#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-13
<scott-work> TheMuso`:  would you please ping me at some point in the next day or so, i would like to have some preliminary discussion about the xsession (unity vs gnome) fix after talking with didirocks
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-14
<ScottL> TheMuso`, i believe i understand what we need to do, however didirock suggests we do something that will not interfere with other install (although i don't know why they would want to install over studio)
<ScottL> but i don't think it will be necessary because of how we handle a few things
<ronj> hi
<ronj> Results of my testing of the Natty audio stack: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-December/002881.html
<kubotu_> less swollen from my testing
<holstein> ronj: COOL
<holstein> ScottL: ping?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-15
<ScottL> holstein, pong
 * ScottL has to go out with family in a minute though
<ScottL> my daughter has a singing program tonight
<ScottL> abogani, i tried to test the kernel but had unclear results, the new computer i'm using is a bit wonky though
<ScottL> i should be able to perform additional tests before christmas with an additional computer i should be recieving
<ScottL> TheMuso, later tonight/tomorrow can we talk about the fix for the xsession gnome/unity situation?
<ScottL> astraljava, are you moving towards being ready for the backporting?  i have documentation almost ready
<TheMuso> ScottL: Yeah ok, just ping me when you are ready.
<ScottL> TheMuso, it should be in about three hours hence (perhaps more)
<TheMuso> ok
<ScottL> TheMuso,  didirock pointed me at this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-netbook-default-settings/maverick/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
<ScottL> and said to look at the part between lines 10 and 14
<holstein> ScottL: how did the girl do?
<holstein> did she have fun?
<ScottL> but also said to look at the entire package to make sure it will also work in users install xubuntu or mythbuntu
<TheMuso> ScottL: Right, am in the middle of something, give me 5 minutes.
<ScottL> holstein, oh, she did fine, but was really, really nervous before the show (it was at the high school with lots and lots of people)
<ScottL> TheMuso, no problem, just ping me
<TheMuso> ok
<holstein> AH :)
<holstein> i bet she rocked it like her pops does 
<holstein> i was going to say about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-December/002881.html
<holstein> i was told that this is being looked at because more than JACK is being affected
<holstein> more than *just JACK
<holstein> not that you were losing any sleep over it ;)
 * ScottL is checking the email but i think i read it today
<holstein> still early
<ScottL> holstein, this has also hit the debian multimedia mailing list as well
<TheMuso> ScottL: ok I will have a look at that bzr branch
<holstein> ScottL: good, i was just trying to decide if i needed to make some noise somewhere
<TheMuso> Ok I see what its doing, jst got to find the name for the GNOME session now. :)
<ScottL> TheMuso, actually i think it is called 'GNOME'
<ScottL> i found it along with a GNOME-fallback or something similar
<TheMuso> Actually classic-gnome.
<ScottL> oh, that's right, i was looking at the lucid install when i saw that :/
<ScottL> didirock said he changed the name
<ScottL> TheMuso, but didirock was telling me to look at the entire package and see what it was doing so this could work with xubuntu, etc
<TheMuso> yeah gnome-classic
<TheMuso> That package has nothing to do with xubuntu/mythbuntu.
<kubotu> can kopete not be better if we need to figure out the right way to do with accessibility within unity which i need coffee
<ScottL> yes, i know, but he was saying this if others wanted to install xubuntu, this would work better
<TheMuso> I still don't get it.
<ScottL> but i don't think we need to do this because we seem to be doing things quite a bit different from what i can tell
<TheMuso> That package is for netbook stuff
<kubotu> works fine but.. i kinda wanna keep it vanilla.. YOu know what i meaN
<TheMuso> ScottL: Exactly, we don't depend on ubuntu-desktop et al.
<ScottL> TheMuso, good that you don't understand because i wasn't understanding him either
<TheMuso> So in short, our default settings package simply needs to set a gnome-classic session. That should be easy.
<kubotu> which she bit into, and then became sick and dizzy. The airline denies thatâAmerican's lawyer told the new metapackage that includes "all crap on the disks, things don't go right/something probably crashes. i think have found a way to set the classic GNOME session to avoid any possible problems.
<TheMuso> Ok, we need to get rid of this stupid kubotu bot.
<ScottL> yes :)
<ScottL> TheMuso, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/10/%23ubuntu-desktop.txt @ 17:00
 * TheMuso looks./
<ScottL> this is where didi mentions others installing alongside others
<TheMuso> I think he is thinking about us having a separate session to everyone else, but we modify the core settings of the gnome desktop in such a way that this would be difficult.
<TheMuso> ...and people haven't complained about what we have done so far, so I only think it would be worth going down this route if people get up in arms about having a separate layout for a different desktop etc.
<TheMuso> ...and both xubuntu and mythbuntu use a different session launcher afaik anyway.
<ScottL> TheMuso, yes, that was what i was thinking (that we modify things so differently) that we probably didn't need to worry about it or it might simply be incompatible
<TheMuso> It could be done for sure, but users aren't complaining about getting back to the old desktop layout once they install ubuntustudio-desktop.
<ScottL> yes, and i couldn't fathom that someone would want to install mythbuntu after installing studio ;)
<ScottL> okay, i was planning on adding lines 10-14 to our code, does that seem sane?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> Oh and BTW, you have ops in here, I don't, so you should be able to kick that bot.
<ScottL> okay, i'll add it to ubuntustudio-default-settings later this week
<ScottL> i tried to kick it but it says i'm not channel operator, maybe i should log in as 'scott-work' :P
<TheMuso> You should be able to grant ourself ops with "/msg chanserv op #ubuntustudio-devel ScottL"
<TheMuso> let me check again.
<ScottL> TheMuso, i'll do it tomorrow at work with scott-work
<TheMuso> Oh ok, you explicitly need to use the ScottL_ nick
<TheMuso> According to the access list, ScottL_ is what is listed
<ScottL> yeah, i borked my logins by adding another login name :/   but i feel like it's too much trouble at this point to fix for not enough gain
<TheMuso> fair enough.
<ScottL> TheMuso, so, should i add the code, create a debdiff, file a bug, add the patch, subscribe you, and then ping you in IRC ?
<TheMuso> SOunds good.
<TheMuso> Don't forget there is a bzr branch for default-settings.
<ScottL> ubuntustudio-default-settings, yes
<TheMuso> ok good.
<ScottL> i did play with unity a little during this week and trying to record with hydrogen, ardour, and jack
<ScottL> it seemed a little alien doing so to me
<ScottL> however, i can see how the desktop using unity would be good for a general public needing a streamlined and linear desktop
 * holstein is still on the fence
<kubotu> no still on the right way to do it... with Provides
<ScottL> if mark's goal was to differentiate ubuntu from other linux distributions and position it for mainstream acceptance, then i think he's on the right track
<ScottL> look at the way netbooks exploded
<ScottL> in an oversimplication, desktops were for geeky type of people, but even grandparents are buying and using netbooks
 * ScottL admits those are sweeping generalities in the extreme
<holstein> im glad that ubuntu is going to be so different
<holstein> personally
<ScottL> it has been said before, linux greatest strength is it's options
<holstein> my only concern is that windows user that is transitioning
<holstein> OR osx
<ScottL> but linux's greatest weakness is it's options
<holstein> unity really looks like only unity
<holstein> BUT
<ScottL> true
<holstein> should we really cater to that anyway?
<holstein> i mean, i know how to install gnome
<holstein> and i think the idea is great
<holstein> set ubuntu apart from the rest too
<ScottL> this is analogous to apple i think, make it different, but sexy, make it only work one way
<holstein> im hopeful
<holstein> BUT im on the fence as to if i will like unity
<ScottL> in some ways i don't want ubuntu to blow up and go completely mainstream
<holstein> ScottL: hehe
<ScottL> i like the small community vibe
<holstein> im a little excited about it
<holstein> sometimes i think about what *could happen
<holstein> and its exciting
<ScottL> reminds me of when i used to skateboard, no one else really did it....then _everyone_ was skating
<holstein> BUT i think we missed it with the netbook craze
<holstein> that would have been the time
<holstein> now, win7 comes on them like everything else
<holstein> BUT still, im hopeful
<ScottL> i still want a docky type interface that users can set up multiple (and selectable) instances for easy access to applications following workflow categories
<holstein> i like that idea
<ScottL> just like people set up jack for if they are recording, mixing, or mastering
<holstein> wbar?
<holstein> its light
<holstein> looks nice too
<holstein> or used to
<kubotu> seems to ~work, so I only think it would be nice: http://i.imgur.com/388wL.png
<holstein> might be dead now
<ScottL> but depending on your current workflow, you pick the docky instance that shows you pertinent applications  you have placed on it
<ScottL> holstein, i don't know about wbar, but i will soon
 * ScottL plugs into the matrix and Trinity downloads it in him
<holstein> hehe
<ScottL> actually google is less invasive and might be quicker
<ScottL> :)
<kubotu> thinks that it might be spelled
<ScottL> i really wish i knew what triggered kubotu
<ScottL> it seems so random
<ScottL> wbar looks good too
<holstein> i had to search around for a .deb back in the day
<ScottL> the one thing that i really, really don't like is when the dock shows the current applications running as well
<holstein> i had it running on antix
<holstein> yeah, wbar is configurable that way
<holstein> i had it right in the middle of the screen 
<ScottL> i found wbar in packages.ubuntu.com
<holstein> ScottL: COOL
<ScottL> started in karmic though
<holstein> this would have been hardy
<kubotu> if mark's goal was to use the UUID as media/<foldername> though, looks much more cryptical than /media/disk
<holstein> or earlier
<holstein> kubotu: 
<holstein> ! kubotu 
<ScottL> the.muso showed me how to kick it but i'll do it tomorrow when i log in under my other login name
<holstein> how does it get here?
<ScottL> dude, no freaking idea!   but i rue the day ;)
<holstein> maybe someone is pointing and laughing right now ;)
<ScottL> yeah, i thought about that, someone making a bot responding to queries from a different room
<ScottL> just non sequitor responses
<ScottL> after getting the xsessions issue resolved i'm diving into the plymouth theme update (which shouldn't take long) and then hopefully getting momentum behind the lucid backports
<holstein> w00t :)
<ScottL> i'm hoping to get a few people to help build them, but that's not horribly necessary
<holstein> id like to
<ScottL> BUT i will need a few people to help test them and document successful test in the bug reports
<holstein> im trying to get in the loop a bit with falk
<holstein> maybe i can build something over there
<holstein> and learn how
<holstein> but testing, im in
<holstein> i have natty in VM
<ScottL> once we get two people confirming successful tests in the bug report the official backport team should push the package into the real backports repository
<holstein> and i can test lucid somewhere around here
<ScottL> holstein, if you follow my backport documentation it pretty much walks you through most of it :)
<holstein> building?
<ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp
<ScottL> aye, building the package as well
<holstein> i'll give it a read
<ScottL> i think most of the packages should not require any significant structural changes, just bumping the release version down to lucid
<ScottL> that's one reason i prefer to steal these from maverick rather than natty
<holstein> yeah
<ScottL> didn't want the depends to change versions to drastically
<ScottL> but this is a great primer (in my opinion) to help understand how packaging works in general
<ScottL> i'm not a master packager or anything like that, but this does provide a good framework for how things are done and how they interrelate
<TheMuso> Worth pointing out that the kubotu is only in this channel.
<kubotu> kubotu is not an ABI break since libnepomuk links against kdeui)
 * TheMuso wishes he had ops.
<kubotu> scott-work: I'm offended!
<scott-work> @comment 35815 kubotu was removed because it randomly posts irrelevant messages, doesn't seem to contribute, and no one from the channel claims to have placed it here
<kubotu> scott-work: you hurt my feelings
<scott-work> jussi: do you know anything about kubotu?
<jussi> scott-work: yeah, apachelogger made it talkitive - Im not real pleased 
<jussi> at least its quiet now...
<scott-work> thanks jussi :)
<scott-work> if ubottu and ubuntulog are here, i wonder why apachelogger put yet another bot in here?
<holstein> 09:57 -!- kubotu [~rbot@ninja/bot/kubuntu-phenom/father-of-skynet/kubotu]
<holstein> 09:57 -!-  ircname  : Ruby bot (c) Tom Gilbert and the rbot development
<holstein> i thought it was a supybot
<scott-work> it looks like juss managed to muzzle it :)
<scott-work> holstein:  to follow up from last night, even if you don't do any packaging for the backports, just testing and reporting the test in the bug report would be an incredible help
<scott-work> i'm hoping to get astraljava or ricardo to help as well
<holstein> making it relavantly talkative might not be too bad...
<holstein> scott-work: im into testing for sure
<scott-work> if it made sense when it talked wouldn't be bad :P
<scott-work> sweet (re: testing)
<holstein> and im already set to go for that really
<holstein> scott-work: all i need is a lucid install right?
<scott-work> holstein: yes
<scott-work> once we see how people are involved we can further define where the backports can be installed
<scott-work> if i'm the only one packaging, then perhaps i leave them in my PPA
<scott-work> i'm multiple people are doing it then perhaps we use a ubuntustudio-dev PPA
<holstein> yeah, you might want a separate one
<holstein> just in case
<scott-work> holstein: if you _do_ want to try some packaging, i'll be happy to cherry pick one (or even test build it first) to make sure there aren't any surprises in it
<holstein> scott-work: im in
<holstein> any help i can get to get the ball rolling
<scott-work> holstein: how about rakarrack?  looking at the build-depends it seems there shouldn't be any trouble...i'll even test build it tonight just to make sure
<holstein> scott-work: rakarrack would be great
<holstein> transmorgramofix might give me some hints too if he's not busy :)
<scott-work> holstein: you shouldn't need him to help you
<holstein> im RTFM
<scott-work> you will be taking code directly from maverick, changing a things, and then rebuilding it
<holstein> and asking about multiboot 
<holstein> before i bork my box ;)
<scott-work> all the packaging work will have already done since it's already in ubuntu
<holstein> true...
<holstein> OK, im going to get crazy here
<holstein> and get a triple boot going on
<holstein> scott-work: i
<holstein> 'll let you know if i get stuck somewhere
<holstein> *with the packaging, not the triple-boot
<scott-work> lol, that's what i read :)
<scott-work> ardour 3.0 is supporting jack-session:  http://ardour.org/a3_features_jack_session_support
<holstein> scott-work: question
<holstein> do i need 64bit installs?
<holstein> or both?
<scott-work> this should be architecture agnostic
<holstein> good
<scott-work> when you send your code to the PPA it will build both sets
<holstein> i want to do 32bit installs on there i think
<scott-work> now, having said that, it is possible that you test build with 32 bit and the 64 bit fails in the PPA because of some reason
<scott-work> if you had testing in 64 bit you would have recognized the problem
<scott-work> s/testing/tested
<scott-work> but you will know if something fails because your PPA will tell you about it
<holstein> so maybe i should do 64bit ones...
<scott-work> well, the inverse could happen just a likely
<scott-work> i chose 32 bit in my example because that's what i use and build ;)
<holstein> i only have a gig of ram on this thing
<holstein> but i think it'll be OK for what im going to do
<scott-work> oh yeah, it might take some time to test build, but you can start it buidling in pbuilder and walkway away for thirty minutes or an hour and see what happens
<holstein> yeah, im OK with that
<scott-work> i usually try to set up a build when i know i need to do something else, like dishes or clean up the house ;)
<scott-work> or even playing fallout on xbox
<scott-work> holstein:  i was wrong about just needing the lucid install, you actually want to have a maverick install to make it the easiest in my opinion
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> and i need one for falk too
<holstein> and a natty one for those kernel tests...
 * scott-work is running a quadruple boot at the moment (lucid, maveric, natty, and vanilla natty with unity)
<scott-work> http://ardour.org/a3_features   list of the upcoming new features in ardour 3.0
<holstein> yeah, i just realized when i was reading that link you gave me that i was going to need to bite the bullet
<holstein> and boot some OS's :)
<scott-work> i just bought a computer from ebay and so i can have a dedicated machine for testing
<holstein> nice
<scott-work> i really don't like having my recording machine tied up with multiple boots
<holstein> nah
<holstein> i dont want to do that on my studio box
<scott-work> oh, it's not a super computer, it's just another p4
<holstein> this laptop has firewire
<holstein> it'tt be a good test
<holstein> just not a lot of memory
<holstein> this is some 64bit single core lappy
<holstein> has a funky keyboard though
<scott-work> i used my studio box for all testing and multiple booting currently, but i keep all studio stuff and seperate /home directory on one drive and do the other installs on a second hard drive
<scott-work> now i'll seperate the testing and other installs to the other computer
<scott-work> BUT, the prices i saw on ebay for dual cores looks pretty good and i will need one soon for the video editing i want to do, so after the holidays when i can save up $250 or so i'll get one
<ScottL> holstein, i'm at home now if you need any assistance
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-16
<holstein> ScottL: i had a gig
<holstein> im just getting around to the installs really
<holstein> burning discs and all that
<holstein> well, seems everything installed alright
<holstein> crazy busy tomorrow though
<holstein> ScottL: ping
<BenLoftis_> hello ... looking for UbuntuStudio  devs/ project managers  
<holstein> BenLoftis_: whats up?
<holstein> i can help the message get where it needs to go prolly
<BenLoftis_> Over at Harrison, we're getting close to a Linux launch of Mixbus,  our hot-rodded version of Ardour.   I'd like to  (a)  list ubuntustudio as a "preferred" or "supported" distro for use with Mixbus, and secondly, ask if they want to provide some affiliate links to our Mixbus store.
<holstein> OH
<holstein> right on
<holstein> i thought i recognized your nick :)
<BenLoftis_> yeah I recognized yours
<holstein> we have a meeting coming up
<holstein> and that can be a topic
<holstein> this tuesday i think...
<holstein> BenLoftis_: would you mind to send an email to the DEV list?
<holstein> with exactly what you have in mind?
<holstein> ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com 
<holstein> you can CC me on it too
<BenLoftis_> I'd probably have to be a member to join...
<BenLoftis_> to post rather
<holstein> mikeh789 at gmail dot com
<BenLoftis_> will you forward  it for me?
<holstein> if it doesnt go through
<holstein> i'll forward
<holstein> AND, i can get back to you about the progress
<BenLoftis_> Actually I'd prefer to use either IRC or email if you don't mind.   putting it on-list while we are just "discussing the possibilities" might start more press than I'm interested in at this stage.
<holstein> sure
<holstein> PM if you prefer
<holstein> totally fine in here too though
<BenLoftis_> well,  I pretty much laid it out above.  we want to (a) list ubuntustudio as a good/supported/suggested platform,  and (b) see if they want to link back to our store and get a cut of sales.
<BenLoftis_> How many people would be involved in that kind of discussion?  I don't know what kind of organization you guys have.
<holstein> cool, i'll get taht to ScottL 
<holstein> that*
<holstein> he'll know how to procede
<holstein> i think ScottL can make that call
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-17
<ScottL> holstein, BenLoftis_ awesome!  I'll have to clear this with someone, but i would certainly be interested
<ScottL> jussi, TheMuso , persia: do any of you know who i might contact regarding monies derived from selling ubuntu studio products or endorsements?
<ScottL> as i mentioned before i would really like to sell ubuntu studio gear and fund some development or even possibly some artwork :)
<ScottL> holstein, if you are trying to build rakarrack you will also need to install the package 'dpatch' before running debuild
<holstein> ScottL: im not quite there
<holstein> i got maverick and natty installed
<holstein> got maverick pretty much set up today
<holstein> the chroot
<holstein> and a DL'd the rakarrack source
<holstein> then i got busy
<jussi> ScottL: this document is a good one. http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<ScottL> outstanding, thank you jussi, i'll read that latter today
<ScottL> holstein, if you follow the ubuntustudio/backportshowtohelp page and install the dpatch package then rakarrack builds well in pbuilder
 * ScottL also updated the wiki page to include installing dpatch
<ScottL> i suppose i might even look at including waf and scons at some point, perhaps with caveats of when i think they might be needed (e.g. ardour)
<ScottL> wow, guitarix is really improving :) http://sourceforge.net/apps/wordpress/guitarix/2010/12/17/latest-development-snapshot/
<holstein> ScottL: im going to make a little lunch, crack my knuckles, and give it a go :)
<ScottL> oh good :)
<ScottL> hi quadrispro :)
<quadrispro> ehy ScottL |
<quadrispro> !
<quadrispro> I'm very sorry for the delay I use to reply to mail, messages etc
<quadrispro> an interesting job is getting me very very busy
<ScottL> quadrispro, i hadn't really notice any delay to be honest
<ScottL> what is interesting about the job?
<quadrispro> to achieve the best, i need to learn a lot about ubiquity
<quadrispro> and debian-installer
<quadrispro> and it's very exciting
<ScottL> that is exciting quadrispro  :)
<ScottL> i'm starting to learn more about setting xsessions, although i'm just scratching the surface, just enough to keep ubuntu studio to run with gnome xsession as default
<holstein> ScottL: how much of ubuntustudio will i need?
<holstein> installed
<holstein> im getting a debuild error
<holstein> and looking in /usr/bin/debuild makes me think i dont have all the packages i need
<ScottL> holstein, if you follow my backports guide you should have all that you need
<ScottL> in fact you don't even need ubuntu studio at all, it can be vanilla ubuntu
<ScottL> you actually only need to install a few fundemental packages for building
<ScottL> your pbuilder environment will temporarily download all the necessary dependencies for each package you are building
<ScottL> this way it doesn't clog up your system
<ScottL> with installing metric tonnes of ancillary packages
<ScottL> holstein, if you are _not_ using the pbuilder environment then you _will_ need to install all the dependencies for each package you are building
<holstein> this is in the debuild -S -sd command
<holstein> im going to google around a bit
<holstein> i dont know why i thought it would be easy ;)
<holstein> im not sure... from what im finding, it points to a dependancy issue
<holstein> http://paste.ubuntu.com/545051/
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> now im not sure again...
<holstein> whatever, i just got started... i'll try again later
<holstein> hmm
<holstein> you know, i havent updated this install yet
<holstein> it could be that simple
<holstein> an updated version of someting i need to have
<holstein> i'll get that going on while im out for the gig
<holstein> and freak out on it more later
<ScottL> holstein, you needs to install cdbs
<ScottL> some builds use cdbs instead of automake or whatever
<ScottL> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
<ScottL> debian/rules:5: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk: No such file or directory
<ScottL> debian/rules:6: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk: No such file or directory
<ScottL> those lines tell me that
<ScottL> holstein, make sure you follow this part:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp#Packages%20for%20Building
<ScottL>  
<ScottL> holstein, i tested built rakarrack using my backports how to and it went really smoothly except i needed to add dpatch (which should now be in the instructions)
<ScottL> so, there's no need to freak out :)
<holstein> yeah :)
<ScottL> if you follow the instructions everything should go smoothly
<holstein> i go sudo apt-get install build-essential quilt cdbs dpatch
<ScottL> yes, use the terminal
<ScottL> or install those packages using synaptic
<holstein> yeah
<holstein> i got them*
<holstein> not sure what the hang up is
<ScottL> are you sure about the cdbs?
<holstein> no ;)
 * holstein looking
<holstein> eh, i'll have to check later
 * ScottL is away looking at his inkscape build upstairs
<holstein> i just copied and pasted though
<holstein> and didnt get any errors
<holstein> anyhow, i gotta run to the gig
<holstein> ScottL: thanks :)
<holstein> im sure its something stupid on my end that i'll sort out
<holstein> growing pains :)
<holstein> BBL...
<ScottL> okay, i'll be around :)
<holstein> ScottL: yeah, totally skipped a step there
<holstein> it worked
<holstein> i gotta sort out my GPG key, and im rocking/rolling
<holstein> ...laterx
<ScottL> oh good!  :)   glad to see it moving forward then
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-18
<holstein> ScottL: lol
<holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rakarrack/+bug/584859
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 584859 in rakarrack (Ubuntu) "rakarrack doesn't work" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<holstein> maybe lol isnt the proper response
<holstein> its sad really
<ScottL> holstein, yeah, it is slightly sad, but at least they are filing bug reports
<holstein> i just hope its not file, wipe, forget...
<holstein> ScottL: you have a minute?
<ScottL> yeah
<holstein> i made https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rakarrack/+bug/691937
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 691937 in rakarrack (Ubuntu) "bug report for backporting" [Undecided,In progress]
<holstein> not sure how to file it against lucid-backports
<holstein> or more acurately, im not sure what that means...
<holstein> i think thats clear though right?
<ScottL> lol, i had been meaning to clear up that part of the instructions
<holstein> maybe, i should know the lingo though
<holstein> for a minute, i was on the bug squad
<holstein> too much to take on for me
<ScottL> look for "Also affects project" and click the green cross icon
<ScottL> then you should input "lucid-backports"
<holstein> yeah, that worked 
<holstein> ScottL: OK
<holstein> im on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsHowToHelp#Change Details
<holstein> and i have the changelog file open
<ScottL> holstein, okay
<holstein> ;)
<ScottL> just follow the instruction and use the example at the end as a go by
<ScottL> but REMEMBER, the changelog file is highly formatted
<holstein> yeah, i think i'l read over that for a while
<holstein> until it makes sense...
<ScottL> holstein, just keep in mind two main things:
<ScottL> 1. the file is made to contain specific information
<ScottL> 2. it is formatted to be machine readable
<holstein> yeah, i dont want to bork it
<ScottL> holstein, this what i had done for rakarrack changelog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/545387/
<ScottL> mind you, this isn't all of it, just the last two entries - don't erase the other parts!
<ScottL> the ppa1 will be removed later on when it is actually put into the backports repository
<ScottL> well, actually the '~ppa1' will be removed (forgot to include the tilde)
<holstein> ScottL: thanks for that
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-12-19
<detrate> anyone here familiar with audio interference caused by the ethernet cable?
<detrate> after a system crash, I rebooted to find I have noise interference when I browse the internet...
<detrate> _really_ annoying
<detrate> I'm using a Audio 2 DJ external USB sound card... so it's a little difficult to separate them from each other
<detrate> what gets me, is I didn't have this problem prior. I'm on ubuntu 10.10 with ALSA for sound
<holstein> ive heard wierd things when moving a mouse before
<holstein> weird*
<holstein> usually with just internal cards
<holstein> could it be that the USB card and the network adapter share IRQ
<detrate> yeah, I'd expect internal more
<holstein> cat /proc/interrupts
<detrate> can I explicitly define which IRQ they use?
<holstein> i think you can hack that somehow
<holstein> i usually look in the bios
<holstein> and if the settings arent there, i get really bored of trying to fix it ;)
<holstein> its never been something i needed to worry with on a production box
<holstein> detrate: you dont have the noise when the network is disabled?
<detrate> I don't really know what I'm looking at here: http://pastebin.ca/2023714
<detrate> correct
<detrate> if I unplug the ethernet
<detrate> it's clear as day
<holstein> this is with JACK running?
<detrate> no, alsa
<holstein> looks to me like
<holstein>  44:     181517     181453     180936     181545   PCI-MSI-edge      eth0
<holstein> your network is off by itself
<holstein> detrate: i would say, try JACK
<holstein> thats the pro level tool we have
<holstein> maybe just in the spirit of trouble-shooting
<detrate> how is that going to effect my other applications?
<detrate> I use this machine for many thing
<detrate> s
<holstein> well, it wont do anything to try it
<holstein> JACK is there
<detrate> alright
<holstein> you just run it when you want to use it
<holstein> and stop it when you dont
<detrate> do I need to restart or just logout to get it functional after install?
<holstein> depends
<holstein> not really a 'this is how to use JACK' type of thing
<holstein> depends on the hardware
<detrate> ah
<holstein> and config
<holstein> detrate: why did the system crash?
<detrate> because maintainence replaced my refridgerator and apparently left the power off for over 10 minutes because my UPS can last about 10 minutes
<holstein> hehe
<holstein> well, i would think that is un-related then
<holstein> hmmm
<holstein> i would probably get a 10.04 live CD
<holstein> and see if you can hear it then
<holstein> try and get the installed OS out o the equation
<holstein> make sure its not hardware related
<holstein> and try the JACK thing
<detrate> alright
<holstein> and go from there
<detrate> I can try the card on another computer, I know it's not the headphones / speakers
<holstein> AH
<holstein> yeah, that would be a good call too
<detrate> I already testd them on the internal audio
<detrate> and the ethernet is what's causing the interference
<detrate> so weird and annoying..
<detrate> I just want to listen to nice clean music :(
<holstein> no interference with the internal card?
<detrate> not at all
<holstein> yeah, i would do that first then
<holstein> test the USB on another box
<detrate> try the card on another computer?
<detrate> yeah
<detrate> makes sense
<holstein> maybe it didnt like being shut down?
<detrate> if the card is wrecked, the building manager is getting a piece of my mind
<holstein> detrate: no dought
<holstein> a piece of mind, and a bill ;)
<detrate> yeah, it's clean on the other computer
<detrate> so soundcard isn't ruined, that's good
<detrate> doesn't help me understand the "software" issue though
<detrate> and fwiw, I run the ethernet cable through a surge protector too
<detrate> (I tested it direct and still same issue)
<holstein> detrate: how about the USB on the computer?
<holstein> if you boot a live CD and test it
<detrate> tried every slot
<detrate> no I haven't done the livecd test yet
<detrate> I have to burn one first
<holstein> you could take the operating system out of the loop
<detrate> not sure I have one handy
<holstein> its a stretch anyways
<detrate> yeah, I feel like it's either config or bios at this point
<detrate> maybe I should check the bios first
<detrate> though, I feel like my clock would be reset if something in there changed
<holstein> and i cant imagine what setting would caust that noise
<holstein> from the bios settings
<detrate> ifinternetisonmakenoise=1
<detrate> definitely feels like the USB power isn't "clean"
<holstein> lol
<detrate> omg gross, I restarted and it's ALL static now
<holstein> interesting
<holstein> i have a laptop like that though
<holstein> the USB is borked bad
<holstein> i have a little USB maudio transit
<detrate> hmm
<detrate> I have a usb hub I can try but I don't think that will help anything
<holstein> and i screwed around with it for about 20 minutes before i went to another box
<holstein> the machine came to me like that
<holstein> SO i have no idea what caused it
<holstein> its got other little issues here and there too
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-12-12
<ScottL> micahg, i grossly underestimated the work involved in updating the packages
<micahg> heh, that's ok, you can do it little by little
<ScottL> i had been focusing solely on the specific changes needed to transform the xubuntu packages to ubuntu studio packages but forgot about all the packaging changes as well
<ScottL> please do not wait on me at this point to update the meta package if it is acutely needed
<ScottL> otherwise i can certainly commit to having this completed, reviewed, and tested by this friday
<micahg> yeah, we can reupload then, I just want to get this package built on armhf (-meta), I thought you were making seed changes to the apps
<ScottL> oh, yes, i was planning on doing that as well
<ScottL> but i will need to update the seeds for the -settings changes as well though
<micahg> can we get that part done tonight?  no big deal either way
<micahg> it's fine you can do everything later this week
<ScottL> micahg, i probably need to wait until the -settings are changes, otherwise it will probably break a few things (like text editor and file manager)
<ScottL> s/changes/changed
<micahg> is anything broken ATM that needs a -meta change?
<ScottL> nothing _too_ serious at this point
<ScottL> missing a text editor and a bug report on the network manager
<ScottL> but both should be fixed with the -settings update
<micahg> heh, ok
 * ScottL was busy making jelly sandwich sans crust cut into one rectangle and two squares for son...he's pretty specifically demanding :P
<ScottL> micahg, i'm really sorry to have made you wait and then need more time
<micahg> ScottL: not a problem (I'm not using it anyways :))
<micahg> I'll upload later tonight, no worried
<micahg> *worries
<micahg> TheMuso: any idea why core-dev con't commit to ubuntustudio branches anymore?
<micahg> or were they never able to
 * micahg needs to update the seed before uploading...
<micahg> anyone up with commit access to the ubuntustudio-dev repo?
<micahg> s/repo/branches/
<astraljava> micahg: Yes.
<micahg> astraljava: can I give you a merge for the seed branch?
<astraljava> micahg: Absolutely.
<micahg> astraljava: https://code.launchpad.net/~micahg/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.precise-fix-ttf-to-fonts-renames/+merge/85302
<astraljava> micahg: On it. Just one thing; is there an easier way to merge this, rather than merging locally and then pushing? I mean, does LP provide some functionality for this?
<micahg> astraljava: no, you have to merge locally then push AFAIK
<micahg> you can merge directly into the checkout, you don't need to checkout both branches separately
<astraljava> micahg: Ok, thanks. Work got in the way. I'll get back on this within 15 minutes.
<micahg> astraljava: thanks, whenever, I can always do it in the morning if I don't get to it before bed
<astraljava> micahg: Ok, merged and pushed. Doesn't show up in LP yet, for some reason.
<micahg> it takes up to 2 min to scan teh branch I think
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> Oh, crap.
<micahg> what?
<astraljava> I thought it was updated, but apparently wasn't.
<astraljava> Forgot to do it now.
<astraljava> I need to revert that.
<astraljava> I wonder why it let me do that, in the first place, though.
<astraljava> I thought git wouldn't, but could be wrong.
<micahg> do you have --overwrite set somewhere?
<astraljava> I hope not.
<astraljava> meh... revert does nothing.
<astraljava> Gotta head up to #bzr
<micahg> astraljava: you have to uncommit and revert
<astraljava> micahg: Ahh... okay let me try that.
<astraljava> micahg: Okay, uncommit gives me a command "bzr pull . -r revid:astraljava@kapsi.fi...", I use that to restore the situation prior to merge push?
<micahg> astraljava: no, just revert
<astraljava> OK.
<micahg> that command will repull the commit that you uncommitted
<astraljava> Well now it complains that the commit doesn't exist in branch anymore.
<astraljava> Plain revert?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> what's the issue now?
<astraljava> No, sorry, I was trying to revert that commit id, but plain works.
<astraljava> Do I need to commit the revert, or can I just update now?
<micahg> astraljava: just update
<astraljava> micahg: Well, it seems to have forgotten Colin's commit anyway. :(
<astraljava> Damn, this was not fun.
<micahg> ah right, the branch is there, but hidden, you might want to ask in #bzr
<micahg> astraljava: or you can bzr pull my branch
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah, I asked on #bzr, let's see if they come up with a solution. If not, I'll use your branch.
<astraljava> Sorry for the mess.
<astraljava> I need to work on some safety features, cause I mostly work on git, and it doesn't let this sort of thing happen.
<micahg> astraljava: bzr doesn't  let you either by default, maybe your config is set to overwrite
<astraljava> micahg: Where is that config? In $HOME/.bzr?
<micahg> .bazaar I think
<knome> astraljava, find that at the indian bazaar of oulu
<astraljava> knome: Good idea! I'm craving for some indian food anyway.
<knome> :)
<knome> haha
<knome> i was wondering what the store owners looked like if you asked them "where is the bazaar config file?"
<astraljava> "It is IMPERATIVE I don't have overwrite anywhere!"
<astraljava> I might get my face stuffed with naan bread.
<knome> that would be nice, actually
<astraljava> Yeah, just would have to ask for some garlic butter and cheese to go with that.
<knome> they probably have some kind of "cheese" in it already: http://wulffmorgenthaler.com/2011/12/11/
<astraljava> Is opening that link gonna ruin my appetite for naan forever?
<knome> no. cheese.
<astraljava> Oh, even worse.
<knome> ha
<astraljava> micahg: It should be fixed now.
<astraljava> micahg: All you have to do is use pull --overwrite the next time, as otherwise it'll complain about diverged branches.
<astraljava> That goes for everybody, though.
<astraljava> Again, sorry for the mess.
<micahg> astraljava: it shouldn't
<micahg> astraljava: right you did it fine :)
<micahg> no conflicts
<micahg> the reason is since I still had the original commits in the proper order in my branch, when you pulled it, it restored the history
<astraljava> Yep, all thanks to mgz on #bzr.
<astraljava> Yeah. Well, now I know how to fix that if it happens again.
<micahg> since I'm reluctant to do a -meta upload right before bed, I'll do this in the mornin
<micahg> astraljava: thanks for the merge
<astraljava> micahg: Sure, no prob. I don't think we're that much in a hurry.
<astraljava> Thanks for your changes!
 * micahg will ask about commit rights in the morning
<astraljava> micahg: Who is granting them?
<astraljava> So what's people using for auto-tagging of mp3s and oggs these days? I used to use EasyTag, but it's not in the archives anymore.
<scott-work> good morning
<knome> hey
<scott-work> hi knome, i haven't really done anything on the website for the past week
<knome> no problem
<scott-work> i expect that to continue this week as i'm working through the theming right now
<knome> haven't had time to think that either
<scott-work> but this coming weekend i really want to make a major push to get it into some sort of "completed" state
<scott-work> or close thereof
<knome> yeah, would be good
<knome> i was just looking at http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> ugh
<scott-work> by "completed" i mean that pages exist and the content is in them and have made a real attempt to make it look nice
<scott-work> knome: do you have a lot of actions yet to complete?
<knome> 9
<scott-work> oh, i see
<scott-work> lot's of read
<scott-work> errr, red
<knome> the whole xubuntu team more...
<knome> yeah, but most of the red action items are trivial
<knome> but still
<scott-work> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
<knome> i'd like to see green under the baseline
<knome> looks much better
<scott-work> ours isn't too bad and i need to update a few items as "DONE" as well
<knome> though you have a smaller "inprogress"-state
<scott-work> astraljava:  funny thing happened after teh meeting yesterday, i get an email from the libre graphics people saying that they _would_ be getting information to me about graphic design :)
<astraljava> scott-work: Excellent news!
<scott-work> astraljava: it is!  i'm quite surprised actually and happy/relieved
<falktx_> hey quadrispro
<quadrispro> ehy falktx_ !
<quadrispro> hi all
<falktx_> quadrispro: got a minute?
<astraljava> Hi Alessio!
<quadrispro> falktx_, just a minute yes
<quadrispro> hi astraljava !
<falktx_> quadrispro: I release my tools (Cadence) some days ago, and I already have a basic debian folder set-up for the PPAs. Any chance it makes into Debian?
<falktx_> UbuntuStudio would surely appreciate it
<falktx_> quadrispro: the tools are in http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications , check Cadence and below
<falktx_> quadrispro: my (crappy) debian sources are here - https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa/+files/cadence_0.1.0%7Ealpha1%2Bgit20111206-0%7Elucid3.tar.gz
<quadrispro> havinng a look, hold on :)
<falktx_> sure, I'll be here for a while
<micahg> astraljava: ScottL and TheMuso are team admins
<astraljava> Oh okay.
<micahg> scott-work: would it be possible for me to get commit access to the ubuntu studio branches?  also, is there a reason that core-dev doesn't have access?
<scott-work> micahg: absolutely you can have commit access, although i am unsure how except to add you to the ubuntustudio-dev team
<micahg> scott-work: yeah, that'll do it
<scott-work> i think the core-dev's didn't want the spam from the ubuntustudio-dev team bug reports for the package set
 * micahg tried to update a seed last night
<scott-work> ^^^ that's pure speculation as i seem to recall some email from colin about this
<micahg> scott-work: ah, ok
<shnatsel> Launchpad needs more muting options for sure.
<scott-work> micahg: i can add you right now to the team, would you like me to do this?
<micahg> scott-work: sure, thanks, (doesn't have to be right this second)
<scott-work> micahg: done
<micahg> scott-work: thanks
<scott-work> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-12-13
 * abogani waves all
<abogani> FYI I have just updated -lowlatency and -realtime kernels.
<astraljava> Hey Alessio! That's great news!
<abogani> astraljava: Did you have found a good replacement for EasyTag?
<astraljava> abogani: Not yet. I'm looking into a few. exfalso and kid3 I found so far.
<abogani> astraljava: Could you let me know when you found something useful? Thanks!
<astraljava> abogani: Most certainly. :)
<scott-work> good morning
<scott-work> abogani: i got a response from steve which basically said we should package now and not wait on him
<scott-work> abogani: so, after i get changes made to -defualt-settings and -artwork and pushed to bzr i will focus on the kernel packaging and get it into revu
<scott-work> TheMuso: ^^^^
<scott-work> i would expect this to happen within two weeks considering other tasks i already have lined up as well
<abogani> scott-work: Ok.
<scott-work> we are now at 33% on the burn down for our precise blueprints:  http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio.html
<scott-work> yay!
<scott-work> when i get the theme stuff done it will also increase the percentage complete quite a bit as well
<astraljava> abogani: Got a tip from a friend, and 'picard' seems to be quite a good replacement for 'easytag'.
<astraljava> abogani: I did try to quickly build 'easytag' from sources, as I noticed somewhere that the project has come alive again, but alas, there are some problems with the autogen.sh, and it was at work during the office hours, so didn't pay much attention to it.
<astraljava> abogani: Mind you, 'picard' seems to only work with MusicBrainz, so it's not perfect. Need to look for other options still, preferably something that works with other engines as well.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-12-14
<abogani> astraljava: Thanks!
<astraljava> abogani: I noticed a few weird quirks with it, though. It sometimes refuses to write the tags. Sometimes you have to go over the file a couple of times. But the lookup works fairly often.
<scott-work> good morning
<astraljava> Hey Scott.
<scott-work> how are you this morning (or early afternoon) astraljava ?
<scott-work> hopefully i get the -default-settings and -artwork package more or less done * this week and move onto website, kernel, and livedvd next :)
<scott-work> * this is the first pass and i _know_ there will be issues to address, tweaks to make, and further improvements
<astraljava> Felt really sick when I woke up, so working from home today. And you?
<scott-work> i must be going through a manic phase and i'm trying to do everything all at once today
<scott-work> sorry you are feeling unwell today :(
<astraljava> Thanks. At least I have VPN access, so I don't have to call in sick.
<scott-work> there is good talk on the jack-devel ML about dropping current jack1/jack2 and developing a new implementation...that's bloody exciting news!
<astraljava> I hope it's not again the curse of the open source... "I don't like this, let's do a new one!" We have so many implementations of so many different things.
<scott-work> astraljava: this is paul and stephane talking (who i believe account for a majority of the development) and if they can agree on a new implementation then i think it would be the best outcome
<scott-work> this should eliminate all the goofy "do i use jack1 or jack2? and how can i make them coexist as dependencies for ardour, et al?" problems
<astraljava> Oh okay.
<micahg> scott-work: you shouldn't have a problem using nautilus if you want
<scott-work> micahg: you read the mail ;)   that is true and we had been using it but i was just worried about pulling thunar out of the seeds and -default-settings package
<scott-work> i don't want to hold up the rest of the -default-settings and -artwork changes to do this
<micahg> scott-work: you could have both until you can extract thunar (set nautilus as the default file manager)
<scott-work> there will be a point later on when the seeds will need to be updated for the work flows or live dvd or somethign and i hope to coincide the changes around that time to minmize the meta updates
<scott-work> micahg: very, very good point!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-12-15
<ScottL> micahg, i am presuming that at some point i will need to add "Conflicts: ..." into the new ubuntustudio packages to keep from pulling in some of the older and now unused packages
<ScottL> for example, ubuntustudio-theme will no longer be needed, or ubuntustudio-menu, or ubuntustudio-icon-theme, etc
<micahg> right, conflicts unless you're using transitional packages (which might help for LTS -> LTS upgrades if you support them or upgrades in general)
<micahg> if you're using transitional packages, you'll want a versioned breaks/replaces when you switch to the transitional package
<ScottL> by the way, i will be using your suggestion about including nautilus and thunar together for the time being
<ScottL> i'm not sure i am get my head around how to do the transitional package correctly right now
<ScottL> i'm not a fan of upgrades in general, especially for LTS -> LTS as they alway seems problematic
<ScottL> however, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to accommodate them
<ScottL> micahg, i am familiar with transitional packages, i did one for transitioning from audio seed to audio-common, audio-generation, and audio-recording
<ScottL> but i would appreciate a quick overview on what i might need to do
<ScottL> i would presume that i need to make updates for the current packages that will no longer be needed, but make them depend on the new packages
<ScottL> which will be a little weird as something like six packages are resolved into two packages now and i'm not exactly sure how that will be structured
<ScottL> i'm also going to be a little unsure about the versioned breaks/replaces at this point
<ScottL> let me finish mapping the changes as they are now and then i should have a better feeling about this
<micahg> ScottL: the transitional packages are just binary entries in debian/control in the source that's taking over
<ScottL> micahg, but is it using the same binary name as the old, deprecated binaries?
<micahg> yes, that's how it's transitional
<ScottL> right
<ScottL> but with a newer version
<micahg> well, versions usually come from the source package
<ScottL> oh, yeah
<ScottL> but won't this be kinda weird?  some of the current packages aren't aligned with version numbers
<ScottL> i know that one of the currently used packages is at something like version 40, but the rest are at versions like 0.20
<ScottL> when i do my final mapping of packages and functions i'll include version numbers too
<micahg> ScottL: in that case, Conflicts/Replaces might be fine, let's see what the various upgrade paths are, then we can decide
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-12-16
<cyphermox> ScottL: I saw your comment on bug 901945; what changes are being done to networking?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901945 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "network manager applet doesn't work in precise" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901945
<astraljava> cyphermox: The OP speaks about the icon not even showing, which is understandable, as no NetworkManager is installed in precise, yet. Thus, no nm-applet.
<cyphermox> why would there be no NM installed?
<astraljava> cyphermox: However, Xubuntu does install it, and I believe scott-work | ScottL meant that we might include it in the future.
<cyphermox> ok
<astraljava> cyphermox: In the past people thought it hindered the real-time capability.
<cyphermox> oh, right, it wasn't in the seed or something
<astraljava> cyphermox: I think it needs to be tested whether it still does.
<cyphermox> now I remember and get it, sorry, I got confused :)
<astraljava> np
<cyphermox> astraljava: thanks
<astraljava> You're welcome.
<cyphermox> astraljava: I maintain NM in Ubuntu, let me know if it happens to be an issue for real-time, and if you have ideas on how to fix it, I'll be happy to help out
<astraljava> cyphermox: I don't know whether it's still an issue, but I do understand the fundamental problem.
<cyphermox> ok
<astraljava> cyphermox: network-manager-gnome didn't poll wireless networks periodically, thus it was chosen.
<astraljava> cyphermox: NM does, however. Whether that remains an issue performance-wise with the processing power having risen dramatically over the past couple of years, that's another thing altogether.
<astraljava> Personally, I'm from the school of thought that you shouldn't have networking enabled if you're doing something mission-critical, but of course, there are workflows where you _need_ network for some operations.
<cyphermox> right
<scott-work> astraljava: cyphermox , hi
<cyphermox> but then wifi might not be the best choice
<scott-work> astraljava: so what is different from what we shipped in oneiric?
 * scott-work is looking at seeds now
<cyphermox> and you can work around some of the issues by setting it up manually, which can let you avoid scanning (wpasupplicant settings)
<scott-work> astraljava: oh, is this an issue derived from the transition to xfce?  meaning we had nm-applet in the gnome panel before and don't have an the applet in the panel under xfce currently?
<scott-work> if so, then i AM fixing this currently :-D
<astraljava> scott-work: Nothing yet. But if we wanna streamline our seeds with Xubuntu's, then I suppose we should test how NM fares in actual workflow.
<scott-work> astraljava: i thought we were already shipping network manager with nmapplet during natty, plus onieric (which began the transition and might be "broken" too)
<astraljava> scott-work: We [a|we]re shipping network-manager-gnome, not the one that provides NetworkManager (and thus nm-applet).
<astraljava> scott-work: Hmm?
<scott-work> AH
<scott-work> yes, you are right
<scott-work> but we moved to network manager i thought
<scott-work> shit
<scott-work> nevermind, it was gnome-network-admin or similar that we were shipping
<astraljava> Sorry, I am confused.
<astraljava> It's actually the other way around.
<astraljava> And then it's a bug if nm-applet isn't shown.
<scott-work> okay, in maverick we shipped gnome-network-admin:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.maverick/view/head:/desktop
<scott-work> in natty we moved to network-manager-gnome:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty/view/head:/desktop
<scott-work> this was because -network-admin sucked for people using wireless (presumably on laptops)
<astraljava> I think it wasn't wireless, but rather the PPPoE connections (or something like that).
<scott-work> astraljava: are you saying that  network-manager-gnome does NOT pull in nmapplet?
<astraljava> scott-work: No. It does. I was wrong.
 * astraljava hangs head in shame
<scott-work> lol
<scott-work> so for natty they were both there and probably shows up in the indicator applet/plugin
<scott-work> i don't remember for oneiric
<scott-work> i'm going to check the build logs for precise to see if nmapplet is shipping currently
<astraljava> It should show up in oneiric, but I am not sure whether I had to fix something on my setup, it's been ages since it was installed.
<scott-work> is this it?  gnome-netstatus-applet
<astraljava> It used to be /usr/bin/nm-applet, but it could be anything in precise. I haven't followed.
<scott-work> but you say it's built by gnome-network-manager?
<scott-work> cyphermox: does network manager build the nmapplet?
<cyphermox> no, the source package is called network-manager-applet
<scott-work> cyphermox: you said that "no networkmanager is shipped in precise"  can you clarify that please?
<scott-work> i'm afraid i'm not extensibly knowledgeable about the various network managers
<scott-work> what _should_ we be using?
<cyphermox> there's not a huge number of options, really
<scott-work> this is what we are currently shipping (from the seeds): gnome-netstatus-applet
<astraljava> scott-work: No, network-manager-gnome.
<cyphermox> what's in main, supported, etc. is network-manager/network-manager-gnome
<scott-work> scratch what i posted last 
<scott-work> (avahi-autoipd)              # IPv4 link-local interface configuration support  15 	   * (network-manager-gnome)	# replacing gnome-network-admin due to usability  16 	  # Copied from Xubuntu  17 	   * (network-manager-pptp)  18 	   * (network-manager-pptp-gnome)
<astraljava> scott-work: Pay attention now! :)
<scott-work> lol
<scott-work> okay, network-manager/network-manager-gnome :)
<scott-work> okay, we are currently shipping network-manager-gnome
<scott-work> cyphermox: does this pull in the applet automatically?
<cyphermox> network-manager-gnome *is* the applet
<astraljava> HE SHOOTS, HE SCOOOOOOREEEEESS!!!!
<cyphermox> :)
<scott-work> oh
<astraljava> scott-work: dpkg -L network-manager-gnome|grep nm-applet
<scott-work> at work on windows machine :(
<scott-work> does the applet actually do handling of the netwrok, or just report the status?
<astraljava> That's no excuse. Surely you have ssh connection to your home box?
<cyphermox> it depends on network-manager, so it's kind of weird if somebody says that the icon isn't showing
<scott-work> AH
<cyphermox> astraljava: tbh I was expecting that the bug was really an issue with a glib change or something
<cyphermox> (or gtk)
<astraljava> cyphermox: Right. Well, gotta investigate over the weekend. I'll install it on another drive on my workhorse.
<scott-work> so avahi-autoipd, network-manager-pptp-gnome, or network-manager-pptp are not a network manager?
<scott-work> again, my ignorance is showing
<cyphermox> astraljava: I'm still working on an update of network-manager for precise, it's waiting for an update of libnl3
<cyphermox> once that is done I'll start fixing up NM, and then the applet
<scott-work> looking at this it looks like we ship the same as ubuntu desktop:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~utlemming/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.precise/view/head:/desktop
<scott-work> my original thought was that we _were_ shipping a network-manger but either were not shipping the applet or somehow had screwed up the panel to not show the applet
<scott-work> but from what cyphermox has said it sounds like we might not be shipping a network-manager?
<cyphermox> no, that's just what astraljava was suggesting was happening, but it clearly can't be the case
<cyphermox> it could be *not running*, but it's a depends of nm-applet
<scott-work> i see in launchpad that the source package "network-manager-applet" yields the "network-manager-gnome" binary - this is starting to fill in some holes for me
<scott-work> and i see in the control file that network-admin-gnome provides the nm-applet
<scott-work> so it would seem that since our seeds ships network-admin-gnome that we should have what we need (updates aside), is this correct cyphermox ?
<cyphermox> because it ships network-manager-gnome; you have what you need
<cyphermox> I'll start setting up a system with ubuntu-studio or xubuntu to give this a shot, it's very unusual
<scott-work> thank you, both for the answers and for testing
<astraljava> cyphermox: If you don't want to do that, give me approx. 10 hours, when I get home from company "Pikkujoulut" I can install it and report back.
<cyphermox> astraljava: bah, no worries
<cyphermox> seems this might actually be the installer's fault
<scott-work> build logs show that it was put on the disc
<cyphermox> with network, it might be writing to /etc/network/interfaces , then NM doesn't manage the interface
<astraljava> cyphermox: That's weird. But I'll admit I have never installed using the wireless interface. Gotta give it a go, really.
<cyphermox> aye
<astraljava> I must admit, I'm not a very patriotic person. Finns should even hate our western neighbors like plague, but on my last.fm listing, six of my TOP 8 bands come from Sweden, with 5 first spots. Then there's one dutch band, and one norwegian.
<scott-work> astraljava: me either, i always use desktops which are wired :/
<astraljava> scott-work: Earlier I always used alternate installer anyway, and it's always a pain to setup the wireless with that. So I wired all laptops too.
<scott-work> going with the live dvd later on should help with this as well, i would think. at least from a user's perspective
<astraljava> Definitely.
<astraljava> Ok, off to the xmas party. See ya later.
<len> I just looked through the back logs with respect to NM.
<len> US does have NM installed by default and it does work.
<len> however, it does not work as it should because of the install process
<len> This seems to be a problem with the alternate installs as xubuntu has the same problem.
<len> if I install with no network connection... that is I make the network connection fail, it works as I think it should.
<len> If during install I setup a wireless port. Then NM can't manage that port because the setup info I gave has been added to the init.d network setup.
<len> This seems to be a problem with the base install, not UbuntuStudio.
<len> So don't "fix" anything yet.
<len> Ok, off to do another install and try removing wlan from init.d files.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-12-17
<OutOfControl> Hello all
<acegirl> hi i want to be a web des
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-12-18
<astraljava> NetworkManager is so dumb. If the router resets, it won't re-establish the connection. Now I recall why I didn't have problems with my Studio box, cause I removed it and set it statically in /etc/network/interfaces
<micahg> astraljava: that would be a bug, please file one
<astraljava> micahg: Yep, and it's only on a wired connection. Wireless works fine.
<micahg> astraljava: these are the types of things we want fixed for 12.04
<micahg> astraljava: if you could get cyphermox a reproducible test case, that would be great
<astraljava> micahg: Will talk to h[im|er].
<len> astraljava: I did the same thing on my desktop. I would not have noticed that NM wasn't working if it wasn't for my netbook.
<len> I would guess that NM would be fine for a static connection even with a router reset. It is the DHCP stuff that gets fouled. How does the wireless stuff realize the connect has gone south?
<len> I think that is a part of the wireless card driver. The eth drivers don't have that because they expect dhcpcd to handle that, but that one just waits till the contract time is up and reapplies. It would need to ping something once in a while to see if the router is still there.
<len> It is interesting that I put my desktop machine together for music. and the netbook was for everything else. However, I have been using the netbook for testing the isos with a 40Gusb drive because it is convenient and I am getting ideas how a portable computer like that might be very useful for music too even though the sound card is not too good.
<len> Part of the problem with that is pulse audio doesn't seem to set up right. The mic sounds really bad, but I think a lot of that is that pulse has chosen to set up the mic gain for capture level instead of the input level.
<len> So the preamp is at full (noisy, noisy) and the attenuator is set low. I will look at this more fully on my next test install as that would be a bug.
<micahg> len: like I said these are the small things that we should get fixed for 12.04, and hi BTW :)
<len> Hi. Yeah, that is why I am trying to test often and as many things as I can.
<len> The apt stuff has problems with the usb stick install too. If I want to add something like the plugin meta after install. Apt can't find the usb stick... it just keeps saying put the install cd in... even though I originally installed with the stick.
<len> Anyway, gotta eat... Buy now.
<micahg> please file a bug :)
<len> Aye.
<astraljava> I'm not buying.
<knome> astraljava, this is not an auctioning channel
<astraljava> Well, tell that to len.
<knome> len() of what?
<astraljava> man len
<knome> nel, nam?
<astraljava> Nelli is pretty nam, yeah, but what's that got to do with anything?
<knome> http://www.nelliportaali.fi/V is eww
<astraljava> Thanks for the warning, I'll pass.
<knome> well it's a shared library search.
<knome> had to use that at AMK :(
<astraljava> That's not yum. But it's not eww either. You tricked me! Naughty!
<knome> hah
<knome> well apt is not yum either, so why would amk be?
<astraljava> Granted, you have a point there.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-12-10
<zequence> Need to get a live system working, and so far whatever I try, there's always something putting a stop to things
<Len-nb> zequence, LMMS added to "generation" in seeds.
<Len-nb> We'll see how it goes
<Len-nb> micahg, besides -look, ubuntustudio-icon-theme and ubuntustudio-default-settings need to be uploaded.
<Len-nb> The changes in one match the other.
<Len-nb> zequence, if our ISO builds with lmms, then we will need to generate a *.desktop file to go with it.
<Len-nb> zequence, I think that is my studio work for the day (week?)
<micahg> Len-nb: ACK
<Len-nb> micahg, thanks
<zequence> Len-nb: I find that our categories don't make much sense
<zequence> Wouldn't say lmms is well categorized under generation, as it is a seuqencer
<Len-nb> It is where qtractor is.
<Len-nb> I would like to have fewer audio metas
<zequence> But, I can see there's other categories within audio that are used strangely as well
<zequence> Yea
<zequence> One would really be enough
<Len-nb> Or one pro and one not?
<zequence> If we want to use subcategories, we can add those in the seed source, for reference
<zequence> You're thinking about standard desktop audio vs pro audio?
<zequence> Perhaps standard desktop stuff should be in its own meta
<Len-nb> Standard desktop should already be in desktop
<Len-nb> Maybe one would be fine
<zequence> Yea, that is probably the best one. If someone uses another desktop, they will already have a standard set of desktop audio apps
<Len-nb> What about things like jack for video?
<zequence> That should be a dependency in video
<Len-nb> I think video depends on a basic audio meta now.
<zequence> Audacity only from what I can see
<Len-nb> no it doesn't, jack should be there as there are some things that use jack for timing.
<zequence> Perhaps we should leave this for later
<zequence> We need to thoroughly go through each workflow
<Len-nb> we have 5 audio metas.
<zequence> I think at least we could put all the audio metas together for now
<zequence> There's a lot of stuff we could improve for all metas
<Len-nb> the name ffmpeg should be replaced
<Len-nb> It is now av-something
<zequence> Well, that is one of those details that someone going thoroughly through video might want to look at
<zequence> You could add workitems about that
<Len-nb> libav now
<zequence> ffmpeg does install the av stuff though
<Len-nb> Ya, but that will not last forever
<zequence> This package contains the deprecated ffmpeg program. This package also serves as a transitional package to libav-tools. Users are advised to use avconv from the libav-tools package instead of ffmpeg
<zequence> I'm hoping this kernel build actually get me somehwere. Been working on getting to work for two days now. That's no way of getting things done
<Len-nb> I gave up on kernels soon as I could :)
<zequence> Yea, well. I really need one that I can actually use for something
<Len-nb> being bale to use premade kernels is nice
<zequence> That's where I'm out of luck
<Len-nb> *able
<zequence> There's not a single one I can use right now, save the 9.10 realtime kernel
<zequence> I'm not that eager to install puredyne in 2012
<Len-nb> That works at all or just for one task?
<zequence> That works at a reasonable latency
<Len-nb> Right
<zequence> The Debian rt is quite nice, but there's a bug in the system. If I was not busy trying to find something that works, I might actually have time to figure out what it is
<Len-nb> Is that a 2.6*
<zequence> Shuts down an irq after a while. In this case, the firewire device
<zequence> Debian Wheezy. 3.2
<zequence> Same as Precise
<Len-nb> (2.6 in 9.10)
<zequence> Yea
<zequence> 9.10 was the last Ubuntu to contain a -rt kernel
<Len-nb> That is disappointing
<zequence> linux-lowlatency won't work, unless I install Ubuntu 10.10
<zequence> And there's no garantee that is up to par either
<zequence> I wish I had done some cyclic tests on the -lowlatency back then
<Len-nb> So what changed from 2.6 to 3*?
<zequence> Practical tests were giving wonderful results
<zequence> I built a 2.6.38 kernel on 12.10 recently, thinking I'd get better performance, but no
<Len-nb> Have some buffer sizes gone up?
<zequence> There's something outside the kernel that seems to affect the performance as well
<zequence> Or, I just don't have good enough testing data
<zequence> There was a weird time when we were testing -lowlatency during 10.10
<zequence> It was 2.6.37
<zequence> We were getting awesome results. All of us
<zequence> Then, a week later, or so. The same exact kernel, after a system update. Worse performance
<Len-nb> I wonder if something like upstart or dbus is a problem
<zequence> I don't know enough about the inner workings of linux in order to have a clue. But, if I can just get a 3.2 kernel working on Ubuntu without the irq bug that Debian suffers from, I can relax and start working on what I really should be doing, namely preparing a 1.0 version of the audio software that my band is to use for live gigs
<Len-nb> I wonder if the slackware audio distro has this problem.
<Len-nb> It is totally roll your own. compile everything.
<zequence> It is related to audio somehow. Only audio devices were getting borked
<zequence> But, it's not in the vanilla kernel. It's something Debian specific
<Len-nb> Is it the FW stack?
<zequence> This time it was. On another machine it was a pci audio device
<zequence> This time it was when using jack. the other time pulseaudio
<zequence> So, alsa
<zequence> er.. :P
<zequence> I'm getting tired now
<zequence> I don't know. Seems like there should be no connection at all when I think about it
<zequence> Just happened to be two audio devices both times
<Len-nb> just found this:
<Len-nb> jackd has to run with realtime priviledges. One way to do this on Slackware would
<Len-nb> be to use set_rlimits. Since 12.2 there's another way, though experimental. If
<Len-nb> you have a filesystem that supports posix capabilities (reiserfs does not), you
<Len-nb> can grant jackd the rights to run in realtime mode, even when started as normal user
<Len-nb> with the following command: setcap cap_ipc_lock,cap_sys_nice=ep /usr/bin/jackd
<Len-nb> zequence,  That sounds like it sets bits on the binary file itself.
<smartboyhw> What the...My newest dist-upgrade wants to remove ubuntustudio-desktop!!!!
<smartboyhw> Hey ttoine 
<ttoine> smartboyhw, hello
<ttoine> zequence, the ticket for emails is handled ! I just get the email notification
<ttoine> zequence, if the jetpack package cannot be installed, I have another way to share posts
<smartboyhw> ttoine, yes:D
<ttoine> smartboyhw, it means that like any other ubuntu flavour, we are a community !
<smartboyhw> ttoine, :D;D
<ttoine> smartboyhw, and I am happy, the delivery of my brand new VPS is this morning !
<smartboyhw> ttoine, :D
<ttoine> and my brand news VPS is delivered this morning !
 * ttoine feel happy this monday morning
<smartboyhw> :D
<zequence> ttoine: I did see that they put the ticket in queue, but still no email adresses from what I can tell
<smartboyhw> zequence, well at least they will do it:P
<ttoine> zequence, yes, but you can notice than it seems to be faster than for jetpack
<zequence> I think that's just coincidental
<zequence> Don't think they have many people working on those tickets
<zequence> I've been trying to get a well performing kernel all day tomorrow
<zequence> ttoine: Have you built an -rt with nvidia support?
<zequence> I'm getting awful results from cyclic testing, but finding out now that it doesn't tell you how well audio performs
<smartboyhw> zequence, uh I have -rt kernels here built, but without Nvidia support
<zequence> smartboyhw: Yes. That is the normal result, without patching either the linux source, or the nvidia source further
<smartboyhw> zequence, you mean http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7496 ?
<zequence> all day yesterday*
<zequence> smartboyhw: No
<smartboyhw> zequence, er? ( I don't use Nvidia anyway:P)
<zequence> Without nvidia proprietary drivers, you might get worse performance
<smartboyhw> zequence, so what you want is a -rt kernel with the "proprietary" drivers
<astraljava> smartboyhw: Probably a conflict with packages, the archives are fluxuating. Don't worry, try again later.
<ttoine> zequence, you may use the nouveau driver, no ?
<smartboyhw> astraljava, try again what?
<ttoine> with -rt kernel, the only good result I have ever had is on full Intel pc
<zequence> ttoine: Yes, but at a cost to performance
<astraljava> smartboyhw: dist-upgrade
<zequence> Funny enough though, I was getting bad results from cyclic testing, but no xruns at really low latency with my FW device
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ah:D
<ttoine> zequence, yes, for sure. but I was one of the first to use a rt kernel with Ubuntu, I guess with Ubuntu Edgy. It has always been special to use. I thank a lot Alession for his work !
<ttoine> zequence, what do you mean with "bad resulst from cyclic testing" ?
<zequence> ttoine: There's a test for determining latency, called cyclictest
<ttoine> ok
<zequence> But, it doesn't tell you how well your audio hardware will perform against the system of course
<ttoine> zequence, sorry, I am not very concentrated. I am playing with my new server
<zequence> I was getting exactly the same results from both -rt and -lowlatency on this machine, on 12.04
<zequence> Bad results from the cyclictest, that should give xruns
<zequence> But, no xruns
<zequence> Anyway, seems like I'm actually getting the performance I need now
<smartboyhw> Well anyway I will try to build a -rt kernel with the Ubuntu drivers, but I'll wait till 3.8 releases. There are no -rt patches for 3.7...
<zequence> Just need to start using the software and see how it goes
<zequence> jack2 1.9.9 is out. I'd expect it to appear in raring sometime soonish
<zequence> should hopefully be a lot more stable than previous version
<smartboyhw> zequence, Oh!
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work 
<scott-work> good morning smartboyhw 
<scott-work> zequence: ping
<zequence> scott-work: pong
<smartboyhw> Eh scott-work zequence you guys ping-ponged without any discussion?:?
<zequence> Len-nb: There's really only one thing I can think of which might need some consideration, when it comes to having only one audio meta
<zequence> Len-nb: plugins
<zequence> Either we find a way to make it easy for users to find "recommended" applications no matter what application they use with the plugins, or we add a ubuntustudio-audio-extra meta (which could include a lot more than audio plugins)
<zequence> Sorry, "recommended" plugins
<ttoine> gmail's down...
<ttoine> I hope it is not because Canonical was setting up our emails address ;-)
<zequence> That's rare
<ttoine> good evening ;-)
<Len-nb> zequence, whats with im-switch/im-config conflicts? It looks like one depends on the other. Has one been upgraded and the other not?
<Len-nb> zequence, ^^ to do with ISO builds.
<micahg> needs a seed change/meta upload
<micahg> same that xubuntu did
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-12-11
<Len-nb> micahg, thank you, taking a look now.
<Len-nb> micahg, commited and pushed. Ready for meta upload.
<Len-nb> (and whatever steps in between)
<micahg> Len-nb: ACK, will try to get to that one tonight
<Len-nb> Thank you
<micahg> Len-nb: there were some other changes, (add lmms, musecore; remove blender)
<micahg> are there any bugs to close?  and are these ok?
<Len-nb> I didn't realize we removed blender... oh ya it wasn't bulding a while back.
<Len-nb> I don't think there were bug numbers with them though.
<micahg> ok, so I'll upload as is then
<micahg> meta uploaded
<Len-nb> Thank you micahg 
<len-dt> scott-work, we removed blender from seeds... it was broken?
<len-dt> Has any wark been done to see why?
<len-dt> zequence, ^^
<zequence> len-dt: It made the ISO build fail earlier
<zequence> Could have been fixed by now, don't know
<zequence> Think someone was on it
<zequence> python related
<len-dt> I guess we should find out... though video editing is not my thing really. It seems to me blender was a pretty important part of our video workflow.
<zequence> I'm not doing anything for at least one more week :)
<zequence> I'm getting ready for a 1.0 version of inc-machine, the software we'll be using with our band
<zequence> Doing that all day and night pretty mucgh
<smartboyhw> len-dt, what the? I was trying to get blender 2.64a in the main archives now:P
<smartboyhw> But don't know why we need to remove it from seeds
<zequence> smartboyhw: read above
<micahg> smartboyhw: blender should go though Debian
<smartboyhw> micahg, oh no:P 
<smartboyhw> But anyway we should put it back a.s.a.p
<micahg> not if it breaks the install :)
<scott-work> len-dt: doh! i forgot about that, it was a python3 issue i think which has probably been fixed already but i don't know that with certainty
<micahg> if someone wants to add it back to the seeds, I'm happy to upload another meta if it doesn't break the ISO
<scott-work> micahg: if len-dt doesn't get it to it during the day i will get it tonight at home (~ 6 hours hence)
<len-dt> scott-work, I am unlikely to get to it.
 * len-dt is off to work.
<holstein> zequence: you mean, it doesnt get complex?
<zequence> Well, PA is not an audio device
<zequence> So, if skype connects to PA, it doesn't care about audio devices
<holstein> sure.. but if you dont understand how to configure multiple devices... it gets complex
<holstein> when you fire up skype and its talking to something pulse is routing it to that is not what you are monitoring
<holstein> i didnt mean to imply pulse was a device.. nor that complexity was an "opinion"
<holstein> i should have said "i find configuring skype more challenging when i have multiple sound devices"
<zequence> default settings for skype audio now that I installed it was, PA, PA, PA
<zequence> So, all you need to do is configure PA
<holstein> sure.. assuming that works and you understand that
<holstein> i dont think meo knows what pulse is
<holstein> nor a repo
<holstein> but.. we are getting there
<holstein> i'll just keep quiet.. just know that he has *not* used that mic yet, and we dont know what version of skype he is using
<zequence> I can't choose anything else than PA in skype settings
<zequence> But this is a reasonably new skype, since it's on 13.04
<falktx_> skype only lists pulseaudio if its running
<falktx_> http://imgr.us/images/hdua09jcjg0amm6g3h3g.png
<zequence> I think Skype only comes for 12.04, but that version works for all releases post 12.04
<zequence> falktx_: I don't get a list like that. I can only choose pulseaudio
<falktx_> yep
<falktx_> zequence: when pulseaudio is running, that list only has pulseaudio
<falktx_> I'm not sure this is the case for US
<zequence> falktx_: Is pulseaudio configured differently for you?
<zequence> falktx_: Same result here, when pulse is not running
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-12-12
<ScottL> micahg, i updated the seeds for putting blender back
<micahg> ScottL: thanks, let's wait until tomorrow's ISO run before reuploading the meta
<smartboyhw> Hmm now lmms is now at 0.4.14-rc1
<smartboyhw> And actually it is JUST released two days ago
<smartboyhw> ScottL, zequence, len-dt, holstein one of our main targets this cycle is to resume weekly meetings. How's that progressing?
 * smartboyhw goes to send the release report mail
<smartboyhw> Actually a draft, I can send it out tmr
<smartboyhw> Actually what do you guys wanna add?
<zequence> smartboyhw: What report is that?
<zequence> Which release?
<smartboyhw> zequence, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda/TeamTemplate
<smartboyhw> ScottL let me write the reports since about September
<smartboyhw> Better grammar: ScottL permitted me to write the reports since Sept.
<ttoine> hello
<ttoine> zequence, dart
<ttoine> zequence, darktable has been updated. is it possible to backport or sru it ?
<smartboyhw> Hiya ttoine 
<smartboyhw> ttoine, does it fix bugs?
<zequence> ttoine: If it's not a matter of a bugfix, we should backport
<ttoine>  http://www.darktable.org/2012/12/released-1-1-1/
<ttoine> bug fixes
<smartboyhw> ttoine, well then you have to SRU it
<zequence> ttoine: The bugs need to be serious in some way
<zequence> I can't tell how serious they are, but it seems there are some low level bugfixes there
<zequence> Would be good to find some bugs for it in LP
<zequence> If found, and they are in deed serious, add all the info for a workitem in the SRU blueprint
<zequence> else, the Backport blueprint
<smartboyhw> ttoine, wait a minute..... the version of darktable in Raring is still 1.05-1ubuntu1
<smartboyhw> It isn't updated in the main Ubuntu repos
<zequence> It was just released yesterday, so it'll take a little time
<zequence> First it will be updated in Debian repos
<zequence> Then, depending, it will be synced to raring
<zequence> If it isn't synced automatically (cause I think we sync from Debian testing, which is in feature freeze, and soon to be released), then we can request a sync from Debian Sid
<smartboyhw> yeo
<smartboyhw> s/yeo/yep
<zequence> Probably things will start to move faster in a month or so. I'm expecting Wheezy to be released any day now, really.
<smartboyhw> zequence, I want that freeze lifted too:P
<ttoine> zequence, what about the sru of sound converter ?
<zequence> ttoine: Anyone can do it. I'm doing other things for a while, so I might do it in a couple of weeks, the earliest
<zequence> I'm working on my personal project right now
<ttoine> zequence, what is your personnal project ?
<smartboyhw> zequence, ooh
<zequence> ttoine: A all in one 
<ttoine> ?
<zequence> all-in-one live audio software
<zequence> I'm doing it in puredata right now
<zequence> Will start a project in C++ next year, but that will take some time
<ttoine> like ableton live ?
<zequence> I haven't tried it, but I doubt it
<scott-work> smartboyhw: will you be preparing an email for the release team this week?
<ttoine> not like, but live oriented, I mean
<scott-work> hi ttoine and zequence :)
<ttoine> hi scott-work 
<zequence> smartboyhw: Hello
<scott-work> micahg: waiting to touch the metas sounds like a good plan
<zequence> ttoine: Live orientated, yes. It could beused for creating music too, but the main strength is that you can control any aspect of it live
<zequence> I mean, used for creating, and then playing back music, as in contrast for live music
<zequence> It's a huge project for me, so I can't actually realize all the features myself very quickly, even if pd is quite fast to code in
<zequence> And it gets to a point where you need more muscle, which pd can
<zequence> can't offer
<astraljava> Which release you'd want it to be backported? quantal doesn't make much sense, as it's not LTS. And quite frankly, precise feels very old already. :)
<zequence> LTS at least, but as quantal is still the latest, it makes sense to me
<zequence> Some people, like holstein, like to keep their LTS for the whole period of 2 years, or longer
<zequence> I don't feel we have a "real" LTS for multimedia, but it's still a LTS
<smartboyhw> scott-work, yep
<scott-work> smartboyhw: i want to make a post about the new testing covention. would you please give me a few bullet point items to mention. i will fill in the language around them
<smartboyhw> scott-work, uh?
<smartboyhw> um
<smartboyhw> 1. Alphas and Beta 1 has been abolished by vanilla Ubuntu (aka Ubuntu Desktop/Core)
<smartboyhw> 2. Flavours can choose whether they want Alpha 1, Alpha 2 and Beta 1 milestones.
<smartboyhw> 3. They can choose to do "cadence" testing instead, no freeze will be taken in these cadence weeks, the daily image builds will continue
<smartboyhw> 4. In these "cadence" weeks the main Ubuntu QA Team will test only certain apps (and of course dailies)
<ttoine> astraljava, I think it is good to have it backported in 12.04 and 12.10. Both are commonly used
<ttoine> astraljava, or SRU
<smartboyhw> ttoine, you can't expect to SRU or backport everything:)
<zequence> The only thing we backported so far, I think is qjackctl, cause it should have helped solve a bug
<zequence> It's not like we do a lot of backporting
<zequence> and no SRU's so far
<zequence> As soon as I have time, I will start working on it. We need docs for it
<zequence> Should then be simple for anyone to do it
<smartboyhw> And actually I don't think backporting to 12.10 should be necessary
<zequence> smartboyhw: why is that?
<scott-work> smartboyhw: part of the process for backporting has been to require backporting to 12.10 to get something backported to 12.04
<scott-work> smartboyhw: thank you for the bullet points. i would really like to get a post pushed out to most places about the new testing procedures
<zequence> scott-work: I don't think all backports are like that though
<smartboyhw> scott-work, oh yeah?
<scott-work> zequence: i was under the impression that this was required for all bakcports. doesn't mean i'm not wrong though :D
<scott-work> speaking of cadence testing: has anyone done any testing lately?
<smartboyhw> So if one day it gets in the middle of developing 14.04 LTS, I need to backport it to 13.10, then 13.04, then 12.10, then finally to get to 12.04 LTS?
<smartboyhw> scott-work, NO:P
<smartboyhw> Last cadence week I had been busy with tests
<zequence> scott-work: Well, UKT is backporting kernels to LTS, and I'm not actually sure if they ended up in Quantal too. Those are a little different probably
<smartboyhw> Will do some testing tmr 
<scott-work> smartboyhw: yeah, 14.04 -> 13.10 -> 13.04 -> 12.10 -> 12.04
<smartboyhw> scott-work, god that is really tiring then
<scott-work> zequence: good point. the kernel might be very distinctive outlier for the process
<scott-work> smartboyhw: it is better than before, the backports team has automated many things
<scott-work> and using prevu or sbuilds for multiple versions is not too bad ;)
<smartboyhw> grrr
<scott-work> i haven't actually used sbuild (micah told me he uses it) but i have used pbuilder quite a bit too
<smartboyhw> I use pbuilder-dist normally
<micahg> smartboyhw: you can backport straight from 14.04 to 12.04 once 12.10 is EOL
<micahg> the idea with backports is to have a supported upgrade path
<astraljava> zequence: kernels make more sense, as they might include drivers that some hardware really need. But users might be satisfied with older, other software.
<zequence> astraljava: It's up to the user if they want to update to backported software, and if anyone feels there's a reason to backport something, I don't see why anyone should object
<zequence> First of all, it would be nice if we could make sure this one release was actually bug free (13.04)
<micahg> zequence: not possible
<zequence> And it would be nice if we could SRU stuff some more
<zequence> micahg: Well, on a level which we can control anyway
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-12-13
<Len-nb> Inkscape could sure use a splash window. It takes so long to start it seems not to work...
<Len-nb> Then a long time later it appears.
<Len-nb> zequence, Could we add a wraper
<Len-nb> *wrapper that gives a splash?
<Len-nb> should we?
<zequence> Len-nb: Maybe push that all the way upstream?
<zequence> Maybe they already have it, but it's just not on, or something
<len-dt> zequence,  Upstream would be best. I'll see if there is a config option first.
<len-dt> I was getting tired last night
<smartboyhw> Hi scott-work len-dt 
<zequence> len-dt: We should probably look more into how blender is packaged
<zequence> jta was to help us with that
<zequence> Make sure it is built with what everyone would need
<zequence> falktx has pointed out that audio applications are not built fully optmimized, as they are built with debug option (while separating the debug into a separate package, there is supposedly something wrong with the build, making the applications slow)
<zequence> len-dt: Sorry. I mixed up Inkscape with blender :)
<zequence> At some point I think it might be a good idea to look at all the packages to see how well they are built and optimized for what we'd use them for
<zequence> And that would mean, we'd need to do that in
<zequence> Debian source
<zequence> suggest changes, etc
<zequence> would actually be great to get falktx to help us with that, once any of us feels up to taking on that task
<len-live> LMMS seems to have installed without problem.
<len-live> Blender too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-12-14
<ttoine> len-1304, what are you testing ? raring ?
<len-1304> yes
<ttoine> len-1304, a daily build ?
<len-1304> I am trying to figure out what has happened with the ms core fonts.
<len-1304> todays build
<len-1304> It says the font installer is installed, but I don't think the fonts are
<len-1304> At least I didn't "Accept" the terms...
<ttoine> perhaps you should try to reconfigure it
<ttoine> did you use apt-get, aptitude, or synaptic to instal ms core fonts ?
<len-1304> I didn't use any. The 32bit version of Ustudio comes with wine.
<len-1304> LMMS pulls it in.
<len-1304> It seems though, that there are some non-ms fonts are included with office anyway, maybe by default.
<len-1304> I just want to make sure we are legal :)
<len-1304> ttoine, Found my answer. The ISO installs the font installer but declines the licence.
<len-1304> A note in the font directory says I just have to reinstall the font installer to get the fonts.
<ttoine> len-1304, I think that some fonts come installed for wine and lmms
<len-1304> Yes but not from MS. They are "look alikes"
<len-1304> It is a package called fonts-liberation and has Times, Arial and Courier fonts
<ttoine> o
<ttoine> len-1304, is it a way to force install in the iso ?
<len-1304> No, because the user can not then accept the licence before install as required.
<len-1304> Or, the live ISO would have to ask if the licence was accepted and if not refuse to run.
<len-1304> It is good as is.
<ttoine> len-1304, is it a problem if the fonts are missing ?
<ttoine> I mean, for applications needing it
<len-1304> I'm not sure, but I don't think the VSTs need them.
<len-1304> wine will have a theme that sets sys default fonts to one of the three we do have. So it would only be something like word, but then word should default to Times, And be willing to use any font installed.
<len-1304> ttoine, the mscore fonts installer suggests "NOTE: the package fonts-liberation contains free variants of the Times, Arial and Courier fonts. It's better to use those instead unless you specifically need one of the other fonts from this package."
<ttoine> len-1304, and this package is installed in Ubuntu Studio ?
<len-1304> Yes, by default
<ttoine> so the matter is more for tahoma and verdana fonts
<len-1304> Though I am not sure if it would be if LMMS was not.
<len-1304> Ya it is for the extra fonts.
<ttoine> but I am not sure that tahoma is in msttcorefonts
<ttoine> the problem of lmms can maybe be solved
<len-1304> LMMS is fine.
<ttoine> I think it is time for me to go do what I am best for : go kick the a** of some developper or packager
<len-1304> Well it works anyway. I guess the 64bit version doesn't do winVSTs though.
<ttoine> maybe we can fix the lmms package and drop off msttcorefonts from the iso
 * len-1304 doesn't have a 64bit machine to play with.
 * ttoine too for tests
<len-1304> It isn't LMMS that asks for them, but wine.
<ttoine> maybe the question will be idiot... but why do we need Wine on the iso ? 
<ttoine> it is a dependency of lmms ?
<len-1304> LMMS uses wine to load some VST plugins
<ttoine> and lmms is not a restricted package ??
<len-1304> I guess not... at least we seem to be allowed to add it to the ISO. I think the only restricted part is the MS core fonts.
<len-1304> And we don't use them.
<len-1304> With the fonts-liberation package from red hat we don't really need them.
<ttoine> there is a licence problem with the vst api...
<ttoine> or maybe they did there own librairy without the steinberd one ?
<ttoine> there / their
<Len-nb> I don't know.
<Len-nb> ttoine, looking at the dssi-vst page it seems there are two versions, one uses the  Steinberg VST SDK, but the normal build does not use it by default.
<Len-nb> So there are open/free SDK/libs out there.
<Len-nb> wine is only needed for the gui.
<ttoine> len-1304, thanks. I didn't know that there was a free sdk
<zequence> Len-nb: I think it should be possible to do the same thing with the fonts, as Ubuntu does with mp3. Add a toggle at some part of the installation
<zequence> Also, I'm thinking it should be possible to add the VST SDK in a non free repo. Or the "partner" repo. 
<zequence> It's probably possible to add all the non free stuff that people want. 
<falktx> no, you can't add the vst sdk
<falktx> it's not redistributable
<zequence> hmm, it's not easy to download from their site, right?
<zequence> falktx: ^
<falktx> you have to sign an agreement
<zequence> Ah yea. I saw that now
<falktx> that is, if you use it
<zequence> falktx: But there's no restrictions distributing software that was built with the SDK though?
<zequence> There's just the problem of redistributing the code
<zequence> And in this case, the resulting package would be non free
<falktx> not sure
<falktx> the only problem is gpl code, where it needs the full source per license
<falktx> lgpl code has no issues with it
<zequence> falktx: The full source of the GPL part of the code, no? (I haven't looked very thoroughly into this yet)
<zequence> The source package would contain everything, except one folder would be empty, namely the Steinberg VST SDK
<zequence> I need to look more at the Steingberg license too
<zequence> I guess only if the non free part of the code was built into its own blob all together
<zequence> Not including any GPL code at all
<smartboyhw> Uh why aren't we getting linux-lowlatency updates after v3.7 kernel is released?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Probably just late
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah
<smartboyhw> len-1304, good that you tested the daily images.
<smartboyhw> I will be away starting from Monday till around 15th January, need to prepare for the exams
<len-1304> zequence, it seems fonts are not an issue for wine any more.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, :D
<len-1304> Good morning smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> len-1304, good evening (10:13 PM here)
<zequence> len-1304: You meant that lmms installs without the fonts?
<len-1304> aye
<len-1304> Yes
 * smartboyhw seriously doesn't understand why the Ubuntu HK LoCo's website is still showing banners of Ubuntu 10.10
<smartboyhw> len-1304, anyway to get the fonts back?
<len-1304> wine installs some fake windows like fonts made by red hat
<zequence> len-1304: Ah yea. It was never an issue with lmms, but with wine then
<len-1304> smartboyhw, just force reinstall the font installer
<zequence> I know wine is replacing a lot of Win libs as well
<smartboyhw> len-1304, hmm that is bad
<zequence> Or some, I don't really know 
<smartboyhw> New users probably will cry that they will need to force reinstall it
<len-1304> smartboyhw, why? most people don't need the MS fonts.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, oh?
<len-1304> wine tries to replace all the win libs, it always has.
<len-1304> but it will use dlls if they are there. and the user asks to.
<len-1304> smartboyhw, wine installs it's own fonts for the three most used windows fonts so that the windows desktop themes etc. will work.
<smartboyhw> OK then:D
<len-1304> They have the same "metrics"
<zequence> I just know that recently I had to replace a wine lib with a windows lib, cause it didn't work properly
<len-1304> micahg, I actually found some time to create the last two missing Icons we needed. So my changes to -icon-theme and -settings is complete.
<zequence> len-1304: Did you merge -settings yet?
<len-1304> zequence, yes there are programs that need the real dll.
<len-1304> which merge?
<zequence> The released version was ahead of our bzr branch with one commit
<zequence> Thanks to smartboyhw 
<smartboyhw> zequence, len-1304 did
<len-1304> ya, I did that before I started
<zequence> Alright :)
 * smartboyhw wonders if he should hide into a hole now:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: It's good to make mistakes. Then we can see if in fact it was a mistake or not
<len-1304> It kinda feels like I am in a hole right now anyway.
<zequence> Sometimes, it's just doing things differently
<smartboyhw> len-1304, uh?
<len-1304> smartboyhw, my computer is in the basement... and it's kinda cool down here.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, oh
<zequence> I'm in a basement myself
<zequence> Not that bad. It's cold outside, but not in here :P
<smartboyhw> Good I'm on the 28th floor:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: You probably never even seen snow
<len-1304> zequence, we try not to use heat where we don't need it.
<zequence> I think HK can be up to 30C even in December
<smartboyhw> zequence, you're wrong. I did see snow when I go travel to in Korea. 
<len-1304> Anyway, I need to go
<smartboyhw> zequence, what? HK can't possibly reach 30C in December
<smartboyhw> Now is around 20C
<zequence> hehe
<smartboyhw> Last week it got to 13C!
<zequence> We had about -20 a few days ago
<zequence> Now it's only about -5
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh
<zequence> I was just out running. Snow everywhere, and gravel on top, to help people from not falling
<smartboyhw> zequence, gee
<len-1304> blender crashes my session (kills X I would guess). Can other people test this please?
<smartboyhw> len-1304, uh?
<len-1304> It may just be my hardware
<len-1304> When I start blender I get a black screen and a login screen
<len-1304> I will do a bug report after work.
<smartboyhw> len-1304, well at least I didn't crash
<zequence> len-1304: proprietary graphics driver?
<zequence> len-1304: Works for me on two machines. One with nvidia proprietary (amd64), one with nouveau (32bit)
<len-1304> zequence, I have 32bit with nouveau. Did you try it with 13.04?
<len-1304> zequence, nouveau is yet again better than 12.10 BTW... or maybe the boot sequence is different.
<len-1304> zequence, I see we are back to "files" instead of nautilus.
<holstein> maybe we should just go to thunar
<holstein> i think nautilus is changing too much for ubuntu proper to use it
<holstein> something is going to happen up there, and maybe we should just go with xubuntu on it
<len-1304> Thunar has crashed too many times on me.
<holstein> me too :/
<len-1304> I don't consider it reliable.
<holstein> i was a big advocate of nautilus in US
<len-1304> It often crashes when I dismount a drive for example.
<len-1304> I don't have anything against files, it seems to be better than when last I met it.
<len-1304> At least it has an about box so I know what application I am running.
<len-1304> I just wish the name of the application "files" matched the name of the binary... and the name of the package.
<len-1304> It makes it so much easier to do bug reports.
<holstein> this is news to me
<holstein> i didnt know we had a "files"
<len-1304> 13.04
<holstein> is that the answer to nautilus going a differnent direction?
<holstein> is ubuntu making that?
<len-1304> We had it for a bit in 12.10, but went back to an older nautilus before release.
<len-1304> I think Files is nautilus' new direction
<len-1304> Files is a debian thing
<len-1304> Kind of like chromium
<holstein> cool
<len-1304> It's not new, they do things like that in other places. Their browser is called one thing for a package name, but once installed is just "browser"
<len-1304> Anyway, I just did the daily upgrade and am going to try out blender again to see if it still crashes :P
<len-1304> So I might vanish
<len-1304> Blender still kills x on me
<holstein> :/
<holstein> len-1304: just thats certain graphics device/driver ?
<len-1304> I don't know. How many people are trying the dailies?
<holstein> i havent been
<zequence> len-1304: As I mentioned earlier, Ubuntu decided to revert back to an earlier version of nautilus for 12.10, since people got a bit shocked by the sudden changes. It
<zequence> The package is still called nautilus, but the gui name is Files
<zequence> Gnome is changing all their apps to have those names
<zequence> Just like iPhoto, Gnome3 now has an app called Photo
<len-1304> Ya, no complaintsreally it works ok anyway and is easy enough to use.
<zequence> Actually, I'm on 12.04 on the 32 bit
<zequence> But, on 13.04 on the amd64
<zequence> I remember you had a crash with blender before too though
<zequence> On 12.10
<len-1304> I don't remember... but then I wouldn't :)
<zequence> One thing I miss about the recent nautilus is no more tree structure
<len-1304> Anyway it is bug #1090570 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1090570 in blender (Ubuntu) "When starting blender screen goes black and login returns" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1090570
<zequence> I wish they would keep these things as config options at least
<len-1304> I can't find tree view.
<zequence> They've removed some features recently
<holstein> yup.. thats out
<zequence> I can understand minimizing the gui interface, but please, do not remove working features. Leave them as options in advanced settings
<len-1304> It would be nice if they used the theme icons for the side panel too
<zequence> At least they've kept tabs
<zequence> If they took that out, it would start being really ridiculous
<zequence> If you ever used Finder on OSX, it makes you feel it's treating you as an idiot
<holstein> lol
<zequence> Pretty much the same on explorer
<holstein> zequence: i hate that you cant even close it with the keyboard shortcuts to close an application
<holstein> like its not an application
<len-1304> I would already feel like an idiot after I looked at the hole in my wallet
<zequence> holstein: What do you mean? Ctrl+Q?
<holstein> the idea of a application used to browse files is too complex for me to handle ;)
<holstein> zequence: i cant remember.. its been a while, but something like that
<zequence> Oh, you're talking about Finder. Yeah, they don't have all the "common" shortcuts
<zequence> Even vlc doesn't have fullscreen with the F button
<zequence> on OSX, that is
<len-1304> The idea is that the user will buy something better...
<holstein> odd
<zequence> maybe one should start using gnome mail lists to talk about these things
<zequence> It's not like they can't change things back
<holstein> i dont think they care
<holstein> they are talking about gnomeOS
<zequence> Sure they care. Just a matter of who makes the decisions though
<zequence> All gnome mail lists https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo
<zequence> nautilus mail list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/nautilus-list
<zequence> Not exactly high traffic
<zequence> So, I wonder where the developers do their talking..
<holstein> i mean, i dont think they are going back
<zequence> They will, if there's a reason to
<zequence> Right now they're doing lots of big changes
<zequence> Whenever there's a single UI change, someone will scream
<zequence> So, I think they anticipate that
<zequence> Cause some changes probably were to the better, no matter what the oldtimers thought at first
<holstein> sure.. someone will probably argue that tree-view removal and make it sound like you are an old-timer
<zequence> I'm just wondering how their development communication works, and why it seems their community interaction is so poor on the mail lists
<zequence> This one seems to have a bit more traffic. The desktop-devel list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
<zequence> Here's a thread that may be a normality this year https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-July/msg00016.html
<zequence> Personally, i can't find any other bad feature removes, other then treeview
<zequence> That doesn't make any at all sense to me, why removing it is for the better
<zequence> There's nothing to replace it
<zequence> There's no other way of using the application, where you can get the same functionality
<zequence> Most other changes have just been cosmetic.
<len-1304> holstein, zequence the one place thunar was crashing on me doesn't any more.
<len-1304> Tree view seems to work fine.
<zequence> I'm guessing everyone is for returning to Thunar?
<zequence> holstein: ^
<len-1304> Not yet. I want to run it for a few weeks as a daily file manager.
<zequence> len-1304: I don't have treeview
<len-1304> whatever else I have to say about nautilus, it has been solid for me.
<zequence> That's in the folder view
<len-1304> Ok, maybe I;m missing something.
<len-1304> I'll have to look at an older version of nautilus
<zequence> For me, the sidepane doesn't matter much, though I think some people will want to have treeview there
<zequence> If there's at least that, then it's something
<len-1304> I was just assuming that was what you were talking about
<len-1304> I have never looked close at nautilus, just used default.
<zequence> In previous nautilus versions you have a plus button next the folder. Clicking it would expand it and show its' contents
<len-1304> Sounds nice.
<zequence> Very useful when looking for something from a "root" folder
<zequence> Of course, you can do that from a terminal too
<zequence> Which is what I do more and more these days
<zequence> What you'd do now is right click on a folder, have it open in another tab, or another window. And then move up and down it, while keeping the "root" folder open in the original nautilus window
<zequence> If what you want is to keep track of where you were originally
<zequence> It's also a nice way to be able to move content from folder to folder
<zequence> I mean, using the treeview
<len-1304> Ya.
<zequence> But, mainly I was using it for browsing, if I didn't know what I was looking for
<len-1304> Some of the browsers are like that for managing bookmarks.
<Len-nb> zequence, so the tree view you mean is a part of list mode.... looking at 12.04 here.
<zequence> Len-nb: Ah, yeah
<zequence> I only ever use the list mode
<zequence> Can't find jack in icon mode
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-12-16
<len-1304> zequence, Just reading about reaper (http://reaper.fm/about.php) and came across a new (to me) concept... That of plugin firewalling.
<len-1304> It seems VSTs fail/crash pretty often even on windows systems...
<len-1304> The idea of the PFW is to isolate the plugin from the the software it is plugged into so that the DAW is not crashed by the plugin.
<len-1304> Sounds like a plugin wrapper of some sort. Kind of like running a VST in a jackrack kind of deal except keeping all the audio flow internal to the DAW.
<len-1304> I ended up on the reaper page because a user was asking about compiling ninjam.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-12-10
<cub> Hi ttoine 
<ttoine> hey
<cub> did you get an email from a user about spreadshirt shop in US/Canada?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-12-13
<cub> Is there something similar to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-contributors for Trusty? I can't seem to find my around in Launchpad again
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-12-09
<cub> Hello people. Just wanted to pop by and say I'm still too busy to make myself useful, but there's still hope.
<cub> Also I met an Ubuntu Studio user by a fluke at work. He was quite happy with everything the team does!
<ttoine> hello everybody
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-12-10
<DalekSec> zequence: Howdy.  So we (Xubuntu) are looking into maybe enableing Ubiquity's panel, this is during install on a "Install now" system and will give the user access to connect to wireless for the install.  Not sure if I'm making sense, could give you an image or screenshot.
<zequence> DalekSec: Sounds cool.
<zequence> DalekSec: I'm sure we'd like to have it too.
<zequence> I won't be doing much until January though, and will mostly work on streamlining our stuff with Xubuntu's actually.
<DalekSec> zequence: That's the kicker for this one, it'd be a change in ubiquity that checks for xfwm, so all Xfce using flavors would have to agree.
<zequence> DalekSec: I can't think of a reason why anyone would disagree on this, so consider us all for it.
<zequence> OvenWerks: ^
<DalekSec> Great.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-12-13
<OvenWerks> zequence: no reason to be different I think. If it means we can use more of xubuntu's stuff that way it would help.
<OvenWerks> ... Ya I know a few days ago now. We have been living in a hotel while work was being done on the house.
<OvenWerks> The boys bedrooms are back but my studio is at least another week before I have access, let alone time to put things together again.
<OvenWerks> I still don't like wisker (xubuntu's menu) I installed xubuntu LTS on my netbook USB drive (the internal is dying) and have been using it this week.
<OvenWerks> It needs clicks over hoovering to get to submenus. But whatever people like is fine, I think I tried our menu stub with it and that worked ok too.
<OvenWerks> Nobody seems to want to fix the system menu files, so I have given up on that.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-12-14
<OvenWerks> I notice that xubuntu no longer ships with a second panel on the bottom. I know more than one panel is still possible, but I think the idea is that with wisker's favourites, the second panel is not needed. There are still two workspaces, but no workspace applet for changing from one to the other. I am guessing that is left to the "secret keystroke" or that there is only supposed to be one workspace.
<OvenWerks> zequence: personally I have found that even though I have set up the second panel to my own liking, I hardly use it. So I am not against following xubuntu in removing it.
<OvenWerks> In the end, to be really workable with almost every DE, a menu for just Studio stuff in the systray may be the best answer.
<OvenWerks> I may personally _like_ the classic style menu, but UbuntuStudio is not about my likes so much as where the rest of the computing world is going
<DalekSec> OvenWerks: Hi.  Yes whisker is default, but as I at least use the applications menu, that one will be kept maintained as well.  You get the cake, the second panel was removed as whisker generally preformes the same tasks that used to provide.  The workspace applet was removed as we removed the second workspace.  The idea behind that is generally that's more of an advanced user option, and can 
<DalekSec> cause confusion with newer users (or, ...
<DalekSec> ... advanced users know how to add it, so they can do so.)  Ctrl+Alt+arrow and I believe the mousewheel work to change still.
<OvenWerks> DalekSec: My uxbuntu 14.04 still seemed to have the second workspace just not the applet
<OvenWerks> When I went to set it up the default was two work spaces (I changed to 4)
<DalekSec> Ah, can't remember what 14.04 had, 14.10 is what I was talking about.
<OvenWerks> OK
<OvenWerks> As I said, I may like the application menu, but for Studios default I will be happy with whatever.
<OvenWerks> I thihk both zequence and I want something that requires as little work to keep going as we can. Being able to use xubuntu base and add would be nice.
<OvenWerks> We also want things to work with any DE, not just xfce lxde and KDE...
<OvenWerks> There have been a number of people who want studio with unity or gnome session.... and who am I to argue?
<OvenWerks> ButI would like something that works enough the same on all of them that it can be documented only once.
<DalekSec> OvenWerks: Feel free to ping me in here or in x-devel, too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-12-07
<flocculant> thanks sakrecoer_ - merged the scribus one
<flocculant> and yes as krytarik said - pull it again, when I was doing a bunch at the same time I just renamed the old local copy 
<flocculant> mmm - seems the scribus one was mixed up with blender - when I merged blender etc it's also marked your scribus code as merged
<flocculant> though only the right one turned up here :p
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: i just pushed the corrected blender testcase. created a side folder where i temporarily store the other testcases before i commit and push...
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: couldn't find back to that "renew merge request" button... but this is the revision: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sakrecoer/ubuntu-manual-tests/bug-1184739/revision/366
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 366 in moodle (Ubuntu) "install.php file missing after install" [Medium,Fix released]
<sakrecoer_> no ubottu ... not bugg 366, revision <3 it's ok you good bot anyway
<sakrecoer_> ah... just saw krytarik's chats :) 
<sakrecoer_> i'll try to do darktable, fontmanager and fontforge today
<sakrecoer_> hmm... got a hash sum mismatch on apt-get update in xenial dev install...
<zequence> Not sure how to get a new channel created. Asking around on #ubuntu-irc
<sakrecoer_> zequence: i think you just /join it... if its an offtopic channel, perhaps it dosen't have to be "official"...?
<sakrecoer_> https://blog.freenode.net/2008/04/registering-a-channel-on-freenode/ "The short version is that official channels (also known as primary channels) are named starting with one #, unofficial (topical or about channels)  start with ##. If your channel is not an official one, please use ## at the start of the channel name, or you may be asked to move."
<zequence> sakrecoer_: Yes, that is a way to create a channel, but there are also these official channels like this one.
<zequence> astraljava: benonsoftware: cyphermox: DalekSec: eagles0513875_: flocculant: micahg: NoklaM: Noskcaj: OvenWerks: sakrecoer_:
<zequence> FYI, I created the channel #ubuntustudio-offtopic, so please make use of it :)
<zequence> sakrecoer_: In order to become admin of this channel, you will need to become a member of a launchpad group, so it's no just user administered. But, don't ask me how that stuff really works.
<zequence> An offtopic channel doesn't really need to be logged and what else, so in that sense, we could just keep our own for that
<zequence> When I say "this", I mean #ubuntustudio-devel, not -offtopic, just to be clear
<zequence> Ah, I'm not op of the -offtopic channel. No one is. But, default settings seem ok.
<sakrecoer_> right.. i understand :) 
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: not sure what's going on - I see you pushed up 4 hours ago, looks like the old one still 
<flocculant> and remove scribus when you push it again please
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: strange... i did remove it.... hm... let me check it again..
<flocculant> ignore me 
<sakrecoer_> is it allright?
<flocculant> if I pull your branch it's correct 
<sakrecoer_> hmm... weird...
<flocculant> just seems that LP is all fooey somewhere
<sakrecoer_> well... can't help much on that level. But if i have to fix anything with those testcases, do not hesitate in telling me!
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: is it the first time there are manual testcases made for the Studio packages?
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: your ones? no - there's been a few in the last 2 weeks
<flocculant> ok - so that's all done now - on the tracker for Ross 
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: well... i'm thinking for blender and all those packages that have a bug filed for missing manual testcase...
<sakrecoer_> they should mostely be reusable from release to release..
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: yea
<flocculant> all that Xubuntu does is check the tests for a new release, then do a bug, mp and update 
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: when you do more - you could do a bunch in one MP, just link it to multiple bugs, eg do darktable, fontmanager and fontforge link the code to all 3 bugs
<flocculant> or one MP for one bug then rename your local branch and start again
<flocculant> one more thing - if you've got a local copy, then bzr pull should bring it up to date to the main branch
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: how would i name the branch if i batch push testcases?
<flocculant> once you've pushed it you can call it flibbertygibbet if you want :)
<flocculant> but
<flocculant> if something needs fixing you have to fiddle about with names (I think) 
<flocculant> personally, if I was you I would grab the branch, do a bunch, push and link to multiple bugs
<flocculant> biab - need lunch 
<sakrecoer_> thanks flocculant i'll try that! :) enjoy your meal!
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: thanks - done :)
<sakrecoer_> wow!! you mind reading too? :D
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> just saw it turn up in thunderbird :)
<flocculant> I saw that by the time I had seen Draktable you'd already pushed it again :D
<sakrecoer_> hhaha!! forgot my typos...
<flocculant> :)
<sakrecoer_> is it "bzr pull" from within the ubuntu-manual-tests to update my local branch?
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: 
<flocculant> yep
<sakrecoer_> thanks :)
<flocculant> should grab 1670_Darktable :)
<sakrecoer_> yes! :)
<flocculant> \o/
<sakrecoer_> i'm trying to find the mail were Ross explianed how to file a bug repport in debian to have latest fontforge version... in vain.... anyone could refresh my memory?
<DalekSec> zequence: You should be at least...
<DalekSec> IMO, you should have at least +f.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-12-08
<sakrecoer_> how is the priority of a bug decided?
<sakrecoer_> i intercepted this bugfile yesrterday, and assigned myself to it... but as far as i can tell, there is no way for me to fix it.... i was intending to try reproduce it yesterday, but wont be able to find time until thursday..
<sakrecoer_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1523556
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1523556 in Ubuntu Studio "Mouse cursor stuck at drag symbol if dragging some program window" [Undecided,New]
<sakrecoer_> there is another user who has this problem here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/701119/xfce-drag-and-drop-pointer-stuck-on-some-windows
<sakrecoer_> althou we don't ship clementine and SMPlayer the user who files a bug in launchpad has SMPlayer installed and the problem seems to occure there too...
<sakrecoer_> maybe its not called "priority" but "importance"....?
<zequence> sakrecoer_: I had that too. Got it from a QT window.
<zequence> ffado-mixer to be specific
<zequence> So, the only thing I can think of at this point is it could have something to do with QT
<zequence> Bloody annoying bug, when you're just about to mix something down - I found no way of getting out of that state, had to reboot.
<sakrecoer_> hmm.... krita is KDE....
<sakrecoer_> the sollution seems to be to restart lightDM
<zequence> Yes. What's the command for that, btw?
<sakrecoer_> zequence: sudo service lightdm restart
<zequence> Ah, ok. Thanks
<sakrecoer_> :) kindof made my day to be able to help you :)
<sakrecoer_> in a humble kindof way, obviously, king zequence <3
<zequence> Haha, well, I sure know very little of most things
<sakrecoer_> enough to impress me :) but maybe that is for the offtopic channel :D
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: just push the fontmanager testcase
<sakrecoer_> :)
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: I know ;) couple of comments - one definitely looks odd :)
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: well spotted! thanks!
<flocculant> :)
<sakrecoer_> never heard "struck through" in typographic context, but the testcases should be accesible to all and you are the english expert compared to me :)
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: VoilÃ  :)
<flocculant> over-lined to me suggests a line over the top of some text - like underlined would be under :)
<sakrecoer_> thats how it looks...
<sakrecoer_> aah yeah... i see what you mean..
<sakrecoer_> flocculant: you the english boss! i trust you and will correct my own language according to your advice :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well I come from Hampshire - and there's only one H in 'amspha so I shouldn't be too sure of me :p
<flocculant> anyway - all merged and on the tracker now - thanks sakrecoer_ :)
<sakrecoer_> good to know maybem anyways, boiling down to formulation of sentences, i'm sure you beat the crap out of my frenglish allday everyday :) it's a pleasure to feel a bit usefull, flocculant :)
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: it's a pleasure to help people get these studio tests up there and available :)
<krytarik> zequence: Btw, there seems to be duplication here, while the series is set to "trunk" indeed: "https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/ubuntustudio-default-settings" - can we fix that? :P
<krytarik> zequence: And as I asked earlier: "Ftm, how about setting -devel '-s' and '+t'?"
<zequence> krytarik: Ah, right. Let me check those things tomorrow.
<krytarik> Alright.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-12-09
<krytarik> zequence: What I mentioned yesterday, same with "https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-look/ubuntustudio-look".
<sakrecoer_> is that the branch for desktop art and such krytarik 
<sakrecoer_> ?
<krytarik> Yeah.
<sakrecoer_> cool!
<sakrecoer_> also found https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-artwork pulling them both to snoop arround in them.
<sakrecoer_> is there a team for the artwork? i see the ubuntustudio-look branch requires ubuntstudio-developer team memebership to contribute
<sakrecoer_> krytarik
<krytarik> sakrecoer_: Nope, there doesn't seem to be a specific artwork team, just that.
<flocculant> o/ 
<krytarik> Hi flocculant.
<flocculant> :)
 * krytarik laughs
<flocculant> ha ha 
<sakrecoer_> long time not update in many of the look/artwork/icon branches..
<sakrecoer_> many and many.... 2 out of 4...
<sakrecoer_> are the artwork guys listed in the credits on IRC sometimes?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: yes, but not recently.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: there is and artwork team I think... just looking.
<OvenWerks> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-art
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia is the lead it says
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: As always you are welcome to to create a merge for any of these packages.
<sakrecoer_> thanks OvenWerks its seems i have to be memeber of the developer team to contribute to the look branch.. but its fine each thing in its time :)
<sakrecoer_> i pulled it all and am looking into it now :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I can finish a merge if required, then zequence can upload :)
<sakrecoer_> perfect! :) defenitly joining the art team tho :)
<OvenWerks> I know it seems more steps than should be needed. But more than one pair of eyes is good too.
<sakrecoer_> i'm fine with taking the existing steps. :) i could however only help improve the process after aquiring experience with them :)
<krytarik> Alright, me not finding that team was the result of inadvertently searching Google rather than LP directly, seeing it not linked on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ArtTeamPage , and nowhere else either. :P
<sakrecoer_> hehe... first thing i will do is fix that hexter.png icon...
<sakrecoer_> it looks good enough, but the size... hurts my nerve to see it bigger then everybody else in the list
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: hexter and HDSPmixer too.
<sakrecoer_> yes!!!! just saw it was there too :)
<sakrecoer_> it's just a matter of resizing them :)
<OvenWerks> XFCE seems to have changed. It used to be that a 48X48 was good enough. (1404 shows them both correct size)
<sakrecoer_> i don't think i have seen them display correctly since 12.04... but i might be wrong. They are definitly wrong on my 14.04
<OvenWerks> I may have fixed them locally... though I am generally too lazy for something like that.
<sakrecoer_> is it 32x32 in use atm, OvenWerks ?
<sakrecoer_> i mean... the correct size is 32x32?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I think for menu it is supposed to be 20... but for whisker I don't know.
<sakrecoer_> so several sizes is best?
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: it may depend on the whiskermenu settings even. There is an icon size
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: that would be a good question to ask the xubuntu guys.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: they would know what sizes should be available. If they are svg to begin with, it should be possible to just have one.
<OvenWerks> Some people just have a link to that one in each size directory.
<sakrecoer_> yeah... i was also wondering about svg... that is the optimal format for this kindof things..
<OvenWerks> I am pretty sure the guys in xubuntu are involved with the whiskermenu development.
<OvenWerks> svg _should_ be smaller than png and clearer.
<sakrecoer_> but, is svg at all accepted?
<OvenWerks> I thought I had done hexter as svg.
<OvenWerks> but I can't find it.
<sakrecoer_> its not to be found in the branch..
<sakrecoer_> have a look maybe, otherwise i can redraw it... :) i think the look works. its just size...
<OvenWerks> look in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/ lots of svgs
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the old one we had was a screenshot of the one on their web page. It looked really bad.
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: so I redrew it to a least be clean, but it is the same as their's
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the original is in the package, but it and the desktop file are not installed by default for some reason.
<sakrecoer_> ok... :)
<sakrecoer_> haha! darktable have a special xmas icon :D
<sakrecoer_> sorry ot...
<OvenWerks> not really
<sakrecoer_> :) try to see if you can find your svg version, otherwise i can redraw it no problem :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: I can't find it. It is not in any of the palces I would normally put such things
<sakrecoer_> ok :) i've been wanting to fix that for ages, so i will do it sometime this week :)
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: you may wish to look at http://dssi.sourceforge.net/hexter.html 
<OvenWerks> sakrecoer_: the github source code does not come with an icon at all: https://github.com/smbolton/hexter I think that was what I found out before.
<zequence> krytarik: sakrecoer_ : There is a an artwork team. Ot
<zequence> It's called ubuntustudio-art
<zequence> You can see all the teams here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamStructure
<zequence> krytarik: Not sure what you feel is the problem with the repos.
<zequence> Right, Len already tolr you
<zequence> I'll be around a little more tomorrow hopefully
<krytarik> zequence: Duplication of the package name in the URL, rather than just its series, "trunk".
<krytarik> zequence: So, do you feel like adding the LP team URL to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ArtTeam , then? :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-12-10
<OvenWerks> plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text? we replace it anyway... Gaa. (ISO build fail)
<OvenWerks> Well, that should effect vanilla, so I imagine it will not be a problem long.
<zequence> Only about 1 1/2 months late, but hey, let's begin our feature definitioning!
<krytarik> OvenWerks: "plymouth-theme-ubuntu-text? we replace it anyway... Gaa. (ISO build fail)" - just unlike build time there, it was fixed shortly after already. :P
<krytarik> * unlucky
<OvenWerks> krytarik: No problem then we will have an ISO today.
<krytarik> Yep.
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Btw, you should soon notice them fiddling with your theme, too - for the same reason.
<krytarik> Like here: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/xenial
<zequence> krytarik: On the repo names. I think that's a bzr/git naming clash. The repos I've named, I did so according to the package name
<zequence> One of the names in the url is the project name, and the other the repo name, and from one perspective it makes sense if they match
<krytarik> zequence: It's not here though, for example: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-artwork/trunk
<zequence> Ok, could be I didn't name that repo
<krytarik> Yeah.
<zequence> If I start renaming the repos after the convention: trunk, trusty, xenial, etc, it wouldn't be a big problem
<zequence> Could be some people would need to update their config for the remote address
<zequence> I can see why it makes more sense to use this convention with bzr
<OvenWerks> zequence: When I do a push I always use the link from the web page for the package.
<OvenWerks>  I do for github too. It just seems to make sure.
<zequence> I can do some renaming for all our repos then, at the same time as I reorganize the blueprint stuff
<zequence> I suppose the name repo is wrong for bzr, since each "repo" is a branch
<OvenWerks> krytarik: Our phymouth theme is in our -look package.
<krytarik> Yep.
<OvenWerks> we used to have a separate package for it.
<OvenWerks> I guess we still do, but it comes from -look
<krytarik> Yep, source rather than binary package.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-12-11
<flocculant> sakrecoer_: bug 1524937
<ubottu> bug 1524937 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Install plymouth-themes missing xubuntu-text.so" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1524937
<sakrecoer_> thanks flocculant :)
<flocculant> it's being looked at btw
<sakrecoer_> perfect :)
<sakrecoer_> "Installing new version of config file /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove ..." \o/
<zequence> Seems there's a problem with syslinux after the gcc5 transition
<zequence> bug 1507002
<ubottu> bug 1507002 in syslinux (Ubuntu) ""boot error" due to gcc v5 transition" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507002
<zequence> Affects usb installer creators such as unetbootin
<zequence> We have this problem with 15.10, so I will make a note on our download page about this
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-12-13
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Interesting thread on the ML - and there is still time for what you mentioned there, since Feature Freeze != Feature Definition Freeze - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<krytarik> Till February 18th, tbe.
<cfhowlett> Anyone know of any official wallpaper developing underway?  I am considering trying to coordinate a community contest if no one else is doing it.
<zequence> cfhowlett: Zak hasn't answered yet, and considering we are so late in the cycel already, I think you should just go ahead with that
<cfhowlett> zequence, roger that.  I'll run the arrangements through the team before going public
<zequence> cfhowlett: Cool. It's been long overdue. Thanks for fixing that.
<cfhowlett> :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-12-12
 * OvenWerks is not sure if he will be there for meeting this week.
 * cfhowlett knows he won't be there since y'all are meeting at 0400 local time  :(
<OvenWerks> OWCH
<OvenWerks> we have trouble in -controls land... there are some things that are system (must be changed as root) and some stuff that is userland (must be changed not just as the user, but as the user from the session) This means that the whole idea of pkexec ubuntustudio-controls is flawed and needs to be changed
<OvenWerks> I found this out by doing a check if jack is running (it is in my session) and the result is "stopped"
<OvenWerks> Which is correct because root is not running jack. If root does run jack, the user can't create clients that see root's jack anyway.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: ^^^ this is likely the case for tablet setup as well.
<OvenWerks> The current idea is that the user should know when they are changing system settings and those should be by password. I am not sure this is true. Adding a user to the audio group or activating the audiolimits file are not really a problem.
<OvenWerks> Changing boost or cpu governor should not be a problem either.
<OvenWerks> None of these things allow the user to input arbitrary text, rather they give the user a set of choices they can choose from.
<OvenWerks> I am thinking to create another script in /usr/sbin that can be called to do system kinds of things. I can set it up in PK to just work with no password. It would be called with one parameter that could be a cpu governor name, boost_on/off or boot_gov/boot_boost. That leaves setting the group. I guess I could make it two parameters so we could do group user.
<OvenWerks> if we wanted to keep the password part we could instead ask for the password when OK is selected.
<krytarik> Pretty sure I want a password for that, yes.
<OvenWerks> It would mean doing all changes at exit. This  could be ok... but it would be kind of nice to leave the utility open and switch back and forth between boost and not or performance and not rather than using a password each switch.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: which parts do you want password protected?
<krytarik> Well, all system-wide ones, of course.
<krytarik> Otherwise, one could fiddle with the script and make it execute all sorts of things.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: one has to have root acces to change the script
<krytarik> True.
<OvenWerks> all files in /usr are owned by root
<OvenWerks> If we were allowing the user to type in anything at all... password required.
<OvenWerks> but we don't for anythingn ayatem
 * OvenWerks has bad typing this morning...
<OvenWerks> Anyway, we have to run a separate process for system. We can do it two ways:
<OvenWerks> 1) a script with parameters in the background
<OvenWerks> 2) a second GUI based script run with a password.
<OvenWerks> krytarik: option 1 is invisible to the user, option 2 means the user starts a second application for some things and closing the main window may not close the system... or the system window may make the main window inactive.
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Or just use shell commands directly with pkexec?
<OvenWerks> krytarik: that would mean putting a password in two or three times after clicking ok
<OvenWerks> (4 times actually)
<OvenWerks> krytarik: if you install one of the governor change applets (like the one Luke suggested) they do not ask you for a password ever to change governor. Why are we more sensitive?  Setting the group to audio and the limits file to enabled are just things that should have been done on install.
<krytarik> OvenWerks: How does that do it then?
<OvenWerks> My personal feeling is that the jackd install is broken in that it does not set rt availablility.
<OvenWerks> probably with a line in policy kit
<OvenWerks> see /usr/share/polkit-1/actions
<OvenWerks> though it may be with a line in /etc/sudoers or a file in /etc/sudoers.d/
<OvenWerks> krytarik: I would like to remove the availablility to choose a user(s) to set to audio group and just invisibly when run check if things are installed right and fix otherwise :)
<OvenWerks> So make sure the file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf exists and drop the current user into the audio group... no questions asked. Maybe check if jack is installed first.
<OvenWerks> If we want the user to know something is happening (I guess really we do) then make it one check box "[] fix this user to run jack properly".
<OvenWerks> Make the checkbox grey out if the task is already done and if the user has not yet logged out and back in... have a line just below in bold red that says reboot required or some such.
<OvenWerks> In fact I may be able to make the widget not visible unless it needs doing.
<OvenWerks> I think I have figured it out.   ;)
<OvenWerks> I wonder if we should check if a lowlatency kernel is installed... we can run without.
<krytarik> Well, check is nice - but just display if it isn't, I guess.
<krytarik> Similar to what you've just done.
<krytarik> And I guess the external shell script option without requiring a password is the most sensible then.
<OvenWerks> Right, in any case the GUI will change again
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-12-13
<g_santos> Hey, @krytarik's referred me here.
<g_santos> I'm willing to help in any way I can. I believe mostly testing and maybe writing.
<g_santos> How can I?
<krytarik> g_santos: Starting points for the two areas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/Tester , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
<g_santos> Getting the development release. Might take a while, since the internet in Brazil is funny. 2Mbytes here.
<g_santos> 50 times faster 5 Km from here.
<eylul> #commands
<eylul> that didn't work :) 
<krytarik> \o/
<eylul> ok what am I doing wrong?
<krytarik> Well, I think those only work within a meeting.
 * eylul sighs
<eylul> will start the meeting in a few min
<eylul>  Krytarik, Ovenwerks, Jlye, Sakrecoer, astraljava, trebmuh
<Jlye> ?
<Jlye> meeting ?
<eylul> yup
<eylul> ok Krytarik it might be just you and me
<eylul> (and Jlye)
<krytarik> Not sure.  Just start the meeting, and ask for attendance - see who'll pop up.
<eylul> #startmeeting "UbuntuStudio weekly check-in"
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec 13 19:10:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is eylul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<eylul> #chair krytarik
<meetingology> Current chairs: eylul krytarik
<eylul> who do we have here for meeting? 
<krytarik> o/
<eylul> I know OvenWerks and Rosco2 mentioned they might not make it this week. 
<eylul> ok well, I assume the silence does mean it is 2 of us this week :D
<eylul> Ok I suppose I should go through with the meeting items even through most will be not relevant. 
<eylul> #topic: Welcome and Agenda
<eylul> #subtopic: meetingology
<eylul> We are using meetingology this week. 
<eylul> When giving updates please use #done: tasks completed e.g. "#done finished system tab for ubuntu-controls" 
<eylul> When giving a summary of a situation or giving additional context use #info tag: e.g. "#info in last release we removed this package because of a bug
<eylul> When putting an idea when discussing an item use: "#idea how about we make the icons blue"
<eylul> If there is a place where you need input/help from another team member: "#help ardour backport needs more testing before the release candidate is posted"
<eylul> #subtopic Agenda
 * eylul fails at meetingology adding these for record
<eylul> #topic Welcome and Agenda
<eylul> #subtopic meetingology
<eylul> #subtopic Agenda
<eylul>  * Team updates
<eylul>  * Active projects
<eylul>  ** Ubuntustudio-controls
<eylul>  ** website
<eylul>  ** Wallpaper contest
<eylul>  * Todo for next week and milestones
<eylul> Any additions to the topic list before we continue?
<krytarik> Nope.
<eylul> ok. well I assume we will only discuss website today. 
<eylul> #topic Team updates
<eylul> What has everybody worked on this week? (nothing is ok), please use #done when posting. post each task on its own line.
<eylul> #info not much from me this week, just some UI brainstorming with OvenWerks on -controls. 
<eylul> #info OvenWerks has been working on ubuntustudio-controls, see the ML for details of progress. 
<eylul> krytarik?
<krytarik> Yep, that's mainly it - plus reminding that there are packages for it in the autobuilds PPA to test.
<krytarik> More specifically, for all Xenial, Yakkety, and Zesty now.
<eylul> lets get back to it in more detail in discussion
<eylul> #info CFHowlett is working on a dry run of image uploads for the wallpaper contest
<eylul> ok anything else I am missing before we move on?
<krytarik> Nope.
<eylul> ok then
<eylul> #Active Projects
<eylul> >.<
<eylul> #topic Active Projects
<eylul> #subtopic Ubuntustudio-controls
<eylul> Ok so Ovenwerks isn't here so just a summary of state of things
<krytarik> Well, in addition to what I said earlier, here is the link to the PPA: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild
<eylul> ok
<eylul> thanks Krytarik
<eylul> #subtopic website
<eylul> alright. so the internal deadline we gave ourselves is up. there is still no reply to the ticket right
<krytarik> So I was suggesting earlier to we call up the Community Council on this next - to try and get this forward someway.
<krytarik> Of course, I'll nominate our project lead, Set, for this. >_>
<eylul> *nods* I am not that familiar with the procedures, but it could be a solution. 
<eylul> :D or you could do it? once we get the confirmation from him? 
<krytarik> Well, I guess anyone of us could bring it up to them as well, yes.
<eylul> ok
<eylul> #nick Sakrecoer; #action Sakrecoer Krytarik mailing Community Council about the issue of ignored ticket. (pending approval from Sakrecoer as project lead) 
<krytarik> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: SUBTOPIC
<krytarik> Oops.
<eylul> #subtopic website
<eylul> ok you write it correctly
<eylul> :)
<krytarik> Well, I guess with that, we failed completely now anyway. >_>
<eylul> I did put the subtopic back in :D
 * eylul is tempted to put meetingology hiccup as a subtopic 
<krytarik> Yeah, but it's counting from there again.
<eylul> it just undid the subtopic. just add the action item back in?
<eylul> #nick Sakrecoer
<eylul> #action Sakrecoer or Krytarik will email Community Council about the issue of ignored ticket. (pending approval from Sakrecoer as project lead) 
<meetingology> ACTION: Sakrecoer or Krytarik will email Community Council about the issue of ignored ticket. (pending approval from Sakrecoer as project lead)
<eylul> ok anything else on the website?
<krytarik> No.
<eylul> ok
<eylul> #subtopic Wallpaper contest
<eylul> CFHowlett is working on having a small dry run contest on facebook if I understood correctly
<eylul> anything else about that? 
<krytarik> Not that I know of.
<eylul> alright. 
<eylul> #topic Todo for next week and milestones
<eylul> #info Next meeting will be at 20 Dec 2016, 19:30UTC. (https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Ubuntustudio+meeting&iso=20161220T1930&ah=1)
<eylul> that's all I have for this week
<krytarik> Yep, closure time.
<eylul> ok lets see what the output looks like :D
<eylul> this was a bit of a chaos. 
<eylul> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec 13 20:04:45 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2016/ubuntustudio-devel.2016-12-13-19.10.moin.txt
<eylul> ok, that might be summarized as whoops. :D
<OvenWerks>  Read the back log, sorry I wasn't there. The only update on -controls is that it needs pretty much a rewrite  :P The GUI will stay much the same, but needs to run as part of the user's session to work right. Therefore system setup will move to it's own CLI utility that the GUI will call. The part of the utility that completes a ubuntustudio install for people who have installed from metas rather than an ISO. It will be a simple checkbox
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Regarding the middle part, I was thinking later, you planning to do that as shell script or in Python too?
<OvenWerks> krytarik: bash
<OvenWerks> It is easier to get system info in bash
<OvenWerks> it is easier to run commands in bash too.
<OvenWerks> There are more people who know how to maintain bash
<OvenWerks> Writing system scripts in a secure way is better understood.
<krytarik> Well, not opposed to it, of course - just later thought...
<OvenWerks> krytarik: if you have something I haven't thought of... it is not a big deal either way... I can do it in c++ if we really want, but I think that would make things much harder to change down the road as well as being harder to package.
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Well no, I thought of (and expressed it) a shell script for this too - but considering the main script is in Python, I later thought if it'd be similarly easy to do in that, and potentially be more efficient..
<krytarik> Thought of shell script first, I mean.
<OvenWerks> I may try both then... just to see.
<OvenWerks> I will probably do a bash script first (cause I already have one on my system that does some of this stuff ;)
<krytarik> OvenWerks: Do you actually mean Bash, or do you just use the two terms interchangably, and simple '/bin/sh' would do too?
<OvenWerks> not sure, I just normally put #!/bin/bash on top...
<krytarik> Well, I try to not use it unless the code requires it.
<OvenWerks> It is hard to test just /bin/sh because that normally is a link to bash anyway.
<krytarik> No, it's not.
<OvenWerks> your right it is a link to dash
<OvenWerks> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Apr 22  2016 /bin/sh -> dash
<krytarik> Yep.
<OvenWerks> I can make it work with that. I don't think I would do anything fancy. The main thing is a case ... esac to deal with command line parameters
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-12-14
<OvenWerks> I want to deal only with specific commands, no free text.
<krytarik> Featured in the current UWN issue: https://rossgammon68.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/manual-tests-of-ubuntu-studio-packages/
<cfhowlett> nice
<krytarik> Indeed.
<krytarik> Regarding Krita: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.zesty/revision/1350
<eylul> hi cfhowlett, krytarik
<cfhowlett> yowza
<krytarik> Hi eylul.
<eylul> :) oh wow that's a nice article
<eylul> and re krita, I guess that is the happy ending?
<krytarik> No, that just means the Kubuntu team has now attached themselves more to it - I'd think in context of you talking to them about it earlier.
<krytarik> Which is good, because now we definitely know who to poke the next time.
<eylul> *nods* they were really interested
<eylul> and I know they are willing to try getting krita into ubuntu repos if debian doesn't happen
<eylul> I need to double check with ross, if that deadline passed or not
<eylul> he said a Dec 5, then a Jan 5
<eylul> I am somewhat confused at this point, what is the realistic deadline on debian side :D
<krytarik> The latter: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianStretch
<eylul> oh so it MIGHT make it in until January
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-12-15
<CoderEurope> Hiya! Anyone here ?
<CoderEurope> Hiya ! Anyone here ?
<eylul> yes
<eylul> what's up CoderEurope?
<CoderEurope> Hiya - just wondering why Pitivi isn't included in US ?
<CoderEurope> & what can we do about it ?
<eylul> umm
<eylul> let me check something
<CoderEurope> okay brb
<eylul> CoderEurope: it should be in US by default. which version of Ubuntustudio are you using? Also did you upgrade to that version or installed fresh?
<CoderEurope> I haven't yet installed US - I am going to be a tester on Virtualbox using standard Ubuntu as a base
<eylul> ah. welcome then
<CoderEurope> Your part of the team ?
<eylul> but yeah we do have pitivi among the default programs, so if it is somehow not installing with the video meta, that is a bug. 
<eylul> yes. :)
<CoderEurope> Good -oh
<eylul> by the way you should join the mailing list if you haven't already
<CoderEurope> I shall
<eylul> a lot of the more in depth discussion happens there
<CoderEurope> yes, I see that.
<eylul> :)
<CoderEurope> good to talk - dont get a_lot of traction here on this #channel - So good-oh
<eylul> :) 
<eylul> the secret is to put the username of the person in your IRC reply
<CoderEurope> Wat IRC client is the best IYHO ?
<eylul> like CoderEurope I just did
<eylul> that will alert people you IMed them. A lot of people log the chat and check regularly even through we are not always there
<CoderEurope> yes I appreciate that :)
<CoderEurope> What the biggest bug on US at the moment, then  - that affects everyone ?
<CoderEurope> <difficult question> obviously :)
<eylul> well there isn't one GIANT bug as far as I know
<eylul> but there probably is a list of various outstanding issues. 
<eylul> we are currently working (Mostly ovenwerks) on ubuntustudio-controls (which does need some testing)
<eylul> packages are at the PPA for that: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild
<eylul> I know Ross has been going through a lot of other bugs, but I am not sure what else is there. 
<eylul> Cfhowlett hi! did you actually post the info about the holiday thing on the facebook? I couldn't find it
<eylul> (oh duh nvm) *is annoyed with facebook hiding things*
<cfhowlett> eh?   will link.  wait 1
<eylul> cfhowlett: found it, I was looking at the group, completely forgot the page also existed
<cfhowlett> and I just realized that group != page ...
<eylul> wait
<eylul> was this meant for the group or the page?
<cfhowlett> best practice: both
<eylul> ok
<eylul> well I shared with group
<cfhowlett> cool.  I'll put the pics there as well.
<eylul> so you did say twitter
<eylul> did you create a twitter account?
<cfhowlett> yeah, turns out we already had one.  I completely forgot about it!
<cfhowlett> I'm beginning to think a dedicated social media person might be a good position
<eylul> lol
<eylul> well you might end up finding yourself in that task, if you keep this up :D
<cfhowlett> we also could use some multilingual support.  Too many threads go unanswered in FB and G+ because they are not in Englih.
<eylul> *nods*
<eylul> well one step at a time
<eylul> (also I don't see the post on twitter)
<cfhowlett> let me look
<eylul> https://twitter.com/ubuntustudio/
<cfhowlett> whaaaaaaaaaa!?
<cfhowlett> I sent a link to US ... where the heck ??
<eylul> you mean you mentioned the account?
<eylul> that doesn't show
<eylul> it needs to be manually retweeted by the account, or sent from the account
<cfhowlett> yep.  that means we lose traffic though
<eylul> that's how twitter works, and is why somebody should ideally be regularly checking and updating social media accounts
<eylul> :)
<eylul> ok I need to run
<cfhowlett> got it.
<eylul> CoderEurope: welcome to the team, and as I said before, do not forget to join the Mailing List. and feel free to drop a question on IM, we'll answer eventually. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-12-13
<tarzeau> anyone needs tutka? i've made packages
<tarzeau> shotcut?
<tarzeau> frinika/frinika-studio is java... yuck not going to look further at it
<tarzeau> but chibitracker is packaged also
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-12-09
<brainskan> Hi everyone. I logged in here to see how I can volunteer to help with Ubuntu Studio development. I have used Ubuntu Studio as my primary OS for the past 2-3 years and like it a lot. I'm 50 years old and have been a computer enthusiast my whole life, from when computers first started appearing in homes in the early 1980s. I have had parts of my job involved in aspects of I.T. during my career, but I have never 
<brainskan>  programmer or IT person.  I would consider myself more of a power user that can do a little coding. My day job is running an accounting department for a manufacturing company. I would like to have an excuse to dive deeper in the Linux operatings system. I have built apps from source code a few times (Supercollider and a couple others), but I don't claim that I know a lot about that process right now. I could 
<brainskan> yself how to create packages of apps. I'm pretty good at writing instructions or documentation. I have acted as a trainer and teacher. My main hobby outside of work is doing digital music and art. That's why I use Ubuntu Studio.
<brainskan> I don't know how active this chat is. If I am not here later, feel free to reach me at brianj.romaing@protonmail.com. I just need to be pointed in a direction, and I can figure out what I need to do.
<brainskan> I joined the mail list and setup an a Ubuntu One/Launchpad account. I don't know what a Launchpad account is, but I have one. :-)
<OvenWerks> all sounds good.
<OvenWerks> brainskan: I am sure Eickmeyer will drop in at some point and say hi as well.
<OvenWerks> we are both West coast North America (Canada/US) so UTC -800 hours will tell you what day and night is for us.
<OvenWerks> (summer is -700)
<OvenWerks> testing is a big thing for sure. by your comment about Supercollider, I would assume your main focus is audio.
<brainskan> Hi OvenWerks. Yes. My main focus is audio. I mainly work in Bitwig, but tinker also with audio programming environments like Supercollider, CSound and Pure Data. I pretty regularly work on digital collage pieces in GIMP and just started doing some small video pieces in KDEnlive.
<brainskan> I'm on the east coast of the U.S. near Washington DC.
<brainskan> Nice to meet you.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: Welcome! Feel free to hang-out and see where you would fit-in best. I can tell you this: we (OvenWerks and myself) can't do support alone.
<OvenWerks> documentation is certainly a place that could use some help.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: Monitor the #ubuntustudio IRC channel as well as the ubuntu-studio tag in askubuntu.com. That would help significantly.
<brainskan> Is there a list of open tasks somewhere?
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: As OvenWerks said, documentation is a place that could use some love.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: Not really.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: We do very little actual coding to be honest. Ubuntu Studio Controls and Ubuntu Studio Installer are our only two items with any real code that we do. Everything else is purely upstream or packaged.
<brainskan> Fair enough.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: If you want to, OvenWerks and I have a wishlist item to convert Ubuntu Studio Installer to Python 3 from tk/tcl.
<brainskan> Would it be helpful if I learned how to make packages? Maybe nothing is needed right now, but I could start teaching myself that.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: You can experiment with that all you want! I don't have the link off the top of my head, but google "Ubuntu Packaging Guide" and "Debian Packaging" and that should show you the guides.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: I've been doing packaging for almost 2 years and I still don't have it completely down. lol
<brainskan> The current installer is in an older version of Python? tk/tcl is the old/original graphics framework for making a gui, right? Are you trying to change that to Qt or something? I just recently started teaching myself python. There are a few things at my work I would like to use that for. So that might be a good extra excuse to focus on it more.
<brainskan> LOL. I'm not afraid to dive in and figure things out. I'm a lifelong noob at everything :-)  It's an attitude of discovery and wonder.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: No, you're thinking of Ubiquity.
<Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-installer | brainskan
<ubottu> brainskan: Ubuntu Studio Installer is an app that can be used to add Ubuntu Studio's benefits to an existing Ubuntu (or official flavor) installation, or add additional packages. For more info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioInstaller
<brainskan> Got it. I will go take a look at that later and see if it's something I could commit to jumping into.
<Eickmeyer> Yep! Code is at https://launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-installer
 * OvenWerks actually likes tcl/tk better than python but knows that there are more people who know python...
<brainskan> Got that page on Launchpad. I will figure out how to "subscribe" to it, or whatever the correct term is, so I can find it later.
<Eickmeyer> brainskan: Probabaly just bookmark it?
<Eickmeyer> There's no real "subscribing" to projects in launchpad. :/
<Eickmeyer> What's your launchpad link, @brainskan?
 * Eickmeyer has been @-ing people, using a different chat platform has given me bad habits :D
<brainskan> Is this a launchpad link? https://launchpad.net/~brainskan
<Eickmeyer> Yes.
<brainskan> My ID is the same over there: "brainskan"
<Eickmeyer> Welcome to the dev team. :)
<Eickmeyer> Feel free to play around with the code in ubuntustudio-installer. It's a git repo, so if you have experience with that, you should know what you're doing.
<Eickmeyer> Here's a great way to work with Launchpad using git: 
<Eickmeyer> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git
<OvenWerks> brainskan: you should use a development branch because tcl -> python is basically a rewrite
<brainskan> Thanks! I understand the git thing a little. I will figure out how to pull a copy so I can look at it.
<Eickmeyer> Yep, just create a development branch and you should be good to go.
<Eickmeyer> Don't touch the debian folder. We'll worry about that later. :)
<brainskan> I will take a few days to digest all this, read some code, see what I think I could help with, stuff like that.
<brainskan> I won't write anything or upload/commit (whatever the right word is).
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, go for it. Looks like you're plenty motivated. We've had people come in here and ask us to put them to work as opposed to looking for it, if you know what I mean.
<brainskan> I know how that goes. It takes time and energy to manage people. Sometimes it isn't actually helpful when people just keep asking for guidance and need too much training. I mean, intentions are great and all. But that stuff uses energy.
<brainskan> My day gig is calling. Gotta get some deadlines met. Nice to meet you guys! I will dig into this stuff you talked about and pop back in another time soon.
<OvenWerks> o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-12-12
<OvenWerks> wonko: I have pushed something to master, feel free to have a look
<OvenWerks> wonko: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/autobuild if you just want an install
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this should fix zizta-ajbrdige going to 100% cpu
<wonko> I'll definitely check that out!
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't know if this will affect you or not, I am on 18.04 and with the autobuild I can set the governor to either powersave or performance and stop start -controls and it still shows last chosen mode. (also after reboot)
<OvenWerks> wonko: if you work on it, do a save and push before anything else to catch any of my non-pep whatever
<OvenWerks> wonko: feel free to change the config file to whatever format
<OvenWerks>  I am thinking what we have may just not work in the long run as it is possible to have jack port names that include spaces and other charactors I might choose as separators
<OvenWerks> wonko: it would be nice to be able to save pulse bridges as:
<OvenWerks> [[name, connect_to], [name2, connect_to2]]
<OvenWerks> wonko: it isn't mentioned anywhere... :)  but for "Auto Connect Port" if the connection is to system:*_? it is ok to just use the first port number.
<OvenWerks> so for example a connect to port of 1 will connect the left pulse to system:playback_1 and the right pulse to system:playback_2
<OvenWerks> wonko: the reason I suggest changing the config file format is that I want to do something similar to the pule tab for USB and extra devices
<OvenWerks> Each device may have more than just one parameter for each device. [device, portname_in, portname_out, in_connect, out_connect]
<OvenWerks> wonko: here is an auto connect for phones out being different inside pulse: http://i.imgur.com/nAoLLeM.png
<OvenWerks> wonko: I don't know if thats the kind of thing you were looking for.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Sorry for the absence, I'll do what I can test.
<Eickmeyer> *to test
<OvenWerks> busy time of year no worries
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-12-14
<Artto> Dear contributors! I went to Ubuntu Studio homepage to propose an idea to implement into Ubuntu Studio. May I write it here or do I need to send it via another channel/way?
<Artto> Hello? :)
<Artto> OK, if someone can answer, please send the answer to v6itja@protonmail.com - I am closing this window now :)  Thanks!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Playing around with the latest autobuild of -controls: CPU governor setting still not being remembered (was fine with repo version, not autobuild version), a2jmidid is not starting, pulse bridges don't start, USB bridges are not starting. Only Jack itself starts. I suspect a change to how it handles zita?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: which OS (version)
<OvenWerks> which python version?
<OvenWerks> (3.?)
<Eickmeyer> Whatever is in 19.10, so guessing 3.
<Eickmeyer> Are you developing this in/for 18.04 or 19.10?
<OvenWerks> it sh9ould work either way.... it does here. I have not changed the way the governor is set
<Eickmeyer> Python in 19.10 is 3.7.5
<Eickmeyer> Where is the config saved again?
<OvenWerks> controls config is now ~/.config/autojack/autojackrc
<OvenWerks> but it should read the old one ~/.config/autojackrc as well
<Eickmeyer> I deleted the entire ~/.config/autojack directory, no changes.
<OvenWerks> governor setting is kept in /etc/default/ubuntustudio
<Eickmeyer> I'm rebooting.
<OvenWerks> There should be no difference in the cpu governor chain of operation since last release.
<Eickmeyer> Then -controls isn't properly parsing /etc/defaut/ubuntustudio or the governor.
<OvenWerks> does here
<Eickmeyer> Interesting. Might be my AMD processor.
<Eickmeyer> Do you remember how to read the CPU governor?
<OvenWerks> are you using 19.10 or 20.04 alpha?
<Eickmeyer> 19.10
<OvenWerks> /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor
<Eickmeyer> That doesn't exist past cpu* on my system.
<Eickmeyer> Aha! Something changed between kernels: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CPU_frequency_scaling
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
<Eickmeyer> Looks like we might need to requrie something and add linux-tools-common as a dependency.
<OvenWerks> which kernel I don't see anything beyond 3.4
<OvenWerks> and we are even 18.04 at 4.15
<Eickmeyer> Hmmm... something changed then. Setting the CPU governor used to be possible in controls, but isn't any longer. I don't know what changed. I guess I'll have to review the commits.
<OvenWerks> try /usr/bin/pkexec /usr/sbin/ubuntustudio-system performance
<OvenWerks> and the same with ondemand
<Eickmeyer> No response from either.
<OvenWerks> So no errors then
<OvenWerks> do you have a cpu speed monitor?
<Eickmeyer> I don't have one open, but I could...
<OvenWerks> Cause if that doesn't work, the gui can't help as it just calls that.
<OvenWerks> there are two files that set cpu speed, /usr/sbin/ubuntustudio-system and /lib/systemd/ubuntustudio
<Eickmeyer> I'm looking at it.
<OvenWerks> The systemd one is for boot and the other is on the fly changes
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> they both seem to change frequency the same way.
<Eickmeyer> Got this when removing a pulse input bridge: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WfFWVbxVYc/
<Eickmeyer> If removing the only input bridge, it will not add it back.
<Eickmeyer> In fact, the entre interface has no response at that point.
<OvenWerks> which is sort of reasonable
<Eickmeyer> Actually, it adds it, but apparently the entire interface just fails to respond at that error.
<OvenWerks> ok
<Eickmeyer> The "Auto Connect Port" needs to be more intuitive. Manually typing-in a port doesn't work since most people won't know what to type there.
<Eickmeyer> wonko: You around?
<wonko> Kinda
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I have thought a lot about that... I had thought to have a drop down with possible ports.
<OvenWerks> however, if something like Ardour is running with any sized session the list is very long
<OvenWerks> I will fix the index problem though
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Pulse should only be set to automatically connect to hardware, never software unless the user manually goes into a patchbay to do that themselves.
<Eickmeyer> So, let's leave software ports out of it and only keep hardware ports.
<Eickmeyer> wonko: Just wanted you involved in this conversation since you've been helping with -controls a lot.
<wonko> Ok, let me see if I can find the time to read scrollback
<Eickmeyer> wonko: No worries.
<Eickmeyer> I'm just seeing a lot of bugs that, unless we squash them, I'm not comfortable with releasing into an LTS.
<Eickmeyer> I'll help with the AMD governor issues as much as I can.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  no worries it is not ready... but the cpu part does worry me.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  I would take a look at /lib/systemd/set-cpufreq
<OvenWerks>  on your system and see if it loooks in more than one place
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It doesn't exist.
<OvenWerks> oh my
<Eickmeyer> Oops.. typo. Hold on...
<Eickmeyer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vjYWzpJpSx/
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's there, I just typo'd and it gave me a "not found" error.
<OvenWerks> That looks identical to mine
<OvenWerks> I am going to reboot
<OvenWerks> installing 19.10
<Eickmeyer> OK
<OvenWerks> So far cpu governor works... but I have not installed latest controls yet... Install not finished
<OvenWerks> After installing I will have to update so this may take a while
<Eickmeyer> Ok. No worries.
<OvenWerks> in the new year there will be an AMD system in the house which I will be able to play with during school hours...
<Eickmeyer> Hahahaha! Sounds like a plan. :D
<OvenWerks> I have so far had no success whatsoever with firewire stuff
<Eickmeyer> Oof.
<OvenWerks> I even tried studio 14.04
<OvenWerks> (I think thats the oldest I have)
<Eickmeyer> Maybe, for the sake of LTS, we might have to depricate firewire. Most of those devices are 10+ years old. While I understand the high monetary investment, but we can't keep supporting ancient hardware.
<OvenWerks> Some people have had it run.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, but it's hit/miss. We can't guarantee it.
<Eickmeyer> And, likely, for those that can't get their firewire to run, it's a kernel issue.
<OvenWerks> I will continue to work on it (later) but ya, we should probably take it out of controls for now
<Eickmeyer> Feature Freeze is February 27th, FYI.
<OvenWerks> make a mention that if the FW alsa drivers work it should just show up otherwise it will take more work on the user's part
<Eickmeyer> Yep. I'll stick that on my list.
<OvenWerks> I have tried three fw cards so far. And they show up but do not show that anything is connected to them
<Eickmeyer> Even after reboot?
<OvenWerks>  I will order another cable just in case... 
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, best to rule-out hardware issues.
<OvenWerks> I have booted with it pluged and powered, with out
<OvenWerks> every combo I could think of. I should try the generic kernel too (I have tried both lolat and liquorix
<Eickmeyer> That says a lot.
<OvenWerks> Well this unit would personally double my inputs and leave no longer dependent on having PCI slots
<Eickmeyer> Ok, gotta go.
<OvenWerks> k
<OvenWerks> I will leave various grunts as I go...
<Eickmeyer> Hehe
<OvenWerks> Ga!, thunar no longer has a delete option... we are stuck with the trashcan :P
<OvenWerks> safer but anoying
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: installed "new controls" on 19.10. cpo governor works.
<OvenWerks> including reboot
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Wonderful. Perhaps it's time for me to wipe my install.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: The only thing I can't tell is if AMD has those values somewhere else
<OvenWerks> but that web page you gave doesn't say anything about AMD being different
<Eickmeyer> True.
<Eickmeyer> Might be my install then.
<OvenWerks> (and arch is normally pretty good)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<OvenWerks> I would almost say that with ondemand, performance is better (is on intel for sure)
<OvenWerks> There were some tests done where it was found that performance used less power/battery than ondemand whenthings are almost idle
<Eickmeyer> Makes sense, even though weird.
<OvenWerks> peromance can put the cpu in idle with no monitoring of cpu use but ondemand has to wake the processor up frequently to see if it needs to speed up for more load
<OvenWerks> The extra wake ups use more power
<OvenWerks> Then when the cpu is being used, ondemand increases cpu speed anyway
<Eickmeyer> I mean, it makes sense, but just seems as though ondemand is counterproductive for whatever is being accomplished.
<OvenWerks> Thats why intel doesn't use it anymore :)
<Eickmeyer> And it
<Eickmeyer> 's possible that AMD doesn't anymore, which would make sense why I'm having difficulty.
<Eickmeyer> To be honest, I haven't even tested to see what the governor is set-at when I make the change.
<OvenWerks> cpu speed monitors do that pretty good. I use the xfce panel plugin: cpufreq
<Eickmeyer> Aha. Figured it out. AMD doesn't even have a CPU governor anymore. I speculate that the reason is exactly what we discussed.
<OvenWerks> so it always shows performance or ondemand?
<OvenWerks> Or does it allow setting highest lowest speed?
<OvenWerks> we need to test for that then and disable the dropdown.
<Eickmeyer> It always shows ondemand in -controls, but there is now governor showing in any utility I've tried, meaning the governor may not exist, which means -controls just can't parse it and defaults.
<Eickmeyer> *no governor
<OvenWerks> cpufrequtils?
<Eickmeyer> cpufreq-info -g gives no response.
<OvenWerks> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.15/admin-guide/pm/cpufreq.html
<OvenWerks> lots to read
<OvenWerks> AMD does have boost: Turbo-Core
<Eickmeyer> That depends on the processor. Mine does not.
<OvenWerks> gotta run
<Eickmeyer> K, see ya.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: When you get back, the mystery deepens: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/S7XMR4Zcck/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-12-15
<Eickmeyer> Gdflk7sj
<Eickmeyer> Dang dog...
<OvenWerks> cool, what is the official speed of your cpu?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: is your cpu rated at 2.6G then?
<Eickmeyer> 2.6Ghz
<Eickmeyer> Turbo boost goes to 3.3Ghz
<OvenWerks> Ya, I see that, my boost is much lower compared to normal
<OvenWerks> Mine is 3.2 but goes only till 3.6 (I think)
<Eickmeyer> My new machine is 3.4 boost to 3.9.
<OvenWerks> My son's is something like that too.
<OvenWerks> Basically, in intel speak, Your default setup is boost on and CPU controls the speed
<OvenWerks> This the same as intel boost on and powersave.
<Eickmeyer> Soooooo... basically, AMD controls everything, including the governor.
<OvenWerks> It looks like we can turn turbo boost off, but not set governor to OS control... with the kernel you have
<Eickmeyer> Strange, used to be able to do that. I wonder what changed.
<OvenWerks> First of all, a scaling driver has to be registered for CPUFreq to work. It is only possible to register one scaling driver at a time, so the scaling driver is expected to be able to handle all CPUs in the system.
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha. I might check a different install to see if there's an issue. If not, then it's likely my install got borked somehow.
<OvenWerks> Al,ost like the module that got loaded was the wrong one for the cpu
<OvenWerks> The page I am reading is for kernel 4.15... which happens to be what we have in 18.04. My liquerix is a 5.4
<Eickmeyer> Clean install has same issue. I'm guessing the module got removed from Ubuntu or the kernel.
<OvenWerks> If you encounter a problem while using this driver, add intel_pstate=disable to your kernel line. 
<OvenWerks> The module you should find is acpi-cpufreq
<OvenWerks> So far as I can tell we don't ship that... I see: amd_freq_sensitivity.ko  p4-clockmod.ko  speedstep-lib.ko
<Eickmeyer> Just modprobed that and no response, so assuming OK. intel_pstate=disable was added to the command line. Still showing  'no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU'.
<OvenWerks> does lsmod |grep amd
<OvenWerks> show anything
<Eickmeyer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Dcx5jyDDDk/
<OvenWerks> so modprobe amd_freq_sensitivity does that help or work?
<Eickmeyer> still no or unknown cpufreq driver
<OvenWerks> does lsmod |grep amd show it loaded?
<Eickmeyer> Yep, shows loaded.
<OvenWerks> and the first line of cpupower frequency-info
<OvenWerks> doesn't show that as the driver?
<OvenWerks> (mine says: driver: intel_pstate
<Eickmeyer> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4kGwVJwrwZ/
<Eickmeyer> That's exactly what it shows.
<OvenWerks> no driver
<Eickmeyer> Exactly. Something in 19.10 got screwed up.
<Eickmeyer> Confirmed with two different installations. I might up this one to 20.04 to see if that changes anything.
<OvenWerks> sounds like a kernel bug
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> which release did it last work with?
<Eickmeyer> It definitely worked in 19.04.
<OvenWerks> liquerix includes acpi-cpufreq.ko
<OvenWerks> *liquorix
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: for the generic kernel maybe this is not a problem but for lowlatency work it matters
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed.
<Eickmeyer> I'm prepping my machine to upgrade to Focal.
<OvenWerks> I may do that as well
<Eickmeyer> I'm also opening autobuilds for focal.
<OvenWerks> Ok, controls bug 1 and two fixed (pulseout remove button works now, displaying no bridge works and does not error.
<ubottu> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<OvenWerks> :) thankyou ubottu
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: With regard to connections for pulse. A simple number still works. For example 1 is the same as system:capture_1 (and _2) (or playback)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That's still not intuitive.
<OvenWerks> :) no
<OvenWerks> but it is there. I an thinking that for the first bridge set up that should be the default
<Eickmeyer> Agreed.
<OvenWerks> to be honest, I am not sure what would be intuitive
<OvenWerks> (that is at the same time reasonably easy to do)
<Eickmeyer> A drop-down with only hardware connections. No software, let patchbay software handle that.
<OvenWerks> And not midi
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<OvenWerks> That would mean it could only be set if jack is actually running
<Eickmeyer> Well, you could also make that a process where it sets right after Jack is started.
<Eickmeyer> However it was being done before was perfect.
<OvenWerks> Yes but... many people would expect to be able to set this before starting jack.
<OvenWerks> The way it was done before only dealt with the default output which was expected to go to jack master. It also used two entries
<OvenWerks> This will need some thought
<OvenWerks> There are people who want more than what we had before
<Eickmeyer> Then they need to use a patchbay. There's a reason we have a shortcut to Carla.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Not the connection so much as number of bridges and naming
<Eickmeyer> The bridges and the naming is going in a good direction. Just the default connections? That needs to be intuitive.
<OvenWerks> Ya, I know.
<Eickmeyer> Naming can be arbitrary. But the default connections cannot.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, There are a few things to fix first
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<Eickmeyer> I do like where it is going. It looks good, things are categorized... it's looking good.
<OvenWerks> I think I might just do system:* and have a drop down that goes from 1-2 to 15-16 or 31-32. I will make the system:capture part of the label
<Eickmeyer> That might work.
<OvenWerks> (when jack is not running) when jack is running we can rebuild to the actual number the device has.
<Eickmeyer> Not a bad idea!
<OvenWerks> BTW, I am not going to worry about AMD cpu speeds at this point. I think it is straight driver problems and not something I can really work on.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I agree.
<Eickmeyer> Just updated to Focal, we'll see what's going on.
<Eickmeyer> Nope, same issue.
<OvenWerks> two bug reports? or one
<Eickmeyer> Just the cpufreq issue
<OvenWerks> Should be a bug report agaist 19.10 that is still there in 20.04
<Eickmeyer> I'm not even looking at -controls right now. No cpufreq driver still in 20.04.
<OvenWerks> right, that is where the bug should be
<OvenWerks> -controls just deals with what the os gives it.... which is nothing in this case
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Just filed bug 1856440 against the kernel in 20.04. I doubt any bug will get fixed and backported for 19.10.
<ubottu> bug 1856440 in linux (Ubuntu) "cpufreq: no or unknown cpufreq driver" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1856440
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I have fixed the errors with no pulse bridges on one side or the other
<OvenWerks> I have not yet fixed the connection display. but I need to do other things so I pushed what I have.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Cool
