#ubuntu-touch 2012-05-07
<doug> is there a complement to pinch in utouch?
<doug> like, spread?
<cnd> doug, pinch does both pinch and spread
<cnd> doug, when you pinch, the ratio goes below 1
<cnd> when you spread, the ratio goes above 1
<scientes> i just got a new multitouch big 22"er
<scientes> and while multitouch seems to work at the evdev layer, I havn't gotten gestures to work
<scientes> are all multitouch 3 and 4 touch capable?
<scientes> or are some only 2 touch capable?
<scientes> do i have to launch something?
<doug> cnd: cool.
<scientes> i canahh ok, its a 2 touch only
<cnd> scientes, yeah, many touchscreens are only two touch capable :(
<scientes> cnd, i dont seem to be getting even two touch in my interface/unity however
<scientes> how can i test the software stack?
<scientes> i'm not getting two touch zoom in/out for example
<cnd> scientes, we don't really have any two touch gestures on touchscreens yet
<cnd> those are application gestures
<scientes> ahh.... :(
<cnd> and we have been focusing on unity and the input architecture
<scientes> i was expecting 2 touch pinch-zoom, rotate, and tap-move
<cnd> yeah, we need developers to add gestures to their applications
<scientes> well i saw the youtube demo of ginn with libreoffice
<scientes> how do i turn that on?
<scientes> i tried launching from terminal
<scientes> and it still didn't seem to work
<scientes> sometimes when i put two fingers down a get this wierd thing, im pinching in the vertical direction, but the cursor goes left/right
<scientes> left on wide, right on pinch
#ubuntu-touch 2012-05-08
<scientes> do i need xserver-xorg-input-[multitouch|mtrack] ?
#ubuntu-touch 2012-05-09
<burli> good morning :)
<burli> Is it true, that Unity 2D will be dumped in 12.10?
<dandrader> bregma, ping
<bregma> 'sup, dandrader?
<dandrader> do you have plans on adding API in utouch-geis to expose this "construction finished" property from grail?
<bregma> well, it needs to be done
<bregma> I'm not sure what the best approach is, though
<bregma> it could either be an attribute of an event, or a special event itself
<dandrader> why not doing the same way grail does
<dandrader> bregma, because I won't get a working implementation of gestures in unity using the regular recognizer until this new API is in place. Should I start looking into it myself?
<bregma> what's the use case?  Is it something an app really needs to poll every time, or is it something that should be checked once? that determines the best way to report the information
<dandrader> bregma, where are you physically located
<dandrader> ?
<dandrader> maybe we could just chat
<dandrader> (for real, that is)
<bregma> I'm going to get a coffee on the second floor....
<dandrader> ok, will be there.
<burli> alloha
<dandrader> hi
#ubuntu-touch 2012-05-10
<WebVisitor-0> hi
<WebVisitor-0> I'm making some test with utouch-qml
<WebVisitor-0> I have a Elo TouchSystems panel
<WebVisitor-0> ..that with enac's multitouch-hid drivers seems work (http://lii-enac.fr/en/architecture/linux-input/multitouch-devices.html)
<WebVisitor-0> and I made a simple QtQuick example with UTouchPichArea
<WebVisitor-0> the problem is that Qt recognizes only 6/7 pinch movement on 10 pinchs
<WebVisitor-0> I have another display ( ID 04dd:94c5 Sharp Corp.), that is not listed on enac's list.. It works in same way.. but even bad..
<WebVisitor-0> it works only 3/4 pinchs on 10
<WebVisitor-0> is it a normal beheviour? ..or is something about hardware or software?
<WebVisitor-7> hi, I'm making some test with utouch-qml. I have a Elo TouchSystems panel that with enac's multitouch-hid drivers seems work (http://lii-enac.fr/en/architecture/linux-input/multitouch-devices.html) and I made a simple QtQuick example with UTouchPichArea. The problem is that Qt recognizes only 6/7 pinch movement on 10 pinchs. I have another display ( ID 04dd:94c5 Sharp Corp.), that is not listed on enac's list.. It works in s
<WebVisitor-7>  pinchs on 10, is it a normal beheviour? ..or is something about hardware or software?
<cnd> WebVisitor-7, this may be an issue resolved in a couple bug fixes in utouch-geis that haven't gone through the stable release update process yet
<cnd> you can try ppa:utouch-team/daily to see if things work better
<cnd> it is possible, however, that the display just doesn't work very well
<WebVisitor-7> hi ... I tried also utouch-team/daily but with the same results. Both the monitors are OK with windows
#ubuntu-touch 2012-05-13
<scientes> how can i get multitouch working in X, it works with evdev, i only have 2 touch support
#ubuntu-touch 2013-05-06
<rickspencer3> bobweaver, looking at your xmlistmodel question
<rickspencer3> does it not work to simply end your query at /ProgramGuid/Channels/ChannelInfo" for the listmodel
<rickspencer3> ?
<raj_> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<tsdgeos> t1mp_: ping
<Guest3827> Hello, is it possible to install "apps" on unity-next installed on a ubuntu 13.04 device?
<YellowRoze> Hi. I thought I'd try the stuff out on my tf101 (asus transformer) and I've managed put the files on my device and booted up enough to get a login prompt (text mode so far).
<YellowRoze> I can see with dmesg that ubuntu-session is respawning alot but I never get anything visual. Is there some logfile somewhere I can start poking in to see why it won't start?
<Safa_[A_boy]> Hi, is there anyway to check that the tablet device allow unlocking the bootloader ?
<rtg_> rsalveti, ogra_: "phablet-flash -b" to an N4 (from a Precise workstation) works OK, but "phablet-flash --series saucy" seg faults.
<ogra_> heh, we dont have downloadable images yet
<ogra_> though --series called with a wrong arg should indeed not segfault ..
<rtg_> ogra_, huh, guess maybe tahts why
<ogra_> sergiusens, ^^^
 * ogra_ is just fiddling with a hacky way to provide saucy builds ... we are missing the cross toolchain and bionic in the archive to roll the boanry that needs to go into the update.zip ...
<sergiusens> ogra_: rtg_ probably is, will check on the series thing crashing and make the help better in stating that it should generally not be used
<ogra_> with luck we should have interim zips  tonight though
<sergiusens> ogra_: I can wrap the zip into the jenkins builds if it will take more time
<rtg_> ogra_, cool, though it'll be Wednesday before I can test kernels. I'm traveling to Portland tomorrow.
<ogra_> sergiusens, nah, we need the code on cdimage anyway
<ogra_> its just that i have to create it out of boounds until we can build the binary content
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, I was suggesting jenkins to be the out of bounds ;-)
<sergiusens> as an interim
<ogra_> rtg_, well, yu can just use raring images and flip the sources.list
<ogra_> sergiusens, so you would pull the tarball from nusakan (which you cant access) and do the zipping ?
<sergiusens> take into account that you will lose networking and telephony when you update
<ogra_> yeah
<sergiusens> right, I can't access nusakan... depending on how long it will take we can setup for it or not
 * sergiusens feels really tired
 * ogra_ too
<ogra_> silly jetlag
<sergiusens> yeah, don't feel I'll get much done today :-/
 * ogra_ doubts anyone expects that
<ogra_> until wed. i'm operating on half power here too ... slightly raising over the days
<ogra_> awww
<ogra_> thats why my autodeploy.zip doesnt work ... heh
 * ogra_ changes it to not use ubuntu_tmp_foo/binary but just /ubuntu_tmp_foo in the mv ... 
<sergiusens> ogra_: it's the small things that always break :-)
<ogra_> it would be so nice if it wouldnt just go into a reboot if it cant find /data/ubuntu
<ogra_> so you could inspect without acrobatics on the buttons to get into recovery again
<Miura> hello guys, I'm with one doubt, can you help me?
<Miura> i'm thinking of start developing for ubuntu touch, so.. one question.. do you guys test your apps on a emulator or directly in the phone?
<kenvandine> Miura, i test on both my desktop and my nexus 7
<Miura> Hmm, thank you xP
<Miura> someone know some team that is porting for galaxy s3?
<sergiusens> ogra_: hmmm, I wonder if changing the exit code for the update script would do the trick and block the reboot
<ogra_> sergiusens, well, after the container flip it wont matter anymore
<ogra_> yay, that worked
<sergiusens> ogra_: how's the container flip progressing?
<ogra_> not started yet
<ogra_> i need a working brain for that
<pmcgowan> ogra_, it seems the mtp remount thing is in the way of my flashing today
<pmcgowan> is that possible?
<ogra_> yeah
<pmcgowan> it seems worse using the nexus 10
<pmcgowan> cant get the flash to go through
<pmcgowan> ogra_, did you find a workaround?
<rtg_> pmcgowan, the only workaround I've discovered is to use a Precise workstation
<pmcgowan> it was ok in quantal as well
<pmcgowan> raring its like every 20 secs
<ogra_> gimme a sec
<ogra_> pmcgowan, move /lib/udev/rules.d/69-libmtp.rules out of the way
<ogra_> (might need a reboot, not sure if udev caches anything)
<ogra_> in raring mtp handling was fixed (was pretty broken before all the time) ...
<ogra_> now we have a device that gets recognized as mtp device but doesnt have the device specific bits needed for the mounting
<ogra_> there is also bug 1160847
<ubot5> bug 1160847 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfs should not attempt to mount MTP devices in an endless loop (cluttering your desktop with messages)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160847
<seb128> ogra_, we should look at the suggestion a) the upstream guy did on that bug, e.g making the device advertise that mtp handling is not activated
<pmcgowan> ogra_, seb128 agreed
<pmcgowan> added  a rule to skip the 10
<ogra_> seb128, nope we should instead fix our devices
<ogra_> like ... adding mtp support :)
<seb128> I except that is going to be harder
<sergiusens> seb128: ogra_ I'll see if I can make a change for tomorrow's build
<seb128> ogra_, and people were saying at the sprint that mtp's server side is patented by MS
<ogra_> sergiusens, that would need to happen in the ubuntu userspace i fear
<ogra_> ugh
<niklas> Hey, is it possible to install the core apps on unity-next installed on 13.04??
<seb128> sergiusens, do you know how to do that?
<sergiusens> ogra_: then it won't happen in tomorrow's build :-/
<ogra_> sergiusens, well, if its trivial to provide from the android side, doit
<sergiusens> seb128: I thought it was just an android property...
<seb128> sergiusens, it could be
<ogra_> if its just a property, then yeah, just do it
<niklas> Hey, is it possible to install the core apps on unity-next installed on 13.04??
<sergiusens> seb128: ogra_ ok, if I can confirm it, I'll have it in tomorrow's build
<seb128> sergiusens, thanks
<ogra_> i would suspect that you need some lib stuff too though
<ogra_> and if what seb128 said is true that might be problematic
<seb128> ogra_, well, disabling mtp is not problematic, having a server implementation would be
<sergiusens> ogra_: I'll track it down
<seb128> ogra_, but yeah, that was raised as an issue at the sprint, and something that needs to be looked at
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I disabled the mtp for nexus 10 and now I get no permissions when I go to use adb?
<ogra_> seb128, oh, i understood sergiusens wanted to enable it for the android side
<seb128> ogra_, no, I think he wants to turn off the flag that advertise mtp support
<seb128> well, that's what I understood
<pmcgowan> ogra_, did you actually try moving that rules file out of the way?
<ogra_> pmcgowan, note that adb access is ruled by udev-acl
<ogra_> how did you "disable the n10"
<pmcgowan> made a rule that said if id is n10 go to end
<ogra_> pmcgowan, yes, i dont have it on my chromebook and the world is fine for me
<pmcgowan> hmm, did not mount it or something
<ogra_> i wonder if yoour new rule somehow makes it skip udev-acl support
<ogra_> also, do you use adb from the archive ?
<pmcgowan> let me check should be
<ogra_> (since that ships the udev-acl bits)
<pmcgowan> yes
<pmcgowan> from raring archive
<ogra_> no sdk installed or some such
<pmcgowan> ogra_, nope
<ogra_> then it should just work ... hmm
<ogra_> (definitely does here with the g-nex)
<pmcgowan> added this line at the top of the rules file
<pmcgowan> ATTR{idVendor}=="18d1", ATTR{idProduct}=="4ee2", GOTO="libmtp_rules_end"
<pmcgowan> doesnt make sense
<seb128> pmcgowan, try to
<seb128> run "adb kill-server" then "adb start-server"
<seb128> sometimes the adb server seems to be in a buggy state
<pmcgowan> seb128, tried that
<seb128> ok...
<pmcgowan> seb128, whats the first line in your /lib/udev/rules.d/69-libmtp.rules
<seb128> Unable to open ~/.mtpz-data for reading, MTPZ disabled.# UDEV-style hotplug map for libmtp
<seb128> # Put this file in /etc/udev/rules.d
<seb128> ACTION!="add", GOTO="libmtp_rules_end"
<seb128> "
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> same here
<pmcgowan> that looks bad
<ogra_> someone made soem mess there
<pmcgowan> not my problem i suspect but not right
<ogra_> iirc the rule is autogenerated during build
<ogra_> so that error gets spit into that file
<ogra_> yeah, itr shouldnt do any harm ... but is a wart
<seb128> I will have a look
<seb128> I was planning at doing the libmtp merge with debian this week anyway
<seb128> but yeah, probably a different issue than the device not detected by adb one
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> pmcgowan, did you reboot after changing the rule ?
<pmcgowan> ogra_, yes
<pmcgowan> rebooted then reinstered the devices
<pmcgowan> netither 4 nor 10 can be accessed
<ogra_> i suppose using sudo helps ?
<pmcgowan> nope
<ogra_> now thats weird
<ogra_> definitely should
<pmcgowan> ogra_, let me try rebooting, putting ti back etc
<sergiusens> ogra_: mumble
<ogra_> oops !
<ogra_> thanks
<pmcgowan> ogra_, seb128 so it works if I sudo adb startserver
<pmcgowan> never had to before
<ogra_> yeah and you shouldnt
<ogra_> works fine for me on raring here
<pmcgowan> ogra_, and you removed the file completely?
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> nothing else
<pmcgowan> weird
<pmcgowan> I have no more annoying popups and managed to flash
<pmcgowan> but not right
<ogra_> definitely not
<sergiusens> cyphermox: hey, I added a comment to https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/phablet-tools/fastboot-flashing/+merge/162424
<cyphermox> sergiusens: cool thanks
<Simon_> Simon_London
<Simon_> Hi All. Can I please get some advice on installing on my Nexus 4 When I attempt to install it I get the following "not enough space in /data found 2.7g" Any help would be really appriciated
<ahkuoi> during flash of Nexus 7 on step 3 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install 3.3 Plug the device into the computer via the USB cable.  Depending on the installed Android version, a popup will show up on the device with the host key that needs to be accepted for the device to communicate with the workstation.   *this wont show up * usb debugging is on.....build is 4.2.2... any help? i want ubuntu  thanks
<sergiusens> plars: hey, you avail for a quick test?
 * sergiusens has no mako
<plars> sergiusens: sure
<tassadar_> ahkuoi: try to type in "adb devices" to the terminal and see if your nexus 7 is listed as a "device" or as "offline"
<sergiusens> plars: http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/boot_mako.img it's the boot img with the saucy kernel instead of raring
<sergiusens> plars: just fastboot flash boot boot_mako.img
<ahkuoi> yes it is listed
<tassadar_> it depens what is the word after serial number - is it "device" or "offline"?
<plars> sergiusens: sure, grabbing it now
<ahkuoi> offline
<sergiusens> ty
<tassadar_> that's bad, it mean adb is not authentiticated
<ahkuoi> oh  so what should i do
<tassadar_> I suppose you've tried to re-plug the USB connector, right? I don't use 4.2.2, so I'm not familiar with this a lot
<plars> sergiusens: Linux ubuntu-phablet 3.4.0-1-mako #6-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Sat May 4 00:58:12 UTC 2013 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux
<ahkuoi> yes i did it thanks for your help  "tassadar"
<cyphermox> ahkuoi: when you do so there should be a dialog appearing on the phone to authenticate the device
<cyphermox> ahkuoi: otherwise, you might be running an outdated version of adb
<ahkuoi> no dialog is appearing thats the problem
<ahkuoi> so how to get/update new version
<plars> sergiusens: that doesn't look like the right version
<ahkuoi> Thankyou all of you for your help. Bye
<sergiusens> plars: from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-mako/+bug/1176255 it seems to be correct though
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1176255 in linux-mako (Ubuntu) "linux-mako fails to boot when built with gcc 4.8" [High,New]
<sergiusens> plars: am I correct or jetlagged? :-)
<ZDmitry> mhall119|away: ping
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: pong
<plars> sergiusens: shouldn't saucy be 3.9.?
<ZDmitry> I'm just done with latest revision of plugin and app of ubuntu-terminal
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: are there merge proposals you need reviewed?
<ZDmitry> Yes. And that are plugin and app.
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: ok, I'll give them a look
<mhall119|away> thanks
<ZDmitry> noting about
<sergiusens> plars: for desktop perhaps ;-)
<sergiusens> plars: this is the kernel from the android tree in an ubuntu package
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: is the work you're doing on this konsole plugin being submitted back upstream?
<ZDmitry> mhall119|away: If You  mean my original branch - no.
<plars> sergiusens: ah, right, this is the "saucy" android one :)
<plars> sergiusens: anyway, boots fine, seems to be doing ok so far
<plars> wifi works, etc
<sergiusens> plars: great!
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: it would be a good idea to let the konsole developers know what you're working on, and offer your code to them
<mhall119|away> a re-usable terminal widget in QML would be useful to a number of projects, not just the ubuntu-terminal-app
<ZDmitry> Then I'll inform them.
<ZDmitry> mhall119|away: I have some doubts about extra virtual keys which I added in ubuntu-terminal-app. They built on Button components, so label is autohiding. Can we do something with that? On small screen they has worst look than on PC.
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: dude, this is incredible stuff
<ZDmitry> mhall119|away: ^^
<ZDmitry> off course, it would be better to have additional layout on VKB, but we have what we have so!
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: they're functional as-is, we can fix the look later
<ZDmitry> that's true
<mhall119|away> ZDmitry: if you can change the debian/changelog on ubuntu-terminal-app to http://paste.ubuntu.com/5639735/ I will approve them
<ZDmitry> ok, wait a minute
<mhall119|away> thanks
<mhall119|away> thanks ZDmitry
<mhall119|away> approved
<ZDmitry> mhall119|away:  no problem
<sergiusens> veebers: hey!
<veebers> sergiusens: hello :-)
<sergiusens> veebers: do you have the annoying mtp message on raring?
<sergiusens> veebers: if so, what device?
<veebers> sergiusens: yes
<veebers> sergiusens: nexus 7
<sergiusens> veebers: ok, can you test a build for me in a minute or so?
<veebers> sergiusens: sure
<sergiusens> veebers: thanks, give me a sec and I'll provide link
<ZDmitry> mhall119|away: Jenkins waits for approval on https://code.launchpad.net/~hiroshidi/ubuntu-terminal-app/plugin-20130503/+merge/162666 to start autolanding. Latest ubuntu-terminal-app already landed and require latest plugin for proper work.
<sergiusens> veebers: http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/mtp/cm-10.1-20130506-UNOFFICIAL-grouper.zip
<sergiusens> om26er: that's an mzanetti thing, I keep it in my .ssh/config
<veebers> sergiusens: cool, grabbing it now
<veebers> sergiusens: ping
<sergiusens> veebers: pong
<veebers> sergiusens: hmm, after pushing and reboot recovery I get a blank screen. adb devices shows: ????????????	no permissions
<sergiusens> veebers: try and restart adb
#ubuntu-touch 2013-05-07
<veebers> sergiusens: I tried sudo adb start-server, adb devices shows the same error
<sergiusens> veebers: image might be busted. Can you revert with that thing I showed you a while back? I'll get a fix in the meantime...
<Lancertz> Does anybody know how wifi version of galaxy tab 10.1 is progressing?
<veebers> sergiusens: cool,  I'll try find those revert details
<Lancertz> Anybody home
<blmvxer> I'm messing around with Ubuntu Touch(raring) on my nexus 7, and I can access the native terminal app while using adb. but its a pain to have to plug it in and do all that jazz just to have it running. is there anyway I can remove some mock apps or move it forwared in the Installed apps list?
<diwic> Hi! I'm trying to install the Touch image on a Nexus 7, but I can't get it to show up in adb. I've tried both fastboot mode and recovery mode.
<diwic> (And the standard android is currently not available, can't boot into that.)
<wilee-nilee> diwic, You have the usb debug ticked in developer in android? you LOAD IT FRON THE TERMINAL.
<wilee-nilee> Sorry for the caps, lol
<diwic> wilee-nilee, I don't have android, the current install is ubuntu-desktop
<diwic> (sorry for the late answer)
<wilee-nilee> diwic, Yeah I figured that out Doh. I don't really have an answer as I thought it was just loading a install.
<diwic> wilee-nilee,  thanks anyway, hopefully somebody else comes around for some assistance.
<diwic> wilee-nilee, worst case I guess I could try reinstalling android just for flashing the touch image.
<popey> Morning
<popey> diwic: you may have to flash back to android using the process outlined on the /Touch/Install page on the wiki, to do a clean start
<diwic> popey, okay, so there is no way to "upgrade" directly from the desktop image to the touch image?
<popey> diwic: there may be, but I'm not aware of it, and we never documented one AFAIAA
<diwic> ok
<jGleitz> Morning!
<jGleitz> Does anybody know wether there will be an Emulator for Ubuntu Touch in the near future? Or is it somehow possible to run it in an VM?
<popey> hi jGleitz we're certainly investigating possibilities in that regard, but don't have a solution just yet for full system emulation
<jGleitz> popey: Alright, thank you
<dholbach> good morning
<mardy> is there a way for an application to know the device's form factor?
<mpt> cyphermox, hi, let me know when you're around to discuss Bluetooth on the phone. I'm going to start with just headsets since that's the only ELS item.
<diwic> mpt, I would also like to join
<mpt> ok
<Nicole> hello
<Guest65754> can anyone help me with nexus 10?
<Guest65754> I'm stuck at step2 from the instructions
 * mpt wonders how many subscribers https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bluetooth/ has
<seb128> mpt, ask StevenK, he's admin for the list and has access to the infos ;-)
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: seen the bug i've created for the hud?
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: no, I'll have a look
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: i can't speak anymore
<tsdgeos> says can't open audio device
<pete-woods> strange
<pete-woods> I haven't changed anything related to voice code in months
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: so I'm trying to debug this, but unity keeps recognising my Nexus 10 as an MTP device and trying to mount it, which disconnects the adb debugger
<pete-woods> is this some new "feature"?
<tsdgeos> yes
<tsdgeos> same thing greyback was just complaining about
<pete-woods> ahh
<greyback> tsdgeos: pray enlighten us :)
 * tsdgeos is looking thoruhg various irc logs, please be patient
<greyback> adb shell setprop persist.sys.usb.config ptp,adb ?
<tsdgeos> sothing like that
<tsdgeos> Saviq was the one that gave them to me
<greyback> doesn't appear to make any difference
<Saviq> greyback,
<pete-woods> is there a way to just turn off MTP support for the time-being?
<Saviq> adb shell setprop sys.usb.config ptp,adb
<Saviq> adb shell setprop persist.sys.usb.config ptp,adb
<Saviq> pete-woods, greyback, the former one sets it for the current session, the latter so that it persists across reboots
<tsdgeos> lunch!
<greyback> Saviq: I was missing the first one. Thanks
<pete-woods> Saviq: awesome, thanks!
<greyback> hmm, I'm still seeing USB removal/insertions
<popey> greyback: tsdgeos pete-woods: dconf-editor, org -> gnome -> desktop -> media-handling -> untick "automount" and the issue is gone
<greyback> popey: that works too, thanks
<pmcgowan> popey, is that the mtp mount thing
<popey> the popup you get from nautilus periodically, yes
<pmcgowan> popey, this is how I fixed it so mtp still works generally fwiw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1160847/comments/7
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1160847 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfs should not attempt to mount MTP devices in an endless loop (cluttering your desktop with messages)" [High,Confirmed]
<pmcgowan> we really need to fix the image to not declare it can do mtp
<seb128> popey, your workaround breaks automounting of usb keys, cameras, music players, etc
<seb128> just for info
<ogra_> pmcgowan, i thought sergiusens  wanted to look into that (either way, telling the host we cant do mtp should be equally sufficient ... just not giving any answer seems to be confusing)
<pmcgowan> ogra_, right
<popey> correct seb128 â»
<pmcgowan> seb128, my workaround is better for that
<popey> but then I hate all automounting â»
<seb128> pmcgowan, editing the libmtp udev file?
<pmcgowan> yes, and adding the other rule to avoid sudo
<ogra_> no, adding an additional rule
<seb128> ok
<ogra_> you can easily do it in a higher sequenced file
<pmcgowan> right
<pmcgowan> I am no udev rules expert
<seb128> well, best option is still to make the device tells that it doesn't support mtp if we can do that ... did we get any news from sergiusens on that?
<ogra_> not yet, nope
<ogra_> but he has been pinged a lot above now :)
<ogra_> i guess he will answer once he is here
<pete-woods> popey: the real problem with the MTP mount for me is not the messages, but that fact that it disconnects my adb shell
<pete-woods> making it impossible to debug apps on the phablet
<popey> pete-woods: ditto
 * popey tries the fix pmcgowan posted above and re-enables automounting
<seb128> pete-woods, turn off automount, you can also install openssh-server and ssh to the tablet rather than using adb
<pmcgowan> popey, has anyone set something to the email list yet?
<pmcgowan> pete-woods, use phablet-network-setup -i
<pmcgowan> but flashing gets interrupted, its bad
<popey> pmcgowan: not that I'm aware of, I thought i was the only one suffering with this
<popey> given I'd seen nobody mention it here
<pmcgowan> I think we are all hitting it on raring
<pmcgowan> host
<pmcgowan> popey, lets wait for sergio then send an update to the list
<mterry> Saviq, you mentioned using itemAt to find the delegate and just using delegate properties.  However...  itemAt takes x,y parameters, which is awkward when you have an index value.  Plus, let's say we eventually get around to adding keyboard navigation like the desktop greeter has.  Home will zoom to the first item in the list.  In such a case, will Qt create the delegate before it's on-screen?
<ogra_> xnox, do you have any idea which of http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/livecd-rootfs/saucy/files/head:/live-build/ubuntu-touch/hooks/ will be handled by the first boot wizard ?
<greyback> popey: it'll save you from this anyway: http://i.imgur.com/4jh40BH.jpg :D
<ogra_> (if any)
<greyback> popey: lots of error dialogs!
<pete-woods> popey, seb128: I followed Saviq's instructions to disable ptp, etc on the tablet, and that already worked
<pete-woods> but thanks for the help anyway! :)
<pmcgowan> seb128, is telepathy-ofono another python2.7 depender?
<doomlord> hows' ubuntu touch these days .... does it have a terminal app yet
<seb128> pmcgowan, it's using telepathy-python which is python2 yes
<pmcgowan> seb128, is it also written in python
<seb128> pmcgowan, but I think there is/was working ongoing to replace that
<pmcgowan> thats what I want to check on
<seb128> pmcgowan, I've that in my IRC logs
<seb128> Ubuntu Server-#ubuntu-touch.log:mars 04 19:47:29 <boiko>	matge: we have updated the telepathy specs in there, but at some point we will move away from telepathy-python
<pmcgowan> seb128, ack
<seb128> pmcgowan, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdev-1303-apps-telephony has
<seb128>  [tiagosh] Port telepathy-ofono away from python-telepathy: INPROGRESS
<seb128>  telepathy-ofono analysis/rewrite (not rely on telepathy-python): TODO
<seb128> pmcgowan, so I guess tiago/gustavo have the details
<ogra_> i guess editing out the mtp bits in http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_device_samsung_tuna.git;a=blob_plain;f=init.tuna.usb.rc;hb=bb2936186bfb30a3f67d81010ccdd1f9af035798 (and their equivalent for the other devices) will quieten mtp
<ogra_> sergiusens, ^^^
<pmcgowan> seb128, is there a blueprint for the image build transition in general? looking for a place to add some tasks like fixing python deps
<seb128> pmcgowan, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-ubuntu-touch-porting
<pmcgowan> seb128, perfect thanks
<seb128> pmcgowan, yw
<sergiusens> ogra_: seb128 yeah, did that last night... was having problems with grouper though
<sergiusens> seb128: ogra_ also, we are not building the mtp server
<sergiusens> or using it for that matter
<ogra_> well, i think the prob is that the gadget driver exposes mtp
<ogra_> without offering the endpoint
<ogra_> which is what you should be able to switch off in init.rc
<ogra_> sergiusens, what were the probs with grouper ?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ogra_: I had no reviewers yesterday, but this is what I did for manta http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/mtp/
<sergiusens> ogra_: problem with grouper is if you change the persist.config or the init stuff you lose adb... need to look into it a bit more
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> looking at your patch i wouldnt completely remove the mtp,adb thing
<sergiusens> ogra_: just the OVERRIDE thing?
<ogra_> in the second block
<ogra_> on property:sys.usb.config=mtp,adb
<ogra_> make that on property:sys.usb.config=adb
<sergiusens> ogra_: so mtp and mtp,adb or just mtp,adb?
<sergiusens> ogra_: that's already in the defaul init.rc
<ogra_> drop all traces of mtp ... but keep adb
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> even on grouper ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: yes, but on grouper, even with today's build, if you tell it to use only adb, you lose the adb connection for some reason
<ogra_> weird
<sergiusens> ogra_: it was late last night that I decided to try this grouper thing... might be resolved today...
<sergiusens> but grouper in general _is_ weird :-P
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> its such a breeze if used with plain linux/xorg
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ogra_ sorry to say it but in general lets lower any priority on grouper, too many issues
<ogra_> funny that it has so many probs under android
<ogra_> (it is the easiest arm device to run a desktop on)
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ok, well I solved the mtp issues for manta... been running it locally yesterday, just that I had no reviewers so I didn't apply the patch :-)
<pmcgowan> fair enough
<ogra_> well, it looks good to me
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, is someone testing now?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: not many people had manta's that were online yesterday
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, which one is manta
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: nexus 10
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: I have a local build here: http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/mtp/
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I have one if it helps
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: can you download that, then adb push that_file.zip /sdcard/autodeploy.zip; adb reboot recovery and tell me if it shows up?
<pmcgowan> ok
<sergiusens> ogra_: one more http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/0001-Remove-the-need-of-signapk.patch
<sergiusens> I'll be removing all the other jars today (around 4 more built)
<sergiusens> dholbach: hey! do you by any chance know about the status of our gerrit instance?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> I don't know - is there an RT for it?
<sergiusens> dholbach: that's what I was hoping to get out of you :-)
<dholbach> no, I wasn't involved in any of the discussions, but just aware that something like this would be needed
<dholbach> I never touched anything related to gerrit at all :-/
<sergiusens> dholbach: me neither... I guess I'll bring it back when rsalveti gets back
<sergiusens> don't mind doing it myself though :-)
<dholbach> maybe searching for gerrit in the RT db will help?
<sergiusens> dholbach: good idea
<ogra_> sergiusens, tested ?
<ogra_> (i.e. does the zip still install)
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, after reboot recovery then what?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: just wait
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, it went into the menu
<sergiusens> ogra_: yes it does... I did a make clobber just in case... I can retest
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: did you type /sdcard/autodeploy.zip properly?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, looks right
<pmcgowan> I can reboot and see f its there
<ogra_> sergiusens, nah, happy with a single test, go for it
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: do you remember how to manually deploy a zip? It should be in the menus with that name.... my guess is that you may not be running our recovery image
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, its in /sdcard/0 I can manually select it
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, just inherited this manta
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, shall I do that or is there other approach?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: do that fr this test, but after this, do a 'phablet-flash -b'
<pmcgowan> ack
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, still getting mtp mounts
<ogra_> pmcgowan, your rule reverted ?
<ogra_> +with
<cyphermox> diwic: mpt: I have time now.
<diwic> cyphermox, me too
<diwic> cyphermox, hi! :-)
<cyphermox> hey ;)
<diwic> cyphermox, well, I was just thinking; if you're having a problem with the bluez <-> PA connection I might be able to help out or talk to people who know more than me in that area
<diwic> cyphermox, but I'm also curious of the current status
<popey> hmm, bfiller where's upstream for qml-phone-shell? it comes from the phablet-team ppa on the device.. does it have its own project somewhere?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: what's the output of adb shell getprop| grep sys.usb.config
<pmcgowan> ogra_, yes I took out my fix and tried sergiusens patch
<sergiusens> popey: lp:unity/phablet
<popey> its not listed as a sub-project of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-preview
<cyphermox> diwic: I think it just works fine on the nexus 4... the nexus 7 / galaxy nexus might be a different story
<popey> oh
<popey> ta
<bfiller> popey: it's lp:unity/phablet I believe
<cyphermox> diwic: but if pulseaudio can successfully send sound out the speakers, then I don't foresee issues
<sergiusens> bfiller: it is
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, hmm no diff
<pmcgowan> [persist.sys.usb.config]: [mtp,adb]
<bfiller> popey: but check with Saviq on where to file bugs for that, they might be doing something different
<pmcgowan> [sys.usb.config]: [mtp,adb]
<popey> roger
<diwic> cyphermox, how do you usually test bt on the touch image?
<cyphermox> diwic: I'm not sure what you mean by "how"? I just pair devices and try to make them work
<diwic> cyphermox, e g how do you pair the device?
<cyphermox> using bluez's test suite, basically
<Saviq> popey, lp:unity/phablet
<Saviq> popey, as for bugs, we don't yet have a place better than phablet-team
<popey> ok
<diwic> cyphermox, ok, will try bluez-test-discovery and see what happens
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: wrong image then :-( I'll upload  a correct one
<cyphermox> diwic: that will just list devices in proximity
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ok in the meantime I am back to whack a mole on these mount popups
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, but we can decouple it from there at least (the zip)
<sergiusens> ogra_: wrong channel :-P
<ogra_> heh
<cyphermox> you basically want to use test-proximity to get their MAC, then test-device create <MAC> to create the device and then something like test-audio connect <MAC> to actually use them
<cyphermox> diwic: : ^
<acovrig> With the current plan, can I open a terminal and use sudo commands on the ubuntu touch?
<popey> acovrig: you can ssh in if you want, the phablet default user also has sudo rights
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: well, it should look like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/5641643/
<pmcgowan> agreed
<pmcgowan> so either I screwed something up or that was the wrong zip
<acovrig> popey, would I have to ssh 127.0.0.1, or could I just open something like gnome-terminal?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yeah... not sure what but I wasn't myself yesterday :-)
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, double check it and I will try again
<acovrig> because as-is, I have a ubuntu 9 chroot on my HTC, and I would like at least the same abilities...
<diwic> cyphermox, thanks, will try
<popey> acovrig: we have a terminal app
<popey> acovrig: you can ssh to the IP address of the wifi device
<popey> acovrig: or adb shell over a usb cable
<acovrig> OK, and looking at the site, there are 4 devices listed, are those the only that it works with or only tested with?
<popey> they're the ones we test with, yes. other devices have community maintained ports acovrig
<acovrig> popey, where may I find the community maintained ports (I have the HTC Evo 3D)?
<popey> acovrig: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mpt> cyphermox, I don't now, sorry. :-/ Same time tomorrow?
<cyphermox> or earlier?
<diwic> cyphermox, hmm, those commands seem to work from root@phablet but not from phablet@phablet
<cyphermox> diwic: yeah, from the test suite that is possible
<cyphermox> but that would be an issue at the bluez level, I'll investigate and fix
<diwic> cyphermox, I get an "dbus rejected send message"
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> for which message?
<diwic> cyphermox, paste.ubuntu.com/5641680
<cyphermox> mpt: ok, so basically 14 UTC tomorrow?
<mpt> cyphermox, yes, if that suits you
<cyphermox> alright
<diwic> mpt, btw, what's the meeting about, and would you like me to attend?
<mpt> diwic, to review my first draft of a UI design for setting up a Bluetooth headset.
<diwic> mpt, ok. I might join in, if I'm not there, just go ahead without me. :-)
<diwic> mpt, is that ok with you?
<mpt> sure
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: I have a fix for the voice bug
<cyphermox> mpt: diwic: I made a meeting entry in calendar, invited both of you.
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: https://code.launchpad.net/~pete-woods/hud/voice-bug-1177226/+merge/162792
<bcurtiswx> has the kernel issue been fixed where it won't allow mounts from the nexus devices
<bcurtiswx> well in my case it was the N7
<bcurtiswx> in saucy
<diwic> cyphermox, ok, I've come as far as getting the same/similar access denied error from pulseaudio when it tries to connect to bluez over dbus.
<cyphermox> ok
<diwic> cyphermox, anyway, just to confirm; the plan is to use the bluez - pulseaudio connection just as we do on the desktop, correct?
<cyphermox> correct.
<diwic> cyphermox, filed bug 1177421
<ubot5> bug 1177421 in touch-preview-images "pulseaudio-module-bluetooth not installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177421
<cyphermox> oh hey, that will impede our work somewhat ;)
<diwic> :-)
<diwic> cyphermox, want me to file one more for the dbus permission issue or you will just fix it?
<diwic> cyphermox, not that I'm sure where to file it.
<cyphermox> diwic: I'm not ready to work on this yet, can you file it under bluez?
<cyphermox> I'll get back to it in a few minutes
<diwic> cyphermox, ok, will do, thanks!
<cyphermox> thanks!
<diwic> cyphermox, filed bug 1177424.
<ubot5> bug 1177424 in bluez (Ubuntu) "[Touch] no permission to access bluez on dbus" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177424
<morphis> diwic: ping
<diwic> morphis, hi
<morphis> didrocks: hey
<morphis> didrocks: have one question about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-sound-support-pulse-audioflinger
<morphis> didrocks: sorry, I meant diwic :)
<morphis> diwic: about the point "[diwic] Write guide on how to port the mixer (from xml file to either UCM or PulseAudio profile): DONE"
<didrocks> no worry :)
<morphis> bad auto completion
<morphis> diwic: where do I find the guide?
<popey> sergiusens: do we have a bug for the blank / non-functional media side of the image? it's been broken for a week or so
<diwic> morphis, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Core/PulseaudioProfiles
<morphis> diwic: thanks a lot
<popey> media player gives me a white blank screen, and other apps (like dropping letters) do the same, which seem to be media related as it plays music when starting
<diwic> morphis, that said, it looks like there might be additional stuff to deal with before this "just works", e g permission for pulseaudio to use the sound device directly
<morphis> yes, it's not that easy
<morphis> I am working here at the same story but within the webOS ports project
<diwic> morphis, ah, ok :-)
<morphis> :)
<The_Letter_M> Hello all
<morphis> diwic: if I am reading the blueprint right is to go the way to just plain ALSA and pulseaudio on top
<The_Letter_M> Will Ubuntu Touch work with the Verizon G Nex?
<diwic> morphis, as of today's daily image on the Nexus 7 we're still using audioflinger. That's as much as I know right now.
<morphis> diwic: hm, ok
<The_Letter_M> Will Ubuntu Touch work with the Verizon G Nex?
<brion_> The_Letter_M: it runs, but doesn't make calls etc.
<The_Letter_M> oh
<brion_> fine for a test device as long as you're not testing the cell part :)
<The_Letter_M> lol
<The_Letter_M> Good to know
<The_Letter_M> since it's my only phone ATM
<brion_> heh yeah don't flash your only phone yet
<brion_> things are still young :)
<The_Letter_M> Yeah I moved all my apps from my phone to my N7 last night so I could still use them
<didrocks> sergiusens: rsalveti: FYI, I have written today the support to have every commits in the changelog
<didrocks> just waiting for next week to push it as I'll be away until then
<didrocks> and I don't want to take risks ;)
<popey> sergiusens: see my mention earlier about audio/video playback being borked? is it on someone's radar?
<sergiusens> popey: is there a bug?
<sergiusens> popey: haven't flashed today, doing local builds here
<sergiusens> popey: well, if it was the issue from last week bfiller tracked it down to an sdk issue
<sergiusens> with how theming is done
<bfiller> sergiusens, popey : renato_ is looking into it, sdk fix landed that was supposed to fix it but didn't seem to
<bfiller> popey: please file bug if you don't mind as I don't think there is one entered
 * sergiusens will brb, network restart
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, got an update for me to test?
<popey> bfiller: ok
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: not yet, but did you phablet-flash btw?
<sergiusens> with -b
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, no, will do that now
<popey> bfiller: sergiusens bug 1175394
<ubot5> bug 1175394 in platform-api "Media player won't launch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175394
<sergiusens> popey: can you add the output of adb shell grep JENKINS /system/ubuntu_stamp ?
<popey> sure
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: also, what's the output of your /data/property/persist.sys.usb.config
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I just reflashed
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yeah, I want to know the value now after you did a flash with -b :-)
<pmcgowan> ok
<pmcgowan> mtp,adb
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ^^
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ty... here's the boot.img http://people.canonical.com/~sergiusens/mtp/manta_boot.img
<sergiusens> using that since it is smaller
<sergiusens> to flash... adb reboot bootloader; sudo fastboot flash boot manta_boot.img; sudo fastboot reboot
<pmcgowan> ok
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, umm it didnt boot
<popey> sergiusens: JENKINS_BUILD=116
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: how old was the image you had on there?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, brand new
<popey> is the osk still under the springbok project or somewhere else?
<ogra_> sergiusens, hmm, i had that on yesterdays saucy build too iirc
<sergiusens> ogra_: the no boot? But I just flashed that same image :-/
<ogra_> no, the no mediaplayer :)
<ogra_> (dont panic :) )
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, whats next? its not booting at all
<sergiusens> ogra_: oh, mediaplayer is a know issue... not worried there
<ogra_> yeah, just wanted to confirm its in saucy as well
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: does adb work at all?
<sergiusens> ogra_: ack
<pmcgowan> nope
<ogra_> grab a working boot.img then
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, tried long press to turn on, it makes the noise but not coming up
<ogra_> and re-flash it from fastboot
<pmcgowan> how do I tell if its on using fastboot
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: it has the green android and a big START button
<sergiusens> popey: osk is in phablet-extras
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, not so much
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: what do you see?
<pmcgowan> blackness
<ogra_> you need to hold the vol keys when pressing power
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: oh, to get to the bootloader you need to powercycle with vol up and down pressed
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, vg
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: what's the md5sum of the boot image I gave you?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, back in bizness, now what
<ogra_> grab a working boot.img from cdimage
<ogra_> and use the fastboot flash line above
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: you have one in the recent downlosd you just did
<pmcgowan> 9a02b210a20b29b78e051502a8a8edff  manta_boot.img
<ogra_> ah, right, from cache :)
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: checksum is wrong :-/
<sergiusens> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5642218/
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: one on my machine and on lillypilly do match, can you try and redownload
<sergiusens> ?
<pmcgowan> ok
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: your network is too bleeding edge :-)
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: the md5sum is in the pastebin above
<pmcgowan> ok matches now, trying again
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: are you using firefox to download? IIRC it doesn't rename the file that is being downloaded, so it could of been an incomplete one
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, so its rebooted but adb cannot see it
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: hmmm... can you go back to the bootloader and run sudo fastboot -w
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: you will most likely get a black screen, but adb should work
<sergiusens> I may need to workaround that persistent setting in your /data/properties ...
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, let me undo my mtp fix again then try
<pmcgowan> still not will try the wipe
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: so I know what the problem is, just trying to think about a clean upgrade for everyone
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ok wiped now reboot?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yes
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: you will most likely get a black screen
<sergiusens> but we want to know if adb works
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, it keeps shutting down
<pmcgowan> shows the battery
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: so, you have the boot image I gave you and you wiped and now it won't boot? Going to try that
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, correct, it starts to come up, shows the logo then shuts down
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: one sec
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ok, go to the bootloader, from there, with vol buttons go to recovery and press power to select. Deploy from zip and get the latest raring-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip on there with sideload
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: so not deploy from zip, but sideload on device and adb sideload raring-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip on your desktop
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: don't take too much time from when you start the sideload on your device and press the enter key on your workstations
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ok but isnt that already loaded?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: we wiped it with fastboot -w
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, so how do i do the sideload? just push it somewhere>
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: are you already in the recovery menus?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, yes
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: do you see the 'sideload' option?
<pmcgowan> doing it
<pmcgowan> nice ubuntu logo
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: you only get updates for that when you bootstrap :-P
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, so I think it worked
<rickspencer3> mhall119|away, is anyone working on a tumblr app?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: and no more mtp issues, right?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, yeah, but right now it needs permissions, thats the other part of the fix
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: permissions?
<sergiusens> what and for what?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, since its not getting set up as mtp, usb device defaults to 664 mode
<pmcgowan> and adb needs 666
<pmcgowan> otherwise needs to be root
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ah, k
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: want to get the upgrade path solved though, needs to be non invasive
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, from syslog
<pmcgowan> ay  7 14:26:55 pat-samsung mtp-probe: checking bus 2, device 55: "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.2"
<pmcgowan> May  7 14:26:55 pat-samsung mtp-probe: bus: 2, device: 55 was not an MTP device
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: it's just a probe, isn't that done for anything plugged?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, its recognized but the default in the rules is 0664
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, folks generally make an android rules udev file to default these devices to 0666, I have a note in the bug
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: I thought ogra_ mentioned it's fixed in the latest android tools
<ChickenCutlass> sergiusens, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5642349/
<ogra_> yeah, thats not needed
<pmcgowan> ogra_, whats not? I should have the latest tools
<ogra_> pmcgowan, well, i thought the package ships a udev rule ... but i just checked and at least in raring it doesnt
<ogra_> the fastboot package ships one
<ogra_> but only for nexus7
<pmcgowan> right same issue
<pmcgowan> we can put one in phablet-tools?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ogra_ well if it's not there I'll take care of it
<ogra_> well, its a bug in android-tools-adb
<pmcgowan> I am not sure how you do it for only devices wanting adb
<ogra_> put it into phablet-tools for a quickfix, but also file a bug and attach the rule for android-tools-adb
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: also, what bug number are you talking about?
<sergiusens> ogra_: I was planning to fix it in the android-tools package
<pmcgowan> bug #1160847
<ubot5> bug 1160847 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfs should not attempt to mount MTP devices in an endless loop (cluttering your desktop with messages)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160847
<ogra_> sergiusens, perfect !
<sergiusens> already was aquainted with it
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, but how would you fix it?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: add the udev rules to the package
<ogra_> sergiusens, just steal the one from the fastboot package
<ogra_> and adjust the device ids
<sergiusens> also will check we have all the ids
<sergiusens> yeah that :-)
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, so it would only set up the device if it had adb enabled?
<ogra_> it should dtrt
<ogra_> pmcgowan, the USB device registers it with a special id if adb is enabled
<ogra_> (well, at least it should)
<sergiusens> ogra_: I'll cross check that
<pmcgowan> thats what I am looking for, not know where to look
<ogra_> (though the same id matches the mtp device too ... )
<pmcgowan> not seeing it
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, in lsusb output    iInterface             10 ADB Interface
<ogra_> udevadm monitor --property
<ogra_> though a bit niosy
<ogra_> *noisy
<ogra_> udevadm monitor --property|grep PRODUCT
<ogra_> better :)
<pmcgowan> but that doesnt indicate adb enabled?
<ogra_> well, it will be different from USB mass storage mode or from fastboot mode on the same device, the ID changes respectively
<ogra_> it shares the same ID with mtp (as i said above)
<kenvandine> Saviq, did you see my ping earlier, about dropping the online-accounts-qt5-staging ppa?
<kenvandine> ogra_, ^^
<kenvandine> we don't need it anymore
<ogra_> ok
<pmcgowan> ogra_, I see
<pmcgowan> it did change id with the patch
<ogra_> great
<Josh__> Hello
<iBelieve> I've installed Unity Next on the desktop, but now I think it is messing up compilation of a KDE application. Is there any way to remove it and all dependencies and changes it has made?
<Sashmo_> anyone have an idea why vlc wouldnt open a UDP unicast in linux, but it opens in windows??
#ubuntu-touch 2013-05-08
<pat> hello
<pat> can anyone give me some guidance on installing ubuntu-touch on htc evo?
<nickgee667> hey
<nickgee667> i just installed ubuntu touch on my htc after planning to for a while now... one question.  i cant change the time on it?  is this because its a developer thingy?
<Guest47769> installation using ubuntu 10.4
<wilee-nilee> Guest47769, lucid is end of life in a day and a half.
<wilee-nilee> the desktop
<Guest47769> is there any chance  to install ubuntu  using lucid lynx
<Guest47769> launchpad is not available can we download it from outside
<Guest47769> ubuntu touch installation easy method.
<dholbach> good morning
<Guest47769> good morning
<tvoss> ogra_, good morning :)
<Guest47769> can any one say about ubuntu touch
<Guest47769> help me to know more about ubuntu one touch installation on tablet
<Guest47769> how to root android
<Guest47769> pls answer
<wilee-nilee> ##android_root
<wilee-nilee> sorrry ##android-root
<wilee-nilee> Heh  #android-root
<jykae> I've been thinking to try on my SGS II but it's my main use phone, so I don't want to miss the Android OS. Has anyone here tried Ubuntu Touch on SGS II ? Does it make sense to make dualboot for SGS II ?
<ogra_> tvoss, hey
<tvoss> ogra_, hey there :) damn, forgot what I meant to ask you :)
<ogra_> heh
<tvoss> tvoss, or can I be of assistance?
<pete-woods> QML question for anyone around: Is it possible to access the length of a QAbstractListModel / QAbstractItemModel in QML? Or do I need to add a separate Qt property to access that information?
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: does count work?
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: unfortunately not, that property doesn't seem to be defined for those classes
<tsdgeos> right
<tsdgeos> listmodel should have it tbh
<tsdgeos> but doesn't
<pete-woods> yeah
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: this is not for UnityShell code, right?
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: it is, but really I'm just doing the wiring of an API I'm making into a UI that someone else has written
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: and so trying to make it a nice API for a QML user
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: in the shell we have QSortFilterProxyModel that you can wrap a model with
<tsdgeos> and has the count properyy
<tsdgeos> but if you can provide it better i guess
<pete-woods> ha! :)
<tsdgeos> doesn't make much sense to wrap it in a proxymodel just to get the count property :D
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: this should do it http://paste.kde.org/~tsdgeos/739700/
<tsdgeos> ah
<tsdgeos> and the signal declarion
<tsdgeos> +t
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: thanks! :) now submit patch to Qt please ;)
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: yeah i guess it'd make sense for someone to do :D
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: it also seems that the sphinx voxforge model has also been accepted into Raring, so we can use sphinx with an international acoustic model now, too :)
<tsdgeos> nice
<rmonge> hello
<rmonge> can i instal ubuntu phone in htc sensation?
<WebbyIT> Hi all! In which PPA can I found qtdeclarative5-hud1.0?
<WebbyIT> I have ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa but there isn't!
<WebbyIT> Hi all! In which PPA can I found qtdeclarative5-hud1.0?
<Mirv> WebbyIT: at least in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build-next
<esperolinuxien> hi
<esperolinuxien> I wanted to install ubuntu on my Galaxy Tab (found this link : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/p4wifi) but the links to download are dead
<esperolinuxien> any help ?
<WebbyIT> thanks Mirv :)
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to: Phones and Tablets are Phabulous! Installation instructions https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch | read the release notes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | file a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+filebug | The Doctor is [IN   ]
<popey> Apologies if people are getting lots of bug spam from me today, moving bugs around a bit and making them public..
<dorsatum> i've just downloaded the Ubuntu SDK preview from the site using the terminal as suggested. After that i was following the Currency Converter tutorial, under which i should see an option of Ubuntu under Projects
<dorsatum> But, that's not happening, can anyone help?
<popey> dorsatum: in qtcreator?
<popey> dorsatum: file -> new file or project, you should get a dialog appear, left hand side has "Ubuntu Touch" in it?
<popey> dorsatum: http://popey.com/~alan/qtc.png <- like that
<ogra_> popey, sync is done (just got the mail)
<popey> ogra_: thanks!
 * popey phablet-flashes
<Mirv> ogra_: FYI as a closing note for today, I've now successfully gotten qt 5.0.2 working on device, so I'd appreciate a test image build using qt5-beta-proper and later on an approval that I can copy 5.0.2 to qt5-proper (not sure who should I ping)
<Mirv> updating the sensors snapshot was needed as the last measure, not it just work by adding qt5-beta-proper, upgrade, reboot
<ogra_> why do you need a test image build ?
<ogra_> isnt installing 5.0.2 on an existing image enough to test ?
<Mirv> ogra_: well I only really need someone with big enough authority button to say "yes please copy 5.0.2 to qt5-proper" :D
<Mirv> so maybe also just someone else testing the same thing
<dorsatum> popey: no, i'm not getting that
 * popey points Mirv at bfiller
<ogra_> or QA
<popey> dorsatum: what are you getting?
<Mirv> apt-add-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-beta-proper ; apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade ; reboot -> success
<popey> Mirv: see comment above from dorsatum... ?
<popey> dorsatum: you using Ubuntu 13.04 or some other version?
<dorsatum> 12.04.2
<popey> ah
<dorsatum> Applications, Libraries, Other Projects ....
<Mirv> still should be there
<dorsatum> ^^that's all i get
<popey> must be a package missing
<dorsatum> ok
<Mirv> dorsatum: if you've used qt creator before, you may be hitting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtcreator/+bug/1164504
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1164504 in qtcreator (Ubuntu) "No automatic reconfiguration / reconfiguration feature when system environment changes" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Mirv> dorsatum: if you have ubuntu-sdk installed, that's all you need, and the rest should be about possible qt creator configuration problems. if you don't have any valuable qt creator configuration, you can try the rm line from the bug report
<dorsatum> i'll try that out
<dorsatum> i don't have anything important on it anyway
<popey> you shouldn't get any data loss, just config I believe?
<Mirv> that missing items sounds like ubuntu plugin not getting enabled even though it's installed, but I'm actually unaware how to enabled it via just configuration
<Mirv> just the qt creator configuration options
<Mirv> popey: anyway thanks, bfiller not online but 5.0.2 seems good from my perspective
<Mirv> do we have a specific channel to reach QA folks? if I'd ask for more people to test drive qt5-beta-proper on the device
<popey> thanks Mirv
<popey> we have #ubuntu-qa
<popey> actually i think they moved to -testing, so as not to stamp on Qatar loco â»
<dorsatum> i followed the guide given on the site  http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/#step-get-toolkit
<dorsatum> but, if it's an issue of a package that's missing
<dorsatum> how does one figure it out?
<ogra_> Mirv, really, when the above works on a virgin image for you i would just go for it
<Mirv> ogra_: ok. I hesitate a bit since public holiday tomorrow, so maybe first thing Friday morning is the better way :)
<popey> dorsatum: there's a package which supplies the plugin. it should be pulled in by the commands on the gomobile page you followed..
<popey> dorsatum: if it isn't then that's a bug we need to fix
<popey> qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu is the package name
<popey> so "dpkg -l qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu" will tell you if it's installed
<dorsatum> on it, i'll post what i get as the output
<dorsatum> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<dorsatum> | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
<dorsatum> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<dorsatum> ||/ Name           Version        Description
<dorsatum> +++-==============-==============-============================================
<dorsatum> ii  qtcreator-plug 2.7.0-0ubuntu4 Ubuntu plugin for Qt Creator IDE
<dorsatum> ^^what d'you make of it?
<popey> installed
<popey> "ii"
<popey> so chances are it's the config issue Mirv mentioned
<Mirv> dorsatum: "apt-get install ubuntu-sdk" giving no errors makes sure everything needed is instaled
<popey> (I had that too)
<ogra_> Mirv, well, friday means you do it before a weekend
<ogra_> Mirv, i'd rather go with one broken day than with two
<ogra_> in case you need to revert
<diwic> cyphermox, mpt meeting?
<dorsatum> Mirv: it says that ubuntu-sdk is already the newest version
<cyphermox> diwic: yes, it's time
<cyphermox> mpt: what method do you prefer
<Mirv> dorsatum: ok, then see the rm command in the linked bug report
<mpt> diwic, cyphermox, sorry, I haven't had time to finish a first draft of anything, I have nothing to show you
<cyphermox> ok
<diwic> ok
<cyphermox> reschedule then?
<dorsatum> ok
<mpt> Could we postpone to tomorrow?
<cyphermox> sure
<mpt> thanks
<ogra_> Mirv, in the distro we actually try to do such oploads on a thursday so you have the friday to sort out issues or revert stuff before the weekend ... i'd rather do the change today if i were in your situation
<diwic> I'm on holiday tomorrow and Friday, but you can go ahead.
<mpt> k
<cyphermox> mpt: let's try to have something by friday though
<cyphermox> diwic: ok
<popey> Mirv: upload now, then run away!
<ogra_> heh
<dorsatum> Mirv: should i reboot after the command? because i ran it, and started qt creator again, and there is no change.
<popey> dorsatum: you shouldn't have to, no
<popey> dorsatum: was qtcreator closed when you did the rm's?
<dorsatum> no, it was active
<dorsatum> i'll try it again
<popey> ah, should be closed
<dorsatum> upon running the command now, i get an error
<dorsatum> rm: cannot remove `.config/Trolltech.conf': No such file or directory
<dorsatum> rm: cannot remove `.config/Qt*': No such file or directory
<dorsatum> rm: cannot remove `.config/Nokia*': No such file or directory
<dorsatum> ^^that
<popey> ok, so they dont exist, that's fine
<popey> now restart qtcreator
<dorsatum> it worked!
<dorsatum> thank you popey and Mirv!
<popey> yay!
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to: Phones and Tablets are Phabulous! Installation instructions https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch | read the release notes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | file a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/touch-preview-images/+filebug |
<dorsatum> popey: if i get an app idea, and i've coded it, is there some place i can post it?
<Mirv> dorsatum: np, nice to know there's still nothing that beats the configuration removal trick :)
<dorsatum> for peer review?
<dorsatum> :)
<popey> dorsatum: sure, are you on Google+ ?
<popey> we have an "App developer" community there.
<dorsatum> yes
<popey> let me get the link..
<popey> https://plus.google.com/communities/111350780270925540549
<popey> people post youtube videos and screenshot there all the time
<dorsatum> ok, thanks :)
<popey> np
<popey> and we're here in this channel most of the time, so feel free to drop by to chat or get advice
<popey> if nobody is around, feel free to drop me a mail - popey@ubuntu.com
<popey> hmm, since I modified my udev rules as pmcgowan suggested yesterday, adb root is now failing ...
<popey> error: insufficient permissions for device
<popey> looks like my usb ID is different from those used in the bug report
<popey> Bus 002 Device 003: ID 18d1:d002 Google Inc.
<popey> \o/ fixed
<pmcgowan> popey, did you get it?
<pmcgowan> right need the correct ids
<pmcgowan> popey, or I think omit the specific device id altogether to get them all
<cfhowlett> greetings.  anyone home
<Mirv> popey: how did you fix the insufficient permissions thing? after re-running phablet-flash (got 118, flashed 116 earlier today) I started getting that and reboot both device and host not helping
<cfhowlett> OK then: I've got a brand spanking new Google Nexus 4 and I'm in China where * wait for it *, Skype is frowned upon.  Can anyone share the skype .apk with me?  It's available via Amazon Android Apps store which is blocked for me ...
<Mirv> anyway, getting a bit late now, so I'll do the copy on Friday morning if everything still passes then.
<popey> Mirv: i had to fudge with udev rules
<ogra_> Mirv, if you think there is a risk, i really wouldnt do it on a friday, that leaves everyone broken for the whole weekend
<popey> Mirv: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1160847/comments/7
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1160847 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfs should not attempt to mount MTP devices in an endless loop (cluttering your desktop with messages)" [High,Confirmed]
<Mirv> popey: that fixed it, funny that I didn't need it earlier today
<popey> yeah, my USB ID changed
<popey> it was definitely not 18d1:d002 yesterday
<Mirv> ogra_: well my Friday morning is before everyone's Friday, so there's the same Friday to fix stuff regardless of today or Friday morning copy - but of course there's the delay from copy to the first iage build
<ogra_> especially on arm
<popey> also, phablet-network-setup is failing on #118
<popey> hmm, probably because my laptop dropped off the wifi...
<popey> phablet-network-setup should error rather than just saying nothing when wifi isn't available
 * popey files a bug
<Mirv> ogra_ / phablet: re-tested and copied! running away now as suggested :)
<ogra_> haha
 * ogra_ thinks that was meant to be s/phablet/popey above though :)
<popey> hah
<JoseeAntonioR> hello guys, is anyone around?
<sergiusens> ogra_: turns out the fastboot udev rule is only for nexus 7, so I need to add the others in there
<ogra_> yeah, it will end up beiong a huge rules file, pretty much like the libmtp one
<JoseeAntonioR> just popped around to see if anyone here is interested about giving an OpenWeek session, which is on the 21-22 may, so maybe you can get some more contributors to the team
<Mirv> popey = phablet
<Mirv> e-mailed mailing list still to spread the word
<JoseeAntonioR> Mirv: about openweek?
<Mirv> JoseeAntonioR: about Qt 5.0.2 for Ubuntu 13.04
<Mirv> to the -phone list, doesn't affect app developers much
<JoseeAntonioR> oh, sorry then
<ogra_> Mirv, to ubuntu-devel too ... there are the important kubuntu devs that need to know about it
<Mirv> ogra_: I don't have rights to ubuntu-devel ML
<ogra_> Mirv, i think cjwatson can moderate
<ogra_> just send it and ping him
<Mirv> ogra_: I'm not sure if a PPA happenings are that interesting to kubuntu devs though, and it seems Kubuntu people read my blog post where I mentioned 5.0.2 and syncing up with Debian
<Mirv> (I'm on their IRC channel)
<ogra_> Mirv, oh i understood you were pushing to saucy (as you should)
<Mirv> ogra_: "13.04", for our image builds
<Mirv> saucy needs more work
<ogra_> 13.04 is dead beef
<ogra_> with luck we'll switch completely to saucy mid next week
<Mirv> sure it is
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<Mirv> but there's always something behind the next corner, and the devs really like to have their fixes in
<Mirv> with luck saucy will have 5.0.2 as well by that time via PPA, depending on eg. if more gcc 4.8 fun pops up
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ogra_ so why does the product id change with the patch to disable mtp?
<pmcgowan> popey, when did your product id change on the 7?
<Mirv> pmcgowan: for my 4 it apparenty changed when upgrading from today's 116 build to 118. now it's d002, I guess it was 4ee1 or 4ee2 before (as I didn't need to touch udev earlier)
<pmcgowan> Mirv, my concern is that all the devices are now the same id
<ogra_> pmcgowan, seems sergiusens didnt apply it yet to the images
<pmcgowan> ogra_, something changed then
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yeah, changing the usb property to adb _only_ does that
<ogra_> if they are all just adb endpoints with nothing else i dont think its so bad if they have all the same id though
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ogra_ do I want to change the IDs to the mtp ones or add udev rules for these?
<pmcgowan> its just0surprising to me that it works that wat
<pmcgowan> way
<ogra_> sergiusens, i would just keep everything on the same ID ... will make handling it on our side a lot easier
<ogra_> unless phablet flash uses any of it indeed
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, when mtp is re-enabled what happens, it just works?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: your id changes to the mtp id... let me show you
<pmcgowan> and both adb and mtp work at the same time I assume
<popey> pmcgowan: seemingly overnight
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, so what did get added to the build for 118? is this change in?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ogra_ this is what happens when on mtp http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_device_samsung_manta.git;a=blob;f=init.manta.usb.rc;h=8540d9cd3306707ecbe0627fe781f1d3c7d93fd0;hb=cad622de3fcb1a917515e7f27cd2c5d58c8fe69e#l27
<popey> i have a nexus 4 which i have not flashed to 116 yet
<popey> sorry, my nexus 4 is 116, not 118
<ogra_> sergiusens, so delete line 16-23 ... and drop mtp from line 24
<sergiusens> ogra_: pmcgowan and that's plain adb http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_system_core.git;a=blob;f=rootdir/init.usb.rc;h=15467cc21c2619e3a1cf43f1653a61fd09c7cc34;hb=83cdd2a75d41acbd09dd9d9ac1d6120bdc38c8f7#l25
<sergiusens> ogra_: nah, look at the latest plain adb paste ;-)
<sergiusens> ogra_: and that is the master branch for manta, just wanted to show pmcgowan how it was before I removed the mtp stuff
<ogra_> ah, k
<sergiusens> ogra_: if I do it at the device level, I'll have to do it for all devices... the _real_ adb only id is D002 for all devices unless they overwrite it
<ogra_> well, how do we make sure they dont ?
<ogra_> every device has its init.usb.rc ... doesnt that always ship adb stuff ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: I can't, but at least it seems consistent with the devices we support (in our tree)
<ogra_> k
<pmcgowan> it seems its not a product id at all
<pmcgowan> I dont see any method to it either, not like a bitmap of capabilites or something
<ogra_> well, its a gadget driver ... usually the kernel provides the ID by function for these
<ogra_> android just hacked that up to do even more
<ogra_> (ID by function)
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: depending on how you configured usb to work, the id changes
<pmcgowan> but not in any logical way unless I am missing it
<pmcgowan> and its not a product d
<ogra_> err s/id by function/id by subfuction/
<pmcgowan> its a usb mode thingy
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yes, it's not exactly a product id
<pmcgowan> yep
<ogra_> yeah, gadget devices are evil that way
<pmcgowan> makes sense now - sortof
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, so i take it the mtp change is in 118?
<ogra_> it breaks the standard
<popey> pmcgowan: 18d1:4ee2 is my nexus 4 USB ID on #116. 18d1:d001 during android recovery (while it's updating), 18d1:d002 once flashed to #118..
<popey> but yeah, many companies abuse the USB IDs
<popey> 3G dongles especially
<ogra_> not only companies
<ogra_> i.e. the g_serial driver uses its own ... thats a plain kernel thing
<sergiusens> so the question is, do we want to have _all_ configurations in there? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5644960/
<sergiusens> and I'm Mirv had no issues because he fell into the MTP id ;-)
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I dont think you need them since they are already in the other rules
<sergiusens> mtp with adb
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: well, it's in the rules file I'm editing now, only that it was incorrectly named
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, not following, which file
<sergiusens> gatox: sino te anda... lo podemos hacer de otra forma...
<pmcgowan> those rules are in 69-libmtp
<sergiusens> oop
<bfiller> sergiusens: what does it mean when I get "error: insufficient permissions for device" when trying to run adb root?
<bfiller> sergiusens: I've rebooted the phone and still get it, even after killing adb on my desktop
<popey> bfiller: the USB id changed with #118 due to the mtp changes
<bfiller> popey: any workaround?
<popey> bfiller: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1160847/comments/7 and subsequent comments
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1160847 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfs should not attempt to mount MTP devices in an endless loop (cluttering your desktop with messages)" [High,Confirmed]
<ogra_> bfiller, bug 1177850
<ubot5> bug 1177850 in android-tools (Ubuntu Saucy) "udev rules to access devices required for adb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177850
<ogra_> the fix for popeys bug above causes the bug i pasted
<ogra_> theoretically starting adb as root should just work
<ogra_> i.e. sudo adb ....
<jdstrand> mardy: hi! I slightly rescoped the work in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-online-accounts
<jdstrand> mardy: basically, we had the idea for a general purpose runtime contextual prompt library that online accounts could use
<jdstrand> mardy: but I thought that was outside of your responsibilities atm, so I thought just making your change to online accounts seemed reasonable. perhaps a general purpose library makes sense if more apis need it
<jdstrand> mardy: at which point, we can adjust online accounts to use it later
<jdstrand> mardy: I thought that might make it slightly easier for you
<bfiller> ogra, popey : what do I add for Galaxy Nexus? don't see that listed in the comments
<ogra_> bfiller, sergiusens is just creating the rules file, it should be attached to the bug then
<popey> bfiller: whatever the USB id is repored by lsusb
<jdstrand> pmcgowan: fyi ^ (mardy's bits)
<pmcgowan> jdstrand, ack
<pmcgowan> bfiller, easiest workaround is run adb server as root
<bfiller> pmcgowan: thanks
<popey> hmm, #118 on my nexus 4 doesn't boot. i just get a google logo then a black screen
<Guest64576> ubuntu touch installation
<popey> hmm, might be dead battery
<popey> hi Guest64576
<Guest64576> hai
<Guest64576> did you tried ubuntu touch
<sergiusens> ogra_: I'm creating a bug to add the missing device ids for fastboot too
<ogra_> yeah
<popey> Guest64576: yes â»
<sergiusens> ogra_: at least mako, maguro/toro, grouper and manta... just missing the mako one
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/saucy-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip
<ogra_> :D
<ogra_> look, its a zip
<popey> ogra_: you first â»
<sergiusens> ogra_: nice... but infinity told me didn't start with the bionic+armel xtoolchain
<Guest64576> popey, can i install ubuntu in a tablet which is cortex A8 and 1.3 ghz processor
<sergiusens> ogra_: did you copya round?
<ogra_> sergiusens, well, i hacked a bit
<ogra_> not sure i can do it like that though ....
<popey> Guest64576: depends, we have a list of 'supported' devices and a list of community maintained ports
<popey> which you can see from the link in the /topic of the channel
<Guest64576> is it update.img
<Guest64576> i cant see any link.
<ogra_> Guest64576, read the install instructions from the channel topic
<ogra_> /topic
<ogra_> try that command
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch
<popey> follow the link to "devices"
<Guest64576> then
<Guest64576> which one i want to install
<popey> the one that matches your tablet make/model
<Guest64576> i can t understant
<Guest64576> what is make\model
<ogra_> Guest64576, where do you want to install ubuntu touch on ?
<Guest64576> in my tablet
<popey> Who makes the tablet?
<ogra_> what kind of tablet is that ?
<popey> What is the model number?
<ogra_> who made it, how is it called
<Guest64576> my tablet name is penta t-pad IS709C
<ogra_> so look on the Device wikipage if there is an entry for such a tablet
<ogra_> if there is not, there is no way to do an installation to it
<ogra_> each tablet needs its own installation image
<Guest64576> IT IS A LOW COST INDIA MADE TABLET WHICH HAVE A8 CORTEX PROCESSOR
<ogra_> if nobody did build one for the penta t-pad IS709C, you will either have to do a port to it yourself or wait for someone to do it
<Guest64576> HOW TO FIND OUT TABLETS OWN INSTALLATION IMAGE
<ogra_> can you switch off capslock ?
<Guest64576> ok sure
<ogra_> !devices | Guest64576
<ubot5> Guest64576: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Guest64576> pls answer
<ogra_> follow the link
<Guest64576> ok
<ogra_> it lists all supported devices, if your tablet is not listed you can not install
<tvoss> slangasek, ping
<Guest64576> i can install it by manual method
<ogra_> Guest64576, no, if there is no specific image for your tablet it can not run
<sergiusens> ogra_: mind rebooting into fastboot with your mako and giving me the device id?
<ogra_> sergiusens, one sec
<ogra_> sergiusens, [206873.069749] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=18d1, idProduct=4ee0
<sergiusens> ogra_: heh, 4ee0 is the same as manta :-P
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> saves a line
<sergiusens> ogra_: 5 chars ;-) |4ee0
 * sergiusens needs to update to saucy to test this
<bfiller> popey: do you recall where the media-player crash bug is you entered yesterday? didn't see it in the mediaplayer-app project..
<popey> lemme see
<popey> bfiller: ah yes, jhodapp|lunch suggested filing in platform-api
<popey> bfiller: https://bugs.launchpad.net/platform-api/+bug/1175394
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1175394 in platform-api "Media player won't launch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bfiller> popey: thanks, might move that. looks like it's an sdk bug on theme loading
<popey> its not just the media player, games that have audio in (like dropping-letters) fail to start
<popey> feel free â»
<bfiller> popey: interesting
<bfiller> might be related
<popey> we patched out the audio playback so the game works
<slangasek> tvoss: hi
<mhall119|away> rickspencer3: no tumbr app tjat I know of
<rickspencer3> hi mhall119|away
<rickspencer3> ack
<rickspencer3> mhall119|away, there is a nice api for tumblr
<rickspencer3> I requested an xauth certificate :)
<mhall119|away> cool :)
<jhodapp> popey, it'll definitely be good to get that bug fixed, thanks for filing that
<leowt> hi there, what are the plans to move from an android chroot to a pure ubuntu system?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ogra_ https://i139414796.restricted.launchpadlibrarian.net/139414796/android-tools_4.2.2%2Bgit20130218-3ubuntu2_4.2.2%2Bgit20130218-3ubuntu3.diff.gz?token=e97a7a3546b10edfdc6cc63d0ecca54c
<sergiusens> that's for saucy
<brian__> Hi, How easy is it to install ubuntu on android smartphones, such as the Feiteng GT-I9300 (almost identical to Galaxy s3)? Thanks
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ogra_ I'm waiting for the raring diff, but works fine one my machine when in fastboot, recovery and system
<ogra_> oh, uaccess, is that new ?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I can test a package if you want
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: you are on raring, right? I backported the saucy udev rules, waiting for the package to build in the ppa
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, yep raring
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, I reverted that to get a raring package
 * ogra_ found udev-acl more intuitive as a name
<sonja> hi every body ...i am tryig to flash nexus 7 ...i get following error...please help......$ adb devices List of devices attached  015d3b66842ff619	device  xubuntu@xubuntu:~$ phablet-flash -b Device detected as tilapia Unsupported device, autodetect fails device
<ogra_> but well ... up to upstream i guess :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: but left it in for saucy, that change was made on -ubuntu2
<pmcgowan> !devices | brian__
<ubot5> brian__: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<sergiusens> I added comments in the udev rules so people can make clear notice of what each means too
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> well, done
<sonja> thanks a lot ubot5
<pmcgowan> ogra_, did we decide talapia works in addition to grouper?
<pmcgowan> sonja, it may work but the flash tool is not allowing it
<ogra_> pmcgowan, hmm, which one was talapia
<pmcgowan> grouper with 3g
<pmcgowan> if I recall correct
<sonja> pmcgowan thanks
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: well I would need the device IDs for it to work for fastboot
<sergiusens> ogra_: pmcgowan also need to figure out in which location to put the combinatory of (adb,mtp,ptp,rndis)
<ogra_> sonja, pmcgowan, yes, that will work
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, what about all the devices on the wiki, any plan for those or just insruction for folks to add themselves
<ogra_> pmcgowan, we will need to update the porting wikipage i guess
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: in theory, if you use plain adb in your usb setting it would just work
<ogra_> unless your device ships its own init.usb.rc
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: and we just need to figure out the combinations (where to put)
<sonja> ogra -- thanks i will try again
<ogra_> sonja, i mean with forcing it ... it will refuse to install by default
<sonja> ogra-- thanks
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ogra_ most of the adb issues would change once we do the container switch
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> it will get even worse then :)
<sergiusens> but we would still need to support the plain androids
<sonja> good bye every body thanks for help
<sergiusens> but again, it's function based...
<ogra_> sonja, if you can not get it to work, use the manual install method as described on the wiki ... with the grouper images
<sonja> ogra, thanks i will try it now
<sergiusens> gatox: esta semana o la siguiente viene saucy y mir
<sergiusens> oops
<ogra_> cheers
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> sergiusens, android-tools uploaded to saucy
<ogra_> sergiusens, the raring rule should be attached on the bug, the SRUs for the other releases might take some time
<ogra_> (so people can put it in place themselves)
<sergiusens> ogra_: ack... but I'll also add it to our tools ppa which most people have
<ogra_> ah, right
<sergiusens> just building somewhere else which has higher priority
<sergiusens> ZOLTAN!
 * sergiusens is confusing channels a lot today :-/
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: https://launchpad.net/~private-ps-quality-team/+archive/ppa/+build/4560805
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: remember to test correctly, install then adb kill-server, udevadm control --reload-rules, the play with adb and fastboot
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ay ay
<pmcgowan> need to flash latest
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, did you see my menton earlier that the changelog stuff is repeating
<pmcgowan> didnt realize rsalveti was out
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: no I didn't but I also saw it but couldn't find didrocks
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: it's a daily release thing with how they create those changelogs
<pmcgowan> I see
<sergiusens> kenvandine hey, you are here now... any idea why we get the same changelog over and over again in daily-build-next?
<sergiusens> kenvandine: could it be that some apps are missing the bootstrap thing?
<kenvandine> i think that is why
<sergiusens> kenvandine: so does this need retroactive fixing or is it a new changelog entry with the bootstrap line?
<pmcgowan> ogra_, how much total ram is available on the nexus
<kenvandine> new changelog entry
<ogra_> root@android:/ # free|grep Mem
<ogra_> Mem:        710480       540932       169548            0        45260
<ogra_> pmcgowan, ^^^
<ogra_> 710M
<pmcgowan> ogra_, thanks
<a> ?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: did you test?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, sorry got distracted
<pmcgowan> my image download taking forever
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ack, well, as soon as you do, I'm going to copy the package to ppa:phablet-team/tools
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, what does phablet-flash use for the download request?
<pmcgowan> it hangs on my network a lot
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, just remembered Im still running 32 bit
<jaywink> hey everyone.. anyone know how often the android stuff gets updated? how often should one flash?
<pmcgowan> jaywink, it gets updated quite often, you can check the changelog to see if its anything you need
<jaywink> ok tnx
<jaywink> anyone made a script to set up everything after a flash? :) like cleaning of demo stuff, setting timezone, etc
<pmcgowan> jaywink, not really no, there is phablet-network-setup
<jaywink> pmcgowan, ok thanks, that looks like it would fit nicely in a script, then set stuff including core apps
<pmcgowan> indeed
<pmcgowan> jaywink, toward the end of the month we will have it so the flash does not stomp data
<pmcgowan> and we will take the sample stuff out soon
<jaywink> great improvement since I last flashed some weeks ago :) speed improvement is amazing
<pmcgowan> good to hear, what system do you have?
<jaywink> Samsung Galaxy Nexus
<rickspencer3> hey all, I can't get the osk to show up in my network indicator :/
<rickspencer3> I've tried rebooting 3 times
 * rickspencer3 updates to 118
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, new fastboot and adb working with nexus 4
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: ok, going to copy it into phablet tools so people can update to it
<Dragostini> Hi there, is anyone actively around to answer a few questions?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, very good
<Dragostini> Anyone? A few simple questions? >.<
<wilee-nilee> Dragostini, If you don't ask them you wont get answers.
<Dragostini> Fair enough.
<Dragostini> First off, I see a lot of info on using the Ubuntu Touch Distro on Nexus phones; is it possible to run it on Galaxy s3?
<pmcgowan> !devices | Dragostini
<ubot5> Dragostini: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<pmcgowan> I think the s3 is there
<Dragostini> It's listed as a work in progress being done over at XDA; I'm guessing it's not a stable release yet?
<pmcgowan> ubuntu touch is very much work in progress, not quite alpha state yet
<pmcgowan> yeah looks like s3 support not yet baked
<Dragostini> Ahh gotcha. That pretty much defeats my next few questions and leads to my final lol; Is there any Linux Distro's currenty stable to run on the S3 D2att In touch format, or at least not requiring docking / mouse /keyboard That anyone knows of? It's more of a curiosity than it is a longing to flash one.
<pmcgowan> Dragostini, when that S3 port is done I would say the answer is yes
<pmcgowan> not aware of anything else
<Dragostini> I mean say; Gentoo or Mandriva etc
<pmcgowan> not as far as I know
<Dragostini> Alrighty, Thanks for the answers. Much appreciated. Take care
 * Dragostini bows respectfully
<popey> hmm, my nexus 4 flat out won't boot anymore
<popey> been on charge for ~4 hours
 * stgraber notes never to let popey anywhere near his phones
<popey> hah
<popey> wise
<popey> aha, now it boots but not to the shell
 * popey reflashes
<RobbyF> http://itsfoss.com/samsung-u1000-ubuntu-phone-samsung/
<RobbyF> just saw this rumour article.
<pmcgowan> that would be nice, but he seems to be fishing
<RobbyF> I guess there is a ubuntu tablet for pre-order too
<RobbyF> http://itsfoss.com/first-ubuntu-tablet-available/
<RobbyF> I've never seen this site before btw.
<RobbyF> http://www.ubuntutablet.com.au/
<popey> RobbyF: I wouldn't give them my credit card details â»
<RobbyF> likewise.
#ubuntu-touch 2013-05-09
<crhrabal> anyone successfully put ubuntu touch onto kindle fire?
<almejo> Hello everyone
<almejo> I am here for a few questions
<almejo> can someone help me?
<almejo> I am following te instructions on http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<almejo> then I started qtcreator
<almejo> and then, in the example tutorial it says that i have to create new Ubuntu -> Ubuntu UI project.. but that option is not present on my qt creator
<almejo> some tips??
<patrik_> how to create ubuntu touch tablet mg
<patrik_> can any one help
<patrik_> how to create ubuntu touch img
<patr> how to make ubuntu touch img
<popey> patr: hi
<popey> patr: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting describes how to port Ubuntu Touch to other devices
<user82> does anyone know how the status of "whosthere" currently is? https://launchpad.net/whosthere
<user82> or does the dev happen to be here...i once saw hin in a ubuntu channel?
<popey> gehre.matthias@gmail.com is them..
<user82> seems like he is offline. but i query'd him
<user82> if ubuntu touch is really ready and whosthere too i might use it starting june
<popey> you could email him to get an update on the status?
<user82> i am quite sure he was in irc. probably US-person and sleeping now
<user82> https://launchpad.net/~m-gehre
<user82> IRC:
<user82>     matge on irc.freenode.net
<popey> Based in Texas it seems.
<user82> so he is quite asleep now. i will wait for a while and email him if he does not appear online within 2 days
<popey> user82: he's not been in here since March 29th
<user82> oh you can look that up..i forgot
<user82> then email
<PPOS-BAR> hi, i've a little prob with version 119 :
<PPOS-BAR> List of devices attached
<PPOS-BAR> ????????????	no permissions
<PPOS-BAR> i can't use adb root adb shell or adb reboot ?!
<nik90> dpm: I just saw this bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1178148
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1178148 in Ubuntu Clock App "clock numbers should not be used as a string" [Undecided,New]
 * dpm looks
<nik90> dpm: Is this how it is done in other projects? Are numbers usually translated?
<dpm> nik90, they are usually not. However, the reason they are not marked as translatable is because the underlying locale settings take care of displaying the right format. The thing is, I'm not sure how this is taken care of in Qt
<dpm> tsdgeos, do you happen to know? ^^
<nik90> dpm: I will also have a look into the qt docs to see if they support such locale settings
<dpm> nik90, cool. Some of this should apply: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtquick/qtquick-internationalization.html#8-use-locale-to-extend-localization-features - the only thing to bear in mind is that we're not using Qt's native i18n system. We use gettext in the SDK's i18n.tr() calls
<dpm> but Qt.Locale should still work
<dpm> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtqml/qml-qtquick2-locale.html
<nik90> dpm: yeah just saw the last link
<nik90> so I could use something like "The value is: " + Number(23443.34).toLocaleString(Qt.locale())
<Jama_> Hey.
<nik90> dpm: I will create a MP removing the i18n.tr() calls from the numbers and replacing them with Qt.locale() calls.
<tsdgeos> dpm: qlocale should handle that yeah
<tsdgeos> not sure about the 0 stuff for arabic locales though
<tsdgeos> but that's what it's there for
<Laney> hello! I need some ui-toolkit advice. I'm just poking around to learn all this stuff.
<nik90> tsdgeos: is this syntax correct Number(23443.34).toLocaleString(Qt.locale())
<Laney> I have a ListView filled with Standards. I'm trying to give them icons which are populated from jpegs on the internets that have varying dimensions. It looks weird that they're not all square - what's the best way to crop them to be so?
<tsdgeos> nik90: haven't done much locale use in qml sorry, can't tell :/
<user82> maybe this is a stupid question but is it easy to adopt the lockscreen color?
<nik90> tsdgeos: no prob, I will get this in and test it with users.
<user82> with easy i mean: settings not rom modding
<dpm> nik90, I haven't done much locale-related stuff in QML, either, but from the example in the docs, it looks sensible
<dpm> kaleo, jppiiroinen, perhaps you can help Laney with his question? ^^
<Laney> in fact it could be possible that no resizing is taking place at all
<kaleo> Laney: what version of qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin do you have?
<kaleo> Laney: apt-cache policy qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin
<Laney> kaleo: 0.1.43 (saucy)
<kaleo> Laney: that issue you are seeing should be fixed with a later version
<kaleo> Laney: try installing https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ppa
<Laney> k
<Laney> can that get published for saucy too? :-)
<dpm> tsdgeos, also, while we're at it, we spoke a few days ago about using standaloneMonthName and you mentioned it wasn't working as expected and you proposed a fix upstream. How's that coming along? Do you have a link to the bug report or the branch you submitted upstream to keep track of it?
<tsdgeos> dpm: https://codereview.qt-project.org/#change,54214
<tsdgeos> fixed for 5.1
<tsdgeos> you can ping Mirv if you want it backported in our 5.0.2 packages i guess
<dpm> cool, thanks tsdgeos!
<Laney> kaleo: yes! looks excellent now, thank you
<kaleo> dpm: Laney: that's the way we like it :)
<dpm> :-)
<Laney> https://ubuntuone.com/5lsRZ3ePOOhKErbBuiRZHp
<dpm> That looks pretty awesome, looking forward to see the app :)
<dpm> Laney, feel free to add it to the list on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Collection - we're collecting cool apps that are being written with the SDK there
<Laney> sure - hopefully will get it minimally usable shortly
<Laney> It's only a bit of a playground so that I can figure this stuff out before moving to work on settings stuff
<Laney> dear qt creator, please to be detecting my nexus 7, love laney
<popey> Laney: what image are you running on your n7?
<Laney> yesterday
<popey> 118?
<Laney> how do i find out?
<popey> adb shell grep JENKINS /system/ubuntu_stamp
<popey> JENKINS_BUILD=119
<Laney> 116 but nm, had to do the kill/start-server dance
<popey> really not sure about the new layout of the devices tab in qtcreator
<popey> tabs in the middle of ths screen, oriented sideways
<popey> makey no sense
<Laney> that ui could do with a bit of work
<popey> hmm, latest qt update seems to have broken all the collections apps
<Laney> works though
<kaleo> Mirv: you around?
<popey> he's on vacation today, national holiday
<tsdgeos> popey: broken in what sense?
<popey> tsdgeos: white screen when starting them
<tsdgeos> popey: ouch,
<popey> dropping letters, samegame, weather, clock...
 * popey reflashes device
<user82> sorry to ask again: can you cange the lockscreen color of ubuntu touch?
<popey> ok, confirmed, a clean install of #119 works, but updating qt from qtcreator (enable developer mode) breaks most of the apps
<pmcgowan> popey, what does updating qt from qtcreator mean
<popey> i think it adds the qt beta ppa and then updates
<popey> Mirv pushed a new qt update yesterday
<popey> so when you "enable developer mode" on in qtcreator it pulls in that new qt package
<popey> going to do it now again to see what it pulls in that's broken
<pmcgowan> popey, did they push 5.0.2?
<popey> yeah, ogra_ and mirv were discussing it here last night i think
 * popey scrolls back
<pmcgowan> popey, I dont see it for raring
<popey> no, its in a ppa
<popey> but you wont see it in a normal image flash, i think it gets added by qtcreator, which is what I'm just confirming now
<pmcgowan> popey, ok, but that would be crazy wrong
<popey> yup, qtcreator adds.. gpg: key 179518B2: public key "Launchpad PPA for Canonical Qt5 Edgers" imported
<pmcgowan> hmm
<popey> i see it pulling in packages like... Get:39 http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper/ubuntu/ raring/main libqgsttools-p1 armhf 5.0.2-2ubuntu1~raring1~test2 [37.6 kB]
<pmcgowan> popey, and when does it do that?
<pmcgowan> popey, enable developer tools?
<popey> it's /usr/share/qtcreator/ubuntu/scripts/qtc_device_developertools that does it
<popey> which is called when you hit the "enable developer" option in qtcreator devices tab
<popey> $ADB apt-add-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper -y
<pmcgowan> right, so that should no longer use the PPA, should use archive
<popey> *poke jppiiroinen
<popey> public holiday over there I think
<pmcgowan> popey, oh heck half of europe is out
<pmcgowan> popey, can you log a bug, then we should comment that line out so it uses the main repo instead
<popey> yup
<popey> problem is for people who are using 12.04 or 12.10, they need the ppa
<popey> or _a_ ppa
<popey> no, ignore me
<popey> â»
<popey> confused on-device ppa with desktop ppa
<pmcgowan> right
<kaleo> the idea shouldn't be that the ppa does not break anything? :)
<kaleo> Mirv is on holidays?
<popey> he is
<popey> along with much of europe
<kaleo> popey: so no fixing the PPA until he is back?
<pmcgowan> kaleo, I dont know why we need to use the PPA
<pmcgowan> the packages are all in raring
<popey> indeed, or don't use the ppa
<popey> (on device)
<kaleo> pmcgowan: for the device no need but as popey was saying
<kaleo> pmcgowan: 12.04 does not have qt5
<pmcgowan> this is specifically loading it to the device
<kaleo> pmcgowan: popey: do we know why apps are broken?
<kaleo> is there a bug report about that?
<kaleo> (about apps being broken and why)
<pmcgowan> havent made them yet
<pmcgowan> not that I know of
<kaleo> that's really not cool
<popey> bug 1178242
<ubot5> bug 1178242 in Ubuntu QtCreator Plugins "qtc_device_developertools adds ppa which can break on-device" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178242
<kaleo> going on holidays
<kaleo> like that.
<popey> well, it was either put it in the ppa yesterday or friday
<pmcgowan> ah now I remember seeing some discussion on this, I thought they decided not to publish it
<pmcgowan> popey, or not at all until it passed testing which it clearly would not
<kaleo> "I  was encouraged to copy my Qt 5.0.2 for Ubuntu 13.04 to qt5-proper PPA
<kaleo> after testing it"
<kaleo> from Mirv's email
<pmcgowan> hmm
<popey> well.sure.
<kaleo> I wonder who encouraged him
<pmcgowan> ok lets figure out whats broke
<popey> yeah
<kaleo> popey: do we have an accurate list of the apps that break?
<pmcgowan> kaleo, popey has a busted system, what can he get off of it
 * popey reboots device
<kaleo> pmcgowan: busted as in no shell coming up?
<popey> no, shell is fine
<popey> some apps start but give a white screen
<kaleo> popey: ok, we need the logs for these apps
<kaleo> popey: you know how to start them from console?
<popey> i can ssh in
<kaleo> ok
<kaleo> and then mediaplayer-app --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/media-player.desktop
<kaleo> or something along these lines
<popey> ok
<popey> ubuntu-clock-app --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/ubuntu-clock-app.desktop
<popey> is what i did
<kaleo> right
<popey> nothing appearing on device
<kaleo> popey: any log?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5647736/
<kaleo> /usr/share/applications/ubuntu-clock-app.desktop exists?
<popey> yes
<kaleo> so far it all looks good
<popey> tab completion â»
<kaleo> popey: so the shell is still visible?
<user82> popey, are you a dev?
<kaleo> popey: no white window or anything?
<popey> no
<popey> let me try from the launcher
<kaleo> popey: do you reproduce the same on your desktop?
<popey> bah, now it starts
<popey> ffs
<kaleo> ah ah :)
<popey> lemme do more testing
<kaleo> k
<popey> dont understand why everything was white boxes earlier
<popey> even after a reboot, yet now it all starts okay
<pmcgowan> popey, I can try it here in a bit
<user82> popey, you do not happen to know about lockscreen color i guess?
<kaleo> popey: so that corroborates what Mirv was saying in his email
<kaleo> popey: pmcgowan: but I suspect, as boiko was saying, that the telephony app will be broken
<pmcgowan> kaleo, should we remove it from the proper PPA and have it only in staging? I am still unlcear why it was promoted
<kaleo> pmcgowan: still unclear as well; what you are proposing makes sense
<pmcgowan> kaleo, its the beta-proper where they are staged
<kaleo> popey: are you going to test all the apps systematically with 5.0.2?
<popey> sure am â»
<kaleo> popey: excellent
<popey> phone and music app so far don't start properly
<kaleo> darn.
<popey> (and media player) but that was broken for me already
<kaleo> popey: media player got a critical fix yesterday
<pmcgowan> popey, music app?
<popey> the music link on the launcher
<popey> just gives a white screen
<kaleo> popey: that's a fake app, other fake apps don't launch?
<popey> thats the only one so far
<pmcgowan> strange
<pmcgowan> popey, kaleo its broken here, so not related
<kaleo> pmcgowan: you mean music app is broken here or media player?
<pmcgowan> music
<kaleo> pmcgowan: ok
<kaleo> pmcgowan: popey: so, so far, only phone app
<popey> and media player, but that's been broken for me for a week or more
<kaleo> is broken
<kaleo> popey: upgrade it should be fixed
<pmcgowan> mieda also white screen
<kaleo> it == media player
<popey> I'm on todays image
<popey> 119
<kaleo> maybe the fix did not make it into the image
<pmcgowan> I am on 118, music and media broken then
<kaleo> renato__: so the mediap player fix does not seem do have made it into today's image
<kaleo> pmcgowan: we need a separate bug report for the fake music app not launching properly
<pmcgowan> kaleo, we are at the point we should remove all the fake anyway
<pmcgowan> but I can log it
<kaleo> pmcgowan: fair enough
<kaleo> pmcgowan: let's log a bug for removing them?
<popey> +1 to removing the cardboard cut-outs
<pmcgowan> I will against the image
<popey> i thought backgrounded apps were suspended/paused?
<popey> top is showing lots of qtwebprocess processes eating some cpu
<popey> not a lot, but some
<popey> I have twitter, web, facebook etc all open
<renato_> media player is working for me
<pmcgowan> an none in focus
<renato_> just not rotating
<pmcgowan> ?
<popey> none are focussed
<kaleo> popey: only the main process
<popey> on shell screen
<kaleo> popey: if it forks out other processes they are not suspended yet
<popey> ahh
<popey> makes sense, thanks
<kaleo> popey: cheap implementation..
<renato_> kaleo, we should remove the media player icon from the launcher
<kaleo> renato_: fair enough: bug against unity
<renato_> kaleo, since the designers do not want to launch it without  a movie
<kaleo> renato_: popey reports that the media player is not working for them with image 119 and Qt 5.0.2
<kaleo> popey: do you have a log of the media player?
<popey> hmm
<renato_> kaleo, popey is working fine for me on the today image
<popey> just got booted out of my ssh session when starting media playback
<kaleo> renato_: toda's image has qt 5.0.1
<kaleo> +y
<kaleo> renato_: can you try with Qt 5.0.2?
<kaleo> renato_: it's available in the qt5 proper ppa
<kaleo> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-proper
<popey> it's not reliable - media app
<renato_> kaleo, popey: for qt 5.0.2 you need to install libqt5multimedia5-plugins
<kaleo> renato_: popey nice
<renato_> I am waiting for the qt 5.0.2 landed to add this on control file
<popey> i can get it to start one time in many
<renato_> popey do you have "libqt5multimedia5-plugins" installed?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5647829/
<kaleo> renato_: it feels like you should not wait or we will run into a state where the media player will be broken for a day
<popey> no
<kaleo> popey: do "fg"
<kaleo> popey: just after it started
<popey> Failed to get the current playback position.
<popey> spammed
<renato_> kaleo, but if I add this then the mp app will be broken for < qt 5.0.2
<kaleo> popey: and pass it a video file
<popey> ah
<kaleo> renato_: any way to support both?
<kaleo> renato_: with the | operator maybe?
<popey> kaleo: black screen
<popey> no controls
<popey> yet i ran it a couple of minutes ago and it played sintel
<renato_> popey, try run from the shell
<popey> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~/Videos$ media-player --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/media-player.desktop sintel_trailer-1080p.mp4
<kaleo> 15:11 < renato_> popey do you have "libqt5multimedia5-plugins" installed?
<popey> ^^ what i did
<popey> no, i dont kaleo
<popey> but it played a moment ago
<kaleo> popey: you need it
<kaleo> popey: it must have been before you had Qt 5.0.2 no?
<popey> right, now it works from the launcher
<popey> haven't installed any additional packages
<popey> hence me saying it's unreliable
<kaleo> popey: so libqt5multimedia5-plugins is not instealled or you mean you did not install it manually?
<kaleo> -e
<popey> no, i didnt install it manually
<kaleo> popey: can you check if it's installed?
<popey> i just started media player form command line and got a black screen (see above command line) but then tried from the videos lens and it worked
<popey> so it _can_ work without libqt5multimedia5-plugins installed
<kaleo> popey: does it work reliably from the video lens?
<kaleo> 15:15 < kaleo> popey: can you check if it's installed?
<popey> 14:14:27 < popey> no, i dont kaleo
<popey> â»
<kaleo> 15:15 < kaleo> popey: so libqt5multimedia5-plugins is not instealled or you mean you did not install it manually?
<kaleo> 15:15 < popey> no, i didnt install it manually
<popey> 14:14:59 < popey> haven't installed any additional packages
<popey> â»
<kaleo> it could have been automatic
<kaleo> please check
<popey> its not installed
<popey> hence "no, I don't"
<kaleo> ok then
<popey> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~/Videos$ apt-cache policy libqt5multimedia5-plugins
<kaleo> it was ambiguous
<popey> libqt5multimedia5-plugins:
<kaleo> perfect
<popey>   Installed: (none)
<popey>   Candidate: 5.0.2-2ubuntu1~raring1~test2
<popey>   Version table:
<popey>      5.0.2-2ubuntu1~raring1~test2 0
<popey>         500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper/ubuntu/ raring/main armhf Packages
<popey> sorry
<kaleo> renato_: did you see that?
<kaleo> renato_: does it work reliably from the video lens?
<kaleo> renato_: wrong nick
<renato_> kaleo, yes, but timo e-mails says that we should install it
<kaleo> popey: does it work reliably from the video lens?
<popey> yes
<renato_> kaleo, I will add it into Recommends sections as timo suggest
<kaleo> renato_: good idea
<kaleo> popey: good then
<bfiller> kaleo: rotation not working at all in 119, all the apps that used to rotate do not anymore. media, camera and browser
<kaleo> bfiller: renato said so and was about to file the bug
<kaleo> bfiller: 99% chance it has nothing to do with the ui toolkit
<bfiller> kaleo: probably a sensor regression or something?
<kaleo> bfiller: need to find out if it's a problem with qtsensors or base system
<kaleo> bfiller: can somebody looki into that? I'm kinda hands full here
<popey>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S  %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
<popey>   165 system    20   0  7028 1612 1252 S  89.1  0.1 154:17.87 sensorservice
<popey> that doesn't look good
<popey> my nexus 4 is painfully slow, with sensorservice eating cpu
<bfiller> jhodapp: seems the rotation support is busted in today's build (119). Can you see what's going on? suspect something changed in sensors or something
<bfiller> kaleo: yes
<jhodapp> bfiller, what are you using to test it?
<bfiller> jhodapp: galaxy nexus
<jhodapp> bfiller, I mean which app, sorry
<bfiller> jhodapp: media player, camera and browser were rotating in 118 but not 119
<jhodapp> bfiller, interesting...I can take a look...anything interesting in logcat?
<bfiller> jhodapp: don't see anything in there of interest
<bfiller> jhodapp: qt was updated to 5.0.2, that must have broken something
<jhodapp> bfiller, yeah, there's a very good chance that's true
<user82> popey, can one change the lockscreen color on nexus 4?
<jhodapp> bfiller, I have to update my GN before I can test
<popey> user82: i dont know
<user82> hmh okay..thanks
<user82> will test it "end of may" when the images are "usable"
<user82> i guess it eats battery a lot
<bfiller> jhodapp: yup, reflash with lastest
<user82> can you flash a custom android kernel with ubuntu touch? it uses android kernel anyways i read?
<popey> user82: it eats battery when things go wrong, but generally battery life is pretty good
<popey> user82: it currently uses the android kernel
<bfiller> oSoMoN: the update to qt 5.0.2 broke the browser. the dpr stuff is not working anymore (:
<oSoMoN> bfiller: huh, does this mean the patch was not carried forward to 5.0.2?
<bfiller> oSoMoN: can you follow up with timo to see what patches of our didn't make it into 5.0.2
<bfiller> oSoMoN: suspecting that, yes
<oSoMoN> sure
<sergiusens> bfiller: pong
<bfiller> sergiusens: hey, can we spin another build with qt5-proper ppa removed? the qt 5.0.2 stuff that landed there broke lots of things
<user82> popey, thanks for the infio
<user82> but i guess it cannot beat my custom rom+kernel battery wise...
 * popey shrugs
<sergiusens> bfiller: sure, I'll respin with the proper ppa removed. One sec, I'll update
<sergiusens> bfiller: so there is nothing in that ppa that would be missing from the archives? Like qtwebkit?
<bfiller> sergiusens: hmnn, not sure
<gatox> hi, i'm having problems for running a UI Touch application from Qt Creator in the Device..... when i select build -> Ubuntu Touch -> Run application on device...... i get: [10:56:58] To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo <command>".        in the Qt Creator console..... any ideas?
<gatox> the device seems properly connected, as in the Device tab shows
<mpt> cyphermox, if you add a hangout I'll join it. :-)
<mpt> cyphermox, or we can just use IRC -- my questions aren't complicated
<cyphermox> mpt: ok give me a secong
<WebbyIT> popey: Are you having fun with all these bugs? :P
<mpt> cyphermox, bbl, fire evacuation
<sergiusens> bfiller: oh... maybe not, we are using the one in daily-build-next
<sergiusens> bfiller: updated qt, probably means we need to recompile qtubuntu
<pmcgowan> gatox, what version of the image are you running
<gatox> pmcgowan, daily installed yesterday..... yesterday i was able to run an application in this way.... but now is not possible
<pmcgowan> gatox, ok, you need an update to the android tools, let me see if it made it to the ppa
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: it's in for raring and in the archives for saucy
 * sergiusens is not sure that is the problem though
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, I think so, qtcreator plugin uses adb which does not have permission
<pmcgowan> without the update
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: well the quick check gatox can do is to adb kill-server && sudo adb start-server
<pmcgowan> indeed
<gatox> sergiusens, i did that
<gatox> sergiusens, pmcgowan i'm upgrading anyway
<gatox> to see if something is missing
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, bfiller shall we try recompile qtubuntu first to see if that fixes things?
<gatox> sergiusens, pmcgowan mmm no... not working... but i think something might be broken in my system maybe.... because qt creator it's experience some weird problems....
<gatox> i'll see if i can fix the system and ping you later
<pmcgowan> ok no worries
<dpm> renato_, oSoMoN, would you be able to join #ubuntu-touch-meeting for a question on the calendar app?
<oSoMoN> dpm: in a meeting right now, will join in a moment
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: I'm doing the research before triggering a rebuild anyways, so yes
<jhodapp> bfiller, can you verify that qt 5.0.2 first got applied for the latest build and that it's not in 118?
<sergiusens> dpm: side question, is the calendar app ready to add to the image? question for popey too
<bfiller> jhodapp: yes confirmed
<sergiusens> jhodapp: I'll do that
<jhodapp> bfiller, thanks
<jhodapp> sergiusens, thanks
<dpm> sergiusens, I'd say it still needs a few features to get implemented, but it will probably be the next one we add
<sergiusens> dpm: ack, thanks!
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, its in the image no?
<pmcgowan> dpm, ^^
<dpm> oh, is it one of the 3 already?
<pmcgowan> 4
<pmcgowan> calc, clock, cal and weather are all in
<dpm> I haven't checked in a while
<dpm> ah well, sergiusens, that should answer the question then, thanks pmcgowan
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: doh
<dpm> yeah, sorry, I don't have a device to test anymore
<pmcgowan> dpm, what! need to talk to your boss about that
<dpm> pmcgowan, I know, I know, we did, but this week he's at the cloud sprint, but we'll sort it out :)
<Deihmos_> Has this ever been updated
<popey> Deihmos_: "this" being?
<Deihmos_> Ubuntu touch
<popey> Deihmos_: we are working on it right now â»
<popey> Deihmos_: we do daily image builds
<popey> so.. "yes, it is"
<Deihmos_> On ok
<Deihmos_> Might give it a try
<Deihmos_> Anyone use it as daily device
<oSoMoN> bfiller: so I just pushed build 119 to the phone, and the browser seems to work fine, IÂ verified that itâs Qt 5.0.2 in the build
<pmcgowan> Deihmos_, we have a goal to support using it as a daily device by months end
<oSoMoN> bfiller: whatâs the error youâre seeing?
<bfiller> oSoMoN: size wrong, go to facebook and other sites, they look too small
<bfiller> oSoMoN: other than that ok
<sergiusens> oSoMoN: bfiller same, my eyes can't tell the diff... or is this on manta/nexus10 ?
<bfiller> oSoMoN: I think it's not honoring the QTWEBKIT_DPR setting anymore, testing on Galaxy Nexus
<sergiusens> media player works fine too
<bfiller> sergiusens: yup, but doesn't rotate
<sergiusens> bfiller: right and the window stacking is wrong
<bfiller> sergiusens: window stacking?
<cyphermox> mpt: you back?
<mpt> cyphermox, yep, just got back
<cyphermox> ok
<sergiusens> bfiller: open two apps, close the latest... you're supposed to go the shell
<bfiller> sergiusens: ack, pls file bugs
<sergiusens> sure
<cfhowlett> Is there a channel for google nexus 4?  or google android?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, shouldnt we try with a rebuilt qtubuntu, all these issues seem related
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yeah, I'm setting up for that... but logging bugs while stuff gets installed
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, but those bugs will be moot possibly
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yeah... might be right
<mterry> Are other people getting errors like the following when running autopilot on phablet trunk?  "StateNotFoundError: State not found for class with name '/QmlPhoneShell/QQuickView/Shell/QQuickItem/Dash' and id '2'"
<jhodapp> sergiusens, I just tired some debug statements in qtubuntu-sensors...nothing showed up so I'm quite confident that the orientation problem is at a higher level
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: bfiller recompiling qtubuntu didn't do the trick
<bfiller> sergiusens: for which problem?
<bfiller> jhodapp: can you validate if the orientation changes are getting propagted to the Screen object as they used to?
<sergiusens> bfiller: rotation
<bfiller> sergiusens: ack
<jhodapp> bfiller, yeah, that was my next step...do you know if the overall layout of orientation with qtubuntu is basically the same as when I last touched it some months ago?
<bfiller> jhodapp: yes I believe it's the same
<jhodapp> bfiller, ok, so the only new change is the SDK QML sheet?
<bfiller> jhodapp: only thing that has changed is that sdk now does the rotation on behalf of the app but think it uses the same underlying mechanism,
<jhodapp> perfect
<bfiller> kaleo: is that correct? ^^^^
<sergiusens> bfiller: from what it looks, if I remove the edgers ppa, we will most likely lose our qtwebkit changes
<bfiller> sergiusens: can we copy the 5.0.1 qtwebkit from edgers ppa into phablet team ppa?
<sergiusens> bfiller: I'll try and copy all of qt to there
<sergiusens> I haven't debugged qtubuntu since oct 2012
<sergiusens> jhodapp: ^^
<vesar> Anyone else getting something similar "Not enough space in /data, found 3.5G
<vesar> " when flashing with phablet-flash? Any pointers.
<vesar> I've removed all photos and videos from /data but it didn't help.
<pmcgowan> vesar, remove the old zip files
<pmcgowan> from /sdcard/
<kaleo> bfiller: reading
<vesar> pmcgowan, brilliant. Thank you.
<Nilz> Hi, quick question: when installing ubuntu touch on a nexus 7, it will not flash over my recovery right?
<kaleo> bfiller: there was a one liner patch to qtubunti 2weeks ago about orientation
<kaleo> bfiller: it was working then
<kaleo> bfiller: nothing that i know of aside from that
<kaleo> and its lunch time
<pmcgowan> Nilz, not unless you specify the -b option
<pmcgowan> Nilz, but it will wipe all of android right
<Nilz> Ok thanks
<Nilz> I am aware that it will wipe android, but it will also wipe the recovery partition with the -b flag?
<sergiusens> Nilz: don't use the tool, do it manually
<Nilz> Ok thanks, will do
<sergiusens> kenvandine: hey, did you delete all the xembed packages?
<kenvandine> sergiusens, nope
<kenvandine> Mirv was including it in his 5.0.2 update for qt5-proper, not sure if that was uploaded
<kenvandine> bfiller, i took a stab at reusing the Ubuntu.Browser component, see my comments on bug 1177964
<ubot5> bug 1177964 in Online Accounts: Sign-on UI "signon-ui in ubuntu-touch should use Ubuntu.Browser plugin" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177964
<bfiller> kenvandine: ok
<sergiusens> bfiller: so I think I can't rollback to yesterday's build
<bfiller> kenvandine: thanks, oSoMoN can you comment on that bug ^^^
<kenvandine> bfiller, np
<sergiusens> kenvandine: issue is, 5.0.2 seems to have some isues
<kenvandine> sergiusens, the xembed patch is only useful on the desktop
<kenvandine> not needed for touch
<oSoMoN> bfiller: sure
<sergiusens> kenvandine: yeah, but it was the latest thing we were using :-)
<jhodapp> bfiller, I get one orientation event at startup in qtubuntu...no other events from that point on
<jhodapp> bfiller, I have a lunch meeting to head to, when I get back I'll run the lower level sensor test to verify that it's not in the hybris layer
<bfiller> jhodapp|lunch: ack, please make sure to file a bug with your findings in case it's in qtubuntu or sdk layer then we can hand it off
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, bfiller: answered comments on the bug report
<Laney> it's annoying that I can't get back to the contents page from a component page of the sdk docs
<kaleo> Laney: there is a bug eeport filed about that
<Laney> woot
<Laney> I also can't seem to get to the index page (list of components) from d.u.c
<sergiusens> bfiller: jhodapp|lunch E/CameraHAL(  130): Error while configuring rotation 0x80001005
<kaleo> this one? http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/overview-ubuntu-sdk.html
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I'm sure there's a way but I have trouble finding it :S
<Laney> ah, get started now > show me ...
<kaleo> dpm: opiniob about that ^
<mterry> Saviq, et al: does autopilot run qml_phone_shell work for you?  I get a StateNotFoundError error about the Dash
<Saviq> mterry, it ran, got 19 failures, though...
<Saviq> mterry, and autopilot is disabled on Jenkins
<Saviq> mterry, 'cause there was an autopilot release last week
<Saviq> mterry, that has not yet settled
<mterry> Saviq, yeah I get those 19 failures
<Saviq> might be the cause
<mterry> ah
<Saviq> mzanetti knows more, but he's out until Monday
<mterry> Saviq, this is the latest thing to block my lightdm branch
<mterry> :(
<mterry> Saviq, although actually, it doesn't have an actual review approval yet.  Would you mind giving it the once over and final approval this week?
<Saviq> mterry, yeah, will do
<user82> hey all. where do i find the current development status for the nexus 4 specifically? like "is the video player ready" "can i use 3g"?
<user82> is there a devices page?
<WebbyIT> user82: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install && https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
<WebbyIT> user82: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#What_to_expect_after_flashing
<WebbyIT> user82: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#Nexus_4
<user82> good stuff WebbyIT thanks. had not seen all of that!"
<user82> so mediaplayer works right now but music player does not?
<chilicuil> why exist https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation with different instructions?, I have a nexus 7 which one should I follow?
<WebbyIT> chilicuil: the first one is for U-Touch, the second for Ubuntu
<chilicuil> WebbyIT: so if I follow the second tutorial, I'll end with a classical ubuntu dekstop system on the nexus?, while if I follow the first one I'll get ubuntu for phone?
<WebbyIT> chilicuil: yap
<chilicuil> WebbyIT: got it, thanks
<njin> nik90, hallo, is audio (beep) working in ubuntu-clock-app ?
<dpm> kaleo, not sure if that's the question, but my opinion about that is what I described in the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1168026
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1168026 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "API documentation needs navigation" [High,Confirmed]
<kaleo> dpm: no i was referring to the fact that its not easy to find the api doc in tue fist place
<dpm> ah, gotcha
<user82> does anyone know if the nexus 4 can be shut down completely? one site says yes the other says no
<user82> from ubuntu touch itself without a p
<pmcgowan> user82, yes it can, long press the power button
<user82> thank you pmcgowan
<user82> so this information seems to be obsolete? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#Nexus_4
<pmcgowan> we have not seen that recently, it was precautionary
<dpm> kaleo, Laney, the API has got its own step (4) on http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ - we could perhaps think of making it more visible though. It might be a good point to discuss next week at the developer site session at uds
<nik90> njin: the audio beep shown in the alarm page is a placeholder at the moment.
<kaleo> dpm: +1
<nik90> njin: It wil be a placeholder until we are able to access the platform API to sound the beep or the vibration.
<user82> are you a dev pmcgowan or just happen to have a lot of knowledge?
<WebbyIT> user82: -> https://launchpad.net/~pat-mcgowan
<user82> ah
<user82> so maybe a good person to ask stupid questions: pmcgowan is it planned that you can change the lockscreen color in the settings without editing the rom?
<pmcgowan> user82, yes some set of tweaks like that will be available, the infographic selection, colors etc
<user82> cool. thanks for the info.
<user82> and by end of month 3g network i heard?
<WebbyIT> user82: dicunt (so they say)
<user82> allright
<popey> pmcgowan: where do you want OSK bugs to be thrown?
<pmcgowan> popey, I guess wherever the code is, or do we need to wait for saucy on that
<popey> pmcgowan: well it's in the phablet-team ppa, maliit-keyboard and also in raring..
<pmcgowan> bfiller, ^^
<popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maliit-plugins/+bugs just seems surprisingly empty
<popey> wondered where they went when we moved off springbok
<user82> does the "docking desktop experience" work with a slimport hdmi out on nexus 4?
<WebbyIT> user82: not now
<user82> ok but that is the plan WebbyIT ?
<user82> now now is what i was expecting ;)
<popey> the plan is for you to be able to plug a phone with capable output/input to screen/keyboard and use it as a desktop, yes.
<user82> i was just curious if you need a special dock or something.
<popey> well you need something, cable, whatever
<popey> i dont think there are many nexus 4 specific docks
<popey> but there are a few slimport cables
<jhodapp> bfiller, ping
<pmcgowan> popey, still about?
<sergiusens> bfiller: pmcgowan installing https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta-proper/+build/4493311/+files/libqt5webkit5_5.0.1-0ubuntu2~raring1~test3_armhf.deb fixes DPR issue
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, did you replace the 5.0.2 version?
<popey> pmcgowan: yes
<pmcgowan> popey, are you following the development of whosthere, the whatsapp app
<popey> aware of it, not followed it recently
<popey> developer hasn't been about for a while
<popey> no commits in 2 months
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: yeah, just dpkg -i  the one I linked... problem with a build is that it's not published anywhere
<pmcgowan> popey, I see changes from 3/21
<pmcgowan> https://code.launchpad.net/~m-gehre/whosthere/trunk
<popey> i went by the "rounded" 2 months figure on github
<popey> so yeah, sounds right
<popey> https://github.com/mgehre/whosthere
<pmcgowan> maybe reach out for an update
<popey> yeah, i pinged a while back, will try again
<popey> you interested in including the app?
<pmcgowan> possibly, its a killer one popey
<popey> yeah, I expect it's on Cristians magic list
<popey> have fired a mail anyway.
<melnaquib> hi every body
<ZDmitry> mhall119|away: ping
<ZDmitry> it's bit strange: terminall app plugin revision is still 10 at Core Apps PPA, when we already have landed revision 11.
<melnaquib> is app-weather-team meeting on
<popey> fginther: is there a jenkins issue for core apps? weather app guys are reporting the builds aren't happening?
<fginther> popey, I'll take a look
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily/+build/4539167
<popey> 19:41:35 < m-b-o> tests/autopilot/install_autopilot.sh: line 3: python: command not found
<plars> sergiusens: I missed om26er, do you know what the state of the autopilot tests are?
<popey> plars: waiting on some people merging, and some devs on vacation so that hasn't happened AIUI
<popey> (from the daily call earlier)
<plars> popey: ack, thanks
<fginther> popey, I only see one merge proposal for ubuntu-weather-app and it's set to 'work-in-progress'. I see nothing for jenkins to do
<fginther> popey, is there a specific merge proposal that isn't working?
<fginther> popey, the jenkins server itself is up and running
<sergiusens> plars: from what I know, not entirely working
<sergiusens> plars: I can do a context switch tomorrow and we can just work on that _if the image works_ :-/
<popey> m-b-o: neokore ^^ see fginther's reply
<plars> sergiusens: I'm not in a super big hurry for it, just wondering
<plars> sergiusens: Jenkins got updated and has been giving me some trouble I'm trying to sort through at the moment
<sergiusens> plars: ok, so you are not idle :-)
<plars> sergiusens: also, I think we might have to do something creative with the nexus 10s
<m-b-o> fginther: builds for raring and saucy have failed https://launchpadlibrarian.net/138862083/buildlog_ubuntu-raring-i386.ubuntu-weather-app_0.1bzr19raring0_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<plars> sergiusens: power issues... I just heard a bit earlier today from our lab guy that adb doesn't seem to work if the screen is turned off
<plars> sergiusens: is that something y'all are aware of?
<pmcgowan> plars, sergiusens thats a side effect of the recent changes from what I can tell
<pmcgowan> it actually seemed odd to me that adb worked during suspend
<chilicuil> hi there, is the ubuntu-nexus7-installer taking too mucho for some else?, I'm getting the following output: 'sending 'userdata' (691753 KB)...' for 20 mins now
<plars> pmcgowan: it works in suspend on android
<plars> pmcgowan: and on the 10s, with the screen powered up, it discharges slowly even when on usb
<pmcgowan> right
<popey> yeah, not enough current to power device + screen from a usb port
<plars> the one I've had connected, but mostly idle is sitting at 82% all day right now
<pmcgowan> plars, need to ask sergiusens why that happened when we disabled mtp
<plars> pmcgowan: also, adb seems to work ok on my other devices with touch when the screen is off
<plars> just not the manta
<pmcgowan> I thought it always worked
<plars> it has on other devices, not sure about the 10. We just got that
<nono68200> I love Ubuntu Touch! :D
<BHSPiMonkey> I should get it set up again
<BHSPiMonkey> nono68200: does hdmi out work?
<bfiller> sergiusens: do we have the source for that qtwebkit deb? can push a new source package to the ppa
<nono68200> @BHSPiMonkey: I have only a Galaxy Nexus. He hasn't HDMI output.
<jhodapp> bfiller, you around?
<BHSPiMonkey> nono68200: pretty sure it does...
<fginther> m-b-o, very strange. launchpad failed to build because it couldn't find python???  I can't reproduce this locally, so I retried the build in launchpad
<BHSPiMonkey> nono68200: just need an MHL adapter like this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005F9W6DU/
<nono68200> Oh well okay, it has HDMI output, but I haven't adapter to try it at my home. ;P
<m-b-o> fginther: thanks. yes it's strange..
<nik90> m-b-o: are you or anyelse in your team working on getting the user location via geoip?
<m-b-o> neokore started with it
<popey> you're using qtlocation, right?
<nik90> popey: I read through the qtlocation docs. However it requires a source like gps, or ip address or something
<nik90> m-b-o: ah.. I will keep tabs on the progress, then I can port it for the clock-app as well.
<nik90> m-b-o: oh one more thing. Are you guys using qtlocale to display the numbers in regional formats?
<sergiusens> plars: pmcgowan how about lowering the brightness? Still ChickenCutlass is going to add auto screen off
<m-b-o> nik90: using Qt.formatTime
<m-b-o> for now
<plars> sergiusens: yeah, that's an option, will have to see if it makes enough of a difference, and also do it after every install. One thing we'll want to make sure of on the auto screen off - is that there is a way to disable it for testing.
<popey> nik90: but you don't have to provide that though, that's a backend which "we" (system level services) provide.
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, what changed with adb no longer working during suspend
<popey> so initially qtlocation can be "good enough" for city level location via IP, then in the future can be improved by us adding GPS hooks to the backend
<nik90> popey: yeah that's why I was aking about geoip work. I can combine the qtlocation with the geoip stuff
<nik90> asking*
<nik90> m-b-o: what about the temperatures? Do you guys just display the temperature after reading it from the API or wrap it around qtlocale stuff?
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: well it disconnects on maguro which didn't expose mtp by default, so I guess it's because of that... but I won't know wihtout checking
<pmcgowan> nik90,  qtlocation will include output of geoip along with gps etc
<m-b-o> nik90: what's coming from the api. Â°C/Â°F will be an app setting.
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ok, definitely changed with your tweak
<m-b-o> nik90: there's an api-param for the metric
<nik90> pmcgowan: oh ok.
<nik90> m-b-o: would that mean that if the locale is arabic for instance, then the temperature will still be shown as 36 Â°C/Â°F instead of showing the numbers in Arabic?
<m-b-o> never thought about it, to be honest. interesting question
<nik90> we are testing the locale stuff for clock app, and the numbers are not translated. Instead we plan to use qtlocale where it will substitue the right language for the numbers when they are displayed
<nik90> m-b-o: I will let you if it works well. Then you guys can use the same stuff we did
<m-b-o> would be great!
<ZDmitry> BHSPiMonkey, nono68200: I tried on my GNexus HDMI and it works, but there are no landscape mode for that. Also with I tried wireless keyboard - Logitech K400 and it works too. It's bad that GNexus hasn't separate HDMI input.
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: well I may be wrong!
<BHSPiMonkey> ZDmitry: does it just mirror the phone display? I didn't know if any of the "full desktop" stuff was a reality yet
<ZDmitry> BHSPiMonkey: Yes, it just mirror display. And top of the image is on left side of tv display.
<BHSPiMonkey> sad
<bfiller> jhodapp: hey you looking for me?
<jhodapp> bfiller, yeah, just an update on the orientation breakage
<jhodapp> bfiller, looks like it's broken because of the new Qt 5.0.2 packaging in a similar manner to what we've battled before...the build/packaging isn't quite right...it's not loading the QtSensors plugin that I wrote like it didn't when we used qt5-beta
<bfiller> jhodapp: argh
<jhodapp> bfiller, I'm not sure why that's so hard to get right, but this seems to happen with every Qt update now
<bfiller> jhodapp: can you file a bug with the details and email the list/Timo about the issue. Hopefully timo can take care of it tomorrow.
<bfiller> jhodapp: thank you for tracking this down
<jhodapp> bfiller, where's the best place to file this bug?
<jhodapp> bfiller, sure, np
<bfiller> jhodapp: let me see
<bfiller> jhodapp: I'd say against the sdk b/c don't know a better place: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<jhodapp> bfiller, sounds good
<jhodapp> thanks
<bfiller> jhodapp: assign to timo jyrinki
<jhodapp> k
<sergiusens> plars: popey can you check https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/1175806/+merge/163212
<sergiusens> ?
<popey> sure sergiusens
<sergiusens> popey: I can write instructions for testing... but you can branch and test the network setup in there
<popey> no need, I can test it
<tomekPL> hi
<tomekPL> can I install ubuntu touch on my sony ericsson xperia neo v?
<tomekPL> this phone has got ARMv7 1GHz
<ZDmitry> tomekPL: list of supported devices -  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<tomekPL> oh :c here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/ is info, that works with ARMv7, so I thought my phone also can run this OS
<tomekPL> can I test ubuntu touch in virtual machine, like virtualbox?
<ZDmitry> tomekPL: You can try it on your phone - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/haida
<ZDmitry> There are no image for virtual machines yet.
<tomekPL> ok
<tomekPL> tx
<tomekPL> thx
<ZDmitry> np
<plars> sergiusens: not working for me
<plars> sergiusens: it gets to 'Network not ready, sleeping' in a loop, then just exits silently.
<plars> sergiusens: after it runs, I seem to have an ip on the phone, but I can't ping anything
<plars> ah, I can ping now, but no resolv
<plars> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5648997/
<sergiusens> plars: can you try again and remove comment out the set -e at the beginning?
<plars> sergiusens: yeah, I'm reflashing just to make sure it's clean
<plars> sergiusens: hah, and that time it worked...
<plars> sergiusens: I'll run it a few more times, and we'll see how popey does with it too
<popey> sorry, been in meetings all for the last few hours, will have a go in a short while
<popey> sergiusens: left a comment on the merge
<sergiusens> popey: thanks
<popey> sergiusens: personally I'd sleep for between 5 and 10 seconds
<popey> that's what I did in my script
<popey> 10s to be certain
<sergiusens> popey: I'll raise the wait
<popey> k
<plars> sergiusens: yeah, with the -e it fails
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, as promised, here is my vomit inducing lights app: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5FJrRFh0t8&feature=youtu.be
<pmcgowan> rickspencer3, sweet
<pmcgowan> but I was hoping for a fart app
<ajalkane> Combined vomit-fart app would be the killer application for sure
<ssweeny> in that case what we need is to make a deal with taco bell
<popey> how good are the speakers on modern phones?
<popey> a "brown note" app should be possible eventually ã
<sergiusens> plars: I removed the -e just now
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, fart app is up next
<sergiusens> popey: I pushed a longer timeout
<rickspencer3> I will *own* this app store
<popey> sergiusens: ok, will reflash and try again
<sergiusens> popey: no need to reflash
<popey> yeah, i should just delete the wifi profile..
<sergiusens> popey: just delete /data/ubuntu/etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/*
<plars> popey: ewww,  brown note, for that truly immersive mobile experience
<plars> sergiusens: repulled, works fine now
<user82> i would like to see an app that can set the typical values for custom kernels...
<sergiusens> plars: great
<sergiusens> plars: regardign the protocol error bug
<sergiusens> plars: you see only an issue when going from root to push? or from push to push?
<plars> sergiusens: I'd have to look back.. that one is a bit more rare now
<plars> sergiusens: but then there's the other error that seems to happen after adb root, then the push of the file to recovery partition
<plars> sergiusens: the no such device error
<sergiusens> plars: ok, because we have a 'wait-for-device' right in the middle there :-/
<plars> sergiusens: iirc, I've seen cases where right after doing adb root, the device becomes invisible for a sec
<sergiusens> plars: let me add a safeguard
<plars> sergiusens: right... the one time where you want to wait, but wait-for-device won't work
<plars> ok, where can I get python-ubuntu-platform-api from now?
<sergiusens> plars: why do you need it?
<plars> sergiusens: autopilot-touch
<plars> it doesn't seem to be in the autopilot stable ppa
<popey> sergiusens: works perfectly now
<popey> thanks
<sergiusens> plars: hmmm.... nope, it's either in ppa:phablet-team or ppa:ubuntu-unnity/daily-build-next
<plars> pill ping thomi on it
<plars> *will
<sergiusens> popey: Happrove then :-)
<popey> oh yeah
<popey> done
<sergiusens> plars: https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/1176929/+merge/163223
<plars> sergiusens: ack
<vertab7> Hi all, Jay from England
<vertab7> not new to computing, but new to linux
<vertab7> anyone here familiar with the ubuntu/android 'mix' used on the Nexus 7 pwnpad ?
<vertab7> anyone here?
<pmcgowan> vertab7, sure do you have questions?
<vertab7> aha!
<vertab7> my first ever time on a relay chat
<pmcgowan> vertab7, just fire away and folks will see your questions, and answer if they can
<vertab7> just loaded mirc n figuring out what to do.......
<vertab7> I have a Nexus 7 tab with the pwnpad community edition from pwnieexpress.com, it runs a 'mix' of ubuntu (for the tools) and the adroid touchy front end(thro' SSH) , anyone have any experience with this? my lack of linux exxp is holding me back (tho learning fast...)
<vertab7> its pwniee's cooked kernel I guess with JB2.2 android
<pmcgowan> interesting, had not heard of that
<vertab7> Im impressed with it, if I could use/understand/set it up better I'm sure I'd be more impressed....
<vertab7> http://pwnieexpress.com/collections/featured/products/pwnpad
<vertab7> thats the link to the setup
<vertab7> yeh I know its pricey, but Ive done it on a budget
<vertab7> have the correct dongles etc.
<pmcgowan> unfortunately I dont think anyone on this channel will know about it specifically
<vertab7> I need some help just with basic linux commands in a terminal to control wifi
<pmcgowan> vertab7, try #ubuntu-devel then, more folks with general experience there
<vertab7> it seems linux flavours vay in syntax for the same req'd operation? I have tried many combinations, ie iwconfig wlan1 etc. to associate with an AP doest work
<vertab7> using 'dhclient'
<pmcgowan> are you prefixing with sudo
<vertab7> ah, thnkx for teh suggestion, Illl try there too
<pmcgowan> if its normal ubuntu most system commands require that
<vertab7> I have root and a rooted device, it doesnt like sudo, but I get a return on su
<pmcgowan> hmm, not sure what they have done then, probably rebuilt some stuff in the android evnironment
<pmcgowan> so it may not act like std ubuntu
<vertab7> true, its quite clever it has Android SSH server and openssh-server in the Ubuntu
<vertab7> 12.04 chroot environment Android Terminal Emulator to have full root access, it must SSH into localhost (thus all
<vertab7> current apps login to localhost before running any commands or pentest tools). so the android desktop icons are like shortcuts??
<vertab7> to the ubunto enviro and tools
<vertab7> anyway , I'll persue at 'devs'
<vertab7> thnx all.
 * snwh is away: going to refill on calories
<plars> sergiusens: we'll probably need https://code.launchpad.net/~pwlars/phablet-tools/new-autopilot/+merge/163235 once the tests all start working again
<sergiusens> plars: yup, and we won't need ppa:phablet-team/tools
<plars> sergiusens: we will until it goes to saucy right?
<plars> when is that happening?
<moocow1452> Anyone home?
<thoonai> heyo
<thoonai> good evening all together
<thoonai> someone here ;) ?
<thoonai> is there a branch of ubuntu touch for x86 tablets?
<thoonai> I don't want to use android x86
 * snwh is back (gone 00:48:55)
#ubuntu-touch 2013-05-10
<moocow1452> Anyone good with SurfaceFlinger and hwcomposer?
<Jroc0912> hey there. I have an evo 4g lte and a toshiba thrive that I would love to have running Ubuntu. I have rummaged through countless forums today and all posts about it has seemed to stop over a month ago. Does anybody know if there has been any progress on these devices or when I will be able to get a fully functional Ubuntu up and running on them
<Jroc0912> ugh guess not. Thanks for being helpful
<Mirv> kenvandine: xembed patch is in the 5.0.2 qtbase package
<Mirv> renato_: did you see your commit comments in gerrit? since it wouldn't be acceptable as is, I think I'll remove the patch from our qtpim as well for now until a solution acceptable to upstream is found
<chriadam> which QtPim backend are you using, out of interest?  An updated version of the syncevolution one?  Or something else?
<Mirv> chriadam: just packaging a snapshot from https://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qtpim, nothing else
<chriadam> Mirv: ah ok
<popey> morning
<oSoMoN> mardy_: hey, I filed bug #1178552 to follow up on bug #1177964, could you please confirm it?
<ubot5> bug 1178552 in webbrowser-app "Need separate packages for the plugin and the app" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178552
<ubot5> bug 1177964 in Online Accounts: Sign-on UI "signon-ui in ubuntu-touch should use Ubuntu.Browser plugin" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177964
<mardy_> oSoMoN: yep, looks good
<oSoMoN> mardy_: so, could you please set the status to 'Confirmed'?
<mardy_> oSoMoN: ops, done
<oSoMoN> thx
<oSoMoN> mardy_: could you please also confirm bug #1178601 ?
<ubot5> bug 1178601 in webbrowser-app "Need to expose 'url' and 'loading' properties on the Browser component" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178601
<mardy_> oSoMoN: done, thanks
<tux1986> hello everybody
<tux1986> does somebody know wether the adb tools found the nexus that run with ubuntu 13.04 or something like that or only if adnroid on the nexus?
<tux1986> i want to run ubuntu touch on nexus 7 and adb did not found the device with running ubuntu 13.04 on it
<ogra_> there is no adb ... its the desktop install ...
<ogra_> boot into recovery mode and use the manual install method described on the touch install wiki
<tux1986> it used adb on the desktop too if see write
<tux1986> i have installed ubuntu 13.04 installed on the nexus 7 and want to install ubuntu touch like the wiki says and it failed at 'adb devices' with device not found
<ogra_> there is no adb ... its the desktop install ...
<ogra_> boot into recovery mode and use the manual install method described on the touch install wiki
<ogra_> (see, i can repeat my answers as well ... )
<tux1986> i do it like you says ogra i change the nexus in recovery mode and run adb push on the desktop
<ogra_> good
<tux1986> it says device not found
<ogra_> adb says that ?
<ogra_> works here
<ogra_> did you do all the preparation stuff described higher above in the wiki ?
<ogra_> (adb restart=server etc)
<ogra_> s/=/-/
<tux1986> ok some restarts latter  adb devices displays me the device and adb push is running
<ogra_> great :)
<tux1986> adb is running and display no output is it right?
<ogra_> for the armhf zip ?
<ogra_> its quite big, it takes a while ...
<tux1986> who long does it run?
<ogra_> 10min or so
<tux1986> ok i wait a while ;)
<ogra_> the armel grouper zip is surely faster :)
<tux1986> i run http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/raring-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip
<ogra_> (make sure you do both zips in the right order, that is very important)
<ogra_> (like the wiki describes)
<user82> does someone have ubuntu touch on a nexus 4? for me it was really really laggy, especially in the dropdown menu. is that normal?
<ogra_> many do ...
<ogra_> and it should not be laggy on the n4 at all
<ogra_> sounds like you found some bug
<user82> oh too bad. for me it was quite laggy in the dropdown menus. unusable i would say
<sergiusens> actually depends on the device... but 10 min is a got average for the slowest one
<user82> maybe i test a daily "end of may" again
<pmcgowan> user82, sounds like there must be something eating up you cpu, can you check top and the logs
<pmcgowan> user82, it should no appear at all slow
<user82> ok thanks pmcgowan
<user82> i flashed back my android but if the problem persists with the first 3g rom(where i will start using ubuntu) i will look into it
<pmcgowan> ok
 * ogra_ really wonders hwy the saucy zip is so much smaller than the raring one
<ogra_> s/hwy/why/
<pmcgowan> ogra_, have you diffed the manifests?
<ogra_> not yet
<ogra_> its 495 vs 524M
<ogra_> waiting for the first fully automated build in 2h
<pmcgowan> maybe all those double versions were cleaned up
<ogra_> my test of the last saucy image didnt really show any nis-function
<pmcgowan> yep
<ogra_> *mis
<pmcgowan> also, I think we just dropped python2.7
<ogra_> but then that was on friday .... and yesyerdays build was having Qt issues
<ogra_> in about 2h there should be a working build i will test
<pmcgowan> cool
<ogra_> at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/  btw
<pmcgowan> ogra_, aha we drop the preview and so its real
<ogra_> yeah
<Mirv> boiko: hi, you probably noticed the bug reports and e-mails. phone-app / qt pim should all work now again, but it'd be nice if you rechecked
<boiko> Mirv: nice! thanks for looking into that
<ogra_> it still uses a gross hack to produce the zip from the tarball ...
<ogra_> until we have a bionic cross toolcahin in the archive
<pmcgowan> ok
<pmcgowan> do you have an alternate settings to use it with p-f?
<pmcgowan> ogra_, ^^
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> we should just switch the default once we know its safe
<pmcgowan> just thought it would make it easier to get more testing, let me look
<ogra_> until we do, i would call it experimental enough that people can just use the manual method
<ogra_> do a normal p-f with the latest ... then adb push the saucy zip to autodeploy.zip and reboot recovery ....
<pmcgowan> ogra_, I am too lazy for that, I have an alternate settings already
<ogra_> well, p-f would need some changes until we start shipping tteh android bits in ubuntu-touch/ anyway
<ogra_> which again hangs on the bionic toolchain
<pmcgowan> ogra_, oh you dont have the android stuff there at all
<ogra_> (like most other image realted stuff)
<pmcgowan> whats the diff between phablet and touch zips
<ogra_> you mean the android layer ?
<ogra_> there is none, we dont produce android stuff in saucy at all yet
<pmcgowan> so we cant really switch until thats done
<sergiusens> Mirv: I approved your sensors MR
<ogra_> we can ... by using the android zips we have from jenkins
<Mirv> sergiusens: thanks. 2 down, 1 to go (qtwebkit)
<ogra_> the resulting zip should be the same either way
<sergiusens> ogra_: pmcgowan difference is what is in ppa:phablet-team
<pmcgowan> ogra_, so the current dir will look the same, just manually copy them to it
<ogra_> and i could just sync into ubuntu-touch/
<ogra_> sergiusens, on the android layer ?
<pmcgowan> ogra_, I was asking the diff between phablet.zip and touch.zip
<sergiusens> ogra_: is network manager fixed?
<ogra_> sergiusens, nope
<ogra_> i dont think there were any fixes at all since last friday
<ogra_> apart from me working on image building
<ogra_> cyphermox,  ^^^ is merging NM on your TODO ?
<pmcgowan> do we have a hitlist of things to do before saucy transition
<sergiusens> ogra_: so what I'm saying is, if hybris changes today, the android layer will change but saucy won't (ppa:phablet-team)
<user82> pmcgowan, i do not know the details but is it completely impossible to include dalvikvm in ubuntu touch? licence or tech wise?
<ogra_> pmcgowan, phablet.zip vs touch.zip is differing in the underlying system ... beyond that they use the same PPAs (until finally everyone starts uploading too saucy instead of PPAs
<ogra_> )
<sergiusens> user82: you can do it tech wise, but it's not the focus
<user82> ok sergiusens
<pmcgowan> user82, tech wise no, license would also be ok but would cause other issues for manufacturers
<ogra_> sergiusens, oh, could you copy that to saucy then ?
<user82> ok
<pmcgowan> also dalvik is just the VM, you ned to look into the runtime deps
<pmcgowan> so its a big thing tech qise
<pmcgowan> wise
<user82> allright thanks. do not really miss it once the basic apps are complete more a question of personal interest
<sergiusens> ogra_: it hasn't changed yet ;-)
<ogra_> sergiusens, oops, missed the "if" :)
<pmcgowan> ogra_, I didnt understand the last answer, I see a touch_armhf.tar.gz and a phablet_armhf.zip
<sergiusens> ogra_: but those should land for saucy if they change eventually
<pmcgowan> why two things
<sergiusens> ogra_: the META-INF, is it the same one from raring or did you fork it?
<ogra_> pmcgowan, oops, thanks ! ... typo in my evil script !
<ogra_> sergiusens, i had to fork it minimally ...
<pmcgowan> ogra_, sergiusens I think we have a session next week to review the transition and ensure we have all the pre-requisite steps
<mibofra> oi ciao :))
<pmcgowan> is that true?
<sergiusens> if it's not there we should!
<pmcgowan> right, we need to do the blueprint today if its not there
<sergiusens> ogra_: was that in the list of BPs you were going to setup?
<mibofra> ops sorry XD
<mibofra> I've changed channel guys XD
<ogra_> sergiusens, nope, just raw hackery yet...
<ogra_> sergiusens, run_program("/sbin/mv", "/data/ubuntu_tmp_extract", "/data/ubuntu");
<ogra_> in updater-script
<ogra_> the official tarballs dont have a "binary" toplevel dir, just /
<ogra_> pmcgowan, phablet vs touch fixed ... the new build should come out at preinstalled-touch like it should
<ogra_> s/at/as/
<pmcgowan> ogra_, ok
<jhodapp> sergiusens, the sensor MR worked for you? Did you build your own package and install it to the target?
<sergiusens> jhodapp: hey, just say you claimed the review
<pmcgowan> ogra_, can you make a bp for the saucy image work
<sergiusens> jhodapp: I already Happroved, we can switch back
<sergiusens> jhodapp: well I fixed the build, then used the deb that came out of jenkins
<jhodapp> sergiusens, no that's ok, if you got it to work then it must be working...I don't know why it didn't work for me
<sergiusens> jhodapp: seem my comment :-)
<ogra_> pmcgowan, on my TODO already ... just didnt register it yet
<pmcgowan> vg thanks
<sergiusens> jhodapp: tried on maguro, and can try on manta as well if it makes sense
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, will we spin a new raring build this morning?
<jhodapp> sergiusens, couldn't hurt to try it on manta
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: the webkit bug isnt' fixed yet... and the sensors was just looked at today... so it would be broken
<jhodapp> sergiusens, what build # did you try this on?
<sergiusens> jhodapp: 119
<sergiusens> jhodapp: my manta has 118 with a dist-upgrade I did to track down the issue... I'll test there too
<jhodapp> sergiusens, ok, leave it as approved then...my setup must be funny then
<sergiusens> jhodapp: nah, pulling out the manta :-)
<ogra_> wasnt 119 broken ?
<ogra_> (due to Qt)
<ogra_> sergiusens, btw, tell me once i can enable syncing again, i see colin switched it off
<Mirv> jhodapp: I tried the sensors on a mako
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah 119 is broken
<jhodapp> Mirv, works ok?
<Mirv> jhodapp: yes, I wouldn't have submitted the merge proposal otherwise :)
<jhodapp> Mirv, do you have a galaxy nexus?
<Mirv> jhodapp: I did notice your supplied qtsensors.qml used the dummy output unless I disabled that plugin, but it gave the "Registered..." text in all cases and all apps worked
<sergiusens> Mirv: jhodapp works fine on manta as well
<Mirv> jhodapp: unfortunately not
<jhodapp> sergiusens, awesome, thanks
<Mirv> sergiusens: ok, thanks
<jhodapp> Mirv, hmm ok, you should probably see about getting one since that's our primary target atm.
<ogra_> ++
<sergiusens> jhodapp: I won't Happrove since I see you added Needs Fixing ;-)
<ogra_> they are hard to get though ...
<sergiusens> jhodapp: you can download the deb from the MR btw
<jhodapp> sergiusens, now you can Happrove
<sergiusens> jhodapp: maguro is the target, but not everyone is going to have one as you can't buy them anymore
<pmcgowan> jhodapp, we have 4 reference designs, not everyone can have all of them
<jhodapp> sergiusens, oh really, hmm
<pmcgowan> nexus is mainly prime for devs since its the lowest capability
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: they are all nexus ;-)
<pmcgowan> indeed
<jhodapp> pmcgowan, makes sense...I though Mirv might want one for testing out the performance of new Qt versions on low-end hardware
<Mirv> jhodapp: before last week I didn't have any device, so I'm happy I have at least one device. my arm Qt building is also doable with that in case needed.
<pmcgowan> jhodapp, I think some others can do that
<jhodapp> right
<sergiusens> Mirv: so what's the issue with qtwebkit and the patch not applying?
<ogra_> jhodapp, thats why we have a QA team ;)
<ogra_> we need to make more use of them
<Mirv> sergiusens: if you take  lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/qtwebkit-opensource-src , and try to apply the add_experimentalDevicePixelRatio.patch as it was until bzr26 in that branch on top of Qt 5.0.2, it fails
<jhodapp> ogra_, QA team, what's that? ;p
<ogra_> as soon as the word "test" comes up in a sentence it should scream QA to you ;)
<Mirv> sergiusens: so I modified the patch to apply, see bzr diff -r 26..27, and the first thought would be that I modified it wrong and that's why it doesn't work. the other option is that something else changed in qtwebkit 5.0.2
<cyphermox> ogra_: yes, it is
<ogra_> ah, cool, so the saucy image should work then
<sergiusens> ogra_: cyphermox in the TODO or done?
<ogra_> oh, heh
 * ogra_ was assuming a yes to the merge :) not to the list addition
<cyphermox> ogra_: in todo
<ogra_> k
<cyphermox> I can't just take the patches that were on raring/quantal for touch, they're not right for desktop
<cyphermox> where can I try the saucy image?
<ogra_> soon from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/
<ogra_> the 20130510/ image should start being usable
<ogra_> (i hope)
<ogra_> cdimage should spit it out within the next hour
<jmanuel_cool> hi
<jmanuel_cool> someone speak spanish?????
<ogra_> people in spain do ... i heard
<jmanuel_cool> ok, can i install ubuntu touch on my huawei UM840???
<ogra_> check the devices wikipage
<jmanuel_cool> i was reading wiki, but can't find this hardware
<ogra_> !devices | jmanuel_cool
<ubot5> jmanuel_cool: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<ogra_> if it isnt there you can do a port (or try to find somebody to do it for you)
<jmanuel_cool> thank ogra_
<ogra_> !porting | jmanuel_cool
<ogra_> !ports | jmanuel_cool
<ubot5> jmanuel_cool: For instructions on how to set up port-forwarding (for games, torrents, webservers) see http://portforward.com - also see !firewall
<ogra_> bah
<ogra_> popey, dont we have a command for the ports page ?
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: that's sound cool, but i'm not programmer :'C
<ogra_> (teh porting link is in the channel topic btw)
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: i find this device https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/u8815 << which is similar (but not equal) hardware, but wikipage is empty
 * jmanuel_cool apologize for his worst english
<ogra_> i can understand you ... so your english is good enough :)
<ogra_> the page has links in the top table
<popey> ogra_: dont think so
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: i'm reading links, but job can be rude
<jmanuel_cool> well, i have other smartphone like mine, but the touch screen is broken (image can be displayed, but "tactil" don't work), i think to try with this
<popey> ogra_: is ubuntu_stamp going to move at some point?
<popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/ubuntu_stamp will be somewhere else?
<ogra_> its a jenkins thing
<popey> I mean, the directory structure is changing?
<popey> s/-preview// ?
<ogra_> if we dont use jenkins, the cdimage dir and .disk/info files are your stamp as on every other ubuntu install
<ogra_> right, cdimage buiulds should not have the -preview anymore
<popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/ubuntu_stamp is missing because the build was done manually, not via jenkins?
<popey> (I want to monitor that file so I know when a new build is done)
<jmanuel_cool> ok, another question, Â¿what environment this use? Â¿can i use other? like e16/17
<ogra_> popey, not manually, via a proper buildsystem :)
<popey> meow
<popey> â»
<ogra_> jmanuel_cool, no, there is no Xorg on the images, so you can not use any apps that use X
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: ??????
<ogra_> jmanuel_cool, ubuntu-touch does not use X
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: why?????
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: >> http://g300.thebronasium.com/screenshots/ubuntu/device-2013-02-27-211800_thumb.png << it's a joke?????
<ogra_> because it will use Mir (and currently uses androids SurfaceFlinger) as display server
<ogra_> no, thats how ubuntu-touch looks like
<popey> if you're looking at it from a far away..
<ogra_> but it does use its own display server, X applications do not run
<Mirv> (yet)
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: ok, now i understand
<jmanuel_cool> ogra_: porting link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
<ogra_> popey, wget -q -O - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/| html2text |grep " 2013"|tail -1|cut -d" " -f2
<ogra_> should work until end of the year :)
<popey> hah
<popey> thanks
<ogra_> (can surely be cleaner, thats just a quick and dirty one)
<popey> are we moving away from build numbers to build dates?
<ogra_> we are moving towards the generic build system
<popey> hm
<ogra_> which does "$datestamp.$sequence"
<ogra_> (mitting .$sequence if $sequence is empty)
<ogra_> *omitting
<sergiusens> Mirv: do you mind removing the current qtwebkit build? I copied the ~test3 one to phablet-team just in case... if so we can re enable the builds and fix this in parallel
 * jmanuel_cool downloading everything for flash his device
<sergiusens> ogra_: pmcgowan I compared the manifests, packagewise, usb and consolekit are the only removals I can quickly see
<ogra_> usb ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: libgusb2:armhf 0.1.5-0ubuntu1 and  libusb-1.0-0:armhf 2:1.0.12-2ubuntu1
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> yeah that switches to 2.0 afaik
<ogra_> and CK is dead and gone
<sergiusens> yup, still wouldn't explain the big image
<ogra_> not really
<ogra_> i mean, binaries might be smaller due to gcc 4.8 .... but not to that extend
<sergiusens> unless it's a livebuild thing...
<popey> compression level?
<ogra_> we use -9 on cdimage
<ogra_> -9 --rsyncable actually
<ogra_> (for gziping the tarball)
<smagster> back to the X11 ?....so is anyone working on it for ubuntu-touch
<ogra_> ask in #ubuntu-mir
<ogra_> but i doubt its in the focus
<ogra_> (thats rather a 14.04 task)
 * ogra_ would appreciate if people with other nexus devices could test the zip from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<Mirv> sergiusens: I wouldn't remove it unless the old version is known to work with newer qt.. the version mismatch complaints (can't mix 5.0.1 with 5.0.2) come up often
<kenvandine> aquarius, i took your maps patch and proposed it for you https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/friends-app/maps/+merge/163332
<kenvandine> :)
 * ogra_ kind of has the feeling that saucy is way more responsive
<aquarius> hey kenvandine, sorry, I haven't had time to look at it :(
<ogra_> but that might be a subjective impression or just wishful thinking
<pmcgowan> ogra_, gcc enhancements?
<ogra_> probably
<ogra_> try it :)
<kenvandine> aquarius, mind giving it a review?  i also tweaked some labels to make the location name look like it is a button
<ogra_> no networking though
<kenvandine> aquarius, no worries :)
<pmcgowan> ogra_, no networking!
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> it uses network-manager from the archive which doesnt have the patches yet
<aquarius> kenvandine, I did note that dropping letters now doesn't have any music on my desktop, presumably because the phone can't do music?
<kenvandine> aquarius, right
<kenvandine> i couldn't figure out how to make it fail gracefully
<kenvandine> instead of crashing
<Mirv> sergiusens: tested downgrading quickly and webrowser-app continues to work, so removed for now (a copy is still in qt5-beta-proper). I do have a memory that qtwebkit didn't appear to have the version clash problem at some point earlier, so maybe it just works.
<Mirv> sergiusens: if the webkit 5.0.2 is needed back, it can be copied
<sergiusens> Mirv: ok, if we need it, we will need it with the webkit fix
<sergiusens> *DPR fix
<popey> ogra_: got intructions for manually installing those files on a nexus 4? I only ever use phablet-flash â»
<ogra_> popey, boot into recovery ... adb push /path/to/saucy/zip /sdcard/autodeploy.zip; adb reboot recovery
<aquarius> kenvandine, did the thing that meant that no posts had locations get fixed? that's why I didn't submit the branch before
<popey> ogra_: ta
<ogra_> works also without recovery but i dont know if the mapping of /sdcard is the same on the n4
<kenvandine> i had a handful from facebook
<popey> ogra_: no need for the tgz?
<ogra_> nope
<kenvandine> and of course foursquare all had them
<popey> k
<ogra_> just the zip
<kenvandine> aquarius, so i tested it
<aquarius> kenvandine, aah, that was it. I only use twitter, and twitter locations weren't showing up, so I couldn't test it properly
<kenvandine> aquarius, for an easy way to test it, i removed all my other accounts
<kenvandine> and just left foursquare :)
<aquarius> kenvandine, which also means that I can't meaningfully review it, though :(
<aquarius> s'pose I could just add a foursquare account, couldn't i?
<kenvandine> hehe :)
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> if you remove your twitter account, the rows will get purged from the model
<kenvandine> so you can then get a feed of just foursquare
<kenvandine> just for testing
<aquarius> kenvandine, oi! it doesn't *do* foursquare.
<kenvandine> ?
<aquarius> I have no option in online accounts to add a foursquare account.
<kenvandine> friends-foursquare
<kenvandine> install that
<kenvandine> which should pull in account-plugin-foursquare
<aquarius> oh
<aquarius> heh
<aquarius> friends doesn't depend on all its account types?
<kenvandine> it does
<kenvandine> the plugins do
<kenvandine> you didn't have friends-foursquare installed
<aquarius> but friends itself doesn't depend on all its plugins?
<aquarius> how would I know that friends-foursquare existed?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> software center :)
<kenvandine> it suggests them all
<aquarius> ya, but friends is gonna be default, right?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> on twitter and facebook are in main
<kenvandine> different level of support
<aquarius> at that point, either we should also ship all the plugins, or there should be some way of alerting the user that they can add foursquare, I think
<aquarius> oh, we don't *want* people to add other plugins unless they know what they're doing?
<kenvandine> well, i want them to
<kenvandine> but we don't necessarily want to have to support everything plugin anyone contributes
<kenvandine> we want to make sure it is well maintained
<kenvandine> foursquare is though
<kenvandine> we should come up with a way to make that more discoverable
<aquarius> I have to actually remove my twitter account? I can't just block friends from accessing it?
<kenvandine> but, if someone knows they want foursquare, they'll look in software center and see it's available
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> you can probably just block it
<kenvandine> if not... that's a bug :)
<aquarius> disagree completely. It never would have occurred to me that Ubuntu even knows about foursquare.
<aquarius> now, you can argue that my first thing would be to search for a foursquare app, and then I discover the Ubutnu foursquare integration...
<kenvandine> aquarius, how would you install foursquare on your iphone?
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> search for foursquare would show friends
<aquarius> right. If I look for an app.
<aquarius> but bear in mind that, at least near the beginning, most app searches that people do will not have a result.
<aquarius> so people won't instinctively hit the app store for everything, like they do on iphone/android now
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> if we get reliable location support we should add foursquare by default
<aquarius> sweet, the maps work.
<sergiusens> ogra_: just nticed the gallery app in the saucy build may be the busted one
<ogra_> sergiusens, apart from that it works for you ?
<ogra_> (and the other known bugs indeed)
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah, was also testing the save_my_stuff thing... both f the things I used to infer from the UI are broken :-P ... network and gallery
<popey> fginther: when you get a chance, can you update the core apps daily ppa so that it builds for saucy as well as raring please?
<ogra_> mediaplayer and sound too
<ogra_> at least on the gnex
<popey> i just get a black screen on saucy with gallery
<sergiusens> ogra_: those should be fixed... so it might just need a series copy
<sergiusens> popey: it's the bug from last week
<popey> ah ok
<ogra_> i wish people would just upload to saucy
<ogra_> the backporting should be the copy ... not the forward port
<sergiusens> ogra_: we have that task centralized
<sergiusens> ogra_: one person flips the switch and it happens for everything
<ogra_> well, if we dont switch asap we will have less time to fix saucy bugs
<fginther> popey, it already is, is there an issue?
<popey> oh! nope â»
<ogra_> a good citizen :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: sound may be broken because the pulseaudio thing...
<ogra_> yeah
<sergiusens> ogra_: we should tag a raring release and move on
<sergiusens> nmcli
<ogra_> is there a bug filed for pulse ?
<ogra_> well, phablet/network/setup shoould work too, no ?
<ogra_> oops s/\//-/
<sergiusens> ogra_: yeah...
<sergiusens> ogra_: but the polkit thing is what's broke
<ogra_> ah
<sergiusens> ogra_: iirc, cyphermox was waiting on the container flip to fix NM
<ogra_> ok
<ogra_> next onmy todo :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: I can in the meantime create a greater nm version (whch I can later delete).
<sergiusens> same would apply for mountall et.al.
<ogra_> just bump it minimally. esle upgraders will never get the new one
<sergiusens> popey: mind moving back to raring?
<ogra_> mountall is fine
<ogra_> we already get the PPA one by default
<ogra_> i expect to have properly booting flipped image for all nexus devices by end of next week ... depending how much time UDS leaves me
<popey> sergiusens: sure
<sergiusens> ogra_: ack... although _upgraders_ is a story to be told much more in the future, was hoping these packages would be long gone by then
<cyphermox> sergiusens: ogra_: we have some changes w/ logind and stuff, if it's in the chroot NM can just run...
<ogra_> (flipped images without running surfaceflinger though)
<sergiusens> popey: as soon as my saucy, save my stuff is ready, 'm going to ask you to update to that :-P
<popey> ok
<popey> how you doing save my stuff?
<popey> my crappy script just zips up and adb pulls the zip file off
<popey> https://code.launchpad.net/~popey/+junk/phablet-flash-wrapper
<popey> then flashes then pushes the zip back on and unzips it
<sergiusens> popey: I'm saving as part of the zip file :-)
<popey> so will it cater for someone like me who has two devices?
<user82> are daily changelogs available? did not find anything good in google
<pmcgowan> user82, you can find the changelog for each build up on cdimage for example http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/raring-preinstalled.changelog
<user82> thanks pmcgowan
<Pat_PPOS> hi
<Pat_PPOS> network doesn't work with saucy image ?
<ogra_> yeah, known issue
<ogra_> gallery, network, mediaplayer and sound
<sergiusens> popey: pmcgowan https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/touch-preview-images/phablet-build-scripts/+merge/163338
<popey> ok
<Pat_PPOS> saucy image seems to be more fast or fluid
<popey> sergiusens: so I'm running raring on this, do you want me to take some pictures and login to gmail etc to generate locat data/
<popey> ?
<popey> before following your steps
<sergiusens> popey: yeah, I wrote some sort of testing instructions
<sergiusens> and what to expect
<popey> yeah, i see those, but it doesn't recommend creating data first
<popey> just presumes I have some
<ogra_> code wise it looks fine to me
<sergiusens> kenvandine: can you do a copy of gallery-app from raring to saucy in daily-build-next?
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, so we can test that against raring I assume?
<sergiusens> popey: doh... when I wrote check photos taken, forgot to write, 'take photos :-)
<popey> â»
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: against anything actually... should just work
<ogra_> sergiusens, not really
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: just use the image I have uploaded
<pmcgowan> that saveme.zip
<ogra_> (on saucy i mean)
<sergiusens> ogra_: not sure if the question was what you had to have installed on your system or to where
<sergiusens> ogra_: but the image I uploaded is a saucy one ;-)
<ogra_> oh
<sergiusens> ogra_: sans binary ;-)
<ogra_> sans binary ?
<ogra_> how does that work ?
<ogra_> i thought the binary is the interpreter for that script language
<ogra_> oh, sans binary subdir you mean
 * ogra_ thought update-binary
<sergiusens> ogra_: lol... too much of a Friday
<ogra_> heh
<popey> sergiusens: looks good
<popey> sergiusens: trying to phablet-flash back to 118 gives out of space error
<popey> need to tidy up /sdcard
<sergiusens> popey: heh... oh, that can be an issue for big homes :-/
<popey> i only had 3 pictures
<popey> (along with all the pictures/videos we pre-install)
<popey> [which I'd quite like to remove]
<ogra_> big pictures ?
<ogra_> :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: that's my weekend task... not populate messages, remove the demo stuff and create a script to add the demo content
<popey> be nice to optionally add the core apps and collections ppa and the meta packages inside them
<popey> basically..
<popey> add-apt-repository -y ppa:ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/collection
<popey> add-apt-repository -y ppa:ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/daily
<popey> apt-get install --yes touch-collection touch-coreapps
<pmcgowan> popey, my run command is not enabled in qtcreator, I seem to recall this before
<sergiusens> popey: core_apps should be in the sources list
<ogra_> yeah
<popey> sergiusens: sure, but we've only approved some of them to be installed by default
<popey> the "four C's"
<popey> be nice for people to be able to test the others like file manager, rss reader etc
<sergiusens> popey: yeah, but the sources list is already in, so no need to add-apt-repository
<popey> pmcgowan: the green triangle button or the CTRL+F12 button?
<popey> oh, okay, sorry
<pmcgowan> run local
<sergiusens> popey: we can certainly add the collections one
<popey> pmcgowan: i haven't seen that for a while
<pmcgowan> was working the other day
<pmcgowan> foo
<pmcgowan> qtc keeps crashing as well
<pmcgowan> bah
<popey> hmm
<popey> actually
<popey> i have a bunch of orphaned qtc windows
<popey> its definitiely unwell
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: latest phablet tools with bumped version is in ppa
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, ack
<pmcgowan> popey, are you running from the PPA or raring
<sergiusens> ogra_: other weekend task is to upgrade to saucy on the chromebook :-)
<pmcgowan> qtc
<pmcgowan> thats odd
 * jackcy75 greets 
<jackcy75> i got ubuntu touch developer preview running on a galaxy s3 i9300. then i wanted to test more current images. the cdimages from raring and saucy seem to install fine. but i get no output on the screen. do i have to change something on the xda developers image (ubuntu-for-i9300.zip)?
<ogra_> sergiusens, uuuh, brave
<sergiusens> ogra_: :-)
<sergiusens> jackcy75: did you build yourself?
<jackcy75> no, it was accomplished by an xda developer krassewelt: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=38455532
<jackcy75> based on one of the cm10.1 nighties (which work fine)
<popey> pmcgowan: qtcreator  2.7.0-0ubuntu4~raring1~test5
<ogra_> well, if there are changes in ubuntu it needs to be rebuild
<kenvandine> sergiusens, sure
<popey> (from the ppa)
<pmcgowan> popey, hmm not seeing that
<popey> from the ubuntu-sdk-team ppa
<ogra_> jackcy75, ask him to do a fresh build (and he should do that regulary actually)
<sergiusens> jackcy75: well, you probably need a new hybris and platform api if it is too old... do you know if patches exist, were made avail?
<kenvandine> sergiusens, done
<jackcy75> he has not officially submitted his work. but i could ask him to do so and/or allow me to continue his work.
<sergiusens> kenvandine: thanks, one more random question, can a daily build be triggered for lp:qtubuntu-sensors ?
<kenvandine> sure
<sergiusens> jackcy75: well, you would probably need to rebuild
<sergiusens> kenvandine: thanks!
<jackcy75> ok. i think i can figure that out *G*
<jackcy75> thank you
<moocow1452> Anybody home?
<popey> moocow1452: sure
<moocow1452> I've been building for Nook, and finally got something that isn't a black screen.
<popey> nice!
<popey> is it a white screen? ã
<moocow1452> Had to use the MWC build, touch screen doesn't work, and the rotation is 90 degrees off but pretty picture.
<kenvandine> sergiusens, qtubuntu-sensors built
<sergiusens> kenvandine: thanks
<kenvandine> np
<kenvandine> snwh, thanks for the icon, it looks great!
<snwh> kenvandine, no problem :)
<ZDmitry> popey: can You help me with some question on Core Apps PPA, or should I wait for mhall119?
<moocow1452> So, now that I got it displaying, anything I should do to fix the rotation issue and touch screen?
<ZDmitry> I just leave what I want... popey, mhall119|away: Can someone add job for building latest konsole-qml-plugin to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily? Two days past after landing last revision, but still we have old packgage. Thanks.
<jackcy75> I'm sorry to bother you again. In setting up the build environment for I9300, the command breakfast cannot be found anywhere. Is there a package that I am missing? 13.04 amd64.
<popey> ZDmitry: hey
<moocow1452> jackcy did you . build/envsetup.sh?
<popey> fginther: can you help ZDmitry with autolanding konsole-qml-plugin?
<jackcy75> yes, but before i had to chmod +x the envsetup.sh because it was not executable.
<moocow1452> jackcy75, make sure you run it from the build folder everytime you start working with a new terminal.
<jackcy75> moocow1452, do i have to run it as root?
<moocow1452> Shouldn't have to. Wouldn't hurt though.
<jackcy75> hm  still no luck.
<moocow1452> It's not a permant command, so when you open a new terminal, it loses the breakfast command until you rerun . build/envsetup.sh
<moocow1452> jackcy75, can you used brunch?
<jackcy75> I try to resync the build env with "phablet-dev-bootstrap -c I9300", launchpad-id activated, then changed to "cd I9300", ran "./build/envsetup.sh". It included a few *.sh.  but still no luck: breakfast I9300
<jackcy75> breakfast: Befehl nicht gefunden.
<jackcy75> nope, no brunch available
<nik90> .n
<sergiusens> epa
<sergiusens> oops
<moocow1452> jackcy, you included the space right it's . build/envsetup.sh verbatim.
<fginther> popey, ZDmitry, looking
<ZDmitry> fginther:  Can You add job for building latest konsole-qml-plugin to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/daily?
<popey> thanks fginther
<fginther> ZDmitry, the server that runs the jobs is currently down. I'll contact the admins and get back to you.
<ZDmitry> Okay, thanks a lot.
<feltham1983> hey all
<moocow1452> Hey feltham
#ubuntu-touch 2013-05-11
<Braggart> Can we do tethering in the current iteration of Ubuntu Touch?
<Guest45806> wi fi is not turnig on in ubuntu 12.10
<Guest45806> any body help
<hopkinskong> hello, anyone are here?
<hopkinskong> i met some problems on compilation(maybe)?
<hopkinskong> I've followed the guide which is located on the ubuntu-touch wiki.
<hopkinskong> Now, my product is ready
<hopkinskong> file XXXX/system/bin/adb
<hopkinskong> it retuns a "LSB shared object"
<hopkinskong> but when i looked into other android roms for my devices, i found that it should be "LSB executables"
<hopkinskong> Is that compiler problem?
<hopkinskong> hopkins@ubuntu:/media/rfs1/bin$ file adb
<hopkinskong>  adb: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
<hopkinskong>  hopkins@ubuntu:/media/rfs1/bin$ file /media/rfs/bin/adb
<hopkinskong>  /media/rfs/bin/adb: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
<hopkinskong> what it would act that?
<hopkinskong> why*
<hopkinskong> When i run these files, i got MAPERR
<hopkinskong> and Seg. fault
<hopkinskong> Any one>?
<hopkinskong> Any one?
<manish> anybody home?
<dirk> hey guys, is there a way, to get an iso-image to test ubuntu-touch in a virtual box? or what I finally want to do, is to install ubuntu touch on my ACER Iconia Tab W500 (currently running with debian8.0) just for testing
<dirk> and therefore the best for me is an iso image or something similar
<MrBoss> hello, Ubuntu touch works in Galaxy SIII mini ?
<julian_k89> buenas tardes
<dustinsch> hi
<dustinsch> can anyone link me the latest version of ubuntu touch os for the yakju galaxy nexus?
<moocow1452> Guess who has two thumbs and a working build of Ubuntu Touch for Encore?
#ubuntu-touch 2013-05-12
<impex93> Hi everyone :)
<user82> anything new about 3g support on the nexus 4?
<ajalkane> Has something changed and getting console.log output from QML needs to be enabled somehow? Some environment variable?
<ajalkane> What's up? Ubuntu phone development files can't be installed in 13.04? http://pastebin.com/z0UuHcVp
<ajalkane> Seems to relate to upgrade to Qt 5.0.2
<nik90> ajalkane: when I update my system, I noticed that the qtdeclarative-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin has been kept back.
<nik90> ajalkane: hopefully it should be sorted out tomorrow
<ajalkane> nik90: alright. So I'll not waste me time on that and just wait for an update.
<ajalkane> Thanks
<user82> does anyone know how far 3g support on the nexus 4 is?
<ASim215> Hi people!)
<Galahad> Salut/Hello
<user82> popey, does 3g internet work already?
<popey> no
<user82> too bad. maybe in two weeks
<popey> thats a reasonable expectation
<adfad666> is there anything in ubuntu touch that depends on something specific in android 4.2 or would it work on android 4.1 with the same changes made to it?
<wilee-nilee> adfad666, Ubuntu touch is one package with android and the touch combine dthat makes no sense.
<adfad666> from the porting wiki it says ubuntu is simply runnung on top of a minimal android build, I'm wondering if that means it's relatively android version agnostic
<tassadar_> I think it is, it just need some kernel options changed and doesn't really care about the android at all, as long as it can go to chroot
<adfad666> I've got a tablet that simply refuses to run CM10.1 so i'm cherry-picking the changes made by Ricardo Salveti et al just to see if it works
<k1l_> adfad666: it uses the android kernel and the displaymanager. not the android app system (which is a java VM)
<adfad666> k1l_, I get that it doesn't use the app system, perhaps I should ask: does ubuntu touch depend on anything specific in the 4.2 display system or would any display system work?
<k1l_> i dont know the state in which is ubuntu-touch right now. but it used to rely on the cm10.1 base. so if your device doesnt work with that its getting harder. best way is to name your device and look for that specific
<adfad666> it's a Rockchip rk3066 tablet that I only have 4.1 binaries for.
<adfad666> there now exist some 4.2 binaries for other tablets but none for my tablet's resolution
<Alamo777> Hello all! I am willing to install an ubuntu mobile os on my china unkown android 4 device, is there any tutorial for that? Also is there a sence to do that? Is it oing to work faster and give me more proveleges like running python scripts on it and tracing gsm packets? thanks
<user82> Alamo777, which device specifically?
<Alamo777> user82, i dont know it is a phone i buy it from china website
<Alamo777> some kind of fake samsung galaxy ii
<Alamo777> on back it says samsumg:)))
<user82> Alamo777, i really doubt that works...you need to access the boot loader and have a backup rom of your original android. without knowing the exact type of phone that is impossible i think
<Alamo777> how i can know that?
<user82> hah good question. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.electricsheep.asi&hl=de
<user82> with a little luck
<user82> china phones usually have a sticker where sim/battery is palced with a name on it too
<Alamo777> oh that, just a moment i will check that
<user82> probablly have to take the battery out...
<Alamo777> ok it says mobile phone model n9300
<user82> dual core Alamo777 ?
<Alamo777> how i know that? with tha store app?
<user82> uhm yeah i guess
<user82> just look with the app i posted under CPU
<Alamo777> just a moment i will boot up the device:)
<user82> yep. buildinfos and cpu might help
<user82> if you got that write it down and wait for someone to create a modified ubuntu image...i am sure it does not exist yet
<Alamo777> user82, ok, please bear with me i my device is out of battery, just a moment i will get the info and come back later
<user82> i am afk probablly. also you have to know: you can not install ubuntu touch on the device right now you need to be lucky if at any point but with the specific infos you can search for it
<user82> maybe someone makes a ubuntu touch rom for your phone
<Alamo777> where i can check that?
<user82> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<user82> here maybe
<Alamo777> oh ok, anyway the app is almost installed just a second i will get the info and write here
<user82> but i personally doubt someone makes a rom for this phone ever. the china phones are all different specs and not very well known
<Alamo777> ok the buildinfos there is a bunch of information there
<user82> just do the "export system infos"
<user82> in the popup menu
<user82> might remove some personal info. serial#, phone#, IMEI mostly
<Alamo777> there is no any information regarding cpu cores?
<user82> maybe the type/hardware?
<Alamo777> it says cpu revision 1
<user82> well there is some. "processor 0" "processor 1"
<user82> etc
<user82> if you have more than one core
<user82> above "bogomips"
<user82> and maybe "cpu implementer/aarchitecture/hardware"
<Alamo777> ARMv7 Processor rev 1
<user82> yeah that is true for many devices..not enough info to identify it
<user82> nothing more??
<Alamo777> CPU archivetcure 7
<Alamo777> cpu implementator 0x41
<Alamo777> cpu variant 0x0
<Alamo777> xpu part 0xc05
<Alamo777> freq ranga 400.0->1000.0mgz
<Alamo777> wow i can also see the IMSI
<Alamo777> :)
<user82> hmh that could be a lot of cpu's...sorry
<Alamo777> what you mean?
<user82> not really enough info do identify the cpu. or the phone
<Alamo777> i see, anyway if i install the ubuntu, will i be able to work mostly with GSM protocol?
<Alamo777> if it be a samsung or known device for example?
<user82> all the clones from china are almost the same. but it is a little problematic with china phones the tutorial that might work for one phone bricks the next one
<user82> my guess is that you will not be able to install ubuntu touch on this phone ever. maybe get a used nexus 4 or wait for the nexus 5 if you really want ubuntu touch
<Alamo777> i see, more i buy mobile devices more i love them:) I think i will never stop buying them and examining:) What you think is it possible to trace gprs signals and work with GSM protocol with ubuntu-touch? what are the benefits of that? I like to play and expore that stuff. Ok forget about device, but the system info program was very useful:) I want to know some abbilities using ubuntu-touch in working with GSM?
<user82> sorry i am not a developer. i know a littel bit but just from a pure end user perspective
<user82> but by end of may ubuntu touch is supposed to be "usable" with phone calls and 3g data. so yes it should work with GSM then!
<Alamo777> oh i see, :) Thank you so much your help. Though i think it is cool to have a tablet with ubuntu-touch on it installed and running a webserver via wifi
<user82> nexus 7...
<user82> yeah
<Alamo777> user82, wait a sec.....you cant make calls with ubuntu-touch???????
<user82> i think it works with some devices. wait
<user82> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#What_to_expect_after_flashing
<user82> Connection to the GSM network (on Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 4)
<user82> Phone calls and SMS (on Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 4)
<Alamo777> what you mean nexus 7?
<Alamo777> so it is not possible to install ubuntu-touch on iphone device right?
<user82> if you scroll a little you can see the nexus 7 is the only tablet right now which is officialyl supported
<Alamo777> oh ok
<user82> no that will never work
<user82> (likely...)
<user82> there has been one android version for one iphone i think...but that is nonsense
<user82> nexus 10 if you like expensive toys ;)
<Alamo777> i have asus tf201
<Alamo777> i see, so how much cost in the area nexus 7 where you live? Is it expensive?
<user82> with that you might eventually be lucky. maybe someone ports it
<user82> when ubuntu touch is ready i could really imagine it being ported to the tf201
<Alamo777> i see
<user82> nexus 7 is the "google tablet" http://www.google.com/nexus/7/
<Alamo777> what about acer iconia? It is alot way powerfull then tf201 and nexux10 right?
<user82> i read it has a intel atom. intel atom is a different cpu architecture ubuntu touch is not designed to run on.
<Alamo777> user82, yes definitely it has atom and also i5 if i am not wrong
<Alamo777> i saw on review how a dude was running the Mass Effect 3 on iconia with windows8 tablet
<user82> might work yeah
<Alamo777> So is it expensive in area where you live the nexus7 tablet?
<user82> it is almost the same everywhere. $199 or â¬199 where avaiable
<user82> in uk it might be different
<user82> also there are different verions. with 3g internet, without etc
<Alamo777> nexus 7 already has a sim card?
<user82> there is one version with support for 3g internet. no calls
<Alamo777> user82, but you can insert a sim card?
<Alamo777> or some dongle adapter?
<user82> yes sim card
<Alamo777> never seen before, i think i was not quite careful when reading descriptions
<Alamo777> that is awesome i think
<user82> well ubuntu touch for now supports the "googel devices"
<user82> but i am sure when it is usable others will be supported too
<user82> also there is supposed to come out a new google phone this year. until then ubuntu might be fully usable. just be a little patient and see what happens
<user82> other devices see here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Alamo777> well, i can wait:) I ammostly  looking for device smalll powerfull and with sim support, which most of them dont
<user82> under work in progress more tablets are listed
<Alamo777> well as i understand the benefit of android is they work on all unknown devices as well, rather then known brands like ubuntu-touch does
<Alamo777> Which is the best tablet today for you to  buy, the flagman tablet for you?
<Alamo777> i mean the most powerfull
<user82> Alamo777, i did not really follow recent hardware releases
<user82> probably wait what will happen with the next generation nvidia tegra?
<Alamo777> user82, oh ok, anyway thank you for your time, you helped me alot today:)
<user82> glad i could help.
<Alamo777> yes tegra is super i think
<user82> tegra 4 is out very very soon...i think some manufacturers want their tablets with tegra 4 to be ready for cristmas or sooner
<Alamo777> user82, super, one thing i still dont undersand does the ipad last generation is more powerfull then the latest android devices like asus tf301 etc?
<user82> partitally. i think the gpu is yes
<Alamo777> gpu of which one is more powerfull?
<user82> the ipad gpu seems to be the most powerful one
<user82> until tegra4 is out
<Alamo777> i see.
<Alamo777> user82, ok i have once more question:)
<user82> that would be?
<Alamo777> Which one is more powerfull latest MacBookPro or Asus G-series latest laptops? Sorry for such question
<user82> uh..yeah you might go to #ubuntu-offtopic for that
<user82> i think this dicussion is not wanted in the ubuntu touch channel sorry
<Alamo777> :) i promiss this is the last question
<Alamo777> Anyway thank you for explaining about ubuntu-touch, i think it will be best for me to wait for the end of the month and see the latest ubuntu-touch release and understand what is compatible for me to work with GSM protocol
<user82> i think you can get them with the same cpu and gpu but i am not sure..grab the asus tech specs and the mac book ones and google. more oppinions on that in #ubuntu-offtopic
<Alamo777> ok thanks!
#ubuntu-touch 2014-05-05
<Sivik> hey all
<tvoss> w00t, good morning
<w00t> unfortunately so :p
<cwayne> dpm, ping
<dpm> hey cwayne, what are you doing awake at this time? :-)
<cwayne> dpm, just getting a kick start to the day :)
<dpm> :-)
<cwayne> dpm, :) so to answer your email, the scopes code can be found here: https://code.launchpad.net/savilerow
<cwayne> specifically unity-scope-tourism-shanghai-*
<mandel> Elleo, I need to confirm with ogra_ but AFAIK the udm is in the image and we should be able to land the browser changes
 * dpm looks
<mandel> Elleo, I'ld love to see that happening :)
<ogra_> mandel, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/5.changes ?
<ogra_>   [ Michael Sheldon ]
<ogra_>   * Expose the download id of a SingleDownload within the QML API.
 * davidcalle pings cwayne from utopic.
<davidcalle> cwayne, your move ;-)
<dpm> cwayne, cool, thanks. I'd like to file a bug with instructions on how to internationalize the u-s-tourism-shanghai scope, where do I do that?
<cwayne> dpm, log against savilerow pls
<mandel> ogra_, I though we added the qml stuff of the download in the seeds, which is what we need to have udm expose to qml, right?
<dpm> cwayne, cool, thanks
<cwayne> davidcalle, oh man, do-release-upgrade -d
<dpm> will do
<cwayne> davidcalle, starting now :)
<cwayne> dpm, thanks, once i get instructions ill take a look today.  has the inline displayname i18n landed yet?
<ogra_> mandel, one image later http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/6.changes "ubuntu-touch from 1.126 to 1.127" ... "New Packages: qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-download-manager0.1"
<mandel> ogra_, beautiful! :)
<dpm> cwayne, it's been split in two branches: one landed in click scope trunk recently (but not yet in the images) and should already display the translations of .desktop files for the preinstalled click apps in the offline case - the other one is pending review and should display the translations from all app's .desktop files by querying the store when online
<cwayne> dpm, but those are click specific, im just wondering about the scopes displayname set in the scope's  .ini
<dpm> cwayne, ah, ok. So the scopes i18n branch(es) landed in trunk afaik, and should be in the images soon. For scopes, the next bit missing is now sending the user's locale to the scopes server for remote scopes. I was away for 2 days last week and I'm still catching up on e-mail, but IIRC mhr3 is already working on it. I'll follow up with him when he's online
<dpm> give me a sec to point you to the branches
<dpm_> cwayne, these are the merged branches that add i18n support to the preinstalled (local) scopes -> https://code.launchpad.net/~mhr3/unity-scope-mediascanner/i18n-enablement/+merge/217389
<dpm_> https://code.launchpad.net/~mhr3/unity-scope-scopes/i18n-enablement/+merge/217642
<cwayne> dpm, cool, thanks.
<cwayne> dpm, i thought the .ini files were going to be translated inline?
<dpm> cwayne, IIRC from last time I looked, that's what those branches did by using intltool-merge. But in any case, whether translations are merged back to the .ini file inline or are put into .mo files is just an implementation detail, the important thing is that the translations are loaded, regardless of how
<mihir> popey: ping
<ogra_> the Uk is off today ...
<mihir> popey: whenever you get time , could you just test ,and top approve this MR  , https://code.launchpad.net/~mihirsoni/ubuntu-calendar-app/limitFunctionality/+merge/211536
<mihir> popey: after considering Victor's comment
<mihir> dpm: ping
<bact> ogra_: may bank holiday
<ogra_> right
<dpm> hi mihir, sure, but could you add some more information in the MP's description on what this branch is bringing and what I should be looking for when testing it?
<mihir> dpm: it is same, event bubble where you have propsed the design.
<mihir> dpm: i will update descripition as well.
<dpm> mihir, thanks, let me know when you've done it and I'll take a look. Also, looking at the MP, have you had the chance to address Victor's comment: "Setting an event to expire after a certain date goes on indefinitely." ?
<mihir> dpm: you're refering to other MR.
<mihir> dpm: https://code.launchpad.net/~mihirsoni/ubuntu-calendar-app/1308001/+merge/217683
<dpm> mihir, no, I'm referring to the last comment of the link to the MP you've just asked me to test: https://code.launchpad.net/~mihirsoni/ubuntu-calendar-app/limitFunctionality/+merge/211536
<mihir> dpm: yeah i have looked at it, but on machine it works without any issues.
<mihir> and popey tested that MR and worked for him as well.
<dpm> mihir, in that case, could you add that as a comment, so that Victor knows?
<mihir> dpm: sure I'll do it.
<dpm> cool, thanks!
<mihir> dpm: the other one is almost done  !!
<dpm> mihir, which one?
<mihir> dpm: https://code.launchpad.net/~mihirsoni/ubuntu-calendar-app/1308001/+merge/217683
<om26er> Hi! How do I update from image 303 of trusty to utopic 11 ?
<om26er> do I need to flash clean or is there a way to upgrade ?
<Elleo> mandel: cool, ken's been making some last changes to the content-hub/udm integration branch to add internationalisation to the download snap decisions, I'm away today, but I expect we'll be able to stat landing stuff within the next day or two :)
<mandel> Elleo, superb (I forgot you guys have a bank holiday in the uk, correct?)
<mandel> Elleo, I'll keep track of things but looks that everything is good from my side AFAIK
<Elleo> mandel: yep
<Elleo> great
<didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, from what I heard from bzoltan1, you are going to get bug #1316057 fixed today?
<ubot5> bug 1316057 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu) "webbrowser-app AP failures after UITK upgrade" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316057
<ubottu> bug 1316057 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu) "webbrowser-app AP failures after UITK upgrade" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316057
<oSoMoN> didrocks, Iâll push a workaround for it, the actual bug needs to be fixed in the UITK or in Qt itself (not sure)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: ok, keep us posted so that we can deliver it asap
<didrocks> thanks
<bzoltan1> oSoMoN: didrocks: the actual bug need to be fixed on the OSK plugin or in the QT input module ... the UITK has little to do with this issue. The cursor is blinking in the textfield and it tries to pop up the OSK... and it does not show up.
<oSoMoN> didrocks, well on a related note there is landing request 17 that blocks any other landings for webbrowser-app, do you know what needs to happen for the packages to be promoted from -proposed to -updates?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: bzoltan1: do you mind updating the bug report with the correct informations?
<bzoltan1> didrocks: sure
<didrocks> Mirv: can you track the webbrowser-app one? ^
<Mirv> didrocks: sure will
<didrocks> mihir: oSoMoN: if it's a SRU, we can m&c and deliver the fix to utopic
<oSoMoN> didrocks, yes, itâs a SRU
<didrocks> oSoMoN: being in proposed, that's fine, you can m&c + ignore version destination check
<oSoMoN> ok
<bzoltan1> didrocks: oSoMoN:  the strange things is that I have seen this issue during the Silo verification... unity8, messaging-app and the browser has test failures because of the OSK was not coming up. That is why we had a fix... that fixed unity8, messaging app and 21 of the broiwser failures.
<Mirv> oSoMoN: regardless you'll want to verify https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1302780 though as having been fixed so that the update can proceed to -updates (in 4 days from now)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1302780 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu Trusty) "[webapp-container] Google Apps For Business support when using an external SSO provider" [High,Fix committed]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1302780 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu Trusty) "[webapp-container] Google Apps For Business support when using an external SSO provider" [High,Fix committed]
<Mirv> so many bots
<oSoMoN> Iâll leave that to dbarth, Iâll only do the m&c myself
<dbarth> oSoMoN: on it
<Mirv> oSoMoN: abreu's landing-003 would still need to land before a silo can be assigned for your webbrowser-app landing
<oSoMoN> Mirv, dbarth: letâs put it on hold until after the fix lands, if thatâs ok (does that mean the silo need to be unassigned?)
<Mirv> oSoMoN: however you wish. either the silo can be free:d or just a note added that it will require a rebuild after [another-silo] has landed
<oSoMoN> Mirv, cool, letâs go for the latter, as landing this fix for the AP tests should be quick and painless
<Mirv> ok
<Mirv> I added a note
<Mirv> oSoMoN: so do you want a silo for your "Cleaning up backlog", or will you add another line for the AP fix alone?
<oSoMoN> Mirv, Iâll add another line for the AP fix alone
<Mirv> ok, thanks
<dbarth> oSoMoN: do i need to disable any request, or are you now free to proceed with yours?
<oSoMoN> dbarth, weâll put one on hold (line 15), but IÂ donât think it requires any active intervention from you
<dbarth> ok fine
<cwayne> did the updated screenshot bits ever get merged to phablet-tools?
<ogra_> cwayne, which ones ?
<ogra_> phablet-screenshot should work with all promoted images atm
<cwayne> hm, i had issues on my flo, let me make sure i have latest
<ogra_> note it is broken against the -proposed ones
<ogra_> (on my list for today)
<cwayne> ah, maybe i was on -proposed
<cwayne> what broke it? new mir?
<ogra_> yeah, blame Mir
<ogra_> they broke the naming
<ogra_> easy to hack around by adding the frequency to the filename in phablet-screenshot (not so easy to make that work on both, old and new)
<mhall119> bzoltan: have you been able to cross-compile Trojita yet?
<ogratest> pretty please :)
<bzoltan> mhall119: Yes, I have
<mhall119> bzoltan: may I inquire as to how?
<ogratest> hmm, so swiching off all the suggestion, auto completion and capitalization stuff in the OSK makes it a lot faster
<ogratest> bfiller, pmcgowan, do we have a bug for that ?
<bfiller> yes
<bfiller> spellchecking is what slows it down, turn that off for now, we're working on a fix
 * ogratest is plaing with his freenode app ... i was wonseing first why my flo is so much slower
<ogratest> *wondering
<mhall119> better turn suggestions back on ;)
<pmcgowan> mhall119,nice
<ogratest> mhall119, haha
<mhall119> Kaleo: bzoltan: would we need design input for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1315884 or can it just be implemented?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1315884 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Allow Header style customization per Page" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1315884 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Allow Header style customization per Page" [Undecided,New]
<ogratest> to bad that the app lifecycle kills the connection after a while ... the app is only usable if you keep it in foreground
<mhall119> while writing my Android->Ubuntu converter, I've found that Android apps use the ActionBar and just change the background and font
<mhall119> and right now there's no reliable or easy way to do that withour SDK, especially ona per-page rather than per-app basis
<mhall119> ogratest: sounds like we need another *-hub
<ogratest> lol
<ogratest> freenode hub
<mhall119> but what about my oftc and moznet?
<mhall119> just re-package an irssi proxy as irc-hub
<ogratest> kiwi IRC lets you define a random server
<mhall119> kiki looks nicer than the freenode webchat too
<ogratest> but that deals with app lifecycle even worse
<mhall119> what does?
<mhall119> kiwi?
<bzoltan> mhall119:  I just open the project in QtCreator, select the armhf build target and build
<ogratest> the freenode one can still recover most of the time
<ogratest> kiwi disconnects ommediately when backgrounded
<bzoltan> mhall119: after setting the -DWITH_UBUNTU=on cmake parameter in the project tab
<ogratest> *immediately
<ogratest> in the freenode app the OSK stops working after a while though ...
<mhall119> bzoltan: I don't have an armhfh Kit
<ogratest> at least if i use multiple channels and swich a lot
<bzoltan> mhall119: what version of the qtc you are on?
<bzoltan> mhall119: we have fresh stuff out
<mhall119> 3.0.1 from Trusty's repo
<bzoltan> mhall119: archeology :)
<Kaleo> mhall119, sounds like this bug would require design input; and timp will be the best person to talk to (at the sprint, really busy until then)
<bzoltan> mhall119:  get the new one from the SDK PPA or from Utopic repo
<mhall119> bzoltan: pmcgowan: so is the plan to continue recommending the PPA for the SDK packages?
<mhall119> not backporting to Trusty
<ogratest> pfft, trusty ... old crap
<pmcgowan> mhall119, yes, I am not aware of a way to SRU it
<ogratest> use backports
<pmcgowan> mhall119, rickspencer3 just suggested we discuss at the sprint
<ogratest> thats what it is for
<mhall119> ok
<pmcgowan> ogratest, there is that
<ogratest> funny, with only one channel open o can not reproduce the OSK issue in the freenode app
<ogratest> (and typing is so much easier on flo compared to mako)
<bact> the nexus 7?
<ogratest> yep
<ogratest> bigger screen ... bigger kbd
<bact> I've found the typing on ubuntu touch on my nexus 4 quite challenging
<mhall119> it's a bit cramped in portrait, yeah
<bact> I've never had  much trouble with the stock keyboard on android though
<ogratest> it is fine, but a lot more comfortable on flo
<mterry> fginther, you poked me about unity8 unlock duration via email.  Do you mean you had problems using my new unlock-device script or using the current method?
<mhall119> my wife hates it, because when she tries to hit the space bar she accidentally activates the bottom-edge swipe
<ogratest> i tend to just type with only one thumb on mako
<kenvandine> mhall119, oh that kills me...
<kenvandine> happens all the time
<fginther> mterry, when the problem was discovered, it was with the method before your changes
<ogratest> just get a swipe robot ;)
<ogratest> scripts ... pfft
<mterry> fginther, well.  My new script does support changing how long we wait.  But also, with either method, there should be powerd locks surrounding the unlock that should prevent that
<mterry> ogratest, :)
<fginther> mterry, ok, so if the powerd lock is acquired, it should not re-lock?
<mterry> doanac, speaking of unlock scripts -- with the difficulties we're having with testing the new unlock script.  Maybe it's worth unbundling the two changes -- 1) land new script then 2) move the logic down into phablet-test-run
<mterry> fginther, unless you reboot yeah
<fginther> mterry, hmm... ok, we'll need to re-investigate the issue
<fginther> mterry, thanks
<oSoMoN> didrocks, landing request that fixes webbrowser-app AP tests (on line 30) is ready to publish, can you do that for me?
<Guest67964> Hi, question about touchpad settings not persisting
<sergiusens> mterry: +1 on the baby steps to success
<cwayne> mterry, heyo, has split-greeter landed yet?
<ogratest> lol
<Guest67964> really like lubuntu 14.04, but having a problem with touchpad settings on dell 620 laptop  any info available on this?
<mterry> cwayne, I am in the business of uncoupling that from any UI changes right now (no more cool boot animation) so it will land faster
<mhall119> bzoltan: I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/7398788/ when I try
<ogra_> Guest67964, this is the channel for the ubuntu phone OS ... try #ubuntu-x
<sergiusens> ogra_ ogratest what happens if you switch apps? Do you lose the connection?
<Guest67964> sorry, thanks
<ogra_> sergiusens, the freenode app copes quite well, but has OSK issues
<ogra_> the kiwi app doesnt cope at all
<ogra_> only works if you are fully foregrounded all the time
<ogra_> i went shopping on saturday and when i came back home freenode was still connected :)
<ogra_> (with the phone in my pocket ... it even survived WLAN -> 3G -> WLAN)
<sergiusens> ogra_ might be a case of one using websockets and the other something complicated to our advantage :-P
<sergiusens> like cookies
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> kiwi is surely more fancy ... with a lot more javascript stuff etc
<kenvandine> not great for battery lige
<kenvandine> life
<sergiusens> mandel: how are my reviews going? ;-)
<ogra_> well, there are certain apps weher i'd happily give up on battery life ... but tvoss wont allow me :P
<ogra_> like an ebook reader
<mandel> sergiusens, all of them will be done before the standup :)
<ogra_> having to tap the screen all few minutes it super annoying
<kenvandine> i have noticed a weird app lifecycle thing with pathwind
<sergiusens> ogra_: irc needs telepathy and indicator messages integration
<kenvandine> sometimes when it's suspended, it wakes up and starts playing the music
<ogra_> sergiusens, for native perhaps ...
<kenvandine> without taking focus
<ogra_> this is a website ...
<bzoltan> mhall119:  that is a decent log .. let me see
<kenvandine> the other night it started playing the background music while it was in my pocket :)
<mhall119> bzoltan: I've tried chown'ing them all and I got further, I think my manual attemps with click chroot set file ownership to root
<pmcgowan> kenvandine, is that on mako?
<kenvandine> pmcgowan, yes
<pmcgowan> yeah it doesnt really stay suspended
<kenvandine> i haven't been able to reliably reproduce it
<kenvandine> so known bug?
<pmcgowan> yes
<kenvandine> ok
<ogra_> must be your pocket :P
 * kenvandine doesn't worry about it then
<TyrfingMjolnir> Can I run Ubuntu Touch on Samsung Note 3?
<bzoltan> mhall119:  I would remove that chroot and recreate
<ogra_> !devices | TyrfingMjolnir
<ubot5> TyrfingMjolnir: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mhall119> ok, I'll report back once that's done, how long until your EOD?
<kenvandine> i found an interesting thing with the android build though, it never gets suspended on the kindle fire, but it does on stock android
<kenvandine> i guess the kindle does something different
<ogra_> TyrfingMjolnir, if it is not there, you can check xda forums ... some poeople didnt add their ports to the wiki
<kenvandine> makes me wonder if the kindle never really backgrounds apps
<ogra_> well, i have an ebook reader app on android where i can switch that on/off
<ogra_> and i really really prefer it that way compared to us
<kenvandine> sometimes, sure
<kenvandine> so maybe on the kindle they leave that up to the developer?
<ogra_> yeah, only for certain apps
<bzoltan> mhall119:  I have these qt packages installed http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7398822/
<ogra_> android does in general i think
<ogra_> rotattion, screen blanking etc
<kenvandine> other android devices does stop the music when it loses focus
<kenvandine> i only saw it on the kindle
<ogra_> i see it on android too, but only with apps wheer i enabled it in the settings explicitly
<mhall119> bzoltan: in your chroot?
<bzoltan> mhall119: yes
<kenvandine> it's pretty cool example of cross platform qml, pathwind only has a few lines of code different for ubuntu vs. android :)
<bzoltan> mhall119:  it is a trusty armhf click chroot
<kenvandine> just for orientation
<ogra_> cool
<TyrfingMjolnir> ogra_: This one? http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-3
<oSoMoN> didrocks, does it really take a couple of hours for packages to migrate to their destination?
<ogra_> TyrfingMjolnir, no idea ... i dont watch the ports that closely
<ogra_> ask in the thread
<oSoMoN> (didrocks: thanks for publishing for me, btw)
<kenvandine> although it was a real pain to juggle stuff so QtC could deploy it for android, use qrc, etc
<ogra_> oSoMoN, from where ?
<TyrfingMjolnir> What is Ubuntu Touch?
<kenvandine> it really is much simpler to build and deploy for ubuntu :)
<mhall119> TyrfingMjolnir: it's Ubuntu with Unity 8 running on a touch-enabled device like a smartphone or tablet
<TyrfingMjolnir> I assume itâs a full ubuntu distro with a UI optimized for touch screen?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: sil2100 did the publication :)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: well, at best, it's an hour
<ogra_> oSoMoN, if you mean from proposed to the archive it depends how many reverse deps are there for example
<mhall119> TyrfingMjolnir: that's it exactly, yes
<oSoMoN> ogra_, nevermind, the status message in the spreadsheet changed already
<ogra_> since the migration scripts check them all
<TyrfingMjolnir> Will it also hook up to a screen and work as a regular ubuntu install if hooked up to keyboard, mouse and screen?
<ogra_> TyrfingMjolnir, not yet, no
<ogra_> TyrfingMjolnir, that will happen once we have unity8 for the desktop too ... on the road to the 16.04 release
<mhall119> TyrfingMjolnir: eventually yes, right now Unity 8 doesn't have desktop features but those are going to start being built
<mhall119> ogra_ must be back on a normal keyboard to type that fast :)
<ogra_> mhall119, heh, yeah
<ogra_> i'm also not "ogratest" anymore ;)
<TyrfingMjolnir> I usually install XFCE for the desktop
 * mhall119 always considers ogra_ to be in beta
<ogra_> haha
<mhall119> TyrfingMjolnir: that won't work very well on a touch device
<TyrfingMjolnir> How?
<TyrfingMjolnir> If I hook up keyboard, mouse, and screen
<mhall119> Xfce isn't designed or built for touch
<mhall119> well then it might, but it would be useless on the device screen
<mhall119> TyrfingMjolnir: we don't plan on running sepearate shells for phone and desktop when you plug it in like that, it'll be the same shell (Unity 8) , same process, etc
<TyrfingMjolnir> unity8 could still run on the device screen, no?
<mhall119> TyrfingMjolnir: Unity 8 would run both, from the same instance of Unity 8
<TyrfingMjolnir> oki
<ogra_> once Mir supports two screen output on the phone, yes
<ogra_> but then you would have the prob that xfce wont run on Mir (yet)
<TyrfingMjolnir> I ordered Ubuntu EDGE back in the day
<mhall119> it won't be like Unity 8 on the phone screen, something else on the external screen
 * ogra_ too :) 
<TyrfingMjolnir> Anyone know if that will happen at all?
<ogra_> no, it wont
<mhall119> TyrfingMjolnir: if which will happen?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Or is 100% blown to stardust?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Ubuntu EDGE
<TyrfingMjolnir> It looked like such a nice device.
<ogra_> currently all our resources are focusing on getting a normal phone OS ready
<mhall119> oh, yeah, not likely no, hopefully some enterprising OEM will build something like it though
<TyrfingMjolnir> I ordered 2, but it got cancelled
<ogra_> at some point phones will be as powerful as the edge was planned ... by then the docking mode should be there too
<mhall119> there are already octo-core chips out, I think the big thing that Edge had going for it was RAM and internal storage
<mhall119> also the size/shape, which felt *so* nice in your hand
<TyrfingMjolnir> With 19nm technology, x86 processors should fit inside a handheld
<mhall119> hmmm....I don't think x86 has caught up with ARM yet in terms of mobile efficiency
<stgraber> cwayne: sorry for the delay, I finally got your extra aliases setup
<cwayne> stgraber, lovely, thanks
<ogra_> TyrfingMjolnir, sure, but they wont be like desktop CPUs ...
<TyrfingMjolnir> I find it weird that new TVs dont have a build in Amiga
<ogra_> the x86 phones today wont "just run" any desktop x86 OS
<TyrfingMjolnir> How can I make my own ubuntu Touch for Note3?
<ogra_> see the channel topic, there is a porting page
<mterry> sergiusens, doanac: I've moved just the unity8 unlock script change into a new branch: lp:~mterry/ubuntu-test-cases/use-unity8-unlock  -- I'd like to land this first.  Will proceed with testing it myself more locally, but would love a review/testing on your side
<doanac> mterry: ack. i'll try it out today in the lab
<TyrfingMjolnir> ogra_: how advanced is this?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Similar to compiling the linux kernel?
<ogra_> not trivial ... i wouldnt suggest that for someone unexperienced with building OSes
<ogra_> kernel building (and modifying) is one small part of it
<oSoMoN> Mirv, sil2100: can I haz a silo for line 22?
<sil2100> oSoMoN: let me lookie
<sil2100> oSoMoN: ok, will do once the previous silo finishes cleaning up
<oSoMoN> thanks!
<Saviq> daker, sorry for your slider branch took so long, but it's finally in, it's already in utopic, will be in the next image
<daker> Saviq: \o/
<daker> Thanks!
<oSoMoN> sil2100, any idea why the status of silo 5 still says "cleaning", while the job has finished more than 15mins ago?
<sil2100> hmmm
<sil2100> Oh, indeed :|
<sil2100> Seems to be some bug, I'll try to look into that after the meeting
<Saviq> ogra_, is there a TestPlan for ubuntu-touch-session?
<ogra_> Saviq, boot and see if the session comes up ?
<Saviq> ogra_, good enough! :D
<ogra_> :)
<Saviq> will try and land it today
<mhall119> bzoltan1: how do I run Trojita on my device?  Run button give me:
<mhall119> Starting /home/mhall/projects/Ubuntu/sdk/trojita/upstream/trojita-ubu...
<mhall119> Failed to start program. Path or permissions wrong?
<mhall119> /home/mhall/projects/Ubuntu/sdk/trojita/upstream/trojita-ubu exited with code -1
<mhall119> bzoltan1: pmcgowan: btw, did you see somebody wrote an Android 9-patch image to Qt .sci BorderImage converter?
<mhall119> https://github.com/labsin/conv9ptoSci
<pmcgowan> mhall119, somebody has huh
<cantstanya> is touch still using surfaceflinger for the display server or is it on Mir already?
<ogra_> Mir since forever :)
<cantstanya> It used to use surfaceflinger at one point, iirc
<cantstanya> like a year ago?
<ogra_> SF was only available as a fallback if you explicitly forced it
<ogra_> no
<cantstanya> oh
<ogra_> it always used Mir by default
<ogra_> on grouper Mir worked badly though and people tended to use SF
<ogra_> (now grouper isnt supported anymore)
<ogra_> on maguro Mir was slow as hell and people switched back to SF there too
<cantstanya> welp, my fault for believing phoronix
<cantstanya> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMwODg
<ogra_> (same thing, we dropped maguro from supported devices)
<Tassadar> for some time sf was default and you had to create /home/phablet/.display-mir though, right?
<ogra_> the very first images that only had demo crap and no apps etc were using SF
<cantstanya> lol phablet
<cantstanya> Tassadar: you're a phablet
<ogra_> Tassadar, onyl for like the first three months before we had an actual image
<Tassadar> that's the username
<ogra_> (MWC image in quantal)
<Tassadar> cantstanya: so you're a phablet too, if you use ubuntu touch)
<cantstanya> :.<
<ogra_> we're all phablets :)
<Tassadar> that article is from 22.2.2013, was MIR even announced back then?
<ogra_> shortly before ...
<ogra_> i think we announced in december or some such
<Tassadar> the article only mentions X and Wayland, which is kinda weird
<bzoltan1> mhall119: Yes, i have heard about it
<mhall119> Kaleo: who's the designer working on the new header?
<Kaleo> mhall119, I don't think there is one anymore
<Kaleo> mhall119, maybe ask Olga
<mhall119> oh, right, holiday in the UK
<mhall119> I'll ping her tomorrow then
<mhall119> got a new Click package of Trojita: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/trojita/
<mhall119> if anybody wants it
<mhall119> bzoltan1: is there a way to script the version used in the package from within qtcreator? I have a script that get's it from `git describe`
<bzoltan1> mhall119: not sure if I fully understand you
<beuno> bzoltan1, I think mhall119 wants a plugin that'll look into git and suggest the version for the package
<mhall119> bzoltan1: yes, that
<beuno> probably asking if it's possible, rather than adding a task for you  ;)
<bzoltan1> beuno: mhall119: I see... why not. Sounds cool
 * mhall119 would never *dream* of adding a task for bzoltan1 :)
<bzoltan1> beuno: mhall119: please file a bug
<bzoltan1> mhall119: that is actuall a cool idea
<beuno> oooh, I have enough launchpad karma
<beuno> I'm just translating mhall119 from cool to english
<beuno> (I majored in cool)
<bzoltan1> beuno:  I want to apply to the same univ... finally I could pick up chicks like other cool dudes did
<beuno> I think it's run by cats now
<mhall119> lol
<mterry> doanac, testing my unlock-device changes and I'm getting tired of hearing the music-app tests  :)
<bact>               the ever changing surface of the sea?
<doanac> mterry: i you don't like hearing about that dude's "love of free open source software.... yeah" :)
<mterry> doanac, I liked it the first time....
<doanac> mterry: sometimes i'll do runs overnight and that guy wakes me and my wife up while we are sleeping. it can turn very creepy!
<mterry> doanac, haha.  I bet your wife loves that
<doanac> fyi: i'm running your MP here: q-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/job/andy-smoke-daily-test/12/console
<mterry> doanac, cool.  I'm going strong locally so far.  Into sudoku
<doanac> yeah. things look good in our lab also
<pmcgowan> seb128, where do I find the system settings log?
<pmcgowan> seb128, nm
<ogra_> mhall119, bah, new trojita sorts oldest first ...
 * ogra_ looks at a mail from 2002 ... and over 34000 to scroll down to see something recent :(
<mhall119> ogra_: there's some kind of bug
<ogra_> well, one can see how it improves ...
<mhall119> ogra_: if you rm -r ~/.config/net.flaska.trojita/ it'll sort properly and pull the latest, but only once, after you start the app again it goes back to misbehaving
<mhall119> DanChapman: ^^ ogra_ is getting the same thing
<ogra_> it also shows 32152 mail in my inbox while evo only shows 32038 ...
<ogra_> it invents mails !
<DanChapman> ogra_: when you first populate the list view is it sorted correctly "newest first" and then each return to the mailbox it is  oldest first?
<ogra_> DanChapman, no, it was oldest first since i tried the new click package today, i havent wiped the config dir yet though
<DanChapman> mhall119: that's strange removing ~/.config will cause it to sort properly
 * ogra_ wipes his config dir ... lets see
<ogra_> DanChapman, still wrong order for me even after wiping the dir ...
<ogra_> but much nicer than before (apart from this)
<robotfuel> bfiller: when I use click-buddy --dir . --provision on the gallery app, it won't open in autopilot, I get apparmor denied, when I try just opening the galleryapp (without autopilot) a black screen is displayed, it never launches.
<bfiller> robotfuel: don't think gallery works with click buddy, sergiusens is that true?
<mterry> doanac, yup local smoke-tests passed
<bfiller> robotfuel: typically I build the click from jenkins, specifying the branch http://s-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/click/job/gallery-app-click-from-branch/build?delay=0sec
<bfiller> robotfuel: then I pkcon install-local it on the phone
<robotfuel> bfiller: ok I'll try that thanks
<doanac> mterry: yep. things seem good on my end also. i'll know pretty soon. I think we'll be able to get this merged pretty soon
<bfiller> robotfuel: then to run the autopilot I do this: phablet-click-test-setup --click com.ubuntu.gallery && phablet-config autopilot --dbus-probe enable && phablet-test-run -v gallery_app
<mterry> doanac, sweet, thanks for your help
<doanac> sorry its been such a pain
<sergiusens> bfiller: not gallery, I need to check again; but it didn't crosscompile for me last time
<mterry> doanac, no worries
<sergiusens> doanac: I'm making you a member to get phablet-tools stuff in faster
<bfiller> pmcgowan: any idea where to find the bug where creating a new google account switches away from the UI after pressing submit? can't seem to find it
<pmcgowan> bfiller, in online accounts?
<oSoMoN> robru, hey, can I haz a silo for the landing request on line 22 ?
<robru> oSoMoN, I dunno, webbrowser-app is already in silo 3...
<robru> oSoMoN, I guess dbarth is EOD; will you test & publish this silo today?
<robru> oSoMoN, I mean if I give you one, can it be fast?
<oSoMoN> robru, yeah, but we agreed with dbarth and Mirv to put that one on hold and have line 22 go first, line 15 has a comment that states it
<robru> oSoMoN, oh ok, I missed that
<oSoMoN> robru, it has to be fast, as I want to go to bed asap :)
<robru> oSoMoN, ok, building for you in silo 5: https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/landing-005-1-build/38/console
<oSoMoN> robru, thanks!
<robru> oSoMoN, you're welcome!
<mandel> elopio, hey, I can give you a hand with those tests
<oSoMoN> robru, landing request on line 22 tested and acked, would you mind publishing for me?
<robru> oSoMoN, of course!
<robru> oSoMoN, ok, done.
<oSoMoN> thanks!
<robru> oSoMoN, not sure if you're aware, but if you join #ubuntu-ci-choo-choo, we have a bot that can ping you when the package hits the release pocket and the silo is ready to merge.
<robru> you're welcome
<oSoMoN> robru, yeah, I know, Iâm there already
<robru> oSoMoN, oh heh, didn't see you in the list.
<robru> reading fail
<oSoMoN> m&c will have to wait until tomorrow, gotta get some sleep
<elopio> mandel: awesome. What tests are you talking about? RSS?
<SamTab101> Hello. I'm curious about the current or planned level of support in Touch for standard Android apps. I've heard conflicting things. ..
<daniel31> hello all. I want to buy an android phone which I can install ubuntu for android onto. (not ubuntu touch as I understand that isnt ready for primetime yet). has anyone been following u4a at all? I had heard from some sources it had been cancelled. I hope that isnt the case. I find it hard to get practical information on u4a without it being confused with canonical's marketting drive to the telcoms or information on the still upcoming ubuntu touch phone
<bact> iirc ubuntu for android required co-operation from manufacturers or somesuch and was put on hold
<daniel31> I was under the impression developer builds had been released..
<daniel31> I even read a comment somewhere saying it could be installed from the google app store or something :-S
<daniel31> I dont have an android phone atm so I'm not familiar with the current state of play..
<bact> daniel31: this article has a statement from canonical, http://www.androidauthority.com/ubuntu-for-android-limbo-374454/
<daniel31> thanks
<daniel31> here, from the comments - Q: Does anybody know how to get Ubuntu for Android on your phone? A: Safe way is installing multirom from Google Play
<bact> I use multirom, and its offers ubuntu touch
<bact> someone is probably confusing the products
<daniel31> I'm surprised there isnt a small but thriving community predicated around u4a atm actually. I guess everyone is waiting for ubuntu touch..
<daniel31> I'm very sorry (my last phone was an iphone but its dead now thanks to apple). what is multirom?
<bact> multirom uses a modified version of the twrp custom recovery to allow for multiple android/firefoxos/ubuntutouch installs
<bact> so you reboot and pick what you want to boot into
<daniel31> oh right. that's cool. but I guess I want to stay away from ubuntu touch until its ready for shipping. right now I need a new phone and I don't know if I should look for something I can install u4a onto (even tho as you say it is in limbo) or look for something that is future-proofed with a view to getting ubuntu touch on it.. what do you reckon?
<bact> a nexus
<daniel31> thats a good suggestion. shame about the price and lack of waterproofing tho.
<daniel31> I take it you have a nexus?
<bact> price?
<daniel31> they are quite expensive no?
<daniel31> oh maybe I am mistaken
<bact> the nexus models are usually half the price of similar flagships
<daniel31> oh that's good
<bact> $300 vs $600
<bact> google sells them close to cost
<daniel31> very good. actually totally affordable thats the amount I was looking to spend.
<cantstanya> Ubuntu for Android != Ubuntu Touch
<bact> cantstanya: we are aware
<daniel31> we are just discussing the differences :-)
<cantstanya> hrm
<cantstanya> Has the reverse been attempted by anyone?
<bact> daniel31: https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_5_black_32gb
<cantstanya> Dalvik on Ubuntu Touch?
<daniel31> thanks bact :-)
<bact> cantstanya: sailfish os licenses myriad's alien dalvik
<cantstanya> Or is that being highly discouraged due to a desire for more applications native to the platform?
<daniel31> ouch.. they're Â£339 from google in my country.. that's close to 600USD. Â£270 on ebay tho.
<cantstanya> bact: okay, but no efforts on ubuntu-touch?
<cantstanya> isn't alien dalvik proprietary?
<cantstanya> or am I mistaken
<bact> cantstanya: which is why I said licenses
<cantstanya> it could be dual licensed
<cantstanya> and sailfish just lazy
<bact> but it shows its possible, if canonical wanted to reproduce the functionality I'm sure it's within their capability, but like you said.. its a matter of whether they'd want to
<cantstanya> I didn't wanna assume
<cantstanya> mm
<cantstanya> okay
<cantstanya> so no known current efforts basically
<cantstanya> mmm
<bact> why don't you ask them tomorrow
<cantstanya> where?
<bact> here
<cantstanya> well I don't just mean canonical/the official Ubuntu-touch team, but other independent people testing out/working with Ubuntu-touch
<cantstanya> in fact, I'd expect more of the latter possibly toying with the idea
<cantstanya> maybe I should search around to see if anyone's been bored enough to attempt to get this going
<daniel31> Am I right in thinking a big problem with either u4a or ubuntu touch on current generation devices is not being able to have USB and video out over the same port?
<cantstanya> what about slimport
<bact> cantstanya: I think he means, while the port is supplying video it won't be able to act as an ordinary usb port
<daniel31> exactly
<bact> in one video there is a dev using the devices screen as a trackpad
<bact> and you could use bluetooth mice/keyboards
<cantstanya> isn't there a hub like thing for it
<daniel31> basicly I am trying to shop around to buy my way into the ubuntu edge experience because I dont want to have to upgrade my phone in 6 months when the first ubuntu touch phones start coming out..
<daniel31> bact: bluetooth, that's a good point..
<daniel31> I need to buy a new phone now, but I want it to be future-proofed with regards to ubuntu touch or (better with current generation) u4a
<daniel31> is this a hopeless endevour?
<bact> I think the nexus 5 is a safe bet
<daniel31> yeah, I think you might be right abotu that bact..
<daniel31> I just keep on getting distracted by silly things like this: http://www.asus.com/Tablets_Mobile/PadFone_Infinity/. Normally I would never consider it. but with ubuntu touch right around the corner..
<bact> ubuntu touch is hardly around the corner
<daniel31> you reckon? I thought the first shipping devices were a few months away..
<bact> people come in here all the time asking for desktop mode etas and they get back.. like ubuntu 16
<bact> because they want to use unity8 or something
<bact> I'm not sure
<daniel31> I see
<bact> I think it's far off
<daniel31> I guess one reason people think its closer than that is because shuttleworth was demoing desktop mode u4a (which many people including me would settle with for now) back in november..
<bact> but then edge never happened
<daniel31> le sigh
<daniel31> he did seem to imply the only thing holding it back was phone specs..
<daniel31> well thanks for your help bact, you've been most enlightening. I was hoping to get a cheapo chinese android but I guess that may not be an option just now.
<bact> ugh
<bact> definitely don't do that
<bact> those devices with the mediatek chips never get updated versions of android
<daniel31> yeah and at the very least if I cant go ubuntu on it I would want cyanogen..
<bact> I mean, go for a oppo device for sure
<bact> I think even meizu is partnering with canonical
<daniel31> the problem with oppo is their latest model is just too damn big. I'm not aware they do smaller ones..?
<bact> I believe their parent company owns a sort of oppo spinoff which just launched a 'one plus one' phone
<bact> that might be smaller
<daniel31> haha yeah you're right. I entered into oneplus' competition last week (you cant purchase them at retail yet). something about smashing your current phone in interesting ways. I lawfully purchased an iphone on ebay several years ago and have been a loyal and faithful apple user since then. then out of the blue apple decided to remotely lock the phone. I call that vandlism personally. there are many ways I would smash it right now. unfortunately I dont t
<bact> I found that competition quite disgusting actually
<daniel31> oh
<bact> it's so dangerous to tell consumers to actualy crush their phones
<bact> the batteries could explode
<daniel31> yes, there is that aspect true..
<bact> plus, so wasteful
<daniel31> yes, that too
<bact> iic I think they backtracked on the smashing part
<bact> *iirc
<daniel31> heh
<bact> they want you to donate them to medic mobile instead
<daniel31> I see. Well I have a few mobiles lying around I can donate to them which would be more use than the old iphone thats for sure..
<bact> I think its likely we'll see a meizu ubuntu touch phone soon
<daniel31> do u know how soon?
<bact> they were demoing it in february
<bact> http://www.cnet.com/uk/products/meizu-mx3-ubuntu-edition/
<daniel31> thanks
<daniel31> and you dont reckon it'll have desktop mode when its shipping?
<bact> who knows
<daniel31> heh
<daniel31> well I still am not much closer to deciding because for Â£150 I can get a high-specced rugged android but with not much chance I guess of cyanogenmod and even less chance of u4a/ubuntu touch :-S
<bact> which phone is that?
<daniel31> like 100 of them: http://www.chinavasion.com/search?q=rugged
<daniel31> to be honest atm I am really undecided between that, waiting a bit as you say for the first ubuntu touches, or getting a nexus.. really could go either way..
<bact> :/
<bact> All I can say is.. don't ever ever ever buy a mediatek
<daniel31> thanks I'll keep that in mind lol
<bact> and those are mediateks
<daniel31> are they? ah.
<daniel31> all?
<bact> you could probably get a second half nexus 4 for under Â£150
<bact> the first one I looked at didn't list the cpu but the Â£150 one listed MTK6577 which is a mediatek soc
<bact> s/half/hand
<daniel31> price isnt nessesarily an issue. I'm all about the bargain, but I am also happy to plunk down for a nexus 5 if I'll be looking at hopefully running desktop mode ubuntu off of it.. like an investment in my next desktop lol
<daniel31> lol I figured
<bact> well, sure it may be cheap now, but 6 months down the line you'll maybe be wanting the next shiny version of android
<bact> the nexus 5 is high spec'd enough to last you a long while
<daniel31> makes sense, yeah. if I dont break it before then. this is one problem with shuttleworth's convergent vision :-P
#ubuntu-touch 2014-05-06
<daniel31> (for clumsy people like me anyway ;-) )
<bact> the thing about android, and what I really dislike is that new version of software heavily depend on the soc manufacturers releasing newer binary blobs
<daniel31> right, I see
<bact> so soc's like qualcomm, they do for a while, but obviously not forever
<daniel31> yeah and good luck getting that from unknown chinese manufacturers right.. heh..
<bact> yeah
<bact> mediatek have a sour history on that front
<daniel31> i'll certainly follw your advice in staying away from them, whatever I decide..
<bact> I think the moto g is nicely priced device
<bact> but it doesn't have a chance of getting ubuntu touch
<daniel31> yeah I hear you
<daniel31> you know, I still cant help thinking it is apity u4a never developed an open community around it. I reckon u4a would have the chance to be compatible with more current generation handsets than ubuntu touch will be when its relased.. :-\
<daniel31> I mean, I could be wrong about that obviously..
<bact> mmm
<daniel31> kind of like how cyanogen start off..
<bact> maybe just shuttleworth thought it would be more efficient to allocate all the resources to touch
<daniel31> yeah, its totally understandable. I'm not ruing canonical not backing it, its just apity the community didnt express more of an interest. but I guess the community is all in the waiting-for-ubuntu-touch-mode just now.
<daniel31> I mean youre totally right that canonical should be devoting resources to touch just now
<daniel31> instead of u4a
<daniel31> well I think I must go tto sleep now. thanks fo rthe stimulating conversation, bact.
<daniel31> talk to u later
<Steve[cloud]> tis sadz that the N10 is no longer supported
<dobey> Steve[cloud]: what? nexust 10 is supported still.
<Zeh_Gordinho> Hi everyone ...
<Zeh_Gordinho> I'm thinking in start a ubuntu phone ... with my LG e425f or L3II is the same ...
<Zeh_Gordinho> iss there anyone here that already tried
<Zeh_Gordinho> ?
<Zeh_Gordinho> is there anyone online here ?
<Zeh_Gordinho> Is there anyone using Ubuntu Touch on LG L series phone ?
<dholbach> good morning
<TyrfingMjolnir> What will it take to make debian-touch?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Is Ubuntu Touch its own separate thing?
<TyrfingMjolnir> Or does it relate to android?
<RAOF> TyrfingMjolnir: debian-touch? You could do that yourself, if you really wanted :)
<nhaines> TyrfingMjolnir: I suspect to make debian touch you'd have to do a *lot* of porting things to Debian.  I wonder what the use would be?
<mpt> cyphermox, MacSlow: Does bug 1315419 really belong to indicator-network, or does it belong to notify-osd?
<ubot5> bug 1315419 in Network Menu "Timeout when trying to enter a long passphrase" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315419
<ubottu> bug 1315419 in Network Menu "Timeout when trying to enter a long passphrase" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315419
<MacSlow> mpt, that would still be notifictions... there's a bug/feature-requrest in the pipe to make timeouts configurable
<MacSlow> mpt, certainly not a bug for network menu
<MacSlow> mpt, but rather unity8's notifications
<MacSlow> mpt, the real fix is to move all dialog-like abuses out of notifications, but that'll take some time
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy No Homework Day - my boys will be thrilled!  :-D
<mpt> thanks MacSlow, I moved it to unity8
<MacSlow> mpt, ok
<mpt> MacSlow, and does bug 1315734 belong to notify-osd or to friends?
<ubot5> bug 1315734 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "There are no sound notifications, twitter and facebook" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315734
<ubottu> bug 1315734 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "There are no sound notifications, twitter and facebook" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1315734
<MacSlow> mpt, notify-osd never had sound support, so this is probably an issue with "friends"
<mpt> Thatâs what I thought, thanks
<MacSlow> mpt, btw... I'm currently adding sound-support to unity8's notifications
<mpt> Containers are blamed for their contents
<MacSlow> mpt, I've a thick skin :)
<TyrfingMjolnir> ""
<TyrfingMjolnir> No more smart quotes Yey!
<davmor2> Morning all
<MacSlow> hi davmor2
<dpm> is it possible to upgrade a phone that's got trusty installed to utopic via System Settings, or does it need to be reflashed? I'm guessing the latter, but asking just in case :)
<ogra_> dpm, it should automaticallyoffer you the upgrade if you properly used the devel or devel-proposed channels
<ogra_> if you didnt: adb shell system-image-cli --channel devel -b 0 -v
<ogra_> that will switch channels for you
<ogra_> (and upgrade you at the same time)
<dpm> ah, nice, thanks ogra_, I'll get them to test that!
<ogra_> should theoretically also woth from the terminal app (with sudo indeed) if you dont have a second machine for adb
<ogra_> *work
<kaisoz_> hi
<bact> ogra_: does m.here.com work well in ubuntu touch?
<bact> I just remembered it existed
<ogra_> bact, it should ... getting a GPS fix means i would have to sit outdoors for 20min to actually test it though
<bact> but is it smooth?
<ogra_> as smooth as it is on android
<bact> cool
<facundobatista> hello!
<facundobatista> question: I'm using the ubuntu-emulator... put the phone in "spanish", then tried to get into the dash, and it stays blank (after 10')
<facundobatista> I'm seeing, in the terminal where I started it, an error like .../GLESv2Imp.cpp:glReadPixels:1610 error 0x500
 * facundobatista restarts the emulator
<oSoMoN_> Mirv, hey, can I get a silo for my latest landing request? I talked to dbarth and itâs ok to put line 15 on hold again (there is a pending issue that needs resolving before itâs ready to merge anyway), perhaps we can reuse silo 3 ?
<Mirv> oSoMoN_: yes, I just discussed it on #ubuntu-ci-eng with him
<oSoMoN_> ah, I should probably join that channel too
<facundobatista> question: how can I make the emulator (that is currently in 14.04 r262) to upgrade to 14.10 #9 ? thanks!!
<pmcgowan> davmor2, popey did you happen to see my inquiry on the updates bug when you have system and apps available
<davmor2> pmcgowan: I've not had apps and updates available at the same time so I don't know
<davmor2> pmcgowan: I've not seen it at least
<pmcgowan> davmor2, ok, I see it all the time, and I unclear why folks are not squawking about it
<davmor2> pmcgowan: only time updater has played up for me has been when I hit the routing issue.
<pmcgowan> davmor2, its easy to reproduce by going back a revision or two when core apps have been updated
<Spektr> is this a dev irc?
<popey> pmcgowan: no, what?
<pmcgowan> popey, let me get the bug #
<pmcgowan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1309015
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1309015 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Issues on updates page when apps and system updates both available" [High,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1309015 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Issues on updates page when apps and system updates both available" [High,In progress]
<popey> pmcgowan: i have seen the updates page clear sometimes, ogra_ has seen that too, not seen it crash
<pmcgowan> popey, yes I see the clearing much more often, crash not anymore
<pmcgowan> its a race with the app results, when they come back it seems to mess up the qml
<pmcgowan> but it effectively prevents updating unless you remove your U1 account
<popey> oof
<seb128> gatox said he would work on that
<seb128> not sure what's the status though
<pmcgowan> seb128, ok good, I was concerned since its been there for some time in spite of being so easy to reproduce
<seb128> pmcgowan, you are the only one who seem to run into it/report it for some reason
<gatox> seb128, pmcgowan yes, i'm working in several system-settings related issues, right now i'm finishing a branch with a couple of fixes
<seb128> well, I mean we didn't get much pings/reports about the issue
<seb128> not sure if that's because most people just update the system images and regularly and don't end up in situations were click&system are outdated
 * gatox is building on the phone to test everything
<seb128> gatox, great, thanks for the work on those issues!
<pmcgowan> seb128, yep understood
<pmcgowan> gatox, great
<gatox> pmcgowan, right now i'm testing everything with real image and click updates
<pmcgowan> gatox, awesome, if you need a tester let me know
<gatox> pmcgowan, ack, thanks
<shine911> hello all
<shine911>   i want make ubuntu touch for codina, now i have system.img what can i do next to create zip file?
<ogra_> shine911, we dont use zip files anymore ... flash recovery and kernel imgs from your build and then follow the manual install instructions from the install wikipage
<shine911> how? where you can tell me? please... thank so much, i see i9100 also use zip file and flash via cwm...
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Manual_Download_.26_Installation
<shine911> ok thanks!
<shine911> hmm... my device not have fastboot
<ogra_> well, flash recovery and boot as you would normally do
<ogra_> then boot into recovery
<ogra_> all the further stuff happens via recovery anyway
<ogra_> (you said samsung, so i assume you can use heimdal or some such)
<shine911> maybe odin? right?...
<ogra_> or that, right
<ogra_> whatever you neeed to use to flash :)
<shine911> ok, i will try, hope it boot....
<shine911> thank a lot
<gatox> seb128, when you have the time: https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-system-settings/duplicate-and-credentials/+merge/218414
<seb128> gatox, looking
<ogra_> bzoltan1, looking at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/trunk/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/AbstractButton.qml#L85 ... are devs not supposed to be able to set/unset their own haptics freedback in apps ? that seems a little heavy to hardcode
<bzoltan1> ogra_: I would say, that devs are better leave the haptics alone... at least for now. The HapticsEffect should be and maybe will be part of the component styles
<ogra_> bzoltan1, so i cant have buttons in apps that dont do any haptic effect ?
<kalikiana_> ogra_: can you give an example of where you want a button with no feedback?
<ogra_> kalikiana_, i have my own little ebook reader app (with white font on black bg etc) to read in bed ... while i now added gestures to flip pages i initially used back forward buttons ... but my GF complained about the noise all the time
<ogra_> kalikiana_, i can imagine that there are many usecases where a dev wants to switch it off for in-app buttons
<kalikiana_> ogra_: presumably the noise would be an issue with any button at all, not just that app
<kalikiana_> right?
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> but i wouldnt use other buttons while reading or using that specific app
<ogra_> i agree there should be haptics for all system elements
<ogra_> but i thinnk it should be configurable for in-app elements
<zsombi> ogra_ well, then that needs to be disabled in the whole system then
<kalikiana_> thing is, is it really in-app, if you completely want to avoid the noise coming from vibrations
<zsombi> ogra_ haptics is an accessibility element, you cannot really disable in one app...
<ogra_> zsombi, AbstarctButtonHaptic vs AbstractButton ;)
<kalikiana_> ogra_: that makes no sense
<zsombi> orga_ :) yeah, make a haptic version of each component in the toolkit :D
<ogra_> kalikiana_, well, i think it makes no sense to force it on the dev ... we have configurable haptics effects but i cant make any use of that due to the hardcoding
<kalikiana_> ogra_: so tell me, is it "the dev" or the phone as a whole device with all apps?
<kalikiana_> I don't see why the ebook reader is special
<ogra_> on, the reader was just an example
<ogra_> i think it should generally be configurable for devs
<kalikiana_> if you send tons of texts your better half would be just as annoyed I assume
<kalikiana_> as long as it makes that noise
<zsombi> ogra_ as said, haptics belongs to the accessibility group, not really an in-app opt-out story
<ogra_> well, ignore the noise :) i just dont like that it is hardcoded :)
<t1mp> we can add property bool haptics: true to components
<kalikiana_> which willâ¦ do what?
<ogra_> t1mp, that would be perfect
<kalikiana_> breakAccessibility: true
<t1mp> kalikiana_: you can set it to false to switch off the haptics
<ogra_> kalikiana_, allow me as a dev to disable haptics in my app elements
<ogra_> or even the whole app
<kalikiana_> ogra_: I still don't see the use case
<ogra_> alternatively just make the settings configurable ... (intensity, duration fadetime etc)
<t1mp> kalikiana_: camera-app.. you don't want your phone to be vibrating every time you are taking a photo
<ogra_> so you could set it all to 0
<ogra_> heh, or vibrate during taking a video
<t1mp> ogra_: you don't keep pressing while making a video. but in a photo (especially with long shutter time) you should keep your device still
<ogra_> how about http://pad.lv/1290201
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1290201 in dialer-app "haptic feedback / vibration audible during calls" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1290201 in dialer-app "haptic feedback / vibration audible during calls" [Undecided,New]
<ogra_> hmm, pad.lv is dead
<ogra_> bug 1290201
<kalikiana_> ogra_: I'm with you on that, if we're talking about "no vibration for typing" or "no vibration for pressing buttons" globally - in which case it won't be totally up to the whim of every app dev
<ogra_> kalikiana_, i just dont like that we hardcode ... if it is configurable on demand i'm fine
<ogra_> default should be with haptic ... but there should be ways to disable or  adjust imho
<kalikiana_> ogra_: it was originally like this: we had no feedback. we added feedback. nobody had time to do anything fancy
<kalikiana_> no evil intent behind it
<Spiko-bG> ey guys I have a question, prolly u are sick of these but I was wondering if you can point me any tablet that's supporting ubuntu touch on 100% (cellular module included) Nexus 7 does that?
<ogra_> kalikiana_, i know :)
<ogra_> kalikiana_, but i also guess that code needs to be touched before we go to market (in 2-3 months) ... since the current feedback is really not proper yet
<ogra_> thats why i bring it up now ... so we have time to get something proper in place
<ogra_> kalikiana_, take bug 1290201 as reference, i think thats even a better example than my own hacked together app
<ubottu> bug 1290201 in dialer-app "haptic feedback / vibration audible during calls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290201
<ubot5> bug 1290201 in dialer-app "haptic feedback / vibration audible during calls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290201
<kalikiana_> ogra_: hmm yeah. maybe it would make sense to lower intensity during calls.
<a700> Hi guys, short question while porting a device... To make the lxc container startup, i must convert the ueventd.rc to lxc android container rules?
<ogra_> kalikiana_, well, also during video capturing and photos ... you dont want haptics to vibrate the phone when you press the shutter ;)
<ogra_> or change video settings while recording
<kalikiana_> ogra_: but you may want them to click, ie. what Android calls "touch sounds"
<ogra_> a700, you need to turn them into udev rules so the devices get also created outside of the container
<ogra_> kalikiana_, not while taking a video
<ogra_> for the shutter when taking a photo
<kalikiana_> ogra_: actually it might be the same as the call case then, you don't want to disturb the audio input
<ogra_> but setting the ISO settings while taking a video should be silent for example ... i dont want phone sounds on my video and i dont want it to vibrate either which will cause bulr
<ogra_> *blur
<kalikiana_> maybe what we need here is for enabling the microphone to disable haptic feedback
<ogra_> once we have something that reflects "mic enabled" to the toolkit that could work, yes
<a700> ogra_, thanks like the supported device 70-flo.rules?
<ogra_> a700, thats for the 2013 netxus 7 ...
<kalikiana_> or even usensord itself - since you can cause vibrations regardless of the toolkit otherwise which we might want to avoid
<kalikiana_> but, not sure
<kalikiana_> might be there's still a corner case in- between
<ogra_> well, i think i would also want to be able to play with haptics settings if i was a game dev for example
<ogra_> where i would expect them to be adjustable to my needs
<kalikiana_> that's what I mean, you can use the QML API if you like, we won't artificially prevent you from that
<kalikiana_> but then you still don't want to disturb your video, right?
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> or m calls or the taking of photos
<kalikiana_> maybe sergiusens can give an opinion if that is feasible, lp lists him in the latest usensord changes
<ogra_> kalikiana_, in case you want to keep the hardcoding, we really need to review the settings for it i think ... (not sure how much you use the phone during the day, but the current setup is pretty awful)
 * ogra_ is always happe there are only two screws in the N4 case ... i fear it would have fallen apart by now if there were more ... 
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> s/happe/hoping/
<bact> fallen apart?
 * ogra_ glares at his fingers
<bact> most devices don't even use screws, just clips
<ogra_> bact, the haptic feedback is pretty heavy, long and violent atm ... just to have "something" ...
<t1mp> kalikiana_: are we currently using any system settings in uitk apps?
<ogra_> strong enough to loosens screws :)
<bact> Oh, I see, you were making a funny
<ogra_> *loosen
<awe_> Wellark, do you know the current status of SIM PIN Unlock in the UI?  I was testing yesterday and it wasn't in the network menu anymore, and try as I might, I couldn't find where it had migrated to in the UI?
<ogra_> bact, not really ... it needs to become better for final release ...
<kalikiana_> ogra_: it's not so much about hard-coding. but being smarter than arbitrary one/off per app
<kalikiana_> it should be defaults, if we did have settings for it
<kalikiana_> but it's "hard-coded" as there is nothing else
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> i just mean if we ship with the hard coded stuff it needs adjustment
<ogra_> (i wouldnt expect a perfect solution for the first going to market ... but a usable one for the default at least)
<kalikiana_> I definitely want a no-vibrations-nor-sounds mode before we ship
<kalikiana_> easily enough to switch when I enter/leave the place
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> that too ... but the current vibration defaults also need to be better ... compare teh haptics of an android phone button press to ours ...
<ogra_> ours feels to long and to strong ...
<ogra_> (not saying that android has it right, but it feeels a lot less like the phone will soon fall apart due to it :) )
<kalikiana_> heh. yeah, it's stronger than the Android phone I have here
<kalikiana_> though I find it more problematic that Android often fails to provide any feedback depending on cpu
<kalikiana_> not sure if we'll inherit that limitation somehow or if we can do better
<ogra_> hmm, where do we install AbstractButton.qml to ? i'm happy to play with it a bit to get saner values
<ogra_> well, thats usually a limitaion of the hardware ...
<ogra_> i.e. the nexus7 devices simply dont have a vibrator
<t1mp> ogra_: dpkg -L qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-plugin|grep AbstractButton
<ogra_> geez
<ogra_> t1mp, thanks ... 9 years ubuntu and thats still not on my blood ...
<kalikiana_> ogra_: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Components/
<ogra_> yeah
<t1mp> I always need to use it on device to test something quick, because I don't know where the files end up there
<ogra_> i'm so spoiled by locate working everywhere :)
<t1mp> well it is probably not that hard to remember, but dpkg -L is easier to remember
<robotfuel> bfiller: what else needs to be done to merge the gallery-app MP?
<robotfuel> bfiller: I replied to your email, tests are passing for both utopic on the phone and also the desktop.
<bfiller> robotfuel: in process of being merged
<robotfuel> bfiller: thanks :D
<bfiller> robotfuel: once that happens just need to upload new clicks to the store, sergiusens can you help with that today?
<bfiller> sergiusens: need new clicks for camera, notes and gallery uploaded (once latest gallery MR is merged)
<sergiusens> bfiller: yeah, just tell me when, and I will
<shine911> :( port for codina => Stuck at splash screen
<bact> when the two official ubuntu touch phones come out are the team at canonical going to build towards those instead of nexus's?
<ogra_> we will keep building for nexus as well as these phones
<ogra_> at least for a while
<bact> do you have a hardware partner for a tablet sized device?
<ogra_> not sure ...
 * ogra_ isnt so close to sales 
<daniel31> is it possible to install ubuntu for android (not ubuntu touch) on the google nexus series?
<daniel31> a develop preview for example
<ogra_> daniel31, nope
<daniel31> so there have been no developer previews released? I have seen some comments saying it was available but I guess they were getting it confused with ubuntu touch..?
<ogra_> ubuntu for android is suspended ... no work is going on with it and it will only be resumed if a partner shows up
<ogra_> it requires heavy changes to the android, so it can only be done with an actual manufacturer
<bact> ogra_: how difficulty would it be to build ubuntu touch for an x86 chipset?
<ogra_> UfA has never been released to the public
<daniel31> yes, I understand it has been suspendedâ¦ but we have all seen the canonical videos of it running on a nexus. I was hoping if anyone knew about whether the source code for it had been released to the community in any case..
<ogra_> bact, we have x86 rootfs images ... you just need to build the android HAL for it
<bact> hmmm
<ogra_> daniel31, it hasnt been releases
<ogra_> *released
<daniel31> pity :-)
<bact> hi daniel31, from last night
<daniel31> hi bact. sorry I'm here again :-P
<ogra_> daniel31, and afaik the source wouldnt help you if you would not also have the source to the binary drivers
<bact> I hate that
<bact> bloody binary blobs
<daniel31> I hear you
<bact> why is it okay for arm soc's do that?
<ogra_> (but i'm only guessing, dont quote me on that, i know there are  deep changes needed on teh android side)
<bact> *to do
<ogra_> bact, why is it not ?
<ogra_> they own the HW and they own the driver code
<ogra_> nobody can force them to open it
<bact> is this meizu x3 ubuntu edition going to be much of the same?
<ogra_> i agree it would be nice ... and social and all ... but there is no reason for them to do that beyond being friendly
<bact> binary blobs and all that
<ogra_> i think so
<ogra_> meizu is just a manuafacturer
<ogra_> they are not the creators of the chips they use
<ogra_> so they have to take what the supplier gives to them
<bact> so it's still a qualcomm chipset or whoever
<ogra_> indeed
<ogra_> if you want to produce phones where you at least get the investment back that you made top develop it you wont be able to build something open easily ... after all they have to pay the salaries of their employees too
<ogra_> the only entitiy i see that could apply some pressure on manufacturers would be google
<ogra_> to actually require them to open it
<Stskeeps> (and just look at the AOSP debacles that JBQ had, to see that even that doesn't work..)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> well, google *could* have done better if they wanted
<ogra_> they are in power here
<daniel31> it does seem to me that the smart investor would focus on high-quality (e.g. apple-like, they do make good hardware) hardware with open software. that way they benefit from community-supplied patches, modifications and security but have a loyal user base around the software. never mind all this 'value-added' crap of generic devices where the differentiator is which crappy software gets loaded with the device. I hope thats what we start to see with ubun
<ogra_> you cut off
<daniel31> *sorry I should say they build a loyal user base around the hardware
<ogra_> "I hope thats what we start to see with ubun"
<daniel31> Oh. I just said I hope thats what we start to see with ubuntu-touch based devices..
<ogra_> you will see such a thing if canonical ever gets as big as google :)
<daniel31> unlikely, unfortunately..
<ogra_> but until then i doubt there is any interest for chip manufacturers to open up all their drivers
<daniel31> I am sort of in the market for a new laptop as well you see and coming from the apple world as a loyal user for many years (but don't get me started on that) there is really not much in the way of hardware which is as high-quality as what they make. its a shame they are such a horrible company in general. please correct me if I am wrong of course..
<daniel31> laptop and computer-wise anyway, iphones are a different issue..
<daniel31> well, roll on ubuntu and ubuntu touch I say..!
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, any suggestions where to file a bug about disk space exhaution? specifically if the user copies logs of movies to the device
<doanac> mterry: good news. plars is merging your unlock change as we speak.
<doanac> hopefully we can iterate from there more easily now
<mterry> doanac, oh that is awesome!
<mterry> doanac, thanks
<plars> mterry: sorry for the delay, wanted to do it when no other jobs were running
<plars> just to be on the safe side
<dobey> daniel31: get a dell xps13 sputnik that comes pre-loaded with ubuntu
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, well, since the expected fix didnt work file it against android ... we attempted to fix it in the system-image-upgrader script in the recovery image
<ogra_> (the android package that is)
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, ok, will do. thanks
<john-mcaleely> pmcgowan, in an unrelated question, where do bugs against SD card support belong? (user side, UI stuff)
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, we cant really do anything with SD card support on nexus
<ogra_> there is no slot
<daniel31> thanks dobey :-)
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, but do we have some way to exercise it?
<ogra_> not really i think
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, hmm. I thought there were plans for support
<pmcgowan> john-mcaleely, phonedations team needs the phone with sd slot
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> we can work on that once we have an actual device with the hardware
<pmcgowan> I suspect its not a big issue
<ogra_> we could fake the world and would still not be able to make sure the fake reflects reality
<pmcgowan> ogra_,  did you work out the other out of disk problem
<ogra_> pmcgowan, yes, i was the one who "fixed" it :/
<pmcgowan> but why did john-mcaleely see it?
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, pmcgowan ok, fair enough.
<ogra_> pmcgowan, because the fix apparently does not work
<pmcgowan> lol
<pmcgowan> hence "fixed"
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, pmcgowan bug 1270248
<ubottu> bug 1270248 in logrotate (Ubuntu) "/var/log fills up disk space on phone" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270248
<ubot5> bug 1270248 in logrotate (Ubuntu) "/var/log fills up disk space on phone" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270248
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, thanks
<ogra_> the android task in there was actually for the system-image-upgrader change ...
<ogra_> https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_bootable_recovery.git;a=blob_plain;f=system-image-upgrader;hb=dbfe068decc0685b1222fa91e8def2bb8e58e42b
<ogra_> the tune2fs line near the bottom was supposed to fix it
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, ok, I'll document how it fails for me, and see if that helps
<ogra_> thanks
<ogra_> i assume we might need to be more strict than -m
<ogra_> probably -r instead
<ogra_> or additionally
 * john-mcaleely reading the bug
<ogra_> kalikiana_, t1mp, bzoltan https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/improve-haptics/+merge/218466 ... one for you
<ogra_> that gives more realistic defaults
<cwayne> t1mp, heya, i saw some headers MP's go into lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging -- is there a ppa for that anywhere, or should i just build it myself?
<cwayne> dpm, ping
<dpm> hey cwayne
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, yes -r looks like my case - will write up in the morning
<ogra_> thanks !
<cwayne> dpm, hey, did you log a bug for savilerow about the scopes translations?
<dpm> cwayne, I didn't yet. Let me do that in the next few mins
<t1mp> cwayne: I think there is no PPA, but there were talks about it some time ago, let me check
<cwayne> t1mp, thanks.  how often do we release uitk from staging btw?
<t1mp> cwayne: as often as possible. Should be at least weekly, but it happens that there are external issues that prevent us from doing a release every week
<cwayne> t1mp, ah, awesome
<t1mp> bzoltan: ^ we don't have a staging ppa right?
<didrocks> cwayne: mterry did the change if I'm correct, you can ask him to answer on the ML ;)
<didrocks> (re: overrides)
<cwayne> didrocks, yep, thanks. realized right after i sent that mail :)
<t1mp> cwayne: what we have in staging can put the actions, back button, tabs drawer in the header
<t1mp> cwayne: what else did you need?
<cwayne> t1mp, i *think* those are the main things we needed, well other than getting the core apps using the new headers
<t1mp> cwayne: if you use Actions to define the ToolbarButtons, all you need to do in apps is change MainView.useDeprecatedToolbar to false, and it should magically work :)
<cwayne> t1mp, awesome!
<t1mp> I will send an e-mail to the mailing lists when we have it in trunk and the image
<cwayne> t1mp, perfection, thank you for all the help on this :)
<t1mp> cwayne: np :) I'm quite sure the work is not done yet. Apps will need to be modified and when people start using the new header we will find new bugs
<cwayne> t1mp, of course, but this is the start that we needed :)
<ogra_> fginther, i think cjwatson should be involved in that meeting about "building images per landing" since he just implemented launchpad buildd support to roll images
<ogra_> i assume that is what we should use for that case
<ogra_> i know he also worked on PPA support fro this setup, but i'm not sure this is included yet
<ogra_> plars, ^^
<cjwatson> ogra_: It's still in progress, but I plan to have it rolled out by Malta
<ogra_> sounds perfect
<ogra_> i added you to the CC list of the mail i was referring to
<cjwatson> ogra_: At least some of the changes necessary to use a PPA are in place, but I haven't tested it and I suspect there are still a few bits missing
<cjwatson> The touch use case is absolutely one of the ones I've had in mind though
<ogra_> well, it still uses livecd-rootfs internally, no ? worst case we could add a switch there as interim solution
<fginther> ogra_, thanks
<cjwatson> I expect that making it use a PPA will involve a little work in livecd-rootfs, yes, but we can do it more elegantly than a hard switch
<fginther> cjwatson, I'm curious as to how click packages are incorporated
<cjwatson> The source archive, if any, is passed down through launchpad-buildd
<cjwatson> fginther: No different from how it's done today
<cjwatson> live-build/ubuntu-touch/hooks/60-install-click.chroot in livecd-rootfs
<cjwatson> (i.e. a fairly crude hack)
<fginther> as long as it's the correct crude hack
<ogra_> that might need extension so we can test with "PPA" click packages
<cjwatson> One thing I was thinking of was maybe stuffing it into the LiveFS metadata (which is an arbitrary dict in LP)
<ogra_> i.e. an additional staging area for clicks ...
<cjwatson> Like, say, a URL that provides the list of click packages to install
<ogra_> yeah
<cjwatson> Anyway, this is literally my sole focus right now, but the first priority is making sure I have a correct like-for-like replacement for the current system
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> well, francis didnt sound like he wants it today :)
<cwayne> oof, building uitk in an armhf chroot is not fast.
<pmcgowan> gatox, fyi https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1309015/comments/14
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1309015 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Issues on updates page when apps and system updates both available" [High,In progress]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1309015 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Issues on updates page when apps and system updates both available" [High,In progress]
<gatox> pmcgowan, yes.... that's how i'm reproducing that bug
<pmcgowan> gatox, I never thought to go the other way ;)
<pmcgowan> how is it different, anyway
<gatox> pmcgowan, i usually use updates button, so i wasn't able to reproduce it first... but then i figure it out
<pmcgowan> sorry  I didnt figure it out earlier
<pmcgowan> I expected it to use the same code
<gatox> pmcgowan, no idea.. i'm fixing some other issue (fixing some issues that touches those things and make everthing cleaner), and that one will be the next one... but i'm working on that widget right now
<pmcgowan> gatox, very good
<gatox> pmcgowan, maybe in the way that pushes the page into the stack or something
<gatox> pmcgowan, i proposed a couple of branches for system settings today
<pmcgowan> gatox, yeah so since updates button works, should be easy to fix it to do  the same
<gatox> pmcgowan, waiting for reviews
<pmcgowan> ok
<dpm> cwayne, https://bugs.launchpad.net/savilerow/+bug/1316713
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1316713 in The Savilerow project "Add i18n support to the unity-scope-tourism-shanghai-* scopes" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1316713 in The Savilerow project "Add i18n support to the unity-scope-tourism-shanghai-* scopes" [Undecided,New]
<cwayne> dpm, thanks
<mhall119> yay! r13 here I come
<mhall119> strange, the item showing the download name and progress disappears
<mhall119> jhodapp: is the new media-hub in r13?
<jhodapp> mhall119, yeah, it's been in since r7
<mhall119> well r13 is the first non-proposed image since r2
<mhall119> jhodapp: anything that plays audio through the Qt API should take advantage of that right? and keep playing when the screen is off or app is in the background?
<jhodapp> mhall119, correct, for audio only
 * mhall119 is going to try his podcast app
<mhall119> jhodapp: makes sense, playing video with the screen off isn't the best experience :)
<jhodapp> mhall119, excellent, I tested out a number of various apps in the store including 3 podcast apps
<mhall119> awesome
<jhodapp> mhall119, unless you like to image the video ;)
<jhodapp> imagine, err
<mhall119> jhodapp: sometimes it better that way
<jhodapp> hehe
<mhall119> ah ha! it works, brilliant!
<mhall119> does daker's Rad.io work too?
<dobey> is it possible to have passwords stored for webapps?
<mhall119> dobey: you can use the browser's storage, but that's not secure
<daker> mhall119: i tested it using the first utopic image
<dobey> is it possible to have passwords stored (securely) for webapps?
<dobey> :)
<mhall119> dobey: you can use OnlineAccounts if you have a provider for your webapp
<daker> mhall119: but the sound stops once it loses the focus
<mhall119> wait...I'm thinking html5 apps, nvm
<dobey> mhall119: but webapp-container doesn't magically fill the password form with data from online accounts does it?
<mhall119> daker: are you using something other than the Qt APIs? or are you continuously downloading new bits of audio
<mhall119> dobey: no
<daker> mhall119: gstreamer directly...
<daker> brb
<mhall119> daker: ah, that might be the issue, can you use the Qt APIs?
<dobey> so basically, online-accounts, qml+oxide, and lots of javascript, if i want to do it?
<mhall119> yeah, unless you want to draft a spec for the WebApps API to let is securely remember login info
<jhodapp> mhall119, should
<dobey> grooveshark stops playing audio when backgrounded on image #13 still
<dobey> so i guess oxide needs fixed?
<jhodapp> daker, you'll want to switch over to using the Audio component in QML
<jhodapp> dobey, Oxide doesn't take advantage of media-hub at all yet
<jhodapp> dobey, so backgrounding won't work for it
<dobey> right
<dobey> so i guess oxide needs fixed :)
<jhodapp> dobey, definitely
<ogra_> nah, we should just enhance media-hub with a browser
<mhall119> yay, I have working alarms again!
<jhodapp> ogra_, lol
<jhodapp> ogra_, the new emacs!
<daker> jhodapp: the QML audio component doesn't support GST_TAG_TITLE
<jhodapp> daker, what exactly do you want to be able to do then, can you describe the use case?
<daker> jhodapp: this https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rad.io-devs/rad.io/trunk/view/head:/plugin/player.cpp#L57
<daker> the NowPlaying title from the stream
<jhodapp> daker, ok, we could at least solve that by adding support to the platform-api
<daker> jhodapp: two things :
<daker> - i should be able to get the stream title
<daker> - i should be able to the NowPlaying title(aka GST_TAG_TITLE)
<daker> and i think this would be a benefit to all the upcoming stream/radio players
<jhodapp> daker, indeed...it looks like the QML layer just doesn't export this, seems to be there via the C++ Qt object: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qml-qtmultimedia-mediaplayer.html
<rsalveti> ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~rsalveti/project-rootstock-ng/adding_option_distro_series/+merge/218502
<jhodapp> daker, err, that is the qml object
<cwayne> t1mp, \o/ got new headers on my device here, looks awesome :D
<daker> jhodapp: ya i have tested that...
<jhodapp> daker, what'd you find?
<daker> jhodapp: the first time, i thought that i could find the NowPlaying track in metaData.title
<mhall119> cwayne: oh? what build?
<jhodapp> daker, but what'd you find?
<daker> jhodapp: what do you mean ?
<jhodapp> daker, did you get no data, the wrong data, etc?
<jhodapp> daker, looking for some more details :)
<daker> jhodapp: undefined :)
<daker> and i couldn't find any Onchange func...
<jhodapp> daker, any QML property inherently has an onChange function
<cwayne> mhall119, i grabbed some uitk debs, not in an image yet
<daker> jhodapp: ok i'll test it again now
<jhodapp> daker, alright cool, it may be that I have to add some code to qtubuntu-media, but hopefully not
<mhall119> cwayne: can I see a screenshot?
<mhall119> tease the internets
<cwayne> mhall119, trying now, but running into issues with phablet-screenshot
<mhall119> oh, right, mir changes broke it didn't they
<cwayne> yar
<mhall119> hmmm, I can't update apps on r13, can anybody else?
<mhall119> popey: ^^
<mhall119> they just stay at 0%
<mhall119> Calculator and Notes
<popey> they do update for me
<popey> but the % doesnt move
<popey> on #14 they do
<mhall119> oh, ok, so maybe I just need to wait
<mhall119> still, not big apps, they should be done by now
<popey> i believe it's a bug in u-d-m or u-s-s
<pmcgowan> mhall119, I have the same problem
<pmcgowan> I am running 14
<cwayne> mhall119, huh, even on a promoted image phablet-screenshot fails
<mhall119> cwayne: have you updated phablet-tools? maybe there's a fix there
<pmcgowan> mhall119, could it be on the server side I wonder
<mhall119> maybe, beuno ^^
<cwayne> mhall119, just tried, no update
<pmcgowan> cwayne, there was a fix made wrt adb and the screenshot tool
<pmcgowan> couple weeks ago maybe
<daker> jhodapp: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7406659/
<pmcgowan> cwayne, what happens
<cwayne> pmcgowan, im up-to-date
<daker> Cannot assign to non-existent property "onMetaDataChanged"
<cwayne> pmcgowan, remote object '/tmp/mir_screencast_1200x1920.rgba' does not exist
<pmcgowan> cwayne, same here, mir busted
<beuno> what what?
<pmcgowan> cwayne, you want to enter the bug?
<cwayne> pmcgowan, sure thing
<pmcgowan> beuno, mhall119 and I are not able to download app updates
<pmcgowan> download manager is timing out it seems
<mhall119> beuno: system-settings says Calculator 1.3.253 and Notes 1.4.262 are available, but download never starts, stays at 0%
<pmcgowan> I0506 16:22:22.248090  3959 base_daemon.cpp:154] Timeout reached, shutdown service.
<mhall119> popey said the progress bar is broken, but even letting it sit for 10 minutes results in nothing happening
<pmcgowan> bugs everywhere today
<mhall119> yay promotion!
<pmcgowan> mhall119, its not downloading for sure here
<mhall119> but alarms work and music plays when the screen is off, so still a net improvement
<pmcgowan> two steps forward, ...
<mhall119> yup
<beuno> so
<beuno> let me test
<pmcgowan> beuno, anyway I was pondering whther it could possibly be the server not responding
<pmcgowan> ok
<daker> anyone having this bug https://i.imgur.com/OZZrY3D.png ?
<beuno> pmcgowan, mhall119, server is downloading fine
<pmcgowan> daker, that is reported yes
<daker> pmcgowan: ok thanks
<pmcgowan> mhall119, I will file a bug fwiw
<pmcgowan> mhall119, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1316794
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1316794 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "App updates are available but do not download" [Undecided,New]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1316794 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "App updates are available but do not download" [Undecided,New]
<beuno> pmcgowan, mhall119, my bets are on an authentication issue
<beuno> or improper signing of the URLs
<pmcgowan> which urls? to the store
<beuno> yeah
<beuno> the download
<beuno> but without logs, I don't know
<beuno> I can manually download stuff, no problem
<pmcgowan> beuno, care to comment on the bug or also affects?
<t1mp> cwayne: awesome :) which app are you testing with?
<t1mp> mhall119: here is a screenshot of the new header with the flashback app https://www.dropbox.com/s/h23z0g29e4nxm8e/Screenshot%202014-05-01%2020.42.11.png
<ahayzen> t1mp, has the new back button in header landed?
<beuno> pmcgowan, done
<t1mp> ahayzen: I'm not sure. There is a lot of new header stuff in our staging, I'll check if the back button went to trunk already
<t1mp> ahayzen: yes, it is in our trunk :)
<t1mp> ahayzen: and it is all automatic, if you set your MainView useDeprecatedToolbar to false and you are using a PageStack the back button will appear (when there is something on the stack to pop)
<ahayzen> t1mp, ah cool thanks i'll have a play about see if i can get the music-app to use it :)
<t1mp> ahayzen: the actions from the toolbar are not in the header yet in trunk, but the code is in our staging already so it will be included in our next landing (this week hopefully)
<pmcgowan> cwayne, whats that screenshot bug? I think its just looking for the wrong filename
<ahayzen> t1mp, ah cool i'll hang fire then :)
<t1mp> ahayzen: or you bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging && cd staging && qmake && make && source export_modules_dir.sh && run your app :)
<ahayzen> :)
<ahayzen> t1mp, while ur here who do i talk to for design approval of https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fix-1315775/+merge/218206
<popey> pmcgowan: the filename has _60Hz added now
<popey> cwayne: ^
<pmcgowan> popey, right
<pmcgowan> so the script doesnt match now
<popey> which I dont *quite* understand for a static screenshot
<daker> popey: yes i had to do that too
<daker> i was told by ogra_ to add _60Hz to be able to take a screenshot again
<t1mp> ahayzen: I'm thinking..
<ahayzen> heh
<t1mp> ahayzen: maybe it is an obvious bug that we don't need UX design approval for?
<ahayzen> t1mp, idk do u think it is?
<pmcgowan> popey, I am guessing mirscreencast was updated to capture video
<ahayzen> t1mp, whether scrolling outside of the sheet should scroll the background page could be up for debate..but inside is definitely wrong
<t1mp> ahayzen: yes
<popey> pmcgowan: pass, i dont use it
<mhall119> t1mp: while you're taking requests, I filed a couple of header-related bugs
<t1mp> ahayzen: I thought when a popover is open nothing should happen to the background
<popey> well, it already did video
<t1mp> mhall119: I saw one, assigned it to me. I'll try to confirm it tomorrow
<ahayzen> t1mp, magic :)
<mhall119> t1mp: the other is wishlist, probably needs design input: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1315884
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1315884 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Allow Header style customization per Page" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1315884 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Allow Header style customization per Page" [Undecided,New]
<t1mp> ahayzen: you could ask johnlea whether no events at all should pass trough for all popups
<ahayzen> t1mp, cool he is in london offices right?
<t1mp> ahayzen: yes
<t1mp> mhall119: I would definitely get design feedback on that one first before implementing that
<mhall119> t1mp: the new headers look *nice*
<t1mp> mhall119: do you have a good use case for having a different header color/image/textcolor per page?
<ahayzen> t1mp, thanks
<mhall119> t1mp: Android apps do it
<mhall119> t1mp: I'm making an Android->Ubuntu converter, trying to re-create as much of the GUI as I can from Android's layout and theme files
<t1mp> mhall119: yes I think the new header looks much cleaner than the previous one. And in the screenshot it is also nik90s app that makes it look good :)
<mhall119> also, pages with different background colors might want different matching or complimentary header colors
<t1mp> mhall119: "android has it" is not convincing enough for me ;)
<mhall119> t1mp: my working example is Telegram, which has a blue header on most pages, but a black one on it's gallery page, since the gallery page has a black background
<t1mp> mhall119: but it is more a decision for design to make than for me :)
<t1mp> mhall119: you could set the backgroundColor of the MainView depending on which page is active
<t1mp> although that seems like a workaround
<taiebot> Hello talking about design. I have been using UT for 6 month and i think this one needs to be considered by the design team https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ux/+bug/1295993
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1295993 in Ubuntu UX "[ux]Ubuntu touch colour theme is too dark making it unusable in bright sunlight condition" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295993 in Ubuntu UX "[ux]Ubuntu touch colour theme is too dark making it unusable in bright sunlight condition" [Undecided,New]
<t1mp> mhall119: if you change background colors, the whole theme would have to change (text color for example)
<pmcgowan> popey, cwayne https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1316806
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1316806 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "phablet-screenshot looking for the wrong filename" [High,New]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1316806 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "phablet-screenshot looking for the wrong filename" [High,New]
<mhall119> t1mp: text color was on the list
<t1mp> mhall119: not only the header text, all text
<mhall119> not if only the header text is changing
<mhall119> header color
<t1mp> mhall119: the header is supposed to look transparent, so it has the same background color as the page
<mhall119> is it? I never got that impression
<mhall119> anyway, at least one of our apps (Karma Machine) has forcibly set a background color on the Header only through some QML hacks
<mhall119> I've seen some design mockups on G+ that did similar things
<mhall119> so having a sanctioned way of doing it would be nice
<ahayzen> mhall119, music-app has the header colour set
<mhall119> beuno: pmcgowan: I removed and re-added my U1 account and still can't download updates, so it's not stale credentials
<mhall119> t1mp: ^^ there's another example
<mhall119> ahayzen: and music-app is based on the Canonical design team's design, right?
<t1mp> mhall119: sure. If you can get feedback from a designer on that bug that would be great
<ahayzen> mhall119, well
<mhall119> t1mp: any designer in particular?
<ahayzen> mhall119, think this was outside of the original designs as they have morphed quite a bit
<t1mp> mhall119: I don't know, best ask john who to ask
<pmcgowan> mhall119, new apps install as well
<t1mp> taiebot: I haven't used in the sun much yet, but your bug makes sense. Most designers are in London and at this time I guess they are not online anymore to ask them to check the bug now
<mhall119> t1mp: ok, I'll try and catch him tomorrow
<taiebot> t1mp: thanks if you can confirm it or pass it on to the correct person that would be great.
<beuno> mhall119, download work from trust 303
<beuno> trusty
<beuno> so it's something in image 13
<ahayzen> t1mp, the new tab header stuff is awesome, nice work :)
<dobey> beuno, mhall119: looks like probably an issue with system-settings, as i didn't see any u-d-m log activity when trying to install updates, but i could install an application just fine via click scope.
<cwayne> mhall119, if you still wanted it: http://people.canonical.com/~cwayne/contact.png
#ubuntu-touch 2014-05-07
<mhall119> cwayne: looks good!
<dholbach> good morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy School Nurse Day! :-D
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, following on from yesterday's discussion of disk-full problems, lp 1316978 is now open, and you may wish to close it as a dupe of the log rotation bug ( lp #1270248), which I've also commented on
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1316978 in android (Ubuntu) "User copying files to ~/phablet can fill media, and prevent boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316978
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1316978 in android (Ubuntu) "User copying files to ~/phablet can fill media, and prevent boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316978
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1270248 in logrotate (Ubuntu) "/var/log fills up disk space on phone" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270248
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1270248 in logrotate (Ubuntu) "/var/log fills up disk space on phone" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270248
<mardy> elopio: hi!
<mardy> elopio: do you have some time to debug that authentication failure?
<elopio> hey mardy
<elopio> I do. Just tell me know what to do.
<mardy> elopio: oh, I just sent you an e-mail
<mardy> elopio: just enable logging in /etc/signond.conf
<mardy> elopio: then try all the flow again, and let's see the syslog
<mardy> elopio: the DBus message appears to be correct
<elopio> mardy: I have it enabled. Let me take a look at the syslog.
<elopio> mardy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7409314/
<elopio> maybe May  7 03:06:35 tangamandapio-desktop signonpluginprocess[5422]: oauth1plugin.cpp 254 process : Invalid provided tokens data - continuing normal process flow
<mardy> elopio: indeed. Let me check the plugin code...
<mardy> elopio: ah, that happens if either of AccessToken or TokenSecret are empty
<mardy> elopio: actually, the keys that ProvidedTokens expects are not exactly the same of the OAuth reply...
<john-mcaleely> rsalveti, the SD Card bug I mentioned yesterday: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android/+bug/1316997
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1316997 in android (Ubuntu) "SD Card fails to auto mount in port" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1316997 in android (Ubuntu) "SD Card fails to auto mount in port" [Undecided,New]
<elopio> mardy: ok!
<elopio> I've put 'dummy' and now it works.
<mardy> elopio: so, you can specify "AccessToken", "TokenSecret", "UserId", "ScreenName"
<mardy> all the rest are ignored
<elopio> weird thing is that it shows the dialog as if it had no account for some seconds. But this is moving forward
<elopio> thank you very much.
<elopio> mardy: what should be the userid? The same as I have in 'edam_userId'?
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, thanks a lot, so the 5% reserved for root wouldnt help at all
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, that makes sense. I'm not clear how reservation would work for non root processes, but would that be the simple fix?
<mardy> elopio: I think you don't need to set it
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, lol, "simple" ... i fear we need quotas or something, that smells like it can get very fiddly and awful
<elopio> mardy: right, they don't seem needed.
<elopio> mardy: ok, only remaining problem, the No account dialog disappears until I go to online accounts
<elopio> am I missing a step?
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, yuk. I think I'm pleased I typed up a separate bug then :-(
<ogra_> yeah
<mardy> elopio: mmm... I don't follow you
<elopio> mardy: I add the account with my credentials.py script.
<elopio> I go to reminders app
<elopio> and it shows me the dialog that says: No Account, go to ...
<elopio> then I opened online accounts to see what was going on
<elopio> and the dialog disappeared.
<elopio> as if I'm missing something on my script that gets done when I open online accounts.
<mardy> elopio: are the account and its service both enabled? (check with account-console)
<elopio> mardy: I think so http://paste.ubuntu.com/7409417/
<mardy> elopio: the "evernote" service is not enabled
<elopio> I see.
<mardy> elopio: this is done by "account-console edit <account> --enable --service evernote", you can see how it's done there
<elopio> mardy: thanks, because my first naive try was unsuccessful :)
<Guest87832> Hi I want to use ubuntu but after downloading 14.04 the file is 930mb and my cd rw will only write to 800mb what can I do?
<elopio> ok, success!
<elopio> mardy: https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/reminders-app/test_with_account/+merge/217171
<elopio> it's ready to review, please take a look when you can.
<mardy> elopio: cool! OK, will do that a bit later
<elopio> thanks for your help. I'm going to get some sleep now.
<ogra_> Guest87832, your phone has a CDRom ?
<ogra_> (note this is the ubuntu touch channel for the ubuntu phone OS)
<Guest87832> I have a samsung S3
<Guest87832> I am not trying to put Ubuntu on my phone but on my pc
<ogra_> what do you plan to do with the CD ?
<ogra_> right, then you are wrong here ... #ubuntu isteh right channel for that
<kklimonda> Guest87832: you have to write it on a dvdrw, or an usb stick. it doesn't fit cd anymore
<Guest87832> I haved tried writing to USB stick but it wont write an ISO file (i Have a 16Gb stick)
<kklimonda> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
<Guest87832> I tried re-formatting stick as FAT 32 but and use FREEISOBURNER to write but it wouldnt work
<kklimonda> you can check the steps for creating a stick on that page ^
<Guest87832> OK will try that thanks
<Guest87832> btw I'm in Canterbury UK where are you
<Guest87832> I was wondering if its better rying to find an older version of ubuntu then upgrading once installed. Is that a better way?
<ogra_> sergiusens, ricmm ... bug 1316978 ... does any of you have any idea what we could do if not quotas ?
<ubot5> bug 1316978 in android (Ubuntu) "User copying files to ~/phablet can fill media, and prevent boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316978
<ubottu> bug 1316978 in android (Ubuntu) "User copying files to ~/phablet can fill media, and prevent boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316978
<ogra_> hmm, even quotas might not work
<ogra_> since it would be per user but not per dir
<kklimonda> Guest87832: a better way to do what?
<ogra_> guys, can you take that to #ubuntu ?
<Guest87832> install Ubuntu
<kklimonda> the easiest way is to create a bootable usb stick from 14.04 image
<Guest87832> OK thanks will look at the page you sent and try from stick. Good luck bye
<ahayzen> JohnLea, ping
<JohnLea> ahayzen, pong
<ahayzen> JohnLea, Hi I found an issue where scrolling sheets also scrolls things behind, eg a page. I wanted to confirm that no events should go to the things behind in the two cases where the mouse is inside the sheet and outside?
<JohnLea> ahayzen, yes, you are correct, no events should go to items behind the sheet in these two cases.  in the second case clicking outside this sheet should close the sheet.
<ahayzen> JohnLea, ok thanks for the confirmation :) t1mp ^^
<t1mp> ahayzen: was it scrolling in a sheet or in a popover?
<ahayzen> t1mp, yep
<t1mp> ahayzen: sheet or popover?
<ahayzen> t1mp, sheet uses popover doesn't it?
<t1mp> JohnLea: sheets don't close when you click next to them, they have cancel/confirm buttons
<t1mp> ahayzen: no, but we have a "popup" as a parent of popover, sheet, dialog. easy to confuse
<t1mp> JohnLea: I made a note once that sheets should actually be deprecated. Do you know if that is still the case?
<ahayzen> t1mp, hmm but the patch i did fixed the issue we were having with the DefaultSheet... oh is it because we open it with the popup?
 * ahayzen checks code
<t1mp> ahayzen: ah ok, I thought it was with a popover, not with defaultsheet. Then your question was correct
<ahayzen> t1mp, we do PopupUtils.open() on a DefaultSheet
<t1mp> ahayzen: that's fine
<ahayzen> t1mp, cool thanks :)
<JohnLea> t1mp, yes, sheets are actually depreciated, and the sheets were only ever designed to work in the context of the phone, we never did the designs for desktop/tablet.  However we don't have a replacement for sheets, in most cases where sheets were previously used we are taking the user to a new screen instead.  Again we are only focused on the Phone at the moment, so there will be desktop and tablet use cases that have not been thought
<JohnLea>  through
<Mirv> heh
<t1mp> JohnLea: so we can deprecate sheets (everywhere, also for phone), and the recommendation is to use a new screen instead?
<ahayzen> a new screen?
<JohnLea> t1mp; that is the direction things are currently going, and is what we are doing with the designs we are currently working on.  However the pattern/sdk update is not complete or published yet, and we have not had a chance yet to revisit the old designs that still use sheets, so they continue to use sheets until we can get back to them and update the designs
<JohnLea> t1mp, more we are phasing the use of sheets out, and are not using them in new designs, or when we update designs
<t1mp> JohnLea: okay, we'll keep them around for now then
<JohnLea> t1mp, cool, that sounds like the right think to do for now
<t1mp> JohnLea: when someone needs input from design, what should I recommend? Report a bug in ubuntu-ux, or are those bugs no longer reviewed regularly?
<t1mp> JohnLea: I was asked about this bug yesterday https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ux/+bug/1295993 but there are probably more
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1295993 in Ubuntu UX "[ux]Ubuntu touch colour theme is too dark making it unusable in bright sunlight condition" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295993 in Ubuntu UX "[ux]Ubuntu touch colour theme is too dark making it unusable in bright sunlight condition" [Undecided,New]
<JohnLea> t1mp, yes, any issue should be reported as a bug to ubuntu-ux (also marked 'also affects' with the engineering project responsible for the component), then once this is done if the issue is urgent ping someone here to get someone to take a look at it
<JohnLea> as we have a lot of bugs
<t1mp> yes I saw, 520 open, that's at least a challenge to manage
<JohnLea> t1mp, re. that bug, we are moving to light background so that will solve that issue.  However there is another bug open saying that lighter background harm battery life!  Cant win them all ;-)
<t1mp> JohnLea: I'll copy&paste your answer in the bug and close it then
<JohnLea> cool, thanks!
<t1mp> JohnLea: I think many of the design bugs are simple questions and perhaps can be closed after answering them
<JohnLea> t1mp; we are currently reviewing all the bugs and assigning them to people, and then the next task will be for the assignees to answer and close or action.  I also think most of them can be closed
<t1mp> JohnLea: ok that's great. Good to know.
<JohnLea> but need to do full review (which is in progress)
<t1mp> perfect :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: should mtp check avail space before starting to copy/write?
<ogra_> sergiusens, well, that wont help with i.e. dowloaded content
<sergiusens> ogra_: so it's not a matter of filling up the disk, more so of leaving little avail; fwiw, the same is almost as applicable to the desktop
<popey> sergiusens: did you speak to asac about reminders?
<sergiusens> popey: arg, forgot
<sergiusens> asac: some peeps want reminders in the default install; are we ok with that? Test enablement should happen once it's in and can be coordinated between popey and doanac
<ogra_> the desktop will still boot to lightdm ... the phone wont
<ogra_> (due to autologin)
<sergiusens> ogra_: nothing easy comes to mind here... :-/
<ogra_> yeah ... the only thing i can imagine is to keep data and dot dirs on separate partitions ...
<ogra_> then we could quota it ...
<asac> sergiusens: what are reminders?
<popey> sergiusens: it's an app which lets you sync notes down from evernote and view/edit them on your phone
<sergiusens> popey: I know what it is ;-)
<popey> sergiusens: er, mis-hilight there, sorry â»
<bzoltan1> Mirv:  did the train whistle?
<sergiusens> popey: come to think of it; we agreed we would add apps into the default install if the app was of good quality
<Mirv> bzoltan1: yes it did
<popey> mardy: ping!
<popey> paste.ubuntu.com/7409741/ getting that when trying to update an app on my phone - is that a signon issue?
<popey> 2014-05-07 10:50:56,524 - CRITICAL - ../../../../lib/SignOn/connection-manager.cpp 106 setupSocketConnection p2p error: QDBusError("org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.FileNotFound", "Failed to connect to socket /run/user/32011/signond/socket: No such file or directory") 1
<cwayne> hm, where are XDG_CONFIG_DIRS initially defined?
<mardy> popey: hi! Yes, that's a signon issue, but it's harmless
<mardy> popey: in trunk I've turned that critical into a debug
 * ogra_ guesses the issue is:
<ogra_> 2014-05-07 12:58:05,467 - WARNING - QDBusObjectPath: invalid path "https://public.apps.ubuntu.com/download/com.ubuntu.developer.bobo1993324/qmltextreader/com.ubuntu.developer.bobo1993324.qmltextreader_0.1.2-c_armhf.click"
<ogra_> and i think thats a mandel issue (u-d-m)
<ogra_> or an issue with whatever hands that url to u-d-m
<nik90> ogra_: Does taking screenshots work on utopic #15? When I use phablet-screenshot, I keep getting "remote object '/tmp/mir_screencast_768x1280.rgba' does not exist". Rebooting doesnt seem to help.
<popey> nik90: filename changed
<ogra_> nik90, ah, thanks for the reminder ... i have a fix half done for that
<popey> nik90: look in /tmp, it's (bizzarely) got a 60Hz added to it
<popey> bug 1316806
<ogra_> until that lands, just hack the filename
<ubot5> bug 1316806 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "phablet-screenshot looking for the wrong filename" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316806
<ubottu> bug 1316806 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "phablet-screenshot looking for the wrong filename" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316806
<popey> uh, do we need two bots?
<nik90> popey, ogra_: ah thnx..
<ogra_> popey, no, the second one returned after jussi added the other one it seems
 * popey pokes irc people
<nik90> ogra_, popey: phablet-screenshot keeps taking the screenshot of the app scope instead of the actual app that I am in.
<popey> odd
<ogra_> yeah
<nik90> ogra_: yeah to the issue? or to it being odd?
<ogra_> odd :)
 * nik90 tries rebooting
<ranjith> hello my wifi is not working after update to 12.10
<ranjith> please help me any one
 * ogra_ notes ChickenCutlass brought his evil twin today
<cwayne> ogra_, ChickenCutlass *is* the evil twin
<robjh> hey. are there any examples i can go look at showing opengl's usage with mir?
<ChickenCutlass_> ogra_, how do I kill one of them
<ogra_> jodh, wrangling with bug 1316978 ... is there a way to make upstart fall back gracefully to omit all logging weh the disk is full ? so that at least the session can still start
<ubottu> bug 1316978 in android (Ubuntu) "User copying files to ~/phablet can fill media, and prevent upstart from creating logs (which kills the session)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316978
<ubot5> bug 1316978 in android (Ubuntu) "User copying files to ~/phablet can fill media, and prevent upstart from creating logs (which kills the session)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316978
<ogra_> ChickenCutlass_, nickserv has a ghost command iirc
<ChickenCutlass_> ok I will look
<ogra_> robjh, try asking in #ubuntu-mir
<jussi> ubottu: part
 * ogra_ hugs jussi 
<jussi> there you are popey :)
<ogra_> master of the bots :)
 * jussi hugs ogra_ back
<popey> thanks jussi â»
<jussi> You are most welcome
<jodh> ogra_: it already does that. That bug appears to be an issue with the dbus job which is trying to write into $HOME. Maybe it could write to /run ?
<ogra_> hmm, i wonder why ...
 * ogra_ takes a look at the job 
<ogra_> echo "DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=${DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS}" >$HOME/.cache/upstart/dbus-session || true
<ogra_> and [ -d "$HOME/.cache/upstart" ] || mkdir -p "$HOME/.cache/upstart" || true
<ogra_> hmpf
<ogra_> thats not easily movable to /run ...
<jodh> ogra_: why not?
<ogra_> jodh, it is parsed by commandline shells too ... for autopilot etc
<jodh> ogra_: well, the solution is to move that file, or dispence with it completely.
<ogra_> though if no dbus runs its probably moot to parse it
<ogra_> but even if we move it ... there are other session bits writing to bashrc ... that will be the next stopgap ...
<ogra_> sigh
<ogra_> i wish we could fix that on a filesystem level instead
<jodh> ogra_: could those things 'initctl set-env' rather than actually modifying .bashrc I wonder?
<ogra_> jodh, hmm
<ogra_> jodh, i guess they theoretically could ... but thats a hell of a lot of stuff to re-work
<cwayne> jodh, heya, so upstart looks in XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/upstart for session jobs right? my problem with that is, how can we make sure the dir we need is in XDG_CONFIG_DIRS before upstart has started?
<jodh> cwayne: you'll need to tweak the script you use to start upstart since the directory needs to exist at the point upstart starts.
<cwayne> jodh, any idea where that script lives?
<mardy> mpt: hi! Do you have a minute (topic is "scopes and Online Accounts")?
<mpt> mardy, yep
<mardy> mpt: so, there is an issue: some scopes might want to use Online Accounts, but ATM the only way to grant them access to an account is if the user goes to the System Settings, opens Online Accounts, taps on an account and enables the scope from there
<robjh> thank you ogra_ :)
<mardy> mpt: which is not very discoverable
<t1mp> mardy: hello
<mardy> mpt: dbarth will probably set a meeting to talk about this on Friday, would you like to join?
<mardy> t1mp: hi!
<t1mp> mardy: can you resubmit https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/lp1296728/+merge/212460 for merging to lp:~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/staging instead?
<jodh> cwayne: last time I looked it was /usr/bin/ubuntu-touch-session
<t1mp> mardy: all our MRs go there first, and after that we land them to lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit
<mardy> t1mp: oh, you are also a victim of the citrain, I see... :-)
<cwayne> jodh, lovely, thank you
<mpt> mardy, sure
<t1mp> mardy: we are still working on figuring out what is the optimal way for us to use it ;)
<cwayne> t1mp, btw, tested out the uitk with new headers last night, looks great!
<t1mp> mardy: but yeah, we have a staging now in case landings are slowed down (and it needs to land before going to trunk)
<t1mp> cwayne: awesome :)
<t1mp> cwayne: which apps are you testing?
<cwayne> t1mp, i tried out some of mine, and then just started adding useDeprecatedToolbar to false in some of the preinstalls to get an idea of what they'd look like
<mardy> t1mp: done
<t1mp> cwayne: nice. We made it opt-in so the app developers can check first to see if it works for their app
<t1mp> mardy: thanks. We'll ask loicm to review https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/lp1296728/+merge/218617 since he knows the ubuntushape best
<asac> sergiusens: what are reminders? :)
<asac> which context?
<mpt> mardy, is it the same problem with System Settings âUpdatesâ right now? It says âCredentials not foundâ and âPlease log into your Ubuntu One account.â
<mpt> (And I tap that and it animatedly switches to â¦ itself, which I assume is a separate problem)
<seb128> asac, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Reminders
<sergiusens> asac: I don't follow; reminder is just an app that needs to be added to the click seeds
<cwayne> t1mp, nice, good idea :)
<pmcgowan> seb128, do you know if anyone is working on the can't update apps bug?
<seb128> pmcgowan, it was just being discussed on #ubuntu-ci-eng, and popey/didrocks figured out it's due to the ubuntu-download-manager update on utopic #5
<seb128> pmcgowan, mandel is not around though, we are waiting for him I guess
<ogra_> pmcgowan, once we find mandel someone will :)
<pmcgowan> ah very good
 * ogra_ lifts the carpet to take a look ... i guess he heard doanload-manager and ran away
<didrocks> pmcgowan: bug #1317067
<ubot5> bug 1317067 in ubuntu-download-manager (Ubuntu) "Can't update click apps since image #5 in utopic" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317067
<pmcgowan> didrocks, ok, there are a number of dupes for that ;)
<didrocks> pmcgowan: there are some infos on that one, but as long as it's targeted and assign to the right person, I don't care :)
<didrocks> I set to mandel for now (but he isn't around)
<pmcgowan> yep
<popey> pmcgowan: i looked at bugs you'd filed because I thought you'd mentioned it yesterday, but couldnt see one so filed a new
<pmcgowan> np
<kenvandine> Elleo, i triggered a CI rebuild for your content-hub branch
<Elleo> kenvandine: okay, it's looking like things might be delayed a bit on the webbrowser, as we're needing to rename the udm qml compontent to keep it consistent with other modules (it was UbuntuDownloadManager rather than Ubuntu.DownloadManager)
<Elleo> kenvandine: I've submitted a branch that changes that now though, so hopefully it'll all go through fairly quickly
<dbarth> mpt: something to do about scopes rather; what the experience for using a specific identity would be
<dbarth> (still otp, but reading here)
<mpt> dbarth, I did a design for that back in <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OnlineAccounts?action=recall&rev=10#phone-access>, and Katie did a similar design in <http://goo.gl/XciCGp>
<mhall119> kenvandine: why is online-accounts a separate app from system-settings, when none of the others are?
<kenvandine> because it can actually be run separately
<mpt> I would love to know the answer to that ^ question too â¦ It causes numerous UI bugs
<kenvandine> for example it provides the binary to run for auth
<kenvandine> when something needs a re-auth, etc
<kenvandine> and apps can use it for adding online accounts
<kenvandine> without starting all of system-settings
<kenvandine> eventually in a modal way
<mhall119> it does make for an unusual experience though, when pressing "back" you actually leave one app, but never quite switch to the other
<kenvandine> like friends-app could let you add an online account directly without taking you to system-settings
<kenvandine> that is until we have trusted sessions :)
<kenvandine> and actually it not switching is probably just a bug
<kenvandine> when it exits, the previous app should be focused
<mpt> It showing up as an app is a bug too. The dialog for entering a Wi-Fi password doesnât show up as an app.
<mpt> When we have printing, the printer setup wonât be an app, etc
<kenvandine> i think that's a snap decision, right?
<kenvandine> the plan for online accounts is to use a trusted session, to give you a modal experience
<kenvandine> like you never leave the app
<kenvandine> content-hub will do the same
<mhall119> ok, so this is a stop-gap measure
<kenvandine> yeah
 * kenvandine hopes we get trusted sessions soon
<kenvandine> it'll improve the content-hub experience 10x
<dbarth> right trusted session is needed (and some refactoring) to have it get back to being a normal settings plugin
<dbarth> the reason it's out is because this is the best way to have it deal with app requests while trrusted sessions wee missing
<dbarth> mardy: ^^
<mterry> Does music not work in u15?
<mterry> All my songs just stay at 0:00
<mterry> Oh, an ogg works
<cwayne> jodh, hey, so upstart will look for jobs in XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/upstart *and* /usr/share/upstart/sessions right?
<jodh> cwayne: yes - see the ordered list of search directories in init(5) under "User Session Mode"
<ahayzen> mterry, which file format you using?
<mterry> ahayzen, the ones that didn't work were mp3
<ahayzen> mterry, hmm ok i'll take a look later, usually i test mp3, ogg, flac, m4a
<asac> sergiusens: well, i didnt even know reminders existed, so nothing to follow, just explain  :)
<ogra_> asac, others call it "evernote"  ;)
<asac> odd name for evernote app
<asac> trademark issue?
<ogra_> no idea
<ogra_> popey might know why it is named like that
<popey> They do not allow 3rd party app devs to call it Evernote
<pmcgowan> yes, brand issue
<popey> only they can
<pmcgowan> they may change their minds later
<mardy> mpt: well, that's another issue, which will be fixed with no changes to the UX design
<mardy> mpt: the problem for scopes is that they don't have a UI
<mpt> mardy, I donât know what you mean by either âUXâ or âUIâ thereâ¦
<mardy> mpt: that is, it's not clear when and how a user should grant account access to a scope
<mpt> How do scopes not have a UI??
<mpt> A scope *is* a UI.
<mpt> mardy, oh, do you mean they donât have an identity like an app does?
<mardy> mpt: well, AFAIK the UI is provided by unity8, the scope provides the data and style
<mpt> ââAppsâ wants access to your Ubuntu One account.â
<mardy> mpt: they do have an identity, but when and how should this ââScopeâ wants access to your Ubuntu One account.â appear?
<mpt> mardy, what is the problem with it being presented the same way as for an app?
<mardy> mpt: OK, but when? The first time one does a search?
<mardy> mpt: or when the scope is first installed?
<mpt> mardy, when the scope asks for access to the account. Same as for an app.
<mpt> Exactly when that happens is up to the scope designer.
<mardy> mpt: mmm... the difference is that an application has its own window, and will typically request access to an account in response to a user action (such as clicking on an "Add account" button)
<mardy> mpt: it's not clear to me where the scope should put that "Add account" button (if anywhere)
<mpt> mardy, again, thatâs up to the scope designer, itâs not an Online Accounts issue. Itâs possible it might be solved for default scopes by having âDashâ settings in System Settings, but thatâs still up to the Dash designers, itâs not an issue with Online Accounts itself.
<mpt> mardy, mikenagle is the one to ask about Dash design issues.
<mardy> mpt: ah, OK, for some reason I thought that you should design the whole Ubuntu Touch :-)
<mardy> mikenagle: hi! If you have some time, please read the backlog of the chat between me and mpt (last 20 minutes)
<mpt> mardy, if I was doing that, we wouldnât have âscopesâ in the first place. ;-)
<pmcgowan> ToyKeeper, hi, whats the bug # for the over sensitive screen rotation?
<ogra_> whiners ... just hold your hands steady :P
<pmcgowan> heh
<ogra_> :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: parkinson bug?
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> ++
 * ogra_ hands sergiusens the "quote of the day" award
<sergiusens> ogra_: tbh, I had the tablet sitting on my desk and tapped on a button and it rotated :-P not sure if an earthquake was in progress and only the tablet noticed
<sergiusens> lol
<ogra_> well, i dont think it is so much different from android actually
<ogra_> i have that too on an android phone
<ogra_> if i put the phone down to read with hands free and the surface isnt 100% flat it does the same on android
<cwayne> anyone got time for a quick mp to ubuntu-touch-session? https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/ubuntu-touch-session/custom-xdg-config/+merge/218641
<Tassadar> what I had problem with is it tries to rotate every time the phone vibrates after I touch something
<ogra_> Tassadar, i proposed an MP for the heavy vibration ... make bzoltan1 approve it ;)
<Tassadar> bzoltan1: approve it!
<Wellark> awe_: you tried to ping me last night
<awe_> yea, was wondering what happened to the UI for SIM PIN codes?
<awe_> I didn't see it in the network menu anymore and couldn't find it anywhere else...
<Wellark> nothing should have happened to it
<Wellark> the "Unlock SIM..." item is only available if A) there is a modem B) it's locked
<ogra_> Tassadar, https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/improve-haptics/+merge/218466 FYI
<Wellark> awe_: you are not seeing it at all=
<Wellark> is this on devel-proposed?
<awe_> OK, I can re-test again, but it sure wasn't there yesterday
<Wellark> awe_: any changes to ofono landed recently?
<awe_> Wellark, yes... proposed as of yesterday
<awe_> no
<awe_> well, this  was actually with the ofono silo
<awe_> but shouldn't have had any effect
<awe_> I'll re-test with the image & the existing  ofono after we finish our stand-up
<Wellark> awe_: is that the silo that also contains the dbus control channel to phonesim plugin?
<awe_> also, not sure if you saw my indicator-network bug for flight-mode
<awe_> Wellark, yes
<Wellark> awe_: good. I'm preparing an indicator-network silo as we speak
<Wellark> and I can mark the ofono silo as prerequisite
<awe_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-network/+bug/1315144
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1315144 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "Indicator icons don't reflect modem Offline state" [Undecided,New]
<Wellark> awe_: ok, that should also be "fixed" with the silo i'm preparing
<awe_> ok
<Wellark> although we are not showing anything for modem offline
<Wellark> but we are showing a flightmode icon
<Wellark> iff urfkill tells that we are in flightmode
<awe_> ok
<Wellark> BUT
<Wellark> as there is no flightModeChanged signal coming from urfkill
<Wellark> if you go and manually activate flightmode
<Wellark> through dbus for example
<Wellark> indicator-network has no way of knowing we just went to flightmode
<bzoltan1> Tassadar: show me that MR :)
<Wellark> as I tried to explain in the urfkill bug
<Tassadar> bzoltan1: https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/improve-haptics/+merge/218466
<ogra_> bzoltan1, https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/improve-haptics/+merge/218466
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> makes it more feel like android ... and the phone doesnt want to jump out of your hands
<bzoltan1> ogra_:  what was thelink again?
<ogra_> bzoltan1, less awful haptics for button presses ...
<ToyKeeper> pmcgowan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1308376  and   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1288332
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1288332 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1308376 Orientation lock not available (rotation/portrait lock)" [Low,Triaged]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1288332 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Orientation lock not available (rotation/portrait lock)" [Low,Triaged]
<awe_> Wellark, to be clear modem == offline & flighmode == enabled are two different conditions the indicator should recognize
<Wellark> awe_: sure they are
<Wellark> awe_: I have
<Wellark>     case Modem::SimStatus::offline:
<Wellark>         /// @todo show something.
<Wellark>         break;
<awe_> if the lack of the flight-mode signal is truly a blocker, then cyphermox will need to fix this before we can land flight-mode
<Wellark> fwiw
<__lucio__> aquarius, Chipaca, hello!
<Wellark> it's not a blocker as long as nobody is trying to mess with flightmode
<Wellark> other than indicator-network
<aquarius> heya __lucio__
<__lucio__> aquarius, hello mr! how are you doing?
<awe_> Wellark, I don't think we can make that a limitation
<awe_> Wellark, so I guess we'd need to fix
<aquarius> __lucio__, not too bad -- we're halfway through the week :)
<Wellark> awe_: yes, we can't make thst limitation in the long run
<Wellark> but right now it's not a blocker
<awe_> it'd be broken for use to keep separate flight-mode states in the indicator and urfkill
<Wellark> awe_: is urfkill in a state that it can be included to the image?
<Wellark> once my indicator-network branch lands it pulls in urfkill
<awe_> mo
<awe_> s/mo/no/
<__lucio__> aquarius, nice way to look at it, do you have some time to discuss the app you have in mind?
<awe_> we're trying to get there, but it sounds like this signal needs to be added
<Wellark> ok. let me put that another way.. if I now land indicator-network that pulls in the urfkill we have in the archive will that break everyones devices and desktops where unity8 is installed?
<awe_> please don't do that
<Wellark> so, I need to throw out flightmode code then
<awe_> there are still bugs in urfkill that we're trying to fix
<Wellark> ok. I can do that
<awe_> I will schedule a hangout tomorrow for the usual network/telephony sync time so that we can discuss
<awe_> it sounds like we're not all on the same page
<aquarius> __lucio__, sure thing. What I believe would be useful for push notifications are two things: the basics, which I'm sure you're already working on, and secondly a way for an app to ask for a list of push notifications that arrived since it last asked, along with their payloads.
<mpt> mardy, I just realized: Having a scope ask for access to an online account, rather than the Dash as a whole, is like having a Web site ask for access to your location, rather than the Browser as a whole.
<aquarius> mpt, that's what websites do, no?
<mpt> aquarius, thatâs my point
<aquarius> __lucio__, the use case here is: other platforms send a push notification to my, for example, messaging app. The OS shows the notification and I can read it in the OS. Tapping the notification (or the messaging menu) launches my app, but my app doesn't know what the notifications were!
<Wellark> awe_: I see only one critical bug against urfkill
<aquarius> mpt, oh, good, OK then, I'll shut up again ;)]
<__lucio__> aquarius, thats the mailbox model, as opossed to the mailmain model, where we start the app and deliver notifications to it
<Wellark> and that's fix committed
<Chipaca> aquarius: that's one of the bits of the api, yes
<aquarius> __lucio__, oh, a notification will always start my app?
<mpt> mardy, so if itâs possible for the browser, it should be possible for the Dash.
<aquarius> __lucio__, presumably it starts some sort of invisible daemon subset of my app, right?
<__lucio__> aquarius, no, the user interacting with the notification will do it
<__lucio__> actually, we deliver "notified users", not notifications :)
<aquarius> __lucio__, ah, no. Because if I get ten notifications from, say, Twitter while I'm asleep, I'd like the Twitter app to be able to get the content of those ten notifications when it starts up even if I only interact with one
<ogra_> mpt, will you be in malta ?
<Wellark> awe_: could we have a hangout later today on the urfkill situation? I need to prepare a silo and I need to know what are the limitations
<mpt> ogra_, yes
<Chipaca> aquarius: __lucio__: a general answer, and some considerations
<__lucio__> go ahead
<ogra_> mpt, good ... i need to discuss some error mesage stuff with you we will need to show to the user
<aquarius> __lucio__, it is immensely annoying that the OS has the content of those notifications but the app doesn't -- I start up my messaging app with no network, and it won't show me the messages even though the phone already has them
<Chipaca> aquarius: __lucio__: first, there will be an api endpoint to get a backlog of notifications
<Chipaca> aquarius: __lucio__: these are notifications that have been delivered to the phone, no server-side work
<aquarius> local api endpoint? or server api endpoint?
<Chipaca> aquarius: __lucio__: the app still needs to deal with there being more notifications than whatever arbitrary limit we set
<Chipaca> aquarius: local
<awe_> Wellark, sure...let me check with cyphermox.  maybe +2h from now?
<Chipaca> aquarius: as far as the server is concerned those notifications were delivered
<Chipaca> aquarius: (at this stage, where we are not implementing at-most-once)
<aquarius> Sure; if my app gets a zillion notifications then we'll only cache the last fifty or ten or whatever; I would expect whatever shows me recent notifications as part of the OS would have that same cache.
<mpt> ogra_, ok. In the meantime, <http://goo.gl/YeKRGe> may answer your question.
<Wellark> awe_: 2h from now is 20:30 to me.. so the sooner the better
<aquarius> (the pull-down top menu in Android or iOS, for example)
<Wellark> awe_: but 2h works for me, too
<Chipaca> aquarius: caches are hard enough without having multiple of them and making promises about keeping them in sync :) but yes
<Wellark> awe_: or later if absolutely no other chance
<Wellark> awe_: just ping me when you have a time to propose
<Wellark> thanks!
<ogra_> mpt, i think we have an error message for that on the desktop already ... but we will need to adapt that for the phone (the issue is that if the disk is full you will not be able to run apps etc, we need to tell teh user to free diskspace somehow )
<Chipaca> aquarius: there will also be a bit of the api whereby if an app is running it'll get the notifications directly, if it wants to
<aquarius> Chipaca, ya, I'd expect that, indeed -- that's part of the "basic" stuff I mentioned :
<awe_> Wellark, I just need to hear back from cyphermox
<lucio_> Chipaca: "if it wants to" ?
<mhall119> is there a fix to phablet-screenshot yet?
<Chipaca> lucio_: was thinking of making that part optional
<ogra_> mhall119, i was planning to work on that but a big big bug cam in ma
<ogra_> cam in my way now
<popey> mhall119: yeah, or just fudge it locally to add _60Hz to the url
<ogra_> *came
<popey> s/url/filename/
<ogra_> right, you can just hack it for the moment
<lucio_> Chipaca: why optional?
<Chipaca> lucio_: because it makes the logic a little bit more complex; there's yet another thing the appdev needs to do
<Chipaca> lucio_: it enables them to do better stuff, but it's more work
<ogra_> popey, mhall119 i would just add that bit but the script should stay backwards compatible so its a little more than just adding the missing bits
<popey> right
<aquarius> Chipaca, fire an event inside the app. The "optional" part is whether my app *does* anything with that event; I shoudl always *get* the event.
<popey> or the mir screenshot tool shouldn't add _60Hz to still image shots
<popey> seems like a bizarre change to me
<Chipaca> aquarius: but if it doesn't do anything, then nobody did anything with that notification
<ogra_> it shouldnt add a frequency at all
<ogra_> i still dont see what that is for
<aquarius> Chipaca, right. Which is the app's fault. Apps that are currently the open foreground app need to deal with notifications themselves; the OS should not show them. That's what I think. Others may differ. :)
<Chipaca> aquarius: lucio_: if that is the consensus, I'm fine with it being not-optional. Mo' YAGNI mo' fun.
<aquarius> Chipaca, "I think it" is not really a consensus :) But you have my opinion now :)
<lucio_> yeah, "i think"
 * Chipaca nods
<lucio_> dont know how to know
<Chipaca> lucio_: one way is to implement the minimal one and wait for the feature requests
<lucio_> aquarius: is the intermediated delivery model good enough for your needs?
<lucio_> Chipaca: +1
<aquarius> nah. This is new stuff for Ubuntu. You need, in my opinion, to set a strong consistent guideline on how you want people to work with and deal with notifications, so that everyone copies it and people who do it wrong look like they're falling behind.
<aquarius> lucio_, explain "the intermediated delivery model"?
<lucio_> aquarius: your app wont know about it until the user clicks on it
<ogra_> mterry, poke ...
<aquarius> lucio_, hrm. Then I think no. :)
<Chipaca> aquarius: .more()
<mterry> ogra_, hi
<lucio_> aquarius: isnt this the iphone model?
<ogra_> mterry, i'm just fighting with a nasty bug (session doesnmt start when home is full) ... while i will be able to fix the session startup i was wondering how we can allow the user to make emergency calls still ... and i assume you have some way to do that in your split greeter world where the user isnt even logged in ?
<aquarius> lucio_, Chipaca, I can think of three entry points here. (1) my app is running and foreground, and a notification arrives. I believe in this situation that an event should fire in my app, somehow; it is my responsibility to *listen* to that event.
<Chipaca> aquarius: with you so far
<lucio_> yup
<aquarius> lucio_, Chipaca, (2) my app is not running and a notification has arrived. I tap that notification (either at the moment it arrives in a bubble or in some sort of "previous unacknowledged notifications" list. The OS then starts my app. My app should, on startup, have a way to request all notifications that it hasn't already requested.
<aquarius> (and obviously I should *do* that on startup)
<mterry> ogra_, well split greeter mode is still the simple case of no lock -- so emergency dialing isn't a problem yet.  But the greeter has its own home dir.  Can we allocate some space to it via mount config?
<Chipaca> aquarius: yup.
<ogra_> mterry, well, i assume the homedir doesnt live under /home, right ?
<aquarius> lucio_, Chipaca, (3) my app is not running, and a notification (or many) have arrived. I start my app from the Dash. This is the same as case 2 -- I should have a way to request all notifications that I haven't yet requested, and I should do that on startup.
<mterry> ogra_, right.  /var/lib/lightdm
<Chipaca> aquarius: correct
<lucio_> either we deliver notifications when they arrive and on app start, or we signal "more notifications available" and have the app fetch them
<ogra_> mterry, yeah that wont help much if the autologin ran ...
<lucio_> (on signa and startup)
<mterry> ogra_, right now temporary writable space
<aquarius> lucio_, Chipaca, the reason (2) and (3) are separate is that one potential solution here is that in case (2) when I start my app from a notification, the startup should pass the notification *to* the app startup process. I think that that's wrong, because it will discourage peolpe from just checking for notifications on startup/resume in the proper way.
<ogra_> mterry, sad, i was hoping you have some way that makes dialer-app run without needing to log or write to disk otherwise
<ogra_> thanks though
<mterry>  ogra_, there was talk of making the dialer-app a qml plugin
<ogra_> would that help in case where you have no writable diskspace ?
<lucio_> aquarius: the app should know if it was started from the user interaction with the notification or from the dash
<aquarius> why?
<mterry> ogra_, I don't know.  I'm not sure what the problem is with launching it right now (like, I don't know what it writes to).  But dialer-app has a special emergency mode -- presumable we can just make it not write in that case
<aquarius> actually, so you can know *what* they pressed on. Yes.
<lucio_> Chipaca: also, when starting the app, the app should be able to clear notifications that are displayed
<Chipaca> lucio_: agreed on "should".
<Chipaca> lucio_: not promising that yet :)
<lucio_> Chipaca: then we need a clear story so that we dont have those around and have the user hand cleaning notifications
<aquarius> but it may be worth passing, maybe, just the notification ID or similar, and only providing a "fetchAllUnrequestedNotifications()" API function, *not* one to just get one notification by ID. Then you have to fetch them all and find the one that they clicked on in the list, which is a good encouragement to deal with all notifications, not just the clicked one.
<aquarius> fetchAllUnrequestedNotifications() would clear them from the notification cache, surely?
<ogra_> mterry, yeah, that would help ... the issue atm is that the session doesnt start at all when /home is full, i cant really restrict the user from filling it up ... i can change the session mgr in a way that it only writes to tmpfs dirs but that wont help with apps ... thats why i ask about the dialer since that still needs to function even with full home
<lucio_> aquarius: depends, clicking on one notification to solve one issue might not mean the other issues are solved
<Chipaca> aquarius: lucio wants us to remove them from e.g. the messaging menu once the apps have them
<lucio_> once the apps decides to do so
<Chipaca> W/E
<Chipaca> :)
<lucio_> w/e?
<Chipaca> lucio_: shorthand for "yes sir, anything you say sir"
<aquarius> lucio_, no, but it does mean that the app *knows* that that notification occurred. At that point, the OS doesn't need to keep the list of them around any longer; it's the app's responsibility now
<Chipaca> ell
<lucio_> aquarius: so the app should re notify the user?
<aquarius> lucio_, and the OS can be sure that the app knows about that notification because the app is only allowed to request all outstanding notifications, not just one specific one.
<Chipaca> the app can crash between getting them and storing them
<aquarius> lucio_, the app can do what it wants. You can't know what an app should best do with a notification.
<Chipaca> but we can ignore that for now i guess
<ogra_> bzoltan, btw, that haptic  MP should also help with ToyKeeper's pet bug 1290201
<ubot5> bug 1290201 in dialer-app "haptic feedback / vibration audible during calls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290201
<ogra_> at least a little :)
<lucio_> mmh, i like the model of start with ID of clicked notification, require get all, clean outstanding notifications on get_all
<lucio_>  Chipaca ^ what do you think? doable?
<Chipaca> lucio_: very
<Chipaca> lucio_: if we want to guard against the app crashing we need to do more work, but i think we don't
<lucio_> yeah
<Chipaca> lucio_: (because the app should be able to, at a bit more cost, go get whatever info it was being sent in notifications if it lost them)
<lucio_> makes sense
<lucio_> aquarius: ^ would that work for you? notice we dont offer the "put notification in lock screen"
<lucio_> feature
<Chipaca> but that's more a failure of the notification framework we have on the phone, than of *push* notifications itself
<Chipaca> whoops
<lucio_> Chipaca: more or less, its also a feature that we dont let you do everything
<aquarius> lucio_, Chipaca, agreed. There may be, currently, no way to see a list of notifications you've got but not acknowledged yet if you failed to tap them when they appeared, but I bet we'll grow one at some point.
<Chipaca> lucio_: I'm assuming that when that feature exists, we'll be exposing it to push clients
<lucio_> Chipaca: what i mean is, if you replace our current lock screen with your own, you still need us to allow putting notification in there
<lucio_> and that wont change
<Chipaca> lucio_: ok
<Chipaca> lucio_: aquarius: anything else? otherwise I'll go push kids through homework
<lucio_> i am happy
<aquarius> Chipaca, I don't have anything else -- my primary goal was to push (!) the idea that apps can ask the phone for notifications that the phone knows about rather than being forced to hit its own internet server for them
<Chipaca> aquarius: well, we're already required to keep the id around for the server, so keeping the whole hting is very little more work :)
<aquarius> Chipaca, I have one little extra thing, which is that it would be nice if I could include more in a notification payload than just the text which is displayed to the user
<Chipaca> aquarius: it's a json document :)
<aquarius> Chipaca, so I can send a notification to a messaging app like { display_to_user: "Chipaca says: hi!", payload: { from: "user101204", user_display_name: "Chipaca", sent_at: "20140705T170000" }} or similar
<Chipaca> aquarius: quite
<aquarius> Chipaca, ah, cool, so it already *is* that? and there's a specific field which is "the thing which gets displayed in the notifiy bubble"?
<mhall119> Kaleo: do you know of any good tutorials explaining how to properly use WorkerScript and Loader to optimize an app?
<lucio_> aquarius: some fields we interpret as to how to notify the user, the rest , up to size limits, is up to you
<Chipaca> aquarius: well, it isn't implemented, but yes. There's even a first pass of a draft at a table of the fields that are relevant
<aquarius> lucio_, cool, so what I wanted is already the plan. I like it when that happens ;)
<lucio_> :)
<Chipaca> aquarius: lucio_: um. toplevel fields are limited, but there's a "payload" one
<lucio_> Chipaca: even better
<aquarius> doesn't matter how the json is organised -- pick whatever's best for you. Just as long as I can add data which is meaningful to the app but not displayed to the user :)
<Chipaca> aquarius: lucio_: but that might just be a way to say "nuh, you were using unsupported fields, and that field you were using now means stuff so that's why your app broke", although tvoss would rather we enforce it :)
<Chipaca> aquarius: I even support the idea of notifications that aren't displayed at all (but am unsure whether that is actually useful :-) )0
<lucio_> Chipaca: thats why payload works, right?
<aquarius> Chipaca, fair enough -- define a "payload" field and promise I can put what I like in it, and filter all top-level unknown fields on the server
<Chipaca> lucio_: yep
<aquarius> I personally think that notifications delivered while my app is foreground should not get a notify bubble, but I can see the other side of that argument.
<aquarius> I'm not sure that I can think of a reason to deliver a notification which doesn't get a bubble even if my app is not foreground, but if it turns out to be important then you just document a dont_show_a_bubble:true top-level field and have notify-osd pay attention to it ;)
<Chipaca> ok, i'm off. bbl!
<aquarius> as am I, actually -- cheers for the time, lucio_ and Chipaca!
<lucio_> cheers
<lucio_> thanks
<slangasek> sergiusens: hi, I've just had my attention drawn to the nuntium package in NEW.  Why is this using golang-go?  The plan as of last October was that go packages would be built using gccgo
<popey> beuno: the store is only returning 100 clicks when queried is this intentional?
<slangasek> sergiusens: also, what are you expecting this upstart job to do?  because it appears to have a race condition
<popey> on 5th may it returned 281 for me
<slangasek> sergiusens: finally, debian/nuntium*.lintian-overrides are absolutely wrong.  It's not appropriate to suppress lintian messages about things that should be fixed in the package
<mhall119> mzanetti: ping
<mzanetti> hi mhall119
<mhall119> mzanetti: hey, are you aware that Tagger no longer works?
<mzanetti> mhall119: no, I wasn't
<mzanetti> mhall119: thanks for the report
<mzanetti> will check it out
<mhall119> mzanetti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7411305/ is the log
<popey> mhall119: i replied to your store upload of tagger a while back btw
<mzanetti> hmm... I think I've fixed this already
<mhall119> when I select to scan a code, it'll open the camera and give me a preview for almost a second before crashing
<mzanetti> yeah. I know this issue
<mzanetti> and I've fixed
<mhall119> popey: my upload?
<popey> I mean, mzanetti
<mhall119> oh, ok
<mzanetti> ah there it is
<mzanetti> yep... didn't pass the store review and I forgot about it
<mzanetti> sorry popey
<popey> np â»
<popey> your app â»
 * popey goes to harras children into eating vegetables.
<mhall119> <christopherwalken>I gotta have more QR code</christopherwalken>
<grepped> Hi, Anything new about MOTO G port?
<grepped> Anybody working on ubuntu-touch on moto-G handset?
<ogra_> check the devices wikipage
<ogra_> !devices | grepped
<ubot5> grepped: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<ogra_> if someone works on it he should have added it there (and a way to contact him/her)
<cwayne_> ogra_, ping
<ogra_> cwayne_, i'm here
<Kaleo> mhall119, sorry, not from the top of my head
<ogra_> and from the bottom ?
<cwayne_> ogra_, you have a script to create webapps right?
<ogra_> cwayne_, well, kind of ... its buggy and all but i can give it to you ...
<cwayne_> ogra_, works for me :)
<ogra_> cwayne_, people.canonical.com/~ogra/webapp-script.tgz
<ogra_> just a bunch of templates ... you still need to create/find an icon
<ogra_> (there is a README, tell me if something is missing from it)
<grepped> ubot5, thanks. Which device are you working on? I have background of QT/C++ under linux, is it sufficient to start my own port?
<ubot5> grepped: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<grepped> ubot5, god! you are a bot, what IRC client have hacked?
<ubot5> grepped: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sergiusens> slangasek: wrt to overrides; can I just leave them be? afaik, there are no changelogs for any of these packages
<slangasek> sergiusens: I don't really care about the override for the changelogs, but the other two overrides are hiding reports of real bugs - one a policy violation that we don't care too much about (manpage), and one that's a security issue (lack of hardening due to use of golang-gc)
<sergiusens> slangasek: wrt to gcc-go and golang-go all I know of is a current internal thread going on; but I can try and switch; I guess more packages would need this too (usensord, ubuntu-push-notifications)
<sergiusens> slangasek: what's the race condition in the job?
<sergiusens> slangasek: I'll drop the overrides then
<slangasek> the internal thread is that lots of people have lots of opinions; but the agreed approach TTBOMK is to use gccgo here
<sergiusens> I'll check what I have to export to get it to build with gcc-go and see how it works out
<slangasek> sergiusens: the race condition is that it starts on x or y, and the pre-start script stops the job if it's started in response to x and y hasn't happened yet; if y happens while the pre-start script is running, the job will stop and never be started
<slangasek> sergiusens: thanks.  In the meantime, I think I'm going to reject this package from the queue; I'm around today if you want a second set of eyeballs on the gccgo stuff
<sergiusens> slangasek: ack, thanks
<cwayne_> bzoltan, hey, didn't the webapp template in ubuntu-sdk used to automatically create the manifest.json?
<dobey> kenvandine: if you still want suggestions for pathwind, pass --fullscreen to qmlscene
<kenvandine> dobey, i need to upload a new build, it doesn't use qmlscene anymore :)
<kenvandine> but it does fullscreen
<dobey> ah ok
<kenvandine> made some changes for building on android and ubuntu
<kenvandine> dobey, i also fixed the icon :)
<dobey> yay :)
<kenvandine> i'll publish a new version soon
<kenvandine> haven't had anytime this week
<dobey> heh
 * ogra_ wonders what happens with --fullscreen on idle 
<dobey> the "jetpack" behavior also makes it difficult to play
<dobey> ogra_: idle? as in screen is locked?
<ogra_> does it properly lock the screen ?
<dobey> yes
<kenvandine> dobey, define difficult?
<ogra_> idle as in idle
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> (not activly locking, just leaving it alone)
<dobey> kenvandine: complete lack of control. i can't keep the character in the middle of the screen to dodge things for example. so sometimes it is impossible to avoid getting hit by something
<dobey> ogra_: anyway, yes it locks properly :)
<ogra_> awesome
<dobey> though i don't really understand why fullscreen isn't the default
<cwayne_> popey, hey, are there plans for the core apps to switch to the new headers?
<dobey> also, online accounts is making my life miserable right now :(
<kenvandine> dobey, because everything is fullscreen on the device :)
<dobey> kenvandine: no it isn't
<kenvandine> what?
<dobey> kenvandine: the phone top panel is there in pathwind for example. --fullscreen puts the app on top of that panel
<kenvandine> oh that
<dobey> everything is only "maximized" on device
<dobey> some things are full screen, but not everything
<kenvandine> yeah, it'll be full screen
<dobey> and edges don't rotate
<dobey> nor does the top panel
<dobey> which gets really awkward if you hold the phone upside down :P
<kenvandine> yeah
<dobey> what the heck process is the one that is loading the qml plug-in when i try to add an account?
<kenvandine> ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts
<kenvandine> i think
<dobey> i don't think that's actually a process is it?
<kenvandine> it's provided by that package
<dobey> nope
<kenvandine>  /usr/bin/online-accounts-ui ?
<dobey> i think that's just the list of accounts ui
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> that is also what handles auth
<kenvandine> oh, actually signon-ui might still handle the auth
<dobey> how is it being started?
<kenvandine> signon-ui?
<kenvandine> or online-accounts-ui?
<dobey> also the fact that all this is separate processes is really annoying
<kenvandine> online-accounts-ui is started when it's needed by system-settings or when there is an api call using the appaccess api
<dobey> kenvandine: well, whichever one is actually loading the qml plug-in
<dobey> because i'm trying to run with an env var which is woefully not getting passed to whatever is loading the qml plug-in that needs the env var :(
<kenvandine> system-settings might load the plugin itself, if you are going in that way
<kenvandine> i don't recall
<kenvandine> and i think if you use appaccess it uses the other
<dobey> apparently it's not
<kenvandine> i think it's started by dbus
<kenvandine> it might get spawned when it's needed by system-settings too
<dobey> sigh, this is a horrible mess
<dobey> maybe i should just reboot again
<dobey> brb
<pmcgowan> Saviq, hey my phone UI is frozen and unity8 is running at 100%, anything I can do to debug?
<pmcgowan> kgunn, ^^
<popey> ogra_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-package-index/+bug/1317233
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1317233 in Click Package Index "Store only returning 100 results" [Undecided,New]
<ogra_> confirmed
<bzoltan> cwayne_: it does create when you create the click package ... the manifest files are editable on the Publish page
<cwayne_> bzoltan, ah, ok
<kgunn> pmcgowan: do you still have it in that state ?
<pmcgowan> kgunn, no but I entered a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1317235
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1317235 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "UI frozen and running at 100% CPU" [Undecided,New]
<pmcgowan> not sure the bt is useful
<Saviq> pmcgowan, yeah, not gonna help much... that's basically the mir main loop, and we can't be sure that's what was looping, either
<pmcgowan> drat
<Saviq> pmcgowan, I'll try and come up with a plan on what to do in a case like this - we basically need something to attach to the process and profile it for a few seconds to see what is spinning
<Saviq> pmcgowan, I'll have to ask around
<pmcgowan> ok
<rsalveti> ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~rsalveti/project-rootstock-ng/adding_option_distro_series/+merge/218502
<rsalveti> in case you didn't see it yesterday
<rsalveti> minor fix
<pmcgowan> Saviq, hey so what module controls the rotation? sorry I thought it was the shell?
<pmcgowan> maybe ricmm can tell me ^^
<a700> hi guys, its late but i got an issue during boot. While moving the virtual dirs proc and sys to root, im not further able to connect through adb. Maybe someone can give me some hint to fix it??
<Saviq> pmcgowan, it's via sensors directly
<Saviq> pmcgowan, there's a sensor of type "orientation"
<pmcgowan> Saviq, wheres the logic that detects a rotation change and changes the window
<Saviq> pmcgowan, which takes values from different sensors into account and comes up with a {0,90,180,270} reading
<Saviq> pmcgowan, SDK
<Saviq> pmcgowan, in MainView
<pmcgowan> so its my bug, damn
<Saviq> :D
<pmcgowan> yeah was just looking for it there
<pmcgowan> thanks
<popey> pmcgowan: that it's too sensitive?
<Saviq> pmcgowan, but the fact that it's too sensitive is a sensors bug I'd say
<pmcgowan> popey, yes
<pmcgowan> I dont know
<pmcgowan> Saviq, so where is the logic that says "45 degrees is a rotation change"
<pmcgowan> thats where the bug is
<pmcgowan> also we relayout when the phone gets tapped or josstled
<pmcgowan> not sur ehow that happens
<popey> indeed
<Saviq> pmcgowan, accelerometer
<pmcgowan> nothing to do with a rotate
<popey> i have mentioned this in the past too.. pretty sure there's a bug
<pmcgowan> Saviq, so which package?
<pmcgowan> qtubuntu-sensors?
<popey> bug 1286150
<Saviq> pmcgowan, I meant acc is why it thinks it rotated when it's jostled
<ubot5> bug 1286150 in qtubuntu-sensors (Ubuntu) "Rotating detection is very sensitive mako #212" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286150
<Saviq> pmcgowan, and yes, there
<pmcgowan> Saviq, I cant find the logic there yet
<pmcgowan> or I dont understand it
<Saviq> pmcgowan, altho I'm not entirely sure we can amend the logic at that level (i.e. it might come from hardware and/or android parts)
<Saviq> pmcgowan, ricmm knows best about those
<pmcgowan> Saviq, ok will ask him manana
<kenvandine> dobey, pathwind with the better icon and fullscreen is in the review queue, i'll call this the "dobey release" :)
<kenvandine> dobey, thanks for the feedback!
<dobey> sure
<sergiusens> slangasek: can you please take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/nuntium/packaging_fixes/+merge/218693 ?
<popey> kenvandine: approved
<kenvandine> rock on popey!
<slangasek> sergiusens: looking
<mterry> tedg, can you help test indicator-messages in split mode with me?
<mterry> tedg, I'm wondering if I'm seeing odd behavior
<tedg> mterry, For a bit, I need to run in a few.
<mterry> tedg, we can pick up tomorrow
<tedg> mterry, I usually grab a webirc session and log into #tedtest
<mterry> tedg, say what?
<tedg> mterry, For testing the messaging menu, so that I can ping myself
<mterry> tedg, oh to get incoming messages
<mterry> tedg, that's clever
<mterry> tedg, that will help decide if I'm seeing a problem in telephony or indicator-messages
<josharenson> Having issues flashing nex4.. Hangs on the "google" boot screen. I can adb shell (into busy box) and I can get to the ubuntu recovery console... but I cannot boot :-/ tips?
<mterry> tedg, how do I set that up on the phone?
<tedg> mterry, Hmm, not sure.
<tedg> mterry, But reality is that indicator-messages has no real knowledge of greeter or not.
<tedg> mterry, So it's not getting info from the session.
<mterry> tedg, fair...  so likely telephony-service
<tedg> mterry, That would be my guess, but it also conveniently results in no bug for me :-)
<dobey> josharenson: boot to recovery and flash again with ubuntu-device-flash?
<josharenson> dobey, tried 3 times
<mterry> tedg, I just get weirdly inconsistent results is all.  Anyway.  Tomorrow
<tedg> mterry, Sounds good.
<josharenson> dobey, any use in reflashing android and trying everything again?
<slangasek> sergiusens: commented on the MP
<dobey> josharenson: no idea. reboots and/or reflashing have always worked for me when i hit a similar issue
<josharenson> doeby, guess I'll keep trying the same things if this isn't a known issue. Thanks though.
<slangasek> sergiusens: fwiw I think it's a gccgo-go bug that this doesn't work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7412873/
<slangasek> sergiusens: (and we should file that bug, but not be blocked by it)
<slangasek> sergiusens: so your changes look fine to me in principle, but as I still can't get the package to build...
<sergiusens> slangasek: hmm, let me give it another spin, it did build fine for me in a schroot; I'll bootstrap a new one to reverify
<slangasek> sergiusens: trusty or utopic?
<sergiusens> slangasek: yeah, my bad was I did trusty...
<slangasek> ok, please let me know if you see the same issue then
<sergiusens> slangasek: so building twice works :-/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/7413178/ seems gccgo isn't building it's deps before the target
<slangasek> oh, interesting
<slangasek> I guess you were building in place which is why it worked for you
<slangasek> so yeah, fun
<sergiusens> slangasek: nope, I build multiple ways :-)  bzr bd; bzr bd -S && sbuild *dsc; go build; go build -compiler gccgo
<sergiusens> I'll try a utopic build right now
<slangasek> ok
<sergiusens> fwiw I usually don't go install that much and just go build
<sergiusens> slangasek: yeah, fails on utopic for me too :-/
<sergiusens> I'll give this a triple check from your comments
<sergiusens> blast; I know what it is :-/
<sergiusens> will fix in a bit
#ubuntu-touch 2014-05-08
<sergiusens> slangasek: I've finished updating the MP; I also added the core dev team to phablet-team (invite)
<sergiusens> the few tests in there use code paths with reflection, so I guess I'm not affected by the strip problem; I'll test now and verify
<slangasek> sergiusens: dh_strip would happen after dh_auto_test, regardless
<sergiusens> right
<dholbach> good morning
<Mirv> FYI I've started Qt 5.3 RC "cut all corners" builds now (qt5-daily PPA if anyone interested)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy No Socks Day! :-D
<JamesTait> popey, taking a quick look into Bug #1317233 for you now.
<ubot5> bug 1317233 in Click Package Index "Store only returning 100 results" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317233
<popey> thanks
<JamesTait> I suspect we put a limit on the results - pagination is WIP.
<JamesTait> popey, yep, we have a configurable limit on the default page size that defaults to 100.  Branch to add pagination landed in trunk last night, but isn't in production yet.
<popey> JamesTait: pagination to the backend?
<popey> thats a real shame, it breaks the user experience on the phone, and breaks my script for downloading all clicks - which has been a valuable tool for debugging - multiple times.
<JamesTait> popey, yeah, I think we dropped the ball on this one. :(
<popey> can it be flipped back until all the moving pieces are in place?
<ogra_> yeah, its quite a bad regression
<marcus> hi all. I have installed ubuntu touch on a nexus 4 in dual boot. When I try to install any additional app, I always got an Download Error. Internet connection works fine in general.
<ogra_> which image are you on ? (version number)
<marcus> 303
<marcus> trusty
<mikenagle> mardy: Hi sorry I missed this chat yesterday - was distracted by lots of meetings. The short answer is I don't know. I've asked JohnLea to share the online acocunts spec with me so that I can understand that better. Current thinking is that the scope will have an add account button but we haven't specced that out yet
<mardy> mikenagle: no worries, thanks for coming back :-)
<mardy> mikenagle: we should have a meeting about that on Friday, I'll ask dbarth to invite you as well
<ogra_> pete-woods, you are still working on the hud, right ? (i just noticed that bug 1299806 is not fixed and was actually in the released trusty image too)
<ubot5> bug 1299806 in hud (Ubuntu) "the hud package ships a messed up upstart session job" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299806
<JohnLea> mardy; we will be discussing this at the meeting tomorrow
<JohnLea> mardy; mike already has too many meetings and has got loads of stuff to do, so for meeting tomorrow you will get Yolanda and myself
<pete-woods> ogra_: it's definitely got my attention, I'm going to fix it with an SRU
<JohnLea> mardy; need to cut down on meetings so we can get other dash items finished before malta
<ogra_> pete-woods, well, at least fix it in utopic :) (nobody uses the stable image anyway yet)
<davmor2> Morning all
<mardy> JohnLea: sounds good!
<mandel> sil2100, is there no way to unblock silo 001 to land?
<mandel> sil2100, sorry, good morning ;)
<sil2100> mandel: morning! I was poking some people today about that ;)
<mandel> sil2100, sweet, let me know if you got some info and if you need anything from me
 * Laney types his lastpass-generated-with-loads-of-symbols sso password for the 999th time
<Laney> tedious
<JamesTait> balloons, ping re bug #1317161
<ubot5> bug 1317161 in Click Package Index "Add last_updated field to store json api feed" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317161
<JamesTait> balloons, specifically, do you want this field available in the search results (/api/v1/search) or only in the package detail (/api/v1/package/xxx)?
<popey> sergiusens / asac which image can I expect reminders to be preinstalled in?
<asac> popey: is there no other way to get proper exposure for this app?
<asac> like old fashion blogging etc.?
<sergiusens> asac: why would you not want it in?
<asac> sergiusens: does it fulfill an essential feature that all users of smartphone want to have?
<sergiusens> asac: it's a core app
<asac> that doesnt answer the question :)
<sergiusens> asac: hmm, how about pat asked for it to be in and he owns the apps side?
<asac> right. he said the main reason he wants it in is testing/user exposure
<dednick> anyone? Cannot push /home/nick/.cache/ubuntuimages/ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed/mako/version-17.tar.xz.asc to device: free space on /cache/recovery is file
<asac> sergiusens: anyway, we are talking in management what to do. independent we seem to agree that the name is kind of misleading. no way to find something better?
<asac> stay tuned
 * asac goes lunch
<sergiusens> asac: I really don't mind and don't decide the names ;-)
<sergiusens> or if it goes in; I just let design management tell me about that side
<Mirv> ok, maybe not so "cut all corners" method then
<sergiusens> dednick: if you are flashing for the first time use --bootstrap
<sergiusens> dednick: if you did partition resizing use --bootstrap as well
<dednick> sergiusens: thanks!
 * Laney spanks ofono-phonesim-autostart
<Laney> you bad bad thing
<ogra_> sergiusens, https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/phablet-tools/force-mirscreencast-filename/+merge/218788
<ogra_> fixed phablet-screenshot
<ogra_> popey, was there a bug for the screenshot issue ?
<popey> the what?
<popey> i think they may have undone the 60Hz thing
<popey> mir_screencast_768x1280.rgba is the filename on my latest image
<ogra_> well, i added an MP anyway
<ogra_> that will use a fixed filename no matter how they change the default around
<ogra_> i just thought there was a bug for it
<ogra_> (to include in the MP)
<sergiusens> ogra_: care to link the bug?
<ogra_> just trying to ... LP fails
<ogra_> ah, worked this time
<sergiusens> ogra_: popey I was steaming down before fixing it as I added the last item in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlans/Mir to prevent this :-/
<ogra_> well, with my fix they can change as they like (as long as the -f option persists)
<sergiusens> ogra_: I wish we could see full files on launchpad, now I have to download to recall what $1 was :-P
<ogra_> size
<ogra_> it is handed over to the function from an fbset call
<sergiusens> ogra_: why don't you replace that with $size?
<ogra_> done
<sergiusens> approved
<ogra_> thx
<ogra_> ah, thanks for setting the commit message ... i always forget  that
<ogra_> jhodapp, that media-hub override file we once added to lxc-android-config to set some env vars ... is that still needed ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: is there a way to print inside a shell function?
<ogra_> echo ? printf ?
<sergiusens> ogra_: I think it's saved as a return value
<sergiusens> ogra_: so if exit is called within the function nothing gets echoed
<sergiusens> ogra_: nevermind; I think I have syntax errors :-/
<ogra_> weird, echo should always work
<ogra_> as long as it is run before exit at least
<sergiusens> ogra_: ah, set -e :-)
<ogra_> oh, yeah, sou should always do that :)
<ogra_> *you
 * ogra_ often even uses -eu ... 
<sergiusens> yeah it's eu
<sergiusens> ogra_: can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/screenshot_with_multiple_devices/+merge/218795 ?
<popey> thanks neat
<popey> s/thanks/thats/
<ogra_> sergiusens, why not append SERIAL to ADBOPTS ? i think CI uses the latter
<sergiusens> ogra_: some statements were missing ADBOPTS
<ogra_> well, better ask if they need that before dropping it (though do they use phablet-screenshot at all ?)
<sergiusens> ogra_: I'm mostly sure they also declare ANDROID_SERIAL
<sergiusens> ogra_: it would of failed for them by now :-P
<ogra_> ok
<ogra_> approved
<sergiusens> ogra_: I don't think the use ADBOPTS as if they did phablet-network would fail (it declares it as empty inside)
<ogra_> oh, ok :)
<sergiusens> ogra_: variable name is just a coincidence, I guess they do 'phablet-network $ADBOPTS"
<sergiusens> ogra_: set -e always makes me waste a bit more time than desired :-) shell scripts should print stack traces :-P
<ogra_> set -x
<ogra_> :P
<asac> sergiusens: popey: ok go ahead with reminders
<popey> asac: sergiusens I spoke to pmcgowan about it..
<popey> he suggested we wait until the app has been switched to point to the real evernote server
<popey> rather than the sandbox one
<asac> hmm
<asac> popey: ok let me talk to pat in a bit
<pmcgowan> I did not know one needed to make a special account to use it
<pmcgowan> kindof a barrier to using it
<jhodapp> ogra_, yes still needed
<ogra_> ok
<jhodapp> ogra_, always will be
<ogra_> i thought you ship it with media-hub itslef now
<pmcgowan> asac, I am flexible on it, but I suspect my goal will not be met for having it get used more
<jhodapp> ogra_, oh I see what you're saying, let me check (I didn't add that personally if we do)
<sergiusens> pmcgowan: chicken and egg problems :-)
<pmcgowan> exactly
<pmcgowan> my words to pitkin
<ogra_> jhodapp, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7185378/ was the change
<ogra_> oh, i see, you indeed wouldnt want that on desktop ... so lxc-android-config is the right place
<jhodapp> ogra_, right
<sergiusens> jhodapp: ogra_ we dscussed that, we decided we'd do something similar for powerd where media-hub would detect it's in android; it's probably missing the task for it in our tracker
<asac> pmcgowan: /msg
<ogra_> sergiusens, yeah, i was just going through open tabs in my browser ... i usually keep them open as reminder that there still needs to be done something
<jhodapp> sergiusens, right, though I'd like to see what powerd is doing exactly because the lxc-android-config solution is a good one
<sergiusens> jhodapp: I guess you missed the discussion on reducing overrides on the phone list :-)
<jhodapp> sergiusens, yeah I guess I did
<jhodapp> sergiusens, but that's reducing, doesn't mean eliminate :)
<ogra_> well, it is an android specific override ...
<sergiusens> yeah, this won't break today ;-)
<jhodapp> right
<sergiusens> jhodapp: do you link with hybris?
<ogra_> jhodapp, wow, thats weird, how can resize2fs work without actually having the space allocated on the img ...
<sergiusens> jhodapp: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/powerd/trunk/revision/115#src/powerd.cpp
<jhodapp> ogra_, not sure, rsalveti gave me that trick and ricmm uses it too
 * ogra_ wonders if there isnt just the metadata of the filesystem updated but you dont actually have the extra space
<jhodapp> sergiusens, media-hub doesn't link with hybris, though it might start to with the camera recording addition
<jhodapp> ogra_, no I definitely do :)
<ogra_> weird
<jhodapp> ogra_, I ran out of space before, and then I didn't
<sergiusens> jhodapp: well if you do; you have an easy way to detect androidness ;-)
<ogra_> "The  size  of the filesystem may never be larger than the size of the partition.  If size parameter is not
<ogra_>        specified, it will default to the size of the partition."
<ogra_> jhodapp, ^^^from the manpage ...
<ogra_> so i wonder how that works
<ogra_> also:
<jhodapp> ogra_, lol, I'll leave you to figure that out, I only had time to care that it works :)
<ogra_> "       The resize2fs program does not manipulate the size of partitions.  If you wish to enlarge a filesystem, you must make sure
<ogra_>        you  can expand the size of the underlying partition first. "
<ogra_> so weird
<sergiusens> pmcgowan asac popey feel free to approve https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/click-sync/reminders/+merge/218803 when you want reminders in the image
<jhodapp> thanks sergiusens, I'll take a look at that
<popey> thanks sergiusens
<mterry> ogra_, have you used ofono-phonesim-autostart recently?  Seems to be broken
<ogra_> mterry, our automatic test suite uses it constantly
<ogra_> seems to be broken with messaging-app on flo since the last two images ... mako and manta are fine though
 * ogra_ is waiting for awe to talk about that 
<mterry> ogra_, yesterday and today I flashed a new mako and installed the package, I can't dial 199 anymore to receive a call
<ogra_> mterry, http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/utopic/touch/mako/17:20140508:20140506.1/7915/dialer_app/ ... well ... works fine in the test suite
<mterry> ogra_, hmm...  I wonder if there's some other dep I need
<mterry> My script for sending a fake text also isn't working
<ogra_> (test_incoming is the one that uses the 199 feature)
<mterry> I'll try running the dialer app autopilot.  Presumably it will work
<ogra_> it should :)
<ogra_> else our test suite lies
<tedg> ogra_, So I'm a bit confused when you say "session manager" in your email about full home.
<tedg> ogra_, Do you mean just session configuration?
<ogra_> i mean anything that writes to home on session startup
<ogra_> and yes, i mean a bunch of your upstart jobs too :)
<tedg> ogra_, "our session manager itself as well asâ¦"
<ogra_> right
<tedg> What do you mean by session manager there/
<tedg> ?
<ogra_> ubuntu-touch-session has a bunch of scripts
<ogra_> plus there are the upstart jobs
<tedg> Okay, but none of those are a session manager, right?
<tedg> They're more session init.
<ogra_> and things like autopilot rely on having some info about the system available from files and env vars
<ogra_> well, i mean everything in ubuntu-touch-session plus all jobs in /usr/share/upstart/session/
<tedg> I thought most of ubuntu-touch-session was things that phonedations hadn't gotten around to upstreaming?
 * tedg checks it out
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> there is session-manager-touch ... and usc-wrapper for example
<ogra_> but there are also scripts that write stuff to ~/.bashrc to make certain vars available to the adb shell
<ogra_> dont worry about ubuntu-touch-session, i'm caring for that
<ogra_> but please teake a look at hud and other upstart jobs you own
<tedg> I don't see "session-manager-touch"
<ogra_> was renamed ... but ignore that i'll take care of it
<ogra_> more important is that the upstart jobs get cleaned alongside
<marcus> the indicator besides My Apps points down by default like v - i found that a bit confusing as for me it means all items are shown but here it's the opposite
<ogra_> tedg, it is ubuntu-touch-session nowadays
<ogra_> same as the package name
<tedg> ogra_, The topics here are orthogonal. Sure, handling the full root case is important, but more looking to figure out what you mean by "session manager".
<tedg> ogra_, It seems to me it's more session init.
<ogra_> why do you care
<ogra_> it is the set of scripts being called on initing the session which manages our session startup ... does the naming really matter ?
<tedg> Well, one, it was confusing and I hope to understand how things work. Two, I'm pretty sure we want unity-mir to be our session manager.
<tedg> Session management has a kinda specific meaning.
<tedg> gnome-session, ksession, XSMP, etc.
<ogra_> well, whatever ... i think it is pretty clear from my mail ...
<ogra_> nothing is allowed to write to $HOME for starting the session
<ogra_> while and after ...
<ogra_> no matter how you call it
<tedg> Sure, and that's why I think they're orthogonal topics, but the naming confused me.
<tedg> Also, I think it should be "nothing is allowed to fail on being unable to write," they're allowed to write.
<ogra_> well, we still want a usable session
<ogra_> but yeah
<tedg> ogra_, So are you planning to file bugs on things that don't start? Or have some automated test for this? It seems like something that could easily leak back in.
<ogra_> tedg, not sure how easily we could create tests for that ... for now i will re-work ubuntu-touch-session and then go over the upstart jobs and poke people or file bugs (or both)
<ogra_> we could perhaps add a test where we just chmod -r /home/* or so
<tedg> Yeah, seems that'd find the same bugs. Assuming people don't check for ro ;-)
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> the biggest obstacle atm is dbus here ... it writes a dot file and lots and lots of things already rely on this
<ogra_> so once i move it i'm pretty sure a lot will break
<ogra_> specifically in testing
<tedg> I thought it also pushed then env var into Upstart? Race?
<ogra_> it does both, yeah ...
<ogra_>     echo "DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=${DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS}" >$HOME/.cache/upstart/dbus-session || true
<ogra_>     initctl notify-dbus-address "$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS" || true
<ogra_> effectively ...
<ogra_> though it fails more likely in the pre-start ...
<ogra_> where there is no || true
<tedg> Yeah, and no true on making the cache directory
<ogra_> (though the pre-start uses /tmp ... that should be fine )
<elopio> ping mardy: do you know what can cause a 'Timeout was reached' error on identity.store_credentials_with_info ?
<elopio> that's happening on Jenkins, but everywhere else it seems to work nicely.
<mterry> ogra_, I don't get it.  The dialer-app autopilots seem to do the same thing the ofono script is doing, but one works and the other doesn't
<mardy> elopio: the signond logs from the syslog could be helpful
<mardy> elopio: my first suspicion, is that the gnome-keyring module is installed and signond is waiting on it
<elopio> mardy: I'll see if ci can get them from me.
<elopio> *for
<mardy> elopio: actually, I think that from the build logs it should be possible to see if the keyring was being installed
<awe_> mterry, what's the issue you're having with ofono?
<elopio> mardy: http://91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-utopic/45/artifact/dpkg-l.post.log
<ogra_> mterry, hehe, ask pitti ... he developed the ofono-phonesim stuff and the tests too iirc
<ogra_> awe_, hey ...
<mterry> awe_, I can't get the test scripts that fake incoming calls or texts to work.  They used to, but they don't for me right now.  Despite dialer-app tests working
<elopio> mardy: so, we shouldn't install the gnome-keyring  ?
<ogra_> awe_, so after the ofono landing messaging-app fails reliably on flo ... could you take a look at that ? (worked before the change)
<ogra_> awe_, http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/utopic/touch/flo/17:20140508:20140506.1/7914/messaging_app/
<ogra_> (not super urgent since we dont block landings on flo issues ... but should be fixed nontheless)
<awe_> ogra_, flo doesn't have a modem, correct?
<ogra_> awe_, right
<awe_> ogra_, I don't have a flo to test
<ogra_> but phonesim already had changed before ...
<ogra_> so only the ofono change seems to have caused this
<mardy> elopio: yes, or at least remove signon-keyring-extension -- I wonder what's pulling that in?
<mterry> ogra_, do you use the incoming call/text scripts yourself?
<mterry> sory
<mterry> awe_, ^ is what I meant
<awe_> ogra_, the only thing I can think of is that this is a result of the changes made to phonesim by  Wellark's team
<ogra_> awe_, but these had landed before and the tests didnt fail
<awe_> what do you mean "landed before"?
<davmor2> ogra_: is there a reason why we run the phone tests on a tablet?
<elopio> mardy: that comes installed on the machine. But I also have it on my desktop, and it doesn't cause any problems here.
<awe_> haha
 * awe_ hugs davmor2
<ogra_> awe_, phonesim is in the image since a week, but the failing started yesterday (on the last two images)
<awe_> that said, the messaging app might use other back-ends at some point
<awe_> ogra_, no you misunderstood me
<ogra_> awe_, aha
<ogra_> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-touch-flo-smoke-daily/31/artifact/clientlogs/messaging_app/_usr_share_ofono_scripts_list-modems.32011.crash/*view*/
<ogra_> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.ofono was not provided by any .service files
<ogra_> there we go
<ogra_> davmor2, i dont know, i dont define which tests we run where :)
<awe_> ogra_, that just means ofono isn't running, and dbus activation can't start it
<ogra_> but the test passed before and fails since yesterday
<ogra_> awe_, and ofono wont start if there is no ril ;)
<ogra_> as per our changes
<ogra_> before it still started but didnt attach to a non-existing ril
<rsalveti> morning
<awe_> ogra_, hmmm
<ogra_> same thing on manta btw ...
 * awe_ takes a look at the ofono-phonesim package
<awe_> give me a few minutes to dig here
<awe_> ogra_, that said, I agree with davmor2 that we shouldn't be running tests that rely on 'list-modems' on devices that don't have any modems
<ogra_> awe_, well, might be ... that would be up to QA and CI to decide/discuss i think
<awe_> also ogra_ I thought prior to this change, ofono would exit if no ril
<ogra_> awe_, though it worked fine before
<elopio> mardy: unity-control-center-signon is the one that depends on it.
<mardy> elopio: yes, because on the desktop it works fine. I wonder on the CI bots, though...
<ogra_> -phonesim-autostart should probably froce ofono to start now or some such
<awe_> ogra_, well... I guess I need to change the test plan to require running autopilot tests on all devices
<ogra_> i dont think ofono exited
<mardy> elopio: the keyring gets automatically unlocked by lightdm when you log in, IIRC
<awe_> I do
<ogra_> ok
<mardy> elopio: I wonder how the login works in the bots
<awe_> but whatever give me some time to investigate
<davmor2> ogra_: but it works fine now on mako right?
<ogra_> awe_, as i said, no hurry :) we dont block on flo issues
<elopio> mardy: ok, I'm going to ci to ask.
<awe_> ogra_, the old script definitely exits if it can't verify the existence of the socket
<ogra_> davmor2, yes, that didnt change ... dialer on flo wroks too, just messaging stopped
<ogra_> awe_, hmm, i guess then phonesim-autostart handled it differently
<ogra_> providing a fake ofono dbus service or some such
<nik90> tvoss: ping
<tvoss> nik90, pong
<nik90> tvoss: Hi, I wanted to talk to you about https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/platform-api/hw-alarms-api/+merge/210592
<ogra_> land it !!!
<tvoss> nik90, yup, what do you need?
<nik90> tvoss: When can we expect that to be merged? I understand that is the MP which will allow alarms to ring when the phone is in deep sleep. right?
 * ogra_ wants his screen to turn on when an alarm rises 
<nik90> tvoss: and what ogra_ said ^^
<tvoss> nik90, it will wake up the phone, yes
<ogra_> current behavior is utterly annoying
<cwayne> popey, ping
<tvoss> nik90, ogra_ sure, fully understand that :) it's mostly done, shared a custom system.img with charles for testing purposes
<nik90> tvoss: charles just informed me that it will land coming mon or tues
<popey> cwayne: pong
<tvoss> nik90, yup
<nik90> tvoss: that's really comforting to hear. The earlier that is in the better alarm testing I can do in real life :0
<nik90> :)
<cwayne> popey, hey, what're the plans for core apps to switch to the new headers once they land?
<popey> cwayne: wanted to test with one app first to iron out some of the bugs, music already switched
<popey> cwayne: music app devs have been working with tim p on it.
<popey> cwayne: I didn't want to break every single app at once.
<popey> cwayne: music apps have a backwards compatible method, which means you get old toolbar on 14.04 and new toolbar on 14.10
<cwayne> popey, perfect, what about the calendar app?
<popey> that could be next.
<popey> I'll take a look
<popey> also, clock, nik90 might be interested in that. â»
<cwayne> popey, for the music one, did they literally just set useDeprecatedToolbar to false, or are they implementing bottom swipe as well?
<popey> no bottom swipes yet
<cwayne> so just moving actions from toolbar to header?
<popey> yes
<cwayne> cool beans
<cwayne> thanks popey
<cwayne> is that in the image already?
<nik90> popey,cwayne: Well I am interested in transitioning the clock app to use the new headers
<popey> nik90: seen https://code.launchpad.net/~vthompson/music-app/use-sdk-back-button-take2/+merge/218534 ?
<popey> cwayne: music is
<nik90> popey, cwayne: I think it should be a relatively simple task. But I need to first wait on the MP which adds toolbars actions to the header first before doing this.
<nik90> popey: no I just saw it now...t1mp has made it really easy to transition to it.
<ogra_> bah .. new header ... that thing that drives me back to android :(
<bact> header?
<ogra_> yeah, the bottom toolbar is gone soon
<bact> the one which required a guesture?
<ogra_> and moves to a new header bar ... which in turn means your back button is at the top left
<bact> Cool, that sounds better
<popey> Uh oh, don't get him started
<ogra_> might sound nice but is completely unusable with one hand
<popey> HULK SMASH!
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> unless you have a 10cm long thumb
<davmor2> popey: that's just daft if you have hands the size of the hulk you have no issue
<ogra_> true !
<popey> I doubt the hulk spends much of his day daintily pressing buttons on a touch screen
<cwayne> works for me with one hand
<davmor2> cwayne: ditto
<ogra_> cwayne, you can reach the search option (or close below) when holding your phone with one hand ?
<davmor2> cwayne: I think ogra_ just needs a lesson in how to hold a phone ;)
<ogra_> well, i hold it so that it cant slip while walking
<ogra_> bottom right corner pinting into my palm
<cwayne> yeah
<ogra_> then i can reach with my thump to about 2/3 from the bottom of the screen
<ogra_> about 3cm below where i need to reach
<bact> ogra_: don't buy a 6" phone then
<ogra_> bact, i only use the one phone we support
<ogra_> and the ones we will sell arent smaller
<bact> sell a smaller one
<bact> phones are too big, if anyone could buck the trend, canonical could
<ogra_> there is a certain radius you can reach with your thumb no matter how you hold the phone ... within that radius the most important functions need to be reachable imho
<bact> yeah, that's what all the apple fans were saying when apple were still producing 3.5" phones admist 5" androids
<dpm>  Hi all, so I've installed image #17 using the dual boot app (as I usually do). The result is that I've got a completely blank dash - no scopes shown at all. Any ideas on how to debug that?
<dpm> mhr3, perhaps you would know how to bring scopes back to life? :-)
<mhr3> dpm, ps aux | grep scoper
<mhr3> dpm, cat ~/.cache/upstart/scope-registry.log
<dpm> mhr3, aha -> scoperegistry: locale::facet::_S_create_c_locale name not valid
<mhr3> dpm, `/sbin/initctl list-env | grep L[CA]` ?
<dpm> mhr3, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7416574/ - hm, I wonder why I get two different locales
<dpm> I've changed it now via system settings
<dpm> to be en_US
<dpm> rebooting now to see if that fixes it
<mhr3> it will
<mhr3> the adb locale doesn't matter really
<mhr3> the upstart one counts
<dpm> mhr3, indeed it's fixed. I'm still not sure I can follow the difference between adb locale and upstart locale, though...
<mhr3> dpm, the real question is why doesn't it like your locale
<mhr3> pete-woods, it's because of the frickin boost::filesystem :P
<pete-woods> mhr3: :(
<dpm> mhr3, it was because it's not installed by default: I had to set the image to RW and run locale-gen. It seems the image update removed the locale, but the environment variables were still set, pointing to a locale that no longer existed
<mhr3> dpm, what does locale-gen do?
<dpm> mhr3, it essentially creates the locale. It compiles a bunch of files into what the system recognizes as a locale
<loicm> mardy: hey, I've just reviewed your patch for the ubuntu shape
<loicm> mardy: https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/lp1296728/+merge/218617
<mhr3> dpm, i still fail to see why should boost fail to work when that isn't generated
<dpm> no idea
<slangasek> ogra_: +1 for avoiding writes to $HOME from the jobs!  I think a lot of these were workarounds for upstart bugs that should now be fixed; maybe they can just go away now?
<ogra_> slangasek, right, now it bites back ... u knew it would one day ;)
<ogra_> *i knew
<ogra_> so until malta i'll start a big claen sweep ... (there are other ugly bits like pre filling /etc/environment at build time etc(
<popey> JamesTait: i hear there was a private branch on the bug i filed about 100 apps returned?
<popey> JamesTait: does that mean we will now get more than 100 returned?
<JamesTait> popey, not by default, but when the branch lands you'll be able to specify a page size.
<JamesTait> popey, /api/v1/search?size=9999&page=1
<ogra_> JamesTait, would it be possible to coordinate such changes with the client side in the future ? we were even discussion to block image promotions on that today, thats a pretyt gross regression
<ogra_> *discussing
<JamesTait> ogra_, ordinarily we would have done, but this change was pushed out on Tuesday morning, when I was returning from two weeks' holiday. ;)
<ogra_> heh, ok :)
<JamesTait> ogra_, literally as I sat down to work, in fact. :-P
<ogra_> yeah, no worries then, sh*t happens ;)
<mardy> loicm: thanks!
<zyga> ogra_: bad irc server ;-)
<ogra_> heh
<zyga> ogra_: so how do I run qmlscene on the tablet after I've adb-d in?
<ogra_> heh, i never did that ... for UI stuff probably try #ubuntu-app-devel ... there are the qmlscene masters :)
<ogra_> (not true, i didnt that once in quantal ... but forgot how ... today i just roll myself a click package)
<ogra_> *i did
<zyga> ogra_: I've made the filesystem writable and I just want to hack around a simple qml file and a way to run it
<ogra_> yes, i understand what you want but i dont know anymore how to do it that way
<zyga> ogra_: sorry, I don't complain :-)
<ogra_> :)
<zyga> ogra_: I'm just thinking aloud while googling and checking sdk docs
<ogra_> theoretically just qmlscene /path/to/qml.qml
<ogra_> probably you need to use --desktop_file_hint= and point that to some random .desktop file
<ogra_> and in any case you need to be the pahblet user "sudo -u phablet -i" will give you the proper env
<zyga> ogra_: qmlscene: could not exec '/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt4/bin/qmlscene': No such file or directory
<zyga> ogra_: that's as phablet
<ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ which qmlscene
<ogra_> /usr/bin/qmlscene
<ogra_> weird
<zyga> yeah
<zyga> could it be apparmor preventing me to execute stuff?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> not from commandline
<zyga> oh, it's a symlink to qtchooser
<zyga> why did it try to run qt4? IIRC we're on qt5 right?
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_>  /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/bin/qmlscene ...
<zyga> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7416972/
<ogra_> try the path above
<zyga> same
<ogra_> with the qt5 path ?
<zyga> I think it crashes because it cannot create 'application instance'
<zyga> yeah
<zyga> this is on 'devel' version, flashed a moment ago
<ogra_> strange ... well, as i said, i dont do much Qt ... #ubuntu-app-devel might knwo
<zyga> thanks
<ogra_> (well, i do Qt but click packages just work)
<davmor2> pmcgowan: the scopes carousel does that fall under unity8 for a bug report?
<pmcgowan> davmor2, I would say yes
<davmor2> pmcgowan: email sent to the phone mailing list with regard to the issues I hit on manta then
<davmor2> pmcgowan: title is Quirks particular to manta (nexus 10)
<pmcgowan> davmor2, ok will check it out
<sergiusens> ogra_: zyga QT_SELECT=qt5 iirc
<dobey> is there any way for an app to prevent screen lock/blank under mir on the phone?
<popey> ooh, I'd like that.
<popey> I want this app on Ubuntu https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.doublep.wakey
<dobey> ugh
<dobey> i just want proper support for having apps keep the screen from blanking
<dobey> i mean, i can do it with xorg on my workstation without problem
<popey> well, media-app can do it, see how that does it? â»
<dobey> of course, firefox/chrome don't do it magically when i'm in a hangout or anything, which is a bit annoying, but at least the support is there
 * popey pokes jhodapp 
<dobey> oh it does?
<popey> sorry, mediaplayer-app, yes, it does now
<jhodapp> popey, ouch
<popey> \o/
<dobey> i don't have any videos on my phone, so all i get is an ugly error when i open it
<jhodapp> dobey, yes, if you use MediaPlayer from your app (QML or Qt components), it'll play video and keep the screen from blanking or locking
<dobey> and it calls the scope a lens
<jhodapp> dobey, it'll be getting some love...it's a neglected app
<jhodapp> dobey, it was one of the very first UT apps
<dobey> jhodapp: well i'm not wanting to play video, but if i can poke at the source, and can actually do the same thing from my own app under confinement, i'm happy ot have that be an answer for now
<jhodapp> dobey, sorry, what is it that you want to do exactly?
<dobey> jhodapp: a map app for a game
<jhodapp> dobey, ah ok, that's out of the scope of media-hub then
<dobey> yeah
<jhodapp> dobey, you should ping mandel on how to accomplish that, he's taking on powerd
<popey> jhodapp: i was more poking you because you know how to keep the screen on when your app is running
<jhodapp> popey, yeah, it's not my app, it's media-hub which has permission to do that :)
<popey> oh
<popey> bummer
<jhodapp> popey, I'm not sure how a random app will accomplish that
<jhodapp> but mandel should be able to help with that
<dobey> oh
<dobey> doea media-hub support mp4?
<popey> dobey: i test touch with mp4 videos, and they work
<popey> dobey: h264 encoded ones specifically
<dobey> oh
<sergiusens> popey: keeping the screen on is for a trusted helper only afaik
<slangasek> rsalveti: why did Package: libqt5multimediawidgets5-gles add a Pre-Depends on dpkg that libqt5multimediawidgets5 doesn't have?
<rsalveti> slangasek: there was a new package update that removed that line yesterday
<slangasek> rsalveti: ok
<rsalveti> but I didn't yet updated the package because I wanted the review to happen first
 * slangasek nods
<dobey> sergiusens: oh? ugh :(
<slangasek> rsalveti: your qtubuntu-gles upload didn't drop the Vcs-Bzr field, most of the uploads did?
<rsalveti> slangasek: yeah, let me write that down so I can fix during next upload
<rsalveti> it seems that's the last src package in the queue
<rsalveti> but then needs to wait for bin approval as well
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> rsalveti: why make a separate qtubuntu-android-gles?  Why shouldn't this take over the qtubuntu-android package name completely?
<slangasek> (are we going to have OpenGL android builds on x86?)
<rsalveti> slangasek: the problem is that qtubuntu uses a static library from qt, available in qt5-private-dev
<rsalveti> bundles that inside it's own shared library
<rsalveti> so it needs to be built against the right qt version
<slangasek> ok; but why do we need both qtubuntu-android and qtubuntu-android-gles?
<rsalveti> so if I build against qt5-gles, then qtubuntu-desktop will be broken
<rsalveti> we don't
<rsalveti> we just need one qtubuntu-android
<rsalveti> I can probably remove it from the older package
<rsalveti> and rename this one
<slangasek> right; that's what I'm arguing for
<rsalveti> but that needs to happen only when building for !armhf
<rsalveti> so that's why I thought it'd be easier to just have another bin for it
<rsalveti> but I can rework this
<slangasek> ok - it's certainly allowed to have one binary package built from two different source packgaes
<rsalveti> yeah
<rsalveti> will change that
<slangasek> and I think that's preferable here; can you sort that out and re-upload, so that we don't have qtubuntu-android-gles in binary NEW?
<rsalveti> slangasek: yup
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> rsalveti: doing the binary NEW now; FYI: E: libqt5quickparticles5-gles: malformed-override Possibly wrong package in override at line 3 (got libqt5quickparticles5, expected libqt5quickparticles5-gles)
<rsalveti> thanks
<slangasek> sergiusens: the latest nuntium changes LGTM.  Does this need sponsored to the NEW queue?   BTW, have you checked how nuntium fares in terms of memory usage when built with gccgo - since that's an ongoing area of concern?
<sergiusens> slangasek: that's a task I have set for tomorrow AM; this app is very small and not as resource intensive as juju though
<sergiusens> slangasek: if you have time for sponsoring, that's good, but I can also ask ogra_ in the AM tomorrow as well
<miky_> hello
<miky_> is anyone there?
<miky_> hey
<miky_> you are sleeping?
<vthompson> The new Mir on Utopic on my N4 seems to have broken my screenshooter script and the functionality in qtcreator doesn't  work either. Anyone have an updated script?
<ahayzen_> vthompson, there was an issue where it adds _60hz to the file path try this script Alan gave me http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7418739/
<vthompson> ahayzen_, woot that worked! Thanks!
<ahayzen_> vthompson, \o/
<ahayzen_> vthompson, resolved the conflicts, pull if ur brave ;) https://code.launchpad.net/~music-app-dev/music-app/use-mediascanner2.0
<vthompson> ahayzen_, well pulling's the easy part. I'll test when I'm feeling brave enough ;)
<ahayzen_> vthompson, hehe
#ubuntu-touch 2014-05-09
<petri4kov> hi all
<petri4kov> anyone here deep enough in understanding ubuntu touch, and doesn't mind telling what is left to be done in the whole system?
<petri4kov> I have a university project which must include the future plans for ubuntu touch
<RAOF> petri4kov: Hm, what do you mean?
<petri4kov> well
<petri4kov> I'm not really sure myself
<petri4kov> but I must write about what is to happen with ubuntu touch in the future
<petri4kov> in developer point of view
<petri4kov> let's say for example, implement that or this
<RAOF> Well, a bunch of stuff is on blueprints.launchpad.net.
<RAOF> And there's stuff like the core-apps stuff on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps
<petri4kov> well
<petri4kov> core apps is just another section of the project
<petri4kov> this one is for future development plans
<petri4kov> i looked over the stuff at launchpad
<petri4kov> seems like a really big bunch of stuff
<petri4kov> :D
<petri4kov> I gave it deeper look now
<petri4kov> It seems like it will do a part of the job
<petri4kov> :)
<kenvandine> petri4kov, another suggestion would be to hang out in #ubuntu-touch-meeting on fridays
<kenvandine> there are a series of meetings on each of the core apps
<kenvandine> to discuss status
<rsalveti> slangasek: uploaded a new qtubuntu-gles and we also should have the remaining bins in new as well
<kenvandine> petri4kov, i don't have the full schedule, but i know the trojita developers meet at 1300 UTC tomorrow
<petri4kov> kenvandine, thanks that would be really helpful, but unforutnately I have to pass the paper on saturday
<petri4kov> :D
<kenvandine> petri4kov, so you could just watch what they discuss to get an idea of what still needs to be done
<kenvandine> ok
<petri4kov> as always in the last minute
<kenvandine> it a pretty broad topic to get a handle on quickly
<RAOF> #ubuntu-touch is presumably logged?
<petri4kov> yeah
<kenvandine> oh right
<kenvandine> you could read the logs for last weeks meetings
<kenvandine> the meetings are in #ubuntu-touch-meeting
<petri4kov> for now I need to generalize what needs to be done
<petri4kov> like I can think of not draining battery power so qiuckly
<petri4kov> I will give those log a shot
<petri4kov> *logs
<techdoc> Hi, I'm trying to boot my phone into the bootloader, but for some reason it does not want to do that.
<techdoc> does anyone of you know what might be causing this?
<slangasek> sergiusens: nuntium sponsored/accepted
<dholbach> good morning
<trupti> in Your first Autopilot test, I am unable to install  libautopilot-qt python-autopilot
<trupti> i am using ubuntu 12.04
<popey> mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Sound#Phone seems to have no options for setting alarm / notification sounds which are not text messages, e.g. for clock. Is that something which should be in there, or should be in-app?
<mpt> popey, thatâs a good question. I donât know.
<mpt> Normally Iâd say thatâs a per-app setting. But for sounds in particular it may be useful to see them listed together, so that you can (for example) make sure you arenât using the same sound effect for two unrelated things.
<popey> on iOS it's all in one place - "Sounds" for baked in apps.
<popey> but each app also has its own settings.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Lost Sock Memorial Day! :-D
<mardy> loicm: hi! I updated https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/lp1296728/+merge/218617
<Sossiger> hi
<Sossiger> hello katie
<Sossiger> nice everybody is very talkative here
<mandel> Elleo, because the other branches are waiting for approval I have decide to request a silo just with the qml change, as soon as it is created and tested I'll let you know
<Elleo> mandel: okay, thanks
<popey> mpt: the reason I ask is that we're currently using the ringtone, which is confusing, can nik90 (clock dev) get guidance on where the setting should go?
<ogra_> is it actually the ringtone ? i thought it is "a ringtone" not even from the set of rigtones from the phone
<nik90> ogra_: I thought the alarm ringtone was the same as when receiving a call, no?
<nik90> ogra_: atm we are discussing with mpt where the setting to change the alarm "sound" should go..in the settings app or the clock app
<ogra_> well, it surely isnt the same for me but i think my system isnt default anymore
<mpt> popey, nik90: I suggest putting it in the clock app for now. But remember, where the setting should go is a different issue from the default being confusing.
<nik90> mpt: agreed they are two different issues
<nik90> mpt: should each alarm be given the ability to choose their ringtone or do we go with one sound for all alarms?
<mpt> nik90, a separate sound for each alarm would be useful. The alarm to wake me up may be more strident than the alarm reminding me to take my painkillers. :)
<ogra_> nik90, btw, a way to make the alarm go off *before* the actual appointment time wuld be very helpful too
 * ogra_ perfers to be notified 5min before a meeting starts 
<nik90> mpt: ok
<nik90> ogra_: hmm I think that should be a calendar app feature and not the clock..to provide a way to remind about an appointment few minutes before
<nik90> ogra_: I don't think you would want alarms to do that
<ogra_> oh, right, i thought you talk about calendar
<nik90> clock
<ogra_> yeah, sorry
<nik90> np
<ogra_> alarms are perfectly fine when they are on time :)
<nik90> ogra_: :) I would be angry if my alarms woke me up 15 minutes earlier than the intended time
<ogra_> hehe
<nik90> popey: ok so that is settled..I will add the ability to set the alarm sound in the "add alarm page"...if the user doesn't choose anything it will default to the system ringtone.
<popey> great
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> i cant find any tone that even matches what i hear on alarms
<ogra_> (or calendar notifications)
<ogra_> i wonder where that tune even comes from ... it surely isnt in the list to select from
<nik90> ogra_: You will have to ask charles then where he chose that sound then :)
<ogra_> probably someting some Qt module ships or so
<popey> nik90: src/snap.cpp:#define ALARM_SOUND_FILENAME "/usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/stereo/phone-incoming-call.ogg"
<popey> hard wired in indicator-datetime
<ogra_> hmm, why is that sound not in the list
<popey> nik90: so maybe file a bug in clock with a task on i-d
<popey> as that will need changing
<ogra_> (not that i'm eager to use that awful sound though)
<nik90> ogra_: If I vaguely remember, that's not the folder the settings app displays for the list of ringtones
<ogra_> yeah
<nik90> popey: ok..will create a bug
<popey> nice one
<ogra_> well, we shouldnt ship it if you cant use it
<ogra_> just wastes space
<seb128> the fact that it's not used by the settings doesn't mean that the package is useless
<seb128> we need to check if any of the sounds shipped in the binary is used by code we run
<ogra_> indeed
<nik90> seb128: was it you or someone else who did the sound listing in the UI? Just asking so that I could follow a similar approach in the clock app.
<seb128> nik90, me
<nik90> seb128: is it possible to list the files using pure QML? Or do I need to add a C++ plugin?
<seb128> nik90, no need of cpp iirc
<nik90> seb128: ok..I will be most likely listing the ringtones in an option selector using http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qml-folderlistmodel.html
<seb128> right
<seb128> nik90, but ringtones might not be what you want to list
<ogra_> yeah, notification sounds rather
<nik90> seb128: true..I need to first look at all the sound folders available and choose the correct one
<seb128> well, notifications are not great either
<seb128> they are the messages' sound
<seb128> usually quite short, not mean to loop either
<seb128> ideally we would get some alarm sounds
<ogra_> true
<nik90> seb128: where can I find the sound folders? On my trusty machine, I went to /usr/share/sounds
<nik90> seb128: however I cannot findn the phone ringtones there
<nik90> seb128: basically I need to show the same sounds folder that is present on the phone and the desktop
<seb128> nik90, that's the correct folder
<nik90> seb128: otherwise the clock app wont work on the desktop
<seb128> well, expect it has subdirs
<nik90> it has ubuntu, alsa, freedesktop
<nik90> the ubuntu folder has only the folder stereo
<nik90> inside which are the ringtones that are not shown on the phone
<seb128> nik90, right, stereo is the old desktop set of sounds
<ogra_> nik90, i see a ringtones and a notifications folder
<seb128> notification/ringtone are the new ones we got for touch
<ogra_> next to "stereo"
<seb128> ogra_, those are not on desktop atm
<ogra_> ah, right
<seb128> but we can install ubuntu-touch-sounds on the desktop iso
<nik90> seb128, ogra_: Is there a package that I can add as a dependency to the clock app to have the phone ringtones installed on the desktop as well?
<seb128> ^
<nik90> seb128: ok..I think that's the best solution
<seb128> well, "best"
<seb128> those sounds are still not good ones for alarms
<ogra_> well, and make someone add an alarms dir to that  package too ;)
<nik90> for now*
<seb128> I don't want a ringtone or a sms sound to wake up
<nik90> ogra_: yes...I will request popey to talk to the design team for that
<seb128> +1
<seb128> we should also talk to mpt about getting a design to import custom sounds
<ogra_> ++
<seb128> I know kenvandine said he wanted to look at that
<nik90> +
<seb128> we can import through the content-hub, we just need a design for the workflow
<ogra_> and we need some click package design so devs can provide "soundtheme" packages too
<nik90> ooh I get to play with content-hub then..awesome
<ogra_> and wallpaper collections :)
<ogra_> (or rather lockscreen collectios since you cant change the wallapaer anymore)
<seb128> speaking of which, we need to update the settings
<seb128> we are sure than the ability to customize the bg is not coming back?
<ogra_> yeah :(
<seb128> Laney emailed Mark about it, but no news since
<ogra_> i think you will still be able
<ogra_> but it only will shine through in the small stripe between header and app content
<ogra_> pretty useless imho
<nik90> ah :(
<seb128> :/
<ogra_> (at least that is what i was told when i asked)
<Laney> haha
<seb128> it would be nice to be able to have the bg of the lenses as an image
<nik90> it would have been nice to have a blurred user background shown in the dash..but too bad
<Laney> I don't think it's the end of the matter
<ogra_> well, ask design, i'm probably not up to date with that
<ogra_> but it came up in my ranting thread about the back button placement on the ml
<seb128> design keep changing their mind on lot of topics
<seb128> so let's see
 * ogra_ wishes theyy would change it for the back button :P )
<nik90> lol
<Laney> I talked to Rick about it and he said it'd be easier to resolve that in person so we can raise it at the sprint
<ogra_> fistfights !
<seb128> k
<mpt> Pillow fights!
<ogra_> (with fluffy gloves indeed)
<seb128> the pillow ideas seems a better one ;-)
<ogra_> less damage you think ?
<ogra_> :)
<seb128> well, depends who is on the other side :p
<ogra_> haha, yeah
<ogra_> dbarth, did you see my last comment on bug 1307533 ?
<ubot5> bug 1307533 in Canonical Click Reviewers tools "[Deprecation notice] cordova-ubuntu-2.8" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307533
<Saviq> popey, can you give an update on your workitem in  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1410-suru-icon-switch ?
<popey> ya
<ogra_> dbarth, my understanding is that as long as we support the 13.10 framework cordova-2.8 must stay (or we need to drop the framework support from the image alongside) ... at least thats how i understood people like lool and cjwatson when this was discussed
<dbarth> ogra_: technically that's corect, ie (codova 2.8 was part of 13.10)
<ogra_> right, so technically we guarantee that apps built on 13.10 still work
<ogra_> (i personally think we should drop the ancient framework)
<ogra_> (especially since Qt 5.2 will make using it in native apps impossible too)
<dbarth> ogra_: in practice there are 3 apps that linked (without knowing) with cordova
<ogra_> right, but i think we need to stick to our promises or adjust for reality
<ogra_> either is fine
<ogra_> lool, ^^^
<ogra_> (though i personally own a few webapps that only work with webkit ... i wouldnt want to drop them if we drop 13.10 ... but they wont work with oxide )
<dbarth> they wont?
<ogra_> oSoMoN, did you notice that the text in the URL bar of the browser is not centered anymoe ?
<ogra_> dbarth, nope
<dbarth> ogra_: do you bugs for that?
<ogra_> they are games and the website they are on behaves weird when it detects aa proper browser ... not an issue on our side ... it tries to bomb you with ads that break the game
<Stskeeps> w00t
<Stskeeps> err.. ignore me
 * ogra_ tries hard ... 
<ogra_> :P
<loicm> mardy: hey, that looks perfect to me, have you tried on the phone with the plugin installed to see if the shell and apps work the same?
<loicm> mardy: have you also tried with an app using 2 windows (QQuickViews)? IIRC telephony-app does that
<oSoMoN> ogra_, you mean vertically centered, right?
<mardy> loicm: I didn't try the latest changes on the phone, I'll do it now
<ogra_> oSoMoN, yeah
<oSoMoN> ogra_, youâre right, good catch, I hadnât noticed
<oSoMoN> ogra_, mind filing a bug?
<ogra_> it is a few pixels up
<ogra_> will do
<oSoMoN> thx
<loicm> mardy: I'll try too during the afternoon
<ogra_> minor issue :)
<ogra_> hmm
 * ogra_ notes that typing "bugs" into firefox' URL bar immediately gets me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+filebug
<ogra_> i guess i file to many bugs against that package :P
<mardy> loicm: do you know how I can trigger the opening of the second window of telephony-app?
<mardy> loicm: ah, it's open already :-)
<mardy> loicm: yep, everything seems fine
<ogra_> oSoMoN, bug 1317866
<ubot5> bug 1317866 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu) "text in browser URL bar is vertically off" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317866
<ogra_> mzanetti, oh, wow, i wouldnt have though that there was no bug for a low battery popup yet !
<Mirv> jhodapp|afk: how's GStreamer 1.0 for Qt 5.3, would you like to offer some patches that you're going offer upstream, or is the plan still to keep the qtmultimedia-touch around?
<loicm> mardy: I'm not sure, boiko and renato might know (but they're not connected)
<mzanetti> ogra_: yeah... me neither... but seems so
<Mirv> jhodapp|afk: it looks like sadly at the moment I need to compile also Qt 5.3's Multimedia part with GSt 0.10
<mardy> loicm: nevermind, I just noticed that the second window opens as soon as you open the contacts
<loicm> mardy: alright :) then I'll try and approve during the afternoon
<loicm> mardy: thanks for the changes
<jhodapp> Mirv, we aren't using qtmultimedia-touch packages anymore
<jhodapp> Mirv, upstream has my changes and there's been a little bit of work with them, but not much...it's totally in upstream's hands to bring that to an official release
<Mirv> jhodapp: if it's not in https://codereview.qt-project.org/ it should be proposed properly
<Mirv> jhodapp: regarding -touch, oh right, I forgot about that media-hub replaced it for our purposes. is it truly so that all the core media playing stuff we have is now media-hub only, no qtmultimedia used?
<Mirv> that lessens the priority of it, although we still support qtmultimedia for apps and probably would need to get rid of GStreamer 0.10
<pmcgowan> Mirv, my understanding is we access media hub via qtmultimedia jhodapp?
<jhodapp> Mirv, it is in codereview on qt
<jhodapp> pmcgowan, we do, but just the QML interface classes
<pmcgowan> jhodapp, got it
<jhodapp> Mirv, we no longer use any of their backends having to do with gstreamer, merely high level control interfaces which call into qtubuntu-media (this is what calls into media-hub)
<Mirv> jhodapp: right, good to know. so there's wip/gstreamer-1.0 based on the stuff you did earlier, but it did not see much work for some time
<Mirv> but latest work is from 3 weeks ago https://codereview.qt-project.org/#change,83406 so it's possible the branch could be eventually merged for Qt 5.4
<jhodapp> right exactly, I have no idea why it's not a high priority other than there's only one person paid by Digia to work on QtMultimedia
<Mirv> that probably goes a long way, plus that GStreamer is only used on Linux and their biggest paying customers are probably app devs on other platforms
<jhodapp> Mirv, yes that's definitely part of it, the QtMultimedia developer has mostly been focusing on Windows Mobile lately
<Mirv> (well I don't really know but the combined effect is probably that it's not a nr. 1 priority)
<jhodapp> Mirv, indeed
<Mirv> well, we need to mostly revisit it in case foundations teams want to get rid of GStreamer 0.10 for 14.10, which at this rate won't happen
<jhodapp> Mirv, it wouldn't be that much more work to finish that WIP branch off...I wish someone could get some time to do it
<jhodapp> Mirv, we really shouldn't be using GStreamer 0.10 anymore...it's very antiquated
<jhodapp> anyway, brb
<Mirv> first bugs tagged 'qt5.3' filed, thanks to some quick/dirty RC builds I now have for the first modules. a good way to end a week.
<pmcgowan> Mirv, hey, you have 5.3 starting?
<pmcgowan> Mirv, was just thinking about getting a test image going
<Mirv> pmcgowan: yeah, I started now that upstream got RC sources out. there's even a beginning of a Landing Plan to execute :) https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjuCdq68GSyVdFI4QzNQdWpfME5aMEV2VXo0cUpOMkE#gid=20
<ogra_> pmcgowan, thats for after RTM, right ?
<pmcgowan> ogra_, thats a good question
<pmcgowan> I was just reviewing the 5.3 release notes
 * ogra_ guesses we should first get finished what we have before starting massively big transitions
<pmcgowan> I could see skipping 5.3
<Mirv> in the end, when all is ready, it comes down to whether dogfooders claim 5.2 or 5.3 a better experience
<pmcgowan> Mirv, yes, we want to do this process for sure, glad to see the plan
<pmcgowan> Mirv, which sprint week are you attending?
<Mirv> pmcgowan: I was now moved to the first one
<ogra_> well, we wont have the time to fix the RTM images anymore if it comes to late and ships any bugs
<pmcgowan> Mirv, oh good,
<pmcgowan> ogra_, agreed
<pmcgowan> Mirv, I have an item on the agenda
<ogra_> sergiusens, how about seeding nuntium ?
<ogra_> (or did you want furter tests first)
<sergiusens> ogra_: the source has been newed, not the binaries ;-)
<ogra_> ah, k
<mterry> dednick, what's the landing plan for the laggy indicator-sound fix?
 * mterry just realized it hadn't landed yet
<charles> nik90, ogra_: about the alarm's audio tone, https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-datetime/+bug/1309063
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1309063 in Indicator Date and Time "It's confusing to use the Incoming Call sound for Alarms" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<charles> nik90, ogra_: If you have a replacement I'd love to use it :-)
<nik90> charles: I will have to try out a couple of sound files to figure what the best and recommend that to mpt
<charles> nik90, that would be great :-)
<ogra_> charles, http://soundbible.com/free-sound-effects-1.html
<charles> ogra_, TIL
<nik90> ogra_: Do you believe in scaring people to make them wake up? :P
<charles> I wonder how much boiling liquid hate would come down on us if we used http://soundbible.com/2061-Loud-Alarm-Clock-Buzzer.html
<ogra_> nik90, there are 1000s if ogg sound files :)
<nik90> :)
<ogra_> charles, lol
<nik90> charles: btw does indicator-datetime take into account the alarm sound if specified by the clock app?
<nik90> charles: or is the default sound (current) hardcoded to be used for all alarms?
<charles> nik90, right now it's hardcoded, is there actually a way to set the sound in the clock app?
<charles> nik90, I'd be happy to support that, it's a reasonable request
<nik90> charles: not yet, but I am working on that now
<charles> nik90, cool
<charles> nik90, add indicator-datetime to the ticket and assign me to that component
<nik90> charles: I have been given design approval by mpt to add alarm sound choice in the clock app.
<nik90> charles: okay
<dednick> mterry: hm. need to ping the lander for that team (once i find out who it is)
<charles> looking through soundbible, I'm finding it a lot easier to find joke suggestions than serious ones...
<dednick> thostr_: hi. there's a fix for indicator-sound we need to get landed. https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/indicator-sound/account-services-update-heuristics
<thostr_> dednick: taking care of it...
<dednick> thostr_: thanks
<ogra_> charles, i also think we can only use "attribute 3.0" sounds ...
<ogra_> (and yeah, the majority are rather jokes, but still better than the current one :P )
<charles> ogra_: you have a suggestion then? ;)
<ogra_> not really one, i would poke around there until i find one ... but that indeed takes time
<ogra_> dont we have an audio person in the design team that could quickly throw together a DING sound ?
<charles> ogra_, good question
<charles> mpt: ^
 * ogra_ guesses everything is better than what we have now ... 
<charles> if we have someone on the design team who can put one together, that's much better than trawling for something that doesn't suck
<ogra_> /usr/share/sounds/freedesktop/stereo/alarm-clock-elapsed.oga
<ogra_> that might do for alarms for a start
<ogra_> not great but better than a ringtone
<ogra_> /usr/share/sounds/freedesktop/stereo/alarm-clock-elapsed.oga isnt bad either ... though should have a few repetitions perhaps
<charles> ogra_: I agree, that's better than the ringtone
<ogra_> and we already ship it :)
<charles> +1
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> heh, paste error
<ogra_> /usr/share/sounds/freedesktop/stereo/complete.oga was what i meant in the second comment
<jhodapp> Mirv, I'm looking for a way of testing media-hub against our old version of Qt5 prior to Qt5.2 to isolate a bug. I tried going back to an old build on trusty that still had it, but I can't upgrade libhybris without breaking things...how hard would it be to downgrade Qt or do you have any other ideas?
<nik90> charles: I like the alarm-clock-elapsed.oga for now
<jhodapp> Mirv, ping
<mterry> mzanetti, when will reminders app be able to use a real evernote account?
<mzanetti> mterry: we've sent it to Evernote for review now
<mzanetti> dpm: any more info on that?
<mterry> mzanetti, cool
<sergiusens> mzanetti: hey, without much helpful info, just wanted to say Tagger crashes for me on the latest images when it captures an image
<dpm> mzanetti, mterry, not yet, they want to test the app themselves first, and I sent them to them yesterday
<mzanetti> sergiusens: that should be fixed since last night
<mzanetti> sergiusens: still happening if you upgrade now?
<sergiusens> mzanetti: ah, you always are faster than my complaining :-)
<dpm> mzanetti, mterry, sorry, I meant I sent them _the instructions_ yesterday
<mzanetti> sergiusens: mhall119 already complained yesterday. otherwise I would have missed it
<mhall119> yup, all fixed now
<mhall119> thanks mzanetti, I've been missing this functionality :)
<mzanetti> mhall119: heh. really? what do you use it for? just out of curiosity
<mhall119> mzanetti: uh...scanning QR codes
<mzanetti> like really scanning codes and searching for stuff on google?
<mhall119> mzanetti: just scanning random codes I find to see where they point
<mzanetti> ah ok :)
<mhall119> stores have them on stickers to point to their websites, etc
<mzanetti> ah ok
<mhall119> also, summit.ubuntu.com has them to load the schedule on your phone
<mzanetti> right... its bus stops around here
<mzanetti> but ever since I do home office I don't use the bus that often any more
<mzanetti> I remember hunting some geocaches which required qr code scanning
<thostr_> dednick: sound indicator builds in silo 13
<mhall119> oh, we need a geocaching app
<mhall119> using rickspencer3's Mapping tutorials
<mzanetti> yeah.. we really do need a geocaching app... but the mapping is the easiest part there
<davmor2> mzanetti: you have OSMTouch surely you just need co-ordinates then :)
<mzanetti> davmor2: nah... for a proper app lots of other stuff is required. a coordinate calculation helper, some integrated note taking, support for multi-caches and lots more
<mzanetti> showing hints from the various sites etc etc
<mzanetti> that's a really good one: http://n9-apps.com/agtl
<mzanetti> iirc its python + qml.
<mzanetti> can we run that by now?
<popey> mzanetti: that would be neat to port
<mzanetti> popey: yeah, I wanted to do that already a while ago, but we couldn't run python on the phone back then
<mzanetti> not sure we can now
<popey> python is installed..
<ogra_> i dont think apparmor lets you execute it
<popey> i dont think we ever said you cant run python, just that we discourage its use for things like daemons
<popey> wat
<ogra_> also we dont expose compass data anywhere in QML yet i think
<mzanetti> but actually it should be quite straight forward to reimplement that stuff with Qt/C++
<mzanetti> ogra_: we do have the api. not sure we get any data out of it yet
<ogra_> you would have to ship your own python in the click
<ogra_> (interpreter and bindings that is)
<mzanetti> bein very inexperienced with python I guess I'd be faster to copy it with Qt
<ogra_> if you are experienced in Qt yeah ... :)
<mzanetti> I am somewhat I'd say, yes
<mzanetti> so yeah... that should be on my todo
<ogra_> :)
<popey> heh
<ogra_> sigh
<ogra_> again no meeting notification
<ogra_> i switched on the phone screen, it showed 16:58 ...
<cjwatson> plars: Just slurping down the necessary files now so that I can try a local build (might as well start now, it probably won't be finished downloading by the time I finish for the day)
<ogra_> and immediately jumped to 17:01
<plars> cjwatson: thanks a lot!
<mzanetti> ogra_: I tried the alarm clock yesterday... I slept in
<ogra_> so it missed the mark to do the notification at 17:00
<ogra_> yeah something is wonky with the clock
<ogra_> or with Qt
<dobey> dpm, popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bug/1297357/comments/8
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1297357 in Ubuntu Clock App "Click App Preview of the core-apps are of low quality" [Low,Confirmed]
<mhall119> ogra_: that's not the Clock app then, it's the datetime indicator, the clock isn't running when the screen is off
<mhall119> the indicator is what triggers alarms, not hte app
<ogra_> mhall119, well, the clock :) not the clock-app ...
<ogra_> could even be the system clock that gets halted
<dpm> dobey, I'd recommend opening another one. Right now we're putting the translations in the .mo files for the core apps, and on that bug what's left to be done only is to update the screenshots and descriptions of the apps in the store, which I now have the permissions for
<ogra_> mhall119, i think tvoss' hw-alarms api will at least make sure we get proper time for the alarms
<mhall119> ogra_: ah, ok, misunderstood
<dobey> ogra_: there definitely seems to be something seriously wrong with the system clock being halted, at least on my phone
<ogra_> dobey, well, it is fine to halt the visible clock to save battery while it is invisible ... but the alarms need to still get the correct time on the low level
<dobey> dpm: are the descriptions for those apps updated in the .desktop files?
<dobey> ogra_: yeah, but when i install a new image, my phone shouldn't say it's february 1970 when i reboot
<tvoss> dobey, what is the concrete issue you are seeing?
<dpm> dobey, I think right now we only have good app names in the .desktop files. I think some of them don't even have descriptions
<dobey> dpm: i think Comment= in the .desktop needs to match the description on the store
<dobey> dpm: also the description in the manifest.json should be the same
<dobey> tvoss: when i unlock my phone, the time is sometimes way off, and it takes several seconds at least, for the time to update
<dpm> dobey, yeah, I wasn't too sure of which should correspond to which. I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/AppMetadataTranslations as an attempt to have an overview and find out
<tvoss> dobey, is that on a recent image? the delayed update was mostly due to the blocked rendering loop in qt apps
<ogra_> tvoss, thats on 18 for me
<ogra_> yesterdays image
<tvoss> ogra_, dobey okay, that's interesting. let me try to reproduce
<dobey> tvoss: this is on a nexus 5 btw. i don't know if it's actually different on nexus 4
<ogra_> tvoss, keep the phone off for a while ... if you wake it up you see the clock a bit behind and have it jump forward a few mins
<dobey> tvoss: and yes, on current image
<dobey> dpm: ok, i'll have a look at that. i actually also have a request in to get rid of "Tagline" completely from the store
<dobey> dpm: should i just make edits to that page, or discuss with you first?
<dpm> dobey, feel free to edit, any help is welcome!
<dobey> ok, great
<dpm> dobey, in offline mode, there is still the point that manifests are not translatable, but do they need to be if we can read the translations from the .desktop file? I'm not sure it contains all the metadata you're displaying on the scope, though
<dobey> dpm: if Comment in the .desktop is the same as the Description in the manifest, then the .desktop file is enough. if we want those to be separate things for some reason (i can't think of any good reason for them to be), then we'll need separate translations for them
<dpm> ok, gotcha
<dobey> dpm: ok, i'll tweak that table after lunch. thanks
<dpm> sounds good, thank you!
<thostr_> didrocks: packages available for testing at https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-013/
<thostr_> didrocks: sorry, mean dednick
<didrocks> no worry ;)
<thostr_> stupid tabcompletion
<dednick> thostr_: thanks
<dednick> thostr_: i'll take a look
<thostr_> dednick: gave it a shot on the phone... better then before for sure, but still somewhat laggy
<ogra_> kalikiana_, so i rebased that haptic fix but now the CI bot is playing tricks on me ... will you merge it anyway or should it do a completely new MP to get the bot back to sane ?
<kalikiana_> ogra_: there is no "anyway" CI has to pass. sometimes empty commits are what's needed
<ogra_> well, it is identical to the former, just that i rebased on the other branch ... but CI bot fails continiously now
<ogra_> and retrying just does nothing
<kalikiana_> ogra_: I will approve it and there's a chance autolanding will pass then.
<ogra_> ok i pinged fginther too in #ubuntu-ci-eng ... if nothing works i'll just create a new MP and we'll drop this one i guess
<dednick> mterry: just tried the new sound indicator on phone again, and thostr is correct, there's still some lag coming in from some place. feels like there's there is a call blocking somewhere...
<kalikiana_> from my pov it's nothing special to be honestâ¦ we have "bogus" errors like this all the time
<ogra_> yeah
<kalikiana_> sometimes I just don't have time to hunt every single one
<dednick> mterry: the spazzed out jerkyness is gone, but there's still sometimes lag when dragging around wildly
<mterry> dednick, hrm
<dednick> mterry: doesnt seem to happen on dekstop
<dednick> mterry: erm, maybe it's the touch events...
<dpm> hey jdstrand, if you're happy with the proposal, could you update https://code.launchpad.net/~jdstrand/music-app/lp1315386/+merge/218079 and we'll get it approved?
<jdstrand> dpm: done
<popey> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> np
<dpm> awesome, thanks jdstrand!
<dobey> dpm: what does "visible on desktop" mean on that page exactly, btw?
<dpm> dobey, whether the message in that particular field is shown to users on the desktop
<dobey> dpm: inside software-center you mean? or elsewhere?
<dpm> dobey, anywhere. E.g. I know that both Name and Comment are shown in the Launcher on the desktop, whereas on the phone only Name is shown
<dpm> I mean the Name and Comment fields from the desktop files
<dobey> comment is shown on the phone too (sort of, only for non-clickified apps currently, but that will change soon)
<dobey> dpm: ok, updated that wiki page. hopefully a little clearer
<dpm> looks great, thanks dobey for the fixes
<dpm> and the bug links
<ogra_> stgraber, seems we promoted a messed up image ... if i run copy-image without -k it will just auto-increment on top of the last promoted version, right ?
 * ogra_ wants to copy image #18 to become the promoted #20 to revert 
<rsalveti> slangasek: so it seems we're just missing qtubuntu-gles now, but had one question about qtubuntu as well
<rsalveti> did a new upload yesterday to drop qtubuntu-android for i386 and amd64, and it's still in proposed
<rsalveti> it seems to be a valid candidate by looking at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html
<slangasek> right, it should be able to migrate once qtubuntu-gles is accepted
<slangasek> right now, the dropped qtubuntu-android packages are out of date / NBS
<rsalveti> but it says it's skipped at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt
<rsalveti> right
<rsalveti> thought that this would be the issue, but logs are not saying much
<slangasek> so I just need to accept qtubuntu-gles and it will sort itself out
<rsalveti> right
<slangasek> W: libqt5multimediawidgets5-gles: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libQt5MultimediaWidgets5
<slangasek> W: libqt5multimediawidgets5-gles: symbols-declares-dependency-on-other-package libqt5multimediawidgets5 #MINVER#
<slangasek> rsalveti: ^^ btw
<slangasek> (no wrong-named lintian overrides this time, just missing ones)
<rsalveti> yeah, let me change that
<rsalveti> also did the renaming for the qml module
<rsalveti> doing a new upload in a few
<mterry> tedg, how hard would it be to fix bug 1317649?
<ubot5> bug 1317649 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "When clearing messages from greeter, it should sync to session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1317649
<tedg> mterry, Not hard, but non-trivial.
<tedg> mterry, I can't "just do it" it would probably have to be a scheduled thing, but it's not a ton of work.
<mterry> tedg, I'll talk to kgunn, but I suspect we'll want to prioritize it
<tedg> mterry, I wouldn't talk to kgunn today, he's probably still coming to terms with being a Browns fan. Give him a week or two.
<mterry> tedg, :)
<dobey> that is a lot of core apps :-/
<dobey> kenvandine, robru: also, separate bug for you specifically: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/friends-app/+bug/1318005
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1318005 in friends-app (Ubuntu) "friends-app.desktop not translated" [Undecided,New]
<robru> dobey, thanks
<unixfan> Hi all :)
<unixfan> I need assistance in installing Ubuntu in my Android tablet
<unixfan> Now it's stuck in 'Android system recovery', asking for installing update package, so is it possible to use Ubuntu package?
<unixfan> any help???
<popey> unixfan: what tablet?
<unixfan> trio stealth g2
<stgraber> ogra_: right
<taiebot> Hi i am on 14.10 (r19) my gsm network does not start anymore...
<slangasek> sergiusens: nuntium accepted; and fwiw, bug #1318027 filed about this dh_strip override of yours
<ubot5> bug 1318027 in gcc-4.9 (Ubuntu) "binaries built with gccgo-4.9 cannot be stripped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318027
<sergiusens> thanks
<taiebot> Anyone got is ofono set up broken like me on 14.10 (r19) hud is showing five time cellular settings and i cannot connect to gsm network anymore? when i go to system settings cellular everything is off
<sergiusens> the panic during panic was hilariously sad to see btw :-p
<dobey> taiebot: is working fine here on my nexus 5
<alecu> dobey: ping
<dobey> alecu: hi
<alecu> dobey: I'm not able to join the canonical irc
<dobey> did you forget how? :)
<alecu> dobey: no! It's just that my quassel core keeps saying "Connection failure: Connection timed out"
<dobey> alecu: i saw several people fell off with "ping timeout" including you
<alecu> 502105
<dobey> anyway, i guess it'll work again soon
<taiebot> well after a forced reboot through adb shell it works but system settings is completely broken
<alecu> hmmm
<dobey> wrong place for your otp :P
<dobey> taiebot: online accounts is you mean?
<alecu> dobey: right :-)
<taiebot> dobey: system settings/ cellular
<rsalveti> slangasek: so only two remaining things :-) one is that I just uploaded a new qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles containing the package renaming, which generated a new package
<dobey> taiebot: works fine here too :)
<alecu> dobey: I've rebooted my vpn, and still can't connect. I think I'm going to take the opportunity and call this EOW
<rsalveti> slangasek: and the second one is about qtubuntu
<dobey> alecu: can you review my branch?
<alecu> dobey: please excuse me with the people in #unity-api, and tell ted we will continue talking about this on monday.
<rsalveti> slangasek: I believe it's not going to be migrated automatically because I'm not generating qtubuntu-desktop anymore for armhf
<rsalveti> as it was wrong (forcing gl while qt was built with gles)
<alecu> dobey: yes, if it's ok I'll do it tonight.
<dobey> ok
<alecu> dobey: log-response-body and fix-1234211?
<dobey> tedg: ^^ :)
<dobey> alecu: yeah
<tedg> Heh
<taiebot> dobey:  it has been broken since yesterday. Want to show you what i mean. How do i take screenshot now phablet-screenshot does not work?
<dobey> timchen1`: what device are you on?
<dobey> err, sorry
<dobey> taiebot: what device?
<dobey> alecu: have a good weekend!
<taiebot> nexus 4
<taiebot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1316806
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1316806 in phablet-tools (Ubuntu) "phablet-screenshot looking for the wrong filename" [High,New]
<dobey> taiebot: you can edit the phablet-screenshot script and add the "_60Hz" in the filename it's looking for
<taiebot> dobey:http://uppix.com/f-mir2536d38f000165cbd.png
<taiebot> dobey:http://uppix.com/f-mir536d38d700165cbc.png
<dobey> weird
<slangasek> rsalveti: ah.  why not generate qtubuntu-desktop on armhf?  Obviously not useful on the phone, but I think it's better to continue including it
<rsalveti> slangasek: because the binary will be broken
<slangasek> how?
<slangasek> awesome to see lots of  libqt5gui5 (>= 5.2.0) | libqt5gui5-gles (>= 5.2.0) in package deps now, btw
<rsalveti> you're forcing qtubuntu to build against opengl, but then it's including qt's static libplaform that was built against opengles
<rsalveti> so you get half of it doing gl and half of it doing gles :-)
<rsalveti> that was the same issue I had with qtubuntu-android, but the other way around
<rsalveti> it *might* still work, but can't tell you for sure
<rsalveti> if you think it'd still make sense to have it, I can easily change
<rsalveti> yeah, that's awesome :-)
<rsalveti> I wish that qt's libplatform was a shared library
<taiebot> Well done to the oxide-team my browser is getting along quite nicely (better than iphone 4s)  http://uppix.com/f-speed536d40c800165cde.png
<rsalveti> slangasek: what do you prefer then? create qtubuntu-desktop again on armhf even though we're not sure it works or just approve the migration?
<slangasek> rsalveti: well, /ultimately/ I would like to see the gl+gles package split carried consistently across all architectures, including armhf
<rsalveti> right, this will hopefully come with a newer qt as well
<slangasek> I don't have a strong preference for what we do with qtubuntu-desktop on armhf in the short term; if you tell me the package is broken, I'll just remove the binary
<slangasek> but if it's just "maybe broken" I would prefer to keep it in the archive
<rsalveti> well, don't have a way to test :-)
<rsalveti> so guess it'd be 'maybe'
<rsalveti> let me add it again then
<slangasek> ok
<int_ua> Anyone online with Ubuntu Touch running natively right now? Can you check if /sys/class/rtc/rtc0/wakealarm exists? http://askubuntu.com/questions/454381/does-ubuntu-phone-support-rtc-alarm
<dobey> int_ua: doesn't exist on my nexus 5
<Tassadar> n5's RTC is very bad though
<dobey> very bad?
<Tassadar> it can't be set, or else things start to break
<Tassadar> that's why n5 has wrong time every time you turn it on, before it grabs it from the network
<Tassadar> flo has has that alarm, I think I was Cyanongemod do something with it
<dobey> Tassadar: i've seen the wrong time complaint from others on nexus 4 today too
<dobey> and i'm pretty sure it was a problem on my nexus 7 as well
<Tassadar> with n5, it is problem even on android
<Tassadar> from what I found out, the RTC can't be set, or else there are some problems with modem and somebody said guys from CM who tried to fixed it got data corruption(?)
<Tassadar> so android has a daemon, which stores offset in a file in /data, which is added to the time in RTC on every boot
<Tassadar> lots of devices with newer qualcomm SOCs do that
<Tassadar> some even have the daemon broken, so they simply don't have any persistent time, they need to grab it from network
<dobey> wo we'll need a daemon? :(
<peteypeter>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER peteypeter hwoutjkawyuz
<int_ua> Tassadar: does this SOCs claim ACPI support?
<dobey> uhm
<Tassadar> these are ARMs, there is no acpi here
<dobey> lol
<Tassadar> not yet anyway
<int_ua> ok, dobey, will you add the answer on AU?
<Tassadar> I'm not sure about it
<Tassadar> I can check it on flo
<dobey> no
<Tassadar> gimme a minute
<dobey> i'm not authoritative
<peteypeter>  /msg NickServ identify test
<Tassadar> hm, no, it doesn't seem to support it
<int_ua> What is this "flo" you are talking about?
<Tassadar> Nexus 7 2013
<dobey> wifi
<Tassadar> but CyanogenMod's kernel for that Nexus 7 and Nexus 4 has some fixes for it, so I guess it can be fixed if required
<int_ua> ok, will you, Tassadar, add the answer on AU?
<int_ua> Are there any Ubuntu Phone devices ready to check them too?
<Tassadar> I added my answer there
<Tassadar> aaand he's gone
<Pixel848> Hi, I have a question about Ubuntu for Tablets. Can it boot to linux so I can run a webserver? Sorry if it's a daft question!
<verdeP> err it is linux though ... do you mean boot to like non gui?
<verdeP> like a headless server xD
<verdeP> pretty sure you can get terminal access....I'd imagine it wouldn't be impossible to get a webserver running on it, even the simple python one
<verdeP> but I don't have it so ^^
<mhall119> I'm on r17, system-settings tells me r20 is available, but I get an error trying to download it
<mhall119> worse, system-image-cli -n says my upgrade path is 19:20, while I'm still on r17
<popey> mhall119: oh dear, this is probably because ogra_ copied 17 to 20
<popey> mhall119: so basically you get nothing by even trying to uprade because technically 20 _is_ 17
<popey> (19 & 18 were broken, so we rolled back)
<popey> mhall119: there will be no promoted image until monday, so give  up trying or flash clean 20 (which is 17 really, so not worth it)
<popey> -> bed
<Tassadar> it also means you can't promote 20 from proposed, if you don't want the version numbers to get messed up Oo
<mhall119> <kirkvoice>Oggrrraaaaaaaa_____!</kirkvoice>
 * Tassadar imagines seeing someone yell ____ must be interesting
<mhall119> Tassadar: the _ is silent ;)
<Tassadar> ^^
<mhall119> somewhere after the 4th 'a' your breath runs out anyway
<rsalveti> slangasek: qtubuntu just migrated to release, only remaining think then is reviewing the new bin from latest qtmultimedia-opensource-src-gles
<rsalveti> *remaining thing
<mhall119> ogra_: why was 17 renamed to 20? Did we promote 18 and 19 out of -proposed before finding the problems?
<wolflarson> tassadar i love you
#ubuntu-touch 2014-05-10
<doflaherty> mhall119, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg08031.html
<mhall119> thanks doflaherty
<mhall119> popey: do you have newer click tools than I do?  I ran click-run-check on my package and it didn't complain about UbuntuWebView 0.1
<popey> mhall119: i use click tools from trunk
<niftynate> SO
<niftynate> I am curious.
<niftynate> I might toss out my old 1GHz single core piece of junk and grab a more modern android phone. Naturally I'll hack it as much as I can. I'm intrigued by Ubuntu touch. What is the graphical environment? Is it possible to install GCC and python/gtk libraries? Could one feasibly compile unsupported graphical programs on it?
<popey> niftynate: yes and no
<popey> niftynate: you can certainly use tools like gcc and python, but anything that needs X won't work out of the box
<popey> we don't ship x
<niftynate> I was wondering what the graphical environment was. I'm guessing it's something akin to Android's stuff?
<popey> we use unity8 on mir
<niftynate> MIR. I see
<niftynate> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec#Toolkit_Integration_.26_Legacy_X_Application_Support
<niftynate> Is this bit realized yet? Does anyone know?
<niftynate> Obviously to run inside of MIR the X will have to be modified and virtualized somehow. I dunno if that's ready yet.
<popey> pass
<niftynate> Freedom to compile and use legacy applications would be a big part of my attraction, but command-line applications are also comfortable. Truthfully, I can't name a lot of GUI-centric apps I'd need particularly. Mainly hexchat. :P
<niftynate> popey: giving up on me so quickly?
<popey> I'm playing games â»
<popey> irc is distracting me â»
<niftynate> You've got an irssi script that auto-converts emoticons to unicode faces? Bizarre.
<popey> I do
<niftynate> I guess xmir is something I need to research more.
<niftynate> SOUNDS ready but I'll need to see documentation.
<popey> i think xmir is on hold for now, and all work is on mir
<niftynate> That statement hurts my head a little
<niftynate> Well, barring greater legacy X support, I have now lost some interest in Ubuntu Touch.
<niftynate> I know the support is coming, but as I stand it's an investment I have to be careful about.
<niftynate> Who can tell me how the android app support is going?
<Tassadar> ubuntu touch is not supposed to support android apps
<popey> we certainly have no current plans to support android apps natively
<niftynate> "support" these days seems to refer to how well people involved in the project will approve the idea.
<popey> if you want it in black and white.
<popey> you can't run android apps on ubuntu touch
<popey> in the same way you can't run ios apps on android
<dobey> why would you want to run tradiitonal apps on a phone anyway? they are hardly built for it
<dobey> do you want a phone or a laptop?
<popey> i met a guy at my LUG and when I gave a demo of ubuntu phone his first question was "can it run emacs?"
<dobey> well it can, but the terminal app isn't really up to the keyboard combos one uses in emacs
 * dobey wonders if there's a mir backend in upstream emacs yet
<dobey> but can != should
<dobey> anyway, back to weekend
<mhall119> popey: 0.9.6.1 fails because of using Oxide UbuntuWebView, looks like a permission issue, what do I need to add to my apparmor manifest?
<niftynate> I plan to live my 90s tv-punk-hacker dream and get a 5"+ handheld computer (phone) and one of these: http://images.gizmag.com/hero/thanko-folding-usb-keyboard.jpg
<niftynate> I can get by with Android until the right software comes along. Thanks for your support. I'll still be watching Ubuntu Touch closely. Dalvik virtualization layers can't be that hard to do...
<t1mp> niftynate: you should be able to compile any qt5-based apps on ubuntu touch
<t1mp> and run even ;)
<t1mp> uhm.. wait is it true what I'm saying? not sure about qtwidgets.. but newer apps often use qtquick anyway
<popey> mhall119: pass
<Steve[cloud]> anyone have any ideas as to how to resolve this reboot loop im in on a N10?
<MOUD> Hey all
<a_muva__> if I: system-image-cli -n, I get: Upgrade path is 19:20, but I can not upgrade (system-image-cli)
<popey> a_muva__: yeah, wait till the next image, tomorrow
<popey> or indeed monday
<a_muva__> popey: OK thank you.
#ubuntu-touch 2014-05-11
<manornk> Hi, i have a Geeksphone Peak, and i would like to put Ubuntu touch on it, is it available?
<dobey> well that's odd. sound "works" still for everything other than the phone, after a call on the nexus 5, now. calls can still be made after now too, but without any audio. and the audio in music or grooveshark is pretty distored too, usually (but that happens anyway)
#ubuntu-touch 2015-05-04
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: not exactly, but maybe what you need it for can be done any way? I mean, you can certainly pass custom value types from c++ to qml and use them in signals
<Mirv> chrisccoulson: usually the UITK people have already done it if one's wondering whether something can be done
<dholbach> good morning
<cylonmath2> gm
<taiebot1> Will the meizu Mx4 will be launched at the UOS http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1466 :-D
<marc___> hi all.
<marc___> Anyone around to help a (very) newbie setup the ubuntu-sdk? I seem to be having some issues getting it working.
<marc___> Back later.
<cwayne> mzanetti, yo, is authenticator in a PPA somewhere too? it'd be pretty useful to have on desktop (at least as a backup) :)
<bfiller> mhall119: I registerd this blueprint for the browser convergence session - not sure if I did it right so it gets linked
<bfiller> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-1505-converged-browser
<mhall119> bfiller: is that for http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22478/browser-for-convergence/ ?
<bfiller> mhall119: yes
<mhall119> bfiller: ok, I'll add it to that meeting
<bfiller> mhall119: thanks
<jcbjoe_> can somebody give me the command to install ubuntu-touch on a nexus 4
<jcbjoe_> ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=devel --bootstrap < -- im assuming i put stable where devel is
<brunch875>  jcbjoe_: --bootstrap wipes, so be careful
<jcbjoe_> brunch875: what command should i run to install then ?
<brunch875> the same, but without bootstrap. On the other hand you NEED to wipe for the installation to succeed
<brunch875> sometimes
<brunch875> so my recommendation is to try without bootstrap and if it doesn't work, retry with bootstrap
<brunch875> make sure to backup your data first if there's something you really can't afford losing
<jcbjoe_> brunch875: nope its a phone i boughto of swappa i will be getting it today .. i have a backup phone in case the nexus 4 dosen't work
<sturmflut-work> I was over it with ondra and ogra_ last week and came to no working state, so I'll ask again: What is the proper way to (temporarily) change the kernel command line on the bq? I tried everything I could come up with using abootimg and fastboot, but in the end the kernel always booted the default cmdline.
<nicomen> anyone having issues creating a kit with the ubuntu sdk for 15.04?
<bzoltan> nicomen: could you describe the issue you have?
<nicomen> bzoltan: after setting up the chroot it fails with some permission issues, I don't have the text in front of me anymore. Is there a way to run the same click thing from a terminal?
<nicomen> 14.10 worked, and it seems to be what I have on my e4.5
<bzoltan> nicomen: sudo  click chroot -a armhf -f ubuntu-sdk-15.04 create
<nicomen> ah nice thanks ;)
<jcbjoe_> what is the most stable for ubuntu-touch is is it 14.04 or 15.04 ?
<bzoltan> jcbjoe_: 15.04 devel proposed channel
<nicomen> is there an easy way to update the actual phone to 15.04? apt-get dist-upgrade, or use an image?
<jcbjoe_> bzoltan: is devel proposed stable ?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> -proposed is never stable .... it is proposed for testing
<ogra_> (untested daily build)
<bzoltan> jcbjoe_: Oh man, sorry .. my eyes cheated me... I have read "recent"
 * bzoltan is legally blind
<jcbjoe_> its ok bzoltan thanks ogra_
<jcbjoe_> any of you use ubuntu-touch as a daily driver ?
<jcbjoe_> sorry for the 21 questions .. im going to be using it as a dailiy driver and just want some feedback
<ogra_> yes, and there are phones on sale with it
<ogra_> (so you can assume the buyers do too)
<marcinello> jcbjoe: yeah, it's my daily driver on Nexus 4. I have dual boot with Android but I rarely use it
<studio_> hi
<studio_> is there an "easy way" for the bq E4.5 to boot for exp. the ut rtm-version from mmcblk0 and the ut dev-version from mmcblk1?
<studio_> no idea?
<studio_> ok, what about xmir on mir? when will the rootless x work on mir? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec
<studio_> popey, ping
<studio_> ok, no answer is also an answer :(
<jkb_> hi. I want to call a page from a dialog, pop it, and refocus the dialog again. is that possible?
<pmcgowan> jkb_, maybe ask in #ubuntu-app-devel
<Sebsebsebb> Hi
<jkb_> pmcgowan, I have. But seems to be quiet at the moment. So, I tried here :-)
<pmcgowan> oh
<Sebsebsebb> How to see the crash files on phone
<Sebsebsebb> Back
<popey> Sebsebsebb: /var/crash
<ogra_> or via the privacy/security settings ...
<ogra_> (the submitted ones, online)
<Sebsebsebb> I looked at this a bit before, but then get a loaf of files in there from what I remember, and then wasn't sure how to open one
<Sebsebsebb> The submitted ones online got to have special access for that
<Sebsebsebb> Which don't have
<popey> Sebsebsebb: what are you hoping to see?
<Sebsebsebb> Some crash error I guess, curious to see what is actually in them
<popey> you can grab them from the /var/crash directory and unpack them
<popey> apport-unpack file.crash foo/
<Sebsebsebb> Yeah that's the bit I didn't understand how to do before how to unpack
<popey> \o/ successfully made a 500M click package
<popey> took freaking ages
<popey> real    122m1.942s
 * popey attempts to upload to the store
<ogra_> wow, what is in it ? android ?
<ogra_> AfU :)
<popey> hah
<popey> openstreetmap offline map
<popey> lots of pre-rendered tiles
<ogra_> the whole world ?
<popey> hah, nope. one little island :S
<ogra_> little :)
<popey> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/50.6719/-1.2931
<popey> fairly small, yeah
<ogra_> wow
<ogra_> that eats 500M ?
<Sebsebsebb> By the way a ubuntu phone that turns into a basic ubuntu computer when put into a monitor or keyboard by October really?
<popey> Sebsebsebb: so mark says :)
<Tassadar> osm app on android can fit my whole country in 500mb Oo
<popey> yeah, trying to figure out how they do that
<popey> I suspect they render on the device?
<Tassadar> yeah
<popey> they don't ship the pre-rendered tiles.
<popey> so i need to find some way to do that :)
<Tassadar> the re-drawing when you zoom in looks like it is vectors
<popey> yes
<ogra_> it surely is
<popey> i used maps.me
<popey> which works really nicely and has an in-built downloader
<popey> btw that's 500M compressed, the tiles are 2.9GB uncompressed :D
<ogra_> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vector_tiles ?
<popey> ah yes, seen some of those, thanks. will investigate more
<popey> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kothic_JS looks interesting
<ogra_> sure does
<ogra_> ah, but for nodejs
<Tassadar> click'd nodejs, obviously!
<ogra_> thats easy :)
<extraymond> Anyone know how to delete history from dash?
<Tassadar> rm ~/.bash_history?
<extraymond> Tassadar: no such file...
<Tassadar> probably somewhere else in ubuntu then
<extraymond> Will be nice if we can have that option from the drop-down menu when searching from scopes or dash though.
<Tassadar> ooh, that dash, sorry :D
<Tassadar> mean like bash, as in in the terminal, not the GUI)
<Tassadar> *meant
<extraymond> XD Do you know how to do so if it's dash?
<Tassadar> no)
<Tassadar> I don't really use ubuntu touch
<extraymond> That's sad to know...
<extraymond> Thx for trying to help anyway XD
<Tassadar> it's not really compatible with my android wear watch, that could be the excuse)
<popey> nodejs is fine, I have other node apps as clicks
<ogra_> in the store ?
<ogra_> Tassadar, time to fix that ;) ... patches accepted ;)
<Tassadar> yeah, I know, but wear is propriatery
<ogra_> as a whole ?!?
<Tassadar> yes
<ogra_> there must be APIs to talk to
<Tassadar> only gpl parts are available
<Tassadar> it's basically physical manifestation of google services
<Tassadar> it uses the google apis even to communicate with the phone, gl re-implementing that :/
<ogra_> wow
<popey> ogra_: no, ones I'm working on
<popey> but they work on device
<ogra_> cool
<popey> i have a new pebble time on order
<popey> would be interesting to get that working with Ubuntu
<Tassadar> not sure how open pebble really is
<Tassadar> I know they didn't want to do windows phone support
<Tassadar> I mean, nobody really does, but still
<popey> I thought MS did the windows phone support then pebble backed away
<Tassadar> or maybe that was that
<Tassadar> dunno, not really interested in it that much
<marc___> Hi All - Anyone around?
<dadexix86> hi marc___
<marc___> Hi Dadexix86
<marc___> Got any time to help a newbie with ubuntu-sdk?
<dadexix86> hi marc___ ehm... not really, I don't program for Ubuntu, so I didn't really set it up on my computer :)
<marc___> No worries. I'll figure it out. Just can't seem to get the thing working. My setup is a bit kookie so it might take a while.
<BOHverkill> https://i.imgur.com/7ke6qIw.png das erste ist Ubuntu das zweite dann arch ;)
<BOHverkill> oh sorry false chatt :S
<SturmFlut> popey: Ping
<popey> SturmFlut: yo
<SturmFlut> Might be interesting for some: http://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/bq/2015/05/04/hacking-the-bq-part-2-factory-mode/
<OerHeks> SturmFlut, thank you, bookmarked.
<cylonmath2> how to use google calendar?
<SturmFlut> Oh wow. You can log into an adb shell in Factory Mode, start the FM Radio (which is currently not supported by Ubuntu Touch) and then look at dmesg. 187 lines of debugging output while tuning to a single channel, and the kernel loads about five firmware files :/
<Becky01> shuttleworth said that thered be a phone out this year that could do convergence, does that mean itll converge from day one or that ionll be ready for when the softwares ready?
#ubuntu-touch 2015-05-05
<extraymond> aia, but got stuck at finding b2g desktop for linux.
<extraymond> Hi! I was trying to test tv version of gaia.
<extraymond> But got stuck at finding b2g desktop for linux
<extraymond> Anyone know how to do so?
<extraymond> I'
<extraymond> I'm following https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/TVs_connected_devices
<extraymond> ... I posted at the wrong forum... just ignore me...
<ClashTheBunny> Hi, I'm curious if the current status of the Nexus 5 is actual on the Touch/Devices page.  It has said the same thing for quite a while.  Has there been no progress?  Where are hardware specific bugs kept?
<duflu> ClashTheBunny: I don't have one, but can only see one bug open: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bugs?field.tag=nexus5
<sturmflut-work> duflu: Searching for "Nexus 5" on bugs.launchpad.net yields a lot more results for me, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=nexus+5
<duflu> sturmflut-work: Yes, although I was going for hardware blockers, which would be mostly in Mir if at all
<sturmflut-work> duflu: In my humble opinion things like https://bugs.launchpad.net/camera-app/+bug/1423045 are pretty big blockers too, even though they do not exactly seem to be hardware problems
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1423045 in camera-app "camera-app not working on Nexus 5" [High,Confirmed]
<cylonmath2> how can i use my google calendar on the phone?
<pundir> hi, how tightly bound this mtp implementation https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mtp is to the Android USB gadget driver?
<pundir> can it work with a generic MTP configfs driver as such?
<pundir> rsalveti, ^^
<sturmflut-work> Does the "Developer mode" setting change anything besides enabling ADB?
<ogra_> well, enabling adb changes a lot :)
<sturmflut-work> Haha
<ogra_> but no, nothing beyond that
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Ferret Day! ð
<cylonmath2> u2
<mcphail> I think it would be great if /usr/local was mounted rw and was not touched by system upgrades. It would be particulary useful if/when UT becomes multiuser. Would anyone agree?
<mpt> tvoss, cyphermox: An architecture question. Most WPA Enterprise Wi-Fi authentication methods require one or more certificate files or a PAC file. What things do we need to provide for people to do that on Ubuntu Touch?
<mpt>  Iâm guessing (a) a file handler thingy so that when you download a cert/PAC file, System Settings lets you save it; (b) a method for the Wi-Fi auth dialog (which has many callsites, not just System Settings) to ask System Settings for the list of available certs/PAC files; (c) a method for Network Manager to extract the desired cert/PAC file from System Settings storage.
<mpt> But not being an engineer Iâm probably amusingly incorrect
<tvoss> mpt, I'm not a 100% sure, but integration with content hub sounds like the easiest way forward. With that, the call site could just say: "Need certificate file of type...", and content hub takes care of resolving
<mpt> tvoss, thatâs a possible solution for (b), but the drawback is that the picker would be a secondary dialog on top of the auth dialog. Iâd rather just have a menu inside the auth dialog.
<tvoss> mpt, sure, we shouldn't assume a common shared location of data though. Thus I proposed the content hub
<pitti> ogra_: hey Oliver, wie gehts?
<mpt> tvoss, why canât we assume a common shared location of these two particular types of files? Itâs not as if any other app will do anything useful with them.
<pitti> ogra_: do you happen to know how I can change the kernel boot params on mako?
<tvoss> mpt, because we generally try to avoid common hard-coded paths around the system. Also: the content picker import thingy on top of the auth dialog would be a one-time operation iiuc
<mpt> tvoss, you say hard-coded path, I say âmethod for asking for the list of available certs/PACsâ :-)
<tvoss> mpt, to me a method is a call to an interface :) not listing the contents of a probably well-known directory
<mpt> exactly
<ogra_> pitti, append-cmdline-arg ... and remove-cmdline-arg ... from the abootimg package
<tvoss> mpt, so (b) and (c) could obviously be solved with services. (a) is a content-hub operation
<mpt> tvoss, also, this probably wonât be the last time that the picker is annoyingly slow as a way of accessing files of a particular type. <http://photos2.appleinsidercdn.com/gallery/10509-2769-140917-Messages-2-l.png>
<ogra_> pitti, just on the running phone ... (and reboot indeed)
<tvoss> mpt, that's again a larger platform discussion that we need to have
<pitti> ogra_: hm, "abootimg --help|grep cmdline" shows nothing; but thanks for the hint, I'll look in that direction
<tvoss> or better: if we want to change the current behavior and alter the primitives we have introduced
<pitti> ogra_: (might be different on dual-boot)
<ogra_> pitti, ah, no idea about dualboot, we dont really support it
<ogra_> pitti, with plain abootimg you would use: abootimg -u /path/to/boot/partition -c "cmdline=foo"
<ogra_> but i guess in the case of dualboot thats hacked up differently so the boot partition might not be what you think
<pitti> $ cat /proc/cmdline
<pitti> console=ttyHSL0,115200,n8 androidboot.hardware=mako lpj=67677 user_debug=31 uart_console=enable lcd_maker_id=primary lge.hreset=off lge.reset=mode_reset gpt=enable lge.kcal=0|0|0|x lge.rev=rev_11 androidboot.emmc=true androidboot.serialno=01dfbefacd5202ac androidboot.bootloader=MAKOZ30f androidboot.baseband=mdm bootreason=recovery
<pitti> ogra_: yeah, it looks fairly magic like that
<ogra_> well, the cmdline you see is assembled from different places ... kernel, boot.img and bootloader each set parts of it
<pitti> ogra_: anyway, I just took the plunge and installed systemd-sysv :)
<pitti> it boots enough to get me a phablet-shell, so I have everything I need
<ogra_> good
<pitti> ok, the session crashes on startup, but the rest looks good; so running systemd on kernel 3.4 is nowhere near as complicated as I was afraid of originally
<pitti> ogra_: ^ context: it seems $HIGH_ABOVE wants us to move touch to snappy, so we need to accelerate the init move, I guess :)
<ogra_> pitti, not only HIGH_ABOVE :)
<ogra_> pitti, well, the only tricky bits i see is the massive amount of upstart job hacks we have and the interaction with the container ... beyond this it shouldnt differ from server or desktop
<ogra_> (and indeed the lack of kernel features)
<pitti> ogra_: right; I was a bit afraid it required the cgroup reorg from 3.7, but turns out it doesn't
<pitti> ogra_: it only needs kernel-side firmware loading as it was dropped from udev; but we don't do/need that on touch anyway
<pitti> and even if we need to, that's really easy to put back
<ogra_> well, not sure how cgroups and systemd would get into pla with ubuntu-app-launch here
<ogra_> *play
<pitti> ogra_: well, that's session, not system, isn't it?
<ogra_> yeah
<pitti> ogra_: AFAIK the biggest thing that's not just a JFDI is session upstart jobs listening for property changes
<ogra_> but i dont know if UAL for example relies on any system upstart features
<ogra_> well, there are session jobs that heavily depends on system job events too
<ogra_> we need ot find some ways to bridge that gap again
<pitti> ogra_: right, that's what I meant with the above property changes
<ogra_> (i.e. mtp-server is rather broken due to that and just constantly running nowadays)
<pitti> ogra_: we have some MPs like https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/location-service/drop-sys-events/+merge/246050 to eliminate the need for the upstart system bridge
<ogra_> for mtp and adb i have worked on a new udev based system that doesnt rely on system jobs ... but there are still some issues
<ogra_> pitti, yeah, that broke the world
<pitti> ogra_: ok, so I think we are by and large on the same page about the outstanding issues
<ogra_> yeah
<pitti> $ cat .xsession-errors
<pitti> init: unrecognized option '--user'
<pitti> haha
<pitti> that might explain why the user session crashes :)
<ogra_> fun
<ogra_> i didnt even know we create that file :P
<ogra_> is the container running properly btw ?
<pitti> ogra_: yes, I already fixed that during the porting sprint
<ogra_> (there should be /init in your processlist)
<pitti> ogra_: I had the emulator working under systemd all the way up to unity8
<pitti> now I wanted to try on a real device
<ogra_> oh, nice !
<pitti> ogra_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10989309/ FYI
<ogra_> sweet !
<pitti> lxc-ls also says "android  RUNNING  -     -     -       NO"
<pitti> ogra_: so, next I'll figure out why the session crashes right away
<pitti> a phone is a tad more useful without just a black screen :-P
<ogra_> wow, i wasnt aware how much crap we run in the container ... that could use some cleanup
<pitti> is it? I thought we'd still use most of that
<ogra_> sdcrad service is definitely unused
<pitti> (ok, no idea what qcks is..)
<ogra_> debuggerd and installd too
<ogra_> hmm, i thought healthd was drooped ages ago
<ogra_> but probably ricardo just disabled its logging
<pitti> well, there's a wholly new wily release to upload fixes to :)
<ogra_> yeah, not sure we care enough for N4 to optimize that :)
<ogra_> its a workhorse for automation ... as long as it fulfills that purpose ...
<pitti> yay, that was an exceptionally simple fix
<ogra_> pitti, oh, and there is a UOS session about snappy-phone today ..
<pitti> unity8 starting fine now
 * pitti files https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/ubuntu-touch-session/systemd/+merge/258240
 * ogra_ approves
<pitti> ok, now port /etc/init/ofono.override and I should have a somewhat usable phone :)
<pitti> rockin', works
<pitti> 3G data and telephony
<pitti> ogra_: lxc-android-config is good old dput? no train?
<ogra_> yeah, but you need to check the train if some silo blocks it
<ogra_> if so, yu need to hold back til that silo is landed
<pitti> ogra_: yeah, I figure we need to wait anyway until wily is truly open and the CI train moved to it, etc.
<pitti> ogra_: I just wondered about doing an MP vs. just attaching a patch, etc.
<ogra_> yeah, just dput
<pitti> (FTR, there is a silo)
<ogra_> i think rsalveti has a landing pending for that package though
<ogra_> yeah
<pitti> not urgent
<ogra_> for tethering and WIFI AP support
<pitti> I'll just keep collecting bugs and patches/MPs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=systemd-boot-touch
<ogra_> though i'm not even sure if there will be wily silos at all for the phone
<ogra_> sounded to me like the phone is supposed to stay on vivid
<pitti> yeah, I understand we want to keep it vivid based, and then move to something snappyish for 16.04
<ogra_> so not sure how wily will get into play with all this
<pitti> well, we'll need some kind of vivid overlay, presumably we'll do a new RTM release?
<ogra_> we have a vivid overaly PPPA already
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> PPA
<pitti> but regardless where we'll upload to, I can still go ahead and collect patches/MPs there
<ogra_> (not private :) )
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> our landing processes are such a mess :/
 * ogra_ wishes we had something unique that suits all sides ... instead of multiple different ways to land something
<ogra_> ... always stepping on each others toes ...
<robin-hero> hi all! quick question. Does Facebook support notifications on the bq device with push client? Because I don't get notifications
<davmor2> robin-hero: no currently
<davmor2> not even
<robin-hero> then just Telegram supported, right?
<davmor2> robin-hero: and twitter
<robin-hero> oh, thanks.I mixed with it :)
<davmor2> robin-hero: you need a @<you> in twitter or a direct message for twitter to ping
<robin-hero> And make it in Facebook is more difficulty than Telegram?
<davmor2> robin-hero: I think there were issue with permissions on facebook so it was dropped.
<ogra_> davmor2, i wonder why we expose facebook in the notification settings then ... we should hide it if it doesnt work
<davmor2> ogra_: remnants of a happier time ;)  No idea to be honest maybe pete-woods might know more I think this is you right pete?
<ogra_> well, sounds liek a bug to me :)
<robin-hero> Remainders are listed there too.
<robin-hero> *Remainder
<pete-woods> davmor2: unfortunately I am responsible for none of facebook, notifications or online accounts
<davmor2> pete-woods: why the hell did I think it was you then I'll go back to sleep :)
<pete-woods> davmor2: I thought MacSlow|lunch was the notifications guy
<pete-woods> davmor2: and mardy is the online accounts person
<pete-woods> although maybe we need the system settings guy
<pete-woods> really don't know for sure
<davmor2> pete-woods: yeah but I thought it was the indicator that triggered them via messaging indicator
<pete-woods> davmor2: oh right, well if it's indicators then maybe charles might be the right person
<pete-woods> I only really do the network indicator
<davmor2> pete-woods: yeah not sure about the pulling in bit though E:TOO_MANY_MOVING_PARTS
<davmor2> ogra_: I will return to my default, it's your fault :P  Fix it :D
<ogra_> well ...
<seb128> ogra_, davmor2, the notifications entry for facebook is coming from the facebook webapp click
<seb128> it's a push-helper hook from the click
<ogra_> seb128, right, well, the apps shouldnt enable that helper if they cant use it
<seb128> ogra_, right, just pointing to the component that need to be changed ;-)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> pitti, oooh, i didnt know the main blocker was firmware loading with 3.4
<ogra_> if it is just that ... we even forecfully diverted the udev rule for firmware handlin to leave all that to the container
<robin-hero> is it possible that my phone discharging faster with turned off wifi/mobil data than with everything are turned on?
<cwayne> robin-hero, i recall seeing such a bug somewhere, that discharge was faster in flight mode for some reason
<robin-hero> cwayne: both tested without flight mode
<robin-hero> with turned on wifi/mobile data discharing ~1% at night, with turned off it is about 4%.
<cyphermox> mpt: tvoss: sounds indeed like something that could be solved by content-hub, even when it comes to displaying a list of known certificate data objects for the user. presumably there wouldn't be many of them
<cyphermox> this of course depends on content-hub being able to return a list of certificate objects from wherever they may be stored when copied to the system via MTP or otherwise
<tvoss> cyphermox, the content hub is file based, but that isn't an actual limitation
<cyphermox> tvoss: what do you mean?
<cyphermox> file based is fine, the certificates are files
<tvoss> cyphermox, yup, the list is displayed by a different app, though
<cyphermox> I'm saying "object" here because it can be varying types of files
<tvoss> cyphermox, yup, I think we are in agreement here
<cyphermox> ok
<sturmflut-work> Is there any documentation on "ubuntu-device-flash core"?
<elopio> bfiller: meeting?
<sturmflut-work> Hmmm. "ubuntu-device-flash touch --bootstrap --developer-mode --password=1234 --recovery-image /tmp/recovery.img" does not work on the production bq E4.5 device. It flashes the device, using the temporary ADB-enabled recovery image, but when the device comes up with the welcome wizard ADB is not enabled.
<jgdxx> pitti, hey, how's it going?
<dobey> sturmflut-work: is it not enabled, or is it blocked because it's not enabled until the device has been set up (seems like a reasonable expectation, but i am not sure if it works that way or not)?
<davmor2> sturmflut-work: you haven't set a channel so it won't know where to get the image from
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, do you have any recommended documentation/tutorial/example about content-hub hacking? also can you easily test c-h code on an u7 env?
<kenvandine> it works on u7, but not as well as on the phone
<kenvandine> mostly just app focus isn't as clean
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, good ... what about the first half of the question? ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, d.u.c has docs and i have some hub examples in my +junk that are more detailed
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+junk/hub-exporter
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+junk/hub-importer
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+junk/hub-sharer
<seb128> kenvandine, great
<pitti> hey jgdx; pretty well, thanks! how about yourself?
<sturmflut-work> dobey: Well, --developer-mode is supposed to be used to automatically install the device for automated testing, so I would expect that ADB gets enabled while the welcome wizard is displayed. The Touch Wiki even has an entry on how to do this, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing#Preparation
<jgdx> pitti, I'm well, thanks. Thing quited down for you yet? :)
<pitti> jgdx: well, -ish; release sprint, post-release high-urgency regression bugs, now UOS :)
<pitti> jgdx: I still have the two NM mock pull requests on my TODO list
<sturmflut-work> davmor2: You don't need to specify a channel, it will automatically pick the default one for the attached device.
<pitti> in case you want to ping about those
<jgdx> pitti, :) Okay. Any estimate? We're really eager to release it
<jgdx> *it being the thing depending on the new mocking
<pitti> jgdx: is it urgent?
<pitti> jgdx: oh? you can always modify an existing mock or ship a local one?
<pitti> (and you have to for vivid anyway
<jgdx> pitti, that's fine as long as it lands in your repo and gets a review from you
<pitti> jgdx: yes, absolutely; I just wasn't aware that it's blocking something (and it shouldn't)
<pitti> sorry for the delay! (too much stuff is happening.. :-) )
<jgdx> pitti, dbusmock was one of four blockers :) Now it's one of three.
<cylonmath2> how i can switch to my other sim?
<ogra_> cylonmath2, in the system settings or in the dialer app
<ogra_> (first permanent, second temporaray i think)
<cylonmath2> thats the problem
<cylonmath2> i could not find the setting
<cylonmath2> ahhh okay i guess i gotta restart
<ogra_> in the cellular settings you pick the default
<ogra_> oh, yeah, i dont think it supports hotswapping of SIMs yet
<cylonmath2> thats not an urgent feature i would say
<ogra_> yeah, i guess you dont swpa them out very often
<ogra_> *swap
<cylonmath2> thx! it works now
<ogra_> :)
<elopio> rickspencer3: the argument is object_name, not objectName.
 * elopio updates the docs.
<rickspencer3> whoops
<rickspencer3> :)
 * rickspencer3 tries
<elopio> balloons: any idea why the signature of the method shows instance, *args, **kwargs ?
<elopio> this is the definition: def click_element(self, object_name, direction=None):
<elopio> seems like sphinx going nuts.
<balloons> elopio, right, that's what I was trying to get him to do.. but anyone, not sure
<balloons> I can rebuild the docs
<balloons> let me just do a quick rebuild and see what they say
<rickspencer3> seems like it shouldn't be "objectName" in some places, and "object_name" other places
<rickspencer3> but, in any case, it works now ;)
<balloons> elopio, I tried to simplify and fix rick's __init__.py and launching: lp:~nskaggs/+junk/flash2
<elopio> that should probably be an alias. Everywhere we take object_name we should accept objectName.
<elopio> it's weird to mix the qml code style with the python code style.
<balloons> indeed.. camelcase style vs underscores
<balloons> can we do a highlevel alias for that?
<elopio> balloons: not really. highest level we can do is a decorator.
<elopio> I would just add a statement everywhere in the api where we accept object_name.
<balloons> elopio, the new build looks the same
<balloons> err, wait.. no args, kargs is gone
<elopio> balloons: yes, we need to dig into sphinx to see wtf.
<balloons> let me push this
<balloons> the parameters of objectName is still off
<balloons> but again, honestly you shouldn't need to use the object_name="blah" style
<elopio> what would be cool is to receive any *args and **kwargs, and pass them to autopilot.
<elopio> we can do it backwards compatible by the object_name alias objectName.
<elopio> good ideas to play during the following weeks.
<balloons> ok, page is updated
<balloons> let's get bugs open and tagged then
<elopio> balloons: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/fix1451945-click_element_doc/+merge/258287
<elopio> for now.
<balloons> rickspencer3, I changed your __init__.py around to making launching saner and added in a helper class for the app: lp:~nskaggs/+junk/flash2
<balloons> that's more or less how I would setup things
<balloons> merge it and see if you like / makes sense
<dobey> mzanetti: hey, is there a bug for that weird netowrk routing issue you were talking about last week at the sprint? i tried vivid and hit the same issue
<mzanetti> dobey, there are a couple of bugs, yes. let me try to find them
<mzanetti> dobey, this one might be yours: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1307981
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1307981 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "[touch] randomly messed up routing" [High,Incomplete]
<mzanetti> dobey, read the last comment though
<dobey> i'm not sure that is the issue i was seeing
<dobey> for me, after a while, the route would just be completely empty. and turning on wifi would have a route, but only for LAN IPs and no default route for 0.0.0.0
<dobey> and turning on flight mode, the [H] icon would stay in the indicator
<ogra_> thats an ancient bug ...
<ogra_> you won the lottery :)
<ogra_> (no route at all is a rare occurence ... there are multiple bugs btw)
<dobey> it wasn't rare for me :)
<brunch875> oooo will we be starting to get convergence with wily?
<ogra_> kind of
<brunch875> nniiiijsse
<ogra_> might not be available before wily + 0.5
<ogra_> but the work starts right now :)
<speck84> Hiya all.
<speck84> I currently working on a HTML5 app does it somebody know how to setup the app to not make it resizable?
<dobey> speck84: #ubuntu-app-devel is probably a better place for app dev questions :)
<speck84> ok thx
<extraymond> Hi! everyone! It seems that I can't use gps on v186 on nexus4 (mako), is that normal?
#ubuntu-touch 2015-05-06
<Mi> got any idea porting Colorfly G708 to Ubuntu-Touch guys ? it's cheapest tablet actually, but with high spec
<Mo> Hi, which window manager is used for touch? Can I find some information about the details of Ubuntu Touch before installing?
<Mo> On https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/porting-new-device/ I see, Mir is the X11 replacement. Is there some place with bundled information?
<k1l> its MIR + unity8 on ubuntu touch
<Mo> k1l: Can I use those with other Linux Distributions?
<k1l> unity8 seems to be bundled to mir. and only ubuntu seems to be going to use mir, most other linux distros are going to use wayland after x11
<davmor2> Mo: unity8 and mir combined provide it
<k1l> i dont know how difficult it is to run mir+unity8 on other distros. maybe someone in here tried that
<Mo> I'm running a All-in-one Gentoo-Desktop with Xfce4. To use the touch feature I'm looking for a better Window Manager or Display Server.
<k1l> ah yeah, the regular desktops are not really usable with touch so far.
<Mo> X has bad touch support, it has multi-touch afaik, but the WMs don't support it, at least Xfce doesn't.
<Mo> k1l: So can't I just install ubuntu touch on that amd64? Most releases are pre-compiled/packaged for special devices like Nexus, or the inofficial ones (some day I'm going to try on my Asus Transformer Pad).  but there is no universal install for the amd64 instead of Ubuntu desktop.
<Mo> Or can I just just the Mir/Unity-8 touch features on Ubuntu desktop?
<Mo> ..just use..
<jgdx> since there's no official way yet, there's no "just"
<tvoss> Mo, we have got desktop next images, probably best to look for those
<tvoss> willcooke, ^
<Mo> Moreover I would like to try as Live-Distribution first, how it feels like.
<k1l> Mo: mir+unity8 is not ready for the desktop, yet. its only running on smartphones. so you can test with the "desktop next" iso. but dont expect a fully working thingy for desktops since its a development iso
<Mo> desktop next? Is that some Ubuntu release?
<k1l> yes
<Mo> Supporting  Phones would be harder than Desktops, so what works on Phones should work on Desktop as well. Then any Tablet release would fit for Desktop screen size as well, no?
<k1l> Mo: you are making it to easy than it actually is.
<Mo> Ok.
<Mo> is there some central website for desktop next? I just find the downloads. Is desktop next a live-system already?
<Mo> live meaning, an iso I can start?
<k1l> yes
<willcooke> What's your use case here Mo?
<Mo> [10:36] <Mo> I'm running a All-in-one Gentoo-Desktop with Xfce4. To use the touch feature I'm looking for a better Window Manager or Display Server.
<willcooke> Then desktop next wont help you
<willcooke> If you run desktop next you also run Unity 8 and Mir
<willcooke> and the relatively limited apps therein
<willcooke> Unity 7 has better touch support than xfce4
<Mo> willcooke: I like to look what is possible. I like to install some Ubuntu touch if it supports amd64 desktops as well and is a full desktop featured distribution.
<willcooke> oki, if you just want to give it a spin, then http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop-next/daily-live/current/
<Mo> Why won't desktop next help me?
<Mo> Ok, I'll try..
<willcooke> because its for testing and playing with Unity 8 on a desktop, not for doing actual work yet
<willcooke> Like, if you're expecting a full featured desktop env.
<willcooke> then you will find it missing some bits you want
<Mo> Then about touch in general, thinking about replacing Android on my TF700T... This question isnt't in the FAQ: Is there some App Market? Can I use any Linux application available on Ubuntu Desktop? Can it run Android Apps?
<willcooke> Yes, there is an app market
<willcooke> No you cant use Android apps
<willcooke> And regarding "any linux application"
<willcooke> kinda
<willcooke> There is a thing called Xmir (which is in a new ppa and being tested now)
<Mo> willcooke: Gentoo provides Unity and Mir via the Unity-Overlay. After trying I can still use these things beside my current daily applications, that some are GTK and some Qt, some KDE.
<willcooke> Eventually Gtk and Qt/Kde apps will run natively on Mir
<Mo> willcooke: So applications must support Mir to work on Mir (without the new Xmir)? So Qt applications for X won't work in general on Mir?
<willcooke> for everything else there's Xmir
<Mo> ok
<willcooke> We have Mir backends for Qt and Gtk so they'll work once well
<k1l> willcooke: btw: do you already know when snapp packages will be enabled on the desktop next image?
<willcooke> s/once/<null>
<willcooke> k1l, So the current desktop next image will stop being updated to be replaced with a Snap version Real Soon Now (probably a few weeks to a month)
<willcooke> and then Snaps will work
<k1l> willcooke: ok, thanks. i am curious to test the snappy setup :)
<willcooke> k1l, in the early days it will be one big image, where apps etc are in the image, but then as we mature the platform then those will turn in to snaps
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy No Homework Day! ð
<mr2515_> JamesTait: Morning!
<leonmortiba> good morning
<sturmflut-work> Comments welcome: https://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/touch/2015/05/06/hacking-ubuntu-touch-part-2-devices-and-images/
<JamesTait> Morning, sturmflut-work!
<mcphail> Is there an easy way to contribute a ringtone to UT?
<jgdx> mcphail, propose against      lp:ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-touch-sounds
<ogra_> mcphail, file a wishlist bug against the ubuntu-touch-sounds package
<jgdx> that's the more diplomatic route :p
<mcphail> jgdx: ogra_: Thanks :)
<ogra_> yeah, both will work :)
<jgdx> mcphail, here's some info on the current tones: bug 1239612
<ubot5> bug 1239612 in ubuntu-touch-sounds (Ubuntu) "New ringtone and notification sounds for 13.10 mobile" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239612
<jgdx> pete-woods, sometimes my sim is not unlocked, and I can't unlock it manually (from indicator or settings).
<jgdx> it's like the private connectivity service silently fails
<pete-woods> jgdx: the SIM unlock codepaths are pretty scary, so sadly this doesn't surprise me :(
 * jgdx puts fingers in ears and hums
<pete-woods> it's like we talk to an inobvious dbus api (ofono), pump out a message to the notification service saying, "here's a gmenu export and some actions", then unity8 connects to the gmenu endpoints, shoves some stuff in, hopefully calls all the right actions, then we ship this data back off to ofono
<jgdx> pete-woods, same as the indicator pre your refactor? Not using qtdbus?
<pete-woods> jgdx: the problem really lies in the complexity of the architecture
<pete-woods> and because it's gmenu, we have a mix of qdbus and gdbus
<pete-woods> it makes it so hard to know you're doing the right thing
<pete-woods> like, I'd really like to say "give me a SIM unlock dialogue" so some pre-canned nice bit of Qt / QML API
<pete-woods> but the reality is it spans across like 5 classes
<pete-woods> there's probably a bug in the code, sure
<pete-woods> and it's much simpler post-qdbus
<pete-woods> but still there's a lot of room for screwups
<pete-woods> writing the tests for SIM unlock took literally over a week
<pete-woods> just to figure out how it all hangs together
<pete-woods> and we still can't work out how to test the cancel button
<jgdx> does it help that the dbusmock ofono template is really spartan? :p
<pete-woods> well we had to fill in a bunch of missing stuff there
<pete-woods> which is fine
<jgdx> who'd you ask for the unlock dialogue anyway?
<pete-woods> it pre-dates me working on the project
<pete-woods> I've only been on it a month
<jgdx> ideally, where would that lie?
<pete-woods> the SDK maybe?
<pete-woods> I just don't like having to construct it via "convention" using magic gmenu incantations
<pete-woods> which the shell interprets as SIM unlock please
<pete-woods> I want a nice async qt API for it
<pete-woods> like you'd expect for opening a Qt dialogue box
<jgdx> this probablt falls outside the scope of the sdk
<pete-woods> yeah, that's fair enough
<pete-woods> we've basically created the API I want to talk to, inside the indicator itself
<pete-woods> realistically my views about notifications / dialogues are not going to be addresses, anyway
<pete-woods> *addressed
<pete-woods> so I just need to shut up and fix the bug in the indicator, wherever it lies
<jgdx> so is the private connectivity api put in the indicator just because it was easy? It's already running and is privileged etc
<jgdx> anyway, if I can help, let me know pete-woods. I see it from time to time, and I am happy to run experimental/debugging indicator-network code
<pete-woods> jgdx: thanks. if there's anything you can find that increases the chances of it happening, that'd be great to know
<jgdx> pete-woods, i've seen it a couple of times when ofono needs to reprovision apns. Not sure if that pertinent though.
<pete-woods> jgdx: could well be. for all I know the bug is in qofono. but without being able to reproduce it, I've had a very hard time figuring out what's wrong
<sturmflut-work> barry: Ping
<sturmflut-work> Can anybody explain to me how http://paste.ubuntu.com/10997080/ is to be interpreted? It's the flash partition layout of the bq E4.5, why do eleven partitions point to the block device itself (mmcblk0)? Are those flash regions at the beginning of the block device, before the "actual" partitions? Or are these fake entries for something special?
<barry> sturmflut-work: pong
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-Developers-Working-to-Use-Systemd-on-Ubuntu-Touch-480326.shtml
<peat-psuwit> Why NetworkManager says that wlan interface is 'managed' if it appear after NetworkManager is started?
<brunch875> Hello!
<sturmflut-work> ogra_: Ping
<ogra_> whats up ?
<sturmflut-work> ogra_: I want to look at the initrd that is part of the krillin recovery.img. So I went an used "abootimg -x recovery.img", and the initrd is extracted to initrd.img, but it doesn't have any known file format. It's suposed to be gzip, but it's not.
<sturmflut-work> ogra_: Any idea?
<ogra_> sturmflut-work, not really, ask janimo or ondra, i'm not sure how these files are post processed ... the recovery initrd is an android one though
<sturmflut-work> ondra, janimo: Ping
<sturmflut-work> ogra_: Thanks
<ondra> sturmflut-work use android tools
<ondra> sturmflut-work recovery image is packed as android, so you need to split it from kernel and the gzip + cpio to get recovery ramdisk out
<janimo> sturmflut-work, dd if=initrd.img of=newinitrd.img  bs=512 skip=1
<ogra_> ah, a header :)
<janimo> ogra_, right, as some uboot images used to append on dev arm boards supported by ubuntu
<janimo> prepend actually
<ogra_> well, these are usually recognized by file
<sturmflut-work> janimo: Argh, thanks. One would expect that "abootimg-unpack-initrd" knows about this.
<ogra_> sturmflut-work, no, it expects plain ubuntu initrds
<ogra_> what you have there is actually a uInitrd file for u-boot
<janimo> the android build tools in this specific tree add some extra headers, like ROOTFS/RECOVERY/BOOTIMG, not sure what else is there though
<brunch875> Does the browser keep session when downloading file? Downloads fail  for a website which requires login.
<brunch875> I think it's a browser issue since it doesn't work on the desktop version of the browser either.
<soothran> hey people!
<soothran> i am thinking about starting a porting project just for fun..
<soothran> or is a port available fro moto e?
<soothran> *for
<soothran> how does ubuntu phone booting work?
<soothran> the different steps, i mean
<tvoss> ogra_, do you happen to have the porting guide link handy for soothran?
<ogra_> no, but the channel topic does ;)
 * genii considers https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/porting-new-device/
<soothran> thanks
<soothran> but i was more interested in my second questions - which is details about booting process in ubuntu phone
<ogra_> what do you want to know ?
<kissiel> popey, hello, still online?
<popey> kissiel: yeah, I'm in a hangout session right now
<soothran> the whole process of booting if possible
<soothran> like what happens in each step..
<soothran> etc
<kissiel> popey, I got another checkbox-touch I want to push to the store :) https://launchpad.net/checkbox-touch/trunk/1.1.2/+download/com.ubuntu.checkbox_1.1.2_multi.click relnotes: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10997977/
<popey> ok
<kissiel> popey, thx, no rush
<popey> kissiel: it fails
<kissiel> popey, fails what?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10997988/
<kissiel> popey, click-review?
<popey> click-reviewer-tools
<ogra_> soothran, its not different from an ubuntu PC ... bootloader loads kernel, kernel loads initrd ... the slight differnce to a PC is the mounting of the rootfs that happens from the initrd to gain a few writable files on top of the readonly rootfs
<popey> kissiel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-reviewers-tools/+bug/1395204
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1395204 in Canonical Click Reviewers tools "Click review rejects multi-arch clicks" [High,Fix released]
<kissiel> interesting
<popey> dholbach: ^
<ogra_> soothran, oh, and i forgot ... preparing the mounts for the android container that gets started later in the boot
<dholbach> popey, what am I looking at? a multi click failing review with the most current review tools?
<popey> yes
<popey> the click is linked above
<dholbach> popey, I don't think you're using the latest
<popey> Now on revision 457.
<popey> i am
<popey> my script pulls latest from bzr every time I run it
 * popey updates the chroot in which he does this
<popey> no updates
<soothran> @ogra thanks! is there a documentation or something on it?
<dholbach> popey, here's what I see: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10998030/
<ogra_> soothran, linked from the porting guide i think
<kissiel> popey, I've run click-review from r457 and it doesn't complain about that problem...
<popey> hmmm
 * popey re-runs
<popey> still fails
<kissiel> um, weird :D
<popey> on utopic
<dholbach> i can create a utopic chroot and test it there if you want....
<popey> or i can upgrade mine to vivid
<soothran> @orga how about the Ubuntu phone? guess it is same like in Ubuntu PC?
<kissiel> popey, I ran the r457 on utopic as well
 * popey upgrades
<popey> oh
<popey> wtf
<kissiel> popey, tho I might have a mess with imports and it pulls some stuff from the installed version
<kissiel> gimme a sec
<popey> ok, running it on my vivid laptop not in a chroot works
<popey> ignore me
<dholbach> ok, cool
<dholbach> glad it works
<popey> thanks guys
<kissiel> popey, so we're good?
<popey> kissiel: published
<kissiel> popey, yuppiedo
<popey> :)
<popey> how did you make that multi-package kissiel ?
<popey> manually or automagically?
<kissiel> popey, $ click build :)
<popey> you use qmake?
<kissiel> popey, nope, just click build $path
<kissiel> popey, we just have qml + python
<popey> uh
<ogra_> soothran, hmm, i thought https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ContainerArchitecture was actually linked from the portin guide ... seems it is not
<popey> do you ship with python binaries?
<popey> hang on, easier if I just rip the click apart and look at it :)
<kissiel> yep ...
<soothran> so does ubuntu phone use Android LXC container?
<soothran> @ ogra Android LXC container
<dobey> yes, there's a container which contains some android components which must be run
<ogra_> soothran, yes ?
<ogra_> well, it uses lxc to run a container that contains we few bits of the android HAL ... the bits that are needed to make use of the binary drivers
<soothran> @ogra so does ubuntu phone use Android LXC container?
<ogra_> it doesnt use android-lxc or some such
<ogra_> it is a normal ubuntu system that fires up a container to use the sensors, gps, camera and graphics drivers ... you could run the phone witrhout it but then you couldnt use any of these components ... (i.e. as a headless server or whatever)
<dobey> well i guess wifi might not work without, so might be difficult to have a server with no network :)
<dobey> depending on hardware of course
<ogra_> wifi works without the container up on all our devices currently
<popey> usb to go ethernet adapter :)
<awe> ogra_, not true... hybris is required for power control on MTK devices
<ogra_> but yeah, really depends if your WIFI firmware perhaps lives inside the container for your port
<ogra_> awe, i can ssh into my phone if the container isnt up
<dobey> over usb, or over wifi?
<ogra_> well, i could once ... havent tried that in a long time
<awe> sure, if you mean "works good enough for development"
<ogra_> dobey, wifi
<awe> but if you want full power control ( ie. for airplane mode, battery savings, hybris may be required on some devices )
<ogra_> iirc there was someone who ran a tomcat server on a headless N4 :)
<ogra_> with the whole container removed ...
<awe> that sounds wrong
<awe> ;D
<ogra_> haha, yeah
<ogra_> people are crazy like that
<dobey> well, i guess one could maybe run on a freerunner or something with latest kernel and no container as full real ubuntu arm server maybe
<ogra_> yeah
<soothran> hmm
<dobey> android phones are a pain though, because it depends on manufacturers releasing the driver kit for the phone
<ogra_> soothran, so if you do a port you effectively need to port the driver framework of your phone that we then put into a container so ubuntu can make use of the drivers (once the container is started in the boot process)
<pundir> cyphermox, hi, how tightly bound this mtp implementation https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mtp is to the Android USB gadget driver?
<pundir> can it work with a generic MTP configfs driver as such? or is it too much to ask for :)?
<Se7> hellou all
<soothran> @ogra thanks!
<cyphermox> pundir: I think it should work as long as you have /dev/mtp pointing to some usb device that can do mtp (or if you edit the code to use another path), but best is to test it
<pundir> cyphermox, so there is no hard dependency of ubuntu's mtp-server on Android's sys class, /sys/class/android_usb/android0, entries?
<pundir> and what about Android usb uevents? does mtp-server use those uevents in any way?
<ogra_> there definitely is such a dependency in the upstart jobs
<ogra_> you would have to adjust them
<pundir> and finally what about sys.config.usb property dependencies?
<ogra_> same thing
<pundir> ogra_, ok
<cyphermox> pundir: not that I remember, except for the upstart job, as ogra mentioned
<cyphermox> pundir: that said, it expects some property stuff to start up, yes
<ogra_> not in the daemon itself though
<cyphermox> I think it will possibly silently ignore things
<ogra_> you should be able to use the binary in non android context ... but will have to use your own upstart/init jobs
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> so, as long as property_get doesn't outright crash as it may have done in the past, you should be fine
<ogra_> oh, and i think the binary is tied into the greeter, no ?
<cyphermox> I mean, as long as it doesn't crash on non-hybris, x86 or whatever and instead respects that there is a default value set
<cyphermox> ogra_: yes
<ogra_> doing a dbus call
<ogra_> so you are kind of bound to unity8
<cyphermox> well, a lot of it can be easly ripped out
<ogra_> sure
<cyphermox> (or better yet, made into optional features with a runtime switch)
<cyphermox> pundir: all of it (the path to the device, dbus calls, property_get) are in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/mtp/trunk/view/head:/server/server.cpp
<cyphermox> so, yay, only one place to change things. :)
<pundir> Great!! so i'll take it as something which may not be difficult to pull off then.
<pundir> thanks for the link.
<pundir> cyphermox, ogra_ so the background is that Android USB composite gadget is on its way out from 3.14 kernel onwards
<pundir> and aosp already have mtp/ptp/audio_accessory..  drivers implemented as configfs gadget.
<pundir> it works on android with some userspace hacking
<cyphermox> pundir: since it's all in one file, you should probably be able to add some argument parsing in main() to toggle things, and pass what you want to d->run()
<ogra_> pundir, well, once we switch to a newer android base we will likely have to adapt then
<pundir> I just want to make sure that it is generic enough to be able to go to upstream kernel
<pundir> and can work on generic linux like ubuntu-touch (or mer I believe?)
<ogra_> upstream as in linus ... or as in android ?
<pundir> ogra_, linus. it is already in aosp/android-3.14 and aosp/android-3.18 trees
<ogra_> well, we are currently bound to kitkat with all phones ...
<ogra_> once we switch to lollipop we will have to adjust ... but we dont have any device using a mainline linus kernel currently
<pundir> cyphermox, ogra_ sorry for this noob question but which kernel is currently supported on ubuntu-touch platform?
<pundir> And how much effort is it to get ubuntu-touch working on a newer device or dev board lets say?
<ogra_> pundir, whatever the android tree of a device provides
<pundir> for this mtp-server experiment lets say
<cyphermox> I think it currently depends on which device?
<ogra_> pundir, we are bound to the binary drivers from android ... some hardcode oaths or kernel interfaces yoou only find in that particular kernel code
<pundir> cyphermox, ogra_ is it possible to boot ubuntu-touch with a minimal shell only profile?
<ogra_> so we usually use the AOSP vendor tree, rip out 95% (everythin but the HAL), add libhybris and are done ...
<pundir> and still be able to do mtp stuff?
<ogra_> pundir, sure
<pundir> great
<pundir> thats what i'm looking for then.
<ogra_> as i raved about ~1h ago :) you can run ubuntu phones completely without the android container
<ogra_> as a headless system
<pundir> yay!!
<pundir> and if I'm running it without android container then it pretty much guarantees to run on any recent kernel version as well, right?
<pundir> I dont need a stable system to do any UI or fancy stuff.. i'll just boot to shell and fire up mtp-daemon/service
<ogra_> sure ... even with the container ...
<ogra_> the container would likely just fail to start gracefully
<ogra_> lxc-init can do such stuff ;)
<pundir> Great!! so how do I get started then?
<ogra_> grab a nexus4 ... i think thats the easiest device to tinker with ... build a kernel you get to boot ... then ... well ... do what you want :)
<pundir> is it possible to run it on a development board just like a regular linux distro?
<pundir> i dont have a Nexus4..
<pundir> I have a Galaxy Nexus, Nexus9/7 if it helps?
<ogra_> the nexus7 has an image (2013 version only) that you could use to start from
<Z3> Hi, is there a release date for the "docking mode" on Ubuntu Touch?
<ogra_> Z3, end of the year there should be a first device with the first iteration of that feature
<Z3> ogra_ and for Nexus 4?
<ogra_> (as announced on monday by marks opening talk of the ubuntu online summit that is currently going on)
<ogra_> not sure anyone will build such an image for the N4, but once the phone is released you can surely hack up the image to work on the N$ (and send patches etc)
<ogra_> i doubt anyone from canonical will actually work on this on the N4 but community patches will indeed be accepted
<pundir> ogra_, thanks i'l try it on Nexus 7
<Z3> thank you very much. I have another question:      I don't like Unity, so in Ubuntu desktop I can install the ubuntu classic desktop and use and "old" desktop. Will something like this be possible on Android? A "classic" desktop like Android
<Z3> sorry, I mean:
<Z3> will something like this be possible on Ubuntu Touch?
<Z3> modify desktops and install whatever you like, just like you do in regular pcs
<ogra_> the phone uses Mir ...
<ogra_> so you would need a desktop env that can make use of it
<Z3> I understand, it would be nice a "classic" alternative for people that don't like Unity
<ogra_> i could imagine once the lxde Qt implementation is done you could perhaps run it instead of unity8
<ogra_> notr sure though
<dobey> the converged phone won't run a different environment on the external display. it will be the same interface. i doubt you'd want to use a "classic" alternative as the main interface when trying to use your phone as a phone
<Z3> dobey I think in a "classic" desktop like Android. Just a desktop and icons. I just want that
<dobey> if lxde qt had a decent interface in phone mode and worked with the system to be a client for scopes and such, it could maybe be useful
<ogra_> dobey, oh, i didnt notice anything about "useful" in the question :)
<dobey> i guess you could write a shell that was like android and build your own images if you wanted
<dobey> ogra_: well, i presume if one wants a phone to be usable as a pc as well, they'd want it to be somewhat useful in both modes :)
<dobey> otherwise you can just install an armhf build of the ubuntu ISO today if you really wanted to :)
<ogra_> right
<Z3> I can't do that alone ... I was thinking in the equivalent of desktop world, where you have gnome, kde, lxde and others ... and you can choose whatever you like more
<Z3> I don't see we can't have that on mobiles too
<Z3> thank you all for the information
<Z3> :)
<morphis> rsalveti: what is the best way to rebuild the kernel for the n4 with ubuntu touch? is this done in the aosp tree or is the kernel part of the archive?
<ogra_> morphis, in the archive
<ogra_> search for linux mako
<ogra_> just apt-get source it (there is a git tree at kernel.ubuntu.com too somewhere)
<morphis> ogra_: and then just cross build the package?
<rsalveti> yeah, easier is getting the sources and cross building it
<rsalveti> the android package pulls the kernel binaries (from the package), and then makes that available as part of the image
<morphis> rsalveti: ah
<morphis> rsalveti, ogra_: so https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/vivid/linux-mako/vivid should be the latest, right?
<rsalveti> yeah, that's the auto-import branch
<rsalveti> the real source code for it is in a git repo
<rsalveti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-mako
<rsalveti> the src package
<rsalveti> hm, where is the gitweb for it
<rsalveti> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/
<rsalveti> changed but not showing the vivid kernel
<rsalveti> actually, it is
<rsalveti> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-vivid.git/log/?h=mako
<rsalveti> there you go
<morphis> ah good
<morphis> and that will generate me a fastboot'able image?
<ogra_> no, that will generate a zImage
<ogra_> (or vmlinuz or how you want to call it)
<ogra_> you can grab the boot.img from the device and use abootimg from the archive to replace the kernel in there
<morphis> ogra_: ok, that was my alternate
<morphis> ogra_: but how is the fastboot image then generated for the deployment?
<ogra_> to actually prodcue the boot.img you would have to build the android tree
<morphis> is that a special job somewhere?
<morphis> ah right
<ogra_> apt-get source android
<ogra_> ;)
<morphis> so you still take the the android initrd and put that into the kernel?
<ogra_> no, we use an ubuntu initrd for booting
<morphis> but bundling that in the android-build ... I see
<ogra_> there is an android initrd that we unpack on the fs to use for the lxc container
<morphis> yeah I know
<ogra_> (since in android the initrd is actually the rootfs)
<morphis> the one which has the init.rc files
<ogra_> right, it is shipped in the device tarball and unpacked to /var/lib/lxc/android/rootfs/
<morphis> ok
<dobey> anyone else seen issues with SMS where messages would be delivered way late, and out of order?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Question, I heard click packages where moving to snappy, what does this mean and why are they changing?
<ogra_> ChloeWolfieGirl, thats still far out and it will hapen transparently in the store i was told
<dobey> snappy is the new format that will replace the click format. so at some point they will change. but should be relatively transparent to users/developers when it happens
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Whats different between click and snappy?
<dobey> ogra_: well, part of it already happened, with the change in namespaces which happened for clicks too
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> ChloeWolfieGirl, they are integrated with snappy :)
<ogra_> click packages are not
<ogra_> ChloeWolfieGirl, and since all of ubuntu will eventually move to snappy that means you can use snappy server or desktop packages on your phone
<ogra_> (without making it writable or having to use debs)
<ChloeWolfieGirl> What does that mean :P I feel like I've missed out because I thought snappy was just for like servers and for small smart devices not including desktops and phones xD
<ogra_> snappy is the new ubuntu framework, replacing the old ways ...
<dobey> the problem there is that "snappy" is being used to refer to multiple things
<dobey> sort of like "chips" in australia. you have to use context to know which thing you're talking about :)
<ogra_> snap packages are kind of an evolution of the click packages ... with more abilities, more fine grained control etc
<ogra_> snappy images are kind of an evolution of the phone OS installation ... readonly rootfs with some writable bits ... buut also rollback functionality etc
<ChloeWolfieGirl> It just confused me cos I thought clicks where new and the future xD
<ogra_> so the phone simply will move to the next point in evolution
<ogra_> they were ... at some point :)
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Will snappy images affect devices ubuntu's ported to?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Like will there be port issues?
<ogra_> porting will become easier
<ogra_> the device bits of a snappy install live as snap packages in the store today
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Thats awesome :D But would it negativly affect previously ported devices?
<ogra_> so making a port (for snappy currently, phones might be a bit different) means you roll a kernel and device bits into a snap package
<ogra_> and just upload it to the store
<rsalveti> morphis: you could as well fetch the repos from https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/#/q/status:open,n,z
<rsalveti> which is basically how we create the android src package
<rsalveti> as part of the android build we produce a boot.img
<ChloeWolfieGirl> ogra_, that sounds pretty awesom :P
<rsalveti> that cdimage then makes it public at  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/pending/
<ogra_> ChloeWolfieGirl, so it is ... but thats still a bit away
<ogra_> and it is the reason the phone wont switch to wily
<ogra_> wily will become the playground to create a snappy based phone
<ogra_> while all UI development and bug fixes for the actual phone will happen on vivid
<ChloeWolfieGirl> ogra_, Aww, ok but making porting easier and better, I'm excited :P
<ogra_> well, it is also a requirement for the desktop mode and convergence
<ogra_> not only porting
<dobey> i'm both tempted, and afraid, to get snappy running on my wifi routers
<ogra_> it will be awesome
<ogra_> you can just install my fhem snap and make it control your heating alongside ;)
<ogra_> (or once we have it ... someones "nest" snap)
<ogra_> (or the VOIP server snap to turn it into a phone controller)
<lotuspsychje> https://erlerobotics.com/blog/erle-robotics-launches-ubuntu-snappy-core-drone/
<dobey> i think i might have a vonage voip box laying around somewhere
<dobey> unless i dumped it off to recycling
<ChloeWolfieGirl> This is gonna be interesting
<SturmFlut> Why not install the VOIP server snap on Erle drones and build our own mobile network
<Tassadar> because you probably want your network to last more than 15 minutes
<dobey> Tassadar: depends on what you're using it for ;)
<Tassadar> if you land it on a building, that could be okay)
<dobey> building will probably interfere with radio though
<dobey> but if you want an encrypted mesh wireless comms network that's only up when you need it, then drones that pop up for 10 minutes would probably be a reasonable thing
<Tassadar> I admit I have little experience with building imaginary drone-based networks)
<dobey> mandel: wtf do you have 3 0-line "rebuild" branches for the click scope? :P
<ogra_> he is on vacation this week ...
<dobey> ah
<taiebot> Thank you for the web-browser app not turning off the screen on vivid devel proposed \o/ when watching videos. Currently watching  uos videos without having to tap every 30sec on the screen
<mariogrip> ChloeWolfieGirl: Hi!
<ChloeWolfieGirl> mariogrip, Heya
<mariogrip> ChloeWolfieGirl: are you still running ubuntu on you opo?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> mariogrip, yeah haha xD
<mariogrip> ChloeWolfieGirl: awesome! how is battery life in ub vs android?
<mariogrip> ChloeWolfieGirl: hehe, i haven't run ubuntu for more then a hour without rebooting and re flashing :P
<mariogrip> that's why im asking
<ChloeWolfieGirl> mariogrip, Not to well tbh >.< It also sometimes gets quite warm, and if you turn it off by the pop-up it reboots after a few minuets and if you don't realise your battery has drained quite a bit
<mariogrip> ChloeWolfieGirl: okay, Thanks! :D well i have to take a look at that. i did't think it was that bad... :P
<ChloeWolfieGirl> Well I haven't used it a great amount outside of reddit since you cant install apps from the store yet, but its at 89% right now, so I'll record this time and I'll record how long it takes to go down by 10% screen off (only on for checking) so you have a better idea
<Perracomax> 7001Hi
#ubuntu-touch 2015-05-07
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Massive-Ubuntu-Touch-Update-Coming-to-Phones-and-Tablets-This-Summer-480379.shtml
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Roast Leg Of Lamb Day! ð
<PhilippeP> Poor lamb  :)
<john96> Does anyone know if native apps for email and xmpp IM are in development? I just gave ubuntu touch a go on my nexus 4 & found it quite nice to use.. but it just seems like the app ecosystem is too small at this point to be able to switch from android..
<davmor2> john96: dekko for email, no to xmpp
<davmor2> john96: if you go to the store an type in xmpp or email in the search box it should show anything in the works
<john96> davmor2: ok, thanks :)
<brunch875> HELLO!
<brunch875> Good morning everyone :)
<ChloeWolfieGirl> morn :3
<jgdx> morn' du
<jgdx> Elleo, hi, have you seen this [1] ? I'm running latest Arale and this is still a huge issue on the danish keyboard. [1] bug 1442365
<ubot5> bug 1442365 in ubuntu-keyboard "Auto capitalize allows for many capital letters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1442365
<Elleo> jgdx: heya, sounds like a duplicate of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard/+bug/1448145 which I'm working on at the moment
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1448145 in ubuntu-keyboard "[Ubuntu Phone] The first characters are always in uppercase in webapps" [High,Confirmed]
<Elleo> jgdx: do you have word suggestions and spell check disabled? and does it only happen in webapps
<Elleo> jgdx: if so it's that bug, if not then it's something else for me to worry about :P
<jgdx> Elleo, okay, yeah it might be a duplicate. This is in _all_ apps that allows for text editing that is not passwords, urls and other special types.
<Elleo> jgdx: QML apps as well as webapps?
<jgdx> Elleo, yeah, messaging app
<jgdx> e.g.
<Elleo> jgdx: then its a different bug
<jgdx> exact same symptoms though
<Elleo> jgdx: will try to reproduce as soon as my arale has enough charge to boot
<jgdx> Elleo, maybe ping me when you have a silo/package in ppa?
<Elleo> jgdx: well the other bug is due to an oxide bug, so will have a different fix to this one
<Elleo> jgdx: does it happen with any other language layouts?
<jgdx> Elleo, oh ok. I can check when my arale is charged.
<Elleo> jgdx: I can't reproduce it with Danish on my arale
<jgdx> Elleo, good
<Elleo> jgdx: well, not great, since I can't fix it without being able to reproduce it :P but at least it suggests it might not be widespread
<jgdx> Elleo, you said you can't. Hah, sorry :P
<jgdx> It needs maybe 3-5 tries?
<jgdx> But I can reproduce always.
<Elleo> jgdx: when you arale is charged could you double check to verify it definitely happens in QML and not just webapps?
<Elleo> yeah, I've been typing a bunch of words with fullstops between and haven't hit it yet
<jgdx> Elleo, yup, but it happens in the messaging app
<jgdx> you have to type quickly
<Elleo> yeah, I have been, even hitting keys simultaneously
<didrocks> cwayne: hey, so I'm getting on a fresh bq device bug #1446766
<ubot5> bug 1446766 in Today Scope "BQ device: On first boot, Today scope continually asks for Google account login after I have done so via Settings -> Accounts" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446766
<didrocks> cwayne: and even rebooting doesn't fix it (I installed the calendar app, sync it, reboot)
<didrocks> and I have the OOBE with "skip and setup later"
<cwayne> didrocks, click skip and setup later
<cwayne> click/tap
<didrocks> cwayne: shouldn't it remove the "configure an account" once it's done? (at least, the google one)
<didrocks> so yeah, dismissing works, but it seems it's not what the user would expect
<cwayne> didrocks, the google one was handled differently because it needed a bit more explanation, but yeah, I agree we may need to tweak the UX there a bit
<didrocks> cwayne: maybe we can recycle this bug report for this? I'm happy to update the description
<jgdx> awe, ping
<cwayne> didrocks, please do
<didrocks> cwayne: doing then, thanks!
<awe> jgdx, whatsup?
<jgdx> awe, do you have time to talk apn?
<awe> sure
<kenvandine> funny, i now get excited when i hear "apn" :-D
<kenvandine> i used to run like hell
 * jgdx dumps a branch on ken's porch and runs
<kenvandine> haha
<awe> fyi, although I haven't started the work for 'SetPref', I've been thinking about it, and will get going on a patch this afternoon hopefully
<jgdx> awe, when there are no preferred contexts, should settings set one? Isn't that ofono's job?
<awe> jgdx, my thoughts on that are no...
<jgdx> but uss ain't a service
<jgdx> uaas
<awe> if there are no preferred contexts, then it should just act as it does today
<awe> ( ie. NM tries APNs round-robin )
<DJJeff> why is nexus 5 not on the status spreedsheet
<DJJeff> and how come it has not been updated in ages
<jgdx> awe, I agree, so we don't pick one for the user if there is no preferred
<jgdx> s/is/are
<jgdx> however, that's a bit confusing, beucase the UI will have no green check in front of the active one
<jgdx> but then uss have to pick a preferred one, and that is â¦ hard
<awe> jgdx, correct.  NM picks one, as in the first one that works, is used
<awe> jgdx, why wouldn't the UI just show the currently active APN as selected if none are 'Preferred'?
<awe> is that hard to implement?
<jgdx> maybe
<awe> I suppose we *could* possibly change ofono to mark the context as 'Preferred' when activated
<awe> but I'd need to discuss with abeato when he's back
<awe> hmm, no that wouldn't work
<awe> that would defeat the initial round-robin behavior
<jgdx> but then we say that no preferred contexts is a good thing in some cases
<jgdx> and uss shouldn't pick one
<jgdx> it could just show a green tick besides the active one, but that is quite inconsistent in my mind
<jgdx> if I uncheck it, what does that mean?
<awe> jgdx, after initial unboxing, or after a new SIM is installed
<awe> having no preferred is a good thing
<jgdx> right
<awe> it lets the system try to auto-detect which APN to use if multiple inet APNs exist for the SIM
<awe> a user may then come along to uss
<awe> and say "use this one"
<awe> at that point we set pref
<awe> and that restricts nm to only use that apn from then on
<awe> even if it's broken/not working
<awe> otherwise we get the current unpredictable behavior
<awe> when a user tries to select a different apn
<awe> jgdx, can you point me at a silo or PPA so I can play around with the UI?
<awe> a lot has happened since our white-board re-design session
<jgdx> awe, phablet-team ppa, but you need to upgrade libqofono
<awe> is that in the ppa too?
<jgdx> no
<awe> where can i get it?
<awe> or could we push to the ppa too?
<jgdx> awe, hm, seems it landed in vivid
<awe> in vivid, or in -updates or -security?
<awe> do you have a version # for me?
<jgdx> to sec
<jgdx> two
<jgdx> awe, still in a silo, ubuntu/landing-029
<jgdx> looking for 0.70-0ubuntu3
<kenvandine> awe, jgdx: it is in the ppa
<awe> jgdx, ok.  we have net/telephony meeting in ~5m, then I will take a look this afternoon
<awe> kenvandine, libqofono?
<kenvandine> i copied it from the silo last week
<kenvandine> yes
<awe> cool
<awe> jgdx, I'll be on the uss hangout tomorrow too, so will take a look this afternoon as I start working on 'setpref'
<jgdx> kenvandine, thanks
<jgdx> awe, score
<jgdx> Elleo, http://i.imgur.com/LvF4pIo.gifv
<adit> Hello
<Elleo> jgdx: interesting, I wonder why I can't trigger it :/
<jgdx> Elleo, you probably don't have fat fingers with actual fat on them
<jgdx> I just ate chicken
<Elleo> heh
<jgdx> That's a word I often start with, and ~30% of the time, it's spelled out KAn
<Elleo> jgdx: ah, I've just managed to hit it once
<jgdx> what did you eat?
<Elleo> hehe
<Elleo> that should become part of the standard bug report template
<jgdx> lol
<supercom32> Newbie question: Is Ubuntu Touch compatible with any of the standard repos for installing software?
<Elleo> jgdx: think I'm getting the hang of this now, the timing has to be quite precise; it doesn't happen if you're too quick as well as being too slow
<jgdx> Elleo, now I feel sorry for bringing this up. "Reproduce: timing has to be just rightânot too slow, not too quick"
<jgdx> supercom32, yeah, a bunch! But the system is read only by default, so you can't install any packages.
<supercom32> jgdx: does that mean they don't support installing software on your phone? I'm not sure I understand how it works in that case.
<supercom32> jgdx: or do they just not support installing packages in that way?
<Elleo> supercom32: there's two parts of the system, the read-only system partition (which is where things installed via apt-get would go if you switch to read/write mode) and the read/write user partition, which is where normal phone apps (click packages) get installed
<Elleo> supercom32: so you can always install apps via the store, but if you want to install things via apt-get (and so potentially cause issues with the image based updates) you need to make the system partition read/write as well
<supercom32> elleo: I assume most programs are not made into click packages. Most of them are debs?
<Elleo> jgdx: marked that bug as confirmed, will see if we can get it scheduled in one of the upcoming sprints
<jgdx> Elleo, cool, thanks!
<Elleo> supercom32: well, all apps that are actually designed for the phone are packaged as clicks, but more general linux programs are mostly just debs
<supercom32> elleo: For example, if I wanted to install firefox, or java, I'd have to wait for a click package.
<Elleo> supercom32: yeah, and for any X11 apps you'd also need to wait for xmir support to be included in the images by default
<jgdx> and quite possibly an arm build
<Elleo> (there is a PPA that allows you to play around with xmir stuff already, but it's not quite ready for general usage yet)
<supercom32> For the newbie, what is xmir supposed to do? Give you an X11 compatibility layer?
<Elleo> jgdx: firefox and java at least are already in the vivid arm ports
<jgdx> cool
<Elleo> supercom32: yep, pretty much
<supercom32> Elleo: suppose xmir is already implemented, that still doesn't solve the packaging problem will it? That is, installing debs into the user area and not the system area?
<Elleo> supercom32: nope, those apps would still need to be repackaged as clicks (or in the near future snaps)
<Elleo> supercom32: the phone will soon be moving to snappy based packages/images (which are the next evolution of clicks) and there are tools being developed for automatically creating snaps from debs as I understand it
<supercom32> elloe: How long do you think until users can expect the same desktop experience on the phone? It sounds like there are two separate systems involved.
<supercom32> To be honest, I was hoping to install packages like I normally do on my desktop. Synaptic, apt-get etc, and just have it all work. With the exception of some base packages pre-installed for phone support.
<supercom32> Probably I was expecting too much lol.
<Elleo> supercom32: well, you can do that now; but it's not officially supported (and may cause you issues with updates), so it's available as an option for experimenters/developers already
<k1l_> yeah, that is not possible right now.
<k1l_> supercom32: and be aware that those programs are not made for touch.
<supercom32> k1l_: Right. I assume the user experience will be a little wonky in those cases.
<Elleo> supercom32: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3PUYoa1c9M <-- shows some of that working from a development perspective (libre office, netflix, etc. running under xmir)
<supercom32> Elleo: Ah sweet.
<Elleo> supercom32: I'm not sure the full timescale until we reach a state where the majority of non-touch apps are available for general users
<Elleo> supercom32: but Mark did announce that the first commercial device with some level of desktop convergence is likely to launch sometime this summer
<Elleo> supercom32: so at least some basic stuff might be available then
<k1l_> wasnt that more of a "end of this year"?
<Elleo> supercom32: there were discussions in some of yesterday's UOS sessions about some initial apps to get ported to clicks (I think libre office came up), but I wouldn't expect a lot of old apps to be in a ready state for a little while yet
<Elleo> k1l_: possibly, I could easily be misremembering
<Elleo> k1l_: ah yeah, looks like he just said "this year"
<Elleo> that sounds more plausible
<k1l_> yeah. summer would be somewhat early, imho
<pete-woods> Wellark_: hey! back from democracy
<morphis> rsalveti, ogra_: played a bit yesterday evening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11009869/
<ogra_> neat !
<morphis> bluez5 ahead :)
<rsalveti> morphis: nice
<morphis> rsalveti: not sure which way you wanted to go but that is one
<DonkeyHotei> now if only video playback could work on hammerhead
<ogra_> DonkeyHotei, fix it ... :)
<dobey> DonkeyHotei: you fixed all the other things?
<DonkeyHotei> ogra_: does this shed any light? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10696198/
<simosx> where can I get boot.img for the bq Aquaris? I need to apply it :-/
<simosx> found it, per https://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/touch/2015/05/06/hacking-ubuntu-touch-part-2-devices-and-images/
<rsalveti> morphis: what did you actually do with that kernel?
<morphis> rsalveti: CONFIG_BT=n
<morphis> thansen: then simply followed https://code.google.com/p/aosp-bluez/
<rsalveti> morphis: nice, yeah
<morphis> thansen: sorry, that should have gone to rsalveti  :)
<rsalveti> cool that is also available for flo
<rsalveti> morphis: we have bluez 5 in a ppa
<morphis> rsalveti: it's a very simple approach and works pretty well
<morphis> from what I remember there were only problems with suspend
<morphis> rsalveti: where is that ppa?
<rsalveti> looking
<rsalveti> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/transitions
<rsalveti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-v-bluez5
<morphis> rsalveti: let me try that later today
<kalikiana> wxl: are you joining #ubuntu-uos-appdev-2 for http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22452/html5-application-testing/ ?
<wxl> kalikiana: naw, been idlying. got an lxqt session going on
<equa> Hello
<DonkeyHotei> rsalveti: does that ppa include the hal?
<rsalveti> DonkeyHotei: nops
<rsalveti> just the bluez itself
<rsalveti> works for nexus 4 as it has a hci driver
<DonkeyHotei> so the hal would be a separate source pkg?
<rsalveti> part of the device tarball
<rsalveti> android
<DonkeyHotei> rsalveti: i don't follow
<DJJeff> ping, dobey
<dobey> ?
<DJJeff> you have ubuntu running on the Nexus 5?
<dobey> yes
<DJJeff> how is it
<dobey> it's mostly usable
<DJJeff> ok I am not in a hurry to use ubuntu on my N5 for daily usage
<DJJeff> I may give it a test run but thats about it
<dobey> then use multirom to install and test it, and decide for yourself :)
<DJJeff> would be handy if someone had a spreedsheet of things that work and dont work
<dobey> bt/gps/nfc/local video playback don't work
<DJJeff> thats pretty hardcore list of things not working
<DJJeff> stable is pretty far off by the looks of it
<dobey> *shrug*
<dobey> i've been using it daily as my only phone for a year now
<DJJeff> it really depends on how you use the phone
<dobey> but perhamps i'm a bit more of a masochist than most
<DJJeff> basic usage vs more hardcore things
<dobey> well obviously i can't use bluetooth or gps on it
<dobey> not that i wouldn't if they were working, but i've just lived without them
<DJJeff> makes you harder to track
<dobey> not really
<DJJeff> can always use cell towers to give you location info
<dobey> i guess, if there were code doing that
<DJJeff> lol
<DJJeff> 3 or more towers can triangle your location
<dobey> but a) the gps radio may still be powered on, even though the ubuntu side of things can't use it
<dobey> and b) if the feds want to track me, they can do it without even me having a phone i'm sure
<dobey> well, yes, i know how triangulation works
<dobey> i mean, there is no code on the phone doing triangulation
<dobey> at least on the ubuntu side, afaik
<dobey> the binary stuff in the android bits might do something, but afaik we aren't getting that data in the location service
#ubuntu-touch 2015-05-08
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Grooveshark-to-Be-Removed-from-Ubuntu-Touch-480487.shtml
<morphis> ogra_, rsalveti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11021064/ .. its going to work
<cylonmath2> Guys for some reason, my phone's battery lasts much much longer. I would say she spends the nights with a %5 battery loss, previously it was like %40 loss. Is this only because I turned off 3G?
<ulrichard> Why can't I start the video player from the terminal like so :  mediaplayer-app video:///home/phablet/Videos/2015_SpeedFlyingAndermatt_phone.mp4
<dholbach> good morning
<mardy> what is the component responsible for bringing up the incoming call dialog?
<mardy> (bug 1453004 is currently assigned to ubuntu-ux, but it's actually a bug in some component)
<ubot5> bug 1453004 in Ubuntu UX "BQ E4.5 is ringing but no sliders to pick up the call are presented" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453004
<jgdx> mardy, you could file against canonical-devices-system-image instead of ubuntu-ux.
<mardy> jgdx: thanks, I'll move it there
<SturmFlut> Interesting, the bq E4.5 seems to identify as "device::ro.product.name=occam;ro.product.model=Nexus 4;ro.product.device=mako" via ADB
<ogra_> SturmFlut, yeah, there is a bug open for that ...
<SturmFlut> ogra_: Oh, great
<ogra_> bug 1297927
<ubot5> bug 1297927 in android-tools (Ubuntu) "adbd should not hardcode mako " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297927
<mardy> greyback: hi! I'm watching now the UOS session about unity8 in desktop mode. About your QtCreator demo, does that mean that now it's possible to run QWidget based apps in unity8 without passing via xmir?
<greyback> mardy: it's possible, but there's lots of window-management corner cases we need to fix up. That demo was using not-yet-landed code
<cousteau> a bit of speculative conversation:  would it be possible to develop an Android APK compatibility layer?  I imagine this would be similar to Wine for running Windows programs
<cousteau> (so not everything would just "run natively" but would need some back-ends and compatibility layers)
<ogra_> cousteau, thats surely possible, but you would have to ship the whole layer inside your click package
<cousteau> maybe the word was "feasible", not "possible"
<cousteau> ogra_, do you mean that it should be shipped per app, rather than as a single emulator-ish app?
<ogra_> click apps cant see each other ... (or much of the system) so each apk app would have to ship it
<ogra_> there is a bitcoin app in the store i think ... thats shipping a whole java layer
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy No Socks Day! ð
<cousteau> oh, there's no java package for ubuntu touch just like there is for ubuntu desktop?
<ogra_> there are debs ... you could use the binaries from there inside your click
<ogra_> but no, click packages do not work like debs ...
<cousteau> anyway, I guess the solution could be to have a single "Android app" and have the .apk installed inside that
<ogra_> with the switch to snappy (which is supposed to happen in ~6 months) it will be possible to have a framework package
<cousteau> oh, that sounds better :)
<ogra_> that could then provide a systemwide framework for your app
<ogra_> until then, you will have to fully bundle all deps in your click package
<cousteau> having all apps be self-contained sounds like an elegant and clean solution but may not be very optimal
<cousteau> but still, as I said there could be a single Android app and have the .apk install inside it
<cousteau> although that would probably not be "transparent" enough for the user, since ideally one would want the app switcher to display all instances of running Android apps, not just a single one
<cousteau> and I'm not sure if the app switcher restricts each package to a single "window" or if they can spawn several windows
<cousteau> Touch doesn't have a Back button/gesture like Android, right?
<morphis> cousteau: https://code.google.com/p/gentroid/ might be interesting for you
 * cousteau is thinking that maybe swipe from left/right should be app-specific gestures such as back/menu or back/forward
<morphis> last time I looked at it some of the code was missing so not able to reproduce that from the existing source
<cousteau> ouch
<cousteau> has it been considered to add "swipe from corners" as extra gestures?  Or would that overcomplicate things?
<cylonmath2> do we have chance to use swipe typing?
<cousteau> that way you'd add 4 extra features, and could free "swipe left/right" for application-specific actions.  Swipe left looks like an intuitive gesture for "go back", and swipe right could open a narrow menu on the right
<tsdgeos> oSoMoN: i think the usermetrics stuff may have been fixid in vivid
<tsdgeos> pete-woods: have you had a look at the bug oSoMoN filed today/yesterday?
<oSoMoN> tsdgeos, nope, Iâm seeing that on vivid-proposed
<oSoMoN> wait, actually Iâm seeing it on image #199, Iâll update to the latest now and see if it fixes it
<tsdgeos> oSoMoN: ah, then it may be it's the apps fault, i want to remember usermetrics introduced a way to give the text in english+catalog so the translation would be on run time instead of in insert time
<tsdgeos> but i may be dreaming :D
<tsdgeos> oSoMoN: so i gather the talk went well yesterday? full house?
<pete-woods> tsdgeos: yeah, that feature works, but only for system installed clicks
<pete-woods> I can't find a way of accessing the user's list of packages without actually being that user
<oSoMoN> tsdgeos, it went ok, there were about ~25 attendees (I had the impression there were more after the talk for the free beer and pizzas though)
<tsdgeos> lol
<tsdgeos> that's weird, there were more than 50 people signed up at the meetup page
<tsdgeos> i guess that's bound to happen when signing up is "free"
<oSoMoN> yeah, I know, but the organizers told me itâs not uncommon for about 1/3 of the attendees to not show up
<oSoMoN> but it went well and theyâre all a friendly crowd
<oSoMoN> tsdgeos, nope, updating to the latest image in devel-proposed (#207 on krillin) didnât fix the issue
<tsdgeos> oSoMoN: oh sure, once the db is broken it'll be broken i guess
<tsdgeos> i mean the text is already there in catalan
<tsdgeos> it can't automatically be fixed to french
<tsdgeos> anyway pete-woods is your man fr usermetrics
<oSoMoN> ok, thanks for triaging the bug
<brunch875> GAH! Wake up this morning and do my toilet-newspaper routine on my uphone.
<brunch875> El Pais talks about the convergence project with Microsoft and how others have tried and failed
<brunch875> pointing at ubuntu edge
<brunch875> it made me grind my teeth
<popey> heh
<brunch875> Ironically El Pais should know better since it's the only spanish news scope
<mpt> Where can I report bugs on the NearBy scope? It isnât listed on <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers>, and <https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nearby+scope+site%3Abugs.launchpad.net> doesnât seem to show any Nearby-specific bugs
<davmor2> brunch875: technically Edge did fail but the concepts didn't and live on as this UOS has clearly shown :)
<brunch875> Yeah, what I mean is that article pointed how convergence died with Edge
<davmor2> brunch875: so correct them and point them at the UOS videos so they can get it right :)
<brunch875> Already have! Left a comment there. I would contact the author directly but I don't think it's possible
<popey> mpt: poke cwayne i think
<popey> mpt: when you find out, let me know, i have a couple to file
<brunch875> Cooke's videos are great to see convergence working
<davmor2> mpt: hanloon project I think
<mpt> davmor2, judging by cwayneâs assigned bugs list, that looks right :) Thanks
<mpt> popey, added. <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers?action=diff&rev2=66&rev1=65>
<popey> mpt: thats no good, its private
<popey> avengers should really only link to public bug projects
<mpt> Itâs public on <http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html>, why does it need to be private on Launchpad?
<popey> the code isn't public, that's the problem
<popey> we had this with the today scope
<popey> I'm sure there are others
<popey> mpt: â victorp
<mpt> That doesnât mean the entire project needs to be private â¦ Launchpad itself was for years a public LP project with private code
<popey> I agree with you.
<mpt> Reported bug 1453091 on making the project public (the bug report is private because of the bug itself)
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1453091 could not be found
 * mpt pats ubot5 on the head
<mpt> I wonder what the âNearbyâ scope looks like in the village of SviaÄa, Belarus
<mpt> Maybe I could expense the flights + bus + tractor ride to find out? :-)
<mpt> (Or anywhere that isnât a city covered by Time Out, basically)
<SturmFlut> mpt: I think at least the "NearBy Wikipedia articles" part would show the "Belarus" article
<cwayne> mpt, sturmflut2 it would still probably have stuff from yelp/wiki articles sure
<cwayne> I live in not-a-city so I don't see nearly as much as when im travelling, but tbh it's still been really useful
<pete-woods> pitti: if you could see it in your heart to get my dbusmock MR into the vivid overlay PPA, I would be eternally grateful! it'd be very nice to be able to land my bugfixes to indicator-network with tests enabled :)
<pete-woods> (https://github.com/martinpitt/python-dbusmock/pull/9)
<pitti> pete-woods: heh; sorry; UOS, apport security vuln, stuff just keeps coming :(
<pitti> pete-woods: ah, that's a simple one indeed; the other two are much larger
<pete-woods> pitti: sure, I understand you're busy. obviously I'd prefer to self-serve the release with citrain, but you're my bottleneck here :)
<pitti> pete-woods: btw, why does that block you? packages can always ship their own mocks
<pete-woods> pitti: I know, but I don't want to have to start copying the whole template and maintaining a separate copy
<pitti> (or set/update the status at runtime, like this MP)
<jgdx> ^ this :p
<pitti> ok
<pete-woods> pitti: and seriously, other people's tests need to be fixed if they depend on the broken rsn flags thing that's there at the moment
<jgdx> pitti, did you see that subtle comment
<pitti> jgdx: I did :)
<jgdx> :p
<jgdx> pitti, qa has said they can help out reviewing
<jgdx> just fyi
<pete-woods> is there much that QA can do, besides check a few packages' tests still pass?
<pete-woods> it's not like dbusmock has "user" users
<jgdx> they can look at the code too
<pete-woods> but are QA intimately familiar with network manager / ofono internals?
<pete-woods> I kinda wish I wasn't :p
<jgdx> you and me both
 * pitti looks at the pull requests while some builds/tests are running
<pete-woods> :D
<jgdx> http://i.imgur.com/u02K30c.png
<pete-woods> pitti: I checked that jgdx's branch doesn't break my indicator-network tests, btw
<pete-woods> and they still work afterwards
<jgdx> the bribe helped
<pitti> ah, good; you mean https://github.com/martinpitt/python-dbusmock/pull/6 ?
<pete-woods> pitti: yep, that one
<pete-woods> with any luck there shouldn't be a huge amount left to implement in there
<pete-woods> expect another PR with secret agent support at some point, then I really think we've covered about everything the phone does
<jgdx> then we start on the ofono mock
<pete-woods> yeah, we still need to be able to test sim unlock cancel
<pete-woods> seriously cannot figure out how to get that working
<jgdx> pete-woods, kenvandine expanded our ofono template with some pin locking functionality. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/view/head:/tests/autopilot/ubuntu_system_settings/tests/ofono.py#L120
<SturmFlut> Might be interesting for some: http://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/touch/2015/05/08/hacking-ubuntu-touch-part-4-developer-mode-and-ADB/
<pete-woods> jgdx: hrm, kinda looks like a lot of the high level logic in there should have actually moved into the template
<jgdx> pete-woods, that's the plan.
<pete-woods> oh wait
<pete-woods> that's the template
<pete-woods> but a copy
<jgdx> oui
<pete-woods> right, this is why I want the PRs in core dbusmock, not in each individual's project
<pete-woods> free stuff for me!
<pitti> jgdx: please run the full test suite -- pep8 is barfing like mad
<jgdx> pitti, hm, ok
<pitti> jgdx: (fixing now, but would be easier in the future)
<pete-woods> jgdx: you need to run it once with ./setup test
<pete-woods> jgdx: and again with python setup test
<pete-woods> # tests must succeed for Python 2 and 3
<pete-woods> ./setup.py test
<pete-woods> python setup.py test
<pete-woods> see do-release
<jgdx> pitti, oh my
<mpt> SturmFlut, Wikipediaâs Belarus article doesnât have coordinates (too large, I guess), so probably not
<pitti> jgdx: ok, got it fixed
<jgdx> pitti, thanks. I gotta configure my editor properly. Sorry bout that
<pitti> jgdx: no worries, just for next time
<jgdx> pitti, yup
<SturmFlut> mpt: Oh, interesting. I somehow assumed every country had a set of coordinates.
<mpt> SturmFlut, most countries (or at least, the countries that most people are in at any moment) would be too large for that to be useful
<pitti> jgdx, pete-woods: FYI, https://tracker.debian.org/news/683190; I'll sync it into wily this evening, when it gets imported into LP
<pete-woods> pitti: the vivid overlay PPA would be the most helpful, if that's possible :)
<pete-woods> as it will help me land a fairly good set of bugfixes there
<pitti> pete-woods: we can sync from wily to that PPA, can't we?
<pitti> or do we need magic version numbers there?
<pete-woods> pitti: I have absolutely no idea. I have no package rights, etc
<pitti> pete-woods: what and where is the overlay PPA?
<pete-woods> as long as some version of it ends up in the overlay PPA, via whatever means, that's good for me
<pitti> can/should people just upload there, or does that need to go through the train/spreadsheet?
<pete-woods> pitti: phone images are now produced from vivid + "overlay PPA"
<pete-woods> pitti: I don't know about upload rights. I have no rights anywhere, so citrain is everything for me
<pete-woods> pitti: but you probably have more packge-fu than me, so I don't know if that applies to you or now=t
<pete-woods> not
<ogra_> pitti, nobody is exactly sure what the plan for landing is, development is supposed to all happen in vivid now so that wily is free for snappy work ... perhaps the syncing will only happen in the other direction
<pitti> ogra_: well, I can also upload a ~vivid backport to a PPA, if (1) someone tells me where that is, and (2) that it's okay to upload there
<ogra_> sil2100, ^^^ or do you know more yet ?
<pete-woods> pitti: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/stable-phone-overlay/ubuntu vivid main
<pete-woods> is what's on the phone now
<pete-woods> that's about the limit of my knowledge
 * pitti looks at https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay
<pitti> ok, there are CI train landings, but apparently also direct uploads
<pete-woods> so there are some manual uploads
<pete-woods> must be great to be able to totally skip the QA process :p
<pete-woods> (sarcasm)
<pitti> eek -- there are packages which are newer than in wily
<ogra_> lots :)
<pete-woods> this is where trunk dev for phone-centric stuff is happening, so I guess that makes sense
<pitti> didn't that cause the very mess that we got when updating from rtm to utopic and vivid?
<Tm_T> hi
<Tm_T> I'm currently in Happy Hacking Day event in Helsinki
<ogra_> pitti, well, it will  be synced somehow :)
<pitti> anyway, if it's ok to upload there, I'm happy to; otherwise, as dbusmock isn't set up for auto-landing, what needs to happen?
<ogra_> pitti, the final policy just hasnt been decided yet afaik
<Tm_T> will show up Ubuntu phone to the audience in an hour, also will try put finnish national broadcasting companys news to Ubuntu phone
<Tm_T> I might come and ask things about scopes, just FYI (:
<pitti> ogra_: ok; since I don't seem to be the first one and this is just a QA tool (not on the image) -- stick finger in ear, dput, run away? :-)
<Mister_Q> Tm_T: great :)
<ogra_> pitti, i would say yes, but the final word should be sil2100's
<ogra_> (probably at lunch)
<sil2100> Uploads needed to the overlay?
<sil2100> Let me backlog a bit
<ogra_> sil2100, test fixes only
<sil2100> pitti: the overlay PPA follows the same rules as the archive - we have strict requirements for QA sign-off, but if a package is not directly used in the touch images then it can be published directly by a core-dev as anywhere else :)
<pitti> sil2100: syncing a wily package into the PPA (or uploading a ~vivid backport) for dbusmock
<pitti> sil2100: right, for dbusmock (test dependency only, not on images)
<sil2100> pitti: I would say it's safe to land, if anything goes wrong we'll see by tests failing ;p
<pitti> sil2100: right -- or, in pete-woods's case - succeeding :)
<pitti> pete-woods: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay/+sourcepub/5046790/+listing-archive-extra
 * pitti bbiab
<pete-woods> pitti: woot! thanks!
<cwayne> mardy, pingaling, is there any way to use an account-plugin with 'password' method with libaccounts-glib?
<ulrichard> Why can't I start the video player from the terminal like so :  mediaplayer-app video:///home/phablet/Videos/2015_SpeedFlyingAndermatt_phone.mp4
<dobey> ulrichard: short answer: security. you can't run gui apps directly from the terminal due to the way confinement works.
<ulrichard> dobey, are there any workarounds?
<dobey> i'm not quite sure how to pass a url via cli
<ogra_> you could start a local ssh server and ssh to localhost ... that might work (not sure if graphical output works that way though)
<dobey> it needs to go through url-dispatcher, but i don't know how to do that via cli on the phone
<dobey> ogra_: probably don't want to play video over ssh -X though :)
<ogra_> no, not -X indeed :)
<jgdx> bfiller, kenvandine, mpt, just kicked off a build for the apn editor. Look for 0.3+15.04.20150508-ppa3
<kenvandine> jgdx, thx
<jgdx> bfiller, should fix most of the focus issues.
<kenvandine> jgdx, how about the active/preferred check?
<jgdx> kenvandine, coming as soon as it's done
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> thx!
<dobey> ogra_: well, you can't connect to mir without going through the proper channels, whether you're using Terminal app, adb shell, or ssh.
<ogra_> dobey, you only need socket access though
<dobey> ogra_: yes, which is why you need the tools to launch apps
<Elleo> ulrichard: mediaplayer-app /path/to/your/file.mp4 --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/mediaplayer-app.desktop
<ogra_> well, mediaplayer works from adb
<mpt> jgdx, what was the address of the PPA? I lost it when I closed the hangout
<jgdx> mpt, http://ppa.launchpad.net/phablet-team/ppa/ubuntu
<ulrichard> Elleo: That seems to work, but if I include video:// in the path, it starts the media player, and shows something like an hourglass. Without video:// It says opening the file failed.
<jgdx> mpt, I'm not sure my instructions are good for this ppa
<jgdx> mpt, hm, no they are. But you might have to also install the following packages: libqofono-qt5-0 qtdeclarative5-ofono0.2
<jgdx> kenvandine, ^? Those are in the ppa you said
<brunch875> Hello!
<Elleo> ulrichard: does the video play when launched normally from the gallery/video scope?
<ulrichard> yes
<Elleo> ulrichard: not sure what's up then, pretty sure I've played videos that way when testing in the past
<jgdx> kenvandine, active+preferred thing done
<kenvandine> jgdx, they are in the same ppa
<elopio_> mzanetti: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa/reminders-app/update_token/+merge/258646
<mzanetti> elopio_, \o/
<mzanetti> elopio_, will wait for jenkins to run over it, then approve. thanks so much
<elopio_> mzanetti: I couldn't confirm that all the tests pass, my machines gets crazy. But at least the new token is valid. Ping me if you see something weird.
<mzanetti> ack
<sturmflut2> What are the other advantages of phablet-shell besides using the correct terminal size and optionally copying the .bashrc?
<ogra_> it supports everything ssh supports ... like ctrl chars in nano ;)
<ogra_> (which adb doesnt, it doesnt integrate with termcap at all)
<sturmflut2> Ah, that's a good point
<sturmflut2> ogra_: Hm, the Ctrl chars also work with "adb shell" here.
<ogra_> in nano ?
<sturmflut2> ogra_: Jep
<ogra_> try to edit something and exist
<ogra_> exit
<cwayne> nah, try to exist :P
<sturmflut2> haha
<sturmflut2> ogra_: Okay, this is strange. I start nano, edit the text, press Ctrl+x, tell it to save the modified buffer, and when it comes to the filename, I can't press "Enter" at the end.
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> thats adb :)
<sturmflut2> Geniuses: Only at Google
<sturmflut2> ogra_: Any known problems/disadvantages with phablet-shell?
<kenvandine> jgdx, bfiller, mpt: libqofono is now published for vivid in the overlay, so i deleted it from the phablet-team PPA
<jgdx> kenvandine, awesome
<AZby> Tcastihola buenas
<AZby> pues alguien sabe porque el mÃ³vil se queda buscando wifi y no cambia a 3G... El aquaris ubuntu
<AZby> ?
<AZby> hay algunas cosas que no van del todo bien y me gustarÃ­a saber si a alguien le pasa lo mismo
<AZby> no?
<AZby> nadie?
<AZby> ð
<jgdx> AZby, not everyone in here speak Spanish.
<AZby> sorry
<jgdx> AZby, I see wifi and 3g. Are you describing this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1435328
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1435328 in Canonical System Image "Leaving Wifi does not connect to mobile carrier data (GSM)" [Critical,Fix committed]
<Tm_T> hi, I have issues installing click now
<Tm_T> which blocks whole ubuntu-sdk install http://paste.ubuntu.com/11032622/
<OerHeks> Tm_T, maybe answer #3 is any help ? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2276928
<Tm_T> OerHeks: oo thanks your google-fu was mightier than mine
 * Tm_T is stuck with lynx
<OerHeks> I just found it with the last part, "Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/click_0.4.38.5_amd64.deb"
<OerHeks> maybe worth a bugreport ?
<Tm_T> yeah
<belkinsa> Hello all, the Ubuntu Touch version 15.04 r2 image number 20150413 on Nexus 7 doesn't allow me to download and install updates after a system update.
<mark32> planning to install ubuntu touch on nexus 7 , also have a slimport connector with me, will I get the ubuntu desktop on my external display when I connect the nexus 7 with ubuntu to the display ?
<mark32> nexus 7 2013*
<belkinsa> Oh, mine is  Nexus 7 2013 also
<mark32> belkinsa: any idea if desktop feature available on latest ubuntu touch
<mark32> ?
<belkinsa> I don't know, I'm a new user of Ubuntu Touch too.
#ubuntu-touch 2015-05-09
<jcbjoe> does cellular data work with ubuntu-touch ?
<ogra_> heh, yes, indeed
<jcbjoe> ogra_: for some reason mine isn't working it detects my carrier just can't get on cellular data .. also its enabled
<ogra_> you might need to set the APN data for the connection ... not all providers are in the db yet
<jcbjoe> ok
<ogra_> what device is that ?
<jcbjoe> nexus 4
<ogra_> yeah, that should just work
<jcbjoe> isn't that the only supported device right now ?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<jcbjoe> oh
<jcbjoe> ogra_: do you use ubuntu-touch as a daily driver if so what device do you use ?
<ogra_> the above currently
<jcbjoe> bq ?
<ogra_> yeah
<belkinsa> jcbjoe, you need to use the one for Nexus 4 not BQ.  Use this command ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=devel
<belkinsa> But change the devel to stable
<nicomen> trying to update click build targets yield this error:
<nicomen> E: 10mount: umount: /var/lib/schroot/mount/click-ubuntu-sdk-14.10-armhf-2c41e05d-ed28-414b-8042-4348c3f49f54/home/nicolasm: target is busy E: 10mount: (In some cases useful info about processes that E:
<nicomen> 10mount: use the device is found by lsof(8) or fuser(1).) E: click-ubuntu-sdk-14.10-armhf-2c41e05d-ed28-414b-8042-4348c3f49f54: Chroot setup failed: stage=setup-stop Command returned 1: schroot -u root -c source:click-ubuntu-sdk-14.10-armhf -- apt-get update --yes
<nicomen> ---Click exited with errors, please check the output--
<nicomen> anyone knows what I am doing wrong?
<MickeyVirus> Does ubuntu touch support arm64 arch. Can i directly compile it with arm64 toolchain.
<Tm_T> hola
<Tm_T> E: 10mount: mount: unknown filesystem type 'overlayfs'
<Tm_T> I get this error when I try build my project to mobile instead of desktop
<Tm_T> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11042030/
<nicomen> Cannot create file /home/nicolasm/.config/QtProject/qtcreator/toolchains.xml: No such file or directory ?
<mcphail> There seems to be a difference in the way ringtones function between RTM and vivid. In RTM the tone will repeat. In vivid, the tone only plays once. Is this intentional?
<a556265> Doe's anyone know if there's a natwest app for the ubuntu phone?
<jgdx> Tm_T, I got that too. I disabled overlayfs as I could not find a proper fix.
<jgdx> maybe because I run a mainline kernel, idk
<popey> a556265: nope
<Tm_T> jgdx: ha so do I, that might explain it very well
<Locomia> Hi. Can anyone suggest me a website to learn how tutorials use Ubuntu touch terminal?
<studio_> hi
<Locomia> hi studio
<Locomia> join #nicaragua
<studio_> i am loco? :)
<Locomia> Haha.. I am not sure we can write in this channel. No one anzwer. Lets get private
<piee> maybe use qmake
<studio_> is there a root_fs.tar.gz for the bq e4.5 on the web to download?
<Locomia> Qmake? Is it a website?
<piee> not
<piee> i find too
<studio_> if yes, did someone figured out what key combination to press to boot from the sd-card?
<piee> i want run my code without the  qtcreat
<studio_> "el loco", do you own the bq e4.5?
<Locomia> yes, just because my old phone is broken.
<Locomia> But it is good to start learning about how to use terminals
<studio_> did you tried to boot the bq from the sd-card?
<Locomia> No. I don't even know what is that for
<Locomia> there are some stuff in Ubuntu touch that need to be dsveloped and I hope the cummunity is gonna do it soon
<studio_> if it would working, more space (64gb) for the os and user space
<Locomia> really.. Have you done it??
<studio_> bq made something like that some times before available for a e-book-reader. but power+home is not working i think on the e4.5
<studio_> i need the root_fs.tar.gz to test it. i do not like to reflash my phone all the time from android to ubuntu and back, just for testing ... :(
<Locomia> I don't have any idea but I have been looking for someone to keep in touch to learn more. Can you studio keep in touch with me by email??
<studio_> Locomia, what do you want to learn?
<studio_> Locomia, do you know this: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=460
<Locomia> I use Ubuntu since at least 6 years ago but never use the terminal. I started using it since I got my Ubuntu phone but I'm completly new.
<studio_> the ubuntu phone is not the ubuntu desktop, in the moment the ubuntu phone is a "construction site" ...
<Locomia> Yes, I undrstand and I will leave it for a whilel. But I am not stope using Ubuntu in my computer :)
<Locomia> Hahahah.. I miss whatsoever and skype but I don't have other phone so i keep using it and enjoying it even it is in construction site. But please, I would like to keep in touch with some one knows better than me to improve using terminal in my desk
<studio_> ubuntu on a computer is nice, also the new ubuntu-studio 15.10. but the phone is, with its "want to have convergence", not so nice ...
<ogra_> studio_, coul you stop spreading FUD
<studio_> ogra_, what means FUD?
<ogra_> google it
<Locomia> Mm.. Tank you, sorry studio
<studio_> ok, but i never made FUD!
<mcphail> Does anyone know if the difference in ringtone behaviour between RTM and vivid is intentional? RTM loops the ringtone whereas vivid plays once
<ogra_> studio_, calling the phone a "construction site" surely is ...
<studio_> orga_, the phone is "under constuction" and you know that.
<ogra_> it is a finished product on sale
<mcphail> ogra_: dnftt
<ogra_> and i really dont want to kdismcuss this with you, please stop badmouthing it
<Locomia> we know that.
<ogra_> just beacause you try to do exotic stuff on a device that wasnt designed for this and dont get along with it, it doesnt mean that the procuct does not fulfill its purpose
<Locomia> Anyway, studio, you look like a good guy, please help me to improve my knowledge on ubuntu
<studio_> ogra_, i do not talk bad about the phone and its software, i only tell what other pplz, who also use ubuntu desktop, and compare it to the phone os.
<ogra_> fine, compare it ... but please note it is *not* a construction site, it works perfectly fine in the context it is sold for peoople using it as designed ...
<studio_> ogra_, what do you mean with "perfect"?
<ogra_> what i say
<ogra_> (and i said "perfectly fine" fwiw)
<ogra_> Locomia, if you want to learn about the guts of the ubuntu phone i recommend reading SturrmFlut's recent blog posts about it ... there is also a mailing list and a G+ community where some people regulary post very good howtos and the like ...
<studio_> ogra_, what do you think why i switched back to android on the bq e4.5?
<ogra_> Locomia, https://sturmflut.github.io/ for a start
<ogra_> studio_, i have no idea
<studio_> ogra_, try android on the bq e4.5, then you know, what i understand under "perfectly fine"
<ogra_> studio_, i use it every deay without problems ... since about 6 months ... and many many others out there do too (since a shorter time period though)
<studio_> 6 month ago, so it i just a developer version?
 * ogra_ ksighs and puts studio on ignore ... it gets way to tiring ... troll somewhere else !
<studio_> ogra_, how do you play live tv (iptv) on you phone?
 * mariogrip uses the phone every day without any problems too :)
<ogra_> studio_, dunno, why didnt you develop an app yet instead of annoying everone every second day in here since months about "i cant stream my TV program, so the phone is a broken thing... i cant implement NFS mounting so the phone is broken ... i dont understand how to mount samba shares, must be the fault of the phone then, so the phone is broken"
<ogra_> if you are missing an exotic feature, add it ... it is opensource
<ogra_> just stop raving about it and blame the phone
<studio_> ogra_, "i dont understand how to mount samba shares," as you was not able to explain here in the chat, another guy told me how to use the cifs shares on the phone. but he was also not able to use nfs.
<ogra_> studio_, this isnt #samba ... i never use windows anywhere, why woul i even care how to mount samba shares ... note that you got frequently pointed to the filemanager team working on smaba integration, why you didnt ooffer to help them to simply get that feature in place is beyond me ... but apparently you prefer to complain
<mcphail> Well, I like the phone and I like the direction of travel. It is everything I'd hoped Android was going to be. The ecosystem is still very small, but growing nicely. I don't understand why someone would buy the phone then complai, when it is easy to make things better for everyone.
<mariogrip> ogra_ http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-carry-on-8044.png
<ogra_> mcphail, studio_ wants to use desktop functions and does not understand the concept of a phone, despite many many people taking a lot of time to try to explain it to him...
 * ogra_ hugs mariogrip 
<mariogrip> :)
<ogra_> mariogrip, btw, how is the work on rild going, can you make calls yet ?
<mcphail> ogra_: I remember the old Palm devstudio, which had a great intoduction to what a PDA should and should not do. It should be required reading for people trying to hack on phones
<mariogrip> ogra_ the progress i going slow, i havn't had much free time to work on the project... but i think i know what
<ogra_> mcphail, well, the ubuntu phone can do pretty much everything ... depends on the amount of hacking you invest ;) ... my point is more about constaantly complaining if $exotic_feature isnt there by default on a phone ...
<mariogrip> 's the problem
<studio_> ogra_, did i bought the wrong phone and the "desktop-option" is only in the new phone?
<ogra_> mariogrip, well, last time i checked it looked like this was the last missing piece :)
<ogra_> studio_, there is no desktop option
 * DanChapman finds the ubuntu phone to be a crazy amount of fun to hack on. Even with it's *quirks* 
<ogra_> it has been planned together with the community last week during the ubuntu online summit
<studio_> ogra_, it isn't in the next phone?
<ogra_> no
<studio_> was the propaganda on youtube wrong?
<mariogrip> ogra_ yeah, that, bt and gps :)
<ogra_> ah, gps is a beast
 * mcphail passes round the popcorn
<ogra_> bt will become easier once it switched to bluez5
<ogra_> studio_, experimentally this feature will show up "in a phone" before end of the year ...
<ogra_> it will definitely not show up on the bq
<ogra_> the target for fully featured convergence is the 16.04 release
<studio_> ogra_, i am waiting for a MT6595- or 6795-phone a long time and i know what that soc can handle
<mariogrip> ogra_ my biggest problem now is getting time to debug xP
<ogra_> mariogrip, tried asking the community for help ? seems you have a few people there
<ogra_> at least for commecting info and the like
<ogra_> *collecting
<mariogrip> ogra_ yeah, they are helping me providing debug info and links. i also got alot of help of Chloe
<ogra_> cool
<mariogrip> i also have an app coming up an the store soon :D
<ogra_> oooh !
<ogra_> what will it do ?
<mariogrip> control/monitor for 3D printers (using octoprint)
<ogra_> neat !!
<mariogrip> you have amazing amounts app on the store :D I love the Google+ app!
 * ogra_ is currently trying to get the first "snap click combo" setup to work ... trying to have a snap you can run in the cloud, monitoring an IRC channel and sending notifications to the phone for all pings you get 
<ogra_> well, most of my apps are webapps :)
<ogra_> easily generated by scripts
<ogra_> the G+ one was some work though :) and the lautfm-player app
<mariogrip> :D I use the G+ one every day!
 * ogra_ too :) 
 * popey is making a silly game for Ubuntu :)
<studio_> ogra_, why are direct links (m3u) for exp. http://stream.laut.fm:80/ondalatina are not working on the phone with the music player?
<popey> we don't have playlist support yet, it's coming
<ogra_> right, you could have fund a bug on launchpad for it
<studio_> popey, will m3u or m3u8 also working on the video player for live tv, for exp. mms, rtp, rtps, rtmp and so on?
<mariogrip> popey: we need games! :D
<popey> studio_: no idea.
<studio_> ok
<startrec3> hello
<startrec3> there is something wrong with the fonts (ubuntu next 15.10) http://i.imgur.com/p1oYLqX.jpg
<startrec3> help? i have no idea where to report this bug (mir, unity8,qt)?
<ahayzen> popey, i'm still confused about how we the music-app are going to play remote URLs like m3u's, as we use mediascanner2 to show metadata etc
<ahayzen> popey, we're probably gonna have to change to reading it from media-hub itself or something?
<peat-psuwit> Where should I file a bug about i18n things?
<mariogrip> ogra_ it's detecting modem type ril, (RILDEV detected modem type ril, 1 SIM slot(s)), but it cannot connect (create_ril: can't connect to RILD: Connection refused (111))
<mariogrip> any ideas why?
<startrec3> :(
<mcphail> Is the vivid channel running bluez5?
<artpage> hello is this the user channel or the developer channel?
<Benno-007> test
<jockerfox> Hi. Is there a forum for ubuntu development ?
<jockerfox> *Ubuntu Phone
<reveredge> does anyone know how to install ubuntu in Micromax A110
<reveredge> I have tried a lot but could not unlock bootloader
<popey> ahayzen: well indeed. I don't know that we ever said we would support remote playlists did we?
<ChloeWolfieGirl> any idea of when skipping music via the sound indecator will be released?
<AndyDavis> Hi there I am about to write a Qt Application that is not for the Ubuntu phone but I would still like for it to work on Ubuntu Phone.  What Libs should I stay away from.  and am I going to have to make a custom UI just for Ubuntu Phone ?
<AndyDavis> Example: stay away from QtQuick Windows or stay away from QtMultimedia ect
<taiebot> ouh the sdk is huge!!! 1g After this operation, 1,018 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<taiebot> *** taiebot is going to create is first app..
<dobey> AndyDavis: you can use whatever libs you want. anything not in the SDK will have to be included within the package itself for the package you create for the phone. Using the QML widgeets in the SDK will give you the best experience on the phone though, as they are already designed with the touch interfaces in mind. Using things not in the SDK might result in interesting problems if you use widgets that aren't already built to 
<AndyDavis> dobey,  what about external libs that I write ? How do I add all this to click ?
<AndyDavis> Most of them are debs atm.  Maybe there easy way to convert deb to click ?
<AndyDavis> then I have a bunch of clicks how do the libs read back and forth ?
<artpage> dobey, once ubuntu touch is installed are there regular linux packages on the mirror?
<dobey> AndyDavis: you'll need to pull them into your build. just pulling from debs into the click/snap won't necessarily work, as most things tend to have paths hard coded into them when compiled. so it's best to recompile as part of your app's build as well
<artpage> ie do they render easily within the ubuntu touch user interface?
<dobey> AndyDavis: clicks don't have dependencies. they all need to be in the app's package for the app to use them, if they aren't part of the sdk
<AndyDavis> dobey,  so when writing the app do not break up all the libs
<dobey> artpage: no. apt is not a supported method of installing apps or upgrading the system for the phone images.
<ahayzen> popey, yeah exactly
<AndyDavis> dobey,  so you are saying that any libs that I use or depend on need to also be compiled in my click ! ?
<artpage> dobey, ok thanks, what's the state of video replay on ubtouch, does it run chrome or iplayer?
<ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, we're waiting for media-hub to finish implement some bits, then we'll linkup our end in the music-app, still quite a way to go i'm afraid but it is WIP :)
<dobey> AndyDavis: yes, if they are not included in the ubuntu sdk already
<AndyDavis> How am I to deal with things that use multiple  libs ? example   QsqlDatabasedriver -> [array of packages needed for drivers of databases ] -> my lib -> my app
<dobey> artpage: no. local videos are played through the local mediahub service, which is built on gstreamer. web videos are through the web engine which also uses gstreamer, and is based on blink.
<AndyDavis> so I would have to compile mysql sqlite and all the other databases that are included to make the QSqlDatabaseDriver work with different drivers.
<AndyDavis> No way to pulll  in there dev packages ?
<AndyDavis> pull *
<dobey> AndyDavis: they must be included in the package. i don't know what you want the QSql stuff for exactly, but there is u1db in the sdk already if you just want to store simple documents in a db
<dobey> sqlite is on the image already
<taiebot> How much space takes the SDK ?
<AndyDavis> dobey,  QsqlDatadriver is used to connect to mysql and about 7 other database types.  But it was just a example.
<dobey> AndyDavis: sure, i know what it is for itself. i don't know what you are doing specifically though. :)
<dobey> AndyDavis: but yes, it's just like building an app for any other phone. you either use what is provided in the SDK, or you include everything you need in your own package.
<AndyDavis> wow that is way to much work.  I will just keep for the desktop.  there has to be ways to install debs
<AndyDavis> or make a new lxc ect
<taiebot> I just installed 1g by installing ubuntu-sdk. I am launching it for the first time and i see that is downloading a lots of packages. I am quite low in terms of space on my hard drive it would be nice to know how much it will take before completion
<artpage> does anyone know what firewall is used or even if such things as ufw are needed on a mobile?
<dobey> AndyDavis: you can make a chroot in the home directory of the phone, sure, but that is a totally unreasonable thing to require users of your app to do
<dobey> taiebot: well, to build your app packages for the phone, it needs to create a chroot for cross-compiling, and doing that will basically install all the packages and their -dev variants that are installed on the phone, in that chroot.
<dobey> artpage: well, there isn't really a firewall on the phone image, but there also aren't any services exposed over tcp/udp really either, as it's a phone, not a server
<dobey> there will probably be some more bits added for firewalling in the future though, as cups or simialr get added to enable more features
<dobey> i don't think cups is on the phone right now though
<AndyDavis> dobey,  It is kinda like this.  I have already wrote most the app and it uses many external libs and also builds on some.  That is just way to much work to re-write the application.  We are talking about a lot of code.  But then having to compile and add all the libs that are needed for everything to work.  That is just kinda crazy. We are talking about 20 + packages that are needed in order to even build this thing
<dobey> AndyDavis: well you're talking about running the app on a completely different platform, too
<AndyDavis> Would be cool to have on the phone but it is not a big deal.  But I am not going to maintain 20 + external libs
<dobey> i don't know what "this thing" is, so i can't really offer you any more advice
<AndyDavis> there has to be a way to say deb-> click ion a sbuild or something
<nitro361> hi
<taiebot> dobey: it as completed. Its quite weird that there is no explanation on what is happening as a first time user it would be nice to have a set up journey.
<dobey> well, you can link statically to them maybe. it depends on what the libs are. libs that have plug-in systems though are very difficult to use by linking statically
<AndyDavis> dobey, "this thing" ansible mixed with puppet kinda
<AndyDavis> but with ui
<dobey> there is no way to convert a deb to a click
<artpage> dobey, thanks I'm unaware of these things but thought it was worth an ask if it was somehow related to ubuntu. I've noticed firewalls get multiple ports hit over the internet and wondered if these things happen on mobiles??? :-/
<AndyDavis> dobey, can click be made in chroot ?  maybe I can do come fancy things with sbuild pre and post commands ?
<AndyDavis> like copying libs and what not to click package so that I do not need to maintain ?
<dobey> artpage: well, ports that don't have active services listening on them can't really have open ports. i'm sure phones get hit by botnets looking for things, but unless you have something running, then nothing really happens
<dobey> AndyDavis: the SDK builds the packages in a chroot, yes. but like i said, you can't just convert a deb to a click. they are very different things
<dobey> you can't just put the .so files in a different location and expect they will work correctly. they won't
<artpage> dobey, is that to do with the intermittent nature of mobile connections, some kind of push connection?
<AndyDavis> dobey,  I think that I need to click and how there put together. there has to be a way to do what I am saying.  I can not expect that developers want to maintain othes work.  I could be wrong
<dobey> artpage: no. it's the fact that the phone isn't running apache and such
<dobey> artpage: it's a phone, not a server, after all
<dobey> AndyDavis: well, Steam basically installs a full linux distro in ~/.local/share/steam to be able to work properly.
<AndyDavis> Steam = 1,000 of developers.  me = 1 ;
<dobey> AndyDavis: as i said, it depends on what libraries you are using. some you can just link statically, and some have to be re-built. more complex libraries make things more complex.
<dobey> i'm pretty sure steam does not have 1K developers working on it
<artpage> dobey, right so pcs are still similar to servers even if they don't have static addresses ? I must admit networks baffle me
<dobey> but it's not like Valve maintains Xorg and GTK+ and SDL and all the libs they use either
<AndyDavis> dobey,  so If I am to add all these deps to my app.  How do I do this with click in my pro files ?
<dobey> artpage: well if you want to see what's what, just put your phone on wifi and then scan it with nmap
<artpage> dobey, lol great I'll try that
<AndyDavis> how to make click with qmake or cmake or all that ?  going to google that now.
<dobey> AndyDavis: i don't really know how to deal with qmake and submodules and integrating possibly different build systems into it
<dobey> AndyDavis: just use the sdk
<dobey> add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa && apt-get update && apt-get install ubuntu-sdk
<AndyDavis> that is just some added qt mods and what not.  Great work and real cool.  But does not fit what I am doing .  Again code is already wrote and uses qmake and make.
<dobey> you're asking how to do what the sdk does
<dobey> so yes, it does fit with what you are asking
<AndyDavis> All I see in the sdk are for qml scene things, Many of the libs that are in the app are also for qt and that is why I am so confused
<dobey> do you use qtcreator?
<dobey> the "sdk" is the ide and everything.
<dobey> however, the phone target does not include all of the qt extension libs; but there is a plug-in to qtcreator to all the ubuntu stuff, including the building of click packages
<dobey> and i'm pretty sure it supports qmake as well as cmake, as the build system for a package
<dobey> use it, create a new c++ app using qmake for the ubuntu target, and i'm sure you can probably examine the differences between the qmake template for an ubuntu app in the ide, versus the qmake in your app, to see what you might need to change or add, to enable integration for building a click of your app. then from there you can figure out how to add the other modules you need to build or such.
<taiebot> mm cannot get my webapp to work the url is changed automatically by the device to not what i have told it. Its on my local network. Trying to build a webapp for runeaudio http://www.runeaudio.com/about/
<dobey> taiebot: changed to what?
<taiebot> dobey. the address is http://runeaudio/ on my local network it changes it to https://m.runeaudio.com/ so it opens the wrong website
<AndyDavis> dobey,  so I was just reading that I can take the .so files from my deb build and use in a click package,  In fact It looks like I have to make a deb package so that I can run it through sbuild for cross compile.  Then make the click package after that.  There should be a server that does this for all packages so that one can very easily add to there app .
<AndyDavis> example http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/reminders-app/qmake/view/head:/run_on_ubuntu_touch.sh
<dobey> taiebot: you need to have the url in your webapp be https://m.runeaudio.com/ i guess
<dobey> AndyDavis: no, you can't really. like i said, it depends on what libs you're using. and you don't need sbuild. click build already cross-compiles stuff in a chroot.
<AndyDavis> dobey,  libs that are used.   libbotan1.10-dev libavahi-compat-libdnssd-dev mysql-client-5.5 libmysqlclient-dev << and others like sqlite and odbc ect  libmodbus-dev asciidoc libtool xmlto xsltproc  libcurl4-gnutls-dev all the ssl libs all the dbus all the udev , all the qt libs like serialport and many many others
<AndyDavis> did not want to list all because it would flood
<dobey> only simple libs that do not have complex plug-in dependencies or hard coded paths, can really be copied into a click from the deb package, and expect to work properly
<dobey> anything more complex, and you may (likely will) run into problems
<dobey> anyway, i have to go
<dobey> later :)
<taiebot> well i give up for tonight it looks like i cannot create a webapp which links to my local network it default to the internet. i have those 3 addresses http://runeaudio/ http://runeaudio./ http://runeaudio.local/
#ubuntu-touch 2015-05-10
<AndyDavis> ping popey
<bzoltan> dobey: usually I hand over these blog posts -> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/03/18/everything-you-always-wanted-know-about-kits-were-afraid-ask/  https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/04/13/inner-workings-sdk/ for such questions as AndyDavis was asking.
<mobeous> Is it possible to install ubuntu touch on a laptop?
<zequence> Anyone know how to disable spell check? I have a bq Ubuntu phone.
<zequence> ..or add multiple languages.
<hello_> hello
<nonix4> What kind of differences are there in android-tools-adb between stock trusty 14.04, ubuntu-sdk-team ppa and phablet-team ppa? rtfm changelog or do people who know such things hang around?
<_1_Chris> h
<_1_Chris> hi
<smokmoks> For one week I use a ubuntu phone. It's simply great. I'm missing only one app. Where should I send my request.?
<bzoltan> smokmoks: what app would that be?
<smokmoks> bzoltan: anki
<smokmoks> http://ankisrs.net/
<smokmoks> I can install Anki on Ubuntu but there is no app for Ubuntu Phone.
<vitimiti> You should probably request it to Anki themselves
<taiebot> \o/ first ever app published :-D. Simple webapp
<sydney_untangle> Ok, so is it even possible to get ubuntu touch to run on the 2010 HTC evo 4g? Or does it have some odd drivers, or does no one know?
<sydney_untangle> Its got 512mb ram and 1gb ROM.
<sydney_untangle> Im just frustrated that there is nothing newer than gingerbread that i can find.
<jcbjoe> question the BQ Aquaris E4.5 version has nearby today scope and what not .. i installed ubuntu-touch on a nexus 4 and i don't have those scopes any idea why ?
<NIN101> jcbjoe: afaik, they are developed by BQ
<NIN101> and not part of ubuntu touch
<cylonmath2> is there a way to disable 1 sim without taking simcard out?
<mariogrip> mzanetti: do you need some help with the openstore?
<mzanetti> mariogrip, hey, what are you thinking of?
<mzanetti> mariogrip, like, would you like to contribute applications, infrastructure, code to the store app itself, the website?
<mariogrip> mzanetti: just where you need me most
<mariogrip> mzanett: like, i'm best at infrastructure, but i can always do some website if you need that
<mzanetti> mariogrip, I could use a command line tool that generates the repolist.json from a set of packages
<mzanetti> mariogrip, something like: uploadpackage packagename.click
<mzanetti> mariogrip, that would then upload it to the server and update the server's repolist.json accordingly
<mzanetti> don't have a clear idea yet, but it should allow some management of the packages in the repo and eventually be usable as the backend for a website that does the uploading
<mzanetti> does that sound like something you want to do?
<mariogrip> mzanetti: yeah
<mariogrip> python?
<mzanetti> wfm
<mzanetti> not sure if that's easiest to call from a website on the server, but I guess should be doable
<mariogrip> i can always do php also
<mzanetti> I guess we should ask Brian
<mzanetti> mariogrip, can you send me your mail address somehow?
<nightwolf85> hiya
<trickvi_> Elleo: I'm adding src content to a keyboard predictor like in this MR https://code.launchpad.net/~simosx/ubuntu-keyboard/add-greek-layout/+merge/254248 -- should I include the src files as well (greek MR doesn't) and are there any restrictions/guidelines on the src material provided (license, type etc.)?
<trickvi_> by src files I mean src.pro and other files to build the ngram database
<trickvi_> and by material I mean the actual source for the ngram (in greek's case an ebook)
<Elleo> trickvi_: heya, yeah the original text needs to be included (so we can regenerate the database if necessary), and it should be CC-0/public domain/CC-BY or similar licensed (most of the ones we use are from gutenberg.org)
<Elleo> trickvi_: I'm almost done with the current batch of new layouts (just need to chase people up about CLA signing), so if your layout's almost done let me know as soon as possible and I'll try and get it included in this batch
<trickvi_> Elleo: I have CC-BY material so it's done :)
#ubuntu-touch 2016-05-09
<faenil> pete-woods: ping
<pete-woods> faenil: hi
<pete-woods> faenil: sorry, will have to get back to you later
<pete-woods> my wife has a flat tyre I need to go and sort out
<faenil> pete-woods: np
<pstolowski> popey, hey, are you still experiencing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-click/+bug/1578283 with current image?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1578283 in Canonical System Image "App scope is blank" [Critical,Confirmed]
<popey> pstolowski: lemme test
<pstolowski> popey, tough nut that one..
<popey> pstolowski: yes
<popey> pstolowski: still blank
<teve> for some reason my phone does not notice vegetahd rc-proposed updates anymore, I'm stuck with r318 and latest one should be r320?
<pstolowski> popey, hmm, ok. btw have you seen the question from marcustomlinson in this bug report?
<popey> pstolowski: took 3 refreshes
 * popey looks
<popey> left comment
<marcustomlinson> popey: could you pastebin your latest ~/.cache/upstart/scope-registry.log
<marcustomlinson> popey: oops, forgot the "please" ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> marcustomlinson: http://termbin.com/fkr6
<popey> I only have one scope favourited, the app scope
<marcustomlinson> popey: thanks
<popey> np
<pstolowski> also trying to repro with only Apps scope favourited, no luck so far
<pstolowski> popey, may i ask you for one more thing?
<pstolowski> popey, could you please run clickscope manually with debug enabled? i.e.
<pstolowski> popey, make sure it's not running (ps aux|grep clickscope)
<pstolowski> popey, and then as phablet user:
<pstolowski> popey, U1_DEBUG=1 /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/unity-scopes/scoperunner "" /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/unity-scopes/clickapps/clickscope.ini  > output.log 2>&1
<pstolowski> popey, then reproduce it and attach output.log if it shows anything we haven't seen before
<popey> ok
<pete-woods> faenil: okay, back again
<popey> pstolowski: marcustomlinson annoyingly can't reproduce it after the first time, or with your debug option open!
<faenil> pete-woods: wb :) network-indicator showed "H" this morning, but internet wasn't working. Wifi was ON but no APs shown (which is the bug I reported a cuople of days ago). Then I disabled WiFi, and turned into no-wifi icon
<pete-woods> faenil: hmm, we really need to have a good look at this
<pete-woods> faenil
<faenil> pete-woods: do you want me to file a new bug for this?
<pete-woods> faenil: I'm not convinced this is wholly caused by indicator-network
<pete-woods> faenil: I'd just append to your existing one
<faenil> pete-woods: you think it's the same one?
<pete-woods> at the moment, I think it's just worth having all the debugging on one place
<pete-woods> faenil: not really sure. I haven't investigated at all yet
<pete-woods> faenil: there could be multiple underlying causes
<faenil> mmm ok...you know better :) it looks different to me, but I'll just append ;)
<pete-woods> faenil: tbh, I would see there being great value in getting me and Tony stuck in the London office for a week looking at these issues
<pete-woods> as it's next to impossible to debug this sort of thing at home
<pstolowski> popey, uh.. might be worth setting U1_DEBUG=1 permanently in the env (so it survives reboots), not sure what was the magic stanza to do that with upstart
<faenil> pete-woods: this happened while I was at home.
<pete-woods> faenil: then maybe even a day or two of walking in and out of wifi range..
<pete-woods> as that seems to be the trigger
<faenil> pete-woods: but yes, I definitely agree you guys you should come here for however long is needed and address all those issues :)
<pete-woods> for all the crazy
<faenil> I volunteered to grab whatever log is needed, but didn't hear back anymore after a while
<pete-woods> faenil: the logs aren't really enough
<pete-woods> and that's not your fault
<pete-woods> I need to be able to attach a debugger to the indicator
<pete-woods> and see exactly what's going on
<faenil> ok
<pete-woods> faenil: although there would also be great value in adding a ton more "verbose mode" logging to the indicator
<faenil> yep
<pete-woods> the truth is, I don't have enough time to do a great job with these things
<popey> pstolowski: ok
<pete-woods> I'm allocated to too many projects to focus in on these issues
<faenil> pete-woods: I can imagine :/
<pstolowski> popey, one way of doing this is to add "env U1_DEBUG=1" below "author" line in /usr/share/upstart/sessions/scope-registry.conf (perhaps there is a better way..)
<popey> pstolowski: I was shelling into the phone and running the command before unlocking it
<pstolowski> popey, that shouldn't for this problem
<gaurav_> i am stuck at a point where the qtcreator needs a kit and i don't know what to do
<popey> gaurav_: what is the ultimate goal?
<Mirv> Kaleo: could you take a look at camera issues (in general) on Qt 5.6, bug #1572576 ? using the vivid silo (with the wiki instructions) is possible so it's rather easy to switch. it's the one of the two unfixed main regressions I know of (unity8 people looking at scopes problem, but you can start camera from launcher)
<ubot5> bug 1572576 in qtubuntu-camera (Ubuntu) "Taking a photo not working with Qt 5.6" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572576
<brunch875> I think I now know why I use scopes so little. What the main design issue it has.
<brunch875> Swiping fully from the left will always reset you to the leftmost scope, instead of the scope you were in previously.
<brunch875> I say it would be much better if this only happened when tapping the ubuntu logo on the launcher
<Kaleo> Mirv, I'll slot it in
<Mirv> thank you
<Acou_Bass> brunch875: i use my scopes a fair bit... i only use the default onesthough, i dont use many additional ones
<brunch875> Acou_Bass: Which scopes do you commonly use? Out of sheer curiosity
<Acou_Bass> mostly the today scope, but i also use the photo scope too rather than the gallery app :P
<Acou_Bass> i like the today scope because it aggregates lots of other scopes into it
<Acou_Bass> eg. the tasks/calendar, calls/messaging
<Acou_Bass> the news scope would be much beter if more of the newsy scopes aggregated into it... not sure if its the news scope itself's fault or the other ones that dont correctly stick into it
<founderio> Currently trying to flash ubuntu onto a MEIZU Pro 5. unlocking fastboot does not seem to work -> sudo fastboot oem unlock -> command output looks fine, but even after reboot the phone still shows "locked".. I've read some "fishy" tutorials that I need a beta firmware from shoewhere? Anyone fot experience there?
<colomar> Hi everyone!
<colomar> Some of you might have seen me in our UoS session about Kirigami last week ( http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22658/convergent-qtquick-applications-with-kirigami/ )
<colomar> I'm responsible for interaction design for Kirigami
<colomar> After Mark asked me on Google+ whether Kirigami applications would run on Ubuntu Phones, we discussed a bit how we could further our collaboration
<colomar> In that regard, I would like to invite anybody who is interested in cooperating on mobile/convergent Qt applications to come to QtCon ( http://qtcon.org/ ), which is a joint conference between the Qt community, FSFE, KDAB (a Qt consulting company), VLC and KDE
<colomar> I think this would be the idal platform to talk about how we can ensure that Qt-based mobile and convergent apps run well on all Qt-based mobile platforms, so it would be great if some of you could be there
<pmcgowan> colomar, we usually send a bunch of folks there, would be happy to join
<mhall119> pmcgowan: do you know who'sgoing this year?
<pmcgowan> mhall119, not discussed yet afaik
<pmcgowan> let me look
<pmcgowan> mhall119, on the plan but no names yet
<colomar> pmcgowan: That sounds great!
<colomar> It would be good if you could tell us when you know who will be going there so we can try to organize meetings
<colomar> Of course what would also be great is if there could be a talk from you guys about how you develop applications for Ubuntu Touch
<colomar> Proposals are welcome until May 15th here https://qtcon.org/cfp
<pmcgowan> oh thats soonish
<colomar> Yes. Sorry that I didn't come here sooner.
<colomar> All that's needed for the submission is a short description, though, and then there's plenty of time to prepare the actual talk ;)
<mhall119> faenil's presentation he have at UOS would be great for that
<pmcgowan> mhall119, got a link?
<mhall119> pmcgowan: https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/developer/959711/
<pmcgowan> mhall119, ?
<mhall119> pmcgowan: that's faenil's presentation at UOS
<mhall119> oh, no, wrong link, sorry
<pmcgowan> heh
<mhall119> oSoMoN: the browser is being weird lately, ctrl+l ctrl+c doesn't copy the URL
<mhall119> pmcgowan: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1605/meeting/22651/convergent-ubuntu-apps/
<mhall119> oSoMoN: I have to de-highlight the URL, then ctrl+a ctrl+c before it ocpies
<oSoMoN> mhall119, thatâs on the latest rc-proposed image, right?
<mhall119> oSoMoN: however, it's rarely crashing now, which I do appreciate :)
<mhall119> oSoMoN: on my laptop, so xenial + overlay + your PPA
<mhall119> 0.23+16.04.20160506.1-0ubuntu1
<mhall119> oh, also + silo 53, which seems to have this version
<oSoMoN> mhall119, the symptoms you describe sound to me like it could very well be a consequence of bug #1545802
<ubot5> bug 1545802 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu) "activeFocus not being forwarded to TextInput inside TextField" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1545802
<oSoMoN> mhall119, so you have the UITK from the overlay PPA ?
<mhall119> oSoMoN: looks like it, yeah
<oSoMoN> mhall119, thereâs a fix ready for that bug that should land for OTA-11 (i.e. very soon)
<mhall119> ok, I'll keep up to date
<colomar> mhall119 pmcgowan Indeed, that sounds like a fitting topic. A talk like that plus Marco's and my talk about Kirigami (we have submitted a very similar talk to our UOS talk at QtCon as well) together could set the stage for discussing how our convergent strategies could converge (wow, what a pun!)
<pmcgowan> converge squared
<mhall119> oSoMoN: not sure if it's related, but F5 doesn't trigger a refresh when I'm running the browser in a Unity8 session
<mhall119> other shortcuts, like ctrl+t and ctrl+tab work fine
<mhall119> just not F5
<mhall119> but that works okay under Unity 7
<oSoMoN> mhall119, mmm, thatâs weird indeed, IÂ wonder whether it could be a unity8 bug wrt Fn keys?
<oSoMoN> mhall119, as a temporary work-around, Ctrl+R does the same as F5
<mhall119> oh, nice ,thanks
<arioBarzan> is it possible for developers to build an application for ubuntu touch and run it on their own device without first submitting it to Ubuntu Software Center for review?
<arioBarzan> let's say running arbitrary apps on a bq aquaris m10 of their own.
<arioBarzan> what about the root partition being write-protected. Does it hinder programmers to install (not clicked packaged) apps on their own ubuntu-touch device?
<mhall119> oSoMoN: hmm, everything is giving me mobile-versions today, like G+ and Facebook, was there a UA string change?
<oSoMoN> mhall119, no
<mhall119> hmm, weird
<mhall119> oh well, I can force them to go back to desktop version
<ogra_> Bah, the camera really doesn't get along with shell rotation on the mx4
 * mhall119 just realized that the browser started up with the same tabs I had open when I logged out of Unity 7
<ogra_> only works properly with rotation lock
<mhall119> that shouldn't surprise me, but it did :)
<mhall119> ogra_: likely the camera's own rotation logic is conflicting with the shell's, it should probably request to have it's own orientation locked to something
<ogra_> or just follow the shell
<ogra_> ither woulld be fine
<ogra_> *either
<mhall119> since it goes fullscreen it really doesn't matter, it would be a one-line thing to lock the app in portrait
<mhall119> oSoMoN: loving the link-mouseover displaying the target URL at the bottom, that was something I missed from FF/Chromium
<ogra_> in the desktop file you mean ? yeah, that could work
<mhall119> ogra_: yeah, I bet that's all it needs
<faenil> arioBarzan: of course you're encouraged to test the apps on your own devices before sending them to the Store for review :)
<faenil> arioBarzan: and about RO filesystem, yes you cannot install packages using the "classic" apt-get, if you keep it RO
<mterry> Elleo, hello!  You work on ubuntu-keyboard, yeah?  I'm curious about the feasibility of bug 1578693.  Specifically, how easy is it for the OSK to know maxHeight ahead of time?  And how big would maxHeight realistically be?  In some extreme input method cases, how tall does the OSK get?
<ogra_> testing before uploading ? crazy talk
<ubot5> bug 1578693 in ubuntu-keyboard (Ubuntu) "Would be useful to expose maximum OSK height" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1578693
<faenil> ogra_: right? :D
<ogra_> :)
<oSoMoN> mhall119, thanks, not an ota11 target, but Iâll try to land it early in the ota12 cycle
<mhall119> oSoMoN: so, ctrl+r doesn't work in Unity 8 session either, so maybe it's not the shortcut itself but the logic it triggers that's the problem
<arioBarzan> faenil: I need to do "phablet-config writable-image" my device for making it rw, in order to test my app ?
<faenil> arioBarzan: testing your app does not require making the device RW
<faenil> arioBarzan: the easiest way to test your app is to use Ubuntu SDK
<faenil> that will build, deploy, and run the app on your device
<mhall119> oSoMoN: nothing shows up in the app logs though
<ogra_> and note that the phaablet-config way is permanent
<oSoMoN> mhall119, interestingâ¦ mind reporting a bug?
<arioBarzan> faenil: on my device, not on an emulator, right?
<faenil> arioBarzan: correct, you use QtCreator's "Kits" to specify if you want the build/run configuration you want
<ogra_> if you ever need to make it writable, sudo mount -o remount,rw / ... and sudo remount,ro / is the better way
<faenil> arioBarzan: so you'll have one Kit to test it on emulator, one kit to test it on desktop, one kit to test it on device...as many as you want :)
<arioBarzan> faenil: thanks
<faenil> np
<faenil> let me know if you need help with it!
<Elleo> mterry: heya, as things stand we do currently always know the max height, so this could be reported without too much difficulty
<Elleo> mterry: currently we enforce the same height across all layouts, that might change in the future though
<mterry> Elleo, oh that's easy then  :)
<Elleo> mterry: but even then we should be able to report it
<mhall119> oSoMoN:  ~/.cache/upstart/application-legacy-webbrowser-app-.log
<arioBarzan> faenil: how about developing on the device itself. I guess that would be far in the future that we have qt-creator or something alike running on device itself.
<mhall119> bah, ctrl+l ctrl+c bug strikes again
<Elleo> mterry: I'll add that bug to our back log, how urgent is it?
<mhall119> oSoMoN: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+bug/1579775
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1579775 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu) "Refresh keyboard shortcuts not working in Unity 8" [Undecided,New]
<mterry> Elleo, I can put together a branch, if you can point me at where that height is known?  Everything I see in ubuntu-keyboard is dynamic
<mterry> Elleo, not super urgent, now
<mterry> *no
<faenil> arioBarzan: there is an experimental .click package that allows to install QtCreator on your device, I am aware of how many of the base usecases works though. I don't think it's ready to develop on device
<mterry> Elleo, we could even fake it in u8 in short term (especially if layouts are all same height now)
<faenil> arioBarzan: but as long as you're doing pure qml apps, you should be able to just use qmake, make, "click build" on device
<Elleo> mterry: all layouts are the same height, but it's still somewhat dynamic in that it's calculated as a percentage of the screen height, and that percentage differs between portrait and landscape and phone/tablet
<faenil> even if it's a c++ app, it shouldn't be a problem
<Elleo> mterry: the percentages are defined in qml/keys/key_constants.js
<Elleo> mterry: phoneKeyboardHeightPortrait, phoneKeyboardHeightLandscapen, tabletKeyboardHeightPortrait, tabletKeyboardHeightLandscape
<Elleo> mterry: actually, the full height is potentially that + the corresponding word ribbon height
<mterry> Elleo, ok thanks.  Why don't you put it on your TODO list in a non-urgent section, and I'll see if I either do that work for you or just hack it in u8 in meantime
<Elleo> mterry: okay, sure thing
<mterry> Elleo, thanks!
<founderio> ogra_: Had luck flashing ubuntu onto a Pro 5? Or are you still waiting for yours?
<ogra_> i'm in canada this week ... so even if it arrived in germany now i wouldnt have access :(
<founderio> Currently trying to do that -> I got as far as unlocking fastboot but ubuntu-device-flash shows "Can't boot recovery image"
<ogra_> (read: no, i didnt even get a delivery notification yet)
<ogra_> but i wouldnt flash it anyway
<founderio> I got mine a few hours ago
<ogra_> an ubuntu one ?
<founderio> nope
<ogra_> ah
<founderio> first shock: fastboot wouldn't unlock, but I got that done using a (leaked?) beta firmware
<ogra_> well, then your chanches are low i guess
<founderio> meh
<ogra_> meizu usually has two versions ... one of them is completely locked ....
<founderio> ew...
<ogra_> then the ubuntu partitioning diferse from androids ...
<ogra_> whichh means you need a factory flash tool to flash and have it do the repartitioning
<founderio> currently looking into this here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/767323/firmware-mx-pro-5
<founderio> it describes what the ubuntu-flash-tool does internally
<ogra_> and since ubuntu doesnt touch actual factory partitions with binary blobs you might end up witout IMEI and such
<founderio> hmmm
<ogra_> i know what ubuntu-deviice-fllash does ... :)
 * ogra_ wrote parts of it
<founderio> yes, YOU know it ;)
<ogra_> you willl need somee meizu factory flash tool to get tthe partitioning ... ubuntu-device-flash wont do that bit
<founderio> huh..
<founderio> any tools known?
<ogra_> dunno, i never worked with the new phones
<ogra_> for bq and the MX4 the MTK flash tool worked ...
<founderio> Just some wuick info: I tried re-doing some parts manually and it fails on fastboot format cache -> (Formatting is not supported for filesystem with type ''.) and on "fastboot boot recovery-turbo.img" -> booting... FAILED (remote failure)
<ogra_> but the 5 doesnt use an MTK chip and likely uses some completely different tool
<founderio> I'll see if I can find anything
<ogra_> i wouldnt put my hopes to high
<andygraybeal> are there any ubuntu retail phones available in the united states?
<andygraybeal> or is it just a euro thing for now?
<ogra_> bq delivers worldwide ...
<andygraybeal> cool
<ogra_> (but the bands will limit you... to 2G i think)
<andygraybeal> okay
<andygraybeal> as long as wifi works and voice it'll be oay
<andygraybeal> okay
<ogra_> so fine if you want to test apps you developed on a real device ....
<andygraybeal> thank you ogra!
<ogra_> ... to actually use the phone you are probably better of buying a used N4
<andygraybeal> n4.. okay
<ogra_> *off
<mcphail> Is there anyone from bq support around just now?
<founderio1> darnit... 50% of the time when that phone reboots connected to my computer, ubuntu freezes to the point of even another tty not working O_o
<ogra_> mcphail: try the mailing list
<mcphail> ogra_: it's just a hardware problem. Was wondering about price for USB socket fix. Is mailing list OK for that kind of thing?
<ogra_> mcphail: not sure, but you wont know if you dont try ;)
<mcphail> ogra_: indeed!
 * mcphail hates microusb sockets
<brunch875> mcphail: I learned the hard way that some usb cables have poor quality and break any socket
<mcphail> brunch875: I have a habit of pushing them in the wrong way, which doesn't help
<mardy> dobey: hi! Did you see this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/+bug/1573536/comments/3
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1573536 in Ubuntu UX "Content of the re-authentication dialog window" [Undecided,New]
<mardy> dobey: if we want to implement it, then we really required the click scope to register itself as an OA client
<mardy> s/required/require/
<marcustomlinson> popey: ping
<popey> marcustomlinson: on a hangout, but fire away
<marcustomlinson> popey: dobey left a comment for you on the empty apps scope bug. When you have time. thanks!
<popey> kk
<popey> marcustomlinson: done
<hello_there> Hey! I'm new to porting and I'm wondering whether someone can help me. I am trying to port a Moto e surnia but I get the error:
<hello_there> make: *** No rule to make target '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/STATIC_LIBRARIES/libmake_f2fs_intermediates/export_includes', needed by '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/EXECUTABLES/recovery_intermediates/import_includes'. Stop.
<hello_there> Can someone help?
<hello_there> I have tried downloading the F2FS external repository and placing it in external and adding it in build/core/main.mk
<hello_there>   Hey! I'm new to porting and I'm wondering whether someone can help me. I am trying to port a Moto e surnia but I get the error:
<hello_there> make: *** No rule to make target '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/STATIC_LIBRARIES/libmake_f2fs_intermediates/export_includes', needed by '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/EXECUTABLES/recovery_intermediates/import_includes'. Stop.
<hello_there> Hey! I'm new to porting and I'm wondering whether someone can help me. I am trying to port a Moto e surnia but I get the error:
<hello_there> make: *** No rule to make target '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/STATIC_LIBRARIES/libmake_f2fs_intermediates/export_includes', needed by '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/EXECUTABLES/recovery_intermediates/import_includes'. Stop.
<hello_there> Can someone help?
<lotuspsychje> hello_there: best to idle here some longer time, due to timezones
<lotuspsychje> hello_there: while you patient, try the XDA forums also
<hello_there> Ok lotuspsychje, I've tried Ask ubuntu but I haven't got anywhere... http://askubuntu.com/questions/769440/ubuntu-touch-port-make-no-rule-to-make-target-out-target-product-surnia-obj
<hello_there> I'll try XDA forums...
<lotuspsychje> hello_there: best to re-ask once in a while here also at wich point your stuck
<hello_there>   Hey! I'm new to porting and I'm wondering whether someone can help me. I am trying to port a Moto e surnia but I get the error:
<hello_there> make: *** No rule to make target '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/STATIC_LIBRARIES/libmake_f2fs_intermediates/export_includes', needed by '/home/peter/phablet2/out/target/product/surnia/obj/EXECUTABLES/recovery_intermediates/import_includes'. Stop.
<hello_there> Can someone help?
<mhall119> oSoMoN: this one bit me earlier today https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+bug/1579817
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1579817 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu) "Hangouts tab is killed to free memory" [Undecided,New]
<plavcik> hi, how is possible to install man pages on ubuntu touch , please?
<peat-psuwit> I've sent a merge proposal for lp:camera-app/staging, but jenkins bot doesn't come up. Do I need to do anything else for merging into that branch?
<plavcik> can I get mailx or other minimalistic mail client on ubuntu touch?
<founderio> ogra_: I think I have it working
<founderio> language selection displays :D
<founderio> this post here is worth gold: http://askubuntu.com/questions/767323/firmware-mx-pro-5
<founderio> Okay, verified working -> Ubuntu phone on a Flyme-OS Version Meizu PRO 5. Wifi works, phone calls work, system looks nifty!
<altker128> Hey guys.  Is there an answer to this question?  I'm very curious about this too:
<altker128> <swalladge> so if i turn on read/write system to use apt-get i have two questions: 1. can i temporarily disable it to get system/ota updates (or force the updates)? 2. if i break the entire system, is there an official image i can flash back on for factory default?
<ogra_> dont use rw ...
<ogra_> thats the simple answer ...
<ogra_> if you do, be prepared to re-flash
<altker128> With all due respect, not being able to use apt and all that kind of neuters a huge benefit of a real Linux based device (unlike Android with it's Bionic)
<altker128> From what I can tell, Ubuntu Touch keeps the Android bits and pieces in a Linux LXC (container), and the core Ubuntu software runs on the "host" side.
<ogra_> sure
<altker128> So, I'm wondering why enabling r/w and using apt to install packages would break Ubuntu
<altker128> err, Ubuntu Touch
<ogra_> but the OS aas a whole is built around the image based update model
<altker128> Couldn't apt be setup to install stuff in like /usr/local or something?
<pmcgowan> altker128, there are techniques to create containers for apt-get playgrounds
<ogra_> which simply conflicts with deb based systems ...
<altker128> pmcgowan: You're basically saying create another LXC container?
<pmcgowan> yeah I dont do it maybe ogra_ has a link
<altker128> OK.  What about keeping a list of of installed packages and the respective config files, so if there's an image based update, then a script runs to re-install user's packages and copies the config files?
<ogra_> i know dobey has an askubuntu link ;)
<altker128> I mean, don't you guys ever need to install stuff beyond what the Touch image ships with?  That part has me confused.
<ogra_> as soon as tehh phone moves to snappy thi discussion is luckily over ... the snap based OS wont allow to make it writable
<pmcgowan> altker128, http://askubuntu.com/questions/620740/recommended-way-to-install-regularcli-deb-packages-on-ubuntu-phone
<pmcgowan> uses chroot
<ahoneybun> mhall119 Hangout works in rc-proposed on my Nexus 7 but the video is not working right on that device.
<ogra_> (because it is aa squashfs file)
<ogra_> if you want to use graphical apps from an apt package, use llibertine, if you want to use cli stuff, use a chroot
<ogra_> *libertine
<ahoneybun> libertine is not really usable on the rc-proposed for me
<ogra_> works fine here ... i have inkscape, scribus and a lot of other apps working fine on my tablet
<ahoneybun> you need arm versions right?
<altker128> So, does that mean one could even install Firefox using libertine?
<ogra_> whats the bit that makes it unusable for you ?
<ahoneybun> I can;t remove containers for oen
<ogra_> oh ?
<pmcgowan> altker128, yes thats one of the apps included by default in the puritine click
<ahoneybun> yea the remove button does nothing]
<ogra_> button ?
<altker128> ahoneybun: Like the goggles? :)
<ahoneybun> I don't see libertine-scope also
 * ogra_ only usess it from terminal ... using llibertine-container-manager
<bregma> ahoneybun, the libertine-scope is a deb in the archives but it only just landed today
<ahoneybun> oh
<altker128> pmcgowan: Wow.  So, Firefox is available for all Ubuntu Touch devices, even phones?
<bregma> altker128, yes, but usefulness is questionable on some of the lesser-powered devices
<ahoneybun> ogra_ sometimes the UI becomes unresponive
<ogra_> well, in an unaccelerated X setup ...
<ahoneybun> like I see the click but it does nothing
<mhall119> ahoneybun: what do you mean by "not working right"?
<altker128> bregma: 10-4 .  I assume a phone with an eight-core processor should handle it !
<ahoneybun> mhall119 I see a green screen thing
<ogra_> (i.e dont expect fiefox under libertine to actually do webgl or stutter free video playback)
<mhall119> hmm, oSoMoN jhodapp ^^ not sure what part of the stack might cause a green screen instead of video in hangouts
<bregma> altker128, I assume, but you'll probably want a bigger screen or else learn to squint a lot
<altker128> Another question on Ubuntu Touch Apps and firewalls ; in Android AFWall/AFWall+ can selectively enable network connectivity on a per-app basis because each Andorid app gets it's own UID.  Can something similar be done for Ubuntu Touch?
<ahoneybun> mm I don't have a screenshot
<altker128> bregma: Well, honestly, I'd want it for plug-ins, specifically NoScript .  I don't watch a lot of mobile video or care too much about WebGL.
<ahoneybun> mhall119 this might be the main issue: https://www.flickr.com/photos/44748317@N08/26232653643/in/album-72157667368951370/
<jhodapp> mhall119, no idea, hangouts doesn't use the media stack related to media-hub...it uses an internal Oxide stack that I'm completely unfamiliar with
<bregma> ogra_, the webgl works great on a desktop, but I suspect it's using software rendering on some of the ARM devices
<oSoMoN> mhall119, Iâve seen that before, but I have no idea what it could be. usually reloading the hangout fixes the issue
<ogra_> bregma: thus my question at UOS about "will we ever see hybris integration in libertine" ;)
<ogra_> we should really do that ... lonng term
<ogra_> same for video codecs
<ogra_> (i have vlc and smplayer installed on my tablet here ... but there is no way to get more than a slideshow out of them)
<mcphail> ogra_: +1
<ahoneybun> mhall119 I can video call you can show you
<ahoneybun> oh GPS works on the Nexus 7
<altker128> Is the Nokia HERE for Ubuntu Touch a real application, or a webapp / link to here.com ?
<ahoneybun> why not use uNav?
<ogra_> both :)
<ogra_> it is a real QML app but uses a webview for the map part
<mhall119> ahoneybun: sorry, I have to run and take my son to class
<ahoneybun> np I just wanted to know if it would help at al
<altker128> ogra_: unav or here?
<ahoneybun> *all
<altker128> ahoneybun: unav looks cool, I assume one can use it completely offline?
<ogra_> and yeah better use unav ... definitely the more advanced app
<ahoneybun> altker128 that is coming out soon
<altker128> ahoneybun: Awesome.
<altker128> Apologies for the repeat.  Is there a working ufw / gufw for Touch?
<popey> altker128: not seen anyone working on that
<popey> ufw itself is on the phone
<popey> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ ufw version
<popey> ufw 0.34~rc-0ubuntu5
<ogra_> the bits and piesces are also enabled in the kernel
<popey> no gui for it though. would be neat to have one
<altker128> Could Touch apps / scopes be filtered the way apps in Android can?
<ogra_> i think it isnt configured in any way though, but all bits are in place
<altker128> Well, in Android, each app is installed with it's own UID so one can use a uid/gid iptables rule and filter that way.  Is Touch do anything similar for scopes or apps?
<ogra_> not yet but it should be technically possible ....
 * mcphail wonders how 99$ of the store apps would get on without network connections :/
<ogra_> (and on aa sidenote, snappy will fix that)
<altker128> mcphail: Do you mean Ubuntu Store apps, or?
<popey> mcphail: yours works, so does that make you the 1%?
<mcphail> altker128: many of the apps on Ubuntu are webapps at present. Blocking network connections is going to be messy
<popey> I think some of those apps will magically disappear soon
<mcphail> popey: My mother always said I was special in my own way
<popey> because they were made ages ago, and use the 13.10 framework
<popey> and I doubt they will be updated
<altker128> Yeah.  The sad truth is often times when traveling, data is turned off.   Or if you want to look something up, you ONLY want the webbrowser to work
<altker128> Hence the importance of a 100% offline GPS routing app
<popey> ogra_: surely with each app in its own cgroup, you could filter / block traffic there?
<popey> or am I weong?
<altker128> Given the fact Ubuntu Touch keeps Android in an LXC container, wouldn't it then be possible to run Android apps alongside Ubuntu apps?
<ogra_> nope, you are right
<mcphail> It would be nice if permy would allow you to stop netwrok permissions
<ahoneybun> altker128 there is not much in that Android Layer
<ahoneybun> mostly drivers
<ahoneybun> no Java for that
<altker128> If Touch is running on a device that already has an Android port, I wonder if/how that could be made to work.  Not that I really want Android, but there are some apps for which an Ubuntu port may never come.
<mcphail> altker128: afaik, ubuntu _only_ runs on devices which have an android port
<altker128> Yeah, libhybris and all
<mcphail> altker128: I'd iamgine you'd need to break confinement, have a surfaceflinger -> Mir shim etc for it to work. I can't see it on the horizon soon
<mcphail> altker128: best to bring the apps directly to Ubuntu ;)
<altker128> So, it seems like Qt on Android is becoming more of a reality.  Maybe app developers can use that to simultaneously target multiple platforms
<altker128> mcphail: Right now on Android, Nokia HERE maps and HP48 emulator are the only things I'd personally want to carry over, everything else it seems like Ubuntu Touch is quite capable.  There's even openvpn support now for Touch which is great.
<ahoneybun> can anyone recommanded a bluetooth mouse that works?
<ahoneybun> also a good slimport adapter
<ahoneybun> as BLE does not work
<mcphail> Remind me, it is "pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted package.click", isn't it?
<bregma> ahoneybun, I have a FOSMON slimport adapter, comes with a custom-matched HDMI cable so it eliminates most of the failures I've had due to the flakiness of the slimport<->HDMI combination
<bregma> and it's reasonably inexpensive but not cheap like some
<ahoneybun> I have one that is a bit flicky with display
<ahoneybun> might be as I'm using a HDMI=DVI cable for my monitor
<bregma> I went through a few slimports, and several cables: they stopped working after a while, or didn't work with certain displays ever, or only in certain combos
<bregma> the FOSMON has pleased me so far
<bregma> also I use a Logitech M557 mouse and the ever-present Logitech K480 keyboard
<bregma> never had a problem with the keyboard, but I've found the mouse finicky about pairing sometime
<ahoneybun> BLE means the device does not see it at all
<ahoneybun> bregma only with bluetoothctl can you see it but it does not pair right
<ahoneybun> thanks for the mouse bregma
<ahoneybun> bluetooth needs some work on the nexus 7
<PaulFraOSAA> Mirv: I have just seen in the QtTesting wiki that you say it is possible to run KDE Plasma Desktop, Is there any place I can find out more about this?
#ubuntu-touch 2016-05-10
<ahoneybun> well that did not go well
<ahoneybun> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/ubuntu-16-04-unity-8-desktop-progress-video
<ahoneybun> following that gave me a black screen
<bregma> ahoneybun, I would not recommend adding the stable phone overlay PPA to any kind of desktop; it isn't supported and hasn't been tested
<ahoneybun> bregma it was a fresh install on a testing system so no worries
<ahoneybun> I'll just format it
<bregma> is your black screen after logging in to Unity 8 or before?
<ahoneybun> before I never got lightdm
<bregma> that would have nothing do do with Unity 8 or the stable phone overlay, then
<ahoneybun> startx would bring a wallpaper with a X curser
<ahoneybun> it was find before
<ahoneybun> *fine
<ahoneybun> mm maybe should have upgraded, rebooted then added the ppa
<ahoneybun> oh wall
<ahoneybun> *well
<bregma> just don't add the PPA, it may contain an incompatible version of the X server or lightdm perhaps
<ahoneybun> yea I could fix it by removing it
<bregma> the way Unity 8 works on the desktop is LightDM comes up on X exactly the same way it does for Unity 7 (or any other variant), but if you choose Unity 8 as your session, it will stop X and start Mir
<ahoneybun> yea I thought so
<bregma> so there should be nothing special and no difference until you select Unity 8 at the LightDM prompy and then log in
<bregma> *prompt
<Ahmad> Im new here
<Ahmad> anyone here using A7000+ ?
<arioBarzan> nexus 4 is the only phone fully supporting convergence, because neither BQ nor Meizu support HDMI-out on their phones, right? (set aside Aquaris M10 by BQ which is not a tablet)
<arioBarzan> *I meant M10 tablet which is not a phone
<saavento> hi
<arioBarzan> Is it possible to install qemu on my ubuntu-touch phone/tablet?
<popey> arioBarzan: if you make the device rw, sure.
<popey> wonder how badly qemu running x86 code would run on an armhf device :)
<arioBarzan> I'm not sure if qemu requires X server? In that case I was thinking one way perhaps would be to install libertine and xmir, in order to get qemu running
<arioBarzan> anybody knows whether qemu runs on mir itself, or I should use xmir instead?
<popey> qemu has a headless mode
<popey> what is the goal? what do you want to run in qemu?
<popey> (It will run badly)
<arioBarzan> debian-xfce4
<popey> more efficient to run in a chroot IMO
<arioBarzan> Does ssh X forwarding works on ubuntu-touch?
<arioBarzan> to be more specific, could a client on ubuntu-touch do ssh -X to a server like a headless-qemu?
<popey> we don't have x so that wont work arioBarzan
<arioBarzan> popey: even within a libertine-container ?
<lotuspsychje> arioBarzan: whats your endgoal with all this exactly?
<popey> arioBarzan: no, i mean on the phone default image (ouside any containers)
<arioBarzan> lotuspsychje: I needed to know if one could run qt-creator on ubuntu-touch device itself.
<arioBarzan> lotuspsychje: I thought since ut is currently restricts users to click packages (which are mir-compatible), one solution would be to run another instance of ubuntu in a headless-qemu on the touch device.
<ahoneybun> yay camera rotation is fixed
<arioBarzan> it would have been nice though, if one could run ubuntu SDK on ubuntu-touch.
<popey> pretty sure the sdk guys have demo'ed running the sdk on the tablet
<popey> zbenjamin: ^ ?
<ahoneybun> I saw a picture of that somewhere podbay
<ahoneybun> popey
<lotuspsychje> arioBarzan: perhaps unity8 on a windows based tablet can get you more solutions
<zbenjamin> popey: yes, bzoltan had some version running on it
<mterry> tedg, I'm testing your polkit fix to see if it makes that bug in the wizard go away
<mterry> thanks for the quick fix!
<pmcgowan> mterry, tedg we are discussing reverting the addition of that package since it doesn't seem it was intended for the phone images ?
<pmcgowan> and there are other issues
<pmcgowan> alecu, ^
<mterry> pmcgowan, if there wasn't an urgent reason to add it in the first place, holding it off until we fix regressions makes sense
<pmcgowan> mterry, no one is quite sure why it landed
<tedg> mterry: Thanks!
<tedg> pmcgowan: The reason was because we figured it was going to be needed for multi-user eventually and it was kinda a no-op. But it's turning into something other than a no-op.
<pmcgowan> tedg, fair enough, so lets defer it so we can shake it out
<tedg> pmcgowan: +1
<pmcgowan> tedg, can you make a silo to revert it?
<tedg> Probably too late for this OTA, but we should land something that produces a recoverable error on PK request. It's really weird that we have some many.
<tedg> so many
<tedg> pmcgowan: Actually, I can't, sil2100 controls the seeds.
<sil2100> What's up?
<tedg> sil2100: We'd like to unseed policykit-unity8
<tedg> sil2100: It's causing a bunch of unexpected issues and isn't needed for this OTA
<sil2100> hm, ok, for this OTA still?
<sil2100> Ouch
<sil2100> On it then
<tedg> sil2100: Thank you!
<tedg> Saviq: Can you translate the prompt text in those screenshots?
<mterry> tedg, hrm the fix didn't fix the wizard issue
<tedg> mterry: Bummer, so perhaps fallback doesn't work as expected.
<tedg> mterry: Is there an error in the USS log?
<mterry> tedg, yeah maybe it's not so dynamic as we hoped
<mterry> tedg, no just the same error in unity8.log during the wizard bit
<tedg> Oh, wait, they're from mzanetti. Sorry Saviq
<tedg> mzanetti: Can you translate the text in the screenshots on bug 1580086 please?
<ubot5> bug 1580086 in Canonical System Image "Random password prompt popping up" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580086
<tedg> mterry: That's not helpful :-/
<mterry> tedg, yeah just needs more investigation
<mterry> tedg, but probs not worth it right this second if we are dropping the package for now
<tedg> mterry: Now that we're not targetting this OTA, do you want to go the seeding the PW route?
<mterry> tedg, sorry what?
<tedg> mterry: Where USS would send it to the agent.
<mterry> tedg, oh via an api to the agent?
<mterry> tedg, right that would let us drop the custom agent so I'm on board
<Saviq> mzanetti, they're asking about "changing your private data"
<Saviq> tedg, rather â
<mterry> tedg, so I guess the idea is that there's some API that we can say to the agent "if this provided password is correct, cache admin auth for this user for the usual timeout" -- right?  Is there a good way to pass password info over dbus or do we need another transport?
<Saviq> tedg, bug #1512002
<ubot5> bug 1512002 in accountsservice "Annoying dialog "Authentication is required to change your own user data"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512002
<tedg> Saviq: Ah, that doesnt' tell us much about who's doing it.
<seb128> usually indicator-messages
<seb128> but on touch could be more things syncing things to a-s
<seb128> mterry added a bunch of those
<seb128> like ringtones, maybe sound settings
<Saviq> tedg, in any case, do we need policykit-unity8 on the phone today?
<mterry> Saviq, no the short term plan is dropping it
<tedg> I bet it was listening to music, and the current track. That's explain the "every 5 minutes"
<Saviq> mterry, ack
<tedg> seb128: So can we put that in vivid?
<seb128> tedg, you do whatever you want with vivid
<tedg> Guessing the phone hacked login isn't setting it as the active session for some reason.
<seb128> from my perspective that's an unsupported non existant serie :p
<tedg> seb128: ;-)
<tedg> seb128: If you believed that vivid still exists, would you think it was wise to put it in vivid? ;-)
<seb128> tedg, yes, we landed those changes in xenial
<seb128> what is good enough for a LTS should be fine for weirdos as well ;-)
<tedg> mterry: Thinking about this, we're just talking about password mode, right? That's just the UI being shown. Not sure we need to make that a PK verification.
<tedg> mterry: Especially if we're allowing changing the other AS data.
<mterry> tedg, well it's covered under the rubric of the "change own user data" pk auth
<mterry> tedg, I think it's reasonable to require pk auth, but I could be convinced it's overblown
<tedg> mterry: So with bug 1512002 it changes that for change own user data.
<ubot5> bug 1512002 in accountsservice "Annoying dialog "Authentication is required to change your own user data"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512002
<tedg> It's seeming like if we landed that patch we'd fix all the issues :-)
<mterry> tedg, I'm a little confused by that bug -- did they just change all perms for change-own-user-data to "yes"?
<tedg> mterry: As long as you're authenticated as that user, yes.
<tedg> mterry: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/257080357/accountsservice_0.6.40-2ubuntu10_0.6.40-2ubuntu11.diff.gz
<mterry> tedg, interesting yup...  yeah that might fix it.  Let me test that patch
<seb128> mterry, yes, we did
<mterry> seb128, yeah figured it out eventually.  :)  just the two patches in the bug confused me
<seb128> mterry, I discussed that with robert_ancell in Prague and that seemed to make sense, no reason to require an active session, that acl doesn't control sensitive datas
<seb128> mterry, right, I did a first upload that allowed unactive sessions and then we went to allow non registered sessions as well (e.g vnc, ssh, etc)
<mterry> tedg, seb128: confirmed that backporting the AS allow_any patch fixes the issue with wizard and polkit-u8.  And presumably means we can drop the custom agent in USS completely
<tedg> mterry: \o/
<seb128> mterry, tedg, what is the agent for in uss?
<seb128> mterry, tedg, the change-own-data doesn't cover passwords
<tedg> seb128: Handling specifically that issue :-)
<seb128> just user icon, etc
<tedg> In this case it was password display as keypad or keyboard
<mterry> seb128, yeah.  The custom agent specifically was for changing user password mode (not password itself) before we had an agent
<seb128> that's the hint?
<mterry> seb128, yeah.  display hint
<seb128> hint is under the same permission indeed
<seb128> great
<tedg> seb128: Could you copy accounts service into silo 57 then please?
<tedg> seb128: Link: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-057
<seb128> tedg, copy being a dput? sorry I didn't use silos for a while...
<tedg> seb128: I don't know, I just asked kenvandine to do it, I don't know what he did :-)
<seb128> good, if kenvandine does it that's even better!
<kenvandine> seb128, i used copy-package
<kenvandine> from the xenial archive to the ppa
<seb128> vivid has 0.6.37-1ubuntu10
<seb128> which ppa?
<kenvandine> landing-057
<seb128> xenial has 0.6.40
<kenvandine> we deleted it
<seb128> you guys want the full version upgrade?
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> talking about somethign else
<kenvandine> i copied whoopsie for tedg
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, I'm unsure we want to "copy" accountsservice
<seb128> they are not the same versions
<seb128> you guys probably want to backport the patch for that specific issue
<kenvandine> updating that would require lots of testing
<tedg> Ah, okay. How do we do a patch? dput?
<seb128> I guess
<faenil> do you guys have any info about coloured emojis?
<faenil> like, what are we missing, what are we waiting for, etc?
<JanC> what type(s) of coloured emoji will UT support?
<sil2100> pitti: hello!
<sil2100> Ah, forgot, pitti is away today
<sil2100> seb128: hey! You seem to have more experience with LP translations :) I'm wondering, recently pay-ui/pay-service got enabled for translations but I don't see it in the 15.04 translations
<sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/pay-service/use-langpacks/+merge/291422 <- this was the merge
<sil2100> And, for instance, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+lang/es shows no pay-service or pay-ui
<sil2100> (exports don't have those as well)
<sil2100> seb128: do you know if there was some step missing?
<seb128> sil2100, on first upload the template needs to be approved, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+source/pay-service/+imports?field.filter_status=all&field.filter_extension=pot
<seb128> I just did that
<sil2100> Oh my
<seb128> it should get imported in a bit
<sil2100> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> yw
<sil2100> rvr: ^
<rvr> \o/
<seb128> done
<seb128> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+source/pay-service
<seb128> enjoy the translating
<rvr> Hmm
<rvr> Let's hope that fixes the problem
<seb128> somebody should probably email the translators list telling them about the new domain
<rvr> pay-service != pay-ui
<seb128> rvr, well, look if the strings you see untranslated are listed there?
<rvr> seb128: Yes
<rvr> seb128: "Add credit/debit card" is in pay-service
<sil2100> rvr: are those translated on LP at least?
<sil2100> Or do we need emergency translator help?
<rvr> Nope
<rvr> The project has translations
<rvr> https://translations.launchpad.net/pay-service/15.10/+pots/pay-service/es/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=add+credit
<rvr> There are a couple of new strings missing though
<seb128> right, seems those strings are mostly know/had translations
<rvr> Buy now and Allow requesting in-app purchases?
<seb128> right, those aren't translated in french either
<rvr> Do you know how projects are listed in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+ ?
<rvr> Are they manually picked?
<sil2100> rvr: anyway, are we good enough with the pay-service translations right now? Are those good on your language? Asking since I could then request an export for a translation re-spin
<seb128> rvr, I don't know but dpm probably does
<rvr> sil2100: I translated to Spanish
<rvr> sil2100: the two missing strings
<rvr> sil2100: Those two will be missing for other languages
<rvr> But haven't heard of in app purchases yet, so the impact may be small
<rvr> What I'm worried about is the domain, as pay-service is not pay-ui
<dpm> rvr, seb128, they are put there if their package generates a .pot template, IIRC it's the same as for the main distro
<rvr> Hope the developers got it right
<seb128> k
<seb128> dpm, thanks
<seb128> tedg, Saviq, it was mentioned on the bug that part of the polkit prompt issue is that unity8/touch doesn't have a proper logind session, if that's true do we have a bug about that? and if not can we get one? ;-)
 * Saviq not sure why we wouldn't have a "proper logind session", mterry do you?
<sil2100> rvr: I'll request an export so we can check everything
<arioBarzan> of the images listed in following link, which one I should download for testing ubuntu-touch? preinstalled-system(112MB) or preinstalled-touch(494MB)?
<arioBarzan> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/
<popey> i wouldn't test any of those
<arioBarzan> I guess you think I should "apt-get ubuntu-emulator" , right? or perhaps the sdk has emulator kit?
<arioBarzan> what's the deal with "yakkety-preinstalled-touch-i386.custom.tar.gz"(27MB)? what "custom" stands for?
<dobey> rvr: pay-ui is part of pay-service now
<arioBarzan> popey: why not any of those?
<popey> arioBarzan: because that's yakkety, the phone is currently vivid based, and will (I think) move to xenial soon.
<arioBarzan> so this would be better?
<arioBarzan> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/vivid/daily-preinstalled/current/
<arioBarzan> then which one of them I should use? "vivid-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz" for running on a arhmf virtual machine?
<popey> I don't know about those images.
<arioBarzan> do you use any other solution like the official ubuntu-emulator ?
<popey> personally, no
<popey> the emulator is too slow to be usable on armhf
<mterry> Saviq, seb128: sorry was out for lunch.  We *should* have a proper logind session.  Last time I looked at it, we did.  What we don't have is a cached user authentication, since lightdm autologs the user in.  Which might be part of the polkit problem.  Or maybe we lost the status of "proper logind session" along the way and we didn't notice.  But I think other things would be broken if that were true
<seb128> mterry, Saviq, k, maybe that statement was wrong and the issue is just when the phone is locked and the session inactive
<rvr> dobey: Ack
<mariogrip> why cannot i install framework-15.04.5 in the sdk?? the dropdown has only 15.04 (and down from that)
<jgdx> awe_, hey, you know if nm1.2 changes anything for hotspot on mako? Or does the problem lie elsewhere?
<awe_> nope; I guess we need to add that to our asana backlog; hasn't really been on anyone's radar
<tedg> Saviq: The UAL change makes U8 not crash, but the media player says it can't connect to its backend. Is that normal?
<tedg> Saviq: I think the bug is fixed... but want to make sure.
<Saviq> tedg, "to its backend"? - lemme test the silo
<tedg> Saviq: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1401
<tedg> It definitely doesn't crash U8 anymore. :-)
<Saviq> tedg, yeah all works fine here
<tedg> Saviq: Cool, wonder what's up with my N4 :-/
<RippyD1ppy> hey guys, how is ubuntu with the surface pro 3
<RippyD1ppy> obviously not that great
#ubuntu-touch 2016-05-11
<LjL> r?
<grasstype> woo! got chroot up and running! learning is awesome
<jabawok> E5HD owners, i just designed this:
<jabawok> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1554849
<mbuf> Is there an option in Ubuntu phones to turn of GSM?
<mbuf> and what would be the latest phone model running Ubuntu that is recommended?
<Smurphy> mbuf: yes. You can turn it off.
<mbuf> Smurphy, Cool. Is there an alternative to "Google Authenticator" in the Ubuntu repository that I can use on the Ubuntu phone?
<popey> mbuf: yes
<popey> https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.mzanetti.ubuntu-authenticator
<mbuf> popey, nice, thanks!
<zzarr> hello!
<zzarr> will I be able to use miracast or any other Wi-Fi display technology on my MX4?
<popey> not yet i don't think
<mbuf> for the second question on the choice of Ubuntu phone device?
<zzarr> ohh... I meant when OTA 11 is released
<popey> I just ordered a Meizu pro 5, looking forward to getting that
<popey> OTA11 froze this week, so within a few weeks
<mbuf> is it actually possible to completely re-build the Ubuntu image from sources? or are there any binary firmware?
<popey> once testing is done
<popey> there's blobs
<mbuf> popey, I see
<popey> but that's all android driver stuff
<popey> not our bits
<mbuf> popey, okay
<zzarr> is OTA 11 based on 16.04?
<popey> no, OTA-11 is still 15.04 + Overlay PPA
<popey> Testing still ongoing for 16.04
<zzarr> okey
<zzarr> will I be able to run X11 apps?
<mbuf> popey, is there a lower-priced model compared to the Meizu pro 5?
<andoru> hi, I want to try finding out why I get no sound output over HDMI from Nexus 7
<popey> mbuf: the bq e4.5 / e5 are lower spec
<popey> but they're quite a bit lower spec ã
<zzarr> mbuf, I think the Meizu Pro 5 is the lower-priced highend phone
<mbuf> popey, zzarr okay
<popey> it's a very nice phone
<popey> I had a play with one recently for the first time
<popey> really feels high end in the hand
<mbuf> popey, okay
<mcphail> Don't dismiss the capabilities of the bq phones. When a few of the wrinkles in the OS are ironed out, they will run nicely. They do feel cheap, though
<zzarr> popey, does it have USB C/USB 3.1?
<popey> zzarr: it may have some of the USB C spec, but not all
<popey> I don't have one yet
<zzarr> popey, okey, what parts is it missing?
<popey> dunno, i don't have one
<zzarr> popey, I guess that it don't have the DP part
<daniman> ubot5: dev
<ubot5> Interested in becoming an Ubuntu Developer? Get started here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<brunch875> Â¡Good morning, ubunters!
<lotuspsychje> !releasenotes
<ubot5> Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial Xerus) release notes can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes
<daniman> Is there any hope that i can run Viber on my ubuntu phone???
<lotuspsychje> daniman: ive seen viber released for linux for sure, but not yet on ubuntu-touch yet i think
<lotuspsychje> daniman: use telegram for now as alternative
<daniman> lotuspsychje: telegram will be an option but how about an andriod emulator, i am sure ubuntu-touch has imported some andriod features
<brunch875> I wonder if there's a way to make the music app delete tracks from the queue as they're played
<brunch875> kind of how rythmbox behaves
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: add a new bug for your idea
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: check the existing bug list in our topic first also
<lotuspsychje> daniman: you cant run android apps on ubuntu-touch
<lotuspsychje> daniman: but its possible to create a touch app yourself
<lotuspsychje> daniman: or request one to the viber maintainer
<lotuspsychje> the more people ask, the more change something gets ported
<daniman> hmm
<brunch875> lotuspsychje: Is there a place to discuss this before filing a bug? Maybe people prefer having the queue as it is right now... :s
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: a bug for a new idea is the proper way mate
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: discussing it here is bit hard due to timezones
<brunch875> Ah, I see :). So if I oppose to a suggestion I should make a comment in the filed bug, then?
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: just use the main bug window for your idea
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu-bug yourpackage
<lotuspsychje> then, musicplayer cant do this...because of....
<lotuspsychje> brunch875: you can change the bug itself to a real bug or idea
<brunch875> That's pretty handy! Thanks for the information.
<mhinnes> hi
<mhinnes> Will be possible to use chromecast with OTA11?
<john-mcaleely> seems unlikely
<mhinnes> john-mcaleely: Think I read somewhere OTA11 will enable miracast or something like that
<john-mcaleely> yes. I think it will be for one device only to start with
<john-mcaleely> I don't believe chromecast == the same as miracast
<mhinnes> yes miracast is intel i think
<john-mcaleely> miracast is a standard implemented by a number of dongles and tvs
<john-mcaleely> chromecast, is, well, chrome
<mhinnes> yes
<mhinnes> so until chrome is not supported chromecast won't be?
<colomar> pmcgowan, mhall119: It looks like the deadline for the call for papers for QtCon will be extended by one week, just fyi
<pmcgowan> colomar, thanks
<mhall119> thanks colomar
<jonathan_ubuntu> Hello, is there a new bq phone planned with ubuntu ?
<jonathan_ubuntu> y a des gens ici ?
<seb128> jonathan_ubuntu, oui
<seb128> but it's an english speaking channel
<jonathan_ubuntu> my previous message was in english.
<seb128> right, need to show patience on IRC
<seb128> everybody is not spending their days staring to their IRC client waiting for questions to come
<seb128> :-)
<jonathan_ubuntu> a bad english perhaps ;)
<seb128> no, just nobody around to reply
<seb128> also it's probably not the channel to get press announces about new devices
<seb128> so it's likely that nobody has an answer to your question here
<jonathan_ubuntu> they should disconnect if so
<seb128> that's not how IRC works
<seb128> usually people get busy, head down in code or going for lunch, they eventually read the backlog/reply later on
<seb128> but it might also be that your question doesn't have a known answer
<jonathan_ubuntu> i try to collect info about ubuntu on phone but there s not a lot
<jonathan_ubuntu> merci d'avoir rÃ©pondu ;)
<seb128> jonathan_ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/devices
<seb128> jonathan_ubuntu, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/ is also active/having useful content
<seb128> jonathan_ubuntu, de rien!
<seb128> pmcgowan, http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/devices ...the e4.5 links to a 404 page is that known?
<seb128> that might be locale dependent
<seb128> it sends me to https://store.bq.com/gl/smartphones/ubuntu-edition-e-4-5-fr/
<pmcgowan> seb128, let me look
<pmcgowan> seb128, ah they no longer sell it, we should update the page
<seb128> right
<pmcgowan> I can remove the link
<pmcgowan> oh not there
<seb128> or change the button like for the mx4
<seb128> which has "sold out"
<seb128> not clickable
<wpgriggs> hey guys, I just installed ubuntu onto a surface pro 3, the touch cover trackpad is working but the keyboard isnt
<wpgriggs> any ideas?
<troyready> wpgriggs: weird; I'd expect the opposite problem
<troyready> I haven't used Ubuntu Desktop on my SP3 since 15.04 but I seem to recall the keyboard working ootb. I'd think that'd be better now with 16.04
<wpgriggs> troyready: Im using 14.04LTS, should I upgrade>
<troyready> Ah. yeah. It's one of those things where you're going to be chasing the latest kernel for some time to come. I'm pretty sure there are still kernel patches that you'd want that aren't merged into mainline yet
<troyready> Best place to research and ask questions is probably https://www.reddit.com/r/surfacelinux
#ubuntu-touch 2016-05-12
<mithun> hi. i got an aquaris e5 ubuntu touch. its my daily driver. how can i help the community make this thing suck less?
<mcphail> mithun: file bug reports, create patches, make apps and scopes, write documentation
<mithun> thanks mcphail. is there a list somewhere with things other people are thinking?
<mcphail> mithun: theres a mailing list, and there was talk last week of producing a list of small bugs which could be easily tackled by the community
<mithun> ah. found it now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Contribute
<mcphail> Lurking on here can be useful as well
<daniman> Can i externally download a package and install it to my phone, or download from my computer then install it?
<daniman> is there any mirror?
<daniman> !mirror
<ubot5> Ubuntu installation CDs can be downloaded from http://releases.ubuntu.com - Mirrors can be found at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors - PLEASE use the !torrents to download !Xenial, and help keeping the servers' load low!
<popey> daniman: yes, you can
<daniman> popey: how? is there any doc, sorry i am new for the phone version
<popey> adb push foo.click /tmp
<popey> adb shell
<popey> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted /tmp/foo.click
<popey> Done.
<daniman> popey: how?
<popey> how what?
<popey> oh, you timed out, I typed it above
<daniman> yeah i was out, light went out lol
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16373517/
<daniman> popey: i don't think there is adb
<daniman> there is adbd
<popey> you run adb on your pc, not the phone
<popey> to transfer the click to the phone
<popey> or you could just wget the file directly on the phone and just use pkcon to install it
<daniman> yeah i got it, but is there adb for the phone
<daniman> The last time i checked it was adbd
 * daniman <-- new for the phone
<daniman> ok where can i download the packages?
<daniman> !pkg mirror
<daniman> !mirror
<ubot5> Ubuntu installation CDs can be downloaded from http://releases.ubuntu.com - Mirrors can be found at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors - PLEASE use the !torrents to download !Xenial, and help keeping the servers' load low!
<brunch875> Telegram now takes some time to open up a chat when tapping on a contact (as if it needed internet to do it). Am I the only experiencing this?
<popey> brunch875: I don't think so.
<jaywink> yeah noticed as well it drops to the chat list when clicking a notification and takes 2-3 secs to open the chat
<brunch875> I'll test it a bit and then file a bug then
<brunch875> I think this new behavior is so that it doesn't open an unrefreshed chat
<brunch875> It must be a bit of a headache since the notifications aren't entirely synched up with the client
<brunch875> Little question: I am on rc-proposed. Am I using a newer version than on stable? Or is the same telegram version rolled on all channels?
<popey> same version
<popey> it's a store-shipped click
<brunch875> That's good to know!
<brunch875> is there a simple way / srcipt to setup public key for phone ssh using adb?
<brunch875> something like adb setup-ssh
<davmor2> brunch875: phablet-shell
<davmor2> brunch875: connect it to a pc enable developer mode and run phablet-shell
<brunch875> is it like adb shell?
<davmor2> brunch875: it will setup keys and copy them to your phone and pc so you can connect to it from ssh
<brunch875> I can't use adb shell because I'm talking here with rndis :Ã
<brunch875> Thanks, davmor2
<brunch875> I'll do that at home so that I don't burn 50MB downloading phablet-tools
<popey> My M10 arrived. It's got a european charger :(
<davmor2> popey: :( that sucks
<davmor2> popey: nice box though right?
<seb128> those thing didn't happen while you were in the E.U
<seb128> oh, wait
<seb128> :-)
<Smurphy> popey: it's Ok. I am in Europe :)
<davmor2> popey: quick send Smurphy the plug it sounds like he needs it desperately :D
<brunch875> popey: How unfortunate. Send it to me, I use european outlets :Ã
<popey>  /join #brexit
<davmor2> popey: see loads of people seem desperate for the plug you'll have no issues getting rid of it
<popey> i notice it ships with OTA 9.5, not 10 or 10.1
<popey> Also, can't sign in to U1 - "network error - please retry"
<popey> nothing wrong with the network
<davmor2> popey: bug is fixed it is because you need to add your one time only password
<popey> wat
<popey> how?
<davmor2> scroll down the page
<popey> there is no scroll down
<davmor2> popey: should be
<popey> nope
<davmor2> have you slid the keyboard down?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> hmm pass then
<davmor2> popey: for canonical people the network error was because it tried to connect and failed due to redirect to otp this is fixed in 11 whenever it is released
<popey> no good for a customer OOBE on 9.5
<davmor2> popey: we don't release it bq do and the factory ran with ota9.5 as that was what was available and new oobe didn't land till 10 hands are tied on that one
<popey> davmor2: that issue can't be 2fa btw, I initially tried with a non-canonical account
<popey> and it also failed
<davmor2> popey: oh weird blame JamesTait bound to be his fault
<aquiles> Hii
<aquiles> Hello
<davmor2> aquiles: hello
<daniman> Where can i get the click pkgs?
<pmcgowan> daniman, the app store ?
<daniman> pmcgowan: yeah, i wanted to download from my pc the pkgs and install
<mhall119> daniman: are you running Unity 8?
<daniman> mhall119: in the touch?
<mhall119> yes, touch runs Unity 8
<mhall119> but Unity 8 also runs on  non-touch devices, with some work
<mhall119> if that's what you've got running, the store scope is the easiest way to find, download, and install apps
<daniman> Ok, i want to download the apps from my computer and i install them offline
<daniman> is it impossible?
<pmcgowan> not sure how to do that, popey ?
<popey> daniman: we don't have an easy way to download clicks manually.
<MasseR> daniman: out of curiosity what's your use case
<daniman> MasseR: use case?
<MasseR> How come you want to transfer and install the files manually instead of using the store
<daniman> Connection problem lol
<MasseR> I think you're gonna have a hard time using touch without connectivity :)
<daniman> Yeah i had can get connections but currently using such things in from the sim card seems expensive
<daniman> sorry for the grammer
<MasseR> Yeah, I remember expensive mobile networks. 2007 I had something like 5â¬/20M
<MasseR> Now I got unlimited 4G with ~7â¬/mo
<brunch875> Â¿Unlimited? Â¿Where do you live?
<brunch875> I pay 13â¬/mo for 500M
<davmor2> pfff I get 20GB for Â£21
<brunch875> I want unlimited, even if it's as slow as 100kb/s
<brunch875> that way I don't need to 'avoid watching videos' or crap like that
<MasseR> brunch875: finland
<brunch875> Ah... the developed countries
<MasseR> A while ago I used mobile data for netflix because it was faster than my landline :P
<brunch875> here in spain we have to pay extra expensive taxes if we want to use our own solar energy
<brunch875> there goes progress
<MasseR> Same for us for electric vehicles
<MasseR> Electric vehicles pay the diesel tax
<brunch875> But I guess diesel vehicles also pay the diesel tax then
<MasseR> yep
<brunch875> nono, this tax I talk you about is exclusive to solar panels
<JanC> brunch875: for using your own solar panels or for delivering the surplus to the network?
<brunch875> Just for using them
<brunch875> The surplus you revert to the network you have to do it for free, without getting any $$$
<brunch875> and this is mandatory
<brunch875> anyone caught with one of those big batteries gets some massive fine
<brunch875> equivalent to having nuclear waste laying around your house
<daniman> any background apps which uses data? i should disable for low data usage
<brunch875> JanC: Just google for "sun tax". All results should point to spain :P
<JanC> well, handling/controlling the surplus actually costs money to the distribution network, so there is a bit of logic in that at least
<brunch875> The logic in these crazy laws is because all spanish politicians retire as counselors in energetic companies
<pmcgowan> daniman, several of the default scopes reach out to the network so you may want to remove them, but we don't really allow apps to do background processing unless using a standard service
<brunch875> corruption reeking everywhere
<brunch875> Does the "desktop mode" on the tablet allow background apps?
<daniman> pmcgowan: hmm which scopes? and if i don't start them should they connect automatically?
<pmcgowan> daniman, they will initialize but not necessarily udate unless you ask them to by swiping, today nearby music video
<pmcgowan> its not a lot but not sure how much you can tolerate
<daniman> pmcgowan: How can i disable them with out removing them? Music Scope  fetch some music images without my permission
<popey> davmor2: pmcgowan: what's the best channel for trying OTA-11 on frieza? ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris-pd.en is current channel.
<popey> daniman: swipe up, un-favorite them
<popey> (swipe up from the bottom that is)
<pmcgowan> popey, yes thats the right channel if you want stable
<pmcgowan> or same with rc-proposed
<davmor2> popey: ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris-pd.en
<popey> I thought I could do sudo system-image-cli --switch ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris-pd.en
<popey> but that fails
<popey> is there some other non-ubuntu-device-flash way to do this?
<popey> or do I just have to use udf?
<daniman> popey: i got that, but in the there is this homescreen maybe which can not be removed that the music scope fetchs data
<daniman> home*
<popey> daniman: no, un-favorite them all, the only one left is the app scope
<pmcgowan> daniman, or, go to the settings for each of the scopes and turn off the internet feeds
<daniman> is it possible i didn't know!
<pmcgowan> so for today scope toggle off bbc and other news sites but keep local info for example
<daniman> anyother?
 * popey flashes frieza
<daniman> and the facebook apps uses a lots of data
<daniman> is there any opera like browser for touch
<daniman> or similar
<pmcgowan> opera like?
<daniman> any opera-like mini browser?
<popey> davmor2: no
<popey> dammit
<popey> davmor2: pmcgowan seen this on frieza? location notification freaking out https://youtu.be/HlQA5it_fH4 https://youtu.be/8abo9WSqsLM
<pmcgowan> popey, no but its been reported
<davmor2> popey: nope
<pmcgowan> popey, be nice if you could track it down, let me find the bug
<popey> started with ota 10.1
<pmcgowan> popey, this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1573674
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1573674 in Canonical System Image "Location indicator appears and reappears continually on BQ Aquaris M10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pmcgowan> davmor2, I am updating frieza and ts taking a long time here, big ubuntu logo spins slowly
<davmor2> pmcgowan: yeap it's a huge image don't forget
<pmcgowan> it was indeed
<davmor2> pmcgowan: around a 1gb in total
<pmcgowan> was a 500MB update since 97
<pmcgowan> davmor2, so 10 mins? more?
<popey> pmcgowan: you wiping?
<pmcgowan> no updating
<pmcgowan> ota
<davmor2> pmcgowan: takes as long as it takes 5-10 maybe
<popey> because the only difference between when I had the location thing freak out and not, was i played with the location options in the wizard
<popey> like, ticked each one in turn, then chose the top one finally.
<popey> but with a clean OTA11 (rc-proposed) I didnt touch it, just left it default
<pmcgowan> hmm
<popey> and the location indicator is no longer freaking out
<pmcgowan> could be a clue indeed
 * popey leaves a note on the bug
<pmcgowan> ok m10 rebooted
<Ropax> Hello
<davmor2> Ropax: hello
<Ropax> Is there any option to install ubuntu touch on non-supported devices ???
<lotuspsychje> Ropax: port ubuntu-touch to a new device
<lotuspsychje> Ropax: or if the device is windows based, wait for unity8 to release and install ubuntu-desktop
<Ropax> k
<Ropax> thanks
<Ropax> And one more question can I install ubuntu touch via windows Pc
<Ropax> ???
<lotuspsychje> Ropax: does your windows pc have touch support on screen?
<davmor2> Ropax: no, ubuntu flashing tools are specific to ubuntu as far as I know
<Ropax> ok
<Ropax> thx
<ogra_> you might be able to use a VM though ...
<davmor2> ogra_: depends on usb throughput I guess but yes
<ogra_> (if it properly handles USB ports)
<ogra_> heh, snap
<Yoanncooljazz> Is there a channel where we can try the miracast feature ?
<Yoanncooljazz> Im impatient to try the miracast feature
<Sleep_Walker> faenil: where I can find packages of Libertine project?
<faenil> Sleep_Walker: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Libertine
<faenil> Sleep_Walker: let me link you to a related ML thread
<Sleep_Walker> I used apt on root filesystem in the past and got into trouble with firmware updates
<Sleep_Walker> (yet I still don't get why it is so hard :)
<ogra_> if you are on teh tablet https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
<faenil> one thing at a time :)
<faenil> ogra_: thanks that's what I was looking for :D
<ogra_> :D
<faenil> Sleep_Walker:  see ogra_'s link ^
 * ogra_ posted it often enough to ubuntu-devel-discuss in the last days :P
<faenil> haha
<faenil> ogra_: do you have any recipe to avoid screwing the system on upgrades?
<faenil> I never had any issue with it ..
<ogra_> not really ... apart from "re-flash it"
<Sleep_Walker> so why it is not just 'reflashed' by upgrade?
<faenil> ogra_: no I mean, is there any way to install packages as if you were using a normal linux box and minimize the chance of issues on upgrades?
<ogra_> if you use apt the package db and info as well as any manual changes you make to files get reverted with the OTA ... but the space doesnt get freed
<Sleep_Walker> I can reinstall my packages later
<ogra_> since the system expects a readonly setup the assumption is that there are no additional changes ... that the only way to apply the deltas cleanly
 * ogra_ looks forward to snappy ... where you simply cant make the readonly bits writable ... that will solve so many probs
<Sleep_Walker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Libertine - I miss 'libertine-scope'
<ogra_> you dont need the scope
<ogra_> (it is a convenience thing)
<faenil> Sleep_Walker: fyi, more info about upgrades at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades
<ogra_> "libertine-container-manager install-package" also works on local debs you hand to it ...
<ogra_> (beyond giving you the whole archive)
<mcphail> ogra_: can't you "unsquashfs" a snap to make it writable?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> only to unpack it  ...
<mcphail> ok
<ogra_> (beyond that snappy wouldnt let you use it if you re-packed it ... snaps are signed by the store)
 * mcphail has spent too long guddling around in /opt/click... to see the immediate advantages...
<ogra_> you will be able to  install snaps with the --devmode flag ... and you can tinker with them in an overlay bind-mount from the "snappy classic shell"
<ogra_> i just dont think you can do that with the rootfs snap ...
<mcphail> aah. Nice
<ogra_> advantage -> random people wont follow random howtos from the web to trash their phones and require support to restore them ;)
<tedg> mterry: So I have a silo with policykit-unity8 and accountsservice in it. How do I test the welcome screen issue?
 * ogra_ sees the ubuntu-phone ML and dances 
 * tedg didn't know ogra_ had so many ITAR restricted questions
<sebsebseb> oh yeah this is where I should be as well
<sebsebseb> this channel
 * faenil pictures Sleep_Walker playing with libertine
<sebsebseb> ah yes libertine to put own  programs on tablet
<sebsebseb> how to do that anyway?
<faenil> see previous link by ogra_
<ogra_> faenil, he joined later ;)
<ogra_> sebsebseb, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
<popey> is that for fiddling with the libertine stuff on the phone?
<popey> What if I want to create my own app and upload to the click store>?
<Sleep_Walker> faenil: well, I passed $ libertine-container-manager create --id vivid --type chroot --name 'Libertine Demo' and I'm waiting for result
<ogra_> that is for fiddling with the libertine stuff on the tablet actually ...
<ogra_> on the phone you wont have the tools installed by default
<popey> Right, I didnt mean phone
<Sleep_Walker> it looks like it prepares vivid chroot
<popey> Forget I said phone.
 * ogra_ forgets 
<popey> My question is actually, how can I make my own click based on libertine to go to the store?
<ogra_> popey, i would assume you actually upload to the archive ... (not sure how the libertine-scope works, but essentially it should only need a .desktop file and the knowledge which package to install)
<popey> uh no
<ogra_> i guess bregma or ChrisTownsend are your men
<popey> gimp etc are in the store
<popey> as a click
<ogra_> the whole of them ?
<popey> the ones that are on the tablet are inside a click
<popey> the purtine/libertine thing
<ogra_> thats different
<popey> the missing thing for me is how that gets made
<Sleep_Walker> faenil: the document ogra_ wrote relies on puritine and I don't seem to have it
<tedg> popey: Generally, I don't think you want that, eh? To avoid porting it?
<sebsebseb> ogra_: yeah I saw that before I am bit confuessed though
<ogra_> purtine is the whole container with all apps inside
<sebsebseb> ogra_: is everything there done in the terminal?
<tedg> It is a read only chroot
<sebsebseb> ogra_: also why do you have to nick say the gimp icon,  the gimp icon could then be used to actaully load up both gimp and inkscape?
<tedg> popey: But for completeness the puritine building tools are in the libertine repo. It's done by Jenkins.
<ChrisTownsend> What's the question?
<ogra_> sebsebseb, no idea, i'm justa user in this case :)
<sebsebseb> ogra_: and then it warns about stuff going wrong to,  what's the worst that could happen, and have you followed that guide?
<tedg> ChrisTownsend: They want to build their own RO libertine containers like puritine.
<ogra_> and ship them as click packages in the store
<ogra_> (well, popey wants) :)
<popey> I want to take random x app and make a click so i can put it on all my devices
<popey> like what you have with firefox etc
<popey> and my friend wants it to, so I thought I'd put it in the store
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Well, it's not so simple.
<bregma> popey, it's kind of like overseeding your friend's garden with zucchini
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Currently, I build a huge deb in a non-virtual armhf PPA.
<faenil> Sleep_Walker: you don't need puritine afaik. Puritine is only the container that is shipped with the M10 with the apps preinstalled
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Then download that deb and extract it.
<popey> ok, thats cool, i can do that
<bregma> popey, you're better off just creating a libertine container on your device and the installing the debs into it
<bregma> and for that, you want OTA-11
<popey> I absolutely don't want to do that
<sebsebseb> popey: oh you want the apps in a more native way yeah?
<sebsebseb> not this hackey thing
<popey> I would like to make the simple x app available to multiple people
<popey> not as a command line hack on my tablet alone
<sebsebseb> popey: indeed to that :)
<bregma> popey, the other right thing to do is wait until snaps are supported on the phone, then usesnapcraft to build a libertine snap
<popey> hahahah
<popey> yeah, okay
<popey> so that'll be good for next year
<popey> I'm talking about this year
<sebsebseb> convergence x apps  installed from the app store, that's what popey means I think
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Yeah, the way I make Puritine is quick hackey.  Just trying to give instructions in this channel is going to be frustrating at the very least.
<bregma> mean time, wait for OTA-11 and the libertine scope and everything is *much* easier
<ChrisTownsend> I mean quite hackey
<ChrisTownsend> bregma: He wants to build his own bespoke container, package it in a click and make it available for folks to install.
<tedg> popey: If X is the only requirement, that's just putting a key in your desktop file. But you'll need to deal with window management yourself.
<popey> I agree that providing documentation via irc is not ideal
<popey> I was kinda hoping a doc somewhere may exist which details how this might be done
<bregma> I'm suggesting it's not a good idea, that's all
<ChrisTownsend> bregma: I agree
<bregma> it's possible, it's just going to be painful
<tedg> It's not documented for a reason :-)
<popey> Why is it not a good idea?
<ChrisTownsend> Indeed, painful.
<popey> Every time I ask this question I get handwavy "it's painful" and never an actual answer
<popey> which in itself, is painful
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Because I made up the whole stuff and it's a pain in the ass for me to make up the Puritine click.
<bregma> for a start, the containers end up being huge and hard on my bandwidth costs
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Right, and what bregma just said.
<popey> I don't understand why you care what mine and my friends bandwidth costs are
<tedg> popey: Because basically you're installing a full OS for one app. For each app.
<popey> I mean, it's nice of you.
<popey> tedg: thats a better answer :)
<bregma> well, like I said, it's possible, just a matter of creating a container and slapping it in a click mostly
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Well, that is what is meant by "being huge".
<bregma> still, if you use the libertine scope it will be that much easier
<bregma> because at least that way the installed apps will surface and be launchable
<popey> I look forward to OTA-11 and this new functionality.
<bregma> it will end all wars and we'll be home by Christmas
<Sleep_Walker> faenil: where is libertine container installed to?
<faenil> can't remember, ogra_?
 * faenil -> dinner
<bregma> Sleep_Walker, when you create your own container it goes somewhere in ~/.cache
<Sleep_Walker> bregma: right, thanks!
<ChrisTownsend> Sleep_Walker: ~/.cache/libertine-container to be more exact
<sebsebseb> so the libertine scope, what will that be?
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: It is a scope that will surface apps and icons in all defined containers and make them available to launch.
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: No more having to use hacked up .desktop files.
<bregma> sebsebseb, it searches your libertine containers for installed applications (or at least they .desktop files they bundle in their debs) and lets you launch them through XMir
<sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: you mean a bit like say play on Linux,  GUI wine thing?
<sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: or Codeweavers ?
<sebsebseb> but yeah for
<sebsebseb> well not runing WIndow stuff :d
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yeah, kind of like that.
<sebsebseb> should sort out the depdances etc icons etc
<bregma> sebsebseb, it's a bit like the regular dash, except it finds debs instead of clicks and always launches XMir
<sebsebseb> and  then voilla
<sebsebseb> can start having more of what programs are wanted, and easier?
<bregma> sebsebseb, yes
<sebsebseb> so it will just search the normal repos for anything?
<sebsebseb> or  selected stuff only? choosen packages?
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Only installed packages
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: You will need to use the GUI or CLI to install packages in the container.
<sebsebseb> I want say program xyz  it's in the Ubuntu repos the normal ones, I can get it?
<bregma> sebsebseb, except finding and installing the programs is still going to be hard, because XMir is still very much pre-consumer and we expect a lot of problems with random packages
<sebsebseb> yes not everything will work in it, I reolise that
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes, you can use the Libertine GUI or the Libertine CLI, ie, not the Libertine Scope.
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: But it will do an apt-get from the archive in the container.
<bregma> there's a Linertine GUI app (the "top hat" app) to manage your containers and apps, but it's not like using the store
<sebsebseb> the libertine GUI will be like a package manager?  like software centre or Synaptic etc?
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: The GUI is the container manager, so you can create and delete containers, install and remove packages, etc.
<bregma> there will be a consumer-friendly store scope for installing from the Ubuntu archives into a Libertine container, but not for a while
<sebsebseb> containers you mean like Wine?  wine can have like different set ups for differnet programs
<bregma> not until things like proper multi-window support and cut-and-paste are fully working
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: It's a very, very simple package manager.  You can enter the exact package name, or do a search which is based on apt-cache search.
<bregma> sebsebseb, yes, multiple containers are possible
<sebsebseb> multiple set ups depending on program right ok
<ChrisTownsend> A container is like a bottle.
<sebsebseb> so it will be able to search for anything, but if the program installs and works or not that's just questionable
<sebsebseb> that was my undersatnidng all along with xmir, it's quite new,  not all programs will work with it etc
<sebsebseb> or work properly
<bregma> sebsebseb, most people do not share your understanding, so we're not making it easy for them
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Right, but some packages are broken in that they don't always pull in everything they depend on.
<sebsebseb> yep depdandancies hell ilke with normal distros in the past :D
<sebsebseb> not so mucn now
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: A container is very minimal and some packages assume they are being installed on a full system.
<ChrisTownsend> Indeed!
<sebsebseb> package depdancies
<sebsebseb> so this GUI thing though
<sebsebseb> is it going to have like some trusted suggested packages in it?
<sebsebseb> and then if want to try something else search for it y9ourself
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Nope, it's blank the first time firing it up.  You'll need to create a container and then explicitly install packages.
<sebsebseb> a libertine or whatever it's called container you mean?
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes a Libertine container.
<sebsebseb> what's purtine as well by the way?
<bregma> sebsebseb, the Libertine "Store" should have suggested and featured packages, just Ubuntu SOftware does in Unity 7 right now
<sebsebseb> bregma: ok yeah that sounds good :)
<bregma> sebsebseb, Puritine is a pre-packages Libertine container
<sebsebseb> so there will be two package managers really, one for native apps, and one for convergence apps
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Puritine a special custom curated Libertine container w/ 5 apps pre-installed for inclusion on convergence devices.
<bregma> it was for demonstrating what can be done
<sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: is that the one that's on the BQ tablet by default then purtine?
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes
<sebsebseb> rihght ok I got that then
<sebsebseb> since I got one of the tablets
<sebsebseb> that explaisn the hack a bit I think the linked to one
<sebsebseb> you basically edit purtine like that to do own stuff?
<bregma> sebsebseb, a final step will be to merge the package managers into an aggregating scope, so one place to discover and install software
<popey> ChrisTownsend: so do i understand that a user will be able to use the scope to install -any- x app from tge archive?
<popey> *the
<bregma> popey, yes
<ChrisTownsend> popey: No, not the Libertine Scope.
<popey> hahah
<popey> yes/no
<popey> pick only one
<ChrisTownsend> popey: It's only for surfacing apps and making them launchable.
<bregma> popey, you can do that today from the Libertine GUI app
<ChrisTownsend> Libertine GUI != Libertine Scope
<mhall119> popey: http://blog_uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/screenshot20160506_105618896.png is the libertine GUI app searching the archives
<sebsebseb> yeah the scope is for displaying what's installed like a menu I guess :d
<sebsebseb> and  Libertine GUI is for installing or the command line way
<bregma> popey, there's the Libertine Scope for surafcing and launching installed apps (coming for OTA-11), and a Libertine Store scope for discovering and installing apps (somewhere down the pipe)
<popey> gotcha
<bregma> "Store" might be a misnomer, I don;t think it's supposed to support paid apps
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: When OTA11 is released, it will be much easier to create your own container along side the Puritine container.
<mhall119> Libertine Apt Scope
<sebsebseb> bregma: Libertuine GUI may not be in OTA 11?
<popey> how does one get libertine app that mhall119 just linked to?
<mhall119> would be the most accurate way to describe it
<mhall119> popey: apt-get install libertine libertine-scope
<popey> on a tablet
<popey> not desktop
<bregma> popey, sebsebseb the Libertine GUI is only available as a deb right now
<popey> ok
<bregma> because, well, for reasons
<popey> heh
<mhall119> enable writable system partition, apt-get install libertine libertine-scope
<popey> nope
<popey> not making my tablet writable :)
<popey> I'm a user! :)
<ChrisTownsend> Ya, still a little rough around the edges:)
<sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: bregma and then as a side thing get copy and paste between programs working and using without a phsyicall keyboard to and yep convergene is better :)
<mhall119> popey: re-package libertine as a click, upload to store, install libertine app
<popey> mhall119: welcome to where we came in :)
<mhall119> dammit
<sebsebseb> popey: you really don't want to do the earleir linked to hack for purtine though?
<popey> no
<popey> I'm using this tablet as a user
<bregma> the Libertine GUI is a QML app, so it can just be packaged as a click
<sebsebseb> popey: whhy not, since you want something more native?
<popey> I don't want to do hacky things on it
<sebsebseb> ah right I see
<sebsebseb> worried someting will go wrong?
<popey> I have other devices for that
<popey> no, I just dont want to do things a normal user wouldn't do
<ChrisTownsend> Yep, Libertine GUI is most definitely click-able.
<sebsebseb> why's that this time?
<mhall119> like use a first-gen Ubuntu tablet?
<sebsebseb> mhall119:  h e h :d
<sebsebseb> mhall119: actsaully I think a normal user if the fan boys count as normal users, the kind on om g ubuntu I mean :d,  then sure they would use it already h eh :d
<sebsebseb> quite a few
<mhall119> ChrisTownsend: what about things like the libertine-lxc-manager can that be delivered via click?
<mhall119> or would some things need to go into the system-image?
<ChrisTownsend> mhall119: libertine-lxc-manager is really only for the desktop, so a click is unnecessary.
<sebsebseb> popey: what will you us the tablet for :d
<bregma> mhall119, we're better off having the libertine tools (no GUI) in the system image, along with XMir
<mhall119> oh, it's not needed on phablets?
<ChrisTownsend> mhall119: LXC is not on devices.
<ChrisTownsend> mhall119: Nope
<mhall119> oh, ok
<popey> sebsebseb: what everyone uses tablets for
<sebsebseb> what is a phablet really, I think I looked that up before, but didn't quite find out
<popey> big phone
<ChrisTownsend> phone+tablet
<mhall119> sebsebseb: phone+tablet
<ChrisTownsend> lol
<sebsebseb> oh
<mhall119> really, the range of devices that go from phone to tablet
<sebsebseb> and sure the bq tablet is basically ubuntu phone on a big thing
<sebsebseb> ,but  can it do calls?
<bregma> sebsebseb, "phablet" is a portmanteau, a fake word made up to describe something new
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<sebsebseb> I see and yeah I knew it was a well tech term at least :d
<sebsebseb> not so much a made up word
<sebsebseb> anyway so OTA 11 is in about three months?
<pmcgowan> no couple weeks
<sebsebseb> really only two weeks?
<sebsebseb> well I suppoues 10 was the other month
<pmcgowan> we plan for every 6 weeks, it slipped a week this time
<sebsebseb> 6 weeks or about and a OTA ok :)
<sebsebseb> why are things based on 15.04  I seen certian tablet reievws mentiong that even
<sebsebseb> plus I noticed that the putine stuff is from 14.04 even or so it seems
<popey> I look forward to being able to install hexchat ã
<sebsebseb> popey: h eh yeah and I remember that chat the other day
<bregma> popey, after some bugfixes in OTA-11 land, you can do that from the command line
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: puritine is based on 15.04 (vivid)
<pmcgowan> there was an ABI break in 15.10 so we stayed on 0 longer
<pmcgowan> 04 that is
<sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: ok, but why not 15.10  at least then?
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: The container really should match the host's release or there are problems, particularly if the container is newer than the host.
<popey> this is all quite exciting stuff. good work chaps! :)
<sebsebseb> the host as in the version of Ubuntu touch you mean?
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: I tried to get Wily to run in the container on the phone and it simply did not work.
<sebsebseb> but why is Ubuntu touch based on 15.04 as well?
<sebsebseb> popey: it is yeah
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Yes, Ubuntu Touch version.
<pmcgowan> sebsebseb, there was a new gcc in 15.10 that changed ABI
<ChrisTownsend> popey: Thanks
<sebsebseb> yes I know what gcc is or have enough of an idea,  ABI  on the other hand sounds familur, but I am thinking what's that
<pmcgowan> so we could not maintain compatibility for apps and scopes and such easily
<pmcgowan> the interface for binaries
<sebsebseb> 15.10 would have changed to much without little gain basically, so Ubuntu touch for now is still based on 15.04 basically?
<mhall119> 15.04 + an PPA that brings in newer components for the phone
<mhall119> well, phone, tablet, Unity 8 in general, etc
<sebsebseb> yep I know it runs some later software than the actsual desktop 15.04, Unity 8 for example
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Making a bunch of folks recompile their apps and scopes is not what we wanted to do.
<sebsebseb> ChrisTownsend: well yeah unless with good enough reason
<ChrisTownsend> sebsebseb: Exactly
<sebsebseb> some people think it will soon be based on 16.04,  but will it?
<pmcgowan> yes, for some definition of soon
<sebsebseb> uhmm  I don't know three months?
 * mhall119 flashes his phones for OSCON
<mhall119> this convergence demo is going to be awesome
<sebsebseb> mhall119: why?
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> whih convergence demo?
<mhall119> sebsebseb: because I haven't updated them since SCaLE in January
<sebsebseb> so your staritng over factory reset?
<mhall119> sebsebseb: with the new dynamic scaling in Unity 8, hot-plugging/unplugging from a monitor will work well
<mhall119> sebsebseb: on my demo phones, yes
<mhall119> not my daily-use phone
<sebsebseb> what is your demo phone?
<mhall119> that one gets updates almost daily
<mhall119> sebsebseb: they're all Nexus 4
<sebsebseb> mhall119: why no acstaul offical Ubuntu touch hardware, since it's a bit harder to get in USA generally or can be, and  doens't work so well with the US networks?
<mhall119> sebsebseb: because I have these Nexus 4s already, and because they have hardware video out support
<sebsebseb> video out to a T?
<sebsebseb> TV?
<mhall119> sebsebseb: to anything with HDMI input
<mhall119> popey: are you bringing any commercial devices?
<sebsebseb> popey: mhall119 maybe not that sat on one :d
<popey> mhall119: eh?
<popey> mhall119: oh, next week.
<mhall119> popey: was wondering if you had any Bq or Meizu devices you're bringing, other then the M10 (which I'm just assuming you're bringing)
<popey> I'll have 2x bq e4.5, 1x bq m10
<popey> mx4 is still broken
<popey> i should pack
<popey> getting picked up in 12 hours
<sebsebseb> ogra_: I might try that hack  soon :d
<sebsebseb> popey: mhall119 OSCON is one of the US events I think
<sebsebseb> popey: off to the US again?
<mhall119> popey: see you tomorrow then
<mhall119> sebsebseb: yes, in Texas this year
<sebsebseb> popey: Canonical paying for you to go :d ?
<popey> i should hope so
<mhall119> sebsebseb: well he's working, so yes
<sebsebseb> popey: mhall119 what you guys going to do at OSCON?  run an Ubuntu stand?
<popey> Really looking forward to this week. Gonna be super busy
<mhall119> sebsebseb: yes, also attending community leadership summit and having a team sprint, we'll be busy
<sebsebseb> mhall119: popey  he h no video q a on Tuesday I guess :D
 * mhall119 is wondering if he can get a backpack with a laptop, tablet, 2 phones, a bluetooth keyboard and 2 wireless mice through airport security
<mhall119> 3 phones, my personal one will be in there as well
<sebsebseb> mhall119: yeah probably unless TSA go after geeks now :d
<mhall119> I encountered a TSA agent who was quite fond of Red Hat one trip
<sebsebseb> oh nice :)
<mhall119> thought for sure I was going to get the "enhanced screening" for wearing my Ubuntu shirt
<mhall119> oh, hey, the first-boot screens have changed
<mhall119> a *lot*
<mhall119> these are lovely
<sebsebseb> yes it's like Desktop Ubuntu
<sebsebseb> been like that for a while
<sebsebseb> Plymouth type thing
<sebsebseb> that's what you mean I assume to
<mhall119> sebsebseb: no, I mean the setup wizard
<sebsebseb> oh
<mhall119> I see the bootsplash often enough on my own phone, but haven't done a new setup in a while
<mhall119> oh, I can give it a name now?
<sebsebseb> popey: 16th May to 19th OSCON,  so your going a bit earlier to spend time with mhall119  then :d  special time
<mhall119> sebsebseb: CLS is 14 & 15
<sebsebseb> and to adjust to the time zone maybe
<sebsebseb> oh there's another one first
<sebsebseb> CLS? what's that?
<mhall119> sebsebseb: http://www.communityleadershipsummit.com/
<sebsebseb> JOno at that one
<popey> it is indeed quite handy to stream the tablet to your laptop http://imgur.com/oPD7qVV :)
<sebsebseb> mhall119: that was just coincidence at same kind of place or?
<mhall119> sebsebseb: no, it's been co-hosted with OSCON before
<popey> mhall119: the first boot screens are great, until you get to the location one
<sebsebseb> popey: how did you streame tablet to lap top?
<popey> sorry, timezone
<mhall119> popey: because you can't go back after that
<mhall119> ?
<popey> sebsebseb: shell script
<popey> http://popey.imgur.com/all/
<sebsebseb> what's the script I guess :D
<popey> bah
<mhall119> what's wrong with the timezone screen?
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/aFZC2in.jpg
<popey> the map, osx and purple banner take a lot of room
<popey> with the osx overlapping the map
<mhall119> oh, it looks fine on a phone :)
<popey> so you cant actually see it
<popey> hah
<sebsebseb> for some reason my tablet thinks I am in London after first set up which is not the case, but I will be re setting up soonish anyway, but I wonder what had happended there
<popey> I'll bring these two with me http://imgur.com/SNy4nIX
<popey> yeah, mine thinks I'm in london, pull down refresh changes that
<popey> I wonder if I can stream my tablet directly to twitch or youtube
<popey> should be possible
<sebsebseb> popey: pull down refresth changes it where?  I looked for some kind of changing optoin but coudnt' seem to find
<popey> in the nearby scope for example
<sebsebseb> it's up staris right now, but I'll have to take a look at that
<sebsebseb> which phones are those two?  they both look black and yeah :d
<popey> both e4.5
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<sebsebseb> popey: when you going back from USA?
<popey> next week
<sebsebseb> day after event?  OSCON?
<sebsebseb> popey: no proper tourist day :D on Canonical's money h eh
<sebsebseb> ?
<popey> nah
<sebsebseb> back day after, or last day of event?
<popey> yeah, back after oscon
<popey> mhall119: have you seen there's a telegram snap in the store now?
<sebsebseb> popey: on the same day would suck though, since your in well quite a time zone differnece
<popey> its an overnight flight back from us
<popey> so sleepy sleepington
<sebsebseb> but I suppouse can sleepon plane sure
<popey> some of the app names in the snap store are fun
<popey> sudo                   1                        not sudo
<sebsebseb> the snap store for desktop?  not used that
<sebsebseb> or did  you mean touch?
<popey> desktop
<popey> right, off to pack... ttfn
<sebsebseb> yeah  not on 16.04 yet
<sebsebseb> popey: ok have fun in USA etc :)
<mhall119> popey: no, is it the desktop app or the Ubuntu SDK one?
<popey> mhall119: desktop
<mhall119> ah, I want to see our version gain convergence layouts
<mhall119> popey: is there a way to get the dark theme back for the file manager?
<popey> install an old click
<popey> patches welcome
<popey> trolololo
<mhall119> I'll file bugs, that's almost as good as a patch right?
<popey> no
<popey> lets work on this next week :)
<popey> I'll patch if you help :)
<mhall119> I might be up for that
<mhall119> as long as it's in the QML parts
<popey> yes
<popey> +1
<popey> ^5
<mhall119> but, keyboard shortcuts in the terminal first
<mhall119> because using the mouse is killing me
<popey> +1
<popey> deal
 * mhall119 files bugs
<mhall119> sergiusens: is your telegram snap fully confined?
<mhall119> (other than X11 that is)
<sergiusens> mhall119 yes
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> and does the unity7 plug/slot thing mean you don't have to bundle all the runtime dependencies that are already installed?
<sergiusens> mhall119 it is missing some things though; it doesn't open urls (there's a snapd bug open for that) and there is no menu (lacking interface support)
<sergiusens> I am living fine without that
<sergiusens> but not using it even as I am working from my bq m10 now
<mhall119> menus require a snap interface?
<mhall119> sergiusens: well, you have the telegram click for your M10 :)
<sergiusens> mhall119 not menus per se, app indicator icon menus
<mhall119> oh, those, ok
<sergiusens> mhall119 yeah, but I get left out on the super group channels :-P
<mhall119> they need something separate from the unity7 interface?
<sergiusens> have plenty of those now
<sergiusens> mhall119 the unity7 interface needs to be expended to support that
<mhall119> ok
<ahoneybun> yay video recording is fixed on the N7
<ahoneybun> boo playing it from the Video Scope will reboot the device
<ahoneybun> mm even file manager
 * ahoneybun wonders about filing a bug 
<ahoneybun> mhall119 any idea where to file it?
<ahoneybun> there is no bug about video in camera on LP
<ahoneybun> so maybe Media Player?
<ahoneybun> mm even Gallery reboots the tablet when trying to play the video
<ahoneybun> who can I talk to about clearing some bugs out of there
<ahoneybun> there is one from 2013 about the OG N7
<ahoneybun> so it is any MP4 file
<mhall119> ahoneybun: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mediaplayer-app/+filebug?no_redirect
<mhall119> you might also ping jhodapp when he's around about it, in case it's a gstreamer thing
<ahoneybun> mhall119 got it from that Avengers page :)
<ahoneybun> have the report made but updating to the latest image to see if there are any changes
<ahoneybun> I see they jumped from 434 to 436
<ahoneybun> damn this update is slow
<ahoneybun> mhall119 bug report not needed
<mhall119> ahoneybun: did the upgrade fix it?
<ahoneybun> yea Media Player plays the recording
<ahoneybun> but my MP4 did not play though
<ahoneybun> another file not the video I recoreded
<ogra_> just use VLC :P
<ahoneybun> the built in tools should work
<ogra_> definitely (i wasnt serious ... while VLC works, it isnt accelerated ... closer to a slideshow ...)
<ahoneybun> yea
<ahoneybun> I don't have libertine or anything working on this
<ahoneybun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mediaplayer-app/+bug/1581242
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1581242 in mediaplayer-app (Ubuntu) "MP4 playback does not work" [Undecided,New]
<ahoneybun> ohhhh links work in Synergy
<ahoneybun> shared clipboard, nice!
<ahoneybun> mm how does Libertine work...
<ogra_> very nicely
<mhall119> ahoneybun: you need to install libertine and libertine-scope from the archives
<ogra_> not if he runs ubuntu-pd
<ahoneybun> yea -scope is not on the repos for me yet
<ogra_> (and you dont need -scope)
<ahoneybun> also need some other deb that I don't have
<ahoneybun> maybe the arm one
<ogra_> if you are on the -pd image libertine-container image is installed
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> libertine-container-manager
<ogra_> ahoneybun, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
<ahoneybun> ogra_ don't think there is one for the N7
<ogra_> no need to tinker with the system that way ...
<ogra_> there is definitely oone for the N7
<ogra_> i used it before i got the M10
<ahoneybun> sweet
<ogra_> http://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/ubuntu-pd/
<ogra_> there is a flo build
<ogra_> (note that it has the tools but no container preinstalled ... you need to follow the gdoc above to get a container and install apps in it)
<ahoneybun> I wish bluetooth working more often
<ogra_> invest in an M10 ... the HW support is classes better than for the N7
<ahoneybun> I just saw that
<ahoneybun> ogra_ kinda silly to get new hardware
<ahoneybun> I don't have the money for that
<ogra_> yeah
<ahoneybun> mm I don't have com.ubuntu.prutine or whaever
<ogra_> you only need libertine
<bregma> ahoneybun, you don't need puritine, just the libertine tools
<ogra_> ah, there is the boss :)
<ahoneybun> but that guide says purtine
<ogra_> what guide ?
<ogra_> (not the one i linnked)
<ahoneybun> yep
<ogra_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
<ahoneybun> the one you gave
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> yeah, ignore that ...
<ogra_> you obviously dont need to remove the config if you dont have it
 * ogra_ assumes libertine-container-manager will just create it when you run it)
<ahoneybun> well I started from the top[
<ogra_> right, it is for the M10 ...
<ogra_> assuming you have the preinstalled bits
<ogra_> whihc the N7 image doesnt
<ahoneybun> I did
<ahoneybun> trying to make a container
<ahoneybun> *trying
<ogra_> good luck :)
<ahoneybun> says I have no container
<ahoneybun> lol
<bregma> ahoneybun, if you're using an N7, make sure you have the python3-libertine-chroot package installed
<ahoneybun> mm
<ahoneybun> add as a dep please :)
<bregma> can't add it as a dep because it's only for some hardware and not others
<ahoneybun> mm something broken when installing that
<ahoneybun> updating to see what happened
<ahoneybun> I don't think apt upgrade will be good for OTAs
<ahoneybun> yay
<ahoneybun> the heck is ID?
<ahoneybun> libertine-container-manager create asks for -i/--id bregma
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> libertine-container-manager create -i puritine2 -n "Puritine 2" -t chroot -d vivid --force
<ogra_> -i
<bregma> I haven't been asked for ID for years
<bregma> ahoneybun, you need to give your container a unique identifier, one that can be used as a directory name in the filesystem (so, no '/' character)
<ogra_> -i/--id is the id of the container you create
<bregma> you don't need to specify "-t chroot" or "-d vivid" it's smart enough to do the right thing by default
<ahoneybun> a name?
<ahoneybun> what do I name it?
<ogra_> oh, sisnce when ?
<ahoneybun> like -i wise
<ogra_> (it didnt when i created my last contaainer=
<ogra_> -i ahoneybun-funny-container-foo
<ogra_> just pick one ...
<bregma> ogra_, the latest version in the archives has a whole lot of fixes, ready for OTA-11
<ogra_> ah, i'm on stable ... so still OTA10
<bregma> I wonder of we should look at autogenerating some unique random ID
 * ogra_ tries the "true experience"
<ogra_> yeah
<bregma> I'd hate to have to type all those random characters while testing though
<ahoneybun> I'm on r436 now
<ogra_> well
<ahoneybun> rc-proposed
<ahoneybun> not my phone so
<ogra_> and you would have a prob to install multiple packkages in the same container
<ahoneybun> till mariogrip gets a update out lol
<ahoneybun> maybe
<ogra_> if you cant memorize the name
<bregma> the GUI works for that, no need to memorize
<bregma> also, I ssh into everything
<ogra_> so probably not random ... but iterating number suffix or so
<bregma> originally I had a default ID of the distro name plus an increasing suffix, I think that code got replaced at some point
<bregma> then again, originally I was installing Debian sid in the container because there wasn't a core Ubuntu to use yet
<bregma> I don't think that would even work any more
<ogra_> oh ?
<bregma> been toying with this thing for a long time
<bregma> it might work,
<ogra_> oh, 15.04 ...
<ogra_> yeah, ubuntu-core tarballs for that might be gone indeed
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: update, me? :P the server should handle that
<ogra_> in general they are under http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-base/releases/
<mariogrip> #evertthingautomated :P
<ahoneybun> mariogrip kinda hard to move from Android with this Android Wear though
<mariogrip> oh, im working on some magic there too, i miss my moto 360
<ahoneybun> oh boy!
<ahoneybun> I have a Moto 360 now as well
<mariogrip> awesome :D
<ahoneybun> want to try something with my Nexus mariogrip?
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: what?
<ahoneybun> video works on my N7 now so Hangouts!
<ahoneybun> making a chroot atm
<mariogrip> sure :P call me when you want to test it out :P
<ogra_> (was "ubuntu-core" til last week... just got renamed to -base)
<ogra_> slangasek, wow, you renamed the old ubuntu-core tarballs retroactively ?
 * ogra_ wonders how many peoples scripts will break :) 
<ahoneybun> XD
<patwest> Is there a way to play video form the sd card without it copying the movie to the internal storage?
<mariogrip> ogra_: what? why is ubuntu-core renamed?
<ogra_> mariogrip, to solve naming confusion with snappy
<ogra_> patwest, if you use the video scope it doesnt get copied around
<ogra_> iirc thats just an issue when using the file manager
<patwest> I see, I will have to try that
<Acou_Bass> ahoneybun: which browser does it work in?
<ahoneybun> default
<mariogrip> oh so it's not the ubuntu-core (snappy iot version) that is renamed ogra_
<ahoneybun> Acou_Bass
<mariogrip> right?
<ogra_> no, the way older ubuntu-core tarball
<Acou_Bass> ohh cool, when i tried it in default browser it said i needed a plugin... is this an rc build or something?
<Acou_Bass> sorry ive only just gotten here and joined the conversation =)
<mariogrip> ok :)
<ogra_> (that exists since years ... but with snappy ubuntu core that became confusing)
<ahoneybun> Acou_Bass I'm on rc-proposed
<Acou_Bass> ahh
<ahoneybun> don't think it is in OTA10
<ahoneybun> will be in OTA11 for sure though
<Acou_Bass> sweet, ill wait for OTA then hee
<patwest> Has anyone gotten 128GB sd cards working on a BQ M10?
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: could you try a app for me on your tablet when you have time?
<ahoneybun> mariogrip of course
<ahoneybun> damn chroot takes time
<ogra_> patwest, works fine on mine
<ahoneybun> wish this had a progress bar
<patwest> ogra_: strange, I got a 64GB card working but the 128GB card is detected but does want to mount. What filesystem is on your card?
<ahoneybun> mariogrip your not on Hangouts you know
<ahoneybun> lol
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: sorry i had to accept u
<ahoneybun> yep lol
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: no answer :P
<ahoneybun> was trying
<ahoneybun> the window does not scale right
<ogra_> patwest, vfat indeed
<ogra_> (other FSes arent supported)
<mterry> tedg, you're not still around, I assume?
#ubuntu-touch 2016-05-13
 * ahoneybun goes back to making a chroot 
<ahoneybun> mariogrip what was that package?
<mariogrip> a browser, ill send it in soon
<slangasek> ogra_: sure did
<ahoneybun> ohhh
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: https://reep.io/d/r7wsl29pzc
<ahoneybun> downloaded going to install in a min
<ahoneybun> the chroot is almost done
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: thanks :D
 * ahoneybun wonders what that is 
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: it's an html browser :)
<mariogrip> https://github.com/browserhtml/browserhtml/
<ahoneybun> mm sounds simple
<ahoneybun> that's a pretty crazy idea
<mariogrip> yep :P but it works great
<mariogrip> browser inside a browser :P
<mariogrip> and that you can open a browser inside that
<mariogrip> then*
<ahoneybun> trhe heck
<mariogrip> :P
<ahoneybun> I did not see a browser in a browser
<ahoneybun> mm
<ahoneybun> on that page anyway
<mariogrip> not there,  but i debug it with chrome
<mariogrip> i start an nodejs server that serves this browser
<ahoneybun> so it is hooking into yours?
<mariogrip> no, only when i debug. it's an standalone app
<ogra_> you should really put that into a container that you put in a click that you run in a snap
<ogra_> (always that half breeded stuff ... tsk )
<mariogrip> ogra_: yeah, i'll (try to) snapcraft it
<ogra_> :)
<ahoneybun> the heck
<ahoneybun> mariogrip that worked
<ahoneybun> well Bing loaded lol
<mariogrip> google seems to block iframe
<mariogrip> so, google does not work
<ahoneybun> launchpad too?
<mariogrip> i dunno, haven't tested
<ahoneybun> I'm saying LP did not load
<ahoneybun> duckduckgo did
<mariogrip> oh, yeah it seems to be blocked that to
<mariogrip> i dunno why they block it
<ahoneybun> weird
<ahoneybun> want screenshot?
<mariogrip> yeah sure :)
<ahoneybun> mariogrip https://www.flickr.com/photos/44748317@N08/26705786890/in/dateposted-public/
<Acou_Bass> nice one :D
<ahoneybun> lol
<ahoneybun> Hangouts work in Convernge
<Acou_Bass> does it work in mobile-mode?
<ahoneybun> yea
<ahoneybun> it did not loss the call when switching
<Acou_Bass> i mean... im aware the hangouts.google.com site has the worlds worst mobile interface, but still
<ahoneybun> which was amazing
<ahoneybun> yea it does
<ahoneybun> mariogrip https://www.flickr.com/photos/44748317@N08/26705786600/in/dateposted-public/
<ahoneybun> here is the real one lol
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: awesome :D
<mariogrip> also awesome picture of me :P
<mariogrip> oh? i didn't know you could change the background https://www.flickr.com/photos/44748317@N08/26825825372/in/dateposted-public/ ahoneybun
<ahoneybun> it just changed it in the lock screen when mobile
<ahoneybun> but when it is docked it is the background
<mariogrip> oh, that's cool!
 * Acou_Bass REALLY needs to get his slimport fixed
<ahoneybun> yea but that wallpaper was the size for the tablet
<Acou_Bass> i wanna test convergencey stuff moe
<ahoneybun> I need a new better one
<ahoneybun> and a real bluetooth mouse
<Acou_Bass> its my phonet hats duff not the cable... USB port is fiddly
<mariogrip> lol, do have a fake bluetooth mouse :P i didn't know they existed ahoneybun
<mariogrip> do you ha...**
<ahoneybun> mariogrip the one I got has BLE
<ahoneybun> which does not work atm with Ubuntu
<ahoneybun> even desktop for some reason
<Acou_Bass> the cable on it is that invisible string you get on those fluffy worm toys so it looks wireless ;D
<mariogrip> ahh, ok :P
<ahoneybun> not sure if a bluez issue in Kubuntu as well
<ahoneybun> mariogrip tempted to use that hangout screenshot on my LoCo twitter account lol
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: sure, go ahead :P
<ahoneybun> XD
<ahoneybun> mariogrip https://twitter.com/ubuntufl/status/730924757483294720
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: :P
 * ahoneybun wonders who is MissyUbuntuCat 
<ahoneybun> https://twitter.com/MissyUbuntuCat
<mariogrip> it's an Norwegian hacker cat, that loves Ubuntu.
<ahoneybun> I'm guessing you own the account
<ahoneybun> lol
<mariogrip> nah, it's my cats accout
<mariogrip> here we go https://uappexplorer.com/app/browserhtml.mariogrip
<ahoneybun> mariogrip you pushed it?
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: yeah
<ahoneybun> that was fast
<mariogrip> :P
<Awesomeslayerg> Hi all I'm wondering what Android version the latest Ubuntu touch phablet is based on?
<Nyms> Hello
<Nyms> I'm on a fresh ubuntu LTS install (16.04)
<Nyms> And I would like to resume the dev' of my application
<Nyms> It's used zbar for scanning barcode
<Nyms> sudo apt-get install libjpeg-dev libzbar0 zbar-tools libzbar-dev libv4l-dev libqrencode-dev
<Nyms> and I've this error : :-1: erreur : error: /usr/lib/libzbar.a: No such file or directory
<popey> Nyms: odd, that works for me here
<popey> oh, you get the error when you run your app?
<popey> Nyms: maybe the app needs rebuilding?
<popey> Nyms: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libzbar.a is where the file really is
<popey> (on my 64-bit ubuntu install)
<Nyms> You're right
<Nyms> Thanks popey
<brunch875> Am I the only one who wakes himself up by reading the mailing list in bed?
<Smurphy> Yes... I read the Mailinglist in front of my coffe at breakfast ... :D
<Smurphy> Talking about mailing-list. anyone got a good RSS newsfeed reader for ubuntu-touch ? the ones that are there are not yet what I really think is best TBH...
<brunch875> I'm getting my hopes up for thunderbird to get to utouch
 * mcphail chokes
<mcphail> Surely thunderbird needs to be put out to pasture?
<Smurphy> thunderbird ??? for mail ?
 * brunch875 feels the peer pressure
<mcphail> :)
<brunch875> (: I suppose you're right
<brunch875> better have multiple programs doing stuff right than one which does everything
<brunch875> Man, pidgin is pretty sweet. I wonder if it'll reach utouch :)
<Acou_Bass> brunch875: thats the one thing im waiting for on utouch, a multi-protocol IM program
<Acou_Bass> sailfishOS has a super nice one, would love to see a similar thing
<brunch875> let's STEAL it :Ã
<Acou_Bass> wil sailfish apps run on utouch (assuming they are re-packaged correctly)?
<Acou_Bass> i suppose if not, the best bet would be just to run pidgin in libertine for the time being ;D
<mhall119> Acou_Bass: multi-protocol IM is planned, the developers are working on the backend stuff now to allow 3rd party plugins
<Acou_Bass> ahhh sweet
<brunch875> that's pretty fantastic news
<Acou_Bass> is it going to be a seperate app? or will it be in the messaging app (or is it too eary to tell)
<Acou_Bass> and is it using libpurple? telepathy?
<mhall119> Acou_Bass: it's a bit more complicated because we want to ensure confinement, so your MSN plugin can't snoop on your GTalk conversations
<Acou_Bass> ahhh true
<JanC> doesn't the phone already use telepathy for some things?
<mhall119> they will all be together in one app, but the framework will keep the actual code separate
<Acou_Bass> yeah
<mhall119> JanC: yes, the SMS app uses it
<Acou_Bass> so visually, as far as me as joe average user can see, theyre all in one app, but under the hood, GTalk cant see MSN :D
<mhall119> and I think the plan is for that app to become the multi-protocol app
<mhall119> Acou_Bass: correct
<Acou_Bass> thatd be great
<mhall119> Acou_Bass: it all also hopefully be a simpler API than telepathy or libpurple, to make it easier to add services
<Acou_Bass> this is a spot where i found android annoyingly lacking... and something i miss from my n900
<JanC> will that also apply to the call app?
<Acou_Bass> so would love to see it working on utouch ;D
<mhall119> JanC: I'm not sure, I haven't heard of any plans for the phone app
<JanC> would be nice to switch seamlessly between mobile calls & various VoIP
<mhall119> Acou_Bass: tvoss might be able to tell you more about the current status and planned timeline for this
<Acou_Bass> see, just as a non-dev i would love to see it using libpurple purely because the plugins are already there ready to be used, but i suppose as long as the biggies are implemented it doesnt matter toomuch
<JanC> Acou_Bass: telepathy can already use libpurple to implement protocols
<Acou_Bass> yeah but he said the new app isnt using either of them
<JanC> well, it's already using telepathy for SMS
<JanC> they just need to add some stuff to separate the processes that implement the protocols, I think?
<Acou_Bass> no idea ;D either way, all sounds cool
<JanC> well, "just"... it probably requires some work & testing to get that completely right  :)
<Acou_Bass> anyhoo, gotta go worky :P thanks for the info mhall119
<mhall119> np
<JanC> I guess for text messages it would be possible to design a simpler API
<JanC> (than telepathy/libpurple)
<tvoss> JanC, telepathy is the underlying middleware tying things together, however, we are indeed going to offer an API that is (a.) aiming to ease backend development and (b.) allow us to alter/update/maintain telepathy without breaking existing backend implementations
<JanC> ah, that makes sense
<saavento> Hi
<davmor2> saavento: hello
<brunch875> haha
 * lotuspsychje is running telegram snap from ubuntu-desktop
<lotuspsychje> great work guys!!!
<skay> hey, when I try to adb shell to my m10 should it pop up an authorization dialog? I'm not getting that
<ogra_> skay, did you enable developer mode ?
<skay> ogra_: yes
<ogra_> then it should work (at least from a xenial install)
<Funmungus> Is there any message on the client ssh'ing from?
<ogra_> ondra, do you know if the M10 adbd is backwards compatible to older adb clients ?
 * ogra_ always forgets 
<skay> Funmungus: is there a verbose mode for adb for phablet-shell etc?
<skay> ogra_: using xenial
<ogra_> Funmungus, ssh is just a normal ssh as used anywhere else in ubuntu
<ogra_> (the sshd on the devices has key authentication hardcoded though and password login disabled ... for obvious security reasons ... you need to put your key on the device first)
<Funmungus> There is no verbose mode for adb, as I understand.  adb --help for list of commands
<Funmungus> As for message, I meant what happens when you type "ssh phablet@ip" from your pc?
<skay> Funmungus: yep, I checked -h
<skay> Funmungus: I'm not actually using ssh, I was trying adb shell
<Funmungus> sorry my misunderstanding.  try "adb kill-server" and then "sudo adb devices"
<Funmungus> or "adb devices" and see if it says "connected" or "no permissions"
<ogra_> Fumif you didnt enable ssh from the terminal or a formerly established adb connection it will simply refuse
<skay> Funmungus: unauthorized
<skay> great googlymoogly I got the prompt
<Funmungus> k.  "adb kill-server" and restart as root
<ogra_> (and if you didnt copy your key in place but ssh is running it will reject the auth attempt)
<Funmungus> Yay prompt. grats
<skay> Funmungus: after killing hte server, and then sudo-ing adb devices I got the prompt on the tablet. thanks :)
<Funmungus> welcome
<skay> I recently got the tablet and haven't gotten around to playing with it much beyond browsing and reading email
<skay> just got a bt keyboard and mouse (connected the mouse yesterday, it's not discovering today)
<skay> and it's not discovering the keyboard at all
<ogra_> i think many BLE devices still have some issues ... it got a bit better with the first OTA but is surely far from perfect for that device class
<Funmungus> I just ordered mine yesterday, so I do not know device-specific things yet
<Funmungus> Might try removing remembered devices and reconnecting though.  On my PC the BT keyboard had some difficulties with entering randomized passkey on the keyboard.
<ogra_> if it is discovered it usually works fine ... prob is the desicovey
<ogra_> *discovery
<skay> I'll forget and remember, and play around a bit
<skay> my partner just told me that going to get coffee will also help. bbiab
<skay> ogra_: Funmungus thanks for the help
<skay> I'm a little happier
<ogra_> np
<Funmungus> Welcome
<mimecar> good evening
<ck_aut> Hi! I have a question. Is ist possible to get read write permission on touch with tje termibal only, or do i need the android-tool-dba?
<ck_aut> Sry...small keypad
<pmcgowan> ah he's gone
<sebsebseb> hi
<mimecar> hi sebsebseb
<Funmungus> @ck_aut, yes. as root `mount -o rw,remount /`
<ogra_> Funmungus, thats definitely the wrong answer ... (unless he is developing the system itself)
<ogra_> (but he is gone anyway)
<Funmungus> Thanks ogra_, now I have looked up android-gadget-service and learned the correct way.
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> making the system writable is in 99% of the cases not the right answer ... finding what the issue is the person wants to solve and helping him/her to solve it without making the device writable is the right way usually ;)
<nhaines> ogra_: you still around?  I have a libertine question.  :)
<ogra_> i'm in your TZ, so indeed :)
<nhaines> Oh really?  Nice.  Where's the sprint?  :)
<ogra_> vancouver
<ogra_> warm and sunny :)
<nhaines> Ooh, nice.  I see it's a beautiful 20Â°!
<ogra_> (or ... hot and snappy :) )
<nhaines> It's a lovely 25Â° here, hehe.
<nhaines> Okay, so I'm doing an Ubuntu 16.04 LTS presentation tomorrow and wanted to show off Unity 8.  Since it's not working on my desktop (again), it's Nexus 7 time!
<nhaines> The recommended image doesn't appear to have Libertine installed.  The pd image has lots of fake desktop icons.
<nhaines> What do you recommend is the best way to run desktop apps on a Nexus 7?
<ogra_> libertine indeed
<ogra_> i assume you have seen the gdoc ?
<nhaines> (I did make the tablet r/w and install things and it ran really nicely, but now that we have OTA-11 RC things, it's reflash time.)
<ogra_> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
<ogra_> (you might not need the first part, since that only exists when there is a container in the ro bit ... which ubuntu-pd doesnt have i think)
<nhaines> Yes, but I don't have libertine.
<ogra_> in -pd ?
<ogra_> you should
<nhaines> In stable/ubuntu
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> well, you said you'd re-flash
<ogra_> do that with -pd then
<nhaines> Ha, yes, I just did (with stable/ubuntu, which I was using earlier).
<nhaines> Okay, so re-reflash.
<ogra_> pd and then just follow the gdoc and install your apps
<ogra_> (and perhaps wipe the .desktop files for the non-existing apps in -pd)
<nhaines> Can I remove the false icons?  Like, if I want to install GIMP?
<ogra_> you need a new .desktop file anywaÅ· for the new container ...
<ogra_> you can use that one as input indeed
<nhaines> What exactly was OTA-11 supposed to do to make managing Libertine more user-friendly, btw?  I haven't noticed any changes since OTA-10.  :)
<SylvieLorxu> Is OTA-11 out?
<nhaines> SylvieLorxu: probably week of the 16th.
<SylvieLorxu> Oh cool
<ogra_> nhaines, i think the libertine-scope will be pre-installed
<ogra_> which willl give you a handfull of apps to install
<nhaines> But I'm running the first "release candidate" image of OTA-10.  :)
<nhaines> ogra_: Hmm, that'd be new, because it didn't a week ago.  :)
<ogra_> (on -pd and the tablet images that is)
<ogra_> but i am not sure
<SylvieLorxu> ogra_: Does it also move Firefox and so to "Legacy apps" so I know which apps need bluetooth keyboard? Because this way super confusing when I first got it :P
 * SylvieLorxu read up a bit on Libertine
<ogra_> (snappy kind of keeps me busy enough to not follow the phone/tablet development to 100% anymore)
<ogra_> SylvieLorxu, i dont know whats fixed yet ... i know there is work going on to actually give you an OSK with these apps though ... but not sure thats OTA11 or 12
<nhaines> Oh, I know the feeling.  Always kind of sad.  :)
<nhaines> It must be OTA12.
<ogra_> well, new duties ... it is how it is :)
<SylvieLorxu> ogra_: Okay, thanks ayway
<nhaines> Yup.  I've been having soooo much fun with lxd... trying to snappify software with snapcraft.  Haven't succeeded once so far, but at least I'm ruining container dev environments and not my shiny new 16.04 LTS install. ;)
<ogra_> there will be new examples soon (the guys around me just work on them) ...
<nhaines> In the bzr branch I hope.
<ogra_> and new interfaces to give you more abilities
<nhaines> I'm really eager to get Snappy 16 onto my RPi2.  :)
<nhaines> Although technically if I install Ubuntu MATE...
<ogra_> that will still take a while ... we only just re-defined the gadget and kernel snaps ...
<ogra_> i'm waiting for zyga to develop the new "ubuntu-image" tool that will be able to handle them
<ogra_> expect first experimental images in ~4 weeks
<nhaines> Aww, I was expecting them in 1 or 2.
<ogra_> well, re-doing stuff from scratch takes its time ... sadly
<nhaines> It took long enough for me to grok lxc... It doesn't make sense for me to attempt snaps if everything I'm going to learn changes again so soon.  :)
<ogra_> but you can use snps on your desktop meanwhile :)
<ogra_> ***snaps
<nhaines> Yes, but dpm gave me the RPi2 from the Ubuntu booth at SCALE and I promised him I'd put it to good use.  ;)
<ogra_> and there should be tons of them soon
<ogra_> sergiusens, released a telegram snap for the desktop yesterday ... try it ;)
<nhaines> Still, I'm much happier that you guys got snapd into Ubuntu 16.04 LTS and are being careful to do things *right* on full-snap systems.
<nhaines> Donno, not sure I can trust him. ;)
<ogra_> *I* do ... so can you ;)
<ogra_> trust me
<ogra_> :P
<nhaines> What I *really* want is the SDK app, not the repackaged desktop app.  Although the desktop app does in a pinch.
<nhaines> Plus!  Now I don't have to file that bug about ubuntu.com advertising Telegram as a main feature of Ubuntu on the desktop and it's not available on the desktop.  :P
<ogra_> over time everything will become a snap (i hope)
<nhaines> I can very vividly imagine running Ubuntu 16.04 for the next 2 years because all the software I *need* to be newer is a snap.
<nhaines> I mean, I won't, but I can't imagine it. ;)
<nhaines> s/can't/can/
<nhaines> But if I were running a small business (as opposed to sole proprietorship) there just wouldn't be any alternative.  It'd be the perfect thing!
<nhaines> Which almost makes up for the Ubuntu Business Remix that was only around for 3 months in February 2012.  :P
<nhaines> I want the phone/tablet welcome wizard on the desktop installer.  It's beautiful~~.
<ogra_> it will be in the unity8 desktop images i supposed
<ogra_> suppose
<ogra_> .... eventually
<bregma> for the record, the OSK in XApps may not show in in OTA-12 either, although it might
<bregma> the libertine scope will not be pre-installed in OTA-11 but it will be available from the store just like any click -- but the changes so it will work will be included automatically in OTA-11
<ogra_> you mean it wont magically implement itself ?
<ogra_> you really need to put more AI into your prototype code in the future, so it adds such features on its own ;)
<bregma> ogra_, of course it will just implement itself, we just need to feed it better craft beer
<nhaines> bregma: so here's the question!  *when* does it hit the store?  :)
<nhaines> (i.e., right now so it's in time for my demo tomorrow?)
<bregma> it hits the store when OTA-11 comes out, otherwise it just won't work
<ogra_> sergiusens, https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko
<nhaines> Aw.  I thought the store filtered that automatically.  :)
<bregma> nhaines, it might, but either way....
<nhaines> Hmm, it looks like maybe the Google Doc won't work... the Exec= field says "/bin/true"
<nhaines> Which I find suspicious.  :)
<ogra_> no, thats fine
<ogra_> dont touch the file content apart from Icon=
<ogra_> the actual info is in the file name
<nhaines> hax!
<nhaines> Okay, I'll wait patiently for this installer to finish.
<nhaines> Does this mean if I install LibreOffice and GIMP and GEdit, they'll just work?
<Acou_Bass> bregma: does this mean i wont have to use ubuntu-pd images anymore?
<bregma> Acou_Bass, only the -pd images have libertine-tools and XMir installed
<bregma> for now...
<nhaines> I suppose the next question is: when does that change?  :)
<bregma> I can't say for sure, but if I had to guess (and I'm only guessing), maybe OTA-12
<nhaines> I can see the OMGUbuntu article now.
<Acou_Bass> yeah but i mean, if/when libertine scope hits the store (after OTA 11 stables?) will that OTA have the libertine tools?
<nhaines> Acou_Bass: no, because that depends on the system image, and it's different for different devices.
<Acou_Bass> ahhh
<Acou_Bass> right
<nhaines> Acou_Bass: so if you have an MX10 you *already* have the libertine tools.
<bregma> yep
<Acou_Bass> yah, i dont have an mx10, i have a nexus 4 hehe but i run -pd ;D
<nhaines> Then likewise.
<bregma> we went with a separate base image for two reasons:  (1) we needed to demo the Pocket Desktop and didn;t want to break shipping phones to do that, and (b) we didn't want to ship X11 on the phones at all
<Acou_Bass> well yeah that was my query though - right now im using -pd builds, but would the libertine tools one day make it into non-pd images?
<Acou_Bass> ahhh right ok
<bregma> now that we proved our point, we want to go back to one single Ubuntu that rules them all and in the dark will bind them
<Acou_Bass> yah
<Acou_Bass> ;D
<bregma> eventuall, extend that to the desktops
<nhaines> bregma: so will 95% of everyone with Ubuntu devices just be angry when OTA-11 hits and there's a libertine scope in the store that doesn't do anything because they don't have a tablet?
<bregma> all your base images are belong to us
<bregma> nhaines, the scope requires a framework that is only on the -pd images, so it just shouldn't show up for other images
<Acou_Bass> nhaines: but he said libertine will be in the store, not preinstalled
<bregma> that is how I understand it
<Acou_Bass> if it were preinstalled i imagine people would be angry, but if not (and if the scope doesnt even show up instore for us) then i guess wed have no reason to be angry :P
<nhaines> Acou_Bass: no, just a scope to interact with Libertine software.  Libertine itself won't be in the stores.
<Acou_Bass> yeah sorry i meant scope =)
<nhaines> bregma: hmm, I'll be peering at the scope's click metafiles then, probably.  :)
<bregma> our plan is to have the libertine scope on the image with OTA-12, and remove the build-in icons from the Dash so there is no duplication and they people don;t expect Xapps to run just like native Apps
<nhaines> The fact that this container is still sitting around trying to update is just another reminder (that I didn't need) how nice image-based installs and updates are.  :P
<bregma> but things may change, they usually do
<nhaines> I think removing X apps from the launcher is a miscalculation.
<nhaines> I'm also sort of curious what happens to user data when they upgrade and the puritine container is gone.
<bregma> nhaines, eventually there will be an aggregating scope and they'll be back
<bregma> hopefully they will work better by then
<bregma> nhaines, your data is stored in bind-mounted directories under $HOME, they should be OK
<bregma> *that* part has been tested
<nhaines> bregma: that's good to hear!  :)
<bregma> yes, my Steam games.....
<nhaines> I wish the N7 -pd image had the puritine container baked in.
<bregma> nhaines, there were partition size issues that prevented flashing from working
<ogra_> no, you dont ... (fine for demos but really annoying when you want to remove bits)
<nhaines> bregma: oh, doubtless.
<sebsebseb> the google docs guide
<sebsebseb> if doing it for  inkscape or whatever
<ogra_> yeah
<sebsebseb> woudn't really effect anything else?
<nhaines> ogra_: yes, but it's demos I want.  ;)  Or at least a downloadable container.
<sebsebseb> if I then factory re set tablet it's wel defaults again?
 * bregma has to take off for the weekend
 * ogra_ has scribus, inkscape, vlc, smplayer and a ton of stuff i forgot installed
<nhaines> bregma: have a grat weekend.  :D
<ogra_> bregma, enjoy
<sebsebseb> ogra_: yeah I haven't tied yet
<nhaines> s/grat/great/
<sebsebseb> ogra_: still a bit hmm to it as well, like will it effect my OS install some how kind of  thing
<sebsebseb> ogra_: I was thinking I could try a bit on tablet, I want to do a factory re set a bit later on anyway
<ogra_> sebsebseb, no, it wont ... all stuff goes into your homedir
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<sebsebseb> also the guide is a bit confussing
<ogra_> you can just blow away the container with libertine-container-manager and start over if you want
<sebsebseb> how do you change the name of the program you want to install
<sebsebseb> and  edit the icons?
<sebsebseb> and I assume I got to do the guide using the terminal app as well
<ogra_> well, the .desktop file stuff is still a bit fiddly
<ogra_> but that also lives in your homedir
<nhaines> Oh good, errors were encountered processing: "x11-common libxtst6:armhf libfakekey0:armhf isc-dhcp-client: matchbox-keyboard matchbox"
<nhaines> I'm sure I don't need x11-common.
<sebsebseb> yeah exactly how to change the icon when on that step
<sebsebseb> it's not so clear from the guide
<ogra_> you edit the .desktop file
<ogra_> and point to an icon you provide
<sebsebseb> and how does it actully apt-get in fact, it never actusally says apt-get  in any of the commands
<sebsebseb> how do you edit the desktop file?
<ogra_> (you can fish it out of the container or just use one you download from somewhere)
<ogra_> editor ;)
<nhaines> sebsebseb: apt is container magic!
<sebsebseb> an editor that has to work in the termianl though for the guide/
<sebsebseb> ?
<ogra_> any editor that can access the files ... nano, vi whatever
<nhaines> Speaking of which, I wonder if I can chroot into this container and fix things, because it looks like it froze at 97%.
 * sebsebseb wasted the evening doing uh  well not much,  nearly mid night now. might try the tabet thing soon hmm
<ogra_> check libertine-container-manager --help
<ogra_> there is a command to exec commands inside the container
<sebsebseb> ogra_: converged gedit could access the file?
<ogra_> no
<sebsebseb> yeah I was thinking such
<sebsebseb> that no not that
<sebsebseb> need something in terminal
<ogra_> yeah
<nhaines> sebsebseb: nano!  :)
<ogra_> but nano is installed
<ogra_> and vi
<sebsebseb> I haven't really usded nano or hwawtever much
<sebsebseb> so
<sebsebseb> that's it's own experience tryiing to uh
<ogra_> so you even have choice ;)
<nhaines> There's nothing here about execing commands inside the container.
<nhaines> sebsebseb: nano is easy.  :)
 * ogra_ doesnt have the tablet handy atm, else i could tell you 
 * sebsebseb tends to use Gedit or something else thats graphical maybe in normal Desktop LInux
<sebsebseb> well mine is in the case in front of me...
 * sebsebseb should probably try the guide really and stop being such a scardy cat?
<ogra_> nhaines, you are looking for "exec" in the --help
<nhaines> sebsebseb: nano is pretty simple.  Just Ctrl-o to save.
<sebsebseb> Dr Pepper  what's the worst thing that could happen, when using the guide.  oh and sadly  the shops I was at earlier on today no Dr Pepper I wnted some of that
<nhaines> ogra_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16399813/
<sebsebseb> ogra_: still going to need a keyboad and mouse for certian programs I guess once on?
<nhaines> sebsebseb: all programs.  :)
<sebsebseb> ogra_: I wonder if I could play mealstrom for example :), old Astoridies like game
<ogra_> nhaines, oh, that seems to be a different version
 * ogra_ just grabbed hiw M10 ... 
<ogra_> *his
<sebsebseb> nhaines: have you done it? the guide?
<ogra_> libertine-container-manager exec -i container -c bash
<ogra_> that works here and gives me a shell
<ogra_> ;)
<nhaines> sebsebseb: no, and it's not looking so hopeful at the moment, either.
<sebsebseb> ogra_: nhaines sounds like next week won't really need that guide anymore,  but  the fun would be using the guide I guess first :d right?
<sebsebseb> nhaines: not looking hopeful why?
<nhaines> Hmm, not sure if it worked or not.  Maybe.
<nhaines> sebsebseb: because it won't get as far as building a new container.
<sebsebseb> nhaines: oh I see your trying to do the guide now
<nhaines> Yes, earlier this week I took the standard image and made it rw and installed libertine manually.
<sebsebseb> ogra_: guide shouold work on the default verison of touch or the update? I haven't done the ota update that I know there is yet, I could do though
<sebsebseb> nhaines: yeah I saw that earlier, that's the old thing, not needed anymre, since the guide
<sebsebseb> nhaines: that could be your issue to, that  you made everything rewriteable and now tryiin g that guide and yeah
<sebsebseb> the guide is for when everything isn't read write, I think
<sebsebseb> ogra_: whats the link again?
<sebsebseb> ogra_: I think I am going to try now yep
<nhaines> sebsebseb: yes, but libertine won't create a working container, so the guide is useless until then.
<sebsebseb> nhaines: but ogra did the guide I Think and had stuff working?
<nhaines> sebsebseb: if there's a libertine container, it probably all just works.
<sebsebseb> nhaines: yes you got to change purtine on the tablet that was my understanding
<sebsebseb> purtine is the demo liberatin continer with FIrefox and what not
<nhaines> I don't have puritine, so it doesn't apply.
<sebsebseb> nhaines: you do if got the tablet
<sebsebseb> or by default you did :d
<ogra_> sebsebseb, always do the update !
<sebsebseb> ogra_: normally I would I just hadn't with that yet
<ogra_> sebsebseb, it isnt my guide :)
<nhaines> sebsebseb: no, it's not available on the Nexus 7.
<ogra_> i think it was done by mzanetti
<sebsebseb> nhaines: yep no purtine then yep
<ogra_> i just spread the link
<sebsebseb> purtine is for tablet
<sebsebseb> ogra_: yeah what's the  llink again I Will try :)
<Acou_Bass> quick query... is there any way to fix overscan with utouch plugged into hdmi?
<nhaines> Acou_Bass: don't I wish.
<Acou_Bass> xD
<Acou_Bass> shame
<Acou_Bass> :P
<nhaines> Ooh, now I need to find out where this telegram snap is saving all of my data.
<sebsebseb> ogra_: nhaines Hmm well that's a good start (sarcasm), terminal app is just white
<sebsebseb> can't put in commands
<sebsebseb> I remember using that on a phone before and having to put in my pass code, can't do anything
<sebsebseb> maybe there 7th May update doesn' work so well with the deafult tablet version of the OS hmm
#ubuntu-touch 2016-05-14
<kurros> i wonder why BQ sent so many review units out of the tablet
<nhaines> I cannot get libertine to create a container at all.  :(
<nhaines> It tends to break on various packages, depending on which image I use.  But in the last couple images, it breaks on x11-common and matchbox.
<danwe> Hallo There - this is my first time here - does somebody have experience with Location Problems? I gave aquaris 4.5 and for the last two days I have no location service. anyone experience this kind of a bug? many thanks
<saavento> Downow is not anymore on the shop, just asking
<daniman> any viber third party app which is available for ubuntu-touch?
<daniman> or any api for development
<brunch875> it doesn't look like it
<daniman> brunch875: is that for me?
<brunch875> yes
<daniman> what doesn't look like it?
<brunch875> viber app
<daniman> i can't understand
<brunch875> It doesn't seem like there's any viber app nor any api available for development
<daniman> damn it, i want to use viber on ubuntu-touch
<daniman> can i dual-boot ubuntu-touch with andriod?
<daniman> on aquarisE4.5?
<Smurphy> What is viber BTW ? Got that phone too ...
<vitimiti> Hi. I'm trying to test Unity 8 on the desktop, but the tutorial prompts and it wants me to do a long swipe. Because it's the desktop, I can't do any long swipes and it won't let me use the desktop until I do that. Is there a way to force the tutorial as complete through terminal so that I can directly jump into using it?
<SylvieLorxu> You can't drag the mouse with held mouse button or so? I think that should be the same, idk :P
<SylvieLorxu> It's a random guess though
<SylvieLorxu> I know there's some place to set it as completed
<vitimiti> No, it won't let me click
<vitimiti> Only mouse movement is allowed during that part of the tutorial, I'm afraid
<SylvieLorxu> Ah...
<vitimiti> Oh, wait, somebody answered me in another room, thanks
<SylvieLorxu> :P
<vitimiti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16406808/
<SylvieLorxu> Ah, yeah, easy one-liner, can't believe you'd need to ask for that ;)
<vitimiti> SylvieLorxu, rude
<SylvieLorxu> vitimiti: I added a winking smiley, don't take it so seriously. It was sarcastic because who could remember such a command
 * SylvieLorxu shrugs
<SylvieLorxu> vitimiti: Seeing you're back now, do note that I used a sarcastic winking smiley, my point was "Wow, that's a pretty complicated one-liner, not something anyone could figure out just like that or even remember easily" :P
<vitimiti> SylvieLorxu, oh, yeah, sorry. My sarcasm is closer to... cynicism. I'm generally rude af when being sarcastic, don't mind me
<SylvieLorxu> Heh
<saavento> just had this alert before crashing x-chat and firefox
<saavento> xchat_print called without a valid context
<Acou_Bass> im so confused... i had HDMI out working on my nexus 4 yesterday perfectly... went to try it again, nada's
<mimecar> hi
<Acou_Bass> ahoy
<skay> hah, should ubuntu-device-flash get to a progress bar that flickers from more to less? i should take a movie of this
<skay> sorry, I didn't manage to capture it. I was going to share to ask if it is a known issue
<Acou_Bass> skay: yeah it does flicker, because theres more than one thing being downloaded, so its as though theres like 5 progress bars at once
<Acou_Bass> not sure if intentional but i think thats the reason :p
<skay> Acou_Bass: thanks :)
<skay> I'm trying to get a containr build, but always fails in the end
<skay> is there a troubleshooting doc for that?
<BoatyFace> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131813780607
<BoatyFace> LG Nexus 4 E960 - 16GB - Black with UBUNTU installed
<Manu97> Hello, I have an MX4 with the latest OTA 10.01 and there is no way to password protect it.
<Manu97> Even after setting a PIN I just slide to unblock. Is this happening on other phones?
<Acou_Bass> nope pin seems to work for me (nexus 4) - might be worth filing a bug for that
<Manu97> Maybe, although I would just like to be sure it's not only mine, as I have been using terminal (but no system files)
#ubuntu-touch 2016-05-15
<Guest48638> Hi everybody. I would like to install Ubuntu Touch on Asus Zenfone 2, could you help me?
<danwe> Hallo There - this is my first time here - does somebody have experience with GPS Problems? I have aquaris 4.5 and for the last two days I have no GPS/location service. anyone experience this kind of a bug? many thanks
<lotuspsychje> danwe: check our topic for existing bugs
<lotuspsychje> danwe: if you cant find similar, we advise a new !bug
<Smurphy> Hmmmm. If I don't get the bluetooth handsfree running in my car and my bike - I guess I'll have to revert my BQ4.5 to android :(
<mcphail> Smurphy: I wish there was more progress on the Bluetooth issues.
<Smurphy> yes. Me too...
<mcphail> And bluez is so tersely documented it is hard to help out
<hitman_> hello
<aquiles> Hii
<aquiles> Good morning
<aquiles> I'm using chatter app on my ubuntu phone
<aquiles> And works good
<aquiles> I liked to know when we can use unity launcher on bottom ???
<aquiles> Hii
<sebsebseb>  
<brunch875> Am I too optimistic to wish for steam + steam games to reach utouch?
<brunch875> gaben seems like a coolgui. Maybe he pushes it
<Kanba> Hi there, I recently bought a BQ Aquaris M10 Ubuntu Edition. With this I also bought a CSL Bluetooth Keyboard. I was able to connect it to the tablet. It works. But I have a german keyboard layout. Unfortunately I'm not able to put in the special (for german keyboard layout) charactes like the @ sign. Combination of the ALT key  with the CTRL key doesn't work. Any help?
<mcphail> brunch875: would require the games to be recompiled for ARM. Not going to happen
<brunch875> hnnng but I believe in gabenn
<brunch875> games like half-life; it's from 1996
<brunch875> sdl
<mcphail> sdl isn't magic
 * brunch875 's dreams are crushed
<mcphail> you'll need to content yourself with baldur's gate, dosbox and (possibly) scummvm for now
<brunch875> talking about games
<brunch875> did any rougelikes hit the store?
<Acou_Bass> mcphail: we have dosbox?/
<sebsebseb> anyone here?
<Acou_Bass> maybe
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: are the converged apps
<sebsebseb> the standard Ubuntu programs in normal Desktop Ubuntu?
<sebsebseb> or arm versions?
<Acou_Bass> i believe there are x86 versions of the core apps yeah
<Acou_Bass> i could be wrong
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: yeah that's what I thought
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: apparnatly can run loads of stuff on Android to via someting or the other hmm.  full Debian even or pretty much, just someone saying something another channel
<sebsebseb> people there were also a bit like Ubuntu convergence is a bit pointesls since...
<Acou_Bass> there are apps thatll install a full debian ARM image to android and chroot into it to run applications
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: yeah that's probably what he linked to
<Acou_Bass> but ubuntu touch runs the apps right on the hardware and turns into a real desktop when plugged in
<Acou_Bass> completely different setup hehe
<sebsebseb> seems can then run graphical progarms on  Andorid via Debian as well
<dobey> with basically no security
<Acou_Bass> well, its chrooted... but thats about it
<dobey> and afaik, that project is so far only actually built for nexus 5 on top of CM
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: dobey yeah I got  linked to this:  https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoDebianInAndroid
<Acou_Bass> there are lots of projects that are all basically the same thing
<Acou_Bass> debian chroot in android
<sebsebseb>  https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoDebianInAndroid
<dobey> sebsebseb: yeah, it's just a chroot though
<Acou_Bass> usually either using an android port of Xorg, or a VNC server for display
<sebsebseb> dobey: seems it can run graphical progarms to though?
<dobey> not withou an X server to display them on it can't
<sebsebseb> ful GNOME 3 even?
<Acou_Bass> there is an Xorg server for android, but most of the apps just VNC into it
<Acou_Bass> its a very hacky solution
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> so  Ubuntu convergence isn't pointless then :d as I thought
<dobey> if it's on an external display, i presume it runs an X server on the HDMI connection, and not on the device itself
<dobey> it also provides no real interaction between the two systems
<Acou_Bass> i have no idea about how it works on external display
<sebsebseb> also I got the like, why would you want to run desktop programs designed for mouse nad keyboard on a phone or table etc from someone else
<Acou_Bass> ive never tried that
<sebsebseb> why not just use a pc hting
<sebsebseb> h e h
<Acou_Bass> well that person doesnt understand ubuntus convergence at all
<sebsebseb> I think we need to wait for another two or so ota updates going by my chat here the other day
<Acou_Bass> because the apps have two seperate UIs, one for touch one for desktop and it automagically springs between them
<sebsebseb> ,but  once that, I guess people will see the potential of Ubuntu convergence more then
<Acou_Bass> it really is cool xD
<sebsebseb> the apps well via xmir get the two guis the two set ups?
<Acou_Bass> nah xmir apps arent convergence-ready for the most part, only the actual uTouch apps hehe
<dobey> right. running legacy x11 apps is basically orthogonal to the idea of convergence
<Acou_Bass> basically just there for exactly that
<Acou_Bass> LEGACY support
<Acou_Bass> :P
<Acou_Bass> because no one will ever want to use ubuntu on desktop if all their faovurite linuxey apps dont work on it
<sebsebseb> you mean on phone or tablet??
<Acou_Bass> well... ubuntu touch is eventually going to be 'normal' ubuntu
<sebsebseb> being able to run lots of standard Desktop Linux programs and properly, I see as a selling point, if it's not going to support say Andorid apps
<Acou_Bass> so it needs legacy desktop app support
<sebsebseb> 20 years worth ( or for the most part) worth of Desktop Linux progarms
<sebsebseb> the native apps are still lacking
<sebsebseb> the good ones to
<Acou_Bass> yaeh ive found that... theres a lot of webapps and not a whole lot of real native apps in the store
<sebsebseb> exactly which sucks really
<sebsebseb> ,but being able to run lots of Desktop LInux programs will be good :)
<Acou_Bass> which would be awesome, if the webapps were as awesome as they used to be back in... 12.10 was it? when they had notification intergration and everything
<sebsebseb> web apps are generally seen as eh
<sebsebseb> need good naive apps
<Acou_Bass> FWIW, i run a fair few desktop linx programs on my ubuntu touch phone and they work great
<Acou_Bass> as in, 'legacy' ones hehe
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: yeah the guide way?
<Acou_Bass> the what way?
<sebsebseb> the purtine hak?
<sebsebseb> hack
<sebsebseb> oh that's only on tablet
<Acou_Bass> puritine isnt a hack, but yes
<Acou_Bass> XD
<sebsebseb> there's a hack for purtine
<sebsebseb> to get other stuff running
<sebsebseb> but apparantly in about  a week or two it should be easier to install stuff without that
<Acou_Bass> its not really a hack... you just use the puritine app to install more programs..
<Acou_Bass> XD
<sebsebseb> ok so this debain for android thing
<sebsebseb> is uhmm
<sebsebseb> not so great?
<sebsebseb>  https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoDebianInAndroid
<mcphail> Acou_Bass: popey has a build of dosbox. Don't think it is store-ready yet
<Acou_Bass> thats awesome
<Acou_Bass> i love dosbox
<Acou_Bass> scummvm even more :D
<sebsebseb> mcphail: dosbox interesting
<sebsebseb> mcphail: I was actsaully thining about wine the other day and I guess today a bit to
<sebsebseb> if could run Wine on the tablet :D
<Acou_Bass> broken sword and monkey island on utouch :D
<Acou_Bass> sebsebseb: i dont think wine has an x86 to ARM translator... so probably not
<mcphail> scummvm is in progress
 * sebsebseb hasn't done the purtine hack thing yet, but soon I guess
<sebsebseb> oh actsally
<sebsebseb> wait no now I Remember what it was
<Acou_Bass> coooooool
<sebsebseb> so with the default installed version of Ubuntu touch
<Acou_Bass> i love me some scummvm
<sebsebseb> that came with the hd tablet
<sebsebseb> the terminal app well is just white. that's it
<sebsebseb> doesn't work
<sebsebseb> I should probably OTA update and yeah yeah and I will sure, but what I just put
<sebsebseb> seems they updated it the other day the terminal app and I guess it broke that version of Ubuntu touch maybe?
<sebsebseb> mcphail: what's scumvm ?
<dobey> what terminal app?
<sebsebseb> dobey: Ubuntu core developers?
<sebsebseb> I thought I needed to install a terminal to run the guide :d
<dobey> afaik, no retail devices include a terminal app by default
<mcphail> sebsebseb: open source engine to run old point and click adventures
<sebsebseb> dobey: exactly so get one from the app store, then do the guide for purtine I was thinking :d
<Acou_Bass> scummvm is a game engine (or collection of) emulator that runs awesome old-timey point 'n click games
<Acou_Bass> its epic
<sebsebseb> how am I going to be able to run commands without a terminal :d ?
<dobey> well, not sure what you are trying to do exactly
<sebsebseb> dobey: I wanted to follow the guide for purtine so I could try out other programs
<sebsebseb> so I installed the terminal from the app store and my above issue
<Acou_Bass> dont you have the libertine scope/app?
<dobey> i don't know what guide you're talking about
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: oh maybe I don't know
<sebsebseb> dobey: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4/edit
<sebsebseb> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yJepibh68YaQijWO3Z3dWTtTTmzXnMmEE8eswhUXzw4
<dobey> Acou_Bass: you can't create new containers or install apps in the current container, on the shipped image, because stuff is installed in the read-only space, and there are symlinks to it
<Acou_Bass> oh, didnt know that
<Acou_Bass> im not using the tablet, im using the -pd builds on nexus 4
<Acou_Bass> so the container is in /home
<sebsebseb> yes with the tablet can use an unoffial guide to hack purtine
<dobey> sebsebseb: well, the only reason i'd think you might need a terminal is to delete the symlink and copy the one file over, but i think you can do that with the file manager app too (though also not installed by default) :)
<sebsebseb> so it can have other stuff
<dobey> Acou_Bass: right, because that doesn't ship with a pre-built container
<sebsebseb> dobey: well looks like need to run some commands for the guide
<Acou_Bass> dobey: makes sense :D i dont know much about the tablet so forgive my ignorance ;D
<Acou_Bass> so on tablet, the puritine container is in /opt or something?
<dobey> sebsebseb: well if terminal app is giving you issues at the moment, you could use phablet-shell over usb or ssh in if you've enabled ssh, as a workaround
<sebsebseb> dobey: well terminal app could be having problems, since I haven't done a ota update I was thining
<dobey> Acou_Bass: the retail image has it in /custom/ i think
<sebsebseb> and it seems it's been recently updated as  well teh termianl app
<Acou_Bass> ahh
<Acou_Bass> fun
<Acou_Bass> ;D
<dobey> sebsebseb: no idea. i don't have any issues with terminal app on either of my nexus phones
 * sebsebseb or I could wait a bit longer and install it in the what's coming way that was being chatted about here the other day, but want to try hack first really :d
<sebsebseb> dobey: it coulld break depeding on the version of touch installed?
<sebsebseb> it's not the latest version
<sebsebseb> when I tried it on bq and meizu phones in the past that worekd but  there have been updates
<dobey> sebsebseb: shouldn't. could be some issue with graphics on that device though perhaps
<sebsebseb> with graphics how so?
<sebsebseb> dobey: it is the tablet of the two with the apparantly not as good resolution or whatever it was tok, but uhmm
<sebsebseb> seems to have been ok for everything else I done with it so far
<dobey> sebsebseb: i mean terminal app has some funky graphics features for the funky themes. it could be something in terminal app triggering a rendering issue perhaps. but that's just speculation
<dobey> sebsebseb: like i said, i have no idea really. i don't have an m10 myself
<sebsebseb> oh ok
<Acou_Bass> terminal app has themes??
<Acou_Bass> been using this thing for like 2 months andnever once noticed :D
<sebsebseb> dobey: well I'll do the ota  update later on I guess, and then try the  termianl app again
<sebsebseb> dobey: however you made it sound like I may not need the terminal app actsaully to follow the earlier linked to guide anyway?
<dobey> Acou_Bass: yes
<dobey> sebsebseb: right, if you have developer mode enabled, you can shell in over usb, or if you also enabled ssh, you can ssh to the device over wifi
<Acou_Bass> hmm, doesnt seem to change it for me, wanted to try the coolr etro term theme ;( XD
<sebsebseb> dobey: nope no developer mode enabled I think at the moment
<sebsebseb> dobey: Acou_Bass going back to earlier berifly, what's better then :d or will be and why?  Ubuntu convergence or that Debian for Android thing I linked to?
<Acou_Bass> i reckon ubuntu by miles... purely because (unlss you run puritine apps) youre not having to faff around with weird crap like chroots and compatability layers
<Acou_Bass> just plug your phone into a TV and boom, desktop
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: sure, but I meant for running the Desktop Linux programs :D
<dobey> a real PC :)
<Acou_Bass> but ubuntu touch apps *are* desktop programs :p
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: you know what I ment old stuff xorg
<Acou_Bass> well eh
<Acou_Bass> i would still say ubuntu because its still a lot less layering than the android thing
<sebsebseb> what you mean layering?
<sebsebseb> takes less to do it?
<Acou_Bass> android is like... debian chroot -> chrooted xorg -> VNC -> android display server -> TV
<Acou_Bass> i dunno
<Acou_Bass> maybe for legacy applications, probably not much different
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: you also put earlier that Ubuntu touch will be Ubuntu eventually what so we should be able to  change to other things  that aren't Unity in the future then other de's etc? :d
<Acou_Bass> i didnt quite mean that (though i hvae no idea)
<Acou_Bass> i meant that desktop ubuntu will eventually be running exactly the same stuff as ubuntu phone
<Acou_Bass> so unity 8 mir 'core apps' etc
<sebsebseb> yeah :)
<Acou_Bass> the only difference will be arm vs. x86 and possibly whether its rootable easily? (and obviously physical size) :D
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: and yeah chroot's uhmm no thanks,  just want the stuff to work, teriminal stuff editing files etc, no thanks, just want the stuff to work,  like is the aim for convergence
<Acou_Bass> well presumably once unity 8 hits desktop, youll still need the libertine chroot to run legacy apps? unless they give us a way to do it by just apt-getting on the rootfs
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: I think there's going to be a graphcal way even
<sebsebseb> a package manager
<sebsebseb> etc
<sebsebseb> I had a chat here the other day
<Acou_Bass> (or, even better, if they convert all the .debs into .clicks with automagic xmir compatability in the click)
<Acou_Bass> XD
<Acou_Bass> there already is a GUI for libertine containers ;D thats how i do it on my nexus 4 hehe
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: that will be default in the next ota update I think or the one after
<Acou_Bass> i just dont know if libertine will be a thing on desktop, or whether itll just all be doable with clicks
<sebsebseb> I think the next two ota updates should provide inteesrng things going by my chat here the other day
<Acou_Bass> i think the most interesting developments will be coming in the next few ubuntu desktop releases
<Acou_Bass> now the LTS is out the way, they can start experimenting
<sebsebseb> yeah
<Acou_Bass> we already have clicks on desktop should you wish to try them... would like to see all the things converted to click packages and unity 8 become default (or at least a usable option without having to jump through PPA's)
<dobey> there is no ubuntu touch. there is only ubuntu
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: dobey why t he interest in Ubuntu touch persoanlly for you I wonder :) ?
<sebsebseb> dobey: well Ubuntu Touch is currently based on standard Ubuntu or something like that
<Acou_Bass> mostly because i was a hardcore nokia n900 user which was basically debian linux in a phone, and could run xorg apps with zero effort - and since losing that phone ive been pining for a real linux phone again
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: uhmm right but there's the Jolla phone
<dobey> sebsebseb: i mean, it is jsut ubuntu. it's just device-specific image builds of ubuntu, with a few things that aren't in the archive, and a tiny container to run some android bits on top of the android kernel. it is however for all intents and purposes, just "Ubuntu"
<Acou_Bass> which cant run xorg apps at all hehe
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: former Nokia people with yeah SalifshO
<dobey> they aren't "Ubuntu Touch Phones"; they are just "Ubuntu Phones"
<Acou_Bass> sailfishOS is even more proprietary than android is
<Acou_Bass> and, while it is a SERIOUSLY nice phone OS, i cant in good conscience use it for that reason (not to mention that while it is linux underneath, i cant do anything linuxey on it)
<Acou_Bass> whereas on ubuntut ouch i can use emacs, and libreoffice, and all those goodies
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: right, but can't you also use emacs etc,  on that Debian for Androdi thing  like that guy was basically trying to tell me earlier in another channel hmmn ?
<Acou_Bass> probably
<Acou_Bass> but then id have to use android
<Acou_Bass> which i, excuse my french, F'ing hate
<sebsebseb> yes the Ubuntu kernel in Ubuntu touch has soe Android stuff or that stuff right
<dobey> it's ok, android hates you too
<sebsebseb> plus there's someting propritary I belive to even get on moible networks
<Acou_Bass> good, i hope it does
<Acou_Bass> well yeah
<sebsebseb> the propritary thing may have come from Android to I don't know for networks
<dobey> android hates everyone
<sebsebseb> but that's side stuff
<sebsebseb> to what I am about to ask :)
<Acou_Bass> theres the android drivers/libhybris, and then the proprietary phone baseband blob that all phones have
<sebsebseb> other topics even not relivent for what I am about to ask Acou_Bass
<Acou_Bass> go on? :P
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: Why don't you like Android?
<dobey> what is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
<Acou_Bass> urgh where to start
<Acou_Bass> its bloated as hell, the apps are like 50mb apiece just for some basic crap, its a security hole waiting to happen, its rammed full of spyware
<dobey> android covertly ignored my privacy for one
<sebsebseb> oh, but loads of people love Android! I mean it's apparently so amazing!
<Acou_Bass> you need a Â£500 phone just to run android without lag, and even then it lags like hell after a few months of use
<dobey> sebsebseb: i guess you should use windows and android then, since they're so amazing
<sebsebseb> dobey: he h I being not serious don't you see :D
<dobey> and they both have like 85-90% market share
<sebsebseb> or just saying lilk the main stemae
<sebsebseb> etc
<Acou_Bass> not to mention even if you buy a Â£500 android phone, itll be dead after 6 months because the manufacturer is too lazy to push updates to it
<sebsebseb> I have never been keen on Android
<Acou_Bass> so you either have to manually flash cyannogenmod on it or stick with insecure rubbish
<sebsebseb> something I notced very soon when installin an app or two
<sebsebseb> was guess what?
<dobey> Acou_Bass: eh? my nexus 5 wasn't that expensive, and it ran android fine, and still works :)
<sebsebseb> may not be Android's fault as an OS, but since it's popularity sure
<sebsebseb> adverts uh!
<Acou_Bass> nexus's are a really great exception to a lot of my problems with android
<sebsebseb> yes Nexus is meant to be stock Android
<Acou_Bass> nexus 4's when they came out were absolute show-stoppers
<Acou_Bass> but still
<Acou_Bass> spyware-laden
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: spyware laden how?
<dobey> well, at least with lollipop i could make the phone respect my privacy
<Acou_Bass> because google basically have a direct line rammed into the back
<Acou_Bass> XD
<dobey> but with marshmallow it's impossible
<dasjoe> Spyware? You mean like Ubuntu's Amazon search? Here, take this: <Â°(((><
<dasjoe> :)
<Acou_Bass> not to mention all the apps dont work if you dont enable their horrendously invasive permissions
<sebsebseb> uh 6.0 I thought apaprnatly had better privacy settings or something?
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: yes I didn't like that, apps wanted access to like nearly everything, most of htem
<sebsebseb> them
<dobey> lol no
<Acou_Bass> dasjoe: sure, that thing was just as bad spyware, but that was a single click to disable :P
<dobey> 6.0 automatically uploaded all my contacts to google without my consent, as soon as i upgraded, and had no way to disable storing contacts on google
<sebsebseb> ok so we are using UBuntu touch, since for our own personal reasons we don't like Android?
<dobey> in 5, i could at least disable the contacts sync and store contacts locally
<Acou_Bass> no im using ubuntu touch because its awesome :P
<Acou_Bass> and, right now, is the best phone OS for my needs
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: and you hate Android or strongly dislike
<Acou_Bass> before ubuntu touch i ran firefoxOS
<sebsebseb> yeah I got a Firefox phone to
<sebsebseb> never did calls from it though or texts,
<dobey> i'm using ubuntu because it's ubuntu and not android or ios, and hp killed webos, and well, developing it is also my job
<sebsebseb> dobey: oh you help develop Ubuntu touch?
<Acou_Bass> sebsebseb: difficult to say... android in its consumer-buyable form, i HATE, but the more open forms like CM, i just merely dislike
<dobey> there is no ubuntu touch. there is sonly ubuntu. :)
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: the consumer versions tend to come with some junkware sure, and why do you dislike CM?
<sebsebseb> dobey: that's not qujite true yet  but I do see that in the future #ubuntu will be the like go to place for support with the phone and tablet to
<Acou_Bass> mostly because its still just the same bloated mess and, a lot of the time needs the same spyware to go with it to install apps on (eg. googz play)
<kurros> awesome https://code.launchpad.net/~andreas-pokorny/mir/fix-1580774
<dobey> it is true. this is mostly a development channel, not a support channel
<sebsebseb> dobey: for now yes
<Acou_Bass> is there a seperate support channel?
<sebsebseb> dobey: and #ubuntu is for the desktop versions that are still in support for now
<Acou_Bass> ive beenasking in here when i need hlep... XD
<sebsebseb> dobey: but start going on about touch lots there, and they will probably be liek go to #ubuntu-touch at the moment
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: bloaed as in what, spyware? bloated can mean diffenret htings
<Acou_Bass> as in
<Acou_Bass> not spyware... just heavy
<Acou_Bass> far too big in size
<Acou_Bass> apps are gigantic for what they do
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: apps come with adverstg and bad persmisoins to yeah
<sebsebseb> and it's hard to find th decent apps
<sebsebseb> since way too many in play really
<Acou_Bass> even the ones that dont
<Acou_Bass> theyre still massive
<dobey> sebsebseb: #ubuntu is for all ubuntu
<sebsebseb> in a way that's a sort of advantage for Ubuntu touch to some extent
<sebsebseb> dobey: the topic doens't say touch :d
<sebsebseb> there
<sebsebseb> can go through the app store in not much for touch and get what is wanted
<dobey> sebsebseb: like i said. there is no ubuntu touch. only ubuntu :)
<sebsebseb> but most of the native apps  stuck for now
<Acou_Bass> lets compare this
<Acou_Bass> https://openrepos.net/content/accumulator/quickddit-0
<Acou_Bass> reddit app for sailfishOS
<Acou_Bass> 240kb
<Acou_Bass> https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.mhall119.ureadit
<Acou_Bass> reddit app for ubuntu... 142kb
<sebsebseb> and the andoid one massive :D ?
<dobey> well 100kb is not a particularly comparible difference
<Acou_Bass> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.reddit.frontpage
<Acou_Bass> reddit appp for android
<sebsebseb> also uappexpolorer is the unoffial thing
<Acou_Bass> 6.6mb?
<Acou_Bass> XD
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: yeah which isn't that much, but if you put on a lot of apps that are big
<sebsebseb> that 16gb or so space
<sebsebseb> can go hyeah
<dobey> well, ureadit is a qml/js app. not a binary app
<sebsebseb> yeah
<Acou_Bass> thats just a small example
<sebsebseb> and you are more likely to install lots of android apsp on android since you got play
<dobey> reddit app on android is a compiled java app
<Acou_Bass> ive had numerous android apps that are 50-100mb
<dobey> text compresses much better than compiled binaries do
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: have you treid Remix OS that's nice :)
<dobey> sure
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: Remix OS is a edited Android for x86
<dobey> and there will be plenty of such apps on ubuntu too
<Acou_Bass> dobey: the technical reasons dont matter, fact is the android app is gigantic compared to utouch app hehe
<Acou_Bass> presumably far less though? XD because most of them will be the same QML stuff
<dobey> Acou_Bass: https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.docviewer -- 65 MB
<Acou_Bass> hehe
<Acou_Bass> point takne
<Acou_Bass> :P
<dobey> i expect anyone who wants to ship proprietary apps aren't going to ship them as qml
 * Acou_Bass looks at how big the android equivelent is
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: Ubuntu touch has taken some stuff fomr Android, what you think of that?
<Acou_Bass> stuff like what, the drivers/kernel?
<sebsebseb> yeah
<dobey> necessary evil
<Acou_Bass> im indifferent... XD doesnt really bother me either way
<Acou_Bass> drivers are drivers
<Acou_Bass> if they werent android, theyd stil be proprietary blobs
<sebsebseb> could have made own drivers :D ? he h
<sebsebseb> and own kernel  that's android enoguh like h eh h
<sebsebseb> ?
<Acou_Bass> obviously itd be better if they werent there... bt if they werent, we probably wouldnt have any ubuntu phones
<sebsebseb> instad of knicking things from android? h eh
<dobey> Acou_Bass: telegramapp is 4.7MB on ubuntu
<sebsebseb> I mean it's meant to be it's own seperate OS right :) h eh
<dobey> where does play store show app size?
<Acou_Bass> on that app i linked it was in the 'read more' but
<Acou_Bass> but weirdly a lot of apps dont show it
<dobey> sebsebseb: 'nicking things from android' is inaccurate
<sebsebseb> dobey: I am saying a bit jokingly, but yes knicking/borrowing
<dobey> sebsebseb: an extremely minor amount of binary bits which are required to make the hardware work
<sebsebseb> but yes it's mostly it's own OS completly, except for those few things I guess :D
<Acou_Bass> sailfishOS uses the same bits too
<Acou_Bass> but also has its own proprietary layer on top too (the GUI layer if i remember correctly)
<sebsebseb> actaully I don't know that much about that stuff,  the kernel is open source I guess sure :d
<sebsebseb> but the drivers are not?
<Acou_Bass> i guess depends on the drivers being used... i daresay some phones have some free drivers, but id imagine most have proprietary blobs
<sebsebseb> propribably blobs from the manufacture to work with Android?
<Acou_Bass> there is a version of android that is 100% free/open source (analogous to the fully-free distros) but it runs on VERY select hardware
<sebsebseb> yeah there's a FSF one
<Acou_Bass> yeah, the drivers and stuff
<sebsebseb> the hardware is only really
<sebsebseb> Apple or Android
<dobey> fairphone i guess
<sebsebseb> hardware that's made for Apple or Android I mean
<dobey> or maybe some intel devices
<dobey> or windows
<Acou_Bass> http://www.replicant.us/supported-devices.php
<sebsebseb> or Windows just about yeah
<sebsebseb> hardware made for WIndows just about
<sebsebseb> yep replicant that's the one
<sebsebseb> a bit like how the PC is made for Windows?  or is it really, that's it's own debate
<sebsebseb> but yes Linux and WIndows iwll run on same hardwRE
<Acou_Bass> its not really like that... phone hardware is far more locked-down generally
<Acou_Bass> for the most part, you can expect linux to run on any x86 PC
<dobey> linux runs on pretty much everything
<Acou_Bass> but you cant just plug a thumb drive into a galaxy S3 and expect ubuntu to boot
<dobey> but higher level than the kernel stuff starts to get picky :)
<sebsebseb> higher level
<sebsebseb> you mean more background?
<sebsebseb> more working with the hardwARE?
<dobey> i mean andorid is still linux, even if you don't get a bash shell or xorg
<sebsebseb> yep
<dobey> your refrigerator and stereo and all kinds of devices run linux
<dobey> even if you can't do anything with that linux
<sebsebseb> yes Linux is eveyrwhere
<sebsebseb> I know
<sebsebseb> even in someones toilet maybe
<dobey> certainly
<dobey> especially in san francisco or japan
<Acou_Bass> i definitely dont want Tux staring up at me when im on the john
<Acou_Bass> suppose if anything gonna, might as well be something FOSS
<dobey> would be nice to get rid of the android container/kernel if possible on some devices, and use the archive kernel. but freedreno doesn't support enough hardware i guess, and i doubt much of the other bits will work without the proprietary bits
<sebsebseb> dobey: what's freedreno ?
<dobey> an open source driver for adreno, the gpu in the snapdragon chips
<sebsebseb> ok
<Acou_Bass> i daresay therell one say be a fully-free build of ubuntu touch (trisquel touch) :D
<sebsebseb> dobey: Acou_Bass and why does Android have the kernel and drivers, since the manufactures released for it years ago ?
<Acou_Bass> no idea
<dobey> Acou_Bass: you can make one today if you want. it just won't run on much hardware :)
<Acou_Bass> hehe
<Acou_Bass> maybe theyll port it to the same phoned as replicant ;D
<dobey> sebsebseb: not sure what you mean. "android" doesn't "have" the kernel and drivers
<sebsebseb> dobey: the thng that is taken from Android to work with Ubuntu touch
<dobey> sebsebseb: android _is_ the kernel and drivers, as released by the manufacturer
<sebsebseb> dobey: why was that made for Android?
<sebsebseb> yeah drivers being for kernel
<sebsebseb> I know that :d
<sebsebseb> Google have a bit of an edited Linux to aparantl
<sebsebseb> y
<dobey> the drivers only work with the version of the kernel they were built to work with
<sebsebseb> yep that makes sense
<sebsebseb> so touch just uses the Androdi kernel, since  the drivers are made to work with that?
<dobey> the device tree which contains the kernel source, the binary drivers, etcâ¦ necessary to boot a device and run the hardware is "android"
<dobey> and each device has its own separate tree, and kernel config, etcâ¦
<sebsebseb> yeah still a bit of Android in there to get hardware working, but otherwise a completly seperaet OS Ubuntu touch :)
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: and yes I think SalifishOS again has some of the Anroid
<sebsebseb> as you put aerleir
<Acou_Bass> sailfish uses libhybris
<sebsebseb> oh?
<dobey> s/touch//g
<sebsebseb> dobey: what does that mean :D ?
<dobey> it means ubuntu is just ubuntu
<sebsebseb> thought you meant something lilke that, but I am not just saying Ubuntu
<sebsebseb> so currently anyway
<sebsebseb> there are enough differences between the desktop version and the phone tablet version
<sebsebseb> plus it's called otuch the channel :d
<sebsebseb> since currently above
<sebsebseb> dobey: Ubuntu Touch is a bit like the old Netbook Remix in that sense I guess but even more so as bieng differnet
<dobey> and there are differences between the cloud images, the server ISO, the snappy things, but they are all still just Ubuntu
<dobey> there are also differences between builds of ubuntu for different phone/tablet devices
<sebsebseb> yep
<sebsebseb> yep purtine :D
<Acou_Bass> dobey: can i ask a dumb question? what is the difference between 'snappy' and 'click'? is it purely a 'click' is the package, and 'snappy' is the OS it runs on top of?
<sebsebseb> I think click is the old thing
<sebsebseb> snappy is the new
<dobey> Acou_Bass: no. snap packages will replace click packages on phone too at some point
<sebsebseb> snappy to replace click
<Acou_Bass> so clicks came along, and then snappy came along to replace them?
<Acou_Bass> weird
<dobey> Acou_Bass: by snappy things i meant things running snap-based images from Ubuntu Core
<Acou_Bass> yeah
<sebsebseb> dobey: why was Ubuntu for phones and tablets based on 15.04 and not 15.10?
<sebsebseb> got a reason the other day
<sebsebseb> but didn't really understand
<sebsebseb> also really a otherwise end of life versoin of Ubuntu still runs on phones and tabelts basically h  eh
<dobey> because we switched from 14.10 to 15.04, and then didn't switch to 15.10, because there are a lot of hard problems to solve there, and we didn't want to compound them by switching to another interim release of ubuntu as the base
<dobey> phones/tablets are special, releases are not on the same schedule as the ISO image releases
<sebsebseb> dobey: yes I gathered that quite a long time ago that it doens't follow the ISO scheduled
<Stskeeps>  /g lbt
<sebsebseb> dobey: apparnatly somethin in 15.10  wouold have broken apps, made people have to re do them?
<dobey> sebsebseb: gcc5 broke binary compatibility in the STL, yes
<sebsebseb> dobey: what's the STL? what do you mean STL?
<dobey> c++ standard template library
<sebsebseb> dobey: ok I am not a progarmmer, what's that used for really?
<dobey> on ubuntu phone images? basically everything
<sebsebseb> tempaltes for what?
<sebsebseb> template usually means something that's already made as well
<sebsebseb> for use for chaning even a bit
<dobey> i'm not going to teach you c++ in here :)
<sebsebseb> dobey: h a ha I didn't mean like that
<sebsebseb> dobey: anyway yes  15.10  app breakage, and what other issues?  and since  only normally a shortly supported release,  it got skipped for the Ubuntu for phones and tablets updates?  yeah.
<sebsebseb> dobey: I guess the next big soonish update will be based on 16.04, and then might base one on 16.10 as well with good enough reason
<dobey> switching to 15.10 would have been a waste of time. images will be switched to 16.04 at some point
<dobey> no, there won't be any reason to base images on 16.10
<dobey> hopefully after the switch to 16.04 we'll stay on LTS releases only as basis for phone images
<sebsebseb> dobey: well that's what I put might, it's to 16.04 like for the rest of the stuff I guess yeah,  well for ubuntu for phones and tablets
<Acou_Bass> is there any reason they went to 15.04 at all, instead of just being LTS-based?
<sebsebseb> dobey: I was thinking that to, that may only stay on  LTS releses
<dobey> Acou_Bass: was already on 14.10
<Acou_Bass> ahh
<sebsebseb> dobey: Ubuntu for phones and tablets ( not calling it touch now h eh h ),  goes back even futher thought to 2013 or so doesn't it? what were those versions based on?
<dobey> would have been nice if we'd stayed on 14.04 though
<dobey> don't recall why exactly we did 14.10
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: dobey it's interesting stuff though :d
<dobey> 13.04, 13.10, 14.04, 14.10, and then 15.04, iirc
<sebsebseb> yeah sounds about right
<dobey> or maybe not 13.04; so long ago i don't recall
<sebsebseb> there wasn't  really a ubuntu for phones and tablets in 2012
<sebsebseb> I think
<Acou_Bass> i think it was around then that they did that nexus 7 port using the normal unity 7
<sebsebseb> can update LTS with ppa's or snaps or wahtever yeah
<dobey> no, wasn't unity7 i don't think
<Acou_Bass> there was an initial nexus 7 port that used unity 7... it wasnt very good and was more of a test i think :P
<dobey> so yeah, 13.04 was one, because late 2012
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: dobey  I wanted to play with Ubuntu touch before ever since seeing Jono's nexus on  his video stuff :d.  I didn't get a Nexus 4 my self sold out in 2012 hmm or whatever
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: dobey then I bought htat bq :) 4.5
<sebsebseb> and Meizu Pro 4 :d
<sebsebseb> and M10 HD
<Acou_Bass> xd
<Acou_Bass> im just using a nexus 4
<dobey> Acou_Bass: there were some nexus images of standard ubuntu ISO that could be installed iirc, but that was mostly separate and a test of "how do we boot ubuntu on these things?"
<sebsebseb> I'll get a FHD at some stage I think as well a Ubuntu
<Acou_Bass> but is my primary device aside from my desktop PC
<sebsebseb> I know will end up with mostly the same thing
<sebsebseb> on all those devices if keeping them up to to date
<Acou_Bass> dobey: yeah thats what im thinking of
<sebsebseb> 4.5 I thought I had lost found it early this year, so it's still on the old thing from over a year ago a 14.10 :d
<Acou_Bass> i run rc -pd builds on my nexus 4
<dobey> my laptop, workstation, server, and phone all run ubuntu
<Acou_Bass> is pretty great
<Acou_Bass> XD
<sebsebseb> may keep that one on that or for now,  can look back at a old version in the future then h eh
<sebsebseb> dobey: I moved away from DEsktop Ubuntu in 2009
<sebsebseb> other distros etc
<sebsebseb> wasn't happy with cerain things
<sebsebseb> ,but
<Acou_Bass> heh my nexus is my only ubuntu machine... arch on desktop, raspbian on the Pi (ive been meaning to try snappy on that, too lazy to migrate though) and guixSD on the laptop
<dobey> your loss :)
<sebsebseb> but I think this Ubuntu for phone and tablet stuff is quite interesting
<sebsebseb> dobey: Acou_Bass  I been runing on the desttop on this lap top for a bit longer tahn I had intended 15.04 then 15.10 but this one sint' quite set up how I wanted yet
<sebsebseb> need to re set up really
<Acou_Bass> im really looking forward to going back to ubuntu on the desktop when all these goodies come over to the desktop
<sebsebseb> I'll upgrade that install to 16.04 soon from 15.10
<Acou_Bass> but im really not a fan of .debs
<sebsebseb> got Windwos to re install on here and such really, but that's tedious
<Acou_Bass> they bork too much
<sebsebseb> going to re install all OS's on here, I just haven't yet
<sebsebseb> on this lap top
<dobey> stop installing broken debs :)
<Acou_Bass> but but
<sebsebseb> and  my net book works or ish still as well sort of
<Acou_Bass> i want my new softwarez ;(
<sebsebseb> dobey: I remember GNOME 2 getting messed up
<sebsebseb> in 2009 and such
<sebsebseb> then Unity came later
<sebsebseb> Unity got a lot of flak from the Linux community
<Acou_Bass> the whole reason i jumped ship from ubuntu on desktop was because i wanted up-to-date versions of music production stuff and PPA's were not working out well for me
<Acou_Bass> hopefully snaps will fix that :D
<dobey> Acou_Bass: ardour and such?
<Acou_Bass> yeah
<dobey> Acou_Bass: ppa:dobey/audiotools :)
<Acou_Bass> ardour, hydrogen, lilypond
<sebsebseb> Unity 7 also got old and boring in the destkop really for many of us :d  on the nromal cmoputer, but Unity 8 on the phone and tablet is interesting :).  when I upgrade to 16.04 this lap top of course I'll try Unity 8 like that to
<dobey> hmm, i need to get hydrogen and i guess lilypond in there though
<Acou_Bass> im fairly sure i tried that and it didnt work very well... or maybe it was the ubuntu studio PPA back when that was a thing
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: you jumped ship to what?
<Acou_Bass> arch
<sebsebseb> people can say what they want, but actsaully
<dobey> works well here ;)
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu is the only one that properly invoates now unless we include SalifishOS or something like that to :d
<sebsebseb> I mean Ubuntu Touch is an example of inovation
<dobey> but there isn't a terribly large amount of stuff in it yet
<Acou_Bass> yeah
<sebsebseb> targetting phones nad tablets, but that was also so Canonical couold make some money maybe
<Acou_Bass> i dont use THAT many things - mainly lilypond hehe
<sebsebseb> also I think to target the phone and tablet, need to be big enough moneywise
<sebsebseb> most distros simpally can't do it, to small
<dobey> problem is finding good open source plug-ins; so many are just abandoned and unmaintained, or just not good
<Acou_Bass> yeah this is true
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: wh8ich is true?
<Acou_Bass> i have a huge stack of .sf2's all over the place
<Acou_Bass> some of them are ancient, some of them are godawful
<sebsebseb> I have three of the six Ubuntu devices :d
<sebsebseb> missing a BQ HD and  Meizu Pro  5 he h
<dobey> yeah, and so many soundfonts just aren't redistributable
<sebsebseb> and a Nexus 4 maybe he h
<Acou_Bass> but my main thing is printing the sheet music, so soundfonts arent THAT important, because y'know paper doesnt have a built-in MIDI player :P
<sebsebseb> dobey: why do you not have a commerical Ubuntu device?
<Acou_Bass> most of my other stuff is live recorded or just done with basic FS midi stuff
<dobey> Acou_Bass: you could hook up a dot-matrix printer to print punch-card style, and route the paper through a player piano :P
<Acou_Bass> i say this like i even still do music stuff anymore, havent been a pro musician for nearly 10 years now
<sebsebseb> dobey: and your name reminds me of Harry Potter by the way :d
<Acou_Bass> XD
<Acou_Bass> dobby
<dobey> sebsebseb: because they're too big, too underpowered, and i'm in the US
<dobey> no.
<sebsebseb> there to big?
<sebsebseb> how so?
<Acou_Bass> :P
<dobey> yes
<dobey> my nexus 5 is too big even
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: well similar :d
<Acou_Bass> OH this reminds me
<sebsebseb> apparnatly the MX 4 was quite big and yeah yeah
<sebsebseb> ,but I bought one
<sebsebseb> and it's a good size
<Acou_Bass> i wanted to see if i could use my raspberry pi as a guitar amp... wonder if its powerful enough
<dobey> iphone 4s or 5s is perfect size
<sebsebseb> been using that as my phone for months now :)
<Acou_Bass> im gonna go out on a limb and say probably not, but ima test it anyway
<sebsebseb> apaprnatly the Pro 5 is a lot bigger though
<sebsebseb> the BQ 4.5 was a good size
<dobey> yeah pro 5 is like 5.7 or 6 inches or something ridiculous
<sebsebseb> dobey: yes you got differnet networks,  so can have issues
<dobey> 4.5 is too big, and underpowered, and low resolution
<sebsebseb> 4.5 fit in my pocket fine
<sebsebseb> I intend to buy a pro 5 eventually but there's no rush :d  may not use it as my actsual phone though much or at all really, depending on the actsual size yep :d
<dobey> i don't like having to take my phone out of my pocket to sit down
<Acou_Bass> nexus 4's are what... 4.7" screen? plus i have a big keyboard case stuck to the back of it
<sebsebseb> pro 5 is kind of expensive or over kill for Ubuntu really
<dobey> yeah, 4.7
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: where are you from?
<Acou_Bass> UK
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: ok same :) where abouts?
<Acou_Bass> the northwest hehe
<sebsebseb> ok south west
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: have you got an Ubuntu device?
<Acou_Bass> yepp my nexus 4
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: I meant a commerical one
<sebsebseb> I guess not then
<Acou_Bass> ahh no then
<sebsebseb> dobey: #ubuntu doesnt' mention 15.04 in it's topic as one of the supported ones, for the phone and tablet by the way :d
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: which Firefox phone did you have or got?
<sebsebseb> and I guess you have no Jolla
<dobey> sebsebseb: stop trying to think of the phone releases as being the same as the ISO release versions
<Acou_Bass> my fxos phone is a ZTE open C
<sebsebseb> dobey: I am not, but you did say earlier that #ubuntu is for all Ubuntu's :d
<Acou_Bass> and nope no jolla, i ran sailfish on both the ZTE and the nexus
<dobey> sebsebseb: it is for all Ubuntu
<sebsebseb> dobey: not according to the topic :d
<sebsebseb> of the channel
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: oh right nice you have ran Salifsh as well
<Acou_Bass> yeah
<Acou_Bass> its a REALLY nice OS
<dobey> sebsebseb: then the topic is wrong. #ubuntu is the general ubuntu support channel. any supported version of ubuntu is on topic. the phone builds are suported versions of ubuntu.
<dobey> sebsebseb: just ask the phone builds are supported versions of ubuntu as per the ask ubuntu topic rules.
<sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: yeah I haevn't upgraded to 2.0 yet not used my Jolla phone much actsually
<sebsebseb> dobey: well only really early adopters and devs use Ubuntu for phones and tablets now anyway,  so I guess it doens't matter to much the topic :d
<dobey> anyway, i should not be sitting here at my computer on such a nice day
<Acou_Bass> me neither, unfortunately my wheel is out of action so cant go out for a nice summer ride
<Guest73530> hi
<nhaines> I am annoyed that I can't build a libertine container.
<bregma> nhaines, on a device or on a desktop?
<nhaines> bregma: on a device.  Nexus 7 running rc-proposed/ubuntu-pd.
<nhaines> Failure installing matchbox during container creation http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/16449457/
<bregma> nhaines, do you get an error?
<nhaines> It worked on Monday, but it stopped working by Friday.
<bregma> mmm, x11-common is having trouble in its postinst script
<nhaines> So it seems.  :)
<nhaines> I was digging around trying to see if I could extract the Puritine demo container from a system image for frieza, but the answer is "no".
<embrik> Is it possible to ssh into ubuntu phone fro a windows laptop?
<bregma> embrik, yes, you have to enable developer mode and then configure the ssh server to run on the phone, after that it's just standard ssh
<embrik> bregma: OK - thanks - I've tried to enable developer mode on my laptop earlier but it didn't work - will try it once more
<nhaines> embrik: you need developer mode on the phone and an SSH client on the laptop.
<embrik> nhaines: OK - on the phone :-) I see
<bregma> embrik, you enable developer mode on your phone through System Settings > About > Developer Mode
<bregma> the you have to have your phone unlocked (using the passcode) to connect
<embrik> Not able to upgrade or install in command line - var/cache/apt - locked
<nhaines> The phone's system image is read-only.  You can never add software using apt.
<embrik> nhaines: Ok - I didn't know
<bregma> nhaines, looking ath the x11-common.postinst script, it does nothing unusual, are there maybe bad ownership or permissions in your $HOME (or in ~/.cache/libertine*) ?
<bregma> nhaines, if it was working before and isn't now, my guess is something got changed on your phone because it sure doesn't look like the software changed in the archives
<nhaines> bregma: I've flashed all daily images from the last 7 days and done random tests on earlier images.
<nhaines> It fails at the same point (although for the earlier images it sometimes fails on other random packages earlier on.)
<bregma> nhaines, did you wipe and reinstall (ie. delete user data) or just flash the system image
<bregma> ?
<nhaines> bregma: wipe and reinstall each time.
<bregma> nhaines, also, are you using the Terminal app to create the container or are you using a remote shell?
<nhaines> Ooh... I have been using the terminal app whereas originally I think I used a remote shell.
<nhaines> Let me try again with a remote shell.
<bregma> I understand there can be permission issues using the terminal app (check your syslog for apparmor messages)
<nhaines> Hmm, now the remote shell is just randomly timing out.
 * nhaines sighs.
<roma_> hi everybody
<bregma> hi roma_
<roma_> i'll like to get ubuntu touch on my galaxy s2
<roma_> is someone already did it?
<roma_> need help
<roma_> i rooted my phone
<roma_> try to follow the wiki of ubuntu but fastboot is not supported
<roma_> ow can i do it ? even with heimdall??
#ubuntu-touch 2017-05-08
<Walex> ah a couple of days ago I was able to install some apps from the Ubuntu Store after it had been dead for a while, it seems to be dead again. Any information?
#ubuntu-touch 2017-05-09
<sunnyzimm> hello everyone
<Walex> my news are that the app store occasionally works. When it does not seem to work it may be because it is very slow; because when it works it works quite slowly.
<Walex> I have done a donation to the openstore by PayPal. Hope it keeps existing and develops.
<PaulfraOSAA> Soo is this channel completely dead or are there anyone still clinging to the hope?
#ubuntu-touch 2017-05-11
<CoderEurope> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=malJUMz2A9Y Farewell to Meizu 10, then.
<anpok> CoderEurope: there is an afterlife.. join ubports.
<CoderEurope> anpok, For the flagship - products ? Maybe the FFone2, but they're floundering over at Ubports.com errata, they do the Next 5 aswell.
<CoderEurope> mhall119, Any word on a date when the security updates for the Aquaris 4.5/E5 are going to expire/finish from Canonical ? ubports.com doesn't know in the forums & I've asked askubuntu & they do know .
<CoderEurope> ****askubuntu Do*not* know.
<lotuspsychje> CoderEurope: june will end official updates
<CoderEurope> lotuspsychje, yeah, what date in june ?
<lotuspsychje> CoderEurope: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-phone-no-further-updates-truly-dead
<CoderEurope> lotuspsychje, so no security updates *after June* ?
<lotuspsychje> seems like it CoderEurope
<lotuspsychje> CoderEurope: unless there's a new deal/method with the ubports guys? who knows...
<CoderEurope> no
<lotuspsychje> no what
<CoderEurope> Uports aren't working on the Aquaris 4.5 or Aquaris E5.
<lotuspsychje> CoderEurope: i also got a 4.5..not sure what i will do next
<CoderEurope> lotuspsychje, I shall buy it off you ?
<lotuspsychje> if nothing supported..ill have to go back to bloody android
<aquarius_> jhodapp: I have an audio-on-the-phone question, if you have a minute at some point :) Specifically, an app I launch from a click app (which is unconfined) doesn't seem to be able to make sounds; the same app works fine when run from phablet-shell. Sounds apparmorish, maybe, but ... how do I find out? :)
<mhall119> aquarius_: I have some bad news for you about ubuntu phones...
<aquarius_> yes, yes, I know that bit. But it hasn't stopped working just because it's not supported. :)
<mhall119> what does the app use to send audio?
<mhall119> pulse, or somethign different?
<aquarius_> ah, that's a good point; it's using alsa but can use pulse. Let me try that
 * mhall119 bets apparmor only allows pulse
<aquarius_> hrm, hasn't helped :(
<mcphail> aquarius_: silly question, but have you asked for audio permission? If so, anything in the logs?
<aquarius_> my app is unconfined. I may still need permissions, but I don't see any apparmor denials in my app's log. I don't have a /var/log/syslog (which is another problem that I don't understand)
<aquarius_> I may try having upstart start my sub-app, though, and see if that gets blocked.
<CoderEurope> mhall119, Do you have any up & coming events coming up for us to attend on-line ? http://i.imgur.com/DNHCFza
<mcphail> aah didn't see the unconfined bit. You sure pulse hasn't crashed? that got me once
<aquarius_> yeah. app works fine when I run it manually :)
<mcphail> :)
<CoderEurope> mhall119,  yep so ?
<mhall119> CoderEurope: not sure I understand the question
<mhall119> do you mean like OUS-style events?
<CoderEurope> mhall119, anything
<mhall119> that was really the only on-line event we've had
<mhall119> unless you count the various things on Ubuntu On Air
<CoderEurope> this is why there's retention prob.s
#ubuntu-touch 2017-05-12
<smirnov_> is anyone here?
<lotuspsychje> !ask | smirnov_
<ubot5> smirnov_: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<smirnov_> !ask
<ubot5> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<smirnov_> !patience
<ubot5> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<Xeha> haha and left. typical web relay people...
<CoderEurope> Xeha, you on something ?
<Xeha> CoderEurope: you missed it. someone joined, asked to ask, ragequited. obviously used the web relay.
<CoderEurope> Xeha, yeah and ? How do that help us ?
<CoderEurope> **does that
<CoderEurope> gMorning toddy :) o/
<toddy> Hi CoderEurope
<Xeha> CoderEurope: then maybe, dont ask? smartass...
#ubuntu-touch 2017-05-13
<prout> I'm looking for pointers to get touchscreen to work on a surface book.
<lotuspsychje> prout: surface book you can install ubuntu-desktop, not ubuntu-touch
<prout> lotuspsychje: yes, I have ubuntu installed. But really missing touch. Are there any drivers/config/HOWTOs to make it work?
<lotuspsychje> prout: what kind of ubuntu version did you install?
<prout> Desktop 17.04
<lotuspsychje> prout: come to #ubuntu and ask about it
<prout> ok; thx
<CoderEurope> PaulW2U,  g-day !
<hwpplayer1> hi friends
