#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-01
<vuth> directhex u there?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Chris Anderson Confirmed For 2nd Ed. Foreword - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/08/01/chris-anderson-confirmed-for-2nd-ed-foreword/
<daubers> Morning
<Nafallo> good morning! :-D
 * Nafallo woke up to the news that UK is world champions again! :-D
<jpds> Nafallo: Turn off the TV before going to bed next time.
<gord> happy mailman day all
<MooDoo> hello all
<MooDoo> Nafallo: world champs?  what at?
<diplo> Morning all
<DJones> Was that in the international phone hacking competition?
<BigRedS> we'd have lost at that
<BigRedS> since in the UK 'hacking' = 'trying the default password'
<jpds> BigRedS: Well, how many times did you reboot it?
<MooDoo> the only other one i know is darts.....
<BigRedS> jpds: hm?
<Nafallo> jpds: haven't got a TV (at least not one that can view TV)
<Nafallo> MooDoo: street dance. http://www.plaguedance.com/2011/08/we-are-the-champions/
<MooDoo> ah cool
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> *yawn*
<BigRedS> Are we keeping you up?
<DJones> I recon its the stimulating conversation in the channel keeping MooDoo awake
<Daviey> Will you lot be quiet, some of us are trying to sleep. Thanks.
<MooDoo> lol it must be that "it's monday it's busy" type of situation
<gord> i wonder if i could set up a home office centred around my bed....
<gord> would make mondays easier
<oimon> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/8674416/Google-Chrome-web-browser-second-most-popular-in-UK.html
<BigRedS> I wonder if that's based on w3schools' stats, too :)
<oimon> according to statcounter
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<oimon> could be indicative of the type of sites that would use something like statcounter
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to remind her it's Monday
<davmor2> morning MooDoo dude
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<MooDoo> hows it going davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: good thanks you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's monday....so meh!
<oimon> hehe :) http://www.emcartoons.com/July-2011/someone-has-a-secret
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'll tell you about it once I wake up ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: WAKE UP!!!
<davmor2> MooDoo: don't try waking me up then I'm just grumpy and blame the person that woke me ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<bastubis> hi - this is paula - I have Linda who was having problems with her laptop connecting to BT
<bastubis> and I'm showing her how to access the right channel
<bastubis> because I think she was in the wrong place
<DJones> Hi paula/bastubis
<MooDoo> hello bastubis [paula]
<DJones> Also, welcome to the channel Linda
<bastubis> OK, we've checked her laptop and there's no problem in ubuntu
<bastubis> she's connected to our wifi no probs
<bastubis> we've deleted auto-logins for her BT hub
<bastubis> I hope it'll just work when she gets home
<bastubis> if not, we're configuring xchat so she can come back
<MooDoo> we'll be here :)
<MooDoo> that was quick ;)
<Apacheuk> bastubis: is it the latest BT hub? I have a home hub 2.0 and don't have any issues here
<AlanBell> hi bastubis
<AlanBell> what is Linda's IRC nick?
<AlanBell> hi LindaDamerell :)
<LindaDamerell> hello
<MooDoo> hello LindaDamerell
<MooDoo> :)
<bastubis> Hi Linda
<bastubis> OK, I think we're good here - thanks :)
<MooDoo> blimey it's quiet
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<popey> Morning all!
<davmor2> morning popey
<brobostigon> hi popey and davmor2
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> it is 12:10, isnt it meant to be afternoon.
<MooDoo> howdy popey and brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<BranCo_SCB_> Hi everyone. Does anyone know if there's an E-magazine on Ubuntu UK.
<AlanBell> hi BranCo_SCB_ there is the full circle mag
<AlanBell> global focus but based in the UK
<BranCo_SCB_> The Full Circle Mag?
<BranCo_SCB_> I'll search. Thank you.
<AlanBell> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/
<BranCo_SCB_> The magazine is great! What software do they use to make it?
<popey> BranCo_SCB_: dunno, scribus I think
<davmor2> BranCo_SCB_: I think in issue 1 or 2 they give you a break down of what tools to use
<directhex> vim and latex.
<BranCo_SCB_> I'll check. Tnx.
<KrisDouglas> Hello, I am having a problem getting my ubuntu server to get it's hostname resolving on our network. We have a windows server as a DNS and the fqdn for the ubuntu server is setup to crm.domain.local
<KrisDouglas> the windows server is sbs.domain.local and that works
<KrisDouglas> but the ubuntu server won't resolve.
<AlanBell> the .local domain is special
<AlanBell> works with avahi
<KrisDouglas> I don't like the sound of that
<KrisDouglas> :)
<directhex> .local means something specific
<AlanBell> I do, it just works!
<AlanBell> hostname.local just resolves
<directhex> it's auto-discovered domains found using mdns, aka zeroconf aka apple's bonjour
<AlanBell> no need for DNS at all
<KrisDouglas> So I am going to assume I have to install Avahi?
<AlanBell> depends what you want to achieve
<directhex> you can change which domain avahi uses in /etc/avahi/avahi-daemon.conf, i.e. tell it not to use .local, so there's no conflict
<directhex> if a conflict is the issue
<KrisDouglas> Ok changing now
<KrisDouglas> Is there anything (other than avahi-daemon) that i have to restart?
<directhex> not that i can think of
<KrisDouglas> this is the top of my config file, which is still not working =[ http://pastebin.com/Rpp2ESBD
<KrisDouglas> I really need to study networking :)
<HazRPG> heh, the "new" commodore 64 seems to have been released :P
<HazRPG> also, hi all \o
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: afternoon :)
<KrisDouglas> Oh no!
<dogmatic69> o/
<KrisDouglas> BE are withdrawing their bonded broadband servic
<KrisDouglas> e
<HazRPG> KrisDouglas: how come?
<KrisDouglas> They didn't say, but they are pursuing FTTC now so I am going to assume they are "re-aligning" resources
<KrisDouglas> We have a bonded connection from them in stone, absolutely flawless
<daubers> lo
<jacobw> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<dogmatic69> o/
<bigcalm> If I were to buy an album of MP3s from Amazon, would they come DRM free?
<davmor2> bigcalm: no idea why?
<KrisDouglas> I have a windows vista machine in at the moment which doesn't have the driver for the hard drive that the OS is loading off..  yet it boots, logs in to a desktop and tells me such.
<gord> bigcalm, if its listed as mp3, yeah
<gord> KrisDouglas, what makes you think you need a driver for a hard-drive?
<bigcalm> We saw In Bruges last night. The OST is wonderful so I wanted to buy the album. On Amazon, Â£17.79 for the CD, Â£7.99 for the MP3s
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: it'll use some ancient default driver that be optimised
<KrisDouglas> gord, davmor2 it's not loading them :) I do this crap for a living, just thought it was a comical scenario.
<popey> bigcalm: yes, mp3 on amazon is drm free
<KrisDouglas> Seems like the registry has forgotten all these drivers were setup
<davmor2> KrisDouglas: no the registry forgot something I don't believe you ;)
<KrisDouglas> ?
<bigcalm> Oh yay. The Amazon mp3 downloader .deb is for i386
<KrisDouglas> found a registry backup that the system generated, going to load that and see what happens.
<bigcalm> Wonder if wine will help
<directhex> bigcalm, don't use it then.
<KrisDouglas> http://tinyurl.com/ubuntu1012 works
<directhex> bigcalm, use clamz or bamz (provided with banshee)
<davmor2> bigcalm: what version of ubuntu are you using?
<bigcalm> 11.04 64bit
<directhex> amazon's amz files are encrypted. however, every amz file in the world is encrypted with the same key, which can be extracted easily from the amazon mp3 downloader binary. hence replacement downloader tools, like banshee
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I'll give it a go, ta
<directhex> it's seamless if you use the amazon mp3 store directly within banshee, but bamz is a command-line download tool
<davmor2> bigcalm: use banshee, and see if it is cheaper on ubuntumusic store too some are some aren't
<directhex> i pay extra for u1ms. i like the cloud aspect
<gord> course you also have the ability to download from amazon and store the music in u1 ;)
<directhex> i wrote the first u1ms banshee plugin, i'm gonna damn well use it
<davmor2> directhex: I found that the same album on u1ms was a pound cheaper than amazon but on the new releases I find amazon is normally cheaper but hey the 2 are in there so it's worth looking :)
<bigcalm> This is quite good :)
<directhex> i've paid almost 3 quid for a single track on u1ms before
<bigcalm> Couldn't find the album on U1
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Now downloading at 4.3K/s
<bigcalm> So, who got my money for buying MP3s via Banshee?
<directhex> bigcalm, amazon got your money. amazon then pay affiliate revenue to canonical
<directhex> canonical then pay 25% of afiliate revenue from amazon and 7digital to gnome
<davmor2> bigcalm: everyones a winner baby :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<KrisDouglas> That sounds a lot better than the previous arrangement.
<directhex> if you use a banshee PPA, the affiliate revenue from banshee goes to gnome & bypasses canonical
<bigcalm> What if I had installed Banshee from a non-canonical source?
<bigcalm> Ah, there :)
<directhex> affiliate revenue is one or two pennies per track afaik
<bigcalm> Well, considering that I've never given monies to Canonical before now and have been using Ubuntu for years...
<bigcalm> Not too bothered :)
<popey> i donated to tuxpaint last night :D
<bigcalm> popey: who's donating to your printer fund?
<popey> heh
<directhex> i should get off my arse and update my mono PPAs. those are a good source of donations
<MooDoo> :)
<directhex> i could do with a boost to clear the credit cards
<bigcalm> I really shouldn't have bought that album, enjoying it though
<bigcalm> Damn you Amazon for keeping my credit card details so handily
 * daubers just spent all his money on education :(
<bigcalm> And what has that taught you?
<davmor2> don't spend all your money on education
<bigcalm> :D
<directhex> anyone want an updated libgdiplus for natty? only tuppence ha'penny!
<davmor2> directhex: No?
<directhex> darn
 * hamitron directs directhex to "the source"
<hamitron> ;)
<davmor2> may the source be with you
<hamitron> indeed
<hamitron> !natty
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 11.04 (Natty Narwhal) is the current release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/11.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1104
<hamitron> just checking
<daubers> should be getting some video cameras this week \o/
<daubers> Need to go somewhere noisy and do an ambient noise test with them
<oimon> daubers: oggcamp?
<MartijnVdS> vorbiscamp?
<daubers> oimon: That's where they'll be destined, but I want to know if external mics would be appropriate
<oimon> last year's oggcamp video has been written off hasn't it?
<daubers> It may appear at some stage (the professionally filmed bits anyway)
<oimon> i heard someone made an offer to grab the raw footage themselves but didn't gfet far
<daubers> oimon: Either way, this year will be _awesome_
<oimon> is everyone supposed to wear name tags featuring their irc nicks?
<popey> oimon: yes
<popey> (as in video written off)
<oimon> shame, would be nice to get an idea of what it's like
<daubers> oimon: Can help you there!
<daubers> oimon: http://blip.tv/daubers
<oimon> daubers: can you record audio directly from the PA desk?
<daubers> oimon: I'm not so worried about filming the talks. Thats kinda sorted, it's more for wandering around the exhibition bit and stuff
<oimon> ah
<oimon> i guess you could take it to a wtherspoons pub for ambient chatter noise
<daubers> oimon: I was going to go to the local shopping center :)
<ascenseur> hey
<popey> HELLO!
<popey> http://twitpic.com/5zbuza   oops
<ascenseur> popey: what's occurin'? :)
<popey> Heat!
<popey> lots of it
<popey> everywhere
<ascenseur> aha
<BigRedS> oh
<ascenseur> and don't we know it!
<BigRedS> that's going to be annoying
<BigRedS> (not for me, which is nice)
<ascenseur> popey: aha, and yes, that's bad :/ luckily my train ride skips croydon!
<gord> its so hot :( i may melt
<ascenseur> i am melting!
 * popey puts ice in the gord
<daubers> Woot! New air conditioned office ftw
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm now dreading going home after these stories
<popey> best decision ever, buying a fridge/freezer which makes ice
<BigRedS> it's quite pleasant in my air conditioned office
 * daubers imagines popey shovelling ice from the fridge with his new snow shovel
<davmor2> if it keeps up like this I may resort to the aircon unit over the fan :)
<davmor2> popey: that mudslides really bad I mean I turn the picture upside down and it still didn't clear
<davmor2> I forgot to ask who was installing sim city 2000 in dosbox did they do it and did it work?
<MartijnVdS> it works fine
<MartijnVdS> just put the installtion files in some dir
<MartijnVdS> mount that path in dosbox
<MartijnVdS> and run it
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Cool glad it worked :)
<kvarley> Using Quickly how do I add the deb icon? So when the deb is opened in the Software Centre the icon appears?
<popey> Evening all
<StevenR> lo
<gord> dear ubuntu gods, can we just alias les to less already =\
<davmor2> gord: NO! repent sinner for even thinking such a thing
<MartijnVdS> gord: this is what ~/.bashrc is for
<gord> MartijnVdS, no no no
<gord> once you start editing bashrc for your own lazyness, you end up not being able to use anyone elses computer
<MartijnVdS> gord: ln -s it from ~/Ubuntu\ One/.bashrc
<daubers> gord: I used to know someone who's bashrc ran into the thousands of lines
 * bigcalm slaps mc.net - let me log in!
<daubers> mostly of typos to real commands
<MartijnVdS> there's also a shopt for that
<peng42phone> Yawn, repeat (train,  change) until home
<MartijnVdS> cdspell If set, minor errors in the spelling of a directory comâ ponent  in  a  cd command will be corrected.
<MartijnVdS> you could also patch the command-not-found package to automatically RUN the first suggestion if it's already installed
<peng42phone> Ooh dangerous
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: as an option, of course
<MartijnVdS> mr some_file
<MartijnVdS> oops, didn't want rm anyway..
<MartijnVdS> something like that ;)
<peng42phone> Nod
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS, you didn't need it anyway... right? :P
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: probably not
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: especially in the (very) long run
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: (think geological time)
<webpigeon> universe.sh ?
<peng42phone> Still 2 trains from. Home
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: I'm always 2 trains from home when I'm at work :)
<MartijnVdS> On all 3 alternative routes :)
<MartijnVdS> 4
<peng42phone> This is a 4 train route
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MartijnVdS> English trains too
<peng42phone> Eastern English trains at that
<webpigeon> peng42phone, cd ~
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: or just "cd"
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: it defaults to ~
<MartijnVdS> (also, it saves on keyboard wear)
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS, this is true, but with your autocorrect script running, who knows ;)
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: I have "oops.pl" running in irssi
<MartijnVdS> so when I type just "ls" it does /names :)
<MartijnVdS> or "whois" in a query
<peng42phone> Martijnvds: what happens when you type rm in your irc?
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: nothing
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: though linking it to /kick or /kickban would be nice ;)
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: rm = kick, rm -rf = ban :)
<MartijnVdS> peng42phone: and sudo would be some command to nickserv
<MartijnVdS> to get ops
<webpigeon> :P
<webpigeon> sudo <cmd> = nickserv op <cmd> nickserv deop
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon: sudo -s = just nickserv op
<Karti> Hi any Thunderbird gurus on here? Having trouble saving settings
<MartijnVdS> Karti: of what?
<MartijnVdS> Karti: a single account, or "Preferences"?
<Karti> MartijnVdS, Within my settings (all is working by the way) any time I change my junk settings they are "not remembered"
<webpigeon> MartijnVdS++
<MartijnVdS> Karti: did you copy your profile from a different place, or did you create it "new"?
<Karti> All from new. Moved acros from Evolution
<MartijnVdS> Karti: what are you setting the junk setting to?
<Karti> as it looked like thunderbird was going to be the default on 11.10
<MartijnVdS> it is
<Karti> all my accounts point to Global Local settings (I like to save on my HD rather than teh server) and teh junk should go to local settings Junk folder
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea what could cause this
<MartijnVdS> Have you tried looking on the Mozilla wiki, or in bug lists?
<Karti> Ha d a google look and seen some details but all some time ago.
<Karti> I will search teh lists and see if any recent bugs have been accepted
<MartijnVdS> if not, please file one yourself
<Karti> MartijnVdS, Thanks for the assistance
<MartijnVdS> there should be an option to do that in the menu
<Karti> will do
<Karti> :)
<ikonia> popey: I'll be interested in how your flash experiment goes and compare notes
<popey> Had my first video that wont play :D
<ikonia> popey: which site ?
<peng42phone> Right, on the last of the trains for today
<popey> a youtube video
<ikonia> interesting, I had no problems with html5 youtube
<Daviey> popey: I have had no sound on some html5 youtube videos
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVXekyKwQAo&feature=feedu
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pDhG_Q9oBg&feature=feedu
<Daviey> Is it going to be a mistake if i try minecraft?
<popey> heh
<webpigeon_laptop> Daviey, productivity-wise, probably :P
<daubers> Daviey: define "mistake"
<daubers> Also, the /topic should be updated :)
 * webpigeon_laptop hides
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 9th August 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet
<AlanBell> you can run but you can't hide
<webpigeon_laptop> :P
<DJones> Daviey: The mistake would be not trying minecraft :)
<Daviey> hmm...
<oimon1> evening chaps..having a video /dvd issue
<oimon1> adding some m4v files to a dvd that i am combining to a single dvd
<oimon1> first 3 files work fine, then the final file i am adding is reported at 125 fps instead of 25 and the preview in devede is playing wrongly..any ideas?
<ali1234> convert everything into png sequence and wav with ffmpeg first
<ali1234> then specify framerates by hand
<ali1234> put it all back together as a nice editable format
<oimon1> sounds like a lot of work
<ali1234> then fix audio sync manually by skewing in a good video editor
<ali1234> yeah, it's a lot of work
<ali1234> but it pays well :)
 * Daviey ponders 13.95...
<Daviey> anyone wanna buy me a gift certificate? :)
<oimon1> ali1234: you have any experience with a gui editor? i'm a bit noob at video encolding
<ali1234> oimon1: only adobe
<ali1234> has anyone ever tried to buy a kindle off amazon.com? (instead of amazon.co.uk)
<popey> i did
<ali1234> what happened?
<ali1234> see, i have a gift balance on amazon.com
<popey> it arrived in the post shortly after
<ali1234> it's in dollars, cannot be used on .co.uk
<popey> exactly what I had :D
<ali1234> cool
<ikonia> so if you buy one from .com you can't use it to shop at .co.uk ?
<popey> it arrived and i used it via .com for some months
<popey> then they launched in teh uk
<ali1234> ah
<popey> and there is a button on amazon.co.uk and it says "migrate your .com kindle"
<ali1234> well, now you can buy them on .co.uk... .com redirects you
<popey> so its easy to migrate
<ikonia> ahhh, I have that on mine
<ali1234> maybe if i use a proxy
<peng42phone>  Better, back on the right side of the pennines
<hamitron> can you move a .co.uk kindle to .com?
<bigcalm[revo]> I got the DisplayLink graphics adaptor working \o/
<bigcalm[revo]> Only at the expense of the nvidia monitors not working at the same time /o\
<popey> haha
<bigcalm[revo]> :(
<bigcalm[revo]> It's not my night
<brobostigon> good night, sleep well everyone.
<Bomster> tara
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/656714/ my / drive went read only
<AlanBell> doesn't seem to have affected much
<AlanBell> what can I do about it?
<AlanBell> this is an ext4 partition running on an SD card
<dutchie> have you tried turning it off and on again?
<dutchie> (perhaps with a fsck in the middle)
<AlanBell> funnily enough I have
<dutchie> :)
<AlanBell> it did it again, not sure an fsck happened though
<AlanBell> is there a way to force that on boot?
<dutchie> not sure, there it might be a kernel command option
<dutchie> or just boot a live environment
<AlanBell> right now the thing is receiving backups from other computers to an attached disk that is read/write still. I will try some other stuff tomorrow.
<AlanBell> I can take the sd card out and plug it in my laptop to fsck
<AlanBell> all servers should boot from SD cards
<AlanBell> and all SD cards should not do silly faily things like this
<directhex> mount -o remount,rw /
<directhex> you can force a fsck by writing a file called "forcefsck" to the root of a partition
<AlanBell> cool, I will do that tomorrow, thanks directhex
<Bomster> Anyone from the Lakes, spent much time up there? Sorry I'm always spamming this channel with random shit
<StevenR> Bomster: I grew up in that part of the world
<Bomster> me and a few friends want to plan a trip there. Do you think it will be possible to have a start point and an end point, about 3 days walking apart, and just set up our tent at oubs in between?
<StevenR> at pubs?
<Bomster> just somewhere to eat etc
<Bomster> and pitch up
<Bomster> *pubs
<hamitron> will depend on the pub at a guess ;)
<StevenR> how do you intend to get from end back to start?
<StevenR> leave one car at end?
<Bomster> yeah, we were hoping to hitch or taxi back to the car at point A
<StevenR> Bomster: you can't just camp anywhere, but there are campsites.
<StevenR> you might struggle to hitch
<StevenR> you could also do a circular route
<hamitron> or choose locations with a train?
<Bomster> yeah, thats what I was asking really, is there enough places to camp for us to be able to find
<Bomster> yeah, a circular route is probably a batter idea
<StevenR> hamitron: there's not a great deal of train in the lakes
<StevenR> unless you could the L+H
<StevenR> *count
<Bomster> a circular route is no problem
<Bomster> just want to incorporate Scafell Pike and Helvelyn
<Bomster> (soz for bad spelling)
<StevenR> (I assume you're sufficiently comfy with navigatin in fog, have all the appropriate kit, etc)
<Bomster> yeah
<Bomster> Got quite alot of kit, done alot of travelling round Europe
<hamitron> "yeh man, I got my smart phone"
<hamitron> ;)
<Bomster> haha
<Bomster> and that ;)
<StevenR> (I met a tourist once in the middle of the cairngorms once, with a pac-a-mac and some jaffa cakes, and a lonely planet guide to scotland for naviagational aid
<hamitron> :/
<Bomster> hhaha
<hamitron> I don't like jaffa cakes
<StevenR> it's ok. he walked past us that evening on the way out
<hamitron> :/
<StevenR> but utterly ill prepared
<directhex> i went to the lakes once or twice. in-laws used to have a flat there
<directhex> spent my time at the pub.
<Bomster> lol
<hamitron> :D
<Bomster> Sounds goo
<Bomster> *d
<directhex> also went to a wedding
<directhex> and got stuck driving up a delightful local road called "the struggle" during a snowstorm
<Bomster> It's a beautiful place.
<hamitron> can I just ask.....
<Bomster> Yes?
<hamitron> what is wrong with a pac-a-mac?
<hamitron> ;/
<Bomster> lol
 * hamitron doesn't wear pro gear
 * Bomster wears whatever he can find in charity shops.
<hamitron> meh
<StevenR> hamitron: in combination with other kit, nothing. But as his sole protection against the elements on a not-very-nice-day in a reasonably remote valley?
<hamitron> when you get rescued by the fit blondes in mountain rescue, you really gotta make an effort man
<Bomster> haha
<Bomster> It's not Baywatch, lol.
<StevenR> we were worried enough that if we hadn't seen him walk past us on the way out of the mountains, we'd have gone back to find him
<Bomster> StevenR, can you reccomend anyone I could possibly ring for some more info on the area?
<StevenR> he asked if the bothy had a loo... he didn't like the response "Well, there's probably a spade"
<StevenR> Bomster: local TIC?
<StevenR> maybe Keswick or Ambleside
<Bomster> Wow, bothys look awesome
<Bomster> Yeah, will give 'em a call.
<StevenR> more common in Scotland
<StevenR> but it made us laugh alot.
<hamitron> I got a good book on walks in North Yorkshire Moores
<Bomster> looks amazing - http://www.bothy.com/BothyAld0001_25pc.jpg
<hamitron> prob something for lakes too
<StevenR> Bomster: where is that?
<Bomster> just saw it on Google Images
<Bomster> http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=bothy&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1440&bih=802&tbm=isch&tbnid=4X1sM3oZGQXvUM:&imgrefurl=http://www.bothy.com/&docid=kg5wNNomL_MW7M&w=392&h=256&ei=lDI3Tq2HN8SzhAej8qGQAg&zoom=1
<Bomster> In Scotland
<StevenR> Bomster: it looks like one I stayed it
<Bomster> Are they empty inside?
<StevenR> some have like... wooden raised bits
<StevenR> sometimes a bench or a few chairs
<Bomster> and they're free?
<StevenR> yeah. Some ask that you send some money on for upkeep and such
<StevenR> there are societys that maintain
<StevenR> if you ever stay in one, hang any food up
<StevenR> (mice)
<StevenR> I had my rucksack liner chewed through once
<Bomster> Pro tip!
<StevenR> (only a cheap one, so no biggie)
<StevenR> write in the guest book too!
<Bomster> of course!
<StevenR> don't use all the firewood
<Bomster> Do you just kip on the floor?
<Bomster> Alos, do you often meet others in?
<StevenR> some have raised areas, like big 6x3 boxes, others have upper floors, varies so much.
<StevenR> sometimes.
<StevenR> it's considered bad form to take large groups
<StevenR> cos then you fill them
<Bomster> Only 3 of us
<StevenR> no problems then
<StevenR> sweep up when you leave and all that.
<Bomster> they sound brilliant
<Bomster> Are they on most maps?
<Bomster> OS and the like?
<StevenR> the OS maps will show 'em
<StevenR> usually like "Ryvoan Bothy" with little "building here" square
<Bomster> awesome
<Bomster> so you reckon there are only a few in the LAkes?
<StevenR> I don't think there are many
<Bomster> What about in bonnie Scotland?
<StevenR> they're more converted/abandonned steadings in Scotland
<hamitron> but no beer.....
<hamitron> :/
<Bomster> lol
<StevenR> hamitron: you carry in whiskey.
<Bomster> Multi puropse.
<StevenR> or beer, but whiskey is "lighter"
<hamitron> also less filling
<hamitron> ;)
<StevenR> :)
 * hamitron would plan a route with pubs and/or campsites
<Bomster> Beer is a freat recovery drink though
<hamitron> or maybe a farm
<Bomster> yeah, think my mates will want pubs and campsites
<StevenR> Bomster: some are marked as "Refuges" like "Fords of Avon Refuge"... and they're just that. That particular one is a tin shack with a cairn built over it in big rocks to hold it down... with just enough space for about 4 people to sit in discomfort rather than die of exposure
<Bomster> haha, is that a bothy?
<StevenR> ?
<Bomster> Refuge = bothy?
<StevenR> no
<Bomster> kk
<StevenR> a bothy is an old house or steading that's a nice place to live
<StevenR> or at least stay for a night
<Bomster> So Pub>Campsite>Bothy>Refuge, lol?
<Bomster> http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/03/17/2031763_3e142263.jpg
<StevenR> a refuge is a place you hide for a little while because it's better than dieing in the mountains. Like if you had to drag yourself somewhere to wait for the mountain rescue to rock up and stretcher you out.
<hamitron> B&B also
<hamitron> :)
<StevenR> Bomster: is that the one? FoAR ?
<Bomster> yeah
<StevenR> I thought it was (been about 5 years since I went there)
<StevenR> it's at the join of 4 valleys in the cairngorms. It's got no floor, it probably leaks a bit, etc.
<StevenR> it's litterally a refuge
<Bomster> apparantly it regurlaly has a few inches of water
<Bomster> this is supposed to be a good read - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mountain-Days-Bothy-Nights-Luath/dp/0946487154
<StevenR> it's in a hugely accessible, but very exposed position
<Bomster> Can you get OS maps from local libraries?
<StevenR> dunno
<Bomster> Also would you say Lake District > Peak District
<StevenR> not been to the PD enough to say
<Bomster> The Lakes are more mountainous I guess?
<Bomster> Night guys, thanks alot for all the info and all your help. Cheers.
<Bomster> nick Bomster|Away
<Bomster> oooops
<Bomsrer|Away> Def tired.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-02
<daubers> Morning
<bigcalm> Howdy kids :)
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<MooDoo> morning all
<KrisDouglas> Morning
<diplo> morning all
<KrisDouglas> I need to start coming into work at 10 again
<MooDoo> pah! ;)
<JamesTait> Morning all!
<bigcalm> Has emma ever spoken in here?
<AlanBell> dunno, but she asked in -irc to have the ban lifted because she has fixed her connection, which was the reason for the ban
<emma> thanks AlanBell
<gord> popey, to maybe get you re-interested in the screencast project :) http://idratherbewriting.com/2011/07/22/a-few-notes-from-usability-testing-video-tutorials-get-watched-text-gets-skipped/
<bigcalm> AlanBell: fair enough
<bigcalm> emma: welcome back :)
<emma> bigcalm: thanks :)
<bigcalm> gord: I think it depends upon the subject matter. I've seen screen casts when howto text would have been preferred
<gord> bigcalm, yup, because you wern't a new user, you are experienced, experienced people skip videos as the article points out
<oimon> yeah, or maybe the happy medium of screenshots
<gord> you are just after a specific bit of info so you want text you can scan
<bigcalm> gord: ah, I didn't look at the link, just read the URL ;)
<oimon> me too :P
<oimon> i suppose we're the kind who don't watch vids either :)
<popey> gord: nice!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<dwatkins> I trust all is well with people
<brobostigon> other than my eczema getting worse because of this heat, i am fine.
<brobostigon> and you?
<dwatkins> I have the same problem, coincidentally.
<dwatkins> I'm also in an air conditioned office but have the window open due to the heat, despite the rain outside.
<popey> tsk tsk tsk
<popey> our windows dont even open
<brobostigon> :(
<dwatkins> I was surprised to learn that they do here, but very glad - I think the aircon has one sensor for the whole floor.
<bigcalm> It's a bit muggy
 * dwatkins goes to share his thoughts with the facilities department
<dwatkins> yeah bigcalm
<oimon> i don't understand when premises are airconditioned to really cool temperature in warm weather - why not a pleasant medium?
<oimon> went into coop yesterday and it felt like standing inside a freezer
<gord> because someone walked in out of the heat and thought "this is only medium, i need to get cold!" and changed the thermostat
<BigRedS> oimon: 16 Celsius *is* a pleasant medium
<BigRedS> :)
<tola_> gord: heh
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I get similarly annoyed with heating in winter
<bigcalm> Mystic Meg is a silly medium
<oimon> my office is cool today, without air con
<oimon> thats what you get for sitting behind 6 metres of 1960s concrete in a NW facing room
<BigRedS> bigcalm: :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> If one uses xorg.conf, does X then ignore all other config files?
<brobostigon> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xorg   it seems the config files in newer xorg's are alittle different.
<bigcalm> Indeed
<brobostigon> but having fixed config present, will override xorg's auto config, yes.
<bigcalm> I'm wondering how to stop my windows from becoming sluggish to refresh by the afternoon. I fear 'stop using Java' is the biggest saving
<brobostigon> yes, java, flash etc wont help.
<bigcalm> Aha, I don't use flash so that might as well be removed
<bigcalm> Actually, I was wondering if I needed to add any modules to my xorg.conf file if X is ignoring everything else
<brobostigon> not a clue, myself, popey helped me last time i have xorg issues.
<bigcalm> So I'm removing traces of flash from my system. Is libquvi0 required?
<brobostigon> !info libguvi0
<lubotu3> Package libguvi0 does not exist in natty
<brobostigon> !info libguv
<lubotu3> Package libguv does not exist in natty
<bigcalm> It's in the software centre
<bigcalm> !info libquvi0
<lubotu3> libquvi0 (source: libquvi): library for parsing video download links (runtime libraries). In component main, is extra. Version 0.2.11-1 (natty), package size 24 kB, installed size 220 kB
 * bigcalm shrugs
<brobostigon> why didnt it work for me?
<bigcalm> You did g not q
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> ok
<bigcalm> Aww, down side to no flash is I don't get to enjoy Weebl's Stuff
<brobostigon> yes.
<bigcalm> Or Absolute80s :'(
 * BigRedS listens to the Spice Girls for a bit
<MartijnVdS> poor BigRedS
<BigRedS> I did sort-of ask for it
<BigRedS> Actually, I literally asked for it...
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: so, which one is your favourite? :)
<bigcalm> Old
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I've not really been following them, and I suspect they've changed a bit now...
<danfish> morning
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<danfish> BigRedS: I tell you what you want, what you really really want
<BigRedS> danfish: stop right now, thank you very much
<danfish> :D
<Kirrus> danfish: didn't put that one on. I think that would have been a bit too much, even for BigRedS ;) :P
<bigcalm> Started typing in gedit as though it was a terminal. That's not going to work for long
<Kirrus> too used to using vi?
<oracology> bigcalm: I keep a terminal plugin active in gedit for just such occasions :)
<bigcalm> Not really, just what was being displayed looked like a dir listing
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to gauge her mode
<bigcalm> Hullo hullo
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning bigcalm brobostigon
<bigcalm> I can't believe that my 1st thought to fix mp3 playback was to reboot :(
<bigcalm> At least rebooting is quick when you have an SSD
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: did it work though?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Result was what I wanted. Just not the path I would have taken a few years ago
<bigcalm> I've been using windows for too long
 * popey hugs SSD
<MooDoo> yay SSD :)
<bigcalm> The only thing left that stops me from working like I used to is the DisplayLink USB thing not working at the same time as the nvidia card
<bigcalm> 2 monitors is better than 1 though. But was very used to spreading out on 3
<popey> i have gone back to one monitor at home
<bigcalm> In any case, I'm glad I'm using Ubuntu all the time now
<popey> oh, you are?
<bigcalm> I am
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> i thought you were still on windows daytime
 * popey is on xp atm
<popey> â¹
<bigcalm> Nope, got fed up of the random crashes in Windows 7
<daubers> \o/ random crashes
<daubers> bigcalm: That's a feature to make sure you're aware of how you should be working
<bigcalm> Running Ubuntu on my workstation and doing dev was an experiment that seems to be working out ok
<bigcalm> daubers: :)
<bigcalm> TBH, I don't mind what OS I'm using, as long as it works
<daubers> I don't mind as long as it doesn't get in my way
<bigcalm> I've reached the point in life when I realise that computers are just a tool for getting work done
<czajkowski> daubers: oi
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi
<czajkowski> daubers: sorry
<daubers> czajkowski: huh?
<MooDoo> hi czajkowski davmor2
<czajkowski> daubers: bad tab complete
<davmor2> daubers: don't believe her she isn't she's like that :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude
 * daubers changes the music and goes back to wiki editing
<MooDoo> davmor2: how goes it?
<bigcalm> This is confusing. Every video I look at on youtube requires flash to play
<bigcalm> What happened to the HTML5 trial?
<davmor2> bigcalm: are you on the html version of the site?
<jussi> bigcalm: youtube.com/html5
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Odd, thought I was already on the trial
<davmor2> bigcalm: ah had you signed in?
<dwatkins> Perhaps it's per-browser or something.
<gord> it is per-browser
<dwatkins> Wierd, I signed-up on the page jussi cited, but it's still showing me flash videos.
<jussi> yeah it is per browser (its a cookie iirc)
<bigcalm> Gotcha, I feel dumb :)
<AlanBell> Â£60 for answering a few questions https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-August/030943.html
<bigcalm> Minus cost of getting to Canonical
<BigRedS> They're in London. Isn't everybody?
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<dwatkins> I'm not.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: we're not everybody then
<BigRedS> to be fair, I'm not in London, either
<Kirrus> BigRedS: Except for every (other) weekend... :P
<BigRedS> nah, it's more frequent than that :)
<davmor2> I'm not I don't create apps for other platforms either
<AlanBell> quite amused they think world of goo is a little app tbh
<bigcalm> I develop web apps...
<bigcalm> For monies
<AlanBell> I would much rather sit down and write an OpenOffice clone from scratch than World of Goo
<bigcalm> o.O
<gord> actually. world of go kinda is a little ap
<gord> it was first coded as an entry to one of those time limited game development competitions
<gord> iirc it uses a modified version of ODE for its physics
<AlanBell> gosh, didn't know that
<directhex> programmers can't write games. there's far more to a game than the engine
<MartijnVdS> Engine is the easy bit :)
<gord> not all programmers are game developers, but that does no game developers can be programmers
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeah but your insane :D
<directhex> programmers can be game developers, but they can't write games. designers of various types write games. in some cases, the same person may cover multiple roles, i.e. a programmer may also be a designer
<gord> right, but your assertion that programmers can't write games
<gord> is false
<gord> sure they can, they just have to also have the skill set to design the game
<AlanBell> my grip on reality is somewhat tenuous, granted. But getting the blobs to distort and move right plus animating a whole load of blobs keeping track of state and momentum vectors and updating everything every frame just sounds like a nightmare to me
<directhex> i forget, we have a distro filled with super-awesome AAA games by pure programmers
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's why objects rock -- they just keep track of themselves :)
<AlanBell> plus collision detection and stickyness stuff
<MartijnVdS> directhex: nethack!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: collision detection and physics ARE annoying problems, but not as hard as you think once you start to break them down in an event-driven world
<davmor2> directhex, gord: without a programmer the game will exist but it will be heavily patented by Waddingtons I think you'll find and the boxes will generally be much bigger :D
<bigcalm> Put 'nethack' into software centre and it includes 'PuTTY Terminal Emulator' in the list
<AlanBell> it is a world apart from applications that consist of forms with fields on and business processes and workflow stuff
<bigcalm> WEird
<gord> AlanBell, it would take me a weekend to write a world of goo clone, years to clone open office ;)
<directhex> davmor2, there are hundreds of top-level engines available off the shelf. and the existence of "total conversion" mods for existing games shows how little a programmer is needed to generate a "full" game
<hamitron> real men make their own engine ;)
<AlanBell> gord: I guess for me OpenOffice.org has no "magic" in it
<gord> AlanBell, its all smoke and mirrors ;)
<AlanBell> where sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
<BigRedS> AlanBell: I'm told there's lots of black magic, voodoo etc. in it
<davmor2> directhex: who made the engine?  who modded the engine? my point was with no programmer games would still be on boards
<BigRedS> I thought the earlier point was that you needed more than just a programmer?
<gord> directhex, just fyi, those "total conversion" mods, always involve a full C++ knowlege as well as the API's exposed by the game engine and the ability to wield visual C++
<gord> you very much need programmers to make those
<davmor2> BigRedS: Yeap but my point was with out a programmer there would still be no game so they're just as essential
<directhex> C++? how delightfully specific
<gord> what?
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, they're essential. But so is everybody else
<directhex> games use multiple engines. high-level scripting engines are simple enough that the artists do all that themselves.
<AlanBell> BigRedS: I understand everything it does, none of it is advanced, none of it is time critical programming (as in you must move everything on screen before the next vertical blank comes along)
<BigRedS> AlanBell: no, but it's all done very very badly FWIG :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: what about the one man indie game manufacturer?
<BigRedS> davmor2: he's more than just a programmer :)
<hamitron> AlanBell: "none of it is time critical" <-- good job with how long it takes to start ;)
<BigRedS> "I'd like to start a spreadsheet next thursday" *double-clicks OOo icon*
<bigcalm> Humm, that's a point
<AlanBell> not time critical
<bigcalm> Why do spreadsheets take so long to open?
<AlanBell> that is "would be nice if it were faster"
<livingdaylight> FF seems to have triggered an issue and now I cannot bootup into Ubuntu, any longer. I get BOOTMGR is missing on startup
<bigcalm> The app loads quickly. Opening .xlsx is pants slow though
<davmor2> bigcalm: cause you are using OOo and not LO?
<directhex> the programmers aren't the ones deciding on the "game" part, because they'd be crap at it. the designers can build the game on top of the foundation laid by the programmers.
<bigcalm> davmor2: nope, LO is the default in 11.04 which is what I've left it as
<hamitron> is the code IBM has put into OOo going to be in LO?
<AlanBell> hamitron: it isn't in OOo yet, it has just been offered.
<hamitron> yeh, I was assuming it will be
<hamitron> "if" then
<davmor2> bigcalm: SS here opens in a 1-2 seconds here
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> and I don't think that is likely to be code of a higher quality than the rest of it
<bigcalm> davmor2: .xlsx?
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: sounds more fundamental than firefox!
<hamitron> AlanBell: I just read it adds support for better running of macro
<livingdaylight> AlanBell: ok, but firefox seems to have triggered it
<bigcalm> Pondering moving to ODF. It's a business document though, so others need to be able to open it
<davmor2> bigcalm: you didn't say that you said it takes an age to open a spreadsheet you can't go changing the rules half way through the process
<AlanBell> hamitron: yeah, they did some stuff on VB macros, that is probably worth merging (macros need to die in a fire though)
<BigRedS> Well, they can download and install LO/OOo </hippy>
<bigcalm> davmor2: hehe, aww, sorry :)
<hamitron> AlanBell: I agree, it just shuts up some of those complaining for now :)
<popey> livingdaylight: unlikely
<davmor2> bigcalm: on your machine use ODF if you need to send it to a company save a copy in whatever format and ship it out
 * popey creates a 100GB oracle tablespace
<livingdaylight> after not being able to boot up at first I then was, which is strange ini itself. I ran it for a few days using chrome, when FF was launched by clicking on a link sent by twitter using Gwibber system crashed again and this time I can't log in at all
<popey> Time Passess..
<AlanBell> hamitron: the rest of the stuff they have done is some fairly radical UI tinkering (mostly ick imho) and eclipse integration (what were they thinking) and accessibility improvements (great, if they can be merged without the rest)
<davmor2> popey: time still passing...
<popey> yeah, been 17 mins so far
<livingdaylight> I'm bricking it, because I don't want to lose everything I had on this system
<popey> livingdaylight: can you still see the hard disk in the BIOS?
<popey> livingdaylight: can you press shift after the BIOS to trigger the GRUB menu?
<AlanBell> livingdaylight: at a guess the HDD is failing and FF happened to be on a really bad sector or something like that
<livingdaylight> popey: I can check. It is now letting me go to the log in page but after logging in Desktop just flickers and unity bar is not there, just the wallpaper
<popey> livingdaylight: can you boot from a live CD / USB and "see" the hard disk?
<popey> ok
<AlanBell> I need to do a fsck myself actually o/
<popey> this is less disasterous than you made out initially :D
<livingdaylight> AlanBell: that's a thought. Problem definitely materialised ever since I loaded Gwibber and ran FF as a consequence of it being default browser for links
<davmor2> sudo fsck AlanBell system incompatible with irc removing
<bigcalm> davmor2: internal company document shared over dropbox. I'm the only LO user, everybody else is using MS Office
<livingdaylight> popey: it feels disastrous. What worries me is the inconsistent error returns
<davmor2> bigcalm: so import it one save it locally as odf and save the copy in dropbox as xmlx or whatever it is :D
<bigcalm> Ug
<davmor2> bigcalm: you know you love my solutions :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: it's starting to make my brain itch :P
<popey> livingdaylight: you have backups?
<davmor2> bigcalm: only worry when the tick starts
<bigcalm> Time to pause for lunch I think :)
<livingdaylight> popey: no
<popey> livingdaylight: you might want to consider a backup system
<MartijnVdS> backups \o/
<livingdaylight> where in BIOS would I see the hard disc?
<MartijnVdS> depends on the bios
<popey> hang on
<popey> if you're already booted to the desktop then my questions about BIOS dont apply
<popey> my questions related to your initial issue which seems to no longer be affecting you
<livingdaylight> ok, naturally, lol
<livingdaylight> now, how to access contents of installation?
<livingdaylight> i.e. home
<livingdaylight> ?
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: where are you now? booted into the install itself?
<livingdaylight> BigRedS: I was. I tried going booting into classic instead of unity, with pretty much the same results except Desktop icons were not flickering. But when I hit ctl+alt+F1 system went to command line and started shooting long readings of I/0 numeric messages regarding /dev/sda
<livingdaylight> I've now booted up ubuntu live 10.10
<BigRedS> ah
<livingdaylight> Can someone please tell me how I would, in theory at least, mount my partitiions?
<BigRedS> they're probably already mounted
<BigRedS> if the system's booted
<livingdaylight> I see it!
<livingdaylight> now I just need to find an external hd to transfer my files :p
<livingdaylight> Can't access my files due to permission issues. Can soemone tell me how to get this permission so that I can access and transfer files to safety?
<BigRedS> livingdaylight: only if we know who you're logged in as and what the permissions on the files are
<livingdaylight> BigRedS: running live cd, is one not logged in as a default user?
<BigRedS> ah, I thought you were booted up on the hd install
<BigRedS> so, yeah, you are
<BigRedS> it's probably easiest to do everything as root/with sudo
<BigRedS> *carefully*
<BigRedS> rather than try changing the ownership of all the files
<livingdaylight> sudo nautilus didn't seem to work. Didn't see any of my files then
<BigRedS> or you could create a user with a uid matching that which owns the files on the disk, grant that user write access to teh usb disk, then su to that user
<BigRedS> er, there's a switch to pass to nautilus to get just the filemanager bit
<BigRedS> and gksudo is preferred to sudo for gtk apps (like nautilus)
<BigRedS> gksudo nautilus --browser
<BigRedS> should be it
<BigRedS> I think
<BigRedS> That's not tested, though
<andylockran> heya guys
<andylockran> I fancy running a twitter feed of a #hashtag during a live debate.  The hashtag will be of the debate, but I want to be able to audit the comments before they're projected onto the screen.  Any suggestions for software to do this?
<daubers> Is lo still as much of a train crash as it used to be?
<andylockran> lo ?
<daubers> linux outlaws
<andylockran> I've not listened to it much
<andylockran> the debate is for a healthcare charity @ the big 3 party conferences next month
<daubers> andylockran: I've only ever seen generic twitter falls, so not sure which ones allow moderating
<andylockran> yeah.. may have to purchase/write something
<daubers> andylockran: Quick google gives this http://code.google.com/p/guardian-twitterfall/
<AlanBell> andylockran: I used gwibber in the past, hacked in a full screen mode, but no moderation
<AlanBell> andylockran: the tweepy api can do streaming real time updates, I would start with that
<andylockran> Thank you.  The guardian-twitterfall looks interesting
<popey> daubers: have a listen? it's not to everyones tastes, but they have a lot of listeners
<daubers> popey: I used to regularly, had just grabbed the most recent ep to see if it still annoys me or not
<popey> hah
<popey> what annoys you?
<popey> I made the mistake of correcting Fab last night during their live show
<bigcalm> Blame popey
<daubers> It used to be a mix of the general attitude and it went a bit .... wandery and unfocused which was why I stopped listening
<czajkowski> popey: how well did that go down :)
<popey> not well
<popey> he said something about jonos job being PR only
<popey> that he does no developer relations
<popey> I pointed out he has people who do that for him, Jorge and Daniel
<czajkowski> I beg to differ especially this cycle
<popey> meh
<popey> not me you need to convince
<czajkowski> I don't listen to LO
<czajkowski> I dont mind dan
<czajkowski> but find Fab waffles and talks more shite than an old irish man in a pub!
<czajkowski> and that's a lot of waffle and shite
<davmor2> czajkowski: Language
<directhex> everyone's trying my mono backports, i trust?
<davmor2> directhex: NO!
<directhex> SHAME ON YOU
<hamitron> no mono :/
<davmor2> directhex: I don't have backports enabled on this system and the others I work on are a huge mix of oneiric and maverick
<AlanBell> daubers: I think there might be a gap in the podcast market
<directhex> davmor2, it's in my PPA. no official backports are possible for mono
<daubers> AlanBell: Hmmm?
<AlanBell> I am pondering starting one around free software in the workplace
<davmor2> directhex: then definitely not then this is my production system I trust nothing ;)
<daubers> AlanBell: heh, sounds kinda fun
<DJones> daubers: Can you do this with you arduino setup http://www.thelocal.se/35306/20110802/
<daubers> DJones: Building a nuclear reactor is relativley easy. Building a good/safe reactor is moderatley hard. Getting hold of fissionable material is nearly impossible
<DJones> daubers: Sounds like that bloke didn't have much problem getting the materials
<daubers> DJones: I'd suspect they weren't very good. To get enough material from smoke alarms you'd need thousands and thousands of them
<daubers> DJones: tbh, from a news site that allows so much swearing (http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/snuggling/2011/08/01/no-more-babies-on-airplanes/) I'd be very doubtful of their accuracy
<DJones> Heh
<daubers> You could probably build a RTU from smoke alarms, you'd need a couple of thousand of them probably and might generate a watt, but it's not a proper fission reactor
<daubers> RTG sorry not RTU
<daubers> AlanBell: Scarily enough, I have little idea how _big_ enterprise systems work
<popey> define "bug"
<popey> er
<popey> "big"
<livingdaylight> I'm copying files using 'cp' command. Is there a difference between using option 'r' or 'R' when copying a folder such as 'Documents' to another hd?
<daubers> popey: More than about 20 employees across multiple sites
<popey> ah
<daubers> most people I deal with are maybe 15/20 people in one building
<directhex> livingdaylight, no, they're the same thing
<daubers> occasionally a University department, but that's different again
<popey> how about 140K employees?
<daubers> popey: Wouldn't know where to start :) (Other than get in a contractor who has more of a clue)
 * popey wonders how many sites this place has
<popey> hehe
<popey> the "add printer" dialog is amusing here
<popey> you _have_ to filter by country
<daubers> The main thing I've wondered about is how big places like that using Linux cope without a unified directory tool (i.e. controlling menu permissions and the like)
<popey> oh, we dont have linux on the desktop
<daubers> gnome seems to have little ldap integration for that kind of thing
<popey> bazillions of servers, no linux desktops
<popey> and use ldap
<daubers> would be nice to see some ldap integration sneak into unity
<gord> patches welcome :)
<AlanBell> I was talking to a SAP Senior Manager for Deloitte yesterday
<AlanBell> they are kind of interested in whether they should be offering OpenERP services to enterprise yet
 * popey used to work for Deloitte SAP practice
<gord> quick read of ldap wikipedia page shows i'm dumb
<gord> no simple.wikipedia.org page for it either :(
<directhex> gord, ?
<daubers> gord: I've been considering having a go... but have yet to manage to get an ldap server to play nice with linux :)
<directhex> i deployed replicated LDAP for auth, with 400 clients
<popey> what would /usr/bin/slapd be?
<popey> (thats the ldap we use)
<popey> (on linux)
<gord> i jigglied the giggawatts with ldap for a billion new widgets
<popey>  /usr/sbin/slapd even
<daubers> popey: I think it's still slapd
<popey> no, i mean what product would that be
<AlanBell> openLDAP
<popey> thats what we use then
<daubers> gord: OSX server lets you do things like manage what people have in their docks, and set printers and whatnot from a unified directory thing
<gord> don't we call that gsettings?
<daubers> makes rolling out macs easy, "plug in mac, bind to server, reboot"
<daubers> gord: does gsettings let you have a central server controlling it?
<AlanBell> yeah, Ubuntu could be much better at that
<directhex> popey, slapd is openldap's server process
<directhex> bah, stupid dsl
<AlanBell> Ubuntu server seems to have very very little to do with managing Ubuntu clients
<davmor2> directhex: dsl == distintly slow line right?
<gord> daubers, pretty sure it does
<gord> its pretty much the idea
<daubers> AlanBell: Solutions I've been given tend to be "Oh, I have a bash script that does some of that" and it's all pretty patchy
<directhex> davmor2, speed is not the issue.
<Daviey> daubers: I can't work out how to set what is in my local dock, let alone central management :)
<AlanBell> yeah, what I want is that you install Ubuntu server, then when you install Ubuntu clients they find it by avahi or by specifying where it is, then just work
<AlanBell> printers, user accounts, configurations, apt-cache etc.
<oimon> puppet is a good configuration system
<oimon> gets rid of bash scripts
<Daviey> AlanBell: There is a good chance avahi discovery will land this cycle for automated installation.
<davmor2> daubers: you can I think it's called landscape ;)
<daubers> oimon: Still not an optimum solution. You have to muck around with it for each application
<daubers> davmor2: never played with landscape :)
<popey> avahi is no good in the enterprise
<daubers> broadcast domain fail \o/
<AlanBell> great for SMB
<popey> good for single site, single network yes
<Daviey> popey: agreed.. spanning multiple subnets doesn't work that well :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Not if you have a network that crosses networks
<davmor2> AlanBell: there is a difference between good and easy :)
<directhex> i am gonna cook so much tasty food next week, omgs!
<popey> daubers = good
<popey> davmor2 = easy
<daubers> Daviey: How would that work then? Avahi installation stuff?
<davmor2> popey: Ha I'll have you know I resemble that comment
<Daviey> daubers: I haven't touched the avahi part of it yet, but that shouldn't be too much of a challenge
<Daviey> The idea is to enroll a new server with the provisioning server
<AlanBell> so with avahi, you take your laptop, go to another office in the group, plug in and connect to the local server and pick up all the local settings
<Daviey> daubers: The hardest part is auth.
<daubers> AlanBell: Avahi only works within the local broadcast domain
<AlanBell> daubers: yes, which is great
<daubers> AlanBell: Not if you're in a building which has a different subnet on each floor (like some Uni's I've been into)
<daubers> Daviey: So it would grab settings and stuff from the provisioning server?
<AlanBell> if you don't have a server in each subnet it is an issue
<Daviey> daubers: in principle, you can have a proxy agent.. but it's just fugly.
<AlanBell> but like I said, it would be nice if it just works with avahi, or specify where your server is if avahi doesn't work for you
<Daviey> daubers: well make it 'aware' on the server, for later options
<gord> if something doesn't "just work" on ubuntu, its a bug :)
<daubers> Daviey: A small step forwards then :)
 * davmor2 files a bug against gord
 * popey files a bug against davmor2 
<Daviey> daubers: I haven't finished the enrollment tool yet.. but as it stands, http://pb.daviey.com/Rnip/
<davmor2> popey: I only use windows to test ubuntu that doesn't count :P
<gord> latest ubuntu upgrade stopped my wireless keyboard from working :(
 * davmor2 counters popey's bug with several against popey :D
 * popey points davmor2 at https://bugs.launchpad.net/popey/+filebug
<Daviey> davmor2: you want this link, i think https://bugs.launchpad.net/popey/+filebug
<Daviey> bah
<popey> :D
<davmor2> hahahaha!
<Daviey> popey: it does seem you are currently 'bug free'
<daubers> Daviey: Will you store the settings in some kind of db, or flatfile?
<Daviey> daubers: 'settings' ?
<daubers> Daviey: All the bumpf you pass down to the new server?
<daubers> Or you will be passing down eventually
<Daviey> daubers: Well, there is some data stored in the server, via cobbler
<Daviey> for deployment, it's ensemble enabled :)
<Daviey> the initial deploy is supposed to be quite dumb
<Daviey> providing a reasonably stock installation.
<Daviey> ensemble then puts the real payload on there..
<Daviey> Talking about this hurts, it's reminding me of my TODO's.
<davmor2> popey: there's one on there from your wife something about excessive time wasted on minecraft ;)
<AlanBell> ensemble /o\
<Daviey> An Austrialian celebrating
<BigRedS> cPanel's MySQL-interference interface, is it PHPMyAdmin?
 * daubers is failing in a sea of buzzwords while trying to find out what ensemble actually _does_
<popey> heheh
<popey> Canonical have screwed the marketing of ensemble up somewhat
<popey> I know a few geeks who don't "get" it
<gord> i had it explained to me as "apt get for building services"
<AlanBell> it is a way of using 7 VMs when one will do
<MartijnVdS> gord: "building services", like janitors?
<gord> :)
<Daviey> AlanBell: Interesting defintion, was that based on your personal experience?
<AlanBell> Daviey: from watching the videos
<popey> thats the scenario people pull out Daviey
<AlanBell> so lets install a wordpress blog . . .
<popey> throw up a wp install it pulls in mysql, apache etc, on lots of boxes
<daubers> Hmmm.. this doesn't seem to fit into what I see as missing at all. This seems more orchestrated towards people who run on demand services that might need another server quickly. The ldap stuff is more for someone running a couple of offices who needs to be able to get a new desktop working with all the existing stuff relativley quickly
<popey> which is mental
<Daviey> I agree the communication has sucked on current development, but it's not released yet.
<popey> thats no excuse
<Daviey> Seems somewhat harsh to give it a bashing, based on not using it and in my mind, spread FUD.
<hamitron> so it is good for implimenting services that need a lot of resources due to high load?
<daubers> Daviey: Do a talk on it at Oggcamp and explain what it actually _does_
<AlanBell> Daviey: I don't know of any use-case for it
<popey> who's bashing ensemble?
<Daviey> daubers: That is not a bad idea.. the concern i have is that i *might* not be able to attend this time.
<daubers> the lower the density of buzzwords compared to density the more chance of cake :)
<popey> \o/ cake
<daubers> Daviey: Get a lackey to do it?
 * Daviey ponders
<Mez> Anyone know how to switch back to sane scrollbars?  Seems that the ickle farty things don't work in Java
<andylockran> sudo apt-get remove overlay-scrollbar liboverlay-scrollbar-0.1-0
<andylockran> No reboot is required. Though you will have to close and re-open applications to notice the change.
<andylockran> If you decide later you want the overlay scrollbars back, simply reinstall the libraries
<hamitron> andylockran: you remembered that off the top of your head? ;)
<Mez> Thanks andylockran ... this is only so I can actually show you the mindmap of the backup stuff XD
<andylockran> Awesome.
<Mez> hamitron: I presume it's in his r-search
<andylockran> want me to do it then, rather than break your machine?
<Mez> Nah - I sorta need xmind anyways
<daubers> Mez: You can disable it per app
<Mez> daubers: how?
<daubers> Mez: Can't remember :) Hang on
<andylockran> xmind --disable-funky-scrolling
<andylockran> unrecognised option '--disable-funky-scrolling'
<Mez> hamitron: I presume it's in his r-searchhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/36448/is-there-a-way-to-blacklist-an-individual-application-from-using-overlay-scrollba
<daubers> Mez: LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0
<andylockran> export LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0
<daubers> or just LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 some_program
<andylockran> correct
<Daviey> Mez: Might be a good idea to raise a bug if it's not working correctly for you.
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> A dubstep mix of House of Pain's Jump Around
<bigcalm> I <3 Solid Steel for bringing me weird stuff :)
<andylockran> Daviey: I'm sure a bug will be raised if we can't get it to work.
<Daviey> andylockran: I mean, the original issue as to why Mez needs to disable it, rather than the disabling itself
<andylockran> Daviey: ah, I get ye.
<andylockran> I'll test it now.
<popey> not really missing flash yet
<andylockran> popey: do you use chrome?
 * Daviey has been meaning to try http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/lightspark
<popey> andylockran: i do
<livingdaylight> file names with spaces in between have their spaces connected with a backslash, but my logitech ex100 keyboard doesn't seem to have a backslash key? I do see it next to the 'z' where it usually is but with or without shift key it is not giving me backslash - huh?
<BigRedS> US keymap?
<BigRedS> try, er, shift+'
<BigRedS> I think
<DJones> Or use tab completion, that should take account of the spaces as well
<livingdaylight> DJones: I have two files starting with 'A' so 'A' + tab completion isn't working.
<BigRedS> it should tab-complete as far as the names are the same, where you can then start typing again
<BigRedS> or, yeah, shift + (something near the ' key) will do a backslash on a us keyboard
<popey> blimey, http://popey.com/minecraft/day/#/-743/64/892/-7/mcmapLighting
<popey> getting bigger â¨
<bigcalm> Hope your server is happy :)
<popey> heh
<DJones> What is that going to be?
<DJones> And who's building it?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/657220/
<popey> seems okay
<andylockran> :)
<Daviey> popey: it is quite the ram hog. :/
<BigRedS> it's java, that's a feature
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> popey: looking at g+: do you no longer require my Linksys box?
<bigcalm> Spooky. I'm using 6% of my gmail and google apps mail accounts
<popey> bigcalm: not sure yet
<bigcalm> popey: ok. Let me know either way by the 12th :)
<popey> wilco!
<andylockran> :)
<AlanBell> yay proposal 1 of 4 accepted \o/
<daubers> AlanBell: business?
<AlanBell> yeah, openERP
<daubers> Ah, ok
<rml_home> dd
<AlanBell> hi rml_home
<rml_home> window feck up :)
<andylockran> !family
<AlanBell> feck is a perfectly polite word
<AlanBell> or so czajkowski says
<AlanBell> and I am not going to argue
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<AlanBell> the bot is working though
<bigcalm> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<bigcalm> !swearing
<bigcalm> !swearr
<bigcalm> !swear
<bigcalm> 2 out of many is ok :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: wimp, although she is closer to you than me :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: someone fighting with czajkowski ?
<BigRedS> Oh great. If I'd like just three lines in only this email non-wrapped, I have to close the composition window, faff with about:config, send the mail, then unfaff about:config....
<czajkowski> AlanBell: it is
<davmor2> MooDoo: nah I'm trying to goad AlanBell into it :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: she'd kill him
<davmor2> czajkowski: changing u for e and saying it's a good clean Irish Word is a lie ;)
<hamitron> nobody can understand what the Irish say anyway? ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you need to have some alcohol in your blood first
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: only way to make the language pronounceable
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> same with Scottish really
<shauno> pft.  a dutchman claiming scottish isn't pronouncable?  pot kettle mate :p
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Dutch is perfectly pronounceable
<shauno> lies!
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you should try it some time
<shauno> heh, I have.  I got laughed at :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: try some other place than a coffee shop. ;)
<shauno> heh, that was on vent
<MartijnVdS> vent?
<shauno> like mumble, but hates freedom
<MartijnVdS> (ah)
<MartijnVdS> Does (re)starting unity on oneiric take ~30s for everyone else?
<MartijnVdS> Or is it just me?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no idea I've not needed to restart unity
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: and on login?
<ali1234> does it even work on nvidia?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: on no login is rapid, and then maybe 2-3 seconds tops
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: it's 20-30s here, on login
<MartijnVdS> intel i3, but that shouldn't matter imho
<MartijnVdS> it didn't on natty
<gord> MartijnVdS, what gpu?
<MartijnVdS> gord: [   209.731] (II) intel(0): Integrated Graphics Chipset: Intel(R) Clarkdale
<MartijnVdS> (pre-SandyBridge i3)
<gord> hrm should be fine, something funky is going on
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: try a livecd and see how long that takes
<MartijnVdS> gord: anything I can do to determine what's going on?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: that'll take ages because of the CD slowness :)
<gord> i had weirdness with huge login times when i first upgraded to O, never figured out the source but it eventually figured itself out
<MartijnVdS> live USB though.. *burning*
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: if the installed version is slower then there is an issue
<gord> MartijnVdS, without trying a previous version of unity, its hard to tell
<MartijnVdS> I just did a unity --reset and that didn't help
<gord> trying a guest session might help
<MartijnVdS> gord: the natty version is fine, is that previous enough? :)
<gord> too previous :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: ah, good idea. Will do that.
<MartijnVdS> Guest session is fine
<MartijnVdS> I've had more problems with this install
<MartijnVdS> I think I might have broken something in early oneiric
<gord> huh, looking at humblebundle.com - linux has taken in more payment than mac :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: total or per transaction?
<gord> i would guestimate about half the number of payments
<gord> MartijnVdS, total
<MartijnVdS> Linux nerds want games :)
<gord> sad to see how little windows users pay
<MartijnVdS> hah, MtGox and Notch are top contributors
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I can recommend waiting till thursday and doing a fresh install of oneiric if that helps?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I was considering getting an SSD anyway, can't get that before Thursday
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: so.. yeah, that sounds like a good idea
<MartijnVdS> So next subject.. which SSDs are horrible, which ones aren't? popey? :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: alpha 3 will be out then with it's own list of issues but better than the one your having :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I'm used to Ubuntu alphas (having used them since ~hoary hedgehog ;))
<popey> i have had no issues with any of mine
<MartijnVdS> so.. the Intel 510 SSD (120GB) should be good, I guess
<MartijnVdS> SATA-600
<davmor2> popey: which ones have you had?
<popey> davmor2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/657414/
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: ^ those ones popey has had no issues with :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: thanks, popey :P
<MartijnVdS> Wow @ Corsair specs
<MartijnVdS> 550MB/s read
<MartijnVdS> 520 write
 * hamitron waits for SATA1200
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: you can get PCI-E-connected SSDs now
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: so you can skip the wait
<hamitron> true
<hamitron> I thought you could before?
<hamitron> but I'm not even onto any SSD yet
<hamitron> I'm looking forward to motherboards for the average desktop, that will handle more RAM
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: how much?
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> 128Gb
<hamitron> maybe more
<hamitron> nearly there
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> my new comp build will handle 16Gb, which is enough to play with for now
<MartijnVdS> you think? :)
<hamitron> just
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> the 16Gb I think will be plenty, 8Gb for the OS, 8Gb for ram
<hamitron> but by the time it is the norm all this high speed file stuff, there may be some memory on the motherboard specially for this?
 * hamitron shrugs
<MartijnVdS> why 8GB OS?
<MartijnVdS> 2GB OS, 14G disk-cache :)
<hamitron> well, 8Gb RAM is needed for application space
<hamitron> the other 8Gb I think will be fine for the OS and disk-cache
<MartijnVdS> woop, Intel 510 SSD ordered
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> main thing putting me off SSD, is I'm unsure about the life
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: if you use the "discard" mount option to enable TRIM, it should be fine
<MartijnVdS> see the 'mount' manpage
<hamitron> I'd just be happier if they used the same IC as my RAM
<hamitron> there are a few devices that allow use of ram like that
<hamitron> but they cost more than they really should
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> ramdisks
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> 32Gb would make me happy
<MartijnVdS> get a server board for your desktop :)
<MartijnVdS> put 64G in it
<MartijnVdS> use 32G as a ramdisk
<hamitron> certainly an opton
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> option
<hamitron> but not now I've got my motherboard
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> tbh, I never run huge OS
<directhex> i want an ssd, but i'm saving money right now
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for Ivy Bridge to be released before buying something new
<directhex> can't afford such a frivolous thing
<directhex> i'll keep ssds on my amazon wishlist though
<hamitron> so 16Gb RAM is probably plenty for me
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> wishlists
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> the newer desktop boards support 32Gb
<hamitron> :-o
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: guess why I'm waiting for IB
<hamitron> but in all seriousness, I think I could live with 16Gb
<hamitron> 6 months ago I had only 2Gb
<hamitron> MartijnVdS: more? ;)
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: USB3, more RAM possibilities, SATA600, ... :)
<hamitron> I got USB3 and SATA600 (not on the same comp)
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> haha
<MartijnVdS> that last part is what I'm trying to prevent
<hamitron> I figured I only need USB3 on my small media comp
<MartijnVdS> I don't really _need_ u3 at all
<hamitron> and SATA600 will be for the SSD for my gaming rig
<MartijnVdS> SATA600 for SSD will be rocking
<hamitron> in raid 0
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> RAID0 is _very_ scary
<hamitron> note: a gaming rig
<hamitron> :D
<directhex> hamitron: i've had a few hundred quid of stuff from my list before now. plus a few hundred quid via paypal
<hamitron> I shall continue to do normal work on my sata300
<MartijnVdS> directhex: just for packaging banshee? :)
<hamitron> and the gaming rig shall have to claim the title of haminator on my network
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> MartijnVdS: general mono packaging things, largely my LTS backports repo
<MartijnVdS> directhex: cool
 * MartijnVdS wishes Banshee was a bit less crashy. Maybe the reinstall will fix it. I hope.
<directhex> MartijnVdS: oneiric?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yes
<directhex> MartijnVdS: downgrade libsoundtouch
<MartijnVdS> where do I get an old version?
<directhex> packages.ubuntu.com
<MartijnVdS> I have 1.6.0-2 installed.. or available
<directhex> 1.6 broke all BPM detection in gstreamer
<directhex> which is where banshee is going to be crashing
<MartijnVdS> I don't have BPM detection enabled
<directhex> doesn't matter afaik. you could delete the BPM plugin too
<MartijnVdS> the natty version should be fine, I guess?
<directhex> yeah
<MartijnVdS> startup is faster
<daubers> lo
<MartijnVdS> hi daubersman
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://i.imgur.com/DUhZo.png
<MartijnVdS> gord: (sorry :))
<BigRedS> haha
<bigcalm> Heh
<aquarius> Anybody got any decent recommendations for a fanless Ubuntu desktop PC with a proper disc (i.e., not 8GB of storage or anything) capable of running natty with Unity, for sale in the UK (or shippable thereof) for a couple of hundred quid?
<daubers> aquarius: Revo?
 * BigRedS wonders if a revo would do
<daubers> Ah, sorry, that does have a little fdan in it
 * BigRedS also types slowly
<aquarius> the revo's a possibility.
<aquarius> I was seeing if there were recommendations for others :)
<aquarius> (and can the revo run proper unity?)
<daubers> no idea, the ions pretty good
<daubers> Mines been press ganged as a print server/ldap server, so not really sure :)
<bigcalm> aquarius: I recomend the Revo as well
<daubers> popey probably has one running something with a gui
<bigcalm> I have the 3600, very happy with it
<aquarius> also I'm not sure you can *buy* the original revo any more, can you? You can only ge tthe flashy new one which is not Â£150
<aquarius> popey, ping. :)
<bigcalm> It runs as my web dev server as well
<aquarius> yeah, my dad's already got one of the original revos, and it's great; am now looking for a desktop machine for him (the revo is plugged into the telly). Another revo would be fine, except that the new one's aobut Â£350, which is a bit steep. I liked the Â£150 price on the original :)
 * daubers totters off to bed
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Find somebody with a surplus ;)
<bigcalm> aquarius: http://www.okobe.co.uk/ws/product/Acer+AspireRevo+R3600+Nettop+Computer+Intel+Atom+230+1.6GHz+1GB+RAM+DDR2+SDRAM+160GB+HDD+with+Linux/1000016889?ref=1q4bs
<bigcalm> Ugly arse URL
<bigcalm> Out of stock, arse
<bigcalm> Why can't it just display that without having to click a link to find out?
<aquarius> yeah, I can't find it in stock at a decent price anywhere :)
<hamitron> aquarius: http://www.ebuyer.com/267867-emachine-er1401-desktop-pt-nbzec-004
<hamitron> I've been tempted, not sure how good it is
<aquarius> that's damned cheap.
<hamitron> yeh
<aquarius> hamitron, is that a recommendation?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> just highlighting an offer I saw
<hamitron> I've never used one
<hamitron> ;)
<aquarius> woo, it's *certified* http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201006-5930
<hamitron> I'm not sure how good it is though :/
<aquarius> well... dual core athlon, 2GB RAM, and a 250gb drive. is it fanless?
<hamitron> I know as much as you
<hamitron> :)
<aquarius> :-)
<aquarius> tempted to buy one for myself and give dad my revo, which I *know* works :P
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Could do worse
<hamitron> I know my parents want 2 small comps for playing music from the server
<hamitron> that is why I showed interest
<bigcalm> aquarius: I've got a Viglen MPC-L doing bugger all you can have if you want :P
<aquarius> bigcalm, o rly? :)
<aquarius> new plan: buy no hardware ever again, just live on bigcalm spares ;)
<bigcalm> aquarius: I was being silly, but it really is doing nothing, so you are welcome to play with it :)
<aquarius> would it be good enough to be a desktop pc for natty?
<bigcalm> Not in the slightest
 * aquarius laughs
<aquarius> never mind then :)
<bigcalm> Hence the :P
<hamitron> what cpu?
<bigcalm> I blame UUPC for a lot of my impulse purchases
<aquarius> I am most interested in this thing hamitron mentioned
<bigcalm> hamitron: http://www.viglen.co.uk/viglen/Products_Services/Product_Range/Product_file.aspx?eCode=XUBUMPCL&Type_Info=Description&Type=Desktops
<hamitron> how much you want for it?
<hamitron> probably faster than a load of my junk :/
<bigcalm> Are you serious?
<hamitron> yeh
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> I paid just over 100 quid when it was released and mentioned on the podcast
<bigcalm> Are you going to oggcamp?
<hamitron> no :/
<bigcalm> Humm
<hamitron> can't really go spending that sorta money either
<hamitron> haha
<bigcalm> Do you know anybody near you who is near you?
<bigcalm> I wouldn't want what I paid for it
<bigcalm> Was thinking in the region of 35 quid
<hamitron> I know plenty of people near me who are near me
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> Do you know anybody going who is near you
<hamitron> no :/
<bigcalm> Damn this red wine :P
<hamitron> haha
<bigcalm> Where are you?
<hamitron> East Yorkshire
<hamitron> you'd have to give a price with postage I think
<hamitron> :/
<bigcalm> If you really are serious about it (look at the specs of the box), then I'll look into it
<hamitron> I'm trying to find a value atm
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> my googling skills are failing me
<hamitron> 400mhz amd geode
<hamitron> 512mb ram
<bigcalm> Good innit? :)
<hamitron> my latest toy is only a SIS 300mhz cpu with 64mb ram ;)
<hamitron> so yeh
<hamitron> :D
<bigcalm> You have me in shock
<hamitron> got it on boffer
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> that VXL Percio
<hamitron> bigcalm: I've had to drop ubuntu from my plans, so the i586 does not bother me
<bigcalm> hamitron: I have Ubuntu server on my Viglen MPC-L
<hamitron> 10.04 I assume?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> Possibly
<bigcalm> It's been a while
<bigcalm> !LTS
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions of Ubuntu will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server. The current LTS version of Ubuntu is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04)
<hamitron> well, I think 10.04 is the last to run on i586 sadly
<bigcalm> I've upgraded my parents' box to 10.04.3
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I'm really cut up about it
<bigcalm> So, possibly 9.10 on the one I have
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> does pop-ey run one?
<bigcalm> I think he has a couple or so and they are gathering dust now
<bigcalm> It really isn't all that great
<hamitron> well, I still use a p120 with 24Mb ram
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> so I can live with less power
<hamitron> I do intend to use nothing below 300mhz by the end of this year though
<hamitron> can get one newly delivered for Â£72
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> wish I'd seen these before I got something with a SIS cpu
<bigcalm> I'm tempted to see if I can put 10.04 on this one now before shifting it. I'll have to blank the hdd anyway
<bigcalm> Do you want server or gui on it?
<hamitron> I won't be using ubuntu on it tbh
<bigcalm> I see
<hamitron> it looks underspeced for proper use with such a big OS
<hamitron> I'm sure it can run, just not as well as other things
 * hamitron digs himself out of hole in a ubuntu channel
<bigcalm> It came with a linux distro on it, but cannie remember which one
<hamitron> Xubuntu according to website
<hamitron> http://www.viglen.co.uk/webmail/5star-offers.html
<bigcalm> Haha, they recommend putting windows 7 on it
<bigcalm> That's funny
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> what do i need to fix it to the back of a monitor?
<bigcalm> A VESA mount
<bigcalm> Though I've never used one, so my info stops there
<popey> Evening all!
<bigcalm> Ah! It's a popey
<hamitron> :)
 * hamitron grumbles at the price of Vesa mount arms
<hamitron> get a monitor for the same price
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but yeh, bigcalm, I am interested (for the right price)
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> if you are ofc
<hamitron> cuz if I was you, I'd probably keep it for the amount of money it is. but I am a bit crazy when it comes to collecting junk and toys
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> hamitron: I have far too much that is doing nothing. Need to make space for new kit ;)
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> if I like it, will phone them guys up and see if I can buy 2 more
<hamitron> if can't get more, just a nice toy (for me) :D
<bigcalm> What would you do with 3?
<hamitron> have them in 3 different rooms
<hamitron> jukebox style
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> Do you have a USB CDrom drive or USB memory stick?
<hamitron> got a memory stick
<bigcalm> I would suggest installing from a USB CDrom drive as grub likes to install itself on the USB memory stick
<hamitron> does it not support PXE?
<bigcalm> ?
<hamitron> netbooting
<bigcalm> No idea. Not something I've looked into
<hamitron> not an issue if it doesn't
<hamitron> but that is how I boot all my installs
<hamitron> that or floppy
<hamitron> ;)
<Hornet-> anyone active who's on virgin media?
<popey> Hornet: yup, me
<Hornet> allo popey
<Hornet> por favor senor, ping www.horriblesubs.org and www.nyaa.eu ?
<Hornet> not sure if VM's doing funny business
<popey> its not vm
<popey> I cant get to it from my server in london
<Hornet> well, people in CA, and AUS, can access them both
<Hornet> but fair enough
<popey> dns doesnt resolve
<directhex> nothing for me on Be
<Hornet> possibly DNS or routing fun and games then
<Hornet> hrm
<directhex> oh, nyaa.eu works
<directhex> nothing for horriblesubs
<directhex> tenga are "stress toys" now?
 * Hornet adblocks
<Hornet> it's a common euphamism
<Hornet> along with hello kitty 'massagers'
<Hornet> ah well
<Hornet> cheers sirs
<bigcalm> I think it might be time to find some sleep
<bigcalm> Toodles :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-03
<AlanBell> morning all
<brobostigon> morning AlanBell
<livingdaylight> anyone watch the piece still currently playing on BBC1 about copyright?
<daubers> Morning
<livingdaylight> morning
<livingdaylight> very quiet this morning
<livingdaylight> It was yesterday suggested that my hd could be dying. Hence I backed up and transferred my files to saftey. However, before simply binning my 500gb hd I thought I'd run the defect detector on the live cd and it came back with zero  errors? Is this a reliable test to tell me about the health of the hd?
<MartijnVdS> "defect detector"?
<MartijnVdS> do you mean the SMART long test in the Disk Utility (palimpsest)
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS: on the live cd there is a Memory test and test for hd, no?
<livingdaylight> I forget what it's called exactly, but it checks the hd for defects afaik.
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: As far as I know that  checks the CD for defects
<livingdaylight> ahhh, okay,.... that's not what I need, lol
<livingdaylight> How can I test the disc before chucking it in the bin?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: start the live environment, then start the disk utility, and have it do a "Long" or "Extended" test
<livingdaylight> not the disc, the hard drive, sorrry
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: ^^
 * livingdaylight needs a coffee
<daubers> livingdaylight: SMART is not necessarily a good indicator of disk health :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: SMART saying your disk is bad _is_ a good indicator
<MartijnVdS> daubers: SMART saying your disk is good isn't :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Well.. sometimes. I've seen a couple of disks flip from "bad" to "good" within a few minutes
<daubers> stupid smart
<livingdaylight> so, SMART can say the disc is good but it is still in fact bad?
<daubers> livingdaylight: Yes, sometimes
<MartijnVdS> daubers: sure, but once you get a "bad" signal, you replace the disk
<livingdaylight> not very smart :s
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Assuming the disk hasn't already just failed before it's gone to a "bad" state
<livingdaylight> Either my hd died or Ubuntu had a meltdown for the first time  in all the years that I've been using it.
<daubers> livingdaylight: use the tool described above and have a look, SMART may tell you the disk is bad, it may not :)
<livingdaylight> is there another, more reliable test?
<daubers> livingdaylight: As rubbish as SMART is, it's the best tool for this kind of thing at the moment
<livingdaylight> ok
<livingdaylight> I'd rather not chuck a 500gb hd, on a whim
<livingdaylight> I'm probably just in denial still about its death
<livingdaylight> a little traumatic
<daubers> livingdaylight: You get used to them after a while
<MooDoo> hello all
<BigRedS> G'morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<daubers> o/
<livingdaylight> not sure I found and used SMART in Disc Utility or not. But there are some bad sectors. Does that make an entire hd unusable?
<BigRedS> nah, that's normal
<BigRedS> but a lot of bad sectors, or a high rate of allocating bad sectors, suggests it's going to die soon
<BigRedS> some, though, not so bad. Zero is better, though
<gord> some bad sectors isn't that normal ;)
<gord> you'll want to run bad blocks on the drive at least to stop the bad sectors from being used
 * BigRedS might just have low standards and good backups...
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<livingdaylight2> Where /how do I run bad blocks?
<livingdaylight2> Using irc client on smart phone for the first time
<livingdaylight2> I is like :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: drives remap bad sectors. As soon as it runs out of remapping sectors, I replace the disk usually
<gord> MartijnVdS, in my experience, not automatically
<MartijnVdS> gord: I'm paranoid ;)
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> it's biggie calms :P
<MooDoo> morning pah!
<livingdaylight2> There is a poem called fish by Mary Ann Hoberman and I can't read it because of"rights issues" as I'm outside of the usa - ridiculous
<AlanBell> fibre to the cabinet about to be installed \o/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: \o/
<MooDoo> o/
<dogmatic69> livingdaylight2: proxy?
<gord> have to use the stupid revo keyboard today because ubuntu forgot how to talk to my wireless one :(
<livingdaylight2> Auto complete difficult on Android orc, with swype anyway.
<selinuxium> mornign all   o/
<shauno> oh that's just typical.  an hour after I wipe my phone, gmail decides it's "that time of the month" and asks me to use the authenticator thingie
<MooDoo> lol
<selinuxium> Tried to install Moneydance from their deb. It come up with the warning as described in the following link. http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/switching-to-moneydance-from-microsoft-money/1370-installing-deb-on-ubuntu  Is it just me or is just using gdebi to circumnavigate the warning not the way forward...
<shauno> hopefully he meant what he said about looking into fixing it
<shauno> but yeah.  teaching people to ignore spurious warnings isn't cool
<popey> Good morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<bigcalm> Good moaning
<MartijnVdS> popey: I ordered my SSD -- http://www.anandtech.com/show/4202/the-intel-ssd-510-review
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: putting ubuntu on it?
<gord> trying to type on this backup keyboard is hard =\ i keep taking screenshots or paging down or opening menus... its basically like if mr bean used a computer
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Yes (and I know about the "discard" mount option)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: discard what?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i've not used that with my ssd
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: it tells the SSD about which regions are "empty" so it can use its internal wear-leveling more efficiently
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: i.e. when you delete files
<MartijnVdS> which means it should (note: should) last longer
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: ok, but readin around that was only needed in 10.10, does 11.04 already have this?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: in oneiric, in the "mount" manual page, it says it's disabled by default
<MooDoo> ah
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: on natty it's not even in the manual
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I thought that was dealt with automagically by TRIM these days?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I thought so, but not according to that manpage
<daubers> odd
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM#Discard_parameter_in_Linux
<MooDoo> i don't think it's anything to worry about, my ssd works very well :D
<MartijnVdS> but will it in a few years? :)
<MooDoo> ;)
<MooDoo> well guess what i'm doing when i get home :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Paul Mellors] Vmware + NAS - http://paulmellors.blogspot.com/2011/08/vmware-nas.html
<MooDoo> oh rats, that wasn't supposed to go on the planet....grrrr post tags
<bigcalm> Oooo, finally a working version of android for the Joggler?
<livingdaylight2> Aloha
<MooDoo> hi livingdaylight2
<livingdaylight2> Hi
<livingdaylight2> Swype doesn't have a tab key
<BigRedS> livingdaylight2: is this in a terminal emulator?
<BigRedS> which one are you using? If you tap the screen just above teh keyboard in irssi it gives some buttons for other keys
<BigRedS> I think tab's in there
 * selinuxium still loving my Galaxy S II
<bigcalm> Andchat is my irc client of choice
<BigRedS> er, not irssi, connectbot
<BigRedS> I just use 'irssi connectbot' so I forget it's not called irssi
<livingdaylight2> Using Yaaic and swype
<livingdaylight2> Maybe using the wrong client then, or keyboard :)
<bigcalm> In andchat, pressing search after a few letters will do nick autocomplete
<bigcalm> Very handy
<andylockran> ok, this is saner
 * andylockran was in #ubuntu and all sorts of silly stuff was happening there
<selinuxium> bigcalm, Android? Joggler? where?  :)
<bigcalm> selinuxium: https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/98679623663095808
<popey> :D
<popey> works really nicely
<bigcalm> It might be what gets me to turn my Joggler back on
<popey> :D
<livingdaylight2> Andylockran such as?
<andylockran> livingdaylight2: guy suggesting he was on drugs and trolling
<selinuxium> Cheers popey, bigcalm
 * popey lols at MooDoo 
<popey> http://twitpic.com/60975a
<popey> 2 days after "leaving facebook" :D
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> :p
<MooDoo> i got told off
<MooDoo> by my mum
<popey> haha
<MooDoo> but thanks for making me feel small and inadiquate as usual popey :p
<popey> :D
<popey> NP!
<MooDoo> :P
<MooDoo> :O
 * shauno wonders if it's appropriate to point & laugh when he barely knows these people
<bigcalm> I'm lost
<MooDoo> shauno: why not everyone else does
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i closed my facebook account then re-opened it 3 days later....:(
<shauno> MooDoo: Har Har! </muntz>
<MooDoo> now popey is taking the mick ;)
<MooDoo> shauno: pah! i don't even know you, cheeky s*d ;)
<bigcalm> MooDoo: awww. The power of mums :)
<shauno> heh.  it happens.  my mother's idea of emailing me is trusting that facebook will email me for her
<MooDoo> i got the "your selfish, how can i view pictures of my grandkids now"
<MooDoo> nearly 40 and still under the thumb ;)
<shauno> is she local enough to drop them on her doorstep?
<popey> MooDoo: invite her to G+?
<shauno> (extra comedic value if 'local' is only vaguely the same country)
<popey> and use picasa
<MooDoo> popey: it took all our efforts to get them onto facebook
<popey> hahah
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> its all good fun
<gord> MooDoo, change their hosts file to point at plus.google.com ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> "Facebook has been updated"
<bigcalm> Morning czajkowski :)
<shauno> that would be fantastic.  it's funny enough seeing them scream in pain every time a box moves somewhere else as it is :D
<MooDoo> hi czajkowski
<scoundrel50a> I nhave a HP Photosmart Printer Scanner, I just connected it to my Ubuntu 10.10 laptop, it recognised it, but I cant get it to scan, is there something I am missing?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: bigcalm hi
<gord> scoundrel50a, how are you trying to get it to scan?
<DJones> scoundrel50a: Which model is it?
<gord> i have a photosmart c4700 scanning just fine next to me :)
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<scoundrel50a> C3180 and I am pressing the scan button, but it says it cant connect to pc.......even though I can get it to print
<popey> yeah, dont do that
<popey> open "Simple Scan" on Ubuntu
<DJones> scoundrel50a: Try manually scanning using xsane/simple scan etc
<scoundrel50a> ah, where is that, do I have to install it?
<popey> it should be pre-installed
<davmor2> morning MooDoo
<popey> Simple Scan, that is
<DJones> simple scan should be installed
<scoundrel50a> ok, one sec will go loo
<popey> TMI!
<popey> :D
<scoundrel50a> where is it?
<MooDoo> popey: think they missed that one popey :)
<DJones> popey: Will you slow down typing, I can't keep up :)
<popey> indeed
<popey> :D
 * popey goes to get coffee
<scoundrel50a> ok got it, thank you
 * MooDoo has to purchase an external cd-writer for my laptop :(
<bigcalm> The milk went off this morning when I made my 1st mug of coffee. I has a sad :(
<scoundrel50a> oh my gosh,t nhat worked, brilliant, spent hours trying to get that working,.   thank you
<DJones> scoundrel50a: The scan button on the printer doesn't do anything on mine either, I always use the app
<DJones> Glad it worked for you :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: what for?  use a usb pen drive like the rest of us ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i suppose i could do that....
<MooDoo> davmor2: can't burn cd's with that though can i :p
<shauno> I just don't 'do' paper.  problem(s) solved \o/
<DJones> MooDoo: Its a dangerous path doing that, I bought a usb cd/dvd writer when the built in one started to go funny instead of buying a new computer, 2 months later I bough a new computer
<MooDoo> DJones: i can't afford that, so i definately won't be doing that....
<DJones> MooDoo: Neither could I
<shauno> reminds me, the system I work on at work, just gained fax support in the last feature cycle.  go 2011 ;)
<MooDoo> DJones: baby in 5 weeks...
<DJones> Then I got a policy refund which more than covered the cost :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: shouldn't of got a naff laptop then should you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's a good laptop but about 3 years old
<DJones> MooDoo: The writer I picked up only cost Â£25, but still a waste of money with hindsight
<MooDoo> i'm nipping over to best buy at lunch to see what they have.
<davmor2> MooDoo: local pc shop caddy is about 12-15 quid if you already have a cd writer knocking about failing that a cheap writer is about 8 quid
<DJones> This was in a 2nd hand shop, just happened to spot it in the window, liteon cd/dvd, twin usb connection, worked well while I needed it
<MooDoo> i'll take a look around, i suppose i can live with out it
<davmor2> MooDoo: you gave up on giving up on FB then dude?  didn't last long :)
<popey> i wonder if it's possible to detect the scan button and do something in ubuntu
<directhex> depends how the scan button emits a signal, i guess
<czajkowski> my laptop is going soo slow today on natty alt tabbing is taking forever :/
<czajkowski> really wondering about wiping and re installing
<czajkowski> but don't want to lose all my emails and settings in thunderbird
<davmor2> czajkowski: install ccsm and switch off the 2 second delay alt tab should then be faster :)
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski for not knowing that already :D
<DJones> popey: The HPLIP package apparently doesn't support the scan to pc feature
<popey> czajkowski: have you tweaked the alt-tab delay in CCSM?
<czajkowski> I don't even know what CCSM is :/
<popey> we default to having a delay in popping up the ALT+TAB dialog
<popey> (which is mental)
<popey> compizconfig-settings-manager
<czajkowski> ahh no not tweaked anything but it's soo slow on the tosh
<popey> install unity-2d
<davmor2> czajkowski: install oneiric
<popey> much faster
<popey> dont listen to him
<czajkowski> I've no intention of installing oneiric just yet
<czajkowski> need at least 1 working machine
<davmor2> popey: it's nearly stable and it's faster
<czajkowski> popey: will install 2d on this one
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<czajkowski> who makes these crazy decsisons on default
<czajkowski> *defaults
<MooDoo> davmor2: your crazy, do you do it ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'll point at gord he can tell you
<gord> i know noooothing
<czajkowski> gord: was it you....
 * czajkowski peers at gord 
<davmor2> czajkowski: see how quickly he denies it :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: you'd deny it too if I were peering at you
<popey> czajkowski: http://www.only10types.com/2011/06/ubuntu-1104-natty-slow-alttab-window.html
 * MooDoo thinks davmor2 is casuing trouble this morning
<popey> do that on unity 3d
<popey> see if that improves it
<czajkowski> laptop was fine till around a week or so ago, when it started to slow down
<popey> if it doesn't then switch to 2d
<davmor2> czajkowski: nah I'd just say "and!" :D
<gord> if it started getting slow a week ago then i would suspect something else eating up your ram or cpu or something
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's not my fault you went running back to facebook :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: shut it...!!
<czajkowski> popey: cheers will do
<MooDoo> davmor2: you wouldn't of known if that varlet popey hadn't of grassed me up ;)
<popey> haha
<popey> s/varlet/harlet/
<popey> i guess
<MooDoo> popey: no varlet
<davmor2> MooDoo: the post poped up in gwibber this morning when I switched on
<MooDoo> A dishonest or unprincipled man
<MooDoo> :p
<bigcalm> Maybe popey thinks of himself as a harlet
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> wouldn't that be harlot though?
<davmor2> MooDoo: That makes you the varlet, popey said starting the clock and stopping the clock, you were the one with the lack of principles :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah! stop being clever, it's just not you...:)
<davmor2> now we all know our place, popey is a stop watch, you are a varlet, I ain't clever and czajkowski is just pure violence :)
<MooDoo> yeah but we all like czajkowski  ;)
<bigcalm> How do you empty the mailq? -q attempts to deliver
<Kirrus> bigcalm: what base, qmail, postfix?
<bigcalm> Erm, good question. Most likely postfix
<directhex> postqueue -f
<Kirrus> postsuper -d ALL
<directhex> or did you mean "empty" as in "erase"
<Kirrus> postqueue -f flushes
<bigcalm> erase
<directhex> erasing mail is naughty. and evil.
<Kirrus> so it'll try to redeliver.. you want postsuper -d
<directhex> and yeah, Kirrus is correct
<bigcalm> directhex: this is my dev system
<Kirrus> You can use a mailid instead of 'ALL' if you want to be more picky
<bigcalm> Mail in the Q is not going anywhere
<bigcalm> Kirrus: thanks for that :)
<Kirrus> bigcalm: thank google ;) .. That how I found it last time I needed it ;)
<bigcalm> Unexpected bonus - apparently was paying too much tax since April. Glad my employer is on the ball. 57 quid I wasn't expecting this month
<dogmatic69> :/
<bigcalm> Tempting to buy more toys, will put it aside for oggcamp instead
<MooDoo> pah me wants to go to ogg camp....
<MooDoo> anyone know how to deliver a baby just in case i decide to go with the misses ;)
 * dogmatic69 has done this
<czajkowski> popey: thanks all working now much faster
<dogmatic69> its not too hard, unless there are complications
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: :)
<dogmatic69> MooDoo: especially if its not the first
<MooDoo> oggcamp website looks ace :)
 * MooDoo wonders if oggcamp is becoming the new Lug Radio live ;)
<DJones> Heh, IE users may not be as dumb as recent media reports have suggested http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14389430 Its the media people who reported that are the dumb ones
<WorMzy> Aw
<BigRedS> Yeah, It's as if the BBC are trying to gain a reputation for not fact-checking
<popey> \o/ pub o'clock!
<MooDoo> :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer has decided on this Friday for the West Dean Chilli Fiesta :-D
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i found a bag of chilli stuff in the cupboard which i brought back from a business trip to san antonio. next week i'll be making texas roadhouse chilli, and also carnitas :)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: does the rest of west dean know about this?
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: http://www.westdean.org.uk/Garden/News%20and%20Events/ChilliFiesta.aspx
<davmor2> gord you might know why doesn't 2d unity have the same launchers in it as 3d unity surely they use the same source to get the info right?
<gord> davmor2, they should have the same launchers, but there was an update recently that reset everyones launchers so maybe something got confused
<davmor2> gord: oh nice it does now :)  for ages it didn't so there must of been an update that fixed it :)
<gord> nothing more disappointing than a graze box full of things you don't want :(
<davmor2> gord: I think you'll find there is, a gaze box that was full of things you like but is now empty when you really need some
<MooDoo> davmor2: facebook reply is availabvle
<bowtie> hi all
<MooDoo> hi bowtie :)
<bowtie> MooDoo, is this the write place to ask a theme question?
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<MooDoo> :D
<bowtie> Ok, the Ambiance theme, shows highlighted pop up windows  with white text on gray background, to me this is eligible, where do I have tyo go to hack file and change colour settings,
 * alanbell1 grumbles at silly FTTC setup
<alanbell1> it was working really well for an hour or two
<hamitron> grumbles \o/
<daubers> alanbell1: Broked it already?
<alanbell1> yeah
<hamitron> :/
<alanbell1> fun call with support configuring PPPoE connection on Ubuntu though
<daubers> PPPoE? Do you not get a router?
<alanbell1> turns out they are going to activate the account tomorrow (even though it worked this morning)
<alanbell1> yes, part of the troubleshooting was plug direct into the DSL modem and set up PPPoE
<daubers> ah, ok
<alanbell1> to take the router out of the equation
<hamitron> alanbell1: good to see they know what they are doing, and letting you know ;)
<hamitron> who is this through?
<alanbell1> plus.net
<hamitron> :(
<alanbell1> it was smokin' fast when it worked
<hamitron> I was considering switching to them....
<alanbell1> 34MB down, 1.6MB up
<hamitron> not for fast stuff though
<daubers> alanbell1: That makes me a sad panda :( Stupid 18 month contract terms
<alanbell1> now I have to get a wireless dongle working on my server too
<alanbell1> Bus 002 Device 008: ID 7392:7722 Edimax Technology Co., Ltd
<directhex> alanbell1, bt infinity?
<alanbell1> directhex: 21CN stuff, yeah
<directhex> well, rebranded infinity anyway
<directhex> i'm wondering if changing to fininity will help fix my line reliability
<alanbell1> probably would as only the last few meters are copper
<directhex> if nothing else, if i buy from BT, that should help avoid the finger-pointing dance between ISP and BT
<directhex> ridiculous though. a month ago i had 16Mib down. one BT visit later, a new phone line installed, I get 10 down.
<daubers> directhex: you obviously didn't supply the BT man with a good enough cup of tea :)
<daubers> or substandard biscuits
<directhex> i offered...
<daubers> :)
<directhex> anyway, the new line is way slower than the old one, and no more reliable. and be won't help anymore, they're telling me to ring BT. who charge Â£120 for engineer visits, unless a problem can be proven in THEIR kit. and a line test reports no problem
<directhex> so i need to spend Â£120 on an engineer to tell me it's all Be's fault
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's fairly subtle coming from you dude ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm trying to be nice.
<daubers> directhex: I can do that for you for Â£119.99
<davmor2> MooDoo: you fail at that too then :D
<alanbell1> well this wireless dongle isn't just working :(
<davmor2> alanbell1: what the chipset and what ubuntu version?
<alanbell1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/657888/
<alanbell1> Ubuntu 11.04
<MooDoo> oi czajkowski *POKE*
<alanbell1> I believe it may be a ralink chipset based on googling the USB ID
<davmor2> alanbell1: if it's a ralink 5390 there is now a driver for it in oneiric but not on by default anywhere else in Ubuntu land
<alanbell1> Ralink RT3072 perhaps
<alanbell1> https://usb-ids.gowdy.us/read/UD/7392/7722
<davmor2> alanbell1: you may need to grab the driver from ralink direct unfortunately
<alanbell1> would it work in oneiric?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: sup
<MooDoo> czajkowski: just wanted to let you know i'm still annoyingly here and haven't forgotten about you :)
<czajkowski> ok...
 * czajkowski goes back to cleaning 
<davmor2> czajkowski: I don't believe you were cleaning at all :P
 * daubers puts on BBC Radio Wiltshire
<MooDoo> daubers: oi stop it, radio 2 is the only way to go ;)
<daubers> MooDoo: Friend of mine is being interviewed about his book :)
<MooDoo> sweet
<MooDoo> i wrote a book once, it just consisted of my name, it wasn't an interesting read ;)
<daubers> MooDoo: his first novel is released tomorrow
<MooDoo> brillian
<daubers> That was short
<TheOpenSourcerer> ouch! http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2011/08/agile-in-the-nhs-10-years-5bn.html
<MooDoo> sweetI'm sure i saw on the news thos morning it's been scrapped
<alanbell1> there is a good reason they want to figure out how to trade with SMEs again
<lightstream> nice work if you can get it
<MooDoo> i'll sort the NHS out.....
<MooDoo> alanbell1: your mission ;)
<alanbell1> MooDoo: not taking on the NHS, even the cabinet office doesn't want to go there
<alanbell1> it would be easier to get an RT3072 chipset USB wifi dongle working than it would be to fix the NHS
<daubers> Be easier to fix all the issues I have with "Finder" on a mac then fix the NHS
<alanbell1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/657953/
<alanbell1> any ideas what to do about that lot?
<alanbell1> I think I have downloaded probably the right module, I might have built it and installed it
<daubers> alanbell1: Check the module is loaded with lsmod?
<alanbell1> http://paste.ubuntu.com/657956/
<alanbell1> that would be a no
<daubers> alanbell1: Does it not even give you an eth back?
<alanbell1> how do you mean?
<alanbell1> it doesn't create eth1 or anything
<daubers> alanbell1: Also which kernel are you running?
<alanbell1> Linux playroom 2.6.38-8-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Mon Apr 11 03:31:24 UTC 2011 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<daubers> alanbell1: What happens if you modprobe the driver?
<alanbell1> FATAL: Error inserting rt5370sta (/lib/modules/2.6.38-8-generic/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/rt5370sta.ko): Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)
<alanbell1> if that is the right driver
<daubers> is there no general rt3070 driver?
<alanbell1> seemed to be the only thing that make install actually installed
 * daubers despises wireless networking of all kinds
<alanbell1> I downloaded "RT8070/RT3070/RT3370/RT5370/RT5372 USB" from http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=2
<alanbell1> the release notes say it works on 3072, which I *think* I have
<directhex> alanbell1, you can't just insert a .ko without building. the kernel has no stable ABI
<alanbell1> I did make; sudo make install
<alanbell1> there is a .c file with a list of USB ids that does't include my one, lets see what happens if I add it there
 * popey has dd-wrt'ed a router
<popey> its a bit nice
<lightstream> ah was looking at that a while ago, the FOSS firmware?
<lightstream> how easy was it to install?
<gord> only a bit nice?
<davmor2> gord: our minds must be on the same wavelength I was about to put the exact same thing :D
<gord> note to self, copyright everything i say on irc
<daubers> gord: I've copyrighted that statement, you owe me licence money!
<gord> daubers, an ip address is not an admission of guilt!
 * MooDoo is just checking the DB to see if i can dd-wrt mine
<daubers> gord: That's ok, I've also copyrighted your IP address, so every packet you send means you owe me more in licencing \o/
<MooDoo> ooo it is
<popey> lightstream: very very
<MooDoo> popey: did you just download the chk file and use the router interface to flash it?
<popey> i just took one out of the box, and chose "router upgrade", uploaded the firmware file, wait a minute, job done
<MooDoo> think i might try that
<lightstream> what brand router popey ?
<popey> Netgear WNDR3700v2
<lightstream> ah cool i have a netgear, i shall check the model number when i get home
<MooDoo> hmmm i've got a WNR2000 and it won't let me use the chk file, must read ore
<alanbell1> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=64575 this looks close
<alanbell1> yay, I have an ra0 device \o/
<directhex> alanbell1, GPL-only symbols?
<alanbell1> that could be the magic trick I guess
<alanbell1> I thought it was the insmod from the folder rather than modprobe
<popey> \o/ second access point flashed to dd-wrt
<popey> only one more to go
<alanbell1> anyhow it kind of works, network manager isn't picking it up and I haven't done the blacklist thing (which probably isn't required as it is an odd usb id)
<MooDoo> pah my router isn't supported #fail
<alanbell1> I think a reboot is in order o/
<gord> huh, seems my router can do ddwrt too, but i'v finally got a router that works, so i'm not touching it
<popey> loving the UI of this
<MooDoo> i can't upgrade mine :(
<popey> i might disable my superhub and just use this
<popey> it has dual radios so does 2.4GHz and 5GHz
<popey> haha, someone with an iphone keeps connecting to it
<popey> I can see myself donating to this product
<MooDoo> blimey
<alanbell1> progress is being made, the module loads, I can do "ifconfig ra0 up" and I can do iwlist ra0 scanning and see my router name
<alanbell1> network manager isn't seeing it though. Any ideas on that?
<Mez> alanbell1: NM takes a while to pick things up.  Simplest thing is to connect an ethernet and then drop down to "disconnect"
<Mez> which forces it to do a refresh, I've found
<alanbell1> nope
<alanbell1> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<alanbell1> lets see if I can connect to the router using the command line
<alanbell1> hmm, no
<bigcalm> What's the advised way of coping with âandâ ?
<alanbell1> can't set the essid using iwconfig
<Azelphur> anyone know how to exclude certain directories from an rsnapshot backup?
<Azelphur> like I want to do backup root@myserver:/ but I have certain things that are pointless and huge that I don't want backed up
<bigcalm> Like an snv:ignore
<Azelphur> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/08/03/0239242/Ripping-CDs-Set-To-Be-Legalized-In-UK yay
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur:
<TheOpenSourcerer> Q: How do I exclude files/directories with spaces in their names, like Documents and Settings?
<TheOpenSourcerer> A: You can make use of the wildcard matching and replace the space with a ?, for example: exclude=Documents?and?Settings/ 			
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://rsnapshot.org/faq.html
<Azelphur> fun :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bit about using a exclude list here: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-rsnapshot-backup-howto/
<popey> MOO!
<directhex> OINK!
<DJones> NEIGH!
<Azelphur> BAA!
<DJones> Beef, Pork, Horse & Lamb, sounds like a french BBQ
<directhex> QUACK!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Reads like a page from the kids book "Farmer Duck".
<popey> dd-wrt.com seems dead :WS
<popey> â¨ even
<hamitron> entire internet is
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> well, broken anyway
<hamitron> ;/
<MooDoo> blimey fedora board meetings are just soooo boring to watch lol
<gord> MooDoo, you suggest there are board meetings that are interesting to watch :)
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> popey: when you say seems dead do you mean no-one is working on it or the site is down?
<MooDoo> seems ok here popey
<MooDoo> http://dd-wrt.com/site/index
<popey> it was dead when i said it
<popey> it's back now
<diplo> Hi all, mates laptop was set to login auto
<diplo> Hes set it to require a password now
<diplo> But when trying to login it says currently logged in
<diplo> but doesn't load desktop
<diplo> Can login via cli
<diplo> Any ideas ?
<diplo> Google isn't helping so far :)
<popey> are you sat at it?
<diplo> He is yeah
<diplo> 2 foot away
<popey> you are not?
<popey> oh
<popey> so rebooting takes him to gdm logon screen?
<diplo> yep
<diplo> Enters details, clicks login and just refreshes
<diplo> and says currently logged in
<popey> ooer
<diplo> heh, first time for me as well
<lightstream> but doing ctrl-alt-F1 lets him log in?
<diplo> Yep
<lightstream> weirdness
<diplo> Tried passwd just to make sure
<diplo> just trying useradd now, see if a new user can login
<lightstream> probb a red herring, ie it's not that he's already logged in but someother issue that is making the login fail
<lightstream> and the error reporting is 'jumping to conclusions'
<diplo> ok, currently logged in was another tty
<diplo> forgot to exit out
<diplo> So created a new user, clicked on it and it just refreshes the login screen, doesn't offer to put pass in
<diplo> So it seems its to do with gdm-session-worker assertion failed
<diplo> googled for that now, if any one has any ideas ?
<diplo> Hmm, too hot, he's given up for the day.. if we don't get anywhere in the morning I'll harass you all again
<diplo> :)
<ali1234> does anyone happen to know how much a ticket from london victoria to luton airport costs?
<ali1234> (if you turn up and buy it on the day)
<tubadaz> Â£16.00 single, Â£21.00 for a day return (according to the national rail website) :-)
<ali1234> damn
<ali1234> that's a total rip off :(
<tubadaz> Welcome to UK rail pricing! :-(
<MartijnVdS> Bus to luton is cheaper
<MartijnVdS> "Green Line" are good.
<ali1234> i can get a coach from nottingham to luton for Â£26
<ali1234> or i can get a coach from nottingham to london victoria (which is about twice as far) for Â£9
<MartijnVdS> http://www.greenline.co.uk/serviceInformation.aspx?id=12595
<MartijnVdS> oh it's still Â£16 single
<MartijnVdS> ripoff :)
<tubadaz> national express are quoting me from Â£15 for a single on the coach!! :-O
<ali1234> yes
<MartijnVdS> this is why I took the train from Brussels to  St Pancras :)
<tubadaz> plus a booking fee of 50p!!
<MartijnVdS> Â£50 flight + Â£25 bus tickets = cheaper to take the train :)
<ali1234> train nottingham to luton costs the same as well, Â£26
<ali1234> but it takes an hour less
<AlanBell> I am failing to connect my wireless by the command line
<ali1234> popey: you can share a 3g dongle over wifi using openwrt. do not use dd-wrt, it is dumbed down rubbish
<AlanBell> sudo iwconfig wlan0 essid PlusnetWirelessYVMZVD key s:PQET7XLDQR
<AlanBell> Error for wireless request "Set Encode" (8B2A) :    SET failed on device wlan0 ; Invalid argument.
<AlanBell> what am I doing wrong there? (the key is slightly different to the one I pasted)
<popey> ali1234: i have already flashed it with dd-wrt :D
<popey> ali1234: will have a look at openwrt when I get home, thanks
 * brobostigon returns
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Weekly Ubuntu Q+A Videocasts - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/08/03/weekly-ubuntu-qa-videocasts/
 * peng42phone yawns from Peterborough train St
<AlanBell> ooh, I think I am online
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> you are, yes.
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1415791585.png
<AlanBell> not as fast as it was this morning, I seem to have lost 14MB of download
<peng42phone> New line?
<AlanBell> I think the Fiber to the Cabinet box is overheating
<brobostigon> :(
<AlanBell> yeah, stories all over the net about them overheating when not wall mounted
<brobostigon> ah.
<MartijnVdS> This Intel 510 SSD rocks quite hard
<MartijnVdS> Boot from BIOS to login screen is faster than the BIOS part ;)
<popey> no speedtest for me!
<popey> flash free august
<MartijnVdS> popey: the png AlanBell linked to will still work though :)
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> popey: PNG is stallman-approved Free :)
<popey> so i flashed 3 routers to dd-wrt
<popey> now learn that openwrt is probably what I want/need
<MartijnVdS> popey: I thought one was a fork of the other
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: What does it do that you need?
<popey> openwrt supports 3g dongles
<popey> which means I need to flash it back to netgear firmware then openwrt it
<popey> tried going dd-wrt -> openwrt but it helpfully says "update failed"
<hamitron> are they not merging towards each other?
<popey> no idea
<hamitron> I read they are to reduce work or something
<mgdm> it'd make sense
<peng42phone> Popeye's: that's pretty helpful compared to bricking
<popey> true
<ali1234> openwrt does not "support 3g dongles" any more than any other linux distribution
<ali1234> it merely allows you to do whatever you want
<ali1234> while dd-wrt doesn't
<popey> gotcha
<hamitron> you have the right to break things on openwrt.... :-o
<ali1234> 3g dongles are no different to any other ppp dial up
 * hamitron switches
<ali1234> dd-wrt is for people who want to run a custom firmware but don't need any features that aren't in the standard firmware
<hamitron> the one thing missing from dd-wrt for me... I'm like ipv6 and vpn supported at the same time
<hamitron> I'd*
<hamitron> but not looked closely
<hamitron> just didn't seem to be a simple option available
<ali1234> that's because such things are not simple
<hamitron> a lazy tinkerer doesn't get much tinkering  done
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> there was no firmware build with both in, that will fit on my router
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> didn't even get to the point of attempting to set it up
<ali1234> openwrt is customizable
<hamitron> and if anything recently, I've been reducing the options I have
<ali1234> you can remove packages you don't need to make room... like the web interface
<hamitron> so it would be better for me
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> just so much to do in life
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and so little time
<shauno> okay.  here's a fun one.  why does irssi keep getting killed by SIGALRM
<MartijnVdS> shauno: because you loaded a plugin that called alarm() but not a signal handler
<shauno> shoulda thought to look at new scripts.  even though that's been running a good 6 weeks now
<MartijnVdS> Fry's English Delight is great this week :)
<peng42phone> Hmm, the expected arrival time of my train keeps getting later
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E12  More Tea Vicar - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/08/03/s04e12-more-tea-vicar/
<popey> anyone fancy helping me debug a ppp 3g issue?
<bigcalm> I would do, but I have to go play taxi man now and pick up Hayley
<popey> ok
<AlanBell> how are you getting on with the liberated routers?
<popey> i have openwrt on one
<popey> and have plugged a known working 3g dongle into it
<popey> but can't seem to get it to dial
<AlanBell> is the dongle in useless mode?
<popey> no, I think it's good
<AlanBell> or in I am a modem mode
<popey> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 19d2:0031 ONDA Communication S.p.A. ZTE MF636
<popey> 19d2:2000 is useless mode I believe
<popey>  /dev/ttyUSB0-2 exist
<popey> which is a start
<ali1234> so what happens when you send "AT" to it?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658237/
<AlanBell> can you talk to it with minicom or something?
<popey> thats what ppp is doing
<ali1234> pppd is useless for debugging
<ali1234> use minicom
<popey> ok
<popey> root@hawking:~# opkg search minicom
<popey> root@hawking:~#
<ali1234> "AT&F" is some crazy stuff i never heard of
<popey> â¹
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658247/
<popey> i believe its using that
<ali1234> yeah delete all that rubbish
<ali1234> it's different for every dongle
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658248/
<popey> thats from my /etc/config/networking
<popey>  -ing
<ali1234> AT&F and ATE1 are not needed
<ali1234> but you have to put the dongle online
<ali1234> whoever wrote that script has no clue :)
<popey> heh
<popey> dunno where it came from
<ali1234> but it doesn't help that every dongle is different
<ali1234> ATE1 = local echo
<ali1234> you probably need ATV1 too for verbose mode otherwise it won't return "OK"
<ali1234> then you have to send
<ali1234> AT+CFUN=1
<ali1234> AT+COPS=0
<ali1234> then you can send AT+CGDCONT...
<mgdm> AT&F was, if I remember over 10 years ago correctly, something to reset bits inside the modem
<mgdm> I forget exactly what bits
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658252/
<popey> like that?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> that will wait for ever for "OK" before it sends anything
<ali1234> line 6 must start with ""
<popey> oh
<popey> gotcha
<ali1234> and put ATE1 back in
<ali1234> after ATV1
<ali1234> and you should do this using a terminal emulator
<ali1234> picocom, microcom, or cu
<ali1234> or just cat and echo
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658253/
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> ATV1
<popey> que
<popey> sorry, being dim
<czajkowski> whooooooooooo going back to ireland for 10 days :D
<mgdm> \o/
<shauno> any chance you can bring some sun with ya ?
<czajkowski> if I've not melted by then sure
<shauno> meant to be heading out to the aran islands on saturday.  would be nice if they could pause the drizzle for 12 hours
<czajkowski> it was 30 today here
<czajkowski> well said 28 outdoors
<czajkowski> damn hotter indoors
<AlanBell> czajkowski: when are you going?
<Laney> I went climbing today. Some of the holds were seriously sweaty due to the extreme heat :(
<Azelphur> anyone happen to know what all the wildcard characters are for irc hostmask matches?
<Azelphur> I think it's just * and ? right?
<mgdm> IIRC, yes, pretty much the same as shell globs
<Azelphur> :)
<mgdm> You'd think I'd remember being staff and everything, but no...
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> grrrr
<czajkowski> AlanBell: 23/8 - 1/9
<popey> \o/
 * AlanBell checks diary
<popey> thought for a moment you'd be away for oggcamp!
<czajkowski> popey: and you went \o/ ;)
<czajkowski> seeing as have to sign on here every 2 weeks going in between for a wee break back home
<czajkowski> heading straight to Lahinch :D
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658266/
<popey> nearly there!
<czajkowski> popey: whatcha doing...
<popey> trying to get a backup router working for oggcamp
<popey> in case we need it for internet access
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> smart
<popey> frustrating
<popey> so close
<hamitron> "need"
<hamitron> ;/
<popey> yeah, some people will need internet access for their talks
<czajkowski> popey: you giving a talk
<popey> dunno yet
<popey> not written one yet
<popey> not had time
<czajkowski> I was thinking about it
<czajkowski> but don't know what I could talk on
<dwatkins> bringing Ubuntu to the masses?
<gord> yay, want a new router already
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I will be flying back on the 23rd
<czajkowski> to or from shannon ?
<AlanBell> from shannon to gatwick
<AlanBell> I will wave at you out of the window as we go past
<AlanBell> crap, no static IP address for me :(
 * mgdm waves his static IP \o/
<mgdm> AlanBell: how come?
<AlanBell> not available on this service apparently
<AlanBell> even though I very specifically asked for one when ordering and was told that I could add one for Â£5 after setup
<AlanBell> now I am told to go use dyndns :(
<popey> Oh look, it's Sterly-worded-letter-of-complaint O'Clock!
<AlanBell> bed o'clock
<popey> thatalso
<AlanBell> I will get by with dyndns and assuming that if I keep everything on I keep the address
<czajkowski> AlanBell: leave @ 6:50am flight
<czajkowski> only time to fly to shannon from gatwick
<ali1234> popey: the dial string is different across all dongles
<ali1234> also, is it the free 3 dongle?
<ali1234> because that needs an extra command to enable 3G data mode
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-04
<Azelphur> lol wow, #mysql is batshit crazy :D
<Azelphur> I went there to ask how to take a backup without having my mysql server slow to a crawl with mysqldump
<Azelphur> they told me to setup a separate $500 server and read a document on performance analytics and security and also to have 20 minutes downtime every hour to take backups :D
<shauno> better get right on that then ;)
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> shauno: it was even more funny when one guy changed his nick to "Aze1phur" and carried on trolling the guy who was saying all the dumb shit
<Azelphur> and he didn't even notice it wasn't me
<shauno> not the best time to run out of coffee :/
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgClLSPmzP4
<harry_> hey any one with the knowledge of language selector in Ubuntu 11.04???
<MooDoo> morning all
<harry_> Hey MooDoo..
<MooDoo> thought it was the only crazy fool up this early ;)
<harry_> ya stuck in a problem frnd..
<shauno> MooDoo, what makes you think you're not ?
<MooDoo> shauno: lol
<shauno> trying & failing to sneak a quick nap in before everyone else gets in
<harry_> hey guys answer my qution first dude ..
<MooDoo> shauno: my laddo woke up at 5 am
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<MooDoo> :)
<shauno> MooDoo, I'm already in the office.  5am isn't early :p
<MooDoo> shauno: late shift or very early start?
<harry_> i have already post the qution lubotu3....okay again here....
<shauno> early start
<harry_> <harry_> hey any one with the knowledge of language selector in Ubuntu 11.04???
<MartijnVdS> !ask | harry_
<lubotu3> harry_: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<MooDoo> not me i'm afraid :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: already did that :D
<MartijnVdS> ah oops
<MooDoo> harry_: are you having a problem with it?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I blame the fact that it's early :)
<harry_> yup...
<MartijnVdS> harry_: What's the problem you're having with it?
<harry_> oky its like when i change the langauge at the time of login its not changing in the regional Fromat in ubuntu 11.04 so the locales are not getting change with it..
<MartijnVdS> harry_: did you install the language pack first?
<MartijnVdS> harry_: also.. "regional format"? in which programs?
<MartijnVdS> harry_: what does "locale" say on the command line? (please use pastebin)
<harry_> yes of-curse i did....
<MartijnVdS> harry_: just checking :)
<harry_> regional fromates are there in Language selector in the settings of Ubuntu
<harry_> and locale like...
<harry_> ~$ locale
<harry_> LANG=en_IN.UTF-8
<harry_> LANGUAGE=en_US:en
<harry_> LC_CTYPE="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_NUMERIC="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_TIME="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_COLLATE="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_MONETARY="en_IN.UTF-8"
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin | harry_
<lubotu3> harry_: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<harry_> LC_MESSAGES=en_US.UTF-8
<harry_> LC_PAPER="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_NAME="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_ADDRESS="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_TELEPHONE="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_MEASUREMENT="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_IN.UTF-8"
<harry_> LC_ALL=
<harry_> okay thanks man...here is the link
<harry_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658435/
<harry_> hello
<AlanBell> morning all
<popey> ali1234: tried a few dial strings, and yes it's the green and black cheapo dongle
<popey> hi
<popey> ali1234: tried the same dial string settings as network manager uses and that failed
<ali1234> what colour is the LED on it?
<ali1234> if it is green it means it is using GPRS/2G
<ali1234> which doesn't work on 3
<ali1234> if it is blue it is using 3G
<popey> it flashes green on my desktop
<popey> and works
<popey> its a tricolour LED, Red/Green/Blue
 * popey goes to work, will take it with me and test there
<ging> my o2 dongle i have been told also has a purple led in it but i've never seen it
<ali1234> maybe it's the other way around
<ali1234> ging, you're kidding right?
<ging> no
<ging> it doesn't mention it at all in the manual
<ging> but aprently it comes on if you set it to umts instead of hspda
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<shauno> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<popey> morning
<popey> (again)
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<DJones> Hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> I wish Ubuntu server was like cpanel, but not crap
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.thelmagazine.com/images/blogimages/2010/04/30/1272634254-the-wish8221-tee-509-full.jpg
<BigRedS> AlanBell: virtualmin?
<daubers> AlanBell: I don't think I'd care if it had a gtk based gui tbh :)
<daubers> AlanBell: As long as it did what every other major OS does in terms of ldappy type things for office workgroups
<MartijnVdS> LDAP shouldn't be as hard to set up as it is
<MartijnVdS> both server AND client side
<MartijnVdS> (fiddling with 10 config files and hoping it'll work)--
<diplo> AlanBell, I put the same thing in the Ubuntu Server questionnaire, it's my only issue with some of my old staff to getting them to use it
<diplo> MartijnVdS, totally agree, having lot's of issues getting a working LDAP server myself :(
<oimon> if you're on a home network, install zimbra free version and it will do the work for you :)
<dwatkins> People use LDAP at home?
<popey> People use Linux at home?
<dwatkins> I do, popey ;)
<lightstream> doesn't everyone??
<shauno> at home?  I don't hate myself that much :p
<lightstream> you love bill more than you love yourself :D
 * dwatkins notes his netbook at home is running at 60 degrees centigrade
<oimon> shauno has an idols of jobs in the corner of his house
<shauno> pft
<shauno> they don't go in the corner
 * popey tickles ali1234 
<popey> suggestions for making this dongle work welcome
<ali1234> well
<MartijnVdS> popey: dongle? what kind?
<ali1234> how did you even get openwrt to recognise it?
<ali1234> mine has no usb drivers
<daubers> popey: Donate one to mjg?
<popey> i followed a guide
<popey> one mo
<JamesTait> Buenos dias!
<popey> opkg update
<popey> opkg install usbutils
<popey> opkg install kmod-usb-serial kmod-usb2 kmod-usb-uhci kmod-usb-ohci
<popey> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 19d2:2000 ONDA Communication S.p.A. ZTE MF627/MF628/MF628+/MF636+ HSDPA/HSUPA
<popey> thats the device
<popey> it works fine on desktop/laptop
<popey> but the dialling bit fails on openwrt
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> i didn't install usb-uhci
<ali1234> i knew i forgot something
<ali1234> opkg doesn't have them as deps cos every router needs a different one
<ali1234> maybe you just need to set a longer timeout
 * popey tries this
<oimon> boarded an empty bus during rush hour this morning which didn't stop at any intermediate stops until my destination. best taxi ever \o/
<popey> light goes green when in my laptop but red in this router
<directhex> wife got on train this morning. it decided not to stop at oxford, and kicked everyone out in reading.
<ali1234> red is bad
<shauno> stuff like that almost makes me homesick
<directhex> popey, 3g modem? does it need usb modeswitch?
<popey> it has that directhex
<popey> it switches from 19d2:2000 to 19d2:0031
<directhex> <popey> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 19d2:2000 ONDA Communication S.p.A. ZTE MF627/MF628/MF628+/MF636+ HSDPA/HSUPA
<ali1234> this is the chat script i used to use to do this on white russian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/658515/
<popey> directhex: that was a paste from earlier
<directhex> popey, firmware files? i needed firmware to use my laptop's 3g
<daubers> directhex: There's a nice cafe in Reading town centre that does salady type nommy food in a box
<directhex> daubers, great - but she needs to be in the office in oxford.
<bigcalm> Hallo peoples :)
<popey> directhex: didnt know it needed firmware
<daubers> directhex: Nobody needs that really :)
<popey> directhex: any idea where from / what it is?
<shauno> snacks > office
<popey> i.e. can i grab it from /lib/firmware somewhere
<directhex> popey, i'm not sure if it *does* need firmware, just offing suggestions
<popey> ah ok
<ali1234> it doesn't
<directhex> i wonder if orange will do me a deal on mobile broadbean for my laptop
<directhex> i use a Three sim right now, via PAYG
<ali1234> popey: did you unlock it?
<ali1234> popey: are you using the correct tty?
<ali1234> there's thee
<ali1234> you have to use the right one
<ali1234> you have three ports 0,1,2
<ali1234> 1 and 2 accept at commands
<popey> i havent unlocked it
<popey> i must be using the right tty, the chat script partially works
<popey> i get responses
<popey> its just the connect that fails
<ali1234> but only one of them will emit ppp
<ali1234> that is expected if you use the wrong one
<ali1234> the ppp packets will start appearing on the other tty
<directhex> hmph, i pay Â£10 for 1 gig of data on Three, with 1 month expiry, on PAYG. Orange charge Â£15 for that on a contract basis, with Â£5 off for existing customers. Net saving: 0.
<popey> ok
 * popey reboots it
<popey> ooo
<ali1234> directhex: the same as what i pay except i can also make phone calls and they gave me a free phone too
<popey> green light
<popey> not red
<ali1234> green is wrong
<ali1234> it should be blue
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> i never see blue
<ali1234> green means "initializing"
<popey> bah, red
<ali1234> i only see blue when i use a genuine three sim
<directhex> ali1234, i'm talking data SIMs here, not phones
<ali1234> directhex: yes
<directhex> why do i want to make phone calls from my laptop?
<ali1234> the question you should actually ask is "why am i paying twice when i could just use 1 sim for everything"
<ali1234> popey: actually red might be good
<popey> hah
<ali1234> anyway try the other tty
<ali1234> and try increasing the timeout as in the paste
<shauno> now that's an epic plot twist
<bigcalm> Damn you VirginMedia caching DNS. The rest of the world can see this new subdomain, wake up!
<popey> tried all 3 ttys
<gord> bigcalm, can you not just use 8.8.8.8 instead?
<bigcalm> gord: I could I guess
<bigcalm> What's Google's 2nd name server?
<gord> setting up google dns is part of my router setup process these days :)
<gord> 8.8.4.4
<bigcalm> That's the rub. Can't alter the DNS on the VM superhub
<gord> sounds anything but super...
<bigcalm> I think it's meant to be sarcastic
<oimon> is the htc desire S exactly the same shape/size as the desire? buying a phone case.
<diplo> Any one recommend a cheapish router for dd-wrt, one popey got is a slight bit expensive for me :/
<popey> ali1234: tried pretty much your paste
<popey> but it still fails to do anything after sending the ATD
<popey> expect (CONNECT)
<popey> then a delay then 'alarm' 'failed'
<bigcalm> diplo: my dd-wrt flashed router is still for sale now popey doesn't need it
<diplo> Wat model bigcalm and how much ?
<diplo> Using sky,and the router supplied is a tad rubbish :(
<bigcalm> Linksys WRT320N 40 quid (if you're going to oggcamp)
<popey> ali1234: what do you have in /etc/config/network for your ppp0?
<directhex> routers are all rubbish.
<ali1234> nothing
<ali1234> white russian doesn't use /etc/config
<popey> ah
<gord> i fixed my routers 20kb/s download speed over wifi last night by turning off QoS =\ weird stuff
<bigcalm> diplo: Oh, if you want to replace your ADSL modem/router, I also have a Netgear DG834N (no idea if it will take dd-wrt though)
 * apw idly notes that the loco wiki says the next meeting is on the 23rd of july
<bigcalm> aquarius: now that you have your stuff back, have you tried the network ports on the router?
<aquarius> bigcalm, not yet, although I'm gonna
<bigcalm> K
<diplo> Doesnt look like the DG is supported bigcalm, will have a think about the other one thanks
<popey> BAH!
<popey> gcom -d /dev/ttyUSB* gives SIM ERROR
<popey> btu this works on my laptop
<MartijnVdS> popey: SIM ERROR means you need to enter a PIN maybe?
<popey> network manager shows no PIN
<popey> what would the PIN be?
<MartijnVdS> popey: or maybe the USB port on the device doesn't provide enough juice?
<MartijnVdS> popey: 0000? 1234? whatever the PIN on the SIM is
<MartijnVdS> popey: stick it in a phone and find out :)
<ali1234> how did you get it to work on ubuntu?
<ali1234> i get exactly the same as on openwrt: plug it in, get three tty, nothing else happens
<popey> on ubuntu i just used the Network Manager wizard
<popey> it asks what country, network and thats it
<directhex> NM is nice for 3g
<ali1234> yeah but how do i get to the wizard?
<popey> plug dongle in, wait, it shows up in nm
<ali1234> no, it doesn't
<popey> as a new device, click it the wizard starts, well, does here
<popey> the other option is nm -> edit connections -> mobile broadband
<ali1234> yeah there's nothing in there
<popey> yeah, it only appears in there after you run the wizard
<popey> or if you manually add new device
<ali1234> your apn should be "3internet" according to this
<ali1234> not "three.co.uk"
<popey> yup
<popey> tried both
<czajkowski> Aloha
<ali1234> oh, look at that
<ali1234> it woks
<ali1234> now the light is flashing blue
<ali1234> i have an ip and everything
<popey> heh
<ali1234> so, you must use ttyUSB2
<ali1234> you must manually write gprs config in /etc/ppp/peers
<ali1234> then you must write connect and disconnect scripts
<ali1234> and then it works
<ali1234> (on ubuntu)
<ali1234> ttyUSB1 didn't work... it got to dialing then just never connected
<ali1234> interesting that the sim card still works
<ali1234> i haven't touched this thing since i bought it
<popey> heh
<ali1234> oh and my apn "internet"
<ali1234> ok, identical pppd config works on openwrt in an identical manner
<ali1234> and you would expect really
<popey> bah
<popey> what am I doing wrong â¹
<ali1234> what version of openwrt are you using?
<popey> bleeding edge
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> well that's your first mistake
<popey> lol
<ali1234> openwrt trunk won't even boot on my hardware
<popey> r27832
<ali1234> unless you have some router that is only supported in trunk, use backfire
<popey> i think i do
<popey> the 3700v2 apparently only works on very recent
<AlanBell> http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/public-sector/3295032/nhs-fears-multibillion-pound-npfit-legal-fight-with-bt-csc-and-fujitsu/ and you thought public sector IT contracts couldn't be worse
<popey> ttyusb2 is less useful than 1, i get no responses at all
<ali1234> reboot the modem
<popey> i did
<shauno> this is probbly why we have battleships running on nt4.  cheaper to build new ships, than to tender a software contract
<ali1234> it tends to crash if you attempt to ppp on usb1
<ali1234> popey: this is my full config http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/gprs.tar.gz
<popey> it doesnt seem to like it if I specify a pincode 0000 or 1234, "Failed to set the PIN code"
<popey> now I'm getting zero response from the chat script
<ali1234> so put the sim in a phone
<popey> i dont have a phone that will take a conventional sim âº
<bigcalm> Well, if you will use an iPhone :P
<ali1234> derp
<popey> :D
<popey> i see on openwrt doc which says it _must_ have a pin
<ali1234> well that's not true at all
<ali1234> mine doesn't have a pin and it works fine
<popey> and i dont specify a pin on ubuntu
<ali1234> i suggest you do this
<popey> losing the will to live with this
<ali1234> take my gprs config ^
<ali1234> put it on ubuntu and see if it works
<ali1234> without any NM rubbish
<popey> where does that go?
<popey> in /etc/ppp ?
<ali1234> /etc/ppp/peers
<popey> ok
<ali1234> ten pppd call gprs
<ali1234> as root
<ali1234> probably
<popey> ok
<ali1234> if it works on ubuntu it should work on openwrt too
<ali1234> if it doesn't work on ubuntu then there's something different about your dongle, probably because it isn't unlocked
<ali1234> if it works on ubuntu and not openwrt then the problem is you are using trunk, or it just don't work right on your router
<ali1234> also if it doesn't work on ubuntu it can be your sim card
<popey> ok, config copied
<ali1234> i will try using my other sim...
<ali1234> when you use ubuntu and it "works" what does the led do?
<popey> that script works
<popey> flashy green light
<ali1234> NO green is wrong
<ali1234> it should be blue
<ali1234> mine is blue
<popey> well, i have a 10. ip from it
<ali1234> ok its working then
<ali1234> ok... i put in my tmo sim
<ali1234> i got a red light
<ali1234> and then i connected and i got a red flashy light
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> i think the unlocked firmware has different colour leds
<popey> ah
<popey> makes sense
<ali1234> anyway, flashing is always good
<popey> this is blinking away
<popey> :D
<popey> ok, so we've established one fact. Flashing is _good_
<ali1234> yeah because normally on three, you get green led = 3g connection
<ali1234> cos the whole thing is green and black after all
<ali1234> but that's on three's locked firmware
<ali1234> on the unlocked one, 3g = blue led
<ali1234> anyway that is irrelevant
<ali1234> so, now copy those files onto the openwrt, in the exact same place, and do the exact same thing
<popey> hmmm
<popey> ok
<ali1234> hmm interesting, on openwrt my tmo sim gives a blue led
<popey> do i need to remove ppp0 from /etc/config/network ?
<ali1234> and it fails to connect
<ali1234> no, i shouldn't think so
<ali1234> ok, second attempt and it worked
<ali1234> i'm going to put that down to flaky signal
<popey> hmm, if I plug the modem in, its going to try to dial automatically
<ali1234> in what?
<ali1234> in to openwrt?
<popey> openwrt
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> why would it do that?
<popey> it auto connects
<popey> well, tries
<ali1234> mine doesn't
<popey> so I'll remove ppp0 from /etc/config/network then
<popey> so it doesnt
<ali1234> if you insist :)
<popey> haha
<popey> right, plugged in
<popey> red light
<popey> light off
<daubers> popey: Isn't there an option in that file to not autoconnect?
<popey> red light again
<popey> green light
<popey> pppd call gprs does nothing
<ali1234> set permissions
<ali1234> on the chat scripts
<ali1234> they have to be executable
<popey> ahh
<popey> ok, pppd call gprs just sits there then returns
<popey> no chatter
<ali1234> yeah the openwrt one doesn't do debug
<ali1234> it should never return though
<ali1234> also, light off = attempting to dial
<ali1234> so you failed to disable that
<ali1234> and it's probably what is messing it up
<ali1234> also another thing, i think the reason mine doesn't trigger auto dialing is because when i plug it in, it defaults to modem mode
<ali1234> i don't need any of the modeswitch nonsense
<popey> script /etc/ppp/peers/gprs-connect-chat finished status = 0x3
<ali1234> there's an AT command which sets the default mode
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> connect script failed
<davmor2> hey MooDoo I'm up too now :D
<ali1234> so
<ali1234> openwrt claims that the device must have a pin?
<ali1234> so maybe their autodialler *always* tries to send a pin
<ali1234> and that messes it up
<popey> the autodialler didnt kick in
<ali1234> it did
<ali1234> the light went out
<popey> no that was usbmodeswitch
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well, i dunno
<ali1234> all i can suggest is flashing it with the unlocked firmware
<popey> is that straightforward?
<ali1234> no
<popey> ah
<popey> :D
<ali1234> you need windows and some qualcomm engineering mode software
<ali1234> qpst i think it's called
<popey> i have windows
<popey> http://forum.gsmhosting.com/vbb/f25/zte-mf626-unlock-free-806533/
<shauno> this is making's NM's "ireland, O2, kthxbye" dongle setup look pretty space-age
<popey> very much so
<ali1234> well hey, mine works fine
<ali1234> oh, i just found my notes from when i was doing al this
<ali1234> http://pastebin.com/L9x9tAqH
<ali1234> see about the AT+ZCDRUN command
<ali1234> try disabling that so you don't need usb mode switch
<ali1234> that might be messing it up
<popey> ok
<ali1234> that is, send AT+ZCDRUN=8
<ali1234> then reboot everything and try again
<popey> so add that to gprs-connect-chat?
<oimon> linus has a rant about gnome3: https://plus.google.com/106327083461132854143/posts/SbnL3KaVRtM
<ali1234> popey: no, you only have to run it once and the dongle will stay in modem mode forever
<ali1234> just send it with picocom
<popey> thats hard, i dont have picocom installed and its hard to get the device online right now
<ali1234> plug it in to ubuntu?
<popey> oh i see
<ali1234> it's a setting stored in the dongle nvram
<ali1234> so it's remembered no matter what
<ali1234> until you change the value to something else
<ali1234> oimon: as usual he's spot on :)
<oimon> on this occasion yes
<oimon> not always though :P
<ali1234> well, i have never seen him write anything that wasn't deadly accurate :)
<oimon> his comments about debian and ubuntu
<ali1234> what did he say about them?
<ali1234> i mean which thing in particular was wrong?
<oimon> "I always felt that Debian was a pointless exercise because to me, the point of a distribution is to make everything easy."
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> accurate
<oimon> debian had not been difficult to install for years
<ali1234> if debian wanted their distro to be easy to use, they wouldn't have built it entirely out of perl
<ali1234> he's not talking about installation
<ali1234> he's a developer, you can assume he's talking about the build system
<oimon> ..he point of a distribution is to make everything easy. Easy to install, to be pretty and to be friendly and Ubuntu did that to Debian
<ali1234> cdbs is not known for being user friendly
<oimon> i do think that he tried debian a quillion years ago and thought that it hadn't moved
<popey> GNNNNNNNN
<ali1234> GNNNNNNNN?
<popey> plug into ubuntu and I have no /dev/ttyUSB*
<oimon> popey has just burst a blood vessel
<ali1234> well you done it wrong then
<popey> yes, i plugged a usb device into a usb port wrong
<ali1234> lol
<Laney> linus should stick to developing a kernel K THX BYE
<ali1234> anyway isn't that what is supposed to happen?
<popey> oh
<popey> i did do it wrong
<ali1234> you don't get ttyUSB until usbmodeswitch runs
<popey> I didnt push it fully :D
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> srsly?
<popey> I suck, yes
<daubers> popey: Must be time for cake
<popey> it's an Asus 1008HA which has silly ports
<popey> OH LOOK! TTYUSB ports!
<oimon> lols
<popey> "Close autorun state result(0:FAIL 1:SUCCESS):1
<popey> thats good, right?
 * czajkowski hands popey a large mug of tea and a marmite sandwich for mid morning snack 
<ali1234> yeah that means... it set the close autorun state :)
<oimon> i have a mozzy bite that's taken over 1/2 of my arm
<popey> so powering up device I see green light
<popey> this is good
<ali1234> is it?
<ali1234> does network manager notice it now?
<popey> its in the router now
<popey> pppd call gprs fails still
<popey> bored of this game now âº
<popey> thanks for your help ali1234
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski a found good morning
 * czajkowski yawns and stabs daubers 
 * czajkowski yawns and stabs davmor2 
 * czajkowski hands daubers cake 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Muhahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahaha  I got daubers stabbed by czajkowski cause of tab
 * daubers looks confused and eats a mars bar at all of you
<davmor2> morning daubers
<dwatkins> collateral damage
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have a fluffy bunny
 * BigRedS sees daubers' mars bar and raises him a coffee and a biscuit
<shauno> \o/ just got a call back for an interview.  trying not to dance too visibly :D
<selinuxium> shauno, Congrats  :)
<dwatkins> nice one, shauno :) hope all goes well
<czajkowski> shauno: congrats , where
<davmor2> shauno: Congrats
<shauno> still in galway.  pretty much a sideways move, to a company that's a lot more interesting
<shauno> been thru so many screening interviews that I'm actually stoked to get to finally meet humans
<AlanBell> daubers: do you have a gigabit switch to bring along?
<daubers> AlanBell: I can do
<czajkowski> just over a week t go :)
<AlanBell> daubers: cool, I can get a little 8 port one for not much, but if you have one handy that would be awesome
<daubers> AlanBell: Yup, got a 48 port one I can borrow
<AlanBell>  wow :)
<daubers> AlanBell: i'm essentially bringing my testing gear :)
<oimon> doh, bought my lunch from sainsburys this morning and it's out of date :(
<MartijnVdS> oimon: by how much?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: and what is it?
<popey> "Best before" != "Poisonous after"
<oimon> MartijnVdS: 1 day, ready meal
<oimon> however its law not to sell out of date goods
<MartijnVdS> popey: products should have a "Poisonous after" date on them
<oimon> tomato+cheese pasta dish
<popey> pfffft
<popey> nanny state
<oimon> i've eaten it, but the cheese tasted a bit hmm
<MartijnVdS> oimon: microwave? then you'll be fine
<popey> the cheese tasted a bit hmm because it was a ready meal :D
<oimon> still a bit "cheesed" off. i always look at the dates but i thought it was the 2nd aug today :(
 * oimon looks at his google+ feed and it's full of popey and nobody else...doesn't seem to be taking off amongst my peers
<popey> invite more peers?
<selinuxium> Must admit that I see my google+ stream is full of tech heads rather than other archetypes.
<selinuxium> And I have invited none tech peers..
<brobostigon> me too,
<oimon> also, it is mostly regurtitated tweets anyway until G+ gains  more traction
<czajkowski> I've really not seen any advantage to it yet
<brobostigon> i would say the only non tech, on my google+ is my mum.
<oimon> also , i don't like seeing stuff from techies that isn't technical, e.g. politics, religion
<oimon> for example if i subscribe to linus torvalds, i want linux, not holiday photos
<BigRedS> Then you want blogs rather than social networking, surely?
<BigRedS> or newsfeeds or something. Something that's not basically a place to talk about holiday photos :)
<oimon> i want google+ being used properly :)
<bigcalm> Who is to say how it should be used?
 * Laney starts following brobostigon's mum
<popey> o_O
<oimon> i would hope that the targeted status updates are the USP of Google+
<Laney> that would mean he has to categorise you
<oimon> on a different subject, i have a folder in ubuntu one folder which is showing the refreshing icon, but u1sdtool thinks it is up to date. website doesn't show the file - how can i fix?
<popey> ---> #ubuntuone
<BigRedS> yeah, you want some way of categorising yourself in the feeds of someone who might not be particularly interested in you...
<oimon> like tags/categories
<oimon> or like gmail labels :)
<bigcalm> A new DMSB! \o/
<daubers> Are any of the novacut people going to oggcamp?
<popey> unlikely they're US based
<daubers> Just had a brief look at dmedia..... I think they've missed an important point
<daubers> Mainly 99.9% of machines won't have drives that can cope with some of the codecs used in the professionaly market
<shauno> for G+ .. I think geeks just want to turn 'circles' into 'venns'
<BigRedS> hah, yeah. I'd quite like to use intersections...
<daubers> AlanBell: I did think of one issue we may have
<daubers> AlanBell: I think you need a tool to get the video files off these video cameras SD cards (it does some magic compression)
<popey> well that sucks
<popey> :D
<daubers> popey: Means you can fit 10x more stuff on an SD card
<daubers> I'll prep up my mac mini just in case
<AlanBell> ooh, ok
<daubers> Also, can't have SDHC cards for the two I'm getting :( People I'm borrowing them from don't have anywhere to ditch the footage thats on them
<AlanBell> ok, what spec do they need for 1 hour footage?
<andrewebdev> I have an idea for a new feature in Unity, where can I post that Idea for the devs?
<daubers> They think their 64GB cards would hold 6 hours
<AlanBell> !unity
<lubotu3> Unity is the default UI for Ubuntu 11.04. Unity is a shell for GNOME. see http://unity.ubuntu.com. You can still boot to the classic GNOME desktop; see !classic.
<AlanBell> andrewebdev: start at unity.ubuntu.com, there is an ideas page on the wiki
<andrewebdev> ok thx
<AlanBell> daubers: so 16GB class 6 would be good?
<daubers> AlanBell: I'd get class 10 if possible
<daubers> AlanBell: You really don't want slow media in these things
<daubers> Class 6 can only write at 6MB/s guarenteed, which is a bit close if you do some HD stuff
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/270747-verbatim-securedigital-sdhc-class10-16gb-43962
<daubers> Whats the cost difference to class 6? Can't be much?
<daubers> Also...what? "SDHC Cards use a FAT32file system, a specification that was established for applications with higher capacity needs and are especially suitable for high-quality video."
<AlanBell> hardly anything, but there are more options at class 6
<daubers> AlanBell: I'd go for class 10, the class just dictates the _minimum_ required write speed
<AlanBell> yes, and the "8 hours" printed on it
<AlanBell> that one is class 10
<daubers> Yeah. The people I speak to who use these things always say class 10. Have you got a class 6 card around?
<AlanBell> http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sort=popularity&limit=10&store=33&cat=36&filtersubcat=446&filterea10=16GB several there
<AlanBell> I do have a class 6 card here, formatted as ext4
<daubers> AlanBell: The math suggests a class 6 should do
<daubers> I think I have a class 6 at home for my DSLR, so shall do a test tomorrow
<AlanBell> however I want to get the data off them fast
<AlanBell>  Timing buffered disk reads:  48 MB in  3.05 seconds =  15.72 MB/sec
<AlanBell> that is the read speed using hdparm -tT /dev/sdb which is a class 6 SD card
<daubers> AlanBell: That should be ok
<daubers> AlanBell: Though writing is more important
<daubers> as it's the camera getting the video on the disk is more important
<AlanBell> writing has to be "fast enough", reading is as fast as it can go
<daubers> Yeah
<AlanBell> ok, so that verbatim one looks good to me, I will get a stack of them
<daubers> cool
<daubers> popey: I see the podcast made the lausoft website http://clausoft.co.uk/
<popey> oh?
<popey> ooo
<popey> its not a bad little device
<popey> very nice of them to let us give it away
<daubers> does it play minecraft?
 * apw finds their website very confusing
<apw> it seems as if they only have second-hand white ones?
<gord> the 90's taught me not to buy white plastic components ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Farewell, UCycle! - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/08/farewell-ucycle/
<shauno> I discovered that putting plastic components in the washing machine works surprisingly well
<shauno> much easier than trying to find out where to buy retrobite
<davmor2> Daviey: is the server backup still recommending a shell script or is there some software specific to server being added, out of curiosity?
<Daviey> davmor2: not currently on the roadmap, personal preference is rsnapshot
<Daviey> afk
<AlanBell> so what is a good export setting in OpenShot for uploading video?
<dogmatic69> is there something like pastebinit for screenshots?
<DJones> !imagebin
<lubotu3> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<dogmatic69> no
<DJones> Ah sorry, pastebinit rather than just a pasebin site
<dogmatic69> cat /path/to/image.png | screenshotit -
<dogmatic69> something like that
<shauno> that's you telt
<DJones> Heh
<dogmatic69> ye
<DJones> Can't say I've heard of anything like that
<shauno> it's not quite what you're asking for at all, but I set the output path for my screenshots, to my dropbox/Public dir.  turns the built-in functionality into insta-uploads
<dogmatic69> shauno: then you need to open dropbox to see the link
<shauno> I'm sure you could botch around that.  I think the dl.dropbox.com/blahblah/ part is user-specific.  so you just need to tack the filename on the end
<shauno> but yeah.  as I said, not really what you're looking for.  but comes in handy for me
<dogmatic69> possibly
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a7m8c5pNAo does that video look acceptable? it is quite a low bitrate
<dogmatic69> :D
<popey> wont play here
<dogmatic69> works for me
<popey> (no flash)
<dogmatic69> looks reasonable too
<popey> what export settings from pitivi did you use AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> openshot
<AlanBell> PAL square widescreen, video bitrate 384kbit/s mpeg2
<popey> eww
<gord> so mpeg2 has problems that you can't really get around no matter how high the bitrate
<gord> you'll get better quality if you encode to mp4 (h264) at the same bitrate
<popey> yup
<AlanBell> ok
<popey> h264 and 720p
<popey> assuming source is 720p
<popey> PAL will downscale it
<oimon> any puppet users in here? #puppet isn't helping
<AlanBell> it isn't, it is PAL widescreen
<popey> also if you use h264 then I believe the html5 renderer will work
<popey> i.e. people wont need flash to watch it :D
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> I am trying to find a reasonable compromise of quality, encode time and upload time
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: the answer is better internet :D
<popey> I dont think upload time should be a factor
<popey> if it takes 20 years to upload, it will be better than last year :D
<czajkowski> stupid hoops one has to jump through *mutters*
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: I got better internet, 1.6MB upload speed
<oimon> i decided i hate video format and encoding
<oimon> having a right palaver with a scratched dvd
<oimon> it's not worth the time and effort
<AlanBell> hmm, h.264 at 720p is a 152MB file for 5 minutes of video
<AlanBell> so about 3GB for an hour
 * popey checks his h264 video
<AlanBell> and the audio didn't work
<popey> i use ffmpeg for my encoding
<popey> makes smaller videos than that
<kazade> afternoon all
<popey> gord: any chance the drop shadow on the top panel in Unity in 11.10 will be done differently?
<popey> having it as an overlay on top is a bit detrimental
<gord> popey, how so?
<popey> record a screencast with it enabled
<popey> it knackers the video as it keeps getting redrawn on top of windows
<gord> popey, have you tested that with 11.10? i thought that stuff had been fixed..
<popey> bug 764579
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 764579 could not be found
<popey> oh
<popey> bug 763579
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 763579 in unity (Ubuntu) "Panel drop shadow causes issues for screencasting apps" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/763579
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/763579/+attachment/2053354/+files/110417-135017-screencast.ogv
<popey> i have not because I can't get 11.10 working with nvidia on my desktop!
<popey> will try tonight though
<gord> great, because that should be fixed :)
 * oimon is riding the oneiric merry go round of wondering what will be on the power button menu today
<popey> what should be fixed?
<popey> nvidia or the panel shadow?
<oimon> today it's everything and the kitchen sink, except for "reboot"
<gord> popey, all the corruption, nvidia never stopped working...
 * gord has been running 11.10 with nvidia for months
<popey> hmm
<popey> okay will try harder
<popey> is there a meta package for unity 3d?
<popey> i can only get unity 2d working
<popey> it never boots to 3d
<gord> ubuntu-desktop? ;)
<apw> popey, isn't that just ubuntu-desktop^
 * popey shrugs
<gord> or unity should bring in what you need
<apw> as in apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<apw> which will install recommends: which have gotten lost
<popey> actually I can chroot it from here and update it
<Laney> what does the ^ do?
 * Laney bad developer
<WorMzy> Indicates a tasksel group
<Laney> this is different from the meta package how?
<popey> works nicely
<Laney> treats everything as depends?
<popey> good for people who remove stuff
<popey> good for putting bits back that people yank rather
<popey> 285 upgraded, 10 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
<popey> hehe, not updated my 11.10 system recently there :D
<bigcalm> I'm currently using the "classic" gnome desktop, will I lose it come 12.04?
<Laney> there's a gnome fallback desktop
<bigcalm> I actually want to keep my layout
<AlanBell> bigcalm: that will probably be clarified at UDS
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> But nothing crazy is happening in 11.10 I take it?
<popey> define $crazy
<bigcalm> :D
<Laney> metacity still exists
<bigcalm> Enforcing Unity
<oimon> how well does the gnome shell fallback work?
<oimon> i'm not perverse enough to load fedora on my box to try it
<bigcalm> Slightly annoying that the "Post to: twitter" box in the user thing doesn't show the insert carrot
<AlanBell> gah, why am I bouncing in and out?
<AlanBell> you mean caret?
<bigcalm> Most likely :)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/658717/
<popey> i blame apw for that :D
<bigcalm> Living on the edge!
<popey> been sat there for 30 mins
<apw> popey, is that oneiric (assume so) ?
<krimzon2> I wonder if I can implement a tree-style-tab style sidebar for all windows in gnome 3
<popey> yes
<popey> chrooted from natty
<apw> i known dkms is borked there
<popey> aha
 * popey ctrl+c's that
<popey> progress
<apw> but, ... that looks like its at the update-grub phase
<bigcalm> What's the biggest benefit of 3 over 2.6?  When we went from 2.4 to 2.6, the biggest change was iptables over ipchains
 * popey hugs ssd
<popey> bigcalm: nothing
<apw> bigcalm, none, it was purely cause linus cannot count >39
<bigcalm> Haha
<apw> i
<apw> oh an he wanted to make my life a misery for a few weeks fixing all the fallout
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Fixing odd characters - http://www.myrant.net/2011/08/04/fixing-odd-characters/
<directhex> bigcalm, ipchains was 2.2
<directhex> bigcalm, he biggest changes in 2.6 were in the threading model - nptl
<AlanBell> ok, h.264 at a video bit rate of 1.25Mb/sec at NTSC widescreen (480 vertical) seems to be a decent option to me
<AlanBell> 10MB for 1 minute of video
<AlanBell> looks like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSpPOVMwN9o
<bigcalm> Never The Same Colour
<popey> also, do two-pass h264 encoding
<popey> why 480?
<popey> oh, source is PAL?
<AlanBell> because youtube does 480
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, but in this context ntsc is just a resolution
<popey> youtube does way more than 480
<AlanBell> 1280x720 is just huge though
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: hold the chicken pointing at the camera then move its body around :D
<AlanBell> the html5 viewer doesn't seem to work with it though
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: he's already done that
<dogmatic69> :S
<bigcalm> Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hBpF_Zj4OA - works fine on my phone but not as html5 in my desktop browser :(
 * popey tickles marxjohnson 
 * marxjohnson giggles like a schoolgirl
<popey> I have heard this noise before
<popey> It is a schoolgirl with a very large adams apple
<davmor2> popey: that's not something to admit on a logged channel surely :D
<bigcalm> Heh
<czajkowski> that was not an image I needed
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Looks like the image worried a few too much
<gord> AlanBell, if you want to guarantee html5 compatibility then you might want to upload as webm - no idea how to do that though
<gord> *subscribes to learn about chickens*
<AlanBell> I want to encode an hour of video in less than an hour
<ormiret> AlanBell: what kind of spec is the machine doing the encoding?
<gord> AlanBell, also, that latest video is running in html5 here
<gord> it just takes a while for them to do the conversion i think
<AlanBell> silly silly BT and their crappy FTTC modems
<AlanBell> ormiret: encoding on a fairly low spec box, atom or above
<AlanBell> will throw more power or more boxes at it if required
<AlanBell> gord: yeah, runs for me in html5 now too
<AlanBell> I can't see any point in encoding (or recording) at 720p
<ormiret> Might struggle to get better than real time on an atom
 * MartijnVdS hates banshee a little more
<Azelphur> Are there any mobile broadband providers that'll give you pay as you go with no expiry?
<Azelphur> so I can have redundant internet :p
<MartijnVdS> not anymore, I think
<Azelphur> :/
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: if you were in the Netherlands, I'd tell you to use XS4ALL -- we offer a special DSL modem with 3G stick attached as a backup
<Azelphur> hehe nice
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: (and 128kbit by default, upgradeable to 7.2mbit for a day at a time, until your DSL is fixed)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> shame we can't have shiny things here :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: It's the EU, you can move and work here without special visa requirements ;)
<Azelphur> yea, but we have canonical
<Azelphur>  /point /laugh
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha just asked three live support "Is there any deal that would be suitable for a backup internet connection?" "No."
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Sure, get one of their plans and pay monthly ;)
<Azelphur> haha, that's what they actually said to me though, that's a quote :D
 * MartijnVdS wants to state publicly, for the record, that I did not hack Azelphur's voice mail :P
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> there'd be no point there's nothing on it
<gord> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/linus-torvalds-would-like-to-see-a-gnome-fork/9347 *cough* kinda sounds like he wants unity to me ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: bias? :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: btw, I reinstalled and unity works fine now
<gord> he wants expose, wobbly windows, shortcuts on your desktop, we got all them!
<ali1234> i would expect he wants expose that actually works, not the crap version in unity
<ali1234> also unity does not have wobbly windows and presents no method to enable it
<gord> *wobbles his windows*
<MartijnVdS> !family | gord
<davmor2> gord: but he says Ubuntu is no use for kernel development but very good for it's target audience too :)
<ali1234> given that one of the things he explicitly does not like about gnome 3 is that it makes it unnecessarily difficult to open new windows, can you seriously claim that he would not have the same problem with unity?
<gord> sorry ali1234, i can't hear you over the sound of my windows wobbling!
<davmor2> ali1234: no it's a doddle
<ali1234> "Now I need to use Shift-Control-N in an old terminal to bring up a new one." which is exactly the same thing we were told about opening new firefox windows
<ali1234> and terminal windows for that matter
<ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Making mountains out of molehills - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/08/mountains-out-of-molehills/
<popey> davmor2: lies
<ali1234> yeah it's really easy as long as you only ever middle click on the launcher, and just use it like a very stupid looking start menu
<davmor2> popey: it is middle click the icon on the launcher done
<popey> my laptop has no middle button
<MartijnVdS> popey: left + right at the same time then
<popey> yes, I know that
<popey> so i have to do some kind of contortion with my hand
<popey> its unnatural
<ali1234> anyway there's not much point us debating what linus likes or does not like
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: unless we're discussing what to buy him for christmas :P
<popey> a 3 button mouse?
<ali1234> if your mouse only has 3 buttons you are doing it wrong
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I have a 3-button SERIAL mouse here
<popey> me too âº
<ali1234> point?
<ali1234> i have a box full of old mice, i'm sure some of them are serial
<ali1234> can't think of a reason to use them though
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: if you ever get your hands on a 386 with Windows 3.1
<davmor2> popey: mines usb so technically serial :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you'll know :)
<ali1234> if it's serial it's either mechanical or it's one of those old sun mice that needs the shiny metal mouse mat
<ali1234> and those were even less reliable than mechanical ones
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's mechanical, Logitech
<ali1234> also, why ever would i run any version of windows on real hardware?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you don't have that sadistic streak?
<ali1234> i put it to better use
<MartijnVdS> bitcoin mining?
<ali1234> well yes
<ali1234> in any case, why do something that was already done years ago?
 * MartijnVdS wonders: buy a i7 2600K now, or wait for the new top-of-the-line i7 next year (Ivy Bridge)
<ali1234> if you have a good reason there's virtualization, and that won't require any special hardware
<MartijnVdS> and no, "both" isn't an option ;)
<ali1234> you should wait for the new i7 next year, and then buy the old one, which will be much cheaper
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, also, it'll be much slower compared to the top of the line then
<ali1234> not really, unless you are using integrated graphics
<MartijnVdS> I am
<ali1234> then wait for ivy bridge
<daftykins> upgrading is so last century
<daftykins> :D
<popey> hello GirlyGirl
<GirlyGirl> hi
<czajkowski> GirlyGirl: hi
<GirlyGirl> hi
<GirlyGirl> why all the hi's
<Azelphur> Because we're going for the hi score.
<jacobw> http://www.ai-class.com/
<apw> gah
<apw>                    
 * apw must unplug keybaord before performing keybaord surgury
<GirlyGirl> Is it possible that crashing my car can cause it to steer slightly right?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> repeatedly driving over the kerb at high speed can do it too
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: yes, sounds like it needs some alignment/balancing
<ali1234> eg when parking
<apw> GirlyGirl, which corner did you hit
<GirlyGirl> I hit a van
<jacobw> Have you taken your car to a garage since the impact?
<GirlyGirl> yes Â£1000 fix for the car
<apw> but yes, any sort of impact can affect the tracking, if its not done right you could have a lean to one side
<GirlyGirl> wondering if I should do it
<jacobw> What speed did you hit the van at?
<GirlyGirl> don't really know
<jacobw> Depends how much the car is worth
<GirlyGirl> I just bought the car, it had this woolen floormat and my stiletto caught caught so I couldn't brake fast enough and I hit the van. I only bought the car a few hours earlier.
<davmor2> GirlyGirl: take your car to a tyre place and get the tracking and wheel alignment done cost you Â£20ish
<GirlyGirl> davmor2: can I do that without fixing damage
<GirlyGirl> davmor2: let me find a picture of a similar car with damage one moment
<daftykins> wow this channel's branching out
<davmor2> GirlyGirl: Ah sorry I thought you had that work done,  there is no point till that work is done
<GirlyGirl> got to change that floor mat though don't want such a think again
<daftykins> you could keep a sensible pair of shoes in the car to drive with too?
<GirlyGirl> it looks a bit like this http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/177975511x.jpg/ but the car moves
<GirlyGirl> daftykins: I can drive fine with low heels another floor matt will do the trick
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> sounds unsafe to me :D
<GirlyGirl> daftykins: its fine I can drive comfortably in them
<apw> GirlyGirl, for real?  if it looks anything like that you'll get arrested driving it
<GirlyGirl> in fact I find it easier to pivot
<GirlyGirl> apw: yes but the hood is more flat down
<apw> i'd not drive it either way
<popey> GirlyGirl: is that your car?
<GirlyGirl> popey: no
<popey> ok
<GirlyGirl> it was just my bad luck that the ex-owner put a woolen mat
<jacobw> woolen mats are safe
<oimon1> my wife is watching twilight while i'm on the laptop and doing the washing up. it's quite possibly the worst thing i've ever laid eyes on
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> that kiddy vampire film?
<jacobw> stiletto heels are not
<AlanBell> !ping
<lubotu3> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and they ask me to respond to factoid requests. Call that job satisfaction? Because I don't.
<oimon1> daftykins: the acting is terrible
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> oimon1: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-clv3kbbtMyw/Tc2XQZrYpuI/AAAAAAAAAqo/9gqPasMNa-0/s1600/129145980065363434.jpg
 * Azelphur runs
<GirlyGirl> jacobw: they are fine! its not like I take something sky high agreed with a woolen mat they are unsafe
<oimon1> Azelphur: i don't even know much about it , except it's BAD
<Azelphur> lol
<AlanBell> Azelphur: um, no, don't post that
<Azelphur> :(
<jacobw> i have a team jacob mug :)
<oimon1> video encoding takes forever on this core 2 duo :(
<oimon1> downthrottling due to thermal overload
<GirlyGirl> jacobw: In fact the accident was the van's fault, the matt just prevented me from avoiding it. But like a fool, I mentioned my heels getting stuck and agreed to a no-insurance each fixes his/her vehicle deal
<oimon1> sounds fair enough
<jacobw> :o
<jacobw> yeah, that was a mistake
 * popey boots into oneiric
<popey> gord, apw run for you lives
<oimon1> popey: check out the top right power button menu..kinda busy right now :)
<popey> i look forward to it
<popey> ah bum
<popey> backup running, i just killed it
<popey> ah well
<davmor2> popey: HAHA!
<popey> hurrah
<oimon1> did you see the photos of the monkey that took pics of itself? i wonder if they are rotated/cropped a tad
<popey> 11.10 wont boot
<popey> ata_id[312] HDIO_GET_IDENTITY failed for '/dev/sdd': Invalid argument
<popey> lovely
 * popey tries recovery mode
<popey> better
<oimon1> popey, which machine?
<popey> desktop
 * popey dist-upgrades
<popey> yay, those packages that were borked earlier are fine now
 * popey reboots
<popey> eek, windows 7
<popey> thats unexpected
<ali1234> OMGZORS
<GirlyGirl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvloPFYocw
<popey> not seen that for a while
<popey> golly!
<popey> I can haz 3d accelerated desktop
<popey> ok, what happened to CTRL+ALT+T for terminal
<popey> where did the keyboard shortcuts thing go?
<GirlyGirl> you guys/girls like unity?
<popey> i find it okay
<MartijnVdS> it works most of the time
<oimon1> not my desktop of choice, but it could be, with a few tweaks
<ali1234> it sucks
<popey> nice spectrum of opinion there
<czajkowski> popey: it works, but slow I find I do it multiple times then it opens up
<oimon1> i want the launcher to work more like my dock
<GirlyGirl> I find it very uncustomisable, like you cannot make the interface how you want it .. of course I'm a kubuntu user so I shouldn't complain
<ali1234> i want the launcher to work less like a dock
<ali1234> because docks are the worst idea in UI design since the weird thing the archimedes used
<oimon1> the screw?
<oimon1> or the mirror to burn ships
<popey> wheeee totem segfault
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's like that on oneiric atm
<MartijnVdS> popey: and vlc crashes the unity-window-decorator :)
 * oimon1 used to have an archimedes
<popey> i do love bug reports where people out themselves as having pirated movies / tv programmes
<popey> bug 816740
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 816740 in totem (Ubuntu) "totem crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_name()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/816740
 * GirlyGirl really wishes she has learnt about the incompatibility of stilettos and woollen floor-mats without an accident
<oimon1> :(
<popey> gord: no, that bug i mentioned earlier is not fixed
<popey> bug http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=196
<oimon1> popey: they may have ripped the dvd themselves?
<popey> uhm
<popey> dunno how that got pasted :D
<popey> oimon1: dont even bother
<popey> bug 763579
<popey> that one
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 763579 in unity (Ubuntu) "Panel drop shadow causes issues for screencasting apps" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/763579
 * popey uploads a video
<popey> uhm, i cant delete files in nautilus
<czajkowski> popey: wow you're really just breaking things today
 * hamitron sends popey a "newbie guide"
<popey> whats the gnome keyboard app thing called?
<popey> oh its merged with the kb applet thing
<GirlyGirl> popey: Why are you on 11.10 again?
<popey> testing
<ali1234> so does it work on nvidia yet?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> i mean with the proper driver, not nouveau
<czajkowski> popey: brave man
<popey> yes
<popey> this is why my desktop has four SSDs
<popey> so i can multiboot and not cause aggro for other distros
<ali1234> does it work simply because they haven't upgraded xorg yet?
<popey> bug 821098
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 821098 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Cant change keyboard shortcuts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/821098
 * popey shrugs
<popey> xorg 7.6
<popey> nvidia 275.09.07
<oimon1> popey - do you have a reboot option on your machine?
<oimon1> i only see shutdown or suspend
<ali1234> !info xorg natty
<popey> i do not
<lubotu3> xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X Window System. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.6+4ubuntu3.1 (natty), package size 1 kB, installed size 44 kB
<ali1234> !info xorg oneiric
<lubotu3> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<popey> lock, logout, suspend, shut down
 * ali1234 slaps lubotu3
<popey> hmm, locale is busted
<MartijnVdS> \o/ installed a "real" cert on my NAS
<popey> http://one.ubuntu.com/18PQ
<popey> what on earth do I do there?
<popey> http://one.ubuntu.com/p/18PQ
<MartijnVdS> popey: Imagine you're back in 1968, I guess
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> lo
<MartijnVdS> howdy moodooman
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> any idea what package adds teh locale stuff?
<MartijnVdS> popey: language-pack-*
<MartijnVdS> ?
<popey> ah
<popey> nice one
 * brobostigon returns
<MooDoo> welcome back
<brobostigon> :) thank you MooDoo
<brobostigon> torchwood :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: not into it for some reason :S
<MooDoo> i'm trying
<brobostigon> it is quite different to previous.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: the previous was quite english, now, because this is partly designed by an american production company for primary broadcast in america, it does have substantial american style elements, therefore, my logic would tell me, that american style does not appeal to you.
<brobostigon> please tell me, if i am reading too much into it.
<bigcalm> popey: plug in your laptop!
<popey> eh?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Or he doesn't like Jack :)
<bigcalm> The battery icon is showing an empty red battery
<MartijnVdS> for me too
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the face of boe :)
<popey> bigcalm: its a desktop :D
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have a few (female) friends who almost faint when they see him... 8-)
<bigcalm> Silly APC
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool :)
<bigcalm> Gah, that was the enter key, not backspace
<bigcalm> Silly apci?
 * popey shrugs
<popey> GPM I guess
<MartijnVdS> my desktop (no UPS attached) shows a battery icon.. I guess "silly power-indicator"
<bigcalm> My desktop is plugged into a UPS, but it's doesn't think it's on a battery (windows did)
<popey> wow
<popey> gnome 3 really is properly dumbed down isnt it?
<popey> seems like great swathes of the UI has just been thrown away
<MartijnVdS> "You won't need those, we know better than you"
<popey> yeah
<popey> by the way, pro-tip of today
<popey> clamp a bulldog clip to the desk, use it as a cable tidy :D
 * bigcalm wonders what to do with his evening (have been told not to do work)
<czajkowski> so you come to irc for entertainment
<bigcalm> czajkowski: Hayley is working
<MartijnVdS> popey: I use binder clips at work
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Binder_clip.JPG
<popey> yeah, them
<popey> we call them bulldog clips
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: That's a bulldog clip
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Bulldog_Clip_2.jpg
<popey> which, I'll admit is a dumb name
<MartijnVdS> that's a bulldog clip :)
<bigcalm> Humm
<popey> ah
<popey> Thanks for the English lesson Johnny Foreigner!
<bigcalm> Heh
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<bigcalm> Binder clips are nicer
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Jan de Buitenlander" then
<MartijnVdS> 14 mbit just isn't enough :(
<MartijnVdS> well 15
<MartijnVdS> but 14 effectively
<Azelphur> exclusive leaked content from valve, http://i.imgur.com/9Kty0.png :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: haha
<Azelphur> :D
<TheHypnotist> anyone available to modify the events calendar
<AlanBell> TheHypnotist: which calendar did you mean?
<TheHypnotist> http://london.hackspace.org.uk/events/
<AlanBell> wrong channel
<AlanBell> you want #london-hack-space TheHypnotist
<TheHypnotist> ohhh hah
<TheHypnotist> thanks, I thought it was on auto :/
<TheHypnotist> :$
<AlanBell> np :)
<locodir-user_> hi!
<locodir-user_> Question 1: does anyone knows how to get rid of "unlock keyring" in chrome? I am using 11.04
<AlanBell> hi locodir-user_
<AlanBell> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=72499
<AlanBell> I think you have hit that issue
<locodir-user_> Hi AlanBell. Yes, it seems the same issue, but I am kind of a newbie and didn't understand how they solve it...
<locodir-user_> any thoughts?
<AlanBell> um, not sure really
<AlanBell> something to do with the gnome keyring and/or the chrome profile
<AlanBell> does the gnome keyring thing pop up at other times?
<AlanBell> do you use a password to log on to your desktop or have you set it to log on automatically?
<AlanBell> you might want to try deleting the chrome profile or creating another one
<locodir-user_> just when I start chrome and go to gmail. I have it to log on automatically
<locodir-user_> i am going to try to delete chrome profile
<AlanBell> night all o/
<locodir-user_> thanks Alan
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-05
<Mez> anyone here good with snort?
<shauno> morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning folks
<diplo> Morning all
<Laney> howdy
<bigcalm> Good morning :)
<DJones> Morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi DJones
<shauno> wow.  japan really needs a new timezone
<bigcalm> ...
<Laney> you broke the hello train :(
<shauno> 2 hours on the phone, and it's not even breakfast yet.  that's just inhumane
<shauno> Laney: sorry .. wet leaves on the track
<bigcalm> We should migrate to a dyson sphere
<bigcalm> It'll be day all the time then
 * AlanBell is off to London this afternoon
<AlanBell> to Microsoft towers :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: fraternizing with the enemy? ;)
<AlanBell> sneaking into Mordor
<AlanBell> http://yrs2011.eventbrite.com/ anyone else want to come?
<oimon> leave a ubuntu usb stick near the water coolre ;)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I thought YRS was only for <18s ;)
<AlanBell> this is the show and tell bit
<MartijnVdS> hm, that's near my hotel from a few weeks ago
 * bigcalm just had a funny thought
<bigcalm> Some surnames came about due to a profession: Smith, Cooper, etc
<bigcalm> I wonder if that'll ever happen with modern day jobs
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "John Q. Hacker"
<bigcalm> Andrew Webdev for instance ;)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew East] Ubuntu Membership and Contributions to Upstream Projects - http://www.mdke.org/?p=118
<AlanBell> David Django
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Django is a given name
<JamesTait> Good morning everyone!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, some surnames come from land ownership :)
<bigcalm> Indeed, I was just amused by andrewebdev's surname ;)
<andrewebdev> :)
<andrewebdev> mine is profession :P
<MartijnVdS> What about titles for IP space? Duke of 10.0.0.0/24, etc.
<MartijnVdS>  /8
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<apw> AlanBell, what the heck are those even about ?  the titles make no sense
<AlanBell> apw: what titles?
<apw> AlanBell, sorry was paged up in my scroll-back so there was more context here than there, the ones for the m$ things
<AlanBell> oh, the Young Rewired State thing, it isn't an M$ event
<AlanBell> meh, they are just ticket types, they mean nothing
<apw> oh that makes much more sense
<DJones> I read that as "Young Retired State", was beginning to think it was a way of cutting the number job seekers, just say that school leavers are retired, jobless totals would drop like a stone
<AlanBell> http://youngrewiredstate.org/
<AlanBell> issyl0 is a participant
<DJones> AlanBell: Yes, I've noticed her tweets about it
<DJones> Sounds like she's had a good time tehre
<oimon> will anyone be using google+ for oggcamp?
<AlanBell> oimon: what do you mean?
<diplo> oimon, you mentioned a dvd/book catalogue software you used.. I've reinstalled and forgot what it was.. can you enlighten me :)
<oimon> AlanBell: not sure of the right term, but are they hangouts or huddles or something? basically the equivalent of #oggcamp on twitter
<oimon> diplo: tellico? alexandria?
<diplo> tellico maybe it, I was using alexandria
<diplo> Thanks
<bigcalm> The occasional tweet maybe, but most of my time will be talking/listening to people via analogue means
<popey> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning popey. Well done to you and lady popey :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: congratifications :)
<popey> thanks :D
<issyl0> AlanBell: See you later.
<daubers> Morning
<dogmatic69> what is 10.10 called?
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames
<daubers> !10.10
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) was the thirteenth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.10/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1010
<oimon> !lmgtfy
<lubotu3> While Google is useful for helpers, many newer users don't have the google-fu yet. Please don't tell people to "google it" when they ask a question.
<Laney> hah, that backfired
<oimon> just wondering ;)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<AlanBell> !12.04
<AlanBell> should get a name for that fairly soon, natty was announced on 17th August
<dogmatic69> :D
<oimon> Perfect Penguin
<popey> It's bound to be something unpronounceable
<oimon> Pyrrhic Pterosaur
<oimon> boo.. wanted to try new gwibber in 11.10 and it's broken
<czajkowski> Aloha
<brobostigon> morning czajkowski
<AlanBell> http://ccgi.psmith12.plus.com/visradius/generated/image13125352198806.png this is what crappy BT VSDSL modem does to your connection
<AlanBell> I have a big fan blowing into it to keep the temperature down and the line up
<Daviey> It took me a month to stop myself just calling Oneiric O-Series.
<Daviey> I suspect P will be the same :)
<oimon> two typo's on one line in the latest puppet textbook. the linus typo is the most common one in geekdom: http://ubuntuone.com/p/18Ve/
<oimon> i just discovered that i can upload photos directly to ubuntu one from my android! excellent! :)
<Daviey> The last text book i looked at was documenting work i was doing.. I opened it full of excitement, and ~4 technical errors jumped out at me.
<AlanBell> Daviey: isn't that an RS/6000
<Daviey> AlanBell: hah
<czajkowski> Daviey: but but.... calling it P P is gonna sound worse
<AlanBell> I wanna p-p
<AlanBell> czajkowski: are you going to the YRS thing?
<czajkowski> the what now/
<AlanBell> are you busy this afternoon?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: young rewired state
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> can't I'm afraid
<oimon> i don't think the future generation will know what wires are
<Laney> hope so
<MartijnVdS> the or a future generation? :)(
<oimon> theora?
<oimon> maybe they will be the theora generation
 * oimon scratches chin ponderously
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> or rather strokes chin. head=scratch chin=stroke
<Daviey> czajkowski: reminds me of mumble's voice saying outloud ":P"
<Daviey> yes colon-peee.
<popey> what does it say for thorn?
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(letter)
<dutchie> :Ã¾
<davmor2> Daviey: yes mumble does come out with some good ones
<Daviey> popey: no idea, sorry.
<czajkowski> I love the way mdke writes. He expresses himself really well
<apw> will have to have a word, we don't want people understanding other people, that way lies madness
 * AlanBell has 6 16GB class 10 SD cards \o/
<apw> (and no money?)
<popey> heh
<AlanBell> Timing buffered disk reads:  52 MB in  3.02 seconds =  17.23 MB/sec
<apw> i hear rumours that if you put ext4 on them, class 10 card can be slower than class 6
<apw> something to do with stripe layouts
<AlanBell> interesting
<popey>  Timing buffered disk reads: 366 MB in  3.02 seconds = 121.35 MB/sec
<popey> :D
<AlanBell> these are staying fat32 for the moment
<popey> (unfair comparison)
<AlanBell> is that SSD?
<popey> ya
<popey> the cheapest one I own
<MartijnVdS> how do I test this?
<AlanBell> hdparm -tT /dev/sdb
<MartijnVdS>  Timing cached reads:   10042 MB in  2.00 seconds = 5023.66 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 638 MB in  3.01 seconds = 212.27 MB/sec
<MartijnVdS> hm
<Laney> how exciting, my powerline networking kit arrived
<MartijnVdS> popey: ^^ New intel SSD ("510" model)
<MartijnVdS> popey: (SATA-600 on SATA-300 interface)
<popey> sweet!
<popey> Laney: yay!
<Laney> connecting a desktop via wireless is the pits
 * Laney hopes it works
<AlanBell> connecting a server via wireless is worse
<Laney> well, that's how I mainly use it (ssh)
<Daviey> AlanBell: we do include wpa-supplicant on server, what more do you want?! :)
<AlanBell> I gave up and moved it to the wires
<oimon> linux-firmware-nonfree would be nice :P
<Daviey> probably wise.
<davmor2> czajkowski: have a hug, Morning!
<Laney> sixxs probably hate me for the tunnel going down all the time
<Daviey> Laney: sixxs hate everyone.
<Laney> my precious ISK :(
<Daviey> Laney: they refused me a tunnel :)
<Laney> oh yeah, you have to apply don't you?
<Laney> seemed a formality to me
<Daviey> Laney: No.. they refused my application. :(
<Laney> how sad
<Daviey> (others have heard this from me already)
<Daviey> Laney: They complained my mail was compliant with their policy
<Daviey> .. so i read the policy and it declared that you need two mx records.
<Daviey> I added a secondary mx record just for them.
<Daviey> They said it was still not ok, and i was to use an "ISP supplied email address"
<Daviey> So i setup sixxs@$ISP.com which was retrieved by fetchmail into my INBOX.
<MartijnVdS> how old-fashioned
<Daviey> And that still wasn't ok... then they stopped replying to my emails
<Laney> hah
<Laney> I understand @ubuntu gets you some credit
<Daviey> bullcrap :)
<Daviey> Laney: I think i tried using that.. and that only has one mx record.
<Laney> dunno, I didn't use an ISP address and only have one MX â¦
<shauno> I just use HE.  they don't tell me off. evar.
<Laney> my laptop uses teredo
<Daviey> HE++
 * MartijnVdS pets native IPv6 over DSL
<oimon> broke my svn setup :(
<MartijnVdS> oimon: switch to bzr, git, hg
<oimon> how can i fix "svn: warning: 'etc' is already under version control"
<MartijnVdS> don't svn add it again?
<oimon> svn list doesn't show it
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ##subversion?
<oimon> it was copied from somewhere else
<oimon> #ubuntu-uk is more friendly to noobs
<oimon> :)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: does it contain a .svn directory/directories?
<oimon> ./etc doesn't but the powd does
<MartijnVdS> then I'd still suggest ##subversion, and switching to a proper DVCS
 * oimon tries
<davmor2> Hey popey how did your oneiric update go?
<oimon> MartijnVdS: #svn were v helpful :D
<popey> davmor2: it worked
<popey> davmor2: i have an oneiric desktop install now
<czajkowski> http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1981804631/estwhdr  folks seen this
<Daviey> popey: you FOOL
<popey> dual boot
<popey> :D
<popey> not that silly, silly
 * popey points davmor2 at the question he asked in -testing
<Daviey> heh
<AlanBell> aquarius: feel free to mail the list with the u1 thibg
<aquarius> AlanBell, er...huh?
 * oimon just noticed that graze are looking for a unix sysadmin :)
<shauno> I heard the pay is peanuts :/
<oimon> badum-ching
<oimon> "A graze account with unlimited free boxes"
<shauno> noticed ;)
<oimon> skinny guys get preference at the interview stage
<Daviey> I tend to avoid progressing unlucky people.
<Daviey> "Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them. " -- David Brent.
<oimon> lol
<oimon> you've touched upon the calvinist theological doctrine of election there.
<davmor2> Daviey: I've seen this approach before you throw all the cv's in the air the ones that land in the bin are naturally unlucky right ;)
<AlanBell> aquarius: the app dev evening thing
<Daviey> davmor2: oh aye.
<davmor2> aquarius: http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1981804631/estwhdr this one,  AlanBell is saying to post it to the ubuntu uk mailing list :)
<AlanBell> yes
<aquarius> ah, right, yes :)
<aquarius> Cool, I'll do that. I want to write a blog post myself for my site first :)
<Daviey> AlanBell: Are you trying to suggest that aquarius send The App Developer event to the ubuntu-uk mailing list?
<aquarius> AlanBell, thanks
<aquarius> I'm gonna ping a bunch of people near manchester too :)
 * AlanBell plugs laptop into phone and starts typing longer and more eloquent sentences
<Daviey> (it would be easier to spoof an email from aquarius, than try and explain your point to that rabbit)
<AlanBell> \o/ to events not in London
<AlanBell> even though I like events in London, it is nice to spread things about
<aquarius> exactly
<AlanBell> aquarius: for bonus points you could put it on the loco directory
<aquarius> I could, if I knew how; do tell!
<Daviey> god luck with that... the server is down.
<Daviey> good*
<AlanBell> first you need a launchpad account . . .
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk log in there and click create new event when the server is unbroken
<AlanBell> Daviey: should have used Ensemble
<davmor2> AlanBell: what Daviey said
<Daviey> AlanBell: exactly!
<Daviey> :)
<czajkowski> up to this week I'd never heard of Ensemble or Orchestra
<oimon> maybe that's because you haven't got your head in the clouds ho-ho-ho
 * daubers needs to put together a short script that calculates the buzzword density of any given text
<oimon> the whole eucalyptus / openstack thing reminds me of the xen/kvm thing
<Daviey> oimon: nah, it is totally different.
<bigcalm> Buzzword bingo for the live show at oggcamp :)
<Daviey> usr/share/octopussy/AAT/INC/AAT_PageTop.inc:26:  "open-flash-chart.swf", "open_flash_chart",
<Daviey> oops, clipboard fail
<oimon> Daviey: are ubuntu going forward with eucalyptus , openstack or both? loads of xen adopters with redhat were peeved when they had to switch to kvm
<Daviey> oimon: Openstack will be in main, Eucalyptus is pending being moved to universe.
<Daviey> oimon: One of the primary reasons for the choice of kvm vs xen, was that xen was a horrible patchset which was a real PITA to maintain.
<Daviey> kvm made it mainline kernel.
<Daviey> Now xen is mainline, you'll notice it's also in main :)
<Daviey> (although depwait on a depends which is awaiting promotion)
<Daviey> kvm will still remain our favoured tho.
<oimon> i had to choose a solution at around that time and was compelled to choose vmware
<oimon> redhat couldn't get their act together on providing any real product to manage kvm , meanwhile xen was out of favour
<oimon> is it possible to buy android apps using paypal? had my phone 18 months but never actually bought an app
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it uses Google Checkout
<oimon> MartijnVdS: does that allow me to use paypal to pay?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: no, it's a paypal competitor
<oimon> oh :(
<oimon> that sux
<MartijnVdS> I trust google more than I trust paypal/ebay
<oimon> i rather have to trust 1 rather than 2 though
<bigcalm> Any reason why &ellipsis; is not working for me in FireFox?
<davmor2> bigcalm: cause firefox hates you/
<davmor2> ? even
<bigcalm> Turns out that &hellip; works
<davmor2> bigcalm: if it helps I still have no idea what you are on about :)
<bigcalm> ...
<shauno> noting popey's new toys .. I use one of those with a laptop.  find it more comfortable to have it off to the side (like a mouse), rather than having to bend my thumb backwards to reach below the keyboard
 * AlanBell is in Microsoft
<czajkowski> AlanBell: see this is where 4square comes in handy
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: ew
<czajkowski> it freaks people out checking into MS oracle and redhat
<davmor2> AlanBell: insert some linux gpl code into their systems so we can sue them ;)
<AlanBell> they didn't confiscate my Maverick CDs
<AlanBell> Natty even
<davmor2> AlanBell: I wonder why :)  You still got your usb stick though right :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: he said "didn't" not "did"
<davmor2> oh are
<oimon> the usb stick might need disinfecting considering the  measures he took getting it through security
<dogmatic69> would anyone know why my ubuntu 10.10 running unit tests for php+mysql is 10x slower than mac osx
<dogmatic69> same versions of php/mysql and php code
<oimon> same RAM, hardware,disk?
<oimon> banshee just decided to play the funeral march by chopin oh-oh..
<davmor2> oimon: that's it banshee is going to die on you now :)
<oimon> it usually does
<oimon> :-o
<oimon> i recently installed a rhel6.1 desktop and was interested to see gnote, the mono-free tomboy replacement on there. after playing with it for 30 seconds i realised there is no note-sync feature (at least in the version shipped by redhat). chocolate teapot comes to mind
<popey> correct
<popey> i get a bit narked whenever people tell me I should use gnote
<popey> its missing fundamental functionality
<popey> "but it isnt mono"
<popey>                 _
<popey>  _ __ ___   ___| |__
<popey> | '_ ` _ \ / _ \ '_ \
<popey> | | | | | |  __/ | | |
<popey> |_| |_| |_|\___|_| |_|
<popey>                       
<azelphur_> Anyone care to do a traceroute to azelphur.com and tell me if your getting large amounts of packet loss inside he.net?
<azelphur_> hurricane electric has like 60% loss for me :(
<oimon> "Synchronization support is being worked on."
<GirlyGirl> hi
<oimon> azelphur i don't see he.net
<azelphur_> oimon, yea, I think some people take a different route and are fine, since there's a bunch of people with no issue
<popey> atlantic-metro.gigabitethernet3-20.core1.nyc4.he.net
<popey> lots of packet loss there
<azelphur_> popey, yep, that's where I'm loosing too
<oimon> http://pastebin.com/nGshSHYm
<azelphur_> yea, your going via a different route :)
<popey> 70-80%
<oimon> AKA the good route
<azelphur_> indeed
<azelphur_> wonder who I should grumble at about it
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/659325/
<oimon> although quite high ping times
<azelphur_> oimon, 78ms ain't bad to new york
<oimon> av ping for me is 150ms
<oimon> to az
<oimon> GirlyGirl: hello, sorry :)
<azelphur_> ah :)
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Don't be!
<oimon> hows the car?
<GirlyGirl> oimon: still same, but I changed the mat so I can avoid such a thing again
<shauno> I tend to go full hipsterific, and ping @henet on twitter.  They actually respond
<GirlyGirl> oimon: Funny thing though someone was having a discussion with me about females being bad drivers before I crashed, I told the person gender is irrelevant in such stuff. And then I came back with a mashed up car
<oimon> i guess most men don't wear stilettos?
<GirlyGirl> oimon: The accident was not technically my fault
<shauno> heh, that's just tempting murphy
<oimon> was it a white van?
<GirlyGirl> oimon: yes why?
<oimon> "white van man"..worst driver on the road
<GirlyGirl> I see
<s-fox> Hello.
<oimon> i drove one once and suddenly i felt like nobody one the road mattered
<oimon> felt like a computer game
<popey> haha
<popey> I borrowed my bosses car a while back
<czajkowski> one week to oggcamp :D
<popey> It was quite a missile compared to mine
<davmor2> oimon: you think van drivers don't care you should drive a lorry sometime :D
<GirlyGirl> My car is a Toyota Yaris
<azelphur_> think I should tweet to @henet about the packet loss? :P
<oimon> davmor2: i still shudder when i think of that footage of a lorry pushing a car along on the motorway, did you see it?
<popey> azelphur_: yes
<GirlyGirl> yes
<azelphur_> sounds fun :D
<daubers> czajkowski: Exciting isn't it!
<GirlyGirl> I would be scrared to be in the car!
<Daviey> I thought gnote was dead upstream?
<GirlyGirl> edit scared
<czajkowski> daubers: yeah really looking forward :D
<czajkowski> AlanBell: gotten any more dolly mixture cake from tesco lately :D
<oimon> Daviey: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnote/
<oimon> looks active
<Daviey> yeah, sure does - i was certain i read it was dropped by the chap behind it
<davmor2> oimon: been there done that,  In the builders merchant where I used to work, some prat parked his Range Rover directly behind my lorry couldn't see in the mirror and reversed backwards for about 40 feet before he jumped back in it and blasted on the horn
<oimon> this is terrifying http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/8574609.stm
<popey> Daviey: it was
<popey> it has changed developers
<davmor2> oimon: when you're in something that weights 38ton you don't notice and extra 2or3 of a car
<oimon> yeah, especially if you are texting or eating a pasty :)
<GirlyGirl> back in a moment
<Azelphur> yay, packet loss fixed \o/
<Azelphur> I guess twitter saves the day.
<oimon> rather worrying that
<hamitron> packet loss?
<Azelphur> hurricane electric was dropping 70% on the way to my server :(
<hamitron> :/
<davmor2> oimon: the worse thing I saw was a lady doing her makeup come off a slip lane between to lorries go to pull out of the gap into an overtaking lorry car got turn into a box woman dead
<oimon> :(
<popey> aaaaaanyway
<Azelphur> once on the road outside my house there was a lady who got killed after a bus pulled well onto her side of the road
<Azelphur> dunno what happened about that though, madness
<AlanBell> czajkowski: nope, but I might get one on the way home :)
<Daviey> Azelphur: what fixed it?
<Azelphur> Daviey: sending a tweet to hurricane electric :P
<oimon> the power of twitter
<AlanBell> silly Microsoft blocked port 22 outbound from their guest network
<Azelphur> \o/
<Azelphur> AlanBell: hahaha, anticompetitiveness at it's greatest
<oimon> should've set up a ssh server running on port 139 :)
<AlanBell> going via 443
<AlanBell> slowed me down for several seconds
<AlanBell> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1418765059.png good upload speed
<AlanBell> if only I had lots of videos to upload
<Daviey> AlanBell: torrent ubuntu iso? :)
<davmor2> haha
<AlanBell> I downloaded Oneiric Alpha 3 at home already
<Daviey> AlanBell: i was talking about seeding
 * AlanBell seeds
<oimon> ah, the ever present sound of police sirens. i must be in E london
<AlanBell> not enough people torrenting it
<AlanBell> ah, no torrent is blocked
<AlanBell> could run it through tsocks back to my server but that would be silly
 * hamitron is getting sick of this internet connection messing
<hamitron> going to get a cheaper ISP and use the spare cash for a VPN if things don't improve
 * AlanBell downloads alternate and server CDs
<GirlyGirl> hi
 * popey flounces away from mrevell 
<mrevell> popey, Heh, you're not London.
<AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109175303602657131317/posts/LCQbtAHeFsu issyl0 and assenseur
<popey> mrevell: :D
<popey> mrevell: I am glad you got the reference from that!
 * popey notes that AlanBell's link doesn't work for him
<oimon> WFM
<popey> the pitfalls of being logged in multiple times in a browser
<oimon> what would a blog planet be called in the non techy world? a syndicate?
<popey> my plus account is /u/2/ not /u/0/
<popey> blog aggregator
<popey> or news aggregator
<popey> or rss aggregator
<oimon> but if it's for a craft blog ? hmmm
<popey> for feed aggregator
<popey> the first one then
<popey> blog post aggregator
<oimon> not sure if a dedicated one exists for girly things like this
<davmor2> popey: WFM
<AlanBell> "website"
<popey> shush davmor2
<popey> i have explained why it doesnt work for _me_
<davmor2> popey: I don't care :P
<popey> of course
<davmor2> popey: how come you on a completely different g+ system then?
<oimon> special (needs)
<AlanBell> I don't know why that didn't work, should be public
<oimon> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-p1Zwl6030kU/Tjv8H3yQjUI/AAAAAAAAAtY/_4fqWtnfETg/h301/2011-08-05%2B15.05.04.jpg
<oimon> does that work?
<popey> 16:33:37 < popey> my plus account is /u/2/ not /u/0/
<popey> 16:33:22 < popey> the pitfalls of being logged in multiple times in a browser
<popey>  /u/0 is my popey account, /u/1 is my work account, /u/2 is my gmail account
<popey> AlanBell: its not that its public or not
<popey> is that two of my google accounts are Google Apps for Your Domain, and thus don't have Google+ on them
<AlanBell> doesn't the /u/0 in the url refer to *my* account not yours?
<popey> no
<popey>  /u/0 means the "first google account I am logged into in this browser"
<popey>  /u/1 is the second, /u/2 is the third etc
<AlanBell> ooh, that is broken then
<popey> I could logout of all my accounts and log back into the gmail one first
<davmor2> popey: use your phone I'm assuming there's an app for that
<popey> which would re-order them
<oimon> the link i posted works, right?
 * popey sighs
<popey> yeah
<oimon> workaround :)
<popey> but thats not a /u/0 link
<popey> no
<AlanBell> clicked on the "link to this post" thing
<popey> forget it
 * oimon understands.
 * oimon steps away from popey before he gets upset
<popey> meh
<popey> I have work to get me upset :D
<popey> not this
 * AlanBell tickles everyone
 * popey farts
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
 * daubers is confused.com
<czajkowski> Go compare
<czajkowski> Go compare
<czajkowski> Go compare
<czajkowski> stupid song is now in my head!!!!
<daubers> ldap is really weird :(
<bigcalm> Is there a simple introduction into setting up openvpn? I need to deploy to a state side server and never used vpn before
<davmor2> czajkowski: I can help you with that :D  Narwhals, Narwhals swimming in the ocean....
<czajkowski> NO!
<daubers> czajkowski: Here's a llama there's a llama and another little llama, half a llama, twice a llama, llama llama duck
 * czajkowski wonders what annoying P P name we're gonna get 
<czajkowski> QUACK!
<funkyHat> moo
<daubers> czajkowski: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama
<czajkowski> âââ âââ âââ
<czajkowski> âââ â â â â
<czajkowski> â â â â â â
<czajkowski> â â ââ  ââ
<suprengr> boo!
<daubers> The ubuntu server guide is a bit thin on the "why" of things
<czajkowski> daubers: that's easy, because we said so, or blame Daviey
 * daubers goes to acquire another notebook
<daubers> Hmmm, none in the stationary cupboard
<davmor2> czajkowski: this should help http://www.dafk.net/what/
<daubers> really must be a poets day
<davmor2> daubers: every friday is poets day
 * daubers gives up and goes home
<popey> \o/
<popey> AlanBell: join #oggcamp
<popey> gordonjcp needs you
 * Daviey reads scrollback
<Daviey> czajkowski: What am i being blamed for?
<GirlyGirl> Daviey: not giving me money lol
<popey> \o/ home time
<Daviey> popey: part timer!
<Daviey> GirlyGirl: sorry!
<s-fox> Time to go. Goodbye.
<davmor2> czajkowski: did that help at all?
<czajkowski> Daviey: ubuntu server guide
<Daviey> czajkowski: ah yes. known isue
<Daviey> issue
<czajkowski> tis a bit thin on information
<czajkowski> Daviey: pet weekend project for you
<czajkowski> no bother :)
<Daviey> czajkowski: Yeah, writing docs sounds like a wonderful weekend hobby
<bigcalm> Anybody care to recommend an online merchant of Ales?
<MartijnVdS> I would be interested as well :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it might be a problem to be an on-line ale merchant, because of age stuff
<MartijnVdS> age verification stuff, mostly
 * suprengr wonders what's the point of on-line ale.... virtual alcohol? 
<suprengr> [he says avec boutteil d'ale in hand ;D ]
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I use http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/ for spirits
<bigcalm> Getting ales won't be an issue
<bigcalm> I'm just looking for recommendations
<lin-luxe> hello
<GirlyGirl> hi lin-luxe
<lin-luxe> hey GirlyGirl, you the one who crashed your car?
<MartijnVdS> lin-luxe: great opening, that
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: its ok .. lin-luxe yes its me
<lin-luxe> So you still drive in stiletto heels after that?
<GirlyGirl> lin-luxe: hmm people keep telling me not to but I do as I can judge for myself if something is safe .. I did change the floor-matt so issue resolved
 * hamitron can't so much as walk in heels, nvm trying to drive
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: practice, practice, practice
<hamitron> I guess once a week isn't enough? ;/
<GirlyGirl> hamitron: I can't walk in sky high things either low ones are easy
<hamitron> I like driving in grandpa slippers
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> bbl, gotta get to pub for a quick one
<hamitron> o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp 11  one week to go! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/08/05/oggcamp-11-one-week-to-go/
<lin-luxe> GirlyGirl: Don't drive anyware near me though! (its a joke) no offense
<GirlyGirl> lin-luxe: like your sense of humour , truely I do.
<MartijnVdS> woo, http://vimeo.com/26028186 @ radio
<suprengr> oh dear... just did a whoopsey!  Used certificate patrol in firefox to delete all certificates... & bricked firefox entirely. I assume anyone who knows the answer also knows the consequences of what I just did & why help is required..
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: did you really delete them?
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: you can always create a new profile
<MartijnVdS> but then you'd have to find a way to migrate your bookmarks etc.
<suprengr> yeh :(   got sick of all the notifications given in google+ but it started me thinking... how many nasties were there *before* certificate patrol installed.  So like an idiot I thought - remove them all and start over...  whoopsie!
<MartijnVdS> notifications in g+?
<MartijnVdS> and whati's certificate patrol?
<suprengr> it's a firefox add-in giving notifications/warnings of new/updated/suspicious certificates.
<suprengr> ..& the profiles idea sounds better than restoring home directory from backup made this morning!
<MartijnVdS> you could try starting Chrome/Chromium
<MartijnVdS> then import all settings
<MartijnVdS> then ditching firefox :)
<suprengr> :D
<MartijnVdS> you could just restore ~/.mozilla from the backup
<MartijnVdS> (quit firefox first!)
<MartijnVdS> (and thunderbird!)
<GirlyGirl> lol someone sent me this by mail http://www.flickr.com/photos/server_pics/4298589322/
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: is that you?
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: no
<suprengr> Chromium installed awhile back... would the import resolve the certificates prob?
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: I don't think it imports certificate prefs
<suprengr> MartijnVdS, time to do as per suggestion - restore .mozilla!  doh!
<suprengr> back in a mo
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: remove that useless extension too :)
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: Why would that be me ... I have a purple yaris
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: just disable untrustworthy CAs :)
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: You said you'd had a car crash and high heels
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: this picture has both as well :)
<suprengr> MartijnVdS, decision already made... pre your suggestion re removing it :D
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: My car looks worse actually but it has both its lamps working (no lamp cover though)
<suprengr> MartijnVdS,  - good idea - thanks prob solved.  now to add-ons, *remove* ;)   Thanks a million
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: np :)
 * GirlyGirl thinks people find her car accident amusing
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: People in here tend to always look on the bright side of life
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: (you survived! etc.)
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: I guess I can laugh at myself too
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> gord: what should happen when hyou remove a lens
<czajkowski> gord: does it need to restart for full effect
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: I've a perfect reponse for that e-mail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjhpltb3kck&feature=related
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
<davmor2> czajkowski: depends on the lens so are permanent as I understand it
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: I'm waiting for a "park yourself now" button on a car
<czajkowski> davmor2: removed reddit and askubunt
<czajkowski> so now have a lens there with a ? mark over it
<czajkowski> put mouse over it and it says reddit and askubuntu and still works
<GirlyGirl> MartijnVdS: I'm waiting for a "auto-repair" button lol
<MartijnVdS> GirlyGirl: That'll be harder
<GirlyGirl> I only need it once ... well I hope
<davmor2> czajkowski: a quick google gave me this http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/06/how-to-remove-lenses-from-ubuntu-1104.html
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/61elll
<davmor2> czajkowski: did the link help?
 * jacobw is listening to Queen
<jacobw> i'll be sad when the previous tenant finally gets round to moving his hifi :p
<MartijnVdS> ...
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Kick Out The Jam - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/08/05/kick-out-the-jam/
<AlanBell> hmm, hello unthemed desktop, haven't seen you in a while
<AlanBell> aquarius: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/add/ it has been unbroken
<dogmatic69> evening all
<dogmatic69> nobody about tonight?
<AlanBell> o/
<directhex> okay. how do i create an armhf chroot?
<directhex> wait, that was meant to be for #debian-uk
<HazRPG> !oggcamp
<lubotu3> oggcamp is a two day unconference on August 13th/14th 2011 - See http://oggcamp.org/
<HazRPG> ah, foo
<HazRPG> just realised that CLUG meet and oggcamp are on the same date
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-06
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> purchasing a external cd drive today...hope they are cheapish :D
<StevenR> MooDoo: I have a liteon one that was about 20 quid.
<MooDoo> StevenR: where did you get that one from?
<StevenR> (usb, dvd re-writer actually)
<StevenR> ebuyer iirc
<StevenR> http://www.ebuyer.com/172850-liteon-etdu108-8x-dvd-rom-usb-external-slim-optical-drive-retail-box-etdu108-01
<StevenR> it's usb powered with a standard A -> mini-B cable
<MooDoo> ok thanks :D
<StevenR> :)
<mfraz74> not very happy with ebuyer/city-link at the moment
<GirlyGirl> hi
<MooDoo> GirlyGirl: hi
<MooDoo> mfraz74: how come?
<mfraz74> hi GirlyGirl
<mfraz74> MooDoo: ordered a hard drive yesterday for delivery today, checked earlier and something has rescheduled it for monday instead
<MooDoo> mfraz74: have you contacted them?
<mfraz74> tried to contact city-link, but was on hold for ages. ebuyer aren't open today
<MooDoo> mfraz74: how far is the city-link depot from you, couldn't you go pick it up?
<mfraz74> about an hour away and no car today
<MooDoo> booooo
<MartijnVdS> Taxi! :)
<directhex> it may not be at the depot
<mfraz74> it is at the depot
<directhex> what time did it arrive at the depot?
<mfraz74> arrived thereat 6.20 got rescheduled 2 hours later
<mfraz74> it says "Thank you for your rescheduling request."
<directhex> yeah, goods are loaded onto delivery vans at around 5:30-6:00
<directhex> so the lorry didn't arrive until it was too late
<directhex> yes, you've paid for saturday delivery and not got it. i've had this kind of thing from citylink
<mfraz74> the website makes look like i've rescheduled the delivery
<directhex> mfraz74, the depot staff helpfully rescheduled delivery on your behalf.
 * GirlyGirl is deciding whether to spend money repairing her car bodywork or buying herself a nice new laptop 
<mfraz74> new laptop of course!
<MartijnVdS> I'd go for the car
<GirlyGirl> I think I'll take the laptop, since the car moves like it should (except for a bit of constant steering)
<MooDoo> GirlyGirl: what's going to be the cheaper option?  and is your life at stake in the car ;)
<GirlyGirl> or maybe balancing for the car and a laptop
<directhex> laptops are SOO last millennium. tablets are where it's at!
<GirlyGirl> MooDoo: both cost around the same.. no the car is safe, just dented, I smashed it pretty bad
<GirlyGirl> directhex: nah not so interested in a tablet
<mfraz74> GirlyGirl: you're not also known as Rowan Atkinson are you?
<GirlyGirl> mfraz74: Why would that be lol
<mfraz74> GirlyGirl: have you seen what he's done to his car?
<brobostigon> mfraz74: yes, he rightedoff his mclaren f1.
<GirlyGirl> nah mine's not so bad! and no f1 for me
 * penguin42 yawns
 * GirlyGirl thinks penguins are lazy
<directhex> and stuffed with herring.
<penguin42> GirlyGirl: I'm not going to argue with that
<penguin42> given it's nearly 1pm, I've been up less than an hour and am still in dressing gown :-)
<GirlyGirl> penguin42: You must be used to it, the south pole is always dark at this time of the year
<penguin42> GirlyGirl: Nod
<penguin42> GirlyGirl: Although Manchester isn't quite that bad
 * popey is also still in dressing gown :D
<directhex> i'm going to have a shower, i think
<Azelphur> for all the electronicy type people out there, would it be possible to make a magnetic USB charging cable?
<Azelphur> you know like the cables you get on laptops which are held in magnetically so if someone trips over the cable it just falls out
<aquarius> not really. usb requires more of a contact than that
<Azelphur> thought it might do, but I wondered if the requirements would be lower for just power with no data
<directhex> usb doesn't work that way.
<aquarius> then it's not usb :)
<aquarius> the whole point is that usb is universal; you can plug any usb device into it. If this magic socket requires shorter plugs or something then it ain't usb ;)
<Azelphur> spose :p
<aquarius> what you could do is make a very short usb-to-azelphursb connector, and then put an azelphursb socket on your laptop
<directhex> look inside a usb plug. power happens on the 2 long lines - ground on the left, +5v on the right
<aquarius> also, liisten to directhex, since he has the skillz
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> sounds like it would be easier to bypass the usb charging and just go straight to the battery
<jacobw> http://ask.slashdot.org/story/11/08/06/0127201/The-Mathematics-of-Lawn-Mowing
 * penguin42 hands jacobw a goat
 * jacobw nutures the goat
<jacobw> i'll definately be following the research next time i mow a lawn
<MartijnVdS> yes.. move in a circle from the inside out..
<MartijnVdS> except adjusted to non-circular laws :)
<MartijnVdS> lawns*
<head_victim> Any enGB translation admins around?
<GirlyGirl> hi
<brobostigon> hi GirlyGirl
<MooDoo> hi GirlyGirl
<czajkowski> Aloha
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu Ireland August Geeknic - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/08/06/ubuntu-ireland-august-geeknic/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] One Week to OggCamp See you there - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/08/06/one-week-to-oggcamp-see-you-there/
<GirlyGirl> hi
<popey> hello
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
<GirlyGirl> How much is a london olympic ticket going to be
<AlanBell> all gone
<GirlyGirl> AlanBell: Really, what was the pricing
<GirlyGirl> aproximate
<AlanBell> huge range, from Â£20 to Â£x000
<AlanBell> where are you coming from?
<GirlyGirl> I'm not interested in the Olympic ticket, was just curious
<AlanBell> because the UK allocation was done in a lottery, other country allocations might have some left
<popey> iirc GirlyGirl is in Scotland
<popey> So probably more expensive to get to (that) London from there than from say Paris
<czajkowski> look at the logo here   http://www.aftemplates.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Free-Expense-Report-Template.png
<popey> haha
<popey> excellent
<czajkowski> http://www.aftemplates.com/free-expense-report-template.html
<czajkowski> cmes from there
<czajkowski> not sure who to report it to
<popey> why report it?
<czajkowski> ubuntu logo
<popey> yes
<popey> why report it?
<AlanBell> looks like a perfectly good use of it
<czajkowski> fair enough
<popey> I'd rather they used the up to date one :D
<popey> maybe we should ask them to do that
<czajkowski> :)
 * czajkowski is tryng to find a template for expenses online 
<popey> I just use a spreadsheet
<AlanBell> with your nice new spreadsheet application
<MartijnVdS> Microsoft Excel? :)
<popey> heh
<popey> I nearly typed "I just use an excel spreadsheet" :D
<MartijnVdS> popey: Office for Windows or for Mac?
<popey> windows
<MartijnVdS> so you need another copy for each of your macs ;)
<popey> ooo pizza here
<popey> good timing dominos man!
 * mgdm shakes his fist at popey 
<mgdm> Now I want Dominos
 * GirlyGirl asks opey for her share
 * StevenR has chicken, peppers and pasta :D
<daubers> Evening
<GirlyGirl> hi
<iceflatline> hullo
<StevenR> lo
 * daubers has mended the clothes drawers, thus completing his manly duties for the day
<daubers> *sigh* Why do people assume _everyone_ uses MS Outlook
<daubers> "Please use the âvoteâ facility above to let us know by answering yes or no." arrived in my gmail
<mgdm> The real comedy ones are when they attempt to recall messages they shouldn't have sent
<daubers> Also, Apple inverting the scroll motion in Lion is blasted annoying
<mgdm> Heh
<daubers> Also! Might finally get to meet the people at Reading Hackspace tomorrow \o/
<mgdm> Cool
 * StevenR has painted part of a ceiling
<daubers> StevenR: \o/
<StevenR> daubers: without a) getting paint in my hair b) destroying the ceiling c) falling off the ladder and d) smashing anything
<daubers> StevenR: \o/ \o/
<StevenR> a few more coats and it should blend in nicely
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: but now the furniture is all covered in paint?
<daubers> StevenR: I watched my dd and his friend plaster a roof once by using stilts, that was immensely impressive unti they tripped up :)
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: nope (bathroom, so easy to wipe down the few splatters)
<StevenR> daubers: eep.
<daubers> stupid osx
<Bomster> lol
<HazRPG> hey guys, having a weird trouble installing 11.04 on a core 2 duo... "boot error" from the BIOS
<HazRPG> using a USB flash drive
<HazRPG> (no CD drive)
<HazRPG> I know the USB flash drive works, because my laptop boots into it... I'm just baffled as to what's up
<HazRPG> is there a BIOS thing I should be changing that could be locking it out?
<HazRPG> according to this, it should be okay (however that does mention 8.04 though, not 11.04): http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/dg35ec/sb/CS-029515.htm
<AlanBell> HazRPG: are you camping for oggcamp?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Hopefully yeah :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: If its still okay with you?
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> can you send a mail to alanbell@ubuntu.com
<HazRPG> what shall I put in said mail?
<AlanBell> actually, never mind, you are on the list already
<HazRPG> oh the oggcamp list?
<HazRPG> yeah I have a ticket already :)
<HazRPG> hmm?
<AlanBell> the "people in my garden" list
<HazRPG> oh ^_^
<HazRPG> AlanBell: you got many staying at yours?
<HazRPG> I know me and brobostigon are :)
<HazRPG> (if I haven't already, again much thanks for offering to put me up in your garden :))
<AlanBell> gosh, looks like 7 :-/
<AlanBell> think I am full
<dutchie> AlanBell: you did take me off the list?
<HazRPG> Wow! Got enough space for all that?
<AlanBell> dutchie: yes
<dutchie> cool :)
<dutchie> well :( really
<AlanBell> HazRPG: maybe
<AlanBell> 6 for saturday/sunday
<StevenR> AlanBell: all sorted on the networking front? (I heard mention about worries about wireless for the conf?)
<AlanBell> StevenR: that is popey's thing really
<AlanBell> apart from the AV Lan
<StevenR> I see
<HazRPG> Ooo, there's LAN?
<AlanBell> one way or another there will be some wireless
<HazRPG> Should I be bring my laptop with me?
<AlanBell> HazRPG: just a gigabit switch possibly not connected to anything
<StevenR> AlanBell: hehe. Wireless design is fun :)
<HazRPG> heh, even if we just bridge a few android phones together, and use them as AP's ... there will be wireless!
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> reasonable mobile broadband there, we tested in the rooms
<HazRPG> \o/
<AlanBell> and kick ass wireless N broadband in my garden
<HazRPG> my laptop is so going to be made fun of so much this weekend :(
<AlanBell> 34MB down \o/
<StevenR> AlanBell: FTTC or VM ?
<AlanBell> FTTC
<HazRPG> wow score! \o/
 * StevenR has that too
<AlanBell> and if it is totally dry, power to the tents :)
<HazRPG> better down then me!
<HazRPG> (I has 8Mb down)
<AlanBell> otherwise charging stuff indoors
<HazRPG> cool :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: How many people are you getting in your garden?
<AlanBell> going to need to dismantle a 14foot diameter trampoline on the friday and reassemble Sunday morning
<AlanBell> penguin42: 7!
 * penguin42 imagines something like out of a refugee camp
<AlanBell> little bit concerned about space
<HazRPG> Don't worry, I'm only little... so I won't be taking up much space :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: If you give them strong enough coffee they won't need to sleep
<HazRPG> if needs be, I'll be outside with an umbrella tied around my sleeping bag :P
<HazRPG> could bring my 4 man tent, which can easily house about 6 skinny people
#ubuntu-uk 2011-08-07
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> HazRPG: when you are next around, i need a quick word, please.
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS pets his SSD again
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> also, I need a SATA-3 (6 Gbit) interface in my machine.. I'm not using its full potential now :)
<MartijnVdS> It takes longer to get through the BIOS from powerup than to get to the login screen after the BIOS finishes :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS:  OCZ one?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: "Intel 510" 120GB
<daubers> ah, ok\
<daubers> 
<MartijnVdS> Model Number:       INTEL SSDSC2MH120A2
<brobostigon> me eczema is really playing up, i am hating this, and timing aswell.
<MartijnVdS> heh:
<MartijnVdS> SSD - 2min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 2min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT.
<MartijnVdS> "normal" disk - 46min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 46min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT.
<popey> :D
<MartijnVdS> now if only Intel would hurry up releasing Ivy Bridge
<MartijnVdS> but I read that's been pushed back to March :(
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> howdy czajkowski
 * StevenR waits for more paint to dry
 * StevenR wonders if it's possible to "remote control" his camera
<daubers> StevenR: Which camera?
<StevenR> canon powershot a1100 is
<StevenR> there's a psremote application
<StevenR> but it's windows only... still, shows it's possible
<StevenR> (I'd like to do timelapse with it :))
<daubers> StevenR: http://www.circuitsathome.com/tag/canon-powershot
<StevenR> daubers: thanks :)  (I was hoping to do it with arduino, but my google fu is weak this morning)
<StevenR> like when we do a show, get into the the theatre before the set goes in, and do a 1/min shot or something
<StevenR> so the set builds like magic :)
<StevenR> also, it'd be handy for rehearsals to catch whole set shots
<StevenR> cos nobody ever takes the photos that I want :)
<daubers> heh
<MartijnVdS> You can do timed shots on Canon cameras with gphoto
<MartijnVdS> at least, I can with my EOS and Ixus
<MartijnVdS> and my Ixus also has the "CHDK" option
<MartijnVdS> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
<StevenR> the photographers are taking shots of the actors for press/archive ... which is great, but I like shots of my lighting too :D
<MartijnVdS> heh, I used to take pictures of the empty podium (with instruments) before a band started to play
<MartijnVdS> For the light guys
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: what do you use as a frontend for control?
<StevenR> (for the timed shots)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: I just did a few shots before the show started, nothing special
<MartijnVdS> (and then a lot of shots once the band started to play)
 * daubers is quite excited about next weekend now
<daubers> A lot to do this week to be ready
<MooDoo> daubers: oggcamp?
<daubers> MooDoo:  Indeedy :)
<MooDoo> pah! :p
<daubers> MooDoo:  Heh, I need to make sure the storage system I've put aside is ready, build a local mirror on another (and drop a better nic in it), take one of the cameras I'm borrowing somewhere with a lot of ambient noise and test it, and try OpenShot with AVCHD files
<MartijnVdS> hmmm avchd
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Most video cameras at the moment will record into AVCHD, so it's here to stay unfortunatley
<MartijnVdS> daubers: at least it's a standard, and HD
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Rubbish to edit in though :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: hah, but EDITING hd video is for pirates and movie studios
<MartijnVdS> not mortals
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Pah, I do it at least once or twice a week while testing stuff
<MartijnVdS> daubers: well yes, but you supply to movie studios, don't you?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Was editing in dpx the other day. _That_ is insane
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Not many movie studios. Mostly TV types
<MartijnVdS> Too bad that "TV types" don't seem to understand HD here :(
<daubers> MartijnVdS: HD is expensive. It'll take time for a lot of people to move their workflows over
<MartijnVdS> daubers: All major TV channels in .nl are available in HD.. but there's only upscaled content on them
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Two live events in HD at the same time? Unpossible!
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Yeah, that's cheap and easy :)
<daubers> (upscaling)
<MartijnVdS> When there are two sporting events, one gets HD, the other what they call "SD+" (aka 576p)
<StevenR> hrrmph. gphoto won't make my camera take a photo. it's unsupported by the camera (connect a usb cable and it goes into "pc connect mode"
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: can you set the camera to a different mode?
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: in the menus?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: To do HD in FCP or Avid you need very expensive storage, as you can't edit in a compressed format like h264 due to key framing. Most of the HD codecs work at about 20-50MB/s/stream so if you use 2 streams of HD you need to get 100MB/s to each edit station
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Also, editing in HD really really hurts processors, so you need excessively powerful machines to edit in it
<MartijnVdS> daubers: What's no in my phone was once excessively powerful though
<MartijnVdS> now*
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Avid recommends Xeons rather than i7's these days
<daubers> MartijnVdS: FCP recommends 8 core xeons for editing HD
<daubers> Was it 8 or 6â¦ I forget
<MartijnVdS> 10-core xeons exist
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: the menus stop orking when it becomes a pc device
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Still, the public broadcaster (tax money etc.) should upgrade ALL its channels at once, not one every 3 years :)
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: sure, but in mine there's an option to set "PC Mode" before I connect it
<daubers> MartijnVdS: You're talking about Â£50k+ for each post house! Thats before you take in account camera's, training, channel bandwidth and so on
<MartijnVdS> daubers: They have 3 HD outputs, and they can do 3 HD broadcasts at once. It's just that they can't do >1 HD live feed at once
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it feels like they didn't upgrade _something_ yet :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I suspect it'll be a mix of cameras and what not still in process
<MartijnVdS> daubers: probably
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I just want everything in hd... I'm impatient like that :)
<MartijnVdS> Ah, found the 2011-2015 plan on their web site
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> cool, they have a comparison
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: yeah, I don't get that option, the menus are rather slimmed down
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: maybe CHDK is available then?
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: nope. looks like I need to use a servo or something
<StevenR> but there's code out there to do that :)
<CortexTrip> what about that Unity eh?
<CortexTrip> what a pile of manure.
<TonyP> Thats your opinion - some of us like Unity
<directhex> i don't like unity. but i'm too lazy to use real gnome
<StevenR> directhex: what do you use?
<directhex> StevenR, unity. i just don't enjoy it :)
<directhex> i've turned off some of the most obnoious changes in recent ubuntu - e.g. i have a real system tray, and i un-mapped the Super key so i can use gnome do
<StevenR> ahh, I see
 * StevenR blacklists an IP from South Korea
<MartijnVdS> Only one?
<StevenR> yeah
<StevenR> it was trying to bruteforce my ssh not-quite-vpn
<StevenR> but it only accepts two large ssh keys
<StevenR> so a bruteforce password attach isn't gonna fly
<StevenR> *attack
<MartijnVdS> StevenR: install fail2ban
<MartijnVdS> it'll auto-block IPs after <n> auth failures in <m> seconds
<StevenR> interesting to watch it try though :)
<mgdm> fail2ban++
<StevenR> well. that is irritating. Neither denyhosts or fail2ban are available for the repos on that box
<StevenR> (it's centos5, rather than ubuntu)
<mgdm> Oh :/
<mgdm> tried EPEL?
<StevenR> not yet. I kindof wanted to keep it nice and slim :)
<mgdm> I know what you mean
<MartijnVdS> and you use centos? :P
<StevenR> MartijnVdS: it's slim enough :P
<StevenR> (that and I have to support it at work, so I like to keep my hand in)
<mgdm> Hmmm. PHP segfaulted, and not because I was doing something silly in C again.
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: cool, reproducible?
<mgdm> Not yet :-)
<mgdm> I happens every now and again, but often it's because of something I've written and compiled in, so I tend not to take too much notice
<GirlyGirl> hi
<brobostigon> hi GirlyGirl
<GirlyGirl> bye lol
<hamitron> oh dear brobostigon
<hamitron> ;)
<brobostigon> hamitron: huh ?
<hamitron> you scared her off
<brobostigon> i did no such thing.i couldnt have.
<hamitron> hehe
<popey> brobostigon: humour
<brobostigon> hmm, ok.
<brobostigon> sorry
<gord> lambda's in c++0x sure are great
<daubers> Evening
<scoundrel50a> sorry to ask, but I need to find a simple way of creating a mysql database using the linux  terminal, can somebody point me in the direction of a easy to understand tutorial please?
<AlanBell> !mysql
<lubotu3> LAMP is an acronym for Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP. However, the term is often used for setups using alternative but different software, such as Perl or Python instead of PHP, and Postgres instead of MySQL. For help with setting up LAMP on Ubuntu, see  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP - See also the Server CD installation process (different in Edgy+)
<AlanBell> hmm, not that helpful
<AlanBell> http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-create-a-mysql-database-and-set-privileges-to-a-user
<AlanBell> something like that maybe scoundrel50a
<scoundrel50a> ah, thank you, that looks like it might help. If I can understand it....thank you.
<scoundrel50a> yippee, that worked, I just created a db using the terminal, amazing.....
<daubers> \o/ circuit board modified and rerouted
<bigcalm> While we are on the subject of databases. Is there a good db designer in the Software Centre?
<bigcalm> It doesn't need db access, just a visual interpretation of tables
<Myrtti> I used something for my postgresql at one point
<Myrtti> I'm tempted to say pgadmin but I'm sure I'm wrong
<gord> there is a sqllite one
<gord> i'v used it before, it was okay
<bigcalm> I don't need actual db interaction as I will be creating things by hand later. I just want a visual way of setting up tables
<bigcalm> Have just tried dbdesigner, but it's failing to run
<gord> right, but things that are designed to visually set up tables, often also do db interaction as well
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<popey> there is a kde one
<popey> oml thing
<popey> akonadi?
<Azelphur> mum bought me a mini fridge for my room :D http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/August%202011/IMG_20110807_190706.jpg
<Azelphur> only 10 quid from boot sale too, fun fun \o/
<hamitron> Azelphur: maybe a hint "here is your first piece of kit to move out"
<daubers> bigcalm: I quite like the mysqlworkbench
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: haha nah I've been after getting one, it's a long way to the fridge from up here so most houses have a little fridge on the top floor if people are living up there
<Azelphur> kinda sucks walking 3 down and 3 up  just to get a drink or something.
<hamitron> yeh :/
<hamitron> certainly adds time
<hamitron> I know a lot wonder what take me so long making a coffee
<hamitron> takes*
<Azelphur> with mailing lists, using google apps and thunderbird, is there something sensible I can do to make the mailing lists a bit more separated?
<Azelphur> like have it separate from my unread count and move it to another folder or something
<bigcalm> Thanks for the suggestions peeps. I shall be looking into them more later
<StevenR> Azelphur: create filters in gmail so they don't go in the inbox?
<Azelphur> ah, I see :)
<Cassull> greetings
<Cassull> there really was a uk channel for buntu... :)
<Cassull> s/was/is
<Azelphur> yea, we might be English too
<Azelphur> although word on the street is we're all from mumbai india secretly :P
<penguin42> we outsourced the channel?
<Azelphur> yea :(
<Cassull> :)
<Azelphur> now I must depart, somewhere...somehow there is a Ubuntu machine needing saving (somewhere being over the road, somehow being turned off during a dist upgrade)
<Azelphur> \o/
<Cassull> how is the wether other there?
<Cassull> Azelphur: yea, save the world, save your buntu! ;)
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> so I've returned with a rather unhappy looking netbook
<Azelphur> I ran dpkg-reconfigure -a to finish the stuff
<daubers> dum da dum dum
<Azelphur> doesn't seem to want to let me login though :(
<Azelphur> login screen comes up looks like no gnome-settings-daemon and then when I login it puts up a notification "Install problem! the configuration defaults for GNOME power manager have not been installed correctly. Please contact your system administrator." and then throws me back to the login screen
<Azelphur> guess I'll backup /home and reload :p
<StevenR> Azelphur: what about running apt-get upgrade again?
<StevenR> are there any packages that haven't yet been updated?
<Laney> happy days
<Azelphur> StevenR: nope
<Azelphur> StevenR: think I might just be crazy and try and do the 10.10 to 11.04 upgrade and hope it fixes all the busted config files that happened during the last one
<StevenR> Azelphur: can't make it any more broken
<Azelphur> indeed
<daubers> Hmmmâ¦. my meagre electronics knowledge is failing me
<__steve__> Any python guru's online? Not for troubleshooting, was hoping on advice on how to go about a particular cgi project...
<mgdm> __steve__: probably easiest just to ask, if anyone knows they might answer
<__steve__> thanks, got an existing script I use for backing up. I have recently started playing with cgi scripts, but as the backup takes a long time it is not suitable for use within the cgi script. Should I look at using a client-server setup? Any advice would be appreciated.
<mgdm> Does it need to be run as a CGI? Might it be easier to trigger it as a cron job?
<__steve__> mgdm, Again thanks for the feedback. Its a headless box that I use as a media server. (Specifically I am dumping a DVD to an image file) So yes, I could run a cron job at regular intervals that checks for the presence of a disc but I am interested by the challenge of getting it to work from a cgi. Any pointers?
<mgdm> You'll be wanting to hand off to another process that can live a bit longer, in PHP land there are things like Gearman and ZMQ that can do that sort of thing, but itthat might be gigantic overkill
<mgdm> (they're not PHP-specific, they just get used there)
<__steve__> Those do look like they would be very useful! Overkill as you say - but it does make things interesting. Am I barking up the wrong tree thinking about a client-server architecture within python do you think? I was thinking it may be a good excuse to get better at threading.
<mgdm> __steve__: if you fancy a challenge, I don't see why not
<mgdm> having a main process kicking about that does work when pinged by the CGI?
<__steve__> mgdm, That what what I was thinking - Sound like it would work?
<mgdm> Yeah
<__steve__> Looking at ZMQ - it seems great. It is  defiantly one to bookmark - I have a couple of ideas in mind which would be excellent. In this case though I think working from the ground up would give me more chance to learn more python.
<mgdm> sure
<mgdm> you basically need a 'go' button
<__steve__> Nice, do you use python much? Or are you more into php?
<mgdm> PHP is my day job, and I've got involved in the project itself, but I play with Python every now and again
<__steve__> Fair enough, I do like python - suits my needs well. Thanks for the feedback.
<mgdm> No problem :-) I'd be interested to hear how you end up doing it
<__steve__> Sure thing, I dont get the chance to play with any programming in work time so it doesnt take much for me to start coding when Im home.
<mgdm> I do development all day at work, which doesn't stop me doing it outside of work too :-)
<__steve__> You mentioned you are involved in the php project, do you do dev work?
<mgdm> __steve__: yeah, I have done the odd bit on the core and work on some extensions
<__steve__> mgdm, Well the best of luck to you. Must shoot for now though - otherwise I will get it in the ear. ;-p
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-30
<ali1234> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/madsci9001
<Azelphur> gah, I need a new text editor
<Azelphur> gedit is just too buggy to use, it's really frustrating me
<soreau> Azelphur: geany is pretty damn good
<Azelphur> soreau: haha I just bumped into it, and I'm liking it
<soreau> Azelphur: It's really more of an IDE but works fine as a common text editor
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> gedit is winnnn
<soreau> nnnndoze
<Azelphur> ali1234: would be if it wasn't bugged out
<ali1234> also the hamsternauts are doing something
<Azelphur> my text cursor keeps disappearing so I can't see what I'm doing
<soreau> sorry, couldn't help it;)
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234>  20   0 3300m 2.3g  62m S  100 14.8 172:57.15 firefox
<ali1234> i have a single tab open on "about:blank"
<ali1234> this is ridiculous
<MartijnVdS> "We've fixed the memory leak bugs" - Firefox team
<ali1234> note that it's also using 100% cpu for some reason
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I read somewhere that js which takes a reference to the DOM can't be killed off because the memory is still referenced
<MartijnVdS> so it could still be running (and if it's buggy, getting nothing from the now-stale DOM)
<ali1234> sounds about right, i've been developing some javascript code
<christel> good morning pretties
<popey> Morning all!
<christel> morning popey :)
<popey> christel, those disks are wiped now
<christel> \o/
<christel> well done!
<popey> wheee
<popey> mcd wifi works outside mcd :)
<christel> are you just sat in your car outside mcdonalds Going On The Internet and looking shifty? :P
<christel> oh you're off to IoM today aren't you?
<popey> ya
<popey> well, i was inside mcd but they got busy and people started hovering around the table i was on
<popey> tutting
<christel> hehe
<popey> now there is a queue out the door
<christel> see, you should have asked them to join you in a discussion about Jesus
<christel> it usually works.. apart from the few times it backfires and people are really keen on talking about jesus
<popey> hahah
<popey> s/jesus/satan/
<christel> :D
<popey> s/satan/ubuntu/ :)
<christel> \o/
<christel> cultbuntu! \o/
<popey> \o/
 * popey wanders off to look for a plane shaped thing
<christel> it is in alan's fridge..
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> hi christel.
<christel> how are you this fineeee morning lovely one? :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> crap frankly
<christel> oh no! howcome?
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno really. Woke up at 2:15am, finally got some sleep around 5:30 - 7:30 but only little bits. Just feel rubbish.
<christel> auch -- yes, that would probably not make me feel Too Great either! i like my sleep
<j0nr> Good morning.
<j0nr> I have a mail server question.
<j0nr> I havemine set up so that various different <names>@mydomain.com all come into the one <server user> account, via aliases in /etc/aliases (iirc)
<j0nr> I also have virtual domains set up so that I can also receive <names>@myseconddomain.com into the same account
<j0nr> I then just redirect different things into different mailboxes (Maildir) using procmail
<j0nr> But, if I then add this account to say my phone (an IMAP) I get all accounts in thr one account obviously
<j0nr> I was wondering if I could set up the seconddomain so I could some how set up a second accout on my phone just for that
<j0nr> I guess the easiest way would be to create a second user on my server for that domain...but is it possible without having to do that (plus associated hassle of backing up a second account)
<kvarley> This is an unrelated question to Ubuntu but I know somebody will know. When somebody spoofs their user agent, does their browser still complete conditional html statements for their browser? E.g. if IE6 was pretending to be Firefox would it still render the IF IE 6 conditional statement or would it not?
<directhex> kvarley, yes.
<directhex> kvarley, the change only relates to the User-Agent HTTP header. nothing more.
<kvarley> So why would detecting browsers features via Javascript take precedence over this method?
<kvarley> I have seen people suggesting to feature detect rather than using conditional statements which is weird if they work fine
<kvarley> Thanks directhex
<directhex> feature detection means you can better handle unknown cases
<directhex> if a chinese visitor comes on using MaoistWeb 4.7, do you use your IE6, IE7, Opera, or Netscape 4.7 code?
<kvarley> I'd use my modern browser code unless they have JS turned off in which case they'd use my mobile friendly site
<kvarley> directhex: I see you point though, that's why it would be better =]
<directhex> i'd just sniff. "if IE6 then redirect to 'you are blocked' page, otherwise work normally"
<czajkowski> Aloha
<kvarley> directhex: It'll be more, detect IE6 and load in all the CSS hacks heh but that's the plan =]
<kvarley> Thanks directhex
<directhex> i wonder how much global warming could be blamed on all the extra fossil fuels burned to power enough computers to allow sites to be developed & tested in IE6
<DJones> Just looking at this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/29/tweets_texts_blamed_for_olympic_bike_race_bungles/ Is it this likely, or just a made up excuse to cover equipment failure?
<AlanBell> made up excuse
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<christel> morning bigcalm \o/
<DJones> My thought as well, its not as if GPS systems and text messages to local mobile masts will be on the same frequency
 * bigcalm tickles christel hello
<christel> rawr
<christel> i am trying to work out what to do today -- the boy wonder is On Holiday, which means he has to be entertained!
<christel> ignoring the fact that he is still fast asleep
<czajkowski> christel: by chicken and let him watch it all day
<czajkowski> seems to work well
<czajkowski> or a tramploine
<DJones> Take him shopping, after a day wandering round shops, he'll never take a day off ever again
<christel> no more chickens. i dreamt of chickens.
<christel> (i didn't really)
<christel> DJones: haha he LOVES shopping!
<DJones> ....... WHAT.... A bloke that loves shopping
<christel> he is 2
<christel> :s
<christel> i am sure it will pass
<DJones> At that age, he's obviously not been dragged into enough shoe/handbag shops
<christel> i am pondering bird world...
<christel> since well, he loves chickens.. he should love other birds too right?
<DJones> KFC?
<christel> a day out at kfc! sounds like a PLN
<AlanBell> birdworld is good and they have chickens
<christel> AlanBell: damn :(
<MartijnVdS> christel: "chasing birds"?
<christel> chickens EVERYWHERE
<christel> MartijnVdS: mmm they start early in the uk!
<christel> i must admit i've never ventured to birdworld, i do have an annual pass
<christel> (because i am backwards)
<directhex> small birds are Bad(tm) for small children
<directhex> like super bad
<christel> oooh?
<directhex> Psittacosis. it's enough of an issue that health visitors check you don't have any small birds when visiting, due to the risk to the child's health
<christel> i avoided health visitors when david was littler, they scared me!
<christel> (alternatively, we just heavily disagreed so i decided they were the scum of the earth)
<czajkowski> lol
<directhex> well ours declared our baby was fat. which was unhelpful.
<czajkowski> :o
<oimon> NHS are well funny with regards formula milk
<oimon> almost a direct quote: "formula feeding will kill your baby, and give it breast cancer diabetes and heart attack"
<directhex> they live in fear of the breast feeding mafioso, e.g. "Baby Milk Action"
<directhex> basically there's some old WHO directive from the 80s banning non-negative portrayal of formula, and the NHS will get sued by busybodies if they don't comply
<directhex> and mothers who physically can't breastfeed? they're clearly terrible people and should not be pandered to.
<oimon> even if the mother is at risk, they still don't recommend formula
<directhex> funnily enough the pediatricians ordered us to give ours formula. i suspect being premature made a difference to attitude
<christel> oimon: they cant really because of WHO guidelines
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<directhex> it also means they can't answer the question "which brand of baby milk is nutritionally best for my child?"
<christel> on the flipside our HV recommended formula (which was the time i threw her out of the house, being a bit of a breastfeeding nazi and all)
<christel> directhex: yeah, that is a bit of an arse -- when medically indicated they should be able to provide some sort of advice as not everyone has access to donor milk (in our area, surrey/hants the only milk bank is in southampton)
<christel> to which i must have donated litres during my time of being well, a cow :)
<directhex> i think we managed 3 weeks of mixed feeding
<oimon> my mum fed around half the ward when she had kids
<christel> oimon: hehe
<oimon> they did that in those days
<directhex> but there wasn't enough supply to even supply half what the midget required. so pretty much a losing battle
<christel> being foreign i come from such a different culture so during one of the antenatal visits with the midwife, when asked how i intended to feed the baby i stared at her blankly trying to work out how many ways in which you could a baby whilst breastfeeding and wondering why it mattered
<directhex> tried everything including off-label meds to try & up supply. no dice. still busybodies make it their job to punish you for bottle feeding
<directhex> it's all nestle's fault iirc
<directhex> advertising to african mothers in the 70s that their babies would die unless fed nestle brand formula instead of breast milk is why the WHO brought in those guidelines
<christel> i can imagine that having been hard and you must have felt very disappointed/disheartened -- i can't count the number of friends i have who ended up having to give up on breastfeeding, be it due to low supply or lack of support from healthcare professionals (who generally appear to be lacking when it comes to education on it -- which seems daft considering the WHO guidelines etc)
<directhex> which mean various things like "offering discounts of any kind on formula is banned", up to and including tesco's "Â£5 off when you spend Â£40" coupons exckude fags, petrol... and formula
<christel> david's little red book has really daft comments and smiley faces in it as our GP was so impressed that i still breastfed when he reached two and kept calling him a lucky little boy, something which apparently meant treating me like a child by putting smiley faces in his book!
<directhex> christel, definitely not a lack of support. just supply. probably genetic, too. sister in law just had a baby, also can't get him to feed
<christel> *nod*
<directhex> hospitals stock three brands of formula (out of the four major ones) on the basis that they can give you whatever you intend to use at home. but if you haven't counted on formula feeding, which one do you use?
<directhex> hint: a D4 is a useful thing to own
<christel> hehe
<directhex> we ended up picking SMA. at random.
<AlanBell> don't recall them stocking it, I had to go to boots and buy a couple of everything
<christel> my other half used to kindly offer to go buy some formula whenever we went through a major growth spurt and i was sat there bawling my eyes out having done nothing but feed for N hours
<directhex> AlanBell, well, things may have changed. small 100ml glass bottles plus a million pre-sterilized disposable teats
<AlanBell> this was 12 years ago, probably has got more sensible now
<directhex> these kinds of things also vary geographically
<bigcalm> I wonder if there will ever come a day where one never need reboot a machine for a new kernel
<AlanBell> ksplice was the technology but Oracle bought it to kill it
<AlanBell> someone else could do it, but Oracle will probably stamp on it if the code is written in the wrong jurisdiction
<bigcalm> That was nice of them
<AlanBell> http://www.ksplice.com/
<AlanBell> oh, actually they have done something for precise
<oimon> oracle use it
<oimon> but you have to pay premium
<AlanBell> http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack/download-ubuntu
<AlanBell> oimon: they only use it to annoy redhat really
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<christel> mooorning JamesTait \o/
<JamesTait> christel: o/ How are you my lovely?
<christel> i am exceptionally well! thyself? :D
<christel> i am waiting for the toddler of doom to wake up!
<JamesTait> I'm well, though the weekend didn't seem quite long enough. :)
<christel> aww, they rarely are!
<JamesTait> How was the BBQ?
<christel> it was AMAZING
<christel> \o/
 * bigcalm wanted a sausage
<bigcalm> Just a bit far for 1
<christel> bigcalm: there was plenty of hot, juicy meat!
<christel> <3
<bigcalm> Humm, sounds as though it wasn't cooked enough
 * JamesTait was at a wedding.
<christel> and you didn't bring me?! tsk!
<JamesTait> Sorry, I already ahd a car full. ;)
<christel> we're are like SO over ;)
<directhex> new pram \o/
 * JamesTait sulks
<christel> awww, ok, i am fickle.. i didn't mean that! :P
<christel> directhex: \o/
<bigcalm> directhex: replaced the screw?
<directhex> we had a freebie 2nd hand one. which a) sucked and b) wasn't travel-system-compatible with our car seat, which means more stress for transporting the midget
<christel> what did you go for now? :)
<JamesTait> Heh, "the midget". :)
<directhex> a Which? magazine best buy! :D
<oimon> "which" still exists?
<JamesTait> Oh yes.  Did you not see the "big switch" campaign earlier this year?
<oimon> :|
<oimon> i don't generally notice things
<JamesTait> :)
<oimon> or go in shops, see adverts
<oimon> the good news is I replaced the lcd scren in my wife's HTC desire
<oimon> android brain surgery
<JamesTait> I try to avoid shops as much as possible.  Which makes having a subscription to a consumer-orientated magazine seem kind of redundant, which is why I'm umming and aahing about cancelling it.
<christel> \o/
<christel> haha
<oimon> i try not to buy things either
<oimon> but my wife thinks otherwise
<JamesTait> No comment. ;)
<christel> i sometimes try not to buy things.. i am not very good at not buying things
<christel> the postman asked me the other day when i was intending to stop ordering so much stuff :(
<oimon> before i was married, i managed to amass a massive load of money just by not spending it on unecessary things
<oimon> christel, really?!
<christel> yes :S
<oimon> lol
<christel> it was a tad embarassing!
<JamesTait> oimon: Well, my kids know not to come and ask me for stuff.  It's not that I never buy them anything, but I ask them to justify the spend. ;)
<JamesTait> So they go and ask Mom first, win her over, then get her to come and ask me. :)
<bigcalm> JamesTait: sounds like me as a child :S
<JamesTait> bigcalm: Oh yeah, I have no doubt I used to do the same.
<AlanBell> JamesTait: my kids ask me first, I say yes, they go check with mum, she says no, I keep telling them that getting a second opinion when you already have the answer you want is illogical
<christel> hahahaha
<JamesTait> AlanBell: I like it. :)
<christel> <3
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Ahoy popey. How's the tax haven today?
<popey> Warm
<popey> sunny
<directhex> covered in bees
<bigcalm> Bees are cool
 * bigcalm reminds me to check weebl's stuff
<gord> Beeds?
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XcT49ms4yg
<gord> bees? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4MqTCIDKhU
 * bigcalm giggles
<MartijnVdS> http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7044/oprahbees.gif ?
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc0h1V7NwHo
<oimon> roads and tube around olympic park are quiet today
<dwatkins> I assume directhex was quoting Invader Zim...
<dwatkins> ...or possibly Eddie Izzard
<bigcalm> I remember it from Eddie Izzard
<dwatkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo to save anyone else looking it up
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod! Morning
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> bigcalm: 200 miles just over 1/4 of a tank of diesel used can't be bad :)
<davmor2> hmmmmmm /me doesn't like where his inbox is going
<bigcalm> davmor2: if only the fuel gauge was linear ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: well we are guestimating at 5-700 miles a tank depending on how much of it is moving motorway :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: unless you spend your whole time in 20/30/40mph zones, you will get 570+ without trying
<davmor2> bigcalm: indeed :)
<davmor2> very nice car though :)
<bigcalm> Glad you're liking it
<davmor2> bigcalm: I could figure out why the cruise control didn't work then I took my foot completely off the clutch and it did, it's like voodoo :D
<bigcalm> You rest your foot on the clutch?
<bigcalm> Hayley doesn't like me using the cruise control. So I make do with the speed limiter
<bigcalm> I'm curious what your car thinks going at 60/70mph really is
<czajkowski> bigcalm: why buy a car with it then!
<bigcalm> davmor2: Use a satnav or speed app on your phone and let me know ;)
<directhex> i get 400-500 miles per tank, but my tank isn't too big
<directhex> too much space taken by batteries
<bigcalm> czajkowski: why buy a car with a glovebox? It isn't required, but it's handy if you need it
<davmor2> directhex: this is a puegeot 407 estate bit bigger I'm guessing :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I didn't buy the car on features alone
<mattt> 200 miles w/ a 1/4 tank?
<mattt> i need me one of those
<directhex> yeah, here we go, 45 litre tank. that's about the same as my last car (a honda jazz)
<davmor2> directhex: the batteries are the killer for you if it is dual petrol/eletric
<directhex> diesel 407 saloon is 66 litre tank.
<directhex> all 407's in fact, since fuel tank is largely defined by the base chassis
<bigcalm> It's raining \o/
<mattt> \o/ ?
<bigcalm> I like rain
 * mattt dislikes bigcalm
<mattt> kidding
<bigcalm> Hah
<directhex> it's raining men?
<mattt> rain is fine, but enough already for a few weeks :)
 * bigcalm tum-te-tums
<bigcalm> Ever so slightly bored of Mondays
<nja> Hello
<nja> Friends forcing me into karaokeparty...
<nja> http://www.karaokeparty.com/en/battle/5165547/
<davmor2> nja: that doesn't mean you have to inflict it on us honest
<nja> @davmor2 Just showing you the results
<czajkowski> hello twitter Ng
<czajkowski> ahh he went
<czajkowski> I wanted to @him again
<davmor2> czajkowski: please this is a family channel :P
<czajkowski> davmor2: ahh yes @it @is @indeed
<davmor2> czajkowski: if you put @ in front of one more word I may have to travel to London and tickle you :P
<AlanBell> oh I see, can't come down for a BBQ, but a tickle is worth the visit!
<davmor2> AlanBell: I can book it and spend the day working at bluefin the tickle would just be to annoy czajkowski it's the cherry on top :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: when you coming down
<davmor2> czajkowski: not for a bit unfortunately which is a shame I really want to see the new office :)
<AlanBell> https://uds.ubuntu.com/ Copenhagen
<czajkowski> and for  4 days
<AlanBell> and no sponsorship for community members for UDS?
<czajkowski> eh?
<AlanBell> I am not going to this one anyway, I just don't see the link to the form
<czajkowski> I didnt think it was open
<czajkowski> http://uds.ubuntu.com/register/
<AlanBell> yeah, it mentions sponsorship there (and also includes "Submitted your expenses at the end of the event by Friday 8th June 2012")
<AlanBell> but register and sponsorship were two different things (might be combined now)
<AlanBell> http://uds.ubuntu.com/sponsorship/ was the link last time I believe
<christel> COPENHAGEN is woooooonderful
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I suspect people havebeen asking over and over location and date the site is just up
<christel> i am also ever so slightly suicidal having spent an hour and a half in the play park surrounded by mums attempting to talk to me :(
<czajkowski> maybe am wrong
<christel> (i am really not cut out for this parenting lark)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, might well just be stuff not updated yet, and it is fine if there isn't sponsorship available, it was always an amazingly generous thing to offer
<christel> indeed
<sebsebseb> hi
<n1md4> Hi.  Looking at getting a budget GeForce 880GT for HTPC and some gaming.  I'd like to have VDPAU support, and thought it would have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo.  But, I've then fished around for a review and found this (rather old 2007) Phoronix article http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ecs_geforce_8800gt&num=3 and I quote "Another note about the NVIDIA support under Linux is th
<n1md4> ... empirical evidence would be best ... Azelphur ? ;)
<directhex> 8800?
<directhex> 880 doesn't exist
<gord> fwiw a GeForce 880GT doesn't exist ;) i think you mean an 8800GT, which is hugely underpowered for gaming
<directhex> it's a decent workhorse, for a 4 year old pc
<directhex> wife's old pc had one. it was fine for the games of yesteryear
<gord> yes, it was good for the games that came out all those years ago when the gpu came out, the same is true of any gpu
<n1md4> I did mean 8800GT, you're right.
<gord> you could claim a rage 128pro is fine by those standards
<directhex> no, i couldn't. the entire rage series was diabolical
<n1md4> My criteria is silent, good enough to play supcom and team fortress, and have vdpau support.  Any suggestions?
<directhex> mostly due to the hideous driver legacy of ati rage
<gord> get a 9600 at least
<gord> or honestly just get a cheep geforce 260
<directhex> passive cooling isn't needed on a gpu these days. the fan is silent in 2d mode
<directhex> and in 3d mode, you can't hear the fan over the HAIL OF BULLETS
<n1md4> gah!  I'd feared that.  There were 2, one on amazon the other ebay, I had a 24 hours to wait for payday, and they'd both gone when the time came!
<directhex> i might have a 260 in a box
<directhex> might have binned it
<directhex> who knows
<n1md4> I've a 2900 and 4870, both are really loud and hot.
<directhex> nope, i had a clearout
<directhex> spare audigy2!
<n1md4> What card would you recommend then, that meets those requirements?
<n1md4> I've not a fortune to spend either.
<n1md4> "or honestly just get a cheep geforce 260"  ... oh, I see.  Thanks.
<n1md4> On a separate note, I've a 6600M that idles at around 70~  ... that's not right, surely?
<ironm> Hello. I am not sure if it is a bug in ubuntu-server or just wrong settings on my fresh ubuntu-server 12.04 box. I use encryption for the boot drive and also an additional encrypted volume due to the entries in /etc/crypttab and /etc/fstab (see. http://paste.debian.net/181178/ ). When I open the luks volume manually with "tcryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdb secret" he passphrase input is "hidden".
<ironm> During the boot the passphrase input for the additional volume is "echoed" to the display what I don't want. is it a know bug or do I need to modify the setting? Thank you in advance for any hints.
<ironm> s/ he / the /
<moviebun> Good afternoon all. Having an issue with Ubuntu 12.04 desktop running from a usb. Anyone help please? The initial installation goes fine and I can reboot into Ubuntu from the usb.
<moviebun> I run some updates and install a few programs to the usb. Next time I reboot into the usb, it asks for a username and password. No username or password was created during the installation to usb though. What's happening?
<moviebun> 	Have tried [blank], [blank] - 'ubuntu' and [blank] and various other permutations - all no good.
<ironm> moviebun, do you boot from the usb stick in live mode? .. or already from the HDD ?
<moviebun> I've set the bios to boot from usb having installed the iso using the Pendrive linux installer.
<ironm> so you use your usb stick as disk drive with installed OS
<moviebun> Yes - I'm attempting to use the usb as a portable version of my computer's hard drive Ubuntu installation - same programs etc.
<moviebun> I can install all the programs to the usb fine - it's just the login username and password when the OS boots from the usb that I can't solve.
<moviebun> In a normal hd installation of Ubuntu you can specify to login automatically. There was no such option presented during the creation of the usb unfortunately. I wasn't asked to specify a username and password either.
<ironm> moviebun, I would make fresh install to the usb pendrive and check the user name (and set new password) after the first boot
<moviebun> How do I do that please?
<ironm> man adduser
<moviebun> Ahh - I see. I need to intervene with sorting the username and password out straight after the first boot (while it's still accessible) and before I get to running updates and adding new programs?
<directhex> new pram! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW3ObT8WdBQ
<bigcalm> directhex: do you get a pop-up baby as well?
<bigcalm> directhex: you need to tell your wife about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9zSfinwFA
<moviebun> Thanks for the help ironm - much appreciated. Will give it a try back home later today.
<directhex> bigcalm, was the only way to get the pram and me in shot without standing on the desk, in fairness
<moviebun> \leave
 * bigcalm grumbles a little
<bigcalm> moviebun: no!
<moviebun> sorry - I'll sit in the corner for a while... :-)
<bigcalm> Heh
<pierre1234> gkzuegfbyczef
<pierre1234> g
<directhex> indeed, pierre, indeed!
<czajkowski> bigcalm: only a little, surely not, this is you :p
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> I am now known as an overly grumbly man :D
 * bigcalm is a grumpy old fart
<davmor2> bigcalm: that just means you're get old :P
<bigcalm> It's been a while, but I'm considering putting on some trousers
<directhex> i am wearing clothes, despite working from home!
<christel> haha directhex how many times did you practise that move before filming?:P
<directhex> christel, like, twice? the only part i've had to practice is the dismantling
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> http://londonist.com/2012/07/the-olympic-park-made-from-lego.php look what my mate Warren made
<davmor2> AlanBell: wow that's impressive details I mean I see empty seat in their stadium too ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> lol
 * daubers doesn't understand why the empty seats thing is such a big issue
<daubers> but then I don't really "do" sport. So maybe I'm not the papers target audience :)
<directhex> daubers, because many people were unable to buy tickets
<directhex> and they were priced on the basis of scarcity
<daubers> ah, ok
<directhex> so empty seats are a slap to those who paid through the nose or couldn't get tickets at all
<directhex> as it turns out they're basically all free seats given to various rich people & companies e.g. football association, and those people don't care enough to use their freebies
<daubers> I thought some of them came as part of the contract to deliver the olympics?
<directhex> yep.
<directhex> same heading though. "hey sponsors, have 1000 tickets!" "er, thanks. so who's going to the pub?"
<daubers> Ohhhh, I know the answer to that one.... is it me?
<popey> giving them to the army and people who volunteered to help is a token gesture to placate people
<directhex> popey, they should have been receiving free tickets anyway. far moreso than samsung and addidas
<livingdaylight> I was at the Olympics yesterday when it poured monsoon rain. There was absolutely no where to find shelter and take cover, except for a few toilets that were packed out
<livingdaylight> It's incredible that within the multi-billion pound budget to create this Olympic event not 1penny was spent on providing cover for people in the likely eventuality that it would rain.
<dogmatic69> livingdaylight: 5 quid brolly?
<livingdaylight> dogmatic69: Nothing wrong with brollies, but not everyone remembers to bring one; its not the point though is it?
<dogmatic69> livingdaylight: I doubt building shelter for hundreds of thousands of forgetful people is feasible really.
<livingdaylight> we disagree then. For me it reflects someting about how a place is organized and caters for a user's experience
<livingdaylight> if the other extreme is true and it is burning hot it's also (still ) nice to have cover, like marquees at weddings , or canvas (sail) roofs. even the few picnic tables didn't have one umbrella. Charging Â£2.50 for a 99p flake is okay though. lol
<zleap> cover is good if looking at computer screens too,  less glare
<dwatkins> I wish we had ice cream in the office, it's 29.3 degrees
<nja> Hi
<dwatkins> lo
<Brunell> hi there just installed xchat, how do I add servers and join channels? Seems pretty different from IRC
<christel> not like that :s
<ali1234> free delivery on orders over Â£12 from rapid...
<christel> buy all the things
<zleap> hi
<SuperEngineer> hi folks, anybody remember that bug number for weather-indicator not updating, think I ought to make mine a duplicate of it but can't find the one mentioned here yesterday :(
<dogmatic69> SuperEngineer: check the logs maybe?
<SuperEngineer> dogmatic69: brilliant idea - guess my brain is abit more tired than yours - [jealous]
<dogmatic69> bug 1030087
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 964365 in indicator-weather (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1030087 Weather indicator as earthtools.org is down" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/964365
<dogmatic69> \o/
<SuperEngineer> :)
<dogmatic69> SuperEngineer: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ for next time ;)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I found one complaint with my 407 after a weekend driving it,  if you are in the wrong gear you suffer :)  It has plenty of pull.  but if you are doing 30 in forth and can accelerate to 40 forget it, drop the third and put your foot down and it flies :) forth doesn't get real power till 38 :)
<SuperEngineer> dogmatic69: just for info... logged back into launchpad & found mine aleady marked as duplicate - as is 1030087 - all against much earlier [earlier] #964365... impressed
<dogmatic69> :)
<dogmatic69> maybe someone done it for you
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<jacobw> i've heard people rave about 407s before
<MartijnVdS> Proxy Authentication Required?
 * bigcalm slithers in
<MartijnVdS> Slitherin?
<brobostigon> "bad wolf"
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Wrong universe ;)
<MartijnVdS> (Whoniverse?)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ohwell :)
<christel> 13
<christel> er
<bigcalm> Unlucky for you :S
<zleap> lol
<zleap> nothing wrong with 13
<christel> quite :p
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/4tvla.jpg
<bigcalm> Heh
<dwatkins> I was expecting her: http://images.wikia.com/house/images/d/d7/House_Thirteen.jpg (SFW)
<MartijnVdS> Who?
<dwatkins> The character is called "Thirteen"
<MartijnVdS> Strange name
<dwatkins> It's her number on her first day.
<zleap> MartijnVdS, is that from macbeth
<MartijnVdS> zleap: Hamlet I think (Alas poor Yorick etc.)
<zleap> ah
<zleap> oops
<jacobw> evening
<jacobw> dwatkins: she's pretty :)
 * jacobw is a house fan
<dwatkins> jacobw: :)
<Azelphur> Anyone know if there's a way to search ebay auctions that have closed?
<MartijnVdS> google?
<jacobw> Azelphur: are you seeking pain?
<Azelphur> jacobw: It'd be handy for price checking things
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> gabrielle anwar \o/
<AlanBell> Azelphur: sure you can, it is one of the checkboxes in the search, completed listings or something
<Azelphur> so there is
<Azelphur> yet, it still doesn't find any of my monitors
<Azelphur> nobody sells my monitors, ever, they are just that good?
<n1md4> evening all
<Azelphur> Anyone clever have any idea how I'd do this, on Linux? http://files.tested.com/photos/2012/03/16/55-21013-idisplay_galaxytab.jpg
<Azelphur> I've been trying to figure it out for a while and not got very far :(
<n1md4> http://www.talkandroid.com/31426-turn-your-android-device-into-a-second-monitor-with-idisplay/
<n1md4> You mean under Linux?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> that is iDisplay, I know, but iDisplay is Windows/OSX only
<n1md4> I've never tired it, and that link looks to be windows .... right
<n1md4> hmmmm
<zleap> what about vnc
<zleap> but x should be able to display on remote hardware anyway
<Azelphur> zleap: that's the approach I tried to take, I found out x11vnc can clip to a specific area of the screen, but unfortunately I couldn't figure out how to trick the system into thinking there is a second screen
<zleap> ok
<zleap> not sure
<Azelphur> yea, the tricking it into a second screen thing is the really hard bit :(
<n1md4> interested myself, if i stumble across anything I'll let you know
<zleap> i thought it was a case of setting it up so you tell it the IP addy of the remote client
<zleap> display 0:0 islocal then other numbers refer to other displays ( I am not an expert though)
<n1md4> erm - i've screwed a mythbuntu boot process.  I've sda with the install on it, sdb with a windows install, and sdc as a new raid1 half (the other will later be sda).  I've got stuff on sdc, but it shouldnt' be doing anything.  Anyway, every time i boot now, it asks if I want to activate md raid, regardless of what I reply it drops me to busybox .... ideas?
<n1md4> vnc won't extend screens, it'll only allow remote hosts to attach to it (afaik)
<Azelphur> zleap: well in theory they'd both be local and you'd just vnc into it?
<Azelphur> I know you can do totally separate X screens too, the joining of the displays makes it hard
<n1md4> http://superuser.com/questions/305725/linux-use-vnc-to-create-a-second-screen
<n1md4> http://askubuntu.com/questions/65928/adding-a-virtual-screen-to-xorg-conf-11-04-third-display-over-vnc
<n1md4> in case you've not seen those ...
<n1md4> Gonna have to try that at work tomorrow :D !!
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I think the xdmx thing is the only thing that might work
<Azelphur> but modifying stuff to set up like that by default will be difficult
<Azelphur> and enabling the second screen on the fly
#ubuntu-uk 2012-07-31
<Azelphur> ali1234: while your around, you know how I can add a key to apt?
<ali1234> apt-add-key or something
<ali1234> apt-key add <keyfile>
<Azelphur> ali1234: I don't have a keyfile, only "C697D823EB0AB654"
<Azelphur> the site just gives me a repo and when I run apt-get update it complains with that
<ali1234> what repo?
<Azelphur> deb http://download.jitsi.org/nightly/deb unstable/
<ali1234> jitsi?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> :P
<ali1234> google for the key, get answer
<christel> good morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<christel> hellloooooo MartijnVdS \o
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> how do i know if someone is doing that "apachekiller" attack on a webserver?
<ali1234> the log is just full of "::1 - - [31/Jul/2012:02:43:16 +0100] "OPTIONS * HTTP/1.0" 200 - "-" "Apache (internal dummy connection)""
<ali1234> hmm :/
<mattt> that's your localhost
<mattt> (127.0.0.1)
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> i see the problem
<mattt> WHYUDOSEYERSELF?
<ali1234> when i type my website into firefox and hit enter it's putting "https" on the front instead of "http"
<ali1234> server is not setup for https
<ali1234> why is it doing this?
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<nja> Morning knightwise
<knightwise> hey nja , how are you doing today ?
<nja> knightwise: Not bad
<nja> Been coding for 2 hours now and feel like I've done nothing.
<knightwise> Lol , know what you mean
<knightwise> i've been stuck in friggin outlook all morning
<nja> knightwise: Microsoft product.  'nuff said.
<knightwise> Yeah
<knightwise> Got 12.04 running on my MbPro :)
<knightwise> Muuuuch better :p
<knightwise> Now all I need is an app to record friggin Skype
<ali1234> skype uses pulseaudio
<ali1234> record it like you record anything that uses pulse
<knightwise> So straight in Audacity ?
<ali1234> probably
<knightwise> hmm.. should take a look at that
<jacobw> nja: don't worry, i've spent whole days coding and realised that i've actually implementing anything apart from a perfectly useless abstraction of what i had before
<nja> jacobw: I'm doing lots of non visible tweaks, that's probably it.
<knightwise> Grr .. I just wish my Macbook Trackpad wasnt so darn sensitive
<knightwise> popey : Do you have the same problem where your trackpad on your macbook pro is supersensitive under Ubuntu ?
<popey> yes and no
<popey> yes, I did, and no, I don't run Ubuntu on it anymore
<knightwise> Whow ! You switched back to OsX   ?  Now i'm stunned !
<directhex> i don't like osx. it's smelly, like from a bum
<ali1234> +1
<knightwise> Mountain lion is not that great
<knightwise> little bit "Meh"
<directhex> see also: lion, snow leopard, leopard, and earlier
<directhex> i gave up remembering what constitutes "earlier". i think there's a panther and a lynx somewhere
<christel> 022..33033.363.3,63..3,63
<christel> ,,
<christel> sorry ,small child
<MartijnVdS> christel: http://www.youtube.com/numberphile
<knightwise> I must say , dual booting a macbook pro with 8 gigs of ram and both an SSD and 'spinning' drive under 1204 does make for one fast machine
<jacobw> morning
<nja> Morning jacobw!
<czajkowski> aloha
<nja> Hello czajkowski
<hoover_> morning all
<hoover> anyone sucessfully using a galaxy S3 with 12.04?
<hoover> The device comes up in Unity 2d, but all dirs are empty
<czajkowski> nja: oh well done no  @ before nick :)
<nja> :D
<hoover> I've also tried using the PTP protocol on the s3, no luck 8(
<livingdaylight> gm all
<hoover> mornin
<livingdaylight> got Olympic archery in the background
<livingdaylight> I was just thinking, instead of shooting at silly target it would be way more entertaining if they had someone at the other end with an apple on their head
<jjcool37> Hello!
<livingdaylight> Then I discovered this: http://www.devppl.com/flash-game/apple-shooter/
<dwatkins> livingdaylight: that's a nice little game, reminds me of the tank games I used to play on the BBC Micro
<dwatkins> less manual editing of the angle and force, though...
<livingdaylight> Hit apple on second attempt! LoL
 * livingdaylight gives himself a gold medal \o/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<hoover> morning biggie
<bigcalm> Howdy hoovie
<bigcalm> YouTube have been pestering me to monetise my account. I had no idea that anybody was looking at my videos
<bigcalm> Haha, it's a minecraft video I made. Figures
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Which means it's hellishly out of date now
<gord> i used to get those but then i got a copyright infringement thing and had to go to copyright school and now i don't think they want me anymore, so i suggest doing that
<bigcalm> I click the button to enable and it says no
 * bigcalm shrugs and gets on with life
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<JamesTait> Looks like summer's back!
<bigcalm> Seasonal rain and generally grey? Yep :)
<gord> turns out my new monthly data limit resets on midnight tonight, so i'm downloading as much internet as i can at 10mb/s, so a lot of internet
<gord> uh MB/s
 * JamesTait sighs
<JamesTait> I had the great idea of connecting my external monitor to my laptop and having Olympic coverage running on it.
<JamesTait> nvidia seem to have different ideas.
<n1md4> 1
<n1md4> gah! ignore that
 * n1md4 curses screen!
<n1md4> I'm sure these occassional typos are nothing to do with dvorak ^^
<jacobw> i tried dvorak, then i tried to use vim, then i gave up on dvorak
<mungojerry> ncurses screen?
<n1md4> jacobw: persist, it all makes sense eventually ;)  Although, you know, it's all about vi ... on that note, as a vim user you'd have been more than happy with your arrow keys, no? };->
<n1md4> mungojerry: yeah, meta-" then the window number, sometimes I miss the " :\
<KungFuPanda> morning guys
<KungFuPanda> anyone knows why my vi editor, not going to INSERT mode ? when I press "Esc" then "i" .
<jjcool37> Wassssaaaaaappppp
<bigcalm> KungFuPanda: i == insert
<bigcalm> r would be used for replace
<bigcalm> Oh, _not_ going into
 * bigcalm should learn to read
<KungFuPanda> :P
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * mungojerry is trying to WFH again
<hoover> good morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning hoover
<hoover> Anyone here using a galaxy s3 /w precise?
 * brobostigon is pleased with the nexus7 so far. and likes watching tv on the hd screen.
<hoover> I like the phone too, but didn't investigate enough before I ordered it (work phone)
<mungojerry> n7 seems incredibly popular
<dogmatic69> Is there a way to stop mounted things showing in nautilus?
<KungFuPanda> all right, it does go into INSERT MODE, it just not display the "INSERT MODE" information in the bottom line, do not know why
<hoover> seems there's nothing  but trouble re: s3 <-> 12.04
<hoover> hey biggie
<KungFuPanda> just installed vim instead, much better
<bigcalm> Hello again hoovie?
<czajkowski> popey: ping
<bigcalm> hoover: I have both an sgs3 and Ubuntu 12.04. The only way I connect the two is via AirDroid
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: morning sweetness and light.......oh wait no the other evil and darkness I always get them confused ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: how are you?
<czajkowski> good thanks
<czajkowski> :)
<hoover> bigcalm: thanks for the info biggie
<hoover> so mtp mode isn't working for you, either?
<gord> tempted to ponk down the money for that silly google tablet, but can't actually come up with any uses for such a device
<bigcalm> I've not bothered to connect it via any other means
<hoover> bigcalm: is this a free app?
<bigcalm> Yes
<hoover> Ok, thanks, I'll look into it
 * christel hugs czajkowski and bigcalm 
<hoover> could be a problem at work though where the WLAN is separated from the internal network
 * bigcalm squeezes christel
<czajkowski> hmm since I upgraded to JB I cannot get my phone to work on 12.04 in fact
<bigcalm> hoover: doesn't require internet access
<czajkowski> annoying
<czajkowski> christel: herrrro
<christel> hi sugar
<hoover> JB?
<bigcalm> hoover: as long as your phone can get an IP address from your internal network
<hoover> Ah, jellybean
<bigcalm> hoover: Jelly Bean
<hoover> bigcalm: that's the problem... wifi is completely separate from our wired network here, so I'll *have* to try that at home ;-)
<moviebun> Hello all - having problems with Ubuntu 12.04 on a usb. When I reboot, the display either goes to sleep after the splash screen (no signal - happens on 2 base units I've tried it on) or hangs after the splash screen, returning to a black screen - (on another base and a laptop). Any suggestions please?
<bigcalm> hoover: I see
<hoover> It's really annoying to see Linux devices connect to win / mac but not on Linux 8(
<hoover> (i know it's the bloody vendor's fault ;-)
<moviebun> This is 12.04 installed with persistence. Have created a user account and the initial login works fine. Where it falls down is when I reboot the computer - then the display falls over.
<hoover> brb, lunchtime
<davmor2> morning christel
<christel> hi hi davmor2
<popey> czajkowski, pong
<KungFuPanda> anyone here know projector ? Optoma GT750 Projector ----- is it good  ?
<hoover> back
<meet> ever since i updated my ubuntu from 11.10 to 12.04 window resizing, closing and those buttons have been acting weirdly. also the overall stability has decreased. what could be the reason? i use gnome 3
<andylock1an> heya all
<brobostigon> hi andylock1an
<andylock1an> how goes things
<brobostigon> not so hot, the after affects of the heat, affecting my eczema. and you andylockran ?
<andylockran> yeah, I have no complaints
<brobostigon> :)
<livingdaylight> Is anakondi part of a metapackage which is safe to remove? I doubt I have any use for it including Kontacts, and Kmail
<AlanBell> !info warsow
<lubotu3> Package warsow does not exist in precise
<AlanBell> http://www.playdeb.net/software/Warsow doesn't appear to do anything useful, anyone else know how that is supposed to work?
<popey> it was
<popey> in oneiric
<popey> !info warsow oneiric
<lubotu3> warsow (source: warsow): fast paced 3D first person shooter. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.50+dfsg1-1ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 1800 kB, installed size 3444 kB
 * bigcalm rumbles into town
<gord> AlanBell: its a little weird, you have to add their repository to your apt sources then you can use install this now to download (or just use the software centre)
<AlanBell> hmm, that isn't smooth
<bigcalm> Hey, is it the weekend yet?
<AlanBell> yes
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Wait a minute...
<bigcalm> My own friends lie to me :'(
<shauno> it's all relative.  it's almost the weekend on my shift rotation :)
<bigcalm> 'tis quiet today :(
<bigcalm> How am I meant to procrastinate with it being so quiet?
<czajkowski> work getting in the way :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: NO IT'S NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<bigcalm> davmor2: too late, I'm being far too productive
 * bigcalm moves some email folders around
<diplo> :D
 * diplo worked today as well
<diplo> Affecting irc time
<diplo> :)
<mungojerry> WFH seems to coincide with increased facebook refresh
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> You could block fb via your router
<bigcalm> During work hours at least
<diplo> there are apps for that already i believe
<diplo> blocks requested sites fora  time period
<cliftonts> hi all
<bigcalm> The weather looks perfect for a thunderstorm. I can but dream though
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<bigcalm> Oh, maybe we'll get some on Saturday according to BBC weather
<diplo> You like thunder then ?
<bigcalm> Love it
<bigcalm> That and lightning
<gord> thunderstorms are great, the resulting several days of rain are not
<mungojerry> has anyone ever had to use tivoli storage manager?
<mungojerry> sorry for swearing
<bigcalm> I like it because a) I live in a house, not a tent, b) electricity cables are underground, c) VM cable is underground, d) electric skies are cool!
<diplo> mungojerry: A long  long long time ago
<cliftonts> it always amazes me how so many people can talk so little! lol
<diplo> Depends on the day cliftonts
<diplo> Somedays you miss your text it's so busy
<diplo> Other days we're all busy with work i guess
<cliftonts> I suppose it's the wrong time of day at the moment
<diplo> yeah + home time :D
<dogmatic69> Would there be much difference in using php vs c saving masses of data to mysql?
<diplo> Depends on source and size of data i guess dogmatic69
<cliftonts> I have to confess to feeling rather depressed today
<mungojerry> diplo, ah i found my answer anyway
<dogmatic69> diplo: its something like 2k or 3k rows every few minutes. I know it is not much for php, but its expected to grow considerably
<mungojerry> which is , TSM sucks
<diplo> It does, we looked at it and used it a little
<czajkowski> diplo: aye does tend to be chattier in the morning
<diplo> And came to the same conclusion
<diplo> OK, so having lot's of issues with Ubuntu at work atm, so.. poll what distro to try in the morning ( Could be my hardware but I really don't have time to test it / fix it on this machine )
<diplo> Anyone tried straight debian recently ?
<brobostigon> yes, i run debian sid/unstable.
<Flashtek> diplo: i do
<diplo> And we like ?
<diplo> many issues
<Flashtek> diplo: it's nice and stable on my servers :-)
<diplo> Keep meaning to try Arch, but i need stability for work and im just not getting it
<Flashtek> diplo: Gentoo ;-)
<diplo> tbh, all my servers are on ubuntu and fine
<diplo> This could be hardware, but it happened directly after last upgrade.
<Flashtek> My laptop is on Ubuntu (Kubuntu actually)
<Flashtek> my Desktop PC is Gentoo
<Flashtek> my servers are Debian
<diplo> One last try with this PC in the morning, then i may throw it out
<diplo> :P
<Flashtek> eBay ?
<diplo> Maybe... but if it is hardware issues i dunno if i can be arsed
<diplo> It's my PC i use for work, because they are to stingy
<diplo> :)
<diplo> right, less talk and more home!
<diplo> Catch you on line later peeps
<Flashtek> roger
<christel> diplo \o/
<cliftonts> does anyone here know of any 1st line support or similar jobs going anywhere?
<bigcalm> cliftonts: PC World?
<christel> hiya gareth
<cliftonts> I think I'd rather starve!
 * christel waves at cliftonts 
<christel> have you checked the usual suspects like monster.com etc?
<cliftonts> and who might you be christel? (excuse the ignorance)
<bigcalm> From my limited experience, the knowledge people lack a lot. So anybody should be able to get a job there
<cliftonts> not yet, I tend not to have a lot of luck on those sites
<bigcalm> christel is your overlord
<cliftonts> bigcalm: I'm not sure I could live with feeling that dirty
<bigcalm> :)
<cliftonts> I don't like it when everyone else seems to know me and I have no idea who they are. Trouble is it happens a lot
 * bigcalm tickles christel :)
<czajkowski> cliftonts: jobs a job, shouldn't really bother you if it would make you feel dirty tbh
<czajkowski> money is money
<cliftonts> That's true, it's a million miles away from where I want to be though.
<christel> cliftonts: /30
<cliftonts> It'd have to be a stepping stone to other things
<czajkowski> cliftonts: well unless you're a millionarire I suggest starting small then
<christel> err
<christel> cliftonts: i was at alan's on saturday, we met briefly
<cliftonts> christel: That narrows it down, I'd guessed that was probably the case. I'm still perplexed as to how you know it's me though
<cliftonts> My reputation obviously preceeds me
<czajkowski> cliftonts: or a simple whois...
<czajkowski> gareth, and narrow it down to how many gareths were there on Saturday
<czajkowski> very simple really :)
<cliftonts> as a man with no functioning memory I'm happy to be in a state of constant bemusement. They say ignorance is bliss
<cliftonts> now the next two questions should be have I ever signed up to monster.com, and if so what credentials would I have chosen?
<cliftonts> well that killed the conversation
<bigcalm> I have gitlab running in an Ubuntu server and found it fairly straight forward to install. Has anybody here set it up on a Debian server? If so, much of a hassle to do so?
<cliftonts> The only jobs I can do always insist on me having A-levels or a degree, which I'll never be able to afford without the job!
<cliftonts> Sufficed to say I find this annoying!
<bigcalm> Join every job service there is and shot gun your CV out there
<bigcalm> Join agencies
<cliftonts> I'm working on it but unfortunately I'm not really able to sell myself
<cliftonts> I'm capable but because I didn't get along with the college course I went on I sort of got sidelined and never got IT work
<cliftonts> I got a job in 2006 but my ex was kind enough to get me the sack!
<AlanBell> come and see the Ubuntu UK podcast studio https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/226b753eeff113fc0d04796f28668efdf61ea7f4?authuser=0&hl=en#
<diplo> hangouts killiung my desktop :/
<diplo> Suppose I ought to upgrade from 10.10
<oly_> if its not a silly question where do you disable text in application toolbars ? just noticed my laptop has started showing this again but i can not find the option anymore in 12.04 :/
<ali1234> what applicaitons?
<SuperEngineer> embarresing... just read headline "the upcoming descent and landing of Mars rover Curiosity onto the Red planet"
<SuperEngineer> as "the upcoming descent and landing of Mars rover Curiosity onto the Red Hat planet"
<SuperEngineer> come on brain - stop it!
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<zleap> nite
<brobostigon> good nigt zleap
<n1md4> can sometest my irssi setting by quitting and joining again? :)
<n1md4> In fact, don't worry, it's not worked :(
<Azelphur> popey: is it ok if I post a rather long list of used stuff I'm selling in here? (It's just a bit.ly link to a spreadsheet :P)
 * popey shrugs
<Azelphur> lots of computer related gear, jogglers, etc, just old stuff that I want to upgrade or don't use any more that people in here will probably want xD
<Azelphur> http://bit.ly/M6vnzo there we go, lots of things
<bigcalm> My better half would not be happy if I were to buy more tech junk
<n1md4> 880GT?
<Azelphur> hehe, my stuff isn't too junky, I tend to upgrade fairly often
<Azelphur> n1md4: 8800GT, see the note and price
<bigcalm> She wouldn't see it that way
<n1md4> oh wait, yes ;D
<Azelphur> that's the one that randomly melted :(
<n1md4> I'll take that for pnp only!
<n1md4> I've an idea
<Azelphur> hehe
 * Azelphur ponders how much royal mail charges for postage
<Seeker`> Azelphur: sold the FPGA already?
<n1md4> hmmm 10 ...
<Azelphur> Seeker`: nope
<Seeker`> how much?
<Azelphur> I paid $120 for it and it's pretty much just been opened and looked at, so probably Â£60+pnp?
<ali1234> are those the iiyamas that randomly turn off?
<Azelphur> ali1234: they stopped doing that and havn't done it in years, I think perhaps it was a GPU/Power issue
<ali1234> i will take that broken nvidia
<Azelphur> haha, competition :p
<Azelphur> I think n1md4 already laid claim to it
<ali1234> fair enough
<ali1234> after market coolers are way better than the stock ones anyway
<ali1234> i don't think i'll ever use a stock cooler again on a high end card
<Azelphur> if it even works, I have no idea if it actually works at all
<ali1234> they have thermal shutdown
<Azelphur> do remember the thing got hot enough to literally melt the fan on it
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> selling the fan controller? didn't you only just buy it?
<n1md4> Azelphur: would be still interested, sorry ali1234 :\
<Azelphur> ali1234: nah that's my old fan controller, I got USB ones now
<ali1234> would be interested in the fpga board too
<Azelphur> hehe FPGA is up for grabs, Seeker` is interested in that too
<ali1234> i dunno... i have too much junk already
<ali1234> unfortunately non of it is saleable
<n1md4> Don't we all?!?  That's the way :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> quite a lot of it has "NOT FOR RESALE" stamped on it
<Azelphur> I resell things that say not for resale on them http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png
<dogmatic69> Anyone know why swap would be at 2.1gb (60%) when ram has 2gig spare
<Seeker`> Azelphur: you haven't plugged the FPGA in to one of your exploding USB ports of doom, have you?
<Azelphur> Seeker`: nope, and my USB ports arn't exploding of doom :(
<Seeker`> tell that to the Arduinos you slaughtered mercilessly!
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> Seeker`: I'm 99% sure that was PEBCAK/Software issue
<Seeker`> haha
<Azelphur> baring in mind I don't have a clue
<ali1234> you should get the new arduino that doesn't have the ftdi chip
<ali1234> it's impossible to break it
<Seeker`> don't say that
<Azelphur> haha
<Seeker`> it isn't exactly easy to destroy older arduinos
<ali1234> it is if you reprogram the ftdi to use external xtal
<ali1234> which is the only way i can see how it could have broken in the way it did
<Seeker`> NO! DAMN YOU PEER!
<Azelphur> peer strikes again
<directhex> goddamn pears
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-01
<christel> good morning
<christel> 4/1
<christel> er
<diplo> Morning
<feisar> morning
<hoover> morning all
<daubers> morning
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<hoover> morning alan, brobo, daubers!
<brobostigon> morning hoover
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
 * jacobw welcomes hoover to #ubuntu-uk
<jacobw> how's it going brobostigon?
<brobostigon> jacobw: not so hot, but on the mend. and you?
<jacobw> i'm very well thanks :)
<jacobw> http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/07/31/1831233/fedora-18-to-feature-the-gnome2-fork-mate
<jacobw> i think this is not good
<brobostigon> :)
<hoover> thx jacobw
<brobostigon> cool. i just asked google if it is going to be cold today, and it replied clearly no.
<jacobw> i've misunderstood, they're packaging MATE, which is good
<brobostigon> google now*
<MartijnVdS> "They're featuring Gnome 2, mate"
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: cool
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thats what i thought.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait :)
<JamesTait> brobostigon: o/
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<oimon> mate is like cinnamon but without the nice bits, right?
<gord> merry mailman day to one and all
 * bigcalm grumbles
<bigcalm> I need to tell our LUG admin to remove plain text password from the reminder emails :(
<AlanBell> mailman will do that
<AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk see warning about not using a valuable password
<bigcalm> Indeed, yet it can be disabled
<bigcalm> I can't remember the last time I got a reminder email from the Ubuntu UK loco
<AlanBell> oh, we probably don't have that turned on, but I presume if you request your password to be sent then it will do
<bigcalm> Not a good system imo :)
<bigcalm> What would cause a mysql table to crash?
<diplo> bigcalm: corrupt ?
<diplo> If so shutting down during queries
<diplo> That's the only personal experience I've had, used to have  aserver that hard locked occasionally and had to repair tables after each time
<bigcalm> diplo: there's no reason for mysql to have done that on this client's server. The server also has an uptime of 127 days
<bigcalm> Using repair table worked, but reduced the number of rows from 49 to 48, no idea what data was lost :)
<diplo> mysqld been running along time as well, or could that have crashed
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Fun
 * bigcalm drags the company into modern times
<bigcalm> Have set up gitlab for us to use instead of Subversion
<oimon> anyone who uses cyanogen know how to disable the vibrate when you pwoer off?
<oimon> it wakes up my wife when i read late in bed
<hoover> oimon: she sounds touchy ;-)
<hoover> bigcalm: out of memory situation?
<bigcalm> hoover: a possibility. It's a shared machine as far as I know
<hoover> bigcalm: you should be able to find something in dmesg if that should have been the case
<bigcalm> -bash: /sbin/dmesg: Permission denied
<bigcalm> Didn't think I would have access
<hoover> you don't have root?
<oimon> hoover, my wife is not the tablet :P
<oimon> the tablet makes a loud buzz as it powers off, as does my phone
<hoover> oimon: Wow, that seems extremely loud then
<bigcalm> hoover: no :) Not all of our clients have hosting which gives some complete control of their machines. Sometimes we're lucky to get SSH :|
<bigcalm> Though, those tend to be smaller companies
<diplo> Anyone know how to grab home dir in php ?
<diplo> If possible, $_SERVER stores document_root
<diplo> just wondering if there is a simple way to grab users homedir
<bigcalm> diplo: have a look in $ENV
<diplo> k ta
<bigcalm> Erm, $_ENV
<diplo> Same as $_SERVER :/
<diplo> Will keep looking
<bigcalm> diplo: have a look at getenv();
<hoover> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19055707
<hoover> Nice
<oimon> chrome + flash = super fast videos :(
<gord> $thing + flash = :(
<bigcalm> diplo: getenv('HOME')
<oimon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19076244 weird - article does not explain why they weren't trying
<oimon> ah, from another article Both pairs were already through to the quarter-finals with the winners to face China's Tian Quing and Zhao Yunlei.
<brobostigon> lol, i am just watching the news, and apparently last night, two badmington teams, tried to purposly not win. very weird.
<oimon> brobostigon, see my comment ^^
<diplo> bigcalm: Does return anything here, most succesful option so far is get_current_user()
<diplo> And hope the setup is always /home
<diplo> :)
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, yes.
<diplo> Doesn't*
<bigcalm> diplo: ho hum
<bigcalm> Works here :S
<bigcalm> I guess HOME is defined in Ubuntu 12.04
<oimon> ~ is always the homedir
<diplo> heh, I'm developing on ubuntu but hadn't tested there.. trying to get round a shared host issue
<diplo> How bad is it to do ../ from doc_root ?
<diplo> getenv doesn't work on my 12.04 box ?
<diplo> just tested
<bigcalm> <?php echo getenv('HOME'); ?> from the CLI doesn't work?
<diplo> Nope
<bigcalm> Goodness
<oimon> running remmina, my dock shows the brasero icon, weird
<davmor2> morning all, czajkowski prod
<diplo> OK, get_current_user() will have to suffice till i sit down and write something better :)
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> morning bigcalm czajkowski how are you both?
<bigcalm> davmor2: Still waking up
<czajkowski> davmor2: grand thank
<czajkowski> s
<davmor2> bigcalm: still! you idle turnip
<bigcalm> It's what I get for working late
<davmor2> czajkowski: I didn't ask how much you'd be worth on the open market :P  glad to hear you're both good anyway :)
<andylockran> can anyone help me troubleshoot a networking issue
<andylockran> massive latency: http://dpaste.com/779292/
<andylockran> from the router things look ok
<davmor2> bigcalm: how you finding the new version of skype?
<bigcalm> davmor2: hasn't crashed on me yet :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: well that's a good start I guess :)
<bigcalm> Indeed
<gord> geez stoopid summer holidays. the kids outside have bikes but all they do is go in a circle in the little shared outside bit there. why even have a bike at all?!
<diplo> andylockran: Can see on @ 113ms
<diplo> Or are you meaning the *'s ?
<andylockran> tje *s?
<andylockran> root@sauron:/var/log# ping bbc.co.uk
<andylockran> PING bbc.co.uk (212.58.241.131) 56(84) bytes of data.
<andylockran> 64 bytes from 212.58.241.131: icmp_req=1 ttl=245 time=48.4 ms
<andylockran> 64 bytes from 212.58.241.131: icmp_req=2 ttl=245 time=52.8 ms
<andylockran> ^C64 bytes from 212.58.241.131: icmp_req=4 ttl=245 time=13.0 ms
<andylockran> --- bbc.co.uk ping statistics ---
<andylockran> 4 packets transmitted, 3 received, 25% packet loss, time 11135ms
<andylockran> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 13.026/38.077/52.806/17.805 ms
<bigcalm> !paste | andylockran
<lubotu3> andylockran: Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<diplo> andylockran: Just one thing I've come across before is that Linux uses UDP for traceroute and windows uses ICMP
<diplo> And other setups do things differently so you can get different results
<diplo> Some routes don't allow icmp/udp
<diplo> man traceroute you can see all the options
<andylockran> ok, ewl
<andylockran> ok, ewl
<gord> ok, ewl
<oimon> ok, ewl
<DJones> \o/ First Gold Medal for GB
<oimon> rowing?
<DJones> Yep
<oimon> yay
<oimon> i've got smurfs on my olympic feed - does BBC support html5?
<oimon> ah, it's the pepper flash that plays stuf too fast in chrome
<oimon> disabled it, and enabled regular flash instead
 * oimon bags a few outlook.com addresses
<daubers> oimon: restarting your spam empire?
<oimon> interestingly, fredbloggs is taken , but you can get fred.bloggs
<oimon> unlike googe
<oimon> so if you bag fbloggs, you should also try f.bloggs
<oimon> you can add an alias
<oimon> so multiple accounts are not necessary
<jacobw> what is outlook.com?
<DJones> jacobw: hotmail.com with a new curtains
<jacobw> does it support IMAP?
<jacobw> the last time i checked, hotmail didn't support IMAP :(
<zleap> that is to stop you using basic outlook type program with hotmail or something
<zleap> either that or MS are not capable of writing software to support solid standards
 * jacobw sees that the skype acquisition has now been utilised
<zleap> yeah got it running now
<zleap> skype that is
<jacobw> microsoft is one of the companies most capable of writing software to support whatever they want to support
<zleap> i was joking,  however it took tham years to write a browser to support proper html standards
<zleap> hence you had issues with web pages not working properly
<jacobw> they don't make life difficult because they're not capable of making it easy, see active directory, it's very easy.
<christel> rawr
<oimon> found out that the fix for the smurf bug is simply to disable hardware accel
 * bigcalm back flips into his office chair
<Dave2> mmhm
<oimon> 5.6
<bigcalm> \o/
<christel> :o
 * Flashtek pushes bigcalm's char down the corridor
<bigcalm> Weeeeeeee
<christel> 7msg bigcalm http://soundcloud.com/kapslap/nothing-inside-molly
<christel> er
<christel> hello norwegian keyboard layout of fail
 * christel swaps back to Normal
<bigcalm> Hehe
 * bigcalm toe-taps
<christel> just help me find molly alright? :P
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Molly sounds like a drug
<christel> yes! find me some drugs!
<bigcalm> :O
<christel> or just help me find molly..
<christel> P
<christel> :P
 * bigcalm makes christel a coffee
<christel> mmmcoffeee
<christel> it is SO quiet
<bigcalm> shhh shhh
<czajkowski> any UML folks in here?
<bigcalm> I subscribe, but I doubt that's what you mean
<czajkowski> do you group them into fewer general steps and then expand them into a class diagram
<oimon> http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2012-08-01/video-of-boris-stuck-on-a-zip-wire/
<oimon> made me laugh
<bigcalm> UML != Ubuntu Mail List?
<shauno> I always thought it was usermode linux, but I'm not sure that's still 'a thing'
<czajkowski> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Modeling_Language
<czajkowski> !UML
<jacobw> umbrello
<christel> should i go watch the new batman film?
<christel> ON MY OWN?!
<czajkowski> christel: I did the other night
<christel> i have never been to the movies on my own :o
<christel> is it scary? :D
<czajkowski> eh no
<czajkowski> you loon
<christel> haha
<christel> <3
<davmor2> christel: the only scary bit is if you sit next to a weirdo, mind you it's all perspective they might think you are the weirdo
<christel> hahaha
<Pendulum> christel: go for it :)
<gord> going to the movies on your own isn't strange, its such a solitary activity anyway no matter if you go with anyone else or not
<gord> soon as the lights dim its just you and the film
<christel> the c64 is 30 years old today (it was my first computer too) -- can i celebrate this with cake?
<christel> CAKE
<directhex> celebrate every day... with cake!
<Pendulum> christel: cake is appropriate for all occasions
<christel> mmmcake
<czajkowski> we're having cake
<czajkowski> penguins on top
<czajkowski> carrot cake in the middle
<czajkowski> http://ubuntuone.com/68uEJhilNxgeWBsiFbaBwj  <--- yummy
<christel> OMNOMNOM
<czajkowski> no herrings :)
<christel> aw :(
<christel> herring cake is MY FAVOURITE
<christel> i just realised i've forgotten to eat today
<christel> maybe i should have breakfast (cake!)
<jacobw> is there a mature wiki project with a better permissions implementation than mediawiki?
<jacobw> mediawiki's permissions extensions are inconsistent and odd
<directhex> mediawiki doesn't believe in your fascist "permissions"
<directhex> it believes in freedom for all!
<daubers> comrade directhex has the correct idea! Come the revolution the people will have the power of the wiki!
<daubers> That or mediawiki's permissions system is a stick with "Don't do it again" written on it to beat people with
<bigcalm> dd-wrt - can I not enable a port forward for a specific incoming IP address?
<ali1234> dd-wrt is a gui enabled firmware for noobs. so no.
<ali1234> try openwrt instead
<bigcalm> ali1234: maybe not ready? http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt320n
<bigcalm> What's the word on the street about TomatoUSB?
<diplo> guys and girls
<diplo> Better to use /usr/bin/env perl or /usr/bin/perll ?
<diplo> -l
<diplo> I'm seeing both used a lot recently and not sure whats best practise ?
<AlanBell> /usr/bin/env {perl/python} is supposed to be better
<diplo> I can see it being more transportable to different sites/machines
<AlanBell> slightly more cross platform apparently
<diplo> yeah
 * diplo goes with that. I think i'd made my decision, just wanted someone to agree :D
<jacobw> bigcalm: i've just acquired a linksys wrt54gl
<jacobw> bigcalm: 802.1x on my home network \o/
<christel> i er.. wow
<Dave2> do you now
<christel> Dave2: yes!
<christel> omnomdebonbon clearly cant work out whether to stay or go
<Dave2> indeed
<christel> can i BAN HIM FROM TTHE INETRNETS?
<christel> bigcalm is very odd/
<bigcalm> I'm odd eh? :P
<christel> yes!
<christel> :P
<Dave2> I'm even.
<christel> why excellent!
<gord> i agree with the assement of bigcalm
<bigcalm> Thanks!
 * christel tickles gord 
<christel> pretty Pendulum! join bigcalm and i on google hangout (so that i can perv over you whilst drinking beer)
<Pendulum> christel: I don't look all that great today, but I'll come hang out anyway
<christel> woop!
<christel> you always look great!
<christel> \o/
<jacobw> kick
<christel> jacobw: kick Pendulum ? :o
 * AlanBell is having an "oh I will just quickly do .." kind of afternoon, in which nothing turns out quickly
<christel> aww
<christel> Dave2: you're the (scape)goat
<Dave2> I amâ½
 * lazarus_ got a bit ballsy and bought http://tinyurl.com/bosv52c 
<lazarus_> figured why not lol
<christel> AlanBell: i am having the sort of day where i am perving over Pendulum \o/
<Dave2> :o
<Dave2> THE BANDâ½
<Dave2> Why do I keep using interrobangs today
 * Dave2 puts his compose key away
<MartijnVdS> Whyâ½â½â½
<Dave2> â¸I DON'T KNOWâ½
<MartijnVdS> â¸MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE AWESOMEâ½
<Dave2> Do you think soâ½
<christel> Dave2: you're cute.
<christel> that is all
<christel> i am horny.
<christel> (no for real, czajkowski, bigcalm and Pendulum can attest)
 * bigcalm tuts
<OmNomDeBonBon> I just ate a whole pack of jaffa cakes in like 5 minutes. :|
<christel> OMNOM!
<christel> :D
<bigcalm> OmNomDeBonBon: did it fix your connection?
<christel> it would appear to have done!
<christel> :p
<OmNomDeBonBon> Suggestion: a more generous flood protection limit so I don't get killed when my client tries to join 25 channels at once because Virgin Media can't code a router OS to save their lives.
<OmNomDeBonBon> I was wondering why I was banned from so many channels...
 * Dave2 raises an eyebrow
<OmNomDeBonBon> bigcalm: not really. I'm going to have to leave some channels to get myself within the flood protection threshold.
<OmNomDeBonBon> Dave2, we meet again.
 * Dave2 raises the other eyebrow
<OmNomDeBonBon> I thought you lost the other eyebrow in that crÃªpe accident.
<christel> AlanBell: what on earth are you doing? that noise is quite scary!
<christel> :o
<brobostigon> skype on android sucks balls.
<brobostigon> surprise.*
<christel> yes.
<dwatkins> pah, use SIP ;)
<MartijnVdS> gtalk++
<MartijnVdS> and/or ghangout++
<brobostigon> not actually ever tried.
<dwatkins> does gtalk on Android have voice?
<MartijnVdS> it does on modern phones
<MartijnVdS> (Nexus S and on)
<dwatkins> hmm, I wonder why mine doesn't, then
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: which one do you have?
<brobostigon> experiment?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: CM7 on a HTC Ace
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ah cm7
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you need to use a special version of talk on cm7
<brobostigon> my nexus7 wouls work then?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it should yes
<dwatkins> oh right, I'll look into that, thanks MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cool :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: my xoom and Galaxy Nexus do
<MartijnVdS> Voice & video calling through gtalk.. though they're replacing that with hangouts now
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: is it 4.1 or 4 specific?
<brobostigon> agreed.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: It was on the Nexus S, so I think it was in 2.2 even
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: interesting, the right hw being present aldo.
<brobostigon> also *
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: there should be a camera icon next to your contact names if they support video chat
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: let me look.
<MartijnVdS> and if you open one, there's a microphone icon at the top for voice calling
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: in 2.3.7 on my dream, no.
<MartijnVdS> isn't that one of the very first phones?
<MartijnVdS> Because if it's not Nexus One or newer, you're not going to get it :(
<MartijnVdS> (thank Google)
<brobostigon> yep. the first. adp1.
<MartijnVdS> btw, tonight on the BBC4s: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074pz0
<MartijnVdS> and http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01hlkcq
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> </offtopic> :)
<brobostigon> marked 12 hourd ago, :)
<MartijnVdS> time for fewds
<brobostigon> thts wrong, it was last night.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i think this is a good time to upgrade from my htc dream, if i can get the money.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: rumours of a new Nexus phone at christmas
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes,
<MartijnVdS> So.. be very nice and maybe Santa..
<brobostigon> :)
<OmNomDeBonBon> MartijnVdS: I would expect nothing less than a new Nexus phone at Christmas.
<OmNomDeBonBon> They'll need an Android 5.0 reference device.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Nexus S to Galaxy Nexus took longer than that
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Android 5 won't come for at least a year.. 4.1 just came out and they want to slow down the release pace
<OmNomDeBonBon> 4.1 was a piffling minor release.
<OmNomDeBonBon> You can compare it to 3.0 --> 3.1 --> 3.2.
<MartijnVdS> the upgraded notifications are nice
<jacobw> does anyone know much about zabbix agent? i'm not finding much explanation of it in plain view
<OmNomDeBonBon> Additionally, they'll want a new reference device to compete against the new iPhone - even though the S3 and One X will probably better phones, they need a new product to showcase the new OS.
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: I know a few of our sysadmins went on expensive training courses
<OmNomDeBonBon> MartijnVdS: the N7 is one of the best gadgets I've ever bought.
<OmNomDeBonBon> Only issue is the lack of removable storage.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Can't buy it in NL yet :(
<MartijnVdS> I have a Xoom and a GNEx and my old Nexus One with CM7
<OmNomDeBonBon> Unfortunately there's no good cellular-enabled Android tablet yet.
<MartijnVdS> cellular-enabled = expensive second plan
<OmNomDeBonBon> Not in my country.
<MartijnVdS> Good thing I have a mifi :P
<OmNomDeBonBon> Giffgaff (sp?) in the UK do unlimited internet and 200 minutes for Â£10/mo.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: I know, but I'm in the Netherlands
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: and unlimited internet is only for DSL/fibre/cable
<Seeker`> Azelphur: hows your sale going?
<OmNomDeBonBon> You don't have unlimited 3G internets?
<OmNomDeBonBon> How rare.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: not anymore.. since Vodafone complained unlimited internet was being used too much (wut)
<OmNomDeBonBon> I've had "unlimited" mobile data for two and a half years now.
<OmNomDeBonBon> Vodjafjone.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: it was "Unlimited*" (* except when we decide it's not)
<OmNomDeBonBon> I rarely use more than 200-300mb a month of my 3gb allowance.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: then all other phone companies followed
<OmNomDeBonBon> That's 3gb of fair use.
<MartijnVdS> same here
<MartijnVdS> but.. I get a free second SIM from my employer/land-line ISP with 1GB allowance.. so that goes in the mifi
<OmNomDeBonBon> But yeah I'd like a 3G tablet so I don't have to tether my tablet all the time.
<MartijnVdS> Mifi -> Kindle, Xoom, [sometimes phone] -> Boom!
<OmNomDeBonBon> TBH, I just want a Surface Pro with 3G/4G...but the cellular models won't be out until next year.
<OmNomDeBonBon> Surface RT is out in October, Surface Pro a few months later. Both are wifi-only.
<OmNomDeBonBon> I just want a Windows tablet I can use as a laptop ffs.
 * brobostigon requests sponsorship for purchase, prior, to said release of new nexus phone, as MartijnVdS described.
<OmNomDeBonBon> I have a sneaking suspicion the 3G/4G Surface tablets will ship with Haswell, not Ivy Bridge.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: I read somewhere that "Surface will have as much impact as the Zune"
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Buy put options on facebook stock ;)
<OmNomDeBonBon> Nah, the Zune and Kin were obvious duds.
<OmNomDeBonBon> Surface will dominate the high-end of the tablet market IMO.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or apple stock (and sell after iphone5 is announced)
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: they can't even get it to run in demo..
<OmNomDeBonBon> I think Android will dominate the 7" space.
<OmNomDeBonBon> Didn't Stevie J have problems when they first presented the iPhone?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont understand. soryr
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont understand. sorry.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Apple stock tends to increase in price after big announcements, so if you buy it now (cheap) and iphone5 is announced next month, you'll gain money
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Put options are a way of betting stock prices will drop (which they will, for facebook)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have no interest in apple hw, with current IOS implementation on them.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you're not buying apple hardware
<MartijnVdS> you're buying a piece of the company (which will increase in value, after which you can sell it again)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the hw spec, seems good, however.
<MartijnVdS> if the rumours are true, yes.. it looks great :)
<brobostigon> fail*
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so what is going to change in IOS then?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I don't know, but the rumour sites do 8-)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I've seen some hardware predictions (larger screen, "retina" resolution, etc.)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i dont believe it myself.
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: sorry, I didn't catch the response
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: are they happier for it? :)
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: I'm a little suspicious of 'Our software is AWESOME, come to $STATE and learn all about it'
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: they're using Nagios now.. does that help?
<MartijnVdS> though I think they still use zabbix for some corner cases
<jacobw> yeah, it seems the everyone uses nagios in some capacity
<OmNomDeBonBon> "<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: so what is going to change in IOS then?" Apple are going to innovate a new tech to speed up iOS even more. It's called Project Margarine.
<brobostigon> haha, lol
<christel> rawr
<brobostigon> RAWR
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDeBonBon: Low-fat!
 * bigcalm slumps
 * jacobw prods bigcalm 
<bigcalm> Meh
<jacobw> kde 4.9 is out
<ali1234> so this chromebox has two display ports and if you pick the wrong one you get nothing
<ali1234> nice design there
<ali1234> also my wireless keyboard and mouse don't work with it
<ali1234> (they work fine with linux)
<ali1234> lame.
<ali1234> i'm just sitting here going "wat?" and hitting keys like i imagine someone who would actually buy one of these would
<ali1234> http://code.google.com/p/chromium-os/issues/detail?id=31607
<ali1234> great, so they don't build in any HID quirks stuff by default
<ali1234> argh. so *after* you get a new keyboard and get past the "setup keyboard" screen, *then* it downloads the updates that (in theory) will fix your keyboard
<ali1234> this reminds me a lot of OS X
<ali1234> that's probably because none of the software i use is available and the mouse pointer moves incredibly slowly
<ali1234> oh nice, it has a built in speaker.... wait that's not nice, it's terrible
<ali1234> youtube video playback quality is awful :(
<ali1234> bored now. basically chromebox = a computer that doesn't do anything
<christel> BASICALLY
<yothsoggoth> Sounds like you should've done that review on a podcast, would've been funny
<MartijnVdS> Today's Top Tip: Don't enable -proposed on quantal if you want working X
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRveuk_4Or0
<christel> rawr
<christel> goooooodnight my pretties <3
<brobostigon> RAWR
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-02
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19085980
<ali1234> this story makes no sense and is so technical that it clearly went over the head of the journalist and everyone reading it
<ali1234> i have no idea what it even means or why they even bothered to write it
<ali1234> ok, so reading the original story explains it: the algorithm automatically makes articulated "action figures" from skeleton weighted mesh animations
<ali1234> but geez, the story is so convoluted...
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> that is an odd story ali1234, the whole copyright thing makes zero sense
<ali1234> as i said, if you read the original press release it makes perfect sense
<ali1234> but they've tried to simplify it for laymen, to the point where all sense is lost
<ali1234> and the copyright angle is i guess just thrown in to make it more than a crazy ball of nonsense
<ali1234> well, press release makes sense if you're familiar with skeletal animation systems and 3d printers anyway
<ali1234> once you understand that, the copyright thing makes sense. cos ripping the meshes and animation from games is easy
<ali1234> they do it all the time and make papercraft models
<ali1234> but those aren't posable like an action figure, which is what this new tech does
<ali1234> so now chinese can rip game graphics and make off-license action figures without paying for an expensive designer
<ali1234> the 3d printing aspect isn't so important there, they have proper factories :)
<christel> good morning
<AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, I understand copyright and 3d printing, just don't see why the article said copyright would be a problem unless microsoft/sony use it, when it is a pixar funded project and those others have nothing to do with it
<diplo> Morning all
<ali1234> yeah, they're just fishing for a reason to actually post it
<ali1234> i expect the copyeditors will show up for work soon and clean it up or remove it entirely
<ali1234> it's painfully obvious that the journalists post all the bad articles after they finish work
<diplo> I'm in a oh why did I drink so much last night feeling this morning
<diplo> :/
<christel> good morning diplo :)
<ali1234> oh here's another great one: "what would ernest shackleton have tweeted?"
<ali1234> "it's rly rly cold lol"
<christel> when i finish building my reprap i shall print 3d models of all of you
 * christel nods
<diplo> Quiet in here again this morning, crumpets aren't helping much with soaking up the booze :(
<christel> diplo: you need to add bacon :)
<diplo> I have bacon, but at home :(
<christel> aww
<christel> you should always carry bacon with you my dear!
<diplo> And I was dubious whether I'd get to work on time as it was, let alone cooking bacon as well
 * christel hugs diplo 
<diplo> If we had a grill or hob I would have some here, just a toaster and microwave :/
<ali1234> you can make bacon in the microwave
<diplo> Calling what we have herre a microwave may have been to kind :)
<ali1234> i INSIST that you cook some bacon in the microwave
<christel> i'm with ali1234 on this one
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING HANDSOME <3
 * christel hugs JamesTait 
 * JamesTait hugs christel back
<christel> how are you this fine morning? :D
<JamesTait> Tired. :( But only two more days to work and then two weeks off.
<JamesTait> Not sure if that'll help with the tired or make it worse. ;)
<JamesTait> How's christel?
<christel> oooh do you have amazing holiday plans? :D
<christel> she is well! i am doctoring a heavy head by applying vast quantities of bacon!
<directhex> nursing.
<directhex> "doctoring" means "faking" for some reason. one nurses one's head after too much gin.
<JamesTait> Well, she may be doctoring it as well. :-P
<christel> haha
<christel> i have little faith in nurses!
 * bigcalm slowly awakens
<JamesTait> christel: No holiday plans, really.  Very arm-wavy discussions about camping for a night, going to Gulliver's Kingdom and maybe making a trip to London to see what we can see of the Olympic atmosphere.
<christel> :D
<christel> gosh i havent been camping for years, used to love it!
<JamesTait> I expect most of it will be spent catching up on things around the house.  My office needs a good clean out and tidy up, and then I might even be able to get the ceiling done.
<christel> go camping!
<christel> hehe
<christel> morning bigclam :)
<bigcalm> Ewwo christel :)
<diplo> I'm taking my kids camping next weekend!
<christel> diplo: :D
<diplo> Not sure if this is a good or bad thing yet
<christel> bigcalm: you never came back last night! *sulk*
<JamesTait> The boys are all for camping.  I am too, but I worry that they won't be when we actually do it.
<dwatkins> whereabouts, diplo? North or South?
<bigcalm> christel: I'm so sorry :'(
<christel> diplo: you'll have lots of fun i am sure -- where are you off to or is that undecided?
<bigcalm> christel: I wanted to, but I ended up being a taxi man
<bigcalm> christel: were you on there all night?
<diplo> South wales : http://www.threecliffsbay.com
<christel> bigcalm: sad as it would be to admit to it.. yes :x
<diplo> Well I'm about to phone them up when I sober up a little more, they had places last week
<bigcalm> christel: better than drinking alone :D
<diplo> Swansea specifically
<diplo> Only thing I am worried about is doing it with just me with the kids, guess I'm finding it a little daunting.
<christel> diplo: oh that looks beautiful :)
<dwatkins> My brother's on holiday in Cardiff this week. Apparently it's raining :(
<diplo> That's my two other issues, is putting up the tent ( still not sure I can do it on my own ) and really don't want it to rain :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmmm... Wales = Rain.
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: I once drove over the Severn Bridge into Wales - it started raining the second we finished crossing the bridge
<diplo> Well I wanted to go to Weymouth area but not exactly the best week for it at the mo
<christel> dwatkins: haha
<christel> morning TheOpenSourcer \o/
<dwatkins> "Oh look, Wales has a burger place near the bridge.. aaaand it's raining already"
<TheOpenSourcerer> I begrudge having to pay to get INTO Wales.
<dwatkins> It would be nice not to have to pay for repeated visits, or if you're descended from Welsh families like mw.
<diplo> I begrudge paying so much when the bridge itself is now paid off
<diplo> I know it needs upkeep, but it's getting kind of dear to cross now.
<dwatkins> There's a bridge in Berkshire they charge you 20p to cross. It's a small one, mind.
<TheOpenSourcerer> We went over a small toll bridge a few weeks ago in Oxfordshire - 5p ;-)
<dwatkins> haha which one, TheOpenSourcerer?
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: I know that place!
<christel> i think i've only driven across a couple of times.. but then i usually only go to wales for rugby or cricket and then more so when i lived in bristol so it was easier to hop on a train and then drink vast quantities of beer whilst there :s
<TheOpenSourcerer> Somewhere between Oxford and Banbury
<christel> sadly i've not been to enjoy much of the welsh countryside
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer: There was a rumour that they were thinking of selling it.  Been in the family for generations, apparently.
<dwatkins> Wales is lovely, Scotland's beautiful.
<dwatkins> (yes, I appreciate that I'm saying that having recently mentioned that my ancestors are Welsh...)
<KungFuPanda> morning guys
<hoover> Morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
<christel> dwatkins: scotland i've seen more of :)
<christel> it reminds me of home :)
<dwatkins> christel: I live in Edinburgh - even the drive to work has an awesome view :D
<dwatkins> where's home, christel?
<christel> oh i bet! i <3 edinburgh
<christel> northern norway :)
<dwatkins> ooh neat
<dwatkins> I spent a week in Stavanger once, that had great scenery, I imagine it's just more awesome in the north.
<KungFuPanda> yesterday, I still can run 2 instance of skype under ubuntu. but not today ?
 * dwatkins finds a random place in nothern Norway and confirms this is the case: http://goo.gl/maps/TSz6h
<JamesTait> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.78939&lon=-1.35358&zoom=17 is the place, I think.
<christel> i grew up in a tiny place in the very slim part of norway so we kind of get "everything" (coast, sweden, large glaciers, stunning mountains, the arctic circle, some pretty nifty caves etc etc and of course northern lights *and* midnight sun depending on the time of year!)
<dwatkins> excellent, christel
<JamesTait> christel: Sounds really boring. :-P
<JamesTait> christel: As compared to our rain, rain, rain, grey skies, rain, OOH LOOK - SUN!, oh no more rain....
<christel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svartisen is like five minutes walk from our house
<christel> JamesTait: hahaha i do love a spot of rain ;)
<dwatkins> glacier: n. a lake with a slope
<JamesTait> We do have some lovely countryside though.
<bigcalm> Heh
<christel> JamesTait: yah, there's a few gems here too :)
<dwatkins> JamesTait: oh yes indeed: http://rowla.dyndns.org/gallery/v/Events/Edinburgh/ (panoramas I took near home)
<christel> beautiful :)
<JamesTait> +1 :)
<christel> :)
<dwatkins> cheers; we were quite lucky with the weather
<christel> :D
<czajkowski> aloha
<bigcalm> Good morning czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> one more day or work then on my holidays :)
<JamesTait> Hey czajkowski. :)
<czajkowski> ello JamesTait
<JamesTait> You're getting a head start on me then. :)
<JamesTait> Conspiracy theorists start your engines.
<JamesTait> Got anything exciting planned, czajkowski?
<czajkowski> yup we're renting a car on Sunday and heading down south
<czajkowski> stopping at portsmouth
<czajkowski> then heading on down to Dorset
<christel> hiya pretty girl M3
<christel> er <3
<czajkowski> and staying a week there in a cottage
<czajkowski> christel: herrro :)
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Sounds lovely. And definitely more organised than us.
<czajkowski> JamesTait: see I'm an organiser my other half less organised, it took the olympics to make him organsised!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<JamesTait> brobostigon: o/
<brobostigon> JamesTait: o/
<mungojerry> new dr who trailer, looks a bit silly in places
<dwatkins> http://imgur.com/Vc9m2 for anyone not currently able to watch video of Doctor Who... :)
<bigcalm> I wonder why Docky crashes after using the update manager
 * bigcalm blames directhex just because it's mono :P
<dwatkins> Docky is written in mono?
<mungojerry> yes, but the rewrite, plank is in vala
<bigcalm> iain@snafu:~$ ps ux | grep ocky
<bigcalm> iain      6486  1.6  1.1 1080364 45556 ?       Sl   09:58   0:02 mono /usr/lib/docky/Docky.exe
<directhex> every time, or specific updates?
<directhex> may be confused by some services restarting e.g. dbus
<bigcalm> directhex: almost every time. Maybe I should start recording what's being updated and if Docky then crashes
 * dwatkins sees a facebook comment field and turns Ghostery back on to block this sort of thing
<christel> i am officially crap at doing my invoicing
<dwatkins> christel: have you considered getting freshbooks to do it for you?
<bigcalm> christel: You like the work more than the money
<diplo> christel: It's why I won't ever go self employed
<TheOpenSourcerer> OpenERP is good for this :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> We produce lovely invoices :-D
<bigcalm> Heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some for OpenERP too ;-)
<christel> hehe
<diplo> yeah i do like it, but it still means I need to do it, not someone else for me
<diplo> :)
<christel> i got distracted by violent(!) computer games :x
<bigcalm> Angry Birds again?
<bigcalm> Sweet and innocent christel wouldn't know about anything more violent than AB
<mungojerry> my wife uses unity2d, takes ages to log off/shutdown when using it - anyone else?
 * AlanBell is a bit of a pacifist
<christel> aah there she blows
<bigcalm> Wee
<christel> bigcalm: nah, city of heroes :)
<bigcalm> Fixy fixy :P
<bigcalm> Never heard of it
 * bigcalm googles
<diplo> mungojerry: When i used it last week all seemed fine for me
<bigcalm> I see
<hoover> mungojerry: all reasonably well here, also unity2d
<christel> bigcalm:  i suspect it might not be your kinda thing! tis really rather childish :P
<mungojerry> hmm
<bigcalm> christel: reinforcing my image of a grumpy old man? :P
<hoover> did anyone else read the valve blog entry about fps on Linux?
<mungojerry> yes
<mungojerry> valve rock
<hoover> seems like Linux / OpenGL leaves win7 in the dust ;-)
<mungojerry> i'd like to fast forward 3 years and see what's happening as a result
<AlanBell> jussi: are you here?
<hoover> It's good to see gaming studios finally waking up to the fact that win8 will result in a major suckage
<mungojerry> hoover, they didn't even spend long on it yet, or do anything to the drivers
<jussi> yes
<christel> jussi: BEER!
<mungojerry> http://steeldata.jusnews.co.uk/2012/07/29/paul-beech-pibow-sells-thousands-in-first-week/
<hoover> I hope this trend catches on
<hoover> mungojerry: indeed
<AlanBell> we must all go for a ride in jussi's porsche
<hoover> just like the oracle blokes: "We just typed 'make'" ;-)
<jussi> AlanBell: :D
<christel> jussi: are you in the ukay now? :)
<jussi> christel: Oxford
<mungojerry> pibow sounds a bit too much like tebow
<mungojerry> but looks like the best case i've seen
<christel> jussi: \o/
<dwatkins> christel: http://www.freshbooks.com/ will do your invoicing for you
<christel> jussi: we absolutely should beer before you finland
<mungojerry> its cool how many homebrew type jobs the rpi has created
<dwatkins> mungojerry: you mean in terms of cases and so on for the RPi?
<jussi> christel: we can attempt something friday perhaps, we are reasonably busy though. (are you even anywhere nearby?)
<mungojerry> dwatkins, yeah, and how it's also got people involved in community
<mungojerry> but the money earning jobs mainly
<dwatkins> neat, mungojerry
<mungojerry> amazon thinks 50 shades of grey is in my viewing history, now is showering me with smut
<mungojerry> ah, no, i have recent history turned off, so it is showing me topsellers.
 * TheOpenSourcerer is beginning to wish he hadn't retweeted a tweet about a lost camera. Seems to have gone rather viral. Getting retweet notices every second...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.ifoundyourcamera.net/ ?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: go and delete the tweet
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will that remove the retweets? Then what is someone retweets the retweet?
<TheOpenSourcerer> /is/if
<MartijnVdS> I think it will
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: yarp
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can I just turn off libnotify for a while?
<ali1234> hehehe, webapps?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you can turn off notification on twitter.com -- then it won't mail you
<ali1234> or gwibber?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hotot
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not getting (many) emails.
<ali1234> actually you can turn off the notifications by going into "busy" mode
<ali1234> though i'm not sure how you do that short of opening a fullscreen video player
<christel> RAIN :(
<bigcalm> I thought you said you liked rain?
<christel> i lied :(
<christel> :P
<bigcalm> :O
<gord> hot and sunny up north
<bigcalm> Grey and grey here
<diplo> oh dear, camping now confirmed... no getting out of it now!
<christel> diplo: \o/
<diplo> Had to change location though, still looks good and down the road
<diplo> http://www.nicholastonfarm.co.uk/
<christel> looks good! i am sure the boys (and you) will have a fab tiem :D
<christel> time*
<diplo> Practise putting the tent up this weekend I think is in order + make sure I have all the bits
<christel> :D
<mungojerry> must remember not to visit the twitter web page, rather to use a client instead ...twitter trending topics are always bad news :(
<dwatkins> I always laugh at the trending topics, they're so completely irellevant to me most of the time
<dwatkins> I'm thinking of Google+ which lists things like Justin Bieber as a trending topic half the time, though.
<dwatkins> I don't laugh at bad news, obv.
<dwatkins> I think I should stop looking at twitter because it makes me lose faith in humanity reading the hastag #DontYouJustHateWhen
<mungojerry> makes me sad to read gossip about macualey culkin from the national enquirer that everybody is retweeting as fact
<bigcalm> Tip: don't read hash tags
<davmor2> Morning all
<dwatkins> bigcalm: indeed, I usually don't
<mungojerry> and don't subscribe to people, rather RSS bots
<dwatkins> I have a plugin which disabled most youtube comments, also.
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<dwatkins> mungojerry: yeah, some really useful stuff is available via RSS
<davmor2> bigcalm: jellybean on the xoom is nice
<mungojerry> thats all twitter is to me
<bigcalm> davmor2: OTA?
<mungojerry> e.g. vmwarekb sends tweets of new kb articles
<dwatkins> ah I see, mungojerry - for me, twitter is people, google reader is RSS feeds
<davmor2> bigcalm: No I got bored of waiting so ged'ed it, I get the us wifi updates as goggle roll them out now :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<davmor2> bigcalm: the nice thing is, it is still an official roll out so it works fine
<bigcalm> What did you do to get that?
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.simonjstuart.com/2011/07/23/gedify-your-non-us-wifi-xoom-for-n00bs/
 * bigcalm is a n00b!
<mungojerry> everyone's a noob at something
<davmor2> bigcalm: there are a couple of steps that aren't overwhelming clear but basically they are covered in the pre work trouble shooting,  it takes about 5-10 minutes
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta
<davmor2> bigcalm: and you are likely to have to run the gedifying twice the first time it fails to over write the existing,  and definitely use the rear usb port much faster than the front ones
<ali1234> what does "gedify" mean?
<bigcalm> Does it require windows?
<bigcalm> Google Experience Device -ify
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap that was the one downside
<ali1234> oh.
 * bigcalm continues to wait for a UK release
<ali1234> what does that mean?
<bigcalm> "Since Motorola lied to every Xoom customer outside of the US (misleading us into thinking that the Xoom was a GED, when in fact it isnât), Iâve decided to put up this n00bâs guide to making your WiFi Xoom a GED."
<bigcalm> It means that a GED gets all of the latest things 1st
<bigcalm> The Galaxy Nexus being another GED
<ali1234> i see
<ali1234> GED is good
<davmor2> ali1234: the xoom in the us is a GED which means Google trial it for all updates, Europe doesn't get the update for another 12months or so
<christel> bigcalm: i am bored! entertain me!
<bigcalm> christel: have you seen the white elephant trick?
<davmor2> me does a jig for christel and falls over
<christel> bigcalm: no, show me!
<christel> davmor2: awww <3
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<mungojerry> all the contractors working with us are stuck in the dark ages and use nokia non-smart phones. then they received smartphones to use google auth (rather than a cheaper solution of using key fobs), and they are amazed at the improved call quality
<davmor2> czajkowski: proddington prod how are you
<mungojerry> i think it's cos their phones were ancient tech in the phone world
<ali1234> that's really funny
<ali1234> cos my nokia has significantly better audio quality than any other phone i've ever used
<czajkowski> davmor2: not bad now yourself?
<christel> bigcalm: you're totally fired -- that was a rubbish trick
<bigcalm> christel: I got the name wrong: white-eared elephant ;)
<davmor2> christel: pick a card any card
 * hoover waddles off to get some ice cream
<davmor2> christel: put the business card down its the wrong kinda card :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: busy but good thanks
<davmor2> christel: and the credit card
<christel> aw
<davmor2> christel: no not the tesco club card either
<christel> but you said any card :(
<davmor2> christel: and stop looking in the deck for the queen of hearts or the ace of spades now I mentioned the queen :D
<christel> the people that work for me are idiots, that is all
<bigcalm> You have employees?
<christel> yes, a couple -- though this referred to one of my freelancers
<christel> i am not entirely sure how he decided that "nourrices" would translate as "wet nurse" in a section about fuel containers
<christel> "Furthermore, the thermal motors of the fire pump groups must be tested at least once a forthnight and wet nurses must be refilled after every use."
<christel> ... what
<bigcalm> Hahaha
<christel> (now i will admit that nourrices could indeed be wet nurse, but in this context i suspect he wanted "fuel containers" or even jerry cans!)
<ali1234> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nourrice_%28homonymie%29
<christel> ali1234: aye! but CONTEXT :P
<ali1234> yeah it basically means both those things
<christel> indeed :)
<christel> i am mostly baffled by the fact that he didn't question it and thought it was totally fine to say wet nurses in that sentence
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> well, i'm guessing it's a kind of slang/idiom
<ali1234> like "dumb waiter" probably wouldn't translate very well if you just took it literally
<christel> indeed!
<bigcalm> Most waiters are dumb...
<bigcalm> Most waiters are writers/actors?
<davmor2> bigcalm: put that tray down and do some work
<davmor2> bigcalm: you are wrong, most waiter/waitresses are unsuccessful writers/actors the successful ones don't need to wait tables :D
<ali1234> interestingly google translate only gives the nurse-type definition
<czajkowski> folks may (may not ) enjoy my latest blog post http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/08/02/finally-a-statement-i-can-agree-with-i-am-not-a-geek-feminist/
<bigcalm> tl;dr?
<christel> czajkowski++
<ali1234> wow, backlash?
<JamesTait> czajkowski: Just finished reading it, got wind of it via Jan Wildeboor.
<mattt> bigcalm: :P
<bigcalm> Sorry, I'm working :S
<czajkowski> bigcalm: oh you actually do work!
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<czajkowski> tl;dr pah!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I'll read it later :)
<mattt> will read later too
<mungojerry> from what i read, the woman at the oscon was complaining about hassle from men AND women
<mungojerry> everybody judges people on how they dress, it's by design and part of culture/fashion
<czajkowski> mungojerry: there is a bit of a clash at times, women in eu do dress a lot more relaxed than many of the women I've met in the states. cultural.
<christel> pfft i am in czajkowski's moderation queue! ;)
<czajkowski> moderated
<czajkowski> ;)
<christel> :P
<mungojerry> the comment on the mailing list seemed quite OK, he was just suggesting that some of NP was lacking in technical clarity and her following could be based on her looks
<ali1234> i find the relentless political correctness of ubuntu to be quite tiring
<ali1234> which is why i mainly hang out here
<christel> i didn't have any issue with his comments tbh -- otoh the cynic in me also recognise that "sex sells" and she might very well have a larger following due to the fact that she isn't afraid to show off her chest, but i am not sure it really matters -- sure, she might not be providing the most in-depth of tech talk but if that's the level you're at you're probably already knowledgable enough to make your own choices as to what you ...
<christel> ... want to run/do -- and if a cute girl manages to bring a few entry-level users to the FOSS world (be that because of her chest or because she said ubuntu was awesome) then yanno, that is probably a good thing regardless?
<christel> i am political correctness personified!
<ali1234> lol
<mungojerry> christel, maybe, but such people shouldn't get shocked/offended if their overtly sexual behaviour shocks/offends others (men and/or women)
<AlanBell> the bit I struggle with is that people openly comment on "celebrities" in a completely mainstream context and this is considered normal, but not something you would say to a real person you know
<ali1234> the UK has a very different idea of what political correctness means to the US
<mungojerry> ali1234, that's true too
<ali1234> AlanBell: that's just them/us mentality
<christel> mungojerry: i must admit i've not watched any of her videos, i've seen her website (after the ML posts, never heard of her before) though so i don't really know how she is overtly sexual in her behaviour
<ali1234> people posting offensive comments on celeb's twitter are just repeating the kind of stuff they shout at random strangers while out on the booze on a friday night
<christel> that said, i am probably one of those people who offend people -- there's frequently plenty of cleavage and i shall admit to flirting with lamp posts when noone else stands still for long enough :)
<ali1234> it's all about reinforcing who is a member of the group and who is an outsider
<czajkowski> christel: lol.
<christel> czajkowski: well, tis true! :P
<davmor2> christel: I saw what you did there you left the 'in' of the word 'correctness' easy mistake
<JamesTait> christel: You're not a flirt, are you? ;)
<christel> JamesTait: never ;)
<ali1234> i only offend people over the internet
<ali1234> IRL you'll be lucky to get two words out of me
<christel> aww
<christel> i am probably equally obnoxious irl :)
<christel> (as online)
<davmor2> I only offend people, but in the best possible taste
<JamesTait> davmor2: You're not offensive, you're just a Brummie. :-P
 * JamesTait offends an entire city in one fell swoop.
 * christel claps 
<christel> well played!
<JamesTait> Had to be done, really.
<mungojerry> it must be hungry o clock
<JamesTait> And I know davmor2 will take it in the spirit it was intended.
<mungojerry> if i was a nudist, would i need to "edit myself" for oscon in order not to cause offence? yes
<davmor2> JamesTait: how do you know I was born in Birmingham?
<christel> it's the smell
<christel> it never goes away
<davmor2> JamesTait: although I would go around tell people from wolverhapton that they are brummies generally not appreciated :D
<davmor2> s/would/ would not
<JamesTait> davmor2: Hmm... born I'm not so sure about, but Google+ tells me you live in Wolverhampton, and to an ignorant Notts lad that's close enough. ;)
<christel> gosh i havent been to nottingham in Many Years
<davmor2> christel: Awwww and there was me finkin' twas de aqsunt
<JamesTait> Me neither.
<christel> i once went to see the castle. it was very disappointing
<ali1234> heh
<mungojerry> that bloke on the field with a tractor and grass cutters has the best job out there
<christel> davmor2: :P
<christel> hello popey \o/
<JamesTait> Agreed.  I think the last time I was in Nottingham was shopping for wedding stuff just before Christmas, and it was horrible.
<bigcalm> popey has landed!
<JamesTait> Erm, that would be Christmas 2002.
<christel> haha
<diplo> I like Nottingham, but I really only see it at night when I come up to headoffice
<diplo> I stay in a hotel in the centre of town and then go out drinking/eating
<diplo> Must take a day off one time when I visit to look around.
<christel> 4
<JamesTait> 4 days off, christel?
<christel> yes! take 4 days off :D
<popey> \o/
<JamesTait> christel: I'll be taking 10 very soon.  Plus weekends.
<davmor2> JamesTait: oh so 16 infact
<JamesTait> davmor2: Indeed.
<nja> Hello
<czajkowski> popey: welcome back
<popey> thanks!
 * popey cooks up a saussy sarnie for lunch
 * davmor2 doesn't even know how much holiday he has left
<zleap> yummu
<zleap> yummy
<nja> davmor2: Don't think about it, enjoy it :)
<davmor2> popey: which bit did you cook if it's sauce on bread.
<popey> sossie
<davmor2> oh now it makes sense why didn't you say that in the first place :D
 * AlanBell has chicken legs
<JamesTait> Saucisson.
<JamesTait> AlanBell: Yes, but what are you having for lunch?
<christel> AlanBell: you're terrible.. are they all rolling around, legless now?
<AlanBell> christel: I will fit them with wheels
<christel> hahaha
<christel> like bill bailey's tortoises?
<AlanBell> yes!
<christel> awesome! :D
<christel> i appear to have gained a postman
 * christel goes investigate
<christel> pfft! it wasnt even something exciting for me, it was something for the church :(
<dwatkins> how dare they use you as their delivery service
<AlanBell> did you let the postman go again?
<christel> i told him i would pray for him
 * christel nods
<christel> he also brought david's birth certificate back from the passport people!
<christel> with some luck the passport will also magically appear soon
<christel> i like my morning postman better, he's quite hot
<christel> the afternoon one is like 80 and grumpy :(
<Flashtek> you get 2 posts ?
<Flashtek> we're lucky to get one
<JamesTait> What Flashtek said!?!
<christel> yes!
<christel> <- special, clearly ;)
<Flashtek> clearly
<JamesTait> I thought Royal Mail stopped doing two posts years ago!
<Flashtek> not to the 'special' people...
<christel> i dunno why i have two posts tbh
<Flashtek> christel = special case
<JamesTait> Special Delivery?
<christel> postman pat :D
<Flashtek> time to take the dogs for a walk, and to get some bread at the only shop within 2.5 miles (also happens to be sub post office)
<daubers> Is it me or does this http://daltoncaldwell.com/an-audacious-proposal not actually say what they're thing they're building does?
<daubers> s/they're thing/the thing
<JamesTait> I should probably do lunch.
<JamesTait> Daaaaaahling.
<popey> daubers, https://join.app.net/ does doesn't it?
<daubers> 1682 words in that article, of which 28 hint at what it might be
<daubers> popey: No?
<daubers> "We're building a real-time social service where users and developers come first, not advertisers." <- But what does that actually mean? THey're re-implimenting identi.ca or diaspora?
<daubers> The post office? That's a social service isn't it?
<gord> it means you have to pay to use it
<daubers> gord: use what? I don't know what it does!
<gord> its a social platform, it doesn't do anything
<daubers> So's the post office! And that might get my post somewhere
<gord> its a fairly interesting idea, you just build a platform, which might as well just be referred to as a database. developers build apps and i guess you pay for the apps
<daubers> So it's facebook without the features and for Â£?
<gord> i assume they would have some features
<gord> so its facebook without the ads and for Â£
<daubers> maybe with features, but we don't know what features or if there will be any?
<daubers> So why should I give them money?
<gord> well it sounds like its a little early for them to be calling out features
<daubers> So why should I give them money if I don't know what I'll actually ger?
<gord> you are new to thise croud funding lark huh ;)
<gord> crowd*
<daubers> The majority of crowdfunding things I've seen actually have a visible working product at the end that is quite clearly define
<daubers> d
<daubers> this is a hand wavery "thing" with added buzzwords
<AlanBell> which is why they are not using kickstarter
<gord> so is most crowd funding things
<daubers> and no-one can tell me what it'll actually do?
<gord> i crowdfunded the double fine adventure that litterally had nothing other than "adventure game" as the goal
<gord> if you want well defined features, wait until it gets made, let other people take the risk
<daubers> gord: You know that double fine adventure thing will be a poit and click adventure game
<daubers> Expectations set
<gord> i know his social platform will be a social platform you can develop apps on
<daubers> This app.net thing just appears to be "Give me money and we'll make this thing that is only defined by 1% of the words in my thing asking for money"
<daubers> So it's steam?
<daubers> Or Facebook?
<gord> no, steam is a shop that happens to have a social aspect. the apps are not social applications
<gord> its facebook, i don't know why you can't grasp this
<gord> its like facebook, the apps are similar, but its not tied into advertising as a revenue stream
<daubers> but if tey charge for the apps is that not a shop with a social aspect?
<gord> do you think an indoor climbing wall that sells gear is a shop with a climbing wall?
<daubers> If they charge me to use the wall, then effectivley yes
<diplo> I don't 'get' them either daubers so just ignore :)
 * daubers doesn't understand :(
<daubers> I also question the logic in this "I think the takeaway here is that the services provided by SourceForge/Github are too important to its users to be ad-supported" If they where paid for services, I don't think they'd be as big as they are and hence wouldn't be as important as they are?
<daubers> And surely this is a strawman based on a fallacy "I would gladly pay for a service that treats me better."?
<irenie> #fossbox
<davmor2> christel: I'm amazed that nobody replied to this <christel> <- special, clearly ;) with very "SPECIAL"  it just seemed so obvious :D
<ali1234> daubers: github *is* a paid service. that's his point
 * davmor2 is concerned that JamesTait is calling an IRC Daaahling
<ali1234> daubers: and what he's building is pretty well defined - it's a copy of twitter that has a business model beyond "IPO then sell user data to the highest bidder"
<czajkowski> irenie: hi there
<czajkowski> irenie: if you want to join there you need to /j fossbox
<JamesTait> davmor2: No need to worry, sweetie. ;)
<christel> davmor2: PFFT
<brobostigon> rain.
<christel> rain indeed!
<JamesTait> brobostigon! Now look, you made it rain!
<diplo> It must *MUST* get sunny for next weekend plz k thnx
<brobostigon> :(
<mungojerry> anyone know what the face value of football olympic tickets are for wembley?
<JamesTait> brobostigon: See if you can do it the other way.  Say "glorious sunshine".
<brobostigon> JamesTait: lol
<JamesTait> mungojerry: It varies.
<diplo> brobostigon: !!!!!! It JUST started RAINING!!
<diplo> :(
<diplo> Keep the r word quiet :)
<diplo> Maybe it'll go away
<JamesTait> mungojerry: I didn't look at football, but for hockey there are four tiers (A-D).  The tickets get progressively more expensive the closer to the final you get.  Tier D was Â£20 for the early stages and IIRC Â£45 for the final.
<JamesTait> mungojerry: http://www.tickets.london2012.com/browse?form=search&tab=oly&sport=8213&event=&venue=17&fromDate=&toDate=&morning=1&afternoon=1&evening=1&show_available_events=1
<mungojerry> got offered tickets in manchester for free, but too far.
<mungojerry> have been offered tickets for wembley semi but unsure whether to go
<christel> go!
<JamesTait> Once in a lifetime.
<christel> what JamesTait said!
<mungojerry> wifey is v unwell wiv morning sickness atm (all day long every day), but she has allowed it
<christel> :)
<christel> SUN THERE IS SUN
 * christel does a little dance
<mungojerry> it's a quite bit sunny, as my boy child says
<davmor2> christel: yes it's available from your newsagents daily
<christel> mungojerry: :D
<christel> davmor2: :P
<bigcalm> The sun is trying to get through here
<christel> mungojerry: how far along is she? :)
<mungojerry> only 7 or 8 weeks :(
<mungojerry> it's a long slog as sickness whenever you move + a toddler = bad
<christel> i can imagine!
<mungojerry> hoping it will stick as the last baby didn't :(
<mungojerry> but she never got as far as morn sick stage last time
<christel> i am sorry to hear that -- i hope this one does stick indeed
<mungojerry> thanks
<mungojerry> times like this i wanna take a year off work and look after la famille
<christel> aww :)
<christel> how many kids do you have? just the one + the little bean? :)
<mungojerry> how's this for an ultimate troll comment i just saw in the telegraph comments section: "Sport is for undertaking, not for watching. The only excuse for 'buying a seat' at the Olympics is geriatric decrepitude, senescence, or physical disability. Have pity for all those that go and surrender to commercialism by paying to watch others undertake sports, rather than practice it themselves."
<bigcalm> Oh my
<christel> hehe
<christel> see, i find that those of my friends who are most "into" watching sports are those who are most "into" playing sports!
<bigcalm> I tend to watch that which I enjoy to do
<mungojerry> it's a classic troll since it always elicits a response
<christel> bigcalm: yes, we all know what you enjoy watching.
<christel> :P
<bigcalm> christel: :D
<AlanBell> bigcalm: next time you pop round I will get the beach volleyball set out
<bigcalm> AlanBell: haha :D
<bigcalm> Haven't get watched any of the games
<TheOpenSourcerer> lolworthy: http://www.metro.us/newyork/sports/article/1148979--what-if-every-olympic-sport-was-photographed-like-beach-volleyball
<jpds> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.zug.com/live/89905/The-NBC-Olympic-Idiocy-Endurance-Challenge.html
<christel> AlanBell: the mental images :o
<bigcalm> christel: don't you want to watch me play the game?
<christel> i er, no :(
<bigcalm> :O
<christel> haha
<christel> i am just not sure your hairy legs and bum would look good in this kinda outfit: http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01556/Russia_s_Anastasia_1556665a.jpg
 * bigcalm tuts
<bigcalm> But likely true
<christel> otoh there's a lot to be said for comedy value
<christel> so perhaps
<christel> on an entirely different note, i am BORED
<mungojerry> "You canât bring more than 100ml
<mungojerry> of water and other liquids" into an olympic venue - for real?
<christel> haha really?
<diplo> Same as most Concert venues now
<mungojerry> maybe i'll freeze it first
<diplo> Want you to buy it, they use terrorism as an excuse i think but yeah they will chuck it away
<mungojerry> 70,000 people buying food is not practical
<mungojerry> Â£7 a burger *ahem*
<bigcalm> More reasons as to why I'm happy I'm not anywhere near the mess down south
<mungojerry> surely medical reasons mean you can bring water > 100ml
<davmor2> mungojerry: No, they'll expect you to buy it
<AlanBell> you can take an empty bottle in and fill it at one of several taps . . . along with the other 70,000 people
<mungojerry> apparently free water is provided to refill but they haven';t planned it very well
<mungojerry> i will take 400ml and spread it among the other guys. other blokes don't tend to bring water
<JamesTait> Properly raining now. :(
<shauno> and here was me wishing the airports would get over that one sometime soon
<mungojerry> they would charge for that at the 'lympics
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKTUAESacQM :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: what about it?
<bigcalm> I'm listening to dubstep
<christel> is it KAPSLAP?
<bigcalm> christel: http://soundcloud.com/dubstep-4/sets/dubstep-dubstep-dubstep/
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's what the into reminded me off :)
<bigcalm> I just did a search on soundcloud for dubstep
<christel> ooh
 * bigcalm zaps his brain with some wub love
<davmor2> bigcalm: and then there is a bit further along that reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOXw1xz-c8w
<christel> bigcalm: i am listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYMj1vxsehY this very moment, which is an oldie but goodie!
<nja> testing
<bigcalm> Drums!
<nja> oh good it works
<christel> hullu nja :)
<christel> i mean, hullu @nja!
<nja> Hi christel
<bigcalm> christel: this is perfect <3
 * christel rolls her eyes
<christel> what did you expect? i am perfection personified.
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Modest too
<christel> very ;)
<christel> what should i do tonight?
<Pendulum> christel is always modest, didn't you know?
<christel> AlanBell sucks at finishing work so we shan't go to oxford to play with jussi
<christel> what should i do insteaaad
<Pendulum> :(
<christel> oooh hello PRETTY GIRL
<christel> :D
<jussi> christel: !!!!!!!!!!
 * Dave2 imagines someone saying "oooh hello" in a normal voice then yelling "PRETTY GIRL" at the top of it
<jussi> I shall have to do bad things to you
<christel> haha
<christel> blame him! i was so up for it! :P
<christel> that sounds so wrong
<Pendulum> christel: have a drink in celebration that I've survived a year post-surgery ;) (since I can't drink)
<christel> Pendulum: WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO
<christel> only the one drink? :D
<Pendulum> haha
<christel> or one per day ? :D
<Pendulum> You can have as many drinks you want, although I think you may not want to do one for every day
<christel> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRftXCiqfQ8 <3
<christel> haha
<christel> i can do SMALL drinks?
<christel> mini shots!
<Pendulum> (technically, this is the anniversary for my 2nd surgery, yesterday was the anniversary for the 1st)
<Pendulum> haha
<bigcalm> christel: I do <3 me some Bassnectar :)
<christel> ooh that explains why i woke up with a hangover
<Dave2> Two anniversaries in quick succession!
<bigcalm> Pendulum: yay :)
<christel> bigcalm: http://youtu.be/3Y-C9uT4aGQ
<davmor2> christel, bigcalm: this is the one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y81upFRHQ1U&feature=fvst or maybe this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4eav7dFvc8
<christel> not dubstep but interesting!
<bigcalm> christel: slow down :P
<christel> aww am i going too fast for you? ;)
<christel> davmor2: <3 the prodigy
<christel> bigcalm: http://youtu.be/Vsy1URDYK88
<bigcalm> christel: that is indeed not dubstep :P
<bigcalm> More?!
 * bigcalm scrambles to keep up
<gord> if it is possible to dance to something, it is not dubstep
<christel> bigcalm: oh oh oh oh
<christel> http://soundcloud.com/prototyperaptor/prototyperaptor-jurassic
<bigcalm> christel: don't know if I've told you about this before or not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-3z3DNUGiE
<bigcalm> I like it for the video as much as the music
<christel> http://youtu.be/531-jK91KhY
 * christel swaps
<christel> bigcalm: ooh i like
<bigcalm> \o/
 * bigcalm starts on your track
<bigcalm> Is very nice
<christel> :)
<bigcalm> Shame about the high compression used
<bigcalm> Very lossy :S
<christel> i need to find someone who does stuff ala kapslap -- as i find his tunes very very sexy
<bigcalm> christel: have you tried the solid steel pod casts?
<nja> Help!
<nja> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1030452/comments/12
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1030452 in linux (Ubuntu) "Mouse goes invisible upon activating any element." [Medium,Triaged]
<christel> i have not, i am assuming you are recommending that i do?!
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> http://soundcloud.com/ninja-tune/sets/solid-steel-radio-shows/
<christel> woop
<bigcalm> I wrote a wee PHP script to leech all of the MP3s from that set so that I could listen away from the computer
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Here we go: http://www.myrant.net/2011/07/19/downloading-soundcloud-playlists/
<christel> Pendulum: OK! celebratory shots it is!
<Pendulum> christel: have fun with those :P
<christel> (of water, honest)
<mungojerry> gold and silver in canoe slalom, yayt
<christel> bigcalm: tis very mellow so far
<christel> (nice though)
<Pendulum> I like Solid Steel. It used to be good to have on while working.
<bigcalm> christel: there are over 100 tracks in that play list and it's always being added to. The styles vary from DJ to DJ
<christel> mmm
 * bigcalm tries to find one of his fave.
<jussi> AlanBell: you fail :Ã
<christel> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ2rz9CV9J8&feature=related <3
<bigcalm> christel: if you have to time for it, http://soundcloud.com/ninja-tune/solid-steel-radio-show-07-10-1 - watch the video as it's quite fun :D
<bigcalm> Yay, manga
<bigcalm> Hehe, Bocky instead of Pocky
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> My chromium tabs are full of music
<christel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=u3Op-DGc_ww is also quite cute
<christel> the freenode volunteers have recently taken to referring to me as overlordess.. i have come to realise that i like this
<bigcalm> Sorry, don't really like those sorts of sped up lyrics :(
<christel> awww
<christel> i think they are cute!
<Pendulum> christel: it took them this long?
<christel> Pendulum: yus, they used to be much more formal ;)
<davmor2> christel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMnukY8qbxU
 * christel clickses davmor2 
<christel> ooo
<christel> i think i like it
<christel> oh i definitely do
<christel> davmor2++
<n1md4> Azelphur: 8800 in the post yet? :D
<davmor2> christel: in that case http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp8NmI8kbgY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY2OFztWiuY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtpDG7tAD4E and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_JZdMxgNHo you might like too
<christel> and because of the name of davmor's choon i have now hopped over to something Very Different (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7yyvuAFifg)
<christel> ooh moar :D
<davmor2> christel: and if you're after chill look up the orb little fluffy clouds
<christel> \o/
<mungojerry> davmor2, i also have the blue room 80 min version
<mungojerry> i'm listening to lali puna atm
<mungojerry> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz-Swdawt9g
<christel> bigcalm: ok, bored again now ;d
<bigcalm> Heh
<christel> :D
<davmor2> christel: Oh god you mean I have to find you moar
<christel> yessir pretty please with sugar on top
<davmor2> christel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syiIGRsyvI&feature=related
 * christel clicksies
<christel> ooh the start of this i like
<christel> bigcalm: oh man do you want to hear a really weird super old song
 * christel just came across LOL choons
<bigcalm> christel: shoot
<davmor2> christel: here's an oldie but it's a damn good tune http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXw47qb4U0
<christel> bigcalm: http://repogirl.net/DJ%20Flipside%20-%20Christel%27s%20Song.mp3
<davmor2> christel: you might like this as a bit of a change http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuTVKO0RScI
<davmor2> christel: this is a current favourite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTvgj2LWjMk&feature=related
 * bigcalm shakes his head at his latest photo
<christel> bigcalm: are you listening to MY song? :D
<bigcalm> christel: I is
<bigcalm> Very enjoyable
<christel> bigcalm: he later did http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhr7BEeol3w -- which is just not as cool as its well, not inspired by me! :(
<christel> "my song" is a tad old mind.. i must have been.. 16-17 at the time :)
<bigcalm> Aww
<christel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXo7-r1-K00 you might like some of his suff actually
<christel> oh he only has a teeny bit on youtube, shucks
<davmor2> christel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpmX4qG1kQg floor filler still :)
<christel> http://soundcloud.com/alexanderodden oh there we go bigcalm :D
<bigcalm> Off to a good start
<bigcalm> Drumstep?!
<christel> :D
<bigcalm> Different
<christel> hehe
<christel> of course he is different.. he was my first ever boyfriend ;)
<bigcalm> Possibly the best of both worlds
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> "You have been unsubscribed from Gocompare.com. This change may take up to five working days to be fully applied." - 5 days? You are doing it _WRONG_
<christel> haha
<christel> bigcalm: ooh i found another old one, which is almost as Happy Happy as The Riddle! http://repogirl.net/Pulsedriver%20-%20The%20Whistle%20Song%20%28Club%20Mix%29.mp3
 * bigcalm queues it up
<bigcalm> Happy clappy!
<christel> :D
<christel> man that song just makes me want to daaaance :D
<ikonia> long shot, but does anyone have a name/contact number for anyone in Lenovo UK business sales, the number I've got has not picked up for 3 days now (auto message says unavailable, puts you on hold for 25 minutes, drops calls, repeat)
<Pendulum> christel: so dance :P
 * christel ponders giving ikonia her number since she's in a chatty mood
<christel> :>
<christel> Pendulum: \o/
<ikonia> christel: chatting is always fun, however I'm not sure you can supply my business with Lenovo laptops
<christel> i can pretend to
<christel> we could like, yanno... roleplay(!)
<ikonia> well, that is further than I've got in 3 days
 * christel looks shifty
<ikonia> pretending to order laptops would be better than another failure
<christel> (sorry, i am SO bored!)
<ikonia> join the club
<christel> i am about to watch nixie pixel's dark side of geek video
 * popey hugs his lenovo laptop
<christel> popey: any chance i could sell your laptop to ikonia ? :D
<popey> not a chance
<popey> you'd have to prise it from my cold dead hands
<christel> :(
<ikonia> popey: which one do you have ?
<bigcalm> I might be getting my boss' X301
 * bigcalm ponders upgrading his laptop bag to something a little more stylish
<bigcalm> If I'm to be on a course in London for 4 days, got to be stylish...
<popey> i have an x220 ikonia
<ikonia> popey: I'm trying to order a X230 and a T430s for evalution
<popey> nice
<ikonia> just terminated my dell business account after their product range is crap
<popey> 230 is the 220 with crappy keyboard isnt it?
<popey> and ivy bridge?
<ikonia> and it's time for a hardware fresh
<ikonia> popey: well, a few more bells and whistles
<popey> like?
<ikonia> popey: but it does have the "crappy" keyboard, which actually seems just as good from my short experience
<ikonia> popey: updated wifi setup, current generation ivy bridge, current IPS screen,
<ikonia> popey: just a slight generation update
<popey> I've noticed a few people have wifi issues with broadcom on the x220
<popey> i have the centrino one
<ikonia> popey: it's intel on the 230
<ikonia> 4 options
<ikonia> however I have now failed to purchase either of my test models for 3 days now
<popey> i bought mine direct from lenovo
<ikonia> well, I can do that, but before I invest I want to find out what business deals they can offer
<ikonia> I'm not going to open a business account to find out they do nothing
<ikonia> plus I'm not going to buy two "test" laptops at Â£1500 each to then find out their business accounts suck so I don't end up stocking from lenovo
<ikonia> although they have me over a table, as Dells business accounts may be good and do good discount, but their product is now poor
<livingdaylight> ikonia, the vostros no good?
<ikonia> which ones are the vostros ?
<livingdaylight> Dell business range
<ikonia> just looking
<ikonia> I doubt it as I went through the range
<livingdaylight> So, you know the vostros?
<popey> the problem i have now is that i love having the nipple on my laptop.. nobody else seems to do them, only lenovo
<ikonia> livingdaylight: yes, they are the ones, they are "average" and quite reasonable bang for buck, but lack availability and a big chunk of the range has been killed
<ikonia> livingdaylight: only the 15'' and greater seem to be available.
<ikonia> popey: dell used to not sure if their current models do
<livingdaylight> my gf has an older model which has withstood the test of time. the newer ones look even better
<livingdaylight> was never a fan of Dells back then, but vostros had a more durable chassis and sleeker look even back then
<ikonia> livingdaylight: my dells have taken a real beating and survied apart from the XPS, so no complaints there, they are just lacking core things for me to re-invest
<livingdaylight> and reasonably priced, as you say.
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick handy
<ikonia> livingdaylight: the new models have massive issues, for high end business users
<popey> lists models that have them
<livingdaylight> ikonia, gotcha
<popey> my last laptop at previous job was a dell latitude, pretty nice
<livingdaylight> ikonia, beats spending 1500 on a mac ;)
<ikonia> popey: I've got some latitudes here and they have been rock solid, but it's upgrade hardware refresh time
<ikonia> livingdaylight: I'm not sure the lenovo's are coming in at Â£1500-ish
<popey> yeah, only issues I'd had were windows bsod's :(
<livingdaylight> oh, yea, lenovo's like charging big cash
<ikonia> livingdaylight: I'd consider the mac platform if it wasn't too much of a headache for day to day maintainence for not using mac os
<ikonia> livingdaylight: I don't mind paying for quality and life span
<ikonia> these have to last 5 years as the Dells have easy done, so it's not a bad investment
<ikonia> the lenovo's should
<popey> I'm annoyed that my x220 already has a crack in it
<ikonia> that's dissapointing
<livingdaylight> well, I had a lenovo R60e that basically died a premature death. They're generally good, no doubt, but all have built-in obsolescence, imo.
<popey> because the pci express slot has nothing to stop it flexing
<ikonia> popey: do you use it as a laptop (without external screen) a lot ?
<popey> it's below the Fn/Ctrl keys and next to the touchpad
<popey> yes
<popey> less so when at home
<ikonia> popey: how do you find the 12.5 screen with the limited resolution
<popey> no problem
<popey> but I do enjoy 2x1080p screens on my desk
<ikonia> popey: mine would be used mostly as a laptop with no external screen, hence evulating the x230 and the T430s
<popey> yeah, mine is on the arm of the sofa a lot
<ikonia> I'm more concerned for sit at a desk working
<popey> and I spent most of this week away from home, using laptop as a laptop daily
<mungojerry> the inverted nipple on my dell is nice
<popey> i value suspend/resume and battery life
 * Flashtek manages to crash the Ubuntu installer...
<popey> more than I used to
<popey> Flashtek, file a bug :)
<ikonia> Hmmm I torn, I guess I need to speak to Lenovo to find out their deals before even putting this on the tabl
<Flashtek> what's the bug track url ?
<ikonia> table
<bigcalm> !bugs
<lubotu3> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<bigcalm> Humm
<Flashtek> anyone tried not putting in a username at install time...?
<popey> ikonia, they mostly sell to business via resellers don't they?
<popey> Flashtek, hah, nice, not tried that
<popey> does it not complain?
<Flashtek> no, but the installer dies !!
<popey> ouch
<Flashtek> yup
<popey> ok, from the live environment run "ubuntu-bug ubiquity"
<popey> and follow the prompts
<ikonia> popey: they do have a business "team" though so I was hoping they could point me in the right direction
<popey> ahh
<popey> Flashtek, lemme know the bug number once filed please
<Flashtek> roger
<popey> or just subscribe me to it, my lp username is popey
<popey> or both
<popey> :)
<popey> tea time!
<Flashtek> oh wait.. this is Kubuntu....
<Flashtek> does that make much difference ?
<livingdaylight> ikonia, i7 laptop for 600? http://tinyurl.com/clfzypl
<ikonia> livingdaylight: refrub
<ikonia> livingdaylight: look at the processor speed too, it's an old i7
<livingdaylight> ikonia, true, still: looks like a nice laptop, 1gb dedicated nvidia graphics card - I like 3years warranty on nit
<livingdaylight> shouldn't I be able to right-click over search bar and add a search engine that way in FF ?
<livingdaylight> address bar is already populated
<ikonia> livingdaylight: I doubt that warrenty is worth much
<livingdaylight> ikonia, well, I'm stuck with my Acer for, hopefully, the foreseeable future. gl with your search - you know what you're looking for, which is already half the battle :)
<ikonia> well, that's mental, the lenovo site seems to have some sort of random pricing policy
<ikonia> I've spec'd out the same product approx 6 times as I kept flicking back and fourth between external suppliers and buying direct from the lenovo website, and for some reason it's just offered me a Â£380 discount ???
<ikonia> check the spec and it's exactly the same as the other one
<Flashtek> 1032316
<Flashtek> popey: I have added you (I think)
<bigcalm> bug 1032316
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1032316 could not be found
<bigcalm> Is it private?
<Flashtek> erm... perhaps..
<czajkowski> not showing up
<czajkowski> do you have the right number ?
<Flashtek> bug 1032306
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1032306 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed at who are you" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032306
<Flashtek> lol
<Flashtek> 06, not 16
<czajkowski> there we go
<czajkowski> :)
 * Flashtek facepalms
<czajkowski> easy mistake
<Flashtek> it should really go "WTF ???"
<JamesTait> 'night all!
 * JamesTait waves
<davmor2> Flashtek: let me guess you add your details hit continue and it locks up?
<Flashtek> nope, dont put in details...
<davmor2> Flashtek: yeah clicking continue is the key, does the machine have a webcam by any chance?
<Flashtek> no
<davmor2> Flashtek: what happens if you add a name?
<jacobw> hi
<Flashtek> everything else works as expected
<Flashtek> and i know that not putting in a name is dumb, but it should allow for that.. after all, this installer is being used by Welsh people.
<nja> Hiya
<Flashtek> yo
<nja> :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: do you use skype
<davmor2> czajkowski: I do when I have to why?
<czajkowski> it keeps dying every signle time
<czajkowski> I ring anyone and it hangs
<czajkowski> davmor2: go to report it and says the package isnt installed t report it
<davmor2> czajkowski: did you install from USC or from their site?
<popey> czajkowski, run skype from a terminal and see what it says there?
<czajkowski> davmor2: apt -get install
<czajkowski> popey: aye
<popey> call me if you like :)
<czajkowski> in coming
<ali1234> sounds familiar
<ali1234> i always get that "not installed" thing when skype crashes
<DJones> Heh, just got sent a link to some dopey workmen installing bollards http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/561188_478920592118467_730274734_n.jpg
<czajkowski> who http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1125717/
<czajkowski> wont crash when I need it to crash
<Flashtek> kill -9 ?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: is sheldon running 32 bit or 64 bit?
<czajkowski> 64
<AlanBell> oh I get the same messages running from a terminal
<popey> bigcalm, does that notification just keep coming up as soon as you press OK?
<davmor2> czajkowski, AlanBell: those are just general GTK warnings you'll see them in a load of apps
<czajkowski> AlanBell: davmor2 wonder is it if you use video it hangs
<davmor2> AlanBell: the interesting one I see is the ATK warning, I have a feeling that, that might mean that A11y won't work with it
<czajkowski> doesnt make sense
 * bigcalm waddles in
<bigcalm> popey: yes
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
<bigcalm> popey: if I hold the power button down, it shows the screen to "slide to power off". But I can't do that because of the notification box
<AlanBell> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> popey: so the device is completely unusable now
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I am informed that you have a message
<popey> interesting
<popey> can you tap the message once you have held power down?>
<AlanBell> bigcalm: are you reliably informed of this, or were you informed by someone of dubious reliability
<bigcalm> Oops, forgotten to feed the neighbour's cat. Best fix that
<bigcalm> AlanBell: completely dubious I'd say
<bigcalm> AlanBell: so it's likely to be authentic
<popey> bigcalm, otherwise you can just force shutdown
<popey> hold down the power and home buttons for ~10 seconds
<bigcalm> popey: how do I force the shutdown?
<bigcalm> Ok
<bigcalm> Ta
<popey> also
<popey> how can you have managed to go 3 weeks without backing up? :)
<bigcalm> I don't use it enough to need to plug it in for charging
<popey> heh
<popey> is it yours?
<popey> well, you can force a backup now and than
<popey> *then
 * Flashtek burps
<bigcalm> I can? Ok
 * bigcalm does that
<AlanBell> http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/24/asus-transformer-pad-infinity-uk-availability/ wonder if that will run Ubuntu
<bigcalm> Wondering if I shouldn't have had that ale before starting work on moving svn repos to git
<directhex> you can never have too much ale
<bigcalm> directhex: I've yet to disprove that statement :)
<Flashtek> popey: http://dnac.co.uk/?q=17&a=223
<popey> haha Flashtek
<WelshDragon> Anyone know if Valve have contacted nouveau at all?
<WelshDragon> Or have they only been working with nvidia/amd/intel directly?
<popey> why would they contact nouveau?
<popey> 3d barely works on nouveau
<directhex> valve have stated that they are only supporting vendor drivers, for now
<directhex> which means amd-provided, nvidia-provided or intel-provided
<ahayzen> popey, 3d is working fine for me on nouveau :)
<WelshDragon> 3d on nouveau works fairly good here. It just doesn't perform quite as well.
<WelshDragon> But, thanks directhex :)
<ahayzen> i was hit by that Nvidia driver bug around 12.04 release and switched to nouveau .... my desktop now actual feels faster :)
<directhex> WelshDragon, problem isn't performance, it's features. nouveau can't render most of what modern games use
<DJones> AlanBell: You can run Ubuntu on a transformer prime via vnc http://androlinux.com/android-ubuntu-development/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-rooted-transformer-prime/
<Azelphur> does anyone else have missing entries in the unity sidebar?
<Azelphur> like I have totem playing a video, it's not in the list
<ahayzen> Azelphur, GIMP was missing for me earlier
<Azelphur> yea, it's driving me nuts :(
<Azelphur> if I minimise anything, I can never get back to it again lol
<ahayzen> not good :(
<DJones> AlanBell: Another link says you can have a native ubuntu install as well http://askubuntu.com/questions/38866/is-it-possible-to-install-ubuntu-on-the-asus-transformer
<popey> Azelphur, yup, can happen
<popey> Azelphur, often a bamf bug
<Azelphur> popey, fun, any workarounds for it?
<Azelphur> everything shows up in wmctrl -l
<popey> apt-cache policy bamfdaemon
<popey> what you got?
<popey> Azelphur, ?
<Azelphur> sorry
<Azelphur> 0.2.118-0ubuntu0.2
<Azelphur> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1125870/
<popey> Azelphur, I'd recommend filing a bug
<popey> against bamfdaemon
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> we recently fixed some bugs related to this
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> I'm stuck on a netbook atm, rebuilding my pc, water cooling loop, etc \o/
<zleap> nice
 * christel noms chinese
<bigcalm> :O
 * bigcalm coverts christel's chinese
<popey> Early night!
<popey> nn all
<christel> i picked up my herman from AlanBells whilst gareth retrieved yummy chinese food from bon east! now i nom :D
<christel> nn popey <3
<bigcalm> Late night noms!
<christel> mmm
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo_B3CZXTIY
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: doesn't quite mix with uupc. I'll listen later :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "Late Night Munchies" :)
<christel> omnom!
<bigcalm> christel: whatcha got?
<christel> i have scallops with ginger and spring onions!
<christel> i think
<bigcalm> Cool
<bigcalm> Heh
<christel> well, that is what i asked for, so i assume that is what i've got -- however, i also have crispy duck and a sneaky suspicion that i should not have had a starter
<christel> because i dont think i can eat anything else
<christel> i always forget that i cant eat a full meal anymore :)
<dogmatic69> o/
<christel> dogmatic69 \o/
<christel> i must be turning into bigcalm, i am working at 10:30
<christel> :o
<bigcalm> I am turning into myself
<christel> i say!
<christel> that is quite a neat trick
<dogmatic69> anyone know why a pc would "lose" its ip config periodically
<dogmatic69> almost every day my NAS disconnects and I have to reboot it
<n1md4> hello.  possible to install ubuntu on software raid via the installer?  I've created md0 and 1 manually, but the partioner reads them as blocks to further partition :\
<directhex> n1md4, the "alternative" installer on cdimage.ubuntu.com uses debian's text-mode installer, which supports exotic partition arrangements including md raid
<n1md4> thanks, directhex.  I'm actually going for mythbuntu, so that wouldnt' be an option..  I've sorted it now though.  In the console I made fs on mdX and then kicked the installer, and it seemed to work fine with that :)
<bigcalm> "svn propedit svn:ignore" Is there a way of dumping to a file the content of svn:ignore rather than having to copy it out of an editor?
<dogmatic69>  > file.txt ?
<bigcalm> propedit puts you into an editor
<bigcalm> proplist lists what svn: items there are
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-03
<diplo> aMorning all
<christel> morning diplo :)
<jussi> Hello all! Morrning diplo.
<christel> morning jussi :)
<jussi> christel: Im not talking to you. I was 10 mins away and you didnt come see me. :P
<christel> haha i would if i'd known before you were like "so i am in farnborough but i am leaving in an hour" :P
<jussi> well we only ended up in farnborough because we were just driving around and the road took us there...
<christel> hehe
<christel> i am so tired :(
<jussi> but then that we went and visited a guy from the mer community, and he both scared and thrilled me... (he has a [very fast] Jaguar...)
<jussi> then the boxter wasnt so fun anymore...
<christel> haha
<christel> i saw the car pics, you looked like you were enjoying it ;)
<jussi> yeah, when I was in control...
<diplo> :P
<christel> hehe
<christel> boys and their toys.. ;)
<jacobw> morning
<jacobw> i'm finding the controversy over jonah lehrer's misquoting of bob dylan confusing
<jacobw> i don't care that he made this particular thing up, i still like his work
<christel> hehe
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<christel> GOOD MORNING BIGCLAM
<bigcalm> christel: sorry, no hangover today :P
<bigcalm> christel: good morning my dear :)
<christel> how are you lovelychops? :D
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> In need of a weekend. Lucky there is one starting in a few hours
<bigcalm> How are you deary?
<christel> i am in a slightly devilish mood but very very well :D
<christel> thyself? :D
<bigcalm> I thought that was your normal state
<bigcalm> You've already asked that :P
<christel> oh
<christel> SEE i just pay no attention!
<christel> i was enjoying some most delectable thoughts
<christel> and pondering trying AlanBell for breakfast
<christel> errrr
<christel> AlanBell's eggs
<bigcalm> It's an easy mistake to make. I've often confused AlanBell for his chickens...
<christel> i'm not sure he'd fit in my frying pan ;)
<AlanBell> I might have some eggs too
<AlanBell> will try not to cook myself
<christel> good morning breakfast!
<christel> ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<christel> i am unsure whether to fry, omelette, scramble or boil
<christel> hrm hrm hrm
<DJones> poached eggs
<christel> ooh yes
<christel> that sounds scrumptious actually
<bigcalm> Poached for me please
<christel> morning TheOpenSourcerer \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> yo christel et al.
 * TheOpenSourcerer got overtaken on Shortheath road (residential) again this morning. because I stick to the 30mph speed limit. :-(
<diplo> Complain to your local police station, I expect they could do with the revenue ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why can't these idiots just get up a few minutes earlier? Then they wouldn't be in such a rush.
<christel> haha
<AlanBell> my mum does a constant 50mph on every road
<diplo> tbh a few years ago I used to be like that
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<diplo> But I'm sloooow now
<bigcalm> AlanBell: _every_ road?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: motorways and everything
<TheOpenSourcerer> I find it much less stressful having plenty of time to get somewhere, and it also amuses me to watch people getting more and more excitable in my rear view mirror ;-)
<bigcalm> diplo: as you get older, you come the realise the cost of fuel, tyres, sanity. There little to actually rush for :)
<diplo> yeah, that and now also the safety of my boys as well
<TheOpenSourcerer> Having kids made me slow down on residential roads. I tend to not hold back on Motorways or dual carriageways etc.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: economical on the motorways, not so healthy in a 20 zone
<diplo> A lot less fiery as well, I was known to be a bit of a road rage and actually get out of the car to punch people in my early days
<czajkowski> bigcalm: you do soound like a grumpy old 50 year old at times you know that right :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer would probably have been punched by diplo had we crossed roads then ;-)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I can't avoid it, so I shall embrace it. My eyebrows are slowly turning white :D
<christel> morning czajkowski <3
<diplo> I rarely do more than 75/80 on motorways.. I drive to Plymouth a lot as my grans is theree and I used to drive down there at anywhere between 80-95 and one day I decided to see what it was like driving at 50/60 all the way
<diplo> Took me 20 mins longer and saving me 1/4 a tank of fuel
<TheOpenSourcerer> My nasal hair is now growing faster than that on my head.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks for that lovely image
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<czajkowski> christel: ello elo;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: for you. Anything my dear :-)
<christel> hellooo JamesTait \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did we all see Adobe have released a nice new FOSS Font :-D
 * JamesTait hugs christel 
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: why yes!
 * christel hugs JamesTait 
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/08/adobe-releases-source-sans-pro-a-new-open-source-font/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Looks nice
<czajkowski> it's all about fonts and branding you know :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed. I like the idea they will be using it for their open source products. Wonder where they got that idea?
<popey> they have open source products?
<bigcalm> There is a need for a font family other than Ubuntu?
<bigcalm> Morning popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are making them now: http://brackets.io/
<AlanBell> not massive glyph coverage in it
<TheOpenSourcerer> yet...
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are working on monospaced and greek & cyrillic
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's opensource - release early, release often :-D
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, nasal combover?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh nice idea oimon - although pulling them out with pliers has a certain masculinity that appeals to me ;-)
<dwatkins> it's one way to initiate crying
<diplo> I knew I was starting to age a bit when I had hair coming out on my back
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> Why does pulling nasal hair cause one's eyes to water?
<dwatkins> perhaps you're causing the tear-ducts to move
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not for me - unless it is a full "Clump"...
<bigcalm> This wins as the most OT convo :)
<diplo> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> clump is rather a good word.
 * dwatkins winces at the thought
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: is that because you've had practice?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Almost certainly bigcalm
<popey> http://via.me/-3nnc98u#!/-3nmtvv0
<bigcalm> popey: that's Space Boss' ride?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> is it big enough?
<bigcalm> Does it blend?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hah
<oimon> bigcalm, but bum hairs are the same..longest hairs in the body, since they are connected to your eyeballs
<jussi> oimon: I thought toe hairs had that title...
<bigcalm> oimon: not something I've ever plucked to find out
<dwatkins> "He's not a nosehair plucker, he's a nosehair plucker's son..."
<oimon> i have a rogue bristly hair on the smooth underside of my wrist, keeps on reapparearing
<jussi> its funny, in finnish we have different words for hair on your head and hair on your body...
<TheOpenSourcerer> And how many words for snow jussi?
<JamesTait> popey: That's a quite beautiful piece of machinery.
<jussi> one is just "hair" the other translates to "fur"
<dwatkins> jussi: what if the wrong kind of hair grows somewhere, e.g. thicker hair on the back which should be under the arms?
<dwatkins> I guess that's still not on the head.
<jussi> dwatkins: its all "fur"
<jussi> :D
<dwatkins> that makes me quite furry...
<AlanBell> popey: that is a very fancy bus
<oimon> traffic and trains around the olympics are super quiet
<oimon> it's been a good week
<dwatkins> via.me doesn't work if I block everything ghostery blocks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did you all see Valve's news about game performance on Linux :-) http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/08/valves-optimizations-make-linux-port-of-l4d2-outperform-windows-version/
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<christel> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning christel :)
<christel> why are you all sat there pulling hairs? :o
<oimon> practising for when it's an olympic sport
<christel> aah makes se.. no it doesnt
<christel> :P
<brobostigon> well, i am getting some hair loss.
<oimon> still only have a couple of greys in my late 30s
<oimon> it's not always an advantage
<oimon> people think i'm a young whippersnapper who doesn't have 20yrs experience of using unix
<christel> i have no idea if i have any grey hairs yet, i don't dare to not colour my hair in case i do
<oimon> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> Age is no indicator for greyness. Just ask AlanBell ;-)
<christel> ah but isnt he approaching 60? :x
 * christel hides behind TheOpenSourcerer 
<popey> he is approaching 60!
<popey> very slowly, from behind
 * TheOpenSourcerer ducks
<christel> popey: haha <3
<jussi> I just caught popey's second line and immediately thought of Gary_....
 * AlanBell is indeed approaching 60
<bigcalm> Naughty :)
<AlanBell> will get there in 23 years or so
<bigcalm> Puts it into perspective. 27 years to go for some of us :S
<jussi> bigcalm: yes, that is a word I would use about Gary_ :P
<bigcalm> Hah
<TheOpenSourcerer> or just 13 years for some of us :-(
<jussi> you old farts... I have 30 years to go...
<diplo> Anyone know if Dustin Kirkland hangs about in any channels?
<diplo> 24 for me :)
<jussi> diplo: given he is in US, unlikely to be awakje atm
<diplo> yeah, sorry meant for later
<diplo> Just tinkering with some of his code and fancied a chat
<jussi> yeah, he is around, in #ubuntu-devel iirc - nick also iirc is kirkland
<jussi> a really nice guy
<diplo> yeah followed him for years and blog, not a Canonical guy anymore though is he, went off to work on eCrypt
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: awww
<TheOpenSourcerer> christel what?
<christel> 13 years! (i am slow)
<bigcalm> Twice as close as we are
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh - well yeah. I don't worry about it. I still "feel" like a big kid inside and probably always will :-D Much to wife's constant annoyance.
<diplo> thanks jussi anyhoo
<bigcalm> More than
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: for some reason that does not surprise me at all :P
<jussi> diplo: he is present in #ubuntu-devel atm, but I guess not active
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why do the Jocks have a day off on moday?
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\Monday
<diplo> I've joined to remind myself later, suppose I really ought to work now
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: dunno, but they don't get the one at the end of the month that we get
<bigcalm> Morning (early?) davmor2
<ali1234> is SATA hotswappable?
<AlanBell> ali1234: yes
<ali1234> cool
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yeap I'm gonna knock off a bit earlier I'm feeling a bit bluh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh my - another chuck of possibly interesting leads appear in our inbox...
<AlanBell> so they do
<davmor2> morning all
<oimon> u1 on my android never uploads my photos anymore, always seems to be logged out whenever i run it
<oimon> :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> And they keep on coming...
<diplo> oimon: Only issue I get is "Failed to upload"
<diplo> occasionally
<diplo> I wish I could trace back a bit :/
<oimon> i don't think it's trying anymore
<oimon> wonder if it happens after a version update
<oimon> also, my android foced updates on me the other day, even apps i chose to update manually, it suddenly decided to run all updates
<oimon> that means i got the new g+ app :(
<diplo> Guessing you don't like
<oimon> seems to be very picture-centric, even if the picture is irrelevant
<oimon> and text overlays pics
<oimon> not clean like it was before
<diplo> Quite like it now tbh
<ali1234> you need to get android 4
<ali1234> it has all different apps and they are much better
<oimon> not sure it will be out for my htc
<oimon> still v early days for my touchpad too
<gord> i'll prolly get android 4 when everyone else has android 8. slowpoke.jpg
<oimon> so far i haven't seen super compelling reason to want JB
<gord> its better, but its not Â£400 better
<popey> i thought performance was the big thing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> 4.1
<diplo> oimon: What v you on for U One on android ?
<oimon> performance will be a big thing in cyanogen's version
<oimon> since they get the linaro massive improvements
<gord> there are nice things like being able to block notifications and stuff
<oimon> diplo, 1.2.2
<gord> but googles new standards for the play store might help stop airpush stuff anyway
<diplo> yeah same... odd then it's not working
<diplo> mine only uploads photos on wifi
<diplo> and only once a day i think
<oimon> ok, it's working now i've logged in
<oimon> but not retrospectively
<oimon> maybe it's either when i turn phone off, or the version updated, but i had to login first
<Flashtek> morning all
<oimon> ah, it is working retrospectively now
<Flashtek> popey: you seen my bug perchance ?
<oimon> another annoying thing is that google play insists on installing google books, 9MB
<popey> Flashtek, nope, bug number?
<Flashtek> bug 1032306
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1032306 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed at who are you" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032306
<oimon> have to remove it manually until play updates the next time, and screws my phone
<popey> thanks
<popey> Flashtek, doesn't crash here
<popey> Flashtek, it wont let me get past the "Who are you?" screen without putting a name in
<Flashtek> popey: lol
<Flashtek> popey: might be Kubuntu specific then I guess ??
<popey> oh, kubuntu, didnt notice that
 * popey gets an iso
<oimon> what phone are they using in the latest ubuntu android video?
<oimon> and dock
<popey> which video?
<popey> i think they're using a nexus
<oimon> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/ubuntu-for-android-demoed-on-video-at-fisl
<oimon> having this would make me buy a HD telly. get home and pop the phone into the dock in font of telly
<Flashtek> brb, brekky awaits
<AlanBell> same one as before with the landscape dock I think oimon
<popey> no that video is still the motorola atrix 2
<oimon> the first time it was the atrix i though
<popey> you can see motorola along the top of the name of the phone
<diplo> oimon: Read the comments ( first one is translated ) they say it's the Atrix2 in the translation
<oimon> just saw that, cheers. tend to avoid the comments this early in the day ;D
<ali1234> it's always been the atrix2...
<ali1234> and accessing android features within the guest OS has always been possible on those phones
<oimon> i don't have sound on this pc, but i can tell he's talking balearic/spanish/portgu
<oimon> "But the telephone companies that are working with us to bring this pre-installed on phones are targeting the next generation that is quad-core with 1.5GB and 2GB."
<diplo> yeah portugese, I couldn't last the whole video :P
<oimon> didn't atrix have a laptop style device you could plug the phone into too?
<oimon> wonder if it's wishful thinking to think that in the future we could have hot desks at work and just plug our mobiles in like this
<AlanBell> I think the ubuntu for android thing is quite plausible as a product
<oimon> i for one am holding out for it
<AlanBell> it gives the manufacturers some kind of justification for putting quad core chips in phones
<ali1234> it's completely plausible
<ali1234> they already sell it with their own toy distro on it
<ali1234> which was based on ubuntu
<ali1234> putting a properly supported distro on it can only be an improvement
<popey> its got some nice integration too
<popey> like accessing your phone contacts in thunderbird
<ali1234> sure.
<ali1234> if they are making a second one, the first one must have done ok
<ali1234> even without any of that
<popey> AlanBell, who has my usb3 caddy?
<AlanBell> popey: I do
<popey> cool
<oimon> ali1234, my impression is thht they are working with vendors to release this as a thing, not just a homebrew feature
<ali1234> oimon: of course
<popey> there's no money in it if it's homebrew
<ali1234> putting a real official ubuntu instead of a half-cut self rolled distro is a win for everyone
<diplo> Any samba/wins people here? Issue being
<oimon> i've never seen an atrixx in the UK. everyone is htc, apple and samsng   my circles
<diplo> We have a customer who we vpn into
<gord> on the topic, it would be pretty stupid of me to expose a samba server to the internet because i'm too lazy to setup a vpn right?
<diplo> A machine(s) are configured i think to look at our ip range incorrectly and are filling /var/log/messages on ,lots of our servers with
<ali1234> gord: yes
<ali1234> setting up a vpn isn't even that hard
<oimon> gord, when i used samba actively, there were vulneriabilites aplenty
<diplo> process_name_reqyest nmbd Error should be sent to a WINS Server
<gord> i don't think you are grasping just how lazy i want to be
<diplo> Want to know how to trace back to what is causing this ?
<ali1234> it's easier than setting up samba, that's for sure
<gord> maybe i could just run a ps3mediaserver and expose that
<diplo> I'm guessing dns ?
<gord> i already have samba setup
<ali1234> just buy a qnap nas, they have vpn built in
<oimon> gord, for a windows client to access?
<gord> for anything i have to access
<diplo> What are you wanting to do with it gord ?
<diplo> access what specifically
<gord> i have ooodles of bandwidth now, so i want to stream my ripped dvd collection from whereever i am in the world instead of copying onto my laptop all the time
<oimon> gord, use vlc?
<popey> I'd just put apache on an odd port and put a .htaccess in the root
<popey> and stream over http
<diplo> I stream my music via a web app
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jessica Ennis just broke the 100m hurdle WR in the heptathlon. :-)
<oimon> gord, you are giving the impression that you leave the house
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, in the heat?
<diplo> http://videojs.com/
<diplo> http://labs.official.fm/codecs/mp3/
<oimon> is it still ramadan btw?
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> anyone run JB and run 12.04 , can you connect your phone and move files to it ??
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Dunno if a heat or the final - Wouldn't have thought there would be elimination rounds in the Heptathlon somehow.
<oimon> i thin kit's heats atm
<gord> oimon: often for weeks at a time!
<diplo> gord: I've actually used this one http://jplayer.org/
<diplo> And I am writing my own web page for my server at home for it
<popey> two weeks in copenhagen coming up!
<christel> <3 copenhagen
<oimon> my sister lives there for 4 years, and i haven't visited yet :S
<christel> shocking!
<Dave2> Butter chicken at India Palace. Have it.
<christel> denmark is loovely
<oimon> mainly due to having baby and not liking planes
<czajkowski> oimon: :o shocking
<gord> i don't think i'll do two weeks this time ;)
<gord> maybe can skip uds entirely
<czajkowski> gord: booo but then I wont see you
<czajkowski> :(
<oimon> now mrs oimon is preg again i don't think we will go for another 2 years at least
<czajkowski> one less box of tea bags I suppose
<czajkowski> oimon: you know babies can go on planes you know :)
<christel> babies LOVE planes
 * christel nods
<gord> yes, all that loud crying that makes my journey miserable is just a sign of how much they enjoy it
<oimon> it's not fair to travellers to take a baby < 1yr on a plane
<diplo> I still haven' taken mine
<czajkowski> gord: not all do, but yeah some do and it's mostly the 2-4 year old that will not sit still or kick chairs that I have issues with
 * AlanBell pictures babies enjoying flying while gord crys miserably
<gord> was sitting next to a small child on a plane once, every time i woke up he seemed to have grown until there was a full grown adult man next to me. i think the family was just messing with me
<oimon> besides, it's usually a 4hr wait at the aorport, and not exactly conducive to stressfree living
<popey> wat
<czajkowski> gord: lol
<christel> oimon: nah small babies are easiest, you just feed them and they are most happy
<oimon> our family are in agreement anyway :)
<christel> gord: haha
 * TheOpenSourcerer recalls flying back from St Lucia in Virgin Upper Class with our 1.5yr old who cried all the way. We were NOT Mr & Mrs popular on that flight ;-)
<oimon> especially as long haul flights expose babies to huge amounts of radiation...
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: aye long haul is damn hard on people
<czajkowski> oimon: eh ?says who
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not in Upper Class it isn't (normally)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Used to travel all the time.
<oimon> in my flying days i took a flight from new york full of american schoolgirl/cheerleader types
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gold VIP with BA and always turned left when entering the plane. No longer though :-(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not now I have to pay for it myself.
<oimon> A typical dose rate is 0.5 mrem per hour of flight. so a 12hr flight is the same as a chest xray
<christel> AlanBell: you need sell more stuff so that TheOpenSourcerer can fly in style!
<oimon> so that level of radation is harmful for little children
<TheOpenSourcerer> What a great idea christel
<christel> ;)
<ikonia> sell a child ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> See that MS looks like it has to drop the "Metro" name... Now calling it Windows 8 UI Style or something
<ikonia> why has it had to drop the name?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Trademark infringement I guess.
<AlanBell> someone else got there first and it isn't generic enough apparently
<ikonia> oh dear
<ikonia> you'd thing this sort of thing would be checked before release.
<TheOpenSourcerer> they obviously didn't consider Germany.
<ikonia> Metro is quite a big name in the USA though with parts of the transport system
<oimon> they should call it patio instead
<AlanBell> yes, it probably is generic in America
<TheOpenSourcerer> Decking!
<TheOpenSourcerer> (tm)
<oimon> it was actually european partners who complained
<TheOpenSourcerer> I Got there first folks
<directhex> oimon, assuming all forms of radiation react the same way to all things they come into contact with, your numbers work. humans aren't affected equally by cosmic rays and x-rays
<TheOpenSourcerer> Parquet!
<TheOpenSourcerer> (C)
<ali1234> they should call it sqrz (all lower case)
<ali1234> or even better sq.rz
<oimon> 100 hours of flying in a year gives you approximately 50% more total radiation exposure than those who never fly. The biggest study says
<oimon> you have nothing to fear. The FAA suggest that your increased rate of getting cancer is 0.005% for each year that you fly for 90 hours.
<oimon> maybe they prefer children not to fly because it gives them longer to develop diseases
<oimon> http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/252712.html
<oimon> does anyone else get google books force-installed on their android?
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: nope. Don't think so.
<bigcalm> Can you have a git repo with some svn externals in it? It sounds nuts, but I don't want to keep a load of externals in my own project repo
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: yes. It is installed. Says I can uninstall it though.
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, yeah, until next time google market updates
<oimon> then it reinstalls
<oimon> swallows 9mb of precious memory and stops my phone working, since it's below the 15mb limit
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Yes - it didn't really remove itself. Just flagged for update.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't use it but not really bothered tbh.
<oimon> more of an issue if you have lack of sapce
<oimon> even running apps on SD card takes internal memory for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - I have an SIII
<oimon> big space?
<oimon> not sure where all my spce goes
<TheOpenSourcerer> 16GB I think.
<diplo> oimon: Same issue, clear browser cache clears up some
<diplo> There are certain logs you can clear if you are rooted?
<oimon> diplo, yeah, i had to find a bookmark backup program
<oimon> because clear cache didn't clear it but remove data did
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah I have 11.35GB free.
<diplo> From when I read up, it's to do with /System logs
<oimon> diplo, would be interested to hear more :D
<oimon> htc desire?
<diplo> It was my colleagues desire yeah
<diplo> I've got the Wildfire, I just don't run as many apps anymore.. made my life easier
<diplo> Will see if i can find the page
<oimon> ta
<oimon> i only just got the bluetooth working for my car , after 18 months. there was an issue with my install of CM
<oimon> never found the right page to fix it until the other day
<diplo> So yes it was the System Data dir
<diplo> App called DisUsage which will display that
<oimon> no K ?
<diplo> heh, yeah K
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Sorry!
<oimon> :D
<oimon> found a load of spanish apps instead
<oimon> have it now
<diplo> You can only delete from System Data if you have root, but if you have cm i guess you have root
<oimon> system data has 123mb free space
 * directhex moos
<oimon> my phone think it has only 15mb left
<oimon> am i doing something wrong?
<popey> Flashtek, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/111805873/ubiquity.png
<ali1234> popey: backing up a hard drive on dd, and my machine is freezing badly
<popey> :(
<ali1234> so it's not just USB
<oimon> ali1234, i get that when updating apps
<popey> oh interesting
<oimon> kernel update the other day froze my pc for ages
<diplo> oimon: Just going to try it myself, I think it wants to keep a certain amount of space
<ali1234> this is SATA
<diplo> But.. what you are trying to find is large log files
<oimon> diplo, but i have 123mb free?
<oimon> in system
<oimon> if i search app storage, i am told that i have 147mb capacity, 15mb  free
<oimon> wonder if i can expand this partition
<diplo> Don't think this is correct app maybe
<oimon> diplo, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.thedarken.sdm&hl=en ?
<diplo> Looks good, given it a try ?
<oimon> just trying it
<oimon> tablets/phones don't really lend themselves to tidy filesystems
<oimon> should prob take a backup before doing this...
<diplo> Id say so :P
<directhex> webos managed to be LVM-based, so resizing wasn't hell
<oimon> but nevertheless..
<oimon> no, i'm gonna backup
<oimon> :D
<oimon> directhex, i heard openwebos won't be available for the touchpad !
<directhex> oimon, apparently. something about hp's dodgy kernels being full of non-upstreamed vendor nonsense, and openwebos needing kernel 3.1+ or somesuch
<oimon> complete fail
<directhex> indeed
<oimon> one of those things they had to make happen or else
<oimon> lose the entire communiuty
<oimon> saying that, i haven't booted into webos since the day i installed android
<oimon> can i encrpyt stuff stored on u1?
<popey> yes
<popey> i have encrypted stuff in my u1 folder
<oimon> what's the best way?
<TheOpenSourcerer> keepass FTW!
<oimon> e.g. i have a phone backup folder which is large with many subfolders
<Flashtek> popey: yes, that's the screen :-)
<popey> i best way to do what?
<popey> i keep a gpg encrypted file in my u1, i use vim to edit it, and use gnupg.vim to automagically decrypt and re-encrypt it when I save it
<popey> oimon, compress it, gpg encrypt it, put it in your u1 folder
<oimon> oh, "you don't have the right permissions to creaet an archive in the dest folder"
<oimon> bug i wonder?
<oimon> ah, the location was set to none by default
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: how you getting on with your s3 and does it have an sd card slot too?
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Love the phone. Yes it has a slot, not that I have used it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Obviously it is a uSD
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: mine only gets used for photos so that is not an issue
<oimon> cheers popes i will do that
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is several orders of magnitude better in many ways compared to my earlier phone (Dell Streak). Battery Life, Weight, Screen, Camera, Speed blah blah blah.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I'm sensing and like smile about to appear :)
<popey> hehe dell streak
<ali1234> y u no like dell streak?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It was great when it first appeared.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But that was 2 1/3 years ago (eons in mobile)
<ali1234> true
<TheOpenSourcerer> And Dell rather fscked up on a few things like support and updates etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then they decided to drop the whole Android thing.
<oimon> dell aren't very good at the mobile type device space yet
<TheOpenSourcerer> Was their only phone too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It did show rather.
<popey> time for an ubuntu dell phone :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<oimon> arrgh stupid gui
<davmor2> popey: the Ubuntell phone :D
<popey> DellBuntu Phone
<oimon> removing files on sd card requires emptying the rubbish bin, always forget that
<directhex> symlink the trash dir to /dev/null!
<jacobw> i don't like that behaviour
<jacobw> imo, the trash should be in the home directory of the user running nautilus and only for trash from that filesystem, on other files systems the 'move to trash' option should be replaced by the 'delete' option
<jacobw> i think unity on a phone would look like windows phone :|
<jacobw> android's interface is like WIMP with pointer replaced with dragger
<directhex> unity on a phone wouldn't look anything like windows phone?
<directhex> it'd look like webos rotated 90 degrees :)
<Pendulum> hiya
<christel> hiya pretty <3
<Pendulum> christel: how're you today?
<christel> i am very well thank you! how are you? :)
<Pendulum> I am good :)
<christel> \o/
<christel> i have come to realise that it is very nearly christmas, this makes me very excited :D
<Pendulum> :)
 * Pendulum hugs christel
 * christel hugs Pendulum 
<czajkowski> hmm I think I need to rewatch all of last seasons Dr. Who
<czajkowski> christel: no no no months away from christmas!
<czajkowski> dont be bringing that closer
<Pendulum> czajkowski: too much to do?
<czajkowski> so_much_to_do
<czajkowski> I do know I'm going back to Ireland though
<czajkowski> this bit I've worked out
<czajkowski> possibly on the 22nd
<czajkowski> Pendulum: http://yfrog.com/oelw1iaj  join me in my giggles
<christel> czajkowski: pfft only 4! :D
<christel> time to start getting ready :D:D:D
<czajkowski> christel: hush up you
<christel> haha
<Dave2> gah but it's only just been christmas
<Dave2> I'll need to think of what to buy for people and stuff :(
<christel> Dave2: tis aaages ago
<christel> Dave2: Pretty Things \o/
<Dave2> I don't know what things are pretty :(
<christel> aw
<czajkowski> oh shopping for people I find is very easy
<Dave2> I find it incredibly difficult unless I've been explicitly told what people want
<czajkowski> nope I get them things I know they would love but dont buy themselves
<czajkowski> so much fun
<czajkowski> problem is to not buy too much :)
<Dave2> I have no idea what people would love \o/
<Dave2> I think I end up relying on suggestions from my mum
<christel> you are so useless
<christel> i should teach you how to shop
<christel> it is very easy
<christel> and oh so fun!
<Dave2> It's hard!
<Dave2> So hard.
<czajkowski> Dave2: wish lists on amazon is also handy
<Dave2> I normally end up going to shops and then leaving with less of an idea than I had before.
<Dave2> czajkowski: I don't think anyone I have to buy for has one of them
<christel> oh
<christel> is it because you're so short you cant really see anything unless it is displayed on the floor?
<Dave2> :(
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: don't buy anything for them, when they ask, tell them they should have made an amazon wishlist
<MartijnVdS> Problem: Solved!
<christel> fear not my small friend i will pray for you and wish for the fleas of a thousand camels to infest the armpits of all your enemies!
<czajkowski> Dave2: http://www.thorntons.co.uk/pages/category/category.asp?ctgry=Hampers%20And%20Gift%20Boxes&cookie_test=1  worked wonders last year for people
<christel> Pendulum: i can see you thinking it, no i have not been drinking :o
<christel> <3 thorntons
<Dave2> MartijnVdS: hah
<Pendulum> christel: did you ever do your drinking last night? ;)
<Dave2> czajkowski: WE'RE SORRY BUT WE CAN'T FIND THAT PAGE
<Dave2> Although the URL is fairly descriptive
<Dave2> So I can make a guess
<christel> Pendulum: i had a couple of pints of TEA in your honour
<Pendulum> christel: that works ;)
<Dave2> Is that TEA as in the beer, or tea as in tea?
<czajkowski> Dave2: http://www.thorntons.co.uk/c/Hampers%20And%20Gift%20Boxes_Chocolate%20And%20Toffee%20Hampers.html
<christel> Dave2: as in the beer
<czajkowski> bettter than the evil ICE tea!
<czajkowski> WRONG!
<dwatkins> I discovered today that Lift is the German version of Lilt, not iced tea as I'd thought.
<bigcalm> That would be a rude awakening for your tastebuds
<czajkowski> Lilt is nice
<czajkowski> ice tea is awful
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<bigcalm> Ice'd tea can be wonderfully refreshing (if done correctly)
<directhex> lilt is the devil
<directhex> allergenic evilness
<bigcalm> Rather like Irn Bru. Ice cold it's ok. Any warmer and it's disgusting
<directhex> or was in the early 90's
<directhex> irn bru is also allergenic evil ;)
<directhex> drink fewer orange drinks!
<czajkowski> it's addictive
<dwatkins> bigcalm: a friend suggested an interesting cold remedy - warm up beer on the hob and down it, you'll sleep really well, although it tastes awful.
<czajkowski> I think we're down to 6 packs of 8
<directhex> note: orange flavoured drinks are generally yellow. and the orange colour which causes problems is called sunset yellow
<bigcalm> :S
<czajkowski> we had about 12 at one point recently
<czajkowski> ocadoo deliver is rather handy :)
<dwatkins> directhex: yeah, I'm allergic to Sunset Yellow (hyperactive)
<czajkowski> lol
<dwatkins> czajkowski: I tried to sign-up, but they don't deliver in Edinburgh :(
<czajkowski> I wouldnt deliver there either :p
<czajkowski> far too north
<directhex> these days i have mostly been drinking fentiman's cherrytree cola
<dwatkins> haha, yeah it is a long way from London....
<dwatkins> (assuming you're in London etc.)
<dwatkins> I like Edinburgh, it doesn't have annoying traffic and the view from the office is fantastic :)
<czajkowski> I am in London
<christel> irn bru \o/
<dwatkins> I think Edinburgh's about 450 miles north of London; it has pretty much the same weather, though.
<czajkowski> wish pinttrest had an android app
<czajkowski> viewing on phone is annoying
<dwatkins> "We're working on a dedicated Android app," the Pinterest website says. "We know lots of folks are eager to see one, so when we feel we're in the final stages of its development, we'll be sure to share more information."
<christel> czajkowski: when i come back from viking land i shall venture into london and do something lovely with you <3
<directhex> pinterest is reddit for handbags, right?
<christel> pinterest is <3
<diplo> http://ubuntuone.com/1jPOSDL5MOAo4kWVJAbR6a
 * davmor2 has just opened a bottle of fentimans ginger beer one of the best
<czajkowski> dwatkins: dont be  so dismissive
<czajkowski> bah
<diplo> lunch \o/
<czajkowski> directhex: dont be so dismissive!
<christel> i have no idea how i parsed fentimans as feminist
<christel> but i did
<czajkowski> christel: sounds like a fantastic plan I have an opening in my diary for early september
<christel> i dont think i have ever tried ginger beer :o
<christel> czajkowski: woop! what would you like to do on our Magical Date? :D
<bigcalm> Is there anything happening latest September?
<christel> bigcalm: YES! you are going down south \o/
<christel> (we must Arrange Some Sort of Amazingness for when you're down -- someone should tell the social secretary)
<bigcalm> christel: what should happen do you think?
<christel> bigcalm: BEER
<christel> :D
<christel> or water polo
<bigcalm> Beer is good :D
<bigcalm> LOL, what?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Christel - Try Crabbies. It's rather lovely. Esp. the "Black" version @ 6% http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2011/08/halewood-launches-crabbies-black/
<christel> bigcalm: it is my new fascination, how do the horses not drown?
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: oooh  thankee <3
<directhex> i don't like most fentiman's stuff, but the cherrytre is great
<bigcalm> christel: I have always wondered that myself
<diplo> oimon: How was SD Miad?
<diplo> Maid* anygood ?
<oimon> diplo, just back from lunch
<oimon> ran it while in the pub, regained over 10MB
<oimon> :D
<diplo> Better than a kick in the rear.. still only 10mb
 * TheOpenSourcerer has to get up *very* early tomorrow to get to London E20 for 07:30am
<oimon> still wonder why there's 125 mb free somehwere else that isn't used
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ouchies
<TheOpenSourcerer> Going to watch some Hockey
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: unless it's on ice, I wouldn't be getting up that early
<TheOpenSourcerer> Unless it get unseasonably cold I don't expect there to be ice.
<oimon> mens or wimmins?
<Pendulum> christel: I just saw a Norwegian woman run as part of the heptathlon. I thought of you ;)
<christel> \o/
<daubers> christel is in the heptathlon AND on IRC AT THE SAME TIME????????
<christel> MULTITASKING BABY MULTITASKING
<oimon> what gui tool do people use for encrypting files?
<oimon> i thought nautilus did it?
<popey> i use gpg on the cli
<diplo> You can get scripts to use via nautilus to encrypt / decrypt
<oimon> diplo, yeah thats what i had in mind, couldn't find it though
<Pendulum> daubers: it's mind controlled IRCing so she can IRC from anywhere ;)
<diplo> Some on gnome-look.org
<oimon> seahorse
<oimon> seahorse-nautilus to be precise
<DJones> I thought christel was a bot, online 24/7
<christel> why yes!
<bigcalm> I've run out of weak lemon drink due to popey quitting
<davmor2> christel: you pay a BABY to MULTITASK man you're harsh
<popey> that thing where you mis-click in the launcher and open nautilus, then realise "I didn't want that" and close the window only to find it closes the window underneath.. xchat
<popey> tthat
<bigcalm> Yay Unity ;)
<popey> nautilus bug :)
<bigcalm> Yay lunch time shower!
<davmor2> oimon: have you had a look for nautilus plugins
<popey> bug 781931
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 781931 in compiz (Ubuntu Precise) "New windows are moved to front but don't take focus" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781931
<popey> fixed yesterday
<oimon> davmor2, i installed seahorse-nautilus, but it doesn't seem to have aded an option to nautilus
<davmor2> popey: man that's an old bug it's still in 6 digits ;)
<davmor2> oimon: in precise or quantal?
<oimon> 12.04
<davmor2> oimon: and did you look to see if you need to enable it in nautilus?
<davmor2> oimon: some gnome apps do it by default some of them don't
<oimon> davmor2, can't seem to see any options in nautilus
<oimon> that would enable it
<oimon> also if i choose the compress otion, the password bit is greyed out, so maybe i'm missing a pacakge
<oimon> i think i'm running lubuntu so i might have something missing :S
<popey> never a truer word..
<oimon> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - just rang a lead and the bloke who answered sounded like someone from the "Royle family" - I failed to grok much of what he said... Scouser.
<christel> did he buy all the things?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have no idea. Couldn't really understand what he said.
<christel> haha
<christel> bless
<TheOpenSourcerer> He made John Bishop sound totally south.
<christel> haha
 * bigcalm returns clean
<bigcalm> Hayley went to uni. in Liverpool. When we went to see John Bishop on stage, Hayley started sounding rather scouse afterwards
<oimon> http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/draconian-wifi-police-stalk-olympic-games-20120803-23jdc.html
<oimon> lol
<oimon> the wifi police
<christel> bigcalm: i say!
<bigcalm> Rather
<christel> this amuses me
<christel> (scouse hayley that is)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> i had a weird phonecall just now
<christel> from someone i'd apparently given my business card to
<christel> only i cant remember ever meeting them
<christel> which makes me think i could have been drunk
<christel> and that i might have said something daft
 * TheOpenSourcerer finds both those assumptions hard to believe. </sarcasm>
<bigcalm> ;D
<christel> :P
<davmor2> christel: How dare you associate your name and the word drunk....oh wait sober I always get them the wrong way round :D
<christel> haha
<davmor2> christel: do you like Cafferies?
<christel> i like caffeeine?
<davmor2> christel: sorry I spelt it completely wrong http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/989571/
<christel> i shall looksie
<christel> i think i need new business cards, my inability to do Grown Up and Serious means that i now think people call because They Have The Completely Wrong End of The Stick
<christel> (http://repogirl.net/card.jpg)
<christel> (and my phone takes really shitty pictures)
<diplo> christel: That's your business card ?
<christel> yes
<christel> :)
<diplo> :D
<bigcalm> !ohmy | christel
<lubotu3> christel: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<diplo> It's great!
 * diplo spanks bigcalm 
<christel> the "young" is rapidly becoming a bit of a lie mind
<christel> :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> christel: I have no idea why that would give the wrong impression, especially if located in a London Phone Box for example :D
<christel> davmor2: haha but that is where i get *all* my business!
 * davmor2 now sees christel in a new light ala http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093727/
<diplo> bigcalm: Do you use microdata ?
<diplo> for your sites
<diplo> Trying to improves some of our customers SEO display in results
<bigcalm> diplo: I have no idea :) I do backend stuff these days
<bigcalm> What is micro data?
<bigcalm> Binary?
<diplo> Data that displays in google results displays
<diplo> You can get it to show better content by using microdata
<christel> davmor2: did you know i am on imdb? :D
<bigcalm> Nope, not looked at that
<diplo> So like using itemprop="price"
<diplo> Will display the price
<diplo> Me either, looks good..
 * diplo implements
<bigcalm> Let me know how it goes ;)
<christel> davmor2: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4592461/ i am so cool! (though no personal services involved :P)
<czajkowski> http://askubuntu.com/questions/30334/what-application-indicators-are-available  my new favourite page, how many indicators is too many :)
<christel> diplo: http://repogirl.net/rar%20012.JPG slightly betterer image :)
<diplo> I really like that christel
<diplo> Make them yourself ?
<diplo> As in your own design, or get external company ?
<davmor2> christel: You're just not safe in public are you ;)
<christel> diplo: nah, a pretty young thing who works for one of my clients (a creative agency) did them :)
<christel> davmor2: haha how so? :P
<diplo> I keep debating making some for anyone who wants private work, not for a business perspective perse
<davmor2> christel: your cards and then producer of death
<christel> oh yes, i liked doing death
<christel> did you see the trailer?
<christel> we're actually having our north american premiere *tomorrow*
<christel> at the feel good film festival in hollywood
<christel> very exciting
<christel> our european/first premiere type thing was as the opening movie at the london sci-fi festival this may
<christel> :D
<christel> diplo: ooh what ahem personal services do you offer? </davmor2>
<diplo> Anything and everything :)
<christel> :)
<davmor2> christel: See just not safe :P
<christel> hrmph! :P
 * christel tickles davmor2 with a czajkowski 
 * davmor2 doesn't believe that christel would upset czajkowski that much so stands by mocking
<davmor2> christel: pretty good trailer
 * christel bows
<christel> we even used *gasp* free software (a little bit)
<christel> (well magic lantern firmware)
<diplo> like the webdesign of the page on the card christel
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Free advertising for Apache :P
<christel> oh yes, i need to actually chat up TheOpenSourcerer's friend for some website magic
 * christel emails him Now
<christel> thank you diplo, i needed that reminder <3
<diplo> I was just being nosey
<christel> hehe
<christel> AlanBell: bigcalm says that you need to arrange a happy hour In The South sometime between September 20th and 23rd as he will be Down In Our Neck Of The Woods
 * bigcalm nods
<bigcalm> We need to beer
<christel> mmmmbeer.
<christel> oooh it will sort of be my anniversary around then
<christel> (september 17th is my One Year Since Surgery Date)
<bigcalm> Cool!
<christel> scary, it has gone very fast
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone say beer?
<bigcalm> More reason to celebrate :D
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: yay! lets go for beer NOW
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am gaggin for it.
<bigcalm> Hehe
<christel> i am totally up for beer!
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am still rather busy following up on leads. Will probably drop in to my local on the way home for a few early ones. Seeing as I have to get up at stupid-oclock tomorrow.
<christel> ah yes you're off to london!
<christel> :D
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: stupid-oclock is that before or after the whats the 0 stand for OMG! it's early?
<bigcalm> which is why you shouldn't get up before 11:11
<gord> nothing good happens if you get up at 11:11
<gord> or at least, thats what 10 series of the x-files taught me
<TheOpenSourcerer> I reckon about 04:30 should do it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And we have a rather heavy party to go to on Saturday eve. Then off to Frensham CC for a day of family fun playing cricket & getting plastered (weather dependent obviously).
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> gitlab doesn't apply markdown to the README of a project :(
<popey> patches welcome
<popey> I am sure
 * bigcalm knows diddly about ruby :D
<bigcalm> Right, server set-up details into a wiki page. This feels a little more productive ;)
<bigcalm> Work and personal gitlab servers now have similar subdomain names. Must remember to check I'm in the right one now and then
<jacobw> server set up details in puppet is more productive :D
 * jacobw isn't at that point yet either
<bigcalm> I just killed my personal gitlab :D
<bigcalm> No idea how to fix it :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: it's a red stone right?
<bigcalm> Eh?
<bigcalm> davmor2: what is a red stone?
<davmor2> bigcalm: a ruby
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Context is king!
<davmor2> that or it's slang for a curry
<bigcalm> Fixed it
<bigcalm> Don't just "git pull" and expect it to magically work
<TheOpenSourcerer> ping popey
<bigcalm> I suck at markdown :(
<popey> yo
<TheOpenSourcerer> TY - Farnborough station car park? OK to park at 05:00 on a saturday morning?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey - is it barrier or Pay & display?
<TheOpenSourcerer> i.e. manned.
<popey> no barrier
<TheOpenSourcerer> thanks. Think that will have to do. Was going to go to Wimbledon but the car parks don't open until too late.
<popey> when is this?
<popey> oh, tomorrow
<popey> farnborough is ringgo so you can pay online or on your phone with an app
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have to be at The Olympic park at 07:30am tomorrow...
<popey> nice
<TheOpenSourcerer> On Sat trains are per/hr so either 05:16 (loads of time) or 06:16 (very tight).
<TheOpenSourcerer> Presumably I can just stick a card in the Pay & Display machine to park? Looks like it is only Â£3 on Sat anyway.
<lazarus_> i looked in synaptic and it saying the wacom stuff is installed but its not working
<lazarus_> anyone got any ideas
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now it is defo beer o o-clock. Have a nice weekend every one. Thanks popey.
<bigcalm> Anybody know how I can have multiple lines of code appear correctly in markdown?
<bigcalm> Ah, that's how
<davmor2> bigcalm: like that
<bigcalm> davmor2: very helpful
<davmor2> bigcalm: I do my bit to help those in need :)
<mattt> woops
<mattt> haven't looked at this window all day
<mattt> despite being at my desk the entire day
<mattt> been a busy day :(
<christel> you hater you :(
<mattt> http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/haters-gonna-hate-7.jpg
<christel> hehe
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2jbCJXkpA song for haters
<bigcalm> popey: I've moved gitlab. to git.
<AlanBell> um, arguably a little nsfw in places
<bigcalm> It's 2 mins to non-work time
<bigcalm> 1 mintue
<christel> tsk tsk AlanBell ;)
<bigcalm> minute
<bigcalm> http://twitpic.com/af0ou5
<christel> AlanBell: oh i love it :D
<bigcalm> Oh that
<bigcalm> The splurg at the end makes it
<christel> :D
 * christel does a special It Is The Weekend Dance with bigcalm and AlanBell and Pendulum 
<bigcalm> \o/
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* *\o/* *\o/* *\o/* *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> did that work?
<MartijnVdS> (the channel is +c after all)
<Pendulum> :D
 * MartijnVdS loves his aliases :)
<christel> :D
<MartijnVdS> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
 * christel does a dance with MartijnVdS also
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* *\o/* *\o/*
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: if you were hoping for colour, there was none
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: :(
<christel> need moar colour
<MartijnVdS> but +c
<christel> WE could make that go away
<christel> but then AlanBell would ban me :(
<christel> probably
<bigcalm> Heh
<n1md4> 5
<n1md4> (ignore)
<MartijnVdS> christel: I can PM it in full colour 8-)
<bigcalm> Too late
<christel> :D
<christel> ik hou van je! <3
<MartijnVdS> Jeej Nederlands :)
<christel> hehe
<dwatkins> Ik spreek geen Nederlands.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: But.. wait.. uhrrr
<dwatkins> I'm watching dÃ¸d SnÃ¸, and I don't speak Norwegian either. Thankfully it has subtitles. It's interesting to hear how some words sound like German (which I do speak, as opposed to just cheating with Google Translate)...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Yeah I get that with Norwegian as well.. lots of Frisian-sounding words
<MartijnVdS> and bits of English
<dwatkins> I made a point of learning that Dutch phrase many years ago, just in case.
<MartijnVdS> (to my ears)
<dwatkins> Norwegian sounds like what I imagine people spoke in Chaucerian times.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: It'll confuse people though.. saying "I can't speak the language I'm speaking now"
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: this is obviously the way to actually go î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿ î¿\o/î¿
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: oooooooh!
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: true, I guess I have to make sure I say it with an awful accent ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Dutch people can spot English-speakers from a kilometer away.. and switch languages pre-emptively ;)
<dwatkins> I used to wind up my french teacher by speaking with a terrible accent, she knew I had a fairly good grasp of it.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ah, Brit-dar?
<MartijnVdS> l'accent terrible!
<dwatkins> wee
<dwatkins> Silver Plate.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: nah, "Not-Dutch-dar"
<dwatkins> I sometimes wonder if speaking a particular language from an early age makes a difference to the shape of the mouth.
<dwatkins> Perhaps it's more the way people look when they're about to say something.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: It's the Yamolritelikerkid
<christel> dwatkins: jeg snakker en hel drÃ¸ss med norsk!
<christel> -1
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: it's about phonemes.. if you haven't learned the phonemes for a language before a certain age, it'll be hearder to learn them later
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: this is why Poles who learn Dutch speak VERY accent-free Dutch (phonemes match very well)
<dwatkins> christel: Jeg snakker ikke noe norsk, men jeg synes det hÃ¸res kjempebra!
<christel> :D
<christel> jeg kan snakke norsk til deg nÃ¥r som helst ;)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: does hearing a language from an early age count?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I don't know, but I assume it helps
<dwatkins> I can't speak Dutch or Italian, Spanish nor any of the Nordic languages, but I've been hearing them all my life. I should probably try learning another language just to see.
<christel> yes! learn norwegian :D
<MartijnVdS> Learn Dutch! :)
<MartijnVdS> Leer Nederlands!
<christel> ik wil een bier?
<MartijnVdS> Een maar?
<christel> ja!
<christel> i only know a tiny bit of dutch, which is not very suitable for -uk i suspect
<MartijnVdS> Ah, the first bits you learn of a language :)
<christel> (neuken in the keuken op de tafel met een opblaasschaap?)
<MartijnVdS> on the kitchen table? Really?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<christel> definitely ;)
<MartijnVdS> http://wonderingsinthefourthdimension.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/is-officially-word.htmlhttp://wonderingsinthefourthdimension.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/is-officially-word.html
<MartijnVdS> ur
<MartijnVdS> http://wonderingsinthefourthdimension.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/is-officially-word.html
<MartijnVdS> just once :)
<christel> hehe
<christel> <3
<christel> dr who <3 <3 <3
 * christel does a little dance
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, did you see the new trailer?
<JamesTait> 'night all, have a great weekend, and try not to miss me too much over the next two weeks. :)
<JamesTait> (Although I may actually be around from time to time)
 * JamesTait waves
<MartijnVdS> \o JamesTait
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: have a nice 2 weeks :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: we'll send all the easy questions to your inbox ;)
 * JamesTait puts is fingers in his ears and redirects mail to /dev/null
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: !coc
<christel> JamesTait: have a fantastic holiday, i will miss you!
<christel> (i shall cry myself to sleep every night )
<MartijnVdS> aww
<MartijnVdS> \o/ new vlogbrothers video
<czajkowski> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
<czajkowski> hows folks
 * czajkowski has chinese and Criminal minds on, followed by some NCIS 
<czajkowski> yummy
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.png
<christel> i have come to the conclusion that ian thorpe sounds like lloyd grossman would do if he was australian
<MartijnVdS> christel: speaking of nbames
<MartijnVdS> christel: try pronouncing the name of the Dutch swimmer who won gold yesterday :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: "Ranomi Kromowidjojo"
<christel> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> even the Dutch commentators have problems with it :)
<christel> i bet!
<MartijnVdS> http://foksuk.nl/content/formfield_files/formcartoon_8901_e579ffcc486e43821cea98bbd56b9ef08a297552.gif
<christel> hahaha
<christel> i love dutch, i can read it :D
<christel> well.. i can pick up a dutch newspaper and understand like 80% or something
<christel> (where the missing 20% will be crucial of course...)
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<christel> speaking of dutch.. i was about to laze around but my favourite client in the entire world just emailed to say "shit, i forgot i needed this done by monday morning.. you can charge whatever urgency fee you fancy"
<christel> he is dutch
<christel> i <3 him
<MartijnVdS> Nice :)
 * MartijnVdS watches the BBC program about the Antikythera mechanism
<MartijnVdS> (I think it's still on iplayer)
<christel> ooh
<MartijnVdS> christel: there's one on Tetris as well (â¥ Tetris)
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: I'm not sure the American commentators even tried to be accurate. In fact, I think they tried to avoid saying the name at all so it was just "the dutch swimmer" quite a bit
<jacobw> evening
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: the Dutch commentators can pronounce the name but that comic makes fun of them trying :)
<MartijnVdS> \o jacobw
 * jacobw resolves to watch more olympics
 * Flashtek staples zleap to popey 
<zleap> hey
<popey> hmm?
<zleap> i exited xchat in error and i get stapled to popey
 * zleap tries to get Flashtek to respond
<Flashtek> :P
<zleap> ah
<diplo>  Evening all
<adddw> guys anyone know how I can fix this error? :(
<adddw> http://pastie.org/4385624
<ali1234> go back in time and stop yourself or whoever from deleting /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99update-notifier
<ali1234> or
<ali1234> just reinstall update-notifier and hope it replaces that file
<ali1234> actually that might not be the missing file at all
<ali1234> well, the alternative is /var/lib/update-notifier/ got deleted
<DJones> Interesting on twitter @RAtkinson1955 I can confirm, there will be one last episode of Blackadder, a reunion.
<MartijnVdS> is it him though
<DJones> Appears to be
<MartijnVdS> there's no blue star of approvedness
<Pendulum> It does look most likely to be real of the various "I'm Rowan Atkinson" twitter accounts
<MartijnVdS> true
<MartijnVdS> I wonder.. did they use this picture knowing what the hand sign means in the uK? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/tea-party-republicans-sketch-out-internet-policy
<Azelphur> Finally finished messing about with my PC, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/July/IMG_20120803_220207.jpg :D
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: .. for the week?
<Azelphur> probably.
<mattt> wtf is that thing
<Azelphur> a computer
<mattt> Azelphur: are you old enough to have a car?
<Azelphur> mattt: yep
<mattt> oh
<mattt> do you own this?
<mattt> http://nimg.sulekha.com/business/original700/west-texas-custom-car-show-chevrolet-monte-carlo-2010-5-24-16-30-27.jpg
<Azelphur> nope
<mattt> just checking :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<mattt> that comp is crazy cool looking
<Azelphur> ty :D
<diplo> Azelphur: Get the duster out man!
<Azelphur> haha
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-04
<Azelphur> If I wanna plug an american device in the UK do I just need something like this? http://bit.ly/Oxw7iV or do I need something special re voltage?
<Seeker`> depends on the voltage the device is rated for
<Azelphur> I see, so always check the voltage, it needs to do 240?
<Seeker`> pretty much
<Seeker`> if it is 110v then don't plug it in
<Azelphur> righto :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmcZIU8U8Nc
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: lol
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBMD485iG9g is good too :P
<soreau> Azelphur: Generally speaking, .us electrical standard is 120VAC
<soreau> Azelphur: The item you linked to has no 'specs' section or any indication it does any kind of electrical adaptation other than the physical plug
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbB-mICjkQM ?
<dwatkins> mornin
<christel> morning lovelies
<czajkowski> morning
 * czajkowski hugs christel 
<christel> hello lovely <3
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<MartijnVdS> morning!
<christel> hiya MartijnVdS \o/
 * MartijnVdS wonders how many more holes the upstairs (downstairs?) neighbor can drill before the building collapses
<christel> haha
<jacobw> guten morgen
<MartijnVdS> hoi jacobw
<jacobw> wie gehts?
<christel> ich bin eine waschmaschine!
<christel> er, i mean good morning jacobw :)
<MartijnVdS> christel: Oh, je hovercraft zit vol met paling?
<jacobw> das ist seltsam
<jacobw> good morning christel :)
<christel> jij bent een paling!
<christel> :o
<christel> ben? bent? i have no idea!
<MartijnVdS> jij bent = OK
 * christel hugs MartijnVdS and jacobw 
<christel> woop
<jacobw> :)
<christel> my dutch skills are clearly second to none :D
<christel> (ahem)
<jacobw> US has more medals than China now
<MartijnVdS> so.. less detectable dope?
<MartijnVdS> </cynic>
<christel> hahaha
<christel> <3
 * christel toodles off to the west country 
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * jacobw decides what to do today
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: "not much"? :)
 * jacobw decides what to do tomorrow instead
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey jacobw
<jacobw> how are you now?
<brobostigon> jacobw: on the mend, certainly with my eczema. my throat still feels pretty bad, and my nose is somewhat less runny. and you?
<Pendulum> morning
<brobostigon> morning Pendulum
<Pendulum> anyone up to anything exciting this weekend?
<jacobw> good :)
<jacobw> i'm glad your eczema, the weather must be difficult
<brobostigon> jacobw: it was worse, when it was hotter and more humid.
<brobostigon> jacobw: now that it is cooling, it is helping.
<brobostigon> arghhh, they have ditched click again, for sports. :(
<mattt> click?
<brobostigon> bbc click, the bbc's IT prog.
<brobostigon> normally broadcast on saturday 11:30am, bbc news 24.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: not permanently, I hope
<dwatkins> BBC Click: the Firefly of tech news...?
<brobostigon> the bbc even trweeted that click would be on at this time.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i hope not, either, yes.
<mattt> brobostigon: is it any good?
<mattt> usually tech shows on tv are a bit dull
<brobostigon> mattt: yes.
<mattt> afk, shopping :(
 * mattt weeps
<ali1234> click is not very good
<ali1234> the news is typically a two weeks old
<brobostigon> well, depends, some can be good, some less so.
<ali1234> and it's presented in the style of one of those late 90s internet shows
<ali1234> like "check out the cool websites we found this week" style
<brobostigon> thats 2 minutes, right at the end.
<ali1234> the whole show is presented in the same manner
<dwatkins> Yeah, the Guardian tech podcast is better than BBC Click!.
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxvzj/Click_04_08_2012/
<ali1234> yo can watch it online
<dwatkins> I just think it's good that the BBC is doing something in terms of tech news, even if it's not particularly good. Long gone are the days of Tomorrow's World etc., sadly.
<brobostigon> ali1234: yes, i know i can, it just annoys me, when they change things around, for things that are less than interesting.
<ali1234> 20 seconds in and i'm already rolling my eyes
<dwatkins> Perhaps they'll do a 21st century version of Micro Live when the Raspbery Pi becomes popular... ;)
<ali1234> dwatkins: that's basically what click is
<ali1234> except with less technical content
<dwatkins> yeah, that's the trouble, it's too simplified.
<dwatkins> I guess they have to pander to the less technical audience.
<dwatkins> We techies can go listen to network security podcasts if we feel like it, I suppose.
<ali1234> oh boy, a piece about "tech overload"
<ali1234> NO, I DON'T USE ANY OF THOSE WEBSITES
<ali1234> AARGHARGHAGR
<ali1234> *turns off click*
<dwatkins> She's addicted.
<brobostigon> ali1234: do you happen to enjoy amateur drama?
<ali1234> i don't think so
<dwatkins> It's exactly the same as it's been for years - people get addicted to gossip or money-off coupons. The difference is now it's possible to do it all in your pyjamas.
<brobostigon> ali1234: it was a joke, the way you said it, was dramatic.
<dwatkins> haha, they interviewed someone in thick-rimmed glasses
<dwatkins> sterotype #32767
<dwatkins> multitasking makes you terrible at everything.
<ali1234> someone needs to do a story about how everyone is using facebook and twitter and youtube and discovering that other people are jerks, and then blaming it on the internet, not realising that the internet was a much more easy going place before these websites existed
<dwatkins> people weren't jerks initially?
<ali1234> yes, but initially there was no facebook for them to be jerks on
<dwatkins> true, I guess that blackboard cartoon is probably the case for a lot of people, too
<dwatkins> the one about anonymity leading to idiocy
<ali1234> that's not even it
<dwatkins> oh?
<ali1234> idiocy leads to idiocy
<dwatkins> heh
<ali1234> sure people used to troll on usenet but at least it was amusing
<ali1234> compare usenet trolling to youtube arguments
<dwatkins> yeah, I assume that's the sheer number of people using the internet now leading to large numbers of idiotic noise and very little signal.
<ali1234> right
<dwatkins> I turn off most youtube comments.
<ali1234> but this is always presented journalistically as "oh look how terrible the internet is, it's full of trolls"
<dwatkins> ah, I must be mostly avoiding those journalists.
<ali1234> just read some tabloids
<dwatkins> <sarcasm> let's turn off the internet, then </sarcasm>
 * MartijnVdS turns off dwatkins' internet
<dwatkins> I can't bring myself to read the Daily Mail, it makes me want to hit walls.
<dwatkins> ......$%*####### signal lost
 * dwatkins connects with his phone
<dwatkins> can't stop the signal...
<ali1234> it's presented like malicious gossip and namecalling are a new thing caused by the internet, rather than the truth: which is that the "normal users" have brought it in with them from TV, news papers, and just general "real life"
<dwatkins> Anyway, I imagine the whole web 2.0 thing makes it really easy for even the least intelligent person to comment on something like a youtube video, thus bringing them all down to their level.
<dwatkins> arguments ensue due to simple misunderstandings, which often end in insults etc.
<MartijnVdS> and then there's the people who troll on purpose
<dwatkins> ah yes, I forget about those as I tend to /ignore them ;)
<ali1234> everyone who trolls trolls on purpose
<ali1234> that's the whole point
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what are the other kind called then? Flamers? Idiots?
<brobostigon> prats*
<ali1234> the other type is called "people you disagree with"
<MartijnVdS> some of those are provably wrong though
<dwatkins> I hadn't realised how completely nuts the Mars lander's sky crane is.
<dwatkins> BBC Horizon tells all.
<penguin42> oh yeh watched that last week - it's nuts
<dwatkins> yeah, especially the part where the rockets (hopefully) fire after it's dropped
 * penguin42 won't be watching it live
<MartijnVdS> it's got so many points of failure it's insane
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, the Beagle 2 failure was heartbreaking, but I got the impression they had far more luck-driven parts than NASA's lander.
<MartijnVdS> oh for $2bn I'm sure they've considered lots of alternatives and failsafes :)
<MartijnVdS> but sca-rey
<ali1234> hey, it's not my $2bn
<MartijnVdS> you've still got your $2bn locked in a vault somewhere? ;)
<MartijnVdS> Hmm.. someone managed to drive their car into the water at a place where the road goes UNDER the water
<ali1234> bitcoins man
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Why would you have a road that goes under the water?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: to cross it?
<penguin42> obvious really
<bigcalm> Hola :)
<penguin42> hey
<MartijnVdS> Â¡hola!
<SuperEngineer> & groet, dag, hallo as well ;)
<MartijnVdS> hoi SuperEngineer :)
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: someone turned your ! upside down!
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: Â¿Really?
<Seeker`> And your ?
<Seeker`> Something strange going on here!
<MartijnVdS> â¸OMGâ½
 * Seeker` keeps an eye out for the punctuation vandal Â¡
<Seeker`> Wait, what?! They got me too!
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19124242
<jacobw> ouch
<penguin42> yeh, ouch
<jacobw> â¸
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<jacobw> :)
<ali1234> ð©
<ali1234> some day i will paste that and it will actually work
<ali1234> but not today
<jacobw> â½
 * penguin42 wonders what http://www.dealextreme.com/p/laptop-pc-debug-card-expert-mini-pci-e-pci-lpc-diagnostic-board-w-dual-1-7-lcd-147590?r=99999999    is actually connecting to/displaying
<MartijnVdS> to the PCI bus
<penguin42> well, maybe - I mean it's offering mini-PCI-e, pci, and lpc (Low pin count) - and a display without saying what it displays - perhaps it's just displaying POST codes
<MartijnVdS> probably
<dogmatic69> damn, GB almost overtook USA in that race
<zleap> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/odroid-x-is-like-a-quad-core-raspberry-pi-for-129-20120712/ <runs ubuntu
<Azelphur> nice
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> why the hell do they need to put annoying music on these videos
<dogmatic69> quad core :O
<zleap> yeah
<Azelphur> I just bought a galaxy s3 :P
<dogmatic69> I was just going to moan about no hdmi, but see it has hdmi mini. never knew that existed
<dogmatic69> *hdmi micro
<zleap> hmm,  whats the betting the leads for that are expensive
<zleap> not many TVs are gonna have hdmi min input
<dogmatic69> make sure to get gold plated leads ;)
<zleap> yeah
<dogmatic69> went to get hdmi cable for my pi, had the obligatory gold plated 75 quid lead argument with the sales guy
<gord> i ordered an HDMI cable off amazon today, Â£6 but reduced from Â£90! what a steal!
<dogmatic69> lol
<MartijnVdS> Amazon Basics?
<dogmatic69> more like "reduced to sensible levels"
<Azelphur> I think I need more ram, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/August/IMG_20120804_193938.jpg
<gord> amazon basics didn't do a cable long enough
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: 6x 256mb?
<penguin42> Azelphur: What size ?
<gord> but amazon basics are dirt cheep always anyway
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: didn't you already have 32GB?
<Azelphur> hehe, 4GB a stick (maxed out the board)
<penguin42> get yourself something that will take 32GB DIMMS then
<MartijnVdS> that's a lot of 640kb chunks
<penguin42> ....and a mortgage
<dogmatic69> I got my board maxed out too. Too bad the max is 8GB :/
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> bitcoin price goes up, azelphur buys all the things
<dogmatic69> You should be buying gfx cards with that money
<Azelphur> gfx cards are useless, I already have ASICs on preorder
<dogmatic69> a pair of running shoes?
<Azelphur> haha
<penguin42> Azelphur: ASICs ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: application specific integrated circuits
<penguin42> Azelphur: Yeh - for bitcoin?
<Azelphur> yep.
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: you had custom hw made for bitcoins?
<penguin42> heck
<penguin42> Azelphur: Where from?
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: I didn't specifically commission it, but I bought said hardware yes
<Azelphur> from butterfly labs
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: ah ok
<Azelphur> http://www.butterflylabs.com/products/ I have 3 of the BitForce Single 'SC' on preorder (the ones on the far right, not the $599 thing)
<dogmatic69> Is a gfx card really needed for it? cant use normal servers then?
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: you can use CPU, but any CPU on the planet is going to be useless, GPU is becoming useless, FPGA is current, ASIC is near future
<penguin42> Azelphur: How do they compare to the crypto accelerators on CPUs?
<Azelphur> penguin42: no idea
<penguin42> Azelphur: I guess those are cheaper than commercial cryptographic cards for bank security applications - which are more built to be ubersecure
 * Azelphur shrugs
<penguin42> Azelphur: And is SHA256 all that you need?
<Azelphur> penguin42: yup
<Azelphur> to give you some idea, my new ASIC farm is going to be about 36 times as fast as my current farm (8 x 5870)
<penguin42> Azelphur: What would something like top of the line Radeons now give you - like 7xxx series?
<Azelphur> penguin42: depends on OC of course, but you get about 685MH/sec on a 7970
<penguin42> and your 5870?
<Azelphur> I'm very high hashrate, 441MH/sec
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: which one did you get from that products page?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Interesting
<Azelphur> I don't really see anyone getting close to my hashing speeds though
<Azelphur> I spent a long time tuning my cards and software, I have custom operating systems, bios reflashed cards, the whole thing is super optimised
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: bitforce SC single on the far right
<dogmatic69> damn, sounds like a full time job :D
<Azelphur> hehe, it was, although now it doesn't require much maintenance
<Azelphur> http://home.azelphur.com/mgpumon/ may interest people :P
<dogmatic69> I guess the bitcoins are tax free. Doubt there is a space to declare them
<penguin42> Azelphur: You didn't consider their Minirig then?
<Azelphur> penguin42: FPGA or ASIC minirig?
<Azelphur> (they have the same naming for both the FPGA and ASIC ones)
<Azelphur> well the answer to both is that they are out of my price range, anyway
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh didn't relaise some of the stuff on their page was FPGA
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea, basically the left and middle are FPGA, and the right bar is all ASIC
<penguin42> ah ok
<dogmatic69> damn, and you get 25.2GH @ $15,295 vs 40GH @ $1,299
<Azelphur> yep, it's a huge change for bitcoin
<dogmatic69> how much would 40GH/s equate to in quid
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: I could calculate that for right now, what it equates to now will not be valid in a matter of hours
<dogmatic69> sure
<penguin42> Azelphur: Presumably the availability of things like that will cause the price to drop though?
<dogmatic69> I know it will get less and less
<Azelphur> penguin42: correct
<dogmatic69> penguin42: it will make bit coins more scares
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: right now, 19.75 (~Â£146.97) a day
<dogmatic69> 19.75 bitcoins?
<Azelphur> yep
<dogmatic69> k
<dogmatic69> what would be the prediction then for sometime in september say?
<Azelphur> it's practically impossible to make such a prediction, it depends on exchange rate, difficulty, amount of people who buy them
<penguin42> you mean there isn't a short'ing market for them?
<Azelphur> I'd say "less" but by how much, you'd probably need a marketing genius to even take a rough guess.
<Azelphur> penguin42: yea but I'm not too up on stock trading so I have no idea, there's lots of options and stuff available though
<penguin42> Azelphur: It's what the commodity traders do though isn't it?
<Azelphur> I just sit on my 7%/week interest I get from BS&T mostly
<penguin42> BS&T ?
<Azelphur> bitcoin savings and trust
<penguin42> 7% reflects I guess the uncertainty in price/dogieness of the system that might collapse
<Azelphur> guess so
<Azelphur> imo the price is only going to go up over the next few months though
<Azelphur> I called this price hike a few months ago (Although I didn't think it would start happening till October)
<Azelphur> but yea, basically I'm just sitting on the price hike / interest rates and plan on cashing out a little later :)
<Azelphur> Anyone know the cheapest courier to ship stuff to USA?
<penguin42> thought there were some courier comparison sites somewhere
 * Azelphur shrugs
<MartijnVdS> Courier New
<Azelphur> lol
<cliftonts> evening guys
<brobostigon> evening cliftonts
<cliftonts> anyone here know anything about python?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> ?anyone
<cliftonts> I'm trying to follow a tutorial and I've run into a brick wall
<Azelphur> derp, this bot is ! :(
<Azelphur> !anyone
<lubotu3> A high percentage of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..." Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out? See also !details, !gq, and !poll.
<cliftonts> fair enough
<cliftonts> I'm writing a simple script to open a file and read from it
<cliftonts> If you load python and type the code in directly it works, but if I put it in a file and run the file it fails
<cliftonts> The line that fails is
<cliftonts> fileObject = open("emill.dat",'r')
<Azelphur> put the code and full error on http://pastebin.com
<cliftonts> ok, hang on
<cliftonts> I think this is right
<cliftonts> http://pastebin.com/pH5cAYug
<mattt> pythonnnn!
<mattt> .read() ?
<Azelphur> cliftonts: you want read is a function not a variable
<Azelphur> you want read()
<cliftonts> I'm just typing it as the tutorial gives it
<cliftonts> but the open statement is producing the error
<Azelphur> tutorial is wrong find a better tutorial
<cliftonts> so why if I load python and type it directly in does it work?
<Azelphur> cliftonts: it shouldn't do.
<cliftonts> very odd.
<cliftonts> Ok, so how should the open statement look?
<Azelphur> fine
<cliftonts> it's the open statement that isn't working when I save it to file
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: just had a look at your site. What is "shares". you have accepted / invalid there
<Azelphur> cliftonts: http://pastebin.com/3KqkWzFT here's an example
<cliftonts> that example has the same code which isn't working
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: I'm working as part of a pool, I do small chunks of work ("shares") and send them to the pool, sometimes the pool has moved on by the time I submit my work, making my share invalid
<cliftonts> so nobody can help me then?
<Azelphur> .....
<mattt> read isn't syntactically incorrect
<mattt> it won't throw that error
<mattt> but it's still wrong
<Azelphur> also
<Azelphur> I've just realised something
<cliftonts> the open statement does not work when I try to run it from file
<Azelphur> that error at the end of your file, it isn't a python error
<Azelphur> your trying to run python code in bash
<Azelphur> hense why it's not working so well
<cliftonts> how else do you go about writing a program?
<Azelphur> on line 1, your declaration is incorrect, remove the space on column 3
<Azelphur> and, even after fixing that, what I said is still correct, that tutorial is written by a moron if it tells you to do this: fileContents = fileObject.read
<Azelphur> find a different tutorial.
<cliftonts> please,  forget that line. At the moment I just want to understand why running it from bash behaves differently to running in python
<Azelphur> your not running it from bash
<Azelphur> your running it in bash
<cliftonts> yes
<Azelphur> bash code is not python code
<cliftonts> and what's the alternative?
<Azelphur> your python is being evaluated as bash
<Azelphur> because your running it in bash
<Azelphur> you want to run it in python.
<zleap> python programname.py
<cliftonts> I wasn't aware you could load code into python like thar
<Azelphur> yea, either that or fix your declaration on line 1 like I said earlier
<zleap> if its a simple program i think you can
<Azelphur> cliftonts: can I have a link to the tutorial your following?
<cliftonts> I was using the python for kids tutorial but I'm being rather creative with it rather than just following blindly
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> yea, but in all honesty if it tells you to do fileContents = fileObject.read, you need to stop using that tutorial
<Azelphur> because if someone can make a mistake like that, they havn't tested their code, or got past entry level python
<Azelphur> and thus shouldn't be writing a tutorial
<cliftonts> I'll look into that now, but I just needed to understand where I was going wrong in order to move on from here.
<Azelphur> cliftonts: yea
<Azelphur> did you understand the things I told you?
<Azelphur> there was multiple mistakes so I went over all of them
<cliftonts> Loading into python my program now does nothing, which I think is a step forward
<cliftonts> Yes I do, thanks
<Azelphur> cliftonts: yep that means your python code is running "correctly"
<cliftonts> yes and i now need to work on getting some output to the screen.
<Azelphur> cliftonts: here's a fixed up version if you want it, http://pastebin.com/R6sgWinW :)
<Azelphur> that works with "./test.py" too, because I fixed the declaration on line 1
<cliftonts> it now just says <built-in method read of file object at 0xb77a7ee8>
<Azelphur> cliftonts: yep, as I said your tutorial is wrooooong
<cliftonts> I guess that's my dodgy read statement not working hehe
<Azelphur> file.read is a function, so your just assigning a variable to a function
<Azelphur> yep
<cliftonts> Got it
<Azelphur> cliftonts: it's like if you do "a = open" then you could do a('emill.dat', 'r')
<Azelphur> and it'd work
<Azelphur> and a would be <built-in function open>
<cliftonts> I think I'm going to go back to the tutorial and check to see if the mistake was theirs or mine
<Azelphur> yea :P
<Azelphur> if it's theres, run from that tutorial....run like the wind!
<Azelphur> feel free to nudge me if you have any more python questions, I know #python can be a bit useless
<cliftonts> it was me, I obviously didn't copy it off accurately
<Azelphur> hehe, fair enough :)
<cliftonts> #python won't even let me in!
<Azelphur> ah, you have to have a registered nick
<cliftonts> I'm sure I'll have many more over the coming months. I don't have net access atm so when I do I don't really have time to dig for answers but normally I hunt them out myself
<Azelphur> but word of warning they are usually quite hostile to beginners :(
<cliftonts> yes, I noticed that.
<Azelphur> generally they are too busy arguing about stuff to answer questions, and you just get a link to the manual (the entire manual, rather than any specific part that might answer your question)
<cliftonts> I'm fluent in basic and I'm finding the essentals to be very familiar but of course there are lots of little culture shocks such as this one
<cliftonts> I can read and understand code very well but writing it means lots of referring back to other people's work
<Azelphur> yea I'm the same, code by example :)
<Azelphur> you'll have a lot of fun with python though, you can go very far very quickly
<cliftonts> Also I have performed this act of butchery on their tutorial because I learn better through having a practical problem to solve rather than going through lessons
<Azelphur> yea same, I never really follow manuals or books, I just try and find examples for each part, and write what I actually want
<cliftonts> I got bored learning about print (as opposed to basic's erm....print!) so I decided to convert one of my basic programs. The first thing it does is load a file
<Azelphur> :)
<cliftonts> My next issue will be it's loaded a massive list of numbers and commas, but I need them in an array so I can reference them individually
<cliftonts> so I need to work out if I load each one individually or if I take the lot in one go and somehow assign it to a list
<Azelphur> cliftonts: you will no doubt find split and splitlines useful
<cliftonts> no doubt. But making those decisions is all part of the learning curve.
<Azelphur> :)
<cliftonts> My big issue is that quick basic has it's limits. I mean I've never considered working with gui, or accessing the net, or mouse or sound etc.
<MartijnVdS> there are libraries for all those things
<Azelphur> heh, python can do all that easy
<cliftonts> How do I know what to look for if I have no core knowledge on that issue?
<Azelphur> jusk ask :)
<cliftonts> I know, but the point is I can use print becuase it's intuitive to a basic programmer. I can't even guess yet at the rest
<cliftonts> should be a challenge.
<Azelphur> hehe
<cliftonts> Anyway i have to go. Thanks for curing a serious headache for me
<cliftonts> bye
<MartijnVdS> Will something like 'Dive into Python' help?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I've been told dive into python is bad
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's not all bad, it gives a good overview
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's not very in-depth though
 * Azelphur shrugs
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and has no "meta" bits (how to package up your code properly, for example)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> pfft books anyway
<MartijnVdS> but there must be something _like_ it that's good and that can help him :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's online!
<Azelphur> my first python was "python irc example" into google, closely followed by a simple IRC bot.
<Azelphur> what is this documentation you speak of :P
<MartijnVdS> oh pydoc
<MartijnVdS> If you don't know, pydoc :)
<MartijnVdS> and maybe ipython
<MartijnVdS> though I've heard people hate on that too
<Azelphur> hehe
<bigcalm> Evenin' all
<mattt> howzit bigcalm?
<bigcalm> mattt: wet :)
<bigcalm> mattt: you?
<mattt> good, just watching some tv :)
<mattt> why wet?
<bigcalm> The weather has that effect
<directhex> lolworthy: http://ow.ly/i/Pb29/original
<directhex> the face on the yank is priceless
<bigcalm> Should I be watching the games?
<DJones> Should have been, 3 cracking golds tonight
<directhex> you could... i'm busy being astonished that we're unshit
<directhex> i don't see us dropping from third in the medal table now, tbh
<bigcalm> !ohmy | directhex
<lubotu3> directhex: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<directhex> urgh
 * directhex checks when the watershed is
<DJones> Its just after the chickenshed
<bigcalm> I don't think that there is any watershed. There's simply no swearing in this channel
<Azelphur> Anyone know of a good netbook, small (<= 11" ideally), fast and good battery life (10+ hours)?
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: ~= iPad
<Azelphur> No.
<Azelphur> xD
<DJones> Tr
<DJones> Along those lines, Transformer Prime
<dogmatic69> compiz is being a cpu hog. 45% atm
<bigcalm> Is there a small computer that will plug into an HDMI port on my TV so that I can run things like spotify and youtube?
<dogmatic69> raspberry pi?
<dogmatic69> or apple tv
<bigcalm> Thinking something like http://www.droold.com/i/252 (popey posted to g+ recently)
<ali1234> bigcalm: chromebox
<ali1234> no, that thing wil not run spotify
<bigcalm> If it's android, why not?
<ali1234> ok, premium i guess
<bigcalm> Which I have for that very reason
<bigcalm> The Chromebox looks very nice
<bigcalm> Â£278.93 from Amazon
<bigcalm> Hummz
<ali1234> well yeah, it's a real computer
<ali1234> the equiso is just a phone without a screen and keypad and a worse cpu
<bigcalm> At that price I don't care
<dogmatic69> I got something that is half installed / half broken in apt-get. How can I force remove it?
<penguin42> dogmatic69: What happens when you do something like a dpkg --purge packagename
<dogmatic69> penguin42: it moans. What I done is accidentally tried to install something in the wrong terminal window. was meant to be on a server and installed on my desktop :/
<dogmatic69> ERROR: This server is NOT supported!
<dogmatic69> ^ that is for the dpkg command
<penguin42> how did it end up partially installed?
<dogmatic69> idk how it done that, should have aborted or something. Why they do a check when removing and not installing is beyond me
<n1md4> Hello.  Does anyone have a tried and tested guide to migrating software raid1 with ubuntu, grub2, and mdadm (1.2 super)?
<dogmatic69> penguin42: apt-get upgrade -> http://pastebin.com/MBhSsujC
<dogmatic69> n1md4: migrating? to what
<n1md4> I've confidence with mdadm, use it all the time, but the combination of all 3 have left my system unbootable in the past.
<penguin42> n1md4: What do you mean migrating?
<n1md4> dogmatic69: from single drive, flat partion, to md
<n1md4> I've 2 drives installed.
<dogmatic69> back up files, format and reinstall with the raid?
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Ah OK so you need to stop the pre-removal scripts from getting run
<n1md4> dogmatic69: tried that, but the installer seems a bit dumb
<dogmatic69> n1md4: I think for software raid you select the debian installer. apparently that has "advanced" options?
<n1md4> Debian installer is good for sw raid, as is the alternative ubuntu afair ....  ah.
<n1md4> I'm installing mythbuntu, which might not help, where is the 'debian installer' option?
<penguin42> dogmatic69: So, the simplest thing to try is to try forcably installing the package again and then removing it
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Have you still got the .deb or is it still in your /var/cache/apt
<dogmatic69> penguin42: I added it to source list afaik
<penguin42> dogmatic69: OK, hack it - edit /etc/init.d/hp-health and on the line after the #! just put exit 0  and try and remove it
<dogmatic69> \o/
<dogmatic69> penguin42: ^5
<Azelphur> does anyone know if ebuyer is ok with microsoft tax refunds?
<dwatkins> Azelphur: okay with them? I thought you got that money back from Microsoft.
<Azelphur> no you have to go to the installer
<Azelphur> oh hey, looks like theopensourcer has had dealings
 * Azelphur reads his blog post
<penguin42> Azelphur: When those chips say 40GH/s - what size data are they hashing?
<Azelphur> no idea
<Azelphur> out of the depths of my knowledge :)
 * penguin42 was just wondering how much less secure it makes sha256 - or how many of those chips you need to have a fair crack at a collision
 * Azelphur shrugs
<bigcalm> Anybody here been bitten by a friendly dog?
<penguin42> doesn't sound very friendly if it bit you
<bigcalm> Like any animal, do something it doesn't like and it'll let you know
<bigcalm> I'm a cat person, so don't know what these things are with dogs
 * penguin42 is a -stay away from them- person
<penguin42> although I do talk to other peoples cats
<Azelphur> http://www.kikatek.com/P198933/NWN6UUK-Lenovo-ThinkPad-X121e-11-6-inch?source=froogle kinda tempted to get this, thoughts?
<Azelphur> (for running Ubuntu on)
 * bigcalm now imagines aquarius chasing laser dots around the floor
<bigcalm> Which will make no sense to people who do not follow myself and aquarius on twitter :)
 * Azelphur puts a potato ship on bigcalms head
<bigcalm> o.O
<Azelphur> bigcalm: http://payload.cargocollective.com/1/0/19407/1460555/potato%20ship!.jpg enjoy.
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I'm still at the WTF stage :)
<Azelphur> your never supposed to leave the WTF stage
<Azelphur> that's the whole point.
<bigcalm> :D
<Azelphur> http://pichars.org/store/3049_original_1302533887080.png here's a picture of a giant duck in a river.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Why does that make any less sense than thousands of small ducks?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: do you really want windows? that is like +100 bucks on the price of the laptop
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I assume it's all compatible with Ubuntu
<dogmatic69> s/laptop/netbook
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Except it isn't, in the sense you can't get a cheaper one without it
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: no, I specifically don't want windows
<dogmatic69> I guess you could flog it on ebay or somthing
<ali1234> penguin42: re sha256, assuming yu are talking about bitcoin mining, 40GH doesn't mean sha256 hashes
<penguin42> ali1234: Please explain
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: feel free to suggest alternatives, also brb gotta get food outta the oven :P
<ali1234> bitcoin uses sha256 but the hash functions is actually sha256(sha256(data))
 * dogmatic69 <3's his iPad
<dogmatic69> ali1234: hashing a hash makes collisions more often afaik.
<ali1234> it doesn't actually
<ali1234> it doesn't do anything except make it slower
<dogmatic69> I remember something like that from the days of md5's.
<hamitron> ali1234: surely that just means the device does 80GH for basic sha256?
<ali1234> penguin42: the input data is 80 bytes long
<ali1234> hamitron pretty much yes
<dogmatic69> anyone seen "litecoin"?
<hamitron> too much coin :/
<ali1234> i will take your unwanted coins
<hamitron> sorry, sold them
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> all types
<ali1234> except bbqcoin
<hamitron> rate I seem to spend money these days, think I need everything I can get
<hamitron> so sorry
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> at 40GH i assume you are talking about some ASIC though... it's anyone's guess if it can do plain sha256 or if it's optimized only to bitcoin mining
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh one Azelphur has pre-ordered
<hamitron> ali1234: it can't
<Azelphur> 3
<ali1234> ... or if it even exists
<hamitron> it has 2 processors in series
<ali1234> wat
<hamitron> well, the fpga version does
<ali1234> the fpga version came in well under the rated spec though :)
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> tbh, I have my doubts about these asic
<penguin42> at 40GH/s I'd think you'd have problems driving it over PCI/with whatever else oyu need to keep it busy
<ali1234> penguin42: not at all, you only need send the data to be hashed once, and it's 80 bytes
<penguin42> ali1234: But then what do you get back?
<ali1234> well actually
<ali1234> you send 76 bytes of data
<ali1234> and you get back the winning hash (256 bits) and the 4 byte nonce that created it
<penguin42> but doesn't that mean you get 40G hashes back - or is it a case of it just finding the 'winning' one more quickly ; what's the criterion for winning?
<ali1234> you hash(header+nonce)
<ali1234> the goal is to find nonce that returns a hash wth some number of leading zeros defined by the difficulty
<ali1234> so you send data, and the hardware increments nonce until it finds a winning hash
<ali1234> then returns hash and nonce
<penguin42> huh ok
<ali1234> so bandwidth usage is really really small
<ali1234> if you wanted to generic sha cracking, you would send just the desired hash and let the hardware run until it finds it
<ali1234> then it would return the winning input
<penguin42> what length of leading 0's are they typically looking for?
<ali1234> it depends on difficulty
<ali1234> most recent block hash: 00000000000005869cb5ab255ea80441b2c67b00b49d2ce3abb6a6a252c8f91c
<ali1234> difficulty: 2036671.088693
<ali1234> more zeros = harder to find the winner
<hamitron> I wonder if a lot will lose interest in bitcoin when asic arrives
<hamitron> days of "free" money will be over, unless you invest in dedicated rigs
<ali1234> even with 16 TH (size of bitcoin network), finding a full preimage on a single sha256 would take billions of years
<penguin42> ali1234: hmm, then that's kind of interesting - that 2nd sha256 is more interesting because it means you're looking for a rather unusual result
<ali1234> why?
<penguin42> I just wonder if you can optimise for that type of case
<hamitron> penguin42: you thinking shortcuts?
<hamitron> ;D
<ali1234> hashing twice doesn't change anything really
<penguin42> yeh, but I don't know it well enough - but I suspect that's really why they use 2 levels of hash, and I suspect it only helps in the last round of the hash
<ali1234> if you find a shortcut it would apply to hashing once as well
<ali1234> they hash twice just to make it slower
<ali1234> t doesn't add any security at all
<ali1234> actually there was a thread about this
<penguin42> ali1234: Wouldn't adding a 2nd hash just half the speed - and if that's all it's doing it's not much of a gain; I mean that's wiped out by the difference in GPUs and nuked by the ASIC
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> some newer coins use different hashing funcs
<ali1234> http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/779/hashing-or-encrypting-twice-to-increase-security
<hamitron> I think one of the main guys (if not the main guy) has said about bitcoin changing on the forum
<ali1234> it may provide some security according to that
<ali1234> against certain types of attack
<penguin42> hamitron: Which might be an arse for those who bought ASICs....
<hamitron> yeh, that is why I was researching it
<hamitron> because I'm still using gpu
<dogmatic69> 6k H/s
<dogmatic69> :/
<hamitron> not in the near future though
<hamitron> dogmatic69: what is doing that?
<dogmatic69> hamitron: I am checking out "litecoin"
<hamitron> ah, k
<dogmatic69> balance: 0.00 :/
<dogmatic69> my pc is an intel q6600 3.4ghz 8gig ram 1gig nvidia 9800GT
<dogmatic69> all cores at 100% :D
<hamitron> does litecoin support gpu?
<ali1234> yes
<dogmatic69> its algo is meant to be non gpu friendly or something
<hamitron> so why would anyone use a cpu?
<hamitron> ah
<ali1234> litecoin gpu is only about 3-4x more efficient than cpu
<ali1234> btc gpu is about 50-100x more efficient
<dogmatic69> ye, its not the huge diff bitcoin has. That is why I tried this as I have loads of CPU power, not GPU's
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> maybe I should set my cpu on litecoin, while using gpu for bitcoin
<hamitron> ;)
<dogmatic69> I got around 8 - 10 half decent cpus
<hamitron> and cook
<dogmatic69> hehe
<ali1234> everyne got the bitcoin fever again
<ali1234> is this cos they went ove $10 again?
 * hamitron never stopped tbh
<hamitron> well, I took a month out for fear of my health during a heat wave
<ali1234> i just have 1x 5870 running all the time
<ali1234> i'm not investing loads of money in hardware that will go obsolete
<hamitron> the high price does encourage me to not give in to the heat
<hamitron> well, I used it as an excuse to get crossfire
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> crossfire does not help
<dogmatic69> hamitron: damn, that heat wave almost wiped my pc's out
<hamitron> does not help?
<ali1234> no.
<hamitron> I got 720MH on my 5870's
<dogmatic69> my desk top cpu was pushing 70'C. Felt like I was sitting next to the radiator
<ali1234> i got 450MH on a single 5870
<hamitron> could get better with dedicated single I know
<hamitron> ali1234: you tweaked clocks?
<ali1234> somewhat
<hamitron> mine are stock
<ali1234> it's very important to set memory clock to 1/4 of gpu clock
<hamitron> 6770's are stock too
<ali1234> or is it 1/3
<ali1234> ...it's 1/3
<ali1234> that's only on 5870 though
<ali1234> that trick doesn't work on others
<hamitron> bah
<hamitron> they've paid for themselves
<hamitron> so don't owe me anything
<hamitron> still tempted to get a fpga
<hamitron> one that can mine most of the time, then to play with when I feel like it
#ubuntu-uk 2012-08-05
<dogmatic69> hamitron: according to Azelphur they are heading the same way as cpu's. eg useless.
<hamitron> they are
<hamitron> but I want one anyways
<hamitron> haha
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> obviously making too much money mining :P
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I bought the 6770 instead of fpga
<hamitron> because I wanted better gpu in a couple of my machines at the time
<hamitron> it is the ASIC that are only useful for bitcoin mining, I struggle to convince myself to buy
<ali1234> ASIC doesn't obsolete GPU in the same way as GPU did to CPU... the jump is not so big
 * penguin42 wonders how much of an ASIC it is - there are companies that have a FPGA-XASIC system that's not very optimal but will give an improvement
<penguin42> a lot cheaper than the few $1M or more for a full ASIC build on a modern process
<hamitron> ali1234: 450MH to 40,000MH is not a jump?
<ali1234> not when you consider power usage
<ali1234> after factoring the probability that the thing uses 2x more power than they claim, and gets only 0.5x the hash that they claim
<hamitron> hehe, yeh
<hamitron> I've decided I'm not buying any ASIC, until I see it
<hamitron> I may lose out on the initial high profit
<hamitron> but better than risking a load of cash imo
<ali1234> buy a used fpga cheap
<hamitron> butterfly labs are offering a trade in for their fpga units
<hamitron> I'm wondering if they may offer reconditioned units cheap later
<hamitron> which would be kind of cool, because you can re-program them to calculate other things
 * penguin42 wonders why they sell their own FPGA cards as opposed to just selling an image for someone elses
<hamitron> someone elses?
<penguin42> FPGA dev cards are pretty common
<hamitron> yeh, but they tend to be more expensive from what I've seen
<hamitron> but more flexible ofc
<penguin42> there are some cheap ones
<ali1234> probably because they don't want some toe-rag to steal their firmware and rip them off
<hamitron> that too
<ali1234> and also because they have a chip fab plant
<hamitron> penguin42: where? :/
<penguin42> hamitron: http://www.xess.com/prods/prod055.php are kind of low end ones
<ali1234> i suspect their original fpga design has some accelerated sha asic blocks too
<penguin42> they use the Xilinx Spartan series
<ali1234> but maybe it's just a generic fpga design with the serial numbers filed off
<penguin42> ali1234: It's probably a one-time-programmable FPGA
<penguin42> they're cheaper than the programmable ones - but you have to make sure you get it right :-)
<ali1234> maybe
<hamitron> it can't be, you can upload new "functions"
<penguin42> the larger/more complex FPGAs cost more of course
<penguin42> but there again, if as you're saying the data rate is very low - then why make it a PCI board
<ali1234> it isn't
<ali1234> it's a box that you plug in on usb
<hamitron> even appears as a serial port
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> "Ok, so now we are in the desert, and you find a genie, and you ask the  genie to make the carrot fresh again, and then wish a starving  billionaire would appear in front of you"
<penguin42> oh right then, probably pretty easy to build yourself that type of thing in a few days using the free FPGA tools
<ali1234> lolarguments
<penguin42> then it's just proportional to how much you'll pay for the FPGA
<hamitron> the results on the fpga dev boards I've seen, don't seem that cost effective
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> otherwise I'd have grabbed one
<hamitron> as things stand, I'd get a de0-nano just for playing with, then another for btc mining
<penguin42> they don't clock particularly fast
<ali1234> altera better supported on linux
<ali1234> or so i'm told
<penguin42> I've done Xilinx on Linux (on Ubuntu)
<hamitron> I used altera at uni on linux
<penguin42> (a few years ago - haven't done much with my board for a while)
<hamitron> seemed ok
<penguin42> hamitron: Well then, go build yourself a SHA256 FPGA
<hamitron> heh
<hamitron> always seem to be busy these days
<penguin42> yeh
<hamitron> doing 4x15 hour days each week atm
<hamitron> so whilst I do have days off, I like to recover
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> why does nobody want to recommend some nice small laptops :(
<hamitron> I saw a nice lenovo in staples
<Azelphur> hamitron: link?
<hamitron> bah
 * hamitron goes look
<hamitron> http://www.staples.co.uk/technology/computing/computing/ideapad-s205-4gb-11-6-black?r=bf
<Azelphur> that's pretty good actually, nice price too
<hamitron> you'd ahve to do price checks
<hamitron> I not looked around
<Azelphur> 5 hours battery life is a bit meh, but I do have the extra universal battery
<hamitron> or looked at specs closely
<hamitron> but it looked good
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> oh hey it has a radeon, that's nice too
<hamitron> and felt good
<Azelphur> could probably do a little bit of gaming on that
<ali1234> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x220
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's nice, bit too big though, ideally looking <=11"
<Azelphur> 11" fits in my coat pocket :D
<ali1234> chromebook?
<Azelphur> oh god, google taking over my everything
<ali1234> well obviously you wipe it and put ubuntu
<Azelphur> nah, would prefer a standard computer, I already have a Galaxy S3 and probably getting a nexus 7
<ali1234> chromeOS sucks
<Azelphur> oh, they can take Ubuntu?
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> don't they have an ARM chip which has limited compatibility?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i5 dual core
<penguin42> do they have any local storage?
<ali1234> 16GB ssd
<Azelphur> probably would want to swap that SSD out, a bit too small
<penguin42> so no then :-)
<Azelphur> (I have a 40GB SSD on the table that would do fine)
<ali1234> you want the moon on a stick
<hamitron> ali1234: you've worked it out
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> i dont knw if you can swap the hd on chromebook
<penguin42> ali1234: Problem is chromebooks just seem to be more expensive than stuff with windows on which seems sad
 * hamitron just uses windows
<ali1234> not really, cheap windows laptop/netbooks are pretty bad
<ali1234> chromebook is actually nice hardware apparently
<Azelphur> I like the idea of the decent bios that the chromebook has
<Azelphur> I bet it'd boot fast
<ali1234> 8 seconds
<Azelphur> 8 seconds with Ubuntu?
<ali1234> probaly not
<Azelphur> lol was gonna say
<Azelphur> would be cool to dual boot it
<Azelphur> bit pricey for my requirements though
<ali1234> moon on a stick
<hamitron> I still think you are missing out, not having a windows phone
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> ali1234: not really, I want a laptop for web browsing / im and decent battery life. An atom would be fine
<ali1234> get a second hand netbook from ebay
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> them acer ones are cheap
<hamitron> maybe for a reason
 * hamitron shrugs
<Azelphur> I've had bad experience with acer, they seem to make terrible touchpads
<ali1234> moon... stick...
<ali1234> the acer ones are cheap because they sold millions of them
<Azelphur> ali1234: I'd like it to turn on
 * Azelphur waits for moon, stick
<ali1234> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acer-Aspire-One-ZG5-Netbook-Windows-7-Ultimate-/140812406269?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item20c912cdfd
<Azelphur> yea, that's actually the exact netbook I was referring to when I said bad touchpad
<Azelphur> I had the privilege of working with one of those for a while, I ended up vncing it because it was just totally unusable.
<Azelphur> ali1234: as a sidenote I'd like 1080p video playback too
<ali1234> it has a great touchpad
<Azelphur> is today opposite day
<Azelphur> also from what I hear anything less than N4xx atoms chug battery, which is also not great :)
<hamitron> I wish I could get my hands on that Eee PC that had the AMD Geode cpu in it
<hamitron> unfortunately, it appeared to be targeted for poor countries like Italy and Poland
<Azelphur> yea, I had an eee before it was really nice, sold it to jacobw
 * Azelphur is filled with regret
<hamitron> they are nice
<hamitron> but also this Geode version used a weird SiS chipset
<hamitron> and there were still windows 98 drivers for it
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> lol
<hamitron> battery life was really bad though
<hamitron> and the cpu was only an i586
<hamitron> so 10.04 only, or debian
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASUS-Eee-PC-1225B-SIV064M-Netbook-/330767469369?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item4d03470b39#ht_570wt_907 this looks quite nice, maybe this o.O
<Azelphur> ali1234: hmm, I'm actually having trouble finding the i5 chromebooks, you got a link?
<Azelphur> on the chromebook website they are all atoms or "intel core" processors
<ali1234> it's because the chromebox is i5
<ali1234> the chromebook is atom
<Azelphur> oh
<ali1234> or maybe not
<ali1234> i dunno
<dogmatic69> Is it possible to have the same wallet files shared to different pc's
<Azelphur> dogmatic69: you need a determinalistic wallet for that, use electrum
<dogmatic69> ah
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> since today's upgrades, banshee crashes every time it switches to a new song after playing one
<jacobw> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jacobw> GB @ #3 :)
<mattt> yeow
<jacobw> meow
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw
<mattt> heh
<mattt> http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/reading/articles/2012/08/05/61606-mums-anger-at-free-bus-pass-refusal/
<mattt> i don't understand the schooling system here
<ali1234> uphill both ways!
<mattt> lol
<KrimZon> LUXURY!
<KrimZon> on the other hand, I cycle downhill to work - I wouldn't want it to be uphill on the way in
<bigcalm> Hello peeps :)
<brobostigon> hello bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> If I greet peeps in here, it would be less rude if I were to not then leave the room for ages
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon, having a good day?
<brobostigon> bigcalm: not bad upto now, still half asleep, and you?
<bigcalm> Looking forward to the thunderstorms that are forecast for later today :D
<bigcalm> Humm, well they were forecast on my phone
<bigcalm> BBC weather doesn't think we'll be getting any
<bigcalm> Ho-hum
<bigcalm> Lots of rain though, maybe I should mow the lawns while it's still dry :S
<brobostigon> same here yes, loads of rain. and maybe thinder etc.
<brobostigon> thunder*
<wayne__> Hi all, lauchpad is asking for my ssh key, how do i extract said key from my laptop?
<ali1234> wayne__: it's in ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub
<ali1234> or possibly not rsa but something else
<ali1234> but you need the .pub file not the other one
<wayne__> gotcha thanks
<jacobw> wayne__: use ssh-keygen to generate the keys if they don't exist
<wayne__> jacobw: thanks but im sorted now
<wayne__> whats the command to change irc chat name?
<brobostigon>  /nick newnick
<wayne__> cheers
<brobostigon> :)
<wayne__> dosnt work
<brobostigon> no spaces at the front,
<wayne__> nope none
<brobostigon> you client doesnt support that then.
<wayne__> what client do you recommend for unbuntu 12.04?
<brobostigon> i use irssi, and have for years, it a terminal client, i do not recommend it, but i dont know any others to be honest.
<wayne__> fair enough
<wayne__> thanks for your honesty
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> thunder?  you send me thunder?! Oi! you upstairs! this is *not* suitable weather for my day off - #sortit !
<MartijnVdS> but thunder is cool
<SuperEngineer> [only if you get inside b4 wet stuff falls from the sky
<jacobw> !xchat
<lubotu3> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines
<n1md4> is it possible to launch ncurses (debian style) installer from live ubuntu cd?
<n1md4> ...having read around, it would appear I've to install using the alternative iso, create the raid there, and I can then install mythbuntu-desktop.  Far too long winded, is it not possible to include raid and lvm in the gui installer?
<penguin42> n1md4: I don't think so but it's a while since I tried
<penguin42> n1md4: but I wouldn't worry about using the alternative iso - it's easy enough, just not pretty
<penguin42> n1md4: I can find a note that there were plans to support software raid in the standard install bu tit looks like it never happened: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-software-raid-in-ubiquity-for-desktop-install
<SuperEngineer> Today's lesson #1 - when running a bath... don't forget you're running a bath!
<SuperEngineer> Today's lesson #2 - when using just the hot tap... don't stick your arm in to pull pull plug!
<SuperEngineer> * pull the...
<penguin42> ouch
<SuperEngineer> Today's lesson #3 - there isn't an app in the s/w centre to politely translate subsequent swearing!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<penguin42> oh that could be an interesting challenge
<penguin42> the bug entries for it would be fun; 'Does not provide suitable translation for _____'
<SuperEngineer> ... me likey
<SuperEngineer> ['spose it could be quite easy - all nasties translated to a polite "oh darn", or "oh drat"!]
<SuperEngineer> nah!!!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oh it would have to find the appropriate time to use such phrases as sugar, drat, turlingdrome, swut and joojooflop; or maybe even Belgium
<SuperEngineer> perhaps app should translate all phrases to "shout that louder - you'll feel better"!
<SuperEngineer> ...followed by - "next time, don't be so stupid!"
<shauno> I'm sort of jealous of anyone who can fill the bath with hot water in one shot
<SuperEngineer> shauno:  que?
<jacobw> i really need to figure out how to turn the gas on in this flat
<SuperEngineer> btw - Andy Murray just won
<SuperEngineer> shauno - don't!
 * penguin42 wonders where that lightening/thunder suddenly came from
<SuperEngineer> if you can't work out how to turn it on - using it will be dangerous
<jacobw> irritatingly, my flat has 4 boilers, the kitchen and bathroom sinks each have an electric boiler, while the bath and radiator each have a gas boiler
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I sent it away from here - it was getting me down ;0
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: hmmm... pay the bill?
<jacobw> i have to work out how to pay the bill, i live in germany and i don't speak german
<SuperEngineer> btw - we've got silver & bronze in the "jump the dead horse" event
 * jacobw resolves to learn more german
<SuperEngineer> ...apparently - a.k.a. pommel horse
<dwatkins> jacobw: how long are you there for?
<jacobw> i don't know yet
<penguin42> really heavy rain after that thunder; I bet some places will have flood problems
<jacobw> it's just finised raining here
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: Ich mÃ¶chte meine gasrechnung bitte. Ich fÃ¼hle mich dumm Bohrungen durch mein Nachbar's wall.
<jacobw> ja, und wie kann ich antworted verstehen? :)
<jacobw> s/antworted/antworten
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<dwatkins> jacobw: you could use e-mail to contact them, in theory
<jacobw> i'll sort it out before winter
<dwatkins> A lot of Germans tend to speak pretty good English in my experience, but that's mainly from talking to people in the IT industry, where it's probably more likely.
<jacobw> ah, rural area ;)
<jacobw> it's like finding french speakers in hull
<dwatkins> You could always call them up and ask politely "Es tut mir leid, ich bin Englander, sprechen Sie Englisch?"
<dwatkins> (yes, apologise for being english, go on...)
<dwatkins> playing on stereotypes often helps
<jacobw> i haven't tried hard enough yet, it's on my to do list :)
<jacobw> that is true, sometimes it's easier to pretend that i don't speak any german to avoid starting anything in german
<jacobw> it's easy for conversations to escalate from simple to complex language
<penguin42> ooh that one was directly over head
<SuperEngineer> Getting confused. One of the clouds over here keeps getting brighter... seems to be a wierd yellow circle in it.
<penguin42> sounds unlikely
<penguin42> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75ESD9PBOw  inspired use of an exercise ball
<dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, I'm surprised it didn't pop
<penguin42> oh those things take quite a bit of abuse; I only know of one case of one popping in our office - under our lightest employee
<diplo_> .
<dwatkins> :
<penguin42> #
<penguin42> oh curious; synergy has started working - it only does that very very rarely
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Any londoners about ?
<alanmac> diplo, Im not a Londoner but I live in London
<diplo> That's enough, decided to take my kids to national history museum about an hour ago and working out my way down
<diplo> Nr Bath
<diplo> Was going to Hounslow Central and tube/train to there
<diplo> Piccadily line from what i can work out
<diplo> Just wondering on tickets etc, I've heard Oyster cards mentioned on here.. go that route or just buy tickets when i get there ?
<diplo> me and a 4&5 year old
<alanmac> Oyster is cheaper and the deposit on the card itself is 100% refundable
<alanmac> however if you're not planning on coming back any time soon I wouldn't bother
<diplo> Nah, well not for a month or 3 anyway
<alanmac> with your kids... I dont know if they get on the tube for free or if they need their own cards to
<alanmac> only 24.... kids are a long way off hopefully
<diplo> under 5 did for defo, havn't checked to see if 5 year olds are free as well
<daubers> diplo: Might be worth looking at rail passes as well (As you can get them with the tube on the card)
<diplo> I was trying for my first then alanmac :)
<diplo> This is for the morning though, how easy is it to get these cards etc  ?
<alanmac> rush hour is likely to be hell
<daubers> diplo: When I go to London I get them from the machine on the platform
<alanmac> I would aim for 10:00/10:30 +
<daubers> Yeah, you'll get off peak cards then too (much much cheaper)
<diplo> yeah, leaving here 9am ish, aim to be in hounslow for 10-10:30
<daubers> diplo: They're travelcards
<daubers> http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/travelcards_oyster.html
<diplo> ta reading now
<diplo> just booking us into dino area as well
<daubers> When I used to go off peak fro reading -> paddington one of those with tube was Â¬Â£25-30
<diplo> My ex wife would be going looney now if i said right were going to london tomorrow without organising anything a few weeks in advance
<diplo> :D
<diplo> Looks like about Â£8 when i checked earlier from hounslow
<daubers> diplo: The travelcards cover your train journey to London as well (if you're taking the train to London)
<diplo> yeah, so basically driving to Hounslow Central ( mates advised me to go there ) park there with the car for the day
<diplo> And train/tube it direct from there
<daubers> Ah, in that case you don't want a travel card :)
<diplo> 30 min tripi
<diplo> no mention of prices on tfl site
<diplo> ah blimey hard work to plan this
<diplo> :D
<diplo> http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en&sessionID=TLJJP15P1_4257200302&requestID=1&tripSelector1=1&itdLPxx_view=detail&tripSelection=on&command=nop&calculateDistance=1
<diplo> Does this mean im going through Zones 4-1 ?
<MartijnVdS> Short about the 100m final on BBC1 "Alan Bell - Official Starter"
 * DJones realises why AlanBell hasn't been on IRC much in the last few days, BBC have just interviewed him as the offical starter
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ^
<DJones> :)
<MartijnVdS> ooooh
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wdr4300
<MartijnVdS> ^ teh shiney
<Azelphur> I'm thinking about buying 4 of these http://bit.ly/OCDm9e o.O
<MartijnVdS> your house is that big?
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what would you use them for though?
<MartijnVdS> r
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: to replace my current ones
<Azelphur> I have 4 monitors atm, 1920x1200, wanna upgrade :)
<diplo> thanks for help daubers / alanmac
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: do you use them?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yep, using them right now :)
<zleap> how do i use boot options with linux boot:
<diplo> Seems simple enough. leave at chippenham off at juncton 3 of m4 hounslow central then South kensington
<diplo> As my son says 'simples'
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ALL of them?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yes
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's one big irssi terminal
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: can't use irssi effectively while chatting on lots of channels at the same time
<Azelphur> I have a tiled IRC setup
<MartijnVdS> zleap: Hold shift while starting, you get the boot loader screen, it has a list of keys you can use at the bottom
<zleap> ok
<MartijnVdS> diplo: ?!?!
<zleap> friend is trying to boot a macboot (old one) with 10.10
<MartijnVdS> powerpc mac?
<zleap> he got the boot: prompt pressed enter and he gets  a blank screen so I guess there is a option somewhere to disable or enable things
<zleap> yeah ppc mac
<MartijnVdS> those are different :)
<zleap> its power pc
<zleap> as in processor
<diplo> MartijnVdS: Off to National history museum in the morning, guys were giving me some advice
<MartijnVdS> zleap: yeah, I don't know which bootloader they use these days
<MartijnVdS> zleap: I used my last PPC mac in '01 or something
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> i am sure there is something you caqn type at the boot:   bit just can't remember
<MartijnVdS> you can
<MartijnVdS> it's openfirmware
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> are they still using yaboot?!
<MartijnVdS> or are they on grub2
<MartijnVdS> zleap: http://swoolley.org/man.cgi/8/yaboot
<MartijnVdS> zleap: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/YabootConfigurationForMacintoshPowerPCsDualBoot ?
<zleap> thanks
<ikonia> random UK olympic question, did we end up sending Dwane Chambers in the end ?
<ikonia> watching the 100 meters final, and discussing if he didn't get sent or just didn't get through
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: http://www.london2012.com/athlete/chambers-dwain-1250041/
<ikonia> can't find any info on his heats, I guess he just didn't get through then
<MartijnVdS> he didn't get through
<ikonia> after all that....
<zleap> It's an iBook g3 800mhz
<ikonia> bolt just beat the olympic record
<ikonia> stunning
<MartijnVdS> zleap: same generation as my green imac ;)
<zleap> AH
<zleap> wil see if the video boot options work
<diplo> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/msl20120805.html
<MartijnVdS> I used to run Debian on it
<MartijnVdS> diplo: yes! Tomorrow morning!
<diplo> \o/
<zleap> yay
<r1sc> 12.53.178.253 31337
<MartijnVdS> I have a hard time understanding Blake :|
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-29
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> yawnage
<MooDoo> +1
<TheOpenSourcerer> +100
<popey> â»
<directhex> +9001
<MooDoo> directhex: always the last word ;)
<SuperMatt> o/
<dwatkins> <HAL> Good morning, Dave </HAL>
<popey> https://twitter.com/virginmedia/status/361753975738990592
<popey> oof
<SuperMatt> D: D: D: D: D: D: D: D:
<dwatkins> fail
<dwatkins> What does DPA stand for in this context? Some kind of validation?
<TheOpenSourcerer> On a lighter note but quite amusing: http://newsthump.com/2013/07/25/wonga-com-retaliates-by-unveiling-believable-religion/
<neuro> i don't understand, how can they create a religion?
<neuro> this is disgusting
<neuro> i'm going to complain to my MP
<neuro> maybe i should set up an e-petition, those things always get results
 * popey notes it's newsthump
<SuperMatt> popey: that link is getting around my tweetors quite quickly
<neuro> i don't care what news site it is, it's disgraceful!!
<neuro> in fact, let's ban this news site
<czajkowski> aloha
 * neuro stops trying to be "funny"
<neuro> too early on a monday for comedy
 * MooDoo nearo had a go at neuro till he realised he was joking lol
<MooDoo> too early :D
<neuro> haha
<neuro> was wondering who would bite first
<neuro> i love reading some reactions to articles in the onion
<SuperMatt> popey: one thing to note: the passwords might not be *stored* in plain text, but the fact that a minimum wage service rep can get them is *extremely* worrying
<neuro> SuperMatt: what's not clear is *what* password he's talking about
<SuperMatt> I would imagine it's either the accoun
<neuro> if it's his access password to identify him over the phone to customer services, that's just bad practice
<SuperMatt> oops
<SuperMatt> for phone stuff they usually use something like mother's maiden name
<neuro> if it's his account password to their online servicing, then there's a serious problem
<SuperMatt> but I imagine he probably has an "account" password, connected to his email address
<neuro> well, it's unclear :)
<SuperMatt> sure
 * neuro has just purchased his album for the month
<neuro> Oblivion soundtrack
<MooDoo> just watched that the other night
<neuro> crackin', innit
<MooDoo> yeah enjoyeed it
<neuro> i've been saying this elsewhere, really liking Joseph Kosinski's stuff
<TheOpenSourcerer> can I have the day off? Feel like going back to bed...
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: get in the queue
<neuro> will be interesting to see what he does after the tron legacy sequel
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: in fact can i work for you so you can send me home?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Only if I can work for you too
<MooDoo> deal, feel free to go home :d
<TheOpenSourcerer> mutual employment
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Unfortunately I am already at home. Just not in bed.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ah home/office?
<TheOpenSourcerer> yes
<MooDoo> thought you had business premisis now?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had rather a "big" weekend.
<MooDoo> nuff said
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - that just cheered me up - checked company bank account. Customers paying chunky invoices in 2 days :-D
 * TheOpenSourcerer feels a divi coming on shortly.
<MooDoo> yay
<neuro> TAX EVASION ALERT!
<directhex> i got a tax refund this year :o
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nothing wrong woth divis
<neuro> sure :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you should have a community beer fund for people that help you with stuff ;)
<neuro> just make sure you never complain about corporates using tax loopholes :)
<MooDoo> you owe me a beer for the helpful advice I just gave you lol
<MooDoo> hmmm still too early?
<ali1234> whats a divi?
<neuro> dividend
<ali1234> oh, i see
<MooDoo> A dividend is a payment a company can make to shareholders if it has made enough profit.
<neuro> it's a way for contractors to save tax obligations
<ali1234> i know what a dividend is :)
<neuro> pay yourself a minimum wage, then get the rest of your profits from dividends
<neuro> doing stuff like that is why tax regulations like IR35 were brought in
<ali1234> where can i buy a leap motion except for amazon?
<popey> you want to pay in loldollars?
<ali1234> if possible, but mainly i just don't like amazon
<popey> direct?
<popey> https://store.leapmotion.com
<ali1234> ah thank you
<neuro> loldollars!
<popey> np
<popey> jono calls bitcoins "linden dollars"
<popey> iirc
<ali1234> that's just confusing
<ali1234> people will think he actually means linden dollars
<ali1234> bitcoin actually increased the value of lindens because they were one of the easiest intermediate ways to buy in
<neuro> remind me to slap jono next time i see him
<SuperMatt> aren't linden dollars from secondlife?
<ali1234> yes
<neuro> yup
<mungbean> is that still going?
<MooDoo> yeah
<neuro> http://secondlife.com/
<MooDoo> I also used to play Entropia Universe
<popey> I think I probably "played" second life for about an hour in total
<popey> i dont quite get it
<neuro> it's pretty easy to get
<mungbean> its for people who don't like leaving the house?
<neuro> think of it as visual irc with 3d building component
<neuro> mungbean: why say that?
<mungbean> irc is something i do while doing other things though
<popey> it's very much like minecraft
<popey> or vice versa
<neuro> s/irc/chat/ then
<neuro> yeah
<neuro> wouldn't surprise me if second life informed minecraft to a certain extent
<neuro> if you can grok minecraft, you can certainly grok second life
<mungbean> do you still play minecraft?
<directhex> there's no direct line from SL to minecraft
<directhex> minecraft is largely a clone of a game called infiniminer
<neuro> *sigh* :)
<neuro> i didn't say that
<mungbean> i've heard people say they don't play MC anymore cos it got dull, said notch runied it or somethig
<ali1234> on the contrary, second life is much more difficult to understand than minecraft
<ali1234> mainly because the modelling controls are so utterly awful
<ali1234> the second life economy is based around the idea of paying someone else to use it for you
<MooDoo> I love MC :D
<popey> mungbean: yes, i still play it
<popey> my kids play it quite a bit too
<MooDoo> I've got a couple of servers running which makes it a bit more fun, popey do you still have the ubuntu uk one running?
<mungbean> what's a reasonable time to wait for a quote for a new fence?
<mungbean> 1 week? 2 weeks?
<MooDoo> quote?  few days i'd say lol
<mungbean> yeah :(
<popey> MooDoo: i run one at home, it's not really ubuntu-uk one
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Tiger Day! :-D
<MooDoo> popey: ah i was just looking for the map :)
<popey> there isn't one
<mungbean> watched life of pi over the weekend. bought it in march but only just had time to watch it with missis
<mungbean> anyone enjoy it?
<DJones> In a way, I think its better to play MC without a map, you have to remember where everything is & find things by accident rather than looking at a map and going straight to a village
<MooDoo> can't say it interests me
<popey> yeah, DJones
<popey> the kids spent some time today playing with horses
<mungbean> IRL ?
<DJones> Horses are fun in MC
<mungbean> they must smell less
<popey> in minecraft
<mungbean> i wonder if MC has helped sales of lego
<mungbean> although lego don't need the help
<MooDoo> https://jeena.net/images/2012/PHP-The-Good-Parts.pdf
<MooDoo> monday funny
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: morning :)
<MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS how are you?
<MartijnVdS> bored at work ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what you do again?
<neuro> he sticks needles into squirrels to turn them into hedgehogs
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I write perl code (CMS/backend stuff for a big ISP)
<MooDoo> nice job, can see why yuor bored
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: which one <nosey mode off>
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: xs4all
<MartijnVdS> .nl
<MooDoo> name rings a bell for some reason
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: they started in the early 90s as a "hacker"-type ISP
<mungbean> loads of people on holiday this week, let's see how the documentation holds up. already had a server crash at 9am
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: cameron would seek to ban those in UK :P
<mgdm> mungbean: are you aware of the Netflix Chaos Monkey?
<MooDoo> mungbean: did you try turnng it on and off again ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: good thing we don't have cameron (and we *do* have a law that explicitly forbids filtering ;))
<mungbean> MooDoo: yes, it worked. however i spent 1hr finding the correct password for the drac/ipmi rather than the incorrect one in the docs
<mungbean> cameron would ban reddit i think, and probably google
<mungbean> mgdm: nope
<MooDoo> mungbean: you need a documentation monkey to go update them all
<mungbean> i do good docs, unfortuantely i don't manage all those people
<mgdm> mungbean: Netflix have a daemon that randomly goes and kills servers, to ensure they have fallbacks - http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/04/working-with-the-chaos-monkey.html
<mungbean> nice, i think ?
<MartijnVdS> I write great docs. Too bad our sysadmins don't read them ("How do I install this?" "perldoc X" "But how do I install it?" "perldoc X, then search for "INSTALLING" "You're not helping.")
<mgdm> mungbean: I saw someone advocate an HR equivalent, the other day, where you send people on holiday randomly to see that the documentation they left behind is good enough
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: that sounds like an excellent idea!
 * mungbean just realise my shoes smell :( need new trainers
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: did they have a name for it?
<neuro> odor eaters!
<mungbean> probably the name of my colleague
<mungbean> every time he goes away, there is catastrophe
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: 'HR Monkey'? :)
<mungbean> do odour eaters work, or just mask the smell?
<mungbean> and do they sell it in the 99p shop
<diddledan> odour eaters work until they start stinking themselves :-p
<neuro> dunno about pountd
<neuro> erk
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: but that would overload the existing term :P
<mungbean> is odour eaters a spray??
<neuro> dunno about the pound shop, but you'll get em in boots etc
<mungbean> or an insert
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: ;-)
<neuro> both
<neuro> http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Brands-A-to-Z/Odor-Eaters
<mungbean> i think its cos i went from 2 trainers to one pair
<mungbean> so the 1 pair got used all the time
<mungbean> i can buy new trainers for Â£16 :S
<neuro> do you wear your trainers all day?
<mungbean> yes, although just took them off to cool my feet down
<neuro> i only wear shoes when i'm outside
<mungbean> i'm at work
<neuro> slippers for kicking about the house
<neuro> and i take them off when i'm sitting in the lounge watching teh telly etc
<mungbean> i have work trainers though
<neuro> yes, yes, i am an Old Man
<mungbean> i have slippers for home
<neuro> so, not all day then :)
<mungbean> my fet get quite hot
<neuro> sounds like you need shoes that let your feet breath
<mungbean> Collect your order from store for free when you spend over Â£20
<mungbean> ^^ boots = rip off
<mungbean> might check local chemist
<neuro> yup, they'll do them too
<mungbean> smell = bacteria
<mungbean> so my feet are prob not good
<MartijnVdS> wash your feet?
<mungbean> yes i do :P
<mungbean> will wander down to sports direct at lunch
<neuro> best trainers i ever owned were Converse EV Pro 2K5
<mungbean> how did we get from chaos monkey to feet..
<neuro> they don't make em any more :(
<neuro> mungbean: you're the one who brought up your smelly feet
 * mgdm has new Converses, the boot kind that I've not had before, which I discovered while 'tired' on Saturday morning fit almost as well on the wrong feet as they do on the right ones
<mgdm> :(
<neuro> nice
<neuro> i don't do hi tops
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: that's easier for the factory kids
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: they only have to make one kind of show
<MartijnVdS> shoe
<mungbean> had a discussion with my 3yr old about socks. he reckons there are left socks and right socks
<mgdm> I was walking to the shop and wondered if my feet geniunely did splay out at 60 degrees
<mgdm> because that was a new thing
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: there are, go to a sports/hiking store
<neuro> mgdm: lol
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: (running/hiking socks are "sided", because they're shaped and have fewer seams)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mgdm> 'lo bigcalm
<shauno> that'd drive me nuts.  I love being able to just buy a whole bucket of identical socks
<Azelphur> well, that was eventful
<Azelphur> I just had my phone line disconnected for ~5 minutes
<mgdm> '200 for a pound-A!'
<mungbean> my wife boguht a load of black fresh feet socks for herself
<mungbean> they got mixed up with my batch
 * popey hugs his nabee socks
<Azelphur> happened before like a month ago, BT engineer told me if it happened again, sprint outside to the cabinet and see if there's an engineer messing about
<Azelphur> sure enough, located said BT engineer, seems that somebody is issuing disconnect orders for my line
<mungbean> got her to sew a little thing on the corner of her socks, but i occasionally get a tiny sock and am never quite sure
<mungbean> tainted sock collection
<Azelphur> right phone number, wrong flat number, probably why
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: just pay your bills :P
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, I am paying :<
<Azelphur> gonna phone up talktalk and tell them to stop doing that. xD
<neuro> funny, my boss has been having the exact same probs with talktalk
<mgdm> Oh, TalkTalk, eh
<MartijnVdS> neuro: twist: Azelphur IS your boss
<mgdm> (I used to work in their call centre in Lewis, before it was owned by TalkTalk)
<mgdm> (that was ~13 years ago though)
<neuro> thing is, it's still Openreach at the cab
<neuro> s/still Openreach/an Openreach engineer/
<neuro> which usually isn't too bad IME
<neuro> but worst case scenario you get a Kelly Communications engineer-o-drone
<neuro> utter muppet from what i hear
<neuro> s/muppet/muppets/
<mungbean> there's a green tele box on cambridge heath rd that is used by tramps and druggies and is open to the elements all the time. i've seen vomit on the boards in there too
<mgdm> niiiiiice
<mungbean> surprised anything works
<mungbean> door always open
<Azelphur> haha
<neuro> that's why the vdsl ones are bigger, faster, stronger
<neuro> since it's not just krone blocks, it's DSLAMs as well
<Azelphur> neuro: yea, he had my phone number but a different flat number
<Azelphur> so clearly something is up
<mgdm> Surely you mean harder, better, faster, stronger
<neuro> work it, make it do it makes us
<mungbean> hmmm
<mungbean> ps -ef | grep chrome | wc -l
<mungbean> 16
<mungbean> this does not help my memory usage. i closed chrome
<mungbean> still 16 processes running
<mgdm> kill 'em all
<mungbean> freed ~1gb
<mungbean> keeps happening though
<mungbean> and forcing tb and ff to swap out
<neuro> wimp
<neuro> melbourne:~ neuro$ ps ax | grep -i chrome | grep -vc grep
<neuro> 84
<mungbean> chrome is being used though, right?
<neuro> well yeah ;)
<mungbean> my issue is mistakenly thinking it is shut down
<mungbean> very windows-esque
<mungbean> what's yandex? a search engine?
<davmor2> Morning all
<mgdm> mungbean: I believe so, 'Big in Russia'
<mungbean> more hits from yandex than bing on my blog
<MooDoo> blimey nearly 7 years in my current job :S
<mungbean> somebody searched for "police microsoft centos"
<popey> yes, russian one
<popey> in the news recently because the founder died
<mungbean> Yandex is one of Russia's biggest internet companies - valued at Â£6.5bn ($10bn) and has more than double Google's market share in the country.
<neuro> i hate waiting for parcels
<neuro> YODEL! *shakes fist*
<mungbean> so don't
<neuro> wut
<mungbean> don't wait
<neuro> um
<neuro> i have to?
<mungbean> you make it sound like an active activity
<mungbean> make it a passive one
<neuro> it pretty much is
<mungbean> do other thing :P
<neuro> i am, but the things i can do are restricted
<mungbean> make a jigsaw puzzle
<neuro> why would i make a jigsaw puzzle?
<mungbean> :)
<neuro> i'm pretty sure i don't get paid to make jigsaw puzzles
<mungbean> it encourages thought process
 * mgdm bought "Programming the Raspberry Pi: Getting Started with Python" for his gf last night
<neuro> doesn't really contribute to productivity though, does it?
<mungbean> i would definitely do it if i had my own office still
<mungbean> long term it does
<neuro> ok,
<mungbean> work smarter not harder ;)
<neuro> a) i HATE jigsaw puzzles
<mungbean> just don't tell people , they might not believe you
<neuro> b) it wouldn't help me upgrade our web stats system
<MooDoo> mungbean: palm off all your work to a indian programmer
<MooDoo> didn't some american do that?
<neuro> c) it wouldn't help me migrate my mates' linux box
<directhex> work it
<directhex> make it
<directhex> do it
<directhex> makes us
<neuro> d) it wouldn't help me install my new nas, which is in the back of a Yodel monkey's van
<neuro> e) did I mention that I hate jigsaw puzzles?
<mungbean> sounds like you aren't waiting for b and c
<neuro> oh, and f) I HATE JIGSAW PUZZLES
<MooDoo> neuro: which nas did you go for?
<neuro> ds213j
<neuro> with a couple of 2tb reds
<MooDoo> nice
<popey> i usually do a jigsaw or two on holiday
<neuro> and a 500gb wd black for my esxi server
<popey> great way to relax
<neuro> jigsaw puzzles don't make me relax, unfortunately
<neuro> too fiddly
<directhex> any bright ideas on where to buy a rack, cheap?
<MooDoo> i'm going for the next one up the ds413
<neuro> i thought about the 413 but i don't need the storage
<MooDoo> cool :)
<mungbean> directhex: i've given some away in the past
<neuro> don't need that much capacity, i mean
<MooDoo> yeah I got you
<mungbean> contact friends and universities for sapre ones
<directhex> mungbean, that's the annoyance - racks are free or Â£Â£Â£Â£Â£ but nowhere in between really
<neuro> 2TiB more than enough for my esxi hosts
<mungbean> popey: i take jigsaws on holiday too
<mungbean> and airfix models of course
<MooDoo> neuro: you have a proper dedi then using the nas as the storage device?
<mungbean> because england always rains
<neuro> MooDoo: i have a crappy zoostorm dual pentium thing with three intel NICs onboard
<mungbean> and a nice piece of battenberg cake with hot chocolate and jigsaw rocks
<neuro> the 1TB that shipped with it is failing
<neuro> funnily enough, the RAM that shipped with it failed as well, luckily i was already going to replace it with 16GB of crucial goodness
<MooDoo> neuro: ah cool :D  i need a new machine as mine is 32bit so can only run a 3.5 esxi :(
<neuro> never buying a zoostorm again
<neuro> my other esxi box is a pentium D, runs 4.x sweet
<neuro> tho i'm decommissioning that one, an old dell dimension 5150
<MooDoo> mines running fine, just want to play with v5 :D
<neuro> power
<neuro> using less leccy = win
<neuro> yeah, my newer one runs 5, gonna upgrade to 5.1
<MooDoo> nice :)
<neuro> which reminds me, i need to charge up dell laptop to manage the bloomin' things
<MooDoo> neuro: windows client ?
<neuro> vsphere client
<MooDoo> yeah tht's what i meant, pain that isn't it.
<neuro> yup
<neuro> i only keep PCs around for vsphere and games :)
<neuro> my dell xps whatever it is has been in sleep mode for weeks
<MooDoo> i dual boot the laptop win7 / ubuntu
<neuro> in fact i forget what it is
<neuro> ah xps 8500
<neuro> i can't do dual boot
<neuro> invariably what you want is on the other OS
<neuro> which is why i prefer separate machines or virtualisation
<mungbean> i have a dual boot laptop runnign synergy for any vsphereOS needs
<neuro> "Parcel out for delivery" ... i want to listen to music, dammit!
<SuperMatt> stick a microphone next to the doorbell hoohah. Then write a program which kills the music/mutes the sound when the doorbell goes
<neuro> i don't have a doorbell
<SuperMatt> although I'm sure you could probably use an arduino or ... oh
<mungbean> magnetic switch on the knocker
<neuro> the "knocker" is a letterbo
<neuro> x
<mungbean> has a knocker though?
<neuro> it's a letterbox
<mungbean> the letterbox could have a little switch on it
<SuperMatt> could you do something where you create a circuit, and when it's broken by the opening of the letter box, it does something?
<mungbean> when the circuiot breaks...
<neuro> i don't like the idea of putting electricity anywhere near my door :)
<mungbean> i have a doggy
<neuro> ha
<mungbean> barks like crazy
<neuro> never thought of that
<SuperMatt> but it'd be a really small current
<SuperMatt> use a makey makey
<SuperMatt> oh
<MartijnVdS> I'd use a huge current. Make sure you catch the delivery guy
<neuro> tho i get enough barking from the dogs on either side
<neuro> MartijnVdS: for yodel, might be a good idea
<neuro> next time i order from ebuyer, i'll make sure to put in the notes to call me when they're at the door
<neuro> i really should put my webcam back on the office window to look right at the front door
<mgdm> s/webcam/sentry gun/
<mungbean> or install a doorbell
<neuro> doorbells suck
<neuro> just another thing i need to change the batteries in
<MartijnVdS> batteries?
<neuro> or another thing i have to run an extension lead to
<mungbean> they have a good feature though
<neuro> what, of annoying me?
<mungbean> as they can be wired/wirelessly ring in different parts of the house
<neuro> i just want a big pneumatic tube that stuff can appear from
<neuro> oh good, someone's phoning my landline
<neuro> let's see if they leave a message
<neuro> nope
<mungbean> prboavbly delivery man
<neuro> doubt it, since ebuyer don't have my landline number
<neuro> either of them
<MooDoo> anyone on virgin? - https://twitter.com/virginmedia/status/361753975738990592
<mungbean> those "character building dr who" figures were in stock for minutes, and now out of stock again :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're popular..
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I bought the anniversary edition Dr Who Monopoly
<neuro> dr who ... pfff
<MartijnVdS> neuro: it's fun!
<neuro> i've gone off it, unfortunately
<neuro> i still watch it, but it's just not as enjoyable as Old Who
<neuro> imho
<mungbean> of course
<mungbean> and i can never watch them twice
<mungbean> they go stale so quickly
<neuro> the odd episode is absolutely genius, and they're a joy to watch
<neuro> the odd episode is utter crud, and you wonder how it got past the quality control
<neuro> the rest is just ... meh
<mungbean> i think its been built up as something special though
<neuro> well it sort of is
<mungbean> in the 70s and 80s they weren't exactly epic
<neuro> there's all that heritage
<mungbean> a lot were quite humdrum and slow moving
<mungbean> and naff of course
<neuro> it's one of the few shows that's remained relatively true to itself
<neuro> well yeah
<neuro> :)
<neuro> jon pertwee got hobbled by all the "oh lets stay on earth" stuff
<mungbean> except dr who was supposed to be professiorial old man rather than pseudo messiah
<neuro> yeah
<mungbean> with fit assistants
<neuro> grumpy old man
<mungbean> actualyl he always had fit assistants
<neuro> pretty much
<neuro> mmm, teagan
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> u sure?
<neuro> ?
<neuro> course!
<neuro> and romana II
<mungbean> amy pond and clara are prob among the most attractive women on telly
<mungbean> they can sure pick them
<neuro> most of my telly is from the US, they can pick em too
<mungbean> not really my type
<neuro> monday lunchtime = watching last night's newsroom
<neuro> emily mortimer + olivia munn
<neuro> americans aren't really your type?
<neuro> also i have a man crush on jeff daniels
<mungbean> what are often considered good looking american women i rarely find attractive,
<mungbean> too fake
<neuro> depends on what you watch, i guess
<neuro> time for the newsroom \o/
<popey> wheee rain
<MooDoo> here we go again, hope it doesn't flood
<popey> hah, stopped again
<popey> it's really stop/start today
<mungbean> weird, chrome fails to exit cleanly every time
<popey> as does spotify here
<popey> crashes every time i close it
<mungbean> stays running i mean
<brobostigon> if memory serves, chrome does have a function to keep running in background, even when the main window is closed.
<mungbean> i also discovered that tweetdeck on android is now dead
<mungbean> i last checked twitter on 19th july.
<Myrtti> brobostigon: yeah and it's on by default
<brobostigon> Myrtti: yep.
<mungbean> brobostigon: found it, ta
<brobostigon> mungbean: :)
<mungbean> naughty
<Myrtti> it has some valid usecases
<Myrtti> but not many
<brobostigon> like in chromium-os
<Myrtti> like offline gmail etc.
<selinuxium> Afternoon all   o/
<selinuxium> Got a fairly upset machine... ran out of space on /boot...
<selinuxium> cleared it down but now having dependancy issues..
<selinuxium> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
<selinuxium>  linux-image-server : Depends: linux-image-3.2.0-45-generic but it is not installed
<selinuxium>  linux-server : Depends: linux-headers-server (= 3.2.0.45.54) but 3.2.0.51.61 is installed
<selinuxium> tried sudo apt-get install -f  and not helping..
<selinuxium> Any ideas?
<MooDoo> selinuxium: http://askubuntu.com/questions/252777/how-can-i-resolve-dpkg-dependency
<MooDoo> that help?
<selinuxium> MooDoo, did you get my reply? I may of had a bounce whilst replying..
<MooDoo> selinuxium: no i didn't, i can see the bounce but no reply
<selinuxium> Ah, Ok... Anyway, cheers. that helped... One thing I was missing was to remove linux-server whilst tidying up. all tidy now and linux-server reinstalled. update/upgrade in progress.
<selinuxium> :)
<MooDoo> fab :)
<selinuxium> TBH the removal of linux-server was a bit worrying... Glad the writer of the post was clear about it.
<MooDoo> google is your friend ;)
<neuro> "@YodelOnline is now following you!"
<neuro> never mind that twitter guff, yodel, where's my effing parcel!?
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> neuro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67rc96joOz8
<MooDoo> no online tracking?
<neuro> 09:27 Parcel out for delivery
<MooDoo> you'll get it at 6 or you'll hear the door go and see a note saying noone was in to collect parcel, that happened to me
<neuro> hehe, popey must have had interactions with Yodel in the past, he's following them :)
<mungbean> is there a subreddit for sound engineers?
<neuro> MooDoo: didn't even get a note through the door on saturday
<neuro> if i had no internet, i wouldn't have known
<MartijnVdS> neuro: so now you're going to interrogate him?
<neuro> pretty much
<neuro> i have the My First Amateur Waterboarding Kit handy
<diddledan> isn't amature waterboarding the equivalent to actually drowning the victim?
<selinuxium> MooDoo, I had several Googles... none came up with the remove server bit..
<mungbean> or maybe just unpaid
<Azelphur> ali1234: BFL have just mailed me to inform me that they are shipping orders on my pay date :o
<MooDoo> selinuxium: stupid computers ;)
<neuro> the interesting thing about yodel asking me on twitter what happened, is that at no time did I @ them.  They must search twitter for mentions of Yodel
<neuro> which must mean they see more yodelling pics and videos than anyone else on the planet
<neuro> other than yodellers themselves
<neuro> diddledan: nah, just means i don't have professional spec gear
<popey> neuro: yes, they neglected to deliver some tomato juice I ordered from amazon
<neuro> empty milk carton and a washing up tub
<popey> contacted them and they said "yeah, it was spoiled" - i.e. they dropped it
<neuro> popey: nice
<neuro> lol
<popey> they never told me this, so I had to nag them to find this out
<neuro> if they drop my NAS and disks, i shall go nuclear on them
<popey> heh
<neuro> if ebuyer are going to make a habit of using yodel, i will probably have to stop using them
<neuro> which is a shame
<neuro> i'd happily pay an extra few quid to get stuff delivered from them via fedex, ups, dhl, parcelforce ...
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but wait.. you can pay for other shipping, only Â£10
<neuro> ?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: oh some stores here allow you to choose how they ship it
<mungbean> top tip: i should ash up my mugs at work after using rather than 3 days later
<neuro> i can choose how quickly stuff can be shipped to me
<mungbean> ^ash^wash
<selinuxium> 'lo popey...
<MartijnVdS> neuro: but most are â¬10 or more more expensive
<neuro> and that's it
<selinuxium> I am so tempted to buy an Edge...
<neuro> do it
<neuro> or, you know, don't
<neuro> and remember, you're not "buying" an Edge, you're pledging to the campaign to build them
<mungbean> at what price though selinuxium
<selinuxium> Any news from Canonical about whether UK customers are going to get hit with import tax?
<neuro> import tax?
<selinuxium> Double Edge I think...
<Azelphur> selinuxium: I very much doubt it, the indiegogo says that it's free shipping inside UK or US, indicating that they are distributing from both locations.
<neuro> and i think the VAT issue was settled, no?
<Azelphur> UK to UK shipping isn't hit by import tax obviously
<mungbean> the reality is that unless they ofer more phones below700, it wont make it
<Azelphur> it's an assumption, but the likely scenario
<neuro> the current funding level has dipped below the straight line goal rate
<neuro> 7.05m as of 13:00, should be at least 7.35m
<mungbean> yes,
<mungbean> flatlined due to price sweet spot breached
<popey> â»
<selinuxium> Could do with some big investors getting in on the $10,000 packs..
<neuro> bah, every time i hear footsteps outside, my ears perk up
<selinuxium> I really could do with this going off.
<mungbean> neuro: have you done anything while waiting?
<neuro> "investors" is the wrong term, surely
<neuro> mungbean: of course, i've been working, and watching The Newsroom
<selinuxium> neuro: Why is that?
<neuro> selinuxium: investors expect a return on their investment
<neuro> if the campaign earns $32m, they get a phone
<neuro> if the campaign earns $132m, they get a phone
<MartijnVdS> if the campaign earnts $31999999, nobody gets a phone
<neuro> if the campaign succeeds, no more ubuntu edges will be made
<MartijnVdS> earns
<selinuxium> neuro: I invest in technology all the time, it doesn't mean I expect rewards based on sales?
<ormiret> Could count as investment if you back for a bunch of phones with the intention of putting them on ebay.
<neuro> lol
<mungbean>     Expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or...: "getting workers to invest in private pension funds"; "the company is to invest $12 million in its new manufacturing site"
<mungbean>     Devote (one's time, effort, or energy) to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.
<neuro> mungbean: my point is that (re waiting for delivery) is that i'm constantly distracted when i hear noises outside, thinking it's yodel monkey with my parcel
<neuro> and i have to not listen to music constantly because i may not hear the door
<mungbean> coulda solved that with jigsaw ;)
<neuro> or at least not at my normal listening levels
<neuro> i'd have thrown the jigsaw out of the window by now
<neuro> told you, i hate em :)
<mungbean> even a haribo one?
<mungbean> or star wars?
<neuro> I. Hate. Jigsaws.
<mungbean> i made one on my honeymoon \o/
<neuro> also, need to be super vigilant with this crowd, because they have a tendency to just rock up to your door, sans parcel, knock, immediately stick card through door, then bugger off
<mungbean> put nails on the parking space outside
<mungbean> no quick getaway
<neuro> there are a lot of parking spaces outside
<neuro> i don't live on a traditional straight street with houses on either side of a road
<neuro> so i don't have a drive
<mungbean> if you can't cure your OCD you have to pay more for timed delivery slots ;)
<MartijnVdS> neuro: you live on a 30-acre estate with a 3 mile winding driveway?
<popey> I read The Code Book on my honeymoon
<neuro> i don't have OCD
<neuro> and ebuyer don't offer timed delivery slots
<popey> *CDO
<mungbean> popey: where did you honeymoon?
<popey> Maldives
<MartijnVdS> popey: \o/ CDO, with letters in the correct order ;)
<mungbean> ah nice.
<popey> it was, very
<mungbean> i would like to so sometime, but sans kids
<popey> I would love to go back again
<mungbean> i was in a stone cottage on bodmin moor , windswept in november, wood burner stove and hot choc and marshmallows. we toook a dvd player and  bought the star wars ep III dvd as it had just come out
<neuro> sod it
<neuro> don't care
<mungbean> we did not plan on going out much
<neuro> box is here
<MartijnVdS> neuro: delivery guy is a whimpering mess?
<mungbean> neuro is aptly named
<neuro> MartijnVdS: no, i signed for it and let him go, because it's chucking it down with rain outside
<neuro> i'm a git, but i'm not that much of a git
<neuro> mungbean: _neuro_mancer
<mungbean> not neuro tic?
<neuro> neuromancer was too long for 8 char login names
<neuro> and neuroman sounded crap
<MartijnVdS> neuroman would work
<MartijnVdS> it sounds like a superhero
<mungbean> and his sister neurosis
<popey> mungbean: we had a wedding anniversary in a farmhouse with wood burning stove in Cornwall once.. very nice. No TV IIRC.
<MartijnVdS> Cornwall++
<mungbean> yeah, i try to go to devon or cornwall ever couple of years
<mungbean> going to a windsept cottage on portland this year
<mungbean> no such thing as bad weather, only wrong clothing
<popey> St Buryan was where we went
<MartijnVdS> popey: hey, I think I may have passed that place on the way back :)
<mungbean> oh that's near some lovely beaches, some of the best I've ever seen
<MartijnVdS> I can (and will ;)) recommend The Old Success Inn (Sennen Cove)
<mungbean> i go near st breward on bodmin
<popey> http://www.lamorna.biz/ found it
<popey> that was the farm
<popey> we walked down to Lamorna cove so it must be that one
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233/5878153298996490994?pid=5878153298996490994&oid=100189567362844794281
<popey> lovely part of the world
<mungbean> wanted to go back to where i stayed on my wedding night...now boarded up :( http://img01.beerintheevening.com/53/53725b52131bf5a93191d8931a0ad13d.jpg
<popey> â¹
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: did you pay to go into stonehenge or peek over the fence
<Azelphur> http://allthingsbitcoin.org/2013/07/29/bitcoin-mining-unit-sells-on-ebay-for-us10866-88/
<Azelphur> blimey, I have 3 of those
<selinuxium_> Meh.. Keep getting booted... :/
<selinuxium_> Worrying as on the work network..
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: paid, but got the "overseas visitor pass", which gets you into all English Heritage locations
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: (if you go to >3 in a week, it's cheaper than paying for entry everywhere)
<mungbean> how close can you go to the stones?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: not very
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can buy a "between the stones" tour, but they're hard to get tickets for
<SuperMatt> omg
<SuperMatt> the pope
<SuperMatt> actually doing the right thing
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: popey?
<SuperMatt> well, yeah, we know he's infallable
<SuperMatt> but I'm talking about the other one
<MartijnVdS> what did he do then?
<SuperMatt> "Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?"
<SuperMatt> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ah, so he's out of the closet?
<popey> hah
<mungbean> " that homosexual acts were sinful, but homosexual orientation was not."
<mungbean> thats been their policy forver
<mungbean> journalists are funny
<mungbean> presenting something as a news story
<mungbean> when its not
<SuperMatt> It's still big
<SuperMatt> it means that a lot of people will have to refrain from all their judging
<mungbean> christians are never meant to judge non-christians anyway
<SuperMatt> no, they're not
<SuperMatt> but they do because they haven't had anyone telling them not to
<mungbean> but there is behaviour that they disagree with as unrighteous, which makes people feel condemned
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: gee, why would THAT be
<mungbean> if i said that i don't drink tea because i believe it is sinful, then after a while you would feel judged by me
<mungbean> whethe i am judging you or not
<mungbean> can i update nfs package without having to unmount all my mounts?
<MartijnVdS> Unknown
<SuperMatt> I'm genuinely mostly excited because I wanna see the reaction of the christian americans
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Christian Americans aren't catholic usually
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: but one of several weird sects of protestantism
<SuperMatt> sure, but the reaction is going to be amazing either way :D
 * SuperMatt gets some pop-corn
<mungbean> no it won't
<mungbean> the article doesn't mean anything
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: they're very good at ignoring things they can't "process"
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: oh indeed, which is why I think it'll be interesting to watch
<SuperMatt> I want to see how they try to justify that they should ignore this
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: If you like watching grass grow, or paint dry, or similar ;)
<mungbean> american christians would say the same as me
<mungbean> as what i said up there
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: "meh"?
<mungbean> also american christians don't require celibacy for clergy, which is the cause of all sorts of problems
<MooDoo> yeah take it to #christian ;)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: neither do the English, right?
<mungbean> correct
<mungbean> it is an unbiblical concept to require it anyway
<mungbean> but that never stopped the catholics
<popey> first one to give me a giffgaff nick gets the referal
<popey> expected faster response than that
<MartijnVdS> popey: everybody is looking it up ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> i should ask on twitter, get a zillion replies than
<popey> *then
<mungbean> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/oimon
<mungbean> popey: ^
<SuperMatt> popey: deusmetallum
<mungbean> you snooze you lose SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> butts
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: God of metal? Really? :)
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> it's a username I can guarantee will not be used on any website *except* ones I've signed up to
<neuro> wheeee blinky lights
<popey> too late â»
<mungbean> you tease
<popey> asked in another channel and got an instant response
 * neuro rushes off to register 'deusmetallum' on every website he can find
<mungbean> can i restart nfs service if i've got mounts open? what happens?
<neuro> Bad.
<neuro> Bad things.
<neuro> The dead will rise from the grave.
<neuro> The moon will shift from its orbit.
<neuro> The seas will turn to blood.
<neuro> and your mounts will probably get upset for a second or to, then reattach
<neuro> s/to/two/
<mungbean> phew, just noticed my goodybag was set to *not* recur
<mungbean> oh kde, why thee so ugly? http://blogs.kde.org/2013/07/29/kde-plasma-desktop-411s-new-task-manager
<popey> \o/ got PAC code from orange
<popey> apparently i have been a customer or orange since 21/09/1995
<SuperMatt> mungbean: I agree
<SuperMatt> I've always avoided KDE because I've felt like it actually *wants* me to be sick
<mungbean> kde3.x seemed ok to me, and gnoem at the time was ugly and fuzzy and big icons etc
<neuro> popey: blimeh
<SuperMatt> To me, there always seems to be a lot of unused grey space in KDE
<mungbean> also using windows7 feels like kde too
<neuro> i've been a voda customer most of the time between 1998 and now
<neuro> bounced out to orange then to t-mob then back to voda between 2005 and 2010 :)
<neuro> this little synology dude is rather sweet
<neuro> might suggest to my dad to get one, would handle a lot of stuff on their lan with the installable apps and save me doing stuff ;)
<mungbean> and you can plug a camera into it
<MartijnVdS> synologies are â«
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> â¥
<MartijnVdS> (U+2665, not U+266b)
<mungbean> my son has decide to answer every "no" question as "nope"...every time.
<mungbean> also uses "yep" and i heard him say "whype" for why lol
<shauno> eh, you can't fault his logic :)
<mungbean> yeah, "nope" is same as no , daddy
<Azelphur> haha, aww
<mungbean> i think he picks up new words from his granpa
<mungbean> he started calling me "dad" suddenly after a visit
<mungbean> today has been dreary
<Azelphur> mungbean: saw this one the other day, amused me http://imgur.com/r/funny/9LJ3R2h
<mungbean> heheh
<mungbean> not bad for /r/funny
<Azelphur> indeed xD
<mungbean> is anyone aware of publically accessible data for populating surveys such as city-region-town that get pre-filled ?
<Azelphur> mungbean: doesn't roboform do that?
<mungbean> i mean get hold of a complete data set of cities and regions to pre-populate fields
<mungbean> i.e i choose estonia as country, then have choice of region and then choice of cities in that region
<Azelphur> oh, good question
<shauno> maxmind has a db for that (the same folks as the regular geoip db, but without the geoip)
<shauno> actually, http://www.geonames.org/export/ looks tidier since they actually specify a licence (CC-BY)
<mungbean> nice work, cheers, will look at this
<mungbean> this actually kind of proves my point
<mungbean> what they wanted to do is unreasonable
<mungbean> they should force the user to choose country from dropdown but cuty/region should be typed
<shauno> trying to force addresses is almost as hairy as trying to force names.  it has to be pretty freeform
<mungbean> i agree but needed proof
<mungbean> and is enfield in middlesex or greater london...the concept is flawed
<shauno> eg, ireland doesn't have postcodes (outside of dublin), but making sure I had a postcode is usually your first step in validation
<shauno> let alone when you start running into places like india.  we have a customer whose address is "behind such & such hotel"
<mungbean> really, no postcode?
<shauno> they're planned, but so far, nada
<shauno> the latest attempt is out for tender, and they're aiming for 2017
<shauno> and then there's places like http://smartystreets.com that are under the impression that validating addresses is difficult enough that they can built a product/service around it
<mungbean> state or country is the best yo'll feasibly be able to do yourself then
<mungbean> this is the best list i found http://pastebin.com/ZmfqR5BR
<seal> Hi Y'all.
<seal> I have been reading http://symfony.com/doc/current/cookbook/security/custom_authentication_provider.html and thinking of how to implement this both on a symfony2 based api server and consumer client.
<seal> So far my understanding is that I would implement, Token, Listener, AuthenticationProvider and Factory on the API Server. How about the client side?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2013/07/28/hs2-abandoned-in-favour-of-rebuilding-birmingham-10-minutes-closer-to-london/
<seal> Sorry guys. Wrong IRC
<MartijnVdS> sigh.. flickr:
<MartijnVdS> Woof! Martijn vdS!
<MartijnVdS> Now you know how to greet people in Dog!
<diddledan> omg, I needed to know that for a quiz yesterday
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 8-0
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<diddledan> we've got lightning - I hope my UPS holds long enough once the power goes out (it's inevitable, right?)
<MartijnVdS> I don't know
<MartijnVdS> power seems pretty steady where I live
<neuro> i've not had a thunderstorm-related power outage since I moved here nearly 13 years ago
<MartijnVdS> though last time I was in the UK when there was a storm, the power went out
<MartijnVdS> but that was in Sennen
<MartijnVdS> not quite Land's End, but almost.
<diddledan> I think land's end counts as "beyond civilisation"
<neuro> i'm having a running argument with a slow person on Twitter about why ISPs should not be responsible for the data that is sent and received over their networks, i.e. the neutral carrier argument
<neuro> he's citing megaupload and tpb as data points viz "it's not us, it's the users"
<neuro> i think i'll have to school him on the difference between website operators and Internet Service Providers
<diddledan> neuro: I'm worried where it will leave me 'cos I run a hotspot for my block of flats. I'm concerned that I'm expected to individually filter each person that connects and allow them to select the "I'm a pervert" button
<neuro> cross the bridge when it comes, mate
<neuro> remember this is just a proposal right now, nowhere near legislation
<neuro> so this is the best time to beat it down, when it's not a law that will take time to dismantle
<MartijnVdS> a scary proposal
<neuro> indeed
<diddledan> thank dog
<neuro> Woof!
<diddledan> I've signed the petition that someone linked in here yesterday
<neuro> the open rights group one?
<neuro> or the e-petitions one?
<diddledan> on the e-petitions government site
<neuro> https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/cameron-stop-sleepwalking
<diddledan> *signed*
<neuro> </tesco>
<neuro> (i.e. "Every little helps") :)
<neuro> i think you were signature 3,999 :)
<diddledan> lol, sweet
<neuro> edge now $0.5m below target
<diddledan> :-(
<neuro> they're gonna need a helluva push
<neuro> woo hoo
<neuro> root@intrepid:~# mount | grep cargobay2 | cut -d\( -f1
<neuro> cargobay2:/volume1/data on /data/cargobays/2 type nfs
<neuro> 2 terabytey goodness
<MartijnVdS> only 2? ;)
<diddledan> neuro: I like the hostname :-)
<diddledan> everyone knows cargobay2 is the best of all the bays available
<mungbean> has a petition ever achieved anything?
<brobostigon> a;an turing, possibly being pardoned by the government for his bad treatment by the government.
<popey> Hillsborough documents being released?
<ali1234> wouldn't they have to release those documents eventually anyway, after like 50 years or something?
<mgdm> yes, but by that point the people who should be held to account may no longer be about
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> alan turing has had loads of petitions and campaigning over the years
<ali1234> they were lobbying to get him pardoned when i was at uni and that was 12 years ago
<ali1234> so it's not really fair to put that all down to "a" petition
<mgdm> No
<ali1234> though of course it surely helped
<mgdm> the problem with online petitions is they're far too easy to make and it's far too easy to sign one and think to yourself you've made some kind of difference
<mgdm> with the Turing thing, the campaign was big on various other media too
<ali1234> otoh it's very easy to dismiss them like that and then do nothing at all
<mgdm> fair point
<ali1234> i signed the porn block one the other day
<ali1234> i haven't signed any others that i can remember
<daftykins> i see their being online as carrying no weight
<daftykins> although actually i see no weight to any petition
<mungbean> i signed a google drive native client one and realised it has all the power of a facebook "like"
<ali1234> that's more like a straw poll though
<ali1234> or free market research
<ali1234> "do you want free stuff? y/n"
<mungbean> on a similar topic, how much would you sell your right to vote for?
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> not less than the amount needed to buy another one
<mungbean> i voted for a major party even though they are all spectacularly bad
<ali1234> as far as the government epetitions go, the way i see it, their weight is determined in context. that is, if a petition is very much more popular than all the others then it has some weight
<mungbean> or there's been an orchestrated twitter campaign
<ali1234> so in a way, the dumb petitions people make do "help" - by providing a benchmark
<ali1234> yeah, it's called canvassing and it always happens
<ali1234> democracy doesn't spontaneously happen in a vacuum... you have to take all of that into account... which is exactly what i mean by looking at all of the petitions in context
<ali1234> hmm actually, when you say "your right to vote" are you saying that the buying gets to choose who i vote for, or the vote just does not happen?
<ali1234> these are actually quite different
<mungbean> not happen
<ali1234> perhaps a couple of hundred pounds then, in that case
<mungbean> you have choice of lifetime opt-out of voting, or just a one-off general election
<ali1234> how much is poll tax... erm i mean council tax, these days?
<mungbean> well over 1000
<ali1234> probably about that much
<mungbean> poll tax woulda been cheaper
<ali1234> i would definitely accept no tax == no vote, but only if it also applied to vat
<mungbean> i only just reading about chromecast
<mungbean> haven't seen g+ or twitter for 10 days or so
<ali1234> chromecast looks neat
<popey> yeah
<popey> cheap too
<ali1234> nobody likes futzing behind the TV with cables ... when you finally get it working and show everyone your holiday snaps it is always incredibly anti-climactic
<daftykins> apparently they're almost done getting full android on it
<mungbean> seems to be a train/coach crash every day this week
<popey> not sure I'd want full android on it
<daftykins> mungbean: been something else since the Spain one? :o
<mungbean> switz
<mungbean> and a coach in italy
<ali1234> the whole point is you control it with the full android on your tablet, in your hand
<diddledan> does chromecast work with ubuntu, though?!
<ali1234> it's like a wireless video connection
<popey> doesnt look like it
<ali1234> diddledan: not yet anyway
<diddledan> then I call shenanigans
<popey> but they have had the remote youtube thing for a while
<popey> I remember sending youtube video to my desktop, must have been part of early development of chromecast
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> well, you can remote control youtube on one device from another device, as long as they both run chrome
<ali1234> which is exactly what chromecast does. so the smart money would say it's the same sauce
<mungbean> http://askubuntu.com/questions/324236/how-can-i-use-chromecast
<popey> AIUI the chromecast runs android - or at least some guts of it
<popey> as opposed to the chromeos OS
<ali1234> meh
<mungbean> who has chromium 28?
<popey> i do
<ali1234> they're both linux and they can both run chrome (the browser)
<ali1234> chromecast dongle doesn't need any menus and desktop widgets ergo it doesn't need much of chromeOS or android
<mungbean> with extra netflix sauce?
<popey> my nexus 4 still doesn't have android 4.3
<daftykins> nor mine
<daftykins> my UK friend just flashed the recoveries on
<daftykins> https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images#occamjwr66v
<popey> if i knew where my kids nexus 7 was I'd see if that had it
<ali1234> mine doesn't show any updates
<popey> yeah, downloaded it earlier, rather do OTA tho
<daftykins> same
<daftykins> not like there's anything worth updating for anyway
<popey> I am going to drop it anyway and flash ubuntu on mine
<popey> doing a bit of a jiggle about
<mungbean> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-cast/boadgeojelhgndaghljhdicfkmllpafd
<mungbean> google cast hare content from Chrome to Cast devices.
<mungbean> The Google Cast extension enables you to find and play content on your Chromecast device from your Chrome browser.
<ali1234> hare content?
<popey> in fact screw it, I'm flashing it now
<mungbean> Share
<ali1234> like, lagomorphs?
<diddledan> popey: does the nexus7 version of ubuntu support the gsm modem yet?
<popey> the grouper has no gsm modem
<popey> i dont think we support the newer ones yet
<popey> someone is welcome to port it :D
<ali1234> it shouldn't be that hard to make it work though right?
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> I thought all three of the models were grouper (until the announcement the other day of a brand new model)
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's never that simple
<diddledan> fudge
<popey> \o/ flashed
<ali1234> that was fast!
<popey> well.. flashing...
<ali1234> oh, ok :(
<popey> android with spinning pants
<popey> s/pants/tummy/
<popey> the new flashing process should be quicker I think
<ali1234> speaking of hare content, did anyone see that TV channel for dogs thing the other day?
<ali1234> not sure if i was reading the onion or not
<ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21719731
<ali1234> apparently i was not
<popey> \o/ flashed
<diddledan> so, if my nexus 7 is not grouper, how come most things worked last time I tried it?
<ali1234> cos it's similar?
<ali1234> the code name doesn't really tell you much more than the product name
<isleofmandan> Hello, from my shiny new XPS 13 Developer Edition ;)
<popey> â»
<brobostigon> grouper as i understand it, the wifi only nexus7, and tilapia is the 2012 gsm and wifi model.
<ali1234> isleofmandan: was it you who impulse bought it the other day?
<isleofmandan> Yes
<ali1234> so, i take it you're happy with it then?
<isleofmandan> :)
<popey> I met Barton George from Dell last week.
<popey> who runs the Sputnik programme
<popey> very nice chap
<isleofmandan> So far so good. A few niggles, but it's Linux ;)
<popey> if you have niggles, call support
<ali1234> popey: that the guy who did the hangout?
<popey> they are replacing the intel wifi cards under warranty
<isleofmandan> Very minor. E.g. Installer didn't set my locale properly
<popey> dunno, didnt see it
<daftykins> isleofmandan: does yours still default to US?
<popey> you using the install that came on it? 12.04?
<ali1234> lol, i only watched it cos you plugged it
<popey> hah
<popey> powah!
<popey> I also buy miracle grow
<isleofmandan> And it has some weird windowsy/dosy partition called DELLUTILITY that just seems to waste space
<popey> thats the recovery part
<isleofmandan> popey: yes, out of the box install of 12.04
<popey> so if it borks you can reinstall
<ali1234> handy
<ali1234> ubuntu should have that by default
<popey> +1000
<daftykins> wasting disk space, ugh
<ali1234> would save me making boot disks all the time
<ali1234> i don;t care about space i have a 100GB /
<diddledan> there'd be evil version skew involved tho after a few years from purchase
<ali1234> just put the iso in a bootable partition during install please
<isleofmandan> There's another 3GB partition that I assmed was recovery... So the DELLUTILITY boots the other one?
<popey> diddledan: how so?
<ali1234> there's typically two recovery partitions on OEM hardware
<diddledan> popey: I'm assuming that dell aren't going to update the recovery partition every ubuntu release
<isleofmandan> ali1234: thanks
<ali1234> one for the OS reinstaller, the other for OEM specific stuff like drivers and also maybe a user backup tool
<ali1234> and other utils they like to stuff in there
<popey> diddledan: does any OEM?
<popey> for any OS?
<ali1234> no idea how it maps to ubuntu but i guess it's similar
<diddledan> popey: exactly
<popey> so no different
<isleofmandan> daftykins: yes, defaulted to US
<popey> its called "factory reset" for a reason â»
<ali1234> factory reset isn't always factory reset (lenovo!)
<popey> i used to like the asus eee 701/900 way of doing it in xandrois
<popey> -i
<popey> where you boot and hold f9 and it resets to factory
<popey> by deleting the overlay partition which you were using
<isleofmandan> Also, the 'Developer Edition' doesn't seem to have any dev tools. Only thing I've found above a standard install is VirtualBox. I was expecting magic cloud tools, and some sort of IDE.
<ali1234> lenovos have a special button dedicated to factory reset... which shows how much confidence they have in their software
<popey> dev tools = git i think â»
<ali1234> it turns out this lack of confidence is not misplaced, because the thing doesn't work
<popey> heh, at UDS in prague someone stabbed the "Media" button on Jono's dell laptop, it booted into media mode, and splatted grub in the process
<popey> was fun
<ali1234> lolol
<popey> turns out it was a great way to troll anyone with that laptop
<popey> just poke the media buton
<popey> +t
<ali1234> on the lenovo you have to wait 24 hours after reset before you do the first boot into windows, or it errors out
<ali1234> something to do with the broken way windows deals with the system clock, and the way NTFS records timestamps
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1937035674/leadwerks-build-linux-games-on-linux
<popey> not looking bad
<ali1234> $30,000 is cheap
<ali1234> if it costs $x million to make an email client, how can these guys make a whole game creation system for $20,000?
<popey> well, it already exists
<popey> they're "just" porting it
<ali1234> oh.
<isleofmandan> Still, niggles aside, I've come out of my beer-induced impulse XPS buy quite happily. I've never owned a machine that can open the software centre in under 40 seconds before!
<popey> haha
 * popey tests how long it takes here from a fairly clean boot
<popey> open in 3s, usable in 5s
<ali1234> pretty much the same here
<isleofmandan> My Intel Atom based desktop (which I'll never use again, it seems!) takes about 47 seconds to be useable. The thing launches in about 20 with a spinny thing, goes gray, white, gray, and finally loads
<popey> sounds about right for atom with spinning rust
<ali1234> hmm blender integration...
<ali1234> lol, they want $150,000 to support any linux distro other than ubuntu
<ali1234> and $250,000 for ubuntu mobile support
<ali1234> LOL
 * isleofmandan wonders where XPS 13 owners hang out? Is there an official support forum or anything?
<popey> there's a dell community site
<ali1234> ew
<popey> well, indeed
<isleofmandan> popey: Thanks just found it, along with the Launchpad bug pages.
<neuro> i just spent an hour writing up a blog post about the pron filter stuff
<neuro> squarespace just ate it
<neuro> the words i have just uttered are unrepeatable here
<diddledan> neuro: nasty
<diddledan> but not as nasty as some prons :-p
<daftykins> isleofmandan: ubuntu's installer used to do that for Guernsey and Jersey, it took over 4 years but it eventually got 'fixed' somehow - my bug report never got touched though so i don't know what happened
<diddledan> we're at 7.1mil
<isleofmandan> daftykins: I've not noticed the problem on 'stock' Ubuntu .iso's in the last couple of years, so assumed it was specific to this Dell setup.
<daftykins> interesting
<neuro> This is a total shadow of what i wanted it to be: http://neuro.me.uk/blog/2013/7/29/it-couldnt-happen-here-could-it
<diddledan> neuro: you don't think squarespace might be colluding with the Britsh Government and censured you
<neuro> ha
<diddledan> stranger things have happened, but the British Government won't let me tell you about them :-p
<ali1234> wait, why are the ORG running their own petition when there's one on epetitions already?
<neuro> do you really think the e-petition one will have any weight, at all?
<ali1234> yes, i explained why earlier
<ali1234> if anything it will have more weight because when you look at it in context with the rest of the site, it obviously has much more support
<ali1234> more support than all the other petitions on epetitions i mean
<ali1234> precisely because online petitions are so trivial, you can only measure them in comparison with other petitions
<ali1234> the ORG one doesn't even verify your email address is real :/
<ali1234> signed it, anyway
 * isleofmandan goes to bed.... Goodnight!
<ali1234> disqus says "there could be consequences to changing your username. are you sure you want to do it?" what are the consequences? how can i even answer this question?
<shauno> nicely worried.  you're not too attached to your kneecaps, right?
<shauno> er, *worded
<ali1234> hah. worried is more correct
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-30
<ali1234> oh btw it wasn't disqus it was discourse (i think that's what it's called)
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<MartijnVdS> anyone in here using hostapd who can try something for me? brobostigon?
<MooDoo> lo popey
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> good..splosh...drip..squelch...morning
<Laney> meow
<mungbean> glub
<bigcalm> o.O
<mungbean> somebody broke the weather here
<brobostigon> good morning evryone,
<bigcalm> Is it raining on you mungbean?
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: what is it?
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: You probably don't have wpa-enterprise set up, do you?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: not as of yet, for real, only dont plans on paper, on the basis of what you blogged.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: OK. Then you probably can't confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/freeradius/+bug/1206367 yet :)
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1206367 in freeradius (Ubuntu) "radclient fails to validate Message-Authenticator on Disconnect-ACK packets" [Undecided,New]
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (it requires a radius accounting-id, which requires WPA-Enterprise)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no, not yet, sorry.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no problem
<Guest42887> Good morning all, happy Paperback Book day! :-D
<Laney> Good old Guest42887
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> not james at all.
<mungbean> people on my facebook feed seem to be liking "fan pages of famous people" e.g. Prince Harry. Guys it's not actually prince harry posting those diana pics!!
<SuperMatt> it's not?
<SuperMatt> AWW MAN
<MooDoo> lol
<SuperMatt> I might as well delete my facebook now
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i've been trying that for years, I last 2 days
<SuperMatt> I actually don't mind using facebook
<SuperMatt> it's a path of least resistance
<mungbean> i like facebook as i have a huge family and a large wider circle of friends
<SuperMatt> me too
<SuperMatt> I kinda wish people would move to google+ though. It does all the same things, but does them better, imo
<SuperMatt> especially hangouts
<mungbean> g+ is for techie stuff, i never ever post on there though
<mungbean> not enough techies on there I actually have a relationship with
<mungbean> twitter is dead to me
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: and photos
<SuperMatt> but it doesn't have to be only for techie stuff
<mungbean> the users tends to be geeks
<MartijnVdS> .. for now
<mungbean> and ever more
<popey> fb is only for family/school/kids clubs for me
<mungbean> fb is better than ebay for me now
<SuperMatt> popey goes to a kids club?!
<mungbean> buying /selling swapping
<SuperMatt> I'm totes jelly!
<popey> ballet
<mungbean> i knew it
<MartijnVdS> popey goes to ballet?
<mungbean> popey: did you see my accidental piucture of you i drew?
<popey> no
<popey> no
<popey> my daughter was in the all england final on sunday
<mungbean> was doodling on the phone
<mungbean> then realised i'd drawn a popey
<popey> didn't get placed, but still in the top 10 in the country
<mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/cZ3gL5z.jpg
<popey> thats me?
<mungbean> when you had chops
<mungbean> do you still have chops
<popey> just asked wifey
<popey> she said it's not far off
<popey> and i should be pleased with the stick body
<mungbean> maybe its the guy from the moneysupermarket ad
<mgdm> maybe it's both
<marxjohnson> Patrick stewart?
<mungbean> thats actually what my body looks like
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: patrick stewart?
<mungbean> lol, timing
<mungbean> are we randomly saying words? Burt Reynolds?
<marxjohnson> bit too much hair to be him :)
<marxjohnson> the guy from the moneysupermarket ads
<marxjohnson> "FEEL EPIC!"
<mungbean> there was an ad with popey in it
<marxjohnson> hah I'd not spotted it
<mungbean> was about a year ago, but en mass the whole irc came online and said he was in an ad
<marxjohnson> hahaha just found it on youtube
<marxjohnson> amazing
<mungbean> link?
<marxjohnson> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiqAPN-HxYY although they've spoofed the voiceover
<mungbean> LOL
<mungbean> brian may has such ridciulous hair
<mungbean> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFxpiczpjj8
<shauno> can you imagine him without it though?  I can't
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Patrick Stewart
<shauno> well, I can't really imagine him *with* hair (in any significant quantity, anyway)
<mungbean> i claudius
<shauno> but brian may has basically looked the same my entire life.  he's just rocking a different colour scheme now
<mungbean> https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=patrick+stewart+i+claudius&oe=utf-8&gl=uk&gws_rd=cr&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=eIv3UfOMM8WY1AXo4IBQ&biw=1170&bih=474&sei=e4v3Ub26JOSx0QXm_ICADg
<shauno> okay, that just looks wrong
<shauno> he's better off shiny
<mungbean> more distinguished
<SuperMatt> I have recently watched all the episodes of TNG
<SuperMatt> and I confess there weren't many good ones
<SuperMatt> I'm now on Voyager and enjoying that a lot more
<mgdm> I got all the original cast films on blu ray recently, so that'll get rewatched
<mgdm> then I want to rewatch DS9
<mungbean> blue-ray, wow, haven't heard that i ages
<mgdm> (that's first, I mean - I want to rewatch the whole lot at some point :)
<mungbean> has anyone used usicmagpie to clear their stuff?
<mungbean> *musicmagpie
<SuperMatt> nope
<mungbean> weird. i appear to be reading a forum where every member (90%+) is male, but they use female avatars in the forum
<SuperMatt> ...
<mungbean> but not famous ones
<SuperMatt> are you sure you're not on a transgender forum?
<mungbean> just regular looking females, maybe their wives, or maybe they just like average looking females
<directhex> i used to use bubbles from the powerpuff girls as my forum avatar
<mungbean> its an aircraft modelling site
 * popey waits patiently for his phone number to migrate from ee to giffgaff
<mungbean> i understand the amypond, clara images,
<mungbean> and rachel riley
<SuperMatt> ah, maybe they're pictures of girls from lads mags
<mungbean> i think the others are just their girlfriends/wives
<mungbean> but thats not you. its your SO, so its a bit weird on a forum
<mungbean> because you think there's women posting
<zleap> they are working on some super hi density blue ray replace ment 50gb for current double layer these will be a lot more than that
<zleap> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/30/sony_and_panasonic_promise_300gb_bluray_replacement_by_2015/
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> what's happening hen i type exit on a terminal tab and it doesn't exit?
<mungbean> jsut hangs at exit, can't ctrl-c but have to close the tab
<popey> http://fossforce.com/2013/07/whats-your-favorite-foss-or-linux-blog/
<popey> i clicked "other" and voted for http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/  :D
<hamitron> most blogs require reading :/
<mungbean> never heard of the others
<mungbean> "Weâre expecting the âOtherâ option to win, and win big, because thatâs where you can go off-list to write-in your favorite personal FOSS or Linux blog."
<mungbean> thats the strangest survey know to man
<mungbean> "In other words, weâre not talking about the big websites that cover GNU/Linux and the FOSS world. "
<mungbean> so what the heck do they mean?
<popey> individuals i guess
<mungbean> phoronix was an individual wasn't it?
<popey> yes
<mungbean> "Weâre also not talking about the great Linux information sites such as Linux Magazine, Phoronix, LWN and too many more to mention"
<popey> i know â»
<popey> i suspect they mean personal blogs which aren't paid to be run
<mungbean> i think they mean, tell us about blogs with your name in. e.g. barry's blog
<popey> yeah
<popey> "A blog site must be the personal site of a single writer/blogger"
<MartijnVdS> blog.popey.com
<mungbean> i visit tumbleweed a lot
<mungbean> its a bit repetitive though
<mungbean> did you guys see this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22812944
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yeah, sugru blogged about it
<DJones> Completely offtopic, Anybody with Sky TV and a HD subscription, I'm looking at asking for the free Sky multiroom box to put in another room, I know I'll have to pay an extra Â£11 ish for the multiroom subscription, but wondered if you have to pay a 2nd HD subscription
<DJones> From what I've read, when they started multiroom HD you did have to pay, but you don't anymore
<mungbean> somebody just posted "80% of a child's intelligence is from the mother" as a "scientific fact"
<mungbean> :-|
<mgdm> mungbean: heh
<mgdm> mornin' mungbean
<mgdm> err
<mgdm> mornin' mrevell
<mrevell> hey up
<mrevell> mgdm, Your book should be with you in a couple of days.
<mgdm> mrevell: nice one, thanks again!
<mrevell> No worries :)
<mungbean> mgdm: did you ever make dioramas when you made models?
<diddledan> there's a new perk - founder with style
<diddledan> can I get two perks? :-p
<diddledan> I want the Tee
<mungbean> "this stylish shirt" where?
<mungbean> Â£50 aint gonna solve the problem though
<mgdm> mungbean: never quite got that far, sadly
<mungbean> very tempted by these little airfields http://www.amera.co.uk/product.php?range=s
<mungbean> not sure what the grass effect is though
<mgdm> looks like the same powdery stuff you used for Warhammer and the like
<mungbean> wow http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i442/ianrwalker/JS-2/DSC_0650.jpg
<mungbean> when does the amazon free super saver delivery end?
<popey> new perk added - get a t-shirt! http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge/x/1051579
<davmor2> mungbean: hornby powdered grass I would imagine if it is airfix style models, or a prebuilt base with the effect already on.
<popey> Fish finger sandwich for lunch!
<MartijnVdS> yum!
 * MartijnVdS gives popey some custard
<popey> â»
<mungbean> davmor2: do you glue powdered grass on?
<davmor2> mungbean: I think you pva the area and shape you want and then put the grass on.  They be a video online I'm sure
<mungbean> cool ta
<mungbean> remember when mailing list users used to put linux user number #3044305 on their sig lol
<mungbean> there was some self appointed website where they gave you a number
<popey> it still exists
<popey> http://linuxcounter.net/main.html
<popey> as does http://ubuntucounter.geekosophical.net/
<diddledan> lol, from the second of those: "Lucid Lynx is the current development version. It is NOT stable yet, and will not be until late April 2010. It will be LTS."
<popey> heh
<mungbean>  The New LinuxCounter Project was created in order to revive and replace the good old linux counter project on counter.li.org.
<mungbean> ah that rings a bell
<mungbean> http://linuxcounter.net/charts/_stats_when_users_started.png?1375186187
<mungbean> registrations tending to zero.
<popey> meanwhile http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/120512-google-activating-1-5m-android-devices-per-day-keeping-steady-growth-in-2013
<mungbean> wow, see this cliff falling over? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2oEyCyk3as
<diddledan> maplin are getting the leapmotion thingy
<diddledan> http://www.maplin.co.uk/leapmotion
<diddledan> Â£69.99, not a bad price
<Azelphur> indeed
<brobostigon> interesting, i wonder what sw support there is.
<diddledan> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2013/03/the-leap-motion-controller-now-supports.html <-- works with ubuntu
<directhex> can i use it to play touchscreen games on my non-touchscreen?
<brobostigon> diddledan: if it works in ubuntu, it must thus work in debian also ?
<diddledan> brobostigon: I guess potentially,yeah
<brobostigon> debian and ubuntu and mostly pretty much the same underneath.
<mungbean> arrgh bacula client is rather crashy
<diddledan> it looks like the "supports linux" is actually "can support linux if you code it for us"
<diddledan> it's an SDK that supports linux so softwares that utilise the sdk need to be written
<brobostigon> ah.
<popey> i have seen it used on ubuntu
<brobostigon> it certainly is an interesting concept.
<popey> Hmm. "Someone" should port ScummVM to Ubuntu Touch
<mgdm> well volunteered, that man
<SuperMatt> what extra work is required?
<popey> no idea
<popey> some kind of qml frontend/launcher I imagine
<popey> scummvm - engine for several graphical adventure games
<popey> it's in the repo, built for arm
<davmor2> popey: I thought the scummvm frontend was qt based already
<davmor2> popey: meh maybe not wxwindows by the look of it
<mungbean> when you feel this tired , i wonder whether working or pretending to work is more tiring
<Laney> worrying about how little you're doing due to being so tired is tiring
<mungbean> having your boss sit 4 feet behind your screen with a direct sight onto it is tiring
<mungbean> so i run 4 screens
<Laney> i remember having some irc thing that embedded itself within ms word back in the day
<Laney> maybe it was a theme for mirc
<mungbean> i run irc in a terminal with veeeery small text
<mungbean> ctrl-- about 3 times below normal
<davmor2> mungbean: one terminal with matrix run at all times  I know how you operate ;)
<mungbean> lolz
<davmor2> mungbean: but boss it's compiling look...............carry on
<mungbean> think i'm got something. feel nauseous, headache, tired
<mungbean> for 3 days
<mungbean> no alcohol involved
<selinuxium_> Mayb ethat is the problem...  :)
<mungbean> produces similar effects
<mungbean> oooh sunshine!
<popey> rain
<daftykins> rain all morning here
<daftykins> quite happy for that though :D
<mungbean> my christmas tree died :(
<mungbean> rain came to late
<bigcalm> mungbean: you shouldn't have bought it 5 months early
<mungbean> doh
<davmor2> well that or watered it
<mungbean> yes..and that..
<mungbean> i was busy for 2 weekends..it kiled it
<directhex> ok smartypantses
<directhex> why does Sparkleshare not show up in the unity dash? what's special about its .desktop file?
<DJones> Heh, just increased the services we get from sky and reduced the bill :)
<DJones> Add multiroom, get free receiver for an extra Â£11, sign up to another 12 months broadband and save Â£7, get sky go extra included with the multiroom and save Â£5, net saving Â£1
<davmor2> directhex: I don't know what's the contents of it's .desktop file?
<SuperMatt> decided to teach myself about sockets and threading by writing an irc bot. Great success
<arc__> hello :)
<popey> hi
<arc__> does snyone know the irc thing for powerpc macs
<directhex> why is there no default association for .deb in firefox?
<daftykins> would it not be bad to give users the idea that downloading deb's is the way to go?
<popey> i thought debs opened with USC
<popey> they do here anyway
<davmor2> directhex: they do here too
<directhex> popey, they do from nautilus, not firefox
<directhex> firefox uses its own list of file associations, because bees
<popey> \o/ bees
<ormiret> does firefox associate based on mime type rather than extension?
<daftykins> WiFi confused bees :(
<popey> pretty much every time someone says "bees" it makes me think of mitchell & webb
<mgdm> I used to find that in Firefox, if you said 'Open with...' and then didn't bother to choose an app, it let the desktop env decide itself
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vVG8GI2INw
<popey> BEES!
<Azelphur> hahaha
<davmor2> popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo
<davmor2> Beeeeeeeeeeeeees
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbyhRnu0UQg#at=45 bees.
<daftykins> *points between V and N on all your keyboards*
<Azelphur> daftykins: bdkh?
<daftykins> one row man, one row!
<Azelphur> daftykins: that'd be bk or dh?
<daftykins> you're being mr. non-qwerty-awkward aren't you :(
<daftykins> this does not amuse
<Azelphur> yup :(
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> http://colemak.com/wiki/images/8/80/Colemak_layout_2.png :P
<daftykins> single height enter >_<
<Azelphur> well mine isn't single height :P
<daftykins> mm-hmm
<daftykins> i find changing layouts crazy talk
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9xfz7z4k499pknu/2013-07-30%2018.07.48.jpg
<popey> AlanBell: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/creating-a-99-parallel-computing-machine-is-just-as-hard-as-it-sounds/
<diddledan__> popey, I like the pronouncement that "people should buy both [a pi and a parallela]
<diddledan__> the parallela would probably make a half-way decent mythtv backend if mythtv had some work put in to utilise the epiphany for video transcoding/clipping
<diddledan__> looks like adapteva want to be the next ARM: "Our goal is to have one of the big semiconductor vendors license our IP"
<diddledan__> quiet tonight
<mungbean> sshhh
<diddledan__> sorry
<mungbean> i've been watching les revenants
<diddledan__> who's he?
<Azelphur> popey: Elions is a friend of mine running a bitcoin related podcast that's gaining traction, was hoping he could pick your brain for a bit, do you have any advice about what sites to get listed on so you're in podcast apps rss feeds, and any clever tricks he could do for hosting?
<Elions> Woop
<popey> Azelphur: Elions hello!
<Azelphur> howdy :)
<popey> first two places I'd ensure you're listed is itunes and gpodder.net
<Elions> popey: Is Itunes hard to get listed in?
<popey> nope
<popey> stupidly easy
<popey> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1819
<Elions> popey: I've caught on pretty quick that I can't just put a podcast whenever and expect it to get the same ammount of traffic, any tips on when I should post them or am I just being paranoid on that?
<popey> be regular
<popey> weekly is good
<MartijnVdS> keep production value as high as possible
<popey> yeah
<Elions> That's what we're working on at the moment really
<popey> we record two episodes every two weeks, and put them out weekly
<Elions> Already got a better recording program. Working on a better site (stil waiting on someone who can make a template)
<popey> so there's always a weekly episode but we only record every other week
<Elions> Huh
<MartijnVdS> (make sure you don't sound like you're being chased by a pack of wild 747s :P)
<popey> the site matters less
<popey> people generally subscribe and dont visit the site
<popey> needs to be easy to a) find episodes, b) subscribe, and that's about it
<Elions> popey: What about lenght of the podcasts?
<popey> unless you really care about engagement
<popey> ours are 30 mins per episode
<MartijnVdS> Elions: learn about compression and normalisation (not "compression" like "mp3" but like "squishing the waveforms"-ish :)
<Elions> I also take it an RSS feed is a must
<MartijnVdS> Elions: 30 minutes to 1 hour seems to be a sweet spot for a lot of people I know, that's an average commute
<MartijnVdS> Elions: it is
<popey> yes, if you have no RSS feed then it's not a podcast â»
<Elions> Yeah... That's one thing we've been sorely missing. Somehow I keep forgetting to set one up
<Elions> I'll probably set it up proper tonight.
<Elions> Still doing research for the next podcast episode.
<MartijnVdS> will itunes even accept you if you don't have a feed?
<popey> no
<Azelphur> popey: the thing with RSS feed, is that it kinda depends on the site right? I assume you're using wordpress to generate your feed?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: blogger.com can also do it
<popey> we use wordpress + podpress
<popey> many sites can do it
<Azelphur> I see
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: most blog engines can do podcasting stuff these days
<Elions> Would a Django website be able to do it?
<Azelphur> Elions: yes.
<MartijnVdS> if you write it like that
<MartijnVdS> django is a bit lower-level than wordpress or drupal or something like that
<Elions> So we should probably stick with wordpress?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, I said I could handle everything for him besides the template, or he can stick with wordpress :)
<Azelphur> (but he wants a custom template, and writing one for django is going to be much less involved than for wordpress)
<Azelphur> Elions: my assessment is that if you want a custom template, then go django route and I'll do the backend coding, if don't want a custom template, I'd stick with wordpress. :)
<Elions> Azelphur: I just don't want the site to look default really
<Elions> popey: What about where to host the podcast? We were using Soundcloud but we ran into a bit of an issue since it limits the ammount of minutes you can use
<popey> we have a vps
<popey> and host ogg and mp3 versions of our show on it
<Azelphur> yea, I thought you hosted locally, that's no issue, I can host that :)
<MartijnVdS> VPSes can be had for a few Â£/month
<Azelphur> popey: outta curiosity, how much bw do you pull?
<popey> we also have a setup which distributes content to mirrors
<MartijnVdS> or a few btÂ¢/month
<popey> but that's possibly overkill
<MartijnVdS> (Âµbtc?)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: my server costs a tad more than a few Â£/mo ;)
<popey> a simple vps should be enough
<Azelphur> popey: what sort of bandwidth requirements, I assume <100GB for a simple VPS?
<popey> hard to tell
<popey> we have mirrors
<Elions> Hmm
<popey> so cant tell you how much traffic we burn
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: depends on number of listeners.
<Azelphur> ah
<popey> actually i can
<Azelphur> popey: rough estimates?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: keep the episodes to 20-30MB, and keep an eye on the stats to see if you need to upgrade
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I doubt I'll need to upgrade, we have 10TB/mo InterNAP NYC tier 1, just wanna know what I'm getting myself into ;)
 * mgdm sets up his RasPi so his gf can learn Python on it
<popey> something like 200G per episode
<Azelphur> cool, yea that'll be fine
<popey> we get about 5-6K downloads per episode
<popey> which is low for most mainstream podcasts
<Azelphur> good, won't put much of a dent in mysetup then :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: you should get the W-C back, listeners will follow ;)
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> popey: have you seen subbable.com?
<Elions> I'll be back in a moment
<Elions> gotta turn on the stove over here... It's so cold I might as well be living in an igloo
<MartijnVdS> popey: they're trying to get the American "NPR model" to web communities (2 youtube channels atm, but they've just started, and want it to be for all kinds of communities eventually)
<MartijnVdS> Elions: cold?
<popey> Elions: where is "here"?
<Elions> Chile
<popey> oh nice.
<popey> MartijnVdS: seems i have seen that as I have https://subbable.com/crashcourse in my browser history
<MartijnVdS> cgpgrey is on there now as well
<popey> thats quite neat
<mgdm> Hmmm. RPI does not like a Mac keyboard
<popey> BT or wired?
<mgdm> wired. I suspect it requires more juice. It kept connecting and disconnecting during boot
<daftykins> moar milliamps!
<Elions> Back
<Azelphur> I have a new pet spider, he seems to like hanging around on #django and #django-cms, http://imgur.com/Je6SBDa
<Azelphur> which makes sense, because web programming.
<mgdm>  /o\
<Stripe> hi guys is it OK if i post a link to the "open rights group" (British EFF) petition to try and stop UK internet censorship?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-07-31
<neuro> i could watch Oblivion over and over again quite happily for the next month or two, it seems
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<knightwise> hey mrevell
<knightwise> hey brobostigon MartijnVdS bigcalm
<mrevell> mornin'
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<bigcalm> Good morning extra peeps :)
<mungbean> another dismal grey day :(
<MartijnVdS> Arjen: \o/
<mungbean> i've been spoilt by the sunshine
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> we're getting 36Â°C on Friday.
<MartijnVdS> DO NOT WANT
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Uncommon Instrument Awareness Day! :-D
<knightwise> its kinda cloudy here
<mungbean> yay for heat
<knightwise> I told my ampache server it could pick the music today.
<knightwise> I think it must be drunk.
<mungbean> anyone know of a good app for making text adventures on linux?
<Myrtti> well brass lantern seems to have a pretty long article on them
<Myrtti> http://brasslantern.org/beginners/linuxinterps.html
<Myrtti> although I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for
<Myrtti> but anyway, if it is, atleast there seems to be few versions of tads atleast for debian
<mungbean> i was reading that page, i just installed inform
<mungbean> :)
<mungbean> not sure if it requires it to run them too though
<brobostigon> i hate when my hair is like this, all frizzy :(
<mungbean> lol, i've never heard a man say that phrase
<brobostigon> i have the hair, shoulder length, fine curly hair.
<mungbean> brian may?
<brobostigon> kinda.
<Myrtti> I wish I had atleast a bit of curl or wave in my hair
<popey> i used to have mine permed
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> really? surely no
<brobostigon> a female friend of mine did say, there is something kind of oil or something you can put in your hair, to make it less frizzy.
<popey> yeah, when i was about 15
<mungbean> pic?
<popey> my brother and sister are both hairdressers
<popey> i dont have any
<popey> well, i have one, and my scanner is packed away
<mungbean> i have darth vader helmet hairstyle at 118
<mungbean> 18
<popey> they liked to practice on me
<popey> had hilights too
<brobostigon> lol.
<MartijnVdS> https://www.youtube.com/user/ZoggFromBetelgeuse
<mungbean> fortunatly it was stil the 80s
<mungbean> fashion disasters a plenty
<brobostigon> yep.
<popey> yeah 1987
<Myrtti> I should have mine cut a bit, I haven't really done anything to it since 2009
<Myrtti> it's starting to get in the way in a major way if it's not tied back
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nom - Marmite on toast for a late breakfast. :-D
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://i.imgur.com/qioJw0N.png
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/cS4JJsA.jpg
<davmor2> Morning all
 * dwatkins shudders
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS will give me nightmares
<mungbean> how does this cost Â£150? http://www.elc.co.uk/Little-Tikes-Secret-Garden-Playhouse---Exclusive-to-ELC/130590,default,pd.html
<mungbean> its a large piece of hollow plastic
<ali1234> it has to be tested
<ali1234> health and safety gone mad if you ask me
<davmor2> mungbean: Because stupid parents will pay it to keep their kids quiet
<mungbean> its a new realm of expensive though
<mungbean> fortunately we are being given one
<davmor2> mungbean: no anything for kids has been expensive for a while,  Have a look at an argos catalogue they are designed for kids all the pretty colours
<mungbean> although resale for them is prob quite low anyway
<popey> we gave our little tikes house to the school
<mungbean> good guy popey
<popey> FSVO Good
 * mungbean feelig down in the dumps today. looking forward to week off next week
<davmor2> mungbean: if you move away from the dump you'll feel much better I'm sure ;)
<mungbean> yeah, but you have to do interviews and apply for positions..
<mungbean> its probably time to leave the company when you can't get any work done because there's no management to esnure the network team do any tickets at all.
<mungbean> devops is definitely trendy but is it a fad?
<mungbean> trying to think of previous trend
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it's an actual good thing that's been made into marketing-spea
<MartijnVdS> k
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it can be either "the devs team == the ops team", so their goals are always 100% aligned
<mungbean> quite a few jobs are asking for it when maybe they aren't devopsy jobs at all
<MartijnVdS> OR
<MartijnVdS> "the dev team and ops team are the same kind of people, but do different jobs and communicate well (instead of ops forcing things on dev and vice versa)"
<MartijnVdS> it's like "the cloud"-- nobody can define what it is, but everybody has to have experience with it
<mungbean> :S
<mungbean> oh, the sun is going behind paywall?
<MartijnVdS> the newspaper or the ball of hydrogen plasma?
<mungbean> the former
<mungbean> "news"paper
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. "the piece of paper" ;)
<MartijnVdS> "with words on"
<mungbean> mostly capital letters and bold ones
<mungbean> this is what you'll get behind the sun paywall http://i.imgur.com/aUU62nW.jpg
<Stripe> hi guys is it OK if i post a link to the "open rights group" (British EFF) petition to try and stop UK internet censorship?
<mgdm> Go for it
<mgdm> I think a lot of us might have seen it, but no harm
<Stripe> yhank you,
<Stripe> https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/cameron-stop-sleepwalking
<Stripe> mgdm thanks, I had to ask as dont want to spam, just trying to do somkething to help our internet :)
<mungbean> who will you be voting for in the next general election?
<ali1234> like i said the other day, an automatic on could actually be the thing that saves "our" internet
<ali1234> sadly though, only if enforced world wide
<Stripe> mungbean: dont know yet, ali1234 it would be nice if the whole world could agree on anything
<mungbean> Asda is stopping stocking hte Wii U
<mungbean> lol http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lomography/the-lomography-petzval-portrait-lens
<mungbean> most hipster thing i've ever seen
<Stripe> I am not a photographer at all, but that does look cool
<popey> that's hilarious
<bigcalm> Most likely the wrong place for this request...
<mungbean> #gynaecology ?
<popey> #crackwhores ?
<mungbean> #embarrassingproblems?
<popey> #windows ? I bet
<mungbean> #bsd
<bigcalm> Hehe
<davmor2> #fedora
<neuro> #dos
 * bigcalm ponders asking 1 person before opening up the question
<davmor2> #centos
<mungbean> #fairdos
<neuro> just ask it, jeez :)
<mungbean> evryone's awake now
<davmor2> bigcalm: ask already
<neuro> LET US BE THE JUDGE OF RIGHTNESS OR WRONGNESS!
<neuro> and by us, i mean popey
<dwatkins> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<dwatkins> ;-)
<neuro> !patience
<lubotu3> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com/ or http://ubuntuforums.org/ or http://askubuntu.com/
<mungbean> !lunchtime
<neuro> Om nom http://omnombuntu.com/
<neuro> and if that exists, i will be in fear
<davmor2> neuro: how dare you link to such a site
<dwatkins> thankfully it doesn't
<mungbean> did the question get asked yet?
<davmor2> dwatkins: gone on spoil it :)
<neuro> mungbean: we are all on tenterhooks
 * neuro is tempted to now register omnombuntu.com
<davmor2> neuro: omnombuntu.com/lunch and omnombuntu.com/beer
<mungbean> register.co.uk headlines in my google news are annoying me
<mungbean> prods bigcalm
<mungbean> my OCD is tingling
<popey> hehe
<mungbean> or whatever it is that makes me close brackets
<bigcalm> mungbean: sorry, question has been dealt with :)
<mungbean> nooooooooooooooooooooo.com
<mungbean> can you make a new question?
<bigcalm> Is it time for me to have lunch?
<bigcalm> Answer: yes
<bigcalm> Toodles for now
<mungbean> hmm
<TheOpenSourcerer> What should I have for lunch?
<neuro> well, that took less time than i thought
 * mungbean feels used.
<neuro> neuro@defiant:~$ whois omnombuntu.com | grep "Domain Name: "
<neuro>    Domain Name: OMNOMBUNTU.COM
 * TheOpenSourcerer ponders beans on toast...
<neuro> took longer to push the bind zonefile data out than it did to register
 * neuro has embedded lunch items in his forthcoming tesco delivery
 * neuro wonders what to do with omnombuntu now ...
<mungbean> there was an episode of big bang where sheldon had closure issues
<neuro> typical post-domain purchase buyers remorse
<mungbean> neuro: how much?
<mgdm> embedded lunch items? busylunchbox?
<neuro> no idea
<neuro> $11 or something?
<mungbean> wow.
<neuro> i just mash buttons in opensrs and stuff happens
<mungbean> next time you get pointless urge to spend, you paypal me :D
<neuro> no
<neuro> unless i actually get something
<neuro> that's why i spend money, to get stuff in return
<mungbean> i keep getting emailed every time i buy something to write a review of it
<neuro> be it a thing or a service performed
<neuro> mungbean: $11.03
<neuro> $7.85 to Verisign, $0.18 to ICANN, $3.00 to OpenSRS
<mungbean> humble website bundle
<neuro> sadly the scales can't be sliderified :)
 * neuro notes from the completed orders on his account, one of his mates has gone and registered some sort of doctor who domain
 * neuro awaits the inevitable takedown notice from the bbc
<MartijnVdS> neuro: neuro-for-eleven.co.uk?
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> -twelve
<neuro> i'm confused
<neuro> don't confuse me
<MartijnVdS> neuro: is it a domain asking the BBC to consider you as the next actor playing "the doctor"
<neuro> doctorwhoforum.co.uk
<neuro> it's a reseller account, i let my mates buy domains from me
<MartijnVdS> so not directly ;)
<diddledan__> MartijnVdS, that is a long domain. "ask-the-bbc-to-consider-neuro-as-the-next-actor-playing-the-doctor.co.uk"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan__: hence neuro-for-twelve.co.uk
<neuro> in the highly improbable event that i was offered it, i'd say bugger off
<diddledan__> that one's mucho better :-p
<diddledan__> I like saying bugger off anyway even when I haven't been offered the role of the doctor
<mungbean> mgiht be useful
<mungbean> http://blog.patdavid.net/2013/07/getting-around-in-gimp-photography.html
<Azelphur> what's a good command line virtual machine tool for Ubuntu server? I just want whatever sets up quickest :P
<mungbean> man virsh
 * Azelphur has a look
<diddledan__> +1, virsh+libvirtd+kvm is awesome
<mungbean> http://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/5.2/Virtualization/chap-Virtualization-Managing_guests_with_virsh.html
<Azelphur> this doesn't look anywhere near as simple as virtualbox
<Azelphur> xD
<popey> kvm
<mungbean> there's a simple ugly gui to help you if you like
<Azelphur> mungbean: sounds good
<mungbean> virt-manager
<mungbean> as promised, ugly and simple
<Azelphur> can I use it to manage a remote setup?
<dwatkins> I came across a mechanism for automatically installing and configuring virtual machines, but I can't find it right now.
<mungbean> xcat?
<mungbean> cloudspaz
<Azelphur> it can indeed :)
<dwatkins> I think this is it, Azelphur - http://www.vagrantbox.es/
<dwatkins> "Vagrant is an amazing tool for managing virtual machines via a simple to use command line interface. With a simple vagrant up you can be working in a clean environment based on a standard template."
<Azelphur> looks good
<dwatkins> and the docs here make it look really easy Vagrant is an amazing tool for managing virtual machines via a simple to use command line interface. With a simple vagrant up you can be working in a clean environment based on a standard template.
<dwatkins> oops, sorry - http://docs-v1.vagrantup.com/v1/docs/boxes.html
<Azelphur> this virt-manager thing is pretty cool
<Azelphur> I've got a nice little debian machine running in it, ty :)
<mungbean> booooooored
 * davmor2 sends popey to tickle mungbean 
 * dwatkins assignes all his cases to mungbean 
<Azelphur> You all hear leap motion is hitting maplin at Â£69.99 soon (preorder available)
<mungbean> i'll wait for LM to be more mature
<davmor2> mungbean: it's only ever going to be used for fun it'll never be mature ;)
 * mungbean eats all the tickets
<mungbean> i would play with that gimp gmic stuff but any procrastination must be on cli as not to arouse boss
<dwatkins> ...and that's why I use irssi ;)
<mungbean> nfs server under heavy strain, how to tell the main culprit?
<Azelphur> argh, ever since I installed askpass it keeps demanding I give it the password for alfie@azelphur.com for some reason
<Azelphur> I guess something is trying to ssh there, but 1) that user doesn't exist any more, and 2) Why is it trying to ssh that
<mgdm> that's probably actually the 'comment' on the end of one of your SSH keys?
<mgdm> if you look at the end of the lines in your SSH id_whatever.pub it might have that on the end
<mgdm> it's the username and hostname of where the key was generated - though I think they've removed it in very recent SSH
<diddledan__> well w3c, you suck! they've undeprecated the target="" attribute on anchors
<Azelphur> mgdm: no mention of alfie in ~/.ssh/*
<Azelphur> it's weird because ps aux | grep alfie is nothing too
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/31/4574878/microsoft-skydrive-name-change-bskyb
<popey> "lol"
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> popey: did you hear apple had to give up iPhone in one country, I think it was Brazil
<popey> i thought they appealed?
<popey> whaaaaaat http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-23522499
<diddledan__> popey, it's probably (the skirts) because the male teachers area liable to catch sexual predator-itis from the presence of skirts </bad taste>
<Azelphur> popey: reminds me of a school that banned shorts, so all the boys went in in skirts as a protest.
<popey> heh yeah
<neuro> the lights on my new nas are going berserk!
<davmor2> popey: I went to walkwood trust me when I say it's to lower conception rates :D
<MartijnVdS> \o/ new Computerphile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-15nx57tbfc
<neuro> http://i41.tinypic.com/wj8f1h.png
<MartijnVdS> they'll just call it Windows One or something
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: something one for a cloud service why does that ring a bell........
<SirCrispinTheJew> Ubuntu One: the Power of One
<ali1234> the entire tech industry is extremely unoriginal
<MartijnVdS> s/tech//
<neuro> "the entire industry"?
<neuro> which one
<MartijnVdS> all
<neuro> your proposed substitition is bad, and you should feel bad
<ali1234> no, the tech industry is far worse than others
<MartijnVdS> But I no English from birth! I only from school!
<ali1234> software is the only place where you get the same thing from 20 years ago with a new name, and labelled as highly innovative, and everyone accepts it because the whole system is run by 20 year olds
<neuro> yur englsh iz week i no yu r nt da smart
 * neuro stops before this degenerates into youtube comments
<MartijnVdS> neuro: is that Scottish? ;)
<neuro> no, youtublish
<MartijnVdS> blinglish
<neuro> blingish?
<MartijnVdS> the language spoken by people who are awed by "Bling"
<neuro> the language of jewellery?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bling-bling
<MartijnVdS> neuro: look for "International" on that page
<neuro> no
<ali1234> #yoloswag
<neuro> awgh
<neuro> s/w/r/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: also, Urban Dictionary knows it, so it's actually a word :P
<neuro> paranoid much?
<neuro> i know what bling means
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> anyway
<neuro> anyway, my point is U SUK
<MartijnVdS> neuro: No.
<neuro> AND [insert random rant about 9/11, Jesus, North Korea, the NSA, global warming, and/or Israel/Palestine here]
<MartijnVdS> neuro: don't forget time cube!
<neuro> um, ok?
<MartijnVdS> oh wow I think it's been updated
<ali1234> have you noticed, the crazy people have a new thing that they rant about?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: #belieber4life?
<ali1234> these days, everything has to be P2P, decentralized, and two-factor
<ali1234> even if this is provably impossible, it doesn't matter
<ali1234> it still has to be P2P, decentralized and two-factor
<ali1234> even if they don't understand what that even means
<neuro> MartijnVdS: good grief
<neuro> i can't even read that
<ali1234> timecube has malware on it now btw
<ali1234> watch out for that
<MartijnVdS> cool
<neuro> i have have tried to read it at some point in the past, but have wiped it from my mind
<ali1234> or so i am told anyway
<neuro> ali1234: chrome + mac - java
<neuro> should be fine
<MartijnVdS> it's MS-Office-generated HTML
<neuro> word 2003, blimeh
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the real way to web develop
<daftykins> *cough*
<dwatkins> I have a friend who has been writing her own CV for her website, she just opens the HTML in MS Word and edits it.
<dwatkins> Personally, I wouldn't do that, but it works for her, hideous as the HTML probably is.
<daftykins> i don't see why that's any worth doing over just using a text editor
<brobostigon> nano, or gedit, :)
<brobostigon> isnt word wysiyg though? no real coding required.
<dwatkins> brobostigon: indeed, that's probably why she uses it
<daftykins> well if you're just editing HTML you don't need to know either
<dwatkins> She wants formatting etc., though
<daftykins> :'(
<daftykins> how *not* to internet
<dwatkins> daftykins: I agree, but it's all she knows how to do - it was a nightmare trying to explain to her not to edit files directly on the server, let alone anything that isn't WYSIWYG
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hah my dad's work got a new IT guy it seems
<daftykins> they did an assessment of all the PCs on the network
<daftykins> called out his celeron 2.4GHz with XP as being 'possibly in need of an upgrade'
<daftykins> \o/
<dwatkins> 'possibly' - such a wonderful understatement
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it almost got to the point where i wanted to put a new one together just for him to put in at work
<dwatkins> make a super-duper PC in your spare time to demonstrate to the company what they could have?
<daftykins> nah, it's a case of others doing the IT and i can't really muscle in
<daftykins> if i did though, they would no longer be running in-house Exchange, ugh
<dwatkins> I had enough trouble with other people ignoring important e-mails today, but thankfully I have a relatively fast laltop.
<dwatkins> laptop, too.
<daftykins> everyones in holiday mode due to warm weather ;x
<dwatkins> yeah, it turned out the person I thought would see this mail ignores the entire distribution list :-/
<dwatkins> hopefully the customer got in touch with the backup guy, although they didn't say.
<mungbean> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
<mungbean> thoughts on this one?
<daftykins> just saw this by chance on pastebin.com =/ http://pastebin.com/FTJdyPfv
<mungbean> what the heck?
<daftykins> indeed
<DJones> AlanBell: Have you seen this, sounds like something you'd be interested in http://opensource.com/education/13/7/linux-westcliff-high-school
<shauno> that's horrific.  who on earth uses / as a delimiter?
<davmor2> shauno: when obviously you should use | :D
<mungbean>  a very english selectiion of passwords
<mungbean> lots of electrical and heating companiestoo
<mungbean> 18 matches for "arsenal"
<daftykins> ugh
<daftykins> there's a good x-files reference in there - 'trustno1'
<mungbean> letmein
<mungbean> is there
<daftykins> good times
<daftykins> my first thought was - is it worth contacting anyone?
<daftykins> but it probably isn't
<mungbean> these are all reminiscent of average joe windows users logins at a prev company
<daftykins> heh
<mungbean> daftykins: write a email;
<mungbean> \\you\R acOUNT has been cormporised
<mungbean> that will work for sure
<daftykins> they'd just report me XD
<mungbean> top tip, dont use your first name, ESPECIALLY when its in the email address trrroo.
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> 'newyork'
<daftykins> omw.
<mungbean> daftykins: report abuse button on pastebin
<mungbean> 11111111
<mungbean> absence of special chars in the list suggests brtueforce>
<neuro> this alito1 person seems to be a bit cheeky
<neuro> click on their username on that pastebin
<neuro> another paste with more emails/pwds
<neuro> and another with a few visa card numbers and cardholder details
<ali1234> this stuff turns up on pastebin all the time
<mungbean> still wont be removed if u dont report it
<ali1234> i already reported all three
<ali1234> it's interesting that there's a high proportion of co.uk in there
<ali1234> and ntl.com, btinternet.com etc
<ali1234> it must be from a UK site
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> ctrl-f my name ...phew
<mungbean> wonder if from phishing or brute force
<mungbean> my 9-char yahoo/flickr one got done out of the blue
<mungbean> by soemone is egypt
<mungbean> watching ch4 the plane the saved britain
<mungbean> about the mossie
<mgdm> Oh, there's a book called that, IIRC
<daftykins> well well, my Nexus 4 just downloaded a system update
<daftykins> ^_^
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> yay, TRIM support for me
<diddledan__> trim on a nexus 4?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> and all devices getting android 4.3
<daftykins> it kicks in depending upon charge - only after the device has been idle for 1hr
<mgdm> cunning
<daftykins> there's an article on anandtech.com
<daftykins> a full one talking performance before and after is forthcoming
 * mgdm has his eye on a new-model N7 some time this year
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> i like this article about the samsung galaxy s 4 cheating in benchmarks
<directhex> daftykins, remember the oldern days?
<daftykins> yip :)
<directhex> radeon 8500 would drop image quality in quake 3 to cheat benchmarks
<directhex> iirc nvidia cheated image quality in 3dmark
<daftykins> and of course some motherboard manufacturers would (and still do) run bus speeds slightly higher to gain a tiny edge
<daftykins> personally i shop for clothes at 'Splinter Cell bad guys.com' http://i.imgur.com/ojR8Q3p.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-01
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> #offtopic can you answer this poll for me please? - http://www.paulmellors.net/linux-based-computers/
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: hmm sweets!
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: lol it's an idea I got from lensfettish lol
<mungbean> picked up the play house for my kid and 2 pieces wouldn't fit in the estate car. smuggled them into the back garden thinking it will be OK for a few days until we get the other bits. first thing my boy says this morning "whats that yellow red and green thing in the garden?"
<MartijnVdS> ewps
<mungbean> "ummm its a thing ..."
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: how old is he?
<mungbean> 3.5
<mungbean> he didn't know what it was so desribed it perfectly
<dwatkins> mungbean: you buried it?
<MartijnVdS> .. or him?
<mungbean> we hid it in the garden but he noticed
<MartijnVdS> time for a bigger garden ;)
<mungbean> i'm clearly not as observant as i wouldn't have been looking out of the window like that
<popey> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<MartijnVdS> morning popey, SuperMatt
<popey> MooDoo: i have to say when i saw your blog post I was confused. "These are the words that strike fear into most computer users" - looked up and saw "Linux based computers" â»
<MooDoo> popey: sorry it was more for my windows based friends that are always coming to me with virus issues I wasn't going to post it in here with you lot :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Yorkshire Day! :-D
<MooDoo> I'll update the post title.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: wait.. really?
<JamesTait> Really!
<JamesTait> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Day is one source.
<mungbean> that moment your machine freezes while momentarily checking facebook on one screen and irc on the other, and you hear your boss coming ...
<mungbean> ctrl-alt-f1 .....cmon work!
<JamesTait> mungbean, squeaky bum time!
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: boss key :)
<mungbean> machine froze
<dwatkins> alt-SysRq-R ;) (don't do this, obviously)
<mungbean> turn off left monitor
<mungbean> discretely
<mungbean> stupid 4gb of RAM
<dwatkins> I have 16 GB in my laptop, it's usually enough.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: so.. yorkshire pudding, wensleydale cheese?
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, yum!
<JamesTait> I mean, yes!
<mungbean> grommitttt
<MooDoo> I tried a stilton/brie cheese the other day omnomnomnom
<ali1234> what's the deal with stilton? i think the only people who eat it are incapable of actually tasting it
<popey> I quite like stilton
<JamesTait> me too.
<popey> mind you there's few cheeses I don't like
<ali1234> do you also enjoy eating mouldy bread?
<ali1234> because that's what stilton tastes like
<popey> hah
<popey> i dont recall tasting mouldy bread
<dwatkins> I like blue cheese.
<popey> I almost certainly have though
<MooDoo> ali1234: do you drink lager?
<popey> Ooh, its nice and sunny out here, could do with a lager now
<ali1234> not really no
<popey> too early I guess
<MooDoo> ali1234: it's ok I was only teasing, was going to say if you don't like stilton and drink lager it would explain it as you can't deal with taste ;)
<ali1234> i don't like any beer really
<ali1234> i'd rather drink wine
<MooDoo> we need an ubuntu uk home bew club
<MooDoo> s/brew
<MooDoo> ali1234: yeah I love a good red :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I've already sent a sample to AlanBell and TheOpenSourcerer ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: nice, mine are in my mashing bins :D
<mungbean> scenario: nfs server has high iowait, could be one of many clients/nodes using the data poorly and contention for same spindle - how to identify?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/our-beer/ (web shop only works in Dutch for now)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: iotop
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: these the ones Alan reviewed on his blog?
<mungbean> just says nfsd
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yes
<ali1234> but really though, do people think stilton tastes like normal cheese but a bit stronger?
<mungbean> also, iptraf shows highest traffic, but might not be traffic, might be contention for same spindle
<JamesTait> ali1234, define "normal cheese".
<ali1234> JamesTait: wensleydale, cheshire etc
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Gouda ;)
<ali1234> lancashire
<ali1234> they all look pretty similar (well, if you get white stilton anyway)
<JamesTait> I'm sure there are people who look upon those cheeses as bland, tasteless, whatever.
<mungbean> i.e. which user is using a particular nfs process?
<ali1234> cheshire is probably the strongest of them, but they all taste pretty much the same, ie like cheese
<JamesTait> I like stilton because it tastes like stilton. :)
<popey> i prefer soft cheeses
<JamesTait> I still have half a mini camembert in the fridge.
<ali1234> i like camembert
<JamesTait> I occasionally treat myself to a bacon, brie and avocado sandwich on wholemeal seeded bread.
<JamesTait> Then wait a few months for my arteries to unclog. ;)
<JamesTait> MooDoo, have you published the URL for that poll anywhere else?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: facebook g+ should I remove it?
<JamesTait> I don't think so. :)
<JamesTait> I was just going to share it on Facebook, but if you've already done that I'll share your post instead. ;)
<MooDoo> thanks :D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: have you taken MooDoo's poll yet? ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: first i have heard of it.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: I only put it on my blog this morning :D lol
<brobostigon> MooDoo: ah, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: just look at the latest blog post on paulmellors.net titled windows based computers
<brobostigon> MooDoo: will do, :). i will add it to my rss also, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: oh it's not that exciting lol
<brobostigon> MooDoo: it is, it means i wont miss anything you write, now, :)
<MooDoo> I'm just working on something and need to gauge peoples interested, people like you who already run linux on a pc won't find it of interest
<brobostigon> i see.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: no offense meant in that :) lol
<brobostigon> MooDoo: i will forward it to people i know, who do use windows. :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: thank you
<brobostigon> MooDoo: youre welcome,
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: there are rounding errors
<brobostigon> MooDoo: question, you have no direct rss link on your page, it is wordpress, but whats the rss url?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 7%, 1 Votes vs 6%, 1 Votes
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: just put the page in your RSS reader, it should figure it out by itself (using the <link rel="alternate"> tag)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i see, ok, let me try that.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: alternatively, look at that tag yourself and add the URL in it to your rss reader :)
<MooDoo> sory for causing so much hassle lol
<brobostigon> no worries.
<MooDoo> I have these ideas that cause hassles lol
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<mungbean> been trying out this gmic suite of plugins for gimp, seems to improve gimp hugely for photo manipulation
<MooDoo> mungbean: got a url??
<mungbean> http://blog.patdavid.net/2013/07/getting-around-in-gimp-photography.html
<mungbean> http://blog.patdavid.net/2013/02/calvin-hollywood-freaky-details-in-gimp.html
<mungbean> can't believe i never heard of it before
<mungbean> i had the latest in the repos but thats cos i had otto's gimp.2.8 repo
<mgdm> mungbean: oh aye, it's pretty nice
<MooDoo> nice
<mgdm> the sharpening stuff actually works
<MooDoo> glad i'm cancelling my adobe CC subscription at the end of the month :)
<neuro> funnily enough ... if [ $(bzgrep -c "GET /af/ $AFLOG") -gt 0 ] ... doesn't actually grep the file in the variable $AFLOG ... been looking at that for 20 minutes before i saw it :P
 * neuro starts to make gurgling noises
 * MooDoo pats neuro on the back
<neuro> bloody web statistics
<MooDoo> awstats ftw ;)
<neuro> i need to massage the logs first
<neuro> edward snowden has left the transit area of sheremetyevo
<neuro> looks like he's gotten 1 yr temporary asylum in .ru
<MartijnVdS> let's hope he's not gay..
<MartijnVdS> or he'll be arrested again
<MartijnVdS> (weird russians)
<neuro> he'd be more likely to have the crap beaten out of him :(
<dwatkins> I may be boycotting the winter olympics if Russia don't change that particular law.
<MooDoo> if he's walking around .ru he won't last long
<MooDoo> it's gone a bit quiet in here
<mgdm> sssh, you spoiled it
<MooDoo> zip!
<mgdm> bz2!
<MartijnVdS> 7z!
<MooDoo> .tgz
<mgdm> Rar.
<diddledan> eek
 * diddledan wonders who just tried wikipediing the "eek" compression format
<popey> lhz
<popey> lha even
<diddledan> arc
<popey> i used to have a floppy disk full of archiving tools
<popey> pkzip, pkarc, arj, lharc...
<diddledan> xz is the most compressive I've found for text
<popey> happy days
<MooDoo> popey: loads on the amiga!
<popey> never had an amiga
<mgdm> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<mgdm> Wasn't sure if that still worked \o/
<MattJ> It still works \o/
<diddledan> Jabber \o/
<diddledan> ?
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<diddledan> am I missing something?
<MattJ> http://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/jabber.png
<MattJ> Since... 2008
<MooDoo> going on about jabber sigh...i'd never mention jabber coz jabber isn't funny so please don't mention jabber
<ali1234> what on earth is wrong with your computer?!?
<MooDoo> it tends to jabber
<MattJ> At least I don't have that compiz window wobble on highlight now
<MooDoo> lol
<diddledan> your window used to wobble when someone said jabber?
<MattJ> Yes
<diddledan> why would you have a jabber wobble?
<diddledan> :-p
<MooDoo> coz it's fun :D
<MattJ> Thankfully no other channel has discovered my secret in all these year
<MattJ> s
<diddledan> lol
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<MooDoo> hello big
<MooDoo> hello bigcalm
<brobostigon> afternoonings bigcalm
<bigcalm> Who is celebrating IPA day? :)
<brobostigon> IPA day?
<diddledan> international p**is awareness day?
<bigcalm> Indian Pale Ale
<mgdm> IPA day, you say
 * mgdm will acquire some Deuchars tonight
<bigcalm> mgdm: mixed reports that it is today or tomorrow
<mgdm> I'll celebrate twice, to be sure
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I might have to celebrate as well, after badminton
<bigcalm> That said, I'm happy to celebrate the IPA any day of the year
<mgdm> hehe
<brobostigon> does celebrating IPA day, tonight with a curry sound acceptable ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only if you also have an IPA ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, that what i meant, :)
 * dwatkins assumes this is a beer-related abbreviation, not a financial one
<MartijnVdS> though curry is supposed to be from the same I as IPA was originally developed for ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's not international phonetic alphabet day
<brobostigon> interwesting MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> Oscar Kilo ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ËÉªntÉrËnÃ¦ÊÉnÉl fÉËnÉtÉªk ËÃ¦l.fÉ.bÉt
<bigcalm> IPA wasn't developed in India. It started in England as a type of ale that would survive the journey to India
<bigcalm> I think
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: most curries are more British than Indian too :P
<bigcalm> Hehe, good point
<bigcalm> Is it beer o'clock yet?
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> :D
<bigcalm> \o/
<MartijnVdS> http://isittimeforbeeryet.com/
<brobostigon> lol.
<bigcalm> Oh, the weekend
<MartijnVdS> yeah, strange people ;)
<bigcalm> After the lovely days of cool rain, it's gone back to being hot and muggy
<bigcalm> Boo weather
<brobostigon> more rian tmrw and saturday.
<brobostigon> rain*
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yeah, 33Â°C here today
<brobostigon> 28c right now.
<dwatkins> nice and cool here in Edinburgh, a little rain but hopefully not enough to make the canal path dangerous on the way home.
<davmor2> nice and cool in my airconed home office :)
<mgdm> it was chucking it down earlier, now it's merely drizzling here in Glasgow
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: best weather you've had all year?
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: No, we had about a month of mid-to-late twenties and clear skies until today
<MooDoo> it's boiling here
<Laney> yeah isn't it just
<Laney> like 30Â°
<MooDoo> .weather nottingham
<MooDoo> @weather
<MooDoo> rats you don't have that bot here lol
<MooDoo> 29.4 in nottingham
<arc__> hello i need some help in ubuntu
<MooDoo> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<arc__> ok here it is i need to make a win xp usb in ubuntu
<arc__> my dvd drive is dead
<MooDoo> not with you....you need to make a win xp boot usb stick?
<MooDoo> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/10/create-bootable-windows-7-usb-drive.html
<MooDoo> this might be better
<MooDoo> http://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/winusb-create-bootable-windows-installer-usb-in-ubuntu-linux/
<arc__> ok i will have a look
<dwatkins> neat, didn't know you could do that, MooDoo
<arc__> how do i get the latest unetbootin
<arc__> via terminal
<neuro> http://securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/56784044470/script-kiddie-tries-to-crack-a-system-while-the
<arc__> ok i have upgareded it
<MooDoo> arc__: antother better one I think - http://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/winusb-create-bootable-windows-installer-usb-in-ubuntu-linux/
<arc__> do you guys know of any other useful related tools
<mgdm> neuro: heh
<arc__> it is the same one as before MooDoo
<MooDoo> oh doh! lol
<dwatkins> what Ubuntu version are you running, arc__?
<arc__> 12.04.1
<arc__> lst
<arc__> lts
<arc__> i am so gullable
<arc__> i am so gullible (spelling)
<dwatkins> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/unetbootin - highest version for Precise seems to be 565-3, and it's what installs on my server which runs Precise.
<dwatkins> Precise=12.04
<arc__> i have tried using it to make a xp usb but it does not work
<dwatkins> what kind of error do you get, arc__ ?
<dwatkins> also, which procedure did you follow? The first two links are for Windows 7 (or Vista)
<neuro> 20ÂºC here, suckers, hahaha
<neuro> i may have to put a jumper on soon!
<arc__> it has only one boot option and it  is Default and that just goes back to the boot loader
<davmor2> neuro: I can have it as low as 14 I think,  but am curently at a very pleasant 25 :)
<neuro> aircon?
<davmor2> neuro: yeap
<arc__> I am now trying  WinUSB
<neuro> *envy*
<dwatkins> arc__: I don't know it's even possible to boot XP from CD without using 3rd party software.
<arc__> i have the .iso
<davmor2> neuro: in my home office :)
<dwatkins> sorry, I mean boot from USB
<dwatkins> having the ISO might not be enough, sadly
<arc__> i have done it in xp before
<neuro> davmor2: $envy++
<arc__> it makes the install really fast
<neuro> i hope we're not discussing using pirated software in here ...
<arc__> nope my copy of my real xp disk for my own use
<arc__> only !
<arc__> apple lets you copy your os disk once for a backup
<neuro> you bought a retail copy of XP?
<davmor2> neuro: I got it for our old flat the one summer when we were melting it was that hot.  So got it pretty cheap, and it works a charm :)
<arc__> yes long a ago
<neuro> davmor2: i may look into that for next summer if it ends up being anything like this one
<neuro> that's the one thing i miss working from home, not having a nice climate controlled office to work in
<davmor2> neuro: no don't look into in the winter when they are silly money :0
<davmor2> :)
<neuro> well that and the free tea/coffee/fizzy pop
<neuro> davmor2: yeah that's what i meant ;)
<arc__> thought MS should make a open sourced copy of xp the best windows's os ever
 * neuro giggles
<neuro> XP?
<neuro> Best?
<popey> i should get my air con thing out
<arc__> It is the best after Ubuntu
<neuro> popey: you just keep your thing to yourse... oh air con thing, OK
<neuro> XP was a total mess
<arc__> no
<davmor2> arc__: I think you'll find Ubuntu isn't made by microsoft ;)
<arc__> vista was a total mess
<neuro> awful drivers, terrible default UI
<arc__> I know that davmor2
<neuro> XP is probably more responsible for the rise of Ubuntu, Fedora, etc than anything else
<neuro> Windows 2000 and Windows 7 are the only really good OSes Microsoft have released in the last 15 years
<neuro> and I use the term "good" rather loosely
<arc__> Win 2000 don't make me laugh
<neuro> since OS X and any decent Linux distro will whip Window's hide even on their worst days
<arc__> OSX don't make me laugh
<arc__> Win 7 is ok
<neuro> i knew there was a reason i'd stopped talking to this guy
<neuro> go on, please do share your insights as to why Windows 2000 and OS X won't make you laugh
<arc__> this guy has a nick name
<neuro> i'm genuinely interested
<neuro> given what I presume are your years of professional experience in the IT field
<arc__> OSX had no classic enviroment support to run old programs that i loved to use
<neuro> yes it did
<arc__> Like the Mac G5
<dwatkins> It did, arc__ - they stopped supporting the ancient "Classic" envirnment two versions ago, though.
<neuro> until Apple decided it was not commercially viable to continue supporting classic apps
<dwatkins> as neuro says
<arc__> NO 10.5.8 did not
<neuro> the same way as Apple dropped support for PPC OS X apps
<neuro> 10.5 might not have
<neuro> but that's not what you said
<dwatkins> 10.5.8 did not what?
<arc__> NO the Classic enviro was not supported on the G5 all together
<dwatkins> and on what architecture?
<arc__> PPC
<arc__> The G5 Only PPC
<neuro> i think what you're trying to say is that you couldn't buy a G5 with classic preinstalled
<arc__>  No i have tried alot i have 2 G5's
<neuro> anyway, most mac users desperate to run classic apps just install sheepshaver
<dwatkins> Classic is PPC, if I understand correctly, so the G5 supports PPC natively, I assume.
<neuro> Apple routinely deprecate support for earlier platforms, they have a policy of looking forward rather than looking back
<neuro> dwatkins: G5 was the last PowerPC CPU Apple used
<arc__> But the best PPC Ever made
<dwatkins> probably, since it was the last ;)
<neuro> probably the most powerful and full featured PowerPC based Mac ever released, sure
<neuro> but the G5 has been outclassed by more recent PPC CPUs
<neuro> e.g. Cell
<dwatkins> The SGI Tezro was the most powerful MIPS-based machine they made, but it was also the last.
 * neuro waves at the PS3 and Xbox 360
<arc__> Some programs resently supported ppc with universal binary
<dwatkins> yes, universal was useful for the transition.
<ormiret> does IBM still make PPC servers?
<neuro> they still make PowerPC CPUs, yeah
<neuro> mostly for SoC stuff
<neuro> not sure about servers any more
<arc__> Yes ps3 and the 360 have ppc cpu's but they where not computers
<neuro> depends on your definition of "computer"
<neuro> :)
<arc__> how do you define it then
<waveform> ormiret, yup - the pSeries (servers) and zSeries (mainframes) both use power arch
<neuro> an electronic device with a central microprocessor, random access memory, storage and input/output ports
<arc__> i need to reboot to install the epic MS OS XP PRO SP3
<neuro> waveform: still? jeez
<neuro> there are PowerPCs running the three Mars rovers :)
<dwatkins> well if it's robust, why not? :)
<neuro> totally
<arc__> Thinking about OSX it is cheaper to install then any MS OS
<neuro> curiosity is using a hardened 750, I think
<dwatkins> arc__: are you just trolling, or do you have a point to make, please?
<waveform> neuro, yeah - they even sell a few now and then :)
<neuro> aha, was right
<neuro> BAE make them
<dwatkins> There are merits and disadvantages to each operating system, and everyone has different opinions.
<neuro> RAD750
<arc__> Thanz for the info for the WinUSB program
<arc__> dwatkins:Yeah you are right
<neuro> this thing is a beast
<neuro> "can withstand 100,000 rads"
<neuro> $200K cost stock for the CPU and mobo
<neuro> plus or minus variances for customer requirements and quantities ordered
<neuro> MRO and LRO use them too
<arc__> My argument for Mac's got me a A*
<neuro> argument *for*?
<arc__> Why Mac's are bad
<neuro> that's not "for", that's "against"
<neuro> and there's no apostrophe in plurals
<neuro> <- grammar geek
<davmor2> Argument overruled F
<neuro> lol
<arc__> my fake statistics 1 in 3 people make the fatal decision of buying a Mac
<neuro> wut?
<arc__> Any they are fired because they can't use Windows programs
<neuro> what are you talking about?
<popey> FATAL?
<mgdm> I don't need or want any Windows programs to do my job \o/
<neuro> mgdm: \m/
 * neuro glares at vSphere
<arc__> you people are slow
<neuro> ah, the insults begin
<mgdm> (This message brought to you by tmux, mosh, irssi, and Mac OS X)
<neuro> tmux?
<mgdm> (oh, and Ubuntu)
 * neuro googles
<neuro> nice save
<arc__> But the Mac G5 is a good editing rig
<mgdm> neuro: like screen but moar better
<neuro> woah
<arc__> moar ?
<neuro> interesting
<mgdm> neuro: also the integration with iTerm2 is pretty neat
<neuro> i really really really should use iTerm 2
<neuro> but i'm still stuck in stock Terminal.app land
<mgdm> neuro: so you can have iTerm2 have split windows that are actually tmux panes underneath
<neuro> i have 3 windows open right now, 5 tabs each
<MattJ> mgdm, off the top of your head, do you know how to get the Ctrl-a,Ctrl-a behaviour in tmux?
<neuro> i'm an idiot
<neuro> hehe :)
<mgdm> and detach and reattach and all that
<neuro> MattJ: wouldn't that just be a screen-ism?
<neuro> for compatibility and all taht?
<mgdm> MattJ: As in remap Ctrl-b to Ctrl-a? Or have Ctrl-a send an actual Ctrl-a?
<MattJ> mgdm, nope, in screen it toggles between the current and previous window
<mgdm> ahhh
<mgdm> Afraid not
<MattJ> or is there an equivalent easier shortcut in tmux that I haven't found?
<MattJ> :(
<popey> i use byobu
<popey> which uses tmux now
<arc__> WinUSB failed Bootmgr is missing
<popey> and uses the same keyboard shortcuts as screen
<MattJ> popey, since when?
<popey> after 12.04
<MattJ> Inclusive?
<davmor2> MattJ: set the preferred to tmux
<popey> thats not what after means â»
<mgdm> MattJ: http://superuser.com/questions/429558/how-to-switch-between-two-latest-windows-in-tmux
<MattJ> popey, just checking :)
<MattJ> Now I feel guilty for making someone google for me
<popey> well, my vps still uses screen and thats 12.04
<MattJ> mgdm, excellent, thanks :)
<davmor2> popey: you can set the default to be tmux,  currently it installs and runs screen you change the backend let me see if I remember how
<davmor2> MattJ: ^ too
<popey> i am fine with screen
<mgdm> On a related topic, I'm not quite sure if I've got across how cool mosh is
<MattJ> I work with someone who won't use byobu specifically because it doesn't use tmux, so this is useful
<popey> heh
<MattJ> mgdm, I'm concerned about security :/
<popey> i like mosh too
<davmor2> MattJ, popey: byobu-select-backend select tmux restart the session
<popey> security of mosh?
<MattJ> Yes
<MattJ> davmor2, thanks!
<popey> its ssh underneath
<mgdm> well... it is to start with, but the communication after that is something else, isn't it?
<davmor2> popey: mosh to me means loud music and banging head so it would be secure whose gonna mess with that ;)
<mgdm> Anyway - I use it to hop to my VM to use IRC - I've not installed it on anything production yet
<daftykins> what's different about it over SSH?
<popey> it's more resilient to crappy connections
<neuro> mgdm: i need to sort my tabs out: http://bit.ly/1chvf17 :)
<popey> so ideal for mobile / 3g
<popey> and crap wifi
<mgdm> You can use your laptop somewhere on wifi, close it, go home, open it again on different wifi and have your connections resume
<popey> yeah, thats nice too
<daftykins> neuro: lmao
<neuro> i assume you're laughing at my chrome tabs ;)
<mgdm> neuro: holy moly
<neuro> aye :)
<bigcalm> I'm wondering what the background image is
<dwatkins> neuro: that's quite impressive; I try to keep at least my icons visible - I use CloudTab to save them all ocvcasionally, in case I lose any/all my tabs.
<neuro> bigcalm: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sorio1q5fx7trlv/%5Benterprise%5D%20Kate%20Beckinsale.jpg
<neuro> dwatkins: yeah, i like the idea of seeing the icons too
<dwatkins> thankfully safe for work
<neuro> doesn't always work like that!
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Nice eyes
<dwatkins> neuro: yeah, sometimes they just go crazy, yeah
<neuro> i may be migrating wallpaper from kate beckinsale to olivia wilde at some point
<neuro> need to properly plan out the transition
<daftykins> ol' stick insect
<daftykins> women as wallpapers - so wrong
<bigcalm> Variety takes care of background for me. Right now it's http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1666212
<neuro> it's my only vice
<neuro> well, that and Hell's Kitchen
<popey> \o/ variety
<popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/40645538@N00/3887481731 is my current wallpaper
<popey> completely random
<dwatkins> mine is still the TARDIS in a forest: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2ac0yHvvu1rrm5udo1_500.jpg
 * mgdm likes simpledesktops.com
<neuro> bigcalm: you have made a new friend today, by linking to wallbase ;)
<bigcalm> Hehe
<dwatkins> I'm a little disappointed when I look on wallbase that it doesn't give credit to the original artist.
<daftykins> hrmm you can't browse by resolution can you
<daftykins> boooo
<daftykins> i like grabbing images that work across my twin screens
<daftykins> hence interfacelift.com was my old fave
<bigcalm> I would love to use some of my old wallpapers, but I don't have the right monitors any more: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/sets/72057594070877691/
<neuro> HOLY MOTHER OF GOD
<neuro> ok, can't link to THAT
<neuro> woof
<neuro> sorry
<daftykins> down boy!
<bigcalm> Heh
<neuro> i clicked on "sketchy" purity
<daftykins> 3840x1200 is my target here
<bigcalm> neuro: I'm sure you could paste it to #lugradio :)
<neuro> maybe i will and maybe i won't
<daftykins> http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/D47cd523/03320_craterlake_3840x1200.jpg
<daftykins> there's a nice one
<neuro> looks a bit ... oversaturated?
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> also the main point of the image is a little island inside said lake, which is cropped in that view XD
<bigcalm> Over exposed is what I'd say
<bigcalm> Nice otherwise
<daftykins> my we are a judgmental lot
<bigcalm> Hehe, sorry
<bigcalm> I like photography
<bigcalm> One could tweak the levels
<mungbean> still no $600 phones?
<popey> they were on day 1
<mungbean> and look how popular they were...
<diddledan> hmm, still only on 7.76m
<neuro> the slowdown continueth
<neuro> they're $3m off the required pace now :(
<mgdm> it's looking a bit asymptotic, eh :/
<neuro> hmm
<neuro> t-shirts and free lastpass premium subs now
<neuro> the lastpass sub thing, fair enough
<neuro> that's a cost that can be potentially borne by lastpass as they may gain customers in may 2015 from people happy to pay to continue their subs
<neuro> but the t-shirts are stupid
<neuro> "The Ubuntu Edge is an exclusive production run, available only through Indiegogo. All of the funding we receive goes directly towards producing the device for expected delivery in May 2014."
<neuro> except for the money we'll need to use to make t-shirts
<neuro> this has a nice graph showing the pledge trough, which the edge is firmly in right now
<neuro> http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/trends-in-pricing-and-duration
<diddledan> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/31/prism_put_in_the_shade_by_leak_about_even_more_powerful_snoop_tool/
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: also, http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/08/gone-in-30-seconds-new-attack-plucks-secrets-from-https-protected-pages/
<Songtao> Hi guys, maybe this is not right channel to ask, but everyone know about soap server request/response prefix ? how to change from soap-env to soap ? like the request or response I get always use <soap-env:body> but I want to change it to <soap:body>.  there is no soap irc channel. any help?
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: SOAP is a very well-defined protocol :)
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: which language are you using? You should probably use a library to decode it
<Songtao> php
<MartijnVdS> http://php.net/manual/en/book.soap.php
<bigcalm> +1
<bigcalm> I wouldn't want to deal with soap at a raw level
<Songtao> MartijinVds, thanks for your reply, I use php-soap write a soap server, but the name prefix always like <soap-env:body>, is there any way I can change it to <soap:body>
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: yes, that's plain XML -- use a different xmlns
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: It's probably best to learn more about XML and SOAP basics first, before writing your own SOAP server :)
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: SOAP server libraries already exist, it's often better to use those.
<MartijnVdS> (actually, it's almsot always better to use an existing library)
<Songtao> I am, I am using php-soap. I difined
<Songtao>         xmlns:wsoap='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/soap/'
<Songtao>         xmlns:soap='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/'
<Songtao> but I do not know why, the request or the response, auto change it to  xmlns:soap-env='http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/'
<daftykins> Songtao: you just got assistance and yet you're repeating your question? is something wrong?
<Songtao> I mean I defined in the server.wsdl file
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: if you're using a proper XML parser and generator, the namespace bit does not matter.
<MartijnVdS> Songtao: it could be "fnskjfsndkfn" and it would still work just fine
<Songtao> MartijinVds, thanks for your help.
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: bingo!
<diddledan> fnskjfsndkfn was just what I needed
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: a name for your next kid?
<diddledan> no, my kid is going to follow the xkcd and be called "'; DROP ALL tables FROM students;"
<daftykins> little billy tables
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> that's the one :-p
<daftykins> that one did amuse
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: new password then?
<diddledan> better billy tables than billy no-mates
<neuro> bobby tables
<popey> also Null
<daftykins> close enough
<popey> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4456438/how-can-i-pass-the-string-null-through-wsdl-soap-from-as3-to-coldfusion-web?rq=1
<neuro> :)
<popey> "We have an employee whose last name is Null"
<daftykins> hrmm what does it mean when google results are all purple and dull as if you've visited them all before but clearly haven't 0o
<MartijnVdS> popey: cool :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: you need to try reddit.com/new instead ;)
<daftykins> ?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: oh that's where redditors go if all links on the home page are purple :)
<popey> â»
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i'll never get that minute of my life back :(
<diddledan> daftykins: just get on a plane and travel fast enough that when you get back everyone else is 1 minute older than you and bob's your uncle
<MartijnVdS> bobby tables?
<diddledan> yeah, him
<daftykins> you'd have to superman it to be younger than bobby tables
<neuro> MartijnVdS: http://xkcd.com/327/
<MartijnVdS> neuro: I know, I was referring to "bob's your uncle"
<neuro> bob's your mother's brother
<MartijnVdS> or your father's
<MartijnVdS> you could also expand "bob" to "robert"
<neuro> mine sounds better, onomatopoeiatically speaking
<MartijnVdS> robert's your mother's brother
<diddledan> I'm my brother's father's son
<neuro> "Her daughter is named Help I'm trapped in a driver's license factory."
<neuro> hehe
<diddledan> lol
<neuro> xkcd alt tags ftw
<DJones> Ok, BT Broadband support have just won the advice of decade award, Dad was on the phone to them trying to get a fault diagnosed, they said have you run the antivirus software recently to rule that out, its not installed, ok install it, I'm on a Ubuntu laptop, Oh.. We know about that, you can install the antivirus software using wine..........
<webpigeon> x.x
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<diddledan> besides the stupidity of the request, wine is very unlikely able to run an av package designed for windows because it doesn't provide the kernel-level hooks
<DJones> diddledan: Thats putting it politely :)
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> DJones: sounds great
<daftykins> i don't even think it would've been safe to say Linux was in use 'cause they could probably pull one of their classic "sorry that's not supported on this service" lines
<bubu> hey guys, I have a file like a,b,c,d,e,f etc. How can I create a new line per item and delete commas?
<bubu> so just a long column
<DJones> daftykins: They already know it is, last time he had a problem I ended up ringing for him & went through it with BT, in the end I pointed out that I couldn't connect with an android phone and windows phone and ended up getting put through to supervisor, and then to the manager above them
<bubu> nvm got it :P
<popey> bubu: cat file | tr , \n
<bubu> done in ruby!
<popey> haha
<bubu> im an ops guy and my ruby is now better than my bash
<bubu> lol
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> bubu: how's your Perl?
<bubu> meh, non existant
<bubu> work in a ruby house though
<daftykins> DJones: were they even any better? :)
<MartijnVdS> not a true ops guy :P
<bubu> hah
<bubu> I've made my own graphite dashboards!
<bubu> < ops guy
<bubu> :]
<daftykins> drawing in pencil on paper doesn't count!
<bubu> pfft
<bubu> :p
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: hardcore ops 8-)
<DJones> daftykins: Eventually at the manager, probably spent an hour talking to him, he said he ran freebsd at home
<MartijnVdS> bubu: I'm a programmer at a perl shop, and our ops people know as much ruby as perl (because puppet)
<ali1234> isn't ruby just a dialect of perl anyway?
<daftykins> DJones: \o/ what was the actual issue? router/line sync troubles? :D
<DJones> daftykins: Dad got a replacement homehub sent out in about 2 days
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's the evil child of python, perl and php
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure ruby has nothing at all to do with php
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: its unicode support
<DJones> daftykins: Faulty router, didn't work out what the fault was, they just replaced it
<ali1234> what about it?
<daftykins> DJones: ah-har
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's almost as good as PHP's unicode support
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: unless they fixed that since I last looked
<ali1234> that's like saying runy's syntax is almost as "good" as perl's
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but it is :)
<bubu> MartijnVdS: < chef
<bubu> so it's all ruby
<bubu> ruby has so many rubyisms though, cant think of anything you can do in perl that cant in ruby
<bubu> but just a bit prettier ;)
<ali1234> in ruby you can't redefine the entire language to be whatever you want
<bubu> you dont have to.
<ali1234> you don't have to in any language
<ali1234> perl programmers just enjoy being obscure
<bubu> hah
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: hey at least it's not Perl 6
<popey> at our lug someone gave a talk about perl, it was video'ed and put online, and was the most popular video we'd ever made
<daftykins> due to anything specific?
<MartijnVdS> popey: the Perl community has some great speakers :)
<popey> "Introduction to Perl: The friendly programming language"
<MartijnVdS> popey: I've been to several YAPC::Europes
<ali1234> hahahAHAHAhahHAH
<popey> you'll find it via google
<popey> blimey, 2006
<popey> time flies
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> why do perl guys love the Yet Another X Y Z style of naming?
<bubu> perl is a great language
<diddledan> YAML, anyone?
<bubu> just got into development and ruby is all I need
<bubu> (at the mo anyway)
<ali1234> perl is the worst language except for the ones which were specifically designed to be as bad as possible
<diddledan> YAST (any ex-suse users?)
<MartijnVdS> *shudde*
<MartijnVdS> r
<diddledan> ali1234: whitespace
<ali1234> "what is whitespace" - perl programmer
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I don't know.. the community has been getting better at writing readable/maintainable code in the last few years
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not Matt's Script Archive anymore
<diddledan> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
<ali1234> diddledan: yeah, that's a joke language, like intercal and bf
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: https://metacpan.org/module/Acme::Bleach (the "Acme::" namespace is for non-serious/play modules)
<ali1234> i don't count those when i say perl is the worst
<daftykins> popey: he says Perl 6 is going to arrive when Duke Nukem Forever and Windows Vista do!
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: have you written shell scripts?
<ali1234> yes
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'd argue sh is worse than perl
<ali1234> i would argue it's slightly better
<ali1234> because unlike perl, it doesn't have the whole concept of "it's a really good idea to redefine large parts of the language as you see fit in every program"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Uh.. because that's not how most perl programs I know work?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I haven't redefined any chunk of the language in a serious project?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: can you give an example?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> if you want to have functions in your program that take more than one argument, you have to redefine the language
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: oh?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sub foo { my ($bar, $baz) = @_; }
<MartijnVdS> done!
<ali1234> that is taking one argument
<MartijnVdS> no.. you call that as: foo(1, 2);
<ali1234> it's still taking one argument
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I count two?
<diddledan> I think it's a case that you're both correct
<diddledan> you call it with two args, but it passes one arg
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: well, it passes one list of arguments
<ali1234> bingo
<diddledan> o_O http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aerocool-Strike-X-Frame-E-ATX-0-7mm/dp/B005ZV3MBS/ref=sr_1_35?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1375381509&sr=1-35&keywords=gaming+pc+cases
<MartijnVdS> but that's just how you call things.. I don't see what's wrong with it
<diddledan> someone just sent me that link in a different network
<MartijnVdS> Everyone seems to be fine with it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: whoa
<ali1234> i'm not
<daftykins> diddledan: seems more like a benchmarker's testbed
<ali1234> further more while your example looks like a standard function definition to someone unfamiliar with perl, it's not...
<ali1234> it's actually part of the code
<ali1234> the function can later on do other things with @_
<ali1234> this is awful
<ali1234> there's no way to see the call signature of a function
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's flexible.
<ali1234> unless you redefine the language so that there is
<ali1234> but then it's not really perl any more
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: except it is, because you're using published APIs to do it
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but the problem is perl is so flexible you can turn it into any other language you want
<ali1234> including some really stupid ones, and some one that already exist
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: though source filters (the old old way to achieve that) are frowned upon
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: new ones hack the op tree
<diddledan> can I make php in it :-p
<ali1234> i don't see why anyone would want this
<ali1234> just make one language that is actually good
<MartijnVdS> https://metacpan.org/module/MooseX::Declare
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: \o/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's a consensus thing, about which modules are "good".
<ali1234> the answer is "none of them, because they are all written in perl"
<diddledan> I wonder if native-perl-based execution of php syntax through redefining the language would be faster than php itself?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: now you're just being harsh for no reason :)
<ali1234> diddledan: a perl developer claimed that the perl interpreter could run python faster than python, he turned out to be wrong
<daftykins> he does that
<diddledan> does perl do JIT these days, or is it still entirely interpreted?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: People still write software in the language, and the community around it is great.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: At least it's not PHP :P
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it does what it's done for ages: a "compile" run at the start, then some statements ("require") that load more code, trigger a compile of that code before execution
<ali1234> php is better than perl, because in php there's one bad way to do everything, instead of an unlimted number of bad ways
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: There's more than one way to mess up PHP, believe me.
<ali1234> but you have to try pretty hard to invent new ones
<MartijnVdS> also.. it always expecting to be on the web is a bit annoying
<MartijnVdS> even if you run the command-line version
<ali1234> yeah that is weird
<ali1234> i'll give you that one
<diddledan> ali1234: what's your poison of choice? caveat: I work in PHP for my living but I'm always open to new ideas
<MartijnVdS> "We're general-purpose now. Ish."
<ali1234> diddledan: python
<MartijnVdS> Python++
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Old PEP-8 or new PEP-8?
<diddledan> python seems to have a very large momentum
<MartijnVdS> http://hg.python.org/peps/rev/fb24c80e9afb
<ali1234> i dunno, what's the difference?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^
<diddledan> my impression is I should learn it even if just to say me too
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: DO IT DO IT :P
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's a very clean language
<MartijnVdS> but the first few projects you publish will be shouted at for not being pythonic enough
<ali1234> i have pretty much switched to always indenting with spaces now
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> tabs ftw
<ali1234> not just python, everything
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I guess you're one of those people who put the milk in before the tea as well?
<ali1234> if you have to put milk in tea, you should put it in first
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: how'd you guess?!
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: heathen!
<ali1234> unless you like tea with little white lumps in it
<diddledan> ali1234: AMEN!
<MartijnVdS> but.. you can't see how strong the tea is if you put the milk in first
<MartijnVdS> Also, Douglas Adams is right: http://h2g2.com/approved_entry/A61345
<daftykins> give me a black coffee any day
<daftykins> my grandparents used to boil water in the morning, make tea then put it in a thermos
<ali1234> anyway, i don;t really believe in most of these rules
<daftykins> and still be drinking the same first boil come the evening
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: *shudder*
<daftykins> tight does not even begin to describe it
<ali1234> particularly i don't follow the rules about not lining up similar code lines
<ali1234> and i never ever follow the 80 column rule
<neuro> well ...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: at least stick to 132 then
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> stop editing code on a vt100
<popey> haha
<diddledan> lol @ "in England it is generally considered socially incorrect to know stuff or think about things. It's worth bearing this in mind when visiting."
<popey> as an owner of a vt100...
<popey> â»
<ali1234> you finally got one then?
<daftykins> diddledan: i was just grinning at that bit ^_^
<popey> yeah
<MartijnVdS> let me see how long a line actually is on this 2560x1080 screen
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: what font?
<daftykins> size, dpi...
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> comic sans at 28pt
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Monospace 10", 96x96 (xdpyinfo)
<diddledan> :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 70cm real width
<diddledan> I've never worked out just what a pt actually happens to be
<MartijnVdS> well maybe 68 because of bezel
<daftykins> other than meaning 'point' ?
<ali1234> i've got 211 columns with my default font here
<diddledan> daftykins: exactly
<ali1234> i've never needed more than that
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: how do I check easily?
<MartijnVdS>   -geometry 311x32--4+24
<MartijnVdS> xwininfo ftw
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: write the numbers 12345678910111213
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: open gedit, type until you reach the right edge, look at the bottom right of the window
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's 311
<diddledan> then when you get to the end realise you made the mistake of not realising that 11 is two characters and not one
<MartijnVdS> 21:9 baby
<ali1234> yeah that's an interesting aspect ration
<ali1234> 1920x1200 here
<RaycisCharles> 21:9 is a god-awful aspect ratio.
<RaycisCharles> It's unusable.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: it's great to put an editor next to a web browser
<RaycisCharles> Especially as 2560x1080 is a joke.
<MartijnVdS> I like it.
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS you can do that with a 16:9 monitor...
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: but it also fits the unity sidebar on 21:9
<RaycisCharles> lol I forgot I was in #ubuntu-uk.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: also, I like more horizontal space without the second screen (and the "gap" in between)
<daftykins> RaycisCharles: where else do things get like this :'(
<RaycisCharles> Nowhere else on freenode is 21:9 taken seriously.
<RaycisCharles> Maybe they're big in Holland?
<MartijnVdS> they're the same size everywhere
<daftykins> s/size/ratio/
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> i own 16:10 displays on my desktop
<diddledan> 16:10 is just plain nuts for video
<daftykins> my old man calls 'widescreen' - 'shortscreen'
<MartijnVdS> I had a 16:10 before
<daftykins> diddledan: you get the best of both worlds, sensible height windows, then video with bars
<RaycisCharles> Eh, I can live without letterboxing.
<ali1234> 16:10 is perfect for watching 16:9 video on a desktop environment where the damn panels just won't go away (unity)
<RaycisCharles> I have a 27" 2560x1440 monitor.
<RaycisCharles> 16:9
<diddledan> 2.35:1 anamorphic :-p
<RaycisCharles> 2.35:1 is just a really annoying aspect ratio notation.
<daftykins> that's not what letterboxing is
<diddledan> RaycisCharles: it's how they label it on DVD cases
<RaycisCharles> Yes it is...
<RaycisCharles> Don't tell me Mark Shuttleworth has redefined letterboxing?
<daftykins> i wouldn't go by his doctrine
<RaycisCharles> http://e2e.ti.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x0/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/100/8737.LetterBoxing_5F00_UseCases.png
<daftykins> but no, just having bars when playing 16:9 on 16:10 != letterboxing
<daftykins> but anywho, this topic is getting way out of hand
<MartijnVdS> it is
<RaycisCharles> What?
<MartijnVdS> letterboxing = adding black bars
<RaycisCharles> No it's not, I'm going to destroy your argument.
<RaycisCharles> Films can be letterboxed twice.
<daftykins> i must escape to pastures saner
<RaycisCharles> Badly mastered films have a native letterbox and then are letterboxed within the media player.
<RaycisCharles> Yeah way to hit and run - I was about to destroy you.
<ali1234> like on youtube videos that were widescreen before youtube did widescreen
<daftykins> that's a really terrible attitude you have toward conversation there
<neuro> woah woah woah
 * RaycisCharles throws daftykins across the room
<neuro> i step away to finish a DS9 episode and come back to carnage
 * RaycisCharles is pumped up
<RaycisCharles> neuro, which episode?
<neuro> uhhh the paper moon one
<MartijnVdS> !coc | RaycisCharles
<lubotu3> RaycisCharles: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<RaycisCharles> That's a terrible episode.
<neuro> where nog gets over the loss of his leg
<neuro> i quite enjoyed it
<RaycisCharles> MartijnVdS, that's considered spam.
<neuro> no, it's not
<RaycisCharles> Oh, that one.
<RaycisCharles> I thought it was the one where they're in the casino and waste time doing nothing.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: no, it's considered a polite request
<neuro> RaycisCharles: watch this to figure out why 21:9 is cool: https://vimeo.com/68830569
<RaycisCharles> I find it hard to believe that Starfleet couldn't grow legs in the 24th century.
<MartijnVdS> RaycisCharles: please stop bashing other people. If you disagree, you can point that out politely, and with arguments instead of shouting the loudest (which doesn't mean you're right, btw)
<neuro> it's explained why in the episode where he actually loses his leg
<RaycisCharles> I think they just wanted to give somebody a disability.
<RaycisCharles> I know why he lost it.
<neuro> but it's explained in dialogue why they can't just grow a new one
<RaycisCharles> I'm saying that in the 24th century there'd be no such thing as disability.
<RaycisCharles> Oh? I don't remember that.
<neuro> well then
<neuro> RAAR RAAR RAAR ... oh.
<neuro> :)
<RaycisCharles> Maybe losing his leg was just an allegory on the futility of war.
<neuro> or an excuse to show how the war affects those on the ground
<ali1234> they do grow him a new one or whatever. it's explained in the episode that the problem is entirely psychological
<RaycisCharles> Oh yeah.
<neuro> which is why he got an episode devoted to the topic
<RaycisCharles> That's powerful stuff.
<ali1234> it's not a great episode
<RaycisCharles> DS9 had the best character arcs by a mile.
<neuro> Ronald D. Moore, at your service
<RaycisCharles> Well...none of the other Star Treks had any character arcs to speak of.
<ali1234> true
<neuro> not entirely true
<ali1234> it only happened in DS9 because they were blatantly copying B5
<RaycisCharles> Worf becomes lighter and ends up not looking like Predator crossed with a raccoon.
<RaycisCharles> That's like the only significant change in TNG. I don't count Wesley Crusher's migration from rainbow pride uniform to red.
<neuro> worf + kid
<neuro> troi + commander
<neuro> occasional dalliances of picard + beverley
<RaycisCharles> Oh come on, those weren't character arcs.
<ali1234> lolno
<ali1234> none of that stuff ever went anywhere
<neuro> worf + kid certainly was
<RaycisCharles> No it wasn't.
<RaycisCharles> That wasn't an arc...that was a "son hates dad" episode.
<neuro> You're rather difficult to talk to, aren't you?
<RaycisCharles> Well then, let's talk about something other than Star Trek.
<neuro> to be fair, it was you who carried on the star trek talk after i simply mentioned where i'd been
<RaycisCharles> I imagine there's quite an overlap between fans of Star Trek and fans of Debian downstreams.
<neuro> geeks like star trek? THAT'S UNPOSSIBLE!
<ali1234> ya know... voyager had more character development than TNG...
 * neuro points to his federation starship naming convention ...
<neuro> ali1234: what, seven's costume changes? :)
<ali1234> no, not really
<neuro> TWAS A JOKE, SIR!
<neuro> tho the doctor had a pretty varying arc over the years
<ali1234> the doctor mainly
<neuro> the thing that always struck me as completely unreasonable was paris being field promoted to lieutenant, then being busted down to ensign, then repromoted
<ali1234> pretty much entirely really
<neuro> while poor harry was stuck being an ensign for the whole trip
<MartijnVdS> neuro: instead of Kim?
<ali1234> lol
<neuro> MartijnVdS: exactly
<ali1234> yeah well that's because janeway is crazy
 * mgdm attempts to get his YouView box to see more than one mux
<neuro> ugh
<neuro> really?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: great film, that vimeo one :)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: innit?
<neuro> i love movie geek stuff like that
<mgdm> neuro: really?
<neuro> mgdm: unlucky
<neuro> what tx, black hill?
<mgdm> uhm
<mgdm> I think so
<mgdm> 120 channels now, there we go
<neuro> i get epic quality from black hill
<neuro> even though my aerial is in the loft
<mgdm> I think one of my HDMI cables is shielded about as well as the netting you get onions in
<mgdm> because I swapped it and now it's fine
<neuro> i always say uber expensive hdmi cables are a waste of time
<ali1234> there are different types of hdmi cable
<neuro> but Cheap McCheap cables are a waste of time
<neuro> don't spend 500 quid but at the same time don't spend 2 quid
<ali1234> the price doesn't seem to make a difference to whether they will work or not
<mgdm> this wasn't Champion the Wonder Cable cheap, but it wasn't more expensive than about a tenner
<ali1234> it's something to do with wether the cable has the right bits
<neuro> CHAAAAAAAAAMPIOOOOOONNNN ... THE WOOOOOOOOOONDERRRRR CAAAAAAABLE!
<neuro> i totally have that music in my head now
<mgdm> :D
<neuro> mgdm: and for that, i must kill you where you stand
 * neuro worfs up
 * mgdm gets down
<MartijnVdS> jump up jump up & get down
<neuro> lying on the floor will do you no good against my bat'leth!
<mgdm> Anyone stepping to me you'll get burned
<mgdm> 'cos I got lyrics and you ain't got none
<mgdm> so if you come to battle bring a shotgun
<mgdm> Shotgun > bat'leth
<neuro> SoHvaD pagh vljatlh, Human!
<neuro> i don't know what i'm doing
 * mgdm watches neuro chop his own arm off
 * neuro stops before pasting more quotes from Memory Alpha
<neuro> yeah, that would be a strong possibility
<neuro> although i could just grow one back, AM I RIGHT?!
<mgdm> You're probably not right, no
<neuro> :)
<diddledan> good movie aspect ratio discussion that
<neuro> lol, was it? :)
<neuro> all i saw was rage :)
<diddledan> no, I mean the video
<neuro> oh right :)
<neuro> yeah, that's why i linked to it!
<diddledan> in here was nothing but "GRRR BRAINS"
<neuro> GRRARRRR
<diddledan> avatar (movie by james cameron) is going to have 3, count em, THREE sequels that have been planned for 2016, 17 and 18
<neuro> noooooooooo
<diddledan> that's a long time to wait
<neuro> NOT LONG ENOUGH!
<diddledan> didn't like dances with wolves.. in space?
<neuro> some movies just don't need sequels
<neuro> like, can you imagine if they tried to make a sequel to Blade Runne... oh
<diddledan> all three movies are going to be filmed en-masses
<diddledan> masse*
<neuro> back-to-back is i believe the term you're looking for
<diddledan> simultaneously is the  term in the article I'm reading
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Yeah, it's a good thing they never made a sequel to The Matrix
<diddledan> as opposed to 1..2..3.. it's 1..2..3..1..2..3..2..1..
<neuro> simultaneously? wtf
<neuro> cameron is off his had
<neuro> s/had/head/
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: they're bound to revisit the matrix again at some point
<dogmatic69> I just installed qt4 on 12.04 and it does not launch, any ideas?
<dogmatic69> strace shows "recvfrom(11, 0x16bd624, 4096, 0, 0, 0)  = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)"
<dogmatic69> loads of them, every couple seconds. and I even left it running for 1 hour + with no change
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: what's fd 11? check /proc/<pid>/fd/11 (ls -l)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: and/or lsof -p pid
<MartijnVdS> the last one's easier
<dogmatic69> where do i get pid?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ps probably
<dogmatic69> ps qtcreator?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no, ps ax -> look throuhg the list
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: or pgrep qtcreator
<dogmatic69> two have <defunct>
<MartijnVdS> those died and their parent never processed that
<MartijnVdS> "ps fax" will show which is their parent
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/400949056
<MartijnVdS> qtcreator 11060 dogmatic69   11u  unix 0x0000000000000000      0t0    989281 socket
<MartijnVdS> It's a UNIX domain socket
<MartijnVdS> but to what.. no idea
<dogmatic69> :(
<dogmatic69> what is UNIX domain socket?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: man 7 unix
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> does that explain the <defunct>
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> it might explain why it's not receiving anything on that socket though
<MartijnVdS> if it's expecting one of the children to write something to it
<MartijnVdS> it'll never get anything
<mgdm> neuro: I've built stuff for YouView but not actually used one in my own living room yet - it's pretty smooth, actually
<HoT|2fC^> Some hosting companys are rude! I just got 3 Gameservers terminated I asked why they said were no longer hosting games any more LOL so I said ok so I just paid you Â£30 for another month of 3 doom3 gameservers.
<HoT|2fC^> I then got a reply of sorry no refunds :/
<HoT|2fC^> thats odd \o/
<mgdm> that's probably illegal
<daftykins> not if it's in agreed to terms
<daftykins> also, surprising doom3 is still being run :)
<zleap> doom 3 is good
<zleap> scary though esp in a dark room with good speakers
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i remember that from release, yep
<diddledan> right, saucy.. is mir default yet?
<popey> no
<dogmatic69> anyone got a beagle board black?
<diddledan> ok, I'm being bitten by bug #1195509 :-(
<lubotu3> bug 1195509 in Mir "System compositor fails to start - Failed to set the current VT mode: Input/output error (5)" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195509
<diddledan> it dropped back to pure X11
<diddledan> still usable as a system, but I wanted to try mir :-p
<diddledan> http://ubuntu-edge.info/#total 3meelion short of target
<songtao> hello
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-02
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/r1nP2KSpAJxkBohu.large
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> hi popey
<MooDoo> morning popey
<diddledan> morning
<xnox> I like the nice cool, gray cloud, thunderstorm in London at the moment =)
<xnox> so nice and cool =)
<MartijnVdS> Sun and expected 35Â°C here in .NL
<MooDoo> raining here too
<mungbean> just saw somebody watering the plants during a massive downpour
<MooDoo> pmsl
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ...
<mungbean> public sector for you
 * popey boggles at http://www.scribd.com/doc/157407829/Private-Browser-Sponsorship-Details
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> uk.gov should sponsor it. that'll work
<mungbean> Are there any other ways we can sponsor Private Browser?
<mungbean> If you develop a plugin or extension for either Chromium or Firefox please contact us fordetails on having your plugin/extension installed by default
<mungbean> hahaaha-bonk
<MartijnVdS> install ALL of the plugins
 * DJones prepares to to disappointed or elated when they announce the new Doctor Who on Sunday
<mungbean> who do you want? and who we gonna get?
<mungbean> i don't ant the creepy guy who appeared in merlin
<mungbean> in fact i won't watch it at all if he's the one
<MartijnVdS> what if it's Rupert Grint?
<SuperMatt> that would be spectacular
<SuperMatt> I really do rate him as an actor
<mungbean> brian blessed
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that would be.. bombastic
<SuperMatt> much higher than the other two, especially Emma Watson who can only talk by wiggling her eyebrows
<mungbean> i've never seen or watched harrypotter
<mungbean> i know the ginger fellow you mean though
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<DJones> I'd like somebody like James Nesbitt to get the part, he's got the right look of insanity that goes with the best of the doctors
<popey> i would rather it's a relative unknown
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's you, isn't it?
<mungbean> maybe will from inbetweeners would be good ;)
<SuperMatt> argh
<SuperMatt> I hate nesbitt
<mungbean> +1
<mungbean> housewives favourite for some reason
<SuperMatt> he's over used
<DJones> popey: I think it will be somebody fairly unknown, that seems to have worked well with Matt Smith, I'd never heard of him when he got the role
<SuperMatt> came goes for all the other doctors too
<mungbean> colin morgan would be a good un
<SuperMatt> it's pretty much tradition to bring someone out of nowhere
<mungbean> for bvious reasons, you don't wanna stall your career
<SuperMatt> mungbean: the doctor who/merlin fandoms would explode
<SuperMatt> tumblr would melt down
<SuperMatt> yahoo would go out of business
<mungbean> i used to play a game where you guess the moment that merlin would end up with manure on his face in each episode. always happens once
<SuperMatt> there's talk that it might be one of the kids from the latest BT adverts
<mungbean> adverts? what ar they?
<diddledan> it's gotta be a girl, surely? :-p
<SuperMatt> I would *love* for it to be a woman
<mungbean> nope
<SuperMatt> although based on what happened last week, she'd be threatened with rape and murder
<diddledan> o_O
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: uh... wut?
<SuperMatt> A woman petitioned for Jane Austen to be on the next Â£10 note
<SuperMatt> and got *seriously* harassed for it
<mungbean> trolls be trolling
<SuperMatt> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/jul/27/twitter-trolls-threats-bank-notes-austen
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: and that's when you start filing police reports
<SuperMatt> trolls be trolling, but we should be living in a society where no one even considers trolling this because it *should* be normal
<mungbean> i admit i haven't paid any attention to the news for a long time
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_actors_considered_for_the_part_of_the_Doctor
<mungbean> the media highlight stories of their choosing and skew real life
<mungbean> horsemeat thing went really quiet because media people decided it had run its course. i'm sure more companies have found it , but they don't bother reporting it anymore cos its outside of the window
<mungbean> same for measles etc
<mungbean> and you'd think only one little girl has ever gone missing
<diddledan> that'll be Madeleine Mccann then :-p
<dwatkins> A lot of what I see on the news seems to be just sensationalism for the sake of selling papers.
<mungbean> and laziness and bias
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Looking at the wikipedia article, I read it to say that "Roy Kinnear was considering becoming the 12 doctor" I know he uses a time machine but even so, that would have been a stretch
<mungbean> any article written about something i remotely know about seems to be incorrect
<SuperMatt> I enjoyed Russel Brand when he was on some american morning show
 * dwatkins wonders if they've considered a woman for the next Doctor
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: this extends to things you don't know about
<mungbean> hence i extrapolate that to stories i don't know about too
<mungbean> yep
<SuperMatt> saying "stop talking what people are wearing and actually report the news"
<mungbean> and btw notice the guardian are releasing selected NSA slides
<mungbean> they are holding some back for maximum exposure
<mungbean> and others for secrecy/outrage
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: sure, but that's also some insurance for Snowden
<mungbean> nah
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: if they disappear him, they can drop everything now
<dwatkins> I do find it ironic that certain newspapers campaign to stop us from accessing pornographic websites, then dedicate many articles to showing scantily clad celebrities
<MartijnVdS> drop = release all the slides
<SuperMatt> I quite like it though, because you release something saying that's all you know, the NSA respond, and then you use the rest to prove they're lying
<mungbean> but snowden said he could read emails from his desk
<mungbean> but didn't he get the ppt from lax rules on the sharepoint server?
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: did you see the keynote from the NSA general the other day?
<mungbean> so when he said he, he didn't mean he
<MartijnVdS> http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/aug/02/who-next-doctor-who-sunday <-- they have some guesses as well
<SuperMatt> I read a little about it
<popey> Peter Capaldi would be brilliant
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: he talked a lot about accountability, but as some people pointed-out, the court cases in which they obtain authorisation to see people's e-mail etc. are secret
<popey> would just be a shame he can't use the language he used on The Thick of It
<dwatkins> Idris Elba would make a superb Doctor.
<popey> ooh yeah
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: I strongly suggest you grab a copy of The Colbert Report from 31/07, because it *extremely* accurately portrays what is wrong with the NSA and the Bradley Manning trial
<dwatkins> thanks SuperMatt, will read with interest
<SuperMatt> it's a tv show
<dwatkins> oh silly me ;)
 * dwatkins adds the video to his watchlist
 * dwatkins curses American date formats quietly under his breath
<SuperMatt> essentially, because Manning commited "espionage" he must have been working for the enemy. Who benefitted from the intelligence? The American public. Does that make the American public the enemy? Well, the way the NSA are spying them, it sure seems like they are
<dwatkins> hooray for poxies
<dwatkins> *proxies
<SuperMatt> I'm now using the immunicity proxy at home
<MartijnVdS> poxy proxies
<DJones> It probably won't matter who the new doctor is, long time fans will probably hate the new one until the series has been going for a full series and then will realise that it was a good choice
<MooDoo> lol
<mungbean> is it still moffat?
<MooDoo> sounds about right
<dwatkins> From what little detail Gen. Alexander gave at the Blackhat keynote, it seems it should be impossible for the NSA to spy on people without justification, but I suspect there are ways around that.
<dwatkins> DJones: I'm more concerned about the writers, actually - many recent episodes have been quite weak, imho
<MartijnVdS> just say you have justification, then don't actually have it
<mungbean> "people"
<MartijnVdS> I mean, who's checking?
<mungbean> i thought they justified spying on anyone foreign or anyone with contact with foreigners
<mungbean> i.e. us
<MartijnVdS> (or: who does the auditor report to)
<SuperMatt> and then once you have some evidence, you can piece together a case to go all out on them
<DJones> dwatkins: I'd agree with that, I thought the last series was a bit weak
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it's apparently a matter of stopping this by having blocks in the network as well as people being audited and watched
<SuperMatt> and what did they say? they could only trace someone if they were 51% certain they were foreign?
<SuperMatt> which means they could trace me
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: sure, but if the auditor has no incentive to be fair/honest, you can't trust a system like that
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeed, you'd have to trust everyone up the chain
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: and their blocking system, and know it can't be circumvented
<mungbean> i LOLled at a thread on reddit yesterday. somebody got visited by the police because their ex-employer had found fishy stuff in the search history around the time of boston bombing. reddit got the wrong end of stick and spent all night doing google searches thiking the fbi would knock at their door within 20 minutes
<MooDoo> lol
<dwatkins> mungbean: I wondered about that - so it was basically a tip-off because they'd been searching backpacks and pressure cookers from work?
<dwatkins> i.e. employer was overly paranoid and alerted the police
<mungbean> yeah, the guy had recently left their employement and the sysadmin probably was clearing up their pc and found stuff
<mungbean> probably reported it around the time of the bombing
<dwatkins> ...and this is why I use my PC at home as a proxy ;)
<davmor2> Morning all
<mungbean> also depends on the manner in which the guy left their employ
<mungbean> and whether he had a beard
<dwatkins> ah yes, obvious sign etc.
<mungbean> i just received a message from myspace. somebody signed up with my email address.
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Ice Cream Sandwich Day! :-D
<xnox> OMG, friday already?! +) where did the week go.....
<dwatkins> Android 4.0?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: myspace still exists?
<mungbean> their email server does
<mungbean> create filter from message like this...
<mungbean> delete.
 * MartijnVdS waits for the DHL man
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: anything exciting
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: tickets for F1 at Spa
<mungbean> how much are they?
<MartijnVdS> they were â¬130ish when I bought them
<MartijnVdS> I think they might have run out by now
<mungbean> big bucks
<mungbean> for the whole w/end?
<MartijnVdS> yes, including GP2, GP3 and Porche Supercup races
<MartijnVdS> yay, tickets are here
<MooDoo> yay
<brobostigon> woop
<mungbean> what's ionice pri 4?
<mungbean>               The scheduling class. 0 for none, 1 for real time, 2 for best-effort, 3 for idle.
<mungbean> ah, the class is set to none
<mungbean> no all amazon albums are autoripped?
<MartijnVdS> no
<mungbean> swines
<mungbean> the cd i awnt is at home
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: isn't it on spotify or grooveshark?
<mungbean> adverts :(
<MartijnVdS> which album?
<mungbean> i turn the sound down and forget to turn up again
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B002YTZPRS
<mungbean> wasn't that cheap when i bought it :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: well there's bbc iplayer + proms :P
<MartijnVdS> (radio iplayer)
<mungbean> digging out some other stuff instead
<mungbean> ugh i bought joseph's dreamcoat musical for my wife and its on my cloudplayer list :(
<directhex> joseph's dreamcast?
<mungbean> andrew lloyd wiiber
<mungbean> oh..new command for the day. echo $$
<MartijnVdS> pid of current shell
<mungbean> useful for sudo ionice -c3 -p$$
<directhex> new command for the day: LD_SHOW_AUXV=1 /bin/true
<mungbean> what's that?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<directhex> (much more useful on ARM)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: AUXV?
<directhex> AT_HWCAP:    swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3
<directhex> :)
<MartijnVdS> AT_HWCAP:        bfebfbff
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's the specific ARM bits required to run the binary?
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ^
<directhex> MartijnVdS, that's the specific arm capabilities of the platform executing the binary
<directhex> MartijnVdS, it's a much more portable way to detect cpu capabilities than /proc/cpuinfo (/proc/cpuinfo doesn't work in qemu)
<MartijnVdS> directhex: so.. similar to Flags in /proc/cpuinfo ;)
<directhex> /proc/cpuinfo in an arm chroot or qemu generally shows your host cpu's values
<directhex> i.e. values like "sse2" which are meaningless on arm, and no values like "vfpv3" which mean things on arm
<MartijnVdS> really? weird :)
<dwatkins> Does that set the variable then run /bin/true, and the exit code depends on whether the variable could be set or not?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it sets the environment variable just for the execution of /bin/true
<dwatkins> ah ok, just wondered how its output might be anything other than truth
<awilkins> Anyone know the way to remove an icon from the systray in JFace / SWT ?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: there's no way to know what extensions are needed to run a binary, short of disassembling it and looking at what instructions it uses
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: The compiler that made the binary might know which extensions it used, and put it somewhere in the metadata
<directhex> dwatkins, it sets the variable then runs /bin/true. the Linux linker, ld.so, detects that environment variable & spams the values to the screen. you could use *any* executable, really, but /bin/true is minimal enough not to produce its own spew
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: just because the compiler used some set of flags, doesn't mean that it had any effect on the output
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: the compiler knows which instructions it used, right/
<directhex> it's not that simple
<SuperMatt> http://www.olli-ries.com/i-have-to-try-this/
<directhex> let's use Mono as the example (any JITter applies equally, i just know mono internals better)
<SuperMatt> try unity 8 today
<directhex> you might know what flags mono is built with - but which instructions does it emit when executed?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: true..
<ali1234> well a JIT is just going to make it even more complicated
<directhex> http://blog.alexrp.com/2013/07/21/recent-improvements-to-mono-on-arm/ is interesting and related
<ali1234> yeah and then you have executables which have optimized instructions which are protected from being called if the CPU doesn't support it
<ali1234> so really even disassembling isn't enough to know "will the binary run on this cpu"
<ali1234> unless you actually look at the output and determine how it was compiled
<neuro> clearly youtube has detected that i've watched too many videos this morning, so it has decided not to play any more for me
<neuro> the video pages load just fine, but it doesn't play videos any more
<neuro> youtube = skynet
<neuro> the revolution has begun
<mungbean> you on talktalk?
<SuperMatt> argh
<SuperMatt> people shouldn't send emails directly from the camera phone
<neuro> mungbean: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<SuperMatt> someone just sent a 10 meg email to 150 people
<SuperMatt> which means 1.5 gig has just been used
<neuro> not from their phone though
<mungbean> neuro: does it say, "how about a nice game of chess"
<SuperMatt> email is just the worst
<neuro> SuperMatt: you know how email works, right? :)
<SuperMatt> yes, I do
<MooDoo> bit of friday fun people http://regexcrossword.com/
<SuperMatt> it all depends on the config how attachments are stored
<neuro> mungbean: actually, there's a knock at the door, hang on ... ooh, there's an american cop asking me if i've seen some kid
<SuperMatt> but *many* aren't configured to share the attachments
<neuro> SuperMatt: ?
<neuro> you just seem to imply that someone sending a 10 meg email to 150 people has used up 1.5G of bandwidth
<SuperMatt> yes, it had
<SuperMatt> *has
<neuro> yes, that's true in aggregate
<SuperMatt> because everyone downloaded the email
<mungbean> and the contents?
<neuro> oh you mean this is on the same email system/
 * mungbean is confused too
<neuro> i thought you meant some one with a phone had emailed 150 other random people not on the same email system
<mungbean> not everyone downloaded the attachments
<SuperMatt> my gripe is that users are idiots and don't realise why big attachments can be bad
<neuro> yay youtube is playing again
<mungbean> what u watching?
<mungbean> i thouht u were working?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I started with a hard one.. done already
 * mungbean has a week off next week
<mungbean> including no irc
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: we'll miss you!
<mungbean> :P
<mungbean> *may use irc
<mungbean> if get fed up of talking to kids
<mungbean> thats not nice. i mean, if i need more variety
<neuro> i am working but i'm sick of looking at scripts so i took a 20 minute youtube break
<mungbean>  neuro> clearly youtube has detected that i've watched too many videos this morning, so it has decided not to play any more   bigcalm
<mungbean> are you playing loads in parallel?
<neuro> yeah, i'd watched like 4 3 minute videos
<mungbean> i still haven't sorted my nfs server problem :(
<neuro> who are you, my HR manager? :)
 * bigcalm looks in
<mungbean> sorry bigcalm , copy paste fail
<bigcalm> Ah, okay
 * bigcalm looks out
<mungbean> nothing to see here
 * bigcalm watches some YouTube vidoes
<neuro> actually, when i say youtube break, i mean cig break with some youtube :)
<neuro> everyone should be sitting back for a couple of minutes at least every hour anyway
<neuro> sitting in front of a keyboard staring at a screen for 8 hours a day isn't good for you
<mungbean> i find its mostly smokers who sat that
<neuro> um, no
<neuro> i don't mean get up, leave the room
<neuro> i mean sit back, look away from the screen, refocus your eyes on other stuff around you
<mungbean> as a hobby, smoking has got to be one of the least rewarding, judging by cost
<neuro> don't remind me
<mungbean> yeah, i'm in a basement with an upskirt window beside me
<mungbean> sitting around 5ft below ground level
<popey> i have a week off irc next week too
<mungbean> its usually male cyclists and bin men who sem to be presenting their posteriors to me though ;(
<mungbean> gonna try and put the laptop away and build my lancaste
<neuro> hmmm, Ace Combat Infinity, PS3 only, free to play, comes out in September
<neuro> not sure how i feel about that
<neuro> <- Ace Combat geek
<Myrtti> I want a hot tub holiday :-( but life and timing sucks at the moment
<mungbean> i will be mostly gardening and sharing the childcare
<popey> I will mostly be sitting in tapas bars eating tapas and drinking wine and / or beer
<neuro> spain?
<MartijnVdS> popey: Sangria!
<MartijnVdS> popey: (oh wait, you weren't at that proto-UDS ;))
<mungbean> avoid the san miguel
<MartijnVdS> popey: The post-4.10 "UDS" in Mataro was a very sangria-rich experience 8-)
<neuro> estrella dam ftw
<mungbean> actually all spanish beers make my tummy rot
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can order some Dutch ones instead
<MartijnVdS> :P
<popey> specifically this one:- http://bit.ly/16Ml2Up
<awilkins> If I was a Boss, I'd probably buy smokers e-ciggies and ban them from taking incendiary smoke breaks
<MartijnVdS> popey: next to a pharmacy.. to cure the hangover? ;)
<awilkins> Let them argue about that one....
<neuro> that's discriminatory, and thus illegal
<awilkins> Hmm
<awilkins> Maybe just buy them e-cigs and let them use them in the office
<mungbean> its not discriminatory
<mungbean> to ban smoking
<neuro> you'd force people to smoke e-cigs?
<awilkins> No
<mungbean> since he will ban smking for everyone
<MartijnVdS> neuro: no, they can also just sit there not smoking anything
<awilkins> I work for the NHS - we already have rules that our staff are not permitted to smoke in the building, near the building, or when they are visibly identifiable as NHS employees (ie - wearing their badge)
<SuperMatt> I imagine the doctors and nurses don't generally smoke?
<awilkins> Giving them a means of filling their nicotine craving without the distracting and counterproductive breaks seems to be anti-discriminatory
<popey> SuperMatt: of course they do
<SuperMatt> though I'm sure that contractors do
<mungbean> smkoing amonst nursing/doctors is huge
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you'd be surprised
<mungbean> more than other professions
<awilkins> Oh hell, yes, most of the nurses I've dated smoked like chimneys
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> sounds like u get around
<SuperMatt> really? I would have thought seeing cancerous lungs, and people only able to breath with aid, that they would be put off it
<awilkins> In the past
<awilkins> I was a doctor once - I'd say the stress drives you into drinking / smoking more than average
<SuperMatt> oh right
<mungbean> if you've never smoked , i wonder why you'd think you'd need a fag
<awilkins> I've never been a smoker but I have had periods when I'd drink for stress reasons
<neuro> awilkins: you can't ban smokers from taking smoke breaks
<neuro> nor can you ban them from smoking, full stop
<SuperMatt> I was told by my GP once that I should go drinking more
<mungbean> sure you can
<SuperMatt> I had terrible stress headaches
<neuro> what you *can* do is ban smoking *on the premises*
<neuro> e.g. at the front door, on the grounds, etc
<mungbean> "your precribed hours are X" "your break time is Y"
<awilkins> neuro, It's already illegal in the UK to smoke in any working premises
<awilkins> Whether you work there or not
<neuro> awilkins: i didn't say "in"
<mungbean> i worked with somebody that didn't touch a fag all day, then chain smoked at home
<neuro> you can discipline staff for taking excessive breaks
<awilkins> neuro, I know - we can't ban it we just make it very inconvenient
<neuro> but talking about e-cigs is irresponsible
<neuro> especially considering they are potentially unhealthy
<awilkins> I was thinking if you made it easier for them not to have to take a smoke break, that would improve productivity
<neuro> mungbean: i'm kinda like that
<awilkins> They are way less unhealthy than incendiary ones
<SuperMatt> do we have any good studies on that?
<SuperMatt> because I've started to notice *kids* smoking them
<mungbean> why?
<neuro> wtf
<SuperMatt> yeah
<awilkins> No studies. But the majority of carcinogens in burning fags come from the burning process
<SuperMatt> because it's legal for them to do so
<neuro> http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/e-cigarettes-and-vaping.aspx
<neuro> e-cigs are currently unlicensed
<mungbean> does it make you feel nice?
<mungbean> i'm sure other things do too
<mungbean> like riding a bike
<mungbean> and playing xbox
<awilkins> Smoke contains this vast chemical cocktail of nasty things with ring-molecules of carbon in
<awilkins> Nicotine is a neurotoxin, sure, but not a carcinogen
<neuro> SuperMatt: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/Scienceresearch/UCM173250.pdf
<neuro> please, do continue to elucidate on the badness of smoking
<neuro> while i spark up this marlboro gold ...
<mungbean> SuperMatt: so you're suggesting some kids are maybe starting the hobby straight onto e-cigs?
<neuro> hobby?
<mgdm> "hobby", eh
<mungbean> well thats how it starts
<mungbean> its not a habit on your first fag
<mungbean> or the 10th
<awilkins> Hmm, that study is like comparing a study of a clean room to a study of a foundry floor
<mungbean> yes, definitely a hobby
<SuperMatt> mungbean: yup
<mungbean> An activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.
<SuperMatt> now, if that means they go on to real cigaretts, that's a bad thing
<awilkins> They have a nice clean piece of apparatus and use a gas chromatograph... with burning fags they study "tars" - which sounds cleaner....
<neuro> hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
<SuperMatt> if it actually keeps kids off cigarettes, then we have to look at the impact of that
<neuro> mungbean: so you'd call going out to the pub a "hobby"?
<awilkins> The baccy companies have successfully lobbyed the UK to classify the ecigs as medical devices now though
<mungbean> yes, its a pastime
<SuperMatt> anything done recreationally to pass the time is a hobby, I would have thought
<awilkins> That will make them stupidly expensive instead of the current "pretty cheap" compared to fags (mostly because of the tax)
<mungbean> or maybe i'd call it socialising
<awilkins> It's a drug habit
<neuro> i'm smoking by myself, how is it socialising?
<awilkins> A socially accepted one
<mungbean> the pub with friends is socialising
<awilkins> But a drug habit, like ethanol, caffeine
<mungbean> *starting* e-cigs is a hobby
<awilkins> People make their own concoctions for them - that seems rather more hobbyist than buying tobacco
<awilkins> They even make nicotine free ones
<mungbean> smoking never starts as a habit
<awilkins> The psychological component of the act of inhalation etc can't be dismissed
<awilkins> Smoking is sufficiently disgusting that the only sensible explanations of taking it up are peer pressure and nicotine addiction
<mungbean> you could call it a hobby of self-euthanasia ;)
<mungbean> awilkins: but when does nicotine additction start?
<neuro> awilkins: clearly, you're not a smoker
<awilkins> neuro, No, my father was, so I lived with it much of my life
<mungbean> boredom, peer pressure, parental example, rebellion
<awilkins> neuro, So I do know about it being disgusting
 * neuro started smoking to combat stress
<mungbean> how did you know it would help?
<neuro> because i knew a lot of people who smoked
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: it helps non-smokers.. once you're addicted/used to nicotine, it seems to help, but that's because the baseline has moved
<mungbean> who all wanted to give up
<mungbean> but suggested you start anyway?
<neuro> nope
<neuro> no one suggested i start
<mungbean> i know  a few smokers who used to
<mungbean> when smkiong in pubs
<neuro> ah, halcyon days
<mungbean> was allowed, the friend got drunk and wanted a fag.
<mungbean> smoker should say "no you don't smoke you chump"
<mungbean> but nay
<mungbean> and a social smoker is born
<neuro> that's nothing to do with being a smoker
<neuro> that's more to do with being an idiot
<neuro> i never encourage people to smoke
<popey> try to keep my kids away from smokers
<popey> not easy when people in the family smoke
<mungbean> +1 popey
<mungbean> getting smoking out of pubs has helped, although i dislike the guard of honour of smokers outside
<neuro> popey: why keep them away?  yes, when they are smoking, sure, but at any other time?
<mungbean> its also proven that if a parent smokes outside the home only, incidences of glue ear are raised among young children
<mungbean> so dad only smokes in garden - still affects children
<popey> because passive smoke isn't good for them
<neuro> that doesn't really answer my specific question :)
<popey> and people who smoke tend to do that often enough
<popey> gimmie a chance
<neuro> oh ok :)
<popey> so if I go to someone's house who smoke, kids will be around someone who _is_ smoking, or has just finished a cigarette for a fair amount of the time we're there
<popey> people don't stop smoking just because kids are about
<popey> they carry on as usual, maybe outside, maybe not
<ali1234> wat
<popey> even if they're outside, the particulates they breathe out still get breathed out afterwards
<mungbean> just like people who don't think they wear in front of their kids. and you think , hmmm who taught them to talk like that then?
<mungbean> ^wear^swear
<neuro> mungbean: their peers
<neuro> popey: that's generalising to an extent, but i understand
<mungbean> no, its the parents. they just think they don't when they blatantly do
<popey> no. no it isn't
<popey> its experience
<mungbean> particulates also adhere to clothing fibres
<popey> my brother, sister and mother in law all smoke around my kids, and outside the house when we visit
<neuro> popey: you've visited every smoker in the UK? :) I certainly wouldn't smoke around kids
<popey> but they do _still_ smoke
<mungbean> when i buy stuff 2nd hand, i know within 1 second if its been in a smokers house
<popey> dont be daft
<popey> i did say "try"
<neuro> mungbean: my parents very rarely swore in front of me, and chided me strongly when i did; i picked up all my swearing at school
<mungbean> i'm talking about toddlers. using as an example of people who say one thing but rarely keep it up for laziness sake
<popey> the fact that my daughter has a medical condition which can be made significantly worse by 2nd hand smoke makes me somewhat more aware
<mungbean> "i'll just have a fag out of the window"
<mungbean> worst idea ever
<popey> hah, yeah
<popey> standing by the back door because theyt dont want to go in the rain
<popey> as the wind blows the smoke into the house
<mungbean> exactly
<popey> *belm*
<MartijnVdS> or the same in a car
<neuro> popey: i meant you were generalising about the behaviour of smokers in total, not saying your personal experience is wrong or faulty, or that your reaction based on that is wrong
<MartijnVdS> "I can smoke in the car because I opened a window"
<MartijnVdS> uhhhh
<mungbean> in a car is like smoking the fag yourself
<neuro> like i said, i wouldn't smoke around kids
<popey> neuro: we'll agree to disagree then
<popey> my experience tells me the vast majority of smokers are selfish in this regard and refuse to accept any other pov
<mungbean> clothing particles and breath still carry cancerous particulates
<neuro> sure, that just means that unfortunately the people who smoke who you have met are irresponsible selfish gits
<isleofmandan> My first car was a very old second hand Fiesta. I never did get the yellow stickiness off the roof lining and plastic parts from the previous owner. Ewww..
<neuro> ewww
<mungbean> all that tar coating is handy in the rain
<mungbean> smoking is inherently a selfish hobby/habit
<neuro> that has never happened to any of my cars, what on earth did previous owner do, smoke constantly with the windows up?
<isleofmandan> Who knows? Probably. It was very very yuckky...
<neuro> @(
<neuro> :(
<mungbean> neuro: check the insides of your PC. should be stained
<ali1234> the inside of my PC is not stained, nor is my ceiling yellow
<neuro> nope, no stains
<mungbean> PC fans were all stained and stinky when i accidentally bought from a smoker
<ali1234> you have to smoke like 5 packs a day with the windows shut before that happens
<mungbean> clear fan was yellow
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Several PC repair shops in my area have stopped repairing smoker's PCs
<MartijnVdS> because of the gunk
<popey> ali1234: nah, my mum had to wash the net curtains frequently after my bro/sis smoked so much
<popey> they went from yellow to brilliant white
<popey> DAZ!
<popey> etc
<neuro> lol
<popey> and the ceiling had to be painted
<mungbean> they smoked at home?
<popey> Note: not an advert for daz
<popey> years ago, yes
<mungbean> late teenagers?
<popey> talking ~20 years back
<neuro> "Other cleaning products are available."
<popey> yeah, 19-25
<popey> indeed
<mungbean> rebellion is dumb
<mgdm> neuro: remind me to make a "Because of the unique way Ubuntu Edge is funded..." joke later on
<ali1234> you know what else? cigs make far more smoke/stink and mess than rollies
<neuro> mgdm: :D
<neuro> ali1234: i can't do rollups
<neuro> can't roll to save myself
<neuro> and yes, rolling machines bla bla
<neuro> just easier to buy 100 marlboro golds at the w/e and have a big box of cigs handy in the house ;)
<ali1234> 1 roll up = about 0.2 cigs as well
<neuro> yeah
<popey> was funny at UDS copenhagen seeing the combination of real cig smokers with rollys and robo-fags all outside
<ali1234> i'm certain that they make cigarettes huge to sell you more
<popey> some of the robofags smell quite nice
<popey> aq had some that smelled of peach
<neuro> clove cigs freak me out
<neuro> they smell lovely but they taste spectacularly weird
<mungbean> alcopops of the cigarette world?
<popey> I almost considered taking up smoking
<neuro> ha
<popey> (robofags)
<mungbean> jsut eat peach fruitellas
<neuro> then your evolved brain took over from your lizard brain
<popey> hah
<neuro> ali1234: king size are the most i can handle at one time
<neuro> ali1234: if i smoke a superking, my head is reeling by the end
<ali1234> i can't smoke "real" cigarettes at all for the same reason
<MartijnVdS> isn't that the point?
<neuro> the point?
<mungbean> i don't understand why someone wants to feel dizzy
<mungbean> even walking in a crowd makes that happen to me
<neuro> that i want my head to become light and feel nauseous, like i'm about to whitey?
<neuro> no ta
<ali1234> lol whitey
<neuro> i have a low tolerance for that sort of thing, which is why i don't really smoke certain other substances
<popey> thats the only thing I would smoke
<neuro> e.g. the ones readily available in MartijnVdS's neck of the woods
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> worst hobby ever
 * TheOpenSourcerer only smokes cigars either when in pubs or Golf Courses and doesn't smoke around his kids, home, car etc.
<neuro> oh cigars are awesome though
<popey> my dad used to smoke cigars
<TheOpenSourcerer> No nasty checmicals.
<neuro> my dad still does
<popey> and ciggs, lots of
<mungbean> is feeling short of breath
<popey> then he got lung cancer and died
<popey> so now doesnt
<mungbean> my grandfather died 30yrs before his wife
<neuro> well, that would stop him from doing a lot of things, to be fair
<popey> indeed
<popey> no longer eats tapas either
<MartijnVdS> popey: that's actually becoming a euphemism in .nl: "He quit smoking" == "He died."
<popey> ahhh
<popey> nice
<mungbean> my sister quit
<neuro> well, not nice :)
<mungbean> proud of her
<neuro> but interesting
<popey> that tapas bar I lined to earlier, was his fave
<neuro> looks cool
 * mungbean gets sad about his own dad who didn't smoke
 * neuro misses patatas bravas in BCN
<davmor2> popey: you do lines of tapas bars :D
<popey> TOPIC CHANGE!
<popey> So how about that local sports team huh?
<neuro> aunt bessie's roast potatoes plus tesco's bravas sauce isn't quite the same
<mungbean> !lunchtime
<neuro> and calamari ...
<MartijnVdS> popey: you mean the football club that had 5 members banned because they attacked the opposing team after losing a match?
<neuro> cold meats ...
<mungbean> bit of a weird day today
 * neuro wants to go back to barcelona :P
<mungbean> loads of people on hols
<neuro> yeah
<mungbean> no email since 9.53
<popey> reminds me, want to make hassleback potatoes
<neuro> my boss is in ibiza right now
<neuro> popey: knight rider totties?
<popey> hah
<MartijnVdS> neuro: you had this perfect dream?
<neuro> ?
<popey> http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipe/7535/hasselback-potatoes.aspx
<popey> nom
<neuro> woah
<TheOpenSourcerer> 377 for 5. Going to be a draw I reckon.
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Freddie Mercury & Montserrat Caballe - Barcelona; lyrics of
<neuro> MartijnVdS: oh, ok
<neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: are you watching some freakish batball game thing?
<MartijnVdS> Quidditch?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - just bbc updates on the web
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/23542976
<davmor2> popey: surely with the knight rider link those should be hasselhoff-potatoes :)
<neuro> davmor2: welcome to my joke
 * neuro has never understood batball
<popey> lol batball
<mungbean> ok explain me this...on track 9 of an album and no ads yet - spotify
<TheOpenSourcerer> Time to wander into town and get a sarny.
<neuro> the thrower chucks the ball at the man with the stick and it's an over arm under belly king woogly on the sticky wicket leg before wing tum te tum
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: advertisers hate your demographic
<mungbean> its not regular spotify
<davmor2> neuro: it's stickball that the scotts invented but the bunkers and rough is the oppositions hands
<mungbean> but a link from channel4 website to check out the album
<neuro> who are the scotts?
<neuro> are they a family who live near you?
<mungbean> did they do something funky?
<davmor2> neuro: -t
<neuro> :)
<mungbean> https://play.spotify.com/album/5tYmFy0RCba5vUkLFJzaQL
<neuro> robin williams has a great rant about how us scots invented golf, but it's too sweary to repeat any of it here :)
<mungbean> AARRRGH just got an ad
<neuro> THEY'RE LISTENING
<mungbean> scummers
 * neuro doesn't know what these ... "ads" are of which you speak
<neuro> ohhhhhhhhhhh
<neuro> cracking music choice sir
<mungbean> great working music
<davmor2> neuro: Yay I think I saw that, didn't he do part of the routine in Gooooooooooooooooooooooooood Moooooooooooorrrrrrrning Vietnam
<mungbean> or ircing as it has mostly been this morn
<neuro> don't think so
<neuro> was on one of his more recent stand up shows
<neuro> mogwai are generally awesome
<davmor2> neuro: ah no not seen it then
<neuro> davmor2: the youtubes will undoubtedly be able to help you out
<mungbean> which albuim would you recommend for more of the same
<neuro> all of them
<davmor2> neuro: indeed I'll save it for tonight though
<mungbean> all they are slow and chilled/ponderous?
<neuro> pretty much
<mungbean> i also listen to lali puna
<mungbean> in that same vein
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Boards of Canada?
<mungbean> nope but they get recommended to me
<neuro> young team and mr beast are probably the most accessible to be getting on with
<mungbean> ta
<neuro> but to be honest their whole discography pretty much kicks ass
<mungbean> will pick the cheapest ;)
<neuro> :)
<neuro> spotify them!
<mungbean> although may have some gift certs from filling out a survey
<neuro> they have a couple of tracks from mr beast in the miami vice movie
<neuro> they work really well
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Akufen - My Way
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: also, http://open.spotify.com/user/martijnvds/playlist/2UHNlhHRMcziirEn188343  :)
<mungbean> luncheon
<neuro> as much as i like post rock, i never have really made time for boards of canada
<neuro> i really should
<neuro> and godspeed you black emperor
<mungbean> i don't let it dominiate my musical portfolio but that + classical music and piano music (yann tiersen etc) are good for working to
<neuro> i do the same with soundtracks
<neuro> but occasionally i need loud stuff
<neuro> most of the smoothwall commercial website was built thanks to Juno Reactor
<bigcalm> That's a name from the past
<neuro> aye
<bigcalm> I enjoyed their pre-matrix work
<neuro> me too
 * bigcalm digs out the mp3s
<neuro> :)
<Laney> spotify web player borked? :(
<Laney> "Can't connect to Spotify. Trying again now."
<neuro> wfm
<Laney> WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYY
<MartijnVdS> Laney: call your ISP, ask if you can get adult internet instead of the children's playground web
<bigcalm> Heh
<Laney> I want the AOL-style internet back
<jussi> Laney: you just won the internet...
<bigcalm> O M G
<bigcalm> Thought I'd lost my old mp3 collection
<bigcalm> Turns out that it never got moved from my parents' server when I moved out
<neuro> lol
<neuro> ENGAGE THE RSYNCS!
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it's that large pile of vinyl to your left ;)
<neuro> Laney: AOL-style internet?
 * bigcalm starts leeching 58GB
 * neuro tuts
<neuro> bigcalm: good luck with that :)
<bigcalm> neuro: most of that are OGGs from CDs I own
<neuro> i'm trying to figure out how to get 90 gig of zipped log files from here to head office
<neuro> over a 4 meg link
<MartijnVdS> neuro: by waiting
<bigcalm> I think I'll just take a USB HDD with me then next time I visit the parents
<MartijnVdS> neuro: unzip first, then 7zip, then send?
<neuro> s/7zip/bzip2/ yeah
<MartijnVdS> neuro: put on USB disk, drive to head office?
<bigcalm> But, right now, I want my Juno Reactor!
<neuro> but i'll need to throttle it so i don't kill the office
<neuro> MartijnVdS: head office is ~ 400 miles away
<MartijnVdS> neuro: still faster than using wires
<davmor2> neuro: A portable hdd
<neuro> but more hassle
<MartijnVdS> neuro: ROAD TRIP
<jussi> neuro: just keep zipping the zip - it gets smaller everytime, right? :P :P
<neuro> but hassle
<neuro> jussi: never thought of that!!!!
<bigcalm> Send them a HDD to copy onto and have them post it to you
<neuro> bzip2 -9 stuff.log | bzip -9 | bzip -9 | bzip -9 > stuff.log.bz2.bz2.bz2.bz2
<dwatkins> neuro: never underestimate the bandwidth of a $VEHICLE full of $STORAGE_MEDIUM hurtling down the highway - http://what-if.xkcd.com/31/
<neuro> bigcalm: going in the other direction
<neuro> downloaded it from our DR server in the states
<neuro> took an age at about 10Mbps
<bigcalm> Oh, that way around
<dwatkins> how about uploading from your current location, then getting someone or a machine in the office to download it with a throttled connection?
 * bigcalm can't read
<neuro> dwatkins: that would take even longer
<dwatkins> neuro: ah ok, courier time, then I guess
<neuro> but hassle
<neuro> it's not so urgent that it needs a courier
<neuro> it's just historical web log data
<neuro> it definitely won't be 90 gig by the time i'm finished unzipping and bzipping
<dwatkins> 90 GB is almost half my monthly internet usage cap.
 * dwatkins made the mistake of signing-up for a year with IDNet and can't wait until May
<neuro> usage caps, hahahahahaha
<neuro> sorry
<dwatkins> I thought 100 GB would be plenty, but I didn't realise quite how much internets I use.
<dwatkins> yeah, it's amusing, it's also making me curb my internet usage a little.
<bigcalm> 1.5GB of Juno Reactor is being SCPd at 114KB/s - I should have started this in a screen
<dwatkins> I was going to setup a backup script with my brother, but we'll wait until I'm back on unlimited.
<neuro> bigcalm: ;)
<neuro> dwatkins: rsnapshot
<dwatkins> isn't there a way to take the current terminal and move it into a screen session?
<bigcalm> Just sent a "sorry I'm crippling your bandwidth" message to my Dad
<dwatkins> if not, there should be ;)
<neuro> hehe
<dwatkins> nohup or somesuch
<neuro> nohup just shoves a backgrounded task off your terminal
<dwatkins> could you then grab hold of the pts?
<bigcalm> Beyond The Infinite  Luciana            Shango Tour 2001 Tokyo  Transmissions
<bigcalm> Bible Of Dreams      Odyssey 1992-2002  The Remixes
<bigcalm> Labyrinth            Shango             The Singles & EPs
<bigcalm> Oops, sorry
<neuro> nice
<dwatkins> Labyrinth is a great film.
<bigcalm> So it is, not related though
<neuro> i don't appear to have Luciana or the live/remix/singles stuff you have :(
<neuro> but i do have Hotaka
<neuro> the single
<neuro> "I cannot send e mail via my Samsung Note2. It continually fails. The settings I am using are the ones outlined in the manual. It comes back with Server Error."
<neuro> welcome to my afternoon
<dwatkins> joy
<neuro> so tempted just to reply back "eff off, it's friday, go to the pub"
<dwatkins> what manual? if it's the Samsung one, it probably doesn't have anything specific to the company server in it.
<neuro> our company/franchisee operations manual
<neuro> has our email configs in it
<dwatkins> ah ok, like me looking up something in the knowledgebase I assume
<neuro> yeah
<dwatkins> get them to reset their password, that should take a while ;)
<neuro> lol
<dwatkins> It also has the advantage of being a possible solution...
<MartijnVdS> "No, you should change your password *again*. Yes that's the 3rd time in a row. It might work though!"
<MartijnVdS> just cargo-cult along with them
<neuro> i also had a member of staff ask me today what ETA meant
<MartijnVdS> As ASAP as possible?
<neuro> enter your PIN number
<dwatkins> "Please look up the TLA list"
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: well: http://jtv.home.xs4all.nl/gtf/
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: handy
<dwatkins> Oh my goodness, what on earth, be right back, bar-be-queue...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: by launchpad h4x0r https://launchpad.net/~jtv ;)
<dwatkins> for maximum hax
<dwatkins> sorry, h4x
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: well, he used to be a coworker at the previous ISP I worked at ;)
<dwatkins> H4ck the pl4n3t!
<MartijnVdS> d00dz!
<dwatkins> *ahem* please excuse me, I don't know what came over me there.
 * dwatkins reaches for his mug of tea
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you're on IRC, speaking like a h4x0r.. you're living the hollywood dream ;)
<dwatkins> ooh yeah, you knows it
<jussi> my latest drool item... http://is.gd/pwXSg5
 * dwatkins hands jussi a cloth with which to wipe it clean
<jussi> dwatkins: unfortunately I dont own it yet... I just drool over actually owning one
<jussi> :D
<MartijnVdS> too bad it's a sony
<dwatkins> aw shame, looks nice
<jussi> MartijnVdS: why is that?
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Sony build quality tends to be shaky
<neuro> it's a bit crap, says The Verge: http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/4/4395926/sony-vaio-pro-review-were-going-to-war-with-the-macbook-air
<MartijnVdS> neuro: doesn't the verge say that about everything though?
<neuro> nope
<MartijnVdS> only if they're not paid enough?
<popey> the photo on that verge page makes the sony look like plastic crap
<popey> (just like very sony before it)
<neuro> yeah, that's what i thought
<awilkins> The keyboard looks like the point-of-sale terminal keyboards in my local hardware retailer
<popey> https://www.wfh.io/jobs/
<popey> interesting
<popey> remote jobs
<dwatkins> neat
<MooDoo> ooo interesting
 * jussi notes Nomovok is hiring atm...
<mungbean> sounds very russian
<SuperMatt> man, I can't get my head around the byobu documentation. What do I do if I want to creat a session with a particular name?
<dwatkins> can't you name it like with screen's ctrl+a,A ?
<SuperMatt> no, I mean a completely new set of windows
<SuperMatt> so one set for one group of things, and another set for another group of things
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: are you using screen or tmux?
<SuperMatt> tmux, it seems
<mungbean> i got confused looking at all that stuff and just end up using terminal with tabs, and the occasional screen session
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you can use "tmux new" to create a new session
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: or "byobu new":
<MartijnVdS> and "byobu list-sessions" to get a list
<MartijnVdS> via: http://mutelight.org/practical-tmux
<SuperMatt> oh, so it just uses the tmux commands?
<MartijnVdS> unless you set it to use screen instead
<SuperMatt> I thought it always used screen by default, but I guess I was wrong
<MartijnVdS> screen can't do proper unicode 6
<mungbean> "do"?
<mungbean> enter or display
<MartijnVdS> both
<MartijnVdS> it mangles it on both input and output
<MartijnVdS> ð·
<MartijnVdS> tmux can
<SuperMatt> I see
<mungbean> what was that btw
<SuperMatt> well, now I know what to do
<SuperMatt> thanks
<mungbean> the only time i need unicode is when MartijnVdS pastes it
<MartijnVdS> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<mungbean> that works
<MartijnVdS> ð
<mungbean> fail
<popey> â»
<mungbean> work
<popey> yeah the fail one fails for me too
<mungbean> i can handle it
<mungbean> for the sake of not having to learn something new
<mungbean> cos my brain is ageing
<MartijnVdS> Install this in ~/.fonts -- http://archive.org/details/Symbola
<MartijnVdS> that contains all the new-fangled unicode 6 characters
<mungbean> the ttfs?
<mungbean> done, plus fc-cache
<MartijnVdS> may need to restart the app
<mungbean> :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can test here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons#Unicode_characters
<mungbean> i run screen on a remote server :-\
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: sure, but you need to restart the *local* app; also, screen doesn't do Unicode 6
<mungbean> i'll wait till irssi poos itself next
<popey> hah, thats what i do
<mungbean> then i copy paste all the bits i need to do
<mungbean> nicklist screen
<mungbean> colours etc
<mungbean> any amanda/zmanda users?
<mungbean> i'ev inherited a amanda backup srver and a bit lost
<mrparry> #freecad
<mungbean> neuro: i think i prefer the mogwai soundtracks
<mungbean> their albums are a bit shoegazing
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: have you tried my "Chillax" playlist? Or "My Way" by Akufen? :)
<mungbean> am trying the former
<mungbean> the latter n'existe pas sur spotify
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: hmm..
<mungbean> what's the domain name hosting company that sounds like buddha hosting?
<MooDoo> ghandi
<mungbean> thats it lol. thanks
<MooDoo> ghandi.net
<MooDoo> http://en.gandi.net/
<MooDoo> imeant that
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> buddha lol
<livingdaylight> hia
<popey> hello
<KrimZon_2> does anyone know why graphical sudo wouldn't work in ubuntu 12.04 via xrdp? It seems to be asking for passwords in a non-existent terminal instead
<brobostigon> is this gksudo we are talking about ?
<KrimZon_2> not sure
<KrimZon_2> it's whatever gets called when a program wants to escalate privileges
<KrimZon_2> like clicking "Install Updates" in the update manager
<popey> yeah, thats gksudo
<KrimZon_2> i can run it from the terminal, but other programs aren't working properly
<davmor2> popey: isn't it policykit?
<popey> oh, maybe
<davmor2> popey, KrimZon_2: if it is policykit then there might be a policy that blocks it if you aren't on the physical machine,  you could try gksudo update-manager and see if that gets around it, maybe?
<KrimZon_2> how do I edit the policies?
<davmor2> KrimZon_2: no idea
<davmor2> KrimZon_2: I just know that policykit was able to have them which was one reason to use it over gksudo
<davmor2> KrimZon_2: possibly /etc/apparmour or something like that
<daftykins> http://tinypic.com/r/ww15ao/5
<daftykins> that's how to play a stealth game :)
<bigcalm> Silly NPC
<daftykins> :>
<popey> hah
<daftykins> "omg ladders!"
<shauno> hah, nice.  even donkey kong had that figured out
<davmor2> omg snakes we should get them together I bet it would make a smashing game
<daftykins> davmor2: ?
<daftykins> oh - and ladders -_-
<daftykins> shocking :(
<davmor2> daftykins: lol
<daftykins> in other news i'd like to submit this in the most fudged disk competition: http://i.imgur.com/Q3DRt6A.png
<MartijnVdS> oh wow
<MartijnVdS> Backup NOA
<MartijnVdS> NAO
<daftykins> it was one of a pair in a RAID-1'd NAS :)
<daftykins> which itself is a time machine destination
<MartijnVdS> *whistles Dr Who theme*
<daftykins> don't watch it.
<daftykins> don't intend to
<neuro> harsh
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: but you at least know it's about a time-traveling alien, right?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: hence "time machine destination" -> theme song
<daftykins> i had a VHS with the weird underwater fishy lizard looking people attacking John Pertwee as a kid
<daftykins> so yeah, i'm aware of it :)
<MartijnVdS> https://www.trustwave.com/spiderlabs/advisories/TWSL2013-020.txt
<daftykins> O_O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: a bluetooth toilet has a default (guessable) PIN
<MartijnVdS> Much fun to be had!
<daftykins> that would be one devilish neighbour to 1) know your toilet and 2) consume much water
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: yeah, i can read!
<MartijnVdS> I'd toggle the bidet function randomly
<daftykins> erk >_<
<brobostigon> lol
<livingdaylight> anyone care to comment; whether a dedicated graphics card is a good thing in a laptop, rather than an onboard one. Makes the chassis hotter, correct?
<daftykins> depends on how well the thermal solution is
<livingdaylight> I'm looking for a sweet 17" laptop, any recommendations there would be welcome too
<daftykins> +designed
<daftykins> why so big?
<livingdaylight> just want something that size. Desktopish, but on the move
<shauno> horses for courses really.  I like having a real gpu because I do like to play the odd game, and this is my main machine.  but they are going to mean +heat and -battery
<ali1234> get a 15" ultrabook
<ali1234> with optimus graphics
<ali1234> and windows 8
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> fine if you don't want to use a Linux
<ali1234> yeah that's the point
<daftykins> i had a feeling you were going for that, in your underhanded way :>
<ali1234> if you want an actually good laptop with decent battery and a fast gpu you can have it, as long as you don't want to run linux
<livingdaylight> yea, this would run windows (sorry)
<ali1234> i would recommend against the 17" though unless you are a body builder
<ali1234> cos that's not going to be "mobile" otherwise
<livingdaylight> i want the big screen
<ali1234> buy a monitor then
<livingdaylight> mobile in as the home, not for lugging around town
<ali1234> 17" isn't that big. but it sure is heavy
<daftykins> http://www.ebuyer.com/search?a00140=17+to+17.9&cat=10
<livingdaylight> i picked up a couple 17" laptops earlier, a Toshiba Sattelite. Didn't think they were that heavy
<ali1234> how long did you pick them up for?
<livingdaylight> : )
<ali1234> did you sit with it switched on in your lap for 3 hours?
<daftykins> you need to benchpress the laptop for 20 reps
<daftykins> ;)
<livingdaylight> jajajaa
<directhex> wife has a 15.6" gaming laptop
<daftykins> ali1234: who does that :(
<ali1234> not me that's for sure
<livingdaylight> found this gaming laptop 15.6 for under 400 . Looks like great value https://tinyurl.com/q3av5fe
<ali1234> that looks ok
<daftykins> simple i3, not going to be a racer
<ali1234> i wouldn't go bigger than that
<neuro> acer? bleugh
<neuro> i3? bleugh
<ali1234> yeah try to get i5
<daftykins> the HDD will likely be terrible
<neuro> at least
<ali1234> but in the end it's what you can afford
<neuro> "gaming" "laptop" and "under 400", not good things to have in the same sentence
<ali1234> "gaming laptop" is a bit like "racing lawnmower" in my opinion
<neuro> unless that sentence is "i need a machine for gaming, and i sold an old laptop for under 400"
<neuro> :)
<neuro> there totally should be racing lawnmower games
<ali1234> there is at least one
<neuro> someone should give bernie ecclestone a call
<neuro> "bernie, these cars are a bit ... crap now, aren't they? listen ... LAWNMOWERS"
<livingdaylight> i'm not looking to play games on it. Just thought the spec was good for under 400. Yea, I'm  on a budget
<ali1234> there's probably several "lawn mower simulator 2097" games too
<daftykins> neuro: :D
<daftykins> i can only imagine lawnmowers of 2097
 * neuro understands being on a budget
<neuro> but at the same time, if you can put away more pennies
<neuro> save up for a Good laptop
<neuro> rather than a make do one
<daftykins> even a pile of junk would be amazing with an SSD
<neuro> or an Acer
<neuro> because nobody needs to use Acers
<directhex> for Â£400 you#re not getting discrete graphics which are better than intel's i5 graphics
<neuro> unless you're buying second hand
<neuro> in which case you're buying older tech without a warranty
<directhex> livingdaylight, nvidia 710 is much slower than intel
<directhex> not all discrete graphics is actually good
<livingdaylight> I wish laptops would lose the dvd drives. They add unnecessary bulk and weight.
<daftykins> they just sound great because 'nvidia' + big numbers
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: welcome to the "Ultrabook"
<daftykins> they really don't add much weight. but most have dumped them already
<directhex> for nvidia, don't buy anything where the middle digit is less than 6
<neuro> i like them, they come in handy
<livingdaylight> directhex, uhuh... good to know, thx
<directhex> e.g. 660 is fine, 710 is ass
<ali1234> yeah the thing is in a 17" laptop they don't optimize for weight at all, because the thing is already huge anyway
<livingdaylight> MartijnVdS, yea, I wish... still pricey
<neuro> ali1234: lol
<directhex> cheap, light, fast. pick two.
<neuro> ^this
<ali1234> they could put a lightweight slimline dvd drive in it but then half the case would just be empty
<neuro> i went for light and fast
<neuro> which is why my macbook pro cost me 1700 quid
<ali1234> i go for cheap and fast desktop :)
<ali1234> and cheap and light laptop
<neuro> in saying that, s/light/reliable/ is more useful a metric
<neuro> if it happens to be light as well, bonus
<ali1234> i've never really had a problem with reliability
<neuro> livingdaylight: you should look at refurb machines
<neuro> e.g. dell refurb store
<neuro> ho hum
<ali1234> directhex: what about 240/250? mine seems to run any games about as well as could be expected
<directhex> ali1234, that's going back a few years in vintage
<ali1234> yeah it's a few years old now
<ali1234> but it was kind of mid range obviously
<directhex> you can getr away with a worse card, the lower the screen res
<directhex> e.g. wife's laptop is smoother at native res (1366x768) than her desktop at native res (2560x1440)
<ali1234> hmm yeah that sounds about right
<n1md4> hi.  what's ubuntu's package repository url?
<daftykins> there are lots depending on where in the world you are
<daftykins> generally <two letter country code>.archive.ubuntu.com
<n1md4> i'm on ubuntu-uk ... ;)
<n1md4> daftykins: cool, thanks.
<daftykins> trust me that means nothing
<directhex> we get ukrainians in here!
<n1md4> i know, just joking
<directhex> also swedes. goddamn swedes! *shakes fist*
<n1md4> :)
<n1md4> haha
<daftykins> y'know the French telco FR Buoygues has a very quick mirror for me
<n1md4> now now
<diddledan> and dutchlanders
<ali1234> bogies?
 * diddledan eyes MartijnVdS 
<diddledan> and those irish potatoes get everywhere, don't they, shauno ?
<shauno> wut wut
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> dont' you know your history man, they don't have any potatoes
<diddledan> oh :-(
<n1md4> erm, so 64bit precise would be http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/ ?
<diddledan> history.. not so much
<ali1234> n1md4: all architectures are under that path
<directhex> n1md4, "deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ precise main restricted universe multiverse"
<diddledan> n1md4: for /etc/apt/sources.list you want "deb http:.... yeah, what directhex said
<shauno> the arch is in the filename for each individual package, rather than being part of the path
<n1md4> i'm working on some xenserver vm creating thing, install from url "dah-dah-dah"
<diddledan> shauno: the filename doesn't form part of the path anymore?
<n1md4> not sources.lst
<directhex> the arch has never been part of sources.list entries
<diddledan> aah, xenserver is a pain to find the right url
<n1md4> it's the dah-dah-dah bit i'm wanting :)
<ali1234> the actual deb files are under http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/
<diddledan> I believe you need the url to the netinstaller
<diddledan> let me find it
<n1md4> diddledan: please :)
<n1md4> debian was a peice of cake, so was centos .. surprisingly ubuntu has been the pain atm
<ali1234> is that the pxeboot stuff?
<daftykins> can't you just debootstrap a xen VM? or mooch a made one
<shauno> curious, what was the 'dah-dah-dah' for debian?
<ali1234> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot
<ali1234> (adapt for arch and version)
<diddledan> http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-amd64/ might be close
<ali1234> yeah, /current/images/netboot/
<n1md4> i'll give it a go
<n1md4> thanks
<diddledan> I did have it worked out, but it got forgotten
<diddledan> probably to make room for porn
<diddledan> raspberry pi withOUT a case!!! oooh yeah
<diddledan> now _that's_ porn!
<daftykins> *with clear case
<shauno> I don't get why.  they're brought into the world without cases.  it's perfectly natural
<daftykins> shauno: society for you :(
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://open.spotify.com/album/1aSU7tVnGuKquY8yKCw1jm
<shauno> eh.  in this house, the pi run free :)
<diddledan> shauno: unfortunately society ate from the apple!
<daftykins> i nearly got one the other day but it sounds like my old 1.2GHz core solo ULV will be faster
<diddledan> and opened all the windows
<shauno> hey, the apple run free in this house too
<shauno> reminds me, I need to find some kind of irblaster for my pi.  it's years since I looked at that stuff
<daftykins> what do you use it for?
<shauno> at the moment, very very little.  but I want it to do scheduling for my roomba, since I cheaped out and got a roomba with no timer
<shauno> well, I want it to do a few things, but I'm incredibly lazy
<n1md4> diddledan: it was far simpler! http://gb.archive.ubuntu.net/ubuntu
<diddledan> lol *facepalm*
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<shauno> but mostly in the same theme .. I want it to grab my calendar and then schedule various tasks around it
<diddledan> such as sucky sucky late at night?
<daftykins> diddledan: inappropriate for this chan, dude
<diddledan> roomba = hoover = vacuum cleaner, it sucks by it's very nature, therefore I refer to doing the cleaning as sucky sucky
<shauno> more mornings.  turning my espresso machine on before I wake up so it's warmed up in time, running the roomba while I'm at work, etc.  and yeah, you forget which chan this is :)
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> i didn't even twig what it was :(
<diddledan> see, I guess my reputation must precede me. shauno have you been telling tales about me and bandcamp?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: .com?
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> there's a bandcamp.com?
<diddledan> well I'll be, and they made it all above board and everything
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I've actually bought quite a bit of music off there
<shauno> I think I've had a few from there.  the only one that springs to mind, is that it's the home of the guy that does the soundtrack for minecraft
<MartijnVdS> http://music.demoscenetimemachine.com/  is bandcamp-based
<diddledan> minecraft doesn't have a soundtrack. it has a jingle every sunrise and sunset, and that's it
<MartijnVdS> and http://alinahardin.bandcamp.com/ is good as well
<diddledan> reminds me of my yoof
<diddledan> it's super mario brothers on steroids
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: hi! @ reddit ;)
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> directhex:
<daftykins> 0o
<directhex> MartijnVdS, ?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: You await a glorious future of non-16-bitness :)
<directhex> well, yes
<directhex> it's dumb that haswell core i7 chips are also fully valid 16-bit cpus, even when only ever booting a 64-bit os
<diddledan> ergh, synergy+ has stopped working properly. or rather on my ubuntu machine the screensaver kicked in and now I can't get it to stop
<daftykins> hahaha
<directhex> :D
<directhex> x11 strikes again
<daftykins> who uses screensavers :(
<daftykins> i use power buttons.
<directhex> i need to lock my screen a lot, i have root on all the compNY'S SErvers
<diddledan> it's worse than that.. I've got mir running on there and the screensaver doesn't do anything to the screen, so I'm staring at what I was doing before it "turned off"
<diddledan> directhex: ditto
<diddledan> several government departments might get annoyed if I leaked access
<daftykins> i guess 'screensaver' and lock screen are synonymous in Loonix land
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: what happened to transparency and open access data?
<diddledan> yeah
<MartijnVdS> :P
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: that's the NSA
<MartijnVdS> Great... my xhci controller is so new, Linux doesn't like all of it yet: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1207612
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1207612 in linux (Ubuntu) "Using webcam fills log with xhci_hcd errors" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<daftykins> well, you did buy on release day :D / night
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: what're you running?
<diddledan> must be very new
<daftykins> haswell
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: Z87
<diddledan> aah, z87x
 * diddledan just spooted it in the bug report
<daftykins> i nearly upgraded the other day - i still don't think a top-end haswell i7 would feel enough of an upgrade for me though
<diddledan> I've got an amd bulldozer
<diddledan> over there --->
<diddledan> I'm on a macbook pro here
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, --> over there is my old first-gen i3
<diddledan> the bulldozer is the system that I currently have no control over 'cos of the screen freeze
<diddledan> it needs a reboob methinks
<daftykins> oh AMD i wish you were great again
<directhex> daftykins, i'm still on a core i7 920
<directhex> the *real* i7
<diddledan> does anybody do tripple channel ram anymore?
<MartijnVdS> DDR3?
<diddledan> the i7 920 did
<directhex> with triple-channel RAM!
<daftykins> heh which iirc made pretty negligible a difference
<diddledan> it did make mobo builders put 6 slots on the board tho, which does make a difference in capacity
<diddledan> hate with a vengeance 2 slotted boards
<MartijnVdS> that does rock
<diddledan> 4 is barely adequate
<MartijnVdS> though I have 16GB in 2 (of 4) slots now
<diddledan> 6 is awesome
<popey> gosh, 6 slots?
<directhex> daftykins, i like having something i can show off, when i build a system. e.g. i had the first agp 8x gpu/mobo :p
<popey> i have only seen a 6 slot mobo in pictures â»
<directhex> popey, every X58 motherboard except for intel's own one had 6 slots, since ram needed to go in multiples of 3
<popey> still not seen one, i dont tend to buy top end mobos for desktops
<daftykins> directhex: ;)
<directhex> daftykins, of course, this meant having a SiS gpu/mobo :D
<daftykins> it's not the board, it's the old i7 setup which necessitated it
<daftykins> omw SiS
<daftykins> directhex: i hope you bought the pack of razor blades at the same time
<directhex> popey, http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2958#ov is my board
<directhex> not the sexiest board i've ever owned
<MartijnVdS> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4514 = mine
<popey> Ultra Durable!
<directhex> that was http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/000261/albatron_px845pe_pro_iis.jpg
<popey> 3!
<directhex> sexy sexy motherboard
<directhex> hey daftykins, back me up here!
<popey> what are the white and blue ports at the bottom left?
<popey> lots o sata?
<MartijnVdS> popey: yeah
<MartijnVdS> different controllers I think (some are on-chipset, others are on an extra controller)
<popey> now i have no office I have no space for desktop
<popey> i am a laptop nomad
<popey> spent the day working at the inlaws house
<MartijnVdS> popey: aww.. time for another floor?
<popey> hah i wish
<MartijnVdS> basement?
<popey> no point making this house bigger, would make it harder to sell
<daftykins> looks a bit of a plain jane :(
<daftykins> directhex: sorry :(
<popey> 5 bed house in a road with only 3 bed houses
<directhex> popey, modern motherboard chipsets don't support IDE, but at the time i was buying, users would occasionally still demand it. so mobo manufacturers would use a JMicron IDE controller chip - which also provided some SATA slots
<directhex> popey, so 6 sata ports provided by the intel chipset, plus 4 by jmicron
<popey> hah
<daftykins> and nasty they were too
<diddledan> 6 sata ports is narey enough
<directhex> oh, jmicron is terrible
<directhex> but just explainin' why it's there
<daftykins> sure
<daftykins> i actually make use of it in my server because my optical in there is PATA still :D
<directhex> i need to go & cook. i wonder if i should put some clothes on
<diddledan> I've got my pata optical plugged into a sata adapter card
<diddledan> takes separate power tho :-(
<daftykins> directhex: if it's going to spit fat, yes
<directhex> daftykins, it is not!
<diddledan> then no :-p
<daftykins> this is my current: http://www.asus.com/media/global/products/cPrufUGXUlY9OsYv/P_500.jpg
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: colours!
<daftykins> many colours @_@
<daftykins> she's a tad flakey
<directhex> nah... remember DFI lanparty boards?
<daftykins> can't run the DDR2 @ 1066MHz anymore, had to dial it back to 800
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> glow in the dark slots
<diddledan> oh, my other puter just sprung to life
<diddledan> the screen is working again
<directhex> yeah, glow in the dark slots :>
<diddledan> desktop computers are too bright these days
<diddledan> lights up the wazoo
<directhex> i like how foxconn sold a motherboard *recently* with 4 different mobo chipset coolers. one of them was "a big aluminium cup, for liquid nitrogen"
<daftykins> i dunno, everything visible outside tends to be black
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: mine only has a few LEDs, most inside the case :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: which is NOT transparent ;)
<daftykins> anywho we need to go and cook directhex!
<diddledan> my pizza will be beeping at me in exactly 4 minues 54 seconds
<diddledan> it's cheapskate cook-it-yourself tonight
<shauno> I used to have one of those DFI boards.  it was purdy.  and caked in dustbunnies
<diddledan> shauno: dustbunnies aren't necessarily a good thing
<directhex> fine, i'm going for gold
<directhex> the zaniest motherboard evar was from aopen
<diddledan> I've got several mobos from jetway from circa 1999 which are all dead becuase the capacitors leaked
<directhex> http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/dec10_mobos/11_full.jpg
<directhex> check and mate.
<shauno> and fwiw it appears I'm cooking haluÅ¡ky tonight.  always fun, always messy
<daftykins> what's that circled O_O
<daftykins> a valve?
<diddledan> that was due to capacitor gate where several companies were caught with substandard stolen formula
<directhex> daftykins, the vacuum tube used by the onboard audio
<daftykins> XD
<directhex> daftykins, yes! :D
<diddledan> wtf?
<directhex> :DDDD
<diddledan> that's nuts
<daftykins> the size of that cap
<directhex> :DDDDDDDD
<diddledan> I'm betting it's completely useless use of a valve, too
<daftykins> that's Pentium 4 right?
<diddledan> on the preamp where it does absolutely no difference to the sound outpout
<diddledan> the home theatre units from (samsung?) which include a valve are the same - they put it in the preamp circuit where it has no affect on the quality of the audio output
<directhex> daftykins, yes. there was an nforce2 version too iirc
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> it amuses me that fraps gives Chrome a framerate whilst i'm sat with gmail open
<daftykins> anywho best get some food on the go
<directhex> aha, found the specifics. Sovtek 6922 vacuum tube
<directhex> fed by a cheapy realtek chip :p
<daftykins> directhex: recipe for success!
<MartijnVdS> that or a house fire
<daftykins> which could also be a success
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: what's your old setup doing these days?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: not much
<daftykins> aww
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it's running GameOS now
<daftykins> O_O
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: for tax stuff mostly.. less font hassle (the Dutch tax agency has Windows, Mac or Linux binaries, using wxwindows, but the Linux version comes as an *autopackage*)
<diddledan> microsoft automated dmca takedown notice to google: http://torrentfreak.com/images/google-dmca-ms.png
<diddledan> think of the children!
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-03
<MrGarlic> if you're a brown UK border agent you're the embodiment of scum, and we're excommunicating you
<neuro> tootles!
<MartijnVdS> morning everyone!
<shauno> aloha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<StevenR> yay. Grub errors regarding embedding
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFtmkILu6xg&list=PL32F8B5F41870D160
<penguin42> hmph my dsl seems to have dropped down to 7.9Mbps from about 10-11Mbps
<MartijnVdS> aww
<mgdm> I have no idea how fast my DSL is these days
<mgdm> it's > 10Mbps so I'm happy :_0
<mgdm> :-) even
<mgdm> I'm not demanding
<penguin42> mgdm: Well exactly, 10-11Mbps is it's norm with about 1Mbps up - and at that I'm pretty happy; dropping down to under 8 is nasty!
<Azelphur> https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=566904988
 * Azelphur sighs
<Azelphur> 156.33.241.5Â US Senate, Washington DC.
<penguin42> haha
<Azelphur> they really are trying ;)
<MartijnVdS> too bad cases like this are quite high-profile
<MartijnVdS> and Wikipedia editors are hawks
<MartijnVdS> argh
<MartijnVdS> Unbelieving bug triagers
<MartijnVdS> I've added *all* necessary info, triager goes "Can you try again?"
<MartijnVdS> I could.. but nothing has changed, so it'll still break. Because it's been breaking for a week now.
<penguin42> bug ?
<MartijnVdS> 1207612
<penguin42> bug 1207612
<lubotu3> bug 1207612 in linux (Ubuntu) "046d:0825 Using webcam fills log with xhci_hcd errors" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207612
 * penguin42 tosses lubotu3 a cookie
<MartijnVdS> !botsnack
<lubotu3> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well he didn't ask you to try it again did he in those comments - he asked whether the camera worked
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's still a "We don't believe you see the bug" comment.
<MartijnVdS> or it reads like one anyway
<ali1234> there's no point ever reporting kernel bugs on launchpad
<ali1234> they will not be fixed
<ali1234> you will be asked to retest every 6 months, but that is it
<penguin42> yeh it's pretty rare, although it is useful if you find a heck of a lot people are hitting the same thing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: this one has a patch that is/will be upstream for the next release
<MartijnVdS> (3.11)
<ali1234> it won't be backported until after the next release, and then only if you can cionvince someone to do a SRU, and that will only happen if the bug can cause data loss
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'm on saucy
<ali1234> doesn't matter
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'm assuming the target kernel is 3.11
<MartijnVdS> which is exactly right
<ali1234> they don't start fixing bugs until after release
<ali1234> so then just wait for 3.11 to release and saucy to switch to it, problem solved?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes, but have them be aware of it, because newer hardware like this is getting more common
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: at the very least, it'll give people a bug to subscribe to
<ali1234> where are we in the release cycle anyway?
<MartijnVdS> august-ish
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: So the normal thing next is to ask you to test latest upstream in the http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/  but I think you've find the right bug
<MartijnVdS> there was a page that uses previous kernel releases to guess the next release date
 * MartijnVdS can't find it anymore
<ali1234> it's not in upstream yet though
<ali1234> i suppose it might be in rc3
 * MartijnVdS looks at git
<MartijnVdS> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=07f3cb7c28bf3f4dd80bfb136cf45810c46ac474
<daftykins> "Software is now supposed to not assume the TD is not completed until it gets that last successful status."
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: so try latest upstream from that ppa
<ali1234> that's in rc3 then
<daftykins> negative overload
<daftykins> it's not the not not...
<ali1234> *now
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: *install*
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: There are a series of tags to add to the bug as well to indicate whether it succeeds or fails with a given kernel
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: where do I find a description of those tags?
<penguin42> hmm can't find them
<MartijnVdS> \o/ that fixed it. Added comment.
 * penguin42 needs to do that to see if his USB thumb drive comes back 3.0.10-6 broke it
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: How much is it filling the logs - is it enough to make the machine unusable or just a PITA ?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: around 20 times/second
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: so if you're webcamming all day, your / will fill up nicely
<daftykins> funsies
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: the commit note states it needs to be backported all the way to 3.0 (because new hardware vs old software expectation)
<penguin42> nod
 * penguin42 hmms and ha's about switching gas supplier
<daftykins> oooh risky
<daftykins> i invited one of those door to door people in once in Portsmouth, thing is despite their promises they try to hide the fact you'd only be saving maybe a fiver
<penguin42> daftykins: Well uswitch/money supermarket seems to say it'll save me Â£80/year, athough there is a Â£30 early leave fee, but the current supplier is annoying
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> there's great choice down here
<daftykins> you have your Guernsey Water, Guernsey Gas and Guernsey Electricity
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> hmm - who do you use?
<daftykins> all of them :D
<penguin42> right, swtiched to 'flow energy'
<daftykins> let's hope it flows well
<penguin42> nod, I suspect the hard part will be the transfer from the existing supplier
<penguin42> hmm odd, the daily kernel booted really really fast - but complained that the radeon driver couldn't load firmware
#ubuntu-uk 2013-08-04
<brobostigon> good morning eveyrone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> heh, I wonder if this is right, or if someone Oopsed:
<MartijnVdS> I dumped my graphics bios (intel_bios_dump), and am now reading it with intel_bios_read
<MartijnVdS> The HDMI ports show:
<MartijnVdS>                 Device type: 0x60d2 (DVI-D)
<MartijnVdS>                 Info: DisplayPort
<MartijnVdS> the DP port shows:
<MartijnVdS>                 Device type: 0x60d6 (DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI)
<MartijnVdS>                 Info: DVI
<MartijnVdS> https://www.google.com/search?q=timer+10+seconds
<penguin42> http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/08/03/android-bluetooth-exploit-for-japanese-toilet-brings-new-meaning-to-the-word-vulnerability/
<MartijnVdS> oh the puns
<shauno> I must confess, I don't quite understand why you'd want an app for your potty in the first place
<penguin42> shauno: Indeed, or how you clean your phone after you use the app
<SuperEngineer> a'noon peeps
<SuperMatt> hulloooo
<SuperEngineer> o/
<penguin42> Hey Supers
<SuperEngineer> hi penguin42 SuperMatt
<SuperEngineer> the strangest coincidences happen sometimes...
<SuperEngineer> just as some bloke called billy b deletes a g+ a/c - some strange person called Su Peren-Gineer opens one!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<penguin42> let me guess, oddly they thought billy b wasn't a valid name?
 * penguin42 expects Su Peren-Gineer to produce the passport etc
<SuperEngineer> no - a long time ago they though "superengineer" & "super engineer" were not real!
<SuperEngineer> oh revenge is a dish best served....
<penguin42> who would doubt it?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I had my Dr at the start of my G+ name and had to remove it
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: lol
<SuperEngineer> annoyingly, 1 week after I was notified superengineer wasn't "real" I found they then a private company called by same name abroad have it!!
<SuperEngineer> again... oh revenge is a dish best served....
<penguin42> and I'm fairly sure they added that rule years after I created my account
<SuperEngineer> ditto here!
<SuperEngineer> that's how G treat the early adopters - loyalty means nowt
<daftykins> :o you're a Dr. Penguin? neat :)
<SuperEngineer> [he meant to a dd a "who" after "Dr."?
<daftykins> ugh leave that overrated series alone Â¬_Â¬
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: it's only over ratyed if you don't come from another planet... like what I do!
<daftykins> oh that old chestnut :(
<daftykins> i forgot you are our resident fruitcake!
<ali1234> billy b chops?
<ali1234> who would think this is not a valid name?
<SuperEngineer> yup - old indeed - been telling people that evr since grammar school!
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: it was super engineer / superengineer they claimed did not exist - yet they let this non-existent person know he didn't exist!
<SuperEngineer> now who's crazy, eh, G+!
<ali1234> i don't even
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Search doesn't find Su
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: ...and proud of it - tho beware, I have been known for some exceptional wisdoms [& modesty]  ;)
<SuperEngineer> hmm - how long before they catch up? yhey do say there is a lag showig up new a/cs
<SuperEngineer> *they
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: "Su" should show 100's of Sues etc surely?
<SuperEngineer> try Peren-Gineer
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No, Peren-Gineer doesn't find anything
<SuperEngineer> i would try myself but I doubt that would work from own a/c
<SuperEngineer> ...in which case their warning is correct - may take a while
<SuperEngineer> [unless they're looking thru name databases of all known countries for an Peren-Gineer of course!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Give them a phone number and ask them to call you and put on a suitably fruity accent
<SuperEngineer> ooo *that* might work!
<SuperEngineer> -not-
 * SuperEngineer wonders if G m,onitor this channel & are busy deleting me! - nah!!!!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well the channel is logged publicly , and google indexes it....
<SuperEngineer> so.. dear G -  I can think of another monitoring orginisation beginning with "G" - hmmmmmm?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Just wait until you get tax requests for Su
<SuperEngineer> can't hurt more than my current ones!
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: they already seem to think I should twice!
<penguin42> that seems rather unfair
<SuperEngineer> *pay twice
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: your comment is more polite than the one I use every time a tax notify comes through letterbox!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Is it a Buttle/Tuttle type screw up?
<SuperEngineer> dunno
<SuperEngineer> been in "frank discussions" with them over 2 years "discussing" my opinion of their tax codong - they still haven't sent a plain English explanation after 2 years
 * SuperEngineer is slightly less than iompressed
<penguin42> yeh there's absolutely no way of getting them to do anything sane as far as I can tell
<SuperEngineer> agreed
 * penguin42 spent some time a while ago sorting out when they screwed up and said I owed tax on interest on an account - which they only gave a few digits from; turned out to be an ISA I'd closed years before
<SuperEngineer> athough a long while ago they added someone else's work to my a/c and I ended up having to threaten court action under several charges before they stopped
<SuperEngineer> ..nearly time for a repeat of history methinks
<penguin42> hth do you threaten court against the tax man?
<SuperEngineer> ...a paranoid person might think this is them getting revenge]
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: very politely & professionally
<ali1234> a council once tried to take me to court over unpaid council tax
<ali1234> first i heard about it was the summons
<ali1234> i sent thema copy of the receipt for tax paid and a notice i would contest the charge
<ali1234> they rapidly cancelled the summons and dropped the complaint
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: in the days of poll tax I was a regular reader of Computer Weekly reg [was a programmer then] -0
<SuperEngineer> ..it gave me the exact state of chaos of my local tax office pootersa every week
<SuperEngineer> held back paymeny until last moment as passive protest - without danger ;)
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: surprising how the stance of a persomn in the right - with proof of being right - frightens them
<ali1234> it's not surprising at al
<SuperEngineer> :)
<ali1234> i find it is the best way to deal with bureaucracy
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: +1
<ali1234> if you are in the right, don't expend any more effort than necessary
<ali1234> just give them enough rope to hang themselves with
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: again +1 to that as well
<SuperEngineer> So... anyone know if Leisure Suoite
<SuperEngineer> damn!
<ali1234> i got similar nonsense from the tv licensing people actually... at a different place though
<ali1234> they claimed that i had to pay two tv licenses for 123A and 123B
<ali1234> there was no A and B of course
<ali1234> i just totally ignored that one
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> TV licensing is pretty frustrating
<ali1234> since the letters didn't have my name on, just "the occupier" - to acknowledge them would validate their claim that those addresses actually existed
<daftykins> indeed
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: that made me literally lol!
<ali1234> it makes me wonder though, how many vulnerable people with poor memory are paying TV license twice because of the scare tactics they use
<penguin42> ali1234: Same with the tax guys - people get a letter saying they owe so much money on particular accounts, all looks official - then you start digging and find it's rubbish
<ali1234> i've never had a problem with HMRC... yet
<daftykins> our local tax is terrible
<daftykins> take 5+ months to respond to letters calling out their mistakes
<penguin42> ali1234: Lucky you
<SuperEngineer> Thankyou for calling HMRC. Press 0 if you are calling about an ongoing problem. Now press 1 if it has been ongoing for 1 year, press 2 if it has been ongoing for 2 years, press 3...
<penguin42> press z if you want to wait for another year
<SuperEngineer> oh if only
<SuperEngineer> On the bright side - you all owe me a vote of thanks for paying off the national debt all by myself
 * penguin42 thought he was doing that
<daftykins> not my government, sorry
<SuperEngineer> no politics!
<daftykins> i'm just saying i can't thank you when it's not my gov :)
<ali1234> you know that rubbery coating then use on phones etc? what is it called?
<ali1234> and why does it melt after a couple of years?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: it's called "notfireproofsodontleavemebytheheaterplease"
<ali1234> it doesn't melt from heat
<ali1234> it seems to react badly with skin oils
<SuperEngineer> ooo - cold hands! - VAMPIRE ALERT
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> eww
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: skin  oils?  basic design flaw if so
<ali1234> basically it dissolves into something roughly the same as when a rubber band melts into good
<ali1234> yeah so what i want to do is find out what the hell the stuff is so i can find some other chemical to clean it off before it goes bad
<penguin42> ali1234: I guess it's some kind of mixture of stuff and they eventually separate
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: isopropyl alcohol?
<ali1234> nope, doesn't work
<ali1234> acetone works but damages the plastic underneath
<SuperEngineer> [only guessing - not sure]
<ali1234> when it goes bad it has the consistency of chewed chewing gum
<SuperEngineer> olive oil?
<SuperEngineer> ...with care
<ali1234> maybe
<MartijnVdS> you want to get rid of oils
<penguin42> then soap?
<ali1234> soap doesn't work
<SuperEngineer> yup - that's how the Romans knew it cleared yukky stuff - but the oil needs removing cleaning
 * penguin42 can see ali1234 taking his phone into the shop to be repaired and the tech smelling it
<alistair> hello, there was a midi module different to snd-virmidi (which doesnt work once installed) which gives 16 internal midi through channels, does anybody know what it is called?
<ali1234> it's never a problem on phones inside warranty
<ali1234> it takes about 6-8 years to go bad
<ali1234> but they are using it on everything these days
<ali1234> i've got an electric drill which has it on the andle which is starting to go
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel :)
<SuperEngineer> on a drill handle try wet&dry / glass paper?
<SuperEngineer> no delicates nearby to damage
<ali1234> http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159815.0
<ali1234> ^ people describe the issue
<ali1234> yeah sand paper doesn't work... it's like trying to sand paper chewing gum
<ali1234> it just clogs the paper
 * SuperEngineer scrubs that idea then
<ali1234> the only way i know to get it off is to scrape it off with a knife and that still takes ages
<SuperEngineer> Lixton fluid?
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_make_sticky_rubber_normal
<penguin42> haha reference to Andromeda Strain
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-remove-a-sticky-surface-from-rubber/
<ali1234> i wish they wouldn't use this stuff, whatever it is
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: urethane rubber
<SuperEngineer> Lixton fluid  =  real good at cleaning things like rubberised / synthesised rubberised products to remove all yuk
<penguin42> I think I'd try and coat over it
<ali1234> hmm so basically, ammonia
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and even then it's only temporary
<ali1234> it's not
<ali1234> i have a few things which i have entirely stripped the coating off
<MartijnVdS> it's not?
<ali1234> underneath it's normal plastic
<MartijnVdS> sure
<MartijnVdS> but you can't "fix" the rubber
<ali1234> i don't want to
<MartijnVdS> not permanently anyway
<ali1234> i want to remove it
<ali1234> entirely
<ali1234> the rubber is only a very very thin coating, probaby less than 0.1mm
<ali1234> it serves no purpose at all other than to make the product feel like it is higher quality than it actually is
<SuperEngineer> Lixton fluid  =  real good at cleaning things like rubberised / synthesised rubberised products to remove all yukthen
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: change the casing - add external casing? forget the bad design underneath
<SuperEngineer> ..or would that make phone /drill unuseable?
<ali1234> pretty much
<SuperEngineer> darn
<MartijnVdS> replace the rubber with sugru :P
<neuro> boing
<ali1234> another example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Pw8vHjgcw
<neuro> of?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: a few years back I was on a course...
<ali1234> neuro: melty rubber coating
<neuro> ew, i'm *eating*
<SuperEngineer> was related a tale about cleaning certain things [can't say]
<ali1234> this guy sanded his mouse down
<neuro> [stealth bombers]
<penguin42> poor thing
<ali1234> there should be a way to remove the rubber without damaging the plastic underneath
<SuperEngineer> ...they sent a samble off to labs and asked for ways to clean without destroying
<ali1234> i mean if the rubber is dissolving but the plastic underneath is fine, then there must be some solvent which will dissolve the rubber properly without harming the plastic
<SuperEngineer> ...a long chemical formula was returned as the required "cleaner". response was - but what is that?
<SuperEngineer> Mr Sheen cleaner!
<SuperEngineer> ..idea: if you get the one with hard bits in , it might remove the rubber stuff
<neuro> disgusting!
<ali1234> i keep finding more and more stuff with this rubbery crap on it now i'm actually looking
<ali1234> and nearly all of it is starting to go sticky
<penguin42> definitely the andromeda strain
<ali1234> the volume control knob on my speakers
<ali1234> a load of pens with rubbery grips
<ali1234> the nexus 7 back cover even has it
<ali1234> that's not old enough to be melting yet
<ali1234> but it will
<penguin42> you probably find it's contagious - you transfer the goo off one of them to another via your hands and that starts the other one leaching
<ali1234> very likely
<SuperEngineer> ...and some car dashboard knobs have it
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: and then the tyres....
<ali1234> yeah that's the thing
<ali1234> actual rubber objects seem unaffected
<ali1234> only plastic objects with the thin coating seem affected
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: you're driving far enough if your tyres desolves before wearing out!  ;)
<ali1234> it could be because the thin layer easily breaks down
<ali1234> or it could be a different type of rubber
<ali1234> leather seems to accelerate the breakdown
<ali1234> ie using a leather case on a phone
<neuro> dammit
<neuro> stupid kernel updates
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: surely that's the friction effect with the leather outer?
<ali1234> outer?
<SuperEngineer> outer = case
<SuperEngineer> [soz]
 * penguin42 decides to finish off his sorbet, I don't think it's going to get warm again
<ali1234> hmm maybe
<ali1234> or it could be something to do with the tanning process, or it could even be fake plastic leather leeching chemicals
<ali1234> latter probably more likely
<SuperEngineer> agreed
 * neuro sighs
<daftykins> aww what's up neuro?
<neuro> brought up my irc proxy vm
<neuro> after migrating it to a new iscsi datastore
<neuro> and it needed a kernel update :P
<neuro> so had to do a reboot there
<neuro> hence the grumble and discon/recon
<neuro> but oh how i love esxi :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> you run one at home?
<neuro> two
<neuro> but i've migrated everything off local datastores onto a synology nas iscsi target
<neuro> so i can shut one down
<neuro> electricity-- ftw
<daftykins> two at home, crikey
<SuperEngineer> whoops - promised neighbour I'd go for a drink with - see yazall in an hour[ish] folkjs
<daftykins> what are you running there :P
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: hf
<neuro> daftykins: not much: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/grabs/Screen%20Shot%202013-08-04%20at%2015.06.09.png
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> nice little testbed i see
<neuro> not really
<daftykins> no?
<daftykins> also i don't think you've got enough in the system tray
<neuro> cochrane is my irc proxy and LAN dhcpd, copernicus is an old test win98 vm, fearless is my old mail server, hathaway is my server config master host and BT ingress box, intrepid is my general shell box and Sky ingress box, memoryalpha is me thinking about replacing intrepid, shenandoah ... no idea what that was ;) and wormhole-gw is my main pfsense router for the house
<neuro> so it's more production that lab
<neuro> s/that/than/
<daftykins> what are the physical systems hosting them?
<neuro> my old one is a dell dimension 5150 (Pentium D 2.8GHz, 4G RAM but only 3.2G visible)
<neuro> the main one is some random zoostorm thing off ebuyer, Pentium G840 2.8GHz, 16G RAM
<neuro> intel dual GigE NIC on the old one, three intel GigE NICs on the new one, internal NICs disabled on both
<neuro> and now a synology ds213j acting as datastore
<neuro> which is nice </fastshow>
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> pretty elaborate stuff for home
<neuro> not in my opinion
<neuro> elaborate would have been to spend 500 quid on vsphere starter edition and built up a proper cluster
<daftykins> well i've got a file server that runs VMs, but it's a single box with vmware workstation atop it
<penguin42> neuro: Are you multipathing the iscsi?
<neuro> yeah, i didn't want my VMs to have a lot of OS underneath them
<daftykins> having two boxes sounds like you're going for redundancy too XD
<neuro> penguin42: not to my knowledge, no
<neuro> daftykins: it's just a timeline thing
<neuro> have been running the old dell since ~ 2009
<neuro> got the zoostorm last year
<neuro> always wanted to transition from one to t'other
<neuro> only really got the impetus to do it now
<neuro> also cheap nas
<neuro> now i can turn off the old one for the first time in about 4 years (power cut in april notwithstanding)
<daftykins> :)
<neuro> in fact i've just powered it off
<neuro> \o/
<daftykins> you want a UPS there :)
<neuro> heh yeah
<penguin42> neuro: I got one of those zoostorm's for my dad - not bad for the price
<neuro> penguin42: they're rubbish
<neuro> the RAM was bad from the get go
<neuro> didn't care that much as I was replacing it anyway
<neuro> and the hard drive is failing
<daftykins> 0o
<neuro> which is partly why i wanted the VMs off the local storage
<penguin42> neuro: Oh I think one of the DIMMs had bounced in transit - was fine when I pushed it back in
<neuro> now i can replace the HDD with the 500G WD Black I bought at same time as NAS
<neuro> do a full reinstall of ESXi
<neuro> and then re-add the VMs to inventory from the iSCSI target
<daftykins> heh, yeah that's generally how it works ;)
<neuro> penguin42: no, they were *bad*, i.e. proper bad, i.e. failed a memtest
<neuro> daftykins: wouldn't have minded so much, as my important data (like homedirs etc) gets mounted onto my VMs over NFS from my other NASes
<neuro> but it would cause my router VM to cark it every couple of weeks
<neuro> lots of weird disk timeout errors on the esxi logs
<neuro> so that's the point where i really got driven to migrating everything onto network storage, and consolidate the VMs on one machine
<neuro> but the replacing HDD job shall wait until next w/e :)
 * neuro spies a fellow he.net tunnelbroker user :)
<neuro> 2001:470:1f09:... ;)
 * penguin42 goes through a ubuntu-kernel config - are there ANY ubuntu arcnet users?
<penguin42> and calxeda drivers built on x86
<penguin42> gah I searched for a spare part for my dads razor and now I've got a spare part site offering me entirely random sets of spares for anything
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> so many spammy sites that waste your time when trying to do such things now
<daftykins> like those google results that link to somebody searching for <x> on their site Â¬_Â¬
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> to be fair I think the site did actually have the thing I wanted - but more than amazon so I bought it from amazon
<penguin42> but now they're going to try and sell me it for months
<neuro> it's the sites that purport to have loads of user manuals on them that wind me up
<daftykins> ah yes
<neuro> edge is now $5.9m off the pace :(
<penguin42> neuro: Just have to see if Mark puts the remainder in at the end
<neuro> ha
<penguin42> ...or the devs employed on it
<neuro> "New tier: sabdfl-only tier, $32m - $however_much_is_in_the_kitty"
<daftykins> someone was saying he'd end up putting in tonnes even if it hit the limit
<daftykins> so he can't really finish it himself
<neuro> 25% raised with 41% campaign time passed
<daftykins> still crawling along i see
<neuro> if it completes, it vindicates the choice of crowdfunding
<neuro> if it fails and nothing happens afterwards, it says crowdfunding was a bad choice
<neuro> if it fails and sabdfl funds the shortfall, it still says crowdfunding was a bad choice
<daftykins> would it not be more of a reflection on the product?
<neuro> i don't think so
<penguin42> neuro: Well the other question to ask is where the $32M figure came from
<neuro> there's plenty of interest in the phone
<neuro> exactly
<neuro> there's been no real breakdown or explanation as to how the money would be spent
<neuro> other than "it'll all go to make the phones" (paraphrase)
<neuro> and imho the campaign has been badly mishandled
<neuro> with all these random tiers being introduced at odd times
<neuro> and the t-shirts ... *facepalm*
<neuro> oh and the best bit, if they make $32m on the nose, they won't really have $32m in hand (indiegogo fees aside)
<penguin42> why?
<neuro> because they're refunding the difference between the $830 cost and the lower cost
<penguin42> neuro: I mean I assume there was some slack in it to ensure they had enough to do what they wanted
<neuro> but we have no idea
<neuro> because there's no outline of how the funding will be deployed
<daftykins> almost time for LAS
<neuro> and it seems (but it's not clear) that only those who bought the $3830 perk *before* the graduated tier limit was introduced will get refunded
<neuro> so if you buy an $830 one now, you won't get anything back
<neuro> it's all very confusing
<penguin42> neuro: I guess some of it is rightly commercially confidential - like how much you have to pay to factories to make things or design whatever
<neuro> but they have a "habit of openness and transparency"
<neuro> it's all very weird to me
<penguin42> yeh but I can see there being limits to that; you wouldn't put peoples salaries up there and you couldn't put how much you were prepared to pay vendors because then you couldn't negotiate for cheaper
<neuro> you can guesstimate though
<neuro> but that's all we can do
<neuro> and do you really think they don't already have a manufacturer lined up?
<neuro> "we have experienced operators and manufacturing partners in place"
<neuro> "Weâve been working with manufacturers and carriers, so everything we need is already in place. We also have a team based in Taiwan where the bulk of the production will occur"
<neuro> they don't need to bid amongst manus to get cheaper pricing
<neuro> they know who they're working with
<neuro> so they'll know the costs
<neuro> otherwise, why stick a finger in the air and say "ummmm ... $32m?"
<penguin42> it's a power of 2?
<neuro> i really don't want to fund a manufacturing project with a product as an end goal that makes geek jokes out of the funding level, especially at *that* amount :)
<neuro> i don't know ... as much as I like Canonical and want them to succeed at all things, especially Ubuntu-related ones, I think this is a clusterfrak waiting to happen
<penguin42> neuro: Not sure, I mean they're going high spec so it'll certainly push some tech along so that could be good - I won't be buying one because I'm too mean
<neuro> i won't be buying one because I prefer the iOS ecosystem, and I don't have the spare cash to blow on a phone just to play on
<neuro> if I'm buying a phone now, I'm buying it to use every day
<neuro> been burned by buying random phones in the past (hello Nokia E71, Samsung Galaxy S2)
<daftykins> what was wrong with the S2? they seem quite capable smartphones even toda
<daftykins> y
 * penguin42 has an Â£80 android phone
<neuro> hated it
<neuro> screen too unwieldy, too plasticky, battery life awful, nasty OS, etc etc
<daftykins> hah
<neuro> oh, and syncing to/from my mac with kies was a total joke
<daftykins> it's had a fair few updates of android over the years
<daftykins> if you tried to use their software to sync rather than the native device accounts, then you're kinda asking for trouble
<neuro> um, ok?
<neuro> that's a bad indictment of the ecosytem then, isn't it?
<daftykins> unless it was just files, like music you were syncing
<neuro> "buy this awesome phone, but don't use the manufacturer supplied PC/Mac software"
<neuro> it was all sorts of stuff including some music
<daftykins> no it's not, because Samsung Kies has nothing to do with Android
<neuro> but it has everything to do with a Samsung Galaxy S2
<neuro> how is Average Joe Phone User supposed to tell the difference?
<daftykins> i think they'd be more inclined to just paste to the folders :)
<neuro> not if they're told otherwise
<neuro> e.g. by the instruction manual, the phone, the manufacturer ...
<daftykins> i don't tend to consider inexperienced users
<neuro> then you're being selective to suit the needs of your argument
<daftykins> and you're not by choosing a user type to begin with?
<neuro> i was pointing out the most common type of user
<daftykins> also it's a discussion not an argument :D
<neuro> argument. n. A fact or statement used to support a proposition; a reason.
<daftykins> seems a bit extreme to get down to dictionary definitions
<neuro> i didn't say we were having *a* argument :)
<daftykins> true
<neuro> you're twisting the meaning of the word, it seemed a reasonable thing to do
<daftykins> we've somewhat tangented now though
<neuro> well, *you* did ;)
<neuro> making me use wiktionary for goodness sake ;)
<daftykins> ultimately i think a judgement of a phone based on one poor software utility it comes with that might be useful for some uses is a bit weak
 * neuro sighs
<daftykins> problem? :)
<Myrtti> "I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices. I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices. I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices." etc.
<neuro> kies being crap was one data point from many
<neuro> or did you not read what I wrote?
<daftykins> oh yeah you did have other things
<neuro> "screen too unwieldy, too plasticky, battery life awful, nasty OS, etc etc"
<daftykins> Myrtti: too true
<Myrtti> (main reason why I don't is because I loathe the extra stuff the manufacturers smack on the Android, like the necessity of using stupid apps to do interaction between phone and computer
<Myrtti> )
<neuro> Myrtti: it was a good deal at the time
<penguin42> Myrtti: I put cyanogenmod on my cheap phone - actually that's one reason I bought it
<daftykins> android back then is quite different to android today
<neuro> i wanted a non-personal phone to use for business stuff
<neuro> ended up upgrading to an iphone 4s and using my old iphone 4 for that purpose
<daftykins> i could never get on with iOS, it's pretty terrible at feedback
<neuro> feedback?
<daftykins> yeah, like whether it's working on a process or not
<neuro> um
<neuro> ok?
<daftykins> you're pretty rude neuro.
<neuro> i'm not, you're just being economical with the things you're saying :)
<daftykins> sometimes it'll just sit there like you didn't do anything, then maybe flash an error ages afterwards if you're for example - setting up an email account or something similar
<daftykins> same with a lot of OS X software in fact
<daftykins> there's very little visual representation that it's 'working'
<neuro> i just set up a mail account on my phone
<neuro> i got a spinner with text telling me what it was doing when it was doing stuff
<neuro> "Verifying ..."
<neuro> "Adding account ..."
<daftykins> hah
<neuro> and usually when there is network activity while it's doing Stuff, a spinner appears in the top status bar
<daftykins> depends what OS versions we're talking i guess
<neuro> hah?
<neuro> whatever the latest greatest is
<neuro> it's always done that IME
<daftykins> well surely you can see the futility of that one comparison
<neuro> nope?
<daftykins> seriously?
<neuro> enlighten me then?
<daftykins> i don't know, i'm not sure that that would be a valid use of time
<neuro> so you're telling me i'm wrong because you say so?
<daftykins> ultimately it boils down to the 'it works for me'
<neuro> excuse me while i don't put much weight on that :)
<neuro> you said the feedback was terrible
<neuro> i just ran through the scenario you mentioned
<neuro> the feedback seemed acceptable (yes, to me)
<Myrtti> so, who's awaiting for the new doctor then?
<neuro> i'm not sure how much more feedback would have been required
<daftykins> neuro: right but you're making a big jump to assume that what you're seeing is what i was seeing in my example
<daftykins> neuro: if you were working on a bug tracker would you tell all the people that their bugs are invalid because it 'works for me' ? :P
<neuro> sure, but i'm not sure how much different it could have been to be honest
<neuro> it would depend how many people responded with "works for me"
<neuro> and that's sometimes a valid response, as it permits responders and the submitter to work in different directions to find out what the root cause is, since it's either a non-repeatable issue or something wrong with the submitter's system
<neuro> s/repeatable/reproducable/ is what i meant to say there
<Myrtti> no one?
<neuro> Myrtti: couldn't care less tbh
<daftykins> Myrtti: not a fan i'm afraid
<neuro> i've gone right off who lately
<Myrtti> so a duck walked into a pub
<daftykins> quack.
<neuro> especially with their DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUN end to the last episode
<neuro> LET'S PUT TEXT ALL OVER THE SCREEN, THAT WILL BE AWESOME
<neuro> childish
<daftykins> 0o
<daftykins> you are an odd one
<neuro> excuse me?
<Myrtti> and the barkeep asked what he wanted, and the duck said a beer please
<Myrtti> having served the beer to the duck he asked "how are you going to pay for it, you don't have pockets for the money"
<Myrtti> "put it on my bill"
<neuro> saw that coming a mile away :D
<Myrtti> yeah, that was kinda the point
<neuro> daftykins: please do elaborate on why i'm "odd"
<neuro> Myrtti: a horse walks into a bar
<daftykins> probably safer if i leave it there
<Myrtti> a photon walks into a hotel
<daftykins> plus LAS has almost started
<neuro> no, really
<neuro> i'm interested
<Myrtti> "do you have any luggage, sir?" "no, I'm traveling light"
<neuro> ha
<penguin42> neuro: Actually, the horse walked into a macdonalds: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23403935
<neuro> what the ...
<neuro> why not tie up the horses and go inside?
<neuro> were they planning on eating their mcdonalds while riding away from the drive through?!
<daftykins> it was a complaint about the policy regarding drive-throughs
<daftykins> because you have to be in a car, which is quite frankly retarded
<Myrtti> so a motorbike wouldn't be allowed then?
<neuro> the drive through lane is for motor vehicles
<daftykins> motorbikes aren't allowed either from what i remember reading, nah
<neuro> some mcdonalds now have the lanes blocked off on the other side from the restaurant by parts of the car prk
<daftykins> i only briefly encountered this thing when i was at Uni
<daftykins> 'cause we don't have mcdonalds etc. down here
<daftykins> so i thought to myself once, hey why does the drive-through stay open later? can i cycle over and queue up? apparently not
<daftykins> never tried though
<neuro> http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/whatmakesmcdonalds/questions/running-the-business/drive-thru/why-cant-you-serve-pedestrians-at-the-drive-thru.html
<neuro> and yes, they serve people on bikes and mopeds
<neuro> just not pedestrians or bicycles
<neuro> or horses
<daftykins> pretty daft imo
<neuro> not really
<neuro> insurance rationale most likely
<neuro> the hassle if someone got hit by a car in the drive through lane would likely be epic
<neuro> best just to have it laid down by policy that you can only be served from a motor vehicle
<daftykins> it's common sense daft
<daftykins> not bureacratic crap daft
<neuro> it's common sense, full stop
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> wow you really are a one.
<daftykins> k i'm off to other channels
<neuro> what's your deal, sir?
<neuro> are you trolling me or something?
<neuro> clearly, the answer was "yes"
<daftykins> lmao
<penguin42> apparently they were worried that horses might be startled by the motor vehicles
<shauno> a bit late to the party, but I used to walk-thru kfc's drive-thru
<penguin42> so we have reference data for mcdonalds and kfc - any others?
<penguin42> shauno: Did you try it on a horse?
<shauno> insufficiently equipped for the task I'm afraid
<daftykins> horses=0
<SuperEngineer> ...and the new Dr. Who is.... @linus_torvalds - & will be known as "the swearing Dr". [just pipped Mark Shuttleworth! at the post apparently]
<ali1234> i would watch that
<ali1234> it's the guy from luther though right?
<MooDoo> lol
<ali1234> i guess not
 * penguin42 wiggles finger wildly trying to get something to crash on a touchscreen
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: take that finger out of there of there you naughty person!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: But I was making my (x)eyes go crosseyed!
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: :D
<SuperEngineer> Has anyone tried Leisure Suite Larry on Steam in Ubuntu yet?
 * penguin42 notes IMDBs entry for Peter Capaldi states that in World War Z he played the W.H.O. Doctor
<SuperEngineer> [as in - does it l=play or would I be wasting my pennies?]
<SuperEngineer> *play
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: that's good/clever research. like it!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You have to wonder if they knew that when they cast him
<ali1234> i still can't figure out what was supposed to have happened in the last two series
<penguin42> ali1234: You weren't supposed to , you were just supposed to have watched it
<ali1234> i feel like i missed an episode
<ali1234> or several
<ali1234> actually come to think of it's been that way since david tennant
<neuro> can't wait for all the kiddies to go googling for peter capaldi ... this is the first video that shows up in the results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjAyazqtQj8
<neuro> danger, tis a malcolm tucker video
<neuro> hence VERY VERY sweary
<neuro> but VERY VERY good
<neuro> for less sweariness, i leave you with the happy plane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zVVKXT8Vi0
<directhex> hm, neil gaiman retweets ubuntu edge
<directhex> that's gotta be worth a few thou
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-28
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> morning sir
<SuperMatt> yo
<SuperMatt> what lovely weather we're having
<diplo> That it is, keep it up I say!
<SuperMatt> keep what up?
<diplo> The weather!
<daftykins> he's suggesting it'd be nice the weather stay good
<diplo> Lots complaining about it, but I'd rather have it stay
<daftykins> honestly what is with people today and being unable to follow one sentence onto another :P
<daftykins> i've not been able to cope personally
<Myrtti> SuperMatt: I'm happy it's a miserable day for a while
<Myrtti> nice to have a bit cooler days with a bit of rain, the lawn benefits
<daftykins> i have a 17th century townhouse with no insulation, my bedroom was practically 30 deg C yesterday
<SuperMatt> diplo: I was confused cos I was being sarcastic as the weather here is terrible right now
<diplo> Really, oh.. clear blues skies all over here in the SW :)
<diplo> Yesterday was a lot cooler though but it's going to be hot hot hot! today
<bashrc> it's quite tropical
<Myrtti> and of course there's a hot air front coming to Finland when I'm flying over
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Milk Chocolate Day! :-D
<daftykins> happy what now O_O
<JamesTait> Milk Chocolate Day.
<JamesTait> But I only have dark chocolate here.
<daftykins> oh you're not one of them are you :(
<daftykins> just bite a chunk off, then drink some milk
<daftykins> :D
<JamesTait> Works for me.
<JamesTait> I ate all the milk chocolate already.
<JamesTait> Or did I...?
 * JamesTait raids cupboard, finds Minstrels.
<SuperMatt> that's quite a small place for them
<JamesTait> And yet there they were, strumming away.
<daftykins> upturned tipping hat and all?
<daftykins> :)
<SuperMatt> that's dedication for you
<SuperMatt> today my cupboards mostly contain wagon wheels, which you would expect would be too big for them too
<SuperMatt> I wonder if our cupboards are quite tardisesque
<JamesTait> Tardisesque.  Now that's a good word.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I have mint M&M's I think I might have to eat those
<JamesTait> It'd be rude not to.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7xx5vgmh7idtm3/IMG_20140728_102339.jpg
<daftykins> what's in the box!? that's in the box!
<Hei> hei guys! I have two questions! First: i have ubuntu 12.04 installed, would it be correct and safe for the machine to run the update manager -d to install the 14.04 version?
<Hei> The second question is: how many gb would use the upgrading?
<SuperMatt> 1) yes, 2) I don't know, but I don't think it'd be that much. I'd allow for 5, just in case, but it all depends how many packages you have instsalled
<popey> no
<Hei> 5gb?
<popey> open update manager and it should prompt you to update to 14.04
<popey> you shouldn't need the -d
<popey> I'd imagine about 800MB to download for a typical upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04, as SuperMatt says, depends on how much you have installed
<Hei> Yeah because now it shows me that the 12.10 is available
<Hei> Not the 14.04
<Hei> Perfect!
<SuperMatt> an, if you change /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades from normal to lts, it should allow you to upgrade
<SuperMatt> between lts
<Myrtti> I wish there was somewhere I could follow on how or if I can get 1404 on this laptop
<Hei> And, just in case... If I would insert the bootable pendrive into the machine while booting.... Could i choose an option to upgrade directly from there?
<Hei> 'Cause I have dual boot with win7
<Hei> Anybody there?
<Hei> :)
<Hei> Well now i must go... Thanks guys! See you soon!
<daftykins> Hei: also you better not have any PPAs
<Myrtti> I thought they were disabled during the process
<arsen> i think it disables non-critical repos
<arsen> it did with mine, but then error'd, "rolled back", and rebooted to an updated system :D
<daftykins> well Lenovo, i am not impressed with your NAS so far
<daftykins> out of the box, plugged in, i can SEE you on the network, i know your IP... i see your open ports (80 and 443) yet neither web browsers or your configuration utility can find it
<daftykins> speak to me!
<arsen> clearly it doesn't fancy you.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> perhaps i need to buy it a drink
<daftykins> the program is all "sorry dafty, this princess is on another subnet"
<daftykins> er what, i only have the one!
<daftykins> alright i'm going IT Crowd on its' shiny metal posterior
<daftykins> yaaay she's alive!
<arsen> :)
<arsen> whatcha do
<daftykins> turned it off and on again XD
<arsen> swish.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7xx5vgmh7idtm3/IMG_20140728_102339.jpg
<daftykins> Â£105 delivered from ebuyer, factoring in a Â£35 cashback program from Lenovo
<arsen> not shabby
<daftykins> wowzer, you think a point release of firmware is going to be minor
<daftykins> whole UI re-design O_O
<daftykins> whilst that was doing that, i've successfully unlocked my mates iPhone 4 which i fixed \o/
<diplo> OK, having issues with dns server
<diplo> from a shared host with load issues
<diplo> Who do we recommend now for domain records ?
<diplo> Ghandi ?
<diplo> gandi*
<diplo> 53 domains to move
<nigelb> gandi is good.
<diplo> yeah I use them ( albeit not very much ) personally.. thought I'd see if any other recommendations before I start moving / open an account
<nigelb> at work we use gandi
<nigelb> but dns is done through dnsmadeeasy.com
<diplo> looking at them now ta
<engineer_> I'm upgrading ubuntu.... It says that it will download about 1000M --> it equal to 1GB isn't it?
<engineer_> *it is
<diplo> Close enough yes
<engineer_> Ok!
<engineer_> Thanks
<foobarry> didn't fit on my usb stick though
<daftykins> seriously?
<foobarry> yep, 1GB stick
<foobarry> 64 bit 14.04 desktop
<daftykins> that's pretty ghetto sir
<daftykins> i just picked up a 32GB USB3 with high speeds for Â£15 the other day
<foobarry> sure, but i have lots of usb sticks for distro purposes that are 1gb
<foobarry> that were FREEEEE
<engineer_> 32gb????
<engineer_> I have 2gb ram
<daftykins> lol.
<engineer_> You'd prefer installing a 32bit o.s. or 64bit o.s.?
<engineer_> Whith 2gb of ram?
<daftykins> 32
<foobarry> 32gb rAM = 64 bit OS
<foobarry> 2GB ram , possibly 32bit
<foobarry> depends really
<foobarry> on what you are doing
<foobarry> server? 64 bit
<daftykins> engineer_: if you'd ever consider upgrading it, choosing 32-bit now could bite you on the ass of course
<engineer_> Because now i have a 64 bit ubuntu but when i go to the system monitor I see that it uses about 1/4 of ram ad 0%of swap...
<daftykins> www.linuxatemyram.com
<daftykins> bear in mind that's how Linux operates
<daftykins> unused RAM = wasted RAM
<engineer_> daftykins... Why i could bite me on the ass?
<daftykins> because to address 4GB+ you'd ideally want to be running 64-bit
<daftykins> so if you upgraded you'd be all "damn, i should've gone with 64-bit"
<Myrtti> you can't switch between architectures without reinstalling the whole thing.
<daftykins> Myrtti: you've been dangerously on topic this morning ;)
<engineer_> Ok!
<Myrtti> one has to try every now and then. I've realised few days back I tend to be ontopic only on #freenode of all my channels
<Myrtti> I'm usually offtopic even in my knitting channel since I've lost my knitting mojo
 * popey just bought one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0069V248K
<popey> for installing and stuff
<popey> will chuck a spare SSD in it and fill it with ISOs
<diddledan> popey: that is a really good idea
<popey> especially as it's USB3
<daftykins> i remember reading hit and miss comments about that thing
<SuperMatt> oh, so you just tell it which ISO you want to use and you can boot from that?
<SuperMatt> that's damn neat, I could do with on of those
<SuperMatt> because I'm contantly switching out usb sticks
<popey> yeah, you put the isos in an _ISO folder on it, and then pick one to boot from with the jog-wheel on the side
<popey> it presents that as a bootable cdrom and you boot off it
<SuperMatt> it's not a bad price neither
<daftykins> thing is can you not just do the same with GRUB and a folder of ISOs too?
<SuperMatt> probably what it's doing :P
<daftykins> YUMI is all well and good but it breaks so much :/
<popey> you need to update the grub each time you add one
<daftykins> yeah, small price to pay though
<popey> nah
<popey> i want to just drop an iso on a drive and plug that into a machine
<popey> not faff about with config
<SuperMatt> ^ this
<daftykins> fair enough, i suppose being as i deal with stuff at the end-user point i wouldn't be changing media often
<popey> yeah, I'm getting new builds every day
<mapps> cant wait to go to russia now
<mapps> :>
<mapps> gonna have to get a new super warm coat -6 -> -10 sounds quite cold
<SuperMatt> MAN UP MAPPS
<mapps> lol
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> shorts and t-shirt mate
<daftykins> i thought you were from the north
<daftykins> (just made that up)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> im as southern as they come
<mapps> furthest north ive been is manchester;p4
<mapps> the north's horribl :D
<diddledan> north is fine except that it's full of northerners </troll>
<davmor2> mapps: I beg to differ, we met a guy in Lizzard point and the furthest he'd ever travelled was ST Austell
<davmor2> diddledan: what you classing as North
<diddledan> davmor2: anything further up than the m4
<popey> +1
<foobarry> anything north of watford
<davmor2> diddledan: oh so the north of London is North.  I think you'll find the Northerns will take great offence stake you out and cover you in fire ants if you include London in North ;)
<foobarry> why is there an leaflet for bluray in my dvd case?
<foobarry> are they still charging more for bluray?
<diddledan> foobarry: yes
<davmor2> foobarry: Blurays are now the cost of dvds this time last year
<foobarry> confused
<foobarry> whts teh % change from last yr to this for dvds?
<Azelphur> gah, Dominos are annoying as hell. I made one pizza order ever in London, they continually spam my phone with text advertising, and the optout service doesn't work
<Azelphur> :@
<foobarry> dvds are aroudn a tenner?
<davmor2> foobarry: the dvd's are still slightly cheaper than the blurays
<foobarry> Azelphur: ofcom
<davmor2> foobarry: dvd are 8-10 bluray is 12-15
<Azelphur> foobarry: could do
<foobarry> they don't release bluray same time as dvd eitehr, right?
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/fdQsJH60 is the kinda crap they sent, I'm curious if anyone else can text it, but at the same time I don't want to subscribe any other poor soul to their spam list
<Azelphur> whenever I try and text the optout number, my phone says "Message not sent" >.>
<davmor2> foobarry: yes they do
<davmor2> foobarry: both are released at the same time
<foobarry> Azelphur: what's this site? http://uk-book.info/
<foobarry> seems to be peoples private phone bokos
<foobarry> one person had the dominos number as carlos jones
<Azelphur> weird
<foobarry> http://uk-book.info/48/55/hunt-valerie.php
<foobarry> under J
<selinuxium> Hi all   o/
<Azelphur> foobarry: strange
<foobarry> yes, very
<foobarry> the internet is weird
<foobarry> even if the cats tried to make it look normal
<davmor2> foobarry: not normal, cute and cuddly is what the cats and pupies are meant to do to the internet and then the shark gets you
<Azelphur> foobarry: sent them a complaint, they message me every few days now, so annoying. I don't even live anywhere near Tolworth
<foobarry> i asked a job agency to take me off their spam list
<foobarry> as per the data protiection act, i emailed their compliance address
<foobarry> do you think it didn anything?
<diddledan> Azelphur: my vodafone seemed to send ok to that number
<Azelphur> diddledan: strange, my phone won't send to it
<diddledan> Azelphur: unless I just sent it to you? :-p
<Azelphur> nope xD
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/k2hduzwtr7g8459/2014-07-28%2015.26.42.png
<diddledan> odd
<diddledan> I used an iphone
<diddledan> let me try on an android
<Azelphur> I wonder if it's some kind of premium rate number / not included in my mobile plan
<diddledan> it sent via my android too
<diddledan> on a different network - 3
<foobarry> i've had issues where you can't text a number
<foobarry> you have to take it out of all known address books and delete all messages
<foobarry> from the number
<foobarry> weird htc sense bug that my wifes phone inherited after migrating across to moto
<Azelphur> that number was never in my contact list and I hadn't sent it any messages before, and I don't have a HTC
<Azelphur> xD
<davmor2> Azelphur: try changing the 0 to +44
<diddledan> I've never understood why mobile phones use a + instead of 00
<diddledan> I know it makes it look easier to the eye
<diddledan> but I figured international dialing should be the same on all phones
<Azelphur> davmor2: my phone changes it back to a zero
<davmor2> Azelphur: get a phone that works ;)
<Myrtti> diddledan: because not all countries use 00 convention
<diddledan> Myrtti: aah
<diddledan> Myrtti: thanks, that makes sense
<Azelphur> davmor2: haha
<Myrtti> Finland used 990 until mid 90's
<Myrtti> and then the government regulation was pulled down, different companies got their own foreign exchanges and their own call codes
<davmor2> Myrtti: let me guess they changed it to 999 to confuse the hell out of the uk telecommunications industry
<diddledan> I guess the cellular standards were invented after people had already made a mess of international dialing so they tried to unify it somewhat
<diddledan> davmor2: lol
<Myrtti> + is, If I've understood it right, translated by the network to whatever the company's foreign exchange number is
<Myrtti> davmor2: no, 990 is still usable, as is 999 and other codes starting with 9
<Myrtti> but 00 works too, as does +
<Myrtti> 000 used to be Finnish emergency shortcode
<Myrtti> it's more sensibly 112 now
<diddledan> most if not all of europe has a 112 response these days IIRC
<Myrtti> yup
<diddledan> even britain does despite retaining 999
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> back in the day of analogue rotary dial it made no sense ever to have 000 or 999 as the emergency numbers, so the only reason I can think they were chosen was to actually prevent people to call them
<foobarry> now its the opposite
<foobarry> 1yr olds generaly do it best
<foobarry> although if you have chopped off your hands then poking a stick inthe holes for 999 dial isnt too hard
<bigcalm> 999 because it's the most effort to turn the dial
<diddledan> Myrtti: the rumour in the uk is that 999 was chosen because it was the hardest sequence to reproduce via wind bashing the lines causing electronic pulses which would activate pulse-dialing
<Myrtti> mm
<foobarry> wonder if true or an invented fact that sounds like it has a ring of truth
<diddledan> foobarry: I don't know whether it's true but it would make sense if it is
 * bigcalm reads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/999_(emergency_telephone_number)#History
<foobarry> my android phone can't do emergency calls with locked keypad
<foobarry> oh, it works now
<bigcalm> "The GSM standard mandates that the user of a GSM phone can dial 112 without unlocking the keypad"
<bigcalm> Just got to that bit in the history :)
<foobarry> will take 3hrs to copy some files to my usb stick
<davmor2> bigcalm: 999 and 112 and 911 should all be callable with a locked phone or I believe a phone with no sim.  I'm not prepared to put those to the test though
<bigcalm> davmor2: "Originally a valid SIM card was not required to make a 999/112 emergency call in the UK. However, as a result of high numbers of untraceable hoax calls being made, this feature is now blocked by all UK networks. Most UK mobile telephone handsets will dial 999/112 without a SIM inserted (or with a locked/invalid SIM), but the call will not be connected."
<bigcalm> davmor2: and "It has been reported[by whom?] that some mobile phone handsets sold in the United Kingdom may connect calls dialled as 911 to the GSM standard emergency number 112.[citation needed] It is also possible that 911 may be mapped inappropriately to emergency services in some VoIP equipment or private networks.[citation needed] However, the digits 911 could form the start of a normal local number in the United Kingdom, so th
<davmor2> ah fair enough
<bigcalm> e code is not supported by the public telephone networks. This is simply a quirk of programming. 911 is not the official number and cannot be relied upon in case of an emergency."
<foobarry> americans at it again
<bigcalm> "On dialling 999 or 112 an operator at BT, Cable & Wireless or Level 3 Communications will answer and ask, "Emergency. Which service?"[citation needed] "
<bigcalm> They really need citation for that?
 * bigcalm pulls himself away from the time sink that is Wikipedia
<foobarry> http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/calling_999/what_happens_when_you_call_999.aspx
<Myrtti> everything in Wikipedia should be sourced
<foobarry> citation there ^^
<diddledan> I feel like plastering citation required on every damned sentence on wikipedia just to be an ass about that stupid tag
<foobarry> ctrl-f "
<foobarry> every quote
<foobarry> maybe its a bot
<Myrtti> ...
<bigcalm> 1 + 1 = 2 [citation needed]
<diddledan> they seem to put it on the most inane of things at time
<diddledan> s*
<foobarry> bigcalm said "1+1=2"
<diddledan> bigcalm: exactly
<Myrtti> you're insulting my past personality of a wikipedia admin :-( I has the sads.
 * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
<diddledan> Myrtti: obviously it's not all the time :-)
<foobarry> i wonder if Myrtti tidies her friends houses
 * diddledan cuddles Myrtti too
<Myrtti> I haven't cleaned up even my own articles to be hones
<foobarry> high fives Myrtti
<diddledan> lol
<Myrtti> t
<dutchie> bigcalm: that one annoys me too, when there's a full mathematical proof there and they slap a citation needed on i
<foobarry> "
<dutchie> t
<foobarry> just closing that quote i put earlier because i felt uncomfortable
<foobarry> agh home time
<diddledan> foobarry: never leave your quotes unquoted
<bigcalm> \o/
<foobarry> i'll quote you on that
<bigcalm> How is it home time?!
<davmor2> Myrtti: here look a cat scaring itself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc-tc160HRM are you feeling better now?
<diddledan> davmor2: I believe you've just found the cutest thing on the internets
<bigcalm> Not really, the kitten is in distress
<diddledan> it's not in a dress!
<Myrtti> hm.
<Myrtti> it would appear the fuse has blown off our subwoof
<Myrtti> no bass drop when listening to skrillex :-<<<<<<
<davmor2> Myrtti: then replace the fuse ;)
<Myrtti> I would but the plug is underneath the tv stand
<diddledan> there's a hole in my bucket, dear liza
<Myrtti> I do however have spare fuses in my handbag
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> because why not?
<diddledan> every woman needs spare fuses in her handbag
<Myrtti> (we bought some last week and I put them in my handbag instead of leaving a small pack rattling on the bottom of a foreverbag and forgetting it there)
<Myrtti> (instead I forgot it into my handbag)
<diddledan> :-)
<Myrtti> which is a better place to forget it into than one of the n+1 reusable bags we've got
<davmor2> Myrtti: haha
<Myrtti> today while scrambling to collect the recycling I've already discovered in the reusable bags: 3 Fray Bentos Steak and Ale pies, 1 tube of Original Source tea tree and mint body wash, 1 pump bottle of hand soap, half a bag of strawberry, cherry and peach yoghurt flavoured boiled candies
<davmor2> Myrtti: have you thought about maybe putting the shopping away when you get home with it ;)
<Myrtti> I'm afraid that any attempt of replying to that question would reveal the serious uptight old woman that I am.
<Myrtti> yes, your point is valid, but we are still lacking in cupboard and storage space.
<davmor2> Myrtti: hahaha,   but on a more important note, you're not that old.
<Myrtti> you should see my wrinkle cream arsenal.
<Myrtti> oh.
<Myrtti> someone had pulled the plug on the subwoof
<diddledan> Myrtti: one less fuse replacement required
<popey> "someone"
<Myrtti> well it wasn't me but it could've been the BT technician or D
<Myrtti> probably aforementioned on the instructions of the former
<Myrtti> aw man...
<Myrtti> now someone can play Destiny Beta with the subwoofer.
<Myrtti> damnit
<Myrtti> popey: it was a tradeoff between FTTC and subwoof for a few weeks, apparently.
<diddledan> node-xmpp-client is not fun. it basically says "here's xml" and asks "give me xml to send". completely useless as a "library" at abstraction
<MartijnVdS> wheeeee
<MartijnVdS> 7.5 hours of driving is LOOONG
<markie-> one day i will attemp 3 hours of driving on the motorway on a motorbike
<popey> MartijnVdS: where you been?
<diddledan> allo mapps
<shauno_> evening diddledan
<diddledan> you're not mapps
<diddledan> ello, though, anywho
<shauno_> I'm not, usually :)
<diddledan> I don't think you can ever be described as usually
<mapps> hey
<mapps> went to uttoxeter
<diddledan> o_O
<mapps> my 'friend' stiched me up
<mapps> i was waiting fo him
<mapps> paid 60 gbp taxi on my own
<mapps> :<
<diddledan> grr at him
<mapps> well
<mapps> he made a big mistake
<mapps> he owes me 130 quid...for the apartment in riga
<mapps> but thats ok
<mapps> he isnt coming now
<mapps> ive got the flight tickets
<mapps> not having a 'mate' leave me
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dutchie> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> Happy JamesTait say
<SuperMatt> *day
<popey> Failure.
<SuperMatt> I know
<SuperMatt> that's why it's JamesTait day
 * SuperMatt runs
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Rain Day! :-D
<foobarry> slaps JamesTait
<JamesTait> Ow!
<foobarry> more sunshine!
<Myrtti> but rain is good
<JamesTait> I like rain.
<foobarry> not till after my holiday
<foobarry> unfortunately bbc are predicting rain every day
<JamesTait> My first week off is next week.  We're planning a trip to the beach on Saturday.  The weather forecast just suggested that the closer to the weekend we get, the more prolonged the rain showers will be.
<popey> we had amazing weather last week (sorry)
<foobarry> slaps everybody
<popey> never had a british holiday with such good weather
<JamesTait> YOU'RE WELCOME!
<popey> :D
<foobarry> last time we went to devon in sumnmer it rained every single day
<foobarry> in fact every year the weather sucks
<foobarry> i'm the rain god from h2g2g
<popey> Rob McKenna
<foobarry> yup
<popey> not listened to that for a while, I should.
<davmor2> popey: you should try it more often
<popey> it?
<davmor2> holidaying in the uk :)
<popey> i do it every year
<popey> pretty much
<JamesTait> We generally just do day trips for a couple of weeks.
<foobarry> if my wife didn't insist on booking up 6 mo's in advance i would take a late notice holiday when the weather was looking good
<Myrtti> I had to book in my holiday in April for the summer
<diplo> My holiday still isn't booked and I've taken the time off work with the kids the last week in August... really ought to sort something
<diplo> :)
<diplo> I'm also going away this weekend and haven't sorted stuff yet, most unorganised I've been in years!
 * MartijnVdS is back home :)
<MartijnVdS> St Malo - Home is a longer drive than I expected.
<foobarry> memories of eric rohmer films
<foobarry> waves at MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> \o foobarry
<MartijnVdS> also.. there was a speck of dust on my lens :(
<foobarry> the whole week?
<MartijnVdS> most of it
<foobarry> oh noes. no auto dust cleaning mode?
<MartijnVdS> my camera does, and the sensor is OK.. but the lens had a bit on it
<MartijnVdS> I can probably gimp around it though
<MartijnVdS> if I stop being lazy and actually learn how to use gimp for other things than cropping and rotating ;)
<foobarry> heal tool
<MartijnVdS> http://thecodelesscode.com/case/155
<foobarry> in chrome, GPU process  is eating 80% of CPU, what is that all abot?
<foobarry> no tab in particular
<Myrtti> there was a discussion on the knitting channel over games and gaming
<Myrtti> my mind was blown when there was a discussion over XBox One and someone said they had preordered theirs.
<Myrtti> "what"
<Myrtti> turns out XBox One is released in Finland officially in September.
<Myrtti> "The change, which pushed the release date for the other 8 markets to 2014, was attributed to unforeseen complexity in localizing the new Kinect peripheral."
<foobarry> something to do with herring i expect
<Myrtti> MIDDAY EDUCATIONAL MOMENT! https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wof0xPUmW38
<popey> hah
<popey> thats brilliant
<Ghostjin> hello people!!!
<Ghostjin> hello?
<Myrtti> yes?
 * awilkins is Soylent Green
<Myrtti> oooohhhh
<Myrtti> my scissors arrived
<davmor2> Myrtti: For a second then I thought you were ooohhhhing awilkings is Soylent Green comment I'm glad you added the scissors line :D
<Myrtti> it's like Christmas today
<Myrtti> my Woolrunners arrived too
<davmor2> Myrtti: you have people who run for your wool wow that's decadence
<Myrtti> davmor2: https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/14589347347/
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/search/?tags=woolrunners&sort=relevance&user_id=78835633%40N00
<Myrtti> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/3over7/the-wool-runners-no-socks-no-smell
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Myrtti> these feel lush
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> popey: fancy a beer at the weekend?
<popey> you in the area?
<bigcalm> I'll be on a train
<popey> uh
<bigcalm> You've double booked Saturday night?
<popey> no
<popey> dunno where my ticket is
<bigcalm> Phew
<popey> is it this weekend?
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> hehe
<bigcalm> 2nd August
<popey> where's moodoo?
<Myrtti> busy in his new job
<bigcalm> What is it with you and RAT ticket?! :P
<popey> its more someone tidying things up
<popey> I'll find it, no doubt
<bigcalm> Damn those tidy people!
<funkyHat> Someone sitting near me at work has lunch that smells like a dustbin lorry Dâ¢
<bigcalm> Finally found the booking confirmation for my hotel
<popey> well, turned my desk upside down and cant find it
<diplo> Wifey put it in a safe place ?
<diplo> My Ex always used to do that, "I've put in a safe place, I know I have!"
<popey> yeah, she claims to have not seen it though
<bigcalm> Just found out that I've already paid for my hotel as well. Happy days
<Myrtti> hihi :->
<bigcalm> Just need to find some beer tokens now :S
<bigcalm> And some cash for a taxi ride
<Myrtti> these might be straight out of the box most comfy shoes I've ever had
<DJones> Heh, listening to Discworld audiobooks love the line "Give a man a fire he's warm for a day, set him on fire he's warm for the rest of his life"
<diddledan> makes sense to me
<diddledan> I need to set more folk on fire methinks
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: thanks for that tip about the heal tool
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: my pictures are mostly dust spot free now :)
<foobarry> heh
 * davmor2 sets diddledan on fire......sorry did I miss the point I thought that's what you were asking for ;)
<foobarry> care to show one that will make me jealous for being in an office?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: bringing a webcam with you on the RAT this year?
<bigcalm> If I can work out how to adapt the power for mine for a USB battery, I might bring mine
<dutchie> aww, rat all sold out
<bigcalm> It did so months ago
<bigcalm> I started organising this year's event in Feb (I think)
<dutchie> yeah, too busy with finals to book it
<bigcalm> Are you old enough to legally drink ale now? :P
<dutchie> i was 22 last thursday!
<bigcalm> Have you grown a beard and smoke a pipe?
<bigcalm> I think these are still requirements for ale drinking
<dutchie> i did the first one briefly
<bigcalm> Yes, was amused by the photos ;)
<dutchie> i even had a moustache for about 36 hours
<dutchie> turns out allowing your facebook friends to vote on your facial hair is a bad idea if you don't like looking like a someone who can't go within 200m of a school
<bigcalm> Haha
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: you have this problem now?
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<davmor2> oh nice I forgot about Fairground the Rollo and sister bliss mix
<dutchie> http://i.imgur.com/J6gxLbz.jpg
<dutchie> it even scares me
<bigcalm> o.O
<MartijnVdS> ð±
<MartijnVdS> (U+1F631 FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR)
<directhex> needs glasses with giant plastic rims
<dutchie> heh
<davmor2> directhex: and a ford capri
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: how do you type that?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: with gucharmap
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: cheater
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: or Ctrl+Shift+U 1f631 <space>
<diddledan> davmor2: don't you mean a ford prefect?
<davmor2> diddledan: no
<MartijnVdS> A flying ford anglia?
<bigcalm> ð±
<bigcalm> My my
<diddledan> ð½
<diddledan> :-p
<bigcalm> That doesn't render in Ubuntu font
<MartijnVdS> alien!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: get Symbola
<diddledan> they've got fancy colouring in os x
<bigcalm> But I like Ubuntu
<diddledan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2m09x5gzndw5xdy/Screenshot%202014-07-29%2014.51.48.png
<diddledan> retina screenies ftw
<diddledan> I need a retina desktop monitor
<foobarry> lunchtime sunshine made me tired
<foobarry> need zzzz
<foobarry> i was coping with my rubbish nights sleep until then
<bigcalm> Funky
<bigcalm> diddledan: ^
<diddledan> speaking of retina - apple launched new macbook pros today
<diddledan> mainly a speedbump
<davmor2> diddledan: man if they are as big as a speedbump I'm not interested
<DJones> Azelphur: Was it you that was doing some research on OKCupid? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28543248?ocid=socialflow_twitter
<Azelphur> DJones: yup haha
<foobarry> "research"
<Azelphur> DJones: this Berni Good guy isn't that smart either, he seems to think hobbies dictate compatibility
<foobarry> in a sense...
<diddledan> <-- hobbies: sitting on a chair staring at a screen in the dark
<foobarry> my wife's knitting and female geekery in croceht and wool spinning matches my linux geekery and scale model making
<diddledan> foobarry: but they're not identical!?! you should never have got along!
<diddledan> :-p
<foobarry> oggcamp is comparable to woolfest*
<diddledan> lol
 * DJones wonders if he's married to foobarry's other half, thats the same hobbies my wife has
<foobarry> bought her a spinning wheel today
<DJones> Rudder admits that "OKCupid doesn't really know what it's doing".... ok, so it just depicts real life then
 * foobarry best husband in the world , for 1 day
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> go foobarry !
<foobarry> and it wasn't even her birthday
<diddledan> it's nice to be "that guy" every so often
<Azelphur> DJones: I think OKCupids algorithm is great at determining someone you will be friends with, but nothing more
<foobarry> i've never seen a dating site
<diplo> Azelphur, I sort of agree with that
<foobarry> a male and female that both like beer could be fatal
<Azelphur> for example, I had my best friend sign up to it out of curiosity and answer a bunch of questions, we got like 94% match
<diplo> I became friends with a few people I met on there, but also did date someone fora  year
<foobarry> Azelphur: was it a guy?
<Azelphur> foobarry: yea
<foobarry> sounds like a very narrow concept of matching
<Azelphur> foobarry: it's trying to mathematically predict emotional constructs, what do you expect? XD
<foobarry> as i say , hobbies have their equivalents, but that takes a bit of life experience to see what the equivalents are
<directhex> similar traits seems to be the dictionary definition of matching
<foobarry> e.g. both like cinema
<foobarry> i love cinema but i hate hollywood trash, would ok cupid ask about types of film?
<diddledan> I love hollywood trash :-p
<directhex> they could settle on one question
<foobarry> most people would consider that i didn't like cinema as a result of my disparaging views on hollywood
<foobarry> maybe i'm more booky
<directhex> How do you like your women? [covered in bees][in a plastic cup][wat?]
<foobarry> BEEES
<diddledan> directhex: sunny-side up
<Azelphur> foobarry: actually they do, they ask about whether you like horror movies, also apparently the answer to this question is one of the highest statistical indicators of compatibility.
<foobarry> still too generic
<foobarry> there's certain books i've read that i've only ever seen 1 person reading. would i be a match/soulmate?
<Azelphur> foobarry: the main problem however, is even if the algorithm did work, the vast majority of people don't pay any attention when answering the questions
<foobarry> probably for the first 3 dates.
<Azelphur> which is just...stupid.
<directhex> of all dating sites, ok cupid are the only ones who openly blog about fascinating trends in compatibility and behaviours
<directhex> so there's some value to that
<DJones> foobarry: That'd be like "Do you like reading"....Erm Yeah....I like scifi/adventure, wife likes slushy romance/drama
<Azelphur> directhex: indeed, I've read it all and it is very interesting
<directhex> i found the one on race quite sad
<foobarry> which is?
<directhex> tl;dr: black women have it tough in the dating scene
<directhex> there was a matrix for messages sent versus messages replied to, by race. it was all vaguely green, usually a strong correlation between same races. then just a big red line for messages sent by black women
<directhex> http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/
<foobarry> what is "black"?
<foobarry> mixed race is black or mixed race?
<Azelphur> directhex: like if you take my most recent email from okcupid on new matches, the top result, the question "Would you prefer good things happened, or interesting things?" she has answered with Good, and she has also said that my answer of "Good" is unacceptable for a potential partner
 * Azelphur facedesks
<foobarry> you dodged one there
<Azelphur> and again, "Do you enjoy finding out what make things work the way they do?" she has answered "I'm an information sponge" and marked my same answer as unacceptable in a partner
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: time to try tinder instead :P
<Azelphur> this is a fairly common trend, people with highly incoherent answers, I've spoken to one or two women who say they just don't bother to pay attention xD
<foobarry> i know lloads of lovely women who are single
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, tinder strikes me as not enough personality
<foobarry> its a tough market
<Azelphur> foobarry: send some my way ;)
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> seriously, some lovely girls. some might not find a partner either
<foobarry> often the best guys wait for perfect opportunities or shy etc
<foobarry> not v extrovert at showing off , because thats not their style
<MartijnVdS> or afraid because of a history of rejection
<foobarry> also, as alaian de botton says, there's no room for philosophers in a nightclub
<foobarry> nightclubs are a terrible way of finding partners
<popey> i found my wife in one â»
<popey> although technically we'd been lusting for eachother for 5 years before that
<foobarry> my sister did too, and completely against the grain of nightclub clientele
<Azelphur> popey: haha, taking it just a bit slow then :)
<directhex> i found my wife at christian bowling.
<foobarry> lustign at a distance is what geeks do best
<directhex> bring-a-friend-to-convert christian youth social
<popey> didn't speak to her
<foobarry> directhex: is that a modern safer version of christians vs lions
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> that was a bad joke
<popey> first words to her after 5 years of lust was "can I ask you a question?" followed by "if I were to ask you for your phone number, what's the probability you'd give it to me?"
<popey> she said "high" so I grabbed a pen from the bar man and asked for it â»
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> heh
<popey> she went home and next morning told her parents "if someone called Alan phones, I don't live here"
<foobarry> i remember a geeky kid at uni to hot girl: "is it worth me trying to chat you up?"
<popey> because she couldn't remember who she gave the number to
<popey> I called on the sunday (the industry standard 2 days later) and she picked up.. â»
<popey> rest is history
<foobarry> awww
<bigcalm> Awww
<foobarry> first presetn i bought my wife was a monkeh
<foobarry> like the itv digital monkeh
<foobarry> before we were going out
<foobarry> i had one too. they've had babies now
<Azelphur> I just do lots of volunteer work now. It's fun and if I happen to meet someone while doing it it's a bonus :)
<foobarry> do summer fruit picking
<foobarry> loads of cute european types
<Azelphur> hehe
<popey> hah
<directhex> pfft, it's 2014. all the best date prospects can be found on MMOs!
<davmor2> popey: tell the truth, you were in white and rhinestones, walked up to her and in your best southern Accent said "Are you Lonesome tonight?" and after getting her number said "Fank ya very much, ah hu I'm all shook up" ;)
<foobarry> we can't go on together with suspicious minds
<foobarry> has anyone ever heard of or used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_Linux
<diddledan> foobarry: I used it years ago
<diddledan> foobarry: it doesn't work on 64bit windows
<foobarry> yeah i noticed
<foobarry> i can't believe this was a suggestion from our helpdesk
<foobarry> because dual boot or vms are so much harder?
<diddledan> I think also latter windows are prevented from running it because it isn't a signed driver (the kernel part)
<diddledan> it's effectively user-mode linux with a windows host instead of a linux one
<directhex> you can run unsigned kernel code on windows x64... but it has downsides
<directhex> such as the giant warning watermark on the desktop, and it disables other features
<directhex> including hdcp monitors
<MartijnVdS> directhex: unless you find a way to run the unsigned code in some un-authorized way :)
<diddledan> you might as well just run virtualbox and be done with it
<directhex> virtualbox /o\
<diddledan> I know, I know. oracle
<diddledan> :-(
<directhex> it just doesn't work properly IME
<diddledan> but. free.
<foobarry> of course
<diddledan> could pay for vmware workstation
<MartijnVdS> if you have a non-home edition of Windows you can use Windows' own virt stuff
<MartijnVdS> hyperv?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah, hyper-v
<directhex> virtualbox is one of the only times i've had to hack my /var/lib/dpkg/status file to fix dpkg, after it crapped on my package manager
<foobarry> it was a random google search by a numpty in response to a request for linux on teh lab desktop pcs
<directhex> vmware is lovely and does everything, kvm is basic but actually works
<MartijnVdS> hyperv doesn't seem half bad either?
<foobarry> vmawre player is the "lighter" version to run vm
<MartijnVdS> I mean you still need the Windows license to run the "manager"/hypervisor OS.
<MartijnVdS> (ooh, Ars went GNU on their phone -- http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/07/exploring-the-world-of-foss-android-can-a-smartphone-be-open-source/)
<Azelphur> hmm, I dunno what on earth scp is doing. I am copying C:\ from a Windows machine, supposedly the partition only has 65GB used, yet it's transferred 150GB and counting...
<diddledan> well there's your mistake right there. c:\ from windows
<Azelphur> not my machine :)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I'm trolling
<diddledan> trol lol lol lol lol
<diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqdqyvcJtig
<Azelphur> hehe
<foobarry> does 14.04 have wubi still?
<Azelphur> but yea, the backup folder is already 159GB, the whole partition is only 176GB >.>
<foobarry> i was installing for a new user today. they had 4 partitions already used by windows, and windows does something horrid. ubutnu offered to install INSIDE windows until i deleted /dev/sda4 and then it said alongside WONDIWS
<Azelphur> so the question is how on earth can scping /media/blah onto a remote machine, baring in mind the partition only has a use% of 65GB, the result can be a 159GB still rising folder >.<
<diplo> du -sh the dirs ?
<foobarry> dd it instead
<Azelphur> foobarry: I got a dd image, just prefer a copy of the files for easy access.
<foobarry> tar
<foobarry> or mount the dd img
<foobarry> i don't trust windows tools
<foobarry> or filesystems
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> diplo: source du's at 65GB, destination is 160GB now xD
<directhex> blocksync.py!
<Azelphur> I guess I'll have to go without a file backup and just rely on the image, which is a pain.
<foobarry> tar should be ok
<Azelphur> foobarry: why would tar be ok and scp not be ok?
<foobarry> tar is a tape archive, its a different concept. i've no idea why cp, except maybe fs block size (small files)?
<foobarry> windows doesn't have eternal folders if a symlink is bad does it?
<Azelphur> there are a lot of small files
<foobarry> same filesystem?
<foobarry> maybe the small files take a larger blocksize each time?
<Azelphur> foobarry: nah, ext4 and ntfs
<foobarry> tar preserves permissions better. winzip might too
<bigcalm> Anybody here use Acrobits Softphone on Android? I've lost the ability to access a settings menu
<diddledan> you can now rickroll chromecasts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7nqP8AvXUg
<Azelphur> diddledan: I don't get that, why would the chromecast connect to some arbitrary ssid?
<diddledan> Azelphur: because the rickmote tells it to
<Azelphur> ah I've just read the article, I see how it works
<Azelphur> when the chromecast disconnects, it goes into config mode xD
<diddledan> yeah it's not very secure
<diddledan> basically anyone can reconfigure your chromecast once it's disconnected
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> for bonus points, I accidentally just deleted the drive image for that laptop, now to take the drive image again! \o/
<foobarry> c:numpty
<Myrtti> I love these shoes â¥
<Azelphur> I need new shoes xD
<Myrtti> I'd otherwise recommend these but the Kickstarter is over
<Myrtti> I'd buy SO a pair if they were available
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> what are they?
<dutchie> oh ffs shoes
<dutchie> another thing i have to do
<dutchie> oh well
<Myrtti> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/3over7/the-wool-runners-no-socks-no-smell
<Myrtti> BAA
<foobarry> my shoes stink
<foobarry> my feet don't. strangely
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jynidjgus7t6xze/IMG_20140729_164009.jpg
<daftykins> another super easy SSD upgrade \o/
<Azelphur> Myrtti: fun :)
<Myrtti> very comfortable too
<Myrtti> I'm wondering if I should combine my two kickstarter projects together
<Myrtti> I've got a pack of black Hickies shoelaces waiting
<Azelphur> mine have developed holes in the back and cut holes into the back of my heel xD
<awilkins> Azelphur, I'd not use scp for large-scale copies anyway
<awilkins> Azelphur, (apologies if this is rehashing things)
<Azelphur> heh :)
<awilkins> Azelphur, One possible reason is that Windows does use links for its huge set of backwards compatibility libs
<awilkins> Azelphur, The other thing is that scp is rubbish at lots of dinky files
<diddledan> :-o http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/282855.htm
<Azelphur> yea, I think I might just take a separate dd image of /dev/sda1 as well as the image of /dev/sda, then I can mount the image to get at the files.
<awilkins> Azelphur, If I have to do that I use tar - even uncompressed it's much faster than scp
<awilkins> Azelphur, Mounting an image would work too
<Azelphur> diddledan: buy me one :D
<awilkins> Azelphur, I tend to do    ssh remoteserver 'tar c <files>' > ./localfile.tar
<awilkins> Or whatever combination
<awilkins> doing     tar c <folder>  | ssh remoteserver 'tar x'  is great for a quick folder copy
<Azelphur> I see
<diddledan> I'm thinking I might plumb the bank account for one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Transcend-JetDrive-720-SATA-Upgrade/dp/B00JKCHMMS/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1406652644&sr=8-6&keywords=macbook+pro+ssd+upgrade
<daftykins> diddledan: :O
<daftykins> so taking a fast SSD and connecting it over USB - sad times :(
<diddledan> replacing the inbuilt ssd and putting that in a usb caddy
<daftykins> oh ok
<diddledan> it's a kit to upgrade your ssd which happens to also include a usb thingy so you can carry-on using the old one
<daftykins> or even clone the old as i just did :O
<daftykins> bootup was terrible until i zapped the PRAM :>
<daftykins> now it's 23 seconds boot from off, for an old 5,1 \o/
<switchtehbeat> where's the best place to buy PC parts in the UK?
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> dammit
<diddledan> I went and clicked buy
<directhex> switchtehbeat: "it depends"
<diddledan> I have a very accident prone purchasing habbit
<directhex> switchtehbeat: i tend to spread my pc across multiple vendors these days
<diddledan> I just did it with amazon
<diddledan> I like dabs
<diddledan> if I'm in southampton I might pop into novatech
<Azelphur> switchtehbeat: I really like scan.co.uk, prices are good, and they have an insurance offering which is pretty cool too.
<diddledan> Azelphur: their "for today only" deals are sometimes pretty decent, too
<Azelphur> for example if you do a full high end PC build (say Â£1000) for like Â£20 on top they'll insure it for 30 days against accidental damage, so you don't have to worry about accidentally dropping or damaging components
<directhex> i use scan for the free shipping........ but scan is terrible for warranty service
<Azelphur> diddledan: indeed
<directhex> they depreciate the value of your faulty item using some magic secret algorithm, so "my 300GBP graphics card died after 2 years" turns into an offer of about 100 quid, since they don't have replacements to provide
<Azelphur> directhex: sounds fairly shit, most companies have an equal to or greater than policy
<directhex> Azelphur: we got i think GBP130 for a dear 6970
<directhex> dead
<Azelphur> directhex: I'd ask for a replacement card and wouldn't take no for an answer myself
<Azelphur> warranty is warranty, not guarantee
<directhex> easier to just give my money to other people
<switchtehbeat> scan.co.uk do they do "today" only amd pcs?
<Azelphur> switchtehbeat: huh?
<switchtehbeat> ugh nvm
<switchtehbeat> i guess today only is in the title lol
<mapps> GOT A CAB TO BERMONDSEY
<Azelphur> MattJ: XMPP \o/
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<MattJ> How goes, Azelphur? :)
<Azelphur> not bad, just had a HDD spontaneously fail on me
<MattJ> Fridge
<Azelphur> has no data worth recovering on it
<Azelphur> so...trash :P
<MattJ> I was convinced that putting them in the fridge was a myth, until I tried it
<daftykins> electronics recycling!
<MattJ> I currently have a PC that has been running for several months on a bad disk
<daftykins> how bad are we talking? :>
<Azelphur> haha
<MattJ> If you turn it off for a while, it won't power up unless you put the disk in the fridge for a couple of hours
<MattJ> Then it powers up and stays working
<MattJ> as long as you keep the disk spinning
<Azelphur> I might do it just to be 100% sure there isn't anything in there
<daftykins> dd zero fill even if not \o/
<webpigeon> rebbaj \0/
<webpigeon> Or disassemble it and smash the platters...
<mapps> 8.90 a pack
<mapps> :(
<webpigeon> What is?
<daftykins> cancer sticks
<webpigeon> Ah
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> morning
<daftykins> o/
<brobostigon> morning mapps and daftykins
<diddledan> allo
<daftykins> ah a wild dan of diddle
<Myrtti> yaaayyy no water.
<mapps> morning
<mapps> 6 January 2015
<mapps> London Gatwick
<mapps> to Moscow Domodedovo
<mapps> Dep 07:00 - Arr 14:50
<mapps> Flight EZY8401
<mapps> 1 Adult
<mapps> 1 x Â£52.99
<mapps> :P
<mapps> all booked
<mapps> next part get the visa
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> audio seems to be working on this laptop each boot i make it do now :D
<daftykins> lets try it again
<daftykins> ooh there's the tell tale power off
<daftykins> yep and it's gone
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cheesecake Day! :-D
<daftykins> !
<daftykins> now that is a day i am proud to celebrate, more so than milk chocolate day perhaps
<mapps> <mapps> can get eveything from china
<mapps> <myordo> i dont understand
<mapps> silly russians
<mapps> i went to ubuntu-ru;p
<daftykins> and spoke english!? you devil
<mapps> i know
<mapps> im awful
<foobarry> mapps: does it fly over ukraine?
<Myrtti> fair question
<daftykins> are you guys serious
<daftykins> how bad is your geography :P
<foobarry> it doesn't
<foobarry> but it could do
<mapps> foobarry nie
<foobarry> it takes a wide berth north over dnmark
<foobarry> i've flown to russia before
<mapps> wouldt care if it did tbh
<foobarry> ukraine is a distinct possibility
<mapps> if somethings ginna happen it will happen
<mapps> i cant stop it
<foobarry> sure but i don't go playing chicken in the road
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> poor Malaysia Airlines :( i wonder what they're choosing as a new name
<mapps> but 99% of flights are ok
<mapps> yep
<mapps> sad eh
<daftykins> i had a look at their share price yesterday
<mapps> nothing means anything ...all thrown away so quickly
<foobarry> mapps: what will u be doing in russia
<mapps> not sure
<foobarry> oh
<mapps> but its different bermondsey eh:P
<foobarry> yes sort of
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> still high rise blocks
<mapps> hahaha
<foobarry> and morozhenoe
<daftykins> you two are using very confusing words
<mapps> how do you know bermondsey?
<foobarry> went to a party ther once
<mapps> cearly do by your last response
<mapps> aha
<mapps> lovely place eh
<mapps> ;)
<foobarry> was better than the party in mile end that we didn't witness a mugging at knife point
<mapps> hahaha
<mapps> mile end
<mapps> lol
<foobarry> the architect has sent his drawings to the council \o/
<foobarry> time to engage the builders
<mapps> hahahahaha
<daftykins> careful, they're a dangerous sort
<mapps> bloody didnt kniw someone would know bermondsey
<mapps> said too much;p
<foobarry> i never go south of river. it was an accident
<mapps> hahaha
<foobarry> hmm handbrake isn't reading this dvd
<foobarry> which is clean
<mapps> you live in like chelsea?
<mapps> us poor folks
<mapps> not good enough
<mapps> :)
<foobarry> no, just north london blood
<mapps> oh
<mapps> so still too good for us lot
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> foobarry: must be fun protection once again
<foobarry> nah,m its a BBC dvd
<foobarry> there is some strange schorching on the edge
<foobarry> hadn't noticed
<popey> inner edge or outer edge?
<foobarry> outer
<mapps> ive gotta go sleep in a minute
<foobarry> gonna see if it plays in vlc after this disc is done
<foobarry> handbrake want sto scan whole dvd, dunno which chapters need rippage though
<daftykins> BBC are actually pretty good at protection too
<daftykins> find a windows machine and crack out DVD decrypter \o/
<foobarry> its a defect i'm sure
<foobarry> is there even such a thing as protection?
<foobarry> if vlc can read it then so can handbrake
<mapps> damnit
<mapps> i will try harder
<mapps> drinking about 25-30pints a week still
<mapps> and smoking a pack a day
<mapps> ARGH
<daftykins> damn it mapps i said no touching the Dinghy - http://i.imgur.com/8fPvOas.gif
<mapps> :(
<foobarry> when do you drink?
<mapps> everyday?
<foobarry> what time of day?
<daftykins> foobarry: i didn't make it up about there being copy protection...
<mapps> 2/3am+
<foobarry> even one less pint a day is doable
<mapps> course it is
<foobarry> when i was a student i drank 21 pints a week
<mapps> but  i figure im gonna bloody drop dead some day aint i
<foobarry> small lifestyle changes can make big difference
<mapps> cant keep smoking and drinking and be ok :)
<foobarry> so getting under 20pts is achievable aim
<mapps> yea
<mapps> unlikely
<mapps> but course i 'could'
<foobarry> i dunno, its not unrealistic
<mapps> i could also quit smoking;p
<foobarry> the last pint is never as enjoyable as the first anyway
<foobarry> e-cigs?
<mapps> nah
<mapps> i smoke marlboro lights
<mapps> used to smoke rollies
<mapps> got fedup rolling
<daftykins> tried the electronic jobs?
<daftykins> could at least make things a bit healthier
<mapps> nah
<mapps> who cares at this point
<mapps> ive smoked for so long
<mapps> :)
<foobarry> thats not true
<foobarry> the benefits of stopping are realised v quickly,
<foobarry> and within a couple of years you regain a huge benefit
<mapps> yea but i aint gonna stop am i:P
<foobarry> all is not lost
<mapps> so gotta try and justify it
<daftykins> no, but you cut out all the other crap you're putting into your lungs
<mapps> ive been smoking for bloody years mate
<daftykins> haha well nothing is gonna change with this viewpoint ;)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> idd never recomend anyone smokes;p
<foobarry> even stopping at age 60 adds 3 yrs to your life :-|
<mapps> makes me laugh when i see these young kids
<diplo> How old are you mapps ?
<daftykins> to 63 ;)
<mapps> desperate for a cigarette
<mapps> 31 diplo
<foobarry> "Men who quit smoking by 30 add 10 years to their life"
<mapps> ah well thats me done
<mapps> im over 30;p
<diplo> My grandad smoked from 16 till he was 86, didn't have cancer, died from giving up fags :)
<daftykins> i knew he was gnna say that XD
<diplo> They say if you quit now you are more likely to get the worst of it out of your system
<mapps> my mum died from smoking..
<mapps> but
<mapps> she smoked about 30/day
<foobarry> i installed ubuntu on a strangers laptop yesterday \o/
<Myrtti> whee!
<foobarry> they were trying to install and had a problem
<foobarry> unfortuantely the installer isn't very intuitive when windows has used 4 partitions on the disk already
<foobarry> after we got over that it was plain sailing
<mapps> thats why i love living on my own;p can smoke at my desk
<Myrtti> this smoking discussion makes my skin crawl
<foobarry> when i was six i put a cig butt to my mouth that my friend had found at the kerb :S , but that's the closest i ever got
<foobarry> other ppls smoke gives me terible discomfort in summer due to hayefever
<foobarry> even the odd molecule from 50 yds away
<daftykins> just got the new DVD drive from ebay for this laptop i'm messing with
<daftykins> no go, no boot from CD or DVD, no reading discs... looks like no device detected either
<funkyHat> The best time to start smoking is about 6 months before you buy your pension annuity
<davmor2> Morning all
<Myrtti> todays newly learnt English word: BOWSER. The term bowser is used by water companies in the United Kingdom to refer to mobile water tanks deployed to distribute fresh water in emergency situations where the normal system of piped distribution has broken down or is insufficient.
<foobarry> a good word
<foobarry> do you want some other nice words
<foobarry> Acersecomic
<foobarry> which could be Myrtti
<foobarry> judging by her v long hair when i saw her once
<Myrtti> foobarry: I'm not too enthusiastic of having to learn that word, to be honest
<Myrtti> (Bowser, that is)
<foobarry> bowser is a great sounding word
<foobarry> also, mario
<Myrtti> https://twitter.com/myrtti/status/494417157531250689
<Myrtti> I might have been a bit peeved
<foobarry> oh, you had nothing to drink except from the bowser?
<Myrtti> well fortunately the kettle did have a bit of water, as did the Brita jug
<foobarry> you have been performing jettetura towards the water company
<Myrtti> but I couldn't really wash my coffee pot or have a shower.
<foobarry> jettatura*
<Myrtti> Why bother having ALERT pages if you don't actually have useful information on them
<foobarry> tell my IT dept that
<Myrtti> the bit I'm most peeved at is that it HAD information
<Myrtti> then it vanished
<Myrtti> well, not all of it, but the bit I was interested
<foobarry> checkout staff who dump your ready meal in the bag upside down :@@@
<popey> oh balls. laptop I ordered is being delivered by hermes
<MartijnVdS> are they bad/
<diddledan> is he unreliable?
<diddledan> I figure that means the planet-express crew?
<davmor2> diddledan: he visits hades to often for popey's liking
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100111195411/en.futurama/images/b/b4/250px-Hermes_conrad.png
<directhex_> hermes is a subcontracted carrier, i.e. the delivery is done by normal people as a part-time job
<directhex_> so the service you receive is super variable
<popey> yeah
<popey> we ordered something "next day" from Next, came 4 days later via hermes, bloke couldn't give a toss
<foobarry> a part on wifey's spinning wheel got broken via courier yesterday by rought treatment. she was mildly gutted to say the least
<Myrtti> gah Guardian videos take forever to load
<Myrtti> foobarry: :-(
<foobarry> just been watching http://sysadmincasts.com/episodes/31-introduction-to-docker a good whistelstop tour for busy people
<foobarry> Myrtti: it was the brake peg. had been snapped and was hanging loose
<Myrtti> aw :-|
<Myrtti> where'd she get it from?
<foobarry> i had to screw a screw into the remainder of the peg
<foobarry> and pukll the broken bit out. was scary
<popey> screws!
<foobarry> a nice lady from spinwise.co.uk
<popey> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/30/buzzgasm_screws/
<foobarry> she will send a new peg, probably at her own cost, i don't know if she will get anything out of the courier company
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/2c4sut/ive_had_the_joy_of_working_for_hermes/
<popey> nice
<Myrtti> DPD etc. have timed slots. If they turn up to your door 5 minutes before their predicted arrival, they'll have to wait until they can sign the package off
<Myrtti> I once asked them if they'd want a drink while waiting
<diddledan> Myrtti: vodka?
<Myrtti> tea
<diddledan> aah
<Myrtti> it was one of the early summer heatwave days
<Myrtti> well, warm enough anyway
<foobarry> anyone used/ing vagrant?
<foobarry> people seem to use it with virtualbox which gives me a sour taste
<foobarry> talktalk mobile are provided by vodafone..hmm.
<foobarry> currently offering monthly deal for Â£3.75 for 600MB data + voice+ textx
<awilkins> vodafone are tax dodging swine
<awilkins> And also screwed me out of about Â£200 of data charges when I spent 10 minutes explaining to the sales rep that I needed a plan with very few minutes but inclusive data
<awilkins> So I will never ever give them money again or encourage people to do so
<foobarry> which mobile commpanies pay tax?
<awilkins> Dunno
<foobarry> o2 i suppose
<foobarry> the others are foreign owned
<awilkins> But we know that voda hasn't paid Â£6B of tax and, well, should be counted as British because it used to be a part of BT
<foobarry> agree
<awilkins> There should be a dotheypaytheirtaxes.com
<awilkins> I thought a good plugin for the barcode reader on your phone would be something that ran a barcode search and then did a graph query in some kind of knowledge base of the companies that produced the product and gave it an evil / not evil score
<awilkins> You could configure your evilness rating function based on your personal beliefs
<foobarry> do you google?
<dwatkins> I'm being switched to Vodafone for my company phone, sadly.
<Azelphur> Does anyone here have working IPv6?
<Azelphur> I am somewhat confused as to if I'm behind a NAT with IPv6, so wondering if someone who has working IPv6 can check that for me
<popey> Azelphur: brobostigon does I believe
 * Azelphur prods brobostigon
<diddledan> Azelphur: I've got ip6 running
<Azelphur> diddledan: pm'd ya :)
<diddledan> at least I should do
<diddledan> it doesn't appear to be responding atm
<Azelphur> diddledan: good, I guess that means my NAT is working
<diddledan> no I mean my end is broke
<diddledan> lemme have a fiddle
<Azelphur> ah :)
<diddledan> I changed something the other day so I guess that broke it
<shauno_> I've warned you about fiddling, diddledan
<diddledan> ok, Azelphur , I fixed ip6 my end and your ip still doesn't respond so I guess you got your firewall correct
<Azelphur> good :)
<diddledan> Azelphur: it seems to be immediately closed
<diddledan> Azelphur: yeah the connection attempt is refused
<diddledan> some folk prefer black-holing rather than refusing connections because if an attacker doesn't know it's there then they don't try to attack it
<diddledan> in iptables that's -j DROP vs -j REJECT
<diddledan> DROP doesn't reply, REJECT sends a connection refused message
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> diddledan: interestingly it seems like my router DROPS IPv6
<Azelphur> IPv4*
<Azelphur> I wonder why it would drop ipv4 and not ipv6
<shauno_> nat on ipv6?  or just a default inbound policy
<Azelphur> shauno_: I dunno tbh, I know IPv6 does stuff differently  in that regard
<DJones> ok, cure for terminal earache, let your other half get a new car
<daftykins> *shudder*
<daftykins> was the old really that bad? ;)
<DJones> Not to me, she complained it stuggled on the motorway, I thought it was fine
<DJones> But it was 10 years old
<DJones> Now she's got one with all the gadgets necessary, sat nav, cruise control, electric windows, air con etc
<DJones> Must admit I couldn't drive the old car without cruise control, really caused pain on the motorway etc
<daftykins> amazing how the features from the US are slowly crawling over
<daftykins> or maybe it's just that i'm used to such simple cars (i don't own one or have a license still) but over here we have no MOT so cars can be driven 'til they fall apart
<DJones> I have problems driving any distance with pain after surgery a few years back, so cruise control is a necessity for me
<daftykins> ouch!
<DJones> At times I regret the surgery, but couldn't continue with a hernia anyway
<DJones> Ah well, these things happen
<daftykins> pretty sure i saw a guy steal a rear wheel off a bike earlier
<DJones> That can't be a quick job
<daftykins> sure it can! quick release
<DJones> Push bike rather than motorbike?
<daftykins> yep
<DJones> h
<DJones> Ah
<DJones> My wife made me laugh when her insurance on a 10 year old 1.1L car increased by 50% for a 1.5L 3 year old car, she though it'd come down because the car was newer and more reliable
<DJones> I WISH
<daftykins> how much are we talking though?
<DJones> daftykins: Â£240 to around Â£375 ish
<daftykins> ah sound about what i'd expect, as an outsider to driving
<diddledan> lol @ argument over whether "alphabetise desktop icons" is suitable
<diddledan> yey for translation flamewar
<shauno_> that's not even a word - how would it be suitable?
<diddledan> popey linked the OED which says it is a real word
<shauno_> meh, dictionaries are junk these days too.  they've turned into a game of "guess which crazy words we added this year!"
<daftykins> yeah pesky social sellouts that they are :(
<shauno_> I was always told -ize is greek words (and latin?) and -ise is french words
<diddledan> shauno_: I think that's elfs vs elves
<foobarry> ugh. just realised i got a red letter from the water company in may
<foobarry> bang goes my credit rating
<foobarry> i've only just opened the letter. maybe it only just arrived at it was just sitting onthe stairs
<daftykins> foobarry: direct debit time!
<diddledan> daftykins: I prefer direct credit
<diddledan> pay me monies!
#ubuntu-uk 2014-07-31
<foobarry> daftykins: i cancelled direct debit due to some spurious behaviour on their part
<foobarry> false overcharging that i wasn't interested in paying
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<bashrc> tried finalterm again yesterday.  It's still not ready for the desktop, since it doesn't support various key combinations
<bashrc> but looks nice
<bashrc> I like the gliding cursor
<foobarry> gliding?
<bashrc> it slides along smoothly
<foobarry> i used terminology for a while due to the cool inline images
<bashrc> in a balletic fashion
<bashrc> https://github.com/p-e-w/finalterm/issues/121
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Uncommon Instrument Awareness Day!  :-D
<bashrc> uncommon instruments?
<JamesTait> I don't know if it's specifically about musical instruments, or if, say, medical instruments also count.
 * awilkins chooses the "hang" as his uncommon instrument
<foobarry> i choose the babooshka
<foobarry> web question. i have 2 virtualhosts on the same IP. barry:80 and bob:443 . if i type bob.domain it is defaulting to port 80 and serving barry:80 on bob:80
<foobarry> i want bob.domain to default to bob:443, i need a rewrite rule?
<foobarry> or redirect
<shauno_> I think bob:80 should be serving the default content? (it's not matching a virtualhost at all)
<foobarry> ah, so i make a bob:80 virtualhost and then rewrite?
<shauno_> I believe so, yeah
<foobarry> NameVirtualHost *:80
<foobarry> <VirtualHost *:80> ServerName mysite.example.com DocumentRoot /usr/local/apache2/htdocs Redirect permanent /secure https://mysite.example.com/secure
<foobarry> </VirtualHost>
<foobarry> thanks, i'll try that
<foobarry> hand't thought about that
<QuincyK54> Anything I've forgot ? Oh GMorning Pimped DebianUsersUK  Hehe.
<QuincyK54> I have a pvilion G6 with Win7 --.. will the 14.04 "just install" alongside, without sound or HDMI problems ? 'cos It's, not my machine.
<foobarry> hmm. now i've got the opposite
<foobarry> bob but no barry
<QuincyK54> I know Dubarry , but not Bob.
<foobarry> QuincyK54: try before installing
<foobarry> click "try ubuntu"
<foobarry> when booting from usb
<shauno> are you sure barry was actually working?  if bob:80 was serving barry's contents, barry's in the default docroot & would be served if it didn't match anything
<foobarry> barry was working because it redirects to localhost:4567
<shauno> I mean, it might have been serving the right content by accident, rather than intentionally
<Myrtti> Pavilion G7 is certified for 12.04
<QuincyK54> Ok .. I shall .. I just think the G6 laptop had afew Kinks .. but I shall try as I bought several DVD's on the Canonical store !Yeay!
<Myrtti> several?
<foobarry> or download the image?
<QuincyK54> Myrtti, So 14.04 shouldn't be a problem .. do I need toask that ?
<QuincyK54> **to ask
<Myrtti> well you've got G6, not G7, and you're planning 1404, not 1204
<Myrtti> but the best way to find out is trying before installing
<QuincyK54> yes, I've got the official 14.04 dvd  .. I dhall try  .. thank-you operators.
<popey> Ok. How can I send a cell phone to finland?
<popey> post office refuse to take it
<QuincyK54> s/dhall/shall
<foobarry> why?
<popey> parcel2go refused too
<davmor2> popey: ask msm
<popey> ah good call
<QuincyK54> popey, Is this urgent ? There is a guy on #twil (If it's still going) from Finland (Not the Norwegian guy) -- He'll know.
<QuincyK54> Other than that DHL.
<QuincyK54> or speedboat :)
<popey> msm is a magical being
<popey> she's arranging it
<popey> nice one davmor2
<QuincyK54> sound's dedicated, anyway.
<davmor2> popey: she wears that wonder woman T-Shirt for a reason you know
<foobarry> seems i need to use NameVirtualHost properly
<QuincyK54> So, How's the consensus of adopting Pitivi in the shipped default release for 16.04 ??#RandomMumblings Or is it too 2nd class citizen atmo. Sorry if I'm eeking anyway - If your working.
<QuincyK54> gotts go .. I'l check the logs .. #Random But Inquisitive .. Biccy time
<QuincyK54> leaves.
<Myrtti> popey: I'm flying tomorrow
<popey> heh, thanks, sorted it.
<foobarry> right. chrome is working as intended. firefox is redirecting bob:80 -> barry:443
<foobarry> :S
<foobarry> cleared cache, now seems better
<foobarry> nasty
<foobarry> is proxypass insecure?
<popey> Yay! Hermes driver says my parcel is on my doorstep.
<popey> It isn't.
<directhex> popey: it's on the doorstep of a house with a similar number to yours, within a number of streets
<popey> yeah.
<popey> just walked around the neighbours
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe the sticker on your door scared them
<popey> hah
<popey> really annoying because I can't contact the seller because ebay wont let me until I get to the expected delivery date of monday
<Myrtti> LOL
<Myrtti> I got a letter from Yorkshire tea :-D
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: what did they write?
<Myrtti> here's a sticker, post a picture with it :-D
<Myrtti> I'm going to recycle the card as a decoration to my phone
<foobarry> surely you can send a message to any ebuyer?
<foobarry> ^bayer
<popey> yeah, if you choose "other" rather than "my parcel has not been delivered" which I now have
<dwatkins> it baffles me that delivery people leve parcels on doorsteps
<dwatkins> seems to be common practice in the US
<popey> got a reply from ebay vendor
<popey> "The parcel has to be signed for. If they left it at the porch, who then signed for it! I will try to get in touch with them. They are stupid people."
<dwatkins> I contacted an Amazon seller because I hadn't received my phone case, it turned out they'd sent the wrong thing, and I'd assumed a friend who was staying with me had ordered it.
<dwatkins> The seller was able to tell me who signed for it, though.
<directhex> dwatkins: in the case of hermes, they dont employ any delivery people.
<directhex> dwatkins: they pay normal people a per-parcel fee to deliver. so they ship 100 parcels to some dude's house, and he distributes them for pennies each. standards can easily slip in that setup
<dwatkins> directhex: oh my, I see
<dwatkins> there was me thinking "you had one job..."
<directhex> it basically avoids the need for branch warehouses
<foobarry> wow its quiet in the office today
<dwatkins> my office is quiet, since I'm working from home
<Myrtti> random thought of the day: is it just me, but does the little boy in Jurassic Park look a bit like Charlie in the older Wonka chocolate factory?
<daftykins> https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2478/3941274828_2748070c22.jpg
<daftykins> a teensy bit
<daftykins> http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/046/000195_10.jpg
<popey> without looking at those pictures, from memory, yes ã
<daftykins> i knew not the JP kid :>
<SuperMatt> relevant: http://imgur.com/gallery/vPkakSd
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> damn it, they could all fit through!
<Myrtti> yeah, that's the pic that started me thinking
<diddledan> daftykins: certainly the kids could have crawled through
<Myrtti> http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-slug/d881e82aca21cc8eaee7558834c77288.jpg
<Myrtti> well atleast Timmy would've
<diddledan> the fence does look mean though
<diddledan> what with those ceramic isolators on the mast
<diddledan> and then the wholly metal ones in-between which negate the effect
<daftykins> nah that girl can totally get through too, if not the adults as well - look at the panel the boys knees are in
<shauno> lol, Lex - of "I know this, this is unix!" fame  (I figure if Timmy deserves a name ..)
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> the little faker!
<shauno> every single time my laptop starts complaining about the battery with >1hr left, it makes me smile
<diddledan> shauno: that 3d file explorer was totally available to download from the internet for some esoteric unix at one point
<shauno> of course, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsn
<diddledan> lol @ the last sentence in that wiki
<directhex> Have you pre-ordered pigeon dating sim Hatoful Boyfriend yet? http://store.steampowered.com/app/310080
<diddledan> "After the release of the film, some perceived the visualisation as an example of media misrepresentation of computers,[2] citing the computer game-like display as being an unrealistic Hollywood mockup."
<daftykins> how about Hackers, flying through the skyscraper-like filesystem? :P
<directhex> i love that movie <3
<daftykins> same :D
<diddledan> daftykins: that was faked, however
<diddledan> daftykins: apparently the director decided that computer generated graphics wouldn't be realistic enough to portray a computer generated graphics
<shauno> nowai!?
<daftykins> O_O
<directhex> yo dawg
<daftykins> just be careful of your trash, guys
<daftykins> don't store your important stuffs in there
<directhex> my garbage file!
<daftykins> oh :>
<daftykins> i still feel sad about how cool they made nerds look
<directhex> about 80% of /r/talesfromtechsupport is "my super important files/mails were in the recycle bin, how dare you?"
<daftykins> that happens to me all the time from clients
<daftykins> drives me spare
<diplo> heh I'm reading that right now
<diplo> Very new to actually reading reddit :)
<diplo> Been signed up for years
<daftykins> seems i'm the only one that doesn't touch it still
<diplo> TIFU is quite good as well
<diplo> Last week or two for me daftykins :)
<daftykins> time to setup another HDD RMA with WD
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Have there been any RAT meeting up discussions? Would be nice to know where peeps will be
<popey> no
<bigcalm> popey: found your ticket? :)
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Oh dear :(
<popey> hermes reply to my tweet 4 hours later..
<daubers> Evening
<popey> yo
<dwatkins> oi
<dwatkins> I regularly get replies many hours later, popey - I've gotten used to people working instead of dropping everything to reply...
<daftykins> ;)
<dwatkins> at first I was wondering what I'd done, but then I realised I'm expecting a reply from someone who doesn't sit at a computer all day.
<dwatkins> is there some special trick to rescuing a yahoo email account? looks like my SO's has been hacked :(
<daftykins> :/ standard recovery approach not working?
<dwatkins> the e-mail address for recovery isn't her alternate address, daftykins
<dwatkins> looks like the hax0r got in, and set up another one; she hdn't set up questions nor a mobile number unfortunately (although I'll check that for certain on Saturday)
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> best be on it sharpish
<dwatkins> worst part is, it's an AOL address
<daftykins> D:
<dwatkins> I'd have been there the day she told me if it hadn't seemed a little too forward ;)
<diddledan> dwatkins: you mean you didn't ensure your SO had secure password practices ingrained?
<dwatkins> sadly I suspect the damage is done, but perhaps there's a way we can plead with Yahoo! to give the account back to her by proving it's hers somehow
<dwatkins> diddledan: we havn't been ging out very long, diddledan ;)
<diddledan> aah
<dwatkins> I havn't even seen her laptop yet...
<dwatkins> (I'm not actually kidding, she's well aware it's old and slow)
<diddledan> dwatkins: pervert! :-p
<dwatkins> lol
<daftykins> sometimes it's best not to get to that stage ;)
<dwatkins> well, we'll see - perhaps I'll be able to work some magic from the fact she's still logged in from somewhere
<dwatkins> daftykins: I'll slowly persuade her to get a machine with a proper kernel
<dwatkins> ...and seure everything properly - this will probably be a good starting point in a sense
<daftykins> oh dear.
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0mq2tl2g9phdppz/route.JPG
<daftykins> well here's my Saturday planned out, to setup a NAS
<dwatkins> by bicycle?
<diddledan> cornwall got funky-shaped :-D
<daftykins> yes sir! two wheels are the only form i have
<daftykins> diddledan: ;)
<dwatkins> well, it's cheap - I cycle to work 4 times a week :)
<dwatkins> it's ony 5 miles, but gets me a little fitter
<dwatkins> I'm working up to a 100 mile trip sometime later this year.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sounds good, i'm really unfit these days as i live in town now and don't need to ride so often
<dwatkins> I also swim and run a little, too.
<diddledan> last I looked it was shaped like: https://www.dropbox.com/s/czwej6yocb3e35w/Screenshot%202014-07-31%2019.10.14.png
<dwatkins> Discovered a colleague had begun running at lunchtimes, so I'm joining him.
<daftykins> :D
<dwatkins> diddledan: daftykins lives in the future where global warming has reshaped Cornwall and separated it from the mainland.
<diddledan> I guess it's been eating too many pasties?
<diddledan> dwatkins: nah the mainland connects on the top-right of his image
<dwatkins> hehe
<diddledan> same as mine
<diddledan> only his cornwall is fatter. and the claw-shape at the bottom has bent around a bit
<dwatkins> mine is upside down and called Scotland
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyhXIxkXUhg
<diddledan> that's a crap video
<dwatkins> this planet really has everything, there's even a band which sings about Doctor Who and the TARDIS.
<dwatkins> Chameleon Circuit
<diddledan> the chameleon circuit is broken tho
<diddledan> hence why it's a police box
<dwatkins> it hasn't worked since 1963...
<dwatkins> ...but the Doctor won't give up on me
<diddledan> netflix is completely broken for me :-(
<dwatkins> the Ubuntu app or the site itself, diddledan?
<diddledan> everything I click on is either "not available to play instantly" or "unavailable in your region"
<diddledan> the site
<dwatkins> works ok for me, but I'm effectively in Ireland.
 * dwatkins fishes out a tablet
<diddledan> aah found one thing that plays
<diddledan> nikita
<dwatkins> haha gutted
<dwatkins> wow, this iPad is a complete mess, I could easily spend my 2 hour train journey tidying it up
<diddledan> all the apps not in folders?
<dwatkins> exactly
<dwatkins> it doesn't tend to get used a lot
<dwatkins> heh "travelling with Netflix?"
<dwatkins> yeah, I just logged in from home instead of via VPN
<diddledan> lol
<dwatkins> that works too, though, blame your ISP, diddledan
<diddledan> I think it's because I have a hurricane electric ip6 tunnel
<dwatkins> that might do it, yeah
<diddledan> I can't wait until ip6 is provided by my isp
<diddledan> but it's sky so the chances of that are slim for the forseeable
<DJones> 4But what benefit would an ipv6 ip address give you over an ipv4? At the end of the day your home connection either way has an ip address you can connect to
<DJones> As far as I know, it doesn't speed up connections
<diddledan> IP6 is "the future"
<DJones> INternal devices still have ip addresses provided by the router
<diddledan> there is no concept of "internal" and "external" in IP6
<diddledan> all devices are routed
<dwatkins> are ports still blocked, though?
<DJones> diddledan: But how does every device having its own ipv6 address change things, they're still connected via the same router, using the same landline
<diddledan> i.e. my fridge can be accessed directly from the internet if there's no firewall preventing it
<popey> http://hackaday.io/project/2076
<dwatkins> popey: wasn't that a Kickstarter project?
<dwatkins> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/952953995/bluetooth-zx-spectrum-recreating-the-sinclair-zx-s
<dwatkins> ok, slightly different
<diddledan> with IPv4 there is no capability to route without rewriting the IP packets - with IPv6 you don't rewrite anything so it's "compatible" with protocols that don't play well with nat such as ftp
<DJones> diddledan: Erm, so all it does is cut out the router, except that the fridge wouldn't have an internet connection unless it was connected to the router?
<dwatkins> I guess FTP can easily be updated to support IPv6 but not routing
<dwatkins> clients and servers
<diddledan> dwatkins: you misunderstand - ftp doesn't play well in NAT (IPv4) but ipv6 allows it to work seamlessly
<DJones> To my mind, ipv6 doesn't make any difference unless every individual device has its own mobile sim
<dwatkins> popey: also, this... http://denki.world3.net/beebkb.html
<popey> that kickstarter went all downhill
<dwatkins> diddledan: ah ok, not sure I understand what can or can't be changed, but ok :)
<dwatkins> popey: oh dear
<diddledan> dwatkins: specifically with ftp in the ip4 world both ends of the ftp connection need to be able to open a port for an inbound connection from the other side - we've previously "worked around" the problem by deep-packet inspection but that only works in unencrypted communications channels
<dwatkins> it's going to be a long evening... https://www.dropbox.com/s/ffnokp5vjp7zdfp/Screenshot%202014-07-31%2019.59.38.png - Windows 7 has quite a lot to do
<diddledan> ouch
<dwatkins> diddledan: aha, I didn't realise taking packets apart was required, thanks
<DJones> dwatkins: Sounds like 24 hours of updates then :)
<DJones> As in you updated yesterday and thats the last 24 hours of bug fixes
<dwatkins> DJones: we're on number 14 already
<dwatkins> haha
<diddledan> so ipv6 allows ftp to work because there's no concept of "private" ip addresses meaning that each device has an end-to-end connection with any other device without any messing around with rewriting packets
<dwatkins> so NAT is a hack?
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> NAT was a short-term solution
<dwatkins> I guess they didn't anticipate just how many devices we'd need to put online
<diddledan> actually it was a case that the internet took off before we were ready - vint cerf in a recent interview pointed out that ipv6 is what should have been used in the outset and ipv4 was just a proof-of-concept
<diddledan> the "beta" version if you will
<dwatkins> this sounds familiar ;)
<daftykins> heh
<MartijnVdS> yay ipv6 :)
<MartijnVdS> also.. yay fast internet
<MartijnVdS> Hotel internet on Jersey was like being back on dialup.
<MartijnVdS> (or maybe it just felt like that because I have 100/100 here)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I want your babies ^H^H^H^H internet
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: I'm getting 500/500 as soon as they upgrade the other side :)
<diddledan> ffs
<diddledan> that's just taking the micky
<MartijnVdS> That's just FttH, instead of ttC :)
<diddledan> aah
<daftykins> mmm custard creams
<MartijnVdS> I have a gigabit media converter in my utility cupboard. It's "just" an ethernet line.
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: could be ;) i was shocked to discover that our providings over here have far surpassed Jersey's
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it was fun there though! Did you see my photos (on g+)
<daftykins> they have daytime FUPs O_O
<daftykins> nah i don't use g+
<daftykins> but you should come to the real island ;) Jersey is just little England
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/6041438963175542817
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Little England where you can't drive over 40 anywhere 8-)
<daftykins> 35 here \o/
<MartijnVdS> :D
<daftykins> ooh that castle off France
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: The "The North", "The West" etc. signs were hilarious... having only seen them on the M25 before
<daftykins> Mont Saint Michel/Michael - looks neat
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah, with the same name as the castle off Cornwall (St Michael's Mount) :P
<daftykins> how unoriginal
<dwatkins> no wonder I was always confused about where it was
<daftykins> didn't realise there was a whole bridge to it
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: there wasn't one. They're just finishing it.
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> copycats!
<daftykins> how great are custard creams :)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: so good trip all in all? you should've reminded me and hopped over here for a pint or two!
<diddledan> daftykins: not as great as pizza
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I didn't have proper internet, or I would have :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that local ale was quite good :)
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> *mumbles something about Jersey*
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: they had a "Herm Island Gold" as well
<daftykins> ooh, i did not know Herm brewed their own
<MartijnVdS> well it's done by the same brewery (Liberation)
<MartijnVdS> and they do: http://www.liberationgroup.com/our-beers/bailiwick-best
<daftykins> yeah Best is good :)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/il6u3zoca3u6hfg/IMG_20140720_151915.jpg
<daftykins> here's me having a pint of it down one of my islands lovely bays
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> I see I need to go back some time, and do a proper CI tour :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fz006ibpbygcj3y/AACw5Fqaal0DQqRW66-yis8-a
<MartijnVdS> But I'm not driving again. 8 hours straight from/to St Malo
<daftykins> there's some more of that same day if you care to see
<daftykins> do a cycling tour \o/
<MartijnVdS> also, next time I'll bring shoes that don't make my feet blister
<daftykins> :D i've come to think that hiking shoes are ace for all travel now
<DJones> Brilliant http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/130157-people-given-a-20-casio-watch-and-told-it-s-an-apple-iwatch-cue-hilarious-reactions
<daftykins> oh dear.
<DJones> Its worth watching till the end for the "I just like it because its got an apple sticker on the back"
<daftykins> noooooooooooooooooooo
<diddledan> are americans really as thick as the tv makes them appear?
<dwatkins> not all of them
<MartijnVdS> 80/20 rule
<daftykins> 'Kofi Annan, is that some kind of new coffee' <-- i remember that one from a video
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-01
<mapps> hiall - anyone checked the free linux course daftykins said abot before
<daftykins> should be starting today, that :>
<mapps> :>
<mapps> is it launched ow or like later on US time
<daftykins> US time i think, so probably fire up tonight
<daftykins> i haven't even chosen a target system to do it with yet
<mapps> ah
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> yea i should really use a diff machine
<daftykins> VM makes sense
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i was thinking old laptop
<mapps> not started yet
<mapps> seen sharknado?
<Myrtti> I wish I hadn't even heard of it
<mapps> loll
<mapps> so that means yes and it sucks?
<mapps> people been saying its good;p
<DJones> mapps: I saw the scify channel retweeting people saying it was good last night, wonder how many tweets they got saying it was rubbish & didn't retweet them
<popey> hehe, still getting nagged on steam to sell my earbuds
<popey> â¬30 is the offer now
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy World Wide Web Day! :-D
<Myrtti> Happy Mailman day
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dutchie> o/
<brobostigon> morning dutchie
<dutchie> how's things
<brobostigon> <---- hangover central,
<davmor2> JamesTait: finally you come out with something worth celebrating
<knightwise> yoyo
<diddledan> ahoy
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTiR5AgywOE
<Laney> anyone know how to push a DNS server over openvpn?
<Laney> push "dhcp-option DNS a.b.c.d" is what the internets says but that doesn't update resolv.conf for me
<knightwise> playing around on a windows pro tablet here . ssh into machine in canada using ssh client in chrome
<knightwise> slider bonus points :)
<knightwise> amazed at how well this works
 * popey wonders if Laney is behind some kind of firewall ã
<Laney> I'm at GUADEC in Strasbourg :-)
<diplo> Laney, I can't say how to do it per se, but I remember when we had our Cisco boxes for customers we have to use a forwarder to pass all the info across ( you've probably already that )
<diplo> Getting DHCP ok, just not the DNS?
<Myrtti> Laney: :| envious
<Laney> yeah I blame dnsmasq currently
<diplo> Tried restarting dnsmasq ?
<diplo> Clears out the cache
<Laney> nope
<Laney> currently trying to go through NM, seems the path of least resistance if it works
<diplo> We had that issue with DNS where dnsmasq just wasn't refereshing, a restart kills the cache
<Laney> that solution seems irritating if you're reconnecting a lot
<diplo> Yep, have it in a cron on our boxes till I can find a proper solution
<Laney> yep NM works
 * Laney declars this problem Worked Aroundâ¢
<diplo> :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: AlanBell popey what is the plan before RAT ?
<popey> no clue
<czajkowski> we're going sky diving that morning
<czajkowski> busy day
<czajkowski> we/jon :)
 * Azelphur is playing with ownCloud, it's awesome.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Shall we all meet at the William Cobbert(sp?) tomorrow afternoon about 4.30/5pm?
<bigcalm> popey: czajkowski: AlanBell: ^^
<bigcalm> Dave2: you too
<Dave2> The William Cobbett??
<Dave2> or is that before going to the mulberry?
<Dave2> I have a pretty packed day tomorrow, we're getting to Farnham at about 5:30
<Dave2> (I have 12 events in my calendar to keep track of all of the various journeys I'm doing)
<Dave2> (Reading->Paddington->Liverpool Street or Fenchurch Street->Southend->West Ham->Waterloo->Woking->Farnham is what I'll've done before burger time)
<popey> i dont think we're going to the mulberry
<popey> as it has an event on
<Dave2> ah, OK
<popey> alan posted to the list suggesting meeting at the waverly arms
<popey> next to the station
<Dave2> THE LIST
<Dave2> Find Cash Advance, Debt Consolidation and more at Thewaverleyarms.co.uk. Get the best of Insurance or Free Credit Report, browse our section on Cell ...
<Dave2> Still, my friend and I will be wherever at 17:30, unless we miss our train
<Dave2> (I'm assuming that's plenty of time to get food before catching the train to catch the train)
<bigcalm> I tweeted a link to the thread yesterday, one moment
<bigcalm> The train we want to get from Farnham is at 18:2x
<Dave2> that's a rather early train
<bigcalm> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-July/037788.html
<bigcalm> Trains from Farnham to Alton at 18:26 or 18:56. (the earlier one is
<bigcalm> preferable so we can then grab seating near to the beer carriage)
<bigcalm> To quote Alan Lord
<Dave2> We'll be getting in at 16:25, that leaves almost an hour to get food, I'm sure it'll be fine
<Dave2> over an hour, in fact
<Dave2> we would get there earlier if it wasn't for the fact that we're already getting up at stupid o'clock to get a reasonable amount of time in Southend
<Double-ewe> Afternoons all . Anything happening on Kickstarter recently ?
<bigcalm> Alan Lord has responded to his email and said we'll meet at The Waverley Arms
<diddledan> Double-ewe: anything you were hoping for in particular?
<Double-ewe> Nah, just the next super-cool thingy , I might get my Dad for christmas.
<Double-ewe> Awww.
<diddledan> oic
<diddledan> donno then :-)
<Double-ewe> Wats with all the linebreaks ?
<diddledan> ??
<Double-ewe> Anyway .. How r you doing ? I'm running out of reddit-gold rapidly.
<bigcalm> Dave2: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-August/037791.html
<Dave2> so they do have a web site
 * bigcalm eyes the menu
<diddledan> Double-ewe: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onetesla/tinytesla-the-little-singing-tesla-coil-anyone-can?ref=discovery
<diddledan> that'll suit, no? :-p
<Double-ewe> Is it just me -- Or is it quite muggy and slow today ?
<diddledan> no, it's not muggy, it's friday
<diddledan> muggy is the other end of the working-week
<Double-ewe> :) Hehe  ..Looks like plasma active is going go Prime-time in 2016 http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/2cbgpi/oled_lighting_panels_to_be_competitive_with_leds/
<Double-ewe> Hope the tv team doesn't get too sidelined for the touch-screen engineers. [I'm thinking there are Engineers, right.]
<diddledan> "pulling an arc with your finger will result in a nasty burn and is not recommended!"
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<diddledan> based on that statement, would it be a good idea to embed the tesla unit into my chest like iron-man?
<shauno> heh, french chap at work just got back from a week in newcastle.  He wants to know what language that is :)
<diddledan> why aye
<diddledan> do they have dual-language signs in newcastle for the english numpties to be able to know where the heck they're going?
<shauno> I think they just label the required routes "M1 South"
<DJones> Can dialup modems connect through cat 5 cabling? There's just been a move round in the offices here and one computer that needs a dialup modem is now about 50 feet from the nearest standard phone socket. I wondered whether an adapter for a phone connector could be used to connect to the existing cat 5 cabling and then one at the other end to connect from the switch to another double ended phone cable
<DJones> The other option is a 50" phone extension cable & drilling through a couple of walls
<shauno> as I understand it, it should work fine
<diddledan> DJones: you don't want an ethernet switch in there
<shauno> you don't want to run ethernet over the same cable at all, that doesn't work anymore (it used to, but not with gig-e onwards)
<DJones> diddledan: WOuld that scramble the signal? I was only thinking about using modem to wall socket number 16, then a cable from socket 16 on the switch to a cable & adapter to plug into the phone socket
<diddledan> DJones: the switch won't know what to do with the "noise"
<DJones> diddledan: Thanks, thats what I thought could be an issue
<shauno> more than likely you'll just pop the switch.  phonelines carry some surprising voltages
<DJones> ok, cheers, extension lead it is then
<shauno> the wires being used for the phone pair don't want to reach the switch at all.  you can re-use the cable, but not piggy-back the connection
<Double-ewe> I'm getting back onto the network (Manxtelecom) this week with 4G .. I want to use my friends a/c .. but they say that I have to be a guarantor to pay for it. How can I pay and use my friends sim ? Also I need to change the number in 2 weeks.
<diddledan> yeah, you really don't want to connect into any ethernet equipment
<Double-ewe> The laws are good here .. but is there any mate-use-of-sim -card advantage ?
<diddledan> Double-ewe: no, get your own sim
 * Double-ewe steps away from the computer to avoid the nay-sayers from over the sea .. yeah, thought so.
<Double-ewe> What about Stallmans idea of using a 'shared computer' Doesn't that apply here ?
<diddledan> that would depend on what stallman says about "using a 'shared computer'"
<shauno> if stallman wrote Manxtelecom's ToS, you may be in luck
 * Double-ewe listens to his Lunduke-overLord .. http://bit.ly/1ogDTxJ
<shauno> (trivia, since you dropped the reference .. rms recommends not owning a phone; https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html )
<Double-ewe> Nay-sayers from both sides .. Oh great to be Manx !
<Double-ewe> but, seriusly, we will be the last one's standing ;)
<MartijnVdS> on three feet...
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: they're that tall?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: just look at their flag
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I don't know what flag "manx" uses?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: isle o'man
<diddledan> aah
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Man
<diddledan> gotcha, the three-legged idiot
<popey> "Delivery estimate: Friday, 1 August 2014 - Wednesday, 20 August 2014"
<diddledan> why can't they just call it "isle of man" rather than using "manx"?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: It's the adjective
<shauno> it's not an idiot, it's just someone falling off a motorcycle
<MartijnVdS> shauno: .. and who rides motorcycles?
<diddledan> shauno: and trying to run?
<davmor2> shauno: IDIOTS right MooDoo
<shauno> organ donors aren't idiots - they're a useful contribution to the health system :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: like the bicycle guy? :)
<diddledan> I tried running when I fell off my bicycle. it doesn't work.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctsDl7g6a1w
<diddledan> ouch
<shauno> oh dear.  it seems I have to go to gosport.  that's ... unfortunate
<diddledan> shauno: I thought you were a fugitive never to set foot in blighty for fear of arrest?
<bigcalm> Really not feeling it this afternoon, knowing I have a long drive tomorrow
 * bigcalm day dreams about snoozing at his desk
<daftykins> where are we going? :)
<daftykins> this pic from another channel is amazing O_O - http://i.imgur.com/zDq5z5z.jpg
<bigcalm> !rat | daftykins
<lubotu3> daftykins: rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<daftykins> ah, that
<shauno> daftykins: that's pretty awesome. I can assume the moat is due to zombie outbreak?
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> well there appears to be kanji on shopfronts sir, so i can only assume it's Gawdzirra
<popey> oof
<daftykins> well well, the Linux course from edX starts now
<bigcalm> Linux Voice mag came today with a cover DVD saying Mint is the most popular distro. Wonder what their source is
<popey> directhex_: you touched f-spot building ever? bug 1351360
<lubotu3> bug 1351360 in f-spot (Ubuntu) "f-spot crashes (segfault) when any Export method is chosen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1351360
<popey> seems to build an exporter called FSpot.Exporters.Zip.dll but the program is looking for FSpot.Exporters.Zip.dll.so
<mapps> 'Debian Family Systems (such as Ubuntu)
<mapps> SUSE Family Systems (such as OpenSUSE)
<mapps> Fedora Family Systems (such as CentOS)'
<mapps> anyone else gonna take the linux course?
<mapps> i feel i should use openSuse , already use Ubuntu quite a bit
<daftykins> time to login and see what we have
<mapps> thats what it said on the site theyre using daftykins
<daftykins> yeah i mean i haven't looked yet is all
<mapps> oh
<mapps> i just recall thinking openSuse was a pain
<daftykins> still $250 for the certificate :S
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i chose just audit
<mapps> 250 seemed a bit pricey to me?
<daftykins> sure seems that way
<daftykins> heh this neighbour has been banging on her own front door for the last 30 mins odd trying to rouse her parents who are staying apparently 0o
<mapps> O_o
<daftykins> seems she got in eventually
<daftykins> ok reading the intro now
<daftykins> mapps: just going through the intro, already interrupted by the cat at the window though XD possibly she's asking to be let back in
<mapps> lol
<mapps> use the fancy cat flap?
<daftykins> she still doesn't use it :/
<mapps> oh
<mapps> damn
<mapps> did she use the old one?
<daftykins> yeah, but out only
<daftykins> now she doesn't go either way without assistance
<daftykins> i think i need to just be cruel or something
<mapps> :<
<mapps> make her a house cat?
<daftykins> nah i don't like that idea
<daftykins> a moggy must be free :D
<mapps> but
<mapps> they roam around
<mapps> and its dangerous with busy roads
<daftykins> i'm in the town centre, she has no way to reach those
<mapps> ah nice
<daftykins> but yeah i need some way to tempt her in, perhaps tuna would work
<daftykins> i need to know what cats like ;D
<daftykins> i can hear her sometimes scratching at the back door or flap possibly, but when i get there she's moved off so i can't tell if she's attempting to push it open
<mapps> hm
<mapps> wonder why
<daftykins> ugh
<daftykins> just now she stares at me through the flap but won't attempt to come near it
<daftykins> in fairness before she couldn't get in, so now maybe she just doesn't think to try
<daftykins> first day i had it, she put her head in and it read her tag so made the loudish *click* to unlock, she kinda got scared off at that time
<daftykins> but i've been letting her in and out through it to get her used to the sound
<directhex_> popey: that's a red herring. mono will look for a .so and .config to match every .dll - the former includes AOT-compiled machine-specific assembly, the latter contains C lib mappings e.g. from "gdiplus.dll" to "libgdiplus.so"
<shauno> eh, it's a cat.  most likely it just doesn't see the point in openning a door when it employs a perfectly good human for such tasks.
<daftykins> shauno: indeed ;) i think i need to stop assisting
<popey> ah
<daftykins> in fact she never went through the flap until i just stopped and eventually she wanted to get inside bad enough that she just had to do it
<mapps> only thing with pets is dont you get hairs everywhere daftykins
<daftykins> yeah, but i have long hair so half is mine ;)
<daftykins> it is a bit of a pain, i just keep a sheet over the top of my bad that all her fur gets on, since she sleeps beside me
<daftykins> *bed
<daftykins> something's up with my brain <-> hand connection of late
<jsmwell919> I need help bady. So i am running ubuntu 13.04 and at some point in time i lost my root password. There is only access to guest account and i have no way of changing it. I have tried going to the boot menu and done just about everything there is to be done to change a password. nothing has worked. someone please help
<daftykins> does that include the recovery boot options?
<jsmwell919> Yes i have went into recovery and it just tells me i do not have permission to change anything
<daftykins> did you select the recovery entry beside your newest kernel, then select to give a root shell?
<jsmwell919> Yes.
<daftykins> and what did you run from there?
<daftykins> also when you say root password that's a little concerning, because root doesn't have a password.
<daftykins> are you saying you manually overrode it to create one?
<jsmwell919> well super user password..
<jsmwell919> but from there i have done passwd username
<jsmwell919> that didnt work
<daftykins> are you typing from this system now?
<jsmwell919> then i unmounted and used sudo which alos didnt work
<jsmwell919> yes i am
<daftykins> so you can't even log in with your username's account right now?
<jsmwell919> nope i cant. only guest
<daftykins> nasty, can you get it back to that root shell prompt? then come back here from another device?
<jsmwell919> Yes i can
<jsmwell919> im going to set up my laptop and make sure i have you first
<daftykins> as an aside however, your distro is unsupported now. and 13.10 is as well - so really even if you fix this you need to switch to either 12.04 LTS or 14.04 LTS
<daftykins> i'd give serious thought to backing up and reinstalling instead
<jsmwell919> wait
<jsmwell919> will it allow me to reinstall without the passwd?
 * daftykins waits
<daftykins> you'd install from bootable media which would bypass the whole install entirely
<jsmwell919> Can you explain how to do that? im not concerned with saving anything on here at al;.
<daftykins> are you sure?
<mapps> hm
<jsmwell919> yes
<daftykins> what kind of system is it?
<daftykins> desktop?
<mapps> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713043/Pensioner-79-fined-hiding-plates-tuna-laced-anti-freeze-five-cats-neighbourhood-died.html thats not nice daftykins
<mapps> :(
<jsmwell919> IntelÂ® Pentium(R) CPU G630 @ 2.70GHz Ã 2  DEll One
<daftykins> mapps: >_<
<daftykins> jsmwell919: ok can you write to DVDs or do you have a USB flash drive you can wipe for the purposes of installing ubuntu fresh?
<jsmwell919> lol its trash i know
<jsmwell919> i have the iso file on my usb
<daftykins> of which version?
<jsmwell919> but the problem it is .exe so it wont read
<daftykins> you're probably just seeing wubi.exe - we won't be touching that. that's evil.
<daftykins> jsmwell919: do you know how much RAM this computer has?
<jadskjasdfkf> <daftykins> you there?
<daftykins> yep
<jadskjasdfkf> okay cool
<jadskjasdfkf> so how do i wipe the system?
<daftykins> jadskjasdfkf: do you know how much RAM this computer has?
<jadskjasdfkf> I can look now
<daftykins> good stuff
<daftykins> mapps: onto chapter1 ;)
<jadskjasdfkf> 4gb memory is all i could find
<jadskjasdfkf> id assume its really standard
<daftykins> how did you check?
<jadskjasdfkf> system settings
<daftykins> hitting F2 at power on when the Dell logo shows should let you see in the BIOS
<jadskjasdfkf> kk
<daftykins> jadskjasdfkf: ok so what version is on your flash drive right now?
<jadskjasdfkf> 14.04
<daftykins> just FYI, i'd have suggested to install from http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04.1/ubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
<jadskjasdfkf> I tried having it boot from the usb before and it just opened my current version
<daftykins> it's got some updates on now, so it wouldn't hurt to re-download that and put that on the flash drive instead
<jadskjasdfkf> ok ill download
<daftykins> hopefully you have a good speed to grab that in short order :)
<jadskjasdfkf> ok now what
<daftykins> what is the host OS of your laptop for creating the USB flash drive? are you ok with doing that or do you need guidance?
<jadskjasdfkf> need guidance please
<daftykins> so, OS?
<jadskjasdfkf> windows 78
<jadskjasdfkf> 7
<daftykins> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/
<daftykins> ok grab that program there, run it after you plug your flash drive in and follow the steps to put the downloaded ISO, once it's done obviously, onto the drive
<daftykins> i'd suggest ticking to format it, if you're sure there's no personal data on it that you need
<jadskjasdfkf> okay then what
<daftykins> any luck on checking the RAM with entering the BIOS?
<jadskjasdfkf> one sec
<jadskjasdfkf> 2 Gb
<daftykins> hmm, well it'll be fine running 64-bit.
<jadskjasdfkf> great
<daftykins> so once you've made up the flash drive with Universal USB Installer, power off the target machine... plug the USB drive in... power on and press F12 repeatedly at the Dell logo to get a one-time boot menu
<daftykins> you should see a menu with a list of devices including your USB flash drive - and so then you can select it and boot up the live session
<daftykins> how does this system connect to the internet? wired or wireless?
<jadskjasdfkf> wired
<daftykins> excellent, that makes life easier
<jadskjasdfkf> Why is that?
<daftykins> when you first see the boot menu, let me know if you see two entries for each device
<daftykins> setting up wireless can be a pain in the posterior if the device isn't supported out of the box
<jadskjasdfkf> okay  going to restart
<daftykins> you'll need the flash drive finished and plugged in, for the above
<jadskjasdfkf> yup i have it in
<daftykins> oh, that copied quickly
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok im rebotting my pc now
<jadskjasdfkf> 35 mbps
<jadskjasdfkf> lol
<daftykins> but the ISO -> USB
<nfjfjfbxjd> obly took like 5 mibues
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok im on the f12 screen
<daftykins> what do you see?
<nfjfjfbxjd> hard disc
<nfjfjfbxjd> cd/dvd
<nfjfjfbxjd> usb storage device
<nfjfjfbxjd> diagnostics
<nfjfjfbxjd> and bios setup
<daftykins> cool - and only one entry for each? nothing saying EFI/UEFI ?
<nfjfjfbxjd> nope
<daftykins> go ahead and select the USB storage device then, and you should see a screen with a little logo at the bottom centre... press a key again to see a menu
<daftykins> it'll come up with a big language select menu to start with
<nfjfjfbxjd> it just booted up my original versuon :/
<daftykins> that's odd. power off and try again
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok
<nfjfjfbxjd> did it again ..
<daftykins> as in it failed again?
<nfjfjfbxjd> yes
<daftykins> just to be sure, if this is a desktop - i would be using USB ports right on the motherboard, so at the back beside all the other main connections
<daftykins> it might be worth hitting F2 to enter the BIOS and looking at your boot options too
<daftykins> just to make sure that it's allowed to boot USB devices
<daftykins> it wouldn't hurt to test that flash drive on your laptop too, see if boots there to confirm it's working
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok going i ti f2 now
<daftykins> +it
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok im ib f2
<daftykins> should be a Boot page along the top?
<nfjfjfbxjd> yes
<nfjfjfbxjd> on it
<daftykins> any way you can share a picture at all? if you have a phone/camera
<nfjfjfbxjd> its just asking about boot priority
<nfjfjfbxjd> i have hard disk as prio 1
<nfjfjfbxjd> !
<nfjfjfbxjd> and usb as prio 2
<daftykins> yeah, that doesn't matter because the F12 menu is used as a one-time bypass
<nfjfjfbxjd> hmm
<daftykins> there's no marking beside USB to disable it, is there?
<daftykins> or is there an option to select which hard disk is the primary?
<daftykins> your flash drive might emulate a hard disk
<nfjfjfbxjd> no sir
<nfjfjfbxjd> shoukd i try booting jarf disc?
<nfjfjfbxjd> hard disc
<nfjfjfbxjd> from f12, that is
<daftykins> well that's what it does as standard
<daftykins> you'd need to find a page where it might allow selecting a different hard disk for the primary boot device
<daftykins> a picture of that screen would be very handy
<nfjfjfbxjd> ill try and sebd one
<daftykins> there are free upload sites like imgur.com
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok doibg it now
<nfjfjfbxjd> a picture of the boot page on f2 or f12
<daftykins> F2
<nfjfjfbxjd> http://imgur.com/opuM8wD
<daftykins> does pressing enter on it do anything?
<nfjfjfbxjd> http://imgur.com/5DlYSVy
<nfjfjfbxjd> that was after i pressed ented
<nfjfjfbxjd> coukd i disable all but usb?
<daftykins> yeah, you could try setting USB first but i don't think it'll make a difference
<nfjfjfbxjd> i dont either but ilk try it
<daftykins> after setting it, you'd need to save and exit either by going to the page at the end, or hitting F10
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok
<nfjfjfbxjd> srill booted 13.04 up
<daftykins> right, is the USB in the motherboard ports?
<nfjfjfbxjd> I havd a question
<nfjfjfbxjd> this may help
<nfjfjfbxjd> ill send a picture
<daftykins> ok
<nfjfjfbxjd> sorry about all this
<daftykins> not at all, this is all part of the fun :)
<nfjfjfbxjd> yiu ate really helpibg me out
<nfjfjfbxjd> im typing in my ohone so sorry about this spelling
<daftykins> ah i thought you had the target computer and a laptop beside
<nfjfjfbxjd> i do but dont have this on my laptop for some reason lol
<daftykins> IRC?
<nfjfjfbxjd> http://imgur.com/IKW1HMB
<daftykins> ah you'd been running it wrong
<daftykins> nfjfjfbxjd: just type "passwd <username"
<daftykins> then it'll prompt for the new password to be entered
<nfjfjfbxjd> wait so how do i tyoe it
<nfjfjfbxjd> exactly
<daftykins> "passwd brenden"
<daftykins> oh
<daftykins> you might not know that you need to remount the file system read-write first
<daftykins> !recovery
<lubotu3> If your system fails to boot normally, it may be useful to boot it into recovery mode. For instructions, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecoveryMode
<daftykins> "mount -o remount,rw /"
<nfjfjfbxjd> i did that mount and it opened up something like my last inage showed
<daftykins> nfjfjfbxjd: you must make sure you're typing it perfectly
<nfjfjfbxjd> http://imgur.com/P770NQt
<nfjfjfbxjd> this came up
<daftykins> you're definitely including that last forward slash?
<nfjfjfbxjd> ill show yiu what i type in
<daftykins> yeah you can go back up with shift+ page-up
<daftykins> or press cursor up to repeat commands
<nfjfjfbxjd> wait i did it again
<nfjfjfbxjd> and nothibg showed uo
<nfjfjfbxjd> nothing showed up
<daftykins> perfect
<daftykins> it worked then
<daftykins> ok now go back to the "passwd brenden"
<daftykins> when you run it, it should say something like "Enter new UNIX password:"
<nfjfjfbxjd> breden cassie ot just brenden
<daftykins> just your username
<daftykins> if you intended for 'cassie' to be your password, it's not gonna work like that
<daftykins> nfjfjfbxjd: note as well that when you type your password to create one, you won't see asterisks or anything to suggest you're typing something - this is for security reasons
<nfjfjfbxjd> i did
<nfjfjfbxjd> passwd root
<nfjfjfbxjd> and changwd that
<nfjfjfbxjd> it didnt work for my username
<daftykins> ugh you really don't want to create a password for root XD
<nfjfjfbxjd> noooo
<nfjfjfbxjd> dam it
<daftykins> what're those cables on the left hand side? is there other USB crap plugged in?
<nfjfjfbxjd> a mouse and key board
<nfjfjfbxjd> omg
<nfjfjfbxjd> it worked
<daftykins> what did?
<nfjfjfbxjd> reset my user password
<nfjfjfbxjd> you are awesome
<daftykins> ah so you were able to login as your username?
<nfjfjfbxjd> yess
<daftykins> ok, but you're still on an outdated ubuntu right now even still
<daftykins> it'd be good to get that USB flash drive booting correctly
<nfjfjfbxjd> okay
<nfjfjfbxjd> lets see
<daftykins> mapps: chapter 1 section 1 right! ;)
<nfjfjfbxjd> haha o man
<nfjfjfbxjd> ok so
<nfjfjfbxjd> lets get this update working
<daftykins> it might be worth going back to Universal USB Installer and recreating that drive, make sure it's the correct drive letter for the flash drive and make sure it formats it
<daftykins> it also wouldn't hurt if you took a page of every BIOS screen (F2 setup) and upload them in a single album just to have a glance
<directhex_> aptio is definitely uefi
<daftykins> ah-har
<nfjfjfbxjd> well
<nfjfjfbxjd> it showing the boot screen now... lol
<nfjfjfbxjd> install?
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> hit try
<directhex_> aptio without a fancy gui is pretty old though
<directhex_> hope it's not a gigabyte
<daftykins> OEM in a Dell all in one?
<directhex_> oh, yeah, that fits
<daftykins> nfjfjfbxjd: was it a black screen with white text or a purple menu?
<daftykins> nfjfjfbxjd: so make sure everything works from the live session
<directhex_> daftykins: ooh, spotting the difference between grub and isolinux. good call
<daftykins> ;) ty sir - just things i've picked up from assisting in #ubuntu though really
<daftykins> so more just the info from the...
<daftykins> !uefi
<lubotu3> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<daftykins> ^link
<nfjfjfbxjd> kk
<nfjfjfbxjd> trying
<nfjfjfbxjd> its only 1gb iso
<nfjfjfbxjd> thts wrong isnt it?
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> that's how big it is
<diddledan> noooo, the remote host killed hexie!
<nfjfjfbxjd> hnm
<nfjfjfbxjd> theb what do i do
<diddledan> [19:20:18] 	directhex_ (~smuxi@host86-182-92-111.range86-182.btcentralplus.com) left IRC. (Remote host closed the connection)
<nfjfjfbxjd> its not booting
<diddledan> evil remote host!
<nfjfjfbxjd> should i change where the usb is?
<daftykins> nfjfjfbxjd: what's the current state of the flash drive? does it have 14.04.1 on it right now?
<daftykins> i thought you said a moment ago that it booted fine
<nfjfjfbxjd> i thought it did
<nfjfjfbxjd> but no
<daftykins> why, what happened?
<nfjfjfbxjd> it just stopped and booted 13.04 again
<daftykins> i see
<nfjfjfbxjd> i downloaded the file on ubuntu
<nfjfjfbxjd> maybe thats rhw issue
<nfjfjfbxjd> im going to diwbload it on windows and folliw your steps again
<diddledan> a-gentoo-ing I will go
<diddledan> a-gentoo-ing I will go
<diddledan> ee aye the adio
<diddledan> a-gentoo-ing I will go
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> you fiend.
<daftykins> haven't you weeded them all out yet? ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I wouldn't mind them if I had the leeway to bring them all up-to-date en-masse
<diddledan> instead I'm bringing them up-to-date via a piecemeal method
<daftykins> long and tedious eh
<skinns> I am suddenly not able to write any files as root user on my server. Has anyone heard of this?
<skinns> just today I tried to save a file and it wont let me
<skinns> so odd
<daftykins> can you pastebin the output of "mount" ?
<skinns> sure
<daftykins> paste.ubuntu.com \o/
<skinns> http://pastebin.com/weFXAAtx
<skinns> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7927207/
<daftykins> well that error doesn't sound happy
<daftykins> so although everything shows as rw, as it says they could be lies
<skinns> so odd that it just decided to break on me
<daftykins> i take it it persists across reboots?
<skinns> yes
<daftykins> and permissions look normal?
<skinns> as far as I know
<skinns> I dont know much about linux
<skinns> is there something I can check to see the permissions
<daftykins> "ls -al /"
<daftykins> although if you're trying to write as root, that should never be a problem
<daftykins> then again - you shouldn't really run as root
<skinns> hmmm well I really hope this doesnt mean I need to rebuild the server
<diddledan> it might be that your filesystem needs fscking
<skinns> does that require a reboot?
<diddledan> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10513460_10152315466402054_5969299639222510482_n.jpg
<diddledan> potentially, yes
<daftykins> LOL
<skinns> haha
<daftykins> yeah wouldn't hurt to boot a desktop liveCD and fsck then skinns
<daftykins> i gotta go get some food on, bbl
<skinns> prob is that this is a live web server
<skinns> and i dont have access  to it
<skinns> just ssh
<daftykins> ooh-err.
<diddledan> this is why we do everything in virtual land where I work with the host-systems barely ever touched http://paste.ubuntu.com/7927286/
<diddledan> the host-systems 50/50 chance of a reboot actually working
<diddledan> hence the large uptime
<diddledan> have a**
<skinns> is it a bad thing to try and change ownership of everything to root?
<diddledan> yes
<skinns> haha ok
<maps|wrk> hello aall
<maps|wrk> daftykins:  did you do any of the edx course? ive read upto and including chapter3
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-02
<daftykins> maps|wrk: yeah i stopped at the start of 3
<maps|wrk> gonna do anymore?
<daftykins> not tonight nope
<daftykins> busy weekend ahead!
<maps|wrk> heh
<maps|wrk> teaching your cat to use the cat flap?:P
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> setup someones NAS tomorrow, 30 min cycle away
<daftykins> haven't been there since i lived at my parents so i'm a bit iffy about the route too
<maps|wrk> :)
<daftykins> aaaand on Sunday i'm going to help friends moving an art gallery in just *one day* D:
<maps|wrk> cool
<maps|wrk> :)
<maps|wrk> what did you go with daftykins
<maps|wrk> distro i mean
<daftykins> still not set anything up
<daftykins> once the course moves onto practical, then it'll be time
<maps|wrk> ya
<maps|wrk> have a look at
<maps|wrk> https://frogs.zapto.org/~mark/edx_linux/Chapter4Labs.pdf
<maps|wrk> first labs kinda easy:P
<maps|wrk> hehe
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> morning
 * penguin42 yaaawwwnnns at popey
<jussi> good evening all :)
<marshmn> hi, are three known issues with Skype on Ubuntu since yesterday? I'm on an old, unsupported, version of Ubuntu (13.04) which may not help - but just wondered if there is any known issue?
<marshmn> this looks relevant: http://askubuntu.com/questions/505581/skype-cant-connect
<popey> you may want to consider updating â»
<marshmn> popey: yes, I'd like to update the OS - but there are some reasons I have to be on this version right now
<marshmn> I've upgraded Skype and all is working again now
<marshmn> I hate Skype.
<marshmn> I need to try again to convince the office to use HipChat instead
<OERIAS> I'm sorry to bug everyone, but is there a way to get unbanned from #ubuntu?
<ikonia> OERIAS: join #ubuntu-ops
<OERIAS> I was using a PC infect with some script and it was causing a mess and know I can't event suport.
<ikonia> that's not what happened, but "ok" join #ubuntu-ops and talk to the operator team
<arc__> hello
<arc__> i am having trouble with my 9800pro card in ubuntu 14.04
<daftykins> today's trip by bike took me to the island's main reservoir
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kvheyaiouw9igff/AACEP0YEbAfrkNIvE05eQeMja
<daftykins> anyone ever encountered business-card like printers? my friends run an art gallery and could do with something to print the little cards beneath pictures
<penguin42> some of the label printers can do something that wide I think, not sure about actual business cards though
<penguin42> I've also printed bottle labels before from a roll of self adhesive labels on a sprocket roll
<daftykins> hmm, i'm used to the little Dymo label printer jobs but of course they're on those yeah and not card
<penguin42> I'd be tempted to find a straight path printer that could print A4 card and then take a scalpel or guillotine to it
<daftykins> i think they may well have been doing something similar so far
<daftykins> but probably want to simplify
<penguin42> I wonder if you can get card that's perforated to make it easy
<penguin42> or maybe the photo printers?
<daftykins> http://global.dymo.com/enGB/Categories/Business_Card_Readers.html
<daftykins> i've just complained to Dymo for having an automated non-stoppable video on that page :P
<penguin42> yeh annoying
<penguin42> also, that's a reader not a printer
<daftykins> yeah, just browsing :>
<daftykins> i was curious how they could sell a device to read paper
<penguin42> because they're selling it to execs who have too many business cards and nothing else to spend their expenses on
<daftykins> 'tis what my boss' secretary is for :D
<daftykins> "add that guy to my contacts will you?"
<penguin42> presumably most discussions go 'wth do you want that for? Oh ok, if you scan my set as well'
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> just reported an issue with the edX website :)
<mapps> daftykins what about just using some service always see ads fr some compan doing cards
<mapps> cant remember name tho of course now
<daftykins> well they're an art gallery so creating them would be an ad-hoc activity
<daftykins>  /etc pronounced 'etsy' huh? i always thought of it as etcetera :>
<mapps> aha
<mapps> hahahahah yea ive heard it as etsy
<mapps> id say eeee teee sea
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> that too :D
<mapps> etsy sounds odd (to me)
<mapps> like when i heard dub dub dub for www
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> *shudder*
<mapps> yea its odd
<daftykins> i avoid saying them :>
<mapps> il still say eeeeee teaaaaaa seaaaa
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> not been relevant for correctly configured domains for ages
<daftykins> it annoys me when i find a site that doesn't work without
<daftykins> http://condorferries.co.uk/ ;)
<marshmn> daftykins: if they are on a budget, perhaps they could print on over-sized labels that are then wrapped around a piece of card?
<marshmn> I'm sure that there are machines that do what they want - but they might be somewhat expensive
<daftykins> yeah i didn't have much luck finding, i'd have just said get a dymo label printer then stick the labels on card
<daftykins> thanks :)
<mapps> ya its pretty lame daftykins
 * penguin42 would print on card and guillotine it
<marshmn> I suppose it all depends what they are willing to pay and what level of quality they want
<marshmn> might even make sense to outsource it to a local printer
<mapps> like uh its lame seeing somepage.php?abc=a&&axya=aaa
<mapps> so web 1.0
<mapps> :D
<mapps> http://better/to/see/nice/urls
<mapps> :)
<marshmn> did web 1.0 have PHP? :p
<marshmn> maybe web 1.1 :p
<mapps> teehee
<mapps> so what is it now?
<penguin42> daftykins: http://www.simoney.co.uk/a4-perforated-sheets-acetate-name-badges.html
<daftykins> mm-hmm, that could work with an inkjet
<daftykins> penguin42: ty sir :)
<penguin42> daftykins: There seem to be other places selling heavier/lighter weight - that one looks to be about twice the weight of normal laser printer
<penguin42> daftykins: ah, much easier? http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/425036.xml
<daftykins> good ol' CPC :>
<daftykins> so if their inkjet would deal with the layout, that could work
<penguin42> daftykins: Nod, I love how their discount catalogues have things like really specialised components on the same page as singing snowmen and office supplies
<mapps> lol
<penguin42> I mean http://cpc.farnell.com/images/en_CC/RHPR_July14.pdf
<daftykins> penguin42: :D must be to reduce depression in employees browsing them ;)
<penguin42> even the front page; where else would you find a combi drill, a Galaxy Tab, plug extension, car camera and bottle of screen wash on one page?
<penguin42> actually that's a good catalog because they're trying to get rid of all the football junk
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> 80p for a 2m HDMI!
<penguin42> USB microscope, DECT phone, HD+ cam corder, England Stetson hat, and HDMI adapter
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh if you want leads CPC is the place
<penguin42> daftykins: Free delivery as well
<penguin42> daftykins: But the prices are ex-vat
<daftykins> yeah i have an account, i have to phone order to get tax off :>
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> ugh party with terrible singing going on behind my place :P
<penguin42> go and offer better singing?
<daftykins> i can't show them up ;)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/k7x8bauvqhcis3e/coursemounting.JPG
<daftykins> this seems like a bit of a repeat no? mounting root (/) yet again
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> daftykins: initramfs mounts the / somewhere underneath the current / and then 'pivots' it so that the place it mounted becomes the real root
<daftykins> oh i see
<penguin42> daftykins: see man 2 pivot_root
<daftykins> ty sir
<daftykins> what does 'man 2' do over 'man' ?
<penguin42> that reads the entry in section 2 (system calls)
<penguin42> daftykins: Actually man 8 pivot_root includes an example
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> hopefully updating ios will fix my vpn issues
<daftykins> Apple.. fix things!?
<mapps> this married show is quite funny
<maps|wrk> heylo
<penguin42> hey
<maps|wrk> dissapointing
<maps|wrk> ios update didnt fix vpn prob
#ubuntu-uk 2014-08-03
<mapps> hey all
<MartijnVdS> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/03/how-minecraft-bewitched-40million-users-john-naughton
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> morning
 * popey wonders how bigcalm is â»
<popey> czajkowski: thanks for the lift!
 * SuperEngineer wonders why an inode is called an inode instead of a menode... "i" should be reservered for irobot ;)
<brobostigon> morning popey
<czajkowski> popey: np
<czajkowski> bigcalm: are you even alive ;)
<popey> he texted me earlier, he was on his way home
<SuperEngineer> from the pevious 2 lines of chat - /me guesses bigcalm has a nahgover ...
<SuperEngineer> ... & THAT WE SHOULDN'T SHOUT righrt now ;)
<SuperEngineer> *hangover
<popey> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/495924402794819584
<SuperEngineer> :D
<arc__> is there a way to distibute ubuntu over the network (PXE)
<x86bit> is there a way to distibute ubuntu over the network (PXE)
<SuperEngineer> wierd - just spent 20 seconds chasing my [autohide] launcher... reagained control but can't recreate ... must be a new/full/half/waxing/waning moon or something like that
<SuperEngineer> ...bug #? - "autohide launcher plays silly sods if it's a new/full/half/waxing/waning moon"
<penguin42> #ifdef user_taunting
<SuperEngineer> :D
<SuperEngineer> 1st weekend off in 3 3 weeks - just found great joy in deleting missed calls & voicemail messages without without aankowledging their existance!
<SuperEngineer> All from today! "I'm not on call" is what I ought to say...
<SuperEngineer> ...but it's not what I'm going to say the idiots tomorrow ;)
<SuperEngineer> *to the
<penguin42> you worked 3 weeks straight with no breaks?
<SuperEngineer> ..& why are there so so many reated words in that>!  grrr!
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: yup
<SuperEngineer> and caught up on work emails and work sundry admin today
<popey> gosh
<popey> what do you do for work SuperEngineer ?
<SuperEngineer> ...you want my job?... feel free
<popey> other than "nothing at the moment"
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: That's insane
<SuperEngineer> popey: yes- I do "nothing at the moment" [today] & proud of it
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: agreed
<SuperEngineer> [but insanity is all the mind!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> popey: I appear to do ... the job of the totally stooopid!
<SuperEngineer> ...or so my firm think
<penguin42> based on the number of job ads I'm getting sent lately it feels like the market is hot at the moment
<SuperEngineer> swap offer - my life for any of yours
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No thanks, but I'm sure there are some others out there
<SuperEngineer> :D
<SuperEngineer> popey: all this time I've been trying to work out a polite way of saying I repair hardware & software that was never built for maintenance or repair..
<SuperEngineer> ..."designed by accountants, built out of butter" is how I describe it!
<SuperEngineer> [but my firm is a leading multi-national in it's field - so I didn't say that ;)
<SuperEngineer> ...but please feel free to think of me next time you use any machine that takes or gives money
<penguin42>  Grrr now we know whose fault....
<SuperEngineer> ...so do I
<SuperEngineer> ...and it ain't mine!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Those Morrisons ones I mentioned the other day - they have the bizarre dostonction of not taking, but dispensing, #2 coins
<penguin42> dis
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: we supplied that hardware! but *not* the software [yuk] & used to have the contract for them got underbid on last renewal
<SuperEngineer> [& personally... glad to be rid of them]
<SuperEngineer> next major move [& the machines already out there] is descibed as "the future of banking"... God help us all!
<SuperEngineer> ...or gods/prophets [depending on your preference
 * SuperEngineer ponders... the reason why he stopped all commercial programming... he started when he was helping people & stopped when he started putting people out of work...
<SuperEngineer> ...hmmm - about this hardware malarchy...
<penguin42> I don't know, if the machines can replace the useless bank staff I have to deal with a lot of the time....
<SuperEngineer> penguin42:  ssshhh... don't let the accountants hear you say that!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: and all the banks seem to be equally useless
 * SuperEngineer couldn't possibly comment that  ;)
<SuperEngineer> *on that
<SuperEngineer> except - all banks are born equal... but some grow up to bigger crooks than others - the others get jealous & try to catch up :D
 * SuperEngineer ponders the hollow round building down the road... bet they are watching this!
<penguin42> yes, don't want to mess with the didcot x ray source guys....
<SuperEngineer> wee hee - another Linux Outlaws just released! http://sixgun.org/episodes/lo355
 * SuperEngineer hits gpodder in the variables for not catching it yet
 * StevenR wonders why his 12.04.4 boxes still won't update to 14.04.1
<penguin42> StevenR: What happens?
<mapps> :<
<StevenR> "No new release found"
<StevenR> penguin42: ^
<penguin42> hmm
<popey> is it up to date?
<popey> what does this command return:-
<popey> grep ^Prompt /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
<StevenR> sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade returns nothing to do
<StevenR> popey: Prompt=lts
<popey> hmmm
<Myrtti> StevenR: is it OEM install
<StevenR> Myrtti: nope, I installed it. (This behaviour is the same across that PC, my laptop and 3 VMs)
<arsen> anyone had any experience with failed resume-from-suspend (screen is not powered on) since 14.04 upgrade?
<popey> aawd
<popey> bah
<elad> i have an installed system and i'm happy with it, how i can convert it to installetion disk?
<elad> any idea?
<daftykins> how many times do you plan on doing it XD
<elad> to doing what?
<elad> daftykins: ^
<daftykins> installing the same setup
<elad> a-lot!
<elad> more than 100 computers.
<arsen> sooo hot in here :<
<elad> ?
<Azelphur> gah, copy and paste being so dysfunctional in Linux is driving me insane xD
<Azelphur> whoever came up with the whole idea of using a pointer needs to be shot
<daftykins> what's it doing?
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm writing an application that copies a URL to your clipboard and then closes...so of course, the clipboard gets nuked as soon as the application closes as there's nothing to point to
<daftykins> elad: maybe you should be looking into puppet and all that, or PXE booting over the network and doing an auto install
<daftykins> elad: or... just clone the drives and change the hostname?
<elad> no network :(
<daftykins> so make one
<Azelphur> daftykins: that and it's buggy as all hell in multi X screen setups, because it can't pointer to a window that's not on the same X screen any more \o/
<daftykins> Azelphur: :/
<Azelphur> yup, extremely frustrating. xD
<elad> i mean the installation will happen in several locations.. so i cant work with PXE..
<daftykins> elad: drive cloning it is then
<elad> i want to make a distro
<daftykins> making life harder for yourself eh? no idea then
<Azelphur> shame ali1234 isn't around, I think he knows about this clipboard stuff
<Azelphur> it's weird, my friend who has Ubuntu, the code works fine and the clipboard persists, however me on Xubuntu, it doesn't. I have a feeling Ubuntu has some clipboard manager installed by default
<daftykins> wow, not like him to be offline!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-27
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<davmor2> Morning head song list updated \o/
<brobostigon> morning bashrc and davmor2
<davmor2> brobostigon: Morning dude, how's life?
<sebsebsebb> hi
<davmor2> morning sebsebsebb
<sebsebsebb> hi
<sebsebsebb> davmor2: yeah morning
<sebsebsebb> aww there's a mobile phone in a few bits in the  bin bag, not mine.  but I guess should maybe be taken out and recyled or something at least?
<sebsebsebb> davmor2: maybe I should get him an Ubuntu Phone, or will he start whiing about that to if so, heh heh.  yeah I got a much younger little brother as well...
<sebsebsebb> he wasn't happy with a cheap Android phone my Dad got him
<brobostigon> davmor2: not bad really, going well i suppose.
<sebsebsebb> morning brobostigon
<zmoylan-pi> get them a nokia feature phone, 1) cheap 2) near indestructible :-)
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: do Nokia's still sell?
<sebsebsebb> I thought it all went Microsoft really and Windows  as a result, and then Nokia apprnaty were going to sell there brand again
<zmoylan-pi> shops still have them, even new argos catalog has feature phones, i think there's a dumb nokia in there
<zmoylan-pi> i see a lot of smart phone users carrying ancient nokia for voice calls
<zmoylan-pi> and battery life after smart phone dies
<sebsebsebb> maybe should give him a budget ( my Mum will pay ),  and say he can spend  about that on a new phone, that he can pick himself,  a new Android phone or maybe Ubuntu even heh if he realy wanted to go that way, but I dobut that
<sebsebsebb> and the one he picks may be cheaper or a bit more
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: heh he was asking about what old phones may be lying around the house yesterday as a tempory
<sebsebsebb> may be a old Nokia or two around some where
<sebsebsebb> that can be used still
<zmoylan-pi> for â¬100 i got an asha 302.  a qwerty nokia with wifi feature phone, i use it for ereader, mp3s, radio, web, email, irc, ssh, rss, games and am starting to play with c64, zx, nintendo emulators
<sebsebsebb> ,but probably not actsaully,  or not with a newer sim
<sebsebsebb> yeah for about Â£100 should be able to get a reaonaslbe one really,  and for about Â£200 something a bit more rid range realy
<zmoylan-pi> the only program missing is a text editor
<sebsebsebb> ,but he is old enough now to be able to pick his own phone really, or kind of
<sebsebsebb> a little guidance maybe, but otherwise I think so
<zmoylan-pi> i helped my brother get his son an iphone a few years back.  he had his heart set on it no matter how much we advised against it.  he managed to flog it within 6 months for a high spec android... we were so proud :-)
<sebsebsebb> yeah mine knows I woudn't want him to have an Iphone, so he knows his options are Android really
<sebsebsebb> unless maybe he wanted to try soething differnet that lacks apps such as Ubuntu, but apparnatly apps aren't that important in his case actsaully
<sebsebsebb> just that he can amke calls easy and do texts and that
 * zmoylan-pi recommends a 2nd hand blackberry, they're tanks and have great keyboard even if not 'cool'
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: he doesn't want to ask my Dad to buy him a new phone, since the last one was only about a year or so ago
<sebsebsebb> plus I think he knows now that my Dad may get him some cheap unknown brand phone, like the last one
<zmoylan-pi> huwaei android phones offer very good spec for low price
<sebsebsebb> yes Hawaei seems ok, my Mum's got one
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: yeah it's some month thing, so woudn't be bought on a contract a new one
<sebsebsebb> have you got a link for a good enough Huwaei one for example then?
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: also what about that phone in the bin bag, is it really just going to land fill now?
<sebsebsebb> it's in a few bits in there to
<zmoylan-pi> every time i pass the hawaei's in tescos i pause... http://www.tescomobile.ie/phones/displayPhone.aspx?p=270
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: yeah I know can buy phones from Tesco, but that puts on Tesco mobile I think?
<sebsebsebb> he's got a sim that should work in any un locked phone
<zmoylan-pi> that's on tesco mobile, in ireland that's o2 who were just taken over by 3
<sebsebsebb> oh your from Ireland
<zmoylan-pi> a tenner at local phone accessories hut will unlock most phones excluding sony
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: so you think  Hauawaii is a good way to go?
<sebsebsebb> I think probably really most Android phones should be good enough for him really
<sebsebsebb> hence also why I wast hinking, maybe  he should look around himself etc
<sebsebsebb> and try and pick something himself then
<zmoylan-pi> i've bought huwaei for 1-2 people and good spec, decent hardware.  feels like you're buying hardware instead of a brand.  with kids that can be an issue
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: what that the hardware itself is good enough or?
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: yes he was saying the hardware was having issues with that phone that yeah.  that the screen wasn't working right and such
<zmoylan-pi> that there is no advertising for huwaei so the hardware is the only advertising you get.  ie. good
<sebsebsebb> what do you mean no advertising for Huwaei ?
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: if he picks a phone himself, it will be more personal though I guess,  and that could be good
<zmoylan-pi> i've never seen an advert for huwaei while i often see ads for samsung, htc, apple
<sebsebsebb> I saw the one in the bin bag, and it's like it's just some disposable consuemr device that gets old and bin it, like a old pair of trainers or something,  but a phone isn't really meant to be like that in my opinion
<sebsebsebb> indeed that's a good point,  Hauwaii is around, but where's the adverts for it,  Hawaui is still known enough
<popey> morning
<sebsebsebb> popey: morning
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: maybe he should just pick his own this time, well after guideing him in some sort of direction
<sebsebsebb> may even learn a few things about phones if doing it that way to
<sebsebsebb> which would be good
<zmoylan-pi> i'd find out how the last one broke first of course
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: oh I know how it broke..
<sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi: he whined about the screen etc for quite a while,  than the screen itself apparnatly broke,  but something was on it, never got to see properly,  and then he decided to actsaully take the phone aprt himself see what was inside etc
<sebsebsebb> he might have thrown in a river a few weeks back actsaully, if the sim card wasn't so nicely locked away in it
<bujji> hello
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Walk on Stilts Day! ð
<sebsebsebb> bujji: hi
<zmoylan-pi> tune in tomorrow for happy lying comfortable on a stretcher day :-p
<bujji> hi o/ ))
<bujji> sebsebsebb: how are you doing?
<sebsebsebb> ok you
<bujji> sebsebsebb: good
<knightwise> Catching up on some paperwork for the company here
<bujji> knightwise: o_O
<knightwise> Has to be doen
<knightwise> done
<bujji> knightwise: what work?
<knightwise> I"m a freelance IT consultant
<davmor2> JamesTait: Are you mad or do you just live in a house with massive doors and really high ceilings? Also not a song about stilts but a group of stilts family https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuTVKO0RScI
<davmor2> did you see what I did there ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, very good. âº  I like the song as well.
<JamesTait> davmor2, I think you already know the answer to your question. ð
<knightwise> if somebody just shot me a private message , my irssi just lost it .. :( so resend
<bujji> davmor2: watch thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEg_YZQsTI
<bujji> knightwise: sorry
<bujji> davmor2: how is it? didn't see))
<davmor2> in a meeting I'll look at it after
<popey> hey, english speakers!
<popey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/205900728/screenshot20150501_233502290.png
<popey> i want to change that text.. does this read better:-
<popey> "This note has been modified in multiple places. Open each version to check content, then swipe to delete one of them."
<nigelb> popey: "Please choose which one you want to keep"
<nigelb> I think less text would help
<nigelb> The more text, the less likely someone will read it fully.
<nigelb> <-- not a native English speaker
<MooDoo> "This note has been modified in multiple places, please swipe to delete the one no longer required" ?
<popey> the problem is it's not obvious you need to swipe
<popey> hence telling them that
<popey> and its also not obvious that you can tap to open them to read them
<popey> hence telling them that too ð
<popey> because from the preview you may not be able to tell which should be the "winner"
<nigelb> ahh.
<knightwise> popey: enjoying house of cards ?
<popey> yeah!
<popey> didn't think wifey would like it
<popey> she was hooked after the first episode
<popey> nice to have something to watch together
<knightwise> We are into those kinds of things here
<popey> we burned through OITNB pretty quickly
<knightwise> watched BORGEN together and BOSS, also a very good show
<knightwise> the second season of OITNB was a little poor.
<knightwise> We love shows that require us to FOCUS ,
<knightwise> currently watching , House of Cards and Broadchurch
<popey> yeah, we loved broadchurch, but missed the first season so only saw the second
<knightwise> thats a bit hard to drop in halfway in the middle but still its a great show
<popey> nah, the second season can be watched alone
<knightwise> first season is good too
<knightwise> I love the music from broadchurch
<MooDoo> don't watch the american version with david tennant in it, he's got an american accesnt lol
<popey> I really like Olivia Colman
<popey> hah
<knightwise> MooDoo: AURCH
<knightwise> She is awesome indeed :)
<MooDoo> popey: get in the queue she's mine
<popey> hahah
<popey> You can have her, my heart belongs to Alex Polizzi
<knightwise> LOL
<MooDoo> :)
<popey> also Kirstie Allsopp
<MooDoo> alex kingston for me  :D
<knightwise> MooDoo: get in line for Alex Kingston (behind my wife)
<knightwise> Sarah Alexander .!
<MooDoo> knightwise: you want me to get behind your wi.....erm no!
 * knightwise pulls MooDoo 's mind from the gutter
<MooDoo> knightwise: apologies sir!
<popey> oooh, Sarah Alexander, long time on my list, since the old Alexander Armstrong comedy things.
<popey> also Michaela Strachan
<knightwise> Glynis Barber
<popey> every time she's on the telly, wifey goes "ooh look alan, your other wife"
<popey> retro!
<knightwise> in the dempsey and makepeace days
<popey> yeah
<popey> still looks fabulous now.
<popey> used to love that programme
 * knightwise doesnt have cable
<knightwise> I miss the BBC a little
<knightwise> we used to watch loads of stuff on there
<MooDoo>   knightwise do you have any tv?
<knightwise> MooDoo: we do . We have our chromecast and a pc hooked up to it .. thats it
<MooDoo> do you still have to pay for a license for that?
<knightwise> we watch some shows on netflix , stuff on youtube , sometimes a movie on popcorn time
<knightwise> MooDoo: nope , no cable licence
<knightwise> technically we just have a "screen"
 * knightwise is belgian , remember 
<MooDoo> knightwise: doh of course :D
<knightwise> but we do have a licence you have to pay for TV over here
<knightwise> I don't have to pay it because we don't have cable tv
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: Morning dude :)
<knightwise> Hmm . 100th edition of the FullCircleMagazine, .. i should write another article for them
<Safiyyah> Hi all, I am currently running an installation of xubuntu. I get through the partitions and then when it's time to set the clock it displays an error message "input/output error during read on dev/sda
<Safiyyah> i really hope my hard drive is okay :(
<Safiyyah> ali1234,  directhex brobostigon
<directhex> certainly sounds like a bad disk
<directhex> maybe a bad sata cable, that can sometimes be the cause
<Safiyyah> that was the cause last time as well
<Safiyyah> had to buy a new SSD
<Safiyyah> its new, only been about 10 months
<Safiyyah> the system itself keeps crashing
<directhex> hm
<Safiyyah> that's why I was thinking I needed a fresh install
<directhex> well, an IO error can come from anywhere in the chain - the disk, the cable, the motherboard
<directhex> you ought to get a different error if it's corrupted data
<Safiyyah> this is a recurring problem
<Safiyyah> I think it's my fourth time
<Safiyyah> is it likely to include the processor?
<directhex> in my professional opinion? no
<directhex> i would try the same disk, with a different cable, in a different sata port.
<Safiyyah> before it happened btw,  the computer was sounding like a space ship about to take off
<Safiyyah> no gentle humming
<Safiyyah> and then it died
<Safiyyah> okay well am happy to try a different sata port and cable
<Safiyyah> and come back
<Safiyyah> my little one is stuck in the shower trying, I need to sort her out first, so I will do that first, then get back onto this
<Safiyyah> be back as soon as I can
<Safiyyah> with the new sata cable and port
<MooDoo>  ping JamesTait
<JamesTait> pong MooDoo
<davmor2> MooDoo: stop playing ping pong already ;)
<JamesTait> Can't take him anywhere!
<davmor2> JamesTait: You can you just can't go back not even to apologise ;)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: nothing to do with birminham symphony hall are you?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, not as far as I know!
<MooDoo> JamesTait: lol sorry just on their website and one of the board members is a Mr James Tait :D  you're the only one i know :D
<JamesTait> Nah, it's an imposter. ð
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> JamesTait: someone has stolen your identity........that or you did........./me uses his hacking skills to find out their ages.....
<JamesTait> MooDoo, it's probably davmor2 pretending to be me. ð
<Myrtti> school lunch flashbacks. Pearl barley pudding, strawberries, crisp bread, butter and smoked ham.
<Myrtti> oh man.
<davmor2> MooDoo: pay he no heed, JamesTait doesn't live far from the A38 and that heads straight into Birmingham and their ages are the same, and they have never been seen together in the same room he is batman^wspiderman^worchestra man
<MooDoo> lol haa so JamesTait is actually Symphony man? lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: you sure you didn't misread and he is actually the Cloakroom Attendant
<MooDoo> http://www.thsh.co.uk/about/board-members/
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's the fact he added the Mr like it is something special, don't tell that we are too it'll just make JamesTait cry ;)
<safiyyah> directhex,  I sorted it, I put a new cable, bit of hovering and it took off.
<safiyyah> I am just setting things up as I like now
<safiyyah> thank you very much.
<directhex> you should avoid hoovering, it generates static electricity
<directhex> canned air is much safer, blow dust out
<safiyyah> okay, will buy one next time
<safiyyah> i mean I will buy one now for next time
<safiyyah> thank you, I didn't know
<popey> I found canned air cheap in Wilkinsons
<arsenip> interesting fact: my parents live near Mr Wilkinson, and he once crashed his car into a ditch.
 * arsenip dissapears in a cloud of smoke
<daftykins> phew missed a PM from bujji Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> never had any issues with vacuums ;)
 * davmor2 throws daftykins into the vacuum of space see if he has an issue then ;)
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> you've been talking to zmoylan-pi ;)
<davmor2> daftykins: no idea what you mean, if at first it doesn't break use a bigger hammer, it's my motto, Space Vacuum is the bigger hammer ;)
<daftykins> i see
 * daftykins walks away slowly
<davmor2> I kept catching this music in an advert on tv and radio and I knew I knew it but just couldn't think what it was hearing it like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYluMAO1b7Y  then it dawned on me why I knew the words it's cause Greese is the Word
 * zmoylan-pi offers davmor2 my shiny fubar
<diddledan> davmor2: that's certainly different to the original
<davmor2> diddledan: just a smidgen, it's in the morning head songs play list now I couldn't get it out of my head sunday once I'd found it on youtube :)
<diddledan> lol
<davmor2> diddledan: friend just pointed me at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3E2HeAfcdM
<czajkowski> http://mhall119.com/2015/07/ubuntu-global-jam-packs-are-back/  would be good to take part if anyone is up for it
<diddledan> I could be chilly - it's supposed to be summer!
<diddledan> think I might have to either shut the windows or put on a wooly
<zmoylan-pi> or compile gentoo and use warm cpu for heat...
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> http://www.wired.com/2015/07/researchers-hack-air-gapped-computer-simple-cell-phone/?mbid=social_gplus
<KrimZon> "The attack requires both the targeted computer and the mobile phone to have malware installed on them, but once this is done"
<daftykins> nothing ridiculous about that.
<daftykins> "Windows, Linux and Ubuntu configurations" ah Ubuntu is no longer Linux apparently
<diddledan> and this is an example of why "but it's not connected to the internet" is no reason to stay on windows 2000 (nod of head to whoever I was talking to yesterday who suggested that someone they know is doing just that)
<daftykins> they're using win2k and staying offline 'cause they think it makes them safe?
<diddledan> they're using win2000 because they don't see a need to upgrade because they're not connected to the net
<diddledan> this proves that you still need to be up-to-date even if you're airgapped
<diddledan> it's crazy that government mandates that things not be updated because it requires bridging the gap for the updates to happen
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> OSs shouldn't require it
<diddledan> we're doing an installation in secured (formally IL3) datacentres where we have to jump across several nested remote-desktop environments and we're not allowed to update anything "for security" because it will break security
<diddledan> so the drupal we have running there is now known-vulnerable
<daftykins> :|
<daftykins> gubmint
<Nokaji> govt/military used to have a policy of checking any and all equipment for security purposes before allowing it into their operation - not sure they could ever achieve that with the revolution in software though and closed source
<Nokaji> anyway, early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise
<Nokaji> night...
<daftykins> must be where i'm going wrong
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-28
<ali1234> does virtualbox support pci passthrough on linux?
<mappps> HI ALL
<mappps> oops
<diddledan> I really should sleep this week
<mappps> someone get me some ac
<mappps> ;[[
<knightwise> hey mappps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> allo
<brobostigon> hi diddledan
<knightwise> hey guyzzz
<brobostigon> ey knightwise
<mappps> hey knightwise
<mappps> ;)
<mappps> so hot here again..neeeed ac
<knightwise> Cold and windy up here
<mappps> its hard to sleep
<mappps> due to heat
<zmoylan-pi> you are in a hot climate, why don't you have ac?
<mappps> it's not standard
<mappps> both in spain and here in gib
<mappps> most places dont have ac..my friend bought a portable one off amazn..said its great
<mappps> and im planning on doing the same too
<zmoylan-pi> saw plans for cheap homemade version
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-DIY-Air-Conditioner/ a few hours of cool air...
<mappps> nice
<zmoylan-pi> not much call for ac in ireland :-)
<zmoylan-pi> [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Mostly Cloudy | Temp: 11C/52F/284K/511R | Humidity: 88% | Wind Speed 15mph/24kmph
<zmoylan-pi> [Gibraltar, Gibraltar] Condition: Fair | Temp: 26C/79F/299K/538R | Humidity: 54% | Wind Speed 9mph/14kmph
<mappps> surprising more people dont buy portBLE ac they just suffer
<mappps> uh
<DJones> Heh https://goo.gl/uvTGTt (Safe for work)
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> how are you supermatt?
<SuperMatt> I'm well thanks, you?
<MooDoo> yeah good thanks :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> happy !monday
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<Knightwork> morning peeps
<MooDoo> howdy Knightwork
<Knightwork> hey MooDoo ,
<Knightwork> how are things goin today
<Knightwork>  /join #xps13
<MooDoo> Knightwork: yeah ok thanks, just playing about with my storage server
<davmor2> MooDoo: Classic from the mamas and the papas this morning :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: mostly due to seeing the sky colour this morning :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i've just randomely picked a playlist, don't think i've heard of half the artists
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's why you need my morning head song play list in your life, you'll know them all :D
<MooDoo> yeah i usually listen to that
<Knightwork> I'm going to use bittorrent sync and a raspberry pi to do some offsite backups
<Knightwork> been having some issues giving bittorrent sync the correct rights to a mounted external drive
<diddledan> is it lunch time yet?
<zmoylan-pi> 3 times zones to the east it is
<Knightwork> hmmm.. wondering if I can wear this to work ; http://www.amazon.de/Herren-Baumwolle-gemischt-Fashionable-Asymmetric/dp/B00LFBDUQY/ref=pd_rhf_se_s_cp_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0288WGZVWCQ6ZZ367BV5
<Knightwork> Its on the very fringes of ' a blazer ' but only misses a sonic screwdriver to become a dr who outfit
<zmoylan-pi> definitely from the sci fi end of the wardrobe
<zmoylan-pi> more a baddie leader of the week though
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Milk Chocolate Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> because all those red bulls weren't enough reason to cut your foot off
<Knightwork> zmoylan-pi: it is rather special indeed
<Knightwork> I have this one though. http://www.amazon.de/Keral-Beil%C3%A4ufiger-Unregelm%C3%A4%C3%9Figer-Clipping-Kn%C3%B6pfe/dp/B00RHIWHHW/ref=pd_rhf_se_s_cp_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0N4APZ792AB67C1NNHGZ
<diddledan> JamesTait: now that's a day I can get behind!
<davmor2> JamesTait: http://rlv.zcache.com/the_perfect_week_eat_chocolate_funny_gift_v01_foremostcountdownbox-r3fe488890bbf4d918cdcc4408b59d019_z8lbw_324.jpg?rlvnet=1
 * JamesTait wholeheartedly approves
 * Knightwork doesnt like chocolate
<davmor2> Knightwork: Get out of here, get out now ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-GkwIRbLw8
 * JamesTait nabs Knightwork's chocolate.
<davmor2> Knightwork: that is nearly as bad as saying you don't like cats
<Knightwork> I'm Belgian .. i should LOVE chocolate
<Knightwork> davmor2: i'm a dog person (but we do have a cat)
<Knightwork> https://www.flickr.com/photos/knightwise/20047250625/
 * Knightwork has a Doge
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://youtu.be/3sV6DjrYdr8?t=26s
<diddledan> Knightwork: that's a propper doge doge, too
<davmor2> JamesTait: there is something wrong with you isn't there ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, nothing a holiday won't cure. Probably.
<Knightwork> diddledan: yep . she is shedding right now , that is why she looks a little thin
<zmoylan-pi> roll on winter
<Knightwork> yep .. you won't believe the amount of fur they shedd
<diddledan> JamesTait: davmor2: it took me 2 minutes of watching that before I realised it was eating my brain
<davmor2> diddledan: no it wasn't it was eating choco choco latte
<diddledan> I'm gonna have that in my head all day now
<diddledan> davmor2: find it on spotify and add it to the morning-head list :-p
<diddledan> but seriously, there should be health warnings on that
<davmor2> diddledan: mamas and papas this morning is still protecting me from it, might be different in the morning
<davmor2> Knightwork: My moneys still on this cat https://photos.google.com/u/0/photo/AF1QipOydiJj0fBPv7ITkOoFw7V-J3opUWmGR85zCl8j ;)
<Knightwork> dav, bad link
<davmor2> Knightwork: https://goo.gl/photos/MNRYdjNkxyiugR9d8 try that
<Knightwork> davmor2: if that is your cat it explains the state of your face
<davmor2> Knightwork: No it's one of the cats I sponsor can't really have pets here
 * zmoylan-pi makes do with landlords cats and loads of ferals around
<cocoa117> is there a way to appear to be login to a mchine through SSH and background the  process? E.g. the w would show you login?
<davmor2> we see lots of pets at the caravan park at the weekend :)
<zmoylan-pi> seems cruel for the cats... :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: they love it, and the tortoises and the rabbits as well as the dogs
<Myrtti> cocoa117: sure, hold on
<davmor2> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<cocoa117> Myrtti, :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: what's your opinion on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYluMAO1b7Y
<bigcalm> davmor2: no real opinion. Not in the mood for that type of music right now.
<davmor2> bigcalm: try this then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oFMEeftF78
<Myrtti> cocoa117: -f
<Myrtti> cocoa117: man ssh row 113 (-N and -n) might be useful too
<davmor2> anybody else here really want to hear Kate Bush re sing running up that hill but with the placibo music
<mgdm> I'd rather not hear Kate Bush sing at all
<zmoylan-pi> she had a few good tunes
<diddledan> yey for long-running processes - I've just started a job which should only take about 20 hours to complete
<diddledan> splecifically I'm doing some geocoding
<diddledan> I've put artificial delays of ~30 seconds between each attempt so as to hopefully not fall foul of google's api limits
<zmoylan-pi> hee, did that when i wrote an sms server way back :-) too many sms and the number would be blocked automatically
<zmoylan-pi> never mind it was from a company account going to only numbers also on the same account.  engineers been sent tasks and info relating to those tasks, originally by pager and then sms
<Laney> ruddy ninja carding
<Laney> I had the radio on so he could have heard I was in
<Myrtti> ninja postman?
<Laney> indeed
<TwistedLucidity> Laney: Royal Mail rarely delivers parcels these days. It's more efficient for them to post the card and have to slog out to the sorting office
<Laney> also the royal mail's redelivery form helpfully goes back a stage (losing all the entered data) if you press 'enter'
<czajkowski> ugh
<Laney> TwistedLucidity: this is supposed to be a perk of working from home!
<TwistedLucidity> Laney: But you have so much time to drive to the sorting office!
<Laney> PSH, PSH I SAY
<TwistedLucidity> I find DPD to be the best. Text updates and (almost) on time
<Laney> i'm making them bring it back out
<Laney> don't actually have any clue what it is
<Laney> other than that it needs to be signed for
<Laney> (exciting)
<TwistedLucidity> It's "Sorry we missed you card" :-)
<zmoylan-pi> broken... now... :-p
<TwistedLucidity> Could be worse, could be a missed "Yodel" delivery.
<Laney> hah
<Laney> haven't had them for a while
<TwistedLucidity> ParcelFarce used to block GNU/Linux when trying to send a package, I wonder is they still do?
<TwistedLucidity> Yup - they only support Windows
<zmoylan-pi> not even mac?
<TwistedLucidity> They say now
<TwistedLucidity> At least they let you proceed at your own risk, which is a step forward
<davmor2> Laney: https://goo.gl/maps/BGAO6  not really a problem for me :)
<TwistedLucidity> Check it: https://ship.parcelforce.net/welcome
<zmoylan-pi> internal server error
<zmoylan-pi> if they can't deliver a tcp/ip packet... :-D
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Convince them to install a catapult for "short range airmail"
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Does this work? https://ship.parcelforce.net/intro
<Laney> davmor2: there's got to be an upside to living in Wolverhampton :)
<zmoylan-pi> there used to be a pigeon post for delivering drugs around wwi iirc
<zmoylan-pi> appears to work TwistedLucidity, no errors this time
<awilkins> Is there a pomodoro timer app that DOESN'T require me to install the whole of GNOME shell? (searched for "pomodoro" and "tomato" in Synaptic, got a tomato smashing game and gnome-shell-timer which needs GNOME shell...)
 * awilkins contemplates whether Hamster can be hacked into doing this
<davmor2> Laney: there are lots, Brewery, Pies, Parks, Canals, Theatre, Music Venues, Football, the list goes on :)
<czajkowski> oh someone said pie
<czajkowski> yes please
<czajkowski> send some this way!
<brobostigon> :D
<bigcalm> Lemon meringue pie with clotted cream
<davmor2> czajkowski: desperate dan Cowpie
<czajkowski> food for thought : http://themetapicture.com/oranges-fire-and-deliciousness/
<davmor2> czajkowski: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g187065-d1077385-r145177626-Mad_O_Rourkes_Pie_Factory-Dudley_West_Midlands_England.html
<TwistedLucidity> czajkowski: That is an awesome idea.
<TwistedLucidity> The orange-cake thing
<czajkowski> yup it so is
<czajkowski> popey: something you may like to make with the kids
<davmor2> popey: no don't listen to czajkowski making it out of kids wouldn't be half as tasty
<daftykins> i nearly made a comment about child cookies
<popey> ooh, i could cook those in my chiminea
<arsenip> that looks tasssssty
<arsenip> wonder if i can bbq that
<arsenip> spose i can
<czajkowski> see good  food :)
<mgdm> popey: you can cook things in a chiminea?
<popey> mgdm: follow that link
<popey> 14:35 < czajkowski> food for thought : http://themetapicture.com/oranges-fire-and-deliciousness/
<mgdm> popey: ooh, cunning
<czajkowski> yumy
<mgdm> yet another reason to get one when I finish the garden upgrade
<popey> i got a small cheap one from amazon
<popey> tis fun
<ujjain> How do I find out when this file was deleted? logstash- 30786 syslog   13r   REG              252,0   382880  9175043 /var/log/server.log10846712457531125.tmp (deleted)
<daftykins> ouch, i just phoned up Shure about my earphones to see what it'd cost for repair
<daftykins> no option at all, have to send mine in and essentially buy the new model at a 25% discount
<daftykins> still comes out at Â£208 delivered
<foobarry> oof
<bigcalm> yrrab
<daftykins> XD
<popey> pip pip
<foobarry> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-for-q2-2015/
<foobarry> hmm
<daftykins> foobarry: nice
<awilkins> foobarry, Otherwise known as "Holy **** don't buy a Seagate"
<shauno> it doesn't look too bad for 4tb drives.  but the 3tb were famous
<daftykins> i don't like Seagate anyway, their SMART data increments 'error' values when everything is fine - making it harder to notice something is up
<shauno> I tend to avoid them, except in laptops.  no-one else seems to be doing 2tb in 2.5" yet
<daftykins> mechanical :(
<daftykins> ah well, 3D V-NAND will save us all ;)
<daftykins> those new samsungs aren't bad, Â£750 odd for a 2TB SSD
<daftykins> that'll only keep coming down
<shauno> yeah.  nice to know they're there, but still a little too rich to be throwing at a 5yo laptop.  so I still have one of each
<awilkins> mSATA + Spinny Rust is a very nice combo if you do one of the caching things
<daftykins> i'd bet even without, if you keep the right stuff on the SSD
<shauno> I just keep them seperate.  most the stuff I use in bulk storage I know I don't need anyway.  stuff like photos, music, etc
<awilkins> That probably also works well
<shauno> actually just ordered one of those hp microservers so I can start keeping them somewhere more sensible :)
<daftykins> network storage \o/
<awilkins> NAS box
<daftykins> i wouldn't really call it one if it's a full setup like a desktop essentially
<shauno> (with WD reds)
<daftykins> heh i've got a proper appliance one somewhere that keeps telling me it has OS updates available, but it's not something i'm gonna ride the opposite end of the island to hit 'update' on
<daftykins> WD reds \o/
<daftykins> shauno: don't forget the little vouchers that give you an extra year warranty
<daftykins> they're like a couple of quid each
<daftykins> well worth it
<davmor2> daftykins: cycle pfff isn't that what ssh is for
<daftykins> not to someones house with no Linux systems o0
<shauno> windows is getting ssh in 10 ;)
<daftykins> they also don't run Windows!
<shauno> it's already in osx?
<daftykins> yeah but i'm not gonna setup SSH on someones MBP at home
<daftykins> and a dynamic DNS and... and...
<daftykins> :P
<shauno> yeah, who would do that
<shauno> actually, I coulda swore there was a way to get vnc to connect back to front
<daftykins> yeah i used to mess with that, but meh
<daftykins> i feel wrong about charging someone to hit update :)
<daftykins> so i don't feel hugely inclined to
<daftykins> shauno: are you seriously saying you'd set that up just to do future maintenance?
<zmoylan-pi> where would ms or apple be with that attutude?? :-)
<daftykins> you missed out Linux distros, they're not immune
<shauno> I used to, but then I charged them travel time too so remote saved them billables too
<daftykins> i don't think it's right to open that up on someones machine after only doing one job
<daftykins> regular client? sure
<daftykins> office users? sure. home user like this one? nope
<shauno> yeah, that's why the reverse-vnc was a second thought.  because that leaves the 'open' on your side
<daftykins> mmm, i think aero wasn't working too well with it
<daftykins> i moved to playing with teamviewer a bit ago, but not tried that with macs yet
<daftykins> actually that reminds me - this lady had ubuntu but moved to mac
<shauno> also, my only 'regular' kept everything onsite, mail & all, so ssh was the least of their worries
<ali1234> how do i format a 4TB drive in linux?
<ali1234> i can't go above 2.2TB with fdisk apparently
<daftykins> gdisk ?
<daftykins> can't even remember what i wrote a GPT as onto a RAID, now
<daftykins> what i wrote it with, that is
<davmor2> ali1234: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/fdisk-unable-to-create-partition-greater-2tb.html
<daftykins> oh yeah parted
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<ali1234> so in other words i need to use GPT?
<daftykins> yes
<ali1234> okay, i see
<directhex> MBR partition format cannot address numbers above 2T
<directhex> booting from GPT on BIOS is doable with linux, but not windows
<daftykins> hmm
<mapito> 3 apartments to viw
<mapito> 1 bed atlantic suites Â£1200 extra for pool LOL
<mapito> 1 bed euro towers Â£1150 and 1 bed water gardens Â£1050
<mapito> bargains eh?
<daftykins> o0
<ali1234> directhex: i don't need to boot, it's an external USB drive
<directhex> then gpt is fine
<ali1234> any thoughts on filesystem format?
<ali1234> just EXT4?
<daftykins> what's the data that'll go on it?
<daftykins> certainly no harm in keeping it simple with ext4
<ali1234> literally everything
<daftykins> backup? mmm
<ali1234> single files that are 20GB, directories with 10k files in them...
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-29
 * diddledan blows raspberries
<shauno> go to sleep :|
<diddledan> aww
<mapito> hey
<diddledan> mornin
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<knightwise> you're up early
<diddledan> well technically I'm up late
<diddledan> it's just that late happens to be early
<knightwise> Lol :)
<knightwise> pulling an all nighter ,
<diddledan> :-p
<knightwise> i'm still  a little tired , got to bed late yesterday ,  went to the movies
<mapito> what did you see]
<knightwise> jurassic world
<mapito> ah cool
<mapito> seen it:D
<knightwise> entertaining but .. that was about it
<mapito> seen terminator genisys? agree knightwise
<mapito> went to cinema an d saw terminator on my own..like a real loser:D
<knightwise> probably gonna see terminator next week
<knightwise> we found a nice cinema that is pretty cheap
<knightwise> watched the first 5 minutes of Jurassic world with my eyes closed just to enjoy the main theme by john williams.
<mapito> heh
<knightwise> i'm a soundtrack lover
<diddledan> I love soundtracks, too
<diddledan> john williams especially
<knightwise> john williams, james horner, brad fiedel, hans zimmer ...
<diddledan> he's amazeballs
<knightwise> all great composers
<knightwise> brad fiedel did the original terminator movie
<knightwise> and the second one , that great tradck where they use an anvill to punch out the beat
<diddledan> yeah that one with the anvil is wow
<knightwise> Hans zimmer did the rock  and gladiator.
<diddledan> there's a lot of industrial overlaid with smooth synth
<knightwise> if you want a nice soundtrack for the end of the world you need to call this guy
<diddledan> odd. just reloaded win10iot onto my rpi with the "it's not really RTM" build, and the mac address has subtly altered - either the old build or the new one read it from the hardware wrong - there's a transposed byte: old=b8:27:eb:b3:67:0f new=b8:27:eb:0b:36:7f
<diddledan> note the 0 moving from the last 0f to insert in-bwteen eb and b3
<mapito> this bbc show is utter dross
<mapito> britains bookies..about coral and punters
<mapito> guy who claims he's a pro etting Â£120 to win Â£1k ..then in the bookies betting on the garbage BAGs
<mapito> another idiot 'i look at people who dont have a bet on a saturday and can't understand how they can do that'
<mapito> night
<mapito> off to my pool of sweat
<mapito> cant wait to get ac
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise>  mornin davmor2
<davmor2> Bit of tatu this morning added to the playlist
<knightwise> tatu .. as in the russian pop band ?
<davmor2> knightwise: yes I have a morning head song playlist where I add the track that happens to be stuck in my head that morning today is Tatu All the things she said
<davmor2> knightwise: it's a really mad mix of music
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> davmor2: i remrmber them
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Rain Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> i'm in ireland, this is different how exactly? :-)
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/esEdC0c3YI4
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs_T_cEoX6I
 * bashrc waits for happy rain
<zmoylan-pi> the rain that falls just after you've got home and put the kettle on?
 * zmoylan-pi puts kettle on for coffee
 * bashrc watched jono's review of the latest ubuntuphone
<zmoylan-pi> time to move laptop from desk it's sat on for 3 years, 5 seconds, time to take power supply... 5 minutes.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> playin donkey kong country returns on the wii
<foobarry> because i'm 86% through the game. i need to complete it
<foobarry> but its actually reallly hard
<zmoylan-pi> proper video games are
<foobarry> quite old skool in that you have to play levels 20 times sometimes
<foobarry> and learn them
<diddledan> how long till sourceforge disappears? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/28/dice_to_unload_slashdot_and_sourceforge/
<zmoylan-pi> some one will buy it thinking they can turn it around
<diddledan> crazy that it used to be the go-to place and now it's pretty much useless
<diddledan> they've been out-done by github
<zmoylan-pi> slashdot i think is unturnaroundable now
<zleap> well github is the place for software now I guess
<zleap>  well git hub is easier to clone or fork,and collaborate on projects
<zmoylan-pi> time to bring it out behind the electronic barn with myspace and bebo
<diddledan> github, IMO, is more influential now than sourceforge was at it's peak
<zleap> well things change,  the way we  download and work on software has changed
<diddledan> aye - sourceforge is the old style of single canonical place whereas the rise of git and github allow the decentralised paradigm that fits so sublimely
<diddledan> sf.net never really evolved beyond CVS/SVN
<zleap> and it was dsigned by hackers for hackers,   or if I am right linus had something to do with github
<foobarry> slashdot is 3-day old news for greybeards
<foobarry> the stories are ok but the comments are ridiculous
<diddledan> I never got the whole slashdot thing
<diddledan> same with reddit
<foobarry> reddit is vast , and has niche subreddits of interest if you have a niche hobby
<mgdm> I used to read Slashdot, but I gave up about 5 years ago, haven't really missed it since
<foobarry> or specific forums for your smartphone et
<foobarry> i read slashdot tiwtter feed
<foobarry> the stories are decent enough
<foobarry> and other feeds are full of junk (e.g the verge)
<foobarry> boingboing dupe everything on their feeds, making them useless
<foobarry> and el reg sucks
<zmoylan-pi> i use alterslash to follow slashdot but hang out on soylent news now with other slashdot refugees
<mgdm> I got really bored of boingboing a while ago
<diddledan> lol @ go-lang's "cowboy gopher": https://blog.golang.org/gophercon2015.jpg
<diddledan> oh yeah. lunch
<awilkins> Wowzer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgk4U4qVpNY
<diddledan> awilkins: the biggest point for me is in the last moments of that video where they say that write-cycle count doens't impact life
<awilkins> I've not had any NAND flash devices that cost more than Â£1.50 fail so far
<diddledan> I still worry about flash even though it's supposed to be fine these days
<awilkins> I rather liked the "This is 1,000 faster than NAND flash and cheap too" bit
<diddledan> aye
<awilkins> If it's cheaper than NAND it will be a total game changer
<diddledan> need a new mobo :-p
<awilkins> The whole "Single unified storage pool" thing did NOT appeal to me
<diddledan> my mobo isn't EFI so I don't believe it can do NVMe/PCIe
<awilkins> "Yeah! Because long-term storage is now as fast as RAM we can use it AS RAM!!!!211!!!  "
<zmoylan-pi> for a while, yes :-)
<awilkins> (10 minutes later, a badly written instruction deletes several important OS utilities)
<diddledan> that's an interesting thought there - if you're using long-term as RAM do we even need to include any DRAM in our systems?
<awilkins> With a 64-bit processor, you can address bumloads of RAM
<awilkins> or "memory"
<diddledan> completely remove the DRAM and you've simplified things
<awilkins> Think it would be great for portable devices
<diddledan> it'll improve battery life if you can remove the dram and store runtime memory on long-term storage that doesn't need power to maintain state
<daftykins> diddledan: did your surface firmware update go on in the end?
<diddledan> there's been another newer one since then. No idea whether that new one applied yet or not. but the old one never did work.
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> just downloaded a win10 64-bit ISO
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> that'll be fake
<diddledan> or pre-release which is akin
<daftykins> nah from the media creation tool on the MS site
<daftykins> i know how to spot fakes ;)
<diddledan> there's a media creation tool?
<popey> yes
<daftykins> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
<popey> you can get the iso already
<popey> I grabbed it hours ago
<daftykins> might re-do my desktop, although mines one of the older nvidia cards without a DX12 driver for now - not that that matters (:
<popey> upgrade fails here
<popey> reboots, fails, reboots back and undoes it
<diddledan> doesn't that iso need a win10 key tho?
<diddledan> i.e. not an upgrade
<daftykins> diddledan: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/faq?3e26a302-d673-443a-ade9-97844670c197=True
<daftykins> takes a 7 serial or reads the 8 serial from the EFI
<popey> I grabbed an iso, but am also doing an upgrade
<daftykins> i'll nuke from orbit i think
 * daftykins doesn't believe in upgrades
<diddledan> and.. if you can do it that way then what was the point of this lil icon in my taskbar....
<daftykins> just for noobs.
<popey> can't be bothered to reinstall
<popey> will wait till they fix this
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> whole OS probably needs a bit more polish really ;)
<foobarry> is win10 harder on hardware than 7 /8
<daftykins> lighter
<daftykins> way better than even 7
<foobarry> is that official?
<daftykins> how official can such a claim be o0
<foobarry> seems unMS like
<diddledan> foobarry: it seems faster
<popey> yeah, I heard the same, its lighter
<popey> indeed that 8.x was
<diddledan> that should be in air quotes
<diddledan> "it seems faster"
<diddledan> ref: http://www.windowscentral.com/seems-faster
<tpe> I was considering updating my hardly-used Win 7 partition to 10 until I read this... http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/
<awilkins> Hang on, can you just feed Win10 ISo a Win7 serial?
<awilkins> (until next year, natch)
<tpe> I know most of this can be switched off, but to be on by default... well, my already zero trust in MS has entered negative values.
<diddledan> awilkins: seems so
<awilkins> I presume it then shoves a Win10 key in the EFI
<daftykins> tpe: usual scaremongering
<diddledan> awilkins: how will that work when I don't have an EFI?
<awilkins> Dunno
<awilkins> Meh
<awilkins> Maybe it does what it does now and stores it somewhere in the registry
<daftykins> diddledan: you put a serial in
<daftykins> you can still do legacy installs
<tpe> daftykins: How far can these "privacy" policies go before they're not just scaremongering anymore?
<zmoylan-pi> it would only take one update to turn it back on acidently of course
<daftykins> tpe: well that article makes out like it's sharing all your wireless passwords, which is an option you can turn off on initial boot
<daftykins> so yeah, if you're unknowing and always select defaults on OS install - sure it'll do something undesirable
<daftykins> but it doesn't sound like end of world desirable ;)
<tpe> Oh yeah, as I said, it can mostly be switched off. But the fact it's there in the first place is (in my opinion) pretty disgusting.
<tpe> If people understand the implications and still want to use it, fair enough.
<daftykins> tpe: what do you use?
<daftykins> we had plenty of tinfoil hat wearers come in #ubuntu crying over the amazon stuff
<daftykins> still do from time to time :)
 * bashrc adjusts tinfoil
<tpe> Ubuntu on the desktop, Arch on the laptop.
<daftykins> bashrc: you look like an extra from Space:1999! :D
<tpe> Desktop has a Win 7 partition that hasn't been used in a fair while. Old work stuff, mostly
<daftykins> ah
<bashrc> http://atemporarydistraction.com/images/space1999-3.jpg
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> extra :(
<tpe> I have VMs of XP and 7 which pretty much cover any rare need for Windows these days.
<daftykins> i just murdered a lot of 8 stuff
<daftykins> that can be truly filed under 'Vista 2.0' now
<diddledan> bashrc: I like that a "human decision [is] required" :-p
<tpe> Didn't bother with 8 at all... but I'm likely to be one of those "annoying" Windows 7 holdouts, at least for the times Windows is required.
<daftykins> 7 is definitely nice
<daftykins> i've got all clients i can on it
<daftykins> definitely no need to drag them off
<tpe> The only reason I migrated from XP to 7 was because a 3TB external hard drive won't work with XP. ;)
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> you could've gotten XP 64-bit!
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> (no, not really - terrible idea)
<tpe> Indeed, if I wanted to be raped up the arse.
<popey> uh, now now.
<daftykins> tpe: family friendly please
<Seeker`> XP -> 7 (and then probably to 10 at some point)
<diddledan> popey, popey, he's our man, if he don't like it. it's not family friendly!
<Seeker`> before they introduce 11, which following Microsofts usual development standards, will be rubbish
<popey> I dont believe 11 is on the horizon
<popey> 10 is a "rolling release"
<foobarry> sounds ominous
<popey> sounds great!
<foobarry> people are worried about subscriptions
<tpe> XP was solid for years for me... I had it on release, and surprisingly never really ran into problems. Even before the first SP.
<popey> yeah, xp worked well for me too
<popey> i remember having a dodgy copy when it came out, on the day we moved into this house, well the day we had a house warming
<diddledan> I really don't get how many times microsoft have to say "no, there is not going to be a subscription" before people finally accept it
<popey> people saw my pc and were like "whats that!"
<daftykins> tpe: EOL is EOL
<popey> diddledan: not seen the subscription in Solitaire then?
<Seeker`> diddledan: they'll accept it when there is never a subscription :P
<foobarry> because adobe
<popey> http://uk.businessinsider.com/solitaire-windows-10-pay-to-remove-ads-2015-7
<tpe> I switched to Ubuntu after looking at the idea of moving to Vista. Didn't really want that.
<daftykins> XD
<popey> $1.49 a month or $9.99 a year
<daftykins> they'll rake it in from all the people not working wanting no ads ;)
<popey> that smells like a subscription to me
<popey> The whole ploy is to get people to punch their credit cards into the database
<diddledan> wtf? "coins"?
<popey> right now Apple, Amazon and Google have vast databases of customer credit cards
<diddledan> what are "coins" for?!
<popey> which makes it frictionless for their customers to buy stuff
<popey> Microsofot have never really got over that barrier
<popey> because people don't buy the OS in a store with an @microsoft account
<popey> unlike apple which kinda makes you sign up with a CC on day one of opening up your shiny iphone / imac etc
<tpe> What would happen if I were to clean install Windows 10 on a machine not connected to the internet?
<tpe> How far would I get?
<directhex> activation failure
<directhex> i mean, you can install/use it fine & use phone activation - i have to, as it has no built-in driver for my desktop's lan
<daftykins> i've just gotten to desktop in a VM without entering a key
<foobarry> wait 1 month
 * diddledan mumbles something about "gotten" not being a real word
<foobarry> windows 7 does that too
<tpe> I'm thinking along the lines of needing to run it on a non-networked music production machine at some point in the future. I have no interest in running it on my connected workstation.
<daftykins> yeah i know how it works :)
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/mLY5015.jpg
<daftykins> just you had to make modifications to let 8 let you in with the images it downloaded
<foobarry> finished my other thing
<popey> diddledan: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/gotten
<diddledan> popey: that proves my point
<awilkins> What about "snuck" ?
<diddledan> "north american" isn't real speak
<popey> "As past participles of get, got and gotten both date back to Middle English."
<popey> lrn2read
<directhex> snuck!
<directhex> i like snuck
<daftykins> ah memories of Office Space (the film) come up when win10 says "Just a moment..."
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q51ld-scMI8 < snuck
<popey> snuck is word of the day
<diddledan> awilkins: I snucked
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport |IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | Beer Train! http://tinyurl.com/choochoo2015 | "Snuck"
<diddledan> lol. gotta love jenny garner
<daftykins> who? :)
<diddledan> then next pops up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty4PhRWt1hU
<daftykins> ooh i tell a lie, it's not letting me complete the initial OOBE wizard whilst being offline and not having entered a product key
<daftykins> actually it's online
<daftykins> ah no now it works :)
<popey> tsk, windows 10 install fail doesn't clean up after itself
<daftykins> it'll keep the install folder there i'm sure?
<daftykins> to avoid downloading the lot again
<popey> not just that
<popey> it left the bootloader entry
<popey> so when booting windows you get "Start windows normally" and "Windows setup"
<popey> choose setup and it barfs because some stuff has been deleted
<popey> also https://twitter.com/ishabazz/status/626403883871395840
<diddledan> oh dear
<diddledan> lol @ something happened
<popey> reminds me of when I was on a course, and MSSQL gave the best error it could:-
<popey> "0xFFFFFFFF - Catastrophic failure."
<popey> okay then!
<daftykins> i still put this under 'upgrades' :)
<awilkins> The "FFFFFFFFFF" is just because the real message has been truncated a little
<shauno> "FFFFFFFF....." is how I announce most "catastrophic failures" too
<shauno> it's a bit more universal than E_STUBTOE
<daftykins> electronically stub ones toe?
<diddledan> E_STUBTOE is something about a function being unimplemented?
<diddledan> i.e. it's a stub
<awilkins> They left some underscores out
<awilkins> STUB_TO_E
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> They wrote an error function that didn't have code in it
<daftykins> steptoe and son
<diddledan> why do I suddenly get the phrase "SETEC ASTRONOMY" pop into my head?
<diddledan> (yes, I know where it's from and what it means. it's just random that I suddenly thought of it)
<shauno> of all the things that pop into your head, this is the one you question?
<daftykins> :)
<diddledan> speaking of which, apparently I don't have a folder called "asswords"
<diddledan> ??
<daftykins> maybe shauno was taking the P
<diddledan> hmm
<Seeker`> diddledan: why not?
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/CGfEWWT.png
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> grumpycat looks like he's let himself go
<awilkins> It's funny because Windows 10 finally has multiple virtual desktops and ALMOST has SSH now!
<Seeker`> awilkins: being windows it's missing the "Secure" part? :P
<awilkins> And definitely because the stereotype of all Linux users being fat neckbeards is totally true : http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yOEwD8OWuQc/Tdyk-T3cYzI/AAAAAAAAAV8/D6BIfJNCyoI/s1600/4108114455_1dc2bed37e.jpg
<daftykins> Seeker`: childish
<daftykins> been plenty of open sauce dramas of late
<Seeker`> daftykins: not serious
<diddledan> I need chocolate
<daftykins> i have stacks of the stuff D: very dangerous
<Seeker`> diddledan: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33690211
<diddledan> but I don't _Want_ to curb my chocolate eating
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: You know chocolate is poisonous, right?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: so're carrots
<TwistedLucidity> So...chocolate carrot cake is a weaponised dessert?
<Seeker`> everything is fatal if you eat too much of it
<Seeker`> including "nothing"
 * bashrc considers weaponised puddings
<TwistedLucidity> So homeopathic medicines /do/ have an effect after all!
<diddledan> how can you have too much when nothing is in essence not enough
<TwistedLucidity> nothing does not imply "not enough". There are somethings I am perfectly happy to have "nothing" of, thanks!
 * diddledan hands around the arsenic
 * TwistedLucidity tries to remember if it's that or cyanide in some nuts....
 * diddledan tries to remember if he's nuts
<Seeker`> TwistedLucidity: cyanide in almonds I think
<TwistedLucidity> Seeker`: it is
<daftykins> turns out booting the ISO rejects a win7 key as-is, so i have to upgrade it first
<daftykins> slight shame but ah well (:
<foobarry> is win10 day a sucess for ms? seems so
<daftykins> found some reports online?
 * popey retries the upgrade with the linux hard drive unplugged
<foobarry> it seems linux ppl are upgrading their otherOSes whereas usually it's greeted with derision and meh
<foobarry> and patches
 * davmor2 derises and meh's
<awilkins> If I upgrade my WIndows I fear it will trash my Linux partition
<awilkins> All on the same drive
<popey> that did it
<popey> sheesh
<popey> its now upgrading, now I took my second drive out
<davmor2> popey: is your system uefi?  I'm assuming windows 10 will magically enable a key and then lock out your linux drive anyway right ;)
<popey> np
<popey> no
<daftykins> toxic talk, that
<popey> mine is a ye olde bios system
<davmor2> daftykins: hey I'm only guessing :P
<daftykins> yes, but quite silly
<awilkins> It does like to trash grub
<awilkins> grub : detects Windows and kindly adds a boot entry
<awilkins> Windows : just blats the MBR because hey, no-one runs anything else, right?
<daftykins> actually 10 preview since it became open to the public sat beside my xubuntu install just fine
<daftykins> :)
<popey> blimey, that was quick, it's finished upgrading
<popey> hah, well, aside from the post upgrade nonsense :)
<popey> \o/ 640x480-o-vision
<shauno> silly question, but can you actually buy windows 10 ?
<daftykins> eventually
<daftykins> not yet
<shauno> ah.  I wondered what I was doing wrong.  their site sent me round in circles :)
<directhex> awilkins: i find dual-booting much less stressful in UEFI land
<directhex> since there's no more contention for bootloaders
<foobarry> science museum or natural history museum for a bright 5yr old who loves science and the natural world?
<foobarry> prob don't have time for both
<shauno> I'd probably say natural history museum, just because it's the only one I can still remember 20 years later
<foobarry> heh
<directhex> french embassy. it's right next to both museums, and has the excitement of sitting in a waiting room!
<foobarry> i might do the science one to check it out
<foobarry> the upside is high
<foobarry> if its too over his head then natural history i a safe bet
<foobarry> bcos dinsouaurs
<Nokaji> Are we talking London's Science Museum? - I've just been reviewing my photos from my visit last month
<foobarry> yes Nokaji
<Nokaji> righty, mine was a fast excursion through the place as was pushed for time hence plenty of photos so I can review at my leisure
<Nokaji> they have a Cray1 there
<foobarry> anything for young kids?
<Nokaji> plenty of youngsters there, so i guess so - cars, space, olde world things ofc
<Nokaji> you can film and use flash, they don't give a damn
<foobarry> ta
<Nokaji> flciking through my photies - space rockets, space men, steam rockets (train), stagecoch, cabinet of stuff inc old clocks, telescopes, pipe organ, penny farthing, old work tools, biplane, cars stacked up in a line, lodsa cars foden truck, meschersmitt car (bubble cars), car cut in half to show parts, colchester lathe, things to read, things to test your smelling - that's as far as i got
<Nokaji> have to give credit to my point and shoot  camera, always up to the task, always in focus, always steady, good lighting, higlhy detailed 12MP pics
<Nokaji> and fast
<foobarry> gonna do space section, then launchpad and then nip over to the natural history for est of our time
<foobarry> lots of the best stuff is for adults, and older kids
<foobarry> just gonna take smartphone instead of heavy camera
<foobarry> its mainly a day out for the lad
<Nokaji> I'd have toured exhibition road et al if i'd given myself enough time, too
<Nokaji> hope he? likes it, most seem to
<Nokaji> boys toys is usually a winner
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-30
<mapwrk> Hm
<mapwrk> Hi
<mapwrk> My location: Gibraltar, Gibraltar
<mapwrk> Oops
<knightwise> mroning
<shauno> aloha
<knightwise> hey shauno, how are you today
<shauno> I have no idea yet :)  it'll take two cups of coffee and an empty inbox before I can decide that
<knightwise> I'm on the one cup of coffee mark
<knightwise> but i'm also at the post morning workout part , so i'm pretty awake
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds like a reason not to workout to be honest :-p
<knightwise> I have a routine in the morning , do a quick workout while i put the kettle on
<knightwise> by the time coffee is ready, so is my workout
<knightwise> planning on doing some urban exploring next week
<knightwise> abandoned colemine in the area is just waiting for a visit
<knightwise> #urbex
<shauno> my 'morning routine' is much more like something out of 'shaun of the dead'
<knightwise> lol
<knightwise> Shauno of the dead
<knightwise> ok , off to my first meeting , ttyl
<knightwise> Shelllldorrr AFK
<shauno> hm.  who on earth are Hermes and what are they doing with my package.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cheesecake Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi hasn't had cheesecake in yonks...
<shauno> I had strawberry cheesecake icecream.  if that counts.
<bigcalm> Mmmmm, cheese caaaaaake
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qe7YmYgowM
<davmor2> JamesTait: or the one I was actually thinking of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrhdYQ_wMg
<JamesTait> It's OK, davmor2, I daren't click on any links now I've looked at the first one.
<davmor2> JamesTait: the second one is Louis Armstrong
<popey> wise to avoid anything davmor2 posts
<popey> earworms usually
<JamesTait> That's more like it, davmor2. Though, as popey says, earworm.
<davmor2> popey: louis armstrong singing about cheesecake what can possibly be earwormy about that
<popey> lalalalalala not listening
<davmor2> popey: All the things that she said, that she said, are running through my head, running though my head, running through my head......I got no idea what you mean earworms pffff
<davmor2> So this morning I woke up with Golden Eye in my head which of course lead to lots of other bond themes I can't find the real copy of skyfall on spotify though and the versions on there are crap :(
<directhex> Let the sky foal ennet crumb bowl
<davmor2> directhex: see even that is better than the ones on spotify
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://youtu.be/RBumgq5yVrA and https://youtu.be/CnQ8N1KacJc are the two that seem to be on repeat in my head lately.
<popey> fun http://whatever.scalzi.com/2015/07/29/the-upgrade-from-hell/
<davmor2> JamesTait: whenever I hear the group name I think of this though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nlygb1Qfw
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mgdm> morning
<davmor2> JamesTait: so I think this would slot into that repertoire nicely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-UzXIQ5vw
<davmor2> JamesTait: or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orv_F2HV4gk
 * JamesTait feels a YouTube playlist coming on.
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're welcome
<JamesTait> Earworm Radio. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: that's my morning head song playlist :P
<davmor2> JamesTait: If you want a funky day that helps you be productive, Start the do the 50+ playlist on Stiltskin Inside
<davmor2> -do the
<JamesTait> Not forgetting https://youtu.be/8I8mWG6HlmU?list=RD8I8mWG6HlmU
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eawL6aJ2nBc
<JamesTait> https://youtu.be/jofNR_WkoCE
<davmor2> popey: never complain about me again after JamesTait last post even I'm not that low ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ6zr6kCPj8
<Laney> jesus christ
<knightwise> surpirisingly catchy !
<davmor2> knightwise: which?
<davmor2> knightwise: we just pushed out a list of earworms and you say catchy ;)
<knightwise> the last one
 * knightwise is watching some old Space 1999 episodes :) 
<zmoylan-pi> season 1 or season 2?
<knightwise>  this one is a season 2 episode
<knightwise> although season 1 is better
<knightwise> but catherine shell is plain 70's drop dead stunning
<zmoylan-pi> ah the jeri ryan of space 1999
<knightwise> well put ..
<zmoylan-pi> the mention of cheese cake earlier made me think of her... :-)
<brobostigon> and ST:VOY.
<knightwise> an awesome episode indeed where she has the doctor "inside" her .. magnificently entertaining
<davmor2> JamesTait: I present you with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MdABLcI7RI
<knightwise> cant believe that terry hatcher was a bondgirl
<knightwise> horribe
<davmor2> knightwise: did you not see her in tango and cash
<zmoylan-pi> we just have to convince them to have christina hendricks as villan in next bond movie...
<knightwise> she was a lot younger then
<knightwise> desperate housewives ruined her for me
<brobostigon> and she had a quest role in ST:TNG.
<knightwise> brobostigon: equally terrible
<knightwise> the outrageous okuda
<knightwise> sorry okona
<brobostigon> that ep yes, not ST:TNG, that was great.
<knightwise> true
<davmor2> JamesTait, knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h61QG4s0I3U
<knightwise> THAT is an awe-some track !
<knightwise> played it a lot in my DJ days during warmup
<popey> a way better track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O6q7JzYqMs ;)
 * knightwise imagines popey rocking out to this in the shower ... quite disturbing image
<knightwise> Belgian Culture : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di-z4XSnus8
<davmor2> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25ytsEt87ro
<davmor2> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw9GNz-EYP8
<knightwise> Catcy remix here :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8xcS4HKgNA
<mappps> urgh
<mappps> like 3 hrs sleep
<mappps> too hot and noise outside
<mappps> :(
<shauno> hot? in july?  that's what you get for moving to silly countries!
<shauno> 14C & drizzle here
<mappps> heh
<mappps> hopefully one of the new places will have AC
<mappps> viewing two today
<zmoylan-pi> well it is july so the snow is holding off for a few weeks shauno
<mappps> 27c atm
<mappps> outrageus prices here
<mappps> but i dont want to move to spain
<mappps> Â£1100-1500 for a 1bed generally - Spain 750 euros for a 3 bed
<arsenip> spain is cheap++ :D
<shauno> argh.  the artists formerly known as top gear have signed with Amazon.  but I don't want Prime.
<arsenip> :D
<arsenip> great business move eh, makes me now need to sign up to prime, i was already on the edge (trying to not do so even if it made sense)
<popey> I'm glad they moved to Amazon Video.
<popey> Means it's easier for me to not watch them.
<arsenip> xD
<jpds> "Tonight, on Prime Gear, we drive around the Amazon rainforset"
<arsenip> id not be surprised
<arsenip> make a fun joke, and an interesting show :D
<zmoylan-pi> nah a race around an amazon warehouse
<diddledan> mernin
<popey> pip pip
<davmor2> tally-ho
<diddledan> whatchacock
<diddledan> (I have no idea where that one comes from - probably east end)
<diddledan> (my family were east-enders two generations ago
<diddledan> my nan moved from london to hampshire during the wat
<diddledan> war*
<diddledan> and met my grandad who was already here but was also an east-ender
<popey> during the WAT!
<davmor2> knightwise, JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xat1GVnl8-k
<zmoylan-pi> they had to speak up because of all the noise
<diddledan> popey: yeah, when I heard about the war I said "wat" :-p
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'm not sure what you're saying....
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's just a catchy tune :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're so sweet and innocent I bet you still think relax wasn't about sex right :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, don't be silly, it's about taking time out to relax and have a good time. ð
<diddledan> lol : https://youtu.be/Y7aEiVwBAdk
<popey> thats neat
<exobuzz> hi popey
<popey> hey exobuzz
<exobuzz> popey, thanks for the retropie mention on ubuntupodcast (some episodes ago)
<popey> :)
<popey> is there an easy way to upgrade retropie on my pi2?
<popey> rather than reinstall
<exobuzz> which image did you install originally ? or did you install from the script ?
<exobuzz> basically, the upgrade route is - update retropie-setup script, then do a full binary install.. but tbh from 2.6 -> 3.0 would need some manual work to merge in configs etc (and lots of stuff has moved etc). but if you started from say retropie 3.0 beta4 - it should be fine..
<exobuzz> doing a full binary install does not overwrite old configs, but leaves any new configs such as retroarch.cfg as retroarch.rp-dist so any new settings would need to be manually merged/compared
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<diddledan> m00
<MooDoo> how is everyone this after noon?
<bigcalm> All of my creative juices have been sapped by one client problem. I want to take the rest of the day off
<davmor2> MooDoo: how are you me owld mucka
<davmor2> MooDoo: had golden eye stuck in my head this morning which then of course leads on to all the other funky bond themes, But no skyfall to add the list :'(
 * diddledan gives bigcalm a transfusion
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm doing ok thanks, just listening to some punk on sptify at the moment.
 * davmor2 provides bigcalm with a gun, that will solve the client problem ;)
<diddledan> https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify_uk_/playlist/3fFwkB1IzcZlvYZEuiDzUU :-p
<diddledan> romantic power ballads!
<diplo> Without telling me this is a bad bad idea ( I already know! ) anyone think of a simple way to copy a single pub key to multiple users (400+) authorized_keys file
<diplo> I'm guessing writing a script is my best bet
<bashrc> probably
<davmor2> diplo: usb stick
<diddledan> diplo: if you're doing it all on the same pc then it's simple
<diplo> 400 user profiles on same box
<diplo> yeah same PC, basically a app that ssh's from one machine to the other but without creating 400+ ssh keys
<diddledan> diplo: as root: `for i in /home/*; do mkdir -p $i/.ssh; chown $_; chmod 700 $_; cat id_rsa.pub > $_/authorized_keys; done` might do it.
<mgdm> you probably want '>>' instead of '>'
<diddledan> yeah
<mgdm> or maybe pipe to tee -a
<diddledan> mgdm knows his stuff :-p
<diplo> That looks so simple that I should have thought of that!
<diplo> Thanks guys
<mgdm> diddledan: I know some things through bitter experience :-)
<diddledan> mgdm: hehe
<diddledan> mgdm: those are the most fun
<diddledan> I love bitter experience when I realise I've screwed a production system beyond repair
<mgdm> hehe
<mgdm> nowadays if I break a production system I can terminate the VM and a new one pops up in its place
<diddledan> that's nice
<diddledan> I really need to investigate that kind of tech
<mgdm> Aye, it's a handy trick
<diddledan> I keep telling myself I'm gonna investigate docker, too
<bashrc> I've tried docker and it's ok. I don't think it's as big a deal as some make out though
<bashrc> I've also heard a few docker horror stories
<mgdm> docker is quite cool, docker-compose is cooler still, but I"m not sure I'd use it in production yet
<diddledan> I just don't really understand what docker gives me that I can't get with aws normally
<diddledan> but yet amazon announce "we now support docker" as if it's important
<mgdm> You might be able to get more efficient resource usage
<diddledan> obv I'm using amazon as an example, it covers any provider really
<mgdm> instead of having to run two entire VMs to keep two services separate, you can have one with the two bits containerised on the same machine
<davmor2> MooDoo: there had better be sexpistols in that list ;)
<diddledan> davmor2: that sounds like a dangerous liason
<diddledan> sex AND pistols?!
<daftykins> whoa McCoys in new design packaging shocker!
<davmor2> diddledan: water pistols I never said what sort you assumed
<diddledan> daftykins:  :-o
<daftykins> ikr!
<daftykins> had to double take what i'd just picked up to buy
<awilkins> http://jakepoz.com/soviet_debugging.html << In Soviet Russia, cow debugs you
<bashrc> yes, ionising radiation can flip bits
<daftykins> NASA have some kinda new tech trialling up on the ISS right now that's safe from it
<bashrc> cosmic rays have the same effect in space, so taking your laptop to Jupiter might not be a good user experience unless it has been radiation hardened
<bashrc> the Earth's atmosphere shields out a lot of the cosmic crap
<bashrc> at chernobyl, circuit boards on the improvised robots melted after a while
<daftykins> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-RAM
<daftykins> there we go, resists radiation and temperature issues
<daftykins> diddledan: i pulled the win10 key out of my install today (which activated fine! must've been a lot lower load on their activation servers today) then clean installed \o/ (truly clean)
<diddledan> toblerone
<daftykins> mmm haven't had some of that in far too long
<foobarry> verdict on the museums today
<foobarry> science museum: no queue, did a rush job and only did 2 floors. would like to go back on my own without the son :D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> museums are wasted on kids :-p
<foobarry> natural history, long queues , especially for the dinosaur rooms, great for the boy
<foobarry> did most of nat history
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> i didn't see the computers in the science mus
<foobarry> just saw the space room, and the room with stephensons rocket in, and the hands on stuff in  launchpad
<diddledan> stephenson's rocket is in a museum already? I didn't know steamos was that noteworthy yet :-p
<foobarry> saw narwhals and pangolins
<diddledan> yey for ubuntu! :-p
<foobarry> https://goo.gl/photos/F7Ew4gX9xEf4z1zWA
<diddledan> 18:37 <Sbur> daftykins: I'm sorry, but as you probably can see, I'm a noob
<diddledan> self-identifying as a noob is a worrying trend
<diddledan> its akin to saying "I don't know anything, so I'm not going to try"
<diddledan> a much better term to self-identify as would be "learning"
<zleap> what is self identifying
<diddledan> I don't like that people are admitting defeat before starting
<diddledan> zleap: identifying yourself
<zleap> ok
<daftykins> get it all the time with clients too
<diddledan> zleap: hence, self-identifying
<zleap> like with gpg
<zleap> or passports
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> no
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<diddledan> nothing to do with passports
<zleap> ok
<zleap> sorry
<diddledan> zleap: you self-identify as "zleap"
<diddledan> zleap: if you said you were a noob then you'd also be self-identifying as a noob
<zleap> ok
<diddledan> zleap: self-identifying is telling other people what you have decided you are
<diddledan> if I called myself a moron then I would be self-identifying as a moron
<zleap> so python noob or c++ hacker,  like level of skill in something
<diddledan> (not that I'm ever going to call myself a moron. that would be moronic :-p)
<diddledan> it doesn't have to be skill-level
<diddledan> it could just be a name
<zleap> k
<diddledan> I self-identify as "diddledan" for example as a name
<zleap> i guess i self id as zleap then
<diddledan> the point is it's your own decision about yourself - it is about what you think you are rather than what other people think you are
<diddledan> so my complaint here is people being defeatest by deciding they're a noob before they even try
<daftykins> often an excuse to avoid being given links to learn things
<zleap> yeah i see your point
<daftykins> and just want the answer handed over
<diddledan> daftykins: yeah
<diddledan> daftykins: I cut my teeth on a qmail mailing list which really was a trial-by-fire in terms of the members ensuring that you learnt the reasons and the solution rather than them just saying "run x y z and boom"
<diddledan> I try to follow the same path when I help others but they do make it difficult at times
<zleap> indeed as there isn't a one size fits all solution
<mappps> omg its boiling and i have to wea jeans and shirt
<mappps> work party and it says no shorts
<diddledan> interesting issue: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/16696
<diddledan> tor is "unbalanced"
<diddledan> BW == bandwidth - they measure bandwidth of nodes in the network to better asses a node's capability for transferring data for users
<diddledan> faster nodes get more traffic as a result
 * diddledan been loving it up with https://open.spotify.com/user/spotify_uk_/playlist/3fFwkB1IzcZlvYZEuiDzUU
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> the so-called "#throwbackthursday" playlist with this week's subject matter being "Romantic power ballads!"
<czajkowski> .c
<daftykins> hrmm user getting black boxes in notifications and apps from gnome3 on intel graphics, sandybridge gen
<diddledan> it's a laptop?
<diddledan> if so I would guess it's got that hybrid thingy going-on
<daftykins> nah sole graphics
<daftykins> i had an lspci done
<diddledan> no idea then :-p
<diddledan> I only help when the answer's obvious :-p
<daftykins> guy rolled back 14.04.2 to a 3.13 kernel, probably suggest going newer
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> same pretty much
<daftykins> or the problem is interesting
<vormeph> guys, will mesa 11.0 be hitting ubuntu? my laptop could sure use the opengl 4.1 tech :D
<daftykins> this Turing film with Benedict Cumberbatch looks interesting
#ubuntu-uk 2015-07-31
<diddledan> me hungyr
<zmoylan-pi> you in need of dictionary
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> still hungyr tho
 * zmoylan-pi passes diddledan my klingon dictionary
<knightwise> mornin peeps !
<diddledan> marnin
<knightwise> Comin at ya from the recently upgraded windows 10 Surface pro 3
<diddledan> \o/
<knightwise> a little bit of step back if you ask me
<diddledan> tech ftw!
<knightwise> actually feeling like im using an older os; I miss the start screen (no kidding)
<diddledan> you can reinstate that
<diddledan> let me find the right dohicky
<knightwise> I know. I'll play around a little with the new interface and get the hang of it.
<diddledan> settings -> personalisation -> start
<diddledan> there's a toggle for "use start full screen"
<knightwise> thanx diddledan
 * knightwise has to rearrage all his tiles now :p 
<diddledan> lol
<knightwise> in all its not bad. Its a pretty clean upgrade. had a small issue yesterday with the lock screen but that got fixed after a reboot
<knightwise> ok ,; bittorrent sync and a raspberry pi  ? Not a good combination
<knightwise> The btsync process is eating away the cpu like crazy
<knightwise> thinking of  running a "pull" rsync script instead
<knightwise> There , Rsync script running. all I need to do now is to do the RSA key exchange and cron the script
<knightwise> and then (hopefully) it will work
<bujji> hello all
<bujji> *****Happy System Admin Day*****
<bujji> mappps: hello o/
<knightwise> hey bujji ,
<knightwise> Happy sys admin day
<bujji> knightwise: hello))
<bujji> thank you,you too))
<bujji> knightwise:   o/ \o
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> m00
<MooDoo> :)
<xplora1a> mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<knightwise> ok , the new mail and calendar apps in W10 can give Apple a whooping.
<MooDoo> knightwise: liking win10 are you?
<knightwise> not too bad. I think the start button is a little bit of a step back .. But thats probably because i'm not on a desktop (Surface pro 3) in all they didn't do a bad job.
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<davmor2> so morning song this fine day Bat out of Hell
<knightwise> Oh god !
<knightwise> another one to get stuck in my head
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Laney> davmor2: listening to desert island discs?
<davmor2> knightwise: no idea what you mean
<davmor2> Laney: nope, my wife went through her american cookbook and read out the word MeatLoaf and that was that I couldn't get bat out of hell out of my head then :)
<Laney> lolz
<Laney> it was one of the songs chosen on there
 * bashrc is like a bat out of hell
<davmor2> The sirens are screaming and the fire are burning way down in the valley tonight
<davmor2> s/burning/howlin'
 * popey tickles corenominal 
 * corenominal giggles
<bigcalm> popey: the $1m addition was a fun surprise
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> Looks like we'll have plenty of card games for the RAT
<bigcalm> popey: did you get the same cartoon as mine?
<popey> ya
<popey> but with my name on it :)
<bigcalm> I hoped that was the case ;)
<bigcalm> I wonder if somebody with the surname "James" got a cartoon saying "Jamess"
<bigcalm> Or similar surname
<bigcalm> I was honestly surprised to get post this morning
<popey> yeah, me too
<popey> got the "shipping soon" mail at 00:27 this morning
<diddledan> o_O
<bigcalm> Those that do not follow us on twitter have no idea what we're talking about
<diddledan> indeed...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy System Administrator Appreciation Day! ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE_p5N89XQI
<JamesTait> It's funny because it's true. âº
<ujjain> battered means like beaten up, right?
<ujjain> not in the context of fish?
<popey> or drunk
<popey> "got completely battered last night"
<popey> "the woman left her husband because she was battered by him"
<popey> so could be  bothyes
<davmor2> popey: but with a posh accent you can be anything and drunk.  "I went out last night and got completely Gazeboed"
<popey> true dat
<popey> trolleyed, spannered, there's loads
<bigcalm> davmor2: Michael McIntire fan much?
<davmor2> bigcalm: maybe, I might have lots of stand up dvds
<davmor2> bigcalm: Like all of eddie izzards, lots of bill bailey, franky boile etc etc etc
<davmor2> boyle even
<bigcalm> Only mentioned him because that's a quote of his - though he may have taken it from somebody else
<zmoylan-pi> obligatory frankie boyle richard hammond joke... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5eUpF3iQQ
<ujjain> haha gazeboed
<davmor2> ujjain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2hyB_Eg6q8
<diplo> Is there a way of removing chmod access to a user, my google fu is failing at the mo but still trying :)
<popey> for their own files?
<diplo> Yup
<popey> why?
<popey> seems like it would break things
<diplo> Have an issue with people 777ing files
<popey> so tell them
<popey> you're trying to fix a meatspace problem with a technical solution
<diplo> heh, I know right, simple
<popey> educate them
<diplo> Exactly my response
<popey> scan the filesystem for 777 files and email them and their line manager when they screw up
<diplo> I've tried, management suck at my place
<popey> implement policy
<popey> remove their shell access if they do it again
<diplo> But as they are logging in as one user I can't say who it was
<popey> oh dear
<popey> fix that :)
<diplo> Basically we have customer servers, we remote in as 1 user
<popey> yeah, we have had that, we added a gateway box in the middle which they had to ssh through
<popey> using their own account
<popey> so we could see who went through the box
<diplo> Rather than fix an issue correctly they just 777, just trying to work out a way of eithe rlogging it or removing access to them doing it
<popey> i dont think thats a solution
<diplo> I totally agree with what you're saying, it's just falling on deaf ears
<popey> yeah
<diplo> I'm trying to improve my problems
<popey> i think you'd break stuff if you remove access to chmod
<diplo> I don't either, but all the systems run as this user for our app
<diplo> That's what I wanted to test :D
<diplo> I'd rather deal with the problem people myself
<diplo> I'm pretty sure I know who the few offenders are, I guess another way is to log access times on customer servers and log connections from our server and match them up so I have proof
<diplo> Biggest problem working at a company who have staff who have worked since Assembly days of the software
<diplo> I mean we're still running CentOS 4.8 on a huge amount of servers, we still have Redhat 8 boxes and SCO boxes, it's not just staff but customers too
<popey> scan file permissions each day in a cron job - email you when one changes to 777 :)
<diplo> All I ever want to do is bang my head on the table :/
<diplo> I guess that's a good start yeah
<bashrc> is that what sysadmins do all day?
<diplo> Bang their heads on tables ?
<bashrc> yes
<diplo> It feels like it :)
<bashrc> :)
<popey> happy sysadmin day btw ;)
<diplo> I'm implementing ansible currently locally, but got to get it okayed before I start deploying it
<diplo> Oh that's today ?
<bashrc> rather like being a developer, people only tend to contact you when something has gone wrong
<diplo> I'm *supposed* to be a developer now adays
<diplo> I haven't done any coding for maybe 6-8 weeks, fixing other issues
<diplo> Our code is archaic, it doesn't conform to standards.. basically I'm trying to trace all the issues, propose fixes to stop Support calls
<bashrc> maybe the problem is archaic code isn't worth maintaining, or costs more than rewriting it
<diplo> yeah we're re-writing it currently, probably 30% in and being used
<diplo> I'm just installing CentOS 4.8 in a VM to write a document about how to extend LVM / partition as no clear plans on installation / setup
<diplo> Did it on 6 and wrote documentation, but 4.8 has an older kernel and doesn't allow resize2fs to work the same way etc
<diplo> Sooooo much fun :(
<Myrtti> Exploding Kittens!
<bigcalm> Pfft, that was so 9am :P
<popey> hah
<Myrtti> ever so sorry I live in the middle of nowhere ;____;
<zmoylan-pi> no public transport to geet you to centre of wherever?
<Myrtti> it's hardly the lack of public transport that makes the mailman come to our door with our copy of 'Kittens at 1300
<zmoylan-pi> that happens in cities too, at least in ireland
<diddledan> and yeah. so talking in a dead channel doesn't get many responses :-p
<diddledan> fyi, #ubuntu-podcast is quiet
<diddledan> my virgin is dead
<diddledan> I think it was a sacrifice
<zmoylan-pi> so no volcanos for a while at least
<awilkins> New detail about that XPoint RAM stuff : http://www.computerworld.com/article/2954492/computer-hardware/that-new-3d-xpoint-memory-could-last-forever.html
<awilkins> Apparently will cost more than DRAM (but that was obvious, even if it doesn't cost more to make, they're going to claim it does so they can price it more than NAND)
<awilkins> Sorry, cost more than NAND
<awilkins> I reckon it would make a great cache layer on spinning rust disks
<awilkins> If it has that kind of longevity you wouldn't need to worry too hard about it expiring
<awilkins> And I infer it doesn't have the same "page flash" mechanism of wiping, so it's write performance should be really good too.
<daftykins> well from the other article it sounds like it'd be higher density so could just outright replace the lot
<awilkins> Not as fast as DRAM
<awilkins> And apparently not as good for density as stacked NAND - yet
<daftykins> probably haven't done it in 3D yet
<awilkins> Naah, it's 3D, they make a big thing of the 3D in the promo vid
<daftykins> ah
<awilkins> You can use one set of addressing wires to address two layers
<awilkins> Well, one half a set
<awilkins> INitial builds are apparently 128Gbit dies, that's a 2-layer
<awilkins> Sounds like they have room at the bottom for the feature scaling and they can add layers
<daftykins> yeah that's slower though
<foobarry> anyone tried the talktalk family filter thing?
<foobarry> does it block the whole of reddit or just certain sub reddits?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0qtgij96saw40fb/IMG_20150731_192455.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> that thar xbox one streaming
<shauno> it seems my microserver is probably in callais somewhere :(
<daftykins> pesky French
<daftykins> where on earth did you order from o0
<shauno> amazon  lol
<shauno> it went from spain to france, and now it has an "emergency" exception
<foobarry> because of the blockades
<foobarry> can non truckers get to france on eurotunnel too?
<foobarry> have lego always done minecraft, or is it new?
<MartijnVdS> I've installed *gasp* Debian on my main desktop
<foobarry> gaspbian
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: why on earth!? :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I had it on my laptop already.. Jessie + some bits of Sid
<MartijnVdS> it's quite good actuallyt
<daftykins> i'm enjoying win10...
<daftykins> :D
 * diddledan wakes up
<diddledan> my virgin resurrected herself while I was napping
<mgdm> o_O
<diddledan> mgdm: virgin broadband
<diddledan> mgdm: my virgin was sacrificed earlier today and now it's alive again
<mgdm> heh heh
<Laney> speaking of virgin
<Laney> my connection is somewhat knackered atm
<diddledan> grr
<Laney> new outbound connections often fail to establish
<Laney> anyone else having this?
<diddledan> I had trouble getting mysql downloaded earlier
<Laney> like: http://paste.debian.net/287985/
<Laney> run that
<Laney> see if you get to 50
<diddledan> I've got to 9 instantly and now it seems hunged
<Laney> ruddy virgin
<Laney> what are they playing at?
<StevenR> Laney: I've noticed that they've been sucky over the last week or so
<diddledan> ooh it just moved onto 27
<Laney> I only noticed it today
<diddledan> 43
<diddledan> and finished
<Myrtti> https://imgur.com/gallery/SeFWcO9 noticed this on BBC earlier today, surprised nobody else imgurified it yet so I did. https://imgur.com/gallery/SeFWcO9 Babby white lion cubs
<Myrtti> oh.
<Myrtti> double linkage
<m0nkey_> they're like puppies!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-01
<mappps> hey
<SuperEngineer> A good bit of inexpensive fun [Â£1.99 on Steam]: "notGTAV" - simple, small, old time, brilliant
<SuperEngineer> ...one of those games where even the intro makes you smile.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<webpigeon> Morning o/
<orothusuk> Morning
<webpigeon> :)
<daftykins> D-Link in 'stupid looking router' competition: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0AJ2K41001&cm_re=dlink_ac3200-_-33-127-573-_-Product
<penguin42> wow
<penguin42> yes
<Hanra> Hello, is this an appropriate place to ask for help with a boot issue?
<brobostigon> we can help, yes, atleast try, but we arent official support.
<daftykins> brobostigon: now you've done it ;)
<brobostigon> he was abit quick to leave as well.
<daftykins> always the way
<ChunkzZ> anyone own a raspberry pi 2?
<daftykins> i'm sure someone does, what would the next question be?
<shauno> anyone own only one?  ;)
<shauno> I seem to stockpile them without trying
 * brobostigon haz three, two old, one new.
<brobostigon> daftykins: maybe like that nutter from the other week, who just serially abused everyone.
<daftykins> Hanra: welcome back, so... boot issue?
<Hanra> Yes
<brobostigon> more informstion please.
<Hanra> I am dual booting windows 8.1 and ubuntu 14.04
<Hanra> after a recent windows update when I start up I get as far as a screen which says :
<Hanra> "error:unknown filesystem."
<Hanra> "grub rescue >"
<Hanra> Now, I have several live cds
<Hanra> but putting them into my dvd drive does nothing
<Hanra> boot password is unknown (but annoyingly set)
<daftykins> what kind of device is it?
<Hanra> this is a laptop
<daftykins> you need to invoke a boot menu and select the optical drive explicitly
<daftykins> what brand?
<Hanra> invoking the boot menu (f12) shows no optical drive
<Hanra> acer aspire
<daftykins> err, as in one of the dinky netbook things?
<Hanra> I do, weirdly, have about 50 entries just marked HDD, then the windows boot manager at the bottom
<daftykins> or a proper chunky 15" laptop?
<brobostigon> or maybe, said windows update tried to replace windows's bootloader with grub and broke the whole thing and all thats needed is reintalling grub?
<daftykins> 50? O_O
<Hanra> Laptop
<Hanra> and yeah, 0_0 indeed
<daftykins> so you don't have ubuntu on a flash drive?
<daftykins> only DVDs?
<Hanra> that also didn't work
<Hanra> might not have been ubuntu but my flatmate has *something* on a flash drive
<daftykins> hrmm
<Hanra> so far I have tried :
<Hanra> set root=(hd0,6)
<daftykins> sounds to me like incorrect configuration of the BIOS to get these boot devices to work
<Hanra> yeah, I would agree there
<Hanra> if I had the bios password I would fix that
<brobostigon> was there a bios update as well? to change its config?
<daftykins> why is there a password that you don't know on your own machine? is it a work system?
<Hanra> I got it from a friend whose dad was trying to sell PCs with Linux pre-installed
<Hanra> there is every possibility that he thought it was "more secure that way"
<daftykins> so contact and ask for it
<Hanra> Currently in Atlanta apparently and uncontactable
<Hanra> Spoke to my friend rather than his dad
<Hanra> there's a chance that I did it myself in a moment of "clarity" which I have since forgotten
<Hanra> I understand there is a way to do this without a live CD?
<brobostigon> would a bios reflash get rid of said bios passwrd?
<daftykins> did what, set a password? :P
<daftykins> brobostigon: nah doubt it
<Hanra> Brobostigon, I was also under the impression that was an option
<brobostigon> daftykins: i would agree, just worth checking.
<daftykins> Hanra: well it's a total mess given your circumstances
<Hanra> am going to try taking out the CMOS battery in a bit but that requires taking apart most of the laptop
<daftykins> yeah
<Hanra> On the off chance...
<Hanra> what would happen if I took out my laptop's HDD and put it into my flatmate's laptop?
<daftykins> that won't help you
<brobostigon> you could copy the data off it.
<Hanra> I have already copied the boot data onto this pi
<Hanra> I can hook the HDD up to an external mount thingy (technical term)
<daftykins> Pi o0
<daftykins> personally i'd get past the BIOS password issue regardless of this problem
<Hanra> but am assuming the handy tools like update-grub wouldn't be able to update a mounted drive rather than the main system?
<daftykins> you're unable to enter and change settings to even fix things properly, that's a huge roadblock i wouldn't tolerate
<Hanra> daftykins : I agree and now I know about it it's on my TODO list
<Hanra> the main concern is that I work from home and my main work laptop is out of action
<Hanra> I could boot up into windows but *hiss*
<Hanra> also that side of things hasn't got all the tools, vm stuff etc. that I'm used to using
<brobostigon> its probably worth starting with trying to update grub incase windows with said update, did mess with grub.
<brobostigon> however for that, you need to boot off somethign else which cant be done yet.
<daftykins> so what *is* listed on the boot menu?
<Hanra> one mo
<Hanra> 1. Ubuntu (ST9500325AS)
<Hanra> 2. HDD: (same serial)
<Hanra> 3
<Hanra> 4
<Hanra> 5
<Hanra> 6
<Hanra> 7
<Hanra> ...
<Hanra> (all those are the same "HDD" entry
<Hanra> 9. Windows Boot Manager (ST9500325AS)
<daftykins> mmhmm
<Hanra> there were 109 HDD entries btw
<Hanra> nice round number of 111 entries in total
<daftykins> what does #2 do?
<Hanra> Same
 * brobostigon just had his biscuits and crisps afternoon snack. :)
<daftykins> same as?
<Hanra> I think the first is only named "Ubuntu" because of some fiddling I did with bootmgr when booted up in windows
<Hanra> Same as Ubuntu
<Hanra> although slightly less bright...
<daftykins> so just to the grub prompt, mmk
<Hanra> grub rescue, ayw
<daftykins> well i think you're up a creek without a paddle personally.
<daftykins> you could *maybe* look for BIOS updates for that system from inside Windows, but i don't think updating is going to change anything
<Hanra> well, fyi in case anyone else hits this, the normal solution is actually quite straightforward
<daftykins> so your main mission is to resolve booting external media so you can get a live session up and running imo.
<Hanra> but I hit errors following it
<Hanra> mmmk
<daftykins> yeah i'm aware of messing around in grub to check partitions and yada yada
<Hanra> :)
<Hanra> fairynuff
<daftykins> but your own mention of the issue spoke of what was it... "error unknown filesystem"
<Hanra> yeah
<Hanra> when I run "set"
<daftykins> which suggests it's lost its bearing on each of the partitions perhaps
<Hanra> it has root=hd0,gpt5 when I know that hd0,gpt6 would be correct
<daftykins> i don't have the skills with grub rescue to list the available partitions and all that
<Hanra> np, thanks for trying :)
<daftykins> hang on the guy i know who's good with this has just come online
<daftykins> let me see if he's free
<Hanra> sure
<daftykins> hop over to #ubuntu and EriC^^ will sort you out
<daftykins> Hanra: do you follow?
<Hanra> should I privately message him or just chat in the spammy chat?
<Hanra> (sorry, was making a cup of coffee)
<daftykins> we don't do PMs to volunteers, bad netiquette :>
<daftykins> ah excellent, mines black :>
<Hanra> Thanks again by the way daftykins
<daftykins> np
<daftykins> it's what we do!
 * brobostigon just had, a not unsurprising discussion with his gf.
<daftykins> "i want to switch to Linux" ?
<daftykins> :)
<brobostigon> she is an IOS girl unfortunatly.
<Hanra> There are worse things to be
<daftykins> oh dear
<daftykins> i'm quite judgemental when i see a fruity tech device in someones hands :P
<brobostigon> very true Hanra
<Hanra> But surely that means they have a negative correlation of bank balance to sense and can afford to buy you a free coffee?
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i'll have to try that one
<shauno> welp, I love my fruity devices :)
<shauno> and you should too!  especially if you saw how horrid android was before they had something worth copying ;)
<brobostigon> well she did buy me a new pebble for my birthday, :)
<daftykins> ah everything was pants in the past
<daftykins> hardly a metric for current things
<shauno> I just think the whole rivalry is hilarious
<shauno> we basically only benefit if neither of them win, keep the competition going.  but people get so tribal about it
<Hanra> Apple do some lovely design work
<Hanra> and they have *started* to be less closed-system about how they do stuff
<daftykins> shauno: agreed, but i do find it shocking the way Apple keep reading the source of Kodi to see how they're making use of Airplay, then they change their stuff to break it
<daftykins> that's what annoys me about them :)
<shauno> I find almost everything microsoft do to be shocking, but it's no longer trendy to point that out
<daftykins> nah, 'cause Apple are in vogue :D
<shauno> like having to do a raindance to come up with privacy settings that are anywhere near acceptable.  that gets a free pass :)
<Hanra> It's true, we should be united against the Common Foe
<daftykins> i dunno, if you're speaking of 10 there's plenty of tinfoilers going around at the moment
<daftykins> Windows 10 that is
<Nokaji> M$ meteoric rise follows an age ol' pattern of criminals becoming the govt and gaining respectability
<daftykins> oh crikey please don't bring politics into it XD
<Nokaji> I was evoking pattern recognition
<shauno> (and no, they don't want people using airplay like that.  that's life)
<zmoylan-pi> every new release gives chance to be the blogger who first spots the biggest flamingo up in new version of windows
<daftykins> hehe
<Hanra> flamingo?
<zmoylan-pi> some one hasn't watched red dwarf... a flamingo up is like a cock up only much much bigger :-)
<daftykins> can't say i remembered that one
<Hanra> I have certainly watched enough Red Dwarf to know that everybody is dead
<mappps> red dwarf:D
<mappps> i used to like that
<brobostigon> they have been making new serials of that as well, :)
<Hanra> Not something I'd be excited about if I were you, did you see the recent attempts?
<daftykins> the 'Dave' channel Blade Runner rips were terrible, but the newer stuff was good i thought
<Hanra> The most recent series wasn't too bad. The previous stuff with captain hollister wasn't too bad but back to earth was .. Urgh... and the series doesn't seem to have the same feel to it
<zmoylan-pi> well they lost half the writers
<brobostigon> btw, my gf said about the whole, how i feel about children, question/subject. was what i was refferring to.
<daftykins> brobostigon: ah-har
<daftykins> that's dropping a clanger :D
<brobostigon> oh yes.
<Hanra> How you feel about children in relation to apple products? Are firstborns still part of the T&C?
<brobostigon> lolz.
<zmoylan-pi> do you make the kids sign a new eula every six months?
<brobostigon> lolz v.2
<zmoylan-pi> then hock them online when a new one comes along in 18 months...
<Hanra> but seriously, my sympathy, you has it
<shauno> meanwhile, trying to get a bog standard usb audio device to work properly in win7 ..
<daftykins> USB audio :(
<bujji> popey: hello o/))
 * daftykins runs
<bujji> why ))
<daftykins> !pm
<lubotu3> Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice.
<daftykins> we go through this dance every time bujji
<daftykins> it is RUDE to just PM people without request, now stop it
<bujji> friend request)))
<popey> hah
<daftykins> this isn't a social network
<popey> hello bujji
<bujji> popey: hello ))
<bujji> popey: how is your weekend
<Hanra> I don't suppose anyone's used grub4dos?
<Hanra> Eric^^ has suggested I do that to get around my lack of live CD access
<popey> Super.
<bujji> hm great))
<bujji> you are not repying sometimes are you busy.
<bujji> replying*
<Nokaji> I'm trying to install a proggie. I've added the PPA but cannot find cdrtools in either Terminal, Software Centre or Synaptic. The last two call up simpleburn in a search as if it were the same thing (it is similar)
<popey> wasn't cdrtools replaced?
<Nokaji> it is the replacement as far as I can tell
<popey> ah
<popey> my bad
<Nokaji> cdrah, mayber I should be trying to install cdrecord
<popey> cdrkit is the replacement
<daftykins> using policy or showpkg would show it's coming from that newly added PPA?
<shauno> which ppa are you using?
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdrtools
<popey> [M#kKDebian,[14] Red Hat,[15] Fedora,[16] OpenSUSE,[17] Mandriva[18] and Ubuntu[19] dropped the versions of cdrtools with CDDL code from their distributions and switched to the Debian project created cdrkit, a fork of the last GPL-licensed cdrtools version.[20]
<popey> i had forgotten about Joerg Schilling
<Nokaji>  ppa:brandonsnider/cdrtools
<Nokaji> there are two options
<Nokaji> https://launchpad.net/~brandonsnider/+archive/cdrtools
<popey> wodim is what you want?
<Nokaji> it replaces wodim
<popey> wodim is actually in the repo
<popey> cdrtools isnt
<Nokaji> problem is blu ray disc fail on burn at end
<Nokaji> problem is K3B tries to replace buggy codecs or similar form cdrtool but fails if it cannot find it
<Nokaji> I have to install it, for K3B to select an alternative - sounds convoluted, i know
<Nokaji> "Brasero and K3B can't burn Blu-ray out of the box. In order to do so you have to install the cdrecord package from this PPA https://launchpad.net/~brandonsnider/+archive/cdrtools and in doing so you will be uninstalling wodim which is used by default and does not support BD-R media"
<daftykins> so when you say you're burning a disc, you're not actually just throwing data onto it or burning an image - you're doing some conversion too?
<daftykins> or some authoring of video perhaps?
<Nokaji> I'm archiving stuff onto it, I created an image first which was succesgful, the burn failed at 99%. apparently there is an issue with the last file that is resolved by adding this package i seek
<daftykins> ah ok
<Nokaji> I've tried adding other PPA - it didn't take
<Nokaji> on seconds thought, maybe it did. the erorr is unable to find a couple of sub-archives off of the ppa
<Nokaji> still no cdrtools file though
<Nokaji> looks like the file isn't available on the ppa "failed to fetch..." etc
<Nokaji> okay, I'm sure the problem is CDRTools package does not exist, anywhere. That means, sadly and indeed tragically, there is no way to use my shiny new and expensive blu ray burner except perhaps as paperweight
<brobostigon> raiders, bbc2 18:25.
<popey> Bah, stupid Windows 10 machine has decided it no longer has the ability to send audio over dvi
<zmoylan-pi> you need to pay a monthly fee for that :-)
<daftykins> nvidia card?
<popey> heh
<popey> yes
<daftykins> their drivers are super shonky right now
<popey> worked the other day
<popey> suddenly it broke
<penguin42> something updated?
<daftykins> WU probably put another on
<popey> driver says "no audio capable display"
<popey> I guess so
<penguin42> try replugging the display ?
<Hanra> on the off-chance, anyone in Cambridge willing to help me dismantle a laptop to get at the darned CMOS battery?
<daftykins> google the service guide, Hanra
<daftykins> should be one knocking about if it's old
<daftykins> may even be within reach of underside panels
<Hanra> oh, I know what I need to do
<Hanra> just don't seem to have the knack of these latches around the keyboard
<Hanra> in other models the battery is *relatively* easy to get at. Here, it's under the keyboard
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> a model number could be handy if you can share
<daftykins> make + model
<zmoylan-pi> and get a cup to hold the 17 different sized screws you need to remove to get to it :-)
<brobostigon> like the eeepc, it just two latches to pull the keyboard.
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: that's optimistic ;)
<Hanra>  Only two types of screw, so happy
<zmoylan-pi> optimism is when you expect to get them all back into the laptop :-)
<penguin42> or not to be rattling around afterwards :-)
<Hanra> Acer Aspire E1-571
<Hanra> there you go
<Hanra> urgh, this is too much faff. I'm going to find someone I can pay to do this
<Hanra> which is something I rarely ever say :S
<daftykins> i'd offer but there's water between England and me :D
<Hanra> I know, our kind cannot cross water.
<Hanra> it would cause... complications
<daftykins> not for cheap at least
<Hanra> so, back to trying to get grub4dos working
<penguin42> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33746126  oh wow
 * Hanra weeps
<daftykins> Hanra: just get the hardware done, it's simples
<Hanra> It's not simples
<daftykins> http://www.insidemylaptop.com/disassembly-guide-acer-aspire-e1-531-2438/
<daftykins> is that the victim?
<Hanra> That is the patient, yes
<daftykins> looks pretty straightforward
<daftykins> and the target is to the side of the card reader
<Hanra> well, I don't know if I have the tools or the dexterity to undo each of those latches
<Hanra> I have a flathead screwdriver for the pushing of the latch, but nothing that hooks underneath...
<penguin42> I don't think it needs to be a hook; just anything thin to stop it popping back down and reclicking into the latch
<Hanra> tell a lie... stage 1 complete
<daftykins> guitar pic thingy, plenty of choices
<diddledan> morning
<Nokaji> Hanra:  a digicam is a useful beast of burden if you are dismantling something
<diddledan> penguin42: oh dear - serbian lottery!
<daftykins> Nokaji: good call that, pics are always handy to retrace your steps
<daftykins> and i found never start too late else come the next day you won't remember a thing :D
<penguin42> yeh digital pictures are very useful when there are 4 connectors that can all go in one of 3 different places
<Hanra> almost there, just got one corner not separating
<daftykins> persuade it ;)
<diddledan> when I persuade things I usually break the tabs
<Hanra> it's around the audio jack and hdmi but
<Hanra> bit
<Hanra> (technical term)
<daftykins> ah
<Hanra> plastic on the case doesn't seem too happy
<daftykins> another lurking screw?
<Nokaji> daftykins: Thanke ye, I'm building up to answering a technical question one day :)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> good on you!
<Hanra> daftykins, can't see any. Might just be a stiff latch and a fragile bit of plastic
<Hanra> so close... but bailing for a bit to make sure I'm not destroying my laptop (and to maybe cook dinner)
#ubuntu-uk 2015-08-02
<bujji> Happy Friendship Day all
<mappps> morning
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Nokaji> Morning brobostigon
<Nokaji> Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears - Within Terminal is a useful function to scroll through previous code via the <UP> button. After a while though, seldom used code gets lost in the quagmire. Is there a better method of organising/storing previously used code snippets?
<Nokaji> If I knew where terminal kept its log of previously used commands, maybe i could do a simple word-search in gedit, if there is no better method
<brobostigon> morning Nokaji
<brobostigon> use your up and down arrows on your keyboard to find previously used commands.
<Nokaji> I do that however some code is endlessly repeated. My preference would be for a single example to minimise searching, maybe filed alphabetically but that is of limited use unlessI can recall how a thing starts. guess i'll track down a text file it stores it in
<Nokaji> maybe someone has produced a reference work or even an app
<shauno> you might want to play with the ctrl-R stuff that lets you search your history.  'history' alone will print out a record of that's in there too
<shauno> the contents usually live in ~/.bash_history but I think you'll find more benefit from learning how better to use it in-place (rather than just up/down)
<Nokaji> Thanks shauno, I just discovered this as well - http://fosswire.com/post/2008/04/ubuntu-cheat-sheet/
<Nokaji> That Control R stuff is perfect, thanks again - problem solved
<ali1234> why are there two different versions of /usr/include/linux/i2c-dev.h - one of which doesn't work and is the version installed by default, the other of which does work and gets installed if you install libi2c-dev?
<popey> directhex: ikonia http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b063yqpy may be of interest to you chaps.
<popey> directhex: ikonia lots of discussion of colas, sodas and new drinks.
<popey> more tomorrow too
<penguin42> ali1234: Which package does the broken one come from?
<ali1234> penguin42: linux-libc-dev:amd64
<penguin42> ali1234: I suspect that comes from the kernel and is the kernels definition of it's interface from include/uapi/linux/i2c-dev.h in the kernel tree   - it seems wrong that there are two in the same location though
<ali1234> example code: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11985923/
<ali1234> this compiles iff you have libi2c-dev installed
<ali1234> if you don't you get error: âi2c_smbus_accessâ undeclared
<ali1234> this is really stupid
<penguin42> ali1234: IMHO that's a bug in libi2c-dev for putting it's header files there
<ali1234> i suspect it's been this way for like 10 years
<ali1234> and now cannot be fixed
<penguin42> yeh
<knightwise> ok :) spent an interesting morning reading about social engineering
<knightwise> never read an infobrochure of the FBI before
<penguin42> haha
 * penguin42 tries just to watch a Demand5 program and is failing miserably; won't work on flash on a web browser, the app has stopped working on my Android phone
<penguin42> and the kodi/xbmc plugin wont work on the current kodi
<knightwise> any of you ever caught the show 'the real husttle" ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<knightwise> hey big
<bigcalm> Lovely afternoon on the M6. Sandbatch services keeping me awake
<penguin42> bigcalm: erm lovely
<bigcalm> Using service station WiFi reminds me that I should have set up open VPN on my phone. Ho hum
<zmoylan-pi> using public wifi is like sharing floppies in 90s :-)
<penguin42> doesn't sound safe
<zmoylan-pi> the trick was to see how many virii you could get on one floppy... :-)
<bigcalm> Think I'll have a nap in the car
<penguin42> bigcalm: Why are you stuck in Sandbach services?
<orothusuk> andbach services
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: not a lot, if they all wanted their piece of the boot sector :P
<zmoylan-pi> you threw on infected com files and exes which some muggins was sure to run
<Hanra> Quick note to Daftykins : I got my BIOS password reset. All I needed was to get a thin plectrum in town to help me separate the last bit
<daftykins> Hanra: huzzah \o/
<daftykins> Hanra: do much more than remove the battery for a minute or so?
<zmoylan-pi> 1) remove battery 2) count to 60 hippopotami 3) reinsert battery :-)
<mappps> hi all
<daftykins> evenin'
<mappps> cant wait to get  fan
<mappps> s stud hot just sitting down watchinv tv eps is unfun:)
<daftykins> s stud hot?
<mappps> so stupid hot
<mappps> see making me type bad
<mappps> :P
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5wwdkzkizzkwu5/VID_20150802_164853.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> took a video of Condor Liberation pulling into harbour, on a little cycle along the seafront
<mappps> ;D
<daftykins> that was a bit more stable, this one was freehand
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ilt68r7trygbq6/VID_20150802_164622.mp4?dl=0
<Hanra> Ok, I have a new and exciting problem for you Daftykins : "USB HDD: Generic Flash Disk has been blocked by the current security policy" <- That's my live CD booty thing on a stick
<mappps> this aartment i looked at is so nice
<mappps> BUT Â£1200..ac ..and no oven..and tiny s its a studio
<daftykins> Hanra: well did you enter the BIOS and have a nose around first?
<mappps> built as a hotel oiginall which explains why no oven
<daftykins> mappps: heh that's the kinda place ideal for those spending their income straight on restaurants
<Hanra> Daftykins: Bit of a nose around, got the boot order behaving.
<Hanra> Daftykins: going to have another nose around, didn't expect this latest issue
<daftykins> Hanra: is it down from 111 now? :P
<daftykins> yeah look around the security area
<mappps> yea
<mappps> i figure could get a steamer and use that
<daftykins> hardly ideal :S
<Hanra> Daftykins : I only have to active options in security, and they're both to set passwords
<daftykins> so still knackered eh
<Hanra> On the plus side, only 4 options now :)
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> so no luck with DVD or flash drive again huh?
<Hanra> Flash drive is "blocked by the current security policy"
<Hanra> I managed to use an old live CD by changing from UEFI to legacy bios
<Hanra> but when I ran boot repair I got an error complaining I wasn't un UEFI mode
<daftykins> pre-12.04?
<daftykins> oh yeah you don't want to run out of date tools on an EFI system, ouch
<Hanra>  12.04 beta2
<daftykins> so you just need an up to date DVD burnt by your housemate perhaps :P or by yourself from Windows!
<daftykins> you might even be able to use PLOP to chainload a flash drive
<Hanra> why can't I change the security policy on my own darn machine?
<daftykins> because it sounds like the battery removal only reset the user password, not the supervisor password
<daftykins> there's probably a hard disk password too
<Hanra> I can set the supervisor password
<Hanra> it's "clear"
<daftykins> useless without having them all removed
<Hanra> Explain
<Hanra> If I set a supervisor password now, would that give me access to everything else?
<daftykins> doubt it
<zmoylan-pi> i think it does on some wacky asus models? let me check to see if i can find the mention i saw
<daftykins> well considering we're talking about hitting a few keys to enter a password to try, it certainly won't hurt
<Hanra> ok, unlocked
<Hanra> how do I allow the flash drive?
<Hanra> Options are :
<Hanra> Erase All secure boot setting [Enter]
<Hanra> Select an UEFI file as trusted for executing [Enter]
<Hanra> Restore Secure Boot to Factory Default [Enter]
<daftykins> well obviously none of those are relevant whatsoever
<zmoylan-pi> acer, not asus... http://itsfoss.com/disable-secure-boot-in-acer/ ran into it when disabling secure boot a few weeks back
<daftykins> hmm novel
<daftykins> i've never needed that approach taken to enter BIOS via Windows GUI, though it's written about so much
<Hanra> And another reason I hate windows and wish the guy who sold me this laptop chose to just give me a linux laptop (as I requested) rather than a dual booting one
<penguin42> yeh the hiding it until setting a supervisor password is fun
<Hanra> thanks zmoylan-pi
<mappps> Gibraltar
<mappps> Sunday 19:00
<mappps> Partly Cloudy
<mappps> Partly Cloudy
<mappps> 25Â°C | Â°F
<daftykins> i don't think Windows is to blame for the poor state of your laptop
<mappps> Precipitation: 0%
<mappps> Humidity: 83%
<daftykins> it's the guy you got it from :P
<mappps> Wind: 10 mph
<mappps> TemperaturePrecipitationWind
<mappps> no wonder i feel so hot and stick
<mappps> 73% humidity
<zmoylan-pi> i always blame windows... :-p
<mappps> ugh
<Hanra> Oh good, now windows thinks my PC needs fixing....
<daftykins> 25 heh, it was 22 here today
<mappps> but the humidity daftykins ;p
<Hanra> and I really think I can blame windows :)
<daftykins> yeah it's usually pretty high here too
<daftykins> usually up to 90%
<mappps> its horrd
<mappps> you got ac?
<daftykins> nope
<mappps> wows
<mappps> we get lik no breeze hear
<mappps> so even with indows open its horrible
<daftykins> granite house though, it's cool down here in the lowest floor
<mappps> windows
<daftykins> ah tonnes of wind at times
<zmoylan-pi> eat lots of beans... provide your own ac... :-)
<mappps> heh
<Hanra> That... wouldn't work zmolyan. Not sure the thermodynamics of that solution have been fully studied but still... no
<zmoylan-pi> no no, you do that for a month, then stop, then you'll never complain about the heat again :-)
<daftykins> mappps: stock up on ice creams
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> in a freezer, warming up his apartment...
<Hanra> I'm in...
<Hanra> fsck this is a lot of effort
<daftykins> yeah don't buy from a psycho next time
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> selling machines with BIOS passwords, honestly
<zmoylan-pi> there are computers supplied by companies who aren't run by psychos?
<Hanra> they swear they didn't
<mappps> heh
<Hanra> who knows, I may have set it in a fit of confusion the last time a windows update broke grub :p
<Hanra> as I have just had to do because Acer likes to not allow you to change things *unless* you have that password set
<Hanra> this time I've chosen one I'll remember... and I'm still going to clear it the second I finish fixing grub
<zmoylan-pi> it's the i know what i'm doing... cuts branch you're sitting on...
<Hanra> "It's OK, I'll remember the password"
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> famous last words... :-)
 * Hanra makes a mental note to set all his passwords to "I'll remember the password"
<daftykins> and write them down, storing the paper in a 'safe place'
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the customer who used the make of their monitor as a password and couldn't log in when it was replaced...
 * Hanra lol's hard
 * zmoylan-pi spent 15 minutes ringing our delivery guy to read out the brands of monitors he'd retrieved when he installed the new ones...
<Hanra> Oh wow. Just... wow
<zmoylan-pi> the password was of course sony
<Hanra> That was it?
<Hanra> just "sony"?
<Hanra> Laaaame
<daftykins> idiots =|
<zmoylan-pi> the one brand we didn't sell so i was trying about 20 other makes...
<daftykins> i'm amazed any password policy was met by that one ;)
 * zmoylan-pi looks shifty when a security company we worked for used 1 letter passwords for some accounts
<penguin42> daftykins: So there is a good reason to sell machines with bios paswords set if you're shipping them - as long as you tell the buyer; it helps to stop basic in-transit attacks
<zmoylan-pi> it was pre internet so it was more to prevent people 'accidently' logging into other peoples computers to see their data than protection against evil hackers
 * Hanra looks shifty when the company he used to work for mapped all special characters to underscores in their password system
<penguin42> haha
 * Hanra looks even more shifty as passwords were being passed around on the backend systems virtually unencrypted
<daftykins> penguin42: this sounded more a personal transaction than a company, so i'm not thinking so grandiose
 * Hanra also seems to recall passwords were stored using reversible algorithms
 * penguin42 would be surprised if they used any algorithm at all - probably better these days
<zmoylan-pi> rot 13 ftw \o/
<Hanra> Oh how I have missed the Ubuntu startup screen
<Hanra> and, for that matter, the grub GUI
<daftykins> booting your flash drive now is it?
<Hanra> Nope, did that. Boot repaired
<Hanra> done. Fixed. Trauma over
<Hanra> I learnt something this weekend.
<daftykins> winnar
<Hanra> Supervisor password reset.
<Hanra> Much better
<Hanra> Feels good
<Hanra> Thanks for holding my hand through that guys, much appreciated
<Hanra> especially you daftykins for being so helpful
<Hanra> but also I'd like to thank zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> now, i have to admit to not believing a Windows Update caused this, so if you'd be so good as to go update Windows and see if it hoses it again ;)
 * Hanra gets oscar for noobish noob
<zmoylan-pi> remember the fun days we had to fix our computers offline as it was our only computer :-)
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> eh all i did was point you to eric then say take the tinopener to it :P
<Hanra> Eh, still I ended up actually taking a tin opener to it
<zmoylan-pi> and not the hammer... i see where you went wrong... :-)
<Hanra> well, not a tin opener
<Hanra> a plectrum
<Hanra> but same principle
<Hanra> and yeah, so glad I have a billion backup PCs
<daftykins> :>
<Hanra> servers, pi's etc.
 * Hanra hugs his little raspberry-pi
 * Hanra hugs his old tower that now sort of serves stuff when it's not making weird noises
 * zmoylan-pi hails the rasp pi...
 * Hanra hugs his ps3. Just because
 * Hanra plays "Still alive"
<diddledan> m00
<daftykins> hello sir, what's new?
<diddledan> evening
<diddledan> nothing much new
<diddledan> saw my niece n nephew today \o/
<diddledan> my niece can talk now!?!
<daftykins> neat :)
<daftykins> that's scary!
<diddledan> my nephew starts bigboys school in septober
<diddledan> it's going too fast
<daftykins> mmhmm, keep seeing a friends baby grow scarily quick
<zmoylan-pi> it's when i found my 18 month old nephew had managed to insert a tape in my zx spectrum +2 :'-)
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> or you mean, a matching one? :)
<zmoylan-pi> he managed to get a tape from case on shelf, open tape deck and insert it correctly when i wasn't there
<diddledan> ok. I've managed to create a folder in windows that is impossible to delete
<zmoylan-pi> if i had of known he was so trainable i could have left him with a stack of blanks and my sisters tape to tape deck :-)
<diddledan> I am not the "owner" but I can't claim ownership even in an elevated command prompt
<diddledan> > takeown /f wireframe
<diddledan> ERROR: Access is denied.
<diddledan> I have no clue
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> with loonicks at least root can do everything (unless you have evil things in your kernel like NSALinux.. I mean SELinux)
<zmoylan-pi> linux gives you enough freedom to delete the os from under yourself and still keep going... :-)
<diddledan> windows seems .. administrator really isn't
<daftykins> can't say i've seen that one
<diddledan> it's the result of a failed `git submodule add` command
<zleap> i think the idea is that windows isn't set up so that you can do things easily incase someone does that by accident, may MS don't think users are capabkle of being careful when typing
<zleap> npt sure how deltree -r *.* would work in windows as adminstrator
<zleap> from say the c: prompt
<zmoylan-pi> what was the command in dos/windows... recover? that 'saved' files that were lost clusters
<zmoylan-pi> but renamed all existing files at same time for fun and games
<zleap> undelete
<zleap> in linux there is a suite called testdisk
<zleap> which if you have somewhere to copy to, (say a blank hdd) is very good at recovering data and lost partitions
<daftykins> i don't think deltree has been around for a while
<diddledan> to remove a tree from a command prompt these days you use `rmdir /s /q \path\to\folder`
<diddledan> rd is also suitable in the same case
<diddledan> rmdir and rd are aliases
<diddledan> those switches: /s = subdirs too, /q = shut up and just do it!
<diddledan> "press any key to continue" .. "are you sure?" .. "proceed with X?"
<diddledan> don't you love the idea that people need handholding through everything?
<diddledan> those three questions should all be asked sequentially before starting a single task
<diddledan> preferably with the last one asked in-between any subsequent subtasks
 * zmoylan-pi remembers when people used to delete c:\windows and c:\dos before that to free space on their systems...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: \o/
<diddledan> with dos theoretically you could run without the userland and just have the command.com file
<diddledan> I forget what the other important system file was called
<diddledan> something .sys
<zmoylan-pi> right up till they tried to format a floppy, xcopy or backup restore data..., and then location of himem.sys country.sys files
<diddledan> heh, my dos days were prior to himem.sys existing
<daftykins> himem ? :>
<daftykins> ah
<zmoylan-pi> extended memory, then emm386.sys or .exe in later versions
<diddledan> 640KB really was enough for me
<diddledan> I jumped straight from an 8086 AMSTRAD PC1512 (the 512 there indicating the amount of RAMs in KB that it shipped with - we upgraded to 640) up to a Pentium P133 with Windows95
<diddledan> completely missed the old himem.sys days with win3
 * zmoylan-pi was loaned out to other companies to push their systems to maximum ram as i had a knack of ordering things to get maximum bytes of conventional memory
<diddledan> missed/bypassed
<diddledan> yeah the config.sys configuration file writing was a black art
<diddledan> load the cdrom before or after the mouse?
<diddledan> it made a difference!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i had to do all that for a PIII Dell laptop i had
<daftykins> get smartdrv working so Windows would install faster ;)
<diddledan> I remember a friend had an old PC with a pre-IDE cdrom drive that he tried endlessly to get going
<zmoylan-pi> i could spend hours trying to get share, ipx, netx, keyboard and country driver loaded AND still load accounts software in conventional memory
 * penguin42 actually got paid for one summer holiday to do CD-ROM XA stuff on PCs on DOS, and getting 4 apparently identical machines to load the CDROM drivers and stuff and actually let you at the RAM was pretty hard
<zmoylan-pi> after i installed win95 from floppies twice i learned to make cd drives work *everywhere* :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah win95 floopy was evil
<Nokaji> 42/44 discs iirc
<zmoylan-pi> you can't make a parallel cd drive work in dos to install windows... /15 minutes later/ how??...
<zmoylan-pi> *anything* to not install again from floppies
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, the parallel cd drive was connected to a different computer and shared over peer to peer network
<diddledan> I recall with win95 and 98 that if ever you made a hardware change (e.g. plugging a random USB device) it would ask you for the original windows disks/disc to get files off of - luckily our PC (branded by TINY) came with a folder called c:\w95flat which had a copy of the cdrom for such instances
<zmoylan-pi> i copied cd to c:\restore iirc
<diddledan> yeah - the trick was to boot off a floopy and format the hdd, copy the cd to a folder and run setup.exe from there rather than directly off the cd - that way it recognised the folder as the canonical source rather than constantly prompting you for the cdrom
<diddledan> then of course there was getting audio working on early suse
<diddledan> "recompile the kernel" they said.. "what's a kernel?" I thought and blindly tried doing it
<diddledan> I think the reason it never worked, or even never crashed entirely, was because I don't believe looking back that I ever told the boot loader to load whatever random concoction I managed to cobble with the instructions
<zmoylan-pi> i once had a 486 with sound, network and scanner plus extra parallel and serial ports plus second video card all /working/.  my boss wanted to borrow a card and opened screw at back and the lid popped off and fell onto the floor by the pressure of the cables connecting everything.  he took one look and said 'i'll wait for moulan to get back from lunch'
<diddledan> surprise, surprise: cilla black died :-(
<zmoylan-pi> that news is so 1300
<diddledan> in that case then, I can probably post http://i.imgur.com/vnMMaCe.jpg without it being too soon?
<foobarry> is there an app that..
<foobarry> you tell it what tv programmes you like, and it tells you what you might like from this weeks upcoming freeview tv progrs?
<zmoylan-pi> there's probably an app to tell you the app that does that is
<diddledan> ok that folder has magically fixed itself
<diddledan> i.e. it's gone
<zmoylan-pi> /or/ it's copied itself back to where it started...
<diddledan> popey: don't ever change the podcast music! :-p
<diddledan> love the inclusion at the end of the podcast of "..and stop recording" :-p
<daftykins> oops
<diddledan> or variations
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-01
<mapps> gi
<mapps> hi
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Back to work for a break after a week off with the little ones, I'm exhausted! :P
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy World Wide Web Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO1w1Rrcuu8 I think this will suffice :)
<diddledan> morning
<davmor2> diddledan: morning did you see what I did there, I trapped JamesTait into listening to rock and metal for the rest of the day because of my evil genius :)
<davmor2> nothing to do with the fact he likes it at all oh no
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> evil genius sounds good
<diddledan> joy: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/28/vpn_users_in_uae_face_544k_fine/
<diddledan> I like that. el reg describes the wireless network at black hat conference as âpossibly the worldâs most-attacked"
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/jcolman/status/759764029103443970
<diddledan> isnât this like saying âmost weathermen expect rain in the next yearâ? https://twitter.com/biznessreporter/status/760052196704710656
<davmor2> diddledan: no it's like all weather men saying they'll be weather this year, rain is too specific ;)
<diddledan> also Trump is a moron https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/759584582656266240
<davmor2> diddledan: you're just figuring this out now?
<davmor2> diddledan: it's the startrek reference in the comments that makes me smile :D
<diddledan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hyvvbvkm1sjpnig/Screenshot%202016-08-01%2014.52.48.png?dl=0
<diddledan> YEY
<diddledan_> where'd my irccloud connection go?
<davmor2> diddledan_: just over there look you can see it if you squint really hard
<diddledan_> random
<diddledan_> silly thing
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> ello dafticles
<daftykins> hi sir
<diddledan_> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/08/nigerian-authorities-arrest-alleged-mastermind-of-60m-worth-of-online-scams/
<zmoylan-pi> well at least we know he can afford a lawyer...
<diddledan_> unrelated, my nigerian prince cousin emailed me to say he needed some money to cover legal fees
<zmoylan-pi> you put him in touch with your iraqi mate trying to get money out of the country?
<diddledan_> no, I did a western union transfer
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007jlzj
<daftykins> diddledan_: wow count me in, you're going to be rich!
<zmoylan-pi> he'll corner the hobnob market and become a world leader...
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> become the big hobnob
<zmoylan-pi> taunting larger countries by withholding supplies of hobnobs... it'll be chaos
<popey> mmmm hobnobs
<daftykins> but his home town will suffer like Germany and France have :(
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
 * daftykins wonders if this is just a looped gif of popey drooling
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> hah
<daftykins> i think it should be!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-02
<knightwise> Good morning everyone
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperEngineer> 'm thinking of of changing my nick to "zwodder".  [QI Elves on Twitter: ZWODDER: a drowsy, stupid state of mind and/or body]
<SuperEngineer> "Dear boss, I shan't be at work today.  I've got zwodder"  ;-)
<davmor2> Morning all I have this stuck in my head this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuxdjVI-5r0 and I know it all means you have to watch the film again sorry :D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> Hmmh, I appear to have an IPV6 ip address
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<DJones> And an IPV4 one
<davmor2> DJones: I don't believe you, I can believe your router or computer might but not you :P
<DJones> Heh, that could be true
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> hows tricks brobostigon
<brobostigon> knightwise: about the same as the last few weeks really, and you?
<knightwise> Same here , looking for a new freelance contract , wrapping up my current assignment.
<knightwise> So lots of interviews, emails etc
<knightwise> Aside from that trying to find the time to learn about kali linux
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> naming a distro after the goddess of destruction... :-P
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: or after an IPX-over-IP emulator thingy
<knightwise> there are a couple of network discovery tools in there I can really use
<MartijnVdS> which is what I assumed the first time I saw people talk about it xD
<knightwise> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/pro-tip-install-kali-linux-tools-on-ubuntu-with-this-easy-script/
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Ice Cream Sandwich Day! ð
<MartijnVdS> On this day in 201X google released Android ICS?
<popey> and in the next release they're adding back in the bottom edge swipe to reveal apps
<MartijnVdS> they had that before?
<davmor2> JamesTait: got you covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1NXup3hDm8
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> morning bigcalm how is the car sale going?
<bigcalm> davmor2: it didn't sell. I've relisted to start on Thursday, last for 10 days, lower starting price and include a mobile number. Hopefully the extra time, including a weekend, will encourage people to arrange a viewing/test drive.
<davmor2> bigcalm: booo, but at least there is a plan \o/
<bigcalm> Yeah
<zmoylan-pi> correction... a cunning plan...
<bigcalm> Was a little disheartening. Got to keep pushing on
<MartijnVdS> a punning clan?
<popey> bigcalm: do you have a replacement vehichle?
<bigcalm> popey: my parents have lent me their spare car - 1.2 Corsa. It's a little different from a 2.0 turbo diesel estate... But I'm very grateful
<bigcalm> I need to sell the car now, while it's worth something. Will invest in a newer car in a few years
<popey> oh
<bigcalm> I've turned my finances around. Being astute with assets (cars and other things) is part of that
<zmoylan-pi> trying to sell a diesel when vw has just borked the entire diesel market...
<popey> i am about to scrap my car
<diddledan_> davmor2: I'd forgotten how awesome that song is (cry little sister)
<diddledan_> and davmor2 , a song from 1927?! wow you really do have eclectic taste (which is awesome!)
<diddledan_> wow, computers are terrible at not being leaky: https://blog.lukaszolejnik.com/battery-status-readout-as-a-privacy-risk/
<davmor2> diddledan_: there is very little music I don't like some of.  Mostly Really heavy metal where it just turns into a noise, and the modern ganster rap which just isn't as good as it was in the 80's and 90's
<foobarry> been listening to johnny flynn lately
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/duggan/status/664541126469226497
<davmor2> foobarry: not lately no but if you sing it I can play it :P
<zmoylan-pi> you can't beat rufus harley playing jazz on bagpipes... :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HYMwRtJHV8
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> you can drown out any other form of music with that on public transport... :-)
<davmor2> diddledan_: to give you an example as I kid I went mad for Vivaldi's Four Season as played by Nigel Kennedy just cause I liked the sound of it
<zmoylan-pi> sweatist violinist ever...
<zmoylan-pi> but belted out great sounds
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZZM3bgmXE4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg8Fa_EUQqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YI
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: "sweatist violinist"? you have strange tastes [maybe literally].  I had gone with "sweetest", personally :-D
<SuperEngineer> [but thanks for the laugh]
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: no that would be the 3 I posted :D
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: I agree Nigel Kennedy did some amazing things with a violin but he really did sweat a lot
<zmoylan-pi> i think the first few rows at his performances were splash zones...
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: You proved that how? .... no, please don't tell me!
<SuperEngineer> [on the bright side, those first few rows probably didn't need to visit the bar at half tim ;-)
<SuperEngineer> *time
 * SuperEngineer has just gone off the meal he was cooking for some "unknown" reason
<zmoylan-pi> just turn the crotch pot down to simmer till you get your appetite back... :-P
<SuperEngineer> ouch!
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you really should be toilet trained by now and not need a crotch pot :D
<SuperEngineer> boom!
 * SuperEngineer searches channel list for Ubuntu-Inuendo  ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> it's listed as nudge-nudge-wink-wink-ubuntu
 * daftykins is scarred
<SuperEngineer> :-D
<zmoylan-pi> then you shouldn't handle pineapples that way...
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: you have a wicked sense of humour... but imagining that...agreed!
 * SuperEngineer mashes potatoes for fish pie & tries to wipe that image frop
<SuperEngineer> from memory
<zmoylan-pi> thank you very much, don't try the veal till they burn down and rebuild the kitchen from scratch... :-P
<SuperEngineer> from pork scratchings?
<SuperEngineer> "A cocktail bar "forces" its customers to talk to each other by using an electronic shield to block mobile phone signals." [from BBC News feed].  Definitely #LIKE
<diddledan_> omg
<diddledan_> that's evil
<SuperEngineer> what, talking?
<SuperEngineer> nah!!!
<diddledan_> yeah.
<SuperEngineer> geeks don't "do" cocktails... city folk do - make 'em human & the rest of us might stand a chance of survival.
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> good point
<foobarry> what if the mobiles are used to tell their wifes where they are?
<zmoylan-pi> i have around 64gb of media on my devices so am covered for a few days away from the web... :-P
<foobarry> or they will be another 1hr
<diddledan_> geeks are more beer-drinkers if alcohol is involved. otherwise it's a staple diet of either coffee or cola
<foobarry> or...leaving now home soon x
<SuperEngineer> TALK you city bums - stop costing us billions, TALK!!!
<zmoylan-pi> and isn't it illegal to block phone signals in case there is an emergency?
<SuperEngineer> nope
<foobarry> what if you built the walls really thick?
<diddledan_> lol @ https://twitter.com/georgia_dow/status/760468240145547265
<SuperEngineer> thicker than the occup[ants of a cocktail bar?
<SuperEngineer> *occupants
<zmoylan-pi> every time someone brings up the idea of blocking signals in prisons the legal issues stop it here in ireland
<diddledan_> wow, that's thick
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: the question is would you use a phone that's been smuggled-in up someone's jacksee?
<zmoylan-pi> people seem to want their facebutt fix...
<zmoylan-pi> i do see the 'beat the boss' phones for sale all over dublin
<SuperEngineer> 'beat up the boss' more likely
<zmoylan-pi> an american company makes a metal detecting chair for checking inmates called boss... https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jan/07/metal-detecting-chair-at-goulburn-supermax-shows-prisoners-whos-boss
<diddledan_> talking of the boss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ19mLUs0OQ
<SuperEngineer> If only I could get my mits on a beat up the boss phone... I'd post it to him tommorrow! ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> and these phones have a very low metal content and can beat it
<diddledan_> that's the lead-up I wanted this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ-LWlmj3kQ
<diddledan_> love that movie
<diddledan_> love pretty much all pixar
<SuperEngineer> ICE HIM!
<SuperEngineer> & thanks, great fun
<SuperEngineer> ICE EM ALL!
<SuperEngineer> damn you diddledan ... now I'm watching them all!  ;-)
<ujjain> Can somebody recommend a reliable registrar for co uk domains? Price isn't the most important things, customer service is important.
<popey> gandi
<popey> https://www.gandi.net/
<ujjain> thanks popey
<popey> np
<DJones> ujjain: I use easily.co.uk never had any issues with them
<DJones> Ex-employer also used them for all their business websites
<DJones> Certainly not 123-reg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/02/123_reg_goes_titsup_again/ although they're saying is a ddos attempt now http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/02/123reg_suffers/
<ujjain> ah ok, no godaddy either
<DJones> From what I've read in the past, gandi has excellent reviews and customer loyalty
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/slashdot/status/760160177240760320
<DJones> Talk about stating the obvious http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36958126
<DJones> If ever there was truth behind the illuminati or majestick 12, Donald Trump explains  it all
 * Rixon has joined #conspiracytalk
<Rixon> whuuut
<daftykins> Rixon: no advertising thanks
<daftykins> ;)
<Rixon> it was a joke, not an advert
<Rixon> ;P
<Rixon> DJones: that's some top notch journalism right there, they didn't have any article to go with the headline that explains all so it's just "This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version."
<Rixon> I can't imagine any more detail they could update it with
<daftykins> sensational bit now, facts later
<Rixon> that's the formula for all of BBC isn't it?
<Rixon> ha
<Rixon> s/BBC/your favourite 'we hate immigrants' outlet
<Rixon> it's doing my head in all this front page racism
<Rixon> </rant></offtopic>
<DJones> Hey, be honest, at least I didn't link a Daily Fail article :)
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQyTpPu0gvc
<daftykins> haha that's a great find
<daftykins> hrmm Windows 10 build 1607 (anniversary edition) ISOs are live
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> who listens to Creative Commons music :) ?
<daftykins> seems the tumbleweed covered that one!
<diddledan_> mozilla are totes down wid de yoof: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/48.0/releasenotes/
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o
<diddledan_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sr5ch0r1lem23at/Screen%20Shot%202016-08-02%20at%2022.18.25.png?dl=0
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> top cat must be ancient by now
<diddledan_> someone's got a farty motorbike they're going about on in the distance
<diddledan_> or as I like to term people of that ilk: moron
<daftykins> oof indeedy, i saw some news story about someone taking out a woman on the pavement in Northampton on a 'dirt bike' and then zipping off to hide
<zmoylan-pi> moron is too strong a word... i prefer organ donor...
<diddledan_> haha
<diddledan_> I like that term
<zmoylan-pi> a+e departments have been known to call bikes donor cycles...
<diddledan_> the police do too
<diddledan_> my brother did a "caused an accident therefore needs advanced schooling on dangerous driving to not get points on licence" course where they explained the term organ donor to him
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> my personal best is going over front handlebars, sliding along the road for about 50 yards, taking the crossbar of the bike across the back of my head and using my face for a brake for the final few yards...
<zmoylan-pi> i left a dent in the crossbar using my skull.
<daftykins> D:
<zmoylan-pi> when the doctors x-rayed me they came to the conclusion that a helmet would have been wasted as my skull was too thick for them to detect damage
<zmoylan-pi> so i
<zmoylan-pi> so i've got that going for me... :-P
<daftykins> wow you Homer Simpson'd it
<daftykins> done 5 winders updates today :)
<zmoylan-pi> upgrade to windows 3.1? :-P
<daftykins> *shudder*
<daftykins> although i still double click the top left of windows to close them sometimes
<daftykins> https://twitter.com/XHNews/status/760473599019016192 <-- diddledan_ fancy taking a shortcut by "undertaking" this bus?
<diddledan_> daftykins: they actually made those?!
<zmoylan-pi> i can't wait till it encounters grandmas coffin stored in someones roof rack...
<daftykins> seems so, it even has a bow up front!
<diddledan_> I saw the visualisation viideo and decided they'd never do it
<daftykins> apparently it was going to have a glass floor, too
<zmoylan-pi> china is throwing money at everything and hopes some of it will make money down the road...
<zmoylan-pi> so they're building monorails, every type of motorway and bullet trains
<diddledan_> I wonder what happens when there's a lorry on the road in front
<zmoylan-pi> a race...
<diddledan_> or a car with a roofrack
<zmoylan-pi> having a roofrack will make one an enemy of the state...
<daftykins> that's mighty dangerous talk there, mr. dan of the diddlers
<diddledan_> am I being subversive?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> mercy me, solid rain since yesterday afternoon
<daftykins> kerrrrrazy
<daftykins> Â£98 for a 525GB Crucial MX300 SSD O_O
<diddledan_> :-o
<diddledan_> whart?!
<diddledan_> that's cheap as siliconchips
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> did i mention ordering some beginners soldering gear? :)
<diddledan_> I want to start a meet-up for computery types called "silly con"
<daftykins> i aim to take a crack at that board with the blown caps
<diddledan_> eep
<diddledan_> shall I warn anyone?
<daftykins> i think England's outside the blast radius
<m0nkey_> Ugh. Just had to take my A/C apart to clean out the brown sludgy gunk and drill drainage holes.
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> it was incontinent within its' own casing?!
<m0nkey_> it was disgusting
<m0nkey_> so i've found some plastic sheeting and made a makeshift canopy over it stop all the crap getting in
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBjoWMA5d84
<m0nkey_> Hmm.. Apparently Microsoft has given me the Windows 10 Anniversary update
<diddledan_> aww
<m0nkey_> ooh bash shell
<m0nkey_> ok, gotta reboot
<m0nkey_> back soon
<m0nkey_> ooh, linux subsystem :)
<m0nkey_> wtf.. it's ubuntu?!
<m0nkey_> i think i just had a crisis.
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: yes it's ubuntu. as in exactly the same binaries
<m0nkey_> vim, midnight commander, tmux..
<m0nkey_> me like
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: check /etc/apt/sources.list and then run an apt-get
<m0nkey_> hmm
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: EXACTLY the same binaries
<m0nkey_> weechat says not enough memory
<m0nkey_> holy crap, free command works
<m0nkey_> i may no longer need cygwin
<diddledan_> m0nkey_: your c: can be accessed via /mnt/c
<m0nkey_> yeah, i see that
<m0nkey_> maybe i don't have swap?
<m0nkey_> nope. i got swap
<m0nkey_> ah, weechat uses /proc/meminfo to figure out what's free.. seems like MS hard coded some values
<daftykins> :>
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> Behold ! For I have entered the realm of Linux via the Bash environment running onto my Windows 10 machine
<knightwise> All hail the aniversary update and lets praise it for allowing us to finally apt-get update ... IN WINDOWS :)
<knightwise> What can I say , i'm easily amused
<knightwise> although there does seem to be an issue with scrolling
<zmoylan-pi> if microsoft had of been truly up to their usual standards they should have gone with yum instead of apt just to be a little wrong... :-P
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> :)
<knightonWin> there where apparently some redraw issues with the SSH window I had
<knightonWin> Checking if this is the case too when i run the irssi nativelyt
<knightwise> Hmm.
<knightwise> so that terminal still needs some work :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> hey davmor2
<foobarry> knightwise: works in teh std win 10 yet? or the beta/preview thing
<knightwise> Stadnard
<knightwise> since the anniversary update
<foobarry> oh, time to boot the vsphereOS for the first time in months then
<foobarry> i only need it to deploy ovfs in vmware
<SuperEngineer> Does anybody here play Goat Simulator [via Steam] on their Ubuntu pc?  If so, tried it lately?  Does it still work?
<foobarry> i get this every time i boot windows after running linux http://imgur.com/a/8i5Ro
<foobarry> then windows works the 2nd time
<foobarry> knightwise: still not there on my copy
<foobarry> looking for "windows subsystem for linux"
<foobarry> hmm 1511 build 10586
<foobarry> looks like the old windows update restart update restart repeat
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: "linux subsystem for windows" perhaps?
<foobarry> don't think i have the correct build number yet
<knightwise> SuperEngineer: thats the one
<knightwise> You have to switch to developer mode first
<foobarry> done that
<knightwise> then add the linux subsystem for windows
<foobarry> not an option
<foobarry> in the list of windows features
<knightwise> http://www.howtogeek.com/249966/how-to-install-and-use-the-linux-bash-shell-on-windows-10/
<knightwise> Then you dontg have the anniversary update yet
<SuperEngineer> Have you tried turning it off & back on again?  :-D
<foobarry> yep
<SuperEngineer> well Sir, if you repeat the update/restart process another 280 times, you should then see it"  :-D
<foobarry> i think so
<foobarry> sigh it wants 20GB free space
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Watermelon Day! ð ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: think this covers it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dAy9u0_9nM
<SuperMatt> It's also new comic book day, but that's every wednesday
<knightwise> foobarry: thats a lot just for the upgrade
<foobarry> its cooking my fans too
<foobarry> and is a lie
<foobarry> anniversary update totally hosed my grub
<SuperMatt> of course
<foobarry> utterly shagged
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/655011/windows-10-upgrade-kills-grub-and-boot-repair-doesnt-help
<foobarry> its deleted my ubuntu partitions
<knightwise> foobarry: gaah
<knightwise> annoying
<foobarry> lost it all
<foobarry> could not recreate the partition
<davmor2> foobarry: there was a post by seb128 I think basically saying Oh come on Windows Devs I can't believe you have never come across a dual booting system
<foobarry> bit late now :(
<foobarry> totally didn't expect a windows update to trash the system when the win10 upgrade didnt
<foobarry> never again. ever
<foobarry> VM only from now on for windows
<davmor2> foobarry: meh I have it on a separate box for testing only so I don't care :)
<knightwise> foobarry: agree
<knightwise> big win updates tend to love fracking around with the mbr
 * knightwise hasnt dualbooted in years
<knightwise> why "choose" when your machine has enough juice to run it all
<foobarry> because NAT faffing
<knightwise> foobarry: that i concur
<knightwise> when i want to do somethink like wifi sniffing and stuff , there are issues because its not running on bare metal
 * knightwise needs to get a netbook for that 
<knightwise> foobarry: but why nat , why not just bridge the adapters ?
<foobarry> either way. a faff
<foobarry> at least it was when i tried last
<foobarry> i really don't like virtualbox either
<knightwise> i'm playing around with some of the Kali tools and have noticed that some things dont work because i run them in a vm
<foobarry> trying testdisk and then photorec as last resort
<popey> erk
<popey> that's unfortunate
<popey> foobarry: were they all on one disk, partitions?
<popey> I keep windows and ubuntu on separate disks, wonder if I am safe from this issue
<foobarry> this is a laptop SSD
<foobarry> really was not expected
<popey> ah
<popey> i did point out to seb128 that we have had a bug where ubuntu nukes the windows partition. maybe this was payback ã
<foobarry> :'(
<foobarry> running photorec
<foobarry> this all started because i wanted bash on windows
<foobarry> but is gonna bite all dual booters i expect
<foobarry> i only ran the anniv update, thats it
<knightwise> foobarry: looks like it treats it as a complete new version of windows
<knightwise> just got asked if I wanted to delete the "previous version" of windows to free up space
<popey> directhex: ^
<foobarry> knightwise: didn't ask me that
<foobarry> but glad u got the option:D
<knightwise> previous version was 21 gig
 * knightwise only has a 128 gig ssd
 * brmbrmcar only has a 9 gig ssd
<knightwise> brmbrmcar: thats tight
<popey> foobarry: any luck with photorec?
<foobarry> the screensaver went on the livecd and i can't ctrl-alt-f1 but the disk is going
<foobarry> so i will leave it a few hrs
<foobarry> what a disaster
<foobarry> even resetting the partition in fdisk didn't work.
<foobarry> somehow it trashed it totally
<foobarry> and no partition info found
<foobarry> listening to this song to cheer me up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4QQ7HYYdWw
<knightwise> foobarry: crud man :'
<diddledan_> nice tune tho
<popey> hah, not the most cheery thing I've heard today
<foobarry> yet still evocative of a certain mood
<SuperEngineer> Yahoo account list hacked.  If [like me] you have a spam dump mail a/c with them - change password now.
<foobarry> hmm maybe a flickr account
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: Yawho?
<diddledan_> yeah I need to change my password, and enable 2fa
<SuperEngineer> agreed
<diddledan_> I'm getting better at turning-on 2fa in places
<zmoylan-pi> didn't a security organisation just poo poo 2fa using sms recently?
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: err, NIST. the National Institute of Science and Technology
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you can't get much bigger than NIST
<diddledan_> it's a really big deal over the pond IIRC
<davmor2> diddledan_: yes you can it's easy watch NISTXL
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> apparently it's common in the states for banks to assume SMS is secure enough to send authentication codes via
<davmor2> diddledan_: add more X's and it gets bigger still :P
<diddledan_> diddledan_XXXL <-- that's me
<diddledan_> how do you pronounce the name "nguyen"?
<foobarry> no google 2fa though :(
<foobarry> wing
<foobarry> diddledan_: allegedly
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was pronounced noy-gu-nn
<foobarry> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Nguyen_%28northern_dialect%29.ogg
<diddledan_> so. gwen?
<SuperEngineer> I have 2Fa on all my accounts.  factor 1.. type password, factor 2... darn, password too strong for me to get right when inputting ;-)
<diddledan_> lol
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: I have 4 factor on some of my accounts, your 2 plus getting it wrong again getting locked out of my account, contacting them for an unblock creating a new password that turns out to be the old password and crying in the corner
<SuperEngineer> rofl
<foobarry> recovered 121000 files with photorec
<foobarry> don't think i'll bother
<diddledan_> foobarry: ouch
<diddledan_> foobarry: time to ditch windows for good? :-p
<foobarry> yes, VM only for now. i only need it to deploy .ova files in vmware
<popey> foobarry: so you need to nuke and re-install?
<popey> waste of a day :(
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> feel sad today, but liberated tomorrow from dual boot i guess
 * SuperEngineer hugs XP pc hidden in corner
<SuperEngineer> [and seldom used]
<foobarry> testing new elementary beta 2 and the touchpad is like i have parkinsons
<zmoylan-pi> apart from being part of botnet of course... :-)
<foobarry> but the nipple mouse is stable :S
<SuperEngineer> ... seems the only time I start my XP machine [with a dual boot on it] is to update Ubuntu Mate... you don't always know when that big hardware fail is around the corner - & it keeps my smug smile smug ;-)
<diddledan_> don't go to blackhat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw0q3rhB7iQ
<foobarry> seems to be bug 1272624
<lubotu3> bug 1272624 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Dell Latitude E7440] 14.04 Touchpad causing mouse pointer to spuriously jump around screen" [Medium,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272624
<diddledan_> http://xkcd.com/1105/
<daftykins> diddledan_: did i share my latest Hitman escapade? ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVbt4IVkcNY
<diddledan_> more disappearing folk?
<daftykins> nope! normal play this time
<brmbrmcar> knightwise: Yeah, it's a struggle...
<daftykins> https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4vw21h/massive_psa_do_not_download_classic_shell_read/
<daftykins> ooooh dear
<DJones> Saw that earlier, think its been sorted out now
<daftykins> could be, nasty one though
<DJones> Was also supposed to be affecting audacity
<daftykins> hmm, i sent a local trade website seller a list of questions and when he finally replied, he ignored them all - then i asked again and he replied to half
<daftykins> email can be so rubbish
<Seeker`> I'm not sure that's emails fault.
<popey> people can be so rubbish
 * popey wanders off to shoot some of them in Rust
<daftykins> Seeker`: as a medium, it's legitimate to refer to the common failings of people making use of it
<daftykins> but sure if you really want to slice the hairs some more, the people at the other end...
<daftykins> ali1234: i found you in the wild! and right you are - http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Crucial-SSDs/SSDs-and-Secure-Erase/ta-p/112580
<daftykins> haven't been experiencing some similar woes with MX100s have you?
<diddledan_> daftykins: ali1234: that crucial thread is weird. I mean what's wrong with blkdiscard or fstrim?
<ali1234> windows?
<diddledan_> obviously those are loonicks commands but there must be equivalents
<ali1234> the windows equivalent is a 500mb java app that installs it's own webserver and then you connect to it through your browser
<diddledan_> err
<diddledan_> wat?
<diddledan_> that's nucking futs
<ali1234> it's called micro storage executive
<ali1234> *micron
<diddledan_> I believe this sums that crazyness up: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/173/575/25810.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> some one took the duck race one step too far...
<diddledan_> I read the word "wat" and imagine rubber-ducky-squeek making the noise of the word
<ali1234> it gets better. MSE works on linux too
<ali1234> crucial rebrands it
<ali1234> there's also a command line version of MSE for linux
<daftykins> :)
<ali1234> but crucial do not rebrand that one
<ali1234> but it works fine anyway
<zmoylan-pi> that's why is a java app i suppose
<daftykins> well i've been browsing around because there's a bug in the MX100 firmware they're not going to fix
<ali1234> yeah my MX100 died
<ali1234> that's why i was on there
<daftykins> anyone in warranty they're just giving an MX200 instead, won't work on it
<ali1234> yep same
<daftykins> the tech support guy was chatting rubbish to me today claiming the 200 is all better and superior, but it's rubbish too!
<daftykins> very poor
<ali1234> it's pretty much exactly the same
<ali1234> what's the bug?
<daftykins> anywho i found my issues on Windows were fixed by enabling hot plug on the port, but that's not on every system
<ali1234> when mine died there wasn't a known unfixed bug
<ali1234> oh the hot plug thing
<daftykins> oh it's just my assumption really, there's no 'proof'
<ali1234> mine totally died
<ali1234> like first it went read only
<ali1234> then it wouldn't even read
<daftykins> you can get drive disappearances that can be rectified with a few power cycles i think
<ali1234> i tried all that
<daftykins> i'll type it up in a mo anywho, just made food :)
<ali1234> i read allllllll the things
<ali1234> nothing worked, it was totally dead jim
<ali1234> so i RMA'd it
<daftykins> nasty
<daftykins> MX200 been working ok?
<ali1234> not used it yet
<ali1234> i have two drives: my current install and my previous install
<ali1234> the one that died was my previous install
<ali1234> so next time i do a fresh install it will go on the MX200
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed it lasts...
<daftykins> so depending upon AHCI driver under Windows 10, the drive would either cause BSODs if it were the OS drive - or an entire freeze of the OS (mouse pointer still moving) if it were a slave drive
<daftykins> *or* it would disappear :D
<daftykins> since i turned hot plug on on that port though, it's been fine
<ali1234> yeah i read about that one
<ali1234> i already had hotplug turned on
<daftykins> nah yours sounds a totally separate issue for sure, mines SMART data is pretty much ok
<ali1234> and the drive never actually disappeared. it just wouldn't respond - at all - to any ATA commands that involve reading the disk
<daftykins> mmm could be what mine would get into during the freezes
<daftykins> the freeze was with the iastor MS provided driver, disappearance was with intel's AHCI driver
<daftykins> before i got onto playing with drivers and hotplug i was disabling HIPM and DIPM via registry edits in Windows
<daftykins> that might have prolonged the times before incident but it still hung around
<daftykins> does seem Crucial want to just misdirect folk experiencing it though
<daftykins> i've got an RMA setup but i called in saying i wasn't happy getting a 500GB drive to replace a 512GB :D "sorry sir but we're not giving MX300s out right now"
<ali1234> you can change the overprovisioning if you want :)
<ali1234> that's the only difference afaik
<daftykins> he reckoned the MX300 525GB isn't showing up yet
<daftykins> well the MX200 has a small SLC cache it uses to make writes appear faster before transferring them later during idle time
<daftykins> s/them/the newly written data/
<daftykins> they diddled the drive specs!
<diddledan_> I had nothing to do with it!
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> a likely story
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-04
<mapps> morning
<knightwise> goor moning mapps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Chocolate Chip Cookie Day! ð  ðª
<zmoylan-pi> disaster... no choc chip cookies in the house... were was the 2 week build up at local supermarkets like they have for valentines day?!
<foobarry> anyone know how to get the package containing synclient?
<foobarry> package xserver-xorg-input-synaptics is not availabel but is referred by another package
<popey> foobarry: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics exists here
<foobarry> thx, i was on livecd, so had issue. turns out my device isn't synaptic
<foobarry> having terrible issues with my touchpad
<foobarry> how would i find out the driver version being used by a touchpad?
<zmoylan-pi> ? http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/41817/linux-how-to-find-the-device-driver-used-for-a-device
<foobarry> managed to disable my keyboard \o/
<foobarry> fixed the jittery mouse issue in doing so. now need to decide what i want the most
<knightwise> morning
<bittin> morning
<popey> hello bittin
<bittin> running Ubuntu on a friends chromebook here watching a bit of Assembly
<zmoylan-pi> it does seem the only way to replace my now ancient netbook is to run ubuntu on a chromebook...
<diddledan__> this is a fun one: http://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/04/25/debugging-memory-corruption-who-the-hell-writes-2-into-my-stack-2/
<popey> i understand a small amount of that
<popey> "Somebody had been touching my sentinelâs privates â and it definitely wasnât a friend. " made me chuckle
<diddledan__> :-p
<diddledan__> popey, I think you've been spending too much time listening to my innuendo
<zmoylan-pi> if that's what you kids call it these days... :-P
<diddledan__> love space-hair! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-S4NxNYnoU
<zmoylan-pi> closest thing to a tricorder yet when you can glance at female astronaut hair for quick check of air tight integrity... :-P
<diddledan__> is it a limitation of X that ubuntu can't scale each screen's window-contents separately? if I set scale to screen with largest controls then everything is huge on my 72dpi screens and if I set to scale to the smallest controls then everything is too tiny on my retina screen
<diddledan__> where 72dpi is a synonym for "normal"
<ali1234> no, that is not a limitation of X
<ali1234> there are multiple different ways ubuntu could do that
<diddledan__> still at least it's better than before when nothing was scaled at all
<diddledan__> this is incremental progress, which is good
<diddledan__> I prefer incremental development to revolution
<foobarry> launchpad having a bit of a wobble
<foobarry> timeouts on performing actions
<diddledan__> foobarry, perhaps the americans got their measurements wrong again and the rocket is veering offcourse (launchpad)
<foobarry> "Timeout error, please try again in a few minutes."
<foobarry> cannot save a bug as a dupe
<diddledan__> perhaps someone needs to file a bug about launchpad, on launchpad
<daftykins> i think that would tear a hole in all that we know
<diddledan__> oh, yeah, launchpad is broken so you can't file a bug about launchpad on launchpad because launchpad is down
<diddledan__> daftykins, like God disproving his own existence in a puff of logic?
<daftykins> whom? ;)
<foobarry> fixed now. i knew going for a poo fwould fix it
<daftykins> but have you calculated how much you're being paid for that strategy?
<diddledan__> I see omgubuntu claiming that dekko will be snapped soon. I wonder how soon that soon is?
<DJones> foobarry: popey: Just looking at todays updates for Ubuntu, there is an update to "Secure Boot chain-loading bootloader (Microsoft signed binary)" I wonder if that is to deal with the problem you had yesterday
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan__> what problem was that?
<DJones> 11:45 < foobarry> anniversary update totally hosed my grub
<diddledan__> I thought that was completely wiping non-windows partitions from the gpt/mbr
<DJones> I think popey will know more about the issue, he tweeted something about it
<diddledan__> popey tweeted about linux partitions disappearing, as I said
<DJones> Yeah, that was the one
<DJones> I'm wondering if that update is the fix for it
<diddledan__> grub cannot work if there's no partition for it's files
<diddledan__> I fail to see how a grub update can fix a problem of the parition being not there
<daftykins> a secure boot update would have nothing to do with a legacy bootloader getting hosed
<daftykins> you'd think...
<diddledan__> the issue wasn't anything to do with the bootloader. the partitions were physically gone
<daftykins> wat
<diddledan__> the windows anniversary updater removed any linux partitions
<daftykins> seems dubious
<diddledan__> no linux partitions, means nothing for grub to read it's config from
<diddledan__> hence hosed grub
<daftykins> yeah i kinda know how it works
<daftykins> :P
<diddledan__> is an office suite made of sugar and tastiness?
<diddledan__> I like sweets
<daftykins> 365 flavours
<daftykins> so i hear
<daftykins> i wonder what config needs to be present to give it a trial run, it'd be interesting to see if i can replicate it
<DJones> daftykins: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/08/03/1614223/windows-10-anniversary-update-borks-dual-boot-partitions  Don't know if that gives you any extra info
<diddledan__> I don't understand slashdot
<diddledan__> what's the point of posting a verbatim copy of someone else's article?
<daftykins> well they filtered the pathetic Microsoft hatred from omgubuntu, so there's that
<diddledan__> more to the point, why DJones did you link the slashdot and not the original? :-p
<DJones> diddledan__: That was the first link that came up
<DJones> Just looking at the comments from users on omgubuntu
<DJones> Looks like most cases it works ok, just a small minority that have issues, not limited to Ubuntu, I see mentions of archlinux as well
<daftykins> i have a sneaking suspicion the people suffering would have installed Windows second
<diddledan__> daftykins, ask foobarry
<DJones> And looking at other links, its not limited to linux partitions, seems like its also wiping ntfs partitions as well
<DJones> Thats reading through http://windowsreport.com/partition-disappears-windows-10-anniversary-update/
<knightwise> eeeevnin
<diddledan__> allo
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> how's it going, knightwise ?
 * DJones welcome knightwise 
<ali1234> why is it so hard to just leave the partition table alone?
<diddledan__> ali1234, yeah it's really sucky that windows is STILL making a mess of multi-boot scenarios
<ali1234> this is why i will only ever run windows in a VM
<daftykins> seen plenty of drama in #ubuntu - not like Linux is immune to woes
<daftykins> only cool to slate MS though i guess
<diddledan__> daftykins, of course. it's all MS' fault.
<ali1234> i can't remember the last time linux had a data loss bug
<diddledan__> daftykins, just like shauno should feel bad for being an apple fanboy :-p
<ali1234> probably btrfs
<diddledan__> ali1234, with btrfs, any data loss has been with people that are running it before it's been deemed stable
<daftykins> diddledan__: :D
<ali1234> also completely unrealistic to claim that people only complain about MS
<diddledan__> systemd
<diddledan__> the borg of software
<ali1234> yeah. and gnome 3, and unity, and wayland
<daftykins> i don't believe that's what i said
 * diddledan__ borgs daftykins 
<diddledan__> /nick diddlekins
<daftykins> O_@
 * daftykins is now known as diddlekins
<diddledan__> or maybe daftydan?
<Laney> the horror
<Laney> radio 4 just played some of the pips at 6pm
<Laney> as well as the bongs
<Laney> it probably means there's a nuclear attack going on
<zmoylan-pi> somewhere the british sub commanders are looking up their emergency orders...
<daftykins> and cracking out the floppies
<zmoylan-pi> +++evacuate british subjects from rhodesia+++ this will be difficult for a number of reasons... :-P
<diddledan__> zmoylan-pi, didn't Boris wonder where that place was?
<zmoylan-pi> some of boris's teachers probably were born there...
<DJones> diddledan__: I doubt Boris even knows where the Isle of Wight, Falklands, Guernsey, Jersey, Isle of Man are
<DJones> Or Ascension Island
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: defending the Channel Islands will also be difficult, so we won't worry about that bit ;)
<diddledan__> daftykins, we'll just let you get occupied again
<daftykins> yep
<popey> Laney: i flinched too
<daftykins> and start thinking about giving us back to France
<daftykins> sacrÃ© bleu
<zmoylan-pi> at least you can then ignore talks about brexit... :-P
 * DJones puts daftykins on ebay
<diddledan__> popey, Laney, was it like: pip pip booooooong?
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: we could to begin with - and did
<zmoylan-pi> tomorrow it'll be *pip* *pip* *pip* *cuckoo* just to shake things up
<diddledan__> lol
<daftykins> dee-da-dee
<ali1234> so kodi-pvr-mythtv in ubuntu doesn't work with the version of mythtv in ubuntu, which is the current stable release
<ali1234> the source package claims to be taken from a git repository which doesn't contain the source code
<ali1234> and as far as i can tell the claimed version number doesn't exist
<daftykins> ali1234: how about the PVR addons from the kodi repo?
<daftykins> assuming you don't have it added
<ali1234> there aren't any pvr addons in the kodi repo
<ali1234> the category straight up doesn't exist
<ali1234> there is a video add on called mythbox which is several years out of date
<daftykins> hmm surprising
<ali1234> there is a ppa which has a newer version of the pvr plugin
<ali1234> but when i install it, it just says "the add-on could not be loaded"
<daftykins> and the log says?
<ali1234> 23:45:47 T:140576512505600   ERROR: ADDON: Could not locate pvr.mythtv.so
<daftykins> wonder if you can pinch it from the other package
<ali1234> no need, the ppa installs it
<ali1234> /usr/lib/kodi/addons/pvr.mythtv/pvr.mythtv.so
<ali1234> kodi just can't find it because apparently it is brain damaged
<daftykins> maybe looking in the wrong place
<daftykins> how about throwing it in ~/.kodi/...blah blah
<ali1234> oh i see the problem
<ali1234> it is supposed to be at /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/kodi/addons/pvr.mythtv/pvr.mythtv.so
<ali1234> i will just make a symlink
<daftykins> so was this 16.04, where the stable mythtv was updated and kodi-pvr-mythtv wasn't? just to work out where it's stemming from
<ali1234> it still doesn't work
<ali1234> yes it is 16.04
<ali1234> mythtv 0.28
<ali1234> pvr.mythtv 2.8.0 and 2.8.4 (ppa)
<ali1234> oh there's another version bump in 2.8.5
<ali1234> i guess i will just build the package myself then
<daftykins> https://packages.debian.org/stretch/kodi-pvr-mythtv why are they so different o0
<ali1234> there's found versions of kodi
<ali1234> and so there's four versions of the plugin maintained in parallel
<ali1234> 1.x is for helix, 2.x is for isengard, 3.x is for jarvis, 4.x is for the dev release
<daftykins> ah har
<ali1234> hey look at that it finally works
<daftykins> often get folks coming in asking where the PVR addons are, seems to be a mess
<daftykins> glad i don't touch liveTV setups
<ali1234> livetv is literally the only bit i want
<ali1234> i might just make my own
<ali1234> this was still easier than getting mythtv-frontend to work
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-05
<diddledan__> doobleydoo
<diddledan__> in response to the call-to-arms for help with the "loco team portal" I've been messing with python and django \o/
<diddledan__> in other news, wth am I doing awake at 5am?!
<mapps> hi
<mapps> back from work yay
<diddledan__> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> It's Out!!! See - http://www.ubuntu.com/download
<diddledan__> :-p
<knightwise> mornig n
<knightwise> lubotu3: what is out ?
<lubotu3> I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<knightwise> Ubuntu ?
<popey> grifferz: ugh. my nan had two falls and ended up having both hips replaced. took some work to convince her to move to sheltered accomodation. had to sell her house to fund it.wat
<popey> erk
<popey> wrong channel :)
<knightwise> no worriez popey . sorry o hear that
<knightwise> My mum is in a home too
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday and happy International Beer Day! ð ðº
<davmor2> JamesTait: think this covers it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8
<davmor2> JamesTait: by the way if you haven't played the bards tale you need too it is hilarious :D
<JamesTait> I used to play The Bard's Tale on my Atari ST 20-odd years ago. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: yeah they did an update for xbox it is absolutely priceless :D
<JamesTait> That's a proper earworm as well!
<brobostigon> anyone recognise the following error when running apt-get update, http://paste.debian.net/787023/
<davmor2> JamesTait: beer beer beer no idea what you mean tiddly beer beer beer
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdgE9WJf-cA
<davmor2> JamesTait: but shouldn't all drinking songs be earworms :)
<zmoylan-pi> drinking songs drown earworms when you quaff... :-)
<foobarry> DJones: don't think i had secure boot enabled
<foobarry> in fact, pretty sure i didn't
<davmor2> JamesTait: why can I still hear you singing beer beer beer tiddly beer beer beer ;)
<davmor2> also the bards tale is available on Linux through steam \o/
<foobarry> anyone downloaded an album from google play music?
<foobarry> track numbers are lost a la https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/play/wdjlKSQKDBw
<foobarry> seems completely iuseles
<DJones> foobarry: Yes, last week, no problemswith the track numbers
<DJones> They show up in easytag, but not in the filenames
<foobarry> it doesn't even download to a Artist folder
<foobarry> just dumps it in Musc/
<foobarry> Music folder
<DJones> Yeah, I noticed that, just dumps it to whichever folder you select
<foobarry> if i want to copy the songs to mp3 CD for the car, i have to manually add track numbers to get the album order then?
<DJones> Yes I had to do the same, I  think its more because google play doesn't put the track numbers in the file name, they are shown if you use easytag to check the info
<foobarry> did you rename with easytag?
<DJones> I used k3b to create a cd, maybe other apps will read the track number from the mp3 info
<foobarry> not my car though..:(
<DJones> No I didn't, it was only one cd, so I just added the files in the correct oreder
<foobarry> its a weak implementation
<foobarry> googlel should do better
<DJones> Probably more down to the cd burning apps, opening the folder in clementime, the track numbers are listed, they probably need to read the mp3 info,  but google should put the track numbers in the file names as well
<foobarry> even worse, this album had 2 discs
<foobarry> it just munged them together
<foobarry> it has CD1/2 but easytag can't cope
<foobarry> DJones: can easytag rename the files?
<foobarry> yes, the scanner mode. got it
<DJones> yes it can
<foobarry> done it thanks
<foobarry> never used a id tagger with intuitive UI...
<DJones> easytag is quite useful for things like that
<foobarry> still not intuitive..
<foobarry> think i tried picard before but they all have issues
<diplo> We've had this discussion before I believe but I use mp3tag.de and CDEX to rip cd's
<diplo> But windows programs that run under wine ( mp3tag defo does )
<diplo> All linux apps lacked in a few places imo
<foobarry> the tagging apps are functional but all come from the same root of the ugly tree
<aptanet> anyone know what is happening with syncing passwords between Linux and Samba now the libpam-smbpasswd package has gone?
<aptanet> Google is just bringing up ways to do it by installing the package, which isn't that helpful
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Btrfs-RAID-56-Is-Bad
<psicobra> hi all im hoping some one can help me setup ssl-tls on vsftp please
<psicobra> first time setting up an ftp server i have it working and can logon but i read ftp transmits password unsecurly
<psicobra> unsecurely
<psicobra> i have tried reading the ubuntu docs but i got lost
<ali1234> lol, what was i saying yesterday about btrfs?
<diddledan__> ali1234, I'm impressed at it being a pretty damning bug that does such a huge amount of damage that wasn't picked-up before
<MartijnVdS> especially with people like popey who yank out disks just to prove it works :P
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> I miss doing that with my 14 disk array to watch the lights flicker as it rebuilt
<popey> heh
<diddledan__> quiet in here tonight
<diddledan__> who's gonna watch the olympits ceremony?
 * brobostigon is watching jeeves and wooster, :)
<diddledan__> hmm, now that's a question. is the ceremony gonna be on bbc1 or bbc olympics?
<diddledan__> (the olympics chan is 114 for hd)
<brobostigon> no idea.
<diddledan__> the broadcast starts at 23:35 according to bbc.co.uk
<m0nkey_> there's an Olympics?
<Newman101> Yes. I was surprised that the Olympics started.
<diddledan__> there is
<diddledan__> the sound on the bbc broadcast of the opening ceremony is terrible
<m0nkey_> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/05/sports/olympics/the-100-meter-dash-one-race-every-medalist-ever.html?_r=1&
<m0nkey_> old article, but its interesting
<ali1234> is hd on freeview?
<ali1234> do i have to retune my mythtv? please say i dont...
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> it's on 601 (red button 1)
<ali1234> that that's SD. it's on BBC 1 HD though
<diddledan__> freeview bbc1hd is 101
<ali1234> yeah i don't have any 114 though
<ali1234> this lightshow is in a stadium right? so it looks rubbish for 75% of the people there
<daftykins> i'd be refusing to watch for how much of a joke Brazil is
<diddledan__> ali1234, I was thinking that. the people around the other side must be wondering what is happening with the perspective being all wonky
<ali1234> oi mate yer planes backwards
<diddledan__> I can't hear any of the music at all
<ali1234> um wat
<ali1234> thats cgi right
<ali1234> right?
<diddledan__> yes, cgi
 * daftykins blinks
<daftykins> you really find this rubish interesting?
<ali1234> i just enjoy being snarky
<diddledan__> I'm more curious if anyone there is going to finally fix the audio
<ali1234> surely you've figured that out by now?
<diddledan__> bets on whether she's gonna trip, then
<daftykins> i'm not even following the topic i just saw 'olympics' and thought wtf is wrong with you?
 * daftykins dropped a peanut
<daftykins> it's ok i got it!
<diddledan__> seriously, fix the damn audio!
<diddledan__> it's impossible to listen to
<ali1234> diddledan__: 601 has just the music, no commentary
<ali1234> but its SD
<diddledan__> it's not the commentary that's the problem
<ali1234> it has a proper audio feed, not "whatever the commentators mic picks up"
<ali1234> it sounds fine to me anyway
<Newman101> daftykins: widespread corruption, poverty, etc. and the Brazilian government is wasting money on bread and circuses. Sounds pretty odious indeed.
<diddledan__> widespread corruption? are we talking abuot btrfs again?
<ali1234> hey oh
<daftykins> who in the hell are you o0
<diddledan__> o/ I'm me
<diddledan__> :p
<ali1234> who's on first
<daftykins> that's what i'd feared
<ali1234> ugh the compression artifacts
<ali1234> tinsel does not compress well
<diddledan__> my eyes
<diddledan__> I think I'm going into a seizure
<ali1234> lets see if i can retune and find a better stream
<daftykins> whilst you have issues, just think of how blissfully unaware i am at home unwrapping a white magnum ice cream
<diddledan__> :-o
<ali1234> hmm... the bbc website actually has a higher quality stream than 601
<diddledan__> I'm still excited about this star: http://gizmodo.com/the-so-called-alien-megastructure-just-got-even-more-my-1784883811
<diddledan__> that article is from earlier today
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-06
<daftykins> i'm debating playing drunk Hitman and streaming it
<diddledan> drunk gaming. that doesn't sound like it's gonna end well
<daftykins> but it's a game involving murder, so when does it? :)
<daftykins> diddledan_: https://i.imgur.com/1ObDTyr.gifv
<daftykins> so many diddle clones
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-08-07
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<christel> good morning brobostigon :)
<christel> are you well?
<brobostigon> good morning christel :), i could be better, my partner has been in hospital ill for the last month, and you?
<christel> auchies, i am sorry to hear she is still not well enough to come out, must be stressful for you both -- especially as you no doubt want to share the joys of pregnancy together
<christel> i am not too shabby, tired but well :)
<brobostigon> yes, its very worrying.
<brobostigon> :)
<christel> i can imagine! is she holding up ok?
<brobostigon> it probably will be a while untill her bipolar settles down and she is well enough to come out, last time she was unwell she was in for about 5 months. when i spoke to her doctors earlier this week, she was bouncing up and down like a yoyo.
 * christel nods
<christel> i guess it is difficult for them to get the medication right while she is also having all the hormonal effects of pregnancy messing all the chemical stuff up
<brobostigon> hopefully once her hormones settle down, that will help, then just a task of getitng her bipolar striaghtend out.
<brobostigon> yes, and there are certain medications they cant use while she is pregnant.
<christel> *nod*
<SuperEngineer> Recipe: 1/ stuff a couple of onions and garlic up a [dead] chicken's jacksie.
<SuperEngineer> "/ Sprinkle with salt, ground pepper.  Smother with home grown thyme.
<SuperEngineer> Method: cook the darn thing before eating!
<SuperEngineer> [you know... much like a development life cycle]
<zmoylan-pi> recipie 0:take a dead chicken and apply fire...
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - rather like an phone app developer's method, isn't it?
<zmoylan-pi> i thought that was more 1) bang rocks together and make fire.... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> or would that better describe assembly programming...
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: that made I laugh!!!
<zmoylan-pi> it was a joke in my old place that some languages were so elementary that to get anything done in them you had to build from the ground up, start building basic functions, put together a few libraries.  could take ages.  so it became. bang rocks together and make fire.
<zmoylan-pi> the current popular term is yak shaving i suppose
<SuperEngineer> :-)
<DJones> Hmmh, is it a bad sign when you get up after a night out and your wife says "where did I take my clothes off last night"
<MartijnVdS> depends on the answer to that question I think
<DJones> Thankfully it was at home and she wasn't drunk, just couldn't remember
<DJones> Could have been embarasing if she'd done it earlier since her Dad was bring us home
<zmoylan-pi> it's a good night if you need to start fishing them off the ceiling fan... :-P
<daftykins> DJones: sounds like you had a youthful re-enactment ;)
<daftykins> oof poor French gymnast chap with the broken leg on landing
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> don't try that at home
<daftykins> i couldn't, the horse won't stand still
<diddledan> good news everyone! I've signed you all up to the Donald Trump mailing list.
<diddledan> no, wait, I mean my RAMs are coming back tomorrow!
 * diddledan misses working on "teh beast"
<diddledan> how many people do call their desktop a variant of "beast" I wonder
<Nokaji> ubuntu offered me an upgrade (finally) to v16.04 (was 14.04) - all seems well and functioning smoothly except Nautilus; when I open a Nautilus window w/ a tab or more, the window auto closes, typically within minutes. Actually, seems it is called "Files 3.14.3" i this version, maybe that is a clue.
<diddledan> daftykins: first thing I'm gonna do when I get the ram replacement is to run a proper memtest rather than just hoping
<diddledan> FUDGE
<diddledan> err caps
<diddledan> just spend an hour or so messing with hardware, getting my finger all cut to shreds, and I power-up the machine to find I used the wrong mobo - doesn't support ECC for my memory where the other board does. I don't know if I can be bothered yanking it all out again now
<zmoylan-pi> liquorice
<diddledan> in fact the sun was still visible when I started so it's been several hours
<zmoylan-pi> and you can't blame anyone but yourself...
<diddledan> I could blame God
<diddledan> he should have warned me
<zmoylan-pi> might as well blame santa and the tooth fairy...
<diddledan> I feel this relationship with $deity is a tag unfairly one-sided
<diddledan> tad*
<zmoylan-pi> that's why you deal with thor... it's hit by lightning or it isn't...
<diddledan> I like thor
<zmoylan-pi> simple binary god
<diddledan> chris hemsworth is good looking even to a straight man
<diddledan> wonder when the next season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is on
<diddledan> september 20 in the US. day-after for us?
<daftykins> diddledan: answer: a horrifying number for 'best' variants :P also yep can't concur more on a full memtest pass (or 2) before considering it good
#ubuntu-uk 2017-07-31
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon :) good weekend?
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo, yes wasnt bad, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: yeah not bad thanks :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diddledan> pmsl
<diddledan> I just read this email subject from 9am today: "Nosefart denial of service vulnerability"
<diddledan> apparently Nosefart is a NES sound file player
<diddledan> "Nosefart is NES Music Player.Nosefart plays NSF (Nintendo Entertainment System Sound Format) files so you can listen to those old tunes without actually having to play through the games."
<MooDoo> lol
<diddledan> that is the best name ever
<zmoylan-pi> some of the 8bit music and 16bit music is great to program to.
 * diddledan plays zmoylan-pi some popcorn
 * zmoylan-pi hums along to the boo boo boo 60s classic
<diplo> Afternoon all
<diddledan> anyone got a clue why nautilus is unable to see my freenas since I upped the minimum protocol version from CORE to SMB2?
<diddledan> I did the protocol upping in freenas gui
<diddledan> afaict smb is supposed to negotiate the protocol version and setting the minimum just tells it not to negotiate a WORSE protocol
<diddledan> linux doesn't support SMB2 or 3???
<diddledan> I find that hard to believe
<diplo> I've been thinking at looking at this myself diddledan - maybe put off to another day :) could test here and see if it's an issue with freenas over a standard samba share on ubuntu if you like ?
<diddledan> might be helpful, yeah
<diplo> OK will take a look at how to do it now
<diplo> So it appears you have 4 versions of smb2
<diplo> it goes to smb2_10 by default, I'll change to that
<diddledan> yeah, it's confusing because I've read that SMB3 is a synonym for SMB2
<diddledan> oops. didn't mean to do that
 * diddledan just watched minions 2 accidentally
<diddledan> err, not minions, despicable me
<diddledan> I started playing the video to see if I'd ripped it ok from ages ago, and .. kinda just carried on watching
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> thoroughly tested
<daftykins> but tomorrow night, what if some bits have flipped since tonight?
<diddledan> :-o
<zmoylan-pi> have to prevent bitrot
<zmoylan-pi> print it out on your dot matrix over night
<diddledan> in hex?
<diddledan> cat despicable-me.mkv > /dev/lp
<zmoylan-pi> there is a barcode system that puts a few k per page...
<daftykins> my old man's probably hiding the old tractor-feed dot matrix somewhere still
<daftykins> hahaha
<zmoylan-pi> set up dotmatrix... line up paper... start printout... watch for 5 minutes to see it's working ok...go away and find it barfed somewhere about 5 hours into the print run...
<zmoylan-pi> we had one customer who had a print run that took 6+ days... every week...
<zmoylan-pi> patrolling security guards swapping paper in middle of the night
<diddledan> what happened when it got to over 7 days on a weekly basis?
<zmoylan-pi> it actually looked like they were going to replace us for a company that supplied a mainframe printing system... about size of a washing machine. 4 times faster. silly money
<zmoylan-pi> once i heard i suggested a second printer attached to different computer. saved a bundle. allowed them to print more stuff that had been wanting to print
<daftykins> cheap game deal ending soon: https://tiltify.com/events/crystal-dynamics-25th-anniversary-campaign
<zmoylan-pi> they printed off entire customer list and what was owed every week in case of /disaster/ destroying computer system. big american company
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :D
<zmoylan-pi> so in the event of godzilla or nuclear attack the invoices could still be sent out...
<zmoylan-pi> and once this weeks list was printed out they had to dispose of the old list in massive industrial shredder to preserve confidential info
<daftykins> this reminds me of the one on the register i read once, where a big company's secretary had a single super-huge MS Word doc and just created a new page to write a new letter on, printed the whole lot then binned the rest each time
<daftykins> keeping just the latest single sheet
<daftykins> part of me wonders if anyone would really be that daft, though
 * zmoylan-pi sees that and raises you the secretary who followed the setup instructions of her computer every day, installing dos, word perfect, printer setup.  then typed up her documents and printed them.  and then did the exact same thng the next day.  never saved single file. even though she was typing in the same one each day
<zmoylan-pi> because that's how she was shown how to use it
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> surely not...
<zmoylan-pi> when i started the word processor we sold had a typewriter mode were the printer printed the letter as you pressed it and some used it that way
<diddledan> wat.
<zmoylan-pi> it does seem bizarre now but that's how it was
<diddledan> less off. more on. very moron
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> although, my nan wouldn't know which end of a mouse you're supposed to point at the screen
<zmoylan-pi> but in some cases the not saving documents was done for a legal reason as it was a soliciters.  they had a whole bunch of legal rules they had to follow for any letters sent
<daftykins> as in a whole electronic typewriter unit? or PC attached?
<zmoylan-pi> they'd stretch the pc keyboard over to were the printer was so that they could see what they were typing appear as they typed it
<diddledan> "don't save it. print it in triplicate though for an audit trail"
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure if they printed it 3 times...
<zmoylan-pi> i think i was afraid of the answer if i asked... :-)
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> mind you, these women were typing at >120wpm so it didn't take much time
<zmoylan-pi> i always remember the typewriter mode as lasers were starting to become more available and having to explain to customers the type writer mode wouldn't work on them
<zmoylan-pi> ...unless they were willing to put the sheet of paper back in multiple times... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> how many thought that was actually a sensible option?
<zmoylan-pi> i think a few said they'd think about it and get back to us...
<daftykins> i haven't had any particularly funny support situations recently
<daftykins> closest call was a client i'd reinstalled the work-from-home laptop for, they took it home and asked why the VPN wouldn't connect... i called up to assist connecting the machine to their home wifi
<zmoylan-pi> they didn't have wifi, did they?
<daftykins> that would be far better, nah it just didn't have a saved network key since it was reinstalled
<daftykins> i don't manage their home setup
<daftykins> i fell over on the top of my scaffold today, not a crowning moment :(
<daftykins> thankfully it was strong enough to take it :P
<zmoylan-pi> at least you didn't fall off it and injure yourself...
<diddledan> eep
<daftykins> newp just some minor de-skinning
<zmoylan-pi> splash on the iodine and keep going...
<daftykins> there's a pole poking up about a foot high in the centre of the whole flat, me and my guest were working and i backed up into it... stumbled and dropped to the deck
<daftykins> oof.
<daftykins> it was going to be time to paint the back, but i found a tonne of loose stuff to scrape off
<zmoylan-pi> once as a kid we were legging it from been chased by some adult who thought we'd egged his house and as we ran across a building site a mate found a metal bar sticking out of the ground and stopped him self dead in his tracks using just his crotch...
<daftykins> :S
 * diddledan winces
<daftykins> joined the choir after that?
<diddledan> ooh I .. oooh
 * diddledan continues wincing
<zmoylan-pi> poor sod lying on the gound in agony... and all his mates standing around unable to stand upright as we were laughing so hard.... :-P
<daftykins> and then the adult caught up with you!?
<zmoylan-pi> we eventually picked him up and carried him home.  he was fine.  massive bruising. but it was the shock of stopping in such a short distance than anything else
<zmoylan-pi> no, we'd left them behind and were just still running to put distance between us and them
<daftykins> yeah, i'm not even sure how that occurred
<diddledan> I believe an engineer would refer to that as "unexpected arrested movement"
<daftykins> what about an Irish engineer?
<diddledan> "booger, me nadS!"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ok bed for me, toodles \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> nn
 * zmoylan-pi wanders off for a shower...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-01
<MooDoo> howdy all
<MooDoo> how is everyone this morning?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<andylockran> hey guy
<andylockran> s and gals
<andylockran> How's things?
<diddledan> popey: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-inadyn-dynamic-dns-client/1513
 * popey hugs diddledan 
<diddledan> yey
 * DJones thows a bucket of cold water over diddledan and popey 
<daftykins> heh last time i tried inadyn it didn't work at all (standard package)
<diddledan> nice sound. there's a hootie own outside
<diddledan> owl*
<zmoylan-pi> we have foxes and cats... you hear the foxes shrieks and wonder what sounds could be worse than that and then discover 2 moggies been romantic can out do practically any other noise at 3am
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-02
<m0nkey_> diddledan: you still awake?
<diddledan> aye
<m0nkey_> What are you using to host e-mail for your domain?
<diddledan> I'm using gmail
<m0nkey_> G Suite?
<diddledan> yup
<m0nkey_> Hmm. The only issue I have with that, if you buy stuff with your G Suite account on the Play Store, you get into vendor lock in. Last thing I want.
<diddledan> yeah, I fell into that trap
<diddledan> that's the main reason I've been reticent about finding another place to keep it
<m0nkey_> I'm using FastMail right now, but it's kinda expensive. Every client I use has to be a 3rd party.
<m0nkey_> So I'm looking at options
<m0nkey_> Outlook Premium is currently $30/year.
<m0nkey_> That's cheaper than $70/year
<m0nkey_> I've looked at O365 Essetials, but that still works out around $73/month
<m0nkey_> Seems that 'real' e-mail is expensive :D
<m0nkey_> I could host it myself, but I don't want the hassel. My time is expensive, having somebody host it for me is cheap :)
<diddledan> yeah, hosting email is a constant pain
<m0nkey_> Outlook Premium for $30/year is the best I've come across.
<m0nkey_> Gives me Exchange for a low price. EAS works on all mobile platforms, etc.
<m0nkey_> While I love FastMail, everything to use it is a 3rd party :(
<m0nkey_> What do you think?
<m0nkey_> Given the choice, who would you use?
<diddledan> certainly the cheaper option is outlook. I would imagine it's fairly solid based on my limited observations
<zmoylan-pi> is there a site that shows downtime for them as i think i've heard of outlook been offline a few times
<m0nkey_> zmoylan-pi: Gmail has been down, Outlook has been down, even FastMail has been down. It happens.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon how goes it ?
<brobostigon> morning, not bad, and you?
<m0nkey_> BTRFS has been deprecated in RHEL7: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/7/html/7.4_Release_Notes/chap-Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux-7.4_Release_Notes-Deprecated_Functionality.html
<MooDoo>  /me waits for the hundreds of "this is an ubuntu channel" comments lol
<m0nkey_> I know that, but if one starts doing it, others might.
<MooDoo> m0nkey_: don't worry i'm being and ar*e :)
<MooDoo> wel i guess that's only suse using it by default now
<popey> it seems it was never particularly well supported there it seems
<popey> interesting that suse went the other way and made it default
<SuperMatt> I've simply haven't heard a single success story with btrfs
<MooDoo> suse?  that's quite a big one :D lol
<popey> probably not because they're hidden away, working fine
<popey> E.g. NetGear ReadyNas, they're btrfs out of the box and just work
<popey> loads of people have them in their homes and businesses
<popey> also, Sailfish phones, ship by default with btrfs.
<popey> Also, OpenSUSE default install which has at leat 10 users, ships by default with btrfs ;)
<popey> works well too. Every time you update it, it uses 'snapper' to take a snapshot which means you can easily roll back.
<SuperMatt> At least 10, but maxing out at 20
<popey> Steady!
<popey> I hear it's in the hundreds of thousands.
<popey> Which isn't to be sniffed at
<popey> That's just one flavour of OpenSUSE of course, they have multiple flavours, and the enterprise SLES too.
<SuperMatt> I understand it being used for /, because it is certainly useful to be able to roll back, but it's awful for /home. I used it in /home, and it made firefox painfully slow.
<popey> Ah, I have never tried it for /home
<SuperMatt> tbh, my experiments were on spinning rust, I'm sure it's better on faster disks
<popey> i switched to zfs on my home server
<SuperMatt> I'm happy with ext4 and xfs
<diplo> I'm going ZFS when i sort my server out at home
<MooDoo> diplo: I need to get a server, but waiting till i move house, thinking about a little intel NUC
<diplo> I use a NUC at work now for running stuff on, but still have my microserver at home
<diplo> the old n54 or whatever it was, running for 7-8 years under the stairs
<diplo> upgrading every few years on lts
<MooDoo> diplo: looked at the microseevers....just want someting to use as a vmware host
<MooDoo> s/vmhost/host
<diplo> I know of people who use it to host a few VM's
<diplo> I've hosted one or two VM's via Virtualbox on my NUC and isn't great, tis ok
<MooDoo> i'll see, just want a decent host server, might have to make one lol
<diplo> I'm ordering a new machine for work, but decent host server would be better to make something yourself
<MooDoo> I'm sure I can do that :D
<BigRedS> I've a not-new NUC as my desktop at work; I/O and memory's great, easily able to have a few relatively idle VMs kicking around at a time
<diddledan> wait, btrfs is deprecated? so it skipped the whole product lifecycle after "alpha"?
<diplo> On Redhat it appears :)
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they're doing a google and going from beta to cancelled
<MooDoo> obviously RHEL can't see what SUSE does
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-03
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> Morning all, any of you guys set up an FTP server before, I haven't.. just want very basic one to test
<diplo> Getting permission denied.. any pointers. PWD appears to be going to /home/andy which is correct, I'm googling currently but I'm guessing it's a vsftpd.conf setting to enable
<diplo> hah, ask here.. sort it.. always the way :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: Usually just framing the question makes one think of something. But don't leave us in suspenders, what was it?
<diplo> write_enable=yes - I expect in most cases you'd lock it down with chroot's etc
<diplo> But I'm going to uninstall it in about 20 mins
 * TwistedLucidity admits they have never once used a "chroot"
<diplo> We have some archaic customers / third party vendors who will only accept FTP connections, but it needs to be automated from a script
<diplo> Our script is dieing with issues, so I'm re
<diplo> -writing it to be a bit more compliant
<BigRedS> IIRC the vsftpd in the repos doesn't do chrooted FTP well, it's oddly picky about permissions
<SuperMatt> Really? I've supported vsftpd doing chroot before now, and it does it quite well
<SuperMatt> the place you chroot to needs to be owned by root, iirc, and then the subfolder can be owned by the chrooted user
<TwistedLucidity> I heard about "downpour.com" the other day. DRM-free audiobook sounded cool.
<TwistedLucidity> So far every book I have checked says "Not Available For Sale in United Kingdom"
<TwistedLucidity> So I guess they don't want my money.
<TwistedLucidity> Industries need to get with the program, region restrictions on the Internet are moronic.
 * TwistedLucidity ponders jumping on the US VPN
<diplo> Did it work TwistedLucidity  ?
<TwistedLucidity> Not tried, but it should do. Region locks are stupid.
<diplo> Certainly are
<TwistedLucidity> I support DVD Regions. Those languages take up space. I don't support DVD Region *Locks*
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: yeah, that's what I mean by it not doing it well :)
<SuperMatt> Naw man, it's fine. It works really well
<BigRedS> ah, hang on, I think Ubuntu's got allow_writable_chroot
<BigRedS> definitely Debian hasn't, which is the problem I have with adding it to an already-running system; I don't want to have to change fs permissions
<SuperMatt> What I used to do was have a folder structure like chroots/user/data (or something) where user is owned by root, and data by the actual user. The homedir for the user is then pointed at the user dir
<BigRedS> ah yeah, but then it's as bad as chrooted sftp
<SuperMatt> :/
<diplo> .
<diplo> Blimey, thought that would have disconnected, rebooted the router 4 times :D
<diddledan> I don't understand how network connections can maintain over an intermittent link like that
<diddledan> I guess I should look at the protocol they use for Deep Space Communications
<diddledan> super low bandwidth AND regular connectivity breaks
<diddledan> I love that a load of radio arrays around the world are linked together to provide the Deep Space Network for satellites and probes and things around the solar system
<diddledan> the whole idea that we have extended networking into the solarsystem is funky - means mars collonists could conceivably get wikipedia
 * diddledan listening to the ubuntu podcast. they're talking about nipples
<diddledan> popey: do you prefer fingering a nipple?
<diddledan> I never managed to get the hang of it
<m0nkey_> diddledan: If Musk has his way, Mars will be collonised and they will get high speed Internet.
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> But would you be able to call it the Internet?
<diddledan> interplanetary net
<m0nkey_> Because Internet is Intercontenental Network
<m0nkey_> I think it should be called "planet"
<m0nkey_> Interplanet :)
<zmoylan-pi> they'll suck at online games multiplayer...
<m0nkey_> Don't worry zmoylan-pi, they'll have local servers.
<zmoylan-pi> only if ms and sony allow them
<m0nkey_> IF you think about it, Bitcoin could become the first interplanetary currancy.
<m0nkey_> Or should I say Bitcoin Cash?
<m0nkey_> If you had 1 bitcoin, over night your bitcoin split and now you have almost doubled your total value.
<diddledan> lol @ ubuntu podcast sting: "are you looking after your bits? why not help other people look after their bits too.."
<m0nkey_> Want to look after your bits and bytes. Put it on ZFS ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> ZFS IS AWESOME btw..
<diddledan> well btrfs is going the way of the donkey so ...
<m0nkey_> I should have gone to Debconf
<m0nkey_> It's down the road from where I live
<diddledan> plus btrfs really hasn't ever reached "usable"
<zmoylan-pi> put on clay tablets, umpteen symrian scribes can't be wrong
<m0nkey_> diddledan: We don't talk about Butter FS.
<diddledan> "using raid 5 ish btrfs? yeah, we killed all your data!"
<zmoylan-pi> and ibm are now talking about a 300tb theoretical tape drive...
<diddledan> yikes
<zmoylan-pi> ...if only i trusted tape... :-)
<m0nkey_> That'll be the next LTO generation.
<m0nkey_> I'm wondering if I should switch back to IRCCloud and drop Quassel.
<zmoylan-pi> now if they made a version that fitted in your phone like their micro hd in the nokia n95...
<diddledan> you're being very indecisive about your ircing :-D
<m0nkey_> Quassel is nice, but I miss push notifications and the ability to log-on from anywhere and not use a client.
<diddledan> bouncy bouncy
<m0nkey_> Yeah, you're right. I'll stick with Quassel for now.
<zmoylan-pi> i use irssi on a rasp pi which i can connect to from anywhere in the house from any device up to and including my nokia dumbphone use a java irc client
<diddledan> "there are two reviews on itunes for the ubuntu podcast, and one of them is from my mum!"
<zmoylan-pi> we've hit peek your mother running linux... sell! sell! sell!
<m0nkey_> diddledan: I'm getting to the point where I don't want to self host anymore. With two kids and other stuff going on, I don't really have the time to maintain it all.
<diddledan> yeah I hear that
<m0nkey_> I like IRCCloud. Push notifications, log-on from any browser, decent mobile app.
<m0nkey_> Quassel has an excelent Android app.
<m0nkey_> But no push :(
<zmoylan-pi> the nice thing i liked about quassel was that at the time i used i had a mac, windows and linux at home and quassel ran on all of them exactly the same
<m0nkey_> zmoylan-pi: That's why I like it.
<m0nkey_> Doesn't matter what device I'm on, config follows me.
<m0nkey_> Same goes with IRCCloud.
<m0nkey_> The only thing missing from IRCCloud, which I will miss in Quassel is command aliases.
<m0nkey_> diddledan: you still use IRCCloud, can you do command aliases yet?
<diddledan> I haven't seen anything about aliases :-(
<m0nkey_> There's probably a script or something I can install in the browser to do that anyway.
 * TwistedLucidity feels like they are missing out all this l33t IRC madness
<TwistedLucidity> I just use Konversation, like an unwashed peasant.
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> Eeewwh.. KDE..
<m0nkey_> :)
<m0nkey_> It's okay, I use explorer.exe as my window manager.
<diddledan> I don't like pheasant
<diddledan> too gamey
<diddledan> love me a drop of bambi tho
 * m0nkey_ dances \o\  /o/  \o_ _o/
<diddledan> m0nkey_: â(-_-)ââ(-_-ï»¿)ââ(-_-)ââ(-_-)â
<m0nkey_> So it's a dance off you want?
<m0nkey_> Wtf. The price of LastPass has doubled!
<diddledan> wat?
<m0nkey_> https://twitter.com/LastPass/status/893111735309275136
<m0nkey_> Double the price for less features
<m0nkey_> I shall not be renewing.
<diddledan> that's really suckynuts
<diddledan> is there an opensauce equivalent I wonder
<m0nkey_> keypass and passwordsafe
<m0nkey_> I hear good things about DashLane, don't know how much it costs.
<m0nkey_> I did try 1Password a while back. But it's expensive, but has a shit ton of features.
<m0nkey_> I might try 1Password again. I recall the Windows and Mac apps were pretty decent. Don't recall Android.
<zmoylan-pi> just download a hacked version of a russian server... :-P
<m0nkey_> riiight
<m0nkey_> Hmm, 1Password is $35USD/year
<diddledan> I think I'm gonna go with: https://passman.cc/
<diddledan> open sauce and has an android app - it's a nextcloud plooooogin
<m0nkey_> and it's integrated with nextcloud?
<diddledan> yup
<m0nkey_> Hmm
<m0nkey_> I don't want to self host.
<m0nkey_> I'm really disappointed with LastPass.
<m0nkey_> Everything else wants $50 or more a year.
<zmoylan-pi> post-its dont't :-)
<m0nkey_> lol
<diddledan> wow: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/03/linux_kernel_grsecurity_sues_bruce_perens_for_defamation/
<diddledan> oh dear: https://www.grahamcluley.com/fbi-arrests-wannacrys-accidental-hero-connection-kronos-banking-trojan/
<zmoylan-pi> in the good old days some one would have held their pints while they beat the bejebus out of one another at a convention... linux is getting all grown up now :'-)
<zmoylan-pi> that wannacry hero arrest seems hokey
<zmoylan-pi> i can't wait for all the security patches... :-) http://boingboing.net/2017/08/03/java-ported-to-commodore-64.html
<m0nkey_> wait. what?
<m0nkey_> diddledan: just found Enpass. Seems to do browser autofill and app fill on Android :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-04
<m0nkey_> It's $10 for a lifetime license for mobile.
<m0nkey_> And it's cross platform, windows, linux, mac, android, iphone.. heck even Nokia S60!
<diplo> popey: You about ?
<popey> ya
<popey> sup
<diplo> You still on Virgin ?
<popey> yes
<diplo> I've got a customer moved over, sending out a router for them, I know how to set modem only mode, but do you need any special settings on the router
<diplo> He has a fixed IP on a business account, but I'll be buggered if I can find a good tutorial on the router side :)
<diplo> One says leave as dhcp, another says enter the fixed IP
<popey> no idea, i have a very old modem
<popey> i dont have a fixed IP either
<diplo> Just wondering if you had any idea :) - ah did wonder. No problems
<popey> I mean, it's fixed in that it rarely changes of course
<diplo> I'm getting virgin in a couple of weeks, but a bit late :)
<diplo> Yeah I remember that from when I had them previously, thanks anyway
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Oli> diplo, if it's truly fixed, I can't see anything wrong with skipping DHCP and setting it fixed. Spoofing the MAC address is the important part.
<Oli> (for authentication)
<diplo> See we used to have to do that, but I don't see anyone mentioning that on any post yet, so that's still a thing ?
<diplo> Thanks Oli - will investigate more
<Oli> Hmm, maybe not if nobody's mentioning it. My experience is a little dated.
<diplo> Yeah mine is from 10 years ago :D
<popey> diplo: Oli i never had to spoof MAC with my superhub. I think that's not needed these days.
<TwistedLucidity> Best thing to do with a SuprHub is run it in modem-only mode
<popey> indeed
<diplo> I found out you need to spoof it if you want to use a router whilst not in modem mode
<diddledan> I really hate that when you're in modem mode and phone them for something, they look on their screen and say "oh, you're in modem mode, let me fix that for you"
<diplo> I have that to look forward to then :D
<diddledan> of course, I was a residential customer, so the business team may be more accomodating
<diddledan> wtf is this about a smart salt dispenser?!
<diddledan> "interactive centrepiece"
<diplo> My home one is not business, my question was about a customer of mine, just not touched VM for years
<diplo> 90% of our customers are on Zen
<zmoylan-pi> that was months ago. the smart salt dispenser
<diddledan> the video I'm watching (advert) is posted 31 July
<zmoylan-pi> it'll only be truly iot if it can't dispense salt if it can't get a wifi signal
<diddledan> I worry about people with high blood pressure getting their smalt hacked to give them more salt than is healthy
<diddledan> "alexa, is this mound _really_ quarter of a tea spoon?!"
<diplo> I only use Alexa at home for playing music, do you guys use them for anything
<diplo> other that ?
<diddledan> Indispensable 00's Websites "FOR MEN" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7z_Zwuz00A
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zed_> mh
<diddledan> I wonder if anyone is working on something for the mac "touch bar" in linuxland..?
<zmoylan-pi> do you think the touch bar is anything more than a gimmick that will be there in a few years?
<diddledan> I don't really know what to think about it
<zmoylan-pi> any other companies rushing to copy it?
<diddledan> not that I've seen, but those other companies generally do touchable main displays
<zmoylan-pi> the keyboard, a device professionals train to never look at... let's put a tiny display there away from the actual display...
<Nokaji> can anyone help me get my printer back to working, it's a software issue caused by upgrading to software that was later 'rolled-back'. This was some months ago and I've never found a fix,  - here's the latest errors - https://justpaste.it/edit/17486113/231d3c4d
<Nokaji> ubuntu 16.04
<daftykins> Nokaji: did you go and ask in #ubuntu in the end?
<Nokaji> daftykins: Yes, sorry, am in there now - thanks
<daftykins> popped by this restored gun placement in the south-west of the island today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS_CAYA_fmA
<Cacciatore> Hi, got me a bit of a situation here - After some mods and deletes I've lost access to ubuntu 16.04, unable to reboot. I'm considering downloading & installing over with the latest version
<Cacciatore> My current concern is losing data, eg settings, passwords, files
<penguin42> Cacciatore: Boot off a live cd, mount the disc and copy your critical data off
<Cacciatore> penguin42, good thinking
<Cacciatore> I guess I can only lose stuff in the install drive
<Nokaji> okay, installed ubuntu on usb, ... will installing this corrupt my windows partion?
<Nokaji> partition*
<Nokaji> I guess I'll find out - nothing else for it
<Nokaji> ciao for now...
<daftykins> figured it'd be the same guy
<daftykins> lmao
<zmoylan-pi> these days i just blitz the windows partition, not worth the hassle of windows 'updating' and breaking a dual boot
<diddledan> daftykins: is that not part of the UK's brexit plans to maintain borders?
<Cacciatore> so, ... I've lost access to my ubuntu o/s partition. only option so far is 'install', which threatens to over-write everything there. That means unless I'm mistaken I shall lose everything such as emails and even email account settings. My next option is get another drive and at leisure try to recover the data - anyone any thoughts?
<zmoylan-pi> boot off a live distro to copy the data off?
<Cacciatore> zmoylan-pi, Yup, tried that, wasn't giving me access, maybe I screwed my password up
<Cacciatore> tried logging in as the 'old' me also, it wouldn't have it
<Cacciatore> not sure I'd even be able to retrieve the date if I add a drive but at least I have a chance, it's possible also that a frsh install won't wipe the old & 'extra' data/ settings but I'd have to push 'yes' to find out
<Cacciatore> so get a new drive and take a crash course in advanced ubuntu for seasoned pro, or beginner to pro in 10001 not so easy lessonss
<Cacciatore> is the  SAMSUNG 850 Evo 2.5" Internal SSD - 500 GB  still a good drive these days?
<Cacciatore> damn, this is a right mess
<Cacciatore> well, i guess the good news is I've been meaning to get one of those for a while AND I found me something worth finding whilst looking for a sata cable
<Cacciatore> So, ... any tips on how to make this work, folks? - My first problem is gonna be transferring over my windows 10 partition without it balking at a 'changed system config' security check
<enclude> Hi, which encryption software would you suggest for linux ? I used truecrypt on windows 8.1 and windows 10, also in the phase where it was not updated any more.
<penguin42> enclude: During installation if you ask for full disk encryption or LUKS encryption that's built into Linux
<enclude> penguin42: I meant for genereal encryption for data, e.g. from smartphone
<enclude> 01:29:17 - enclude: when i download doubtful software  or software that i know that is malicious, then I usually shred it ( On Windows with eraser software). But sometimes I forget to shred it and only delete it via the dustbin. How can I LATER guarantee an APPROPRIATE SHREDDING of that Bytes within my Harddisk an RAM, where the malicious software has been stored? Is there any way on linux? Can I see where it was stored and over
<enclude> 01:29:17 - enclude: with zeros and bits (SHREDDING). Or do I have to wait until new installed data does that work? Or does defragmenting like processes do the job? Sorry for my long text!
#ubuntu-uk 2017-08-06
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> which NVMe SSD should I buy for linux?
<ali1234> which ones actually support linux and provide firmware tools etc?
<ali1234> i don't really care about speed
<zmoylan-pi> then why choose an ssd? :-)
<ali1234> size, noise, power usage
<zmoylan-pi> i've had noisy hard drives but even the loudest one i have now is whisper quiet
<zmoylan-pi> odd, i went looking and i thought i'd quickly find some one comparing a few on linux and.... nothing...
<zmoylan-pi> individual tests and benchmarks that read like adverts that make me wary
<penguin42> ali1234: IMHO the most important selection criteria for SSD is a vendor whose firmware you trust to keep the data
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> so which ones are good?
 * penguin42 hasn't bought many; I hear good things about Intel and Samsung
<m0nkey_> Myrtti: Are you about?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<KnightPi> hey brobostigon
<KnightPi> how are ya this fine morning ?
<brobostigon> morning, mostly asleep still, and you?
<KnightPi> At work in Brussels ,
<KnightPi> got a slow day today, co-worker who needs to train me is not here
<KnightPi> so i'm kinda stuck reading documentaries
<brobostigon> :(
<KnightPi> (meaning: listen to podcasts , get coffee and tinker with my pi to spend the time)
<KnightPi> The fact they screwed up my Citrix profile so I can't save a single document (including onenote notes) doesn't help^
<brobostigon> ouch
<KnightPi> oh well, they pay me so ..
<brobostigon> :)
<KnightPi> spent my weekend rebuilding my 2 linux boxes at home.
<KnightPi> Learned a BUNCH about /etc/fstab and mounting files on synology nas drives.
<brobostigon> successfully?
<KnightPi> yep. Paired them well,
<brobostigon> :)
<KnightPi> downloading, encoding, scripts etc all run on the linux machine. The Synology is acting as a central storage area
<KnightPi> kind of a "crossroad" between my different environments
<brobostigon> ah.
<KnightPi> + i setup my raspberry pi III as my dedicated remote machine to SSH into
<KnightPi> surprised myself that I kept going back to the commandline to get things done instead of using the gui
<brobostigon> good good, :)
<KnightPi> yeah. Combinations of Transmission, Calibre and a Kindle Oasis = great
<czajkowski> aloha
<zmoylan-pi> shhh, it's monday out there, if it doesn't notice you it might not make your day horrible :-)
<KnightPi> Bags garbage bins together .. GOOD MORNING MONDAY ! ! ! !
 * zmoylan-pi sidles sideways to avoid the impact zone of the asteroid that's now casting a shadow over KnightPi...
 * KnightPi hopes Bruce Willis is going to fire the detonator in time
<zmoylan-pi> he's trying to find a helmet with an ashtray inside...
<KnightPi> I think i might be screwed
<zmoylan-pi> did you bring your acme parasol?
<KnightPi> of course I did
<KnightPi> its pink
<zmoylan-pi> sure you'll be grand so...
<KnightPi> i always wanted to be craterdust
<zmoylan-pi> we are made of stars, we return to the stars
<KnightPi> So is catpoop ..
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, but cat poop will never stive to reach the stars by itself...
<KnightPi> you obviously don't own a cat
<zmoylan-pi> no one 'owns' a cat, at best we share the same space and goals...
<KnightPi> also true
<daftykins> super cheap 500GB Crucial MX500 SATA SSDs on amazon UK right now, my my
<zmoylan-pi> delilah?
 * daftykins puts down the accordion
#ubuntu-uk 2018-07-31
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> may've ignored my alarm somewhat, tough to get back to it after some holidaying :D
<daftykins> well that's interesting, the local courier who handles DPD stuff finally picked up the phone, turns out my faulty phone has been with them the whole month due to them waiting on some paperwork to be resolved
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> popey: are there plans to have an Ubuntu netflix application like on windows or a mac ?
<daftykins> wow an interviewee on BBC News just flopped over on the floor
<daftykins> czajkowski: \o
<czajkowski> daftykins: ello
<czajkowski> daftykins: I also have a windows laptop which is why I'm asking
<czajkowski> it's rather nice to just launch the netflix app
<czajkowski> and DOWNLOAD in it
<czajkowski> like on my phone
<czajkowski> will wipe the machine soon
<czajkowski> but loving the spec and some of the touch screen features
<daftykins> mmm no idea on the progress with Netflix on Linux, last i heard you could use it in chrome with the DRM plugin but were still limited to 720p video quality or some such
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> but the nice feature of download doesnt work in the web
<czajkowski> but does in the actual app
<czajkowski> which is handy when you're on a plane
<czajkowski> which is where I currently spend a chunk of time
<czajkowski> new lappy is an Acer swift 5
<daftykins> i would wager you'll not see that on desktop Linux for a fair time, probably best to make a dualboot setup if you want to hang onto it
<czajkowski> nods true true
<zmoylan-pi> does the download work on android? use a tablet if you have one?
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: it does on the phone
<zmoylan-pi> smaller screen, draining it's battery, needing a stand for it but it might have to do till netflix notices linux to make an app
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: oh indeed
<czajkowski> and on my phone P10 mate it's a decent size
<lopta> Is Ubuntu Server a good choice for something that needs to run headless?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-08-01
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<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
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<brobostigon> can someone do something about this advertising bot, please.
<zmoylan-pi> one other channel made it so only registered nicks could comment
<brobostigon> yes, thats the case on an autie channel i am on.
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<diplo> spam spam spam :)
<zmoylan-pi> and no ops to but the boot in
<diplo> Can always get popey on Telegram if he's not here
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<daftykins> my my
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<diplo> hopefully stop some of them spamming :) we'll see
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah \o/
<daftykins> good stuff
#ubuntu-uk 2018-08-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning diplo
<diplo> Was well worth getting +r put on here, nice and quiet now :)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan_pi> it will keep out irc newbs too...
<brobostigon> pathfinder playtest release today, :)
<diplo> Yup, which is a good thing, leave them to #ubuntu :)
<Gargoyle> Looking for anyone using packer + lxd + ansible ?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-08-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zxmoy-pi>  morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning elven beings
<daftykins> good news everyone \o/ after a month sat in the local courier agent's office, my faulty phone will be delivered to the repair centre in Milton Keynes this afternoon :D
<diplo> "Maybe"
<daftykins> hehe yeah pretty much
<daftykins> my old backup, a Nexus 4, is such a lemon now that when i wake up and try to switch on wifi it requires a restart before it'll succeed
<diplo> Whats the broken one ?
<diplo> The joys of living in the sticks :D
<daftykins> a Nexus 5x!
<daftykins> hehe yeah down here in the English Channel is most definitely the sticks whenever it comes to trying to ship something up to the motherland
<diplo> I see you have problems on and off :)
<daftykins> LG have about 5 or more phones which all have CPUs that detach, causing a bootloop
<diplo> I'm looking at a second hand 5x to try plasma mobile and ubuntu touch
<daftykins> ah right, probably best avoided - they're known to have this issue and are unlikely to ever be truly fixed
<daftykins> story goes that the bootloader will be permanently locked on the one i get back, too
<diplo> :/
<daftykins> if it ever happens ;D
<diplo> Still busy with work ?
<daftykins> i'd kinda hoped they'd lost it so i could pursue some other compensation
<daftykins> mmm i should be catching up on some invoicing today, but i'm mostly waiting on other folks really
<daftykins> went and popped in a new PC for a client earlier in the week, but need another SSD before i can carry on with more tasks there - great i got it out of the way before the temperatures climbed more
<daftykins> even the low 20s slay me when cycling
<daftykins> hows about yourself? :)
<diplo> Do you have the market for IT work there then ?
<diplo> I'm good, busy as under staffed, but other than that good :)
<daftykins> ah ha - yeah, my clientelle is pretty small, but i don't mind the small business support - it's the wealthy guy with the 3 homes that mostly pays the bills though :D always something to do for him and his family
<diplo> But not depending on him though? all eggs in one basket type of thing
<daftykins> i could definitely do with growing things, he's no spring chicken now... approaching 70
<diplo> I keep debating doing private business, but think I'd miss my work side of my job and the support side may drive me insane, even if the money is good
<daftykins> young wife and 4 year old son though, heh
<diplo> Bloomin eck!
<diplo> So you carry on with her after :)
<daftykins> haha, not sure what she'll end up doing, she's a business type who keeps her fingers in several pies but none of them seem to really go the distance that i've seen
<daftykins> the latest venture is a charity for funding the under-financed off to University and so on in England
<daftykins> what's your main field of work, then?
<diplo> Man of many hats, but work for a software company, mainly doing sysadmin type stuff, but have to keep doing support which is driving me to think to leave
<daftykins> hrmm support for in-house folk or more the company's customers using the products?
<diplo> Support about 100 customers machines, automation etc, and all of the about
<diplo> above*
<daftykins> hmm decently varied then?
<diplo> Yeah which is why I've stayed, but no money to spend, everything is a chore to sort out etc
<diplo> Automated our installation that used to take 2-3 days to 30 mins - I want to do stuff like that :) lots to do, just not enough time
<diplo> Just off to grab some lunch bbiab
<daftykins> i only seem to encounter roadblocks when i have to deal with other folks - one client, a metal work company, have had their website redone by a guy who doesn't respond to emails at all :S
<daftykins> enjoy!
<diplo> yeah that's a big problem for us with third part IT companies and web companies, is getting responses
<daftykins> bit shocking when a month goes by, mmm
<diplo> I've given up caring now, customer wants to use third party IT companies, that's fine... I just won't chase them
<daftykins> years ago i had this situation where i was putting in (what was) Google Apps for someone, their website guy held the keys to the domain - so it took 2 months to get him to set the MX records so we could start using it
<daftykins> totally bypassed the month free trial
<daftykins> just got confirmation on the DPD tracking that my phone got delivered to the repair centre :D
<daftykins> now i wonder how long they'll spin this next bit out
<daftykins> they don't even fix them, just do a motherboard swap inside my original and post it back
<diplo> Yeah we have people like that, not sure why they're like it, don't want to lose control or something, our company just does stuff straight away
<diplo> And woohoo, now another 6 months to return the phone
<daftykins> :D
<halt> Hey guys, I'm using an external drive for backups, but I don't trust the data consistency, is there a program for Linux what can fresh the data content, while validating integrity with some hashing like the RAID ?
<daftykins> rsync source to destination would check the files if that's what you want
<diplo> Or programs like duplicity etc do checks as well
<daftykins> !backup
<lubotu3> There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
<daftykins> :D
<diplo> Mondo, haven't heard of that for years!
<diplo> Is that still a thing
<diplo> It appears it is...
<diplo> Hmm website doesn't load mind :)
<daftykins> well, as with the condition of the ubuntu wiki, most of the factoids are hidden behind folk who won't update them, so i'd not be surprised :D
<diplo> I really want to hash out a better backup strategy for work, customers won't pay money and I hate what we do.. so want to find something I can deploy to all our customers and that I can update and only need to update configs :)
<daftykins> i have the classic where a client wants to be safe from ransomware but don't want to lift a finger
<daftykins> at one point i was going to get them a nice 2 bay synology NAS for at home, like i have done for many folks, then send the backups remotely to their home - but then they went and got a silly Apple TimeCapsule thing without asking me first, so it wasn't capable of my plan
<diplo> We currently tgz dirs at night and sometimes backup to usb, I'd rather have a software solution than my python/bash scripts
<diplo> Yeah customers making silly decisions
<diplo> We sold a customer a server about 6 years ago, with tape drive, tapes were sold with it and shown how to swap,  I went to that site 3 weeks ago, they've never swapped tapes :P
<daftykins> was kinda funny them getting convinced into buying an iMac for home to begin with, they eventually got so annoyed since they didn't know how to use macOS - they asked me to put Windows on it xD
<diplo> Or taken them offsite
<daftykins> ouch
<diplo> I'm so scared about our customers, but you can't protect stupid
<daftykins> mmm, lead a horse to water and all that
<diplo> I'm compiling a list of whats happening on sites atm, going to try and upsell products/backup solutions
<daftykins> that main guy has been 'trained' up on using whatsapp calling when he's off in London / Europe to call back home so he doesn't get killed for calling the Guernsey numbers (they tend to be 40p/min+ for most UK telcos) but he always forgets
<diplo> hahah
<daftykins> Â£120 bill in 3 days
<diplo> Bloody 'ell!
<halt> I don't think neither of the options above would work, I'm using restic for backup, more like to archive so the drive is offline and just sitting idle, but of course have other copy's
<daftykins> why do you think it won't work?
<daftykins> if they aren't a fit then we might be missing something in your explanation of what you do to say why that is
<halt> Duplicity, rsync, Mondo
<daftykins> those are just the names again, not explanations of why they won't help
<halt> I have an SSD drive I want to refresh the info on it, as it was not used and the SSD-s are leaking and forgetting with time if not used
<daftykins> storage leaking and forgetting data, ok now you're firmly in troll territory
<diplo> So rsync data from /home to /mnt/usb or whatever the path is, could also dpkg --list the prgrams you have installed too ? Still not sure what you are trying to achieve that those programs can't hepl with
<halt> the the list of tech listed above are suggesting new backup solutions, however I just want to read up the content, validate that it's not corrupted, and write it back so fresh it up
<daftykins> if you believe the integrity of the data on this/these SSD(s) is compromised, they should not be being used
<daftykins> halt: yeah you haven't paid attention to what i said, have a great day.
<daftykins> sounds like it's another translator question asker
<halt> No I'm not trolling,I asking for help and yet what you talked about does not looks like relevant( and yes I read it, and I *think* I understood ) , there are software like this for windows like http://www.puransoftware.com/DiskFresh.html, the question is that, I have a set of data what I want to ensure to remain recoverable, it's an archive, so no new backups, no sync, no copy, but then clearly I did not managed to explain the problem clearly
<daftykins> rsync compares source to destination to verify if they match, i fail to see how that is not what you want
<daftykins> if you are translating this query i think you should find somewhere that speaks your mother tongue
<halt> there is NO src and destination, there is A drive, so things like SpinRite, HDD Regenerator, DiskFresh, that kind of tool I'm searching for Linux, but there I will search somewhere else, as clearly I will not get an answer, and thank you very much
<daftykins> ah so it's not really a backup at all, you have known bad media and you're leaving data you care about on it
<daftykins> that's not very clever
<daftykins> those programs are pretty widely regarded as snakeoil
<diplo> brb, rebooting VPS
<halt> well.. yet an other wrong presumption, ( I need backup, I'm not British, I have a bad drive ) My drives, are all fine SMART data even HDSentinel show 100% , but there not in use, so following the wisdom of many sysadmin who claim, having backup worth nothing unless you test it time to time, I'm applying this idea to the archives, but I would prefer to do a full recovery test only every ~10 years, what I'm after now is data refreshing once every year o
<daftykins> you said backup, but now you say it's not a copy from a source to destination, so then it's not... how many more things will change each time you try to explain it?
<daftykins> 100% as applied to an SSD speaks only if its' NAND write endurance remaining, there are a lot more things to consider
<daftykins> it's not a backup if it's the only place the data is :) (as you seem to have explained)
<daftykins> let's go back to your original query and see why two people both got the idea you required something to compare two data sets, one of which being a backup of the other
<daftykins> "< halt> Hey guys, I'm using an external drive for backups..."
<daftykins> i'm now going to set an ignore so feel free to go somewhere else, but if you keep presenting garbage to people and wanting diamonds in return, you're going to have a bad time
<halt> :) you are a funny one, but I don't have time for this trolling now, so will back when someone actually want to help, have a nice day
<halt> ps. I suggest to check what HDSentinel does, as that you clearly missed, it's way more then "NAND write endurance remaining" and in fact more then just the collection of all the SMART data
<daftykins> wb
<diplo> ta, wouldn't auth automatically, hadn't noticed... also need to investigate, took forever for server to reboot
<diplo> stuck at mysqld forever
<daftykins> ruh roh
<daftykins> never a dull moment (:
<diplo> Well I never touch the box apart from updates
<diplo> But thinking of moving my nextcloud instance to it etc
<daftykins> ah yeah, i do love nextcloud - aiming to put it in for that co. once i take over the website hosting too, although i need to refresh my understanding of how the letsencrypt wildcard certs work, as the DNS method is totally impractical for me
<diplo> I am about to test Wildcards this weekend
<diplo> Sorry working on multi screens, forget to look back to the right
<daftykins> np :D
<daftykins> i tried out the DNS method but me and my friends have domains all with an unsupported registrar, so having to login and manually update a TXT record every 60 days isn't very practical
<daftykins> i should look at the others
<diplo> I've moved mine to DO's dns, but also about to try route53 for work for the same reasons
<daftykins> ah that'd be a lot easier then
<diplo> For doing internal dns so custname.domain.tld for our internal webapp so we don't have "not secure" :)
<daftykins> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-acme-acme-03#section-7.2
<daftykins> ah ha this would be far better than DNS
<diplo> I use http validation currently
<diplo> Moving to dns-01 for work, as the internal sites can't do http externally
<daftykins> ah, something i'm reading claims http-01 is not an option for wildcards
<daftykins> hmm could move these domains to cloudflare nameservers
<diplo> or that, but yeah is wildcard not dns-01 ?
<daftykins> it is, it can't be used with http-01 unfortunately, so i couldn't easily implement that which would work for me
<daftykins> right now i would have to SSH into my VPS, run the request command to renew the wildcard cert, copy and paste the TXT record value manually into a friends domain control panel and sit and wait for it to be returned via CLI utilities as correctly having updated before i hit enter (since it checks it)
<daftykins> so yeah i really should move to a supported DNS service
<diplo> Yeah that was my problem, which is why I've created a Route53
<diplo> We've got cpanel, evne less supported
#ubuntu-uk 2018-08-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zxmoy-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-08-05
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zxmoy-pi> morning mammals...
<brobostigon> morning elves
<penguin42> hmm, energy supplier trying to raise prices in the middle of a contract
<daftykins> that's rather rude
<penguin42> yes
<daftykins> great news, the lady who works in the cancer research charity shop near me has agreed to take older fixed up computers from me for selling in the shop \o/
<daftykins> i'm always getting offered old machines that wouldn't be so bad with a bit of time spent + Linux installer to rid them of the EOL Windows they may have come with
 * penguin42 isnt sure how well a cancer research shop would deal with selling a Linux machine
<daftykins> one way to find out :D
<daftykins> probably just list them for pennies i would recommend to her anyway - and obviously i'd be just gifting them
<penguin42> wouldn't it be easier to take it to one of the 2nd hand shops and then give the money to Cancer Research?
<daftykins> they operate as a second hand shop...
<daftykins> at least that's the idea i was getting from looking inside :P
<penguin42> well yes, but there are 2nd hand tech shops that know which end of a computer is which
<daftykins> haha, maybe in England
<daftykins> no such thing over here
<penguin42> ah
<daftykins> and why would they need to be knowledgable themselves? if there were printed up spec sheets on each
<daftykins> anyway, can but give it a try with one or two and see how it goes
<daftykins> i don't want to go hoarding junk myself that can't be shifted
<penguin42> yeh; although if they can't shift it then they have to end up paying to get rid
<daftykins> no we have free electronics recycling
<penguin42> is that only for individuals or for companies/organisations as well?
<daftykins> well it wouldn't be a problem at scale if they can't get rid of the first few, would it?
<zxmoy-pi> isn't there a charity that specifically takes old machines for sending to africa and other poor parts of the planet?
<penguin42> daftykins: How old are these machines?
<daftykins> nah you know what, forget it - i've had enough of the negativity
<zxmoy-pi> https://camara.org/
<zxmoy-pi> i'd jsut be worried that i'd end up with all the 'i can't find internet explorer icon' calls... :-/
<diddledan> I wonder if camara would accept a Compaq Proliant rackmount server
<diddledan> Pentium 3!!!
<penguin42> ouch
<zxmoy-pi> when the pentium bug was fresh in the intel engineers mind...
<daftykins> don't see how any support would come back to me :)
 * penguin42 still has my original Pentium 90 in the corner (it doesn't have the fault, because I got the chip replaced!)
<zxmoy-pi> oh in that case daftykins... :-)
<daftykins> i have thought it through a little bit more than you lot seem to be considering :D
<diddledan> put a flyer in the package promoting $competitor for people to call for help "finding the internet button"
<daftykins> the mentioned charities are a nice idea, but i'm not paying to ship old gear off island
<zxmoy-pi> cheap boat anchors for sale! :-D
 * penguin42 once had an old SPARC server at work that was a performance reference; we called it 'ballast'
<daftykins> come to think i was going to phone up some guy on the smaller islands to see if they had any use, too
<diddledan> put his or her mobile tephelone number on the flyer and state 24/7
<diddledan> does Sark have the internet yet?
<daftykins> they have a microwave radio link for their telephone exchange to here xD
<zxmoy-pi> we had a line driver... a primite ups for ironing out spikes in mains power from the late 50s early 60s. weighed about the same as 4 hp laser jet iii's
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that's HEAVY
<daftykins> Sark actually had the highest broadband take up of anywhere here
<zxmoy-pi> we used it as a door stop
<zxmoy-pi> that door was going nowhere
<diddledan> I really should weigh my proliants to see how heavy they are
<penguin42> compaq machines weren't known for being light
<diddledan> they really aren't light - I can barely lift one on my own
<zxmoy-pi> mult mode computes... also paperweights...
<daftykins> ah those old machine chassis were crazy
<daftykins> the first batch contains a core 2 duo desktop, an HP DV6000 which i'd be surprised if even worked and a compaq laptop that might contain an AMD X2
<zxmoy-pi> pressed steel cases, recycled wwii tanks...
<penguin42> core 2 duo was usable - this laptop is
<daftykins> keyword 'was' :D
<diddledan> I loved my core2
<penguin42> I just use this machine for irc though, opening a browser makes it think
<diddledan> I had an athlon64 before that
<daftykins> yeah the modern web is a bit of a different story
<daftykins> well, i can only imagine those happy to pick up a machine for <Â£50 from a charity shop have low standards to be doing so :)
<zxmoy-pi> these people expect more for less
<daftykins> so what's the real angle here for why you're being so negative about the idea? doesn't seem to be any skin off my nose but a small amount of time
<diddledan> I say it's a good plan :-)
<daftykins> ^_^
<diddledan> letting folk have access to cheap second hand gear means that those with not much money have the ability to get a working pc which will get them on or keep them on the innernet - especially as government stuff is going mostly online-first
<diddledan> and it helps the charity with a bit of money
<diddledan> and you get shot of dead stock :-)
<zxmoy-pi> this is the sort of customer you can expect... https://notalwaysright.com/search/charity+shop
<daftykins> yep and it doesn't end up dumped in landfill
 * penguin42 made this core2 a lot better by putting a small SSD in instead of the spinning rust
<zxmoy-pi> couldn't find any spinning rust in latest argos catalog....
<daftykins> yeah, i don't think i'd be willing to even throw in cheap ones and expect some money back before passing them on - though it would definitely make a difference to make them SSD based
<daftykins> naturally they're gonna need checking for if the old spinners are faulty
<daftykins> zxmoy-pi: even that seems to be hassling the store staff and not me ;)
<daftykins> so, RIP Barry Chuckle... no longer will an answer be spoken to 'To me...'
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> also wth at their 80 year old brother marrying a 26 year old 'fan'
<zxmoy-pi> moving slightly beyond fandom there to superfan...
<diddledan> not so much daddy-complex as great grandaddy-complex
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> a wild m0nkey_ !
 * m0nkey_ does m0nkey stuff
<daftykins> ooh look at 'im go!
<daftykins> how're things? hot in diet 'murica right now?
<m0nkey_> diet america.. lol
<m0nkey_> yeah, it's a bit warm
<daftykins> any fires still raging?
<daftykins> even Guernsey was feeling left out - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-45059371
<daftykins> i covered quite some miles on the ol' 2 wheels yesterday, https://goo.gl/maps/ELBiZnPr7a72
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<brobostigon> just submitted my first app for google assistant, :)
<zmoylan-pi> keyed on the command 'ok google, i wonder what this does' it sets loud marching band brass band music for 0300? :-P
<brobostigon> hehe, :D
<brobostigon> nah, its a ST and D&D quiz.
<brobostigon> and i have found some pretty obscure questions like, "which actress has been a starfleet captain and starred in murder she wrote?"
<zmoylan-pi> not remembering a captain... https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Madlyn_Rhue
<knightwise> Kahns great love !
<knightwise> actress i'm not sure
<knightwise> but acTOR is william Shanerr
<knightwise> brobostigon: what is the answer btw ?
<brobostigon> knightwise: kate mulgrew.
<knightwise> of course
<knightwise> New blogpost up : Connect to your server with sshfs from any os: https://knightwise.com/mounting-remote-directories-over-ssh-from-windows-linux-and-the-mac/
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Been getting a lot more writing done since i've started using this old imac with Helium
<knightwise> its a lot more distraction free ...
<brobostigon> another pretty obscure one "Which electronic creature in ST:TMP is rumoured to have inspired the creation of the borg?"
<knightwise> the binars ?
<knightwise>  That or data
<knightwise> or those self aware little robot vacuum cleaners
<brobostigon> ST:TMP = star trek: the motion picture. sorry, but the binars nor data were in that film.
<knightwise> Sorry , then it's of course Vger
<knightwise> in the Shatner books they actually have a story where Vger is linked to the borg
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> there are a lot of books...
<brobostigon> i couldnt find a better description for it, than an electronic creature.
<zmoylan-pi> electronic entity?
<brobostigon> knightwise: i put in an alternative answer, voyager 6, which it is also called in some books.
<brobostigon> self aware electronic entity?
<zmoylan-pi> entity implies self awareness, no?
<brobostigon> possibily.
<zmoylan-pi> they kinda covered it well in tng with data's status as a being been questioned and the metacomp episode where the automated drone tools become self aware
<brobostigon> good point, yes.
<brobostigon> that was a good episode.
<brobostigon> or when data created lal.
<zmoylan-pi> also great episode
<brobostigon> or the one when some one from starfleet wants to disassemble data to study him, and jean-luc fights for datas rights to object to the procedure.
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, that's the measure of a man episode i mentioned earlier
<brobostigon> because that ep with the nanocomps, is a seperate ep.
<zmoylan-pi> i know
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> amazing eip
<knightwise> episode
<zmoylan-pi> tng had a lot of *GREAT* episodes, some turkeys too mind
<knightwise> Oh yesss
<knightwise> the one where riker is a higly wanted commodity on a planet ruled by women :)
<knightwise> and the one where they are on a planet where nobody walks , just JOGS and Wesley messes up their sacred flowerbeds
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't that all of them? :-P
<knightwise> No , thats MY autobiography :p
<brobostigon> last one that i put in too, which actor was the in TOS pilot 'where no man has gone before' and 2001: a space odyssey?
<knightwise> Ah easy
<knightwise> Gary Mitchell
<knightwise> Helmsman-turns-god and Dave Bowman in 2Â°Â°1
<brobostigon> gary lockwood.
<brobostigon> thats his character name in that ep. :)
<knightwise> yep :) I know . I'm realy bad with actor names :p
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> i thought up 20 in total.
<knightwise> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lockwood
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i just get distracted reading the wikipedia articles of the various actors and what else they where in...
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> those are the good questions, because they dont just require knowledge of the specific subject, but also much wider.
<brobostigon> like, umm. which actor been in ST:TNG, TBBT and diagnosis murder?
<knightwise> tbbt ?
<knightwise> ah big bang
<knightwise> leonard nemoy ?
<knightwise> nImoy
<brobostigon> wil wheaton
<brobostigon> leonard nimoy was in columbo.
<knightwise> ah .. i don't know diagnosis murder
<knightwise> nimoy was also in mission impossible
<brobostigon> didnt know that, :)
<knightwise> the original series with jim phelps
<brobostigon> ah.
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-30
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<Safiyyah> Good morning to you all, does anyone have a mouse with more than 2 buttons and how do you configure them (I googled, and the return was xinit but I don't get what to do
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't seen or used a 3 button mouse in yonks... i think my last one was serial... it just worked then. might depend on what flavour of ubuntu you are using? xubuntu, kubuntu etc?
<brobostigon> time bandits on film4, :)
<zmoylan-pi> haven't seen that since the 90s...
<brobostigon> its one of my favorites, :)
<brobostigon> infact its probably one of the best films ever made.
<zmoylan-pi> for me seven samurai... i watch it once a year and it just sucks me in every time
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> and the anachronism of the century, robin hood looking at the mona lisa, which was painted about 300 years after robin hood was repiuted to exist.
<zmoylan-pi> that's there just to annoy the ocd purists... :-P
<brobostigon> like yours truly, :)
<brobostigon> i think my partner gets annoyed by that one sometimes, i am always pointing out mistakes in tv progs and films.
#ubuntu-uk 2019-07-31
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<bigcalm> Hello once again. Bit quiet in here now?
<daftykins> always
<daftykins> hey bigcalm - long time no see, how goes it?
<bigcalm> Currently, spiffing, thanks :)
<bigcalm> Your fine self?
<daftykins> yeah all the better for the cooler weather having returned :D
<bigcalm> The ups and downs of living in Brit land
<daftykins> yip yip
<daftykins> thankfully down here in the Channel Islands it didn't get as hot as in say, London
<bigcalm> No escaping the sea air
<daftykins> mmm it helps nicely to stop those heat waves
<m0nkey_> All we do is wave
<m0nkey_> o/
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> \o
 * m0nkey_ wonders how many Ubuntuers he can convert to FreeBSD
<m0nkey_> :)
<bigcalm> What are the benefits?
<m0nkey_> ports :)
<m0nkey_> Not really trying to convert people. Use whatever works for you
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> I am always curious as to know what else is out there and if are better tools
<m0nkey_> FreeBSD is another Unix like OS, native ZFS support, ports tree is comprehensive, excellent documentation and handbook. If you ever want to escape systemd or or upstart, there's that. lol
 * m0nkey_ summons diddledan over to the red side
<daftykins> he doesn't talk to us lowly folk anymore :(
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> Now that he's a snap maintainer....
<daftykins> mmm he's too far gone :(
<zmoylan-pi> we'll just have to get him promoted to crackle or pop... :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2019-08-01
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> a friend who was also looking at ISO 27001 has just told me about this, looks a lot easier so maybe it can be done sooner - https://www.cyberessentials.ncsc.gov.uk/
<daftykins> yip looks super basic
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<daftykins> poor cat has a new hole in her that shouldn't be there, time for an emergency vets trip
<zmoylan-pi> how did she do it? :-(
<daftykins> not a clue, on the phone they said it could be an abcess - or it could've been a fight
<daftykins> pretty large slice so it's not going to seal up by itself methinks
<zmoylan-pi> poor kitty... hope she recovers quickly
<daftykins> thankfully she doesn't seem too fussed so far, but she's been licking that spot a lot
<zmoylan-pi> sounds innternal rather than a fight. when ever our moggies got in a scrap the wounds would be external and visible
<daftykins> there was definitely a good redness to the fur in the area for a bit, i didn't look closely until a day or two after
<zmoylan-pi> ah. cats can hide a fair bit in their fur. our usually had massive chunks missing. necessitating a visit to vet. later she realised if she won the fight she wouldn't have to go to the vet... she was a mean kitty :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2019-08-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<brobostigon> it works, my handywork, "talk to taylorworld star trek trivia" :)
<daftykins> just contacted these jokers to suggest they stop storing passwords in plain text - https://www.charitydigitalexchange.org/
#ubuntu-uk 2019-08-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<brobostigon> yay, had a layin, an extra half an hour.
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> pesky moggy has removed her bandage already, heh
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> time for the cone of shame...
<daftykins> seems to be the case, yep
<daftykins> this her cut today - https://i.imgur.com/QZApEib.jpg
#ubuntu-uk 2019-08-04
<brobostigon> morning
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
