#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-31
<pitti> 22:00 CEST
<pitti> argh, ECHAN, sorry
<titus`> hello
<mdke> hi titus` 
<titus`> can I know what UTC time is it please ?
<thom> 18:09
<tseng|work> meeting is in ~2 hours
<mdke> tech meeting
<titus`> i'm waiting for the community council :)
<mdke> titus`, thats in 4 hours
<titus`> so 4 hours, thank you
<mdke> titus`, for future use: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
<titus`> ok, bookmarked
<zul> titus` or you could open a terminal and go date --utc
<titus`> better :)
<Seveas> please, someone, put date -u in the topic :)
<mdke> people asking won't read it
<mdke> but we can try ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdke] : Tue 24 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- review http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaintainerCandidates || Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel || Find out UTC time with the command "date --utc"
<Burgundavia> did anybody email -users and -devel about the meeting being moved back 2 hrs?
<dholbach> hm?
<dholbach> first one will be a TB catch up meeting
<Burgundavia> the CC meetin, was it not originally at 24h
<dholbach> no 22 utc
<Burgundavia> oh
<dholbach> i directly edited the calendar
<Burgundavia> that is odd
<Burgundavia> when?
<dholbach> after the last one :-)
<Burgundavia> oh, ok, as long as it was not today
<Burgundavia> my mind playing funny tricks
* dholbach hands Burgundavia a cup of tea
* Burgundavia has been up since UTC 14:00 yesterday
<dholbach> wow
<tseng|work> wow!
<ogra> wow ?
<mdke> just a regular day for you Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> yep
<opi> hi guys
<opi> it's +1 to the meeting? or is that +3?
<mdke> +1 to tech meeting
<mdke> +3 to CC
<mdke> /topic
<opi> oh, thanks mdke :)
<opi> mdke: yup I just rised my head from a pillow :)
<zul> hey JaneW
<JaneW> hi zul
<tseng|work> hi zul, jane
<zul> hey tseng|work 
<JaneW> hi tseng|work 
<\sh> good evening :)
<lamont> evening JaneW 
* JaneW waves at lamont
<JaneW> lo \sh
<dholbach> hellas mvo
<mvo> hey dholbach 
<dholbach> hey JaneW, lamont, zul, tseng|work, \sh :-)
* \sh waves to JaneW :)
<\sh> huhu dholbach :)
<JaneW> \sh btw are you South African? (originally)
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> JaneW: no :)
<ogra> lol
<JaneW> \sh, I asked because of the bilton thing
<ogra> JaneW, he'd love to
<JaneW> ;)
<JaneW> hey dholbach 
<\sh> JaneW: but my ex-wife comes from P.M.
<zul> heh...i lived in africa for 8 years
<JaneW> oic!
<\sh> JaneW: and when I was visiting ZA I became addicted to biltong :) and chili cheese burgers from coconut grove@durban beach front :)
<JaneW> \hehe
<lamont> Kamion: you around?
<JaneW> your name *could* be SA too
<Treenaks> JaneW: that's because of all the German and Dutch influence
<\sh> JaneW: yeah I know :) I saw also some german city names there :)
<\sh> JaneW: where u coming from?
<opi> OK, I'll spy on you gus because I have nothing better to do untill CC will start :-)
<JaneW> \sh you mean like Heidelberg!? *LOL*
<\sh> JaneW: right :)
<dholbach> haha... heidelberg :-)
<zul> hey jeff
<jbailey> Heya Chuck
<\sh> JaneW: btw...there is a guy from .fi he wants to get this biltong connection working too :)
<\sh> dholbach: it was funny to see this city name on a highway in ZA...
<doko> hi
<ivoks> hi all
<\sh> hey doko 
<dholbach> \sh: you thought you took the wrong crossing, hm? :-)
<JaneW> dholbach: don't laugh we actually have 2 towns called Heidelberg in SA!
<\sh> dholbach: hey...I was sitting in a car with 4 ZA indians on the way to joburg
<dholbach> JaneW: i dont :-)
<pitti> Moin
<tseng|work> meeting time.
<tseng|work> hi pitti!
* Treenaks hands tseng|work ntpdate
<mdz> 15 second by ntp.
<JaneW> \sh: yes biltong is a good SA export, of course you'd get locked up trying to take any to a place like australia ;)
<mdz> welcome, everyone
<mdz> let's begin
<\sh> dholbach: just in front of the city frontiers the locale police of joburg had a test of new recruiters...they were quite surprised, a paleface sitting with 4 indians in a car 
<mdz> Keybuk notified me that he may be ~10 minutes late
<mdz> so we'll need to wait for him in order to process maintainer candidates
<mdz> but if there is any other business, we can discuss it while we wait
<\sh> JaneW: it's not even allowed here in germany :( but when you enter germany via terminal 2 from heathrow u have luck and no customs is controlling (if you're european)
<Treenaks> mdz: Maintainer or MemberCandidates?
<\sh> ok
<mdz> Treenaks: both
<pitti> mdz: can we hot-add postgresql to the agenda?
<dholbach> Treenaks: members are in CC meeting
<mdz> pitti: sure, what's the issue?
<dholbach> ah ok
<fabbione> mdz: and TB meeting time rotation please
<pitti> mdz: the current breezy packages are still the "old" architecture, I'd like to put in the new architecture as in Debian experimental
<JaneW> maybe mention that the CC meeting follows at 22:00 UTC?
<Treenaks> dholbach: oh wait.. *wrong agenda*
<pitti> mdz: I won't support the current packages for Sarge+1 anyway, so Breezy would be the first distro with 8.0 and the multicluster architecture
<mdz> pitti: are you confident that the packages can be stabilized by featurefreeze?
<doko> pitti: hold on! let's finish one of the three things we started ...
<ogra> doko, why ? its more fun....
<pitti> mdz: yes, I hack a lot of them during my free time and they have almost all of the features of the current packages
<pitti> doko: ?
<mdz> pitti: are there upgrade issues to consider?
<pitti> mdz: there is a transition package to postgresql-7.4, and a pg_upgradecluster script to transition to 8.0
<pitti> mdz: a mere dist-upgrade will settle everything for you
<Treenaks> pitti: a working upgrade script?!
<doko> pitti: how many packages have to be changed? let's wait one or two weeks until xorg and C++ ABI are in a usable state
<mdz> pitti: so postgresql_7.4.5 will be superseded by postgresql_8.0?
<pitti> mdz: actually by postgresql-7.4
<pitti> mdz: -8.0 can be installed in parallel
<mdz> doko: the question is whether we will do it for breezy
<pitti> mdz: the biggest piece of work is the libpq3 -> libpq4 transition
<mdz> pitti: ok, so a dist-upgrade does not upgrade you to 8.0
<doko> ok
<ogra> doko, i thought main was done already
<pitti> mdz: no, the purpose of the new arch was to explicitly avoid database upgrades during package upgrades
<pitti> mdz: that only led to trouble
<ogra> doko, CXX that it...
<mdz> pitti: and you do not mind supporting both 7.4 and 8.0 in a stable release?
<pitti> mdz: since I will do it anyway for Sarge+1, and upstream is very nice, I don't mind
<mdz> pitti: ok, I have no problem then
<pitti> mdz: for bigger vendors like ISPs it is nice to be able to offer several versions and multiple clustes, so I'd like to keep 7.4 around
<pitti> mdz: it would require to minimally-change ~20 packages for libpq4
<fabbione> pitti: we need to talk about pgsql 8.0
<fabbione> but at a later stage
<astharot-> hi
<doko> pitti: please don't start now, but in June first 
<pitti> doko: that's fine for me
<pitti> mdz: the point is, the current packages are a PITA to maintain and a PITA for upgrading users
<doko> pitti: thanks
<mdz> ok, fabbione: meeting times?
<pitti> mdz: I don't want to support it longer than necessary
<fabbione> mdz: yes. we need to rotate the meeting time to get other people too
<fabbione> mdz: it was proposed and approved but never really took place
<pitti> doko: I'm not in a hurry, June will be more than fine
<JaneW> I second that
<mdz> fabbione: what do you suggest?
<fabbione> mdz: mako suggested something like 20:00 UTC and 10:00 UTC?
<fabbione> mdz: or something along that line
<ogra> sounds good
<JaneW> works for me
<fabbione> mdz: my original suggestion was different
<mdz> fabbione: it is necessary that I be awake during the meeting
<pitti> ogra: yeah, nice for Europe
<fabbione> but apparently nobody liked it
<ogra> yep
<mdz> 1000 UTC is 0300 for me
<\sh> yes...directly in my lunch pause :)
<fabbione> mdz: the point is whatever rotation we do, somebody needs to be awake
<fabbione> mdz: and uk didn't like the original proposal
<JaneW> how bad is 6:00UTC?
<doko> it would be nice not to have a 20:00 UTC meeting in end of June
<doko> JaneW, yes!
<pitti> Hi Keybuk 
<Burgundavia> 11pm our time, JaneW
<JaneW> are people in the states still up then?
<mdz> Keybuk: we briefly discussed postgresql 8.0, and are now talking about meeting scheduling
<mdz> Keybuk: (while waiting for you so that we can process maintainers)
<Burgundavia> JaneW, by our, I mean mdz and myself
<Keybuk> did you get my text?
<mdz> JaneW: I'm often awake then, but it means the meeting will have to be strictly time-limited so that I get to sleep at a reasonable hour
<mdz> Keybuk: yes
<JaneW> Burgundavia: ok, and the Canadians etc too of course
<\sh> siretat will join the meeting between 20:30 and 20:45 utc he has a schedule 
<mdz> Keybuk: you beat your estimate by 20 seconds
<Keybuk> what meeting times are we considering?
<Burgundavia> JaneW, that is terrible time for east coast people/brazial people
<Keybuk> given this current time already seems to be impossible for sabdfl to make
<JaneW> mdz: it;s 10:11pm now, and the CC meeting is 12am my time :P
<mdz> Keybuk: fabbione proposed 1000 UTC, but that's firmly in sleep territory for me
<fabbione> Keybuk: 06:00 UTC and 20:00 UTC
<fabbione> in rotation
<fabbione> so that we can alternate
<Keybuk> 6 utc is too early for me to function properly (or indeed, make, usually)
<mdz> JaneW: yes, but I have to be lucid for TB meetings :-)
<doko> what about 18:00 UTC?
<mdz> 1800 UTC is no problem for me
<fabbione> well clearly in rotation somebody needs to sacrify a bit
<JaneW> I could do 1800 UTC, but 1900 would be better
<doko> is this ok for jbailey, or earlier? we did start with 16:00 UTC
<fabbione> but that would give other continets the possibility to partecipate as well
<mdz> basically 1700-0500 can be made to work for me
<jbailey> doko: Yup.
<Keybuk> fabbione: the problem with the TB meeting is that we've such as small Q, for even one of us to be unable to make it or insufficiently lucid, defaults the point
<Keybuk> unlike the CC members, who are ten a penny :p
<JaneW> ok, how many Australians are there?
<pitti> mdz: well, 0500 is still almost night, but doable
<jbailey> doko: Pretty much any night time that is good for Europe is going to be good for north america, and any morning that's good for mdz will be good for those of us east of him. =)
<fabbione> Keybuk: well that's an issue that can be addressed expanding the TB
<Seveas> Now here's an idea: let everybody write down his/her doable time and send it to JaneW, she can pick a time that's reasonable for all
<ogra> JaneW, none
<fabbione> Keybuk: as it is now we are cutting away a good portion of the community
<JaneW> Seveas: good idea
<fabbione> and i don't find it sensible at all
<JaneW> howeveer I will have to make some 'executive decisions' I am sure ;)
<mdz> Keybuk: huh?
<pitti> we also have to consider people from e. g. Asia
<mdz> last I checked the CC and TB had a similar number of members
<Keybuk> I thought CC had 5 ?
<opi> Seveas: I suggest same thing to Mako about CC ;)
<JaneW> does sabdfl need/want to be at these meetings?
<JaneW> if yes, what times is HE available?
<pitti> JaneW: he has a vote, he should be
<opi> JaneW: he's on CC from time to time
<Seveas> sabdfl wants to be on CC generally afaik
<mdz> Keybuk: 4
<mdz> Keybuk: The Community Council is constituted as follows: Benjamin Hill, Mark Shuttleworth, Colin Watson, and James Troup
<Keybuk> yeah, just read that :)  Somehow I thought lamont was on that too
<Keybuk> so ignore me :p
<mdz> JaneW: sabdfl and Keybuk are in the same time zone
<mdz> physically anyway
<JaneW> yes, which is similar to mine
<lamont> Keybuk: I show up and give my opinion from time to time... but am on neither board
<dholbach> i think we should pick some times that fit for the most, make the time frame a BIT bigger, so it will hurt a BIT, and then start rotating
<mdz> I can give a 12-hour window, 1700-0500 UTC for the start of a meeting
<JaneW> can we try 6:00 and 20:00 and see how that goes?
<Keybuk> for me, 1000-2359UTC
<\sh> i don't mind the times....when I know when the meeting starts i'm there...even during work hours or dream hours
* Kamion arrives
<Keybuk> or I may mean 0900-2300UTC, I'm not sure which way the math works :p
<Kamion> (sorry for lateness, etc.)
<JaneW> thanks \sh :)
<mdz> JaneW: we can try 0600 next tiime, yes
<dholbach> \sh: same for me
<pitti> works for Europe
<fabbione> yeps
<JaneW> mdz if it's poorly attended or doesn;t work for you etc, we can strap the idea?
<mdz> JaneW: for me, anyway
<mdz> JaneW: I think it's worse for Keybuk
<mdz> and sabdfl
<Keybuk> yeah, I almost certainly won't make a 0600UTC meeting
<Keybuk> not entirely sure Mark will eitehr
<fabbione> but that would be like once every second week
* Kamion definitely can't make 0600, and we tried UK evil-time for the CC and it failed miserably
<JaneW> it's 7am then isn;t it?
<ogra> yeps
<pitti> JaneW: yes, and 8 in summer
<dholbach> and if we rotated the time ever two weeks?
<JaneW> so, what;s the problem?
<Kamion> pitti: for the UK it's 6am in winter and 7am in summer
<mdz> there is more than one problem
<Keybuk> JaneW: 7am UK in summer, 6am in winter
<seb128> pitti: there is one hour difference between you and uk
<mdz> sabdfl often can't make these meetings, regardless of the timing
* JaneW generally starts work at 7:30 am, 8:00 on a bad day :P
<mdz> Keybuk and I are 8 hours apart, so we're fairly restricted there already
<Kamion> I start after we've got the kid to school, which is 9am
<opi> JaneW: me too, but I have to get to the office so it's another ~0.5h
<JaneW> Kamion: that's why 15:00 - 18:00 UTC is not ideal for me (kids)
* Nafallo likes Seveas idea more and more ;-)
<pitti> I think the idea with the disc-shaped Earth a few centuries back was not at all that bad...
<mdz> if we don't have sabdfl, then we need to accomodate both Keybuk and myself with regard to times
<JaneW> ok mdz, it;s obvious you just have to move ;)
<opi> pitti: unless you're not a sailor ;)
<Kamion> of course, as far as the TB goes, quoracy is more important, so it doesn't matter *too* much if (say) I can't make every meeting, but somebody should ask sabdfl
<opi> pitti: s/not//
<mdz> JaneW: then people will just complain that we're scheduling against the US
<ogra> pitti, oh, that changed ?
<mdz> and excluding that bit of the community
<mdz> if you guys want to try the next meeting without me, that's fine
<mdz> but if only one member of the board can attend, not much will get done
<Keybuk> we tried that last week ;)
<JaneW> er no, we tried that last week...
<mdz> right
<JaneW> that's why we are back now ;)
<pitti> mdz: can we do the idea of the "every CC member states his available times and we take the intersection"?
<ogra> pitti, its TB here
<doko> pitti: empty set ;-)
* Seveas repeats his idea in a different form: let all TB members and community enthousiasts write their time on some wiki page and a decision can be made later
<mdz> pitti: that's how we got the current time
<JaneW> speaking of which, now that Kamion is here should we go back to point 1, since this argument will probably never be concluded...
<mdz> pitti: the complaint is that while the board members can attend, many community members can't
* Kamion can't find a point 1 in scrollback, so I hope we can recap
<fabbione> somehow there are 2 problems
<mdz> JaneW: eh?
<pitti> mdz: right, I know, but without board membery community folks can't be approved anyway
<fabbione> 1) time rotation
<dholbach> i think most guys will "prepare" themselves, if they know a date and time (whenever it is)
<fabbione> 2) TB is too small to cover 24hour community
<fabbione> both of them needs to be addressed imho
<Nafallo> fabbione: ++
<JaneW> er were we waiting on kamion for a maintainer candidate?
<pitti> idea: every meeting is 6 hours later than the previous one
<JaneW> maybe I missed something
<Kamion> JaneW: I'm not a TB member; I don't get a vote there
<mdz> a larger TB is not a good solution to a scheduling problem
<fabbione> pitti: that was what mako and I proposed for the CC
<mdz> JaneW: we were waiting on Keybuk
<pitti> then all folks should be able to attend at least 2/4 in a month
<fabbione> pitti: it didn't work
<\sh> question i have: do we need a TB meeting every 2nd week?
<pitti> fabbione: ok :-(
<ogra> JaneW, for maintainer candidates we're waiting for siretart
<mdz> \sh: yes
<dholbach> \sh: yes, i think so
<Kamion> I think it's far more important that general community members be able to attend CC meetings than TB meetings
<Keybuk> I think both mdz and I ignored the last attempt at rotation in the hope it'd go away :p
<Seveas> \sh, see the calendar
<mdz> pitti: there are only 2 per month
<fabbione> pitti: mainly because nobody can deal with 1 bad wake up over 4 :(
<fabbione> 4 meetings...
<fabbione> (2 months)
<\sh> mdz: ok for really technical stuff ok..but what about the community tb stuff? this should go every 4 weeks, and when the wanna be TB members wants to be in, they have only one appointment 
<Kamion> \sh: by the time people are coming up for maintainership approval, their contributions ought to be obvious even in absentia
<dholbach> fabbione has  a point - i think it's not that bad
<mdz> \sh: technical stuff -> TB, community stuff -> CC
<Kamion> \sh: if they aren't, they shouldn't be approved yet (he says making a wild generalisation)
<\sh> mdz: I was thinking about upload possibility for members
<mdz> Kamion: for discussion, it's useful for the persons involved in a project/idea to be present
<mdz> Kamion: sometimes a proxy works, but often not
<siretart> re
<\sh> mdz: CC is something else
<ogra> mdz, i think \sh meant MOTU approvals
<siretart> hi folks, just arrived :)
<\sh> ogra: right
<ogra> siretart, heya
<mdz> \sh: that means waiting a full month just to get an answer for a candidate, and that is too long
<\sh> mdz: but then we can come to a conclusion for the times :) 
<mdz> \sh: I don't see how it helps
<mdz> we have exactly the same scheduling problem, only less frequently
<\sh> mdz: if there is only one meeting once a month for approval and that is, lets say, 6am UTC, so the people are there, because this is the only date for it..
<JaneW> hi siretart
<dholbach> what about fabbione's point? who can't cope with one "bad wake up" in 4 meetings? this, to me, seems to be the only solution to this
<Kamion> \sh: if you can make totally arbitrary times, you're a lucky man. Not everyone can.
<siretart> hi JaneW, hello ogra 
<mdz> dholbach: I don't see how that solves the problem
<mdz> dholbach: 4 meetings = 2 months
<lamont> mdz: it shares the pain
<fabbione> mdz: as lamont said
<dholbach> yes, if we rotated times properly
<JaneW> and allows various timezones/continents to get involved, even if they only join in once every 2 months
<Keybuk> dholbach: clearly some people can't cope with one "bad wake up" for the sole time they need TB for something ... otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion
<fabbione> mdz: basically of 4 meetings you get 2 of them during working hours, 1 a bit late in the eveining and only one as bad wake up
<mdz> consider that you're applying for maintainership
<lamont> mdz: and basically means that you can count on being totally useless for one day every 2 months. :)
<\sh> Kamion: well, when I have a schedule I can try to attend, if not, I can't 
<surak> lamont: that's almost a booze - only missing beer
<JaneW> lamont: aren't you usually? *duck*
<lamont> JaneW: nearly always, dear. :-)
<Kamion> \sh: even if people know in advance that really doesn't guarantee that other real life commitments that are more important than a volunteer project won't step in
<mdz> the problem more or less goes away if we can get quorum all the time
<lamont> Kamion++
<mdz> I'll talk to sabdfl about what we can do about that
<JaneW> ok.
<mdz> Kamion: yeah, having one window every 2 months means that it's very inconvenient if you miss it
<mdz> we've spent too much time on it; let's take this discussion to the ubuntu-devel list
<mdz> especially since the point is that not everyone can be present at the meeting ;-)
<JaneW> heh
<mdz> on to maintainer candidates
<mdz> do we actually need to look at MaintainerCandidates, or only the folks who are on the agenda proper?
<mdz> MC is huge
<ogra> just take the agenda
<Keybuk> Kamion wanted us to look at MC itself
<Keybuk> unless I misinterpreted?
<Nafallo> ogra: ++
<Kamion> erm
<Kamion> I wanted people not to be left out in the cold for a full month
<mdz> Saravanan Raju, here?
<ogra> could we first do the ppl on the agenda, i know some have to leave
<Kamion> up to you how you prioritise it :)
<mdz> John Levin, here?
<mdz> Martin Krafft, here?
<mdz> Darren Critchley, here?
<mdz> David Walker, here?
<ogra> mdz, most of them arent even members yet
<mdz> Marco Bonetti, here?
<mdz> Luke Yelavich, here?
<mdz> Diego Andrs Asenjo, here?
<mdz> moquist: here?
<mdz> Amaya Rodrigo, here?
<ogra> moquist isnt a maintainer ??
<mdz> Monty Taylor, here?
<astharot-> Gerardo Di Giacomo here
<mdz> David Mandelberg, here?
<mdz> astharot-: I am processing the list in order, please wait a moment
<mdz> Brian Sutherland, here?
<astharot-> sorry :P
<fabbione> doh.. Amaya did apply as maintainer? :)
<mdz> JorgeOCastro, here?
<mdz> Imre Kaloz, here?
<jbailey> fabbione: Before I did, IIRC. =)
<dholbach> fabbione: ages ago
<mdz> MatthewParslow, here?
<ogra> fabbione, i think only as member, there was no distinction at this time
<mdz> fabbione: yes, though I don't think she has ever attended a meeting to be considered officially
<mdz> MarioCarrion, here?
<mdz> GoedsonPaixao, here?
<dholbach> i will make another section on the Maintainer Candidates page and move all of those that need to show up again
<mdz> BjrnOveGrtan, here?
<mdz> Javier Carranza, here?
<mdz> dholbach: thanks
<mdz> Zac Brown, here?
<mdz> George Farris, here?
<mdz> Arnaud Vandyck, here?
<mdz>  Stephen Shirley, here?
<tseng|work> could they just speak up if they are here and on the list?
<mdz> tseng|work: not all at once
<Kamion> tseng|work: we're nearly at the end anyway
<mdz> FrodeDoeving, here?
<mdz>  Gabriel Puliatti, here?
<mdz> \sh: you're here
<\sh> Stephan Hermann is here
<mdz> that's not a very good hit rate
* siretart is shocked
<pitti> it's an extra meeting and it wasn't announced on the wiki page
<\sh> siretat is also on the list (agenda)
<mdz> dholbach, ogra: can either of you speak on behalf of \sh?
<JaneW> actually it was on the wikipage
* ogra proposes to process tseng|work now, i know he urgently has to go
<mdz> \sh: we'll continue with the agenda in order
<\sh> mdz: ah ok 
<ogra> to late :(
<JaneW> and 2 e-mails were sent to the Ubuntu-devel list 
<JaneW> granted the second was like 10 mins before the meeting started
<mdke> i was surprised by the meeting, the wiki page says 31st
* JaneW checks again
<JohnDong> hi, everyone :)
<mdz> JohnDong: the tech board meeting is in progress
<JohnDong> sorry
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: \sh?
<ogra> mdz, ok, \sh has done a handfull of packages on the review pages, the quality is ok and he has done a good amount for the CXX transition, i'd like to see him as a MOTU
<dholbach> mdz: i can vouch for him as well
<Keybuk> \sh++
<mdz> agreed
<ogra> yay
<dholbach> \sh: welcome in the MOTU world :-))
<ogra> \sh, welcome in MOTU :)
<mdz> \sh: do you know how to proceed?
<\sh> mdz: yeah
<JaneW> to confirm the meeting was in the calendar, but the agenda date was not updated (sorry)
<mdz> ok, great
<\sh> thx to everyone :) 
<mdz> \sh: congratulations
<JaneW> welcome \sh
* pitti congratulates \sh
* siretart congrats \sh :)
<\sh> it's really an honour to work with u all :) a great community and a great team :)
<mdke> nice one
<mdz> Jeff Buchbinder here?
<Nafallo> \sh: congrats :-)
<mdz> JeanRemyFalleri here?
<jdodson> JonDodson here.  fwiw.
<mdz> ok, that's it for MaintainerCandidates
<doko> who is ivoks?
* siretart raises his hand - huhu?
<ivoks> me
<\sh> siretat is on the list :) 
<mdz> jdodson: I don't see you on the agenda or the candidates list
<ogra> lol
<ogra> ivoks, you name ?
<mdke> jdodson, wrong meeting i think
<ogra> your even
<ivoks> Ante Karamatic
<dholbach> jdodson: you're on the community council list, right?
<pitti> mdz: astharot should be MaintainerCandidate
<doko> ogra: he's not on the list?
<mdz> gah, the page was rearranged while I was reading it :-)
<\sh> hehe :)
<ogra> doko, who ?
<dholbach> mdz: excusez-moi
<mdz> so siretart and astharot remain
<seb128> dholbach: nice :)
<mdz> (followed by those on the agenda)
<jdodson> mdz, dholbach: no.  just here:)
<siretart> ah. :) 
<mdz> ogra,dholbach: can you speak for siretart?
<ogra> he s 50% of the games team
<dholbach> siretart did a lot of work for 3 months in the MOTU world now
<ogra> and did a goood bunch of work for us already
<dholbach> he worked with us in the hoary-release roundup and i'm VERY happy with him
<mdz> can you vouch for the quality of his work, such that he should be able to upload packages without review?
<ogra> me to
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> absolutely
<mdz> ok, that's sufficient for me to approve for universe upload status
<mdz> Keybuk: siretart?
<Keybuk> yup, good for me
<ogra> yay, welcome, siretart 
<siretart> thank you all!
<dholbach> siretart: it's great to have you with us... finally :-)
<mdz> siretart: congratulations
<ogra> siretart, you got the lead of the MOTUGames team now ;)
<siretart> YEAH! :)
<mdz> astharot is next
<astharot> here !
* pitti wants him
<dholbach> pitti's right hand :-)
<\sh> siretart: congrats :) 
<mdz> pitti: you have worked with him probably the most
<astharot> eheh
<pitti> mdz: I vouch for him, he does an awesome job
<Nafallo> Simira: congrats :-)
* ogra agrees with pitti, based on pittis expertise
<Keybuk> that's plenty good enough for me, then
<pitti> mdz: he does universe security updates at an awesome pace
<Nafallo> oops
<Seveas> astharot, just needs to remember to *attach* patches :)
<astharot> eheh it's true! :)
<mdz> astharot: have you been working with the MOTU team as well as pitti?
<pitti> Seveas: indeed :-), but me as well
<astharot> mdz: I worked with pitti mainly
<mdz> astharot: you should definitely join #ubuntu-motu, etc. if you are not already there
<mdz> it will be important to work closely with that team
<astharot> mdz: I do
<astharot> ok, I didn't know
<mdz> astharot: ogra and dholbach can guide you
<ogra> astharot, and probably take part in the MOTUSecurity team (if not lead it)
* dholbach welcomes astharot gladly
* ogra too
<mdz> ok, approved
<mdz> astharot: congratulations
<astharot> thanks :)
<dholbach> WOW :-)
<pitti> As long as we keep the policy that another member of the (uiniverse) security team approves patches, he should be able to upload
* ogra applauds astharot 
<mdke> complimenti :)
<pitti> astharot: congrats! I'm so glad to see you in :-)
<astharot> eheh I'm glad too
<astharot> thank you!
* \sh ^5s astharot
* siretart applaudes as astharot 
<mdz> pitti: yes, we'll handle -security/universe differently from universe in the development branches
<Nafallo> astharot: congrats :-)
<mdz> next agenda item is to consider dholbach for upload to main
<mdz> Keybuk: ?
<ogra> *REMINDER* all approved MOTUS, please put yourself on the MOTU page in the wiki *REMINDER*
<pitti> mdz: oh, astharot mainly fixes stable releases, for the development release we can mostly sync from Debian (I track that)
<dholbach> ogra: i was just about to do it
<Keybuk> I think he might be good enough to go without the training wheels now ;)
<ogra> dholbach, let the guys do some work too ;) delegating is magic ;)
<dholbach> haha... training wheels :-)
<seb128> arf, daniel is going to break GNOME :)
* dholbach hugs seb128 :-)
<pitti> seb128: even worse than you do? *duck*
<ogra> seb128, we're sure you'll fix it afterwards ;)
<seb128> somebody to blame for new gtk bogs :)
<doko> seb128: is there anything he didn't break? ;-)
<ogra> hehe
<mdz> if seb128 won't have a heart attack, I'm happy for dholbach to upload to main ;-)
<seb128> pitti: right, that's a challenge :)
<pitti> seb128: SCNR, you're great, you know that :-)
<seb128> ah ah
<pitti> mdz++
* fabbione thumns up for dholbach 
* ogra hugs dholbach and seb128 
<fabbione> meh
<fabbione> thumbs
<mdz> so, approved
<dholbach> merci beaucoup
<fabbione> well you get it
<mdz> dholbach: congratulations
<Keybuk> dholbach: congrats, someone'll get you a red cap and a speedo ;)
<mdke> dholbach, :)
<seb128> dholbach: welcome dude :)
* siretart applaudes to dholbach - great job! :)
<ogra> Keybuk, with propeller ?
<mdz> everyone else on the agenda was already processed
<seb128> dholbach: don't break everything as a welcome :p
<dholbach> Keybuk: you're too kind :-)
<mdz> except tseng who had to leave unfortunately
<Nafallo> dholbach: :-D congratulations!
<\sh> dholbach: congrats
<mdz> I'll send him an email about rescheduling
<ogra> mdz, which is very sad, since it holds up the move of mono to main
<Keybuk> mdz: we could process him in absence?
<ogra> Keybuk+++
<mdz> Keybuk: hmm, I don't see why not
<mdz> does anyone have anything to say?
<Keybuk> certainly I've been relying on his packages for a while now, and he's impressed me, so I'd have no worries doing that
* X-Men- make his congratulations to astharot
<thom> thumbs up from me to tseng -> main
<ogra> mdz, i worked on the mono packages a lot, they are a real mess if they come from debian.... tseng did such an awesome job, that upstream wants to work with him
<ogra> (upstream == novell)
* pitti notes that he approved mono for main inclusion
<mdz> excellent
<mdz> I think tseng would do fine in main
<ogra> so an absolute thimbs up from me
<JaneW> cool, so all on the agenda are approved?
<ogra> JaneW, yeah
<mdz> JaneW: so it would seem
<JaneW> I'll send out a note in summary
<JaneW> to the devel list?
<mdz> tseng: congratulations in abstentia
<mdz> JaneW: include it with the meeting summary?
<mdz> I suppose it's worth a separate announcement
<Keybuk> someone should probably mail Brandon personally to inform him :p
<ogra> Keybuk, i'll do
<mdz> any other business?
<ogra> Keybuk, but he'll be here again in about 30min anyway
<Keybuk> while we've got time, do we want to broach the idea of adding another member to the TB (I guess all we could do is recommend to Mark) ?  or are we happy as it is?
<doko> yes, please let's announce "major" changes for the archives before packages are uploaded ...
<opi> mdz: it's not quite related to the TC, but I have a question about MOTU-ML
<JaneW> mdz: ok I'll include in the summary, AND it can be a separte announcement as well. Anyone want to do the separte one, or shall I?
<ogra> opi, there is none yet
<opi> mdz: will all MOTU subsection (MOTU-Games) have separated ML
<ogra> opi, and we are not enough motus yet to have a MOTU ml
<opi> ogra: I know, I'm watchin http://lists.ubuntu.com on daily bassis
<mdz> Keybuk: right, "Appointments to the board are made by Mark Shuttleworth subject to confirmation by a vote amongst the maintainers."
<dholbach> opi: the consensus, unfortunately, is there will be no motu mailing lists yet
<opi> OK, noted
<ogra> opi, if we are more then 50 we can probably think about it
<mdz> Keybuk: so let's take that elsewhere, since he's not here
<doko> we need to have a bit more organization on on major changes in the archives, although more than one change in parallel is probably not avoidable
<mdz> doko: are you referring to xorg vs. g++-4.0?
<opi> I need to get membership, and then I'll find someone who will help me improve my package-foo, that would be 50-1 :)
<ogra> doko, have a proposal ? 
<doko> mdz: yes, and dpkg
<dholbach> opi: join #ubuntu-motu - we'll help you get there :-)
<opi> dholbach: after I'll attend CC :)
<doko> the proposal is simple: announce, what you plan, avoid doing things in parallel
<Kamion> FWIW I don't think we could have done either xorg or g++-4.0 significantly later; they were both "early breakage" items, and both took (are taking) a significant amount of time
<seb128> what the issue with // changeS?
<seb128> changes even
<seb128> the sooner the better for such changes
<seb128> and that doesn't make a big difference
<Keybuk> this basically comes to "have a spec before major changes" ?
<ogra> which we already have ....
<doko> Keybuk: it may be informal, but people should know about it. Looking at all our specs, they are not very detailed
<mdz> doko: what were the problems which were caused by it?
<mdz> we fully intended to break major things at the same time during this cycle
<mdz> perhaps there are other ways to address the problems, rather than breaking only one thing at a time
<doko> mdz: the ABI transtionplan was to avoid a freeze, so we decided to finish the libs first
<mdz> we have a limited amount of time available to break things before we must start stabilization
<doko> mdz: I don't deny it, but there has to be time to announce things
<Seveas> ahh, so that's why dholbach is approved for main: fast breakage
<Seveas> :)
<ogra> yeah
<mdz> doko: what do you propose?
<dholbach> do i have a THAT bad reputation already?
<Keybuk> dholbach: second only to seb128 :p
<seb128> :)
<Keybuk> so at least you're in good company
<doko> mdz: please scroll back: announce major changes, before you upload
<ogra> doko, isnt it to late anyway ? we are in the middle of the transition now....
<mdz> doko: how far in advance?
<mdz> ogra: yes, but we can discuss what to do in the future
<ogra> ok
<doko> major changes are planned for a longer time, so one 3 or 4 work days should be fine.
<JaneW> mdz: I just became aware of the HoaryRelease schedule page on the main wiki today, we can make a similar one for Breezy addressing many of these questions and dates.
<doko> leaving room for coordination between us
<mdz> JaneW: I created one just before the meeting ;-)
<lamont> there are advantages to breaking only one thing at a time... as it sits, most of the failures are obviously one of the 3 reasons, but some of them are less obvious'
<mdz> lamont: but we can't do 3 2-week transitions serially; we lose too much time
<mdz> I see no problem with requiring advance notice
<mdz> so that at least everyone is aware that there could be multiple reasons for the breakage
<Keybuk> yeah, an advance e-mail to u-d would at least give people a heads-up that apt might not be their friend this week
<lamont> mdz: true.  the fact that most of the failures are obvious which camp they belong to just means that we are "working in a target rich environment"
<dholbach> Keybuk: and it will be easier for MOTU to set up transition lists
<mdz> I would prefer to fix a number of days rather than deal in "working days"
<ogra> dholbach, i thought we go to RT, then it'll be easy anyway
<JaneW> mdz: you are good!
<mdz> so something like 4 days advance notice
<doko> mdz: we do have a nice section in our spec template "packages affected", this section should be detailed in the announcement
<mdz> JaneW: I have a time travel device
<dholbach> ogra: that's one of the point i missed quite often: a new upload of a library and the MOTU have to figure out themselves what's to fix
<doko> mdz: yes, that looks fine
<ogra> dholbach, ah, yes, thats true
<mdz> unfortunately, I don't think we have a place to document such conventions
<mdz> do we/
<mdz> ?
<dholbach> ogra: like X, like ogg/flac stuff, like ...
<ogra> yep
<doko> mdz: I'll write a wiki page
<mdz> doko: ok, I think we have an index of maintainer documentation somewhere
<mdz> doko: so maybe link to a HandlingTransitions or such
<mdz> there is certainly more that we can say about transitions there as well
<doko> ok
<mdz> any other business before we close?  we're over time
<ogra> yeah, please no more transitions with wiki lists....the editing takes me more time then the package fix
<mdz> ok, meeting adjourned
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<ivoks> clap clap 
<fabbione> danke
<dholbach> thanks mdz
<mdke> ogra, maybe you can consider access controlling the pages?
<mdz> and welcome to all the new maintainers!
<dholbach> ogra: wiki lists are better than NO lists
<ogra> mdz, oh, do i need approval for mono to main ?
* fabbione orphans the kernel
<fabbione> :)
* ivoks congrats everyone
<surak> tkz
<lamont> dholbach: flat file lists work too, and have less editing pain
<ogra> dholbach, sure, but its a real PITA
<mdz> ogra: if pitti already reviewed it, then no
<ogra> great
<ogra> :-D
<mdke> ogra, something like, maintainers can edit the pages, normal users not?
<ogra> mdke, its not that someone edits it....
<mdke> oh i c
<mdke> gotcha
<ogra> mdke, its the length of the lists and the lack of searching in test input boxes in ff
<ogra> text even
<sladen> 3
<ogra> sladen, ?
<sladen> ogra: typo
<ogra> sladen, hi then :)
<zul> fabbione: fine with me :)
<fabbione> zul: ?
<fabbione> ah the kernel..
<fabbione> ehhe
<opi> well, it's almost the time :-)
<opi> oh, 0.5h 
<Seveas> CC is in 30 minutes :)
* mdke offers tea round
<kassetra> whew!  When I first logged in, I thought I was late!
<dholbach> mdke: merci beaucoup
* Seveas offers cookies
<mdke> oooh cookies
<mdke> hi kassetra 
<ivoks> i have strawberies... anyone? :)
<kassetra> Hi!  :)
* opi is going to get caffee
<opi> ivoks: can you fax some? ;)
<dholbach> ivoks: hmmmmmm :-)
<mdke> ivoks, nice one
<opi> ivoks: I'll pick up them tom. at office ;)
<HiddenWolf> opi, that'd be called coffee :P
<kassetra> opi: that tends to cause a fax jam.  ;)
<mdke> *grins*
<anto9us> *groan*
<mdke> painful but strangely amusing
<Seveas> rofl kassetra 
<opi> HiddenWolf: I don't know why I'm allways messing around this word
<opi> HiddenWolf: maybe I just like it *too* much? :)
<opi> or, I lack of it when I'm mentioning it
<ivoks> :)
<HiddenWolf> opi, probably, you french? 
<opi> HiddenWolf: Poland
<HiddenWolf> opi, ah, ok
<opi> HiddenWolf: we call it ,,kawa''
<opi> HiddenWolf: where's w sounds like f
<ivoks> opi: lol
<ivoks> opi: we call it kava
<ivoks> :)
<opi> :)
<HiddenWolf> opi, no suprize there :)
<opi> ivoks: well, you're balkan, no? :)
<ivoks> but we say w as v
<ivoks> some say as f
<opi> can't we just call it tasteful-brown-wather? :)
<ivoks> opi: balkan is difficult term, but yes :)
<Seveas> tasteful brown water would be hot choco :)
<ivoks> opi: polska?
<surak> seveas++
<opi> ivoks: yup ;)
<opi> Seveas: that would be a sticky-tasteful-brown-wather
<surak> when I was a child, I used to say coffe is the dirt water from hell - it kept me awake for days!
<ivoks> opi: so, today we fight for member status? :)
<opi> surak: you where right at this :p
<opi> ivoks: it's not like a fight ;)
<opi> ivoks: you have some chances when you fight
<Seveas> lol
<ivoks> :)
<kassetra> heh.
<opi> ivoks: we're going to be reviewed by Council Of Evilness :)
<ivoks> opi: well, that's fight
<ivoks> you have to stand up for your self
<ivoks> :)
<surak> CE: give us some coffe, and we will worship you :-)
<Seveas> who of you is pllying for membership (/me is)
* opi too
<Seveas> s/pllying/applying/
<tjl2> not me - just observing...
* ivoks is thinking... there is time to do one more cxx transition :)
<opi> then, MOTU
<opi> and the World Domination
<Seveas> lol
<ivoks> opi: that would be Universe domination
<dieman> i might apply next month
<ivoks> :)
<Simira> the meeting's in 20 mins, right?
* Seveas goes for motu after *paid* packaging experiments at work :)
<kassetra> I think I have already been made a member, but as I couldn't make the last meeting, I came to this one.
<Seveas> Simira, yes
<dieman> depends on if i get involved enough in the next month or so
<opi> well, the last point will be easy, as I'm a member of Dogbert's New Rulling Class
<dieman> so far im just submitting bugs and doing a lot of stuff locally
<dieman> 45 installed ubuntu machines at work so far.
<opi> dieman: just hang around and you'll know would you like to share title with fsc^H^H^Hpeople like us. :)
<dieman> just need to reinstall 260 debian machines. ugh.
<opi> dieman: I can not compete there, not more than 10 ;)
<opi> dieman: you can try to move them to the Hoary
<Seveas> dieman, i need to do ~35
<Seveas> but they want red hat on them
<JohnDong> opi: not good idea
<Seveas> i'm gonna push ubuntu until they either snap or fire me :)
<JohnDong> I've tried
<opi> JohnDong: unless it's an oldie
<opi> JohnDong: the SID should move without much problems :-)
<JohnDong> Woody to Warty was pretty awful
<JohnDong> and Sid to Hoary DEFINITELY won't work
<dieman> opi: i've got about 14 warty machines im going to be upgrading to hoary
<dieman> opi: been doing them 'by hand' to ensure X works.
<JohnDong> Sid is much newer than Hoary
<JohnDong> that's why I can still get backports from Sid ;)
<JohnDong> minus the GCC 4
<Seveas> yeah, glibc hell :)
<opi> JohnDong: right, I've been reading about such move before Hoary was frozen
<Seveas> even sarge->hoary is hard
<jbailey> Seveas: Hmm?
<\sh> dieman: which debian u r running on the servers?
<JohnDong> BEFORE hoary was frozen
<JohnDong> now Hoary IS frozen
<JohnDong> lol
<dieman> \sh: servers aren't debian for the most part, they are solaris.
<Seveas> jbailey, when trying to move from sid to hoary you encounter some glibc 'problems'
<dieman> \sh: these are mostly desktops and cluster machines.
<kassetra> I do have to say that upgrading from Warty to Hoary was painful, but not nearly as painful as any other upgrade I've ever done.
<jbailey> Seveas: Eh, really?  Sid to hoary ought to be fine.
<dieman> \sh: the 260 debian boxes are woody + lots of local crap and backports
<jbailey> Oh wait.
<dieman> \sh: and local kernels, and etc.
<Seveas> sid has a newer glibc..
<dieman> \sh: its very painful.
<jbailey> Seveas: Right, but I think it downgrades safely.
<Kamion> downgrades are generally painful
<jbailey> You can't move from the experimental glibc to Hoary.
<dieman> heh
<Seveas> jbailey, i would be surprised :)
<opi> whatever you do, redoing 260 will be painful whatever you do
<dholbach>  b a c k p o r t s *SHUDDER*
<opi> s/what...//
<dieman> opi: i've got help :)
<Kamion> you can do woody->warty->hoary (tediously), and you'll be able to do sarge->breezy
<Seveas> opi++
<jbailey> You can move from experimental glibc to sid glibc to hoary, I think, though.  I didn't include the downgrade magic in Hoary.
<dieman> opi: plus 109 of them are in labs, i can do those in about a day
<dieman> opi: using fai. :)
<kassetra> backports are good!  :)
<\sh> dieman: ah...yeah i can imagine...quite the same situation we had at lycos with out debian servers
<mdke> i'm with dholbach 
<dieman> kassetra: heh, they are good when someone is managing a backport and has time.
* ajmitch successfully did sid->breezy before the g++ & X move :)
<kassetra> and that's jdong for me, at least.  :)
<dieman> kassetra: its bad when you start piling them up locally and have to deal with security updates :)
<dholbach> kassetra: most of the people, i helped to upgrade, who had severely fucked up systems, used backports which broke their upgrade paths :-/
<dieman> \sh: heh
<dieman> \sh: i've got a few headless machines running ubuntu anyhow.
<opi> dholbach: you should see my old Debian box
<dieman> \sh: this colo box runs sarge, tho.
<opi> dholbach: backports are at least in .deb form
<mdke> also its important that people realise that backports will inevitably not be as stable as the tested ubuntu packages
<kassetra> well, on my system, all of the backports upgraded flawlessly, it was xserver->xorg and nvidia upgrades that botched it.
<opi> dholbach: while my box was partly-this-partly-that-partly-from-sources
<dholbach> opi: .deb can be EVERYTHING
<dieman> dholbach: like some of the experimental xf86 4.3 woody backports :)
<kassetra> the only backports I use are the ones that jdong builds, actually...
<Kamion> which are about 50 times harder to get right than the average backport to start with. :)
<\sh> dieman: u have cfengine running, too?
<Kamion> (xorg and nvidia that is)
<dieman> \sh: yeah
<dholbach> OUCH
<opi> dholbach: sure, but at least you have some tools to deal with it :-)
<dieman> \sh: i've actually promised to put some cfengine examples on the web
<\sh> dieman: thats much nicer in a DC env
<dieman> \sh: i need to do that soon.
<Seveas> tools can't beat bad packager
<Seveas> s
<opi> dholbach: it died before Sarge get in, so I'm not crying :P
<dholbach> people should try get involved in the development cycle and do some GOOD work in something that is to be released
<dieman> \sh: i've essentially got a unified cfengine config i've used from the old progeny stuff, to woody, to ubuntu hoary and warty
<opi> dholbach: actually, it died year ago.. man, there's still no Sarge ;}
<dieman> \sh: the ability for cfengine to class things based on shell scripts is nice
<dholbach> and backports for a half-a-year...
<dieman> \sh: lsb_release -c -s is my friend :)
<mako> greetings everyone
<kassetra> hello!  :)
<opi> mako-san
<dieman> i should go get on the bus so i can join the metting from there.
<dieman> meeting, rather
<mako> my network is *flakey*
<Seveas> you have 13 minutes dieman :)
<\sh> hey maki
<Seveas> greetings mako
<\sh> mako even :)
<dieman> mako: thats what .edu networks are for! :)
<opi> mako: if you'll split, we'll badmouth about Ubuntu-CC ;)
<mako> well, i'm connecting from one .edu to the other and they have both developed the jitters in the last hour
<mako> in any case
<dieman> mako: heh, nice.
<dieman> brb
<\sh> dieman: for us it was quite difficult..we managed 3 different archs and 5 diff. unixes 
<mako> alright.. the agenda has exploaded overnight.. always a good sign
<mdke> hiya mako
<mako> mdke: greetings :)
<opi> \sh: you should think about some intagration
<\sh> opi: I did....i'm not working for lycos anymore ,)
<opi> \sh: ha ha
<Kamion> mako: is it just me or does the agenda have stuff from four weeks ago?
<opi> \sh: sounds like a solution to my problems at work :-)
<mako> Kamion: umm.. i think i cleaned it up
<mdke>  Rock the Casbah.
<Kamion> the LoCo stuff?
<mako> Kamion: we defered teh loco team mailing stuff from 2 weeks ago
<\sh> opi: hehe...well but right now the situation is not better 
<mako> and the first candidates we considered last time and put off
<mako> the rest haven't been looked at in a meeting yet
<mako> Kamion: yes, the first loco item is review
<mako> smurfix: you around?
<smurfix> yes
<mako> killer
<smurfix> *yawn*  ;-)
<opi> smurfix: get a mug of tasteful-brown-wather
<\sh> ah mr. uisdn ;)
<JaneW> mako: get out of the park, I hear connectivity is generally better in doors :P
* robitaille wonders if coke counts as a "tasteful-brown-wather" drink...
<Seveas> robitaille, only if it's neither decaf nor light :)
<smurfix> \sh: I actually hope to outlive everybody who still remembers that stuff
<mako> JaneW: it has been pretty nasty and cold since last thursday
<mako> :(
<\sh> smurfix: no way ;)
<mako> no park hacking for me lately :(
<opi> robitaille: it counts as derusting liquid :-)
<mako> that's gonna be me all summer though.. 
<mdke> nice
<opi> mako: go to the park with a laptop at my city
<opi> mako: there's no WiFi there
<Seveas> haha
<ogra> woah, joeys blog is heavy today....
<opi> mako: plus, you'll get robed ;)
<mako> now that i have a laptop with a screen that take the sun, being inside on a nice day is hard to justify
<mdke> here you get your laptop full of water
<JaneW> mako: making me jealous, winter has set in here, 12 degs (celcius) here atm
<opi> mdke: yup, rains all over the europe
<Seveas> here in amsterdam they have wifi in bars :)
<\sh> JaneW: joburg or capetown?
<JaneW> \sh: cape town
<opi> Seveas: bah, I have a bar at my office :->
<mako> JaneW: with a winter at 12d, don't expect too much sympathy :)
<mako> JaneW: try -12 :P
<JaneW> mako: true ;)
<opi> Seveas: ok, a fridge with beer, but that's almost like it ;)
<opi> before we begin
<Seveas> :)
<Simira> opi: no rain in Norway to day. Nice and sunny.
<opi> my boss posted a lousy joke toay
<opi> what's boss fav. cake?
<opi> work harder
<Simira> hi Nafallo. Congrats with what?
<mako> i count two minutes
<opi> it make no sesn in Polish, too
<opi> so we posted something after that
<Nafallo> Simira: typo for siretart ;-)
<opi> http://kierzko.com/dowcip/
<\sh> JaneW: snow on the mountains?
<opi> scroll to the bottom ;)
<Nafallo> Simira: and hi *hugs* :-)
<dieman> back...
<dieman> damn freenode needs ident.
<Seveas> opi, which one of those are you?
<JaneW> \sh: not yet, but soon, it will drop to belwo 10 degs then
<Nafallo> dieman: it's not a must :-)
<siretart> Nafallo: thanks :)
<dave_> date --utc
<mako> alright, we'll officially start in a couple minutes
<Nafallo> siretart: *s* :-)
<\sh> JaneW: but then you have the nicest season coming: the whales ;)
<mako> sabdfl will not be joining us today
<dieman> Nafallo: ahh, i guess only some of them do.
<xuzo> hi
<dave_> hello
<mako> dave_: greetings
* robertj lurks
* craigaa waves hello to everyone
<mako> which means you guys are stuck with the likes of myself, kamion and elmo :)
<mako> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<JaneW> \sh: yes and wine and fires and chocolate can be quite fun ;)
<Seveas> ah well, could be worse :)
<Nafallo> dieman: AFAIK they only asks you if you have it, witch takes an awful time if you drop the packets ;-).
* JaneW shuts up
<mako> aganeda is up there and you have about -1 minutes to add something :)
<\sh> JaneW: oh yeah..stellenbosch ;)
<dieman> Nafallo: i had at least 2 servers drop me without it.
<Simira> chocolate!
<Nafallo> dieman: yay, I've been lucky then ;-)
<ogra> Simira, i thought tea
<mako> alright, lets get this party started
<mako> no wait
<dieman> oh well.
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-06-01
<mako> let's get this ORGANIZED MEETING started
<Simira> ogra: a great combination. Let's start
* mako puts away his beer
<mdke> *grins* @ mako
<JaneW> heh
<smurfix> mako: There's a difference?
<mako> (that was lie)
* wdh opens his beer :)
* Seveas gets a new grolsch
* opi gets mug
<mako> agenda is online here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<mako> lets start at the top
<mako> if people want to say their names for the record summary, do that now
<dholbach> Seveas: grolsch!
<craigaa> craigaa : Craig Adams
* Seveas is DennisKaarsemaker
<ogra> Simira, oh, you are not a member yet ?
<opi> opi: Emil Oppeln-Bronikowski
<xuzo> xuzo: Luis Lopez
<titus`> titus`, == david larlet
<zenrox> zenrox: michael martin
<wdh> wdh: Wouter den Haan
<mako> the CC is myself (Benjamin Mako Hill), Kamion and Elmo
<ivoks> ivoks: Ante Karamatic
* kassetra is Kassetra ... :)
* Burgundavia is CoreyBurger
* uniq is FrodeDoeving
* smurfix is Matthias Urlichs
* ogra is OliverGrawert
* \sh is StephanHermann
<Unfrgiven> Ankur Kotwal
* dieman is Scott Dier
* Mithrandir is Tollef Fog Heen
* dholbach is Daniel Holbach
* Riddell is Jonathan Riddell
<mdke> whoa
<Simira> ogra: I'm working on it ;)
<opi> hi Riddell :-)
<mdke> mdke = Matthew East
* Simira is KarianneGrnningster
<jsgotangco> 6am
<jsgotangco> yahh
<luker> luker: Ignacio Gil
<jsgotangco> hi
* Nafallo is Christian Bjlevik
<dholbach> jsgotangco is Jerome Gotangco :-)
<dave_> dave_ = Dave Engbers
* topyli is Juha Siltala
* pitti is Martin Pitt
<kassetra> jdodson is JonDodson
<robitaille> \me is Daniel Robitaille
<jsgotangco> hello
<kassetra> JohnDong is John Dong
<opi> damn, I've lost with all you guys :-)
<mako> alright.. lets move on then :)
<dave_> opi, history buffers ARE your friend :-;
<mako> smurfix: want to introduce the loco team candidates?
<mako> alright, for context
<smurfix> actually they can (should) introduce themselves ;-)
<mako> loco team leaders do not need to approval by the cc technically
<mako> but we like to ask people to show up once to sort of connect with teh community
<dave_> Maybe Craig can kick off?
* jbailey is Jeff Bailey (sorry for the lag)
<mako> craigaa: the south african team.. sabdfl just got back from south africa
<Simira> they are not re-titled as community-contacts? Or is that just by suggestion yet?
<craigaa> wilco...
<smurfix> sort of show-and-tell. Also we have a few other loco items on the agenda where feedback from new members would be useful.
<craigaa> I'm from Durban ZA
<xuzo> I'm Luis Lopez from Spanish LoCoTeam
<mako> craigaa: why don't you tell us about your loco team so far, the state of ubuntu in safrica in a sentance and your plans for the future
<Kamion> it would be nice for loco people to say a bit about what they're doing in their communities
<Kamion> ... what mako said
<mako> and anything we can do to help you out
<craigaa> Mark, asked me a while back to form a LoCo, after chatting with several people, it seemed that someone had to start and lead it
<smurfix> Simira: I've retitled the llist, but getting that to correspond with reality is a bit more difficult
<mako> have you guys organized events, etc yet?
<craigaa> so here I am
<mako> got any plans for ubuntu in safrica?
<JaneW> craigaa: are you dealing with Durban only or the whole of SA?
<craigaa> Interest is relatively high, and I ams till working on active members
<mako> you've got a bit to live up to :) the distro with the an SA name :)
<craigaa> lol
<mako> JaneW: are you guys involved yet?
<craigaa> I have about 8 people interested at the moment...
<JaneW> mako: no, but I think we *should* be!
<mako> craigaa: there is a growing number of canonical people in SA
<mako> you guys should really coordinate :)
<craigaa> but they are waiting for someone (me) to get the ball rolling - lack of initiative ;-)
<mako> craigaa, meet JaneW 
<Simira> craigaa: how do you recruit/plan to recruit members?
<JaneW> hi craigaa ;)
<craigaa> mako: yes I touched sides with a few at LinuxWorld SA
<craigaa> new members: by direct personal contact at first...
<mako> craigaa: maybe you can plan for a good presence at the next LW-SA :)
<craigaa> largely through my OOoZA lists
<mako> cool :) let us know if there's anythign we can do to help :)
<JaneW> mako: Cape Town in Sept
<craigaa> mako: I'll be wearing my 2 hats ;-)
<mako> craigaa: there's a good goal :)
<mako> craigaa: you should see my hatstand :)
<JaneW> There's also a July conference in Stellenbosch
<craigaa> I may make LW CTN - depending on if they want me to speak again
<mako> nice.. ubuntu conference precense is something we want to see more of and it's going to be largely up to the loco teams to help make that happen
<mako> :)
<mako> alright.. you guys seem to have a number of options here
<mdke> mako, ++
<JaneW> July 4-7: World Conference on Computers in Education & International  Conference on Open and Online Learning at Stellenbosch university...
<craigaa> JaneW: I missed the earlier q, the whole of ZA at this point
<mako> canonical will help where we can
<mako> but we're pretty limited in terms of people on the ground everywhere :)
<mako> is david larlet here?
<titus`> yes
<craigaa> mako: always useful to have a helping hand 8-)
<JaneW> craigaa: can you mail me at janew@ubuntu.com, so I can pass people on to you
<\sh> durban is a good start I think :) the last time I saw many internet cafes and linux around the city center of durban
<mako> titus`: whats the state of ubuntu in france?
<craigaa> JaneW: wilco
<JaneW> for now, I will try to get involved when I start kowing what I am talking about..
<mako> JaneW: ah, knowing what you're doing is overrated :)
<JaneW> mako: heh, good
<mako> "if there's one thing i know, it's ignorance"
<jbailey> JaneW: Most of us got involved in this crazy Free Softare world by volunteering for something and then staying up all night trying to figure out how to do it. =)
<mako> smurfix: have you worked with craigaa ?
<mako> titus`: around?
<titus`> we have created ubuntu-fr.org
<JaneW> well right now it;s not so much 'vliss' as an extreme sport for me...
<titus`> sorry for the lag
<mdke> there is a very active French wiki community
<JaneW> s/vliss/bliss
<mako> titus`: some time ago, yes?
<mako> it looks great :)
<titus`> with traductions, forum and wiki
<mdke> i don't know if they coordinate with titus` 
<Mithrandir> JaneW: that's good.  extreme sports are fun.
<mdke> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrenchDocumentation
<titus`> yes there are about 80 people on the development mailing-list of the site
<smurfix> mako: Yubuntu-za is one of the vhosts I've set up for teams
<smurfix> s/Y//
* mako adds that to his list of ubuntu mispellings
<mako> titus`: wow!
<opi> titus`: 80?
<titus`> this is not the same team on the wiki and on the site
<opi> titus`: well, then I have lots to catch-up on you, guys!
<mako> titus`: ubuntu-fr will be able to play an important role in bringin ubuntu not just to france but to many francophone people
<mdke> titus`, ah i see, so there are 2 teams?
<titus`> yes 2 teams
<mdke> 2 wikis?
<titus`> and 2 wikis
<mdke> gotcha
<mako> titus`: why are there two teams?
<titus`> the one in ubuntulinux and the second on wiki.ubuntu-fr.org
<titus`> the second one is a development wiki 
<opi> you should merge :-)
<mdke> the other french team have been coordinating a bit via the ubuntu-doc list
<titus`> to write article before publication on the site
<mdke> they are working very hard on the main wiki :D
<mako> titus`: is there a reason you guys aren't coordinating?
<mako> would it be useful if you did?
<mako> (are eiter NatxoMorell / LuisLopez here?)
<xuzo> mako: I'm here
<xuzo> LuisLopez
<mako> xuzo: cool..
<mako> titus`: ?
<titus`> in fact, there are two team because there are people who love wiki and others (at start)
<mako> smurfix: did you know about the two teams?
<titus`> but now we are probably going to merge team
<mako> titus`: great! :)
<titus`> s
<mdke> thats cool
<titus`> do you have any "official" contact with the other team ?
<mdke> i felt the wiki guys would appreciate being able to use the ubuntu-fr@lists.ubuntu.com list to coordinate
<mako> titus`: there's no reason to fracture the community any more than it is.. every merge comunity like this is a little victory
<smurfix> Nope; I've been singularly non-involved with the French and Spanish teams -- they've been there before the loco idea was born, or so it seems
* smurfix agrees with mako
<mako> titus`, xuzo: you guys are sort of interesting
<mdke> titus`, i can put you in touch with them if you like
<titus`> mako, ok so it will be done
<mako> in that you had built great communities that were really locos well before we even had a word for it
<titus`> ok mdke 
<mako> so you guys can show a lot of leadership to the other loco teams because you have a head start
<jsgotangco> even ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com has french support btw
<mako> and we'll do anything we can to help you
<mako> titus`, xuzo: how are you guys doing for hosting?
<mdke> jsgotangco, yeah i think it would be cool if they can work in ubuntu-fr tho, it would help them unite their forces
<mako> do you guys needs help for hosting/bandwidth, etc?
<mako> that's something we can help you out with
<titus`> we're hosted by the apinc (apinc.org)
<mdke> titus`, will send you their names in query
<titus`> non commercial hebergement
<xuzo> mako: atm we are sopported by our local university
<mako> we can get you virtual servers if need be at linode or host wikis and such through smurfix 
<mako> xuzo, titus`: well, if that changes and you need some support from us, we're happy to support you
<mako> xuzo: you can get in contact with me or smurfix
<jsgotangco> how goes the linode plans btw?
<titus`> ok mako, the only problem today is the transfert of the domain name
<mako> jsgotangco: we need locos to take advantage of them :)
<kierzko> opi na czlona
<mako> jsgotangco: we'll see what problems we hit then
<kierzko> hi [;
<mako> titus`: what is the problem?
<mako> xuzo: how far outside of the university has the -es stuff gone?
<mako> xuzo: you guys have a great site too.. did even in december!
<mako> it was one of the ones that suprised us :)
<mako> xuzo: is there anything we can do to help you out?
<xuzo> mako: actually the web site covers all spanish countries
<titus`> i've sent two mail but smurfix know the problem
<mako> is there anything you guys are planning
<mako> xuzo: nice :)
<xuzo> included south america, about 3000 users now
<mako> smurfix: you guys going to work it out
<mako> xuzo: wow!
<smurfix> I've forwarded the transfer application to silbs
<mako> xuzo: we should really find ways to work more closely
<smurfix> it needs to get signed and stamped and stuff :-/
<titus`> we are planning to traduce the add-on cd and to locate it
<xuzo> mako: aditionally we have setup a mirror in spain
<mako> titus`: great :)
<mako> xuzo: nice
<titus`> so maybe we need some ftp place
<xuzo> in two days we have a "ubuntu install party" http://iubuntu.ubuntu-es.org/ (sorry about spam :P)
<titus`> s/place/space
<thung> yello
<mako> xuzo: i heard there was some problems getting people to organize an ubuntu talk or something in spain a few months ago.. we should work on getting the -es community into line where we can organize events and such :)
<mdke> titus`, do you guys work on the ubuntu-fr@ubuntu list, or on your own list? just out of interest
<mako> xuzo: you guys should also work on coordating with the doc team
<mako> for translations stuff
<thung> czy ja moglbym tutaj zaglosowac? ;)
<titus`> the ubuntu-fr list is the user one and the dev@ubuntu-fr.org list is for the site development
<mako> xuzo, titus`: if either of you need any help, email me
<mako> titus`: that's fine
<xuzo> mako: we are very open to colaboration
<mako> thung: ?
<mako> xuzo: great :)
<smurfix> ... or me ;-)
<mdke> titus`, cool thanks
<mako> alright.. lets move on
<mako> it's great to meet all of you :)
<xuzo> please send us whateve you consider by mail
<mako> xuzo: please do the same :)
<titus`> yes :)
<mako> thanks for showing up :)
<mako> is rave around?
<mako> we should move ont to apporving folks
<Seveas> no
<smurfix> So that concludes this round of "locoteams WAY ready for the 'official' list" ...
<smurfix> I ho to have more of them soon ;-)
<smurfix> hope
<mako> smurfix: great :)
<mako> smurfix: thanks for your work on this
<mako> very appreciated
<craigaa> +1
<mdke> yeah
<titus`> thanks smurfix 
<mako> new members!!!
* smurfix bows
<mako> rave is not here.. he also didn't update his webpage
<mako> is trulux around?
<mako> apparently not.. lets move on
<mako> SimoneGotti
<mdke> not here
<xuzo> thanks to all ;)
<Kamion> was trulux not covered in a previous meeting in some way?
<mako> Kamion: we told him to come back in two weeks
<Riddell> SimoneGotti isn't here
<Kamion> mako: not reflected in the agenda, should be?
<mako> Kamion: when he had actually commtted some code
<mako> Kamion: i knew both of the first two had been asked to come back, but didn;'t really note it
<mako> i'll do that in the future
<mako> gabriel doesn't appear to be here either
<mdke> ecchilo
<mako> Ankur Kotwal is though
<trulux> many thanks for the advice
<mako> trulux: hey dude 
<Unfrgiven> mako: yep im here
<ajmitch> hello trulux 
<trulux> Nafallo: oops, just changed tab
<mako> trulux: we'll come back in a second
<Nafallo> trulux: glad you're here :-)
<trulux> hey fellows
<Kamion> mako: I've moved them down to the bottom
<trulux> I hope everything was and is going on fine :)
<mako> Unfrgiven: alright dude, want to do the short summary of your work in ubuntu so far, what you want to do work on in the future
<trulux> Nafallo: thanks, thanks for the advice too
<Unfrgiven> mako: well i got involved with ubuntu at UDU. participated at a few BOFs. after which I started talking with dholbach, tseng, ajmitch and ogra and had a go at packaging for universe
<dholbach> Unfrgiven will be part of the MOTU crew soon, he has already one package in, plans the desktop team with us and is involved in the developer documentation project! i triple-double-ber-vouch for him :-)
* ogra nods
<Unfrgiven> mako: thus far, i've had one package uploaded. others i looked merely needed to be pulled in from debian
<Seveas> noe that's a recommendation...
<Unfrgiven> mako: i'm also currently implementing the IntroDeveloperDocs spec
<mako> wow.. that's a ber from someone who knows what it means
<jsgotangco> Unfrgiven is also involved in writing IntroDeveloperDocs
<ogra> hehe
<ajmitch> mako: yeah, Unfrgiven is a model member :)
<ogra> absolutely
<Unfrgiven> mako: i've been looking at universe bugs to fix
<mako> Kamion, elmo: what do you say
<Unfrgiven> mako: and also trying to get involved with the C++ transisiton
<elmo> mako: ack
* mako is happy to approve based on experience + wiki + recs
<\sh> Unfrgiven++ after all, I'm glad to join him in his writings for the dev docu
* tseng Unfrgiven++
<Kamion> MOTU's a usual significant contribution and recommendations are good, no problems
<Unfrgiven> mako: finally, ive done some bazaar translations
<Unfrgiven> on rosetta
<mako> Unfrgiven: nice :)
<mako> Unfrgiven: into australian?
<Unfrgiven> mako: yeah.
<ogra> lol
* mdke winces
<mako> "command not found, wanker."
<jsgotangco> hah
<Seveas> hahaha
<ogra> LOL
<ivoks> :))
<Nafallo> lol
<tseng> Log out, hey?
<Unfrgiven> mako: "piss off, mate" :)
<dholbach> :-)
<mako> Kamion: ?
<mako> oh right
<mako> nevermind
<mako> cool
<ogra> tseng, isnt ", hey" sa ?
<mako> Unfrgiven: welcome dude
<Unfrgiven> mako: thanks =)
<dholbach> woohoo, Unfrgiven!
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: congrats & all
<tseng> ogra: i dunno andyfitz and jdub say it
<ogra> yay Unfrgiven !
<mako> JeromeGotangco, jsgotangco you're up
<\sh> Unfrgiven: congrats :)
* Unfrgiven is so excited...
<jsgotangco> ok time for me to wake up
<mako> caffeinate, quickly
<tseng> jsgotangco as member?
<mako> jsgotangco: made a number of important contributsions at UDU
<tseng> definately from me.
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: you're not already a member?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, missed last meeting (3am)
<ogra> i'm astonished too
<mako> when people came in without much direction, i personally directed them to jsgotangco  :)
<ajmitch> we must fix this
<mdke> jsgotangco also uploads to the documentation repository and contributes heavily to the kubuntu documentation
<ogra> as soon as possible
<mako> i'm familiar with jsgotangco's docteam contributions
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, (its only 6:30am now)
<mako> and i'd be happy to approve him on those alone
<Mithrandir> mako: apart from him having a totally unpronouceable irc nick?
<jsgotangco> hah
<jsgotangco> well i did some specs too
<elmo> Mithrandir: just think of it as 'just got tangoed'
<mdke> *laughs*
<jsgotangco> elmo, nice hehe
<Simira> hey!
<opi> mako's new nick rulling
<ogra> heh
<Seveas> mako seems to be on crack ;)
<Simira> I'm the only one "tangoing" with Mithrandir!
* mdke breaks and orange over Simira 
<Mithrandir> Simira: it's jsgotangco which just got tangoed, relax. :)
<opi> Seveas: he's New Yorker after all ;)
<Simira> Mithrandir: hm, ok. We'll do some tango later, then.
<jsgotangco> I already started doing PDASupport and looking into diving into universer as well
<Kamion> I was surprised jsgotangco wasn't a member already, happy to ack based on UDU stuff I saw
<bmjxxkehx> Kamion, elmo: feelings?
<elmo> mako: ack
<bmjxxkehx> killer
<bmjxxkehx> jsgotangco: welcome dude!
<\sh> rock
<jsgotangco> rock!
<mdke> congrats jsgotangco 
<mako> jsgotangco: go back to sleep :)
<jsgotangco> tee hee
<ogra> yeah jsgotangco 
<dholbach> jsgotangco: ROCK
<mako> is Ryan Troy here?
<jsgotangco> nah...sun is already up
<mako> should be
<jsgotangco> thanks
<kassetra> nope, but I'm here for him.
<ogra> mako, sotp changing colors
<kassetra> I think he was just leaving work.
<mako> well, ryan's reputation preceeds him
<kassetra> good.  :)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: well done :)
<mako> kassetra: want to summarize his deeds for him?
<kassetra> In case it didn't, I can tell you all about his work for Ubuntu.
<kassetra> yep.
<kassetra> He started and runs/administrates the massive Ubuntu Forums.
<Kamion> what kind of workload is that? it's not something I have any experience with
<mako> i'd love to talk to ryan in more depth, hopefully at the next conf or before, about how we can help integrate those communities
<kassetra> He personally hosts the Forums, and has contributed over 700 posts, as well as howto documents and help for users.
<Unfrgiven> jsgotangco: contrats! :)
<mdke> ah is he ubuntugeek?
<kassetra> yes.
<JohnDong> yep
<mdke> ah cool
<kassetra> ubuntu-geek / ubuntugeek = Ryan.
<JohnDong> may I add a few words about him?
<amu> aha :) 
<opi> well, if he's Ubuntugeek then it's ++ from me :-)
<kassetra> yes, please john!
<mako> kassetra: so, is the personal hosting thing problematic?
<jsgotangco> wow that guy is like the monster ubuntuforum poster
<JohnDong> He also administers my Backports server, which he pays for out of his own pocket
<ogra> ARGH
* ogra hides from the bad word
<JohnDong> He works very hard, always helping me set up new services and such
<\sh> B word
<mako> the forums were up before our first release IIRC
<tseng> you said the magic word!!!!!!
<kassetra> Well, it's not problematic in the sense that he handles it completely, but it can be expensive.
<jsgotangco> ogra loves backports
<ogra> GRR
<mako> kassetra: well, i think we should have this conversation then soon
<JohnDong> one day, he spent at least 6 hours straight getting Subversion working
<kassetra> ok.  
* Mithrandir gives ogra some valium
<mako> kassetra: i'm not entirely sure how we should support that.. and this is probably not the place to have it
<ogra> Mithrandir, thanks, i need it
* Nafallo tries to ssh ogra again ;-)
<ogra> :)
<mako> yeah, ogra and ryan can talk about... something .. later
<kassetra> Right.  Right now he's asking for community donations for a new and improved server... so far, people are willing to help.  :)
<mako> kassetra: i think we might be able to work out a better way
<mdke> the forum is a vital resource
<ogra> we should, definatly
<mako> in any case, i'm happy to welcome ryan on board
<JohnDong> He also pushed for three backports mirrors on my behalf
<JohnDong> I highly recommend this guy
<kassetra> mako: then go ahead and contact me, I work with Ryan on a daily basis.
<tseng> can we seperate the forums and backports issues JohnDong ?
<JohnDong> sure :)
<ogra> yeah
<mako> JohnDong: let's just talk about forums :)
<tseng> thanks.
<ogra> thanks
<dholbach> :-)
<\sh> forum++ but Bword--
<mdke> yeah
<Seveas> \sh++
<mako> oh man.. i'm glad peopel cant' see me laughing out loud
<mako> wait
<mako> shit
<mdke> forums really need our support
<mako> ok
<tseng> someone please contact me about mono backports after this btw.
<mako> alright ryan++
<mdke> LOL
<ogra> tseng+++
<mako> elmo, Kamion: ?
<elmo> ack
<tseng> but ryan++
<Kamion> ryan++, the forums are clearly a huge chunk of work
<\sh> we should see that we route the Bword activity to universe, anyways ryan++
<Kamion> which we oughta acknowledge :)
<kassetra> work being the correct word there Kamion.
<mako> one of my personal goals in the near future is working on integrating the forums and the rest of the community moer
<mako> kassetra: you and ryan and others hewre are going to be super helfpul
<kassetra> that's one of our goals as well.
<mako> i really appreciate the fact that you guys have showed up here
<mako> alright then
<mako> kassetra: welcome ryan or tell him to pop by and i'll welcome him :)
<mako> AdamIsrael ?
<mako> CraigAdams ?
<mako> man, you again
<nqt> is there a way to find configuration files from packages no longer installed, and delete them?
<mako> craigaa: cool, other non-loco stuff we should know about :)
<craigaa> yup, I sneak up everywhere
<mako> nqt: wrong channel bud
<JohnDong> lol
<nqt> oh shoot, sorry mako 
<mako> nqt: no problem
<craigaa> various, but lets leave it for now
<mako> craigaa: alright, you want to show up again in a few weeks then?
<craigaa> actually, all would be considered loco related ;-)
<mako> well, significant loco work can work toward membership
<mako> but i don't really see that documented on your wiki page yet
<\sh> craigaa: 10kg of biltong for a ++? ,-) and some stuff from coconut grove@durban ;) *bribingnow*
<craigaa> we'll see :-)
* mako blinks at \sh 
<craigaa> \sh: I'll have to eat it on your behalf though
<mako> i have no idea what you said
<craigaa> ahh, the uninitiated
<jsgotangco> biltong
<jsgotangco> yum
<mako> craigaa: why don't you work on that wiki page and on documenting those contributions as you go and we'll come back to this :)
<\sh> mako: visit durban and eat a chili cheese lamb burger @ coconut grove ;) then u know ;)
<craigaa> k
<mako> EmilOppelnBronikowski
<opi> here
<mako> omg opi
<ogra> OPI !!!
<opi> omg mako ;)
<mdke> mako, re the forums, we are working on a way to using forum resources in the wiki
<mako> mdke: nice
<dieman> yay, back home on the fast network.
<mdke> or really, hno71 is
<ogra> mako, opis signature was the reason for me to go to irc... without that i wouldnt be here today ;)
<mako> opi: why don't you do the whole short intro
* mdke slaps opi 
<mako> c
<opi> OK, I'm a LoCo leader, focused on all aspects of Ubuntu
<mako> c'mon
<mako> opi: how are things going with your loco?
<opi> I provide goodies for my LoCo team aswell as help for all the Ubuntu users on Mailing lists ;-)
<opi> mako: slow but steady
<mako> nice :)
<opi> mako: we have first packages done by members
<mako> nice
<mako> i've been watching and working with opi for what seems like a long time
<opi> mako: we have a working Subversion repo to share code
<mako> i'm happy to give him my ++
<opi> we're developing own Wiki engine, to see how we're coworking
<mako> opi: you're writing a wiki?
<opi> the main docs of Ubuntu (ubuntuguide and CoC) are translated
<opi> yup
<opi> TrickyWiki ;)
<ivoks> :)
<Kamion> opi: you mentioned Pegasos port work - how've you been getting on with that?
<opi> it's on my page
<mako> opi: well, that seems a bit much, but :)
<amu> mako: opi is cult :) 
<opi> Kamion: my Pegasos board sits on custom ;)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> amu++
<Kamion> sits on custom?
<opi> mako: well, it's just a reason to see how people cowork
<opi> Kamion: on the border
<opi> Kamion: FedEx lags
<Kamion> ah, customs
<opi> yeah, I should sed that
<\sh> from what I saw: opi must be approved...at least for his subversion work and UUS
<opi> I want to be MOTU soon, too
<ogra> YAY
<opi> because I have few packages I'd like to take over from Universe
* ogra looks forward to that
<ajmitch> good
<dholbach> opi: join the fun and pain in #ubuntu-motu :-)
<ajmitch> we need more fresh blood :)
<ogra> yeah
<Kamion> opi: ah, I see, that was a goal not something you'd done, I misread
<ogra> and bring some friends with you
<opi> calling me a fresh blood is like calling Windows a server platform ;)
<ogra> hehe
<amu> hehe
<Nafallo> hehe
<opi> I will, as I said we have few packages
<opi> I only need to hint'em to MOUT
<opi> people, not packages
<JohnDong> greetings, Ryan
<JohnDong> :)
<RyanTroy> Hey john..
<mdke> RyanTroy, welcome
<\sh> opi: get in touch with blvszcz (Rafal Zawadzki)
<RyanTroy> Hey mdke
<opi> and if I get my Pegasos, I'll bore Kamion to death with my questions
<Kamion> heh
<opi> \sh: I'm working with him
<mako> sorry got a phone call
<\sh> opi: good :)
<\sh> opi: very good :)
<\sh> opi++
<opi> \sh: I just bugzilled his splash-packages ;)
<Kamion> RyanTroy: hi, we just approved you for membership
<opi> \sh: bugzilled as whined about them on ML ;)
<Kamion> welcome, and thanks for your work
<\sh> opi: I was working with him on his pyrss :)
<mdke> RyanTroy, you are in
<mdke> :)
<RyanTroy> kamion: Cool :) Thanks everyone
<Kamion> RyanTroy: anything you want to talk with us about?
<opi> go right ahed, RyanTroy :-)
<mako> Kamion,elmo: feelings on opi?
<mako> first
<mako> RyanTroy: welcome! :)
<Kamion> I'm fine with opi, he's been around for ages and doing stuff
<ogra> +++
<elmo> ack
<mako> RyanTroy: also welcome to life as an ubuntu member
<mako> DennisKaarsemaker is up next?
<mako> around
<Seveas> yes
<opi> thanks :-)
<mako> opi: welcome aboard dude
<Seveas> hi :)
<opi> now, the MOTU, next -- World Domination
<mako> Seveas: want to do the short rundown
<\sh> opi: RyanTroy : congrats to you both :)
<opi> I love to be around 
<Seveas> sure, i've put it all on the wiki, here's the short summary:
<ogra> Seveas, you always hide behind this undescriptive nick :)
<Seveas> I have done a lot of community work on IRC (#ubuntu and #ubuntu-nl), have started the dutch translation of the ubuntu website and am advocating ubuntu as much as possible. My plans for ubuntu involve network magic with WPA, making ubuntu rock the kasbah on grid computing and doing more community work (and a small docteam related thing).
<RyanTroy> I am glad we are starting to get the forums integrated with other ubuntu aspects.. hendrik,mako and jeff have all contacted me about various things. I guess we should come up with a plan of sorts on how we can integrate even more.
<Seveas> ogra, my former nick (Catweazle) got stolen :)
<ogra> Seveas, you forgot hundrets of mails to the ML
<opi> mako: I'll write to you about the pgp key ;-)
<Burgundavia> mako, Seveas would make a great #ubuntu op
<mako> RyanTroy: we also should talk about ways to help you out with hosting
<ogra> Burgundavia++++
<mdke> whenever i've been in #ubuntu Seveas has always been there helping
<mako> Burgundavia: ahh, ok
<Seveas> Burgundavia, thank you
<opi> mako: erhm. CoC signing.
<crimsun> Seveas++ for member
<mako> anyone here worked with Seveas and want to vouch
<mako> Seveas: so you are dutch
<jsgotangco> me too Seveas++ he's always visible
<dholbach> absolutely
<wdh> mdke, same for #ubuntu-nl
<Seveas> yes, i am working with Treenaks on the dutchteam 
<mako> Seveas: so you are probably used to people pointing out that your name has "arse" in it
<RyanTroy> mako: yeah sounds good what do you have in mind?
<mako> RyanTroy: lets talk after
<RyanTroy> mako: ok 
<Seveas> mako, no, never had to do that :)
<mako> Seveas: glad i could be the first :)
<Seveas> kaars == candle, that's what they see :)
<mako> arse means a little something different where i come from
<jsgotangco> heh
<Seveas> i know :)
<mako> well with that clear, i'm happy to have you as a member
<mako> Kamion, elmo: ?
<elmo> ack
<Simira> Seveas: ah, you're on the Dutch team?
<Seveas> Simira, yes, one of the first members
<Seveas> i (try to) maintain the website
<mako> Burgundavia: you're up
<Burgundavia> yo
<Kamion> yes, ack Seveas for member based on recommendations
<Simira> Seveas: I'd want a talk with you at some point then, about a European-covering webshop and some stuff. But not tonight, please
<mako> Seveas: welcome! :)
<RyanTroy> One thing that has raised a concern in the past few weeks, is forum interaction with certain members of the doc team.
<mako> Seveas: send me the signec co :)
<\sh> Seveas: *handshake* grats :)
<Seveas> Simira, contact me off-chat at dennis@kaarsemaker.net then
<Burgundavia> so I have done doc stuff and I went to Mataro
<mako> RyanTroy: can we bring this up right after the members?
<Seveas> mako, k
<Seveas> \sh thank you!
<RyanTroy> mako: yeah no problem
* mako is familiar with Burgundavia from IRC and from the docteam work
<Seveas> mako, thanks too!
<mako> and i'm willing to vouch for his work
<mako> and willing to approve him based on that
<Burgundavia> more recently I have been working with mvo and mpt regarding the synaptic UI
<jsgotangco> he also did a talk
<mdke> Seveas, nice one
* Seveas vouches for Burgundavia based on irc
<jsgotangco> (i dont remember where though)
<mako> Burgundavia: cool :)
<Burgundavia> I also am trying to bridge the forum <--> developer gap
<Burgundavia> and trying to do some packaging
<mdke> Burgundavia is a Ubuntu machine
<mako> Burgundavia: nice :)
<Burgundavia> oh, and the speech
<Burgundavia> some promotion of rosetta
<Burgundavia> #ubuntu
<mako> Burgundavia: loads of great non-code contributions
* Burgundavia is not really that busy
<mdke> he is always full of ideas for the documentation team
<mako> thanks dude for all of it :)
<wdh> Seveas, feli
<dholbach> Burgundavia will be MOTUGames pusher!
<mako> Kamion, elmo: feelings?
<ogra> Burgundavia helped a lot on MOTU stuff where he could !!
<mako> NO GAMES WE DONT LIKE FUN HERE
<elmo> mako: ack
<Burgundavia> I have one upload
<\sh> and for his effords to fill in this gap between forum <->dev and his way to talk and help on irc a ++
<Burgundavia> more soon, when I wrap my head further around the deb system
<mako> in fact, i think having someone with arse in their name may be TOO FUN and consider retracting Seveas's membership
<Kamion> Burgundavia's fine by me
<Seveas> :p
<ogra> mako, LOL
* Burgundavia is also looking for a job, so his contribs might drop sharply in the very near future, but hopes to keep them up
<mako> Seveas: we'll let this one slide :)
<mako> Burgundavia: welcome dude
<mdke> yay :D
<ogra> hooray
<mako> AnteKaramatic
<mdke> congrats Burgundavia 
<Seveas> welcome aboard Burgundavia 
<ivoks> Ante is here ;)
<ogra> ivoks !!!
<dholbach> ivoks!!!
<ivoks> hi all
<dholbach> woohoo!
<opi> Burgundavia: I'm going to quit, so it will be in the middle again
<\sh> ivoks rocks
<ogra> yay
<ogra> ivoks is cool
<mako> \sh: also rhymes
<ivoks> well, as my wiki says, i'm from zagreb, croatia
<ogra> and did already a _lot_ for the CXX transition
<mako> ivoks: hey.. we should talk after the meeting
<ivoks> i'm doing some cxx transition
<dholbach> ogra: triple-double-ber-++ :-)
<ivoks> mako: ok :)
<ogra> +++++++++
<dholbach> SOME!
<dholbach> hahaha
<dholbach>  :-)
<ogra> hehe
* dholbach hugs ivoks 
<\sh> quite easy to work with him....he was cxx transing quite a lot..a +^10 from me
* ogra hugs ivoks 
<ivoks> ok, guys :) u make me blush
<ogra> great :)
<\sh> red ivoks? ,-)
<ivoks> where was I?
<opi> ivoks: we can create ubuntu-balkans now ;-)
<mako> ivoks: nice wiki page
* mako is happy to approve ivoks 
<Kamion> ivoks++ for scarily dedicated MOTU work
<ivoks> yes, only one package from scratch
<mako> elmo: ?
<ivoks> ok :)
<elmo> ack
<dholbach> ROCK!
<Seveas> PAPER!
<Kamion> BTW please make sure that changelogs properly credit contributors
<mdke> ivoks, :)
<ivoks> thanks guys :)
<mako> ivoks: welcome to the team dude
<mako> Kamion++
<mako> so.. KarianneGrnningster
<\sh> ivoks: u made it :)
<Simira> meow
<ogra> Kamion, sorry, my fault
<ivoks> hehe thanks to all of you
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: congrats!!! :)
<Simira> Karianne is me
<Kamion> some of the packages ivoks mentioned seem to have been uploaded by others, I don't know whether that was work colliding or not, but it makes it hard to check up on things
<opi> yahoo![tm]  ivoks 
<ivoks> Kamion: by doko
<mako> ivoks: thanks dude for all your contributions. hopefully we will meet soon
<Simira> I'm mainly working on Norwegian LoCo stuff, for the time being, trying to put some translations inbetween
<ogra> Kamion, as i said, my fault....
<dholbach> ivoks: you should mail elmo, so he can whitelist your mailadress
<Mithrandir> mako: you did just paste those funny characters. :P
<Kamion> ogra: no problem since you're here, just for future reference
<ivoks> mako: sure :) i'll do my best to continue
<ogra> Kamion, i did nearly all of the uploads
<mako> Mithrandir: no...
<mako> Mithrandir: yes
<Kamion> Simira++ for member, for loco work, as far as I'm concerned
<Simira> we've got some ok web pages ut on www.ubuntu.no (well, that's Mithrandir's work), and I get a decent response on that. We've got about 30 members on two mailing lists. 
<mako> Simira: awesome.. what is translating into norwegian like? building a community
<Mithrandir> Simira: I'm just technically responsible, I don't do translations and content and stuff.
<mako> norway seems to be in this strange place where so many people speak english that you have this huge pool of translators and what appears to be less of a need
<Seveas> mako, that goes for holland too :)
<mkde> = mdke
<mako> i swear, there is a high english speaking population in oslo than new york city
<Kamion> oh, I could do with Norwegian-speaker help on #2539 and #4172
<Mithrandir> mako: like .nl, a lot of computer literate people prefer to operate their computer in English here but we really really want translations for stuff like schools and reaching out.
<mako> Simira: once you fix those bugs, you can be a member :)
<Simira> mako: I'm contacting the LUG's around, informing about Ubuntu. We've already got a handful of active translators, and a good discussion around it. I must admit I've little overview about what's being translated just now, as LoCo-stuff takes most of my Ubuntu-work-time
<doko> ivoks: welcome!
<Kamion> mako: harsh dude :)
<ivoks> doko: thanks :)
<mako> fine fine, i approve Simira even without fixing those bugs :)
<mako> Mithrandir: hmm
<ogra> hooray for ivoks
<Simira> mako: don't you want to hear more? I want to have a webshop! For NO, and possibly Europe. And I want some cool Ubuntu/Canonical people like youself to come and speak to us.
<Mithrandir> Kamion: the first one I can take a look at, but I might need access to a mac and not just a pegasos.
<mkde> Simira, great idea
<mako> Simira: what is a webshop?
<mkde> a shop online i presumed
<mako> and how would i come to a web shop
<Simira> I'll have a look at those, Kamion ;) Though technically, Mithrandir is probably the guy. I could assign a LoCo member in any case.
<mako> ok, she called me cool MAKE HER A MEMBER
<mkde> *grins*
<mako> elmo: ?
<Mithrandir> Kamion: the second one is because of missing norwegian translations and the LANGUAGES fallback.
<opi> mako: I need t onotify Mika about your IRC sessions ;-)
<Simira> mako: an online shop. You coming to speak to LoCo-people not related to that. ;p I just want to push t-shirts, and stickers, and keyrings, and cups, and... you know
<mkde> Simira, i think thats a fantastic and much needed idea
<opi> I badly need a sticker for my bass :-)
<mako> Simira: cool.. i'll traveling around europe much of this summer doing the ubuntu advocacy thing.. we can arrange something.. post meeting or tomorrow romsehting
* Seveas wants ubuntu toilet paper :p
<mako> Simira: that sounds great :)
<elmo> mako: ack
<mkde> ubuntu pyjamas please
<\sh> simira: i need a new trolltech shirt, can u ask them to send me one? mine's 4 years old ;)
<Simira> mdke, mako: silbs seemed ok about it. 
<Simira> heyhey! I need to get this thing up running first, ok? I'll put the url on the mailing lists and wiki as soon as it's up!
<jsgotangco> ubuntu toilet paper with mako's image hmmm
<opi> Simira: we want effects now! ;))
<Mithrandir> mkde: I guess we'll start with t-shirts and proceed to pyjamases a bit later. :)
<Kamion> Mithrandir/Simira: yes, the first one is more people who know what Norwegian Mac keyboards actually look like
<Mithrandir> Kamion: I could get you a picture of one, certainly, but I don't have a mac. :)
<mkde> Mithrandir, ;)
<mako> jsgotangco: is sacrficing people's kaarse's is what it takes to promote ubuntu, i'll do it
<Simira> I liked the pyjamas idea. But what's the point in cool clothing that noone (or at least few) will see?
<Mithrandir> Simira: PYJAMAS PARTIES!
<mako> sorry..
<Simira> Ubuntu Pyjamas parties????
<mako> if sacrificing my image to people's kaarses
<Mithrandir> Kamion: or I could buy a mac usb keyboard and send it to you or something.
<Mithrandir> Simira: think of the conferences
<Seveas> Mithrandir++
* mkde nods
<Simira> we definitely have to have one at the conferences then, yes
<\sh> "The Ubuntu Breezy Badger European Pyjama Release Party" (TUBBEPRP)
<Seveas> hahaha
<mako> :)
<mako> alright
<mako> Simira: welcome on board!
<Nafallo> Simira, Mithrandir: We're on that one! :-)
<mako> FrodeDoeving
<mako> last up
<mkde> Simira, :D
<Simira> sigurdga is one of "my" faithful LoCo members and translators, and "we want t-shirts" pushers
<uniq> kamion, mithrandir i'll get a norwegian ibook some day this week. if that'll help.
<uniq> yes. FrodeDoeving is me.
<Simira> thanks folks, I'll do my best
<uniq> I've been working with the kubuntu guys for some time. I've packaged a few packages, and there are more to come. I also help out in #kubuntu and at ubuntuforums.org.
<Simira> *digs into webshop startup research*
<mako> uniq: hey, nice wiki page
<mako> uniq: want to do a bit of overview?
<uniq> And after this norwegian session here.. i'll have to link up with simira some time.
<Riddell> uniq is great, we want him
* ogra hugs Simira (if tollef allows that)
<Kamion> uniq: help moving the Edubuntu project forward would certainly be useful; it's a top priority for breezy
<ogra> yeah
<uniq> kamion: great, hope i can help.
<Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu
<amu> mako: uniq helps a lot, +++  
<Kamion> (if you didn't know that already)
<uniq> kamion: i've seen it :)
<Simira> uniq/mako: kde has its own translation project, so we're not concentrating much on them, for the Norwegian translation team-part of it. But of course some communication would do good.
<\sh> I think we need uniq to dominate the universe so ++++ :)
* Kamion thwaps amu and \sh for invalid C syntax. :)
* amu look for doko and ask about help
<mako> uniq: nice page, i'm ahppy to have on board
<\sh> Kamion: it's the syntax of perl 15.5 ;)
<mako> Kamion, elmo: ?
<uniq> mako: thanks :)
<Kamion> I'm fine with uniq
<elmo> yeah, ack
<mkde> :)
<LinuxJones> Kamion, I am going to be working on some Instructional Training Videos using Ubuntu might they be used as training materials for Edubuntu ? 
<mako> uniq: welcome on board
<mako> :)
<doko> ?
<\sh> uniq: congrats
<uniq> mako: thank you :)
<doko> amu: ?
<uniq> \sh: thanks :)
<Kamion> LinuxJones: I don't really know anything about the substance of Edubuntu, but it seems to be in scope
<ivoks> congrats
<LinuxJones> Kamion, ok
<Seveas> mako, is there a list of approved members somewhere?
<mkde> also, did anything come of the CC members get ops in #ubuntu idea?
<dholbach> Seveas: it's *a bit* incomplete
<dholbach> i think it was UbuntuMembers
<mkde> #ubuntu still gets rowdy sometimes
<mako> umm.. ok
<mako> sorry about this
<mako> let's wrap up
<Seveas> yeah i want to know that too, that was my #1 reason to apply for membership earlier than i planned to :)
<mako> so smurfix
<jsgotangco> umm
<jsgotangco> mako
<jsgotangco> wait
<mako> yes
<jsgotangco> how about suggestions
<\sh> not only #ubuntu :(
<mako> jsgotangco: suggestions for?
<mako> smurfix: you still around?
<smurfix> yep
<mkde> \sh, those damn -devels are rowdy too
<jsgotangco> I think we need a community based marketing team
* tseng nominates jsgotangco to leade marketing team
<mako> jsgotangco: alright.. lets move that down to any other business.. lets finish the things on the agenda
<mako> we're almost there
<tseng> :D
<jsgotangco> gyah
<mako> tseng: i think that may be a pretty sane solution :)
<mako> smurfix: so, loco issues
<\sh> mkde: well...i'm not talking about devs on crack ;) 
<mako> smurfix: there were two things on the mailing list.. is there anything you want to bring up now that we can address in the next weeks?
<mkde> \sh, guess it keeps em sane
<mako> any comments you want to make about either of the loco items on the agenda
<smurfix> Simira has created a LoCoTeamRunning page which I think is a very good idea -- please add stuff, esp. loco leaders/contacts ;)
<mkde> i think it might be useful to address the list question
<opi> smurfix: I will
<opi> smurfix: btw: what's with the Loco-leaders ML?
<opi> smurfix: it's quiet. or dead.
<smurfix> mkde: I was getting to that
<smurfix> opi: We want to set one up at ubuntu-central instead
<mkde> sorry, didn't mean to sound impatient at all :)
<opi> smurfix: OK
<smurfix> We had some brainstorming about the when-teams-become-teams question at UDU
<mako> right
<opi> teams-becomes-team when it acts like one
<smurfix> My rule-of-thumb criterion is "the team's entry in the list is reasonably complete and I see some activity"
<smurfix> opi: exactly
<mkde> opi, ++
<smurfix> As to the loco/docteam confusion, the French example has shown that there is indeed a problem :-/
<smurfix> s/doc/language
<opi> when you see something coming out from the group, you can say they are team :-)
<opi> smurfix: and .it team
<smurfix> which I probably have to think about a bit more before I get ideas what to do about it -- suggestions welcome
<mako> alright
<mako> so if necessary, i think we can write something up for the next meeting
<mako> but i'm not even sure that is necessary
<smurfix> opi: That, too. The leader/contact rename is mostly done, except that I have to poll the teams on the list and ask about the role the person in it has
<mako> this meeting seems to be running out of steam :)
<mako> smurfix: does that sounds sane?
<smurfix> which I was kindof deferring until we have a mailing list again ;)
<opi> mako: it's quite late here ;)
<smurfix> mako: sure -- being aware of the problem, in the future I'll tell new loco people to check "there" too
<smurfix> that might be enough
<mkde> is the current best spec on the udu wiki or the main one?
<smurfix> so, let's warp it up I guess
<Kamion> I'm fading pretty past
<opi> smurfix: I think that good LoCo team needs almost no additional attention from Leader
<Kamion> er, fast
<mako> alrigh then
<mako> is there any othe business
<smurfix> mkde: the UDU one is more verbose ;-)
<mako> other business
<opi> smurfix: I consider Leader to be a connector between CC and them
<mkde> smurfix, kthx
<mako> i'm happy to stay online and talk to people about stuff we've defered under after the meeting
<mako> going once...
<mako> going twice...
<opi> sold
<craigaa> sold
<mako> going three times...
<mako> GONE
<ivoks> ewe
<mako> thanks everyone
<jsgotangco> sold
<mako> send me the cocs
<jsgotangco> great
<ivoks> heh
<mako> signed CoCs from all new members
<jsgotangco> mako's CoC
<mako> welcome on board!
<Seveas> mako, you already have mine :)
<ivoks> i hate working in dark :)
<mako> see you all in a couple weeks or sooner :)
<mako> Kamion, elmo: thanks
<jsgotangco> signed (and even encrypted)
<opi> mako: you're going away again? ;)
<Kamion> thanks, folks
<opi> g'night all :-)
<ivoks> thank you ;)
<jsgotangco> great meeting
<craigaa> good morning all
<Unfrgiven> thanks all
<craigaa> see you around
<Seveas> g'night everyone
<ivoks> bye guys
<dholbach> thanks everyone
<mkde> night all
<Simira> nighty!
<xuzo> good night all
<ogra> yeah thanks 
<\sh> night community...
<mako> i'm going to take a few minutes break
<mako> but i'll be around
<ivoks> :)
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> mako, let's talk later
<uniq> mako: I send my CoC 25. april, should I send a new one? 
<Seveas> mako, did you know that CoC is also the dutch gay organization :p
<mako> Seveas: excellent!
<mako> Seveas: website?
<Seveas> www.coc.nl (in dutch)
<mako> uniq: umm.. let give me a second to look it upt
<jsgotangco> mako, look up mine as well if you can (please)
<Seveas> http://www.coc.nl/dopage.pl?thema=any&pagina=algemeen&algemeen_id=126 <== english version
<ivoks> i can't look anumore
<ivoks> :(
<uniq> mako: the one without signatures from someone in the biglumber.
<jsgotangco> wow CoC lives
<mako> JohnDong: hey dude?
<mako> you still around?
<JohnDong> yeah
<mako> Kamion, elmo: still around either of you?
<mkde> i wonder if there is a UK locoteam
<elmo> yes
<Riddell> mkde: someone was appointed contact
<mako> there was a miscommunication in regards to the agenda
<Riddell> never heard anything out of it
<mako> john dong showed up here.. he was postponed for a while until he showed up
<Kamion> mako: barely
<mkde> Riddell, we should get one sorted for presence at conferences and stuff
<mako> he'd like to be considered for membershi
<JohnDong> :-)
<mako> he does like 4h/day in the forums... 2000 posts.. done does umm.. (backports) work
<mkde> this guy is king of the forums
<JohnDong> lol, I try :)
* mako happy to see John as a member
<kassetra> So would I.
<mako> although i think you should really talk to some of the motu people about the backports
<jsgotangco> of course
<JohnDong> like it or not, there's 24,000 hungry B-word users, according to 7 days worth of stats collection
<mkde> not
<JohnDong> lol
<mkde> that is a lot tho
<mako> JohnDong: right, but you need to take into account some of the problems that this has caused the rest of the ubuntu team
<uniq> mako: I'll have to call it a day. Would be great if you sendt me a privmsg or a mail or something with the status on the signed coc.
<Kamion> demand or not we'd still like to get as much into the distro proper as possible
<mako> and maybe there are ways of serving those people in ways that are less problematic
<uniq> gnite all.
<JohnDong> I try to resolve those in any way possible
<JohnDong> I understand the trouble that it's caused
<Kamion> and make sure that fixes don't get lost in backports
<JohnDong> tseng just lectured me about Mono
<JohnDong> :)
<mako> JohnDong: there are a series of problems
<tseng> i wouldnt say lectured :P
<JohnDong> lol
<tseng> kassetra is speaking with me also
<tseng> maybe
<kassetra> :)
<tseng> we can put together a meeting time?
<ogra> maybe ?
<mako> in any case, i think maybe a tb+motu+backport team meeting would be in order
<dholbach> and kassetra absolutely made sure i know you rock and you do ALOT OF work
<mako> yeah lets do that
<ajmitch> tseng: talked strongly? :
<tseng> to discuss backports issues?
<tseng> ajmitch: I ROCKED HIS FACE
<ajmitch> mako: agreed
<JohnDong> cool
<JohnDong> I'm for it
<mako> but if Kamion and elmo are alright, i'm happy to accept john as a member based on the forums contributions alone
<Seveas> The biggest problem that backports caused is a serious problem to opi's valium consumption :)
<JohnDong> lol
<JohnDong> I see that
<mako> and the backports are a serious contribution
<mako> in terms of size if nothing else :)
<elmo> mako: ack
<RyanTroy> I'l like to just pipe in about backports for a second if i can
<kassetra> And on top of that, he ALSO helps tons of users on the forums.
<opi> Seveas: I don't take pills :-)
<mako> Kamion: right, clearly
<mkde> Seveas, s/ogras's
<mako> RyanTroy: sure, but this isn't the time to HAVE that meeting :)
<ogra> hrm
<Seveas> mkde, and the #ubuntu people too
<mako> i think mahy of us are meetined out right now
<ogra> yep
* \sh is just sleepin
<opi> uhm.. about the @/#ubuntu issue
<ogra> 4h in a row
<mako> yeah
<RyanTroy> mako: sounds good when you guys get a meeting setup let me know..
* ivoks is dead
* mkde strokes ogra
* Seveas revives ivoks
<mako> JohnDong: follow up with me on email and lets work something out
<mako> ok
<opi> if there's a need for another eye on the #ubuntu, I can set my autojoin there
<ivoks> :)
<JohnDong> mako: sure
<ogra> mkde, i cant even react
<Simira> Kamion: what was those bug numbers again?
<mako> Kamion: johdong +/wait?
<Kamion> belatedly, johndong> ack
<\sh> btw..who is responsible for #ubuntu-de?
<tseng> mako: assign a sensible EST time for me
<mako> tseng: i will
<tseng> TA
<mako> JohnDong: welcome on board dude :)
<JohnDong> thanks :)
<kassetra> YAY!
<jsgotangco> 6am is evil but i'll live
<mkde> JohnDong, :D
<mako> JohnDong: looking forward to working out the kinks :)
<JohnDong> I'd be glad to work it out
<mako> JohnDong: nice :)
<Seveas> JohnDong, sneaks in via the backdoor :)
<JohnDong> lol
<\sh> hehe
<Mithrandir> Simira: 2539 and 4172
<Kamion> Simira: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?keywords=installer, search for "norwegian", should find them
<ivoks> i
<ivoks> i'm out...
<Riddell> mkde: found the UK team discussion http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/cc-summary-20050111.html
<\sh> sleep tight ivoks
<mkde> Riddell, nice one
<ogra> night ivoks 
<ivoks> mako: about croatia some other time... i can't now :(
<Seveas> who is responsible for the administration of #ubunto levels?
<ivoks> night all
<Riddell> mkde: I guess it didn't go anywhere after that
<tseng> mako: kassetra is going to make a set of suggested guidelines to govern where backporting is appropriated, for a start
<tseng> we can get that on an agenda page somewhere
<kassetra> Yes I will.  :)
<mako> tseng, kassetra: cool
<mako> what day works for you guys?
<Riddell> mkde: all it needs is a mailing list and wiki page for organising conferences etc on, kde-gb is just that and it works well
<JohnDong> any day
<JohnDong> but I for 4PM EST or later on weekdays
<kassetra> Not thursday, but other than that I am fine.
<JohnDong> not later than 10:00PM EST weekdays
<JohnDong> lol
<JohnDong> I'm still in high school :)
<mkde> Riddell, you think an ubuntu-gb would be good?
<mkde> i think so
<anto9us> I'd join ubuntu-gb
<Kamion> um - uk please?
<mkde> Kamion, ukraine?
<JohnDong> mako, kass: we going to set up a time now, or later via e-mail?
<mkde> ;)
<anto9us> uk is open to confusion with ukraine isn't it?
<Kamion> otherwise Northern Ireland is left out in the cold
<tseng> JohnDong: email.
<JohnDong> ok
<mkde> Kamion, doesn't gb include northern island?
<Kamion> mkde: absolutely not
<kassetra> email is best.
<Kamion> mkde: (I grew up in Northern Ireland.)
<elmo> hahaha
<mkde> Kamion, what about southern ireland?
<elmo> hahahaha
<mkde> excuse my ignorance
<Kamion> southern ireland == .ie
<mkde> yes
<mkde> so gb = eng, wales, sco?
* ogra wonders, doesnt g stand for great in gb ?
<mako> JohnDong: send the email now
<Kamion> mkde: more or less, yes
<elmo> kamion: dude, fix that belfast time zone thing already :p
<mako> i'll reply with a suggestion for a time
<mkde> that's crazy
<tseng> ogra: great britain, yes
<mkde> Kamion, ok we need to work on changing that too
<Kamion> ogra: yes, it's in contrast to Brittany in France
<Kamion> mkde: err
<ogra> :)
<Kamion> elmo: iz glibc bug
<mkde> i always thought gb was everything
<Riddell> mkde: that's British Isles
<mkde> damn i'm ignorant
<jsgotangco> im surprised
<dholbach> good night everyone
<jsgotangco> uk after all is incredibly small
<Riddell> anyway, do we have to go through a format process to get it set up or just ask smurfix or something?
<mkde> so how to resolve the ukraine issue?
<kassetra> goodnight dholbach.  :)
<mkde> Riddell, we can start and then ask him
<dholbach> bye kassetra :-)
<Kamion> ukraine is either -ua or -ukr
<smurfix> Riddell: just ask ;-)
<mkde> Riddell, as you say, ML and wiki page is all that's needed
<Kamion> the country code is ua
<mkde> Kamion, ok then uk it is
<smurfix> I just need a GPG-signed ssh pubkey
<Riddell> smurfix: can you set us up a mailing list
<mkde> jdub can
<smurfix> Riddell: That's jdub's job
<Riddell> thought so
<mkde> how bout I stress him about that and make a wiki page
<smurfix> mako is supposed to be able to do it too, but that hasn't happened yet afaik
<Riddell> smurfix: and if I send you a GPG-signed ssh pubkey what does that get us?
<smurfix> A virtual webserver at ubuntu-uk org with email and a MoinMoin wiki (plus shell login)
<mako> smurfix: yeah, i don't have the access yet.. i'm waiting for something to change.. a new mailserver or something
<mkde> hmm
<JohnDong> mako: the e-mail's sent
<mkde> that sounds like more than necessary
<trulux> I'm off like pitti
<Riddell> I think ubuntu-uk.org should just point to the wiki page
<trulux> I cant stand up to 06:00am like yesterday
<mkde> a corner in the main wiki would do it I think, main thing is a ML
<mako> JohnDong: nice, thanks
<Riddell> mkde: yep
<smurfix> It's the setup most locos are happy with. A few have installed a forum (smf).
<mkde> smurfix, its a very cool layout for stuff in another language, but any uk team would really have advocacy as its main focus i imagine
<mkde> separate wiki and webspace might be wasted a bit
<jsgotangco> when stuff are moved to linode, you can do anything you want
<xuzo> good night
<smurfix> mkde: take from that setup whatever you need
<Riddell> mkde: every country has ubuntu-xx.org so it would be expected to have something at -uk
<Mithrandir> -uk is ukraine. :P
<mkde> Riddell, *grins* yes fair enough
<mkde> Mithrandir, apparently ukraine is -ua
<Riddell> I'll send smurfix my key and put a link to the wiki there
<mkde> Riddell, cool
<Mithrandir> mkde: depends on the language-vs-country code distinction, but yes.
<Riddell> mkde: UbuntuGBPlusKamionTeam ?
<mkde> cc = ua lang = uk?
<mkde> awww
<smurfix> jsgotangco: I'd like to keep the common case on one single sever though, that takes way fewer resources
<mkde> Riddell, appropriate http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BritishTeam and rename it to UK
<mkde> smurfix, we should investigate an ubuntu-it.org i suppose
<mkde> Riddell, i'll mail jdub about the ML
<Riddell> mkde: set up a daily cron job to e-mail jdub :)
<Seveas> rofl
<mkde> Riddell, point taken
<mkde> Riddell, rephrase
<mkde> i'll bug him on here
<mkde> i bet he's up now
* smurfix needs to fall asleep now
<smurfix> Night everybody
* smurfix waves
<jsgotangco> smurfix, night
<ogra> night smurfix 
<mkde> night smurfix 
<\sh> g'night gentlemen..
<smurfix> Riddell: got your email but the key's broken (bad line wrapping?). Please re-send as an attachment.
<jsgotangco> mako, ping?
<mkde> Riddell, you would be ok with admin of the ML if he is up for it?
<Riddell> mkde: sure
<mkde> wicked
<mkde> Riddell, i'm matt btw
<jsgotangco> pleased to meet you matt
* mkde slaps jsgotangco 
<mkde> :)
<jsgotangco> i want to sleep but i can't
<Riddell> mkde: hi matt :)
<mkde> know the feeling
<mkde> jdub is up
<jsgotangco> umm he should its 10m on his side
<mkde> [01:19:09]  jdub yeah sure
<mkde> [01:19:12]  jdub can you email me? :)
<Riddell> hmm, lots of matts http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki?expr=Matt
<mkde> Riddell, can you mail im?
<mkde> Riddell, MatthewEast
<mako> jsgotangco: yes
<mkde> Riddell, that way he can be sure what address you want
<jsgotangco> mako, UbuntuAtConferences we're putting stuff on docteam svn for artwork/brochuers/posters
<Riddell> mkde: ok
<Riddell> I'll go for ubuntu-uk, just to keep Kamion happy :)
<mkde> Riddell, yeah defo
<jsgotangco> mako, this can work short-term but a long-term solution is to have a community-based marketing team just like what OOo does
<jsgotangco> mako, i know you and silbs have been involved in marketing and stuff
<JohnDong> well, guys, I'm ready to call it a night... Physics homework to do
<jsgotangco> but froud thinks its a good idea
<JohnDong> thanks again, and I hope we work out our differences :-)
<mako> jsgotangco: right, and jdub too
<mkde> bye JohnDong 
<jsgotangco> yes and jdub
<jsgotangco> mako, thoughts?
<mako> jsgotangco: ok, there are a couple issues here
<mako> jsgotangco: we totally support the stuff you guys are doing for artwork, brochures, etc
<mako> jsgotangco: i think, if we can figure out who can ship that stuff out, canonical can probablyh arrange to print some of that stuff and ship it out to people
<mako> maybe with cds, i'm not sure
<mako> or find some way to fund stuff in the countries where it happens,
<mako> i'm not sure what the best way is going to be
<mako> this is a discussion we should probably ultimately have with jane
<mako> but that's *very* cool that you guys are doing this
<mako> can i check this out of the docteam svn now?
<jsgotangco> yes i think jane should be part of this
<jsgotangco> mako, we've yet to upload stuff try in a few days
<jsgotangco> have to resize as well
* mako was just updating his svn
<mako> wow.. it's been a while
<mkde> *laughs*
<mako> still going
<jsgotangco> yes
<mako> ok, done :)
<jsgotangco> we
<jsgotangco> stuff is supposed to be in artwork folder
<jsgotangco> but i think the problem lies on the look and feel of such materials
<jsgotangco> that's why before, i asked if there was artwork from the CDs
<mako> jsgotangco: so what i can do to help you?
<mako> did nobody get back about that stuff?
<jsgotangco> nope
<mako> ok.. let me raise this again
<jsgotangco> the only artwork we have are logos
<jsgotangco> other than that, just hack stuff and pull from the hoary cd sleeve look
<jsgotangco> as for booth dimensions and stuff, let me pull up a wiki later
<jsgotangco> (froud had a booth in linuxworld za so he has some ideas)
<mako> yes, that might be a good deal
<mako> jsgotangco: i'm writing up a message to jane and you right now
<jsgotangco> ok
<tseng> you definately want to talk to andyfitz about artwork / look and feel stuff
<tseng> and mpt
<tseng> sorry if that already came up
<mako> jsgotangco: sent
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> mako, it can't be helped, ubuntu paraphernalia should be consistent as well even if its done by community
<jsgotangco> unless canonical wants to outsource it to an adfirm
<jsgotangco> we had a discussion before about a huge poster that can be passed around conference after conference
<jsgotangco> this is possible if we make a full bleed print backdrop
<jsgotangco> i've done something like this before years ago
<mako> jsgotangco: why don't you follow up with that idea to the email that i just send to you, jane and jeff
<jsgotangco> right
<kassetra> well, I have a lot of experience in the print world, if you need any help.
<jsgotangco> ill dump them in a wiki
<mako> kassetra: might be good.. you plugged into the doc team?
<kassetra> Not yet?
<kassetra> I have 15 years of experience in graphic design / print / design work...
<mkde> discussion is not on the list yet
<kassetra> not to mention UI stuffs.  :)
<jsgotangco> wow that would really help
<jsgotangco> you can just drop by at #ubuntu-doc anytime
<kassetra> oh ok.  :)
<jbailey> Kamion, elmo: Eh?  Timezone problem?
<Kamion> jbailey: huh?
<jbailey> Kamion elmo: iz glibc bug
<jbailey> And the closest history I can find is:
<jbailey> <elmo> kamion: dude, fix that belfast time zone thing already :p
<Kamion> jbailey: elmo's complaining about the Europe/Belfast time zone existing, given that it's the same as Europe/London
<Kamion> jbailey: I was observing that the installer just shows all the time zones it can find, it doesn't care whether some of them are identical
<Kamion> actually I think it's reasonable for that timezone to exist in glibc, and since it's there it probably needs to stay there, but I can't think of a good way to make the installer not show it without just hardcoding an enormous blacklist
<jsgotangco> hmmm a lot of that can be seen in se asian/north asian countries with the same timezone
<jsgotangco> beijing, taiwan, hk, malaysia, singapore, even perth
<Kamion> well there are plenty of cases where you might not know that you had the same time zone as some neighbouring country
<Kamion> so having multiple entries is reasonable
<Kamion> London/Belfast is different there because people do know they're the same (or at least I hope they do)
<jsgotangco> ahh right
<Kamion> shrug, I don't know what the right answer is
<Simira> who are the LiveCD-people?
<mvo> Simira: that's mdz, Kamion, amu. the most busy ones :)
<Simira> ah, right
<Simira> should have guessed that :p
<Treenaks> the "liveliest" ones? :)
<Simira> geee... I sent an "Ubuntu Norway exists"-mail to a handful og LUGs last night (during the CC meeting), and I've already got about 15 answers...
<Simira> I'm drowning
<Simira> does mako@canonical work?
<Kamion> yes
<Simira> I've been reading and answering LUG mails to Ubuntu Norway for three hours now...
<Treenaks> Simira: wow..
* Treenaks wonders why there are no LUGs in .nl
<Treenaks> or, none that I know of, anyway
<Riddell> Treenaks: there are LUGs in .nl, (and this is a conversation of #ubuntu-devel)
<Simira> we wouldn't interrupt their discussion, would we?
<Simira> Treenaks: they pop up everywhere!
<Treenaks> Riddell: there's the NLLGG, that's it afaik
<Simira> I need a secretary
<Treenaks> Simira: you have Mithrandir 
<Simira> Treenaks: Canonical pays him better than I can...
<Simira> in money, at least
<Treenaks> Simira: you have a secret weapon
<Treenaks> exactly :)
<Simira> Treenaks: but I'd need food to be able to do all this work as well
<JanC> Kamion : different timezone entries for countries that seem to be in the same timezone are probably for historic reasons
<JanC> in the past daylight saving time was not harmonized...
<JanC> or better: less harmonized
<Kamion> that has never been the case for London and Belfast to my knowledge
<JanC> even if it was only for 1 year, there would have been the need for a separate entry...   :)
<JanC> and there is also nationalism of course
<sladen> JanC: I suppose you could let people choose whether Taiwan is part of China or not...
<JanC> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-29
<highvoltage> @schedule johannesburg
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Africa/Johannesburg: 30 May 18:00: Community Council | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<highvoltage> EdgyEft: seveas :)
<airjump> hello
<highvoltage> dude
<zul> heylo
<Meyer> @schedule Brazil/East
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Brazil/East: 30 May 13:00: Community Council | 31 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 10:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 17:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 18:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 10:30: Xubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-30
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 30 May 18:00: Community Council | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu
<zul> @schedule Canada/Montreal
<zul> @schedule America/Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 30 May 12:00: Community Council | 31 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu
<Seveas> zul, it works without prefix too
<Seveas> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 30 May 12:00: Community Council | 31 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu
<zul> ah cool
<Seveas> @schedule Amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 30 May 18:00: Community Council | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu
<kaiSVK> hi all
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 30 May 18:00: Community Council | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 30 May 19:00: Community Council | 31 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 23:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 16:30: Xubuntu
<ompaul> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 30 2006, 14:46:15
<msikma> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 30 2006, 15:15:04
<Klaidas> if my clock's correct, meeting starts in 45 minutes?
<jenda> Looks like it...
<msikma> Too bad the meeting starts right after I'm supposed to be leaving work.
<thierryn> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 30 2006, 15:45:09
<GNAM> @now Rome
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<msikma> Tsk.
<GNAM> .
<msikma> @now Amsterdam
<Ubugtu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<Seveas> I'm working on the bot
<Seveas> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<Seveas> @now amsterdam
<Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: May 30 2006, 17:53:40 Current meeting: Community Council 
<ompaul> @now utc
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 30 2006, 15:56:03 Current meeting: Community Council 
<msikma> It's time.
<thierryn> great
<Seveas> mako, elmo, Kamion: ping
<jsgotangco> is it a good time?
<Seveas> good time for what?
* Yagisan doubts the devs have time to do the meeting this close to release
<Seveas> this one shouldn't take too long
<ogra> Seveas, we're in the middle of building/testing the final isos ...
<Seveas> ogra, right
<ogra> doesnt look like a good time for a meeting
<Seveas> I didn't schedule this meeting, they did that themselves
<thierryn> ok, so what's happening, will there be a meeting or not?
<eyequeue> (if relevant, the community councit meeting is to start in 1 minute)
<ogra> Seveas, you mean they forgot to cancel it themselves ? 
<Seveas> ogra, call it what you want to call it
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> eyequeue: there wouldn't be any meeting if there is no council present ;)
<Kamion> elmo and I are in the London office here; elmo's trying to get hold of mako
<eyequeue> jsgotangco, this happened to me the last time :(
<highvoltage> good evening, CC!
<Seveas> Kamion, cool, how'bout the sabdfl?
<elmo> mako's on his way
<azeem> mako had his wedding party last night
<elmo> sabdfl sends his apologies
<azeem> whoa!
<jenda> congrats to mako then ;)
<eyequeue> aspirin to mako then :)
<mhz> hmm, sorry for being so lost..still have meeting even with release stress?
<ogra> looks like
<msikma> I have one issue that I'd like to bring up if there is time for it.
<Kamion> mhz: in retrospect we probably ought to have cancelled, but it's too late now
<Kamion> msikma: ?
<msikma> It's related to the Ubuntu wiki's contents set to be released into the public domain soon.
<mhz> Kamion: oh, right :D
<Yagisan> msikma: I have an opinion on that too
<msikma> I mentioned this in response to the mail that was sent about it, and was told to bring it up in this meeting.
<Kamion> msikma: that's already on the agenda
<Kamion> and will be discussed.
<msikma> Yeah, okay.
<Seveas> msikma, please wait until mako arrives
<Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<msikma> Yeah, I put it there.
<mako> greetings
<msikma> Hi mako
<Kamion> ah, excellent
<gnomefreak> congrats mako 
<jsgotangco> congrats :D
<msikma> Congrats?
<Seveas> mako: Congratulations!
<mako> yes, sorry for being late.. i was up late last night getting married :)
<eyequeue> congrats
<Seveas> mako, lame excuse ;)
<msikma> You got married? Congratulations :)
<highvoltage> mako: yes, congrats!
<thierryn> congratulations!
<mhz> mako: congrats! welcome to the club!
<Seveas> anyway: let's get started and not hold up the release team
<mako> yes, definitely
<azeem> mako: congrats
<msikma> What's first on the agenda?
<Seveas> msikma's item is up first, about wiki licensing
<msikma> Aha, great.
<Seveas> I assume everyone has read the agenda
<Kamion> so, we had a brief discussion in the office about that (since we wanted to get Mark's opinion too)
<msikma> Yeah, about wiki licensing. Like mentioned, I've got some concerns about the content on the wiki. It's great that it is set to be released into the public domain, but I question how it would work for things put on there (code snippets, images, etc.) that the author doesn't want to or can't formally release into PD.
<Kamion> (we'd like to get mdke in too, but apparently he's not here)
<Kamion> I think we'd be OK with PD as a default with exceptions, if that's sanely implementable in the wiki
<Seveas> idle time close to 2.5 hours, he's likely not around
* Yagisan isn't happy with PD
<Kamion> Yagisan: unfortunately there is nothing that makes everyone happy
<msikma> On Wikipedia, it's easy to simply put a different copyright notice in an image or other inclusion.
<Kamion> (I wanted MIT personally, but ...)
<msikma> This same system isn't currently in the wiki system we use and would have to be programmed in if this is a solution.
<highvoltage> heh, how relevant, we discussed this on #edubuntu today too.
<Kamion> do you have any idea how much code that would be?
<msikma> I personally don't have a clue, since I've never seen the source code for that wiki system. I'm also not really a PHP hacker.
<Seveas> it's python ;) (moinmoin)
<msikma> Aha
* Yagisan was happy with the CC-BY-SA. Otherwise I'd never have contributed. It is exactly like asking me to re-license my GPL code to BSD
<Seveas> Yagisan, the license has been chosen - this discussion is NOT about which icense to use
<Seveas> please stay on topic
<elmo> Seveas: err, easy dude
<Kamion> Seveas: stop it, he's not advocating a particular licence, he's saying he doesn't like this choice - which is relevant 
<mhz> regarding code...it shouldn't be that much...even just replacing one image fro another would work a patch solution
<Seveas> elmo: just trying not to go offtopic and keeping you from reease stuff too long
<msikma> The problem lies not in the license, but rather the fact that confusion may arise due to such things. At the very least, the license should read "all text in this wiki is released into the PD" rather than "all content".
<Kamion> Seveas: we'll be faster if we don't have to have meta-arguments
<mako> PD is problematic
<mako> because the concept of public domain is not easily internationable
<jsgotangco> true
<mako> which is why the creative commons public domain dedication is the one license that is *not* part of hte icommons translations and internationalizations
<msikma> Maybe include a "if this is not legally possible, the authors waive all rights", mako?
<Kamion> mako: we did discuss that, btw - see WikiLicensing
* mako nods
<Kamion> or for that matter the e-mail that went out
<Yagisan> Seveas: thanks. I was on topic, but that settles it. license revoked of all my work then as this happens far to often. The cange is a step back that can't be enforced.
<Kamion> Yagisan: please ignore Seveas
<msikma> In any case: if, for example, all wikicode were licensed as PD, there would likely not be a problem since that way you can still include images in pages with a different copyright.
<Kamion> Yagisan: this is not settled
<msikma> You'd only be releasing the text of the link into the PD rather than the image.
<msikma> But that's something a legal expert should confirm!
<mako> ok.. the wikimedia text looks nice
<msikma> All the PD images on Wikipedia, for example, also say "In case PD is not legally possible, all rights are waived."
<msikma> (Paraphrased.)
<Kamion> (the problem with CC-BY-SA, and most copylefts, FWIW, was licence compatibility and incorporation into documentation in the distro and stuff)
<mako> right, a more permissiable license, BSD style for example, would solve that
<mako> even the CC-BY license would solve that
<mako> because it allows sublicensing
<msikma> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-self
<Kamion> mako: I'm with you, but I'm not keen on going over it again and again, particularly since we did do this in a previous meeting and we don't have mdke here
<eyequeue> point of clarification: is this discussion about default licensure?  there is still an option for the author to "unless specified as ___" correct? [y/n]  (rather than waiving)
<Kamion> I think you were in the previous meeting too :)
<msikma> Quoting: "I grant any entity the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law."
<msikma> eyequeue: yeah, that's the discussion.
<msikma> We should prevent license confusion.
<Kamion> in any event: I think we (FSVO we, Mark said he would be happy with this anyway) are happy for individuals to pick a different licence from the default as long as it's clearly marked so that people know what they're doing when they're borrowing wiki content for documentation
<msikma> The thing is, it's difficult to enforce people to do that.
<mako> Kamion: i'm not really thrilled with that
<msikma> Will they have to copypaste something whenever they want to release something in CC-BY-NC, for example?
<mako> i mean, it would be fine as long as we set some default limit or base set of expectations
<msikma> There are no templates in the wiki system we're using (unless I've simply never FOUND them before).
<Kamion> mako: it does make things more complicated but I cannot see that any single option is going to keep even the majority of contributors happy
<mako> Kamion: that's fine.. but we should ensure a base line
<Kamion> oh, yeah, limiting to "free-ish" licences obviously ...
<mako> Kamion: so you can waive or not waive attribution, but you shouldn't block commericial use
<msikma> A system like on Wikipedia works very well, but it would take time to program this in.
<Yagisan> Kamion: do you have a link (perhaps after meeting) on why CC-BY-SA isn't suitable
<highvoltage> blocking commercial use would make it a non-free license, yes.
<mako> Kamion: also, that is not part of the proposal AFAICT
<msikma> In any case, regardless of the license we'll use, we need to find some (easy) way to ensure people won't accidentally release their works into the public domain.
<msikma> I believe that not licensing images by default and stating that all content is PD "unless otherwise stated" is the key to doing this.
<Kamion> Yagisan: as I understand it, it's neither GPL-compatible nor GFDL-compatible
<gnomefreak> is this gonna change the way wikis are handled in making or contributing to wikis?
<msikma> What is this discussion about? The license we'll use or legal rights confusion? The latter is on the agenda.
<Kamion> mako: not at the moment, but the proposal clearly needs some work based on the objections received at community-council@ IMO
<mako> the GFDL/CC-BY-SA compatibility situation might change
<msikma> mako: that will affect later versions of the CC licenses, not the ones there are now.
<mako> as in, folks are both sides are interested in solving that problem and working on it
<mako> msikma: that's correct
<mako> but almost all works, and concievably these too, would be under an "or any later version" clause
<Yagisan> msikma: there is confusion with PD. it isn't recognised in all countries. something like a CC license is (TTBOMK).
<Kamion> that's not something we would be wise to rely on IMO
<msikma> In any case, I don't think we should be discussing which license we're going to use.
<msikma> That's a different discussion.
<msikma> I would be fine with many different free licenses.
<msikma> My point is that it's not always useful to license everything into one specific license since this isn't always possible.
<Kamion> --> any possible licence we might choose will have objectors <--
<mako> Kamion: that's right, and there's no timescale
<mako> msikma: and not everyone is happy contributing in a wiki at all, which is why we have multiple sources of documentation
<mako> and even multiple wikis!
<msikma> As far as I know, we're not discussing licenses, but rather we're discussing how we can prevent people from accidentally releasing things into the PD that they shouldn't.
<Kamion> the wikilicensing proposal already requires displaying a prominent notice
<msikma> But this would mean that, for example, you can't post GPL code snippets in the wiki, or post screenshots of themes or icon sets that are non-PD licensed.
<Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing
<Yagisan> mako: ah, according to the email I got, May 10 (1 month after I recived it) all the wiki goes PD
<Kamion> Yagisan: *under discussion*
<Kamion> ok, let me have a minute to type this
<msikma> Kamion: but isn't it so that if I were to post an image on the Wiki of a CC-licensed background, I would be attempting to release it into the PD?
<msikma> Which is, of course, impossible.
<ompaul> You can split the document and licence each part different, all you need to be is very clear about what you are posting.
<mako> i apologize for not being more actively involved in this discussion recently
<msikma> ompaul: explain. You mean post the image in a separate wikipage?
<Kamion> PROPOSAL: amend WikiLicensing to require implementation of some kind of licence markers in moin for individual pieces of content, and come up with a list of acceptable "free-ish" licences for wiki content from which people can choose; default remains as in the proposal (PD but with the wikimedia text to attempt to deal with internationalisation problems)
<Kamion> msikma: ^--
<Kamion> licence markers would need to be selectable on posting
<msikma> Hmm
<msikma> Before I respond to that, let me make a second proposal.
<mhz> .oO(hmm, my only concern with licensing is that people do not use my contributions for commercial purposes unless they check with me first :) )
<Yagisan> Kamion: I like the idea, but as msikma points out, code, images etc may need a different license
<mako> Kamion: i'm still a little worried about going down that path because i think we're going to get a sort of highest common denominotor any any given article
<Kamion> mhz: that's kind of highly dubious for us since Canonical is a commercial concern
<Kamion> mhz: I think it's a little unreasonable to say that Canonical can't use wiki.ubuntu.com
<mhz> yeah, but we all get 'profit' from it :D
<Kamion> it's still commercial
<mako> Kamion: if one person makes a series of simple changes to many articles and puts them under a more restrictive license, the PD thing becomes moot
<msikma> PROPOSAL: amend WikiLicensing to mention how all wikicode is released into the PD, which means that images are excluded (and targets of links posted in the wikicode, of course), and that this is not so in case another license is mentioned for specific pieces of content (such as code snippets and images).
<msikma> Of course, it should not be possible to license a normal wiki contribution into one of the non-PD licenses.
<mako> Kamion: but if we go that route, i'm happy to help propose a set of licenses that i'm more happy with
<msikma> It should be an exception only for code snippets and images, since those are usually already licensed.
<Kamion> msikma: there are people who find PD for their text equally unacceptable
<Kamion> e.g. Yagisan
<Kamion> (we've had other objections too)
<msikma> But then you'll have a potpourri of licenses that aren't compatible.
<Kamion> well, that's what we have now ...
<msikma> I believe that this exception should only and exclusively go for works that are already licensed.
<msikma> Your wikicontributions will be PD, but a GPL code that someone has written can only remain GPL.
<msikma> That's what I believe will cause the least confusion.
<Kamion> I think we'll have a number of valuable contributors say "well, screw you then"
<msikma> If some people disagree with the PD, then this should be brought up in a separate discussion.
<Yagisan> msikma: well then thanks for unilaterally relicensing my work
<msikma> Yagisan: I'd be fine with GFDL as well. I'd also be fine with licensing everything "after June 1" or something similar.
<Yagisan> msikma: there is a happy compromise. trhat is choice
<mhz> what if people NOT happy with current results of licensing have the chance to wipe out his contribs. from wiki?
<msikma> This isn't the license that I'm discussing, but rather the legal confusion that might arise.
<Kamion> msikma: many people who write a lot of documentation don't recognise that their work should be treated differently from code
<msikma> Kamion: again, I'd be fine with GFDL.
<msikma> I don't care about which free license is used.
<ompaul> Let us be very clear, PD means that if someone alters something then they can claim ownership and restrict access to that version. That means that someone could come to the page remove lots of the text there declare it immutable then where are you.
<msikma> I only care about the fact that there might be legal confusion if we try to license everything on the wiki.
<msikma> ompaul: that's not what this discussion is about. I understand the concerns, but let's address them in a separate discussion.
<Yagisan> msikma: the wiki was already licensed. It was a CC-BY-SA
<msikma> Then let's keep it that way.
* Yagisan has the edubuntu wiki in mind
<msikma> But I doubt that it's a good idea to relicense everything under that license that's posted on the wiki.
<msikma> Especially for artwork discussions.
<jenda> It's not legally possible to relicense everything.
<Yagisan> msikma: as you say, some things like code, and images may need different licenses
<mako> msikma: i'd like to see a strong argument for artwork on the wiki being treated differently
<Mithrandir> let content dragged in from elsewhere (and with a source reference) to have a diverging licence, then?
<mako> msikma: not here
<mako> msikma: or now, but in writing
<mako> msikma: if one exists, please point me to it
<msikma> jenda: you can say that everything after a certain date is licensed differently, if that license is compatible with the old one.
<mako> msikma: otherwise, point me to it when it does
<msikma> mako: thing is, some people license their artwork under a license incompatible with BY-SA. Such as BY-SA-NC. You cannot relicense such works, even though the license notifier would imply such a thing if you were to post the image.
<msikma> The concern is the same with, for example, GFDL content or GPL code.
<msikma> I really wish that I could stay around longer, but my work stopped over half an hour ago and we're closing down the studio.
<msikma> I'm glad that I could voice my concerns and I hope that they'll be considered.
<msikma> I personally am fine with contributing under any free license.
<jenda> Exactly - but that would be solved by saying that all is licenced under license X unless stated otherwise.
<msikma> All I want is to avoid legal difficulties or confusion.
<elmo> umm, JOOI, how much GPL code do we have in the ubuntu wiki that isn't covered by fairuse?
<msikma> jenda: yes, but it would also need to be easy to mention a different license.
<elmo> I can understand the image/attachment concern, but embedding GPL code seems like a fairly, err, esoteric use case
<jenda> elmo: fairuse doesn't allow you to claim a different license
<mako> jenda: i don' think that is what he meant
<msikma> I'll talk to you later. Thanks for listening, and bye.
<elmo> jenda: fair use, in this context, means it's small enough to not be covered by the GPL
<Yagisan> elmo: what about embedding scripts ?
<jenda> Yes, but posting it in a wiki (which claims all content is PD or other) is violating the GPL, albeit on a tiny level. Anyway, I did'nt want to press the issue further. I think it would be solved if posters simply mentioned that the following snippet is GPL and the wiki only claimed PD 'when not otherwise'.
<Yagisan> I'm not sure if all counties have the same idea if fairuse either
<mako> alright
<mako> this discussion seems to have lost steam
<jsgotangco> Yagisan: i agree
<Kamion> jenda: no matter what, I think "if not otherwise stated" is a sane approach
<jenda> I agree.
<Yagisan> I'm concerned. Is the mass-relicense to still go ahead ?
<jenda> And a reminder somewhere to mention external licences.
<mako> so, what's the protocal/plan for moving forward?
<Kamion> Yagisan: AIUI some mass change will still go ahead, but not steamrollering those who object (i.e. objections will be taken into account in some form, whether it be by choosing a different approach to mass-relicensing, or by creating individual exceptions, or by letting people create their own individual exceptions for bits of content)
<mhz> Kamion: +1 !
<thierryn> ok, so is it all the arguments for this point?
* Yagisan is happy with the ability to select an appropriate "free" license(s) depending on content. I understand canaonical may wish to use any documentation I've contributed, the existing license should allow that.
* mhz is happy for Yagisan 
<mhz> :)
<jenda> It seems everyone is happy, except for the Ubuntu IRC team...
<mhz> LOL
<mako> alright
<mako> lets move on
<thierryn> k
<mako> so
<mako> a number of IRC ops want a list to coordinate IRC related matters
<jenda> ping Seveas ompaul
<ompaul> that is correct
<mako> would it be open?
<Seveas> yes
<gnomefreak> yep
<ompaul> it has to be
<mako> well, it doesn't *have* to be
<mako> i mean, i think it should be :)
<Seveas> it would be for things-to-discuss-in-non-realtime
<ompaul> mako, point
<mako> open to posting and to subscription?
<Seveas> I'd prefer that
<eyequeue> (and archives?)
<Seveas> completely open, like any other community list
<gnomefreak> only thing about open is spamming how do we prevent it?
<Kamion> (sorry, I was away; we'll talk to mdke about the output of the previous discussion and try to get something concrete organised)
<Seveas> gnomefreak, subscription  required
<Kamion> gnomefreak: same as any other ubuntu lists
<gnomefreak> ok
<mako> Kamion: yes, that sounds right
<Kamion> I've got no problem with an ubuntu-irc list; elmo?
<Kamion> d'oh, elmo just walked out of the office
<Seveas> heh
<elmo> what's the policy on it?
<elmo> open subscription, open archives, etc.?
<Seveas> elmo, as open as possible
<elmo> ok, then no problem
<mako> that sounds fine then
<eyequeue> can anyone raise reason for objections?  and is this for all #ubuntu-* channels on freenode? (scope)
<Seveas> eyequeue, twice yes
<eyequeue> i have no objections :) was wondering if others could think of any :)
<elmo> ok, next?
<Seveas> pschulz01 is next
<Seveas> (member candidate)
* pschulz01 is here
<Seveas> pschulz01, your 3-liner please
<pschulz01> Please refer to my Wikipage, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz
<pschulz01> but in summary.
<pschulz01> Ubuntu Highlights: Handing out CD's at conference (sponsored by Linux
<pschulz01> Australia). Bug submissions to Dapper. Various Wikipages addition's edits.
<pschulz01> Working towards Ubuntu community tools/resourses for Australians.
<pschulz01> Linux Highlights: Involvement in LCA2004 (organiser). Small (trivial)
<pschulz01> patch accepted into Linux kernel.
<pschulz01> (Is that what you're after?)
<Seveas> sort of
<Seveas> reading wikipage now
<Kamion> heh, about half of the VmWare page just became obsolete
<elmo> any other .au team guys around/awake?
* pschulz01 pokes #ubuntu-au
<shenki> hello :)
<elmo> shenki: can you bouche for pschulz?
<elmo> vouch too
<shenki> vouch? yes
<shenki> he's been getting in touch wiht the education department in the state where we live in, with intentions of getting ed(ubuntu) in local schools here
<elmo> pschulz01: how long have you been involved in Ubuntu?
<pschulz01> Since breezy..
<pschulz01> distributing, and promoting locally.
<mako> there's not a lot of documentation on the wiki
<mako> which, if your contributions are mostly working with the loco teams, makes sense
<pschulz01> Spoke with Smurf about starting a Loco when he was in Canberra in 2005 for LCA.
<pschulz01> It has only recently taken off.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i got asked to come and vouch, sorry i missed the first half
<jsgotangco> its good the see team AU awake at this time!
<Seveas> @now adelaid
<Seveas> @now adelaide
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Adelaide: May 31 2006, 02:42:49 - Current meeting: Community Council 
<shenki> oh? i thought we were boucheing... making the notch cut in the top (dexter) corner of a shield, to rest the lance when jousting
<pschulz01> I put together soem CD artwork for TheOpenCD 3.0.. which was used to distribute locally.
<mako> pschulz01: in terms of direct contribution to ubuntu, you only have 3 wiki pages on the wiki
<mako> and not a lot of visible activity on LP
<mako> if your contributions are primarily through the loco, it would be good to have more people from the loco here to vouch for the work that you've been doing
<mako> they can be in writing, on the page
* jenda mutters about 2 o'clock in the morning
<mako> maybe you can do that in the next couple weeks?
<Kamping_Kaiser> mako, its between 3.15 and 1am here
<Kamping_Kaiser> (depending on state)
<mako> Kamping_Kaiser: right, that's why i'm suggesting waiting until next meeting
<Yagisan> it's actually 3:30am here
<mako> next meeting will be earlier
<pschulz01> Happy to wait... 
<shenki> mako, as someone who would be intrested in membership myself, what are you looking for? the wiki mentions 'contributions to the community', in what ways are you looking for?
<mako> shenki: wiki pages are fine, but i'd like to see more than three of them
<mako> shenki: high karma and a bunch of visible contributions to the bts work
<mako> lots of participation on mailing lists
<mako> patches, maintained packages
<mako> testimonials from events planned and executed
<mako> etc etc
<shenki> okay. do ubunutforums.com count?
<mako> shenki: yes
<mako> definitely
<shenki> cheers
<Kamping_Kaiser> mako, so 'easily trackable' community stuff?
<mako> Kamping_Kaiser: if you can make the not easily trackable stuff also visible, that's fine too
<mako> we don't require easily trackable things
<mako> we just require documentation
<jenda> (but "I pray for Ubuntu every night" not good enough?)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok. thats fair.
* shenki notes to take photos of beer drinking at launch party thurs
<mako> jenda: that's right
<Yagisan> mako: (after meeting if more appropriate) what about ubuntu based research projects ? eg sec work
<mako> Yagisan: that's fine, as long as its visible and directly benefits the community
<mako> and constitutes work on ubuntu
<Yagisan> mako: yeah. been working on it since UDU
<mako> alright
<mako> we should move on
<mako> unless pschulz01 or the other CC members object
<pschulz01> Please see top of my Wiki page for addition Wikipages that I have been working on..
<pschulz01> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz
<mako> pschulz01: it's not a rejection, but i'd personally feel more comfortable with a little more documentation and testimonials
<mako> pschulz01: i'm looking at that page
<pschulz01> In particuler: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/ConnectingUp06
* mako nods
<mako> that's great :)
* pschulz01 leaves membership in the hands of the CC.
<mhz> well, gotta go. Sorry. Bye all! Good luck to those 'waiting-to-become-approved'
<thierryn> any other points for pschulz01?
<shenki> just a point i'd like to make: he's one of the people un ubuntu-au taking lead
<shenki> for example, in the 'meeting' tonight, it was mostly school age kids - nothing wrong with that - but it degraded into a chat about what tv tuner cards people used
<mako> listen, i don't doubt that
<shenki> he's one of the more ...responsible (the right words dont come to mind at 3am:) ones
<mako> but that is exactly what we should have a set of testimonials saying
<mako> shenki: i'm glad you're here and it helps
<shenki> ok
<mako> shenki: but i'd like to see that from a few more people in the community
<mako> and especially from existing members
<shenki> yeah, i guess that's an issue... the ubunut-au 'comminuty' seems to be a majority the work of paul, after the inital excitement died down (unubut-au is only a few months old)
<pschulz01> I did send an email to jdub...
<shenki> but yeah, just thought those points needed to be made. see you at the next meeting :)
<mako> pschulz01: ok.. lets see if we can poke him
<mako> pschulz01: that would be very helpful
<mako> you can talk to me during the next couple weeks
<pschulz01> Ok.
<mako> we've already had the conversation so it should be simple once we build up a little more documentation
<mako> alright
<pschulz01> Thank you everyone for listening.
<thierryn> next pointt?
<mako> lets move on
<Seveas> next point is you thierryn 
<thierryn> k
<thierryn> you can take a look at my wiki page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryMoisan
<mako> we should try to pick up the pace
<mako> i need to leave soon
<thierryn> in general, I've been working with linux since around 2001.
<Seveas> how long have you been working on Ubuntu?
<thierryn> I'm using ubuntu since warty
<Kamion> any comments from MOTU/desktop folks on thierryn?
<seb128> he's around for some time and has some good willing
<thierryn> by working you mean helping with bugs?... I think around 1 year  or more
<seb128> I've review mostly small patches like desktop files fixing
<thierryn> I'm not a very experienced programmer so I try to fix simple bugs so that advanced programmers can work on important stuff
<thierryn> I'm also french-canadian so I'm sometime work on the french traduction
* Seveas has to leave, by all
<thierryn> I sometimes*
<Seveas> by*
<Seveas> bye* (damn, something's stuck under the keyboard)
<thierryn> anything else you want to know?
<thierryn> I also packaged libfxscintilla for dapper
<mako> great
<mako> any other testimonials for thierryn 
<mako> ?
<thierryn> make : well I don't really have anyone on the french team...
<thierryn> mako : there was siretart who had advocated my package but he couldn't be there today
<thierryn> mako : I'm poking LaserJock to come...
<thierryn> LaserJock : hi
<LaserJock> hi thierryn 
<bddebian> Awfully quiet in here for a meeting. :-)
<thierryn> LaserJock : if you could say some words about me I would be grateful
<LaserJock> now?
<thierryn> yeah
<thierryn> mako is waiting to get testimonials about me and my work for ubuntu
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I've known thierryn for quite some time now
<bddebian> Are you SURE mako is here? :-)
<jenda> yes ;)
<LaserJock> he has helped out around -motu and has done quite a bit of work on the .desktop charge
<mako> yes, i'm here
<LaserJock> he seems to have a slow and steady approach to Ubuntu and I think he has been a pretty solid contributor to Universe
<mako> alright
<bddebian> I have seen some of Thierry's desktop work as well
<mako> there's a decent amount of contributions over a long period of time
<mako> i'm happy with membership
<mako> elmo, Kamion: ?
<Kamion> yep, fine by me (sorry for inactivity, I'm busy with release testing here)
<mako> i need to run
* eyequeue is here ... what now?
<thierryn> mako, kamion : thanks :D
<Kamion> eyequeue missed out last time too, I think
<eyequeue> Kamion, indeed
<mako> eyequeue: i've looked at your page
<Kamion> aha, but we can get sabdfl in
<eyequeue> mako, thanks
<mako> eyequeue: i see 3 bugs reported and not a lot of other things
<mako> your link to the forum didn't work
<sabdfl> hi all
<elmo> (thierryn is fine by me too)
<Kamion> thierryn: could you visit https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+join pleasse?
<eyequeue> mako, those links there doesn't whow what they did when written? :(
<Kamion> please
<bddebian> Hello sabdfl
<mako> eyequeue: also, it seems a little irregular to have your real name set to Eye Queue on your key
<eyequeue> well, here's the 3line, though not sure how it helps
<eyequeue> Evangelical installs, Varied generalized support since January 2005 (irc/forums/wiki/telephone/offline), bug reports, overall attempts to honour Code of Conduct (even apart from Ubuntu-related matters) health permitting
<sabdfl> i'm tag-teaming mako, apparently :-)
<mako> unless that is, in fact, your legal name
<mako> sabdfl: yes, someone is delivering books cases to my home in half an hour, i should probalby be there
<eyequeue> mako, at this point in my life, i'm too vulnerable to former stalkers, can't open that up publically (though open to suggestions)
<mako> well, that's an interesting question
<eyequeue> mako, so basically i should just give up them?  i'm not a coder/artist/writer, i'm mostly bed-bound these days, so not sure how to document much
<mako> eyequeue: that's fine.. there are lots of ways to contribute
<mako> none of us here see very much of each other :)
<eyequeue> mostly it's been "hand-holding" if you know the term
<mako> that's fine, but we still documentation of that
<mako> through testimonials, etc
<mako> but i really need to run
<thierryn> Kamion : k, I went to the ubuntumembers join web page now I'm waiting approval
<sabdfl> eyequeue: the criteria for membership are deliberately defined in very broad terms to encourage varied kinds of contribution and participation
<mako> i'll leave this to sabdfl, Kamion, and elmo and trust them to make any decision
<mako> see you all!
<bddebian> Later mako
<sabdfl> eyequeue: we're pretty open to stories of how that contribution has been made, it just needs to be sustained and substantial
<eyequeue> i don't have any testimonials,. unless i start asking $ubuntu, which i've never seen there so would be weird i think
<ompaul> good luck mako
<sabdfl> cheers mako, see you in Paris
<gnomefreak> bye mako good luck
<sabdfl> eyequeue: in that case perhaps the best plan is to keep doing what you are doing, but keep a record of bits you contribute on your wiki page
<sabdfl> over time, that will turn into a sort of testimonial
<eyequeue> sabdfl, "helped foo today; helped bar today"?
<sabdfl> and in five to eight weeks, knock here again
<jenda> eyequeue: IRC logs, more like...
<sabdfl> sure, especially if you do so in public forums and can point to logs or co-contributors
<eyequeue> lol, i don't have the 8 weeks, but thanks
<sabdfl> eyequeue: it's not a race, ubuntu will be here forever, we hope ;-)
<gnomefreak> eyequeue: im always around if you need help with anything
<eyequeue> thanks for the offer gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> yw
<eyequeue> sabdfl, i hope it will too, and here's my chance for a public thank you for all you've done :)
<sabdfl> you are most welcome - thanks for your energy and contribution so far
<sabdfl> what's next?
<eyequeue> i think that's the end of the meeting (per agenda at least)
<gnomefreak> i think most of the CC is tied up with release testing
<sabdfl> ok thanks all
<sabdfl> hold firm - release shortly
<bddebian> w00t!!
* ompaul has an ambitious plan to get 100DVDs out on Thursday night :-)
<ompaul> it should be fun
<gnomefreak> dapper is great ;) cant wait for edgy to hit servers if this is what we have to look foward to ;)
* gnomefreak has to go before it gets too late later everyone
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 31 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<sabdfl> just to confirm publicly - based on a review by elmo and myself of eyequeue's details we are +1 for him on membership
<bddebian> Great
<rolando> hello
<rolando> I need help, can anyone help me please
<lucas> it's not the right place for help. try #ubuntu
<rolando> Well, it`s about the meeting
<rolando> I wanna know at what time will be, 
<bddebian> rolando: Which meeting?
<rolando> CommunityCouncilAgenda
<rolando> The next meeting of the Council will be at [WWW]  30 May 2006, 16:00 UTC on #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net
<rolando> But i`m in venezuela, then I don't know what time will be
<lucas> @schedule Venezuela
<rolando> Please sorry for my poor english, i have a better Technical English :S
<thierryn> rolando : you can also get UTC time by googling
<rolando> Cool
<bddebian> rolando: You just missed it :-(
<rolando> Whao! Yeap I miss it :(
<rolando> Well, I'm triying to attend since Hoary :(
<lucas> rolando: there are logfiles available
<rolando> But how I works in a Philantropic Institution, I miss it every time
<rolando> Well, the real Importante it's make the work, I'll translate more and work more with my TEAM 
<rolando> I hope see you later, Thanks A lot!
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-31
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 31 2006, 00:14:48 - Next meeting: Edubuntu  in 11 hours
<Klaidas> @schedule VIlnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 31 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 23:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 16:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 23:00: Edubuntu
<Seveas> @now shanghai
<Ubugtu> Current time in Asia/Shanghai: May 31 2006, 18:31:58 - Next meeting: Edubuntu  in 1 hours
<GNAM> @schedule Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu
<simira> uh... isn't it cc today?
<Mithrandir> was yesterday
<Klaidas> yup :)
<simira> ah, of course. I am just a bit behind. 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<highvoltage> log-test
<HedgeMage> :)
<flint> JaneW, Good morning.  I am getting on a Jet to DC in a few minutes.  Thus I will miss the balance of this meeting.
<highvoltage> flint: good afternoon, mr flint
<flint> highvoltage, how are you doing Jonathan?
<LaserJock> meeting?
<flint> edubuntu...
<jsgotangco> :D
<LaserJock> awesome
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> holy cow, why are you here HedgeMage?
<JaneW> hi flint
<JaneW> LaserJock: for our edubuntu meeting
<flint> JaneW, wish me luck kiddo... i am outa here see you next meeting...
<highvoltage> flint: i'm doing well thanks. lots of deadlines keeping me on the edge of my seat, but i'm very excited about dapper's release :)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: silly boy :P
<JaneW> 2 mins
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Meeting here in 2 mins
<JaneW> hi all
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<GrumpyPiano> Hey
<JaneW> so it;s the day before the release
<GrumpyPiano> Mhmm cant wait :D
* JaneW is not feeling very talkative today
<JaneW> who has updates?
<ogra> just a word about the CD
<HedgeMage> Hmmm... I don't see pygi so I could update on Cookbook I guess.
* HedgeMage listens to ogra 
<JaneW> ogra: go
<ogra> edubuntu live is gold for all arches and wont change anymore from the 20060531 iso
<ajmitch> excellent :)
<jsgotangco> \o/
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> ogra: more testing needed?
<highvoltage> whohoo!
<JaneW> well done ogra :)
<azeem> ogra: congrats
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> ogra: good job!
<highvoltage> ogra: so edubuntu is the first to get to release point? ogra you deserve a medal :)
<ogra> edubuntu install 20060530.2 which i tested through this night was good as well, there was a minor bugfix which caused a 20060531 iso which needs new testing (but i expect no regressions)
<JaneW> everyone who is going to paris please buy ogra a drink for me!
<HedgeMage> :D and one for me 
<jsgotangco> no he needs a game of bliss after this
<HedgeMage> hehe
<jsgotangco> ;D
<HedgeMage> hi jeffwaddell 
<ogra> edubuntu dvd is problematic, i just finished the tests of the complete set but was offline most of the morning so i didnt know there are new isos (since 30min)
* highvoltage will make sure that ogra never has to pay for beer in paris
* jeffwaddell grumbes about not being that comfortable in Xchat
<JaneW> jsgotangco: with you?
<LaserJock> jeffwaddell: no irssi?
<highvoltage> ogra: what's the problem with the dvd's?
<ogra> during the night i could rsync a dvd in 11mins ... te ETA on the current one is 5.3h
* jsgotangco thinks
<highvoltage> ouch :(
<ogra> which makes 15h for 3 arches
<HedgeMage> ouch.
<JaneW> ogra: and are the CD sizes ok now?
<jsgotangco> eww
<LaserJock> ogra: they really should get a mirror that isn't advertised for devs or something
<jeffwaddell> LaserJock, Xchat is on this ubuntu (yeah!!!) box, don't know if irssi is but know that BitchX is not
<ogra> JaneW, we wouldnt be able to release if there were breakages 
<LaserJock> jeffwaddell: irssi is on by default
<JaneW> ogra: true
<ogra> and we certainly will release all flavors for all arches ;)
<JaneW> ogra: does mdz have to 'sign off' or something?
<JaneW> ogra: great
<ogra> at least thats how it looks atm
<ogra> if i dont fall asleep before i have tested everything ;)
<jeffwaddell> LaserJock, I see that is...having never used it before I wonder if it's more comfortable than xchat
<JaneW> ogra: you feeling finished?
<JaneW> ogra: I hope you aren;t ill too?
* LaserJock sends ogra some caffeine pills to help get Dapper out the door
<JaneW> jeffwaddell: can you discuss that elsewhere please?
<jeffwaddell> janew, yep
<JaneW> ogra: you can crash after you party
<JaneW> pr before if you really have to
<JaneW> ogra: I think you have done GREAT this cycle
<JaneW> thank-you
<ogra> i'm not done yet
<ogra> send your congrats tomorrow after the release 
<ogra> oh, btw if someone could prepare a release announcement, that would rock
<HedgeMage> I could do that I think... just a little "here it is" sort of thing?  how long?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: ..?^^^
<JaneW> ogra: are we announcing them all together?
<ogra> there is surely a template of the ubuntu one on the wiki
<JaneW> HedgeMage: thanks
<jsgotangco> ogra: i thought we're announcing them all at the same time???
<HedgeMage> cool, np
<highvoltage> how about updating the previous release announcement?
* jsgotangco is confused
<HedgeMage> once it's done, where am I putting it?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: good idea ;)
<jsgotangco> HedgeMage: if you can please do, if not, please ping me immediately about it and i could do a 10 minute job again
<ogra> i dont think so for the final announcement
<ogra> highvoltage, the *release* announcement should list all new features over breezy
<ogra> its not like a flight announcement 
* JaneW is looking for an ubuntu announcement
<HedgeMage> ahh okay
<jsgotangco> JaneW: try lwn
<ogra> im pretty sure mgalvin is somehow involved in the ubuntu announcement
* HedgeMage listens and learns and gets ready to write
<highvoltage> ogra: i wasn't talking about a flight announcement, i was suggesting using the previous release announcement as a template
<ogra> the breezy one ? 
<ogra> no that wasnt very good :)
<highvoltage> ok
<jsgotangco> that was a 5 minute job heh
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> well, I have given up on sleep, so I have between now and whenever TT wakes to do it
<ogra> yeah, and worse, it looks like one :)
<HedgeMage> brb
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: please start your 10 minute job, if you have 10 minutes now. even if HedgeMage does it. then we can combine the best of the two?
<highvoltage> this was the old one: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuReleaseAnnouncement
<jsgotangco> sure i have some of the technical improvements on paper somewhere
* jsgotangco starts digging at his pile
<LaserJock> there were technical improvments in Dapper? ;-) j/k
<ogra> the technical improvements were all in the flight announcements
* JaneW can't find anything
<highvoltage> LaserJock: just look at the changelog for ltsp alone ;)
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: lots in LTSP
<ogra> jsgotangco, i merged you a list iirc
<jsgotangco> yeah i have it
<ogra> and mailed it a while ago
* jsgotangco has it now
<JaneW> yikes look at this... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes
<JaneW> "Ubuntu is a Linux distribution aimed for educators to easily deploy and maintain a learning environment" ...??
<jsgotangco> JaneW: that seems to be stale lately
<jsgotangco> original doc i wrote is BreezyReleaseNotes
<JaneW> jsgotangco: but Ubuntu is not specifically for educators at all
<highvoltage> on system requirements, requirements for "LTSP Server" would also be great
<HedgeMage> back
<jsgotangco> it is probably something i wrote without thinking
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> but punting of edubuntu is always good
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: can you toss me that list please?
<JaneW> subliminal advertising
<jsgotangco> HedgeMage: email?
<ogra> highvoltage, the ones from the CD cover
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: hedgemage@binaryredneck.net
<jsgotangco> cool
<highvoltage> ogra: there are ltsp requirements on the CD cover?
<ogra> yes
<highvoltage> ogra: i haven't seen a cd cover for dapper yet. are they public?
<ogra> argh, amd64 install failed ...
<LaserJock> :(
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes
<JaneW> in DiyMarketing
<jsgotangco> HedgeMage: you can look at this too http://lwn.net/Articles/155632/
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: thanks
<JaneW> highvoltage: they are quite nice (if you use a proper pdf viewer)
* jsgotangco haven't seen the covers either
<highvoltage> (docteam) http://help.ubuntu.com/quicktour/C/quicktour.html lists a screenshot of ltsp.org's website next to LTSP
<jsgotangco> hey these are old models
<highvoltage> yeah, ignore that for now, I'll bring the page up in ubuntu-doc later
<JaneW> btw guys I have not heard back from Chrsi Coldwell yet (re that Edubuntu Install Video)
<JaneW> sorry I meant Chris
<jsgotangco> is it required atm?
<highvoltage> meeting still going? :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: well we wanted it on the site
<JaneW> last week it was one of my actions to follow it up
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: yep
<highvoltage> JaneW: it can still go on. we're not bound to release cycles for website updates
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes
<JaneW> highvoltage: although it will be a breezy install
<highvoltage> JaneW: although, it would be nice to have it on there asap when people start installing dapper, i see what you mean
<JaneW> how different is that
<JaneW> *blush* that I don't know
<JaneW> highvoltage: ed zachary
<JaneW> highvoltage: aka exactly
<highvoltage> more or less the same. it's just minor changes as far as i can tell, unless they're using espresso
<JaneW> ubiquity I tihnk it called now
<highvoltage> which is only applicable if they install from livecd
<jsgotangco> brb
<JaneW> yuk
<highvoltage> aaah, so that's what ubiquity is.
<jsgotangco> where were you?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i wish you could spend the last month or so in our office and see for yourself.
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i've seen a bit of the buzz about ubiquity, but didn't realise what it was about.
<jsgotangco> it actually works nice
<jsgotangco> although i only tried it with kubuntu
<LaserJock> they only thing I've had problems with is partitioning
<jsgotangco> it actually went fine with me on RC
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: got your email, thank you :)
<HedgeMage> JaneW: I'm sorry, but if you answered me, I missed it -- What should I do with my release announcement draft once it's written?
<ogra> HedgeMage, put it on the wiki for review
<JaneW> HedgeMage: um, place it on the wiki
<JaneW> ogra will most likely get the honour of sending it
<HedgeMage> okay, will do, anyplace special or just make sure it's easy to find?
<JaneW> HedgeMage: also ogra will need to add technical details 
* HedgeMage nods
<jsgotangco> \o/
<JaneW> HedgeMage: um, how about https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDapperReleaseAnnouncement
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> got it
<JaneW> page created
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> working on it now
<TiganSan> Hello, this is my first time joining an ubuntu meeting.  Is the meeting still goingon or did I miss it?
<highvoltage> TiganSan: still going
<HedgeMage> TiganSan: It's still going on, but appears to be winding down :)
<HedgeMage> at least, people are getting quiet :)
<TiganSan> So I see. That's ok.  Now that I know how to join the meeting, I try to be on time
* JeffWaddell is having technical difficulties
<LaserJock> well, it is 0500 here some I'm bound to fall asleep at some point ;-)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: about 6am here, I'm wondering whether or not I'll sneak in a nap before TT wakes.
<HedgeMage> TiganSan: :)
<HedgeMage> I think there's an Xubuntu meeting in an hour or so if you care to wait around.
<LaserJock> oh yeah, it's almost 6 here, my brain isn't working yet
<JaneW> any cookbook update?
<TiganSan> Well, I am dialing in from USA-East Cost time so I am just wide awake>-D
* JaneW is losing focus
<LaserJock> yeah, are there anymore items we need to cover?
<highvoltage> JaneW: eating before a meeting is not a good idea ;)
<HedgeMage> JaneW: We have more material up, and active proofing going on.
<JaneW> highvoltage: this I have just found out
<JaneW> highvoltage: I feel drugged
<HedgeMage> JaneW: I think we'll have a good first cookbook for Dapper and an incredible second one for Edgy, now that we have ourselves in order.
<JaneW> HedgeMage: excellent, i am so glad it has direction now :))
<HedgeMage> :D
* JaneW wants to go read it
<highvoltage> anything else on the meeting agenda? when is the next EC edubuntu meeting?
<HedgeMage> JaneW: Go for it.  I'm still transcribing a couple of my bits from handwritten notes... got stuck in an airport for many hours over the weekend without my laptop.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: next week, I think.
<JaneW> HedgeMage: URL?
<HedgeMage> JaneW: I'm doing the release draft, sleeping (I hope) then hitting cookbook again
<JaneW> HedgeMage: wiki/cookbook?
<JaneW> HedgeMage: you are a star!
<HedgeMage> JaneW: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<LaserJock> highvoltage: next week, later time, and is time for new members, I think
<highvoltage> LaserJock: great
<HedgeMage> JaneW: I'd actually like to see the old cookbook stuff (that never really went anywhere except as an impetus for the new) to be relocated or deleted eventually... it seems an easy way to confuse people
<JaneW> HedgeMage: if it is redundant already point the pages out to highvoltage and he can kill them
<JaneW> he likes doing that
<highvoltage> mhuhahahaha
<JaneW> see^^?
<HedgeMage> JaneW: awesome, will do... after I sleep :P
* HedgeMage watches highvoltage wave his wand of smiting
<highvoltage> smiting? what's that? (highvoltage's engrish isn't that good)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: destroying in a godly manner
<highvoltage> oooh, i like that word.
<HedgeMage> with super powers and such
<HedgeMage> :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: smite:    1.
<JaneW>          1. To inflict a heavy blow on, with or as if with the hand, a tool, or a weapon.
<JaneW>          2. To drive or strike (a weapon, for example) forcefully onto or into something else.
<JaneW>    2. To attack, damage, or destroy by or as if by blows.
<JaneW>    3.
<JaneW>          1. To afflict: The population was smitten by the plague.
<JaneW>          2. To afflict retributively; chasten or chastise.
<JaneW>    4. To affect sharply with great feeling: He was smitten by deep remorse.
<JaneW> is this meeting over?
<ajmitch> heh
<HedgeMage> I think so
<highvoltage> i take it that this meeting is smited?
<HedgeMage> If that was a motion, I second it :P
<highvoltage> great. ---->  #edubuntu
<JaneW> sorry it was rather discombobulated
* JaneW refrains from passing a motion :P
<HedgeMage> rofl
<LaserJock> lol
<JaneW> poor cbx33
<JaneW> having to minute that ;)
<HedgeMage> BTW, am I sending logs to Pete or is someone else? I seem to remember him asking at least 4 people...
<ajmitch> JaneW: so SoC stuff, nothing special you require from us slav^Wstudents apart from the spec? :)
<JaneW> ajmitch: LOL
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: we require HARD WORK.
* HedgeMage pictures him buried with many copies of the above log
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: of course
<JaneW> ajmitch: is your spec finalised?
<ajmitch> nah, still a couple of things in the proposal that aren't listed in the spec :)
<JaneW> ajmitch: you and mentor just have to stay in touch, and you need a clear spec so that it;s easy to judge if you have completed successful or not...
<ajmitch> well my mentor just demanded hard work, so I think that's possible
<JaneW> ajmitch: listen to him :P
* JaneW hands Mithrandir the whip
<sivang> hehe
<JaneW> ajmitch: and he seems to be watching you ;)
<ajmitch> I can see that :)
<sivang> can I have some whipping myself ? :p
* jeffwaddell wonders why JaneW has given the power of the whip to another...perhaps she has a backup
<JaneW> jeffwaddell: I always carry backups
<jeffwaddell> :)
<JaneW> jeffwaddell: and I need to start farming out my power
* jsgotangco knows what to ask from JaneW
<JaneW> ok Edubuntu folk back to #Edubuntu NOW
* jeffwaddell had heard of organic farming, and now there's power farming...
<JaneW> hey one person listened :)
<HedgeMage> lol
* HedgeMage wanders back to #edubuntu
* HedgeMage eyes JaneW's whip as she goes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Synergy6> Hmm, busy meeting
<Linuturk_NB> Agenda?
<Linuturk_NB> well, i've got a question. in 5.10, some of the menu's items didn't do anything. (namely the File Manager) Is this looking better in 6.06?
<Linuturk_NB> ok, i guess I have no idea how these meetings work
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Seveas> @now
<Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 31 2006, 15:43:46 - Next meeting: Technical Board  in 6 days
<Synergy6> Strange meetings system
<Seveas> what's strange about it? 
<kermitX_> there was none?
* ogra was wondering that too
<Seveas> probably no xubuntu people found it neccessary, but they forgot to cancel
<ogra> they likely forgot to notify the fridge
<Synergy6> What was strange about in meeting in which nobody met?
<Synergy6> *about a
<Synergy6> Kinda self-explanatory :)
<kermitX_> wish my business meetings were as quiet as this one was. ;)
<ogra> well, you complained about the system :)
<Synergy6> I thought a system would ensure that somebody would meet
<Synergy6> Hard to know whether this means that xubuntu is so perfect no issues need discussed, or dev participation is low
<ogra> heh, usually thats the case, but with a release on the next day somehow everybody pretends to be busy 
<Synergy6> Is the final going to be xfce 4.2 final or 4.4 cvs?
<kermitX_> my question was whether 4.4 final would make it in as an update.
<ogra> that'd be a question you'd best ask the people that just havent met :)
<Synergy6> True
<Synergy6> Does 4.4 have a release date or when it's done?
<Seveas> kermitX_, #xubuntu
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-01
<teckfatt> hello
<jjesse> @schedule Detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 06 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-02
<DaSkreec1> is there a IRC chan for Ubuntu development?
<licio> DapperDrake, /j #ubuntu-devel
<licio> ops
<licio> DaSkreec1, 
<DaSkreec1> :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-03
<OgMaciel> I need help getting someone to restar the server that hosts the brazilian sites... the admin is missing in action for more than 24 hours and nobody has access to it...  can someone point me to the right direction?
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-06-04
<bluefoxicy> @schedule
<Ubugtu> schedule Retrieve the date/time of scheduled meetings in a specific timezone
<bluefoxicy> @schedule USA/New York
<bluefoxicy> !schedule USA/New York
<bluefoxicy> schedule USA/New York
<robitaille> @schedule USA/NewYork
<bluefoxicy> aww screw it.
<robitaille> @schedule US/NewYork
<robitaille> @schedule US/Eastern
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Eastern: 06 Jun 16:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 17:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 09:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<robitaille> ah
<bluefoxicy> is that EST or EDT?
<robitaille> I think it is EDT
<bluefoxicy> k
<robitaille> @schedule US/Pacific
<Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 06 Jun 13:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 14:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 06:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<OgMaciel> howdy jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> Og!
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: good to see ya
<jsgotangco> OgMaciel: any news on mekong
* jsgotangco is actually down with a flu
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: sorry to hear that
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: I've heard that something went wrong during the dist-upgrade
<jsgotangco> who did the dist-upgrade? the host or one of us who has sudo access?
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: I don't have enough info.. so I'll refrain to answer it  ;)
<dsas> j #ubuntu-devel
<dsas> bah
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 07 Jun 15:30: Xubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-28
<Alibi-Man> hello?
<Hobbsee> hiya
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
<Alibi-Man> (totally lost here)
<PriceChild> Alibi-Man, what are you looking for? :)
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00: Community Council | 30 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers
<txwikinger> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 29 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 22:00: Community Council | 30 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 21:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 22:00: Kubuntu Developers
<profoX`> @schedule brussels
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
<yarddog> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 29 May 09:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 15:00: Community Council | 30 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 14:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 15:00: Kubuntu Developers
* jenda knocks, knocks on the meeting's door
<jenda> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00: Community Council | 30 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers
* Brunellus takes his seat uneasily
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> tomorrow :)
<Seveas> jenda, BWAHA :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-29
<sacater> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 07:11:23 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 7 hours 48 minutes
<sacater> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 08:22:31 - Next meeting: Kernel Team in 6 hours 37 minutes
<juliux> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00: Community Council | 30 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers
<txwikinger> @schedult belin
<txwikinger> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00: Community Council | 30 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers
<Riddell> man, I hate having kubuntu meetings scheduled, this channel always gets highlighted
<highvoltage> Riddell: do you have a hilight on "kubuntu" ?
<Riddell> yes
<highvoltage> Riddell: does this hilight for you? kubuntu
<highvoltage> oops, I hilighted your nick
<highvoltage> kubuntu
<highvoltage> ^^^ did that hilight?
<Riddell> well, yes
<highvoltage> kubuntu ?
<highvoltage> irssi is supposed to not hilight it if you insert junk like ^B^B in there. so I thought that the bot could be changed to do that. but that doesn't seem like it will work :/
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 30 May 01:00: Kernel Team | 30 May 07:00: Community Council | 30 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 01 Jun 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Jun 07:00: Kubuntu Developers
<yarddog> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 29 May 09:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 15:00: Community Council | 30 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 14:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 15:00: Kubuntu Developers
<effie_jayx> !schedule caracas
<PriceChild> @
<svaksha> @schedule caracas
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Caracas: 29 May 11:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 17:00: Community Council | 30 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers
<DarkSun88> @schedule italy
<DarkSun88> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
<sbalneav> @schedule winnipeg
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Winnipeg: 29 May 10:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 16:00: Community Council | 30 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 15:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 16:00: Kubuntu Developers
<jsgotangco> @schedule manila
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Manila: 29 May 23:00: Kernel Team | 30 May 05:00: Community Council | 30 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 04:00: Xubuntu Developers | 01 Jun 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Jun 05:00: Kubuntu Developers
<effie_jayx> @shedule caracas
<zul> @schedule now
<jsgotangco> oh kernel in a few minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
<fernando> @schedule Sao_Paulo
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: Current meeting: Kernel Team | 29 May 18:00: Community Council | 30 May 09:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 18:00: Kubuntu Developers
<BenC> Ok, everyone here?
<pkl_> yes
<zul> yep
<BenC> Anyone who wants to follow along, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting although we only loosely follow it
<BenC> This meeting, I wanted to start off with the team catching each other up on what we're doing
<BenC> Kyle just reminded me that rtg (Tim) probably is on vacation
<pkl_> on a raft in Montana somewhere...
<BenC> I'll start. but I'm pretty basic. Been merging patches from feisty into gutsy kernel, and sending those patches upstream. Working on a -6.12 upload right now
<BenC> Today I'll start merging some more patches, some of the bigger ones like toshiba_acpi
<BenC> I may end up doing that in linux-ubuntu-modules instead, and disable the one in the kernel
<BenC> kylem: how you been doing?
<kylem> i haven't really done anything kernel related in the las tweek.
<kylem> getting intel X support up to snuff for gutsy and then back for feisyt.
<BenC> mobile stuff?
<kylem> BenC_, no.
<BenC_> Ok, we can catch up on the other stuff later then
<BenC_> pkl_: how's things with you?
<pkl_> I've been following post-feisty kernel upload bugs and emails.  Going to start a new release, and integrate the current crop of patches to be put in.
<BenC> pkl_: did you discover what caused the storage bug?
<cr3> kylem: I noticed important changes to the intel X driver in gutsy such as support for rotation
<pkl_> In addition, done a bit of work on the mobile stuff, mainly Unionfs 2.0 status, and ODF (On disk format) investigation
<pkl_> Will be falling back to looking at Squashfs instrumentation to investigate the liveCD slowdown soon.
<pkl_> What storage bug BTW?  There's lots of the upload broke booting, fstab, resume etc.  All down to the reversion of libata support for PATA.
<BenC> I don't think it's really a bug, but some people noticed hdX changing to sdX
<BenC> I think they had hardcoded stuff in fstab, not using UUID's
<BenC> or maybe it was sdX to hdX
<pkl_> Most seem to have noticed sdX changing to hdX...  All the breakage seems to have been caused by hardcoding devices in various files.
<BenC> one other common non-bug I noticed was people complaining we "broke" their locally compiled modules, so I'm suggesting to Kees to update the security notices on ABI bump kernels to include a note saying "ABI changes, recompile your locally compiled modules"
<BenC> pkl_: any real regressions come out of that?
<pkl_> Couple of people complaining that the ps/2 fix doesn't fix VIA chipsets.  Some VIA chipsets seem to be exhibiting the same problems as SiS chipsets, but the fix doesn't work and so the underlying cause is obviously different.  What the cause is however is not apparent.
<BenC> pkl_: Are the VIA chipsets a regression from edgy still?
<pkl_> I've not any regressions so far...  There's been some complaints that some -16.28 packages have been missing, or dependencies still based on -15.27...
<mdz> pkl_: what's the status of the mobile kernel flavour?
<mdz> pkl_: did you receive the config from intel?
<BenC> pkl_: We can discuss this more on kernel-team@ if you need some help with these bugs...sounds like overall there weren't any major issues with -16 vs. -15
<pkl_> The VIA chipsets are a regression from edgy, in addition mice on VirtualPC are still broken.
<pkl_> mdz:  I've received nothing from Intel.
<BenC> Ok, I remember the VirtualPC one being the initial test case...I couldn't get VirtualPC working though
<BenC> mdz: Re: Intel-Mobile stuff, we haven't gotten a single bit from them, that I know of
<BenC> mdz: Should Phillip post to ubuntu-mobile requesting updates on kernel side?
<mdz> BenC: he should contact rob rhoads directly
<BenC> Ok
<mdz> and then mail ubuntu-mobile to let folks know what's happening, once there's something to tell
<BenC> Noted, thanks
<BenC> I want to skip ahead to KVM/cr3 topic...
<cr3> ahoy, the KVM has been connected to each desktop in the hardware certification lab
<cr3> to access the hardware certification network, I have decided to configure a VPN with dynamic addressing so that multiple can connect at the same time
<BenC> What software do we use to access it?
<cr3> to access the machines, there is a Java client which enables the user to select the machine
<cr3> to poweron the machines, the machines are connected to PDUs which can manage the power to the machines
<cr3> the BIOS of the machines are all configured to poweron when power is detected on the power supply
<cr3> this is necessary because the machines are still located in an office which becomes prohibitively hot when the machines are all turned on
<BenC> So we should power them down when we aren't using them?
<cr3> to address this problem, I will be sending quotes for colocation centers this afternoon which should be approved in a matter of a week or two
<cr3> BenC: ideally, yes
<cr3> the process of configuring the VPN and using the client software should be straightforward, the problem is mostly having to deal with the PDUs which I would like to spare for you guys
<BenC> Is there a howto page where we can go on how to configure the vpn and client?
<cr3> so, I see a couple options: 1. until we get a colocation center, the distro team could ping me to poweron machines; 2. I could provide detailed instructions on managing the PDUs sometime this week.
<BenC> I have to be honest, it's been years since I used a VPN on Linux
<cr3> BenC: not yet, but it's on my TODO list. when would you like the instructions, just for the VPN and client to start with?
<BenC> yeah, just being able to test this setup would be a good first step
<cr3> BenC: sure, I could aim to provide these instructions sometime tomorrow and how should I inform the distro team about it?
<BenC> Any chance the machines could have a CDRW media inserted in them constantly so we can do "burn ISO, reboot to livecd, install, reboot to new system" tests?
<BenC> cr3: I can give you an email address to send it to
<cr3> BenC: about half the machines don't even have a CDROM device because I often receive bare motherboards from Intel
<BenC> cr3: Ah, right...is there a PXE boot server?
<cr3> BenC: yes, and I would like to spend the next couple weeks improving the usability of the PXE boot server which I call a certification appliance
<cr3> the reason for this naming is that I would eventually like it to become a reusable component, for people like Intel for example
<BenC> cool
<cr3> mvo has also expressed interest in running a certification appliance, just for the automatic building process
<cr3> so, we could schedule discussing the certification appliance at the next kernel meeting in a couple weeks
<BenC> Sounds good...thanks for your time cr3
<cr3> BenC: does that seem like a reasonable timeline for you?
<BenC> yes, right after Tribe 1 is when we'll probably want to start using it
<BenC> that's when our bug level increases from more exposure
<cr3> IOU: 1. VPN and KVM client instructions tomorrow; 2. certification appliance on June 12th.
<cr3> we should also consider discussing the status of colocation at the next meeting
<BenC> Ok, noted for next agenda
<cr3> thanks!
<BenC> have a good week cr3, and thanks again
<BenC> Alright, moving on to Tribe 1 preparation
<BenC> 2.6.22-rc3, aka Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.12, was uploaded this morning, but I have a ppc build failure to contend with
<BenC> I'll have that done by today, and do lum/lrm/meta behind it, so hopefully by the end of tomorrow, things will be stable
<effie_jayx> @schedule caracas
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Caracas: Current meeting: Kernel Team | 29 May 17:00: Community Council | 30 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers
<BenC> that will give us only 8 days till tribe 1, so this is most likely the kernel that will be in that milestone
<BenC> fyi, Tribe is scheduled for June 7th
<BenC> *1
<BenC> I'm not aware of any showstoppers for this, but anyone have any known issues we should be worrying about?
<BenC> Eerie silence :)
<pkl_> well  assumed silence meant no from me :)
<BenC> You guys running gutsy kernel yet?
<kylem> yeah.
<kylem> on all my machines.
<BenC> nice
<pkl_> no, I've been running the test Feisty kernel.  Now it's released, I could move to gutsy...
<BenC> pkl_: you gotten a xeon mobo yet?
<BenC> probably good if you could keep feisty on at least one machine
<BenC> even if it's dual-boot
<pkl_> BenC: not yet (xeon mobo).
<BenC> well, I think that's it for us...any topics anyone wants to bring up before we cut out?
<BenC> Excellent, thanks for coming everyone, and have a good week...thanks to pkl and rtg (absent) for their first security uploads this past week
<gpocentek> :)
<gpocentek> eh, wrong chan
<Lure> @schedule ljubljana
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: Current meeting: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 29 May 16:00: Community Council | 30 May 07:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 15:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 16:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 14:00: Technical Board
<n3t0> LuizArmesto, \o/
<LuizArmesto> n3t0: ;)
<profoX`> !schedule Brussels
<profoX`> heh..
<profoX`> @schedule Brussels
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board
<amachu> hi.. it will be 2.30 AM here in India for me to attend the CC meeting
<amachu> i will try my level best.. to wake up back..
<amachu> :-)
<LuizArmesto> @schedule Brazil
<LuizArmesto> @schedule Brazil/West
<ubotu> Schedule for Brazil/West: 29 May 17:00: Community Council | 30 May 08:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 15:00: Technical Board
<n3t0> @schedule SaoPaulo
<WaVeR> Hi
<stgraber> hi WaVeR
<Toxicity999> Man... I hope I don't miss my turn for member interview. I'm supposed to be off around 6-8, but then it's a *huge* list.
<stgraber> hehe, the meeting will be starting at 23:00 here, I hope it'll end up before 04:00 :)
<Toxicity999> Oh yea, I was talking eastern
<Toxicity999> So I suppose that means 24-02 I'm *supposed* to be gone.
<Toxicity999> Your time anywho.
<Toxicity999> I hope it works out =[ I don't have much of an option, I'm generally off that time every night So we can occasionally get a phone call (hehe, dialup right now)
<Tribaal> Hi folks
<Tribaal> room is pretty quiet for a council...
<superm1> Tribaal, it doesnt start for 1hr 5min i thought?
<bandb|work> yeah, its an hour away
<Tribaal> err forgive me, I messed up the timezone settings :)
<sacater> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 20:04:53 - Next meeting: Community Council in 55 minutes
<n3t0> FaBMak, ae
<FaBMak> opa
<towsonu2003> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 20:32:38 - Next meeting: Community Council in 27 minutes
<OgMaciel> hello
<OgMaciel> Seveas: ping
<Seveas> hi OgMaciel
<OgMaciel> hey Seveas... just wanted to leave my +1 for sfair and n3t0... I may not be around
* OgMaciel needs to drive back home
<OgMaciel> Seveas: would you pass my message on to the CC?
<Toxicity999> Given that I'm last on the list for member interviews, anyone have a good approximation of when I'll be up? I have to leave for like an hour through the meeting =S not my choice.
<amachu> hi
<Seveas> Toxicity999, the list is too long for one meting, i expect that only half of the people on the list will get called
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Toxicity999> Seveas Ah okay, cool.
<amachu> its 2:20 AM here in India
<nixternal> heh, bdmurray is going for membership?
<nixternal> bdmurray: ummmmmmm ;)
<towsonu2003> sorry for this - @time
<bdmurray> nixternal: indeed I am
<amachu> has the meeting started?
<Mithrandir> no
<Mithrandir> it starts in seven minutes
<nixternal> Seveas: big YES from me for Tm_T (Jussi Kekkonen), bdmurray (the bug god), txwikinger (Ralph Janke), effie_jayx (Efrain Valles)
<Seveas> nixternal, OgMaciel: yes/no means nothing. Arguments please :)
<nixternal> they rock!
<nixternal> ;)
<Seveas> and you suck. Next!
<Seveas> :p
<nixternal> grr
<nixternal> @lart lart lart!
<OgMaciel> Seveas: I have written testimonials for both of them
* ajmitch wonders if bdmurray has done quite enough bug work yet
<nixternal> hahahahaha
<Burgundavia> Seveas: be nice, or I might have to remove your membership ;)
<Seveas> OgMaciel, on their wikipages?
<mdke> nixternal: if you can tell us why, it will help
<Seveas> ajmitch, barely
<OgMaciel> Seveas: yes.  just wanted a "vocal" +1  ;)
<nixternal> man, I need to run....but everyone knows bdmurray already
<ajmitch> Seveas: you think another few thousand would help?
<sacater> ~time
<sacater> ~time
<OgMaciel> Seveas: in other words, you could say: "Og said +1 from him"  :)
<sacater> ~time
<sacater> @time
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 29 2007, 20:55:25 - Current meeting: Community Council
<nixternal> Tm_T is a big help in Kubuntu with a ton of things, if Riddell is around I am sure he will pimp him and so with the other Kubuntu guys
<Seveas> sacater, stop it
<MikeB-> afternoon all
<sacater> Seveas: cant get the keys right
<welp> please excuse sacater tonight, he didn't seep at all last night.
<nixternal> effie_jayx rocks out a lot of marketing stuff and does way more than I do with Marketing
<sacater> welp: 36 hours now :D
<sacater> imbrandon: *nod*
<nixternal> and txwikinger is in that crowd as well for rocking the marketing scene and I am sure Corey can attest to it as well
<nixternal> man sacater too....jeesh
<JanC> sacater: wait until you didn't sleep for 3 full days   ;)
<nixternal> and pleia2 is rocking the Ubuntu US LoCo scene --- I thought for some reason she was already a member...under a new name :)
<sacater> JanC: im doing a sorta sleepathon
<welp> JanC, sssh, don't give him ideas!
<sacater> JanC: im aiming for all of half-term
<Seveas> sriramadas, superm1: around?
<welp> ...
<superm1> Hi Seveas
<pleia2> nixternal: heh, a few people thought I was already a member
<JanC> I did that at a festival, so I didn't have anything important to do  :)
<Seveas> so, how many of the CC are here now?
<welp> yeah, sacater chose a *really* idiotic time to "not sleep"
<Burgundavia> Seveas: we are short jerome and mikeb
<MikeB-> here
<Seveas> MikeB-, is here
<Seveas> mako's not
* dholbach is around
<mdke> I won't be able to stay for that long. How many members are we hoping to get through today? All of em?
<Seveas> mdke, let's hope not...
<sabdfl_> We really need to start delegating membership to teams
* imbrandon pops his head in
<dholbach> I'll stay ~2h max too
<sabdfl_> jono around?
<stgraber> Good evening everyone
<MikeB-> I will have to leave in 2 - 2.5 hours
<welp> how many new members are there for you lot to recruit?
<mdke> has jono vetted the member candidates?
* sacater bows at sabdfl_ 
* Brunellus genuflects at sabdfl_
<Seveas> ok, let's get started. Order in the room please
* nixternal has to go learn how to be a programmer - GOOD LUCK to the candidates
<Seveas> agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda, first on the agenda is superm1 with the mythtv team
<MikeB-> sabdfl_: don't see him, is he traveling today to LinuxTag
<Seveas> (sriramadas is not here for derivative team)
<dholbach> MikeB-: I though he'd travel tomorrow
<nixternal> MikeB-: yes about Jono (read blog)
<superm1> Okay, i'll get started then:
<superm1> Hi, i'm Mario Limonciello and I'm one of the folks here representing the Ubuntu MythTV team.  We were formed roughly 8 months ago, unofficially. My teamates and I have been working to make MythTV on Ubuntu a very solid experience that is easy to use.  You can see our wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MythTVTeam
<superm1> and some information about our upcoming Ubuntu remix, Mythbuntu at: http://www.mythbuntu.org.
<spaceinvader> welp: :P
<imbrandon> and I'm here on behalf of the MythTeam too
<mdke> Seveas: does anyone know what the issue that is referred to in the link under the derivative topic is?
<sacater> spaceinvader: please leave, this is not a good time
<superm1> and Daviey and keescook too :)
* keescook waves
<ubuntu_demon> hey :)
<Seveas> mdke, I don't and from the part of the discussion I saw last time, not many people do
<Daviey> yep, i'm here
<mdke> there is some reference to problems with Canonical
<Seveas> I'll poke sriramadas for next meeting
<mdke> sabdfl_: know anything?
<crimsun> (I've also worked with superm1 from -mythtv)
<mdke> Seveas: ok, we'll chase it up via email.
<mdke> the mythtv team looks well organised and well supported to me
<blizzzek> hi
<dholbach> it looks quite well to me too, and I'm happy to see so many people in it
<dholbach> how many of the mythbuntu changes go directly into Ubuntu?
<superm1> we've also got several folks that regular the forums to troll and help posts
<sabdfl_> mdke: problems in connection with?
<superm1> so far everything but ubiquity
<imbrandon> dholbach, 100%
<dholbach> (I didn't see the splash screen package in Ubuntu yet, that's why I asked ;-))
<juliux> hi all
<dholbach> imbrandon: excellent
<superm1> crimsun uploaded it a week or so ago
<dholbach> ah ok
<superm1> (the splash)
<sabdfl_> superm1: i've had very good feedback from people about mythtv on ubuntu, thanks to your team's work
<imbrandon> it needed a bit of work, but we're striving to do everytign in the archive
<mdke> sabdfl_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2007-April/001281.html is the thread referred to
<Daviey> dholbach: were trying to get it in :)
<crimsun> (yes)
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: Current meeting: Community Council | 30 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 23:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 22:00: Technical Board
<dholbach> do you have close ties to the upstream folks? are there any in the team too?
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o Seveas]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+b %*!*@ubuntu/bot/ubotu]  by Seveas
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o Seveas]  by ChanServ
<Seveas> (remove noise during meeting)
<mdke> thanks Seveas
<superm1> sabdfl_, we've tried to follow as much input on the forums as possible with things that needed work for feisyt
<Mithrandir> I've been unhappy with some of their packages when doing reviews of them; I haven't reviewed enough of them to know whether it's a problem with a couple of people who just haven't had enough training or if it's a systemic problem.  I suspect the former, in which case it's much easier to fix than in the latter case.
<Mithrandir> I think it can be fixed by trying to pull them more into the normal workflow, though.
<mdke> is there a process in place to deal with the problems Mithrandir mentions?
<mdke> within the team, I mean
<superm1> Well that was one of the big reasons we are running to be recognized here, we were looking to get a mailing list made
<sabdfl_> mdke: oh, no further news from dfarning afaik, and i'm still not sure what he was referring to there
<keescook> Mithrandir: I've been trying to help where I know how and to get other MOTU to comment on things I'm less familiar with.
<superm1> we currently have IRC at #ubuntu-mythtv
<imbrandon> mdke, yes myself and i know crimsun and keescook atleaste have been working on getting everythgin 100% upto standards packing wise
<superm1> but not everyone is on at all times
<dholbach> mdke, sabdfl_: I'll prod him again by mail.
<mdke> sabdfl_: weird. ok We'll follow up with him by email maybe
<crimsun> (I tend to be pretty rigorous/harsh in reviewing.)
<mdke> superm1: a mailing list sounds like a very good idea.
<Mithrandir> also, this was a couple of months back, so it might well have improved.
<Daviey> mdke: We applied for it over two months ago - not sure what the holdup is.
<superm1> Mithrandir, yes - i think i know which upload your referring too also.  putting some stuff into /home
<superm1> and such
<Seveas> Daviey, general too-much-work-ness in the admin department
<Daviey> Seveas: heh :)
<mdke> Daviey: we have a bit of a problem with mailing list creation at the moment; jono is supposedly working on it so hopefully you will have good news soon
<sabdfl_> superm1: if you guys are committed to making your changes in the archive, then i see no problem with official recognition of the team, and also of your dedicated derivative
<Daviey> mdke: that would be really good.  Where we work on so many different timezones - irc doesn't always work out
<mdke> sure
<superm1> sabdfl_, the only questionable change to commit back to archive will be the ubiquity - because its such a drastic patch that we are applying to it
<mdke> perhaps use -motu for now, and poke jono regularly :)
<sabdfl_> superm1: this is to make the system boot straight to myth, right?
<Mithrandir> superm1: can't it be modularised or made conditional somehow?
<superm1> mythbuntu will create a system that boots right into myth and configures myth
<superm1> yes sabdfl_
<superm1> Mithrandir, I was going to work with the ubiquity guys after we have our patch fully completed and see how feasible that is
<superm1> but atm there are a few things yet for us to finish and determine how much needs changing
<Seveas> superm1, isn't it possible to separate that from ubiquity so people can turn their existing ubuntu boxes into mythtv machines?
<Seveas> and hook the separate program into ubiquity in your derivative
* ScottK has been reviewing superm1's packages on #ubuntu-motu and they definitely seem committed to getting things into the archives and doing things correctly.
<superm1> We have docs explaining how to do that right now, but no seperate program yet
<imbrandon> Seveas, yes, thats also done quite easliy now with the currect meta packages
<Seveas> imbrandon, excellent
<sabdfl_> i guess there are two use cases: (1) the box is dedicated, and (2) you want to work on it, then turn it into a myth box, then work on it again
<mdke> sounds good. The team clearly has some good peopl behind it and good communication, especially considering they don't have a mailing list yet
<superm1> (http://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV)
<Daviey> Seveas: We are trying to get everything to work from exisiting repo's - so you don't need the dedicated release
* Seveas cheers for the team
<mdke> +1 from me
<sabdfl_> +1 from me, anyone else want to take a view?
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<dholbach> I'm very happy with the team as it is, +1 from me too
<MikeB-> +1 from me
<mdke> nice
<Seveas> 5 out of 6, elmo care to cast a vote?
<Seveas> or are you already hiding for the next subject? ;)
<imbrandon> :)
<elmo> +1
<Daviey> woo
<Seveas> excellent, moving on quickly to covr more
<superm1> Yay, unanimous vote  :)
<Seveas> Burgundavia, you're on (planet ubuntu editorial)
<mdke> superm1: write to us if you don't get your list
<Burgundavia> right
<superm1> Okay mdke thanks
<Burgundavia> we are considering the following spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntuEditorialPolicy#preview
<Burgundavia> the idea was mind, kicked up with the recent dell issue and brought again into the light with the \sh issue
<Burgundavia> the primary idea behind the spec is to create 1) a palce for people to contact to get illegal crap removed from planet, including accidential breaches of embargo
<Burgundavia> 2) a clearly defined procedure for objectionable content
<Burgundavia> mdke and myself have been working on the language over the past day
<elmo> could we please tone down the 'censorship' language on there?
<mdke> this afternoon I added some thoughts which I found in a previous discussion of these issues, by silbs, sabdfl and cjwatson; so it should have a reasonably cc-ed direction, I hope
<elmo> I see it's been improved, but it's still all over the use cases
<yann2> i am not particularly happy with the "Material is posted which (generally unintentionally) offends another community member."  :(
<towsonu2003> 2nd use case looks problematic
<mdke> yann2: just to be clear, that is in the Rationale. If you read the spec, it doesn't actually ban such material, far from it
<sabdfl_> by illegal, i take it you also mean content which causes legal problems for companies or individuals as well as stuff that is genuinely illegal?
<towsonu2003> yann2, me neither, there is too much stuff that might offend at least one person
<yann2> "Melanie is a north american conservative catholic feminist, and is _Extremely_ offended by a post from a west european boy"
<Burgundavia> what should be very clear: we are not defining what should or should not be banned
<yann2> (not related to melissa, but as example)
<sabdfl_> just the process for addressing it
<yann2> ok :)
<mdke> yann2: I don't think you've read the spec very carefully. You've just got stuck at the beginning
<sabdfl_> i think the spec could use a little work
<mdke> but yeah, the use cases need work
<yann2> mdke > i did read it :)
<mdke> and the spec in general should have more consultation, I think. It has come onto the agenda rather quickly
<sabdfl_> it basically says "it's ok for us to take some stuff off, go here -> to get that done if you think something should come off"
<gnomefreak> a very good point was brought up on this in -women, where do we draw the line between offensive/inappoprate and ok to post.
<ScottK> Since planet is just a mirror, what would be the point of removing information due to breaches of confidentiality?  Once something's on the internet, you can't really get it off.
<Burgundavia> i brought it up for consulation. I full expect it to require more work
<Burgundavia> ScottK: it is about best effort
<yann2> in \sh comments, it was proposed to divide the planet in planet ubuntu and ubuntu universe, i would support this idea
<mdke> ScottK: because of the wide readership
<PriceChild> ScottK, but on planet it is representing Ubuntu.
<sbalneav> You're going to have to be very clear and explicit about what you consider to be objectionable material that's not suitable for planet.  If you're not, your simply going to end up with arbitrary decisions being made for every case.
<yann2> it would allow to be more laxist on the "universe" and maybe define stronger guidelines on the planet
<Burgundavia> yann2: that is a seperate issue
<sabdfl_> i don't think we should aim to please everyone
<JanC> PriceChild: so hiding things that happen inside Ubuntu is good ?  :)
<ScottK> OK. Joe posts information.  Jane whines and claims to be Joe's employer.  What's the process for verification?
<PriceChild> JanC, Of course not.
<sabdfl_> you need something of a robust sense of humour to survive on the net, in any event
<towsonu2003> but wouldn't universe work like the Backyard in ubuntuforums.org - a way to burry stuff?
<mdke> sabdfl_: +1
<Burgundavia> indeed
<mdke> sbalneav: I think the general approach is to leave it up to the individual member to decide what they consider suitable. For serious breaches of the coc, like with all mediums, we are here
<JanC> sabdfl_: not only on the net
<sabdfl_> the recent question from melissa is really interesting in what it raises
<MikeB-> this is definate a case of Ubuntu growing pains
<kalon33> JanC: sure, in the life too :p
<ajmitch> mdke: some people have a *very* broad view of what's acceptable
<elkbuntu> fyi, i am here, albeit half asleep still
<mdke> ajmitch: I understand that, and people's different personalities are part of what makes planet interesting
<JanC> it has been proposed to create both a "complete planet" and a "filtered planet"
<ScottK> Who is the filter?
<sabdfl_> why not make this doc nice and short, and say "stuff can be removed here, being subscribed is not an automatic right to have anythin you write published here"
<Burgundavia> JanC: that gets into a kettle of fish I don't wnt to touch
<imbrandon> who filters , based on what
<mdke> ajmitch: fwiw, the previous complaints that sparked a discussion on the cc list were about a post dealing with politics that was found offensive
<sabdfl_> then point to: canonical admins for emergencies, cc for social issues
<JanC> if you don't like the filter, don't use it  :)
<MikeB-> we need express to people that the Ubuntu community is worldwide, all nationalities, religions, age groups, etc...
<mdke> sabdfl_: yeah, I think it will be better
<Burgundavia> sabdfl_: that is pretty much what is there, in the implementation section
<sabdfl_> then also, separately, we could have a set of guidelines that mas the CoC to the blogosphere
<sabdfl_> just like we have it for IRC, Forums
* ScottK says +1 to sabdfl_'s latest.
<Burgundavia> what if we just nuked everything but the implementation section?
<sabdfl_> i wouldn't mind having a non-CC team delegated to deal with social issues like this
<Burgundavia> that deals with the annoying use cases and rationale, etc.
<dholbach> I like sabdfl_'s idea. It should be a light-weight straight-forward process. Trying to point out what's allowed and what's not will always put you into problems. The less policy like and the more process like (for emergencies), the better.
<kalon33> I like sabdfl_ idea too ;)
<yann2> sso basically, remove everything that may pose problem?
<towsonu2003> +1 Burgundavia's offer
<ScottK> Legal issues and company confidential information are two separate issues and should be deconflated.
<yann2> if it offend one person, delete it? bloggers won't like that
<JanC> dholbach: true, but then you might get a bias by the judges
<mdke> yann2: arghh
<sabdfl_> we should equally have a piece that says "hey, don't be a wilting flower, if you disagree with something here, write up a smart, witty counterblog and woo the crowds to your view"
<dholbach> JanC: which judges?
<LaserJock> yann2: please read what is being said. that was never suggested
<imbrandon> sabdfl_, +10
<JanC> well, whoever "judges"
<sabdfl_> is there an existing team which would be a good pre-CC stop for issues raised along these lines?
<markvandenborre> couldn't we make a separation between "on topic" (ubuntu only)
<Burgundavia> sabdfl_: just a touch confused. What you propose. Is that not just the implemenation section as written?
<mdke> sabdfl_: well, jono
<markvandenborre> and off topic (not ubuntu only)?
<JanC> i just mean, the "judges" should be chosen carefully   :)
<keescook> as long as we can avoid in-planet inter-blog flame wars, the "witty retort" can be nice.
<elkbuntu> sabdfl_, and when it comes to the CoC being broken, one would risk counterbreaking it, which is not something that should be encouraged
<ScottK> Burgundavia: The implementation section still conflates legal and company confidential in a way that is really problematic in my view.
<sabdfl_> Burgundavia: roughly. let me have a stab at tightening it up
<imbrandon> sabdfl_, a one man team, jono , heh
<dholbach> JanC: to me the solution sounds like a process for emergencies, where things can be discussed - no active judging if or if not posts are suitable.
<Burgundavia> ScottK: you are concerned about how it puts the two together?
<JanC> well, someone will have to make decisions
<mdke> elkbuntu: the problem is that the question of whether the CoC has been broken can be quite subjective.
<ypsila> :-D
<mdke> I think what will eventually come out of issues like this, and which I've seen raised elsewhere too is the proposal of making some amendments to the CoC which makes it a bit clearer what is actually regarded as disrespectful and inconsiderate. People are having more and more difficulty applying it in various contexts.
<ScottK> Burgundavia: Yes as they are two completely separate issues in almost all cases.
<ScottK> Breaking a company rule and breaking the law are different
<markvandenborre> mdke, I think that idea is fundamentally flawed in a global context
<imbrandon> AACS key
<markvandenborre> when it comes to non-ubuntu things
<yann2> +1 to mdke on the examples
<mdke> markvandenborre: you mean the CoC is fundamentally flawed?
<markvandenborre> no, not at all
<ajmitch> keescook: though some people will certainly just pack up & move on if they're constantly seeing stuff that's blatantly offensive, rather than write up something about it
<Burgundavia> ScottK: if you post something in contravention of an embargo, that is actually a legal issue
<keescook> ajmitch: yup.
<markvandenborre> I mean that in cultural background x, mentioning igasm is perfectly ok
<ScottK> It's a contractual issue which is not exactly the same thing.
<markvandenborre> in another one, it is not
<mdke> markvandenborre: right, that's why the spec suggests reminding posters that the planet is a global community
<markvandenborre> and the further you get from ubuntu as the binding factor, the less these
<JanC> mdke: what's appropriate is different all over the world, who are we to cut it in stone?
<Burgundavia> ScottK: they both need to be dealt with the same way, however
<sabdfl_> anybody have a url for \sh's controversial post?
<sabdfl_> i didn't see it
<ajmitch> markvandenborre: right, how willing should we be to allow offending people then?
<mdke> JanC: what we are defining is what is appropriate for global interaction, it's a common denominator.
<ScottK> Burgundavia: I disagree.  I'll say again, Joe posts something.  Jane shows up and complains that Joe has published confidential information and is an employee of Jane's company.  How do you verify that?
<ubuntugeek> Just curious, is there a way for planet to only pull from a certain section of a persons blog? Perhaps the user if they want to be listed on the planet creates an Ubuntu section and that is the only thing that is polled into the planet feed. Since posts are made on a persons personal blog you are sorta telling them what they can and can't talk about outside the community.. my 2cents.
<mdke> ubuntugeek: sure, tags and filters work
<keescook> is there anything that recommend people only post ubuntu-related things to planet?  I use an "ubuntu" tag in my blog, just so I have to choose to have a post be included.
<gnomefreak> sabdfl_: ill have it in a minute
<elkbuntu> sabdfl_, http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html
<Burgundavia> providing your blogging software supports that
<Seveas> sabdfl_, http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html  http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/337-My-Appologies-to-everybody-not-living-in-a-free-country.html
<Mithrandir> sabdfl_: http://linux.blogweb.de/ ; http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html in particular
<gnomefreak> or not\
<JanC> mdke: I don't think that such a thing really exists
<Seveas> lol :)
<keescook> Burgundavia: hm, true
<profoX`> ubuntugeek: that depends on the blog, but its possibnle with most blogs
<imbrandon> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused,-but-you-should-be,-when-you-use-it.html
<gnomefreak> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/335-Apple-is-not-amused%2C-but-you-should-be%2C-when-you-use-it.html
<mdke> JanC: essentially, the CoC is about helping people work efficiently in a large and global community. It's not about dictating what is acceptable in difference cultures
<gnomefreak> that would be it
<welp> with gentoo, the blogs have a 'gentoo' category, which gets aggreated to planet.gentoo.org, everything else goes to planet.gentoo.org/universe
<welp> just fyi
<JanC> mdke: and it already does that IMHO
<ubuntugeek> ProfoX': perhaps there should then be a requirement that your blog supports it.
* welp stfu again
<mdke> JanC: sure. But it might be able to do it better
<sabdfl_> ubuntugeek: we can't verify every detail, but it's possible to make a reasoned judgement
<LaserJock> ubuntugeek: that's certianlly possible, that's what I do. but in \sh's case I believe he termed that censorship
<elkbuntu> LaserJock, from how i understood his arguing, yes
<MikeB-> ubuntugeek: most blog software allow you to make a rss feed for a specific categories
<mdke> whether to filter/tag posts to planet is a question of choice of the individual blogger
<imbrandon> well not exactly, i intentionaly post everything from my blog to planet because planet in its true form is a "view into the lives of the people behind the project" not nessesarly "about" the project
<markvandenborre> I would like to see the responsibility for what a planet visitor looks at with the user for as much as possible
<ubuntugeek> sure but the downfall of that would surley be less then the downfall of someone posting something that aggravates multiple people.
<imbrandon> well not exactly, i intentionaly post everything from my blog to planet because planet in its true form is a "view into the lives of the people behind the project" not nessesarly "about" the project
<imbrandon> err
<mdke> we need to focus this discussion a bit
<Burgundavia> indeed
<yann2> you will still need one person who is going to make the choices.
<sabdfl_> interesting. i don't think that post is a problem. it's racy, sure, but not offensive in western terms
<keescook> imbrandon: that's why I was wondering if there was a published "the planet should be for all blog entries" vs "please keep it project-oriented"
<ubuntugeek> My point is, it would seem better to enforce a requirement policy and be upfront with it then to censor. The person should agree to that requirement, if they break it they loose their planet access.
<sabdfl_> that's not to say that it won't cause some people a reasonably anxious moment or two
<imbrandon> keescook, there is a small blurb on the right
<mattva01> shouldn't there just be a big disclaimer  at the top?
<keescook> I kinda like welp's described tag/tagless split
<markvandenborre> We need a solution where on one hand posters know they can post what is appropriate in their cultural context, as long as it doesn't violate basic human rights civilised people can agree on.
<markvandenborre> Viewers on the other hand should be able to easily avoid posts potentially inappropriate to them. This carries the risk of alienating part of the community.
<Seveas> this is going on for too long -- maybe we should summarize the discussion, let corey amend the policy and give this a retry later? The agenda is rather long and we'v not come too far on this subject
<JanC> sabdfl_:  "western" isn't the right word, it depends on the subculture you live in
<sabdfl_> corey, would you also look into Tim O'Reilly's blog code of conduct?
<sabdfl_> there might be things we can embrace there, as a translation of the CoC into blog-terms
<Burgundavia> sabdfl_: it looks a touch overdone, but sure
<mdke> markvandenborre: can you explain how the spec fails to do what you've described?
<sabdfl_> i don't think we want to be that heavy handed
<hypa7ia> \sh's comments are also worth considering in the light of his earlier comments about "sexy posters" on planet
<hypa7ia> imo
<sabdfl_> and i think we really only want to rule out deeply offensive and personal items
<mdke> hypa7ia: hi!
<JanC> hypa7ia: welcome (even if we don't agree on some things ;) )
<sabdfl_> in general, things like \sh's items are best addressed with a few quiet words, rathe than a  lynching party
<elkbuntu> sabdfl_, we tried. believe me, we really did try.
<sabdfl_> elkbuntu: i might well have posted that link myself!
<JanC> one problem is there had been previous issues with you a Hobbsee
<sabdfl_> don't consider it a failure
<elkbuntu> sabdfl_, i'm glad you didnt.
<Burgundavia> for the record: http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/BCC <-- drafts bloggesr code of conduct
<sabdfl_> i'm more concerned with his style of response to you
<sabdfl_> but i only have that second-hand
<mdke> that's the real problem here; the discussion afterwards
<JanC> sabdfl_: it's his style, he probably regrets some things by now  :)
<markvandenborre> mdke, many posts that are controversial in some cultural backgrounds should be fine on the planet, but viewers from those cultural backgrounds should have an easy way to avoid them
<ypsila> \sh actually is in Berlin to represent Kubuntu on the linuxtag
<sabdfl_> right. we should remember this: we can't encode "getting along" in a set of rules
<imbrandon> ok i must run , Seveas if sacater gets to membershiptoday he has my +1
<towsonu2003> mdke, I'm not really sure what the real issue here...
<sacater> imbrandon: thanks
<elkbuntu> sabdfl_, im a person that is reasonably unfazeable, and while i personally was not offended by the post, due to my letter last week, i received a number of confidential communications concerned about it
<sabdfl_> ok, can we conclude? this has been a good discussion. i'd like to move that:
<hypa7ia> sabdfl_: but an established process for dispute resolution is worthwhile
<Seveas> imbrandon, +1 means nothing without arguments
<hypa7ia> and in this case there wasn't a process for planet
<sabdfl_>  => i'll tighten up the current doc, on a KISS basis
<imbrandon> ok i'll be back shortly and give them to you
<sacater> imbrandon: ty
<Seveas> excellent
<sabdfl_>  => corey will work up something nice and guidelineish, with examples
<mdke> ok
* Burgundavia looks like a deer in headlights
<sabdfl_>  => we'll deal with future matters arising on a case by case basis till a pattern emerges
<mdke> Burgundavia: I'll help
<MikeB-> Burgundavia: I can help also, what ever you need
<dholbach> shall we move on to the SwissTeam?
<tormod> apropos family-friendly content, see https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clusterfuck :)
* elkbuntu hugs Burgundavia
<mdke> dholbach: yes
<Seveas> dholbach, we should
<mdke> *stgraber*
<hypa7ia> i'd be glad to help too
<stgraber> Good evening, I'm Stphane Graber and I'm here to represent the Ubuntu Swiss Team (Switzerland).
<stgraber> The Ubuntu Swiss Team was created more than a year ago and now is mainly about organizing events like the OpenExpo (having stands at computer shows and exhibitions), organizing release parties and other coming-togethers.
<Seveas> Burgundavia, mdke, sabdfl_: thanks for tackling it and good luck
<stgraber> We also provide support with our mailing-list, IRC channel and our extensive list of local contact persons spread all over Switzerland.
<stgraber> As we have 4 official languages here in Switzerland, we've chosen English as our exchange language and then people are mainly using language-specific forums for online-support and our contact list for local-support.
<stgraber> Our wikipage is : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwissTeam
<stgraber> and our Application : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SwissTeam/ApprovalApplication
<Tribaal> +1
<dholbach> I like the "Fondue for Human Beings" :-)
<Tribaal> hehehe
<stgraber> :)
* tormod waves virtual Swiss flags
<mdke> stgraber: I read the wiki pages - looks excellent to me. I was wondering how your relationship with other teams is; the question of overlapping languages is a really tricky one in the Ubuntu community at the moment
<JanC> stgraber: sounds a bit like the Belgian team  :)
<markvandenborre> mdke, it works fairly well in Belgium
<stgraber> yes, but with 4 languages in our case :)
<welp> swiss++
<mdke> markvandenborre: yeah, I know
<mdke> but we can learn more from each new team
<tormod> we (SwissTeam) focus on local activities, not language-specific
<markvandenborre> absolutely
<stgraber> well, basically the team only do the on-site part of the support, which means meeting, release parties and exhibitions, the on-line activities are directed to the others communities like ubuntu-fr, ubuntu-it, ubuntu-de
<JanC> tormod: so do we in Belgium
<mdke> right
<tormod> JanC: makes sense doesn't it :)
<yann2> ubuntu-fr will be happy to work with you stgraber , if you need help on some points, ... ;)
<dholbach> we could do with some more swiss MOTUs - do you know of any people getting involved with that part of the community?
<mdke> stgraber: ditto ubuntu-it
<ypsila> stgraber: you forgot kubuntu-de ;-)
<tormod> many SwissTeam members are members in -de -fr groups etc
<stgraber> and we also have some translators for those languages
<stgraber> ypsila: oops, sorry, that's right -de has kubuntu specific website
<tormod> yann2: if you need help from us... :)
<stgraber> yann2, mdke : thx
<ypsila> stgraber: not only!
<Seveas> A quick note for all member candidates: If you did not yet join the ubuntumembers tam on launchpad, please do so *now*
<stgraber> well, (x/ed/k)ubuntu-(it/de/fr).org should be better, isn't it ? :)
<mdke> I don't want to sound like a total noob, but what is the frame of reference for approving loco teams? What are the relevant considerations?
<Tribaal> ubuntu-ch members on launchpad?
<Burgundavia> mdke: was about to ask that myself
<Seveas> mdke, that they are actively promoting/supporting ubuntu -- which for the swiss team seems to be ok :)
<ypsila> stgraber: :-) of course!
<tormod> we also try to work closely and productively with all the general linux- and open-source associations here
<mdke> the swiss team sounds pretty well organised, well led and well supported. I'm happy to give my support, but I don't actually know what standard I'm supposed to apply for "officialising" locoteams
* ScottK has to go in a few moments.  I'd like to speak in favor of membership for sacater when the time comes.  He is clearly very enthusiastic and committed to Ubuntu.  My only suggestion would actually be to dial back his enthusiasm a bit as his interest in helping sometimes exceeds his experience, but that will come in time.  I think he would make a good addition to Ubuntu members.
<stgraber> yep, we have quite a lot of LUGs here and I think we have some good links with them
<Seveas> mdke, other considerations are thir plans for the future, cooperation with othr teams etc...
<Seveas> jono/elkbuntu should b able to give the executiv summary :(
<Seveas> err :)
<juliux> or smurf ;)
<sacater> ScottK: tyvm
<elkbuntu> hmm?
<Seveas> ScottK, noted
<mdke> I think we should perhaps tie the standard required down sometime, maybe write some things down. But whatever it is, the swiss team clearly passes it :)
<mdke> so +1
<dholbach> does anybody have anymore questions? MikeB-, Burgundavia, sabdfl_, elmo?
<Tribaal> Yeeeha
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<elmo> +1
<MikeB-> +1 from me, look like a great team
<dholbach> +1 from me too, excellent work being done in the team
<WaVeR> Ubuntu-ch is also for make some install party and to get more people using Ubuntu on Switzerland
<WaVeR> +1 for me 
<Seveas> sabdfl_, ?
<Seveas> sabdfl_, seems to be missing, but since we still have quorum, I suggest we move on
<Seveas> he can catch up later and the agenda is massive
<Seveas> txwikinger, is the first member candidate on the list who is here
<mdke> ya
<Seveas> txwikinger, please paste your introduction
<stgraber> thx
<tormod> hurray! thanks for your trust, from the Swiss ubuntites :)
<txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Txwikinger
<sabdfl_> +1
<Seveas> (all other member candidates: prepare a short introduction which you can paste in here when called)
<mdke> good work swiss guys
<sabdfl_> Burgundavia: have a look at the editorial policy now?
<stgraber> sabdfl_: thx
<Seveas> txwikinger, no introduction?
<Burgundavia> sabdfl_: still looking through the blogging code of conduct
<Tribaal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tribaal
<Tribaal> oops
<WaVeR> thanks all 
<txwikinger> Short introduction
<txwikinger> I am working with uni/linux for a long time now
<txwikinger> started to be with ubuntu for more than 2 years
<txwikinger> Have a long time technical support background
<txwikinger> hence have a lot of fun helping out with questions
<Seveas> Are there people around who want to vouch for txwikinger ?
<Seveas> <nixternal> and txwikinger is in that crowd as well for rocking the marketing scene and I am sure Corey can attest to it as well
<neversfelde> yes
<txwikinger> due to being bilingual  helping out with translating
<neversfelde> txwikinger is a bridge to launchpad for the whole german *ubuntu community. He is among other things an important and very active member of kubuntu-de.org and alongside he translates most of the "weekly" uwn into german
<Tribaal> yes
<mdke> lots of UWN translations listed there, nice
<ypsila> yes
<Seveas> Tribaal, ypsila tell us why he should be a member then :)
<blizzzek> yes
<dholbach> txwikinger: I noticed massive contributions to the answers tracker - that's great.... on your wiki page you say you're looking into becoming a MOTU - did you approach any MOTUs about that already? is there anything you'd like to work on?
<Tribaal> been pretty active, present and friendly. That qualifies in my book
<ypsila> Seveas: he is competent, his translations are always perfect, except some mistakes in the german language :-)
<ubuntu_demon> I'm going to sleep right now but I just want to +1  Brunellus (Luigi de Guzman) he has been on the ubuntuforums staff for a while and has been a good and able staff member.
<Tribaal> plus being billingual is a big plus
<txwikinger> dholbach: I have done a couple of simple fixes... like spellings and so on and submitted them to MOTUs
<sabdfl_> txwikinger: regarding your school MIS, have you heard of SchoolTool?
<txwikinger> dholbach: I am practicing a little packaging for myself atm
<txwikinger> sabdfl_: Yes I have tested it before
<sabdfl_> thanks ubuntu_demon
<txwikinger> sabdfl_: I am trying to connect things like SchoolTool with the requirements of the DFeS and LEAs
<sabdfl_> +1 from me for txwikinger on the grounds of plenty of community work over a period of some time
<dholbach> txwikinger: I'm going to announce the ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing list quite soon, it'd be nice to see if that'd help you get going. Let me know how becoming a MOTU works out for you.
<txwikinger> dholbach: Thanks I would be very interested
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<elmo> +1
<MikeB-> +1 for me
<dholbach> txwikinger: thank you :)
<mdke> yes, +1 from me too; lots of nice contribution over what looks like a long period
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<Seveas> Burgundavia, mdke ?
<MikeB-> AFK for a couple of minutes, need to send a fax ASAP
<Seveas> ok, /me too impatient :)
<Seveas> 6 out of 6, excellent!
<Burgundavia> now I just need to suck txwikinger into editing the english UWN...
<Seveas> Welcome txwikinger
* ypsila waves the big handkerchief over to Great Britain for txwikinger
<Seveas> fernando, you're up
<txwikinger> Thanks a lot everybody
<Tribaal> *claps for tx*
<ypsila> Burgundavia: very good idea!
<welp> txwikinger's a brit?
<txwikinger> welp: I am German but live in the UK
<fernando> My name is Fernando Ribeiro. I'm living in brasilia (Brazil). I'm working as a consultant in governmental sites in my country. I have already patched the command line options to use optparser python module, other little patchs, same bug fixes and testing. I'm trying to be a motu (dholbach is my mentor). I have already build mrbayers, jadetex and music-applet. Working in libgnomedb3 and mergeant packages. =)
<ypsila> welp: no! he is geman! but he lives inuk
<welp> mmm, good enough, i suppose ;)
<ypsila> welp: good? are you kidding?
<mdke> fernando: how long have you been involved in Ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> fernando: link us up with a wiki page?
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FernandoRibeiroSilva
<Seveas> Burgundavia, it's on the CC agenda page :)
<Burgundavia> Seveas: that is a few tabs and many conversations over
<fernando> mdke: since dapper how user, in LP +/- 6 months
<Seveas> Burgundavia, install the 'Permanent tab' extension for firefox, it helps in these cases :)
<fernando> dholbach: thanks
<cypherbios> I someone ask me, I think fernando would be a good addition to ubuntumembers to works in bug triage and packaging related stuffs
<mdke> fernando: so you've been doing bug work already for 6 months?
<Seveas> mdke, his karma seems not to suggest that
<Seveas> Besides cypherbios, is there anyone else who want to cheer for fernando?
* OgMaciel hasn't met Fernando  :/
<dholbach> I think fernando's QA efforts were focussed on improving bughelper
<dholbach> I added my testimonials on his wiki page
<mdke> I'm not criticising at all, it's a good wiki page and I think the contributions are really good. i just want to get a feel for the period of participation
<fernando> mdke: no very active to bug work this last 4 months to marriage preparatives
<mdke> yeah, I know that one
<dholbach> mdke: I wasn't suggesting that you were. :-)
<mdke> dholbach: sure, I just wanted to make that clear anyway
<sabdfl_> fernando: it's great to have your participation
<sabdfl_> reading your wiki page i can see that you definitely have made an effort to understand ubuntu, and to contribute
<fernando> sabdfl_: thank you
<sabdfl_> i think that membership is on the cards, but i for one think it would be worth waiting a while
<sabdfl_> till there's a clearer track record
<sabdfl_> fair enough?
<OgMaciel> fernando: you should meet the other Brazilians too  ;)
<fernando> sabdfl_: no problem
<mdke> I'm with sabdfl_
<mdke> fernando - stick to dholbach, and you can't go wrong :)
<Seveas> fernando, just pester dholbach with more patches :)
<sabdfl_> ok, so keep at it, and we'll see you in a couple of months OK?
<fernando> sabdfl_: right, thank you by attention
<dholbach> with the speed fernando's working on packages I think it won't take that long
<mdke> nice work fernando, see you soon :)
<Seveas> dholbach, excellent
<Seveas> DarkSun88, you're up next
<DarkSun88> Ok
<DarkSun88> Hi, my name is Michele Angrisano. (Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MicheleAngrisano | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~micheleangrisano). I'm a 18 year old boy living in Naples (Italy). I started using Ubuntu Breezy from March 2006. I'm an active member of Italian Community where I try to help new users to solve their issues.
<mdke> I have a testimonial for DarkSun88
<sabdfl_> hey DarkSun88. where would you say you are making the biggest contribution?
* mdke pastes
<mdke> 22:10:56 <bluekuja> Unfortunately this evening, I wont partecipate to the CC meeting so long to sponsor Michele directly, so I would like to give this cheer to mdke that will be able to comunicate it to CC's members during Michele's turn. He's doing a GREAT job in the italian community providing support in every possible form: irc, forums, wiki pages and translations becoming a reference point for anyone who needs help in our loco-team. I've got the
<imbrandon> mdke, you cut off at "i've got the ....."
<DarkSun88> Thanks mdke
<JanC> no, the server did  ;)
<mdke> ... 22:10:56 <bluekuja> Unfortunately this evening, I wont partecipate to the CC meeting so long to sponsor Michele directly, so I would like to give this cheer to mdke that will be able to comunicate it to CC's members during Michele's turn. He's doing a GREAT job in the italian community providing support in every possible form: irc, forums, wiki pages and translations becoming a reference point for anyone who needs help in our loco-team. I've got
<mdke> damn
<JanC> max. line length exeeded
<welp> it got cut off :(
<mdke> [...]  I've got the possibility to work with him on some packaging activities related to merging/patching fields too, and I think he will keep doing such a good work in  the future! Thanks and good luck Michele!
<DktrKranz> I would like to cheer Michele too.
<DktrKranz> He's very active in Italian Community, especially in documentation and support to other users.
<DktrKranz> He started to work with MOTUs too, he did a great job by smashing some PHP 4 unmetdeps bug
<welp> right folks, i'm off to bed... Seveas, don't forget the stuff i said about sacater ;)
<welp> gnight all.
<DktrKranz> Feisty is a better place thanks to his work :)
<mdke> I also can big him up, I've worked with him in the -it community and he is a good Ubuntero; we made him an irc op and he is doing good work on documentation with translations. He is patient and has a good attitude to open source, he doesn't get discouraged
<sacater> bye welp
<Burgundavia> +1 from me, given three strong recommendations and a pretty good track record of work
<Seveas> mdke, I assume that's also a +1 from you :)
<mdke> yeah
<Seveas> looking very good
<mdke> we need more italian members :D
<Seveas> hehe
<MikeB-> +1 from me, great work
<DktrKranz> +1 :P
<sabdfl_> +1 from me too
<DarkSun88> I'm very interested to join MOTU one day
<DarkSun88> :)
* welp prefers gentoo's german conspiracy *hides*
<Seveas> elmo, ?
<dholbach> DarkSun88: do you have any plans for MOTU? anything you'd like to work on?
<elmo> sorry, just catching up, 2 secs
<Seveas> ok
<sacater> welp: sleep
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> xcellent
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<DarkSun88> dholbach: Merge and Patch
<DarkSun88> :)
<DarkSun88> dholbach: I've just started working on packaging stuff, developing mostly merge and syncs packages
<Seveas> welcome aboard DarkSun88 !
<Seveas> bdmurray, is next
<dholbach> DarkSun88: great - thanks a lot
<mdke> I'm going to duck out soon
<bdmurray> Hello!  I work for Canonical as a Quality Assurance Engineer. My areas of responsibility include managing the Ubuntu QA team, keeping an eye out for important bugs and creating methods for triaging and reporting bugs more effectively. As such I've triaged more than a thousand bugs (my best lowball guess).  My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianMurray .
<DarkSun88> Thanks :D
<DarkSun88> DktrKranz: Thanks a lot
<DarkSun88> mdke: Thank
<DarkSun88> :D
<keescook> i'm here to cheer bdmurray on; he's been doing great work, and is a very quick learner.
<Seveas> bdmurray, I'm curious, when did you start bugwork? I stopped doing it months ago and got out of touch
<mdke> I've been seriously impressed with the way that bdmurray slotted into the community quickly and smoothly
<bdmurray> Seveas: mid December
<Burgundavia> I can echo mdke's words
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-30
<mdke> the guy rocks
<Seveas> He's a lousy poker player though ;)
<ajmitch> he's also been very encouraging of other community members doing bug work
<mdke> oh, hang on then
<Mithrandir> bdmurray has done a fantastic job on the 7.04 release and it would have been significantly worse if it wasn't for his efforts.
<ajmitch> Seveas: can you hold that against him though?
<Seveas> ajmitch, not really
* mdke rubs out his +1 on grounds of poker
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> one down, 5 to go
<mdke> me too
<dholbach> having worked with bdmurray directly, +1 from me too
<MikeB-> +1
<mdke> pleasure to have you with us bdmurray
<bdmurray> thanks everyone
<Seveas> sabdfl_, Burgundavia ?
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<imbrandon> forget poker , how about mao
<mdke> ok, I'm off. Apologies to other candidates
<Seveas> effie_jayx, you're up next, please paste your introduction whilst we wait for sabdfl_ to return
<Seveas> by mdke!
<keescook> \o/
<kalon33> bye mdke !
<effie_jayx> My Name is efrain Valles, I am sharing the Ubuntu LoCo team Contact in ubuntu-ve (Venezuelan Team) duties with Rolando Blanco. I am a member of a Local Lug (VELUG-MCBO) I am currently running a LUG at my University and I promote the use of ubuntu giving talks and much rencently I have started going out and putting together events to foster the use of ubuntu. I am also a OP at #ubuntu-ve. My day job I am an EFL (English as a Foreign Language) te
<OgMaciel> good luck effie_jayx :)
<effie_jayx> acher and I am hopong I can bridge my to Passions one day. I am a student of Computer Engineering. and Love programming. my wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles.
<Seveas> We still have quorum, with the other 5 (so I hope sabdfl actually returns)
<Seveas> <nixternal> effie_jayx rocks out a lot of marketing stuff and does way more than I do with Marketing
<elkbuntu> Efrain definatly gets my vote. He's enthusiastic, capable and most of all, he's an excellent team player. He is one of the main reasons the venezuelan LoCo rocks as much as they do.
<effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  :)
<dholbach> effie_jayx: you want to become a MOTU: did you get in touch with any MOTUs already? is there anything you'd like to work on specifically?
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  I have tried... have started doing some bug triaging... but that was probably a month ago
<Burgundavia> effie_jayx: why do you say you translating outside the official teams?
<effie_jayx> Burgundavia,  I just wanted to say I make suggestions for the team
<Burgundavia> right
<effie_jayx> Burgundavia,  I am not an approved translator... I did join the team
<effie_jayx> but the approval is hard :S
<Burgundavia> ahh
<JanC> effie_jayx: you asked that question about sponsoring by companies in the locoteams channel ?
<effie_jayx> JanC,  yes I did. I just wanted to gt a wider scope on sponsorship.
<dholbach> effie_jayx: it'd be nice to have you join the team - please let me know how that goes
<JanC> right, so I know you thought about it carefully and asked other people for their opinion  :)
<elkbuntu> back in december, effie_jayx almost single-handedly reunited the venezuelan team with the rest of the ubuntu community
<effie_jayx> JanC,  I did... when in doubt consult others...
* WRATHCHILD cheers up effie_jayx !!!
<effie_jayx> elkbuntu,  it was your inspirational talk :D
<elkbuntu> :)
<effie_jayx> I became very involved in the community stuff because of UbuntuOpen Week
<Seveas> elkbuntu, ftw :)
<elkbuntu> Seveas, effie_jayx ftw ;)
<Seveas> both
<Seveas> so, why are there no +1's yet? :)
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<sabdfl_> +1 from me on effie_jayx
<MikeB-> +1 here
<sabdfl_> excellent community work
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> sabdfl_, and bdmurray ?
<dholbach> +1 from me too, hope to see you as an approved translator and motu soon :)
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  you bet :D
<Seveas> welcome aboard effie_jayx !
<OgMaciel> congrats effie_jayx
<effie_jayx> :D
<WRATHCHILD> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDD
<effie_jayx> thanks you all
<Seveas> sacater, you're up
<sacater> Hi, my name is Sam Cater, Im 14 years old and from the UK. Ive been
<sacater> using Ubuntu for about a year now.
<sacater> I mostly do Launchpad Q+A and help in IRC when I can, I can also do
<sacater> basic packaging and bug work.
<sacater> Quick Links:
<sacater> Launchpad: http://launchpad.net/~sacater
<sacater> Karma: http://launchpad.net/~sacater/+karma
<sacater> Answers History: http://answers.launchpad.net/~sacater
<sacater> Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/sacater
<sacater> Seveas: dont forget to paste what welp said
<Seveas> * ScottK has to go in a few moments.  I'd like to speak in favor of membership for sacater when the time comes.  He is clearly very enthusiastic and committed to Ubuntu.  My only suggestion would actually be to dial back his enthusiasm a bit as his interest in helping sometimes exceeds his experience, but that will come in time.  I think he would make a good addition to Ubuntu members.
<Seveas> <welp> (as i'm sure you can tell from my hostmask, i'm a gentoo developer). i was the one who introduced him to linux, and i'm always pleasantly surprised at how much he can learn in a short amount of time... he's a good guy.
<Seveas> don't worry sacater :)
<sacater> Seveas: theres more from welp
<sacater> oh
<sacater> wait
<sacater> scratch that :P
<Seveas> :)
<sacater> carry on :D
<imbrandon> I also would like to vouch for sacater he is a quick study in -motu and often is eager to help point people in the right direction
<JanC> sacater: you mean where he said you should get some sleep?  :P
<Burgundavia> ok, now I feel old
<sacater>  welp:  well, i dunno what he does in ubuntuland, all i can really say is that he's a fast learner, really
<sacater>              willing, knows how to look for information, that kinda stuff :)
<Seveas> Burgundavia, he's not just younger, he also seems to have an infinte amount of energy :)
<sacater> JanC: i havnt slept in 38 hours
<sacater> :P
<sacater> i have proof but thats for another time :P
* elkbuntu hands Burgundavia a walking stick
<imbrandon> Burgundavia, haha me 3
<JanC> sacater: sleep is good for the quality of your work
<sacater> JanC: :D
<JanC> sacater: i'm serious
<AndyP> not to mention your health :)
<sacater> JanC: like Seveas said, I have plenty of health
<sacater> energy*
<sabdfl_> sacater, i've heard good things about your contributions
<sacater> dont worry, im sleeping properly tonight
<sacater> sabdfl_: :D
<sabdfl_> what is it that you think you bring to Ubuntu, and what is it that you think Ubuntu can bring to others?
<sacater> I bring help to those who need or request it, and ubuntu brings friendship and community to others
<sacater> pochu: vouch me please
<sacater> pochu: membership application is right now :o
<pochu> @now
* sacater nods
<dholbach> sacater: impressive work on the answers tracker - you're involved in the cubuntu team (I didn't know it even exists), how's work going on there?
<sacater> dholbach: i havnt noticed that much activity personally, but yes, its a command-line deriritive
<sacater> hope I spelt that right
<Burgundavia> derivative, actually, but we will forgive you for it :)
<pochu> I can confirm sacater has been helping new users, and triaging some bugs :)
<cypherbios> :)
<sacater> whoot!
<Burgundavia> impressive karma
<sacater> thanks
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I notice he mentions you on his wiki page
<elmo> hmm, sacater is this you're second time around?
<sacater> yes
<sacater> first time I was told to give it a month or 2 more
<sacater> to prove i wasnt grab and run
<sacater> 'get the membership and do nothing'
<elmo> heh - when was that?
<sacater> er
<elmo> (roughly)
<sacater> about a month and a half back
<Seveas> yup
<Seveas> april 17
<sabdfl_> +1 from me on sacater
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda?action=recall&rev=800
<elmo> yeah, +1 - thanks for coming back :)
<sacater> sabdfl_: thanks
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<sacater> elmo: thanks
<sacater> Burgundavia: thanks
<sacater> :D
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<Seveas> MikeB- ?
<sacater> dholbach: :D
<MikeB-> +1 here, and get off my lawn:)
<Seveas> hehe
<Burgundavia> get 'm young, my mother always said :)
<sacater> gah
<Seveas> excellent work, welcome sacater !
<sacater> WHOOT!
<Seveas> sfair, you're next
<AndyP> sacater: congrats
<sfair> so, let's go. My name is Rafael Sfair and I'm one of the administrators of the Ubuntu Brazilian Documentation team.
<sacater> AndyP: ty
<sfair> Most of my work is helping to organize the team and creating new documentation.
<sfair> You can find a list of some contribuitions in my wikipage (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RafaelSfair) and my LP page (https://launchpad.net/~sfair), and some contributions maybe can't be directly measured :)
<OgMaciel> my testimonial pretty much says everything I wanted to say in support for sfair
<Seveas> I'm impressed with sfairs wikipage, good work!
<sfair> thanks to cypherbios that helped me :)
<cypherbios> I gave my testimonial in this wikipage, but here is a bit more:
<cypherbios> Sfair is one of the greatest contributors of the Ubuntu-BR community. Hi works hard on our documentation team (ubuntu-br-doc) and is also a Official translator for pt_BR. Always helps people who wants to contribute pointing them to the right path, if there's someone who I support would be sfair (as well  n3t0 too ;) ). His advocate in the Ubuntu Brazilian community is something amazing to see. I completely agree and support sfair's m
<cypherbios> embership.
<Burgundavia> I see some solid contributions and good testimonials
<sabdfl_> sfair: we love physicists round here :-)
<sabdfl_> +1 from me on the back of strong recommendations from team-BR
<sfair> sabdfl_: are there more?? im not th only one? im so happy! :D
<cypherbios> a very very geeky guy, indeed !
<Burgundavia> +1 from me
<sabdfl_> sfair: would you see if you can get in touch with the guys who build Scientific Linux?
<sabdfl_> i think they are from Fermilab
<MikeB-> +1 here
<sabdfl_> i'd like to meet them
<sabdfl_> see if they would do a version based on Ubuntu too
<sfair> sabdfl_: it's one of my goals...
<elmo> +1
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<sfair> sabdfl_: it wuld be amazing
<sfair> *would
<Seveas> That's +5, welcome aboard sfair!
<sfair> thanks :)
<cypherbios> :D
<Seveas> n3t0, you're up now
<cypherbios> congrats sfair!!
<OgMaciel> sfair does all of his research on Ubuntu, isn't that right sfair?
<sfair> OgMaciel: yes... all my work
<n3t0> My name is Alysson Neto and I'm  one of the administrators of the Brazilian Ubuntu Forum, also I'm a member of the Ubuntu Brazilian Doc Team
<n3t0> where I have the function to find material tu put in the wiki. You can find a list of some contribuitions in wiki wikipage (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlyssonNeto) and my LP page (https://launchpad.net/~alysson-neto)
<kalon33> congrats sfair
<OgMaciel> n3t0: could you paste some stats about the volume (network) traffic the forum currently generates?
<n3t0> 11819 members
<Burgundavia> I might add: I love the recommendations stuff the Brazillian people are putting on their pages
<n3t0> 108080 posts
<Burgundavia> it makes it a lot easier to make decisions
<n3t0> 19258 topics
<Burgundavia> other loco teams might want to take note
<cypherbios> Burgundavia: thanks, we do our best in all :)
<FaBMak> n3t0 is a co-worker and a friend in Ubuntu-BR Forum, together we do improvements and support it. I can say that he really like Ubuntu and our community.
<OgMaciel> the Brazilian Forum (and other portuguese languages)  has a rock solid team of administrators/moderators and n3t0 is doing an amazing job with the limited support they have
<cypherbios> n3t0 is one of the guys responsible to keep our *huge* ubuntu forum for portuguese speakers (include people from brazil, portugal and many others countries who speaks PT). His works is awesome in the forum administration, such as posting moderation as well system administration related stuff. I agree and support his membership.
<Seveas> impressive, how many brazilian ubuntu members do we have now?
<sfair> and n3t0 in and important link betweek the ubuntu-br-doc and forum
<OgMaciel> Seveas: approx. 15?
<sabdfl_> hmm... i wonder if we should not have a team in .BR where we delegate membership for local advocacy, translation, infrastructure work
<cypherbios> Seveas: 15
<Seveas> OgMaciel, I thought there would be more, but 15 already is a lot :)
<OgMaciel> sabdfl_: we've been thinking along the same lines here too
<cypherbios> most likely in the next meeting Ubuntu-BR LoCo will be around here ;)
<OgMaciel> Seveas: we prefer that our users spend some time doing work before we point them to the CC
<Seveas> are we ready to vote or are there still questions?
<Burgundavia> not from me
<sabdfl_> +1 from me on the back of forums admin work
<Burgundavia> +1 to the Brazillian horde^WWW n3t0
<dholbach> I'm happy with n3t0, +1 from me
<Seveas> elmo, MikeB- ?
<MikeB-> +1 here
<elmo> +1
<Seveas> woohoo
<OgMaciel> congrats n3t0
<Seveas> welcome n3t0
<OgMaciel> :)
<Seveas> yarddog, you're up
<cypherbios> n3t0: :)
<n3t0> thanks a lot
<FaBMak> congrats n3t0
<tritium> Seveas: I don't believe yarddog was able to attend
<Seveas> his idle time seems to indicate that
<Seveas> profoX`, then you're up
<profoX`> euhm okay :)
<profoX`> Good night everyone (or possibly evening for some of you). I am Wesley Stessens (profoX) and I became a very active Ubuntu user and supporter in the last few years. I am very active in the NL and BE locoteams. I help to maintain the Dutch website and forum. I translate USN's to Dutch. I try to get involved with the rest of the community as much as I can.. Occasionally I travel far to be able to represent Ubuntu in Belgium and The
<profoX`> Netherlands. But I also try to do other things. I am chipping in everywhere I can. Marketing (ubuntu shirts for BE, ubuntu-nl magazine), Support (forums, IRC), Moderation (website, forums), Advocacy (everywhere), Programming, Packaging... You can read the wikipage for a more thorough description of all my activities in (and related to) Ubuntu; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WesleyStessens
<tritium> Seveas: I came on his behalf
<dholbach> Seveas: didn't he mail and said that he can't make it, and tritium would speak for him?
<Seveas> dholbach, maybe he mailed to community-council@, I don't get that mail
<dholbach> Seveas: he CCed you :-)
<Seveas> besides, we've never done 'speaking on behalf' and I don't see a rason to make an exception
<dholbach> right, ok
<dholbach> that's fine with me
<tritium> I'll pass that along to him.
<dholbach> thanks tritium
<tritium> Thanks, dholbach.
<Seveas> dholbach, odd, I don't see mail from him
<Burgundavia> Seveas: I can confirm that you were cc'ed
<tritium> Was he given any form of reply?
* tritium was not copied on anything
<Burgundavia> not that I see
<Seveas> Burgundavia, can you pm me the from address? I'll grep through amavis' quarantine
<dholbach> ahhhh dennis@ubuntu.com vs seveas@ubuntu.com
<Seveas> dholbach, heh
<Seveas> indeed seveas@ does not exist, although some people seem to think it does :)
<Burgundavia> be nice if LP could do aliases liek that
<Seveas> anyway, back to the subject of profoX`
<Burgundavia> sabdfl_: ^
<Seveas> I want to cheer for him, he's doing massive amountsof work on the dutch forums, and other parts of the dutch locoteam
<JanC> I've seen profoX` being active on the ubuntu-nl forums & IRC too
<AndyP> good work on the wiki page, impressive stuff
<elmo> +1
* ablomen chears for profoX` too
<ablomen> *cheers
<Burgundavia> +1 based on that
<dholbach> +1 from me too
<MikeB-> +1
<JanC> and he has a nice blog in Dutch that explains things in a readable way
<JanC> :)
<dholbach> with that, I have too leave now
<Seveas> dholbach, ok, goodnight!
<dholbach> have a nice evening everybody and see you tomorrow
<sabdfl_> awesome wiki page
<sabdfl_> +1 from me!
<Seveas> nice
<Seveas> good job profoX` !
<kalon33> good night dholbach
<sabdfl_> night dholbach
<profoX`> yea.. I did my homework :)
<Burgundavia> do we still have quorum?
<Seveas> And this unfortunately ends todays meting as we now no longer have quorum :(
<kalon33> I have to mail you about telepathy stuff soon...
<sabdfl_> for members, yes
<Seveas> sabdfl_, no, we're now 4 of 8, we need 5 according to what we agreed on earlier :)
<JanC> (too many Dutch/Flemish people blog in English)
<MikeB-> I have to leave in 15 minute, my wife teach tonight and I have to pick up my son
<sabdfl_> for members? i think 3/4 is fine
<sabdfl_> if there's a controversial decision, we can set tighter guidelines
<sabdfl_> but i don't think we should block memebrships on high quorum
<sabdfl_> in fact, i think we should delegate more
<sabdfl_> any objections?
<tritium> Seveas: could someone give yarddog a reply please?
<Seveas> tritium, I will
<tritium> Thank you.
<JanC> profoX`: it seems like you forgot to mention you wrote some patches for beryl too   ;)
<Seveas> No objections yet, so let's continu with memberships
<profoX`> JanC: yes but that was no big deal.. just small bugfixes and very small enhancements
<sabdfl_> ok, we have 4 to go
<Burgundavia> 4 if it is unanimous?
<Seveas> pleia2, you're next on the list
<pleia2> Hi, I'm Elizabeth Bevilacqua. I've been working with the Ubuntu-Women Project for just over a year, I now an admin on the website, wiki and am the contact for #Ubuntu-Women.
<pleia2> ore recently I've helped launch the US-PA Loco Team, where I admin the website and planet, op in IRC and have participated in and helped organize a few events.
<pleia2> s/ore/More
<Seveas> Burgundavia, so far there are only unanimous decisions when it comes to membership (only a few +0's)
<Seveas> :)
<yarddog> i am here now
<Burgundavia> Seveas: there have been disagreements in the past
* elkbuntu cheers loudly for pleia2
* towsonu2003 cheers for pleia2 who is a Debian package maintainer and a very good ubuntu-women project contributor - not to mention her level of awareness in women's issues as they relate to Linux and computing. 
<Burgundavia> pleia2: anybody from the -pa loco team?
<dinda> Pleia2 has been doing some amazing work for the ubuntu community;  and brings lots of upstream knowledge (Debian package maintainer) and linuxchix
<Susana> I'm here to cheer for pleia2, she has done a great effort to dynamize the ubuntu-women project and she's one of its greatest contributers. She has always been very wise in her decisions i think she'll be a great member.
<yarddog> Seveas: i am here now
* jedijf cheers YO! from philly in pa loco for pleia2
<elmo> +1
<AndyP> strong fanclub :)
* etank cheers for pleia2. She is very active in the PA LoCo and Ubuntu Women.
<Seveas> yarddog, excellent!
<Burgundavia> +1
<MikeB-> +1
<Burgundavia> yay for more women to bridge our awful gender inequality
<pleia2> :)
<Seveas> yarddog, prepare a few lines of introduction so you can paste them when we call you. Pm me when ready
<kalon33> AndyP: yes, what a good fanclub :p
<yarddog> Seveas: ok
<dinda> she's a rock star
<kalon33> lol dinda ^^
<Seveas> dinda, speaking of which, where's the movie of mark and me?
<JanC> no, she's a princess ;)
<tritium> I am sshed in from work, but have to leave.  I support yarddog's applications, as he has been instrumental in helping with the creation of the New Mexico LoCO, #ubuntu-newmexico, the mailing list, requseting the LoCO bot, recruiting members, etc.
<dinda> seveas - being saved for the 'right' moment to reveal  ;-)
<sabdfl_> tritium: we'd love to have him, let's see if a better timed meeting comes along
<Seveas> dinda, I want to see it :)
<tritium> sabdfl_: okay, I understand.  Thank you.
<sabdfl_> pleia2: could you give us a quick state-of-the-nation on U-W?
<Seveas> sabdfl_, he's here now :)
<dinda> seveas - I'll add it to my 2do list - promise
<Burgundavia> unfortunately I need to run
<Seveas> hmm, the CC is falling apart :/
<Burgundavia> we are past 2 hours...
<pleia2> sabdfl_: we're currently working on a few projects we have out there - gathering mentors for our mentoring program and courses; and waiting on some informaiton from the recent UDS to move forward with more HCI stuff
<elkbuntu> Seveas, the meeting has hit 2hrs
<kalon33> sure elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> kalon33, hmm?
<MikeB-> any chance to do the last two memberships
<dinda> and we're trying to get Pleia2 to offer an IRC ops course
<pleia2> dinda: working on it!
<MikeB-> Breunellus and Toxicity999
<kalon33> elkbuntu: (about the meeting length)
<Seveas> MikeB-, and yarddog
<sabdfl_> ok, +1 from me mainly on the back of dinda and other recommendations
<Seveas> ok, that's 4 out of 4
<Seveas> yarddog is next (we still have 3 CC members)
<dinda> She's shy but she does amazing work for Ubuntu
<Seveas> welcome aboard pleia2 !
<etank> good job pleia2
<MikeB-> I have 5 minutes:)
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<sabdfl_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Luigi_de_guzman
<Brunellus> I'm Luigi de Guzman, aka Brunellus.  I've been an ubuntu user since Warty.  I'm a Forums staff member, an op on #ubuntuforums, a member of the NU Ubuntu Team.
<yarddog> I first started using Ubuntu about 2 years ago and have used various formats of Linux since 2001. In the fall of 2006, I helped start the IRC channel #ubuntu-newmexico on the Freenode IRC Network in conjunction with Ubuntu Member  Michael Rimbert. I have helped in starting the [WWW]  New Mexico Team Launchpad site and the  Team wiki site as well as add the Team to the list of  LoCo's. I requested the locobot for the IRC channe
<sabdfl_> url in the agenda is busted
* dinda cheers loud for Pleia2 and goes to have a drink in her honor!
<yarddog> My goals for the New Mexico Team is to include recruiting LoCo membership, assist fellow users with technical problems where possible, continue to serve the New Mexico Team, assist in getting the New Mexico Team recognized and approved, and overall, be a catalyst for Ubuntu.
<DarkSun88> pleia2: Congratulations.
<Seveas> Brunellus, sabdfl_: yarddog is first
<Brunellus> sabdfl_: should be fixed
<Brunellus> sorry, sabdfl_posted my name.
<sabdfl_> well, +1 from me for Brunellus on the back of being a Forums staff member
<gnomefreak> pleia2: congrats
<Seveas> sabdfl_, are you ignoring me now? :)
<sabdfl_> any other quick acks?
<lamalex> +1 for pleia
<lamalex> sorry it's late
<lamalex> and unneeded
<sabdfl_> Seveas: no, sorry, was just following the agenda, didn't see yarddog arrive
<sabdfl_> welcome yarddog
<MikeB-> +1 for brunellus, a great mod on the forums and a pleasure to work with
<sabdfl_> we've heard many good things about you :-)
<yarddog> hello sabdfl_ :P
<elmo> +1 for brunellus
<sabdfl_> 3/4
<PriceChild> HUGE cheer for Brunellus !!!
* `23meg cheers for Brunellus, who does a great job of steering discussions to constructive ends in the forums
<Seveas> sabdfl_, 3/3 -> Burgundavia left
<sabdfl_> done
<sabdfl_> welcome!
<Brunellus> YAY!
<sabdfl_> yarddog: fire away
<Brunellus> thanks everyone!
<MikeB-> yarddog your wiki is kinda thin, what is your launchpad
<Seveas> sabdfl_, scroll up :)
<sacater> sabdfl_: pm
<yarddog> MikeB-: http://launchpad.net/~jamesbunnell
<Brunellus> Thanks everybody!  I'll get my key signed soon enough.  I'm off to catch a train.
<MikeB-> yarddog: you are off to a good start, but I think you are not quite ready,
<sabdfl_> yarddog: agree with MikeB- on that front, the documentation in wiki and LP is thinner than your number of fans would suggest
<MikeB-> are you invloved in other Ubuntu areas
<yarddog> ive begun getting involved in kubuntu as well
<sabdfl_> it may well be that there's more to the story, but it's not documented there
<sabdfl_> could you spend some time on your profile in the project, then come back?
<sabdfl_> there's no rush
<MikeB-> yarddog: expand your profile and come back, we would love to see you apply again
<yarddog> ok
<sabdfl_> thanks for taking the time to come now, though
<sabdfl_> ok
<Seveas> last one
<sabdfl_> final stop?
<Seveas> Toxicity999,
<hidan> go go toxicity!!! :D
<Toxicity999> Okay then! First, way sorry for holding up the meeting. And some people who I had asked to come help me out with some words of love couldn't make it, but moving on to the goodies!
<cypherbios> toxicity, like SOAD. cool! :)
<Toxicity999> Lol
<Toxicity999> Yes.
<Toxicity999> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BryanHaskins
<Toxicity999> Hi, I'm Bryan, I'm 16 years old and I live in Maine, the Canada of the States, and I've been working, as a user, with Ubuntu Since late in the release of hoary (Basically just before breezy) And I have made my mark in the community support sector. I hover the forums answering support needs with a lot of my free time, and even cover lead on the Launchpad (Ubuntu Answers) bit of The Forums Beginners Team. I spend a lot of my time doing
<Toxicity999>  the little things, like walking people through large issues more directly via irc.
<sabdfl_> that's awesome
<Toxicity999> And if you wonder why my Launchpad doesn't exactly reflect my claim to the Beginners team thing, basically we haven't 100% organized the Launchpad end yet. But you can see I lead the LP team on my account there. :D
<MikeB-> Toxicity999 does good work on the forums
<MikeB-> any other feedback for Toxicity999
<sabdfl_> Toxicity999: are you a forums moderator or staff member?
* Toxicity999 coughs.
<Toxicity999> No, not currently.
<sabdfl_> ok
<sabdfl_> it seems you are helping in a very nice way
<MikeB-> sabdfl_: he is on a couple of our teams, not a moderator/staff
<Seveas> MikeB-, do something about that kthxbye ;)
<sabdfl_> Toxicity999: what's your main reason for wanting to become a member?
<MikeB-> I do have to go
<Seveas> MikeB-, can we rcord a vote on Toxicity999 ?
<Toxicity999> Well, I think that there is a certain level of trust which comes with it. I mean sure, it feels nice for me, some kind of accomplishment, but It seems as though users put more faith in you when they notice you.
<MikeB-> I think Toxicity999 is off to a good start, but I would like to see more
<Toxicity999> A lot of what I do is just really hard to tally, I think.
<DBO> I know its a little late, but woo woo Toxicity999 =)
<Toxicity999> I've been way more active on IRC lately. Whcih without scouring the logs and such kind of hard to quantify.
<hidan> oh good to go toxicity
<Toxicity999> This is a really awkward silence =D
<MikeB-> Toxicity999: I say keep up the good work and come back in a couple of month
<hidan> awwww toxic... hmm.
<MikeB-> PM me in the forums and we can work on quanify your work in th wiki
<MikeB-> Mike in the forums
<MikeB-> later all
<MikeB-> I must get
<Toxicity999> Alright, I think it might of worked out if more of the people I was hoping to show up would have =S they were all busy tonight.
<sabdfl_> sorry
<Seveas> ok, so that concludes todays meeting (now we really have no quorum).
<sabdfl_> wrapping up for the night here
<hidan> huh
<sabdfl_> you're in good shape Toxicity999, but not there yet
<Seveas> Toxicity999, good luck next time, I'm sure you'll make it!
<sabdfl_> keep going!
<sabdfl_> seveas, it's just you and me!
<sabdfl_> and elmo
<Toxicity999> Understood =]  Thanks.
<Seveas> datetim for next meeting?
<sabdfl_> heh. whenever WE want :-)
* sacater listens
<sabdfl_> perhaps something early UTC, for the Asian side of the world?
<Toxicity999> Well now it just has to be when it's inconvenient for the ditchers, hehe.
<Seveas> june 13, 09:00 UTC?
<Seveas> (edubuntu has the room 14:00-16:00)
<elmo> fine by me, FWIW
<elmo> maybe ask the list before confirming though?
<Seveas> yeah, will do
* Seveas needs to go to bed as well, as the alarmbells will ring in 5 hours
<sabdfl_> aaahm
<sabdfl_> i think i'm in the USA on that date
<Seveas> launchpad will be poked tomorrow
<sabdfl_> so i won't be up for that one :-(
<sabdfl_> thanks seveas
<sabdfl_> thanks elmo
<effie_jayx> sabdfl_,  thanks
<Seveas> sabdfl_, available online if we make it a more reasonable USA time?
<sabdfl_> welcome again effie_jayx
<mneptok> effie_jayx: congrats
<sabdfl_> Seveas: i'll be jetlagged, so hard to predict
<Seveas> ok
<hidan> sabdfl = mark, right? O_o;; wow... but thanks for establishing canonical, mark.
<sabdfl_> don't block on me, my travel schedule is a nightmare in the next 3 months
<nixternal> lol
<effie_jayx> mneptok,  :D
<sabdfl_> you're welcome, hidan
<Seveas> okay, I'll poke the CC list then. g'night for now
<sabdfl_> night all!
* Seveas out
<hidan> =) see you!
<nixternal> g'nite sabdfl_
<DarkSun88> G'night all
<nixternal> congrats to all of the new members btw!
<nixternal> good job!
<sacater> tan
<sacater> thanks
<DarkSun88> Thanks
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  thanks for you vow :D
* mneptok needs to get off his butt and apply at some point
<nixternal> np effie_jayx, anytime!
<ajmitch> mneptok: on the basis of your good looks & stunning charm?
<profoX`> good night everyone; thanks nixternal
<mneptok> ajmitch: no, i thought i my try something not so laughable.
<mneptok> *might
<kalon33> good night all !!
<kalon33> and congrats again for all who join us !
<effie_jayx> kalon33,  thanks :D
<DarkSun88> kalon33: Thanks. :)
<kalon33> you're welcome ;)
<guglielf> DarkSun88: congrats from italy too ;)
<kalon33> bye, it' about 1:30 AM here :p
<DarkSun88> guerby: Thanks a lot :D
<kalon33> so time to sleep ^^
<DarkSun88> G'night and thanks for the membership
<jsgotangco> i guess it has ended huh
<Burgundavia> yep, yer missed it
<Burgundavia> :0
<Burgundavia> :), rather
<jsgotangco> its alright its like 7:30 am here :P
<Burgundavia> heh
<profoX`> jsgotangco: where do you live?
<jsgotangco> the meeting started like 5am
<jsgotangco> profoX`: manila, philippines
* jsgotangco reads the logs
<profoX`> jsgotangco: ow that's far away :)
<jsgotangco> profoX`: fortunately the council membership is big enough and spread on timezones so not everyone is required to be online, just a majority
<ypsila> uhh
<ypsila> alive
* ypsila is leaving
<amachu>  hi
<RichEd> hello edubunuteros
<RichEd> get your coffee now ... open: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<RichEd> we'll kick off in 3 min
* ogra waves
* RichEd waves back ...
<ogra> soo
<RichEd> hi all ...
<RichEd> Technical :  We're looking at specs for Edubuntu Gutsy+1
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap a list is here
<RichEd> ogra: explain the soec process nicely for me ... do all specs that we want considered for Gutsy have to be registerd by tomorrow
<RichEd> *spec process
<ogra> yes
<RichEd> and who sets the priorities ?
<ogra> thats our job
<RichEd> assuming we agree on them here today, who actually tags them him/medium/low
<ogra> (we should look into letting the EC handle that in the future probably, not sure)
<ogra> i can do the prio setting
<ogra> and set you as the approver
<ogra> then you go through them and approve or decline them for gutsy
<RichEd> okay ... when does the "approve decline" need to be done by ?
<ogra> (i think we should even approve the ones that will take two releases for gutsy and note down in the whiteboard thast the spec is expected to go over two releases)
<RichEd> and how does the high/medium/low relate to the release ... it there a "hard link" or is it just an indication of work effort ?
<ogra> RichEd, asap i dont think there is a deadline though and it should suffice to do it through the next week
<ogra> as i said in #edubuntu, from my POV all high prio specfs have to be done by release
<highvoltage> good afternoon
<pips1_away> hi folks, unfortunately, I'm in another meeting, but I'll try to join you towards the end, for community agenda bit
<ogra> mid *can* slip into next release
<ogra> low is a "if we get to it" prio
<pips1_away> hi highvoltage, please see ^^^
<highvoltage> pips1_away: yep, saw that. I'll ping you a bit later this afternoon too.
<RichEd> ogra: noted ... so that is a soft link it is better to create a release and allocate and approve for the release ?
<ogra> low should be the ones that are integrateable easily by community members as well
<RichEd> and can we create a release for gutsy+1 and allocate some specs against that now ? or is that something we should rather manage through wiki page(s)
<ogra> lauchpasd already has that function, we just need to set the release
<ogra> if its not a feature yet to allocate to distro+1 we'll need to do a feature request, that an essential feature imho
<ogra> but i think it is
<RichEd> okay ... I'll try to outline the current feature set and the next featrure set in a wiki page to provide a 12 month planning cycle from a human readable perspective (and link to the existing LP specs).
<RichEd> current as in current dev cycle (not existing feature set)
<ogra> hmm, i'm just in a spec page
<ogra> you cant propose it for gutsy+1
<ogra> and you are the approvedr for ldm-improvements now :)
<RichEd> okay ... so we can manage via a wiki page then ...
<RichEd> thanks
<RichEd> (I think)
<ogra> but we should propose it for gutsy as well, so its on the radar
<RichEd> allright ... so throwing this open to the floor ...
<RichEd> highvoltage: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures
<ogra> the "Propose as goal" option in the spec has a comments field, we can not it there
<RichEd> oops ... autocomplete ... let me try that again
<highvoltage> heh
<RichEd> HIGH-PRIORITY: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures
<RichEd> MEDIUM: ltsp-update-manager-integration, ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices, edubuntu-addon-enhancements, edubuntu-menus-completion, edubuntu-documentation-procedures
<ogra> you wanted the doc stuff there as well
* highvoltage was a bit worried that RichEd is handling over all of that to me
<ogra> (in high)
<ogra> right, we'll need to assign them to people as well if they are approved
<RichEd> LOW:  all the rest
<RichEd> --- that's from oliver ---
<RichEd> RichEd asked for documentation to move up to HIGH
* RichEd will be back in a sec ... anyone else want to comment in the meanwhile ?
* RichEd is back
<RichEd> so the lists are then with my change:
<ogra> hmm, i cant change the prio of ldm-improvements
<RichEd> HIGH-PRIORITY: ltsp-boot-performance, ldm-improvements, edubuntu-application-review, edubuntu-artwork-procedures,  edubuntu-documentation-procedures
<ogra> not even if i set myself to be approver
<RichEd> any idea why ?
<ogra> no. but i'll find that out, dont worry
<ogra> i guess because ubuntu owns it
<ogra> (nothing we need to clearify during the meeting though)
<RichEd> okay ... then how will this work" "we'll need to assign them to people as well if they are approved"
<RichEd> when does each spec need an assigneee by ?
<ogra> you set the asignee field to someone :)
<ogra> we should assign them while approving
<ogra> or right after
<RichEd> by when does that need to be done ? and what happens if a spec is approved, and no-one assigned ... does it just lie there, or does some sort of action / notification get triggered ?
<ogra> mainly it will be vagrant and me anyway
<ogra> all high prio specs *need* to be assigned
<RichEd> (forgive the LP newbie questions, but I'm trying to get an outside perspective :)
<ogra> all others are up to our liking
<RichEd> now how do we balance the work effort vs the time available to the resources ...
<ogra> (that goes hand in hand with my priorization of "has to be done by relese", "can wait til next for finishing", "if we get to it"
<ogra> gut feeling ?
<ogra> jno idea ... that depends on the spec
<RichEd> is it just up to each person to be mature in estimating what they can handle ?
<ogra> i.e. the ltsp-boot-performance thing is an ongoing process with many many small aspects
<RichEd> ideally, we'd want to accurately define:
<ogra> you cant set a timeline for that
<RichEd> * what needs to be done
<ogra> but you can for things like ldm gets a new gui
<RichEd> * what we can cope with with the existing resources
<RichEd> * GAP in resources and what we need to meet the target
<ogra> right
<ogra> the spec should usually tell us how much ressources are needed
<ogra> or at least give a base for a guesstimate
<RichEd> I'm referring more to specs we need to have addressed, but for which we have no resources ... given that we have permission to recruit at least 1 new developer.
<ogra> as i see it many ltsp specs will be assigned to vagrant anyway i will keep one or two (and we'll work together on most stuff upstream anyway)
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o PriceChild]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-b %*!*@ubuntu/bot/ubotu]  by PriceChild
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o PriceChild]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<ogra> ltsp-palm-devices is something sbalneav is doing for his company anyway
<ogra> so we could assign it to him  ...
<RichEd> okay.
<ogra> (he will do it upstream no mateter if there is a spec ;) )
<ogra> *matter
<PriceChild> (Sorry for the noise there, we forgot to unban after the CC when everyone was using @now)
<RichEd> so assming we pick up a new developer in say July, how do we allocate a spec to an as yet undetermined staff member ?
<RichEd> *assuming
<ogra> ltsp update-manager integration is something i can take ... as well as the addon enhancements
<ogra> they adress the same app
<ogra> or nearly the same
<ogra> RichEd, i would act like we have nobody for now and then he can pick up mid or low prio ones for getting warm with us :)
<ogra> (or she, who knows)
<RichEd> indeed :)
<RichEd> can you change the allocated person mid way through a cycle ?
<ogra> i wouldnt expect someone who starts in the middle of a cycle to be on full speed from day one on
<ogra> sure
<RichEd> okay ... so we can allocate some to you in the meanwhile, and reassign depending on the level of resource we pick up if needs be.
<ogra> especially since feature freeze is already on august 16th
<ogra> so he/she wont have much time to work into it
<ogra> a new developer would have to help me with milestone releases and iso builds rather, thats something that will be going on at that time
* RichEd nods
<ogra> so i could concentrate more on the features i'm already working on
<RichEd> anything else for specs for today then ? I
<ogra> not really, i will see to get the prios set and you as approver
<ogra> then i'll notify you
<RichEd> I'll out some sort of overview page together bridging the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap page and the LP info ...
<ogra> and next meeting we should hand out specs to people (assign)
<RichEd> And use that to put the soft comments against, especially the specs we *need* for gutsy+1
<ogra> right
<RichEd> That's fine with me.
<RichEd> What else under technical ...
<ogra> next meeting is also an evening meeting ...
<ogra> so we should have sbalneav and LaserJock around
<RichEd> (at the moment it looks like you & me in here at the moment with occasional murmer from highvoltage)
<ogra> actually we should have everyone who would like to help with specs here
<ogra> well, vagrantc is surely following in curiosity
* vagrantc nods
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes, I have quite a bad cold which seems to have started this afternoon, so it's quite literally a murmer
<ogra> and full of excitement about all the tgreat specs we'll assign him *g*
<vagrantc> starting mid-cycle is definitely an issue for me
<RichEd> highvoltage: not a complaint at all :)
* highvoltage can already see vagrantc playing with his beard while reading
<vagrantc> highvoltage: mustache, actually.
<RichEd> vagrantc: do you have any idea when you would be able to dig in for full time commitment /
<ogra> vagrantc, well, given that you work on much stuff upstream already anyway i dont see much probs here
<vagrantc> RichEd: still in contract negotiations... if all works out, early july?
<RichEd> great ... the sooner the better for all of us :)
<ogra> vagrantc, cant you get the paper stuff sent to someone you meet at debconf ?
* vagrantc is still waiting on responses
<ogra> oh, ok
<highvoltage> ohno, I hoped vagrantc would've joined by now :(
<ogra> me too
<RichEd> me three
<ogra> but seems we have to wait until the paperwork is done
<ogra> anyway, on other tech notes i managed to shove off 10 seconds from the ltsp bootime on the e2300 (our worst thin client)
<ogra> we're at 113seconds now on that hardeware ... still a long way to go
<ogra> sbalneav is working on a replacement for the python stuff in ldm and said he saw a 20 second speedup there
<ogra> (with a C implementation)
<ogra> he is also working on integration apssword expiry handling
<ogra> *password
<ogra> and it looks really good :)
<highvoltage> ogra: that sounds very promising.
<ogra> yeah
* vagrantc isn't happy with the password handling
<ogra> we'll have a completely new and way faster ldm in gutsy
<ogra> vagrantc, why ?
<vagrantc> ogra: because handling passwords is tricky business, and a shame to have to re-implement otherwise well tested code
<ogra> right, but python seems to cost us 20 seconds
<vagrantc> as long as there's some good security review, it's probably fine.
<ogra> so a C implementaition that cuts these is valuable
<ogra> i will run it through our security team as soon as scott gives me code
<RichEd> anything else on technical for today ?
<ogra> the classmate image is coming along nicely as well, i'm still working on an installer that makes it easy to flash the thing
<ogra> i also managed to get the wlan card working with a new upstream CVS snapshot
<ogra> and am waiting for some binary thing from BenC with the ralink code
<ogra> and on a sidenote i'm just importing vagrants ltsp merges :)
<ogra> thats it from the tech side
<RichEd> okie artwork ...
<RichEd> no one here from artwork at the moment I think
<RichEd> so a quick comment from my side ...
<RichEd> I've been speaking to ken wimer and building a relationship with him ... he will help us out with "finishing off" of ideas or submissions
<RichEd> Will is managing a formal process through the artwork spec, to get this running smoothly.
<RichEd> --
<RichEd> Documentation:
<RichEd> ogra any comments on docs from your side ?
<ogra> well, i sent out a list of existing ltsp docs to edubuntu-users
<RichEd> hi ace_suares
<ace_suares> RichEd: hi!
<ace_suares> RichEd: Just lurking.
<ogra> and i hope some communitsy person picks them up and merges them in a single place
<highvoltage> RichEd: sorry, this is a bit off-topic, but do you know when will is coming back?
<RichEd> highvoltage: i have not seen him around today ... he popped in for a brief minute yesterday, pinged me, and then disappeared
<ogra> preferably under https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<RichEd> ogra: speaking of which, did you respond to chrisK about the correct link for his LTSP .PDF ?
<ogra> RichEd, a week before you sent that mail already
<ogra> we still need a commitment where to locate ltsp now
<RichEd> and what was the correct link ? I don't think I was on the list
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/QuickInstall
<ogra> instead of ThinClientHowto
<RichEd> which raises a point ... how does the average person refer to this ... LTSP or thin-client ?
<ogra> but there needs to me some marketing clarification
<ogra> no idea, thats up to chris :)
<RichEd> which is the most obvious, and do we need referrer pages ?
<ogra> UbutnuLTSP is the help page ...
<RichEd> I'd say that thin client is the way that business people will see it ... and thin client is distro agnostic
<ogra> #and it changed several times (thats the reason why all docs are scattered everywhere)
<ogra> so ii dont want it to change again
<RichEd> but the old school will see it as LTSP
<RichEd> what I'd recommend is a clear "landing page" which can group the other docs for ready refernce and easy location
<ogra> we should let allo the "ThinClient" dosc dies and forward them to the main UbuntuLTSP page, that way both works
<ogra> *all the thinclient docs die
* highvoltage predicts that pure thin clients will die in business in the next 2-3 years
<RichEd> But according to my assertion above, I think that new users / decision makers will be thinking thin client and not LTSP
<ogra> yes, but i'm opposing to change *anything* until we have collected all docs oin one place
<RichEd> I think we should chat to Steve George and Chris Kenyon ... they will be promoting the concept.
<ogra> we have lost a *lot* of documentation due to the different doc moves we have seen in the past
<RichEd> ogra: agreed ...
<RichEd> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<RichEd> ^ that is a good home I think
<ogra> so i'm opposing to change *anything* until its sorted properly first
<RichEd> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/QuickInstall
<RichEd> and that fits neatly
<RichEd> so keep it as that structure ?
<vagrantc> "thin client" does come with some baggage .. i.e. i got the impression part of why they didn't use it in sevilla is bad experiences in the past
<RichEd> then we can "guide" people to that area
<ogra> yeah, and make ThinClientHowto dissapear (integrate it properly in h.u.c) and point all ThinClient referances to it
<ogra> if all is in one place we can move it to "UbuntuThinClient"
<ogra> but please not before :)
<RichEd> is it worth creating a category ThinClient and LTSP and assigning all pages into that
<RichEd> i.e. two categories (not "ThinClient and LTSP")
<ogra> vagrantc, well, thin client is a meta thing ...
<ogra> ubuntu uses ltsp as thin client technology
<vagrantc> yes, i understand this. :P
<RichEd> in the business world, thin client means "less crap for me to install and maintain" to an overworked and underresourced sys admin
<RichEd> so we do not want to lose that audience
<ogra> i would like to have some neutrally named page (all of which is under UbuntuLTSP now) and then just point LTSP or ThinClient pages to autoforward you there
<vagrantc> so, essentially we want to be able to use either depending on who we're talking to.
<RichEd> ogra: are you happy that I add as an action for the next cycle: consolidate LTSP documentation
<ogra> right
<ogra> RichEd, totally
<ogra> even though i hope we'll have it sorted before gutsy :)
<RichEd> I mean as an action for this cycle.
<ogra> but its an easy community task so i'd like to see someone from there to step up
* RichEd was about to add that ... we have impressed users who will help I think'
<ogra> yes, indeed, keep it in mind so we can spec it if we didnt get it done before
<ogra> but my hope is that we'll have it ready before
<RichEd> okay. done. we can comment on the wiki page for actions
<ogra> especilly since its asynchronous to the release cycle
<ogra> so there is no pressure behind it for anyone who wants to peek in
<RichEd> the stakeholders for this are education, ogra, steve, chris, vagrant, matt zim ... so there is enough oompf to get it in a spotlight
<ogra> indeed
<RichEd> okay ... moving on ... I'd like to be out of here by 25 past the hour if I can
<ogra> whats next ?
<RichEd> let's move to planning & management, and then come back for community ... pips1_away wants to stgep in a bit later
<RichEd> #1 Management: Education is Hiring !
<RichEd> we need a developer with classroom experience ... as soon as possible
<RichEd> please ask anyone you think who may be intersted to ping myself or ogra anytime for a chat
<RichEd> pete savage is unfortunately not going to apply at the moment
<RichEd> ogra and I will tidy up a job spec and circulate via the mailing lists
<cliebow> hmmmmmm.
<ogra> we'll likely need to put up a job description
<cliebow> hmmm
* RichEd whistles while cliebow hums
<ogra> but if you know anyone with slight debian experience and much classroom experience, point him to us
<cliebow> does eight grade count as "much experience"?
<RichEd> ideally we'd want someone who could visit a successful school, observe what they use and how, and how it help teaching, and then bring ideas and applications along to us for consideration
<cliebow> godfrey...if we could come up with the equivalent of read180...plato...
<ogra> additionally he/she should take over some edubuntu related tasks as well even though the focus will be "ubuntu and education"
<RichEd> so let me get our positioning statement out here in the open, to qualify what Oliver said above ...
<RichEd> and to clarify the whole Edubuntu and Ubuntu and Education viewpoint ...
<cliebow> i have a resume in at College of the Atlantic right now...should hear something any day..keep me posted??
<RichEd> This is what is emerging:
<RichEd> cliebow: send a short experience description to myself or oliver
<ogra> yeah
<ace_suares> Riched: i might be able to help
<RichEd> ace_suares: by suggesting somone ? or as yourself ?
<cliebow> i will do..ill get oliver's addy..gotta run..100 kids doing nwea testing at 9:30
<RichEd> *someone
<ace_suares> I don't think I want to be hired :-)
<ogra> cliebow, ogra@ubuntu.com :)
<cliebow> gotcha
* RichEd thought not
<RichEd> cliebow: and RichEd@ubuntu.com
<ace_suares> But I am definately interested in merging the developer world with the school world
<ace_suares> (Can I actually tal a bit here? I am not invited to this meeting!)
<RichEd> ace_suares: that is a *key* focus for us ... onmany levels
<ace_suares> tal=talk)
<RichEd> ace_suares: this is a public forum ... no invite required
<ogra> shoot, thats why we have these meeting ... we talk ;)
* RichEd hands ace_suares the microphone
<ogra> *meetings
<ace_suares> okay... I have one school now that is using Breezy Edubuntu for over a year
<ogra> whee, breezy is out of business
<ace_suares> they use it to run win98 via win4lin, and on top of that there's only ONE app they are using, it's something to do
<ace_suares> with learning how a combustion engine works... ages 14-16
<ogra> no security updates or asupport or anything anymore ....
<ace_suares> ogra: i know, but it works perfectly and they are way behind a firewall.
<ogra> *support
<ace_suares> they also use the linux part to surf the net. So they use 'edubuntu' to surf, and win4lin/2in98 to do eucational stuff.
<ace_suares> Right now I am working on 3 more schools: 2 of thm age 4-12 and one age 12-16
<ace_suares> now here's the beef: they all want winxp for some stupid reason and it aint gonna work - the virtualization is much to slow
<ace_suares> then win98/win4lin is fast enough tough
<ace_suares> except for brwosing with flash or director (many educational games).
<ace_suares> the thin clients are too slow to do that, we need local apps (local browsing) here
<ace_suares> So, edubuntu+localbrowsing (and localdevices) would be a minimum.
<ace_suares> For the educational software, there is a huge legacy of win98 software, and more and more winxp-only software
<cliebow> ogra:i sent copies of my coa stuff
<ogra> wont happen as a default before we have a properly automated netwoprk authentication setup from ubuntu server we can use
<ace_suares> the winxp software, I am giving up on but the win98 software can be done with win4lin or some other virtualization tool
<ace_suares> what's left is: the educational software that comes with edubuntu. It's far from enough to run without windows
<ogra> but what will be in gutsy is a mode to switch off ssh encryption of the X traffic completely ... that should help you here
* pips1 is back
<ace_suares> so, how can I help with these issues, since I have access to 4 schools that will actually using edubuntu.
<RichEd> ace_suares: we have started a process to move a lot more applications into Edubuntu (repos)
* ace_suares stops ranting.
<ogra> ace_suares, you can help testing asd soon as the new feature arrives ...
<RichEd> Let me give you a quick outline of the approach at the moment:
<ogra> *as
<ogra> ace_suares, apart from that you can indeed set that up manually in any case, thats the big advantage of ltsp5
<RichEd> Edubuntu : is a turnkey solution for Education ... it is a one step install to get a classroom environment ... and is simple enough for a normal person to install and maintain
<ogra> (that == network auth (which is needed for localapps))
<RichEd> Ubuntu is being used in Education, but people who install their own applications (3rd party) and who are able to customise their standard Ubuntu base.
<ace_suares> ogra: this is in feisty or gusty ?
<ogra> please understand that we wont go with a half breeded solution, so it takes a bit longer
<RichEd> The same applies also to distro's like Gaudalinex and mEDUXa etc.
<ace_suares> RichEd: Feisty is pretty much improvement, I can see someone installing and using it without technical help.
<ogra> ace_suares, the LAM_DIRECTX parameter will be in one of the next ltsp uploads to gutsy
<ogra> *LDM_DIRECTX
<RichEd> So the approach we are taking is to look at what the *more competent" users are putting together, and then bundling their choices (safely) into Edubuntu
<ogra> it will bypass the encryption for X
<RichEd> ace_suares: does that make sense ?
<ace_suares> ogra: I should start testing gutsy, but there are so many time restrictions, and I need to make the stuff work for them *now* which means feisty...
<ace_suares> RichEd: yes, I think so. But look at gcompris. on one hand, nice! on the other hand, no educational methodology at all, it doesn't fit in any
<vagrantc> maybe backporting specific packages would allow people to try new features using feisty.
<ace_suares> methodlolgy
<ogra> ace_suares, i think Gadi made a proper patch that also applies to the python code of ldm in feisty, ask him for it
<ace_suares> ogra: you think with removing the encryption, it will make stuff that much faster ?
<RichEd> ace_suares: that is part of the issue ... it's not just about the desktop or software appliations, but methods of teaching and lesson plans etc.
<ogra> vagrantc, backporting brings always the universe/main conflict
<ace_suares> ogra: and it will still be sage ?
<ace_suares> sage=safe ?
<ogra> ace_suares, yes
<ogra> well
<ogra> safe, not safer than XDMCP
<ace_suares> Rich_Ed... so what can I do ?
<ogra> but the same speed as XDMCP ;)
<RichEd> ace_suares: check out this as well http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155
<ace_suares> ogra: funny thing is that in non-ssh implementations of LTSP, you could sniff the network and see stuff
<RichEd> and this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Lessons
<vagrantc> slightly safer than XDMCP, as the password is still encrypted
<ogra> ace_suares, right
<ogra> its the same
<ace_suares> ogra: on a school with a lot of teeners, this was already uses to hack the server, login to the server via ssh/putty, etc
<ace_suares> Rich_ed: thanx for the link!
<RichEd> those are a couple of examples of external work we are trying to bring into our offering / community
<ogra> ace_suares, as vagrantc said, the password is encrypted, also the nhandshake happens through the ssh keys
<ogra> but the plain X traffic is just forwarded like in ltsp4.2
<ace_suares> ogra: okay you know I have only an eagle view of the whole process :-)
* RichEd has to go out for 30 mins ...
<ace_suares> ogra: sounds good. Can I try this on Feisty (sorry for repeat questions, I am slow)
<ace_suares> By RichEd... thx.
<RichEd> pips1: can you chat a bit about the community site when ogra and ace_suares are done ...
<cliebow> RichEd:fwqiw..i forwarded stuff
<RichEd> I'll check the logs when I get back
<RichEd> thanks cliebow
<cliebow> gotta run to the Middle School
<ogra> ace_suares, its as unsafe as the non ssh implementations, with the difference that no passwords are going over the net in cleartext
<ace_suares> ogra: for ages 4-12 this will be no problem...
<ogra> i'm done so far, thats stuff we can discuss outside the meeting
* ace_suares thanks that kids at 10 can be real hackers...
<vagrantc> ace_suares: you could possibly patch feisty's LDM to support it.
<ogra> vagrantc, thats what i said above :)
<ace_suares> ogra, vagrantc: I'll wait for gutsy..
<ogra> Gadi has a patch for feistys ldm :)
<vagrantc> or, someone could prepare backports that work with feisty and make it easy on folsk wanting to test new features.
<ogra> ace_suares, its only five lines or so
<ace_suares> vagrantc: that would for me be ideal !!
<ogra> vagrantc, feel free to make that a project ;)
<ace_suares> ogra: okay, if it's that simple, let's do it somewhere after the meeting I don't wat to hold up you guys !
<vagrantc> ogra: i will if i can :)
<ogra> the prob is that many new features require apps that are in universe for older releases
<ogra> and code changes in older releases are not allowed for backports
<ogra> so you need to find a a way to work around that (without adding universe to the sources.list :) )
<vagrantc> ogra: but we can make small tweaks to the backports to pull those packages in from universe, no?
<ogra> anyway, thats beyond the meeting atm ...
<vagrantc> guess not.
<ogra> vagrantc, you would have to make that change to the whole gutsy branch
<ogra> then backport that
<ogra> thats the policy
<vagrantc> i'll look into it
<ogra> the split of ldm in a separate source should make it easier (for ldm at least)
<ogra> for ltsp the problem will be bigger
<ogra> anyway, i'm done ...
* ogra hands the mic to pips1 
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> pips1, ?
<ogra> ok, i think we can do that post meeting as well ...
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<ogra> so lets finish that off here
<ogra> any other business ?
<ogra> going once
<ogra> going twice ....
<ogra> adjourned
<ogra> thanks all
* ogra moves back to #edubuntu
<tritium> Seveas: ping
<pips1> ogra: pong
<pips1> sorry, I was reading the log
<pips1> highvoltage: ping
<pips1> okay, let's talk about the community site
<pips1> i've been travelling the last two weeks
<pips1> ... but there is lots of great content that can go up on the beta site
<pips1> I will create some news articles
<pips1> also david trask has started to blog on the beta site too
<pips1> I will create a wiki page which outlines what I would like the community to contribute to the site too
<pips1> ... in short, I want to use materials (articles with pictures) from the education conference to get the interaction on the site going... hoping that people who attended the conference will start contributing.
<pips1> the features on the site will change still, that's why it's a 'beta'
<pips1> also, i'm aware that the look & feel of the site (default drupal theme) isn't great, so improving that will hopefully help attracting contributers too
<highvoltage> pips1: that would be great
<highvoltage> pips1: I think things have moved to #edubuntu though
<pips1> what do you mean?
<highvoltage> pips1: I'm leaving just now, have developed a bad cold this afternoon, so I'll catch you a bit later
<highvoltage> 15:44 < ogra> adjourned
<highvoltage> 15:45 < ogra> thanks all
<highvoltage> 15:45  * ogra moves back to #edubuntu
<pips1> oops I missed that :-)
<highvoltage> it happens sometimes :)
<pips1> highvoltage: any progress with matt nuzum about the theme for edubuntu.org ?
<highvoltage> pips1: yep, I got the theme from him, and poked around a bit. I will upload for preview. we don't have to change much, and it's an easy theme to work with
<pips1> good to hear that
<highvoltage> pips1: suspending laptop now... so I'll talk to you again when I get home
<pips1> ping me when you got around to upload it for preview! I'm looking forward to that
<pips1> ok
<pips1> see you!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhangen
<shawarma> er..
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<Seveas> tritium, pong
<DarkSun88> Hi Seveas
<Seveas> hi
<DarkSun88> Have you readed my message in query?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> (having dinner now after work)
<DarkSun88> Mm, ok.
<DarkSun88> Sorry for the disurb :)
<DarkSun88> s/disurb/disturb
<DarkSun88> The message it's refer to ubuntu member and cloak
<tritium> Hi Seveas.
<tritium> I'm on the phone with yarddog now.
<Seveas> tritium, pm
<mr_pouit> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Seveas> hi DarkSun88 :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<DarkSun88> Seveas: Hi. :)
<Seveas> I've poked frenode staff for the cloak
<Seveas> --- [DarkSun88]  (n=Ma@ubuntu/member/darksun88) : Michele Angrisano
<DarkSun88> Thanks a lot for your help :)
<Seveas> np
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<profoX`> Seveas: speaking about cloaks :)
<profoX`> Seveas: pretty please :)
<j1mc> hi all
<j1mc> any xubunteros here?
* vidd is here
<j1mc> hi vidd
<Seveas> profoX`, done
<profoX`> Seveas: you're an angel :) thank you
<vidd> catching up on the minutes from the last meeting that i missed
<j1mc> vidd, np.  not sure others will show up.
<Admiral_Chicago> hey everyone
<Admiral_Chicago> have we started yet?
<vidd> *wave* Admiral_Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> hey there vidd
* vidd is catching up on the minutes from the last meeting that i missed
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't see cody...
<j1mc> hi Admiral_Chicago.  so far it's just you, vidd, and myself.
<vidd> Jester45, your here right?
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago, i don't see him online w/ gmail chat.  haven't seen cody yet today.
<j1mc> ... meaning, i havne't seen him online.
<j1mc> hi crimsun
<Admiral_Chicago> not on Jabber either
<crimsun> ('lo)
<vidd> Admiral_Chicago, nice meeting plug!
<vidd> why not just use a cattle prod next time
<vidd> =] 
<j1mc> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> or forward the whole channel
<Admiral_Chicago> hehe, j1mc, we had to strong arm them
<j1mc> great!  looks like we have a good group here.
* hyper_ch wonders what he is doing here
<j1mc> i put up an agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<j1mc> but i'm not married to it, as usual.
<Jester45> o yea i here
<j1mc> if you weren't at the last meeting, please review the meeting minutes from the last meeting.
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: add one more...spreading out developers meeting
<Admiral_Chicago> you want to add to the agendaor should I?
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago, go ahead.
<j1mc> you can add it.
<j1mc> ok... shall we get started?
<j1mc> "why, yes, j1mc . . .  why don't you get us started."
<j1mc> ok
<Admiral_Chicago> lets
<vidd> question....can we include some kind of FTP program, and is there going to be SOME kind ISO burner?
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago and i are working on documentation, and ...
<Jester45> lets start
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm helping...
<j1mc> at the last meeting we talked about different ideas for hosting the documentation.
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: you want to talk about it or should I? I'll let you take the floor
<j1mc> like yelp, or the welcome center, or firefox...
<j1mc> is we would prefer to use a modified version of the welcome center.
<Admiral_Chicago> currenly yelp is about 3404
<j1mc> we just need to finalize that with the three people who have done the most work on the welcome center...
<Admiral_Chicago> and the footprint for the welcome center is about the same
<j1mc> none of whom are here today.  :(
* vidd thinks having it in firefox...with a hard added bookmark
<j1mc> vidd, firefox is still an option, but it's just slow to load.
<j1mc> and people tend to skip the docs when they can just search google.
<Admiral_Chicago> the advantages are: speed, no gnome-depends..
* vidd thinks that even if we DO have something else, it should STILL be available via firefox...even if it is slow to load
<Admiral_Chicago> any other one's j1mc ?
<j1mc> any other what, Admiral_Chicago ?
<sacater> hmm
<sacater> someone directed me here
<sacater> explain
<Admiral_Chicago> any other advantages for having a doc center
<Admiral_Chicago> sacater: Xubuntu developers meeting...
<j1mc> sacater, this is a xubuntu devel meeting
<sacater> ah
<sacater> well I am not official developer
<Admiral_Chicago> sacater: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings <--agenda
<sacater> but hey I may as well take part
<j1mc> well, the two main advantages are speed and singularity of focus.  less distractions....
<Admiral_Chicago> sacater: join us anywaysm we always need help
<Admiral_Chicago> also, the GUI seems to be flexible and something we may want to do
<sacater> Admiral_Chicago: well something that xubuntu could use
<sacater> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BulletProofX <-- if this ever gets done properly, should xubuntu use it?
<sacater> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<crimsun> sacater: that's transparent to whatever derivative is underneath.
<sacater> crimsun: hmm
<crimsun> as long as the X Window System is used, it will be present if implemented.
<sacater> okies
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm uploading a screenshot of the welcome center, it look a lot more polished in xubuntu though...
<Admiral_Chicago> http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4281/welcomead8.png
<j1mc> so... we do have support from people for the documenation center... we just need to confirm with the builders of the original welcome center that they can do it.
<sacater> Admiral_Chicago: lots of tabs :P
<j1mc> the three primary people involved with that project are maxamillion, somerville32, and TheSheep.
<Admiral_Chicago> we can use the buttons as topics as we are doing Topic based help
<Admiral_Chicago> so what do you all think?
* vidd likes it
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm all for switching the welcome center to a doc center (if it can be done by the maintainers of the center)
<sacater> Admiral_Chicago: i Like
<sacater> tis good
<Admiral_Chicago> +1 from j1mc ?
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: what do you think
<j1mc> +1  from me of course . . .
<hyper_ch> anyone has seen that "welcome center/howto use thingy" in DSL?
<Admiral_Chicago> hyper_ch: thoughts? and no i haven't
<j1mc> hyper_ch: no, i haven't seen it.
<crimsun> (loading png)
<Jester45> its like the welcome center now but with dillo right? and its auto started
<hyper_ch> as it is DSL it's very light (no clue what it actually is) and it has the basic modus of operation described in it... if you are looking for something lightweight maybe that can help?
<Admiral_Chicago> Jester45: afaik, its written from scratch in python.
<crimsun> well, having a doc center instead of a "welcome center" possibly integrates [more]  nicely with the rest of -doc
<hyper_ch> is it dillo? no clue
<Admiral_Chicago> not sure, you can check out the bazaar branch...
<crimsun> which means the project can use Ubuntu's -doc bzr/svn and whatnot
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: do you have the bazaar branch to check out Welcome Center's code
<crimsun> I'm definitely in favor of not reinventing the wheel, per se
<j1mc> i don't have it directly, but here is the launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-welcome-centre
<j1mc> you can find the bzr link through there.
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: with TBH, we have to do a lot of reinventing
<j1mc> TBH?
<Admiral_Chicago> so switching to a nice neat center would benefit i think
<Admiral_Chicago> topic based help j1mc
<j1mc> i think what crimsun was referring to was the application, though . . .   using the welcome center would not require us to reinvent too much
<Admiral_Chicago> ah yes. no it wouldn't.
<crimsun> (apparently I misunderstood the "conversion" into docbook)
<j1mc> i think that we're thinking that the welcome center would make a good app for our docs.  because cody and the rest of the welcome center devs aren't here, i'll send a note out to the mailing list about this.
<j1mc> they can give their feedback that way.
<j1mc> no matter what app / approach we take, we will still use docbook xml for the actual documentation.
<crimsun> right, that's clear now
<j1mc> any other discussion on this matter for now?
<j1mc> :)  ok... what else do we have to discuss?
<vidd> sounds like a "no" to me
<nixternal> ooh, a meeting!
<vidd> yes...can we include an ftp program by default?
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: Xubuntu only. get back to KDE...
<nixternal> crimsun: stop typing!
<Admiral_Chicago> or your vista machine actually...
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: pick something from the last meeting
<j1mc> ( Admiral_Chicago, nixternal and I are in the same loco...)
<nixternal> well I noticed you were talking docs
<nixternal> if you needed some help clarifying for the meeting, I am here for a few minutes
<Admiral_Chicago> yea, it looks like we are converting welcome center to a doc center. no yelp, straight python
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: did you see a screenshot?
<nixternal> yup, looks like a wheel reinvented..but I haven't researched it all that much
<j1mc> items from the last meeting were all assigned to people who aren't here today... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc nixternal: do you see a problem with getting docbook and Xml to play nice with all this
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: it isn't a problem getting docbook/xml to play nice, this app should play nice with docbook/xml
<Admiral_Chicago> very good, that was my one concern....
<j1mc> good news . . .
<nixternal> docbook is the dtd, xml is the markup..been in existance forever, it is up to the devs to get the app to parse it correctly
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: i have something to discuss...bazaar.
<nixternal> you shouldn't have to write the documentation for the help app at all
<j1mc> go ahead, Admiral_Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> well there was much discussion about moving *buntu docs to bazaar from SVN
<nixternal> not *much*, a little...and it isn't happening
<nixternal> anytime soon at least
<Admiral_Chicago> fine what nixternal said.
<nixternal> we are going to wait for some more plugins to be implemented (re laserjock) before looking at it again
<vidd> j1mc, i have an item as well
<Admiral_Chicago> anywyas, I was thinking that we could move our docs to a bazaar branch in one of our names temporarily
<Admiral_Chicago> vidd: add it to the agenda
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: you do realise doing that requires you to move way more than just ~/xubuntu
<Admiral_Chicago> that way, jim and I can branch from each other (and anyone else interested) and merge back in
<nixternal> it requires you to move everything except for edubuntu, ubuntu, and kubuntu
<j1mc> Admiral_Chicago: are you thinking of doing that just because we're changing the fundamental layout of xubuntu docs?
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: hmm, i just want a way for jim and I to see each other's code without committing all the tiem
<nixternal> plus seperating it from the "Documentation Project" may not be acceptable to community leaders..need to check there first (i.e. mdke)
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: yep
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: ahhh
<hyper_ch> (btw, that DSL getting started thing is Dillo)
<nixternal> ok then, create a repo, to submit your code to, but I would still work out of the svn repo so you can validate your code
<nixternal> otherwise you are asking for validation nightmares
<j1mc> nixternal: i think we'll have to talk to you about how it works.  we'll have to take it offline or something.
<j1mc> hyper_ch: DSL uses the dillo web browser to display documentation?
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: the goal is not to switch Xubuntu docs to bzr.
<nixternal> meeting in a few weeks anyways, great time to do it then maybe..easier than trying to show you online possibly
<hyper_ch> j1mc: yes
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: doc team?
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: I know that now, but validation nightmares will haunt you when you go to send me a patch and it won't validate, then I hunt you down on the southside and inflict damage ;)
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: Ubuntu Chicago :)
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: ah yes..
<j1mc> ok....  the "hows" we'll have to figure out.  but we know what we have to do.  Admiral_Chicago I'm still not totally convinced we need a separate repo.  I still want to talk with Cody or another member of the Xubuntu docs team.
<Admiral_Chicago> is that problem? i thought there were ways to switch between svn and bzr...well okay maybe we can hold off on that
<j1mc> ok...
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: neither am I, but I want a way for us to share work...
<j1mc> agreed...
<Admiral_Chicago> either way, let's hold off on it, i don't want nixternal to break my legs.
<j1mc> heh
<Admiral_Chicago> okay wahts up on the agenda?
<j1mc> giving us more time between meetings...
<j1mc> right now we have meetings scheduled every week and a half.  that's too frequent, i think.
<crimsun> 2 or 3 weeks is more reasonable
<j1mc> i think every three weeks would be ok...  yeah, crimsun ...
<vidd> Admiral_Chicago, how do i add to the agenda?
<j1mc> vidd: edit the /Xubuntu/Meetings wiki page
<Admiral_Chicago> vidd: look near the top
<j1mc> let's say every three weeks, and we can always add a special meeting if we need to . . .
<j1mc> does that sound ok?
<Admiral_Chicago> +1 for me. every 3 weeks
<Knightlust> +1
<j1mc> any others?
<vidd> if we are going for less frequent meetings, can we pick a time that is more convienent?
<vidd> but yeah...+1 here
<j1mc> vidd . . . i think we'd move our meetings to sundays.
<j1mc> typically we've been alternating between sunday and wednesdays, but we'd just skip the wednesday ones.
<vidd> hmmm.....that dont work for me....but i guess i can contribute via the mailing list
<j1mc> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event lists the dates.
<j1mc> and times
* vidd cant access the "edit this page" for the agenda....just says "waiting...."
<j1mc> vidd: it is difficult to find times for everyone to meet . . .   :(  i sent a note out to the list at the start of the gutsy cycle, and the sunday time was ok with most people.
<j1mc> vidd:  np.  what do you want to discuss?
<vidd> including an FTP app and ISO burning support
<j1mc> ok... go ahead...
<crimsun> I presume you mean a "gui X Window System-based FTP app" :)
<hyper_ch> vidd: xfburner does burn ISOs
<j1mc> hyper_ch: correct . . .   vidd, what did you want to say?
<vidd> crimsun, yes.... hyper_ch xfburn only makes frisbees on my system....i must need a tut to set it up right
<vidd> *systems
<hyper_ch> vidd: I mostly use k3b but have also used a few times xfburn and it worked fine with my BenQ dvd-rw drive
<j1mc> as for the ftp program, . . .  seems like it is easy enough to add it to the system for those who need a separate ftp app.
<j1mc> i don't think that ubuntu or kubuntu come with an ftp program out of the box.  (correct me if i'm wrong)
<vidd> in regards to a gui ftp app...what options are there that will fit with xubuntu theme?
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: kubuntu does not
<vidd> so we cant include apps that ubuntu and kubuntu dont?
<hyper_ch> well, moste people don't know what ftp is... so I think it is not necessary... those who konw what ftp is will be able to get one
<j1mc> i'm just not sure if we need it to be installed by default.
<j1mc> i agree with hyper_ch
<Admiral_Chicago> i think an FTP app is far too specialized for to be in a base install for a desktop
<j1mc> as for xfburn . . .  i have to admit that i don't use it.  i just burn files from the cli.
<j1mc> i should give it a try, though...
<j1mc> vidd: that would be more likely to be up for replacement than adding an ftp program.
<j1mc> (in my opinion, anyway).
<vidd> about xfburn...everytime i mention my issues in the help room...i get comments like "we know use [xyz]  instead
<j1mc> yeah...  what do others think?
<j1mc> do you all have problems with xfburn?
<hyper_ch> well, I can't tell... for me Xfburn, gnomebaker and k3b have worked fine whenever I used them
<j1mc> is it too buggy?
<Admiral_Chicago> j1mc: give me a second to pull up a list of bugs in xfburn
<vidd> regular data works...just iso'S DONT WORK
<j1mc> thanks, Admiral_Chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> Xfburn is not the package name..
* vidd has had this issue on every machine...it is the app, not the 'puter
<Admiral_Chicago> let me check..
<vidd> the executable is xfburn
<Admiral_Chicago> this is a KNOWN issue
<Admiral_Chicago> give me a second and i'll put up the output of bughelper
<Admiral_Chicago> http://pastebin.ca/523640
<hyper_ch> the package is xfburn
<Admiral_Chicago> hyper_ch: got it...capitalization...
<hyper_ch> :) apt-file search :)
<Admiral_Chicago> vidd: you are correct, ISOs do not burn
<Admiral_Chicago> Xfburn is a CD burning app...but to be fair the description is "Description: CD burning tool for Xfce A graphical tool for simple CD authoring related tasks.
<vidd> so can we get something lite that DOES burn iso's as well as data disks?
<j1mc> hmmm...  i don't know what other options are out there, other than gnomebaker and k3b...
<Admiral_Chicago> i think this discussion could go in to the ML
<j1mc> this could be something to bring up with the list... (1) i think we should see about fixing the ISO bugs.
<Admiral_Chicago> it's a very valid issue...
<j1mc> yeah . . .
<Admiral_Chicago> so take it to the ML right?
<Admiral_Chicago> any objections?
<vidd> none here...+1 for move to ML
<j1mc> i'm not sure what kind of development is being done on xfburn.  it looks like we used the same 0.2 build for edgy and feisty.
<j1mc> sure, send it out to the ML
<Admiral_Chicago> yea perhaps replace it with something under active development
<j1mc> any other topics?
<hyper_ch> yes
<hyper_ch> I got a topic :)
<j1mc> sure... go ahead.
<hyper_ch> just before in the xubuntu channel someone was asking for a gui file search utility
<hyper_ch> so that files can be searched and deleted accross different folders
<Admiral_Chicago> yes. weneed one!
<Admiral_Chicago> we need*
<j1mc> hyper_ch: any ideas as to what app to use?
<hyper_ch> j1mc: nope... but maybelline mentioned some plugin in thunar?
<j1mc> also, is this something you'd be willing to handle yourself, or would you need help from the core devs?
<hyper_ch> I don't konw any such tool... i normally use slocate-db
<hyper_ch> <-- hasn't got a clue on how to get something like that up and running and how to integrate and stuff
* Admiral_Chicago doesn't see one in the repos
<j1mc> hmmm... ok.  /me is not a coder, either.
<hyper_ch> I just checked the thunar page - such a plugin does not exist yet
<j1mc> well, from the prior meetings, we're looking for 3-4 things to improve for gutsy.
<Admiral_Chicago> perhaps discuss it with the core devs...
<j1mc> if you can convince them to make it one of the 3-4 things, then . . .
<hyper_ch> actually there is a way:  using the thunar special plugin creator and catfish
<j1mc> from our last meeting, we've been looking at better wifi support, samba integration, and what to use for documentation.
<j1mc> . . . and some games stuff.
* j1mc doesn't know about catfish, but . . .   this sounds like something that would be worth bringing up with the devs.
<hyper_ch> here's the thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=214059
<Admiral_Chicago> okay i'm off for now, i'll read the archives...
<Admiral_Chicago> good work everyone
<j1mc> see you, Admiral_Chicago
<hyper_ch> bye bye
<Admiral_Chicago> bye j1mc hyper_ch
<j1mc> hyper_ch: Kalikiana  is one of the devs.  that's a good sign.
<hyper_ch> j1mc: why this reference to kalikiana ?
<j1mc> hyper_ch: at the top of the forum post you linked to, it says, "Many thanks go to Kalikiana for coding it."
<hyper_ch> didn't see that :)
<hyper_ch> oh yeah... I remember... isn't Kalikiana coding now a browser?
<j1mc> ok . . .   this seems like it could be implemented, but i am not a dev.  the app looks pretty good, too.
* j1mc is not sure what Kalikiana is coding . . . 
<hyper_ch> well, catfish is the search util... maybe an integration into thunar is not needed
<j1mc> i think it would be preferred, though (the thunar integration)
<Riddell> j1mc, Admiral_Chicago: kubuntu includes konqueror which does ftp
<hyper_ch> Riddell: and sftp
<j1mc> thank you, Riddell
<j1mc> Ok . . .   we'll send the catfish / thunar idea up.  i like it, though.
<j1mc> any other comments on that?
<hyper_ch> cool :)
<j1mc> anything else to discuss?
<vidd> j1mc, i sent the xfburn to the ML
<j1mc> thanks, vidd
<j1mc> ok . . .   well, it looks like we'll end things here for today.
<j1mc> thanks for your time, everyone.  :)
<j1mc> i'll compile the meeting minutes and such, and put them up on the meetings page, and will send out a note to the list with links to the log of our session.
<j1mc> bye, all
<hyper_ch> bye j1mc
<DarkSun88> G'night.
<Admiral_Chicago> Riddell: ah right, i meant a stand alone FTP app...
<Riddell> Admiral_Chicago: never seen any point in that, ftp is a function that should be available to all apps along with any other network protocol
<Jester45> is the meeting over?
<Admiral_Chicago> yes i agree. i was just under the impression that we were talking about a stand along ftp app
<Admiral_Chicago> actually Fx suppoerts FTP no?
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-31
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<AndrewB> Hello DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> Hi AndrewB
<juliux> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 31 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00: Kernel Team
<pitti> hello .*
* Mithrandir escapes pitti's finite automata
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<mdz> good afternoon, folks
<kwwii> hi mdz
* Mithrandir pongs preemptively
<Hobbsee> hiya mdz
<evand> hi
* heno o/
<Riddell> hi
<fabbione> yo yo
<pitti> hey mdz
<BenC> still missing pkl
* bdmurray \o
<mdz> cjwatson: ping
<cjwatson> pong
<mathiaz> hi
<agoliveira> Hello all
<asac> hi
<ogra> BenC, short pre-meeting question, whats the status of rt73 ?
<ogra> justin mails me constantly to get info
<shawarma> pong
<BenC> ogra: I have it ready and working
* kylem waves.
<ogra> BenC, can i have a copy to punch it in the sqashfs ?
<cjwatson> bryce,dholbach,seb128: ping
<cjwatson> doko has a medical appointment, I forgot to note that
<BenC> ogra: yeah, I'll get it to you today
<ogra> BenC, cool, thanks, you rock :)
<dholbach> pong
<dholbach> cjwatson: pong
<cjwatson> <doko> The only thing on my list is the possible GCC 4.1 -> GCC 4.2 transition
<seb128> cjwatson: pong
<kylem> cjwatson, for gutsy?
<cjwatson> yeah, he's talked about it
<Mithrandir> kylem: yes.
<kylem> how... gutsy :)
<mdz> all here now?
<cjwatson> does somebody else know about the gcc 4.2 thing who can talk about it?
* ogra is all here, no parts missing
<Mithrandir> I can talk a little bit about it, but I can't answer all of the questions about it.
<cjwatson> I'll adjust the agenda
<kylem> perhaps we could have a supplemental meeting when doko returns about it?
<pitti> would indeed quite a lot of effort, now that we synced most of Debian and such
<Mithrandir> that would be better.
<cjwatson> pitti: sounded like we weren't talking about rebuilding everything
<pitti> ah, ok
* pitti hopes this doesn't involve another C++ ABI transition
* ogra was about to ask that
<shawarma> Oh, the horror!
<Mithrandir> pitti: gcc has stopped with those, AIUI
<mdz> ok
<ogra> shawarma, great opportunity to get new blood into MOTU ;)
<shawarma> ogra: Keyword being "blood"
<ogra> (thnk positive :) )
<mdz> first off, we should welcome two new Canonical folks making their first appearances at a development meeting
<shawarma> o/
<fabbione> FIRE!
<fabbione> BLOOD!
<fabbione> :P
* pitti starts a Laola wave
<mdz> evand and shawarma
* evand waves
<Hobbsee> mmm...blood
* ogra welcomes evand and shawarma 
* asac waving
<Mithrandir> welcome!
<evand> thanks Matt.  I look forward to working with all of you.
<Riddell> hi evand
<fabbione> welcome guys
<ogra> shawarma, that was about time
<Riddell> hi shawarma
<dholbach> welcome evand, welcome shawarma :-)
<mathiaz> welcome onboard
<BenC> welcome all
<seb128> welcome
* agoliveira says welcome to evand and shawarma
<shawarma> ogra: :)
<bdmurray> welcome
<shawarma> Thanks for the warm welcome!
<mdz> evan joins us from the wilds of the mideastern US, working on ubiquity developpment
<evand> Thanks everyone
* Keybuk hugs evand and shawarma
<ogra> ubiquity or ubiquity and d-i ?
<mdz> shawarma joins us from a town in the small country of Denmark whose name I can't pronounce
<mdz> to work on Ubuntu Server
<evand> ogra: I intend to have a hand in both
<fabbione> ROFL
<ogra> evadcool, i just want to know whom to poke in case :)
<fabbione> mdz: nobody can... if that makes you feel any better :)
<pitti> srvr?
<mdz> pitti: ha
<shawarma> pitti: :)
<Keybuk> shawarma: random question;  do you prefer Soren or Sren for the spelling of your first name?
<ogra> heh
<shawarma> Keybuk: Soren's less like to break :)
<Mithrandir> but Sren is the proper speling
<fabbione> or Soeren
<shawarma> Indeed.
* agoliveira hope Soren as I have no idea how to do the "/ + o"!
<fabbione>  = oe
<pitti> we managed , too
* iwj 's client doesn't seem to do UTF-8 at all.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: compose-/-o
<Mithrandir> or compose-o-/
<mdz> iwj: time to join the 21st century?
* agoliveira  :)
<asac> iwj: sarge :)?
<cjwatson> iwj: /set term_charset "utf-8"
<mdz> I will be forced to nominate one of my keys to be a compose key now
<shawarma> I've got a big certification thing fro Brainbench that says "Sxren Hansen". Since then, I've gone with Soren.
<iwj> mdz: No, I'm always hoping to be one century behind.
<Mithrandir> mdz: caps lock is a good one.
<kylem> Sxren is pretty metal.
<mdz> Mithrandir: I use that. a lot.
<seb128> fabbione: oe = 
<shawarma> seb128: no. ae = 
<iwj> Have we got a real agenda ? :-)
<shawarma> seb128: Ah, sorry.
<mdz> we do, it's in the wiki as always
<pitti> Mithrandir: caps lock makes an invaluable Esc key
<mdz> and this warm welcome was part of it :-)
<shawarma> url, please?
<fabbione> seb128: in danish written lang is different from compose stuff
<mdz> next up, Keybuk re: Gutsy sprint
<Keybuk> yup
<BenC> you mean "party at millbank"?
<Keybuk> you should all have the mail from Claire now
<seb128> fabbione: in french we use  :p
<Keybuk> please ensure that you've got your travel arrangements booked as early as possible
<Keybuk> late booking may involve paying for cost differences
<Keybuk> also make sure you book the cheapest travel (eyas can give you a price for comparison if you're booking on your own), taking a more expensive option may also involve paying the cost difference
<Mithrandir> as in, we should just book already?
<Keybuk> </reminder from claire>
<kwwii> one question: how long does it take to get to heathrow from the hotel?
<Keybuk> we're not sure where the hotel is yet
<mdz> kwwii: tfl.gov.uk
<Keybuk> it may be the K&K, in which case it's about 45 mins with no tube changes
<Keybuk> or it may be at the Rochester, in which case it's about 1h with changes
<Keybuk> or it may be at the secret Claire hotel wants me to try
<kwwii> right, thanks :-)
<Keybuk> and I don't know where that is
<Keybuk> oh
<Keybuk> and please don't look suspicious when arriving at the building
<mdz> Keybuk: do hotels often want you to try Claires?
<BenC> wow, makes for hasty mornings
<agoliveira> Brazilains are a bit afraid of the London tube ;)
<Keybuk> there are lots of men with guns next door <g>
<fabbione> ehheh
<mdz> BenC: they're both closer to the office than that
<pitti> Keybuk: gulp
<Keybuk> (the building next door to Millbank is the headquarters of the British Secret Service)
<mdz> I thought they were across the river
<dholbach> haha
<bdmurray> sweet
<cjwatson> it's MI5, not 6, no?
<kwwii> I remember walking there from the KK, it is not that far
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> MI-6 is the building on the river bank opposite Millbank
<mdz> the long and the short of it is, don't delay planning your travel. book now.
* agoliveira is thinking about Tom Clancy's books
<Keybuk> MI-5 is the building next door
* kwwii is booking as we speak
<mdz> Keybuk: upriver or down?
<shawarma> Does anything interesting happen Friday night, or should I be on my merry way home?
<mdz> shawarma: we will go out, one way or another
<shawarma> mdz: I'll book for Saturday, then. :)
<Keybuk> mdz: depends on the tide <g>
<agoliveira> Nice. I'm booking for saturday anyway.
<BenC> if we're bowling again, let me know so I can bring my uber cool ball and shoes
<mdz> ok, next agenda item is from Mithrandir and pitti :-)
<mdz> gutsy release management
<agoliveira> BenC: I aways bring both
<Mithrandir> so, who wants to be RM? :-P
<pitti> I was sort of voluntold
<agoliveira> BenC... balls :P
<cjwatson> pitti has agreed to take on a certain amount of the release management work, at least for the time being
<cjwatson> and with help from those of us who have done it before
<Mithrandir> of course.
<ogra> BenC, poker cards ?
<pitti> Mithrandir: how much of your total work time took that so far?
<BenC> ogra: always :)
<ogra> yay :)
<cjwatson> he already has archive admin access, and I'm arranging for cdimage access
* seb128 hugs pitti
<mdz> I suggested a conference call to begin the training process
<mdz> to be continued at the sprint
<Mithrandir> pitti: most of it.  It's not a problem to make it take up at least full-time, but I think we can make do with less, especially if we split the efforts somewhat.
<pitti> (since I'm not exactly bored all the time ATM)
<Mithrandir> agreed, you'd need to find somebody, or get somebody to be voluntold, to take on some of your duties.
<shawarma> What was the URL for the agenda?
<mdz> shawarma: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20070531
<Mithrandir> if people are interested in release management, please do speak up since having an actual team would be good.
<pitti> Mithrandir: so, can we have that conf call next week?
<seb128> Mithrandir: and that somebody will need somebody else to take on some of his duties, etc... ? ;)
<shawarma> mdz: cheers
<cjwatson> pitti: as early as possible, perhaps tomorow
<cjwatson> tomorrow
<Riddell> I'm interested in release management of course
<pitti> cjwatson: sure
<Mithrandir> pitti: that would work fine with me.
<mdz> Riddell: you should be on the call as well
<Riddell> sure
<mdz> ok, that's the end of the pre-selected agenda
<Mithrandir> we have an upcoming tribe release next week, so that'll be a good training.
<pitti> right; so, tomorrow then
<mdz> is there other business for the meeting?
<cjwatson> on which note, stuff is looking pretty good for Tribe 1, the alternate install CD is approaching workingness
<heno> pitti: count me as part of the team for release testing
<cjwatson> for the desktop CD, we're blocked on sysadmin taking action on livefs build script tweaks at the moment
<BenC> FYI, the next kernel upload is expected to be Tribe 1
<agoliveira> Can anyone tell the newcomers what is Tribe 1?
<cjwatson> agoliveira: first milestone release of Gutsy
<BenC> barring any unforseen "omg all your machines will die" type things
<pitti> heno: that would be much appreciated
<ogra> cjwatson, btw i fixed the persistent live mode for my classmate script ---
<ogra> ...
<agoliveira> cjwatson: Thanks
<cjwatson> agoliveira: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<pitti> BenC: will the next kernel upload be apport compatible again?
<mdz> agoliveira: it's the bit which isn't described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#head-edd418c43178ce21e3d72fc6e35b1a0892175cf3
<pitti> seb128: oh, and should we enable apport again for gutsy now?
<mdz> yet :-)
<seb128> pitti: no
<BenC> pitti: Oooh, it wasn't going to be, but I can toss in the changes real quick since they are tested
<bdmurray> pitti: not yet I think
<seb128> pitti: wait an another week please ;) I don't want to come back from holidays with a zillion of desktop bugs :p
<pitti> BenC: if you could check /usr/share/apport/testsuite/test-apport kernel before upload, that would be great
<Hobbsee> mdz: sounds like an doc update needed then
<BenC> pitti: notes, thanks
<seb128> pitti: maybe after GNOME 2.19.3?
<pitti> bdmurray, seb128: alright
<mdz> Hobbsee: it's one of those things I noted should be written into it, but didn't have time to write up
<pitti> BenC: thank you
<pitti> seb128, bdmurray: whenever you guys say that the time is right
<BenC> *noted
<mdz> ok
<mdz> anything else?
<BenC> how many ppl on distro team now?
<mdz> about 25
<bdmurray> pitti: when did it get turned on for Feisty?
* pitti hopes to see some of you guys at LinuxTag
* dholbach hugs pitti
<pitti> bdmurray: it was on all the time, I think
<mdz> ok, sounds like we should wrap up the meeting
<cjwatson> mdz: damn, I have to update my "about 20" stock answer
<mdz> if there's anything else, please raise on the appropriate mailing list
<pitti> bdmurray: but I'd really like to see the CrashReporting spec implemented before
<BenC> bye everyone
<mdz> adjourned, thanks all
<kwwii> thanks all
<shawarma> Wow, that was easy.
<mdz> pitti: I think that's some time away (post-gutsy)
<mdz> shawarma: what did you expect?
<shawarma> mdz: Dunno :)
<shawarma> More pain.
<asac> thanks
<agoliveira> Bye all
<Mithrandir> shawarma: we can always light you on fire or roll you in tar and feathers or something?
<pitti> mdz: hm, I hope to get it ready in a (very) few weeks; that's urgent stuff
<mathiaz> thanks. bye all.
<shawarma> Mithrandir: I like to keep my options open.
<shawarma> Mithrandir: ...but no.
<bryce> cjwatson, I'm here
<mdz> pitti: oh, you're writing your own?
<cjwatson> bryce: did you get the meeting reminder?
<pitti> shawarma: they are usually much longer
<cjwatson> bryce: if not, it might be worth subscribing to the distro team calendar so that you're pre-reminded
<pitti> mdz: no, the updated spec is mainly about 'file bugs private by default and have the retracer remove core dumps and subscribe the right team'
<shawarma> pitti: I thought as much.
<pitti> mdz: that will give us a lot of what we need from without reinventing the wheel; it's not ideal, of course, but will do for the next releases until Malone grows a real crash db concept
<bryce> cjwatson, ok yeah I should do that
<bryce> cjwatson, sorry I was late; still sorting out when meetings are (I thought it was at 9)
<cjwatson> the link's on the canonical wiki
<cjwatson> bryce: see my spec question on #ubuntu-devel
<mdz> pitti: oh, I thought crash-reporting was about having an intermediate storage for crash reports before turning them into bugs
<pitti> mdz: indeed; we use private bugs as crash db, the duplicate detector just marks them as such, and the primary bug can be made public for 'escalation'
<mdz> pitti: that doesn't seem to address the problem of lots of (often duplicate) bugs to search through, no?
<pitti> mdz: if they are automatically marked as duplicate of the first bug, then searches will hide the duplicates
<pitti> mdz: and since all bugs are private at least initially, people do not get spammed either
<pitti> mdz: with both the standalone crash db and the Malone hack e. g. the desktop team explicitly requested not to get mails about crash bugs
<pitti> instead, we can filter the top crashers by looking at the duplicate number
<pitti> and generate reports from Malone
<pitti> mdz: one major thing that this hack doesn't solve is anonymous crash reporting
<pitti> but for the rest (reporting, privacy, workflow, dup handling, etc.) this simple thing is surprisingly capable
<pitti> primarily because we want the crash db to have many of the traits of a bug tracker, except for the spam and privacy
<mdz> pitti: the private bugs won't show up in searches for dupes, though
<mdz> pitti: have you made some other improvement in dupe detection which addresses that?
<pitti> mdz: uh, not? that would be weird
<pitti> mdz: you mean if I have two private bugs, one being a dup of the other, Malone won't display it as 'This bug has 1 duplicate'?
<pitti> mdz: if that is the case, there's an easy workaround
<pitti> mdz: since my plan is to delete all attachments from duplicates anyway (just to save spaces), we can as well make the dups public, but that would be a very bad workaroud
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 16:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 14:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 15:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 10:00: Kernel Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<DaSkreech> Meetin?
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 31 May 17:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 15:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 16:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 11:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 08:00: Edubuntu
<giangy> @schedule rome
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 31 May 23:00: Kubuntu Developers | 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu
<superbenny> isnt there a meeting today?
<Lure> superbenny: Kubuntu-devel in 13 minutes
<superbenny> rite...it was dead so i thot i missed a memo or something
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<DaSkreech> Hello Jucato
<Jucato> O.o
<superbenny> hey everyone
<nixternal> oi oi
<superbenny> hey toma
<toma_> hello
<manchicken> Weeeeee
* ryanakca twiddles
<kwwii> here we go again
* DaSkreech hops on manchicken
<ypsila> moin
<dregorth> this should be interesting for my first meeting attended ;)
* Jucato hops on DaSkreech
<nixternal> I think I forgot to eat lunch
<jjesse> too bad i'm on my way out for a run
<ypsila> also ich fhl mich verarscht
<jjesse> got way too much going on tonight
* manchicken watches top as his taterbase conversion spins the disks about as fast as they'll go...
<nixternal> jjesse: just 2 documentation items :)
<jjesse> nixternal: i know i tried to the whole @sig thingy when i made some comments but it never works for me
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> @SIG@
<nixternal> and @SIG@ won't show properly in preview
<nixternal> it won't show until a submit
<Lure> quick introductions?
<manchicken> Where's the agenda?
<Riddell> evening all
* Lure is Luka Renko
<Riddell> agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
* Riddell is Jonathan Riddell
<Jucato> evening/morning! :)
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
<dregorth> good afternoon Riddell ;)
* manchicken is Mike Stemle
* mhb is Martin Bhm
* nixternal is Rich Johnson
<Riddell> first item isn't on the agenda though, which is to discuss the kubuntu council membership
* manchicken is Santa Claus.
* toma is tired and Tom Albers
* ypsila ist Sabina Weiland
* ryanakca is Ryan Kavanagh
* Jucato Juan Carlos Torres
* jjesse Jonathan Jesse
<nixternal> Riddell: who is leaving or planning on leaving the KCC?
<DaSkreech> Daskreech is trouble
* kwwii is kenneth wimer
<toma> 125 people here, nice amount for a meeting
* ogra is lurking
* superbenny ben epstein
<Riddell> well, the plan we discussed at UDS was to rotate half the CC
<nixternal> hiya ogra
<kwwii> hi ogra
* chx is just chx
* ogra waves
<nixternal> Riddell: cool
<Riddell> there's six at the moment
<Riddell> toma e-mailed that he wanted out
<kwwii> ogra: you didn't get enough meeting today?
<_StefanS_> evening
<Riddell> raphink says he's busy these days
<ryanakca> hey _StefanS_
<kwwii> right, toma emailed the list about moving on so someone who does more can take part
<nixternal> yes, raphink is doing the "newly married" thing
<Lure> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-council/+members
<ogra> kwwii, not as bad as wednesdays for me :)
* marseillai_ is cyril breuil
<Riddell> and at UDS both tonio and allee said they could step down if it ment a change of hands
<Riddell> but tonio since said he wanted to stay
<nixternal> very respectible
<ypsila> vive la France
<Lure> we want Tonio_
<Riddell> so I propose we releave toma, raphink and allee and find three new names
<toma> ++
<Lure> what will be rotation time - one release?
<toma> i've seen no new candidated
<toma> candidates
<Riddell> Lure: a year was suggested
<manchicken> Riddell: Could you explain a bit more about what this council does first?
<ryanakca> hmmm. And I assume that voting will be done the same way as for the Ubuntu CC
<superbenny> what are the requirements for being on the council?
<jjesse> i propose nixternal as a candiate
<Lure> ok, so next half changes in 6 months or so?
<toma> jjesse: i would support that
* manchicken seconds nixternal
<Riddell> manchicken: the council can vote on vital kubuntu matters such as should we be purple or green in our artwork
<kwwii> I treble that
* ryanakca thirds nixternal
<Riddell> and can create kubuntu members (who are also ubuntu members)
<manchicken> Riddell: Ooh.
<Lure> ++ for nixternal
<jjesse> ok heaidng out to run, i vote for nixternal
<manchicken> Riddell: What about additional responsibility?
<Riddell> Lure: change in 12 months (or so)
<nixternal> whoa...I came back from the door to a flood of love..thanks
<kwwii> I'd suggest myself if nobody minds having a lowly art-guy on the council :-)
<mhb> +1 for nixternal, too
<superbenny> what are the requirements?
<nixternal> one name that definitely comes to mind for me though is imbrandon
<Jucato> (nixternal++)++
<Riddell> superbenny: the requirements are that you're a kubuntu member and that everyone loves and respects you
<ryanakca> Riddell: but, since only half changes now, wouldn't the other half change in 6 months, so there's alwais overlapping?
<nixternal> Lure would be another one
<nixternal> ryanakca and Jucato are loved by everyone as well
<kwwii> Lure is a great person for this
<nixternal> to many choices
<jjesse> imbrandon ++ for me
<jjesse> along w/ Lure
<Riddell> ryanakca: we'd probably decide that at the time
<nixternal> kwwii as well
<Jucato> haha
<mhb> I'm for Lure as well
* DaSkreech loves Jucato
<manchicken> imbrandon++ as well :)
<ryanakca> nixternal: I'm not really active enough...
<ryanakca> imbrandon++
<Jucato> nixternal: I'm not knowledgeable enough :)
<Riddell> I've not had any names e-mailed to me when I asked on the list, but we seem to have a good selection now :)
* Jucato ++ nixternal, Lure, imbrandon
<toma> Riddell: is there a 'kde' like person needed/wanted?
* ryanakca suggests that a current CC person sets up a poll for Kubuntu members so that those who can't make it to this meeting can also vote?
<nixternal> Riddell: never seen a list.../me checks
<manchicken> Let's just force imbrandon to do everything?
<superbenny> ha nice idea
<manchicken> I'm up for that.
<nixternal> haha, Riddell just seen it..you meeting reminder :)
<manchicken> Especially since he's not responding to our collective prodding.
<Riddell> toma: if there's one who is suitably keen on kubuntu too, that would be useful I think
<ryanakca> (like for the Ubuntu CC one a couple of weeks ago)
<Riddell> ryanakca: I was hoping to avoid the hassle and time delay of doing polls
<ryanakca> ok
<ryanakca> Riddell: nevermind then :)
<Riddell> nixternal: your name seems to have come up, would you be happy to be a council member?
<nixternal> Riddell: sure...rather flattered actually
* DaSkreech blames nixter....
<Riddell> Lure: same question
<nixternal> haha
<manchicken> nixternal: Now get in this box while we poke you with sticks.
<fdoving> hi.
<ryanakca> my votes are nixternal, imbrandon and...
<ypsila> who of them is kubuntu?
<ryanakca> mhb is pretty well known within the community, I think...
<mhb> ryanakca: no way
<kwwii> let's do this one person at a time, so we know what we are doing
<mhb> ryanakca: I'm just known to you .o)
<ryanakca> ok
<Jucato> hehe :)
<Riddell> I don't think imbrandon is about
<Lure> Riddell: my only concern is 12 months - I am quite active now, not sure what will be 6month from now (you know personal and work obligations)
<ypsila> ryanakca: which community pls?
<ryanakca> ypsila: Kubuntu
<Lure> Riddell: but I imagine I could step down and you would reelect somebody
<nixternal> Lure: that could be a road traveled at that time possibly
<Riddell> Lure: one of the reasons for having 6 members is that it's less of a problem if someone drops out
<ypsila> ryanakca: which country pls?
<nixternal> there you go
* ryanakca votes Lure, nixternal and imbrandon if they are all willing.
<Riddell> given a quorum of 3
<ryanakca> I'll be back in 15 or so minutes, supper.
<Riddell> mhb: you're saying no?
<mhb> Riddell: not really :o)
<mhb> Riddell: I never thought I would come up :o)
* mhb is flattered
<yuriy> i think Lure, nixternal, and imbrandon sounds good
<Riddell> mm, but imbrandon isn't here to defend himself
<nixternal> Riddell: I am trying to contact him
<Jucato> which makes it good :)
<manchicken> I find it interesting that you use the word "defend"
<mhb> Riddell: I think there are others in the community that deserve it more than me
<toma> is there someone particulary active in #kubuntu ?
<Knightlust> only one I can think of is Jucato
<yuriy> manchicken: it's the harsh KCC interrogation
<nixternal> imbrandon must be in tornado hell right now..I know they have bad storms, I am getting "all circuits are busy" when trying to call him
<Lure> toma: or forums?
<Jucato> Knightlust: hush! :/
<toma> might be good to have someone in the coucil who is deeply in touch with the users
<kwwii> toma: good point
<Lure> toma: ++
<Lure> this are all potential future contributers
<fdoving> toma: jucato is the #kubuntu helper - http://ubuntu.lnix.net/irc/kubuntu.html :)
<Jucato> O.o
<nixternal> ya, nobody can touch Jucato on that one for sure!
<manchicken> Ooh, I know and love Jucato.
<ypsila> toma: only for germany
<manchicken> Jucato++
<manchicken> :)
<toma> Jucato: available?
<Jucato> lol! I talk *that* much?! :O
<nixternal> haha
<Riddell> mhb: well, I disagree, but launchpad tells me you are the newest of the suggested names
<Riddell> kwwii: I think an artist would be perfectly welcome on the council
<manchicken> Jucato: And you try to keep folks on topic, and polite, and helping each other.
<fdoving> Jucato: might be false positives, i didn't tweak the script much, but yes, you rock :)
<Jucato> heh :)
<kwwii> Riddell: then count me in (at least to have someone to vote on who loses :p)
<mhb> I'm for kwwii, too
<Jucato> toma: yeah more or less I'm pretty much free.
<mhb> kwwii: but find some more time for kubuntu! :o)
<Riddell> kwwii: you also have excellent ties to upstream KDE
<toma> true
<kwwii> Riddell: yeah - I know how to bitch at them
<Jucato> lol
<nixternal> well I can rm -rf mailody in KDE SVN :p
<Lure> yep some stronger kde connection would be good - so I would support kwwii too!
* nixternal hides for toma 
<nixternal> err, from
* Lure has missed that he candiated 
<toma> nixternal: why would you delete your own documentation again?
<nixternal> hahaha, again?
<toma> yep
<Riddell> so for lack of imbrandon, I'd propose the three longest kubuntu memberships we have proposed which is nixternal, kwwii and Lure
<ypsila> :_)
<mhb> +1 for them all from me
<nixternal> Riddell: maybe 7 would be good, that tie breaker :)
<Jucato> +1 from me for the 3
<nixternal> like we will ever go 50/50 on something
<nixternal> to much love for a split
<Lure> nixternal: we would rather have endless meeting and starve to death to get consensus ;-)
<kwwii> nixternal: you're new here are you?
<manchicken> That's true.  The one who dies of starvation is the tiebreaker.
<nixternal> Lure: sounds like a great evening :)
<ypsila> 50/50?
<Riddell> any objections?
<nixternal> kwwii: been here for about a year and a half
<fdoving> nixternal: then there will be a "first person to fall a sleep looses"-contest.
<nixternal> haha
* nixternal does not object
<Riddell> kwwii, Lure: sound ok to you two?
<toma> no, but can we make that decision with allee, tonio, raphink and sarah?
<DaSkreech> Jucato: ha ha I made the top 5 :)
<toma> without...
<Jucato> DaSkreech: lol
<kwwii> Riddell: sounds great to me, but I won't vote on myself :-)
<Lure> Riddell: yep I support all three (including myself) ;-)
<Jucato> lol
<nixternal> hehe
<Riddell> toma: I'd think membership should be done by the whole community (i.e. whoever turns up) rather than the council voting on itself
<DaSkreech> lol
<kwwii> I was trying to pull the altruistic vote :-(
<nixternal> haha
<DaSkreech> Jucato out talks Ubotu :)
<nixternal> rofl
<yuriy> whole community == members?
<Riddell> yuriy: you can have an opinion too :)
<yuriy> ok well +1 from me for all 3
<toma> Riddell: i consider those four important members, especially as they are current council members
* ypsila has an opinion as well :-)
<neversfelde> hehe +1
* marseillai_ agree for the 3 too
<ypsila> 3 is not enough
<fdoving> who are we replacing? - toma and?
<Riddell> toma: they are, but we have business to get on with including memberships, so I'm hoping we can agree to a new council toot sweet
<toma> Riddell: sorry, but i'm not comfortable deciding it without all of them.
<Riddell> ok
<Lure> ypsila: Riddell, Tonio_ and Hobbsee stay from old council
<ypsila> Lure: yes, but 3 ist not enough!
<ypsila> Lure: to replace
<Riddell> Hobbsee!
<Lure> hi Hobbsee
<Jucato> ypsila: that is why we are voting on 3 more. that makes 6
<nixternal> yay Hobbsee!
<nixternal> she woke up!
<_StefanS_> hey Hobbsee
<ypsila> Jucato: 6 in whole is not enough!
<ypsila> moin Hobbsee
<mhb> the whole community welcomes Hobbsee :o)
<manchicken> Hobbsee: Welcome to the party.  We're just about to box up nixternal and poke him with sticks.
<Riddell> Hobbsee: proposal is to release toma, allee and raphink from council and replace with lure, nixternal and kwwii
<toma> did allee and raphink agree to that?
<Riddell> they agreed to be released
<toma> k
<Riddell> not the other half
* Hobbsee wonders what happened there
<Hobbsee> hiya alll, can someone pastebin the backlog?
<Riddell> toma: if you think we can't do that now, then we can continue the meeting with you, me and Hobbsee as quorum for membership voting etc
* Hobbsee nods
<Hobbsee> sounds sane
<Hobbsee> yes
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23503/
<toma> Riddell: ok, if Hobbsee agrees, and allee and raphink know what is going on, I'am fine. If this comes as a surprise to them, I am against a decision now.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: other half meaning...?
<kwwii> meaning the new people
<Riddell> Hobbsee: other half meaning the selection of lure, nixternal and kwwii
* ryanakca back
<Riddell> toma: they certainly know what the plan is for this meeting, allee suggested most of it at UDS, should we continue the meeting with the new bunch or the old bunch?
<toma> Riddell: new.
<_StefanS_> I might be asking a complete stupid question here, but what function does the council have within kubuntu ? Could someone direct me to a page with that information please.
<Riddell> ok, groovy, thanks and welcome to the new kubuntu council
<Riddell> _StefanS_: creating kubuntu members (who are also ubuntu members) and voting on whatever we care to discuss regarding kubuntu
<nixternal> thanks!
<Lure> thanks everybody for support
<mhb> you are welcome :o)
<Jucato> yay!
<nixternal> yes, thanks everyone!
<toma> good luck guys!
<kwwii> thanks everyone :-)
<_StefanS_> Riddell: thanks for clearing that up :)
<mhb> you deserve it
<kwwii> so...let's start planning the pink and green
<Jucato> congrats nixternal, kwwii, Lure!
<nixternal> PING AND GREEN?? ;p
<Knightlust> congratulations guys!
<nixternal> s/ping/pnk
<Riddell> thanks to the previous members for the last years contributions
<nixternal> ahh, you knwo what I mean
<Knightlust> wel deserved
<Lure> _StefanS_: we may want to prepare a charter as some other councils did (MOTU comes to mind) in order to make it more clear
<Riddell> and long may they continue contributing
<ryanakca> frats
<DaSkreech> for 6 months
<nixternal> Riddell: ditto...awesome job for the previous members!
<dregorth> congrats! :)
<toma> Riddell: thanks.
<DaSkreech> Grats!!
* nixternal misses raphink
<ryanakca> *grats
<nixternal> toma: thanks!
<yuriy> congrats nixternal, lure, kwwii
<Riddell> shall we start with memberships?
<yuriy> i also think that the CC neesd some sort of charter
<Hobbsee_> oh dammit
<nixternal> for the meeting log: Thank you to allee, toma, and raphink!
<Hobbsee_> someone please pastebin the previous log of thsi
<_StefanS_> Lure: like an organizational diagram you mean?
<yuriy> there isn't really any sign that it exists
<Hobbsee_> i thought i'd left my clone in #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> how much did you miss Hobbsee_?
<Lure> _StefanS_: something like this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council
<Riddell> who's here for membership?
* ryanakca can start a diagram... I can't really do anything during membership stuff
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23503/
<marseillai_> Riddell: I am
<_StefanS_> Lure: ok I see
<toma> Jucato: sorry you did not make it.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: just pastebin all of it :P
<Riddell> marseillai_: care to introduce yourself?
<Jucato> toma: it's ok. it's not yet my time :)
<marseillai_> ok
<marseillai_> Hi! My name is Cyril breuil. I'm a French ingeneer student currently in trainee. I've been using Linux for three years now starting with debian SID, then I gave a try to Breezy and kept it. My first contribution was by helping new users on French Irc and forum, and I've never stopped helping users since this time. I've written a few docs in French community website wiki.
<marseillai_> Now that I've time to contribute much deeply I've jumped in it and tried to learn as many things as possible, and to contribute on every things that seems to be important for kubuntu and that is possible to me. I've made some new packages at the beginning and I like this.
<marseillai_> Most of the packages I've created are almost clean and I've started to solve bugs on launchpad and make bigger packages and merges. My skills are not the biggest you've ever seen but I'm motivated and I learn fast.
<toma> Jucato: don't let it discourage you. there are simply to many candidates.
<nixternal> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/23504/
<Riddell> marseillai_: got a wiki page?
<marseillai_> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Marseillai
<Jucato> toma: no problem. I also needed to learn some more technical stuff anyway :)
<Riddell> kwwii, Lure, nixternal: quick, think up some questions for marseillai_
<nixternal> hehe
<manchicken> marseillai_: What is your favorite color?
<nixternal> lol
<toma> (else i will do it)
<Riddell> insightful questions
<marseillai_> pink
<marseillai_> :p
<manchicken> Riddell: That was insightful!
<marseillai_> i'm right ?
<nixternal> Riddell: his wiki page and LP look good
<Lure> marseillai_: so your plan is to go for motu in future?
* ryanakca proposes that we change the official language of Kubuntu Devel to french :)
<Hobbsee> eek
* Hobbsee speaks no french.
<yuriy> pourquoi?
<neversfelde> oh no ,please do not :D
<Riddell> marseillai_: how have you found the documentation for creating packages and doing merges?
<marseillai_> Lure: yes but not as a goal just as a conclusion to my work if i merit
<kwwii> oh great, another french guy!
<manchicken> ryanakca: Mon francais est tres mal. (Probably made at least 5 mistakes in that response alone)
<nixternal> marseillai_: do you plan on working on just Kubuntu packaging? how about Debian packaging as well with like KDE Extras and such? makes it easier to just synch :)
<marseillai_> Riddell: good but not enouh on CDBS
<ryanakca> because a good portion of Kubuntu-ers are french
<manchicken> marseillai_: Have you done any translation work?
<marseillai_> nixternal: why not! but for the moment i want to concentrate on kubuntu and improve my skills ... let's see what happend next
<Lure> marseillai_: do you have any specific area/packages that you have special interest?
<marseillai_> manchicken: yes some time ago
<marseillai_> Lure: every kde packages! :)
<nixternal> marseillai_: excellent! I just started workin with Debian KDE team, great help from all of them
<nixternal> love the KDE attitude :)
* Jucato loves KDE* :)
<Lure> btw, this is from Tonio_
<Lure> [Thu May 31 2007]  [14:10:04]  <Tonio_> Riddell: first is that I +1 marseillai for membership
<marseillai_> nixternal: but i was also a debian user (irc modo on debianfr) so why not debian
<Riddell> marseillai_: yes, cdbs can remain a bit of a mystery even once you've been around for years
* nixternal seconds that one
<Hobbsee> thanks for the logs
<Lure> marseillai_: nice wiki page
<Riddell> well, marseillai_ gets a +1 from me for helping with merges
<marseillai_> Riddell: and there is absolutly no documentation on CDBS
<kwwii> looks solid to me, ++
<manchicken> That's why I'm just lazy and let you all do cdbs stuff.
<manchicken> ++marseillai_
<nixternal> +1 here without a doubt...plus he has helped me with some packaging questions :)
<Riddell> Hobbsee: got a vote?
<Hobbsee> reading
<nixternal> hehe
<Lure> +1 from me
<Hobbsee> sorry, head is pretty screwed up here
<nixternal> Riddell: give her a sec, she just woke up ;)
<kwwii> answering package questions can be even better than packaging at times
* nixternal pumps caffeine through the intartubes
<Lure> nixternal: s/sec/coffee/
<kwwii> as it enables others
<kwwii> as does coffee
<kwwii> :-)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> ahh, I just noticed marseillai_ is the one who beat me to kima :)
<marseillai_> "beat" you
<marseillai_> ??
* Lure thinks that Hobbsee is preparing a scary question ;-)
<mhb> marseillai_: but please, don't use multiple question marks whenever you're asking something :o) (correct me if i am wrong)
<ryanakca> marseillai_: hmm. maybe we should try convincing nixternal to write some CDBS docs that are KDE/Kubuntu specific :)
<nixternal> I was going to get that packaged and then noticed it already in the archives
<Hobbsee> plus one for me
<marseillai_> ryanakca: sure!!!
* Hobbsee cant appear to find the plus key
<Riddell> great, welcome to membership marseillai_
<marseillai_> thanks every one
<nixternal> woohoo! welcome marseillai_! congratulations!
<ryanakca> congrats marseillai_
<marseillai_> :)
<Riddell> anyone else here for membership?
<Lure> marseillai_: congrats!
* Hobbsee is here for membership.
<ryanakca> lol
<nixternal> +100000
<nixternal> for Hobbsee
<marseillai_> i'm happy and I'll continue contributing trust me. :)
<Lure> Hobbsee: wrong meeting ;-)
<Jucato> heheh :)
<nixternal> hahah, ooh good on Lure
<Hobbsee> awwww.  dammit.
<_StefanS_> Riddell: I'm here :)
<Hobbsee> that's right, there's 3 today.
<Riddell> _StefanS_: for membership?  got a wiki page?
<manchicken> Now marseillai_ has to get the Kubuntu logo tattooed on the buttock of his choosing.
<_StefanS_> Riddell: yep, for membership, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefans
<_StefanS_> Riddell: didn't get it all done yet, since I had to attend to family
<marseillai_> manchicken: oh yes! great! can i choose a green one ? ;)
<Jucato> marseillai_: congrats! I told you you'd make it :D
<marseillai_> Jucato: yes thanks to all of you
<manchicken> marseillai_: You'll have to talk to kwwii about that.
<kwwii> marseillai_: only if it has pink highlights
<yuriy> -1 for _StefanS_ for not putting himself on the agenda :P
<yuriy> jk
<Riddell> _StefanS_: able to introduce yourself in a few lines?
<_StefanS_> yuriy: bah :P
<_StefanS_> Riddell: yes..
<Hobbsee> I have an agenda point with the KC and voting for !not membership, for after the members are done
<nixternal> _StefanS_: LP page?
<Hobbsee> _StefanS_: you should be able to ad lib
<_StefanS_> I'm 29 years old, Danish, living in Naestved (80km from Copenhagen), married with kids :)
<_StefanS_> have my own consulting company. Currently working fulltime as subcontractor for a larger company
<nixternal> nevermind..I can read
<kwwii> _StefanS_: so what exactly have you been doing for kubuntu? packaging, programming, etc.?
<_StefanS_> I'm a Infrastructure consultant, Programmer, Have been using Linux and AIX for 7 years in the enterprise, 2 on the desktop
<_StefanS_> The infamous logout dialog, some fixes for xdg menus before feisty was released
<_StefanS_> Working on kdesu with background fade
<kwwii> ahh, right - now I remember ;-)
<nixternal> I see kde-systemsettings package in LP...59 bugs, plan on getting them all fixed anytime soon :D
<_StefanS_> kwwii: show me the logo :D
<kwwii> ;-)
<mhb> _StefanS_: the "famous" logout dialog :o)
<_StefanS_> mhb: hehe, yes... and hated by many it seems.
<Jucato> kwwii: the logout dialog that's dying to be themeable :)
<manchicken> StefanS has also sent me hardware which has been used for development here and some has made its way to Free Geek Chicago.
<kwwii> Jucato: right :-)
<Lure> _StefanS_: only by girls (they wantg konqi)
<mhb> _StefanS_: loved by me and that's enough
<manchicken> _StefanS_ += 1
* Riddell really likes that logout dialogue
<neversfelde> +1
<Hobbsee> +1 here too
<_StefanS_> oh and I just submitted Tonio_ task on knetworkmanager and LEAP to upstream.
<Hobbsee> ooh, three's the + key
<Lure> _StefanS_: what are your plans for future (gutsy release cycle)?
<kwwii> yes, having someone who works at that level is a great idea, +1 from me
<nixternal> +2, 1 for _StefanS_  and 1 for the logout dialog ;)
<_StefanS_> Lure: more bling :)
<kwwii> bling is what pimps wear, btw
<nixternal> kwwii: we are all pimps
<_StefanS_> Lure: Well, and I will continue to help Riddell and Tonio_ fixing bugs found all around
* kwwii is going to pimp your linux!
<nixternal> wo0t
<_StefanS_> kwwii: (again) show me the logo :)
<Lure> _StefanS_: that would be great - we need bug fixing attention
<mhb> +1 for _StefanS_
<Lure> _StefanS_: and programmers like you to code the fixes
<manchicken> kwwii: We need something nice and slick like Ubuntu Studio's skin for that :)
<Jucato> +2 from me since _StefanS_ made the logout very customizable/configurable :)
<manchicken> kwwii: And to be honest, I couldn't care less about the color.
<Riddell> _StefanS_ gets a +1 from me for great patches
<_StefanS_> Jucato: hehe ;)
<_StefanS_> Riddell: the next thing I will promise is real debdiffs ;)
* Hobbsee checks who's actually on the council again
<fdoving> +1 for beeing danish.
<nixternal> hehe
<Lure> _StefanS_: gets +1 from me for fade/logout and recent work on knetworkmanager
<_StefanS_> Riddell: really, I'm promising :D
* ryanakca can't really vote, but +1 from me
<_StefanS_> fdoving: you're from the nordic region yourself, right ? :)
<marseillai_> +1 for logout dialog
<nixternal> fade as well? oh man, definitely +1
<Riddell> I think that's +1 from all council members, and many others aside, well done _StefanS_
<fdoving> _StefanS_: .no, yes :)
<Jucato> heheh
<kwwii> _StefanS_: as they have basically doubled my work-load you might be waiting a while for the logo
<Lure> Riddell: patches are fine, we will have Hobbsee soon in core-dev ;-)
<ryanakca> congrats _StefanS_
<toma> congrats
<nixternal> _StefanS_: congrats! welcome to the kwwii's pimp club!
<Riddell> anyone else for membership?
<_StefanS_> thanks !
<manchicken> heh
<_StefanS_> :D
<Knightlust> _StefanS_: congrats
<mhb> congrats _StefanS_
<Jucato> _StefanS_: you're the man! :)
<Lure> _StefanS_: congrats and thanks for all contributions!
<yuriy> congrats _StefanS_ , marseillai_
<Hobbsee> Lure: maybe :)
<fdoving> kwwii: there is apt:/ too, some fancy logo-thing would be nice, of course at the end of your todo somewhere.. among other wishlistitems :)
<_StefanS_> thanks alot all.
<nixternal> if there aren't any ore members, I need to head to school
<Lure> Hobbsee: s/maybe/sure/
<nixternal> s/ore/more
<kwwii> fdoving: wow, never saw that until now
<_StefanS_> kwwii: dont sweat it on the logo, I was just kidding you. I will survive without it, just have to fiddle something together myself
<nixternal> hehe, ya thanks to Jucato for showing me that one
<nixternal> apt:/ that is
<Riddell> ok, if there's no more memberships just now we can go along with the agenda
<Jucato> hehe :)
<Jucato> yay!
* ryanakca waves to nixternal
<nixternal> Riddell: I will take the 2 doc agenda items to the mailing list...is that OK?
<fdoving> kwwii: it's like apt-cache and package.ubuntu.com in one. but it's ugly. :)
<nixternal> I would like to get jjesse involved with it, and I need to leave
<Lure> Riddell: will you update LP with new members?
<kwwii> fdoving: we could at least use something similar to the adept icon for that
<Riddell> nixternal: ok
<Riddell> Lure: yes
<kwwii> fdoving: I am sure I can help you with the layout and artwork on that
<Riddell> mhb: your item (widget style)
<mhb> okay
<nixternal> rock on! congrats to the new members and thanks for the support! I will be back on in about an hour from school while the teacher tries to teach ASP.NET :/
* Hobbsee does launchpad-type things
<mhb> Discuss and decide Kubuntu's widget style (Polyester) improvements for Gutsy Gibbon.
<mhb> some screenshots here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/KubuntuGutsyPolyester
<kwwii> mhb: I think this is a great idea and would like to help in any way possible
<mhb> kwwii: cool :o)
<kwwii> we can certainly improve things
<manchicken> nixternal: Good luck with that.
<mhb> I think we need to discuss in what way should we improve things for gutsy
<mhb> I guess we could make the lines and borders smoother, similar to Domino
<Lure> mhb: and we need qt4 theme too
<kwwii> mhb: although the improved screens you show seem to dark to me, I think that you are right on with the line change
<Lure> we have more and more qt4 apps with default look
<Riddell> personally I just like things simple, plastik is nice to me :)
<yuriy> yes qt4 theme is important
<Lure> Riddell: that is why you have option to change it ;-)
<kwwii> Riddell: that only proves that you are a geek :p
<mhb> Riddell: I don't think we'll make them complicated
* Sho_ has been involved with Domino a little
<mhb> Lure: the author of polyester started the port
<mhb> Lure: to qt/kde4
* ryanakca likes Domino... simple and smooth
<manchicken> kwwii: Was there doubt?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: er...why am i not an administrator of kubuntu-members?
<Lure> mhb: any ETA for release?
<Hobbsee> but am of the council?
* Jucato has found the joys of domino as well :)
<mhb> Lure: not yet, but the code is on Launchpad and I'll try to help him so we can make it for gutsy
<Lure> mhb: great
<Riddell> Hobbsee: dunno, I'll try and change that after
<Hobbsee> Riddell: okay
* Hobbsee has done launchpadesque for the council, though
<Riddell> domino looks interesting, but I agree it's too dark there
<mhb> I'll probably talk to kwwii a bit more about this and we can then submit some mockups even Riddell would like :o)
<_StefanS_> I would be nice to get rid of some of the lines in the current theme, just think domino is a little too much IMHO
<fdoving> can we try to keep the previous colorconfigs and windecos etc, from the older releases, like have the feisty theme-items in gutsy, + the new gutsy look?
<mhb> Riddell: I don't want to change the style completely, it would be better to improve polyester
<Riddell> mhb: often with artwork the only way to get a real opinion is just to change the default and see if anyone complains
<Hobbsee> kwwii: when do you plan starting to get a tleast some of hte artwork into gutsy?
<kwwii> mhb and myself can work on it and then we'll shove it down your throat :p
<kwwii> Hobbsee: as soon as sabdfl lets me work on other projects (probably sometime in the next month)
<fdoving> domino looks like a cartoon to me. not very nice.
<kwwii> of course, we can still work on things on the side :-)
* Sho_ quietly notes he added an agenda point
<Lure> kwwii: and do not forget we need new kubuntu.org ;-)
<Jucato> btw, a suggestion about artwork, if it's possible to make the previous artworks available somewhere? packages or maybe a website?
<Hobbsee> ok
<Lure> kwwii: shiny one!
<kwwii> I think ubuntu will stay somewhat the same this time around so it would be nice to improve kubuntu so that people notice
<Riddell> kwwii: great
<kwwii> yes, the website is a definite "must"
<mhb> and we should grant fdoving's and Jucato's wishes
<fdoving> Jucato: exactly my point, not replace the themes, but add new default ones.
<Riddell> Lure: does the potential polyester port to qt 4 cover your agenda item?
<Lure> fdoving: I also do not like Domino, but I trust kwwii to make use of it for something nice ;-)
<Lure> Riddell: yes
<mhb> Lure: it was an example of the smoother lines
* _StefanS_ likes QtCurve because you can customize alot more than polyester, and is currently getting ported to KDE4
<mhb> and other things
<Riddell> ok, kwwii and mhb go wild
* fdoving likes qtcurve too.
<kwwii> yes, qtcurve is pretty amazing
<DaSkreech> Jucato: we could popcon them
<Hobbsee> can we do artwork discussion on list please?
<_StefanS_> kwwii: and he seems very active on the dev side
<Hobbsee> there's other things on the agenda that are probably more important, and artowrk tends to take a long time
<Jucato> DaSkreech: ah spyware :)
<fdoving> mhb: what's the win-deco in those screenshots?
<Riddell> Jucato: your item
<DaSkreech> Jucato: sign up spyware :)
<Hobbsee> actually, can i hijack first?
<_StefanS_> kwwii: the new redesign on the preferences have really improved things
<mhb> fdoving: crystal, vista-like buttons
<Hobbsee> *** Hobbsee hijacks the meeting,and brings a public service announcement***
<Jucato> ryanakca or mhb, care to take over? KMilo customization patch :)
<Jucato> er ok :)
<fdoving> mhb: nice. thanks, i'll replace my quartz for a few days, see if i like it :)
<Riddell> fdoving: about keeping old art settings in, as members you have commit rights to k-d-s so you can do that yourself if nobody else does
<ryanakca> ummm. sure
<DaSkreech> I think what makes Domino smoother is the lack of sharp dividing lines
<fdoving> Riddell: ok, but i don't like to step on toes :)
<Riddell> right, enough artwork
<Lure> Jucato: we want it!
<mhb> let's move on
* DaSkreech looks atta the hijacker
<_StefanS_> DaSkreech: exactly, but you could propose that to the developer of qtcurve, or just provide him with patches
<Hobbsee> *** I'd like to point out that just because you may not be on the kubuntu council doesnt mean that you cant vote on what you'd like to see, and doesnt mean that you cant bring up agenda points.  The kubuntu council *only* comes into play when there's memberships being done, and when there's no general consensus within the kubuntu community on an issue ***
<Jucato> what was Hobbsee going to say?
<ryanakca> The patch makes KMilo look more compact, and cleaner. It also makes it "themeable", so kwwii can theme it in the future, if he wishes
<Hobbsee> that ^
<Hobbsee> *** End Hobbsee hijack ***
<Riddell> Jucato: is there anything to discuss, seems someone just needs to upload that patch
<Lure> ryanakca: exactly, plus the default setting is already much better than old stuff
<Hobbsee> that patch looks cool to me, please get it in :)
<DaSkreech> kwwii: What's the policy for artwork in ubuntu ?
<Hobbsee> someone was asking about it a copule of days ago
<Jucato> Riddell: nope. everything's good to go :)
<Lure> Riddell: just upload it
<Lure> ;-)
<ryanakca> We wanted to see if anybody liked the patch, or if we should scrap the idea
<Riddell> DaSkreech: -> #kubuntu-devel
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: awtork stuff --> on list, please :
* Jucato spanks DaSkreech
<kwwii> DaSkreech: the policy? not sure what exactly you mean
<ryanakca> of course, it's more of a list item, now that I think of it.
<kwwii> erm, let's move that to the other channel
<fdoving> i'bve been using a patched kmilo for a while now, it works and looks good :)
<Riddell> ryanakca: I think you're up next
* ryanakca scratches his head and gives the microphone back to Jucato
<ryanakca> ok
* Jucato gives it back to ryanakca
<Jucato> er did we skip nixternal's item?
<Riddell> he said he was moving those to list
<Jucato> ok
* DaSkreech wants to see manchicken's thing
<ryanakca> At school, I did a couple usability tests on the kubuntu machine we have, and a couple things often came up
<DaSkreech> and Jucato's menu changes
<ryanakca> They didn't know the difference between the "System" menu, and "System Settings"
<Hobbsee> +1.  that's confusing
<kwwii> ryanakca: very good point - my wife didn't get that either
<ryanakca> They often looked for System settings stuff in the menu. Is it possible to rename "System" to "administration"?
<mhb> I don't get that, either
<Riddell> not all the things in System are for administration, e.g. hardware database
<yuriy> are you talking about the system menu in the kmenu or on kicker?
<kwwii> just change the system menu name to places
<yuriy> both are kind of a problem
<Hobbsee> kde menu is just getting nuts
<ryanakca> System menu in kmenu, and System Settings in kmenu
<Hobbsee> but then again, we're planning kickoff for this release, arent we?
<kwwii> the menu is getting way too long
<Jucato> we are? O.o
<yuriy> the way we are using the system menu on kicker by default,it should be called "places" instead imo
<Riddell> Hobbsee: no plans to have it as default
<Lure> Hobbsee: not as default, I hope...
<_StefanS_> Hobbsee: oh no, please dont do that kickoff thingy
<Hobbsee> was on the spec for kde4
<Hobbsee> i thought
<Riddell> although if someone wants to patch it that's fine
<Hobbsee> no package for it either, so...
<kwwii> yuriy: I agree with you on that
<fdoving> _StefanS_: you can switch with a rightclick, not that bad :)
<Jucato> maybe we can offer it as a package, but there are some problems when kickoff is uninstalled
<_StefanS_> fdoving: I know, but it sucks hard.
<ryanakca> So, what do we do about the naming issue?
<_StefanS_> fdoving: someone probably likes it though..
<Lure> Jucato: kickoff is major patch to kdebase - no apckage possible
<fdoving> _StefanS_: .. i actually agree.
<kwwii> _StefanS_: any good reasons for that opinion?
<_StefanS_> kwwii: it crashes alot.
<Jucato> yuriy: is it possible to have a different name for the "System Menu" other than "Places"?
<kwwii> ahhh, Lure said it best
<_StefanS_> kwwii: is slow, even on very recent hardware
<Riddell> ryanakca: I usually refer to seele on usability stuff, if you can convince her it's the way to go then I do it
<kwwii> and that is a good point too
<Lure> Jucato: but you can turn it on and off
<fdoving> Lure: a kicker-providing replacement package works, no?
<mhb> I like "Places" instead of the System Menu
<ryanakca> ok. Another confusing item
<Riddell> mhb: me too
<fdoving> i'm with mhb on "Places"
<yuriy> Jucato: like what? currently it only links to /home, /media, and remote:/
<kwwii> I think we should agree to move the "system menu" to places
<_StefanS_> places is good
<Riddell> we have to consider that whenever we change a string it breaks translations
<manchicken> I'm without opinion.
<Jucato> btw, if we ever do change the System Menu applet we also have to change the one in the K Menu optional menus
<kwwii> Riddell: those translations shouldn't be too hard, it is one less word after all
<manchicken> I don't know if it's possible to completely remove this confusion.
<Lure> I am also not sure if Places is muc better than System
<kwwii> manchicken: having two different names would go a long way to solving it
<yuriy> anyways i think ryanakca was talking about the kmenu not the applet
<ryanakca> A new user most likely don't know what a "Package" is. When they see "Adept (Package Manager" in KMenu -> System, they skim right over it. From what I saw, they often got confused between "Add and Remove Programs" and "Adept"
* toma was surprised about the bad dutch translation of the text installer from the alternate cd, but was very happy with the oem thing.
<Lure> would agree with Riddell to involve some usability help
<ryanakca> I was talking about the menu
<Riddell> ryanakca: would you be happy asking seele for a recommendation (when she gets back from berlin) and we can go with that
<_StefanS_> ryanakca: got me confused also
<manchicken> kwwii: I wouldn't disagree there...
<ryanakca> Riddell: sure, for both of them I guessL
<Riddell> ryanakca: new users also shouldn't need to care about packages, but about installing apps
<ryanakca> Riddell: Ok
<Jucato> Like I mentioned to ryanakca before, the System Menu optional menu in K Menu isn't enabled by default anyway.
<kwwii> ryanakca: also a good point, I have wondered if there was a difference between those two kmenu items myself
<yuriy> the system applet and the system menu contain completely different things and shouldn't be named the same
<ryanakca> s/L/?
<Jucato> yuriy: er.. "System Menu", not the "System" submenu in Kicker
<kwwii> add and remove programs is straight up and down, adept tells me nothing
<Lure> yuriy: +1, but I am not sure if Places is good replacement
* ryanakca hands the mic to whoever is next
<Hobbsee> places doesnt fit my kicker menu
<Jucato> yuriy: I'm referring to the System Menu optional menu
<Riddell> can we move on?  usability is second only to artwork for discussions that can't easily be resolved
<Hobbsee> sorry, kmenu
<Riddell> manchicken: your item
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-01
<manchicken> Sure.
<Lure> Riddell: ;-)
<Lure> Riddell: and we have agenda full of artwork and usability ;-)
<manchicken> I'm proposing a very simple, easy to understand program where VERY common issues are listed, and with one click you could solve the problem.
<_StefanS_> help center thingy..
<manchicken> Not really that...
<mhb> manchicken: I've been thinking about this app, and I'm not sure whether it will be as useful as desired
<Lure> manchicken: I like the idea to not need console, but I do not think this should be central place for fixes - rather applications should cope with such cases better
<mhb> I'm with Lure on that one
<Lure> for your example: adept should propose to run dpkg-configure
<manchicken> Lure: Sure.
<mhb> and it's hard to guess what problems will be the most common for a release
<fdoving> mhb, lure, that's fine, applications don't cope, then what do we do?
<Hobbsee> certainly the adept stuff is
<Lure> otherwise it looks like we have broken system that needs fixes ;-)
<fdoving> fix aall applications?
<manchicken> Lure: My biggest concern is that in the short term that is less likely to take hold.
<DaSkreech> Lure: I think that what he wants is for the person to not touch command line
<manchicken> And while we're waiting for these features, users are left being told to hit the command line.
<_StefanS_> you got all sorts of issues keeping the common issues list updated
<Hobbsee> but a generic "fix my wifi" is a bit....well, if it's using knetworkmanager - often that requires killing NetworkManager, starting it again, then doing other buggery.  also, you'd need root for that
<Lure> manchicken: if we can implement fix in menu, we can also add it to application effected, right?
<Riddell> it wouldn't be hard to change adept to offer that fix(/hack) as an option
<manchicken> I'm not talking about a permanent fix, or a once and for all fix.
<Lure> Riddell: really? couldn;t notifier do that?
<manchicken> I'm talking about something that we can put into place where we can have short-term fixes until the real fix is present.
<Riddell> Lure: spose so
<DaSkreech> manchicken: do you think this will come across as a We know this is broken we aren't going to fix it here is a band aid ?
<Lure> manchicken: my concern is that it would look worse than it is
<Jucato> I suggest that this one fix app would still be able to display terminal output, like what Adept has (can't remember the term for it)
<manchicken> Lure: I think writing a collection of well-presented shell scripts will be easier than making knetworkmanager reload network interfaces and renew DHCP leases.
<Lure> manchicken: true it would help for user with problem, but people just explore the menu and try to run stuff to try it out
<toma> DaSkreech++
* ryanakca agrees with DaSkreech
<manchicken> DaSkreech: I don't think people will see it that way.  Instead I think people will realize that there's something wrong when they are required to go to the command line.
<Riddell> another problem is a lot of issues would only come to light after release
<manchicken> Lets face it, if a user has to go to the command-line to fix a problem, that is a failure on our part.
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: we just did that for the unmount dialog.  *shrug*
<manchicken> This is a desktop distribution.
<Lure> manchicken: I know that some issues are more "common", therefore workarounds are fine
<manchicken> Users should be able to do everything without command-line interaction.
<DaSkreech> manchicken: I'm behind you for that. But what's the main problem we are trying to solve
<Lure> manchicken: I just do not want to have central place for them
<toma> manchicken: but you can not get an app which prevents that
<fdoving> manchicken: if we look at support, it's way easier to do commandline support, than GUI. explaining where to click is a pain. giving a command is easier. i'd prefer an dcop/dbus interface on that one-click-app :)
* ryanakca agrees that we should rather concentrate on getting things fixed for good, instead of bandaid treatment
<manchicken> DaSkreech: Getting folks to fix problems without command-line interaction.
<DaSkreech> ryanakca: but we need bandaids
<_StefanS_> fdoving: I think it would be a good idea, why not expose what is actually run if you need to do some debug/help on it ?
<DaSkreech> ryanakca: how long have we been telling people how to unlock the apt database?
<Hobbsee> *** can we look at what we can add, and how, as opposed to whether this is a good idea or not?  it seems most people, at least, think it's a good idea ***
<yuriy> Lure: i think when issues are "more common" that's when workarounds are NOT fine. for rare issues, workarounds are fine
<ryanakca> DaSkreech: yeah
<manchicken> Do we have dozens of c++ developers sitting around ready to patch programs for these complicated problems?
<Lure> manchicken: clicking again in knetworkmanager on interface/wlan does ifdown/ifup, btw
<DaSkreech> manchicken: Would something like the Examples folder suffice?
<mhb> I don't want to discuss it now, but I had an idea based on this one ... a collection of one-time scripts people can use with one click
<mhb> I even had a mockup somewhere
<kwwii> mhb: might be a good idea as long as it does not fsck things worse than before
<mhb> http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oneclickmockupoc3.png
<fdoving> automatifix :)
<manchicken> DaSkreech: My idea initially was to have an icon that sent you to a folder with .desktop entries that launched shell scripts to fix the problems.
<Lure> yuriy: I agree, but example (dpkg-configure -a) is a common issue, with clear solution
<Hobbsee> fdoving: twitch.
<DaSkreech> fdoving: ha ha :)
<mhb> kwwii: not necessarily fixes, little helper scripts
<Lure> yuriy: and it is not considered bandage
<manchicken> I don't even want to have to have a separate UI for things.
<DaSkreech> manchicken: that could be updated as we added more fixes?
<manchicken> I'd just like to see konq display icons for clicking.
<kwwii> this sounds like something we could add to the help system in a very prominent place
<yuriy> how is that not a bandage? dpkg shouldn't randomly fail. and if it does, it should be fixed invisibly to the user
<manchicken> DaSkreech: Don't see why not.
<_StefanS_> yuriy: not everything is perfect, you got to admit that
<fdoving> manchicken: icons for clicking that opens a konsole and runs scripts with -ex ?
<yuriy> also, what "common problems" are we actually talking about other than dpkg-configure -a?
<Hobbsee> i wonder about running dpkg --configure -a whenever adept closes - especailly if it could be detected that it was a crash
<DaSkreech> yuriy: Fixing network, fixing sudo lockouts, fixing apt issues
<Lure> yuriy: agree, but this will never happen (dpkg randomly failing) ;-)
<manchicken> fdoving: Ideally these scripts would do nothing but fix the problem and exit with no command line displaying.
<fdoving> manchicken: then i'm 100% against the whole idea.
<toma> maybe someone should make a complete list of things which should be fixed by this app
<_StefanS_> that thing could also be used to re-apply standard kubuntu settings and enable/disable some of the bling automatically
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: well, KCrash (or whatever the backtrace app is called) knows when it's a crash... maybe implement something that recognizes solely an adept crash and then runs dpkg --configure -a    ?
<Jucato> I'm against not showing what's going on. at least like Adept's Dpkg view
<_StefanS_> you should be able to see details if needed
<manchicken> fdoving: And I'm 100% against us telling users "oh, just enter this one simple command."
<manchicken> Because to many users, there is no such thing as one simple command.
<DaSkreech> toma: we have a list somewhere
<manchicken> It's black, and ugly, and unknown, and scary.
<toma> manchicken: windows also refers to cmd now and then
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: sounds sane, manchicken would have to give input
<_StefanS_> manchicken: I agree
<Lure> manchicken: the problem is that you will never cover all cases
<yuriy> ryanakca, Hobbsee: i think adept should run dpkg-configure on start up when it's not working. it already gives an error, just needs a button to run the fix.
<DaSkreech> toma: almost never
<ryanakca> hmmm... I guess
<Lure> yuriy: +1 (or adept_notifier)
<DaSkreech> toma: and I know people who feel dirty if they have to do that in windows
<toma> DaSkreech: yes they are, look at the knowledgebase answers
<_StefanS_> toma: you cant really compare, as alot of the "repair" is already available in the windows gui
<DaSkreech> toma: it's like someone on Linux from foreveer being told oh you have to edit your registry look for this alien string and find this alien key and switch it
<fdoving> manchicken: well.. an option to make it verbose then? - if this is ment as a tool for us to support users, we need something more than 0 or 1, success or fail.
<yuriy> how would users access such an app?
<Lure> DaSkreech: yes, but we shoudl add "Troubleshoot" stuff near the failure and not to central place
<DaSkreech> toma: it may work but it scares the hell out of you
<Lure> DaSkreech: you want to hide such stuff ;-)
<DaSkreech> Lure: Yeah
<toma> DaSkreech: again, i would like to see a complete list of things that you want to fix with that app.
<Riddell> well, I see lots of potential problems with it, but of course if someone codes it we can't stop them, and it would be interesting to see the feedback that gets
<Lure> I agree with toma: we first need a list, then we can agree what make sense and what is the best way to address it
<DaSkreech> toma: we shoudl have wikied it :(
<Riddell> mhb's mockup does look interesting
<DaSkreech> toma: it's floating on gobby.ubuntu.com
<Lure> I belive that each bandage may need special handling
<DaSkreech> Lure: ++
<Riddell> you could even do hot new stuff to update it after release (scary idea)
<DaSkreech> Riddell: Errm no :)
<DaSkreech> and I'm a GHNS pimp
<fdoving> Riddell: very scary, as i guess most scripts will need root access.
<_StefanS_> fdoving: cant you make a way of undoing changes also ?
<_StefanS_> fdoving: like a rollback feature
<mhb> Riddell: yes, something like that ... but I know it's scary
<toma> i think Riddell means using hot new stuff to add new scripts to the application. Not to scary for me.
<mhb> Riddell: the scripts would have to be reviewed
<Riddell> our main focus should be on actually fixing the issues, the adept one does seem entirely fixable even if with a hack in adept rather than outwith it
<Riddell> mhb: of course
<DaSkreech> Riddell: as far as I know GHNS currently doens't have versioning
<Riddell> so code away if you want, but no guarantees it'll ever go on the CD
<DaSkreech> which makes it a terrible choice
<fdoving> toma: of those scripts are to be run as root - does hotnewstuff have some kind of md5sum checking thing?
<DaSkreech> Riddell: Could it be one of those things we ask people to try out of their own will first?
<toma> fdoving: i believe not anyone can add scripts blindly
<Riddell> lets move on
<Riddell> Sho_: your item
<fdoving> toma: i'd like some checksum-verification, really.
<DaSkreech> So the consensus is code it and we shall see?
<Lure> manchicken: can we add a table to your wiki with issue:reason:solution kind of proposal
<Sho_> Alright
<toma> fdoving: you can make that ;-)
<manchicken_> I **HATE** wireless networking.  It is the asscrack of all networking.
<manchicken_> Lure: Sure.  Not a problem.
<fdoving> toma: yep :)
<manchicken_> Lure: I was gonna make you work on it anyway ;)
<_StefanS_> manchicken_: you should buy some descent equipment ;)
<Sho_> The issue at hand is that Kubuntu ships a bunch of default settings and modifications to Konversation which deviate from upstream, and which upstream (that is me and my co-developers) are unhappy with
<Lure> manchicken: then it will be empty table ;-)
<manchicken_> _StefanS_: For wireless networking there is no such thing.
<DaSkreech> manchicken_: I have a cord and some tin cans
<_StefanS_> manchicken_: I disagree.
<fdoving> manchicken_: i liked your konqueror + .desktop idea. simple and very convenient.
<Lure> Sho_: examples?
<Sho_> We've previously been talking to our Kubuntu liason Hobbsee who has agreed to bring those issues up, but as things have stagnated for a while I've decided to become a little more proactive
<Riddell> wheesht people, listen to Sho_
<Sho_> Here's some detail on what exactly we have problems with: http://konversation.kde.org/kubuntu-issues.txt
<Hobbsee> Sho_: thanks.  uni stuff and crap :(
<Riddell> ooh system tray shouldn't be on by default? yay!
<toma> Sho_: the list looks sane to me, we should fix some things.
<DaSkreech> ha ha
<DaSkreech> First thing I thought
<Sho_> I'm told Riddell hates systray icons, so #1 should be a nobrainer ;)
<mhb> yes
<kwwii> lol
<Sho_> :)
<toma> Sho_: last one as well
<Hobbsee> 1 & 4 are no brainers
<Lure> Sho_: first: I did not agree with some default changes, however I am not sure how can upstream really work with distro about such customization of defaults
<Hobbsee> 3 tonio_ will argue with you over, that the default theme doesnt make implicit sense - but i'm not sure that terms like "voice" etc do either
<yuriy> what's wrong with the systray icon? :(
<DaSkreech> why was 3 done?
<Lure> Sho_: kubuntu does quite some changes from default kde, but this is imho good as some new ideas can be tested with wider audience
<fdoving> Sho_: good points.
<manchicken_> Sho_: My concern here would be that these seem like normal things that many distros do to many different programs.
<DaSkreech> yuriy: Riddel hates any and all System tray icons :)
<manchicken_> Sho_: So why is it such a big deal?
<DaSkreech> yuriy: after a while staring at windows I agree
* yuriy wishes irssi in konsole could have a systray icon
<manchicken_> Most of these things are just packaging.
<DaSkreech> Sho_: I think that konvi and kopete fall in near the same category
<Riddell> Sho_: the only one I disagree with is tabs on the left are good because you can fit more in.  I have 140 irc windows open, that works as well as it can with a listview on the left but not with tabs along the bottom
<Sho_> manchicken_: Perhaps we care about Kubuntu more than about other distros for the same reasons you probably think it's a really neat distro? ;-)
<fdoving> yuriy: you can put konsole in systray. check out kstart :)
<DaSkreech> Sho_: Kopete I think should have a icon tray maybe konvi shoudl as well?
<kwwii> Riddell: I agree with that as well, but all bottom-up text based apps should have the same tab placement for usability reasons
<Sho_> manchicken_: Fact is, Kubuntu is the KDE-centric desktop distro people go for these days, and whatever Konvi Kubuntu ships shapes the public image of Konvi to a great degree
<fdoving> Riddell: you're a special case :)
<Jucato> yuriy: or modify the K Menu entry :)
<_StefanS_> I like konversation in tray by default
<kwwii> new users expect tabs to be in the same place
<DaSkreech> Riddell: I don't think you are a standard user case
<manchicken_> Sho_: But my concern is that upstream and distro have always been a bit of a separation of powers.  This seems like there may be a bit of a boundary crossing to me.
<kwwii> we should definitely ask usability peeps about tab placement
<Riddell> it seems not usual for people to have more than 10 irc windows open
<Hobbsee> I want a decision that "this is how we're running konversation", and that the default settings dont change after that, without consensus from the KC.  This is ridiculous
<manchicken_> I'm but a lowly geek though.  I'll yield to others, that's just my $0.02.
<Lure> kwwii: +1 - left side channels are really useful for heavy irc users
<Sho_> manchicken_: Our stance is that we spend more time thinking about our defaults than distributions and that distributions shouldn't change what we come up with on a whim
<Lure> kwwii: geeks ;-)
<toma> Riddell: can you fix konsole? I have more open then fits in there..
<kwwii> Lure: exactly :-)
<manchicken_> Sho_: Why not?
<Sho_> manchicken_: For example, the tab position change was clearly done on a whim by maintainer preference (I get it, it looks cooler - I wrote it, I like it too), which I don't think is a good enough reason
<Lure> kwwii: I was fighting against tab placement change, but lost :-(
<manchicken_> Sho_: Why does it matter to upstream konversation though?
<DaSkreech> manchicken_: Kubuntu is high profile
<Sho_> manchicken_: see [00:41]  <Sho_> manchicken_: Fact is, Kubuntu is the KDE-centric desktop distro people go for these days, and whatever Konvi Kubuntu ships shapes the public image of Konvi to a great degree
<kwwii> everone needs a 1024x768 screen to understand why the left tabs waste space as well
<Riddell> Sho_: it's not just the looks, don't you run out of space with bottom tabs?
<Lure> Sho_: it is better only for heavy IRC user (like us), but not for typicall kubuntu user that may use it only to get support in #kubuntu (one channel)
<DaSkreech> Hold on. Everyone agrees on point 4 ?
<manchicken_> Sho_: So does that mean that konvi now gets to dictate how kubuntu packages konvi?
<kwwii> Riddell: non-geeks don't have that many channels open
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: yes
<ryanakca> point 4 is fine by me
<Riddell> DaSkreech: sure
<Lure> Riddell: you do,m bt not typicall user that wants to get help by Jucato in #kubuntu ;-)
<DaSkreech> manchicken_: no he's asking us to look at the default changes
<Sho_> Riddell: Yes, that's one of the reasons people like the treelist over the tab bar. However I'd argue that new users tend not to open so many views that they run into the problem, and by the time they do, they'll probably be in a position to find the preference themselves.
<Riddell> manchicken_: they're asking, not dictating
<Jucato> heh :)
<kwwii> manchicken_: no, but being the representative kde dist is a very important thing
<Riddell> kwwii: but non-geeks don't use irc
<neversfelde> ah
* neversfelde does
<kwwii> Riddell: but they still need things to be usable on first use - geeks love to change things
<_StefanS_> kwwii: good point !
<neversfelde> yeah
<mhb> Riddell: well, they might start, a lot of (k)ubuntu help points them to IRC
<ryanakca> I think #2 can be easily fixed...
<manchicken_> Yes, but we need to distribute how we think is best to distribute, not how we think upstream would like us to distribute.  If both of these goals align, fantastic.  If they're in conflict, I would say upstream takes the back seat.
<toma> i would vote for tabs at bottom for the default, but this discussion will be endless... seele?
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: sure it can - but we dont want to change it yet again.
<Sho_> manchicken_: We're not in a position to dictate, but it'd be swell if we could discuss the issues we have?
<Riddell> manchicken_: mind that if we annoy upstream too much we end up not having any software
<kwwii> manchicken_: sure, but this is a matter of where the tabs are, not something amazingly hard to prove usability-wise
<fdoving> i'd say do what the konversation developers have spent hours deciding. what some packager did in 4 minutes doesn't really matter that much.
<manchicken_> Sho_: Sure.  But some of these things seem to be of rather little consequence.  I'm just concerned that konversation--a program that I am now using and have been using for quite some time--may be trying to control downstream distribution a little too much.
<kwwii> we should ask seele and other usability peeps on this (but I know what they are going to say)
<mhb> manchicken_: don't forget, "downstream loves them (KDE)"
<Jucato> manchicken_: while distros have the right to change defaults and customize, it doesn't mean of course that we do so on a whim. It also doesn't mean that just because we have decided on something that it totally closed for discussion w/ upstream
<Sho_> manchicken_: Surely you don't find it odd that the developers of software have a stake in how it's going to be presented to the users?
<Sho_> manchicken_: We're not your wall socket code supply, we make apps
* ryanakca agrees with the tabs part. It should be the same in all apps: Tree or tabs. And it's (tree) wasted space. If you want a tree, look in preferences.
* Hobbsee checks if we're adding new stuff here
<Riddell> I suspect we've run out of new stuff
* Hobbsee ponders saying "take this to the list, and get seele's input"
<mhb> yeah
<Hobbsee> toma: has a point about debian
<Jucato> ryanakca: but we don't have preferences, we have settings :P
<DaSkreech> Nicklist?
<Riddell> should we do a council vote?
<ryanakca> DaSkreech: channel list
<Jucato> exercise new powers :)
<mhb> I suggest waiting for the usability folks
<mhb> to comment on it
<DaSkreech> ryanakca: Right I'm asking on opinion
<manchicken_> I'm just gonna pull out of this conversation and go AFK for a bit.
<DaSkreech> Should it be changed?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: fairly sure tonio_ will throw a cow if we do, as he feels strongly on this, and we dont have seele's input either, which i'd prefer to see
<mhb> like Hobbsee said
<Sho_> Notably Ellen Reitmayr from the KDE usability team is a participant in Konversation's development process, and an active Konvi user.
<ryanakca> Riddell: I'd put it on the ML, and if no concensus by next meeting, then KC can vote
<Lure> mhb: +1 on usability review
<Hobbsee> and/or el
<Sho_> Haven't heard any complaints from her about the bottom default so far.
<nixternal> OK, I am back..sorry for that
<kwwii> don't worry, I'll give tonio the love he needs
<DaSkreech> Sho_: wait? the squares one?
<ryanakca> wb nixternal
<Lure> Hobbsee: I think imbrandon was pushing for tree and not Tonio_
<Hobbsee> Lure: right
<nixternal> that was a quick drive
* Lure remebers fighting with imbrandon about this ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<DaSkreech> Sho_: Simplistic?
<ryanakca> lol
<jjesse> mtg still going on?
<Riddell> ok, let's get el to explain the ratonal from a usability view, seele to review and follow that
<Hobbsee> jjesse: yep
<Riddell> and break the no sys tray thing gently to tonio
<kwwii> Riddell: +1
<Sho_> DaSkreech: The default theme is "Simplistic", yeah
<fdoving> there is probably not a reason all kde apps have the tabs at top or bottom. :)
* DaSkreech votes for keeping the current theme
<Sho_> On what grounds?
<Lure> Sho_: bottom tabs is better for sure - near the text reading area and consistent with konsole
<DaSkreech> It's impossible to read
<Hobbsee> people tend not to grok the different parts of irc anyway, so i dont suspect that the symbols really mean much to the user
<Hobbsee> apart from the "greyed out means away"
<Riddell> ok, any other business?
<kwwii> let's leave this up to those who specialize in this area
<Hobbsee> in which case the point is moot
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yes, toma
<Lure> DaSkreech: I agree that default theme is not good enough, but I vote for kwwii to help konversation gust with new icons
<Sho_> DaSkreech: The nickname list widget has a comprehensive "What's This" help tooltip that uses the active theme to describe the different states, and the theme preview widget in the preferences dialog has description tooltips.
<Jucato> Lure; +1 :D
<DaSkreech> Hobbsee: yeah but I can easily glance at the nicklist and ascertain that some people have powers with squares
<DaSkreech> I can't do that with simplistic
<DaSkreech> unless it's explained
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: true that.  i actually agree with you - that's what i use too
<Hobbsee> but tonio will absolutely throw a cow over it :)
<Riddell> toma has an item?
<toma> In some recent discussions with the debian KDE team it appears that they are not really happy with the coorparation between both parties and I would like to organise a meeting between both to see where we can help eachother. Please -1 if objecting, +1 if you want to attend, 0 if you dont care
<Sho_> DaSkreech: The nickname list widget has a comprehensive "What's This" help tooltip that uses the active theme to describe the different states, and the theme preview widget in the preferences dialog has description tooltips.
<fdoving> +1
<mhb> +1
<DaSkreech> Sho_: you are assuming that people click on that
<Hobbsee> Riddell: yeah.  the agenda didnt catch up with his brainwaves, though.
<Sho_> oops, sry
<Riddell> toma: actually I hope to plan the real life meeting at debconf
<Lure> toma: +1
<kwwii> +1
<Riddell> err, attend, not plan
* Hobbsee didnt use the what's this help tooltip for a good few years - wouldnt have thought to put that on the contact list
<Sho_> DaSkreech: Our main concern with the theme Kubuntu chose is that it's graphically poor. If Kubuntu is going to deviate from our default, maybe another option would be to spend some art resources on fixing the theme.
<Lure> Sho_: but good icon is always better than tooltip
<ryanakca> +1
<Sho_> DaSkreech: We're not married to the default, but we'd like for the app not to look like shit.
<DaSkreech> Sho_: I vote for fixing it
<toma> Riddell: ok, that's nice, but not many people here will be there I guess
<Hobbsee> we need to look at sending oru changes back to debian, and oru bugs back - else we just make them furious
<Sho_> DaSkreech: we're ok with that
<Lure> Sho_: exactly - I hope kwwii can help here with some icon proposal
<DaSkreech> Sho_: would you like to contribute what makes it poor?
<Jucato> +1 for asking kwwii for some awesome looking icons :)
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: you're volunteering?
<mhb> Sho_: let's keep it family friendly .o)
<toma> can we stop the konversation discussion please?
<kwwii> looks like I am voluntold to make icons
<yuriy> kubuntu kde packaging is completely separate from debian?
<DaSkreech> toma: +1
<DaSkreech> kwwii: lol
<Riddell> yuriy: no, it's mostly the same
<Hobbsee> yuriy: no - but it's mainly bugs now
<Lure> kwwii: just 4 or so (not 20 batteries ;-)
<Hobbsee> which we should really send back
<nixternal> toma: +1 on the Debian KDE meeting, however physically will be a hard one for me since I am back in school...1 year left then we can all party Kubuntu style :)
<yuriy> oh i thought Riddell packages the new KDE every time
<yuriy> or is that just for kubuntu.org?
<Hobbsee> there's a reportbug-ng too, so you dont have to use email
<Hobbsee> yuriy: nope.  and nope
<Sho_> DaSkreech: The colour palette doesn't fit very well into either KDE or Kubuntu defaults, and the serif typography doesn't look particularly fresh.
<Hobbsee> yuriy: we have to rebuild for kubuntu, and add some of our stuff, but otherwise it's the same
<DaSkreech> Sho_: noted
<yuriy> oh ok
<toma> i want a meeting to see where we can help each other and with all people involved, i think thats only possible on irc
<DaSkreech> Sho_: can i request that you put that on the text that we are referencing ?
<Sho_> Ok, so to sum things up: Disabling the systray icon is a go; removing the C++ patch is a go; theme is going to the artwork people; tab bar ... what?
<Riddell> toma: meeting sounds fine, should it be before or after debconf?
<mhb> an irc meeting would be lovely for those that can't attend debconf
<DaSkreech> Sho_: usabilty
<toma> Riddell: what do you think?
<mhb> from both sides
<DaSkreech> Sho_: then a decision
<Hobbsee> Sho_: tab bar to the usability
<Hobbsee> people
<Sho_> DaSkreech: Isn't it kind of redundant to double-check KDE Usability with Kubuntu Usability? ;-)
<Riddell> Sho_: tab bar we ask el for a rationale and seele for feedback and follow them
<Sho_> hmkay
<Lure> toma: I think irc meeting is fine and Riddell (+whoever) does f-to-f on debconf
<Hobbsee> meeting would be good - give me at least a couple of weeks so i can go thru those logs again and become sanely thought out
<DaSkreech> Sho_: sure it is. Swing us what KDE usabilty said :)
<toma> can we stop the konversation discussion please?
<Sho_> DaSkreech: As noted above, El is a participant in our process and so far hasn't complained about the bottom default, anyway
<toma> ok
<Hobbsee> Riddell: please do impress on them at debconf htat you're interested in making the distros kde both as good as possible, not just trying to add crackful bling
* yuriy cringed as he anticipated reading "can we stop the konversation conversation please"
<toma> good nite all, i'll set it in motion
<DaSkreech> Nite
<fdoving> nite.
<DaSkreech> nixxy baby!
<mhb> anything else?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: afaik, that's not hte case - but it is the perception
<Riddell> Hobbsee: what's not the case?
<Sho_> DaSkreech: I've added the points about the theme to the txt file
<DaSkreech> Sho_: thanks
<Hobbsee> Riddell: that you're adding crackful bling, and not interested in making kde work the best - just making it the shinyest
<Hobbsee> id' have to look up the exact quote
<Riddell> we only add good bling
<Riddell> any other business?
<Hobbsee> well, good bling too.
<nixternal> no gold wheels with spinners please
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i want a pony, please.
<Riddell> should we try and hold regular kubuntu meetings?
<jjesse> yes
<Hobbsee> oh yes, that's right
<Lure> Riddell: yes!
<mhb> sure
<Lure> Riddell: bi-weekly?
<Hobbsee> * Volunteers for helping to clean up the kubuntu wiki
<Hobbsee> please, if there are people who are interested, do so
<Hobbsee> i cleaned up a hwole lot of breezy kubuntu stuff at UDS
<Jucato> Hobbsee: I'll try to see if I could help this weekend on that
<yuriy> kubuntu wiki being wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu?
<Lure> Hobbsee: +1 - I like KernelTeam desing
<Lure> design even
<Hobbsee> yuriy: category kubuntu stuff
<Hobbsee> havent seen that, sorry
<Hobbsee> * Have monthly meetings, maybe on the first wednesday of each month was the plan
<Hobbsee> Riddell: apparently our kde4 packages start - we probably want to look at working more with debian on this?
<Hobbsee> tha's where we got blasted for a lot
<DaSkreech> Hobbsee: a Mustang?
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: hm?
<Riddell> Lure: do you think we have enough business for fortnightly?
<Lure> Riddell: we can probably start with monthly as Hobbsee proposed
<DaSkreech> Hobbsee: for your pony
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: ahh
* Hobbsee has notes from UDS on this stuff
<DaSkreech> What's the criteria for wiki cleanup?
<Riddell> how about first wednesday of each month?
<Riddell> I remember that was suggested at UDS
<Hobbsee> DaSkreech: "anything that's not needed"
<Lure> Riddell: what time - like tonight?
<Hobbsee> i believe that pending timetable, tha'ts okay
<Hobbsee> Lure: yeah
<Riddell> Lure: at a time that suits best for the month?
<Hobbsee> Lure: it'd change when daylight savings screws up, though
<Hobbsee> as in, it's hinged upon my time, so it'll change when au timezones do
<Lure> or do we have two times (to better fit people like Jucato and then alter?
<Riddell> so next meeting, 4th of july
<Hobbsee> Lure: doesnt really work - we miss the europeans
<Hobbsee> i've tried that
<Jucato> :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: tha't sa US holiday, isnt it?
<DaSkreech> Hobbsee: as in out of date?
<Riddell> yes, means they have no excuse for being at work :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Lure> Hobbsee: right, as it is during our work hours....
<Hobbsee> Lure: exactly
<Riddell> any volunteer to do minutes from this meeting?
<nixternal> Wednesday for me is busy between after 22:00 UTC
<Sho_> Hobbsee: (btw, you're going to ping us when the results on the usability review are in?)
<Hobbsee> Sho_: will CC you on all the relevant mailing list mail, yes.
<nixternal> argh this ssh is killing me
<Riddell> Sho_: sure, and it's less a review more an opinion, no need to spend hours on it
<Riddell> nixternal: another day suit better?
<Lure> nixternal: we can probably do also Tue or Thu
<Riddell> thursdays tend to have other meetings
<Hobbsee> actually, screw that
<Sho_> Hobbsee, Riddell: k, thanks
<nixternal> Riddell: Monday - Thursday after 22:00 is busy for me for school...anytime before 22:00 is fine
<Hobbsee> my timetable will change next semester - there's only one more weke of class
<Jucato> kthxbye? lolcode! :)
<Lure> Sho_: and thans for great app!
<Lure> Sho_: thanks even
<Riddell> nixternal: 22:00 local time?
<nixternal> UTC
<Sho_> Lure: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: definetly UTC.  if anyone gives me a timezone in NST or FUTZ, i shoot them.
<Jucato> hehehe
<Riddell> ok, well lets try wednesdays and pick a time closer to the date
<Hobbsee> give me a min, i'm fighting estudent
<Hobbsee> ooh, saner timetable!
<Hobbsee> okay, tuesday and wednesday works here, but we may bea ble to push the meeting alter anyway
<mhb> aww, 22:00 UTC is midnight here :o(
<Hobbsee> Riddell: (up arrow here)
<mhb> but it's fine for one or two meetings
<Riddell> mhb: and he needs it before that time
<Riddell> still looking for minutes volunteers :)
<mhb> Riddell: oh, before that is fine
<mhb> Riddell: I'll do it
<Riddell> yay
<Riddell> meeting over I think
<Hobbsee> seems so
<Hobbsee> thanks all for coming
<Riddell> thanks all
<Hobbsee> 1/3 meetings down
<Hobbsee> and yay, core dev tonight!  maybe
<Riddell> oh yes, everyone come and support Hobbsee for core dev tomorrow european morning
<Hobbsee> 930 UTC, iirc
<Jucato> what time? (UTC)
* Jucato computes
<Hobbsee> 7.30pm local
<Hobbsee> not sure for you
<Jucato> cool 5:30 pm :)
<Jucato> er.. wait
<Jucato> should be 5:30. I'll compute later eheheh
<Lure> Hobbsee: good luck with core-dev - you will rock!
<mhb> Hobbsee: good luck
<Hobbsee> thanks :)
<Jucato> Hobbsee: you don't need luck. you have your Long Pointy Stick of Doom TM :)
<Hobbsee> Jucato: heh
<DaSkreech> Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom
* kwwii heads off for bed soon
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Jun 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<spiderman_> hi there   im trying to connect MS blue tooth keyboard in ubuntu 7.0.4 and getting error Can't create HID control channel: Connection refused ... can any one tell me what to do
<spiderman_> ?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<mdz> Hobbsee: ping?
<Hobbsee> mdz: pong, on release management conference call
<Hobbsee> as is keybuk
<mdz> Hobbsee: ok, though I have an 1100 meeting
<Hobbsee> mdz: in what TZ?
<mdz> Hobbsee: about 6 minutes from now
<Hobbsee> bugger
<mdz> is the call finished?
<Hobbsee> almost
<mdz> we scheduled from 0930-1000 UTC for this meeting
<Hobbsee> right, OK
<mdz> did the release call run over, or was there a scheduling error?
<Hobbsee> soryr - meeting started 45 mins late.
<Hobbsee> it ran over
<Hobbsee> mdz: it's done now
<Hobbsee> hiya Keybuk
<fabbione> Hobbsee: trying to become core-dev?
<Hobbsee> fabbione: yes
<mdz> fabbione: australia-compatible tech board meeting
<fabbione> ok.. mdz, Keybuk: you have my plus on her work to be core-dev
<fabbione> (for what it matters)
<fabbione> i have been eyeballing her work from time to time and it was good
<mdz> Keybuk: did you hear anything from mjg59?
<mdz> sabdfl is in the office
<fabbione> mdz: yeah i could guess that
<Hobbsee> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-May/000124.html was Riddell's input, he found out late
<Keybuk> mdz: it's about 5 hours until he gets up
<Hobbsee> mdz: i'm not sure what you want to do, in the interests of time now.  it's your call.
<Riddell> that post doesn't read as enthusiastically as it should have done :)
<sabdfl> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi sabdfl
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: sorry for the delay
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: no problem - our conference call on release management only just ended.
<Hobbsee> which Keybuk was on as well
<sabdfl> Keybuk: mdz has another call so it's just you me and mjg59 iirc
<sabdfl> should we get started?
<Keybuk> Hobbsee: how did you find UDS?  did you have a productive week?  any suggestions for how we might improve the format/sessions to make them better?
<ogra> if one MOTU deserves it, its Hobbsee
* ogra cheers
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: i found it useful, when it wasnt freezing cold.  i had a fairly productive week, getting to know people
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: what does -core-dev mean, in your opinion, other than the ability to upload to main/restricted?
<Hobbsee> it's hard for the more community type people to actually get stuff done - it's very coding focussed
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: a responsibility for QA, being able to merge seeds, etc. more so than just MOTU.
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: the sessions seemed better this time, from what i'd heard.  the hotel and such worked really well.
<mdz> I've delayed my meeting by 30 minutes
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: oh, and getting to know the canonical people were really cool
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: which sessions were you mostly involved in?
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: kubuntu, obviously, irc, forum ambassadors, a bit of planet stuff...
<Hobbsee> ended up sitting on a copule of "canonical" ones, like the developer weather report
<cjwatson> (I don't think that's particularly Canonical FWIW, though it should probably end up running on a DC machine)
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: actually, that's one thing i'd like to see - an awareness that developer weather report, etc, or some of the more archive-y things you dont actually need to be a canonical employee for - they wont kick you out
<Hobbsee> it's not, i suspect, but the perception was there
<cjwatson> I think, for those sessions that were closed, we were reluctant to overly draw attention to them by pointing out that everything else was open :-)
<mdz> Hobbsee: you mentioned to me that it wasn't apparent to you that it was possible to get involved in certain activities without Canonical, and I've heard indications like that from others as well (for example, people who think that ubuntu-core-dev is only Canonical).  Do you have any thoughts about how we can help to communicate better that this is not the case?
<cjwatson> but it's an interesting point
<Hobbsee> mdz: i think the canonical wiki is a big problem - it's got all htis secret info
<Hobbsee> of course, the fact that it's secret, and we see bits of secret info coming off it, makes us all wonder how much else we're missing out on
<Hobbsee> which makes it hard to actually feel involved in some of the higher stuff.
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: true that.  and i wasnt including the intel stuff in that.
<Hobbsee> mdz: i'm not sure, to be honest.  it's a very big perception on MOTU == community, core-dev == canonical.  it's becoming apparent that there are other non-canonical core devs...
<mdz> Hobbsee: we try to draw that line clearly, and keep Ubuntu activity separate from Canonical activity.  information about business relationships, employees, etc. will always be confidential.  is there something in particular which you feel is misplaced?
<Keybuk> mdz: she spoke about the *Process wiki pages during the call
<Hobbsee> but as soon as you deal in anything which requires ubuntu-archive powers, or anything special on LP, you're stuffed.
<mdz> that was sabdfl's call
<Keybuk> as a community member, it's hard for her to be involved with the milestone or release process, because those checklist/tasklists are on the canonical wiki
<Hobbsee> mdz: it's a bit of working in the dark.  and most people wont do that.
<Hobbsee> okay, it's a lot of working in the dark, and backtracking, to guess what that info might be.
<Hobbsee> mdz: of course business, employees, etc, will be confidential.  it's hard to say, without actually being able to see what's there, what i'd like to see moved from there to somewhere public of course.  but any of the documentation, like release management, which isnt trouble for compeditors to have shouldnt be a problem, i w ould think
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure if i'im making sense here
<Hobbsee> blerg.
<Hobbsee> "if it's not company-secret, then release it"
<Hobbsee> is the upshot.
<mdz> that is in fact pretty much our guideline
<Hobbsee> and i fail to see how stuff like RM'ing is company secret - if the iso testing is public
<mdz> we try to be as transparent as possible
<Hobbsee> then it's a question of whether your perception matches your actions.
<mdz> Hobbsee: I agree with you, it should be able to be public
<Hobbsee> you'll find, if you spread some of this info around, that people will say 'oh, i'm interested in this', like you did last night - and they wont necessarily be canonical people.
<mdz> I *think* that sabdfl's concerns had to do with information about the internal network infrastructure, but I'm not going to try to speak for him
<Hobbsee> he should be here, he should be able to speak for himself.  *g*
<sabdfl> there will always be some things we want to be uniquely good at, at canonical, that we consider company expertise
<Hobbsee> but i see your point, yes.  obviously small parts will be confidential
<sabdfl> and those things we keep internal to canonical
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> of course
<sabdfl> and there will always be folks wanting to see or participate in that
<mdz> Hobbsee: that particular documentation presumably only came up today during the release call, though the perception certainly predated that.  is there something else about that wiki which troubles you?
<sabdfl> so that point of friction is an inevitability
<sabdfl> same thing happens when a developer working on cool stuff says "i'll release htis when i'm ready"
<Hobbsee> mdz: the specs being moved to the wiki on the 4th, when UDS started on the 6th, was an absolute nightmare, community wise.
<sabdfl> increasingly there are also other companies working with ubuntu, and they don't disclose what they do even to canonical
<Hobbsee> the fact that you were doing it internally, when there was no great logical reason to, when most of the people there didnt work for canonical...is...odd.
<Hobbsee> at least, i think msot of the people there didnt work for canonical
<cjwatson> sabdfl: I'm not sure this is the right place, but I would like to investigate the possibility of documenting the broad outline publicly in order to be able to take advantage of points where we're currently pressed for effort on staff and there are community members want to help, even if many of the specifics are private
<mdz> Hobbsee: it was no better for Canonical; there are no secrets there.  we are always rushed to prepare for UDS after the release, and this was no exception.  I do intend to improve that process this time around
<imbrandon> right but how do we get rid of the "feeling" that there is a core-dev and canonical-core-dev
<sabdfl> cjwatson: sure, and i do trust your judgement
<Hobbsee> mdz: of course, if you're prepared to open it up, there are probably people who are interested in helping you, who like doing that kind of stuff.
<cjwatson> sabdfl: perhaps I can put something together and run it by you?
<Hobbsee> if you trust them.
<mdz> Hobbsee: it's not as if the UDS schedule was secret until then; it simply didn't exist yet
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: maybe expanding the release checklist to include bits we want to be sane for the milestones too?
<sabdfl> think of it this way - one of the things canonical brought to the distro world was hard release timing, and that's still a company competence
<Hobbsee> mdz: it somewhat existed.  i know, as i grilled Riddell over what was there.
<mdz> it required all of the specs to be registered in launchpad, prioritized, etc. before we could generate it
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: of course.  i understand that.
<sabdfl> so, we make a choice to do some of that work ourselves, to preserve the feeling that we're damn damn good at it
<Hobbsee> mdz: wouldnt it have been more helpful if people could have subscribed to all their spects early, so you could have run your autogenerator a bit earlier?
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: what do you consider the big challenges on the free software desktop?
<Hobbsee> ooh heck.
<Hobbsee> hmmm....
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: it was public from at least the 3rd, but we just hadn't had time to go through and register the specs; I think this is a matter of organisation rather than Canonical vs. Ubuntu, though I grant you the point that it would have been helpful to do it earlier
<mdz> Hobbsee: yes, it certainly would
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: bear in mind, i left on the 3rd.  and your third was my 4th.  timezones suck.
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: i understand your point, i'm not trying to grill you on it
<mdz> but I agree with Colin, "UDS could be better organized" isn't a Canonical vs. community issue
<mdz> I've been thinking of writing a document explaining in more detail the relationship between Canonical and Ubuntu
<mdz> so that it's easier to understand the role that we play and how to interact
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: actually getting it into schools, universites, etc, so people can play with it.
<mdz> Hobbsee: if a community member had volunteered to organize UDS, I would have welcomed them with open arms :-)
<sabdfl> from a -core-dev point of view, how can we help that process?
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: a couple of years ago, the only thing i knew about, open-source wise, was firefox.  and then it lead from there.
<Hobbsee> mdz: did you actually say that you would have welcomed input from them?  if the answer is no, then people would have expected that that was a canonical thing, so they couldnt do it.
<mdz> Hobbsee: and I'd like to fix that problem at its root, rather than explicitly saying "yes, you *can* do <most everything>"
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: i'm not sure, to be honest.  hmmm...i suspect edubuntu's going to be your key progress there, for all the new users.
<mdz> the assumption shouldn't be that you can't
<Hobbsee> mdz: true.  to us, you're a company, so we only expect to be able to do the things that you make public to us.
<Hobbsee> because we wouldnt be able to help out in a normal company like this
<Hobbsee> you guys are open, and it's great.  it's still surprising me, tbh.
<mdz> Hobbsee: but Canonical isn't Ubuntu.  Community members hold positions all over, including this very technical board
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: but it's an ubuntu event, not a canonical event, so people should feel empowered to help.
<Hobbsee> mdz: indeed.  perceptions vs reality.
<mdz> perhaps that's the root
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: sure, but canonical is organising it.
<Hobbsee> mdz: i'm convinced it is.  or at least one of them.
<sabdfl> i'd be happy to have an ubuntu-conf team
<sabdfl> that's a great idea, actually
<Mithrandir> so the question is, how can we drag more community people into helping organise it?
<mdz> Canonical created Ubuntu, but from the very beginning, it was established as a community project
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: by doing as you did in yesterday's meeting
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: s/drag/encourage/
<mdz> with its own governance and openings for participation all over
<Hobbsee> "who's interested in doing this?" - especially if you add that you dont ahve to be a canonical employee to do it
<mdz> Canonical does a lot of the heavy lifting, including most of the things that aren't as much fun as contributing at one's leisure :-)
<Hobbsee> mdz: of course, but we all understand that there's various private stuff involved, and so if it looks private, not to touch it.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: ok, so we should try to be more explicit about "this is going to happen in six months, if you want to help organise, tell us"?
<sabdfl> the next summit will be a good opportunity to do better on this front
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: exactly
<imbrandon> i think just the fact it is a company that started it you *have* to point somethings out explisitly
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: and we need help in ways x, y, z
<sabdfl> and now is a good time to discuss it, since we're just gearing up to arrange it
<Hobbsee> well, i wont be there.
<Hobbsee> unfortunately
<Hobbsee> unless something really big happens and the world explodes.
<mdz> which is why we go to such lengths to make it possible to at least stay informed and participate without attending UDS
<Hobbsee> but yes
<cjwatson> actually, it would be worth having somebody who isn't going to be there on the team to ensure that we think about other people who aren't
<cjwatson> although I realise that's less of an appealing prospect than helping with a conference you *will* be at
<Hobbsee> mdz: that has improved this time, i think.
<cjwatson> Hobbsee: at this point, what specific things have you needed to touch but been unable to due to not being in core-dev?
<Hobbsee> mdz: there was more of a perception of "ooh, i wonder what's on today", as opposed to a "oh, paris UDS is on.  so what.  we wont speak to any of those people for the week"
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: kde, mainly.  the seeds i havent looked into, only because i knew it was core dev
<mdz> Hobbsee:  so you stayed in touch with how the community perceived the event, even though you were in attendance?
<imbrandon> she touches alot of KDE main with us
<mdz> that is challenging
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: i'll probably need it for release management stuff, with the seeds and such.  although ti seems that a lot of permissions are only restricted to -dev now
<Hobbsee> mdz: sure.
<Hobbsee> mdz: i tend to be pretty good at reading people, and i was on irc for a lot of the conference.  particularly when i wasnt in multiple sessions at once.
<mdz> Hobbsee: I didn't even manage to read my email ;-)
<Hobbsee> mdz: yes, but you're mdz.
<Hobbsee> and one of the conference organisers
<Mithrandir> mdz: you were everywhere else, though
<Hobbsee> i mean, once the main kubuntu kde4 plan got decided, there wasnt so much kubuntu stuff for me to do
<mdz> Hobbsee: but there are always more things going on
<Hobbsee> of course
<Hobbsee> i'm not saying i didnt get involved with them - i was more meaning that i didnt have 10 billion sessions in a day to go to
<Hobbsee> which i did on teh first day.
<Hobbsee> 3 hours, 4 sessions, iirc, plus the original "welcome" etc ones
<mdz> we tried to have some sessions each day for groups which were represented the entire week
<Hobbsee> it worked well, it really did
<mdz> Keybuk,cjwatson and I got blisters from shuffling bits of paper
<Hobbsee> often we had mornings off, and the community ones were in the latter half of the day
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> again, i suspect more people would be happy to help, if they knew you'd accept it
<cjwatson> ( later in the week, it has been proven that people who don't get paid to get up in the morning have a lower rate of doing so ;-) )
<mdz> next time around, I'd like to do a proper call for topics, have a mailing list for people attending the conference, and generally be more organized about it
<Hobbsee> cjwatson: haha.  true that.
<cjwatson> (by Friday, I wouldn't have been up for 9 sharp had I not had to be ..)
* Hobbsee made it every single morning.  even if she brougth breakfast down with her!
<Hobbsee> :P
<mdz> Hobbsee: so you think I should send out a call saying we're looking for volunteers to help organize UDS?
<Hobbsee> mdz: yes.
<Hobbsee> stick it on the mailing list that you're going to create about UDS organisation.
<Hobbsee> they did that for ubucon.
<mdz> ubuntu-devel-summit
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I would rephrase that as "people who aren't at risk of not being paid" ;)
<mdz> ok, I'm out of time here
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: haha
<mdz> sabdfl seems to have fallen off the network and only just now reconnected
<mdz> Keybuk: any further questions for Hobbsee?
<sabdf1> hi, sorry, network issues
<sabdf1> from my side, +1 for Hobbsee on -core-dev, with thanks for a wonderful contribution to date and congrats on the speed at which she has made a big impact on an already-big project
<Keybuk> wifi signal is clearly weak in the "West Core" of Millbank
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: you havent suddenly moved to australia, have you?
<sabdf1> Hobbsee: spiritually, perhaps
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> at least my wifi's not disconnecting every 30 mins again
<Keybuk> my panel just crashed
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: shh, don't remind it.
<Keybuk> nm-applet seems to have caused it
<Keybuk> freaky
* Hobbsee wont curse $isp then
<Hobbsee> heh
<Keybuk> anyway, unreserved +1 from me#
<mdz> +1 from me, you've made sustained contributions of excellent quality and are clearly taking an interest in moving the project forward through activities beyond packaging
<Hobbsee> mdz: sabdf1: there are people who will offer you this kind of feedback, i suspect.  i'm one.  but only if you want it, and go asking for it.
<mdz> Hobbsee: congratulations and welcome
<Hobbsee> seeing as talking to busy people == bad, as it's disrupting them.
<Hobbsee> thankyou :D
<mdz> Keybuk: will you do the honors in LP and email?
<imbrandon> congrats Hobbsee :)
<mdz> I'm late
<Keybuk> yup
<sabdf1> Hobbsee: we specialise in being disrupted round here ;-)
<mdz> thanks
<sabdf1> disruptive, too, i hope!
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: true that.  but you're big and scary, as is mdz.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: woo, congrats!
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: i took a big chance in actually saying "i'm interested in RM" for eg, knowing that i wasnt employed by you.
<dholbach> congratulations Hobbsee!
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<seb128> Hobbsee: congrats ;)
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> hehe, here are all the lurkers :)
<sabdf1> Hobbsee: have confidence. you're smart and sane, and make a great contribution, you have a vote and you have credibility
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: :)
<Hobbsee> sabdf1: of course, where to put that feedback to is an interesting question
<sabdf1> thanks for being part of the project, and it's your project too
<Hobbsee> and which particular feedback you want, too
<Hobbsee> :)
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Congrats!
<Hobbsee> which reminds me, i need to whine at the CC :P
<sabdf1> Hobbsee: i want feedback on the things you care most about, though i hope you understand that i can't always act in the way you might want
<sabdf1> well done
* Hobbsee nods
<asac> Hobbsee: congratulations
* ogra hugs Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee hugs ogra 
<ogra> finally
<ogra> :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i was just going to never go for it again, you know...
<Hobbsee> once bitten, twice shy...
<ogra> heh
* Mithrandir is happy he pushed Hobbsee over the edge, then
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: maybe you didn't, but others wanted you to. :-P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yes....
<Hobbsee> they'll keep...
* Hobbsee sharpens the axe...
<ogra> Mithrandir, well done :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-02
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<AlexLatchford> @schedule London
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 05 Jun 20:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 16:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<bashelier> @schedule Paris
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-06-03
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 05 Jun 21:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Jun 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jun 17:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jun 14:00: Edubuntu | 14 Jun 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<DarkSun88> G'Night
<LiLLix_> hi
<DarkSun88> Hi all
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-26
<Syntux> @schedule
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 May 20:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team
<bimberi> @schedule sydney
<ubottu> bimberi: Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 28 May 06:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 16:00: Platform Team | 29 May 03:00: Launchpad users meeting | 29 May 07:00: Server Team | 29 May 11:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 23:00: Desktop Team
<Seeker`> @schedule london
<ubottu> Seeker`: Schedule for Europe/London: 27 May 21:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 07:00: Platform Team | 28 May 18:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 22:00: Server Team | 29 May 02:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 14:00: Desktop Team
<bimberi> C'mon Asia+Oceania Board, dragging the chain
<Syntux> @schedule
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 May 20:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-27
<xhhux> hello
<xhhux> hello is anyone here?
<Hobbsee> no
<xhhux> LIAR!
<Syntux> @schedule
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 May 20:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team
<leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
<ubottu> leoquant: Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 27 May 22:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 08:00: Platform Team | 28 May 19:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 23:00: Server Team | 29 May 03:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 15:00: Desktop Team
<Styx`> @schedule vilnius
<ubottu> Styx`: Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 27 May 23:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 09:00: Platform Team | 28 May 20:00: Launchpad users meeting | 29 May 00:00: Server Team | 29 May 04:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 16:00: Desktop Team
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubottu> zul: Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 May 16:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 02:00: Platform Team | 28 May 13:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 17:00: Server Team | 28 May 21:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 09:00: Desktop Team
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Schedule for America/Lima: 27 May 15:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 01:00: Platform Team | 28 May 12:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 16:00: Server Team | 28 May 20:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 08:00: Desktop Team
<Syntux> @schedule Amman
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Asia/Amman: 27 May 23:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 09:00: Platform Team | 28 May 20:00: Launchpad users meeting | 29 May 00:00: Server Team | 29 May 04:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 16:00: Desktop Team
<RoAkSoAx> Syntux, you'll have to wait few more hours, be patience :P
<Myrtti> â¥ christel
<dfiloni> @schedule rome
<ubottu> dfiloni: Schedule for Europe/Rome: 27 May 22:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 08:00: Platform Team | 28 May 19:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 23:00: Server Team | 29 May 03:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 15:00: Desktop Team
<Seveas> jenda, you can renew yourself, no need for approval :)
<ke|p> hi
<Myrtti> hello
<jpds> ke|p: ohh, here for membership?
<ke|p> yes
<pochu> hola ke|p :)
<ke|p> hola pochu
<ke|p> :D
<pochu> is there a list for people applying for membership anywhere?
<stgraber> pochu: sure
<jpds> pochu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<ke|p> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<ke|p> ups
<pochu> thanks :)
<stgraber> they were faster than me :) (I just had the time to start FF3)
<pochu> hey stgraber!
<stgraber> hi pochu
<stgraber> enjoyed Prague ?
<pochu> yeah, it was great :)
<dfiloni_> hi pochu :)
<Seveas> hamslaai, your wikipage is empty, please put some content on it
<pochu> uh, ~ubuntu-membership-board-emea, what a weird name ;)
<Seveas> pochu, why?
<afflux> any ideas when the next emea meeting will be held?
<Syntux> @schedule
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 May 20:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team
<Seveas> afflux, in about 100 minutes
<Seveas> @now
<ubottu> Seveas: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 27 2008, 18:21:36 - Next meeting: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board in 1 hour 38 minutes
<Myrtti> oooo
<afflux> Seveas: sorry, the one after that one ;)
<Myrtti> scary
<pochu> Seveas: because it's weird? :P I was hoping for ~ubuntu-europe or ~ubuntu-europe-council or similar...
<Seveas> pochu, it's more than europe, it's the emea region :)
<stgraber> pochu: we don't only cover europe so ...
<pochu> (and why is middle-east here and not in the asia one?)
<Myrtti> timezones
<pochu> then ~ubuntu-emea-council maybe? :)
<Seveas> pochu, fairly standard in the business world: americas, emea, australasia
<pochu> Myrtti: ah, makes sense
<pochu> Seveas: oh, really? It's the first time I hear that :) But I'm not in the business world so... ;)
<Seveas> Myrtti, what's scary?
<Myrtti> Seveas: that it's that little time anymore
<pochu> @now
<ubottu> pochu: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 27 2008, 18:23:16 - Next meeting: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board in 1 hour 36 minutes
<Seveas> pochu, hehe. I work for captain kirk :)
<hamslaai> seveas i did i will check
<stgraber> Seveas: btw, do we have a secretary for tonight's meeting ?
<Seveas> stgraber, I'll volunteer
<phanatic> Seveas: thank you :)
<Seveas> have already read all the wikipages (except hamslaai's ;))
<stgraber> Seveas: thanks, one problem solved :)
<afflux> .oO ( no ideas on the meeting after today's? )
<Seveas> Most candidates are really good. I have my doubts about a few
<awalton__> Seveas, hopefully not doubting me :(
<Seveas> afflux, that will be decided today
<pochu> Seveas: about jenda?
 * pochu runs :)
<ke|p> haha
<Seveas> pochu, yes. He should be shot for even bothering us with it. Just hit the extend membership button dammit ;)
<hamslaai> seveas: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HiltonGibson
<Syntux> hmm, once you ghost a nickname; nickserv shouldn't ask you to identify the same nickname again.
<afflux> ah I see... sorry, just a bit curious because I sort of missed today's
<Seveas> hamslaai, ah, then please fix the agenda wikipage to point there
<pochu> Seveas: heh, I guess he wants some meeting time... I'm waiting for expiration to come again ;)
<Seveas> awalton__, I don't see you on the agenda
<pochu> jenda: I've heard you came to the hotel... too bad I didn't know you were there :(
<hamslaai> seveas: ok i am used to mediawiki
<stgraber> Seveas: yep, same here ... some really good ones and some others that I'll really need to hear to get an opinion
<awalton__> Seveas, north america.. thought I added myself to the wiki last week
<Seveas> awalton__, ah, this is emea -- americas is later
<Seveas> @schedulw
<Seveas> @schedule
<ubottu> Seveas: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 27 May 20:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team
<Seveas> americas is in 2 days
<awalton__> Seveas, doh!
 * awalton__ can be a moron some days...
<Seveas> awalton__, :)
<Seveas> awalton__, so yeah, I'm having my doubts about you :-)
<hamslaai> seveas: i remember now. the link is on my launchpad profile
<awalton__> Seveas, hehe, yeah me too now
<Seveas> awalton__, what's your wikipage
<awalton__> Seveas, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Awalton. anything I can add there that might be helpful I'd like to know
<Seveas> awalton__, you're focusing on upstream achievements instead of ubuntu achievement
<Seveas> the councils are looking for (evidence of) a sustained and significant contribution to ubuntu. While upstream contributions are of course also ubuntu contributions, councils are looking for more direct contributions
<awalton__> just not sure really how to document my ubuntu work.. I've mostly just been triaging/forwarding bugs and helping in the forums..
<Seveas> kudos on gvfs though :)
<Seveas> link to your forum profile, explain what you do there, get forum staff to vouch for you
<Seveas> and do the same for other bugteam members
<Seveas> you have 2 days :)
<awalton__> alright, thanks a bunch
<hamslaai> seveas: agenda page link updated to point to wiki page for profile details.
<Seveas> hamslaai, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA still has the old link
<Myrtti> eeep
<Seveas> hamslaai, and tbh, that page is really thin on info. I don't think you'll be accepted for membership like that. Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kelp for instance to see what a wikipage should look like (the way contributions are presented, not the actual contributions)
<Myrtti> /me looks at Seveas (Ã¶_Ã¶)
<ke|p> :D
<Myrtti> pliz
<Seveas> Myrtti, yours is better than hamslaai's but if I didn't know you I'd ask for more
<Myrtti> /me goes to fiddle
<jpds> Seveas: ke|p++
<devfil> Seveas: and my page? please :D
<Syntux> are you spreading blesses on wiki pages?
<devfil> ?
<devfil> lol
<Seveas> devfil, I don't like lists of packages on peoples pages. They often make contributions look very small. One or two extra vouches from existing MOTU would have been better. Also, a cheer from the italian newsletter team would be nice
<Seveas> Syntux, well, people are asking for comments and I'm giving them :)
<Seveas> Let it be clear that I'm *not* commenting on contributions, just on the pages
<devfil> Seveas: ok
<Seveas> good wikipages make meetings go faster
<devfil> Seveas: I should remove lists of packages?
<Seveas> I've seen several wikipages, that make me give an instant +1
<Seveas> devfil, neh, leave them in there, but try to get those cheers
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Seveas> Myrtti, 'sup?
<hamslaai> seveas: ok, try the links now.
<Myrtti> Seveas: oh nothing, I guess
<Syntux> Seveas, thought you were giving Instruments of forgiveness. ;)
<Seveas> Syntux, neh, I've left the LART at work
<devfil> Seveas: Salvatore is from Newsletter, it is editing is cheer. Now I'm looking for other MOTU and at 20 I will have some other sponsors from other italian group (I hope)
<Syntux> heh :-)
<Seveas> devfil, excellent :)
<Myrtti> I honestly don't know what else to add.
<Myrtti> :-<
<Seveas> I'll add a cheer
<Myrtti> I'll go and whimper in my little corner with my guinea pig
<Syntux> Seveas, and mine?
<Seveas> Syntux, I always find it hard to judge people whose major contributions are advocacy
<Seveas> advocacy is very important but hard to measure
<Syntux> I agree, it's hard to measure it.
<Seveas> Syntux, with your wikipage as is (and with no further info), I'd say -1 to your application. I think having more testimonials is necessary if your main contribution is advocacy
<Seveas> I've seen you in the community for a long time, so I know a -1 isn't justified, but that wikipage does need a bit more info/testimonials imho
<Seveas> get testimonials from your locoteam members, link to your loco website/(forum?)
<Syntux> Seveas, I'm waiting for more people of that kind who can measure advocacy
<Syntux> Seveas, I didn't know I can get testimonials from loCo members, though it's exclusive to @ubuntu members so I didn't ask for any.
<Seveas> Syntux, neh, testimonials are just cheers from people who think you do good work. Testimonials from 'known' people will be valued higher by people who read them (at least that's what I do) but testimonials from others are good as well, especially if you're the first from your loco to become member
<hamslaai> seveas: wiki updated, see references heading.
<Syntux> Seveas, I see, well if it didn't work today I will hunt for testimonials for sure
<Seveas> hamslaai, I'm afraid that reference means nothing to the council -- it doesn't mention any ubuntu contributions
<Syntux> Seveas, from philosophical point of view; it's hard to measure technical efforts too; one of the main factor to consider is the time given and efforts regardless of the type of contribution.
<hamslaai> seveas: ok, no train smash, will keep on trucking. cheers
<Seveas> Syntux, very true, see also my comment about lists of packages I gave earlier
<Seveas> Syntux, that's why I personally always focus on testimonials from others. Thinks like karma, forum stats etc... are a nice check but testimonials from people I know usually weigh heavier
<Seveas> of course if I know a candidate (like Myrtti or Pici) I don't need references :)
<Myrtti> â¥
<Seveas> Myrtti, that doesn't mean I'll vote +1 :p
<Myrtti> :-P
<Syntux> heh
<Iulian> Is that a heart?
<Myrtti> no lollipops for you then, Seveas :-P
<Seveas> Myrtti, bribing me is a tad more expensive than that :p
<Seveas> Icecream!
<Syntux> By the way, who can vote ? only the council or any ubuntu member.
<Seveas> the emea council only
<Myrtti> chocolate-chocolate chip or something more fancypancy?
<Seveas> cookie dough!
<Myrtti> uuu
<Styx`> @now
<ubottu> Styx`: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 27 2008, 19:07:50 - Next meeting: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board in 52 minutes
<Myrtti> oh dear *shivers*
<Seveas> Myrtti, you're way down in the list. *if* we reach that part of the list it'll be almost two hours after the start :)
<awalton__> Myrtti, really that nervous? you can always try again :)
<Myrtti> /me bought fair trade instant coffee today
<Syntux> There is $500 re-take policy
<Myrtti> I've also got a kilo jar full of candies
<Syntux> on some exams :-)
<Seveas> exams schmexams
<Seveas> this 'exam' isn't what you know, it's about what you have done
<Seveas> so whether you pass or fail is already known :)
<Myrtti> "I've annoyed Seveas"
<Myrtti> /me runs
<Seveas> Myrtti, that's instant membership :)
 * stgraber wonders how many candidate we'll be able to hear during the 1h30 we have for the meeting
<Seveas> if we do one every 5 minutes, we can do 18
<Seveas> and I don't see us doing one every 5 minutes :)
<Mirv> hmmkay, a cheers section. if mvo, tjaalton or someone else I met at UDS or otherwise knows me, please add your cheers to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimoJyrinki
<stgraber> me neither
<Mirv> (if someone is awake, that is)
<ogra> yeah 3 are plenty
<ogra> :P
<Seveas> ogra, for some people yes, some wikipages are good enough
<Mirv> Myrtti: can we cheer each other?-) no?
<Seveas> Mirv, why not?
<ogra> yeah that exposes good team spirit :)
<Seveas> do we only have 90 minutes?
<stgraber> that's what's on the fridge at least
<stgraber> and I won't be able to stay much longer anyway
<Syntux> @schedule Amman
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Asia/Amman: 27 May 23:00: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 09:00: Platform Team | 28 May 20:00: Launchpad users meeting | 29 May 00:00: Server Team | 29 May 04:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 16:00: Desktop Team
<Myrtti> Mirv: I gave jussi01 and Tm_T a permission to kick me in the leg if I even whince when you're up :-D
<Seveas> we'll need to rush then. I do like the idea of having a 5-minute timelimit though :)
<Myrtti> but if it's ok...
<Myrtti> since _Seveas_ said it's ok...
<stgraber> Seveas: would be fun (the 5-minute timelimit) but probably not fair for non-native (or like-native) speakers :)
<Myrtti> Mirv: shame on you for having such a fancypancy wikipage
<Seveas> stgraber, true
<Seveas> Myrtti, well Mirv is obviously way better than you
<Mirv> Myrtti: hehe. I tried to figure out what I've actually been doing and summarize it.
<Myrtti> Seveas: I know
<Myrtti> Seveas: he should
<Myrtti> /me curtzies
<Myrtti> do signatures work like they do in MediaWiki?
<Myrtti> I've been on wikivacation for such a long time I didn't even remember how bold was done
<evalles_> @now
<ubottu> evalles_: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 27 2008, 19:29:34 - Next meeting: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board in 30 minutes
<Myrtti> had to cheat and look from the Formatting guide
<ke|p> Myrtti, I think ["nick"] is enought
<Myrtti> oh doodles.
<Myrtti> ok
<Myrtti> hm, my virtual server's time must be wrong...
<Myrtti> oh, right. seconds...
<ke|p> hi effie_jayx :D
<quadrispro> hi totopalma
<totopalma> quadrispro, hi :)
<devfil> hi totopalma, quadrispro :)
<quadrispro> totopalma: hw r u?
<quadrispro> hi devfil :D
<totopalma> devfil, olÃ 
<totopalma> quadrispro, bho
<RicardoPerez> ke|p: natacha?
<quadrispro> totopalma: ...
<totopalma> :D
<ke|p> yeahh
<ke|p> hi RicardoPerez
<quadrispro> hi all
<RicardoPerez> ke|p: hi!
<ke|p> :)
<quadrispro> devfil: are you improved with hold'em?
<mantiena> hi all
<Myrtti> hullo
<quadrispro> devfil: ti ho chiesto se sei migliorato a poker...
<Seveas> hi mantiena
<quadrispro> mah!
<Seveas> Hi all! The EMEA regional membership board meeting will start soon. All candidates, please open a text editor and write a 3-line intro about yourself to paste when it's your turn.
<mantiena> ok
<devfil> quadrispro: lol NO,
<quadrispro> totopalma, are yuo able to play hold'em?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<Myrtti> /me considers starting an editor war to keep the anxiety at bay
<Myrtti> :->
<Seveas> Myrtti, vimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvimvim
<mantiena> Seveas: could I just paste some text from my wiki ?;)
<Seveas> mantiena, if it's a nice intro, sure
<Myrtti> Seveas: only if you promise to teach me vim while sitting next to me ;-) otherwise emacs.
<Myrtti> :->
<ke|p> only 3 lines? haha
<Seveas> Myrtti, sure :)
<Seeker`> wow, itsa Seveas
<Seveas> Myrtti, come to Amsterdam and I'll happily teach you vim
<quadrispro> hi Gwaihir
<Gwaihir> hello quadrispro
<quadrispro> Gwaihir: hw r u this evening?
<Myrtti> /me considers to whine to Mirv about "can I go see Seveas in Amsterdam" but then realizes this isn't the right place or time
<devfil> hello Gwaihir
<Seeker`> Seveas: how are you doing?
<Seveas> popey, stgraber, phanatic, PriceChild: here?
<PriceChild> I'm here
<stgraber> yep
<phanatic> yep
<Seveas> Matt is matthelmke on irc, right?
<PriceChild> Few more expected no?
<PriceChild> nope
<Seveas> ah
<popey> moo
<PriceChild> forumsmatthew i think
<Seveas> launchpad agrees
<PriceChild> btw the cc will do the launchpad additions after our little report to them
<Seveas> PriceChild, ah, we don't do that ourselves?
<PriceChild> sabdfl said that will be delegated to us in a little
<Seveas> hi forumsmatthew
<Mirv> 3 lines ie. 240 chars, ok.
<forumsmatthew> hello
<forumsmatthew> did I make it on time?
<popey> yes
<forumsmatthew> woo hoo!
<stgraber> #
<stgraber> Report successful membership candidates to the UbuntuWeeklyNews and add a short summary for each member (which should be taken from the candidate's personal wikipage).
<PriceChild> I thought I would check it with them just in case
<stgraber> #
<stgraber> Between May and July 2008, board secretaries are also responsible for reporting approved candidates to the CommunityCouncil, to evaluate the approval system.
<PriceChild> what stgraber said... 8-)
<stgraber> PriceChild: so according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards, the secretary is supposed to approve on LP + report to the CC
<Seveas> Hi all! The EMEA regional membership board meeting will start soon. All candidates, please open a text editor and write a 3-line intro about yourself to paste when it's your turn.
<quadrispro> devfil: are you ready?
<Seveas> 6/7 of the board is here. Did mark say he couldn't make it?
<PriceChild> stgraber: I tried to get in touch with the cc, making sure they were aware of the meeting so that they could attend if needed, and sabdfl said what I've said above today.
<PriceChild> He sent me a mail saying he might be able to catch the end iirc.
<Seveas> @now
<ubottu> Seveas: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 27 2008, 20:01:48 - Current meeting: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<Seveas> shall we start?
<jussi01> yep
<stgraber> PriceChild: ok, wiki should be updated then ...
 * PriceChild thinks Seveas is volunteering for secretary this week
<Seveas> PriceChild, yup
<PriceChild> Wow that was easy :D
<forumsmatthew> ready here to start
<forumsmatthew> Thanks, Seveas
<Seveas> Hi all! Welcome to the EMEA regional membership board meeting. All candidates, please open a text editor and write a 3-line intro about yourself.
<Seveas> We will try and process as many applications as we can, but we cannot guarantee that we will porcess all candidates. I will call your nickname when it's your turn.
<Seveas> Good luck all member candidates, nand: you're up first!
<nand> hi!
<nand> Ok, here is my small presentation:
<nand> My name is Nicolas Deschildre, I'm 22, and I'm finishing my computer studies by working in a small Linux company
<nand> making simplified computers for elderly people. Oh, and I also happen to be an Ubuntu fan!
<nand> So far, my contributions have been a package uploaded to Universe and the implementation of Ubuntu Brainstorm
<nand> (with the great help of stgraber for testing, administrating, sysadmin-pinging,...).
<nand> My plans for the future are mainly around Brainstorm: while some points are quite good, Brainstorm still need some work on several areas.
<nand> That's the shorter I could do :)
<Seveas> how did the brainstorm sessions at UDS go?
<nand> I was only at the one during FOSScamp
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicolasDeschildre
<Seveas> what's the opinion of Ubuntu developers on Brainstorm?
<Seveas> 'firehose' or 'source of terrific ideas' or somewhere in between?
<nand> well, they basically want some triaging :)
<Seveas> can't say that's unnecessary :)
<nand> at the moment, it is not easy to cherry pick the really good ones
<jcastro> I still have to throw up the brainstorm gobby notes someplace
<nand> and also there will be some work necessary so that upstream people can easily access their ideas
<stgraber> jcastro: from UDS or FOSSCamp ?
<nand> since 90% of ideas concerns directly upstream!
<Seveas> nand, that's a useful statistic by itself
<nand> Seveas: That's just a rough estimate
<nand> but a good majority do concerns upstream
<Seveas> I'm leaning towards a +1. Anyone want to convince me otherwise?
<PriceChild> nand: where do you see the brainstorm in 6 months time?
<phanatic> +1 from me as well. great job done with brainstorm.
<jcastro> stgraber: from both actually, the uds sessions were just a repeat of what we discussed basically.
<forumsmatthew> I see a lot of positives and nothing negative to comment on... I"m +1
<l3on> Ciao / Hi all!
<stgraber> +1 from me too
<stgraber> jcastro: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/FossCamp/Brainstorm (That's FOSSCamp)
<lukehasnoname> Forgive my ignorance, and IE isn't rendering the Fridge at work. What are we voting on? Briefly, I understand you are in a meeting.
<popey> for the good work nand has done getting the community involved in brainstorm, +1 from me
<nand> PriceChild: in 6 months, there will be some more features to categorize ideas (by project, tags), and a project-neutral release
<popey> lukehasnoname: member applications
<Seeker`> lukehasnoname: people becoming ubuntu members. It is only members of the board that vote
<PriceChild> cool, that last bit sounds fun :P
<lukehasnoname> For the EMEA region?
<Seveas> PriceChild, +1/0/-1?
<Seveas> lukehasnoname, yes
<PriceChild> Sounds good to me, +1.
<lukehasnoname> 10-4, back to observation
<Seveas> That's 6 +'es, congratulations!
<nand> great \o/
<Seveas> corenominal, you're up!
<popey> well done nand
<corenominal> Hello everyone :) Sorry for the waffle, here goes...
<corenominal> Hello everyone :) My name is Philip Newborough: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilipNewborough  I am 33 years old and I live in Lincoln, United Kingdom. I am now a member of the Ubuntu UK LoCo team. I started writing about my Ubuntu related activities on my blog http://crunchbang.org and I have been actively promoting the use of Ubuntu via online marketing campaigns, "A Merry Ubuntu Christmas"  http://tinyurl.com/5pf2yg & "Random Ubuntu Advocacy" h
<corenominal> ttp://tinyurl.com/2m8o2h
<corenominal> I have also released a remastered version of Ubuntu named CrunchBang Linux  http://crunchbang.org/projects/linux/  The distribution is based around the Openbox window manager and ROX file manager. I hope that by releasing the distro I have encouraged more people to experiment with Ubuntu and alternative software available in the Ubuntu repositories...
<corenominal> I believe I have much to offer the Ubuntu community. I think my biggest opportunity lies in online marketing and promotion. I have several projects which I would like to begin and I think that becoming an Ubuntu member would enable me maximise my contributions by providing a launchpad for future marketing/promotion efforts.
<Seveas> (If I appear to be rushing: I am, we have lots of candidates :))
<corenominal> :D
<popey> i am aware of Phils work, so he gets a +1 from me
<corenominal> thanks popey :)
<forumsmatthew> I've been reading about CrunchBang... I'm +1
<PriceChild> Where do I know crunchbang from?
<popey> PriceChild: syndicated on planet ubuntu-uk
<Seveas> Most of the wikipage is about crunchbang and ppa, not about contribs to ubuntu -- or am I reading it wrong?
<forumsmatthew> PriceChild, perhaps from the beginning of all shell scripts?
<corenominal> Seveas, you're reading it wrong :P
<forumsmatthew> #!/bin/bash
<Seveas> corenominal, then explain :)
<corenominal> sure, might help if you could ask questions, but hey, maybe you are right, I guess it depends on what/how you evaluate contributions
<PriceChild> Most of your launchpad karma comes from answers? How're all the bugsquad/universe contributors things going? :)
<Seveas> corenominal, are the things you've put in your PPA integrated with Ubuntu or are there plans to do so?
<corenominal> yes, I've just recently been working with a Debian developer to move some of my package from PPA directly to Debian
<corenominal> and from Debian to Ubuntu
<Seveas> and are you planning to make crunchbang an official ubuntu derivative like xubuntu?
<Seveas> kudos for taking the debian route!
<corenominal> well, I'm currently working towards building meta packages for CrunchBang
<corenominal> but..
<corenominal> as for official, I can't really say, something I'd need to look into
<corenominal> but it would be nice
<Seveas> sounds good
<Seveas> +1 from me
<Seveas> stgraber, phanatic PriceChild ?
<corenominal> it has had lots of good feedback, so I guess there is a need somewhere
<Seveas> corenominal, I'm definitely going to try it -- a nice working openbox environment would be nice to have
<stgraber> +1 for packaging and all the distro work
<corenominal> good luck :D take heed of the disclaimer ;)
<popey> heh
<Seveas> corenominal, scratch hardware needs no disclaimer
<phanatic> i'm convinced. +1 (and +0.5 for taking the debian route :))
<Seveas> good thing about working where I do: an abundance of spare laptops
<corenominal> lol
<popey> "spare" :)
<Seeker`> Seveas: how spare? :P
<stgraber> corenominal: are you in touch with MOTUs, do you plan to become one ?
<corenominal> yeah, working with madduck has been quite an eye opener
<Seveas> popey, I'd call that flase quoting
<Seveas> PriceChild, still awake?
<PriceChild> I am indeedy, just investigating.
<Seveas> PriceChild, k
<Seveas> I hoped everybody had read the wikipages in advance -- that helps :)
<corenominal> I have toyed with MOTU and REVU, but need more time, it's a slow process as I don't always get the time I'd like to work on packaging
<PriceChild> I'm evil and am going to give a 0 atm I'm afraid.
<popey> not evil PriceChild
<corenominal> but I enjoy it, it's fun and lots to learn
<Seveas> PriceChild, not evil at all, everyone can have his opinion
<corenominal> np PriceChild
<corenominal> :)
<Seveas> would you care to elaborate a bit?
<PriceChild> I want to see that ppa going somewhere, and packages turning up in ubuntu or debian, do you have any urls for their progress in debian?
<PriceChild> but i guess membership based on those should be through the universe contributors, ignore me about that bit
<corenominal> sorry, no. Only private emails.
<Seveas> ok, so that's 6+ and one 0
<Seveas> you still made it, so congratulations :)
<Seveas> Syntux, you're up!
 * Syntux blood pressure 100+
<Syntux> well, Nothing fancy other than my own cynical introduction :d
<Syntux> A 28 years old Middle Eastern Linux extremist with a B.A in political science and law. Iâm addicted to programming by decision so Iâm not looking for a rehab. I do blog and Photograph and in my free time, Iâm just a human. Started using Ubuntu since the release of Warty Warthog, Ubuntu solved many of my problems so I'm devoting time to contribute to the community. To me FLOSS is way of living rather than anything else.
<Syntux> Sorry but It happens that I'm a linux extremist and a Middle Eastern ;)
<corenominal> thank you everyone :)
<Syntux> oh one more thing, currently I'm preparing for UCP exam (scheduled in June) and my main contribution is advocacy and training. (reported around 15 bug on UCP material; happens to be by email since there is no LP for it.) and working on getting a Local mirror of Ubuntu with the National Information Center (the backbone!), helping some computer stores in understand what ubuntu is all about and maybe helping them in getting their hardware certified.
<forumsmatthew> Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ
<forumsmatthew> :)
<Syntux> UCP bugs were sent to Yanick, Billy and Torsten.
<Syntux> forumsmatthew, Ù Ø¹ÙÙÙÙ Ø§ÙØ³ÙØ§Ù :-)
<Seveas> I'm going on a -1 for Syntux I'm afraid. I know he's been active but his wikipage shows very little "evidence" of that. I'd like the to be expanded a bit more, with more testimonials and links to achievements. I'm pretty confident Syntux will be a good member but we need to be able to show why we think that
<Seveas> (see also the chat I had with Syntux before the meeting)
 * Syntux pressuretool | grep Thermal -> not ok 90 c
<PriceChild> Are there any cheerers from your LoCo here?
<Syntux> Seveas, I got one more testimonial minutes ago.
<forumsmatthew> I do see that Syntux is a leader in the Jordon LoCo. Could you elaborate on that a bit? What has the LoCo done, how many members, etc.?
<Syntux> forumsmatthew, we have around 10 active members and by members here I mean active and contributers to the team
<Syntux> our approval application can tell more https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanTeam/ApprovalApplication
<popey> this session is more about you than the loco to be fair
<Syntux> popey, I do understand that but I was answering forumsmatthew question.
<forumsmatthew> On your Launchpad page you list involvement with translation into Arabic. What specifically have you translated (if anything so far)?
<popey> yeah, i just didn't want us to go down that road
<Syntux> forumsmatthew, not a single full application but bits in many applications.
<Syntux> namely gnome-session phatch update-manager pidgin schooltool yelp
<Seveas> translation karma is 103
<Syntux> beagle, gmount-iso, dpkg, gaim (that's old), , vlc, netapplet
<PriceChild> Lots more karma on answers.
<Seveas> yup
<Syntux> yeah
 * Syntux tick tok tick tok tick tok
<popey> i see only 15 answers on your page or am I missing something?
<popey> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/~jad/
<Seveas> hmm
<Syntux> popey, you are right.
<Seveas> so answers give lots of karma
<Seveas> interesting
<popey> it does
<Syntux> Seveas, only if it's answered in the same day of question.
<stgraber> popey: you probably only see the one in english ?
<Syntux> stgraber, I did not answer any in Arabic; actually I didn't see any question in arabic.
<stgraber> ok
<forumsmatthew> I like what I see. I'm not sure I see enough of it yet to make me comfortable bestowing membership.
<forumsmatthew> The future looks good, though
<Seveas> can we please see votes? there are lots of candidates still waiting
<PriceChild> I think I'm going to echo Seveas above with a -1.
<popey> -1
<phanatic> it'll be a 0 from me
<forumsmatthew> -1 for now. Please continue on the current path and reapply later
<forumsmatthew> I would love to give a plus one in the future
<stgraber> For me as Seveas said the wiki page gives me no evidence of the work Syntux did and don't get me wrong, I'm sure Syntux did a lot of work. So I'm giving -1 for the moment and wait for him to come back soon.
<Seveas> ok, all votes are counted. Syntux I'm sorry but you'll have to try again later. I can work with you on that wikipage if you want
<Seveas> Mirv, you're up
<Mirv> I'm Timo Jyrinki, 29, M.Sc in tech, a FLOSS enthusiast & the founder and team contact for Ubuntu Finland. Soon to be Debian Developer (AM approved). Contributed among else i18n bug fixes, translations, integration of my 5 debian packages (Finnish spellchecking) to ubuntu main and part of official Ubuntu's Finnish support, done a lot (fi-site/wiki/forums, press releases, CD spreading, ...) to spread Ubuntu in Finland and help users.
<Syntux> it's ok. Thank you guys.
<Mirv> I'm also press contact for fi-wikipedia which has gotten mainstream media coverage about everywhere around here -> trying to also mention the freedom aspect of it and free software. Founded vapaasuomi.fi (libre Finland) which covers both free software and content.
<Mirv> Met many people at UDS-Intrepid. Done a lot of LP bug report handling/cleaning, investigating whatever interests me. I18N fixes lately include reporting/organizing fixing of some very visible ones in our installer (8.04 is good, 8.04.1 is going to be perfect!), providing i18n-fixed bzr branches or PPA packages of eg. hwtest (whole UI), brasero (menu item), nm-applet (nm-editor whole UI), policykit-gnome (whole UI). All fixed in hardy.
<Mirv> </div>
<Mirv> so there goes
<Seveas> having read the wikipage and related things in advance: +1
<Seveas> go finland!
<stgraber> oh, I remember where I saw Mirv before :) Canonical sysadmins channel :)
<forumsmatthew> I've been reading on this one as well. +1
<PriceChild> How was UDS, what are your goals for Intrepid?
<phanatic> same here, really impressive work. +1
<stgraber> +1 from me too
<Mirv> PriceChild: UDS was great to meet people I've only met on IRC. Goals for Intrepid, hmm, NMUing new gnome-spell in Debian with enchant support and syncing it to Ubuntu, trying to help mozvoikko to get in in time, improving translations
<stgraber> Mirv: you were only at UDS, not FOSSCamp ?
<Mirv> hopefully helping somehow with X/Mesa/DRI stuff now that I've new Intel hw
<Mirv> stgraber: I came only in Sunday evening, so only UDS indeed
<PriceChild> Sounds great to me and I'll +1 too.
<popey> wow, lots of translations
<phanatic> Mirv: huge thanks for the gnome-spell/enchant stuff!
<popey> +1
<Seveas> nice, quick one!
<Seveas> congratulations Mirv
<Myrtti> /me cheers
<Seveas> Iulian, you're up
<Mirv> well, thanks a lot everyone! :)
<Iulian> Hello! My name is Iulian Udrea and I'm sixteen year old. I started using Ubuntu a couple of years ago. To be honest I was really fascinated. I like to develop small open-source software and play chess. My favorite programming language is C/C++. I love to work in a team with talented guys and I also like to share my knowledge with others.
<Iulian> I'm a QA member and I am spending most of my time with the BugSquad team. One of my interests is to keep the Brainstorm site in shape (Ubuntu Developer role). I also like to work with the MOTUs, currently member of the MOTU Science team.
 * RainCT is here to speak in favour of Iulian - he is doing great work on the MOTU front
<Iulian> My future plans are: keep working with the MOTU, BugSquad and Brainstorm team.
<Iulian> Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IulianUdrea
<Iulian> LP page: https://edge.launchpad.net/~iulian
<jpds> Iulian is a talented guy and has made great work helping out in the MOTU. I fully support his membership and would very much like to see him as a MOTU in the future.
<nand> I'd like to support Iulian with the following SQL query:
<nand> dump080510=> SELECT COUNT(*) FROM qapoll_choice_duplicate_report WHERE moderatorid='430';
<nand>  count
<nand> -------
<nand>    522
<Seveas> nand, was about to ask for something like that
<popey> haha
<Iulian> I didn't know that, nand. Thanks for letting me know. :)
<stgraber> +1 for Iulian, amazing triaging/QA work and on Brainstorm too
<nand> (meaning he processed 522 duplicate reports in brainstorm ;) )
<stgraber> and that's an old dump :)
<PriceChild> Iulian: How come you aren't going for membership through Ubuntu Contributing Developers? ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev )
<jussi01> o_0
<Seveas> I had my doubts after reading wikipages
<Seveas> but see what testimonials do, +1 from me :)
<forumsmatthew> +1
<phanatic> +1
<Iulian> PriceChild: Good question. I don't really know what to answer. Maybe I will later.
<Iulian> Or be sure that I will. :)
<popey> +1
<Seveas> PriceChild, I don't think it's the road that counts, it's the goal :)
<Iulian> Seveas: Exactly. I'm planning this for the future.
<Seveas> Iulian, well, if you continue on the current path, I'd like to see that future :)
<PriceChild> Nice support from RainCT.
<Iulian> Seveas: Sure.
<PriceChild> Iulian: Go get MOTU!! :) I'll +1.
<RainCT> :)
<Iulian> PriceChild: Hehe, thanks a lot.
<Seveas> ok, 6+'es
<Seveas> congrats Iulian!
<Seveas> RicardoPerez, you're up
<Iulian> Awesome, thank you all.
<RicardoPerez> Hi everybody! First of all, sorry about my horrible English :)
<RainCT> Iulian: congrats!
<RicardoPerez> I'm Ricardo PÃ©rez. I'm 33, and I teach computer scientist (using Ubuntu ;)) in a High School at Spain.
<RicardoPerez> I'm the "Ubuntu Spanish Translators" team administrator https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-es , and a Spanish translator via Launchpad. As administrator, my job is, basically, to approve/decline new membership requests for the team, using the criteria published in the team wiki page, and coordinate the members using mailing lists and Launchpad polls.
<RicardoPerez> As translator, our job is to translate Ubuntu into the Spanish language. The Spanish is on the top of the translated languages in Ubuntu (obviously it's not thanks only to me, of course :)
<RicardoPerez> I'm doing translation works since 2005, and I do send bugreports about translation problems regularly. I'm a member of the "Launchpad Beta Testers" team, too.
<RicardoPerez> You can see my Launchpad profile https://launchpad.net/~ricardo and my wiki page
<RicardoPerez> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoPerezLopez for more information :)
<Seveas> I'm a bit out of touch with karma. Is 5003 a lot for translations?
<forumsmatthew> no hay nada problema, vuestro ingles es muy bien
<ke|p> xDD
<RicardoPerez> Seveas: yes, it's right :)
<RicardoPerez> Seveas: I do a LOT of translations :)
 * Flare183 says wow
<Seveas> RicardoPerez, as I can see
<Seveas> based on that alone, +1
<phanatic> indeed, +1
<Seveas> adding the rest: +1.5 :)
<popey> +1
<forumsmatthew> un grande +1
<PriceChild> RicardoPerez: What have you helped organise with the LoCo, apart from memberships?
<RicardoPerez> PriceChild: really, I don't do any LoCo organisation at all, I'm only on translations and i18n
<RicardoPerez> PriceChild: LoCo is Spanish team, and translations is Ubuntu Spanish Translators team :)
<stgraber> Managing a translation team is certainly not something easy, +1 for that
<beuno> RicardoPerez, is THE top contributor to Spanish translations, in every way possible
<PriceChild> My mistake, got confused for a second there :)
<Seveas> stgraber -- king of the understatements
<beuno> I quite admire his work
<RicardoPerez> beuno: thanks a lot :)
<effie_jayx> I second beuno  on his coment
<beuno> (sorry if I dropped in randomly, I just saw this and though I'd weigh in)
<Seveas> PriceChild, +1/0/-1?
<PriceChild> +!
<PriceChild> +1 even
<Seveas> excellent
<Seveas> passed with flying colors, congrats!
<Seveas> fdd, you're up
<RicardoPerez> wow!!!!!!! thanks a lot!!!
<RicardoPerez> gracias! :)
<fdd> Hello.
<fdd> ## My name is IonuÈ Jula, 18, and I'm a CS student trying to bring to FOSS ideology into my country (Romania).
<fdd> ## Actions through (Romanian) Free Sofware Group (softwareliber.ro).
<fdd> ## Free and Open Source philosophy is a life style for me.
 * beuno wonders how it is RicardoPerez wasn't a member already
<beuno> RicardoPerez, congrats, long overdue
<RicardoPerez> beuno: thanks again :) thanks again!
<ke|p> RicardoPerez, felicidades :)
<Seveas> hmm, translation karma 9874
<RicardoPerez> ke|p: thank you very much :)
<Seveas> I seriously need to know what's "good translation karma" "better karma" and "insane karma"
 * stgraber too
<Seveas> fdd, since when are you translating things and how much time per week do you think you're spending on it
<PriceChild> Seveas: I think perhaps going to the translations page, it says for example 364 results here
<Seveas> ah
<fdd> since I joined LP.
<PriceChild> ricardo had 1448, yet less karma?
<PriceChild> how confusing
<phanatic> PriceChild: i wouldn't make any decisions based on karma. it doesn't help too much to determine real activity unfortunately.
<Seveas> I would like to see some testimonials from other .ro people
<fdd> it depends. really.
<popey> PriceChild: it decays over time
<PriceChild> ahh
<beuno> PriceChild, RicardoPerez does a lot of work with the team itself, and seems to work on the hardest strings in general
<beuno> which is hard to see reflected in LP currently  :)
<fdd> we are a team too.
<Seveas> PriceChild, karma decays, RicardoPerez has been contributing for over 2 years, fdd for less than 9 months
<fdd> beuno, yes, it does.
<Seveas> I'm going for 0 -- fdd's main contribution is translations. I can't read romanian so I can't judge those, I'd like to see some testimonials from other romanian translators
<fdd> I understand, Seveas.
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to agree with Seveas here. I like the idea, but I am unable to adequately judge the quality of the contributions...for now, 0
<stgraber> I'll follow Seveas on this one, more testimonials would be great and the wiki page might need updating too
<lukehasnoname> What is a passing vote, out of 7?
<phanatic> 0 from me as well. it would be great, if you could bring along some people from your loco
<fdd> I focused on translating.
<Seveas> lukehasnoname, majority of present members (that's what the CC does now)
<lukehasnoname> k
<forumsmatthew> fdd, if you had some people here to speak on your behalf, I could be swayed
<popey> ditto, 0 here
<fdd> that's true, but... you know.
<PriceChild> I'm going to abstain with a 0 too.
<Seveas> that's 6 times 0. fdd, please get those testimonials sorted out and I'm convinced they'll quickly turn into 6 +1's
<Seveas> volans isn't here so mantiena is up
<fdd> of course. cheers!
<mantiena> hi all
<mantiena> My name is Mantas KriauÄiÅ«nas, I'm 31 age, Debian user since 1999, Ubuntu user (and non-official developer) since 2004.
<mantiena> I'm creator and main developer of Baltix GNU/Linux distribution (Ubuntu derivative), active translator of free software, also board Member of non-profit public organization "Open Source for Lithuania". I'm a full-time free software worker since 2003 ;)
<mantiena> For contributions to Ubuntu and other info look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MantasKriauÄiÅ«nas
<Myrtti> ooh
<Seveas> I'm of two minds
<PriceChild> Lots of Baltix on launchpad :/
<mantiena> ;)
<Seveas> yes, that makes it hard to judge *ubuntu* contributions
<Seveas> mantiena, how much time do you spend on improving ubuntu, compared to the time spent working on baltix
<mantiena> Seveas: it's launchpad fault, not my ;)
<Seveas> mantiena, very true :)
<sirex`> Seveas: see my comment on mantiena's wiki
<PriceChild> Testemonials are also about baltix
<PriceChild> testimonials even
<Seveas> well, pitti saying nice things does sway my opinion a bit
<PriceChild> but a mr pitt did leave a comment
<popey> indeed
<mantiena> Seveas: I'm not dividing time for Baltix or Ubuntu - I'm improving Ubuntu, but my improvements firstly are included into Baltix, because I'm not official Ubuntu developer, evet not MOTU
<Seveas> mantiena, why not become motu then?
<popey> mantiena: whats the status of live-installer?
<phanatic> mantiena: are you planning to become a MOTU?
<mantiena> popey: live-installer is suspended since 2007, because ubiquity is fully debconf-based
<popey> ah, I see
<mantiena> phanatic: right, I'm planing to become a MOTU
<PriceChild> I think when providing lots of evidence about motuish things, ubuntu universe contributors should be the way to go for membership?
<Seveas> PriceChild, I'm going to agree with that
<Seveas> they can judge that better
<forumsmatthew> shall I call the question?
<forumsmatthew> what say we?
<Seveas> That makes it a 0 from me, I think mantiena would be a good member but I'd rather see him take the motu route
<forumsmatthew> I'm voting 0 for the same reason.. Seveas types faster than me, I think
<phanatic> 0 for the same reason
<phanatic> ah :)
<mantiena> Seveas , forumsmatthew, phanatic : then there are one problem for Lithuanian LoCo team
<Seveas> mantiena, which problem and why?
<forumsmatthew> what is that?
<mantiena> we can't have official LoCo team, because there are no U
<mantiena> Ubuntu member in Lithuania
<PriceChild> -1 from me, would like to see you get recognised by getting these improvements from baltix into ubuntu
<Seveas> is that really a requirement?
<Seveas> I think we have several official teams that don't include ubuntu members but I could be wrong
<Seveas> stgraber, popey: what's your verdict?
<sirex`> Seveas: LoCo team must have contact person, who must be a ubuntu member.
<mantiena> AFAIK LoCo team should have a contact person, who is an Ubuntu member
<stgraber> 0 from me
<PriceChild> Seveas: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved infers it needs ubuntu members
<Seveas> PriceChild, sirex` thanks
<popey> 0
<Seveas> mantiena, people can become members by doing loco work and translations as well. If you think other people in the loco qualify for those reasons, they should apply for membership
<Seveas> we think your application is better judged by the MOTU, so please try to go that route yourself
<RainCT> the Catalan LoCo Team got official without any Ubuntu Member
<Seveas> Styx`, you're up next
<Styx`> Hi, my name is Tomas Å½eimys, I'm 25 years old and live in Vilnius, Lithuania. Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tomas%C5%BDeimys
<Styx`> My main interests are Ubuntu advocacy and local community management. 3 years ago I've started a website (www.ubuntu.lt) that now holds over 2000 members from Lithuania. Actively involved in organizing local meetings, various events and conferences. Currently I'm working on web based social network utility for OSS users in Lithuania, launching charity project (reuse of old computers that will be powered by (x)ubuntu) and preparing a
<Styx`>  plan for "Ubucon Baltic" (2-3 days event related to Ubuntu and other OSS for people from Baltic region). Main target - to fix Bug #1 at least in Lithuania :)
<RainCT> (that was some time ago, though)
<pochu> RainCT: same for ubuntu-es (the Spanish Speaking, not the LoCo team from Spain), but indeed it was ages ago
<mantiena> Seveas: ok, I will try MOTU way
<jpds> pochu: ..until now
<Seveas> Styx`, can you translate "Viso Å¾inuÄiÅ³ / temÅ³" to english for me?
<lukehasnoname> @now
<ubottu> lukehasnoname: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 27 2008, 21:18:52 - Current meeting: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<Styx`> Seveas, Total posts / topics
<Seveas> and "pradedantiesiems"
<DzHiBaS> For begginers
<Styx`> Seveas, for beginners
<Seveas> ah, that's why it has most posts :)
<sirex`> Seveas: I and mantiena know him, and he is really from Lithuania.. :)
<Seveas> sirex`, hehe
<mantiena> yea
<Seveas> not doubting that, just curious
<Seveas> ubuntu.lt looks good, nice recommendations as well
<Seveas> +1 here
<sirex`> there is also ubuntu.lt/beta ...
<Seveas> ai
<Seveas> nice
<Seveas> drupal?
<Styx`> cms made simple
<Seveas> can you mail your theme to dennis@ubuntu.com? :)
<Styx`> Seeker`, sure
<stgraber> +1 from me too
<forumsmatthew> +1
<phanatic> i know how difficult it is to lead a loco and organize regular meetings and bigger conferences. so +1 from me.
<PriceChild> +1
<mantiena> So, it seems we will have Ubuntu member in Lithuania :)
<Seveas> popey still needs to vote :)
 * Seeker` prods Styx`s tab complete
<Styx`> Seeker`, sorry
<Seeker`> tis ok :)
<Seveas> popey, prod prod
<Seveas> who of us can stay a bit longer than 21:30? The list of members is still long
<popey> one mo
<forumsmatthew> I can stay until 22:00
<popey> ok, good stuff, +1 from me
<mantiena> viva our LoCo team :)
<Seveas> Styx`, congrats!
<Seveas> l3on, you're up
<Styx`> great! thank you guys, i'll do my best to not let you down
<l3on> Hello, I'm Leo Iannacone, 22 ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeoIannacone ). I discovered Ubuntu in the far April 2006 (now about 2 years ago). I started to bring the Italian community immediately with the forum and later I started to work for italian wiki importing new guides from the International wiki. In December 2006 I was appointed moderator in italian ubuntu forum and in January 2007 wiki editor by Italian documentation group. Currently, I work mai
<l3on> nly to italian wiki, where now I'm administrator. In recent months, with help from other administrators (specially AlessioTreglia and MiloCasagrande), we have refactoried the wiki structure, organizing it into Sections to split pages by thematic arguments (it was an hard work!), for see more take a quick look to our Index ( http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/Documentazione/Indice ); we have produced new themes for the wiki (Kubuntu - Xubuntu - Edubuntu) and
<l3on>  new macros (an hack of TableOfContents to make it good to look without a dreadful table, and one for managing the compatible releases with the page that you are reading) (see for example http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/AmministrazioneSistema/Grub ). My work is powered by hope that one day Ubuntu will be installed on most of computers, in schools, offices, everywhere. Working constantly to make this happen.
<Hattory> I would like to sustain Leo's application becouse he's one of the most involved users in the Ubuntu Italian Documentation Team. Its enthusiasm is amazing!
<Seveas> l3on, can you point me to your userpage on the .it forums?
<l3on> yes of course -> http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5827
<l3on> But, I think you have to register for read it
<Seveas> nope :)
<totopalma> Leo is a very active member: he is moderator of Italian forum and is extremely active on the Documentation Team.Nice work, Leo! :)
<Seveas> and I can manage enough italian to understand it even
<popey> nice wiki page
<PriceChild> Lots of forums posts.
<l3on> tnx popey.
<Seveas> +1
<PriceChild> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<popey> yeah, easy one, +1, well done, good work
<stgraber> +1
<phanatic> +1
<Seveas> +7 it is, congrats
<quadrispro> congrats l3on, u r great
<l3on> tnx all guys :)
<Hattory> l3on: congrats \o/
<Seveas> that's the end of the meeting I'm afraid
<l3on> quadrispro: you too ! ;)
<devfil> congrats l3on, you rock!
<Seveas> Does anybody onject to, say, 30 minutes more?
<l3on> tnx devfil :)
<totopalma> l3on, \o/
<forumsmatthew> Seveas, I am okay
<xivulon> no objection :)
<PriceChild> I'm ok to stay a little more
<quadrispro> Seveas: it could be good :)
<Seveas> s/anybody/anybody on the board/
<stgraber> Seveas: I can stay a bit longer, not sure about 30min though
<phanatic> 30 more mins is fine
<Seveas> popey, ?
<popey> yeah
<Seveas> ok, continuing until stgraber has to leave
<popey> fine by me
<Seveas> xivulon, you're up
<xivulon> Hi all, I am Agostino Russo, aka ago, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AgostinoRusso. I am the author and mainteiner of Wubi (wubi-installer.org), umenu, and a few other odd bits that ship on the LiveCD + related activities (wubi forum admin, website admin, guides, bugs in wubi and neighbouring core packages, etc).
<Seveas> wubi, umenu
<Seveas> case closed, +1
<forumsmatthew> Um, Wubi...  Huge +1
<PriceChild> +1 too
<PriceChild> Lots of thanks on ubuntuforums.org too as well as posts.
<xivulon> np
<phanatic> +1, no question
<stgraber> +1 for xivulon for all the work on wubi, collaboration with Ubuntu (all time in #ubuntu-installer) and helping users
<popey> +1
<quadrispro> grea
<quadrispro> xivulon: great :)
<Seveas> nice one, congrats!
<Seveas> quadrispro, you're up
<xivulon> thanks guys
<quadrispro> hi
<quadrispro> I'm Alessio Treglia, 24. I'm studying Information Engineering at the Faculty of Engineering, Department of Information and Automation of University of RomaTre (Rome, Italy).
<xivulon> :)
<quadrispro> After Dapper was released, I started to contribute to Italian Community growth in different ways, at first giving support in technical boards of the italian forum and in IRC channels, then reporting bugs and writing and reviewing howtos for the Italian wiki.
<popey> congrats xivulon
<quadrispro> Now I'm an official translator, a moderator of Documentation board of Italian forums and administrator of italian wiki, on which I've been working everyday. During this last period my attention is mainly focused on wiki structure refactoring and graphic restyling; in particular I'm proud for the last work which I ended together with Leo Iannacone (another Ubuntu-it wiki administrator), about new macros development.
<xivulon> thx popey
<quadrispro> I hope that Ubuntu will reach a wider diffusion and I'm trying to make it a reality, by installing Ubuntu systems on a even growing number of people's laptop and desktop and offering my free support.
<totopalma> Alessio is extremely active on the Documentation Team, he is member of the official Italian Translator Team and member of Italian Wiki Staff.
<Seveas> good wikipage, nice testimonials
<Hattory> two words for Alessio: he rocks
<Seveas> can anyone tell me how to get activity info out of moin?
<beuno> Seveas, /RecentChanges
<Seveas> (at least it looks like moin, the -it wiki)
<quadrispro> Seveas: http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/AlessioTreglia
<quadrispro> :)
<Seveas> beuno, that's not too helpful to see stats for a user
<quadrispro> http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/ModificheRecenti
<stgraber> quadrispro: I see you are in Ubuntu and Xubuntu testing teams in Launchpad, what kind of testing do you do ?
<Seveas> quadrispro, that helps
<beuno> Seveas, I'm not sure moin let's you get stats per-user
<l3on> Seveas: quadrispro everyday read/correct and help new user to write and edit guides on wiki. It's a great editor
<l3on> s/wiki/italian wiki/ ;)
<quadrispro> stgraber: i look for bug
<quadrispro> :)
<quadrispro> stgraber: but in this last period my attention was mainly focused on italian wiki
<Seveas> Leaning towards a +1 for the locowork
<Seveas> anybody want to convince me I'm wrong? :)
<Myrtti> /me shuffles her feet
<popey> looks good
<popey> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1 here
<stgraber> +1 for LoCo work
<phanatic> good testimonials, and lot of created pages/documentations in the italian wiki. +1
<PriceChild> +1
<Seveas> excellent, +6 it is
<Hattory> quadrispro: \o/
<Seveas> stgraber, time enough for one more?
<quadrispro> ï»¿thank you guys :) thank you very much
<Seveas> quadrispro, congrats :)
<totopalma> quadrispro, \o/
<devfil> congrats quadrispro :)
<l3on> ;)
<quadrispro> thank u devfil
<devfil> quadrispro: I'm happy for you
<quadrispro> thanks Seveas :)
 * PriceChild thinks ikonia be idle
 * devfil is here :)
<stgraber> Seveas: yes
<Seveas> ok, ikonia seems to be idle and pimanx isn't here. ke|p you're up
<pimanx> Im here
<ke|p> hi all!
<ke|p> ops
<pimanx> :)
<pimanx> Hi all :) My name is Martin Pihl, I'm 27 from Denmark. I candidate to be the only second Dane becoming an Ubuntu member (the other being soren from Canonicals Server Team). Among other things I'm the founder of the Danish support and community forum at http://ubuntudanmark.dk, which I created in 2006, and have been administering since then.
<pimanx> I'm very active in the Danish LoCo team, and I hope an Ubuntu membership will inspire other Danish users to put efforts into Ubuntu. sbc is here from the Danish LoCo Team. My main focus now and in the near future is Ubuntu in denmark: Work to expand the user base but also engage more new active ubunteros and lay the ground for commercial Ubuntu support and usage.
<Seveas> ke|p, oops, I made a mistake, pimanx is up first, sorry
<ke|p> no problem
<quadrispro> goodbye all
<pimanx> As you can see on my wiki page, my main contribution is in the LoCo team and particular on ubuntudanmark.dk which I founded
<Seveas> pimanx, what's ubuntu-dk.org if ubuntudanmark.dk is the main site?
<Myrtti> ok, since there's no way of getting to my application in the allotted time, I'm going to bed. Nitey everyone
<pimanx> Seveas, I created this site at a time when the loco team was very inactive
<pimanx> thats why we have to pages atm
<soren> I imagine we'll merge at some point.
 * soren runs the ubuntu-dk.org stuff
<Seveas> soren, what kind of software is it?
<soren> Seveas: ubuntu-dk.org? Django, most of it.
<pimanx> yes, ubuntudanmark primarily runs the forum
<Seveas> I ask because it looks eeeeeeeerily familiar :)
<soren> Seveas: Yeah, I may have borrowed a bit from someone... :D
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> soren, what would you say about pimanx ?
 * PriceChild ctrl+u's
<soren> I don't have a lot to add, but can certainly verify that pimanx is a very active community member and that ubuntudanmark.dk is considered a very useful ressource for many Danish Ubuntu users.
<popey> +1 from me
<popey> for community efforts
<Seveas> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<PriceChild> +1 too, looks good
<pimanx> Thanks :) - and thx for staying awake, soren ;)
<phanatic> +1
<stgraber> +1 and I'm affraid I'll need to leave after this one
<pochu> stgraber: just one more? :)
<Seveas> +6 it is
<ke|p> :/
<soren> pimanx: The legend says I don't sleep anyway, so no worries :)
<Seveas> shall we meet again next week to get rid of the backlog?
<pochu> we have 10 minutes left?
<pimanx> :)
<Seveas> pochu, stgraber has to leave and nagios os telling me I should do so as well
<forumsmatthew> Next week should work for me
<popey> would be better to stick to a schedule
<pochu> I'm here for ke|p, I'm sure you all will +1 her in a second :)
<popey> rather than having ad-hoc meetings
<popey> we've certainly broken the back of the list
<Seveas> popey, that's true
<ke|p> haha
<Seveas> pochu, add a testimonial to the wikipage
<stgraber> "Meetings are weekly, and take place in the early evening for each timezone, although the day will vary a little each week, to ensure that as many membership candidates as possible can attend."
<ke|p> I don't know if the next week  i can be here, but no problem
<Seveas> ke|p, there's always a next week
<ke|p> yes :)
<Seveas> I think it makes sense to stick to the same day and time, unless candidates have trouble with that (I've seen that ones in 2 years of CC meetings)
<popey> weekly!?
<popey> since when did we agree that!?
<Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards says so
<beuno> ke|p, poke me when you do get a chance to apply, I have quite a few good things to say about you  :)
<forumsmatthew> I didn't, but I'm willing to do it briefly to get the list cleared
<stgraber> popey: that's what the wiki page says since the beginning, I don't think it's useful either ...
<Seeker`> popey: didn;t you see the small print? you signed away your soul when you joined the membership council
<Seveas> I don't think weekly will be really necessary, but lets do that for now to get rid of backlog
<popey> clearly :)
<popey> ok, fine
<ke|p> ok beuno, thanks!
<popey> :)
<Seveas> Seeker`, jono owns his soul
<Hattory> nice meeting! bye bye
<Seeker`> heh
<stgraber> same time next week sounds good, then we'll see when will be the one after
<Seveas> ah crap, next week I won't be in on tuesday of course
<Seveas> dads 50th birthday
<Seeker`> "of course"?
<PriceChild> How about wednesday?
<PriceChild> or shall we talk this over on the list?
<stgraber> I can't on wednesday (two other meetings)
<Seveas> let's take it to the list and use that think mark said (doodle.ch)
<stgraber> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<phanatic> +1
<PriceChild> funky
<Seveas> will send summary + doodle thing to board, cc, and uwn tomorrow
<Seeker`> PriceChild: you have to be different, don't you :P
<Seveas> nagios is now really saying I should go, or else I'll be fired
<Seveas> (read: databases went down)
<popey> good work guys
<forumsmatthew> thanks, all
<Seveas> see you soon, all!
<popey> Seveas: you have the log, and are passing it on yes?
<Seveas> popey, yes
<phanatic> thanks, see you next week. good night!
<popey> cool
<ke|p> good night
<RicardoPerez> good night everyone!
<RicardoPerez> (or everybody)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU
<l3on> By all :) and tnx ;)
<popey> nn
<ke|p> snif
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-28
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU
 * ArneGoetje waves
<asac> hi all
<doko_> good morning
<evand> hi
<TheMuso> Greetings.
<cjwatson> good morning all
<bryce> heya all
<cjwatson> I hope everyone had a decent trip back from Prague
<TheMuso> Yes, as well as one can have.
<ArneGoetje> I can't complain either
<cjwatson> Chris and Steve are on holiday
 * ogra coughs and sniffs
<bryce> Prague Plague, ogra?
<ogra> bryce, mdz plague i'd say
<bryce> ogra: kees too
<ogra> seems seb and daniel have it too
<cjwatson> so, first thing is UDS proceedings
<dholbach> and Jorge and Jono :)
<ogra> heh
<cjwatson> I sent out a mail about the reports I dumped into the wiki, and getting those transformed into specs
<cjwatson> does anyone have questions about the process there?
<bryce> cjwatson: I've dumped my notes in as well
<TheMuso> No, I only need to try and find the dmraid document that was in gobby.
<TheMuso> And I have the document for the accessibility review of ubuntu specific desktop tools.
<cjwatson> IntrepidReleaseSchedule gives 5 June as the deadline for specs to be finalised
<bryce> gobby appears to have been cleared out or something; I couldn't find my xorg ones there
<TheMuso> SO will get to that in the next few days.
 * cjwatson guesses the gobby server crashed and ate its state again
<bryce> gobby gobble
<cjwatson> apparently the state is very very tasty
<liw> is it time to spend some effort on gobby reliability? at least having the client autosave, perhaps?
<cjwatson> I was just thinking that, though autosave has its own problems
<TheMuso> afaik Kees took the dmraid notes so he should probably have a copy somewhere.
<liw> preferably server side reliablity, of course
<cjwatson> with the lack of undo, autosave guarantees that nobody has a spare copy if somebody highlights the whole document and starts typing
<cjwatson> autosave; bzr commit
<bryce> bzr backing would rock
<cjwatson> I wonder if tweaking the editor to prevent overtyping a selection would be a good idea
<liw> undo would be more awesome
<liw> gobby needs a lot of tender loving care, it seems
<cjwatson> is that the sound of a volunteer? ;-)
<liw> kyllÃ¤
<liw> always answer in Finnish to questions about being a volunteer... :)
<liw> (translation for those who are not slangasek: yes, I am willing to volunteer)
<cjwatson> I found http://www.kylla.com/ and my brain melted
<asac_> sorry reconnected
<asac_> can someone paste the session so far?
<liw> asac, sure, just a moment
<asac_> thx
<liw> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15259/
<cjwatson> I've started trying to put together lists of what people are doing at https://wiki.canonical.com/DistroTeam/Platform/8.10
<cjwatson> this is horribly incomplete as yet, and even blank for some people
<liw> (and only accessible to Canonical people)
<cjwatson> indeed, it should end up being just an internal-organisation document full of links to the outside world
<cjwatson> I just find it more convenient to plan stuff there than in Launchpad
<liw> cjwatson, edits to that page should be discussed with you beforehand, I assume
<cjwatson> if they're trivial, go ahead, otherwise please ask
<cjwatson> the archive reorg is the biggest unowned item there
<cjwatson> however, for a change, I'm not looking for volunteers for that right now - to start with it isn't really an implementation project on our side
<cjwatson> we much more need to get it specced out and agreed, so that the right changes can be made in Launchpad
<cjwatson> and probably prototyped
<ArneGoetje> these are only tasks that are directly aimed at 8.10, I assume?
<cjwatson> I will work on that, but it isn't urgent that it lands in this cycle, as long as we get started; in fact it's unlikely to land in this cycle because all the Launchpad people-time has already been assigned
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: loosely, yes
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: why?
<ArneGoetje> so, I don't need to add more long-term stuff to it?
<cjwatson> no; I don't have a good place for that, maybe just on your personal wiki page if you want somewhere to aggregate it?
<ArneGoetje> ok
<cjwatson> or you could create a page linked off DistroTeam/Platform for longer-term ideas
<cjwatson> (actually, any page named DistroTeam/Platform/blah will get magically autolinked)
<ArneGoetje> well, the point is that I also need to allocate time for those, besides the tasks for 8.10... not that the long-term ones get pushed back... ;)
<cjwatson> ah, right
<cjwatson> send me mail with the details and I'll think about it and get it folded in
<ArneGoetje> ok. I was just thinking if it would be more useful to have a general overview page what people are working on, with tasks marked as 8.10, long-term or general duties, for example...
<asac> cjwatson: the tasks "upstream bugs/crashers" + "automated testing" belong more to the QA team i guess. should i add them to my list on that platform page anyway?
<cjwatson> asac: I explicitly hadn't included them for you there because I wanted to talk with you first about that :-)
<cjwatson> I'll check up with Henrik about that
<asac> ok
<cjwatson> likewise, compcache is a kernel team item
<ogra> not completely
<cjwatson> well, mostly
<ogra> it needs udev implementation i volunteered to do
<asac> cjwatson: i also have "large scale extensino maintenance using bzr", which fits nicely into "distributed development" i guess.
<ogra> kernel team adds the module to l-u-m, but it needs userspace setup
<cjwatson> asac: new heavy-duty use of bzr in the distro should definitely liaise with james_w to make sure it won't have to be redone in six months' time
<cjwatson> ogra: point me to a spec once there is one
<TheMuso> cjwatson: What do you mean by heavy duty?
<ogra> cjwatson, will do
<cjwatson> TheMuso: rolling out new systems for large groups of packages, as opposed to just sticking a stray package here and there in bzr
<cjwatson> (which is obviously to be encouraged)
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Right.
<asac> cjwatson: needs coordination with james_w, right.
<cjwatson> it's unlikely to cause a problem, but James may want to know what you're doing in order to take account of it
<cjwatson> though I see from James' activity report that you've already been talking
<asac> cjwatson: we are already doing that and had discussions on that topic at UDS
<asac> yep
<cjwatson> so, meeting times
<cjwatson> we last rotated these in February
<ArneGoetje> any reason to change? :)
<cjwatson> from 1500 UTC to 0600 UTC
<asac> ArneGoetje: yes, i finally got used to this time - and that scares me.
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I did promise at the time to rotate every few months, to spread out the pain
<ArneGoetje> asac: LOL
<cjwatson> Wednesday still seems fairly convenient
<asac> so simply rotate another -8 hours? e.g. 22h UTC ?
<liw> is there a time that will allow all of us to be awake at our normal times, rather than two-three hours after normal bedtime?
<cjwatson> 2200 UTC == 0600 Arne's time, if I'm doing my sums correctly
<bryce> liw, no there isn't
<cjwatson> liw: I don't think so :-(
<liw> alas
<cjwatson> liw: we cover western and eastern US, Europe, Taiwan, Australia
<liw> in that case, spread the pain
<liw> I'd be happy to move to Australia or Canada, if that helps ;-)
<cjwatson> it's just about pessimal for arranging meetings
<TheMuso> Since I've had it good for the last few months, I'm willing to do whatever is decided upon.
<ArneGoetje> +1
<cjwatson> Evan and Chris have probably had it worst
<bryce> I like asac's proposal - easy to remember and apply
<ogra> ++
<cjwatson> I think asac's is probably fine though possibly with an hour or so's tweak either way; we settled on 0600 because it was a bit less unpleasant for eastern US
<cjwatson> we could just reshuffle the teams so that the desktop team manager gets to deal with more than just Europe and western US for a change ;-)
<cjwatson> "just"
<liw> do I understand correctly: asac's suggestion would be to have the meeting at Tuesday 22:00 UTC?
<cjwatson> ArneGoetje: on what you said above: I think you're probably right, but I'll have to think on how to do it so as to avoid too much duplication and hence stuff getting out of date
<asac> liw: my idea was Wed 2200 UTC
<ArneGoetje> cjwatson: got it
<liw> asac, ack
<liw> I'm ok with that
<cjwatson> I'll stare at a timezone map for a bit and send mail, then
<cjwatson> any other business?
<TheMuso> Yes, minutes.
<doko> Wed 22:00 soudns fine
<cjwatson> oh yes, that rather ought to rotate too
<TheMuso> I can do this meeting's minutes, but I would like to share the work around for those.
<cjwatson> volunteers?
<liw> whoever joins the meeting last gets to do the minutes? :)
<bryce> earlier I volunteered to help out.  I might be out on jury duty part of June though (or maybe not)
<liw> I'd be happy with a setup where the secretary gets chosen randomly at the beginning of each meeting
<TheMuso> Well I'd rather not do them if the meeting ends up at a time which requires me to get up/make myself available for it.
<TheMuso> I don't mind doing such a meeting time, but I'd probably rather not have to worry about minutes for that meeting.
<cjwatson> one does need to be awake; seems best to have it selected from those people for whom it's normal working hours
<bryce> TheMuso: yeah that sounds fair
<liw> yeah, that sounds good
<cjwatson> which means bryce is probably a good candidate for this rotation anyway, modulo jury duty
<bryce> yup
<cjwatson> done
<cjwatson> any other other business?
<liw> my keyboard battery is about to die...
<liw> so nothing from me
<asac> :)
<ArneGoetje> nothing from me either
 * ogra will go back to bed and stay there for most of the day to cure that flu ting
<TheMuso> Only that it was great to see everybody face to face once again. :)
<asac> ack++
<cjwatson> liw: punched cards are the way forward
<ogra> yeah
<liw> greatness.lock(); greatness.set_value(greatness.get_value() + 1); greatness.unlock()
<cjwatson> indeed so
<cjwatson> adjourned, then
<evand> thanks
<bryce> thanks
<asac> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<liw> kiitos
<ogra> thanks
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council
<lukehasnoname> Anyone?
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Schedule for America/Lima: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 16:00: Server Team | 28 May 20:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 08:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 07:00: MOTU | 31 May 07:30:  Forum Council
<lukehasnoname> @schedule houston
<ubottu> lukehasnoname: Error: Unknown timezone: houston - Full list: http://jussi01.com/web/timezones.html
<lukehasnoname> haha
<lukehasnoname> @schedule central
<ubottu> lukehasnoname: Schedule for Canada/Central: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 16:00: Server Team | 28 May 20:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 08:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 07:00: MOTU | 31 May 07:30:  Forum Council
<lukehasnoname> nice.
<Syntux> @schedule
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00: MOTU | 31 May 12:30:  Forum Council
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubottu> zul: Schedule for America/Montreal: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 17:00: Server Team | 28 May 21:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 09:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 08:00: MOTU | 31 May 08:30:  Forum Council
<leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
<ubottu> leoquant: Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 23:00: Server Team | 29 May 03:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 15:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 14:00: MOTU | 31 May 14:30:  Forum Council
<fdd> @schedule
<ubottu> fdd: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00: MOTU | 31 May 12:30:  Forum Council
<fdd> @schedule bucharest
<ubottu> fdd: Schedule for Europe/Bucharest: Current meeting: Launchpad users meeting | 29 May 00:00: Server Team | 29 May 04:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 16:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 15:00: MOTU | 31 May 15:30:  Forum Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
 * lukehasnoname says hi
<pedro_> ahoj!
 * ogasawara_ waves
 * cgregan waves back
<heno> hey!
<davmor2> Good evening everybody :)
 * stgraber waves
<bdmurray> hi
 * heno tries the bot
<heno> #startmeeting
<mgunes> hi all
<davmor2> no bot :(
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> hope everyone who was at UDS made it home ok
<Seeker`> broken bot - sorry, I've got exams at the moment, i'll fix it when they are over
<mgunes> I'm fine, except the UbuFlu :)
<heno> Seeker`: thanks, no worries
<pedro_> I'm just with a bit of Ubuflu ;-)
<bdmurray> +1
<cgregan> I must be lucky...no Flubuntu here
<stgraber> Ubuflu is over for me :) but I was only in Prague for a few days
 * heno is UbuFluFree :)
<cgregan> I even shared a plane with MattZ
<davmor2> I'm not :D
 * pedro_ spreading lysol
<lukehasnoname> What meeting is starting?
<stgraber> lukehasnoname: QA team
<lukehasnoname> ooo!
<sbeattie> I'm finally recovering from the Prague Plague...
<heno> cgregan: heh, you finally met Matt on the plane home? :)
<lukehasnoname> This isn't on the calender
<cgregan> heno: yes...kept my distance though ;-0
<lukehasnoname> or is it
<mgunes> lukehasnoname, it's secret, don't tell anyone :p
<lukehasnoname> @schedule
<ubottu> lukehasnoname: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00: MOTU | 31 May 12:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00: LoCo Council
<heno> jcastro: you know your way around the Fridge right? Could you look at getting the QA team meeting added on a rolling basis?
<lukehasnoname> So the first step to being an "Ubuntero" / contributor is universe/multiverse package management?
<heno> I seem to remember the calendar needed hand-cranking each month or something
<jcastro> heno: I'll look into it
<heno> jcastro: thanks!
<jcastro> I /think/ they need to be added manually
<heno> ok, let's start
<heno> topic: Intrepid QA schedule
<heno> please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/IntrepidSchedule and raise any objections
<heno> thanks bdmurray for updating it for Intrepid
<pedro_> looks fine to me
<bdmurray> There is still some filing in to do of the focus
<pedro_> the developer sprint will be between the 14 and 18 of July, right?
<lukehasnoname> 1)What is SRU verification?
<lukehasnoname> briefly. I know I'm new, and I don't want to take too much time
<davmor2> Looks good
<heno> we should have a point for test case review
<stgraber> lukehasnoname: Stable Release Update verification
<bdmurray> lukehasnoname: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<heno> 1-2 weeks before Beta IMObefore Beta
<cgregan> heno: I agree.
<bdmurray> week 20?
<bdmurray> so they get reviewed with Alpha 6?
<heno> sure, ~September 18th seems good
<bdmurray> or 21 after UI freeze?
<heno> after UI freeze, before beta some time
<heno> we should perhaps allow a week for that process
<bdmurray> I updated week 21 w/ test case review
<heno> Alpha 6 is a good time to confirm that its A-ok
<heno> thanks
<heno> that's all I can see for now
<heno> please raise further feedback on the qa list or at next weeks meeting
<heno> topic: Intrepid QA specifications
<heno> we should update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs for Intrepid
<heno> deadline is June 5th but allow some time for review
<heno> so we should try to get specs in place by Tuesday in the Review state
<mgunes> do we have a list of prospective spec titles/stubs?
<heno> topics from here http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-intrepid/ don't all map well to specs
<mgunes> indeed
<heno> mgunes: right, so some rejigging will be required
<heno> I'll start updating the spec wiki page with my take on that, but please also add specs you are leading / involved in
<heno> some can be recycles from last cycle
<stgraber> I'll be quite busy with exams next week so I'd really appreciate anyone helping me spec the QA-Website, QA-Portal, Package website and Brainstorm specs. I'm not sure of the status of the QA-Tracker spec at the moment
<heno> like the desktop testing one
<stgraber> QA-Website, QA-Portal and QA-Tracker need a spec, not sure about the two others (Brainstorm and app website)
<heno> stgraber: I can help with the QA specs
<mgunes> stgraber, I can probably help if you share all your local UDS Gobby sessions that I couldn't save :)
<heno> jcastro: I assume you'll keep in touch with stgraber and nand Re the brainstorm stuff
<jcastro> heno: yep I was just writing the mail in fact
<heno> ah, yes, please help fill the gaps of lost gobby docs generally!
<heno> jcastro: cool!
<heno> so at next weeks meeting we'll focus on getting the specs wrapped up
<mgunes> I'm hoping to implement a "tester weather report" that I talked briefly about at UDS; will add to the specs page once I have a rough spec + some initial feedback
<stgraber> mgunes: the gobby session for Brainstorm and AppWebsite are on the wiki, not sure about the QA-Portal one (I may still have it somewhere here)
<heno> (I'm also emailing and phoning various people about this this week)
<lukehasnoname> how many of you actually went to UDS?
<bdmurray> lukehasnoname: probably all the ones talking
<lukehasnoname> o_o
<lukehasnoname> I'm alone in my absence
<heno> we had a good QA showing indeed
<mgunes> stgraber, I'd appreciate qa-portal one if you can find it
<davmor2> lukehasnoname: your not I wasn't there either :(
<heno> any more questions about spec writing?
<stgraber> mgunes: I can't find it on gobby, the wiki or my hdd but I think I emailed it to cr3 so I should find it in my sent mails :)
<sbeattie> mgunes, stgraber: I might have it
<heno> topic: Promoting and tracking the use of proposed
<mgunes> stgraber, sbeattie, if you do, please forward to me or ping me (and let's use a standard namespace on gobby.ubuntu.com next time)
<stgraber> sbeattie: cool, mine is pre-UDS so I only have the bits discussed at FOSSCamp :(
<pedro_> yay for proposed packages
<sbeattie> that was the extending-qa.ubuntu.com session, right?
<heno> please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
<stgraber> mgunes: I put the one I have in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/FossCamp/
<stgraber> sbeattie: yes
<pedro_> i should blog about that...
<mgunes> stgraber, thanks
<sbeattie> stgraber: yeah, I have it, I'll email.
<heno> note that my test of Apport failed - does anyone know more about that?
<bdmurray> heno: its /etc/default/apport now
<lukehasnoname> hardy proposed is for the point release?
<stgraber> heno: what failed ? did you see the point I added to your instructions ?
<heno> If a restart is required I should add that to the page
<stgraber> modifying /etc/default/apport and running /etc/init.d/apport restart should start it
<pedro_> an apport restart should do the trick
<pedro_> right
<heno> stgraber, bdmurray: I did that
<heno> ah! we need to add the /etc/init.d/apport step
<davmor2> heno: I just ran the commands and nothing happens
<bdmurray> heno: how did you get the smaller picture, it's not obvious to me at the moment
<heno> ok, it works now. I'll update the instructions
<heno> bdmurray: the thumbnai? resize in gimp :)
<heno> thumbnail even
<bdmurray> ah, I thought it was some wiki magic
<stgraber> bdmurray: would be too easy :)
<davmor2> bdmurray: no just a lot of time in the gimp and a line of text a mile long ;)
<davmor2> guys I still can't get apport to run :(
<lukehasnoname> its legs are tired
<heno> what do people think of tracking -proposed usage in this way? See: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/proposed-tracking/+bugs
<heno> If we agree that it's sane I'll blog about it later
<heno> mgunes: could you echo that in a forum thread as well?
<stgraber> looks good to me
<mgunes> heno, will do if we decide to go on with it
<heno> mgunes: I actually stole your idea of using a forum sticky with me too comments
<bdmurray> Did we have some discussion about tagging proposed package crashes somehow?  If so that should be in those two bug reports.
<davmor2> Looks good but I don't seem to be able to enable apport still :(
<heno> but I though LP would be good because testers really should have an LP account and have uploaded a HW profile
<mgunes> heno, cool; improvised solutions can work better than elaborate ones :)
<heno> bdmurray: perhaps we should also link to bug filing guidelines
<mgunes> heno, but what would be the "more automated solution" mentioned at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed ?
<heno> mgunes: we discussed at UDS to use popcon to collect the info
<heno> (opt-in obviously)
<heno> but we'll look closer at that post hardy.1
<mgunes> ah, ok, I remember
<heno> sbeattie has looked at the code a bit
<heno> ok, we seem agreed. I'll go ahead with that
<heno> please help seed the bugs with your registrations!
<heno> bdmurray: will you add the tag and bug filing doc links to the bug descriptions?
<heno> bdmurray: use whatever tag convention you feel is appropriate
<bdmurray> heno: sure
<heno> thanks
<heno> topic: Can people check out the files under [WWW] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Includes please? -- davmor2
<mgunes> heno, there's yet no way to query one's own uploaded hardware info (or whether it's uploaded at all) in LP right?
<heno> mgunes: you have to check the non-published URL
<lukehasnoname> Guys, quick question: Hypothetically, if someone designed a website for Ubuntu that had a system integrating bug tracking, error reporting, wiki, brainstorm, member information, etc., do you think Ubuntu would ipliment it?
<heno> on the form https://launchpad.net/~<launchpad-id>/+hwdb-submissions
<davmor2> mgunes: probably not but if your a tester then you can always add your HW spec to your tracker account and that can
<lukehasnoname> *implement, I'm smarter than I spell
<pedro_> isn't the last test on the Tomboy page a bit generic?
<heno> lukehasnoname: why would you want to reimplement that?
<mgunes> heno, found it right after asking, thanks :)
<pedro_> i mean, that's the goal for almost all the UI applications
<davmor2> cool :)
<lukehasnoname> I admit I am no expert at navigating the different sites. Perhaps it is my ignorance. However, it seems that the layout and the ways in which things are done are thrown together
<heno> writing test cases can be hard because you run out of new things to test after a while -- I'm sure additions are welcome :)
<lukehasnoname> If there were a more structured, planned setup, things might be more navigable / easier to maintain
<heno> I know, I've written some and you find yourself stumped for coming up with interesting ways to test even the simplest applications
<sbeattie> davmor2: cgregan has some stuff on the wiki about testing mobile apps, might be able to steal specific tests from that.
<lukehasnoname> Now that Ubuntu is becoming larger in the community, it is not so hard to make a plan on a professional, deliberate web environment.
<heno> sbeattie: he and davmor2 have actually worked together on those :)
<davmor2> sbeattie: I been working on them with him :)
<lukehasnoname> If I'm hijacking the meeting, I'll stop, I'll just draw up specs myself and see where things go. thanks for bouncing my ideas.
<heno> I think the new test case structure and layout generally rocks!
<heno> though a bit more detail would help in many cases
<heno> pedro_: could you do a review of the desktop cases and add some more steps?
<pedro_> heno: sure, will do it
<heno> thanks
<pedro_> np :-)
<heno> ok, any other topics?
<lukehasnoname> Now how do I contribute to testing?
<davmor2> I feel a 3
<lukehasnoname> er, register for it?
<heno> lukehasnoname: what kind of testing?
<heno> Hardy updates, ISO testing, or mobile perhaps? :)
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing is a good place to start reading
<lukehasnoname> in the testing cases for install and desktop
<cgregan> For mobile: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEdesktop
<heno> lukehasnoname: that's install, so you'll need to register at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<lukehasnoname> Let me clarify: Are those for people to test their own software for their own sake, or for testers to verify and report back to Ubuntu QA?
<heno> we actually have proper test tracking for that :)
<heno> to report back that the updated/installed packages work as expected
<heno> looks like we are done with meeting
<heno> thanks everyone!
<stgraber> thanks
<pedro_> thanks you
<lukehasnoname> Every Wednesday at this time?
<sbeattie> thanks
<mgunes> thanks, see you all
<davmor2> yay got apport working :)
<jcastro> take care guys!
<stgraber> davmor2: cool
<davmor2> lukehasnoname: you might want to think about joining the #ubuntu-testing channel
<lukehasnoname> hm, cool
<Daviey> @schedule
<ubottu> Daviey: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00: MOTU | 31 May 12:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00: LoCo Council
<lukehasnoname> Now that I have a job I have time to kill on the net studying Ubuntu
<Daviey> gah, UTC != UTC+1 :(
<RoAkSoAx> pedro_, have a question, at what time is the Americas Membership Board meeting?? because, in the wiki says 00.00 UTC and here 01.00 UTC...
<lukehasnoname> BTW, My birthday is October 30th, so I expect a damned fine Ibex.
<pedro_> it's at UTC 00:00
<lukehasnoname> It's at 8pm CDT
<pedro_> don't trust the topic this time ;-)
<lukehasnoname> I think?
<pedro_> the right information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<RoAkSoAx> pedro_, haha ok thanks ;)
<pedro_> RoAkSoAx: you're welcome :-)
<bdmurray> pedro_: how many hours is that? ;)
<pedro_> bdmurray: the meeting? should be like ~1 hour (hope so)
<bdmurray> I really meant hours away
<bdmurray> apparently math and english are hard
<pedro_> 4 from now on
<davmor2> bdmurray: not when ya talk proper English like what we does :)
<lukehasnoname> who's bored
<RoAkSoAx> @schedule lima
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Schedule for America/Lima: 28 May 16:00: Server Team | 28 May 20:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 08:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 07:00: MOTU | 31 May 07:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 11:00: LoCo Council
<lukehasnoname> me too
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<Syntux> @schedule
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 28 May 21:00: Server Team | 29 May 01:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00: MOTU | 31 May 12:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00: LoCo Council
<lukehasnoname> Damage Inc. - Metallica
 * lukehasnoname joined #ubuntu-meeting
<lukehasnoname> PriceChild joined us
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<zul> evening
<lukehasnoname> hi
<sommer> hey all
 * nealmcb got home yesterday and is hoping to be over most of the jet lag by tomorrow....
<nealmcb> sommer: howdy :)
<Koon> sommer: \o/
 * owh waves with bleary eyes almost open.
<kirkland> howdy
<zul> bonjour
<lukehasnoname> Hi
<sommer> heh, o//
<mathiaz> hello world of the Ubuntu Server
<mathiaz> hope everyone got back from UDS safely
<soren> o/
<nealmcb> no mootbot: ï»¿Seeker`: broken bot - sorry, I've got exams at the moment, i'll fix it when they are over
<mathiaz> nealmcb: really ?
<mathiaz> nealmcb: MootBot is here though
<nealmcb> quote from an hour ago.... - but try it anyway
<mathiaz> anyway - let's get started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<dendrobates-> o/
<mathiaz> after a three week break, we've got a couple of things to discuss.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review last meeting action point
<mathiaz> last meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080507
 * nealmcb . o O (UDS was a break?)
<mathiaz> I see one point - kirkland and virtualization
<owh> ROTFL
<kirkland> mathiaz: i think we decided on their names
<kirkland> mathiaz: i updated the packages in my PPA
<kirkland> mathiaz: now, I'd like to see about getting them uploaded into Intrepid
 * nealmcb cheers for kirkland
 * kirkland bows
<ivoks> (hi all)
<mathiaz> kirkland: did you ask for feedback on ubuntu-server@ ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I did
<kirkland> mathiaz: Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:19 AM
<kirkland> mathiaz: one person said thanks, he'd be using them
<mathiaz> kirkland: great - next step is to get your new package uploaded
<kirkland> mathiaz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-May/001493.html
<mathiaz> kirkland: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?highlight=(NewPackages)
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay
<mathiaz> allright - that's all from the last meeting I think
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Specification writing
<mathiaz> so at UDS we talked a lot - now is time to write down specifications
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: who is doing what ?
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: I'm not sure about this as most of our discussed topics at uds hadn't blueprints registered
<lukehasnoname> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/Report/Server
<dendrobates-> If you chaired a session, you should write the spec.
<lukehasnoname> for those who ahven't seen it
<dendrobates-> I will edit them as necessary
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: ok.
<dendrobates-> and do any that are left over.
<mathiaz> so the deadline for spec write in thursday next week
<ivoks> ok
<dendrobates-> just a reminder that writing a spec does not mean that it will end up in intrepid for sure.
<dendrobates-> but it is a good start.
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: I was wondering if it makes sense to have Intrepid in the name of the wiki page
<ivoks> do we need to write specs for stuff we disccused and agreed on at uds?
<mathiaz> I've gone through all specs, that are still valid
<mathiaz> ivoks: it would help
<mathiaz> ivoks: to keep track of what we're doing and implementation
<ivoks> mathiaz: ok, i'll do my part
<dendrobates-> mathiaz: sure.
<mathiaz> once the spec are written, they'll be added to the Roadmap
<mathiaz> and we'll review the progress during the server meeting
<mathiaz> ivoks: it will help wrt to freezes and so on
<ivoks> right
<mathiaz> ivoks: I'd also use them to extract tasks for new contributors
<mathiaz> ivoks: so that people can get started quickly
<mathiaz> if you have an idea but don't have time, write a spec
<ivoks> :)
<mathiaz> and may be someone else will pick it up and do the work :D
<dendrobates-> please check if a spec exists, before you create it, though.
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: where ? in lp or on the wiki ?
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: does it make sense to take over old wiki pages and refresh them ?
<dendrobates-> lp is where it matters.
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: ok.
<mathiaz> if someone writes up a new wiki page for an existing blueprint in lp, dendrobates- can update the spec in lp
<mathiaz> update the drafter, etc... of the blueprint in lp
<effie_jayx> @now
<ubottu> effie_jayx: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 28 2008, 21:18:12 - Current meeting: Server Team
<mathiaz> let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Discussion on current status of J2EESupport options
<mathiaz> Koon: what's the state of j2ee ?
<Koon> ok, so I've been exploring our options
<nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/J2EESupport
<Koon> yes, work in progress
<Koon> I mostly checked Tomcat and Geronimo for now
<Koon> but I already have a few questions I would like to discuss
<Koon> Two of our options are "modular" targets
<Koon> a framework where you pull in plug-ins based on what you want to do
<Koon> (geronimo and GlassFish v3 do this)
<Koon> the interesting part being you can use them just as a servlet container, or pull things all the way to make a full J2EE server, whatever you need
<Koon> so a single product would allow us to cover all the types of needs
<sommer> I forget, but is glassfish v3 going to be out by intrepid?
<Koon> sommer: not really
<sommer> gotcha, just double checking
<mathiaz> Koon: have you looked at tomcat5.5 packaging ?
<Koon> is modularity something we should try to have ?
<ivoks> so, glassfish isn't really an option
<Koon> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> Koon: is it modular or monolitic ?
<Koon> there are a few issues with the tomcat5.5 package, nothing too complicated to fix (see wiki)
<dendrobates-> we should wait for the matrix to be finished before we try to draw any conclusions
<Koon> tomcat5.5 is just a servlet container, nothing more, nothing less
<dendrobates-> modularity sounds good though.
<Koon> dendrobates-: I have the question about maven
<Koon> it's the build system used in Geronimo and Glassfish v3 (possibly others)
<mathiaz> Koon: IMO aiming at being modular is a good thing
<mathiaz> Koon: modular => multiple binary packages
<mathiaz> Koon: you may want to have a look Zope3 also
<dendrobates-> Koon: what about maven?
<faulkes-> arguably modular == multiple binary packages ;)
<Koon> mathiaz: yes. We would ship the base, the modules + a few metapackages
<mathiaz> Koon: IIRC upstream uses lot's of smal package
<faulkes-> sematics, I know
<Koon> dendrobates-: it cannot really be used to build a package in the debian way
<faulkes-> but I agree in principle that modular is better
<Koon> dendrobates-: afaict having a deb-compliant Maven is still work in progress at debian-java
<dendrobates-> Koon: What are the technical issues with maven?
 * nijaba waves (and presents excuses for being late)
<Koon> dendrobates-: maven downloads at build time all the build deps, dozens of jars from everywhere
<mathiaz> Koon: this should be put somewhere in the Spec
 * faulkes- hides from nijaba in fear of his well overdue WP
<mathiaz> Koon: so that we know what work needs to be done
<Koon> dendrobates-: to use maven in the deb building, it needs to be patched to use a common local repository, and all maven plugins must be packaged as individual packages
<Koon> so that we can list them as deb build-deps
<dendrobates-> Koon: understood.
<Koon> it looks like a lot more work than packaging geronimo itself.
<Koon> last question : am I right to assume all build deps for a package targeted for Main must also be in Main ?
<mathiaz> Koon: yes
<Koon> ok
<soren> main must be self-contained.
<Koon> I'll continue to investigate options, trying to have a complete matrix by Friday
<Koon> dendrobates-: Geronimo was every reactive, provided a patch to allow OpenJDK-6 building
<dendrobates-> Koon: that is a good sign.
<Koon> ok, next item
<mathiaz> Koon: great - thanks.
<emgent> @now
<ubottu> emgent: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 28 2008, 21:33:36 - Current meeting: Server Team
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] front end for ubuntu-vm-builder
<mathiaz> kirkland: what have you created on your way back from UDS ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: a simple frontend for generating the verbose arguments ubuntu-vm-builder accepts
<kirkland> mathiaz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
<kirkland> mathiaz: it's javascript, so it runs in your local browser, no posting of passwords and machine configurations over the net
<kirkland> mathiaz: and it could give us something to work with in building vm's as a webservice
<dendrobates-> kirkland: it's a good start, thanks
<owh> kirkland: What happened to the --exec flag?
<kirkland> mathiaz: I also have python code that does the same, but requires GET/POST
<kirkland> owh: i'm accepting patches ;-)
<owh> Heh
<kirkland> owh: i have about 90% coverage of ubuntu-vm-builder's options
<owh> kirkland: I already did in the actual code :)
<nijaba> kirkland: for 0.4 that is ;)
<owh> Cool, in my spare life, I'll have a squiz.
<kirkland> nijaba: touche, yes
<kirkland> i thought a few people here might find it useful
<ScottK2> kirkland: I think I know who needs to work on our config editor for deploying different server flavors ...
<kirkland> and figured i'd talk with soren more about what his vision is on a front end in the future
 * owh wrote a local little script for the same effect, never thought to share it.
 * nijaba hugs kirkland as he find it an extremely good start
<kirkland> thanks, nijaba
<kirkland> you can wget the html and run it locally, as file:///tmp/ubuntu-vm-builder.html as well...  as i said, no webserver required
<owh> Nice.
<zul> javascript needs to be turned on though :)
<kirkland> mathiaz: that's all.
<nijaba> zul: heh, I'm sure we can do a version in flash just for you
<owh> Yuk
 * ScottK2 hides his eyes.
<kirkland> nijaba: ActiveX!
<mathiaz> kirkland: great !
 * faulkes- agrees with kirkland
<zul> nijaba: ouch you are making my brain freeze
<faulkes-> ActiveX is definitely the way to go
<Koon> faulkes-: it has always been
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Status of the Ubuntu Server Survey
<mathiaz> owh: what's the state of this ?
<nijaba> good news on that front
<nijaba> limesurvey just informed me that they fixed the security issues kees found
 * owh has comments, but will wait until nijaba is done.
<nijaba> so it should, in theory, be suitable for usage in the dc
<nijaba> but we need a counter verification by kees first
<owh> How far along is that?
<nijaba> that -vv
<owh> The verification.
<owh> Or does kees need be asked?
<nijaba> well, that really depends on kees load, I can't predict
<kees> hello!  (sorry, I'm still lagging behind reality -- conf + weekend + sick == eeeek)
 * owh sends a cup of hot Milo to kees.
<kees> :):)
<nijaba> question was; when could you be able to check limesurvey again
<nijaba> as limesurvey says they fixed the issues you found
<kees> re-checks are usually easier and faster.  given my current load, though, I don't think I can get to it this week.
<kees> perhaps early next week?  tuesday maybe?
<owh> Can we book an appointment :)
<kees> heh
<kees> if only all security issues booked appointments.  :)
<owh> Ah, we're not an issue, we're an audit :)
<owh> So, if Tuesday happens, then next meeting we should be pretty close then?
<nijaba> but issues for stuff in main take precedence, obviously, to the audits
<kees> very true, but my load tends to alternate depending on surprises.  ;)  Anyway, let's say I'll have you something by EOD on tuesday.
 * nijaba thanks kees in advance
<owh> +1
 * kees hugs owh and nijaba
<nijaba> then I need to finalize my package for it, and we a re done
<owh> Well on that note, let me add my two cents.
<mathiaz> nijaba: package ? it's not part of the archive yet ?
<owh> Related to the survey I've just joined the ubuntu-marketing team where a healthy discussion is underway to discuss how a marketing team can provide resources to LoCos and teams such as ubuntu-server.
<nijaba> please
<owh> Related to the survey I've just joined the ubuntu-marketing team where a healthy discussion is underway to discuss how a marketing team can provide resources to LoCos and teams such as ubuntu-server.
<owh> crap
<owh> I joined because I felt that it would be beneficial for ubuntu-server to have a representation within marketing and because I have some personal marketing ideas for my company with respect to Ubuntu.
<owh> I've also updated the embargo date on the proposed survey press release, that is, removed the April 2008 date reference and was hoping that we would come to a release schedule or plan that I could report back to ubuntu-marketing as an example of how u-s could work with u-m.
<owh> Is there additional work we could do before we spring our survey on the world?
<mathiaz> owh: could some of the task be done in parallel ?
<nijaba> that would make sense
<owh> mathiaz: I don't understand hour question.
<owh> s/h/y/
<mathiaz> owh: hm.. let me rephrase
<mathiaz> owh: how could u-m help us in the survey ?
<mathiaz> owh: if they have other ideas or can help on the press release text, that can be done while we're waiting for kees audit
<owh> mathiaz: Well, right now I think that they might have additional contacts. It appears that they are revitalising after a hiatus. I agree with the latter points. I'll start the ball running after this meeting for that.
<mathiaz> owh: refining the list of communication channels to announce the survey can also be done at the same time
<santiago-pgsql> date
<owh> Yes
<owh> santiago-pgsql: That will depend on nijaba and kees.
<owh> It may also depend on other releases, but I'm (not yet) aware of those.
<owh> How about we aim for June 15 - picked out of a hat.
<mathiaz> owh: well we don't know when the audit will be done
<mathiaz> owh: I wouldn't pick a date
<owh> That's fine by me, but our time-line is slipping if we want to use the data for our next release.
<nijaba> let's pick a date the day we have the ful stuff running in the dc...
<owh> Cool
<nijaba> owh: me too, but it would be bad to announce something that is not ready
<mathiaz> owh: anything else to add on this front ?
<owh> nijaba: I'll use the intervening time to sharpen up the release and release process. All good.
<owh> mathiaz: Nope, I'm done.
<mathiaz> owh: great - I'm eager to see how we can collaborate with the ubuntu-marketing team
<lukehasnoname> Hey guys, I gotta jet, workday is over. I assume this log will be posted on wiki, so at your convenience, "What, if any, progress is being made on having some sort of GUI/web-based frontend admin/monitor for server services? What was discussed at UDS about this?"
 * nijaba nods
<owh> mathiaz: You and me both.
<lukehasnoname> seeya next Wed
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
<mathiaz> anything else to add ?
<zul> yes just one
<zul> 8.04.1 is coming out in early july I encourage people to test out server related SRUs they can be found in the wiki
<ivoks> right
<owh> In brief answer to lukehasnoname, kirkland and I are still working on the status for init.d scripts. We've found some bugs thanks to a discussion yesterday with lamont. I've committed to making some patches and a bug report. You can add it as an action point.
<nijaba> tomorrow is the deadline for bugs picked for it right?
<dendrobates-> Howard posted this to openldap-devel about uds: http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200805/msg00087.html
<soren> zul: Early June? The release schedule says July?
<zul> I said early July didnt I?
<nijaba> July 3rd
<soren> zul: Wow..
<soren> zul: Yes, you did.
 * soren puts down the crack pipe
<owh> Also, the Intrepid Report shown at the beginning of the meeting shows comments about calendar servers. I've been working with Jo Erlend Schinstad on docs for Darwin Calendar Server and it has now been packaged for Intrepid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CalendarServer and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/182591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182591 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Calendar Server" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<Koon> soren: you've been doing too much support in #ubuntu-virt
<zul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/StableReleaseTracker please test the ones marked needs testing
<soren> Koon: Feel like taking over? :)
<Koon> soren: nobody could replace you, you know that :)
<zul> owh: really wow!
<nijaba> double wow
<ivoks> umm
 * owh takes no credit for the packaging.
<ivoks> on this list, one can't really tell if these are hardy or dapper sru
 * owh just wrote the docs and seconded the packaging request :)
<zul> ivoks: they are all for hardy
<ivoks> maybe we should add 'version' column?
<mathiaz> owh: any plans to move relevant bits of the how-to to help.ubuntu.com ?
<zul> ivoks: but yeah I can do that
<ivoks> zul: including openldap2.3?
<owh> mathiaz: Well, most of the howto should become obsolete once I've had a moment to test the package.
<ivoks> hardy has 2.4 :)
<zul> ivoks: ill fix that
<owh> mathiaz: But given that I wasn't at UDS, this was my opportunity to point at DCS :)
<mathiaz> owh: great! - thanks for the heads up
<mathiaz> owh: I'm sure zul will appreciate this
<mathiaz> Time to wrap up
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ?
<owh> +1
<soren> You bet.
<zul> can we make it an hour earlier if possible
<ivoks> zul: +1
<Koon> zul: +1
<owh> Uhm, that would be 4 am for me :(
<kirkland> +1
 * owh is in a dressing gown with a hot cup of coffee :)
<mathiaz> could we make it 4 hours earlier instead ?
<kirkland> oh, sorry, i wasn't +1'ing the one hour earlier
<mathiaz> that would be 17:00 UTC
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm okay with that
<owh> 1am, hmm, that's even worse mathiaz.
<ivoks> owh: well, it's midnight here now :D
<Koon> 16:00 UTC ?
<owh> Well, if there is a majority for a different time, I'll turn up when it happens. I might not be handing out Milo, but I'll be there.
<ivoks> it's really hard to decide; at this time my brain doesn't function very well, but at 16UTC i might not even make it :/
<owh> So far it seems that 1 hour earlier is a better deal for many.
<owh> The ubuntu-marketing team has a calculator. I'll find the URL.
<owh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
<owh> You all get to vote :)
<mathiaz> well - someone will always be screwed
<ivoks> right
<mathiaz> ok - so I'll send an email to u-server with a new proposal
<owh> mathiaz: I recon, propose a time and ask again.
<dendrobates-> mathiaz: didn't you post this time to the ml and decide it was best?
<ivoks> let's just keep it as is
<mathiaz> for a new time - need to check with the calendar
<mathiaz> and for next week, same time, same place
<sommer> works for me :)
<mathiaz> dendrobates-: yes - that was before owh was attending meeting at 5 AM for him
<nijaba> thanks mathiaz
<dendrobates-> ouch
<owh> I'm cool with 5am, just not so much 4am.
 * Koon waves goodnight to everyone
<mathiaz> all right - thanks all
<dendrobates-> bye
<owh> Thanks mathiaz
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<owh> Later all.
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
<ivoks> bye
<kirkland> bye
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<Seeker`> mathiaz: sorry for the lack of a working mootbot - I'm hoping to be able to fix it on friday
<mathiaz> Seeker`: np.
<mathiaz> Seeker`: we can run meeting without it - however it's a big helper when it comes to summarize a meeting
<mathiaz> Seeker`: and prepare the minutes - thanks for your work ! :)
<Seeker`> mathiaz: There have been problems with hosting over the past few months, and it doesn't seem to want to work on its current host, and i'm not sure why
<Seeker`> not a problem - I really need to do more work on it, I haven't touched the code much in > 1 year
<viperhoot> hmmm the meeting of the amÃ©ricas has an error in the hour
<viperhoot> is 00:00 UTC
<viperhoot> only for consideration ;)
<pochu> Rinchen: ^ (you're in the fridge team, right? :) )
<Rinchen> hello
<Rinchen> viperhoot, is that for a particular event? or everything consistently in the title?
<viperhoot> Rinchen, yes, for the  Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<viperhoot> it is programmed for the 00:00 UTC not 01:00 UTC
<Rinchen> ok, let me have a look
<Rinchen> brb
<viperhoot> Rinchen, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas ;)
<Rinchen> well, I need the fridge entry :-)
<Rinchen> viperhoot, this one? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1455
<viperhoot> yes, May 28th at (8:00pm) Eastern
<cody-somerville> The meeting is in 65 minutes.
<viperhoot> 00:00 UTC
<Rinchen> hmm something is off on the timezone calcs it seems.
<viperhoot> cody-somerville, yes :D i'm member candidate for this meeting :D
<Rinchen> I'll fix the entry
<Rinchen> that means 00:00 UTC if my math is correct
<viperhoot> Rinchen, ejem
<cody-somerville> EST is actually EDT right now
<cody-somerville> So it is -4 instead of regular -5
<viperhoot> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=5&day=29&year=2008&hour=00&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 ;)
<Rinchen> cody-somerville, yeah, we'll have to remember to list things as GMT until we figure that out
<Rinchen> cody-somerville, I'm not sure what script populates this topic
<Rinchen> @now
<ubottu> Rinchen: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 28 2008, 22:59:37 - Next meeting: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board in 2 hours 0 minutes
<Rinchen> I fixified it ;-)
<Rinchen> er
<Rinchen> hmm
<Rinchen> the calendar entry is correct but not everything else
<Rinchen> @denver
<cody-somerville> @toronto
<Rinchen> @americas/denver
<pochu> @ schedule denver
<ubottu> pochu: Schedule for America/Denver: 28 May 19:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 07:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 06:00: MOTU | 31 May 06:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 10:00: LoCo Council
<Rinchen> I always forget the commands
<pochu> :)
<viperhoot> @ schedule lima
<ubottu> viperhoot: Schedule for America/Lima: 28 May 20:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 08:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 07:00: MOTU | 31 May 07:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 11:00: LoCo Council
<cody-somerville> @schedule toronto
<ubottu> cody-somerville: Schedule for America/Toronto: 28 May 21:00: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 09:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 08:00: MOTU | 31 May 08:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 12:00: LoCo Council
<Rinchen> ok, well, I updated the fridge.  I think I remember a script running hourly which updates this channel
<viperhoot> ok
<pochu> !bye
<ubottu> Au revoir!
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-29
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 00:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<cody-somerville> weeee
<Rinchen> ah
<Rinchen> so now we now
<Rinchen> er know
<Rinchen> ubottu
<viperhoot> heheh
<Rinchen> so we just need to find out who runs ubottu these days and report the problem
<Rinchen> I've sent a note to the fridge team to schedule all meetings, even local ones, in UTC only.
<viperhoot> hmm maybe the candidates consider that error in the hour
<viperhoot> :s
<cody-somerville> viperhoot, good point
 * cody-somerville needs to go catch a bus.
<viperhoot> cody-somerville, are you a member candidate ?
<gnomefreak> Rinchen: "we" know who runs the bot :) please ask in #ubuntu-ops
<gnomefreak> Rinchen: jussi01 "runs" the bot
<gnomefreak> Rinchen: ubottu updates every so often and if its added to fridge the bot will be updated, Cant remember how often but its fairly low intervals
<Rinchen> gnomefreak, yeah so it's TZ calc is off apparently
<gnomefreak> Rinchen: ah check with jussi01 or ask in -ops someone might beable to fix that
<Rinchen> gnomefreak, I'll pass that on to someone on the Fridge team.  I'd do it but I'm getting ready to drop Launchpad for the release. :-)
<Rinchen> thanks for the info
<gnomefreak> Rinchen: np :)_
<MagicFab> apparently mneptok is up for membership
 * mneptok wriggles uncomfortably
<MagicFab> I am here to prevent that
<Pici> hah
<nhaines> Hiya, everyone. :)
<j1mc> :)
<viperhoot> :D
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<RoAkSoAx> eff/clear
<nhaines> Greetings, Flannel.
<Flannel> Howdy Howdy
<nixternal> Everyone who is applying for membership, please have the following ready:
<nixternal>  * 3 brief paragraphs about yourself
<nixternal>  * Wiki page link(s)
<nixternal>  * Launchpad link
<nixternal>  * $250,000,000 to share with everyone in this channel!
<nixternal> we shall get started shortly
<nixternal> w/i43
<RoAkSoAx> viperhoot, go to bank ASAP
<nhaines> Can I take that in small bills?
<nixternal> that doesn't work
<n0rman> :)
<viperhoot> :)
<RoAkSoAx> xD
 * vorian waves
<sommer> hey all
<atoponce> hello
<santiago-ve> hey... 250.000.000?.. what if i only have 230.000.000
<nixternal> MootBot: you here?
<nixternal> :)
<n0rman> :P
<MagicFab> oh no, nixternal
<nixternal> oh no, MagicFab :)
<MagicFab> :)
<MagicFab> n0rman, link to your wikipage from your LP account seems broken
<n0rman> MagicFab: let me check :)
<mruiz> @schedule santiago
<ubottu> mruiz: Schedule for America/Santiago: Current meeting: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 09:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 08:00: MOTU | 31 May 08:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 12:00: LoCo Council
<atoponce> for the approvals of the meeting, we have:
<atoponce> atoponce, nixternal, vorian, effie_jayx and _MMA_
 * _MMA_ waves.
<n0rman> dont forget me :)
 * effie_jayx waves hello
<n0rman> im here :P
<atoponce> these will be issuing either a +1 or -1 on the membership apps
<viperhoot> o
<viperhoot> ok
<n0rman> MagicFab:  i fixed the link, check it :)
<nixternal> there are way to many people applying...I say we do like the CC and cancel this meeting :p
<atoponce> nixternal: heh
<RoAkSoAx> lol
<n0rman> :P
<nixternal> jeesh, there are so many people, that epiphany ran out of tabs
<cropalato> im here too
<mneptok> nixternal: we could be like OpenBSD and make people read 5 years of profane mailing list diatribes before addressing them politely.
<santiago-ve> lol
<nixternal> mneptok: one problem we have only been around for 3.5 :)
<nixternal> ok, everyone....lets get this bad boy started
<n0rman> :P
<nixternal> !!!!!!
<nixternal> #startmeeting
 * mneptok starts his engines
<nixternal> stupid bot!
<pedro_> just in time ;-)
<pedro_> hello all
<nixternal> [STARTMEETING]
<effie_jayx> nhaines: you're up :)
<viperhoot> :)
<nhaines> My name is Nathan Haines.  I've been an Ubuntu enthusiast for 3 years and a member of the California LoCo since they reformed last Autumn.
<nhaines> I became involved with Ubuntu in May 2005, when I realized that the project was serious, the community was friendly and strong, and the distro showed a lot of care and polish.  After 11 years of using Linux, I saw that Ubuntu could go very far and started advocating to friends, and filing bugs.
<nhaines> Now I am very active on the LoCo team: creating assets (name badges and so forth), running booths, organizing events, and giving presentations in front of audiences.  Through polite and thoughtful advocacy, I have worked to increase awareness of Free Software and Ubuntu to others.
<nhaines> My wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NathanHaines
<Seeker`> nixternal: sorry bout the bot, will try to fix it soon
<nhaines> My Launchpad profile: https://launchpad.net/~nhaines
<nixternal> Seeker`: no prob...thanks :)
 * BotenAnna edits nhaines' wiki with the facts he doesn't want you to know! :D
<MagicFab> all: meeting minutes / people up for membership are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<jcastro> I've observed nhaines run the Ubuntu booth at Lugradio Live USA and spent some time talking to him - I'd like to throw in 2 cents for a recommendation for membership!
<atoponce> jcastro: thx
<nhaines> Oh, not in the canned speech, but I was at SCaLE6x in February and at LRL in April as well.
<Flannel> I am Neal Bussett, LoCo Lead of the California LoCo team, here to talk about Nathana.
<Flannel> I have nothing but good things to say about Nathan, he has been an integral part of our LoCo team; we have organized and participated in a number of events together.  I donât believe weâve done anything significant that he hasnât played a key role in.
<nixternal> hehe, looks good....really diggin' that Ubuntu polo :)
<Flannel> On a number of occasions he has taken over when I was unable to attend.  One of these was LUG Radio Live, which he manned single-handedly and did a wonderful job.
<Flannel> He is a fine person and deserves Ubuntu Membership.  I know we'll see many good things because of him in the future.
<effie_jayx> nhaines,  sounds like you have been having a blast at events
<nhaines> nixternal: hehe, thanks.  :)
<Flannel> Er, talk about Nathan.  No idea who Nathana is.
<Technoviking> evening all
<nhaines> The events have been awesome.  Location permitting, I bring my 3yo godson Michael along to do the GCompris presentations.
<Technoviking> sorry I'm a couple minutes late
<atoponce> Technoviking: welcome. :)
<vorian> a lot of work with PyRoom i see, excellent
<rolando-ve> hi everyone
<nixternal> nhaines: how much packaging have you done? anything other than PyRoom (which is a hit I heard)
<MagicFab> rolando-ve, :)
<nhaines> PyRoom was my chance to jump in on a fresh project and help give some direction regarding project management and Bazaar branches.
<nhaines> nixternal: I have only packaged PyRoom (and a couple personal things to test it out) but I hope to get PyRoom into intrepid and see if there's anything else I can help out with.
<atoponce> nhaines: have you started with motu, or looking to go that route?
<neskiem> hello everyone
<BotenAnna> I'm not sure what-all my place as something of an outsider here is, but nhaines brought me back to Ubuntu and sold me on Python. He's pretty rad and knowing him irl, he practically eats and breathes Ubuntu :)
<nhaines> I probably won't get so involved with MOTU, but I am going through REVU.  :)
<nixternal> have I deleted one of your packages on REVU yet? :)
<nhaines> nixternal: hehe, no, it's not suitable even for deletion yet, but I know it'll get there soon.  ;)
<nixternal> jeesh, Cali sure has a lot of free software events going on
<nhaines> It's a big hit on my PPA, though.
<effie_jayx> nhaines,  so how do you plan to further your participation in the ubuntu project?
<atoponce> all: Technoviking is part of the board, and will be approving/rejecting apps as well. we now have a body of 6
<nhaines> I've found that public speeking is a huge amount of fun, and so I intend to continue doing events and will start signing up for presentations.
<nhaines> I'm also working with California LoCo to see how we can handle more installfests.
<effie_jayx> nhaines,  sounds cool... advocacy is definetelly fun
<effie_jayx> +1 from me
<_MMA_> +1
<atoponce> i see a lot of sustained advocacy, as well as sustained activity on launchpad
<atoponce> +1 here
<vorian> +1 based on LoCo activity and overwhelming support
<pedro_> count a +1 from me too
<nixternal> +1
<vorian> congrats nhaines :)
<jcastro> \o/
<atoponce> nhaines: welcome aboard
<nixternal> oh noes, it is jcastro
<nhaines> Thanks guys, it means a lot to me.  :)  I'll just continue doing what I've been doing.
<rolando-ve> ï»¿nhaines Congratulations!
<nickellery> congrats nhaines!
<nhaines> Thanks for making it on short notice, Jorge.  :)
<nixternal> congrats and welcome nhaines!!!
<viperhoot> wiii wiii
<Technoviking> +1 for me
<BotenAnna> congrats nhaines :D
<ubuntuser> welcome nhaines
<santiago-ve> congratulations nhaines!
<RoAkSoAx> congrats nhaines
<nhaines> :D
<nixternal> jcastro: when you speak to jono next, tell him I want those pics from Penguicon he got from the pub
<viperhoot> congrats nhaines !!!!
<MagicFab> atoponce, If there is time (end of meeting/approvals) I'd like to comment a possible process to evaluate memberships in spanish in the future
<effie_jayx> is Asommer around?
<ubuntuser> MagicFab, hehehe
<atoponce> MagicFab: sounds good
<nixternal> oh Adam Sommer, your turn
<sommer> Hello, I'm Adam Sommer, I work as a Linux Sysadmin for a small college in North Carolina.
<rolando-ve> MagicFab: Cool
<sommer> I've been helping to update the Server Guide for the Gutsy and Hardy releases.  In doing so I've worked closely with both the Ubuntu Doc Team and Server Team.
<nhaines> Thanks, all!  I'm sticking around but good luck to everyone else.  I'll be here cheering everyone on.  :)
<sommer> My plan is to help keep the Server Guide up to date for each release and continue to help test the Server Edition.  Also, I'd like to learn more about packaging to hopefully help solve more bugs instead of just reporting them.
<sommer> wiki link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Asommer
<sommer> if that's in the right order :)
<nixternal> I can provide some insight on just how much sommer has improved Ubuntu Documentation by working on the server guide, great job all around there!!!
<sommer> nixternal: thanks
<sommer> it was good times, heh
<nixternal> actually, I think you are the only doc committer who is not an Ubuntu member iirc
<atoponce> wow. i see very good sustained contributions here.
<Technoviking> just consulted the server guide earlier today, great work on that
<nixternal> ya, and for a while as well
<mneptok> sommer: please keep in close touch with nijaba. i'm sure he appreciates your efforts.
<nixternal> sommer: what are your plans for the future of Ubuntu?
<j1mc> Adam helped me out on the Xubuntu docs quite a bit.  he did great work on the server docs, especially for the hardy cycle.
<sommer> nixternal: for intrepid the big thing is Samba
<nixternal> are you heading towards development at all?
<sommer> nixternal: ya, I'd like to... time permitting that is
<nixternal> sommer: no freakin' doubt! get it straight in Kubuntu while you are at it, and there is a cookie for ya :)
<effie_jayx> ok, some good work and lots of people to back it up...
<effie_jayx> +1
<atoponce> +1 for solid foundation of work
<_MMA_> +1
<Technoviking> +1
<nixternal> ya, +1 from me as well...he has helped the doc team and the server team tremendously
<vorian> +1 :)
<nixternal> congrats and welcome sommer!!!
<pedro_> keep the docs coming +1 from me
<effie_jayx> congrats sommer
<Technoviking> congrats sommer
<sommer> awesome, thanks all I appreciate it :-)
<ubuntuser> welcome too, sommer
<atoponce> sommer: congrats
<effie_jayx> sommer,  keep up the great work
<RoAkSoAx> so i guess i'm next
<nhaines> congrats, sommer.  :)
<santiago-ve> sommer, congratulations
<rolando-ve> ï»¿sommer: wellcome
<nixternal> RoAkSoAx: come on with your badself :)
<pedro_> RoAkSoAx: you're the next one
<effie_jayx> RoAkSoAx is up next
<viperhoot> congrats sommer :)
<nickellery> congrats sommer!!!!!
<RoAkSoAx> Hi all!! My name is Andres Rodriguez. I'm From Arequipa - PerÃº and I'm a BS in Systems Engineer. I'm a member of the Peruvian LoCo Team.
<RoAkSoAx> My LP: https://launchpad.net/~andreserl
<RoAkSoAx> My Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/4nDr3s
<RoAkSoAx> My contributions to Ubuntu are:
<RoAkSoAx> - Translations to Spanish (Official Spanish Translator since 2007-12-02, but started translating in Dapper and Edgy).
<RoAkSoAx> - Give support in #ubuntu-es (I'm a channel OP since 2008-03-06), and occasionally i give support in #ubuntu
<RoAkSoAx> - Promote Ubuntu and work in the LoCo TeAm, where I'm one of the 5 Council Members (More Info for those who speak spanish: http://www.ubuntu-pe.org/council).
<RoAkSoAx> - I have also taught courses about Ubuntu at my University's Informatics Institute (when i was a student) and gave talks About Ubuntu...
<RoAkSoAx>   The most recent talk was at FLISOL, where I presented Hardy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26129077@N04/2452641978/in/pool-aqpglug (I'm the one with the water bottle)
<RoAkSoAx> nd in the near future, i would like to help more in MOTU stuff and maybe someday become a MOTU Member. For that, I've done a couple merges already that have been accepted and reported a couple of syncs.
<RoAkSoAx> Merges
<RoAkSoAx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virt-viewer/+bug/227073
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227073 in virt-viewer "Please merge virt-viewer 0.0.3-2 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<RoAkSoAx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-tools/+bug/229052
<RoAkSoAx> Syncs:
<RoAkSoAx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abuse-frabs/+bug/225029
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229052 in alsa-tools "Please merge alsa-tools 1.0.16-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<RoAkSoAx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-edu/+bug/227968
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225029 in abuse-frabs "Please sync abuse-frabs 2.11-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227968 in debian-edu "Please sync debian-edu 0.831 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released]
<RoAkSoAx> I've also gave helped no0tic on how to do a merge, by showing him how i did mine, here is the log: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/05/06/%23ubuntu-motu.html
<nixternal> I can attest to RoAkSoAx rockin' out in MOTU world helping where he can and learning constantly
<effie_jayx> RoAkSoAx,  great work... on MOTU
<RoAkSoAx> thanks nixternal effie_jayx :)
<MagicFab> RoAkSoAx, why is 6.10 listed as your current distribution on your wiki ?
<nixternal> RoAkSoAx: I am hoping you are planning on increasing your bug work (5-a-day anybody?) with your interest in MOTU...you can definitely help out a ton there
<RoAkSoAx> MagicFab, not updated :S Im using HH right now
<effie_jayx> I can back his work as an op in #ubuntu-es, he is working hard to keep troll at bay
<pedro_> RoAkSoAx:  I've heard of your good work on ubuntu-pe, congrats
<atoponce> RoAkSoAx: do you have a link to your forums profile?
<nixternal> effie_jayx: so that means he keeps banning you :P
<effie_jayx> well shall we vote on it?
<RoAkSoAx> nixternal, yes im about to start learning packaging from scratach, havent have time this past 2 weeks cuz finishing my Thesis to become Engineer
<RoAkSoAx> thanks pedro_
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  not quite yet ;)
<nixternal> rock on RoAkSoAx!
<Technoviking> +1 for me, great body of work
<effie_jayx> +1
<nixternal> +1 from me
<RoAkSoAx> atoponce, http://www.ubuntu-pe.org/user/464/track i mainly moderate
<effie_jayx> anymore botes..?
<_MMA_> +1
<vorian> +1
<pedro_> +1 from me
 * atoponce is still looking
<effie_jayx> votes
<g3o> +1
<RoAkSoAx> thanks guys, really appreciate it :D:D
<cody-somerville> +0 from me.
<rolando-ve> ï»¿RoAkSoAx Congrats
<atoponce> but, majority is present, so, congrats RoAkSoAx! :)
<viperhoot> congrats RoAkSoAx
<viperhoot> !!!
<MagicFab> Muy bien RoAkSoAx :)
<nixternal> congrats and welcome RoAkSoAx!!!
<nhaines> Lots of great work, RoAkSoAx.  Congratulations!
<pedro_> felicitaciones RoAkSoAx
<effie_jayx> felicidades RoAkSoAx
<nickellery> congrats!
<xander21c_> Congrats:)
<ubuntuser> :)
<santiago-ve> felipe_, RoAkSoAx
<nixternal> viperhoot: your turn
<viperhoot> I'm Dante DÃ­az from Cajamarca PerÃº, contact and member of the Peruvian LoCo Team and Council, and have been involved difusion since 2005, and then i focused myself on Ubuntu, i have gave many talks in my university.
<ubuntuser> One more to Ubuntu family
<viperhoot> My main contribution to ubuntu is  work with the ubuntu community in PerÃº, i'm the admin of the website and of the resources that we used (forums, launchpad group, CDs distributionâ¦) , also i help to ubuntu users in the mail list and irc chanel, i'm also participating in the translation of applications to the spanish from launchpad.
<viperhoot> i'm also interested in make ubuntu community better and nicer for starters in PerÃº
<RoAkSoAx> thanks rolando-ve atoponce viperhoot MagicFab nixternal nhaines pedro_ effie_jayx santiago-ve
<nixternal> south american invasion tonight!
<viperhoot> My LP page is: https://launchpad.net/~dante
<viperhoot> and my Wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanteDiaz
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  about time
<MagicFab> Latinos rock!
<viperhoot> MagicFab, :D
<RoAkSoAx> i can certify viperhoot's great work, specilly on the website, since he is the main maintainer and designer... thanks to him is that we have a website:D:D
<n0rman> :)
<viperhoot> thanks RoAkSoAx
<ubuntuser> yes, MagicFab .. ;)
<effie_jayx> viperhoot,  How's MOTU work coming?
<effie_jayx> are you close to starting ?
<nixternal> viperhoot: any plans for helping out with bug triage in the future? (ie. making the south american teams rock by you all joing the 5-a-day)
<viperhoot> i'm not a motu yep, but is my long term goal
<viperhoot> i'm so interestedin motu
<viperhoot> nxvl (member) help me in motu
<cody-somerville> viperhoot, What is the biggest difficulty you've faced as a leader in your loco team?
<cody-somerville> viperhoot, What can be done to make your job easier?
<effie_jayx> viperhoot,  fantastic... I am sure you will pick up ropes quick :D
<viperhoot> mopderator en the web
<pedro_> viperhoot: what's your next short goal for the peruvian loco team?
<nixternal> hehe, if that's the biggest difficulty, then the Peruvian LoCo must totally rock!
<viperhoot> pedro_, Become more involved with spanish translation/documentation.
<viperhoot> an right , mecome the peruvian team approved
<cody-somerville> viperhoot, What can be done to make your job easier?
<atoponce> viperhoot: what have you contributed to launchpad specifically? (not the projects hosted on it)
<nixternal> viperhoot: any plans for helping out with bug triage in the future? (ie. making the south american teams rock by you all joing the 5-a-day)
<effie_jayx> viperhoot,  how long have you been contact?
<nixternal> looks like answers (isn't that what the ? means?)
<viperhoot> nixternal, not at this time, i'm more involved with translations
<viperhoot> and solve problems with ubuntu users in web
<nixternal> that I can see... viperhoot have you done any Kubuntu translations?
<nixternal> hehe, sneak that in there
<atoponce> nixternal: if we ever meet, i will switch you to gnome. :)
<Technoviking> nixternal: ;)
<nixternal> atoponce: never
<pedro_> haha
<viperhoot> nixternal, i'm center in ubuntu
<mneptok> nixternal: i'm trying to translate KDE4 into "something usable"
<effie_jayx> ok he get +1 from me
<viperhoot> i'm use only ubuntu
<effie_jayx> he is the contact of the team and that means hard work
<atoponce> i like what i see in regards to translations and launchpad activity. +1 here
<nixternal> ya, he has darn close to 3 years of sustained contributions that I have gone back and looked at
<nixternal> +1 from me
<Technoviking> +1 for me
<_MMA_> +1
<cody-somerville> +1 for good loco team work and for sustained contributions to translations.
<viperhoot> yes, basically i help ubuntu users, but more for web :)
<effie_jayx> pedro_, ?
<vorian> +1 based on solid LoCo leadership
<viperhoot> :)
<effie_jayx> vorian,  and difficult shoes to fill ;)
<atoponce> viperhoot: that's a majority. welcome aboard
<vorian> aye :)
<pedro_> +1 as effie_jayx said being a loco contact is always a hard job and he's doing a good work on translations
<ubuntuser> :)
<effie_jayx> felicidades viperhoot
<vorian> congrats viperhoot
<nixternal> congrats and welcome viperhoot!!!
<viperhoot> nixternal, Technoviking _MMA_ cody-somerville thanks !!!
<RoAkSoAx> congrats viperhoot
<effie_jayx> next up ogasawara
<viperhoot> pedro_ thanks !!
<nhaines> Congratulations, viperhoot!  :D
<nixternal> viperhoot: no, thank you!
<pedro_> bienvenido a bordo viperhoot
<ogasawara> yipee
<vorian> no thanks for vorian
<santiago-ve> great viperhoot!
<ubuntuser> one more brother!
<Technoviking> viperhoot: congrats
<viperhoot> hugs to all! :D
<ogasawara> Hi :) My name is Leann Ogasawara.
<vorian> :P
<viperhoot> vorian, you too :P
<ogasawara> I work for Canonical as a Quality Assurance Engineer and my primary focus is on kernel bugs.  There still exists a lot of open kernel bugs and I'd like to see that number come down!
<ogasawara> I'm also involved in other general QA related areas such as performing SRU verifications, participating in weekly Bug Days, ISO Testing, and working on developing projects which have been generated from Ubuntu specs.
<ogasawara> wiki page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeannOgasawara
<ogasawara> launchpad profile:  https://edge.launchpad.net/~leannogasawara
<nixternal> ogasawara: how the heck did you rack up so much bug karma in such a little time? has Mark given you a vacation yet? jeesh
<Technoviking> over 12000 karma, wow
<mneptok> ogasawara rocks! she's equally responsive to bugs i bring her from commercial support customers, community members, and GNOME contributors.
<_MMA_> hehe
<nixternal> no doubt
<effie_jayx> ogasawara,  impressive karma
<ogasawara> there's a lot of kernel bug out there :)
<pedro_> hahaha
<pedro_> she's great ;-)
<cody-somerville> ogasawara, Did I meet you at UDS?
<nixternal> I can't believe that bug karma in such a short period of time
<atoponce> this is an impressive application. lots of work, solid karma... what to pick on? :)
<effie_jayx> fastrack approval guys
<nixternal> hell, I have been around here for years and can't match that :)
<ogasawara> cody-somerville: briefly in the hotel bar
<mneptok> (not to mention she doesn't instantly punch me when we see each other at events. this is a very difficult task.)
<nixternal> ogasawara: who is your favorite baseball team?
<pedro_> come on...
<nixternal> only question I could come up with :p
<pedro_> haha
<effie_jayx> +1
<_MMA_> :)
<pedro_> totally +1
<_MMA_> +1
<Technoviking> I would +1 punching mneptok
<mneptok> see?
<nixternal> no doubt, +1 from me
<Technoviking> +1 for ogasawara
<atoponce> +1 +1 +1. rock solid all around. good kernel work
<vorian> +1 :)
<atoponce> well done ogasawara
<effie_jayx> ogasawara,  welcome aboard   and keep that kernel rocking
<pedro_> congrats and welcome leann!
<nhaines> Congrats, ogasawara!  :)
<nixternal> now I know where to go with Kernel issues :)
<ogasawara> thanks everyone!
<nixternal> congrats and welcome ogasawara!!!
<vorian> congrats ogasawara
<effie_jayx> Pretto  is up next
<ubuntuser> Pretto is travelling... :(
<jwendell> pretto misunderstood the date...
<effie_jayx> right
<pedro_> sigh..
<effie_jayx> differed to next meeting then
<MagicFab> ohhhhh I missed ogasawara - well welcome anyways!
<mneptok> cropalato ... ?
<nixternal> ok, we should have a meeting next week so he can join us then
<effie_jayx> cropalato
<effie_jayx> you are up
<vorian> hmm
<ubuntuser> skip him... because he at in the classroom right now.. ok?
<vorian> neskiem, you're up!
<neskiem> Hello/Weytk-p, My name is Neskie Manuel.  I'm Secwepemc from BC.  I'm planning on improving North American Indigenous language support for Debian/Ubuntu.
<ubuntuser> ok nixternal ?
<nixternal> roger that
<neskiem> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Manny14
<ubuntuser> ;)
<neskiem> LP: https://launchpad.net/~neskiem
<bryce> ogasawara: congrats!
<neskiem> My plan is to improve language support and get keyboards for http://languagegeek.com translated into xkb layouts.  I've pacakged ttf-lg-aboriginal. It looks like the only font that can display Cherokee  script.   I'm also using First Voices http://firstvoices.ca to create locales.
<neskiem> Advocating adoption of Ubuntu amnogst First Nations community for it's great L10N support and ability to help with language revitalization.
<cody-somerville> neskiem, Whats involved in managing the Ubuntu Secwepemc Team?
<pedro_> neskiem: for how long have you been working on the translations?
<neskiem> We are translating Ubuntu into Secwpeemctsin
<neskiem> I've been working on this since January
<neskiem> but I'm not fluent so part of this work is learning Secwepemctsin myself.
<mneptok> secwpeemctsin = shuswap?
<cody-somerville> neskiem, How many strings have you been able to translate thus far?
<neskiem> I've only been able to translate single word strings like New, Help, etc...
<cody-somerville> neskiem, Do you have anybody here today to endorse your application? Who have you been working with in the community?
<neskiem> Most of my work has been to create a Secwepemc (shs) locale, keyboard and add an orthography file  shs.orth to fontconfig.
<neskiem> No.  I don't
<neskiem> I was trying to get Nicolas Spalinger here from the font packaging team
<nixternal> neskiem: how much work is involved in creating the locale, keyboard stuff, and the orthography file?
<nixternal> are you the only one doing this?
<neskiem> It looks like it
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<neskiem> I look up the characters needed on the Language Geek site and figure out a sane layout to be used in xkb-data
<atoponce> neskiem: how many languages do you speak?
<MagicFab> neskiem, if help is needed, I can assist - we started doing something similar for Wayuunaiki in Colombia (with ubuntu-ve) - now stalled.
<nixternal> neskiem: that is some tedious work, xkb-data is horrid
<neskiem> I speak French, English, and a bit of my native langauge Secwepemctsin
<mneptok> +++++ PLEASE PRE-LOAD LP PAGES! LP GOING DOWN FOR AN UPGRADE IN 20 MINUTES! +++++
<mneptok> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<nixternal> mneptok: woot, I already have them all loaded :)
<neskiem> well i've found my way around xkb-data and learned the patch systems
<effie_jayx> mneptok,  thanks
<atoponce> mneptok: preloaded
<atoponce> neskiem: have you helped with french translations?
<cody-somerville> neskiem, It seems like you've made an excellent start but for me to give you my vote I'd like to see you get more involved with the community and work on getting some more translations done first. Okay? :)
<neskiem> I know i've been kind of secluded  and need to get my work documented and out there
<neskiem> Before any Indigenous languages can be supported in Ubuntu they need keyboard layouts, font support, and Orthogrpahy files into fontconfig.  Those are my future plans in Ubuntu.
<atoponce> neskiem: i would like to see more sustained contributions in your translating work as well
<j1mc> any other comments?
<atoponce> neskiem: are you active on the forums?
 * vorian is still reading
 * nixternal too
 * nixternal sees Kubuntu documentation translations :)
<neskiem> No I'm not so active on the forums.
<atoponce> neskiem: what progress have you made to get the community involved with your translations?
<neskiem> Chief Atham the local langauge immersion school has agreed to work with me on translations. As well as the local School Distrcit 73 in Kamloops, which uses Linux throughout the whole school district
<nixternal> neskiem: are you a Kubuntu or Ubuntu user? how do you see yourself helping the system you use continue to prosper?
<neskiem> I want to see Ubuntu being used for language revitalization so that people can use Ubuntu in Ojibway, Ktunaxa, Mi'kmaw, Cherokee, Navajo, etc...
<pedro_> ok, votes?
 * nixternal notes that j1mc will be next so he can get this over with and head home from work, plus make sure his lappy battery doesn't die
<neskiem> This will allow these langauges to propser as well as get some devout users who can't use Windows/OS X in those languages
<cody-somerville> neskiem, I think thats a very noble goal I look forward to approving you in the future :)
<neskiem> cody, thanks.
<nixternal> I have to agree at this time. I like what I have seen thus far, but I would like to see a bit more involvement with translations and community work, and then I would have no problem approving membership in the future...great job though so far!
<vorian> neskiem: yes, please keep up your wonderful work :)
<atoponce> neskiem: i'd like to see more. please keep your motivations high, and your reach broad in the community.
<effie_jayx> I agree with nickellery
<nixternal> neskiem: if you need any MOTU or sponsorship help with your packages, please do not hesitate to message me for some help
<nickellery> effie_jayx, you mean nixternal :)
<cody-somerville> Technoviking, would you like to weigh in before we move on?
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  so j1mc up next considering his situation?
<nhaines> Keep up the good work, neskiem!  Ubuntu always needs more translators.  :D
<nixternal> yes, j1mc you are up
<Technoviking> neskiem: I looking forward to seeing you again, you have a great start
<j1mc> Hi everyone, My name is Jim Campbell, and I am most closely involved with the Xubuntu project, focusing primarily on documentation and wiki work, and the Ubuntu Chicago local community team.  I've been contributing to Xubuntu since the Feisty release cycle, and have been involved with the Loco team since late 2006.
<neskiem> thanks everyone
<j1mc> My wiki page is here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/j1mc
<j1mc> and my launchpad page is here:  https://launchpad.net/~jwcampbell
 * nixternal will kick you if you don't admit to running Ubuntu Chicago
<nixternal> you took over my job, let it be known or else!
<cody-somerville> j1mc, What has been the biggest obstacle you've faced as a contributor to the Xubuntu derivative?
<j1mc> My primary plan is to keep the Xubuntu docs accurate and up to date, to also lead the Xubuntu wiki maintenance.   Additionally, I'd like to do some project management/volunteer coordination work for the Xubuntu website, and to see what can be done to further develop Xubuntu artwork.  I also want to make sure that things stay moving with the ubuntu-chicago loco team in terms of knowledge-sharing and other projects
<nixternal> there we go :)
<cody-somerville> \o/
<sommer> I can say that Jim has contributed a lot of great content to the Xubuntu docs
 * ubuntuser is Xfce translator!
<j1mc> my biggest obstacle has just been lack of manpower, and shaky contributions - too many starts and stops from contributors
<ubuntuser> ;)
<j1mc> that, and just learning all of the tools.
<cody-somerville> j1mc, How do you feel about the direction Xubuntu is taking?
<mneptok> j1mc: i'll give you a handful of Raisinets if you say your biggest obstacle is cody-somerville ... O:)
<atoponce> look at that karma
<nixternal> hahahaha, you know it is
 * eddieftw wants to kick nixternal  for that comment ;p
<nixternal> j1mc: ya, get on 5-a-day and join the chicago team, you too eddieftw!
<j1mc> i think xubuntu is going in a good direction in terms of being more organized.  i think it'll attract more people.
<atoponce> j1mc: are you still active with the mobile side of things, or sticking mainly with xfce?
<effie_jayx> j1mc,  how do you see your contributions in the near future?
<vorian> j1mc: is that a wheaties box?
<j1mc> i'm sticking mainly with xfce
<nixternal> lol
<j1mc> vorian: yes
<vorian> j1mc: excellent :)
<nixternal> j1mc: will you represent Xubuntu at BarCamp Chicago in next month?
<j1mc> vorian: near future - wiki and website.
<nixternal> ya, I can speeeeeeek
<j1mc> nixternal: no specific plans, but do want to be there.
<cody-somerville> j1mc, I think you're a shining example of what we're looking for in Ubuntu member applicants. +1 from me.
<eddieftw> can i suggest a +1 from everyone?
<effie_jayx> +1 for his xubuntu work... keep it coming
<atoponce> j1mc: i agree with cody-somerville. this is a +1
<eddieftw> without j1mc, ubutnu chicago wouldn't be where it's at
<Technoviking> +1 for me
<eddieftw> since he gives me and the rest of the teams rides all the time
<nixternal> ditto what cody-somerville said! I have known j1mc for a couple of years now and he is absolutly awesome to work with and has done a ton of LoCo work as well as revamped everything xubuntu doc wise
<nixternal> +1
<vorian> +1 based on excellent work (and the wheaties box)
<sommer> throws a +1
<pedro_> +1 from me too, keep up the good work
<nixternal> hahaha, wheaties
<j1mc> thanks, all.  :)
<vorian> congrats j1mc!
<nixternal> congrats and welcome j1mc! about darn time!
<nhaines> Congrats, j1mc!  :D
<atoponce> j1mc: now go home and be with your family! :)
<j1mc> haha.  yeay!
<sommer> congrats j1mc o//
<cody-somerville> Long over due congratz j1mc :)
<nixternal> j1mc has been trying to get to a membership meeting now for over a year :)
<j1mc> sommer: party on
<rolando-ve> ï»¿j1mc Cool
 * eddieftw pops some champaign for j1mc 
<j1mc> thanks, all.  :)
<j1mc> my batter has 10 minutes left, so i will have to go now.
<vorian> long overdue, i'm sure :)
<santiago-ve> j1mc, congratulations
<j1mc> talk to you all later.  :)
<nixternal> Chris Gregan, you around?
<mneptok> eddieftw: unless you're also popping Urbana, it's "champagne" ;)
<eddieftw> oh noes!
<cody-somerville> Alrighty!
<pedro_> it seems that he's not around
<effie_jayx> back in order, cgregan is next
<santiago-ve> O.o
<effie_jayx> next
<mneptok> eddieftw: personally, i like the idea of you launching a first strike against your southern neighbors :)
<nixternal> awalton__: you around?
<awalton__> nixternal, right here
<effie_jayx> awalton__,  you are up then
<awalton__> oh wow, tonight already?
<awalton__> thought it was tomorrow night.
<awalton__> Alright, I guess I can go ahead and though.
<effie_jayx> awalton__, well you are here now... ;)
<awalton__> My name is Andrew Walton, though I typically go as awalton/Walton on both the internet and on IRC
<mneptok> awalton__: others may be ready if you need a few minutes....
<awalton__> mneptok, I should be fine, I just didn't have any text prepared..
<awalton__> If someone wants to go first they're welcome though
<effie_jayx> ok
<nixternal> kirkland: you around?
<kirkland> nixternal: yep
<kirkland> My name is Dustin Kirkland.  I'm a member of Canonical's Ubuntu Server Team.
<kirkland> My objective is to develop, extend, package, and support the software that comprises Ubuntu's Server, making it easy to use and secure.
<nixternal> south american and a canonical invasion tonight
<kirkland> My objective is to develop, extend, package, and support the software that comprises Ubuntu's Server, making it easy to use and secure.
<effie_jayx> wow
<kirkland> I am currently working on encrypted ~/Private directories in each user's home, encrypting swap space by default, and swapfiles supported in the installer.
<kirkland> I am also working with Ubuntu ISV Partners such as IBM, HP, Sun, and Dell.
<kirkland> My wiki page is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DustinKirkland
<kirkland> My Launchpad page is: https://launchpad.net/~kirkland
<kirkland> I have also created some useful tools:
<kirkland> http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html
<kirkland> http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
<kirkland> http://ubuntu.dustinkirkland.com/manpages/
<nixternal> thought for a second you were from chicago
<kirkland> nixternal: Austin, TX :-)
<kirkland> same timezone, though
<kirkland> and I'm a Cubs fan
<nixternal> w00t \o/
<atoponce> heh
<sommer> I can say that kirkland has also done some cool work on developing a better way to search the Ubuntu docs
 * eddieftw urges a -1 for kirkland :p
<nixternal> sommer: how so?
<nixternal> and why am I just not hearing about this? :)
<kirkland> sommer: thanks, yeah, http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html
<cropalato> hi all, sorry i was out. can i present me?
<bryce> +1 for kirkland
<mathiaz> I'd like to add that Dustin has been doing an excellent work within the Ubuntu Server Team. He tackled some nasty bugs with ldap, merges diffcult packages (php5).
<nixternal> cropalato: wait until we call you...we had to skip over you, but promise to get to you
<sommer> nixternal: yep that's the link :)
<atoponce> cropalato: we'll let you know
<vorian> cropalato: after kirkland is done
<nixternal> oh man, if you have bryce supporting you, I am scared to vote now
<effie_jayx> I say +1
<nixternal> ya, +1 from me as well
<cody-somerville> +1 for sustained and significant contribution to the server team.
<Technoviking> +1 for me
<effie_jayx> outstanding work
<vorian> +1 :)
<pedro_> +1 here
<bryce> ~/Private sounds pretty cool
<Technoviking> Ubunru Server rocks!!!!
<rolando-ve> kirkland: nice Job!, Congrats
<atoponce> as a linux instructor and admin, i can appreciate the progress that ubuntu-server is making. +1 for obvious contributions
<LaRoza> Sorry for being late
<vorian> LaRoza: we'll call you when you are up :)
<nhaines> Congrats, kirkland!
<nickellery> congrats kirkland!!!
<kirkland> thanks guys, bryce, mathiaz, sommer
<pedro_> congrats and welcome kirkland
<bryce> kirkland: congrats :-)
<sommer> congrats kirkland
<nixternal> damn, I closed out cropalato's lp page
<mathiaz> kirkland: congrats :)
<pedro_> LaRoza: just in time, you're up next
<nhaines> nixternal: work offline mode and History > Recently Closed Tabs!  :)
<Technoviking> nixternal: I just closed FF:(
<cropalato> nixternal, is it me time?
<bryce> launchpad is down right now too :-/
<m13> <<<just regular user here droped in accidentaly , but +10 to all of you guys
<santiago-ve> how long will LP be off?
<mneptok> santiago-ve: 90m or so
<Technoviking> I would like to say that LaRoza is one the most active moderators on the Ubuntu Forums
<mneptok> (120 is scheduled, but it may well be faster)
<Technoviking> LaRoza: what is your post count
<LaRoza> Let me check
<lukehasnoname> lots
<lukehasnoname> I can vouch for LaRoza's helpfulness
<LaRoza> 9,975
<LaRoza> I expect to hit 10000 tonight
 * Technoviking faints
<LaRoza> I can, on a good stretch, get over 100 in a single session
<pedro_> wow that's impressive
<mneptok> LaRoza: are you locked in a monastery with only 802.11 and a candle or soemthing?
<LaRoza> (If I don't mess around in the Cafe and OPP...)
<lukehasnoname> It ridiculous
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, what exactly do you post about?
<LaRoza> 6https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaRoza
<LaRoza> (Sorry keyboard troubles here)
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, Can you give us a few examples of your rest posts?
<LaRoza> Tech support, Programming, Ubuntu, and other Linux distros
<kirkland> LaRoza must have worn out his keyboard posting :-P
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, links?
<LaRoza> To my posts?
<cody-somerville> Yes. I'd like to see a few examples.
<LaRoza> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39
<vorian> LaRoza is a wonderful staffer with consistent support for quite some time now
<LaRoza> (That is the forum page, but my posts are in the stickies and in many of the threads)
<effie_jayx> LaRoza,  can we say your contribution is strictly oriented to forums?
<LaRoza> No, I am also using Intrepid and going to help test the CD images once they get out
<nixternal> 'Thanked 685 Time in 557 Posts' - whoa, that is impressive
<effie_jayx> LaRoza,  that's great
<LaRoza> I also give out Ubunt and support for it in real life
<LaRoza> In fact, I get requests from people I don't know after they see someone I do know with Ubuntu
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, So how have you *contributed* to Ubuntu exactly?
<vorian> +1 from me based on outstanding support in the forums, and wonderful staffing werk
<_ZeuZ_> Hi! Hope I'm not late...
<Technoviking> cody-somerville: by helping users with questions on the forums
<LaRoza> I have contribued money once (I am not sure what you are asking)
<_ZeuZ_> Is the reunion still on? Or am I late?
<effie_jayx> +1 on his forum work ... it is a big job
<pedro_> based on your good work on the forums a +1 from me also
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, What forums do you moderate?
<LaRoza> ubuntuforums.org
<Technoviking> +1 for me
<cody-somerville> excuse me, I'm not entirely familiar with how the system there works.
<LaRoza> The official ubuntu forums
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, You're a moderator for all the forums at ubuntuforums.org?
<LaRoza> Hold on, I will get a link for you
<LaRoza> Yes, except the staff room
<atoponce> 1 year of sustained forums work, with almost 10,000 posts. i'd say that qualifies for membership from me. +1
<_ZeuZ_> Well, guess I'm just gonna shout it... I submitted to the mailing list a script for QoS (Traffic Throthling and shapping) for make it easy for novel users, and I wanted you guys to hitme with opinions, and lukily, after "completing" the work, include it in ubuntu-server...
<_ZeuZ_> Has anybody had time to review it?
<vorian> cody-somerville: yes, he's one of the select few who moderate a community of over 500,000 members
<LaRoza> http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=about
<mneptok> _ZeuZ_: you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, How often do you have to wear your moderator hat?
<_ZeuZ_> mneptok, Ouch... ITBA took my time... University is too much for a 17 years old boy...
<LaRoza> What does that mean?
<LaRoza> I do not typicall post as a moderator
<LaRoza> But I do spend a lot of time removing spam like all the others
<mneptok> _ZeuZ_: i imagine you want to be in #ubuntu-server
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, How often do you have to use your moderator position? Like, how many hours a day would you say you spend "moderating" the forum?
<Technoviking> the forums would not be the same without LaRoza
<_ZeuZ_> mneptok, They told me to come to the meeting, so we could give it an eye at the eyes of the members...
<LaRoza> cody-somerville: I am a forum member and moderator at the same time
<LaRoza> On the forum, I can be on for hours
<_ZeuZ_> (this was, a month or so ago)
<_ZeuZ_> until now, I haven't had enough time...
<_ZeuZ_> finals on my way...
<nixternal> honestly, the forums work is amazing obviously, however I would like to see more sustained contributions to Ubuntu outside of the forums (ie. 0 karma)
<vorian> sometimes i think LaRoza is on the forums 24/7
<LaRoza> vorian: That is somewhat true
<effie_jayx> that is great work then ...
<cody-somerville> I would also like to see more sustained contribution outside of the forum.
<cody-somerville> But I think it looks like the forum work is awesome :)
<LaRoza> At the moment, I am unemployed and waiting to go back to school in July
<LaRoza> cody-somerville: Free one on one tech support?
<mneptok> _ZeuZ_: you are currently interrupting an ongoing meeting with each inputline. please refrain, and check with the folks in #ubuntu-server on how to address your issue.
<LaRoza> Free disks to people in other countries?
<LaRoza> Installing and configuring systems for people with Ubuntu
<LaRoza> Helping my college with using Ubuntu?
<_ZeuZ_> mneptok, Ok, it was a contribution to all ubunters, as a Debian user I have no obligation, but, having said that, so long everybody.
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, I don't see those things mentioned on your wiki page.
<Technoviking> who has not voted?
<LaRoza> cody-somerville: I typically spend time doing things than documenting what I do
<LaRoza> Sorry.
<LaRoza> "My wiki" is my programming wiki, to me.
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, Well, as a part of applying for membership, you document your contributions.
<LaRoza> And helping programmers with Ubuntu with ubuntuprogramming.wikidot.com (which isn't really that developed yet)
<LaRoza> cody-somerville: I like helping people. I can do that with or without a membership ;)
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, I agree.
<effie_jayx> LaRoza,  but please consider the fact that we depend on the docmunetation to have a wide idea of waht you do
<LaRoza> May I see your wiki page for reference?
<nixternal> LaRoza: I agree with that as well
<nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RichardJohnson
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodySomerville
<LaRoza> cody-somerville: Ah, I see your point very well now
<LaRoza> I totally understand your thoughts now. I really am forum/irc centric and actually forgot about this meeting because I was helping someone with programming on Ubuntu
 * cody-somerville nods.
<LaRoza> If you think I haven't documented my actions well (indeed, I haven't) I accept your decision
<LaRoza> (I am a Criminal Justice major, and understand the importance of getting "paperwork" done.)
<nixternal> LaRoza: I would like to see you get more involved with the development side, as you obviously have the knowledge in doing so, and therefor providing more to Ubuntu besides that amazing work you do in the forums
<LaRoza> The problem is/was that I got the internet at home just last October, whereas I have used Ubuntu for much longer
<LaRoza> (Yes, I used Ubuntu without the internet, it can be done)
<lukehasnoname> haha, I'm at a coffee shop right now because I don't have home internet
<lukehasnoname> they could be intercepting this entire meeting via wifi :0
<atoponce> i am recasting the votes for clarity, so i know where we're at
<atoponce> +1
<vorian> +1
<nixternal> -1 at this time
<atoponce> cody-somerville: ?
<atoponce> pedro_: ?
<Technoviking> +1
<atoponce> _MMA_: ?
<pedro_> -1 here
<cody-somerville> -1 at this time.
<atoponce> effie_jayx: ?
<effie_jayx> +1
 * mneptok will brb
<_MMA_> -1
<_MMA_> Sorry. I gotta run for a bit.
 * n0rman brb
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, I'm sorry but unfortunately we're unable to come to a conclusion regarding your membership at this time.
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, We welcome you to try again at the next meeting :)
<LaRoza> I won't try again
<atoponce> LaRoza: document more of your contributions on your wiki, to change those -1s to +1s
<nhaines> Keep up the hard work, LaRoza.  I know the forums are a lot of effort!
<santiago-ve> LaRoza, Mainly what you need to do is document your work
<LaRoza> I have no interest in maintaining a useless wiki ;)
<LaRoza> My own is work enough
<cody-somerville> LaRoza, And thats entirely acceptable. :)
<atoponce> LaRoza: it just makes it tough for us to see if it's not doc'd
<cody-somerville> I hope you continue your contributions as they *are* appreciated regardless if you put them on your wiki or not.
<vorian> LaRoza: you rock!
<Technoviking> LaRoza: please re-consider , and I would glad to help out with your wiki
<rolando-ve> LaRoza: just try it again, I'm sure that you will do!
 * nhaines cheers for LaRoza.
<rolando-ve> cheers!
<pedro_> santiago-ve: you're up next!
<nhaines> Launchpad is back, by the way.
<santiago-ve> Hello, My name is santiago Zarate, I am From Caracas Venezuela. I've been member of the Venezuelan LoCo team for about 2 years. I am a (K)Ubuntu advocate, y try to speak about Ubuntu top anyone who wants to listen.
<ubuntuser> pedro_, cropalato ..please!
<cropalato> thanks
<santiago-ve> I Work as a developer/consultan in a Small company in Caracas, currently working on a Business Intelligence/Olap Free Software (as free of speech), where we use ubuntu for our develpment process including the clientssi... .
<cropalato> I'm Brazian, teaching Operating Systems in a local University about seven year and TCP/IP about four years (introducting linux whenever is possible). I use a Linux since 1996 and met the Ubuntu about two years and IÂ´m Brazilian Translation Member and member of Brazilian LocoTeam, this is my greatest contribution as you can see here https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/+languages/pt_BR. I am active in #ubuntu-br, #ubuntu-br-ba to help and sup
<cropalato> port in Portuguese Language.
<pedro_> wait wait
<santiago-ve> ...
<santiago-ve> well
<effie_jayx> cropalato, ?
<santiago-ve> who's next?
<santiago-ve> me or cropalato?
<pedro_> wondering the same
<alexio44> o.O
<effie_jayx> santiago-ve,  cropalato  had been waiting for launchpad to return
<rolando-ve> pedro_ did say santiago?
<cropalato> may i ?
<santiago-ve> You where first after all~
<effie_jayx> cropalato,  please, go again...
<pedro_> santiago-ve: it's ok for you to proceed with him first?
<santiago-ve> i migth go drink some cofee...
<cropalato> I'm Brazian, teaching Operating Systems in a local University about seven year and TCP/IP about four years (introducting linux whenever is possible). I use a Linux since 1996 and met the Ubuntu about two years and IÂ´m Brazilian Translation Member and member of Brazilian LocoTeam, this is my greatest contribution as you can see here https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/+languages/pt_BR. I am active in #ubuntu-br, #ubuntu-br-ba to help and sup
<cropalato> port in Portuguese Language.
 * santiago-ve has his cofee on his right hand...
<pedro_> santiago-ve: thanks you ;-)
<cropalato> Now a day I am coordinating the translation of the Ubuntu Desktop Course (to Brazilian Portuguese). Helping to make more Ubuntu events in Salvador. Helping Penguim (another Ubuntu member) to create make a Open Source/Ubuntu Cell in my University. As member and admin of the ubuntu-br-ba (state team) I usually lectures and support in regional events and national Free. IÂ´m Brazilian Planeta Member http://planeta.ubuntu-br.org and active member in
<cropalato> the Brazilian LocoTeam. In the future I want to continue to translate Ubuntu until it becomes 100% Portuguese. Work harder with the Server Team. And start some projects in the PPA. My UbuntuÂ´s wiki is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cropalato my Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~ricardo-cropalato.
<cropalato> wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cropalato
<cropalato> https://launchpad.net/~ricardo-cropalato
<rolando-ve> santiago-ve: thanks! :)
<effie_jayx> cropalato,  that is some fantastic edubuntu work.. could you tell us about it?
<cody-somerville> cropalato, I like your wiki page :)
<cody-somerville> Lots of strong endorsements too
<effie_jayx> cropalato,  I meant LTSP
<licio> cropalato  was very helpful in the last FISL(the biggest FLOSS conference in Brazil)
<ubuntuser> cropalato is my right hand in the Ubuntu Local Team... ;) (events, etc...)
<cropalato> effie_jayx, Sorry. I work with network and security
<nixternal> you have some really good testimonials....
<cropalato> nixternal, thanks
<atoponce> nixternal: good, and a lot
<ubuntuser> ;)
<cropalato> effie_jayx, i working with the italc
<licio> nixternal, ubuntu-br loves cropalato
<ubuntuser> #)
<atoponce> cropalato: i noticed you're a member of ubuntu ireland?
<cody-somerville> cropalato, What made you get involved with LTSP?
<cropalato> our course is to sysadmins. the ltsp do not help us in lot of labs
<nixternal> cropalato: what is your involvement with the Ubuntu Ireland team?
<cropalato> atoponce, my brother live in ireland. and i was thinking to got there
<atoponce> cropalato: if you did go to ireland, how would that affect your transaltion work?
<effie_jayx> cropalato,  what other areas of contribution would you like to participate in ?
<nixternal> atoponce: guiness would affect everyone's translation work :p
<atoponce> or, rephrasing, what would you contribute to, if you moved to ireland?
<atoponce> nixternal: no argument there. :)
<cropalato> cody-somerville, our university is working to put the linux and the opensource in ours computers. i am helping the group to do it. but i am not making the implementations
<ubuntuser> If he moved to Ireland... I'll lost my right hand.. :)
<cody-somerville> cropalato, so the majority of your contributions have been via the Loco teams and translation?
<nixternal> cropalato: what all have you done with the LTSP team?
<cropalato> cody-somerville, yes.
<cropalato> nixternal, i am coordenating the ltsp tests in my work
<nixternal> using Ubuntu, Edubuntu, or Kubuntu?
<nixternal> or Xubuntu? sorry cody-somerville :)
<cody-somerville> or Xubuntu?
<cody-somerville> :P
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> or Gobuntu :p
<cropalato> nixternal, xubuntu
<ubuntuser> *buntu .. :)
<nixternal> oh noes, you just made cody-somerville jump up for joy! actually, you are the only one I know working with LTSP and Xubuntu...that rocks!
<nixternal> cropalato: how has LTSP and Xubuntu worked out thus far?
<nixternal> interested, as I write the LTSP stuff for the Offical Ubuntu Book
<cropalato> nixternal, as my friend ubuntuser translate de xubuntu, he help me in some situations
<ubuntuser> 100% in portuguese!
 * n0rman is back :)
<cropalato> nixternal, we are testing for few years
<cropalato> sorry
<cropalato> months
<cropalato> :-D
<nixternal> a lot of solid translation work, and by solid I don't mean tiny edits, you have some good stuff there that has all been approved
<effie_jayx> any more q's berfore we start votin?
<nixternal> you have even help people solve their questions promptly, I like that
<nixternal> I think I am good with the questions
<santiago-ve> sec... i need more cofee...
 * santiago-ve walks
<effie_jayx> great
<santiago-ve> back
<atoponce> i like what i see with translations and security. +1 here
<nixternal> +1 from me, good work!
<effie_jayx> +1
<cody-somerville> +1 for significant and sustained translations and loco team work.
<atoponce> cropalato: if you move to ireland, however, you have to keep the same spirit up. :)
<ubuntuser> heheh
<nixternal> and drink a ton of guiness :)
<cropalato> atoponce, no problem
<atoponce> cropalato: nixternal may join you, it sounds like
<effie_jayx> congrats cropalato
<licio> atoponce, he won't move, because he can't live without us
<nixternal> I am down for that
<effie_jayx> santiago-ve, you are up!
<cropalato> thanks
<ubuntuser> Congrats cropalato ... you deserv!
<pedro_> +1 from me, i like your work on the portuguese translations and keep up the good work with the loco team also
<rolando-ve> cropalato: nice!
<santiago-ve> cropalato, great
<santiago-ve> Hello, My name is santiago Zarate, I am From Caracas Venezuela. I've been member of the Venezuelan LoCo team for about 2 years. I am a (K)Ubuntu advocate, y try to speak about Ubuntu top anyone who wants to listen.
<nhaines> cropalato: congratulations! :D
<santiago-ve> I Work as a developer/consultan in a Small company in Caracas, currently working on a Business Intelligence/Olap Free Software (as free of speech), where we use ubuntu for our develpment process including the clientssi... .
<santiago-ve> I have been working very actively on the site and Irc, and also I've helped in some events in venezuela, given talks in few events about ubuntu and web develpment. And currently i am working on this year's aniversary event.
<nixternal> congrats and welcome cropalato!!!
<santiago-ve> LP: https://launchpad.net/~469
<santiago-ve> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SantiagoZarate
<ubuntuser> thanks nixternal .. pedro_ .. guys!!
<rolando-ve> I can certify santiago-ve excelent work, I'm very glad to see him here.
<nixternal> man, I would have loved to have to FISOL
<cropalato> thanks to all, good night.
<rolando-ve> He was to me like a rigth hand when I was LoCo Contact, and now he was sellected as Ubuntu-ve-Caracas (regional team) like leader of it.
<nixternal> g'nite cropalato
<rolando-ve> He is working so hard every day, and every time help in all events. He was in all Ubuntu-ve events, and know that he will be in a lot of more.
<santiago-ve> nixternal, i had the chance to be on two flisol :p
<rolando-ve> I Think that he is an excelent stone that will help in the Ubuntu Building!
<atoponce> santiago-ve: what would you say is your #1 contribution to ubuntu?
<santiago-ve> rolando-ve, thanks
<santiago-ve> atoponce, Advocacy~ i take ubuntu with me everywhere
<g3o> i support santiago-ve is a active and excelent member of our loco team--
<cody-somerville> santiago-ve, how many talks have you done and what was the average audience?
<effie_jayx> I can attest his recent contribution in giving talks across the country travelling and asking for permisions to attend events of ubuntu-ve in different cities
<santiago-ve> cody-somerville, the first about 40 Mins.,.. with 300~ or so people
<nixternal> santiago-ve: is there anything in Kubuntu development that you would like to start focusing more on?
<santiago-ve> the second with arround 100 persons and was 30 mins duration... twice (one of mine, and one supporting rolando-ve who could not attend to that event)
<cody-somerville> santiago-ve, and these were at what event/forum/etc?
<santiago-ve> nixternal, mainly database access tools like kplato which is a postgresql GUI...
<pedro_> santiago-ve: according to your lp profile, you're a member of the ubuntu bugsquad team, may you tell us  how that goes?
<santiago-ve> cody-somerville, events...
<nixternal> ooh, kplato, nice
<cody-somerville> santiago-ve, Where did you speak at? sorry.
<RoAkSoAx> cody-somerville, they are events done through Latin America the same day
<santiago-ve> pedro_, i joined the bugsquad team... but i havent been able to contributre to it as i would love to...
<RoAkSoAx> it's a linux install fest
<santiago-ve> cody-somerville, 2 evens in maracaibo venezuela, 1 at paraguana venezuela, and the other one in caracas
<cody-somerville> santiago-ve, what *were* the events?
<nixternal> I can also speak on the stuff he has helped with in #kubuntu and #kubuntu-devel...he has been around for a while in there
<nixternal> santiago-ve: did you help or try to help ryanakca with the upcoming Kubuntu website?
<nixternal> I think I remember you offering
<santiago-ve> cody-somerville, 1 was the flisol (paraguana) given a guided install talk, 2 evens in maracaibo, one our first anyversary as a loco team (Web application developments) and other a talk fest on some university at maracaibo (Jose Gregorio Hernandez)
<santiago-ve> nixternal, i did... but i didnt got to mail rynakca...
<cody-somerville> santiago-ve, What are your plans for future contribution?
<santiago-ve> but i plan to do it as i have some more free time now...
<nixternal> rock on! it is definitely needed
<vorian> excellent :)
<santiago-ve> cody-somerville, contribute to Kubuntu Packaging, give even more support to our loco members and the linux comunity in general
<nixternal> he is definitely helping Kubuntu devs, I can attest to that
<santiago-ve> and be more active in venezuela and international comunyties like ubuntu-es
<nixternal> and lets not forget the huge kubuntu-es group help as well :)
<RoAkSoAx> santiago-ve, in #ubuntu-es we always need people available to help ;)
<santiago-ve> i am on kubuntu-es aswell...
<nixternal> wow, the ubuntu-ve ml is busy
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
<santiago-ve> nixternal, http://www.ubuntu-ve.org/user/25/track my activity on the forums
<rolando-ve> Latinoamerica RULEZ!!!
<rolando-ve> :D
<cody-somerville> +1 for strong loco team involvement but I'd encourage you to move forward with your plans to get involved with Kubuntu's development.
<nixternal> +1 from me, great work!
<vorian> I'm happy to +1 (now get to work!)
<vorian> :P
<atoponce> +1 here on advocacy
<santiago-ve> vorian, cody-somerville sure i will... i need to get romo on the repos~
<santiago-ve> rombo*
<cody-somerville> :)
<Technoviking> +0, i would like of you goals completed
<pedro_> +1 from me, for your good work on the loco team, will wait for you on #ubuntu-es :-P
<effie_jayx> any more votes?
<vorian> congrats santiago-ve :)
<rolando-ve> Congratulations, Mis mas sinceras felicitaciones santiago-ve, nice Job (advocacy)
<santiago-ve> YAY!!!!
<nhaines> Congratulations, santiago-ve!  :D
<santiago-ve> Thanks a lot guy!!!!
<ntovar> santiago-ve, felicitaciones
<cody-somerville> Woot!
<effie_jayx> santiago-ve,  congrats and get hacking...
<cody-somerville> \o/
<leogg> congrats santiago-ve
<nixternal> congrats and welcome santiago-ve!!! /me gets some Kubuntu work ready for you :)
<fitoria> felicidades santiago-ve
<cody-somerville> Congratz to everyone who got approved this evening but unfortunately we need to call it quits for now.
<santiago-ve> leogg, nixternal, fitoria
<santiago-ve> leogg, nixternal, fitoria thanks!
<alexio44> O.O
<MagicFab> santiago-ve, bien!
<pedro_> santiago-ve: felicitaciones ;-)
<MagicFab> :D
<n0rman> santiago-ve:  excelente  :)
<MagicFab> Bravo *-ve
<alexio44> estamos muchos latinos :)
<alexio44> santiago-ve: felicidades :D
<nhaines> Thanks for the vote of confidence.  :)
<nixternal> next?
<vanedesanz> 	felicidades santiago-ve :D
<rolando-ve> Thanks MagicFab
<alexio44> Central America is next ! :)
 * n0rman is here
<santiago-ve> thanks !!
<n0rman> My name is Norman Garcia Aguilar, I study my 9th semester of telecommunictaions and work as tech support in an IT school, im ubuntu member since dapper drake. Im a member of ubuntu nicaragua LoCo Team since march 2007 and the team leader since april 2008. I have one year participating on the linux community in my country and in ubuntu nicaragua loco team.
 * mneptok n0rman or awalton__ 
<n0rman> I have been participating in a lots of activities, such as flisol nicaragua 2007, sfd-ni (best event worldwide) 2007, dfd 2008, flisol nicaragua 2008 and the linuxtour, an initiative of the local community to make conferences in universities, high schools, elemantary schools, and NGO. In those activities i have the opportunity to talk to a lot of people about the benefits of free software/open source and ubuntu linux.
<cody-somerville> n0rman, sorry but the meeting has concluded.
<n0rman> ok :S
<ZehRique> cody-somerville, when will be the next meeting?
<effie_jayx> n0rman,  we will receive applicants in our next meeting
<cody-somerville> ZehRique, it will be announced tomorrow
<ZehRique> OK! Thanks, cody-somerville
 * alexio44 is at 6% college strike !
<mneptok> ummm ...
<mneptok> cody-somerville: could we pelase get to my application?
 * alexio44 lanza el primer morterazo !!!  {Patria libre o Morir !!!! }
<cody-somerville> mneptok, but I'm tired :(
<mneptok> cody-somerville: and i just ignored paying customers for 2.5 hours
<rolando-ve> Good night every one, see ya the next meeting
 * alexio44 ondea la bandera de la LIBERTAD !!!!
 * fitoria screams "Patria Libre o Morir!!!!!!"
<santiago-ve> well thanks for your time guys! and congratulations to the new members!
<kirkland> thanks all
<Technoviking> mneptok: sorry
<p0g0> well, awalton__  mebbe next time
 * alexio44 se convierte en garrobo
<awalton__> p0g0, definitely tomorrow
<awalton__> same bat time, same bat place
<p0g0> 'k,  Bat Dot Man
<n0rman> tomorrow will be announced the next meeting?
<nhaines> n0rman: yes.
<vorian> soon
<leogg> ok guys... let's get some beers
<leogg> n0rman, alexio44 ?
<nhaines> Not to be a pest, but when can expect Launchpad and so forth to be updated.
 * alexio44 sigue a leogg
<n0rman> where? havana sons? :P
<leogg> n0rman, +1
<alexio44> LA ESQUINA FIEL !!!!!!!!!
<alexio44> y pasamos trayendo a pp
<atoponce> nhaines: as soon as we can
<alexio44> para que nos cante
<nhaines> atoponce: I'm just anxious to get the planet/cloak/email things done on my side.  No rush, of course.  Wasn't sure if there was a longer timeframe.
<alexio44> cheers mate !  leogg, n0rman, fitoria, igorgue !!!!
<n0rman> kei, bye bye
<atoponce> nhaines: the sooner we do it, the less we have to worry about ourselves. :)
<nhaines> atoponce: Sounds like a win-win then.  ;)
<xander21c> Hello
<xander21c> anyone have the link for the server guide??
<bimberi> xander21c: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/index.html
<xander21c> nice :) thanks
<PriceChild> @schedule
<ubottu> PriceChild: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 May 13:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 12:00: MOTU | 31 May 12:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00: LoCo Council
<PriceChild> Etc/UTC? :/
<PriceChild> jussi01: Is that right?
<jussi01> PriceChild: yes, thats correct
<jussi01> means that the times are etc/UTC
<jussi01> @schedule helsinki
<ubottu> jussi01: Schedule for Europe/Helsinki: 29 May 16:00: Desktop Team | 30 May 15:00: MOTU | 31 May 15:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 19:00: LoCo Council
<jussi01> PriceChild: it defaults to etc/UTC
<PriceChild> jussi01: but etc and utc aren't the same are they?
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 05 Jun 20:00 UTC: Security Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-30
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 05 Jun 20:00 UTC: Security Team
<sistpoty|work> anyone around for motu meeting?
<lukehasnoname> fail
<Hobbsee> oh, motu meeting, is it?
<sistpoty|work> yes
<sistpoty|work> anyone who'd like to host?
<sistpoty|work> anyone?
<Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: go ahead and hsot
<emgent> @schedule rome
<sistpoty|work> Hobbsee: ok (but forgive me, if I'm a little bit distracted here and then, as I'm also trying to work *g*)
<ubottu> emgent: Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: MOTU | 31 May 14:30:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 18:00: LoCo Council | 05 Jun 22:00: Security Team
<sistpoty|work> #startmeeting
<sistpoty|work> [startmeeting]
<Hobbsee> enomootbot
<Hobbsee> oh, wait
<sistpoty|work> heh, I'm too stupid to host, I guess *g*
<soren> It's here, but malfunctioning.
<sistpoty|work> let's do it oldschool wise then. welcome everyone to the motu meeting.
<sistpoty|work> anyone volunteering to do the minutes?
<sebner> huhu everybody =)
<DktrKranz> I can do minutes, if no-one volunteers
<sistpoty|work> excellent, thanks DktrKranz
<sistpoty|work> seems, like there are no fixed topics on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<sistpoty|work> so, anyone has s.th. we should discuss right now?
<sebner> DktrKranz: lol
<sebner> sistpoty|work: should I do the sending then? ^^
<cody-somerville> hehe
<sistpoty|work> sebner: that'd be excellent :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: ^^, np
<pochu> I have!
<sistpoty|work> pochu: the stage is all yours
<sebner> DAMN! xD
<pochu> Please, read and comment on this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-May/003919.html
<pochu> :)
<pochu> (I have to leave in a minute or two...)
<sistpoty|work> pochu: didn't you want to send a summary to the mailing list? *g*
<pochu> sistpoty|work: yes, but after getting more feedback ;)
<sebner> VOTE
<sebner> +1
<pochu> (this Sunday or so)
<pochu> sebner: lol
<sebner> ^^
<sistpoty|work> pochu: ok, excellent
<pochu> sebner: is that +1 to read and comment, or to the proposal itself? ;)
<sistpoty|work> sebner: what do you want to vote on? *g*
<pochu> thanks, gtg
<sebner> <sistpoty|work> pochu: didn't you want to send a summary to the mailing list? *g*
<pochu> will read the backlog later
<pochu> sebner: ah, will do this WE
<pochu> bye!
<sistpoty|work> cya pochu
<sebner> bye pochu
<sebner> sistpoty|work: ha. we won ^^
<sistpoty|work> ok, anyone who'd like to comment on this thread right here?
<sistpoty|work> ok, since noone comments right now, here's my homework for you: read the thread and comment on the mailing list, or not *g*
<sistpoty|work> any other topics?
<sistpoty|work> how about revu days (is there a fixed schedule nowadays)... what's the state of merges? is the sponsors queue making progress?
<sistpoty|work> hm... maybe s.th. simpler: is it also as hot where you are as it is here?
<DktrKranz> queue is quite long, ATM, but should be shrinked soon, mostly are merge bugs, quite easy to manage
<sistpoty|work> anyone anything else to say?
<DktrKranz> if we grab 5 a day, we can reduce it very much
<DktrKranz> and, yes... so hot here :)
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> ok, since there are no more topics, let's come to the fixed topic. when's the next motu meeting? 2 weeks, 8 hours later?
<sistpoty|work> that would be 13th june, 20 utc
<sistpoty|work> right?
<DktrKranz> right
<sistpoty|work> :)
<sistpoty|work> ok, since there are no more topics, I'd say meeting ended
<DktrKranz> since it will be evening in europe, it will be much cooler, so there will be no room to speak about hot days, so let's find something to discuss :P
<cody-somerville> gah
<sistpoty|work> heh
<cody-somerville> you guys move too fast :P
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: do you have a topic that we should have discussed?
<cody-somerville> I haven't even had a chance to collect my thoughts to ask myself just that ;]
<sistpoty|work> heh
<cody-somerville> What about that document that was being worked on in Gobby?
<cody-somerville> Did we discuss that?
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: no, it wasn't on the agenda
 * ogra grins about *that document*
<sistpoty|work> but if s.o. would like to comment on the document, let's reopen the meeting *g*
<sebner> too late norsetto geser :P
<norsetto> its never too late
<geser> sistpoty|work: which document?
<sistpoty|work> geser: the gobby document from UDS
<DktrKranz> motu-process, IIRC
<sebner> geser: seen evolution-sharp?
<geser> sebner: yes
<sebner> geser: nice. and I filed a sync bug for gmetadom (norsetto forced me ^^)  but subscribed the main sponsors
<nitrofurano093> a Canonical buddy asked me to get in this motu meeting to talk about the ubuntu-title contributions i implemented year ago, with different weights
<sistpoty|work> ok, seems like noone is interested to discuss s.th. in this meeting
<sistpoty|work> oh, heh
<sistpoty|work> nitrofurano093: sure, then go ahead please
<cody-somerville> hmmm
<cody-somerville> can we delay the meeting by an hour?
<cody-somerville> :P
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: that already happened *g*
<nitrofurano093> well, i'm about leaving in 5 minutes :-(
<sistpoty|work> nitrofurano093: oh. maybe you'd like to raise the topic on the motu mailing list then?
<nitrofurano093> i don't know how the packaging process of ubuntu-title works
<cody-somerville> Okay, lets just reschedule for sometime soon?
<DktrKranz> two delays in the same day, we're in world guinness! :)
<nitrofurano093> as well i registered more than 100 projects at launchpad.net - with special attention at sdlBasic and wxBasic
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: well, the next regular interval would be 2 weeks from now. any better idea?
<nitrofurano093> Miriam Ruiz is trying to package sdlBasic, but it seems she is getting difficulties...
<nitrofurano093> and who can package sdlBasic, surelly will about wxBasic and PuppyBasic...
<nitrofurano093> this meeting is interesting - where can i see their schedule of next meetings?
<sistpoty|work> nitrofurano093: you can always ask packaging related questions at #ubuntu-motu (no need to wait for a meeting or that *g*)
<sistpoty|work> nitrofurano093: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<sistpoty|work> ok, let's end the meeting...
<sistpoty|work> 3
<sistpoty|work> 2
<sistpoty|work> 1
<DktrKranz> 0,5
<sistpoty|work> 0.25
<sistpoty|work> meeting adjourned :)
<sistpoty|work> thanks everyone for joining
<DktrKranz> and for take care of global warming
<DktrKranz> :)
<sistpoty|work> DktrKranz: seems like you don't need to write too much for the minutes ;)
<lukehasnoname> junk science
<lukehasnoname> >_>
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work: that's why I volunteerd :)
<sistpoty|work> heh
<DktrKranz> see you in a hour, then? :P
<sistpoty|work> heh
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 05 Jun 20:00 UTC: Security Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 04 Jun 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Team | 05 Jun 20:00 UTC: Security Team
 * MatthewV is Away, Reason: ( bed time for me Zzzzz.. ) | Since: ( Friday, May 30, 2008. 20:22:14 ) Xlack v2.1
<kirkland> @now
<ubottu> kirkland: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 30 2008, 17:54:23 - Next meeting: Forum Council in 18 hours 35 minutes
<lukehasnoname> @later
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 31 May 12:30 UTC:  Forum Council | 02 Jun 20:00 UTC: EMEA membership meeting | 04 Jun 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 04 Jun 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu Team | 05 Jun 20:00 UTC: Security Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-31
<Technoviking> evening all
<nickellery> @schedule Vancouver
<ubottu> nickellery: Schedule for America/Vancouver: 31 May 05:30:  Forum Council | 02 Jun 13:00: EMEA membership meeting | 04 Jun 09:00: LoCo Council | 04 Jun 15:00: Kubuntu Team | 05 Jun 13:00: Security Team
<leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
<ubottu> leoquant: Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 31 May 14:30:  Forum Council | 02 Jun 22:00: EMEA membership meeting | 04 Jun 18:00: LoCo Council | 05 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu Team | 05 Jun 22:00: Security Team
<PmDematagoda> 'lo bapoumba
<PmDematagoda> guess what
<bapoumba> hey PmDematagoda :)
<bapoumba> What ?
<PmDematagoda> no meeting......yet
<PmDematagoda> :P
<bapoumba> well, it's in half hour
<bapoumba> 40 MINS
<PmDematagoda> huh?
<bapoumba> yes
<PmDematagoda> but Lodon is 12:40ish
<PmDematagoda> London
<bapoumba> Hmm
<stdin> UK is on BST, not GMT
<PmDematagoda> bapoumba, can you give me the co-ordinates of the UTC time zone?
<PmDematagoda> oh yeah
<PmDematagoda> stdin, you're right
<bapoumba> I now there is a command in the channels for that
<bapoumba> testing:
<bapoumba> !time
<bapoumba> time!
<PmDematagoda> lol
<stdin> no bot atm
<PmDematagoda> you need a ! I believe
<PmDematagoda> or /time
<bapoumba> ah okay, thanks stdin
<stdin> 'date -u' in a shell will show time in UTC
<PmDematagoda> cool
<PmDematagoda> thanks stdin
<stdin> :)
<PmDematagoda> it's 11:52
<PmDematagoda> stdin, do you know how to show that on the GNOME clock applet?
<stdin> nope, I use KDE ;)
<PmDematagoda> lol
<bapoumba> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ PmDematagoda
<PmDematagoda> ah
<PmDematagoda> thanks baps
<bapoumba> welcome :)
<PmDematagoda> ai
<PmDematagoda> Great Britain/United Kingdom is one hour ahead of UTC during summer.
<PmDematagoda> there's the explanation why GB time was wrong
<PmDematagoda> atleast for me
<bapoumba> yes, and I'm UTC +2
<bapoumba> (my kids are hating me once again ^^)
<PmDematagoda> I need to find a place directly under UTC
<PmDematagoda> or something
<PmDematagoda> bapoumba, jdong was very happy when I relayed your words to him
<PmDematagoda> :D
<bapoumba> Hehe :)
<PmDematagoda> damn
<PmDematagoda> just cant get UTC
<PmDematagoda> :(
<persia> PmDematagoda: Togo.  Specifically, Lome, Togo.
<PmDematagoda> cool
<PmDematagoda> excellent
<PmDematagoda> thanks persia
<PmDematagoda> hey u-g
<PmDematagoda> quite early today
<PmDematagoda> ;)
<ubuntugeek> Hello
<PmDematagoda> 'lo
<Technoviking> morning
<PmDematagoda> evening
<emma> Good morning.
<bapoumba> hello ubuntugeek :)
<emma> I think I might go and see if I can get outside.
<emma> Hello!
<bapoumba> hello emma !
<emma> oh i thought you were calling me an ubuntugeek lol
<bapoumba> NP, emma, and it's nice and sunny outside :)
<PmDematagoda> lol
<PmDematagoda> complete opposite here
<PmDematagoda> been raining all day
<emma> Oh dear. I'm quite sorry to everyone. I thought I was in ##linux. That's where I usually see PmDematagoda
<PmDematagoda> lol
<PmDematagoda> emma, dont you mean #ubuntuforums?
<emma> I hope I am not interrupting a meeting.
<PmDematagoda> not at all
<PmDematagoda> it didnt start yet
<bapoumba> not yet emma
<PmDematagoda> :)
<emma> PmDematagoda: I'm not sure but I thought I was in a different channel since I saw your nick.
<PmDematagoda> emma, lol, am I that famous
<emma> (phew!)
 * PmDematagoda swells in pride
<PmDematagoda> :D
<ubuntugeek> :)
<bapoumba> Hello Mike (sorry, did not see you coming in :))
<PmDematagoda> hey Technoviking(Mike):)
<Technoviking> bapoumba: it is my ninja training
<bapoumba> Must be Technoviking ^^
<PmDematagoda> lol
<bapoumba> Or my poor attention ..
<PmDematagoda> that too can be the cause.........
 * PmDematagoda ducks
 * bapoumba keeps eyes wide open when it comes to PmDematagoda 
<PmDematagoda> :D
<PmDematagoda> you cerebrum isnt functioning properly baps
 * bapoumba getting old..
<PmDematagoda> lol
<PmDematagoda> I suppose you know enough bio to know what it means
<PmDematagoda> :)
<bapoumba> one day you'll understand, PmDematagoda :D
<PmDematagoda> :P
<ubuntugeek> We'll start in a couple minutes
<bapoumba> oki
<PmDematagoda> according to my time, there's one minute remaining
<ubuntugeek> 0 minutes :)
<PmDematagoda> yep
<PmDematagoda> same here
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, keeping time snyced to an NTP?
<ubuntugeek> Aye.
<PmDematagoda> ntp.ubuntu.com I suppose
<ubuntugeek> Lets discuss the Apple/Inte/PPC forum. Originally this was split because there wasn't enough traffic to warrant (2) forums. Putting them together with the and using tagging and prefixes seemed the way to go. The prefixes only specified the actually version leaving it up to the user to put in the tag for Intel or PPC.
<PmDematagoda> PPC usage is rather low
<PmDematagoda> so that can be justified
<PmDematagoda> all Macs coming out nowadays are Intel arent they?
<Technoviking> i think prefixes is the way to go
<ubuntugeek> Yeah Intel only
<PmDematagoda> yep
<PmDematagoda> then we can eventually phase out PPC
<ubuntugeek> I think the PPC user selection is low enough that they can specify a tag stating PPC or Intel. Thoughts?
<PmDematagoda> yeppers
<PmDematagoda> prefixes are simple enough
<PmDematagoda> they are visible enough
<PmDematagoda> that should be enough to make people happy
<ubuntugeek> Currently our prefixes are shared among all categories, if we wanted to split them by PPC/Intel inside the apple forum it would require a new set be created. And would look pretty nasty with 10+ to choose from.
<Technoviking> one question, could we go a step further and merge all the architecture forums i386,amd64, ppc, lpia (mobile), sparc into one and use prefixes? or would that just piss people off
<PmDematagoda> Technoviking, is there a lot of activity on all of them?
<bapoumba> regarding Apple forum, one is enough. The UF tree is already quite complicated :)
<PmDematagoda> i386 and amd64 are obviously active
<ubuntugeek> Mike, well the problem with that is.. Currently we don't have any platform specificed in the prefix, just the distro. Tags should be used for the platform but it requires the user to do that right now.
<oswaldkelso> As a ppc user I can say that the removal of  ubuntu ppc and merging it with mac-tel has not been welcome by either set of users.
<ubuntugeek> I can't imagine choosing from a list of 30+ prefixes trying to find the one i want.
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, very good point
<bapoumba> ubuntugeek, +1
<PmDematagoda> I wouldnt do that either
<Technoviking> agreed
<bapoumba> what about Kubuntu on and64 ?
<bapoumba> it would require more than one prefix
<ubuntugeek> Perhaps we can look at ways to improve the tags and make them into a dropdown like the prefixes.
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, tags?
<PmDematagoda> that may become messy
<bapoumba> can we limit the tags like the prefixes ?
<bapoumba> only a list to choose from ?
<PmDematagoda> some/most people may not even bother if there are a lot of prefixes/tags
<ubuntugeek> You can search by tags and tags now show next to forum title. Its rather simple if someone put 686, PPC, etc in the tag
<bapoumba> and no new ones ? (that would solve the nasty tags)
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, people will take sometime to get used to that
<PmDematagoda> and newbs will find that hard
<PmDematagoda> we must give an introduction to newbies
<ubuntugeek> Lets put it this way, prefixes are pre-defined and the user must choose one. Ubuntu, kubuntu etc its rather simple. Tags however require user input, its about educating them to use the feature. We can add verbage on the posting page to help facilitate this.
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, exactly
<bapoumba> PmDematagoda, any feature is difficult to users ^^
<ubuntugeek> Moving the tag entry box under the subject line from the bottom of the post box would be the first step with verbage.
<bapoumba> (along with the infraction button, but that's another story..)
<ubuntugeek> :)
<bapoumba> I guess the amd64 arch will loose more visibility than any other in this process
<PmDematagoda> amd64 is getting importance
<PmDematagoda> and it is getting better
<PmDematagoda> amd64 must get the same significance as i386 is
<ubuntugeek> I think as the forum evolves we'll probably merge some forums the apple forum was the first one. Let's make some changes to the tag entry box and add verbage to the posting template to help educate users to use the feature. We can also add a tag cloud to the category so the tags are more visible.
<PmDematagoda> that would work
<bapoumba> category ?
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: +1
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, what about giving some more prominence to the help on forums features sticky?
<ubuntugeek> baps, for example http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=328 under the description add a tag cloud
<PmDematagoda> if we do, then newbies can read it and they can find UF more easier to use
<ubuntugeek> Well, I am working on something for new users :) its about 40% done.. I think you'll like it :)
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, excellent
<bapoumba> Ah okay ubuntugeek, +1
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, care to give a preview of what it'll be?
<ubuntugeek> :P
<PmDematagoda> :D
<bapoumba> I know PmDematagoda, you get to talk to each new user :)
<bapoumba> personally, one by one
<ubuntugeek> Mike, looks like we'll give this a try and discuss it in a later meeting to determine how well its working? Agree?
<PmDematagoda> bapoumba, dont be jealous because I have all the luck
<PmDematagoda> :P
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: agreed
<ubuntugeek> k
<ubuntugeek> It's not in the agenda but lets discuss social groups really quick.
<PmDematagoda> ah
<PmDematagoda> so what's going to be done u-g?
<bapoumba> they need to be watched more closely
<ubuntugeek> A few weeks ago I mentioned some ideas for social groups. Those being the following: 1) social groups need to be applied for 2) they need to be ubuntu/forum related
<PmDematagoda> I agree with those points
<bapoumba> +1
<ubuntugeek> With that said, I'd like to propose that we implement those policies and remove the current social groups that don't fall into this spec. Of course letting the group owners know before hand.
<ubuntugeek> Social Groups have sorta turned into a black hole..
<PmDematagoda> agreed
<bapoumba> +1
<bapoumba> and may be also remove the ones that are incative after a certain time
<bapoumba> (one mont or so ?)
<bapoumba> *month
<PmDematagoda> not one month
<PmDematagoda> its a bit too short
<PmDematagoda> let's have it at 3
<Technoviking> 3-6 months
<ubuntugeek> Probably 3-4 months would be good
<bapoumba> okay
<ubuntugeek> 3-6 is good too
<PmDematagoda> yeah
<ubuntugeek> +1 on this from me
<bapoumba> +1
<Technoviking> ask at 3, close at 6 if nothing has changed
<Technoviking> +1
<ubuntugeek> Mike, perfect
<PmDematagoda> Technoviking, let's close at 4
<PmDematagoda> 1 month is more than enough
<PmDematagoda> for the owner to make an appearance and give his opinion
<PmDematagoda> what do you think?
<ubuntugeek> PM, lets see how it goes
<PmDematagoda> ok
<ubuntugeek> Is Graham Otte (xhhux) here to discuss his item?
<PmDematagoda> what?
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: have not seen him
<PmDematagoda> did he actually want to contest his ban?
<ubuntugeek> Yes
<PmDematagoda> oook
<ubuntugeek> Well, lets discuss it Mike. I think we've discussed it enough on the list and lets just make the facts know in public why he was banned.
<Technoviking> let get it on the record
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: +1
<ubuntugeek> Xhhux also shares accounts with multiple other users who have infractions for one reason or another
<ubuntugeek> All the email accounts on these accounts are very similiar, he claims it wasn't him doing it.
<ubuntugeek> He was banned and we reversed the ban once, only to find within the hour he was logging into multiple accounts again
<ubuntugeek> We banned him again
<PmDematagoda> so he knew what he was doing
<bapoumba> is he the one going with pchandler nicks too ?
<PmDematagoda> bapoumba, pchandler?
<ubuntugeek> He disputed it and we (the FC) decided to keep the ban in tact this time
<ubuntugeek> And here we are today.. Its the general consensus of the FC to leave the perm ban at this time.
<PmDematagoda> ubuntugeek, what he did was more than enough to have even a respected member banned
<PmDematagoda> so what kind of reason can he have?
<PmDematagoda> unless he wants to put something over us
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: +1, he was given a second chance and chose not to make the best of it
<ubuntugeek> Mike, +1 also matthew was unable to attend today meeting but shared the same thoughts as us on the FC list.
<ubuntugeek> We will leave the account banned at this time
<ubuntugeek> +1
<bapoumba> fine with me
<PmDematagoda> +1 here as well
<ubuntugeek> Mike?
<Technoviking> +1 from me, he can take it to the CC if he wants, but it is a clear cut case
<ubuntugeek> Yep
<ubuntugeek> Does anyone have anything else?
<bapoumba> I think he has a currently active account
 * bapoumba checking
<PmDematagoda> bapoumba, are you referring to the linsux thing?
<ubuntugeek> baps ok we'll need to look into that
<Technoviking> nope, other than can we move the meetings to 14:30 next time, it is 6:30 AM in Salt Lake :)
<PmDematagoda> :D
<ubuntugeek> Mike, no way lol
<ubuntugeek> Yeah 14:30 is fine
<Technoviking> 6:30 AM Saturday = evil
<ubuntugeek> We'll I am evil :)
<PmDematagoda> :P
<bapoumba> Mike, my kids are waiting to go get new shoes ^^
<ubuntugeek> I'll request the next meeting to be at 14:30 mike
<bapoumba> 2:30 PM saturday = evil too ;)
<Technoviking> bapoumba: have fun
<PmDematagoda> 14:30 is cool
<ubuntugeek> Anything else?
<bapoumba> fine with me too
<Technoviking> none here
<PmDematagoda> do we need to do a clean up of the announcements?
<ubuntugeek> PM, on the frontpage?
<PmDematagoda> yeppers
<ubuntugeek> Yeah
<ubuntugeek> Going to get to that today
<PmDematagoda> cool
<PmDematagoda> :)
<PmDematagoda> and Unix_Slayer sent me a PM today
<oswaldkelso> Could we go bacjk to the ppc issues as they seem to have been ridden over rough shod. There was no consultation as to the merging of mac-tel and ppc low usage or not. Tags suck.
<PmDematagoda> oswaldkelso, what use is maintaining a forum section that is going to die out anyway?
<ubuntugeek> oswal: We are going to try our implementation and bring it back to the agenda in a couple months for discussion .
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: What else to say? Prefixes are a good solution?
<oswaldkelso> The majority of apple converts prefered the previous way with separate forums.
<oswaldkelso> Even the ppc mod was not consulted about the change. Shocking behaviour
<ubuntugeek> oswal: Things change, the forum changes. I think we'll see more merging in the future.
<PmDematagoda> there was a PPC mod?
<ubuntugeek> PPC Mod?
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: I never liked the "Ubuntu" forums have two "Apple" areas
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: Give prefixes a chance
<PmDematagoda> oswaldkelso, prefixes are rather visible, and they also have a way of keeping things organised
<oswaldkelso> ssam. he could'nt make it today but the maerge thread has been largly ignored, even thought ppc and mac-tel hat it
<oswaldkelso> ~hate
<PmDematagoda> was ssam a PPC mod?
<PmDematagoda> blimey, I never knew
<oswaldkelso> yes
<ubuntugeek> ssam was never a mod
<oswaldkelso> he still is, He raise the subject on the agenda
<ubuntugeek> Self appointed maybe, but he has no moderator privileges on the forums.
<oswaldkelso> well forum admin ot what ever you call it. I'm not sure of the terminoligy
<PmDematagoda> oswaldkelso, ssam isnt an admin
<PmDematagoda> that I am sure
<oswaldkelso> rep then. the ppc voice
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: ssam is just a regular forum user on ubuntuforums.org
<PmDematagoda> oswaldkelso, just give the prefixes some time and justice
<oswaldkelso> Well if I'm wrong I stand corrected. But thats what I was lead to belive.
<ubuntugeek> yep, like I said we'll re-discuss it in a couple months
<PmDematagoda> oh and u-g
<ubuntugeek> Yep
<PmDematagoda> is there a possibility that the search system can extend throughout the whole forum?
<oswaldkelso> I seem to me ( and other ppc users) the Ubuntu is trying to kill off anything to do with ppc. Some of the earlier comments can only lead to that asumption also.
<PmDematagoda> for now, we can't search either through the Jail or OPP
<PmDematagoda> and that is a bit of a disadvantage
<PmDematagoda> oswaldkelso, Apple has killed off PPC
<PmDematagoda> who else is there?
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: We are not trying to kill it off, CAn you today make a post about PPC on the forums?
<ubuntugeek> Ubuntu forums is not trying to kill off anything... There is simply not enough PPC traffic to warrant a separate section when we have tools like tags/prefixes. We made  a decsion and will be trying it for a couple months.
<persia> Sony?
<oswaldkelso> It has nothing to do with apple ppc is more than apple. There are lots of powerpc hardware still being made and people want to run linux on it.
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: I appreciate your passion for PPC, but a decision has been made. We will look again in a couple of months
<oswaldkelso> Sony yes Xbox millions of new machines
<ubuntugeek> Our next meeting with be scheduled on June 14th, at 14:30 UTC.
<ubuntugeek> thanks for coming everyone!
<Technoviking> thanks
<ubuntugeek>  /end meeting
<bapoumba> Thanks :)
<oswaldkelso> What about my motion it's on the agenda but not been discussed yet.
<Technoviking> isn't PowerPC ports the same thing?
<oswaldkelso> No
<oswaldkelso> ssam motion was about the merging of ppc and mac-tel.
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: the forums servers are under extreme load
<ubuntugeek> oswal: We are not adding any other categories at this time that are not related to ubuntu
<oswaldkelso> Mine is about an architecture specific forum ( which could include ubuntu ppc) but distro free Debian Slackintosh Fedora anything that runs on PPC
<ubuntugeek> I understand that, but unless its 100% ubuntu related we are not adding new categories right now for anyone.
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: I have a suggestion
<oswaldkelso> The problems of succsess. Says who
<oswaldkelso> I'm all ears
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: I would take this passion for PPC and start building a community behind it
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: where do you think Kubuntu, xubuntu, etc.. come from :)
<ubuntugeek> Mike, +1
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: There is nothing wrong with our decision. but that does not stop you from doing your own thing
<PmDematagoda> well, Im off to watch some movies
<ubuntugeek> See ya PM
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: We have to do what is best for the whole Ubuntu community, not just PPC
<PmDematagoda> and Technoviking, hot fuzz is great
<PmDematagoda> see ya u-g:)
<Technoviking> oswaldkelso: people building new community and areas of interest is what make Ubuntu great
<Technoviking> later all off to drink lots of Coffee
<PmDematagoda> lol
<ubuntugeek> Well our time is up for this month.. thanks everyone
<PmDematagoda> have fun Mike
<PmDematagoda> :D
<ubuntugeek>  /end meeting 2nd time
<PmDematagoda> lol
<ubuntugeek> Thanks all!
<PmDematagoda> see ya everyone
<PmDematagoda> will this ever end?
<PmDematagoda> :D
<bapoumba> Bye everyone :)
<xhhux> hello?
<nathangrubb> the meeting is still 5 hours ahead
<xhhux> how bout now?
<nathangrubb> nope, still 5 more hours
<xhhux> hmm.. better wit a few more seconds and then see
<xhhux> ...
<xhhux> ...
<xhhux> ..
<xhhux> how bout now?
<ace_suares> are we there yet ?
<nathangrubb> no
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-06-01
<Ekushey> someone bad this bot
<Ekushey> *ban
<RainCT> jpds: ping?
<Hobbsee> irseek's having trouble again, it looks like
<Ekushey> what does this bot do?
<Ekushey> stats bot?
<Hobbsee> bah.
<leoquant> pffff
 * Hobbsee glares at the new services.  broken forwards too?
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: services don't affect channel modes, and I hope those bots don't let themselves be forwarded.
<Hobbsee> hmm
<bimberi> Ekushey: irseek.com
<Seveas> Hobbsee, isn't irseekbot always cloaked?
<PriceChild> Seveas: they are normally.
<Seveas> so this could be a fake irseek bot
<bimberi> the IP Address is from the right country
<Ekushey> bimberi: ok
<jpds> RainCT: no, I don't have access here
 * RainCT though you are all-mighty :P
<nickellery> @schedule Vancouver
<zul> @schedule montreal
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-25
<AnAnt_> Hello
<AnAnt_> Hello, I hope this is the right place, I'm interested in Ubuntu membership I've made a personal wiki. So how would I add my name to the agenda of MOTU council ?
<SiDi> wheres the videocast for this session ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt_: send them a mail and ask them to add you to the agenda, iirc.  Do they say what to do on the application page?
<Hobbsee> SiDi: try asking in #ubuntu-devel-summit
<SiDi> ah
<SiDi> :P
<AnAnt_> Hobbsee: what's the difference between MOTU & ubuntu-universe-contributor ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt_: one has upload rights, and the other has membership rights
<AnAnt_> so I should first apply as ubuntu-universe-contributor
<Hobbsee> you don't have to have one to go for the other, but yes, probably
<AnAnt_> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-26
<amachu> elky: persia: lifeless: Hi alla
<elky> hi
<persia> amachu, Hey
<amachu> *all
<persia> lifeless told me that he wouldn't be able to make it today.
<amachu> persia: are you also at UDS?
<persia> I am.
<amachu> so we are three. unless zakame, belutz or themuso are going to turn out
<amachu> elky: Hi
<elky> persia, the others not within sight?
<persia> I'll peer about for the one I know to be around
<amachu> persia: ok
<amachu> pyc: darkvertex: Hi
<darkvertex> hi
<SamhainXIII> Hello. Good afternoon.
<pyc> hi, this is my second round :)
<boyet> Hello good afternoon bosses
<amachu> pyc: darkvertex: Thanks for joining. We are awaiting one more member of the board for Quorum. We have to wait. Hope you understand
<pyc> ok
<darkvertex> ok with me
 * drubin waits for meeting to start
 * persia has a lead, and will report again soon.
<persia> We should reach quorum as soon as a laptop is set up.
<amachu> persia: who is that?
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<darkvertex> hi
<TheMuso> Assuming we have no network connectivity issues here at UDS, we should be right to go.
<amachu> TheMuso: Hi
<amachu> So we start..
<amachu> elky: are you there?
<elky> yup
<amachu> elky: great
<amachu> persia: We start now
<elky> your pinging me made me realise i havent eaten yet, so i'm ordering food :-P but carry on.
<amachu> pyc: Welcome back!
<pyc> hi, thanks :)
<drubin> who is on Council for this loco meeting?
<amachu> pyc: Go ahead introducing yourself
<pyc> Hi, i'm Loell Erecre,  most of my tehcnical contribution lies in ubuntuforums.org
<drubin> s/loco/Membership council/
<pyc> My forum work started since late 2005, in areas of yahoo instant messaging, webcams, screencasting.
<pyc> of which i tend to help promptly in troubleshootings.
<pyc> almost two years after, because I was already known to have consistenly been helping people back then, the philippine LoCo team gave me the privelege to be the LoCo's  primary moderator in 2007.
<pyc> not only did I do LoCo modship functions since then, I've also maintained prompt replies for users technical problems posted in the Philippine Loco forum,
<pyc> I tried to be as detailed as i can if job doesn't get in the way. ;)
<persia> drubin, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-asia-oceania/+members
<pyc> parallel to this, I also do extensive testing for gyachi yahoo messaging client.
<pyc> 've also been packaging it  upstream since 2006 for ubuntu users, and a year ago in my PPA, constantly updating it for every incremental release from the project.
<pyc> I have just notified debian for an ITP for the said software.
<pyc> in addition since Ubuntu Net Cafe has been slowly on the rise, i provided deb packages for "cafe con leche" cafe timer and management, for ubuntu users to use and helping them in setting up their internet shop by advising them on the forums.
<TheMuso> pyc: Well done.
<TheMuso> re debian.
<pyc> and  among one of my little contributions is a web app for searching PPAs (http://ppa-search.appspot.com/)
<pyc> It started late last year, probably of little significance, but it made ppa users aware of what others were searching, thereby making a package advertising of some sort. :)
<pyc> I believe that's it...
<pyc> thanks TheMuso :)(
<persia> pyc, What's the state of gyachi in the Ubuntu repositories?
<pyc> i belive i have supporters here, just ready  to sound off :)
<pyc> persia: none yet
 * drubin is here for pyc
<boyet> i'm here an internet cafe owner that uses ubuntu OS exclusively
 * SamhainXIII is here for pyc as well
<pyc> persia reason for that, is questionable which was just resolved lately
<dodimar> me here also for pyc...
<Knightlust> yay for pyc!
<drubin> his contributions of the forums have been great! He has be long standing memember as well as a active loco moderator
<persia> pyc, Could you tell us about some of the seminars you have conducted?
<pyc> i believe, i did not, its my future plan
<boyet> loell has been a great help for my icafe shop here in the Philippines like he said ccl is my timer
<persia> pyc, My apologies.  I misread.
<persia> pyc, Could you tell us about some of the seminars you plan to conduct?
<pyc> foss awareness mostly, and introduction to ubuntu would be most common
<TheMuso> Could anyone else on the membership board enlighten me as to whether this is the same candidate who talked about a web PPA search a few weeks back?
<TheMuso> From memory it isn't, but I can't exactly remember.
<TheMuso> i.e I am not 100% sure.
<elky> dont think so...
<Knightlust> TheMuso: yeah, he's the one, PPA search
<amachu> TheMuso: yes
<pyc> same person, like i said this is second application :)
<TheMuso> amachu, Knightlust, thanks.
<amachu> http://ppa-search.appspot.com/
<TheMuso>  can't remember what nick you used originally.
<TheMuso> amachu: Yes, I got the link on his wiki page.
<pyc> it's always pyc heheh
<elky> that was a very busy meeting iirc
<TheMuso> pyc: Is there any reason why you wrote a separate client, rather than helping improve a client like pidgin?
<TheMuso> Or did you not write it?
<pyc> themuso, i'm not the developer, but specific yahoo protocols is difficult
<pyc> not for pidgin imho, like yahoo msg15 prtocol and such
<TheMuso> pyc: Right, just double checked, thanks for the confirmation.
<lifeless> hi guys; turns out I'm in bangkok airport :P
<lifeless> but not for long, so I won't be voting
<amachu> lifeless: glad to see you
<elky> lifeless, i didnt know they relocated UDS to bangkok!
 * elky ducks
<amachu> I would give +1 for pyc this time..
<elky> amachu, agreed, +1 from me too
 * drubin cheers
<persia> +1 from me.
<TheMuso> +1 here, Jerome's feedback is likely the clincher for me, as well as the many other endorcements.
<amachu> cool.. Welcome pyc and keep up the good work
<pyc> thanks!!! :D
<Knightlust> yay for pyc!!! congratulations!
<boyet> congrats boss loell
<pyc> thanks Knightlust
<SamhainXIII> pyc is in?
 * dodimar cheers for pyc
<SamhainXIII> yey!
<amachu> lifeless: would you like to think of voting now, we are going to call up the next participant
<pyc> oh thanks to all who attended for my application :)
<boyet> pyc, dont forget to help me my network manager ha
<amachu> darkvertex: Please go ahead
<darkvertex> hi, my name is Hertatijanto Hartono. I only joined Launchpad since late 2008
<lifeless> amachu: I don't have the focus/time right now. For the former see planet,f or the latter I'm boarding an airplane very shortly
<amachu> lifeless: ok
<darkvertex> I haven't done much direct public projects using ubuntu, but in the office / workplace I applied my linux knowledge through ubuntu 8.04
<darkvertex> I am a system admin at the company hq
<darkvertex> I have done some translations in Launchpad
<darkvertex> I guess that's it
<darkvertex> :)
<amachu> darkvertex: Glad that you started contributing. I would give +0 this time, the wiki need have more information...
<TheMuso> I agree with amachu, +0 also. I don't feel there is sustained contribution to the Ubuntu community.
<amachu> darkvertex: continue with the good work.. you should make it in future..
<persia> darkvertex, https://translations.launchpad.net/~darkvertex looks like it might not be a complete list.  Is there other documentation of either your translations or your efforts leading the translation team?
<darkvertex> persia: no, this Launchpad Indonesian Translators team has just been started
<darkvertex> amachu: thanks for the encouragement
<darkvertex> TheMuso: thanks
<persia> I'm going to vote -1 for now: I think that more time, and more docs would certainly raise my vote.
<amachu> and elky?
<elky> 0 from me.
<darkvertex> persia: I believe the translation team could be managed and improved upon
<persia> darkvertex, I'm certain of it, and I even think you're in a great position to lead that.  I just don't think you've done it yet.
<darkvertex> persia: the documentation of the team is almost non existent at the moment
<amachu> darkvertex: best wishes for the future
<amachu> is there anything else that anyone would like to bring upon?
<persia> darkvertex, There's some docs on the wiki about setting up and coordinating teams.  Please ask for help if you get stuck.
<TheMuso> Not from ne
<persia> I'd like to see either more mailing list discussion of nominees for empty positions, or an invitation for candidates to attend one of our meetings.
<darkvertex> persia: will do
<darkvertex> thanks for your time guys :)
<persia> darkvertex, Great.  Good luck, and we look forward to seeing your reapplication in a few months.
<boyet> thanks bosses for your vote for loell
<amachu> good. comparitively a short meeting.
<elky> a nice change after the past few weeks.
<amachu> thankyou every one for participating..
<TheMuso> Has an announcement been made publically about new candidates being needed?
<amachu> TheMuso: new candidates for the Board?
<TheMuso> amachu: Yes.
<amachu> yes
<persia> There was one when we were first authorised to grow, but that was long enough ago we might benefit from another call.
<TheMuso> I think we probably would.
<amachu> there is one nomiation from persia, and i would like have your opinion on that, for taking a decision
<persia> If nobody objects, I think we ought invite the nominee to the next meeting.
<persia> We can take a decision then.
<amachu> persia: sounds good
<amachu> i will add it to the agenda too
<persia> And who volunteers to arrange another call for nominees?  We still have open slots, even if the current nominee is approved.
<TheMuso> Sounds fine by me.
<amachu> persia: another call with?
<persia> call for nominees.
<persia> We need more nominations, because we're short on board members.
<amachu> persia: yes. people whom I had initially are now out of our time zone. i will look into logs etc., and try to make a nomination
<persia> amachu, Great!
<amachu> TheMuso: lifeless: elky: Kindly look out for nominations.. and suggest if you have any on the list
<TheMuso> I'll do my best, however most of my attention is towards the dev community...
<amachu> TheMuso: Thanks
 * TheMuso thinks we're done here.
<amachu> persia: shall we wind up this meeting
<persia> SOunds good to me.
<amachu> our next meeting is scheduled on 09 June 09, 10.00 UTC
<elky> will do (sorry, distracted by late dinner)
<amachu> thank you everyone for partipating
<TheMuso> Great, should have no probem making that one.
<persia> See you all then.
<TheMuso> Now, to the rest ofr UDS.
<boyet> gudday and ahv a nice day
<elmo>   
<elmo> good morning
<sabdfl> hello all
<Technoviking> hello everyone
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> !startmeeting
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about startmeeting
<sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:03. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<elmo> I don't think mdke will be able to join us
<dholbach> hello everybody
<elmo> mako should be around though
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<dholbach> we only have one agenda item today, the other two are for June 2nd
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Ubuntu One
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One
<sabdfl> mdke has registered concerns about ubuntu one in http://launchpad.net/bugs/375345
<dholbach> sladen: are you around?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 375345 in ubunet ""Ubuntu One" name creates confusion" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<dholbach> [LINK] http://launchpad.net/bugs/375345
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/bugs/375345
<sabdfl> he can't make this meeting but we should discuss his comment(s) there
<dholbach> I guess https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubunet/+bug/375345/comments/62 is what we're talking about?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 375345 in ubunet ""Ubuntu One" name creates confusion" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<sabdfl> can i have a quick poll to see who wants to participate in this conversation?
<Vantrax> o/
<sabdfl> we have a lot of people lurking in the channel, and all the CC folks who are here are in one room
<wgrant> me
<sabdfl> so, we could just TALK amongst ourselves if nobody else wanted to participate :-)
 * sbc listens in
<wgrant> I see.
<sabdfl> ok, yay, we have folks here
<sabdfl> hey mako, let's get started
<mako> greetings
<sabdfl> first, can we deal with the trademark issue as defined in the bug?
<sabdfl> i think there are more general issues
 * mako nods
<sabdfl> but lets deal with them one by one
<wgrant> It hasn't been clear exactly which issue is in the scope of which governance body.
<sabdfl> on the trademark front the easy answer is "it's not a trademark violation if you own the trademark"
<Hobbsee> belated o/
<sabdfl> so, pass on a technicality
<sabdfl> but i think it's important to address the folks who are concerned about the spirit of the law, as much as the letter of it
 * elky hugs Hobbsee
<wgrant> sabdfl: That's not an answer to mdke's comment 62, which is probably the one in question.
<Hobbsee> elky: *hugs back*
<sabdfl> there are good people who have said "the spirit of the ubuntu trademark is that it denotes goods that are in line with certain value"
<sabdfl> it's more the brand than the trademark
<sabdfl> but i think we should discuss it here
<sabdfl> is that a good starting point?
<Vantrax> sabdfl imo its not so much that it was done, but that the CC/community wasnt notified that it was coming, or at least given a chance to give input
<wgrant> Vantrax: Different people feel differently about that.
<sabdfl> for us to say "not a legal violation, but worth discussing from a brand-and-values perspective"?
<wgrant> It's not either of those in particular.
<wgrant> sabdfl: That sounds good.
<wgrant> But brand and trademark are very much intertwined.
<sabdfl> ok, so there's the heads-up issue, and the values issue
<sabdfl> i'd like to defer the heads-up issue, because it's more general
<sabdfl> let's start with the question of the "ubuntu brand" and whether u1 is consistent with it
<sabdfl> open floor... wgrant?
<wgrant> Ah, well...
<sabdfl> right. Vantrax?
<sabdfl> quoting mdke:
<sabdfl>  More worryingly, Ubuntu One will almost certainly affect the perception of Ubuntu as a project. The project will be seen, at least in some degree, as less open. That also happened when Ubuntu decided to use Launchpad as its development management software. But Launchpad is all too clearly a separate project to Ubuntu, and carried a promise that it would be open source in the future, a promise that is now being carried out. I think that the ef
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> The trademark policy is meant to prevent that from happening.
<sabdfl> ... the effect of Ubuntu One could be more serious, because it is not clearly demarcated as being a separate project to Ubuntu. This is the first significant time that I'm aware of that a non-free project that Canonical has produced has carried such strong associations with the Ubuntu project itself.
<wgrant> And the problem here is that Canonical doesn't have to follow the policy.
<sabdfl> wgrant: are you talk about a different issue? the fact that canonical has a privileged position in the Ubuntu ecosystem?
<dholbach> wgrant: which policy are you referring to right now?
<sabdfl> for example, if the CC "owned the trademark", would that address your concerns?
<wgrant> sabdfl: Hmm, true, we were talking about the branding, weren't we?
<wgrant> sabdfl: But yes, I was talking about that. We should come back to that later, I guess.
<sabdfl> a brand is not a legal entity, it's "what people think about you"
<wgrant> dholbach: http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
<erichammond_> o/ - Don't want to get into arguments, but am willing to make a short statement when it's ok to fit it in.
<sabdfl> mdke's point, i think, is that this use of the Ubuntu brand will mean that people think differently about Ubuntu
<sabdfl> go ahead eric, if you have it pre-prepped
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: indeed.
<erichammond_> Even if the name fits the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, I suggest Canonical may wish to consider the feelings of the community.
<Vantrax> Ubuntu specifically is the distribution or related to the community support for the distribution. To me canonical represents the commercial aspect, and add on services. I kinda think the two should not be mixed, but I dont feel strongly about it
<erichammond_> I have to admit that when I first learned that Ubuntu One was commercial I felt uncomfortable.
<erichammond_> I worked through my feelings and listened to all of the different positions folks came out with subsequently, but must admit I would be very impressed with Canonical if you were to change the name to not included "Ubuntu".
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: if this keeps going ahead, anyhing and everything "ubuntu" is no longer free and open sourced.
<sabdfl> erichammond_: wrapped?
<erichammond_> that's all, thanks :)
<Hobbsee> sorry, any given thing.  and I think i've spoken out of turn, sorry
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: on this one, i think we want to keep multithreading to a minimum :-)
<sabdfl> it will make it easier for folks reading the logs
<sabdfl> wgrant: on Canonical's privileged position
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: yeah, sorry.  I was trying to agree to your synopsis of mdke's point, but was slow.
<wgrant> Certainly. It's a complex issue, and discussion is already convoluted enough.
<sabdfl> it's more or less a fact of life, as I see it, and one that is unlikely to be a surprise to most Ubuntu users or members of the community
<wgrant> sabdfl: Right, it's always going to be there.
<sabdfl> Canonical does try to set a high standard for the way it collaborates with the community on Ubuntu, but it's privileged position is a function of the fact that Canonical and Ubuntu were founded together, symbiotically, by design
<sabdfl> i hope we are a leader in how you do that well
<sabdfl> but i don't think it would be constructive to try to imagine a world where that symbiosis is broken
<wgrant> Oh no, I don't think so either.
<wgrant> It's beneficial to both.
<wgrant> But in this case, I think it's not clear exactly what role Canonical holds.
<sabdfl> if that's a surprise to folks in the community, i imagine they would migrate to other projects that don't have this issue (by design), like gentoo or debian
<sladen> dholbach: sorry, /me waves hand
<sabdfl> i think the we want to make sure there is room in the commercial ubuntu ecosystem for more companies than canonical, too
<sabdfl> but that's not to suggest that canonical's position should not, or would not, be privileged
 * mako finishes reading all the recent stuff on the bug
<Tm_T> sladen: hi son
<Hobbsee> (is there any debate on this?  This sounds like what everyone accepts to be true)
<sabdfl> how we define the line of "acceptable use of that privileged position", i don't know, other than to take matters on a case by case basis
<wgrant> That's probably why it has rarely come up before - but here we have a specific case.
<wgrant> I don't think it can be generally defined.
<sabdfl> yes, that's true
<mako> there's a few different ways to approach this issue
<elmo> mako: will you share them with us? :-)
<sladen> I'm trying to be fairly agnostic on this issue, and migrated it to the CC agenda to try and defuse the Won't Fix/New/Won't Fix/New fighting that was going on
<sabdfl> mako: he's laughing, btw ;-)
<mako> sorry, i'm trying to digest things a little bit
<mako> so the first way is about values, and presumabley the free software position in particular
<mako> the implication there would be that if the ubuntu one service were free, that would be fine
<mako> matt lee's comment on the bug (and a number of others) echo that position
<mako> another position is that this about the line between canonical and ubuntu
<mako> corey and mdke seem to take that position
<sabdfl> mako: free of charge, or franklin street free?
<mako> sabdfl: franklin street free in mattl's case
<mako> like, "the ubuntu name should be reserved for things that are totally free"
<wgrant> sabdfl: There are people in both camps, I believe. But more FSS-free.
<sabdfl> ok, let's talk about the values piece
<sladen> it could be franklin street, with the default setting, and website pointed at canonical
<mako> right
<wgrant> sladen: Somwhat like Launchpad will be in a couple of months. That sounds sane.
<mako> so i want to explore the second issue first
<sabdfl> it touches on the brand - "what does Ubuntu mean in people's minds", and the issue Hobbsee raised, which is the "free or not" one
<mako> because i think it's interesting
<sabdfl> mako: would you agree that ubuntu also stands for "it just works", and that we've been pragmatic on freedom to achieve that?
<mako> so if we argue that the issue is just about ubuntu and canonical, we might say that the problem with calling this program ubuntu one is that the software itself uses in the ubuntu brand (and the good will created by the community) to reinforce canonical's position
<mako> in a way that would be hard for other members to compete with
<sabdfl> in the past we've done binary drivers when we felt it was warranted, and while we took heat from some quarters for that, it was a decision driven by the brand of Ubuntu delivering the best possible experience with - broadly defined - free client apps?
<mako> so someone might say that if there were some existing protocal that ubuntu one was using
<wgrant> sabdfl: But those drivers were, and still are, forced on us by hardware manufacturers.
<mako> and existing implications, etc
<mako> then it would be ok
<mako> so jabber might be a good example
<wgrant> sabdfl: Here we have proprietary software created just next to the community.
<wgrant> sabdfl: It's very different.
<sladen> I'm hopeful that since ubuntu one shares a name/intended functionality so intimately with Ubuntu, it could live at  www.ubuntu.com/one/   Then comes the question of what critia it would have to meet to be featured there.  (eg. the Ubuntu.com/employment page does not exclusively feature Canonical jobs, but those that are relevant, interesting, and add value)
<sabdfl> wgrant: we are not forced to use them, we chose to
<wgrant> sabdfl: There was very strong reason to.
<mako> if canonical made an im service that used jabber. they shouldn't call the SERVICE UbuntuTalk, but they could call the client UbuntuTalk and have it default to using the CanonicalTalk servers
<sabdfl> sladen: it's a good point re ubuntu.com/employment
<sabdfl> mako: i'm willing to bet that the ubuntu archives have long held packages which talk proprietary protocols
<wgrant> sabdfl: And I can see the good reasons to integrate a service like Ubuntu One into the desktop.
<sabdfl> pidgin?
<sabdfl> samba?
<mako> sabdfl: i am trying to separate those issues
<sladen> sabdfl: but none of those have the name 'Ubuntu' in them
<Flannel> sabdfl: There isn't a conflict of interest in the usage of binary drivers, no one who made the decision to use them benefits from their usage (except from having hardware that works, etc)
<Flannel> Although, that may be off topic for this thread.
<sabdfl> Flannel: not directly, but they benefit from the adoption of Ubuntu
<mako> sabdfl: forget about whether ubuntu contains proprietary protocals. this is about proprietary protocals CALLED ubuntu which reinforce
<sabdfl> mako: at least for the moment, I *think* all the protocols are in fact implemented by code which is free
<Flannel> sabdfl: Yes, and the same benefit would come to Canonical if the service were named Canonical One
<mako> sabdfl: it's about using the goodwill associated with the brand that the community feels some degree of attachment to and responsibility for to reinforce one companies market position
<sabdfl> but, i take the point that if they aren't then it becomes an issue, and it might
<sabdfl> so, coming back to the brand itself
<mako> i am no position to tell canonical how to run its business, although i'll be happy to make suggestions :)
<sabdfl> mako: and you'll always find willing ears there ;-)
<sabdfl> i don't think it's right to say that "ubuntu == FLOSS" on the client side
<mako> this issue is about ubuntu. and it's important that we be able ot have that converstion separately
<sabdfl> we have binary drivers and firmware blobs, and don't devote a lot of cycles to agonising over that
<mako> the reason that corey and mdke and many others on the bug seem to upset is that they feel that this blurs the line between the two
<sabdfl> we also have mechanisms for skype and similar (acroread, flash etc)
<sabdfl> it's also not new for the trademark itself to denote something commercial
<mako> there's a funny relationship between proprietariness and this way of framing the issue
<sabdfl> for example, the authors of the official ubuntu book asked for that, for commercial reasons
<Vantrax> again sabdfl I think the issue is none of these bear the Ubuntu name, and most people think of it in different terms
<sabdfl> and it was licensed that way to them by canonical
<sladen> sabdfl: Ubuntu == "just works" "coolness" "I won't get screwed up" "hipness" "brown desktop"
<wgrant> sabdfl: But the Ubuntu book is about Ubuntu.
<wgrant> Ubuntu One doesn't seem to be...
<sabdfl> similarly, Official Ubuntu Partners get the use of the name on commercial terms
<elmo> wgrant: that's disingenuous
<Tm_T> indeed it's matter of having Ubuntu in the name there, not if Ubuntu contains something or not
<sabdfl> training partners, hardware partners, isv's
<elmo> wgrant: Ubuntu One is absolutely about helping the users of Ubuntu
<elky> there has already been confusion in terms of community support avenues and even media. -marketing has had at least one journo that i'm aware of wander in there asking about One. the support side is only going to continue whilever the name is the same.
<elmo> wgrant: just as much as the book is
<mako> sabdfl: sure, and part of the requirement was that the book being freely licensed
<mako> sabdfl: which it is
<sabdfl> in that case, yes, but not in all cases
<mako> i would object to having a book being called "The Official Ubuntu Book" if it were not freely licensed (not to mention that i wouldn't work on it)
<mako> people are prefectly able to go about making ubuntu books
<dholbach> (Regarding the protocol bit of the discussion: as I understand it the ubuntuone-storage-protocol package is AGPL3.)
<Hobbsee> is there a requirement that everything containing "ubuntu" needs to be freely licenced, though?  Should there be?  Is this what the issue actually falls back to?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: what about multiverse and restricted?
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: i don't believe there is such a requirement, and i think it would be harmful to try to retrofit one now
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i was meaning what gets distributed on cds, in media, etc.
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: right
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: then my third question is "does the community perceive that that is the requirement?"
<sabdfl> we have always walked a careful, pragmatic line
<dholbach> Hobbsee: but still it's "Ubuntu Multiverse" and "restricted" ends up on the CDs
<mako> Hobbsee: so, i think that's a good idea but that doesn't address the issue here
<mako> i can go back to the jabber example
<mako> if canonical runs a jabber service, there's an open question of whether they should EVER call it UbuntuTalk
<Hobbsee> right
<mako> even if they run unmodified ejabberd or something
<sabdfl> why, mako? i'm not sure i understand
<mako> i'm pretty comfortable that as long as the client is free, it should/can named ubuntu
<elmo> mako: the u1 client is free?
<elmo> it's GPLed
<mako> yes, i know
<mako> but there's a service necessary to use it
<wgrant> (and the service also carries the Ubuntu brand)
<elmo> mako: well; that's an interestingly broad definition of 'free'
<mako> it's hard to unpack the two
<mako> elmo: i'm not talking about whether its free
<sladen> IIRC, previously, we've worked quite hard to ensure packages that could potentially benefit others (and which, we'd like to encourage the use of by others) don't use the word "ubuntu' in the software name, or branding ("eg. Ubuntu Menu Editor")  'ubuntuone-storage-protocol' fails that (to my mind) by it conflates a protocol description (reusable) with an implementation
<Hobbsee> mako: so what you're actually saying is that you're comfortable as long as the client, and at least the core things that are necessary for it, are free, right?
<mako> i'm saying that calling the particularly instance of server software running on a canonical machine "ubuntu" is one way to understand the issue
<Hobbsee> er, necessary for it to be used, are free
 * mako nods to sladen
<mako> part of the reason this is complicated is that it's not clear WHAT we are talking about
<elmo> sladen: I'm pretty sure those kind of name changes (e.g jockey too) was to make the software more palatable to !Ubuntu distros like Fedora
<mako> there is (a) the client software (b) the server software (c) the protocal (d) the particular instance of the server software being run as a service by canonical
<sladen> elmo: why should that not apply to ubunet?  What's paletable to Fedora is probably paletable to community.*@ubuntuland
<elmo> sladen: *blink* wut
<wgrant> mako: Given that there are no alternative server implementations, are those things separate?
<elmo> sladen: Fedora didn't want to use something called 'Ubuntu'.  I'm not sure I see your analogy
<Hobbsee> elmo: it's the opposite, you're agreeing with each other
<Hobbsee> sladen: the question is, is ubuntuone-storage-protocol actually usable by anyone else, who isn't ubuntu?
<mako> wgrant: right, so there's an argument that since the whole point of this software is make all these things transparent to the user, they should be presented as one
<mako> in which, if we decided that those things imply differences courses of action with the name, we've got a lowest common demonitor problem i think
<silbs> mako: can I back up a sec to your jabber example? do you think that would be wrong because Canonical would be running a service called Ubuntu? Or because of non-free aspects of it?
<wgrant> mako: Given that I don't really see Ubiquity asking 'Which service do you want Ubuntu One to use?', I think they should be one thing for now.
<mako> silbs: i'm trying to unpack the example by giving a free software everywhere example
<mako> silbs: so free jabber client, free jabber protocal, server install of free software
<silbs> mako: so your issue (in that example) is that it is canonical providing the service that is called ubuntu?
<mako> silbs: so it's a question about where the line between canonical and ubuntu is drawn
<sabdfl> i don't see the difference between cases where Canonical licenses someone else to use the Ubuntu name commercially, and where it does so itself
<wgrant> sabdfl: Canonical isn't likely to deny its own requests.
<sabdfl> for example, there's a new magazine called "Ubuntu User"
<mako> silbs: if canonical runs a jabber service called talk.ubuntu.com, for pay or for a fee, it really sounds like an activity of canonical
<sabdfl> they get that name under a commercial license from Canonical
<sabdfl> Canonical doesn't publish the magazine
<sabdfl> but, if it DID, that wouldn't be any different, would it?
<mako> there's no reasonable way tha the community can become involved in its development. if people disagre with some aspect of how its run, access the code doesn't actually help
<elmo> mako: how is this different to e.g. the forums?
<sabdfl> which run on vBulletin?
<silbs> mako: as another example, canonical runs an Ubuntu certificaiton service for OEMs (which we get paid for) that restuls in little stickers on machines that say "Ubuntu Certified". It's a canonical service, it's commercial.
<elmo> and which Canonical host
<silbs> mako: good or bad on that?
<elmo> (but do not control, to be clear)
<Vantrax> at this stage I dont really think there is a way of everyone to be happy, and I think the issue is getting more confusing. I think sabdfl is right in that they canonical can license itself, but for such a public service the CC should at least be aware that it is coming
<mako> elmo: sure, or the website, or the mailing lists
<sabdfl> on the brand issue, i think we need to recognise that different people will be drawn to the project for different reasons
<mako> elmo: what if the forums were pay to play?
<sabdfl> and will tend to assume that THEIR reasons are the defining characteristics of the brand
<elmo> just as a data point, Canonical get on the order of ~100 trademark requests a month
<sabdfl> elmo: more, i think
<sabdfl> the CC simply cannot handle that
<elmo> mako: so, you know u1 is not exclusively pay to play, right?
<sabdfl> and in any event, there's no question of ceding the trademark to the CC
<mako> elmo: yes, i understand
<wgrant> elmo: Wow, I didn't think it would be anywhere near that many!
<sabdfl> so, on the brand front, the reality is that Ubuntu itself is squarely in the "pragmatic, effective blend of commercial and community approach"
<sladen> elmo: the current T&C state: "You shall indemnify Canonical in full for any ... cost ... as a result of your use ... of the services."  (which is the reason why I have not signed up)
<sabdfl> that's caused friction in the past, and will in the future, but it's also the source of many of the things that people love about ubuntu
<mako> elmo: one importatn difference with the forums and this, is that the cc ultimately oversees the forums and its administration
<sabdfl> there are other projects that take different positions
<sabdfl> debian is not even the most fundamental of the positions, considering their kernel GR's
<Tm_T> sabdfl: agreed on that, commercial side cannot be put aside
<sabdfl> so, where do we stand
<Vantrax> Even more the commercial side is critical to the success of ubuntu
<mako> silbs: i think i can bring this back to u1 now more explicitly
<sabdfl> we still have to address the heads-up question from vantrax (i.e. what can the CC reasonably expect to hear about and consider before it gets announced?)
<sabdfl> go ahead mako
<mako> if there was a program called the "u1 synchronization client" and it opened up and said, "we can communicate with a variety of services including: (a) canonical's hosted storage engine (b) other one here (c) etc" that seems like it would be more clearly on the other side of the line
 * wgrant would be very happy with that.
<Tm_T> mitsutaka: jumpy there
<mako> because it would be making it clear that the canonical service was canonical
<Vantrax> good call mako
<mako> and i *think* that would speak to the criticism raised by both corey and mdke (although i'm hesitant to speak for them)
<sladen> succinctly put
<Hobbsee> agreed.  I can't see why it wouldn't.
<elky> it would certainly be less confusing
<sabdfl> mako: i don't think it would
<sabdfl> it is more addressed at the question of Canonical's privileged position
<SteveA> when I went to the US a while ago, I tried to place a long distance call from a phone.  I found it confusing because an operator asked me what long distance service I wanted to use, rather than just letting me place the call.
<wgrant> sabdfl: That seems to address the privileged position, at least somewhat.
<wgrant> U1 is no longer a thing in which only Canonical can play.
<Flannel> sabdfl: No, because "Ubuntu One" would be the client, that connects to Canonicals servers.
<sabdfl> this is tricky because profit is evil, nobody would suggest we make people choose who should pay for their updates ;-)
<mako> sure
<mako> that's fine. but that's  business decision by canonical
<sabdfl> my point is that ubuntu already points to Canonical servers in many places, and we don't insist on adding options there
<sladen> SteveA: Currently, we have IRC clients that default to irc.ubuntu.com (Freenode).  However, you can change it.  The IRC client is not restricted to _only_ working with irc.ubuntu.com and neither is it called "IRCUbuntu"
<wgrant> The Ubuntu archives, while hosted by Canonical, are open to community involvement.
<mako> as as someone on the ubuntu community council, i'm very hesitant to empower companies doing that sort of business call that work ubuntu
<ccm> actually this reminds on ekiga which is a main desktop app suggesting you to use diamondcard as commercial provider while still being able to talk to other services though the support for ekiga is the most advanced in ekiga
<sabdfl> it has been very useful, in the past, to be able to exercise discretion on that empowerment
<wgrant> mako: But does the CC have any power here?
<mako> i want canonical to be able to make business decisions without having to worry about what ubuntu thinks
<sabdfl> the book example is useful, we were able to negotiate the free licensing, for example
<sabdfl> there are third-party services we would like to integrate, and using the Ubuntu trademark as leverage would probably get the clients open sourced
<sabdfl> and who knows, perhaps even the servers
<sabdfl> my point is that we have long used discretion in how the commercial terms around the ubuntu brand get used
<mako> if the book where not something that could be reworked, reimagined, and redeployed by the community, i would have had an issue calling it "official ubuntu"
<sabdfl> and the net effect has been to enhance the Ubuntu ecosystem
<sladen> say somebody wants to make "Ubuntu t-shirts", is it okay to simply ask that they allow others to be able to also sell Ubuntu t-shirts?
<sabdfl> and this is no different
<mako> this is where the issue of privledged position and proprietary sort of intersect in a weird way
<sabdfl> mako: in part, because you know that a remix of the book would not itself be official, but would be a good source of updates for the next edition?
<sabdfl> Vantrax asked about the relationship between the CC and Canonical, and whether the CC should have had the name Ubuntu One raised to them in advance
<sabdfl> given the volume of trademark requests, i don't think we want the CC on the loop on all of them
<sabdfl> though i think it may be possible to have a window through which the CC could watch that process
<wgrant> This one was obviously going to cause conflict.
<sabdfl> i don't know the trademark workflow and whether that's possible
<mako> i agree, our goal here should be to help build the guidelines or intuition for that
<sabdfl> a lot of it is confidential - people send us their business plans
<sabdfl> and it would not be appropriate to publish it
<mako> having received trademarks@ubuntu.com before, i have no real interest in doing it again :)
<Hobbsee> well, this is simple
<elmo> mako: but this time you wouldn't even get paid!
<silbs> mako: lol
<sabdfl> shucks, mako, thought we'd get you there ;-)
<sladen> sabdfl: of those 100 requests/month, how many result in exclusive deals that might lock out future (competing, and/or genetically improved) equivalent uses?
<Hobbsee> if the canonical trademarks judges it to be OK, then it gets passed to the CC to see if they think it's OK, if it contains 'ubuntu'
<sabdfl> sladen: some do, most don't
<Flannel> Why not let the Ubuntu Foundation handle it?
<sabdfl> some people say "i will only invest in this if I can have exclusive rights", and sometimes it's reasonable
<Flannel> isn't that what it's for?
<sabdfl> Flannel: nup :-)
<elky> Flannel, no.
<Hobbsee> most things will get stopped at the canonical trademark level
<elky> Flannel, it's a name and a promise.
<wgrant> It's not what it's for, but IMO it's what it should be for.
<mako> sabdfl: in general, i think we should be careful about exclusive licenses (which i am sure you all are)
<sabdfl> i wish there was a simple statement that COULD be made about the relationship between commerce and the brand
<sabdfl> mako: +1
<Flannel> to quote sabdfl: "It's important for us to distinguish the philanthropic and non-commercial work that is at the heart of the Ubuntu project, from the commercial support and certification programs that are the focus of Canonical Ltd."
<sabdfl> Flannel: the trademark licenses are often explicitly commercial
<Flannel> sabdfl: For the other companies
<mako> we need to remember that there are different types of use of the mark
<mako> most are basically descriptive or pointing TO ubuntu
<mako> something like a t-shirt that is about ubuntu
<mako> the t shirt is not claiming to actually BE ubuntu
<sabdfl> on Vantrax's question, i think we could have anticipated the concern raised by U1, and raised it with the CC in advance
<mako> ubuntu one is on the other side of that line, with important implications
<sabdfl> i don't think that would have meant there was then no concern, but it would have been a good idea, with hindsight
<sabdfl> "The Ubuntu Shop"
<Vantrax> the CC should have been able to limit the damage definately
<elky> it certainly would have been less of a shock to the system, so to speak.
<Vantrax> and conserns about the way things ran could have been resolved. I think some of the reaction has been a basic 'knee jerk'
<sabdfl> i think folks hugely underestimate the extent and diversity of the trademark / commercial ecosystem now
<sabdfl> the issue here is that U1 is "tightly integrated"
<mako> so i like it! and i actually want to see the mark as widely used as possible
<Vantrax> sabdfl im sure they do, but some people will always think of it as a small core.
<sabdfl> it's by no means the first proprietary service that's tightly integrated
<mako> it's really in our interest to get the ubuntu name out there
<sabdfl> consider Google search in Firefox
<sladen> another interesting question is;  if Ubuntu One gets in the news (eg. stolen data), would that have a negative and detrimental impact on the brand.  Is that same risk assessment undertaken for all trademark reqeuests
<mako> sabdfl: but it's the first one called ubuntu
<mako> (AFAIK)
<sabdfl> sladen: Imagine a headline "Canonical One data stolen, many Ubuntu users mad"
<sabdfl> apart from the fact that the Canonical One name is *taken* ;-)
<Vantrax> lol
<Hobbsee> rename the plane "Canonical two" then :P
<elky> Hobbsee, that'd ruin it though.
<sabdfl> my point is that whatever we call it, it will be intimately associated with Ubuntu
<sladen> UbuntuTwoYou (U2U)
<sabdfl> and so, it had better work, and work well :-)
<mako> sabdfl: but nobody confuses google search for ubuntu
<Flannel> nor google for firefox
<mako> sabdfl: even though they understand that it's tightly integrated
<Vantrax> I think in the end we have to trust that Canonical will try and do the right thing and attempt to overlook when something is not what we would have expected. That being said I think the relationship imples a level of two way communication on what is going on, and what major products are being launched with the ubuntu trademark
<mako> the general argument is of the form of "if things are going to be called ubuntu and shipped in the os, they should actually be ubuntu"
<mako> that doesn't solve the problem at all :)
<sabdfl> mako: i don't think Ubuntu One is not Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> mako: then one just redefines ubuntu.
<sabdfl> it's high quality, it's well integrated, the client software is all free
<mako> i don't think it's a redefinition
<sabdfl> it's moving the goalposts *substantially* to broaden the definitions we have applied, now that Canonical is engaged
<mako> imho, sabdfl and others made a very smart decision by not calling canonical "ubuntu ltd."
<Vantrax> If I can give a slightly different example, the learning project recived permission from canonical to use the ubuntu trademark and proceed with the project, but we are still turning up to the next community council meeting to more or less pitch the idea again
<Flannel> sabdfl: Will Canonical be providing copious amounts of details about how its run, etc, so that the LoCos can answer the questions we're going to get about it?
<mako> and i think it's worth preserving that distinction. even if we have to flirt with it
<Vantrax> Based on this as a technicality it would not be *required*, but it is the right thing to do.
<sabdfl> Flannel: yes, you'll find good answers in #ubuntuone
<Flannel> sabdfl: Is there a fact sheet?  I don't really want to visit an IRC channel in front of someone while at a Conference
<Technoviking> also a Ubuntu One forum
<sabdfl> Flannel: ask for one, it's a good idea
<Technoviking> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=367
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=367
<mako> so i think i have one more observation
<Flannel> I imagine my next conference will be about Ubuntu One instead of Ubuntu, I'd like to be prepared.
<elky> from a support perspective, the least amount of bouncing around, the better. currently it's alot of bouncing.
<Flannel> sabdfl: bug report? or what?
<mako> i know have one more. i might have more after that :)
<mako> i'm worried by the bug report
<dholbach> Vantrax: I think the CC "recognised" teams and community initiatives before,  but that had nothing to do with trademarks or allowing them to work on something
<sabdfl> Flannel: on the channel, would be best
<mako> i'm seeing a real canonical non-canonical split on this. at least on the cc and in general on the bug
<Technoviking> mako: I'm fine with Ubuntu One name
<sabdfl> i agree, we don't want this to turn into a divisive issue along those lines
<mako> Technoviking: sure, it's not perfect. it's just a general sense that i think holds
<Vantrax> I actually like it too
<sabdfl> in my case, i see two very different futures for ubuntu, depending on how well Ubuntu One is received, and works, technically and commercially
<mako> i'm sure we can find canonical people that don't. i'm trying trying to pigeon hole people :)
<mako> sorry, NOT
<mako> NOT trying. whoops :)
<elky> very trying.
<sabdfl> i don't know the extent to which non-Canonical would be aware of the delta between those futures :-)
<sabdfl> to a certain extent, the financial drivers of Ubuntu are opaque to non-Canonical folks
<sabdfl> they would find it hard to know what would STOP if Canonical stopped
<Technoviking> mako: since Ubuntu One will not be a require to use Ubuntu, if feel in is a community mebers choice to use it or not.
<sabdfl> and Ubuntu One is a significant portion of the consumer plan around Ubuntu, that justifies the investment, in the expectation that it will underwrite the ongoing cost of the operation
<sabdfl> folks within Canonical are more likely to be aware of that
<mako> sure. but i think that canonical is well served by having ubuntu be an identity distinct, in most important senses, from canonical
<sabdfl> we had a lot of debate about the name, on those grounds
<Technoviking> s/mebers/members
<sabdfl> in the end, we settled on the idea that we want an integrated experience, from start to finish
<Vantrax> I really like the idea of the service and what can be done with it, but I would have expected it to see canonical branding as a commercial service. But I understand the choice, and am happy to support it
<sabdfl> we don't want Ubuntu One to feel like something that was bolted on by someone else
<sladen> sabdfl: but is that ubuntuone working as in just a filesync system, or is that ubuntuone as a brand encompassing many, many (separate, but integrated) sub-product covering EC2 compatible virtual machines, out-of-the-box VoIP signups, eg.   In the same way that Java is "all or nothing" for Sun (even as far as the ticker symbol), and yet Java is just a brand, that covers many things that share nothing with Java (virtual machine) other than from the 
<sabdfl> we *want* it to feel like it Just Works, and delivers great benefits, and does so using free software
<sabdfl> sladen: in due course, i hope there will be a broad Ubuntu One ecosystem, just as we have a broad Ubuntu ecosystem
<wgrant> sabdfl: Not a Free server, though.
<wgrant> sabdfl: A Free client is only part of the way.
<sabdfl> some of those players will have free servers (identi.ca is a good example) and some won't
<sabdfl> wgrant: that's a different set of goalposts, and not one we aim for right now
<sabdfl> wgrant: consider Firefox + Google
<mako> in the process though, you're eliding a distinction that i think is very important to a community whose continued existnace is at least part based on the idea that they don't want to feel like they are volunteering for a for-profit entity
<sabdfl> we can play towards that agenda, but we are not tied to that agenda
<mako> sabdfl: identi.ca is a great example
<mako> sabdfl: because the identi.ca software has a different name
<mako> identi.ca is the company/instance. laconi.ca is the software
<Myrtti> Control Yourself Inc is the company ;-)
<mako> Myrtti: i was eliding things myself a little bit :)
<Myrtti> fairy nuff :-)
<sabdfl> if someone (or Canonical) builds an identi.ca infrastructure into Ubuntu One, that would be an example of the place some folks would like us to go
<mako> the reason i think this is important is because that i think a sense of community ownership is basically essential to elicit contributions
<wgrant> Can this 'someone' actually call this thing Ubuntu One?
<sabdfl> to be clear, if anyone has a really good plan as to how we could drive Ubuntu One to being in line with the Franklin Street statement, sustainably, Canonical would listen
<sabdfl> at the moment, we don't see that being the case
<wgrant> You've implied a couple of times that Ubuntu One isn't actually just Ubuntu One.
<sabdfl> but, over time, that may change
<elky> wgrant, are you asking 'can' or 'should'?
<Vantrax> wgrant its a platform for services, remote file storage seems to be just the intro
<sabdfl> for now, i think the best we can do is minute this discussion
<wgrant> elky: The former.
<sladen> my hunch is that Canonical can do a better job of running an instance of ubunet-sync and ubunet-cluster under the Franchised UbuntuOne brand than other people.  Time may come when the it would be more profitable to outsource the running of the instance under the franchised brand to somebody else and just take the profit percentage.  It would be good if that possibility was allowed for by not having the instance name == implementation name == Servi
<wgrant> sabdfl: What changed with Launchpad?
<sabdfl> sladen: in my judgment, the margins driven purely by economies of scale are insufficient to justify the risk of the investment
<sabdfl> so, where do we stand?
 * Vantrax is happy to support Ubuntu One
<sabdfl> i hoped to nail the legal issues (i think we did that)
<mako> sabdfl: sure, there are no legal issues
<sladen> Ubuntu (to me) should be the CD, UbuntuOne should be the best available online service portfolio that be shipped as default settings.  If some of those don't make the cut for a particular release, they could be switched on, or switched off in the same way that other (offline) componets in main are
<sabdfl> i also hoped to get past the "free or else" meme, which I think is inconsistent with what we've done successfully in the past
 * Hobbsee is now just confused as to what Ubuntu stands for now, tbh
<sabdfl> vantrax raised the question of the CC's general level of awareness, and i think (s)he has a point
<sabdfl> i also hoped to get some sort of general guidance on "where the line is" w.r.t. online services
<sabdfl> but i don't think we have that, here
<wgrant> I don't think the line can be defined.
<sladen> That would open up the criteria for what should be included as part of that portfolio (it should be good quality, it should be well integrated, it should "just work", probably it should be franklin free, (_not_ beer free).  It should add to the quality and experience of using Ubuntu
<mako> i can think about it. i might be able to come up with something that describes a line i would be happy with
<sabdfl> sladen: Last.fm?
<elky> sabdfl, i think the lingering issue is that of the dilution of brand, which is probably as much simply human territoriality for something that many people care a heck of a lot about.
<elky> and it's probably not going to go away any sooner than the k/x/ed/ubuntu dilution itself will.
<mako> this not about what services should be accessible from within ubuntu
<mako> this *is* about what services should be accessible from within ubuntu and *called* ubuntu
<Hobbsee> and thus what ubuntu actually stands for, i presume
<sabdfl> elky: my answer to that is that we have to be clear to our community that we are comfortable with services which are not Franklin Street compliant
<sabdfl> we won't take out Google
<sabdfl> we won't take out MSN from Pidgin
<sladen> sabdfl: Last.fm could be included (hint, take 20% for signing the user up and charging their credit card).  The other conflict of interest would be when CanonicalMusicStationPlus launches and there is an issue about whether to ship Last.fm as default, or ship CMSP as default).  If that is taken by the Ubuntu Foundation, the best (tm) one would be picked, regardless of who made it
<mako> sure, i've not heard anyone suggesting that
<sladen> s/other/only/
<sabdfl> they are all part of the experience of the Ubuntu system, by users
<sabdfl> we can and should figure out how we can support the Franklin Street statement
<sabdfl> just like we can and should (and do) work towards getting better open source drivers
<sabdfl> being open to Flash doesn't mean we don't support Gnash (we fund the latter)
<dholbach> sladen: it's best to leave the Ubuntu Foundation out of the discussion, it's basically a trust and not an entity
<sabdfl> some members of the community may be surprised by this, and choose to leave
<sabdfl> but those who are comfortable with this will help to build this experience
<elky> sabdfl, my point is that Ubuntu One redefines Ubuntu, and as alot of people identify with what Ubuntu *used* to encompass, it's going to take some time for adjustment. Some people may never adjust.
<mako> dholbach: right, the CC is only relevant body here
<sladen> dholbach: r. s/Ubnntu Foundation/CC/
<wgrant> sabdfl: We can't help build this experience. It's a proprietary service.
<sabdfl> wgrant: have you looked at the code?
<sabdfl> i wasn't referring to Ubuntu One
<elmo> elky: why does Ubuntu One 'redefine' Ubuntu any more than e.g. 'Ubuntu Training' or 'Ubuntu Certification' or 'Ubuntu Partners' or 'Ubuntu Support' or etc. etc. etc?
<mako> the reaction to this issue shows that a number of (almost exlusively non-canonical people) feel that this use of ubuntu is referring to something that they don't identify with and that they identify (accurately, i think) with canonical instead
<sabdfl> I was referring to the whole experience of Ubuntu, which blurs these lines
<wgrant> sabdfl: Which code?
<wgrant> Ah.
<sladen> elmo: it's exclusive
<sabdfl> look, if someone wants to work inside an ecosystem that is solely defined by a single principle, there are places to do that
<sabdfl> Tututo?
<sabdfl> mako, help!
<sabdfl> but they exist
<elky> elky, because "Ubuntu" is no longer "a family of linux distributions" it's now "a family of linux distributions and a cloud service tacked on the side"
<elky> er, elmo^^
<sabdfl> what makes Ubuntu *interesting* is the fact that it aims to dislodge Apple and Microsoft
<mako> so firms in this space need to make a decision to offer a less integrated user experience because it's seen as being in the best interest of community empowerment
<sabdfl> you can't credibly be part of that in those other, more narrowly defined pieces
<sabdfl> and here, you CAN help build that alternative experience
<sabdfl> wgrant: make sense?
<mako> it happens all the time. it's annoying to have to explain that canonical is this company that funds most ubuntu development
<mako> when this would be clear if we just said "ubuntu ltd."
<sabdfl> so, here we stand
<wgrant> sabdfl: The alternative experience can never compete.
<wgrant> Ubuntu One gets the name and Ubuntu integration.
<sabdfl> Ubuntu (+One) aims to be the alternative to Windows / Apple
<sabdfl> those who WANT to be part of that, and help shape it, certainly can do so
<sabdfl> we have an enormous community that does just that
<sabdfl> people will choose to participate in the place that most aligns with their goals in life
<wgrant> I was under the impression that Ubuntu was intended to do that.
<sabdfl> if someone defines their goals as "GPL" they will not participate in X, right?
<sabdfl> right now, as far as I'm aware, there is no community that is defined as "FLOSS + Franklin St" w.r.t. software + services
<sladen> aka AGPL
<sabdfl> and i don't see a way for such a community to offer a credible chance of becoming an alternative to Windows / Apple
<sabdfl> i may be wrong
<mako> sure, all that's fine
<Flannel> sabdfl: So, instead youre going to try and define Ubuntu(+One) as FLOSS + Closed Source Cloud?  Or am I not following?
<sabdfl> but at the end of the day, to address wgrant's point, people who want to help build that alternative can do so here
<wgrant> sabdfl: How does non-freeness increase the feasibility of become an alternative to Windows or Apple? Simply the presumed increased income?
<sabdfl> Flannel: no, i'm defining it as FLOSS + Cloud [we will see how this goes]
<mako> but the issue here does not need to be whether we wish ubuntu one the best of luck
<wgrant> sabdfl: But this cloud is closed.
<sabdfl> some of the cloud stuff will be open, some closed, it's hard to see hwo ti pans out, let's get going
<Hobbsee> Flannel: the new aim is not to define ubuntu in terms of FLOSS at all - or at least, not to say that it's all free, because it isn't now.  And because one part isn't free, it's fine for other parts not to be free too.  I think.
<mako> the issue is whether canonical's own services (which happen to be proprietary, which may or may not be relevant) should be called ubuntu
<wgrant> sabdfl: I'm not aware that these other cloudy things have been referred to before now.
<dholbach> wgrant: "simply"?
<Flannel> Hobbsee: The other parts aren't free because they can't be.  This parts could be, but we're choosing to close them.
<mako> we don't have to care whether ubuntu refers to things that are free to be concerned that it be limited to things that are controlled by the community and its governance structures
<Vantrax> I have to head to bed, close to midnight for me, go easy on sabdfl. Hes trying to do the right thing.
<Hobbsee> Flannel: which, afaik, is immaterial.
<wgrant> dholbach: s/Simply/Only/
<mako> from what i can tell, ubuntu one is controlled by canonical and not by the ubuntu community and its governance community. so we should name it in a way that makes this clear
<mako> referring to ubuntu versus being ubuntu
<sladen> Vantrax: r.  And sabdfl will succeed in doing the right thing;  but not necessaryily a thing that everyone is immediately comfortable with
<mako> if it were called "Sync for Ubuntu" it would be much less problematic, IMHO
<wgrant> mako: That seems to be the core of the issue, although there are other bits hanging off it.
<sabdfl> mako: the experience of ubuntu includes those online services, there is no real benefit to be had from naming it otherwise
<wgrant> mako: That is what the trademark policy recommends, yes.
<sabdfl> and in any event, there is a very long list of things which have a commercial angle, which are named ubuntu, this is not a new event
<wgrant> sabdfl: No real obvious benefit for Canonical, no.
<mako> sabdfl: you are balancing volunteers desire to be involved in the project
<mako> which is my primary concern today
<sabdfl> mako: we have long done that. we know that many will choose to participate elsewhere.
<sladen> mako: Sync for ubuntu is one part of Ubuntu One, (which is intentionally blurred, in much the same as '.NET')
<Hobbsee> mako++
<mako> sabdfl: and this is seen, by many of your most active and engaged volunteers over the long term, as crossing a line
<sabdfl> my personal view is that this is not nearly the big change it is being described as
<sabdfl> that, if there is a line there, it was crossed a long time ago
<sladen> you open up the long list of available Ubuntu One subscription services, and you tick some of the ones listed (eg. Sync, 10G) and you don't tick some of the others
<wgrant> sabdfl: Which other proprietary service carrying the Ubuntu brand is there, that is also integrated into the desktop?
<elmo> mako: and is seen by many others of our most active and engaged volunteers over the long term as not crossing the line
<erichammond_> sabdfl: It's almost 6a here and I'm trying to parse your above statements which sound like "either you're with us or agin' us".  Are you saying that for one to support Ubuntu, one must support "Ubuntu One" a commercial service provided by Canonical?
<elky> sabdfl, there was never only one line.
<Hobbsee> That may be true, but this has been the first time it's been public, and in our faces.
<Hobbsee> A lot of people don't know about the training materials, for eg
<mako> elmo: i didn't say everyone, and i know it's not
<sabdfl> wgrant: hardware certification?
<sabdfl> i don't think we've made much progress
<elmo> wgrant: why is there this artifical distinction with 'integrated into the desktop'?
<wgrant> sabdfl: That does seem to need to be centralised, but it's not in your face in Ubiquity and integrated with the desktop.
<sabdfl> there are those with reservations, and among them are people i take very seriously
<elmo> wgrant: the part that's integrated into the desktop _IS_ free
<wgrant> elmo: No, the part that is *doing* the integration is free.
<elmo> (sorry, "may be integrated"; nothing is right now, not by default anyway)
<elmo> wgrant: the part (potentially) on the CD, and on the desktop and that the user is running is free
<sabdfl> i think the brand issue is being inflated because the folks who are concerned are most interested in that aspect of ubuntu; the broad base of contributors, participants and users see ubuntu as meaning "just works" as much as "free as I define free"
<sabdfl> mako said he would consider this further and write more
<wgrant> elmo: But it's the glue between Ubuntu and this proprietary thing named Ubuntu.
<sabdfl> i'd invite others to do the same, and to write to the CC
<wgrant> elmo: It is integrating the proprietary Ubuntu into the Free Ubuntu.
<mako> i think that a viable free software community succeeds as a volunteer project insofar as it can create an institutional independent space
<sabdfl> wgrant: there are proprietary things IN ubuntu, and long have been, and to pretend otherwise is not helpful
<sladen> I think there's another meeting on 2 June, would it be worth tieing it up now, letting mako (et al) try to quatify what's been said and bringing it back then?
<wgrant> sabdfl: I am not pretending otherwise.
<mako> if ubuntu is just a canonical product, i'm not interested in working on it and volunteering my time
<wgrant> sabdfl: Those proprietary things are not from Canonical.
<wgrant> sabdfl: They are included because it would be detrimental to the user experience, and their owners will not open them.
<sabdfl> mako: i'm surprised to hear you characterise it that way, on the basis of this issue
<mako> and my experience in the broader free software community seems to imply this is at least somewhat (if not entirely) generalizable experience
<mako> sabdfl: sorry, i'm not trying to charactertize it. the "if" actually meant "if"
<mako> sabdfl: not "if (and it is)"
<sabdfl> mako: in no way could the whole of Ubuntu be "just a Canonical product"
<sabdfl> Ubuntu is the product of tens of thousands of people, only a small fraction of them work for Canonical
<Hobbsee> The more stuff of nonfree nature that you call Ubuntu, the more it appears that way, though.
<sladen> "if Ubuntu were to become (in the future) just a"
<mako> sladen: yeah that ^^^^
<sabdfl> but yes, Canonical has a privileged position, and if that makes people uncomfortable they will find other projects to participate in
<sabdfl> my feeling is that this new piece is not a major shift in that regard
<wgrant> Many feel that it is.
<sabdfl> so yes, let's invite people to write to the CC
<elky> it is for some people though, regardless of if you want it to be.
<mako> so i'm not talking about shifts in policy
<cody-somerville> Ubuntu One isn't a commercial service. Ubuntu One as far as I understand is an open source platform for building cloud powered services on the desktop.
<mako> i'm talking about perceptions of "ownership"
<wgrant> you are not going to see it as a shift, as it has most probably been in the roadmap for years.
<sabdfl> the plan for the moment is that Karmic will include Ubuntu One services
<sabdfl> folks who are interested in how that is achieved, tastefully, should participate in the UDS sessions this week
<mako> so i'm not making my mind up based on any actual delta in policy, i'm making it up based on people's reactions
<sladen> mako: and it's not just Ubuntu geeks,  IIRC, the Guardian, or Telegraph had a piece entitled   "Ubuntu One, Freedom Nil"
<sabdfl> cody-somerville: that's a good point
<wgrant> cody-somerville: Are we aware of that yet?
<sabdfl> reactions are important, but they can also involve people with pitchforks and regrets in the morning, and i don't want to be associated with those, usually
<mako> i don't actually care what ubuntu one is. i care what it's relationship to the ubuntu community and to canonical is
<sabdfl> wgrant: that's the code I asked if you had looked at
<mako> and i want it to have a name that reflects that accurately
<wgrant> sabdfl: Which code?
<sabdfl> the point is that many of those reactions are knee-jerk. there is good, open code that is generally useful
<sabdfl> wgrant: OFFS. ubuntuone-*
<wgrant> sabdfl: I have.
<sabdfl> cool
<mako> the answer seems to be, "yes, it really is more a canonical product but we're naming it in a different way becaues it leads to a more integrated user experience"
<mako> sabdfl: the reactions by the people on the bug who are influencing my own thinking are not knee-jerk
<Hobbsee> mako: yeah, that's what I'm getting out of it.
<sladen> mako: I didn't see it as the integation, I saw it as Ubuntu have a more valuable (more likely to result in revenue) brand than "Canonical" or "Launchpad"
<sabdfl> let's wrap up. we have another meeting in a week. I would ask folks to write to the CC, and participate in the UDS sessions.
<sladen> mako: which is a sensible, commericial (and therefore good for Ubuntu development long-term) decision
 * mako nods
<cody-somerville> I think its named the way it is because of the (open source innovation)/platform/base its built on top of. Sort of like how Debian is titled Debian Linux/GNU, no?
<wgrant> cody-somerville: Or is the Ubuntu desktop going to, within a few releases, be called Ubuntu because of the platform/base it's built on top of (Ubuntu One)?
<sabdfl> i'm going to respond to the new questions on the linked bug
<sabdfl> i would encourage folks to ask questions on #ubuntuone
<sabdfl> and for wgrant to look at the code
<sabdfl> ;-)
<mako> i'll think about this some more and write something in the next week
<ibuclaw> For clarification, am I right in hearing that Ubuntu-One is currently just an integrated service that syncs/backups documents/files to a server (similar to the way DropBox works), but will extend for further services in the future?
<wgrant> sabdfl: I have, but not all of it! Is there anything in particular I'm meant to notice?
<mako> i'll make a log of this meeting and post it to the bug
<mako> or a link to it
<elky> ibuclaw, pretty much.
<sabdfl> wgrant: just that the technology is broadly and generally useful, all as open source, with no reference to a commercial service
<mako> i have a meeting i need to leave for in 5 minutes also :)
<wgrant> sabdfl: I'm not arguing against any of that.
<wgrant> I think it's a good idea.
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> well, at least we agree there's no trademark issue
<sabdfl> we disagree on the brand issue
<wgrant> Hm.
<mako> this was a useful discussion for me
<wgrant> I think there is a trademark issue. But not a legal one. But maybe that's what you refer to as branding.
<mako> even if we didn't come to a conclusion. i'm thinking a lot more clearly about this i think
<Hobbsee> this was certainly an illuminating discussion.
<mako> sabdfl: is there other business we want to handle today?
<Flannel> sabdfl: I'm not sure I have a concern over the branding now that I actually know what the service is going to be.
<Hobbsee> and will give people a lot more to think about, in how they wish to proceed.
<elky> mako, i'm not sure it's a topic that can have a conclusion.
<sabdfl> mako: no, this was it for today
<elky> (or ever should)
<wgrant> It was indeed quite illuminating, as I don't think we previously knew that Ubuntu One was a generic brand.
<mako> elky: it *will* have a conclusion
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody
<wgrant> I knew it was a sync service that had aspirations to be a general data store.
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:12.
<sabdfl> my hope is that we see a lot of cool franklin st stuff emerge, that uses Ubuntu One technology, which itself is all open
<cody-somerville> I'm very psyched about the possibilities myself :)
<wgrant> sabdfl: Ah, you mean Ubuntu One rather than Ubuntu One.
<wgrant> I see.
<wgrant> That makes a bit more sense.
<sabdfl> wgrant: *exactly* ;-)
<wgrant> But does the OSCON talk mean Ubuntu One, or Ubuntu One?
<wgrant> I took it to mean Ubuntu One.
<wgrant> But it might mean the other one, if you mean that.
<mako> later everyone
<sabdfl> cheers
<wgrant> Thanks everyone, I think it was a pretty productive discussion.
<ibuclaw> sabdfl, from the brief insight I've seen today, it certainly seems that it has great potential.
<sabdfl> thanks ibuclaw, i think so too
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-28
<marti1125> hello hola
<marti1125> e ubuntu does not have virus?
<marti1125> why ubuntu  have virus? why?
<bazhang> marti1125, support in #ubuntu
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> geser, jpds, persia: around?
 * asomething waves
<jpds> Afternoon.
<dholbach> hyperair, porthose, asomething, stefanlsd: around too?
<dholbach> hi asomething :)
<hyperair> i'm here =)
<stefanlsd> dholbach: hi, i'm here
<dholbach> rock and roll
 * geser waves
 * porthose waves
<dholbach> persia should be around in a bit
 * persia waves
<dholbach> ah great
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<jpds> Right, awesomeness.
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:03. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Chow Loong Jin's application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chow Loong Jin's application
<hyperair> oho. it begins
<dholbach> hyperair: how are you doing?
<hyperair> fine thanks =)
<dholbach> everything alright? :)
<dholbach> perfect
 * hyperair nods
<dholbach> in your application you say that you'd like to do other (and probably bigger) things in the future - do you have any ideas already?
<dholbach> any people you've worked with some more in the last time?
<hyperair> people i've worked with..
<hyperair> there's POX
<hyperair> and Dktrtranz (is that how you spell his name? i've been tab completing all the while)
<hyperair> as for ideas, no, i don't really do.
<dholbach> hyperair: DktrKranz - you were close enough :-)
<hyperair> whoops =p
<dholbach> hyperair: you're mostly interested in mono-related packages?
<jpds> hyperair: How are the mirror status on sg.r.u.c?
<hyperair> dholbach: not particularly, it just happens that banshee caught my interest.
<hyperair> dholbach: and its plugins, all of which are written in C#
<hyperair> er extensions
<dholbach> hyperair: I'm sure you make jcastro very happy because of that :)
<hyperair> jpds: it's holding up on its own for the time being =) i'm in malaysia and not within ssh-able reach of the server.
<hyperair> dholbach: i hope so =)
<hyperair> in fact, regarding banshee, i recently started a banshee-daily repository, and wrote a script (which i will probably put somewhere online) which git pull's and generates a changelog entry, builds, signs and uploads to the ppa
<dholbach> geser, persia: do you have any questions already?
<jpds> hyperair: That would make Mark happy :)
<persia> hyperair, You mention that you think you could collaborate better.  Could you share your plans to do so?
<dholbach> nice, I'm sure others would appreciate it, do you think it'd make sense to have something like that in ubuntu-dev-tools?
<hyperair> persia: team-maintain every package i maintain, instead of on my own, and discuss things with the team and possibly others
<persia> hyperair, OK.  In that case, perhaps you could explain how you don't collaborate enough now :)
<hyperair> persia: like i mentioned in my application, i don't really consider what i could possibly achieve by collaborating with others.
<hyperair> and regarding what i've done since the time i wrote the application, i've recently created a pkg-geany team to help maintain geany and its plugins in debian
<dholbach> hyperair: did you hear about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines already?
<hyperair> er no i didn't
<dholbach> (I noticed that you hadn't made use of it in bug 248705)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248705 in evolution-data-server "Evolution Exchange does not authenticate to Exchange servers with a relative path in the form action, e.g. "owaauth.dll"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248705
<dholbach> which is not a big deal, I just noticed :)
<hyperair> ah yes, i didn't. i actually submitted the fix upstream
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> i'll take note of this in the future
<dholbach> jpds, persia, geser: any more questions - I'm all set
<persia> hyperair, You mention you're using PPAs to handle stable backports of some applications.  Have you tried the ubuntu-backports process?
<jpds> I'm happy with his application.\
<hyperair> persia: not really. mostly because when i use the PPAs to handle these backports.. they're stuff that exceed what can enter the -backports
<hyperair> like new upstream releases which are more than bugfix releases
<hyperair> i did make use of the backports for banshee-extension-mirage though
<hyperair> but even then i still maintain that in the PPA.
<persia> -backports is precisely for that: to the degree that bugfixes aren't accepted in -backports.
<hyperair> hmm i'll go read up more about the process then
<dholbach> geser?
<geser> no questions
<dholbach> great, persia: all set too?
<persia> I'm all set.
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Chow Loong Jin become Contributing Developer?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Chow Loong Jin become Contributing Developer?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jpds> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<hyperair> correction: banshee-extension-mirage was by laney, not me. my memory's a bit messed up by that
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> #endvote
<dholbach> @endvote
<hyperair> =D
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> congratulations hyperair
<jpds> Congrats hyperair.
<stefanlsd> hyperair: congrats!
<hyperair> thanks =)
<Laney> \o
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Charlie Smotherman's application
<jmarki> whoopee hyperair!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Charlie Smotherman's application
<dholbach> hey porthose - how's life?
<hyperair> thanks jmarki =)
<davidc_> gong hei
<porthose> dholbach: can't complain
<dholbach> great :)
<dholbach> porthose: so you're requesting upload privileges for ampache{,-themes} and coherence
<dholbach> porthose: did you manage to establish a relationship to the debian coherence maintainers?
<porthose> dholbach: yes that is correct
<porthose> dholbach: yes I have, Arnaud has upload the new coherence-0.6.4 for me and should be auto synced this next go round
<dholbach> that sounds good
<dholbach> how is the bug situation of the 3 packages in debian/ubuntu?
<geser> dholbach: porthose is in Uploaders for coherence
<dholbach> geser: ah right, just spotted it in the application - thanks
<porthose> dholbach: I would consider it in pretty good shape, there are some that will be closed with some new releases once they are sponsored into debian
<dholbach> great... was it tough to stay on top of things happening in debian/upstream/ubuntu?
<porthose> dholbach: at times it is, but that is why I only concentrate on a very few packages, I try not to over commit myself
<dholbach> that makes sense
<dholbach> persia, geser, jpds: quesitons?
<jpds> None from me.
<geser> porthose: you mentioned that is's hard to get someone to review a package on REVU. Any ideas how one could improve that?
<persia> I'm set.  I'll also say that I've been involved in porthose's uploads of ampache, and was happy with the final results.
<porthose> geser: I have been tossing that around in my head for a long time, and really haven't come up with anything yet, but I have noticed that nhandler and RainCT have been really pushing REVU days and alot more packages are being uploaded, for now I guess just help out where I can
<dholbach> porthose: thanks for helping out there... geser: all set?
<geser> yes
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall the MC recommend Charlie Smotherman for upload privileges for ampache, ampache-themes and coherence?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall the MC recommend Charlie Smotherman for upload privileges for ampache, ampache-themes and coherence?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jpds> +1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> well done, porthose
<porthose> dholbach: ty
<dholbach> porthose: we'll let the TB know about it and they'll be in touch with you RSN
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Stefan Lesicnik's application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Stefan Lesicnik's application
<porthose> dholbach: ok and thanks again to everyone
<dholbach> stefanlsd: so what's your involvement exactly with LSD?
<dholbach> stefanlsd: anything we need to worry about?
<stefanlsd> dholbach: aah. no.  Linux System Dynamics is the name of my company. LSD is just catchy
<stefanlsd> dholbach: to remember that is :)
<dholbach> I was just kidding :)
<dholbach> how's your German lessons coming on?
<geser> stefanlsd: you know that there is no requirement to know german for becoming a MOTU? :)
<persia> geser, There isn't?
<stefanlsd> haha. es geht :)   grammer keeps getting me... but i can speak it ok. (maybe not high german, but austrian dialect)
<dholbach> stefanlsd: Wirst Du Dich jetzt erstmal auf Security-Arbeit konzentrieren?
<ScottK> dholbach: #ubuntu-de
<ScottK> ;-)
<dholbach> ScottK: I hope the international vocabulary like "Security" was understandable enough :)
<stefanlsd> dholbach: heh. I started doing a fair amount of stuff with the security team after a opendev week session with jd and kees asking for some help
<ScottK> dholbach: Certainly.
<dholbach> stefanlsd: what do you like best about it?
 * ScottK recalls seeing stefanlsd active on -security stuff.
<jpds> ScottK: Any clamav stuff?
<ScottK> He helped me solve some apparmor profile stuff (for clamav)
<stefanlsd> dholbach: i enjoy aspects of security (generally), i think ubuntu universe needs alot of work when it comes to security. I was very interested listening to UDS regarding a MoM way of merging / syncing debian security to us...
<stefanlsd> dholbach: I would like to put some effort into that process if I can
<dholbach> stefanlsd: anything that has your attention already?
<stefanlsd> dholbach: Using MoM to check debian security.  That should shorten our time to get things into universe security.  Biggest concern for me is regression and 'SRU' process with this
<dholbach> that makes sense
<stefanlsd> Security is very challenging as its essentially an SRU. So lots of careful testing needs to be done...
<dholbach> jpds, geser, persia: questions?
<jpds> stefanlsd: Have you worked with the Debian security team as well?
<stefanlsd> jpds: I havent worked with their team as such (online) - but i have included a number of their patches into our security, and also pushed patches to them.
<persia> stefanlsd, What strategis do you think we should use to encourage more contrinbuting developers?
<jpds> stefanlsd: Great.
<stefanlsd> jpds: wireshark patches def. Not sure why i dont see it in my forwarded to debian list...  (will need to check)
<stefanlsd> persia: Its tough. I am running a package jam here soon (tentative 27th June) - where I hope with actual face to face meetings, we'll be able to get some people. My biggest thing is telling people that you dont need to be a developer! (maybe the term is misleading) - Like dholbach says - its more detective work...
 * dholbach gives stefanlsd a big hug :)
<stefanlsd> persia: I was chatting to mok0 regarding REVU and how to improve that also...
<stefanlsd> persia: I think that MOTU's are afraid to advocate?  (not sure here, discussion needed), but its kinda like, if i advocate and i'm wrong, what will others think?
<stefanlsd> We need to all get involved and all help each other out, and learn from it
<jpds> It's important to recognize that we all make mistakes and learn from them.
<stefanlsd> Maybe some form of a REVU Mentor?
<vorian> that's a good idea
<stefanlsd> I know I still have stuff to learn on packaging... mok's session was excellent on REVU
<dholbach> jpds, geser, persia: any more questions from you?
<jpds> I'm cool.
<geser> no
<dholbach> persia: still around? :)
<persia> stefanlsd, Could you outline the licensing requirements for a package to be included in universe vs. multiverse?
<stefanlsd> persia: not my strongest point   (hence the review!) - but my understanding is that all the source must be fully redistributable
<persia> Well, that's true for both multiverse and universe.  Are you able to describe the difference?
<stefanlsd> persia: multiverse would contain software that is not free but is able to be distributed
<dholbach> persia: all set?
<persia> Sure.
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Stefan Lesicnik become a MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Stefan Lesicnik become a MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jpds> +1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +0.  I'm concerned about consideration of licensing, especially with a specific desire to be involved in sponsoring and REVU.
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<dholbach> persia: what more do you expect from Stefan?
 * persia looks at stuff harder
<stefanlsd> persia: I think its something I can get better at. I also know that there are various avenues of finding out if I am not sure
<persia> Yeah.  I guess it's that I'd like to see a bit more of that before I say +1.
<persia> I'm *very* happy with a large number of components of the application otherwise, which is part of why I pause when asked what more I want.
<stefanlsd> persia: ok. np.
<dholbach> persia: do you think you can talk to stefanlsd outside this meeting to clarify about what you'd like to see?
<dholbach> just so Stefan knows when to come back
<persia> I'd be *very* happy to do that.
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> stefanlsd: thanks a lot for your great work and keep it up!
<stefanlsd> persia: thanks. would appreciate that too.
<persia> stefanlsd, I'll try to work with you in time that you can make the next meeting, or, worst case, the one following.
<stefanlsd> np. thanks for everyone's time :)
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Andrew Starr-Bochicchio's application
<MootBot> New Topic:  Andrew Starr-Bochicchio's application
<dholbach> asomething: still around? :)
<asomething> yep!
<dholbach> perfect!
<geser> I've to leave in about 15 min
<dholbach> geser: questions? :)
<dholbach> asomething: do you have an idea how to automatically add "(LP: #1234567)" to debian/changelog? :-)
 * nixternal is here
<asomething> ya, that's some thing that I've forgotten sometimes, bBut most of them had to do with building the package before filing a sponsorship bug. Something that I hopefully won't be doing for universe any more. =)
<geser> asomething: how will you make sure that bugs gets closed for uploads where you forget the (lp: #xxx)?
<jpds> nixternal: Better late than never!
<asomething> Geser: I follow up on my work so I can always close it manually
<geser> oh good, so nixternal can replace me if we aren't done in 15 min :)
<dholbach> persia, jpds: any questions?
<dholbach> asomething: what was your experience when you worked with debian?
<jpds> asomething: I usually add LP: ## to changelogs as I fix the stuff so it's done, don't you like automatically closing stuff? :)
<persia> asomething, Could you outline some of the special considerations involved when packaging a theme?
<dholbach> asomething: what was it like when you worked on stuff with the desktop team?
<asomething> dholbach: generally my experience with debian has been good, I maintain a few packages my selfy and I've got good relations with some maintainers of stuff im interested in
<nixternal> asomething: what are your plans for future packages? sticking specifically with GNOME based desktop packages, or are you looking to expand out into other areas?
<nixternal> honestly, we have enough GNOME packages, so what makes you stand out?
<nixternal> s/packages/packagers
<asomething> persia: as i'm finding out with gnome-colors, checking copyright is important, artists dont check things as much as software devs
 * nixternal notes that you can never have enough really
<dholbach> nixternal: I'll tell seb128 about that - you'll never have a quiet day in your life again
<nixternal> remember, I am a volunteer!
<nixternal> ;P
<asomething> nixternal: well, I'm mostly concerned with GTK+ stuff, but generally there is a lot of stuff out there with fixes already availiable I want to find those thing and fix them
<asomething> like I say in my app, I'm interested in continuing to pick off the low hanging fruit but also helping to get more people involved with it as well, training ect
<nixternal> well I think as a MOTU, you should strive for more than low-hanging fruit, and leave those for people who are trying to become MOTU and such, what do you think?
<dholbach> I have no more questions
 * persia is looking up details for a quest
<persia> ion
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> dholbach: you shoul dknow that by now, when persia is quiet for so long, he is digging
<asomething> nixternal: part of leaving that stuff for contributors is having more sponsors
 * geser leaves
<persia> asomething, You recently uploaded a merge of boost1.37 : Could you share your view of the boost1.37 -> boost1.38 transition, and what ought be done for karmic?
<nixternal> geser: want to give us your vote before you go?
<persia> geser, Have a  good evening
<dholbach> geser: have a good evening
 * nixternal notes he needs to the Signals2 library from boost
<asomething> persia: i think it's doable, but not really my area of expertise. I was simply the last uploader on that for jaunty to pull in a debian fix affecting libtorrent-rasterbar
<asomething> part of working with the debian deluge maintainer
<persia> Did you review alternate versions, or consider migrating to the new version?
<asomething> well, my goal was getting deluge syncable and the debian maintainer is building libtorrent-rasterbar against 1.37 only
<dholbach> persia, nixternal, jpds: any more questions?
<jpds> None from me.
 * persia is done.
<nixternal> done
<dholbach> [VOTE] Shall Andrew Starr-Bochicchio become MOTU?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Shall Andrew Starr-Bochicchio become MOTU?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jpds> +1
<dholbach> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jpds. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from dholbach. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<dholbach> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<dholbach> congratulations asomething!
<dholbach> asomething: ... long overdue! :-)
<asomething> Thanks!
<nixternal> congrats and welcome asomething!
<nellery> congrats asomething! :)
<jpds> Congrats asomething!
<stefanlsd> congrats!
<nixternal> now get boost1.39 uploaded and backported! :p
<porthose> congrats
<dholbach> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<persia> 1.39!
<nixternal> what is that?
<dholbach> Any other business
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> hah
 * persia is good.
<dholbach> who's going to do the honours?
<nixternal> none here
<nixternal> I am going to the hospital, so maybe if and when I come back I could do them
<dholbach> nixternal: ok, if you don't make it back, I'll do it tomorrow early!
<dholbach> deal?
<nixternal> umm, I better make it back dude, only way that I wouldn't is if I kicked the bucket
<dholbach> nixternal: I'm sure you will :)
<nixternal> but that is fine...i can do it here in a bit :)
<dholbach> thanks muchly
<nixternal> it's just an ankle ;p
 * jpds disappears for today - later folks.
<dholbach> ok...
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:27.
<dholbach> thanks a lot everybody!
<nixternal> dholbach: have a drink for me!
 * dholbach hugs porthose, hyperair, stefanlsd, asomething
<dholbach> sure will :)
<dholbach> take care
 * hyperair hugs dholbach
<dholbach> :-)
 * porthose hugs dholbach back:)
<dholbach> see you around
<ldlandis> hi.. are meetings pending? (I'm a newbie).
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-31
<thewrath> *g/m all
<burba337> \
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-31
<nisshh> dutchie: is the meeting still happening?
<dutchie> no idea
<nisshh> hmmmm
<jamespgray> Is there anyone here who can talk about the meetings at UDS for those of us who missed it?
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk has a recording of the live stream from that discussion for those who're interested
<jamespgray> Oh, yes.  I'd forgotten about that.
<jbicha> jamespgray: there's also a gobby document from UDS: community-m-docs-collaboration
<jbicha> do you know how to use gobby?
<nisshh> and there are vids on youtube on the ubuntu-developers channel
<jamespgray> jbicha: no, I have not used it before.
<ubuntujenkins> I have installed gobby how do i get the community-m-docs-collaboration one?
<jbicha> jamespgray: you should just be able to install gobby from software center and then connect to gobby.ubuntu.com , pick a username and color
<jbicha> after you connect, you should see a document list, double click on the document you want
<ubuntujenkins> got it thanks jbicha
<daker> hello @all
<ubuntujenkins> hey daker
<daker> ubuntujenkins, the meeting is over ?
<thorwil> didn't start
<ubuntujenkins> could still start the chair arrives
<ubuntujenkins> *if
<flan> I missed the notification. Based on c7p's e-mail, I'm probably not the only one.
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, well, let's start this meeting anyway
<IlyaHaykinson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:23. The chair is IlyaHaykinson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<IlyaHaykinson> [TOPIC] Single pool of content
<MootBot> New Topic:  Single pool of content
<IlyaHaykinson> i wanted to spend a little bit of time discussing the first topic from the docs/community collaboration discussion
<IlyaHaykinson> that of the single pool of content
<IlyaHaykinson> who here is from the docs team? who's from the manual team? any others?
<dutchie> i'm here a little bit
 * ubuntujenkins is from the manual/quickshot team
<godbyk> I'm here from the manual team.
<ubuntujenkins> I have to go soon though
 * IlyaHaykinson works on the manual team
<godbyk> Is anyone around from the docs team or learning team?
<daker> I'm here from the manual website team too
<godbyk> Bueller? Bueller?
<thorwil> seems to be a little bit one-sided :)
<jbicha> I'm a drifter, I haven't really aligned with any particular group yet
<godbyk> jbicha: That's fair enough. Good to have you here!
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, if nobody is here from the docs team, we probably should not continue the formal meeting.
<IlyaHaykinson> and just have a free-form discussion :(
<thorwil> apple-pie?
<IlyaHaykinson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:27.
<jbicha> was this meeting announced in #ubuntu-doc ?
<thorwil> yes
<daker> so fast :)
<thorwil> pleia2's mail went to doc, learning and manual list
<jbicha> thorwil: & it was announced in the doc irc channel too?
<thorwil> that i don't know
<IlyaHaykinson> well, given that nobody who was at UDS is here, at the very least the stakeholders were absent
<IlyaHaykinson> but no need to worry.
<godbyk> We'll get a new meeting scheduled and also start discussing more specific plans and details on the mailing list(s).
<IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: agreed
 * IlyaHaykinson waves to pleia2 
<godbyk> Hey, pleia2!
<godbyk> I think everyone that was here for the meeting is still here.  Though currently, it's only manual team members, I think.
<daker> yeah
<czajkowski> so is the meeting going ahead?
<dutchie> ooh, czajkowski
<dutchie> hello
<czajkowski> dutchie: :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-01
 * amachu is away: Gone away for now
 * NCommand1r sighs
<lag> o/
<NCommand1r> freenode locked me out of my own nick :-/
<mcasadevall> There
<mcasadevall> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is mcasadevall.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mcasadevall> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100601
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100601
<mcasadevall> [topic] Roll Call
<MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
<mcasadevall> So who's here?
 * GrueMaster awake & accounted for.
 * lag is in attendance 
<mcasadevall> ogra: davidm: plars: dyfet: ping?
<davidm> G'day
 * ogra waves
<ogra> cooloney excused himself, he will likely be late
<dyfet> hi
<davidm> plars, is not on the roll call anymore
<mcasadevall> persia doesn't appear to be online
<ogra> mcasadevall, vacation
<davidm> persia is on holiday
<ogra> dont expect him for the next three weeks
<mcasadevall> ah
<mcasadevall> three?
 * mcasadevall blinks
<mcasadevall> Japan has a lot of holidays
<mcasadevall> Anyway
<mcasadevall> [topic] Annoucements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Annoucements
<mcasadevall> Folks, activity reports please!
<ogra> ??
<ogra> that should be under AOB :)
<mcasadevall> ogra: no one has been putting ARs on the wiki aside from myself
<mcasadevall> It keeps getting ignored, that's why I'm putting it at the start
<ogra> k
<mcasadevall> Please make sure you post your ARs to the wiki ASAP
 * ogra will do so after meeting
<mcasadevall> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker
<mcasadevall> Done
<ogra> yeah, thanks for that
<mcasadevall> [topic] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
<GrueMaster> co
<mcasadevall> [action] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
<mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont
<mcasadevall> Discussed it briefly, no resolution as of yet.
<mcasadevall> [topic] NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
<ogra> i thought lamont proposed a resolution
<mcasadevall> ogra: did he?
<lamont> resolution is that I need to figure out how to do per-architecture timeouts in a sane way.
<mcasadevall> I failed to poke Keybuk so co
<lamont> but I'm not here right now. this is a recording.
<ogra> mcasadevall, in the log snipped i pasted lamont asked for the packages to be fixed
<mcasadevall> ogra: I must have missed it :-/
<mcasadevall> [topic]Entire team to respond to davidm's email on meeting times
<MootBot> New Topic: Entire team to respond to davidm's email on meeting times
 * mcasadevall failed on this one
 * ogra too
<ogra> but then i'm also happy with meeting times
 * mcasadevall would be happier if they were offset 12 hours but YMMV
<mcasadevall> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<mcasadevall> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-mobile.html
<mcasadevall> The bar of success looks really really low
<ogra> we finally have all items in place
<ogra> i just asked pitti to reset it to 46 items
<ogra> the bar will be correct in 60min
<mcasadevall> yay
<ogra> (next cron run(
<mcasadevall> ogra: but shouldn't it be set to 52, which is the high point where everything went in?
<ogra> while we have no A1 items everyone please work on their A2 items :)
<ogra> mcasadevall, who cares as long as we stay below :)
<mcasadevall> ogra: point tkaen
<mcasadevall> Our kernel devs aren't here ATM, so I'll skip kernel status for now
<ogra> lag is here
<mcasadevall> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<mcasadevall> oh
<mcasadevall> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<mcasadevall> bah
<ogra> heh
<mcasadevall> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier, lag)
<GrueMaster> Not a lot to report as of yet.  Some kernel testing for Lucid Updates.
<ogra> lag, has an omap3 kernel been uploaded to the archive already ?
<lag> ?
<ogra> lag, i thought you care for omap3 ?
<lag> I have no idea
<ogra> or was that omap4 in 10.10
<ogra> ah, k :)
<lag> I haven't been told a thing
<ogra> ok
<lag> Apparently I have a 'panda' board coming to me
<ogra> all i know is that cooloney cares for the 10.07 kernel
<lag> And I've been included in this meeting and the weekly chat with TI
<ogra> so the 10.10 work will be spread between you and mpoirier
<lag> That's all I know
<lag> Thanks for letting me know ;)
<ogra> which means an omap3 kernel built from mainline and a specially branched omap4 kernel
<davidm> cooloney will train lag and mpoirier on what we need
<ogra> ok
<davidm> he will be around until they are fully up to speed
<lag> Thanks davidm
 * ogra also likes to announce that x-loader-omap4 and u-boot-omap4 sit in the NEW queue, if Riddell gets to it they should hit the archive today
 * Riddell takes the hint
<ogra> (not exactly kernel but close :) )
 * ogra hugs Riddell 
 * mcasadevall hugs Riddell
<ogra> mcasadevall, how about movin on :)
<mcasadevall> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> deja vu?
<GrueMaster> Not a lot to report as of yet.  Some kernel testing for Lucid Updates
<ogra> tri va vu :)
<mcasadevall> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<ogra> looks horrid
<mcasadevall> Indeed
<mcasadevall> A lot of it is cascade from Qt4 exploding
<ogra> yeah
<mcasadevall> I've managed to determine that lzma compression + massive dbg packages == ow
<ogra> libnih is gone ... though just because upstart failed completely now
<mcasadevall> ugh
<ogra> i guess it will return
 * mcasadevall knows what he's doing this week
<ogra> mcasadevall, btw, did you get my response to the livecd-roofs mail ?
<mcasadevall> ogra: yes, did you get my response to it?
<ogra> i mean the resonse to that one :)
 * ogra wants a last one char change 
<mcasadevall> ogra: oh, then I didn't get the response to my response of your response
<ogra> lol
<ogra> dyfet, btw, how did the MOTU think go on friday ?
 * mcasadevall kicks offlineimap
<ogra> could you take on some more FTBFS issues ?
<mcasadevall> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<dyfet> ogra: I was not able to get the people I needed to sign onto the application in time
<ogra> since mcasadevall still has some debian-cd work to do it would be good if you could take that
<ogra> oh
<ogra> i thought you said it would be friday
<dyfet> ogra: that was based on that happening
<ogra> aha
<mcasadevall> ogra: I was actually going to put most of that work on hold, we can't really touch the infrastructure during alpha 1
<ogra> mcasadevall, we can prepare everything
<mcasadevall> and then we can just focus on merging what must be merged
<ogra> i surely can merge livecd-rootfs and hold back the upload and you can work on the separate branch
<mcasadevall> ogra: works for me I guess
<ogra> great
<mcasadevall> I was planning on squashing FTBFS this week though
<ogra> since i want to have jasper ready by end of the week
<GrueMaster> Are we going to start producing images this week?
<ogra> GrueMaster, next probably
<ogra> we're still missing some bits
<GrueMaster> So nothing for Alpha 1?
<ogra> nope
<mcasadevall> ogra: we're not spinning old-style OMAp3 images?
<GrueMaster> Even the old style images?
<ogra> mcasadevall, i asked pitti to hold off on that
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra> since someone would have to clean up cdimage then
<mcasadevall> ogra: fair enough
<ogra> they gain us nothing
<mcasadevall> ogra: ah, very good point.
<mcasadevall> So, on the pre-installation image front
<mcasadevall> livecd-rootfs code has landed
<ogra> next irc meeting we should have something
<mcasadevall> Initial debian-cd code has landed
<mcasadevall> er
<mcasadevall> not has landed
<mcasadevall> has been written
 * mcasadevall is obviously not at full caffination
<ogra> did you look at the publishing code yet ?
<ogra> (i put the branch for you on the server)
<mcasadevall> ogra: no, most of my weekend was spent traveling up to Rochester
<ogra> ah, k
 * mcasadevall is working out of a hotel today
<ogra> please focus on that as soon as you have time
<mcasadevall> ogra: I want to get the initial review of the d-cd branch done though before I start tearing into the publishing code
<ogra> images > ftbfs
<mcasadevall> ogra: indeed, although that list is getting very scary :-/
<ogra> as long as ubuntu-netbook for armel doesnt show up on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/maverick_probs.html all is fine
<mcasadevall> Anything else we want to bring up w.r.t. to images?
<ogra> we can do ftbfs all the time, images have to happen asap
<ogra> nothing from me
<mcasadevall> nor me
<ogra> move ! :)
<mcasadevall> [topic] Any Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
<ogra> nothing here
<davidm> nothing from me
<mcasadevall> then without further adue
<mcasadevall> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:32.
<ogra> clap clap clap
<mcasadevall> (that was a quick meeting)
<ogra> that was fast today :)
 * mcasadevall fights to get his nick back
<pitti> hello
<kees> \o
<Keybuk> hey all
<mdz> Keybuk, you're chairing, right?
<Keybuk> I am
<Keybuk> just trying to find the minutes of the previous meeting
<mdz> Keybuk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/May2010#Technical Board
<mdz> Keybuk, are you updating the agenda, or do you want help?
<Keybuk> I'm updating the agenda currently
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is Keybuk.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Keybuk> there is very little on the agenda today
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Action Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Review
<pitti> should we add jcastro's Request for standing FFe for Chromium?
<Keybuk> I took an action to draft a mail about the sparc and ia64 ports and send to TB for approval
<Keybuk> I've done that, it's waiting on the last few TB members to comment on it
<Keybuk> cjwatson in particular, I think
<kees> I just replied to that email -- I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.
<mdz> Keybuk, I just added an item from the mailing list
<Keybuk> since I've just seen kees' +1
<mdz> pitti, I did
<Keybuk> cjwatson: do you have any objections to the mail, or should I sent it on?
<Keybuk> ok, timeout; I'll send it out
<Keybuk> The other action assigned was to jcastro to talk to the GNOME release team about the schedule
<Keybuk> jcastro: how did that go?
<mdz> I saw only +1s on the mailing list
<mdz> (re: your mail)
<jcastro> Keybuk: I've been on holiday, I am back today though
<Keybuk> ok, we'll carry that one over
<Keybuk> those are teh only two actions I can see
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Chromium standing FFe
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chromium standing FFe
<jcastro> Keybuk: I am still also unclear on what exactly we need to talk to them about, we can catch up after the meeting though
<Keybuk> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-May/000194.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-May/000194.html
<kees> I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.
<mdz> <kees> I just replied to that email -- I think it needs regular SRUs first, then once those are successful, we can talk about granting a standing SRU.
<kees> 37
<mdz> kees, :-)
<kees> s/37//
<mdz> kees' proposal sounds reasonable to me
<Keybuk> I agree with kees
<mdz> we should agree a fixed point at which to review the situation though, so it doesn't get dropped
<mdz> e.g. after 3 months, or after N SRUs or when someone screams
<pitti> sounds good
<pitti> I think I'll just bring it back to the agenda once the SRU team gets fed up^W^Wsufficiently acquainted with chromium SRUs
<Keybuk> pitti: that sounds good
<kees> I would arbitrary pick 3 consecutively successful SRUs, but yeah, it's mostly a "okay, we've done this enough that we don't want to look at it any more" kind of a time.
<mdz> agreed
<pitti> but even for single SRUs we need to extend the usual SRU rules
<pitti> if that should be the SRU team's discretion, then fine
<kees> pitti: right, but that's generally been up to the SRU team.
<kees> I'm fairly certain chromium will be fine, but I don't like setting the precedent of pre-approving a standing exception with no evidence of SRU sanity.
<Keybuk> ok, sounds like there's a rough consensus here and that pitti will reapply once there's been a few SRUs
<pitti> sounds good
<mdz> agreed
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Community Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community Bugs
<Keybuk> bug #585807
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585807 in ubuntu-community "The ubuntu-drivers team holds a confusing mix of privileges" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585807
<Keybuk> mdz: had any luck with that one?
<mdz> Keybuk, I needed someplace to park it, because the Launchpad team can't talk to us about it yet (per jml)
<mdz> I think the TB should triage it
<Keybuk> triage how?
<mdz> decide on its priority
<mdz> and then we can put it to the Launchpad team along with the rest of our backlog when their next iteration begins
<sabdfl> hello all, sorry to be late
<mdz> so, how severe a problem do we feel this is today?
<Keybuk> a large part of it seems to be about spec work
<mdz> we've been working around it for a long time, so it doesn't seem that urgent
<mdz> but, it is irksome
<kees> yeah, it's been this way for as long as I remember
<Keybuk> reading the list, an initial separation might be to separate out the bug-related pieces to ubuntu-bug-control
<kees> I can't see it being higher than "Medium"
<Keybuk> and worry about actually splitting up the pieces later
<pitti> I think all core devs can at least approve bug task nominations now, wich has helped a lot
<Keybuk> right, I'd live with Medium
<pitti> this was my biggest concern so far
<mdz> I don't think we need to decide yet how it should work (though I did a detailed writeup of that last year)
<mdz> just how important it is
<pitti> approving blueprints to releases is my next one, but the number of people who need to isn't large enough to make ubuntu-drivers membership a real problem
<pitti> so I concur with "medium"
<mdz> once it makes it onto the list for LP, we can have a conversation about how to fix it
<mdz> Medium WFM
<Keybuk> Ironically, I can't actually change the status or importance
<Keybuk> mdz: you'll have to do that I guess ;-)
<pitti> *laugh*
<pitti> well, it's not an Ubuntu bug, so you shouldn't be able to as non-project member
<mdz> Keybuk, I can't either
<Keybuk> pitti: it's assigned to a team I'm a member of :)
<pitti> I can set status, but not priority
<mdz> is that because it's a security bug?
<mdz> or because of the project it's filed on?
<pitti> because of the project, I think
<mdz> pitti, i can't set status to Triaged
<kees> i think because of the project
<mdz> but I can set the importance (and did so)
<pitti> otherwise you could first assign to yourself, and then set everything else
<mdz> pitti, so i fyou can set it to Triaged, we're done :-)
<pitti> mdz: I can't, just confirmed
<pitti> not wontfix/triaged
<mdz> good enough I suppose
<mdz> we've spent too much time on it as it is
<mdz> I've set Confirmed/Medium
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Other Business
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Business
<Keybuk> any other business before we select a chair?
<Keybuk> 3...
<Keybuk> 2...
<Keybuk> 1...
<Keybuk> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
<Keybuk> by nickname rotation (from sabdfl), it's cjwatson next, but I'm loth to select him as he's not here
<mdz> he only needs to be here NEXT Time
<Keybuk> mdz: making someone chair without telling them seems rude
<Keybuk> and runs the risk that he'll never know he's supposed to be
<mdz> Keybuk, of course you should tell him
<mdz> sometime in the next week should be sufficient
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> cjwatson it is then
<Keybuk> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:21.
<mdz> thanks Keybuk
<kees> thanks!
<pitti> thanks
<sabdfl> thanks and cheers
<cjwatson> eek, I'm sorry, I completely missed this on my calendar
<cjwatson> I was buried in trying to sort out a horrible make timestamping problem
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I have no objections to your mail
<kees> cjwatson: building on a filesystem that doesn't support sub-second mtime?
<cjwatson> kees: no, just cdbs-induced craziness with double-colon rules
<kees> oh yikes
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I'm also fine with being chair
<Keybuk> k, report up and agenda cleared
<cjwatson> BTW I also cleared my action to write up those ancient meeting minutes last week
<Keybuk> yes, I saw
<MichealH> Getting Ready for Desktop Team Meeting
<Riddell> MichealH: in #ubuntu-desktop
<MichealH> oops...
<MichealH> I just watch and you know Ask ect.
<ogra> MichealH, but you should join #ubuntu-desktop to actually see the meeting ;)
<MichealH> I know Im only here for my Membership Meeting :)
<ogra> ah :)
<ogra> (the above sounded different)
<drubin> isn't the membership meeting only in 2 hours?
<andrejz> no, in 3 actually ;)
<drubin> Ah maths fail :)
<drubin> at least I have time then, awesome
<JFo> \o/
<mpoirier> JFo !
<mpoirier> you still on the phone ?
<apw> o/
<kamal> o/
<JFo> mpoirier, heh
 * smb phases in
 * manjo zooms in
<lag> o/
 * ogasawara waves
<mpoirier> JFo: ya, we were working, the phone rang, you left and never came back.
<JFo> yep we will talk after this
<mpoirier> no worries.
<JFo> :)
<lag> \_o_/
<lag>  |
<lag>  /\
 * cking here
 * apw notes lag missed
 * pgraner here 0/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * lag sulks
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (0 bugs, 10 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Alpha 1 Milestoned Bugs (0) ====
<JFo>  * 0 linux kernel bugs ()
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (40 across all packages) ====
<JFo>  * 5 linux kernel bugs
<JFo> === Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 14 blueprints
<JFo> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:128 (down 2 from last week) ====
<JFo>  * https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo>  * Breakdown by status:
<JFo>    http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> please note: I have removed the mvl, fsl and ec2 items
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<bjf> Nothing new this week.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<manjo> nothing new this week
<manjo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<apw> There are two outstanding items for Alpha-1, getting mainline builds to include linux-tools and progressing the -preempt pakcages.  These are both non-release tasks.  The first is likely to slip to alpha-2 now, the second is progresing but also likely to slip.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<tgardner> LTS backport kernel and meta package are in the kernel-ppa
<tgardner> its tracking maverick as its released.
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<bjf> Slow progress, more testing without success. Will have to try pv-ops on HVM drivers this week.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
<cnd> kernel config is set, confirmed with upstream
<cnd> no new work other than that yet
<cnd> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> There are only two work items still open for Alpha-1, both of which are not critical for Alpha-1's release.
<ogasawara> apw, manjo: if you don't think you'll get to those before Thurs, I'll move them under the Alpha-2 milestone.
<ogasawara> ..
<manjo> ogasawara, ok
<apw> ogasawara, please
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<apw> Still no testing feedback from foundations on union-mounts, there is talk of another drop occuring from upstream which will simplify the patches.  It is unclear when this new drop will occur however.
<apw> We also have an issue with aufs2 in maverick which is leading to aufs2 panics during boot on the live-cd.  I have an update for aufs2 which I am attempting to test to see if that fixes the issues.  It is likely we will have to update aufs2 as soon as we are on 2.6.35-rcN.  The update does appear to be good, and we are being asked to respin with aufs2 updated.  Will get patches out shortly.
<apw> ..
<apw> ogasawara, will get with you after the meeting to coordinate
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> Continuing work on the wiki pages with input from apw, ogasawara and smb. I plan to send some e-mail out on the ongoing effort today.
<JFo> also, I have some prep work happening that will move several topics to INPROGRESS
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<apw> ssh+git://zinc.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-maverick.git
<apw> ..
<apw> bottom
<apw> We have patches pending for the remaining Alpha-1 deliverable, waiting on testing from Foundations.  These would most readily be applied post Alpha-1.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement
<cking> Nothing new this week
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprint: kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<cking> Test for common BIOS error messages
<cking> APIC edge/level trigger test
<cking> acpiinfo: common kernel log ACPI checks
<cking> Common S3/S4 PM kernel error checks
<cking> S3 multiple suspend/resume cycle tests
<cking> S4 hibernate/resume test
<cking> Add in test run order/priority
<cking> Rework kernel log scanning + execution of some user space tools
<cking> Rework wakealarm code into common library calls
<cking> Add ability to take pre-captured input from dmidecode, /proc/acpi/dsdt and dmesg rather than at run time
<cking> Manoj added a test from the test suite into kernel-qa dev to prove the test suite integrates in okay.
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We uploaded the 2.6.34-5.12 Alpha 1 kernel last Friday.  There will be no further uploads until after Thurs.  Unfortunately the first iso's were just spun yesterday and have uncovered 2 bugs we need to be aware of (thanks apw and tgardner for already taking ownership):
<ogasawara> Bug 587888
<ogasawara> Bug 587893
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 587888 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "aufs oops in au_do_open() on maverick live system boot" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/587888
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 587893 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "linux-image-2.6.34-5-virtual is oversized, results in oversized server ISO" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/587893
<ogasawara> I should take that back, we might upload for the aufs bits
<ogasawara> Also note that 2.6.35-rc1 was released so I'll be rebasing Maverick today.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Status unchanged from last week. Security release nearly out (probably tomorrow).
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 1005 Lucid Bugs (down 129)
<JFo> 5 Maverick Bugs (up 1)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 5 maverick bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 262 lucid bugs (down 40; to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 26 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 9 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 hardy bug (down 1)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 146 lucid bugs (down 3)
<JFo>   * 50 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 20 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 3 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 1 lucid bug (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> This week's Bug Day will be on Thursday. I plan to send out an announcement for it later today with a reminder going out tomorrow. The current plan is to review Bugs with Patches attached to eliminate misreported patches and prepare the list for team review. Additionally, i will resume our use of the 'cherry-pick' tag to identify bugs with upstream commit SHA1s in them for us to review and react accordingly. You can see the list of these from this
<JFo>  link: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=cherry-pick
<JFo> ..
<apw> .
<apw> cherry-pick, is that a standard tag ?
<JFo> it is
<apw> cool thanks ..
<JFo> it's one that we don't use
<JFo> but I think it will help identify those bugs that have the SHA
<apw> seems sensible ..
<JFo> since they will most likely not have a patch attached
<JFo> cool
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything? (raise your hand please)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything? (raise your hand please)
<JFo> o/
<bjf> JFo, go
<JFo> just wanted to draw your attention here http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/linux
<JFo> ..
<bjf> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/alsa-driver
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/alsa-driver
<apw> o/
<bjf> as well
<bjf> apw, go
<apw> remember we discussed the b43 driver not working, i've confirmed that
<apw> it does not work in the current release kernel in lucid
<apw> dma errors etc
<apw> with smb's latest stable 32.13 the b43 does work pretty well, and i am using it now
<apw> ..
<tgardner> apw, is compat-wireless any better?
<apw> tgardner, can't say i've tried it no
<tgardner> apw, just curious, it should be a superset
<apw> but as it will shortly work with the '-updates' kernel i guess we'll be in a good palce
<smb> If those changes went into 2.6.34
<smb> But I have not checked
<tgardner> smb, compat-wireless-2.6.34
<cnd> I would think they would have to be in 2.6.34
<cnd> to have been released as part of a stable updates
<smb> tgardner, right, I understand thats based on 2.6.34?
<cnd> according to the rules
<tgardner> smb, not based, it _is_ the 2.6.34 wireless stack
<smb> cnd, Those patches are comming from upstream
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:23.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<smb> tgardner, Ok, so I should say it would work if the bugfixes were part of 2.6.34 (but thats quite likely)
<kamal> thanks bjf
<MichealH> How long till the EMEA Member Meeting Anyone?
<bjf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Tagging
<bjf> manjo, ^
<BlackZ> MichealH: the meeting is at 20:00 UTC
<MichealH> Is it? The Calendar syas different
<MichealH> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
<BlackZ> MichealH: The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC.
<BlackZ> maybe it's a popey's fault
<popey> that is entirely possible
<MichealH> Oh Well I suppose I say here after 7 just to make sure
<BlackZ> popey: so 19:00 UTC?
<popey> no
<MichealH> 20:00?
<BlackZ> indeed
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<popey> "The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC."
<BlackZ> popey: that's what I'm saying :)
<BlackZ> <BlackZ> MichealH: The EMEA membership board meets every first Tuesday of the month at 20:00 UTC.
<popey> Tue Jun  1 17:41:34 UTC 2010
<popey> ^^ time now
<popey> heh
 * popey hugs date -u
<MichealH> But my point is the callendar says different
<BlackZ> MichealH: good luck
<MichealH> See ya at 20:00 UTC then
<popey> the fridge is wrong is it?
<MichealH> It says"Events shown in time zone: GMT (no daylight saving)"
<drubin> No the callendar is correct
<popey> no, it isnt :)
<popey> it says 7pm
<drubin> it is for me
<MichealH> GMT=UTC-1?!?
<drubin> maybe you guys with your daylight savings times and stuff mess it up :)
<popey> heh
<MichealH> Yup
<popey> where does it say that MichealH ?
<MichealH> :)
<popey> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar got it
<MichealH> at the very bottom of the schedule
<drubin> no ways it said 20:00 (utc+2) for me a while ago
<MichealH> I remember seeing it as 9pm my time now its 8pm?
<BlackZ> MichealH: hint: fix your nick in the table
<drubin> popey: surely no one actually updated the calendar.. and even more so to make it wrong
<popey> i have just aked for it to be changed
<MichealH> Change to 8pm-9pm
<drubin> popey: So is the meeting at 20:00 or at 19:00
<MichealH> :D
<popey> its 20:00 UTC!
<popey> as per the wiki page :)
<MichealH> 21:00 BST!
<popey> yes
<drubin> Just making sure all this confusion  is confusing
<popey> confusing popey is confusing
<MichealH> No its Confusing of Confusing of Confusing
<MichealH> :)
<drubin> goes to find some dinner and sort out loco stuff before the meeting
 * MichealH makes notes 0.5x the speed
<MichealH> No need to rush now :)
<MichealH> drubin You applied?
<MichealH> popey: Is it ok to point to my website for my memebrship stuff too.
<drubin> MichealH: yes
<popey> we prefer personal wiki pages
<drubin> MichealH: No I am on the board
<popey> which link to launchpad, forums, etc
<drubin> popey: He said as well.
<MichealH> I have both :D Well Prepared
<popey> but links to other sites that backup your membership are good too
<popey> drubin: i can read :)
<MichealH> When do we find out who got in?
<popey> you attend and we generally tell you there and then
<MichealH> So if you all said +1 for example then I may be in
 * MichealH makes notes better.
<MichealH> drubin: Who else is on the board?
<drubin> MichealH: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board-emea/+members
<MichealH> Is it Ubuntu Members get selected to be on the board?
<popey> yes
<MichealH> popey: I see where you nick comes from ;)
<popey> Dont mention spinach
<MichealH> Why would I mention spinach Im responsable
<MichealH> ;)
<MichealH> I have some good comments on my PM's if I put them In my Wiki/Site would they be considered?
<drubin> popey: Is that list on the wiki still valid? like people from 24th of march
<ttx> ...
<kirkland> o/
<mathiaz> o/
<Daviey> \o
<MichealH> I think tey are looking at the logs I have seen they were unsuccesful
<hggdh> ~o~
<popey> drubin we should leave, other meeting starting
<alexm> o/
<MichealH> popey hows about ubuntu-offtopic? ;)
<ttx> popey: you can stay if you want :)
<popey> drubin: MichealH join #ubuntu-emea-board
<zul> hi
<jiboumans> good morning
<smoser> o/
<jiboumans> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is jiboumans.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jiboumans> thanks all for joining
<ttx> niemeyer: o/
<jiboumans> scribe today will be ttx, thanks for volunteering
<niemeyer> Yo!
<niemeyer> :-)
<ttx> yay yay
<sommer> o//
<jiboumans> experiencing a bit of lag with irc, sorry for the delay
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Action points from the last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action points from the last meeting
<jiboumans> sommer to try to move server doc spec to Ubuntu specs
<sommer> done :)
<jiboumans> awesome :)
<jiboumans> ttx to document (or delegate documentation of ) package stack names
<jiboumans> sommer++
<ttx> done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<jiboumans> ttx++
<jiboumans> no other actions outstanding afaik
<ccheney> hello
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Maverick development (jib)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick development (jib)
<halvors> hi!
<jiboumans> as you all know, we've just kicked off the maverick dev cycle
<halvors> When was the meeting today?
<jiboumans> and we've got alpha1 isos coming up
<mathiaz> halvors: are you referring to the EMEA board meeting?
<jiboumans> ttx, that's your topic i believe
<mathiaz> halvors: if so - it was 2 hours ago
<ttx> yes, we have deliverables up at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntuserver/all
<mathiaz> halvors: this is now the Ubuntu Server team meeting
<ttx> I smoketested yesterdays ISO, it seems to work, filed a bug that got fixed since
<halvors> the africa/europe meeting
<halvors> 20:00 UTC
<ttx> the main issue being the oversized CDs, will come back to that later
<halvors> it was 2 hours ago ?
<ttx> so please run some ISO testing coverage
<Daviey> halvors: 20:00 UTC is in 2 hours.
<halvors> yes
<ttx> smoser: we don't havce cloud images yet
<halvors> then it is 10:00
<jiboumans> [ACTION] all to run ISO testing coverage on alpha1
<smoser> ew don't ?
<halvors> for me
<MootBot> ACTION received:  all to run ISO testing coverage on alpha1
<ttx> smoser: not on the tracker, at least
<smoser> ah.
<smoser> ok.
<mathiaz> halvors: may be - we're in the middle of another meeting now - I'd suggest to come back when the meeting board is running
<jiboumans> [ACTION] smoser to ensure cloud images make it to the alpha1 iso tracker
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to ensure cloud images make it to the alpha1 iso tracker
<ttx> we don't need 100% coverage for alphaÂµ1, but the more the merrier
<ttx> that's all.
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Alpha2 subcycle status (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha2 subcycle status (ttx)
<ttx> (we are in soft freeze btw, so don't land anything massive)
<ttx> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-2.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-server-maverick-alpha-2.html
<mathiaz> ttx: are the images registered in the iso tracker?
<mathiaz> ttx: alpha1 images?
<ttx> mathiaz: define "images"
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - isos
<ttx> mathiaz: yes
<ttx> Ubuntu Server amd64 (20100601.1)
<ttx> Ubuntu Server i386 (20100601.1)
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - I haven't received the standard email though
<jiboumans> the above link is 'the' place where we track progress on our specs, so please remember to keep your work items and Status: line updated in the blueprints. For the howto, please see:
<ttx> mathiaz: me neither
<jiboumans> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
<ttx> Please also update status for your specs, ideally before the meeting
<mathiaz> ttx: that should be fixed
<mathiaz> ttx: as this is how I get notified about new isos needed testing
<ttx> mathiaz: ping ara about it, maybe it's a one-time alpha1 special
<ttx> Status updating is done by updating the "Status" section in the whiteboard
<ttx> I've set it to "Not updated yet" across the board
<jiboumans> same procedure as lucid, so nothing new to learn here
 * SpamapS just realized that meant the Status: for the work itesm tracker, and not the blueprint status.. :-P
<jiboumans> remember to keep it updated; MONDAY EOB at the latest
<ttx> SpamapS: I was reiterating for you :)
<jiboumans> ttx: any particular specs that need attention right now?
<ttx> jiboumans: server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades
<SpamapS> ttx: ty
<ttx> needs some work separation between smoser and jjohansen
<ttx> and a more detailed work items plan
<jiboumans> ttx: jjohansen is on vacation this week, so we should follow up by email as well
<ttx> jiboumans: yep
<jiboumans> smoser, can you take that on?
<ttx> otherwise none of the prio1 specs have work items burnt yet
<smoser> i pinged with jjohansen today. he's aware of the spec.  i will follow up.
<jiboumans> [ACTION] smoser to coordinate with jjohansen and ttx to provide a more detailed work item overview for server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades
<jiboumans> ttx: any others?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smoser to coordinate with jjohansen and ttx to provide a more detailed work item overview for server-maverick-cloud-kernel-upgrades
<ttx> no, let's get items burnt !
<ttx> (as an aside, i'll reset the trends line tomorrow)
<jiboumans> ok, i'd like to look at 4 specs quickly though;
<ttx> (so please get your work items in before :)
<jiboumans> ivoks, roaksoax, scottk: mail & cluster stack look in great shape. I've asked in the whiteboard to seperate items out for before & after feature freeze though to help us track things
<jiboumans> sommer, ttx, mathiaz: i wanted to double check you're happy with the docs spec as is now
<ScottK> OK.
<jiboumans> the review's extensive with feedback requests and it'd be great if we could mark those off
<sommer> I think I addressed the comments on that one, but if not let me know
<jiboumans> sommer: it looks good to me too, just verifying before i set it to 'approved'
<sommer> coolio
<ttx> jiboumans: also note that the specs fully assigned to hggdh don't appear in the chart
<ttx> since they appear in canonical-qa instead
<jiboumans> ttx: let's follow up with pitti to figure out how we can have them show up
<jiboumans> alright, let's move on
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<mathiaz> server-maverick-serverguide-updates: looks good to me
<ttx> stgraber: haven't seen a spice spec, mjeanson wanted to file one ?
<hggdh> bug 565101 has been verified, should go to -updates as soon as possible
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565101 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] [scalability] walrus reports java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565101
<ttx> server-maverick-serverguide-updates: looks good to me
<jiboumans> sommer: you may need to reformat the 'work items:' line as it expects a milestone after it if anything
<sommer> ah, will do
<hggdh> additionally, I have done a quick test of bug 586134, and seems to work with 512 loop devices configured
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 586134 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu) "SC: Maximum number of loop devices should be configurable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586134
<jiboumans> hggdh: the previous number was... 256?
<hggdh> jiboumans: the previous was 32
<jiboumans> heh
<jiboumans> any other questions for hggdh/QA?
<kirkland> hggdh: i'll get an SRU out, as soon as the current one in proposed (for 6 weeks) gets promoted
<ttx> hggdh: haven't looked into the -community and -qa-workflow specs, did you start with them ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: what's required to get the one in -proposed copied to -updates?
<jiboumans> hggdh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-qa-workflow should probably have it's gobby notes moved to a wikispec instead
<kirkland> hggdh: i think you had a todo of verifying one of them as fixed, so that the promotion could take place
<kirkland> mathiaz: These bugs need to be fix-verified:
<hggdh> kirkland: I verified it, should I change a tag there?
<kirkland> https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/565101
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 565101 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] [scalability] walrus reports java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space" [High,Fix committed]
<kirkland> https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/567371
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 567371 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] [scalability] NC does not detach created pthreads in KVM driver" [High,Fix committed]
<kirkland> https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/566793
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 566793 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] euca-get-console-output gives first 64k of output, not most recent" [Medium,Fix committed]
<kirkland> hggdh: i stand corrected ... you updated the bug on May 28
<mathiaz> hggdh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<mathiaz> hggdh: ^^ there is a section about verification
<hggdh> mathiaz: thanks
<mathiaz> hggdh: once the verification has been done, tags should be updated
<smoser> kirkland, 566793 is either not "fixed" or caused regression.
<smoser> see most recent comments there.
<kirkland> smoser: that's very troubling
<Daviey> bug #566793
<kirkland> smoser: i see your comment there
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 566793 in eucalyptus (Ubuntu Lucid) "[SRU] euca-get-console-output gives first 64k of output, not most recent" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566793
<kirkland> this is getting complicated, as we have several more eucalyptus SRUs queued
<kirkland> jiboumans: i'm not sure what else to say about this
<jiboumans> kirkland: should we move this to a different forum?
<kirkland> jiboumans: sure
<jiboumans> kirkland: alright, let's move on
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jiboumans> jjohansen is not with us today, so any questions will be relayed through notes/email
<ttx> (from jjohansen) No progress on pv-ops yet due to vacation
<jiboumans> anything pressing that needs to be on the kernel teams radar?
<ttx> I raised bug 587893
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 587893 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "linux-image-2.6.34-5-virtual is oversized, results in oversized server ISO" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/587893
<ttx> -virtual takes up the same size as -server now
<SpamapS> jiboumans: the recent ptrace restrictions are troubling to me..
<ttx> resulting in an oversized server ISO
<jiboumans> SpamapS: could you elaborate?
<ttx> it's on the kernel team radar, rtg is looking at it
<SpamapS> jiboumans: from an ops standpoint, not being able to attach to mysqld/httpd/etc would be disastrous
<jiboumans> SpamapS: i wasn't aware of any changes in that area. what are you referring to exactly?
<ttx> My understanding is atht it's just a sysctl away ?
<SpamapS> jiboumans: it was relayed to ubuntu-devel recently, processes won't be able to ptrace anything that isn't their direct child
<SpamapS> jiboumans: there will be a sysctl, yes
<ttx> /proc/sys/kernel/ptrace_scope
<ttx> SpamapS: you should bring your concerns to the thread
<SpamapS> +1 for security, -10 for operational efficiency. I'm not sure if its worth being on by default.
<jiboumans> SpamapS: if there's no way to debug properly in your opinoin with this change, we should take it up on the list
<mathiaz> SpamapS: if you have any concerns, make sure to let it be known in the thread
<SpamapS> yes I think I'll do that.
<jiboumans> SpamapS: consider this encouragement to do exactly that :)
<ttx> discussing them here won't help very much, it's outside the reach of our team anyway
<jiboumans> any other questions/issues around the kernel?
<ttx> SpamapS: we could agree to unset it on "servers" but I'm not sure I want to have that discussion again
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<jiboumans> sommer: o/
<sommer> not sure I have much... Lucid serverguide PDF is available on h.u.c
<ttx> sommer: could you present new sections for which you'll need input from us at some point ?
<jiboumans> sommer: if you don't have 'm prepped, adding them to next weeks meeting also works. I'd like to make sure you have all the input you need to move forward
<sommer> sure, that may be a good goal for the next meeting
<ttx> sommer: great, thanks
<jiboumans> [ACTION] sommer to present list of sections that need input from server team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to present list of sections that need input from server team
<jiboumans> thanks sommer
<jiboumans> any questions about the docs?
<sommer> don't think so
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Papercuts selection for Alpha2 subcycle (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Papercuts selection for Alpha2 subcycle (ttx)
<ttx> Nomination period for alpha2 subcycle is not over
<ttx> The nominations for the papercuts alpha2 subcycle are here: http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations
<ttx> We had a target of 16 bugs for that cycle
<ttx> only 14 bugs nominated
<ttx> so that should make an easy cut
<ttx> You still have time for last minute nominations...
<ttx> Please have a look at the list off-meeting and let me know if anything there should not be a papercut
<ttx> otherwise I'll take them all :)
<ttx> You can also assign yourself to those you're interested in
<jiboumans> [ACTION] all to review http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations and weed out non-papercuts
<MootBot> ACTION received:  all to review http://tinyurl.com/papercuts-nominations and weed out non-papercuts
<ttx> after that, I'll start randomly assigning them to people :)
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
<jiboumans> thanks ttx
<mathiaz> two bugs have been nominated: bug 585110
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585110 in vm-builder (Ubuntu) "vmbuilder 0.11.3 fails to find ec2-init file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585110
<mathiaz> bug 585522
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585522 in ntp (Ubuntu) "Somes bad var values and old name calling in lucid" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585522
<ttx> (note: i'll close the alpha2-papercuts list tomorrow morning, so nominations should be done today EOB)
<jiboumans> ttx: can you send out a last call to the mailing list too?
<ttx> jiboumans: I think it's too late for that. A call with the deadline was in yesterdays ubuntu weekly news
<mathiaz> I think both bugs should be declined as they fit the SRU critiria
<hggdh> mathiaz: I think 585522 should not be nominated
<ttx> theoretically the deadline was... this meeting
<jiboumans> ttx: that works too :)
<ttx> since we are not as 14, I give a few extra minutes to the meeting crowd :)
<ttx> not at 16, I mean
<ttx> mathiaz: ack
<mathiaz> anything worth on http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html?
<zul> the mtx bug
<ttx> bug 551901 is already under way, I pushed it today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 551901 in krb5 (Ubuntu Lucid) "likewise-open fails to join Windows 2000 SP4 domain" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551901
<mathiaz> zul: for an SRU?
<zul> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> zul: it's annoying - not the end of the world
<ttx> I'm with mathiaz here
<zul> okies
<ttx> zul: there are far more interesting SRUs to push :)
<zul> ttx: heh
<mathiaz> anything else worth SRUing?
<SpamapS> bug 293258 seems worth SRU given that it may have security implications.
<mathiaz> from http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293258 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu) "mysql user has home directory writable by mysqld" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293258
<zul> SpamapS: i dont know the implications of pushing that back to lucid
<mathiaz> SpamapS: if it has security implication than the security team should handle it
<kirkland> mathiaz: there are 2 eucalyptus bugs
<kirkland> mathiaz: as mentioned before, sort of blocked on getting the lucid-proposed eucalyptus promoted to lucid-updates
<ttx> kirkland: I suspect you already nominated them for Lucid ?
<kirkland> ttx: yup
<ttx> kirkland: then you're good :)
<mathiaz> SpamapS: the security team seems to be aware of the bug
<mathiaz> on the topic of the sru process, zul has been working on the implementation
<SpamapS> mmk. :)
<jiboumans> zul++
<jiboumans> mathiaz, zul, anything to show publicly yet?
<mathiaz> so I think we'll be able to move to the new process soon
<zul> sure: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
<mathiaz> jiboumans: http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
<ttx> mathiaz/zul: would be good to see some action on the work items for sru-process, then :P
<jiboumans> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~chucks/SRUTracker/
<jiboumans> also that: ^ ;)
<zul> ttx: yeah sorry
<mathiaz> zul: are your scripts available in a bzr branch somewhere?
<zul> mathiaz: not yet they will be
<mathiaz> zul: ok - could you please push them as soon as possible?
<mathiaz> zul: release early, release often :)
<zul> of course
<mathiaz> that's all for the SRU review
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<jiboumans> any other business?
<hggdh> yes
<sommer> this spec https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-openldap-dit approval ?
<hggdh> I have tested ebs with EtienneG's UEC rig, but we will need our own
<Daviey> hggdh: we might be able to organise timeshare in OEM's rig.
<mathiaz> sommer: you don't need to have approval to start working on a spec ;)
<mathiaz> sommer: the WI look good
<hggdh> Daviey: good. We will have to be careful, though, I just blew EtienneG's rig to space
<jiboumans> sommer: i think you took care of the feedback, so let me hit the Button(tm)
<jiboumans> but yes,it's approved
<sommer> mathiaz: I know, but just wanted to get some time of official nod
<EtienneG> zul, has the iSCSI target question came up earlier?  (sorry, was not paying much attention)
<Daviey> gilir: destruction testing++
<zul> EtienneG: no it hasnt
<EtienneG> hggdh, good to know!
<sommer> jiboumans: thanks :)
<mathiaz> sommer: seems like jiboumans is about to hit the magic button!
<hggdh> EtienneG: oh, sorry, I did not tell you? ;-)
<EtienneG> zul, ok then, I am bringing it up then
<zul> EtienneG: now would be a good time to bring it up ;)
<EtienneG> hggdh, well, yes, over the week-end, right?
<jiboumans> sommer: you're the assignee as well right?
<sommer> yeppers
<hggdh> EtienneG: right
<jiboumans> sommer: targeted for A3 as it needs to be done before Feature Freeze
<EtienneG> jiboumans, I vaguely remember the matter iSCSI target came up during the seed review at UDS-M, but somehow it is nowhere to be found in the Gobby doc
<EtienneG> basically, we discussed if an iSCSI target in main would be desirable, and which
<ccheney> there were some problems with gobby notes being lost, i don't know if that included partial loss though
<jiboumans> EtienneG: i remember the thread on the mailing list
<EtienneG> the consensus seems to be around tgt, which has an iSCSI target daemon
<mathiaz> EtienneG: do you have a specific suggestion?
<EtienneG> jiboumans, was it discussed at UDS, or I am smoking crack?
<mathiaz> EtienneG: is tgt the best option for now?
<EtienneG> mathiaz, tgt would be the best option for me, yes
<jiboumans> EtienneG: like i said, i dont remember it at UDS (then again, i wasnt in all conversations), but i do recall the thread on the list
<zul> EtienneG: i remeber talking to you about it after the session
<EtienneG> people suggested SCST, but it is not packaged yet
<jiboumans> EtienneG: the part i do remember is Eucalytpus folks saying they need one as well
<ttx> istr we discussed it during euca-next-steps
<kirkland> mathiaz: EtienneG: tgt is what we're pursuing for UEC/Eucalyptus
<EtienneG> zul, that must be it
<EtienneG> jiboumans, and unless I am mistaken, they have settled on tgt
<jiboumans> kirkland: is it a fair target for the UEC specs or should this go Elsewhere
<kirkland> jiboumans: UEC is probably fine
<kirkland> jiboumans: i'll add a work item
<jiboumans> kirkland++ thanks
<kirkland> [ccheney] MIR tgt: TODO
<ccheney> kirkland, ok :)
<jiboumans> ok, any other other business?
<EtienneG> tgt needs an upstart job, there is already bug and I assigned it to zul
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<jiboumans> Next meeting is: Tuesday June 8th at 18:00 UTC
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<jiboumans> thanks all for attending
<ttx> \o/
<jiboumans> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:53.
<mathiaz> o/
<EtienneG> \o
<sommer> o//
 * EtienneG high five
<mathiaz> EtienneG: o^34
<EtienneG> mathiaz, you'll have to explain that one ...
<hggdh> ~o~
<mathiaz> EtienneG: o^5 : high - five
<legreffier> hello here :)
<HardDisk> tell me the meeting is not over :/
<HardDisk> EMEA membership that is...
<BlackZ> HardDisk: it will start at 20:00 UTC
<HardDisk> ah good
<HardDisk> cause im in cairo, and just got back :)
<HardDisk> if I missed it, that'd be the 2nd time I miss it.
<andrejz> it starts in 20 minutes, I am waiting for it too ;)
<HardDisk> well andrejz good luck to you.
<andrejz> thanks, good luck to you too
<halvors> yes, i will become member so please support me with votes ;)
<MichealH> halvors, Like your determination
<Dice-Man> hello
<HardDisk> I will def become a member due to all the efforts made this year.
<MichealH> Dice-Man, Hi
<Dice-Man> does everybody here can vote ?
<MichealH> HardDisk, Good Luck
<MichealH> Dice-Man, No only the Board people?
<HardDisk> thanks, but don't need it :)
<MichealH> I dont either HardDisk
<HardDisk> I'm that confident.
<MichealH> so am I!
<HardDisk> lol
<halvors> yes i think
<legreffier> BlackZ: agenda says 21utc
<legreffier> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda?highlight=(CategoryCommunityCouncil)
<legreffier> did i got it wrong?
<BlackZ> it's another meeting
<drubin> legreffier: they are talking about the EMEA ubuntu membership board meeting
<legreffier> oh my bad then
<HardDisk> yes you're very bad then :)
<legreffier> HardDisk: just to tell you once again who's bad.
<McPeter> hi
<MichealH> .action Thanks his iPod for remininng mo of this meeting
<MichealH> Argh Me Extension
<MichealH> :@
<MichealH> It keeps shorting
<MichealH> Hi McPeter
<MichealH> You here for the EMEA Meeting?
<McPeter> to support legreffier :)
<MichealH> Yay \o/ Support me ;)
 * legreffier hugs McPeter 
<MichealH> Im more imortant
<legreffier> and MichealH too.
<MichealH> ;)
<HardDisk> I msgd some people to support me, guess Im on my own today.
<MichealH> I am too HardDisk I asked VBroummond but seems he not here
<MichealH> Nightwiashfan on the forums
<MichealH> Got a few testimonials You?
<MichealH> Just signed in on me iPod :) Just to keep up Yay
<MichealH_> heh
<Dice-Man> michealH the Board people ?
<Dice-Man> was a joke ?
<MichealH_> Board people?
<czajkowski> /c/c
<MichealH> Dice-Man, Im MichealH_
<MichealH> Just om me mobile device :)
<MichealH> Dice-Man, czajkowski is a board person Is that what u were talking bout
<Dice-Man> what is a board person ?
<Dice-Man> you mean staffer ?
<MichealH> They sort of control the meeting
<MichealH> They are the Simnon cowells of this channel
<MichealH> They judge us
<HardDisk> let me go to the bathroom real quick :)
<MichealH> Me too Plz Plzzzzz!
<MichealH> I will be real quick
<Dice-Man> ok MichealH thanks
<MichealH_> mp
<MichealH_> np
<highvoltage> EMEA Regional Board meeting in about 5 minutes
<MichealH_> 6mijs and counting
<MichealH_> what is it about touchscreens?
<MichealH_> Hi Sind
<MichealH> *dinda
<MichealH_> 3 mins oh the pressure :S
<Seveaz> MichealH_: during the meeting, please do not stray off topic
<MichealH_> I agree
<HardDisk> hi Seveaz, I'm here this time :)
<HardDisk> and fully prepared.
<MichealH> I seveaz Rawr
<MichealH> oj
<MichealH_> We waiting for popey?
<Seveaz> popey, czajkowski, highvoltage, ogra, stgraber, drubin: it is time.
<highvoltage> o/
<czajkowski> Aloha
<drubin> o/
<MichealH_> Nice way to call people
<popey> hullo
<highvoltage> this is our first meeting as the new new board right?
<Seveaz> it is
<drubin> highvoltage: yes
<popey> yup
<czajkowski> aye :)
<MichealH> Hi!
<highvoltage> awesome.
<MichealH> Cool
<MichealH_> hehe
<Seveaz> hmm, webchat doesn't show idle time
<Seveaz> can someone please check idle time on ogra/stgraber?
<MichealH> I will
<andrejz> hello everyone!
<highvoltage> Seveaz: stgraber is out of the office today, so I guess he won't be able to make it
<MichealH> 07:18
<halvors> hallo
<Seveaz> ok
<czajkowski> ogra: is idle 7mins
<highvoltage> (we should exchange new phone numbers afterwards again for sms purposes)
<Seveaz> good plan.
<MichealH> stgraber, 144 hours
<ogra_cmpc> czajkowski, nah, i'm hiding here :)
<Seveaz> ah!
<popey> heh
<MichealH> Ahah
<Seveaz> ok, let's begin
<MichealH> Whoo!
<czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: *mutters* :p
<Seveaz> michaelh: please keep chatter to a minimum
<MichealH> Ok
<HardDisk> I'm ready to go first if no one minds.
<Seveaz> I don't know whether the new board members are familiar with the structure of the meetings
<halvors> should we start the meeting=
<halvors> ?
<drubin> czajkowski: thanks for cleaning up the wiki, and on that point I think we should ask some one todo it straight after this meeting to make it easier
<MichealH> I will go next
<Seveaz> HardDisk: please wait.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<popey> We go in order of that page
<Seveaz> so for all new board members: we essentially go through that list in order and make people introduce themselves
<ogra_cmpc> Seveas, not with the current structure, its been a few years i did that last :)
<Seveaz> then we read wikipage/launchpad page/other "evidence" and vote
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: it hasn't changed much
<Seveaz> ogra, it's pretty similar to CC :)
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<Seveaz> so, let's begin with candidate no. 1: ronnietucker
<Seveaz> Ronnie, please introduce yourself
<MichealH> Ronnie Idletime: 1 hour?
<ronnietucker> Hi! I'm Ronnie Tucker the editor of Full Circle magazine which has been running for over three years now
<Seveaz> MichealH: sst.
<ronnietucker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RonnieTucker
<Seveaz> ronnietucker: you've been here a few months ago as well, have you?
<popey> he missed the last meeting iirc Seveaz
 * ogra_cmpc is impressed by that wikipage
<czajkowski> wow nice set of testimonials.
<highvoltage> yes, he was on the agenda for the lastmeeting but couldn't make it
<czajkowski> I beleive that was the issue the last time, ther weren't any
<Seveaz> yes, I recall that as well
<Seveaz> that's evidently been fixed
<highvoltage> It's an interesting case since his work wasn't in Ubuntu itself, but imho he's clearly been representing the Ubuntu community and doing great work at promoting it and spreading knowledge over the past few years
<popey> indeed, I've been watching and reading fullcircle over the years, and ronnietucker has steered that ship well in that time
<highvoltage> ronnietucker: do you have any future plans or other areas that you plan to work on some day?
<halvors> Should we vote for RonnieTrucker or?
<Seveaz> halvors: only board members vote.
<halvors> yes i know
<ronnietucker> I intend to continually refine Full Circle to make it better each and every month
<MichealH> Seveaz, Can we ask questions?
<popey> ronnietucker: there's also the full circle podcast now to compliment the magazine
<highvoltage> MichealH: board members can ask questions now, basically you can contribute input if you know ronnietucker, otherwise you should just remain quiet until it's your turn
<ronnietucker> indeed
<MichealH> highvoltage, Ok
<HardDisk> ronnietucker, if you stick around for my part, I actually have a part written that talks about you.
<ronnietucker> uh oh ;)
<HardDisk> trust me it's good :)
<drubin> ronnietucker: Any plans to be more involved with your loco?
<Seveaz> Ok, I'm +1. Full Circle is a good contribution to the ubuntu community
<highvoltage> also +1
<drubin> Either way +1 from my side
<czajkowski> +1 also based on the promotion of Ubuntu
<popey> yeah, I'm easily +1, it's been consistent over the years.
<ogra_cmpc> a clear +1 from here too
<Seveaz> need to get used to the new team, have we all voted?
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<HardDisk> congratulations :)
<ogra_cmpc> Seveas, even if we didnt, thats surely a vast majority :)
<Seveaz> yes, we all voted
<ronnietucker> Thank you all!
<popey> adding to ubuntumembers
<Seveaz> congrats ronnietucker!
<czajkowski> ronnietucker: congrats and welcome :)
<highvoltage> ronnietucker: congratulations and welcom
<highvoltage> e
<popey> done
<czajkowski> Seveaz: next time can we use MootBot :) please
<ogra_cmpc> congrats and thanks for all that work :)
<drubin> ronnietucker: welcome aboard
<vish> Seveaz: probably the bot and voting would be easier to keep track
 * czajkowski is editing the wiki atm 
<legreffier> congrats and one pound shoeslaces to you ronnietucker
<halvors> congratulations ronnie ;)
<MichealH> ronnietucker, Well Done!
<McPeter> congrats ronnietucker
<Seveaz> czajkowski: if mootbot allows us to restrict votes to the team: why not
<popey> congrats ronnietucker
 * popey notes czajkowski voting to chair the next meeting :)
<HardDisk> mabrook ronnie
<Seveaz> next up: halvors. Please iintroduce yourself to the board
<czajkowski> popey: shhhhh I'm new :p
<Seveaz> popey: I'd +1 that :)
 * ogra_cmpc grins
<czajkowski> halvors: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors
<czajkowski> ogra_cmpc: you're next buddy!
<ogra_cmpc> haha
<halvors> I am halovrs, from Norway, i work for The OpenRcon Project, and transelate Ubuntu into my countrys language ;)
<halvors> And my wiki site: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/halvors ;)
<halvors> oh sorry...
<czajkowski> halvors: your wiki is very bare
<halvors> i know sorry :(
<Seveaz> I'm going for instant -1 because there is nothing to go on on that wikipage. halvors please make sure your wikipage is prepared before the meeting so we can actually verify your contributions.
<halvors> ok
<czajkowski> halvors: you dont have any testimonials, nor any information on the work  you['ve done or plan to do, so I'm sorry it's going to be a -1
<highvoltage> -1 [ incomplete proposal and insufficient evidence of any sustained contributions ]
<popey> I agree with Seveaz, -1, we need detail on the wiki page which outlines your contributions to the project.
<drubin> I am also going for a -1 for now.
<highvoltage> halvors: please refer to the Preparing your Application section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<ogra_cmpc> your work sounds intresting but you need to put it into a rather bigger presentation for next meeting
<halvors> Ok, i know the Ubuntu community dont need me :(
<Seveaz> halvors: that's not true at all
<ogra_cmpc> halvors, thats not true
<drubin> halvors: We are just postoning membership right now. We value every ones contributions
<czajkowski> halvors: not at all, if you need a hand with your wiki creation give me a shout and I'll help you
<Seveaz> translation work is more than welcome, and you have some karma there so you do work. However, it is difficult for us to verify your work if you don't document it and collect testimonials from others
<halvors> i have been here before, last meeting at Asia board i got the same reply :(
<ogra_cmpc> halvors, its just that we need to judge based on these wikipages, i find you very intresting and would really appreciate if you came back next time with a bit more fleshed out wiki
<highvoltage> halvors: our job is to review your application for membership, that's quite hard to do without an application
<czajkowski> halvors: after the meeting would you like a hand ?
<halvors> so what should i have in the wiki?
<halvors> work, etc
<popey> halvors: czajkowski will help after the meeting
<halvors> what more?
<czajkowski> halvors: after the meeting please
<Seveaz> halvors: sorry, we have to continue the meeting now, please talk to czajkowski afterwards
<Seveaz> andrejz: you're up
<andrejz> ok
<andrejz> i am andrej from slovenia, my wiki is here
<halvors> Sorry, but i am some busy, but maybe we can talk here tomorow?
<andrejz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrejZnidarsic
<halvors> ok
<halvors> i understand :)
<czajkowski> andrejz: is there anyone in here to support you today ?
<halvors> Se you tomorrow :)
<andrejz> as you can see i am mostly involved in translation into slovenian language, where i am one of the core members of gnome translation team,
<Seveaz> that's an impressive amount of translations
<czajkowski> halvors: see pm
<Seveaz> are you leading the ubuntu slovenian translators team?
<andrejz> no, i am on my own, but statistics says a lot, i believe
<MichealH> 2 tick I need to sign out me lag is terrible
<andrejz> well, we are in the phase of transition
 * popey hugs chrome auto-translate from slovenian to english
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<Seveaz> andrejz: what kind of transition?
<andrejz> the previos leader is slowly stepping down and i am replacing him
<andrejz> but there wasn't really any team before
<Seveaz> andrejz: that's an interesting phase.
<andrejz> of course people were members of the group, but there wasn't any communication between team members, or any organization
<czajkowski> andrejz: so what do you see in the future for your LoCo ?
<andrejz> or at least organized communication - of course i contacted a translator which was translating the same package as me, but nothing was organized
<andrejz> well, there are a couple of people there, which are attempting to get an official LoCo set up
<andrejz> and i am helping out a little bit with ideas on IRC
<Seveaz> andrejz: I like the work you're doing, but I'm going for -1. I'd like some comments on your wikipage from other members of your locoteam, other than that it looks good
<andrejz> i write linux/opensource/ubuntu news to educate the people who visit the loco site
<highvoltage> I like the work that andrejz is doing
<ogra_cmpc> or at least someone speaking up for you here would be nice
<Seveaz> especially as your locoteam is changing, comments from others are a good indication of your work
<highvoltage> it's good work but I think we need to see more of it, +0
<popey> thats a significant chunk of work done there
<ogra_cmpc> i'm with Seveas here, the work looks great but a testemonial would help
<ogra_cmpc> +/-0 from here
<czajkowski> andrejz: I'm going to go +0 as I'd like to see some testominals
<drubin> +0 from my side. same as highvoltage, I would love to see peoples comments
<Seveaz> highvoltage: I don't think quantity is a problem, but the quality is a bit hard to judge without some testimonials
<highvoltage> Seveaz: yep
<popey> yeah I'm gonna go +0 here too. I'd love to see you come back with an update wiki page next month!
<ogra_cmpc> ++
<andrejz> well, i am mostly concentrating on the translation part, since i don't have time to be involved directly in the events and so forth
<Seveaz> andrejz: if you can collect some comments/testimonials on your wikipage and come back next meeting, then you'll be approved in no time
<czajkowski> andrejz: I'm sure folks on the gnome community would gladly leave a testimonial of you asked
<Dice-Man> does the meeting start ?
<andrejz> if you are interested in the quality of my work, i can ask a leader of gnome translation team to give some testimonials
<Seveaz> but for now I'm afraid you have to wait
<andrejz> is that ok ?
<Seveaz> andrejz: yes, excellent idea
<popey> andrejz: that would be awesome
<andrejz> ok, that can be done
<andrejz> so in a month's time ?
<popey> yeah, first tuesday
<ogra_cmpc> right
<Seveaz> andrejz: first tuesday of the month
<highvoltage> andrejz: when you do establish that quality control system, or any of the other future plans listed on your page, please write a sentence about it on your application, it will also help
<andrejz> well what we mostly are trying to do is educate the translators
<Seveaz> cool
<Seveaz> see you in a month then!
<andrejz> as most of them just clicked on the translate this application link in ubuntu and weren't aware of the rules
<andrejz> see you then
<Seveaz> MichealH / MichealH_: you're up next
<highvoltage> andrejz: thanks for your good work and see you next time!
<ogra_cmpc> so get a translator to tell us about it (or write about it in the wiki) ;)
<drubin> andrejz: thanks see you next meeting
<MichealH> Hi, I am Miicheal Harker and I have contributed lots to the Ubuntu Community, Mainly by making HOWTO's and Tutorials. I am not really a developer but the inspiration got me through. People had requested alot and I had gave them it. I have the stuff on my Wiki
<MichealH> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.ocm/Micheal_Harker
<MichealH> Site: http://www.michealh.co.cc
<czajkowski> MichealH: so you got involved a month ago, what made you start?
<drubin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Micheal_Harker << fixed link
<MichealH> Not a month ago It was more like 3 years ago I started Ubuntu
<popey> the forum links are broken
<Seveaz> other contributions are minimal, where can we find these howtos/tutorials?
<MichealH> I didnt link them I hav just edited it like 30 mins ago in a rush sorry popey
<highvoltage> -1 [ Wiki page contains insuficcient documentation of sustained contribution and application is otherwise incomplete ]
<MichealH> They should be on my wiki
<czajkowski> -1 wiki page is incomplete
<Seveaz> well, they are not
<Seveaz> -1 for bad preparation. I believe czajkowski is volunteering to help there :)
<MichealH> here is one: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...0
<MichealH> That is my 64 bit Flash one
<Seveaz> MichealH: that's a broken link.
<czajkowski> Seveaz: I am...
<drubin> -1 [Wiki page is incomplete and LP profile is +- only 6 months old I would like to see more continued involvement]
<highvoltage> MichealH: At the minimum you need to follow the steps listed on the Preparing your Application section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<MichealH> Broken?
<popey> the forums links are busted
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, here too
<MichealH> This one is correct:http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...06&postcount=1
<popey> no, it isnt
<Seveaz> no, it is not
<highvoltage> MichealH: please keep in mind that as individuals we don't follow you personally, so we rely on a complete application in order to judge membership
<popey> I'll -1 too for the same reasons as others have cited. We need an up to date and working wiki page to work from
<MichealH> Grr the thing is going wrong. It is at www.michealh.co.cc/ubuntu/member the link are there promise they are just shortened
<ogra_cmpc> MichealH, clicking the forum links gets me to the forums frontpage
<MichealH> This is all going weird I had tripple checked tose links
<popey> has everyone voted?
<ogra_cmpc> well, same thing on your homepage
<Seveaz> only ogra_cmpc has not
<ogra_cmpc> +0 from me
<Seveaz> ok, MichealH please prepare your wikipage better next time
<Seveaz> legreffier: you're next
<legreffier> yes
<MichealH> I will apply next time.
 * ogra_cmpc likes MichealH's enthusiasm, please keep that up :)
 * drubin too
<ogra_cmpc> its just a bit of paperwork
<MichealH> Thanks ogra_cmpc
<MichealH> I will get the paperwork sorted well
<MichealH> Very well
<ogra_cmpc> great
<Seveaz> legreffier: please introduce yourself
<czajkowski> moving on...
<legreffier> ok
<legreffier> hello
<legreffier> My name is Yoann, i'm from France :)
<highvoltage> Bonjour
<legreffier> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LeGreffier
<legreffier> I'm a member from the #ubuntu-fr team for a year
<highvoltage> legreffier: what are your interests in Ubuntu?
<legreffier> and a helper on irc for a few more.
 * popey pokes the wiki
<legreffier> well , it's simple and cares great ideas.
<czajkowski> legreffier: I noticed you don't have any testimonials, can you tell me about some involvement in your LoCO ?
<czajkowski> I know the french loco is very active
<legreffier> czajkowski: i have now!
<popey> czajkowski: there's 4
<highvoltage> legreffier: how do you contribute to vimperator plugins and extensions?
<Seveaz> legreffier: he has some brief comments
 * ogra_cmpc reloads
<legreffier> i went to a few UP! but i'm not involved in the loco despite it's active.
<czajkowski> reloads also
<niko> yes, he has some, he is an active op in #ubuntu-fr* namespace
<Seveaz> legreffier: why are you not involved in the loco?
<czajkowski> huats: ping
<legreffier> i lack the time for
<legreffier> despite I'd like to get more involved.
<Seveaz> I think that's a good idea
<highvoltage> +0 [ Good work but I would like to see more before I'd be able to consider it significant and sustained contributions ]
 * ogra_cmpc thinks that too, but i dont see loco membership as a requirement 
<huats> czajkowski, pong
<niko> huats: c'est Ã  propos du membership de legreffier :)
<McPeter> huats, o/
<huats> czajkowski, hello !
<legreffier> i didn't know it was one + i think i lack some social skill[sz] as well.
<huats> and everyone elsetoo
<huats> :)
<Seveaz> I'm with highvoltage but more +0.5 than +0
<BlackZ> hey huats :)
<legreffier> hello huats
<ogra_cmpc> huats, can you tell us something about legreffier
<highvoltage> Seveaz: heh, me too really
<huats> legreffier, is indeed one of aour very active op in the french team
<huats> he is part of the team
<Seveaz> huats: what kind of things does he do?
<huats> he has been granted the right to participate
<huats> in the admin side
<huats> which is great already
<huats> since we have quite a channel with quite a high number of people
<ogra_cmpc> huats, so his work helps your team (and ubuntu) ?
<huats> ogra_cmpc, definitly
<czajkowski> huats: so you think he contributes to the  french team
<huats> currently 232 people on the channel
 * ogra_cmpc is +1 then
<huats> we need to have quite some ops :)
<Seveaz> yeah, changong to +1 too
<czajkowski> ok based on huats comments I'm +1
<czajkowski> huats: thanks for coming in :)
<drubin> +1 From my side
<huats> czajkowski, he is clearly a part of the team
<popey> yeah, thanks huats ! +1 from me too
<davromaniak> legreffier is a very good person in ubuntu-fr and also in professional "life"
<ogra_cmpc> huats, thanks a lot that heloed much
<huats> your welcome everyone
<huats> :)
<drubin> btw that is more people then in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra_cmpc> *helped
<czajkowski> whoo welcome legreffier
<niko> yep, as member of the ubuntu-fr ops, i'm agree :)
<highvoltage> legreffier: congratulations and welcome!
<ogra_cmpc> congrats legreffier
<Seveaz> ok, that's +5.5, welcome aboard!
<legreffier> oh rly?
<huats> congrats legredier :)
<legreffier> :)
<HardDisk> congratulations :)
<niko> congrats :)
<ogra_cmpc> yes :)
<huats> legreffier, ::)
<drubin> congrats
<legreffier>  great thank you very much
<Seveaz> popey: would you mind doing launchpad duty? I'm on a spare box without my lp password
<popey> added
<HardDisk> niko..you're here :) good
<legreffier> :D
<McPeter> ubuntu meber of ubuntu-fr ops too .. i agree too
 * czajkowski is editing the wiki 
<popey> congrats legreffier
<Seveaz> BlackZ: you're up
<BlackZ> Hi all, My name is Lorenzo De Liso and I'm from Italy. I started to use ubuntu since few years. I work as a IT security consultant for a datacenter and as a developer for a company.
<BlackZ> I'm an ubuntu contributor in many ways: I triage bugs (I'm a member of the ubuntu bugcontrol team), I review and test patches (I'm a member of the  ubuntu reviewers team), I'm an helper for users which wants to join an ubuntu development team (e.g. MOTU) (I'm a member of the mentoring reception team, we're reorganizing the team, the documentation ..).
<McPeter> legreffier, congrats :)
<BlackZ> I have did some translations in Italian, I'm the maintainer of some templates (hope to join the Italian translation team soon!), I also help sometimes in the channel #ubuntu-it.
<niko> hello, HardDisk, again, apologies for my mistake few days ago :)
<BlackZ> See my ubuntu wiki page ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LorenzoDeLiso ) and my launchpad page ( https://www.launchpad.net/~blackz ) for more details.
<HardDisk> niko, lol I actually have a good speech to say and it involves you in a good way :)
<HardDisk> sorry to interrupt.
<highvoltage> BlackZ: based on your packaging work and your intent to become a MOTU, did you consider taking becoming a motu-contributing-member perhaps?
<BlackZ> highvoltage: yeah, in the future
<highvoltage> ok, you could do that based on your existing work already.
<BlackZ> highvoltage: I don't want that right now
<BlackZ> since I don't think the work is enough ;)
<highvoltage> BlackZ: for a contributing member you don't need a lot of work, the contributing members is a step below full MOTU
<Dice-Man> hello legreffier
<BlackZ> highvoltage: yeah but the bug triaging isn't *JUST* part of the ubuntu development
<BlackZ> so can't I apply? :(
<Seveaz> BlackZ: yes you can, but the more logical route is the development track
<czajkowski> BlackZ: can you tell me your involvement in the italian loco ?
<highvoltage> BlackZ: yes you can!
<BlackZ> czajkowski: yes, I'm involved with the italian forum, the italian translation team, the italian documentation project
<BlackZ> see my wiki page for full details
<highvoltage> BlackZ: well let's talk about that after the meeting
<BlackZ> ... OK
<Seveaz> highvoltage: so you're voting -1?
<highvoltage> Seveaz: I'm still deciding but it will probably be +1
<huats> I know it is not the issue here, but I'd like to stress the implication of BlackZ in the motu mentoring reception team.
<Seveaz> I'm leaning towards +1
<drubin> I am going for a +0 [as I think BlackZ work has mostly been packaging related and suggests trying to apply via that route]
<Seveaz> huats: implication?
<huats> I am leading the team
<huats> the team was quite dead
<huats> I have asked for help
<huats> and for the last 2 month
<huats> a new team is working on redifining the processes
<huats> and everything related to the mentoring of future developers
<highvoltage> BlackZ: https://launchpad.net/~blackz/+related-software shows recent uploads to Lucid and Maverick, what work did you do on those packages?
<huats> BlackZ, is a member of the people who are rebuilding the team
<huats> so we are having (almost) weekly meeting
<huats> exchanging various email
<huats> related to that
<BlackZ> highvoltage: it depends, sometime I just request a sync, I do the packaging work or I do a merge
<Seveaz> huats: ok, that make me go -0 because the motu/developer route is really much more appropriate then
<huats> in order to redefine the process
<Seveaz> that work seems absolutely awesome, but not really our 'territory'
<czajkowski> I thik -0 due to the MOTU work tbh
<BlackZ> Seveas: please see also the contribute to the #ubuntu-it channel
<huats> (we haven't communicate over it since we haven't addressed all the issues)
<BlackZ> ... why are you seeing just the contribute to MOTU?
<BlackZ> I'm confused
<highvoltage> BlackZ: I just checked the changelogs, you actually did some good work and I think you should really applu for a universe contributor at some stage
<drubin> BlackZ: We just think your MOTU work outways your community involvement. (in a good way)
<huats> Seveaz, it is part of the Ubuntu community
<popey> i dont think one negates the other
<highvoltage> +1 from me
 * ogra_cmpc sees bug contribution as well as irc, doc and translation contribution
<czajkowski> BlackZ: it's a good thing, as drubin has said we think your MOTU work outweighs your community work
 * popey votes +1
<czajkowski> it;s all Ubutnu work just in different ways
 * ogra_cmpc is +1
<popey> a great mix of work
 * drubin is still +0
<drubin> Hoping BlackZ will go the MOTU route :)
<BlackZ> drubin: I will, but in the future
<Seveaz> that's +3, which is a hung jury
<ogra_cmpc> though indeed i would encourage to move on with MOTU but the other contribution surely is enough for membership
<BlackZ> I don't want to do that now since I'm not contributing just to MOTU
<highvoltage> Seveaz: has czajkowski voted?
<czajkowski>  did
<popey> yes
<czajkowski> I did
<BlackZ> or better, the ubuntu development
<HardDisk> such contraversy :)
<popey> i dont think we should punish BlackZ by holding back membership when there is clearly more than just motu work
<ogra_cmpc> ++
<BlackZ> as huats said, mentoring reception is part of the ubuntu community work
<BlackZ> also, see *ALL* testimonials
<HardDisk> controversy even*
<Seveaz> BlackZ: can you give us a link to your forum profile?
<highvoltage> BlackZ: I didn't mean MOTU, I meant universe-contributors, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev
<highvoltage> BlackZ: that's basically getting membership through the DMB, I'm sorry you couldn't make it tonight but I know you'll get there
<huats> highvoltage, I agree that BlackZ should first try to get universe-contributor before looking for the Ubuntu membership
<popey> well, its not a yes or a no
<Seveaz> BlackZ: ?
<huats> sorry
<huats> highvoltage,
<huats> I meant
<BlackZ> http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?action=profile;u=74705
<huats> highvoltage, I agree that BlackZ should first try to get universe-contributor before looking for the MOTU membership
<BlackZ> -> Seveas
 * BlackZ still don't know the reason for apply to MOTU instead since he has contributed in many ways and not just in the ubuntu development
<popey> uhm, its not hung
<Seveaz> popey: +4 is majority
<popey> 3 are +1, 3 are 0, no -1
<ogra_cmpc> Seveas, one +0 ?
<ogra_cmpc> oh 3 +0 ?
<Seveaz> forum profile only has 48 posts, where are most of your contributions to the loco?
 * ogra_cmpc somehow missed that
<BlackZ> Seveas: see in the wiki page the testimonials for the #ubuntu-it help
<BlackZ> also see my translation work
<highvoltage> we've voted and provided feedback, let's move on so that the last two people can still apply in this meeting
<popey> ok, the way I see it you have a choice, come back another time or go to the motu membership, or appeal to the cc
<popey> does that sound fair to the emea board?
<Seveaz> it sounds like the sanest solution popey
<highvoltage> yep
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt get our voting mechanism
<popey> ogra_cmpc: needs 4+ to pass
<ogra_cmpc> its an overall +3 or not
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<drubin> yes popey
<czajkowski> popey: sounds good.
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: board members can mod up or down or abstain. a candidate requires a score of "4" to gain membership
<czajkowski> can we move on to the last two
<Seveaz> ok, BlackZ sorry to disappoint
<Seveaz> let's move on
<Seveaz> sirex``: you're up
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, k
 * sirex` is here
<sirex`> Hi. My name is Mantas Zimnickas. Currently I'm leading Lithuanian Ubuntu community. Here in Lithuania we have only one Ubuntu Member â Tomas Å½eimys, but his membership expired few days ago. Tomas Å½eimys now has his own business and he is wery busy, so officially decided to leave Ubuntu Community. So I will try to replace him with communication with Ubuntu people from outside of Lithuania.
<highvoltage> great, thanks for doing that sirex`
<czajkowski> sirex`: nice wiki layout
<Seveaz> nice wiki content as well
<Seveaz> quite easily +1 from me
<MichealH> sorry vbrummond Too late, I didnt get it Just PM me a testimonial like I PM ed you
<highvoltage> their website is also nice
<MichealH> and the I will add it
<Seveaz> MichealH: please take this to pm. The meeting is still ongoing
<MichealH> oops
<drubin> easy +1
<ogra_cmpc> +1
<czajkowski> easy +1 also, nice job and good luck wiht the team
<highvoltage> +1 based on loco development and other community support
<popey> oh wow, thats +1
<Seveaz> yay for well-prepared people
<Seveaz> welcome aboard sirex` !
<popey> btw we're overrunning into a cc meeting which is happening now, but we have nothing on the agenda, and I'm sure the cc will wait :)
<highvoltage> sirex`: congratulations and welcome!
<drubin> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs108.snc1/4798_99295467892_99285012892_2157158_349195_n.jpg
<sirex`> Thanks
<Seveaz> last candidate: HardDisk
<czajkowski> popey: we'll make it quick
<HardDisk> congratulations :)
<HardDisk> ok bare with me I have a lot to past :D
<HardDisk> -----
<HardDisk> Hi, my name is Sam Azab https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SamAzab, as you quickly browse my wiki site info.  Just a quick recap, I am a 31 year old Egyptian and the founder of #ubuntu-eg.  I took over as team leader since the previous leader stayed idle for 3 years without really doing anything.  So I decided to apply last year for ubuntu membership not fully understanding what it meant to be a member which is why I was rejected at the time.
<popey> added to ubuntumembers
<HardDisk> Today I present to you a new me literally.  Coincidentally yesterday a freenode op niko accidentally dropped my nick, and I had to go through jussi and tsimpson to get my channel back and given access back to me, so I think it was a sign that this occured on the eve of applying for membership :)...  I have revamped and recreated our EgyptTeam wiki site, I have been involved in producing and helping in our very first release party in C
<HardDisk> airo Egypt at Cairo University, I am the one in the superman Tshirt and the ubuntu cap :)  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Events
<HardDisk> I was also inspired by Ronnie Tucker's Full Circle Magazine, but instead of just creating a translation version of his magazine like other languages and people have done.  I took a step further but helping in arranging our first Arabic based ubuntu magazine, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Meetings/Articles/First%20Arabic%20Edition%20Ubuntu%20Plus%20Magazine and we have had lots of people downloading it via posts from our mailing li
<HardDisk> st, from our forum links and have had good feedback till now.
<highvoltage> HardDisk: seems like the only 2 meetings the EgyptTeam had occured in the last two months, has there been a recent revival?
<HardDisk> yes
<HardDisk> I currently run a personal ubuntu blog, http://sambuntu.blogspot.com, but on Sunday we conducted a meeting into creating our first team blog/video blog/aggregator and we are in the process of producing such a site by the end of next week.  Many members are in exams right now so they are not able to attend this meeting, but I have their moral support.  Simple reason I don't have testimonials yet is due to the fact my members are very n
<HardDisk> ew and are still in the process of beginning themselves, and I am "mentoring" them into becoming productive members of the LoCo team, and explaining what it means to be part of such a team.
<HardDisk> The mailing list is the best proof of my work with the team, so I'm sure you have access to those resources, actions speak louder than words.  Also tsimpson was kindly to add lubotu3 yesterday to our channel, and we already discussed in our mailing list that we will prepare arabic localized factoids and apply them then wait for the IRC council to approve them to be placed up.
<HardDisk> I believe from my first encounter of basically doing nothing to what I have achieved up to this moment in a year deserves recognition and that being becoming an official member with the ubuntu community.
<HardDisk> and that's all I have to say.  Questions?
<Seveaz> I see one event and no testimonials. It looks like you're doing good work, but there's not much to confirm that.
<Seveaz> How large is the locoteam in egypt?
<HardDisk> officially, 10 members.
<HardDisk> unofficially, 25
<Seveaz> then why did none of them comment on your wikipage?
<HardDisk> because none of them have wiki pages
<ogra_cmpc> they can just comment on yours though
<ogra_cmpc> or come over from #ubuntu-eg now and speak up
<HardDisk> well I explained already that the mailing list is the best proof of my work with the team.
<czajkowski> HardDisk: they don't need a wiki page to comment, just leave their name or link to launchpad
<HardDisk> and its all in arabic
<highvoltage> +0 [ really good work, but it's all very recent and I'd like to see more evidence of significant and sustained contribution before I could give a +1 ]
<Seveaz> +0 as well, same reasons
<drubin> +0 same reasnos
<HardDisk> see I disagree.
<czajkowski> +0
<HardDisk> because your reasons are the same I was told last time.
 * ogra_cmpc is +0.5 the work looks good but some testimonials would be nice
<czajkowski> testiminals would help HardDisk
<HardDisk> I wont be able to get testimonials in english.
<Seveaz> why not?
<highvoltage> HardDisk: I'm glad that you do disagree, I'd like to give you a +1 and suggest that you re-apply in about 3 months
<HardDisk> because we speak arabic
<ogra_cmpc> get them in arabic if you cant get them in english
<HardDisk> im the only english speaker here
<Seveaz> HardDisk: then let them add the testimonials in arabic and translate them for us :)
<ogra_cmpc> we'll use google translate worst case
<czajkowski> HardDisk: ask ogra_cmpc said they dont have to be in english we can get google translate
<HardDisk> well it will take more than three months then
<highvoltage> HardDisk: we'll accept testimonials in Arabic
<HardDisk> because they are still learning the process
<HardDisk> maybe ill apply next year if I get the urge.
<Seveaz> HardDisk: there's no rush :)
<HardDisk> 2nd rejection isnt exactly encouraging for me.
<popey> sorry, connection issues
<highvoltage> HardDisk: your last application was quite recent iirc
<HardDisk> thank you for your time.
<drubin> HardDisk: Same here, get them to write them in Arabic
<ogra_cmpc> HardDisk, just ask each of the ten people in #ubuntu-eg to write one sentence about you for next meeting
<highvoltage> HardDisk: and there hasn't been much change since then, I suggest you get the Loco team solid, and get it approved as an official loco
<ogra_cmpc> HardDisk, or even make them come in here
<HardDisk> we'll see, thanks.
<highvoltage> HardDisk: I really believe you're doing good work and would love to give you a +1 in the future
 * ogra_cmpc too
 * drubin also
<HardDisk> appreciate the incentive.
<ogra_cmpc> i'm actually only 0.5 away from that personally :)
<Seveaz> ok, that concludes todays meeting, let's give the room to the CC
<highvoltage> thanks everyone, next Meeting is on July 6th, 20:00 UTC
<ogra_cmpc> thanks
<czajkowski> highvoltage: wiki page updated
<Seveaz> oh damn, I won't make that one
<Technoviking> anyome here from the CC meeting?
<Seveaz> see you all in 2 months then :)
<highvoltage> Seveaz: holidays?
<Seveaz> Technoviking: actually, if there's an "anyone else" opportunity, I'd like to bring an issue to the table
<popey> thanks everyone
<Technoviking> any other CC people here
<popey> o/
<highvoltage> czajkowski: that was fast, thanks
<Technoviking> Seveaz: sure, let me see if we have close to quorum:)
<popey> (unsurprisingly)
<Seveaz> Technoviking: it won't need a vote
<popey> we dont need quorum to discuss :)
<Technoviking> Seveaz: then seize the day
<Seveaz> ok
<Technoviking> :)
<popey> pleia2 / nixternal ?
<highvoltage> it's all boring stuff on the fixed agenda anyway :)
 * pleia2 waves
<pleia2> sorry, at work, was distracted :)
<McPeter> bye bye all &amp; see later
<Seveaz> we had one candidate just now that had most contributions in motu/dev land and marginal verifiable contributions in loco land. He received 3 +1 votes and 3 neutral votes, so hung jury. We do feel bad about sending a message that says 'rejected' though and some CC guidance could be useful.
<MichealH> Popey,What would I need to be successful next time
<popey> MichealH: there's a meeting going on right now
<MichealH> oops sorry
<pleia2> Seveaz: are they interested in membership via motu instead? (sorry if this is in the scrollback)
<Seveaz> the neutral votes were all because the voters thought he should go that route, he was interested but 'didn't want to do that just yet'
<pleia2> you did the right thing, and Americas board doesn't list deferrals (or rejections) in our announcements
<pleia2> just new members, we just keep a record of those who are coming back and make sure to refer to it when they return
<Seveaz> we don't either, but this vote sends such a message to the candidate. He felt rejected
<maco> may i poke my head in a moment?
<drubin> as one of the people that voted +0 it was for that very reason.
<pleia2> gotcha, yeah, being delicate with these things is tricky sometimes, people get quite stressed about these applications
<maco> do the "contributing developer" category get membership automatically like motu?
<huats> maco, yep
<MichealH> I feel sorry for the guy
<drubin> yes
<maco> if someone's not prepared for motu yet but is a good contributor, that may be the route to send them
<maco> er good contributor-in-the-dev-sense
<highvoltage> maco: yes, I tried to explain it but was met with resistance
<Seveaz> ok, thanks. Makes me feel better about it :)
<ajmitch> highvoltage: it could in a way be seen as discouraging doing 'too much' development work (though perhaps not enough to get membership on development work alone)
<highvoltage> maco: he's actually done some really good packaging work and lists "becomming MOTU" as his future plans, so I'm not sure why he was resistant to the contributing-developer route
<highvoltage> ajmitch: that's what I figured too
<huats> sorry to interrupt you but it is not the definition given by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<czajkowski> I've just mentioned that page should possibly be updated to reflect the packaging and  development
<drubin> czajkowski: ^
<maco> ajmitch: if there's a decent balance of community work too, i'd +1. i think its just hard for the non-devs on the RMBs to judge dev contributions
<MichealH> basiccly I take rejection as a time to think about why I didn't get in and how I can make it better in the future thus, people ahpulnt take it seriously in my opinion
<pleia2> lack of testimonials is also an issue (not sure how we can stress how important these are more, we had this problem at the last americas meeting too)
<maco> yep, 3 deferrals due to lack of testimonials last time
<MichealH> I agree testimonials are key tto esure quality
<Seveaz> emea sees that a lot as well
<pleia2> sometimes it's ok to approve w/o testimonials, but there need to be pictures and very public work that's well-documented
<maco> our loco has a flickr group so that when anyone around here goes up for membership we can just point at it.  or when czajkowski is deciding the team's fate :P
<MichealH> as long as we see the quality I would +1
<popey> wonder if we should spam/mail people who add themselves to the agenda with 'what we expect' ?
<Seveaz> popey: we could emphasize it a bit more on the wikipage
<Pendulum> maybe someone could blog about it too as a reminder?
<popey> Seveaz: they clearly dont read the wiki page
<czajkowski> maco: more than me on the board for loco council.
<pleia2> Pendulum: blogging is ok, but it only reaches people at a specific moment in time
<maco> czajkowski: eh youre the only one i know, and you're here :P
<Seveaz> it helped for 1 meeting after I did that last time :)
<popey> hah
<czajkowski> maco: popey
<maco> popey: are we able to make BIG text on the wiki?
<popey> yup
<ajmitch> <blink> tags?
<popey> and a stop sign
<maco> like "GET TESTIMONIALS ON YOUR PAGE OR WE'LL SAY NO!"
<MichealH> lol
<Seveaz> ok, let's put another question forward: how much should the RMB's take dev work into account?
<Seveaz> (ok, it's the same question, posed differently)
<lifeless> as evidence of sustained significant contribution, a lot
<highvoltage> Seveaz: if a board member can judge the technical contributions, they should be allowed to vote to reflect positive contributions
<MichealH> I don't think they should at all Someone may not develop and will be left out
<lifeless> but only if the RMB feels able to assess the work in question
<maco> highvoltage: thats the worry i would have
<lifeless> MichealH: we look for multiple forms of contribution, I don't see why we'd leave someone out.
<highvoltage> maco: if someone wants to apply on pure technical merit, they should really apply to the DMB
<maco> how many of the people on each RMB are developer sorts *and* confident in their ability to judge others' technical contributions
<ajmitch> MichealH: this is trying to avoid the case of someone being left out at that meeting because they're being told to apply to the DMB
<maco> highvoltage: yeah thats why i said if they have a good balance of community stuff then i'd +1 in the RMB
<lifeless> maco: in the asia RMB, there is me and persia
<MichealH> I know that but If you took dev work that seriously the. that may happen
<highvoltage> maco: if someone's contributions are a mix of community and developer work, then the RMBs certainly seem appropriate
<drubin> I am happy to judge people bassed on technical merts, I was under the impression that technical contributions were for the DMB
<lifeless> maco: I can't comment on other RMB's without looking up their memberships
<pleia2> I trust my fellow board members, if someone on the board can accurately evaluate contributions in dev-stuff I will trust their opinion when weighed against other work I can evaluate
<huats> If I may : during the vote for that person, it has been said something like : "you contribution to the MOTU outweight (in a good way) your community work, so +0 for the Ubuntu membership.".
<Seveaz> drubin: well, in this case I think the dev work far outweighrd community contributions, so I refered to the DMB
<maco> highvoltage: agreed though i'd think the amount of each might be a factor. if they do a lot of technical and attended one release party... i'd send them to the DMB
<MichealH> I think people who get people to come along to meeting to support them should get considered
<huats> So I can understand that the technical contribution are not easily weightable, but if it is the case it should be reflected on the definition of the Ubuntu Membership
<lifeless> MichealH: what are you concerned about in particular, I'm really not clear what you're saying.
<pleia2> MichealH: people who come along to support count as testimonials
<highvoltage> maco: indeed, I'd clearly not count attending a release party a whole lot towards membership
<maco> huats: thing is, technical contributions *do* count. thats why motu and UCD and core devs are automatically members. its just that a different set of people may be needed to do the evaluation
<MichealH> if here was someone there to back someones contributions then the person applying should be considered more than the others
<maco> i dont think written v. in-person testimonials should count separately
<maco> er, differently
<Seveaz> I agree with maco
<lifeless> MichealH: I get the feeling that you feel that applications are a contest. Is that right ?
<charlie-tca> MichealH: the supporter just needs to speak up
<Seveaz> actually, I even prefer wiki testimonials
<Seveaz> easier to track and less festive in the channel...
<maco> Seveaz: better record keeping?
<highvoltage> Seveaz: indeed, and it shows that someone was willing to do a tiny bit of effort in preperation
<huats> maco, that is my point (since I am MOTU too...) :) but if someone can not evaluate someone else work, it is complicated to vote
<lifeless> highvoltage: re when to use the DMB: If someone is very technical but applying that in ways that aren't package-uploads, I think the RMB is right.
<MichealH> no you getting it wrong it's not that it's just someone to back their contributions have given 1 hour o heir time to back them up makes it look like the quality of their work is outstanding
<highvoltage> lifeless: yep, agree 100% there
<lifeless> highvoltage: e.g. mass rebuilds, large scale bug triage with automated analysis, Loco web site maintenance etc.
<maco> lifeless: if theyre writing patches but not packaging them themselves... would you say RMB or DMB-for-UCD?
<MichealH> There was alot of people there who have locos but don't use them or don't upadate them should we take that into account
<huats> maco, we are not talking about UCD right ? we are talking about membership in general
<lifeless> maco: If they are getting the patches *in*, I'd consider it in the RMB, but be a lot happier if their sponsor just got around to proposing them for DMB
<lifeless> maco: if the patches aren't getting in, then it doesn't matter how much time they spend writing them, its not actually helping anything -> not a contribution. Sadly. So I'd encourage them to work on closing the loop (which will get them more DMB attention anyway)
<maco> huats: yes but UCD is one avenue to gaining membership. so if theyre not packaging obviously not DMB-for-MOTU, but DMB-for-UCD might work. or does the DMB ever do membership outside of those groups?
<huats> maco, in my opinion DMB for UCD or Motu or coredev
<huats> and only
<lifeless> AIUI the DMB is only delegated to give out upload-rights of various sorts, which carry membership with them
<maco> lifeless: UCD lacks upload rights but includes membership
<maco> lifeless: and the DMB gives that out
<lifeless> kk, lemme refresh on that
<highvoltage> huats: that's how it is currently
<BlackZ> Well, I can't apply for the DMB (MOTU), why? Because my contributions aren't enough. I have applied for the RMB because I have contributed in many ways of ubuntu (translations, IRC help etc...). I had to appeal to the CC, why? Why I fell that's not right. Becoming a MOTU member isn't so easy and a MOTU can confirm that. However the contributions to the ubuntu development are BTW contributions to the ubuntu community, aren't they?
<huats> highvoltage, I know :)
<lifeless> I really which I was a bit clearer about where I can upload, as MOTU, these days :P
<BlackZ> s/ubuntu community/ubuntu project
<lifeless> maco: righto, so UCD is very much package focused too
<lifeless> maco: I would steer someone primarily doing package work to DMB-*
<lifeless> and someone doing primarily non-package work to RMB
<lifeless> some non package work is technical
<lifeless> and I'd say case-by-case
<MichealH> lifeless agreed
<Pendulum> how often are people given UCD status? because it strikes me that BlackZ didn't know it existed
<lifeless> Pendulum: its very new
<Pendulum> which makes me wonder how often it's mentioned or happens
<lifeless> I don't know the frequency
<maco> Pendulum: its existed for about a year and a bit
<lifeless> (to me thats very new :P)
<huats> lifeless, almost 2 years old....
<maco> i think only like 6 or so people have ever applied
<ajmitch> lifeless: to you, warty is new :P
<maco> its easier to get in than motu
<lifeless> ajmitch: aww, shucks.
<Seveaz> ajmitch: you're still on no-name-yet :P
<huats> I can speak of it, I have been Ubuntu Member, than UCD, than MOTU
<highvoltage> lifeless: I thought you were a core-dev!
<MichealH> I think it should be clarified on the wiki that a project should still be running for it to be classed as a contribution, just my 2 cents
<ajmitch> membership via the DMB is mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
<maco> BlackZ: thing is, the RMBs are mostly prepared to judge contributions that are more people-oriented while the DMB is in a better position for the more code/package related stuff. both are worthy of membership, it's just a difference of who is in a good position to evaluate your contribution
<maco> MichealH: hmmmm?
<MichealH> anyone agree?
<maco> MichealH: there are dead projects that people are still contributing to?
<maco> (do they still count as dead if thats the case?)
<MichealH> ok just a thouht
<lifeless> MichealH: sustained significant contribution implies projects are still live: its not sustained if its not happening anymore
<Seveaz> maco: that would make them undead?
<maco> Seveaz: ZOMBIE PROJECTS!
<lifeless> but if someone did 3 projects, each 6 months long, I'd count them
<MichealH> but it should be clarified on the wiki
<lifeless> as evidence of contribution over time
<lifeless> wouldn't you ?
<MichealH> yes like it's a serious contribution
<lifeless> anyhow, sorry for jumping into your meeting, I should go get some code done.
<lifeless> ciao.
<popey> thanks lifeless
<MichealH> if it lives it is a serious conribution and not one "I am doing this to become a member" thing
<MichealH> And again just my two cents
<MichealH> has the meeting ended?
<Seveaz> I think so, nobody's saying anything :)
<MichealH> I have lots of suggestions for the wiki page outlining the rules. I could clear it up if you want so It constains all the guidelines if nessesary
<Seveaz> MichealH: no, please leave that page alone
<lifeless> MichealH: we depend on the boards to make assessments
<lifeless> MichealH: its not a hard and fast 'do X and become a member.', unless X is 'sustained, significant contribution'
<MichealH> Ok
<popey> i think this discussion has been very valuable
<MichealH> agreed
<MichealH> It has let me have a little natter
<popey> and reinforces my resolve that all the membership boards should have shared communication tools
<MichealH> I am not on the board.I was contributing to the discussion
<Seveaz> popey: yes, where are we on that?
<MichealH> giving my ideas
<popey> Seveaz: good question, will poke again, there's an rt for it
<MichealH> see you tommorow I like the meeting channel. I will see if there is a meeting I can have a rant at tommorow hehe
<MichealH> :)
<popey> :(
<Seveaz> MichealH: you really should stop.
<MichealH> ok
<MichealH>  'night
<legreffier> thank you to the council , thank you for the whole ubuntu thing , see you all soon :D
<HardDisk> quick question, where does one go or ask about to appeal a decision?
<popey> HardDisk: the community council
<popey> !cc
<popey> "Community Council List" <community-council@lists.ubuntu.com>,
<HardDisk> k thanks.
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-02
<rozasirena> Hello
<ev> hi
<mvo> hi
<ev> Keybuk, barry, cjwatson: ping
 * barry waves
<Keybuk> hai
<psurbhi> o/
<ev> ah, I thought you were csurbhi
<ev> apologies
<psurbhi> np :)
<ev> ah, on Canonical
<ev> right
<ev> order is: mvo, surbhi, cjwatson, Keybuk, doko, barry, ev
<ev> (I totally lucked out)
<ev> ready, go!
<mvo> did: language-selector mini-sprint, software-center work, update-manager work
<mvo> will do: merges, work on buy-something spec
<mvo> (done)
<cjwatson> hi
<ev> hi cjwatson
<psurbhi> doing: btrfs support for grub
<psurbhi> created a userspace program that reads a raw btrfs image and finds and reads the btrfs files that its requested to
<psurbhi> this is done for a single device, no subvolume support and no caching
<psurbhi> in the process of porting this to grub.. needs testing on grub
<psurbhi> learning how grub-2 compilation/config process and then plan to test through qemu
<psurbhi> should  be able to show something by next meeting
<psurbhi> atleast the first version
<psurbhi> ..
<cjwatson> (done?)
<psurbhi> sorry, yeah
<cjwatson> :)
<cjwatson> done: lots and lots of grub bug triaging and packaging work, bringing us up to a new snapshot (or will do once the alpha-1 freeze lifts); alpha-1 preparation work; landed grub btrfs-probe branch upstream
<cjwatson> todo: alpha-1; rearrange grub-rescue-pc so that we can ship EFI images in it and use it as a d-i build-dependencies, without having to solve the thornier grub-pc/grub-efi-* coinstallability problem; sprint in C
<cjwatson> ambridge part of next week
<cjwatson> --
<Keybuk> Haven't accomplished anything this week, feeling demotivated :-(  Sorry
<Keybuk> ~
 * mvo hugs Keybuk
<ev> doko?
<cjwatson> my week has been a bit "need more coffee", FWIW
<cjwatson> (the cynical may point out that all my weeks are like that)
<barry> ;}
 * mvo points out that he got some excellent tea from Arne from .tw
<barry> mvo: nice!
<barry> doko going once, doko going twice...
<barry> quickly python; bug 585617 w/submitted patch. python 2.7 stack ppa created; uploaded py 2.7 from debian + python-defaults; tested on maverick vm; many more packages needed; more emails on debian-python. cj 2.0.3 to fix bug 586088; udd packaging refactor found bug 587058; bug triage.  us holiday; sprint arrangements; dkim draft discussion w/scottk.  eot.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585617 in quickly "quickly should support user defined template paths" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585617
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 586088 in computer-janitor (Ubuntu) "cj 2.0.1 in maverick is missing computerjanitord/__init__.py" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586088
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 587058 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "pushing loom to lp, then branching it, loses threads" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/587058
<barry> eot == done :)
 * ScottK looks up.
<cjwatson> ev: your turn?
<barry> ScottK: sorry to wake you up :)
<barry> cjwatson: maybe his net went down?
<Keybuk> let's carry on without him
<cjwatson> yes - can you?  sorry, browser being stupidly slow
<Keybuk> is there anything else?
<Keybuk> we've done the lightning rounds, and there isn't anything else on the agenda afaict
<cjwatson> may not be :) I'm just looking through the iso.qa bugs for alpha-1 to see if there's anything that needs to be farmed out
<doko> pong, sorry for being late
<cjwatson> there are a couple of annoying bugs but I'm not seeing anything that's a true showstopper
<ev> back
<cjwatson> ah good
<ev> (oh sure, we'll give you 50Mb, but good luck using it because our service has an uptime measured in seconds)
<ev> done: lots of Hudson work.  I think I now have a sufficient handle on what needs to be done and how to do it, and have made some headway on that front.  Moving onto installer work and helping xnox with usb-creator stuff for the rest of the week, making sure we're on track with those before I go on vacation for a week (on Monday).
<ev> blocked: installer specification.  Working with Michael Forrest in the office on this.  Will continue to push to have it ready ASAP, but I'm going to start working on the obvious items (debconf passthrough, etc)
<ev> --
<ev> doko: back to you
<barry> ev: i'm interested in hearing more about hudson, when you have some time
<ev> barry: I'm free after the meeting if you want to jump into 1-on-1
 * mvo finds maverick pretty unusuable currently because of the metacity/gtk issues (iirc #584287)
<barry> ev: sounds good
<doko> done: eglibc-2.12 packaging, minor toolchain updates, libstdc++ testing against installed libstdc++, llvm/clang updates. toolchain should be in place now, no more major changes expected
<doko> --
<ev> back to bugs
<ev> I didn't see anything milestoned for alpha 1
<barry> mvo: ouch.  works okay in a command line vm :)
<ev> does anyone have any bugs they'd like to raise?
<mvo> barry: heh :) yeah, I use xfwm4 currently
<ev> metacity> yikes!
<oubiwann> I've got something I'd like to bring up... if now's a good time
<cjwatson> there are a couple of 10.04 hardcodings which are fairly trivial
<cjwatson> encrypted home is apparently broken: bug 588705
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588705 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "maverick alpha1 alternate - impossible creation of encrypted /Home" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588705
<cjwatson> and bug 588696 probably needs some attention (maybe from me)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588696 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "In expert mode install partman assign only 2 GB at / partition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588696
<ev> odd
<ev> I'll take 588705
<ev> any other bugs? (then oubiwann)
 * oubiwann nods
<oubiwann> looks like no more bugs?
<ev> the floor is yours, oubiwann
<oubiwann> cool
<oubiwann> Q-FUNK left a comment on the Foundations 10.10 blog post I did regarding some concerns about the 686 jump
<oubiwann> he's also posted some feedback directly to the blueprint
<oubiwann> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-686-compile/
<oubiwann> some of his concerns:
<oubiwann> "that compiling to anything more recent than 586 essentially makes LTSP unusable since most thin client hardware out there is based on single-chip 586-compatible hardware"
<oubiwann> "while those chipsets (mainly VIA and Geode) are just a few instructions short of 686, they nonetheless are essentially souped-up 586-compatible"
<oubiwann> and
<oubiwann> "basically, it's rather dangerous to push that sudden bump to i686 without considering the compromise of 586 and without putting some sort of safeguard in the preinst script to prevent upgrade on an unsupported arch"
<oubiwann> Q-FUNK: anything else to add?
<Q-FUNK> Debian went through a similar machine bump on SPARC and learned the hard way that the only safe way to prevent upgrades on no longer supported hardware is via a preinst segment. I'd suggest that we use this method as well.
<oubiwann> doko: what are your thoughts on this?
<Q-FUNK> and, above all, I'd suggest reconsidering the jump to 686 down to a more conservative 586.
<oubiwann> doko: ping :-)
<Q-FUNK> as it stands, an awful lot of LTSP users (especially schools) had *chosen* Ubuntu for their classrooms.  a few have already responded to the 686 news by saying goodbye.  this is undesirable publicity.
<doko> oubiwann: the outcome at UDS was, that we did want to switch to i686; I don't mind if we add some code to prevent updates on these processors. not sure, what was done for sparc
<oubiwann> Q-FUNK: that's sad news... are they open to engaging in a community conversation about this?
<cjwatson> I must say I was slightly surprised that we executed the UDS decision so quickly; I had been expecting a mail to u-d-a and a period of consultation.  I probably should have said that in the session
<mvo_> I can add code to update-manager that checks for no-longer supported processors
<cjwatson> (I realise toolchain things always get necessarily pushed early)
<Q-FUNK> they would be open to engaging conversation if the UDS crowd did.  unfortunetely, -m686 compiled libc6 has already been pushed without consulting the community.
<Q-FUNK> from my perspective, I cannot help but side with the users.  many of the clean-up goals for maverick were decided at UDS without consultatino with the community at large.
<ev> In fairness, UDS is not a closed event.  Anyone can participate.
<Q-FUNK> or at least, were implemented without further ado, as in the -m686 libc6 case.
<oubiwann> Q-FUNK: yes, I see your point, and thought I can see why tool-chain changes need to happen early on in the cycle, I'm also surprised at how quickly this got done!
<Q-FUNK> mvo_: not everyone uses update-manager.  some old-timers still use apt-get or aptitude on CLI. :)
<oubiwann> cjohnston: yes, your right -- we should have sent an intent announcement to the list
<cjwatson> "down to a more conservative 586" - remind me, what was the state in lucid?  I thought it was effectively 586
<doko> well, it's not only libc6, but the defaults in the compiler
<Q-FUNK> mvo_: hence the need to implement the check in preinst -- whatever the final decision for an eventual minimum arch bump might be.
<doko> no, lucid is still i486
<barry> oubiwann: is there One True Place where toolchain changes should be sent?
<oubiwann> barry: I don't know, honestly... cjwatson?
<cjwatson> 486, ok.  well, I don't think we'd want to build for 586; IIRC that pessimises for many more modern processors.  it's 486 or 686.
<cjwatson> ubuntu-devel-announce
<barry> cjwatson: thx
<cjwatson> so I'm very concerned about this, but I also know doko has been asking for this for a long time and it seemed at UDS that we must be reaching the point of diminishing returns for the older processors
<Q-FUNK> another issue with -m686 is that even if LTSP users stick with Lucid, in 2 years when LTS+1 comes out, they will come to a dead-end.
<cjwatson> I'm really quite surprised that there are so many old processors still around; we looked at the release dates of cmov-supporting processors and they were, remind me, 15 years ago or something?
<doko> Q-FUNK: well, it's not that quickly, we discussed this at previous UDS'es as well. and we still have the option to build for i586 in a ppa, at least the subset of packages needed fir ltsp. how many are these?
<cjwatson> maybe more like 10
<Q-FUNK> cjwatson: the whole Geode line and many of the VIA processors are effectively souped-up 586 compabitles.
<Q-FUNK> cjwatson: that 686 is already old as a
<Q-FUNK> n architecture is understood.
<Q-FUNK> it's just that a lot of low-power hardware is based on 586-compatible cores.
<doko> Q-FUNK: which ones of the vias are still sold today?
<cjwatson> the first VIA processor to support cmov was definitely quite some time ago; somebody dug up the release date in the UDS session, I think
<cjwatson> I like the possibility of being able to move on with standard Ubuntu, but maintain a 586-compatible version in a PPA, particularly if that could be done automatically
<cjwatson> Q-FUNK, do you think that could be an acceptable option?
<cjwatson> (adding a check to libc6.preinst seems like a no-brainer sane thing to do, BTW)
<mvo_> if we have such a PPA update-manager could add it automatically on upgrade too
<Q-FUNK> cjwatson: I'm not so convinced. already, lubuntu and the whole LXDE environment only makes sense if older hardware is supported.
<mvo_> (plus the libc6.preinst thing for people not using it)
<cjwatson> Lubuntu isn't one of our primary flavours (yet), and it could easily be made to use a PPA build
<doko> Q-FUNK: please could you elaborate which/ho many packages are used by these?
<Q-FUNK> the only half-usable alternative I can think would be to have separate libc6 etc. packages to build an LTSP chroot, but even then that would not solve the problem of a dead-end for everyone who has something based on e.g. the ION603.
<ogra> note that m586 thin clients get more and more rare
<cjwatson> it's not a dead-end if there's an archive available for them to migrate to
<ogra> most common ones you can buy since 1/2 years use atom
<Q-FUNK> ogra: there's already huge deployments of 586 thin clients.  that upcoming products will eventually use LPIA is a separate issue.
<ogra> Q-FUNK, LPIA is dead since ages
<cjwatson> BTW everything I can find from searching suggests that Geode has cmov support?
<doko> Q-FUNK: it's not just libc6, it's *any* package
<cjwatson> thread on fedora-devel-list indicates that it works with gcc's -m686
<xnox> How old hardware are we talking here? Pentium Pro 200MHz processor released in 1995 is i686 processor. Can lubuntu run on that? And it will be 17years old by the next LTS release
<cjwatson> err -march=686 or whatever it is
<doko> xnox: yes, it can
<ogra> xnox, there are some via based SoC thin clients that are 586, they might still be around
<ogra> very old via eipa etc
<xnox> IMHO supporting 17year old CPU's is good enough for ubuntu.
<Q-FUNK> cjwatson: IIRC at least the Geode LX is just one instruction short of supporting 686.  slightly older Geodes are based on slightly older x86 instruction sets, slightly higher than 586, but still not a full 686.
 * xnox goes to read up about VIA
<cjwatson> Q-FUNK: the question is really whether it works with gcc's idea of 686, and the thread on fedora-devel-list indicates that it does
<Q-FUNK> cjwatson: the bug I filed results from an illegal instruction error I got on a Geode, since libc6 2.12~ was pushed.  if -m686 worked, I don't think that I would have encountered that error.
<cjwatson> if there's a slightly different idea in libc, then going back to carrying a libc6-i686 package for that wouldn't be a big deal.  I would like to keep the gcc change if we can though
<cjwatson> Q-FUNK: the question is whether that's in libc or due to gcc optimisation, I think
<cjwatson> is it possible to determine that?
<cjwatson> because that will make a huge difference
<Q-FUNK> cjwatson: good question.
<ev> okay, lets take this to #ubuntu-devel so we can wrap up the foundations team meeting
<cjwatson> if it's due to gcc optimisation, then I think the PPA option is the most likely to be feasible
<ev> right, moving on.  Be a buddy, sponsor a contributor - http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<xnox> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Safe_Cflags/AMD#Geode_LX
<Q-FUNK> cjwatson: IIRC cjb of the OLPC team has investigated this and narrowed it down to one single instruction. apparently a patch exists to emulate the missing instruction, but it was rejected by the LKML.
<xnox> Geode LX 486, Geode GX1 586
<Q-FUNK> xnox: that should be the other way around
<ev> I didn't see any business in the activity reports.
<cjwatson> Q-FUNK: cjb was the person who posted to fedora-devel-list saying that 686 was generally fine for Geode :)
<cjwatson> anyway, #ubuntu-devel please
 * ev bangs gavel
<ev> right
<Q-FUNK> alright -> #ubuntu-devel then. :)
<ev> I take it there's no business from the activity reports then
<ev> good news?
<ev> We've got a +1 from an ftpmaster for renaming usb-creator to startup-disk-creator so it may go into Debian
<ev> great work on that one, xnox
<xnox> k
<ev> any other business?
<ev> please put your activity reports on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0602 if you have not already done so
<ev> don't bother mailing them to me, though if you already have, I'll paste it in
<ev> finally, who wants to run the next meeting (you're not allowed to leave until we have a victim! ;) )
<barry> ev: when you run the shuffle script, who comes up first? :)
<mvo_> *cough*
<ev> mvo_: winner
<ev> right, thanks everyone!
<psurbhi> thanks ev!
<mvo_> thanks ev
<barry> thanks ev
 * psurbhi leaves
 * charlie-tca waves
 * ara waves
 * marjo waves
<hggdh> ~o~
 * marjo likes the rotating chairperson concept
<pedro_> hola!
<sbeattie> marjo: I bet you do! :-)
<sbeattie> Alright, might as well get it going.
<sbeattie> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is sbeattie.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sbeattie> Our agenda, as usual, is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<sbeattie> # review previous action items (all)
<sbeattie> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> # Bug Day status -- pedro_
<sbeattie> # Blueprints update -- all
<sbeattie> # Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
<sbeattie> # Alpha 1 ISO Testing status - ara
<sbeattie> # Firefox 3.6.4 security update testing - ara
<sbeattie> # Selection of new chair - sbeattie
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] review previous action items (all)
<MootBot> New Topic:  review previous action items (all)
<sbeattie> sbeattie: archive SRU reports in the Ubuntu wiki
<sbeattie> This is done: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/SRUReports
<sbeattie> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/SRUReports
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/SRUReports
<sbeattie> hggdh: ask stgraber how often they are having Edubuntu meetings (at 19:00 UTC)
<hggdh> could not get in contact with him, will grab him today. Comments around state meetings are every week
<sbeattie> hggdh: yeah, I noticed they had their meeting last week.
<sbeattie> hggdh: okay, thanks.
<sbeattie> ara: send txwikinger an overview of the ISO tracker work
<ara> sbeattie, done, he is now looking in to it, and will get back to me when he's ready to contribute
<sbeattie> ara: awesome
<sbeattie> ara: send email to awbancroft about Sound Card Compatibility Testing
<sbeattie> is awbancroft available for that agenda item today?
<ara> sbeattie, done, he replied and told me that he wants to join today
<sbeattie> Okay.
<ara> sbeattie, but..he does not seem to be around...
<sbeattie> yeah. :-(
<sbeattie> moving on...
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-05-26):
<sbeattie>  lucid::                                                                                        * 24 new packages in -proposed (abcde, aqualung, brasero, cairo-dock-plug-ins, check, docky, drbd8, epiphany-browser, get-iplayer, gnome-keyring, gnome-panel, gxine, harpia, indicator-application, kdepimlibs, libapache2-mod-fcgid, lxinput, nvidia-graphics-drivers, pcmanfm, software-center, themonospot, tomcat6, update-manager, xsane)
<sbeattie>    * 20 packages pushed to -updates (abiword, cups, deja-dup, evince, exo, gnome-screensaver, gtk+2.0, gtkmm2.4, gvfs, gwibber, kdebase-runtime, librsvg, netbook-launcher, openal-soft, pygtksourceview, python-apt, rhythmbox, simple-scan, totem, vinagre)
<sbeattie>  karmic::
<sbeattie>    * 2 packages pushed to -updates (eclipse, postgresql-8.4)
<sbeattie>  jaunty::
<sbeattie>    * 1 package pushed to -updates (virtualbox-ose)
<sbeattie>  hardy::
<sbeattie>    * no SRU activity
<sbeattie>  dapper::
<sbeattie>    * no SRU activity
<sbeattie> (bah, silly copy & waste)
<sbeattie> Thanks to ahart01, PAUL GIBSON, Otus, enzo, Uqbar, Benedikt Kristinsson, yarly, Pedro Villavicencio (pedro_), Ian Halpern, Guria (Guria), Thorsten Reinbold, nicolagiacobbe, devnulljp, Olivier Tilloy (oSoMoN), C de-Avillez (hggdh), Clovis Peruchi Scotti (cpscotti), Martin Beltov, Tim85, Bo Pearce, wizeman, Pablo Estigarribia and Andrew Straw for testing packages in -proposed.
<sbeattie> As always, we'd appreciate people interested in testing the pending SRUs, see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html for what's currently in the queue.
<sbeattie> Any questions about SRUs this week?
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Bug Day status -- pedro_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status -- pedro_
<pedro_> The past Thursday we had a bug day based on the Epiphany Browser
<pedro_> ~52 bugs were triaged during that day. Thanks a lot to our bug day heroes: evfool, vish, kamusin, micahg, dmitrij.ledkov, skarottes and sinzui  you guys rock!
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100527
<pedro_> the KDE triagers also organized one for KDEPim
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100527/KDE
<sbeattie> Woot, nice work everyone!
<pedro_> it was the same day though so it generated some confusion, I've been talking with txwikinger and i suggested to move the KDE bug day to another day perhaps Monday
<pedro_> so they can have more contributors and we can announce it more nicely ;-)
<sbeattie> Ah, yeah.
<pedro_> more news on that to come, so stay tune for KDE Bug days!
<sbeattie> I didn't happen to see the KDE announcement, did it go out to ubuntu-qa@ and elsewhere?
<pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a bug day based on Compiz, there's plenty of bugs waiting to be triaged,  if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us at #ubuntu-bugs , we'll be glad to help you to start
<pedro_> sbeattie, it went to bugsquad only IIRC
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100603 <- page for the compiz bug day , again if you have some time you're more than welcome to help us tomorrow ;-)
<pedro_> sbeattie, that's all from here unless there's a question
<sbeattie> Thanks, pedro_. Questions, anyone?
<txwikinger> sbeattie: I sent out the announcement through various planets
<txwikinger> and put it into topics in IRC channels
<txwikinger> next time I will also put it on some more MLs
<txwikinger> I am planning to start coming Monday
<sbeattie> txwikinger: okay, that sounds good, thanks for organizing!
<txwikinger> np
<sbeattie> txwikinger: do you know what you'll be focusing the next one on?
<txwikinger> yes kdenetwork package
<txwikinger> i.e. kopete and so on
<sbeattie> sounds good.
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Blueprints update -- all
<sbeattie> Does anyone want to give an updated status on their blueprints?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints update -- all
<marjo> sbeattie: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa.html
<sbeattie> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa.html
<ara> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-mago-daily
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-mago-daily
<ara> This blueprint covers running mago tests on a daily basis
<ara> I was able to set a Hudson local server to run mago tests as "build" tasks
<ara> Now I need to discover how to run those tests in satellites, rather than the hudson server itself
<ara> ev is doing something similar for the installer, and I will coordinate with him to try to avoid duplicating efforts
<sbeattie> ara: interesting. I've seen evan dandrea doing some stuff with hudson, you might ask him for pointers.
<ara> ;-)
<sbeattie> ara: heh.
<ara> if anyone wants to play around with mago and hudson and give us a hand, please, let me know :-)
<ara> help always welcome
<sbeattie> ara: do you have sample configurations available anywhere?
<sbeattie> or, rather, where would we start looking if we wanted to play with it?
<ara> sbeattie, sorry, I have not, I will make a branch under ~apulido/junk and will link it to the blueprint
<sbeattie> ara: that'd be awesome.
<ara> and docs! yes! I could create some documentation as well
<sbeattie> [ACTION] ara to create hudson+mago branch and write some docs.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ara to create hudson+mago branch and write some docs.
<ara> ok, thanks :-)
<sbeattie> anyone else have something to talk about their blueprints?
<hggdh> on my side: I will have to talk with Jos -- too much on my plate
<hggdh> (UEC Testing is *big*)
 * jiboumans perks up
<marjo> hggdh: more like *huge*
<sbeattie> hggdh: okay, I think we can let you, jiboumans, and marjo sort it out.
<hggdh> jiboumans: let's see it
<hggdh> later
<sbeattie> alright, moving on.
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
<sbeattie> Doesn't seem like awbancroft is here?
<sbeattie> If they show up, we can come back to it.
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Alpha 1 ISO Testing status - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 1 ISO Testing status - ara
<sbeattie> ara: how's alpha 1 testing going?
<ara> OK, Alpha 1 testing coverage is looking good for an alpha 1
<ara> [LINK] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<ara> But, as you may see, there are some images that haven't been tested at all
<ara> [LINK] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
<ara> it is always nice to reach 100% IMAGE coverage even in alphas
<ara> it is not that urgent to get 100% testcase coverage
<ara> but we need to make sure that all the images are working correctly (more or less, you know)
<fader_> ara: It looks like some of the flavors are not being tested; will they be tested in later alphas?
<bladernr_> ara: I like the new main view (showing all the variants by default)
<ara> fader_, there were some build problems earlier in the week, I guess the will get fixed later in the cycle
<ara> fader_, are you talking about mythbuntu?
<fader_> Got it... thanks
<ara> or something else?
<fader_> ara: Yes :)
<sbeattie> fader_: yes, mythbuntu had some issues, but are expecting to be back available for alpha 2.
<fader_> sbeattie, ara: cool, thanks.  I didn't even realize that I hadn't gotten the email notification about the mythbuntu builds until just now :/
<sbeattie> and, yes, thanks ara for continuing to improve the iso tracker.
<fader_> +1!
<ara> sbeattie, the all/all was a minor change in the database... nothing too fancy
<sbeattie> ara: regardless, we all appreciate it. :-)
<ara> OK, back to testing, please, if you have some spare time/hw/vm, please, focus on untested images
<ara> and then the rest
 * sbeattie will be able to help out after the meeting ends.
<sbeattie> any more questions about alpha 1 testing?
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Firefox 3.6.4 security update testing - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Firefox 3.6.4 security update testing - ara
<ara> OK, just in case you've missed the news, xulrunner 1.9 is no longer maintained by Mozilla anymore
<ara> so, we are going to put Firefox 3.6.4 not only in Lucid, but also in Hardy, Jaunty and Karmic
<ara> yes, yes, yes, I know, that's a new release in a stable release! crazy security team, sbeattie :P
<sbeattie> ara: crazy upstream, more like; the security team's not happy about it, either.
<ara> so, testing (a lot of) is needed
<ara> sbeattie, :-)
<ara> if you guys want to help testing (a VM is OK) you can follow the steps at:
<ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Firefox3.6.4Upgrade
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Firefox3.6.4Upgrade
<ara> and if you have any questions I am sure chrisccoulson will be happy to answer those
<BlackZ> sure ara, I will test it as well (sorry for the interruption)
<ara> BlackZ, thanks!
<sbeattie> ara: hrm, the tracker at http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all only lists the hardy build; is jaunty and lucid coming?
<ara> jaunty and karmic, not lucid
<sbeattie> (or is that a question for chriscoulson?)
<ara> yes, they will come when chrisccoulson has the packages ready in his ppa
<sbeattie> ah, okay.
<ara> the Mozilla team pushed back the release to June 7th IIRC, so we have a bit more time
<sbeattie> Okay, thanks.
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Next meeting and selection of new chair - sbeattie
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting and selection of new chair - sbeattie
<sbeattie> Do we have a victim, erm, a volunteer willing to chair the next meeting?
 * sbeattie listens to the crickets....
<sbeattie> fader_, pedro_, hggdh: any of you want to take it?
<fader_> sbeattie: "want" is such a strong word... I'll take it though :)
<sbeattie> fader_: thanks, appreciated.
<sbeattie> (perhaps after everyone does a round of it, we should just go in a defined order)
<sbeattie> with the next meeting, should we try to do the shifted meeting at 19:00 UTC?
<ara> sbeattie, before knowing if we have room for it?
<fader_> Doesn't that still conflict with the edubuntu meeting?
<sbeattie> Given that edubuntu does seem to hold weekly meetings at that time, we'd have to hold it in #ubuntu-quality
<ara> sbeattie, OK, I can take the action of talking with the IRC Council to see the steps on having a meeting bot there
<sbeattie> ara or anyone else: do you have any idea how long that will take to go through?
<ara> sbeattie, no idea
<sbeattie> [ACTION] ara to talkwith the IRC Council to find out the stpes for setting up a meeting bot in #ubuntu-quality
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ara to talkwith the IRC Council to find out the stpes for setting up a meeting bot in #ubuntu-quality
<sbeattie> I don't have a strong opinion on whether we should start with the altered time next; fader_, since you're the next meeting chair I'll leave it up to you.
<sbeattie> (but we need a decision one way or the other)
<fader_> sbeattie: My vote would be to do it at the new time since ara is going through the effort of getting us a bot
<sbeattie> fader_: okay, then let's plan on that. Next week's meeting will be at 19:00 UTC, wednesday, June 8th, in #ubuntu-quality.
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<sbeattie> Did awbancroft show up? Doesn't seem like it...
<sbeattie> Okay, thanks everyone!
<sbeattie> #endmeeting.
<fader_> Thanks all
<sbeattie> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:50.
<ara> cheers
<marjo> thanks all!
<marjo> sbeattie: thx for chairing
<bittin> what meeting was that?
<sbeattie> bittin: QA team meeting
<hggdh> bittin: QA
<bittin> ah
<bittin> never mind then iam waiting for the Edubuntu one
<bittin> and the Fridge Calender is not using Swedish timezone :(
<bittin> so got confused
<xnox> bittin, if you subscribe to fridge in google calendar you can view it in your local timezone =)
<bittin> xnox: :o i might do that then
<bittin> xnox: thanks for the info :)
<highvoltage> Right, who's here for the Edubuntu weekly meeting?
<bittin> me
<highvoltage> hey bittin
<bittin> hi
<alkisg> Hi people
<highvoltage> not too much on the agenda tonight, I don't have too many updates to be honest, I haven't exactly had the best time-management the last week and tumbled a bit
<highvoltage> the first alpha release is scheduled for tomorrow
 * bencrisford wanders in
<highvoltage> ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule )
<highvoltage> stgraber: can we test todays iso images for the alpha?
<highvoltage> none are listed on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all currently
<highvoltage> essentially there shouldn't be a lot to test that isn't in Ubuntu
<highvoltage> but the idea is that if there's any edubuntu-specific problems we can sort it out early
<highvoltage> bencrisford: how are things going with the advocacy team, have you had any time to spend on that again?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: dont think there is anything new
<bencrisford> I had some thoughts about the structure of the branch
<highvoltage> I guess we also really need our new website for some of the things we've discussed before
<highvoltage> I e-mailed hedgemage this morning and asked if she could give me an update.
<highvoltage> I'm tempted to just go ahead and put a new theme on our old site and update some content in the meantime that urgently needs updating
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> sorry for being a bit late
<highvoltage> glad you could make it :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: for alpha, you can poke sladen about it (I can add them too if necessary)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'll poke sladen
<dhillon-v10_> hi to all :) sorry guys I am a little late
<bittin> hello
<stgraber> highvoltage: slangasek I mean ;)
<highvoltage> hi dhillon-v10, are you able to give us some update on the new site?
<stgraber> highvoltage: tab-complete FAIL :)
<bencrisford> haha, poor sladen :P
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: hiiiiiii :) long time so see how's it going, well I guess now isn't the time to ask that, yeah I pinged hedgemage a while ago but she didn't reply back
<dhillon-v10_> stgraber: hi :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: well it's good to have you back again, done with all the exams?
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah finally :) it was a pain but now i am done
<dhillon-v10_> oh and everyone did an awesome job in the last cycle :D
<highvoltage> excellent, glad to hear that
<highvoltage> *nod*
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: so yeah until the website work is fixed, anything else for me like packages and so on?
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I said earlier that I poked hedgemage by e-mail this morning, so hopefully I'll hear from her this week still
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: oh yes, certainly.
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: alright then, yeah she's the one hosting it so I don't have much control over the site, besides modifying stuff on it
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: if you want you could work on the edubuntu-artwork split-up so long? currently edubuntu-artwork is too big and contains the artwork, settings, and the live cd environment stuff.
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: sure, what exactly do i need to do?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: is there a todo page or something for packaging?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: currently we have those 3 blueprint pages that basically summarizes what needs to be done
<bencrisford> highvoltage: the ones listed on wiki.u.c/Edubuntu/evel/RoadMap
<bencrisford> ?
<highvoltage> yes, the ones on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<bencrisford> okey doke
<highvoltage> we could spend some time tomorrow splitting them up in to-do items, and then people could volunteer for some items if they like?
 * bencrisford is free all day tommorrow :D
<bencrisford> hi Lns :)
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: sure that works :)
<dhillon-v10_> Lns: hi :)
<Lns> hi..wow we're still in meeting ?: )
<Lns> i thought i missed it!
<highvoltage> great, I'll split it up and send a message to the list so that everyone can take a look and sign up for something
<bencrisford> awesome :)
<bittin> Lns: yea its Edubuntu meeting
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: there's one thing I have had in my mind for quiet some time now its regarding the documentation, can you remind me to talk about that near the end of the meeting
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: you can go for it now, I don't have much else :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I have lots of mixed feelings about documentation so some fresh input there would be good
<dhillon-v10_> alright people so as we write docs. we want users to benifit from them, most people instead of using docs. use google instead, i want to have an online system, or something rather put into  yelp where people can send back reviews about the docs. now we will use google sidewiki spam algorithm to get rid of the spam and focus really on the issue where we know what the users really want
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to yelp, is it hard to do mark-up for it? are there tools that for example, can export wiki pages to yelp pages?
<dhillon-v10_> and not only that, we can also use a google custom search to see the websites that people most often go to to get this information, I am pretty sure there are some and then use info. from those sites to automatically update the docs. this right here is the key puch of the idea but is also tricky to implement :)
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: I wrote a major part of docs. in kubuntu thanks to Richard in the last cycle, so I can take care of exporting stuff :)
 * bencrisford loves docbook markup :)
<dhillon-v10_> the best part would be the automatic updates that we can send out, this would involve some changes to yelp but i am pretty sure if we can work out a good plan, Shaun from gnome and others would like it as well
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: indeed, it's also great for people that might not have connectivity
<dhillon-v10_> and then we would almost never have to take care of updating the docs. because we would just need to pull the relavent information from the sites and then send it out like a sru but only for docs.
<dhillon-v10_> so do you guys think that this is something that can be done? if so then I can start formally building up a blueprint and all that good stuff :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I think your job should rather be around documentation for now rather than packaging :)
<highvoltage> +1 from me!
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: :) I can manage some packaging
<bencrisford> +1
<bencrisford> :)
<dhillon-v10_> +1
<dhillon-v10_> lolol
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> at the beginning stage of that we should probably have a session to plan out what needs to be documented
<highvoltage> sbalneav has ltsp covered quite well, so at least there's not a lot to write there
<highvoltage> but there's quite a bit we have to do that's edubuntu-specific
<highvoltage> we had a bit of confusion with live ltsp around release time, some people were a bit uncertain about some things and we lack decent documentation on it
<bencrisford> the System> About Edubuntu stuff needs updating
<bencrisford> it has the old artwork
<bencrisford> and if you go into the source and look at the translations
<highvoltage> would be *great* if we could have help built-in to the system for that
<bencrisford> they still talk about hardy or something, iirc
<highvoltage> bencrisford: good catch, is there a bug open for that?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: not sure, i'll check
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: alright will look into that as well :)
<bencrisford> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/edubuntu-docs
<bencrisford> that the right place to be looking?
<dhillon-v10_> bencrisford: no bugs there :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: it could be in edubuntu-artwork too if it's filed
<bencrisford> theres a couple if you drop the maverick bit :)
<highvoltage> (since that's the package it's ine )
<bencrisford> highvoltage: for the artwork bug yeah :), but there is a load of problems in the translations of aboyt-edubuntu
<bencrisford> pretty much all the translations still talk about hardy
<bencrisford> it seems that way in the source anyway :)
<bencrisford> might not be hardy :( I cant remember
<highvoltage> it's not impossible
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah if something like what I have in mind can be implemented, we can take over the world :) but seriously though that would be pretty awesome
<bencrisford> bug 451569
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451569 in Ubuntu Translations "Strings in Karmic still refer to Jaunty" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451569
<dhillon-v10_> bencrisford: the importance of that needs to change :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: we currently have no one looking at documentation, and it's a bit of a sore point, and there's a lot of work that has been done in the past (it's on the wiki currently) that is mostly unused and not very googlable
<highvoltage> would be nice to have some direction again and have someone who can care about it
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah well, now that I have time we can change that around :)
<highvoltage> personally I'd love to but just don't have the time to do it properly
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: awesome :)
<bencrisford> doesnt seem to be a bug about the outdated logo in either -artwork or -docs
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: np :) yeah I have to take some responsibility now that I am an edubuntu developer
<bencrisford> i'll report one :D
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: if you could help with those translation issues too that would be great
<highvoltage> we shipped our ubiquity slideshow in english-only because we had some issues that we couldn't fix fast enough before release
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: I will try but I don't know how that would work out, i only know 3 languages and I'll translate whatever I can in time
<highvoltage> it would be really nice if we could get that translatable on LP and then get the translations in
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: ahh that I can do :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I didn't mean translating itself as the technical stuff in making it work :)
<highvoltage> bittin: btw, is this the first Edubuntu meeting you're attending?
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah, got it :) its been an issue on the launchpad dev. team as well to get a better way of translating things around :)
<bencrisford> bug 588890 - should I add an also affects for -artwork?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 588890 in edubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Old artwork used in "About Edubuntu" page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/588890
<highvoltage> bencrisford: it's probably fine with edubuntu-docs
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ok, I guess realistically its gonna be someone in this meeting fixing it anyway :P so it doesnt really matter
<dhillon-v10_> bencrisford: thanks :) I will write up a blueprint and then attach to that bug
<bencrisford> ok
 * highvoltage is catching up on taking notes
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage, bencrisford: okay so for now I'll be working on docs. and merge some packages over to ubuntu then :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: ok, but you'll start with the blueprint right?
<highvoltage> (not that I want to add too much beaurocracy, etc, etc)
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yes today, after nap-time :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: heh, great
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: which is around 4 pm
<highvoltage> if we can get the technical stuff that we planned right, get the website flowing again, have great built-in documentation available through yelp, get our teacher community well-established through the advocacy/ubuntu-education project then maverick is really going to be an exceptional release
<highvoltage> imo the groundwork is already quite good and we don't really have much in the sense of blockers
<highvoltage> (although I'll admit I'm slightly scared of the ubiquity changes we planned)
<highvoltage> anything else before we adjourn?
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: true, but that still is a lot to get through we'll have to work faster :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: yep, I think in terms of documentation we'll probabably not have something extermely comprehensive yet for maverick, but if we can cover some basics that we get lots of questions and feedback about then that would already be a huge win!
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: I'll try me best this time :) I really want to have maverick to be as Mark planned: perfect :)
<dhillon-v10_> alright then time to head to bed, later people :D
<bencrisford> dhillon-v10_: later ;)
<alkisg> bb
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I think in your blueprint it might be a good idea to list some phases, plans it over 2 releases
<highvoltage> but that's just details :)
<highvoltage> have a nice nap dhillon-v10_
<dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: thanks :)
<dhillon-v10_> lol
<highvoltage> and thanks Lns, stgraber, bencrisford, alkisg and bittin for attending!
<highvoltage> meeting adjourned! *GONG*
<bittin> no problem :p
<bittin> even if i diden't say that much
<bencrisford> bittin: :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-03
<ir0n0xid3> testing
<djsiegel1> Hello, all.
<djsiegel1> mpt is coming, his computer had to be restarted.
<aday_> djsiegel1: hi :)
<djsiegel1> Who's here for the ayatana-ux meeting?
 * mgunes raises hand
<aday_> me
<djsiegel1> me
<aday_> vish: ping!
<mpt> Good morning sports fans
 * vish just got back , will catch up with scrollback
<aday_> mpt: morning
<mpt> Hello aday_, mgunes, vish
<mpt> and djsiegel1
<mgunes> hi mpt, and all
<mpt> So, a small short meeting today
<mpt> ivanka apologizes that she's not here today, her brain is full
<mpt> However, she did ask me to announce that the Launchpad team now have it on their roadmap to add the "UX advocate" field to Launchpad projects.
<djsiegel1> Woo!
<mpt> Once that's done, project maintainers will be able to specify in LP who their UX advocate is.
 * mgunes apologizes for not being active in the team so far; his hands are full with work for the next two weeks, after which he hopes to get up to speed
<mpt> And a few of us in Canonical have just been discussing how to publicize the idea.
<aday_> the guadec bof of ux advocates has been timetabled: http://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/2010/BOFs/UserExperienceAdvocates
<mpt> Sweet, thanks aday_
<mpt> We want this to be something like the papercuts project -- something that open-source projects can adopt even if they have nothing to do with Ubuntu
<mgunes> that's nice to hear. would be good to have a "circled ?" icon with a tooltip/link on what "UX" is near the UX Advocate field.
 * mpt reads that guadec page
<mgunes> aday_, how does remote participation work in GUADEC? Does it at all?
<aday_> the main thing i want to do in that bof is get maintainers involved in the discussion
<aday_> mgunes: i don't think we've had that in the past, unfortunately
<mpt> Maybe we should invite Andreas Nilsson to join this team
<aday_> mpt: good idea
<mpt> Any objections? :-)
<mgunes> of course not :)
<mpt> ok, I'll mail him after the meeting
<mpt> next
<mpt> There's one design-related session from UDS that we didn't get time to discuss last week
<mpt> And that was the idea of tagging usability-related bug reports in the bug tracker, with tags based on usability principles
<mpt> For those of you who weren't at the session, this is based on something Mozilla is trying
<mpt> You can read about it more here: http://uxmag.com/strategy/quantifying-usability
<nigelbabu> @now
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: June 03 2010, 12:20:53
<mpt> I don't remember the details of that UDS session, so I'll leave that until ivanka has time to explain it, maybe next week.
<mpt> Is there anything else anyone would like to raise this week?
<vish> wooho , UX advocate! +1 for andreasn ;)
<mgunes> I'm wondering if any more of the UX-related sessions at UDS were videotaped
<mgunes> (on top of those already available at video.ubuntu.com)
<mpt> I didn't know (or had forgotten) that video.ubuntu.com exists
<mpt> so I can't help you there, sorry
<mpt> The Gobby documents probably still exist.
<mgunes> mpt, check out the lovely video of Bruno Maag where he introduces the Ubuntu font, and the camera never points to the projection for 40+ minutes :)
<vish> mgunes: http://ubuntudevelopers.blip.tv/file/3621745/, is for the fonts
<vish> and there are a few other session that were recorded
<mgunes> ah, I guess that's the one
<vish> mgunes: not sure is video.ubuntu.com still exits , but blip tv is what is being used now
<mgunes> vish, will check it out too, thanks
<vish> mgunes: the slides >  http://www.daltonmaag.com/docs/FontDevelopment.pdf
<vish> from Bruno's session^
<mgunes> vish, I've gone through them; thanks
<mpt> Ok, so nothing else to discuss today, let's end it there
<mpt> though you're welcome to keep chatting :-)
<mpt> Thanks everyone
<vish> mgunes: as for the focus not bein at the screen , it kinda not possible unless we have dedicated cameramen ;)  those were just stationary cams on a stand :)
<vish> mpt: thanks!
<aday_> cheers all
<mgunes> vish, I know; I can't blame anyone for not wanting to keep panning a camera while Mr. Maag is presenting..
<mgunes> thanks everyone!
<wers> hmm
<wers> helloo
<wers> mpt, is it done?
<mpt> wers, yes, short meeting today
<wers> ooh ok
<wers> sorry was stuck in traffic
<mpt> Sorry you missed it, wers-dinner, I'm posting out meeting notes now
<mpt> mgunes, glad you made it. Maybe next week we could discuss how we can get UX ideas to/from the Ubuntu Forums?
<mgunes> mpt, certainly. I'll actually post about that to the list, and we can expand the discussion further in the meeting.
<mpt> cool, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-04
<randa_> vish: ping
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-06-06
<netshine> hey all ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-30
<czajkowski> ogra_: ping
<ogra_> czajkowski, yes ?
<czajkowski> ogra_: mind if I pm you please ?
<UndiFineD> o/
<DarkwingDuck> o/
<UndiFineD> who else is here ?
<DarkwingDuck> I'm observing
<UndiFineD> well, it looks like noone is going to come
<DarkwingDuck> :(
<UndiFineD> so much for regular meetings
<DarkwingDuck> It'll
<DarkwingDuck> It'll grow.
<DarkwingDuck> Keep at it.
<UndiFineD> I tend to
 * DarkwingDuck nods
<DarkwingDuck> Did you run a doodle poll?
<UndiFineD> yes we did
<DarkwingDuck> Buggers
<czajkowski> DarkwingDuck: what meeting was it
<DarkwingDuck> czajkowski: It was going to be a UBT Wiki meeting
<czajkowski> a meeting over a wiki ?
<UndiFineD> h.u.c/community
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-31
<Quintasan> Riddell: ping, urgently important stuff
<zul> hi
<nijaba> o/
<jamespage> o/
<sconklin> \o
<hallyn_> \o
<robbiew> o/
<jamespage> zul: are you driving this week?
<zul> i dunno am i?
<jamespage> hmmm - I think so looking at the wiki
<zul> i suppose i am
<zul> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is zul.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<zul> hi welcome to the ubuntu server team meeting lets get started
<zul> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> so everybody had to to spec peer reviews which is assume was done
<zul> anything to bring up wrt it
<zul> ...
<zul> if not moving on
<zul> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<zul> so we should be knee deep in oneiric is there anything you want to mention robbiew
<robbiew> hmm
<robbiew> will be going through tagging alpha-2 milestone stuff
<robbiew> if I tag something
<robbiew> and it's insane to deliver by alpha-2
<robbiew> let me know ;)
<robbiew> that's all I got
<zul> cool also should be doing merges and syncs as well..
<zul> anyone else
<zul> ...
<zul> ok then moving on
<zul> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> any conferences coming up?
<zul> ok moving on
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> hggdh: around?
<zul> well come back to him
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<zul> hi smb anything to report about 3.0? ;)
<smb> Already. :)
<zul> yeah its going to be a quick meeting
<smb> Well, apw is on a good way to make it compile
<hallyn_> is'nt "3.0" a development release?   (/me cracks himself up)
<smb> and package
<smb> A completely sane decision based on "voices"
<smb> anyway. Nothing big from here
<zul> cool
<zul> does anyone have any questions for smb?
<zul> ...
<smb> ..
<smb> .
<zul> no? moving on..
<zul> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<zul> hi kim0
<zul> do you have an update for us
<zul> ...
<zul> if not moving on
<zul> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<zul> anyone have anything to get off their chest?
<zul> or is everyone still asleep?
<hallyn_> zzzzz
 * jamespage yawns
 * smb blinks
<zul> right...
<RoAkSoAx> zzzzzzzzzz
<zul> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<zul> so next week same time...yadda yadda
 * hallyn_ hits snooze and rolls over
<zul> thanks for coming
<zul> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:15.
<RoAkSoAx> hallyn_: +1
<hallyn_> thanks zul :)
<RoAkSoAx> (that was fast btw :) )
<zul> well if no one says anything then its going to be a fast meeting
<hggdh> zul: sorry, on a teleconference now
<zul> hggdh:  no worries meeting is over
<JFo> o/
<sconklin> \o/
<ppisati> o/
<herton> \o
<sforshee> o/
<JFo> \0/
<smb> \o
<highvoltage> o/
<apw> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Kernel news/SRU: nothing exciting - a small fix to support beagle xm rev c, some work for lxc support in omap4, while a boatload of CVEs fix for imx51/mvl-dove/ti-omap4 is approaching.
<ppisati> About the O cycle: TI told us they are going to spend a lot of resources/efforts to make 2.6.39 tightly/well integrated with their BSP AKA we get 2.6.39 in oneiric/ti-omap4. No ETA yet, but same path as before TI -> Linaro LT -> Ubuntu.
<ppisati> Unsupported news: davidm is pushing Toshiba ac100 (tegra2) around, and ogra has packaged a kernel for it - guess we are going to experimentally support tegra in the not-so-distant future.
<ppisati> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (3 bugs, 21 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Release Milestoned Bugs (17 across all packages (down 7)) ====
<JFo>  * 0 linux kernel bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (no change)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (502 across all packages (up 331)) ====
<JFo>  * 20 linux kernel bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 5 linux-ti-omap4 bugs (down 1)
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 2 blueprints (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Natty Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 27 Linux Bugs (down 1)
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 5 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 17 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:90 (no change) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-bug-handling
<JFo>  * All alpha 1 items are still on track
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> apw, jjohansen, lag, manjo, mpoirier, ralveti, rtg: you have Alpha-1 work items to review your set of Ubuntu patches.  Please take a moment to review or postpone till Alpha-2. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelOneiricUbuntuDeltaReview for your specific set of patches.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<smb> none of those started so far
<smb> Though 3.0 has the last part for Xen
<smb> ,,
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Over the weekend we uploaded the 2.6.39-3.10 kernel which is based on upstream v2.6.39 final.  I intend to keep us on v2.6.39 final for our Alpha-1 release on Thurs June 2.  Even bigger news for those who haven't heard is that Linus released v3.0-rc1!  This does introduce a bit of an issue for our scripts, but we're actively working to deal with the fallout and get our versioning in shape.  This also means we'll target One
<ogasawara> iric to release with a v3.0 kernel rather than v2.6.40.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || We are beginning preparation for another kernel release cycle, but were delayed by problems discovered
<sconklin> || when running generic kernels in xen dom0 in Lucid and Maverick, and by a potential USB 3.0 problem in
<sconklin> || Natty. Despite a request to not publish the known-bad Lucid amd Maverickkernels, Lucid kernels
<sconklin> || were published and are currently in the field. It was only discovered this morning that the kernels
<sconklin> || had been published, due to the three day weekend in the U.S. and it appears to have been due to
<sconklin> || miscommunication.
<sconklin> || The next update for Lucid kernels should fix this problem, but these kernels (which had
<sconklin> || been prepared) must now be respun because the one in proposed was released. The previous kernel
<sconklin> || cycle is still incomplete due to problems verifying whether an issue seen on Natty USB3.0 really exists.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || Today the stable kernel team will remove all three USB 3.0 patches which were applied during the last
<sconklin> || cycle to Natty, and begin th enext cycle. If we can get a response from the original reporter of the issue,
<sconklin> || we will attempt to determine which change caused his problem, if any.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || On a more positive note, Support for Dapper expires tomorrow.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.35.28.21         || 2.6.35.29.22         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.20         || 2.6.35-29.21         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.35.28.36         || 2.6.35.29.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.50         || 2.6.35-29.51         ||   11 ||        9 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || natty    linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    ||                      || 2.6.38-9.3           ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || 2.6.38.1209.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                      || 2.6.38.9.23          ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             ||                      || 2.6.38-9.43          ||    9 ||        9 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  12 Oneiric Bugs (up 3)
<JFo>  1219 Natty Bugs (up 12)
<JFo>  1126 Maverick Bugs (down 16)
<JFo>  1029 Lucid Bugs (no change)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 2 natty bug (up 1)
<JFo>   * 42 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 75 lucid bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 456 natty bugs (down 2)
<JFo>   * 244 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 222 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 1 natty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:08.
<JFo> thanks bjf :)
<smb> swift as always
 * ppisati goes to visit a new flat...
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-01
<Daviey> Is there a UDD meeting now?
<jelmer> Daviey: I think so (according to my calendar), but I haven't seen Barry yet
<jelmer> Daviey: oh, thanks for that Sync ACK earlier :)
<Daviey> jelmer: np :)
<jelmer> hi Barry
<barry> hi jelmer
<barry> sorry about getting here late.  only 2 more weeks of school left :)
<barry> let me bring up the agenda and then we'll start
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 06:09. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hello and welcome to this week's ubuntu distributed development steering meeting.  who's here today?
 * jelmer waves
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110601
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110601
<barry> no poolie?
<jelmer> I just pinged in #bzr
<barry> thanks!
<barry> hi jam
<james_w> yo
<jam> hi barry. Why did I think this was the "not-a-meeting" week?
<barry> ;)
<jam> I guess because I'm crazy
<jam> I see it on the calendar
<barry> let's give poolie another minute or so
<jam> I don't think he realized, he didn't mention it in our standup this morning
<jam> I wouldn't wait too long
<barry> okay then
<barry> [TOPIC]
<MootBot> New Topic:
<barry>  * Action items
<barry>  
<barry>    * jelmer to study the feasibility of merge helper ([[https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb/+bug/608675|bug 608675]]) as an intermediate step for quilt support
<barry>  
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 608675 in bzr-builddeb "merge-package should have support for manipulating quilt v3 patch stacks" [High,In progress]
<jelmer> I've been sprinting and holiday'ing since our last meeting so I haven't had much time to look at that yet
<barry> okay, no worries, we'll just leave it on for next time
<barry>    * poolie to send condensed summary of uds sessions
<barry>  
<barry> does anybody know, was this done?
<jam> barry: I assume he would send it to the udd list, and I haven't seen anything from him since April
<jam> so I'm guessing not
<barry> yep, i just looked at gmane and didn't see anything.  okay, continuing
<barry>    * Riddell to give summary of current import failures with rough HARD/NOTHARD classification, and failure numbers
<barry>  
<barry> p-i.u.c looks flat.  i guess this is still todo.
<barry>    * jelmer to look into [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/609187|bug 609187]] (warn when package import is out of date)
<barry>  
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 609187 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "users are not warned when branching ubuntu:foo (or lp:ubuntu/foo) and the package import of foo is out of date" [High,Triaged]
<barry> jelmer: continue for next time?
<jelmer> barry: yeah
<barry> k
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Package importer progress
<barry>  
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Package importer progress
<jam> jelmer: if you're interested, I'd be happy to pair with you on some of those
<jelmer> jam: me too, perhaps next week some time ?
<barry> jam, jelmer awesome
<Riddell> hi
<barry> any status on the package importer?  did i see some traffic on that the last couple of days?
<barry> Riddell: hi
<Riddell> on the classification I discussed it with maxb who said that any one error would have several reasons for failure
<Riddell> and by the time you diagnose the failure enough to classify it you're most of the way to fixing it any way
<jam> jelmer: sure
<jam> I'm off the rest of this one :)
<maxb> Indeed - I propose that attempting an overall classification of all current failures is less valuable that iterating a "pick one; fix" approach
<maxb> s/that/than/
<barry> Riddell: question: once you've done that for one bug in a class, does that help with the other similar failures?
<maxb> When I say "pick one", I mean one distinct failure cause, rather than one single package
<barry> maxb: hi.
<jam> maxb: one of my concerns is this failure: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/5cabf40249181425fdb66e301d75f02b.html
<Riddell> barry: depending on the bug you can do a mass retry for all the ones with that error, then you just have to see which ones it fixes and which are caused by something else
<jam> it feels like you have to check each package manually
<jam> with 100 failures, that's a lot of overhead.
<jam> any ideas on it?
<maxb> We looked a little at that one at the sprint, and established that there are at least two sub-classes to that traceback
<maxb> One involves the revision ids having identical timestamps, one not.
<barry> maxb, Riddell okay.  it sounds like the effort is better spent on just fixing the problems.  i can take this one off the todo list.
<maxb> I got as far as rerunning the importer for a subset of those packages locally, but did not return to analyze the results yet
<barry> jam, jelmer if i can put in a plug for increasing the priority of 609187 then :).  having that warning will i think at least give people a better feeling that they won't be wasting their time, and will simplify the docs.
<jelmer> barry: ok
<barry> any other thoughts on the package importer?
<jam> barry: was "run 'bzr is-package-current'" a sufficient first pass at that?
<jam> I think there is already code for that, just waiting on making it faster.
<barry> jam: is that a real command?
<maxb> I have added "UDD failure ratchet: 487" to the topic of #bzr, to 1) make the descending count more visible, and 2) ensure it stays descending
<jam> barry: I don't know the command name. I do know someone wrote a plugin that interfaces with launchpadlib
<barry> jam: i must have missed it
<maxb> In doing so, I have realized that it would be useful for the package-import status page to separately count permanent and will-be-retried failures
<maxb> For example, it's up to 522 right now, but many of those appear to be transient errors
<barry> maxb: that would be nice to know
<barry> maxb: what's the interval for auto-retries?
<jam> barry: maybe it was just discussed in the bzr sprint?
<jam> I remember discussing it
<maxb> barry: Looks to be 3 hours currently - presumably to bridge a typical Launchpad downtime
<barry> jam: on the face of it, some easy to spell check command would be a decent first shot
<barry> maxb: ack, thanks
<barry> okay, moving on...
<barry> [TOPIC] Bugs of interest:
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs of interest:
<barry> http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<maxb> <barry> p-i.u.c looks flat. <--- but remember the scale is logarithmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~mbp/kanban/canonical-bazaar-kanban.html
<barry> maxb: right, thanks for the reminder!
<vila> sorry for the late arrival, lunch time
<barry> vila: hi
<barry> wow.  lots of bugs in needs release.  do you know which (if any) are being back ported to stable releases and which are for the next release?
<jam> barry: http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures.max%28800%29.min%28400%29
<jam> [link] http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures.max%28800%29.min%28400%29
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://webnumbr.com/ubuntu-package-import-failures.max%28800%29.min%28400%29
<jam> barry: bzr bugs generally go straight to released. plugin bugs go into needs-release
<barry> jam: ah, i didn't know that!
<jam> I think we just need to poke jelmer
<jelmer> au!
<jam> he did all that wonderful bug fixing, just needs to release it to the public
<barry> c'mon jelmer, bask in the glory!
<jelmer> yeah, I need to do a few more releases
<barry> any other thoughts on bugs?
<barry> [TOPIC]  * Alternate meeting times?
<MootBot> New Topic:   * Alternate meeting times?
<barry> so, 1100utc is doable for me, but it's way to early for slangasek.  i fear there's no way to have one single time that works for au, us-east, us-west, and euro.  otoh, it's hard enough to remember to meet at the same time (for me too!) so alternating will only make it worse.  i'm open to any thoughts.  what are your preferences?
<jam> I prefer a same-time meeting
<jam> but right now that is in my favor...
<barry> jam: and 2100utc, or thereabouts is still bad for you, right?
<vila> same here, Wednesday is less practical family wise though (shudder, one more constraint type ;-/)
<jelmer> 1100utc works well for me too, as well as in the .au morning
<barry> i talked briefly w/slangasek and he's okay if we keep a time more convenient to the bzr center of mass, so i guess for now we'll just keep it at 1100utc
<jam> barry: 2100 is about 11pm. So it could work but not something I can do regularly
<barry> jam: yep, and i think moving it an hour or so earlier starts to make it infeasible for pooie
<barry> er, poolie
<barry> okay, 1100utc it is
<barry> [TOPIC] Any other business?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
<barry> nothing really on my plate, anything else from y'all?
<vila> You covered max's wonders earlier ?
<barry> vila: ?
<vila> diagnosis on import failures, bugs with recipes to fix, etc
<barry> vila: yep
<vila> ok
<barry> okay then, i think we're done.
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 06:50.
<barry> thanks everybody
<jelmer> thanks barry
 * slangasek waves
<mvo> hello
 * stgraber waves
<jhunt> o/
<psurbhi> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<slangasek> let's dive right in :)
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko csurbhi stgraber jhunt mvo ev vorlon bdmurray)
<slangasek> mvo cjwatson stgraber doko csurbhi barry bdmurray ev vorlon jhunt
<slangasek> mvo: how's it goin'/
<mvo> jo
<mvo> software-center: work on qml branch (basic UI works and animations etc are really cool and simple to do), work on a bunch of branch merges (backend refactor, weblive-x2go, lp790450-for-4.0, ...), add support for icon-download-url from s-c-agent, SRU for 4.0.3 that includes propoer pagination support
<mvo> gdebi: work on gtk3 version and upload to oneiric
<mvo> apt: fix wrong test for invlaid packages files
<mvo> update-manager: make releasenotes display between check-release-update-gtk and update-manager consitent, port to oneiric vte, add profiles for natty->oneiric automatic testing
<mvo> sponsor indicator-multiload
<mvo> review/merge lp:~j-johan-edwards/archive-crawler/use-aptfile for improve archive-crasler (j-johan-edwards rocks!)
<mvo> (done)
<stgraber> oh right, no cjwatson today :)
<stgraber> Looked at isc-dhcp-client-udeb to make sure it works for both DHCPv4 and DHCPv6.
<stgraber> Got Software Center to play nicely with both x2go and qtnx, including proper status report and dealing with exceptions.
<stgraber> Started looking at what would be needed to get a working Edubuntu by tomorrow (hopefully, not much)
<stgraber> Played with xpra as a potential way of filtering/isolating X apps, to be used in Arkose for desktop app containing.
<stgraber> Did a few merges (more to come)
<stgraber> Looked at the new sssd and got a community member to take care of getting the missing build-dep in Ubuntu (and to Debian) so hopefully I should be able to upload the latest release to Ubuntu quite soon, fixing bug 757499 and bug 746981.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 757499 in sssd (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu should update to SSSD 1.5.x (LTM release)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746981 in sssd (Ubuntu) "sssd fails to find memberof.so" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746981
<stgraber> Today I'm planning on fixing Edubuntu so we can get an alpha-1.
<mvo> x2goooooo \o/
<stgraber> Rest of the week will likely be spent working on Arkose. Porting it to pygi, lxc and get xpra integrated with it. Then work on getting test packages using it.
<stgraber> I'll also probably spend a bit of time blogging on x2go, lxc (on armel) and arkose (once I get something working nicely).
<stgraber> (done)
<stgraber> yeah!
<mvo> stgraber: there was a guy (ximion) interessted in using it for some packagekit releated project
<mvo> it == arkose
<stgraber> cool
<slangasek> stgraber: isc-dhcp-client-udeb> AFAICS we should just drop udhcpcd in favor of this everywhere, shouldn't we?
<stgraber> slangasek: yep, mentioned it to cjwatson and I guess we should just make netcfg depend on it, the code will then use it instead of udhcpc
<stgraber> slangasek: then we'll need to teach netcfg about the -6 option to do both dhcpv4 and dhcpv6 (you need two instances of dhclient for that)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> so what's broken with edubuntu today?
<stgraber> gnome-classic :)
<slangasek> heh, alrighty
<slangasek> no doko_ at the moment, so...
<slangasek> psurbhi:
<stgraber> I just did a seed change to include gnome-session-fallback and uploaded a new edubuntu-artwork to set it as default :)
<psurbhi> *) changing the event handling for pivot event to an initctl command interface. Mostly done. But need to work on passing arguments to the real init (as the argument parser cuts off the --args which are not registered and in our case depending on the init the args could be anything)
<psurbhi> *) working on an ext4 bug (but mostly working on the admin stuff before actually getting a chance to work on the bug :-/) wrote one patch for not marking inode dirty when filesystem is frozen. Testing that.
<psurbhi> *) National holiday in Finland tomorrow.
<psurbhi> (done)
<barry> short week due to usa holiday; merges: python-numpy, python-support; worked on python 3.1 eradication; worked on a little aptdb tool (lp:~barry/+junk/aptdb); udd stakeholders meeting; done.
<slangasek> psurbhi: when do you plan to set upstart-in-initramfs loose on us? :)
<psurbhi> slangasek, i need to finish the argument parsing, then a little testing and then i will let it loose
<psurbhi> hopefully next week end
<psurbhi> or the beginning of the week after the next
<psurbhi> :)
<slangasek> sweet
<james_w> barry, what's aptdb?
<psurbhi> slangasek, provided the upstart patch is accepted
<slangasek> a mouthful
<psurbhi> by keybuk and James
<slangasek> psurbhi: <nod>
<barry> james_w: it a dumb little tool for parsing the _Sources file into a sqlite db so you can do sql queries on things.  i really dislike grep-dctrl ;)
<james_w> heh
<slangasek> barry: fwiw, the current round of CDs for alpha1 are coming in about 24MB oversized; the sooner we have a ballpark figure for the impact of python3, the better... :)
<barry> the nice thing is that only takes about 4m on my box to parse and populate the db.
<barry> slangasek: gotcha
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> branches for update-manager, meta-release and aptdaemon, finish teams in ubuntu bug control membership policy spec
<bdmurray> uploading fix for LP: #769205 (python-pysnmp4) to lucid-proposed and updating the bug for the SRU process
<mvo> \o/
<bdmurray> launchpad greasemonkey script fixs for display dup count and date last updated, uploaded new version of firefox-lp-improvements
<bdmurray> moving ftbfs milestones from alpha-1 to alpha-2
<bdmurray> adding package person upload count code to ubuntu-qa-tools
<bdmurray> handing off the ubuntu boot speed project to patrickmw
<bdmurray> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray: what's the membership policy spec? (link?)
<bdmurray> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-qa-o-ubuntu-bugcontrol-membership-policy
<slangasek> thanks
<slangasek> heh, it even shows up on http://status.chrisjohnston.org/ubuntu-oneiric/canonical-foundations.html now \o/
<slangasek> ev:
 * slangasek leaks beta urls into the channel :)
<ev> Done:
<ev> - Investigated the state of the gobject-introspected Cheese bindings, as well
<ev>   as our own C-based approach.  The latter is slightly buggy, not properly
<ev>   initializing gstreamer (though this can be worked around easily), and the
<ev>   former, like so many other GI-based APIs seems to be at best a guessing
<ev>   game.
<ev> - Started the gobject-introspection migration of Ubiquity and port to GTK+3.
<ev>   This has been slow going due to the lack of proper documentation, or even a
<ev>   dump of the API.  Currently fighting unicode interaction in Gtk.ListStore.
<ev>   Kill me now.
<ev> - MIRs for python-xklavier and xvfb.
<ev> - Added pyflakes checking to the check make target in ubiquity. This includes
<ev>   code to filter out errors that we don't care about, but should massively
<ev>   help avoid silly typo uploads - I hope.
<ev> - Upgraded main development machine to Oneiric. Spent the morning fighting a
<ev>   udev bug.  Thanks to jibel and pitti for discovering and fixing it.
<ev> - Discussed the measuring installation failure / success proposal with mdz.
<ev>   Replied to Kees on the technical-board mailing list, attempting to address
<ev>   his concerns with the proposal.
<ev> - Fought ubiquity dependencies to the death in trying to get a new version
<ev>   out. Lost, but Colin caught an error in the unit tests that was the source
<ev>   of the build breakage.
<ev> TODO:
<ev> - Build out more unit tests as I port ubiquity to GTK+3/PyGI/Python 3,
<ev>   starting with full coverage of gtkwidgets.py.
<ev> - Still need to reply to more of the discussion around installation failure /
<ev>   success.
<ev> - Need to figure out what the next steps are with respect to the automatic
<ev>   crash reporting and database.
<ev> - Need to sit down with mpt and work out what the long-term vision around
<ev>   feedback collection, starting with cancelling the installation, will be.
<ev>   This will help determine whether Mozilla Input / Feedback is overkill for
<ev>   said task. Then obviously I need to finish deploying Mozilla Feedback
<ev>   locally, modifying it along the way to suit our needs.
<ev> - Need to follow up with John Lea and Ale on the Wubi design work, then start
<ev>   integrating the migration stuff.
<ev> (done)
 * slangasek scrambles to hold the papers down on his desk as ev blows through
<ev> lol
<mvo> yeah, don't do this while I drink tea, dangerous to me equipement!
<ev> haha
<mvo> and my sympathies for the gtk3/gi, I feel the same when it comes to porting s-c
<slangasek> ev: xvfb has been in main forever, what's the MIR there?
<ev> hmm, maybe it wasn't xvfb then
 * ev checks
<ev> (do continue, I'll report back)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> me next
<slangasek> short week due to US holiday
<slangasek> getting the last of my multiarch deltas flushed to oneiric from ppa
<slangasek> working with Debian maintainers to get multiarch landed upstream so we can get rid of our deltas
<slangasek> finishing off spec approvals... behind on this, if you're still waiting for a spec, you can yell at me now
<slangasek> following up on some tricky merges
<slangasek> turning the cranks for alpha-1 this week
<slangasek> EOF
<slangasek> and if there are no questions... jhunt:
<jhunt> Short week. Remainder: Upstart bzr merge hell.
<jhunt> EOT
<jhunt> Note quite that bad, but very painstaking. See
<jhunt> lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/1.3 on my lp code page for progress. Plan:
<jhunt> finish natty merges into 1.3 branch and release Upstart 1.3. Then, add
<jhunt> psurbhis initramfs changes, discuss oneieric plans on ML and then
<jhunt> start coding!
<jhunt> EOT (really this time :)
<slangasek> should lp:upstart be redirected to lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/1.3 now?
<jhunt> well, we could redirect now, but that branch is changing very rapidly right now and isn't fully tested yet.
<slangasek> well, does it build / run? :)
<jhunt> I was planning to finish the merging, test thoroughly, update my upstart ppa with the code and invite feedback and then switch the link.
<slangasek> as you wish :)
<jhunt> "yes", but due to the number of changes, I'm not remerging into an ubuntu pkg for each change, building, and actually testing that a system boots with that commit.
<slangasek> ok
<jhunt> That has to happen, but I was planning to do the next round of such testing when I finish merging the visualisation code (prolly today/tomorrow AM)
 * slangasek nods
<jhunt> CI could be useful to me right now :)
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> segway....
<slangasek> [TOPIC] CI support from QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  CI support from QA team
<slangasek> I sent out an email call for recommendations of packages the QA team could start doing CI on
<slangasek> because they're keen to get continuous integration coverage of the system, and who are we to argue!
<mvo> the auto-upgrade-tester stuff would be good
<mvo> I would love to hand this off
<slangasek> so if you have packages... like upstart... that you'd like CI for, let me know
<slangasek> mvo: this is testing that upgrades run successfully from the previous release to the current dev release, yes?
<psurbhi> I would like initramfs tested once the changes are in
<mvo> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> psurbhi: how do you think we can structure such tests?  Is it just to make sure the system boots to userspace after a change to the initramfs packages (upstart, initramfs-tools, busybox)?
<psurbhi> slangasek, yes
<slangasek> ok
<psurbhi> but that needs to be done for desktop, servers with different configurations
<psurbhi> like md array, lvm, crypted devices, none of these, etc
<doko_> hi
<ev> isn't this the wrong way around? Shouldn't we be coming up with a list of the things that should be tested and run under a CI system, rather than the tests that could be restructured under CI? Or am I missing the point entirely? :)
<mvo> the apt testsuite would be another candidate indeed
<slangasek> psurbhi: alright - I'll pass it on to QA that this is one of our target areas, if you can get me a list of things we need to test we can set them to work on getting the configs up
<psurbhi> slangasek, sure, will do that.. thanks!
<slangasek> ev: well, we don't want to rerun initramfs tests after *any* package has changed... just trying to get a feel for what we think we need tested when
<ev> apologies, that was a bit poorly worded on my part
<ev> at what step do we sit down and determine the things that we're not testing, and come up with a plan to test them
<ev> l
<ev> larger components, for example, like how do we test grub exactly
<slangasek> so I've got initramfs, auto-upgrade-tester, apt testsuite.  If anyone has other ideas of packages we want QA to test for us, shoot me an email
<slangasek> ev: let me add grub to the list then, we'll see what QA can figure out ;)
<slangasek> doko_: hey there!  would you like to give a status update?
<doko_> - filed MIR's, reviewed and promoted packages for component mismatches
<doko_> - some merges
<doko_> - built OpenJDK 7, now in the archive, JamVM bug triage
<doko_> - GCC updates
<doko_> - Linaro toolchain WG call
<ev> slangasek: cool, thanks
<doko_> not much interesting ...
<slangasek> uninteresting GCC updates... that's good :-)
<doko_> well, some wrong-code fixes =)
<slangasek> any wrong code that we should be concerned about?
<jhunt> anything armel related?
<doko_> I don't know, libstdc++ was found mis-compiled
<slangasek> ah, but who uses that
<doko_> nothing armel related. we didn't have linaro updates after the initial one
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> Good news, bad news?
<bdmurray> I'm still looking for insight regarding aptdaemon crash report quantities ... https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033302.html
<slangasek> jhunt: I think finding that CA is not the blocker for upstart we thought it would be is good news :)
<mvo> s-c qml branch is basicly working, can show categories, pkglist, details, install stuff search
<ScottK> There's a python-defaults with 2.7 as default in experimental so it's easier for Debian people to test.  Another step along the way ...
<ScottK> This is relevant for when we'll drop 2.6.
<jhunt> slangasek: good point! It *has* simplfied the merge work.
<barry> ScottK: \o/
<slangasek> mvo, barry: any idea on bdmurray's aptdaemon issue?
<slangasek> ScottK: how close is that to going to unstable?
<barry> slangasek: not off the top of my head, but i can investigate a bit
<mvo> bdmurray: I need to look into this
<slangasek> ok, you two can thumb wrestle for the honor
<ScottK> slangasek: I think the critical path item will be a transition slot from the release team.
 * ScottK didn't formally ask for one yet, but has started discussions and research for the official bug filing.
<bdmurray> okay, thanks
<mvo> bdmurray: I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) that actually writing the report (like aptdaemon is doing) is enough to trigger the code in u-n to fire up the GUI to report it even if the actual daemon is disabled
<barry> ScottK: i haven't seen much progress on debian bug 622279
<ubottu> Debian bug 622279 in release.debian.org "transition: python-defaults (switching default: 2.6 -> 2.7)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/622279
<slangasek> ScottK: does that actually require a coordinated transition into testing?
<ScottK> slangasek: It does require some coordination.  It's not exactly like a library transition, but we can end up tying multiple transitions together if we're not careful.
<slangasek> ok
<mvo> bdmurray: yeah, that seems to be it
<ScottK> barry: Mostly the blockers are otherwise broken/we decided we aren't going to let it stop us.
<barry> ScottK: excellent
<ev> going to be attempting to create a status board in the office as a fun weekend project with Iain (http://hungfu.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/not-that-kind-of-bored/). Suggestions welcome for useful data points that would define how close we are to a finished Ubuntu release.
<slangasek> other than a burndown chart? :)
<bdmurray> mvo: hunh, I thought apport had to be running to detect and deal with a file in /var/crash
<ev> slangasek: indeed, other than the burndown charts :)
<ev> those are the obvious ones, perhaps
<ev> though as it will be presumably be viewed by people in the office, they don't really care about things like release bugs
<mvo> bdmurray: apport will detect crashes when it runs, but aptdaemon will bypass that by catching the crash directly, this is also the case with apt itself, so this explains the many reports it seems
<ev> (and those are entirely unhelpful in the early stages anyway)
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:51.
<ev> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<slangasek> alrighty... back to work
<slangasek> thanks all :)
<ScottK> ev: Isn't 'the release is finished' defined by 'the calendar says this is release day'?
<stgraber> thanks!
<jhunt> thx
<ev> ScottK: don't get me started on that one :-P
<ScottK> ;-)
<mvo> thanks
<mvo> oh, pucblic holiday tomorrow in germany!
 * charlie-tca waves
<charlie-tca> Let's get this Ubuntu QA team meeting rolling
 * bdmurray waves
<charlie-tca> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is charlie-tca.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<charlie-tca> As usual, the full agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<charlie-tca> Previous Actions (all)
<charlie-tca> Community Efforts/Testing
<charlie-tca> Automated/Systems Testing
<charlie-tca> Engineering Team Bug Status
<charlie-tca> Other Topics
<charlie-tca> Chair Selection
<charlie-tca> since we can't all get the pages to load when we would like them to.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous Actions
<charlie-tca> I do not recall any. Does anyone else know of a previous item we need to discuss?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<bdmurray> I believe hggdh wanted me to publish some code (to find number of packages uploaded by people) which I did
<bdmurray> I put it in ubuntu-qa-tools for lack of a better idea
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<jibel> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, jibel
<jibel> A word about SRU testing and another about Oneiric Alpha1
<jibel> SRU Testing: 7 new high importance bugs need verification this week
<jibel> bug 728088 open-iscsi (Natty) High
<jibel> bug 755608 ntrack (Natty) High
<jibel> bug 772185 nux (Natty) High
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 728088 in open-iscsi (Ubuntu Natty) "iscsi root with or without auth fails to boot" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/728088
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 755608 in ntrack (Ubuntu Natty) "Ntrack dead loop in function get_nl_link_by_index " [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/755608
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 772185 in nux (Ubuntu Natty) "launcher sometimes doesn't hide when there are windows beneath it" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/772185
<jibel> bug 777759 casper (Lucid, Maverick, Natty) High
<jibel> bug 778520 mdadm (Natty) Critical
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 777759 in casper (Ubuntu Natty) "10.10 live CD prompts to upgrade to 11.04" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/777759
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 778520 in mdadm (Ubuntu Natty) "install on degraded raid1 does not boot, drops to initramfs shell" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778520
<jibel> bug 781874 aptdaemon (Natty) High
<jibel> bug 784888 vm-builder (Natty) High
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 781874 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Natty) "<type 'exceptions.TypeError'>: __init__() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781874
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784888 in vm-builder (Ubuntu Natty) "indexerror in vmbuilder when partitionfile contains 2 columns or less" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784888
<jibel> and we still need verification of
<jibel> bug 695290 grub2 (Lucid, Maverick) High
<jibel>     Requires dual RAID controllers
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 695290 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "10_lupin case problem with ntfs UUIDs" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/695290
<jibel> bug 778026 lirc (Natty) Critical
<jibel>     Requires an Infrared Remote Control
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 778026 in lirc (Ubuntu Natty) "lirc-modules-source breaks in-kernel lirc support" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778026
<jibel> The complete list is available at
<jibel> [LINK] http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sru/latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sru/latest.html
<jibel> and http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<jibel> so please go there and test a SRU
<jibel> any question about SRU testing ?
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much. Let's see if we can get those SRU's done this week, everybody. :-)
<jibel> ok, Oneiric Alpha 1 ISO Testing
<jibel> Image were published very late to fix with udev, apt and ubiquity defects, and kubuntu images have been published a few hours ago only. So the image coverage is low:
<jibel>  * Image Coverage       : 36.51% (23/63)
<jibel> on the other hand no release blocker have been found at this stage of the testing.
<jibel> The main issues discovered concern unity-2d:
<jibel> bug 791213 , bug 791127
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791213 in unity-2d "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QMetaObject::metacall()" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791213
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791127 in unity-2d "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QTJSC::Structure::materializePropertyMap()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791127
<jibel> 2 very common crashes:
<jibel> bug 788714 , bug 788710
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788714 in gnome-user-share (Ubuntu) "gnome-user-share crashed with SIGABRT in g_option_context_parse()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788714
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 788710 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788710
<jibel> a theming issue with nautilus: bug 784209
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784209 in nautilus (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Background fails to redraw" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784209
<jibel> 7 reports need a confirmation. The complete list is available at http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/isotesting/oneiric/opened.html
<jibel> especially bug 791121 which has been fixed yesterday but a tester is still facing it with the latest desktop build.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791121 in udev (Ubuntu) "user dropped into busybox shell after installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791121
<jibel> And we need more testing on real hardware or in VMs with 3D enabled to heavily test Unity (not 2D)
<jibel> So, join us on #ubuntu-testing and help us to cover the remaining cases.
<jibel> Thanks for your help!
<jibel> ..
<charlie-tca> Thanks, jibel . Any help we can get with testing these images would be greatly appreciatedQ!
<charlie-tca> Any questions about alpha1 testing?
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<charlie-tca> I'm still learning these new agenda items. Anyone to talk about automated testing?
<charlie-tca> Okay, Maybe we will see someone before the meeting ends...
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status
<charlie-tca> pedro_: ?
<pedro_> yes? :-)
<pedro_> not much to share, we had a great Compiz bug day on last Thursday so thank you guys for helping!
<pedro_> and as a quick reminder this week we're having a bug day for Evolution: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110602
<pedro_> so if you use/like/love that application and wanna learn a bit more about it, please join us tomorrow the *whole* day your timezone
<pedro_> as always at the #ubuntu-bugs channel where the cool people hang ;-)
<pedro_> ..
<charlie-tca> Thank you, pedro_ . Any questions for Engineering Team?
<bdmurray> I've nothing special to report
<charlie-tca> Thank you, bdmurray.
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Other Topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Topics
<patrickmw> o/
<xdatap1> o/
<charlie-tca> go ahead, patrickmw
<patrickmw> sorry, I'm late. I was on an urgent call.  Quick automation update:
<patrickmw> Ubuntu Package Testing:
<patrickmw> - Received package lists from Desktop and Server teams
<patrickmw> * Currently creating the Jenkins job config files for easy import to the new CI server
<patrickmw> Kernel SRU Testing:
<patrickmw> - Autotest has been split into the individual test suites
<patrickmw> - Original suites are compressed and live in a new project also contain Ubuntu patches (for testing)
<patrickmw> * Currently testing that the patching and remote execution work as expected
<patrickmw> ..
<charlie-tca> Thank you for the update, patrickmw
<charlie-tca> go ahead, xdatap1
<xdatap1> thank you charlie-tca
<xdatap1> It's about bug workarounds
<xdatap1> For those who don't know me, my name's Paolo Sammicheli, community guy from Italian LoCo, involved in testing.
<xdatap1> Last UDS in Budapest, while discussing ubuntu friendly program people expressed the idea that the workaround is an useful information from an end user point of view.
<xdatap1> I though about it a litte and then, after chatting with people involved in QA I decided to draft a blueprint for proposing the idea.
<xdatap1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugsKnownWorkAround
<xdatap1> After drafting the blueprint I was pointed to the following bug which was proposed back in 2006
<xdatap1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/54652
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 54652 in Launchpad itself "Add a "workaround" field to bug" [Low,Triaged]
<xdatap1> where somebody suggested me to raise the discussion on the launchpad-dev mailing list.
<xdatap1> The discussion was not so long, you can read it by thread starting from here:
<xdatap1> https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg07174.html
<xdatap1> As usual somebody thinks it's a nice idea, somebody else thinks it's not really necessary.
<xdatap1> The thing is, I'm a bit lost on that mailing list. I'm not sure what to do also because I probably miss the big picture.
<xdatap1> You (or better, We) guys are the guardians of the quality in ubuntu. Do we really think that this idea would be useful?
<xdatap1> Otherwise I would stop bother the launchpad people with this thread.
<xdatap1> :)
<charlie-tca> I like the idea of a separate box for workarounds. It removes it from the jumble of the descrtip
<charlie-tca> description, which can get quite involved
<charlie-tca> anyone else have an opinion on this?
<patrickmw> I don't think its really necessary.  I feel adding WORKAROUND: in the description field is adequate
<bdmurray> I don't think a separate bit is necessary either and maybe adding a tag in addition to the description modification would be a good idea
<charlie-tca> xdatap1: looks bad for adding a separate block
<xdatap1> the goal, from a community point of view, would be to export it (forum, ask ubuntu, etc) and to search for it. How to implement it it's not really important, imho. If parsing the description would work it's ok
<patrickmw> I like the tagging idea
<xdatap1> do you think that the features it's needed?
<xdatap1> apart the implementation
<charlie-tca> I would recommend not pursueing it, just try to teach the triagers that it should be WORKAROUND: in caps at the bottom of the description, along with a tag?
<bdmurray> before starting work it'd probably be a good idea to see how many bugs have workarounds
<charlie-tca> Is there a way to search the description for it?
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: I have my ways
<charlie-tca> heh, yeah, I figured
<patrickmw> bdmurray is the LP Wizard
<charlie-tca> xdatap1: might want to get with bdmurray on it then.
<xdatap1> charlie-tca, perfect. If I can help more just let me know
<charlie-tca> The Workaround is needed, especially on a bug that gets tons of comments, since it can get buried fast in a comment
<charlie-tca> Thanks for bringing that up
<xdatap1> bdmurray, thanks in advance :)
<charlie-tca> Anyone else have something to discuss?
<bdmurray> charlie-tca: maybe we should document that as a thing to do for next meeting?
<charlie-tca> bdmurray to find the numbers of bugs with WORKAROUNDS, so we can discuss a possible tag for them.
<charlie-tca> sound right?
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] bdmurray to find the numbers of bugs with WORKAROUNDS, so we can discuss a possible tag for them.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdmurray to find the numbers of bugs with WORKAROUNDS, so we can discuss a possible tag for them.
<bdmurray> well, I think just tagging them workaround is a good idea too
<bdmurray> then repromote using workarounds in the bug description and see how many we have
<charlie-tca> I do to. It would make them easier to search for, too
<bdmurray> before working on exporting them somewhere else
<charlie-tca> That sounds right to me
<charlie-tca> and last but not least,
<charlie-tca> [Next Chair]
<charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Next Chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next Chair
<charlie-tca> Do we have any volunteers to chair the next meeting?
<charlie-tca> It's not that hard, and you get the previous business action item, too!
<charlie-tca> We all get to be anyway, too
<bdmurray> I'll do it
<charlie-tca> Thank you, bdmurray
<charlie-tca> I really appreciate that
<charlie-tca> [ACTION] bdmurray to chair next meeting, 2011-06-08
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bdmurray to chair next meeting, 2011-06-08
<charlie-tca> There being no more business,
<charlie-tca> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:35.
<charlie-tca> let's all get back to testing and work, right? :-)
<pedro_> thanks!
<xdatap1> thank you!
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<skaet> Thanks all.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-02
<ogra_> fnop
 * ppisati waves
 * davidm_ waves back at ppisati 
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * NCommander kicks the wiki
<NCommander> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110602
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110602
 * davidm_ waves at NCommander 
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
<ogra_> not yet ... A2
<NCommander> c/o'ing
 * davidm_ arm is tired of waving
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
<ogra_> hmm
 * NCommander waves back at davidm_ 
 * ogra_ cant remember what exactly that was
<NCommander> off hand, I think you had to deal with the bug with bintuils segfaulting
<NCommander> */captian obvious*
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> that much i would have guessed :)
<ogra_> anyway, havent done that
<ogra_> c/o
<NCommander> k
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> I think we're off the trendline a bit :-P
<ogra_> yeah, i'll fix that
<ogra_> just waited until we have all specs in
<ogra_> is anyone missing anything from the tracker ?
<ogra_> please tell me now
<NCommander> ogra_: I'll add sometihng after you fix it
<NCommander> :-P
 * ogra_ whacks NCommander 
<NCommander> (all the specs have work items, checked that this morning and added a few more)
<ogra_> looks like GrueMaster has a really boring cycle
<ogra_> nothig to do really
 * GrueMaster suffers a massive aneurysm looking at the number of tasks overall assigned to him.
<ogra_> do you really expect to finish 48 WIs ?
<ogra_> we should see that we get this lower
<NCommander> They're all relatively small
<ogra_> and somehow move WIs to other tema members where possible
<NCommander> i figured I could write one massive work item
<ogra_> *team
<NCommander> 'Test Ubuntu Server:'
<NCommander> or a lot of little small ones which could be distributed
<ogra_> well, a WI needs to at least take a day
<NCommander> ogra_: I disagree
<ogra_> if you have like 10min tasks for WIs the amount indeed rises
<ogra_> NCommander, thats the definition, i didnt make it up
<NCommander> they aren't 10m tasks, but I suspect one or two a day could be done reasonably
<NCommander> and again, GrueMaster can help delgate his work items to interested parties
<davidm_> ogra_, we may have to adjust our definition as we have to make sure items get tracked for this cycle closely
 * NCommander knows theres people out there with vested interested in PXE, ARM server, etc.
<davidm_> I'm OK with 1/2 wi if they are tracking things we need to track
<davidm_> 1/2 day that is
<ogra_> davidm_, well, but 48 seems like an awful big number
<ogra_> we never managed to get more than 20-25 done per release
<ogra_> (per person that is)
<NCommander> ogra_: our work items are usually something like 're-implement the world'
<ogra_> (7 days)
<ogra_> (sorry, couldnt resist :P)
<NCommander> I also broke GrueMaster's QA spec in two specifically because the -qa- one should be medium priority
<ogra_> anywayx, move ...
<davidm_> ogra_, I know but I asked NCommander to make them finer for the ARM server stuff
<NCommander> things we care about, but we can ship broken
<davidm_> and GrueMaster will likely have some help
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<ppisati> nothing exciting except for a boatload of CVE fixes for every release/flavour (lucid/[fsl-imx51|mvl-dove], maverick/ti-omap4, natty/ti-omap4)
<NCommander> \o/
<GrueMaster> BTW:  All (3) of my A1 WI are done.  Just updated the bp.
<NCommander> CVEs are awesome
<NCommander> er
<ppisati> :)
<NCommander> CVE FIXES are awesome
<ppisati> actually i'm wonderting when we'll get the TI .39 drop
<NCommander> ppisati: I think ogra still looking for the virgin sacirfice
<NCommander> ;-)
<ppisati> :)
<ogra_> me ?
<GrueMaster> ppisati: Do you have an omap3 (beagle/beagleXM)?  bug 791552 is for you.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791552 in linux (Ubuntu) "No USB support on beagle/beagleXM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791552
<ogra_> nah, i'm to aged for that virgin stuff
 * NCommander leaves that where it falls.
<ppisati> GrueMaster: ouch, didn't notice it
<ppisati> GrueMaster: ok, i'll add to the backlog
<ogra_> i could need some kernel guy to look at ac100 though :)
<GrueMaster> Just filed yesterday.
 * NCommander needs a kernel guy for the mx5 too :-/
<ogra_> you have an mx5 ?
<ogra_> just use a linro kernel
<ogra_> *linaro
<NCommander> ogra_: well yeah. it doesn't work.
<ogra_> there should exiost one
<NCommander> hence why I need a kernel guy
<ogra_> ah
<NCommander> :-P
<ogra_> well, my kernel isnt in the archive yet, so you go first :P
<NCommander> ppisati: so all the CVE fixes are in *-security now?
<ogra_> we're just discussing to switch to .38 first before i upload
<ppisati> NCommander: nope, but i'm pushing a lot of stuff
<ppisati> NCommander: next cycle
<NCommander> ppisati: awesome
<ppisati> ogra_: .38 for tegra?
<ogra_> ppisati, yes
 * ppisati hopes to get the ac100 soon :)
<ogra_> we're currently at .37
<ogra_> ppisati, oh, that would be awesome
<ogra_> we really lack a person who knows kernel development
<ppisati> ogra_: davidm told me he pushed one to me
<ogra_> even more awesome !
 * ogra_ hugs davidm_ 
<ppisati> davidm_: ah, btw, can you keep me on the list for the new TI hw when it comes? thanks
<NCommander> can I move?
<ppisati> yep
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<davidm_> I will keep the entire team in line for new hardware as it arrives
<ppisati> davidm_: cool
<janimo> no news, I was working on WIs
 * NCommander has nothing to report as I've been dealing with humans
<ogra_> looks okayish ...
<ogra_> at least the images built
<NCommander> I think this is the first time we hit A1
<ogra_> nope
<GrueMaster> Natty was.
<janimo> I am glad to see package maintainers applying arm bits and not leaving it all to us
<ogra_> we did hit it the last two releases
<NCommander> oh yay
<ogra_> GrueMaster, maverick too iirc
<janimo> some natty poatches that were dropped get reapplied without our intervention
<GrueMaster> Maybe for omap3.
<ogra_> well, this time its omyp4 only :)
<NCommander> I think we missed maverick due to an ill-timed openoffice rebuild
<ogra_> *omap
<NCommander> but off-topic
<NCommander> universe is in a sorry mess
<GrueMaster> You're going to have all that fixed by EOW, right?
<ogra_> yes, we need more community involvement
<ogra_> we should have specs for that for next UDS
<GrueMaster> :P
<ogra_> with more HW availability in the community, we should work out strategies how to get them more involved
<NCommander> arm-p-free-beer-for-every-bug-fixed
<NCommander> That will solve the problem.
<ogra_> hard to deliver though
<NCommander> To be delivered at UDS R
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> anyway
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<NCommander> $#!@#!
<ogra_> omap4 is fine
<NCommander> I think we kinda already did this one
<ogra_> omap3 is screwed
<ogra_> and GrueMaster and NCommander  rock !!
<ogra_> tzhanks guys for making A1 happen without me
<GrueMaster> This I know.
<GrueMaster> :P
<NCommander> Thank GrueMaster.
 * NCommander only did paperwork
<ogra_> ac100 iamge is new and up on http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/tegra/2.6.37
<GrueMaster> I noticed that LibreOffice is in the A1 netbook image.  Works good too.
<ogra_> (and now bugfree)
<ogra_> thanks to NCommander and Daviey for helping to identify the bugs
<NCommander> GrueMaster: right, but now when someone opens libreoffice, we'll miss a milestone :-/
<NCommander> ogra_: heh
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> builds libreoffice
<ogra_> well, with the panda cluster it should at least get better
 * NCommander salutees GrueMaster for his hard work on that
<NCommander> ogra_: but more the images skew when libreoffice is uploaded
<NCommander> I'm (in my 'free' time) working on making LP less brain dead in this respect
<NCommander> but its slow going
<ogra_> didnt you have a spec for it ?
<ogra_> and do you have to do it alone
<ogra_> ?
<NCommander> I have a placeholder
<NCommander> Short of someone evelating this internally, I'm not expecting any help on this
<ogra_> NCommander, well, infinity should be around soon
<ogra_> he should be able to do a bit of soyuz stuff
<NCommander> I'm hoping that since we're over the A1 hump, I might find enough free time to get this implemented and save us a TON of pain
<NCommander> ogra_: TBH, I'd prefer to implement it myself, its a good unwind project
<ogra_> NCommander, then shove some of the other WIs over to him
<NCommander> Will do
<ogra_> no matter how you do it, it would be really really good to have it fixed this cycle
<NCommander> I'm working towards loadbalancing the team. A lot of GrueMaster's work items will get moved onto janimo and infinity
<ogra_> and if we need to make some spare time for you to do it, we should be able to find a way
 * janimo overflows with joy
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> anyway, nothing more for images here
<NCommander> janimo: that's -65334 tears of happiness :-)
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<GrueMaster> Spent most of the day yesterday just trying to file a sensible bug report on the broken omap kernel.
<janimo> NCommander, my hapiness is a short apparently
<GrueMaster> We need to have apport installed on the headless images.
<janimo> long long is preferred
<ogra_> GrueMaster, tricky since we dont have a seed
<ogra_> (and i dont really want to maintain one)
<GrueMaster> Other than that, I did some basic boot tests on the images for A1, and dabbled a little in some of the apps that are on the netbook image for omap4.
<ogra_> might have to change for the server images though
<NCommander> ogra_: er, we could just add apport-cli to livecd-rootfs */hack*
<GrueMaster> Well, the issue I had was that usb support was non-existant.  It would initialize and recognize the onboard usb hubs, but nothing that was attached from there.
<GrueMaster> So no network support.
<ogra_> NCommander, well, sure
<ogra_> NCommander, but i assume our server images should have apport by default anyway
<NCommander> ogra_: one would hope so
<NCommander> hopefully the migration to live-helper will be done
<GrueMaster> We should have some way of adding some minimal stuff anyways.  wifi on omap4 is non-existant on headless.
<NCommander> I 'look' forward to implementing support for live headless images
<NCommander> ogra_: as much as I hate to say it, I think we need a headless seed
<ogra_> GrueMaster, yes, the basic wifi apps arent in minimal ... nor is wpa-supplicant
<NCommander> begin crying now
<ogra_> NCommander, i disagree
 * ppisati kicks an omap3 kernel compilation...
<ogra_> i think we need a server seed and images for it
<NCommander> ogra_: adding packages to livecd-rootfs isn't going to scale :-P
<ogra_> and leave the headless image as is :)
<NCommander> ogra_: er, didn't we agree we wanted both?
<ogra_> right
<NCommander> I think yo umight be missing the point
 * ogra_ would rather make the headless images unofficial and move forward with server here 
<ogra_> instead of having to mintain extra hacks for headless
<GrueMaster> Headless is next to useless without some base level of packages installed.
<janimo> although server != minimal which headless was supposed to be
<NCommander> We're getting offtopic
<GrueMaster> True.
<NCommander> [topic] ABO
<MootBot> New Topic:  ABO
<NCommander> Now we're on topic
<NCommander> we
<NCommander> *er
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ogra_> nothing here
<ogra_> shoot it down :)
<ogra_> (unless someone else shouts)
<NCommander> I'd actually like to propose to returning on reporting individual spec status
<NCommander> Er, sorry, individual's status
<ogra_> returning ?
<NCommander> (my brain is kinda fried)
<NCommander> We used to do it when we were called the Embedded Team
<ogra_> did we ever drop it (beyond nobody doing it i mean)
<NCommander> We used to do NCommander's status, ogra's status
<ogra_> when were we called the embedded team ?
<NCommander> Back when we dealt with Moblin. It was the MobileAndEmbedded Team
<NCommander> (according to the wiki anyway)
<ogra_> heh
 * ogra_ only knew it as mobile team, but well)
<ogra_> you mean reporting personal status in the meeting ?
<NCommander> yeah
<ogra_> instead of wikipage ?
<NCommander> I realize there is a time concern
<NCommander> No, both
<ogra_> that will eat a *loT* of extra time
<ogra_> when we did that our meetings were like 1.5h and longer
<NCommander> I know.
<ogra_> thats why we dropped it
<NCommander> hrm
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> I forgot that bit
<NCommander> shutting up now
<ogra_> so find something else to drop
<ogra_> to compensate ...
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> One other point
<NCommander> bah
<NCommander> Daviey isn't around
<ogra_> Daviey is around
<NCommander> I wanted to get some cross-reporting between Ubuntu ARM and Ubuntu Server
<NCommander> not in this channel
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> bah
 * ogra_ takes away NCommanders blindfold
<NCommander> I hate autocomplete
<NCommander> And I'd like to find some volunteers to attend the weekly server team meeting
<NCommander> and some volunteers from the server team to attend ours regularly
 * GrueMaster hides
<NCommander> (the meeting is 16:00 UTC on Tuesday)
<GrueMaster> Same time as the linaro meeting.
<ogra_> thats wed.
<ogra_> or not ?
<NCommander> No, the sync meeting moved to Tuesday as I found out
<ogra_> ah, no, mixed it up with the porting jam
<Daviey> o/
<NCommander> that's an unfortunate choice of timezone
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> time
<NCommander> oh hai Daviey
<Daviey> hello!
<NCommander> Daviey: we're trying to get some cross-pollination going between teh ARM and server meetings
<Daviey> NCommander: funny you say that! :)
<Daviey> NCommander: have you witnessed one of the -server meetings?
<NCommander> I'd like to add a 'ARM Server' sectoin to our meeting page, with someone present from the Ubuntu Server Team
<NCommander> Daviey: I haven't had opportunity
<Daviey> NCommander: I'm wondering if it would be a better fit for someone arm to join a server meeting?
<Daviey> Or format has sections for each 'interest' area.
<Daviey> QA, Kernel, Community, Documentation
<NCommander> as does ours (although ATM, we're quite generalized)
<Daviey> We would happily add an Arm section :)
<NCommander> My plan was to add a Server section
<Daviey> NCommander: ok.. I think the thing that is a challenge.. I'm not quite sure if Oneiric ARM server is a Server project or an ARM project?
<NCommander> Daviey: its both
<NCommander> I don't want to hold the meeitng open, so why don't we take this offline, and then drop a notice with the next {Server,ARM} Meeting Reminder email
<Daviey> NCommander: Okay, just for information... the interested parties in ARM on the server team are myself, zul and hallyn.
<NCommander> [action] Daviey and NCommander to discuss cross-server/ARM team meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Daviey and NCommander to discuss cross-server/ARM team meeting
<Daviey> NCommander: sounds good.
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:47.
<mdz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:56. The chair is mdz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<mdz> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<kees> \o
<mdz> pitti isn't online, so I assume he isn't going to make it
<mdz> sabdfl declined in the calendar
<mdz> cjwatson is online, but he's on holiday, so he presumably won't be here
<kees> is 3 quorum?
 * mdz nods
<mdz> we've regarded it as such in the past
<kees> yeah, that's my memory too
<mdz> [topic] Action review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action review
<mdz> Persia to see if Bryce is willing to serve as LP stakeholder for Ubuntu
<mdz> I've asked bryce asynchronously for an update
<mdz> [topic] ffmpeg vs. libav
<MootBot> New Topic:  ffmpeg vs. libav
<mdz> I guess this was discussed some at the last meeting, which I wasn't present for
<mdz> the notes said that we wanted to hear from Reinhard, and he's responded now
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000891.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000891.html
<kees> right. given that I've seen both sides of this, I think I'm satisfied to stay where we are: libav
<kees> trying to track ffmpeg would require a dedicated maintainer, and Ubuntu does not seem to have anyone willing to do that currently.
<kees> I only see downsides to switching from libav.
<mdz> libav is the status quo, so we would need a justification to switch away from it
<kees> right, and I don't see anything significant to do that currently.
<mdz> it's all feeling a little bit cdrecordish to me
<mdz> Keybuk, any thoughts?
<kees> bryce: we're looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda and have "Persia to see if Bryce is willing to serve as LP stakeholder for Ubuntu". can you speak to this at all?
<mdz> <bryce> sure, I'd be happy to help
<Keybuk> mdz: I don't believe I have the necessary background
<Keybuk> all I saw was flamewar
<bryce> kees, yes we spoke a couple UDSes ago, and yes I'd be happy to help
<kees> bryce: ah-ha, perfect. thanks!
<kees> Keybuk: did you have additional questions based on the techboard thread?
<Keybuk> kees: I didn't see anything in the techboard thread that led me to have technical questions
<Keybuk> nothing suggested ffmpeg was technically better, so I don't see any need to dispute the current maintainer decisions
<Keybuk> <insert joke about the community council being the one that deals with childish disputes :p>
<kees> Keybuk: okay, so you're okay with status quo too.
<mdz> OK, so this came in as an inquiry from an upstream developer, suggesting that what the Ubuntu maintainer had done was not in the best interest of our users
<mdz> I haven't heard of any complaints from our users about it yet
<Keybuk> mdz: it came from the upstream developer of a package we weren't using though, right?
<mdz> Keybuk, yes
<Keybuk> I must admit, I wrote that of us "how dare Ubuntu not use *my* software, and use something else"
<mdz> if someone wanted to maintain the other fork in Ubuntu as well, and make both available to users, that wouldn't seem unreasonable to me
<Keybuk> and then failed to find any technical argument from the author as to why we should
<Keybuk> mdz: agree
<mdz> but if the maintainer chose to follow libav, the TB can't tell them whether they should package something else
<mdz> they should be regarded as different software at this point
<mdz> one is packaged for Ubuntu, the other is not yet (but would be welcome)
<mdz> kees, does that seem like a reasonable position to you?
<kees> mdz: yup.
<mdz> OK, I'll follow up on the list
<Keybuk> to me also
<mdz> [action] mdz to summarize consensus on libav/ffmpeg to the mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to summarize consensus on libav/ffmpeg to the mailing list
<kees> they would have colliding binary packages, though
<mdz> kees, that could presumably be fixed in packaging
 * kees nods
<mdz> [topic] Set series RM to ubuntu-release?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Set series RM to ubuntu-release?
<mdz> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/174375/comments/21
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/174375/comments/21
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 174375 in Launchpad itself "Distribution drivers permissions may need redesign" [Low,Triaged]
<mdz> the bug mentioned there is now fixed
<mdz> so in theory we should be able to set the series release manager to ubuntu-release
<kees> let's do it and see what breaks?
<mdz> let's tell people that we're doing it, and then do it, and see what breaks :-)
<mdz> any volunteers?
<kees> seems like it should be coordinated with skaet at least?
<mdz> yse
<mdz> yes
<kees> I'm not entirely comfortable volunteering myself for this since these discussions have mostly been involved people doing archive admin work, so perhaps cjwatson?
<kees> s/been //g
<mdz> we can push this to the next meeting where cjwatson is here
<mdz> it's not urgent
<kees> ok
<mdz> [topic] Measuring installation success/failure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Measuring installation success/failure
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000857.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000857.html
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033194.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-May/033194.html
<kees> aiui, ev is looking for a TB "blessing" for this data gathering.
<mdz> I like the general idea of gathering data which will give us an indication of how effective our installer is
<kees> I generally do too. I remain unconvinced that the proposed data gather is substantially useful, though.
<kees> *gathering
<mdz> Evan wasn't crystal clear about what he wanted decided
<mdz> and several issues have cropped up in the discussion
<mdz> Keybuk was concerned about how the collected data would be shared
<mdz> kees, I think that's a valid concern, but perhaps not something for the TB to decide
<mdz> I think it's Evan's responsibility to make it useful, and our responsibility to set policy for what's permissible
<kees> mdz: that's fair
<mdz> kees, and FWIW I would recommend to evan that he consider your advice carefully :-)
<mdz> so the policy questions I think are regarding what data is collected, and what we do with it
<kees> right. I don't want to get us into the trap where we approve "meaningless data collection" since it's harmless, and then end up on an unregulated slippery slope of "harmful" data collection just happening without review.
<mdz> what is proposed to be collected is a GUID
<kees> right, it's a random number. I have no problem with that.
<mdz> ah, right, he did specify how it would be generated (uuidgen)
<mdz> so it's random
<mdz> that ID is associated with an installation attempt which was started
<mdz> specifically, a Ubiquity installation attempt
<mdz> it's then used to report back that the installation succeeded
<mdz> the user implicitly shares their IP address in the process, of course
<mdz> what's the worst thing that could be done with that information?
<kees> the correlation of guid to IP can also be seen as an identity leak, since it could be used in the future
<Keybuk> you could use the table of IPs collected to discern which Fortune 500 companies were using Ubuntu
<kees> if we did not save the IP on the server side, and did not keep the GUID after install success on the client side, I think that would be okay
<Keybuk> since they tend to have public IP blocks
<mdz> kees, agreed, but ideally we wouldn't have to ask for that trust
<mdz> kees, what's the identity leak?
<kees> mdz: if the guid is saved on the client and the IP is saved on the server, it can be used to look up from what IP a given system was installed from. it's pretty minor, obviously.
<kees> (assuming the server data is public)
<mdz> the GUID would only be saved on the client until the next time it connected to the network
<mdz> according to evan's proposal
<Keybuk> if the IP is saved on the server, the information could be used by Canonical Support Sales to identify potential customers and sell support contracts to them
<kees> right, I was stressing that it is important that guid be removed on the client.
<Keybuk> if the IP is saved on a public server, it could be used by other support companies, or competitors
<mdz> I didn't notice if there was discussion of how this impacts OEM installs
<mdz> we definitely wouldn't want a UUID getting stored on factory installed systems
<mdz> Keybuk, is there anything evil that Canonical could do that Canonical can't do by virtue of controlling DNS for archive.*.ubuntu.com already?
<Keybuk> mdz: no, likewise Canonical already collects the IPs of booting Ubuntu machines, and could use that information for the same purposes
<Keybuk> I'm just answering the question from a perception POV
<mdz> there are surely already places where Ubuntu systems generate random numbers and send them over the network
<mdz> like TLS connections
<mdz> has anyone considered whether this could be done without generating a UUID?
<mdz> it seems like it could
<kees> the ephemeral keys in TLS aren't saved by the server usually
<kees> but they're connection-based, so they don't survive the install.
<mdz> http://installreport.ubuntu.com/start followed by http://installreport.ubuntu.com/finish, divide finishes by starts?
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://installreport.ubuntu.com/start followed by http://installreport.ubuntu.com/finish, divide finishes by starts?
<mdz> MootBot, you are too clever for your own good
<ScottK> I was one of the objectors to this.  I don't think we should be collecting data from users that's not needed for system operation without opt-in.
<kees> mdz: right.
<ScottK> I'm also on a very laggy connection, so if it seems like I'm running behind, that may be why.
<mdz> ScottK, do you want a copy of the meeting log up to this point?
<ScottK> mdz: I have it.
<Keybuk> ScottK: I do agree with mdz that the usefulness of this data is only interesting if it's implicit
<kees> since ev is not here, perhaps continue this on the TB list?
<ScottK> Keybuk: I agree that opt-in compromises the utility, but I think without opt-in it's not appropriate.
<mdz> ScottK, what is the data that you don't feel should be collected in this case?
<ScottK> Also I think the opt-out mechanism he proposed was sufficiently convoluted that it's equivalent to not having one.
<ScottK> mdz: I don't think it's appropriate to engage in any user data collection without consent.
<mdz> ScottK, I understand, but that isn't what I asked
<ScottK> There are some things that one could inherently collect like how many people hit security.ubuntu.com for updates, but that's needed to make the system work.
<mdz> ScottK, what data would be collected from users if we went ahead with this proposal?
<ScottK> mdz: I'm objecting to the entire thing being opt-out.
<kees> ScottK: do you see having a system hit "http://installreport.ubuntu.com/start" and .../finish as a problem?
<mdz> I think ScottK is lagging as he warned he might
<ScottK> I think that's less of a concern since there's not really any information being transmitted beyond hitting the server.  I'd need to think about it.
<mdz> it's not strictly necessary to make the system work, but I think I would argue that there is (indirect) benefit to the user
<mdz> if the data is used to improve the quality of the installer
<ScottK> It's a slippery slope.
<mdz> ScottK, yes it is
<mdz> so we're treading cautiously
<ScottK> I feel like needed to make the system work versus data we'd like to have is a bright line.
<mdz> unless someone convinces me otherwise, I think that the use of a UUID is not essential to the objective, and so I don't think we need to be concerned about potentially identifying information
<ScottK> Once you cross it, how to you define the limit?
<mdz> I think we can distill it to the point where the only information being shared is whether Ubuntu was installed successfully or not
<kees> hm... do-release-upgrade fetching installer-specific things when it runs, does ubiquity do anything like that on install? maybe we're already hitting a url.
<mdz> kees, yes
<mdz> I'm pretty sure
<kees> so then we're half way there. we just need an on-first-boot url. that's less obvious to me, though.
<mdz> ScottK, I think we can set limits which make sense
<kees> ScottK: agreed -- I think having a direct operational benefit is the key.
<mdz> kees, not quite. I think we need to store some state, and only hit the "finish" URL if we successfully hit the "start" one
<ScottK> mdz: OK.  I'd like to see the policy for the limit made first.
<mdz> fair enough. let's try to steer away from the technical implementation
<mdz> I'm comfortable assuming that we can get to a point where virtually no incidental information is shared, other than what we're trying to collect
<kees> I would agree. if there is a reason why guid would be required, that should be a separate issue.
<mdz> so the question is: is it OK to report back whether the installation succeeded or failed?
<ScottK> I think taking a step back from this use case, I think having a general policy in place is important.
<maco> mdz: how do you report failed?
<ScottK> Why is this OK, but not popcon by default?
<mdz> possible answers include: yes (unconditionally), no (unconditionally), yes (but only opt-in), yes (but only with opt-out)
<mdz> maco, it's implicit
<maco> mdz: what's the difference between failed and cancelled?
<mdz> maco, we're taking it as a given that this is possible, and we can have a separate technical discussion about how to do it
<kees> in general, I disagree with opt-out.
<mdz> ScottK, popcon is problematic for a few reasons, not least because there is a lot of identifying information there
<kees> opt-in is UI-noisy and doesn't give ev what he's really after
<ScottK> mdz: I agree, but I think someone needs to define the limit of what's OK for opt-out.
<mdz> ScottK, but to play devil's advocate, our default web browser shares similar information without the user's consent
<mdz> or rather, with their implicit consent, depending on how you look at it
<mdz> kees, I agree that it's a UI wart, but why doesn't it give evan what he's after?
<mdz> because not enough people would click the button?
<ScottK> mdz: I would argue that doing so it a bad thing and the best that can be said about it is it represents a compromise that we have to live with.
<kees> I would support "yes" if I could see an immediate benefit to the user. I still don't see one beyond the weak "maybe we have improved the installer" thing.
<kees> mdz: because the numbers would then have an additional variable of "who clicked it"
<mdz> ScottK, I don't think we have to live with it, but we do, and our users don't seem to mind
<ScottK> How many of our users really know?
<mdz> kees, unless that correlates somehow with success or failure of the installation, it doesn't seem relevant
<Keybuk> mdz: they're probably completely unaware of it
<mdz> Keybuk, exactly
<Keybuk> the key there is whether the information is sufficiently non-identifying that they never *need* to be aware of it
<mdz> Keybuk, I think a good test is whether, if they *did* know, they would mind
<Keybuk> ie. if Firefox collected everyone's browsing histories and published them
<Keybuk> it's something you would want to be aware of
<mdz> and I don't know the answer to that, honestly
<mdz> but it's testable
<ScottK> The existence of branded Firefox packages given the constraints on them is making the (arguable) best of a difficult situation.
<Keybuk> but Firefox collecting histograms about the average time a DNS lookup takes -> only Firefox cares
<mdz> Keybuk, what about sharing which extensions you have installed, and which versions?
<Keybuk> (and any Firefox developer, and anyone doing DNS work, and anyone optimising web sites, etc.)
<Keybuk> but fundamentally not the user
<mdz> sharing which web pages you're visiting in order to check for phishing attempts?
<ScottK> mdz: I would think that would most appropriately be opt-in.
<mdz> ScottK, I'm not sure it's realistic to come up with a general policy at this point, given there are so many subtleties to this topic
<Keybuk> sharing everything you type into the awesomebar to third parties? :p
<mdz> it hasn't come up enough times that it's problematic to handle on a case by case basis
<mdz> Keybuk, sharing things you START to type into the box, in Chrome's case :-)
<ScottK> mdz: Perhaps, but I think we need a line in the sand beyone which the TB won't go.
<Keybuk> mdz: I was just looking at the data we collect, as it happens :D
<mdz> ScottK, I think we already have such a line drawn at collecting PII, by way of precedent, and I would be comfortable making that explicity
<mdz> s/ity$/it/
<ScottK> What's your definition of PII then?
<mdz> I'm not sure of the best way to specify that. number of bits?
<mdz> there is always going to be room for interpretation
<mdz> and it can be really hard to tell
<kees> I think PII remains a judgement call, even if we explicitly declare it out of bounds
<mdz> I agree
<mdz> I think we have to punt on this for the time being; we aren't going to come to a conclusion in this meeting
<mdz> but we can try to get to some other topics
<mdz> we can continue the discussion by email
 * ScottK agrees (re punting)
<mdz> [topic] Policy proposal for partner repository
<MootBot> New Topic:  Policy proposal for partner repository
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000875.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000875.html
<kees> I was curious how this differed from -extras
<kees> (policy-wise)
<mdz> kees, is there a written policy for extras which could be shared with partner?
<kees> mdz: I couldn't find it when I looked earlier this week
<kees> I think we should check with allison
<mdz> I'll CC her into the email discussion for input
<mdz> my view on this is that we'll never get a policy like this right the first time, and it will need to be updated as time goes on
<kees> beyond that thought, nothing jumped out at me.
<mdz> if there is a problem, we'll change the policy to prevent further problems of that kind
<kees> right
<kees> I'd also be curious to get archive admin opinions on this, since we may be missing some additional implicit things
<mdz> it doesn't reference the Debian or Ubuntu policy manual, and it probably should
<mdz> any other comments â email
<mdz> [topic] ubuntu-techboard celebrity in Launchpad
<MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-techboard celebrity in Launchpad
<mdz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000907.html
<mdz> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000907.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000907.html
<kees> seems like we're not ready to drop this, pending additional bug fixes
<mdz> if james_w says we can't do this yet, then I say we don't do it yet
<kees> right
<mdz> we're out of time
<mdz> is there anything else urgent?
<mdz> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<mdz> ok, thanks all
<mdz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:01.
<kees> thanks mdz!
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-03
<apw> that means i need to get the m-i-t changes in so you can upload
<apw> urgle
<apw> thuugh i presume we'll wait for -rc2 at least
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-06-05
<holstein> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is holstein.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<holstein> WELCOME ubuntu studio contributors team :)
<holstein> [topic] agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011June5
<MootBot> New Topic:  agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011June5
<holstein> lets get started
<holstein> who is here?
<holstein> o/ of course..., and?
<scott-upstairs> i'm here for the meeting
<scott-upstairs> o/
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i just dropped the link to the agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011June5
<holstein> and started roll-call
<holstein> astraljava: hey
<holstein> im sure folks will sneak in
<scott-upstairs> oi, here
<holstein> and ckontros is here
<holstein> anyways...
<astraljava> holstein: Sorry for being distracted.
<holstein> [topic] old buisness
<MootBot> New Topic:  old buisness
<holstein> i have "none"
<holstein> and i think that is accurate
<falktx> hey guys
<scott-upstairs> yes, i don't think we have anything carrying over this meeting
<holstein> just thought id pose that as we wait for folks to trickle in
<falktx> my first IRC meeting, please be gentle
<holstein> falktx: welcome :)
<scott-upstairs> lol
<holstein> astraljava: no worries
<holstein> [topic] Oneiric Timeline https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Oneiric/Timeline
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Timeline https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Oneiric/Timeline
<holstein> scott-upstairs: you added this
<holstein> i think its shaping up
<holstein> scott-upstairs: you want to discuss a bit?
<scott-upstairs> oi, yes...just a rough time line, please review it and the things your responsible for/helping with and adjust as needed
<scott-upstairs> at some point (very soon hopefully) this will be a little more fleshed out and we can start maintining a better schedule for this cycle
<scott-upstairs> we can use this to gauge our process and also as reminder of what we need to do and when we need to do it by
<holstein> [action] review the timeline at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Oneiric/Timeline and adjust/help as needed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  review the timeline at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Oneiric/Timeline and adjust/help as needed
<scott-upstairs> furthermore it shows how other things are depending on the current task (if applicable)
<holstein> scott-upstairs: you mention putting it in chronologic order
<holstein> i say, if someone wants to do that, let them
<holstein> otherwise, its working for me as-is
<scott-upstairs> yes, i thought that putting it in chronological order would help understand how things should move forward
<scott-upstairs> but the colors would help people associated related items
<holstein> scott-upstairs: it wont hurt, i could look into doing that
<scott-upstairs> for example, the website tasks which would span many months but are defintely related
<scott-upstairs> holstein, but i wanted to make sure people had made their edits first
<holstein> [action] holstein to re-order the timeline chronologically
<MootBot> ACTION received:  holstein to re-order the timeline chronologically
<scott-upstairs> i thought it would be easier to do that way...or at least less confusing
<holstein> eh, i dont mind looking at it later too
<holstein> if i need to re-do some things
<holstein> anyways, i'll either do that, or ask for help with it :)
<holstein> scott-upstairs: anymore on that?
<scott-upstairs> not at this time, holstein
<holstein> [topic] Website Update
<MootBot> New Topic:  Website Update
<holstein> i was hoping kokito would be here, but he said he couldnt be
<scott-upstairs> right, but i have some information...and not all is good
<holstein> anyways, scott-upstairs, do you have links handy you want to drop here?
<holstein> or news?
<scott-upstairs> jorge will cease working on the website effectively immediately because he is taking a new job that will move him to japan
<scott-upstairs> :(
<scott-upstairs> the relatively good news is that what he has done is fairly mature and can be used
<scott-upstairs> but we will still need to do a few things however
<scott-upstairs> we need to discuss where we are going to host it
<scott-upstairs> firstly
<scott-upstairs> does anyone have any opinions on this matter?  should we continue to squeek along with canonical hosting and limited access or should we push forward and host ourselves?
 * scott-upstairs hears crickets chirping
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i think it depends
<furn> scott-upstairs: i think anything that helps the ease of use for the end user would be a good choice
<holstein> as of now,t he cannonical hosting is not working for us
<holstein> furn: hello
<scott-upstairs> right, i recently (two days ago) got access to our website sent to me so we are not relying on eric anymore for updates
<furn> holstein: afternoon kind sir
<holstein> scott-upstairs: im comfortable leaving that up to you
<scott-upstairs> however i would suspect getting other access would be as laborious and i can't do everything in this matter
<holstein> if you feel like thd current system can work now that you have access
<scott-upstairs> so i would push for hosting ourselves but i want to get input from others
<holstein> i mean, we can vote it out
<scott-upstairs> right, holstein, make an action item please about me researching what is available for hosting, i.e. price, bandwidth, storage, etc, etc
<holstein> [action] scott-upstairs to research alternative hosting plans
<MootBot> ACTION received:  scott-upstairs to research alternative hosting plans
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Do we have any measurements, like how many are accessing our site daily?
<scott-upstairs> basically i feel that unless someone strenuously disagrees with us hosting our own i'll research it and put it to the group
<holstein> scott-upstairs: you want to leave it at that for now? and vote next time with mor information?
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Might help in deciding about the hosting.
<scott-upstairs> we still have to evaluate what the costs are and if we can do that
<furn> scott-upstairs: i think hosting ourself at any capacity at this point is a good option
<scott-upstairs> aye, but would everyone agree with putting up five quid to help ;)
<holstein> scott-upstairs: thats the issue
<holstein> we need to have all the information, and go from there i say
<holstein> lets table it til we get some #'s
<holstein> let me/us know if we can help gather information
<scott-upstairs> i can ask jorge via email too about hosting, he seemed to indicate that it shouldn't be that big of a deal
<furn> could we setup a donation system on the site as a non profit?
<scott-upstairs> i think cory mentioned away to get some funds as well, perhaps from canonical?  i'll ask cory as well
<scott-upstairs> we could do that furn
<holstein> [action] vote next meeting about where the new site will be hosted
<MootBot> ACTION received:  vote next meeting about where the new site will be hosted
<holstein> im going to skip the XFCE topic in hopes that ckontros makes it back
<furn> i think at this point with so many indie devs having paypal donation buttons, the act of politely suggesting the point of donation isnt quite as audacious as it once was for free media
<holstein> [topic] Menu changes
<MootBot> New Topic:  Menu changes
<holstein> furn: not to cut you off
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i can answer some xfce changes but i agree let's wait and see if cory comes back, if not we can go with what i know
 * scott-upstairs is looking for screen shots
<holstein> scott-upstairs: personally, i like the generic menu items
<holstein> for example, when i need to burn an iso in brasero, that has nothing to do with the menu its located in
<scott-upstairs> other distros (many ubuntu studio derivatives) use additioanl submenus for audio applications
<scott-upstairs> example screenshot:  http://tangostudio.tuxfamily.org/images/stories/tangostudio-karmasutra.png
<holstein> i think some of that might happen with putting apps like qtractor in a MIDI tab
<holstein> i mean, qtractor is *not* the go-to daw, but if you want to record audio with it
<holstein> and its in the MIDI menu...
<scott-upstairs> right, but synthesisers could safely be put into a synth submenu
<holstein> BUT, the scrolling for apps in the giant menu is a mess*
<scott-upstairs> the same for effects
<holstein> scott-upstairs: agreed
<scott-upstairs> the current menu IS better because we cut some
<scott-upstairs> my feeling is to leave it as is because it's a lot of manual coding to "fix" it
<holstein> well, thats my other argument too
<scott-upstairs> if other's feel that this is a benefit then i would be happy to make the changes
<holstein> its more work than i feel like we need to take on right now
<scott-upstairs> IF, and only IF...
<furn> holstein: i think everyone can nit pick about a menu item that isnt properly placed, but considering out somewhat savvy user base having something like qtractor under midi isnt too big
<scott-upstairs> someone can clearly identify what they want
<holstein> BUT, something we should keep on the table for the future for sure
<scott-upstairs> i have it in the "release planning" wiki so it's not going away forever
<holstein> i propose we vote to put this off til the next cycle*
<scott-upstairs> seconded
<holstein> cool
<scott-upstairs> obvisouly there isn't enough support for it :P
 * ckontros is "here" but not here. Im just looking in when I break from cutting my grass. ;)
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, you want to talk about xfce?
<holstein> this is how you vote +1 / -1 / +0
<ckontros> Sure.
<holstein> ckontros: yeah, hang for a sec
<holstein> and you're next
<scott-upstairs> holstein, i'm not sure we need to vote
<holstein> [vote] hold menu re-vamp til next cycle
<MootBot> Please vote on:  hold menu re-vamp til next cycle.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<scott-upstairs> only two voiced opinions and we both said nay
<holstein> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from holstein. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<scott-upstairs> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from scott-upstairs. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<holstein> well, its official :)
 * falktx people type too fast...
<furn> hehe
<astraljava> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from astraljava. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<falktx> can I show a quick screen shot ?
<falktx> it's about this
<christof> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from christof. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<holstein> falktx: sure
<holstein> christof: hello
<holstein> i think thats the majority
<christof> hi all
<holstein> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<scott-upstairs> can ckontros go?
<holstein> [action] postpone menu revamp til next cycle (12.04)
<ckontros> Sure
<MootBot> ACTION received:  postpone menu revamp til next cycle (12.04)
 * scott-upstairs is anxious to get him while he's here
<ckontros> But wait.
<holstein> [topic] XFCE/UI Changes
<MootBot> New Topic:  XFCE/UI Changes
<falktx> basically I already have the code for this (more submenus)
<ckontros> IDK We have to become more familuar with how XFCE does menus.
<holstein> falktx: yeah, hold that til the end if you dont mind*
<ckontros> Im unsure if we can apply the same work we did in GNOME ot XFCE.
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr001.jpeg
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr001.jpeg
<falktx> holstein: k, sorry
<holstein> falktx: no worries :)
<ckontros> falktx: But your install is all or nothing correct?
<holstein> ckontros: i would imagine its quite different
<scott-upstairs> mmm, falktx that is a good looking screenshot
<ckontros> Sorry to back-track but I gotta chime in.
<falktx> ckontros: nope, let me get you a quick deb
<falktx> here:
<falktx> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/kxstudio/+files/kxstudio-menu_3.0%7Egit20110527-0%7Enatty1_all.deb
<falktx> the deb is the stuff for this menu
<ckontros> falktx: So your saying your work applies to any menuing system?
<falktx> ckontros: yes, I made it work under gnome, kde and xcfe at least
<scott-upstairs> i think that xfce follows the freesektop.org guidelines better than other DE's
<holstein> agreed*
<falktx> scott-upstairs: kde does so, it's just gnome that is the weird thing, like they were the bosses...
<ckontros> Ok. We'll look into this. Move along. :)
<holstein> yeahm, we can always put it back on the table*
<holstein> anytime really, if we find that its something easy that we can handle
<falktx> sure, I usually around if anyone wants to know more stuff about it
<scott-upstairs> i still say that just because we can do this (adjust menu structure) that we shouldn't unless there is a demand
<ckontros> We might be able to do it this cycle
<scott-upstairs> and i don't think that the demand is really there apparently
<scott-upstairs> let'
<holstein> well, its postponed as it stands
<falktx> scott-upstairs: the menu gets pretty big and it's a pain to use...
<ckontros> scott-upsrairs: I say that we at least copy our current functionality. Unless *-menu was removed last cycle.
<ckontros> ie: With the A/V submenus.
<scott-upstairs> defintely copy our current functionality for now
<scott-upstairs> let's get some of the larger issues under our belt and then see about the restructuring
<ckontros> +1
<scott-upstairs> we still ahve to migrate to xfce
<scott-upstairs> THAT will probably be a bigger challenge than any realizes still
<falktx> does the US theme works on xcfe?
<ckontros> falktx: Generally, yes. I have to make a XFWM theme. And thats in progress.
<ckontros> Feel free to move to next item.
<scott-upstairs> hmmm, no ailo
<scott-upstairs> holstein, can ckontros do his bit?
<holstein> yeah, thats up
<ckontros> Wait, wait. Im not presenting.
<ckontros> I had no plans to anyway.
<holstein> ckontros: you want to just give an update?
<holstein> or drop some links?
<scott-upstairs> can you update about the xfce stuff and you mentioned banging heads together about a few things
<ckontros> Ill happily answer any questions. :)
<holstein> OK, that works
<holstein> any questions?
<holstein> Do we have a tentative date for new -settings/-look packages?
<ckontros> I mean things are gonna move better now that my uploading is sorted.
<scott-upstairs> yay :)
<ckontros> Im gonna shoot for 1 week for settings.
<holstein> Do you need help or testing?
<scott-upstairs> i guess we need to update the -desktop package first
<ckontros> -Look will be what it is untill I get some of the art folks settled.
<scott-upstairs> then -settings and -look ?
<ckontros> So -settings will have to hit then the seed changes.
<scott-upstairs> setting first?  i would have thought we needed to update -desktop first
<scott-upstairs> wans't that what we were looking at earlier on pastebin?
<ckontros> No. Because -desktop is made from the seeds but will dep on *-settings.
<ckontros> IIRC
<scott-upstairs> this "chicken and/or egg" thing gets confusing sometimes :/
<ckontros> ;)
<holstein> ckontros: you need help/testing ?
<scott-upstairs> so hopefully before Alpha2 we should have something to test?
<ckontros> So we can get things ready in the seeds and -settings but they should push to the srchine @ the same time.
<ckontros> *Hopefully* But Im thinking things will be rocky for a month or so.
<scott-upstairs> i imagine we will need to make adjustments (possibly many as bugs are found) to the seeds and -settings
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, so the plan is replicate our current functionality as far as UI right?
<ckontros> Side note to all this, we can test upgrade paths but my official stance is new installs.
<scott-upstairs> after we get things stable, then we shoot for a new UI?
<ckontros> Correct
<scott-upstairs> cool to both :)
<holstein> ckontros: Is there a newer screenshot for the new UI prototype?
<ckontros> holstein: No.
<holstein> the other question from the agenda is Should we provide a option that looks like old UI?
<holstein> i say, if its not dirt-simple, no
<ckontros> I'll upgrade the wiki with new info soon but its slow going at this point.
<holstein> i dont think its going to be a giant departure in look/feel
<ckontros> +1 (to no that is)
<scott-upstairs> maybe someone can hack something in a ppa to help users BUT
<scott-upstairs> if we move to a new UI it should be default and we should push that
<holstein> yeah, something unoffical is welcome for sure
<ckontros> Well, it kinda will. Just AWN at the bottom as opposed the the panel across the top. But all functionality is replicated.
<holstein> [action] Should we provide a option that looks like old UI? - not officially
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Should we provide a option that looks like old UI? - not officially
<falktx> I have to pop up again here, as I am developing a replacement for *-controls
<holstein> ckontros: cool, thanks :)
<ckontros> np
<falktx> it is meant for kxstudio mainly, but I'm working to get it nicely goind with others distros too
<holstein> [topic] Documentation Updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation Updates
<scott-upstairs> holstein, can we break and address falktx 's comment first?
<holstein> scott-upstairs: you want to comment? ask for help officially?
<holstein> scott-upstairs: sure
<falktx> can I continue?
<scott-upstairs> falktx, what does the -controls update do?  what functionality?
<scott-upstairs> sure falktx  :)  you da man!
<falktx> for now the controls don't do much, as everything is already working in kxstudio ;)
 * scott-upstairs has a strat and isn't afraid to play it ;)
<falktx> but it checks for the kernel version and user/audio thing now
<scott-upstairs> faltx one thing we have tried to do with updating -controls is to author the app with the perspective of someone "updating" from vanilla ubuntu to ubuntu studio
<falktx> the more important thing about this app it's that it contain other cool sub-apps
<scott-upstairs> so this would include checking if user is in audio group currently
<falktx> a jack-patchbay, a-la patchage
<ckontros> falktx: How about we team up and refine -controls rather then have parallel efforts?
<falktx> ckontros: we have different targets
<ckontros> Like?
<falktx> ckontros: for example, It also works as a plugin host
<scott-upstairs> oi, it controls jackd, can start applciations
<falktx> it manages WineASIO too
<falktx> screenshots coming
<scott-upstairs> you can install plugins (or at least assign where to look for them)
<falktx> this is the main app:
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr002.jpeg
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr002.jpeg
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr003.jpeg
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr003.jpeg
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr004.jpeg
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr004.jpeg
<falktx> these are the 3 main tabs of it
<falktx> the first manages system stuff (jack, alsa bridge, a2j and pulse2jack too)
<ckontros> falktx: Well you mentioned "replacing" *-controls. SO if we have different targets, why replace?
<falktx> ckontros: cause I want to incorporate all *-controls functionality inside
<falktx> ckontros: once ready, I want to push it to debian too
<ckontros> Forgive me, Im just trying to understand how the targets are different.
<scott-upstairs> falktx, does it adjust jackd settings; rtprio, etc
<falktx> scott-upstairs: it works with jackdbus right now. but I want to make it work with jackd too, soon
<falktx> ckontros: well, someone once told me that having WineASIO option in a US official tool was a bad tihng
<falktx> *thing
<scott-upstairs> ckontros, i think it is currently intended to target the kxstudio audience where many things we worry about are already configure by installation
<falktx> and that the "Audio Plugins PATH" management is also not very linux friendly
<scott-upstairs> and they target different applications, including vst, wineasio, and applications that falktx has written
<ckontros> falktx: Having the option for us would be no different than Debian. We just cant include the other packages by default.
<scott-upstairs> good work by the way
<falktx> thanks
<falktx> ckontros: I know, any non-working option can be hidden if needed
<falktx> for example, WineASIO stuff is auto-hidden if WineASIO is not installed
<holstein> maybe falktx and ckontros can discuss and report next meeting?
<holstein> sounds like something we could potentially take advantage of*
<scott-upstairs> +1 or until after we get a working install with xfce ?
<falktx> ckontros: I also target jack2 and ladish in partical (more focus to it), which I don't think US is ready for now
<ckontros> Sure. So, is this a situation where you just wanna do what you do and not work directly with us on our -controls app? I can get that. I just wanna be clear.
<holstein> [action] falktx and ckontros to discuss *-controls functionality and report
<MootBot> ACTION received:  falktx and ckontros to discuss *-controls functionality and report
<falktx> ckontros: I can focus on the *-controls stuff if needed. but it's my own app, please understand
<falktx> I've been working on it since the last 4 months or more...
<holstein> as far as documentation updates, let me just action-item these entries
<holstein> [action] Documentation - Clarification: generally help.ubuntu.com is for users and wiki.ubuntu.com is for developement
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Documentation - Clarification: generally help.ubuntu.com is for users and wiki.ubuntu.com is for developement
<scott-upstairs> i was hoping ailo would be here for the documentation part but i have a structure for the help.ubuntu.com section
<holstein> [action] Documentation - The plan is to reorganize the help.ubuntu.com documentation
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Documentation - The plan is to reorganize the help.ubuntu.com documentation
<ckontros> Ill let the meeting move on. And really, this isnt my call anyway as my involvement is for UI stuff and this cycle only. ;)
<holstein> [action] Documentation We will be deprecating older pages, modifying current ones, and creating additional pages as needed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Documentation We will be deprecating older pages, modifying current ones, and creating additional pages as needed
<holstein> [action] Documentation - Is anyone else interested in assisting?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Documentation - Is anyone else interested in assisting?
<scott-upstairs> here is the proposed structure, please ignore/forgive the link top:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/IntroTutVideos
<holstein> [action] Documentation - ScottL would also like to work on wiki.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Documentation - ScottL would also like to work on wiki.ubuntu.com
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i say, shout out when you need help, and feel free to assign me to said tasks
<scott-upstairs> right, i'll confer with ailo later about this, but unless someone strenuously objects AND wants to put forth an alternative, i'm going forward soon
<holstein> [topic] New Applications
<MootBot> New Topic:  New Applications
<scott-upstairs> the basic goal would to be to make this more untutivie and user friendly
<scott-upstairs> ^^^ documentation
<holstein> yeah, im plowing on
<holstein> :)
<holstein> [action] plugins - mda-lv2, eq10q, autotalent,invada-studio-plugins-lv2, vocproc, wah-plugins, foo-yc20, amb-plugins, dssi-vst, lv2vocoder, omins
<MootBot> ACTION received:  plugins - mda-lv2, eq10q, autotalent,invada-studio-plugins-lv2, vocproc, wah-plugins, foo-yc20, amb-plugins, dssi-vst, lv2vocoder, omins
<scott-upstairs> there are several new apps i would like to include and they support things
<scott-upstairs> oh, you posted it
<scott-upstairs> is that really an action?
<holstein> [action] ladish - ladish, gladish, ladi-tools
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ladish - ladish, gladish, ladi-tools
<falktx> is ladish on 11.10 now ?
<scott-upstairs> i would like for us to move to ladish as well unless someone objects
<holstein> depends on if they are being added i suppose
<scott-upstairs> yes falktx
<falktx> cool
<scott-upstairs> they are in debian and ubuntu now
<holstein> more of a highlight than an action
<falktx> I have one thing that might interest you all right now
<holstein> [action] mudita24 - envy24control update, trying to get into Debian in time for Oneiric
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mudita24 - envy24control update, trying to get into Debian in time for Oneiric
<scott-upstairs> functionality is still sketchy from my experience but i expect it to get better ;)
<scott-upstairs> what is that falktx ?
<falktx> take a look  please - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr005.jpeg
 * scott-upstairs will talk about mudita in a minute
<scott-upstairs> can you explain the functionality falktx ?
<falktx> sure
<falktx> it checks for the current installed packages (not binaries), and displays them
<falktx> the list is hardcoded
<scott-upstairs> it seems that it duplicates some of the functionality of ladish however
<falktx> ^ because of this, we can know where docs are installed
<falktx> this way we can select an app and click "documentation"
<falktx> we can always create like "US-docs" package and point to it too
<falktx> this app also helps ladish, by providing pre-setup templates for many apps
<falktx> (anyone here knows about ladish internals?)
<scott-upstairs> falktx, i know some, can we discuss this together after the meeting?
<falktx> scott-upstairs: sure
<falktx> this can help the menu situation of menus too
<scott-upstairs> thanks, i fear other's eyes will glaze over otherwise and we're behind on the meeting
<falktx> instead of putting into the menu, let the app look for it and display it
<falktx> oh, sorry
<holstein> ok, moving on
<holstein> ?
<scott-upstairs> mudita24 is the next version of envy24control which is for ice1712 chips (i.e. maudio delta series)
<scott-upstairs> i'm hoping it goes into debian soon and then i'll file to sync with ubuntu if it isn't in time for debianimport
<scott-upstairs> okay, done
<holstein> [topic] Testing Procedures
<MootBot> New Topic:  Testing Procedures
<holstein> i dont think we have anything official to test
<holstein> so i say we hold that til next time
 * falktx looks in debian git
<falktx> not there
<scott-upstairs> right but it would be nice to have someone who will oversee testing
<holstein> i was going to ask ailo :/
<scott-upstairs> falktx, http://packages.debian.org/unstable/main/ladish
<holstein> he's really methodical about the tests we have done so far
<scott-upstairs> but he's really only been testing the kernel
<scott-upstairs> i really wanted someone to oversee all of it
<holstein> right, i was going to ask though :)
<scott-upstairs> remind people to test when builds come out
<scott-upstairs> develop testing procedures
<scott-upstairs> etc
<holstein> yeah, we need that*
<holstein> hmmm...
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, you interested perhaps in helping with this?
<holstein> astraljava: ?
<holstein> hehe
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Sure, why not. I'm not really a tester per se, but that's something I can do for contributing.
<scott-upstairs> *anything* is better than what we have currently
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, you can also look into the xubuntu testing process, they ahve some good stuff
<holstein> astraljava: cool
<scott-upstairs> i'll find the link for you later
<astraljava> Okay, that works for me.
<holstein> [action] astraljava to head up testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to head up testing
<holstein> OK, moving on?
<scott-upstairs> sure
<holstein> [topic] Libre Graphics Magazine Ad
<MootBot> New Topic:  Libre Graphics Magazine Ad
<holstein> scott-upstairs: this sounds really cool
<scott-upstairs> we have graciously been afforded a free full page ad in libre graphics magazine
<scott-upstairs> i would like to captilize on this ad for the changes in oneiric
<scott-upstairs> we have several months till then
<holstein> is there a way to make it generic?
<scott-upstairs> is anyone interesting in hellping with brainstorming, developing idea, and effecting the ad
<holstein> o/
<scott-upstairs> holstein, do you think it should be more generic?
 * holstein shrugs
<holstein> doesnt have to be
<scott-upstairs> my original thoughts were to celebrate our changes/improvements
<holstein> yeah, i can get on board with that
<scott-upstairs> to sell them as "better", which i think they are
<holstein> [action] holstein to help scott-upstairs with brainstorming for the libre graphics ad
<MootBot> ACTION received:  holstein to help scott-upstairs with brainstorming for the libre graphics ad
<scott-upstairs> right, we can push this for further meetings and try to drum up support and develop things
<astraljava> I'm not into marketing and stuff, but I can help with technicals if needed.
<holstein> [action] holstein to get libre ad timetable information
<MootBot> ACTION received:  holstein to get libre ad timetable information
<holstein> [action] astraljava to help scott-upstairs with brainstorming for the libre graphics ad
<MootBot> ACTION received:  astraljava to help scott-upstairs with brainstorming for the libre graphics ad
<holstein> cool... moving on
<holstein> [topic] Advocacy ideas
<MootBot> New Topic:  Advocacy ideas
<holstein> [action] start or find the current ubuntustudio advocacy wiki and update
<MootBot> ACTION received:  start or find the current ubuntustudio advocacy wiki and update
<holstein> [action] holstein start or find the current ubuntustudio advocacy wiki and update
<MootBot> ACTION received:  holstein start or find the current ubuntustudio advocacy wiki and update
<scott-upstairs> holstein, did you get that fedora marketing link?
<holstein> i want to have something folks can easlily link to to show folks 'the buzz'
<holstein> scott-upstairs: im not sure... would you link it again?
<holstein> so it gets counted
<holstein> i want a place where folks can add their personal blogs such as http://dullass.blogspot.com/
<scott-upstairs> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing
<holstein> i think the xubuntu team has a lot going on in this department, and im looking forward to emulating
<holstein> [action] for marketing ideas see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing
<MootBot> ACTION received:  for marketing ideas see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing
<holstein> not sure why that link didnt get counted*
<holstein> anyways.. moving on
<holstein> [topic] team reports https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports
<MootBot> New Topic:  team reports https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports
<scott-upstairs> here is the link for team reports:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TeamReports
<scott-upstairs> it's not hard to do and this would be a great way for some newer person to help the team
<holstein> scott-upstairs: i can help with this too i think
<scott-upstairs> is anyone interested?
<scott-upstairs> holstein, that would be outstanding my friend!
<holstein> i used to do it a bit for our loco
<holstein> [action] holstein to help with team reports
<scott-upstairs> cool :)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  holstein to help with team reports
<holstein> [topic] announcments - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<MootBot> New Topic:  announcments - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<holstein> * LightDM will replace GDM in Oneiric Ocelot
<scott-upstairs> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule is the new schedule for oneiric proper
<holstein> scott-upstairs: anything else in announcements?
<scott-upstairs> and as holstein mentioned lightDM will be replacing GDM
<scott-upstairs> this will mean some significant changes and will require hacking and testing
<scott-upstairs> that's it for me
<holstein> [topic] Any Other Business - OPEN
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business - OPEN
<astraljava> Which means we should have it in for alpha2, no?
<scott-upstairs> okay, gotta run, kids are getting nuts downstairs and i need to help :/
<holstein> astraljava: i would think
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, it will be ready to test after we update the seeds/-settings package
<holstein> we'll keep an eye on the updates as they come in though
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Gotcha.
<holstein> anyone else??
<scott-upstairs> by the way, i'll post minutes on this later this week
<holstein> questions, comments?
<astraljava> On other business, I intend to look into tasks.
<astraljava> ubuntustudio-desktop doesn't work for natty, nor oneiric.
<astraljava> Not sure about earlier than that.
<holstein> astraljava: i didnt try them actually
<holstein> if you want, i'll help track that down sometime
<astraljava> holstein: I'm afraid no one did.
<holstein> if its an issue of testing, and looking at a log, i can do that
<holstein> last time i tried was 10.04
<holstein> anyways... onward and upward i say
<holstein> astraljava: lets try and make sure we look at that in 11.10 :)
<holstein> anyways... if thats all..
<holstein> [topic] next meeting - July 3rd 17:00 UTC - in #ubuntu-meeting unless otherwise noted
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting - July 3rd 17:00 UTC - in #ubuntu-meeting unless otherwise noted
<holstein> [topic] next meeting chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting chair
<holstein> i dont mind to do it again, assuming im free*
<holstein> anyone else interested?
<holstein> [action] holstein to chair the next meeting - unless otherwise noted
<MootBot> ACTION received:  holstein to chair the next meeting - unless otherwise noted
<holstein> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:26.
<holstein> thanks everyone :)
<falktx> free((void*)chair)
<astraljava> Thanks, holstein, scott-upstairs, ckontros et al.!
<falktx> nice meeting, cool stuff here
<astraljava> falktx, too!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-28
<mdeslaur> FYI, security team meeting cancelled because of US holiday
<chrisccoulson> slackers
<chrisccoulson> :)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: I'm all alone :)
<zul> mdeslaur: im here to keep you company
<mdeslaur> hehe
<cjwatson> well, I'm here for TB having belatedly noticed it; dunno if anyone else is
<cjwatson> I know it's a US holiday
<cjwatson> not much on the agenda though
<MrChrisDruif> I'm not aware if the Technical Board meeting will proceed as usual. Also in Europe it's a holiday
<soren_> o/
<cjwatson> there was nothing on the TB list indicating cancellation
<cjwatson> MrChrisDruif: only parts of Europe
<soren_> Not Britain?
<cjwatson> Not the UK this year, no
 * stgraber waves
<MrChrisDruif> Holland it's every year
<cjwatson> It's moved in the UK this year due to the Queen's diamond jubilee
<cjwatson> anyway, just saying, the UK is part of Europe too so generalising holidays is difficult :)
<soren> Indeed.
<cjwatson> who's chair this week?  agenda is out of date but I infer probably stgraber
<cjwatson> unless soren's carried over from last time
<stgraber> not sure :)
<soren> That'd be three ties in a row :)
<soren> This one seems as easy as the last two, though.
<stgraber> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 28 21:06:18 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<stgraber> fine :)
<stgraber> #topic Action Review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action Review
<cjwatson> the main thing I see not on the agenda is the Mythbuntu LTS plan
<cjwatson> FWIW
<stgraber> wiki doesn't list anything, so I guess we're good there?
<stgraber> #topic Mythbuntu LTS plan
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Mythbuntu LTS plan
<stgraber> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-May/001258.html
<stgraber> we don't have quorum but I guess we can at least look at it and discuss it
<cjwatson> three is quorate
<stgraber> oh right, forgot we're just 6
<cjwatson> I've just rather belatedly followed up to the list with my thoughts
<soren> Yeah, without superm here, I'd rather do e-mail as well.
<soren> superm1, I mean.
<cjwatson> basically that I can see some possible problems but it seems a reasonable thing to try
<cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-May/001277.html
<soren> It'll be interesting to see. If it works out well, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more like this.
<cjwatson> I do worry a bit about intermediate bitrot; there is some devil in the detail.
<cjwatson> Probably not enough to scupper the idea in the case of Mythbuntu.  A flavour with wider focus might have more difficulty, I feel.
<stgraber> if we decide to allow it, we'll need to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedFlavors to reflect this as they'll by definition won't meet the "Must have a proven track record of participating in at least 2 non-LTS releases before applying to TechnicalBoard for LTS designation."
<cjwatson> Huh?  Mythbuntu has participated in considerably more than two non-LTS releases.
<cjwatson> I don't think it would be a brilliant idea to allow it for entirely new flavours.
<cjwatson> Two years is too long a period for any kind of agility in trying out new things.
<stgraber> hmm, indeed, reading it again, I didn't interpret this properly ;) For some reason I parsed that as we want them to release two consecutive release prior to an LTS, but that's indeed not what it says :)
<cjwatson> No, it was intended as "must not be total newcomers" really
<stgraber> right, so should we just continue the discussion with Mario on the mailing-list?
<cjwatson> Sounds good.
<stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Select a chair for the next meeting
<cjwatson> At least he's had a reply now :)
<stgraber> cjwatson: so I guess next chair in the list is you?
<cjwatson> Yep
 * cjwatson checks the calendar
<cjwatson> And I believe I'm even around that day
<stgraber> #action cjwatson to chair the next TB meeting (11th of June)
<meetingology> ACTION: cjwatson to chair the next TB meeting (11th of June)
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<stgraber> anything?
<soren> Not from me.
<cjwatson> Nor I
<stgraber> alright
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 28 21:21:04 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-28-21.06.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-28-21.06.html
<cjwatson> Thanks
<soren> \o/&
<stgraber> thanks everyone for attending!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-29
<roaksoax> o/
<arosales> hello
<hallyn> o/
<zul> heylo
<lynxman> o/
<smb> \o
<jimbaker> hi
<roaksoax> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 29 16:01:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is roaksoax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Daviey> hey-ol-a
<roaksoax> so let's get started
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<utlemming> o/
<roaksoax> zul talk to arosales and jamespage offline about SRU tracker
<zul> in progress
<roaksoax> zul: any updates about the SRU tracker?
<arosales> roaksoax: I am syncing up with zul and jamespage
<arosales> deciding on which tool to use
<arosales> zul or possibly Ursinha's
<arosales> so in progress
<roaksoax> arosales: awesome!
<jamespage> o/
<Ursinha> we're talking about it tomorrow :)
<roaksoax> [ACTION] zul to sync up with arosales and jamespage.
<meetingology> ACTION: zul to sync up with arosales and jamespage.
<roaksoax> zul: zul to also pull Ursinha into SRU tracker talks --> I'm guessing that's stillk in progress too
<arosales> roaksoax: correct :-)
<zul> yay
<roaksoax> alright, let'/s move on
<roaksoax>  email arosales/Daviey if interested in ubuntu-mir membership
<roaksoax> who's displayed their interes in becoming part of the ubuntu-mir team?
<roaksoax> or should the question be, have all the interested people emailed arosales and/or Daviey ?
<arosales>  I am also sync'ing up with Ursinha on blueprint management (ie tracking blueprint changes)
<hallyn> ruh roh
<arosales> I didn't receive any mails on interest for ubuntu-mir team
<Daviey> me neider
<roaksoax> alright, so people I believe you have a chance to offer yourselves and become part of the ubuntu-mir team
<Daviey> lets defer it again.
<roaksoax> moving on
<arosales> roaksoax: can we give it one additional week for follow up and then close on it next week?
<roaksoax> arosales: sure!
<arosales> thanks
<roaksoax> [ACTION] email arosales/Daviey if interested in ubuntu-mir membership
<meetingology> ACTION: email arosales/Daviey if interested in ubuntu-mir membership
<roaksoax> alright, moving on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Quantal Development
<roaksoax> Release Bugs - http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<roaksoax> bug #888123
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888123 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu Quantal) "erlang version 14.b.2-dfsg-3ubuntu2 failed to build with openjdk-7" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888123
<roaksoax> jamespage: any updates?
<jamespage> nope
<jamespage> work on the underlying issue is on hold ATM
<roaksoax> ok
<roaksoax> bug 974584
<jamespage> not mega urgent at this point in time unless someone wants to merge erlang
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<hallyn> working with debian maintainer
<roaksoax> awesome!
<roaksoax> bug #920197
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 920197 in python-webob (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] webob last stable version 1.1.1 response header bug" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/920197
<roaksoax> zul: any updates?
<zul> roaksoax: pending SRU team
<roaksoax> awesome!
<roaksoax> bug #1001846
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001846 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "cobbler fails to install with error code 1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001846
<roaksoax> we were waiting for more input, and we got it. It should be taken care of this week
<Daviey> \o/
<roaksoax> bug #880339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<roaksoax> still incomplete
<roaksoax> comments point to a might be related bug
<roaksoax> bug #993291
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 993291 in nis (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] package nis 3.17-32ubuntu1.2 failed to install/upgrade: invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/nis not found." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993291
<roaksoax> jamespage: any updates ^^?
<jamespage> yeah - I need to take a look at that still
<jamespage> so no
<roaksoax> alright!
<roaksoax> so let's move on to blueprints
<roaksoax> Blueprints - http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-server.html
<arosales> how are folks doing with getting work items documented?
 * rbasak hasn't started yet :-/
<rbasak> It's on my todo list
 * m_3 too
<arosales> The release team would like to start setting topics and tread lines by tomorrow
<roaksoax> we also need to update the above link as they quantal BP's are not yet listed
<Daviey> So.. Started going through the ones with myself as approver... and they are taking good shape.
<Daviey> Still needs a little more detail on some.
<smoser> that url above should probably have been http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ubuntu-server.html
<hallyn> Daviey: note the user-ns and device-ns ones are not yet approved
<roaksoax> ah daa
<hallyn> (I marked them 'Review')
 * roaksoax dumbd
<arosales> The list I am looking at for q for server
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=drafter
<arosales> at least for blueprints we need to get work items on, prioritize, and approve for work this cycle
<Daviey> The links i supplied in last weeks meeting are probably of use.
<roaksoax> ok, so all of us should finish writing our BP's, make sure the WI are docmented so that they can get approved and we can start working on them
<Daviey> http://ubuntuserver.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/server-team-20120522-meeting-minutes/
<Daviey> Read Quantal Development
<roaksoax> Specs currently under consideration are at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=drafter. If a spec is missing, let Daviey know.
<roaksoax> Blueprints which $user is responsible for driving to Approved state can be found at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~$user/+specs?searchtext=servercloud-q&role=assignee. Please set those which require review to Review state.
<arosales> So is EOD wednesday too soon to have the blueprints ready for approval?
<roaksoax> Yes from my part
<roaksoax> s/part/side
<m_3> yes
<Daviey> Hmm
<rbasak> Daviey: can we please get the typo fixed on ubuntuserver.wordpress.com? It's embarrassing. I don't want to be associated with that site!
<Daviey> rbasak: Do you want to drive it's migration to ubuntuserver.org, canonical hosted?
<Daviey> [ACTION] ^
<meetingology> ACTION: ^
<roaksoax> [ACTION] rbasak to drive migration to ubuntuserver.org
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to drive migration to ubuntuserver.org
<roaksoax> thank you rbasak :)
<Daviey> thanks rbasak
<Daviey> So.. Lets re-cap of the process...
<arosales> Thursday an better for folks completing blueprint work item documentation?
<Daviey> When you think your spec is ready for review, please mark them 'Review'
<Daviey> arosales & myself with significant help from jamespage and smoser will either give feedback, or Approve
<Daviey> So.. We can start that ASAP.. so please get your blueprints into a state where you can mark them Review ASAP, and we can start getting them rolled out
<Daviey> Sound good?
<roaksoax> [ACTION] To finish BP documentation and mark them Review
<meetingology> ACTION: To finish BP documentation and mark them Review
<Daviey> (ASAP :)
<roaksoax> so I guess the silence means all of us agree
<roaksoax> [ACTION] To finish BP documentation and mark them Review ASAP!
<meetingology> ACTION: To finish BP documentation and mark them Review ASAP!
<zul> suuuure :)
<jamespage> +1
<roaksoax> ok, let's move on
<arosales> it would be nice for trend line setting, and tracking if we could have the bulk of work item documentation this competed by this week :-)
<roaksoax> indeed!
<roaksoax> alright, so we also have merges to take care of
<roaksoax> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~davewalker/delta.html
<roaksoax> LINK: http://people.canonical.com/~davewalker/delta.html
<roaksoax> please take care of your merges, so go wild and have fun
<roaksoax> anyone else has anything to discuss?
<Daviey> Please feel free to open sync/merge bugs to track assignment. :)
<Daviey> ^ optional
<roaksoax> ok, so there doesn't seem to be anything else. Let's move on then
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<roaksoax> any event where we will be particupating that's coming soon?
<roaksoax> I guess there isn't
<roaksoax> moving on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<roaksoax> hggdh: o/
<roaksoax> uhmm it seems that hggdh is not around, so let;s come back t him later
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<roaksoax> smb: o/
<smb> yessir! :)
<smb> Beside of other pieces here and there, a quick test on the libvirt merge and most time spent on trying to reproduce bug 999755 without having a simple test case. This was unsuccessful but since someone posted exactly what was their reproducer I could confirm this to be no problem restricted to VMs. So now I can try out some variations locally.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999755 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel crash in rb_next doing ohai loops" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999755
<smb> ..
<roaksoax> awesome
<roaksoax> smb: anything else you'd like us to be aware of?
<Daviey> smb: Anything on the xen front?
<smb> smoser, and utlemming are already away of -virtual going away
<Daviey> going away?
<smb> away -> aware
<Daviey> Where is this documented ?
<rbasak> It was mentioned at UDS IIRC
<smb> Should be somewhere in the uds flavours track
<smoser> we were aware.
<Daviey> That should probably be documented somewhere more expressive
<smoser> but that didn't stop it from breaking things./
<smoser> smb spoke to me about it.
<smb> Daviey, where would such a place be?
<Daviey> smoser: so it's your fault i didn't know?  noted. :)
<utlemming> On our side, it is being tracked as Bug #1005551
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1005551 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "Quantal does not boot on EC2" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005551
<Daviey> smb: probably -server ML
<smoser> well, probably -devel actually.
<smoser> its not just -server
<rbasak> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-q-kernel-version-and-flavors
<smb> OK, I can check and send out a specific "warning" about that
<utlemming> I'm working on cleaning up the fallout for the build process, but it will require packaing changes and build process changes.
<Daviey> smb: thanks!
<Daviey> utlemming: if it's significant, better track it on a blueprint :)
<utlemming> Daviey: ack
<roaksoax> alright, should that be all, let's move on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<roaksoax> rbasak: o/
<rbasak> Nothing to report, although you may be interested in some ARM server news: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/29/dell_copper_arm_server/ . Any questions for me?
<roaksoax> i guess there's not
<zul> copper is shiney
<roaksoax> anotherone hgere : http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dell-unveils-programs-to-enable-the-arm-based-server-ecosystem-and-accelerate-development-and-testing-of-arm-based-applications-and-solutions-2012-05-29
<roaksoax> ok, so moving on
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<roaksoax> anyone has anything for us?
<smoser> i've got one
<roaksoax> I just want to publicly congratulate smoser :)
<smoser> rbasak, and i would like to solicit bids for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/972077
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972077 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt repository disk format has race conditions" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Daviey> Yeah... So.
<smoser> by solicit bids, i mean "any one interested in doing this ?"
<zul> lol
<Daviey> Smoser has been declared the Infrastructure team Tech Lead.  Three cheers for smoser
<Daviey> o/
<zul> yay!
<jamespage> \o/
<roaksoax> \o/
<smb> \o/
<Ursinha> :D
<jamespage> congrats smoer
<smoser> rbasak, is interested, but is time limited, and if someone else wants to take a whack at it, we have an idea of a proof of concept that we'd like to implement
<lynxman> \o/
<jamespage> or even smoser
<Daviey> Now.. Any hard questions related to Infra, please feel free to tax smoser.
<Ursinha> congrats smoser
<arosales> congrats smoser
<lynxman> smoser: you're da man
<utlemming> all praise to smoser!
<m_3> *\o/*
<roaksoax> congrats Mr. Moser
<smoser> (yes, thanks for the congrats, NOW BACK TO THE MEETING!)
<smoser> :)
<Ursinha> lol
<SpamapS> hody
<SpamapS> howdy even
<roaksoax> smoser: Open Discussion :)
<Daviey> SpamapS: just in time.
<zul> congrats captain oh my captain...my sparkle in my eye
<rbasak> congrats smoser!
<smoser> so, if anyone would want to take a look at implementing the apt client side of our proposed fix, please feel free to ping me.
<jamespage> o/
<roaksoax> [ACTION]: Anyone interested in taking care of bug #972077 to ping smoser
<meetingology> ACTION: : Anyone interested in taking care of bug #972077 to ping smoser
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 972077 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt repository disk format has race conditions" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/972077
<jamespage> Bug Triage Process - I sent an email to ubuntu-server last week
<roaksoax> alright, no other subject to bring to the table?
<jamespage> please could people have a read and provide feedback - thanks
<rbasak> I think I need to follow the process that jamespage has documented and then make a note of any bugs I get stuck on and why
<jamespage> rbasak, that is a fine way to debug it!
<rbasak> jamespage: deubg? You want me to file bugs on the triage process? And how should we triage those bugs?
<rbasak> :-)
<jamespage> lol
<roaksoax> lol
<roaksoax> alright, if there's nothing more
<roaksoax> I guess we can end this
<roaksoax> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<roaksoax> same time/place
<roaksoax> (June 5th)
<roaksoax> thank you all
<roaksoax> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 29 16:42:05 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-29-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-29-16.01.html
<arosales> roaksoax: thanks for chair'ing
<roaksoax> my pleasure
<jamespage> ttfn
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 29 16:59:44 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<arges> o/
<henrix> o/
<kamal> o/
<sconklin> o/
 * smb rushes in
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: Ubuntu-3.4.0-201.3 is out, with hdmi and jack audio support. Some of the new features (like video and audio offloading to gpu/dsp) will have to wait until 3.5rcX hits master, since we need CMA and dma-map support (already present in linus vanilla).
<sconklin> only fools rush in
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<jsalisbury> We can come back to this topic.
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-05-29 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 88 CVEs on our radar, with 2 new CVEs added this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has increased slightly slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (May  29):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - No change this cycle
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.90  - Testing; Single CVE
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-15.60  - Testing: 7 CVEs
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-21.35   - Verification; 2 stable upstream releases (approx. 111 commits)
<bjf>  * Precise  - 3.2.0-25.39   - Verification; 2 stable upstream releases (approx. 271 commits)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<kamal> o/
<ogasawara> jsalisbury: o/
<jsalisbury> kamal, go ahead
<kamal> An old colleague of mine, Dave Taht, is a member of the http://www.bufferbloat.net/ group.  Some of their work will be landing in the 3.5 kernel (codel and fq_codel - a new active TCP queue management algo).
<kamal> Dave would like to be in contact with someone on the Ubuntu kernel team to talk about configuration and usage issues for that stuff.  Shall I direct him to anyone in particular?  Is there a networking point-person?
<kamal> ..
<apw> kamal, i'd say just get him to send email to kernel-team@
<tgardner> kamal, he can start with me or apw
<tgardner> kernel-team@ works as well
<kamal> ok, two names + the kernel-team@ list   :-)    that'll do  :-)  thanks.
<tgardner> ..
<jsalisbury> ogasawara, shall I move back to your topics?
<ogasawara> jsalisbury: yes please
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
 * ogasawara had a bit of a crisis
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-kernel-distro-team-quantal-alpha-1.html
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 4 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items  ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 1 work item ||
<ogasawara> || smb         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati     || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || jk-         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || kernel-team || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 10 work items ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-versions-and-flavors || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Alpha-1 work
<ogasawara> items.  If anyone has a spare cycle, feel free to take one of the work
<ogasawara> items assigned to the team.
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> Last week we uploaded the 3.4.0-3.8 Quantal kernel.  This included an
<ogasawara> updated AppArmor patch set and misc config updates and bug fixes.
<ogasawara> Please note that Alpha-1 is next Thurs June 7.  I'll intend to upload a
<ogasawara> final Alpha-1 kernel early next week, ie Monday.
<ogasawara> We've also began providing the 12.10 kernel for 12.04.  We welcome any
<ogasawara> early adopters to plaes install, test, and let us know your feedback.
<ogasawara> It is available from the following PPA:
<ogasawara> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/q-lts-backport
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Jun 7 - Alpha 1 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<ogasawara> s/~2 weeks/~1 week/
<jsalisbury> Anything from anyone else?
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 29 17:07:51 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-29-16.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-29-16.59.html
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<herton> jsalisbury, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-30
<balloons> well.. it's time :-)
<balloons> #startmeeting qa community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 30 14:01:04 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | qa community meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> who is all present and accounted for? :-)
<skaet> hiya balloons
<balloons> hiya skaet
<balloons> lonely hearts club in here today
<skaet> ah well,  short meeting then.
<balloons> heh
 * balloons is thinking of simply emailing my updates
<skaet> that works for me.  :)
<skaet> only thing I was planning on adding was a reminder that next week is Alpha 1
<balloons> indeed.. well, I guess I'll close up and do so. I've got a couple other emails to send to the list and tweet this morning anyway
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 30 14:11:20 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-30-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-30-14.01.html
<ogra_> oh, speeddating^Wmeeting
 * xnox 0/
 * ogra_ coughs 
 * barry o/
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
 * stgraber waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 30 15:02:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
<slangasek> cjwatson stgraber barry ev jodh doko bdmurray infinity ogra slangasek
<slangasek> oh
<slangasek> hmm!
<slangasek> did I pull the wrong list? :)
<doko> fired!
<barry> it always takes 2 attempts :)
<slangasek> stupid cut'n'paste
 * xnox the lightning round is broken second meeting in a row.....
<jodh> there must be a charm to do this :)
<ogra_> doko, better than fried
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> ogra doko cjwatson barry stokachu ev jodh infinity slangasek stgraber xnox bdmurray
<slangasek> is that better? :)
<stokachu> \o/
 * ogra_ starts then 
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * merges and FTBFS fixes (pending uploads)
<ogra_> * whitmonday on ... guess ... monday
<ogra_> * bugged infinity (who then bugged webops) enough to actually get our arm live builders back up
<ogra_> * synced the new flash-kernel from debian
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * switch to livefs builds for arm
<ogra_> * test and fine bugs due to the flash-kernel switch
<ogra_> * prepare for A1 and try to get as many arm images working as possible
<ogra_> ..
<doko> - vacation last week
<doko> - Linaro connect this week
<doko> - fixing GCC 4.7 build failures (~80 and counting)
<doko> ..
<ogra_> .oO( why does he get all the candy and we dont )
<cjwatson> Packaging:
<cjwatson>  * Various random syncs and merges.
<cjwatson>  * Finished packaging OpenSSH 6.0p1, and merged to quantal.
<cjwatson>  * Spent the best part of a day bisecting GRUB to track down what turned out to be a memory leak that disproportionately affected EFI systems due to the larger disk cache in use there.  Backported the fix.
<slangasek> doko: is that 80 fixed, or 80 to go?
<cjwatson> Launchpad:
<cjwatson>  * Removed support for daily installer uploads, not used since the days of dak (bug 827965).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827965 in Launchpad itself "Ditch daily installers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827965
<cjwatson>  * Lots of work on the custom upload code (e.g. bug 827973); mostly extensive refactoring to support future changes.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 827973 in Launchpad itself "Unify custom-upload filename parsing and handling" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827973
<cjwatson>  * Arranged for imports of Debian publication records to be a bit more responsive.
<slangasek> (are we counting up or down? :)
<cjwatson>  * Landed the first part of my work on the queue API (bug 1006173), exporting the acceptFromQueue() and rejectFromQueue() methods on PackageUpload objects.  Should be deployed in a day or two.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006173 in Launchpad itself "Queue tool requires direct DB access" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006173
<cjwatson>  * Discussions of how to sanely lay out the rest of the queue API.  I have an initial version working from before these discussions, but it'll need to be upended somewhat now.
<doko> slangasek, 80+ fixed, see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=ftbfs-gcc-4.7;users=debian-gcc@lists.debian.org
<cjwatson>  * Fixed buggy Packages-arch-specific parsing (bug 917708).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 917708 in Launchpad itself "Launchpad does not recognize Arch = any-arm" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917708
<cjwatson> To do: Have a quick look at bug 1003443, since we've had a number of reports of that.
<slangasek> ok
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003443 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubuntu Quantal Desktop 21120523 failed to install: ubi-timezone failed with exit code 2" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003443
<cjwatson> ..
<barry> short week due to usa holiday; working on the lazr.restfulclient stack (wsgi_intercept, lazr.authorization, oauth) - going slow but making progress; tracked down incompatibility in py3 version of httplib2 <http://tinyurl.com/7anbxcn>; reviewed slangasek's python-pam branch; updated transition tracker (now auto-updating, thanks xnox!); first dm dputs to debian for flufl.* packages; AM assigned, working through DD process; reviewed and
<barry> accepted pep 421 - need to review patches.  todo: continue w/lazr stack; done.
<stokachu> nothing to report. but i did work hard for it. done.
<stokachu> :D
<ev> - Continued work on the tastypie port of the web API. I've put this down for
<ev>   now as it's taking longer than expected and I need to focus on client-side
<ev>   work which has a FeatureFreeze deadline.
<ev> - Fixes to our handling of unicode data through the web API.
<ev> - Helped Marcus and Tom with some terminal screenshots.
<ev> - Reviewed and merged Dmitrijs' branch to remove migration-assistant.
<ev> - Dropped migration-assistant from quantal and precise-proposed.
<ev> - errors.ubuntu.com now greys out problems which it believes may be fixed (in
<ev>   trunk).  This looks at whether the most recent published binary in Launchpad
<ev>   is the most recent version daisy has seen and whether the linked bug is
<cjwatson> barry: Is the "py3 wsgi_intercept with half its brain removed" sketch plan working out?
<ev>   marked as fixed. If all goes well here, we'll change this to hide problems
<ev>   it believes are fixed.
<slangasek> cjwatson: queue api - woot!
<ev> - Started implementing Matthew's redesign of the diagnostic settings page.
<ev>   This adds a checkbox for automatically sending reports and installing
<ev>   updates when the computer is in an unusable state (can't login, etc).
<ev> - Split libwhoopsie out of whoopsie to handle generating the system
<ev>   identifier. I'd appreciate any attention you can give the merge
<ev>   (https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/whoopsie/libwhoopsie/+merge/107562) and I'll
<ev>   return the favor. This is for:
<ev>   - Whoopsie, obviously. (Not sure if it's best practice to link or build in).
<ev>   - The preferences page in gnome-control-center, so we can have a button that
<ev>     takes the user to a webpage of all the crashes that have occurred on their
<ev>     computer.
<ev>   - The metrics database.
<ev>   - The hardware database.
<ev> - Call with Kate and others on the QA Dashboard project.
<ev> - Call with Ivanka on putting some structure to the various discussions going
<ev>   on around metrics.
<ev> - Started researching the server side apport hooks. Some trickyness around
<ev>   running them as the user who experienced the crash, given that they'll be
<ev>   fed from the whoopsie process running as the whoopsie user. Suggestions
<ev>   welcome.
<ev> - Started researching moving the Launchpad retracers onto the crash database
<ev>   retracer system, teaching them to talk to Cassandra instead of the existing
<ev>   sqlite database, and synthesizing a bug from the crash database retracers
<ev>   when one does not already exist. I've asked pitti to review my plans.
<ev> - Started researching creating crash reports from unresponsive applications.
<ev>   The plan at the moment is to hook into compiz via a new plugin (or patch the
<ev>   Unity plugin) that checks the active property of the compiz window at the
<ev>   glPaint interval, then hand off the $PID to a process that can ptrace so we
<ev>   can gdb attach and bt, handing off to apport.
<ev>   I've chatted with Neil about this, and he approves of the compiz side of the
<ev>   plan. I've started a discussion with the security team about the ptrace
<ev>   side (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1006398).
<ev> - Ongoing conversation with Francis, Robert Collins, and William Grant around
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006398 in Ubuntu "Bypassing ptrace restrictions for errors from hanging applications" [Undecided,New]
<ev>   creating an API to map crash signatures to fixed versions of binary
<ev>   packages. I need to write an LEP and largely do the work myself, but they'll
<ev>   provide guidance.
<ev> - Merged Dmitrijs' usb-creator branch to clear partitions rather than entire
<ev>   disks. Uploaded a new usb-creator.
<ev> - Webops got paged that the retracers are having ongoing connectivity problems
<ev>   to Cassandra. It looks like we have a load problem somewhere in the system,
<ev>   so I've dedicated a day to getting Cassandra state monitoring via JMX,
<ev>   jmxtrans, and Graphite up and running:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com//Ticket/Display.html?id=53325
<ev> - Helped review Martin's merge to ubiquity that moves from jockey driver
<barry> cjwatson: more or less, yes.  the only parts we care about are the httplib2 injections (hence the py3 httplib2 bug discovered), and whatever else is necessary to make that work in the context of lazr.*  i have a branch, probably not pushed yet.
<ev>   installation to ubuntu-drivers:
<ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/ubiquity/ubuntu-drivers-common/+merge/107744
<ev> - Started adding Graphite reporting to the API calls in
<ev>   http://errors.ubuntu.com.
<ev> (done)
<jodh> * boot/upstart:
<jodh>   - working on stateful re-exec blueprint.
<jodh>   - updated stateful re-exec Design doc.
<jodh>   - discussions with cjwaton and slangasek regarding upgrade scenarios.
<jodh>   - added basic JSON serialisation/deserialisation for sessions.
<jodh> * archive/mountall: testing changes prior to first upload for bug 805509.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 805509 in mountall (Ubuntu Precise) "mountall(8) man page does not list any of the 9 available options." [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805509
<jodh> â
<barry> cjwatson: (still fiddling with the insanity of wsgi on py3 though, so it may not yet be completely right)
<jodh>  
<cjwatson> barry: *nod*
<slangasek> barry: +1 to your post to ubuntu-devel asking if we can prune jockey from the python3 dependency list ;)
<barry> slangasek: less is more :)
<slangasek> ev: if errors.ubuntu.com will hide problems it believes are fixed, how do we find out that it's wrong in this belief?
<ev> slangasek: indeed, I don't want to make it ever go away completely
<ev> but there may be value in splitting that into two views
<ev> or hiding it by default
<ev> we'll see how it goes though - I'm not definitely saying this will happen
<xnox> infinity is not here?!...
<cjwatson> he's connecting I think
<slangasek> ev: right - just want to know what that view is and make sure we're monitoring it in some fashion :)
 * doko looks at the bar
<ev> slangasek: understood
<ogra_> xnox, he mailed iirc
<ogra_> being at connect it is a decision between bar and meeting ... ;)
<slangasek> jodh: oh cool, you're on top of those mountall merge requests then?  I'll clear those out of my queue
<slangasek> no infinity today, he's excused for it being 11pm in Hong Kong
<slangasek> as doko would've been, but apparently he chose IRC over beer :)
<slangasek>  * short week, memorial day holiday in the US
<slangasek>  * merge: autoconf, anacron (which now has upstart support in Debian)
<slangasek>  * fix makedev (bug #1001460)
<slangasek>  * SRU update-notifier for a regression caused by fixing the inclusion of translations, bug #1003100
<ogra_> or has beer with IRC
<slangasek>  * SRU processing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001460 in makedev (Ubuntu Quantal) "preinst fails in d-i" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001460
<slangasek>  * ported python-pam (not yet landed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003100 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Quantal) "package-data-downloader: KeyError: 'paquetes'" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003100
<slangasek>  * reviewing merge proposals from xnox
<slangasek> ..
<jodh> slangasek: I'm testing your mountall changes now.
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Spent some time testing candidates SRU for an IPv6 bug in Network Manager
<stgraber>  - Pushed some bugfixes in isc-dhcp to quantal
<stgraber>  - Prepared and uploaded SRU of isc-dhcp to 12.04
<stgraber> - SRU
<stgraber>  - Pushed the next LXC SRU, containing quite a few bugfixes and reducing the delta with Quantal.
<stgraber>  - Sponsored libgcrypt11 for stokachu
<stgraber> - Containers
<slangasek> jodh: hmm, the ones I staged in the branch?
<stgraber>  - Pushed some improvements upstream, did some more work on the API design
<stgraber>  - Kernel SRU validation for apparmor bugfix required by LXC in 12.04
<stgraber>  - Implemented workaround for conflict with dnsmasq by shipping a dnsmasq.d config file
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Finished user interface for the testcase management changes
<stgraber>  - Fixed the API and updated python-qatracker, unit test says it's all good :)
<stgraber>  - Did some other minor improvements to the DB schema
<slangasek> jodh: perhaps I should push the rest of my changes here - I was planning 2.37 to go straight to Debian unstable
<stgraber>  - Fixed remaining bits of the admin UI
<stgraber>  - Weekly meeting with QA, got some more changes to do
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Setup fortnightly 12.04.1 team meeting, starting tomorrow at 14:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
<stgraber>  - Discussed API key policy with pastebin.com, ported to new API and SRUed to everything
<slangasek> jodh: and it's just been blocked because we need plymouth updated in Debian first
<stgraber>  - Updated a bunch of bugs to go have the required SRU fields
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Continue with ISO tracker changes based on the list from QA and work items
<stgraber>  - Monitor current SRUs and get them all tested as soon as they hit -proposed
<stgraber>  - Prepare for alpha1
<jodh> slangasek: ok - i'll hold fire.
<stgraber> (DONE)
<xnox> == ubiquity-lvm-luks ==
<xnox>  * Working with mpt on the design
<xnox>  * LINK https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/AdvancedPartitioningSchemes
<xnox>  * Prototyping / testing changes in ubiquity
<xnox> == foundations-q-btrfs-requirements ==
<xnox>  * btrfs-tools sponsored!
<xnox>  * needs discussion about backporting to precise (not sure about
<xnox>    kernel version dependencies, as precise has 3.2)
<xnox> == other ==
<xnox>  * e2fsprogs sponsored!
<xnox>  * going to debconf, organised travel
<xnox>  * shepherding boost1.49 transition
<xnox>  * uploading gcc 4.7 patches to debian (~7)
<xnox>  * replying to merge request reviews...
<slangasek> stgraber: did you get my note about Debian bug #673490?
<ubottu> Debian bug 673490 in bridge-utils "serious doubts about /lib/udev/bridge-network-interface" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/673490
<doko> slangasek, I'll catch up later =)
<slangasek> doko: heh
<xnox> short...
<stgraber> slangasek: yes, will try to find some time to look at it/reply later this week
<doko> xnox, thanks for the gcc work
<slangasek> stgraber: ok - just
<ogra_> xnox, nah, stokachu was short :)
<stokachu> i win
<slangasek> stgraber: ok, just making sure you got it and I didn't mis-send
<ogra_> xnox, and he worked harder than you ! (he said so !!!)
<stokachu> hah
<bdmurray> bug triage of initramfs-tools package install failures
<bdmurray> updated bug-bot to handle live media package install failures with a full /cdrom
 * xnox is shunned again ^_^
<bdmurray> ran bug-bot against old apport-package install failures on old releases
<bdmurray> bug-bot expand logging messages to be more verbose about all the actions taken
<bdmurray> modifications to bug-bot to deal with ubiquity bug reports differently
<bdmurray> fixed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/UpdateManagerWarningForI8xx url in the ubuntu wiki which update-manager links to
<bdmurray> wrote a bug pattern for update-notifier bug 1003100 regarding paquetes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003100 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Quantal) "package-data-downloader: KeyError: 'paquetes'" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003100
<bdmurray> merge proposal for grub2 with modification to apport package hook
<bdmurray> consolidation of man-db driver installation on Live Media bug reports into bug 985636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985636 in man-db (Ubuntu) "package man-db 2.5.7-4 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985636
<bdmurray> investigation into apport-collect failure on precise - LP: #1004029
<bdmurray> email to ubuntu-devel regarding migration-assistant
<bdmurray> patch piloting
<bdmurray> Stable Release Updates team training
<bdmurray> â done â
 * xnox is the 'paquetes' bug due to switching default locale to french?
<bdmurray> heh
<slangasek> no
<ogra_> only for the desktop though
<slangasek> that would be paquets
<slangasek> this was because the translation teams for ALL the languages on the Iberian subcontinent were ambitious and translated a variable name that wasn't expected to be translated ;)
 * xnox should check upon / verify the grub2 sru
<ogra_> heh
<slangasek> (and python's Template routine bails with eparse on a variable it can't substitute)
<slangasek> any other questions about any of the above?  concerns about the switch to French locale and keyboard? :)
 * barry hides
 * slangasek ponders shutting down bug reporting against the resolvconf package entirely
<slangasek> can we have a bug pattern that matches the package name and just redirects to stgraber's blog? :)
 * xnox uses US layout on the UK keyboards. I think I will survive fr locale, as I already fight all the 'helpful' geo-location keyboard suggestions.
<slangasek> us dvorak alternate international ftw
<barry> slangasek: on an mbp keyboard
<slangasek> nooooo
<xnox> slangasek: lucky me, I used resolvconf for like ~2 years now =)))) I was happy about the switch.
<slangasek> xnox: I'm not sure how you managed while the package in Ubuntu was in such a state, but ok :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
 * ogra_ never got the hang of dvorak ... its so much work to scrape off all the letters off the keys and add them in a different order 
 * xnox ogra_ you know that you can pull out the key with the letter sticker and rearrange ? =)
<bdmurray> bug 985636
<ogra_> nah, thats cheating !
 * xnox not so much on my Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 985636 in man-db (Ubuntu) "package man-db 2.5.7-4 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/985636
<bdmurray> looks to me like people were trying to install nvidia in the live environment after installing ubuntu
<stokachu> Needs sponsor: * http://launchpad.net/bugs/974054 (oneiric is affected as well)
<cjwatson> is there any way we can make these bugs stop landing on man-db?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974054 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Oneiric) "dhcpd attempts to use /var/run/dhcpd.pid, AppArmor errors" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<stokachu> Needs guidance for getting bug more attention: * http://launchpad.net/bugs/520386 (mir: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netcf/+bug/904014)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520386 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "libvirt-bin hypervisor does not support virConnectNumOfInterfaces / unable to create domain with virt-manager using network bridge" [Low,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> they're basically never its fault
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 904014 in netcf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] netcf" [Undecided,In progress]
<bdmurray> these what?
<cjwatson> all the gazillion bugs of the general shape of 985636
<cjwatson> a bunch of them were bugs in some package management programs, which I recall fixing a cycle or two ago
<bdmurray> right so any package install failure shouldn't be about man-db?
<slangasek> man-db has a trigger, which is why it bears the brunt
<cjwatson> right, the same goes for other packages with triggers and I don't know that a simple blacklist is right
<ogra_> yeah, we should probably make that silent or dont say the package name in the output
<stgraber> stokachu: I'll look at the oneiric part of bug 974054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974054 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu Oneiric) "dhcpd attempts to use /var/run/dhcpd.pid, AppArmor errors" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974054
<cjwatson> we want to somehow figure out how to identify the actual package at fault
<stokachu> stgraber: cool thanks
<cjwatson> the problem is that due to aforementioned package manager bugs the dpkg terminal log is empty
<slangasek> heh, yes
<slangasek> can we just sunset those buggy versions of the package manager?  or SRU?
<cjwatson> I'm kind of at the point where I'd say that if the terminal log is that useless (only started/ended entries) and there's nothing else of much use, we should just unreportable the bug
<slangasek> that particular bug was reported against Ubuntu 10.10
<xnox> stokachu: the netcf / libvirt bugs affect me. Anything needed there in particular?
<slangasek> cjwatson: maybe it would be better to intercept and report it against the package manager itself, so we know if there are problems with log breakage?
<cjwatson> quite possibly
<stokachu> xnox: someone recently created a ppa for lucid so probably needs some testing
<cjwatson> bug 680328 is the one I remember
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 680328 in qapt (Ubuntu Maverick) "Many postinst scripts fail using either PackageKit, or QApt" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680328
<cjwatson> we never did get round to SRUing that to maverick, and can't now
<stokachu> xnox: i know serge is swamped but this bug is a high visibility one
<slangasek> bdmurray: ^^ do you want to take the action to get package install reports with broken logs reported against the package manager?
<bdmurray> and we might be able to find out which package manager from the history log file - if it has data
<cjwatson> so we could just bin any such bugs from 10.10; >=11.04 would be something different
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> [ACTION] bdmurray to get package install reports with broken logs reported against the package manager instead of a random package with a trigger
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to get package install reports with broken logs reported against the package manager instead of a random package with a trigger
<slangasek> bdmurray: thanks
<bdmurray> regarding the bug in question - is it possible to try and install nvidia on live media anymore?
<slangasek> stgraber: 974054> thanks for taking
<slangasek> bdmurray: is that meant to be blocked?
<slangasek> I guess you'd get inconsistent results with nvidia installed in the live env, since you can't update the initramfs
<slangasek> and would therefore get the drm driver loaded at next boot for plymouth
<stgraber> slangasek: it's roughly the same fix I uploaded to quantal and precise, just didn't think oneiric was also affected.
<bdmurray> slangasek: I believe so, I'll go back and look again
<slangasek> cjwatson, ev, stgraber: any of you recall if we're blocking nvidia driver installation in the live env?
<ev> not offhand
<cjwatson> well, there's no way to stop you *trying* to apt-get install it; I don't recall what happens though ...
<bdmurray> That's what I remember and email thread on ubuntu-devel with pitti and bryce talking about it
<slangasek> well, I guess we don't want the GUI to facilitate this bit of foot shooting :)
 * xnox as a user, jockey didn't run & didn't offer to install those in the livecd. Only on installed system. But yeah people follow 'guides' and 'tutorials' and install it byhand.
<slangasek> bdmurray: I guess maybe it's worth you following up with them then, since no one here knows for sure
<slangasek> bdmurray: did you have more bugs?  Let's look at the two stokachu mentioned and then we can circle around to any more you have for us
<bdmurray> http://ubuntu.5.n6.nabble.com/Installing-drivers-on-USB-sticks-td727548.html
<stokachu> who is the goto person for nfs?
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay
 * xnox slowly hides from stokachu
<slangasek> stokachu: I generally tend to the client side; bryce happens to look after the server side with a community hat on; but xnox can be your point of contact for nfs going forward ;)
<ogra_> stokachu, a hybrid between xnox (filesystems) and stgraber (networking) .... "xngraber"
<stokachu> sweet :D
<stokachu> nothing atm but im working an autofs case i may speak to one of you about
<xnox> what is the question about nfs?
<slangasek> whimper, autofs
<slangasek> we still have shutdown ordering bugs in that package, unless something's changed recently
<stokachu> yes... 1500+ mounts all hanging on autofs reload
<slangasek> lovely
<ogra_> ugh
<slangasek> yeah, that's one to discuss out of band :)
<stokachu> exactlyyy
<cjwatson> speaking of autofs, does anyone fancy merging our autofs5 changes into the new autofs source package in Debian?
<cjwatson> (well, "new", it used to be in lucid before the rename to autofs5, but it looks like now it's been renamed back
<cjwatson> )
<xnox> [ACTION] xnox to merge autofs
<meetingology> ACTION: xnox to merge autofs
<slangasek> xnox: thanks :)
<ogra_> wow, brave !
 * xnox is that a suicide or something. I'm not core-dev so one of you will have to review it =))))
<cjwatson> cool, thanks
 * xnox laughs
<stokachu> would firefox be considered a desktop or foundations area
<slangasek> ogra_: what's the worst that can happen if he breaks every filesystem package in the archive during his probation period? ;)
<slangasek> stokachu: desktop
<bdmurray> what? desktop!
<xnox> we used to have a separate team for it
<slangasek> bug #520386
<stokachu> ok cool b/c this is the ugliest FF bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520386 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "libvirt-bin hypervisor does not support virConnectNumOfInterfaces / unable to create domain with virt-manager using network bridge" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/520386
<slangasek> so that one needs a core-dev for an SRU, by the look of it
<cjwatson> yeah, over to desktop with an extra hard kick
<slangasek> it looks like it needs fixed in quantal first though, according to the bug state?
<ogra_> slangasek, we hire him and assing all these packages to him forever ?
<ogra_> *assign
<slangasek> stokachu: is 520386 fixed in quantal?
<stokachu> slangasek: i don't believe so ill need to double check; progress has been moving very slow on it
<slangasek> ogra_: ah, the sisyphus approach to performance management
<ogra_> :)
<stokachu> is serge in here?
<ogra_> doesnt look like
<slangasek> stokachu: nope - he's server team; you'll probably want to touch base with him directly then
<ogra_> (if you mean hallyn)
<slangasek> stokachu: once there's a fix in quantal we can certainly help shepherd it through for SRUing
<stokachu> ah, yea serge hallyn, ok ill ping him
<stokachu> slangasek: ok good deal
<stokachu> ogra_: whats his nick on irc?
<slangasek> stokachu: 'hallyn'
<ogra_> hallyn
<slangasek> he's on #ubuntu-devel
<ogra_> and -server
<stokachu> ok ill pop over there after meeting
<ogra_> and sometimes in -kernel
<slangasek> stokachu: any other bugs that want discussing?
<slangasek> stokachu: congrats on the progress on the NSS+ldap+gcrypt nightmare bug, btw :)
<stokachu> slangasek: thanks -- could not have done it without Mr Chu :)
<stokachu> slangasek: oh i did get an email from someone who i think is upstream maintainer about it, ill forward it to you
<slangasek> stokachu: ok cool
<stokachu> slangasek: sent
<slangasek> bdmurray: how about from your side... any other bugs?
<bdmurray> bug 349469 has some recent debugging data in it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349469 in debconf (Ubuntu) "debconf: DbDriver "config": /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process: Resource temporarily unavailable" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/349469
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> the common denominator seems to be aptd
<slangasek> but it doesn't make sense why the dpkg lock doesn't get in the way first
<slangasek> anyone have any theories how this could happen?
<slangasek> if not, I can follow up with bdmurray to try to formulate a plan of attack for debugging
<cjwatson> Is the dpkg lock applied before preconfiguration?
<slangasek> ah, of course it wouldn't be
<cjwatson> haha
<cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=469354
<slangasek> and apt only checks the dpkg lock, it doesn't set one of its own?
<ubottu> Debian bug 469354 in debconf "debconf: dpkg-reconfigure should acquire dpkg lock" [Normal,Open]
<slangasek> bdmurray: woo, triaged ;)
<cjwatson> but when I looked at the recent process tree, I didn't see any other apt/dpkg/debconf-like processes
<xnox> in apt there is a window of oportunity when no apt/dpkg lock exist, as a user found out, between the two resolution loops you can e.g. start synaptic and create a deadlock.
<xnox> not sure if it's the same.
<slangasek> cjwatson: which ones were you looking at?
<cjwatson> one package management process does not a lock collision make?
 * xnox this maybe old info
<slangasek> cjwatson: the process trees are being provided by the users after hitting the bug
<cjwatson> xnox: simply starting synaptic wouldn't take the debconf lock
<slangasek> so the collided process has exited non-zero by that point
<cjwatson> ah
<xnox> cjwatson: true, you need to launch a synaptic action for example.
<cjwatson> xnox: which would take the apt lock
<cjwatson> modulo that debconf bug
<cjwatson> Still, all that would do is move the lock collision somewhere else
<cjwatson> It would probably still show up
 * xnox will try to reproduce my old deadlock, didn't see it happen in a while
<cjwatson> This isn't a deadlock, it's just a failure to acquire the lock
<xnox> ok.
<slangasek> followed up to the bug
<slangasek> cjwatson, bdmurray: thanks, nice to have a prospect finally of fixing that one
<cjwatson> heh, snap
<cjwatson> except you linked to the Ubuntu bug with the same number
<slangasek> heh, sorry
<slangasek> I typed 'Debian' in my head
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<bdmurray> no that's good for me
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Python porting virtual sprint
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Python porting virtual sprint
<slangasek> as I mentioned earlier, we'll be doing a 3-day virtual sprint next month for python porting
<slangasek> June 11-13
<slangasek> so now you have it mentioned somewhere logged ;)
<slangasek> I'll send email along soon-ish with the exact plans for the hours we'll be working... but it should be less of a shift for everyone compared with the last sprint we did, because we'll run two groups with 4-hour overlap instead of moving everyone to the dead center
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<ev> https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/whoopsie/libwhoopsie/+merge/107562 - would love some extra eyes on that one
<slangasek> I was just going to mention that actually :)
<ev> it's just C, it won't bite
<slangasek> ev: why use c99 instead of $(CC)?
<ev> slangasek: $(CC) with the c99 option?
<slangasek> if you need to
<cjwatson> Yeah, you should always use $(CC) for x-compiling support
<ev> I do
<slangasek> then yeah, especially now that there's a lib, $(CC) would be a good idea
<ev> need to use c99 features, that is
<cjwatson> (not that whoopsie wouldn't need more work for that)
<slangasek> do you actually have to invoke gcc with -std=c99 to make use of c99 features?
<cjwatson> no multiarch support?
<xnox> [ACTION] slangasek to send an email about Python sprint
<meetingology> ACTION: slangasek to send an email about Python sprint
<slangasek> I thought you only have to do that to *disallow* code that's *not* c99-compliant
<ev> ah yes - I hadn't considered that. I was more thinking to hell with people trying to run it under clang
<cjwatson> we don't care about that for the rest of the distro ;-)
<slangasek> right :)
<ev> slangasek: if I run it without, it cries about variables defined in loop constructs
<ev> if memory serves
<slangasek> anyway, I'll try to send some more feedback on that merge request... would be good if others could as well
<ev> thanks!
<slangasek> it's just the addition of a shared library in C, it won't bite ;)
<slangasek> anything else?
<jodh> ev: I'm up for reviewing that too.
<ev> and I will gladly return the favor
<xnox> [ACTION] more reviews for ev's merge proposal
<meetingology> ACTION: more reviews for ev's merge proposal
<xnox> [LINK] https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/whoopsie/libwhoopsie/+merge/107562
<cjwatson> if you haven't already, you should nm -D the shared library to make sure only the symbols you absolutely need are exported
<ev> so do subscribe the team to merges. I'll try to get to yours quickly, so you're not left waiting to land branches.
 * xnox meetingology fail
<cjwatson> and in answer to your earlier question, you should link whoopsie dynamically against libwhoopsie rather than (effectively) shipping two copies
<slangasek> [LINK] https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/whoopsie/libwhoopsie/+merge/107562
<slangasek> hmmph
<xnox> LINK https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/whoopsie/libwhoopsie/+merge/107562
<cjwatson> try #link
<ev> cjwatson: ahhh, noted, thanks! dynamically link> thanks bunches for clarifying that. I couldn't find a good answer elsewhere.
<slangasek> #link https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/whoopsie/libwhoopsie/+merge/107562
<cjwatson> there's basically hardly ever a good reason to link statically
 * xnox so we test audio & irc bots during team meetings
<ev> *cough* Go
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 30 16:08:42 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-30-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-30-15.02.html
<slangasek> enough testing, time to do real work ;)
<slangasek> thanks all
<ev> lol
<ev> thanks!
<ogra_> thanks slangasek
<xnox> [ACTION] fix meetingology
<jodh> thanks
<stgraber> thanks
<xnox> cheers =)
<xnox> slangasek: apeerantly pasting links, already adds them
<xnox> we have 3 of them now =)
<slangasek> heh
<highvoltage> hi! anyone around for edubuntu-meeting?
 * highvoltage has just been speaking about edubuntu tasks with mgariepy for the last hour, so it feels like I've done all the updates already :)
<highvoltage> here's our burndown chart with todo items: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-q-edubuntu
<highvoltage> it's early days for the 12.10 cycle
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> == Artwork Changes ==
<highvoltage> * Some old wallpapers are being removed (the low-res ones in edubuntu-wallpapers), one new ladybug wallpaper is being added
<highvoltage> * A bug is fixed where we show some kde tool icons in gnome fallback session
<highvoltage> * one of the new apps we added (rocs) doesn't have an icon, bug filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rocs/+bug/1006461
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1006461 in rocs (Ubuntu) "Rocs does not have a menu icon" [Low,Confirmed]
<highvoltage> (it's known upstream as well)
<highvoltage> == Package Set Changes ==
<highvoltage> * KDE edu package selection has been reviewd: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2012-May/003816.html
<highvoltage> * Gnome: We lost gnome-games since it's not shipped in Ubuntu anymore, we're checking which of these should be included, at least the glchess game should be useful
<highvoltage> * (also under gnome): we've included gnote since we didn't have a note taking app in the last release
<highvoltage> (tomboy has been removed as a casualy when mono was removed from the CD)
<highvoltage> Gnote has some problems, we'll have to evaluate whether we want to keep it.
<highvoltage> * Upstream gnome is working on reviving pessulus though a gsoc project: http://tranzistors.wordpress.com/
<highvoltage> == Misc stuff ==
<highvoltage> * LTSP Live now uses autologin, users don't have to go through all the work of clicking on "Log in as Guest" anymore
<highvoltage> == Community stuff ==
<highvoltage> * Our website is being migrated to Drupal7, my hope it that it goes live within the next 2-3 weeks
<highvoltage> * wiki.edubuntu.org pages now redirect you straight to wiki.ubuntu.com pages (google will now rank wiki pages better and cause less confusion for users)
<highvoltage> * the edubuntu council will be working on a sponsorship process/program for companies who wish to publicly support the edubuntu project
<highvoltage> * some people have requested that we have weekly meetings again because they're easier to remember that way (heh), also for different timezones (we might be going with 12:00 UTC and 19:00UTC alternating every Wednesday, watch the site and lists for details)
<highvoltage> off the top of my head that's all I have to report on
<highvoltage> anything to add? any questions?
<highvoltage> well, that's it then, I'll be sure to announce the next meetings better :)
<highvoltage> *gong*
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: nice meeting
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: lonely meeting!
<tumbleweed> that too
<highvoltage> (well I knew that alkisg and mgariepy couldn't make it, and that stgraber could only read with one ear, so it was to be expected :) )
 * stgraber is kind of here :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: right, and as you discussed most of these with mgariepy and me in real life, there wasn't much surprise or things to discuss :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-31
 * skaet waves
 * stgraber waves
<skaet> 12.04.1 time?
<stgraber> yep
<stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 31 14:01:42 2012 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu 12.04.1 team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> o/
<stgraber> seb128 told me he won't attend this week's meeting but should be able to make it to the next ones
 * stgraber pulls the list of attendees and does some pinging
<stgraber> stokachu, arges, smoser: around?
<smoser> o/
<stokachu> o/
<NCommander> stgraber: thanks
<stgraber> right, so welcome to the first 12.04.1 team meeting
<stgraber> I "think" we now have the final team list with jamespage and smoser being the two last additions (from the server team)
<stokachu> arges is sick today so he wont make it
<stgraber> stokachu: ok, thanks
<stgraber> the idea behind this meeting is that every 2 weeks until the release of 12.04.1, we can do a quick review of what still needs to land, what's broken and not fixed yet and make sure we have resources working on these
 * stgraber tries to get LP to give him some useful bug lists
<stokachu> i do have one for the server team
<stgraber> stokachu: go ahead, while I'm digging for good bug lists :)
<stokachu> ok
<stokachu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/+bug/520386, (mir @https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netcf/+bug/904014)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 520386 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "libvirt-bin hypervisor does not support virConnectNumOfInterfaces / unable to create domain with virt-manager using network bridge" [Low,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 904014 in netcf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] netcf" [Undecided,In progress]
<skaet> stgraber, http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html has what teams still have on their commit to fix list.
<skaet> however,  there's alot that's come in that needs to be looked at.
<skaet> I know of several critical that aren't on that list.
<skaet> bug 944546, bug 751689, bug 949641
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944546 in libcommons-cli-java (Ubuntu Precise) "StringIndexOutOfBoundsException in HelpFormatter.findWrapPos" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944546
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 751689 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "ThinkPads overheat due to slow fans when on 'auto'" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751689
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 949641 in fglrx-installer (Ubuntu Precise) "Installing both fglrx and fglrx-updates results in: error exit status 1 -"/etc/init.d/atieventsd exists during rc.d purge"" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/949641
<smoser> bug 1003842
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003842 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "dnsmasq sometimes fails to resolve private names in networks with non-equivalent nameservers" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003842
<skaet> several other high ones that are new as well...
<stgraber> apparently not all of these are targeted for 12.04.1
<stgraber> or rather, none of these :)
<jamespage> sounds like that would be a good first action - review these bugs and others and target for 12.04.1
<stokachu> for mine I'd like server team to review to see if its feasible to target for 12.04.1
<stgraber> yeah, it's always easy to decide later on that they won't make it for 12.04.1 and re-target to -updates or 12.04.2
<stgraber> ideally, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04.1 should be an up to date representation of what's going on with 12.04.1
<stokachu> definately, just wanted to make sure its on the radar
 * skaet nods
<skaet> in terms of reviewing bugs,  scope should probably be wider than those mentioned above.
<stgraber> so I think it'd make sense to always first target to 12.04.1 when we see a bug that we think should be fixed for 12.04.1, then let the team responsible for the package make the decision of doing it for 12.04.1 or postponing to 12.04.2/-updates (with a reason, ideally :))
<smoser> so, to be clear, above, those bugs should have a 12.04 task and be targetted to 12.04.1 ?
<stgraber> yes
<skaet> should be a precise task, rather than 12.04 task,  but yeah.   ;)
<skaet> milestone should be 12.04.1
<stokachu> question, where do i set the task?
<skaet> target to series
<stokachu> ah
<skaet> should give you the option.  :)   please mark it to quantal too, if its known to affect that one as well.
<stokachu> gotcha
 * xnox was told not to target to quantal as the default task status tracks that.
<stgraber> if you don't have the right to target/milestone bugs, ping me and I'll do it for you, but I guess most of us have the required rights
<stgraber> xnox: it does but it's rather confusing, so I usually prefer to explicitly target to quantal (which makes the default task disappear)
 * xnox nods and agrees
<skaet> +1,  makes it easier for finding.
 * skaet is willing to help out with the series and target/milestoneing if needed too.
<stgraber> another source of bugs that we didn't mention yet but is really important for the point release is https://errors.ubuntu.com
<skaet> indeed.   Most of them should be getting bug numbers associated with them,   but its good to see imapct.
<skaet> or rather the high impact ones should be ;)
<stgraber> it'd be good to have someone from each engineering team go through that list once a week or so and make sure that any frequent crasher is properly milestoned to 12.04.1 and that someone from there team is actively working on a fix
<stokachu> curious why 2,3 off that list dont have bugs associated?
<stgraber> I can't remember exactly what we said in the UDS session, but looking at the current state, anything that crashes > 100 times a day, should probably be actively investigated at this time
<stgraber> stokachu: probably means that nobody with a similar stacktrace reported it to Launchpad
<stokachu> ok
<stgraber> so these should definitely be the priority as it means they aren't currently showing up on LP at all
 * skaet nods
<skaet> getting the teams looking at the errors.ubuntu.com list is a bit of a culture change,  and this is a good place to start that behaviour changes from.  ;)
<skaet> Other info that might be useful is that the schedule for 12.04.1 can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet> Its been updated now with the latest info from UDS.
<skaet> (and subsequent discussions ;) )
<skaet> If people want to know when we'll be having testing windows,  prior to that release,  the information for that is captured on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<skaet> in the QA columns,  look for events starting "P-".
<skaet> If anyone has any questions about it,  feel free to ping me.
 * skaet done
<stgraber> thanks skaet
<stgraber> so I quickly drafted an agenda for our next meetings: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1016424/
<stgraber> does that seem to cover what people want to discuss here, did I miss something?
<jamespage> LGTM
<smoser> i think that looks good, skaet
<skaet> stgraber,  looks fine by me.
<stokachu> looks good
<stgraber> cool, updated the google calendar event to include the agenda then
<stgraber> does anyone have something they wish to discuss at this meeting? any controversial bug or something that should be considered for 12.04.1?
<stokachu> i dont atm
<ScottK> Just as a mention ...  KDE SC 4.8.3 hit precise-updates yesterday.  We may (not sure) be able to get 4.8.4 in before 12.04.1.
<ScottK> It's sched for release June 5.
<stgraber> ScottK: what's the expected release date for 4.8.4?
<jamespage> smoser: I'm right in saying the first set of SRU updates for openstack should land in -proposed in the next week or so?
<ScottK> If we follow the timeline we managed for 4.8.3, it should make it fine.
<stgraber> ScottK: looks like you should have way enough time to have it packaged and pushed through the SRU process then
<ScottK> Yes.
<xnox> well I have requests to update ef2progs, btrfs-tools, mdadm and lvm2 for 12.04.1. I have/will prepare -sru's but I need qa assistance to test those.
<smoser> jamespage, verified your question against zul.
<xnox> (just the all/most filesystems stack)
<stgraber> xnox: do you just need testers or very specific setup? my feeling so far is that the QA team doesn't have a whole lot of time to help with SRU verification
<skaet> xnox,  are there auto tests,  or are you looking for manal.
<skaet> manual even.
<skaet> ?
<xnox> skaet: both. QA  install/upgrade tests with updated packages. both auto and some manual.
<skaet> xnox,  for install/upgrade testing,  synch with gema and jibel.
<xnox> My access to QA/kernel machines with multiple disks for RAID testing is still pending. And I don't want to push mdadm stuff to precise without testing it first.
<skaet> for the manual testing,  let baloons know the details of what you're looking for.
<stgraber> xnox: are these changes already in quantal?
<skaet> there's a slot scheduled for some precise testing in July,  may make sense to aim for that?
<xnox> stgraber: not really SRU testing, more general overall testing - it may work as an sru, but fresh .1 install or upgrade from lucid may go haywire and I don't have capacity to test that.
<xnox> skaet: yes. Ok i will discuss it with people.
<xnox> stgraber: some, not all yet.
<xnox> [ACTION] xnox to prepare a target list for fs stack for 12.04.1
<meetingology> ACTION: xnox to prepare a target list for fs stack for 12.04.1
<stgraber> xnox: ok. Make sure these bugs are targeted to precise/12.04.1 so they show up on the list
<xnox> [ACTION] xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. testing
<meetingology> ACTION: xnox to liase with ballons, gema and jibel w.r.t. testing
<xnox> stgraber: ok.
<xnox> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> stgraber, can we use the .. convention in this meeting?
<stgraber> skaet: sure
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> :D
<stgraber> btw, might be worth pointing out that we have daily builds of precise going on at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/precise/ (and other <product>/precise directories)
 * xnox yeah =)
<stgraber> skaet: do you know if QA is doing daily testing of these?
<skaet> stgraber,  I'll take the action to get an update published.
<jamespage> stgraber, are there plans for a -server daily image as well?
<skaet> which mail list should we be using between meetings?
<stgraber> jamespage: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/precise/
<jamespage> stgraber, thanks - found it at the same time :-)
<skaet> by update published, meant to say,  update on the status of whether these are all being run still in jenkins, and where to find the results.  ;)  think they are, but need to double check.
<skaet> ..
 * skaet suggests ubuntu-release
<xnox> [ACTION] skaet to get an update on the status of daily QA testing of whether these are all being run still in jenkins, and where to find the results.
<meetingology> ACTION: skaet to get an update on the status of daily QA testing of whether these are all being run still in jenkins, and where to find the results.
<stgraber> skaet: good question, mostly depend on the expected trafic I guess. Any of -release, -qa or -devel would be appropriate but -release is probably the best as it's likely of interest of most subscribers
<skaet> coolio.   and thanks xnox
<stgraber> ..
<stgraber> can everyone make sure they are subscribed to ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com?
<xnox> #agreed to target all relevant bugs to the milestone, such that https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04.1 shows a useful summary.
 * xnox just old stuff
<stgraber> I'll be posting the meeting notes for this meeting, create a wiki page and put the agenda of the next meeting there and announce all that to ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-release
<skaet> sounds good.  :)
<xnox> stgraber: well meetingology generates a good base template =)
<xnox> if used properly
<stgraber> so hopefully the next meeting will be better structured and properly announced, sorry for the last minute scheduling ;)
<stgraber> anything else?
<xnox> [TOPIC] AOB
 * xnox I guess the chair should be doing the commands....
<skaet> :)
<NCommander> We have highbank enablement stuff coming down the piple, but details are a bit light on when specifically, will get back to when they are all in
<stgraber> xnox: yeah, I only wrote the agenda half way through the meeting, so using [TOPIC] now doesn't make a lot of sense :) but will definitely use the bot for the next one
<stgraber> NCommander: ok, make sure any related bugs is targeted to precise/12.04.1 and that any other required changes (images?) is announced to -release (or at the next meeting)
<NCommander> will do so
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 31 14:54:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-31-14.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-31-14.01.html
<stgraber> thanks everyone!
<jamespage> ttfn
<skaet> thanks stgraber for getting this kicked off.  :)
<jibel> stgraber, can you add me to the list of attendees please, so I won't miss the next meeting  ?
<stgraber> jibel: I knew I'd be forgetting someone ;) sorry for that, added.
<xnox> stgraber: as I took some actions, can you please invite me for the next one as well please.
 * xnox not sure if i want/need to attend it every time
<jibel> np :)
<stgraber> xnox: invited you to the next one
<xnox> StevenR: cool thanks =)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-06-01
 * stgraber waves
 * ogra_ shores
<mdeslaur> \o
<Daviey> o/
<brendand> o/
<arosales> hello
<seb128> hey
<skaet> hiya
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jun  1 15:01:55 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<Riddell> hi
<skaet> We're now in FeatureDefinitionFreeze,  all blueprints should be up to date and reflect your team's plans for this cycle.  As of this morning there are 2282 work items in the tracker.   The trend line will now
<skaet> be reset for the burndowns.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Based on the follow up from last week,  A3 has moved to July 26.    Also changed since the last meeting is DebianImportFreeze is July 5,  per UDS discussions.   Schedules have now had the DRAFT indicator removed.
<skaet> .
<balloons> o/
<skaet> Before we go into the open Q&A session,  just want to give a reminder of some other key links.
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda  (this meeting's conventions and format are documented there).
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule (12.10 Schedule)
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock  (12.10 and 12.04.1 interaction with other teams)
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule (12.04.1 Schedule)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Key events:
<skaet> 2012/06/07 - Alpha 1 Milestone Release  (soft freeze and images available on 06/04)
<skaet> 2012/07/05 - DebianImportFreeze
<skaet> .
<stgraber> I also created a wiki page for the 12.04.1 team with links to relevant resources: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/12.04.1
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> Here are the status's received on the mail list:
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001277.html - hardware cert (brendand)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001278.html - ubuntu studio (scott-work)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001279.html - security (mdeslaurs)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001280.html - Kubuntu (ScottK)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001282.html - Edubuntu (stgraber)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001284.html - Kernel (ogasawara)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001285.html - Lubuntu (gilir)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001287.html - Server (arosales)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001288.html - Xubuntu (astraljava)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001289.html - Desktop (seb128)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001290.html - QA (jibel)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001291.html - Foundations (ogra_)
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001296.html - QA community (balloons)
<skaet> [TOPIC] Comments and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Comments and Questions
<skaet> thanks stgraber.  :)
<skaet> Comment:  NCommander, stgraber and skaet will be contact points for the A1 release next week.   Please ask questions in #ubuntu-release if there are concerns/issues as we work on the images next week.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> any one have questions from reading the mail list, or others, before I start in?
<ogra_> the linux-base MIR mentioned in the foundations report blocks A1 for armhf, would be nice to have that proceeded with high prio
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> heh,  thanks ogra_ that pre-empts one of mine quite nicely ;)
<ogra_> :)
<cjwatson> o/
<skaet> go cjwatson
<cjwatson> Not a response to status mails as such, but I'd like a volunteer (from the intersection of ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-archive) to run auto-syncs at least on Monday and Tuesday, and if possible occasionally over the weekend, since I'll be away
<cjwatson> ..
<Riddell> can that be done without command line access?
<cjwatson> Yes
<Riddell> show me how and I'll give it a go
<cjwatson> Great, thanks, will follow up with you out of band
<cjwatson> (done)
<Daviey> cjwatson / Riddell: Do you want to wiki-tize it, making it easier for volunteers in the future?
<skaet> +1
<cjwatson> Gosh, might almost think it was already
<Daviey> (The irony of auto-sync's needing a human isn't lost :)
<Riddell> should be on ArchiveAdmin if the world worked perfectly I think
<cjwatson> It *is* on ArchiveAdministration
<cjwatson> The world works perfectly.  QED
<skaet> lol
<Daviey> wow, i suck.
<cjwatson> Daviey: automation is blocked on two LP bugs, referenced from the foundations archive-admin spec for the cycle
<Riddell> nice
<cjwatson> (full automation, that is)
<Daviey> cjwatson: Sorry, i thought that the Sync section was referencing shell based syncs.. not api based ones.
<cjwatson> Daviey: I believe I nuked all of that since the old code is no longer available
<Daviey> rocking
<skaet> .. (feels like it,  on to next question)
<skaet> ogra_,  any updates on when we'll be dropping the alt installer images?  (Nick's question from the mail list).
<ogra_> ??
<ogra_> why do you ask me ?
<skaet> cjwatson then.
<ogra_> :)
<skaet> (foundations rep ;) )
 * ogra_ wont drop any alternate images for x86 :)
<Daviey> RE: Nick's question.. if they can't use the desktop installer.. the mini.iso is still being shipped.. So they can get Ubuntu on there.
<ogra_> i thought the plan was to do it asap
<ogra_> but i have no idea if that also means A1
<ogra_> surely depends on raid and lvm in ubiquity
<balloons> Well, alpha 1 is next week, I assumed the question was more for cjwatson and team.. we can drop once the installer supports everything
<ogra_> which rogresses well but i dont think is finished yet
<brendand> skaet, cjwatson - before that happens would you mind hearing a few concerns from the cert team?
<ogra_> *progresses
<gilir> o/
<ogra_> brendand, you have netboot and mini iso
<cjwatson> skaet: Not until beta
<ogra_> both will go on using alternate
<cjwatson> The desktop image won't be a complete replacement until then
 * ogra_ notes that down for the next time this question comes up 
<skaet> cjwatson,  ok.    thanks.  :)
<ogra_> ..
<cjwatson> brendand: ?
<balloons> ok, does it make sense to test images we'll be replacing?
<cjwatson> balloons: low priority
<Daviey> brendand: Can you comment on why mini.iso wouldn't cover any gaps lost with alternate?
<Daviey> seems disingenuous to ship an image for Alpha, we have no intention of being in final.
<brendand> Daviey, ogra_ - i'm not au fait with the mini.iso
<balloons> I mean, I wouldn't want to publish alt images for alpha1, if we're dropping
<Daviey> super.
<stgraber> balloons: a good part of the installer code path (partman) and the post-boot experience will still essentially be identical whether you install from alternate or from desktop, so I think there's still value in testing lvm/crypto on the alternates until desktop supports it
<ogra_> balloons, there are install methods missing in live the alternate offers
<xnox> Daviey: we have a contingency plan. until we know that ubiquity has luks/lvm and it works well we will not be dropping alternative cd.
<brendand> ogra_, i'm not entirely sure netboot is an adequate substitute
<xnox> and that piece of work was long time in the cooking and still a highly desirable wishlist item, becuase it's not easy to implement.
<ogra_> brendand, well, it uses the same installer as alternate, it just doesnt have packages in a local pool
<xnox> at any case we do not want to loose offline encrypted installation option.
<cjwatson> balloons: as xnox says - if we turn out not to be able to finish the luks/lvm work (although it is extremely high priority and we'll do our best), it would be bad to ship 12.10 with very significantly reduced partitioning capabilities
<xnox> for the desktop that is currently the alternative image
<cjwatson> we don't *want* the alternates to be in final, but they're a fallback
<cjwatson> it would be worse to have to resurrect them in a panic
<Daviey> So it should be captured that it's not definite that alternate is going away.
<xnox> alternative cd until last minute is our contingency plan.
<balloons> that makes sense, but I'm divided about it...
<cjwatson> it is the plan of record
<brendand> ogra_, so the reason we fell back to alternate sometimes was because desktop didn't work on a particular system. it would be reasonable, but not ideal to ask an end user to use alternate to install
<cjwatson> like most things, plans of record may occasionally be subject to contingencies
<brendand> ogra_, i don't think so the same can be said for netboot
<ogra_> brendand, not easily, but surely for mini.iso
<Daviey> brendand: burn mini.iso to disk, select ubuntu desktop. go home. :)
<cjwatson> It is reasonable, but not ideal, to ask users to use mini.iso
<xnox> Daviey: doesn't mini.iso require network access?
<Daviey> yah
<ogra_> yes
<cjwatson> If they were having to download the alternate ISO anyway, it's not much worse
<cjwatson> And it's the same interface
<ogra_> or a local mirror
<brendand> Daviey, we'll have a look at mini.iso
<ogra_> or a cd with a locla mirror (which makes it nearly an alternate install ;) )
<xnox> there is a usecase for isolated, non-network accesible machines.
<cjwatson> Yeah, but they tend to have stronger local admin capabilities
<cjwatson> I'm not worried about those at the moment
<xnox> mini.iso + desktop.iso for the upgrade pool = ugly
<xnox> ok.
<xnox> ..
<brendand> cjwatson, one technical thing was a recent discovery we made about interaction between ubiquity and usb sticks inserted on install
<cjwatson> Anyway, I don't think we need to get all the way into this in the meeting ...
<balloons> sounds like we could use a usecase -> iso enablement mapping
<cjwatson> brendand: That sounds like a bug we should fix!
<ogra_> ++
<brendand> cjwatson, indeed!
<skaet> .. I think.
<skaet> gilir,  go
<ogra_> balloons, that scalled manifest and is on the wiki :)
<cjwatson> Yes, we should take further stuff out of band; say -devel or -installer
<ogra_> ..
<gilir> the plan is to drop alternate for Ubuntu and all the flavors ?
<cjwatson> gilir: IMO it's up to flavours
<gilir> or are flavors free to produce 1 or more alternate images ?
<xnox> less images the better.
<ogra_> why "more" ?
<ogra_> ..
<cjwatson> ogra_: architectures
<ogra_> ah
<cjwatson> The alternate image is inherently more flexible and it's a perfectly legitimate per-flavour decision to produce them
<ogra_> yeah
<cjwatson> The "no alternate image for 12.10" is primarily a matter of Canonical paring down the set of images it has to care about
<cjwatson> i.e. Ubuntu desktop
<cjwatson> It is not an edict that applies non-negotiably to all flavours
<gilir> alternate is still usefull for us, but I didn't check is mini.iso can replace it
<Daviey> Well, it's also.. as a project.. too many flavours IS confusing.
<Daviey> err, options
<cjwatson> We have to support the underlying software for automated deployments, netboot etc. anyway
<cjwatson> Daviey: that's negotiable though
<gilir> I just want to be sure the installer for alternate will be updated and maintained :)
<skaet> gilir, I'll do a survey before B1 so we can finalize the manifest on this subject.   It will be a per flavor decision.
<cjwatson> You could make the same argument that too many flavours is confusing, but I'm pretty sure that's not something you want to say to flavours ;-)
<cjwatson> The question is a little more nuanced than ">1 => bad"
<gilir> skaet: ok, thanks :)
<skaet> more info should be known then too.  ;)
<cjwatson> gilir: yes, if necessary (and I hope it's not) I'll be doing it in my free time
<skaet> ..
<gilir> but yes, it's maybe not usefull to have more than 1 alternate
<gilir> cool, thanks cjwatson :)
<gilir> ..
 * ogra_ wasnt aware cjwatson had such a thing like "free time"
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> jibel,  new email format looks good and is useful.  :)  Thanks!  Question: bootspeed testing: has anyone started to look at why the plumbing has gone up by 5 seconds since the last runs?
 * skaet just trying to figure out if its on a team's radar or not? 
<jibel> skaet, we are struggling with hardware issue and the job is not stable yet. I wouldn't consider the results as reliable.
<skaet> jibel,  fair nuf :)
<skaet> thanks.
<skaet> ..
 * skaet was happy to see them again though ;)
<skaet> seb128,  will we be picking up a unity/compiz stack update for A1?
<seb128> skaet, no, refactoring is still going on for compiz as well as merging in one source
<seb128> things are getting in shape but they will not make it for a1
<ogra_> phew
<skaet> seb128,  thanks.
 * skaet crosses that worry point off her list ;)
<skaet> ..
 * ogra_ is happy he doesnt have to care for it for arm A1
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Riddell, when is KDE SC 4.9 Beta 1 likely to land (before or after monday).   If it doesn't land,  does it make sense to spin up A1 images?  and which images make sense to release and ask for testing?
<skaet> What's Kubuntu Active looking like?
 * skaet referencing ScottK's comments in the Kubuntu status)
<Riddell> 4.9 packages are avilable to packages but unknown if they'll be done by tuesday
<Riddell> I've not looked at Kubuntu Active, I presume it looks just the same as precise unless you know different
<Riddell> I think it makes sense to try for alpha 1 even without SC 4.9
<skaet> no,  just figured there may be some different paths/packages so wasn't sure if it fell into the category of not worth asking for testing or not,  if 4.9 didn't land
<Riddell> right I think kubuntu active can be missed for alpha 1
<skaet> if you want to try for alpha 1 with the rest of Kubuntu without SC 4.9,  that's possible.
<skaet> Can you reply to my manifest email,  and state which ones you want explicitly?
<Riddell> desktop images anyway, not fussed about dvd and alternate
<skaet> heh
<Riddell> is that a recent e-mail?
<skaet> that's what I was wanting to know.  ;)
<skaet> yup,  ubuntu-release mail list
<skaet> yesterday
<skaet> trying to nail down what we're aiming at next week.
<Riddell> ok added that to my todo list
<skaet> balloons,  ^ see comment on Kubuntu desktop images ;)
<skaet> thanks Riddell.  :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> I think that's it for the questions I had from reading through the emails.   Thank you to those who got it mailed out by scheduled time yesterday :).
<skaet> anyone else before we end meeting?
<skaet> Thanks all.
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jun  1 15:37:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-01-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-01-15.01.html
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<seb128> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
<ogra_> tnaks skaet
<arosales> thanks skaet for chairing
<jibel> thanks for chairing skaet
<Daviey> thanks skaet
<skaet> Have a good weekend.  :)
<Daviey> Yes, Good long weekend.  God save the queen.
<balloons> thanks skaet et la
<xnox> thanks to all =)
<penguin359> Did I miss the meeting?
<jussi> penguin359: which meeting are you referring to?
<penguin359> jussi: The Quantal Release meeting
<jussi> penguin359: yup, its over a good while back
<jussi> !logs
<ubottu> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<penguin359> I thought it was set at 1600 UTC.
<jussi> no idea
<Pendulum> penguin359: the Fridge calendar says 1500 UTC
<penguin359> Does it shift with DST or is it 1500 UTC year round?
<micahg> shifts with DST I think, it's consistent been 10 AM Central Time US
<penguin359> That's probably my confusion, I read the time from a static webpage and added it to my calendar as UTC (No DST).  I expect it's more correctly 1600 BST, and not UTC.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-28
<Daviey> hola
<yolanda> hi
<Daviey> zul: I think yo are chair this week?
<zul> was i?
<Daviey> adam_g didn't update the rota, and james is absent.
<zul> *sigh*
<zul> ok lets start then
<zul> @startmeeting
<meetingology> zul: Error: "startmeeting" is not a valid command.
<zul> oops
<zul> whos here for the meeting?
<Daviey> o/
<adam_g> o/
<Daviey> ?  #-startmeeting
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 28 16:03:13 2013 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<zul> hi
<zul> so lets do this
<zul> #meetingtopic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Review ACTION points from previous meeting | Current topic:
<zul> arosales: around?
<zul> if not move on to smoser
<zul> smoser: around?
<zul> #meetingtopic moser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | moser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring. Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> smoser?
<zul> awesome:
<zul> #meetingtopic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Saucy Development Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> Daviey do you want to take this part?
<smoser> smoser here....
<zul> ah smoser you are late
 * smoser can run meeting.
<smoser> is that what the question was ?
<zul> nope that action that was carried forward from the last meeting
<zul> smoser: did you reach out to juju-core and discuss the integration
<smoser> that was supposed to be marked done.
<zul> ah ok ill updat it then
<zul> smoser: can you run the Saucy development section as well?
<smoser> um... sure.
<smoser> saucy development..
<smoser> we had asked that blueprints be put in working order by last friday.
<zul> smoser: and i take that was done right?
<smoser> so if you haven't got yours into a sane state, and set them to 'Review', please do that.
<smoser> "like now"
<smoser> (/me and many others are still delenquent)
<Daviey> smoser: fancy sending a reminder to ubuntu-server ML?
<smoser> Daviey, i can do that.
<Daviey> smoser, jamespage and myself starting reviewing on Thursday.. and they were still kinda rough at that point
<smoser> thats the biggest thing for saucy development
<Daviey> We are doing another pass tomorrow
<smoser> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~davewalker/+specs?role=approver
<smoser> if you have blueprints you're planning on working on in 13.10, they should be on that list, and start woith 'servercloud-s'
<smoser> and if you have work that you are expecting to do in Ubuntu that is *not* on that list, then ideally you'd get it covered.
<smoser> i think that is all.
<zul> ok cool
<zul> #meetingtopic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Server Team Events Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> any upcoming events?
<zul> ODS is a long way off
<Daviey> None that i know of.
<zul> is our social coordinator here? jcastro?
<Daviey> I think we have almost a month of no travel?
<yolanda> only a month?
<zul> enough time to pack
<zul> moving on?
<zul> #meetingtopic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars) Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> hi plars
<plars> Hi
<zul> anything to bring up?
<plars> Main thing for today is that server images from yesterday work, but not today's
<plars> it's under investigation
<plars> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1185053 is the bug
<Daviey> plars: hmm, any detail?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1185053 in systemd (Ubuntu Saucy) "Saucy server images do not boot for 20130528" [Critical,Triaged]
<Daviey> ah
<plars> if pitti is correct, the fix might already exist for it
<plars> fingers crossed
<zul> since when do we have systemd?
<utlemming> fwiw, the cloud images for today do boot
<Daviey> since it rudely swallowed up udev.
<plars> it's not in the manifest though, is that just the source package?
<zul> ah
 * zul shakes his fist
<zul> anything for plars/
<smb> Think the boot issue might be solved soon
<Daviey> plars: thanks for the headsup
<plars> yup
<zul> ok next
<zul> #meetingtopic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb) Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> hi smb
<smb> Heya
<Daviey> How is our lovely kernel?
<zul> any updates?
<smb> Don't have much (beside fun with saucy too) not kernel , though
<Daviey> smb: How is our xen looking?
<smb> We might get some stable updates if I ever convince relevant aa's
<zul> oooOOOO
<zul> anything else?
<smb> Errr hmmm...
<smb> cannot remember. :)
<zul> good enough for me
<zul> #meetingtopic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak) Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> rbasak around?
<zul> i guess he aint here
<Daviey> smb: SRU bug?
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xen/+bug/1180396
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1180396 in xen (Ubuntu) "Xen stable update to 4.1.5" [Low,In progress]
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xen/+bug/1180397
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1180397 in xen (Ubuntu) "Xen stable update to 4.2.2" [Low,In progress]
<Daviey> smb: a decent upstream changelog would really help
<smb> Daviey, In the debdiffs
<smb> It is a bit ... err ... long
<Daviey> smb: this might need TechBoard involvement
<zul> #action smb to go to tech board for xen sru
<meetingology> ACTION: smb to go to tech board for xen sru
<zul> #meetingtopic open discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | open discussion Meeting | Current topic:
<zul> anything else to bring up/
<smb> Daviey, action for you to explain me how to get there :)
<Daviey> smb: ack
<zul> if no one has anything else same time next week
<TheLordOfTime> zul:  pulled in from last meeting, we had a brief discussion about nginx and inclusion in main and as an option on the images.  i FORGOT last week to email the ubuntu-server ML about it, and am doing that now.  Just a brief point I wanted to mention, so the people who are here and would like to comment on the discussion are aware I'm sending out the email.
<Daviey> thanks zul
<Daviey> TheLordOfTime: Looking forward to that thread
<zul> TheLordOfTime : ack
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 28 16:27:19 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-28-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-28-16.03.html
<TheLordOfTime> Daviey:  i'm just starting the discussion, not arguing points for/against it.
 * TheLordOfTime is equally split on the idea of inclusion in main
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 28 17:00:28 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<apw> o/
<bjf> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<rtg> o/
<sconklin> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/master: lp1176977 ("XFS instability on armhf under load") - cherry picked two
<ppisati> more patches that address the free space fragmentation: the resulting kernel
<ppisati> passes all tests so far, i'm waiting for user feedback and one last batch of
<ppisati> tests.
<ppisati> */highbank: lp1182637("cpu_offlining fails to run on ARM") - all the highbanks kernel that
<ppisati> we released so far are affected by this - basically, you can offline a cpu but
<ppisati> when you try to put it back, reinsetion fails and the only way to get the cpu back
<ppisati> is to reboot. Debugged till the point the cpu is plugged back, but it never really
<ppisati> starts and pick up the idle thread - i'll probably need to do a comparison
<ppisati> between the boot environment (when the cpu are added to the system via the same
<ppisati> mechanism) and this scenario.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> I'm still working on cleaning up our team's set of work items and
<ogasawara> getting monthly goals properly refelcted in the blueprints.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Our Saucy unstable branch has been rebased to the latest v3.10-rc3
<ogasawara> upstream kernel.  Saucy master-next is currently at v3.9.3.  I
<ogasawara> anticipate we'll cut over to v3.10 around the -rc4 time frame.
<ogasawara> On the phablet side, we now have Ubuntu kernels in the archive for the
<ogasawara> Nexus 4, 7, 10, and Galaxy Nexus devices.  We also anticipate an
<ogasawara> AppArmor pull request next week from the security team to get the latest
<ogasawara> AppArmor patches into these kernels.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> Thurs June 20 - Alpha 1 (opt in)
<ogasawara> ..
 * rtg is going to upload v3.9.4 saucy today
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-05-28 (7 days) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 63 CVEs on our radar, with 0 CVEs added and 0 CVEs retired in the last week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<sconklin> Status for the main kernels, until today (May. 28):
<sconklin> *   Lucid - In Prep;
<sconklin> * Precise - In Prep;
<sconklin> * Quantal - In Prep;
<sconklin> * Raring  - In Prep;
<sconklin> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<sconklin> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> Future stable cadence cycles:
<sconklin> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 28 17:06:12 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-28-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-28-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<Mafia_Alb> eeeyyy
<Mafia_Alb> :*
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-29
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 29 15:01:56 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> jodh barry slangasek ev stgraber stokachu cjwatson bdmurray doko xnox
 * slangasek starts the stopwatch
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Bank Holiday Monday and half day Tuesday.
<jodh>   - Fix for Upstart logger bug reported by stgraber now committed.
<jodh>   - Registered for DebConf13 and arranged travel.
<jodh>   - Reworked
<jodh>     lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/saucy/sysvinit/log-processes-and-open-files-on-shutdown.
<jodh>   - Reworked lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/serialise-remaining-objects.
<jodh>   - Reworking lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs
<jodh>     based on feedback from stgraber to allow some actual init
<jodh>     command-line tests to be written.
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-app-launching
<jodh>   - Raised MP for lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/libupstart
<jodh>   - Merged lp:~mdeslaur/upstart/apparmor-support.
<jodh> â«¸
<jodh>  
<barry> short week due to usa holiday monday
<barry> merges, updates, patch piloting: codespeak-lib, pytest, pyflakes3, zope.interfaces, natilus-python
<barry> bugs: lp: #1173704, lp: #1069019 (reviewed), lp: #1170017 (continuing)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1173704 in python-imaging (Ubuntu Raring) "PILcompat needs to add PngImagePlugin" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173704
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1069019 in python-apt (Ubuntu Saucy) "[software-properties-gtk] can not delete, enable or modify any software source with non-ASCII characters in the comment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069019
<barry> image based upgrades: catchup w/lifeless & stgraber.  gpg regime discussion
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1170017 in nautilus-python "nautilus-python fails to load on 64-bit systems: g_module_open libpython failed: No such file or directory" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1170017
<barry> todo: continue implementation of new gpg regime
<barry> done
<slangasek>  * short week due to Memorial Day in the US
<slangasek>  * slow week, still recovering from plane plague
<slangasek>  * reviews finished
<slangasek>  * new skype uploaded to partner
<slangasek>  * DebConf travel plans all sorted out
<slangasek>  * LPC travel plans to be finalized this week
<slangasek>  * fixed sysvinit regression (invoke-rc.d) cascading from a fix to debhelper to make sure we actually call invoke-rc.d for packages that ship an upstart job but not an initscript; this unfortunately broke builds for a day
<slangasek> (done)
<ev> - Worked with Katherine and Neil to get the NDA for https://errors.ubuntu.com
<ev>   written and published:
<ev>   https://forms.canonical.com/reports/
<ev> - Drafted an announcement of the NDA to ubuntu-devel@.u.c. Waiting on some peer
<ev>   review from Matthew.
<ev> - Created a package that purposefully fails in its postinst, creating an apport
<ev>   package installation failure report. Modified apport-test-crashes to install
<ev>   this in a fakechroot and include the apport report in its output. I just need
<ev>   to add this to the integration test now.
<ev> - Simplified the design of our Tarmac machinery. It was taking too long to
<ev>   cover all the corner cases in tearing down the world with each deployment
<ev>   attempt. Instead, we start with a deployed set of charms and the Tarmac
<ev>   instance uses the upgrade-charm functionality (that we created for use in
<ev>   stagingstack) to deploy the code from the MP.
<ev> - Finished the above and deployed it. It works \o/:
<ev>   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/daisy/trunk/revision/349
<ev> - Investigating the creation of a "What's unusual about this error?" section to
<ev>   the problem page:
<ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#A.2BIBw-What.2BIBk-s_unusual_about_this_error.2BIB0-
<ev>   Started work on surfacing common dependencies between the instances as a
<ev>   first pass. This will help us identify cases where the bug exists in the
<ev>   library, not the binary its surfacing in. Discussions with Matthew on what
<ev>   defines the "rate for matching machines" and whether this is better than a
<ev>   simple percentage of the total instances.
<ev> Blocked:
<ev> - The webops team has been sprinting in the weeks since UDS as training for the
<ev>   move to squads. This has meant that all non-critical tickets are on hold.
<ev> - We're also stuck by the Cassandra cluster not having enough free disk space
<ev>   for compaction. Tickets that create new data, such as back-population jobs,
<ev>   are on hold until this is resolved:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=61432
<ev> - Due to the way I constructed our oops.canonical.com support, we're blocked on
<ev>   further deployments of lp:errors until the RT lands:
<ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=61393
<ev> Misc:
<ev> - I attended a talk last night by Russel Winder on how Go and D stack up
<ev>   against Python:
<ev>   http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/nosql/are-go-and-d-threats-to-python/mh-7418
<ev>   I don't think it's worth the language wars that would follow a trip report,
<ev>   nor was there a lot of meat in there for the canonical-tech crowd, but I was
<ev>   surprised to see that Go's error handling is enforced by policy, not code.
<ev>   Unlike exception-based languages, you end up with the whole thing blowing up
<ev>   some distance from where the error actually occurred. Julian does a better
<ev>   job of explaining it:
<ev>   http://bigjools.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/error-handling-in-go/
<ev>   That said, it seems like an interesting enough language for server workloads,
<ev>   assuming it gets a some mature batteries.
<ev> - I'm 6 today:
<ev>   https://pastebin.canonical.com/91771/
<ev> (done)
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>   - Waiting on review of the GPG implementation plan, need to get the keys generated and signed after that.
<stgraber>   - Waiting for IS to setup the image based update server.
<stgraber>   - Fixed a couple of bugs in the image diffing tool, adding a proper test suite now.
<stgraber>   - Discussion with lifeless and barry.
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - release/cdimage
<stgraber>    - Wrote a new rebuild-requests tool to query any pending rebuild from the ISO tracker.
<stgraber>    - Started integrating this with the actual build process so we can cron that thing.
<stgraber>    - Smaller code change to the tracker to automatically mark a rebuild request as done when a new version is pushed (manually or through the API).
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>   - Pushed C implementation of get_ips in LXC API, dropped the python implementation and update the bindings
<stgraber>   - Fixed LXC in saucy to install properly on a device with network bridges available in the kernel (touch devices).
<stgraber>   - Answered some #ubuntu-phone question for the container flip, things appear to be going well
<stgraber>   - Answered some questions from the QA/desktop team on using LXC for their desktop tests
<stgraber>   - Drafted the implementation of container autostart upstream (to replace the Ubuntu-specific implementation)
<stgraber>   - Updated the build/testing server to build on saucy and add armhf builds to the mix
<stgraber>   - Various discussions and code reviews for major upstream changes needed for LXC 1.0
<stgraber>  - Merged gnupg2, installation-report, openvpn, ifenslave-2.6 and nfs-utils (waiting on testing from slangasek for that last one)
<stgraber>  - SRUed isc-dhcp to precise and lucid to allow both to be used as containers on saucy (required backporting the UDP checksum offloading patch)
<stgraber>  
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Finish self-rebuilds feature implementation on nusakan
<stgraber>  - Implement some of the remaining bits for the image based update server tools
<slangasek> stgraber: ack, will test nfs-utils today
<stgraber>  - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf)
<stgraber> (DONE)
<stgraber> slangasek: thanks
<slangasek> testing these things would be easier if someone could explain to me why my kernel is holding 1.5GB of memory for disk caches that it will never free
<slangasek> well.  a *lot* of things would be easier if that were the case
<slangasek> ev: "tickets that create new data" - does that block anything for phased updates? bdmurray?
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes
<slangasek> blast - ok.
<bdmurray> although it may not be critical as it is the count of systems that have experienced a crash
<slangasek> well, ticket #61432 already has "priority 20000", that's probably good enough :P
<bdmurray> and actually its backfilling data so not important for packages entering -updates
<ev> bdmurray: you might have some luck if you raise your ticket with the vanguard, as he was correcting my statement that we're blocked by the sprint :)
<slangasek> oh, and stokachu is out this morning, and cjwatson is off today
<slangasek> so, bdmurray:
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding backfill of bucketsystems
<bdmurray> further work on phased-updater code
<bdmurray> submitted merge proposal regarding sru-review
<bdmurray> review of slangasek's change to sru-review
<bdmurray> review of pending SRUs for errors bucket information
<bdmurray> wrote blog post regarding SRU verification
<bdmurray> release of recently verified SRUs (possibly due to blog posting)
<bdmurray> fixed apport-symptoms bug regarding ubuntu-release-upgrader (LP: #1173913)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1173913 in apport-symptoms (Ubuntu Raring) "bugreporting for ubuntu-release-upgrader is struggling on naming issue" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173913
<bdmurray> investigation into bug 1180034
<ubottu> bug 1180034 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "backend_helper.py wants update-manager" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180034
<bdmurray> trying to fix / test bug 1069019
<ubottu> bug 1069019 in python-apt (Ubuntu Saucy) "[software-properties-gtk] can not delete, enable or modify any software source with non-ASCII characters in the comment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069019
<bdmurray> review of DuplicateSignatures for saucy apport-package bug reports
<bdmurray> merged apport bug fix for bug 1184121 regarding duplicate signature for package install failures
<ubottu> bug 1184121 in apport (Ubuntu) "package kio-audiocd (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/kde4/services/audiocd.desktop', which is also in package audiocd-kio 4:4.10.2-0ubuntu1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1184121
<bdmurray> modified bugbot to deal with corrupt pyc files
<bdmurray> fixed bugbot issue with apport crashdb on cranberry
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> stgraber: image-based update server> I did update the ticket with deadline+priority, but based on what ev's said I guess this ticket is not going to move for a few weeks.  Is that holding anything up for you?
<slangasek> stgraber: and thanks for getting the ifupdown merge; I meant to ask you if that was safe for me to do or if you wanted it held off
<barry> bdmurray, doko think it's time to sru lp: #1058884 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1058884 in python3.3 (Ubuntu Raring) "Race condition in py_compile corrupts pyc files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058884
<doko> barry, I think it doesn't do any harm
<doko> another question if it will help ...
<slangasek> from the profile of that bug report, I suspect it will
<slangasek> so, +1 from me for SRUing
<bdmurray> barry: sounds good to me
<slangasek> are there any python SRUs currently stuck in the queue?  Hmm, I would check this but pending-sru report is broken at the moment - doh
<barry> yep, good, i'll get that started.  doko did i see that you got the same patch into debian?
<bdmurray> I believe there are / were
<doko> yes, there are still some 2.7 ones
<doko> or 3.2?
<stgraber> slangasek: ifupdown is always a pain to merge but I know where the problems tend to be so figure it'd be a lot faster for me to do it
<stgraber> slangasek: so we need the server and the GPG keys online and ready by end of June if we want to respect our deadlines
<stgraber> slangasek: it's not preventing developement of the other bits as we're using phablet.stgraber.org currently which has a valid SSL certificate and can be used with barry's code
<slangasek> stgraber: ok.  I'll make sure to revisit this with IS in the sync call next week, then.
<slangasek> doko: your turn
<barry> stgraber: did you fill out the /gpg tree?
<doko> - android cross toolchain (wanted to upload today, let's see if this works out)
<doko> - preparing and testing gcc 4.8.1 release, looking at http://bugs.debian.org/710220, starte
<doko> d an archive search for saucy
<doko> - binutils trunk update in the ubuntu-toolchain-r/test ppa, waiting on feedback from the ke
<doko> rnel team
<doko> - python3.3 update, consolidating maintainer scripts
<ubottu> Debian bug 710220 in libstdc++6 "libstdc++6: 4.8.0-8 upgrade breaks system_clock" [Important,Open]
<doko> (done)
<stgraber> barry: was actually hoping to hear back from you on the changes I did on the wiki. If everything looks good to you, I'll go ahead and do the changes to phablet.stgraber.org
<xnox> * boost1.53 is finished (less than 17 ftbfs packages left to be
<xnox>   resolved in Debian, libreoffice update is being prepared by bjorn)
<xnox> * merged updated fuse, fuse-utils package renamed to fuse (and
<xnox>   transition reverse-deps to the new name)
<xnox> * pushed some of ubuntu's d-i delta back to debian, and merged back to
<xnox>   ubuntu.
<xnox> * merged and uploaded ubuntu1 plugin for ubiquity, but disabled by
<xnox>   default. Can be activated with --sso flag. Prepared instructions for
<xnox>   design team review of the changes.
<xnox> * Reviewed changes to ubuntu-geonames service from Liam Young, he is
<xnox>   working on charming geonames to work on prod-stack (from IS sprint)
<xnox> * Still have ~40 TIL merges left as per MoM, which I hope to resolve
<xnox>   (ideally by syncing ;-))
<xnox> * In-progress adding logind support to ubiquity, I correctly receive
<xnox>   seat&session, yet ubiquity doesn't start-up under logind yet.
<barry> stgraber: ack.  i'll get back to you on that later today
<xnox> * Booked travel for DebConf13
<xnox> done.
<stgraber> barry: IIRc changes are mostly format of the keyrings, blacklist keyring, format change of channels.json and some changes on what's using detached signatures vs in-line signatures
<slangasek> xnox: "doesn't start up under logind" - hmm, what does that mean?
<xnox> slangasek: still investigating, ubiquity-dm terminates and doesn't give much useful output. will crank up dbus logging to see what is preventing ubiquity from opening a logind session.
<slangasek> xnox: ok
<slangasek> any other questions over the above?
<xnox> slangasek: now that we have upstart-usersessions, I wonder if ubiquity should simply be a user-job which simply starts up before unity & blocks it.
<slangasek> xnox: mmm, no idea - maybe stgraber has some thoughts on that
<stgraber> xnox: we don't have upstart usersesssion for !ubuntu
<xnox> (if that is possible, it's more of a wondering). Also since there is no pam session initiated, there is also no XDG_RUNTIME and etc. variables.
<xnox> (XDG_RUNTIME_DIR that is)
<stgraber> if we had, we indeed could ship a "start on starting xsession-init and dbus" job which would start ubiquity
<slangasek> you could theoretically split the binary package for user-session activation vs. system activation
<slangasek> though that could make for some unpleasant bit rot on the system activation case
<stgraber> indeed. I'm not sure what's the benefit though if we end up having to maintain the two (sure, the flavours would be responsible for ubiquity-dm, but in the end we'll still be the ones reviewing those and fixing quite a few of the bugs I expect)
<slangasek> right, except perhaps in encouraging the flavors to move to upstart user sessions sooner?
<slangasek> but anyway - probably a conversation for another time and place
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: any bugs you've not gotten answers on already?
<bdmurray> oh, bug 1094218 received an interesting comment
<stgraber> I can probably quickly look into what would be needed to get kde, lxde and xfce to use user sessions. I don't think it's much more than a single upstart job that starts the right *-session binary
<ubottu> bug 1094218 in lsb (Ubuntu) "lsb_release crashed with IOError in getstatusoutput(): [Errno 10] No child processes (called by teamviewerd)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094218
<barry> bdmurray: i still have a browser tab open on that one.  i haven't looked closely, but a cursory look was a bit mysterious
<bdmurray> barry: a look at the last comment?
<slangasek> it's a bit speculative
<slangasek> "there may be a SIGCHLD handling bug in python" - sure, there may
<slangasek> but the pipe code has been there a while, how has nobody hit this before?
<slangasek> barry, doko: anyway, it might be worth one of you having a look at os.popen() vs. http://bugs.python.org/issue9127
<barry> yeah, if sys.stderr is closed or otherwise unavailable, that would probably cause the crash.
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> sys.stderr being closed seems quite plausible here
<slangasek> and I guess reproducing that requires actually closing stderr, not just redirecting to /dev/null :)
<slangasek> (not sure of a good way to test that from shell)
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> barry: will you follow up?
<barry> slangasek: yeppers
<slangasek> great, thanks
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
<slangasek> ... assuming not :)
<bdmurray> slangasek: nope
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> bdmurray: ok, thanks :)
<slangasek> anything else new and exciting?
<stgraber> did I ever mention how much I hate ubuntu-release-upgrader? It's now my 5th try at building a source package. I "think" I've got all the needed packages installed on my system now...
<slangasek> stgraber: are you using bzr bd?
<stgraber> yep
<barry> stgraber: i feel your pain
<slangasek> hmm, this package is missing the bzr-builddeb integration hook!
<slangasek> did someone forget to add that when splitting from update-manager?
<stgraber> it just annoys me that this package has more dependencies to build a source package than it has to actually build the binaries :)
<slangasek> yeah
<stgraber> slangasek: it has the hook, pre-build.sh is being called by bzr bd
<slangasek> stgraber: the pre-build.sh should prompt you for all the build-deps in one go, AFAICS
<slangasek> and if it's not doing that, update the dpkg-checkbuilddeps line :)
<bdmurray> I think infinity had mentioned one was missing at the sprint
<stgraber> slangasek: it does for what's needed by the testsuite, then the source package fails to build 5min later because you also need all the build-deps apparently
<bdmurray> or he fixed one
<slangasek> looks like he did, yes
<slangasek> stgraber: oh; I was assuming you'd done 'sudo mk-build-deps -i -r' or equivalent before calling bzr bd, too :)
<slangasek> anywayz
<slangasek> stgraber: thanks for fixing invoke-rc.d :)
<stgraber> slangasek: most if not all packages I maintain don't depend on half the world just to build a source package ;)
<stgraber> anyway, I apparently just got a source package, let's see if I can build that thing and test it somehow
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 29 15:44:27 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-29-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-29-15.01.html
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<barry> thanks!
<jodh> thanks
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-30
<pleia2> CC meeting in a couple minutes, anyone able to make it from the tech board?
<czajkowski> aloha
<YokoZar> hello
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 30 17:00:23 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> #chair YokoZar czajkowski cprofitt beuno
<meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar beuno cprofitt czajkowski pleia2
<czajkowski> cheers pleia2
<pleia2> so, czajkowski sent an email to the tech board for a catch-up with them (rescheduled due to vUDS conflict), hopefully someone from that will show up in the next few minutes :)
<czajkowski> !tb
<ubottu> You can contact the technical board via email on technical-board AT lists DOT ubuntu DOT com
<pleia2> may have noticed we got a Fix Released on an important bug :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
<YokoZar> gee how helpfule
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<czajkowski> cjwatson: kees mdz soren stgraber ping
<czajkowski> YokoZar: aye not the most helpful of factoids out there
<czajkowski> I know Pitti is away
<cjwatson> Um, parallel Debian technical committee meeting which I had forgotten about
<cjwatson> I am sort of technically here but not able to pay a great deal of attention
<stgraber> lunch break here so on only vaguely around (on my cell phone)
<cjwatson> So if somebody else can represent us that would be better
<pleia2> it's just a check in, any issues, problems, comments?
<pleia2> we can also follow-up via email if there are action items
<cjwatson> Guess the only thing I wanted to ask was whether you felt there'd been a significant backlash to the decision to sunset brainstorm.u.c
<stgraber> not aware of any specific issue, we've got regular meetings, not a whole lot to discuss typically as we try to process things by e-mail when possible
<stgraber> ah yeah, brainstorm
<cprofitt> cjwatson: I have seen some folks complain, but not a large amount
<pleia2> cjwatson: there have been a couple annoyed responses, but not from people who actually used it (indeed, some actual users agreed)
<cjwatson> I think I even saw an admin agree, indeed
<pleia2> I think for anyone who is involved it's obvious that wishlist bugs are the appropriate avenue
<pleia2> cjwatson: yeah
<YokoZar> is the brainstorm code being used anywhere else on the web?
<cjwatson> But I was only seeing a very narrow sampling of responses
<pleia2> YokoZar: I hope not
<pleia2> YokoZar: it's really old and unmaintained, running on old drupal
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> I think people jump unfortunately to the wrong conculsions at times when things are closed without knowing all the facts and indeed from not even using the item being closed.
<pleia2> czajkowski: yeah, "ubuntu shuts down another community feedback mechanism" type comments are all I saw
<stgraber> I believe there are other websites based on the ideatorrent code (drupal plugin used by brainstorm) but they're running custom version of some fork of the code and probably have been updated to run on Drupal 7 (instead of Drupal 5)
 * pleia2 nods
<YokoZar> I just edited bug #1
<ubottu> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<YokoZar> I feel like I've abused my power
<YokoZar> (namely to link to mark's comment, since bug #1 itself is getting in the news)
<pleia2> alright, well I think that's all we had then :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<czajkowski> cheers thanks
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 30 17:16:35 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-30-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-30-17.00.html
<cprofitt> yes, thanks for the meeting...
<YokoZar> Thank you
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-27
<matsubara> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 27 16:00:17 2014 UTC.  The chair is matsubara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<matsubara> Hello, welcome to this week Ubuntu server team meeting!
<beisner> o/   hi
<rharper> \o
<matsubara> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> No previous (May 20th) actions to follow up on.
<matsubara> #topic Utopic Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Utopic Development
<matsubara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<coreycb> o/
<smoser> o/
<lutostag> o/
<matsubara> #subtopic Release Bugs
<matsubara> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<matsubara> (first time chairing this meeting so bear with me)
<matsubara> some juju bugs there that need triage
<matsubara> and another bug assigned to Ben with no status
<matsubara> oh, actually it's invalid.
<matsubara> #subtopic Blueprints
<matsubara> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-u-servercloud-overview.html
<matsubara> that's a 404
<matsubara> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/group/topic-u-server.html
<matsubara> this one should be the right one
<matsubara> looking good, some progress being made towards utopic.
<matsubara> If anyone wants to raise something, please do stop me :-)
<matsubara> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<matsubara> everyone, please keep your work items updated to reflect in the status.ubuntu.com page above...
<matsubara> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<matsubara> caribou, anything from you today?
<caribou> matsubara: not a bug but I've been working on improving the kernel crash dump functionality
<caribou> more precisely on networked kernel dumps
<caribou> there is a test PPA available.
<caribou> aside from that, nothing particular
<matsubara> caribou, thanks, if you can paste the link to the PPA, I'll include it in the meeting minutes
<caribou> matsubara: ppa:louis-bouchard/networked-kdump
<matsubara> thanks
<matsubara> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<matsubara> psivaa-sprint, anything from you guys sprinting?
<matsubara> moving on
<matsubara> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<matsubara> no smb or sforshee today
<matsubara> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<matsubara> Any upcoming server team event?
<matsubara> ok, moving on
<matsubara> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<matsubara> If you have anything server team related to raise, now is the time. :-)
<caribou> matsubara: details about my kdump work : http://caribou.kamikamamak.com/2014/05/20/remote-kernel-crash-dump-for-debian-and-ubuntu/
<caribou> btw, I created a blueprint for this but now I realize that it will not be required
<caribou> as the enhancement will come in Debian first
<matsubara> thanks caribou. I'll make sure to publish that as well. Is there any action you need someone in the server team to take related to that?
<caribou> no not atm
<matsubara> caribou, ok. thanks for the update!
<matsubara> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<matsubara> Next meeting on the 3rd of June, same bat time. Thanks for joining.
<arosales> matsubara, thanks for charing :-)
<gnuoy> thanks matsubara
<caribou> thank matsubara
<matsubara> you're welcome.
<matsubara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 27 16:16:49 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-27-16.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-29
<shadeslayer> yofel: ScottK Riddell jussi meeting time
<yofel> o/
<shadeslayer> Riddell: ScottK poke poke
<jussi> shadeslayer: I assume you are chairing/running this meeting?
<shadeslayer> I guess
<shadeslayer> jussi: yofel do you know if we need quorum for membership
<shadeslayer> and whether we have quorum with 3 folks
<yofel> AFAIK it's the same as always, +3, and 0 -1
<jussi> shadeslayer: no, it can be handled the rest on the list, we just need to ask all the right questions
<shadeslayer> yofel: but then it could be split +3/-3
<shadeslayer> ( though I doubt it )
<jussi> shadeslayer: lets get it underway
<yofel> shadeslayer: no, a single -1 already counts as no
<shadeslayer> ah ok
<shadeslayer> cool
<shadeslayer> alrighty then, lets start
<shadeslayer> we're primarily here for sgclark's Kubuntu membership request
<shadeslayer> wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScarlettGatelyClark
<shadeslayer> sgclark: go ahead and introduce yourself, what you've been doing in Kubuntu :)
<sgclark> Hello! I started with documentation and quickly moved into packaging when Riddell showed me the ropes.
<sgclark> I absolutely love packaging and plan to learn more including bug squashing and hopefully some developing
<sgclark> I have found Kubuntu a perfect home to me, everyone has been super helpful and friendly.
<sgclark> That is about it, if you have questions ask away
<shadeslayer> sgclark: what do you NOT like about Kubuntu :P
<sgclark> I don't have to compile everything to get it to work! (coming from gentoo) :)
<shadeslayer> hah
<sgclark> I love to compile stuff
<jussi> sgclark: which areas specifically do you see need for improvement, and how do you intend to contribute to fix these ?
 * shadeslayer is more interested in the first part
<sgclark> probably visibility (social aspect) bug squashing. I perfer the devel side of thing and would love to learn the latter, I will also try to get back and assist socially sharing our latest and greatest news.
<jussi> yofel: yo got things to ask?
<yofel> sgclark: what was your worst community experience so far and how would you fix it?
<shadeslayer> sgclark: once done with answering ^^ , do you like Doctor Who? Thoughts on Peter Capaldi as the next doctor?
<sgclark> To be honest I have not had one. I tend to avoid conflict. I say what is on my mind and if it is not liked resolve the matter by the rules outlined within that community. But nothing has come to that as of yet.
<jussi> shadeslayer: ! :D
<yofel> ack
<shadeslayer> jussi: that should really be outlined in the policy
<sgclark> Yes I love Doctor Who. I don't know him as an actor but I am sure he will be great
<shadeslayer> love for Kubuntu and Doctor Who
<shadeslayer> sgclark: best doctor so far?
<sgclark> Tom Baker! loved Matt Smith too, well all of them lol
<sgclark> yeah I am old
 * shadeslayer hasn't seen the old episodes, I feel out doctor who'd
<shadeslayer> ;)
<shadeslayer> ovidiu-florin: you had a question
<jussi> I think maybe I should remove myself from the KC (as someone who does not share this appreciation...)
<jussi> :P
<shadeslayer> :O
<jussi> anyway
<yofel> hey, we love everyone! You can wear a Fez as compensation :P
<jussi> back to actually quizzing sgclark
<shadeslayer> ^^ that's enough for me ;)
<jussi> :D
<shadeslayer> btw I'm done with questions
 * sgclark is ready
<shadeslayer> if there are no questions in the next 5 minutes can we proceed to vote
 * yofel done too, you asked the rest
<yofel> ovidiu-florin: ?
<jussi> sgclark: what has been the high point of your contributions to kubuntu so far?
<sgclark> I really love packaging and toying around with all of the new frameworks stuff
<sgclark> that is my favortites, but all of it really, I am a sponge for knowledge
<shadeslayer> let's vote?
<jussi> yeah, ok
<yofel> fine
<shadeslayer> +1 from me, packaging contributions for Frameworks 5 have been awesome, so far my interactions with sgclark have always been positive, she will make an excellent addition to the Kubuntu Membership
<jussi> yes, I agree +1 from me
<yofel> +1 from me for doing a great job contributing to the docs, being and enthusiastic packager and even staying with us after my confusing guiding and doing a couple merges ;)
<shadeslayer> jussi: yofel so does that mean we can bestow kubuntu membership? :)
<yofel> no, we need all votes on the ML
<shadeslayer> aha cool
<sgclark> thanks everyone
<jussi> shadeslayer: I think we need to have a majority, so that means one more +1
<shadeslayer> sgclark: voting will continue on the ML
<sgclark> ok thank you
<yofel> jr and valorie posted on the wiki though so I guess they're +1, so it depends on Scott
<yofel> jussi: IIRC it's +3 and nobody against
<ovidiu-florin> sorry for the MIA, I was retained.
<ovidiu-florin> I wanted to ask sgclark why she chose Kubuntu over other distros?
<shadeslayer> so, I've sent an email to the mailing list
<shadeslayer> meeting is now finished :)
<sgclark> I chose Kubuntu because of the freindlyness of everyone and the willingness to teach a beginner. Plus it is a great OS!
<jussi> sgclark: btw, have you signed the CoC ?
<jussi>  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct
<sgclark> yes https://launchpad.net/~scarlett-7
<Riddell> hi
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-06-01
<s-fox> Who is here for the meeting? coffeecat Iowan howefield
<Iowan> o/
<howefield> hello s-fox :)
<coffeecat> o/
<s-fox> Would i be right in thinking i saw something from elfy and iowan about not being able to make it?
<coffeecat> Elfy already mentioned that he won't be able to be here.
<coffeecat> yes
<s-fox> okay
<Iowan> Hot off the road - driveway 5 minutes ago.
<s-fox> any news on cariboo?
<howefield> not that I#m aware of.
<s-fox> okay, i guess i'll give him a few minutes
<s-fox> are we all well?
<howefield> lol
<Iowan> HEalthy here!
<s-fox> alright, i guess i'll start the meeting
<s-fox> #startmeeting Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jun  1 20:02:58 2014 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting | Current topic:
<s-fox> #chair s-fox
<meetingology> Current chairs: s-fox
<s-fox> #voters s-fox Iowan coffeecat Iowan howefield
<meetingology> Current voters: Iowan coffeecat howefield s-fox
<s-fox> Okay, nothing on the agenda. so i guess the main thing to go over is the todo list elfy posted last week
<s-fox> I think the list we have now is pretty much everything now, so thank you for putting it together
<s-fox> I haven't been online much this week, but it looks like we still need to put up a thread for each of the items
<s-fox> I can do that tomorrow, unless anyone wants to do it sooner.
<s-fox> Any objections ?
<Iowan> I can't find 'em ATM, but i remember some of the items looked interesting...
<Iowan> No objections.
<howefield> Iowan
<howefield> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2225770
<s-fox> here is the thread - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2225770
<s-fox> it got stuck
<s-fox> #action s-fox to create the starter thread for each of the topics
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to create the starter thread for each of the topics
<Iowan> probably why I couldn't fine it - who reads stickies? ;)
<s-fox> Does anyone have anything else to bring up in the meeting?
<Iowan> nothing here.
<howefield> nothing for public consumption from me.
<coffeecat> nothing
<s-fox> Okay, well I will be around properly next week. The docs gave me some meds and i am no longer dying :)
<s-fox> sorry, new
<howefield> good to hear.
<howefield> about no longer dying, I mean.
<Iowan> Good news - finding replacement admins is sSUCH a chore ;)
<s-fox> lol
<howefield> you'd be surprised.
<s-fox> oh, i saw something on the ml about someone wanting unbanning.
<s-fox> has that been resolved, or is it still ongoing?
<coffeecat> that was a recurra-troll if I'm thinking about the same one. At least 4 previous alter egos.
<Iowan> Thought howefield got that one...
<s-fox> okay, great
<Iowan> (not the recurratroll)
<howefield> if that is matt114 you refer to, finished as far as I am concerned.
<coffeecat> yep - previous was 64bitiso going back to someone we banned who kept trolling at about the time of the forum coming up again after the security breach.
<howefield> that's the one.
<s-fox> well, glad it's been sorted.
<s-fox> I guess one of the few things we have to do this month deciding who will do what
<s-fox> who fancies the report?  i don't mind doing it
<s-fox> haven't done it for a little while
<Iowan> No argument!
<s-fox> #action s-fox to do the report
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to do the report
<s-fox> how are we looking for the archiving at the moment?
<s-fox> are we good, or is it outstanding?
<coffeecat> archiving?
<s-fox> yeah, the old threads
<Iowan> Have we done that since re-install?
<s-fox> i'm not certain
<coffeecat> That's something Elfy seems to be interested in. Can't say I it floats my boat whatsoever.
<s-fox> Maybe we should talk more about  it in the threads i'm going to create in the morning
<s-fox> i am 99% sure it is one of the items
<howefield> makes sense.
<Iowan> +1
<coffeecat> yes it's in the list. At the top! :)
<s-fox> Okay, lets carry on
<s-fox> Any other tasks that we try to alternate?
<s-fox> the ml to me seems the one that needs to the most "effort"
<Iowan> Pretty much everything else is tag-team
<coffeecat> I *think* everything else -ml, RC etc - is first-come first do.
<s-fox> *report*
<s-fox> okay, i am ready to end it and go back to bed :)
<howefield> nighty night.
<s-fox> good to end it?
<Iowan> YEp!
<coffeecat> +1
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jun  1 20:24:41 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-06-01-20.02.moin.txt
<s-fox> Thank you for coming all :)
<Iowan> Thank YOU for chairing!
<coffeecat> thanks s-fox
<howefield> thanks for chairing s-fox
<s-fox> no issue, kinda straight forward and not *that much* to go over
<s-fox> anway, nighty night
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-25
<Kilos> genii  helloooo
 * genii slides Kilos a fresh coffee
<Kilos> yay ty so much
<Kilos> :D
<genii> Anytime
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-26
<jamespage> o/
<beisner> o/ hi
<rbasak> o/
<smb> \o
<jamespage> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 26 16:00:43 2015 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> apparently none so that's good
<jamespage> #topic wily development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: wily development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<matsubara> o/
<jamespage> apparently we're right ontop of feature definition freeze, which means we should all be working to get our blueprints into shape so that we know what 15.10 is going to mean in terms of new stuff
<rharper> o/
<jamespage> (28th May)
<jamespage> I'm assuming everyone is familiar with the blueprint template?
<jamespage> if not
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueprintSpec
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jamespage> hmm that appears to be empty
<jamespage> are we expecting that report to work?
 * jamespage shrugs
<arges> o//
<jamespage> anyway - not reviewing blueprints today due to point in cycle
<jamespage> hey arges!
<arges> sorry i'm late
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<jamespage> no caribou today
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (matsubara)
<jamespage> matsubara, you're up :)
<matsubara> Some trusty smoke tests failed due to a disk space issue in the vm the tests run. It's in my todo list to take a look at that and get them going again
<jamespage> we'll circle back to caribou
<matsubara> other than that I have nothing else to report
<matsubara> jamespage, ^
<jamespage> any questions for matsubara ?
<jamespage> nope ok - thanks matsubara
<jamespage> caribou,
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> sorry for being late; network issues
<caribou> nothing particular, aside from some squid-deb-proxy upstart changes that might impact maas
<caribou> but kind of OT for this meeting
<jamespage> fine
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Heya, I have one thing I wanted to mention:
<smb> We have done a lot of hammering bcache with the 3.13 kernel and were
<smb> unable to see any of those lockups/hangs we were hearing about. The
<smb> only guess right now is that those hangs may be related to the use
<smb> of NVMe drives as cache. And even that may require certain revisions
<smb> of the HW / FW. So we cannot support the claim that bcache on a 3.13
<smb> kernel has runtime issues. I anyone thinks there is one, please file
<smb> bug reports with proper detail about used hardware, setup, and usage.
<smb> That be all for today  :)
 * jamespage looks sheepish
<jamespage> thanks smb
<jamespage> good to know its getting some exercise
<jamespage> I think we need to circle back to the lab where that issue was seen - later testing was done with HWE kernels
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> anyone going anywhere good?
<jamespage> OpenStack summit last week was well attended by Ubuntu folks....
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<jamespage> anyone have anything they want to raise?
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<jamespage> same time next week
<jamespage> 2nd June 1600 UTC
<jamespage> see you then
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 26 16:12:38 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-26-16.00.moin.txt
<caribou> jamespage: thanks!
<arosales> jamespage, thanks for chairing
<jamespage> np
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 26 17:00:08 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<cking> o/
<smb> o\
<arges> o/
<sforshee> o/
<henrix> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are still tracking the 4.0.x stable series on wily master-next.
<ogasawara> We're currently rebased to 4.0.4 and still sorting DKMS testing.  We
<ogasawara> will shoot for an official upload to Wily in the next few weeks.
<ogasawara> Tracking of the 4.1 series is taking place in our unstable git repo on
<ogasawara> kernel.ubuntu.com.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WileyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> I'll pull out relevant dates for next week's meeting.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (henrix)
<henrix> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<henrix>   * Precise - Prep
<henrix>   *  Trusty - Prep
<henrix>   *  Utopic - Prep
<henrix>   *  Vivid  - Prep
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix>  
<henrix> Schedule:
<henrix>  
<henrix> cycle: 23-May through 13-Jun
<henrix> ====================================================================
<henrix>          22-May   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<henrix> 24-May - 30-May   Kernel prep week.
<henrix> 31-May - 13-Jun   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<henrix>  
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 26 17:05:15 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-26-17.00.moin.txt
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-27
<Kilos> greetings everyone
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-28
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> o/
<Kilos> hi sil2100  caribou
<Kilos> oh and infinity
<infinity> Hai.
<Kilos> whew  and all others
<sil2100> hm, I can't seem to access our mumble, is that a known issue guys?
<barry> sil2100: wfm
<infinity> sil2100: Working for me.
<sil2100> barry: did you have to change the password or anything?
<barry> sil2100: i don't think so
<sil2100> Oh
<sil2100> Now it works
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 28 15:04:12 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> robru jodh sil2100 doko slangasek bdmurray caribou cyphermox infinity mvo barry stgraber
<robru> wooooohooooo!
<sil2100> I'm nooot reaadyyyy
<robru> * Implemented dual landings in CI Train
<robru>   - fixed a bug with tracking the migration of a dual landing silo
<robru>   - fixed a bug that prevented reconfiguring a dual landing silo
<robru> * Various iterations on the spreadsheet replacement & mojo spec.
<robru> (done)
 * sil2100 hastens
 * mvo_ has a conflicting meeting but will try to pay attention here too, please ping me when its my turn
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - SRU work for bug 1447756.
<ubottu> bug 1447756 in upstart (Ubuntu Vivid) "[SRU] segfault in log.c code causes phone reboot loops" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447756
<jodh> * snappy:
<jodh>   - selftest bits.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Super short week as out Mon-Wed.
<jodh> ß
<sil2100> Uuh
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings and discussions
<sil2100> - Mode documentation work: bug management, dual landings, landing guidelines
<sil2100> - Deploying a canonistack instance for automated scripts
<sil2100> - Fixes to the auto-close scripts
<sil2100> - Much system-image channel fun:
<sil2100>   * Setting up some new channels for arale
<sil2100>   * Various image manipulation etc. for multiple people
<sil2100> - Other stuff
<sil2100> (done)
<sil2100> (the Other stuff is for the things I didn't have time to write up here)
<doko> - packaged python3.5 beta1
<doko> - packaged python2.7 2.7.10
<doko> - looked at autopkg test failures, caused by ProdStack
<doko> - golang merge
<doko> - GCC 5 updates, and GCC 5 cross updates
<doko> (done)
<slangasek>  * short week due to US holiday + vac
<slangasek>  * signing key for system-image rotated without incident
<slangasek>  * arale images are now public on system-image.u.c!
<slangasek>  * will be finishing the system-image channel migration over the next week
<slangasek> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - Squid deb proxy startup race condition (Bug: 1456662)
<ubottu> bug 1456662 in squid-deb-proxy (Ubuntu Trusty) "squid-deb-proxy fails to resolve dns entry : needs to be restarted" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456662
<caribou>    * Waiting for mvo's upload to reach Wily to SRU
<caribou>  - Maas preseeding with fastinstaller
<caribou>  - Misc office work
<caribou> (done)
<cyphermox>  * tested root=multipath-$UUID changes for booting on multipath
<cyphermox>    - needs more work.
<cyphermox>  * preparing search/kern patch for grub2-signed bug 1097570;
<cyphermox>    - suggesting a new grub_bootdev var to use for hinting search
<ubottu> bug 1097570 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub2-signed can not find the right device when there are two filesystems containing the file '.disk/info'." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097570
<mvo_> caribou: thanks for the sru! new version should be available now in wily
<cyphermox>  * reviewed grub2(-signed) arm64 efi image MP from dannf
<cyphermox>  * merged tzsetup (completed)
<cyphermox>  * responded to questions on netbooting PowerVM.
<bdmurray> caribou: don't forget to say "queue hopping in the meeting"
<cyphermox>  * merging/tested localechooser (in progress)
<cyphermox> (done)
 * bdmurray just waits to the end now
<caribou> bdmurray: sorry; I thought I was after slangasek
<infinity> bdmurray: Go now, I'll wait. :P
<bdmurray> updated daisy to only use the alias if there is one
<bdmurray> submitted RTs to have daisy updated on staging / production
<bdmurray> fixed a traceback in the errors frontend when viewing a hash of a bucket
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have production version of errors updated to r544
<bdmurray> continued work on checking LP for packages for apport-retrace
<bdmurray> submitted apport merge proposal
<bdmurray> updated mp to get source packages from Launchpad for apport-retrace
<bdmurray> apport-retrace updates per pitti's suggestions
<bdmurray> Tested Launchpad API and getting debs for the overlay PPA
<bdmurray> short week due to US holiday
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> doko: how were autopkgtest failures caused by prodstack?
<infinity> - Kernel SRU work
<infinity> - lts-vivid X HWE review and wrangling
<infinity> - lts-vivid debian-installer work
<infinity> - Sort out livefs-crashing-buildds issue
<infinity> - Trying to debug ppc gccgo issues
<infinity> - Misc SRU and AA work
<infinity> (done)
<mvo_> apt:
<mvo_> - Debug/fix #1445239
<mvo_> - New version for wily
<mvo_> - Prepare stable-update
<mvo_> - python-apt: Improve documentation (thanks Brian Murray)
<mvo_> aptdaemon:
<mvo_> - some cleanup
<mvo_> snappy:
<mvo_> - lots of stuff
<mvo_> squid-deb-proxy:
<mvo_> - Release 0.8.11
<infinity> slangasek: I think he means scalingstack.
<mvo_> unattended-upgrades:
<mvo_> - Review/merge/improve branch to
<mvo_>   allowUnattended-upgrade::automatic-reboot-withusers
<mvo_> - review/merge/improve branch to allow removal of unused dependencies
<mvo_> - uploaded new version
<mvo_> (done)
<barry> short week due to usa holiday
<barry> debuntu: ongoing work on the dpmt git migration (i think we're close!); debian bug #785787; converted pip repo to git (because of the need for separate 1.5.6 & 7.0 branches); LP: #1324391; still need to merge debian pip to ubuntu (or just get rid of the freakin' ubuntu delta that forces --user as default until upstream merges the patch)
<ubottu> Debian bug 785787 in python-pip "python-distlib == 0.2.0-1 breaks python-pip 1.5.6" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/785787
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1324391 in python-pip (Ubuntu Trusty) "pip 1.5.4 import an invalid dependencies " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1324391
<barry> si: updated ImageBasedUpgrades wiki page, and documented phased updates.  LP: #1444347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1444347 in Ubuntu system image "/usr/bin/aa-clickhook:ImportError:/usr/bin/aa-clickhook@14:/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/apparmor/click.py@15:/usr/lib/python3.4/ctypes/__init__.py@7" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444347
<barry> --done--
<stgraber>  - LXC/LXD
<stgraber>    - Released LXD 0.10 on Tuesday, uploaded to archive, PPAs, ...
<stgraber>    - Working on updating the LXD specs post-Malta sprint.
<stgraber>    - Code reviews, bug triaging, other admin paperwork
<stgraber>  - Other
<stgraber>    - QA tracker auth issue fix
<stgraber>    - Some system-image discussions
<stgraber> (done)
<doko> stgraber, and spent some time debugging gccgo. no success yet, so please remove the powerpc binary for now, I'll come back to gccgo later
<slangasek> infinity, doko: ok; then /what/ autopkgtest failures were caused by scalingstack? :)
<stgraber> doko: ok, I'll remove the powerpc binary
<doko>  bug 1459526
<ubottu> bug 1459526 in adt-cloud-worker "python2.7 test regression: Tunnel connection failed: 403 Forbidden" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1459526
<infinity> slangasek: Looks like amd64 moved to scalingstack and i386 didn't, so 9 times out of 10, a fail on amd64 and success on i386 means we're being bitten by the network access issue we had that long thread about.
<slangasek> infinity: 9 times out of 10 is approximately the entire set of packages that were affected by the change in network policy
<mvo_> caribou: I was lying, sorry, it seems like squid-deb-proxy is not up yet
<stgraber> reminds me I need to disable half the LXC testsuite
<slangasek> unless there have been further changes beyond the ones that were discussed with the CI team
<infinity> slangasek: I'm not sure the investigation there of what was affected was exhaustive.
<caribou> mvo_: I'm not lying I said I was waiting for it to make it to Wily
<caribou> :)
<mvo_> caribou: you were not, I was lying :)
<infinity> doko: As for gccgo on ppc, I only spent an hour or so looking, but it's definitely confusing.  Debian appears to have a newer binutils, though, is it possible we need to be building gcc-5 with that same newer binutils on ppc?
<doko> ohh, I didn't merge ... maybe I should
<infinity> doko: Well, gcc-5 is also a Debian revision behind, so maybe if you merge binutils, wait for it to be built, and then merge gcc-5, it'll all magically fix itself, and we can not bother asking why. :P
<infinity> doko: I kinda doubt it'll be that easy, but worth a shot.
<slangasek> ok, any other questions?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> or anything else to discuss? :)
<mvo_> caribou: I will upload the new squid-deb-proxy with the fixes today, sorry, I think I dreamed that I already uploaded it
<sil2100> I'll be off tomorrow and hard-to-access through phone and internet
<sil2100> Will be sending an e-mail about it with details though ;)
<infinity> sil2100: Carrier pigeon?
<caribou> mvo_: no worry, I hand fixed my own server for the time being
<cyphermox> infinity: morse code-tapping carrier pidgeons
<sil2100> Those won't work as well
<infinity> cyphermox: But where do we get the tiny tap shoes?
<slangasek> amazon
<cyphermox> the pidgeons get to remember the morse code, that's why you need many pidgeons in parallel
<infinity> slangasek: Man, they really do have everything.
<cyphermox> 8 of them for better success
<caribou> what's the RFC for TCP using carrier pidgeons transport already ?
<infinity> 1149
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 28 15:22:27 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-28-15.04.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<mvo_> thanks
<cyphermox> http://xkcd.com/1523/
<cyphermox> o/
<caribou> thanks! & here is the RFC : https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt
<caribou> "A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers"
<mvo_> cyphermox: haha
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-31
<xnox> cyphermox, chiluk - that merge looks good =) thanks
<xnox> slangasek, we do like your meetings =)
<Soul-Sing> who is maintaining meetingology (bot)
<cpaelzer> ... get ready ... o/
<cpaelzer> meeting incoming in 60 sec :-)
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 31 16:00:31 2016 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<coreycb> o/
<smoser> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<smb> o/
<cpaelzer> FYI - a few people are busy right now we will highlight them if needed
<cpaelzer> nice bunch of waving to start with the meeting
<cpaelzer> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<cpaelzer> the only older open action was about the importer which was announced already by nacc
<cpaelzer> checking for anything else we might miss ...
<nacc> ack, rbasak and i decided to sort of rewrite the algorithm, so a v2 beta will be announced this week :)
<cpaelzer> thanks nacc
<cpaelzer> nacc: there was a question about "waiting for importer" on #ubuntu-server today
<cpaelzer> nacc: I gues the answer is, not yet and wait hpow v2 looks like then?
<cpaelzer> anyway, lets go on then
<cpaelzer> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<rbasak> The current version is usable, but v2 may rewrite history, that's all.
<cpaelzer> thanks rbasak
<cpaelzer> anything important for Yakkety development from your side?
<cpaelzer> today pitti announced a major change to dns resolving
<rbasak> Nothing from me. It's merge time, but I understand we don't have that many major ones.
<cpaelzer> you might all check whatever you own or love if things are still as they should
<cpaelzer> there is a mail thread on ubuntu-devel about it
<rbasak> Remember grep-merges to find your TIL packages please.
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-w-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> sorry
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> rbasak: you will later go over curretn assigned bugs again, anything for now?
<rharper> o/
<caribou> \o
<rbasak> cpaelzer: I propose to do that at the end. I'd like to get a process update on assigned bugs then please, so if you have assignments, please take a look.
<rbasak> A progress udpate I mean.
<cpaelzer> I'll pass the torch at the end then
<cpaelzer> for now the list in Y is rather small, and no news for server
<cpaelzer> going on then for now
<cpaelzer> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> working on a few merges & done with kdump-tools work
<cpaelzer> great
<caribou> that's about it
<cpaelzer> thanks, anything for caribou?
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: do you want to interim cover that if there is anything?
<nacc> nothing but praise! excited for the merge :)
<jgrimm> nothing to report
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, ^^
<cpaelzer> k, thanks
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> Yakkety still coming with a 4.4/Xenial kernel. Seers foretell a 4.8 for the 16.10 future. Beside that nothing to report. Would there be any questions?
<cpaelzer> smb: thanks, that seem to be no further question
<cpaelzer> smb: any seer info on when to expect the first pre 4.8 ?
<smb> http://phb-crystal-ball.org/
<cpaelzer> hehe
<cpaelzer> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<cpaelzer> any papers generated by the crytal ball that would be important?
<cpaelzer> ok, nothing here
<cpaelzer> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: anything coming up?
<cpaelzer> lets assume nothing changed since last week, so no
<cpaelzer> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> anything in your minf that didn't fit the topics but wants to be discussed before we do bug progress checks?
<cpaelzer> minf=>mind
<jgrimm> nope
<cpaelzer> #topic next meeting will be in a week date 7th of june, same time - gnuoy will be chairing (I jumped in today)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: next meeting will be in a week date 7th of june, same time - gnuoy will be chairing (I jumped in today)
<cpaelzer> now is the time for anybody not wanting to participate in the bug progress discussion to drop off with a o/
<cpaelzer> I'll hand over to rbasak for that
<cpaelzer> #topic Bug Progress
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Bug Progress
<cpaelzer> #chair rbasak
<meetingology> Current chairs: cpaelzer rbasak
<rbasak> Thanks cpalezer!
<rbasak> May I have progress updates please? The current assignments I'm tracking are:
<rbasak> rharper: bug 1384503, bug 1457957, bug 1511735, bug 1518440, bug 1491406
<ubottu> bug 1384503 in rsync (Ubuntu Trusty) "rsync fails on large files with compression" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1384503
<ubottu> bug 1457957 in puppet (Ubuntu Vivid) "puppet uses upstart for service status checks in vivid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457957
<ubottu> bug 1511735 in libnl3 (Ubuntu Trusty) "libnl: fail to bind() netlink sockets" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511735
<ubottu> bug 1518440 in MAAS "tgt fails to install in LXD" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518440
<ubottu> bug 1491406 in augeas (Ubuntu) "augeas-lenses-1.2.0 - NagiosCfg lens broken for /etc/nagios.cfg due to spaces" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491406
<rbasak> nacc: bug 1318317, bug 1423498, bug 1524635, bug 1570472
<ubottu> bug 1318317 in openipmi (Ubuntu Trusty) "openipmi startup script removes kernel modules" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318317
<ubottu> bug 1423498 in squid3 (Ubuntu Trusty) "FTP upload causes squid hang" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423498
<ubottu> bug 1524635 in haproxy (Ubuntu) "haproxy syslog configuration causes double logging" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1524635
<ubottu> bug 1570472 in puppet (Ubuntu) "Set systemd as default service provider" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570472
<rbasak> nacc: that last one I added when I saw activity on it last week. I don't think I'd formally assigned it to you as tracked. Hope that's OK.
<rbasak> magicalChicken isn't here so I'll ask him in #ubuntu-server
<rbasak> cpaelzer: bug 1507681
<rharper> rbasak: for tgt on LXD; it's released except for trusty, which SRU to Trusty is under way
<ubottu> bug 1507681 in psmisc (Ubuntu Precise) "killall with 65 arguments kills more than expected" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507681
<rbasak> jgrimm: bug 1397250
<ubottu> bug 1397250 in libnss-ldap (Ubuntu) "SIGPIPE not caught in do_atfork_child()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397250
<rharper> rbasak: for the remaining of mine, I've not touched those;
<nacc> rbasak: lp1318317 needs ibm to confirm it's fixed in the sru so it can push through.
<cpaelzer> bug 1507681 is read, SRU template filled, the patch on the bug was correct incomplete, I backported a bit more from the upstream fix for it
<jgrimm> rbasak, been out on PTO/holdiay, sorry no progress
<nacc> rbasak: lp1423498 debdiff attached, waiting on testing there
<rbasak> rharper: OK, thanks!
<cpaelzer> waiting for sponsors in the queue
<nacc> rbasak: lp1570472, was going to work on that patch today
<nacc> rbasak: and i'll get a debdiff and ppa setup for lp1524635 today as well
<rbasak> nacc: for 317 I'll mark as cleared in tracking then, as it's been blocked on not-us for a week now. Thank you for driving that!
<nacc> rbasak: ack
<rbasak> cpaelzer: thanks. I'll review for you after this meeting.
<rbasak> jgrimm: np. Let me know if we should cancel that assignment.
<cpaelzer> rbasak: thank you
<jgrimm> rbasak, i'd like to keep it, as its somewhat low importance. good one for me. :)
<rbasak> OK
<cpaelzer> rbasak: I'll keep track if it and hope the reporters test once it is in proposed, but free to pass another one to my inbox
<rbasak> cpaelzer: fancy taking bug 1495988?
<ubottu> bug 1495988 in apache2 (Ubuntu) "ProxyErrorOverride leads to slow 404 responses" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495988
<cpaelzer> rbasak: I'll start looking at it in non existing spare time :-)=
<rbasak> I have one fairly bulky one I'd like to delegate please.
<cpaelzer> assigned myself in the bug
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer!
<rbasak> bacula is pretty broken generally in Xenial it seems. There are about four bugs. I think one or two are remaining to figure out, and then we can SRU.
<rbasak> Is someone available to drive that please?
<rbasak> I guess not. I'll stick them in the backlog.
<rbasak> I think I'm done then. Thanks all!
<rbasak> Any other comments from anyone?
<nacc> rbasak: i probably TIL'd it (the merge), i can take a look
<rbasak> nacc: for bacula? Thank you!
<nacc> rbasak: yeah
<nacc> rbasak: feel free to just assign in lp and i'll prioritize them up
<rbasak> ack
<rbasak> I guess we're done then. Thanks all!
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 31 16:24:20 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-31-16.00.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> thanks everybody
<cpaelzer> o/
<jgrimm> thanks cpaelzer
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-06-01
<gnuoy> #startmeeting openstack-charms-meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun  1 17:00:17 2016 UTC.  The chair is gnuoy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic:
<gnuoy> Welcome all, \o
<thedac> o/
<icey> o/
<beisner> o/ gnuoy  ...
<gnuoy> Lets kick off with...
<coreycb> o/
<beisner> ha!
<gnuoy> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gnuoy> #subtopic gnuoy review 16.07 deliverables
<gnuoy> I'd like to defer this until next week and see where we are at the end of the current sprint.
<gnuoy> #subtopic gnuoy fix release dates
<gnuoy> Aiming for 2016-07-14 for code freeze and release on 2016-07-28 assuming thats ok with beisner?
<beisner> +1 here
<gnuoy> icey, cholcombe, same for you ^ ?
<cholcombe> gnuoy, yeah i think that's fine
<icey> +1
<gnuoy> kk
<gnuoy> #subtopic gnuoy Review bug queue
<gnuoy> I've done some triage in the past week. Any help with whittling down the queue would be gratefully recieved.
<cholcombe> is it climbing again?
<gnuoy> Actually we have a topic for that later...
<gnuoy> cholcombe, nope
<cholcombe> ok
<gnuoy> Thats all the actions from last week
<gnuoy> #topic State of Development for next Charm Release
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: State of Development for next Charm Release
<gnuoy> Layers work continues, enabling the HA is mostly done and reviews should be up soon. I'm planning to make the Openstack base layer dependant in stubs leadership layer unless anyone has any objections?
<gnuoy> s/in stubs/on stubs/
<gnuoy> tbh stubs layer looks like it should be part of the core reactive helpers
<gnuoy> thedac, any updates on DNS HA?
<thedac> Still a work in progress. Should have something to show next week.
<gnuoy> tip top
<gnuoy> tinwood, how's your Barbican?
<beisner> gnuoy, re: leadership layer -> core reactive helper, should we try to encourage that to happen?
<gnuoy> beisner, yes, let me chat to stub
<beisner> gnuoy, ack cool thx
<tinwood> gnuoy, still a work in progress.  The assess status is proving tricky to combine with the 'old style' charm helpers.
<gnuoy> #action gnuoy talk to stub about moving his leadership layer into core
<meetingology> ACTION: gnuoy talk to stub about moving his leadership layer into core
<gnuoy> tinwood, would it be easier to walk away from existing code and implement afresh?
<tinwood> gnuoy, hmm, wondering about that.  Trying to find a way to cleanly declare the dependencies a la contexts/configs for auto-checking of relationship statuses.
<tinwood> s/statuses/states/
<gnuoy> kk
<gnuoy> #topic news
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: news
<gnuoy> #subtopic Getting project status within Openstack
<gnuoy> So, we're moving in the right direction!
<gnuoy> If anyone missed it we are blocked on licensing atm
<gnuoy> and I think thats the only thing
<tinwood> excellent.
<beisner> Yep, sounds like generally clear to proceed after relicensing
<gnuoy> \o/
<coreycb> \o/  hopefully licensing isn't too hard
<gnuoy> #action jamespage update on relicensing of charms
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage update on relicensing of charms
<beisner> On this note, I plan to add charm-tempest to git/gerrit this week so that we can use it for the layer-ci build-out
<beisner> One more to re-license ;-)
<gnuoy> beisner, oh, I have a project-config change up atm for enabling haproxy but am stuck. Igot a Jenkins -1 for no good reason
<beisner> gnuoy, happy to have a look if you like
<gnuoy> thanks!
<gnuoy> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/323716/
<gnuoy> #subtopic Epics
<gnuoy> Epics are moving out into the Open and can be found...
<gnuoy> https://github.com/openstack-charmers/charm-specs
<gnuoy> #link https://github.com/openstack-charmers/charm-specs
<gnuoy> #topic Release Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Release Bugs
<gnuoy> #link https://goo.gl/HJjORI
<gnuoy> so in answer to cholcombes question the number is lower than before
<cholcombe> nice
<gnuoy> but again, any help in working through them would be great
<gnuoy> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<gnuoy> I have nothing to discuss openly, so the floor is yours...
<coreycb> gnuoy, some deploy from source code landed in charm-helpers and cinder for systemd init support
<gnuoy> excellent
<coreycb> gnuoy, just need to hit the other charms with similar updates
<gnuoy> coreycb, I take it they'll need more love than just a rsync ?
<coreycb> gnuoy, yeah, quite a bit but it's not hard
<gnuoy> kk
<gnuoy> ok, last chance for any more news...
<gnuoy> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<gnuoy> Same time, same place! (2016-06-8 17:00 UTC)
<gnuoy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun  1 17:17:24 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-06-01-17.00.moin.txt
<beisner> thanks gnuoy
<tinwood> thanks gnuoy
<gnuoy> my pleasure
<thedac> thanks gnuoy
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-06-02
<sil2100> o/
<tdaitx> \o
<pitti> ~o~
 * genii makes another pot of coffee
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun  2 15:03:03 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> pitti robru cyphermox tdaitx doko sil2100 xnox slangasek barry infinity caribou bdmurray chiluk
 * chiluk = winning.
<pitti> slangasek: FYI, caribou will be a bit late, but he's close to the end so that's fine
<pitti> win!
<pitti> convergence-y-replace-upstart: settled down the architecture and converted about a third of our session upstart jobs to systemd, the two live happily side by side, all in a PPA now as a PoC; this is now ready for a little sprint with the desktop team to complete this, proposed for end July (TBD)
<pitti> foundations-y-local-resolver: landed and announced the changes; this caused some fallout about DNS caching and domain specific DNS servers, resulting in two more WIs
<pitti> Ubuntu network YAML config: pinned down design with the server team enough to be able to start working on a prototype; but snappy team has different use cases and a parallel spec which looks rather different; scheduled meeting with lool tomorrow to unify those. This is becoming homungus, it will take quite some more time to pin down the design for this, so /!\ this might land late
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Add self-autopkgtest for building and using an LXD container
<pitti>  - Refine apt pinning â source version mapping heuristics (didn't work for ktnef and linux-raspi2)
<pitti>  - Support packages for sources which haven't been rebuilt since precise (#1588199)
<pitti>  - lots of manual maintenance and cleanup after several infra troubles
<pitti> systemd:
<pitti>  - debug resolved crashes
<pitti>  - Fix comments in resolve.conf for search domain overflows (#1588229)
<pitti>  - Fix networkd integration with resolvconf for domain-limited DNS servers (#1587762)
<pitti>  - Fix LSB init-functions integration with upstream master
<pitti> distro changes/fixes:
<pitti>  - dropped init/systemd from essential, thus buildd chroots now don't have it any more (hello infinity)
<pitti>  - dropped initscripts from default install, a big step towards dropping sysvinit
<pitti>  - apport: Fix retracing of arm64/ppc64el reports (#1585702)
<pitti>  - at-spi2-atk: Fix to work with dbus-user-session
<pitti>  - init-system-helpers: Fix deb-systemd-invoke interpretation of policy-rc.d (Debian #825075)
<ubottu> Debian bug 825075 in init-system-helpers "deb-systemd-invoke: incomplete handling of policy-rc.d status codes" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/825075
<pitti>  - debug/fix invoke-rc.d failure in containers (#1587903)
<pitti>  - Some ubuntu-minimal/standard seed cleanup
<pitti> (end)
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * successful rollout of build parallelization branch
<robru>   - fixed a few regressions identified by users
<robru>   - reviewed running jobs to ensure things were working for everybody
<robru>   - answered a lot of user questions
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> * a few minor fixes to sync with lp:bileto
<robru>   - support for comments in MP lists
<robru>   - new filename format for diffs
<robru> (done)
<cyphermox> MIR:
<cyphermox> - python-yaql
<cyphermox> SRU:
<cyphermox> - ipmitool sel time set TZ parsing (bug LP: #1586048)
<cyphermox> - secureboot efivar/efibootmgr/mokutil to P&T
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1586048 in ipmitool (Ubuntu Xenial) "ipmi sel time set is setting 30 mins less than given time in OOB, and 30 mins more than given time in in-band method (ipmitool)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1586048
<cyphermox> precise:
<cyphermox> - debugging binutils segfault on i386
<cyphermox>   - this is required for the sbsigntool backport for Secure Boot support
<cyphermox> xenial:
<cyphermox> - console-setup SRU (bug LP: #1572697, bug LP: #1576893, bug LP: #1579267)
<cyphermox> yakkety:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1572697 in console-setup (Ubuntu Xenial) "broken symlink console-setup.service [systemd]" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572697
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576893 in console-setup (Ubuntu Xenial) "console colors are not correctly applied" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576893
<cyphermox> - NM wwan icon fixes (bug LP: #1571574)
<cyphermox> - investigate mdadm install/upgrade issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579267 in console-setup (Ubuntu Xenial) "plymouth-start.service: After: reference to non-existent keyboard-setup.service" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579267
<cyphermox> Â±other stuff:
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1571574 in OEM Priority Project "[SRU] 3G (WWAN) icon missing" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571574
<cyphermox> - DNS resolver discussion w/ pitti and awe
<cyphermox> - various meetings about networking
<cyphermox> - Lenovo tech here in 20 minutes to fix my X230
<cyphermox> (done)
<tdaitx> Note: short week, away on Friday
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>    - done an initial setup of autopkgtest infra locally with canonistack swift, stopped midway as this is not the best way to get JCK to run
<tdaitx>    - Got Jenkins installed locally and started setting it up to run together with a slave
<tdaitx>    - Requested a Jenkins instance with a pair of slaves for amd64, arm64, and ppc64el, requested for Xenial slaves; ongoing
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>    - On vacation next week, will see you all on the sprint ;-)
<tdaitx>    - After the sprint I will be working half a day for 2 weeks
<tdaitx> (done)
<pitti> tdaitx: JCK> what was the blocker, something missing in autopkgtest, or canonistack not being up to the task?
<sil2100> doko: ?
<tdaitx> btw, thanks pitti for the help with autopkgtest =)
<bdmurray> doko is at pycon
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> - Shorter week, Friday off
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings
<sil2100> - Xenial touch transition:
<sil2100>   * Adding pocket-desktop packages to the list of unbuildable package checks
<pitti> tdaitx: I guess we shoudl talk about that; you setting up an entierly parallel infra doesn't sound very efficient
<sil2100>   * Looking into why unity-scope-click is FTBFS on arm64 (oxide build-dep chain)
<sil2100>   * Poking and coordinating various arm64 related tasks
<sil2100>   * Reverting the lxc revert for yakkety-overlay and xenial-overlay
<sil2100> - OTA-11:
<sil2100>   * Preparing release notes, sending release e-mails
<sil2100>   * Copying images to stable and starting phasing
<sil2100>   * Various actions on additional testing - emulator not publishable again
<sil2100> - Helping out in investigating the issue with OTAs not downloading (LP: #1588370)
<pitti> tdaitx: excellent sprint matter for Greece :)
<sil2100> - Removing deprecated ubuntu-touch frameworks
<tdaitx> pitti: even the logs have to private... I believe jenkaas can provide what I actually need
<sil2100> - Preparing silo with upstream crasher fix cherrypick for lxc
<sil2100> - Preparing silo for vivid-overlay ltt-controls follow up on the ust backport
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1588370 in Ubuntu system image "Unable to download update from OTA-9 to OTA-11 on turbo" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1588370
<sil2100> - Start documenting the current manual image re-spin process
<sil2100> - Some work on the re-sign-indexes script after key rotation in system-image (merged)
<sil2100> (done)
<tdaitx> pitti: but I will be using autopkgtest for the jtreg build that is run on openjdk builds ;-
<tdaitx> ;-)
<pitti> sil2100: \o/
<pitti> sil2100: to be clear, that's both migrating to xenial and to arm64?
<sil2100> pitti: yeah, we're doing both at once basically
<slangasek> skipping xnox for now, he said he would be here toward the end of the meeting due to conflict
<pitti> sil2100: die, vivid, die! :-)
<slangasek>  * short week, Memorial Day
<slangasek>  * SRU processing, including some work for the SecureBoot policy update
<slangasek>  * pushing the libpoppler library transition along through p-m
<slangasek>  * discussions around network-config yaml interface for 16.10
<slangasek>  * discussions around snappy first-boot experience
<slangasek>  * tweaks to packaging of snappy components
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> barry also at pycon
<slangasek> infinity not here
<slangasek> is caribou here now?
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> short week w/ Monday holiday
<bdmurray> further tests of retracing arm64 and ppc64el crashes
<bdmurray> modifications to the retracer charm to retrace arm64 crashes
<bdmurray> tested retracing arm64 crashes in staging ET
<bdmurray> added retracer configuations for arm64 and ppc64el to daisy code
<bdmurray> modifications to daisy to keep track of retrace attempts and only try 3 times
<bdmurray> worked with webops to resolve an errors frontend failure
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding SRU bugs not being commented on and how LP works
<bdmurray> modifications to SRU tools to add release tasks
<bdmurray> added a hint for xenial for fpc
<bdmurray> discussed fpc autopkgtest "regression" with pitti
<bdmurray> â done
<caribou> slangasek: o/
<pitti> bdmurray: thanks for setting up overrides for stables, much appreicated
<pitti> and tpying is hrad
<slangasek> caribou: hi! you're up :)
<chiluk> you mean me..
<caribou> Bugfix :
<caribou>  - Quassel does not play sound (LP: #1506550)
<caribou>    Investigating FTBS on X & Y
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1506550 in quassel (Ubuntu Xenial) "quassel can't play audio notifications in wily" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1506550
<caribou> Development work:
<caribou>  - makedumpfile development
<caribou>    Uploaded to Debian. Will sync
<caribou>    when kexec-tools merge is completed
<caribou>  - Various merges :*
<caribou>    corosync
<caribou>    kexec-tools
<caribou>  - sosreport development
<caribou>    Rearrange debian git repo
<caribou>    Prepare new version
<caribou>  - Interviews
<caribou>  â Done
<sil2100> pitti: hah, will be a while since it's completely dead tho ;)
<pitti> sil2100: only three out of nine lives gone?
<tdaitx> bdmurray: what irc channel did the "sru comments/lp works" discussion take place at?
<chiluk> * Short Week - memorial day
<chiluk> * Mostly non-public work
<chiluk> * LP#1581236 - Tested upstream kernel + patches on my haswell box with no benefits.  Need to verify if my nvidia card in my test rig is the issue.
<chiluk> * LP#1579917 - Tested upstream kernel + patches, but saw no benefit.  Need
<chiluk> * Looked at merging partman-auto, quassel, and mdadm some more.  cyphermox told me to stop with the d-i components due to the rewrite.  I need some guidance for quassel and mdadm, as they both look like they have some broken ancenstry.  Basically quassel requires merging each upstream change when using grab-merge (I'd expect non-conflicting changes to just be applied). That doesn't seem right.
<caribou> chiluk: sorry for jumping the gun on oy
<chiluk> -done-
<chiluk> no worries caribou.
<slangasek> any questions?
<caribou> chiluk: if you look at quassel, it has ftbs since xenial
<chiluk> slangasek I'll direct my merge questions to ubuntu+1-maint channel.
<chiluk> later.. I usually look at merges for the last hour of my day or so.. which is probably not optimal.
<slangasek> heh, k
<caribou> I've been using the server team's git workflow; wfm
<caribou> to merge I mean
<chiluk> yeah.. I haven't looked too much at that yet..
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Sprint prep
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Sprint prep
<bdmurray> tdaitx: ubuntu-release
<tdaitx> bdmurray: thanks!
<slangasek> sprint is coming up on us fast; since no one volunteered last week ;), I've set up a doc for our agenda: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rdiLICseBxX6Gml586DR1YDaFmbYuGEUcayFKdYAWRY/edit
<slangasek> please add to it
<slangasek> and if you have doubts about what you should be working on at the sprint, come talk to me :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else for today?
<bdmurray> I'm planning on setting up retracers for arm64 and while we could for ppc64el, is there much need?
<slangasek> it's not a burning priority
<slangasek> but is it easier to just set it up at the same time?
<bdmurray> Yes it would be the same amount of work.
<pitti> tdaitx: want to talk about autopkgtest-ifying the JCK?
<pitti> tdaitx: (the test format, not necessarily the infra0
<tdaitx> pitti: not for JCK, possibily for OpenJDK packaging tests that are run during the build now
<bdmurray> pitti: Do you have arm64 retracers for LP?
<pitti> bdmurray: not ATM
<pitti> only x86, powerpc, and armhf
<pitti> no arm64, no ppc64el
<pitti> and no s390x either
<tdaitx> pitti: but I need to sit down and try my hand at them before I have an actual valid question =)
<pitti> tdaitx: ok; I think providing them in our standard format is still valuable for running locally, even if you might end up running them on a separate infar
<pitti> infra
<tdaitx> pitti: alright, then lets put that on the agenda
<pitti> gosh, this gdoc thing is impossible
<pitti> slangasek: thanks for trying to unindent that; the unindent button doesn't work, and it seems I'm too dense to drive that
 * pitti is too used to Markdown and wiki :/
<slangasek> pitti: yes, I had noticed the same problem, I don't know what I did wrong with that doc to break unindent
<slangasek> anyway, seems like we can end the meeting and go fight with collaborative doc editing now
<pitti> slangasek: normally that shoudl be the third-most button from the right, no?
<slangasek> there, figured it out ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun  2 15:27:20 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-06-02-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<caribou> slangasek: thanks!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<sil2100> o/
<xnox> slangasek, i'm done =)
<xnox> oh well.
<grvrulz> Hey @channel. I was supposed to be here for the UTC 20:00 membership meeting, but couldn't be here  due to connectivity issues. Should I stick around for the UTC 22:00 one??
<pleia2> grvrulz: that seems like a reasonable thing to do
<grvrulz> pleia2: Thanks, I'll stick around. :)
<grvrulz> Hi everyone, I'm here for the UTC 22:00 membership board meeting.
<grvrulz> I guess nobody came.
<grvrulz> I'll probably get back in the next one. Thanks anyways.
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-06-05
<cariboo907> So I guess we can start
<slickymaster> yes
<cariboo907> #startmeeting semi monthly meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun Jun  5 18:04:41 2016 UTC.  The chair is cariboo907. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | semi monthly meeting | Current topic:
<cariboo907> #chair bapoumba  howefield coffeecat slickymaster cariboo907
<meetingology> Current chairs: bapoumba cariboo907 coffeecat howefield slickymaster
<bapoumba> .o/
<slickymaster> o/
<cariboo907> the only item on the agenda aside form the fixed items is Forum staff renewal
<cariboo907> #topic forum staff renewals
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | semi monthly meeting | Current topic: forum staff renewals
 * slickymaster checks the agenda
<cariboo907> I forgot why we were needing to discuss this
 * bapoumba was looking for it :D
<cariboo907> :)
<slickymaster> yeaps, not sure why, also
<bapoumba> same here
<slickymaster> howefield, does it ring any bells?
<cariboo907> could it be something to do with wgarcia's renewal as staff other and staff?
<slickymaster> hmm, wasn't the item added prior to that, cariboo907?
<howefield> looks like an old agenda point
<bapoumba> +1
<howefield> cariboo put it on 04th December last year
<cariboo907> looking at the last edit time it may have been what triggered howefield to add it
<howefield> last edit was me changing the meeting time and date, but I didn't remove the Staff renewal point
<cariboo907> so if I added it I don't remeber why :)
<howefield> perhaps it has been superceded by the recent staff additions in any event ?
<bapoumba> Re: Teams reports, there is still one item to add in, sorry I did not do it.
<slickymaster> Mark Phelps, bapoumba?
<bapoumba> yes slickymaster
<bapoumba> other than that, we should be up to date
<bapoumba> does the UWN pick the team reports up ?
<bapoumba> I have not closely followed, but  Idid not see them
<slickymaster> Havne't see them in UWN in a while
<bapoumba> I read it when I read my mail .. and Iâve been a bit disconnected this week
<bapoumba> previous ones I have read
<bapoumba> but I may have missed the points
<bapoumba> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports <- says january beeing written :(
<bapoumba> that said, it is goos we keep them updated, at least for us
<bapoumba> *good
<cariboo907> I removed the item from the agenda
<slickymaster> well, lyz last edit it back in January, bapoumba
<bapoumba> but looks like team reports is not used anymore..
<slickymaster> apparently
<bapoumba> yeah
<bapoumba> maybe we could ping her about it
<slickymaster> I'll dfo it
<bapoumba> I can write an email if you (all) wish
<slickymaster> either way works for me
<bapoumba> ok
<slickymaster> ok, you'll mail her, right bapoumba?
<bapoumba> well, you or me, works the same for me :)
<slickymaster> lol
<bapoumba> please do it on our behalf, and Iâll be happy :)
<slickymaster> as I'll be in Lisbon next week, again, I'll only be able to ping next week, so probably it'd be better of you mail her
<bapoumba> OK, will do
<slickymaster> ok, thanks bapoumba :)
<bapoumba> welcome slickymaster
 * slickymaster bows
<bapoumba> :D
<howefield> put an action point cariboo907 before they change their minds :)
<bapoumba> no need for that slickymaster !
<slickymaster> lol howefield
<cariboo907> #action contact lyz
<meetingology> ACTION: contact lyz
<cariboo907> about team reports
<slickymaster> #info A blog entry was made regarding Mark Phelps membership through forum contributions
<bapoumba> yes cariboo907 ?
<slickymaster> #link https://ubuntuforumsorg.wordpress.com/
<cariboo907> speaking of the blog, I seem to have misplaced the password, is it in the Admin honey pot?
<slickymaster> yes cariboo907
<bapoumba> should be cariboo907
<slickymaster> both the username and the passowrd
<slickymaster> on the third page of the honey pot thread
<cariboo907> thanks, I see it now
<bapoumba> do we have other points ?
<slickymaster> nothing from me
<howefield> nothing from me
<coffeecat> nothing from me
<cariboo907> nothing from me either
<cariboo907> so if there's nothing else, I guess we can end this
<bapoumba> good for me then :)
<howefield> thanks all, thanks cariboo907 :)
<slickymaster> one last thing, I won't be around in IRC next week, but I'll try to login at the forums, though I suspect that scarcely
<slickymaster> tanks cariboo907
<cariboo907> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Jun  5 18:31:16 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-06-05-18.04.moin.txt
<bapoumba> OK slickymaster, Iâll try to be there, no meeing at the other end of the country ..
<bapoumba> *meeting
<slickymaster> great, thanks bapoumba
<bapoumba> thanks to you slickymaster :)
<bapoumba> and to the admins who are always around  ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-30
<ahasenack> o/
<teward> p/
<teward> oops
<teward> o/
<smb> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
<rharper> o/
<teward> *bleps*
<dpb1> o/
<cpaelzer> rbasak would chair I think but didn't reply yet
<cpaelzer> give him a minute otherwise one has to take over
<nacc> o/
<cpaelzer> ok, prepping the commands page ...
<cpaelzer> I'm gonna start - if rbasak joins he can complete and do the mails and such
<cpaelzer> dpb1: ok with that to get going?
<teward> i should consider familiarizing myself with these commands heh
<teward> but meh.
<dpb1> cpaelzer: go for it
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 30 16:06:00 2017 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<cpaelzer> we have plenty this time
<cpaelzer> lets check how much we postpone again
<cpaelzer> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<cpaelzer> well - not here so carry over
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<cpaelzer> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> nacc: how about those?
<nacc> cpaelzer: carrying on until next week
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<powersj> FYI we have a sprint agenda item to do all of these ;)
<rharper> ack
<cpaelzer> oh I see
<cpaelzer> so I carry rharper's as well
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<rharper> yes
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<cpaelzer> ACTION: teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x) (carried over)
<teward> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGINX/ReleaseNotes/Artful
<teward> probably needs improvement and needs a once-over from someone OTHER than me, but at least started there.
<teward> (I had no computer, so I dropped it in a sublocation under the NGINX pages)
<cpaelzer> see guys, this is how things are done
<cpaelzer> dpb1: could you add to review and move this to the real release notes to our sprint?
<nacc> tewards puts us all to shame
<cpaelzer> teward: has done the base work, if we need we can reach out to him
<cpaelzer> otherwise we can review polish and edit the reelase notes on the sprint
<dpb1> cpaelzer: ok
<teward> nacc: i'mma remember you said that :P
<cpaelzer> dpb1: you don't need an action here to take that into the sprint notes right?
<dpb1> cpaelzer: add an action
<dpb1> that way we can get one done!
<cpaelzer> #ACTION dpb1 to add the review of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGINX/ReleaseNotes/Artful to the sprint agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: dpb1 to add the review of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGINX/ReleaseNotes/Artful to the sprint agenda
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGINX/ReleaseNotes/Artful
<cpaelzer> ok one done, thanks teward
<cpaelzer> dpb1: while we are at it how about
<teward> cpaelzer: yep!
<cpaelzer> ACTION: dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team (carried over)
<ahasenack> hm
<ahasenack> that is the one the doc team mentioned to me
<dpb1> cpaelzer: will add that one too
<dpb1> good idea
<ahasenack> that they were waiting for before publishing a new server guide relase
<ahasenack> with my samba/ldap/kerberos fixes
<ahasenack> so dpb1 is blocking my fixes from landing! :)
<cpaelzer> I remember the reply ahasenack
<dpb1> ahasenack: you want to take it?
<cpaelzer> but they are unrelated - doc about kernel upgrades vs samba fixes
<cpaelzer> should not block each other right?
<ahasenack> indeed, they just wanted to take the opportunity
<ahasenack> ah, it was the /boot being filled up controversy?
<cpaelzer> yes
<ahasenack> what exactly are we supposed to do there?
<cpaelzer> so get your doc changes landed is #1
<ahasenack> document best practices?
<cpaelzer> and #2 is unrelated which is dpb1 taking care to clarify on these kernel things
<cpaelzer> I'll carry the action, then we can talk about doc ok ahasenack
<ahasenack> ok
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team (carried over, into sprint)
<meetingology> ACTION: : dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team (carried over, into sprint)
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: do you want to wait for the open discussion with the doc things?
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: but I'm fine here if you want
<ahasenack> what's next?
<ahasenack> let's do it in the open discussion section
<cpaelzer> Dev Release -> bugs -> sru- kernel -> open discussion
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<cpaelzer> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<cpaelzer> #subtopic blueprints
<cpaelzer> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-aa-server-core
<cpaelzer> on merges I heard nacc is power-farming merges
<cpaelzer> thanks a lot nacc
<cpaelzer> anything on the general Artful before going into artful bugs?
<teward> yeah i have work to do on nginx
<teward> merging from Debian by hand
<ahasenack> the merge report is now up-to-date, right?
<teward> but that'll be done by end-of-week
<ahasenack> I mean, it's running
<ahasenack> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/merges.html ?
<ahasenack> imagemagick is server?
<cpaelzer> rbasak updated it and it generates things with recent updates
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: I think it is tied to php
<ahasenack> ah, could be
<ahasenack> I might try some of the simpler ones, and related to services I know
<cpaelzer> yeah doing most before the Debian release will be wise
<cpaelzer> as after Debian releases all weird experiments will land and be sorted out
<cpaelzer> merging then might be more stressful than intended
<cpaelzer> a cycle later things will have settled a bit
<cpaelzer> there are excuses like myself with qemu/libvirt intentionally waiting until the new versions appear after the release
<cpaelzer> anyway going on to bugs in AA
<cpaelzer> #subtopic Release Bugs
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> hey, that list has gone down :)
<cpaelzer> nish is on the merge assigned so I consider that handled
<cpaelzer> sosreport is assigned to the reporter
<nacc> cpaelzer: django?
<cpaelzer> is that STS driven?
<nacc> cpaelzer: yeah, i'm waiting for confirmation from openstack still
<cpaelzer> nacc: yeah django
<ahasenack> how is that cloud-init one fix committed but the artful task is not?
<cpaelzer> nacc: you are on it which is enough to know it is not forgotten
<ahasenack> isn't the main task == artful at this time?
<cpaelzer> rharper: ^^?
<ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1692028
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692028 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Artful) "duplicate mac address during config-drive configuration with LXD container on openstack" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ahasenack> ah
<ahasenack> committed is upstream/code
<cpaelzer> I think if it is an ubuntu owned thing then Devel and Artful can differ
<ahasenack> package task is separate
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: see upstream vs "status tracked in artful"
<ahasenack> right
<cpaelzer> exactly
<ahasenack> I missed that
<ahasenack> n/m
<cpaelzer> slashd: hey is the sosreport from STS?
<cpaelzer> David Coronel is assigned to all of them
<cpaelzer> and the reporter
<cpaelzer> well if he is around he can share in the next section since the bug goes back to all other releases as well
<cpaelzer> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<cpaelzer> slashd: around?
<ahasenack> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1677329 needs a look (libpam-winbind sponsorship)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1677329 in samba (Ubuntu Zesty) "libpam-winbind: unable to dlopen" [High,In progress]
<cpaelzer> and while waiting any other SRUs worth to mention completed or inthe pipe?
<cpaelzer> I completed libvirt (apparmor rules) last week
<cpaelzer> also postrges MRE fully passed X,Y,Z
<cpaelzer> Trusty was accepted late, so it has to wait a few days in proposed - but test sare good
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: what is it that you need on that one ahasenack?
<ahasenack> cpaelzer: sponsorship for artful
<ahasenack> and then I can proceed with sru'ing it to the other releases where it just doesn't work
<ahasenack> I have a ppa with the fix for people to test: https://launchpad.net/~ahasenack/+archive/ubuntu/samba-1677329/+packages
<ahasenack> builds with the appropriate ~ppa1 suffix ;)
<cpaelzer> ahasenack: I need to tell you about bileto on the sprint
<ahasenack> do tell
<cpaelzer> which would make this a one-button action
<cpaelzer> it is a repetition for the others so not on the agenda, but please remind me
<cpaelzer> nacc: you did samba things in the past - could you sponsor the upload ?
<nacc> cpaelzer: i can -- isa it ready to sponsor?
<nacc> reading the backscroll
<nacc> ahasenack: ping me in #ubuntu-server after this and i'll review it
<cpaelzer> nacc: it is, if you want it in a different way then let ahasenack know
<ahasenack> ok, thanks
<cpaelzer> #ACTION: nacc to review and sponsor ahasenack work on bug 1677329
<meetingology> ACTION: : nacc to review and sponsor ahasenack work on bug 1677329
<ubottu> bug 1677329 in samba (Ubuntu Zesty) "libpam-winbind: unable to dlopen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1677329
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
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<cpaelzer> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<cpaelzer> copy and paste please
<powersj> Last week involved getting the initial collection metrics setup and into Prometheus. Also started on the proposed automation testing and was able to get a jenkins job setup with nightly checks for uploads and determine what tests, if any, need to be ran.
<powersj> This week the focus is on getting cloud-init/curtin CI pipeline setup to extend our merge request testing past unit tests and include integration, build, etc. testing. Also hoping to get my proposed automation testing further working to demo next week.
<powersj> #info continue work on proposed automation testing
<powersj> questions?
<cpaelzer> proposed automation testing is based on https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing right?
<powersj> cpaelzer: ys
<powersj> yes*
<cpaelzer> just as my qemu/libvirt tests
<cpaelzer> nice
<cpaelzer> I used more of them looking forward to discuss and help in case
<cpaelzer> e.g. strongswan I used
<cpaelzer> interested how you wrapped that to work in jenkins
<cpaelzer> #link https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing
<cpaelzer> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
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<smb> No news (those are said to be the good ones I hear). Are there questions/remarks/requests?
<ahasenack> smb: do we carry a big apparmor delta regarding the upstream kernel?
<smb> ahasenack, it can vary but I can tell from the top of my head how big that is in each kernel
<ahasenack> ok
<cpaelzer> thanks smb, I assume s/can/can't/ above
<cpaelzer> otherwise I'd be extra impressed
<ahasenack> same :)
<smb> indeed
<cpaelzer> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<cpaelzer> #link https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<cpaelzer> nothing on my radar that is important - anybody?
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 2
<cpaelzer> 1
<cpaelzer> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<cpaelzer> we sprint internally next week as you have seen on some actions we moved there
<cpaelzer> anything on top we should consider/discuss there?
<cpaelzer> silence = no
<cpaelzer> #topic Open Discussion
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<cpaelzer> ahasenack: could you outline the doc thing you wanted to discuss
<cpaelzer> I remember the discussion about 3 weeks ago
<ahasenack> ah, right
<cpaelzer> you wanted to get stuff into serverguide (and I read you have/are on the way)
<ahasenack> so tl;dr, I merged many fixes to the serverguide
<ahasenack> and that's ready for release/publishing
<cpaelzer> ok thats is a +1 for you
<cpaelzer> \o/
<ahasenack> the doc team then told me they will proceed with that, but first they wanted to check on something about unattended upgrades that was brought up elsewhere
<ahasenack> (not by me)
<ahasenack> and I didn't remembe that, until I saw that action here before
<cpaelzer> hrm - still sounds as one should not block th eother
<cpaelzer> was that update on the merge proposal?
<ahasenack> no
<ahasenack> the MPs have all been merged
<cpaelzer> ah you mean before the point release they want to check
<ahasenack> it was brought up in ubuntu-doc, in the reply to my publishing request
<ahasenack> right
<ahasenack> they wanted to try to include those changes in the point release as well
<cpaelzer> maybe they have another change in flight which they'd like to include
<cpaelzer> ah ok, now things make sense
<ahasenack> and after seeing that action item
<cpaelzer> do you happen to know if that is (or not) related to this kernel cleanup thing which is a task for dpb1?
<ahasenack> I wondered if we were blocking that for them
<cpaelzer> ok, so wondering not knowing if it IS the same item
<ahasenack> I *think* it is related, but it's vague to me
<cpaelzer> ok, dpb1 on that item could you do a few prechecks before next week so we know what to do onthat?
<cpaelzer> part of the action you already have
<ahasenack> I can paste the reply here
<cpaelzer> yeah please
<ahasenack> paste incoming (short)
<ahasenack> "However, over on the Ubuntu-server e-mail list and meeting reports there was some stuff
<ahasenack> about getting help addressing the unattended upgrades issues, and someone took the action
<ahasenack> item. I'm going to try to kick that list and get some help, towards the objective of
<ahasenack> including those fixes in this same point release cycle. So, there will be a delay before
<ahasenack> string freeze is declared for this point release cycle."
<dpb1> cpaelzer: I might not have time this week.
<ahasenack> might that "someone" be dpb1?
<cpaelzer> ok, ahasenack is next week early enough?
<cpaelzer> I guess yes
<ahasenack> sure
<cpaelzer> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
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<cpaelzer> we will be around same time (from the sprint)
<cpaelzer> chait will again be rbasak
<cpaelzer> who will do the mail/wiki updates today for me covering him I hope
<cpaelzer> as I have to run to a parent teacher conference now :-)
<cpaelzer> #chair rbasak
<meetingology> Current chairs: cpaelzer rbasak
<cpaelzer> you can close rbasak, so you get the link
<rbasak> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 30 16:41:01 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-30-16.06.moin.txt
<rharper> cpaelzer: thanks!
<rbasak> Thanks cpaelzer!
<cpaelzer> thank you everybody, and see you soon
<ahasenack> thx cpaelzer
<powersj> o/ thx cpaelzer
<slashd> cpaelzer, sorry I was on PTO, will be there next week, what is the best way to let you know in advance when I'm not attending the meeting ?
<dpb1> slashd: email to chair person with that info, or a backup who can cover for you would be good.
<slashd> dpb1, where can I find who chair the meeting ?
<dpb1> glad you asked!
<dpb1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<slashd> dpb1, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-06-01
<rbalint> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<cyphermox> do we have the slangasek to chair today?
<cyphermox> and I thought I was going to be late...
<tdaitx> same here =)
<tdaitx> o/
<cyphermox> :)
<cyphermox> well, maybe I can chair then, I have my little script
<bdmurray> hooray for cyphermox
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun  1 15:07:27 2017 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint)
<cyphermox> bdmurray slangasek xnox cyphermox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson
<bdmurray> short week w/ holidays
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files for u-r-u in zesty-updates
<bdmurray> research into 'do-release-upgrade -d' behavior w/ unsupported releases
<bdmurray> discussion with slangasek, cjwatson re phased-updater timeouts
<bdmurray> investigation into / worked on phased-updater timeouts
<bdmurray> modified requeue old core files script so it skips things already retraced
<bdmurray> submitted RTs re staging, production update of daisy
<bdmurray> review of new DuplicateSignatures for existing apport-package bugs
<bdmurray> reported Launchpad bug LP: #1694816
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1694816 in Launchpad itself "no method to query for packages with a phased_update_percentage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1694816
<bdmurray> â done
<cyphermox> oh
<cyphermox> netplan:
<cyphermox> - SRUs (skipping/fixing test regressions due to an older systemd in x/y)
<cyphermox> - prepare netcfg upload to have it write netplan config
<cyphermox> - merge brcmfmac unbind workaround (another SRU upload coming up for that)
<cyphermox> MIR reviews:
<cyphermox> - reviewing sbuild MIR
<cyphermox> - epiphany needs a security review (it's a browser)
<cyphermox> grub2:
<cyphermox> - fix double-free in the last grub2 upload (waiting in queue for amd64/arm64)
<cyphermox> - more testing for proper SecureBoot behavior
<cyphermox> infinity pointed out the epiphany MIR was NAKed by the security team in another bug before
<cyphermox> </done>
<tdaitx> * finished testing and submitted jtreg sru (LP: #1694358)
<tdaitx> * tracking down fix for libawt_xawt.so+2dcef error on 8u121
<tdaitx> * preparing 7u141 for debian + bzr branches with additional fixes (conditional -tests package + test results subset)
<tdaitx> * jck automated tests replaced interactive results
<tdaitx>    - need to expose and archive test results from the containers
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1694358 in jtreg (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] update jtreg in 14.04 LTS to 4.2-b05" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1694358
<tdaitx>    - how to archive both non-interactive and interactive ones together on jenkins
<tdaitx> * checking how to grab and include hs_err files in openjdk error reports
<tdaitx> * other: preparations for the sprint and travel
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> this is annoying, when I write the reporting order, it doesn't get highlighed so I can't get back to it easily
<sil2100> Is doko_ around?
<cyphermox> seems not?
<cyphermox> sil2100: your turn
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Lots of regular SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - walinuxagent:
<sil2100>   * Prepared 2.2.12, performed local tests, fully tested by Francis, released to -proposed
<sil2100> - Tested and released ubuntu-image 1.0 snap to the beta channel
<sil2100> - uvp-monitor:
<sil2100>   * Did some proper PPA builds of the test packaging
<sil2100>   * Experimented with the t-systems cloud - looked up non-Ubuntu images
<sil2100>   * Read some code and articles trying to figure out how to properly test the packages
<sil2100>   * Was able to confirm our new uvp-monitor properly exports stats to the web UI
<sil2100> - Flight preparations
<sil2100> - Handling DMB matters such as e-mail applicants and granting permissions paperwork
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint: your turn
<gaughen> cyphermox, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vine/+bug/1688091 looks like you've already taken care of it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1688091 in vine (Ubuntu) "[MIR] vine" [High,Fix committed]
<rbalint> * short week, vacation on Friday
<rbalint> * prepared Kodi SRU-s: LP: #1694249
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1694249 in kodi (Ubuntu) "CVE-2017-8314: malicious subtitle zip files vulnerability" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1694249
<rbalint> * prepared Wireshark SRU-s: LP: #1397091
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1397091 in wireshark (Ubuntu Trusty) "[Security] Update Wireshark in Precise, Trusty, and Utopic to include relevant security patches." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397091
<rbalint> * dietlibc sync request: LP: #1694347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1694347 in dietlibc (Ubuntu) "Sync dietlibc 0.34~cvs20160606-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1694347
<rbalint> * ftbfs-s related to pie rebuild
<rbalint> * learned a lot about launchpad ppa usage and scripts :-)
<rbalint> * pie ordering http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24738234/
<rbalint> * test rebuild (~5k packages) for PIE on i386, but need to do again on arm64 instead because i386 linker did not raise the errors arm64 did
<rbalint> eof
<bdmurray> no infinity today
<bdmurray> and no mwhudson
<cyphermox> alrighty then
<cyphermox> questions?
<cyphermox> seems like a "no"
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
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<cyphermox> AAOB?
<slangasek> everybody ready for the sprint? :)
<cyphermox> yep yep
<slangasek> (sorry I'm late)
<cyphermox> ohhh a slangasek.
<cyphermox> #chair slangasek
<meetingology> Current chairs: cyphermox slangasek
<slangasek> oh noes
<cyphermox> #unchair cyphermox
<meetingology> Current chairs: cyphermox slangasek
<cyphermox> crap. :(
<cyphermox> well, any other any other business?
<cyphermox> seems like nothing
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun  1 15:23:34 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-06-01-15.07.moin.txt
<sil2100> \o/
<tdaitx> thanks!
<cyphermox> thanks everyone!
<cyphermox> except slangasek, let's not thank him, he was late.
 * slangasek nods
<gaughen> thank you everyone but slangasek
<slangasek> thanks, everyone but not me!
<gaughen> ;-)
<cyphermox> :D
<rbalint> :-)
<sil2100> ;p
<aisrael> Is it too late to have myself added to the membership board meeting at 22:00 utc today?
<sil2100> aisrael: you mean the meeting next week on Monday, right?
<sil2100> aisrael: I would say feel free to announce yourself, we can then try taking care of your application
<aisrael> sil2100: I thought it was first thursday of the month - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<sil2100> Ah, oh, I thought you meant the Developer Membership Board meeting
<sil2100> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard
<sil2100> In that case, ignore me
<aisrael> sil2100: I've Oh, sorry!
<aisrael> Although Developer membship might be next
<aisrael> In any case, if someone with wiki powers could edit that page to move me to the 22:00 slot, I'd appreciate it. I'll also email the list, just in case.
 * pleia2 waves from 2200 Membership Board
 * aisrael waves back
 * lazyPower releases baloons
 * wxl looms ominously 
<pleia2> ok, do we have 4 board members here?
<pleia2> o/ marcoceppi
<pleia2> alright, we'll get started and hopefully we'll have one more show up before the vote
<pleia2> #startmeeting 2200 UTC Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun  1 22:03:37 2017 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<pleia2> hi everyone, welcome to the Membership Board meeting!
<pleia2> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<pleia2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> #topic aisrael Membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | 2200 UTC Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: aisrael Membership
<pleia2> aisrael: the floor is yours :)
<aisrael> Hi everyone. I'm Adam, a longtime-ubuntu user (since it was no-name-yet linux), and a Canonical employee going on three years now.
<aisrael> Most of my time has been spent on the server side of things, when I ran a busy ad serving engine on Ubuntu, handling up to 1B requests/day on a relatively small number of servers.
<aisrael> These days, I work on Juju and Open Source Mano (telco stuff), run Ubuntu at home, and do little bits of work on desktop apps when the itch strikes me.
<aisrael> My wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdamIsrael
<aisrael> and my launchpad profile is here: https://launchpad.net/~aisrael
<pleia2> ooh the asterisk charm, used much asterisk in production? (it's a beast)
<aisrael> and my github, for completion: https://github.com/AdamIsrael
<aisrael> pleia2: Not yet, but my hope is to get it to production quality.
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> nice to see from a testimonal that you've also worked to help others get their charms written :)
<pleia2> anyone else have any questions for aisrael?
<aisrael> That's a large part of my current duties. I've been working with many of the telco's involved in OSM to write charms for their networking apps
<wxl> whoa OSM is pretty freaking cool.
<lazyPower> I can personally vouch for aisrael's dedication to the cause. He's been a stellar community member helping others
<lazyPower> i think i left a testimonial some time ago, but i thought i'd lend my 2 cents
<marcoceppi> aisrael: have you done much with your LOCO?
<wxl> marcoceppi: seems that's on his todo list
<marcoceppi> That it does seem
<wxl> XD
<aisrael> marcoceppi: Not since I moved. There isn't a local LOCO, unfortunately, but I'm going to work with the local hackspace to start one up
<marcoceppi> cool, thanks!
<aisrael> I started the original Chicago LOCO many years ago, so I'm vaguely familiar with the process. ;)
<wxl> yeah no questions over here
<pleia2> alright, gonna see if I can drag in another board member here to see if we can move this to voting ;)
<tsimonq2> Hello :)
<tsimonq2> o/
<pleia2> yay!
<pleia2> #voters pleia2 wxl marcoceppi tsimonq2
<meetingology> Current voters: marcoceppi pleia2 tsimonq2 wxl
<aisrael> Howdy :)
 * tsimonq2 looks over everything
<tsimonq2> I'm ready to vote, pleia2 et al.
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> #vote Ubuntu Membership for aisrael
<meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu Membership for aisrael
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<wxl> +1 keep up the good work!!!
<meetingology> +1 keep up the good work!!! received from wxl
<marcoceppi> +1 great work so far!
<meetingology> +1 great work so far! received from marcoceppi
<tsimonq2> +1 Keep up the awesome work!
<meetingology> +1 Keep up the awesome work! received from tsimonq2
<pleia2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu Membership for aisrael
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
 * lazyPower chants "one of us, one of us"
<tsimonq2> \o/
<pleia2> congrats and welcome aisrael :D
<tsimonq2> XD lazyPower
<pleia2> I'll get you added to the members team momentarily
<aisrael> \m/ thanks everyone!
<dpb1> gratz aisrael
<tsimonq2> Congrats aisrael :D
<marcoceppi> woot woot!
<wxl> congrats aisrael
<wxl> to be fair it was a no brainer :)
<tsimonq2> ^
<tsimonq2> Which is why I decided so fast :D
<aisrael> Aww shucks. That's very appreciated.
<pleia2> alright, that's all for today then :)
<pleia2> thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun  1 22:19:11 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-06-01-22.03.moin.txt
<popey> +1 ;)
<wxl> the nerve, popey, the nerve
<popey> :D
 * wxl crawls back into the Ã¦ther
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-28
<summertime4> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<summertime4> !ops
<DalekSec> Yes, summertime4?
<summertime4> what?
<DalekSec> You are triggering the '!ops' factoid, I'd hope you weren't doing it needlessly.  Need something?
<summertime4> no, I am doing fine right now. I did not need the ops
<DalekSec> Then by all means, quit playing with the bot.
<summertime4> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-29
<Workerallday> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<Workerallday> !ops
<Workerallday> !ops
<genii> I wonder what that was about
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-31
<rbalint> o/
<philroche> \o
 * rcj is out
<doko> looks quiet here ...
<bdmurray> philroche: can you start the meeting?
<philroche> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 31 15:13:13 2018 UTC.  The chair is philroche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<philroche> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<philroche> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<philroche> sil2100 juliank tdaitx doko Odd_Bloke cyphermox rcj philroche mwhudson xnox rbalint bdmurray slangasek infinity fginther
<bdmurray> sil2100 is out I believe
<bdmurray> and juliank and tdaitx
<bdmurray> so doko?
<philroche> fginther is out too
<doko> - gcc-7 / gcc-8 updates again, and update the cross packges
<doko> - python 3.7.0 beta5
<doko> - openjdk-11 update
<doko> - transitions continued
<doko> - SRUs for llvm-defaults, python-pip, ncurses, binutils
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> Odd_Bloke:
<Odd_Bloke> * Partner visits last week, playing catch-up
<Odd_Bloke> * Started work to reintroduce .tar.xz for cosmic and bionic cloud images (LP: #1585233)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1585233 in cloud-images "Provide -root.tar.xz for bionic and later" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585233
<Odd_Bloke> * Cloud image vanguarding, fixed a couple of internal build issues
<Odd_Bloke> * Booked travel for upcoming sprints, filed expenses for sprints gone by
<Odd_Bloke> * Worked to get python-flask to migrate in cosmic (by submitting patches to Debian)
<Odd_Bloke> * Did some work on the python-numpy transition (submitted a patch to Debian, requested an upload of a newer version to Debian, some badtest'ing)
<Odd_Bloke> (done)
<Odd_Bloke> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> argh
<cyphermox> I'm there, just a sec
<cyphermox> - netplan 0.38 release prep
<cyphermox>   - fixing autopkgtests
<cyphermox> - netplan advanced network features planning
<cyphermox> - livecd-rootfs cleanup grub diversions
<cyphermox> - debugging livecd-rootfs autopkgtests
<cyphermox> - fixed update-manager high CPU usage on "reboot" dialog (bug LP: #1637180)
<cyphermox> - debugged netplan/systemd/cloud-init renaming issue
<cyphermox>   - submitted udev patch to follow renames in config .link files
<cyphermox>   - patched netplan (for SRU) to rename using udev rules
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1637180 in update-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) ""The computer needs to restart" dialog constantly eats CPU" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637180
<cyphermox>   - identified cloud-init issue breaking rename in some scenarios (LP: #1773397)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1773397 in cloud-init (Ubuntu) "cloud-init renames interfaces at every boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773397
<cyphermox> (done)
<rcj> rcj:
<rcj> * cloud image build machinery and skulduggery
<rcj> * skunkworks
<rcj> (done)
<rcj> philroche:
<philroche> * CPC build system vanguard
<philroche> * Cloud image update verification
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> xnox:
<xnox> * finishing up v238 systemd merge
<xnox> * uploaded a few / & /usr file path conflict resolutions
<xnox> * btrfs-progs migrated to testing and cosmic
<xnox> * mdadm validated and looks mostly good
<xnox>  - however, there is still grub-install 4k bug to investigate
<xnox>  - help needed with it bug #1758038
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1758038 could not be found
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1758038
<xnox> team ^ help wanted =)
<xnox> done, next
<rbalint>  (short week)
<rbalint> * fixes to gce-compute-image-packages in Trusty
<rbalint> * fix frequently crashing update-manager in bionic (on review, LP: #1773316 and many other duplicates)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1773316 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:ValueError:foreach_cb:packages_are_selected:is_selected:marked_install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773316
<rbalint> * work i can't report here
<rbalint> * discussions about the full unattended-upgrades 1.2 SRU
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> submitted RT re reallocation of retracer units (failed queue to regular queue)
<bdmurray> modified error tracker charms to improve setting / switching of cassandra server
<bdmurray> tested switching of cassandra server in staging Error Tracker
<bdmurray> added upstream developers to the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> review and merging of paelzer's britney SRU hints merge proposals
<bdmurray> tested distribution upgrade bug 1769954 again?
<ubottu> bug 1769954 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu) "package desktop-file-utils 0.23-1ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769954
<bdmurray> replied to mojo spec RT re success of switching servers
<bdmurray> uploaded lsvpd fixing lsmcode (LP: #1751986)
<bdmurray> fix apport CVE bug LP: #1746668
<bdmurray> uploaded Bionic apport SRU fixing (LP: #1766794, 1766740, 1769262, 1773012)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1751986 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "[LTCTest][OPAL][OP920] lsmcode -A is not showing any output" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1751986
<bdmurray> short week due to some holiday
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1746668 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1769262 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "PythonDetails contains an error message if python not installed" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1773012 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "kernel bugs in bionic are reported about linux-signed and package hook doesn't run" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766740 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport autopkgtest regression due to kernel packaging changes" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766740
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766794 in apport (Ubuntu Bionic) "apport-collect doesn't create a ProblemType in the report" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766794
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> slangasek:
<slangasek> hi
<slangasek>  * short week, customer travel and bank holiday
<slangasek>  * and under the weather
<slangasek>  * worked on moving ubuntu seeds to git branches
<slangasek>  * worked on unsticking proposed-migration transitions (largely without success)
<slangasek> (done)
<philroche> infinity:
<bdmurray> fginther is out right?
<philroche> Correct. Moving on to AOB
<philroche> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> Nothing from me
<rbalint> i's like to get feedback on u-u sru
<rbalint> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-May/004479.html
<rbalint> i'd
<rbalint> so we we can move it forward
<bdmurray> I'll try and take a look at it, but maybe we should just discuss it at the sprint.
<rbalint> bdmurray, ok, thanks!
<philroche> Thank you all
<philroche> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 31 15:40:46 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-05-31-15.13.moin.txt
<tribaal> damn I missed it!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-06-03
<stremer> TESTING TESTING
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-28
<cpaelzer> didrocks: cyphermox: doko: jdstrand_: jamespage: MIR ping
<doko> \o/
<cpaelzer> o/ doko
<doko> so what is new? probert
<jamespage> o/
<cpaelzer> yeah probert is the only one I know of
<cpaelzer> I was asked to file it in the team, so I can't self review myself
<cpaelzer> but this one seems straight forward to me
<cpaelzer> might even need no security review
<cpaelzer> but all that is up to anyone who has time to grab it for review
<doko> libbluray?
<cpaelzer> not in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> where did you find that doko ?
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libbluray/+bug/1746629
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1746629 in libbluray (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libbluray" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> ?
<doko> just saw the new comment
<cpaelzer> the one about JDK 11
<cpaelzer> This lacks a reference where the issue got fixed, maybe it is just upstream but not yet in the package
<cpaelzer> have you taken a look already?
<cpaelzer> or you ask jbicha to re-evaluate it now?
<cpaelzer> on the bug
<doko> no, I think I just checked the deps
<didrocks> hey!
<didrocks> I don't think jbicha is active anymore
<didrocks> so we probably shouldn't wait on him
<doko> ohh, gone?
<didrocks> yep :/
<cpaelzer> oh
<cpaelzer> didrocks: is this still a demand for the desktop team?
<cpaelzer> and if so would you assign someone else then jbicha then?
<doko> it's for gvfs, so does the desktop team wants to continue that one?
<didrocks> cpaelzer: I'll raise that to our team meeting in the AOB and will keep you posted
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-dbus-proxy/+bug/1811824 might be similar
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1811824 in xdg-dbus-proxy (Ubuntu) "[MIR] xdg-dbus-proxy" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> opened by jbicha
<cpaelzer> got an update by jdstrand_
<cpaelzer> reading a lot of text ...
<didrocks> I'll raise that one as well, don't worry for now
<cpaelzer> but it got an ack
<cpaelzer> so it seems the next step is make it be pulled in
<cpaelzer> have you talked about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usbguard/+bug/1816548 last week ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1816548 in usbguard (Ubuntu) "[MIR] usbguard" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cpaelzer> the TL;DR is plenty of reasons to say no for now
<didrocks> I was at a sprint last week, so no meeting, but same, adding to the AOB
<cpaelzer> ok
<cpaelzer> everything else is much older and was covered in the past
<didrocks> I'll ensure things get move and report this back next week :)
<cpaelzer> that circles back if anyone could pick up the review of probert (which is what we have left open)
<cpaelzer> I see no volunteers :-)
<pavlushka> cpaelzer: here?
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-30
 * vorlon waves
<sil2100> o/
<tdaitx> o/
<waveform> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<waveform> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<waveform> #topic Lightning rounds
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 30 15:04:04 2019 UTC.  The chair is waveform. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<waveform> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<waveform> doko juliank waveform infinity sil2100 vorlon tdaitx cyphermox rbalint bdmurray mwhudson xnox
<vorlon> doko: are you here?
<bdmurray> waveform: why don't you go?
<waveform> okey dokey
<waveform> * u-boot merge from debian/sid
<waveform> * testing merged u-boot with eoan-nightly on pi2, pi3, etc. etc.
<waveform> * confirmed pi3 nightly armhf image still works on pi2; should be fine to remove pi2 images from eoan
<waveform> * responding to comments on pi "amazing" spec
<waveform> * PR'd changes to seed cloud-init from boot partition (still need to push changes to livecd-rootfs for this to actually work, but the seed files are now in the right place)
<waveform> * discussed merging bluetooth updates from classic to core
<waveform> (done)
<bdmurray> infinity isn't in the channel
<waveform> sil2100, ?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - SRU meeting
<sil2100> - Britney's SRU ADT regression reporting:
<sil2100>   * Still running in dry-run mode
<sil2100>   * Fixed state save and restore, added some test coverage
<sil2100>   * Checked if things seem to be working correctly and so far everything looks good
<sil2100> - Merged Dave's pi3-gadget classic changes
<sil2100> - Fixed failing raspi3 builds due to missing multiverse-enabled sources.list in pi3-gadget's recently merged changes
<sil2100> - Investigated and fixed core18's FTBFS caused by ubuntu-base tarballs now shipping empty /dev
<sil2100> - DMB duties
<sil2100> - More poking regarding testing of the security-only toolchain rebuilds
<sil2100> - Prepared GKE-related changes for docker.io and containerd, updated the containerd version for their PPA
<sil2100> - Some NEW re-reviews
<sil2100> - Pi Bluetooth meeting sync
<sil2100> - Looking into various ways of solving the /boot/grub classic gadget-based image thingy
<sil2100> (done)
<waveform> vorlon?
<vorlon>  * SRUs: getting closer to openssl 1.1.1 packageset being releasable to bionic
<vorlon>  * SRU team meeting, good discussions, will lead to some minor updates to the SRU policy which I'm on the hook to draft
<vorlon>  * out of office tomorrow for a customer visit in the Bay
<vorlon>  * discussions around Netplan features for 19.10
<vorlon> (done)
<tdaitx> * trying to get bionic/cosmic/disco fixes released for tomcat8, netbeans, and scilab (LP: #1825604, LP: #1828427, LP: #1825037, LP: #1827090)
<tdaitx> * no reproducer for LP: #1811695, discussing gathered data with juliank
<tdaitx> * working on report tool for packages removed from debian that may affect proposed
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - reading through the FUD on openjdk builds (ML, Y combinator, twitter)
<tdaitx> - testing debian's proposed openjdk watch file (based on mercurial instead of upstream tarballs)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825604 in netbeans (Ubuntu) "Netbeans 10 requires openjdk-11" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825604
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828427 in netbeans (Debian) "Netbeans fails to create a java project with NoSuchMethodError" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825037 in scilab (Ubuntu) "scilab-cli and scilab-adv-cli does not start on bionic, cosmic, disco and eoan" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1827090 in tomcat8 (Ubuntu) ""-1" instead of "8005" in tomcat8-instance-create" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1827090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1811695 in update-manager (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/bin/update-manager:RuntimeError(org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.RuntimeError):_on_clicked:_deferable..." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811695
<tdaitx> cyphermox: go!
<cyphermox> I was sick on Tuesday :(
<cyphermox> netplan OVS integration brainstorm
<cyphermox> debugging NetworkManager autopkgtests failure on ppc64el
<cyphermox> initial porting NM autopkgtests to gir1.2-nm-1.0
<cyphermox> travel planning/booking
<cyphermox> started grub2 merge
<cyphermox> partner work
<cyphermox> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint is out
<waveform> bdmurray, then you're up :)
<bdmurray> modified apport contents mapping file to include more paths for executables
<bdmurray> tested apport changes in staging error tracker (good!)
<bdmurray> submitted MP and RT regarding deploying apport r3251 in production
<bdmurray> submitted RT re retracers failing to connect to cassandra
<bdmurray> helped IS resolve an issue with firewall configs for the Error Tracker
<bdmurray> created better retracer retracing result graphs
<bdmurray> special SRU reviews of software-properties, mutter, gnome-shell, epiphany-browser
<bdmurray> Ubuntu SRU team meeting
<bdmurray> investigation into tar and xattrs support
<bdmurray> short week as Monday was a US holiday
<bdmurray> done
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> my turn
<xnox> * reviewed and uploaded some systemd patches into eoan
<xnox> * fixedup -perl bionic openssl SRUs
<xnox> * fixedup disco openssl SRU
<xnox> * worked on secureboot for s390x packaging changes / proof of concept
<xnox> * trying to chase steam-runtime maintainers
<xnox> * made a few (dead)livefs-rootfs merge proposals to prune things
<xnox> * confused about preffered initrd compression algo
<xnox> = Blocked on =
<xnox> SRU bionic
<xnox> * libnet-ssleay-perl (1m 25 days)
<xnox> * libww-perl  (9 days)
<xnox> * libio-socket-ssl-perl (0 days)
<xnox> * finalrd SRU bionic NEW (7 days)
<xnox> SRU cosmic NEW
<xnox> * python-tornado4 (1m 25 days)
<xnox> SRU disco
<xnox> * openssl (1 day)
<xnox> end
<waveform> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<waveform> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> bug 1821252
<ubottu> bug 1821252 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu Eoan) "systemctl set-default breaks recovery mode" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1821252
<xnox> yeah, i should take it
<bdmurray> It looks like support is working on it
<xnox> it looks legit
<bdmurray> so we could tag it notfixing since foundations isn't working on it
<xnox> bdmurray:  i can't tell if support is working on it; or if they are having a "community hobby" to apply for coredev
<bdmurray> xnox: its tagged sts
<xnox> bdmurray:  ah interesting.
<xnox> bdmurray:  i should at least merge it into upstream / eoan
<bdmurray> well we can drop the rls-ee-incoming tag at least since it has an Eoan task
<xnox> yeah
<bdmurray> If you do the Eoan bit that's great. So moving on
<bdmurray> we talked about bug 1494851 last week but its not clear to me if its an issue in Eoan
<ubottu> bug 1494851 in cryptsetup (Ubuntu) "initramfs cryptroot hook script doesn't install cryptsetup if keyfile but no keyscript" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494851
<xnox> it's not an issue in Eoan, because of the package split
<xnox> only older releases
<xnox> and i did say last week i will look into it..... but failed
<bdmurray> so then we should flip it to Fix Released for Eoan
<xnox> ok
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> bug 1218702 I feel like we talked about that too
<ubottu> bug 1218702 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity resizes partition even when not asked to." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218702
<vorlon> yeah, declined to commit
<vorlon> (bdmurray fixing tags)
<bdmurray> bug 1779639
<ubottu> bug 1779639 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not always trigger apport for existing crashes" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1779639
<sil2100> That's like from last year
<sil2100> That's so 2018
<bdmurray> I think the question is the scope of impact
<bdmurray> I don't think its that bad b/c you do get notified of the crash eventually.
<waveform> #topic Team proposed-migration report
<waveform> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> the lxml/pandas ppc64el failure doesn't want to clear w/ retries
<vorlon> does someone want to dig into that?
<xnox> ew
<xnox> i hate pandas
<sil2100> I can try looking at it
<vorlon> yes
<vorlon> sil2100: thanks :)
<vorlon> ubiquity is blocked by needing the flavors' seeds updated before landing the package split
<vorlon> I will take that one for followup
<vorlon> everything else on there is new and reasonable
<vorlon> (known flaky tests, etc)
<xnox> vorlon:  well. it's in progress. i've been talking to Wimpress and budgie people.
<waveform> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<vorlon> xnox: ah excellent, thanks
<vorlon> xnox: ("in progress" - how long does it take to update the seed?)
<xnox> vorlon:  i may proposed / upload status-quo uploads for budgie if there is no response next week.
<xnox> vorlon:  just being polite
<vorlon> :)
<vorlon> I have no other business
<xnox> i'm going to watch French Tennis Open on Saturday in Paris =)
<xnox> roland garros or whoever it is
<waveform> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 30 15:35:59 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-05-30-15.04.moin.txt
<vorlon> waveform: thanks!
<vorlon> and thanks, all
<gaughen> thank you waveform
<sil2100> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-26
<cpaelzer> pre-ping for MIR Meeting - sarnold doko didrocks ddstreet jamespage joeubuntu
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> afternoon/good morning
<ddstreet> o/
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> hiho, let us get this started
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<sarnold> good morning
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 26 14:31:49 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> no open actions left
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> this will be intereting this week :-)
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cpaelzer> many things were mentioned before
<didrocks> FYI, I will take care of appstream
<cpaelzer> so we don't need to talk about maas or apport
<cpaelzer> thanks for appstream didrocks
<cpaelzer> heat is on jamespage and he is aware (last week)
<cpaelzer> two entries are new
<cpaelzer> kazoo -> some pytohn libs
<cpaelzer> does anyone know wht we have kazoo for?
 * jamespage sighs
<jamespage> guess
<cpaelzer> so it is part of your (ka)zoo of packages jamespage
<cpaelzer> can we leave it to you unless you call out ot us then?
<jamespage> yah
<cpaelzer> ok, now the more awkward case
<cpaelzer> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfile-desktopentry-perl into ... a lot
<cpaelzer> I was pinging on #ubuntu-devel a few minutes ago if this is known with the people on +1 duty
<sarnold> wow
<cpaelzer> but at least paride didn't hear anything
<sarnold> here's the diff from focal https://launchpadlibrarian.net/480983756/libfile-desktopentry-perl_0.22-1_0.22-2.diff.gz -- I can'
<cpaelzer> I was checking dependencies Focal vs Groovy
<sarnold> can't spot anything that looks related either..
<cpaelzer> Recommends: x-terminal-emulator
<cpaelzer> that is new
<cpaelzer> is that a provides that randomly pulls in any of the providers?
<cpaelzer> yep
<cpaelzer> I'd assume we have gnome-terminal in main didrocks right?
<didrocks> of course :)
<cpaelzer> so this is a case where I think I need to touch the tools rendering this report
<sarnold> similar to the apport -> terminator thing?
<cpaelzer> it is as apport->terminator
<cpaelzer> yeah
<cpaelzer> let me take this as an action
<didrocks> yeah, alternatives and provides are complex between apt and livecd-rootfs build
<cpaelzer> ok, I've taken a note
<cpaelzer> no promise it will work, but I'll have taken a look by next week
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<sarnold> :)
<cpaelzer> this contains only one which is the one to complete jamespage trio of todos toda
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> the one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jeepney/+bug/1861268
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1861268 in jeepney (Ubuntu) "[MIR] jeepney" [Undecided,New]
<cpaelzer> jamespage: you did the review and then you postponed it until >20.04
<cpaelzer> I think this is ready now and in the past you said it needs security
<cpaelzer> so if you could give it a quick look and if that is correct assign the security team for a review?
<cpaelzer> that probably is a 1 min task for you jamespage and then a new trello card in the queue for sarnold
<cpaelzer> ok to leaver that with you jamespage?
<cpaelzer> s/leaver/leave/
<jamespage> yep - I can re-visit as I think we agreed todo this this cycle
<cpaelzer> ok, bug assigned to you
<jamespage> ta
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<sarnold> another bug currently in Incomplete but perhaps raising at the moment is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openscap/+bug/1877696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877696 in openscap (Ubuntu) "[MIR] openscap" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<jamespage> kazoo - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tooz/+bug/1880705
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1880705 in python-tooz (Ubuntu) "Make depends on python3-kazoo -> Suggests" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> btw
<cpaelzer> there was only one update where doko pinged on a bug
<cpaelzer> nothing to discuss here
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> therefore we can go on to
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<cpaelzer> ok we got fast and efficient - <15 min despite having content in most categories
<cpaelzer> anything from anyone that needs to be discussed here?
<cpaelzer> ok then we will stop (some new and interesting counting methods) at 300
<cpaelzer> 0.03
<cpaelzer> 0.3
<cpaelzer> 3
<cpaelzer> 30
<cpaelzer> 300
<didrocks> :)
<cpaelzer> ok we are good, thanks everyone
<sarnold> :) thanks!
<cpaelzer> see you next week
<ddstreet> o/
<didrocks> thanks!
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 26 14:45:26 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-26-14.31.moin.txt
<jamespage> thanks cpaelzer
<luna_> also i remembered todays Firefox 77 Meeting collides so can't attend anyways :P
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-28
<slyon> o/
<sil2100> o/
<xnox> \o
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 28 15:01:11 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<juliank> o/
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<rbalint> o/
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> mwhudson xnox tdaitx infinity slyon rbalint waveform doko sil2100 juliank bdmurray vorlon
<bdmurray> xnox:
<xnox> xnox/mwhudson: unpopulated ESP is now always created in ubiquity (TODO sru)
<xnox> xnox/mwhudson: picking the right disk in ubiquity should work now too (TODO sru)
<xnox> xnox/mwhudson: interactive netboot is now available (TODO sru)
<xnox> Fixed up components-missmatches for built-using, i386, community-maas (TODO some reviews outstanding)
<xnox> Migrated s390x debian-cd off d-i
<xnox> Prepared cd-boot-images package to migrate the other .isos off d-i (Needs NEW review)
<xnox> Tajik fonts finally fixed in gfxboot (TODO sru)
<xnox> Available for +1 maintenance as a substitute, if one needs it
<xnox> done
<bdmurray> tdaitx: are you about or bailing water?
<bdmurray> okay, how about slyon
<slyon> == Distro ==
<slyon> - Finally fixed python-httplib2 autopkgtest
<slyon>   * included test suite in upstream tarball
<slyon>   * prepared 0.18.1-1 release for Debian
<slyon>   * use new test suite for autopkgtest, skip failing network tests
<slyon> - Learned and setup about Canonistack cloud account
<slyon>   * Could be used for reproducible autopkgtests (net/proxy restrictions)
<slyon> - Finalized mathjax MIR, bug #1878937
<slyon> == Netplan ==
<ubottu> bug 1878937 in mathjax (Ubuntu) "[MIR] mathjax" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878937
<slyon> - Fixed netplan.io documentation, bug #1878631
<slyon> - Confirmed bug #1878928 is a duplicate
<slyon> - Research and discussed support for VRF devices, bug #1773522
<ubottu> bug 1878631 in netplan "netplan.io documentation incorrect in 20.04 netplan" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878631
<slyon> - Review & merge PR#84: nm: support route attributes and interface globbing
<ubottu> bug 1878928 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "Call trace occurred when running `netplan apply` after an yaml is removed" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878928
<slyon> - Prepared PR#140: itegration tests for interface globbing and NM routing
<ubottu> bug 1773522 in netplan "[RFE] add support for VRF devices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773522
<slyon> - Working on PR#142: OpenVSwitch Bonds
<slyon> (done)
<bdmurray> rbalint:
<rbalint> * +1 maintenance https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2020-May/041012.html
<rbalint> * proposed-migration: libcatmandu-sru-perl, libyaml-libyaml-perl, etc.
<rbalint> * systemd bug fixes
<rbalint> * partner work
<rbalint> * kodi 18.7 upload via Debian + merge
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * Built raspberrypi-userland packages for pi camera support on armhf and arm64 (and performed cursory verification of all utilities); currently working through myriad lintian warnings
<waveform> * Verified python-apt SRUs (LP: #1311056), pending autopkgtest re-runs
<waveform> * Built flash-kernel with core-20 boot script (for LP: #1871831)
<waveform> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1311056 in python-apt (Ubuntu Eoan) "[SRU] apt-add-repository adds duplicate commented/disabled source lines" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1311056
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1871831 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "Consolidate Core and Classic bootscripts" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1871831
<bdmurray> doko is out
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Active work with the snapd team on the UC20 beta release
<sil2100> - Added handling for dangerous-<channel> image builds for UC20 in livecd-rootfs and cdimage
<sil2100>   * Pushed it to the UC20 PPA + merged into LP branches, need SRUing
<sil2100>   * Did some cdimage cleanup as well
<sil2100> - PR reviews for UC20
<sil2100> - Looked into the reasoning for some mkfs.ext4 flags used in snapd
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * PR reviews
<sil2100>   * Looking into helping out with SRUs for a regression fix
<sil2100>   * A bit more code reviewing of the NM netplan plugin
<sil2100>   * Work on some SR-IOV improvements
<sil2100>   * Looking into OVS bridges
<sil2100> - Manually tinkering/fixing old 18-pi3 pi-gadget snap to include missing bluetooth slots
<sil2100> - Re-merged the ActivationMode PR for systemd networkd, waiting for upstream
<sil2100> - Iterated on some core image builds
<sil2100> - Looking into tooling for simplestreams generation (for images) - started tinkering one manually
<bdmurray> sil2100: what regression fix?
<sil2100> - NEW review of nvidia-graphics-drivers-440-server
<sil2100> (done)
<bdmurray> juliank:
<juliank> * performed a clean install of 20.04 on my old x230 -- full disk encrypted ZFS zsys setup (aes-256-gcm encryption) -- and discovered bug 1880564
<ubottu> bug 1880564 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-drivers-common now pulls in build tools on end-user systems" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880564
<juliank> * apt commit review
<juliank> * released apt 2.1.5 with more solver fixes, still bugs remaining :/
<juliank> * fixed a few bugs in apt-solver-kalel to check how it interacts on those bugs
<juliank> * finally approved ddstreet's software-properties merge request
<juliank> * prodding people
<juliank> * email and bug triage
<juliank> (done)
<bdmurray> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> SRU verification of apport bug LP: #1774843
<bdmurray> paramiko -proposed migration investigation (missing dir - 960899)
<bdmurray> worked with philroche regarding livecd-rootfs SRU
<bdmurray> reported subiquity bug LP: #1880244
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1774843 in apport (Ubuntu Focal) "apport python exception for python versions which python-apt is not built on" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774843
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1880244 in subiquity "subiquity does not include a SystemIdentifier in its crash reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880244
<bdmurray> uploaded imagemagick fixing LP: #1447968
<bdmurray> clarified upgrade command differences for 18.04 TLS in release notes
<bdmurray> updated auto-upgrade-testing-specifications for focal -> groovy testing
<bdmurray> reported update-manager bug LP: #1880996
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1447968 in imagemagick (Ubuntu) "ImageMagick is missing JPEG2000 support (needs to be built with openjpeg)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447968
<sil2100> bdmurray: bleh, I regressed a certain case of handling interface renaming while refactoring some code
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1880996 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "two different debug options" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880996
<bdmurray> reported / investigated update-manager bug LP: #1880987
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for LP: #1826213 to groovy, wrote a test case for it too
<bdmurray> sent email to ubuntu-devel re block-proposed-<series> and -v for changelogs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1880987 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:TypeError:_on_finished:_action_done:get_deb2snap_dups:_on_finished:_action_done:get_deb2snap_dups" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880987
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1826213 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/update-manager:AttributeError:/usr/bin/update-manager@118:start_update:start_available:refresh_cache:update" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826213
<sil2100> bdmurray: I'll be assisting in SRUing the fix for that
<bdmurray> sil2100: got it, thanks
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<vorlon>  * out Monday and Tuesday
<vorlon>  * Wednesday and Thursday, working on +1 maintenance; more detailed accounting to follow on mailing list
<vorlon>   * working on the big gdal/gsl/hdf5/proj/qt transition, mostly down in the weeds on numeric packages and retrying their autopkgtests with the right triggers
<vorlon>   * number of packages made uninstallable by the transition reduced from 2k+ to 579 in the past day or so
<vorlon>   * h5py should be clear to go soon also
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> any questions on status?
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> sorting by importance (vorlon!)
<vorlon> :)
<bdmurray> dbus timeout is desktop
<bdmurray> bug 1833174 seems to be fixed upstream
<ubottu> bug 1833174 in vim (Ubuntu) " Shadowing the vim-window results in vim-gtk3 crash" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1833174
<bdmurray> seems like a good one to SRU for 20.04
<bdmurray> so lets card that one
<bdmurray> bug 1870189
<ubottu> bug 1870189 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "initramfs does not get loaded" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870189
<vorlon> that's about the behavior of the cpc images, so cpc should pick it up rather than us
<bdmurray> okay mclemenceau can you notify them about that bug?
<juliank> cpc-welp :D
<bdmurray> bug 1873545
<ubottu> bug 1873545 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Permission denied error from show-motd when updates available" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873545
<bdmurray> rbalint: that has a fix merged?
<rbalint> yes
<bdmurray> so if its being worked lets target it and remove the tag
<bdmurray> What does foundations need to do here?
<bdmurray> Upload u-r-u?
<rbalint> release the package, yes
<rbalint> and probably sru
<bdmurray> okay, it'll need a test case and stuff though but desktop can do that
<bdmurray> bug 1427600
<ubottu> bug 1427600 in apport (Ubuntu Xenial) "apport-unpack: ValueError: ['UserGroups'] has no binary content" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427600
<juliank> i saw this too
<sil2100> Wow, that's an old one
<bdmurray> let's take and card that
<bdmurray> and make users surprised we fixed it
<bdmurray> bug 1880197
<ubottu> bug 1880197 in shim-signed (Ubuntu) "ephemeral key used to sign mokmanager should have better certificate attributes" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880197
<vorlon> this is marked low and I think that's accurate; notfixing?
<bdmurray> okay
<xnox> sure
<bdmurray> bug 1880259
<ubottu> bug 1880259 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "please build a monolithic powerpc.elf" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880259
<vorlon> xnox: do we still need this, or is it superseded by your cd-boot-images package work?
<vorlon> seems like we should ignore these for now, and next week we will have more information about whether we should do this in grub or use the cd-boot-images package
<bdmurray> then bug 1880250
<ubottu> bug 1880250 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "disk check progress no longer visible" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880250
<bdmurray> bug 1879496
<ubottu> bug 1879496 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "upgrade-from-grub-legacy: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME is required" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1879496
<juliank> Do we really need this in like groovy?
<juliank> who upgrades from grub legacy to grub2 in which releases?
<vorlon> if we're not going to ever forcibly transition users to grub2 as part of the upgrade, the script needs to stay around
<vorlon> otoh it's amazing that the script has apparently been unusable for 4 years and this is the first bug report
<vorlon> for literally years
<juliank> anyway sounds like an easy thing to do
<bdmurray> so let's target and card that too
<juliank> +1
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> sorting by descending date created
<bdmurray> bug 1880853
<ubottu> bug 1880853 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "libc6-lse lets update-initramfs fail on AWS m6g instances" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880853
<rbalint> i think we should take that
<bdmurray> rbalint: why?
<rbalint> it is installed by default on such instances and those can't upgrade
<bdmurray> okay, lets fix that then
<bdmurray> rbalint: you also tagged bug 1880541
<ubottu> bug 1880541 in systemd (Ubuntu) "package udev 245.4-4ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: podproces zainstalowany pakiet udev skrypt post-installation returned error code 1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1880541
<bdmurray> should we target that for 20.04.1?
<rbalint> bdmurray, i think so
<bdmurray> we already talked about the plymouth bug
<bdmurray> bug 1879592
<ubottu> bug 1879592 in netplan.io (Ubuntu) "Netplan does not apply at boot after upgrade to 20.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1879592
<bdmurray> slyon: have you seen this bug report?
<slyon> not yet.. just reading it
<slyon> not sure why it would work with 'netplan apply' but not on boot... I guess that is worth debugging
<ddstreet> slyon that looks like maybe lp #1860926
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1860926 in systemd (Ubuntu Bionic) "Ubuntu 20.04 Systemd fails to configure bridged network" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860926
<bdmurray> slyon: if you can ask a quick question and pop it to incomplete lets do that and revisit next week
<slyon> bdmurray, will do
<bdmurray> I think we can skip the subiquity ones
<bdmurray> bug 1876506
<ubottu> bug 1876506 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "eoan to focal upgrade hangs when lvm snapshot is present" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1876506
<bdmurray> I made an attempt to recreate this but it wasn't easy enough for me to do quickly
<bdmurray> juliank: it mentions grube-probe...
<cjwatson> vorlon: it's not the first bug report, https://bugs.debian.org/943387 was the first bug report :P
<ubottu> Debian bug 943387 in grub-pc "upgrade-from-grub-legacy: environment variable DPKG_MAINTSCRIPT_NAME is required" [Normal,Fixed]
<vorlon> cjwatson: oh :)
<cjwatson> but people have been slack about merging Debian into Ubuntu
<juliank> is that related to os-prober or stuff?
<vorlon> juliank: ^^ you're TIL
<juliank> I removed os-prober from my system because grub was unusable with snapshots with it
<bdmurray> I'm glad you fixed it for yourself. ;-)
<vorlon> heh
<juliank> I do use thin snapshots, though, they don't look different from normal volumes I believe, so it's not possible to ignore them
<bdmurray> To be fair I was hacking debian changelog vim syntax highlighting on my local system in the past week.
<vorlon> cjwatson: so the script was unusable for 3 years in Debian instead of 4 ;)
<vorlon> bdmurray: +1 for carding the lvm snapshot issue
<bdmurray> okay, lets move on to -proposed
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/groovy/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> numpy seems to have caused a real regression in python-meshio, we're waiting for upstream input; mclemenceau it doesn't look like you've opened an update-excuse bug on this yet?
<vorlon> mclemenceau reports that he's bisecting, so still in progress
<vorlon> perl is a candidate but tied into the big messy soname transition I'm working on
<vorlon> the next 2 are also dependent on perl
<vorlon> python-numpy blocking python-tz, who can take this?
<rbalint> i take that
<vorlon> rbalint: actually, python-tz generally please
<vorlon> (3 revdeps w/ autopkgtest regressions)
<rbalint> vorlon, i was about to suggest that
<vorlon> ta
<vorlon> netplan.io blocking network-manager on arm64 - slyon do you want to look at this? (might just require an autopkgtest retrigger, in which case you can ask on #ubuntu-release for us to do that)
<slyon> vorlon, yep, that's mine
<vorlon> thanks
<tdaitx> back
<vorlon> golang-defaults is probably a false-positive on autopkgtests since this is a minor package change only; I'll investigate
<vorlon> util-linux is a riscv64 build regression
<vorlon> anybody keen to debug util-linux build failure in a riscv64 qemu?
<xnox> $ rmadison libboost-wave-dev -s groovy
<xnox>  libboost-wave-dev | 1.71.0.0ubuntu2 | groovy/universe | i386
<xnox>  libboost-wave-dev | 1.71.0.0ubuntu4 | groovy/universe | amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
<xnox> $ rmadison libboost-wave-dev -s groovy
<xnox>  libboost-wave-dev | 1.71.0.0ubuntu2 | groovy/universe | i386
<xnox>  libboost-wave-dev | 1.71.0.0ubuntu4 | groovy/universe | amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
<xnox> $ rmadison libboost-wave-dev -s groovy
<xnox>  libboost-wave-dev | 1.71.0.0ubuntu2 | groovy/universe | i386
<xnox>  libboost-wave-dev | 1.71.0.0ubuntu4 | groovy/universe | amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
<xnox> bah
<xnox> sorry for spam
<vorlon> sounds like the cert team has riscv64 vms as a service
<vorlon> bdmurray: this is yours :)
<vorlon> python-secretstorage vs python3-jeepney, that's an MIR that was deferred last cycle
<vorlon> I'll chase it
<vorlon> vim, another riscv64 build regression
<vorlon> tdaitx: ^^ do you want to take this one?
<vorlon> git blocked on fdroidserver, I'll chase that
<tdaitx> vorlon: will do
<vorlon> tdaitx: thanks
<vorlon> apt-clone blocking make-dfsg: juliank ?
 * juliank takes apt-clone, dpkg blocks make-dfsg; and autopkgtest, update-notifier blocks apt
<juliank> so yes
<vorlon> juliank: does that mean you'll take all the make-dfsg blocks?
<juliank> I can try
<vorlon> thanks
<juliank> I know the others are pyflakes issues, and dpkg a weird make one
<vorlon> openjdk-8 blocking xorg-server
<vorlon> tdaitx: ^^ maybe you can knock this one out quickly while waiting on riscv64 vim builds :)
<tdaitx> wut? let me take a look at that
<juliank> (pyflakes issue ~ python2 pyflakes removed, need to use pyflakes3 instead)
<vorlon> :)
<vorlon> re2 is a candidate but stuck in the big transition
<vorlon> libre-engine-re2-perl, also blocked by perl transition
<vorlon> ucf vs mercurial on s390x
<vorlon> ISTR mercurial/s390x being flaky, so maybe easy
<rbalint> i retried
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> then rbalint can follow through on the results
<rbalint> ok
<vorlon> and fonts-dejavu looks like it has dropped the legacy ttf-* names and needs revdeps to transition
<vorlon> xnox: can you take this pile of wax?
<xnox> ok
<vorlon> ta
<vorlon> and that's the list
<vorlon> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<rbalint> i'll be out tomorrow and on Monday
<vorlon> ah yes, worth mentioning that I'm out next week
<slyon> i'll be out Monday as well
<mclemenceau> o/
 * bdmurray waves to mclemenceau 
<tdaitx> I am taking half-day off (afternoon) today and tomorrow
<bdmurray> Okay, I don't want to hear anybody taking time off
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 28 16:02:51 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-28-15.01.moin.txt
