simar> ari-tczew, c ya later..
<simar> ari-tczew, i will try to get help here
<ari-tczew> simar: friend from Ireland is visiting our country. we didn't see 2 years.
<simar> ari-tczew, go dude and rock out.. we'll catch up later
<simar> shadeslayer, see you facebook ..
<simar> shadeslayer, there??
<simar> hey could anyone here give me a start on merges and syncs .. i'm almost started packaging but need small overview ..
<Bachstelze> simar: sync is when the Debian package is imported in Ubuntu as is (i.e. no ubuntuX version number added)
<simar> Bachstelze, ya i know that
<Bachstelze> merge is when we have a package in UBuntu that has diverted from Debian and a new Debian version is out, we need to check whether some Ubuntu changes are made irrelevant by the new Debian version, and if so, drop them
<Bachstelze> and document those that were kept and why
<simar> Bachstelze, I want to contribute to that, could you guide me from where can i start
<simar> Bachstelze, I have read twice tha ubuntu packaging guide and i have a print out of it for reference
<Bachstelze> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<Bachstelze> syncing should be done automagically
<ScottK> Except for if there used to be Ubuntu changes needed, but they've all been incorporated by Debian and we can sync over a merge.  That has to be requested.
<simar> Bachstelze, It means we need not do anything to sync
<simar> If all of the reasons that the Ubuntu version existed (bug fixes, dependencies, etc.) are fixed in the new Debian package (or if the residual difference is sufficiently trivial it's not worth the maintenance overhead of merging) then we can just take the Debian package directly.
<simar> we can just take the debian package directly .. is this automatic
<tumbleweed> simar: no, you have to request the sync (with requestsync). That's what ScottK was saying.
<simar> tumbleweed, ok thanks..
<Bachstelze> yes, I meant syncing if the Ubuntu package has not diverted from Debian
<Bachstelze> if it has, you have to request it as ScottK said
<persia> geser, http://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/27/different-dependencies-between-debian-and-ubuntu-but-common-source-package/ isn't precisely an example, but may help
<simar> https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
 * ajmitch should probably try & do one or two of them
<simar> are these all packages to be merged .. or already merged .. i mean i'm not getting what are the tabs mean there
<ajmitch> packages still to be merged
 * geser is fighting with one merge most part of this day
<ari-tczew> geser: vim?
<geser> yes
<ari-tczew> I saw discussion on #ubuntu-devel.
<geser> the hard part is to get it build with gcc-4.5 which seems to be a vim upstream problem
<simar> shadeslayer, ping
<ari-tczew> ScottK: what do you think about Depends on gnupg for binary pinentry-gtk2 ?
<ScottK> Not much, why?
<ari-tczew> without gnupg, pinentry-gtk2 won't show window for password
<ScottK> ari-tczew: gnupg is in minimal.  Without minimal installed, a system isn't really guaranteed t work.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: anyway, it should depend on gnupg. I did a fresh installation and my maverick lost window for password. then I've installed gnupg and window for password came back
<azeem> ari-tczew: shouldn't whatever uses pinentry-gtk2 in combination with gnupg depend on both?
<ScottK> If you have ubuntu-minimal installed, how did you not have gnupg?
<geser> and which password did you want to enter in pinentry?
<ari-tczew> geser: when I'm signing source package
<ScottK> None of the other pinentry's have it either.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: dunno
<geser> ari-tczew: how did you planned to sign without gpg?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: Since it ubuntu-minimal depends on gnupg, I think something else was up.
<ari-tczew> geser: I don't understand the question. where I wrote about my plans?
<azeem> ari-tczew: it's not pinentry-gtk2's fault that gnupg isn't installed
<ari-tczew> azeem: hmm. any ideas?
<azeem> 23:10 < azeem> ari-tczew: shouldn't whatever uses pinentry-gtk2 in combination with gnupg depend on both?
<azeem> 23:12 < ScottK> ari-tczew: Since it ubuntu-minimal depends on gnupg, I think something else was up.
<geser> ari-tczew: I'm wondering why you want to enter a password without a program to do the signature
<simar> I want to merge/sync packages for natty .. i used sudo pbuilder create
<simar> and then sudo pbuilder update --distribution natty --override-config
<simar> is it correct..
<persia> simar, You might find pbuilder-dist from ubuntu-dev-tools interesting.
<simar> persia, i'm a beginner in packaging .. trying to merge my first package .. isn't what i did will work
<persia> I recommend against starting with merging, if you're a beginner :)
<persia> I've no idea if what you did might work: I don't use pbuilder.
<simar> persia, no i'm beginner in merging
<simar> persia, i have done some packaging before
<persia> Do you have any outstanding changes you made that need to be merged?
<simar> persia, actually i'm still looking at the package that weather it need merging or just a sync will work..
<simar> https://merges.ubuntu.com/i/ikiwiki/REPORT
<simar> persia, this is the report of the package
<simar> It is updated frequently in debian .. I hope a sync will be ok for it..
<tumbleweed> simar: start by reading the diffs, see what Ubuntu has changed
<persia> Testing in pbuilder won't help determine if that is still required.
<tumbleweed> simar: It helps to ask for help when you are stuck. "Is this right" is a hard question to answer
 * tumbleweed isn't making much sense there...
<simar> ya, but i thought before all i can see if the new debian version will get properly build at all or not..
<simar> so i tried to use pbuilder for that.. but  i want for natty and i have it for licid
<simar> right now
<tumbleweed> simar: look at pbuilder-dist, it lets you have multiple pbuilders without much work.
<persia> pbuilder won't test that.  No local build will test that, because of the specific issue.
<simar> persia, but if i build in pbuilder using sudo pbuilder *.dsc isn't that will help me determine that the package correctly builds or not ..
<simar> persia, i know i will have to still look into patches for merging ..
<tumbleweed> simar: persia is talking about the reason Ubuntu patched ikiwiki. Read the changelog
<persia> simar, No, it won't.  The specific issue for the ikiwiki merge cannot be tested using pbuilder.
<simar> tumbleweed,  .. i think have to look into patches the 'old ubuntu'.patch and the 'new debian'.patch
<persia> simar, So, would you like to go through this merge in great and exhausting detail?  I'd be happy to do that.  You won't need a pbuilder for natty.
<simar> persia, ya sure i will appriatiate that
<persia> (and I still don't think merges are a good place to start until one has done some bugfixes, and been *assigned* some merges)
<persia> simar, OK.  The first step is to look at the changelog entries in Ubuntu since the last reconciliation with Debian.  We have a description of a change to fix a specific issue.
<simar> persia, ok
<simar> persia, i have fixed some FTBFS before though..
<persia> The explained change is that wdg-html-validator is not being used as a build-dependency, because the namespace definition is a URI that requires network access during build.
<persia> simar, Excellent.  Are any of the FTBFS fixes ready to be merged yet?
<simar> persia, i did those some 3 months back ..
<persia> I'm not sure I see the connection.
<simar> persia, URI?
<kklimonda> is there a way to marry git packaging branches from debian with our, bzr-based ones?
<persia> Basically, my opinion is that folks should concentrate on bugfixing until they are assigned merges because they did the bugfix, at which point they will be in a better position to understand the merge details.
<persia> kklimonda, Not in any sane way, no.  You might try a vcs-imports branch of debian, but for non-native, it's unlikely to correspond to anything bzr-buildpackage expects.
<persia> simar, http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml
<persia> Also http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom
<simar> persia, ok .. i take you opinion. so I will work on some more bug fixes before merging ..
<kklimonda> persia: so the only sane workflow is to work on both branches separately using patches, minimalize delta and then make package syncable or mergeable with the smallest changes possible?
<persia> simar, I'm still happy to walk through *this* merge with you if you like, just in general I think it's better to wait until you've been assigned some.
<kklimonda> I wonder if there is something like dpkg-vendor for patches ;)
<micahg> kklimonda: you can manage the ubuntu branch in debian git
<persia> kklimonda, Don't use the vendor patch hack in dpkg unless you have a *really* strong reason.  It makes it much harder to get back in sync.
<kklimonda> micahg: hmm, sounds like a nice idea but then I'm outside of the warm and fuzzy LP space :)
<simar> persia, ya i too.. thanks
<kklimonda> persia: I'm not planning to :)
<persia> Personally, I find it easiest to ignore bzr when working with Debian packages in git: one can use git, generate some patches, apply those, and upload (or submit a debdiff if one does it that way)
<persia> There's lots of infrastructure in place that will make the upload into a bzr branch appropriate.
<micahg> persia: why not use dpkg-vendor, especially if Debian will take a patch?
<kklimonda> well, I'd hate to hack applying a patch using dpkg-vendor
<kklimonda> I was hoping for some way to indicate that the patch is ubuntu only
<persia> micahg, I don't have an objection to dpkg-vendor: I have an objection to the way that vendor-specific patch application hackery works for Format: 3.0 (quilt) packages: there's no sane means to derive or overlay: if one starts, one needs to maintain multiple separate series trees.
<kklimonda> either a field in patch's description or even a naming scheme (like 00-20 for upstream patches, 21-40 for debian, 41-60 for derivatives, 61-80 for local etc.)
<micahg> persia: oh, that thing with distro specific patches?
 * micahg saw a post on that recently
<azeem> yeah, I thought that was bad design as well
<persia> The issue is that it's been around for a *very* long time, so someone has to investigate to ensure no regressions if the design is to be changed.
<persia> And there's all sorts of complicated reasons involving handling .pc/ that make it hard to do in a layered manner.
<azeem> it won't change apparently
<simar> * s
<azeem> and there's a bug with the .pc handling which I forgot to file, damn
<persia> simar, So, the first step is to make sure we understand the precise problem being fixed.  Do you understand about wdg-html-validator?
<simar> persia, no
<persia> simar, OK.  So, do you know what wdg-html-validator does?
<kklimonda> hmm, looks like I've don rm -rf in a wrong folder.. yay me
 * ajmitch hopes it wasn't anything important
<simar> persia, no ..
<simar> persia, not even heard of it
<kklimonda> fortunately I've kept the folder synced with right repositories so I don't think I've lost much.
<persia> simar, OK.  So, you might start by reading the description of the wdg-html-validator package (apt-cache show)
<simar> persia, seems helping
 * kklimonda wonders why does we use bzr and not git - It would make working with debian.. and most upstreams so much easier :/
<persia> kklimonda, Huge chunks of us don't use bzr.  Lots of us use git.
<kklimonda> persia: ok, let me rephrase that - I wonder why is LP (and our distributed development model) built around bzr and not git
<kklimonda> i guess all those years back it wasn't clear if git is going to get so popular
<persia> Oh, because sabdfl likes bzr, and he owns the company that does LP, and he funded the work on the distributed development model.
<azeem> git wasn't on the radar back then I think
<kklimonda> yeah, that's the likely reason.. actuall both are :)
<simar> persia, i read it got some idea .. of what it do
<ajmitch> & LP has been developed to work with bzr for the last 5 or so years
<persia> Wasn't LP developed *with* bzr even before it changed to be called "bzr"?
<ajmitch> yes
<kklimonda> hmm, is there any way to get gconf schemas installed without actually having gconf as a dependency (both build-time and install-time)?
<persia> You don't need it at build-time if you use a static file to set defaults and schemas.
<ajmitch> http://jelmer.vernstok.nl/blog/archives/263-Samba-4-and-OpenChange-daily-Ubuntu-packages.html gives a good example of using upstream git branches
<ajmitch> though that doesn't solve the problem of merging debian git branches
<kklimonda> persia: well, I actually care more about runtime (or installation time) dependency :)
<persia> simar, So, do you understand the changelog entry?
<ajmitch> it should be possible though
<persia> kklimonda, So, here's the thing: if you're setting gconf, you must have an expectation that this will affect something, so obviously you'd want things to be able to read the settings you made, so you need gconf installed.
<simar> persia, i only got that it should be dropped from build-depends but why i didn't get..
<simar> persia, generated <html> elements
<simar> persia, from where it gets generated
<kklimonda> persia: well, in this case the only reason for using gconf is to set up transmission as a default handler for magnet: links
<kklimonda> I wonder if it could be done with .desktop file..
<persia> kklimonda, And which use case do you seek to support that would not involve gconf being installed?
<simar> persia, also xmlns.. what is it, i don't know
<persia> simar, http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/
<kklimonda> persia: transmission works fine without gconf installed - in this case an association of magnet: links with transmission is left to user.
<persia> Hmm.  Well, if it's just that, I agree adding gconf as a dependency seems heavy.
<persia> You could try with a mime type handler (remember to register both in .desktop file and debian/mime-types~
<persia> But that depends on the browser using the desktop or the Debian MIME system to determine what to use as a viewer.
<simar> persia, I think i picked the wrong package .. I have no idea of it .. i think i will try to get it by tomorrow if possible .. its 3am already and i think i must sleep for tomorrows calss at 8 .. thanks though for helping me out
<simar> persia, i will take seek advide on bug fixes tomorrow ..
<persia> simar, Have a good night.  This was actually a trivially simple merge :)  This is why I recommend folks start by merging stuff they changed before: makes the understanding part faster.
<kklimonda> I don't know if magnet links (which are in basic a hash of a torrent) have their own mime type. I did think about it right now though and will investigate. I've had two other ideas - dlopening libgconf at the runtime and installing mimehandler as a gconf schema. dlopen would still require a dependency (but I could probably downgrade it to Recommends or even Suggests) and gconf schemas still have
<persia> Sleep well.
<kklimonda> to be installed using gconf-schemas binary.
<persia> kklimonda, If you are going to use a gconf schema, put up with a gconf-dependency.  Working around that is only likely to cause you pain.
<persia> But there's no reason you can't create a MIME type for magnet: the hard part there is working with other parties to ensure it is generally accepted.
<simar> persia, i din't get what you mean .. do you mean i should start by mearging to understand faster
<kklimonda> and yeah - gconf (and probably a dozen other libraries) are a little heavy dependency only for that. That's why Debian doesn't ship transmission with it, maintainer has actually considered creating another package - transmission-gnome which links with libgconf (and libcanberra, but that's another thing)
<persia> simar, Ask me tomorrow :)  I meant that your first merges should be the merges for your FTBFS stuff (or other bugfixing) when it shows in the queue.
<kklimonda> persia: is it actually possible to create a mime type for a scheme?
<persia> transmission-gnome was my other thought, but that would be too heavy for just magnet:
<simar> persia, thanks :))
<persia> kklimonda, Could you rephrase?
<kklimonda> persia: hmm.. uri is created from scheme:path?query#fragment and magnet link is just magnet:?xt=um;some_hash and that's more or less it
<kklimonda> persia: there is no file associated with it -  you just enter this uri to any program that is compatible and you are good to go.
<persia> So, MIME is about the content of some stream/file/etc.  Has nothing to do with URIs.
<persia> What?  if I access the URI, what am I expected to get as a return?
<ajmitch> kklimonda: how does it currently work for the browser to associate magnet: & transmission?
<kklimonda> persia: well, application can turn this uri into torrent's hash and then, using dht and pex (both are distributed means of getting list of peers) client learns how to obtain data that this hash is for
<kklimonda> ajmitch: transmission, when first run, uses gconf to set itself as a handler for magnet:
<persia> So would it be sane to claim that such a URI represents a torrent hash?
<kklimonda> persia: yes, among other things
<persia> Well, needs a definition to use a MIME type...
<kklimonda> what do you mean?
<kklimonda> I could probably create a transmission-gnome package which only job would be to register uri handler - I can make it depend on transmission-gtk.. and then start thinking how to propose a new Uri: field for desktop files ;)
<persia> So, MIME is a way to provide a machine-readable description of a file/stream/whatever so that the system can know how to process it.
<persia> Don't: a URI field in .desktop files is exceedingly unlikely to be accepted, for any number of incredibly good reasons.
<persia> A URI is intended to be a globally unique pointer to some file/stream/whatever (resource).
<kklimonda> right
<persia> So, if you can describe the resource that a magnet: URI references, you can use that description to describe the MIME type of the result.
<persia> And you can set the MIME handler, and stuff ought just work.
<persia> Without a definition for the resource the URI references, you can't have a MIME type (and arguably, shouldn't have a URI)
<kklimonda> persia: I was actually thinking of a way for application to say "hey, I can handle following uri schemas"
<persia> Note that a given resource may have more than one MIME-type
<persia> (for example, I might give you a URI for "Moby Dick" that could provide text/plain, text/html, etc.)
<kklimonda> yes, but applications interested in a specific uri are most likely to handle it in some way - in case of Firefox it may be launching an external application.
<kklimonda> ha, I've actually found post of someone working on it: http://www.hadess.net/2010/10/new-control-center-and-you.html
<kklimonda> I'm not saying that Fx launching an external application is a good thing - but that it would be a nice thing to have an easy and cross desktop way of defining that you can handle some uri
 * persia grumbles at the inelegance of that solution
<kklimonda> I think it's just a hack for now
<kklimonda> there is a discussion on xdg mailing list related to it, I'm trying to find actual mails now.
<kklimonda> http://www.mail-archive.com/xdg@lists.freedesktop.org/msg06217.html here we go
 * persia thinks aseigo's criticism is good, and that KDE did this right already
<persia> But really, the entire mess is ugly.
<persia> A nice clean implementation would have a set of libraries that just handled various URIs, and programs encountering them could call into the libraries.
<persia> We don't really need N implementations of each protocol handler (although N implementations of each MIME-handler is nice)
<kklimonda> persia: but there would still have to be a way to register your application with this new system.
<persia> Why?
<kklimonda> what do you mean by "N implementations of each protocol handler?"
<persia> Lets use FTP as an example.
<kklimonda> for example, when you install a new browser it has to register as a handler for http, https, maybe even ftp
<persia> I don't really need N implementations of FTP.  Just one, with flexible bindings.
<persia> So *every* application that needs FTP just uses the ftp handler.
<kklimonda> and I probably should not do this discussion at 1AM as I feel like I'm making an idiot out of myself..
<kklimonda> persia: but that's whishful thinking :)
<persia> So is Bastien's hacky misuse of MIME to handle URIs.
<persia> KDE has current protocol handlers, although they have vast scope for improvement.
<kklimonda> sure, I agree that KDE's solution is less hacky.
<persia> The main difference between the implementations we use today and wishful thinking is that someone spent a bit of time and wrote it down in a formalised manner.
<kklimonda> persia: as I understand your description you propose a layer between services and applications? This layer would register itself as the only handler for uri schemas and then application would make use of it?
<kklimonda> probably a little like gio
<kklimonda> and gvfs
<persia> Sure, although I'd naively probably try to use a D-Bus API for the protocol handlers.
<persia> Not saying it's best.
<persia> Anyway, at least talking about protocol handling gets it started.
<persia> And once we have protocol mapping, we can look at code consolidation between implmentations.
<persia> Not that this solves the transmission issue:
<persia> Because there's still no clear definition of the resource a magnet: URI references.  Runs into the same wall that way.
<kklimonda> right, to make it even more complicated magnet link is not really tied to BitTorrent - you can use it to describe files for othe p2p networks.
<kklimonda> for other*
<persia> Sure.  The trick is mostly to come up with a definition of the *resource* that a magnet link produces.
<persia> I'm sure it's not that hard, but I'm not sure that anyone put much thought into the semantics of it.
<kklimonda> I think my brain just exploded at "a definition of the resource" :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-10
<ScottK> tumbleweed: done.
<micahg> jbicha: I saw your blog post, have you seen backportpackage?
<jbicha> micahg: no, so many tools to learn :)
<jbicha> micahg: so it works the same way, just with one command instead of 2 or more?
<micahg> jbicha: yep
<dholbach> good morning
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: morning!
<dholbach> hi Q-FUNK
<Laney> greetings
 * tumbleweed waves
<Laney> will hopefully find time to review the queue shortly
<tumbleweed> it's eempty
<Laney> (yessssssssssssssssssssss)
<Laney> who let me upload?
 * Laney hopes the darcs fiasco is over
<Laney> tumbleweed: can I sync haskell-hashed-storage?
<Laney> and upload darcs to disable that broken test to fix arm/ppc
<ScottK> Laney: You can.
<Laney> thanks!
<Laney> should appear in the queue shortly
<ScottK> Approved the sync.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> No problem.
<Laney> bah, I finally got directory specific profiles working and now I'm forced to run update-maintainer again :P
<Laney> ScottK: darcs in queue
<ScottK> I'll have a look in  moment.
<Laney> merci
<Laney> now I can scrub my head of the knowledge of its testsuite internals
<Laney> for all the good looking at it did
<ScottK> Is it going to hurt my eyes to look at the diff once it arrives?
<Laney> no
<Laney> you'll see why my studying was worthless :-)
<ScottK> OK.  Good.
<ScottK> Laney: Accepted.
<Laney> thank you
<ScottK> No problem.
<pmjdebruijn> hi all
<pmjdebruijn> can anybody here give me some pointers on how to package an .xpi file? (containing themeing info)
<pmjdebruijn> I have general packaging experience
<pmjdebruijn> but it seems xpi files are both in /usr/lib/firefox-7.0.1/extensions/ and /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/
<micahg> pmjdebruijn: use mozilla-devscripts, there's an install-xpi binary
<micahg> pmjdebruijn: BTW, we're not accepting new extensions in Ubuntu, but Debian does take them
<Laney> What if everyone working on the ARB process instead worked on reviewing packages and backports for the main archive?
<Zhenech> Laney, ubuntu would suck less? *duck* ;)
<Laney> I think "let's throw man hours at bypassing the distribution" is absurd
<micahg> Laney: I don't think that would be good
<Laney> because these packages are so bad that we'd never want them in?
 * micahg thinks he needs to catch up on mail
<tumbleweed> Laney: considering that we have two published ARB apps, I'm not quite worried yet :)
<Laney> I've been worried since Brussels
<micahg> Laney: no, because backports being properly staffed could possibly help a lot of people keep popular apps updated
<Laney> ?
<tumbleweed> although I see 15 review requests
<Laney> I don't understand how that is a disagreement with my position :-)
<tumbleweed> arguably, if we can't staff our current processes, something is broken, and new processes may help. Then again, just "doing something" isn't the cure
<Laney> well the new process in this case is basically just a combined archive + backports queue
<Laney> for some reason people want to review these packages but not those rotting in revu
<tumbleweed> because it's new and shiny? :)
<tumbleweed> and they get to sit on a board
<tumbleweed> clearly we aren't making MOTU sexy enough. (or maybe we are just whining)
<Laney> poor old sad motu :(
 * Laney curls up on it
<ajmitch> poor Laney :)
 * Laney gets in between ajmitch's legs
<ajmitch> uh
 * Elbrus bets it is way too late to have any change in getting bug 871332 fixed (is not a high-impact bug, just very annoying that I will get the bug reports)
<Laney> hahahaha
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871332 in winff (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] presets shipped with winff should be updated to match ffmpeg in oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871332
<Laney> i didn't mean that to sound sexy
 * ajmitch goes back into hiding
<Laney> i wanted to be a cat :(
<Laney> oh god right that is it i am never speakig again BYE
<tumbleweed> Laney: actually probably far simpler than that. ARB is trying to recruit. MOTU is twiddling its thumbs
<Elbrus> should I still file the debdiff to fix it? (Nearly done).
<Laney> that is true
<Laney> Elbrus: we can get it in if you're quick with the debdiff
<Elbrus> uploading now
<Elbrus> attached
<Elbrus> Laney, that would be great.
 * Elbrus is glad he is asking ;)
<ScottK> Laney: I suspect that Debian will be gaining some new users soon.  The ones that like the idea of an actual release.
<Laney> at least that is one thing I can be thankful for MOTU for. Making me appreciate the release, and Debian even more.
<Laney> geser: dmb?
<Laney> Elbrus: where did you get the patch from? why does a soname bump imply these changes?
<Elbrus> I made the patch (as part of my help to upstream)
<Laney> have they applied it there?
<Elbrus> the soname changed the interface to ffmpeg
<Elbrus> it is in the download section (will find the url)
<Elbrus> http://code.google.com/p/winff/downloads/detail?name=presets-libavcodec53-v1.xml.gz&can=2&q=
<Elbrus> that is where I base the debian and ubuntu presets on in the package
<Elbrus> I don't use it as is because libaac is not supported by default in ubuntu and debian
<Elbrus> and the diff between ubuntu and debian was because long time debian didn't have the libavcodec-extra-xx package (but now they do
<Elbrus> )
<Elbrus> next debian package will have one preset file for both debian and ubuntu, exactly containing the presets as they are now in the debdiff
<Laney> nice
<Elbrus> but if it was slightly possible I wanted to have these changes in Oneiric
<Elbrus> so decided to do that first now
 * Elbrus will probably create the new debian package tonight or on wednesday.
<Elbrus> Laney: do you want me to add the above expaination to the bug report?
<Laney> no that's fine
<Laney> i am in a meeting now, maybe someone else can upload it
<ajmitch> ScottK: you don't agree with the recent suggestions then? :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: No, but I don't find them suprising.
<ajmitch> I'm surprised that there'd be this push to use extras.u.c instead of universe for far more applications
<ScottK> It's completely the opposite thing from making sense.
<ScottK> "Oh, there's not enough people to review new packages and many of the existing packages are crap"
<ajmitch> it also won't scale at all with the current processes for the ARB
<ScottK> "Hey, we can fix that by creating an entirely new process to allow more crap in after more detailed review."
<ajmitch> it's more like moving the piles of crap from one heap to another
<ScottK> No, the rules are relaxed, so it's actually inviting increasing levels of crap.
<ajmitch> at a cost of more review time, and more pain on the part of packagers & reviewers
 * ajmitch really wishes he could log in to his work desktop sometime today
<ScottK> Like I said: It does the opposite of solving any actual problems.
<ajmitch> this laptop keyboard is annoying
<ajmitch> one mitigating factor to cut down on the crap levels is that packages in extras.ubuntu.com don't get carried over from one release to another
<ajmitch> that's also something that increases reviewing time when it comes to the next version
<micahg> ajmitch: not everything needs an update every 6 months
<jbicha> the extras repository never made much sense to me, I don't see how it really helps Ubuntu or the developers
<lifeless> ajmitch: whats wrong with your work machine ?
<ajmitch> lifeless: thrashing
<micahg> jbicha: it was pitched as something for apps that didn't have a lifespan beyond a few months
<lifeless> ajmitch: \o/
<ajmitch> lifeless: I can get as far as connecting & getting the host key, but ssh is hanging after that
 * ajmitch needs more than 8GB of RAM :)
<tumbleweed> ScottK: well, volunteer motivation isn't man-hours that can be moved around by managers. People feel more or less motivated to work on projects. And providing an interesting project can draw people.
<lifeless> ajmitch: thats tricky to get w/out server hardware
<lifeless> ajmitch: I *just* managed 16GB for my dev workstation
<ScottK> tumbleweed: True, which is another reason moving stuff to extras doesn't make sense.
<ajmitch> lifeless: nah, you can get laptops with 16GB of RAM now, it's becoming more common in workstations
<tumbleweed> :)
<lifeless> ajmitch: laptops w/16? I haven't seen that (in the x201 space that is :P)
<ajmitch> micahg: not having a package carry over from one release to the next because of lack of reviewer time, even if the package doesn't change, doesn't feel good
<micahg> lifeless: system76 :)
<ScottK> micahg: I think it was pitched by people who think 22 crap versions of solitaire is why Android is successful.
<lifeless> ajmitch: the latest <blah codename> from intel will do 32GB tops in the desktop range
<ajmitch> lifeless: it was either zareason or system76 that had one like that
<jbicha> or by photobomb's rapid release cycle where the dev doesn't want to support old versions
<lifeless> ajmitch: and to do that you need some crazy arse hard to get dimms
<micahg> ajmitch: some stuff just works, I like Debian's policy of at least one upload per cycle (2 yrs), some stuff doesn't really need more than that
<jbicha> I really like submitting to Debian first, it was confusing and frightening at first to figure out who to talk to, to get my app reviewed
<jbicha> but it seems a better process than revu or especially the extras idea
<tumbleweed> yeah, debian-mentors is *way* more active than revu
<ajmitch> micahg: at the moment each arb submission needs a code review & then a majority vote from arb members
 * ajmitch has to note that the requirement for /opt/extras.ubuntu.com is a bit of a pain to get right
<tumbleweed> yeah I don't really get the point of that
<tumbleweed> I suppose it makes reviewing easier, though
<SpamapS> hrm, how does one get a wiki page on help.ubuntu.com renamed?
<ajmitch> I haven't seen one submission get it right first try
<ajmitch> it's meant so that there won't be a conflict with anything shipped by the distribution
<ajmitch> but what it means is that there's some hackery to work in
<lifeless> SpamapS: log in
 * tumbleweed thinks I got quite close on the first try, but I cheated by being an ubuntu developer :P
<ajmitch> & yours was dead simple
<tumbleweed> that too, although I had to bundle a library
<Laney> :O
 * ajmitch watches Laney wince
<ScottK> With enough automated QA testing we could have automated removals and allow anyone to upload and eliminate the requirement for distro developers completely.
<ajmitch> sounds great, then we could all just relax
<lifeless> bwaha
<tumbleweed> ScottK: stop scaring us
<SpamapS> lifeless: am logged in, Rename is greyed out
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Please plan for this at the next UDS.  Sorry I won't be there to help.
<lifeless> SpamapS: odd
<jbicha> in Soviet Russia, Ubuntu packages you!
<tumbleweed> ScottK: plan an ARB discussion?
<lifeless> SpamapS: did you logout and in again ? (per the moin openid fail) ?
<Laney> UDS can happen without ScottK?
<ScottK> tumbleweed: No, the automatic one.
<tumbleweed> aah, automated removals sounds useful. Right now, our QA lags behind debian, badly
<ScottK> SpamapS: h.u.c is a separate wiki from w.u.c, so you may have limited permissions.  I think you need to docs team person like jbicha.
<jbicha> I don't even have permissions for the wiki yet, maybe I should ask though...
<ScottK> jbicha: If you don't, you know people who do ...
<jbicha> SpamapS: you might be able to just create a new page and change the old one into just a redirect
<SpamapS> Ok, that makes sense
<SpamapS> Need to rename https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Orchestra/JuJu to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Orchestra/Juju
<SpamapS> Ok yeah I'll try that instead
<SpamapS> ok, done w/ a redirect
<c_korn> is there a documentation about the changes between debhelper 7 and 8 ?
<jtaylor> c_korn: man debhelper?
<c_korn> yeah, I know this. but maybe changes regarding the new fance options in debian/rules for example?
<tumbleweed> Elbrus: your debdiff looks reasonable, I'll sponsor it
<Elbrus> tumbleweed: great
<Laney> there we go, got my meeting duties out of the way in record time
 * Elbrus is going to bed with a good feeling
<Laney> dang, I wanted to ask him if he was a climber
<tumbleweed> ScottK: talking of automated removals. I did something about monitoring merge age: http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/oldmerges/
<tumbleweed> (hacked up ages ago, but never got around to running it. It also hammers lp rather hard :/ )
<ajmitch> sorting by the superseded column is an interesting read
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's the main aim
 * Laney nmued hp-ppd recently
 * ajmitch looks at gallary2 in debian & sees 4 RC bugs
<Laney> poor poor webapps
<Laney> not that it's in unstable any more
<Laney> s/unstable/stable/
<ajmitch> I thought it was just removed from testing
<Laney> & testing
<ajmitch> since we get all the cruft from unstable, we get these wonderful packages
<milli> ScottK: what kind of koolaid have you been drinking today?  ;-)
<pmjdebruijn> micahg: thanks
<micahg> Laney: well, next time, we'll do a precise sync from testing
<tumbleweed> which also means we should look at what debian has currently removed from testing
<micahg> yep
<Laney> i imagine the normal process-removals script can/will be tweaked
<Laney> maybe s/imagine/hope/ :-)
<tumbleweed> which means parsing all the debian release team's hint files...
<ScottK> milli: It's more likely I was being sarcastic.
<milli> ScottK: ;-)
<ScottK> tumbleweed: It would have been nice to have this before now ...  Definitely something to attend to for precise QA.
<Laney> reasons aren't readily available indeed, but we can do it on a best-effort basis
<jtaylor> why is jython in main? oO
<tumbleweed> ScottK: sorry, had it a month ago :(
<Laney> please get that on some kind of QA index
 * tumbleweed gets the feeling he needs to get into an ubuntuwire team
<geser> tumbleweed: should it be easier now as LP has proper published state for Debian?
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: what do you need & where?
 * ScottK points tumbleweed at #ubuntuwire ....
<Laney> also the FTBFS graphs that you've got
 * tumbleweed moved the conversation to #ubuntuwire
 * Laney entrusts
<Laney> can we have a report for "packages in universe not in debian with bugs with severity >= high"?
<ajmitch> Laney: patches welcome ;)
<ajmitch> it shouldn't be too hard, actually
<Laney> quite
<tumbleweed> if lp bugs were in UDD, that'd be so easy...
<OwaisL> Guys, I added a patch to python-distutils-extra for auto detection of gobject-introspection modules. Anyone interested in testing??
<ScottK> You should probably talk to pitti when he's around.
<ScottK> He can usually be found on #ubuntu-devel.
<OwaisL> Thanks ScottK, actually I looked for him but he was not around :) Anyways, need to sleep. Good Night all!
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-11
<dholbach> good morning
<philipballew> morning dholbach how goes your morning?
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey philipballew, hey ajmitch
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<dholbach> just having my first coffee and listening to a mixtape I did last night :)
 * ajmitch just got home, but fine
<philipballew> Pretty swell dholbach , trying to attempt to do CS homework at 12 am, but the music in my headphones is winning. what type of music you make?
<dholbach> oh, good luck with your homework then!
<dholbach> I uploaded a few mixes to http://www.mixcloud.com/dholbach/ - but the one I did last night wasn't good enough it sounds :)
<philipballew> yeah! its trying to learn assembly language
<philipballew> this sounds good!
<dholbach> I'm into mixing Drum'n'Bass music, Dubstep, Breaks and other stuff, but generally I like almost all kinds of music
<philipballew> well, im off to go for a late night bike ride to meet up with people. ttyl!
<philipballew> ill set this as a favorite, and listen to it all soon
 * dholbach hugs philipballew
<dholbach> have a great rest of your day :)
 * philipballew embraces the warmth. 
<philipballew> take care dude!
 * ajmitch tries to decide what productive things to do this evening
<RAOF> ajmitch: Work on a Do bug!
<micahg> ajmitch: sponsor random stuff in the queue before final unseeded freeze?
<ajmitch> there's a bit in there at the moment?
<micahg> yep
<micahg> I'm trying to get seamonkey updated at the last minute again
<ajmitch> how long does that take to build these days?
<micahg> idk, I think an hour now?
<ajmitch> not nearly as bad as I thought
<geser> ajmitch: update to oneiric and file upgrade bugs
<micahg> should be comparable to thunderbird + 25%
<ajmitch> geser: already upgraded, checked that bugs were filed for things that I came across
<ajmitch> problem is, I didn't do things the normal way, but just with upgrading a few packages at a time with apt-get
 * Rhonda loves bugs that come in rather at the end of the development â¦
<Rhonda> Can someone please give me their opinion on Bug #694665 (see my comment), I'm uncertain what to do.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694665 in wesnoth-1.8 (Ubuntu) "Square blocks shown instead of translated strings in some areas (when language is set to marathi)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694665
<Zhenech> Rhonda, are there different fonts used in the two dialogs?
<Rhonda> Well, it would require a font to support that indic language, and a font renderer capable to render that script.
<Rhonda> The latter probably is the issue here which upstream doubts to be easy.  For the former, different fonts are already used, like for chinese.
<Zhenech> Rhonda, ah, ok
<Zhenech> Rhonda, I wonder why chinese etc render fine at that point
<Zhenech> but yes, disabling the font if it breaks the playflow is maybe better
<Rhonda> Because it's "just" a font.
<Rhonda> It doesn't require funny stuff with the script, like merging letters above, below, left and right and stuff.
<Zhenech> oh
<Rhonda> Font rendering is â¦ strange, especially in indian countries.
<Rhonda> "<Espreon> The policy is that all of course must first be translated before a new font gets shipped."
<lenios> i'm having some issues... pbuilder create works when building i386 base, but when i'm building amd64 base, it tries to get i386 Packages from my local mirror, and fails because it's an amd64 only mirror. any advice how to disable i386 when building amd64 base?
<lenios> here's my pbuilderrc if anyone's interested http://pastebin.com/u4GM2NPu
<tumbleweed> lenios: hrm, probably multiarch. We should make pbuilder-dist and mk-sbuild disable it...
<lenios> iirc, it was working a few days ago
<micahg> tumbleweed: maybe there should be an option to disable, but that shouldn't be the default
<lenios> pbuilder actually creates amd64 base.tgz, and then fails when trying to update it
<tumbleweed> micahg: I thought we wanted the architectures to be entirely self-hosted?
<micahg> tumbleweed: the default in oneiric is to have i386 and amd64 sources on amd64
<tumbleweed> micahg: I know, and I'm thinking that's not appropriate for package building
<micahg> why not?  wine does some crazy stuff..
<lenios> you don't need i386 binaries when building amd64 packages
<tumbleweed> hrm, that's probably true :)
<micahg> lenios: you could depending on the situation, the question is what are our buildds doing ATM
<tumbleweed> micahg: yeah, just checked. They have it enabled too
<lenios> so it's multiarch and there's no way to disable it?
<micahg> you can disable it, but it no longer guarantees that you can build everything in the archive
<lenios> i just want to create a base.tgz at the moment
<tumbleweed> to disable, make pbuilder delete /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/multiarch before creating the base.tgz (you'll have to change pbuilder)
<lenios> change pbuilder?
<tumbleweed> yip. Or just use a different mirror, and fix it up afterwards with pubilder login
<lenios> i have separate mirrors for i386 and amd64 with different url
<lenios> tried to add my i386 mirror, but it still tries to get i386 from my amd64 mirror
<micahg> lenios: use a URL rewrite on your amd64 mirror?
<micahg> I assume this is for local consumption only...
<tumbleweed> lenios: you can limit an apt sources line to a single archiceture with [arch=i386] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec#apt_sources
<lenios> tumbleweed, i tried but it didn't work
<lenios> well, it's working on my system, just can't get it to work with pbuilder
<tumbleweed> lenios: obviously that'll only work once you already hvae a pbuilder image that you created with another mirror
<Laney> goooooooooooooood morning
<Rhonda> Zhenech, all: got an upstream comment in Bug #694665 and now wonder if that would be possible to get into oneiric still. The gain is practically little because as can be seen on http://gettext.wesnoth.org/ the translation is very little.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 694665 in wesnoth-1.8 (Ubuntu) "Square blocks shown instead of translated strings in some areas (when language is set to marathi)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/694665
<tumbleweed> there's a bunch of stuff in the sponsor queue that could really use attention
<Laney> i will upload cairo-dock
<Laney> someone else can take guichan with the nasty diff
<Laney> muhahaha
<nigelb> heh, I didn't know Laney had an evil laugh :)
<Laney> i try!
<Laney> yeah good job i reviewed plug-ins
<Laney> borked mono build
<Zhenech> Rhonda, imho translation of <50% is worthless, but YMMV etc :)
<Rhonda> Zhenech: Me too, but I don't want to "disable" them hard because someone might still be interested. If it can't get displayed that's something different though â¦
<Rhonda> And if the <50% are 100% of the core po file (but no campaigns) it's still more than useful
<tumbleweed> Laney: I think the guichan change is reasonable, but I tested two rdepends in the archive and they seem fine. I'm happy to leave it for precice
<Laney> it seemed pretty bad
<Laney> get it in quickly before I change the topic
<Laney> I just didn't like all of the noise in the diff
<tumbleweed> Laney: uploaded
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Oneiric: Closed â get preparing SRUs! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<Laney> muhahaha
<Laney> (/me peeks at nigelb)
<nigelb> Laney: hehe
<dholbach> thanks Laney for the stats :)
<dholbach> I'll reuse them for my weekly dev update blog post :)
<Laney> heh heh
<Laney> I thought they were fun
<dholbach> yeah :)
<tumbleweed> if anyone else finds this handy... http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/specs-by-date/
<tumbleweed> nigelb: can you add something like ^ to summit?
<bbigras__> Since Tomboy is shipped by defaults, isn't bug 842278 a release blocker or something?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 842278 in tomboy (Ubuntu) "Cannot save online sync preferences in Tomboy on Ubuntu 11.10 beta 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842278
<broder> tumbleweed: +1
<broder> tumbleweed: think you can make it spit out an RSS feed? :)
<tumbleweed> broder: is atom not enough?
<broder> tumbleweed: oh! i...totally missed that it was there
<broder> awesome
<tumbleweed> heh, added it during a LUG talk this evening
<tumbleweed> doesn't have the synopsis, though, that would require adding launchpadlib queries
<broder> or screen scraping :)
<tumbleweed> I think one can get that out of lp api these days. Just notthing sprint related. That comes from a magic xml file, that exists for summit
<pmjdebruijn> micahg: I used quickproxy as an example, worked just great for me
<pmjdebruijn> though I'm wondering how it to active something by default for all users on for example a live cd
<micahg> pmjdebruijn: sorry, I don't remember the question
<pmjdebruijn> micahg: packaging xpi files, you replied with mozilla-devscripts :D
<Laney> tumbleweed: broder will you be in orlando?
<micahg> pmjdebruijn: ah, ok, for a live env, you would need to have the package installed in the live fs
<broder> Laney: yep
<broder> hoping to have more time this cycle to work on ubuntu stuff. work has been super busy for the last 6 months
<Laney> fun fun fun
<pmjdebruijn> micahg: yeah that's trivial, the plugin just pops up, it's not enabled by default
<Laney> maybe I'll get more than 10 minutes walk from the hotel this time ...
<Quintasan> Hmm, GCONF_DISABLE_MAKEFILE_SCHEMA_INSTALL=1 INSTALL_ROOT=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp make  $(PARALLEL_MAKEFLAGS) install <-- any ideas how to do the same thing with dh7 override? GCONF_DISABLE_MAKEFILE_SCHEMA_INSTALL=1 $(overridden_command) doesn't work
<broder> heh, yeah, that'd be nice too :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: yeah, although I probably don't have the time
<Laney> hah, know that feeling
<ScottK> tumbleweed: You uploaded guichan and fwts to -release.  I think it's a bit late for that.  I'll reject so you can re-upload to proposed.
<Laney> it wasn't late at the time
<micahg> right, was discussed here and on -release
<ScottK> OK.  I wasn't around.
<ScottK> Did someone say to accept them?
<Laney> pitti was aware of it
<Laney> don't know what he planned to do
<ScottK> Laney: If you say I should accept them for you now, I will.
<Laney> I think they should be, yes.
<Laney> if the builders are free and such
<ScottK> They aren't.
<Laney> ppc looks like it might be a problem, but maybe scoring will help
<ScottK> I'll accept them and you find someone to do the rescores.
<ScottK> Done.
<Laney> thanks
<tumbleweed> ScottK, Laney: thanks
<achiang> micahg: ping, do you know what distroseries these packages are built for? http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/universe/c/chromium-browser/
<achiang> micahg: ones that are labeled 10.04, 10.10 are obvious
<achiang> micahg: but what about chromium-browser_13.0.782.215~r97094-0ubuntu2_armel.deb e.g.?
<micahg> achiang: rmadison chromium-browser should tell you now
<micahg> achiang: I'll get chromium in oneiric fixed up, then try to get it finally SRUd, but might not happen until close to UDS
<achiang> micahg: ok, thanks
<achiang> micahg: thanks for the pointer to rmadison, hadn't heard of that tool before
<micahg> achiang: yes, I think cjwatson got that working recently with ports
<achiang> i love how the ethos of, "you're not the first one to have this problem" and usually someone smarter than me has already fixed the issue. :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: yes, please file a bug so we can get it done?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-12
<GTRsdk> I'd like to help
<micahg> oops, a better gnash snapshot was uploaded 10 days ago :(, I guess it's SRU time for it
<dholbach> good morning
<pmjdebruijn> mornin
<ajmitch> morning
<micahg> good evening ajmitch
<ajmitch> so everything's ready for release now? :)
<micahg> Debian RC bug list is huge :(
<ajmitch> yeah, I didn't even take much of a look at it lately, I guess there could be plenty of chances for SRUs
<micahg> there are probably for the previous releases as well :)
 * ajmitch has to check the version tracking on that rc bugs list, first one I like at, the ubuntu version is below the found version for the debian bug
<ajmitch> given how hacky it is, the bug list might be cut down a bit just by fixing that :)
<Angelo> Hi!! :-)
<Angelo> I'd like to start working with the motu team
<Angelo> what could I do?
<nigelb> At this very moment, there's very little to because its release day tomorrow.
<nigelb> But there's a lot of stuff you could do
<nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing is a good page
<Angelo> :-) Thank you nigelb :-)
<Angelo> ok
<Angelo> I looked at that
<Angelo> and I have a problem with pbuilder
<nigelb> Are you getting an erro fo some sort?
<Angelo> yes
<Angelo> this is the error: sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd
<Angelo> sorry
<Angelo> this: "Someone else has lock over /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz.tmp, waiting"
<Angelo> and its loop
<Angelo> (sorry for my english, im italian)
<nigelb> I'm not an exxpert, maybe if you wait, someone will be able to help you
 * nigelb pokes Laney, meanwhile
<Angelo> ok
<Angelo> thank you  nigelb
<nigelb> np :)
<Angelo> :-)
<Angelo> someone could help me?
<Laney> bah
<ajmitch> Laney: problem?
<Laney> he left
<ajmitch> ah, the usual
 * ajmitch has a different pbuilder problem with sid, is most annoying :)
<ajmitch> right, done enough paid work for the evening, time to sleep
<Angelo> Ciao
<Angelo> Hi!! :-)
<tumbleweed> Angelo: it helps if you stay here. Someone tried to reply to you, but you'd gone. I suggest leaving an irc client open, or using something like irccloud
<tumbleweed> Angelo: what's in your pbuilderrc ?
<Angelo> tumbleweed: ah... ok. Thank you
<Angelo> when I create the pbuilder there's a message that tells that someone else is locking the file
<tumbleweed> yes, you said. What's in your .pbuilderrc ?
<tumbleweed> I'm assuming you haven't set it up for multiple distros?
<tumbleweed> you can probably just delete /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz*
<Angelo> ah, sorry...ok
<tumbleweed> but before you create a new one, you may want to set it up, following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Angelo> this line: COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<tumbleweed> (or just use pbuilder-dist)
<Angelo> no I didnt delete /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz
<tumbleweed> it's safe to
<Angelo> I followed that guide, but the error (sorry if I didnt tell u before) was about base.tgz.temp file
<tumbleweed> I was suggesting setting it up for multiple releases now, because otherwise you'll be creating new base images anyway, when you get there
<tumbleweed> Angelo: just try deleting that file
<Angelo> tumbleweed: ok. So I should delete only base.tgz.temp?
<tumbleweed> yes
<tumbleweed> (I'm just guessing, but it can't hurt to delete it)
<Angelo> and start again with pbuilder create?
<Angelo> ok! :-))
<Angelo> It's what I thought, but I didnt know it
<Angelo> thank u!!
<Angelo> :-)
<Angelo> tumbleweed: and u speak italian right? :-))
<tumbleweed> Angelo: very poorly, I'm afraid
<Angelo> tumbleweed: ahaha...ok
<Angelo> tumbleweed: I just saw your real name
 * tumbleweed lies in ZA, never spent enough time in italy to pick up the language, but I can get around...
<Angelo> tumbleweed: so i'm deleting it
<Angelo> tumbleweed: I couldnt delete it
<Angelo> tumbleweed: access denied
<tumbleweed> sudo rm :)
<Angelo> tumbleweed: DONE! :-)) I didnt remember that. Im new with ubuntu :-)
<Angelo> tumbleweed: thank u :-)
<tumbleweed> np
<Angelo> tumbleweed: now is creating the file
<Angelo> tumbleweed: before I read what u write..... but I have a problem at home (maybe I will explain) and I disconnect for that reason
<Angelo> tumbleweed: what are u doing in ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> easy answer: my wiki page is mostly up to date https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StefanoRivera
<Angelo> tumbleweed: ok!
 * jussi waves to tumbleweed and offers more salmiakki liquer :D
 * tumbleweed guesses he'd better bring some amarula to UDS then
<jussi> tumbleweed: unfortunately I wont be there...
<tumbleweed> so it goes :/
<jussi> tumbleweed: I have a good reason though :D
<pdtpatrick> tumbleweed.. how does one get involved as you did? I'm also trying to get into python related
<pdtpatrick> packages
<tumbleweed> pdtpatrick: you just start, and ask for help
<tumbleweed> find something that's bugging you, and fix it
<pdtpatrick> "bugging me" :)
<pdtpatrick> going to have to recreate my environment and keys .. upload and get started
<tumbleweed> if you just want to help out generally, each phase of the release has different areas that need attention
<tumbleweed> right now, it's probably a good idea to look for release critical bugs that were fixed in debian, but we missed the fixes for: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
<tumbleweed> if any of those are serious enough, we can put out -updates fixes (SRUs) for them
<pdtpatrick> well i'm currently a sysAdmin myself and do most things python/bash/django but wanted to help out and at the same time gain more experience with python along the way.
<tumbleweed> lots of ubuntu's infrastructure is written in python, many of the recent websites are django, so there are a few areas you could help out in
<pdtpatrick> Okay .. going to read the getting started page and then proceed from there. Will ask questions here if i get lost somewhere
<tumbleweed> please do
<Angelo> tumbleweed: I read your page and launchpad too :-). Thank u
 * tumbleweed heads off out to dinner
 * Laney wibbles
<Angelo> tumbleweed: Hi! :-)
<cdunlap> Hello
<cdunlap> I noticed that there are a number of packages that fail to build on armel.
<cdunlap> and this might be a newbie question but can you build armel packages on a i386 arch?  Is there a way to do it?
<Angelo> I go for dinner
<jtaylor> cdunlap: pbuilder-dist dist armel create
<cdunlap> jtaylor:  Thank You.  I appreciate the information
<c_korn> where is the "get-build-deps" command in oneiric?
<Laney> gone
<Laney> sudo mk-build-deps -i -r
<c_korn> thanks, Laney
<murrayc> I'm trying to hack a package together, but I'm getting this error:
<murrayc> dpkg-shlibdeps:
<murrayc> I mean, dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libgda-5.0.so.4
<murrayc> But that library is built by the package itself.
<murrayc> $ find . -name "libgda-5.0.so.4"
<murrayc> ./debian/tmp/usr/lib/libgda-5.0.so.4
<murrayc> ./libgda/.libs/libgda-5.0.so.4
<murrayc> Presumably I have a typo somewhere, but I can't figure it out.
<azeem> murrayc: did you check the SONAME with objdump?
<azeem> also, is this more than one binary package, and if so, where is the binary that dpkg-shlibdeps complains about?
<murrayc> azeem: How would I use objdump to do that?
<murrayc> azeem: Well, here is the full error:
<murrayc> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libgda-5.0.so.4 needed by debian/libgda-5.0-bin/usr/bin/gda-list-config-5.0 (ELF format: 'elf32-i386'; RPATH: '')
<azeem> objdump -x ./debian/tmp/usr/lib/libgda-5.0.so.4 | grep SONAME
<azeem> murrayc: probably debian/tmp isn't installed into any package, so it skips it
<azeem> isn't there a debian/libgda-5.0/usr/lib/libgda-5.0.so.4  as well?
<murrayc> azeem: SONAME               libgda-5.0.so.4
<azeem> ok
<murrayc> azeem: No
<murrayc> I guess there should indeed be.
<azeem> murrayc: is libgda-5.0.so.4 getting shipped in any binary package then?
<azeem> if not, that'd be enough reason for the error
<murrayc> Yes, it should be.
<azeem> ok
<murrayc>  more debian/libgda-5.0.install
<murrayc> usr/lib/libgda*.so.*
<murrayc> usr/lib/libgda*/providers/libgda-sqlite.so
<murrayc> usr/lib/libgda*/providers/libgda-web.so
<murrayc> Which I guess should take care of that.
<azeem> yeah
<murrayc> I am just hacking the libgda-4.0 package to be a libgda-5.0 package.
<azeem> murrayc: the library package is libgda-4.0-4 at least on Debian
<azeem> so it should likely be libgda-5.0-4 as well
<azeem> murrayc: check that debian/control actually references  libgda-5.0
<azeem> (as a binary package)
<murrayc> Actually, there were some -1 mentions. I've removed them and I'll try again.
<murrayc> I assumed that I could just remove the -4.
<azeem> regular library packages encode the sonmae
<azeem> soname*
<azeem> so libgda-5.0-4 would be correct
<murrayc> OK. Thanks.
<azeem> it's unclear what the 5.0 is good for if binary compat hasn't changed but oh well
<murrayc> I'll try to add that back then.
<murrayc> azeem: Maybe upstream just forgot to reset the shared libary version.
<jtaylor> the library name has changed
<murrayc> It's meant to be totallly parallel installable.
<jtaylor> so you can restart the soversion
<azeem> murrayc: that's what the 5.0 vs. 4.0 is good for I guess
<azeem> just make sure the package name in debian/control and the debian/<package>.* files match
<jtaylor> for library only packages so soversion alone is enough
<murrayc> azeem: Thanks. Trying again after fixing that. I had no idea, as usual.
<azeem> cheers
<murrayc> azeem: control is generated from control.in, and the -1 is only in the control.
<murrayc> azeem: So where does that -1 come from?
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> can you pastebin control.in?
<murrayc> azeem: In a moment, after I've checked something.
<azeem> np, I'm looking at the old source package
<azeem> should be enough
<azeem> murrayc: debian/rules has "SONAME := 4" in the old package, did you change that?
<azeem> debian/control should get generated from control.in by replacing @SONAME@ with $SONAME, i.e. 4
<murrayc> azeem: Yes, I must have.
<murrayc> To 1
<azeem> I think it's best to change that back
<murrayc> OK
<murrayc> Trying again. It takes a while.
<Laney> 4.0 is the API version?
<murrayc> 5.0
<murrayc> Of course I'd rather that the experts packaged all the Glom dependencies, but in the meantime I'm trying to hack some packages together for the PPA.
<Laney> so they broke API again?
<azeem> 5.0 should be the upstream version, SOVERSION is 4 AFAICT
<azeem> i.e. the number a fter the .so
<murrayc> Yes. 5.0 has been going for about a year now. Should hit stable in a few weeks.
<Laney> so it should be libgda-5.0-5?
<azeem> 20:32 < murrayc> ./libgda/.libs/libgda-5.0.so.4
<Laney> API = 5.0, major component of SONAME = 5
<azeem> but maybe they'll switch before release?
<murrayc> It doesn't have so many users so the break is not generally that annoying. It's just awkward to get the new packages into the distros.
<Laney> so SONAME in rules should be 5 and you should rename any libgda-4.0 or libgda4 to be 5.0 or 5
<murrayc> azeem: They can't reduce it because there were unstable tarball releases.
<Laney> in control.in and all files in debian/, and all paths therein
<azeem> right
<murrayc> Why should it have any relation to libgda-4.0 whatsoever? Why 5?
<murrayc> azeem: It builds!
<murrayc> azeem: Obvious stuff to you, I guess.
<azeem> yay
<Laney> erm, because they bumped the API version to 5.0?
<Laney> and 5 is the SONAME
<azeem> 20:36 < murrayc> azeem: SONAME               libgda-5.0.so.4
<Laney> oh ok
<azeem> 20:57 < azeem> but maybe they'll switch before release?
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> carry on
<murrayc> Laney: Thanks anyway
<Angelo> hello!
<Angelo> I have a problem with dget, someone would help me?
<tumbleweed> Angelo: no need to ask to ask a question, just ask it - state the problem
<Angelo> ahah.. ok
<Angelo> This is the error that I have had running dget: turpial_1.5.0~rc1-1~natty1.dsc: dscverify: turpial_1.5.0~rc1-1~natty1.dsc failed signature check: gpg: non sono stati trovati dati OpenPGP validi. gpg: processing message failed: eof Validation FAILED!!
<tumbleweed> you don't have the key of the developer who uploaded that package. That's normal, we don't provide a keyring of all the developers public keys
<micahg> quite impossible in ubuntu as a different key could be used for each upload and discarded
<Angelo> (the part in italian means that the system didnt found valid OpenPGP data)
<tumbleweed> you can get the key yourself, and verify that you trust it, or download the soruce with apt-get source / pull-lp-source
<Angelo> ah, ok....
<tumbleweed> (or just trust that it wasn't tampered with, that's the easy answer)
<Angelo> so what should i do to use dget? I never used a key for that
<Angelo> I registered 2 keys on launchpad
<Angelo> but never used
<tumbleweed> dget is verifying the signature on the source package that you are downloading. It was signed by the person who uploaded it
<ajmitch> if you don't care about validating every signature, use the -u option to dget
<Angelo> ah ok..... thank you!
<ScottK> And then there are the packages on LP that don't have a signature at all.
<Angelo> and do u use verifying the signature usually? (sorry for my english :-) )
<Angelo> Now I go
<Angelo> see u tomorrow!
<Angelo> tumbleweed: thank you for your help
<Angelo> micahg: thank u too
<Angelo> ajmitch: I used the option and it seems it worked. thanks
<Angelo> bye!!
<Angelo> :-)
<highvoltage> hey how are things going?
<ajmitch> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> howdy ajmitch
<shayonj> once you have submitted the package to REVU, does the package still needs to be marked as "In progress" ?
<tumbleweed> hi highvoltage
<tumbleweed> shayonj: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<shayonj> tumbleweed, ah, missed the page.thanks :)
<tumbleweed> shayonj: we strongly recommend getting new packages into Debian if possible, and letting them flow into Ubuntu that way
<shayonj> tumbleweed, oh i see. So is it fine if i upload to Debian after i did to REVU ?
<shayonj> i mean from next time onwards i will take care of that, but what about the one i already did ?
<tumbleweed> shayonj: not many people look at REVU. You can probably get it into Debian before anyone has even commented on it on REVU
<shayonj> tumbleweed, sounds good. thanks :)
<Laney> but it can't hurt to put a comment saying what you've done
<tumbleweed> yes, that would probably be sensible :)
<shayonj> hah, definitely
<Laney> phew, i remembered to update
<Laney> in before release rush
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-13
<alkisg> Hi, I'm developing an app called epoptes, where the epoptes-client part gets installed in clients, and on postinst it autodetects with avahi (or if not, it presends a debconf dialog) a public crypto key and the DNS name or IP of the server where the epoptes-server runs. It then saves that DNS name and uses it when the epoptes-client service starts on boot.
<alkisg> My question is, where should the key+DNS name be saved? In /etc or in /var? And if I store it in /etc/default/epoptes, should that be a conffile, even if postinst will modify its contents?
<RAOF> alkisg: I'd probably lean towards /etc, particularly since this seems like it's meant to be end-user-editable.  Which would mean it probably *should* be a conf-file, because you don't want it overwritten on updates.
<alkisg> Thank you RAOF. My next question is, I'd like to minimize the cases where the debconf dialog is displayed. When the client service runs, it connects to the server and offers it a remote shell so that a sysadmin on the server can manage all the clients (execute commands etc) through a GUI. So it's somewhat security-sensitive.
<alkisg> Would it be reasonable to assume that if only one such server is published on avahi at the time the client postinst runs, then this is the server from which the sysadmin will be controlling the clients, and not present a debconf confirmation/entry dialog in this case?
<RAOF> I guess this depends on where you expect this to be deployed.
<alkisg> School computer labs, mostly
<alkisg> Where the teacher will be monitoring clients, executing commands on them tem
<alkisg> *ec
<alkisg> *etc, damn :)
<RAOF> If this is intended to land in the main archive, then that seems insecure, as there are any number of systems that won't be on trusted networks.
<alkisg> I'd like it to be included in universe, but no, not in main
<RAOF> I don't think I'd automatically have it trust a machine it discovers via avahi.
<alkisg> Ah, but I could use preseeding in order to automate installations, right?
<alkisg> So if the sysadmin put the server name with preseeding, then I'd trust that avahi-published server with the same dns name...
<alkisg> Does preseeding sound reasonable?
<alkisg> Also, if the dns name goes in /etc and it's a conffile that was changed in postinst, that will prompt the user on upgrades. I think there's a configuration mechanism that somehow marks that file so that no prompt appears if the user didn't manually edit the file, how's that mechanism called? UCF?
<RAOF> Yeah, preseeding would be reasonable.  And, now that I think of it, as long as your postinst respects any existing file, it doesn't need to be marked as a conffile.
<alkisg> Thank you very much :)
<Angelo> hello
<dholbach> good morning
<Angelo> dholbach: hi!
<Angelo> :-)
<handschuh> hi, what I am just wondering. is it allowed to include python "binary" code into source packages while java-bytecode is not allowed there?
<Rhonda> Both is allowed along the same rules: If they get regenerated when producing the binary package and don't get installed directly into the binary package, they are accepted in the source package.
<Rhonda> Under the assumption that those binaries are actually produced from the same set of source. But to assure that, the binary package is only allowed to contain binaries that are produced during the build process.
<handschuh> What for example for binaries that are only needed for the build process and not for the actual package itself?
<geser> handschuh: what you mean with "python binary code"?
<handschuh> geser: for instance the waf "binary"
<Rhonda> handschuh: binaries needed for the build process do require source-full rebuild too.
<Rhonda> handschuh: Whether they end in the actual binary package or produce those binary packages isn't the difference here.
<Rhonda> Included binaries in source packages are not allowed to be used in any sense, they need to be reproduced before from source.
<handschuh> Rhonda: thats good to know, thank you. What if I find such a package in the universe repos?
<Rhonda> The only exception here is obviously multiverse for which no source is required to be available. ;)
<Rhonda> Then file a serious bugreport against them.
<geser> handschuh: file a bug and let us know here
<Rhonda> Because of policy violation.
<handschuh> ok, I already did that with the bug report
<tumbleweed> handschuh: can you tell us the bug number?
<handschuh> 873003
<Rhonda> bug #873003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873003 in postler (Ubuntu) "waf binary in sourcecode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873003
<tumbleweed> aah, waf
<handschuh> yes waf
<tumbleweed> waf is a special case of horribleness
<handschuh> indeed!
<handschuh> maybe the same holds for the midori package
<handschuh> but I did NOT check that
<Rhonda> It might be a horribleness, but that doesn't warrant an exception for main/universe
<tumbleweed> well, waf can't be broken out into a separate package, it has to be bundled with every source package that needs it
<handschuh> yes thats the tricky part
<Rhonda> Then the sourcecode has to be bundled with the source package, too
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: naturally :)
<Rhonda> sourcecode of waf, that is
 * tumbleweed thought waf was python, though
<Rhonda> Or, would a waf-source "binary" package be able to work around for that?
<tumbleweed> no, the problem is that waf doesn't provide a stable API to packages that use it
<handschuh> it has been removed from lucid on
<Rhonda> That bugreport should potentially be forwarded to Debian.
<handschuh> I think there is no debian package of polster
<Rhonda> Though: Maintainer: Devid Antonio Filoni <d.filoni@ubuntu.com>
<Rhonda> handschuh: Well, there is.
<Rhonda> You think wrong. :)  http://packages.debian.org/postler
<handschuh> Rhonda: indeed, I missed that
<Rhonda> and, the included waf isn't a binary file?
 * Rhonda did a quick apt-get source postler
<Rhonda> handschuh: which is the "binary" file there?
<handschuh> "waf"
<Rhonda> waf: a python script text executable
<DktrKranz> oh, waf again? plese, no!
<handschuh> look at the last lines
<Rhonda> handschuh: Not a binary in the source package I look at over here?
<Rhonda> oh
<handschuh> yes, nasty
<Rhonda> line 161 that is, right
<Rhonda> wtf does it do that?
<handschuh> thats the actual waf script
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ubuntu-distro-info is currently broken in Debian testing
<handschuh> IMHO
<DktrKranz> there was a waf package (with me being one of the co-maintainers), upstream "kindly" asked us to refrain from package it, and let waf "binary" to be distributed with several programs
<Rhonda> handschuh: I'm filing the bugreport now.
<handschuh> Rhonda: thanks a lot!
<Laney> DktrKranz even sponsored postler ;-)
<DktrKranz> yeah
<tumbleweed> bdrung: aah, no it's just confused by precise not being open yet
<DktrKranz> FYI, here's a summary about waf: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/msg00714.html
<handschuh> Rhonda: same thing with midori (since the authors are partially the same)
<handschuh> DktrKranz: yes, I read that and thats what caught my attention (also a python script that has 160 lines an 90kb of size)
<Rhonda> handschuh: checking
<Rhonda> Do you have an LP bug number? Or not filed?
<handschuh> Rhonda: not filed since I checked that just now
<Rhonda> hmm, that's a different maintainer
<Laney> is there any place to search the contents of source packages?
<Rhonda> DktrKranz: You didn't mention in that blaaaahhhhh
<Rhonda> corsac!!
 * Laney thinks a lintian error for waf would be worthwhile
<handschuh> Laney: yes that would be very helpful to avoid waf
<Rhonda> at least that was done post-squeeze.
<Laney> yeah?
<DktrKranz> well, to be honest, waf has source code
<DktrKranz> there's an option to unpack it into wafadmin directory
<Rhonda> not in midori anymore, not since 0.3.0-1.1
<DktrKranz> obviously, it isn't the preferred form of modification
<handschuh> Rhonda: it is in 0.4.0
<DktrKranz> the win-win solution is to get rid of waf for good
<DktrKranz> IIRC, there are ~10 packages using it, with midori being the more publicized one
<Rhonda> handschuh: what is in 0.4.0?
<handschuh> Rhonda: waf
<Rhonda> I know.
<Rhonda> But the source was removed in 0.3.0-1.1, that's what I meant.
<handschuh> ah, ok I see
<handschuh> it should not be to hard to get rid of waf in those two packages as I was able to compile them with a 10 line makefile
<handschuh> s/them/postler
<handschuh> Rhonda: thank you for the fast reaction on that issue!
<Laney> doesn't look like the maintainer responds to bugs though
<Rhonda> Doesn't matter as long as the release team removes the package. :)
<Rhonda> huhm
<Rhonda> handschuh: Just reading the mail from DktrKranz, the line 161 seems to be an embedded .tar.bz2 file.
<DktrKranz> it is
<DktrKranz> and gets unpcked in $PWD/.waf-*/wafadmin
<Rhonda> hmm, so the bugreports might be invalid then?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what's the output of ubuntu-distro-info on testing?
<handschuh> Rhonda: yes that is correct but in general, this could contain anything. One never knows until one extracts the file and unpacks it
<DktrKranz> AFAIK, embedded waf sources are all DFSG-free (while waf source tarball distributed upstream isn't). Sources are in place when launching waf, the correct way to invoke them would be launching waf-light once unpacked, or write something that does just that
<Rhonda> handschuh: Well, you don't know what's in a source package until you unpack it neither.
<Rhonda> There are packages that contain multiple upstream tarballs in a single source package.
<DktrKranz> but I guess is an overkill for a 10 package work...
<Rhonda> hmm, how do I enter a \r in vim?  \n is ^M
<handschuh> Rhonda: indeed. so it is invalid, or not?
<Rhonda> handschuh: I fail to find the proper way to unpack and repack that included binary because it contains a substitution of \r for #% and \n for #*
<Rhonda> And thus can't be directly saved. Missing the tools to un- and repack the included tarball this still is valid (to me)
<handschuh> Rhonda: good. to me it is also still valid since accepting this would mean that one can pack the sources in a non standard-way (for instance base64 then some xor with a value that is in the unpack-script) which might be theoretically ok but it at least very ugly in my opinion.
<murrayc> Do I need to do anything for a "dependency-wait" build status?
<geser> check which dependency is missing and why
<geser> if it's only because the other dep is still building then wait and recheck later
<geser> the "dependency-wait" build gets retried automatically but you don't get a notify if is still in depwait for an other reason
<murrayc> geser: It's just a regular oneirc package. https://launchpad.net/~openismus-team/+archive/ppa/+build/2840723
<geser> murrayc: typo in your Build-Depends line: it's libgtksourceview-3.0-dev (note the - before the 3.0)
<murrayc> geser: Ah. Thanks. I have looked at that so many times looking for a typo, but didn't see it.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: it doesn't have precise yet, so http://paste.ubuntu.com/707395/
<tumbleweed> we should have waited for it to migrate before doing more stuff
<tumbleweed> bdrung: we also need a u-d-t upload soonish, to update the dependencies
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we should wait for getting 0.3 migrated
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the u-d-t upload does not hurry
<tumbleweed> I'll ask for a speedy migration
<tumbleweed> bdrung: we'll have to SRU it in natty too. Which means clearing the existing SRU
<bdrung> tumbleweed: or we need to get the SRU migrated to updates in then get it in
<tumbleweed> indeed, that is preferable. I was going to ask for volunteers in #ubuntu-testing (if they aren't all exhausted)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/178c8b32/
<bdrung> tumbleweed: feel free to propose something that a user can change
<jtaylor> what do I do with this: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/natty/pycryptopp/sru-811721/+merge/79330
<jtaylor> I can only set the status ti WIP needs review or merged
<jtaylor> no deny
<jtaylor> set it to merged?
<jtaylor> or delete it?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: members of ubuntu-branches can set other statuses, just ask (normally in -devel)
<tumbleweed> a slight confuion there is that it'll actually be merged into -proposed
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-14
<lfaraone> ?
<Angelo> Hi!
<Angelo> :-)
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<Angelo> Hi!
<Angelo> Could I help with packaging on motu team for the new version?
<Rhonda> so p will be precise?
<Rhonda> potential perfect pick :P
<ogra_> precisely :)
<Angelo> i go... bye!
 * Rhonda . o O ( sudo cowbuilder --create --distribution precise )
<Rhonda> hmmmm
<geser> ?
<Rhonda> Only i386 and amd64 are the official architectures, armel and powerpc are different status?
<geser> yes, they are on ports.u.c not on archive.u.c
<Rhonda> Ah. And someone was asking me to get ports.u.c into packages.u.c, right.
<Rhonda> Thanks for refreshing my memory. :)
<verwilst> hm, netbeans has been removed from oneiric
<verwilst> painful
 * verwilst tries a backport from debian sid for 7.0.1 for my ppa
<bdrung> tumbleweed: http://paste.debian.net/136464/
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks, I'll look a bit later
 * Laney mk-sbuild precise
<Rhonda> duh
<Rhonda> forgot to merge the changes for packages.ubuntu.com into the config.sh file  %-/
<Laney> heh
<Rhonda> not funny
<highvoltage> this is quite funny though: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820816002&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-20-816-002-_-Product
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-15
<evaluate> Hello.
<evaluate> If a new release of a program is made, that only includes bugfixes, does it have any chance of making it in for oneiric?
<alkisg> I have a package which installs a program that runs on user logon. So when a user installs the package, he needs to logoff/logon for my invisible (no gui) user-session-based "service" to run from /etc/xdg/autostart.
<alkisg> Does the packaging policy allow me to run it from postinst as the SUDO_USER, if I detect that that env var exists, and X is running?
<tumbleweed> alkisg: I don't think that would be desireable
<alkisg> Thank you tumbleweed, I'll put a note for the users to the docs that they need manually start it or logoff+logon
<bdrung> tumbleweed: housten, we've had a problem: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/82843129/buildlog.txt.gz
<nigelb> *Houston ;)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, noticed that
<bdrung> tumbleweed: the typo or the build failure? ;)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: the build failure, hadn't got as far as the typo
<bdrung> tumbleweed: any idea how to solve this build failure?
<tumbleweed> not immediately obvious, and I can't look right now
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ah, that was easy. The new binary packages are in NEW
<bdrung> :)
<ari-tczew> wgrant: could you upgrade this page http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/multidistrotools/all.html to precise?
<CarlFK> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=default&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=sphinx2-bin
<CarlFK> sphinx2-bin isn't in Oneiric. what' the process for getting it in?  (I am assuming I can port the natty version forward)
<tumbleweed> CarlFK: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sphinx2/+publishinghistory
<CarlFK> tumbleweed: thanks.  how do I find out why Status=deleted ?
<tumbleweed> click on the arrow and you can see :)
<CarlFK> low popcon ?
<CarlFK> any idea where I can see Debian bug #624817 (no the lp bug that it links to)
<ubottu> Debian bug 624817 in ftp.debian.org "RM: sphinx2 -- RoQA; orphaned, low popcon, outdated" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/624817
<CarlFK> thank you happy robot
<tumbleweed> thanks ubottu
<CarlFK> grumble.  but thanks.
<tumbleweed> CarlFK: you can take over maintainance of it in debian
<CarlFK> joy
<c_korn> hello, the compilation of pragha fails because of "libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libcurl.la' or unhandled argument `/usr/lib/libcurl.la'" as I see it is in the /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ directory on oneiric. how can I fix this?
<sladen> c_korn: could you file it in the bug tracker so that it doesn't get lost?
<c_korn> uhm, of course. against which package?
<c_korn> so the problem is on the Ubuntu side?
<sladen> c_korn: but most likely you're probably missing   sudo apt-get install libcurl-dev
<sladen> c_korn: there isn't enough information to tell you what/where/how/who the issue is
<sladen> c_korn: I don't even eg. know what software you're trying to compile
<c_korn> I have libcurl4-openssl-dev installed
<tumbleweed> err, no it sounds like it's bearking because curl was multiarched
<c_korn> the music player "pragha" http://code.google.com/p/dissonance/
<c_korn> (pragha is not in the Ubuntu repositories)
<tumbleweed> c_korn: it may be being directed to libcurl.la by another .la file, see if you can see where that came from
<c_korn> uff, should I look for some symbolic link now?
<tumbleweed> no, other la files probably
<c_korn> find /usr/lib -name *.la ?
 * tumbleweed tries to build it
<jtaylor> it should not need to know the path at all
<c_korn> those are my build depends http://pastebin.com/MP5WAdLS
<c_korn> I built the libclastfm0-dev library before. but it should be optional.
<jtaylor> autsch
<jtaylor> it uses LDFLAGS for libraries
<jtaylor> that will bite you with as-needed
<tumbleweed> erm c_korn, it built for me (make all)
<tumbleweed> (i was building 0.99)
<c_korn> hum, maybe it is related to my libclastfm library then
<tumbleweed> also, I was on amd64
<tumbleweed> yeah it might only need curl for lastfm
<c_korn> hm, yeah. it also compiles here without my libclastfm library
<c_korn> ok, I have rebuilt clastfm and now also pragha compiles with lastfm support. thanks.
<c_korn> well, I think this lintian error explains my problems. http://pastebin.com/DJAMXs7H
<tumbleweed> :)
<c_korn> hm, shouldn't gensymbols automatically been run with compat 8 ?
<tumbleweed> before that, even
<c_korn> hum, but I had to generate the symbols for myself
<tumbleweed> well, the initial symbols list has to be created by hand. After that it'll be verified at build time
<c_korn> ah, ok
<c_korn> so I delete one line and see what happens ;)
<tumbleweed> remember, it'll differ between architectures
<tumbleweed> (err, s/will/may/, e.g. if C++)
<c_korn> ok, works ;) dpkg-gensymbols: warning: some new symbols appeared in the symbols file: see diff output below
<c_korn> yeah, I already got into that situation once
<c_korn> luckily there is the lib.symbols.arch naming rule of the file.
<c_korn> what happened to xulrunner in oneiric?
<jtaylor> firefox-dev replaces at least parts of it I think
<chrisccoulson> we got rid of it
<chrisccoulson> firefox-dev exists purely to provide npapi headers. please don't build anything else against it
<c_korn> hum, but there is no xulrunner executable any longer?
<c_korn> there is the application http://getbuzzbird.com/bb/ which I started with "xulrunner ./application.ini". how should I do that now?
<chrisccoulson> c_korn, you can't. we don't support that anymore
<chrisccoulson> you could always grab the upstream xulrunner binary though
<c_korn> hum, ok
<jbicha> what's the easy/correct way to backport from precise to oneiric-proposed?
<tumbleweed> easiest is to just upload to oneiric-proposed, and copy-up to precise
<jbicha> ok, what if I already uploaded to precise? since the SRU page said bugs should be fixed in the current development release first
<tumbleweed> yeah that's not strictly necessary in the first week or so
<tumbleweed> I'd just do exactly the same upload, with an SRUish version, to oneiric-propesed
<arand> jbicha: There is a good wiki page on SRU:ing, you've read?
<jbicha> arand: yes, but I don't always read every word...
<jbicha> I'll need to do a -0ubuntu1.1 then?
<tumbleweed> jbicha: what package?
<jbicha> totem 3.0.1-0ubuntu8
<tumbleweed> jbicha: totem already has an upload in -proposed waiting for verification
<jbicha> tumbleweed: right, this upload improves the -proposed fix and fixes a second bug while I'm at it
<jbicha> basically, how do I fix this? and how do I do this correctly next time?
<tumbleweed> ok, I'd have said use 3.0.1-0ubuntu5.1 if 3.0.1-0ubuntu7 wasn't already there. Because of 3.0.1-0ubuntu7 you'll have to use 3.0.1-0ubuntu7.1 (which is a little misleading, in that it looks like the first SRU)
<tumbleweed> you just note on the bug that you're about to replace the proposed versoin with another one, so don't verify it yet
<jbicha> so 7.1 or 8.1 then?
<tumbleweed> jbicha: it needs to be lower than the version in later releases, so 7.1
<jbicha> I was thinking I'd just sync from precise but it looks like that doesn't really work the same way syncing from Debian does
<jbicha> ok, and how does copying up work?
<tumbleweed> jbicha: if oneiric and precise currently have the same versions, you can upload to -proposed, and ask for the upload to be copied to precise when it's accepted. (as if you'd uploaded it before precise opened) But this should only be done in the first week or so
#ubuntu-motu 2011-10-16
<wgrant> arand: Should be updated in an hour or so.
<wgrant> Bah.
<wgrant> ari-tczew, who is no longer here.
<arand> :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: played around with ubuntu_upload_history a little this evening: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
<tumbleweed> more universe uploads than I expected
<tumbleweed> would be interesting to compare canonical vs community uploads :P
<sladen> tumbleweed: indeedy
<MaximLevitsky> I notice that both avidemux and gddcontrol disappeared from ubuntu repos
<MaximLevitsky> launchpad does they that they are in 10.04
<MaximLevitsky> is there a problem with main server or what?
<wgrant> MaximLevitsky: Disappeared how?
<MaximLevitsky> I don't have it in apt cache
<MaximLevitsky> I updated it and that doesn't help
<wgrant> Ah, it was removed because it fails to build.
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/i386/avidemux
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/bugs/831096
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 831096 in avidemux (Ubuntu) "avidemux version 1:2.5.4-0ubuntu7 failed to build in oneiric" [High,Triaged]
<MaximLevitsky> I am sorry that I ask here, its not 100% ontopic
<MaximLevitsky> Apt-get doesn't let me install it
<MaximLevitsky> And I am quite sure I have everything right here
<MaximLevitsky> Maybe a problem with servers?
<wgrant> Right, it was removed because it no longer builds successfully.
<MaximLevitsky> And i guess gddccontrol too :-(
<MaximLevitsky> It has optional gnome-panel applet
<MaximLevitsky> Its really sad as I use it often
<MaximLevitsky> I know its not maintained
<wgrant> It was also removed, as it's a GNOME 2 panel applet.
<MaximLevitsky> nope, its not an applet
<MaximLevitsky> it has optional applet
<wgrant> "old gnome-panel 2 applet, unmaintained"
<MaximLevitsky> app itself is normal gnome2 app
<wgrant> Hm, let's see...
<MaximLevitsky> It controls lots of monitors
<MaximLevitsky> Sad that nobody maintains it
<MaximLevitsky> Maybe I should...
<wgrant> Looks like it could reasonably be revived if someone ports/removes the GNOME 2 dep from it.
<MaximLevitsky> I'll take a look
<MaximLevitsky> wgrant: and last question
<MaximLevitsky> what about KDE3 libraries?
<MaximLevitsky> I suspect they got removed too?
<wgrant> MaximLevitsky: I'm not sure about the KDE situation, sorry. But Qt3 is still around.
<MaximLevitsky> kdelibs4 got removed, that what I see
<MaximLevitsky> and I have app (kscope) also abadoned that I use very often
<MaximLevitsky> I compiled it from source
<MaximLevitsky> Sorry for trolling, but peoples say that windows breaks support for apps, and linux not... So much for that....
<sladen> MaximLevitsky: sorry, I can't quite follow.  What's the question?
<MaximLevitsky> ubuntu 10.04 removed some packages
<wgrant> 11.10, you mean?
<MaximLevitsky> including as I see kde3 libraries
<wgrant> kdelibs was last in 11.04.
<MaximLevitsky> but why?
<wgrant> (also, Windows has probably the best backward application compatibility of any operating system... I don't see many people saying otherwise)
<MaximLevitsky> wgrant: agree. sorry for trolling :-)
<MaximLevitsky> Anyway, please consider not removing support for legacy apps
<wgrant> Bug #794513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 794513 in kdewebdev-kde3 (Ubuntu) "Please remove kdelibs and kdewebdev-kde3 from the archive" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794513
<wgrant> IIRC we moved to KDE4 3 years ago now...
<MaximLevitsky> Agreed, but there are always apps that aren't ported
<wgrant> And upstream dropped support for all that *long* ago.
<MaximLevitsky> GTk1 I think is still included
<wgrant> There's only so much that it's practical for distributions to do, once upstream drops support.
<MaximLevitsky> or at least was for such long time
<wgrant> I believe libgtk1.2 was kept around mostly because there were proprietary applications that used it.
<wgrant> Applications that could not be ported.
<wgrant> Whereas, for KDE3 apps, it's more that nobody can be bothered to port them in the three years that they have been using deprecated libraries.
<MaximLevitsky> wgrant: but even if app is open source who has time to port it?
<MaximLevitsky> kscope was abadoned I know
<MaximLevitsky> but its only IDE with sane browsing support
<MaximLevitsky> I use it for all developing
<wgrant> If KDE upstream maintained the KDE3 libraries then we might have kept them around.
<MaximLevitsky> fair
<MaximLevitsky> But why there is need to maintain it?
<MaximLevitsky> the package from 10.04 does work just fine
<wgrant> Packages fail to build due to toolchain changes, or need security fixes, or whatever.
<sladen> MaximLevitsky: if an application is important, somebody will port or maintain it.  The problem comes when nobody maintains it (in which case it's not being used much)
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> For most FOSS applications it's not a problem, because someone will care enough to port it.
<wgrant> Apparently that's not the case for kscope.
<MaximLevitsky> There was attempt for Qt4 version, but it didn't work out
<alkisg> If I want a package of mine to be more compatible with Debian, I'd better use sysv init.d scripts and not upstart, right? Or should I have different packages for Debian/Ubuntu?
<sladen> alkisg: it sounds like you're not relying on any of the advanced features of upstart, in which case, just install sysV init.d scripts
<alkisg> My upstart jobs now starts on (filesystem and started networking), so will do, thank you :)
<sladen> alkisg: if you were /relying/ on upstart, then you'd be using functionality that would not be possible to replicate in init.d scripts (* without basically reimplementing upstart)
<Laney> tumbleweed: cool!
<Laney> maybe it could also show the freeze dates?
<tumbleweed> yeah, I was also thinking that
<Laney> i started to write the lplib importer
<Laney> but then i got bogged down parsing the changelog and urgh
<tumbleweed> you can steal the bug closing regex from lp
<Laney> i was just using vendor profiles to get launchpad-bugs-fixed
 * tumbleweed finishes making http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/oldmerges/ prettier and faster
<tumbleweed> ah yeah if you are parsing .changes files, you can do that
<tumbleweed> you'll miss bugs closed in lp by syncs, though
<Laney> dpkg-parsechangelog gives you it too
<tumbleweed> oh, I see
 * tumbleweed doesn't want to even think about how slow an initial import will be
<Laney> erk
<Laney> I didn't consider doing that
<alkisg> I'm getting "update-rc.d: warning: /etc/init.d/epoptes-client missing LSB information" when I install my package that contains this sysvinit script, any hints? http://paste.ubuntu.com/709472/
<alkisg> Hmm it seemed like a temporary error, I somehow had some dpkg-new entries in init.d/
<geser> micahg_: is bug #670659 still valid or is this fixed in the current FTBFS pages?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 670659 in FTBFS Report "Show FTBFS per packageset" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670659
<tumbleweed> geser: just busy working on incorporating my historical graph into the FTBFS page (at the end of the page, rather than on a separate page)
<tumbleweed> Laney: I added some milestones http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/
<Laney> nice
<geser> tumbleweed: I didn't had time yet to review your MP. Does it work with the multi-archive support of the script?
<tumbleweed> geser: haven't looked at all. Also, with the current state of the MP, it just spits out JSON, but doesn't generate the (previously static) html page that draws the graph
<tumbleweed> Laney: for oneiric, it looks suspiciously like it's including syncs before DIF. I tried to exclude that with WHERE signed_by != 'N/A'. That's about the best I can do, right?
<geser> tumbleweed: you could put the static files directly into the top-directory (I should probably move the css and the .js files there too and let the source link point to the LP project now that it exists)
<tumbleweed> my merge will update the source link
<tumbleweed> problem with the static pages as they stand is that we need to generate one per release
<tumbleweed> also, I don't think having that many graphs is useful. One, with the right configuration options, should suffice
<geser> could the graph be updated through JS to load the matching JSON data file?
<tumbleweed> well, right now you can add and remove series. I'll ad a dropdown to select architecture http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/qa-ftbfs/oneiric-historical.html instead of one graph per arch
<tumbleweed> it can all come from one json file
<jtaylor> that page does nto work with opera :(
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: any idea why?
<tumbleweed> geser: actually, I'll probably just dump the json into the generated html
<jtaylor> what happened on sep 1? :)
<tumbleweed> don't know
<tumbleweed> the logs didn't show anything unuual
<jtaylor> this is the error I'm getting with opera http://paste.ubuntu.com/709642/
<tumbleweed> thanks
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: fixed?
<jtaylor> yes thanks
<alkisg> So my problem (much) above seems to be that dh_installinit makes symlinks in init.d for upstart jobs, but it doesn't remove them before upgrading. So to migrate my app from upstart to sysvinit I had to put a preinst script and remove the symlinks manually :(
<geser> why do you migrate from upstart to sysvinit?
<alkisg> (09:05:02 ÏÎ¼) alkisg: If I want a package of mine to be more compatible with Debian, I'd better use sysv init.d scripts and not upstart, right? Or should I have different packages for Debian/Ubuntu?
<alkisg> Mainly for debian compatibility
<stgraber> alkisg: you can have both in your package. debian/<binary package name>.init is for sysvinit and debian/<binary package name>.upstart is for upstart
<stgraber> alkisg: that way you can provide both, you'll have sysvinit on Debian and Upstart on Ubuntu
<alkisg> stgraber: yes, but I can't have one package for both distros
<geser> if it's not to much work provide both a sysvinit and upstart file. If I'm not mistaken Debian's dh_installinit will install the sysvinit and Ubuntu's dh_installinit prefers the upstart file
<alkisg> (binary)
<stgraber> alkisg: indeed, but all the packages get rebuilt when syncing from Debian, so that's not a problem
<stgraber> alkisg: assuming you plan on actually uploading that package to Debian
<alkisg> Any downsides for providing only a sysvinit script?
<geser> so this is for an external repository?
<alkisg> Currently it's being built on launchpad and uploaded on a PPA
<stgraber> if that's for a PPA/external repository, I'd suggest building two separate packages. If that's for actual archive upload, then provide both in debian/ and let the Debian and Ubuntu builders do the needed magic
<alkisg> I want to try if the same .deb works on debian, so that I can minimize the things I need to do for each release (now I only click on a recipe)
<alkisg> stgraber: Ubuntu won't be running both script on boot, right? Only the upstart one...
<alkisg> (the sysvinit and the upstart one)
<stgraber> alkisg: if the sysvinit script is a symlink autogenerated by the builder, then it'll only start it once
<geser> alkisg: only one will get installed during package building by dh_installinit
<alkisg> Ah, so dh_installinit is clever and only takes the upstart one
<stgraber> alkisg: if your binary package contains both a valid (non-symlink) sysvinit script + and upstart job, then both will start
<alkisg> Gotcha
<alkisg> Thank you guys
<alkisg> stgraber: the main reason I include a sysvinit/upstart script anyway, is because ltsp clients don't receive an if-up event, so I'll remove it completely if/once we fix that part in ltsp...
<alkisg> So I only use that script to fake an if-up event
 * tumbleweed doesn't quite get the ARB poll. We are selecting 3 from 3?
<stgraber> alkisg: ah, yeah, not quite sure I want to fix that "bug" to be honest ;) as quite a lot of stuff can get triggered by the if-up event that we always handle another way
<stgraber> tumbleweed: yeah, that's a bit weird ;) it's basically some kind of confirmation vote but with no way of selecting "I don't want him" :)
<stgraber> anyway, got to run, flight is boarding!
<tumbleweed> stgraber: yeah, it either needs a NOTA or more applicants
<alkisg> stgraber: I think we only handle ntpdate, and it doesn't matter much if it gets called a second time. E.g: avahi-autoipd  avahi-daemon  ethtool  ntpdate  openssh-server  postfix  upstart  wireless  wpasupplicant
<alkisg> Let's think about it at BTS
<alkisg> It might even be better to remove our ntpdate handling
<alkisg> (as it's even ran synchronously now)
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> you get publication records when a new series is initialised from an old one
<tumbleweed> geser: done: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/lp-ftbfs-report/historical
<geser> looks great
<geser> will it do the right thing also when used on the archive rebuilds?
<tumbleweed> haven't tested that :P
<geser> does it list all package sets with a current count > 0 or also those which had in the past at least one FTBFS? (or even all available package sets?)
<tumbleweed> every time it runs, it records the packages with failed builds in a per-series-per-archive sqlite db
<tumbleweed> then it mines that db to produce aggregate failures per packageset per arch per day
<tumbleweed> yeah it just lists all package sets that appear in the data, so >0 failures
<geser> some cosmetic issues: can you configure the min step size and min value of the y-axis? try selecting only xubuntu or mythbuntu or utouch or netbook
<tumbleweed> right, I think we need to include 0s everywhere
<geser> I guess adding "yaxis: { min: 0; minTickSize: 1;}" would solve it
<tumbleweed> that still wouldn't be quite right
<geser> why?
<geser> there is nothing like -1 FTBFS or a fraction of a FTBFS (0.5 FTBFS)
<tumbleweed> the problem is that we are not displaynig data points where we know there were 0 failures
<tumbleweed> I do agree about adding those options, though
<geser> ah, that's an other issue
<geser> I was just looking at the y-axis
<tumbleweed> geser: there. My js-fu isn't great, took me a while...
<tumbleweed> and regenerated my demo
<Rhonda> huhm, my neighbour called me for upgrade issues to oneiric - and now I'm stuck. :)
<micahg> geser: I think it's fixed now
<Laney> ffs
<Laney> the lplib method is rather annoying
<nigelb> to do what?
<Laney> list uploads
<nigelb> Ah.
<nigelb> I'm tempted to suggest screen scraping, but people will shoot me for that.
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/137132/
<ajmitch> nigelb: yes, you would be shot for that
<ajmitch> Laney: that's ugly
<nigelb> indeed.
<ajmitch> isn't there something in python-debian you can use instead of calling out to dpkg-parsechangelog?
<nigelb> ajmitch: I know. Which is why I was careful not to suggest.
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> fix it?
<ajmitch> "patches welcome"
<ajmitch> or get nigelb to add something to the API so you don't have to do this
<Laney> i filed a bug asking for them to expose the changelog url
<nigelb> drat, should keep a low profile of my lp hacking :P
<Laney> that would be nice
<ajmitch> nigelb: too late for that
<Laney> and the closed bugs, indeed
<nigelb> But then, I'm careful not to touch Soyuz.
<ajmitch> so you still have a tenuous grasp on sanity?
<nigelb> Yep!
<nigelb> Mostly I like solving UI things that irritate me.
<nigelb> Like the the one about mouseovering a bug and getting the bug title.
<nigelb> That's my proudest fix :D
<Laney> i definitely looked at python-debian
<Laney> some reason it didnt do what i wanted
<ajmitch> hm
<Laney> currently mainly need a way to ignore the spphs that you get when intialising a new release
<Laney> any ideas?
 * ajmitch hasn't dealt with that part of lplib
<nigelb> Neither have I.
<geser> nigelb: beware, you might get hired if you work to much on LP, happened to wgrant :)
<nigelb> geser: haha, I'll take that as positive outcome :P
<tumbleweed> Laney: I guess you have no choice but to keep track of versions you've already visited
<tumbleweed> Laney: for ubuntu upload history, can't you get changes files in the vast majority of cases?
<Laney> i am searching for Published spphs with the same version
<Laney> seems like it would be easier to just use the same method for everything
<nigelb> I suggest asking wgrant in the morning. He'd know better than all of us.
<nigelb> (in *his* morning)
<ajmitch> it is his morning, just 7AM there
<nigelb> Oh right. Timezones. Gah.
<ajmitch> yeah, wonderful things
<ajmitch> means that I'm already at work on a monday morning now :(
<nigelb> aww :(
<Laney> erm, well I think it works, but it is pretty much the slowest thing ever
<ajmitch> how long does it take to run?
<ajmitch> and are you tracking what you've checked in the past, so that you don't have to look up all of precise-changes for every run?
<Laney> that is why we have created_since_date
<Laney> oh it's not that bad if you give it a more recent date
<ajmitch> going to run it from a cron job locally, or do you want to put it somewhere like qa.ubuntuwire.org?
<Laney> i'll run it on samosa
<Laney> if they install lplib for me
<ajmitch> useful if you need access to udd as well, I guess
<Laney> given that importing into udd is the whole point, seems to make sense
<ajmitch> the one advantage of ubuntuwire is that it's about 3ms away from LP
<tumbleweed> Laney: I see you've just NMUed hp-ppd which is at the top of oldmerges (thanks to the NMU versions being lower than the ubuntu one). I hope you'll merge it :)
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: yeah, it is impressively quick for lplib
<Laney> erm erm erm
<udienz> tumbleweed, i think xmem need to sync instead of merge
<udienz> bug 876032
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876032 in xmem (Ubuntu) "Please sync xmem 1.20-27.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876032
<tumbleweed> udienz: agreed
<udienz> does only rebuild package is approved to -proposed/-updates?
<udienz> bug 873984 seems like proftpd-dfsg need to rebuild again cureent openssl
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873984 in proftpd-dfsg (Ubuntu) "mod_tls and mod_sftp broken (need rebuild)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873984
<micahg> udienz: if the package is currently broke, sure
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-08
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser
<Laney> hey
<Laney> dholbach: aren't you abroad somewhere?!
<dholbach> hey Laney
<dholbach> I'm at work :)
<Laney> :P
<yolanda> hi, can i get some help with a package? i'm having a problem with postgresql dependencies
<yolanda> i have a bug reported for that: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openerp6.1/+bug/1061418
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061418 in openerp6.1 (Ubuntu) "PostgreSQL database installed but not configured." [High,In progress]
<yolanda> yes, ubottu, that's it
<yolanda> i have the problem that i need to execute a command to create a postgresql user
<yolanda> but as postgres is listed as recommended, it's installed after the openerp package, so the command isn't valid if postgres isn't already there
<yolanda> we wanted to list postgres as recommends because if people chosee remote postgres connection, the package isn't needed, but it's needed with local connection... so i'm lost at this point
<yolanda> hi, can i get some help with that bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openerp6.1/+bug/1061418
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061418 in openerp6.1 (Ubuntu) "PostgreSQL database installed but not configured." [High,In progress]
<geser> you can't really do much about it. you could provide a script to help the admin to set up the database (be it either local or remote)
<yolanda> geser, at the moment it configures correctly postgres, but only if postgres is installed on the system, can i force the installation before openerp package?
<Daviey> It sounds to me suitable Recommends on postgresql not being set, or on the correct package..  but i haven't checked.
<Laney> yolanda: if you want to use stuff in your maintainer scripts, you need to have it as Depends
<Laney> s/maintainer scripts/postinst/
<yolanda> Laney, i have it as recommends, so i should change to depends
<Laney> that's how you guarantee to have it available at the right time
<yolanda> but for some cases postgres isn't needed, so that was my doubt
<Laney> well, then why do you always need to run postgres stuff in the postinst?
<yolanda> Laney, the thing is that i let the user to choose between local and remote installation
<yolanda> if the installation is remote, postgres isn't needed
<yolanda> but it installation is local, it's needed and i need to run an script
<Laney> perhaps you should print an informational message to the user if you can't run the setup then
<Laney> or some other solution like have openerp-local openerp-remote packages with different scripts
<Daviey> doing a [ -f /usr/sbin/postgres ] setupdb() .. seems OK .. but cleaner might be openerp-standalone .. which is a meta-like-package (depends on current stuff, and postgres) with the maintainerscript to do the db setup?
<yolanda> Laney, but i already have the package split in two, between openerp-core that provides only the package and openerp services, and openerp-full, that configures the database connection and leaves openerp ready to run
<yolanda> openerp-core is supposed to be used by advanced users, and openerp-full for general users
<Daviey> (then full needs Depends?)
<Laney> so perhaps -core could automatically do the remote configuaration, then -full reconfigures this to be local?
<yolanda> Daviey, Laney, the question between remote and local is on the full package, at the core we still don't know about the type of connection
<Laney> we're suggesting making some assumptions
<Laney> that the user can override
<Laney> (but not at package installation time)
<yolanda> Laney, don't understand
<yolanda> can i address you to the source code for the package so you can check what i've done and if you detect something that can be improved?
<Laney> yolanda: I'm saying that if you want to make it unconditional then you need the Depends, and then this raises some questions about the local/remote split
<Laney> you should consider what you think is the best approach based on this
<yolanda> Laney, i'm tempted to just add a depends, but it's one of my first packages, so i can't have a clear opinion on it
<cjwatson> Or a conditional self-trigger might be possible, but it's kind of complex
<cjwatson> (And runs the risk of an orphaned trigger if postgres never gets installed, so I think on reflection that's probably not a good idea)
<yolanda> ok ,so simplest way is to just add a Depends, and the worse consequence there is that postgres is installed and not used, right?
<Laney> then users who don't need it won't be able to uninstall it
<Daviey> well -full is the full shebang.  So not necessarily a problem
<geser> yolanda: what's the difference between -core and -full? just the automatic database setup?
<Laney> I'm not saying that it is or isn't, just presenting the facts
<yolanda> geser, full configures the postgres user, and adjusts settings in openerp configuration file
<Laney> so -core is essentially the remote configuration anyway?
<semvoz> good evening
<yolanda> Laney, no, core just installs the openerp source code in the right places, and installs the openerp daemon
<yolanda> then, advanced users could configure openerp manually
<yolanda> but full is intented to be for basic users, so they just get openerp ready to go
<yolanda> i think a depends make sense, because normally basic users will choose local configuration
<semvoz> hmm
<ara> micahg, ping
<TheLordOfTime> anyone here on bugcontrol want to remind me of how we handle bugs against EOL-release packages in general, for packages which don't fall into a specific workflow?
<TheLordOfTime> (i'm not getting answers in -bugs, but i know there's bugcontrollers in this channel :P)
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: unless there's some particular reason why the bug is specific to that release, there's likely nothing special; if it's not been closed it probably still exists
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, all i'm seeing is crap in 10.10, but since this is in a server package, hallyn already answered.
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: in the case of something that's basically a support request or in some other way not well-formed as a bug, it might be a good time to encourage the reporter to recheck
<TheLordOfTime> typically my response is to say "Please test in $nonEOLRelease to confirm if the bug exists"
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: but if it's a well-formed bug report, that just wastes the reporter's time and makes us look foolish
<cjwatson> TheLordOfTime: it's the number one thing my friends complain about when they've filed bugs in Ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, tell me about it
<TheLordOfTime> i see that in nginx packages, and i rage about it :P
<cjwatson> not that their bugs don't get fixed, but that somebody who didn't understand their bug came along, marked their bug incomplete, and asked them if it still existed, even though there was a perfectly good reproduction recipe in the bug
<cjwatson> so yeah, try to make an effort to actually understand the bug before essentially auto-posting to it
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, if you're curious, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/744371 is the bug, but hallyn's given me a method of how to handle it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 744371 in php5 (Ubuntu) "PHP5-FPM doesn't always restart on 10.10" [Medium,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> I'm not curious :)
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, with no response since 2011-09-08, i'm assuming its not been tested in later releases :P
<TheLordOfTime> and that its just fallen off the radar
<cjwatson> that's in general an unreasonable assumption
<cjwatson> how about actually testing
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, works in 12.04
<TheLordOfTime> and worked in 11.04 when i ran that
<TheLordOfTime> 11.10 too, but in 11.04 and 11.10 i dont have any existing testbeds
<TheLordOfTime> since those systems were retired in favor of Precise
<cjwatson> then your setup apparently doesn't match, since hallyn reported that this was still the case in natty
<cjwatson> a good test would involve a system that could reproduce the bug being upgraded and now no longer reproducing the bug
<cjwatson> rather than one that could never reproduce it in the first place
<TheLordOfTime> cjwatson, ah, i see that now, hallyn didnt mention that :P
 * TheLordOfTime yawns
<TheLordOfTime> being tired results in minor oversights like that
<TheLordOfTime> although, natty's EOL this month, i'd like to see it tested in 11.10 :P
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-09
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> I'll start another ubuntu dev hangout-on-air in 10 minutes - anyone interested in co-hosting?
 * Laney orders a webcam
<Laney> what's a good one to get?
<dholbach> hang on - let me find out which one I got
<dholbach> now I have one built-in but before that I used a logitech one and it was very nice
<Zhenech> iirc logitech/* :)
 * Laney gets from this that dholbach has a spare webcam
 * Laney also will be seeing dholbach in person in a couple of weeks
<Laney> ;) ;) ;)
<dholbach> Laney, for the 24h marathon I used it as the cooking-cam :)
<dholbach> so I had 2 webcams :)
<Laney> haha
<dholbach> and wanted to use it as the DJ cam for later in the night
<dholbach> but 4 soundcards were a bit too much for quantal
<dholbach> Laney, I got a Logitech Pro 9000 Webcam
<dholbach> ok, need to go and start the hangout
<Laney> ta
<Laney> have fun
<dholbach> can somebody test on ubuntuonair.com if they hear me?
<Laney> dholbach: silence
<dholbach> damnit
<dholbach> something is wrong with my audio :-((
<dholbach> now?
<Laney> got it
<Laney> yes
 * Laney is also looking for a decent desk microphone
<Laney> the one I have currently is very noisy
<Laney> any suggestions?
<Laney> picked a good-ish cheap-ish one
<Laney> hopefully will have them by next week
<jtaylor> are relatively large bugfixes which were allowed into wheezy a week ago still ok for quantal?
<jtaylor> 70k diff
<jtaylor> debian bug 687616
<ubottu> Debian bug 687616 in release.debian.org "unblock php-apc/3.1.13-1" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/687616
<ajmitch> jtaylor: ask SpamapS, he'd have a better idea of the impact
<SpamapS> oh I'm a bit familiar with apc problems
<ajmitch> it certainly looks like something I'd want, but it's really close to release
<SpamapS> jtaylor: Probably ok, let me read the details
<jtaylor> can an admin please remove php5-auth-pam from quantal
<jtaylor> bug 798571 seems somehow be lost from the list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 798571 in php-auth-pam (Ubuntu) "php5-auth-pam obsolete" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798571
<jtaylor> as all my other removal bugs are already done
<cjwatson> Not lost, just not done yet
<cjwatson> I've been processing in sort of random order
<cjwatson> I'll probably have a more systematic attack on archive bugs tomorrow
<SpamapS> jtaylor: +1 from me.. the upstream changelog is pretty clear.. fixes and added tests.. I see no features.
<jtaylor> SpamapS: thx I'll sync it
<SpamapS> jtaylor: and a few of those bugs sound nasty (they usually are with apc)
<SpamapS> jtaylor: thanks!
<SpamapS> jtaylor: oh! quantal already has 3.1.12 .. so its just the one segfault fix. Even more +1 :)
<jtaylor> oh good
<jtaylor> only checked the diff in the unblock not the one to quantal :/
<iulian> php-apc accepted.
<jtaylor> thx
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-10
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> bdrung, do you think we could get another ubuntu-packaging-guide uploaded?
<bdrung> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> I just added an article which I feel could be interesting
<dholbach> once we have it uploaded, I can take care of a backport to precise
<dholbach> thanks a lot bdrung
<bdrung> dholbach: before uploading: in 2.3.2 there is an missing closing bracket
<bdrung> dholbach: the structure of the following sentence is a bit weird: "While this test is very small and basic, it tests quite a number of core components on a system, so is very important to have as it might uncover a big number of problems."
<dholbach> bdrung, hum, what is 2.3.2?
<bdrung> dholbach: "The actual tests"
<dholbach> aha
<dholbach> let me see
<dholbach> bdrung, thanks a lot - fixed
<dholbach> bdrung, hang on, just got another suggeston from jibel
<dholbach> done
<bdrung> dholbach: btw, do you want to become a maintainer of that package in Debian?
<dholbach> hm, I have never really dealt with uploading packages to Debian
<bdrung> dholbach: being maintainer != doing an upload
<dholbach> still, I'm not sure I should be doing it
<bdrung> dholbach: you are listed in Uploaders and in the changelog stanza, but you still need a sponsor to do the actual upload
<bdrung> being a maintainer is more about having the responsibility
<dholbach> I'm really happy to take care of it in Ubuntu - but I'm not sure I want to be maintainer of it in Debian - I deal with almost everything else around the packaging guide already and I don't even have a Debian system to try things on
<bdrung> dholbach: i doubt that this package could have debian only bugs
<bdrung> dholbach: the grammar seems wrong in the new sentence "Also will [...]"
<dholbach> hum
<bdrung> where's the subject?
<dholbach> I'm not sure
<dholbach> "packages in Debian" is the subject of the sentence
<bdrung> Also packages in Debian with a testsuite header will be automatically added when they are synced to Ubuntu.
<bdrung> sound more English to me
<dholbach> ^ native speakers :)
<cjwatson> Better but not quite
<cjwatson> Packages in Debian with a testsuite header will also be automatically added when they are synced to Ubuntu.
<cjwatson> Seems better to me
<dholbach> great, thank you
<cjwatson> (You could alternatively say "Also, ...", but that reads a bit clumsily to me.)
<cjwatson> Puts the stress in a slightly different place I suppose.
<dholbach> updated :)
<bdrung> dholbach: thanks. i am doing the upload now.
<dholbach> excellent
<spartan-11510> Hi
<spartan-11510> i've a litlle question on packaging. When you have a java software, do you create a shell for launh the software, because you must write "java -jar archive.jar"
<cjwatson> I answered spartan-11510 on #ubuntu-devel.  (It's best not to crosspost questions, generally.)
<cjwatson> (Or at least say that you've done so.)
<spartan-11510> Okay i'll remember for the next time :) and thank's a lot for your answer
<MohamedAlaa98_> hello :)
<MohamedAlaa98_> I've a source package (im-switch) and I want to create a patch for it
<MohamedAlaa98_> but the problem is it doesn't have a patch system
<MohamedAlaa98_> when I run the command edit-patch my-patch
<MohamedAlaa98_> I get this output No patchsystem detected, cannot create new patch (no dpatch/quilt/cdbs?)
<cjwatson> It's a native package; it doesn't and shouldn't have a patch system.  Just edit the source code directly.
<MohamedAlaa98_> you mean using the bzr branching/
<MohamedAlaa98_> ?
<MohamedAlaa98_> I've already made a branch with the fix I want
<MohamedAlaa98_> https://code.launchpad.net/~m-alaa8/ubuntu/quantal/im-switch/fix-for-621204
<micahg> MohamedAlaa98_: I think that needs a UIFe (I thought I commented on that)
 * micahg guesses he thought about commenting on that
<cjwatson> I don't care whether it involves bzr or not.  My point is that you just edit the files directly rather than creating a patch file.
<MohamedAlaa98> sorry for lag
<MohamedAlaa98> did I miss something?
<cjwatson> 17:20 <cjwatson> I don't care whether it involves bzr or not.  My point is that you just edit the files directly rather than creating a patch file.
<micahg> [11:19] <micahg> MohamedAlaa98_: I think that needs a UIFe (I thought I commented on that)
<micahg> [11:19] * micahg guesses he thought about commenting on that
<MohamedAlaa98> https://code.launchpad.net/~m-alaa8/ubuntu/quantal/im-switch/fix-for-621204
<mitya57> MohamedAlaa98: you forgot a hash mark before the bug number (LP: 621204)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621204 in im-switch (Ubuntu) "Typo in error string" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621204
<mitya57> MohamedAlaa98: and please also submit the change to Debian ;)
<mitya57> there is a submittodebian tool in ubuntu-dev-tools
<Laney> tumbleweed: micahg: bdrung: Who's organising the UDS KSP then? ;-)
<MohamedAlaa98> sorry the irc client disconnects, what did I miss?
<MohamedAlaa98> mitya57: how?
<tumbleweed> Laney: good thinking
<mitya57> MohamedAlaa98: simply run submittodebian
<mitya57> MohamedAlaa98: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug-example.html#getting-the-fix-included
<MohamedAlaa98> ok
<jtaylor> tinymux ftbs confuses me
<jtaylor> it declares an own stpcpy which apparently conflicts with the one in string.h
<jtaylor> but the one in string.h should not be enabled by default
<jtaylor> its not enabled on the command line or config.h
<jtaylor> hm found it some autoconf.h defines gnu source
<jtaylor> wait GNU_SOURCE should also not enable it ...
<jtaylor> how to fill out the bug template for an sru fixing two bugs?
<jtaylor> fill out the template in both bugs or just one?
<micahg> jtaylor: template in both debdiff on one
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-11
 * micahg better upload more stuff, jtaylor is catching up fast
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> I'll start an Ubuntu-On-Air hangout in a bit - anyone wants to co-host?
 * xnox sorry, bad hair day.
<Rhonda> sorry, at work.
<dholbach> no worries
<dholbach> I'll do an intro to ubuntu development I thought
<xnox> dholbach: in german?
<dholbach> xnox, english of course
<xnox> dholbach: =(
<xnox> you should do one in german & french I think =)
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> next time
<xnox> dholbach: team up with seb128
<Laney> with live translation into lettish by xnox
 * xnox *giggles* Ich spreche Lettish nicht so gut.
<gotwig> hey there, please take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nodejs/+bug/1065598
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1065598 in nodejs (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/env: node: No such file or directory " [Undecided,New]
<gotwig> luck, to get an exception for a fix?
<gotwig> in the last cyle, there were also critical nodeJS bugs, so an exception was permitted
<micahg> gotwig: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2012/07/msg00002.html
<gotwig> micahg: so what
<micahg> gotwig: so node as a binary is no longer provided, you need to use nodejs
<gotwig> micahg: yes, I see but look at the end of http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=614907
<ubottu> Debian bug 614907 in tech-ctte "node: name conflicts with node.js interpreter" [Serious,Open]
<gotwig> > It has been resolved for days now, would please someone
<gotwig> > implement the solution? I can, as offered previously, help.
<gotwig> If this needs an NMU then that's fine; I'd be happy to sponsor it if
<gotwig> necessary.
<micahg> hrm?  the "fixed" version is in quantal
<gotwig> micahg: eh, no?
<gotwig> micahg: in which package
<micahg> nodejs
<gotwig> micahg: no.
<gotwig> micahg: log?
<micahg> gotwig: what are you looking for?
<micahg> nodejs in quantal implements that decision
<jtaylor> gotwig: you need to install nodejs-legacy
<gotwig> jtaylor: I also heared that
<gotwig> jtaylor: I am going to give it a try, thanks
<gotwig> what means "legacy" in this case
<jtaylor> that bin/node should not be used
<gotwig> but many nodejs apps use it
<gotwig> for system wide configurations
<jtaylor> yes, but its wrong
<gotwig> becouse?
<jtaylor> namespace polution
<gotwig> ok
<jtaylor> bin/node is already taken
<jtaylor> and its far to generic
<jtaylor> the other node is also forcibly renamed in debian
<micahg> if you find a broken app in the archive, please file a bug against it (I think we tried to pull in as many fixes as we saw ready in Debian for this)
<gotwig> why is legacy not a dependency, suggestion, what ever of nodejs package?
<micahg> gotwig: did you read the link I gave you about the "why" of all this?
<jtaylor> hm I guess because debian does not want people using it
<gotwig> yes
<jtaylor> but it could be added
<gotwig> debian is a philosophy
<jtaylor> afk a while
<micahg> gotwig: see point 2 in that message
<gotwig> offtopic: have you seen this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nodejs/+bug/882880
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 882880 in nodejs (Ubuntu) "node crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,New]
<gotwig> after installing legacy, it also fixed other problems
<jtaylor> sigsegv due to missing binary?
<jtaylor> a sign of quality software
<gotwig> g2g
<gotwig> thx for support
* micahg changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Quantal: Archive frozen until Quantal releases | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://bit.ly/fz6AyQ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs | Small tasks: http://goo.gl/bSual
<bobweaver> hello there I am writing a puppet script and am at the point when making gpg  I am using find / -name *  to gain entropy got any clues to gather it faster ?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-12
<micahg> RAOF: smuxi probably should've been versioned -0ubuntu1 since we're ahead of Debian
<ajmitch> blame the debian maintainer, he's upstream & prepared the smuxi upload :)
<RAOF> Bah, you're right. I didn't check his versioning.
<ajmitch> this is probably one case where you can get away with it
<micahg> ajmitch: that's not the first Debian maintainer to do stuff like that :)
<ajmitch> micahg: no, it's not, but at least there shouldn't be a conflicting .orig.tar.gz, just a misleading version
<micahg> ajmitch: hopefully :-/, sometimes people get confused on which is the upstream version (see blueman)
<ajmitch> ubuntu & debian branches are in the same git repository for smuxi, at least
<micahg> that would be a plus :)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<Laney> haha
<Laney> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-q-debian
<xnox> everyone vote for bzr-builddeb https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/Popularity_of_bzr-builddeb_and_dh-make/
<tumbleweed> Laney: I am still intending to my action item there before UDS
<tumbleweed> Ubuntu: filled with good intentions...
<micahg> YokoZar: poke about wine and gcc-4.5 :)
<YokoZar> micahg: do you still want that done for Quantal?
<micahg> if possible :)
<YokoZar> If so I'll do it this weekend then, sure.
<micahg> until Tuesday we can take it for sure, after that, depends
<YokoZar> micahg: was the whole archive built without gcc-4.5 at this point?
<micahg> YokoZar: well, wine is the only package with an explicit dependency left
<YokoZar> micahg: I'm worried about binary packages that were built with an older GCC if we dont' ship that
<micahg> it's buildable without it
<micahg> the gcc libraries should be BC compatible
<YokoZar> We don't currently use the binaries produced by the test archive rebuilds though
<micahg> *backwards comaptible
<YokoZar> Yes but that's not quite the same thing
<micahg> if there was an ABI break with gcc, we'd probably hear about it pretty quickly
<YokoZar> Like maybe a package builds with newer GCC but behaves differently.  And our current binary was built with GCC-4.5 and then we remove GCC-4.5 from archive, so no one could build the current binary
<micahg> yes, but in that case, most likely, the current binary wasn't built on this series
<YokoZar> micahg: gcc-4.7 was made default right at the start of quantal dev then, yes?
<micahg> yes
<micahg> and 4.6 in precise
<MCR1> astraljava: Hi :) You are a packager ?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-13
<obounaim> Good morning.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-10-14
<Rhonda> Is there already some images available for 12.10?  A neighbour would like to has his system newly installed, and I guess using 12.10 might be an option already? :)
<Rhonda> Ah, found it in the wiki, beta2 is current, right?
<sagaci> Rhonda, rc images are on the qa tracker
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> What image would I need for booting from an USB stick?
<Rhonda> Rhonda: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
<Rhonda> *grmpf*  usb-creator* not available in Debian  :/
<Rhonda> Someone willing to use usb-creator for me and make the file available? :)
<iulian> Rhonda: Use unetbootin.
<Rhonda> iulian, thanks!
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> That didn't work. Do I have to mkfs.vfat on the raw device instead of on a partition?
<cjwatson> Rhonda: Just dd the image to the raw USB disk device.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-07
<dholbach> good morning
<stgraber> xnox: any idea about bug 1226912?
<ubottu> bug 1226912 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Saucy) "ubiquity starts but does not appear" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226912
<stgraber> xnox: so far I've confirmed it's somehow related to the ubuntuone plugin and is easily reproducable when booting a system straight to the desktop and starting ubiquity from there
<stgraber> xnox: it looks like it's also somehow webkit related since adding a "return" in the plugin's __init__ before webkit is loaded makes ubiquity load again
<stgraber> oops, off by one error in irssi channel index, that was meant for -installer ;)
<stgraber> xnox: continuing in #ubuntu-installer
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-08
<dholbach> good morning
<lfaraone> Erk. It looks like autokey-{gtk,qt} totally broke in recent Saucy builds.
<lfaraone> I wanted to upload the new upstream version that I could later SRU (since it was only bugfixes), butâ¦
<lfaraone> Do I need to do anything special for an upload during a freeze to universe that shouldn't require a FFE?
<cjwatson> No, just upload
<lfaraone> Ah, okay. (Also, that was a fast accept! :))
<Laney> it's automatic
<Laney> for unseeded stuff
<lfaraone> Ah, okay.
<jtaylor> subscribing ubuntu-archive is correct for removals or?
<cjwatson> Yes
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-09
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-10
<dholbach> good morning
<Noskcaj> Debian has release a fix for bug 892774, i'll make the sync bug now
<ubottu> bug 892774 in pdnsd (Ubuntu) "package pdnsd 1.2.8-par-2 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892774
<Noskcaj>  bug 1237828
<ubottu> bug 1237828 in pdnsd (Ubuntu) "Sync pdnsd 1.2.9a-par-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237828
<philsf> hello, I published code for two projects in lp, but in my innocence I used (bzr) tags to identify release versions. what is the best practice to track those in lp? do I need to branch at each version?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-11
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> Is there a wiki or help page on the difference between regular suite and -update suite?
<Rhonda> And the timeline for when -update flows back into regular one?  I.e. the point releases?
<Rhonda> Ah, I guess I found it, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<Rhonda> Are all packages in -update flowing into the next point, or are there sometimes packages getting rejected?
<cjwatson> Rhonda: all packages in -updates go to the next point release - in fact the point release is basically a snapshot of -updates
<Rhonda> A snapshot of -updates?  So -updates is a full suite, not just the revised packages?
<cjwatson> Sorry, a snapshot of (release + release-updates)
<cjwatson> -updates is a partial suite
<Rhonda> Thanks :)
<Legendario> hi
<Legendario> bzr builddeb fails and says "secret key not available"
<Legendario> but I have the key
<Legendario> may be it is because I have multiple keys in it
<Legendario> is there a way to specify the key?
<Legendario> like there was in dh_builddeb
<psusi> what is a "multi byte string"?  Does that mean UTF-8 or does it depend on your locale?
<jtaylor> any unicode string can be multibyte
<jtaylor> e.g there are unicode codecs with fixed size, 2, 3 or 4 byte, or variable size codecs like utf-8
<jtaylor> utf-8 is multibyte as soon as you go beyong ascii (or latin1?)
<psusi> I mean the C functions like wctomb... what does it mean when it says multi byte?  what is the actual char set used?
<psusi> parted seems to be taking the UTF-16 string in the partition table and just decimating it to 8 bit chars by discarding the upper 8 bits
<psusi> so I'm trying to figure out how to fix it to translate it to the proper form, but I'm not sure what that is and how to do it...
<psusi> I'm guessing it is UTF-8
<psusi> or does the native code set depend on the current locale?  and some don't use utf-8?
<jtaylor> there is utf-16 in the partition table oO
<jtaylor> fun
<jtaylor> I think what the C w* functions do is locale dependent
<jtaylor> but luckyly I never had to actually use them
<jtaylor> so can't really help you
<psusi> looks like I need to convert from utf-16 to wchar_t, then convert that into whatever encoding the current locale is using... wait... what is wchar_t?  isnt't that always utf-16?
<jtaylor> I think so
<jtaylor> no not utf-16, but always 2 byte
<jtaylor> could be UCS-16 or whatever weird 2 byte encodings there are
<jtaylor> hm no its not even defined what size it is in the standard
<jtaylor> (4 byte on my system btw)
<psusi> jesus christ... how can all of these conversion functions talk about what they are converting from/to without knowing what the actual format of either end is!
<jtaylor> they get it from the locale
<Legendario> any help up above?
<psusi> so the locale defines BOTH the format of wchar_t, and the multibyte char set?
<jtaylor> yes
<psusi> this is fubar
<jtaylor> Legendario: pass -k<keyid> to the build
<jtaylor> or DEBSIGN_KEYID= in ~/.devscripts
<jtaylor> yes unicode in C is no fun
<jtaylor> man problems would be solved if everything would just be utf8 :(
<Legendario> jtaylor, I've tried but got an error "bzr: ERROR: no such option: -k"
<jtaylor> add it after --
<jtaylor> it goes to dpkg-buildpackage
<jtaylor> bzr-buildpackage -- -k
<Legendario> jtaylor, cool! Worked out! :-)
<Legendario> jtaylor, what does the -- stand for?
<jtaylor> its convention to indicate stop parsing for own parameters and pass the rest on to sub-processes
<cjwatson> or treat as literal strings rather than options
<Legendario> jtaylor, cjwatson , awsome! :-) Is it still possible to add a package to saucy or is it already frozen?
<cjwatson> We're pretty hard-frozen for non-essentials
<cjwatson> But T is only six months away
<psusi> Tiny Trilobyte? ;)
<psusi> I could have sworn that redhat had a nice page that made it simple to see what patches they have applied to their packages,  but google is being unhelpful.  Anyone know what I'm talking about?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-10-12
<lenios> hey there. I've packaged a new version of the dooble web browser which is unmaintained for a long time. I've uploaded it to my ppa for raring and i'm wondering what i should do next to get it into ubuntu. Should i create a bug needs-packaging? i'll try to get it into debian, but it can take some time...
<Noskcaj> lenios, Make an upgrade-software-version bug and attach the PPA link as a patch.
<Noskcaj> If the package comes from debian, it's a lot better for everyone if it gets packaged there firsts
<lenios> i know but it was an ubuntu only package.
<Noskcaj> then my first responce
<lenios> i will
<Noskcaj> and please make the package lintian clean
<lenios> talking about that. there's a lib created by the package and i'm not sure where to put it. i've put it in /usr/lib/arch-linux-gnu/ and maybe it should be in /usr/lib/dooble
<Noskcaj> lenios, for all your packaging help, you want #debian-mentors
<lenios> ok
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-06
<Asus1> !ops
<Asus1> elky, i love yoy
<Asus1> !ops
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-07
<Logan_> jtaylor: do you mind if I steal the radiotray merge from you?
<ScottK> Logan_: After DIF, it's OK to steal without asking.
<Logan_> okay, that's fair
<jtaylor> dif?
<geser> Debian Import Freeze
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-08
<photon2038> Hello All.   I have a few applications that I wrote and think might benefit other people.  I already managed to package and upload them to launchpad.  What is the recommended path to get them to universe?
<rbasak> photon2038: thanks for your interest! Are you aware of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages? Essentially, the Debian path is preferred. When a new package enters Debian, it'll get auto-synced to Ubuntu (subject to the release schedule).
<photon2038> Thanks, I'll read it
<rbasak> We're too late for Utopic now really. But if you get your software into Debian, it should be in time for the release after Utopic.
<rbasak> (though Debian will enter freeze soon, too)
<photon2038> Yeah, there's no hurry.  Just feel like a waste to have invested time in useful software without ability to share.
<rbasak> A PPA is an excellent start.
<rbasak> To get software into the archive though, we have to follow the release process.
<rbasak> That's a quality standard that users except from software in the official archive.
<rbasak> expect
<filipsohajek> Hi
<filipsohajek> Can i get sponsorship for package here?
<shadeslayer> Uh .. :p
<teward> unless i'm blind, i'm unable to find what DEB_TARGET_ARCH does in Debian package building and such - anyone got any idea?  Checked manpages, checked a google and can't see it  (related: http://askubuntu.com/questions/533789/repackaging-deb-with-an-alternate-target)
<teward> nevermind...
<geser> I guess DEB_TARGET_ARCH is specific to binutils only
<teward> geser: which is what i found, after the person edited their question being specific enough :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-09
<wookey_> teward: that's right. dpkg latest upload to debian added a standard mechanism to specify target arch for builds
<wookey_> so the small number of things that need it (binutils, gcc, potentially gobject-introspection) can all use the same mechanism
<PottyTheShitter> yo
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-10
<shadeslayer> No dholbach :(
<bluesabre> :(
#ubuntu-motu 2014-10-12
<Unit193> mapreri: Mind a quick PM?
<mapreri> Unit193: IFF it is not something that could be done in a channel AND it's very quick
<Unit193> Well it's not really Ubuntu, but can do.  First, thanks a ton for looking into Limnoria!  I believe you have a slight typo here: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/limnoria.git/tree/debian/copyright#n3 and was going to link to what I had for it's packaging to see if there's anything you're interested in, but not saying you'd be interested.
<mapreri> Unit193: It's not really a typo... It's the open curly brackets for putting in an email. Unlucky I ran out of time yesterday and didn't have any other chances to find a proper email address
<mapreri> Unit193: I'm always interested in something else! It's the first pure python package I did, and I'm not really sure I did the right thing (even if it works fine, I'd say)
<Unit193> mapreri: Of course, but it wasn't filled out.  He tends to favor his progval@progval with the TLD .net.  OK, I'll just sync what I have in bzr with what I have locally.
<mapreri> Unit193: indeed... (looking at the git history locally.....)
<mapreri> Unit193: out of curiosity, how do you manage the src/version.py changing in the clean phase?
<Unit193> mapreri: Well, it's a local package, so it's catered to my needs and allows me to take some leeway.  Since src/version.py is generated on build, I remove it on clean.  And, taking it with a grain of salt (more so the override on the install phase): http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unit193/+junk/limnoria/files/head:/debian/
<mapreri> i.e. my package does not build (yet) a python3 version...
<Unit193> Mine uses rename to make them co-installable, not pretty but for what I need...  Better option was to use alternatives system, but I haven't done that just yet.
<mapreri> and the recommends/suggests field is not completed (it's hard to me to try all the plugins, and my servers are not "bare server" where I can really test the depends
<Unit193> Heh, indeed.  Hopefully the testsuite covers most of the important ones.
<Unit193> Well, glad you took it up, and wish you good luck.
<mapreri> Unit193: thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-05
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-06
<dholbach> good morning
<lavii> hello to all
<lavii> as i am completely new to the ubuntu development. I am intrested in to fixing the bugs. so please help me form where i will start
<rbasak> lavii: you could start by tackling bitesize bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize&orderby=-date_last_updated&start=0) but note that often bugfixes need to go upstream rather than into Ubuntu directly.
<lavii> rbasak: Thanks for guiding me sir. Can you tell me wht is the meaning of the "TRIAGED" in the bug importance?
<lavii> rbasak: And i also not able to know how i will start digging to fix a bug after getting the code of that particular package??
<rbasak> lavii: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Bug%20statuses for an explanation of the various bug statuses
<rbasak> lavii: unforunately fixing a bug is a very individual thing. How to do it depends on the bug.
<lavii> rbasak: means the "TRIAGED" is that bug where any one can start working to fix it????
<rbasak> lavii: you can help with driving any bug to resolution that isn't Won't Fix or Fix Released.
<rbasak> (or Invalid)
<rbasak> (or Fix Committed, or if In Progress then check with the assignee to avoid duplicate work)
<rbasak> So it seems a little bit more complicated, but I hope that's not confusing.
<lavii> rbasak: What is ()
<lavii> rbasak: Sir what do you mean by (or Invalid)
<slackner> hiho, someone is aware how to proceed with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1437520 (packaging for wine staging)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1437520 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] wine staging" [Wishlist,New]
<slackner> the bug report was opened about half a year ago, and i even offered help several times. in the meantime staging is an official branch of WineHQ
<slackner> btw: if regular wine package maintainers are listening, those packages are terrible broken ... if any help is needed to fix those issues, feel free to ask
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-07
<dholbach> good morning
<dupondje> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sflphone/+bug/1497871
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497871 in sflphone (Ubuntu) "SIP auth fails with gcc 5.x build" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> might want to sponsor this :)
<dholbach> dupondje, I'm a bit busy right now - I won't get to this in quite a while
<dholbach> maybe ask in #u-devel?
<sil2100> dupondje: I might try picking it up for you
<sil2100> dupondje: just give me 5 minutes and I'll look at the bug+debdiff :)
<dupondje> fine :)
<sil2100> Ok, doing some test-builds on a few archs now
<dupondje> well the current sflphone is totally useless as auth is broken ;)
<dupondje> auth is fixed (tested it) with the patch, so guess its usefull to get it added :)
<sil2100> Looking good so far, will upload in a moment :)
<sil2100> dupondje: I'm actually interested in uploading this as it fixes one of the FTBFS from the test rebuild we did ;)
<sil2100> dupondje: ok, uploaded - thanks for the debdiff!
<dupondje> np
<sil2100> Oh, I see dholbach uploaded it a few minutes before me
<dholbach> :)
 * sil2100 is a sad panda
<dupondje> lol
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-08
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-09
<dholbach> good morning
<thebwt> Good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-10-10
<bipul> ns id bipul789
#ubuntu-motu 2017-10-09
<liam-r> @rbasak Sorry to bother you again but I tried omitting the first "dch -i" in my workflow and still can't get that man page to update. I can see that my change is recorded in util-linux_2.30.1-0ubuntu5_amd.changes but I still get the typo after running dpkg -i with the .deb on my artful system. Maybe I have something set up incorrectly or I'm not actually replacing the version on the artful system? I did track upstream to ke
<liam-r> will patch there if it isn't already but I think I'll need to figure this out anyway for future bugs
<rbasak> liam-r: you can run "debdiff <old dsc> <new dsc>" to see if your change actually made it into the source package
<rbasak> liam-r: can you pastebin that?
<liam-r> I messed about a bit so there's 3 files as I added a second changelog entry, I've tested building at all stages https://pastebin.com/8UHQBaHV
<liam-r> thanks
<liam-r> rbasak I just realized you probably meant to debdiff the .dsc in pbuilder/artful_result but I get some errors when I do that. New paste is at https://pastebin.com/z3Gqxy38 . I need to go back to the day job for a few hours but I'll leave the chat logged in.
<rbasak> liam-r: util-linux_2.30.1-0ubuntu5.dsc looks fine to me
<liam-r> rbasak: I ran dpkg -x on the generated .deb I've been installing and I can't find "mount.8" anywhere in the contents. Maybe I've been building or installing the wrong thing? There's a mount.txt note in Documentation that says "== Notes to developers ==
<liam-r> 	The final solution will be libmount/mount.c as the
<liam-r> 	mount(8) command implementation. So, let's keep the
<liam-r> 	current mount/* code in maintenance mode and don't try to
<liam-r> 	rewrite it :-)
<liam-r> "
<liam-r> so maybe it's to do with the package rather than my build of it?
<rbasak> liam-r: the util-linux source package builds many binary packages with many different names. Are you installing the right one?
<rbasak> liam-r: looks like you want mount....deb
<liam-r> rbasak: Thanks, that's it. I had also just  thought to mangled the man for fsck and it shows when I install the util-linux deb.
<liam-r> As a matter of interest how did you figure out that mount.....deb would be the package? Did you go through the build for util-linux or is there an easier way?
<rbasak> $ dpkg -S mount.8
<rbasak> mount: /usr/share/man/man8/umount.8.gz
<rbasak> mount: /usr/share/man/man8/mount.8.gz
<rbasak> It's a fair question :)
<liam-r> Ah ok I had no idea that they could be built from another package and deployed like that. I'll need to sit down with some .deb documentation for a night or two I think :) Thanks again for helping me out so much I was going crazy trying to figure out what I was doing
<rbasak> No problem.
<rbasak> It's not built from another package.
<rbasak> Source packages exist in a separate namespace from binary packages.
<rbasak> One source package builds one or more binary packages.
<rbasak> Collorary: each binary package is built from exactly one source package.
<liam-r> Ah it begins to make sense. Thanks
<cfs> Hello, I'm pinging about sponsorship for LP:1716047 (fix trusty's rustc control file).
#ubuntu-motu 2017-10-10
<rbasak> cfs: I commented in the bug
<cfs> rbasak: I see, I've replied.  I'm not sure what is required other to say that trusty-security/universe/source/Sources is not parsable on trusty anymore because of the bad restriction formulas.
<cfs> And that is bad if you depend on being able to do so on trusty.
<cfs> Rather parsing the build dependencies *
<rbasak> cfs: parseable by *what*? For example, if you showed that rebuilding Trusty on Trusty was no longer possible, that's reasonable.
<rbasak> cfs: but if rebuilding works, then normally we need to understand *actual user impact* before considering fixing something in a stable release.
<rbasak> If you don't want to explain further, your issue may not get fixed.
<rbasak> Though in this case it might well just get fixed the next time a new version needs to be backported for security
#ubuntu-motu 2017-10-14
<Jacalz> Hi, I would like to submit a package ð¦
<Jacalz> The package that I want to submit is called Brave and is
<Jacalz> a browser that has privacy features while being focused on speed and build be the creator of JavaScript ð
<Jacalz> brave.com
<Jacalz> I donât know how to package it so any help would be appreciated ð
<sladen> jacalz: according to the download page, there is already a .deb
<sladen> https://brave.com/download/
<Unit193> Long gone.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-10-08
<dystie> hullo folks.    quick question - is there a eta on https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2018/CVE-2018-17456.html for 16.0.4 and 18.0.4?
<ubottu> Git before 2.14.5, 2.15.x before 2.15.3, 2.16.x before 2.16.5, 2.17.x before 2.17.2, 2.18.x before 2.18.1, and 2.19.x before 2.19.1 allows remote code execution during processing of a recursive "git clone" of a superproject if a .gitmodules file has a URL field beginning with a '-' character. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-17456)
<teward> dystie: #ubuntu-hardened might be the better place to ask, since that's the SEcurity team's purview typically
<dystie> cool beans, thanks.  :)
<dystie> i posted in there as well.
<teward> then patience is what is left :)
<dystie> yaaay!
<teward> (I apparently wasn' tin the channel and I normally lurk :P)
<dystie> and git is like.  super important.
<dystie> really actually is very important.
<dystie> yay security!
#ubuntu-motu 2018-10-09
<Unit193> micahg: Hi, you still active in Ubuntu?  Still have backport permissions?  I would greatly appreciate a dh-autoreconf backport to bionic, it adds support for Xfce packages which means the Xfce packages are removing overrides and thus fail personal backports to Ubuntu.
<micahg> is there a bug with rdeps tested?
<Unit193> dh-autoreconf is a dep of debhelper, so every package build-depends on it.
<Unit193> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/d/dh-autoreconf/unstable_changelog if one jumps to the latest, there's precisely two changes: The Xfce one, and "Correctly restore working directory if autoreconf failed"
<micahg> Reverse-Depends
<micahg> ===============
<micahg> * debhelper                     (for dh-autoreconf)
<micahg> * libcpluff0                    (for dh-autoreconf)
<micahg> * libdvd-pkg                    (for dh-autoreconf)
<micahg> Unit193: if you open a backport bug, I'll look at it this week, there was a backport for xenial, so take a look at what was tested for that
<Unit193> micahg: Thank you very much!
<Unit193> There's no bug, can't check.  But I can test debhelper (because I already have in PPA.)
<micahg> Unit193: requestbackport -d bionic -s cosmic dh-autoreconf
<Unit193> Indeed.
<Unit193> lazr.restfulclient.errors.BadRequest: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request
<Unit193> (Pretty sure the long list of Reverse-Build-Depends made it fail.)
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1796783
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1796783 in Bionic Backports "Please backport dh-autoreconf 19 (main) from cosmic" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> Thanks
<Unit193> Thank you!
