#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-29
<fuertesfj> I need help or advise, I just installed ubuntu in my friends computer and it work perfectly fine and i installed it in my laptop and then i lost all my info can ANYONE HELP ME?
<fuertesfj> hello?
<MenZa> fuertesfj: You're probably better off asking in #ubuntu
<huats> morning everyone !
<cj> pitti: okay, disregard in that case.  Sorry for interrupting your time off.
<crevette> hey
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-30
<crevette> hey
<crevette> good morning
<crevette> hello
<crevette> huats, I think you can upload packages now, right ?
<huats> nope
<huats> hello crevette
<huats> not yet...
<huats> sorry..
<crevette> salut huats
<crevette> ah okay
<huats> I haven't applied yet...
<huats> I will in the next few week but not yet
<crevette> if someone can upload latest gedit https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+bug/312299
<huats> (and I am not sure I'll be granted once I have applied)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 312299 in gedit "[sponsoring] upload gedit 2.25.3" [Undecided,New]
<huats> crevette: hum
<huats> gedit is in main
<crevette> yep
<huats> so you need a core dev to do that
<crevette> okay
<huats> which is harder to find than a motu
<huats> I think there is no rush
<huats> leave it that way
<huats> you have subscribe the sponsors for main
<huats> so it will be tackle
<huats> don't worry :)
<huats> usually it is better to put the .dsc and the .diff directly in the bug
<huats> and so to have add a tag that will close that bug once it is proceed
<crevette> in the changelog ?
<huats> yep
<huats> (I haven't checked if you did it or not but since it is in your ppa I doubt :))
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-12-31
<Nafallo> anyone good with totem except seb, that isn't here?
<Nafallo> I have a problem with bacon ;-)
<cj> Nafallo: isn't benm good with totem?  I don't know whether he's on IRC anymore... I haven't seen him in a while...
<Nafallo> cj: no idea, but the forums solved it. kind of.
<cj> ah, what's the problem?
<Nafallo> cj: not entirely sure... bug 283592
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283592 in totem "bacon_video_widget_set_fullscreen" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283592
<cj> Nafallo: sounds like a compiz interop problem, eh?
<Nafallo> yea
 * cj checks out V_2_24_3 tag
<cj> I don't think I'll fix it for you, but I may be able to add some info to the bug for seb when he gets back from vacation
<Nafallo> kewl :-)
<cj> do you know whether you're using gst or xine?
<Nafallo> gstreamer
<Nafallo> I saw google results for the xine one as well though
<cj> do you know how to use gdb?
<Nafallo> cj: yea, but my computer got fixed, as documented in the bug report.
<cj> ah, no repro any longer, eh?
<cj> have you re-started your X session since the "fix"?
<Nafallo> don't think so.
<Nafallo> no idea
<cj> gdm re-starts X when you log out or reboot
 * Nafallo nods
<Nafallo> I know
<bluesmoke> Nafallo: Is this the "totem starts kind of fullscreen and kind of not" problem?
<cj> okay.  I was confused by "no idea" :)
<Nafallo> it was reproducable up until I did the steps documented.
<cj> Iiiinteresting. Turn off compiz, start totem, stop fullscreen, unmaximise, close totem, turn on compiz, start totem, VOILA!
<Nafallo> bluesmoke: you could say that, even if that's a non true description. it's fullscreen.
<Nafallo> cj: yea. that's the fix :-P
<Nafallo> it's like... magic
<bluesmoke> Is it fullscreen but shows the non-fullscreen GUI (and the fullscreen GUI too)
<cj> (past tense now)
<Nafallo> bluesmoke: ah. yea. I thought those were toggleable in usual fullscreen. apparently they aren't.
<bluesmoke> It's like...totam requests a window size larger than the screen, only gets the size of the screen allocated to it, then the wine compatibility stuff says "look, a window trying to be the size of the screen, that must be WINE running a fullscreen game" and makes it a fullscreen window
<cj> oh, wow.  this is deep magic.
<Nafallo> ehrm... this bug is Windows fault! :-P
<cj> sounds like the wine compat stuff needs to do a bit more process research before it makes these assumptions
<Amaranth> I know Danny was really interested in finding a way to reproduce this bug
<Amaranth> cj: It's not just for WINE, it's for all legacy apps that were made before we had a fullscreen window hint
<Nafallo> Amaranth: I did like... nothing. is just turned up one morning
<Amaranth> Nafallo: I know, it happens that way to me too
<cj> Amaranth: in that case it doesn't sound so easy..
<cj> maybe tell totem to check max screen size before requesting one...
<Nafallo> the "fix" in itself is just... WTF material
<Amaranth> Or figure out why compiz and metacity have similar code for handling this case but metacity doesn't have this problem :P
<Amaranth> That could take some time
<cj> that reminds me... has hp crawled out of the quagmire of management in the last year?
<Amaranth> Which hp are you talking about? :P
<cj> the one that wrote metacity
<Amaranth> Ah
<Amaranth> He is working on gnome-shell, I think
<cj> I guess so...
<cj> 17:08 [gimp] -!-  idle     : 0 days 14 hours 11 mins 14 secs [signon: Mon Dec
<Amaranth> Since gnome-shell is taking the core window management bits of metacity, hooking them up to spidermonkey, and creating a window manager and panel and such on top in javascript and clutter
<Amaranth> And he was working on using clutter in metacity
<cj> that sounds fun
<walters> hp is working on a custom product, he hasn't done anything on gnome-shell
<Amaranth> I thought for sure that's what all his research was leading up to
<walters> he works for http://litl.com
<Amaranth> works for? I thought that was his company
<cj> huh?  what happened to redhat?
<walters> he left a while ago
<cj> I'm so out of the loop
<walters> (when i say hasn't done anything on gnome-shell, i mean on that itself, obviously he did a massive amount of stuff in metacity, the spidermonkey bindings we're using, GTK+ core, clutter, etc.)
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-01
<karthik_>  can any one please tell me how to switch between workspaces using a program
<karthik_>  hey i need to switch netween workspaces.. how does it happen internally in the code?
<racarr> karthik_: You can use libwnck. Beyond that you have to send the appropriate message to the window manager with X. the EWMH explain how to do it.
<karthik_> racarr: wat is EWMH?
<racarr> karthik_: Extended Window Manager Hints, its a specification.
<racarr> karthik_: You are really much better off using libwnck than doing it yourself, or look in the libwnck sources to see how they do it at least.
<karthik_> racarr: ok .. is there any way to find the xid of present workspace
<racarr> karthik_: Same answer. Though xid isn't really the term here.
<karthik_> racarr: ok i'll try with libwnck and get back to you
<Csana> anybody here experienced with ndiswrapper?
<Csana> or networking problems?
<karthik_> hey can any one tell me the hirerachy of screen,workspace,window
<nomadc93> hi
<anakron> Hi all
<anakron> i have one question
<anakron> someone here had a problem with gnome-dictionary?
<anakron> Because my native language is Spanish and when i try to search a spanish word, the dictionary says that it can't connect to es.dict.org
<anakron> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-utils/+bug/312893
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 312893 in gnome-utils "el diccionario espaÃ±ol no funciona" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<anakron> this is a bug
<anakron> that says that spanish dictionary doen't work
<anakron> i want to create a patch for it
<anakron> i know where i must change it
<anakron> but when i try to find a spanish dictionary, only dict.org works fine
<anakron> so
<anakron> i want to know where i can find a spanish dictionary that only contains spanish words and works fine
<anakron> because dict.org is the dictionary server by default
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-02
<jacky> hi there. ok got ubunto 8.10 booting offa usb fine with unetbootin. struggled dong this with opensuse.
<jacky> how do i determine if the installation contains 'Mono ' ?
<jacky> i tested it by copying a small .net exe file which works on windows, but the error it gave was: 'An error occurred while loading the archive'
<jacky> im a newbie. im assumming that the file is associated with the 'Archive Manager' app. ?
<jacky> im using ubuntu 8.1 - how can i connect to my windows 2003 rdp session (it was working with windows xp before)? im using the 'Remote Desktop Viewer'. how can i get ubuntu to 'see' my windows 2003 machine that resides on the LAN?
<huats> morning everyone !
<jacky> is it possible to put ubuntu on a USB stick, boot from it and use it like a normal drive (i.e. so data persists? )
<Hobbsee> yes, if you set it up that way
<Hobbsee> system, admin, create a startup disk
<jacky> Hobbsee, ok, then does that persist the data?
<Hobbsee> yes, if you set it up that way
<Hobbsee> afaik, anyway
<jacky> ok ill give it a go. so then i use the live cd to install it onto the  usb stick that i ceated bootable?
<Hobbsee> i think so
<Hobbsee> i've not used it
<jacky> ok
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-03
<karthik_> hey could any one please tell me wats the difference between viewport and workspace
<scott8035> I have an external monitor hooked up to my laptop, and I'm using both screens
<scott8035> Everything works fine EXCEPT the external monitors screen is partly duplicated onto the right edge of the laptop screen
<scott8035> Is there some magic trick to make this go away?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-01-04
<mdke> is Ubuntu's "Add to Panel" dialogue customised from the Gnome version, or the same?
<Maggie> I am not able to use flashdrive on my pc...I use Hardy plz help!
<Maggie> I am not able to use flashdrive on my pc...I use Hardy plz help!
<PrivateVoid> anyone know why a computer would have 'jerky' performance unless the mouse was being moved or glxgears was being run?
<dobey> lots of I/O bound activity
<dobey> something eating up a lot of memory, and causing stuff to swap
<PrivateVoid> dobey, so why would moving the mouse or running glxgears actually help?
<PrivateVoid> I could see it if the jerkiness was when glxgears was running, but not having it be smooth when I am running it...
<dobey> what do you mean by "jerky" performance?
<PrivateVoid> Well... the apps would take an odd time to launch...
<PrivateVoid> but the most indicative thing was running System Monitor
<PrivateVoid> the graphs would update in a jerky pattern instead of a smooth flow...
<PrivateVoid> then when I would move the mouse... or if I ran glxgears the graphs would update smoothly as they do on my other systems
<dobey> i don't know why that would be, no
<PrivateVoid> ok...
<dobey> unless tracker is indexing stuff, and moving the mouse, and glxgears, cause it to cease doing so until idle again
<dobey> or something similar to that
<PrivateVoid> that is where I got after 14.5 hours of trying to figure it out...
<PrivateVoid> It was a fresh install... with the proprietary drivers loaded for Nvidia
<PrivateVoid> and that was it...
<johanbr> Sounds like an interrupt problem. And/or ACPI.
<PrivateVoid> johanbr, could be ACPI... on the interrupt...
<PrivateVoid> or I meant
<PrivateVoid> it was on an ASUS X83Vm-X1...
<PrivateVoid> if it was ACPI... then moving the mouse and running glxgears basically forced it to not use power management?
<PrivateVoid> that would link the two items together
<johanbr> PrivateVoid: maybe. You could try changing cpufreq governor. Or booting with "acpi=off". Or with "noapic nolapic".
<PrivateVoid> that is an option... I this it might be he acpi -- apparently the bios on the machine doesn't handle it properly... from some posts I am finding
<PrivateVoid> but for a laptop that kind of sucks
<PrivateVoid> thanks for the advice johanbr
<johanbr> no problem
<PrivateVoid> using acpi=off turns off power management right?
<johanbr> yes
<johanbr> That could possibly have consequences for thermal management, so make sure the laptop doesn't get too hot.
<PrivateVoid> I guess I return this laptop...
<PrivateVoid> I do not want to run Windows...... and Linux appears to be having issues on it...
<PrivateVoid> http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11541
<PrivateVoid> that appears related...
<ubottu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 11541 in MTTR "boot hang unless "mtrr=off", caused by commit b1f6278d77c1f2f669346fc2bb48012b5e9495a- Asus M51TR notebook" [High,New]
<PrivateVoid> might be the bios ASUS is using...
<PrivateVoid> thought that is a different model... it is logical that they are using similar bioses
<johanbr> According to one comment, booting with "noapic nolapic" works.
<johanbr> Sorry, I mean "nosmp nolapic".
<PrivateVoid> yeah...
<PrivateVoid> it does work... but the trade off is severe for a laptop
<PrivateVoid> found this too johanbr - http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-bugs/2008-11/msg04598.html
<PrivateVoid> the N80Vm is basically the same machine too
<johanbr> I wouldn't despair too much. Did you try "noapic nolapic" ?
<PrivateVoid> not yet
<PrivateVoid> these are talking about booting issues... I am getting jerky performance... I guess they could be related.
<johanbr> Very likely. The issue seems to be that the machine has a buggy ACPI implementation.
<PrivateVoid> I think it goes back tomorrow...
<PrivateVoid> it is still within my 14 day return period
<PrivateVoid> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9050055&type=product&id=1218012612475
<PrivateVoid> sucks to give up an LED lit monitor and such great specs... (they are actually on sale for $794 right now) for that price...
<PrivateVoid> but I will find a replacement johanbr -- any laptop recommendations?
<johanbr> I have a Dell laptop that I'm pretty happy with, and they're sold with ubuntu preinstalled.
<johanbr> My only complaint is that the backlight gave up a while ago, but that was covered by warranty.
<PrivateVoid> you using the X3100 graphics or Nvidia?
<johanbr> Nvidia. Which I'm beginning to regret.
<johanbr> I don't need powerful graphics anyway, and the closed-source nvidia drivers sometimes have issues.
<cj> so... unplugging a vga cable from a dell netbook doesn't switch desktop orientation, resolution, etc
<cj> ibex
<cj> who do I work with to make it happen?
<cj> I'll take my answer off the air :)
<dobey> johanbr: so use the open source drivers, and forgo fancy 3d bits for a while :)
<MetaTron> night
<johanbr> dobey: I think nouveau is still a bit too bleeding-edge for my taste.
<dobey> johanbr: i'm not talking about noveau
<johanbr> nv? last I tried, that didn't work with my card
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> oh
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-04
<pitti> Good morning everyone! happy new year
<lool> pitti: happy new year to you too
<pitti> bonjour lool
 * pitti -> supermarket, bbl
<pitti> lool: had some nice holidays?
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone (and welcome back)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, happy new year!
<chrisccoulson> happy new year to you too pitti :)
<chrisccoulson> did you have a nice break?
<pitti> I did, very relaxing; we painted some rooms, did some major cleaning, lots of family events, and tons of snow \o/
<seb128_> hey there
<seb128_> happy new year!
<chrisccoulson> excellent, sounds good
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128_, happy new year to you too
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<seb128> had good holidays?
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, good thanks, although quite busy with family visiting all the time
<chrisccoulson> did you have a good holiday too?
<seb128> yes, very relaxing
<seb128> lot of doing nothing and familly seeing
<seb128> that's always good ;-)
<seb128> I manage to barrely touch the computer
<seb128> which is a good thing to do once a year too
<seb128> hum
<seb128> not looking forward email catching up after those two weeks now
<seb128> let's grab coffee first
<seb128> brb
<pitti> seb128: good luck!
<pitti> seb128: is it actually so bad?
<pitti> I just spent an hour on them yesterday to get them back to 0
<pitti> it was pretty quiet over the holidays
<pitti> s/0/3/
<lool> pitti: Yup, how about you?  good holidays?
<pitti> lool: indeed; lots of fresh air, family, and gaming; and only some hacking
 * pitti played Battle for Wesnoth a lot
<lool> haha
<seb128> lool, hey, happy new year!
<seb128> pitti, well, not bad but if you want to overview the bugsmails...
<seb128> it usually takes me 2 hours after a weekend
<pitti> yeah, I didn't touch those yet
<seb128> so after 2 weeks
<pitti> I just followed up on the high-urgency ones (subscribed/assigned)
<pitti> my +ubugs folder is full again :(
<seb128> I've installed ubuntu on my cousin's laptop yesterday, that's a fail btw
<pitti> karmic?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> no eth nor wifi working
<seb128> which is fixed in a linux sru done in december
<seb128> I had to download the deb and copy it over usb key
<seb128> and I still have no bluetooth
<seb128> and screen doesn't come back from suspend
<seb128> which I'm not sure how to debug
<seb128> it's a toshiba laptop, I would not recommend those for ubuntu
<seb128> jockey is a fail too, it activates fglrx but still mark it as not activated
<seb128> ie the xorg.conf is correctly update and fglrx loaded in Xorg.0.log but the jockey UI still say it's not used
<tseliot> seb128: in lucid?
<seb128> tseliot, no, karmic
<seb128> tseliot, it's early to install lucid on a luser box
<tseliot> seb128: this is why I asked ;)
<seb128> my cousin is a student and need to box to get work done and is nothing of a computer person
<seb128> to box -> the box
<tseliot> seb128: does the fglrx driver work?
<seb128> the videocard is a radeon hd 4500 m92 I think
<seb128> I'm not sure actually but I think so by looking through the xorg log
<tseliot> or is it just that jockey shows it as disabled?
<tseliot> seb128: can I see the log?
<seb128> and 2d performance are slugish, ie you can the trail when moving things on screen
<seb128> tseliot, with fglrx?
<tseliot> yep
<seb128> give me a few minutes, I cleaned that yesterday
<seb128> I thought it might be what was breaking resume
<seb128> but it has the same issue using ati
<seb128> I will install it again now
<tseliot> ok
<lool> seb128: Happy new year to you too!  Hope you got some rest after new year celebrations!  :-)
<seb128> lool, I sort of got used to sleep until 10am, was hard to wake up today ;-)
<seb128> but yeah, I got plenty of sleep too
<pitti> seb128: heh, me too; forced myself out of bed at 7 today
 * lool ponders sending a "Happy GNU year" to a GNOME list   ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> lool, is you new year resolution to do extra trolling? ;-)
<pitti> argh, pitivi pulls in hal
<pitti> seb128: ^ just looking at the outstanding alpha-2 work items, and pitivi/gbrainy MIRs are on your list; can you do them?
<pitti> (nevermind about pitivi as long as it uses hal, though)
<seb128> they are not on my list and I guess I could though I've zillions of things to do after 2 weeks break
<pitti> seb128: well, the work items are assigned to you
<seb128> and those are nowhere near of what I consider priorities or things I enjoy to do
<pitti> but I'm happy to reassign the gbrainy one to me
<seb128> I didn't know until now thanks for letting me know
<seb128> that would be great
<seb128> would be nice if somebody was processing the mirs too
<seb128> I opened the libiphone, etc ones a month ago ;-)
<seb128> though there was end of year break in the middle so I guess delay was expected
<seb128> tseliot, ok, jockey fails to install fglrx today
<pitti> asac: ^ got some time for that?
<seb128> tseliot, when I tried yesterday that was before doing the karmic updates though
<pitti> seb128: for http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha2/report.html#seb128 , the third and remaining one is "pull new f-spot with edit capabilities in viewer mode", then you are done for alpha-2
 * pitti reassigns the gbrainy one to him
<tseliot> seb128: maybe debug mode will help you see why it fails
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<seb128> tseliot, log in non debug mode seems useless
<seb128> how do I turn debug mode on?
<tseliot> seb128: killall jockey-backend
<tseliot> seb128: and sudo /usr/share/jockey/jockey-backend --debug -l > /var/log/jockey.log
<seb128> pitti, when is a2?
<tseliot> then run jockey as usual
<pitti> seb128: Jan 14
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I can do the pitivi mir and the f-spot change this week
<pitti> cool
<tseliot> pitti: does this look good to you (see the last two commits)? https://code.launchpad.net/~albertomilone/jockey/alternatives
<tseliot> that assumes that my new nvidia-common is uploaded first ;)
<huats> morning everyone
<pitti> tseliot: first commit is obvious; I can't verify the second just by looking at the diff, but structurally it looks fine; please go ahead and commit (I just added you to the team)
<pitti> hey huats
<tseliot> pitti: great, thanks
<huats> hello mister pitti
<seb128> tseliot, ok, the new error is my fault, I mixed proposed versions and updates ones and don't have a proposed source
<seb128> I will sort that later and ping you when I've an xorg log
<seb128> hey huats
<tseliot> seb128: ok
<seb128> tseliot, otherwise do you know if they are known suspend, resume issues due to the ati driver?
<tseliot> seb128: not that I know of
<tseliot> tjaalton: ^^
<tjaalton> no idea, I don't even know if fglrx works at all
<seb128> tjaalton, the question was about ati no fglrx though
<seb128> the screen doesn't come back on resume
<tjaalton> seb128: ah ok
<seb128> the box is a toshiba laptop with a radeon hd 4500 card
<seb128> ati m92 mobility I think...
<tjaalton> try booting witn radeon.modeset=0
<tjaalton> with
<seb128> where do I put that?
<tjaalton> kernel cmdline
<seb128> on the kernel options?
<tjaalton> yes
<seb128> ok thanks
<tjaalton> if that works, bug the kernel people to got through the drm commits ;)
<tjaalton> *go, dammit
<tseliot> KMS should be already off in Karmic
<tseliot> for ati
<tjaalton> huh, it was karmic?
<seb128> yes
<tjaalton> ok, there probably are bugs yes ;)
<seb128> there is no kms active there
<seb128> ie vt1 is plain old text mode
<tjaalton> right, it was enabled after lucid alpha1
<seb128> is there anything else worth testing?
<seb128> updated ati driver from a ppa or something?
<tjaalton> it's likely a kernel drm bug
<tjaalton> so try lucid
<seb128> great
<seb128> the box is not mine though and I don't think lucid is production ready quality wise
<seb128> I guess I will just tell him to keep using vista for now :--
<seb128> :-(
<tjaalton> well, a daily livecd should be enough to test it
<seb128> right I will do that
<seb128> bah, some random user wrote a 1 page comment explaining how to remove pulseaudio and break half of your system and keep copying it in random bugs
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - hggdh contacted him last night about those
<seb128> good
<seb128> is there any way in karmic to tell polkit1 to not ask for a password to mount ntfs disks?
<chrisccoulson> we requested on #launchpad that they deactivate their account when we noticed what they was doing, but they weren't keen on doing that
<seb128> ie to mount the vista partition on the same disk
<pitti> seb128: copy /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/org.freedesktop.DeviceKit.Disks.pkla from lucid to that karmic system
<pitti> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/351179/
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I dropped the MIR bits from the whiteboard and linked to two MIR bugs (just stubs for now)
<pitti> (to avoid confusion about the whiteboard diffs)
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<seb128> pitti, thanks for renewing my membership, I didn't read my launchpad box during holidays and didn't notice it expired
<pitti> seb128: my pleasure
<asac> pitti: seb128: yes. checking
<seb128> hey asac, happy new year
<seb128> pedro_, hey, happy new year!
<pedro_> happy new year seb128!
<seb128> asac, no hurry for the mir but this week would be nice
<seb128> pedro_, had good holidays? ;-)
<asac> happy new year too!!
<pitti> hey asac, gesundes Neues!
<pedro_> seb128, yeah, thanks for asking, what about you?
<asac> hey pitti .... hope you are a bit less burried in snow than we are ;)
<pedro_> happy new year pitti and asac!
<asac> crazy winter
<pitti> hey pedro_, happy new year!
 * asac hugs pedro_ 
<seb128> pedro_, yes, pretty relaxing ;-)
 * pedro_ hugs asac back
<pitti> asac: it has snown for three days here; all white
<pitti> we had a great "Schneeballschlacht" yesterday :)
<seb128> lucky you
<pitti> and I built a snowman with my niece
<seb128> we had some snow 2 weeks ago
<seb128> but not since
<asac> hehe
<pitti> seb128: btw, hold on with the MIR; I'll propose some MIR process simplification on u-devel@, just doing some wiki cleanup first
<seb128> ok thanks
<chrisccoulson1> i think freenode hates me today
<chrisccoulson1> i keep getting disconnected
<pitti> seb128: sent to MIR team and CCed u-devel@; your feedback appreciated
<seb128> pitti, I'm about to go for lunch but I will comment after that
<pitti> seb128: btw, I had a quick look at the brasero nautilus plugin; I don't see any obvious time difference with and without (but I didn't measure very carefully); is it still taking a second? If so, want me to look into this?
<seb128> pitti, you are welcome to do so, it takes over 1 second there on the mini config
<seb128> and over 3 seconds on my laptop config
<pitti> urgh
<seb128> if you strace it you will see it execve every commands it known with --version to know what is available
<pitti> seb128: ok, I think I'll prepare a test nautilus which gives some debugging output for plugin loading and exits once it loaded everything
<pitti> that should be convenient for timing
<seb128> right
<seb128> ideally the code should just register what it can do
<pitti> I have no urgent non-blocked alpha-2 tasks any more, and working on speedup is urgent, so I'll do that now
<seb128> not do all the brasero .so init
<pitti> right
<pitti> and defer expensive bits to lazy initialization
<seb128> right
<seb128> or to first use or something
 * pitti hardly burns any CDs these days, and I guess the same is true for many people
<pitti> in particular for netbook users who don't even have a drive :)
<pitti> seb128: lazy init == first use, right, that's what I mean
<seb128> ok, you can also see lazy init as idle loop code
<pitti> seb128: btw, do you have your test gnome-session somewhere which loads everything at once?
<pitti> ah
<seb128> it's not a gnome-session change
<seb128> I've emptied the gconf key for required components
<seb128> ie /desktop/gnome/session/required_components_list
<pitti> oh, I thought it was this Autostart-Phase: thing
<pitti> okay
<seb128> copied the nautilus and gnome-panel autostart from /usr/share/applications to etc
<seb128> to /etc/xdg/autostart
<seb128> and changed all the desktop files there to have Application for the autostart stage
<seb128> so everything is started as an application
<seb128> and they are all started together
<seb128> just copy /etc/xdg/autostart away
<seb128> do the changes and try
<seb128> have to go for lunch
<seb128> be back in a bit
<pitti> ok, was just curious
<pitti> enjoy!
<pitti> seb128: yep, after a 3 > drop_caches, brasero takes ages here, too
 * pitti has a debug nautilus now
<pitti> seb128: thanks for the heads-up, I think I'm good to go now
<seb128> back from lunch
<seb128> pitti, ok good, let me know if you have any question
<seb128> pitti, you got a reference hardware box?
<seb128> pitti, or you use your laptop to do testing?
<pitti> seb128: my normal laptop; I don't have a Dell mini
<pitti> but that should be good enough
<seb128> right
<seb128> enough people do daily testing on the mini anyway
<seb128> and what improves on your box should benefit other installs too
<asac> pitti: http://pastebin.com/f21452d4b ... let me know if its ok to carry that fix in ubuntu/debian for a bit. for upstream one probably would have to check in configure if gcc has that feature :/
<pitti> asac: looks fine, but please do report it upstream as well
<pitti> asac: I'll turn it into a patch and commit to bzr
<pitti> asac: hm, does that work on "arm" as well, or only "armel"?
<pitti> ah, bug 497331
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497331 in postgresql-8.4 "build failure with -mthumb on armel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497331
<pitti> it does build on Debian's armel, I guess that doesn't use thumb2
<pitti> asac: ok, pushed and bug updated
<asac> thx
<dholbach> hola
<kenvandine> het dholbach
<kenvandine> hey even :)
<dholbach> can anybody imagine running a session at UDW: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep still has a couple of empty slots
<dholbach> hey kenvandine
<pitti> hey kenvandine, happy new year!
<kenvandine> happy new year too you too!
<seb128> hey dholbach kenvandine
<seb128> happy new year
<dholbach> maybe something about what's specific to packaging desktop stuff?
<dholbach> I'm sure you guys want more desktop contributors :-D
<seb128> pitti, the measure I did before holidays for nautilus loading times were similar to your notes
<seb128> everything else than brasero was around 0.1 seconds or under that
<seb128> share was faster there but you might use a non empty nautilus config
<pitti> ok, thanks
<dholbach> or is there anything else desktop related that would fit well into UDW?
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll bump empathy today
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> hey tedg
<seb128> tedg, happy new year
<tedg> Good morning seb128.  Good holiday?
<tedg> Thanks
<seb128> yes, excellent
<seb128> didn't touch work stuff for 2 weeks
<seb128> nor email
<seb128> (or almost not, I did read email 3 times in 2 weeks)
<chrisccoulson> dholbach - i keep thinking that a session on debugging X errors would be useful, to help with issues like gnome bug 598476, but i just don't have any time at the moment :(
<tedg> Wow.  That's impressive.
<ubottu> Gnome bug 598476 in daemon "gnome-screensaver crashes when entering password incorrectly 5 times" [Blocker,Needinfo] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598476
<chrisccoulson> such a session would be closely related to interpreting stacktraces anyway
<dholbach> chrisccoulson: maybe bryce__ and tseliot have some ideas for that? ^
<tedg> seb128: Are you testing to see if Evolutions mail counting algorithms can count to a million? ;)
<dholbach> chrisccoulson: shall I mail you three guys and we can debate what would go in there?
<seb128> tedg, I almost could ;-)
<chrisccoulson> dholbach - possibly. i'd like to do such a session, but i'd struggle to find the time at the moment
<seb128> very annoyed by the spam count though
<dholbach> chrisccoulson: a bunch of bullet points and some discussion with bryce__ and tseliot would be appreciated - I'll kick off the mail in a sec :-)
<tseliot> chrisccoulson, dholbach: yes, an email would be fine :-)
<dholbach> fantastico
<tseliot> ;)
<chrisccoulson> the gnome-screensaver issue might be a good example for a session too, because i already understand why that broke :)
<dholbach> tseliot, bryce__, chrisccoulson: sent
<tseliot> thanks
<kenvandine> good morning rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<rickspencer3> so, we're back
<kenvandine> yup!
<rickspencer3> :)
 * rickspencer3 checks calendar, checks email
<rickspencer3> aaah
<pitti> hey rickspencer3! happy new year!
<rickspencer3> happy new year pitti
<rickspencer3> pitti, how was your vacation?
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> rickspencer3: I really enjoyed it; got some household stuff done (wallpainting, cleaning), lots of snow, some gaming, and some hacking
<seb128> happy new year!
<pitti> it was good to rest for some ten days
<dholbach> ArneGoetje: do you think you could follow up on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2010-January/006447.html ?
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<ArneGoetje> dholbach: looking
<seb128> rickspencer3, did you have good holidays?
<rickspencer3> seb128, yes
<pitti> rickspencer3: I saw your blog entries, seems you hacked all the time :)
<rickspencer3> spent quite some time with my family, and did some hacking, yes
<pitti> quidmasgets
<rickspencer3> pitti, I see an MRI bug for pitivi
<rickspencer3> thanks for doing that
<pitti> rickspencer3: it's just a stub so far
<pitti> rickspencer3: biggest problem is that it pulls hal back in
<kenvandine> eww
<pitti> (and of course all those bugs :) )
<kenvandine> i used it a couple times over the break and it worked pretty well
<pitti> TBH I only tested it once at UDS
<ArneGoetje> dholbach: replied
<pitti> I don't know anyone who actually edits videos, so I don't have a real-live test case
<pitti> "life"
<rickspencer3> I used it a bit last summer
<pitti> but either way, we need to do something about hal
<rickspencer3> and it worked quite well
<rickspencer3> but was a tad crashy
<kenvandine> i do from time to time... my biggest beef is it is such a pain to get dv video off the camera
<dholbach> ArneGoetje: awesome - thanks
<dholbach> ArneGoetje: moderated
<ArneGoetje> dholbach: thanks
<seb128> pitti, I replied to the mir email and some other people too apparently, all good feedback
<seb128> go pitti go ;-)
<pitti> nice
<ccheney> hi
<rickspencer3> hi ccheney
<rickspencer3> welcome back
<rickspencer3> Not too surprised to see we are a bit over the trend line
<pitti> hey ccheney, happy new year!
<pitti> rickspencer3: right, you can clearly see the holidays..
<rickspencer3> stupid holidays
<rickspencer3> ;)
<seb128> pitti, we should perhaps have small template for mir bugs and decide on whether the description or comments should be used too
<seb128> template, ie:
<seb128> rational: we need a video editor
<seb128> security: no known issue
<seb128> packaging: standard cdbs one, actively maintained in debian
<pitti> seb128: i don't actually expect security/packaging to be in mir bugs at all if they are okay
<pitti> (we still review the packaging anyway)
<seb128> ok, good
<pitti> seb128: I just expect reporters to walk through UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements and pick out the bad stuff
<seb128> I was just doing the pitivi one and I'm not too sure what to write about "well maintained upstream and in debian, no security issue"
<seb128> ok
<pitti> (which is why I want people to explicitly confirm that they did this, to ensure that they know about the page and sign off on having done the checks)
<seb128> it just feel weird when you are used to write every detail, but good weird ;-)
<pitti> just go through the checklist, and note down things that come to your mind when you review the package
<seb128> pitti, ie do you expect extra comments on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/502897?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 502897 in pitivi "[MIR] pitivi" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
<pitti> seb128: yes, one: "a confirmation that you checked the requirements carefully"
<seb128> pitti, ok, done
<seb128> I'm not sure if we should delay its use until it stops using hal though
<pitti> seb128: thanks, moved back to new and assigned to me
<seb128> pitti, thank you
<pitti> seb128: if we put it in now, we need to change hal to get activated on demand, and fix g-p-m to not activate hal on startup
<pitti> but that's sort of on my list anyway
<seb128> I would be in favor of delaying until pitivi is fixed
 * pitti too
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> let's see how upstream is responsive
<pitti> not that I would have ever been anxious to get in pitivi :)
<seb128> the bug has been opened 2 days ago
 * pitti chuckles at http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/
<pitti> Keybuk: I want this mysterious "201000" extra month, too!
<Keybuk> heh
<Keybuk> I just fixed that
<seb128> hey Keybuk
<seb128> happy new year!
<Keybuk> hey, happy new year to you too
<seb128> pitti, bug #448180 seems a "gnome-alsamixer crashes when there is no soundcard"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448180 in gnome-alsamixer "gnome-alsamixer crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448180
<seb128> pitti, do you think it's worth fixing in a sru? it would still do nothing, just display a "no sound card" rather than crashing...
<seb128> (not that I fixed the bug yet)
<pitti> hm, sounds like a feature to me :) why should it be running if there's no card?
<seb128> it seems users try to run it to fix their "no sound issue"
<pitti> from my shallow look I'd say don't bother
<seb128> which is fact a alsa or driver issue
<pitti> if you want to, I won't stop you of course
<seb128> ie no sound card is listed by alsa on those config
<seb128> not especially
<seb128> you just assigned the bug to me so I was checking ;-)
<seb128> I will try to get it fixed for lucid so we stop receiving crash bugs
<seb128> but I will not bother for karmic
<pitti> assigned> ah, that was last year already :)
<pitti> right, lucid only
<seb128> yeah, but during my holidays
<seb128> ok, all good ;-)
<rickspencer3> tseliot, hi
<tseliot> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> happy New Year tseliot
<rickspencer3> I saw some mails regarding "Updated plans for Lucid"
<tseliot> rickspencer3: happy new year to you :-)
<rickspencer3> anything I should know?
<tseliot> I think it was a status update that tjaalton wrote
<tseliot> I just explained that all my work for the "proprietary improvements" blueprint is in a PPA
<tseliot> as I worked on it during the holidays
<rickspencer3> tseliot, great, so I don't need to reed those :)
<rickspencer3> tseliot, btw, really great work on the mini 10v trackpad
<tseliot> rickspencer3: no, don't worry ;)
<rickspencer3> turned it from something stupid and frustrating to something that works quite well
<tseliot> rickspencer3: thanks, I'm working to make sure that my fixes can be applied in the future (despite the changes in X and udev)
<tseliot> :-)
<pitti> there, nautilus brasero extension starts in 0.3 secs now
<pitti> (from cold cache)
<pitti> now it's just class registration and gconf
<bratsche> Happy New Year desktop hackers!
<seb128> pitti, you rock!
<pitti> hey bratsche! happy new year to you, too!
<seb128> hey bratsche, happy new year
<pitti> seb128: just need to fix that tiny crash now :)
<seb128> lol
<pitti> burning an .iso from the menu works; clicking menu on computer:/// on CD breaks
<seb128> pitti, I opened a bug upstream about it being slow btw so no need to open a new one to add your changes
<pitti> seb128: oh, great; which one?
<pitti> I'll send my patch there
<seb128> sec, looking for the bug number
<pitti> oh, you probably did it a while ago already, I'll find it
<pitti> seb128: got it
<seb128> pitti, ok, sorry I got sidetracked in finishing something else
<pitti> NP, took me like 3 seconds to fine
<pitti> find
<robbiew> pitti: seb128:  pardon if this has already been addressed in a bug or email or whatever :)...but is there a reason why installing nvidia-glx-185 is fubar'd on my 64bit machine?
<pitti> robbiew: what breaks in particular?
<pitti> (no idea, I don't have nvidia here for testing)
<robbiew> pitti: installing that package automatically removes all xserver- packages
<robbiew> and without it...nvidia driver doesn't work
<robbiew> so stuck with framebuffer
<pitti> eww, WTH
<pitti> tseliot: seems it needs to depend on the newer x.org ABI?
<pitti> robbiew: ^ I think that's it
<tseliot> yep
<pitti> robbiew: tseliot has new packages in the pipeline, I'm sure that they will work
<tseliot> I'm still cleaning them up a bit but they should work: https://edge.launchpad.net/~albertomilone/+archive/proprietary-video-improvements
<tseliot> note: you will have to update all of the packages in the PPA
<robbiew> pitti: tseliot: thanks
<robbiew> :)
<robbiew> figured you all were on top of it ;)
<tseliot> np
<tseliot> robbiew: if you have problems with the drivers, just let me know
<robbiew> will do
<tseliot> robbiew: also are you going to install the latest driver? 190.53
<tseliot> if not, you'll have to type an additional command
 * robbiew is all about the latest and greatest :D
<tseliot> ok, no additional work then ;)
<rickspencer3> tseliot, you have 50 bugs assigned to you?
<tseliot> rickspencer3: I didn't count them but yes, it should be a considerable amount of bugs
<rickspencer3> well "bug tasks"
<rickspencer3> looks like 10 > medium importanc
<Martinp23> if anyone gets a few mins, could you look at bug #502775 please? it's ages since i did packaging so not entirely sure if i'm following the right procedure here :p
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502775 in vte "Upgrade vte to 0.23.2" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502775
<tseliot> rickspencer3: let me check
<pitti> seb128: so, fixed the crash; I can't say that brasero actually worked before (it keeps complaining about not having enough space on CD), but at least it now works as before
<seb128> pitti, ok good, and upstream have time to comment on the changes before lucid
<seb128> pitti, btw there is a 2.29.4 new version if you feel doing an upgrade too :-)
<tseliot> rickspencer3: what's the purpose of you question? (I'm curious)
<rickspencer3> tseliot, no action required for you
<pitti> seb128: might just as well do; was about to upload, nice timing :)
<tseliot> rickspencer3: ah, good
<seb128> hey Martinp23
<rickspencer3> in general, I like bugs that are assigned to be bugs that are planned for fixing
<Martinp23> hi seb128 :)
<seb128> usually mvo look at vte updates
<seb128> not sure if he's around I've seen him today yet
<rickspencer3> tseliot, >10 seems a bit aggressive, but since you're a gues on desktop team, you shouldn't need to change your bug management strategy
<pitti> rickspencer3: uh, you consider > 10 too much?
<pitti> I was proud to reduce my list from 70 (start of december) to 38 (now) ..
<mvo> seb128: hello!
<tseliot> rickspencer3: ok. Some of them will be fixed soon
<mvo> seb128: did I hear my name :) ?
<rickspencer3> pitti, not "too much" just aggressive
<seb128> hey mvo
<mvo> happy new year
<pitti> hey mvo, gesundes Neues! *hug*
<seb128> mvo, Happy New Year!
<rickspencer3> hi mvo
<seb128> mvo, Martinp23 worked on bug #502775
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502775 in vte "Upgrade vte to 0.23.2" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/502775
<seb128> Martinp23, and was wondering if somebody was feeling like give it a look
<seb128> ups
<seb128> mvo, ^
<mvo> seb128: sure, I can do that
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<Martinp23> seb128, mvo: thanks! :)
<mvo> Martinp23: please give me ~10min, I just need to finish anohter task
<Martinp23> sure, no rush at all
 * pitti uploads brasero and is eager to see tomorrow's boot chart
<pitti> it won't reduce total time (gnome-panel is critical path), but should reduce the nautilus churn
<seb128> right
<karmst> hello
<karmst> is anyone in here?
<mvo> Martinp23: looks good, test-building now
<baptistemm> karmst, when you enter in a room, do you say "is anyone in here?" ?
<mvo> Martinp23: the only "complain" is that you might want to add "debian/patches/90_autoreconf.patch: refreshed" to debian/changelog. but that is really minor :)
 * mvo needs to leave for lunch now
<mvo> eh, dinner
<baptistemm> karmst, usually on IRC, you say hello, and you ask your question
<baptistemm> :)
<karmst> ok
<karmst> I'm new to the linux world but have used windows and dos for over 20 years
<karmst> so please be kind =)
<karmst> I'm trying to find out if there is a way to have the user home directory sync with a server
<karmst> like how in Windows you can use GPO to redirect desktops
<karmst> and profiles
<karmst> can something be done in Ubuntu similar?
<baptistemm> I know zip about windows and I guess this is not the right chan, and this is not specific to ubuntu. I guess you should look to Samba
<karmst> I think you didn't get my question
<karmst> it is specific to Ubuntu
<karmst> Can you have the workstation home directories sync with a server
<karmst> so you can have a mobile profile?
<seb128> use nfs?
<baptistemm> karmst, no this is not specific to ubuntu, this is specific to Linux
<seb128> I'm not sure to understand the question, you want datas synced automatically?
<karmst> yes
<karmst> I want to be able to pull the same home directory on multiple workstations
<baptistemm> karmst, nfs should be the solution
<karmst> ah
<seb128> well nfs is not offline
<seb128> it requires connection to the server
<karmst> hmmm
<karmst> that's what I want
<karmst> like my workstation and laptop to sync
<seb128> you can try unison for example
<Martinp23> mvo: thanks! I've pushed a better changelog to my bzr branch
<karmst> or if I go to another workstation for it to have the same Desktop, documents. etc
<karmst> by login
<seb128> look at unison
<karmst> unison
<seb128> apt-cache show unison
<mvo> thanks Martinp23
<karmst> yes
<karmst> that's close to what I'm looking for
<karmst> Hey thanks Seb I think this will work
<karmst> ;)
<seb128> you're welcome
<karmst> ok and one last question
<karmst> What's the best way to make incremental image backups of Karmic?
<seb128> not sure about that one, it's not really desktopish
<seb128> try #ubuntu-server maybe
<seb128> I know that backuppc can do that sort of things
<karmst> ok
<karmst> thanks
<seb128> not sure if that's the best way though
<karmst> ah
<karmst> I'm not sure if Acronis works on a live Ubuntu
<karmst> or maybe symantec?!?
<seb128> I don't know those
<seb128> the company I was working before used backuppc for incremental backuping
<karmst> does that do an image backup?
<karmst> or file backup?
<seb128> file backups
<seb128> you can set up the directories to backup
<seb128> it can use smb shares or rsync or ssh
<karmst> hmm
<karmst> I'm basically looking for something that if the computer gets fried you can restore an entire system to another computer
<karmst> even if the hardware is different
<seb128> I don't know about a software doing that
<karmst> so what do you guys do if your computer blows up?
<rickspencer3> karmst, I suppose we keep backups of our files, and then just do a reinstall, etc...
<rickspencer3> I think it's pretty rare for a computer to just completely fail with no warning
<seb128> I don't think I ever had a computer which blowed up
<seb128> and I do backup my user datas
<seb128> reinstalling a distro is a 2 hours job
<seb128> 2 hours counting the download of things I use which are not on the default install, etc
<karmst> true
<karmst> that's still quite a bit of time.
<seb128> well it's mainly my download speed taking in account there
<karmst> true but then what about customization and screens
<karmst> and so on
<karmst> I'll look around for something and let you know if I find anything
<seb128> I do backup user config
<seb128> I don't have nonuser customization
<seb128> im clients, images, music, etc are in my user dir
<seb128> web browser
<seb128> keyring
<seb128> etc
<seb128> installing karmic from an usb stick is 15 minutes job
<seb128> then you need to dump your user backup in place and install extra softwares
<seb128> but you are basically back to a working system in half an hour
<seb128> then you can work while extra things get installed
<seb128> well that's my view on that
<seb128> but having something to backup and dump back what you did backup later would be cool
<rickspencer3> seb128, it would be nice if there was a list of apps that you have installed and you could just say "yes just reinstall all of that list"
<seb128> you need at some point to bootstrap the software to write the backup back though
<seb128> rickspencer3, it's just 2 dpkg commands ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, sort of, except that it doesn't get done automatically for you
<seb128> right
<rickspencer3> like what if you dumped from dpkg and that list got stored in your U1 account
<seb128> quickly backup
<seb128> quickly restore
<rickspencer3> hehe
<seb128> yeah, that would be cool
<rickspencer3> anyway, nice thoughts for features for future versions
<seb128> a small pygtk gui which takes a package list and install things you don't have
<seb128> and which let you export your current set
<pitti> good night everyone
<chrisccoulson> good night pitti
<ccheney> anyone know how to fix this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/351477/ ?
<ccheney> trying to recompile karmic glib on hardy
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - which release are you building this on?
<ccheney> hardy
<chrisccoulson> thats why
<ccheney> i think i found the issue was with patch 5
<chrisccoulson> the hardy glibc doesn't have this symbol
<ccheney> yea
<ccheney> trying to get the firefox/webkit/e-b stuff done for the old releases
<chrisccoulson> if you give me 1 second, i'll find you the officially upstreamed patch, which contains a build-time check for this to make it use it's own internal symbol
<ccheney> i tried disabling assert messages but it doesn't seem to work
<ccheney> i might have done something wrong though
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - this is the official patch, which will be in the next glib version
<chrisccoulson> http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=da66897950431870390f8dc3f798e24f23ffb8c8
<chrisccoulson> not sure how that differs to what we already have in ubuntu
<chrisccoulson> it should build fine on hardy with that patch, because the configure check will notice your glibc version is too old
<ccheney> ok
 * ccheney didn't read the rules file close enough it seems
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-05
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> ccheney: in our glib version, just drop the --enable-cassert configure option in debian/rules
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you today?
<pitti> I'm good, thanks! and you?
<chrisccoulson> apparently it has just started snowing outside
<seb128_> hello there
<seb128_> seems I've some internet issues today
<chrisccoulson1> hey seb128_
<baptistemm> hi there & happy new year everyone :)
<chrisccoulson1> happy new year to you too baptistemm
<baptistemm> hey ey chrisccoulson
<baptistemm> eh chrisccoulson1 rather :)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hi?
<seb128> is IRC hating other people today too?
<mvo> hey seb128
<mvo> seb128: I think it just hates you :)
<seb128> hello?
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> the lag bar was bouncing for half an hour now
<seb128> it did reconnect a couple of time but I got nothing going through I think
<seb128> seems to work better now...
<mvo> good luck!
<seb128> mvo, how are you?
<mvo> I'm fine, thanks! just had some tea
<mvo> how are you? (beside the inet issues)?
<seb128> pretty good thanks
<seb128> mvo, is software-center supposed to let you upgrade things?
<seb128> the karmic version had an "upgrade" button when new versions were available
<seb128> but that doesn't seem to be the case in lucid?
<mvo> seb128: right, it used to be in the mockups, but I think its no more
<seb128> hum
<seb128> it's weird that you can't upgrade things from there
<seb128> you can upgrade things from the apple app store
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<mvo> heh ;)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> your internet is working better now?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> seems to be stable now
<mvo> seb128: I got a chance to play with the iphone store over christmas a bit (a friend of mine got one). fun thing
<mvo> wb seb128_
<seb128_> hum, or not
<mvo> <mvo> seb128: I got a chance to play with the iphone store over christmas a bit (a friend of mine got one). fun thing
<seb128_> just when I was saying it works better
<seb128_> mvo, indeed, I love my ipod touch
<seb128_> very handy to quickly check things
<seb128_> train, facebook posts, etc
<seb128_> email
 * mvo nods
<seb128_> I found the "upgrade from software-center" cool
<seb128_> shame it's not working in lucid ;-)
<mvo> mpt: ---^
<mpt> seb128, what "upgrade from software-center"?
<mvo> mpt: but #432610
<mvo> bug
<mvo> bug #432610
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432610 in software-center "Cannot remove app if it has an upgrade available" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432610
<seb128_> mpt, let's say I've an outdated gdm installed
<seb128_> or $software
<seb128_> in karmic when you go to that software in software-center you have an upgrade button
<seb128_> now you just have "uninstall"
<seb128_> which forces me to use synaptic to upgrade it
<seb128_> sucks, software-center is much faster and nicer
<mpt> seb128, you don't have Update Manager installed?
<seb128_> I have but I've some 350 upgrades pending
<mpt> and you want to update just that one
<seb128_> and I just want to upgrade one software now to try something
<mpt> hmm
<seb128_> I don't want to start a 3 hours upgrade
<mpt> sure
<seb128_> perhaps software-center could have a "to upgrade" category ?
<seb128_> like the apple app store has
<mpt> It's possible USC will allow updates in the future
<seb128_> it did in karmic already ;-)
<mpt> but it would need careful design first, so that we don't end up with bugs like #432610
<seb128_> it's weird it's "broken" now
<seb128_> bug#432610
<seb128_> bug 432610
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432610 in software-center "Cannot remove app if it has an upgrade available" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432610
<seb128_> add an extra button in this case?
<seb128_> I can open the opposite bug now
<mpt> You're welcome to, but it won't affect the scheduling much :-)
<seb128_> I was just checking it that was a bug or a design decision
<seb128_> seems it's a design choice
<seb128_> I won't bother
<seb128_> seems that designers like to drop features I'm using ;-)
<seb128_> but I'm getting used to that by now
<mpt> I haven't designed the feature at all yet. I will eventually, but there are other more important things to implement first.
<mpt> I'm sorry.
<mpt> Another thing that would make that case easier is a "deselect all" function in Update Manager, so you could then just select the updates you're interested in.
<seb128_> that's ok
<seb128_> it just that it was working in karmic
<seb128_> so I got used to it
<seb128_> there is one in the context menu
<seb128_> don't worry I manage to upgrade things
<seb128_> I just find that feature cool in karmic
<seb128_> it creates user expectation
<seb128_> it would not have been an issue if that was not there and dropped
<mpt> huh, so there is, I never noticed :-)
<seb128_> if things are not there that's ok
<seb128_> if they are there and you got used to those and they get broken you get annoyed
<mpt> Yes, I saw a lot of that with the Mozilla project and Netscape 4 -> Netscape 6
<seb128_> anything not the end of the world, thanks ;-)
<mpt> "Why did you remove feature X"
<mpt> "Sorry, we haven't reimplemented it yet"
<mvo> having a button for this in the details view sounds not like it would do a lot of harm and is convenient for some uers
<seb128_> right, I don't see the issue with having 3 buttons instead of 2
<seb128_> when updates are available
<seb128_> but I'm not a designer ;-)
<seb128> pitti, hey
<seb128> pitti, your changes from yesterday won us between 0.5 and 1s
<seb128> hard to say because desktop numbers are changing between boot in a 0.3s to 0.5s margin usuallt
<mpt> mvo, but it's never just "having a button". We need to specify what happens to the "Remove" button while it's updating, what the text is for an updating item in the "In Progress" section, what happens if you try to update an item that's queued for removal, etc
<pitti> seb128: nice! I actually thought it wouldn't win anything because panel is running much longer
<pitti> but with nautilus using less CPU other processes are faster perhaps
<pitti> seb128: total desktop time at http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/ is no different apparently
<seb128> pitti, scott's charts are using daily isos
<pitti> but nautilus time on http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100104-max.png and http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100105-max.png is indeed a huge improvement \o/
<seb128> I doubt there is one with this upgrade yet
<seb128> oh, there is?
<pitti> seb128: today's dailies have the new brasero
<seb128> I though it was taking longer to him to rsync and update charts
<seb128> is that usually those were not updated in the morning yet
<seb128> anyway on my mini the boot time dropped from 18-18.5s to 17.5-18s today
<seb128> I did some 5 boots before and after
<seb128> weird that it doesn't reflects on Scott's charts
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i will have some g-s-d, gconf and gnome-session updates for you to test later hopefully :)
<seb128> updates?
<seb128> new versions?
<seb128> or boot speed?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - boot speed improvements (hopefully)
<seb128> nice!
<seb128> look forwarding testing those changes ;-)
<seb128> what did you change exactly?
<tseliot> pitti: my changes to jockey should go in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/jockey/ubuntu , right?
<tseliot> pitti: as they affect only driver handlers
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the gconf change is to parse the XML files when gconfd loads, rather than waiting for an application to query the database. the gnome-session change is to get the session up and running without using gconf. i've done both of these already
<chrisccoulson> the g-s-d change will be to load the xrandr plugin without using gconf
<seb128> nice
<chrisccoulson> the idea being that by the time any values are queried, all the XML parsing will have finished
<seb128> did I already say that you rock? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i don't know how well it will work yet, so don't get your hopes up too much ;)
<mvo> hm, it looks like vte (in synaptic) turns into some sort of white/black instead of black/white when a bunch of lines are displayed - has anyone seen that (probably with the latest vte)
<mvo> seb128: what was the option again to make glib break on GLib-Critiical?
<pitti> tseliot: trunk has the drivers as well in examples/, so if applicable, commit them there
<baptistemm> mvo, --g-fatal-warnings
<baptistemm> ?
<mvo> great, thanks
<tseliot> pitti: yes, I can do there. Furthermore I would like to make jockey depend on nvidia-common > 0.2.15 (because of the new Alternatives class) but I would rather not upload (or have the package uploaded) until the new nvidia-common is in lucid. Shall I simply put UNRELEASED in the changelog (in case you want to change something else)?
<pitti> tseliot: you should always commit changes with "UNRELEASED" anyway
<tseliot> pitti: ok, good to know
<pitti> so please go ahead and change the dependency; I guess n-common will be uploaded very soon?
<tseliot> yes, I would like to do some testing on real hardware first though
<chrisccoulson> mvo - if you want to do it at runtime, you need to run with G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals
<chrisccoulson> i think baptistemm's suggestion is a build option isn't it?
<huats> morning
<james_w> huats!
<james_w> Salut
<huats> hey james_w !
<baptistemm> chrisccoulson, no, this is aruntime options
<chrisccoulson> baptistemm - ah, i wasn't sure
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, the environment was the one I was looking for, but --g-fatal-warnings works too when passed to the application
<baptistemm> I didn't know about the G_DEBUG=fatal_criticals
<mvo> hm, looks like irc does not like me anymore
<tseliot> pitti: the handlers in lp:jockey seem to be a bit older than the ones in ubuntu-core-dev (e.g. both the "enable" and "disable" methods seem to be missing)
<pitti> tseliot: right, I left out the truly ubuntu specific bits
<pitti> tseliot: perhaps it's best if you just commit your changes to the ubuntu branch for now
<tseliot> pitti: ok
<seb128> mvo, I see other people replied for me ;-)
<seb128> the runtime option or variable do the same thing
<rodrigo_> hi and happy new year
<rodrigo_> my first question of the year (more to come) :-)
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, happy new year!
<rodrigo_> hey pitti
<rodrigo_> pitti: I am about to create a new package to be added to lucid, should I use dput as I did for karmic, before there were package branches, or should I use a branch from the beginning?
<pitti> seb128: so, I removed init/upstart bits from hal now and set it to dbus-activation
<rodrigo_> and if using a branch, where should I submit it?
<pitti> seb128: now pitivi starts up just fine, without hal starting on boot
<pitti> rodrigo_: that's rather a question for james_w, but you can't use a package branch before the package is known
<rodrigo_> ah
<rodrigo_> james_w: around?
<pitti> rodrigo_: so perhaps just use a +junk branch for now and later move it over?
<james_w> "known" can be anything though
<mpt> mvo, does apt or dpkg keep track of when a package was installed?
<james_w> so as soon as you upload to your PPA you can push to lp:~rodrigo/ubuntu/lucid/<packagename>/whatever
<pitti> oh, sweet
<james_w> but yes, +junk could serve you until that point
<james_w> and yes, using branches is a good idea :-)
<rodrigo_> james_w: ok, I'll use a junk branch then
<pitti> so merely having that package in a PPA suffices?
<james_w> yeah
<rodrigo_> yes, I prefer branches than dput
<pitti> rodrigo_: right now it's not about an either-or; you'll need dput either way :)
<james_w> there's no lp:ubuntu/<packagename> obviously
<james_w> but you can use a 5-part name
<rodrigo_> pitti: right, but for building my package locally, and keeping track of changes, I prefer a branch than a dir on my PC
<pitti> right
<rodrigo_> ok then
<chrisccoulson> i think i should have stayed at home this morning!
<chrisccoulson> all of our local roads are gridlocked now it has snowed :(
<TeTeT> asac: any news on the root certificate in firefox integration?
<asac> TeTeT: i wasnt aware that there was somthing still left.
<asac> its not doable without repacking firefox
<asac> and i didnt get any other feedback yet.
<seb128> the unstopable pitti
<seb128> pitti, you rock ;-)
<pitti> heh
<pitti> thanks, you too!
<TeTeT> asac: ok, thanks
<asac> i pinged again
<seb128> pitti, sorry about the build-depends overlook
<seb128> pitti, the gir thing sucks though
<pitti> np
<pitti> gir?
<seb128> gobject introspection
<pitti> oh, not having python udev bindings, you mean
<seb128> ie no gudev for python
<seb128> right
<pitti> I wonder when this gets merted
<pitti> merged
<seb128> I don't agree with the crash = data loss though
<pitti> it was a SoC project last year, and the git branch looks pretty well maintained
<seb128> does it destroy the original video? or just don't give you what you asked for
<seb128> and also we have an apport issue there
<pitti> seb128: I don't think it'll destroy input files
<seb128> it catches python exceptions as crashes
<pitti> (well, I hope anyway)
<seb128> even if those are non-issue
<seb128> it's an issue for empathy msn bugs too
<pitti> well, an unhandled exception means that the program immediately dies, without the possibility to save your edits, or telling you why
<seb128> lot of "not implement feature" exceptions reported as crashes
<seb128> well raising an error doesn't mean the program exit
<pitti> why is that an exception then, instead of just a warning?
<pitti> sure it does
<pitti> it only catches unhandled exceptsions
<pitti> i. e. which cause the program to abort
<seb128> hum
<pitti> I guess for empathy it's less of an issue
<seb128> that's not what the telepathy-butterfly guys said
<pitti> you get disconnected, the backend gets respawned, and there you can re-connect
<seb128> they say most of the "crash bug" on launchpad are not crashes
<pitti> seb128: do you have a reference?
<pitti> we can add an apport hook to ignore particular crashes if they are uninteresting
<pitti> (or just fix the damn code to intercept and ignore them)
<pitti> but if you throw an exception and don't catch it, then you break the program flow anyway, so the only thing you can do is to restart the program
<seb128> istaz, ^
<seb128> pitti, I don't remember the specifics but istaz is upstream for that one
<pitti> anyway, I'm happy to discuss that with upstream directly of course
<seb128> istaz, do you have example of things apport catch wrongly?
<pitti> istaz: hey! (and happy new year!)
<james_w> pitti: is apport turned on in lucid yet?
<seb128> <istaz>       seb128: it seem apport show crash dialog on certain error even if telepathy-butterfly doesn't crash
<seb128> james_w, no
<seb128> <istaz>       and the papyon libs we use generate a lot of error
<pitti> james_w: not yet, we planned to do so in the new year
<pitti> james_w: to at least catch python crashes; signal crashes are still broken due to a kernel bug
<mvo> mpt: hi, with the history branch we have that info now, we sort of had it before too
<james_w> pitti: ok, just wondering when to consider turning kerneloops on
<pitti> we should do it by alpha-2 anyway
<pitti> dobey, kenvandine: when do you plan to drop the U1 applet? (it's a work item for startup speed)
<mpt> mvo, what do you mean by "sort of"? :-)
<seb128> vuntz, hey
<seb128> vuntz, happy new year!
<mvo> mpt: there is information in the dpkg.log file, but for the real picture we need the apt history branch
<seb128> vuntz, who do I talk to about gnome-desktop breaking abi without soname change?
<pitti> bonjour vuntz, happy new year!
<mpt> mvo, ah. I was just wanting to know whether I could say "Installed on {date}" in the screen for an installed item.
<mvo> mpt: the dpkg.log contains a lot of noise, that is a bit of a problem
<mpt> right
<pitti> mvo: it also gets rotated away over time?
<mvo> mpt: i see, we can do that I think, but we need to cache it, its way to slow to parse it
<mvo> pitti: that too
<mpt> mvo, should we leave it until history is implemented then? Or would caching it require that much extra work regardless?
<mvo> mpt: just put it as a work item to the software-center-ui-improvements spec, I think its sufficiently different. but I can make no promises that we can land it for 2.0
<mpt> Ok, I'll punt it to the "Not scheduled" section
<mpt> thanks
<mvo> it should not be hard, the initial cost may be high and for some we can only guess (old installs that have no log information anymore)
<pitti> seb128: how much did the fontconfig stuff cost us again?
<mpt> mvo, maybe It can be one of the 101 things
<mvo> mpt: yeah. it needs some thinking about the caching (and cache invalidation), a slow implementation is trivial to do
<seb128> pitti, I would have to test again, it was winning some 2-3 seconds when I first tried
<seb128> but I tried to found if a specific config file was causing it and deleting each one, one by one
<pitti> seb128: that's spread over all programs, I take it?
<seb128> and didn't find anything making a real difference
<seb128> yes
<pitti> ok, thanks
<seb128> I guess that the antialiasing creates some work
<mvo> mpt: a interessting problem to think about :) do you have a mockup already? maybe I can do some prototyping on this
<seb128> so it's shared as extra load by everything rendering fonts
<seb128> + the cost of reading all the caches for the number of fonts we haver
<seb128> -
<seb128> -r
 * pitti lunches
<mpt> mvo, there are plenty of interesting problems for you to think about that are already in the spec ;-)
<mpt> mvo, for example, the categorized list view and making search work in it
<mpt> mvo, and repairing a broken apt cache without getting Update Manager to do it
<mvo> and plenty more indeed
<rodrigo_> can I publish a tar.gz in LP? I can't seem to find where to do it on my project page
<james_w> I think you need to make a release/milestone
<james_w> #launchpad will know if you can just host files not specific to a release
<vuntz> seb128: mclasen (since he did the tarball)
<seb128> you could think he would know better
<seb128> anyway I will ping him when he's around
<seb128> thanks
<vuntz> and happy new year to everyone here :-)
<baptistemm> salut vuntz
<rodrigo_> james_w: it's specific to a release
<rodrigo_> james_w: should I make an announcement then?
<james_w> ok, if you go to the milestone page you can add download files there
<rodrigo_> ah
<rodrigo_> james_w: I've got no milestones, so register a series first?
<james_w> yeah, you need a series to put a milestone on
<james_w> though you should have a default series?
<rodrigo_> james_w: I guess so -> https://edge.launchpad.net/libubuntuone
<james_w> what release are you making?
<james_w> just 0.1?
<james_w> will it be supported with 0.1.1 etc?
<rodrigo_> 0.0.1
<james_w> ok, so a series for tracking bugs to be backported to it etc. is not what you want?
<rodrigo_> no, just want to publish the tar.gz somewhere :)
<james_w> ok
<james_w> "Development focus: trunk series "
<james_w> click "trunk series" to go to https://edge.launchpad.net/libubuntuone/trunk
<james_w> and you should have "Create milestone Create release" links in the middle of the page
<james_w> You want "Create release"
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> vuntz, thanks for bumping the abi now ;-)
<seb128> vuntz, happy new year to you too!
<seb128> not sure now if I said that before :-)
<rodrigo_> james_w: ok, works now, thanks for your help :)
<james_w> np
<seb128> tedg, hey
<tedg> Good morning seb128!
<seb128> how are you?
<tedg> Doing well.  Trying to get all of the alpha 2 goals done :)
<seb128> what goal do you have for that?
<seb128> is fixing the rhythmbox icon issue on this list? ;-)
<tedg> Yes, that, and the ordering of application icons.
<seb128> bug fixing too? ;-)
<tedg> We have no bugs.
<seb128> there is several bugs on the upstream component
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I see ;-)
<tedg> The Rhythmbox patch has bugs?  Or Rhythmbox itself?
<seb128> I would say your indicator has a bug
<seb128> it doesn't search for icons in the rhythmbox dir
 * kenvandine thinks the there are bugs in the indicat* package/project naming
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> which is not really a bug by itself but somewhat a design flaw or lack of option
<seb128> we discussed that before holidays ;-)
<pitti> hey tedg, happy new year!
<seb128> tedg, we need a way to specify an extra icon lookup dir
<pitti> oh, are you guys discussing the broken incidator icon when RB is running?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<tedg> seb128: yes, I have a branch that already fixes that.  It's just not complete enough to merge.
<kenvandine> pitti, tedg is fixing it :)
<seb128> tedg, is that on the alpha2 schedule?
<tedg> seb128: Yes
<seb128> it sucks to have a broken icon ;-)
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> tedg, I will let you work then ;-)
<chrisccoulson> good afternoon everyone
<istaz> seb128: pitti happy new year
<seb128> chrisccoulson, to you too!
<seb128> istaz, thanks, happy new year to you too!
<istaz> pitti: if you have an Exception in a glib call back it doesn't crash the process
<chrisccoulson> i've finished work for the day now, so i can do some ubuntu work instead :)
<pitti> istaz: through dbus you mean?
<pitti> istaz: happy new year, too!
<istaz> pitti: no even with a timeout http://paste.debian.net/55675/
<istaz> but lot of error we get are from dus call yes
<pitti> ah, interesting
<pitti> so if you consider those "normal" in the msn backend, we should just add an apport hook to filter them out
<pitti> I don't want to ignore them for all programs, since in the general case those are bugs
<istaz> these are smalls bugs but non fatal ones. I'm actually ok if they get report in the unstable period since most of them should be fixed anyway
<istaz> but not once the release is done
<istaz> so what we currently have is ok
<pitti> kenvandine: when you merge packages, please use debuild's -v option to include the relevant debian changelogs; i. e. -v<last version in ubuntu>
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> ok
<JamieBennett> Seems todays image for iMX51 boots to a GDM login screen, is this the same across the board for other images and is there a fix?
<seb128> JamieBennett, hi, not a very desktopish question, I don't know
<rickspencer3> pitti, seb128, kenvandine, ccheney, etc... I'd like to get Bughugger into Universe, but Bughugger depends on Quidgets
<rickspencer3> I uploaded Quidgets to revu yesterday
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i will look over that in a bit
<rickspencer3> I'm sure the packaging is embarrassingly poor
<kenvandine> hehe :)
<pitti> it's not done with python-mkdebian? :-)
<rickspencer3> heh, I took the output of $quickly share and tinkered with it to make it match the documentation as best I could
<rickspencer3> I had to make an "upstream" tarbarll and all this crazy stuff, ScottK and Laney had to help quite a bit
<pitti> ./setup.py sdist
<dpm> hi pitti, I've just noticed that https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/loco-council-lucid-plans does not appear in the community burn-down chart. I guess it's because it hasn't got the 'community-lucid-' prefix in the spec's name. What's the best way to make it appear in the report?
<pitti> dpm: either rename it, or I add it to the filter for community
<pitti> the former would make it easier to search for the community specs on launchpad, but I don't mind either way
<dpm> pitti, ok thanks. I didn't register it, so I'll just ask jono to rename it.
<pitti> dpm: I can rename it as well if you want me to
<dpm> pitti, if you could do that, that'd be great, thanks. The new name should then be community-lucid-loco-council-lucid-plans (i.e. just add the community-lucid- prefix)
<pitti> dpm: oh, I had renamed it to c-l-loco-council-plans (not "lucid" two times)
<dpm> pitti, that's absolutely perfect
<pitti> done, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-loco-council-plans
<dpm> awesome, thanks pitti
<pitti> njpatel: do you happen to have an idea about the netbook-launcher crash in the live system?
<seb128> tedg, tedg1: how do you handle multi screen with the indicators?
<tedg1> seb128: ?  What do you mean?
<seb128> vino does a get_screen on the notification area icon
<seb128> to know where to spawn things
<seb128>   screen = gtk_status_icon_get_screen (GTK_STATUS_ICON (icon));
<seb128>   if (!gdk_spawn_command_line_on_screen (screen, "vino-preferences", &error))
<tedg1> Why wouldn't it be the current screen?
<njpatel> pitti: yes, I sent a patch to stevenk this morning (my time) which I think can fix it
<seb128> tedg1, ^
<njpatel> pitti: I believe it was late for him so he said he'll try it out when he's up
<seb128> tedg1, well, not sure why there is a gtk_status_icon_get_screen() if that's of no use ;-)
<seb128> they must have added the api for a reason
<seb128> tedg1, not sure why it wouldn't be the current screen, it's just there probably to ensure it's the current screen
<seb128> I guess it's a "don't bother and see if there is an issue or case where it breaks"
<tedg1> seb128: Yeah, the only case I could think of is where you'd want teh preferences on the same screen as the window.  But, that wouldn't be the screen of the icon.
<seb128> is gtk_spawn_command smart when you don't specify a screen?
<seb128> or does it always use the first screen?
<tedg1> seb128: I'm not sure.  GTK didn't have good screen support, but bratsche added some in this cycle.
<tedg1> seb128: I'm not sure that it *could have* been smart before :)
<seb128> what bratsche added is an api to get the primary screen right?
<seb128> in xrandr
<mclasen> tedg1: really ? well, if you say so...
<tedg1> mclasen: I thought you couldn't get the primary screen before?
<seb128> tedg1, well getting you the primary xrandr screen doesn't solve this issue
<ArneGoetje> ls
<tedg1> seb128: Oh, so if the panel wasn't on the primary screen?
<tedg1> That seems like an odd case.
<bratsche> seb128, ted: Yeah, all I added was something to determine the primary screen.
<tedg1> I guess what you really want is the screen that the mouse is in.
<bratsche> tedg1: The panel was using xrandr fu directly I think.  But gdm was on the wrong screen.
<seb128> tedg1, right, but will that work if you don't spawn with a specific screen?
<tedg1> seb128: I'm not sure, but if not, we should fix spawn_command -- that should be the default.
<seb128> well, how can spawn command know?
<tedg1> bratsche: yeah, I was thinking spawn_command should use the primary screen -- but I think I'm over that now :)
<tedg1> seb128: Ask? :)
<seb128> to who?
<seb128> you can have UI components on 2 screen
<tedg1> X
<seb128> how X would know what widget you care about?
<tedg1> I guess you could have two mice.
<bratsche> What's the problem here exactly?
<tedg1> I think it should be where the mouse is.
<seb128> bratsche,
<seb128> screen = gtk_status_icon_get_screen (GTK_STATUS_ICON (icon));
<seb128>    if (!gdk_spawn_command_line_on_screen (screen, "vino-preferences", &error))
<seb128> bratsche, ^ vino does that
<seb128> I was wondering what is the equivalent with the indicator
<seb128> or if that's required
<tseliot> isn't getting the primary screen possible only if the driver supports RandR 1.2 or 1.3? What happens with drivers that don't support it? Does gdm have fallbacks?
<seb128> and why
<bratsche> tseliot: Fallback is 0.
<tseliot> bratsche: ok, it makes sense. It's the best you can do in that case
<tedg1> Hmm, this is surprisingly complex.  With the possibility of multiple monitors, multiple mice and multiple representations of the application indicator I think we have an complete set of complexity.
 * bratsche tunes out and goes back to splitting drop-shadows out of c-s-d into another gtk branch :)
<tedg1> I'm kinda thinking we have to pass the screen.  Which seems like a horrible hack, and doesn't really work with things like twinview.
<mclasen> passing a screen is kinda pointless when you are after a monitor
<bratsche> nvidia supports xrandr monitor fu right?
<bratsche> I forgot, but I think so.
<tedg1> I thought they were planning to.  But, I haven't checked recently.
<tseliot> bratsche: nouveau does while nvidia (the proprietary driver) only supports RandR 1.1
<bratsche> I've got two monitors setup right now, I can test in a little bit if you want.  But I'm in the middle of branch surgery right now. :)
<tseliot> fglrx supports RandR 1.2
<rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 3 minutes
<rickspencer3> right?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, yes
<seb128> rickspencer3, now
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryyce, ccheney, kenvandine, pitti, seb128, tseliot
<ccheney> hi
<seb128> there ;-)
<rickspencer3> who am I missing?
<ArneGoetje> here
<tseliot> here I am
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-01-05
<rickspencer3> shall we start?
<kenvandine> yup
 * tseliot nods
<rickspencer3> first item was outstanding items from last meeting
<rickspencer3> this was something about pitti creating a wiki for even attendance
<rickspencer3> Martin to create conference attendance wiki page and ask team for adding themselves to it by mail
<rickspencer3> did we do anything with that?
<rickspencer3> I can ping randa and see if she has everything she needs from us
<rickspencer3> has everyone indicated their interest in meetings to attend?
<rickspencer3> meetings, conferences, parties, etc...
<seb128> I didn't
 * rickspencer3 tap tap, is this thing on?
<seb128> I've not noticed any ping or wiki page or anything for that
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> there was something...
<seb128> I want to go to GUADEC though ;-)
<ccheney> url?
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to round up event attendance
<rickspencer3> let's take this into email
<kenvandine> maybe an email
<seb128> I might have overspammed things when coming back
<seb128> I had some thousands spams in my inbox
<tseliot> attendance? I think I missed this
<rickspencer3> tseliot, if you want to attend a conference or event next year, you can tell randa now, and it will be much easier for you to arrange
<tseliot> rickspencer3: ah, ok
<rickspencer3> I'll send an email and we can get this done that way
<rickspencer3> shall we move on?
<kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-12-08
<kenvandine> there list is there... maybe he was going to move it somewhere
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> there will be some more DX releases this week
<kenvandine> which will cover what will end up in alpha2
<kenvandine> OLS won't have anything for the desktop in alpha2
<kenvandine> but they feel they are on track, mostly
<kenvandine> some server side nightmares
<kenvandine> but desktop stuff seems ok... even though their work items are trending the wrong way
<kenvandine> they just added more work items to match reality, and plan to catch up
<kenvandine> we will monitor that
<kenvandine> but again, nothing from them until alpha3
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, Dx seems rather over their trend-line
<kenvandine> a bit
<rickspencer3> "a bit" seems maybe an underestimate
<kenvandine> that is all i have for now
<kenvandine> hehe... well not as bad as OLS
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, have they discussed what is going to be in for a2 versus what will be postponed?
<kenvandine> we discussed that on monday
<kenvandine> i haven't tried to line that up with what they have targeted work items wise though
<kenvandine> we should do that so we can adjust work items accordingly
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> I have a meeting with dbarth tomorrow, I'll discuss with him tomorrow and let the desktop team know if I learn anything new
<rickspencer3> next is Kubuntu update, but Riddell is on vacation
<rickspencer3> so ccheney, Mozilla update?
<ccheney> i am currently working on backporting epiphany-browser along with its dependencies: libsoup2.4, webkit, etc
<ccheney> they use newer glib2.0 than what is in hardy but currently trying to copy the needed functions over so we won't need a full backport of glib as well
<ccheney> as per asac's recommendation
<seb128> urg
<seb128> that seems crazy to backport all that stack
<ccheney> seb128: yea its leaning towards crazy as more things get added to what needs backporting :-\
<pitti> argh, sorry
<rickspencer3> ccheney, are you concerned that it won't get done?
<pitti> was stuck in gdm debugging, there now
<seb128> it's rather than it could break quite some things
<rickspencer3> do we have a contingency plan?
<seb128> I'm concerned how much that can break
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, the situation, as discussed at UDS, is not good
<seb128> those libs are not known to have only minor limited changes
<asac> to understand how risky it is, we need to know what needs to be backported
<ccheney> rickspencer3: breakage plus complication added to the fact that there are lot more than just epiphany that needs changing to get rid of xulrunner depends
<seb128> well I would not jeopardize desktop stability for a web browser
<seb128> which is not our default one
<ccheney> backporting the entirety of glib would cause problems with symbol versioning, right?
<rickspencer3> asac, ccheney, if there is too much to backport, or it just doesn't work well, do we have a contingency plan?
<seb128> but well I'm out of this one
<seb128> just raising warnings that it seems risky
<seb128> I would rather drop epiphany support than break desktop just to update it
<asac> rickspencer3: we should think about when we get there.
<asac> dropping epiphany support is definitly the last result
<asac> resort
<asac> but thats really low on the option list imo.
<seb128> can't you use static copies or something?
<rickspencer3> asac, I would rather know that we have a contingency plan
<rickspencer3> ccheney, ^
<seb128> rather than risk stability for system libs?
<asac> so far i didnt see anything uncovered that needs to backport changes to existing glib functions ... just new once
<asac> ones
<seb128> I'm rather concerned about the libsoup and webkit updates
<pitti> we could copy the newer source package and fake the ABI version?
<rickspencer3> is dropping epiphany support the contingency plan? seems rather not what we promised
<seb128> not about adding functions to glib
<asac> seb128: those will go in using a different name
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> like, introduce a newer fake abi for the hardy backports?
<asac> its just glib and gtk we cannot treat that way
<ccheney> pitti: yea we were planning on changing the soname for them
<asac> because of plugins
<seb128> fine with me then
<seb128> I was under the impression you wanted to update system libsoup webkit etc
<asac> no thats not the case
<seb128> ignore my comments
<seb128> ok good
<asac> i just want to ensure that webkit and libsoup can be build without upgrading glib/gtk ... but those libs will get a new package name
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> ccheney, so next week you can tell us how the backporting went?
<ccheney> rickspencer3: yes
<rickspencer3> what is the next step after the backporting of epiphany?
<pitti> there's also at least devhelp
<asac> we have a huge list of rdepends. not all are required to be moved away
<asac> from xulrunner ... only those that are exposed to insecure content
<pitti> asac: ah, that'd help
<asac> devhelp is probably not a high prio candidate
<pitti> devhelp and yelp can stay as they are then, I figure
<ccheney> i have to get libsoup2.4 rebuilt in two ways due to a circular dependency then see what breaks next in epiphany build and test it afterwards
<asac> yes. libsoup2.4 needs bootstrapping
<rickspencer3> ok, so sounds quite some effort for ccheney on epiph. and libsoup this week
<rickspencer3> thanks for the update
<rickspencer3> moving on?
<ccheney> ok
<rickspencer3> release status
<rickspencer3> so, we are over the trend line in work items, and we have picked a few up
<rickspencer3> I went through the list and it appeared that bryyce and kenvandine had the toughest ratios lef
<rickspencer3> t
<kenvandine> :(
<pitti> uh, today there actually was an increase in WIs
<kenvandine> i will re-evaluate what is left in social-from-the-start tomorrow, hopefully after all the couch stuff is merged
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, bryyce can you guys go through and postpone work items that aren't going to get done for a2?
<rickspencer3> pitti, I noticed that, I edited a blueprint or two to move things off the milestone, I wonder if I tweaked something the wrong way
<rickspencer3> in any case ...
<rickspencer3> the reason I am looking at work items is that I am also looking at bugs
<rickspencer3> and we need to get ready for a3 work items
<rickspencer3> I would like to suggest that we choose a number which is some fraction of the number of work items we *completed* in a2
<rickspencer3> and limit our a3 work items to that number
<rickspencer3> and basically assume that we will do few work items for beta 2
<rickspencer3> this will force some serious selectivity sooner rather than later
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<pitti> we have some 390 WIs left for final lucid
<pitti> so this means to drop BP targets aggressively
<pitti> (like all the low ones)
<rickspencer3> I'm guessing that we'll achieve about 80 or 90
<rickspencer3> in a2
<rickspencer3> pitti, right
<rickspencer3> it's just the facts of our capacity ... we could shoot for 390 work items, but if we have measures that suggest that isn't doable, perhaps we can address that situation now
<rickspencer3> I'd rather disappoint people than surprise them
<rickspencer3> (at least not surprise them in a bad way)
<rickspencer3> and I'
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-touchscreen-handling
<pitti> that has 22 WIs and is low
<pitti> and just a target of opportunity anyway
<rickspencer3> d also like to ensure that we have plenty of bandwidth for bug fixing and integration
<rickspencer3> pitti, right, good point, we can just defer that whole blueprint
 * rickspencer3 wipes tear from eye
<pitti> many of those on http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/report.html are from Kubuntu, though
<rickspencer3> all: what are your thoughts on this approach?
<tseliot> things should be easier when I receive the new touchscreen but yes, I doubt it will be ready in time for Lucid
<rickspencer3> seb128, kenvandine: thoughts on limiting the number of work items based on the number we got down in a2?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i think we need to look at them based on the individuals load
<pitti> if we include all the "high" ones, we should have a decent amount of work
<bryyce> heya
<rickspencer3> like each person measures their own capacity based on a2?
<pitti> hey bryyce, happy new year!
<rickspencer3> hiya bryyce
<rickspencer3> kenvandine,  like each person measures their own capacity based on a2?
<pitti> how about I run through the list and make a proposal for alpha-3 targetting next week?
<kenvandine> sort of...
<pitti> (based on individual capacity and alpha-2 items)
<kenvandine> like how big the work item is
<rickspencer3> pitti, <3
<rickspencer3> that would rock
<kenvandine> and how if one person has like 90
<pitti> seems easier than figuring it out in a meeting
<kenvandine> yeah
<rickspencer3> well, I thought we should discuss the approach as a team
<pitti> erm, and based on priority, too, of course
<kenvandine> yeah
<pitti> right, we should
<rickspencer3> seems that it impacts the way people work and their commitments
<kenvandine> we should each look at what is on our plate though and weed out the noise to make the big picture easier to digest
<rickspencer3> ACTION: pitti to propose a3 work item list based on measured capacity in a2, priority, and work item size
<rickspencer3> pitti ^ sound about right?
<pitti> *nod*
<rickspencer3> speaking of noise
 * rickspencer3 subtly moves on
<rickspencer3> I ran a query yesterday ...
<rickspencer3> for all the packages that someone on the the desktop team is subscribed to
<rickspencer3> what are the bug tasks on each of those packages?
<rickspencer3> the list is almost 15,000
<rickspencer3> !
<rickspencer3> !!!
<pitti> that doesn't say much, though
<asac> some are subscribed to whole ubuntu maybe?
<pitti> I subscribe to each bug I comment on
<rickspencer3> pitti, this is *packages*
<pitti> oh, that's package bug contact or explicit sub?
<pitti> ah
<rickspencer3> I haven't had a chance to slice and dice the data, but it tells me that the desktop has lots of bugs
<rickspencer3> well, bug reports anyway
<rickspencer3> so I'm hoping that we can use this to hone in on any areas that maybe need a bit more attention or such
<asac> 15k source packages really feels like someone or more than one have signed up for whole ubuntu
<rickspencer3> asac, 15,000 bug tasks
<pitti> I think that was 15k bugs, wasn't it?
<asac> ah
<rickspencer3> related to subscribed packages
<rickspencer3> anyway, if anyone wants to list, I can can attach it to the wiki
<rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to attach mondo bug list to wiki
<rickspencer3> also, please note that we have 46 bugs with status of New that are assigned to someone on the desktop team
<rickspencer3> and we also have 62 assigned bugs that are Critical or High
<rickspencer3> so I am keen to find the right ratio of work items to bug fixing in a3
<rickspencer3> any thoughts on the New or High+ lists?
 * bryyce ponders
<pitti> triaging 62 bugs seems entirely doable
<pitti> and almost in the range of the permanent turnover?
<bryyce> could be
<pitti> 46 I mean
<rickspencer3> pitti, right
<rickspencer3> that's fine
<pitti> but we do need more time to attack assigned bugs
<rickspencer3> I'll look through them and see if there are any that should be "won't fix" or otherwise not assigned
<bryyce> if the 62 assigned bugs are mostly High, that probably is not to be too concerned with; I imagine most of our bugs should be of at least high priority
<pitti> (like what you said when proposing to drop targets)
<bryyce> but if a significant number are Critical, that may be a bigger deal
<rickspencer3> there are 3 critical bugs
<pitti> kenvandine: thaks for fixing the whiteboard; http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha2/report.html looks better now
<kenvandine> :)
<bryyce> ok, 3 sounds pretty good actually
<rickspencer3> great
<seb128> re
<seb128> sorry I missed the end of the meeting
<rickspencer3> so let's continue to explore how we can be more efficient at finding the right bugs to fix
<seb128> the wifi driver crashed or something to way to reconnect, so I rebooted
<bryyce> how often are the burn charts regenerated?  hourly?
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<seb128> and empty screen for 15 minutes
<pitti> bryyce: hourly, yes
<seb128> I though it was doing a fsck or something and did reboot again after a while since it was using cpu
<pitti> bryyce: (but I just kicked off a run manually after seeing kenvandine's whiteboard fixes)
<bryyce> ah
<kenvandine> it doesn't make sense for a blueprint to have a milestone target of alpha-2 with work items in alpha-3 and beta-1 :)
<rickspencer3> is that a wrap?
<pitti> rickspencer3: so after beta-1, we would ideally have 0 work items from blueprints, and 100% time for bug fixing
<rickspencer3> pitti, that is my thought, yes
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: my bugs on that High list are all for Hardy, they don't apply to Lucid.
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, but they take time and attention
<pitti> rickspencer3: which will blatantly not be true for e. g. kenvandine, since DX/OLS stuff will keep coming; but we could at least try
<rickspencer3> if you are not going to fix them, you should close them
<rickspencer3> pitti, well, I would say "bug fixing and integration"
<kenvandine> yeah... for me that will be the busy time :/
<pitti> not close, unassign please
<pitti> kenvandine: well, your busy time in lucid is between October and April, right?
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> feb/march is when stuff gets crammed down my throat that i might not have been expecting :)
 * kenvandine doesn't think that will be the case this time ... maybe just wishful thinking :)
<rickspencer3> ok, I think that's a wrap?
 * rickspencer3 lifts gavel
 * rickspencer3 positions gavel
 * kenvandine knocks it out of rickspencer3's hand
 * rickspencer3 lovingly polishes handle of gavel
<tseliot> :-D
<rickspencer3> aaah
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> I would tap the gavel, but I am too lazy to pick it off the floor
<rickspencer3> thanks everybody!
<bryyce> thanks
<kenvandine> hehe
<pitti> thanks all
<seb128> thanks
<tseliot> thanks
<rickspencer3> going to get some breakfast, bbiab
<kenvandine> time for lunch :)
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryyce, ccheney, kenvandine, pitti, seb128, tseliot: I forgot mention, today is the last day for me to sign off on 2009 expense reports
<tseliot> thanks for mentioning it
<rickspencer3> so I'll check for them before I log off tonight
<bryyce> rickspencer3, pretty sure all mine are in
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, mine are done :)
<seb128> asac, is gnome-bluetooth still on your todolist?
<Martinp23> i've got working branch for bug 499992 , but it has a build dep on the new vte (which is uploaded), however that failed to build on powerpc because the buildd was, i think, out of order. What should happen next?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 499992 in gnome-terminal "Update gnome-terminal to 2.29.1" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499992
<seb128> don't bother about transitional build issues on powerpc for updates
<Martinp23> yay, ok. If you (or anyone) gets a few minutes could you review my update (linked from the bug) please? :)
<seb128> could you subscribe the ubuntu-main-sponsors to it?
<seb128> I'm about to go for dinner
<seb128> but somebody might pick it up from the sponsoring list
<Martinp23> sure :)
<asac> bryyce: do we support any usb to vga adapter oob?
<bryyce> asac, not afaik unless upstream slipped in support recently
<asac> seb128: yes. i reviewed it and had only one thing i wasnt sure
<asac> seb128: but i couldnt figure how to reproduce that corner case, so the merge as it is can go up
<seb128> asac, go go go ;-)
<asac> let me do it ... still have 5 minutes before taxi is picking me up for some snow travel ;)
<asac> who knows if i ever return :-P
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you should go there is no hurry
<seb128> I'm sure you will return ;-)
<bratsche> Good luck! :)
<pitti> kenvandine: I'm retargeting social-from-the-start to alpha-2, otherwise it falls off the alpha-2 work item report completely (it only scans BPs targetted to alpha2)
<kenvandine> pitti, oh... i guess that is why it was that way
<asac> ok ... guess i really have to run :/
<asac> cu in a few
<charlie-tca> seb128: question about Abiword? Abiword 2.8 was synced a couple of weeks ago, for lucid. However, it has dependencies in both main and universe. Are the universe dependencies still needed?
<heret1c> hello :-)
<heret1c> wither no #ubuntu-networkingwifi?
<pitti> bryyce: I think https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-driver-selection-for-nvidia-hardware should land early or not at all in lucid; do you think we should put it on the alpha-3 list? (it would be your first and only alpha-3 blueprint, but I'm not sure what else is on your plate)
<heret1c> #ubuntu-networking/wifi
<bryyce> pitti, at this point mostly it's up to the kernel team
<bryyce> pitti, I agree sooner is better.  leave it targeted at alpha3, I'll make sure we come to a conclusion with it by then.
<pitti> bryyce: right, so that will at least keep it on our radar; I'm inclined to say that if it's not there by a3, we postpone it to lucid+1, WDYT?
<bryyce> pitti, agreed
<seb128> charlie-tca, I don't know I pinged some xubuntu guys to ask if they want to sort this issue
<seb128> didn't really get a reply
<seb128> I don't care enough abiword to write a mir for it
<charlie-tca> I am trying to find out about it for them. You were down as the person to talk to.
<heret1c> may networking issues be raised/solved here?
<chrisccoulson> heret1c - #ubuntu for support
<heret1c> 1482 users
<heret1c> abysmal noise/signal ratio.
<charlie-tca> heret1c: sometimes ##beginners-help  can help
<heret1c> charlie-tca: not listed, afaics.
<johanbr> charlie-tca, do you know what the dependencies in universe are?
<charlie-tca> sorry, heret1c. I tried
<charlie-tca> johanbr: no, I just got told by Lionel about it.
<charlie-tca> He said he will try to work it this weekend
<seb128> re
<seb128> charlie-tca, either move abiword to universe or find somebody interested to get the build-depends sorted
<charlie-tca> Working on that. Thanks
<charlie-tca> we will get it sorted out
<seb128> thank you
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> as long as we know what is happening, we can work it out
<pitti> good night everyone
<chrisccoulson> good night pitti
<rickspencer3> oops lost track of time
<rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Hey there. How was your break?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, it was nice
<rickspencer3> seemed very long (in a good way)
<rickspencer3> with lots of family time and lots of fun hacking
<rickspencer3> how about you, TheMuso?
<TheMuso> Also nice thanks, we had a nice wet Christmas day, which was a nice change from the hot Christmas days we usually have. It was also great to catch up with family, and be away from the computer.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, so, we're so supposed to have the Eastern Edition now, but I think it's just you an dme
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: RIght, I am just reading through the wiki page now.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, I hadn't updated it from the meeting
 * rickspencer3 looks
<TheMuso> right, explains why its a little empty.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, right, I was too busy this morning with last minute filing of three months of expenses
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> so, here's quick summary ....
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> ok
<rickspencer3> 1. I'll take the whole "what conferences do you want to attend" thing to email
<TheMuso> ok
<rickspencer3> 2. pitti has put together a draft a3 work plan for work items
<rickspencer3> essentially, I would like us to try for *fewer* work items in a3 than we went for in a2 to allow for plenty of time for bug fixing and integration
<TheMuso> Right, I saw that amil.
<rickspencer3> then for the last iteration, we don't do any of our own work items, but rather focus on bug fixing and integration
<rickspencer3> this means that lots of stuff we were hoping to do we will postpone probably in the next week or so
<TheMuso> Right.
<rickspencer3> but I would rather disappoint than surprise with features, and deliver good quality
<rickspencer3> that's the current thought process anyway, we discussed it a bit this morning
<rickspencer3> we are also way over the trend line atm for a2
<rickspencer3> we are at around 27 when we should be around 13
<TheMuso> Ok sounds good, I've been burried in hda code the last couple of days, but plan to hit up all audio package bug lists to see if there is anything lying around that can be addressed that we have looked over.
<rickspencer3> we'll see what happens
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, sounds good
<rickspencer3> in fact, I wanted to discuss this with you a bit
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: sure.
<rickspencer3> in the same way that kenvandine reports on partners, and Riddell reports on Kubuntu each week ...
<rickspencer3> that is with just a few bullet point summary ...
<rickspencer3> I would like to see something similar for audio
<TheMuso> Right, I'll have a go at getting something like that ready for next week, once I've gone through audio bugs.
<rickspencer3> something that is very easy for you to report, but without getting bogged down in rendering 3d graphs and such
<rickspencer3> ^Dilbert reference
<TheMuso> Sure.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, any thoughts as to what might be interesting to report in that manner?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Probably just what is going on audio stack wise, and new issues arrising from several bug reports/commonly reported issues with lucid/karmic/etc.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, sounds good
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: If you or anyone else have anything in mind, I'd be happy to hear the suggestion.
<rickspencer3> let's just see how it goes next week
<rickspencer3> so, we ccheney discussed Mozilla as well
<TheMuso> Right.
<rickspencer3> looks like he has some tough backporting to do to Hardy
<TheMuso> I also just saw your mail re his taking ownership of that b lueprint.
<rickspencer3> yeah, poor ccheney ;)
 * ccheney isn't even sure if the glib cut/paste job is even a good idea due to security update implications of it
<rickspencer3> it was good of him to step in and help us with that
<rickspencer3> ccheney, what do you mean?
 * ccheney is having to cut/paste a large chunk of code out of glib that is newer than what is in hardy into libsoup
<ccheney> seems to be nearly all the networking related code in glib but maybe that is just my impression :)
<rickspencer3> what specific components rely on the new glib functions?
<ccheney> soup needs a lot of the newer code that is only available in glib 2.22 and higher and asac/seb128 didn't think it would be a good idea to try to backport glib itself so to just copy the code, but i'm not sure if that is really a good idea longterm
<rickspencer3> "long term" = so long as we support Hardy, right?
<ccheney> seems a lot of it, i have about 20 functions to copy over along with helper definitions, etc just for soup, from what i recall webkit needs some new glib functions as well
<rickspencer3> so you are putting these new functions directly into the backported soup, right?
<ccheney> rickspencer3: yea, i don't know how often security issues are found in glib so it might not be a real problem
<ccheney> yes
<rickspencer3> so then if a security issue comes up in glib, you'll have to check if it impacts the code you moved to soup, right?
<ccheney> i put them into a glib-copy file to be included by parts that need it
<ccheney> yea
<rickspencer3> this is *exactly* the life that asac has been living with mozilla for years ;)
<ccheney> heh
<ccheney> well and the fact of are we going to have to replicate these copies for everything we backport
<rickspencer3> so then it should bleed off over time as we in place upgrade mozilla rather than backport security patches to versions they don't support
<ccheney> and i'm a little unclear as to if i backport these glib functions for each library that need them will there will be a collision issue between eg soup, webkit, etc each having the same functions in them?
<rickspencer3> well, I think the idea is to get soup working asap and see what we learn from that
<ccheney> well we won't really know if it is working properly until we have soup, webit, proxy and epiphany-browser all backported, i think
<ccheney> pitti: if i copy functions into the source of libraries that use each other will that cause a symbol collision/breakage when i try to run them?
<rickspencer3> ccheney, but after you do soup, won't the others be very easy?
<ccheney> rickspencer3: i think webkit has the potential to be as hard, it might not be too bad if it ends up using the same functions though
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> ccheney, so how long to do all four?
<ccheney> and i am a little vague on as to if this will work at all due to symbol collision
<rickspencer3> are you planning on getting that all done for next week
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - it should be ok as long as you're not declaring the functions in any public headers shouldn't it?
 * chrisccoulson thinks
<ccheney> i am going to try to, i don't know if there are more libraries after these four that need work as well, i got to four when it failed
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: i'm not sure how it works for c, iirc on c++ that is true
<james_w> as long as the symbols are provided by exactly one shared object at runtime you should be ok
<james_w> there are obviously ABI concerns as well
<rickspencer3> well, it seems that we wouldn't get very far if no program could have a library with a function call named the same as in another program, so I am not too worried
<ccheney> james_w: hmm thats what i thought to, since every library will have a copy of the functions in them i think it will end up colliding
<james_w> ccheney: yeah, that's not going to work
<james_w> only one public symbol can live in each process
<ccheney> i suppose i will need to find all the functions needed and then make a new library package that they all use
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Anything else from the meeting that I should know about? :)
<chrisccoulson> the functions aren't being exposed publicly though are they?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, nope, just we are still dicsussing mozilla support ;)
<rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
<james_w> ccheney: why do they need to go in to several libraries?
<chrisccoulson> you just want to add the functions statically to your libraries, without exposing them publicly?
<james_w> ccheney: if they are going in to one, why can't the others use that one?
<ccheney> james_w: hmm well would have to change the build dependencies of the packages to link against each other i think
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: yea that would work too
<james_w> ccheney: why not backport them to glib?
<james_w> you are taking the code back anyway, why not do it once and put it in the library they all use anyway
<ccheney> james_w: hmm i guess we could do that :)
<james_w> there should be very little risk from backporting new code
 * ccheney isn't actually sure why we don't just backport the new glib as is
<james_w> if seb doesn't think it's a good idea to backport the changes to existing functions then don't backport those bits
<chrisccoulson> i think seb128 has reservations about backporting the whole of glib
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: yea
<james_w> that's reliant on the two things not being tied together, but if they are you are stuck anyway
<ccheney> ok i'll try to create a diff of old glib to new and drop anything that changes existing functions
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - that might be quite a big task ;)
<chrisccoulson> there's a lot of commits between the 2 versions you are going to diff
<ccheney> hmm yea i haven't look to see how huge the diff is :)
<chrisccoulson> it won't be small
<ccheney> wow yea that is a big diff
<asac> ccheney: whats the current prob?
<ccheney> asac: more and more things keep needing to be added
<ccheney> i think by the time i get to epiphany itself i will probably nearly need new glib itself
<ccheney> the functions pulled in lots of other things and still working on trying to get it to stop asking for more bits
<ccheney> and epiphany also needs new gtk along with new glib so there will likely be huge amounts of things needing to be pulled in by the time i get to it
<ccheney> whats the downside of dropping epiphany? :)
<asac> it would set a bad precendence  ... .prematuraly EOL for software we committed to support
<ccheney> isn't epiphany in universe?
<asac> since karmic
<ccheney> oh it used to be in main, but main doesn't necessarily equal supported as i keep getting reminded, so was that in the supported subset?
<asac> before that its in main
<asac> yes
<asac> main usually is supported
<asac> it was seeded on dvd
<ccheney> oh
<asac> i wouldnt suggest all this if there was an easy way ;)
<ccheney> so how do we tell if something is supported, if it is on the dvd? :) i forgot how to determine it other than its just not all of main
<asac> short: main
 * ccheney will see how it goes with just copying in the files that soup uses into glib
<asac> its definitly support if seeded in a suppported product or in the "supported" seed
<asac> if you copy full files you will certainly pick up more garbage.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, ccheney, desktoppers ...
<rickspencer3> do you guys know bjf-afk ?
<ccheney> no
<rickspencer3> he's on the kernel team, but is focused on helping desktop for Lucid
<ccheney> cool :)
<rickspencer3> mostly audio, I think
<rickspencer3> I woke him up ;_
<ccheney> bjf: please also fix disk io causes system to stall bug :)
<bjf> yawn!
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, have you and bjf worked together at all?
<ccheney> that causes audio problems too i think so could fall under that :)
<ccheney> asac: is this the proper seed? https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.hardy
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - you have those problems too? ;)
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: for years
<bjf> I've been working on "crack-of-the-day" builds for both lucid and karmic, I've tried to keep TheMuso in the loop
<ccheney> bad enough to nearly drive me back to windows
<bjf> ccheney, what's the bug number?
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - that must be really bad :(
<ccheney> bjf: not sure, i'll have to look around and forward to you, its been happening for years, i hear rumors the new lucid kernel might finally fix it though
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: yea any high disk io usually causes my system to totally grey out nothing works until its done
<chrisccoulson> ccheney - yeah, my system does that too
<ccheney> chrisccoulson: easiest way to reproduce it is to do a torrent file check
<bjf> ccheney, I think we've all run into it one time or another (other distros have the same issue I've heard)
<ccheney> bjf: yea, aiui some new patch from con kolivas might help
 * ccheney needs to upgrade to lucid and test it on a test machine
<ccheney> bjf: so you are also working on quirks i guess?
<asac> ccheney: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.hardy/annotate/head:/dvd
<bjf> ccheney, yup
<ccheney> asac: ah
<TheMuso> bjf: Yeah I got your mail.
<TheMuso> bjf: I am wondering whether we should move them to the audio-dev team ppa. I have also meant to add you to that team. Whats your lp username?
<bjf> TheMuso, "brad-figg"
 * ccheney mutters about evil dvd seed ;-)
<asac> ccheney: you should mutter about the attitude of developers to always use latest crack of lib stuff (rather than letting it sink for a couple of year) ... and even on libs that use the latest crack of other libs
<asac> often its really just a simple helper for three lines of code ... still they jump on that as if it was the greatest innovation in the world
<ccheney> heh yea :-\
<asac> anyway. all this doesnt help. it needs thorough work to get it done
<ccheney> well these are gnome platform libs so they expect to all be at the same version
<ccheney> yea
<asac> right. but thats wrong
<asac> ccheney: it always feels endless that way, but usually at some point the work is finished and then its something to be proud of ;)
<asac> ccheney: anyway. what we can do is to compare symbol usage to estimate how much we need
<asac> without trying until it works
 * ccheney is starting to see why the evil that is OOo exists with all its 3rd party libs embedded in source :)
<ccheney> asac: ah ok
<ccheney> which is the proper objdump flag for that?
<asac> right. ooo and ffox and all those folks that want to provide decent software that works in more than just one ubuntu release, have no choice
<asac> so they are in fact not evil
<ccheney> -t says no symbols, do i need to build and force to not strip
<ccheney> ah -T
<asac> huh?
<asac> nm -D
<asac> for libs
<asac> but yes. objdump is probably better
<ccheney> hmm that doesn't seem to be matching up
<ccheney> nm i think i am looking at it wrong
<ccheney> yea i was looking at the gnome lib instead of main soup
<asac> ccheney: so get what is referenced with glib_ from the one/lucid/karmic consumer and check what is not in the hardy lib
<asac> that should get a good first idea
<asac> do same for gtk and for webkit etc.
<ccheney> ok
<ccheney> 127 symbols for soup
<ccheney> including stuff like g_poll
<ccheney> bunch of new object and value symbols
<ccheney> hmm the value symbols aren't listed as new but don't appear to be in old glib
 * ccheney is confused why there aren't in the api docs as new
<ccheney> appears the new symbols list is incomplete
<asac> please paste
<asac> at best with the command you used to extract
<asac> ccheney: ^
<ccheney> 175 symbols between webkit and libsoup
<ccheney> ok
<ccheney> just a moment
<ccheney> oh yea 175 just for glib functions
<asac> btween webkit and libsoup?
<asac> thats not the deal
<ccheney> yea
<asac> we want to know webkit vs. glib
<ccheney> how many webkit uses of the new glib, yea
<asac> paste ;)
<asac> with command
<ccheney> 175 new functions between libsoup and webkit that are not in the hardy glib
<asac> p
<ccheney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/352022/
<ccheney> same for libsoup and libsoup-gnome and then combined for the list at the bottom
<asac> so thats definitly a wrong list ;)
<ccheney> hmm?
<asac> you probably need to include more .so's from glib
<asac> well
<asac> g_object_get -> certainly not new ;)
<asac> g_object_get_data -> dito
<asac> almost all symbols i see there are really old
<asac> all g_value*
<ccheney> oh yea i see now oops
<asac> all g_object*
<asac> dont be a bot :-Ã
<asac> hehe
<ccheney> there are libg* in /usr/lib vs /lib/libglib*
<ccheney> doh
<asac> you will figure
<ccheney> ok will rerun :)
 * ccheney hopes for a much smaller number
<asac> rerunning without fixing wont help :)
<asac> it will be
<ccheney> yea
<asac> really small ;)
<asac> i would reall yhope that webkit doesnt really jump on latest glib stuff
<asac> i mean ... chromium uses most parts and they build it on hardy ;)
<asac> and glib is one of the few things they use as system libs
<ccheney> down to 22 :)
<ccheney> apparently webkit only uses 2 of them
<ccheney> and libsoup a different 20
<asac> ccheney: paste ;)
<ccheney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/352028/
<ccheney> mainly network stuff for libsoup except for poll and some context push/pop thing
<asac> ccheney: ok the webkit _unref function probably is somethig inlined ... so a none-issue
<asac> most likely the code uses the previous _free equivalent
<ccheney> ok
<asac> not sure about g_dgettext .. i would think its also somehow inlined
<asac> or generated during build in modern glib env
<asac> so most likely webkit is fine
<asac> please do the same for gtk
<ccheney> ok
<asac> the libsoup symbols look all easy to do
<asac> basically it was what we already found yesterday
<asac> PLUS g_poll
<asac> which is quite well confined in the source
<asac> hmm g_main_context_pop_thread_default
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-06
<asac> hmm g_static_private_get has no info in apidoc when it was added :)
<asac> ok g_private_get was added in 2000
<asac> so thats probably in
<asac> same for static private get
<asac> so yeah. the g_main_context_pop_thread_default
<asac> funcs can just be inlined
<asac> g_poll is confined too
<asac> feels doable
<asac> i think the main_context stuff you cannot inline into libsoup, but thats the thing we need to add to main.c in glib
<asac> the rest can be done where they are used from what i can see
<asac> ccheney: ^^
<asac> so ... with that, do you feel comfortable to get libsoup done by static inline copying the funcs from the paste to where they are used?
<ccheney> ok
<ccheney> i think so
<ccheney> looking at gdk/gtk now
<asac> yeah
<asac> webkit should really be backporter friendly in general i would hope ;)
<ccheney> as best as i can tell webkit only uses the following two from gdk/gtk
<ccheney> gdk_x11_window_get_drawable_impl
<asac> ccheney: do the same for epiphany
<ccheney> gtk_widget_get_window
<asac> e.g. glib and gtk check
<asac> only two?
<asac> good
<ccheney> yea it seems to be
<asac> but maybe check all libs that come from the webkit
<asac> i thought that also comes with gtk wrappers ... would be odd if they dont have anything
<ccheney> it seems there is only one lib but two libexec to check
<ccheney> looks like they went away between hardy and karmic
<ccheney> just has a common, dbg, library, and dev package now
<ccheney> epiphany itself brings in gobject-introspection stuff along with cairo, and other things i am not sure if those are really needed for new versions though
<asac> ccheney: i am not sure why you think webkit uses only two gtk_ symbols
<asac> i see loads of them
<asac> if i check with nm -D
<asac> in karmic
<ccheney> i only saw two that didn't exist in hardy
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/352041/
<ccheney> unless i screwed it up somehow :(
<asac> ok. those are probably inline stuff too
<asac> then i misunderstood
<asac> as i said, chromium uess glib and gtk from trunk
<asac> err from hardy :-P
 * asac should wait for context-switches to finish
<ccheney> lot more for epiphany
<ccheney> 7 gdk, 34 gtk
<ccheney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/352045/
<ccheney> hmm
<ccheney> its supposed to already have some of those symbols in 2.12
<ccheney> like gtk_status_icon_is_embedded
<ccheney> my diff is messed up somehow
<asac> thats expected ephy i could have placed a bet on ephy folks jumping on latest symbols instantly ;)
<asac> gtk_toolbar_new -> that feels old ;)
<asac> most likely since 2.0
<asac> as there is no "Since field" in api doc
<ccheney> ugh wasn't sorted right
<asac> i guess gtk_status_ is new
<ccheney> 4 and 13 not as bad
<asac> also added in 2.10 already
<asac> good
<asac> please paste
<asac> ccheney: oh. can we put that on the wiki page somehow?
<asac> all those results we find here ;)
<asac> just thinking would be good
<asac> or a bug
<asac> ;)
<ccheney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/352048/
<asac> ok the gdk_ stuff is not an issue in intrepid jaunty at least ;)
<ccheney> great :)
<asac> the entry icon stuff is 2.16 ... so intrepid too
<asac> an issue
<asac> ccheney: ok. so maybe to finish today make a wiki page about the epiphany backporting effort and add the symbols that need backporting. we can then track implementatoin of those etc. there and also document in advance if they are needed in intrepid etc.
<ccheney> ok
<asac> of course feel free to finish libsoup ;)
<ccheney> :)
<asac> for hardy
<ccheney> yea
 * ccheney is being called to dinner, bbl
<rickspencer3> empathy so rocks
<rickspencer3> I wonder if I can get by without vonage?
<ccheney> rickspencer3: i just use a cheap voip provider with a cisco spa-3102 box (~ $70), you could do something like that and have sip to you empathy and to home phones
<ccheney> not sure if you can do that with vonage or not
<ccheney> with the spa-3102 i have a landline to send faxes and alarm system and can router local calls out of it for free and just use the voip for long distance
<ccheney> s/router/route/
<ccheney> all using the same phones, just setup the dial plan to automatically send the calls where they belong
<TheMuso> The spa3102 is a great box, I use one of those with my VoIP and a cordless handset, with naked DSL.
<cknight725> http://192.168.1.102/cumine/displayimage.php?album=52&pos=23
<cknight725> oops -- disregard -- apologies
<LLStarks> hey bratsche. sup
<LLStarks> i have a question about the rgba/decorations code that just landed
<huats> morning everyone
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> ccheney: I'm not sure that I fully understand your question, but I don't see why it shouldn't work; the second  library that you build will have a bumped dependency to the first (since you have to increase the shlibs version for both), but that shouldn't matter
<seb128> hello there
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> spent another hour fighting to get karmic somewhat working for my cousin
<seb128> some days I realize that ubuntu is not "there" yet
<seb128> toshiba laptop = fail
<seb128> the pixma combi = fail too
<pitti> I get that told every other week by a friend of mine
<seb128> needs to get debs on the web to get that working
<seb128> after fighting resume still doesn't work in karmic
<seb128> works on a lucid usb stick though
<seb128> but I can't upgrade him to lucid now
<seb128> and fan is always blowing full speed
<seb128> which is very noisy and annoying
<pitti> lucid> at least there's improvement in sight
<seb128> which I've no clue how to fix
 * seb128 happy to have dell intel hardware
<seb128> Hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> good thanks
<seb128> you?
<seb128> you managed to travel back from work yesterday?
<pitti> I'm off for about an hour for some errands
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we finished work early yesterday
<chrisccoulson> i came in this morning, but most of my colleagues stayed at home!
<seb128> slomo, hi
<slomo> seb128: hi
<seb128> slomo, you might want to backport http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=acb6f4ff33bb9eebd8c2b8ba4404d282426e1eeb
<seb128> I just did for lucid
<seb128> without it synaptic seahorse gtg crash
<seb128> well it's only in experimental for debian
<seb128> so you can probably wait next week update too
<seb128> just letting you know
<slomo> thanks, i already noticed these crashes and wanted to look for a solution later today :)
<slomo> saved me some time
<seb128> cool
<seb128> I wish debian allowed source uploads
<seb128> I would have uploaded directly to debian
<seb128> it takes ages to upload gtk binaries from there
<slomo> np :) i'll build and upload it now
<seb128> thanks
 * hyperair grumbles about stupid gnome screensaver not noticing my mouse movements while fading while i'm watching a video on mplayer. so annoying.
<tjaalton> pitti: hey, you had some ideas for the evdev udev rules, now that it loads the driver for devices like the video bus etc
<tjaalton> pitti: something about narrowing down the list of devices to use it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've put some packages for you to test in http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisccoulson/desktop-startup-speed/ when you get the chance
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<chrisccoulson> although, i'm not sure how much difference they'll make. they didn't seem to make that much difference on my machine, but it's hard to tell because i get a lot of variation anyway
<chrisccoulson> i've got a feeling that the gconf change makes gnome-session block for a while again, but i'm not too sure. it would be interesting to see your bootchart with those changes
<seb128> I will do that in a few
<seb128> pitti, is sound working on your dell in lucid?
<pitti> seb128: yes, very well; I'm listening to RB right now
<seb128> pitti, what profile and output do you use?
<pitti> seb128: I use the headphone jack on the side to connect to my speakers
<pitti> "profile"?
<seb128> pitti, in the gnome capplet
<seb128> I hate this thing
<seb128> like I don't know if I should use "analog stereo duplex"
<seb128> or "analog sterea output"
<pitti> tjaalton: I'm actually afraid we need the keymap for all devices which have buttons or keys (even the lid), otherwise X.org and libxklavier has an inconsistent idea of what the keyboard layout is
<seb128> or what is the difference
<pitti> tjaalton: and we certainly do need evdev itself for lid switch, power button, etc.; otherwise g-p-m and friends wouldn't ever get the X events for "power button pressed", etc.
<pitti> seb128: it says "analog stereo duplex" here; I don't think that I ever touched it
<tjaalton> pitti: ok, my lid switch only has ID_INPUT, so evdev is unloaded since it says it can't handle that
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<tjaalton> pitti: same thing with "hda digital pcbeep"
<pitti> tjaalton: hm, that sounds like a bug
<pitti> tjaalton: hm, indeed, here too
<tjaalton> pitti: but we'll not load evdev for ID_INPUT_JOYSTICK, since it causes only trouble
<pitti> tjaalton: my lid switch has x11_driver=evdev and ID_INPUT=1, no keys
<pitti> tjaalton: ah, because it doesn't have any KEY capability
<pitti> just a SW==1
<tjaalton> pitti: mine too, but evdev is unloaded
<pitti> so that should be correct
<pitti> tjaalton: right, same here apparently
<chrisccoulson> is launchpad working for anybody?
<pitti> sloooowly
<chrisccoulson> i can't access it at all :(
<chrisccoulson> i just get an oops
<chrisccoulson> ah - "The topic for #launchpad is: LP DB security updates, possible intermittent outages 11:00-11:30 UTC"
<tjaalton> pitti: ok, we'll only skip ID_INPUT_JOYSTICK, since it's what we did with hal too. hdaps devices are listed as joysticks as well, so that should probably be fixed in input_id?
<pitti> tjaalton: what is a "hdaps"?
<pitti> tjaalton: would you mind filing an udev bug report about it if it's misdetected?
<tjaalton> pitti: accelerometers on laptops
<tjaalton> detects a falling laptop :)
<pitti> aah
<tjaalton> or, in this case, returns the mouse cursor to the center of the screen when you tap your laptop
<tjaalton> :)
<pitti> it should have a SW_BRACEFORIMPACT, SW_CRASH, and SW_BROKEN then :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, looking to your changes now, do you think I should do incremental updates or all together?
<tjaalton> pitti: hehe
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - you'd need to do them all together for any benefit
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, doing that then
<and471> mpt: you in england today?
<mpt> and471, yes
<mpt> Happy snowy new year :-)
<and471> mpt: having fun in the snow :-p
<and471> mpt: hehe
<and471> mpt: we have a snow day at school today :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, your changes don't seem to make a real difference :-(
<seb128> I'm uploading the chart soon though
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it would be good to see the chart. i've got a suspicion that the gconf change blocks gconf-sanity-check from exitting, which delays gnome-session again
<chrisccoulson> but i couldn't really tell on my machine
<chrisccoulson> i need to invest in some real hardware really. virtualbox is no good for doing this type of thing :-/
<seb128> well virtualbox should work ok to tell you what block on what
<seb128> doing yet another boot to see the difference
<seb128> it's hard to measure small changes since desktop login is between 10.7s and 11.3s without changing anything
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's pretty hard. i seem to get several seconds of variation in virtualbox
<chrisccoulson> but i suppose it depends on what else i'm doing on my desktop
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-2.png
<seb128> is today's stock
<seb128> copying the updated one now
<seb128> or not, one minute, that one boot was weird
 * asac finally sponsored gnome-bluetooth merge
<seb128> asac, thanks ;-)
<asac> baptistemm: ^^
<asac> i also jumped in and fixed fontconfig build bustage last night ...
 * asac wants hugs for that ;)
<baptistemm> hmmm?
<asac> baptistemm: wasnt that your merge ;)?
<asac> long ago
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-6change.png
<baptistemm> I did a request long time ago for karmic-update
<asac> yes. that went to lucid now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-6change.png is yours
<baptistemm> ah, so it is a 2.28.x version, right ?
<seb128> or with your updates rather
<asac> i didnt see fixes for -updates
<asac> baptistemm: yes. .3
<asac> we can instantly go to .6 or whatever is latest if you want
 * seb128 hugs asac the rockstar
<seb128> thanks for fixing the fontconfig thing too
<seb128> and uploading gnome-bluetooth
<asac> hehe ... now feeling better
<baptistemm> fontconfig 2.8.0?
<asac> no
<seb128> not yet
<asac> that merge was too work intensive to get it up as an emergency fix
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - hmmm, so, it doesn't make a great deal of difference. it definately shows that gnome-session starts g-s-d much more quickly now (almost immediately), which is nice. but g-s-d still has to wait for gconfd to finish parsing the database
<seb128> right
<seb128> and seahorse seems to take the gconf start hit
<seb128> it takes almost 1 second now
<seb128> and it correspond to the gconf start
<chrisccoulson> ah yes, that might be what's doing it
<seb128> let me turn off seahorse just to see
<chrisccoulson> i'm slightly surprised that gconfd seems to sit idle for a little while though
<chrisccoulson> i think g-s-d is still blocking on gconf there though, as you can see that xrdb is spawned later on
<seb128> well it seems blocked on seahorse rather
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-7.png
<seb128> without seahorse
<seb128> it wins almost 0.5s on the compiz start
<chrisccoulson> interesting. that's quite a lot faster. is it consistently like that?
<seb128> compared to stock lucid
<seb128> I did only once without seahorse
<seb128> let me try again
<seb128> what is seahorse-daemon doing again?
<seb128> I though that was not useful by default
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-8.png
<seb128> seems consistent
<seb128> good work
<seb128> so we just have to deal with the seahorse-daemon case now
<seb128> and we win almost 0.5 seconds
<chrisccoulson> excellent. i'll take a look at seahorse-daemon next then, and see what we can optimise there
<seb128> well that thing should just not be starting by default I think
<seb128> I though we had a gconf key which made that conditional
<seb128> but it has the gconf init cost in any case with that
<seb128> which we want to avoid
<seb128> hum
<chrisccoulson> yeah, adding gconf keys for conditional starting will just add the delay back to gnome-session again
<seb128> Gnome bug #587539
<ubottu> Gnome bug 587539 in Daemon "seahorse-daemon.desktop should not contain an autostart condition by default" [Minor,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=587539
<seb128> I don't care about the nautilus thing, it's a power user case
<seb128> I'm wondering if the daemon could be started on demand rather
<seb128> it doesn't seem something which needs to be running from the start
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll have a look at that. i need to familiarise myself with what it's needed for first :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, with your changes and seahorse not blocking things + no compiz we have 8.5 seconds
<seb128> that's desktop login
<chrisccoulson> thats pretty good. it would be interesting to see the stock boot without seahorse as well i think, just to see how much seahorse influences it. when i look at the different bootcharts, i think my changes are only worth ~200ms at the moment
<seb128> I would say 300ms but right...
<seb128> we are still down to make gnome-panel and nautilus quick
<chrisccoulson> right, lunch time
<chrisccoulson> bbl
<seb128> hum lunch!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, enjoy
<seb128> pitti, ^ backlog might be interesting to read for you too
<seb128> combined with session changes to not wait we are under 8 seconds
<seb128> and nautilus start at 1.1 second
<seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-hacked.png
<seb128> just for the record
<seb128> it's chrisccoulson's changes + no compiz + no seahorse
<seb128> + session hack to not delay starts
<seb128> I don't think we can tweak much over those changes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, dropping seahorse without your changes is a no win
<coffeedude> pitti, ping.  Sent you mail re: latest likewise-open packages.  I believe the packages are ready for upload.  Just need to know what I should do next.
 * coffeedude heads for another coffee....brb
<pitti> seb128: read the backlog now, interesting!
<seb128> pitti, cool
<pitti> . o O { still three pulseaudio processes.. }
<pitti> 5 actually
<pitti> coffeedude: hey Jerry
<coffeedude> hey pitti :)  Morning
<pitti> coffeedude: nice, thanks! if that fixes the upgrade case, nothing; I'll just sponsor it to lucid
<coffeedude> pitti, perfect!
<seb128> pitti, I got some weird bootchart by dropping some extra things
<coffeedude> pitti, if I need to do anything else regarding the upload, let me know.  Otherwise, i'll just prepare to start testing alpha2 and fix anything that comes up.
<seb128> the indicator message applet and the background image
<seb128> it didn't win much time
<seb128> but cpu use was not bounded for a few seconds
<seb128> not sure what is limiting if that's not io or cpu
<seb128> ie there was some seconds not fully busy
<seb128> I would expect things to keep busy while there is work to do
<pitti> unless something is waiting for some signal or dbus activation, indeed
<pitti> coffeedude: perfect, thanks!
<seb128> maybe idle loop lead to lazy use
<seb128> rather than full cpu use
<seb128> bratsche, hey
<bratsche> Hey seb128
<seb128> bratsche, thanks for your gnome-desktop and nautilus fixes, will you send those to bugzilla too?
<bratsche> Yeah I will.  I need to test them with an unpatched gtk+ first just to make sure that they don't cause regressions without the rgba patch (I don't think they can, but just want to test before posting to bugzilla)
<bratsche> I'll do that now.
<bratsche> Yeah, it seems fine as I expected.  I'll post the patches now.
<seb128> bratsche, thanks
<seb128> I will sponsor the changes
<seb128> but I just have people rining at the bell there
<seb128> I'm away for half an, hour
<seb128> brb
<bratsche> Okay
<bratsche> Thanks!
<ArneGoetje> Riddell: what can I do for you?
<Riddell> ArneGoetje: freetype broke but I think asac fixed it
<Riddell> ?
<Riddell> fontconfig broke
<ArneGoetje> Riddell: I'm not aware of that
<asac> Riddell: i did an emergeny update yes.
<asac> defoma broke it
<Riddell> asac: see his upload 2.6.0-1ubuntu13 taken from debian https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fontconfig
<asac> huh? i uploaded it ;)
<Riddell> doh
<asac> ArneGoetje: ^^
<asac> guess that was the idea
<asac> ;)
<Riddell> yes that's what my tab completion was ment to do
<Riddell> seb128: does Gnome use debhelper 7 for packaging yet?
<asac> 2.8.0 merge should get done at some point
<asac> at best with massive cleanup and droppage of most of our conf.d tweaks
<asac> like we have a bunch of dupe entries ... some before and some after user conf
<ArneGoetje> asac: ok, so, 2.8 still needs to be done... btw, defoma is depreciated on debian. all font packages are being fixed atm.
<asac> yes
<asac> defoma wasnt my idea. ask TheMuso why he requested a sync ;)
<asac> anyway. thats probably the reason why we now dont fail if defoma isnt there
<ArneGoetje> asac: maybe he didn't know it is depreciated now?
<asac> yes. but deprecated is != removed from debian
<asac> so i dont see why not to sync it
<asac> fontconfig should go up to 2.8.0... maybe requesting a sync and then adding step by step what we want based on bugs would be the right idea to do a thorough cleanup ;)
<ArneGoetje> asac: well, we hopefully won't need it anymore in the near future
<asac> yes. and fix i uploaded basically does that: do not fail if defoma isnt there ;)
<ArneGoetje> asac: ok
<asac> which was also a debian NMU emergency before ;) ... so seems while deprecating defome debian broke it (which feels odd if they really wanted to deprecate, why do something like that?)
<ArneGoetje> asac: we do need ot keep the lcdfilter patches in fontconfig
<seb128> Riddell, no, we use cdbs
<seb128> Riddell, I don't really see a reason to use dh7
<asac> ArneGoetje: i dont know. my personal opinion is that unless someone gives real background information we shouldnt maintain that as we cannot even verify that it works or not
<ArneGoetje> asac: I asked keybuk about it
<asac> did he give background?
<asac> or just "needed"?
<ArneGoetje> asac: yes, he gave background
<asac> which is?
<asac> for proprietary apps?
<ArneGoetje> asac: it's needed for the terminal applications
<asac> which terminal application shows the regression in case we drop it?
<Riddell> seb128: it's nicer in some ways, but I'm not convinced we need yet another build system. now I have to work out how to port our .pot generation to it :(
<ArneGoetje> asac: probably gnome-terminal, maybe others too
<ArneGoetje> asac: keybuk said we want to keep the patches
<asac> i doubt gnome-terminal
<asac> keeping patches without being able to verfiy that they work doesnt make sense
<asac> we need better background
<asac> like a bug with a step by step how to reproduce the bug fixed by this
<ArneGoetje> asac: well, just remove /etc/fonts/conf.d/11-lcd-filter-lcddefault.conf and 53-monospace-lcd-filter.conf and see the difference in gnome-terminal
<asac> do you see any difference?
<ArneGoetje> asac: maybe ask keybuk about the deatils?
<asac> thats what you should do. you can also maintain those changes infinitely ;) ... i am just saying, that i wouldnt do that based on the input i got from him and you so far ;)
<asac> lcddefault isnt legacy btw
<asac> anyway. have to do something ... then call
<ArneGoetje> asac: well, whatever... I personally dont see any difference on my screen, but it may be required only for some cases... I'll ask keybuk again
<ArneGoetje> asac: when do you have some time to hand over the po2xpi stuff for langpack-o-matic to me?
<asac> yes. a bug and testcase would be good. maybe it doesnt even work anymore
<asac> ArneGoetje: what does hand over mean? i definitly should move the .xpi directories in the langpack o matic home
<asac> anything else you want?
<ArneGoetje> asac: well, shall I maintain it or not?
<asac> ArneGoetje: yes. definitly. We have a bzr branch. i would suggest to maintain it through merge requests until you feel comfortable with the code base
<ArneGoetje> asac: ok... do you have a link for me?
<asac> we can move the install to a location where you can access it, but i would prefer to see changes first getting signed off thorugh merge request
<asac> e.g. you request merge request. i sign off ... you roll out to rookery
<asac> yes
<asac> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/rosetta/po2xpi
<asac> i think not everything is committed
<asac> so better wait before you jump on it
<ArneGoetje> asac: sure, we can do that... we need a fix, the zh package split doen't work for Lucid, while it does for Karmic. I suspect the version number parsing 10.04 vs. 9.10 doesn't work like it should
<asac> but changes are not that considerable that arent committed
<asac> hmm. could be ...
<ArneGoetje> asac: I needed to ifix it in lp-o-matic too... see my latest commit
<ArneGoetje> asac: new mozilla xpi tarballs uploaded to rookery, btw: /home/arne/public_html/mozilla_xpis_3.0.16.tar.bz2 and /home/arne/public_html/mozilla_xpis_3.5.6.tar.bz2
<ArneGoetje> asac: compared to 3.0.17 and 3.5.7 the translations haven't changed btw
<ArneGoetje> asac: /home/asac/mozilla-rosetta/po2xpi/data/ doesn't have a 10.04 subdirectory and therefor no merge-hints.txt file. That's why the firefox/xulrunner translations in lucid are missing for zh-han{s|t}.
<ArneGoetje> asac: could you please add the 10.04 directory, so that I can build new -base langpacks? Thanks.
<rickspencer3> pitti, ccheney, etc... does anyone know if anyone was able to help that teacher from France who wanted to log directly into a guest session?
<rickspencer3> he had emailed ubuntu-devel-discuss
<pitti> rickspencer3: I replied to a question like that a  while ago, but I don't know when or to whom any more
<tgpraveen12> just out of curiosity what is the way to do that?
<tgpraveen12> rickspencer3: ?
<rickspencer3> tgpraveen12, they want their students to use a bootable usb stick that boots into a guest session (I think)
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> they don't boot from the USB stick, only save their docs
<tgpraveen12> rickspencer3: is there a way to set my ubuntu install to start in guest mode always?
<rickspencer3> so just want to be able to log in as guest from GDM
<rickspencer3> tgpraveen12, that's what I'm asking
<milanbv> oh, that would be an interesting feature for users-admin too
<rickspencer3> milanbv, I suspect it is simple, just some way to make Guest show up in GDM greeter
<milanbv> rickspencer3: no idea - if that's possible I can leave a field for that in our new D-Bus protocol, so that we can eventually have an option for that
<milanbv> Window has something like that
<rickspencer3> I'm guessing there is some gconf key or something, I will dig around around later
<rickspencer3> or wait for robert_ancel to get back from vacation ;)
<milanbv> mmh, I need to release this new protocol before the end of the week
<milanbv> rickspencer3: do you know when you'll look for that?
<rickspencer3> milanbv, no
<rickspencer3> sorry
<rickspencer3> a bit busy, but I suppose I could grovel through gconf-editor and see what's there
<milanbv> yeah, I'll see what I can get
<milanbv> but gconf doesn't suit very well in the system-tools-backends design, since they don't rely on a particular desktop..
<pitti> good night everyone!
<chrisccoulson> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<mpt> glatzor, hi, happy new year
<johanbr> chrisccoulson, just out of curiosity, are there any plans for tracker 0.7 in lucid?
<chrisccoulson> johanbr - yes, i think. i just haven't got round to working on it yet
<johanbr> alright, I see
<johanbr> thank you
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<jcastro> rickspencer3: are you going to oscon?
<rickspencer3> jcastro, nope
<jcastro> rickspencer3: the yorba/shotwell guys would like to have a little catchup with us sometime, do you have time?
<rickspencer3> jcastro, week after next I will
<jcastro> cool ...
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, does anyone know who Patrick Freundt is?
<chrisccoulson> he keeps sending weird e-mails to u-d-d
<seb128> no
<soren> My understatement-o-meter just went nuts. "weird" does not even begin to describe them :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't understand what his e-mails are about at all
<chrisccoulson> he likes replying to himself though
<seb128_> re
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128_
<seb128_> chrisccoulson, not sure if you got "do you want to do an update" question before disconnect
<chrisccoulson> seb128_ - i didn't
<seb128_> ok
<chrisccoulson> which update is it?
<seb128_> gnome-control-center
<seb128_> it's not trivial trivial
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do that
<seb128_> but not really hard either
<chrisccoulson> i don't like trivial things ;)
<seb128_> lol
<seb128_> excellent ;-)
<seb128_> it's all yours
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<seb128_> thank you!
<seb128_> you might need to update libgnome-desktop to build the new g-c-c
<seb128_> update = install the new libgnome-desktop-2-17
<seb128_> if you don't have it yet
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's ok. thanks
<seb128_> they didn't bump the configure requirement but I expect it's an overlook
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think that's happened before
<chrisccoulson> although, that might have been g-s-d
<chrisccoulson> with an outdated check for gnome-desktop
<seb128_> bryyce, hey
<seb128_> I don't think bug #503684 is a pygtk issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503684 in pygtk "Triple-click needed to pop up task window if task is selected once" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503684
<seb128_> rather gtk
<seb128_> the fileselector does the same in firefox for example
<bryyce> seb128, ok feel free to move it, I just moved it to the next layer down from gtg
<bryyce> seb128, is it a known regression?  If you need someone to test proposed patches I can reproduce it pretty easily
<seb128_> bryyce, "known" in the sense that I've noticed it in fileselector, I'm checking upstream now
<seb128> hey Amaranth, happy new year
<ccheney> ugh the more functions i copy out of glib/gtk the more functions they use which causes more copying, fun stuff :-\
<ccheney> iow its a lot more than just the functions we found with nm -D
<TheMuso> ccheney: I don't envy you.
<ccheney> TheMuso: i think i'm making a copy of the new glib into libsoup :)
<ccheney> hehe
<ccheney> i guess once i finish we can evaluate if it is too much crack :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-07
<nunyab> Hello, has anyone heard of a fix for the logon on loop issue, most forum discussions say it is related to desktop resolution but none of their "fixes" work for me
<nunyab> now I am getting....  Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://projects.gnome.org/gconf/ for information. (Details -  1: Failed to get connection to session: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-xV8IiXCKol: Connection refused)
<pitti> Good morning
<bryyce> heya pitti
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! How about you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad, but a little cold
<seb128> good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you today?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm ok thanks. and you?
<seb128> hey pitti!
<seb128> I'm good
<pitti> chrisccoulson: cold> get well soon then!
<seb128> not fully awake yet but after some extra coffee that will do
 * pitti shivers, temperatures below zero for two weeks aren't my definition of "comfortable"
<seb128> same here
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, sorry, i meant i was feeling cold rather than having a cold. i'm not feeling ill just yet ;)
<pitti> aah
 * pitti hands chrisccoulson a blanket
 * chrisccoulson thanks pitti
<chrisccoulson> it's quite cold at work, as most of our building is empty now, so they keep the heating off in those parts to save money
<chrisccoulson> but it makes it cold everywhere
 * baptistemm hugs chrisccoulson to heat him on
<huats> morning
<bittin_> morning
<seb128> asac, hey
<mpt> mvo, hi, can you remind me of the command to rebuild the USC database (e.g. when switching from the PPA package to software-center trunk branch)?
<seb128> asac, will you do the gnome-bluetooth 2.29 update too?
<seb128> asac, just asking before starting on it to not dup work
<mvo> mpt: if you run from trunk, just delete data/xapian/* - trunk builds a local DB
<mvo> mpt: you will need the aptdaemon from the PPA on karmic for current trunk
<mpt> mvo, I do have aptdaemon from the PPA, but after deleting data/xapian/* I have the same problem as before it: The only department that shows up is "System Packages".
<mpt> mvo, and lots of "console message: undefined @1: ReferenceError: Can't find variable: addCategory"
<mvo> mpt: rigtht, the software-center.menu file got updated, easieist is to run bzr-buildpackage and then sudo dpkg -i ../build-area/*1.1.7*.deb - or I can upload to the PPA if you prefer that
<mpt> I'll try the buildpackage thingy first
<mpt> mvo, that fails with "gpg: /tmp/debsign.l6wyJ0ec/software-center_1.1.7.dsc: clearsign failed: secret key not available"
<seb128> mpt, it's not failing
<seb128> mpt, it's just a warning saying you don't have a key to sign
<seb128> that's fine for a local build
<mvo> mpt: that is ok
<mpt> "bzr: ERROR: The build failed."
<mpt> If it's not failing, it has a funny way of showing it ;-)
<seb128> depends of what call fail
<seb128> it's not good to upload
<seb128> but it's good to locally install
<seb128> the debs should be there
<mpt> huh, so they are
<mpt> I guess that's what they call "catastrophic success"
<mvo> mpt: please let me know if it works with the new version, I leave for lunch now but will read scrollback
<mpt> mvo, "software-center depends on aptdaemon (>= 0.11+bzr322); however: Version of aptdaemon on system is 0.11+bzr319-0ubuntu1~ppa1."
<mpt> Oh, that's just because I haven't installed updates yet this morning
<mpt> never mind
<mpt> Hm, it's not good for Update Manager to bring up the "You have 1 broken package on your system! Use the 'Broken' filter to locate it." alert when Update Manager has no such thing as a "Broken" filter
<seb128> technically it's not update-manager since that comes from synaptic
<seb128> but right not good from an user view
<mpt> I guess that would disappear if/when Update Manager used aptdaemon
<seb128> yes
<mvo> hm, i fix that after lunch
 * mpt giggles in delight at the new "Games" screen
<davmor2> Just a quicky is it known that there is no evolution on todays iso
<gord> davmor2, are you sure? its not in the internet menu, its in office
<davmor2> gord: nope not in internet not in office and not in notification applet either
<davmor2> gord: also calendar applet doesn't open it and nor does typing evolution into the terminal
<seb128> Amaranth, mvo: do you plan to do a compiz upload soon?
<mvo> seb128: not currently, why? I can do one if needed?
<seb128> mvo, it needs a rebuild for libgnome-desktop soname change
<seb128> mvo, no hurry but I was pondering between doing it or wait for your next upload
<mvo> seb128: let me quickly check bzr
<seb128> mvo, there is no code change required I think, the api change is the gnome-bg api which I don't think compiz uses
<rodrigo_> how the hell do you specify a port for a server on xchat / xchat-gnome?
<mvo> seb128: nothing pending, feel free to just upload (but please keep bzr in sync) - I can also it, either way is fine for me
<rodrigo_> it doesn't like host:port
<seb128> mvo, I will do it
<james_w> rodrigo_: host/port
<seb128> mvo, speaking about keep bzr in sync you didn't for cheese ;-)
<seb128> mvo, (cost me a reject, fix, reupload round yesterday)
<rodrigo_> james_w: yay, that did it, why it doesn't use host:port ?
<james_w> because it is special
<Tm_T> xchat indeed is special
<mvo> seb128: I do not even remember touching that
<mvo> oh, right
<seb128> mvo, you sponsored a gconf key change
<seb128> mvo, anyway no worry I fixed it
<rodrigo_> yeah, indeed it's special
<seb128> I just hate when I notice that bzr out of sync because the upload got rejected
<seb128> we need better tools to warn you that what you try to build is not in sync with the archive or something ;-)
<mvo> agreed
<pitti> perhaps debuild -S could fail if DEBEMAIL =~ /ubuntu/ and there is a Vcs-Bzr:.*launchpad.net, but no .bzr?
<pitti> (it quickly gets hackish at this point, though :-( )
<seb128> mvo, do you have any clue if Amaranth is still working on the compiz cleaning?
<seb128> or splitting things we don't use in a new binary
<pitti> in general, folks should use debcheckout first nowadays
<seb128> pitti, I do use bzr pull usually
<seb128> and then do changes
<seb128> and bzr-buildpackage
<pitti> seb128: then you already know it's in bzr
<seb128> pitti, well I've checked of all the things I work on
<pitti> I mean if you want to do a drive-by fix for a random packge
<pitti> you should never start with "apt-get source", but "debcheckout"
<seb128> checked -> checkouts
<seb128> right
<seb128> in this case I did update something I had a checkout for already
<pitti> I mean "you" == "anybody", not "you" == "seb128" in this case
<seb128> so that would not prevent such issues for those cases
<pitti> no, I meant mvo should have used debcheckout
<seb128> maybe he did but forgot to push
<seb128> I did that a couple of time
<seb128> anyway that's not happening too often nowadays
<seb128> pitti, btw do you have an opinion about converting desktop components to use source in bzr in the standard location now?
<seb128> rather than debian dirs as we do
<pitti> I'm a bit torn here
<pitti> from a design POV it would certainly be nice once having the full source actually makes sense (i. e. we have upstream imports and can directly merge from upstream trunk)
<pitti> but I don't think we're quite there yet
<pitti> right now, having the full history in bzr just makes things excruciatingly slow for no real benefit
<pitti> you have to push MBs over MBs of data to launchpad to do a single quick change
<pitti> and upload bandwidth is still scarce for most people (for me, anyway)
<seb128> yeah, same here
<pitti> in theeeeeory, LP should have stacked branches
<pitti> so pushing a new fix to a new branch should be trivial
<pitti> but it just doesn't work
<seb128> I scp things on canonical servers and wget the tarball there for uploads
<pitti> and even if you can directly commit to the ~ubuntu-desktop branch, you still have to download the entire history
<seb128> I'm quite happy with what we have now so I was not pushing for change
<pitti> and the history is both big and useless, since it's tarball imports, not the real trunk
<seb128> I was just checking other people don't get blocked on a workflow they don't like because or me there
<seb128> that doesn't seem to be the case for you ;-)
<pitti> I'm quite happy with what we have right now, TBH
<seb128> ok, let's stay on that for this cycle
<seb128> we can revisit that later
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> if I do an upstream fix for gnome, I still have to get the upstream git, apply it there, and do a git format-patch, of course
<pitti> but that wouldn't be any different with having everythign in bzr
<seb128> right, everything would be great if GNOME was using the same vcs and you could cherrypick commits in one command and push those
<seb128> but since that's not the case...
<james_w> pitti: stacked branches should work. If they don't for the package branches that's a bug and I'd like to take a look at it.
<pitti> james_w: the other day I got ubiquity, did a commit, and pushed to my branch; that uploaded some 90 MB of data
<pitti> which took me some half an hour..
<james_w> ouch
<pitti> and I got that for other packages as well
<james_w> I don't suppose you can grab the ~/.bzr.log snippet for that could you?
<james_w> searching for "fetch logic.*ubiquity" should pick out relevant chunks
 * pitti gets the relevant chunk
<pitti> james_w: http://paste.ubuntu.com/352901/ is the relevant bits
<james_w> wow, not a lot of information there :-)
<james_w> thanks, I'll file a bug requesting more details be logged
<pitti> james_w: could it be an older format?
 * seb128 kicks the pc speaker
<seb128> xset -b doesn't work
<james_w> pitti: it does seem to be
<james_w> that might have something to do with it
<james_w> bug 504232
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504232 in bzr "Please log more information about remote operations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504232
<james_w> in case we need to do this again sometime :-)
<pitti> james_w: thanks; I sub'ed, and commented
<seb128> asac, hey
<asac> seb128: g-b?
<asac> if you want to do it today, go ahead
<seb128> asac, I will have a look
<seb128> asac, could you push your changes to bzr?
<seb128> asac, the bzr is outdated by several updates
<seb128> asac, you also wrongly dropped the status icon change, it's back to colored icon
<seb128> asac, or crevette did and you didn't catch the issue
<seb128> asac, don't worry I will handle the update and the icon issue, if you could just push your changes ;-)
<seb128> or did you stop using bzr for this one?
<kenvandine> is there any known problems with language-pack-en?
<kenvandine> after updating this morning my locale seems to have disappeared
<seb128> bug #504198
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504198 in eglibc "locale support broken on upgrade to latest eglibc" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504198
<kenvandine> seb128, thx :)
<seb128> you're welcome
<kenvandine> yay
<kenvandine> that fixed it :)
<seb128> good
<kenvandine> man things are unhappy when it can't set the locale :)
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<pitti> kenvandine: sudo apt-get locale-gen --purge should help
<pitti> kenvandine: (bug is known and filed)
<seb128> pitti, do you follow device-kit power upstream changes?
<seb128> pitti, do you know if the battery estimation code will be turned on before lucid?
<pitti> seb128: I didn't have a look at it recently, I'm afraid I don't know; I thought it already had code for that?
<seb128> pitti, right, the configure option is off by default though
<seb128> pitti, don't bother, I was just looking at this bug your forwarded because extra users commented saying they also have no battery estimation since karmic
<pitti> rickspencer3: good morning
<pitti> gosh, I just wasted 20 minutes debugging why my new work item tracker spits out wrong numbers, only to finally see that they are actually correct, and the current chart is wrong
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, ping
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, your latest branch doesn't have my pythondir fix, which i think was merged into trunk already
<chrisccoulson> pitti - perhaps you have not had enough coffee ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: clearly not, since I don't drink coffee :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it just shows me how urgent this work item tracker rewrite actually is
 * seb128 thinks pitti is slowly turning into a manager
<pitti> feeding my boss wrong numbers, rickspencer3 could never sleep well!
<pitti> argh! no! argh!
<pitti> :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs back seb128
 * chrisccoulson hugs seb128 and pitti
<pitti> hugfest!
 * pitti hugs chrisccoulson
 * seb128 hugs chrisccoulson
<seb128> asac, I've uploaded gnome-bluetooth 2.29.3, the icon issue is fixed in this version
<seb128> asac, let me know if you have your changes in bzr and didn't push or if you didn't use bzr
<seb128> asac, just to know if I should just copy the current version to bzr and push that or not
<asac> seb128: i can replay everything if we still want that
<asac> but we have the Distributed development import now
<asac> not sure if we really want that
<asac> do we need a special branch still?
<seb128> we discussed that before with pitti
<seb128> our upload suck basically
<seb128> and since upstream is not in bzr and full source in bzr doesn't win anything we stay on debian dir only for now
<asac> our upload?
<asac> hmm
<asac> ok
<asac> though it would help people to not forget that ;)
<seb128> it takes ages to push new version updates if you have full source
<asac> then i can replay it for you if you want
<seb128> where pushing only debian changes is quick
<asac> yeah
<seb128> well we have a vcs url in the control
<seb128> I don't really care strongly which one
<seb128> the one listed is just outdated
<seb128> either it should be dropped or updated
<seb128> I will keep debian only my the things I usually work on
<seb128> but I've no strong opinion for this one
<seb128> do whatever you find easier
<davmor2> seb128: I just been hunting down the evolution missing issue is appears that evolution-documentation-en is 2.28.1-0ubuntu2 but evo itself is 2.28.2-1ubuntu3.  If I remove the docs I can install evo
<seb128> evolution-documentation-* have been dropped in lucid
<seb128> since we have proper langpack for documentation now
<seb128> the split is of no use
<davmor2> seb128: okay so I'll check that again tomorrow then and ensure that evolution is on the cd
<seb128> it's not today?
<seb128> how can that happen if it's seeded?
<davmor2> seb128: nope
<davmor2> seb128: I'm assuming it is because e-d-en is installed
<seb128> that doesn't make any sense to me
<davmor2> seb128: evo-data-server is on but evo the app isn't
<seb128> why would -en be installed?
<seb128> it's not built in lucid
<seb128> and there is no rdepends
<seb128> davmor2, can you check with slangasek what's going on?
<davmor2> seb128: no probs
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> asac: hm, my work item tracker really gets confused about you being in both canonical-desktop-team and canonical-mobile-team :)
<davmor2> seb128: just for your info http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=1135 is evo listed in synaptic
 * asac is a multi-team bug ;)
<pitti> asac: well, not really confused, it just shows your assigned mobile specs in the desktop report
 * pitti tried to simplify the configuration by looking at LP teams and sorting reports by that
<pitti> well, I can fix that later on
<pitti> and re-add the manual spec pattern stuff
<asac> would it help to throw me out of desktop?
<asac> and using the pattern?
<pitti> asac: either
<asac> if it helps just do it. i dont get any permissions from that team i guess ;)
<pitti> well, you should stay in ~ubuntu-desktop, that's not a problem (and it would be bad to remove you from there); it's just the canonical-desktop-team thing that causes some duplication
<pitti> asac: no permissions, just bug spam :)
<pitti> asac: there, less bug spam for you now
<asac> heh. no that i notice the difference ;)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine seb128 what's the scoopage with the Dx release today?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, pretty big
<kenvandine> mostly because of timing and depends
<kenvandine> everything is blocked by dbusmenu, which is waiting on a merge
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, thanks for the update, is it still on track for today?
<kenvandine> yeah, i am pretty beat so if things run to late i will just finish them in the morning
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> one of them will be a new package and need sponsoring too
 * kenvandine hugs seb128
<kenvandine> i don't think any of them will be a ton of work for me, but it is waiting for them to start falling into place
<seb128> oh, which one?
<kenvandine> indicator-me
<seb128> I can help on updates, I'm almost done with GNOME catching up now
<kenvandine> seb128, nah... they won't be hard
<kenvandine> it is mostly waiting for tedg to do his thing
<seb128> so let me know if you need me to review, sponsor or update anything
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> np
<dobey> pitti: hmm
<seb128> kenvandine, does the indicator-me change require gnome-panel config change on upgrade?
<seb128> or is that transparent?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> transparent
<kenvandine> at least i am pretty sure
<kenvandine> tedg, can you confirm?
<kenvandine> it should hang off the indicator applet
<tedg> seb128: kenvandine: transparent.
<seb128> ok good
<kenvandine> great
 * kenvandine waits for tedg to do his "thing" :)
<seb128> go ted go
<jcastro> hey, someone fixed the rb icon!
<seb128> jcastro, I did
<jcastro> <3
<seb128> that's for some value of fixed though
 * pitti sends a â¥ to seb128, too
<seb128> I changed the icon to use the standard rhythmbox one
<jcastro> oh, so you hid it. :D
<seb128> set_icon is broken so it will not change to the playing one on play but that's an indicator bug
<seb128> but at least it's better than a broken icon
 * seb128 hugs pitti and jcastro
<jcastro> he's fixing it today for real I though
<seb128> let's see
<seb128> the bug is staying ignored in launchpad for a while now
<jcastro> it's ted appreciation day
<seb128> ;-)
<jcastro> seb128: any idea on the closing tomboy window/quits tomboy instead bug?
<seb128> We all appreciate ted, but we also know how busy he can be ;-)
<seb128> jcastro, I didn't look at this one
<jcastro> unless that's on purpose
<jcastro> I don't know if closing an app is supposed to return it to the app indicator area or close it close it.
<seb128> I don't think anybody ever wrote a clear policy about that
<seb128> rhythmbox has a gconf key for it after year of discussion
<jcastro> hah, great
<kenvandine> jcastro, there is a bug about that
<pitti> coffeedude: hm, did you remove your LP account again, or is LP just going mad? (just got cron mail about the work item tracker complaining about the invalid account)
<kenvandine> jcastro, bug 503037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503037 in tomboy "Closing tomboy window quits tomboy (when using libappindicator)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503037
<jcastro> kenvandine: yeah, the question is, is that on purpose?
<jcastro> ie. are apps that go into app-indicators supposed to act normal or minimize to that area?
<kenvandine> should act the same as before
<kenvandine> which was to not close
<kenvandine> afaik
 * kenvandine confirms
<coffeedude> pitti, haven't done anything to my account.
<coffeedude> I changed the contact email addr for the likewise-open tree to point to a moderated ml.  But nothing should be bouncing.
<pitti> coffeedude: ok, thanks; I guess it was just a glitch then
<kenvandine> jcastro, i confirmed, closing the search window doesn't quit tomboy in karmic
<kenvandine> but it does when using indicator application
<kenvandine> i suspect there is some check somewhere to see if the status icon exists, and if it does don't exit
<coffeedude> pitti, was it a mail bounce?  Or saying that or coffeedude.jerry is an invalid user?
<pitti> coffeedude: the latter
<coffeedude> pitti, that's log to be a glitch. I'm logged into LP right now.
<pitti> coffeedude: right, nevermind for now; if it happens again, I'll investigate it
<jcastro> kenvandine: there's a bp for design to clarify behavior for app-indicator apps.
<coffeedude> pitti, ACK.
<kenvandine> jcastro, humm... well it doesn't happen when any window is closed
<kenvandine> on the search window
<kenvandine> closing notes doesn't do it
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> but hit X on rhythmbox, it doesn't quit
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> some apps are designed to work that way
<kenvandine> right or wrong :)
<dobey> pitti: can you clarify why the startup issues with the applet are?
<jcastro> yeah, I am just saying, we need to figure out which apps are supposed to do what
<kenvandine> jcastro, but that would mean closing notes should quit tomboy too
<kenvandine> which is weird
<kenvandine> and why quit the app when you close the search dialog
<kenvandine> which would close all the notes you have open
<jcastro> I'm not the one supposed to think of solutions, just point out that kind of stuff.
<pitti> dobey: it's about the two work items of your's on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed
<jcastro> :p
<kenvandine> the current behavior driving me nuts
<pitti> dobey: ISTR that the plan was to drop the applet?
<kenvandine> everytime i search for a note, i end up killing the 10+ notes i have open
<dobey> pitti: i didn't know i had work items on there :)
<dobey> pitti: the plan is to drop the applet, yes
<kenvandine> dobey, statik said it would probably not make it for a2, but would email you :)
<dobey> the new ui is definitely not going to be in a2
<kenvandine> basically we aren't expecting anything from you guys until a3
<kenvandine> sorry pitti :)
<pitti> kenvandine: what about?
<kenvandine> not losing the applet by a2
<pitti> oh, I'm not at all concerned about that for a2
<kenvandine> i know you were hoping for that
<kenvandine> good
<pitti> beta-1 would be nice, though
<pitti> I just trawled through the startup-speed list some days ago and was curious
<dobey> well, feature freeze is in a month
<pitti> sounds perfect
<dobey> so i hope i can have it done by then
<dobey> should do anyway :)
<dobey> and i'll be at the platform sprint
<seb128> pitti, I will probably not done the f-spot change for editing in view mode for next week
<pitti> seb128: we can move it to a3 easily
<seb128> pitti, upstream didn't land that to 0.6x that we use but is doing some refactoring while adding that to their trunk now
<seb128> the thing is work in progress
<seb128> and there is a new GNOME on monday
<pitti> seb128: the main bits why this spec was a2 was pitivi, gbrainy, dropping gimp, etc.
<seb128> I doubt I will manage to work on that by next week
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I still have pitive mirs, etc on my list
<pitti> seb128: these are all done :)
<seb128> pitti, well I still need mir for the extra build-depends no?
<seb128> pitti, or you did that as well?
<pitti> seb128: I'll move the fspot one over to a3 later (I don't want to touch it right now, I just produced an up to date DB which I need for testing and comparing)
<pitti> seb128: yep, I did
<seb128> pitti, oh you rock
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> these became victims of my "get rid of my a2 work items, damnit" sprint :)
<seb128> sorry I've not been really active on that this week, took me the week to catch up on GNOME updates, gnome-desktop soname transition, etc
<seb128> I wanted that done before the alpha
<pitti> seb128: no worries; I see lucid-chagnes is full of seb128 goodness
<seb128> ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti 
<seb128> on that brb
<seb128> rebooting to try the gdm update
<seb128> I'm done with my list of updates then
<seb128> I will have a look to the indicators next
<seb128> re
<seb128> using a dock station and an external screen is a fail often
<seb128> ie suspend while using the docked screen, resume and you get no screen
<seb128> and g-s-d tend to crash often
<seb128> after what you can't use the magic key to change screen settings
<baptistemm> anyone is aware of an issue, that let a black screen at start without no gdm, not alt+F? running to switch VT, I thought it could be an issue with fb (seen in a bug reported) so I blacklisted vga16fb but it didn't fix my issue.
<seb128> gdm crashes due to a locale issue
<seb128> you can sudo locale-gen --purge to fix it
<seb128> baptistemm, I assume it's the same issue
<baptistemm> seb128, okay Thx a lot for the tip, I'll try
<seb128> tedg, is there a way to disable the user switching in the indicator menu which is in the corner?
<tedg> seb128: I thought we had one, you should be able to tell ConsoleKit that you can't user switch.  But I think I checked and I couldn't figure out how to make it work.
<seb128> tedg, you don't respect /desktop/gnome/lockdown/disable_user_switching then?
<seb128> tedg, would it be hard to do?
<tedg> seb128: No, I don't think we do.  It shouldn't be too hard to do.
<seb128> ok thanks
<rickspencer3> pitti, seb128, kenvandine, ccheney, bryyce, TheMuso, etc...
<rickspencer3> everyone is prepared for the distro sprint, right?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i will be today... i got distracted with all the family stuff
<seb128> rickspencer3, define prepared? I didn't know we had to prepare anything for it
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, ^
<seb128> I've ideas of what I want to work on yes
<kenvandine> i'll make sure i am today
<seb128> but that's about it
<rickspencer3> seb128, like, know when it is, booked or booking travel, etc...
<seb128> oh, that, sorry
<seb128> yes
<rickspencer3> I kind of lost track of it, and am worried that I didn't get everyone to dial in
<seb128> you can check the list on the wiki probably
<seb128> people are supposed to add details
<seb128> I added my flight info before vac
<rickspencer3> I recall an email was sent, but I feel that I kind of dropped the ball making sure all the "i";s were dotted
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: yes, ticket is issued
<pitti> rickspencer3: travel wise, yes, didn't plan a schedule yet
<rickspencer3> pitti, you slacker!
 * rickspencer3 makes review notes, sprint schedule was not ready one month in advanced
<pitti> rickspencer3: hey, I'm busy with making you be able to sleep again :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> oops, gotta do a call
<rickspencer3> sorry
<pitti> rickspencer3: oh, you mean *this* year's sprint? :-)
 * ccheney is going to be pushing OOo 3.2.0~rc1-1 into lucid this afternoon, unless there are objections
<seb128> I'm off for some sport, be back in 2 hours
<seb128> see you later
<Ash1> how do i disable the usb single port
<vish> mpt: hi...  could you decide on Bug #194472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194472 in hundredpapercuts "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194472
<vish> mathiaz wanted someone to mention if the change to default is desired
<Ash1> how do i disable the usb single port
<Ash1> how do i disable the usb single port
<vish> !topic | Ash1
<ubottu> Ash1: Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<vish> Ash1: #ubuntu is for support
<rickspencer3> pitti, I hate to bug you about this, but I don;t have access to my previous emails atm
<rickspencer3> was this the list of the draft a3 plan:
<rickspencer3> <rickspencer3> sure
<rickspencer3>  'sup?
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> http://www.piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha3/report.html
<Ash1> i'm asking about ubuntu desktop machine
<djsiegel2> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> djsiegel, yo
<djsiegel> kenvandine: https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/lucid-round-4
<vish> Ash1: this is channel is regarding development... for help kindly join #ubuntu
<djsiegel> can you get some people excited about those empathy paper cuts?
<djsiegel> who can I talk to about them?
<kenvandine> djsiegel, wow... 10
<vish> djsiegel: cassidy :)
<djsiegel> cassidy?
<djsiegel> hey cassidy, look at these lovely empathy paper cuts: https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/lucid-round-4
<kenvandine> djsiegel, bug 503052
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 503052 in hundredpapercuts "Buddy List is not shown on launch when messaging menu is present" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/503052
<djsiegel> yes?
<kenvandine> djsiegel, do you agree with that?
<djsiegel> Yes I filed it.
<kenvandine> i like it this way :)
<kenvandine> ok...
<kenvandine> i think it has the same behavior with the status icon
<djsiegel> human beings will launch empathy and go... "huh?"
<kenvandine> so not just the messaging menu
<djsiegel> same with evolution
<kenvandine> and rhythmbox
<djsiegel> oh I see
<djsiegel> right
<kenvandine> they start in the last state
<djsiegel> can we distinguish how it was launched?
<kenvandine> no idea
<djsiegel> I think we should err on the side of understandability
<kenvandine> but if the window was hidden on quit then it starts hidden
<kenvandine> yeah
<djsiegel> when I launch empathy from docky or the apps menu
<kenvandine> it can be confusing
<djsiegel> and no window is shown
<djsiegel> it's really bad
<kenvandine> but... when it starts in your session for example
<kenvandine> i love that it starts hidden
<djsiegel> hmm
<kenvandine> same for tomboy actually... right?
<djsiegel> not sure about tomboy
<kenvandine> djsiegel, why not??? consistent behavior :)
 * kenvandine ducks
<djsiegel> because it's really confusing for normal people
<djsiegel> consistent confusion is not good because it's consistent
<kenvandine> yeah... but why should tomboy be different?
<djsiegel> hehe
<djsiegel> I am not talking about tomboy right now
<djsiegel> this is the empathy paper jam
<kenvandine> yeah... i know
<kenvandine> :)
<djsiegel> so, when would we want empathy to start hidden?
<kenvandine> i think there should be bugs for all the apps that behave this way
<djsiegel> (1) Session, (2) status menu
<kenvandine> i think if it starts in your session it should
<djsiegel> yeah
<kenvandine> but by clicking a launcher open the contacts
<kenvandine> not sure how to tell the difference
<djsiegel> yeah, including when launched from the messaging menu
<kenvandine> but i bet we can tell
<djsiegel> with a flag>
<kenvandine> yeah... it is just a launcher
<djsiegel> --start-minimized
<kenvandine> hack
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i think there should be some property on the window or something
<djsiegel> so, we have two things to weigh against each other
<djsiegel> (1) current behavior of not showing the buddy list when you go online via the status menu or when empathy starts with your session
<djsiegel> (2) confused users who launch empathy by other means and see no window open
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - to check if an application was started from the session manager or not, just look for the DESKTOP_AUTOSTART_ID in the environment
<chrisccoulson> gnome-session sets that on autostart apps
<kenvandine> great
<chrisccoulson> if it's not there, then it was started manually
<kenvandine> djsiegel, so we could easily just check that and if it is set hide it :)
<kenvandine> otherwise not hide
<chrisccoulson> or DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID, i will check just to make sure :)
<kenvandine> all though not sure how upstream feels about that
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson: thx
<kenvandine> djsiegel, upstream does the start in previous state stuff...
<djsiegel> hmm
<kenvandine> cassidy: opinions?
<kenvandine> djsiegel, we would need to ignore the previous state
<kenvandine> which i am fine with
<djsiegel> yeah
<djsiegel> I mean, sometimes I will leave empathy window hidden, then use my computer a couple days later and scratch my head when I launch empathy and see no buddy list
<kenvandine> :)
<djsiegel> if it happens to me, I imagine it happens to many people
<kenvandine> we already ignore that behavior if you click on it in the indicator
<djsiegel> especially anyone who wouldn't think it terms of stored previous state affecting the window visibility across restarts
<kenvandine> we force it to raise instead of toggle
<kenvandine> which upsets some people
<kenvandine> yeah
<djsiegel> who can I chat with this about upstream?
<djsiegel> I mean, I guess all we would really need to do is add some mechanism to just detect the "empathy was launched from empathy.desktop"
<djsiegel> keep existing confusing behavior, unless the user clicked a launcher in their session
<djsiegel> then force show the buddy list
<kenvandine> well we can detect it wasn't started by the session
<kenvandine> by checking env
<djsiegel> I would not worry about that case
<djsiegel> because the user didn't initiate anything
<djsiegel> we just need to fix one case for this paper cut
<djsiegel> (1) user clicks on empathy (2) nothing happens
<kenvandine> yeah
<djsiegel> (as far as the user sees)
<kenvandine> so we check to see if we were started with the session, and if not raise the contacts list
<kenvandine> otherwise (1) do what we do now (2) start hidden
<djsiegel> hmm
<djsiegel> so, we don't want to always show
<djsiegel> even if not started with session
<djsiegel> in the case where I set my status to available?
<djsiegel> or does that just trigger telepathy and not empathy?
<djsiegel> yeah, I suppose if (DESKTOP_AUTOSTART_ID) start hidden; else start_visible
<djsiegel> that could do it
<djsiegel> I will post something upstream
<djsiegel> on the bug
<djsiegel> oh there isn't an upstream bug
<kenvandine> i'll gladly create the patch
<kenvandine> djsiegel, can you do the upstream bug?
<djsiegel> ok, so this is not caused by the Messaging menu per se
<djsiegel> I will do the upstream bug thing
<kenvandine> yeah, we didn't change any of that behavior
<kenvandine> just the toggle
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - as an example, nautilus checks DESKTOP_AUTOSTART_ID to work out if it was autostarted by gnome-session, for similar reasons
<kenvandine> djsiegel, what's your opinion on toggle on click as opposed to raise on click?
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson: is that just a bool?
<djsiegel> kenvandine -- in the m.m.?
<djsiegel> toggle seems really weird there
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - no, it's a unique sequence of characters. but you just need to check if it exists or not
<kenvandine> djsiegel, same for the status icon, if you click it we force it to raise
<kenvandine> but upstream has it toggle
<kenvandine> to me it seems weird to toggle, if i click it... i want it :)
<kenvandine> not everyone agrees
<djsiegel> I think it should do if (empathy is not focused) raise; else hide
<kenvandine> especially when closing the window doesn't exit
<kenvandine> djsiegel, so you thing toggle?
<djsiegel> yeah
<djsiegel> it doesn't seem to hurt
<kenvandine> you and mpt should have a death match over this :)
<djsiegel> I mean, we don't really show the icon
<djsiegel> so why bother?
<kenvandine> to raise it?
<djsiegel> we use the messaging menu
<djsiegel> right?
<djsiegel> we don't show empathy's status icon
<kenvandine> yeah... it is the same code path
<djsiegel> so why bother patching this against upstream?
<kenvandine> it is in empathy not the indicator
<kenvandine> the indicator doesn't decide that
<kenvandine> i wish it did :)
<djsiegel> By default, ubuntu users are not exposed to this empathy status icon, so I don't see the point of spending our time on it, is what I mean.
<kenvandine> djsiegel, no... i am talking about in the indicator
<djsiegel> oh, ok
<kenvandine> if you click on empathy in the indicator
<kenvandine> it raises
<djsiegel> yeah
<kenvandine> not toggles
<djsiegel> right
<djsiegel> that is right, I agree
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> good
<kenvandine> it is the same code path, so changing that also changed it for the status icon
<kenvandine> which seems fine to me
<djsiegel> menu items shouldn't have toggle behavior  like that
<djsiegel> yeah
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> it wasn't important
<kenvandine> i just wanted your opinion
<djsiegel> cool
<kenvandine> that is the behavior we have now
<kenvandine> so no action :)
<djsiegel> who is the omgubuntu guy? what's his nick?
<djsiegel> I am wondering if he wants to work on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/392488
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392488 in hundredpapercuts "empathy needs an Ubuntu adium theme" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<kenvandine> no idea
<jcastro> I thought we had copyright issues with the existing adium theme adaptation thing?
<kenvandine> djsiegel, most or all of the existing adium themes i found have copyright's missing and no licenses
<kenvandine> i contact a couple people to change that and got no where
<kenvandine> i wanted an adium theme in karmic by default
<bjf> bryyce, bug 494627
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494627 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "nv driver crashing with segmentation fault in libpthread.so.0" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494627
<djsiegel> kenvandine, ok
<djsiegel> I will try to chase down renkoo
<bjf> bryyce, I just tried todays live-cd image and I'm seeing the colormap is all wonky issue referred to in the bug
<kenvandine> djsiegel, is renkop your favorite?
<djsiegel> yeah, it seems pretty unanimous too
<tgpraveen> djsiegel: the prob with renkoo is that it is not suited for multiuser chat like irc etc
<tgpraveen> and currently empathy uses the same theme for both single and multi user chat
<tgpraveen> a bug for separate themes for separate modes has been requested upstream (by me only iirc)
<kenvandine> kwwii had based one off a simpler one
<kenvandine> oh renkoo uses the left right side images
<kenvandine> which makes sense for one on one chats
<djsiegel> what version of webkit will empathy use in lucid?
<djsiegel> kenvandine: ^
<kenvandine> dunno
<djsiegel> can you give me a bottom bound>?
<kenvandine> we have 1.1.17
<kenvandine> what do you need?
<djsiegel> I am chatting with the guy who made renkoo
<djsiegel> he's interested in helping out
<kenvandine> cool
<djsiegel> what license do we need?
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i think anything we can freely distribute
<kenvandine> one of the CC ones maybe?
<kenvandine> or even GPL
<kenvandine> kwwii has opinions
<djsiegel> he says it's BSD and MIT
<djsiegel> so we can do whatever we want with renkoo
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> that should be fine
<kenvandine> finally a adium theme that has a license!
<kenvandine> everything kwwii suggested had none
<kenvandine> djsiegel, the javascript isn't covered by that license
<kenvandine> The fading javascript is not covered in this license. The code is fadomatic and is covered under its own license as set by its author.
<kenvandine> so maybe not all of the js
<kenvandine> that is from the LICENSE file
<djsiegel> ok, i will ask
<djsiegel> I asked him to join here
<djsiegel> his name is torrey
<djsiegel> not sure of his nick
<djsiegel> kenvandine: itorrey is our guy
<itorrey> hello :)
<djsiegel> itorrey: is there anything we can do about the fader js? like replace it with something free?
<djsiegel> let me google fadomatic
<itorrey> We have a few options. We can pull in dojo's fade code
<kenvandine> hi itorrey
<djsiegel> ok, fadomatic author is fadomatic@chimpen.com
<itorrey> I work at SitePen and we create the dojo toolkit and we're currently in the process of a major overhaul on the UI and stuff for that website
<itorrey> and dojo is MIT/BSD
<itorrey> But I think that if the version of webkit you use supports the css animations we may be able to easily write some small JS that toggles the CSS transition for opacity
<kenvandine> cool
<djsiegel> itorrey kenvandine, that sounds like a better plan than using fadomatic, but I did email the author anyway
<djsiegel> wouldn't hurt to have more free code in the world! :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> yeah
<itorrey> I can try a few ways and see what one works the best
<kenvandine> itorrey, great
<kenvandine> we appreciate it
<itorrey> I'm well versed in licensing in open source as well so no worries there :)
<djsiegel> itorrey: awesome, I will ask some of our artwork guys to think of some ubuntu-specific changes like new hex color values
<kenvandine> djsiegel, talk to kwwii, he already did some of that for another theme
<kenvandine> that didn't have a license
<djsiegel> kenvandine: ok
<kenvandine> so we never did anythign
<djsiegel> itorrey, kenvandine, all that's left to do is check IRC conflicts...
<djsiegel> itorrey: Empathy also does IRC, and kenvandine thinks renkoo may not work well for irc
<itorrey> Does Empathy do IRC as well or does anothe program handle that but uses the same themes?
<djsiegel> if it uses alternating buddy images
<itorrey> ah hehe
<kenvandine> tgpraveen, thought that :)
<kenvandine> i am not sure
<kenvandine> itorrey, it does use the same theme
<kenvandine> i just tested it
<djsiegel> it would not be the end of the world if we disable themes for IRC...
<kenvandine> and the buddy icons are all on the same side
<djsiegel> oh, that seems like it will work then?
<kenvandine> yeah
<djsiegel> (I am still using pidgin for IRC anyway)
<itorrey> What was the concern about Renkoo in Empathy?
<djsiegel> itorrey: (1) licensing (2) how renkoo looks in an IRC conversation
<djsiegel> that's it I believe
<itorrey> Curious what the concerns were with #2
<djsiegel> kenvandine: can elaborate -- he just thought the positioning of buddy images wouldn't work or something
<itorrey> Ah
<kenvandine> djsiegel, that was just a hunch
<kenvandine> tgpraveen, was the one that mentioned it
<itorrey> On os x there's a bubble theme for Colloquy that's pretty similar that I use for IRC
<kenvandine> <tgpraveen> djsiegel: the prob with renkoo is that it is not suited for multiuser chat like irc etc
<kenvandine>  and currently empathy uses the same theme for both single and multi user chat
<kenvandine>  a bug for separate themes for separate modes has been requested upstream (by me only iirc)
<kenvandine> it seems fine to me though
<itorrey> Ok cool
<tgpraveen> well in a irc conversation with many people around like in this one and lots of messages being said constantly
<kenvandine> pitti, how do you test jockey?
<kenvandine> is there  a way to make jockey pretend to find a driver and install it?
<tgpraveen> at that time renkoo would not be pleasant to use because of fading and using lot of space for the message,etc
<kenvandine> tgpraveen, so just the wasted space between messages?
<djsiegel> yeah, I think we should leave IRC "unthemed"
<tgpraveen> kenvandine: and the fade using a lot of time (for each msg so adds up to a delay each time)
<djsiegel> but again, think of the audience here
<kenvandine> the fade seems real fast
<tgpraveen> djsiegel: I agree. though for prettiness
<djsiegel> Who uses Empathy for IRC?
<kenvandine> djsiegel, not me :)
<tgpraveen> there could be some themes that work for irc
<djsiegel> Hackers, or novice users looking for help in #ubuntu ?
<kenvandine> although it is getting better
<kenvandine> tgpraveen, i would be in favor of disabling adium themes for irc
<kenvandine> there must be a way
<djsiegel> right, I just mean, renkoo could be a good IRC theme for Empathy IRC users
<tgpraveen> djsiegel: well on ubuntu it is the default irc client so it can't be ignored though hardly
<kenvandine> djsiegel, true
 * vish wishes kenvandine fixes the user list in xchat-gnome .. to finally switch from xhcat ;)
<djsiegel> yeah
<tgpraveen> anyone with some technical skils uses it
<kenvandine> vish, hehe :)
<djsiegel> I don't
<djsiegel> tgpraveen: I use pidgin
<djsiegel> heavy users tend to use xchat
<djsiegel> irssi
<tgpraveen> I too use pidgin
<djsiegel> I just think that Empathy IRC users may be "light" IRC users
<tgpraveen> one day I will use empathy (hopefully ;-) )
<djsiegel> even 1-time users
<kenvandine> we could speed the fade up
<djsiegel> and therefore, renkoo might be good for them
<djsiegel> kenvandine: let itorrey be in charge of that
<djsiegel> he's the upstream here :)
<itorrey> anybody that uses a tool for extended periods of time will generally customize it to fit their need. If renkoo is too slow for them then they'lll switch the theme. And it is only likely to be hardcore users that would care to switch it
<djsiegel> he created a very nice, subtle, successful theme -- let's not make ad hoc changes to please Empathy IRC users lol
<tgpraveen> djsiegel: well in time for lucid empathy should be as good as pidgin for irc
<tgpraveen> many of the bugs have already been fixed in muc chats
<djsiegel> cool
<kenvandine> djsiegel, i would be in favor or renkoo, or a varient of renkoo being the default
<tgpraveen> I still think for irc no theme would be best. though for 1-1 chat and also chats like 3-4 persons etc might be best with renkoo
<kenvandine> make the colors "human" :)
<istaz> ideally we should have a way to set different theme for muc and one to one chat
 * tgpraveen was afraid of that :-(
<djsiegel> kenvandine: awesome, so itorrey will help sort out the fade without fadomatic, then will you package it?
<djsiegel> istaz: sounds perfectly reasonable and not hard to do
<djsiegel> but not necessary
<kenvandine> djsiegel, yup
<itorrey> And I'll also see about using the webkit gradients rather than a table full of images
<istaz> or have Muc channel handled by a different programm/widget all toegether
<djsiegel> awesome, this will be an awesome fix for lucid!
<istaz> djsiegel: patch welcome ;)
<djsiegel> istaz: I set up my empathy folder in ~/src just three days ago :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, that's it
<djsiegel> I plan to get hacking
<rickspencer3> pitti, can you generate it?
<itorrey> Is there a version of Ubuntu and Empathy I should run off of?
<kenvandine> itorrey, ping me and i can get it packaged
<rickspencer3> when you get a chance?
<kenvandine> itorrey, lucid if you can :)
<kenvandine> which is in alpha
<pitti> kenvandine: yes, there is; copy http://paste.ubuntu.com/353094/ to /usr/share/jockey/modaliases/local
<pitti> rickspencer3: like, refresh?
<istaz> I don't know what are cassidy actual plans for MUC in 2.30
<istaz> the roadmap don't say much
<kenvandine> pitti, thx
<cassidy> istaz, what's the question? :)
<kenvandine> hey cassidy!
<cassidy> hi !
<istaz> cassidy: how we could improve the irc experience in empathy
<istaz> cassidy: and if they are plan to have no theme or a different theme for MUC
<cassidy> short term plan is to continue to improve the current UI (see the "multi user chat" bugs)
<cassidy> longer term plan is to eventually create a dedicated app for muc (ala xchat-gnome)
<cassidy> istaz, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=601176
<ubottu> Gnome bug 601176 in Chat themes "have different themes for MUC, single user chat and log viewer" [Enhancement,New]
<cassidy> not planned for 2.30 but a patch would be welcome :)
<istaz> cassidy: yeah tgpraveen mentionner reporting it
<cassidy> see the roadmap for muc related changes planned for 2.30 : http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/Roadmap
<istaz> djsiegel: if you are interested in making you first contribution in empathy ^ ;)
<djsiegel> istaz: I will probably work on paper cuts :)
<istaz> djsiegel: ok
<istaz> djsiegel: we have a #empathy channel on Gimpnet if you need help getting started
<djsiegel> ok, thanks!
<cassidy> djsiegel, please be sure that there is an upstream confirmed bug before starting to work on something
<djsiegel> cassidy: ok :(
<djsiegel> itorrey: http://twitter.com/davidsiegel/status/7490555739
<cassidy> djsiegel, once you have open a bug just ping me and I'll look at it soonish :)
<istaz> djsiegel: just transfer the bug you find on launchpad to to the gnome bugzilla and ping cassidy
<cassidy> but I prefer to have the bug confirmed to avoid to do useless work
<djsiegel> cassidy: can you please skim: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/lucid-round-4
<cassidy> I can take a quick look
<istaz> cassidy: would you mean if I marked what bugs are already fixed in the roadmap?
<cassidy> istaz, they are
<cassidy> but the default theme don't change them
<cassidy> show
<istaz> ah
<istaz> cassidy: what theme do you use?
<itorrey> Downloading Lucid now and will take a look over things this evening (I'm on Seattle time)
<cassidy> istaz, "classic" (which is fugly)
<istaz> :/
<djsiegel> itorrey: author of Fadomatic says he's flattered and can't believe anyone is still using that script, and we can pick any license we want and he will apply it
<djsiegel> haha
<itorrey> Ok nice, I'll try fadomatic vs dojo vs css transitions and see what one is best
<djsiegel> itorrey: which license should I ask him to apply? (just in case you use it)
<djsiegel> we would prefer not to ship anything large like a whole js framework
<itorrey> I dual license everything under the BSD and MIT licenses
<djsiegel> we have very stringent space requirements on the CD
<itorrey> Yeah if we used dojo it'd be like 20k
<djsiegel> ok, cool
<itorrey> we'd just use the little bit we need
<itorrey> gotta go get lunch, back in a bit
<djsiegel> peace
<istaz> cassidy: you are  right it's ugly
<cassidy> fredp, promise me to fix https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=590421
<ubottu> Gnome bug 590421 in live.gnome.org "class="strike" not implemented by some themes" [Major,New]
<istaz> ah thanks for liking I was just about to search for one
<pitti> rickspencer3: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid-alpha3/report.html is updated
<istaz> *linking
<djsiegel> kenvandine tedg, I've been really confused that recently signed-on buddies show up in the messaging menu
<kenvandine> djsiegel, only for a few seconds
<kenvandine> with no time
<kenvandine> that is part of the spec
<djsiegel> I only just realized why they were there -- the whole time I thought it was a bug
<djsiegel> and it does show a time
<kenvandine> mine doesn't
<djsiegel> hmm
<kenvandine> it should only show a time if there is a message
<tedg> djsiegel: Yeah, they're distinguished in the menu by not having a time.  But, they show up there for a limited time.  The goal is to have a quick way to respond to someone you just noticed logged in.
<djsiegel> yeah I understand the rationale
<djsiegel> when I hear it
<djsiegel> but we don't print the rationale in a label in the menu :)
<tedg> We do, it's just in a *very* small font :)
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<cassidy> djsiegel, I commented https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/502999
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502999 in hundredpapercuts "The microphone and webcam icons displayed in the buddy list need improvement" [Low,Triaged]
<pitti> good night everyone
<djsiegel> cassidy: ah, I see
<djsiegel> well, you should not put something that looks like a button on every buddy in the list
<djsiegel> put the buttons in one spot
<djsiegel> can you imagine if every song in Rhythmbox had its own play, pause, stop button on every row?
<cassidy> kenvandine,  FYI I started to work on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=599158 this afternoon. Once it's fixed it should be doable to re-implement the libindicate badger as an Approver
<ubottu> Gnome bug 599158 in General "Contact list and status icon should be an Approver" [Enhancement,New]
<djsiegel> it would look like junk
<cassidy> that's not the same
<djsiegel> not exactly the same
<cassidy> this icon has 2 purposes
<djsiegel> but the point is, this is a list of buddy names
<cassidy> a) let you know that you can call the contact
<istaz> djsiegel: rythmbox doesn't allow to play more than one song at the same time ;)
<cassidy> b) be able to quickly click it (most user don't understand right click)
<djsiegel> adding controls inside each element in the list is really crowded
<istaz> the point is to quickly show you which contact you can call
<cassidy> s/click/call
<djsiegel> istaz: no, that's not the point
<cassidy> it is
<djsiegel> the point is to show you capabilities, and it's being used as a click target
<kenvandine> cassidy, good... maybe that explains why i was getting grief
<djsiegel> I agree the point should be to show who you can call
<kenvandine> i had success as an observer
<djsiegel> I don't agree it should be a button
<djsiegel> I think it would be nice to maybe do this:
<cassidy> kenvandine, once it's done, I'll take a look at your code if you want (ping me in a week or so)
<djsiegel> I click on a contact, and the item expands
<kenvandine> cassidy, sure
<djsiegel> to show Call, Chat buttons
<cassidy> djsiegel, that's the behaviour in master
<djsiegel> what is "that"?
<cassidy> djsiegel, see http://people.collabora.co.uk/~cassidy/shot.jpg
<djsiegel> yeah I see
<djsiegel> I was suggesting something else
<djsiegel> like, I click on your name to highlight it
<djsiegel>  /then/ it shows me buttons labeled "call" or "chat"
<kenvandine> djsiegel, in place?
<djsiegel> right below, in line -- not a context menu
<istaz> djsiegel: you mean only display the icon when the contact is selected?
<cassidy> that's not really GNOMEish
<djsiegel> well, GNOME hasn;t had this use case before
<djsiegel> and using a context menu is the lazy solution
<kenvandine> cassidy, so? nothing wrong with challenging the norm :)
<djsiegel> nothing wrong with being lazy
<djsiegel> it's just the tool people grab first, and it leads to lots of menus that aren;t fun to use
<istaz> cassidy: why not show the full contextual menu when clicking on these button actually?
<djsiegel> you might have a dedicated buttons in a toolbar?
<itorrey> By default it could simply show the icons on hover and have the option to always show them in a pref pane
<cassidy> kenvandine, sure, but as a GNOME app we try to fit well iin the GNOME desktop and offer a coherent user experience
<kenvandine> understand
<djsiegel> with a phone, video, and chat buttons in the toolbar that enable/disable according to the selected contact
<cassidy> istaz, maybe
<istaz> cassidy: or at least have the share desktop and file transfer action
<djsiegel> (1) we agree it's nice to look at the buddy list and see who you can call
<cassidy> djsiegel, this suck. That means you select a contact and then have to move your mouse to the top of the contact list to call
<djsiegel> cassidy: yeah
<djsiegel> or right-click
<djsiegel> using a context menu as the main way to initiate a call is worse
<djsiegel> a worse experience
<djsiegel> you may feel it's faster, and it may be faster, but it's yucky
<istaz> but I'm of the option that if we have a menu we better not have a different one than the context menu, it confuse the user to have to remember two different menu structure
<cassidy> I don't know. Let's see how it goes with the new popup
<djsiegel> I never knew those icons were clickable
<djsiegel> and with the proposed change in style, they will look less clickable
<djsiegel> also, can I have video but not audio support?
<istaz> djsiegel: if you need to select a contact anyway to see if you can call it, you might as well right click it
<itorrey> What if we took a step back and looked at it from the perspective of what the user is trying to do. In general, baseline there is going to be audio. Video is a bonus. What if it were a single call button and the call interface enabled video to be started
<itorrey> and a pref pane or something that lets you set to auto start video by default or not
<itorrey> So the action is call and then video is just an extra that may or may not exist
<djsiegel> right, that's my point
<djsiegel> Show only one icon/button
<djsiegel> the "call" button
<djsiegel> it's a phone handset if they don't have video, otherwise it;s a video icon
<itorrey> Why make the user make an arbitrary choice based on the technology used?
<cassidy> itorrey, there is only one button now
<djsiegel> cassidy: but it looks like two things
<djsiegel> is the point
<djsiegel> the user doesn't know there's only one click target
<cassidy> no, there is only one icon in the contact list now
<djsiegel> oh
<cassidy> yeah, that's why I opened https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606235
<ubottu> Gnome bug 606235 in Artwork "Need a better audio/video icon in the contact list" [Normal,New]
<kenvandine> but it takes you to a context menu?
<djsiegel> perfect!
<cassidy> kenvandine, yes
<djsiegel> yes, this is great
<cassidy> djsiegel, try empathy master
<kenvandine> cassidy, why not take you to the call dialog?
<djsiegel> Yeah, I would start the call
<kenvandine> which has the video button already?
<djsiegel> and make it easy to disable the video feed if video is enabled
<kenvandine> saves a click, generally :)
<cassidy> because for some protocol we have to choose if we want an audio or audio/video call before starting the call
<cassidy> as we can't add video later
<djsiegel> cassidy: ah, ok
<kenvandine> humm
<cassidy> (thanks google video)
<kenvandine> before opening the call dialog even?
<djsiegel> just do video if it can
<djsiegel> I think it's worth forcing video :)
<djsiegel> lol
<djsiegel> to get rid of a menu
<cassidy> If I'm naked I certainly don't want to automatically start my webcam
<cassidy> and then people accidentally start calls when clicking on the roster
 * kenvandine especially if i am calling you :)
<istaz> kenvandine: we are starting the call as soon as the call dialog is open
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> ok
<cassidy> djsiegel, this one should be easy to fix https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603472
<ubottu> Gnome bug 603472 in Chat "Rename "Hidden" to "Invisible"" [Normal,New]
<kenvandine> why not make that the decision step?
<kenvandine> cassidy, i have a patch for making the custom message dialog wider
<kenvandine> seems like a no brainer
<cassidy> which dialog?
<cassidy> the edit custom status?
<kenvandine> setting the custom away message
<kenvandine> it is one of the bugs
<kenvandine> yeah
<istaz> kenvandine: otherwhise the user would have to open the call dialog, then click on a call button. Which is strange since if they open the call dialog they want to call anyway
<cassidy> kenvandine, I'm looking at the bugs atm
<seb128> re
<cassidy> hi seb128
<seb128> hey cassidy
<cassidy> kenvandine, can you please fw your patch uptream? I'll review it tomorrow
<seb128> cassidy, how are you?
<kenvandine> cassidy, yeah, thx
<cassidy> patch applied and not forwarded https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/502996/comments/2 :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 502996 in hundredpapercuts "Edit Custom Messages window is too narrow" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<cassidy> seb128, good good. Lot of work :)
<seb128> hehe, I know that ;-)
<cassidy> hopefully one day all the 455 will be closed :)
<istaz> cassidy: how much bug were there when you started again?
<seb128> ;-)
<cassidy> problem is, I usually close one bug and open 2 new ones :D
<cassidy> as I tri to have all the tasks list on the bugzilla
<seb128> you do a rocking work on empathy ;-)
<seb128> now we just need somebody doing that on telepathy-* too
<cassidy> thanks :)
<seb128> some protocols are buggy
<djsiegel> seb128: can we remove "Back" and "Forward" labels from Nautilus for Lucid? they are the only buttons labeled horizontally in the Nautilus toolbar, and they need labels the least
<cassidy> seb128, yeah. Hopefully istaz's recent work should improve MSN a bit
<seb128> djsiegel, we could, I would prefer having somebody suggesting that on the upstream list though
<seb128> better than having distro specific change
<seb128> cassidy, oh, butterfly changes? ;-)
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I've started running empathy again in lucid
<seb128> let's see how it goes
<cassidy> 2.29.4 works pretty well for me
<seb128> so far I'm annoyed by the lack of tooltip infos on contacts
<cassidy> the vCard info?
<seb128> but otherwise it seems to work good
<seb128> well things like idle time on icq
<cassidy> this is a protocol feature?
<seb128> I don't know, pidgin displays it
<seb128> gnomeicu did too
<seb128> when I used it
<cassidy> I don't have any clue about ICQ tbh
<kenvandine> jcastro, i just uploaded the tomboy/appindicator fixes to both lucid and the karmic ppa
<seb128> cassidy, well pidgin displays the connected time too in pidgin for jabber
<jcastro> <3, thanks!
<seb128> -in pidgin
<cassidy> seb128, that's probably done by the client then
<seb128> cassidy, ups sorry that was an icq contact
<seb128> I think it's an icq protocol feature
<cassidy> we don't have API to expose that in Telepathy actually
<cassidy> so it's not going to happen soonish
<seb128> in fact I've the idle time for danilo on jabber
<seb128> so it's not icq specific
<seb128> ok
<seb128> just a detail
<seb128> if I complain about detail that's a good sign ;-)
<seb128> I like the lines to reconnect in the buggy list if you connect from somewhere else
<cassidy> indeed :)
<seb128> you just have to click on the reconnect icon
<seb128> that rocks ;-)
<cassidy> you're the on who asked for it :p
<seb128> buggy -> buddy
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> and I'm happy to see it working ;-)
<seb128> I think I will stay on empathy this time
<cassidy> \o/
<cassidy> let me know when you'll switch back to Pidgin ;)
<cassidy> djsiegel, I commented all the bugs on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestone/lucid-round-4 and/or their upstream equivalent
<seb128> kenvandine, still there?
<vish> cassidy: hi... i just included a monochrome icon in humanity for the mic...
<seb128> kenvandine, is the package you needed review for ready?
<vish> cassidy: you want the icon to be included in empathy itself?
<cassidy> vish, can I see it? :)
<vish> cassidy: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~elementaryart/elementaryicons/trunk/revision/388#humanity-icon-theme/Humanity/devices/16/audio-input-microphone.svg
<vish> cassidy: it would be great if its in empathy itself... then we can make the icon darker
<cassidy> vish, actually this icon is not shipped in Empathy
<cassidy> it comes from gnome-icon-theme
<vish> cassidy: yup... but we can use a custom icon in empathy itself
<cassidy> I prefer to rely on gnome-icon-theme when possible
<vish> cassidy: ok , the monochrome icons are now using the namespace -symbolic so i guess that is a small change to do
<istaz> seb128: yeah the bug preventing you to make more than one consecutive call should be fixed now
<istaz> (well as soon as jonnylamb review my branch)
<seb128> nice
<istaz> and I'm hoping to have file transfer done by next week
<seb128> that would rock
<TheMuso> Is wacom-tools on anybody's radar? If its trivial to fix, I'll have a look at it, as its currently breaking studio disk builds.
<TheMuso> Well, the disks build, but they are uninstallable.
<fredp> cassidy: got it, added to my plate.
<cassidy> fredp, the theme bug?
<fredp> cassidy: the strike class, yeah.
<fredp> cassidy: hit me hard tomorrow afternoon, and I'll do it then.
<cassidy> I will :)
<chrisccoulson> good evening everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<kenvandine> seb128, no... it will be tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, i'm good thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
 * kenvandine heads out for a bit, bbl
<seb128> kenvandine, ok
<kenvandine> seb128, thx though
<seb128> chrisccoulson: good thank you
<seb128> np
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, facebook has started appearing in french for me now
<seb128> nice ;-)
<chrisccoulson> aha, i must have changed the language bt accident
<seb128> we should make french the default language for ubuntu too
<chrisccoulson> s/bt/by
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> there was a elibc bug which broke locales yesterday
<seb128> it's fixed with today updates though
<seb128> you might just be hitting it
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i saw that earlier
<seb128> btw did you start on g-c-c?
<seb128> it's the only source in the default install that need a rebuild for the libgnome-desktop soname change now
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm going to do that in a minute. i ran out of time last night
<seb128> brb restarting session
<chrisccoulson> sorry, i'm a bit slow to type, i've only got 1 hand available atm
<seb128> re
<seb128> chrisccoulson: don't worry
<seb128> chrisccoulson: how is the baby doing?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, she's ok. she's just watching the computer screen at the moment
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> you don't let her use the keyboard? :-)
<chrisccoulson> lol, not yet. the cats occasionally use the keyboard though
<seb128> hehe
<djsiegel> kenvandine: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606358
<ubottu> Gnome bug 606358 in General "Contact List is sometimes not shown when Empathy is launched" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ccheney> grr OOo 3.2 is broken in weird ways still
<ccheney> will just have to put it off until later and just fixup 3.1.1 to be good enough for the next alpha
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-08
<pitti> Good morning
<kenvandine> hey pitti
 * kenvandine just released 0.2 of xchat-indicator :)
<kenvandine> time to crash!
<kenvandine> good night all
<pitti> yay
<pitti> kenvandine: good night!
<glatzor> morning pitti and mvo
<mvo> hey glatzor! good morning!
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> hey mvo!
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> hey glatzor, hey mvo, hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<mvo> seb128: tired, but otherwise good
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> davidbarth, hey, do you know what happened to dxteam weekly tarballs?
<seb128> davidbarth, I've seen no upload yesterday
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good, thank you, what about you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm ok thanks. i've just got in to work, i had a few car issues this morning which delayed me
<chrisccoulson> and my breakfast has just arrived now
<chrisccoulson> perfect timing :)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> you have no luck with cars
<seb128> or is that still the same one which let you down in december?
<seb128> enjoy breakfast
<chrisccoulson> yeah, mine is a pain in the cold. it's still the same car. there is a relay in the windscreen wiper motor which ices up in the cold, and i have to use a hair-dryer on it to warm it up ;)
<seb128> brb, reboot after daily dist-upgrade
<seb128> chrisccoulson, urg, you deserve coffee and breakfast now then ;-)
<davidbarth> seb128: not ready yesterday, postponed to today
<seb128> hum, ok
<seb128> or next week then
 * seb128 doesn't like things landing on friday evening
<seb128> when everybody is away for the weekend
<davidbarth> seb128: well, for a2, it's today the latest
<seb128> let's see
<davidbarth> seb128: next week is another story, it will be the beginning of a3
<seb128> you will get tarballs today
<seb128> we will see when we upload to lucid
<seb128> I don't push new versions on friday afternoon usually
<seb128> that's a receipt to have a broken distro until after weekend
<davidbarth> seb128: ok, i understand
<davidbarth> seb128: yeah
<davidbarth> seb128: but yesterday we didn't have enough new features for the app indicators, and the community needs that
<davidbarth> seb128: so we're pushing a bit more to get that in a2 proper
<seb128> I understand don't worry
<seb128> I'm just saying that might land on monday in lucid
<seb128> which is fine for alpha2
<huats> morning everyone
<pitti> I'm off for some two hours for an appointment
<seb128> pitti, see you later
<seb128> huats, hey
<huats> seb128, hello !
<seb128> bah
<seb128> indicator-application is too buggy to be used
<seb128> davidbarth, is ted working on fix it for alpha2?
<seb128> I don't see any commit for 3 weeks
<seb128> you can't call set_menu, set_icon, etc several time
<seb128> so it's not possible to do any update which sort of limit the use
<davidbarth> seb128: yes, is been working on it the week of christmas and this week of course
<davidbarth> seb128: update, you mean sending a menu update, right?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> menu or icon
<seb128> there is a bug with a testcase for the icon issue
<seb128> the api is buggy too
<davidbarth> that's right; bug with test case ok
<davidbarth> i mean, good to have a test case
<seb128> it would explain why the rhythmbox icon doesn't change on play or pause
<seb128> (though it would be broken if it changed due to the custom theme dir)
<davidbarth> the api is new, but it's similar to the kde one; i don't think it's that buggy, it needs more work, but the number of ported, and so impacted, applications so far is limited
<seb128> davidbarth, no sorry, I mean there is a bug in the documentation
<seb128> I will do a patch for it now
<seb128> davidbarth, it has "These are the states that the indicator can be on in the user's panel. The indicator by default starts in the state APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_OFF and can be shown by setting it to APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_ON."
<davidbarth> seb128: bratsche is looking at the right signal to connect to to get the updates to be propagated
<seb128> where it's _ACTIVE and _PASSIVE in the neum
<seb128> enum
<seb128> and the default state is wrong too
<seb128> if you don't call set_status on ACTIVE it's displayed anyway
<seb128> hey agateau
<seb128> nothing too specific or that can't wait for ted
<seb128> I was saying that "These are the states that the indicator can be on in the user's panel. The indicator by default starts in the state APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_OFF and can be shown by setting it to APP_INDICATOR_STATUS_ON."
<seb128> is wrong
<seb128> the enum has _ACTIVE and _PASSIVE there and no _ON and _OFF as values
<seb128> and the default seems to be ACTIVE
<seb128> since if you don't cann set_status it does display the indicator anyway
<seb128> call
<agateau> seems to be consistent with the spec
<davidbarth> seb128: hmm, that must be a mismatch between a spec element and the implementation; thanks for spotting this one
<seb128> I will open a bug now
<davidbarth> seb128: call? you mean you're on a call; ping us back then
<seb128> davidbarth, no "cann" was a typo for "call"
<seb128> sorry ;-)
<seb128> cf line before the "call"
<davidbarth> k
<seb128> davidbarth, agateau: bug #504700
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504700 in indicator-application "inconsistant status documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504700
<davidbarth> seb128: about the inability to call set_menu or icon multiple times, it's all about supporting updates, right? or did you spot other issues in the code, like statics, or wrong create/destroy cycles?
<seb128> davidbarth, updates
<davidbarth> seb128: ok
<seb128> davidbarth, agateau: I've added a small testcase to bug #504699 to show the default value issue too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504699 in indicator-application "inconsistant status documentation" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504699
<seb128> bug #504700 rather
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504700 in indicator-application "inconsistant status documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504700
<seb128> sorry I opened it twice
<seb128> closed the dup
<JamieBennett> I need to determine if we have 3D acceleration capabilities to install either a 2D or 3D netbook-launcher for UNE on ARM.
<JamieBennett> glxinfo | grep 'renderer string' would do it but apparently there is a better way? Anyone know what that is?
<seb128> JamieBennett, hi, I don't know but bryyce or mvo might know
<seb128> they are probably not around right now, it's lunch time for mvo and early for bryyce
<seb128> you can wait there though
 * JamieBennett hangs around
<mvo> JamieBennett: hi, in compiz we use http://paste.ubuntu.com/353425/
<seb128> mvo, wb, I guess that s-c crashing on exit is known?
<seb128> mvo, it's very noticable now that apport is running again in lucid
<JamieBennett> mvo thanks
<mvo> seb128: what is the backtrace?
<seb128> mvo, a NoSectionError
<seb128> let me check again
<seb128> mvo, bug #494899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494899 in software-center "software-center crashed with NoSectionError in set()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494899
<seb128> bug #495698
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 495698 in software-center "ConfigParser.NoSectionError error on exit" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495698
<seb128> bug #495698
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I fix it today
<seb128> mvo, I think those 3 bugs are duplicate and the same issue
<seb128> bug #504057
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504057 in software-center "software-center crashed with NoSectionError in set()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504057
<seb128> sorry I had the same number twice before
<mvo> np
<seb128> mvo, ^ those are the 3 matching
<mvo> thanks, milestoned
<seb128> thank you
<seb128> I get the bug if you need testing
<seb128> it happens when closing s-c
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I will come back to you about it
<asac> plymouth officially busted?
<tseliot> asac: ?
<seb128> asac, Keybuk should know
<asac> i get reports that we always get error messages at boot about it
<asac> one sec
<asac> 13:10 < JamieBennett> asac: Its mountall: Could not connect to Plymouth
<tseliot> I haven't had the time to do further work on it but yes, Keybuk should know about that
<tseliot> asac: maybe because plymouth is not installed?
<asac> good idea ;)
<tseliot> (not that if installed that would work correctly)
<asac> heh
<asac> takes a bit ;)
<asac> 13:14 < ogra> ii  libplymouth2                         0.8.0~-6                                   graphical boot animation and logger - shared
<seb128> asac, what about the plymouth binary?
<seb128> asac, the lib is probably not enough
<asac> yeah
<asac> seems to be not installed. isnt that in the desktop seed?
<JamieBennett> seb128 no binary
<seb128> asac, not yet
 * asac has no clue about plymouth ;)
<asac> ah ok
<seb128> asac, Keybuk mentioned yesterday to have to do that for next week
<asac> then its expected
<asac> ok. when do you plan to
<seb128> before flying on tuesday I think
<seb128> I don't plan anything
<seb128> Keybuk said it's an alpha2 goal
<seb128> so before tuesday I expect
<seb128> lunch time there
<seb128> bbl
<asac> flying?
<asac> sprint?
<JamieBennett> Looks like a glxinfo | grep "direct rendering: Yes" (or glxinfo | grep 'renderer string' differing opinions on which is best) is the way to detect 3D acceleration. Where do I look to integrate this into GDM so the right one (2D/3D) is launched on login?
<asac> thats the brute force approach. too bad i cant remember. i was told that its important to check for a certain extension ;)
<asac> JamieBennett: i would think its in the session script
<JamieBennett> asac: I talked to MacSlow and a few guys in #ubuntu-x seems there is no real nice way of detecting it on all platforms
<asac> ok we will see.
<mvo> JamieBennett: there is no nice and easy way, but just checking for directrendering will miss use cases like ltsp that works ok with gl over the network iirc
<asac> maybe we should check the UDS session notes again
<asac> maybe i commented i tthere
<asac> mvo: do you know which extension we need to probe for?
<mvo> asac: I pasted what we do in compiz
<asac> where?
<mvo> basicly we check for software raserization and if that is present we bail out
<mvo> in lucid in code
 * asac searches for glasses
<asac> mvo: we want to check for UNE launcher
<mvo> in karmic we do it with a script
<mvo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/353425/
<asac> might not be the same as compiz
<mvo> you also need to be careful because some HW supports acceleration only on the first head
<mvo> so e.g. the guest session will be slow if you try 3d on it
<asac> yeah. well. at best we would have a strict check
<asac> its ok for us to bail out
<asac> on arm
<asac> actually we expect that to happen in most cases
<mvo> LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT is also something that may be tested (not sure if that is still relevant) - so once with that set and once without
<mvo> Amaranth: recently ported all the checks to C, he knows best currently what to check for
<asac> mvo: but is compiz even related to UNE/clutter?
 * asac lunch
<kenvandine> pitti, have you seen the branch for jockey adding appindicator support?
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<pitti> kenvandine: Conor was talking to me about it, yes
<seb128> is that working?
<kenvandine> seb128, yes
<seb128> trying to stop displaying the icon there is a fail, weird
<seb128> I'm wondering what you do to get that working
<kenvandine> it displays the icon
<seb128> well it should stop once the driver is installed
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> I've not managed to get that working
<kenvandine> humm
<seb128> the set_status just does nothing there
<kenvandine> once jockey marks it as seen, it doesn't notify
<seb128> I had a go to gnome-bluetooth today
<seb128> how to you get the icon to go away from the indicator?
<seb128> calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything
<seb128> calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything there
<seb128> calling set_status on passive doesn't do anything there
<kenvandine> when i tested the appindicator branch  it goes away when you click it
<seb128> ups wrong screen
<kenvandine> which opens jockey
<kenvandine> the icon goes away
<kenvandine> pitti, did he do a merge proposal yet?
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will have a look to the code, thanks
<pitti> kenvandine: didn't see one yet (at least I didn't get mail)
<kenvandine> oh, he added a patch to the bug instead of doing a merge proposal
<kenvandine> he says it has my changes included, but LP isn't responding...
<kenvandine> pitti, bug 497879
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 497879 in jockey "Support Application Indicators" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/497879
<seb128> pitti, does jockey exit if there is nothing to do?
<seb128> tedg, good morning
<tedg> Good morning seb128
<pitti> seb128: on --check? yes
<seb128> pitti, ok, so that's why no icon is displayed, you don't hide it but just exit?
 * tedg assumes it's good, he hasn't opened his e-mail yet :)
<pitti> seb128: exactly; why should I leave the process running?
<seb128> pitti, no reason, I was wondering why masking the icon worked in the jockey case and not there
<seb128> tedg, I sent you a small patch in a bug I opened
<seb128> tedg, should $ python -c 'import gobject, gtk, appindicator; ind = appindicator.Indicator ("example-simple-client", "indicator-messages", appindicator.CATEGORY_APPLICATION_STATUS); ind.set_status (appindicator.STATUS_PASSIVE); ind.set_menu(gtk.Menu()); gtk.main()' work
<seb128> tedg, ie should that display no icon? or did I not understand the status thing?
<tedg> seb128: It should, but that branch is not merged yet.  It's getting into some sort of infinite signal loop :(  I hope to have it merged today.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> tedg, otherwise lp #504700
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/504700)
<seb128> bah launchpad today
<seb128> kenvandine, it works for jockey because it exit when there is nothing to do
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> kenvandine, so it doesn't actually have to hide the icon
<JamieBennett> Anyone around knows how netbook-launcher is selected in UNE? Does it use gnome-session or some other mechanism?
<mvo> seb128: could you quickly check if software-center gives you a debian placeholder thumbnail for missing images? or a (correct) ubuntu one?
<mvo> (or someone else :) ?
<seb128> mvo, trying
<mvo> btw, gio == love
<tedg> seb128: Cool, yes I had originally wanted the status to be more informative, but I stuck with making it match the spec.
<seb128> mvo, debian in current lucid
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I just wanted to be sure its not me (or my squid)
<seb128> mvo, you're welcome
<seb128> tedg, in the indicator design, should toggle visibility icons work that way or have a menu with one show or hide entry?
<seb128> tedg, in the indicator design, should toggle visibility icons work that way or have a menu with one show or hide entry displayed?
<tedg> seb128: Menu item
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> well that's blocked on set_status to do something
<seb128> ie having a way to stop showing the icon
<seb128> but I will look at doing the nautilus change
<seb128> it's only one icon for the copies there
 * seb128 waves to launchpad, hello?
<seb128> tedg, btw do you want me to turn my typo fix in a proper merge request?
<tedg> seb128: You can, but I already merged it in :)
<seb128> ok, I will not bother then
<seb128> is there any way to do that from the command line?
<seb128> or is that a launchpad ui thing?
<tedg> There is, but I've not gotten it to work.
 * seb128 is launchpad bzr newbie
<tedg> You have to send a bundle via the e-mail interface.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> seems the ui thing is easier ;-)
<kenvandine> tedg, i never got that stuff working either
<kenvandine> statik tried coaching me, but it was complicated
<seb128> kenvandine, xchat-indicator, please use a 0ubuntu1 version
<kenvandine> i think once you get all that stuff setup it could be quite convienent
<kenvandine> for ubuntu i will
<tedg> I think that the there is probably an issue with using the GUI mail tools like Evo that makes it complicated.  I think it's simple if you have a local mail server configured.
<seb128> tedg, kenvandine: hey
<seb128> tedg, will checkboxes in the indicator menu work soon too?
<tedg> seb128: Yes.  Today.
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> the "hey" was to test kenvandine's xchat-gnome indicator thing
<seb128> seems to work fine
<seb128> xchat-gnome still claims for attention though
<seb128> ie the taskbar entry does its effect thingy
<james_w> "bzr send lp:<project> --mail-to merge@launchpad.net" IIRC
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> seb128, himm... to you think i should change that?
<kenvandine> i can
<kenvandine> now that i figured out i can get a pointer to the window in the plugin
<kenvandine> pitti, about jockey... do you want me to just distro patch that for now?
<pitti> kenvandine: fine for me
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> james_w, nice
<seb128> slomo, hey
<seb128> kenvandine, no strong opinion but I though the point of queuing things was to avoid active annoyance like the blincking
<kenvandine> empathy  still does that
<kenvandine> and i think pidgin does too
<seb128> ie the taskbar flashed I don't really need the indicator icon change
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pitti, can you jabber ping me now?
<seb128> just to test something
<pitti> seb128: done
<seb128> kenvandine, no empathy doesn't
<kenvandine> humm
<seb128> I got the notify bubble and that's all
<kenvandine> did you have the chat window open?
<kenvandine> mine just did it
<seb128> no dialog opening nor blinking
<seb128> no
<kenvandine> leave the chat window open
<kenvandine> it will
<kenvandine> just not focused
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I tend to close my im dialgos
<seb128> dialogs
<seb128> using pidgin they just auto-open
<slomo> seb128: hi :)
<kenvandine> i think the difference is xchat you never close
<seb128> and empathy they just queue
<seb128> well I fail to see the point of the indicator
<seb128> if you have a task blinking to indicate that anyway
<kenvandine> queue of things that need your attention
<kenvandine> i am all for not blinking the taskbar
<seb128> well the tasklist queue them too
<kenvandine> i just hadn't considered it
<seb128> ok
<seb128> in any case packaging looks good
<seb128> and it worked directly
<kenvandine> cool :)
<seb128> I didn't need to restart xchat-gnome
<seb128> is there any way to active it when installed?
<seb128> without having to do that manually
<seb128> if you install it that's probably to use it
<seb128> or is that some sort of gconf list you would need to edit?
<kenvandine> i think gconf
<seb128> ok, that sucks
<seb128> anyway it's a good start
<kenvandine> so we would need to change that in xchat-gnome and make it depend/recommends etc
<seb128> let me know when you want sponsoring
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> I would be in favor of no blinking too
<seb128> if you want to fix that
<seb128> I think that's the main interest of the indicator
<seb128> to avoid having things stressing you
<seb128> they just go there
<kenvandine> yeah
<chrisccoulson> wow,  my DSL connection is no faster than dial-up this afternoon!
<vish> mpt: hi...around?
<mpt> hi vish
<vish> mpt: Bug 194472 is awaiting your higher intervention ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, very fast dial-up or very slow dsl? ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194472 in hundredpapercuts "Entering password in Terminal gives no visual feedback" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194472
<vish> mpt: i asked matthiaz he mentioned he wasnt very sure of what you suggested
<vish> mpt: he said your comments on the bug were a bit unclear ... he wasnt sure if the need to change the default behavior in sudo or to change the behavior in the other apps
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm getting about 40kbps at the moment ;)
<pitti> seb128: do you happen to know when the next gst release will be? (for bug 460535)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460535 in gst-plugins-base0.10 "Unable to play any but the first track of CD" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460535
<seb128> pitti, no
<seb128> slomo, ^
<pitti> bryyce: WDYT about the patch for bug 494627? it sounds important to get into a2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 494627 in xorg-server "nv driver crashing with segmentation fault in libpthread.so.0" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494627
<seb128> pitti, it has been uploaded
<seb128> xorg-server (2:1.7.3.902-1ubuntu1) lucid; urgency=low
<seb128>   [ Michael Vogt ]
<seb128>   * Add 101_nv-crash-fix.diff: Do not crash if gamma_set is NULL.
<seb128>     (LP: #494627)
<seb128> pitti, no?
<pitti> seb128: hm, the bug is still open
<pitti> ah, someone reopened it apparently?
<seb128> I didn't look at the bug
<rodrigo__> pitti, seb128: are there branches for karmic packages?
<seb128> just lucid-changes
<slomo> seb128: pre-releases should be there in a few days iirc
<seb128> pitti, ^
<pitti> yay
<seb128> slomo, thanks
<rodrigo__> that is, I'm going to submit a lucid package, but I'm wondering what to do if I later have a karmic change, since trunk would be lucid
<pitti> rodrigo__: not for ~ubuntu-desktop, just the auto-imports; feel free to create a branch if you need one, though
<rodrigo__> pitti: not for now, just want to submit a lucid package
<rodrigo__> so I'll create one if I need to
<tjaalton> pitti: right, closed again
<pitti> tjaalton: heh, me too
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I'm away for some erands
<seb128> bbl
<seb128> kenvandine, let me know if you need any sponsoring or anything
<seb128> I will read backlog later
<seb128> bbl
<kenvandine> ok, i need to run out in a few too
<kenvandine> driving my daughter to school... they delayed school 2 hours because of snow... which never happened
<rickspencer3_> I did a dist-upgrade yesterday, and my window manager is hilariously messed up
 * rickspencer3_ switches to compiz
<rickspencer3_> much better
<mvo> compiz ftw ;)
<pitti> davidbarth, kenvandine: would you mind updating the DX integration status on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?
 * kenvandine runs out for a few... back in about 30m
<rickspencer3_> pitti, I guess that's a "no" from kenvandine
<rickspencer3_> ;)
<pitti> heh
<Hobbsee> well, that all depends on how long you want to wait ;)
<pitti> seb128: do you happen to know what happened DX integration-wise this week?
<pitti> Hobbsee: 29 minutes :)
<Hobbsee> pitti: then he'll have 2 mins to do it :P
<mpt> vish, done
<Hobbsee> should be no great problem, on that basis
<vish> mpt: awesome.. thanks :)
<rickspencer3_> pitti, check out what bdmurray did for us:
<rickspencer3_> http://people.canonical.com/~brian/tmp/canoncial-desktop-team-assigned.json
<rickspencer3_> it runs once per night
<rickspencer3_> and is integrated with bughugger
<davidbarth> pitti: updating the work items atm, will do next
<pitti> davidbarth: cheers
<pitti> rickspencer3_: sweet!
<davidbarth> pitti: if you want to trigger your scripts to rebuild the b-down charts, the dx graph should look different
<vish> mpt: I'm confused... you want the feedback shown ... or is the comment to leave the behavior as it is now...  shall I unassign the papercut bug?
<mpt> vish, I'm saying it should depend on what server administrators want, not on what desktop users want.
<pitti> davidbarth: rebuilding
<pitti> davidbarth: (note that it always takes some 10 minutes before whiteboard changes propagate to production DB)
<vish> mpt: since papercuts are for the desktop users .. so the bug is not a papercut it that sense..right?
<pitti> davidbarth: ERROR: dx-lucid-application-indicator: invalid state "inprogress (blocked in the packaging queue)" for work item "[agateau] add dbusmenu support to kdelibs"
<mpt> vish, I don't know. I think the Server team has been doing papercuts, but I don't know whether they use a project for it, and if so, what one.
<pitti> davidbarth: otherwise, updated
<vish> mpt: ok... thanks...
<rickspencer3_> pitti, to entice you to take a look at bughugger:
<rickspencer3_> http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2010/01/more-bug-reporting-tools.html
<asac> pitti: will there be a run for work items in 10 minutes?
<asac> ;)
<pitti> asac: yes
<pitti> rickspencer3_: *excited* gravity column? sweet!
<pitti> rickspencer3_: although arguably that's not really useful for assigned bugs
<rickspencer3_> pitti, not *as* useful for sure
<pitti> I'd love to sort by gravity for untriaged/unassigned bugs in my packages
<rickspencer3_> pitti, you can totally do that with bughugger
<rickspencer3_> bzr branch lp:bughugger
<pitti> Package: bughugger
<pitti> Status: install ok installed
<rickspencer3_> cd bughugger
<pitti> :)
<rickspencer3_> quickly run
<pitti> ah, for crack of the day
<rickspencer3_> pitti, you want to use the branch, the PPA is a bit out of date
<rickspencer3_> I'm going to just try to get it strait into universe next week
 * pitti does that the
<djsiegel> seb128: is gwibber still shipping?
<rickspencer3_> djsiegel, maybe I don't understand your question, but we are expecting to put it onto the CD in main to support the Me Menu
<djsiegel> rickspencer3_: ah, ok
<djsiegel> I just meant, is gwibber going to be a standalone, user-facing application in Lucid
<rickspencer3_> djsiegel, I'
<rickspencer3_> m sure how we are going to handle the UI part, but I assume it will be a stand alone app so there is some way to view your microblog feeds
<rickspencer3_> also, the configuration components are needed for Me Menu
<djsiegel> ok
<djsiegel> itorrey: http://github.com/phl/Fadomatic
<geser> does somebody know of any objections to not sync/merge mutter from Debian testing? I'd ask didrocks as he did the Ubuntu packages but he doesn't seem to be here
<asac> geser: maybe check with njpatel ... not sure if he knows anything about mutter
<asac> geser: also maybe check with pauliu ... he did that for OEM afaik
<asac> paulliu actually
<njpatel> asac: geser: I haven't tested out mutter from testing, but this would be the time to get it in I think
<asac> is mutter used anywhere on images?
<kenvandine> tseliot, ping
<tseliot> kenvandine: pong
<pitti> don't think so; it's still in universe
<asac> geser: otherwise, just go ahead
<kenvandine> tseliot, there are unreleased changes in the bzr branch for jockey
<kenvandine> tseliot, can those get uploaded?
 * kenvandine needs to get a patch uploaded
<asac> if you could check if all build depends for carrick are in debian i would be even happier
<asac> ;)
 * asac feels to ask for too much
<tseliot> kenvandine: not without the new nvidia common which in turn requires my nvidia drivers
<kenvandine> ok, i will do a debdiff without your changes then :)
<tseliot> kenvandine: good
<kenvandine> thx
<tseliot> thanks for asking ;)
<pitti> good bye everyone, have a nice weekend!
<rickspencer3_> see you in Paris pitti!
<djsiegel> cassidy: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/217582/Files%20Shared%20from%20GNOME%20Do/Screenshot-2-1213890507.png ?
<mpt> mvo, Empathy now has buttons in rows too: ^^
<vish> mpt: thats a mockup ;)
<mpt> It is?
<mpt> durn
<vish> mpt: djsiegel fooled me too :)
<djsiegel> mpt: yeah, sorry
<djsiegel> I am trying to persuade them not to put buttons-that-look-like-icons-that-reveal-a-small-context-menu-when-clicked
<djsiegel> in ever row
<djsiegel> every*
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, I see davidbarth did it
<seb128> geser, go for it that will fix gnome-shell
<seb128> geser, you might need replaces in ubuntu so no sync
<seb128> djsiegel, what rickspencer3 replied
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> how are you?
<rickspencer3> excited
<rickspencer3> looking forward to Paris
<seb128> about?
<seb128> oh right ;-)
<rickspencer3> haven't been there in 24 years!
<rickspencer3> (well, except the airport)
<rickspencer3> and looking forward to seeing didrocks, and pitti and Neil, and davidbarth, etc...
<seb128> (which we will not talk about right? ;-)
<seb128> is your french ready for that now you think? ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, sadly not
<seb128> yeah
<rickspencer3> I was practicing, though
<seb128> I'm pondering joining for a day
<seb128> I will see next week how the week turns
<rickspencer3> seb128, sounds good
<rickspencer3> no pressure
<seb128> I don't need to book anything in advance if I want to come
<seb128> I just have to catch a train
<rickspencer3> kewl
<rickspencer3> looks like the desktop team did quite a good job for a2
<seb128> \o/
<rickspencer3> very good progress
<seb128> I'm just slightly unhappy about login speed
<seb128> we still have lot to win there
<rickspencer3> this is keeping me away at night
<rickspencer3> I did discuss this with robbiew at length
<asac> away ;)?
<asac> hehe
<rickspencer3> I don't know what is going to happen
<seb128> I don't think the target is doable to be honest
<seb128> but let's see what we manage to do
<rickspencer3> but we had to cut touch UI, a lot of social from the start features, etc...
<seb128> there is just a limit of what you can do on a sucky cpu in a few seconds
<rickspencer3> so I am wondering if we've hit the point of diminishing returns in terms of user benefits
<asac> how much time is currently needed/wanted?
<rickspencer3> asac, we're supposed to be down to 4 seconds, and we are 10+ now
<asac> (just curious)
<asac> ouch. ok
<asac> so maybe dont start nautilus ;)
<asac> or isnt that even in that time?
<rickspencer3> well, that 10+ is like half of where we used to be
<asac> j.k.
<rickspencer3> asac, I think we would also have to not start gnome panel
<asac> yeah. feels like a good improvement if it doesnt get better
<rickspencer3> so, the desktop wouldn't have too much value in that state ;)
<asac> gnome panel is indeed kind of slow
<rickspencer3> in the meantime, it is still our goal to hit the target
<seb128> asac, well not starting nautilus is an option
<seb128> we still have some 8 seconds
<seb128> nautilus is not the limiting part
<asac> thats why i mentioned it first ... on my desktop nautilus startup time is really annoying sometimes
<seb128> and those take some 8 seconds on the atm
<seb128> atom
<asac> like i start working and then at some point mounts auto pop up etc.
<seb128> but 3 seconds on my 2 years old laptop config
<seb128> that's not nautilus
<rickspencer3> a3 is start up time, proprietary driver robustness, a couple of social from the start items, firefox support mdoel, and UNE
<seb128> that's probably the devicekit layer events coming late
<rickspencer3> at a high level
<asac> the popping up certinaly doesnt happen before nautilus is loaded. for me it felt that it happens exactly when the nautilus stuff finished
<asac> but right. could be independent
<seb128> if you have good cpu nautilus start in some 3 seconds
<seb128> at least on my dua centrino 2.4G
<asac> which can be much if gnome-panel is also still rumbling
<seb128> the mini atom takes 8 seconds
<asac> or isnt that in parallel (felt that way)
<seb128> it is
<seb128> but you might have a slow disk and hit io limits?
<asac> could be. its a X61 lenovo ... so not that old
<asac> but disk is definitly not fastest
<asac> but i hope i can say that i have a good average computer for our market :)
<seb128> asac, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/bootchart/seb128-dellmini-lucid-20100106-2.png
<asac> but my nautilus and gnome-panel are customized ... so not comparable to clean install
<seb128> it's where we stand now on the mini
<asac> otoh, i hate windows for getting slower over time ... this isnt the same in that it doesnt get worse at some point, but feels a bit like it if you start with aclean system
<seb128> asac, you take that laptop at the sprint?
<seb128> we can have a look to login speed there if you want...
<asac> hmm. the bootchart doesnt show when a process is in io wait?
<asac> or is it just not recognizable?
<seb128> asac, it does
<seb128> it's red on the bars
<seb128> the mini is ssd drive
<seb128> there is no io issue there
<seb128> the issue is purely cpu use
<seb128> see the charts
<seb128> graphs
<asac> i dont say io throughput, but waiting on io ... like sleeping on a select/poll
<seb128> the first one, blue, is cpu
<asac> i would think all white areas are like that
<seb128> oh, I don't think bootchart can tell that
<seb128> but I don't know about better tools either
<seb128> so we use that for now
<asac> point is if there are is like white areas in the middle of blue ones, that usually means its waiting for sometihng
<asac> if that is paired with no red anywhere, its not optimally scaled
<mvo> mpt: hey, its easy to add those buttons when not in fixed-height mode
<mpt> mvo, I guess contact lists don't get nearly as long
<mvo> mpt: its really only a issue with very big datasets that are displayed
<mpt> yah
<mvo> mpt: yeah
<mvo> mpt: I haven't had time yet, but it should be easy to write something to try it out
<mvo> mpt: then we test performance on a netbook, if its reaonsable there, then we can do it
<seb128> asac, well the blue curve indicates it's 100%cpu all time
<seb128> so I would think it's cpu bounded
<seb128> why would it sit there doing nothing?
<rickspencer3> hiya didrocks
<mvo> mpt: actually that is a interessting mockup, because AFAIK there are still no real buttons available, I can only do the fake buttons (as the arrow buttons we have currently) that are close to the real thing
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> seb128, do you use evo?
<didrocks> hey mvo and seb128 :)
<asac> seb128: so what is gnome-panel doing in the 2/4 section where is so much white?
<seb128> hey didrocks
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
<rickspencer3> seb128, is there a function to archive a folder on a disc locally?
<seb128> asac, dunno, I've been profiling nautilus so far
<rickspencer3> like export to a .gz?
<seb128> rickspencer3, not that I know
<seb128> rickspencer3, I usually create a mbox account and creates folders there
<seb128> and copy emails to that
<rickspencer3> ok
<seb128> it give you files in a dir
<seb128> one mbox file by box
<rickspencer3> makes sense
<seb128> box = folder
<mvo> hey didrocks, happy new year!
<rickspencer3> I tried dragging the emails to a directory and evo went all nutty
<seb128> asac, the cpu is still at 100% though
<seb128> asac, so it might be waiting on applets to load
<seb128> that's done in a sync way
<didrocks> mvo: happy new year to you too :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, weird
<seb128> sorry I've to go for dinner
<seb128> see you laer!
<seb128> later
<rickspencer3> bye bye seb128
<baptistemm> pitti, about hal deprecation I don't remember you mentionned cheese
<baptistemm> hmm, hal is not a debian dependence of cheese
<rickspencer3> baptistemm, there is a bug on cheese depending on hal
<rickspencer3> I think seb128 mentioned that hal dependency is removed in upstream git
<baptistemm> because I can see it crying because of missing hal :)
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> you have to install hal and then run sudo hald :/
<baptistemm> okay cheese has switched to libgudev I guess
<rickspencer3> so the plan is, I think, to get the halectimized version into lucid, and if we can't do that, then we'll have to figure out how to start hal from a dbus signal
<bryyce> rickspencer3, wow that'd suck if we brough back hal for cheese, after all the pain we've taken getting X to not need it ;-)
<rickspencer3> bryyce, well, we wouldn't "bring it back" in it's current form
<rickspencer3> but I seriously doubt this is going to happen
<rickspencer3> my point was just, we'll support cheese
<rickspencer3> it would suck to not have cheese for netbooks
<bryyce> rickspencer3, btw dunno if you saw my blueprint update, but wacom tablets are still broken from the hal removal
 * mvo celebrates commit r500 in software-center
<rickspencer3> bummmer
<rickspencer3> bryyce, what's the plan?
 * rickspencer3 high fives mvo
<bryyce> rickspencer3, I added a note about it in the release notes
<rickspencer3> bryyce, do you envision being fixed for a3?
<bryyce> rickspencer3, I hope so.  We're stuck waiting on upstream to do the development work to move from hal to udev
 * rickspencer3 nods
<rickspencer3> bryyce, let's strive to hold back on commitments to make sure we have bandwidth post a3 to address issues like this
 * rickspencer3 subtly reinforces point from last team meeting
<bryyce> I notice from the burn-down charts that we still have more tasks to do than we've done so far ;-)
<rickspencer3> bryyce, right
<rickspencer3> so we know for a fact we aren't going to get them all done
<rickspencer3> so we should decide now what's not going to get done
<rickspencer3> dissapoint people now, rather than suprise and piss them off later
<rickspencer3> ;)
<bryyce> yeah...  and I know I've been neglecting bug triaging in order to get all the a2 tasks done
<kenvandine> sigh
<kenvandine> seb128, seems some of the DX packages aren't uploadable by ~ubuntu-desktop for lucid, but they are for karmic
<seb128> re
<seb128> kenvandine, I can sponsor but not fix upload rights
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah, i asked cjwatson
<seb128> I noticed
<seb128> but in case he can't fix it today I can upload
<seb128> it's late in the week for new sources though
<seb128> we need an uploader and a reviewer to accept it
<seb128> and I think pitti left for the weekend
<geser> yes, he left 2 hours ago
<seb128> ok...
<seb128> rickspencer3, didrocks: where is the sprint next week btw?
<seb128> where in paris to be specific
<rickspencer3> seb128,
<rickspencer3> Hotel Caumartin
<rickspencer3> 29 Rue de Caumartin
<rickspencer3> 75009 Paris
<rickspencer3> we're actually staying at the hotel next door
<baptistemm> nice place to stay it seems :)
<baptistemm> lucky you
<rickspencer3> baptistemm, as I say, we are staying next door
<rickspencer3> probably a campground or something ;)
<baptistemm> I'm not sure you can find one in Paris :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<baptistemm> perhaps on the Champs de Mars :)
 * rickspencer3 lunches
<rickspencer3> bbl
<baptistemm> just under the Effeil Tower feets :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
<seb128> rickspencer3, I think I will come for at least one day
<seb128> I might stay one night somewhere
<seb128> since return option suck for dinner
<seb128> ie train is 20:30
<seb128> anyway we can discuss that next week
<seb128> enjoy lunch
<seb128> I will probable come on tuesday or wednesday
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<baptistemm> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey baptistemm, how are you?
<baptistemm> fine, we reached the week end
<chrisccoulson> baptistemm - yeah, i like the weekend :)
<chrisccoulson> right, time for me to terminate my contract with my DSL provider :(
<ccheney> asac: hmm maybe you were right about OOo, apparently it can't build because arm is in a bad state atm, kdelibs5-dev is uninstallable
<kenvandine> ccheney, i am actually having the same problem on amd64
<ccheney> OOo itself shouldn't take too long to build but requires things be installed, heh
<ccheney> kenvandine: oh so just general kdelibs5-dev breakage i guess?
<kenvandine> couldn't build jockey because it can't get kdelibs5-data
<kenvandine> ccheney, sounds like it
<ccheney> ok
<ccheney> well OOo should be able to build by next thur hopefully
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-09
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - nice work on the xchat indicator support btw :)
<chrisccoulson> i built your packages for karmic earlier
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, thx
<kklimonda_> good morning
<seb128> hey
<seb128> kenvandine, the new libdbusmenu broke abi and makes the indicator applets just crash now in lucid
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm having at look at fixing that now on saturday evening...
<seb128> kenvandine, I will stop comment then because I'm angry enough that I would not be constructive but I will talk to you and ted next week
<seb128> I've newed the new applet let's see if that fixes it
<seb128> the current version crashes on missing dbusmenu_menuitem_property_get_value there
<seb128> anyway it's middle of weekend going back to non work things
<seb128> bye
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-01-10
<phant0m> anyone know anything about tiger ?
<tgpraveen1> hello
<tgpraveen1> can anyone tell me why ubuntu lucid still has tracker 0.6.95 while 0.7.15 is the latest
<vish> tgpraveen1: are you using Lucid?
<vish>  ;)
<tgpraveen1> vish: not yet. but someday ;-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-03
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti! Happy new year! How are you?
<pitti> hey didrocks, bonjour! I'm great, I enjoyed the long holidays
<pitti> and you?
<didrocks> I enjoyed it too, moving to my new flat :)
<pitti> got everything settled?
<didrocks> however, I still have no Internet, so I'm on a flappy connexion
<didrocks> not yet, will get the bed this evening for instance :)
<pitti> ah, 3G and sleeping mattress :)
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<didrocks> been 20 days on a pneumatic mattress
<didrocks> this has to end :)
<didrocks> air bed*
<pitti> didrocks: so now we have to re-learn what this computer thing is :)
<seb128> hello there!
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> hey pitti didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: exactly, it was so nice to be away from it for some time :)
<pitti> bonjour Monsieur Bacher! Bonne annee!
<seb128> hey pitti, "gute neue jahre?" ;-)
<pitti> didrocks: me too; in all those two weeks I didn't work for more than perhaps 4 hours; spent lots of time with my family and friends, and played Descent 1 & 2 :)
<pitti> seb128: "Gesundes neues Jahr" usually, but thanks!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> Gesundes neues Jahr then! ;-)
<mvo> hey guys! happy new year everyone
 * pitti hugs seb128 and didrocks
<seb128> I managed to not work at all in 2 weeks
 * pitti hugs mvo too, Gesundes Neues!
<seb128> I'm not looking forwarding opening my mailbox
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, Descent! That's true you got it before the holidays :)
 * mvo hugs pitti, seb128, didrocks
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> happy new year!
 * didrocks hugs mvo, pitti and seb128
<pitti> didrocks: I bought d2 as well now, pretty nice
<didrocks> happy new year mvo
 * seb128 hugs mvo pitti didrocks
<pitti> now I have to get used to not sleeping until 9
<didrocks> new bad habits? :)
<mvo> and after peaceful two weeks my daughter decided last night, that 4 in the morning is the right time to get up and wake everyone up (took a good while until we slept again). so much for a good start into the working year ;)
<seb128> hehehe, kids for you!
<didrocks> urgh :)
<seb128> pitti, or get used to sleep until 9 and work later :p
 * mvo will need a lot of tea to shake of the sleepiness
<seb128> I gave up on waking up early, that's not for me :p
<mvo> lol@seb128 - kids help here too :p
<seb128> didrocks, btw how was your moving?
<seb128> you got internet at your new place?
<didrocks> seb128: no Internet yet. I'm on a quite flappy connexion right nowâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: the moving was great otherwise, thanks! :)
<didrocks> I'll have my bed this evening normally
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html -> nice, we just touched the trend line; about time to end the holidays :)
<didrocks> almost settled, but the moving was done with a snowy weather, quite scary :)
<seb128> yeah, I had a though for you at this time
<seb128> nice that you made it ;-)
<mvo> weeeh, its always "fun", moving isn't it. good luck to settle everything
<seb128> didrocks, where do you work from then? some coffee shop in the city ? ;-)
<seb128> stealing some open wifi close by? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, yeah, it was obviously not the good 2 days for planning that :)
<didrocks> seb128: right now, I'm on  free
<didrocks> freewifi*
<didrocks> (with my parents id)
<didrocks> fortunately a neighbour has free, so I can connect on this with other free user id
<didrocks> but the connexion is sometimes down
<didrocks> it's ok for today with all email catching I guess
<didrocks> if it really goes badly, I'll go to framasoft's house where I'm invited :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> when will you get your line working?
<didrocks> don't really knowâ¦ Free has blocked all new connexion since the 15th december with its new freebox (V6) until todayâ¦
<didrocks> so I should see things moving starting from now. (asking to france telecom to connect my flat back and then activate Free)
<didrocks> the new freebox will be sent starting tomorrow
<didrocks> hopefully I'll get something before going to Dallas
<didrocks> and you? how was your holidays?
<seb128> great
<seb128> not touching the computer for 2 weeks was really great, I needed that
<didrocks> nice :)
<seb128> I should be better at taking some holidays during the year this year
<seb128> I was really exhausted before the holidays
<seb128> otherwise really relaxing time
<xclaesse> ah, seb128 was on vacation, that explain I didn't get much in my "apt-get upgrade"
<seb128> sleep, tv, some video gaming (zelda)
<seb128> nice winter weather outside for some walks
<xclaesse> FYI, the only hard-dep missing in natty to build empathy-3 is gnome-keyring-3
<didrocks> seb128: excellent ;) indeed, we have a real winter weather this year
<pitti> mvo: oh, you already fixed the libgnome2-perl -> libgtk2-perl dependencies of gdebi and friends? danke!
<xclaesse> unfortunately, ssh agent doesn't work with gnome-keyring3 from the gnome3 ppa :(
<dpm> morning and happy new year everyone!
<pitti> hey dpm, happy new year!
<dpm> hey pitti, did you have nice holidays?
<didrocks> happy new year dpm!
<pitti> dpm: I did! lots of family, friends, snow, and Descent playing
<dpm> cool :)
<dpm> heya didrocks, happy new year to you too ;)
<mvo> pitti: yw
<pitti> mvo: can bug 659438 be fixed in natty soon, so that we can move it to maverick-updates?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 659438 in python-apt (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 4 other projects) "Installation/Removal fails because of package which could not be located (faiulre in apt.Cache.required_download) (affects: 326) (dups: 177) (heat: 1678)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659438
<mvo> pitti: yes, might be fixed there already, I double check
<seb128> oh, yeah, let's play ping mvo
<seb128> mvo, what's up with my update-notifier fix to make user crash be reported under unity
<seb128> ?
<mvo> seb128: I looked at it its fine, I had some minor nitpick but I forgot what it was, so I will look at it again today
<seb128> mvo, it would be nice if you could land it in natty
<seb128> so we receive bugs about unity
<seb128> mvo, thanks ;-)
<mvo> makes sense of course
<pitti> jasoncwarner: good morning, and happy new year! had some nice holidays?
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, happy new year! how are you?
<rodrigo_> happy new year pitti
<rodrigo_> and all
<pitti> seb128: do you mind if I update gsettings-desktop-schemas to 0.1.3? control-center git head needs it
<seb128> pitti, go for it
<seb128> pitti, you can probably just sync on debian
<rodrigo_> pitti, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gsettings-desktop-schemas/0_1_3_release
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah
<pitti> rodrigo_: is that any different than Debian's?
<pitti> we only use the lp:ubuntu/gsettings-desktop-schemas branch anyway, so syncing will update that as well
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, so just syncing from debian should be ok
<rodrigo_> hey seb128, happy new year
<pitti> cool, doing that then
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_, happy new year!
<rodrigo_> didrocks, same to you :)
<pitti> seb128, rodrigo_: yep, binary debdiff looks fine
<seb128> rodrigo_, happy new year!
<rodrigo_> also, see https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-desktop/2_91_4_release
<pitti> rodrigo_: need sponsoring? can do that
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, unless someone already updated it last week
<pitti> rodrigo_: into lp:ubuntu/g-d?
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, this is g-d-3, so lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-desktop/ubuntu-gtk3
<pitti> ah
<rodrigo_> I think that's the correct branch, seb128 ^ ?
<rodrigo_> although it should probably be lp:~gnome3-team/... as robert_ancell and I discussed the week before last week
<pitti> rodrigo_: hm, these branches aren't compatible
<rodrigo_> well wait, not sure about g-d-3, robert_ancell suggested to use ~gnome3 branches for stuff that is only on the gnome3 ppa
<rodrigo_> and ~ubuntu-desktop/.../ubuntugtk3 for gnome3 versions of libs
<rodrigo_> pitti, oh?
<pitti> bzr: ERROR: KnitPackRepository('file:///home/martin/ubuntu/gnome3/gnome-desktop3/.bzr/repository/')
<pitti> is not compatible with
<pitti> RemoteRepository(bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-desktop/2_91_4_release/.bzr/)
<pitti> different rich-root support
<pitti> rodrigo_: my local one is the checkout of lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-desktop/ubuntu-gtk3
 * pitti tries to upgrade to 2a
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, that worked; sorry for the noise
<rodrigo_> pitti, ah ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: btw, having #MISSING in *.symbols is not acceptable
<pitti> rodrigo_: I'll just remove them from the .symbols, as this is only a PPA etc., but it generally means that upstream screwed up the abi
<rodrigo_> oh, that was the diff shown by dh_gensymbols, it indeed looked strange to me
<rodrigo_> pitti, right
<rodrigo_> btw, I had a problem the week before last week after upgrading, with ssh-agent never showing the password dialog, any idea if something broke there?
 * rodrigo_ upgrades
<pitti> works here
<rodrigo_> pitti, with all up-to-date?
<pitti> rodrigo_: yes, I dist-upgraded almost every day
<rodrigo_> hmm, maybe then it's something in the gnome3 ppa that broke it, but couldn't find what, so looking again
<pitti> rodrigo_: does gnome-control-center with gnome3 ppa work for you?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I get a "cannot open libgtk-x11-3.0.so library blabla" error
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, that's an upstream bug in gtk, ln -s /usr/lib/libgtk-3.0.so /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-3.0.so should fix it
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, and I'll fix the version number; 2ubuntu1 -> 0ubuntu1
<pitti> rodrigo_: heh, ok
<rodrigo_> although g-c-c doesn't work for me now though
<rodrigo_> (gnome-control-center:6793): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: specified class size for type `CcPanel' is smaller than the parent type's `GtkBin' class size
<rodrigo_> I guess it needs a recompile
<pitti> rodrigo_: same here; it doesn't crash, but doesn't show anything
<pitti> rodrigo_: and you didn't update the patches
<rodrigo_> ok, I'll try rebuilding it, let's see
<pitti> rodrigo_: in g-d3
<rodrigo_> pitti, hmm
<pitti> Patch 00git_no_GDK_DRAWABLE.patch can be reverse-applied
<pitti> rodrigo_: 100_load_desired_settings.patch isn't in series, is that intended?
<pitti> rodrigo_: want to fix this yourself, or want me to?
<rodrigo_> I'll fix it
<pitti> thanks
<rodrigo_> ok, so again, patches are not applied when I build locally, as it happened in my seahorse branch, any idea why that happens?
<pitti> rodrigo_: please pull from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-desktop/ubuntu-gtk3 first
<pitti> rodrigo_: as I updated the branch format, merged from you, and did the version fix
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> (pull instead of merge should work and is cleaner)
<pitti> Requested 'gdk-pixbuf-2.0 >= 2.23.0' but version of GdkPixbuf is 2.22.1
<pitti> rodrigo_: ^ do you know where I can get that from? It doesn't seem to be in the PPA
<pitti> I thought we should have the GTK 3 stack in natty already
<seb128> 2.23 was realeased during the holidays
<pitti> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> pitti, yeah
<pitti> so we simply need an update of that?
<pitti> want me to do that?
<seb128> it's in debian experimental
<pitti> i. e. merge it?
<seb128> the diff with debian is probably small to null
<seb128> that would be great
<pitti> right on it
<seb128> the gtk3 situation is weird
<seb128> I'm still catching up on emails
<seb128> but the ppa has a git snapshot?
<pitti> seb128: that's fine; for these things I'd just rather confirm with you first
<seb128> ricotz, could you not upload git snapshots to the ppa for gtk?
<seb128> it's a gnome3 ppa not a crack of the day one
<pitti> rodrigo_: https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+packages doesn't seem to?
<seb128> the natty version is stucked in NEW
<seb128> but maybe it's ok, I read it had some crasher issue
<rodrigo_> seb128, he uploaded it because of the libgtk-x11* problem
<pitti> seb128: if you talk about the new GTK, that was reverted
<ricotz> seb128, hi, this was intended to fix some great problems, like rodrigo_  said
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, once we have the fixed one in natty, we can remove it from the ppa
<pitti> ah, I'll NEW it
<pitti> 3 minutes too late, of course
<pitti> seb128: so gtk+3.0 replaces the gdk-pixbuf package?
<pitti> or are we talking about two different things here?
<seb128> we are talking about different things I think
<seb128> but I didn't really follow what happened with gtk
<seb128> or the breakage ricotz and rodrigo_ are talking about
<seb128> what version was broken?
<pitti> I seem to remember that 2.91.8 had a problem and broke gdm for many people, and then got reverted
<pitti> but I don't see evidence of that in teh changelog, so maybe it wasn't gtk+3.0
<seb128> we never had 2.91.8 in natty
<seb128> or not on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+publishinghistory
<baptistemm> hi there
<baptistemm> Happy New year
<seb128> hey baptistemm, happy new year!
<ricotz> pitti, gtk2.23.3 is broken and also gtk2.91.7 ;)
<pitti> ricotz, rodrigo_: gtk+3.0 binNEWed, but that's still 2.91.7, and the PPA has 2.91.8~git
<pitti> seb128: ah, so it was gtk2, not gtk3
<seb128> pitti, so the gtk you just newed is broken
<rodrigo_> yes
<baptistemm> seb128: sorry If i sent you a picture of me yesterday :)
<pitti> seb128: but we already have 2.91.7-0ubuntu1 in natty
<pitti> seb128: i. e. the binNEW wasn't a new upstream version
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> so is 2.91.7 broken and how so?
<pitti> it just re-adds pixbuf
<pitti> seb128: jdstrand reported (with gtk2) a gdm failure; I didn't have that
<pitti> beyond that I don't know details, I'm afraid
<pitti> gtk3 at least works with apport and jockey etc., although only without themes
<seb128> ricotz, rodrigo_: what is broken in 2.91.7 and 2.23.3?
<ricotz> seb128, 2.91.7 dropped some *.pc files and messed up a method return value
<ricotz> and i think 2.23.3 broke the api
<seb128> way to go gtk guys
<seb128> we should really stay away from GNOME3 this cycle
<pitti> seb128: gdk-pixbuf> we have one extra patch, the rest of the diff is just noise; I'll double-check if the patch is still necessary, and merge or sync
<didrocks> hum, I think I'm the only one with a broken bzr right?
<seb128> didrocks, I neither dist-upgraded nor finished catchup with emails
<seb128> so I didn't try yet, what is broken?
<didrocks> I upgraded and downloaded my email in an cafe yesterday knowing my connexion today :) getting a big stacktrace on bzr branch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/549771/
<pitti> didrocks: workaround: python2.6 /usr/bin/bzr ...
<didrocks> pitti: ok, was going to try that, should escape ~ as bash try to interpret it with python 2.6 as a command
<didrocks> pitti: working well, thanks! :)
<seb128> pitti, what gobject-introspection binary versions did you reject?
<seb128> pitti, the bug was in 0ubuntu2 and fixed in  0ubuntu3 I think
<seb128> those were maybe a leftover of the broken upload?
<pitti> 0.10.0-0ubuntu1
<pitti> 2010-12-23
<pitti> seb128: ah, indeed
<seb128> ok great
<pitti> brb
<pitti> I really like the new shotwell, BTW; spent last night until 2 am to tag all my photos, now that shotwell actually puts those into the .jpg :)
<pitti> kenvandine: did you forward gdk-pixbuf 065_gir_set_packages.patch to upstream anywhere? this should be fixed there, too
<huats> morning
<pitti> bonjour huats, bonne annee!
<seb128> lut huats, bonne annÃ©e !
<seb128> pitti, yeah, that and it handles videos now
<seb128> shotwell for the win ;-)
<pitti> seb128: ah, it didn't before? yes, works well now
<seb128> pitti, no it didn't before ;-)
<huats> bonne annÃ©e too seb128 and pitti !
<pitti> seb128: had it running for some 4 hours without a single crash; it just hangs a couple of times when the I/O from rewriting files gets too high
<seb128> didrocks, btw I had fun with compiz after you left ;-)
<pitti> but that's just a general linux misbehaviour
<seb128> right
<didrocks> seb128: I saw that! You played reverting my workaround :p
<seb128> didrocks, it breaks menus for some reason
<didrocks> seb128: that's evil, I don't make an upload at 3AM just for fun :p
<seb128> and I didn't get the hang
<seb128> didrocks, well there is no hang, that stacktrace of yours was a redhearing
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, you are lucky :)
<seb128> it does crash on start for everybody though
<seb128> in the unity session
<seb128> unity doesn't crash in the classic session
<seb128> it's really weird
<didrocks> about the menu, sam told me it was because of something else he already had
<didrocks> just the workaround make it more often
<seb128> like if you enable unity in ccsm in the classic session it works
<didrocks> yeah, it's really a redhearingâ¦
<seb128> but it crashes in the unity session
<seb128> confirmed by several people
<didrocks> that's why I fought it for 4 hours before deciding to go the workaround wayâ¦
 * Amaranth doesn't get a hang/crash when starting unity session
<seb128> I don't get the difference between classic with unity on and unity
<didrocks> Amaranth: try to remove the workaround in -0ubuntu3
<Amaranth> There shouldn't be a difference
<didrocks> Amaranth: and read the changelog
<Amaranth> didrocks: oh, right, someone put it back in
<Amaranth> bleh
<Amaranth> I never saw that hang though :)
<didrocks> it's using the profile environment variable
<didrocks> a different code path then
<seb128> it's not an hang
<seb128> it's a crash on start
<seb128> bug #691561
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 691561 in compiz (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "compiz crash on login to Unity desktop (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 263)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691561
<Amaranth> seb128: Sam wanted to know if we could get the patch for bug 691545 applied in ubuntu
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 691545 in libwnck (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "[natty] moving a window between workspaces changes its position (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691545
<seb128> ^ the bug I just pointed is the crash without the workaround
<Amaranth> yeah, not much info there
<seb128> there is a debug stacktrace
<seb128> Amaranth, the libwnck patch, seems fine to me, someone should add the patch to the bug and subscribe the sponsors
<seb128> or get didrocks to sponsor it for you ;-)
<didrocks> the gconf backend is just wrong from the design in any caseâ¦ I really hope in N+1 we can get the gsettings one
<seb128> waouh, I'm done with email catching up
<didrocks> I already answered to sam I can sponsor it once I've done with my emails
<seb128> well not with the bug boxes
<pitti> congrats seb128 :)
<didrocks> lucky you :)
<seb128> but everything else including debian and natty changes
<seb128> I might just declare bugmail bankrupcy
<Amaranth> oh oh oh, that bug is a dupe
<seb128> set them all as read
<didrocks> I think that's the perfect to tell "dx will handle unity bugs now" and mark the 700 emails marked as read :)
<Amaranth> crash in CompWindow::id()
<didrocks> time*
<seb128> Amaranth, known issue but no patch right?
<seb128> didrocks, 1982 emails in my launchpad box
<Amaranth> Which is because screen->windows somehow ends up containing an invalid pointer and unity doesn't make sure they're valid before calling the id method
<seb128> over 410 in my unity one
<seb128> Amaranth, so 2 bugs, one in compiz and unity not being careful enough?
<Amaranth> pretty much
<htorque> Amaranth, bug 685418 (i'm the reporter)? i don't get this spinning cursor anymore, though.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 685418 in unity "SIGSEGV in CompWindow::id() (affects: 4) (heat: 24)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685418
<Amaranth> screen->windows should never have an invalid CompWindow pointer in there but if unity checked for it the problem would go away
<didrocks> seb128: I'm just counting the unity one, not the "general/compiz/misc". It should be no more than 1200 thoughâ¦ I lose :)
<seb128> hey htorque, happy new year
<htorque> seb128, thanks, to you (and everyone else) too :)
<seb128> Amaranth, happy new year as well btw
<Amaranth> thanks, you as well
<didrocks> seb128: 410 only for unity? oh, that's because you are not in the dx team and don't have upstream one it seems
<didrocks> that's an evil place as well :)
<seb128> didrocks, right, I'm only in the unity team
<didrocks> happy new year Amaranth and htorque
<seb128> that's enough for my taste :p
<didrocks> :)
<mvo> hey Amaranth, happy new year!
<Amaranth> happy new year didrocks and mvo :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: btw, someone proposed to package -extra. I think you're not on it, right?
<Amaranth> didrocks: someone did it already
<dpm> didrocks, I've noticed that the "Ubuntu Classic Desktop" menu entry in gdm is not translatable (or at least I could not find the translation). Do you happen to know where it comes from?
<pitti> seb128, rodrigo_: do you think we should have libgnomekbd3 in natty, similar to gnome-desktop and gtk?
<didrocks> dpm: oh, I maybe didn't add it to the POTFILE
<seb128> pitti, we can't
<seb128> pitti, it's not versioned
<rodrigo_> pitti, what seb128 says
<seb128> pitti, the binaries and images etc don't have a versioned dir or name
<didrocks> Amaranth: ok, it's the same person, it's just that I had no Internet during the holidays and was catching up today
<pitti> seb128: we have abi 4, PPA has ABI 7?
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok
<didrocks> dpm: I'll check, thanks
<seb128> pitti, well it only has 3 rdepends which need to be upload together anyway
<dpm> didrocks, thank you :)
<pitti> seb128: and libgnomekbd 2.91 won't work with gnome 2.30?
<seb128> g-s-d g-s g-c-c
<seb128> pitti, it's using gtk3
<pitti> ok
<didrocks> Amaranth: so, once smspillaz will reorganize to have one tree and that we will split the packages, I'll rename and remove "fusion" in the name, agreed?
<pitti> seb128: thanks for the heads-up; I just wondered because I remembered that we said "have the libraries, but not the apps"
<seb128> pitti, there is nothing to win to update, as said only 3 rdepends
<Amaranth> didrocks: sounds good
<seb128> pitti, no worry, yeah that's still the story when possible
<pitti> seb128: would make it easier (or possible) to build gtk3 stuff on natty
 * Amaranth wanted to use the new 3.0 support for multiple tarballs in one source package to do that
<seb128> pitti, I'm pondering rolling back gtk3 out of the CD
<didrocks> Amaranth: I think smspillaz wanted to only make one tarball with everything in it. But I'll check. Yeah, source 3 will be nice. Not sure if we can push the lp team for daily builds
<pitti> seb128: was it just me (apport, language-selector) who pulled it in?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> pitti, that's a topic for the rally though I guess, will be either to get mterry and robert_ancell in the discussion
<seb128> but since we will not likely update any GNOME component in natty we could as well roll back gtk3 from the cd
<seb128> if you could use gtk2 stack for apport and l-s
<xclaesse> seb128, oh, no GTK3 for natty? :(
<pitti> seb128: hm, in theory we should even be able to use g-i with gtk2?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> if you don't need any new api
<seb128> xclaesse, well it's in natty but maybe not on the default installation
<seb128> xclaesse, it will still be maintained in main and uptodate
<pitti> seb128: not really; I ported to some GTK3isms, but shouldn't be too hard to support both
 * xclaesse hoped empathy3 would be on natty 
<seb128> it will be in the gnome3 ppa
<didrocks> dpm: confirmed, it was just missing from the POTFILES.in, do you have a bug report about it?
<seb128> it's not really possible to bring one part of GNOME3 without everything
<pitti> seb128: it's a lot more than apport and l-s, though
<pitti> seb128: check sudo apt-get purge libgtk3.0-0 on a live system
<xclaesse> seb128, sure it is everything or nothing... but hoped it would be everything :P
<xclaesse> but I can perfectly understand it is risky
<seb128> right, it's risky
<dpm> didrocks, I don't have a bug report because I did not know against which package to file it. If you need one, I'll be more than happy to do it
<seb128> we will probably have a better experience for users with the ppa
<xclaesse> tbh I won't believe in GNOME3 into GTK 3.0 is released
<seb128> since it means we will be able to update things after the natty freeze
<didrocks> dpm: no, it's not needed. It was just to close it in case :)
<xclaesse> s/into/until/
<pitti> seb128: hm, libcanberra-gtk0 depends on gtk3; that looks like a bug? (only libcanberra3-gtk-0 sohuld)
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<pitti> seb128: and mousetweaks; the rest is transitive dependencies
<seb128> I didn't check this one but should be easy enough to downgrade the version if needed
<seb128> but let's discuss it next week
<pitti> ack
<dpm> didrocks, great, thanks. So once fixed, which package should I check out to find the string? Was it gdm?
<seb128> it just feels like natty is a short target for GNOME3
<seb128> GNOME3 is still changing a lot and breaking
<didrocks> dpm: no, it's in gnome-session
<didrocks> dpm: I just pushed the bzr branch right now, will upload it with other change later this week, maybe
<seb128> it's not likely we will manage to get a great GNOME3 this cycle, upstream and distro work speaking
<pitti> seb128: just as a heads-up, I'm currently investigating how much effort it is to separately package the g-c-c 3 user admin portion for natty, to replace gnome-system-tools
<dpm> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> dpm: yw :)
<pitti> seb128: if we drop gtk3, then this will be postponed as well
<pitti> seb128: it's not a biggie, as we already keep a lot of perl for apparmor, g-s-t doesn't take that much extra space
<seb128> pitti, would probably be easier to package the standalone version fedora was using
<pitti> seb128: YM system-config-user? no, that was too crackful
<seb128> no, the new user admin
<seb128> they wrote it as a standalone software first
<seb128> they are using it for one or two cycle
<seb128> well, what is in gcc3 now
<pitti> seb128: ah; so it wouldn't bee too much of an UI shift for users?
<seb128> I didn't try both versions so I can't really say
<seb128> it seems like we could just stay away from that work until next cycle though
<rodrigo_> the standalone version is a bit out of date, but maybe it might work
<pitti> seb128: ok; I won't waste too much time on it; it's a WI of mine, but since the whole "remove perl" idea is pretty much moot due to apparmor..
<seb128> ok
<pitti> Laney: "Investigate areas for banshee diet, notably splitting out less used plugins and dropping sqlite2 dependency" -> looks like this already happened to some degree?
<pitti> mvo: we already talked a while ago about dropping srcpkgcache.bin by default; I didn't notice any problem with that, but you had some concerns back then
<pitti> MacSlow: gesundes Neues! how are you?
<Laney> pitti: yes, sorry forgot about that â should be alright now
<Laney> banshee itself needs a quick MIR review, but from my POV it should be good to seed
<pitti> Laney: cool, thanks
<pitti> Laney: so this can be set to "DONE"?
<Laney> yep
<pitti> Laney: thanks muchly
<Laney> np
<MacSlow> pitti, Dir ebenfalls... healthy again... despite the nasty cold weather
<pitti> MacSlow: ah, good to hear
<MacSlow> pitti, only the trip to the south of spain didn't work... since I got a nasty flu at the start of the vacation
<geser> is it expected that I've to send a SIGHUP to gnome-panel after login to make it visible in the "classic" gnome desktop?
<pitti> not here; although I get all indicators crashing and have to reload them
<geser> hmm
<geser> for me the panel is "not there" after login (but ps aux lists gnome-panel), after "kill -1" the gnome-panel it slides in with all applets
<geser> I use the OSS radeon driver if it makes a difference (so metacity gets used for WM)
<didrocks> geser: did you just try to click on it rather than sending the SIGHUP?
<geser> click on the free space where the panel should be?
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> it's just a reparenting issue making compiz not showing it IIRC
<pitti> MacSlow: ah, I got notify-osd to build on natty; I created https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/notify-osd/link-gcc-4.5/+merge/45025
<geser> didrocks: I've restarted my computer to reproduce it; nothing happens when I click on the space where the panel should be (and I've no compiz process running, only metacity)
<pitti> MacSlow: just in case someone else complains (some other folks were trying that as well)
<MacSlow> pitti, ok... I've to complete the merge of a few patches.
<geser> didrocks: anything else I should try before I kill it?
<MacSlow> pitti, have not compiled it yet since I moved to natty
<pitti> MacSlow: should be an easy one
<pitti> MacSlow: I'll cherrypick it to the Ubuntu package for now and upload
<didrocks> geser: no, really, you can kill it. that's weirdâ¦ your default windowmanager is compiz or metacity?
<MacSlow> pitti, ok... thanks for the heads up
<geser> didrocks: how can I check it? I've selected the classic desktop in gdm and use auto-login (I had trouble to get fglrx, unity and dual-screen to work so I went back to radeon and classic desktop)
<didrocks> geser: gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default
<geser> didrocks: /usr/bin/metacity
<didrocks> geser: ok, so your issue is different from compiz one. compiz isn't run at all on your machine (even not fallbacking in metacity)
<didrocks> geser: just in case: gconftool-2 --get /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager
<geser> didrocks: compiz
<didrocks> geser: oh ok, sorry, I misread the script then, compiz runs (the other key is deprecated) and then fallback to metacity
<didrocks> something wrong seems to happens thoughâ¦
<didrocks> to mimic that, I'll retry on a virtualbox without guest additions
<didrocks> oh, just a test, if you metacity --replace, what happens?
<geser> didrocks: should I unset my default wm value to get the default? (this system got installed several releases ago and I don't remember every change I once did in the past)
<didrocks> geser: well, the default is gnome-wm and it will finally try to run compiz, so same effect, don't bother
<didrocks> just if you can make the other test, it will helps
<didrocks> help*
<geser> didrocks: my running gnome-terminals flicker shortly but still now gnome-panel (but many warnings from metacity in the terminal)
<didrocks> hum, ok, not related to bad reparenting then. I have no clue for now :( I'll have a try in a virtualbox
<pitti> seb128: heads-up: I renamed the various "lpbindings" directories on lillypilly to "*.disabled", as lillypilly got upgraded to lucid; should be recent enough now
<pitti> seb128: and using the local one causes tons of python warnings and cron spam
<seb128> pitti, thanks, I noticed that as well
<seb128> pitti, I just ran into that a few minutes ago while trying to figure why the versions page was outdated
<pitti> I also get crashes
<pitti>   File "/home/platform/desktop/versions/lpbinding/launchpadlib/httplib2/__init__.py", line 736, in connect
<pitti>     sock.settimeout(self.timeout)
<pitti>   File "<string>", line 1, in settimeout
<pitti> TypeError: a float is required
<pitti> seb128: do you get that, too?
<seb128> that's the same crash version has
<seb128> yes
<nessita> hello everyone!
<seb128> hey nessita, happy new year!
<seb128> how are you?
<Shred00> how can i tell if my .bzr checkout is from "maverick" or "maverick-updates"?
<pitti> hey nessita, how are you?
<nessita> seb128:  happy new year to you too! :-)
<nessita> pitti: pretty pretty good! you?
<didrocks> happy new year nessita :)
<nessita> didrocks: thanks! happy new year for you as well
<pitti> seb128: hm, when I run versions manually, I get an LP auth dialog; is the credential stored in lpbinding/?
<seb128> pitti, no
<pitti> anyway, working now
<pitti> (the auth bit)
<pitti> let's see how far it gets
<seb128> pitti, it should be in .launchpadlib
<pitti> how long does this usually run?
<seb128> in the user dir
<seb128> 3 minutes
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html looks ok to you?
<seb128> pitti, ok, I was wrong
<seb128> versions.py:lp_cred = os.path.abspath('./lpbinding/ubuntu-desktop-cred')
<pitti> no error
<seb128> pitti, yes, it's fine
<pitti> seb128: ok, it created lpbinding with the cookie and cache
<seb128> pitti, so the credential was in lpbinding/ubuntu-desktop-cred
<pitti> I gave it "read public", so should be ok
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> /build/buildd/notify-osd-0.9.29/./configure: line 2823: GNOME_COMMON_INIT: command not found
<pitti> that's what I get on the buildds when I enable dh_autoreconf
<pitti> probably a missing build dep
<pitti> does that ring a bell for anyone?
 * pitti -> lunch, bbl
<seb128> pitti, you need to bd on gnome-common
<cyphermox> good morning!!
<didrocks> hey cyphermox! happy new year :)
<cyphermox> hey didrocks! same to you :)
<cyphermox> while I have your attention... I'm struggling with a unity hack :)
<didrocks> struggling, litterally? :)
<rodrigo_> bbiab
<bcurtiswx> Happy new year to all.  Off to work I go
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<nessita> pitti: ping
<pitti> hey nessita
<nessita> pitti: hey, I can't find the chat log were you (and some others) talked about dropping a package (evolution-couchdb I think?) from the CD, and letting the Ubuntu One Control Panel install it if needed. Would you have that piece of info available somewhere? I want to check that what I just said is correct or not
<nessita> s/were/where/
<pitti> nessita: I think it was spread over phone calls and some private mails, so I'm afraid I can't point to it
<pitti> nessita: it's one item in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/performance-desktop-n-install-footprint, though
<nessita> pitti: oh, ok. Any idea who is best to ask about that?
<seb128> it was discussing in a team meeting as well iirc
<seb128> nessita, jasoncwarner
<seb128> he has been in the discussions about that and should be able to point you to notes or people concerned by it
<nessita> seb128: right, thanks. Though I think I just found the piece of info I was looking for: "If we still need more space, drop evolution-couchdb from default install, which drops couchdb and erlang (6.7 MB)If we drop evo-couchdb, install evolution-couchdb when enabling it in the U1 control panel"
<seb128> nessita, ok, feel free to ask if you want details
<seb128> I think the item changed slightly
<nessita> seb128, pitti: I already proposed a branch where the u1cp installs evo-couchdb if not present. Shall I let him know?
<pitti> nessita: oh, sweet! please do
<seb128> nessita, yes please do
<pitti> nessita: that's something I planned to look into during the rallye, but seems you are way ahead of us then :)
<seb128> nessita, I think the plan is to drop it from the CD anyway, having extra translations for example instead would be a better deal for users
<nessita> pitti: I'm trying to gain space on the CD for the control panel itself :-D
<seb128> if we can easily install things on demand
<pitti> nessita: but landing this branch makes sense either way, both for people who uninstalled it and want it back, for custom installs, and derivatives
<nessita> pitti: right
<pitti> right, especially for services which need network anyway, like U1
<pitti> it just must be discoverable and easy to install what's needed
<pitti> fortunately aptdaemon makes that really nice these days
 * pitti hugs mvo and glatzor
<nessita> indeed, I used aptdaemon for the implementation and it went really well
 * nessita hugs too
<pitti> seb128: two more megabytes on i386, and we can put back French!
<seb128> pitti, waouh!
<nessita> pitti: we need room for the control panel!
<ari-tczew> pitti: I saw that you've added autoreconf support to notify-osd. I'm doing the same with lxpanel, but it built fail. can you help me?
<pitti> ari-tczew: you've got a lot?
<pitti> ari-tczew: sorry, "log"
<ari-tczew> pitti: yeah, I'm sending on pastebin
 * didrocks hugs pitti for French being back :)
<pitti> didrocks: it's not yet..
<ari-tczew> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/549826/
<kenvandine> happy new year everyone
<didrocks> pitti: it's just a "persuasive" hug :)
<didrocks> hey kenvandine, happy new year
<pitti> hey kenvandine, happy new year!
<pitti> ari-tczew: "config.status:2185: error: po/Makefile.in.in was not created by intltoolize" -- hm, haven't seen that yet; does it work locally?
<ari-tczew> pitti: dunno, I'm not familiar :( how can I check it?
<pitti> ari-tczew: I mean, is that from the Launchpad builders, or a local build?
<ari-tczew> pitti: pbuilder on my desktop
<Amaranth> hmm, I have a feeling unity-panel-service just crashed but i didn't get an apport dialog
<Amaranth> all my windows got their menus back and my indicators reloaded
<pitti> ari-tczew: so, presumably a simple autoreconf isn't enough, and you perhaps need gnome-autogen.sh?
<pitti> ari-tczew: (this is all pretty black magic to me, too..)
<pitti> Amaranth: something recent in ls -l /var/crash/ ?
<didrocks> Amaranth: that can happen if you have another user crash in /var/crash/.
<Amaranth> pitti: nope, nothing at all in there
<ari-tczew> pitti: dunno. previous package had 99* patch for autoreconf. Now I'd like to drop it and support by debian/rules.
<pitti> Amaranth: did you enable apport in /etc/default/apport ?
 * glatzor hugs happy aptdaemon users nessita and pitti :)
<glatzor> servus!
<Amaranth> bah, enabled=0
<mvo> hey glatzor
<glatzor> hey mvo !
<mvo> glatzor: happy new year!
<glatzor> happy new year!
<Amaranth> I thought that automatically flipped when using a development version
<pitti> Amaranth: I think we'll enable it by default in alpha-2
 * bcurtiswx_ waves to room
<pitti> hey bcurtiswx_
<bcurtiswx_> hey pitti
<didrocks> hey bcurtiswx_
<bcurtiswx_> hey didrocks :)
<bcurtiswx_> happy new year to everyone
<didrocks> happy new year to you too :)
<seb128> pitti, the error you listed before is an autopoint thing, didrocks and mterry knows about it
<seb128> iirc
<seb128> hey bcurtiswx, happy new year!
<bcurtiswx_> hey seb128, thx :)
<pitti> ari-tczew: so perhaps try adding an "autopoint" build dependency as a first try?
<mterry> pitti, yeah, if you specify AUTOPOINT=true at the top of debian/rules
<mterry> pitti, you can avoid running autopoint and screwing up po/Makefile.in.in
<ari-tczew> pitti: it is
<ari-tczew> mterry: trying
<mterry> ari-tczew, oh sorry, thought pitti was the stuck one  :)
<pitti> mterry: thanks anyway, though! good to know
<pitti> mterry: and happy new year! had some nice holidays?
<mterry> pitti, yeah!  Lots of food  :)
<ari-tczew> mterry: didn't help :(
<mterry> ari-tczew, really?  hmm
<seb128> hey mterry, happy new year!
<mterry> ari-tczew, looking at anjuta (in which I dealt with this bug), I put "export AUTOPOINT = true" at the very top of debian/rules (right below #!/usr/bin/make line)
<mterry> seb128, hi!
<ari-tczew> mterry: now another FTBFS. dh_autoreconf: autoreconf -f -i returned exit code 2
<mterry> ari-tczew, I've not seen that error.  Maybe start with a fresh directory?
<ari-tczew> mterry: fresh directory? how? I'm dealing in pbuilder
<mterry> ari-tczew, OK, then forget fresh directory idea  :)
<mterry> ari-tczew, there is no other message?  Exit code 2 isn't much to go on
<Laney> mterry: hey, happy new year
<Laney> as a Christmas present to you, Banshee is ready to review
<Laney> :)
<mterry> Laney, :)  I believe that's on asac's plate
<Laney> it is? ok
<mterry> I did the dependencies for ya though!
<mterry> :)
<Laney> upstream are asking about it so i'd appreciate reviews!
<Laney> you did, thanks
<ari-tczew> mterry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/549834/
<mterry> ari-tczew, it looks like you included one of the quote marks in at the end of the export line
<Laney> asac: ^^^^^^^ could you add MIR reviewing banshee to your queue please
<Laney> :)
<pitti> mvo: we already talked a while ago about dropping srcpkgcache.bin by default; I
<pitti>  didn't notice any problem with that, but you had some concerns back then
<mvo> pitti: I briefly talked about this with donkult, he played with that but said it did slow down stuff
<pitti> mvo: which stuff?
<mvo> pitti: like tab completion even breaks, I have not tried it independantly
<mvo> pitti: and general all apt-cache releated stuff
<pitti> mvo: I thought that used pkgcache.bin, not srcpkgcache?
<mvo> pitti: right but pkgcache.bin is outdated there is no srcpkgcache to use as a template to build a new pkgcache.bin
<pitti> mvo: ok, so we'll leave it on, and documented on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReducingDiskFootprint
<pitti> mvo: thanks for checking!
<mvo> pitti: I would suggest keeping it and if speed does not matter, then removing both
<mvo> pitti: but I will talk to donkult again (and look at the source) to see why we actually need them both, i'm not sure that this is still a valid design nowdays (in 2011 ;)
<pitti> mvo: it does seem to be a lot of duplicated caching indeed
<ari-tczew> mterry: thanks!!!!
<mterry> ari-tczew, it works?  hot
<ari-tczew> mterry: however, dunno why, during build my PC has been crashed :P
<ari-tczew> mterry: yes, It works!
<mterry> ari-tczew, not my fault!  ;)
<ari-tczew> mterry: yes I'm kidding
<mterry> phew  :)
<ari-tczew> btw guys are you affected by bug in bzr?
<ari-tczew> on natty
<pitti> ari-tczew: if you do lp:... addresses
<pitti> ari-tczew: pythohn2.6 /usr/bin/bzr ...
<pitti> -h
<ari-tczew> pitti: MHM, cdbs has suggested it on bug 693880
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 693880 in bzr (Debian) (and 3 other projects) "_ReportingFileSocket.readline lacks size argument (affects: 29) (dups: 10) (heat: 160)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693880
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pitti, seems the cron job on people is not running?
<pitti> seb128: oh? should be
<seb128> neither the wi tracker nor versions got updated since your manual run
<pitti> WI tracker works fine
<seb128> hum
<seb128> are you sure?
<pitti> yes
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/
<pitti> I didn't run the WI tracker manually
<pitti> but it finally updated after lunch
<seb128> canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-2.html	03-Jan-2011 14:35 	46K	
<seb128> shouldn't it run every hour?
<pitti> it's running now
<pitti> seb128: that was 45 mins ago :)
<mvo> pitti: btw, I recently did a natty install and there was no /var/crash, what is creating it these days ?
<pitti> mvo: /etc/init/apport.conf, when enabled
<seb128> pitti, hum, ok, so it's only versions
<seb128> "HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized"
<seb128> hum no, that's an old emaikl
<seb128> email
<pitti> uh? I ran it manually just fine
<seb128> well it didn't update since
<seb128> but there is no error either
<seb128> doh, it did
<seb128> pitti, ignore me
<pitti> ok :) was about to check it
<mvo> pitti: aha, nice, thanks
<seb128> the clock on those is one hour off compared to us
<pitti> yes, British time
<seb128> stupid timezones :p
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, empathy patches for the indicator and LP integration are all screwed up still and I wouldn't know how to fix them.  When you get a moment today I'd like to chat with you about it.
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, sure
<kenvandine> got a bzr branch ?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, yes I'm just about to push to it, one sec
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.4.3
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, it built from source fine (with the exception of disabling webkit temporarily), so it's something with our patches that's causing it to fail
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, you'll need the gnome3 PPA
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, ug
<kenvandine> paste me the build log :)
<mvo> seb128: I merged your branch, many thanks. if you don't mind, could you give it a quick test run again before I upload? I modified it a little bit along the way
<mvo> seb128: cleaning up some of the other cruft that it accumulated over the time
<seb128> mvo, sure, just running from trunk?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, haha, sure.  let me run it again.  It'll be a few minutes.  bzr bd > buildlog.txt ?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, just copy the end of the output
<kenvandine> where the failure is
<bcurtiswx_> OK
<seb128> hey kenvandine, happy new year
<kenvandine> hey seb128, happy new year!
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, there is a.build with the log in build-area after the build
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, thanks, i did not know that
<mvo> seb128: yep
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/549861/
 * kenvandine looks
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, ok, looks like part of the patch is missing
<dpm> pitti, quick question someone has asked me and I could not answer: at the technical level, why are the -en language packs necessary at all (except for providing variants such as en_UK and such)?
<dpm> I mean, why are they always installed?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, which patch and missing?
<kenvandine> the indicator patch
<didrocks> oh "nice": if you have both gir1.2-gtk-2.0 and gir1.2-gtk-3.0 installed and try repository.require("Gtk", "2.0"), you get:
<didrocks> gi.RepositoryError: Requiring namespace 'Gtk' version '2.0', but '3.0' is already loaded
<didrocks> pitti: any idea? ^^
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, but looking at your branch, it looks like the patch is complete
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, the patches all get pushed in fine
<kenvandine> i am looking
<didrocks> maybe, we should load gtk before webkit
<mterry> didrocks, this isn't helpful, but PyGI folks have told me that Gtk 2.0 is specifically not guaranteed to work and likely is broken
<didrocks> mterry: that's the kind of news which are good for starting a new year, thanks! :)
<didrocks> ok, then, having the two binary packages doesn't make sense :/
<aquarius> so if I'm writing a Python program which is using Gtk and Webkit, and I want Gtk 2, I should just use the old-fashioned static bindings? I thought the whole point was to use all this beautiful g-i stuff?
<mterry> didrocks, it *might* work.  I haven't tried in a while.  But that was their response when I found issues with gtk2.0 & pygi
<didrocks> mterry: ok, thanks for the notice :)
<mterry> didrocks, but at the time, require() worked.  I think you're right, that something else is pulling in 3.0 before you are calling require()
<aquarius> didrocks, maybe I should just use the old-fashioned static bindings, then. I mean, the program's trivial anyway :)
<didrocks> aquarius: the good news is that you will have dep detection at least :) (try to postive) :)
<mterry> aquarius, yeah, old fashioned for gtk2 is my recommendation
<didrocks> be  positive*
<aquarius> didrocks, yeah, I like that. I was only using g-i because I thought That's What You're Supposed To Do These Days :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, i do need more of the build log, can you just get me the whole thing?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, yes.  kenvandine@ubuntu.com ?
<kenvandine> ken.vandine
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, i have your canonical one in auto complete.. lol.. that one ok?
<kenvandine> sure
<mterry> smspillaz, heyo.  Does an approval for a merge mean you want me to commit (I don't have write access) or is it part of a process where a branch needs (e.g.) 2 approvals?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, sent :)
<smspillaz> mterry: not sure, but I'll commit it in any case
<smspillaz> mterry: thanks for finding that :)
<didrocks> mterry: smspillaz: one is enough
<mterry> smspillaz, cool, thanks.  I really hate that bug
<mterry> :)
<smspillaz> mterry: I was worried that it was really NULL pointers in screen->windows () in which case I was going to be in a world of hurt
<mterry> smspillaz, heh
<asac> Laney: ok looking into it
<rodrigo_> my system is borked
<rodrigo_> pitti, you dist-upgrade'd today?
<pitti> rodrigo_: yes
<pitti> my morning exercise :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<rickspencer3> hey pitti, good afternoon ... no holiday today for you?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, happy new year!
<pitti> rickspencer3: no, two weeks were quite enough :)
<rickspencer3> Happy New Year to you!
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey, so, gwibber can't find the WebView module?
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3, happy new year
<kenvandine> yeah, known bug
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine!
<kenvandine> upgrade problem with python and webkit
<kenvandine> one sec
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I figured as much, is there a work around?
<bratsche> Happy New Year, desktop hackers!
<rickspencer3> hey bratsche
<pitti> hey bratsche, happy new year!
<didrocks> rickspencer3: try with python 2.6
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<didrocks> rickspencer3: we just saw something similar with aquarius some minutes ago
<rickspencer3> well, I think then other modules won't be found
<kenvandine> bug #688732
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 688732 in pywebkitgtk (Ubuntu) "package no longer has WebView attribute after transition to python 2.7 (affects: 24) (dups: 9) (heat: 331)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688732
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, aww beat me to it
<kenvandine> breaks miro too
<bratsche> It seems like bzr doesn't work well with Python 2.7 either.
<kenvandine> well, anything with webkit
<kenvandine> bratsche, yeah, gotta specify the full path
<aquarius> things to do: break every webkit/python program that's ever existed. Backwards compatibility ftw, not. :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<bcurtiswx_> bratsche, balil has a patch for it.. i forget where it is tho
<rickspencer3> $sudo rm -rf /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/webkit/
<kenvandine> bug #693880
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 693880 in bzr (Debian) (and 4 other projects) "_ReportingFileSocket.readline lacks size argument (affects: 31) (dups: 11) (heat: 176)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693880
<rickspencer3> seems a bit brute force, but if works, I'll take it ;)
<bratsche> bcurtiswx_: For now I got it working by just doing "/usr/bin/python2.6 /usr/bin/bzr ..."
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, it doesn't happen on new installs
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, found your build failure... part of that libindicate patch isn't applying
<kenvandine> for src/Makefile.am
<kenvandine> not sure why though, it is clearly in the patch
<kenvandine> but not ending up in the source tree
<seb128> no way
<seb128> it might end up in the wrong directory though
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, this is where idk what i'd do
<seb128> what is in the diff there?
<seb128> what dir is being listed?
<kenvandine> dir looks right
<kenvandine> and diffstat isn't showing the changes
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, i am fixing :)
<rickspencer3> bratsche, add pixbuf_add_alpha just adds a color to be an alpha channel, a color that will be transparent, I want to make whole images translucent
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, what (in general) are you doing.. so I know what to do in the future
<bcurtiswx_> and how would I know from that build log that the patch wasn't applying fully
<kenvandine> i am just manually merging the changes i see in the patch to the source and i'll create a new patch
<kenvandine> the build log failed to link
<seb128> where is the source you work on?
<kenvandine> it wasn't finding symbols
<bratsche> rickspencer3: Okay, I didn't know what you meant then I guess.
<kenvandine> seb128, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.4.3/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/20_libindicate.patch
<rickspencer3> bratsche, it's hard to discuss and Google for, because interchange "opacity", "translucent", "alpha", "transparency", etc...
<bratsche> heh, yeah.
<kenvandine> seb128, look at src/Makefile.am in there
<rickspencer3> anyway, I thought of maybe a better way ... I could add an alpha channel of a certain color, and then composite the image with that color
<kenvandine> everything from line 159 down aren't making it in the patched src/Makefile.am
<bratsche> rickspencer3: Oh, I get it.. so you're trying to apply the same alpha value all over the image?
<rickspencer3> bratsche, right
<bratsche> rickspencer3: Makes sense.  Yeah, surprising that there isn't a simpler way to do that.
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, seb128: i added the @@ -121,5 +124,8 @@ section because (i forget who) mentioned those might need to end up there
<bcurtiswx_> might have been rickspencer3
<bratsche> rickspencer3: It would be a simple API to add though.
<rickspencer3> bratsche, well, then, by all means!
<rickspencer3> :)
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, so it was probably bad patch writing by me :(
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, did you edit the patch by hand?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yes and pushed it with quilt and refreshed it and committed it to the bzr
<bcurtiswx_> all went OK there
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, ah... hand editting is usually a bad idea :)
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, what is the appropriate way then?
<bratsche> rickspencer3: btw, I thought you might be into this - http://www.npr.org/2011/01/03/132436422/first-listen-the-decemberists-the-king-is-dead
 * bcurtiswx_ is still learning proper practices
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, quilt push, edit the file you want to edit and quilt refresh
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, but don't edit the patch directly ?
<seb128> you can if you know what you are doing
<seb128> it's easy to screw a patch when editing it manually
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK, thought I did, had a quick lesson on what everything meant.  I will just push it , edit the file (not the patch) and refresh. Thx :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, there is another part of your change that worries me
<kenvandine> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.4.3/revision/158
<kenvandine> starting at line 1337
<kenvandine> you removed a bunch of unrefs
<kenvandine> and more
<kenvandine> well, one unref
<kenvandine> and where the indicator is created
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, hum.  even scarier for me.  I don't remember touching that section of code
<kenvandine> it changed in your latest revision
<seb128> well seems the revision before is the one where you did manual editing in the patch
<seb128> so if the format is corrupted it might have leaded to other issues on the refresh
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, probably best to revert that last revision, undo the manual editing and fix it again
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, well the edits to the non 20_libindicate were just changes in the upstream code, so I had to tell the patch how to re-identify where to apply the patch
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, is there a better way to do that than manual patch editing ?
<bcurtiswx_> how do I revert in bzr
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, not sure how you did the editing
<seb128> usual way is quilt -f patch
<seb128> edit the file to reapply the change
<seb128> refresh
<asac> seb128: Laney: is banshee going to replace rhythmbox?
<seb128> asac, yes
<seb128> asac, well it's going to be the default player for new installs, we will not replace on upgrade
<asac> seb128: just UNE or everywhere now?
<seb128> asac, there is no UNE, we only have 1 edition
<asac> seb128: ok ... are you guys sure about this? or is it just a mood that might change end of cycle? ;) after all its mono and thats a big PITA :/
<seb128> we are sure about it for this cycle
<seb128> we can revisit if rhythmbox catches up, but right now banshee has lot of manpower compared to rb
<asac> seb128: is there proper indicator support for banshee?
<seb128> sort of
<seb128> we don't have an indicators for players anymore
<seb128> they just talk mpris over dbus
<jcastro> there's full sound menu support (just kind of buggy for me right now)
<seb128> but banshee does that and better than rb (support playlists)
<asac> ok approved, milestoned the arm bug and dropping out
<Laney> thanks asac
<Laney> please seed! yay!
<jcastro> \o/
<asac> np
<jcastro> Laney: you are legend.
<jcastro> Laney: what did the space swap end up costing? iirc last I looked at it it was within a meg or two?
<Laney> haven't crunched it yet, but something like that
<seb128> asac, thanks!
<dobey> pitti: still around?
<bcurtiswx_> "<seb128> usual way is quilt -f patch, edit file to reapply, refresh".. so when a patch file fails because of an upstream function rename, would it be better to edit the patch directly in this case, since the patch doesn't apply ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, usually editing a name or a line is fine, editing the magic numbers and the patch format is not as easy
<czajkowski> kenvandine: you by any chance back from holidays ?
<kenvandine> czajkowski, yup
<kenvandine> czajkowski, happy new year :)
<dobey> i guess pitti is not still around
<czajkowski> kenvandine: welcome back :)
<kenvandine> thx :)
 * bryceh waves
<kenvandine> hey bryceh
<kenvandine> czajkowski, what can i do for you?
<Amaranth> mterry: so the CompWindow::id() crash was actually a bug in unity then?
<mterry> Amaranth, seems that way
<czajkowski> kenvandine: and sure as you're here I've a gwibber question for you :) on the special laptop, when I've my multi column up and running gwibber sounds like it's about to take off eating CPU and in the last 2 weeks very slow to update columns, waiting almost an hour now for it to update main tweets.
<Amaranth> mterry: phew, was worried smspillaz would wait until the rally and make me help figure out why screen->windows was getting NULLs :)
<mterry> Amaranth, :)
<kenvandine> czajkowski, ugh... humm
<kenvandine> czajkowski, can you send me the sqlite db?
<czajkowski> kenvandine: last time I updated this machine was about 3-4 wks ago before xmas and not used it much over the hols so only really noticed how bad it was over the last 2 days
<kenvandine> ~/.config/gwibber/gwibber.sqlite
<kenvandine> and the log
<kenvandine> ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
<kenvandine> czajkowski, also... FYI, identi.ca is broken... for everyone
<kenvandine> they changes the SSL cert
<dobey> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> s/changes/changed
<kenvandine> hey dobey
<czajkowski> kenvandine: ahh ok, but this was just general twitter.  I also don't seem to be able to get the sqlite to open
<dobey> kenvandine: is there anything with new gwibber that cleans out the old desktopcouch dbs for gwibber?
<kenvandine> just email me the file
<kenvandine> ken.vandine@ubuntu.com
<czajkowski> ok
<kenvandine> dobey, doesn't clean it out
<dobey> :(
<dobey> kenvandine:
<dobey> grr
<dobey> sorry, bad linux
<dobey> kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/595100
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595100 in couchdb (Ubuntu) "~/.local/share/desktop-couch/.gwibber_messages_design stores too much space! (affects: 8) (heat: 40)" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> dobey, ugh... that sucks
<dobey> yes
<kenvandine> i complained when mine hit like 300M
<czajkowski> kenvandine: the .sqlite is to large to send
<dobey> sigh
<dobey> dear firefox
<dobey> STOP SCREWING UP MY SETTINGS
<pitti> hi dobey
<pitti> dobey: happy new year!
<czajkowski> oh I may have gotten it out via gmail
<seb128> pitti, oh, still there ;-)
<pitti> back from dinner, quickly (talking to my wife)
<seb128> pitti, is there any reason you didn't upload the gnome-desktop3 update from rodrigo?
<seb128> mterry, seems you screwed libcanberra in some way
<seb128> the gtk2 lib depends on the gtk3 one
<dobey> pitti: hey! i guess i can bug you in the morning. no need to upset the wife :)
<pitti> dobey: heh, ok
<mterry> seb128, hrm
<mterry> seb128, that does seem wrong
<pitti> seb128: there were some problems with it (patches need updates), he said he wanted to fix them
<seb128> indeed!
<pitti> ok, good night everyone then!
<seb128> pitti, oh ok, I saw that you merged in the vcs but didn't upload so I was wondering if that was an oversight
<seb128> 'night pitti!
<rickspencer3> good night pitti!
<pitti> seb128: right, I needed to do some adaptions and asked him to pull first
<czajkowski> kenvandine: thanks for looking at this btw
<mterry> seb128, indeed, libcanberra-gtk0 depends on libcanberra-gtk3-0
 * mterry investigates
<seb128> didrocks, could you comment on bug #696902?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 696902 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gnome-sessions new .desktop files missing from POTFILES.in (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696902
<seb128> the patch seems correct but I was not sure if sessions or strings were still to be updated or if you delayed translating those for a reason
<didrocks> seb128: I already fixed in the packaging branch
<seb128> didrocks, ok, so comment to say that :p
<seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> the other files aren't necessary
<didrocks> I'll, thanks seb128 :)
<seb128> 'ci
<seb128> ok, time for some sport and dinner
<seb128> bbl
<didrocks> see you seb128! enjoy
<dobey> how do i make firefox preserve my settings correctly now?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, was GtkWindow *window changed in GTK3 ?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.4.3 with errors http://paste.ubuntu.com/549960/
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, the code in question is in 31_really_raise_window.patch
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, i thought you had already fixed that one
<kenvandine> let me look at your branch
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, i went back fairly far
<kenvandine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/549969/
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, that is what you had done before
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, thanks.
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, np
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/549977/  i hope this is new enough
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, seems to me it's stuff with the indicator functions not getting recognized.. but it's different than before
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, looks like the same as before... when the Makefile.am wasn't updated
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, what would my next step be.  Is this a patching issue again?
<cyphermox> heading home, bbl.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-04
<Ganymede> Hello, I was thinking of installing Ubuntu 10.04 for some of our researchers as computer nodes. I want to install server so they will be supported for 5 years and they won't have to be touched after I leave. However, sometimes the researchers might want a desktop with vnc4server so I would have to install ubuntu-desktop. Will installing ubuntu-desktop on an Ubuntu server transform it into Ubuntu Desktop so that it would only have 3 years
<Ganymede>  of support?
<Ganymede> s/computer nodes/compute nodes/
<Ganymede> Hmm...I meant to ask in #ubuntu-server...
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<TheMuso> How was your break?
<pitti> hey TheMuso, happy new year!
<TheMuso> pitti: You too.,
<pitti> very relaxing indeed
<TheMuso> Good to hear.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso! happy new year :)
<TheMuso> didrocks: You too.
<pitti> argh, bummer - I sent the meeting reminder without waiting for Seb's reminder-reminder again
<pitti> didrocks: do you want me to do bryceh's compiz merge, or do you have other stuff to upload?
<didrocks> pitti: are you deprecating seb then? :)
<didrocks> pitti: I have other pending stuff to upload
<pitti> didrocks: ok, I'll just commit it to the branch then
<pitti> bryceh: btw, you should have push rights, too
<pitti> argh, he forgot the link, I'll comment on the MP
<didrocks> right, and let me check the xorg hook as well
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> good morning seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> seb128: quickly, remind me about the meeting reminder before you read mail
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti
<seb128> oh, meeting reminder reminder to remind, thanks pitti ;-)
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<pitti> good morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<rodrigo_> dbarth__, I just got a notification about a weekly a11y call, where is that?
<dbarth__> rodrigo_: hi
<dbarth__> i'm trying to find api and setup a skype conf call
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> dbarth__, he's not around irc, it seems
<dbarth__> right
<kklimonda> good morning
<rodrigo_> hey kklimonda
<kklimonda> hey rodrigo_, how was your christmas?
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, lots of days off, so great, yours?
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: it was pretty good, a little too cold though and I've barely managed to go back for new year's eve :)
<kklimonda> get*
<kklimonda> I've also managed to break my amazon account
<rodrigo_> crazy partiing on new year's eve?
<rodrigo_> pitti, I've just submitted g-c-c 2.91.4 to the gnome3 ppa, and this now works, as opposed to what we talked yesterday
<seb128> mvo, hey
<rodrigo_> pitti, seems it just needed a rebuild
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, broke it? how?
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: meh, I was home at 5am ;)
<rodrigo_> :)
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: I've managed to create two separate accounts with the single email address - one for the store, another for aws
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> mvo, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday but update-notifier doesn't work
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: now I'm trying to access s3 and I get weird errors - I've already managed to lock myself out of the aws account.. ;)
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, nice
<seb128> mvo, I see you rewrote everything I did, thanks for mentioning me in the changelog anyway :p
<mvo> seb128: oh - thats bad - what specifically?
<seb128> mvo, it does
<seb128> ** (update-notifier:4084): DEBUG: crashreport_check
<seb128> but report no crash
<seb128> where I've some in /var/crash
<seb128> it doesn't react if I touch one as well
<mvo> seb128: oh, odd. worked for me, let me try again.
<mvo> seb128: and I did not quite change every line, just a few (not because of your code but because of my old crufty code that was there before)
<huats> morning
<seb128> mvo, well you did things I pondered doing, like adding a debug-misc rather than dropping those g_print ;-)
<seb128> mvo, you are less lazy than me :p
<seb128> hey huats
<huats> hello seb128
<mvo> seb128: lol
<seb128> mvo, you replaced the g_spaw call by the one that let you send stdout to null as well which I was not sure was a win because of all the NULL arguments to set ;-)
<mvo> seb128: yeah, the stdlog stuff is a bit dubious, it gives a pointer to a file descriptior that then needs reading, I was not sure if there are no leaks (fd leaks) if that does not get closed properly so I thought it would be better to use the _close_stdout flag of gspawn
<mvo> and yes, NULL 10x times
<mvo> python default args ftw!
<seb128> mvo, hum
<seb128>    if (!gtk_status_icon_is_embedded (ta->tray_icon) &&
<seb128>        crashreports_found > 0 &&
<seb128>        !system_crashes) {
<seb128>       g_debug("unity handler");
<ubot2> seb128: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<seb128> ubot2, shut up you ;-)
<ubot2> Factoid 'shut up you ;-)' not found
<seb128> mvo, why the "!system_crashes"?
<mvo> seb128: well, if we omit that the use may get greeted with a gksu window, but I guess what we actually should do is to modify run_apport so that it spawns a dialog if it needs gksu or tweak apport to ask politely about that
<seb128> mvo, the patch the way I wrote it make the user crashes only to be reported
<mvo> seb128: i.e. the user logs in, u-n runs 60s later and suddenly there is a gksu window out of the blue
<seb128> mvo, well I added a similar "gtk_status_icon_is_embedded (ta->tray_icon)" in run_apport
<seb128> in my version
<seb128> which leaded to have the user crashes reported
<seb128> but the system ones ignored
<seb128> your variant makes everything ignored when there is a system crash
<seb128> which was what we had before already
<mvo> seb128: did that work? I don't think the code is clever enough, once there is one system crash it will still not launch it
<seb128> mvo, it did work, run_apport has a if, else
<seb128>    if (check_system_crashes()) {
<seb128> run with sudo
<seb128> else
<seb128> run
<seb128>  
<seb128> mvo, I did add a "if gtk_status_icon_is_embedded (ta->tray_icon)" in the first case
<seb128> like
<seb128> let me find my merge proposal, my local diff got overwriten when I pulled your update
<mvo> but check_system_crashes() will return TRUE if there is any system crash
<seb128> and?
<seb128> that just makes apport_run() to be called
<seb128> then you can check if there is a systray and no-op the call
<mvo> aha, I see now, indeed, my mistake
<seb128> to avoid spawning gksu
<mvo> I make up for this by adding a dialog "system crashes detected, do you want to report them", ok?
<seb128> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~seb128/update-notifier/unity-bug-reports/+merge/44049
<mvo> this way we get the best of both worlds, no gksu-in-your-face and still the ability to report it
<seb128> see the second snippet
<seb128> mvo, works for me, I was just lazy to do that ;-)
<mvo> seb128: fair enough , I broke it, I fix it
<seb128> mvo, that and you told me you wanted to redesign maybe update-notifier
<seb128> still not sure if it should be ported to an appindicator
<seb128> or the event handling should be splitted out or something
<mvo> seb128: i want to get rid of it entirely and replace it by upstart-session scripts
<seb128> well for now I guess the dialog will remove the need to figure what to do with the redesign
<mvo> seb128: but I see that we need something in the meantime unitl we get that support
<seb128> so yeah your dialog will fit the need until we get there
<mvo> ok, sounds good, I add that then
<seb128> mvo, do you know how likely we will ever get upstart session scripts?
<seb128> did you talk to keybuk about it?
<mvo> yes, he knows about it and I send him examples what is needed
<seb128> I know that was on the roadmap and upstart seem to get work again but not sure how much
<mvo> like events on file changes etc
<seb128> it's just that things were stalled for a while
<mvo> i know, I hope its getting better, no definite target dates though
<rodrigo_> anyone has any idea where to look for my openssh key problem (askpass password never shows up)
<seb128> rodrigo_, downgrade to gnome-keyring from natty?
<rodrigo_> hmm, yes, trying that
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw could you try to backport the g-c-c 3 preferred application code to natty?
<seb128> we will need that if we don't update to GNOME3
<seb128> since glib changed the way the handlers work
<mvo> seb128: hm, there is a problem, gtk_status_icon_is_embedded seems to return false if the icon is not visible, so it returns false on the gtk panel as well
<seb128> hum
<seb128> mvo, why is the icon not visible?
<rodrigo_> Tx4l4p4rt4
<seb128> mvo, well my patch was doing the check after "gtk_status_icon_set_visible(ta->tray_icon, TRUE);" for that reason
<seb128> rodrigo_, time to change your password it seems ;-)
<rodrigo_> Tx4l4p4rt4
<seb128> mvo, but you moved that to before the if for some reason
<mvo> seb128: aha, it seems like the problem is that the initial crashreport_check thing needs to run in a timeout_add
<seb128> mvo, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~seb128/update-notifier/unity-bug-reports/+merge/44049
<seb128> mvo, well, my patch worked in both GNOME and unity sessions...
<seb128> I tested it ;-)
<mvo> seb128: odd, let me look further
<seb128> mvo, well what you said is right
<seb128> it's just that you moved the check before the icon is set to visible
<seb128> if you put it back where it was in my merge request that should work
<rodrigo_> seb128, ugh
<seb128> rodrigo_, time to change your password it seems ;-)
<rodrigo_> yes, already changed
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you noticed you typed Tx4l4p4rt4 there twice?
<seb128> ok
<mvo> seb128: no luck here, at least on the initial start
<rodrigo_> I shouldn't blindly type it
<mvo> seb128: maybe some sort of race
<seb128> mvo, weird
<rodrigo_> the power manager or screensaver from gnome3 just dims the screen to black and never undims it, so was trying to guess where to type the password, and I got it wrong
<mvo> seb128: yep, the good old while (gtk_events_pending()) gtk_main_iteration(); fixes it
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> way to add hacks to hacks
<seb128> mvo, but do you still need a notification area if you do the dialog thing?
<mvo> seb128: hacks> yeah, makes me a bit unhappy - but now you see why I want to get rid of it :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> mvo, let me know if you need testing
<seb128> since I'm done with email catching up it should not take half a day today
<mvo> that is actually a good point, let me make it just honor the autolaunch gconf key instead
<rodrigo_> ok, hopefully last restart, brb
<mvo> seb128: could you please give r611 a go? it will just autolaunch now (if the gconf key is set). see debian/changelog. avoids hack-after-hack and is consistent with the u-m autolaunch behavior
<mvo> seb128: I go for lunch now
<mvo> seb128: thanks for your patience with this, I think the result is much better now after this discussion and the code iterations :)
<seb128> mvo, trying!
<seb128> ok.
<seb128> mvo, getting there but not still not right...
<seb128> if you have a system crash and cancel the submittion it doesn't ask if you want to report the user ones
<seb128> well rather if you cancel the dialog that ask you if you want to report it
<seb128> or the gksu prompt
<seb128> otherwise it works, you get the dialog etc under unity
<seb128> to reporting -> to report
<seb128> mvo, ^
<seb128> in the new string
<mvo> seb128: thanks! I fix the system-cancel thing as well now
<mvo> seb128: r613 should fix the problems you outlined, if it looks ok I will upload today
<seb128> mvo, ok, I just finished lunch, so grabbing some coffee and I will try that
<mvo> seb128: thanks, no rush :)
<seb128> re
<seb128> mvo, still not
<seb128> mvo, ignore me, seems to work
<seb128> it just doesn't in the case when you deny the sudo authentification but that's a corner case
<mvo> seb128: aha, indeed, good point
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<didrocks> cyphermox: hey, around?
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> didrocks, what's up?
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you have any bug/plan to work on getting the animation in the network indicator?
<cyphermox> bug no, plans yes
<didrocks> ok, just wanted to ensure it was on track :)
<cyphermox> my plan is to work on the animation and getting the icons back for signal strength *today*
<didrocks> I was puzzled by a wifi signal getting to 0 the last few days depsite iwscan was telling me
<didrocks> and finally, I found that was because the dhcp didn't get any more free ip to assign :/
<cyphermox> oh, right
<didrocks> so wrong diagnostic, it's only with my gf's lucid box that I discovered what was wrong :)
<cyphermox> ah
<didrocks> today? nice! :)
<cyphermox> I just need to fix my right click first ;)
<didrocks> no need for right click :p
<cyphermox> that's what you'd think ;)
<didrocks> hehe :)
<cyphermox> "menus are for restaurants"
<didrocks> exactly!
<cyphermox> ahh, unbroken :D
<mterry> seb128, I noticed glade-3 wasn't in the desktop set.  Is that desired?
<seb128> no
<seb128> you should ask cjwatson if he can fix that
<mterry> seb128, I can ask cjwatson
<mterry> yup, ok
<seb128> didrocks, the unity merge request you just did shows with conflicts
<seb128> well the launchpad diff has conflicts markers, not sure if that's true or a launchpad bug
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: oh? thanks for the notice. I branched yesterday evening, let's see if I can merge back
<didrocks> seiflotfy: fixed and pushed, thanks
<seiflotfy> huh
<seiflotfy> ?
<didrocks> oupss s/seiflotfy/seb128/
<didrocks> stupid weechat completion :)  sorry seiflotfy
<bcurtiswx_> good morning
<rodrigo_> hi bcurtiswx
<bcurtiswx_> rodrigo_, hi :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw did downgrading gnome-keyring fix your ssh issue?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, looking at fixing it in the g3 ppa
<seb128> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you see my question about the preferred application capplet backport btw?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, no, on the mailing list?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, on IRC earlier (or was it yesterday?)
<seb128> rodrigo_, I was wondering if it would be easy to backport the gcc3 code to 2.32?
<seb128> rodrigo_, since we updated glib and the handler system changed
<seb128> we will need to backport the new code if we don't go for GNOME3
<rodrigo_> well, porting the panels should be easy, without the shell even
<rodrigo_> there are already some GTK3isms in the code, so we'll need to see case by case
<rodrigo_> but I don't think it should be a lot of work
<rodrigo_> the preferred capplets also now uses gsettings
<rodrigo_> is that a problem?
<seb128> not sure
<seb128> let's keep that on the side until we sort what we decide to do with GNOME3
<rodrigo_> also, it uses the GAppInfo stuff for browsers and mail readers
<rodrigo_> so we'll need to make sure the browsers and mailers we ship support that
<seb128> rodrigo_, well that's what we need anyway
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<seb128> since gvfs is using that
<seb128> right now clicking on an url in a gtk application doesn't respect the default browser
<seb128> since glib,gvfs use the new system
<seb128> but the capplet write the old gconf key
<rodrigo_> right
<rodrigo_> about gnome3, gtk 3.0 should be released soon, so things should stabilize now
<seb128> nice
<rodrigo_> it's delayed though, afaik it was expected in Dec
<seb128> it was
<seb128> it starts being a tight schedule
<rodrigo_> seb128, have you seen any notice about the delay?
<seb128> no, was there any?
<rodrigo_> no, haven't seen any, that's why I ask
 * rodrigo_ asks
<rodrigo_> <mclasen> rodrigo: will do a 2.99 very soon
<seb128> rodrigo_, great
<Sarvatt> pitti: did you see they got you at the top here? http://www.flickr.com/photos/13825348@N03/sets/72157625280545063/ :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2010-December/msg00108.html
<pitti> Sarvatt: hah, thanks for digging these out
<pitti> Sarvatt: doesn't seem to have a record of our "Debian vs RedHat" Bowling, though :)
<seb128> ups
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<bcurtiswx_> how would I test in a build if "have_libindicate = 'yes' " is there an echo command in the build ? like $echo have_libindicate ?
<bcurtiswx_> that i can add in to test the value at certain points ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, if you still have the build dir read config.log
<seb128> or search for have_libindicate in the config.log
<bcurtiswx_> hmm, pattern not found at all
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, grep -i indicate config.log?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i used vim and did a /have_lindicate
<bcurtiswx_> well with a b
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.4.3/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/20_libindicate.patch#L21
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i believe that section is supposed to add a check for libindicate, but the config.log doesn't show have_libindicate at all
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, grep -i indicate config.log
<seb128> let me try
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, ok i'll do that though the vim with the / search is the same
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, hold on a sec
<bcurtiswx_> HAVE_LIBINDICATE_FALSE='#'    HAVE_LIBINDICATE_TRUE=''
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so it's on
<bcurtiswx_> the # means to ignore ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, well the value which is ='#' is ignored
<seb128> the one which is '' will be used
<seb128> so in your case HAVE_LIBINDICATE_TRUE=''
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK
<seb128> it's TRUE
<ronoc_> dbarth, had a kernel paging error with unity, cannot start machine !
<ronoc_> dbarth, trying to fsck right now
<dbarth> ronoc_: oops, nice one
<dbarth> ronoc_: is that with a stable kernel (ie indicating a hw problem), or a development version?
<ronoc_> dbarth, i did the upgrade this morning, was rebooting a few times after lunch to try to get around compiz, seems to be working now
<ronoc_> very very odd
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, do you still have build issues?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, do you need some help with those?
<ronoc_> i think i'm back in business
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, yes I do.  as far as I can tell it's something not recognizing the indicator functions
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, let me get you the build log that failed
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, ok, let me try
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, you'll need the GNOME3 PPA when building from my branch
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> well let me see if I see something wrong from the patch without building
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK let me give you something to work with, one sec
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, well I did checkout lp:~bcurtiswx/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-2.91.4.3
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, what error do you get?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, http://paste.ubuntu.com/550298/
<bcurtiswx_> seb128,  <kenvandine> looked like the CFLAGS stuff wasn't getting set right
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, but hes currently occupied
<kenvandine> seb128, looked like the same problem he had yesterday
<kenvandine> but i didn't get to look at it yet
<jasoncwarner> morning everyone :)
<kenvandine> hey jasoncwarner
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, kenvandine, but i reverted the changes and edited the patches without messing with magic numbers
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, hey! congrats on libgwibber, what's in this release?
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner
<pitti> oh, meeting time
<tremolux> 'morning jasoncwarner
<bcurtiswx_> oh, darn
<kenvandine> gir fixes, more gobject friendly and the new stream view widget
<jasoncwarner> pitti: sounds like a song :)
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, all the patched sections in 20_libindicate.patch I went and verified they made it into the files
<bcurtiswx_> they did
<pitti> bryceh, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter: meeting ping
<pitti> Chris Coulson seems to be offline
<mterry> heyo
<jasoncwarner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-01-04
<cyphermox> o/
 * bcurtiswx_ steps out of the way
<didrocks> pitti: he's marked as being on holidays
<tremolux> how-dee
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, let me check during the meeting and update you after that
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> hey jasoncwarner
<seb128> hey everybody
<rodrigo_> pitti, o/
<jasoncwarner> Alright...first things first...happy new year!
<jasoncwarner> :)
<rodrigo_> happy new year to all, yes :)
<didrocks> happy new year o/
<mterry> yay
<kenvandine> gonna be a great year!
<pitti> is that the year of the Linux desktop, or the next one? :-)
<rodrigo_> wasn't it 2010? :)
<jasoncwarner> Ok...jumping right in ...[TOPIC] Unity
<tkamppeter> hi
<didrocks> well, I haven't done the last release maybe seb128?
<seb128> didrocks, ?
<didrocks> I saw drag and drop on the launcher landed as a christmas gift :)
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK thx
<seb128> oh right it did
<didrocks> I didn't follow the rest of previous release, being on vacation. seb128 did it. Most of the team was on holidays the past two weeks as well and we will see on next Thursday release some little b
<didrocks> bug fixes
<jasoncwarner> well, seb128 and didrocks anything else? I know it has been some time :)
<seb128> sorry I'm out of context
<didrocks> also probably a new compiz snapshot coming this week
<seb128> was that the unity summary?
<seb128> I just read all the congrats from the new year but didn't notice any topic ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, yes
<seb128> ups
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> so new release got the dnd on the launcher back
<seb128> the places support didn't get in it
<seb128> we still have some race issues and stacking bugs affecting menus
<seb128> well we did trade off the menu stacking issue against a crash on start in the unity session
<jasoncwarner> :)
<seb128> crashes which doesn't- happen in the classic session with unity enable...
<seb128> yeah for races
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> the new version got improved support for wm decorations and titles in the bar
<seb128> there was some visual improvements as well I think
<seb128> that's about it
<seb128> then everybody was off for the end of year and the uk were still off yesterday
<jasoncwarner> any indication if we should expect stacking bug this week? and how about places landing...during Rally?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: seems we won't have it fixed this week
<didrocks> places landing are due to alpha2, so probably after Rally we will have something
<seb128> it's likely most of the work will wait next week
<seb128> this week will probably be mostly catchup after break, especially for people who were still on holidays yesterday
<seb128> we will probably not try to land an update just before everybody is travelling
<kenvandine> seb128, that is always so much fun though
<jasoncwarner> :)
<didrocks> well, Thursday's release at least, as everytime :)
<didrocks> if not too late
<seb128> well, it's up to didrocks and dx really, but I would think most work will happen next week
 * kenvandine ponders dbumenu gdbus upload friday :)
<jasoncwarner> sounds good...
<jasoncwarner> ok.
<seb128> kenvandine, you don't have to be in a plane for 10 hours, I don't care if you want to spend your saturday fixing :p
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> :-D
<seb128> kenvandine, you have no excuse and upload rights ;-)
<jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] Software Center
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> true
<tremolux> so, summary is on the wiki for Software Center
<tremolux> release just before holiday included a much more nicely integrated purchases flow, plus further startup time improvements
<jasoncwarner> tremolux: ok...I've got nothing more specific other than estimate on ratings and review servers being ready?
<jasoncwarner> Any indication?
<tremolux> jasoncwarner: yes, it should be this week
<jasoncwarner> wow...awesome!
<tremolux> we plan to have it up and ready for testing/dev during the rally
 * mterry writes ballot-stuffing bot
<tremolux> it's alpha
<tremolux> ;)
<jasoncwarner> saweet... :) very cool
<jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] Kubuntu
<jasoncwarner> Riddell, you around for Kubuntu update?
<jasoncwarner> seems not..which leaves [TOPIC] AOB
<mterry> Xorg?
<jasoncwarner> we usually hit that one during eastern edition, but if bryceh is around we can get an update.
<mterry> ah
<mterry> well, it's on the wiki
<seb128> it's for eastern now since all the xorg guys join that edition
<seb128> we don't have separate agendas for each editions
<jasoncwarner> I'll update page with eastern log later today.
<jasoncwarner> Any other business?
<jasoncwarner> very cool...remember to update wiki if you have not already.
<jasoncwarner> Happy new year and I guess we'll see each other in a less than a week! Assuming all of the US is not snowed in ;)
<seb128> texas should be fine I guess ;-)
<jasoncwarner> well, other than being Texas ;)
<seb128> I was speaking for the weather ;-)
<tremolux> haha
<kenvandine> hehe
 * bcurtiswx_ <3 snow
<seb128> though the weather forecast says it's going to freeze during the nights
<jasoncwarner> thanks everyone! [END MEETING]
<seb128> thanks jasoncwarner!
<didrocks> thanks jasoncwarner
<bcurtiswx_> <---- the wx is short for weather  FYI
<tremolux> thx everybody, good day all
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, interesting...
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, do you get extra details if you make V=1
<seb128> in the empathy build dir
<bcurtiswx_> the command "make V=1"
<bcurtiswx_> ?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, no same errors no extra information
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, yes the wx = weather.  I have my B.S. in Meteorology.. M.S. in Computational Sciences.. working on my PhD in Computational Sciences and Informatics
<kenvandine> cool
 * bcurtiswx_ <3 computer modeling
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, my wife is a weather junky... i tease her that she should go back to school for another degree
<bcurtiswx_> haha, we'll continue this later
<bcurtiswx_> time for my lunch break
<kenvandine> her psychology degree is pretty useless :)
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, no really clue about the build issue, is the current ubuntu version building?
<seb128> could be due to the --as-needed
 * kenvandine -> lunch
<dbarth> bryceh: hey bryce; i'm a bit lost with the debug packages i should have to get the lines of code info in my backtrace
<seb128> dbarth, debug package for what source?
<dbarth> bryceh: i have libgl1-mesa-dri-dbgsym whereas i had libgl1-mesa-dri-dbg
<dbarth> but in neither case was i able to get line numbers
<dbarth> dri drivers
<dbarth> r300
<dbarth> it's in libgl1-mesa-dri
<dbarth> and my crasher is in /usr/lib/dri/r300_dri.so r300_texture_from_handle
<dbarth> seb128: are those the right ones you think?
<seb128> dbarth, try asking on #ubuntu-x
<dbarth> ah ok
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, ubuntu builds fine without the patches
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, empathy*
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, well with --disable-webkit since we dont' have the latest webkit built correctly yet
<bryceh> hrm, LibreGraphics conference is same week as Budapest UDS :-( :-(
<bcurtiswx_> hmm nautilus didn't have the gir 1.2 switch yet
<kenvandine> that was refreshing... time to dive back into to gir overrides for dee :)
<didrocks> time to enjoy some dinner, see you tomorrow :)
<kenvandine> good night didrocks
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, enjoy good night
<didrocks> bye kenvandine and bcurtiswx_
<bcurtiswx_> rebooting to test nautilus rebuild
<pitti> good night everyone
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<kenvandine> seb128, my libgwibber build is dep wait for gir1.2-dee-0.5 which is in universe, can you promote that for me? or do i need an archive admin?
<seb128> kenvandine, you need an archive admin but I'm one ;-)
<kenvandine> oh, hehe :)
<kenvandine> once libgwibber builds there will be some binNEW too
<micahg> doesn't that need an MIR?
<seb128> kenvandine, I will promote it, should take some 2 hours time for it to be published and start building though
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, will do that as well
<kenvandine> cool
<seb128> micahg, it's a binary of a source in main
<micahg> seb128: ah, ok
<lamalex> is there any way to get natty to stop opening links in firefox when it's not set as the default browser
<lamalex> it's driving me nu
<lamalex> s
<lamalex> ts
<seb128> lamalex, edit /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
<seb128> then run update-desktop-database
<seb128> you want to change the http handler in there
<lamalex> thanks
<seb128> yw
<lamalex> :\ not working
<seb128> no way
<seb128> what did you do exactly?
<lamalex> sudo emacs /usr/share/applications/defaults.list, removed all instances of firefox.desktop, ran update-desktop-database
<lamalex> clicked a link
<lamalex> and it opened in firefox
<lamalex> and I checked .local/share which has 1 entry for chrome as text/html
<seb128> lamalex, you should have replaced firefox by your browser
<seb128> if you don't set a default it will pick randomly one
<lamalex> seb128, sorry, I did that
<lamalex> i forgot to say that they were already like =firefox.desktop;google-chrome.desktop
<lamalex> so I just removed firefox
<seb128> lamalex, did you run sudo update-desktop-database on the directory?
<lamalex> yah
<lamalex> on the directory?
<seb128> you edited the x-scheme-handler lines right?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> sudo u-d-d /usr/share/applications
<lamalex> you didn't say to run it with a path, but i just did and still no change
<seb128> the mimeinfo.cache
<lamalex> http://pastebin.com/ZdP2SMyW
<seb128> what line does it have for x-scheme-handler
<lamalex> that's my defaults.list
<seb128> what about the .cache?
<lamalex> google-chrome.desktop;firefox.desktop;
<seb128> nothing in .local/share/applications?
<seb128> grep x-scheme-handler .local/share/applications
<lamalex> seb128, like I said there's only 1 entry in that file and it's chrome
<seb128> ok, dunno then
<seb128> it works for everybody else who tried
<lamalex> hm
<lamalex> is the bug fixed for setting it from the prefs?
<seb128> no, the capplet doesn't handle the new system
<seb128> but changes the defaults.list should do it
<seb128> changing
<seb128> not sure why it doesn't work for you
<jasoncwarner> morning eastern edition folks....meeting time.
 * bryceh waves
<jasoncwarner> bryceh: TheMuso: robert_ancell RAOF
<jasoncwarner> you guys around?
<jasoncwarner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-01-04
<TheMuso> yep
<bryceh> is RAOF on vacation?
<jasoncwarner> morning, bryceh
<jasoncwarner> bryceh: I think you are right
<bryceh> heh, for a change ;-)
<TheMuso> Internal server error...
<jasoncwarner> zing!
<TheMuso> hrm worked second ime.
<TheMuso> time
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: refresh...the magic button!
<jasoncwarner> alright...we'll see if robert_ancell is around in a bit, but lets get started
<jasoncwarner> first off, Happy New year!
<jasoncwarner> I hope everyone had a great break and new year.
<jasoncwarner> and I hope everyone is well rested for the rally!!!
<jasoncwarner> :)
<jasoncwarner> ok...jumping straight in...
<jasoncwarner> please be sure to update the wiki with your notes
<jasoncwarner> and [TOPIC] X.org
<bryceh> ok
<jasoncwarner> bryceh: take it away?
<bryceh> we're at a decision point on xserver 1.9 vs. 1.10.  RAOF and I just need to touch base and make sure we're in consensus
<bryceh> there were some last minute bits and pieces that slipped in for 1.10, we need to make sure it's nothign too scary
<bryceh> with that decided, probably next monday I guess, we'll start the mega merge of new X bits and pieces
<jasoncwarner> just in time for the rally..perfect ;) you guys sure do know how to plan it!
<bryceh> http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/versions-current.html
<bryceh> not a lot of stuff needing merged right at the moment but I think X.org will start pumping out driver releases and stuff in the coming month or two
<bryceh> X.org bugs - we're in surprisingly good shape
<bryceh> http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg
<bryceh> that shows there are only 3 known bugs reported against natty that we need to do something about
<bryceh> one of which is just "merge new ati driver"
<bryceh> really nice that we're staying atop the bugs this time through.  We'll see how long that lasts
<bryceh> the most commonly reported issue is perhaps worth a bit of discussion
<bryceh> it's not really an X bug, but people think it is
<bryceh> when you make a USB LiveCD (for testing), you can create a persistent thingee, to store docs and stuff
<bryceh> people think that this means they can also install updated drivers, such as -nvidia and -fglrx
<bryceh> however, those types of drivers require changes to files outside the persistent storage area, which apparently are writable but don't persist across boot
<bryceh> so installing -nvida or -fglrx on a USB Live environment is *not* supported
<jasoncwarner> is that a widespread expectation?
<bryceh> we've gotten more bug reports filed about that than all other natty X.org bug reports combined, I'd estimate
<jasoncwarner> seems education might be the safest route on that one for now unless it is rather trivial to conjure up a solution to that
<bryceh> my thinking is perhaps we could have Jockey detect if it's running in a LiveCD environment and not offer to install drivers
<bryceh> I think that would prevent the issue for 99% of the time
<jasoncwarner> well, then they wouldn't get to test Unity or something ...right? maybe just a warning dialog that says 'this will not persist past this session...'
<jasoncwarner> ?
<Sarvatt> those drivers require a reboot to work
<bryceh> well, for -nvidia and -fglrx you *have* to reboot for the drivers to get loaded
 * kenvandine is just excited to be able to run unity in virtualbox :)
<bryceh> ok, enough on that topic
<jasoncwarner> yeah
<jasoncwarner> kenvandine: indeed!
<bryceh> last bit, I've been working on major improvements to the apport hook for xorg
<bryceh> and am working with the compiz/dx team to share efforts with them, which I hope will help in diagnosing unity/compiz driver-ish bugs
<jasoncwarner> oh, nice
<bryceh> jasoncwarner, ok I think that's everything for X.
<jasoncwarner> Great, thanks bryceh
<jasoncwarner> ok...
<jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] AOB?
<jasoncwarner> alright then!
<jasoncwarner> again, don't forget to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-01-04 with your notes for the week.
<jasoncwarner> and, robert_ancell, happy new year!
<TheMuso> I'll ask on the platform list, but is there anybody here who gets into Dallas around 15:10 or so on Sunday afternoon?
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: let me check my itin
 * TheMuso arrives into Dallas then and would like to hook up for transport to the hotel.
<jasoncwarner> [END MEETING]
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: it looks like I get in @ 1655 on sunday.
<TheMuso> ah ok
<TheMuso> I'll ask on the platform/dx lists then, thanks.
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, cheers!
<bryceh> thanks
<TheMuso> /c/c
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-05
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, awake?
<kieppie1> hi guys. I have what seems to be a bug on my system; my desktop icons & fonts are tiny, and I don't seem able to reset it. any ideas, please?
 * korben greets all
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti :)
<pitti> didrocks: you currently claim the #1 for the remaining work to do for alpha-2
<didrocks> not sure it's a nice #1 position :)
<didrocks> there are the oneconf WI? let's see what else
<pitti> didrocks: do you want to go over them with me and see whether we can postpone/drop some stuff, and check if anything is blocked?
<didrocks> pitti: let me have a look first
<didrocks> pitti: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-alpha-2.html is empty for me ?
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-2.html
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I think that's noise from the time when we had james_w's merged project support, hang on
<pitti> urgh, I think that's in the DB even
<didrocks> urgh :/
<pitti> please ignore them for now
<didrocks> pitti: other-dx-n-2d-experience-fallback (3 items): I'll be able to finish that today if I can get focus on it
<pitti> right, these seem easy
<pitti> didrocks: the dialog appears in the live session
<didrocks> packageselection-desktop-n-bringing-desktop-and-netbook-image-closer: I would say postpone. Let's discuss at the Rally, but evo express in 2.32 isn't good for default
<pitti> so unless that's special magic in caper, it ought to work for installs, too
<didrocks> pitti: yes, I've added it without marking it as DONE
<pitti> didrocks: ok, so DROP
<didrocks> ok
<pitti> didrocks: apport hook> there's a pending branch from bryceh to make it use the X.org hook
<pitti> so that should be on track
<didrocks> yeah + adding some small things
<didrocks> but it's a 2 hours work
<didrocks> get some plugins to be linked statically
<didrocks> -> wait on compiz dx expert
<didrocks> work on nautilus to get it not move when locking unlocking the launcher
<pitti> should this be reassigned?
<didrocks> pitti: no, I still need to do some work and they have a WI for that too
<pitti> didrocks: and is that still even an issue with 0.9?
<didrocks> -> not sure who put that. If it's me, I don't know what it means :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's still slow to load
<didrocks> oh yeah, I added it
<didrocks> (the nautilus)
<pitti> didrocks: the way I understand it we have the opposite problem
<didrocks> I misread and saw gnome-panel
<pitti> didrocks: when you show the launcher, nautilus desktop background doesn't move
<pitti> i. e. the unity launcher covers your icons
<didrocks> pitti: it's basically https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/684649
<pitti> I manually moved them for that
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 684649 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Nautilus desktop icons should never be under the launcher (affects: 7) (dups: 4) (heat: 184)" [High,Triaged]
<pitti> didrocks: ah, correct
<didrocks> I planned to work on that in the plane
<pitti> didrocks: how about we link that bug to the spec instead and drop it from the WB? it'll still be tracked as a WI
<didrocks> sure, will do
<pitti> I'll do that
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> finish /opt work regarding the decisions above -> waiting on the DMB, in any case, that can even be done in the freeze period
<didrocks> (there is a WI for the DMB)
<pitti> ok, moving to BLOCKED
<didrocks> then oneconf -> I need to work with nessita for some points. and that's mainly 2 days at the Rally
<didrocks> apart from "some improvements/performance tweak to oneconf USC" -> these, I have the idea how to achieve it, will do it on the plane as well
<pitti> didrocks: /opt> what's still to be decided there?
<pitti> I thought we exhaustively discussed it in the TB meetings
<pitti> didrocks: oneconf> as we are on track in the overall cycle (http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html) we could move it to beta
<pitti> but if you want to keep it for a2, that's fine for me
<pitti> I mainly want to ensure that you don't explode
<didrocks> pitti: on /opt, there are still some decision on Quickly to decide what the special submitubuntu command will do. Nothing in the toolchain build-dep or whatever
<pitti> didrocks: so, in summary, are you comfortable with your current WIs, or do you need help with something?
<didrocks> pitti: also, what needs to be symlinks and such
<didrocks> pitti: oneconf> I would prefer doing as much work as possible during the sprint, will reconsider the WI just after
<pitti> didrocks: sounds like a plan
<pitti> didrocks: easier there to directly work with Naty indeed
<didrocks> In a nutshell, it's fine, thanks :) I'm more fixing bugs in unity than rushing on my WI those days
<pitti> didrocks: yes, that was my concern; stuff like that nautilus bug could easily be moved post-alpha2
<pitti> and in fact it just did now, I think the bug isn't milestoned
<didrocks> oh?
<didrocks> right, it's not
<didrocks> I'll milestone it for A2
 * pitti moves to beta
<pitti> ah, ok
<pitti> didrocks: well, you can still fix it by beta, but it won't be an a2 blocker
<pitti> erm, "by a2"
<didrocks> pitti: is there a way to show it as an alpha2 target still?
<didrocks> without being a blocker?
<pitti> didrocks: conceptually, a WI should be targetted at the deadline
<pitti> didrocks: you can set it as "in progress"
<pitti> didrocks: but as I said, feel free to move to a2 if you prefer
<didrocks> pitti: no, that's fine, I've it opened in a tab as "in progress" :)
<pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks for the heads-up! I'm much less scared now
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for the notice, I'll finish the session work today
<didrocks> which is basically converting the failsafe session to the new session (one hack less \o/) and check the guest session :)
<pitti> niice
<didrocks> mvo: hey, FYI, you have now com.canonical.Unity. Just check if there is a owner to know if the panel (and not the service) is running
<seb128> hello
<mvo> didrocks: cool, is that in natty already? if so I change the code right away
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> hey mvo
<didrocks> mvo: yes, it is :)
<seb128> what is in natty?
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: a way to check if unity (the panel) is running
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> pitti, did you mean to drop that nautilus locking w-i?
<seb128> "- [didrocks] work on nautilus to get it not move when locking unlocking the launcher: TODO"
<didrocks> seb128: we discussed here with pitti before you joined. It's not dropped, just set to beta (but I still plan to work on that on the plane)
<didrocks> seb128: pitti added the associated bug
<pitti> seb128: I linked to the existing bug instead
<pitti> unfortunately that's not included in teh LP mail
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I gues you discussed staying on classic evo as well?
<seb128> could be nice to add some rational in the whiteboard for people not on IRC but following the specs
<geser> does somebody know how much longer it will take till libvala-0.10-dev has vanished from the archive (NBS)? There are still some build-dependencies left but some other packages are also in depwait on libvala-dev (currently provided by two packages and the buildds can't resolve it). Or should those package get changed to build-depend on libvala-0.12-dev?
<pitti> geser: I can remove them if necessary
<pitti> geser: but stuff like e. g. rhythmbox b-deps on it without an alternative
<pitti> libvala-0.10-dev, valac-0.10
<geser> pitti: do you know if packages build-depend on libvala-dev will build with libvala-0.12-dev without changes?
<pitti> I don't know
<seb128> depends, some do some will required patches to the source
<pitti> -- natty/universe i386 deps on libvala-0.10-0:
<pitti> gedit-valatoys-plugin
<pitti> libafrodite0
<pitti> these are the only two binary rdepends
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/valac-0.10
<pitti> that's the most useful list of things to fix
<geser> ok, will try. Is it preferred to build-depend on libvala-dev or use libvala-0.12-dev (perhaps with | libvala-dev)?
<pitti> if it works with both 0.10 and 0.12, my gut feeling is "libvala-dev"
<geser> last time I looked at one package it needed at least an update of the .pc file to use
<pitti> ah, then it should be versioned
<didrocks> hum, the guest session seems broken, let's look at the gdm patch if something changed
<geser> didrocks: just curious, could you reproduce my gnome-panel issue in your vm?
<didrocks> geser: sorry, I didn't have the time to come to it, trying to fix other things first
<geser> np
<didrocks> pitti: I'm working on the gdm guest session. Is there any reason why you exec /etc/gdm/Xsession "$@" rather than setting gnome-session in /usr/share/xsessions/guest-restricted.desktop for instance?
<pitti> didrocks: there was one, let me check the bzr history
<didrocks> pitti: I checked without any success (apart from my recent change but it can be done my wisely) :/
<pitti> Exec=/usr/share/gdm/guest-session/Xsession
<pitti> didrocks: ^ you mean that?
<didrocks> pitti: right, and the wrapper content
<pitti> didrocks: well, why wouldn't I run the gdm session?
<pitti> without it, you don't get /etc/X11/Xsession.d/, locale setting, etc.
<pitti> didrocks: ah, you mean gdm already does that before
<didrocks> pitti: /usr/share/xsessions/guest-restricted.desktop isn't ru by gdm? and this one is sourcing /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
<pitti> didrocks: right, that might simply be a thinko of mine
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I will give it a try then
<pitti> didrocks: back then I might have thought "let's not hardcode gnome-session"
<pitti> so that you can change the default
<pitti> but I'm not stuck to it
<didrocks> pitti: now (in lucid) that I give the current GDMSESSION to gdm and decide which file session to execute based on that, I think we can do it adding other session desktop files
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I'll have a look to rewrap that then, the fridge is arriving first. Thanks! :)
<pitti> hah
<pitti> a bed, a fridge, what about your internet?
<didrocks> pitti: they started to send the new dsl boxes yesterday, but they have a backlog of three weeks. So that + building the phone line. I have little hope before the rally
<pitti> didrocks: well, as long as your free connection holds up..
<didrocks> more or less, today it seems to not be very kind with me (I'm disconnected a lot)
<seb128> could update-manager be any slower?
<seb128> ok, I've 329 updates listed
<seb128> but it takes over 15 seconds to display the context menu when right clicking
<seb128> with some 10 seconds of compiz marking it as not responding
<seb128> that's on a recent and fast box
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128!
<chrisccoulson> happy new year :)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, happy new year!
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm good thanks, how are you? did you enjoy your time off?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> yes, very much, 2 weeks away from the computer
<seb128> which made me realize that I really needed those ;-)
<seb128> nice to be back now though
<seb128> what about you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's good to get a break :)
<chrisccoulson> i've had a fairly busy couple of weeks going to visit people
<seb128> did you manage to not work?
<seb128> seems you did the firefox update but otherwise?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i didn't really do any work other than that
<seb128> great ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i checked e-mails occasionally just to make sure there weren't any big problems ;)
<mvo> seb128: hum? right click takes a long time? the initial cache calculation does, but he right click should be there instalntly
<seb128> mvo, 15 seconds on a i5 ssd config
<seb128> before displaying the menu
<mvo> seb128: so its all there ready and you right click and it takes that long? and then you get unselect all, unselect none?
<seb128> mvo, yes, it takes some 20 seconds to load
<seb128> then everything is displayed, I can click on entry, read the changelog etc
<seb128> but the first right click takes some 15 seconds
<seb128> then "uncheck all" takes less than 1 second
<seb128> checking all takes some 6 seconds
<mvo> that is pretty odd
<seb128> but I don't get the delay again
<mvo> seb128: could you ping me again after lunch? its really a odd bug, I wonder if something outside of u-m might trigger it as I don't remember that code chaning in a while
<seb128> mvo, it's probably not a new bug, it's just likely that people don't have 300 updates every day
<seb128> mvo, ok, will do
<mvo> seb128: I have a test box here with 1000 updates and its instant (after the initial setup). could you comment out line 476in UpdateManager.py (num_updates = self.cache.installCount )and replace wiht num_updates = 27 and see if that changes anything ?
<mvo> seb128: I have a suspicion about the problem :)
<seb128> mvo, now it's instant
<seb128> mvo, but go for lunch we can discuss that later
<mvo> seb128: thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: ok, it was working well with the direct call to gnome-session and different desktop file. But I just saw that you are using /usr/share/gdm/guest-session/Xsession for apparmor/gdm-guest-session.
<bigon> pitti: could you please merge the last gdk-pixbuf from debian? (asking you as you did the last upload)
<pitti> didrocks: right, we need the wrapper; so the wrapper should call gnome-session?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, and I'll add a switch to the wrapper then
<didrocks> as we need different args for gnome-session
<pitti> bigon: ah, too bad; in our previous pacakge we used clean-la.mk from cdbs to at least drop all the dependencies from the .la file
<pitti> bigon: is it an issue for natty as well?
<pitti> seb128: meh, apport chroot python bustage again, fixing
<bigon> pitti: well the .la is not shipped in natty, so I guess it still is
<pitti> bigon: we have shipped the cleaned variant for quite some time, though
<bigon> but some rdep are still shipping .la file that have references to this one
<pitti> bigon: anyway, I'm happy to merge it soon; we'll watch out for build failures due to this
<pitti> bigon: ah, bug 665768
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 665768 in gdk-pixbuf (Debian) (and 1 other project) "libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.la missing from packages (affects: 3) (heat: 22)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665768
<pitti> bigon: btw, kenvandine added a patch to set _gir_PACKAGES in the GIR, to fix vapigen
<pitti> bigon: that sounds interesting for Debian as well, did he talk to you about this?
<bigon> nothing on the BTS, Ive maybe missed something on irc
<bigon> any rational for this patch?
<pitti> I don't know beyond that changelog entry
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ did you forward it to upstream/Debian?
<seb128> pitti, don't put the .la back
<pitti> seb128: I don't want to
<seb128> we fixed the few other .la still listing it
<seb128> it's not needed in ubuntu
<pitti> seb128: so we can close this bug then? thanks
<seb128> yes
<seb128> thanks
<bigon> pitti: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635364 something here
<ubot2> Gnome bug 635364 in general "Add C include and exported packages information to GIR" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<bigon> looks like the patches are not the same
<pitti> bigon: our patch is
<pitti> +GdkPixbuf_2_0_gir_PACKAGES = gdk-pixbuf-2.0
<pitti> which looks close
<bigon> +GdkPixbuf_2_0_gir_EXPORT_PACKAGES = gdk-pixbuf-2.0
<pitti> I'm not sure about the difference of these two, could be enough
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ ?
<bigon> seb128: I'm not happy with putting .la file back, in debian there were a crapload of other .la file referencing it
<granjero> hi is there a way to block right click over the desktop and panels?
<pitti> seb128: do you know who would be a good person for backporting the patch for bug 494096 to lucid-proposed?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 494096 in metacity (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "Clicking the title of a window is bringing a window underneath it into focus (affects: 63) (dups: 9) (heat: 294)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494096
<pitti> seb128: I guess somewhere between you, me, and perhaps Chris?
<seb128> didrocks or chrisccoulson?
<seb128> chrisccoulson has a lucid install for sure
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, you are back! happy new year!
<didrocks> I don't have a lucid install here (well, I have it on a computer in a box)
 * pitti raises shields around didrocks, looking at his WIs
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> ok, then chrisccoulson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: would you have time to look into bug 494096? there's a patch, but it needs to be tested (it does't have a good test case) and uploaded
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 494096 in metacity (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "Clicking the title of a window is bringing a window underneath it into focus (affects: 63) (dups: 9) (heat: 294)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/494096
<seb128> brb session restart
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, happy new year to you too :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can take a look at that in a bit
<pitti> chrisccoulson: did you have some nice holidays?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, not too bad thanks, although it was quite busy
<chrisccoulson> how about you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: very relaxing here; lots of family and friends, and playing Descent :)
<chrisccoulson> nice :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: busy> did you work much?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i didn't work much except for doing the firefox beta 8 upload
<chrisccoulson> but we spent a lot of time visiting family and friends
<didrocks> everything is ok now with the guest session, except that apparmor prevents the unity plugins to loadâ¦
<didrocks> hum, maybe it's because I have a local unity installation
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! Happy new year :)
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, happy new year :)
<bigon> pitti: do you have a script or something that display the state of .la in ubuntu (like http://release.debian.org/~aba/la/current.txt ?)
<didrocks> hum no, not that, it seems related to the fact it can't set a local schema to gconf
<pitti> bigon: I don't think we have
<seb128> re
<pitti> wb seb128
<pitti> seb128: btw, using gtk2.0/gi with apport is a lot less broken than I feared
<seb128> so should be easy to do if we need or want?
<pitti> seb128: some methods aren't available, such as Gtk.RadioButton.new_with_label_from_widget(), and connect_signals(), but by and large it works
<pitti> seb128: I'm currently fixing trunk to work with both
<pitti> so I'll drop the Gtk.require_version() call, and we can control it with dependencies
<pitti> seb128: we already have gir-gtk-2.0 due to the gnome-applets dependency anyway
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: apport is the easiest one to get to work with 2.0
<seb128> the question was just to know if it was working enough for apport
<pitti> but I hope language-selector will work, too
<pitti> it's missing all the annotation fixes that went into gtk3, so these require workarounds
<seb128> we could probably revert to the pygtk version otherwise?
<pitti> seb128: we could, but I'd rather avoid that if possible
<seb128> ok, done with restarts for a bit
<seb128> pitti, let's see what we decide to do with gtk3 then we can see what we do with the rdepends
<pitti> doing grouped radio buttons with gtk2/gi is crash-land and a nuisance, though :-(
<pitti> gtk_radio_button_join_group() isn't available in gtk2 :-(
<seb128> could we put another langpack on the CD if we drop gtk3?
<pitti> I suppose
<seb128> well it's a cost benefit discussion then
<pitti> a bit hard to say, as removing gtk3 removes half of the desktop due to the canberra dependency
<seb128> space against work to port those backward
<seb128> pitti, that was fixed 2 days ago?
<pitti> oh
<seb128> with a bit of salt in the middle of the cost benefit due to the theming issue
<pitti> seb128: ah, just mousetweaks left
<seb128> but ideally we will need a gtk3 theme anyway, would it only be for the GNOME3 ppa builds
<pitti> mousetweaks depends on both 2.0 and 3.0
<rodrigo_> are we going to use at-spi or at-spi2 for natty?
<pitti> seb128: should save us about 2.8 MB
<pitti> seb128: that's dropping libcanberra-gtk3-0 gtk3-engines-murrine gir1.2-gtk-3.0 libgtk3.0-0 libgtk3.0-bin
<pitti> seb128: seems the GTK3 stack isn't half as big as I feared
<seb128> rodrigo_, dunno, does it impact on other things we are doing?
<seb128> pitti, seems it's not worth the effort to drop it then if we get a decent theme
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, the unity a11y work
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh, you work on that now?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, jason assigned it to me the week before the holidays
<seb128> oh ok, I didn't follow that
<seb128> you should check with TheMuso
<pitti> seb128: so, radio buttons are officially busted with gtk2.0/gi, there is no way to group them
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, sorry, my fault, should have told you
<seb128> he said at-spi2 still had speed issues IIRC
<seb128> rodrigo_, so how much time do you still have for other work?
<seb128> pitti, you should just put this work on hold until we sort the GTK3 question
<rodrigo_> seb128, 50% I think
<pitti> seb128: *nod*
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, just this week I'm doing almost 10% only, because I need to study the unity code
<rodrigo_> seb128, but once I'm up to speed (end of this week), should have more time
<rodrigo_> also, there's a a11y expert already working on it, so hopefully my involvement should be short
<rodrigo_> seb128, what do you want me to work on?
<pitti> seb128: time for lunch then :)
<seb128> pitti, enjoy!
<rodrigo_> right, lunch time here also :-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, nothing specifically, I'm just trying to see where we are going, what needs to be done and who is available to do work
<seb128> like how active we should be on the GNOME3 ppa, who is working on it, etc
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm still working on it, just this week a bit slow
<seb128> no worry, it's just to know how to dispatch tasks
<seb128> rodrigo_, enjoy your lunch ;-)
<seb128> hey mterry
<rodrigo_> seb128, feel free to send me tasks, if I can't I'll let you know, but I should have time for other tasks
<rodrigo_> but yes, lunch now, bbl
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok!
<mterry> seb128, hello!
<mterry> seb128, are there Desktop things that need doing?
<seb128> mterry, nothing special, basically updating or merging things which are not green on http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<seb128> well we don't care much about the yellow ones
<seb128> but everything orange or red could be updated
<seb128> so feel free to pick on those
<seb128> mterry, someone will need to update the preferred capplet to the GNOME3 version as well
<seb128> or rather "the 2.32 code to use the GNOME3 handler system" rather
<seb128> which is basically copying what they did for GNOME3 if we stay on 2.32 for natty which seems likely
<mterry> seb128, I see.  Is anyone working on that?
<mterry> I could look into it
<seb128> mterry, no
<seb128> mterry, if you want to that would be welcome
<mterry> seb128, sure, put me down for that
<seb128> mterry, ok, great, thanks
<mterry> seb128, we'll decide at rally whether we stick with 2.32 for natty?  Seems like we will at this rate
<seb128> yes
<mterry> seb128, you meant the schema handler code from GNOME3, right?
<mterry> Which is affecting us because we updated glib...  I see
<seb128> re
<seb128> mterry, sorry, compiz,unity crash
<seb128> mterry, right, the new handler system for the default browser, email client, etc
<mterry> seb128, yup, cool
<seb128> mterry, speaking about 2.32 against 3 we will discuss it, but I'm pretty sorted on staying on what we have
<seb128> mterry, there is still lot of work on GNOME3, we don't have a GTK3 theme and it's not clear we will have a nice one this cycle, GTK3 already got a one month delay compared to the original schedule which said decembre
<seb128> mterry, it seems lot of work and risky for no real benefit, especially that they still argue about what the 2d session will be
<mterry> seb128, sure.  About the theme, what we'll end up using for that?  We have some stuff like apport that are gtk3 now
<seb128> mterry, that's an open question as well to discuss at the same time
<seb128> we might just want to back out gtk3
<mterry> yar
<seb128> only apport language-selector and aptdaemon are using gtk3 at the moment
<geser> seb128: do you (as an archive admin) prefer a bug to move gir1.2-soup-2.4 to main (src: libsoup2.4 (main)) or can you do it directly? (libgdata is in depwait on gir1.2-soup-2.4)
<seb128> geser, I can do it now
<mterry> That seems easier than not.  I wish py-gi worked better with gtk2, then it would be almost a one-line change
<seb128> mterry, well I still think we need a gtk3 theme
<seb128> would it be only for those using the GNOME3 ppa
<seb128> we need to sync with dx and design on that though
<seb128> geser, done
<geser> thanks
<seb128> thank you for pointing it
<pitti> mterry: I got apport working 90% with gtk2/gi; we just need to fix the introspectability of gtk_radio_button_new_with_label_from_widget; if we go this direction, that shoudln't be too hard
<seb128> mterry, do you want to pick that task as well?
<seb128> well maybe let's wait on the decision for gtk3 on the CD
<cyphermox> pitti, use any special way to generate the tarball for ubuntu-mono ?
<seb128> if we want to keep it we need to solve at least the theme issue
<pitti> cyphermox: no idea, I never touched that
<cyphermox> bzr bd tries to do get-orig-source and fails... I created the tarball manually now, but I was wondering if there was a "magic" way ;)
<cyphermox> oh ok
<mterry> seb128, should d-conf be in the desktop-set?  I can ping cjwatson if so
<pitti> cyphermox: oh, just for the current one? apt-get source doesn't work? I thought it tries that first
<cyphermox> well, I'm doing changes to it
 * mterry is thinking not being in core-dev is great for finding desktop-set holes.  :)
<seb128> mterry, yes
<seb128> hehe, indeed
<didrocks> ok, apparmor profile fixed \o/
<seb128> cyphermox, bzr bd should do the right thing, there is no upstream tarball, it's just built from bzr
<seb128> didrocks, great, what was it?
<didrocks> seb128: compiz is trying to create /etc/compizconfig/config and if apparmor deny it, it won't read it
<didrocks> so fallback to the ini backend
<didrocks> temporary workaround is to allow write in apparmor, then ACL deny and libcompizconfig is happy
<seb128> didrocks, why does it try to create a config in a dir which is a system one?
<didrocks> then, I'll have a look why libcompizconfig is behaving like that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> didrocks, great work ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: well, I had some help from jdstrand for knowing where to look :)
<geser> I'm looking at the depwait on gnome-system-tools (which was easy to fix) but got stuck when trying to build the package. The error I got is: /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to symbol 'atk_object_set_name' ;; /usr/bin/ld: note: 'atk_object_set_name' is defined in DSO /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so so try adding it to the linker command line
<cyphermox> seb128, I don't know, it would just give up.. not the biggest deal though, I created a tarball and I'm about to push a branch and merge request
<kenvandine> pitti, bigon: I think either way works, but not sure which is more correct
<geser> I'm a little bit confused as it complains about a lib and not an object file
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, thanks; so if that gnome bz patch gets applied, we can drop our's?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> but
<pitti> geser: looks like it's missing an -latk1.0 ?
<kenvandine> i think if you use the --c-include we need to do something to allow uninstalled
<pitti> geser: i. e. a pkgconfig check for "atk"?
<geser> pitti: the lib (gtk2.0) or gnome-system-utils?
<pitti> geser: whatever you are trying to build
<geser> pitti: the complete linker call and error message: http://paste.ubuntu.com/550656/
<pitti> hm, it does have -latk-1.0
<pitti> so I'm not sure what's wrong here
<pitti> perhaps it needs to go in front of the -lgtk bit
<bcurtiswx_> good morning :)
<seb128> hey bcurtiswx_
<bcurtiswx_> hi seb128 :)
<bcurtiswx_> anyone here successfully add a PPA to their pbuilder-dist ?
<bcurtiswx_> im using --othermirror but it doesn't seem like it's working
<seb128> geser, try putting the latk before the lgtk just to see
<bcurtiswx_> for example http://paste.ubuntu.com/550660/
<geser> seb128: no difference, also tried using -l... instead /usr/lib/lib... (just to be sure)
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, sorry but I don't use pbuilder with a ppa so dunno
<geser> what makes a difference is -Wl,--add-needed
<seb128> geser, let's wait for doko to reply then
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, np, thx tho :)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, I've started a new 'project' that involves both gdm and language-selector. Wonder if you want to sponsor also the merge proposals that will come as a result of that, or if you would prefer that someone else does it.
<GunnarHj> pitti: It's https://launchpad.net/bugs/693337
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 693337 in language-selector (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Menus for choosing language should have one option per available translation (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,In progress]
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, whats the CA file ubuntu uses?
<seb128> dunno
 * bcurtiswx_ pokes kenvandine ^^
<bcurtiswx_> empathy wants a --with-ca-file
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, prod
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, dunno
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, check what debian did?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i remember adding it before but idk why its not there anymore
<bcurtiswx_> lemme check
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy, what ca file were you using before adding the option --with-ca-file= ?
<pitti> GunnarHj: I'm happy to look at them, please subscribe me
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, its the ca-certificates package.  how do I find out where the files are installed to ?
<seb128> Laney, dpkg -L ca-certificates
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, i think you meant me ;)
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, yes
<seb128> Laney, sorry
<seb128> do we have any mono hacker around who want to have a look at bug #596727?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 596727 in sysinfo (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "sysinfo crashes when I click on "system": GConf.NoSuchKeyException: Key '/apps/sysinfo/window_width' not found in GConf (affects: 41) (dups: 8) (heat: 213)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596727
<seb128> the title is misleading, the crash is in the comments though
<seb128> System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
<seb128>   at Sysinfo.SystemInfo.Xorg () [0x00000]
<seb128>   at Sysinfo.Sysinfo.on_notebook1_switch_page (System.Object o, Gtk.SwitchPageArgs e) [0x00000]
<seb128> ^
<seb128> that's the crash
<bratsche> Anyone happen to know why clicking URLs is launching Firefox instead of my configured app (Chromium)?
<bratsche> Is this happening to anyone else?
<seb128> bratsche, didn't we have that discussion before?
<bratsche> No.
<seb128> bratsche, edit /usr/share/applications/defaults.list
<bratsche> Yesterday I was asking about Unity stuff.
<seb128> bratsche, edit /usr/share/applications/defaults.list, change the handler
<bratsche> seb128: Thanks.
<micahg> bug 670128
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 670128 in xdg-utils (Fedora) (and 4 other projects) "gnome-open uses firefox while it's not the preferred browser (affects: 12) (dups: 2) (heat: 76)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670128
<seb128> bratsche, then run sudo update-desktop-database /usr/share/applications
<bcurtiswx_> cassidy, is it /usr/share/ca-certificates ?
<bratsche> seb128: Great, thanks!
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, did you check what debian has in its rules?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, im searching but i guess idk where to search.. i feel like I should know this tho
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, the debian configure.ac file has /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/empathy.html
<seb128> dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/empathy/empathy_2.91.4.3-1.dsc
<bcurtiswx_> aww, i killed seb again:(
<highvoltage> you bastard!
<bcurtiswx_> should we call him sebby for short ?
<davmor2> bcurtiswx: no call him by his full name dead sebby
<GunnarHj> pitti: Great! You are now subscribed.
<GunnarHj> Even if it's no hurry (I haven't started with the gdm side yet), your comments on l-s so far would of course be appreciated, so I know that I'm on the right track.
<bcurtiswx_> aww darn, and i had another good one too
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, the debian rules file doesn't have the --with-ca-file option in there
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, well it default to be smart if there is no option given no?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, when i build on pbuilder it says it doesn't know what ca file to use.. and says i need to say either --with-ca-file=path or --without-ca-file and i specified the one I had known from last time and pbuilder still doesn't see that file (/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt)
<bcurtiswx_> so i assume I need another
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, is that file installed in the pbuilder?
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, no
<seb128> ok, that's your issue I guess
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, if pbuilder doesn't see it, should I make it a dep in empathy so it will be installed in the future ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, you should probably add it to the build-depends yes
<rickspencer3> pitti, I see that we are down to 695mb on the cd, nice
<pitti> \o/
<rickspencer3> did we put French back on the CD?
<pitti> rickspencer3: tomorrow's i386 daily will have French again; too little space on amd64 for languages, that just has Spanish and Portugese
<rickspencer3> sweet
<pitti> xulrunner might still go away, then we'd have space for more
<rickspencer3> that would be nice
<pitti> and on the rally I want to talk people into dropping python 2.6 support
<rickspencer3> was there anything besides desktopcouch that had to come off?
<pitti> which would buy us another 10 MB, aka 1 language
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> do Python programs know what version of Python they depend on?
<pitti> rickspencer3: not yet; so far we managed that through libraries, some perlsectomy, changelog reduction, and SVG/PNG compression
<pitti> rickspencer3: the python packages do
<rickspencer3> I see
<rickspencer3> so packages that require Python 2.6 could simply install it from the repos
<rickspencer3> I notice that my programs when I run them:
<rickspencer3> ptyhon foo.py
<rickspencer3> a lot of them break with 2.7
<pitti> rickspencer3: the primary thing here is python-foo libraries which currently ship a 2.6 and 2.7 module
<pitti> $ du -hs /usr/lib/python2.6/
<pitti> 75M
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> ouch
<rickspencer3> well, a lot of programs break because of library versions, indeed
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> $ du -hs /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
<rickspencer3> but also some other stuff, like how I miport
<pitti> 34M
<pitti> that one
<pitti> that's only separate libs, not python2.6 itself
<rickspencer3> that's 3 languages!
<pitti> rickspencer3: that's uncompressed, though
<rickspencer3> ah
<pitti> $ tar c /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ | gzip -9 | wc -c
<pitti> 9812643
<rickspencer3> anyway, this is great news that we fit on a CD again
<pitti> that's roughly the potential CD space saving
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, empathy still fails in pbuilder like it did on my local machine due to not seeing the indicator functions.  What do I need to do to find out why it's not seeing them?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, do you still have gcc-4.4 installed?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, you could try to build with that
<seb128> rickspencer3, we will discuss dropping gtk3 from the CD for this cycle as well, which might win some extra space
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, gcc | 4:4.5.1-1ubuntu3 |         natty | amd64, i386
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, gcc-4.4
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK i hope downgrading won't break too many things
<rickspencer3> woah
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, no need to downgrade, you can install both
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, interesting
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, then export CC=gcc-4.4
<seb128> in the rules
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, CC=gcc-4.4 and CXX=gcc-4.4...
<pitti> rickspencer3: "some" is about 2.5 MB, though; the gtk3 stack is quite small in the end
<pitti> not to be sneezed at, of course
<pitti> it migth be the difference to make French fit or not :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, we will need a new theme for GTK3 if we want to use it and it seems if we don't take GNOME3 very few things can use it
<seb128> pitti, well not "in the end", that's because we didn't go for any real application
<rickspencer3> that's I want to get French on soon ... so that other things have to prove they are more important than French if they grow or try to sneak on the CD
<seb128> pitti, otherwise we would have got a second webkit etc on the CD
<pitti> rickspencer3: tres bien
<rickspencer3> oui!
<rickspencer3> France est tres important!
<pitti> viva la France!
<seb128> vive la France!
<didrocks> \o/
<pitti> seb128: it's the spirit that counts, not the spelling! :-P
 * pitti hugs seb128 and didrocks
 * bcurtiswx_ hides here in the USA Capitol
 * didrocks hugs pitti back (carefully, without giving him his cold :))
<mterry> seb128, we have some sort of ongoing gconf->gsettings bridge?  Or the other way around?
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> mterry, you mean?
<mterry> seb128, I just thought I remember talk about something that would keep gconf & gsettings in sync (at least one of the ways -- either gsettings got changes to gconf or gconf got changes to gsettings).  Did I dream that?
<seb128> mterry, gnome-settings-daemon in GNOME3 writes back in gconf
<seb128> mterry, but that's not something we should need in natty?
<seb128> pitti, I'm still not convince btw that german should be ranked before french :p
<mterry> seb128, I see.  Yeah, was just trying to figure out what needed to happen for my schema handling backport.  Sounds like I should write to both
<pitti> seb128: if it's any consolation, amd64 doesn't have German either
<seb128> pitti, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers suggests that if you count real speakers we are over the german count ;-)
<seb128> pitti, not really a consolation, how come that amd64 has that difference?
<seb128> mterry, or just write to gconf
<mterry> seb128, sure, at a bare minimum gconf
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, same problem with gcc-4.4
<seb128> mterry, well, why does it use gsettings or gconf for?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, French people were starting a thread last cycle on the french forum on that
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, can you copy the build log somewhere?
<pitti> seb128: it has always been bigger, that's nothing new; I guess the binaries are a tad bigger due to 64 bit data types
<mterry> seb128, new gcc uses gsettings for keeping terminal/mobility/visual settings
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, sure
<mterry> seb128, mail and web go through glib
<pitti> seb128: and amd64 might have some additional 32 bit compat packages
<seb128> mterry, can't we just backport the browser email code?
<seb128> pitti, ok, right
<and471> kamstrup, ping
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, e-mailed it to ya @ubuntu
<mterry> seb128, yes we can
<mterry> seb128, it was easier to copy and paste the whole thing if I could, which is why I was asking about the gconf bridge
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, ok
<seb128> mterry, right, whatever is easier for you, I don't think we need to write in gsettings though
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, ok, gcc-4.4 is used, dunno then it would need debugging
<seb128> I can't really say without building but I don't want to mess with GNOME3 on this box before travelling
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, vbox ?
<seb128> right, well I've enough to do to not spend an hour to set a vbox and download all the build-depends
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, np.  just threw it out there
<seb128> well I would just use a pbuilder in fact
<seb128> I might have a go to it later on if kenvandine doesn't
<bcurtiswx_> I'm sorry I don't have the smarts to figure this out on my own
<seb128> those are non trivial so no worry
<seb128> it's just weird because the symbol comes from sources in the same binary and not other libraries though
<seb128> kenvandine, did you have any clue about the empathy build issue?
<kenvandine> not off hand
<kenvandine> i am planning on setting up a vm for gnome3
<kenvandine> hopefully today, so i can take a swing at it
<seb128> ok, great
<kenvandine> now that unity works in vbox, i am hoping shell will too :)
<bcurtiswx_> unity+gnome3PPA though = :( with unity
 * bcurtiswx_ ---> Lunch BBS
 * kenvandine -> lunch
<and471> kamstrup, ping
<seb128> mvo, btw about this update-manager slow issue do you want a bug?
<mvo> seb128: please
<mvo> seb128: sorry, I looked into it, but I have no clue, I know what triggers it, but I don't know why it takes so long, it should really be available right away
<seb128> mvo, bug #697761
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 697761 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "the context menu opening can be really slow (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/697761
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> mvo, thanks ;-)
<seb128> re
<seb128> mvo, do you need me to keep my box not updated for debugging purposes or not?
<kamstrup> and471: pong
<and471> kamstrup, hi I am Andrew, I am doing the network settings gui stuff :)
<kamstrup> and471: yeah kvalo told me you where Andrew :-)
<kamstrup> and471: awesome work
<and471> kamstrup, thankyou
<and471> kamstrup, I just saw your merge request and wanted to go over the points, is this okay?
<kamstrup> and471: sure
<and471> so for the first point I have added
<and471>         /// Highlight it
<and471> sorry no I haven't
<and471> I added
<and471>         bool is_gtk_builder = (this.builder is Gtk.Builder);
<and471>         assert(is_gtk_builder);
<and471> is this what you expected?
<kamstrup> and471: that's fine
<and471> ok
<kamstrup> and471: or just assert (this.builder is Gtk.Builder); ?
<kamstrup> never mind. that's details
<and471> kamstrup, yeah sure, I just thought giving it a name is easier to read
<and471> anyway
<and471> kamstrup, the ccode stuff is so gtkbuilder can autoconnect the signals to callbacks, I have now added a comment explaining this, is that solved?
<kamstrup> and471: yup, sounds good
<and471> goody
<and471> kamstrup, the connection and device fields have been converted to properties
<kamstrup> oki-doki
<and471> kamstrup, sorry I am learning vala and when I look back I don't don't why I didn't use them in the first place :)
<kamstrup> and471: if you're just learning vala now, then it's pretty impressive :-)
<and471> hehe thanks
<and471> kamstrup, about the utils copyright stuff, basically what I did was take the c code from clutter-color.c in the clutter GIT tree and port it to vala
<and471> kamstrup, I have now added the copyright header from the clutter-color.c to the utils.vala file
<and471> and said it is from clutter-color.c
<kamstrup> and471: the point here is that we want to uniformly have (C) Canonical on all files
<and471> is this enough? I don't really know much about legal things :)
<and471> ok
<kamstrup> and471: and if it's (C) Clutter team, that may be a problem
<kamstrup> and471: so it's really a judgement call by you
<cyphermox> could someone please review https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu-mono/secure-icons/+merge/45268? I'd like it to be upload asap since I'll need the new icons from it for nm-applet :)
<kamstrup> and471: if you believe that the port is independent enough to give you full copyrights, it's fine to just mention that it was ported from clutter, and it's your choice to transfer the copyright to Canonical
<kamstrup> otoh, if it's mostly copy paste we need to figure something out
<and471> yeah it is, I just changed it to be in vala
<and471> it is all GPL so I hope it won't be that much of a problem
<kamstrup> and471: but it's no biggie, I think kvalo talked to someone on the unity team, and we have similar code somewhere in unity we can replace it with
<and471> ok cool
<kamstrup> and471: so leave that bit as is, and we'll see what kvalo says
<and471> and then for those custom widgets I added comments
<and471> k
<and471> kamstrup, so I think that is it?
<kamstrup> and471: yup, we nailed all of the points
<and471> cool
<and471> kamstrup, well my router is being a pain at the moment, but I think I pushed the changes to my branch
<and471> kamstrup, when I get http access I will update the merge request so kalle can merge that into his branch
<kamstrup> and471: ok, awesome, we can prolly land it tomorrow then
<and471> kamstrup, anyway nice meeting you and thanks for the prompt reply :)
<kamstrup> and471: super, i'll just update the merge rq with the conclusion so far
<and471> cool thanks
<pitti> good night everyone
<geser> how do I push a change for a lp:~ubuntu-desktop branch back to LP so I can open a merge proposal for it?
<seb128> geser, just push it to lp:~geser...
<seb128> geser, well somewhere where you have commit access then you can do a merge proposal
<geser> I'm trying to figure out what I should replace the "..." with that works
<Amaranth> geser: replace ~ubuntu-desktop with ~geser
<Amaranth> otherwise leave the rest of the path the same
<geser> hmm, the second time it seemed to have worked
<geser> or not
<geser> seemed to have worked the first time, bzr seems to confuse me
<mvo> seb128: just update it, should be fine
<geser> anyone free to review/sponsor/merge https://code.launchpad.net/~geser/gnome-system-tools/fix-add-needed-linking/+merge/45278
<milanbv> geser: what's the bug?
<milanbv> I'm gst's maintainer, and I generally like avoiding downstream patches ;-)
<geser> milanbv: no bugnumber (yet), one issue was that "cracklib2-dev" is now "libcrack2-dev" and the other a fix for linking with --add-needed
<milanbv> geser: the first issue is OK with me since that's Debian/Ubuntu specific
<geser> milanbv: see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~geser/gnome-system-tools/fix-add-needed-linking/revision/58 for the patch for the other issue
<milanbv> but what's the second one?
<milanbv> sounds weird you need to pass e-map.a before libs
<geser> I don't fully understand it myself
<milanbv> hm
<milanbv> at any rate 1) it should go upstream if it's really needed
<milanbv> and 2) time_admin_DEPENDENCIES should be reordered for consistency
<geser> milanbv: see http://paste.ubuntu.com/550656/ for the error I got when trying to build in Ubuntu natty
<mterry> Ahhh...  /me finally squishes the bug preventing Help->Contents from working in GNOME
<milanbv> geser: is that from a clean source tree?
<geser> milanbv: I took the packaged version from Ubuntu natty (to fix issue 1) and run into this when I tried to build the "fixed" package in my pbuilder
<milanbv> really looks like some lib wasn't rebuilt correctly
<milanbv> if e-map.c is using an old version of GTK, passing it in the end will fail
<milanbv> and passing it before will work because it's overridden by other libs
<milanbv> geser: but maybe you had tried to build it before that?
<geser> what you mean with "before that"?
<milanbv> what you did with the patch
<milanbv> changing the order of vars
<milanbv> this kind of error usually comes from a lib version mismatch
<geser> I first fixed only issue 1 (cracklib2-dev) and tried building that and got this error, so had to fix it too
<milanbv> here, the ATK which has been used to build GTK+ isn't the one that is passed to the linker
<milanbv> (and API changes occurred in the meantime)
<milanbv> geser: OK, so please try with a clean source package
<geser> I updated my natty pbuilder and it's a clean minimal chroot
<geser> so both libgtk and libatk got fetched from the archive
<geser> or could this issue also be in the debs in the Ubuntu archive?
<cyphermox> kenvandine, you there?
<kenvandine> hey cyphermox
<milanbv> geser: still doesn't work?
<milanbv> it could be in the archives
<cyphermox> kenvandine, can I bug you to review https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu-mono/secure-icons/+merge/45268 ?
<geser> milanbv: didn't try again, will try it out in a few minutes and let you know
<kenvandine> cyphermox, will do
<milanbv> geser: there seems to be a mix of /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so and -latk-1.0
<milanbv> which in the context of pbuilder will fail if your system isn't using the same versions
<cyphermox> kenvandine, thanks. sorry for bugging, but I need to have at least some icons available before uploading a new nm-applet with a bunch of fixes ;)
<kenvandine> understand
<kenvandine> i look forward to having the icons :)
<cyphermox> and animations ;)
<kenvandine> hum... so postinst? instead of at build time?
<cyphermox> yeah, suggested by sladen to composite them at install time
<kenvandine> ok, i guess it keeps the size down :)
<cyphermox> yeah, mostly that's the point
<cyphermox> plus I'm just reusing those icons putting them together to make a new one
<milanbv> geser: I've found the problem
<milanbv> dbus deps explicitly add -L to the commandline, and this brings in GTK+ from /usr/lib
<milanbv> sorry gtg
<aquarius> fta, ping?
<fta> aquarius, pong
<aquarius> fta, heya: I'm running chromium from the dev PPA, and it doesn't seem to support the <video> element at all? Is that known?
<fta> aquarius, known issue, coming from our system libvpx
<aquarius> fta, this is where you say: don't run the dev version :)
<aquarius> fta, ah, OK; any idea of when it might be fixed? No hassle, just curious :)
<fta> aquarius, either when someone sync libvpx from debian/experimental, or if i stop using this system lib.
<aquarius> fta, ah, ok, gotcha
<micahg> fta: someone opened an update request, but didn't request a sync, I'll fix it up later
<fta> micahg, that won't solve the problem completely, think lucid/maverick..
<fta> well, maybe it will, as i auto-backport this lib in the ppa
<fta> we'll see
<geser> milanbv: inside the pbuilder is only one version of libatk1.0-0 and libgtk2.0-0 (through the build-dependencies) installed, so shouldnboth /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so and
<geser> milanbv: inside the pbuilder is only one version of libatk1.0-0 and libgtk2.0-0 (through the build-dependencies) installed, so shouldn't both /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so and -latk-1.0 point to the same .so file?
<rodrigo_> TheMuso, tremolux: ping
<TheMuso> rodrigo_: pong
<rodrigo_> TheMuso, I talked with tremolux before to have a call on Friday about the a11y work on unity, is that ok?
<TheMuso> Hrm ok.
<TheMuso> that should be fine.
<rodrigo_> what time is ok for you?
<rodrigo_> well, I'll send a mail and we decide on the mail, ok?
<TheMuso> sounds good
 * Amaranth curses banshee
<tremolux> cool, thanks rodrigo_, TheMuso
 * cyphermox -> eod
<milanbv> geser: yes, but the problem is that for some weird reason, dbus pulls libs from /usr/lib that shouldn't be used in pbuilder
<milanbv> maybe libdbus should also be pbuilder-specific
<ebroder> hey all - i'm looking into changing g-s-d to default to a cloned mode instead of extended when a monitor is hotplugged. we talked about this at uds, but we didn't really do a good job of generalizing the behavior for more than 1 or 2 monitors. anybody have thoughts on what exactly should be done, say, if there are two monitors configured and a 3rd gets hotplugged?
<geser> milanbv: I know that I don't understand much about linking, so I've problems to understand which libs got pulled in that shouldn't and why they make problems
<geser> I'll try later (or tomorrow) how a PPA build without the 2nd change goes
<alecu> ebroder, +1 on cloned instead of extended. It's really troublesome when giving presentations, because no presentation software (that I've tried) has good support for multimonitors right now
<ebroder> right now the behavior is that g-s-d lays out each of the new outputs to the right of the existing layout, removes any outputs that are now disconnected, and shifts to the left as necessary to avoid holes in the layout
<alecu> ebroder, as for a 3rd monitor... perhaps using the current setting would be a reasonable default? (ie: cloned if it was 2 screens cloned, extended if 2 screens extended)
<alecu> ebroder, that sounds like a nice arrangement.
<ebroder> alecu: that still doesn't generalize well. what if i have two outputs that are cloned, one that's extended, and i then hotplug a fourth monitor?
<alecu> ebroder, what about including that as a gconf setting? that way we would be able to set it as needed.
<ebroder> alecu: yeah, i'd like to do that
<ebroder> i guess clone-by-default could mean clone-the-primary-output-by-default?
<milanbv> geser: yeah, a clean rebuild is definitely the first thing to try
<milanbv> second is to check libdbus
<milanbv> but let's say we'll deal with that tomorrow :-)
<milanbv> good night!
<geser> good night milanbv
<alecu> ebroder, the checkbox in "Monitor Preferences" says "Same image in all monitors"...
<alecu> ebroder, so I don't understand how that 4 monitor scenario could happen (other than manual fiddling)
<ebroder> alecu: i think that may be a bit deceptive. i think bryceh or RAOF said that that dialog can only ever deal with 2 monitors
<alecu> oh, ok.
<alecu> ebroder, well... if that checkbox state was saved between plugs/unplugs, then I would be a happy presentation-giver
<fta> is the sound indicator currently broken in natty? or is it just me?
<alecu> I mean the "Same image in all monitors" checkbox in the current dialog.
<alecu> ebroder, also, that setting should be shown on the menu on the icon that's shown in the indicator panel when "show monitors in panel" is checked.
<alecu> in fact, those are the two things that bug me when I'm using a projector, and I always forget to add bugs for them :-)
<bryceh> yeah, the gnome monitor capplet was designed assuming no more than 2 monitors
<bryceh> anything more than that, you're going to be constructing xrandr commandlines to get what you want
<micahg> there are arandr and grandr in universe
<ebroder> bryceh: right, i'm more interested in fighting with the g-s-d plugin than the capplet
<ebroder> looking at the spec again, defaulting to cloning the primary output seems like the most reasonable thing
<ebroder> oh, hmm. i mis-characterized the current code. it doesn't actually look like it will preserve the current layout at all - it'll just reset everything to extend
<ebroder> which seems even worse
<bryceh> ebroder, hmm
<bryceh> ebroder, seems like it's defaulted to mirror when I've played with it
<ebroder> bryceh: X does that when the server starts, but if you hotplug a monitor once the server's running, g-s-d's xrandr plugin determines the config
<ebroder> (auto_configure_outputs in plugins/xrandr/gsd-xrandr-manager.c)
<bryceh> ebroder, ahh
<ebroder> bryceh: i suspect that the difference between those two is part of why people are convinced that linux's multi-monitor handling is random
<bryceh> heh you could be right
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-06
<ebroder> bryceh: hmm, i may have been wrong. it looks like there's code in g-s-d to set an initial randr mode based on previous configurations, or cloned mode failing that. but that code path is still separate from the code path that handles hotplugs (which extends)
<ebroder> that being said, it looks like the behavior is different in the 2.91 branch, which i assume actually means "gnome 3"? should i expect that we'll be switching to that by natty?
<bryceh> ebroder, you'd have to ask seb128, I'm not sure
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
 * pitti needs to disappear for ~ 1 h
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
 * mpt tries to find the gtk2 source package in Launchpad
<didrocks> mpt: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0
<mpt> thank you didrocks
<didrocks> mpt: you're welcome
<mpt> And now I could get distracted for 20 minutes reporting half a dozen bugs on Launchpad's source package search...
<didrocks> hehe :)
<didrocks> mpt: btw, between two bug reports, can you answer/provides some info on that thread on the ayatana ML: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg04544.html
<didrocks> because despite my message, they ignore it and continue to work on that feature :)
<mpt> sure thing
<didrocks> thanks
<seb128> hey
<pitti> not a good day for our French mate
<seb128> waouh, internet is back!
<didrocks> seems you're right :)
<seb128> hey pitti
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<pitti> wb seb128
<seb128> over an hour I couldn't connect longer than 30 seconds
<seb128> before being disconnected
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: how are you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks! working on my final natty spec
<didrocks> seb128: better than yesterday :)
<pitti> seb128: how about yourself?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> happy to have my internet back :p
<seb128> I managed to fetch emails between disconnections so I kept busy while it was down but I ran out of email to read ;-)
<didrocks> ahah :-)
<pitti> and there he goes again..
<didrocks> this one was on purpose, isn't it?
<seb128> that was an after morning upgrade session restart yes ;-)
<seb128> I should be quiet from now on ;-)
<pitti> no, don't! :)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> pitti: oh btw, do you know if there is a weechat option on nickname completion to avoid completing if there is more than one solution (and just not pick a smart one)?
<didrocks> pitti: I looked at the documentation without any success
<pitti> didrocks: I didn't find anything either
<pitti> didrocks: perhaps it's nick_first_only, I didn't try that
<didrocks> that's weird, you have a huge toolbox of options and this one isn't there :)
<didrocks> pitti: no, I tried itâ¦
<geser> pitti: have you time to review/sponsor/merge https://code.launchpad.net/~geser/gnome-system-tools/fix-add-needed-linking/+merge/45278 ?
<pitti> geser: sure, thanks for fixing that! looking
<cyphermox> mornin'...
<geser> pitti: I've also had a discussion with milanbv yesterday why the "linking" patch is needed (and why it works; milanbv assumed an issue with my pbuilder)
<pitti> geser: ah, so it was the linking order after all
<geser> pitti: yes, but I still don't understand why this fixes it
<geser> doko mentioned that the libemap.a at the end of the linker call (from my pastebin) looked odd so I tried to move it around and it worked for some reason
<milanbv> pitti: about https://code.launchpad.net/~geser/gnome-system-tools/fix-add-needed-linking/+merge/45278
<milanbv> do you have an explanation of the linking bug that's fixed by this merge?
<geser> milanbv: Hi, I've tried to build gst with only the "cracklib" change in my PPA and it failed
<pitti> milanbv: I don't truly understand it TBH; I know that the order of -l matters, but I'm not quite sure how
<milanbv> hi
<milanbv> doesn't make sense to me
<geser> milanbv: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/61707580/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.gnome-system-tools_2.32.0-0ubuntu3~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<milanbv> why the hell our internal e-map lib should come first?!
<milanbv> and it always worked for cycles
<geser> that's without the reordering patch
<geser> when I add -Wl,--add-needed to the linker call, the linking works too (tried it out yesterday while trying to understand why the linking fails)
<milanbv> messing with ld without understanding what's going on is really not a good idea
<milanbv> (I guess that's more your problem than mine, though...)
<Laney> can banshee be seeded? pretty please? :-)
<geser> milanbv: do you have a better idea how to solve it (or at least figure out why the linking fails in the first place)?
<didrocks> pitti: wants me to handle banshee to be seeded now? ^^
<pitti> is the MIR approved? if so, please go ahead
<mvo_> so I give unity another go, but still no alt-f2 - what do others use ? gnome-do?
<didrocks> yes
<didrocks> ok, doing now :)
<pitti> didrocks: please only do a recommends, though :)
<pitti> ah, it's in main already
<Laney> no more pre-promoting!
<milanbv> geser: here I only have -Wl,-rpath, no -Wl,-add-needed
<seb128> mvo_, I use the classic session and enable unity in ccsm
<milanbv> geser: but no, I don't have a better idea
<mvo_> seb128: aha, so both unity and normal panel? interessting
<milanbv> I just know fixes that involve reordering args in the dark in such weird things as linkers are not a good idea
<mvo_> now is the time that I want "show me similar apps" in software-center
<didrocks> hum, I was lagging, not sure you received my messages
<seb128> mvo_, right, one gnome-panel tweaked to just have the menus and not displayed by default
<seb128> mvo_, it allows to do alt-f1 and alt-f2
<seb128> mvo_, i.e get menus and run a command
<mvo_> haha, grun, that looks like the minimal answer
<seb128> didrocks, which ones?
 * didrocks got used to ctrl + alt + T
<milanbv> this sounds really wrong: "/usr/lib/libatk-1.0.so: could not read symbols: Invalid operation"
<milanbv> geser: do you have the build log that succeeds?
<geser> milanbv: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/61709353/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.gnome-system-tools_2.32.0-0ubuntu3_BUILDING.txt.gz
<didrocks> reâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, so it's not only me having internet issues ;-)
<seb128> mvo_, update-manager doesn't like you pressing esc on the password prompt at all
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, FreeWifi is quite weird. This time, no more ejected an no more IP, but just lagging on IRC. I can still fetching my emails and do web browsingâ¦
<seb128> the ui is stucked on a spinning cursor now
<milanbv> geser: thanks
<milanbv> so the only difference is really the position of libemap.a
<didrocks> seb128: still first setp for getting a real connexion :/ I really hope it will be there once back from Dallas
<geser> milanbv: yes
<milanbv> either we know putting it at the beginning is the only right way, or there's a bug in ld
<milanbv> at any rate, the error message is not right
<milanbv> geser: and what's the --add-needed change?
<milanbv> seems --no-add-needed could OTC cause problems
<geser> milanbv: looking at e-map.c it uses atk_object_set_name, so libemap.a "needs" -latk-1.0. Through the reordering it comes now before the -latk-1.0 so it gets linked properly (just my guess)
<milanbv> geser: indeed, plausible explanation
<milanbv> but why should -latk-1.0 come after the lib that uses it?
<geser> that's due to --as-needed; only libs get really linked into the executable that got used by object files before the library itself on the command line (as far as I understand it)
<milanbv> OK, sounds correct
<milanbv> but isn't --as-needed the default already?
<geser> yes, before it was --no-as-needed and all libs got linked in which got specified on the linker call (even if not used by the executable)
<milanbv> geser: OK, so that is a good explanation enough for me to commit your fix upstream :-)
<milanbv> which e-mail address should I use with your name?
<geser> use the ubuntu one (geser@ubuntu.com)
<milanbv> geser: pushed! thanks for the debugging!
<pitti> geser, milanbv: nice, thanks!
<pitti> geser: this has always felt backwards to me, but indeed it's been like that forever
<pitti> (specify the dependency tree leafs last)
<mvo_> dobey: do you mind if I switch ubuntuone-clinet to dh_python2 instead of pysuppor? I just ran into 692566 and with dh_python2 its simpler to figure out if its a packaging issue or a upstream issue
<cyphermox> good morning! :)
<didrocks> hey cyphermox!
<alessandro_> hey anyone
<cyphermox> hey didrocks :)
<cyphermox> hi alessandro_
<dobey> bug 692566
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 692566 in ubuntuone-client (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "ImportError: No module named tools (affects: 4) (heat: 224)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692566
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<dobey> mvo_: ah, that is an upstream bug. switching to dh_python2 won't fix it. but it's already fixed in trunk. there are some other fixes we need to put in a release, hopefully today or tomorrow
<dobey> mvo_: so  please don't change the python system in the packaging
<mvo_> dobey: thanks, I noticed its a upstream bug, but python2 should make it easier to diangose as it will means that dpkg -L will list all the files in dist-packages, not only the pyshared stuff. its also more robust this way
<mvo_> dobey: whats the rational for sticking to pysupport? I'm happy to send you a debdiff for consideration
<mvo_> (its pretty tiny, basicly s/pysupport/python2/ in debian/rules
<dobey> mvo_: mainly the concern for impact on all the other ubuntuone python packages
<mvo_> ok, fair enough. I would still suggest to look into switching at some point, but its not urgent or anything
<kenvandine> cyphermox, so i noticed there is more work to be done for the icons, let me know when it is ready for another review
<mvo_> the new dh_python2 avoid building the symlinks at runtime, this has nice properties like that packages are still usable between unpack and configure and that its generally more robust
<mvo_> because its dpkg doing the file shuffling
<dobey> mvo_: ok. so it includes symlinks for all supported python versions directly in the package?
<mvo_> yes
<bcurtiswx> undefined symbol: menu_proxy_module_load , anyone know what causes this error with GTK3 ?
<seb128> the lack of appmenu-gtk for gtk3
<seb128> I guess
<cyphermox> kenvandine, thanks, I spoke to sladen last night and he took care of the review, some additional changes, and uploaded. sorry for the noise
<bcurtiswx> seb128, is that a planned thing or is it buildable yet?
<seb128> it should be done but it's not done yet
<seb128> unset UBUNTU_MENUPROXY
<seb128> I guess
<seb128> ^ try that one
<bcurtiswx> i still have to unset SSH_AUTH_SOCK in order to get bzr to work
<bcurtiswx> and OK
<seb128> check with rodrigo about the ssh thing
<bcurtiswx> also, what may cause unity not to load with ubuntu desktop on login, but upon typing unity in ubuntu classic desktop it works fine
<seb128> unity is not supposed to be loaded in the classic session
<seb128> classic is standard GNOME
<bcurtiswx> seb128, yes im saying it doesn't load on login to the regular desktop session (not classic)
<seb128> unity --reset?
<bcurtiswx> on the regular desktop session?  because I can't load anythign it just stays with the rotating circlular thing forever
<seb128> didrocks, ^ seen that before?
<didrocks> hum, no, I didn't
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: you always had that?
<didrocks> or it just started recently?
<bcurtiswx> i've had it for a good few weeks now
<didrocks> can you launch a terminal there?
<bcurtiswx> i do use the GNOME3 PPA.. so as usually i throw that disclaimer out there as a probable cause
<didrocks> oh, the GNOME3 PPAâ¦
<didrocks> so you don't have the right gnome-session I guess
<didrocks> apt-cache policy gnome-session?
<bcurtiswx> Installed: 2.32.1-0ubuntu8
<bcurtiswx> =  Candidate: 2.32.1-0ubuntu8
<didrocks> hum, it's the right session
<didrocks> what would be useful is to see what's running in the session
<bcurtiswx> is there a GTK3 gnome-session?
<didrocks> either from a tty or whatever
<didrocks> gnome-session3 IIRC
<didrocks> and did you try unity --reset ?
<seb128> well gnome-session works
<seb128> otherwise the classic session would not work
<bcurtiswx> yes my classic session works
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I was just wondering if the ppa contained another package without my patches
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3
<bcurtiswx> those are the potential trouble makers
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: did you try unity --reset?
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, sorry meant to ask if this was happening in the regular or classic session ?
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: you can run it where you want, it will reset the profiles
<didrocks> then, try to log in the regular session
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, Ok i'll logout/in now.. i did the reset and there were errors.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/551085/ brb
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: did unity launched?
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> ok
<Laney> didrocks: I'm not sure you need to explicitly seed banshee u1ms as it is recommended by banshee
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, I asked that myself if I should or not. Not a real bugger in any case as it's just a recommends
<Laney> sure
<didrocks> I took that decision because it was that way for rhythmbox (but rhythmbox didn't recommended u1ms)
<seb128> didrocks, should the oneconf work items be set to a later target?
<seb128> didrocks, seems they will not make a2 and since desktopcouch got dropped from the CD anyway...
<didrocks> seb128: we discussed it yesterday with pitti. I guess that will be a 2/3 days work and I think to spent at least one day on it during the rally
<didrocks> dropped from the CD, but reinstalled from ubiquity once neededâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I was just trying to get the chart back under the trend line a bit
<didrocks> seb128: most of items are small or can be easily postponed. I think we will have a clearer view after the rally
<didrocks> depends on the preemption rate in the unity side :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> yw
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, didn't work.  i sent you a png in email of my tty1 session trying to reset unity
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: did you check from tty1 what was running when your session hangs?
<bcurtiswx> i did a top, nothing seemed out of the ordinary (no cpu usage more than 1%)
<didrocks> ps aux | grep met ;  ps aux | grep compiz
<didrocks> to see which wm is running
<bcurtiswx> anything else since i need to keep logout/in to do this?
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: you have a segfault, it's as easy as that
<didrocks> weird thoughâ¦
<didrocks> which version of compiz do you have ?
<bcurtiswx> Installed: 1:0.9.2.1+glibmainloop3-0ubuntu5
<didrocks> ok, so, what do you have in /var/crash?
<didrocks> ls /var/crash/*compiz*
<bcurtiswx> nothing compiz
<didrocks> ok, can you enable apport and report the crash, please?
<didrocks> that will be the easiest way
<bcurtiswx> apport isn't enabled by default eyt ?
<bcurtiswx> yet*
<bcurtiswx> ok how to enable apport?
<didrocks> no, it will be after alpha2
<didrocks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
<pitti> mvo_: using p-apt, is there a way to find out which packages a given repository provides? I mean other than diff'ing Cache().keys() before and afterwards?
<mvo_> pitti: you can walk the cache and look at the "origin" attribute of the candidate version
<nessita> hello everyone!
<pitti> mvo_: ah, ok; thanks!
<pitti> hey nessita, how are you?
<nessita> didrocks: have a few moments for a few unity questions? (you may redirect me to someone else)
<seb128> hey nessita
<seb128> nessita, just ask on the channel
<didrocks> hey nessita, sure
<nessita> pitti: hey there! I'm pretty good, looking forward the rally next week, I have tons of questions for you all :-P
<didrocks> nessita: I'll have questions for you as well for integrating oneconf with u1 crendentials and ubiquityâ¦
<didrocks> but during the rally will be easier :)
<nessita> didrocks: currently, ubuntuone has a gconf plugin where the user is notified if he rans out of space in the cloud to upload files. Will that gconf plugin mechanism be available in natty/unity?
<dobey> gsd
<seb128> yes
<nessita> dobey: gconf != gsd?
<didrocks> yes, it wil
<dobey> nessita: no
<seb128> well we will discuss what we do for GNOME next week
<seb128> but we will likely stay on 2.32
<dobey> nessita: but i'm sure g-s-d has to be run for unity to keep the theme/etc in check
<seb128> correct
<didrocks> g-s-d doesn't theme the unity shell itself though, it's just planned
<seb128> nessita, gconf is a setting storage system, gsd is a session service which apply settings and other things
<nessita> seb128: : ok, because we currently have a nasty bug where we flood the user with those notifications when he's out of quota, so we need to define how to solve it. alecu is working on that, and he's attending to the rally, so I will suggest that he attend to that meeting
<seb128> didrocks, I think they don't care much about details, they just want to know if their g-s-d code will be active ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I was more answering to dobey on that detail :)
<dobey> didrocks: yes, but every other gtk+ app still gets the theme from the GtkSettings which are set by g-s-d from the gconf keys :)
<didrocks> dobey: sure
<pitti> nessita: like, where the next Shisha bar is? :-)
<nessita> pitti: how dare you! :-D
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, OK.. so there were crashes reported in compiz and nautilus.. the compiz one I reported but it may be a dup (wil get bug num shortly) the nautilus one doesn't report because it says it's "not a genuine ubuntu package"
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: in any case, let's focus on the compiz package first, so that it can get retraced and such. It will be dupped automatically if it was already reported with a stacktrace
<nessita> seb128, didrocks: all that is very useful info, but I still don't get the full picture. I'll rephrase: if we need to show the user a message/notification stating that the free space in U1 is fulled, what's the recommended mechanism to use to integrate best with unity?
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, bug #698144
<ubot2> bcurtiswx: Bug 698144 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/698144 is private
<didrocks> nessita: you have a service running? why not just using the notification API?
<didrocks> hum, I don't have the perm to look at the bug report
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, neither compiz or metacity showed up in the ps aux while in the tty1
<didrocks> yeah, as compiz is crashing
<didrocks> and then respawn and such
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: can you subscribe me to the bug report so that I can get access, please?
<bcurtiswx> already beat you to it ;)
<bcurtiswx> done
<seb128> nessita, the situation under unity is not any different from under GNOME
<nessita> didrocks: because I don't know what that is? :-)
 * nessita googles
<seb128> nessita, notify-osd, libnotify
<didrocks> nessita: in python, it should be python-notify
<seb128> didrocks, well the question is rather what service has the code which does the checks and send the notifications
<dobey> didrocks: because notifications aren't interactive, and the idea was to provide a "Buy more storage space" button
<seb128> you should really do that from one of the u1 services
<didrocks> +1
<seb128> using g-s-d seems to be abusing something not done for that
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: it's a dup, weird you get that even with the workaround
<seb128> session restart brb
<didrocks> dobey: the API can have action as well, it's just that we have a fallback to show a window in this case in Ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, unity in the classic session works.. which IMO makes it doubley werid
<didrocks> bcurtiswx: it's a known raced issue at startup
<nessita> didrocks: do you have a pointer for alecu to look at?
<nessita> didrocks: pointer as in api doc
<dobey> didrocks: the g-s-d extension does other stuff too
<didrocks> nessita: what service is doing it?
<dobey> didrocks: so what process owns the dialog is probably irrelevant
<didrocks> dobey: hum, like?
<didrocks> I have /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-login running since this morning
<dobey> didrocks: adding Ubuntu One to the bookmarks if it's not already there, and hasn't already been added
<nessita> didrocks: the dbus event is being emitted by the dbus service of syncdaemon, which is UI agnostic. So we shouldn't add UI dependencies to it
<nessita> didrocks: I guess that we can add that to the control panel backend service
<dobey> nessita: python-notify doesn't have ui
<didrocks> nessita: the UI is handled by the API, that's not the issue, so it's agnostic
<dobey> nessita: it just sends a dbus message to another process which handles the UI
<didrocks> exactly
<nessita> hum
<nessita> ok, gotta go to the dentist, I'll will come back to this later
<dobey> but either way, it doesn't much matter. we can't change to libnotify in maverick
<nessita> thanks a lot for the info!
<didrocks> libnotify-doc has the doc
<didrocks> dobey: are you working in maverick?
<didrocks> nessitaway: ^
<nessitaway> didrocks: no, this is for natty
<dobey> didrocks: the bug is in maverick as well, so we need to sru it
<nessitaway> didrocks: for maverick we'll probably just remove the plugin
<didrocks> yeah, all changes (ui and such) seems to big to qualify for an SRU
<nessitaway> now yes, I'm gone! brbs
<didrocks> nessitaway: good luck with the dentist :)
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, i just got a crash like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/684445
<ubot2> bcurtiswx: Error: Bug #684445 is private.
<bcurtiswx> see fi u can see that one?
<didrocks> yes
<didrocks> let's wait for it being retraced first
<bcurtiswx> well that one was retraced
<bcurtiswx> its not mine
<didrocks> I was speaking about the other one
<bcurtiswx> ah OK
<bcurtiswx> sry
<didrocks> well, this one is not with our main use case, let's first try to fix the tons of bugs with have by default :)
<seb128> re
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, retraced
<mterry> seb128, you having session problems today?  :)
<seb128> mterry, sort of, rather debugging things which require to restart my session
<mterry> seb128, I updated g-c-c with backported support for setting web and mail apps.  Media is going to be a bit trickier, but that will come next
<seb128> I've noticed the upload, thanks
<seb128> do we care enough about the media one to do the work?
<mterry> seb128, well, there may be a disconnect between the setting there and what happens when you double click a media file in nautilus
<mterry> seb128, with no way to fix what happens on double click
<mterry> or download a file or some such
<seb128> that's there since warty
<seb128> the media tab is only used when you use the media key on the keyboard to start your player iirc
<mterry> seb128, oh really?  That's a bug today?  :)  what does the media UI setting control then?
<seb128> when you click on something the type is used
<seb128> you can change by right clicking and open with in nautilus
<seb128> but that's type dependant
<mterry> seb128, gross.  Then I guess there's no urgency to fix that.  g-c-c 3.0 has a new panel for controlling media the right way
<seb128> like mp3 and ogg can have different handlers
<mterry> Was going to backport it, but sounds less urgent if we at least don't have a regression today
<geser> didrocks: re my gnome-panel issue: I've looked at the applied patches and when I remove the # before "X-GNOME-Autostart-Phase=Panel" in gnome-panel.desktop again, my issue seems to be gone (the panel is visible after autologin). could it be some timing issue somewhere?
<mterry> seb128, OK, so I won't work on this right now then
<didrocks> geser: yeah, probably, so starting it in the application phase seems to not work well, that's a nice idea also for workarounding some other panel issue we get. Thanks for the nice!
<seb128> mterry, ok, there is other items to pick on the gnome3 spec if you want
<mterry> seb128, sure...
<seb128> mterry, like displayed a restart notification when a software migrating from gconf to gsettings is installed
<mterry> seb128, ah yes
<mterry> seb128, that will be interesting.  OK
<seb128> mterry, great, thanks ;-)
<geser> didrocks: for reference this is 05_no_session_delay.patch
<didrocks> geser: yeah, it was introduced in lucid IIRC
<didrocks> that will help, thanks geser :)
<ebroder> seb128: i'm looking into the g-s-d changes for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-desktop-n-xorg-multihead-defaults and was wondering whether you expected the gnome3 settings to land for natty or not (i.e. which version i should be working against)?
<seb128> ebroder, no, GNOME3 will probably only be in a ppa this cycle
<ebroder> ok, thanks
<mterry> seb128, oh, thanks for closing that bug.  I forgot there was a bug for the g-c-c backport
<geser> kenvandine: Hi, when you have some time for sponsoring: bug 698205
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 698205 in ido (Ubuntu) "Fix linking with "ld --add-needed" (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/698205
<kenvandine> geser, ok, i'll look at it in a bit
<nessita> so, ubuntu-sso-login got a bug report where:
<nessita> Â Â Â File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.7/gtk-2.0/gi/__init__.py", line 27, in <module>
<nessita> Â Â Â Â Â from gi.repository import GObject
<nessita> Â ImportError: cannot import name GObject
<nessita> is that known? or transient?
<kenvandine> geser, uploaded
<kenvandine> geser, can you propose a merge to ido upstream?
<mterry> seb128, I did the gsettings trigger thing, but since it's my first trigger, I thought it wise to get a review first: https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/gconf/ubuntu-gsettings-trigger/+merge/45427
<mterry> seb128, in particular, my use of a cache file.  Not sure how standard that is
<mterry> seb128, it would be nice if there were a way to say "relogin required" instead of "reboot required"
<geser> kenvandine: sure, will prepare one
<kenvandine> thx
<mterry> nessita, is gir1.2-glib-2.0 on the system?
<mterry> nessita, if not, then the packaging should add such a Depends
<mterry> nessita, it won't be automatically added by python:Depends
<nessita> mterry: but... as far as I know, ubuntu-sso-client does not depend on gir1.2-glib-2.0
<nessita> mterry: so there may be a lower layer that depends on that and is not listing that as Depends
<mterry> nessita, I see
<mterry> nessita, looks like python-gtk2 needs the Depends?
<mterry> or whatever provides gi/__init__.py
<mterry> Hrm, it's python-gobject and it does have the Depends
<mterry> Yeah, that error doesn't make sense to me either then  :)
<nessita> mterry: right, if I see something like this again, I will raise a flag, otherwise, may be a transient error
<seb128> re
<seb128> nessita, could be a bug in the install...is that for one user only?
<seb128> mterry, ok, will review that but maybe tomorrow morning, I'm just back from sport and will go for a shower and dinner now
<nessita> seb128: only one report so far, yes
<nessita> will keep an eye on that, though if it's an install issue it may come up with any app that uses python-gobject
<seb128> nessita, mterry: do you stay around for a bit still?
<nessita> seb128: yes, an hour approx
<seb128> if someone see robert_ancell could you tell him to backport http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=e738a8dd8ca3d3dd327bc5a3bbfd151858738609?
<seb128> it will fix gnome-panel crashing when clicking on a launcher
<mterry> seb128, yeah a bit
<seb128> I don't think I will have time to test it tonight
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> mterry, or if you want to do the backport feel free
<mterry> seb128, sure, that would be a good last task for the day
<seb128> great
<pitti> good night everyone
<seb128> 'night pitti
<mterry> seb128, is there an ubuntu bug for that patch?
<seb128> bug #698131
<seb128> mterry, ^
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 698131 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[Natty] New glib2.0_2.27.90-0ubuntu1 crashes gnome-panels (affects: 7) (dups: 2) (heat: 48)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/698131
<mterry> thx
<seb128> bug #698275
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 698275 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "everytime i click an icon on the upper panel in gnome the panels dissappear (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/698275
<mterry> seb128, more generally, how can I search LP for bugs that link to an upstream bug?
<mterry> (if I know the upstream bug URL)
<seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/
<seb128> you can add the bug number to it
<seb128> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/<bug>
<seb128> mterry, ^
<mterry> seb128, yup
<seb128> need to run, I will be back for a bit after dinner
<seb128> bbl
<mterry> guh, I don't have permission to update glib2.0 it seems
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-07
 * JackyAlcine looks around; wonders if anyone's alive.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! how are you?
<pitti> wrap-up and packing day today :)
<didrocks> still a little cold, but that will be fixed by tomorrow evening I guess :)
<didrocks> and yeah, need to pack this afternoon as well
<pitti> kenvandine: is bug 666511 fixed in natty?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 666511 in tomboy (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 4 other projects) "Note data loss with Tomboy sync to Ubuntu One, for notes created in Gnote (affects: 1) (heat: 55)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666511
<seb128> hello!
<pitti> bonjour Monsieur!
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> pretty well, thanks! looking forward to the sprint
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> just got my flight tickets
<pitti> still want to wrap up some stuff today to have a clean table
<seb128> pitti, got your flight tickets?
<seb128> pitti, like switched back from eticket to printed paper ones?
<pitti> seb128: boarding passes, I mean
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> seb128: no, to my phone of course
<pitti> email with a QR code attachment
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: my printer has been pretty broken for the last year, it's very faint
<pitti> but as I almost never have to print stuff, I didn't get a new one yet
<seb128> I need to update the wiki, my flight infos are wrong there I think
<pitti> I can get mobile tickets for the trains, flights, etc.
<seb128> yeah, my printer is out of order as well...
<mvo> pitti: oh, that works for trains now too? thats cool
<seb128> but I don't do tickets, I just go the airport with my passport and they sort if for me :p
<pitti> since I got an ebook and a smartphone, my printer is just collecting dust :)
<pitti> mvo: for ages already, yes; pretty nice
<pitti> mvo: they send you an MMS
<pitti> mvo: you can ask bahn.de for sending you a test ticket, to see if it works
<pitti> mvo: you just have to live with the conductor's stamp marks on your mobile :-P
<mvo> pitti: lol
<mvo> pitti: cool, I was not aware of this, thats cool
<pitti> mvo: you essentially get the matrix code that you also have on the printed tickets
<pitti> mvo: i. e. they use the very same scanners
 * mvo nods
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<geser> kenvandine: I tried to create a branch for the ido change you sponsored yesterday, but LP doesn't allow me to create a branch (bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: "~geser/ido/fix-linking-no-add-needed/": : You cannot create branches in "~geser/ido").
<seb128> heh
<seb128> pitti, you clean asac's bugs? what did he pay you to do the work? ;-)
<seb128> if you want to clean my bugs please do ;-)
<pitti> seb128: you couldn't afford it
<pitti> asac promised me half of his house, 50 sheep, and free beer for a lifetime
<seb128> hum, yeah, it's over my budget
<seb128> :-)
<pitti> seb128: Jason asked me to, as asac is not really active on the desktop any more; so I went through, cleaned up, and fished out the important ones
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, do we have a way to track what bugs come from team assignment?
<seb128> like bugs assigned to the team and dispatched
<pitti> seb128: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-desktop-team-assigned-bug-tasks.html ?
<seb128> in opposite to pet bugs people assigned themself
<seb128> pitti, will that will list pet bugs from team members as well?
<pitti> Chris wins :)
<seb128> ideally we only want to track the first ones
<pitti> seb128: it's "bugs assigned to c-d-t" and "bugs assigned to c-d-t members"
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: but we don't have a list of bugs that were originally assigned to cdt and then moved to some person
<seb128> things is "c-d-t members bugs" include pet bugs and assigned bugs
<pitti> that'd be quite hard to track
<pitti> right
<seb128> well that's what we would like to track
<pitti> but a lot of bugs get directly assigned as well, no?
<seb128> those are the bugs that we should aim at fixing
<pitti> meh, I'm not sure what happens, but it seems to me that each new firefox gets slower
<seb128> well "official" escalation go through the team usually
<seb128> I'm just trying to figure how we go to stop dropping bugs on the way
<seb128> they go to the team, then are dispatched then we stop tracking them efficiently
<pitti> the expectancy is that people care about the bugs assigned to them
<pitti> if not, then this doesn't work, of course
<pitti> but at some point each member has to check "their" bugs
<seb128> I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen in practice
<seb128> see some of the bugs you just unassigned from asac
<JackyAlcine> Guys, I want to push a patch for pulseaudio, but I can't for some reason.
<pitti> oh, today's CDs have banshee now
<pitti> didrocks: ^ you didn't unseed rhythmbox at the same time?
<pitti> didrocks: CDs are now oversized, banshee added some 4.5 MB
<pitti> dropping RB and the plugins shoudl help a bit
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't recreate the ubuntu-desktop metapackage, thinking we were waiting for other changes
<didrocks> pitti: that should have been pulled it again, doing an upload now
<pitti> didrocks: about 1.5 MB actually
<pitti> didrocks: hm, perhaps banshee is a dependency of something
<didrocks> pitti: no, it's just that we install ubuntu-desktop which, as not being refreshed, still recommends rhythmbox, isn't it?
<pitti> didrocks: right
<pitti> didrocks: but what pulls in banshee then?
<pitti> I don't see an rdepends
<didrocks> pitti: I changed the seed
<pitti> that alone wouldn't pull it in, though
<didrocks> oh really?
<pitti> if you change "desktop", you need to rebuild the meta packge
<didrocks> I was thinking that changing the seed -> impacts the CD with or without having it in the metapackage
<pitti> hm
<pitti> could be
<pitti> but I thought it wasn't
<didrocks> well, at least, let's refresh the metapackage now, on it once it will be downloaded with my slow connexion :)
<pitti> didrocks: I can do it as well
<pitti> didrocks: I'll update it then, don't worry
<asac> didrocks: can you get banshee seeded?
<pitti> asac: already happened
<didrocks> asac: it's done
<didrocks> pitti: ok, thanks :)
<asac> ah
<asac> ;)
<asac> ok setting MIR bug back to fix committed
<pitti> asac: why? it got promoted
<asac> oh even that
<asac> well ... doko bounced it back to incomplete
<pitti> someone jumped on the promotion right after the MIR got approved
<pitti> oh
<asac> (because it was not seeded)
<pitti> ah
<pitti> so, sounds like "fix released" then
<asac> ok doing
 * pitti sheds a tear for rhythmbox
<asac> done
<pitti> I still don't like banshee
<asac> pitti: rhythmbox will come back strong
<asac> through arm team ;)
<Laney>  still available in the archive ;-)
<seb128> well rb is still there
<pitti> asac: or through apt-get install :)
 * Laney weeps for f-spot
<asac> hehe
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hiya
<seb128> Laney, speaking of f-spot I synced the new version from debian for you
<Laney> yeah I noticed, thanks
<seb128> Laney, that was ok right? ;-)
<Laney> forgot to do that!
<seb128> you're welcome
<pitti> I noticed that shotwell has a nonexisting search for photos (by tag and date range), otherwise it's quite nice
<pitti> I'd like to say "give me all photos which have tags a and b from teh last 3 years"
<seb128> yeah, it rocks
<Laney> it definitely has more manpower
<Laney> so better from that pov
<pitti> it seems quite odd to have a ncie support for XMP and tagging, and then not being able to actually use the tags
<seb128> did you check if there is some bugs about that?
<pitti> I will
<Laney> I wrote a photo manager for my undergraduate degree which did that
<pitti> didrocks: u-m uploaded
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<pitti> seb128: bug 625331 (has upstream bug, too)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 625331 in shotwell (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Multiple-tag research is not available (affects: 4) (heat: 39)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/625331
<pitti> seb128: ah, and arbitrary searches is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1587
<pitti> so it seems I'm not the first one :)
<pitti> (would have surprised me)
<^arky^> Hi, How solve this error "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz"
<geser> ^arky^: do you have zlib1g-dev installed?
<^arky^> geser, nope I am installing it now thanks
<kamstrup> mvo: can you help  me? my latest upgrade corrupted /var/lib/dpkg/available - do you know how I can regenerate it?
<soren> kamstrup: dselect update
<soren> kamstrup: See the --update-avail help in dpkg(1)'s man page for info.
<kamstrup> soren: thanks! that worked :-)
<soren> kamstrup: np :)
<mvo> kamstrup: corrupted it in what way? might be interessting to diagnose what happend and why
<kamstrup> mvo: I got errors from dpkg when I tried to install something: dpkg: parse error, in file '/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 0:
<kamstrup>  field name `/lib/modules/2.6.37-12-generic/kernel/drivers/i2c/algos/i2c-algo-bit.ko' must be followed by colon
<kamstrup> the first line contained a lot of garbage data
<kamstrup> removing that there where another similar garbage chunk in line 102
<kamstrup> it was prolly related to my last upgrade which had a weird error during the kernel installation
 * korben greets all
<mvo> kamstrup: ok, sounds scary, usually its some sort of memory corupption, often HW when this happens
<kamstrup> mvo: eeek - don't freak me out like that :-)
<mvo> heh :) sorry for sounding alarming
 * mvo mumbles about backups
<kamstrup> mvo: "Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it" -- Linus
<didrocks> hey korben
<mvo> kamstrup: haha - good answer!
<korben> hey all ;-)
<gnomefreak> was the launcher bar in "Desktop Edition" in Natty removed for a reason. seems that "Desktop Edition" and "Classic Edition" are the same now
<gnomefreak> launcher bar == the one along the left side of screen
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> gnomefreak: do you have unity installed?
<seb128> mvo, what is the official way to trigger a "restart is required"?
<seb128> mvo, do you ever consider doing a "restart your session is required"?
<pitti> didrocks: current daily desktop still starts gnome-panel under unity, is that expected?
<gnomefreak> didrocks: yes but let me check
<mvo> seb128: sudo /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required  ; sudo touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp
<didrocks> pitti: it's not, maybe the checker is timeouting
<mvo> seb128: the touch later is just for testing
<pitti> seb128: call /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required
<didrocks> pitti: you are running it under virtualbox?
<pitti> didrocks: no, on the mini 10
<gnomefreak> didrocks: unity Installed: 3.2.8-0ubuntu1
<pitti> didrocks: oh, does unity work in VB now?
<mvo> seb128: this will be done automatically when dpkg finished, so if you do it in the maintainer script just call the notify-reboot-required script
<seb128> mvo, pitti: ok, thanks, I though we were supposed to drop a file in a directory for some reason
<didrocks> pitti: with VB4, it is
<pitti> seb128: that's what the script does
<mvo> seb128: session restart, sure, that hsould be easy to do
<pitti> seb128: but it cares about translation and all that
<seb128> ok, great
<didrocks> pitti: can you try: /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test && echo $?
<pitti> didrocks: "0"
<seb128> didrocks, if the checker was timeouting you wouldn't get unity running though?
<didrocks> ok, can you put IsRunnableHelper=/bin/true in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session
<didrocks> seb128: it can, I didn't changed (yet) to unset the env variable if the session isn't set as I was certain we would get issue with the checker
<seb128> didrocks, could you just comment the line to do the same?
<didrocks> gnomefreak: maybe same issue
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: not sure, I don't remember on the code, can check
<seb128> mvo, is the system or session restart thing worth doing you think?
<didrocks> at least, /bin/true works for sure
<seb128> ok
<gnomefreak> didrocks: thanks. its seems for some reason unity wasnt loading
<didrocks> gnomefreak: can you try /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test && echo $?
<mvo> seb128: what apps will need a session restart?
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/gconf/ubuntu-gsettings-trigger/+merge/45427
<seb128> mvo, ^ btw if you want to review the check function that would be welcome
<seb128> nessita, hello!
<nessita> hello everyone!
<mvo> seb128: thanks, we can add the session-restart feature during the sprint, should be straightforward
<mvo> seb128: well, mostly :)
<seb128> mvo, do you want a bug?
<rodrigo_> hi nessita
<mvo> seb128: nÃ¤Ã¤, we see each other on sunday and you will nag me anyway, I know you
<nessita> hi rodrigo_, seb128
<seb128> mvo, right, I can even poke you during night if needed ;-)
<mvo> riiiiiiiight
<gnomefreak> didrocks: what was the command again?
<gnomefreak> it seems unity isnt running by default
<didrocks> gnomefreak: /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test ; echo $?
<gnomefreak> didrocks: all i got was a 0 after that command
<didrocks> gnomefreak: ok, so it should launch
<soren> 7win 61
<soren> Whoops
<didrocks> gnomefreak: when do you run "unity", do you get it?
<didrocks> s/do//
<gnomefreak> didrocks: yes when i ran unity from command line it launched
<didrocks> gnomefreak: ok, from a fresh login in the ubuntu desktop session, can you try env | grep COMP
<gnomefreak> gnomefreak@Development:~$ env | grep COMP
<gnomefreak> COMPIZ_CONFIG_PROFILE=ubuntu
<gnomefreak> that is from this session. where i didnt run unity. login refuses to load unity on its own
<seb128> is there anything in .xsession-errors?
<gnomefreak> seb128: didrocks http://paste.ubuntu.com/551466/
<didrocks> gnome-session[2196]: WARNING: Had to kill '/usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test' helper
<didrocks> so, it's timeouting
<seb128> how much is the timeout?
<didrocks> 500ms
<seb128> I guess it takes longer than that to run...
<didrocks> but it still should launch compiz + unity + gnome-panel
<seb128> well if the check fails it shouldn't?
<didrocks> seb128: depends, works well here, ~200 ms at cold start was the worst case
<seb128> well your box might be faster than others
<didrocks> seb128: as told before, it's going to the fallback section
<didrocks> knowing that some false positive can happened, it launches for now unity + gnome-panel
<seb128> ok
<seb128> weird then
<didrocks> but in any case, it should launch itâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, I guess change the check to "sleep 1" and see what happens?
<seb128> or sh -c sleep 1
<seb128> or a wrapper calling it
<didrocks> seb128: what happens is what pitti is seeing in the daily build on his mini10v
<didrocks> seb128: I aready tested it :)
<seb128> didrocks, why is pitti's one going to fallback btw? timeout as well?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, timeout I guess, hence my question of using /bin/true to test it's really the case
<seb128> or check .xsession-errors
<didrocks> but if it's a timeout, this behavior is expected
<didrocks> gnomefreak's one isn't
<seb128> right
<gnomefreak> didrocks: one isnt?
<didrocks> gnomefreak: the behavior you are seeing
<didrocks> meaning no unity
<gnomefreak> yeah i know i kind of miss it
<didrocks> gnomefreak: if you change to /bin/true as told above, do you see unity running?
<gnomefreak> didrocks: sorry i was lost. you want me to run unity with an argument /bin/true
<didrocks> gnomefreak: 13:44:42    didrocks | ok, can you put IsRunnableHelper=/bin/true in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session
<gnomefreak> didrocks: should i leave IsRunnableHelper=/usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test in there?
<didrocks> gnomefreak: no, replace it please
<gnomefreak> ok
<gnomefreak> ok done. i guess ill reboot and let you know if it loads. thanks
<mvo> didrocks: can I haz timezone display in the unity clock ?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mvo, you wish ;-)
<didrocks> mvo: depends how much you pay ted :)
<pitti> I can haz proper time format before?
<mvo> that too!
<mvo> proper timeformat +++
<pitti> Dear U.S., last time I checked a day had 24 hours, not 12!!!111!!one!
<didrocks> :)
<JackyAlcine> LOLL
<cyphermox> hi
<pitti> hey cyphermox, good morning
<cyphermox> pitti, hey
<cyphermox> I noticed you did a few reassignments for bugs in NM? :)
<pitti> cyphermox: yeah, I cleaned up asac's desktop-ish bugs and fished out the ones which we should really look at
<didrocks> hey cyphermox
<pitti> cyphermox: I think you earned two of them
<cyphermox> hey didrocks
<cyphermox> pitti, sure
<pitti> cyphermox: if you don't have time for them, please just unassign, but I wanted to run these by you at least
<cyphermox> there's a couple you touched that I saw are for sure fixed
<pitti> cyphermox: yes, I'm sure that 80% of the bug reports are either fixed or obsolete in a different way
<cyphermox> I'll just fish out the commit numbers and say in which release they are fixed, then we can figure out whether it's sru-able
<pitti> cyphermox: I didn't do a full triaging job, just cleaning up asac's bug as per jasoncwarner's and marjo's request
<cyphermox> sure... I should have done so long ago
<pitti> cyphermox: don't worry too much about it for now; if you could have a look at the two I sent to you, that'd be great, but don't take it as "OMGmustfixnow"
<cyphermox> pitti, i can go in omgmustfixnow mode shortly, I just want to fix one string and I can upload a new revision of nm-applet with the icons and everything
<pitti> no hurry
<pitti> cyphermox: e. g. the "netdev" one is just cleanup, but not urgent in any way
<pitti> cyphermox: perhaps you should coordinate with pedro_ about a hug day for NM, to get them back to a sane level?
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> uh-oh, can't right click :/
<pitti> bought a Mac?
<cyphermox> hahaha
<cyphermox> no, using unity :)
<cyphermox> didrocks, I guess you may have gotten bug reports about those -- context menus, indicator menus, etc... menus in general painting behind the desktop or something?
<didrocks> cyphermox: yep, known compiz bug
<cyphermox> oh, it's in compiz
<didrocks> cyphermox: you can right click on the desktop to reset that
<didrocks> it should work
<cyphermox> I would open terminator and close it until it would work
<pitti> mvo: GOODNESS! cache.update(sources_list=...), that's exactly what I need in jockey *hug*
<cyphermox> pitti, do we really want to remove the netdev policy and keep a delta from debian?
<pitti> cyphermox: we have a delta anyway, don't we? but if it doesn't hurt, and the delta would be significant to maintain, then just "wontfix" it
<cyphermox> it's not significant and in fact I see there are a few bugs related to such group in the BTS
<cyphermox> pitti, it's not quite a delta, just an upload of wpasupplicant from debian's svn
<pitti> having group-based ACLs is quite old-fashioned, and it'd be better to get rid of it at some point (also in Debian), but certainly not up to the point where it causes a lot more work
<mvo> pitti: my pleasure!
<cyphermox> once they release 0.7 or 0.8 I'll just ask for it to be synced
<pitti> cyphermox: if it's the difference between "ubuntu1" and "sync", then by all means "sync"
<cyphermox> pitti, it's simple enough to remove, so I'll take care of it
<cyphermox> oh ok
<cyphermox> I can always make sure the wpasupplicant maintainers know about the changes too ;)
<pitti> cyphermox: sharing packaging with debian always trumps cosmetical stuff, of course
<asac> how is unity in natty?
<asac> can I upgrade? ;)
 * asac thinks its a bad idea
<cyphermox> pitti, that's why I was asking :) but I'll make sure we get it out of wpasupplicant in debian as well
<pitti> asac: if you don't mind launching apps from a terminal, it's fine
<asac> lol
<pitti> cyphermox: Debian has a different policy still, they still heavily rely on groups
<cyphermox> oh ok
<pitti> asac: we don't have the counterpart of the app menu yet
<asac> pitti: question is if i can start a terminal at all (in maverick alt+f2 didnt work)
<pitti> asac: alt+f2 doesn't, no; but ctrl+alt+t does :)
<asac> oh
<cyphermox> ohh
 * asac tries
<asac> haha
<pitti> asac: and you have "nautilus /usr/share/applications", which appears when you click on the ubuntu logo
<pitti> asac: poor man's app menu :)
<asac> thats "launcher big"
<asac> pitti: but its using nux and friends?
<asac> or am i just left with compiz + terminal atm?
<pitti> asac: you have the panel, launcher, and nautilus as usual
<pitti> asac: try current live CD
<pitti> asac: I have used it for quite a while
<asac> oh my launcher stuff would be stiill there ... that should be good enough
<pitti> it's annoying to not have a system tray any more, but otherwise I get along
<asac> hmm
<pitti> asac: yes, that works well; custom launchers in GNOME panel are auto-translated into the unity launcher
 * asac thinks for a moment and decides to wait till alpha-2
<seb128> pitti, why do you have still using the systray?
<pitti> seb128: mainly for evolution appointment notifier and gtimelog
<nessita> je
<pitti> and I seriously miss the system monitor (CPU/load)
<pitti> perhaps we should have libnotify integratino of dpkg-buildpackage, that pings you when a package build is done :)
<pitti> (that's my main use of the CPU-meter)
<seb128> that would be nice ;-)
<pitti> or make
<pitti> (for upstream builds)
<seb128> should be easy to do as well
<gnomefreak> didrocks: after reboot and several gdm restarts it isnt loading any panels
<pitti> seb128: but missing appointments really sucks
<didrocks> gnomefreak: can you paste your new .xsession-errors, please?
<pitti> seb128: in fact I switched back to panel this morning, when the plumber ringed me out of the shower :)
<gnomefreak> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/551481/
<seb128> pitti, isn't the calendar thing opening a dialog on screen?
<pitti> seb128: not by default; it just shows an icon in the tray
<pitti> and gives a notification, but that's easy to miss
<didrocks> gnomefreak: I still don't understandâ¦ you should have at least compiz trying to start and the log shows it's not the caseâ¦
<seb128> ok, I probably changed it at some point
<seb128> I get a dialog opening on screen for reminders
<pitti> alecu: that was quick :) (quotes page)
<didrocks> gnomefreak: I guess you have compiz-core and compiz-gnome installed, isn't it?
<alecu> :-)
<gnomefreak> didrocks: yes both are installed
<didrocks> gnomefreak: I really have no idea for now, sorryâ¦
<pitti> seb128: but yes, popup window sounds easier than appindicator integration
<didrocks> gnomefreak: you don't have any windowmanager running in your session, I guess?
<gnomefreak> didrocks: i doubt it since i now get no panels or anything else. just desktop background
<gnomefreak> didrocks: thanks for trying. i guess i will stick with classic desktop
<seb128> pitti, well I still have a gnome-panel running for the menus and the run a command there... ;-)
<didrocks> gnomefreak: well, you still can have a window manager. look at ps aux | grep comp and ps aux | grep met
<gnomefreak> didrocks: ps aux | grep met is the only one that has something runnning
<gnomefreak> metacity
<didrocks> gnomefreak: which version of gnome-session do you have?
<gnomefreak> didrocks: Installed: 2.32.1-0ubuntu8
<didrocks> weird, I see no case when metacity can be launched whereas compiz wasn't launched beforeâ¦ apart from setting a wrong wm in gnome-wm, which isn't the case as you set /bin/true for checking
<mterry> didrocks, is there going to be a new unity release this week?
<didrocks> mterry: no, some people on the team was sick this week, so there will be no release
<mterry> QQ
<seb128> no breaking before traveling in any case!
<didrocks> well, if it was yesterday, it could have been doable still, but today, no no and no :)
<seb128> didrocks, I know where to find you if you break anything before travelling
<seb128> so be careful :p
<gnomefreak> didrocks: when it was first introduced it worked fine, other than a few bugs. but im wondering can it be lack of memory causing this issue, i have 256mb of ram
<didrocks> seb128: depends, I can finally change my destination at the airport :-)
<seb128> didrocks, I will wait for you at the airport if required :p
<didrocks> seb128: Paris has a lot of other destinations :)
<mterry> seb128, is glib2.0 supposed to be in the desktop set?  I could see an argument for it not being, as it's pretty 'core', but I was surprised
<seb128> didrocks, ok, be nice then, I don't want to have to track you across the world :p
<didrocks> seb128: hehe :)
<seb128> mterry, that's a question for cjwatson I guess
<seb128> mterry, since glib is used by kde and plymouth and other things...
<seb128> I consider it desktopish but I can see a point to limit access to it
<mterry> seb128, asking in #u-devel
<bcurtiswx_> good morning room
<rodrigo_> hi bcurtiswx
<rodrigo_> brb
<bcurtiswx_> hi rodrigo_ :)
<rodrigo_> ugh, my apt is broken due to uninstallable python2.7-minimal
<rodrigo_> apt-get -f install doesn't even work
<rodrigo_> so what can I do?
<rodrigo_> hmm, and dpkg-reconfigure is gone?
<mvo> rodrigo_: could you pastebin the output please? was this a maverick->natty upgrade?
<rodrigo_> mvo, no, an upgrade already on natty
<rodrigo_> mvo, pasting
<pitti> didrocks: I booted teh live system again, still the same problem, for the record
<didrocks> pitti: did you try setting /bin/true as asked before?
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you asked me something? must have missed it
<didrocks> pitti: look at .xsession-errors
<rodrigo_> mvo, http://pastebin.com/vXH1RfZu
<pitti> didrocks: looking
<didrocks> pitti: do you have something like "/usr/lib/nux/â¦ helper killed"?
<didrocks> or something similar, do not remember the wording :)
<pitti> didrocks: yes, I do, from gnome-session
<pitti> didrocks: so that's known?
<mvo> rodrigo_: what does dpkg --configure -a say?
<mvo> rodrigo_: put a sudo in front of it :)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so it's a timeout, if you set  IsRunnableHelper=/bin/true in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session, this should fix it
<pitti> didrocks: ah, ok
<pitti> didrocks: I also seem to have a bottom panel now (empty), known as well?
<didrocks> pitti: well, I kept the default upstream timeout (500s) for the check, knowing that we would maybe get some issues. I'll expand it
<pitti> didrocks: 500s?
<didrocks> pitti: I guess it's just gnome-panel with crashing applets
<didrocks> ms*
<pitti> ah
<pitti> didrocks: presumably
<pitti> didrocks: but why is gnoem-panel running in the first place?
<didrocks> pitti: can you just try to change the value to confirm?
<pitti> didrocks: I thought that was the very thing that unity_support should prevent?
<didrocks> pitti: it's a fallback if unity can't run
<didrocks> and as the checker timeout, gnome-session runs the fallback
<rodrigo_> mvo, http://pastebin.com/da2rz1zq
<pitti> didrocks: I can't confirm it that way; if I merely restart the session withoout changing anything, it works, too
<pitti> didrocks: and I can't change the file before I get the session started up on the live usb stick
<didrocks> pitti: works like, no gnome-panel?
<pitti> didrocks: right
<mvo> rodrigo_: aha! I think its around line 58 - python2.7-minimal is borked
<pitti> didrocks: but it proves that it's timing related
<didrocks> yeah, so it's should be that
<pitti> didrocks: first startup is slower
<pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: I'll expand the timeout
<mvo> rodrigo_: hold on a sec
<rodrigo_> mvo, yes, it's the one preventing the others to setup
<didrocks> pitti: and make some caching as we planned for alpha3 then
<pitti> didrocks: can you do that in casper?
<pitti> didrocks: or does it need to be everywhere?
<pitti> i. e. is the timeout in gconf or anything, or hardcoded?
<didrocks> it's hardcoded
<didrocks> and I think some people can get it in very very slow machines
<mvo> rodrigo_: could you please try sudo dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archive/python-minimal_<tab>.deb ?
<mvo> rodrigo_: probably version 2.7.1-0ubuntu4, but just press tab to see what you have
<rodrigo_> mvo, hmm, it's gone from the cache
<rodrigo_> although I tried installing it by hand a few times, with dpkg -i
<mvo> rodrigo_: could you check (e.g. with apt-cache policy python-minimal or dpkg -l) what version you have?
<didrocks> pitti: just on the "why unity + gnome-panel and not just gnome-panel", as I knew there will be false positive on the checker, I let unity still starting on the fallback for some time
<rodrigo_> mvo, oh, sorry, it's archives, no archive
<rodrigo_> mvo, fails with the same error, NoneType....
<rodrigo_> mvo, I have 2.7.1-0ubuntu4 installed
<micahg> do you guys do branches for older releases as well, or just the devel release?
<didrocks> micahg: depends on who is doing the update, I tend to do ~ubuntu-desktop/packagename/maverick for instance
<mvo> rodrigo_: ok, thanks, what about python-central? is there a update for this in the cache that you could install?
<rodrigo_> mvo, let me see
<mvo> rodrigo_: its the "joy" of these helpers, python-support, python-central are IMO all way to complex with this whole byte-compile at runtime
<rodrigo_> mvo, no, I guess I'd get it by hand from the repo
<micahg> didrocks: ok, I just did an update for gnome-python-extras, cjwatson added it to the ubuntu-desktop main branch (I should've proposed a merge for you guys instead), I need to make an SRU for maverick, how would you like me to do it?
<micahg> err..rather he added it to the ubuntu-desktop branch :)
<didrocks> micahg: which branch?
<micahg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-python-extras/ubuntu
<mvo> rodrigo_: what does python -c "import sys; sys.path.insert(0, '/usr/share/python'); import pyversions; print pyversions.default_version()"
<mvo> rodrigo_: print for you?
<didrocks> micahg: ok, so you can either create a ~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-python-extras/maverick or just upload
<rodrigo_> mvo, python2.7
<micahg> didrocks: ok, I don't have permissions to create an ~ubuntu-desktop branch yet, if you want to create it, I'll be happy to propose a merge for it
<rodrigo_> hmm, there isn't a --force option for dpkg to force installation
<didrocks> micahg: I'm branching the maverick version and pushing there
<mvo> rodrigo_: no, maintainer scripts can not be forced (by design)
<micahg> didrocks: great, thanks
<mvo> rodrigo_: could you pleae (just for the kick) add: "self.default_runtime = get_default_runtime()" before line 1095? and a print afterwarts to see what the result is?
<rodrigo_> mvo, which file?
<didrocks> micahg: done!
<micahg> didrocks: thanks, I should have it in a few minutes
<mvo> rodrigo_: sorry, /usr/bin/pycentral
<didrocks> you're welcome :)
<pitti> didrocks, kenvandine: is it known that the global menu bar disappears while a window is focussed (i. e. the mouse is inside it)?
<pitti> or sohuld I report it as a bug?
<kenvandine> pitti, i am pretty sure there is a bug about that... but can't say for sure
<kenvandine> didrocks, ^^
<didrocks> pitti: in unity?
<pitti> didrocks: yes
<pitti> kenvandine: is that indicator-appmenu?
<didrocks> pitti: like, when the mouse is not in the panel, there is no menu?
<pitti> didrocks: correct
<didrocks> pitti: it's on purpose
<pitti> ??
<kenvandine> didrocks, that isn't a bug?
<pitti> another design breakage?
 * kenvandine hates that
<didrocks> yeah, it's the first design that was presented
<didrocks> kenvandine: no, it's not
<kenvandine> ugh....
<pitti> why are half of the unity bugs that I run into declared "features"?
<didrocks> pitti: the only bug that is logged is that you don't see the menu on pressing alt
<pitti> didrocks: how can that not be a bug?
<pitti> didrocks: right, that too
<pitti> didrocks: but it's confusing to not see the menu to even see what you want to do
<didrocks> pitti: it's the design from the start, looking for the link, one sec
<pitti> *sigh*
<pitti> (sorry, I know it's not your fault)
<didrocks> pitti: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/359
<didrocks> "By default, weâd display the contents of the title bar. When you mouse up to the panel, or when you press the Alt key, the contents would switch to the menu. That way, youâre looking at the document title most of the time, unless you move towards it to click on the menu.
<didrocks> "
<Shred00> if i have lp:ubuntu/maverick/evolution checked out, how can i change that tree to lp:ubuntu/maverick-proposed/evolution?
<didrocks> kenvandine: ^
<pitti> Shred00: bzr pull --remember lp:ubuntu/maverick-proposed/evolution
<kenvandine> didrocks, thx...
<pitti> didrocks: thanks for the pointer
<didrocks> you're welcome :)
<pitti> didrocks: I pretty much gave up on using menus with non-maximized windows anyway (as this is broken with focus-follows-mouse), but now I don't even see what I'm missing :)
<Shred00> pitti: thanx much!
<didrocks> pitti: ahah :) TBH, even when my menu are broken, I notice that I don't use them (some accelerators, which are still working), but really few of them
<didrocks> pitti: pitti for the focus-follows-mouse issue, the design team logged it as a task to consider
<pitti> didrocks: ah, that's good to hear; even if we'd just disable global menu on FFM, that'd be enough
<micahg> didrocks: would you like a release tag in the merge or UNRELEASED?
<didrocks> micahg: it will be once we set the version to maverick-proposed
<didrocks> micahg: I won't be able to test it though, I don't have a maverick box right now
<didrocks> so, if someone else wants to review/testâ¦
<micahg> right, but how should I propose the merge, with maverick-proposed or UNRELEASED?
<rodrigo_> bbiab
<didrocks> micahg: UNRELEASED
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, were you able to create a VM with natty + gnome3 yet.  I just wanted to know if you got unity working (you mentioned it was supposed to) i haven't been able to
<jcastro> didrocks: I just noticed your commit message when you switched to banshee. <3
<didrocks> jcastro: hehe :-)
 * didrocks hugs jcastro
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, unity is working fine in the vm
<kenvandine> i got one with the gnome3 ppa added now
<kenvandine> but haven't installed any build stuff yet
<micahg> didrocks: done and test case added to bug, thanks
<didrocks> micahg: yw :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, the trick with virtualbox and unity... enable 3d in the settings and install the guest extensions
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, OK.  I tried VBx4 and it does some weird things making it so I couldn't install guest additions
<kenvandine> oh?
<kenvandine> worked fine here
<kenvandine> just mount the iso in the VM
<kenvandine> and run the installed
<kenvandine> installer
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, I'll try it when i get home..
<kenvandine> cool
<bcurtiswx_> i installed 10.10 back on my laptop.. going to rely on VM's for natty instead.  Needed my laptop more for work.  Gotta get more into coding models, needed the stability
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<kenvandine> although natty has been stable for me... except when messing with crack from tedg
<kenvandine> :-D
<Shred00> ok.  used bzr pull to change to lp:ubuntu/maverick-proposed/evolution and it told me i needed to use missing and merge.  missing seems informational, fair enough, but what should i do with merge to resolve the issues?
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, is tedg a seller?? :P
<kenvandine> apparently :)
<tedg> bcurtiswx_, more of a pusher actually ;)
<bcurtiswx_> tedg, lol :)
<glatzor> hello mvo, how can I assign a value list to apt_pkg.config? apt_pkg.config["dpkg::options::"] = "--force-not-root --root /tmp/bla/" doesn't seem to work
<pitti> TTFN; need to do packing and getting up at 5 tomorrow
<pitti> see you in Dallas!
<kenvandine> safe travels pitti
<seb128> should do that as well
<seb128> pitti, see you tomorrow!
<seb128> pitti, I land at 15:40 so see you in the evening at the hotel maybe
<pitti> seb128: I land at 1415
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I will text you when I'm at the hotel
<pitti> seb128: yes, for dinner and beer at the latest
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks, you too! not so far from you, I guess
<seb128> see you
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> 3 short hours :)
<didrocks> see you in Dallas pitti, have a safe travel
<didrocks> same for you seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, see you there
<didrocks> ok, high time to pack, see you on Sunday
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-08
<ari-tczew> anyone around?
<AbsintheSyringe> hey, I'm planning to repackage unity for Debian, however did someone already start doing this or what's the status?
<ari-tczew> AbsintheSyringe: I suggest to ask on Monday when UDT is working
<ari-tczew> now is weekend
<AbsintheSyringe> ari-tczew, will :)
<AbsintheSyringe> will do*
<ari-tczew> glad
<Bunbury> hello all
<Bunbury> anyone with experience on installing JRockit on Ubuntu?
<Bunbury> anyone with even remotely helpful info plz respond
<ebroder> Bunbury: it's early morning in europe, and late evening in the us, and a weekend everywhere. please be patient. if someone knows, they will respond
<Bunbury> k
<Bunbury> Im developing in Java with JBoss
<Bunbury> trying to excape the dreaded PermGen
<Bunbury> JRockit seems to be the only option on Ubuntu as IBM doesnt have it officially supported
<JackyAlcine> :D
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-01-09
<pehden> any one know how to set up openvpn y/n
<pehden> any one know how to set up openvpn y/n
<ebroder> !patience | pehden
<ubot2> pehden: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<pehden> ts a yes or no question
<micahg> pehden: actually, #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server would probably be better
<pehden> in the server one
<pehden> no one talking
<ebroder> pehden: it's the middle of the night in europe and dinner time in the us, plus it's the weekend
<pehden> didnt think about that
<pehden> Amaranth YO!
<pehden> Amaranth: Hows the new job
<pehden> Amaranth_: Hows the new job
<pehden> Amaranth_: You know me from your old one lol Im on fb
<Amaranth_> pehden: err, good :)
<Amaranth_> pehden: But this isn't a support channel :)
<pehden> Amaranth_: lol
<pehden> Amaranth: lol
<pehden> Amaranth: I only have a simple question for any one with the knowlegde of the subject
<Amaranth> pehden: Most of the people who would be in here only work on weekdays and are in europe so this is a bad place to ask right now anyway
 * Amaranth knows nothing about openvpn
<pehden> well it sort of a network question too i guess
<ebroder> it's not really a desktop question, though
<pehden> could remote (Remote IP)   and  ifconfig (Transport network)  be the same addresses?
<pehden> im looking at http://openvpn.net/index.php/open-source/documentation/howto.html#config
<pehden> and on the part that shows normal server startup
<pehden> it only shows the ifconfig
<pehden> idk
<pehden> unfortunatly i rather use webmin
<micahg> pehden: this is still off topic
<pehden> i know but the server room was dead, and was like maybe some one would know,
<JackyAlcine> I'll be right back.
<JackyAlcine> Hey everyone
 * pehden is away: I'm busy
<AbsintheSyringe> I want to have Unity repackaged for Debian, however can anyone let me know what's Unity Team email address?
<milanbv> AbsintheSyringe: http://unity.ubuntu.com/contact-us/
<AbsintheSyringe> milanbv, tnx, I got it ;)
<JackyAlcine> Morning, one and all :)
 * JackyAlcine Programming; working on libopenmary-c++, and tending to the Launchpad
<bigon> could someone have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/700370 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 700370 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Please rename gir1.2-mutter-2.31 to gir1.2-mutter-2.91 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
<ari-tczew> bigon: suggest subscribe ubuntu-desktop as well
<bigon> ari-tczew: done
<chrisccoulson> subscribing ubuntu-desktop doesn't actually notify anybody
<chrisccoulson> not sure if you got that when i said it before, i got disconnected ;)
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: The ubuntu-desktop team gets all the bugs anyway, no?
<Amaranth> Also I thought we were dropping mutter from the natty repos because it needs GNOME 3 stuff
<bigon> well mutter build correctly on natty
<bigon> any reasons why clutter-1.0 has not been updated to 1.5.8?
<bigon> (or even 1.5.10?)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-02
<seb128> good morning and happy new year ;-)
<rodrigo_> hey seb128, happy new year
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, happy new year to you too! how are you?
<rodrigo_> seb128, still a bit tired after new year's party :)
<rodrigo_> you?
<seb128> tired a bit as well, and I got a cold on thursday which is not totally over
<seb128> but otherwise good ;-)
<rodrigo_> good :)
<BigWhale> Morning? what's that? :>
<dpm> hey seb128 and everyone, happy new year too!
<seb128> hey dpm, happy new year!
<BigWhale> I hated 2012 even before it started! Bcs some silly Mayan ran out of stone when making a calendar, everyone is talking about apocalypse ... *sigh* :>
<BigWhale> Nevertheless, I hope you all have a nice year.
<BigWhale> At least until winter solstice ...
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, happy new year!
<chrisccoulson> you're back to work already?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, happy new year!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, had nice holidays?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it was relaxing thanks. and you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how "already"? 2 full weeks off is not enough? ;-)
<seb128> I've been good at not touching the computer, really great once a year ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, we don't do the "if holiday day is during w.e so next working day is an holiday"
<chrisccoulson> seb128, heh. we have a public holiday today because new years day fell on sunday :)
<chrisccoulson> ah
<chrisccoulson> that sucks ;)
<seb128> indeed! ;-)
<seb128> that's why 2011 sucked
<seb128> like christmas and new year on sunday
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a pain. we get additional holidays for both of those :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, it seems that christmas and nyd fall on weekdays this year ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, 2 years in a row is enough :p (those were on saturday in 2010 iirc)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well it shifts from 1 day every year usually
<seb128> 2 this year because we have 29 days in february
<seb128> (dunno how that's called in english)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we call that a "leap year"
<seb128> noted ;-)
<seb128> 1285 emails on precise changes while I was away
<seb128> some people did work it seems :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know if there is a way to change the default zoom level in tb?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i don't think there's a supported way to do that. do you want it larger by default?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> changing the font in the preferences works on some emails
<seb128> could be html emails
<seb128> it doesn't impact on the i.e -hanges emails
<seb128> -changes
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if you could achieve that by changing this preference to something larger than 100: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Zoom.minPercent
<seb128> I should maybe change the desktop monospace font size
<chrisccoulson> yeah, changing the font size would probably be better
<chrisccoulson> although, that doesn't seem to work here
<chrisccoulson> i think jono already reported a bug about font issues
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, if you want to increase the font size, it seems that you need to change the monospace size for both "Western" and "Other languages"
<chrisccoulson> not sure why that is, but it seems to work here
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I just noticed that tb has a monospace font size under "advanced"
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that's the one
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I just set the minimal font size in that dialog
<seb128> that did the trick
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats, happy new year!
<huats> happy new year seb128 !
<ricotz> happy new year everyone!
<seb128> ricotz, hey,happy new year!
<Sweetshark> Happy new year, all!
<stgraber> Sweetshark: happy new year!
<Sweetshark> To the french guys: What is it about Berlin that you all go there for New Years? It felt like there where more frenchspeaking gals/guys around than german/slavic/english-speaking ones ;)
<geser> Sweetshark: was it you with the big tux near the front of the stage? :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Sebastien, and Happy New Year!
<GunnarHj> Time to upload a simple patch (bug 909256) to oneiric-proposed? Some users are unable to use gnome-language-selector due to a stupid Python issue.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 909256 in language-selector "gnome-language-selector crashed with ValueError in _build_localename(): too many values to unpack" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/909256
<seb128> hey GunnarHj, happy new year to you as well!
<GunnarHj> seb128: Tnx
<seb128> GunnarHj, ok, I will have a look in a bit
<seb128> thanks for the work on it ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Great, you are welcome.
<seb128> mvo, hey, could you look at bug #910813?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 910813 in computer-janitor "Lucid to Precise failed to calculate the upgrade due to computer-janitor" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/910813
<seb128> jibel, why do we get upgrade bugs assigned to our team btw? ;-)
<jibel> seb128, computer-janitor is not a desktop package ?
<seb128> jibel, well the issue is not with computer-janitor, we deprecated and stopped using it, it's an update calculation issue it seems?
<jibel> seb128, ok, for some reason it is no removed on upgrade to precise while it was few days ago and is now blocking the upgrade.
<seb128> "Package python-apt has broken Breaks on computer-janitor"
<jibel> seb128, is there a dedicated team for bugs in software-center of desktop is ok ?
<jibel> s/of/or
<seb128> jibel, good question, I would like to know as well
<seb128> tremulox and mvo are in a new team
<seb128> we have nobody in desktop which knows about s-c code or ever worked on it I think
<seb128> so it doesn't seem a good fit for those bugs
<seb128> but I'm not sure if there is a team better suited...
<mvo> jibel: which bug in particular?
<seb128> mvo, bug #907568
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 907568 in software-center "software-center crashed with SIGSEGV in PyGILState_Ensure()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907568
<seb128> bug #849745
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 849745 in software-center "software-center crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849745
<jibel> mvo, all kind of bugs: bug 849745 bug 905605 bug 904614
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 905605 in software-center "software-center crashed with AttributeError in _decode_value(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'decode'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905605
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 904614 in software-center "can't uninstall software with software-center" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904614
<mvo> thanks, I put that on my list
<seb128> mvo, not an answer ;-)
<seb128> mvo, is there a team which would be best suited than canonical-desktop-team for those bugs?
<seb128> mvo, it seems we should fix the workflow and find somebody, some team responsible for escalated s-c issues
<seb128> I'm fine using the desktop team but in practice I doubt we will be very useful for it since we don't have anyone left on team working on s-c
<jibel> mvo, the current workflow is triager -> desktop-team -> tremolux
<jibel> mvo, it would be better to have a dedicated s-c team to assign reports directly
<seb128> jibel, tremulox is not in the desktop team anymore since UDS btw ;-)
<mvo> seb128: there are the ~software-center-developers - how about that?
<seb128> jibel, ^
<seb128> mvo, well, your call really ;-)
<seb128> mvo, is anyone paying attention to the bugs assigned to this team? ;-) or is that another launchpad spambox? :p
<seb128> mvo, the idea is just that somebody get notified of escalated issues and decide if that's something that should be worked or not
<seb128> mvo, i.e no obligation to fix everything coming, just to have a look and check if that's something to better address if you can
<jibel> mvo, I'm fine with any team as long as it is not a single individual unlike s-c-dev ;-)
<mvo> seb128: well, currently we don't look at this group, but we can change that :)
<mvo> seb128, jibel: I like the idea, I will raise it on our mailinglist
<mvo> so that the others are aware of it
<jibel> mvo, thanks, let us know when the decision is made and the team is ready for bug assignment.
<mvo> jibel: I see already 4 bugs assigned to them :)
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, FFS, http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11581384&postcount=2010
<chrisccoulson> we suck
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what happpened there?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, christmas
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you have been good at not working during the holidays then? I support that ;-)
<seb128> oh, pitti got some internet it seems :p
<chrisccoulson> did he not have internets?
<BigWhale> How long will Ubuntu stay with Compiz?
<chrisccoulson> BigWhale, we'll switch back to mutter on April 1st ;)
<BigWhale> don't make fun out of me! ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<BigWhale> bcs I am caught in a
<BigWhale> madness
<seb128> compiz is only code
<seb128> it can be changed or fixed
<seb128> so staying with it or not is not really revelant ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, he travelled back from Dresden today apparently, he sent an email this morning saying he was off today swapping it with friday
<BigWhale> well
<BigWhale> I am getting really crappy performance screencapturing with gstreamer
<BigWhale> a part of it is libvpx and the other part is ximagesrc plugin that captures the screen
<BigWhale> so I am thinking about writing a plugin for gstreamer that would capture the screen directly from compiz
<BigWhale> something similar to what was done in gnome shell for clutter
<seb128> compiz doesn't have anything like that already?
<BigWhale> it has a screenshot plugin
<BigWhale> but it outputs single screens :>
<BigWhale> that would be my starting point
<seb128> well I guess compiz will stay long enough for that to be useful
<seb128> would it only be the coming lts which will be supported 5 years
<BigWhale> you have a point there ... silly me ...
<seb128> then after the lts for the next lts cycle who knows... the world will change, wayland might replace xorg, wms might need lot of changes
<seb128> nothing planned that I know about though, I'm just ready to bet that we will not stay put tomorrow, either if compiz is adapted, something else used, something new written... who knows ;-)
<BigWhale> I'll think about it.
<dan6796> hey
<TheMuso> Happy new year folks, and its good to be back.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm not even back to work yet, and already firing up my hardy VM :/
<chrisccoulson> happy new year TheMuso :)
<jasoncwarner_> hey everyone...happy new year!
 * TheMuso wathces as mail continues to download...
<TheMuso> wathes
<TheMuso> watches
<TheMuso> gah
<chrisccoulson> happy new year jasoncwarner_!
 * TheMuso is not looking forward to the weather in Budapest... Summer is now starting to show its true colours here in Sydney, and I don't want to have to go back to the cold at all. :)
<jasoncwarner_> hey chrisccoulson happy new year... :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm looking forward to the weather in budapest. anything is better than the grey, dull, dreary, miserable weather we've had here for weeks ;)
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: We've had a lot of rain this summer so far, to the point where most of us are sick of it. So... precipitation of any kind is not something I want to have to deal with atm... Unelss of course, it is going for a swim in a pool/at the beach.
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, yeah, i wouldn't like any rain. but i'm perfectly ok with cold, crisp weather and a good frost :)
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, did you have a good holiday?
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Happy new year!  And congratulations; I don't think I've said that yet :)
<chrisccoulson> oh, thanks :)
<BigWhale> Are there any compiz hackers working for Canonical/Ubuntu?
<RAOF> Yup.
<BigWhale> Oh? Where, where? I have questions! :)
<RAOF> You'd be looking for smspillaz :)
<BigWhale> Awesome!
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-03
 * TheMuso suspends today's email processing for a break...
<RAOF> Heh.  You know what makes gnome-shell substantially less usable?  Having the mouse cursor freuqently teleport to (0,0) and activate the overlay :)
<TheMuso> Oh lovely.
<RAOF> It's highly likely to be related to the 1.11/1.12 frankenserver this laptop's running.  Chase needs to hunt down that bug before we migrate everything out of the PPA into Precise. :)
<TheMuso> heh
<didrocks> good morning and happy new year!
<RAOF> Hey, ho, didrocks!
<didrocks> hey RAOF! How are you?
<RAOF> Pretty good.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> happy new year everyone!
<rickspencer3> good morning pitti
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, how are you? had some nice holidays?
<didrocks> good morning, pitti, rickspencer3! Happy new year!
<pitti> didrocks: bonjour! ca va?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien :) good holidays there, and you?
<pitti> didrocks: same here, we spent all the time in Dresden and returned yesterday
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks
<pitti> lots of time to meet friends and family, go for some hiking, etc., much easier than the rather cramped and short weekend trips
<rickspencer3> bon fÃªte et bon santÃ© didrocks
<pitti> I even brought back a cold :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, I've had a cold for the last week as well :/
<didrocks> bonne annÃ©e Ã  toi aussi rickspencer3 :)
<didrocks> pitti: argh, cold :/
<pitti> yeah, half of the people we met had one, so eventually I just had to follow up :(
<pitti> but it'll be gone by Budapest
<rickspencer3> pitti, my thoughts exactly, I will be inoculated by Budapest next week ;)
<didrocks> lots of video games for me and catching up by years of no real video game time there :) (in addition to some time with my family), the only bad thing is that Julie didn't get any holidays
<pitti> didrocks: uh, none at all, not even for xmas?
<didrocks> pitti: no, as it was on sunday
<RAOF> We do that right in Australia.
<pitti> hey RAOF, happy new year!
<RAOF> If a public holiday falls on a weekend, we damn well take the next weekday off!
<didrocks> pitti: she just didn't work on the friday afternoon (but as her hours are counted, this is not really a gift) as there was nothing to be done
<RAOF> NO ONE SHALL DEPRIVE US OF OUR RIGHTFUL HOLIDAYS!
<didrocks> RAOF: heh, not in France :)
<didrocks> so we don't have the same number of bank holidays every years :)
<RAOF> pitti: Happy new year!
<pitti> didrocks: btw, you know that compiz-plugins-main is stuck in oneiric-proposed because of the missing precise uploads, right?
<pitti> didrocks: I guess that'll solve itself by the impending releases
<RAOF> Oh!  A shiny new unity that'll work without multitouch? :)
<didrocks> pitti: indeed, it will be in the new release. As you accepted the previous compiz/nux upload for this (as we wait tests for the incoming release first), I thought this would be on the same page
<tjaalton> RAOF: what where?
<tjaalton> oh
<RAOF> tjaalton: :)
<tjaalton> yeah been using gnome-shell for the past few weeks
<RAOF> tjaalton: Have you noticed synaptics throwing the cursor up to (0,0) with annoying frequency, or is that just my hardware?
<RAOF> If so: doesn't it drive you *mad*?
<tjaalton> RAOF: well, synaptics drives me mad, so I've disabled the hw :)
<tjaalton> though I could test the behaviour..
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  You said that before :)
<tjaalton> hm, how does one reboot from gnome-shell?
<RAOF> This laptop doesn't have a nubbin, and the *other* laptop has a bad harddrive that causes a wonderful conflux of firefox/ecryptfs/btrfs/syslog interaction.
<RAOF> tjaalton: I *think* you need to hold down alt?
<RAOF> While opening up the menu?
<tjaalton> ha, yeah that did it
<BigWhale> Good morning everyone.
<tjaalton> how discoverable..
<RAOF> Discoverabilityâ¢
<RAOF> No one ever needs to do something so *crass* as to reboot their system.
<BigWhale> RAOF, I agree! It just messes up with your uptime records! :>
<tjaalton> RAOF: confirmed :)
<RAOF> tjaalton: Pretty fun, isn't it? :)
<tjaalton> hilarious
<RAOF> It interacts particularly well with (0,0) being the Activities hot corner!
<tjaalton> heh, yeah
<tjaalton> oh well, purged the driver for now
 * bryceh waves
<chrisccoulson> good morning desktoppers!
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning and happy new year!
<pitti> bryceh: hello, and happy new year!
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, happy new year to you too :)
<chrisccoulson> did you have a good break?
<bryceh> heya pitti
<pitti> yes I did, no computer time and lots of family and friends :)
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson, happy new year! :)
<chrisccoulson> happy new year didrocks :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, i managed to avoid my computer for a few days as well
<chrisccoulson> and it shows! i've got all of this to fix today https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/FirefoxUpgradeChecklist/10.0 ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: heh, I feel the same; lots of mail/bug/etc. backlog :(
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, the mail backlog is the worst part ;)
<chrisccoulson> https://twitter.com/#!/chrisccoulson/status/153959177998446592 :-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yay!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: good luck with that; I have tried and succeeded at it for a fair while, but these days it's more like inbox 5 for me
<pitti> there's always some mails which take ages or blocked
<bryceh> I've been doing inbox zero for some months now
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'm currently at around inbox 25000 ;)
<pitti> urgh
<seb128> hey
<bryceh> chrisccoulson, sounds like a job for procmail
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<bryceh> heya seb128 happy new years
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, wb officially today ;-)
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> hey bryceh, happy new year to you as well!
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<didrocks> bonne annÃ©e seb128 :)
<seb128> oh a didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, bonne annÃ©e !
<seb128> didrocks, I was a bit concerned about you being not there yesterday, I'm glad you are back ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128, happy new year! *hug*
<seb128> didrocks, I was wondering if you decided holidays were too nice and that you wouldn't go back to work :p
<bryceh> pitti, yeah I force myself to bring it to zero at least once a week, even if that means moving some ongoing items into the todo list
<didrocks> seb128: no, I  had a 16 days of holidays reminaining, hence the swap between friday 9th december to yesterday
<seb128> pitti, happy new year to you as well! *hug*
<pitti> bryceh: right, maintaining a proper TODO list is a nice solution for this
<seb128> didrocks, oh ok, I was not sure if you said you put all your days before the holidays and you were not marked on holidays or swap in canonicaladmin
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I just talk to jason about swapping friday and yesterday as it was not realistic that I can go on holidays the 9th december with all the remaining tasks I had before holidays
<didrocks> but I managed them and finished on friday at 5:30pm despite a lot of surprises on that day :p
<rickspencer3> pitti, deactivating me from the canonical-desktop team won't stop me from assigning bugs ;)
<baptistemm> hey there
<baptistemm> happy new year everyone
<pitti> baptistemm: bonjour, happy new year!
<baptistemm> salut Pitty
<seb128> rickspencer3, bonne annÃ©e !
<seb128> baptistemm, happy new year ;-)
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<baptistemm> bonne annee
<rickspencer3> seb128,  bonne annÃ©e et bon santÃ©
<bryceh> hi rickspencer3 happy new years
<rickspencer3> hiya bryceh
<seb128> rickspencer3, oh, merci, Ã  toi aussi !
<rickspencer3> good evening?
<rickspencer3> bryceh, is it not 1:36am for you?
<bryceh> rickspencer3, yep
<rickspencer3> night owl
<bryceh> indeed; but helps when its time for the 2am feedings, and consoling sick kids
<lifeless> bryceh: young baby?
<baptistemm> congrats chrisccoulson for the new baby coming
<bryceh> lifeless, 4mo
<lifeless> bryceh: ~same as cynthia; I'm told it gets better ;)
<bryceh> ah wait, 5 months
<bryceh> lifeless, yep, she's our second so we've been through it all
<pitti> seb128: btw, I created bug 911125 from doko's recent main rebuild test
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911125 in yelp "FTBFS due to removed g_thread_init" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911125
<chrisccoulson> baptistemm, thanks :)
<pitti> seb128: some fallout from gnome 3.2 vs. new glib (but should be easy to fix)
<seb128> pitti, right, the easy way is to no set G_DISABLE_DEPRECATED
<bryceh> lifeless, hope you had some fun times over the holiday with your new daughter? she starting to become interactive?
<pitti> seb128: but g_thread_init() disappeared entirely
<seb128> pitti, no it didn't
<pitti> seb128: it's been deprecated since 2.24
<pitti> uh?
<seb128> it would be an abi break
<pitti> ah, ok
<lifeless> bryceh: beginning yes; she burbles a lot, tracks us very very well, rolls from front to back in a millisecond
<seb128> pitti, see /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/deprecated/gthread.h
<seb128> pitti, they just moved it in the deprecated dir
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks; I updated the description accordingly
<seb128> pitti, which is only included when you don't turn deprecate off
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<bryceh> lifeless, nice, my daughter ZoÃ« has just started rolling over this past week (mostly back to front), but she can scoot herself across the room on her back no prob
<lifeless> bryceh: heh, cynthia hasn't worked out scooting along yet ;)
<lifeless> bryceh: she just looks around pitifully and bawls :(
<lifeless> bryceh: gnight
<bryceh> lifeless, nite
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, urg, I really dislike the one bug to track all the ftbfs issues style, can't we open different bugs and tag them or give a list to the team next time?
<pitti> seb128: ok, will do next time; doko asked for tracking this, and as it's the same problem in multiple packages tasks seemed appropriate
<seb128> pitti, the way you did it means that people subscribed to any of the listed component will get emails for every change to any of components
<seb128> like if I care about dbus I will get 250 spams for things I don't care about
<seb128> pitti, yeah, the feature makes sense until you get spammed for 2 months on a bug where you fixed your part and get emails from discussions still going for universe stuff ;-)
<seb128> (been there before)
<pitti> ok, noted
<seb128> thanks
<soren> seb128: You know you can mute bug mail from a single bug, right?
<pitti> FTR, /me merges gnome-keyring and fixes FTBFS along
<seb128> soren, right, but I can't mute comments that don't concern the components I care about
<soren> seb128: Right, no, but once you've fixed you part, you can just mute the bug.
<seb128> soren, because comments are not targetted to a particular of the 15 listed components
<seb128> soren, well I would like to know if there is an issue with my fix :p
<soren> seb128: Ah, good point.
<seb128> that launchpad feature is really to track one bug that need change on different sources
<seb128> not to track similar bugs across the archive ;-)
<seb128> we have tags for that
<seb128> or we would open a "ftbfs in precise" bug and liste 500 sources in there ;-)
 * didrocks opens
<didrocks> :-)
<pitti> (not the same root cause, though)
<pitti> but yes, I see what you mean
<pitti> so, tags in the future
<seb128> pitti, thanks, sorry for being picky but I got bitten by such bugs in the past ;-) (at a time where launchpad didn't have bug muting though, I will just use that for this one)
<seb128> pitti, btw you can update yelp to 3.3 if you want
<seb128> it's on the list of standalone applications that we said we would update to 3.4
<seb128> that should fix the ftbfs as well I guess
<pitti> ah, sounds good
<pitti> yes, for the gnome stuff I figure all of the fixes are already in upstream git
<seb128> mostly yes
<seb128> I was pondering dropping part of gnome-utils and doing updates as well
<seb128> they made standalone vcs and tarballs for each components in the new cycle
<pitti> I followed that discussion on desktop-devel, indeed
<pitti> it seems relatively harmless
<pitti> (either way)
<seb128> we can package things we care about
<seb128> I started on gnome-screenshot before the holidays
<pitti> but I thought we should do it in Debian and sync, instead of doing the work twice and then have to merge
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I should commit my work to the pkg-gnome svn
<seb128> but I'm not sure if Debian will get 3.4 for wheezy
<pitti> should be fine in experimental?
<seb128> I guess so
<seb128> pitti, do you have any clue about the amd64 retracer issues? it was down during the holidays, I untag the bug it was having issue with yesterday but it has been hitting a similar one again
<seb128>   File "apport/bin/crash-digger", line 100, in retrace_next
<seb128>     raise SystemError('retracing #%i failed' % id)
<seb128> SystemError: retracing #909509 failed
<pitti> seb128: dup db confusion again; it's high on my list
<seb128> "but database already has that signature for ID 905105
<seb128> "
<pitti> I'll fix/workaround it today
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> should I untag that bug and remove the lock meanwhile?
<seb128> hum in fact no hurry, ignore that
<pitti> if you remember to re-tag it, sure
<seb128> we can wait for you to look at it
<seb128> ok, similar to yesterday, both evince bugs
<seb128> I untag and delete the lock, will retag those 2 later
<pitti> I bet it's again due to some internal __strlen_sse_whatever stuff
<pitti> I need to unwind those
<seb128> yeah, the one I untag yesterday had that
<pitti> they are useless and skew duplication detection
<pitti> seb128: or just mark them as dupes
<pitti> that'll help, too
<seb128> "SIGSEGV in __strchr_sse2()"
<seb128> pitti, so I clean them by hand?
<pitti> right, it should use the "real" function for this, not the internal one
<pitti> seb128: I'd find the existing master bug (the one in the exception message, bug 905105) and dupe
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<pitti> but the logic needs to be fixed as well, of course, I can do that
<pitti> I added that assertion to ensure that we don't screw up the dup db
<pitti> seb128: hm, g_module_* stuff isn't deprecated, is it?
<pitti> seb128: gnome-keyring fails to build due to undefined reference to `g_module_open' and others
<pitti> it does link to -lglib-2.0, and I added #include <gmodule.h>
<pitti> does that ring a bell?
<seb128> pitti, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-keyring/commit/?id=30915a6fc4b95bbe6a5da224f731480e78bbaf83
<seb128> ?
<pitti> seb128: no, that's not it; but I'll dig it out
<pitti> gck/ entirely disappeared from trunk
<seb128> pitti, doesn't right a bell sorry
<seb128> oh
<pitti> bde64e94 fixes the g_thread deprecations
<seb128> pitti, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gcr/log/
<pitti> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gcr/commit/?id=15db61820f7cf2cd0a2631115c881367c7afc3c4 ?
<pitti> hm, no
<seb128> could be
<pitti> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gcr/commit/?id=290b322a2bbaa81c3f00f9241228ed38672fb03f could work, trying
<pitti> oh, that's gcr
<seb128> pitti, gcr has the gcr and gck libs it seems
<seb128> well anyway I will let you sort it, I've no clue about this one
<pitti> ack, thanks
<ricotz> gmodules arent pulled in automatically anymore you need to explicitly link to it
<ricotz> hi
<pitti> hey ricotz, gesundes Neues!
<ricotz> pitti, danke, fÃ¼r dich auch!
<pitti> oh, -lgmodule-2.0
<ricotz> yes
<ricotz> glib.pc doesnt include it anymore
<pitti> so I need to add gmodule-2.0.pc to configure.ac
<pitti> upstream gcr git head builds, so no need to forward it upstream
<ricotz> pitti, yes
<seb128> rickspencer3, smuxi?! ;-)
<rickspencer3> I said it was low
<ricotz> this will solve the gmodule references not sure about possible gthread issues
<rickspencer3> j'aime bien smuxi
<chrisccoulson> i'm really happy to be using a 24" monitor now :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> I've one for over a year and it's great indeed ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i had a 22" before. but we had a 24" on the desktop, so i did a swap over christmas
<chrisccoulson> hopefully jo doesn't notice her monitor shrank by 2"
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you will be in trouble ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> you can always say that ruby switched them, but I guess that's not going to work :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> hi mvo, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> do you fancy uploading the latest aptdaemon from trunk?
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<chrisccoulson> i need this so that software-center works again: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/main/revision/755 ;)
<didrocks> am I the only one without any css for launchpad?
<pitti> WFM
<didrocks> hum, weirdâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, seems to work there as well
<seb128> (using firefox)
<nessita> hello everyone! is there any specific IRC channel I can ask questions regarding unity 2d?
<seb128> hey nessita, happy new year!
<didrocks> seb128: ok, maybe there is a proxy issue with my ISP, no big deal though
<seb128> nessita, try #ayatana I guess
<didrocks> thanks for confirming :)
<nessita> hello seb128! thanks. You too :-)
<didrocks> hey nessita, happy new year!
<nessita> didrocks: hello! thanks! :-)
<nessita> didrocks: remember the thing I mentioned at UDS regarding the F10 key in the gnome-terminal under unity?
<didrocks> nessita: yes, the option not working, right?
<nessita> didrocks: right, every time I press F10 the menu of the window will open instead of forward the event to the program running in the terminal
<didrocks> nessita: you unchecked the "activate shortcuts to access the menu", isn't it?
<didrocks> in file -> shortcuts
<pitti> nessita: happy new year!
<nessita> didrocks: yes, under Edit -> Keyboard Shortcuts I unchecked "Enable the menu shortcut key (F10 by default)"
<nessita> pitti: hi there!!! thanks, you too :-)
<didrocks> nessita: yeah so the event is still forwarded to the app IIRC, seems a dbusmenu issue
<didrocks> nessita: I think you should ping tedg maybe
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, it could be your browser ;)
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<nessita> didrocks: thanks!
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no chance, is my firefox-nvidia-launchpad issue fixed yet? :p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, it's kinda fixed with no css thanks to my ISP :)
<chrisccoulson> i can haz some nvidia hardware to test?
<didrocks> baked or rebaked? :)
<chrisccoulson> i've got an nvidia card in my desktop here, but it's way to fast to recreate your bug ;)
<pitti> seb128: yelp updated to 3.3.2, and g_thread stuff fixed (and sent upstream)
 * pitti -> lunch
<mvo> chrisccoulson: sure
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> (back from lunch here)
<tjaalton> is there a way to hibernate from the precise unity gui?
<seb128> tjaalton, same as always, open the session indicator in the top right and pick hibernate?
<tjaalton> seb128: don't have that option, only suspend and shutdown
<tjaalton> fresh install
<tjaalton> hmm
<seb128> oh, I think hibernate is off by default
<tjaalton> yeah there's enough swap
<seb128> it's a question for pitti when he's back
<seb128> he turned it off somewhere by default
<tjaalton> ok so it's possibly editable from dconf-editor
<seb128> I don't think it's in gsettings, it's rather an etc file I think
<tjaalton> ah, ok
<seb128> like a polkit or upower setting
<tjaalton> yeah not seeing it
<seb128> but I can't remember where it is now, wait for pitti to be back
<tjaalton> sure
<tjaalton> thanks
<seb128> tjaalton, try looking at /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla
<seb128> ok, found it
<seb128> tjaalton, bug #812394
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 812394 in ayatana-design "Disable hibernate option by default" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/812394
<BigWhale> omg
<BigWhale> my unity died and didn't come back
<seb128> go to a vt and run "unity"
<BigWhale> yeah.. I did that :)
<tjaalton> seb128: great, thanks
<seb128> yw
<BigWhale> I blame the resize info plugin for compiz...
<chrisccoulson> mvo, thanks for doing the upload :)
<mvo> yw
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, when did gdbus land in glib (ie, which release)?
<chrisccoulson> ah, 2.26
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right
<chrisccoulson> ok, goodbye apturl dependency :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm no longer the only person depending on that
<pitti> tjaalton: yep, that's it; not that easy to find, though
<tjaalton> pitti: yeah, hope to have a config option for it before the release..
<seb128> tjaalton, see https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1ILTJDiDCd25Npt2AmgzF8aOnZZECxTfM0hvsbWT2BxA/edit?hl=en_GB section 2.3
<seb128> tjaalton, i.e it "should" happen (if it doesn't get dropped because we don't manage to get to it because too much to do)
<pitti> seb128: fixing yelp FTBFS, libfolks-dev missing dep
<tjaalton> seb128: heh, ok.. fingers crossed
<seb128> pitti, oki
<seb128> tjaalton, if you want to sign for some desktop work feel free btw ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw I bounced some bugs your way, dunno if you notice stuff where you get Cc-ed or assigned to
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh and I had dinner with my friend who has the tb pop indicator issues during the holidays and he nagged me about it again, I said I would use direct poking until it gets fixed if needed ;-)
<seb128> tb, pop, spam filtering, count issue ... dunno how you call it ;-) my friend seems to think it's not specific to pop though, just that tb doesn't refresh its count after dealing with spams locally
<nessita> tedg: hi there! I was suggested I ask you about this bug #726639. I tried the gconf-editor workaround and I still have the F10 key captured :-/
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 726639 in unity "F10 is captured even if gnome-terminal setting is explictly set to not capture" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/726639
<tedg> nessita, That's not a me thing...
<nessita> tedg: heh, any idea who I can ask? :-)
<tedg> nessita, Probably should harass njpatel or DBO
<nessita> tedg: thanks!
<tedg> nessita, Neither of which seem to be here today.
<nessita> tedg: I will seek for them tomorrow or the day after, thanks!
<nessita> does anyone know how to fix a just-now broken gnome-keyring? it broke after an update, full update trace is http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/791662/
<pitti> nessita: my fault
<pitti> nessita: I'll take care of it
<nessita> pitti: let me know! :-)
<pitti> nessita: you should be able to run apt-get -f install or dist-upgrade again to fix it locally
<nessita> (when is fixed, so I re-update)
<nessita> pitti: awesome, thanks
<seb128> pitti, you won bug #911232
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911232 in gnome-keyring "package libgcr-3-common (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gcr-3/ui/gcr-import-dialog.ui', which is also in package libgcr-3-1 3.2.2-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911232
<seb128> bah bug #908805
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 908805 in ubuntuone-client "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in got_public_files_cb()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/908805
<seb128> dobey, hey, happy new year
<seb128> dobey, could you get those u1 bugs fixed? they are collecting retracer dups since before the holidays
<seb128> oh and whoever between ken and you uploaded a broken version before the holidays deserves some slapping ;-)
<nessita> seb128: broken version of what exactly? I may deserve a slap as well :-)
<pitti> seb128: I guess I won the first one, too, that's nessita's
<pitti> seb128: not sure about 908805, I can have a look, though; did I break this with my libubuntuone upload?
<seb128> nessita, no, that one was for dobey
<nessita> seb128: ok, I was asking since I propose a broken package of ubuntuone-control-panel (I forgot to add an entry on a .install file). But ken fixed it and upload it (thanks ken!)
<seb128> nessita, the bug I pointed is a segfault in nautilus due to libsyncdaemon
<nessita> seb128: ah, I won't take a slap for that :-P
<seb128> pitti, sorry, you won the first one indeed, the second one was for dobey
<seb128> well dobey or kenvandine
<pitti> seb128: ah, misunderstood then
<seb128> speaking of who...
<kenvandine> happy new years!
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, happy new year ;-)
<pitti> kenvandine: hey Ken, happy new year!
<kenvandine> seb128, i talked to dobey about that, he was working on it
<mvo> pitti: does something like https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/python-distutils-extra/mvo/+merge/87357 make sense or is lucid compatibility more important?
<kenvandine> i found that crash right before the holiday
<seb128> kenvandine, what happened to the "revert if it's not fixed in half a day"?
<pitti> kenvandine: I gave you the geoclue task in bug 911125, ok for you?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911125 in librest "FTBFS due to removed g_thread_init" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911125
<seb128> kenvandine, seems an acceptance criteria fail
<seb128> kenvandine, we let user downs for 2 weeks....
<kenvandine> seb128, it wasn't a new bug... and it didn't seem to grave
<seb128> kenvandine, and it's spamming the retracers
<seb128> kenvandine, it seems new, we didn't get any bug before the uploads in the week before the holidays
<kenvandine> the bug had existed for several weeks now
<seb128> kenvandine, bug #908805 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 908805 in ubuntuone-client "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in got_public_files_cb()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/908805
<pitti> mvo: I'm fine with this; it's more a question for didrocks or mterry, as pysupport supports installation into /opt, and nothing else does so far
<pitti> mvo: but then again, I think pysupport got synced and that feature lost
<pitti> mvo: question for them for quickly, I mean
 * didrocks opens
<kenvandine> seb128, i had reproduced it without the ubuntuone-client-gnome upload right before the holiday
<dobey> seb128, kenvandine: yes, they will get fixed today; we have a scheduled release today
<kenvandine> dobey, cool
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, /opt will still be needed. I may need to spend some time to work with the dh_python guy to add this support
<mvo> didrocks: dosn't this work with the linked branch? i.e. just passing the module dir?
<mvo> or am I missing something?
<pitti> mvo: this drops the langpack stuff, though?
<pitti> mvo: we need a --with langpack if available
<mvo> pitti: aha,ok
<didrocks> mvo: I never tried the syntax dh_python2 (prefix, prefix, prefix), if you are confident it works, it's ok for me ;)
<nessita> silly question, how can I have a weather indicator in unity 2d? I have indicator-applet installer but I have no weather indication nowhere :-)
<seb128> kenvandine, dobey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/908787/comments/4 has details on the issue
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 908787 in ubuntuone-client "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash()" [High,Triaged]
<didrocks> nessita: have you installed indicator-weather by any chance?
<nessita> didrocks: yes, sorry, I meant "I have indicator-weather installed but..."
<pitti> mvo: ok, MP updated
<pitti> mvo: I can fix it up if you want
<nessita> didrocks:   Installed: 11.05.31-0ubuntu3
<didrocks> that's weird, should work. You are on oneiric, right? do you have it in unity-3d?
<mvo> pitti: that would be nice, if its no trouble
<nessita> didrocks: I'm on precise, and running unity-2d. Performance of 3d is, from my POV, unacceptable
<pitti> nessita: fix uploaded, BTW
<nessita> pitti: yey! though I already applied the workaround you mentioned before
<nessita> dobey: hi there! question, would you know why I'm getting this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/791685/ I can't run make check on a u1client branch
<didrocks> nessita: if you have the time to just try it in unity-3d to ensure it's unity-2d issue or an indicator one (don't have the indicator installed there)
<nessita> didrocks: sure, I can try that
<dobey> nessita: not specifically. did you change the clientdefs.py.in?
<nessita> dobey: not at all
<nessita> dobey: I'm reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~ralsina/ubuntuone-client/fix_904300/+merge/87073
<nessita> dobey: and I'm on precise
<dobey> i'll look
<nessita> didrocks: I logged in with another user on a unity-3d session and I see no weather indicator nowhere. Shall I "activate" it somewhere?
<dobey> nessita: run it; but when i tried indicator-weather it was *very* unstable
<seb128> dobey, did you see the comment I pointed before?
<dobey> crashed often
<seb128> dobey, that guy debugged the issue in libsyncdaemon so it might avoid you work if you didn't debug yet
<dobey> seb128: yes. i have those mails in my bug folder
<seb128> ok
<dobey> thanks
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> nessita: no, you shouldn't need to. I will have a try later on my machine to confirm (need to finish something before rebooting unity). If it still fails, it's maybe because the indicator is simply broken
<nessita> didrocks: I see. Thanks!
<nessita> didrocks: FYI, running indicator-weather in my unity-2d session worked
<didrocks> nessita: ok, so not autostarted anymore? I'll have a look
<nessita> didrocks: thanks! (no rush, of course)
<pitti> cyphermox: good morning, happy new year!
<cyphermox> hey pitti
<cyphermox> happy new year
<mvo> hey cyphermox! happy new year to you
<mvo> too
<cyphermox> hey mvo
<pitti> cyphermox: are you ok with the three evo tasks in bug 911125?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911125 in yelp "FTBFS due to removed g_thread_init" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911125
<pitti> cyphermox: presumably it's all fixed in upstream trunk already
<cyphermox> yes
<pitti> cyphermox: thanks
<cyphermox> and yeah, i believe it is already fixed upstream
<pitti> I did most of the rest now, but left one for kenvandine and one for RAOF
<chrisccoulson> oh, excellent. extensions compatible by default reduces my workload a little :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, less strict MaxVersions now?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, by default, it's basically ignored for extensions which don't have binary components, aren't a theme, and don't have a maxVersion of less than 4.0
<chrisccoulson> (based on the fact that most extensions don't need any code changes to work with newer versions)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - of course, that can be overridden by metadata from addons.mozilla.org, eg, if people mark the addon as incompatible
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that sounds quite nice
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it should be much better
<BigWhale> err
<BigWhale> if I try to import appindicator in python, my program will crash and burn with some gtk-2.0 assertion errors
<BigWhale> am I doing something wrong?
<tjaalton> chrisccoulson: hey, does this bug ring a bell; two firefox windows, on different workspaces, fight for the input focus (unity, oneiric). to restore sanity I need to switch the focus to a third ffox window, but it'll come back before too long..
<tjaalton> first i thought it had to do with fullscreen windows, but using "normal" ones didn't help
<tjaalton> s/fullscreen/maximized/
<kenvandine> BigWhale, hey
<BigWhale> ken!
<seb128> could be bug #872207
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 872207 in firefox "When Firefox is running in Unity, drop-down menus sometime close when opened" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872207
<BigWhale> kenvandine, where have you been hiding? :)
<kenvandine> is your app using gtk2 or gtk3?
<BigWhale> kenvandine, gtk3
<kenvandine> hanging with the family for the holidays :)
<BigWhale> kenvandine, awesome ... same here
<kenvandine> and are you using GI or the static bindings?
<seb128> didrocks, hey, do you have some time for a new review?
<BigWhale> kenvandine, I am guessing that I need to import something else
<BigWhale> I'm using gi
<kenvandine> from gi.repository import AppIndicator
<BigWhale> oh
<BigWhale> thanks
<kenvandine> np
<kenvandine> :)
<BigWhale> ken, why aren't things like this written somewhere?
<BigWhale> kenvandine, the question was of course rhetorical and not targeted against anyone :)
<kenvandine> BigWhale, of course :)
<tjaalton> seb128: was that for me? menus open fine, and for instance opening the prefs window restores focus
<seb128> tjaalton, yes it was, dunno then
<seb128> I was pointing it in case
<tjaalton> yeah, ok
<didrocks> seb128: hum, in half an hour should be ok, still fighting with vala :)
<seb128> didrocks, funny that you say that :p
<didrocks> oh why?
<seb128> didrocks, it's vala-0.16 which I just uploaded to NEW, should be easy to review since it's just a rename of the packaging for the new serie ;-)
<didrocks> argh, if I new! :)
<didrocks> knew*
<tjaalton> seb128: hmm, could be that I'm seeing an incarnation of that bug though
<didrocks> if I knew, I can new it :p
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<tjaalton> mostly annoying when closing tabs from the wrong window :/
<seb128> pitti, hey, if one day you get some free time I would appreciate a review (and maybe some sponsoring) of http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/libgda5/
<pitti> didrocks: the GNU version? :)
<didrocks> pitti: heh, excellent ;)
<pitti> seb128: ah, sure; why sponsoring, did you lose debian uploading?
<seb128> pitti, it's basically gda4 -> gda5, but I still don't have a Debian build environment, I would appreciate a review as well before sending it in NEW to increase chances to see it go through on the first try ;-)
<pitti> seb128: ah, I see; sure, that's no problem
<seb128> pitti, sponsoring> because I suck at keeping a debian unstable build system uptodate ;-)
<seb128> (I don't like to saturate my download with it while I'm working and I don't let the computer on during nights)
<seb128> one day Debian maybe will accept source uploads ;-)
<BigWhale> kenvandine, do I have to install some dev package to get AppIndicator gir?
<pitti> seb128: ah, so it's not yet ready for upload
<kenvandine> gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1
<kenvandine> BigWhale, ^^
<seb128> pitti, by the time you look through it will, I'm dropping the unversionned binaries for the first upload
<seb128> pitti, we can add an alternative for those later if required
<kenvandine> BigWhale, oh.... btw for gtk3 "from gi.repository import AppIndicator3"
<BigWhale> oh that works
<BigWhale> :>
<pitti> seb128: debian/copyright could need some update
<pitti> seb128: I mean the obsolete X-Format-Specification: and other X- headers
<seb128> pitti, well it's just a copy of gda4
<seb128> the source is a rename for a new serie
<seb128> but I guess you are right, archive admin might be picky about that
<pitti> right, but still, DEP5 looks different now
<seb128> I hate debian/copyright ;-)
<pitti> seb128: it looks fine to me otherwise
<mvo> is python-gobject the right assigment for e.g. bug #907568 ? AIUI the threading stuff is now initalized automatically, but I don't get why doing it manually casues a segfault
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 907568 in pygobject "software-center crashed with SIGSEGV in PyGILState_Ensure()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/907568
<pitti> mvo: presuambly because g_threads_init() is deprecated now
<pitti> but yes, in principle it should be against pygobject and/or glib (not sure which) as well
<mvo> thanks, I opened a bugtask for that and fixed s-c
<seb128> pitti, ok, gda changelog, unversionned binaries and copyright updated
<seb128> pitti, can you build and upload for me if it looks ok to you?
<pitti> seb128: ah, did you already tag the new version? (no UNRELEASED any more)
<pitti> svn diff -r r32299:r32301 -> looks fine, thanks for cleaning it up
<seb128> pitti, doh, no, I suck
<seb128> pitti, one sec
<pitti> seb128: hang on
<seb128> I'm updating the watch for .xz
<pitti> seb128: I usually only tag after building and uploading succeeded
<pitti> was just wondering
<pitti> seb128: ah
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I didn't tag, I'm setting back to UNRELESED and updating the watch
<seb128> pitti, I've not tagged anything on the svn for years, I just commit fixes usually and let other roll the updates since I can't build them, but it should be ready to release and tag if you want to do it
<seb128> or please give me the command if you want me to run it ;-)
<pitti> seb128: yes, I'm happy to tag it
<seb128> thank
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: FYI, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/scripts/sbp-release (but I'll do it anyway; uploading and tagging should really be done by the same person, at the same time)
<seb128> pitti, that can be handy, and agreed ... thanks ;-)
<didrocks> waow, that was weirdâ¦ apt-cache policy ensuring that I have unity-common 4.24.0-0ubuntu3 installed from the repo, and me having only /usr/share/unity/5/ and not /usr/share/unity/4/
<didrocks> at reboot, it didn't really agree to start :)
 * Sweetshark dances a bit.
<Sweetshark> \o\ |o| /o/
<pitti> hey Sweetshark, gesundes Neues!
<Sweetshark> pitti: danke, Dir auch!
 * Sweetshark has a a fresh baked libreoffice_3.5.0~beta2-3_amd64.deb and 47 other debs on his disc.
<Sweetshark> pitti: where did you party?
<pitti> Sweetshark: we went to Dresden over the holidays; for new year we went to a student club
<pitti> was pretty nice
<Sweetshark> pitti: oh, cool!
<pitti> mvo: fixed up python-mkdebian, thanks! will upload now
<pitti> mvo: or want me to wait for something else?
 * mvo hugs pitti
<mvo> pitti: fine from my side, I don't have anything else pending
 * pitti hugs mvo back
<Sweetshark> pitti: after seeing the "sachsen dreht frei"-talk on 28c3, Id be a bit scared of going to saxony ;)
<Sweetshark> (well, I didnt saw that talk live as I arrived on day 2 -- still quite a jawdropper)
<pitti> Sweetshark: what was the gist of it? I didn't hear anything scary :)
<seb128> pitti, sorry I did a stupid typo in the libgda5 .install, just fixed it
<pitti> seb128: seb128@d.o. okay?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<didrocks> seb128: do you have something depending on vala 0.16 or should it be in universe?
<seb128> didrocks, universe is fine
<seb128> didrocks, next shotwell will depends on it but it's not out yet
<didrocks> seb128: ok, acking then :) lot of renaming!
<didrocks> we shoud maybe look at some point to make that more generic if we are going this road for a long time :)
<pitti> didrocks: does it build the versionless metapackages already?
<didrocks> pitti: it doesn't
<kenvandine> didrocks, but we will go with vala-0.16 for precise?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-) and indeed!
<kenvandine> if so i should make sure gwibber builds with it sooner than later :)
<didrocks> valac is still 0.14 for now, I think seb's approach is safer to not put it by default right now :)
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_, desrt, agateau: meeting reminder in 12 mins
<seb128> pitti, I dropped "valac" and lower the alternative score
<seb128> pitti, I don't want to make a .0 unstable default ;-)
<didrocks> no fun :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> "go with 0.16"
<seb128> well we had 2 versions in main every cycle it seems
<Sweetshark> pitti: among other things they searched the rooms of a priest (including areas protected by the confession secret) and tapped into his phone, including when it was used by her daughter (and they knew she was using it). his daughter is a member of the saxon parlament and should have immunity. ... and that is just the tip of the ice. There was also use of phone cell supervision and and imsi-catchers ...
<seb128> shotwell will require 0.16, I updated because adam emailed me asking for it
<seb128> not sure we will drop the old ones
<kenvandine> pitti, i will need to miss the meeting, i have to leave in 10 min to pickup my son from pre-school
<seb128> we should at least get 0.12 out of main ;-)
<kenvandine> but i added details for my agenda item to the wiki
<kenvandine> and i'll read back
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks
<pitti> seb128: package built, ready to dput and tag on your word
<seb128> pitti, word ;-)
<Sweetshark> pitti: ah, and for the search of the rooms the police of saxony rode into neighbor state thueringen (prolly without informing authorities there). And the accused learned about the case going to court from the press.
<pitti> Sweetshark: fun!
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_, desrt, agateau: meeting time
<chrisccoulson> w00t
<seb128> hey!
<didrocks> hey
 * kenvandine runs out... bbiab
<pitti> seb128: libgda5 uploaded/tagged
<seb128> \o/
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-01-03
<pitti> welcome everyone to 2012, happy new year!
<pitti> the wiki page looks a bit weird, I think some agenda items were really meant for the summary section
<pitti> bryceh, tjaalton, RAOF: anyone from you here to discuss teh X 1.11 agenda item?
<pitti> (I suppose it was meant for the report section)
<pitti> so, I suppose not
<pitti> telepathy-indicator call for testing> do we need to discuss that? also looks like a "report" thingy
<seb128> no discussion needed from what kenvandine said
<pitti> ack
<pitti> so, Rally agenda
<seb128> he just used the section as an "announces to do" one
<seb128> I guess bryce did the same for X
<pitti> I'd like to collect some things that are on your mind which we should do on the rally
<pitti> things which benefit from having lots of hardware and people in the same room
<pitti> e. g. I want to work on the power consumption bits, as we can test it with lots of laptops there
<pitti> and also get http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-desktop-team.html back on track :)
<cyphermox> I've got a fair amount of things to fix/test in NM related to IPv6 and DNS resolving, mostly will work with stgraber on that though
<pitti> please just everyone throw in their ideas, I don't think we need to have standups for everyone
<seb128> we could bootcharts different config for login time as well
<didrocks> well, we will probably have the compiz/unity release at the same time (first real one in precise), so testing at least on nvidia/intel/ati can be great
<seb128> different cpu, io level will show different issues
<seb128> we also need to review the GNOME3, gnome-control-center scheduled changes
<cyphermox> ah, my laptop boots *real* quick so far
<seb128> that was sort of relying on rodrigo to get done so we will need to see what we can keep and dispatch those
<seb128> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1ILTJDiDCd25Npt2AmgzF8aOnZZECxTfM0hvsbWT2BxA/edit?hl=en_GB
<seb128> that's the spec
<pitti> seb128: right, we need to finish the region bits (packagekit integration)
<jbicha> happy 2012!
<seb128> hey jbicha, happy new year to you as well!
<didrocks> add the unity configuration part as well, should be easy enough
<pitti> jbicha: happy new year!
<didrocks> happy new year jbicha :)
<didrocks> I'll surely work with the dx guys to finish the latest autopilot integration with autobuild and help them deploy the infra for other projects as well, so won't be in the desktop room 100% of the time
<jbicha> pitti: bug 905391 appears to be caused by pygobject 3.0.3
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 905391 in gnome-games "gnome-sudoku crashed with IndexError in _get_(): list index out of range" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905391
<pitti> jbicha: yes, that drove my wife mad in the train ride :)
<pitti> jbicha: (meeting going on, FYI)
<BigWhale> Whoever wrote AppIndicators is seriously making fun out of me... :>
<pitti> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Rally/Precise/Desktop
<pitti> thanks everyone for the ideas so far; if you have more, please add here ^
<tjaalton> pitti: i'm around
<pitti> tjaalton: do you want to discuss anything about the 1.11 PPA? (it was on the agenda section, but presumably unintended)
<tjaalton> pitti: well, no news from my part, unity is still broken
<pitti> tjaalton: ok, thanks
<tjaalton> i've been running the ppa for two weeks, no other issues, other than synaptics jumping to (0,0) every now and then
<pitti> tjaalton: do you have two syndaemons running by chance?
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_, desrt, agateau: AOB?
<didrocks> nothing else for me
<cyphermox> ah just one small thing
<cyphermox> bluez: it ftbfs due to some issue in inline asm; normally i try to look after it, but this I don't really know or understand so well, i'd need help :)
<tjaalton> pitti: nope
<seb128> cyphermox, try updating to the new upstream version in case it fixes it?
<pitti> cyphermox: on some arches, or on all?
<cyphermox> ah, right, there's the new version now
<cyphermox> pitti: as it's an issue in sbc_primitives_mmx I'd say just i386 and amd64
<tjaalton> pitti: sorry, yes i do
<tjaalton> ..but it happens without it too
<seb128> cyphermox, you just signed for the update, thanks ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128: sure :)
<pitti> cyphermox: if the new upstream version doesn't fix it, could you please open a bug about it? easier to show to different people, e. g. cjwatson is a real asm crack
<skaet> didrocks, pitti - seeing some worrying behavior on my oneiric system after applying SRUs yesterday...  anyone else seeing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/911076 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911076 in unity-2d "trackpad mouse freezes after updates - regression" [High,New]
<didrocks> skaet: seems to be the syndaemon issue, isn't it?
<pitti> skaet: bug 868400 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 868400 in lightdm "Synaptics touchpad stops working - two syndaemon instances running" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868400
 * skaet looking
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_, desrt, agateau: thanks, adjourning then
<didrocks> seems it's just more frequent for you now. I can be within a week on my netbook without having it
<seb128> thanks pitti
<mterry> (sorry I was late to meeting guys, forgot I didn't have IRC on)
<seb128> hey mterry, happy new year!
<pitti> hey mterry, happy new year!
<mterry> Hi!
<Riddell> sorry I was late, it's still a holiday in Scotland
<chrisccoulson> Riddell, you've not been blown away yet then?
<pitti> hey Riddell, happy new year! feeling better?
<pitti> so, good night everyone! got a headache (damn cold..), so TTFN
<Riddell> chrisccoulson: a load of road closures today from roofs having been blown right off
<Riddell> pitti: actually I am thanks, plenty to still recover yet but it has definately become better
<didrocks> happy new year mterry! :)
<mterry> Hi didrocks!
<pitti> Riddell: good to hear
<nessita> didrocks: hello again. Quick update on the indicator-weather thing: I rebooted and re-login, and I still can't see it but when I try to run it from the command line,  I get "Another instance of this program is already running"
<didrocks> nessita: not sure, can be a weather indicator issue or a libindicator one, tedg ^^
<didrocks> nessita: will install tomorrow to have a look, just ping me at least so that i can confirm or not your issue there
 * didrocks needs to run for sport now, see you tomorrow everyone!
<nessita> didrocks: sure, thanks!
 * tedg is quite sure it isn't a libindicator issue, libappindicator perhaps :-)
<didrocks> tedg: you and your naming scheme! :)
<didrocks> tedg: happy new year and see your tomorrow! :)
<didrocks> you*
<dobey> is jasoncwarner_ back from holidays already?
<dobey> mterry: around?
<mterry> dobey, yeah
<dobey> mterry: have you heard anything about the ProjectTracking thing wrt u1?
<mterry> dobey, no
<dobey> :-/
<dobey> skaet: ping. are you around?
<skaet> dobey, yup
 * skaet looks at backsrcoll...
<dobey> skaet: there is some lack of understanding about how ubuntuone is supposed to integrate with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEngineering/12.04/UpstreamDevelopment/ProjectTracking
<dobey> skaet: in particularly i am not sure what some of those columns mean exactly, and how we can integrate with this platform requirement, without causing our own releases to get blocked trying to get uploaded into precise
<kenvandine> dobey, that is kind of the point... someone from platform needs to be responsible for what lands in precise
<kenvandine> that someone probably being me
 * skaet defers to kenvandine ;)
<kenvandine> dobey, i guess i should have made sure you made it to those sessions at UDS :)
<dobey> and it sucks for us
<dobey> yeah, perhaps :)
<kenvandine> it slows things down, yes
<kenvandine> but the goal is quality, and not keeping precise usable everyday
<kenvandine> which helps make it easier for people to switch to it earlier for development
<dobey> yes, i understand the goal
<dobey> the goal isn't the problem :)
<kenvandine> s/not //
<skaet> kenvandine s/not keeping/keeping/
<skaet> :)
<kenvandine> indeed :)
<kenvandine> i haven't heard anything about handling people with per-package upload rights... but I guess I would review it and let you upload
<kenvandine> i assume
<skaet> kenvandine, ralsina is listed as the signoff - are you the backup?  or anyone else on the desktop team?
<dobey> and also, that
<dobey> skaet: ralsina doesn't even have any upload privs to ubuntu afaik
<dobey> kenvandine: and given what i was hoping to do for the u1 packages, this becomes an even bigger pain for us
<dobey> kenvandine: which is, to have a packageset that we can upload to without having to chase people down
<kenvandine> dobey, yeah, i understand the pain point for you guys
<kenvandine> but this is the process
<dobey> kenvandine: and i don't understand how it's ok for some projects to have the same trunk owner/feature owner/distro owner; and yet some must be forced to depend on others
<kenvandine> most of them depend on others
<kenvandine> look at DX
<dobey> yes, but there are exceptions
<dobey> why are the exceptions special?
<kenvandine> which exceptions?
<kenvandine> dobey, although the goal isn't to have a different person from distro looking at it
<seb128> exceptions are mostly project which have 1 hacker and nobody to do reviews
<kenvandine> the goal is to have someone from distro responsible
<kenvandine> right, like gwibber, deja dup
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> those we are upstream for and less official
<dobey> lightdm, upstart, gwibber, jockey, apport, ecryptfs, ufw, apparmor, postgresql-common, dejadupâ¦
<seb128> you can add "and the maintainer has been doing an correct job at writing testcases for its software and not rolling broken versions"
<seb128> they are mostly small one person projects without a record of issues
<seb128> it doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if they had a second hacker and reviews
<seb128> but we didn't block on that
<dobey> eep, come back ken!
<nessita> anyone knows where lp-project-upload went on precise?
<nessita> I have ubuntu-dev-tools installed, but the script is gone afais
<Laney> i think it's in lptools now
<dobey> lptools
<nessita> Laney, dobey: thanks!
<dobey> kenvandine: so i do feel that some of the u1 projects are very similar to those exceptions, in that way. but we need a solution for this, because it doesn't seem right.
<kenvandine> it's no different than the DX packages
<kenvandine> if you have some that you don't think should be on the list
<kenvandine> let me know
<dobey> i think having a packageset or per-package-upload privs, shouldn't be made meaningless by the process; and that seems to be what the process does :(
<kenvandine> skaet, do you know if anyone has raised that concern?
<kenvandine> dobey, the definition was set as a distro team member
<kenvandine> but perhaps someone that has been granted upload rights should fit that description
<dobey> kenvandine: right; and having per-package-upload (and wanting to propose a packageset for u1), and not being on the distro team, is annoying there
<skaet> kenvandine, I've not heard that concern raised, but am wondering if distro readiness owner should have them as a condition, before having ehir name in that column. ?
<kenvandine> skaet, yeah, i would imagine that is expected
<kenvandine> but what about non-distro team members with upload rights?  Perhaps they should be able to own distro readiness, as long as they understand the requirements
<skaet> kenvandine,  yeah, it probably needs a good discussion with jasoncwarner_ and then some cleanup of the page
<mvo> cyphermox: just fyi, I hacked the gtk3 synaptic branch a bit over the holidays and it starts up now in full gtk3 glory
<cyphermox> mvo: yay
<mvo> what a history of toolkits: wings, gtk1, gtk2, gtk3
<cyphermox> well, now that's done, let's switch to qt :)
<dobey> hmm
<micahg> mvo: re synaptic> I haven't checked 0.75.4 yet, but with 0.75.3, we had a huge translation diff with debian and I was wondering if that can be reduced, I guess I can let you know if I see the same with 0.75.4
 * dobey summons jasoncwarner
<dobey> oh i guess irccloud.com just went bust
<mvo> micahg: hm, a bad diff? a couple of months ago dpm and I added auto-sync of the bzr with the translations with rosetta
<micahg> mvo: ok, I'll check again with 0.75.4 and see if there's a real issue
<mvo> thanks
<Ampelbein> pitti: Hi, the fix you uploaded for bug 911232 FTBFS in amd64 and i386, making gnome-keyring still broken on those arches.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911232 in gnome-keyring "package libgcr-3-common (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gcr-3/ui/gcr-import-dialog.ui', which is also in package libgcr-3-1 3.2.2-0ubuntu1" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911232
<Ampelbein> (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring/3.2.2-1ubuntu2)
<micahg> one of the tests hung the buildd
<BigWhale> Sometimes I wish certain open source software didn't feel like it was made by A.C.M.E. corporation ...
 * micahg was wondering why help in GNOME is called yelp :)
<seb128> ok, I retried the gnome-keyring builds
<seb128> let see if they get lucky
<chrisccoulson> i can see that this is going to result in me trying it in my hardy VM isn't it? ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, look at the bug assigned to you to start with ;-)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I have a different test failing in a precise chroot :)
<micahg> err, rather hung
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm tb indicator bugs for you if you want :p
<micahg> non-deterministic failures are the most fun
<seb128> chrisccoulson, just saying... ;-)
<dobey> jasoncwarner_: wake up ;)
<dobey> kenvandine: hey, can you sponsor nessita's ubuntu-sso-client proposal real quick? it's a pretty tiny set of changes, and fixes an annoying issue when trying to authenticate a machine to sso, caused by the updated twisted in precise
<kenvandine> dobey, sure
<dobey> kenvandine: thanks
<nessita> dobey: heh, I was looking at the patch pilot calendar :-)
<nessita> kenvandine: thanks! https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/precise/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-2.99.1/+merge/87403
<dobey> heh
<nessita> kenvandine: and thanks for catching the issue with the former controlpanel packaging branch
<kenvandine> np
<dobey> what was the issue with cp packaging?
<nessita> dobey: but the calendar is kinda short of people
<nessita> dobey: I forgot to add the utils (new) package to the .install file
<nessita> python package, that is
<dobey> oh
<nessita> yeah
<dobey> nessita: well kenvandine is a fan of mine, so he's usually able to help :)
<kenvandine> lol
 * nessita will love to see kenvandine's face right now
<kenvandine> nessita, hard to see, rolling around on the floor lmao atm :)
<nessita> heh
<dobey> eh
 * kenvandine hugs dobey :)
<dobey> he looks the same as he does at UDS when i'm talking to him :)
<dobey> his face is usually flushed with joy ;P
<BigWhale> kenvandine, I am learing GTK3 from bugs assigned to you. You should tell your boss about this. :>
<BigWhale> well AppIndicator, to be more precise
<kenvandine> haha
<BigWhale> :)) yeah, I was groping in the dark for a while... before I figured out that you cant instantiate AppIndicatior.Indicator
<kenvandine> oh that bug
<kenvandine> :)
<BigWhale> yeah
<BigWhale> not a big deal if you know where to look! ;)
 * kenvandine doesn't really remember the deal with that... but it was painful to find
<dobey> is it an interface rather than an object?
<kenvandine> that might be it
<kenvandine> so you can't subclass it
<dobey> you can subclass it as a new interface, but you can't turn it into a gobject
<BigWhale> it's the foo = AppIndicatior3.Indicator() vs. bar = AppIndicator3.Indicator.new()
<dobey> oh
<BigWhale> first one will segfault python
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> different issue
<dobey> so the introspection is just wrong
<kenvandine> no default constructor
<kenvandine> or so it thinks
<dobey> yeah, the metadata is missing in the .gir
<kenvandine> and i think that is caused by namespace clash in C
<BigWhale> well the bug is about subclassing, but people then talk about constructor too
<kenvandine> you can't subclass it because of the constructor
<dobey> well subclassing in python without a default constructor, will break
<kenvandine> exactly
<dobey> you can subclass it in C just fine though
<BigWhale> Who codes in C nowadays? :>
<BigWhale> (I will soon ... )
<BigWhale> ... if I decide to make that gstreamer plugin that I need
<dobey> anyone who wants fine grained control over their program :)
<BigWhale> dobey, I was just trolling ... :> I wrote loads of C :>
<BigWhale> still do, here and there
<kenvandine> nessita, sponsored
<nessita> kenvandine: thanks!
<kenvandine> nessita, anytime!
<dobey> yay
<BigWhale> I ported around 80% of the UI. Yay!
<BigWhale> from pygtk to gi
<kenvandine> BigWhale, cool
<kenvandine> i am adding GI unit tests to gwibber now :)
<BigWhale> wow awesome
<BigWhale> I kinda feel bad... I've been neglecting gwibber too much lately
<BigWhale> But I did resurrect Kazam! :)
<kenvandine> i have too :(
<kenvandine> what is kazam?
<davmor2> kenvandine: screen record/capture tool if I recall
<davmor2> kenvandine: https://launchpad.net/kazam
<mterry> I'm assuming X is working for everyone else on current precise?  /me starts rolling back locally changed packages
<chrisccoulson> mterry, no idea, i haven't upgraded in about a month ;)
<chrisccoulson> i should upgrade really :)
<kenvandine> mterry, seems fine here
<RAOF> mterry: Works here :)
<cyphermox> no issues to report here either
<mterry> cool, thanks all
<dobey> mterry: works for me; the new gma500 psb_gfx driver in the kernel even seems to work reasonably ok
<TheMuso> No problem here, upgraded yesterday.
<mterry> hrm.  rolling back my recent local changes didn't change anything...
<TheMuso> Log time.
<mterry> Nothing interesting in my logs that I can see
<mterry> Nope, found it!
<mterry> Thanks
<RAOF> What form of breakage are we seeing?
<mterry> I've got some broken interlinking between unity-greeter and liblightdm that I must have caused
<mterry> Must not have rolled back everything...  /me digs deeper
<mterry> thanks again
<jasoncwarner_> hey bryceh robert_ancell RAOF and TheMuso Meeting Time. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-01-03 If you have any agenda items, please put them on there and we'll have a meeting.
<bryceh> heya
<jasoncwarner_> Otherwise, there is one agenda item, the Rally agenda. Wiki here https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Rally/Precise/Desktop
<RAOF> Hi
<jasoncwarner_> hey RAOF and bryceh
<bryceh> no topics here
<RAOF> None here.  Sorry for putting the Xserver 1.11 stuff in the agenda section (if it was me that did it âº)
<jasoncwarner_> ok...seems no topics...please be sure to fill out the wiki
<jasoncwarner_> and be sure to put items on the Rally agenda wiki....
<jasoncwarner_> :)
<TheMuso> Hrm I didn't see a link to the rally agenda wiki on the meeting page... Am I looking in the wrong place?
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: it is in the chat transcript
<bryceh> RAOF, anything you want to work on together?
<RAOF> bryceh: I'd be happy to do some work on xrandr-utils with you; I was planning to do the lock-screen work with robert_ancell.
<dobey> jasoncwarner_: hey there
<RAOF> We can probably do both :)
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Thanks.,
 * bryceh nods
<dobey> oh you have a meeting; i'll wait :)
<RAOF> I do, however, need to actually coordinate with robert_ancell about that.  This is the first he's hearing of it :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, indeed it is :)
<robert_ancell> sounds like a job for Budapest!
<RAOF> <cue theme music>
<TheMuso> lol
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-lock-screen likely to get done for Precise?  If so, Budapest seems a good time to work on it.  If not, yay fewer work items.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I'd like to say yes, and Budapest will definitely know by the end of Budapest
<robert_ancell> drop the first Budapest there...
<RAOF> Cool.  I'll add that to our sprint agenda.
<RAOF> You're still waiting on design for the lock screen?
<chrisccoulson> tut tut google - http://searchengineland.com/google-chrome-page-will-have-pagerank-reduced-due-to-sponsored-posts-106551 ;)
<dobey> jasoncwarner_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/03/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t18:09 to about 18:51 some discussion/concerns about the ProjectTracking distro readiness stuff as relates to u1 and other cases of people with uploaad privs for various things
<dobey> jasoncwarner_: we require your input on it :)
<jasoncwarner_> dobey: taking a look now
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-04
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Ampelbein: seems someone gave it back, g-keyring should be fine now
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner_, happy new year!
<jasoncwarner_> hey pitti you as well!
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<didrocks> good morning
<BigWhale> after ~4 hours of sleep I can't really call it good .. :>
<didrocks> :/
<BigWhale> that's why I get for staying up late and hacking ...
<BigWhale> :>
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti. How are you?
<pitti> didrocks: cold in full progress. :/
<didrocks> pitti: urgh, take it easy today then!
<rickspencer3> didrocks, bonjour
<didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3, comment vas-tu?
<rickspencer3> Ã§a va bien, et tois?
<rickspencer3> en fait, j'ai commencÃ© mon script pour Â«unity_stressÂ»
<rickspencer3> didrocks, so far, the script changes workspaces every .5 seconds n times
<rickspencer3> didrocks, what else should I make it do?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: trigger expose for applications with multiple windows
<rickspencer3> didrocks, that sounds hard ;)
<rickspencer3> I'll give it a try though
<rickspencer3> like, open a bunch of gedit windows and trigger exposÃ©?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, and then close expose, and trigger it again. You have a keyboard shortcut in ccsm for that, so rather, using that shortcut I woul say
<didrocks> would
<rickspencer3> ok, I'll look into it
<rickspencer3> obviously minimizing windows as well ;)
<didrocks> yeah, minimzing/restoring/maximizing
<didrocks> we can as well use my little soft for quicklist/progress bars
<rickspencer3> hey desktoppers, who in Ubuntu One do I assign bugs to? is there a team?
<pitti> rickspencer3: ~ubuntuone-hackers AFAIK
<rickspencer3> thanks pitti
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: how are you writing this script btw ?
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: compiz can expose certain functionality over dbus, might make it easier for you to automate these things
<smspillaz> (user driven things, like, initiating expo, scale, etc etc etc)
<rickspencer3> hi smspillaz it's a bash script, if that helps
<rickspencer3> didrocks, looks like there is a compiz update in the desktop PPA
<rickspencer3> should I take it?
<rickspencer3> (for Oneiric)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: seb128 did it on december, he told me that he didn't see any isssue so far
<rickspencer3> ok
<didrocks> rickspencer3: so yeah, please, take it and pull the trigger if things go badly :)
 * rickspencer3 clicks Install Updates
 * didrocks crosses fingers :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, what command in ccsm do I need to use to activate spread by keyboard?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: uno momento! :)
<rickspencer3> en espanol?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: mon espagnole est pire que mon allemand, tu ne veux pas tester :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks windows-z spreads everything
<rickspencer3> is that good enough?
<rickspencer3> or do you need to one app only spread?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, was just looking at that, it's the same code, so for stressing, it's good enough :)
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> thanks man
<didrocks> you're really welcome :)
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
<seb128> hey pitti, I'm good, my cold is almost over (at least my nose stopped being blocked during nights)
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> cold still in full progress, but bearable in the mornings
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> pitti, libgda5 got accepted in Debian btw
<seb128> efficient NEWing nowadays ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I saw, it was really quick!
<pitti> seb128: btw, do you have a clue about bug 911622?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911622 in gdk-pixbuf "[12.04] GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden (file not found)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911622
<seb128> not off hand, let me have a look
<seb128> pitti, ok, I know
<chrisccoulson> good morning world
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. how are you?
<seb128> pitti, hum, no, in fact I don't know, I though it was maybe similar to the gtk3 I fixed yesterday and the postinst call failing when the olddir was empty
<seb128> but that has been handled in gdk-pixbuf by using find to list the files
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<chrisccoulson> wow, it's quite amazing that when you search for "chrome" in google this morning, this page ranks higher than google's browser: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Chrome_Registration
<seb128> chrisccoulson, open a bug!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, lol
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i think it's intentional: http://searchengineland.com/google-chrome-page-will-have-pagerank-reduced-due-to-sponsored-posts-106551 ;)
<chrisccoulson> google got caught out violating their own rules with a sponsored post campaign for chrome ;)
<chrisccoulson> which is hardly surprising tbh.....
<seb128> chrisccoulson, "sponsored post compain"?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, paying sites to post bogus content with a link to the chrome website to boost page rankings ;)
<seb128> ...
<seb128> no comment
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> I switch to bing, at least it lists chrome first when I type "chrome" :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> bing must be using a similar algorithm for page rankings as chrome then. perhaps someone should contact microsoft to have them decrease the ranking for the chrome website too ;)
<chrisccoulson> **as google
<chrisccoulson> d'ohg
<seb128> ;-)
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: yeah, so it should be possible, if we enable the d-bus plugin by default to trigger those things using d-bus-send
<rickspencer3> smspillaz, I'm finding it rather easy with xdotool to do what I want, in fact
<smspillaz> sure
<smspillaz> xdotool works as well, although using d-bus might make things a little less fragile in case, eg, the keybindings change
<pitti> seb128: hm, I have an apport fix for ignoring the __memcpy_sse3 and friends stuff
<pitti> seb128: I'll also ignore __kernel_vsyscall() while I'm at it
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<pitti> seb128: the problem is that committing this will break the existing duplicate db
<pitti> as a lot of the current signatures have the old stuff
<pitti> so we'll temporarily get non-detected duplicates, but dup detection will have a higher quality in the future
<pitti> that's a bit tricky
<seb128> well, we will deal with it
<pitti> seb128: hopefuly the address signatures will take care of it somewhat
<pitti> but we'll see more of these SystemErrors in teh future
<pitti> seb128: so there's two options:
<pitti> - leave the assertions and dupe the bugs manually
<pitti> - ignore the assertion and force the duplication, at the expense of false positives
<pitti> I propose we'll roll this out, wait for a few crashes, investigate that duping is really correct in these cases
<pitti> and once we get convinced that it's right, automatically dupe for a while
<pitti> seb128: unfortunately it's not easy to manually hack the dupe db to just filter out the ignored stuff, as we are lacking the frames after the existing ones
<seb128> pitti, you somewhat lost me there, why will we have an increase of those systemerrors?
<pitti> seb128: we currently get this assertion if the following happens:
<pitti> - a crash has the same address signature as the existing one
<pitti> (that's the new way of client-side dupe detection)
<pitti> - after retracing the fully symbolic trace has a different signature than the existing bug
<pitti> this assumes that fully symbolic traces are "better"
<seb128> which is a correct enough assumption ;-)
<pitti> i. e. all equal address sigs should also have an equal symbolic sig
<pitti> we got the previous SystemErrors because the symbolic sigs had different __strcpy_sse42 vs. __strcpy_sse2 or what not
<pitti> which broke above assumption
<seb128> yeah, gotcha
<pitti> now that we filter them out, we'll break it even harder, until we get crash duplicates with the cleaned up signatures
<seb128> <pitti> - leave the assertions and dupe the bugs manually
<pitti> so we could say "if either teh address or the symbolic signature matches, dupe it"
<seb128> I would try that for a while and see how it goes and review the buggy cases
<pitti> seb128: ok, that was my proposal
<seb128> right, I agree with you then ;-)
<pitti> and once we get sufficiently convinced that it DTRT, we'll switch over to automatic duping
<seb128> sounds good
<pitti> this is still in a kind of test drive where I added several asserts that the logic is correct, to avoid false dupes
<pitti> seb128: ok, so you have been warned :)
<seb128> thanks a lot for the explanations ;-)
<pitti> seb128: whenever we get such a crash, we should verify that the retraced and master IDs are really dupes, and dupe them manually, then restart
<seb128> ok
<seb128> will dupping manually "resolve" the issue?
<pitti> for that particular bug, yes
<pitti> oh, hang on
<seb128> i.e the retracer will know that it matches the signature of the "new" bug which is a duplicate of the old one?
<pitti> we also need to kill the "wrong" symbolic signatures from the dupe db
<pitti> otherwise we'll keep the wrong ones around forever
<seb128> can you made a small utility which replace a signature by the one from another bug?
<seb128> like "replace-sig bug1 bug2"
<seb128> so we can run that when we hit those buggy cases?
<pitti> let me think about this for a bit first
<seb128> ok
<pitti> we already know which bugs now will have "wrong" sigs
<seb128> those which have the symbols you started filtering out?
<pitti> let me think about/check what happens if we just remove them
<pitti> seb128: right
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: I'm creating fake lock files while I'm working on this, FYI
<pitti> (i. e. stop the retracers)
<seb128> pitti, noted
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'll just wipe the existing wrong ones from the DB; they'll just get recreated if there's already a matching address sig
<seb128> great
<pitti> $ cp apport_duplicates.db apport_duplicates.db.__sse_sigs
<tjaalton> slomo: is there a plan to get gstreamer-vaapi packaged at some point?
<slomo> tjaalton: sure, when someone with time and hardware that supports it does it ;)
<tjaalton> slomo: i see the long-term plan is to integrate it with -plugins-bad, but an interim solution would be a separate package until it's merged
<tjaalton> or?
<tjaalton> i have the hw, might package it then
<seb128> chrisccoulson, there?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah
<slomo> tjaalton: yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can you help on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/903973 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 903973 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with signal 5 in _XReply()" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, just giving hints on how to debug those
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would it help if we disable the libxklavier handler during the unstable cycle for a bit to get the real stacktraces from g-s-d?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, rather than getting stuff libxlavier is catching?
<tjaalton> slomo: ok, I might spend some cycles on it then
<pitti> seb128: retracers back on, let the fun begin :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it probably wouldn't help in this case, as the call which actually generates the error is the one which is on the stack
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how do you see if libxklavier "hijacked" the call or not? I don't remember what you told me by then about libxklavier and how it was "misleading" the stacktraces
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the error handler used by libxklavier exists to swallow some errors that occur normally, so if you disable that then they will just be caught by the GDK handler instead (which will abort)
<chrisccoulson> in this case though, the call which generates the error is the one which is in the trace (XGetWindowAttributes)
<chrisccoulson> called by xklavier :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure to understand why we had issues with libxklavier then, if it just "traps" error it should have stopped issues, not leaded to confusing stacktraces?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well anyway this one seems a g-s-d keyboard bug then? would you be interested to have a look to it or should I just assign it to the team?
<chrisccoulson> i'll have a quick look to see if i can figure out what's going on
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<chrisccoulson> ok, XGetWindowAttributes throws a BadMatch error if the specified window isn't actually a window
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you read the source to see that? ;-)
<seb128> the manpage states "       XGetWindowAttributes can generate BadDrawable and BadWindow errors."
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah
<chrisccoulson> dixLookupWindow returns that error it finds some resource using the specified ID, but it isn't a window
<chrisccoulson> those manpages often don't reflect reality ;)
<seb128> I see ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: FYI an attempt to bring the discussion with upstream about accountsservice's role for language/locale settings forward:
<GunnarHj> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/42857#c4
<GunnarHj> (pitti and rodrigo_ are on the CC list)
<seb128> GunnarHj, hi, great
<GunnarHj> seb128: That's basically all that I can come up with, I think. Not sure how to proceed.
<seb128> wait for a reply from mathias?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, that's the obvious first step, of course. :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, deferred bug 903973 to RAOF ;)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 903973 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with signal 5 in _XReply()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903973
<seb128> chrisccoulson, way to go! ;-)
<seb128> it's always the xorg guys fault at the end!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<didrocks> well, they display, it's their fault :)
<chrisccoulson> it seems that i've investigated pretty much the exact same problem at some point in the past
<seb128> didrocks, exactly!
<chrisccoulson> seeing as i reported https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23562 ;)
<ubot2`> Freedesktop bug 23562 in Protocol/Core "GetProperty can return BadMatch error under certain conditions" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I've done "also affect xorg-server" and assigned that one to RAOF
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> yw ;-)
<seb128> thank you for looking at it
<seb128> g-s-d didn't change in precise and the bug started there
<seb128> so it might be a new issue somewhere in the xorg stack
<nessita> hello everyone!
<seb128> hey nessita!
<chrisccoulson> xorg didn't change either, the actual bug has been there all along. however, i suspect that something else on the desktop has changed which just exposes the race now
<seb128> could be yes
<chrisccoulson> something creating and destroying a window very quickly ;)
<nessita> hi seb128!
<seb128> nessita, show are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is there any way to find that something? and what is g-s-d tracking,why?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, gsd is tracking all windows for the keyboard-layout-per-window stuff
<nessita> seb128: great, thanks. You?
<chrisccoulson> (ie, xklavier adds some properties to each top-level window)
<seb128> only when that option is activated?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not too sure about that. possibly
<seb128> ok, that might explain why some people see it and others not
<seb128> I will try to activate it just to see if I get the bug
<seb128> nessita, I'm great thanks!
<seb128> nessita, I had a cold but it's mostly over ;-)
<chrisccoulson> slangasek, do you use more than one keyboard layout? (re, bug 903973)
<seb128> nessita, do you come to budapest next week?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 903973 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with signal 5 in _XReply()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903973
<nessita> seb128: oh, I envy your weather, I guess you have a cold because *is* cold there. We're suffering the heat a lot here. And sadly no, not going to budapest, not this time. I will miss you, though :-/
<seb128> nessita, :-( I wil miss you as well
<seb128> well it's not real cold this year, we have a weird weather
<seb128> cold and dry is good, we have a not-so-cold and rainy weather
<chrisccoulson> same here ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's just dull and wet here
<nessita> ugh
<chrisccoulson> same as the rest of the year ;)
<seb128> lol
<nessita> heh
<seb128> seems about right for birmingham :p
<nessita> so, if anyone feels like it, I could use a sponsorship for https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/precise/ubuntuone-control-panel/ubuntuone-control-panel-2.99.1/+merge/87406? I checked the patch pilot calendar and is kinda empty for today, but there is no rush :-)
<seb128> nessita, doing it
<seb128> nessita, I guess it's empty because dholbach usually fills it but he's not back from holidays yet I think
<nessita> seb128: thanks! (link has an extra ? at the end)
<nessita> ah, daniel, daniel :-P
<seb128> nessita, launchpad seems smart enough to not break on the trailing "?" ;-)
<seb128> nessita, uploaded
<nessita> seb128: awesome, thanks!
<seb128> nessita, yw
<nessita> you rock
<nessita> :-)
<seb128> nessita, you as well ;-)
<seb128> pitti, bug #911734, is that an apport bug?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911734 in gnome-keyring "package libgcr-3-common 3.2.2-1ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gcr-3/ui/gcr-import-dialog.ui', which is also in package libgcr-3-1 3.2.2-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911734
<pitti> hm, I thought I fixed that
<seb128> pitti, you fixed the gnome-keyring bug
<seb128> but "Package: libgcr-3-common 3.2.2-1ubuntu2"
<seb128> though " Unpacking libgcr-3-common (from .../libgcr-3-common_3.2.2-1ubuntu1_all.deb) ..."
<seb128>  
<seb128> pitti, i.e it picks the newest version and wrongly assume it's a regression
<seb128> but the log shows it's 1ubuntu1 which hit the bug
<seb128> not sure what get the version wrong
<pitti> hmm
<seb128> i.e that "the version changed between the time the bug got collected and reported"?
<pitti> seb128: that's one plausible explanation
<seb128> pitti, I can dup it manually but it seems a buggy retracer case, do you want it reassigned to apport or something?
<pitti> I'm not 100% sure which information the apt hook already adds
<pitti> seb128: all information is in the bug, so please go ahead and dup, yes
<pitti> seb128: right, or we just reassign it to apport, that's even better
<seb128> doing that, it's easier that to open a new bug
<seb128> and it has the infos needed from a buggy cases
<seb128> pitti, done and title updated, bug #911734
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911734 in apport "installation issues report sometimes the wrong package version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911734
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, hope you are fighting your cold successfully.
<pitti> hey GunnarHj, happy new year!
<GunnarHj> pitti: Happy new year to you as well.
<GunnarHj> pitti: Do you possibly have time to take a shot at the a-s MP (bug 866062) and the related l-s MP? I can be available here for instant clarifications...
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 866062 in accountsservice "SetLanguage(): Write ~/.pam_environment instead of ~/.profile" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/866062
<pitti> GunnarHj: I saw your post to the upstream bug
<GunnarHj> pitti: Yeah, that's the forwarding aspect of it. But I really think that we should get the MPs into the archive before that discussion is completed.
<pitti> it's really tricky to review, as it contains several things in one huge MP: the new API, the migration, the (still TBD) changed meaning of LANG, and the .bashrc -> .pam_environment bits
<pitti> doing just the latter should be rather simple really, and everything else shoudl really be done upstream
<pitti> this is now so utterly complex and error prone that it'll get harder and harder to do even more migrations in the future if upstream does something different or sticks to the current approach
<GunnarHj> pitti: Well, I realize that it may appear complex at first sight, but there is a rather clear logic if you take a closer look.
<GunnarHj> pitti: I did try to adjust the code in accordance with your first review.
<pitti> GunnarHj: it's still on my list, but again, this is not something that I can review in an hour or so
<pitti> and I'd like to pick it apart into above four parts, so that it's easier to review and understand
<GunnarHj> pitti: I can try to split it into more revisions. But please note that the migration part covers both ~/.profile -> ~/.pam_environment and the changed LANG (format -> language) ...
<pitti> well, "mentally split" is fine, too
<GunnarHj> pitti: What do you mean by that? Expanding the comments?
<pitti> but anyway, this requires pretty much a full day of review; in December I was on a different team, and now I have some catching up to do, that's why it took so long, sorry
<pitti> GunnarHj: no, I mean it'll take some time to understand the current behaviour, the new one, reviewing the huge changeset, finding error cases, etc.
<pitti> and it's again pretty spaghetti-ish
<pitti> C code, shell code, more shell scripts, zenity, the $(ls /tmp/) ... rm loop (which might have a security problem), and so on
<pitti> and I'm not convinced that we should land the LANG changes now
<pitti> it's a rather large change which also impacts KDE, XFCE, etc., multiple window managers, gnome, and what not
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hmm.. as regards LANG it's my impression that the way Ubuntu uses it is the 'odd' way. GNOME does it the other way for sure.
<pitti> GNOME only handles LANG ATM, it doesn't have a concept of a language/region split so far?
<pitti> meh, our g-s-d package is a mess .. 20ish patches without any patch header
<GunnarHj> pitti: I think they have: Language -> LANG via /etc/gdm/Xsession and formats -> LC_* via gsettings g-s-d
<pitti> ah, indeed
<GunnarHj> pitti: So that's one good reason to do the LANG change, considering the move to g-c-c. It also will take care of some cases of incorrect display language.
<GunnarHj> pitti: Please let me know if there is anything I can do to clarify the a-s MP. Some level of 'mental split' is hopefully in the changelog...
<pitti> GunnarHj: how do you handle existing settings in .bashrc now?
<GunnarHj> pitti: I didn't touch .bashrc. Reason: Since possible locale settings there has been made manuelly, it's reasonable to assume that the user has chose to ignore the UI and do it manually.
<pitti> GunnarHj: but previous l-s wrote its settings there
<pitti> so we need a migration path
<pitti> otherwise you could never change the language again any more
<GunnarHj> pitti: No, you mean ~/.profile, don't you?
<pitti> GunnarHj: ah, yes I do
<GunnarHj> pitti: And that's certainly taken care of.
<pitti> ah, I see the sed call there
<pitti> I think we should only do that if ~/.pam_environment doesn't exist yet
<pitti> or rather, doesn't have the locale settings
<pitti> i. e. once, not every time
<seb128> pitti, g-s-d> we have 16 patches and they are mostly trivial ones?
<GunnarHj> pitti: Existence of ~/.pam_environment is exactly the criteria I'm using in the MP.
<pitti> seb128: yes, but almost none of them have a description or bug link
<seb128> right...
<seb128> pitti, well most are ubuntu specific
<seb128> pitti, I will add descriptions next time I do an upload for it
<GunnarHj> pitti: So migration happens only once, which of course is essential.
<pitti> seb128: right, I was more concerned about the bug fixes; would really be nice to get them upstream, etc.
<seb128> pitti, I don't think we have any fix coming from Ubuntu not upstreamed
<GunnarHj> pitti: Possibly the latter isn't as clear as it could be, since the test for existence of ~/.pam_environment happens in the beginning of user_migration_from_profile().
<pitti> GunnarHj: *nod*, sounds fine (we don't want to run the shell script at all if it exists)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Right.
<pitti> seb128: do you happen to know how to get the g_debug() output from gnome-settings-daemon? --debug doesn't
<pitti> IIRC --debug used to work, but not any more
<seb128> pitti, it doesn't? did you try to kill g-s-d and run a new one with --no-daemon --debug?.
<pitti> yes, I killed it
<pitti> --no-daemon doesn't exist
<pitti> it does run in the foreground
<seb128> let me check
<pitti> it just doesn't output anything except warnings
<pitti> bug not the g_debug
<seb128> hum
<pitti> seb128: don't worry, I just asked in case you knew the trick by heart
<seb128> well I usually use --debug which worked for me :p
<seb128> pitti, oh, I know
<seb128> looking...
<pitti> gsd_log_default_handler() has debug==1
<pitti> so it seems g_log_default_handler eats it
<seb128> pitti, yeah, since glib 2.31 there is a G_SOMETHING to set
<seb128> I'm trying to find which one...
<BigWhale> How would I suppress delete-event on Gtk.Window? I don't want my window deleted just hidden when I click X
<seb128> pitti, try G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all
<pitti> seb128: aah, that worked; many thanks!
<seb128> pitti,  G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all g-s-d --debug
<seb128> pitti, yw
<seb128> took me a while to find it back!
<pitti> it's helpfully not mentioned in the g_debug docs
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> pitti, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=661926
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 661926 in general "Improve the default logging setup in GLib" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> pitti, it's documented in http://developer.gnome.org/glib/2.31/glib-Message-Logging.html#g-log-default-handler
<seb128> but yeah, the api for g_debug etc could have a note about it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you think you could send to GNOME your gsd login speed patches?
<seb128> seems you didn't do it?
<BigWhale> am I the only one having trouble with hide_on_delete in python? *bursts into tears*
<pitti> seb128: ah nice, I can do G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=print-notifications-plugin
<seb128> right
<seb128> that was the idea, filter on domains
<seb128> BigWhale, just put a callback on the signal and return TRUE in the handler?
<BigWhale> seb128, yeah I just figured it out
<BigWhale> I used return self.hide_on_quit()
<dobey> kenvandine: do you even have any "readiness tests" for u1?
<kenvandine> dobey, no... i would need you guys to help define that
<kenvandine> it would be something like confirming upstream tests pass, etc
<kenvandine> and some integration stuff, perhaps
<dobey> :-/
<dobey> kenvandine: so i had a sort of discussion with jason last night about this; and it seems upload privs for anyone not on platform team, for canonical packages, are basically worthless now :(
<kenvandine> :(
<dobey> so as you can guess, i am quite unhappy about that
<pitti> kenvandine: why's that?
<pitti> as long as there are AC, it doesn't matter much who runs them?
<kenvandine> pitti, it was really a question of if that person has to be on the platform team or not
<kenvandine> u1 has their own uploaders
<kenvandine> so they don't want to block on having one of us do it
<kenvandine> the whole reason they wanted upload rights
<dobey> and we have our own qa team even
<kenvandine> pitti, so u1 had assigned distro acceptance to one of their folks
<pitti> hm, can we (i. e. you) really do a better job at QA than U1's own QA?
<dobey> well, i think it just wasn't clear what was supposed to go in that column
<kenvandine> pitti, no... i can't
<kenvandine> especially now that i have probably nearly 30 packages on my plate
<dobey> pitti: so what do you think?
<pitti> dobey: I think it worked quite fine the way it was; I wouldn't change it from my POV
<kenvandine> dobey, i'll talk to jason about it
<pitti> i. e. U1 doing their own QA (lots of tests, etc.) and uploading
<kenvandine> i really think you guys are best to fill that role
<dobey> ok, thanks
<pitti> dobey: ^ that is, we sohuld of course help you with packaging, and other process-y bits (MIRs, and what not)
<pitti> but I don't see that kenvandine now handling all uploads and AC checks would improve anything
<dobey> pitti: yes, there are obviously certain cases where we will have to bug DMB/platform/whatever
<pitti> yes, absolutely
<dobey> but i want to minimize that as much as possible
<kenvandine> dobey, of course we are here to help :)
<dobey> to let you guys concentrate on the other 3000 packages in ubuntu :)
<seb128> speaking of which, do you plan to upload your fix for the libsyncdaemon segfault? ;-)
<dobey> seb128: yes; which is why i stayed around late last night to bug jason :)
<seb128> great ;-)
<kenvandine> dobey, lets get that uploaded!
<dobey> kenvandine: yep, am about to
<kenvandine> awesome
<dobey> just have to edit debian/changelog and upload
<kenvandine> did you propose a merge?
<dobey> no
<kenvandine> ok
<dobey> i did bzr merge-upstream last night, then bugged jason, then gtfo the computer :)
 * kenvandine just discovered the GI_TYPELIB_PATH env variable, that was way to hard to find
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, I could have told you
<kenvandine> pitti, yeah... i looked for you to ask last night :)
<kenvandine> pitti, i've added python unit tests to gwibber now using GI
<kenvandine> so we have test parity for vala/c and python GI
<kenvandine> we'll know when the GIR breaks :)
<kenvandine> pitti, can GI_TYPELIB_PATH handle multiple paths?
<kenvandine> GI_TYPELIB_PATH=../../libgwibber:../../libgwibber-gtk
<kenvandine> like that?
<pitti> yes, it can
<kenvandine> woot!
<kenvandine> thx!
<pitti> kenvandine: note that you also might need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH accordingly to use the local .so files
<kenvandine> i did
<dobey> seb128, kenvandine: ok, as soon as pbuilder finishes happily, i'll dput the new package
<kenvandine> dobey, thx
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<GunnarHj> pitti: Did you leave a-s for today? Just wondering if I should keep standing by. (I'm happy to do so.)
<pitti> GunnarHj: probably not, sorry (working on something else, and keep getting pinged)
<pitti> I'll probably stop in an hour or two, silly cold
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok. Would it help if we scheduled a time to process it?
<pitti> TBH I'd just try to squeeze it in in the next days and answer in the MP
<pitti> I got my ubuntu box down to 4 now
<pitti> of which 2 are your MPs :)
<dobey> seb128, kenvandine: uploaded :)
<seb128> \o/
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, that sounds great. :)  Hope your cold goes away soon.
<kenvandine> :-D
<dobey> kenvandine: are you incredibly busy? i have a bunch of other packages which i have to make merge proposals for (since i don't have upload privs for them yet). but they are all trivial no-impact changes (new release only, without any source changes)
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> dobey, create merge proposals and request a review from me
<dobey> kenvandine: ok; thanks
<seb128> pitti, g-s-d> did you start on login speed? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: yes; now that I'm back to development I desperately need to start on my WIs
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> I should look at my WIs as well
<seb128> I've been dealing with desktop updates and merges mostly so far
<pitti> yeah, similar here: there's always a couple of urgent issues which get in the way
<seb128> pitti, btw you put the bar too high on bugs closing count compared to the rest of the team, you need to let people a change so they try to catch you ;-)
<pitti> hehe
<seb128> change->chance
<pitti> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/precise-fixes-report.html
<pitti> oh, nice
<dobey> yeah, i need to do my one WI
<seb128> dobey, "get a working music store back"? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: as soon as unity gets uploads again, didrocks will skyrocket to the top again anyway
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<didrocks> it's a so easy win :-)
<dobey> seb128: no, the only WI i got at UDS was to write a script to analyze some bugs filed against Ubuntu, but without a package
<didrocks> meanwhile, /me simulates oneconf server error for the test suite :)
<dobey> the music store is something i also have to do, but i don't think there are any work items for it
<seb128> pitti, is that ok if I NEW gtkspell3 directly to main? that's basically a new version of gtkspell renamed for gtk3
<pitti> seb128: sure
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> why-oh-why https://launchpadlibrarian.net/89040628/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.firefox-trunk_12.0~a1~hg20120103r83671-0ubuntu1~umd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz :-(
<chrisccoulson> hanging tests! grrrrrrr
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, those are annoying
<seb128> pitti, gnome-keyring hanged in the testsuit on i386 and amd64 yesterday that's why your breaks fixes got duplicates for a while, a retry worked though
<seb128> just for info
<pitti> seb128: right, saw from backscroll; thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, "    - Renamed gtkspell binary libgtkspell-common" do you remember why you did that?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> because of the dual build for gtk2 and gtk3
<seb128> kenvandine, hum? how is the name revelant? did you move stuff in there?
<seb128> that binary is not even installed on my box
<kenvandine> humm
<seb128> it's empty
<seb128> I guess it only has translations that got stripped at build time
<seb128> kenvandine, do you mind if I revert the name back to the old one? ;-)
<kenvandine> i seem to recall someone rejecting it from NEW because the common files ended up in gtkspell and someone said the binary would be better named libgtkspell-common
<kenvandine> something like that
<kenvandine> hold on, let me look at it and try to refresh my memory
<seb128> kenvandine, Debian packaged upstream vcs as gtkspell3
<seb128> kenvandine, which I just synced
<seb128> kenvandine, so gtkspell goes back to be mono build of gtk2, I basically want to revert to what it was before your changes
<seb128> kenvandine, sounds good?
<seb128> kenvandine, then we just need to make libgwibber build with the new lib
<seb128> kenvandine, I can look at that if you want
<kenvandine> oh cool
<kenvandine> did upstream release the gtk3 version?
<kenvandine> they merged my patch, but tweaked it to make two separate upstream sources
<kenvandine> which seemed silly to me
<kenvandine> but last i checked they had a dev snapshot and no release
<seb128> kenvandine, they didn't release, debian did a vcs snapshot
<seb128> but that works as well
<kenvandine> then revert what i did
<kenvandine> that is fine
<kenvandine> i'll make gwibber work with it
<seb128> kenvandine, do you want me to look at rebuilding libgwibber with the new lib?
<kenvandine> nah
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> i'll do that
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> just get it uploaded and then i'll make it build
<kenvandine> i looked at what upstream did there already, it'll be trivial
<seb128> kenvandine, the lib is named libgtkspell-3-0, yours was libgtkspell3-0
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> and they renamed the .pc file
<Sweetshark> pitti: so, I have a basic 3.5.0beta2 package which is still very much incomplete wrt ubuntu patches, but does compile and test on amd64. Id love to release that one to the ppa for oneiric to get some early testing, but I guess it will still break on some platforms like ppc/armel. any hint on how to proceed.
<Sweetshark> ?
<slangasek> chrisccoulson: 903973> I don't *usually* use more than one keyboard layout, but may have had one configured at the time
<seb128> slangasek, the question is: run gnome-control-center, click on layout, what option is selected on the right?
<slangasek> seb128: currently, I only have one layout enabled; English (Dvorak alternative international)
<slangasek> oh, you said on the right
<seb128> yes ;-)
<slangasek> "Use the same layout for all windows"?
<seb128> ok
<slangasek> but - I was playing with my keyboard layout in that timeframe
<seb128> so not the "by win" one
<slangasek> no
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> that was the question ;-)
<slangasek> but that could have been selected briefly at the time
<seb128> we were trying to figure if that could be due to that option
<seb128> I will turn it on and see if it starts bugging here
<seb128> ups
<pitti> Sweetshark: PPAs don't build ppc/armel anyway, so that seems fine?
<ogra_> pitti, Sweetshark, the canonical-arm-dev PPA has armel enabled, i can get one of you access in case you want to testbuild for arm at some point
<pitti> we can also test-build on the porter machines
<ogra_> ah, indeed
<pitti> good night everyone! need to rest a bit, silly cold
<seb128> 'night pitti
<dobey> ugh
<dobey> kenvandine: looks like https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/precise/ubuntuone-dev-tools/release-2-99-0/+merge/86756 never got uploaded :(
<dobey> kenvandine: should i get you to do that one, or stick my new release in that same branch?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> just stick another new release and we'll do one upload
<dobey> ok
<didrocks> Ran 46 tests in 474.079s
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> didrocks, well done! ;-)
<didrocks> ok, I think that all OneConf tests are ok for now. Just 2 bugs to fix (and add tests) and I'll be ok at the rally :)
<seb128> great ;-)
<seb128> keep something to do for the trip! :p
<didrocks> well, I still have a LWN backlog :)
<didrocks> but I needed some quiet time to be effective on the remaining ones, and at home was a great opportunity to finish this up :)
<seiflotfy> didrocks: any idea how i can fix
<seiflotfy> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.la: No such file or directory
<seiflotfy> libtool: link: `/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.la' is not a valid libtool archive
<didrocks> seiflotfy: you probably have some .la file in /usr/lib/ and /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/. You should look at which and remove them
<seiflotfy> yeah but i have a lot of those
<seiflotfy> which one is it i have to find
<seiflotfy> didrocks: ?
<didrocks> seiflotfy: the one which have libpangocairo-1.0 in them
<seiflotfy> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.so
<seiflotfy> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0
<seiflotfy> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.a
<seiflotfy> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0.2905.0
<seiflotfy> ?
<seiflotfy> those?
<seiflotfy> i have no .la files
<seiflotfy> which package provies them
<seiflotfy> ok seems i have libpango installed
<seiflotfy> but no packages for it
<seiflotfy> as in the package is installed but no files from it
<seb128> ?
<seb128> seiflotfy, grep libpangocairo-1.0.la *.la
<seb128> seiflotfy, in /usr/lib and /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
<seb128> and delete the ones listing it
<seiflotfy> seb128: 100% there is nothign
<seiflotfy> grep libpangocairo-1.0.la *.la /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/
<seiflotfy> ?
<seb128> grep libpangocairo-1.0.la /usr/lib/*.la /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/*.la
<seiflotfy> seif@Wumbo:~$ grep libpangocairo-1.0.la /usr/lib/*.la /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/*.la
<seiflotfy> seif@Wumbo:~$
<seiflotfy> seb128: i told you nothing
<seb128> grep libpangocairo-1.0.la /usr/local -r
<seb128> seiflotfy, well it's likely coming from a local install
<seb128> check your /usr/local or /opt or jhbuild dir or whatever you use
<seb128> you have a .la somewhere on the disk listing libpangocairo-1.0.la
<seb128> 99% of the time it's a local install, i.e /usr/local or /opt, people who use make install
<seiflotfy> seb128: ok
<seiflotfy> seb128: found a lot though
<seb128> seiflotfy, just rm *.la
<seb128> they are not useful on linux, we are getting ride of them
<seiflotfy> on ubuntu or overall linux
<seb128> debian and ubuntu
<seb128> but fedora doesn't install those for a long time I think
<seb128> dunno about other distros
<dobey> some are (or at least, used to be) useful
<dobey> but maybe glade/gtkbuilder is better about that now
<seb128> dobey, why would glade or gtkbuilder need those?
<seiflotfy> seb128: i am freaking out sorry
<seiflotfy> but
<seiflotfy> i removed the .la files in my local installs
<seiflotfy> yet
<seiflotfy> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.la: No such file or directory
<seiflotfy> libtool: link: `/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpangocairo-1.0.la' is not a valid libtool archive
<seb128> seiflotfy, find / . -name *.la
<seb128> you probably forgot somes somewhere
<dobey> seb128: glade and gtkbuilder themselves don't really; but back in the day we had problems with evolution, evolution-exchange, and other plugins, where we needed the .la files to pull the -rpath from automatically when building, so that "custom widgets" in glade stuff would work correctly
<seb128> dobey, ok, dunno if that's still an issue or not but I bet seiflotfy doesn't need .la for what he tries to build ;-)
<dobey> he probably doesn't
<dobey> i was just providing counterpoint for the "not useful on linux" argument, which isn't entirely true
<dobey> they do make linking slower, but to say they are entirely useless is a bit of an overstatement :)
<seb128> well they mostly are, and I think they are not compatible with multiarch
<seb128> which is why we are getting ride of them ;-)
<seiflotfy> seb128: so i can remove ALL .la files from /usr/lib?
<seb128> yes, but that will not help since you grepped those and they don't refer to libpangocairo
<dobey> yeah, the multiarch thing does introduce new problems :)
<seb128> you need to find which .la list it
<dobey> speaking of multiarch
<dobey> is there anything special i need to do for our u1 stuff, to make it multiarch?
<dobey> the python stuff is fine obviously, but libs and such not so much i guess
<seb128> dobey, http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Implementation
<didrocks> time for sport here, have a good evening everyone!
<seb128> didrocks, 'night
<seiflotfy> seb128: what do i do once done?
<seb128> seiflotfy, ?
<seb128> just find the .la listing libpangocairo and delete it
<seiflotfy> i removed all .la files
<seb128> then run make again
<didrocks> seb128: thanks, you too!
<seiflotfy> seb128: does this look right http://imgur.com/W8YbN
<seiflotfy> because i have it installed but its not listing any installed packages
<seb128> ?
<seb128> that seems a bug
<seb128> try to run "dpkg -L libpango1.0-0"
<seb128> on a command line
<seb128> btw the version you are using is not an official Ubuntu one, dunno where you got it
<seiflotfy> seb128: http://pastebin.com/KWMwdtbQ
<seb128> seiflotfy, that's the content of the package
<seb128> seems normal
<seb128> what are you looking for?
<seiflotfy> i am now trying to build clutter-gtk
<seiflotfy> /home/seif/Projects/dawati/source/clutter-gtk/examples/gtk-clutter-viewport.c:41: undefined reference to `g_thread_init'
<seiflotfy> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<seiflotfy> make[2]: *** [gtk-clutter-viewport] Error 1
<seb128> ok, better
<seiflotfy> seb128: what seems to be the problem here though?
<seb128> seiflotfy, drop G_DISABLE_DEPRECATED from your build flag
<seb128> or fix clutter-gtk to not use deprecated apis
<ricotz> seiflotfy, what clutter-gtk version is this?
<seiflotfy> ricotz: trunk i guess
<seiflotfy> sorry
<seiflotfy> 0.12
<ricotz> seiflotfy, i see, 1.1.2 doesnt have a problem
<ricotz> 0.12?
<seiflotfy> * clutter-gtk-0.12
<seiflotfy> ricotz: ^
<ricotz> oh, this looks pretty old then
<ricotz> seiflotfy, check if you are really on the master branch
<seiflotfy> i am building it for dawati
<dobey> kenvandine: updated https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/precise/ubuntuone-dev-tools/release-2-99-0/+merge/86756 though, not entirely sure if i did the changelog right
<ricotz> seiflotfy, sorry, i dont know dawati, but the clutter-gtk source seems pretty outdated then
<ricotz> seb128, hi, do you mind sponsoring clutter-gtk 1.1.2?
<seb128> ricotz, hey, I can do taht
<seb128> where is it?
<seb128> mterry, \o/
<mterry> seb128, what's up?
<seb128> mterry, I had bug #904140 on my todolist for today, I can drop it thanks to you ;-)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 904140 in evince "evince crashed with SIGSEGV in child_setup()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904140
<mterry> seb128, heh  :)  yw
<ricotz> seb128, one se
<ricotz> c
<ricotz> seb128, https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/testing/+build/2985843
<seb128> ricotz, thanks
<ricotz> seb128, i will create a new source package
<seb128> ricotz, why?
<seb128> or for what?
<seb128> is that still a clutter-gtk topic or did you change topic? ;-)
<ricotz> for a proper version
<ricotz> seb128, or you can grab it and repack it
<seb128> ricotz, oh, I can download that and strip the ~... from the changelog
<ricotz> seb128, ok
<seb128> ricotz, I need to run debuild to build the .changes anyway
<seb128> that's not on the ppa
<ricotz> seb128, i would have done that too ;)
<ricotz> seb128, sorry, i totally missed the fact the cogl/clutter isnt 1.9.2 :\
<seb128> ricotz, lol, I was going to ask
<seb128> should we update those?
<seb128> you recommended to not do it yet before the holidays
<ricotz> seb128, :\, i was hoping to see some 1.9.4 tarballs
<kenvandine> dobey, i'll take care of it
<dobey> kenvandine: great, thanks; i've also got the other packages proposed with you as reviewer now
<kenvandine> ok, i should get to them soonish :)
<dobey> cool. mostly not a huge rush, since there's no changes aside from version bumps. but since ubuntuone-dev-tools didn't get uploaded for the last release, it's a higher priority than the rest so please do it first :)
<micahg> cyphermox: that evo change looks risky unless the only nss lib that evo uses are in the subdir
<cyphermox> micahg: I checked
 * micahg wonders if there's a more proper way to access the cert store than evo is doing
<dobey> micahg: would be nice if everything just used the keyring for that
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, beer-o-clock
<BigWhale> The lack of code examples, tutorials and sometimes utterly useless help on stackoverflow is somewhat frustrating time to time ... I wish Canonical could put some effort into this.
<dobey> BigWhale: on stackoverflow, or askubuntu?
<BigWhale> first
<BigWhale> dobey, I didn't find anything on askubuntu
<dobey> what sort of questions? and why should canonical spend time going through it to provide such aexamples and tutorials?
<dobey> BigWhale: i don't even know hwat you're looking for. but i don't think either of those is probably the right place to have documentation. docs belong in a more organized place
<BigWhale> dobey, Well I think it would be great if Canonical could put some effort into basic guidelines, tutorials, documentation and code examples for developers.
<dobey> i think we are
<BigWhale> or perhaps just organize things a little
<BigWhale> My "rant" is more on a global scale ... Not targeted at anyone in particular. I think it would be great to have sort of one-stop place for all the developers
<BigWhale> I am displeased with documentation in general with open source ... :>
<dobey> like http://developer.ubuntu.com/ ?
<BigWhale> ok... wow...
<BigWhale> *cue in the awkward moment music*
<BigWhale> but! :)
<BigWhale> this site didn't come up on any searches in google... :/
<dobey> BigWhale: it's the 3rd result for me for "ubuntu developer documentation"
<dobey> and i imagine the first two results might have links to it as well
<BigWhale> my searches were a bit specific
<dobey> example?
<dobey> searching for things about specific libraries/languages/etc may very well not get you there
<BigWhale> I think that developer.ubuntu.com is quite awesome. Now that I clicked on it a little.
<BigWhale> Too bad I didn't notice it sooner.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, "beer-o-clock"  ... training for next week? ;-)
<BigWhale> dobey, well I was (still am, to be precise) looking for simple working example on how to use cairo to draw in gtk3 windows.
<BigWhale> and how to make a gtk3 window transparent :)
<dobey> in vala? python? c?
<BigWhale> python preferably
<dobey> BigWhale: for the transparency, window.set_opacity()
<dobey> BigWhale: for cairo, are you trying to draw on a GtkWindow, or on some other widget?
<BigWhale> dobey, don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to criticize or rant, I was merely 'thinking out loud' how nice it would be to have all the developer stuff in one place.
<BigWhale> I am happy as a lamb to see developer.ubuntu.com
<dobey> well, for ubuntu, i think developer.ubuntu.com is supposed to be that place
<BigWhale> set_opacity? now you're just mocking me... :>
<dobey> i don't know how extensive the docs are there, though
<dobey> for vala, i mostly just use valadoc.org as a reference
<BigWhale> set+opacity actually works ...
<BigWhale> excuse me ... I'll go and hide now.
<dobey> well, it should work, unless you're under a wm that isn't doing compositing
<BigWhale> now I just need to figure out on how to make a window transparent and some text in it, not so transparent. :)
<BigWhale> I'll just stack couple of windows on top of each other or something like that ..
<dobey> but i've been dooing gtk/gnome hacking for like 15 years, so i guess i just expect there to not be docs and know how to go about finding stuff i need more easily :)
<dobey> i'm not sure what you're trying to do exactly, but athat sounds like it will probably be a bit more work to do :)
<BigWhale> dobey, I want a countdown in 'splash screen' that is a transparent
<BigWhale> and for cairo, I was trying to draw on GtkWindow yes
<BigWhale> and I got to the point where I connected draw signal
<dobey> i think set_opacity() sets a wm hint on the window, which makes the wm apply transparency
<BigWhale> but nothing was actually drawn on the windows then :)
<dobey> which just does it on everything
<BigWhale> then I'll probably have to do it with cairo
<dobey> i think you need to embed a drawable in the window, and do everything on it
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm making the most of it before i give up drinking for a while :)
<dobey> BigWhale: you need a GtkDrawingArea
<BigWhale> dobey, as I understand this: http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/3.0/GtkWidget.html#GtkWidget-draw
<BigWhale> I get a cairo surface here and I can draw on it as much as I like.
<dobey> you misunderstood :)
<BigWhale> ok
<dobey> that's not something you should connect() to on a widget, and then attempt to draw on the widget in your callback
<dobey> BigWhale: in Python, you can class MyWidget(Gtk.DrawingArea): and override the draw() method though, then just embed MyWidget() in the window
<BigWhale> hmm I was looking at some gtk2 example that connected to expose-event signal and I found in some documentation that draw signal is now used instead
<dobey> yes, draw replaces expose-event, but you really should only use them internally
<dobey> they're more like virtual class methods, than signals that an app developer should connect to
<dobey> BigWhale: http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkDrawingArea.html is really waht you want to use
<dobey> BigWhale: and DrawingArea is at least sensible to connect to "draw" as you were trying to do with the window
<dobey> but for a window, it's not so sensible :)
<BigWhale> cool
<BigWhale> thanks for all the info
<BigWhale> I'll go and hack some now... :>
<kenvandine> dobey, ubuntuone-dev-tools requires python-dirspec >= 3.1
<kenvandine> but the latest uploaded is 2.99
<dobey> eh? doh
<dobey> weird
<dobey> kenvandine: ah, must have overlooked that when i copied the control file over from nightlies to do the switch to pure dh. fixed now, sorry :)
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> so it didn't really need that?
<dobey> no
<kenvandine> mterry, i just commented on that deja-dup merge proposal, the tests conflicted on merge
<kenvandine> mterry, i would have tried to clean it up myself, but your change was specific there so didn't want to do the wrong thing
<mterry> kenvandine, ah, I'll clean and re-comment.  I forgot I updated that test code after
<TheMuso> Grrrr I hate havving to use the NVIDIA drivers. NVIDIA really needs to be clubbed with a cluestick so they use XRandr.
<TheMuso> nvidia-settings is a poor child's substitute.
<TheMuso> Especially since one can only save the monitor config to an xorg.conf file...
<TheMuso> At least afaik.
<broder> i am still firmly of the belief that the NVControl extension *could* be shoehorned into GnomeRR
<TheMuso> But... but... THere is XRandr. All other drivers use it. :)
<dobey> "My enemy's enemy is my friend."
<TheMuso> I was using Nouveau, and that worked, but afaik it doesn't have deacent PM yet, and Unity was running a little sluggish with my 24" monitor connected.
<TheMuso> Oh yeah, and I am displeased with Lenovo for connecting the VGA port, and the monitor ports on the docking station via the NVIDIA GPU only.
<broder> ugh, that sucks. the vga port on my lenovo and its docking station do work with the intel card
<TheMuso> I could use the DisplayPort on the machine itself, if 1) I wasn't using a docking statino, and 2) I was using the monitor directly, and not via a KVM.
<dobey> my laptops mostly all have intel only anyway
<dobey> only ones i've ever had, that didn't, had ati cards
<TheMuso> Right, well thats the problem with getting a 15" notebook I guess, hybrid GPUs are now the norm.
<dobey> but old powerbook g3, ibook that doesn't turn on, and my really old thinkpad x31 aren't really usable machines to work on any more
<dobey> i think the problem is more that nvidia is more the norm these days
<TheMuso> Yeah that too.
<TheMuso> At least Lenovo lets me choose which GPU to use in the BIOS, i.e I can turn off hybrid mode/NVIDIA Optimus.
<dobey> i try really hard to avoid buying laptops larger than 8" though
<TheMuso> To each their own.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-05
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, thanks for looking at bug 903973 :)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 903973 in xorg-server "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with signal 5 in _XReply()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903973
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: I'm a bit surprised that Peter didn't apply your patch as written; *everything* that calls dixLookupWindow seems to be broken.
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, yeah, i did wonder that at the time, but never thought to argue about it :)
<chrisccoulson> and then i'd forgotten about the whole issue until seb asked me to look at this bug today
<RAOF> :)
 * RAOF builds his patched server
<RAOF> It's non-trivial to reproduce that problem, isn't it.
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, yeah, i can't reproduce it here on my machine. when we had similar issues before, it was always at session start
<RAOF> Yeah.  I won't bother whipping up testing packages; I'll just submit the patches to the list.
<chrisccoulson> but i'd imagine that the trigger is rapidly creating and destroying a window, and then creating a pixmap straight afterwards
<chrisccoulson> with multiple keyboard layouts enabled
<RAOF> Yeah, such as might occur during startup.
<chrisccoulson> yep :)
<RAOF> Technically it could happen at pretty much any time; yay for asynchonous protocol!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<cyphermox> yo.
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: poke
<robert_ancell> smspillaz, hey
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: hi
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: I think you forgot to check in a file to xig
<smspillaz> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `hello.c', needed by `hello-hello.o'. Stop.
<robert_ancell> hello hello!
<smspillaz> :)
<smspillaz> sorry about the immcounicado for a while, got pulled off into another direction with the google test stuff. but I have a standalone window manager module thats mostly working now
<smspillaz> so I'm going to start adding xig tests for it
<robert_ancell> nice
<smspillaz> but ... first I need to be able to compile the thing ;-)
<robert_ancell> smspillaz, pushed
<robert_ancell> pushing..
<smspillaz> :)
<robert_ancell> now pushed
<smspillaz> thanks, all works now
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: was xig-version.h removed ?
<smspillaz> hmm, perhaps its not installed
<smspillaz> hang on
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: yeah, you need to add xig/xig-version.h to libxig_0include_HEADERS in xig/src/Makefile.am
<robert_ancell> whoops
<smspillaz> I can propose a branch if you want
<robert_ancell> smspillaz, just pushed a fix
<smspillaz> ok
<robert_ancell> thanks
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: also, I guess xig_remove_client_set_log_messages has changed ?
<smspillaz> err
<smspillaz> *remote client
<robert_ancell> smspillaz, yes, there are signals for the messages, and you connect up the logger class if you want to log them
<smspillaz> ok
 * smspillaz adjusts test-runner.c for that then
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: hmm. has some stuff changed recently in xig? I seem to be getting libX11 assertion failures about the loss of event sequencing
<smspillaz> I can have a look into whats going on if you want
<robert_ancell> smspillaz, nothing should have changed drastically - can you send me a test case?
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: run compiz on it :)
<smspillaz> I can see if there's a particular thing that's triggering the bug though .. I'll run with XSynchronize
<cyphermox> oh, bluez, how I love you...
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: hmm, well, it seems to get a SIGPIPE every time it tries to send a PropertyNotify
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: maybe I can bisect to see what was causing the problem? I don't know the xig code that well
<robert_ancell> smspillaz, worth trying - does it definitely work with the older version?
<smspillaz> there were problems with the older version too, but I'm not sure if they were the same ones really
<smspillaz> robert_ancell: hmm, it seems like a commit that broke the build was introduced at 136, so I can't bisect :(
<robert_ancell> ugh
<pitti> Good morning
<bryceh_> pitti, feeling better yet?
<pitti> slightly, thanks
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti, didrocks.
<pitti> hey TheMuso, happy new year! how are you?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> good morning TheMuso, happy new year!
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti. Are you feeling better today?
<pitti> didrocks: quite a bit better, thanks
<TheMuso> pitti: Well thanks, not sure if I feel frefreshed or not after my break, probably because I have to travel barely 4 days after I get back from my break. :)
<rickspencer3> good morning pitti, didrocks
<rickspencer3> good evening TheMuso
<pitti> bonjour rickspencer3, ca va?
<rickspencer3> Ã§a va bien, et toi
<rickspencer3> ?
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
<TheMuso> Anyway, bbl.
<pitti> rickspencer3: Je suis encore froid, mais c'est mieux
<rickspencer3> pitti, ah tu est enhrume encore? je comprendre
<rickspencer3> je suis content que tu vas mauvais
<pitti> rickspencer3: ^ at this point both google translate and me give up :)
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> pitti, you were quite comprensible
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> maybe in the future we should organize sprints with 2 sites, one in Australia and one in NA/Europe so people like TheMuso and robert_ancel and RAOF, etc... don't get quite so hard in the teeth
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: I don't want special treatment, but I am not a fan of traveling, the flying in particular. I enjoy the events/getting together with everyone during the week, but its the travel itself that gets me down.
<TheMuso> But, thats part of the job.
<TheMuso> Really afk now.
<pitti> TheMuso: good night!
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: ahem
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: 30 hours wooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: I think its quite awesome that we get to travel so much
<didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3 :)
<smspillaz> hey didrocks
<didrocks> 08:20:07 rickspencer3 | je suis content que tu vas mauvais
<didrocks> pitti: I won't like that if I were you :)
<didrocks> hey smspillaz
<pitti> didrocks: sounds like "I'm happy that you are wrong" or so?
<didrocks> exactly :)
<pitti> if "content" is the same as in English
<pitti> ah, rickspencer3 meant froid -> enrhume ?
<didrocks> (it's "j'ai pris froid", but understandable)
<didrocks> you "take" the cold (for no good reason ;))
<pitti> je ne parlez pas francais!
<pitti> Deutsch ist viel einfacher
<pitti> anyway, off to killing more useless stuff during boot; next up: notify-osd
<didrocks> well, you really don't want to challenge the German that I have :)
<Sweetshark> good morning everyone!
<Sweetshark> pitti: apropos deutsch http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Introducing-Grande-Latte-td3632391.html
<pitti> :)
<pitti> hey Sweetshark, guten Morgen
<rickspencer3> hey pitti I'm not surprised that my terrible French broke Google Translate for you, sorry ;)
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you? getting over the cold?
<pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks! still congested nose and some coughing, but feeling a lot better
 * pitti is this --><-- close to killing notify-osd at boot :)
<pitti> meh, lots of packages failing to build now due to deprecated GTK stuff (VBox and the like)
<pitti> (nautilus)
<pitti> for indicator-sound I reported a bug upstream and build without -Werror
<pitti> pondering to do the same for nautilus
<seb128> released versions shouldn't use G*_DISABLE_DEPRECATED or Werror
<seb128> or we keep running into such issues :-(
<pitti> it's the nautilus that's in bzr, i. e. in current precise
<pitti> upstream trunk actually builds fine ;)
<seb128> right, I exepect they updated the new serie for the new glib and gtk
<seb128> pitti, we should just drop the disable deprected for precise, or at least we should disable them even if we fix the issue or we will keep playing catchup on deprecation with every gtk update
<seb128> but weird, I built nautilus yesterday here and I've the new glib and gtk installed
<pitti> hm, maybe I mislooked, hang on
<pitti> (need to change something in the backporting of the trunk patch)
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, trÃ¨s bien, et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien :)
<pitti> seb128: sorry, just read it wrongly, builds fine
<pitti> indicator-sound was real, I dropped the -Werror in our package there
<seb128> pitti, right, I had that discussion with dx before
<seb128> pitti, note that GNOME doesn't start nautilus with their session, but still a bug and something they can fix ;-)
<pitti> seb128: right; my patch is working, sending to upstream and applying in our package
<pitti> with these two, notify-osd is gone in both lightdm and the session
<seb128> great
<pitti> so, that's gsd-printer and notify-osd, next to kill: gnome-screensaver :)
<pitti> although we could win a lot more by killing this weird "compiz" process; it eats CPU for breakfast!!11!
<bryceh_> pitti, +1
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, bryceh_
<seb128> how are you?
<bryceh_> heya seb128
<chrisccoulson> woohoo, no more gconf dependency in upstream firefox builds: https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/04244dc1f498 :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. how are you?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: \o/
<bryceh_> seb128, I'm fine.  Family is a bunch of sickies though.
<didrocks> pitti: you start notify-osd only on demand then? (just curious)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: dropping gtk2 _and_ gconf? rad!
<pitti> didrocks: yes, as it's meant to be
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no gconf \o/
<didrocks> pitti: nice! :)
<pitti> didrocks: but indicator-sound and nautilus queried the server caps right at startup; I changed that to lazy init
<didrocks> ah ok ;)
<pitti> screensaver's autostart .desktop has X-GNOME-Autostart-Delay=5
<pitti> but it's started at the very beginning, presumably triggered through dbus
<seb128> right, that's likely
<pitti> it would probably be okay to start it 10 or 20 seconds into the session
<bryceh_> seb128, maybe I'm providing the ubuflu shipment this year 8-}
<seb128> bryceh_, what I was thinking!
<pitti> bryceh_: argh, you too? mine should be gone right in time for Budapest
<seb128> well I'm just out of a cold so with some luck I will not get another one
<pitti> no hugs for bryceh_ this time!
<bryceh_> pitti, no I'm well at the moment.  but both kids and wife have it.
<chrisccoulson> oh, bingo! i know why the firefox IPC tests are failing now
<pitti> seb128: if only there weren't ~ 250 different kinds of cold viruses..
<seb128> let's see if my body has built enough defences to avoid getting something else ;-)
<chrisccoulson> the child process quits with "Maximum number of clients reached"
<bryceh_> pitti, no kidding.
<seb128> pitti, yeah, people coming from around the world doesn't help :-(
<chrisccoulson> now i need to figure out what's stealing all my X connections!
<pitti> with 2 colds a year it takes a lifetime to get immune against the more common half
<bryceh_> fortunately what my kids have seems to be relatively mild; they've still been bouncing off the walls when not busy coughing.
<seb128> hehe
<bryceh_> on a separate topic, my mother upgraded herself from natty to oneiric and discovered unity
<bryceh_> so today involved giving my mother some unity lessons
<seb128> still not simple enough? ;-)
<seb128> or just "how to work better with it"?
<pitti> hm, wikipedia says "more than 200 known viruses"; I thought I read a more exact number somewhere
<bryceh_> seb128, half and half.
<seb128> pitti, too many to be well covered in any case :-(
<seb128> bryceh_, was the experience mostly positive? what did she like,dislike?
<bryceh_> seb128, main issue was she likes this ancient windows card game, which requires wine to run, and the gnome-panel icon I'd made for her didn't survive the upgrade
<bryceh_> so got to learn how to make custom launchers :-)
<seb128> that should be fixed this cycle with some luck
<seb128> design recommended that we package and ship https://launchpad.net/unity-launcher-editor by default
<pitti> seb128: at least, the older we get the fewer colds we should get
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<bryceh_> seb128, she had trouble figuring out how to close programs (since the window decorations get hidden), and had trouble finding how to launch programs.  So most of the tutoring was for how to do those two things.
<bryceh_> seb128, her first computer was my Commodore 64, so to her this was just yet another UI to have to learn, I think she was neutral on it over all
<bryceh_> seb128, oh, the one regression that she definitely disliked was losing the picture slideshow screensaver.  I had her set up with pics of my kids which she adores, so she definitely misses that.
<seb128> yeah, the screensaver stuff is unfortunate
<bryceh_> but I figure it should be trivial to write a little slideshow tool to workaround that
<pitti> ok, it's g-s-d's libpower.so
<pitti> looks fixable
<chrisccoulson> pitti - libpower.so starting notify-osd?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no, gnome-screensaver
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<pitti> chrisccoulson: notify-osd is already fixed
<chrisccoulson> cool
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the power plugin could probably do with some of the notification related fixes we used to carry in gnome-power-manager
<chrisccoulson> (particularly with regards to notification priority and duration)
<chrisccoulson> i could probably fix those though
<pitti> is there something particular which works the wrong way ATM?
<pitti> I seldomly see the "low battery" stuff
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, the critical notification appears as the fallback dialog (complete with "Ok" and "Cancel" button)
<chrisccoulson> bryceh_, is there any way to find out what's using up all of my X connections in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/89118807/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.firefox-trunk_12.0~a1~hg20120103r83671-0ubuntu1~umd1~test_BUILDING.txt.gz ?
<chrisccoulson> (i'm using xvfb)
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, hmm, interesting.  There are several tools... let's see.  xrestop tells how many clients there are
<bryceh_> wmctrl -l will give you a list of windows
<chrisccoulson> bryceh_, thanks
<bryceh_> yeah I'd try those first.  beyond that not sure, but the info is there in the server for querying
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, xtrace also can be handy if you have a suspicion what specific client may be at fault
<chrisccoulson> bryceh_, yeah, i'm not sure yet. i'm just seeing "Maximum number of clients reached\n(<unknown>:22600): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :99" on the first test which requires an X connection
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, intriguing.  Well, I'd guess a particular client has a flaw that causes it to iteratively make connections until it's used them all up
<bryceh_> I think there's only like 127 or 255 permitted, it's not too difficult to exhaust them
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, a test suite which opens a connection per test and is sloppy at closing them could do it
<chrisccoulson> bryceh_, oh, does Xvfb not do any access control? :/
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, it may not, it's fairly primitive
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if something else on the builder connects to it ;)
<chrisccoulson> the problem is only reproducible on the builders
<bryceh_> another factor is the builders are running an older release
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, but I would not think anything outside the test suite could possibly want to connect to your xvfb instance
<chrisccoulson> yeah, probably. i'm just trying to think why i can't reproduce it anywhere else ;)
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, there were a few changes we put in for xorg-server (2:1.10.4-1ubuntu1), such as a dependency on xauth; possibly those changes are not present in the buildd's
<seb128> pitti, what would you think about making dh_translations use config.h before configure.ac?
<seb128> pitti, to get the gettext domain
<seb128> pitti, the issue I come from is gdk-pixbuf which uses "GETTEXT_DOMAIN="$PACKAGE"" in its configure.ac
<seb128> pitti, so domain=$PACKAGE and it calls intltool-update -d $PACKAGE
<seb128> pitti, the config.h has the correct domain
<seb128> (not sure I'm clear)
<bryceh_> chrisccoulson, actually the xauth dependency appears to be introduced in maverick.  Still, I think the buildd's are on lucid and I'm not sure whether we backported that.  If you're testing locally on a different ubuntu release than the buildd's that could explain it.
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine to me; config.h also has GETTEXT_DOMAIN? or is it called differently there?
<seb128> pitti, configure.ac use AC_DEFINE(GETTEXT_PACKAGE) often, so it does land in the config.h
<seb128> pitti, it's needed for the makefiles to be able to use -DGETTEXT_PACKAGE for the setlocale() etc
<seb128> pitti, I will open a bug and a merge request for it today
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<pitti> seb128: I wonder if we need to autostart gnome-screensaver at all -- do you know what triggers it on timeout? gnome-session or is that g-s itself?
<pitti> I now fixed g-s-d's power plugin, but that only does the screen locking when upower goes to sleep
<seb128> pitti, well upstream autostart it because they don't have the dbus service IIRC
<pitti> (but that dbus-activates)
<seb128> that's something we distro add
<pitti> oh, really? that's surprising indeed
<seb128> pitti, I think it's gnome-session or gnome-settings-daemon which triggers it
<pitti> not g-s-d
<seb128> pitti, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/commit/?id=3365eec74643773d8d5aa92901b39bdc9496e19b
<pitti> ah
<pitti> hm, it doesn't hurt, thuogh
<seb128> pitti, I think mdeslaur didn't like that
<pitti> if g-s crashes, then the .service file would at least bring it back on suspend, etc.
<seb128> so we still dbus activate it to increase the chance to not run in a "locking doesn't lock"
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> seb128: do you mind if we bump the autostart delay from 5 to 20 secs?
<seb128> pitti, well gnome-session is supposed to respawn stuff if they use X-GNOME-AutoRestart=true, that would perhaps be enough
<seb128> pitti, not at all
<seb128> go for it
<pitti> seb128: hm, I can killall gnome-screensaver here and it doesn't come back automatically
<pitti> that's how I test the g-s-d fix
<seb128> pitti, right because /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-screensaver.desktop doesn't have that line "X-GNOME-AutoRestart=true"
<seb128> which seems a bug to me
<pitti> a quick grep of g-s shows that it seems to do the timeout itself
<pitti> so we do need to start it
<pitti> seb128: well, at least it gets activated on suspend
<seb128> pitti, you should ask vuntz in case he's around
<seb128> or maybe chrisccoulson knows what is tracking the idle time to call gnome-screensaver
<seb128> but I think it's gnome-session itself
<pitti> easy enough to try
<pitti> I set it to 30 secs, kill it, and check what happens :)
<pitti> seb128: so, g-s handles the timeout itself, so it needs to be running
<pitti> seb128: ctrl+alt+l works when it's not running, so it seems g-s or g-s-d spawns it then
<pitti> seb128: but /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-screensaver.desktop doesn't seem to work right now, it never gets run
<seb128> pitti, right, g-s-d handles the keybindings
<pitti> NoDisplay=true
<pitti> ^ does that disable autostarting?
<seb128> that's ok, that means "don't list it in gnome-session-properties"
<seb128> oh
<pitti> hm, I wonder what keeps it from starting then
<seb128> OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
<seb128> you need to add Unity;
<pitti> ooh, needs UNity
<pitti> willdo
<seb128> danke ;-)
<seb128> add the "X-GNOME-AutoRestart=true" as well if you want
<seb128> that should make gnome-session respawn it
<pitti> hm, do we want this?
<seb128> it's probably not needed with the dbus service
<seb128> it will respawn it
<pitti> and if someone kills it, it might be deliberate
<pitti> working around movie players which don't inhibit it, and the like
<seb128> or it might segfault in which case you get screen locking not working in the upstream case
<seb128> but yeah, with the dbus service we don't have that issue
<seb128> so NOTUBUNTU
<pitti> screensaver-be-gone \o/
<seb128> lol
<pitti> adding "Unity" does the trick
<seb128> pitti, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/pkgbinarymangler/smallfixes/+merge/87602
<pitti> RAOF: do we really need to start colord at boot? would it be possible to add a gsettings check to only launch it if you actually configured anything?
<pitti> seb128: could you swap it around and try config.h first? and then use the if (!$domain && ... schema?
<pitti> fits better into the existing code, and avoids reading multiple files
<seb128> pitti, not really since config.h doesn't have the "use intltool" info
<pitti> ah, of course
<seb128> pitti, and ups, I've a small fix to do
<seb128> so don't merge that please
<pitti> seb128: looks fine otherwise, so please go ahead and merge yourself with a changelog
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<pitti> seb128: what's still wrong, OOI?
<seb128> pitti, small error in the config.h regexp
<seb128> the format is not exactly the configure.ac one
<seb128> just fixing that ;-)
<pitti> ah, ok
 * Sweetshark install half a million build deps on porter-dchroot
<pitti> Sweetshark: nice that we can now :)
<Sweetshark> pitti: should I test the beta2 on the porters first, or would you upload for precise as-is (with risk of breaking on ppc/armel)?
<pitti> Sweetshark: for such a major upgrade I'd test it on a porter machine first
<pitti> I wouldn't do it for every single upload, but with that many changes it's likely that something goes wrong
<pitti> Sweetshark: I would worry less about powerpc, just armel
<pitti> Sweetshark: does that need any new MIRs?
<Sweetshark> pitti: not as of now, I am just using --with-system-foo when something crops up.
<Sweetshark> pitti: I filed one MIR, doko didnt like it as is => should be discussed at sprint maybe.
<Sweetshark> pitti: s/--with-system-/-without-system-.
<Sweetshark> pitti: so a) it builds now b) if we decide to mir, we can switch.
<pitti> Sweetshark: sounds good
<Sweetshark> porter-ppc is hugged with building LO-beta
<seb128> pitti, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/pkgbinarymangler/precise/revision/231
<seb128> that being done -> lunch ;-)
<pitti> ah, the #define
<pitti> seb128: nice! please go ahead and upload
 * Sweetshark install 310 additional build deps on armel
<ricotz> Sweetshark, hi
<Sweetshark> ricotz: re-hi ;)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, do you know if the libreoffice postgresgl plugin is meant for 9.0?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, i built the 3.4.4 precise package on lucid and needed to disable this plugin
<Sweetshark> ricotz: you mean the postgres backend for base?
<pitti> 9.0? should be 9.1 for precise/oneiric and 8.4 for older releases
<Sweetshark> ricotz: it requires the >9.0 headers of postgres, yes.
<ricotz> oh, ok, wasnt really sure about the version number, but it wouldnt build against 8.4
<ricotz> Sweetshark, ok
<Sweetshark> ricotz: wait for 3.5.0 and all is shiny.
<Sweetshark> ricotz: 3.5.0. should be a lot better than 3.4.0 for various reasons ;)
<ricotz> Sweetshark, this means it will build against 8.4 again?
<Sweetshark> ricotz: um, no.
<ricotz> Sweetshark, ok, so i will keep it disabled then
<ricotz> Sweetshark, yeah of course i am looking forward for a new feature release :P
<Sweetshark> ricotz: I meant it will be enabled in the default package for 3.5.0/precise as it is in there upstream and we have 9.0 on precise.
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> tkamppeter: hello, gesundes neues Jahr! Enjoyed your vacation?
<ricotz> Sweetshark, of course that is fine, i just wanted to be sure about the needed versions, maybe you can push a bump for 9.0 to packaging git
<tkamppeter> pitti, was great, also a successful New Year for you!
<pitti> thanks
<mpt> mvo, hi, I'm working on the OS upgrade design again. If updates for your machine's current Ubuntu version are available, and a new Ubuntu version is available too, is there any reason for people to install the updates before they do the upgrade?
<mvo> mpt: yes, sometimes we have updates that fix issues that happen during the upgrade otherwise, its not happening that often, but it does happen from time to time, i.e. updating a old app so that it does not misbehave during the upgrade
<mvo> or to provide a feature during the upgrade
<mpt> mvo, is there a way of telling which updates fall into that category and which don't?
<mvo> mpt: unfortunately not at this point and I don't have any hard data currently except for "we did need it in the past" :(
<mpt> mvo, then should the OS upgrade process automatically install all available updates first?
<mvo> mpt: that would be a good idea or even better we flag the updates we really need and only install them (more work though)
<mpt> mvo, what if upgrading requires first installing an update to update-manager itself? Is it smart enough to relaunch itself?
<mvo> mpt: yes
<mvo> mpt: hm, mostly, the release upgrader is, u-m itself is not
<mpt> mvo, ah, I didn't realize that was a separate process
<mvo> mpt: u-m just downloads the release-upgrader and verifies it, from that point on this part takes over
<mpt> mvo, so is there anything tricky that would prevent USC from downloading and running release-upgrader, instead of update-manager doing it?
<mvo> mpt: no, I can't think of anything, we would "just" have to shuffle some code around
<mvo> mpt: what makes it tricky is that it does not get any real testing except for when the release is done
<mpt> ok
<mvo> i.e. we release it into unstable, but because you never release upgrade from unstable to something its sitting there until unsable becomes stable and then the next unstable becomes availalbe
<mpt> thanks for those answers mvo
<mvo> mpt: cheers, your welcome
<mhr3> seb128, do you know anyone's been playing with systemtap for debugging on ubuntu?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: both firefox and tbird grw by 1.3 MB each between 9.0 and 10.0 -- any chance this can be squeeze again a bit?
 * pitti investigating our current oversizedness
<seb128> mhr3, desrt was looking at it, dunno about "on ubuntu", do you have ubuntu specific questions?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - bug 894166 :)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 894166 in firefox "Make hyphenation work with system hyphenation patterns" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894166
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> i might need some input on how to make that work correctly though
<seb128> pitti, did you see the pad notes?
<seb128> evince-common (Î 1.4 MB - 3.2.0-0ubuntu1: 0.5 MB   3.2.1-0ubuntu2: 1.8 MB) due to adding /usr/share/gnome/help/evince/C/figures/synctex_screencast.ogv
<seb128> thunderbird (Î 0.9 MB - 7.0.1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1: 18.7 MB   8.0+build1-0ubuntu1: 19.6 MB)
<pitti> seb128: I thought it was me who added the evince one in the first place :)
<seb128> pitti, the first one should be easy to fix by just not shipping the video, though that feels a bit wrong, but I don't see a better way, and synctex demo is not that useful
<pitti> I agree
<seb128> pitti, ok, the pad is not good to put names with lines :p
<seb128> pitti, I was mentioning it in case ;-)
<pitti> yeah, I actually forgot about it
<pitti> seb128: I can drop the file, I'll check how the help behaves
<pitti> ok?
<mhr3> seb128, i was wondering how does it work generally as well as if ubuntu has some packages to help with it... like there are some static probes and glib has support for them, but dunno if one needs to compile glib with that or what...
<seb128> mhr3, we need to compile glib with it, we looked at it at the rally before UDS with desrt but it didn't play well with multiarch iirc
<seb128> mhr3, could be a topic for next week...
<seb128> pitti, sure, I think I tried that some weeks ago, the help just skip the video so it's not an issue
<pitti> since oneiric, firefox and tbird each grew by 2.6 MB
<pitti> we have 6.2 MB package growth, plus 10 MB from new packages
<seb128> lucky that we dropped the mono stack ;-)
<pitti> that's already included in the 10 MB balance, though
<seb128> urg
<pitti> removed: 78.3 MB, added: 88.7 MB
<seb128> that's less nice
<pitti> (most of that are new library/kernel ABIs)
<seb128> does that include extra langpacks?
<pitti> no
<seb128> 90mbs seems quite a lot for new libraries
<seb128> wth?
<pitti> seb128: no, I mean e. g. linux-headers-3.0.0-12 got dropped, and linux-headers-3.2.0-7-generic got added
<mhr3> seb128, ok, good to know, thx
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: it should really be in "changed", but the script isn't clever enough to match packages with different names
<seb128> yeah, gotcha now ;-)
<pitti> seb128: python 3.2 adds 5.9 MB, the other 4.1 is from a bunch of smaller stuff
<seb128> well, so it's mostly chrisccoulson's fault
<seb128> it would be nice if we could drop a webkitgtk from the cd
<pitti> yes, that's what I'm yearning for
<seb128> or gtkmm2 (but that's blocked on gparted which doesn't seem actively maintained)
<pitti> libicu44 7.0 MB -> libicu48 (8.1 MB) doesn't help much either
<chrisccoulson> gah, i really wish i could reproduce this test hang on anything other than a PPA :/
<mpt> mvo, <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-improve-upgrade-experience> refers to a dialog that has "Don't Upgrade" and "Ask Me Later" buttons. How can I invoke this dialog?
<mvo> mpt: if you are on oneiric you can run "/usr/lib/update-manager/check-new-release-gtk -d" to trigger it
<mpt> huh
<mpt> mvo, it's like a polished version of the update-manager -cd -> click "Upgrade" dialog
<mvo> mpt: yes, one of your colleges speced it, its html, we could display more interessting stuff in there if we had any
<mpt> except that the "Release Notes" link opens a page showing *exactly the same text*, just unformatted :-)
<mvo> mpt: there is a bug open for that (maybe even fixed, not sure if that got a SRU or not)
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<seb128> didrocks, joining the pygobject hater club and reassigning bugs to it? ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: completly! :)
<didrocks> but shhhh, you will make mvo upset again :)
 * mvo grabs a chair so that he can throw it
<didrocks> ;)
<mvo> didrocks: which is your one?
<mvo> for me threading is complettely broken, if I init threads it crashes on close, if I don't it hangs when trying to start a thread, its just not cool
<pitti> mvo: gtk.init() already initializes threads these days, hmm
<didrocks> mvo: just a crasher creating a new object
<mvo> right, thats what I thought too, I have no idea why its not working, but I use spawn_async() now, much more reliable for me
<seb128> mvo, blame it on desrt ;-)
<seb128> you can poke him directly next week
<chrisccoulson> seb128, aren't you meant to be doing the poking? ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh wait, I've some for you!
<Sweetshark> meh, porter-armel deadlocked itself and I cant kill the process.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, talk to lamont I guess?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i can't wait! :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you will not leave the rally until the tb indicator behaves ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, I just killed the whole dchroot, which kinda "solved" it for me ...
<chrisccoulson> seb128, and we have overlay scrollbars?
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok...
<chrisccoulson> i think i'm going to be stuck in budapest forever!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nobody is bothering me about the scrollbars, but since you mentioned it, did you have a look to that? or did you manage to use your holidays to not work? ;-)
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: we will fight our way out!
<BigWhale> dobey, are you around? I'd bug you with some Gtk stuff.
<BigWhale> Or anyone fluent in that :>
<mvo> seb128: I get a *segfault* from GtkImage.set_from_pixbuf(pb) currently, this used to work before my upgrade this morning
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i wish the builders were faster. i need to wait over an hour before my test fails again: https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/mozilla-test/+build/3070682
<seb128> mvo, what did you upgrade? stacktrace?
<dobey> BigWhale: busy atm
<seb128> mvo, was pygobject or gtk in that update?
<seb128> dobey, hey
<dobey> hi seb
<Sweetshark> chrisccoulson: ha! just _one_ hour?
<mvo> seb128: my test fails now bt show s gtk_image_cleear() crashes - I don't know what got updated, it was a whole bunch. sorry for not being more specific I know that its not helpful
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i did pretty much no work at all over the holiday, except for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713827
<ubot2`> Mozilla bug 713827 in General "dlopen() gconf library in mozgnome component" [Normal,New: ]
<seb128> dobey, do you request specific sponsoring from kenvandine for a reason? I started sponsoring the u1 stuff and stopped since I noticed you didn't request for sponsoring but just for review from ken
<BigWhale> dobey, ok .. I'll be busy a bit later, I'll send you a question and answer whenever you feel like it... :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good! ;-)
<mvo> seb128: I will dig into it, its just spoiling the fun if both threading and that crash my testsuite (that runs fine on oneiric I should add)
<seb128> mvo, lol
<mvo> I'm sure its a refcount problem of some sort
<mvo> (well, not sure, but I would bet it is)
<seb128> mvo, will be another annotation issue at the end I'm sure, so you can complain about how buggy is the gobject stack :p
<dobey> seb128: he told me to set him as reviewer, because of the whole confusion with the "distro readiness" stuff
<seb128> dobey, ok, I will check with him
<seb128> or we can sort it next week
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<mvo> new gir1.2-gtk3.0 was in the upgrade fwiw
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ u1 should be sponsored only by you?
<seb128> mvo, not a surprise ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, nah... feel free to :)
<dobey> seb128: you can sponsor them if you want.
<mvo> aren't you supposed to like â¦ defend it or something?
<seb128> kenvandine, dobey: ok thanks
<seb128> mvo, well I'm sure you misuse gtk and blame it wrongly
<dobey> seb128: pitti put something on the desktop team agenda for budapest, to discuss the situation :)
<seb128> mvo, I'm just not surprise that you use the "gtk was in the upgrade" card ;-)
<dobey> i won't be in budapest though
<mvo> seb128: aha, that sounds more like the seb I know
<seb128> mvo, ;-)
<seb128> mvo, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkimage.c?id=f085dde830d72b8cd0c804593631a944e9dbf45d
<seb128> mvo, I bet that's bug in that refactoring
<BigWhale> kenvandine, Kazam is a screen recorder I am working on ...
<BigWhale> :>
<BigWhale> sorry for the lag
<BigWhale> :))
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I will try to get a small testcase, but its currently a bit anoying, my test code is fine of course
<seb128> mvo, thanks, sorry about the issues
<mvo> seb128: I have a call now :/ If you have a debug build of gtk it would be nice if you could run "bzr get lp:software-center; cd software-center/test; python gtk3/test_views.py" - crashes for me, maybe you get a useful backtrace
<seb128> mvo, let me try
<jono> kenvandine, are you aware of Gwibber crashing in Precise right now?
<kenvandine> jono, no...
<pitti> good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<jono> kenvandine, it is segfaulting
<jono> it loads fine but when I click the Mentions icon it segfaults
<kenvandine> well wtf
<BigWhale> kenvandine, quickly, blame it on the GI! ;)
<kenvandine> it hasn't changed...
<kenvandine> jono i just reproduced it
 * kenvandine hasn't run gwibber in a couple days :)
<dobey> isn't the UI in vala anyway, which doesn't use the GI typelibs? :)
<kenvandine> dobey, it is fun to blame GI :)
<seb128> kenvandine, gtk changed (cf mvo's issues with a gtkimage in s-c) and could perhaps be the gtkspell transition?
<kenvandine> probably gtkimage
<seb128> <mvo> seb128: I get a *segfault* from GtkImage.set_from_pixbuf(pb) currently, this used to work before my upgrade this morning
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<seb128> kenvandine, same thing?
<didrocks> good night pitti :)
<kenvandine> likely
<dobey> kenvandine: well, if it was in python, i could see it being GI's fault
<dobey> anywya, must get food
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, "great" :p
<seb128> kenvandine, will if you confirm or get a small testcase let me know
<kenvandine> stacktrace shows it is gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> we have a winner: gtk
<seb128> well at least it's not pygobject to debug
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/793902/
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> looks like that refactoring was it
 * kenvandine goes to get more coffee
<seb128> kenvandine, right, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkimage.c?id=f085dde830d72b8cd0c804593631a944e9dbf45d
<mterry_> kenvandine, btw, I updated that deja-dup branch
<kenvandine> mterry_, saw it, i will get to it real soon :)
 * kenvandine is fighting with LP atm :(
<mterry_> kenvandine, no worries, it's not urgent  :)
<kenvandine> mterry_, i tried running the tests last night and everything was failing, but didn't have time to figure out why
<mterry_> kenvandine, the "make test" tests?  yeah, ldtp is broken right now.  But this branch's test is part of the new "make check" suite which doesn't use ldtp, and is thus 10000 times as robust
<kenvandine> mterry_, so i shouldn't use make test?
<kenvandine> every test fails :)
<mterry_> kenvandine, um, certainly not right now.  And not for this branch, since "make check" will test the new thing
<mterry_> kenvandine, in future, I'd still like it to be part of the distro acceptance tests and all that.  It's good integration testing.  But ldtp in precise is broken (fixed upstream)
<kenvandine> ok, so i should use make check?
<mterry_> kenvandine, yeah
<kenvandine> ** WARNING **: common.vala:153: Success didn't match; expected 1, got 0
<kenvandine> anyway to get more verbose output?
<mterry_> yeah, setting DEJA_DUP_DEBUG=1 and passing --verbose will both give you more info
 * mterry_ ran make check fine...
<bil21al> kenvandine: hello here is a bug for you which is affecting many peoples have a look
<bil21al> https://bugs.launchpad.net/empathy/+bug/902430
<ubot2`> bil21al: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/902430)
<BigWhale> dobey, I owe you a beer. Remind me on the next UDS I manage to attend. :))
<kenvandine> mterry_, /backup/bad_hostname is what is failing
<mterry_> kenvandine, that's not even a part of that branch.  Let me make a fresh checkout and try again.  maybe I've done something locally that isn't represented in trunk
<kenvandine> yeah
<didrocks> mterry_: hey, btw, I'm not sure anymore of my deja-dup encryption password. I don't find any token in seahorse, where are you storing this valuable info? :)
<mterry_> didrocks, I send it plaintext to the NSA now.   Seemed simpler
<mterry_> didrocks, naw, in seahorse
<didrocks> mterry_: ah, it's why I've been contacted! :)
<didrocks> mterry_: what should I look at ?
<kenvandine> bil21al, weird crash, it is failing to spawn empathy-accounts?
<kenvandine> the crash is coming from g_spawn_async_with_pipes()
<mterry_> didrocks, "DÃ©jÃ  Dup backup passphrase"
<mterry_> kenvandine, ah, I know that one
<mterry_> kenvandine, fixed it yesterday in glib
<didrocks> mterry_: but but, doctor, I have none! That means that my data are not encrypted? (I was sure to choose the option)
<mterry_> let me get a bug link
<kenvandine> mterry_, cool, thx!
<didrocks> not that i don't trust my own server 2m30 from me :)
<mterry_> kenvandine, bug 901388 (with upstream link)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 901388 in glib2.0 "deja-dup-monitor crashed with SIGSEGV in child_setup(), g_spawn_async_with_pipes()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901388
<mterry_> didrocks, um, either it's not encrypted or you didn't choose to have deja-dup remember your password
<mterry_> didrocks, check the files in the backup location.  Do they end in ".gz" or ".gpg" ?
<didrocks> mterry_: they end up with .gpg
<didrocks> mterry_: and deja-dup continue backuping everyday
<kenvandine> bil21al, i marked both our bug and the upstream as dupes of the one mterry_ mentioned
<didrocks> so it should have the key somewhere :)
<mterry_> didrocks, seahorse is the only place DD checks...
<mterry_> didrocks, you sure you don't have two keyrings, one of which you have to unlock first to see its entries in seahorse?
<didrocks> mterry_: hum, I don't from what I know, I need to go (giving an ubuntu conference tonight), let's see that together at the rally, shall we?
<mterry_> didrocks, sure
<didrocks> good night everyone!
<mterry_> gn!
<kenvandine> mterry_, so i dropped the bad_hostname test to get further, but now it fails at the next test
<kenvandine> ** WARNING **: common.vala:119: Mockscript file still exists
<mterry_> :-/
<kenvandine> is that a file that might be left around?
<kenvandine> where would it be?
<kenvandine> maybe the failure didn't cleanup or something
<mterry_> kenvandine, that means that the mock duplicity program didn't process all the instructions the test told it too
<mterry_> kenvandine, that's a legit test failure.  Which I'm not getting.   Hold on, still trying to clean room a test run
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> dobey, you still need libubuntuone and ubuntuone-installer sponsored right?
<dobey> did seb do them?
<dobey> kenvandine: i do, and ubuntuone-client-gnome it looks like as well
<dobey> BigWhale: heh
<kenvandine> dobey, seb128 sponsored that one this morning
<kenvandine> seb128, have you looked at the others yet?
<dobey> oh, ok; i haven't gotten the e-mail from launchpad on it
 * kenvandine double checks
<dobey> ah it was uploaded, ok
<kenvandine> yup :)
<dobey> so just those other 2 then
<kenvandine> dobey, ok... let me just make sure seb128 isn't already working on them
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm not, I stopped after the first one because it was specifically assigned to you and not in the queue
<seb128> so I wanted to check if there is a reason
<seb128> but I can do them if you want
<kenvandine> seb128, ok, i'll do them
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, thanks
<BigWhale> It stopped working ... *bursts into tears*
<kenvandine> Riddell, any plans to update qt4 to 4.8 in precise?
<mterry_> kenvandine, can *you* try a fresh checkout?  Works for me here..
<kenvandine> sure
<Riddell> kenvandine: yes if only kde would stop making releases so I would have some time.  it's all ready in bzr I just need to test build and upload
<Riddell> kenvandine: but I think the xinput stuff is remove for now until ported to 4.8
<kenvandine> Riddell, cool... includes a bug fix i need :)
<Riddell> hopefully tomorrow else monday (when you'll all be busy in the spa anyway)
<kenvandine> hehe
<chrisccoulson> if i cancel a PPA build that's in progress, will i get to see the build log?
<chrisccoulson> i don't want to wait for https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/mozilla-test/+build/3070682 to finish, as it's already gone past the bit i'm interested in
<chrisccoulson> but i don't want to lose the log if i cancel it :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, try asking lamont or somebody from #is
<seb128> kenvandine, mvo: what do you do with those gtkimages?
<seb128> they are new GtkImages from files,pixbuf,stock icons...?
<seb128> or things you free, reuse, reassing?
<kenvandine> free and reuse i think
<dobey> uh, no you don't free/reuse GtkImage
<dobey> seb128, kenvandine: what are you doing with GtkImage that you would want to free/reuse it?
<seb128> dobey, I don't want to do anything, i'm trying to debug why s-c tests and gwibber segfault with the new gtk
<kenvandine> dobey i think it is where we display the avatars
<seb128> dobey, trying to write a testcase, but a simple use of gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf() has no issue
<dobey> seb128: oh; backtrace?
<kenvandine> and the tile widgets (parent of the gtk_image) is reused
<seb128> so it's something they do
<seb128> dobey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/793902/
<dobey> oh, hrmm
<seb128> basically gtk has
<seb128> gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf (GtkImage  *image,
<seb128> ...
<seb128> gtk_image_clear (image);
<seb128> hum, I'm getting confused
<seb128> valgrind says
<seb128> ==19905==    by 0x5A202C4: gtk_image_get_storage_type (gtkimage.c:981)
<seb128> ==19905==    by 0x5A20AE8: gtk_image_clear (gtkimage.c:1336)
<seb128> ==19905==    by 0x5A216D2: gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf (gtkimage.c:764)
<seb128> gtk_image_reset (GtkImage *image)
<seb128> ...
<seb128>   storage_type = gtk_image_get_storage_type (image);
<seb128> that's where it segfaults for s-c and image->priv is NULL
<seb128> somehow gtk_image_clear is called on a already cleared icon it seems?
<dobey> ugh, it's taking 2x as long to scp this iso to a laptop, than it did to download it to my workstation across the vast expanse of the internet
<dobey> seb128: well that shouldn't matter; you can create an empty GtkImage, then call set_from_pixbuf on it just fine
<seb128> how do you create an empty image?
<dobey> image = gtk_image_new();
<seb128> hum
<mvo> seb128: I load_icon() to get a pixbuf and later use gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf(pb) two times with the same pixbuf from the icon-cache, I created a test-case, but that does not segfault :/
<seb128> the stacktrace is gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf() -> gtk_image_clear() -> gtk_image_get_storage_type()
<mvo> but my real app does
<seb128> where the get_storage_type tries to read image->private->something with image->private == NULL
<dobey> is there a bug filed with a full stack trace that got retraced by apport?
<seb128> not yet
<seb128> but s-c it's an issue in a testcase
<seb128> gwibber is vala
<dobey> right
<dobey> well, gwibber would be fine
<seb128> bug #911619
<dobey> i can figure out the generated C in my head easily enough
<seb128> bug #911910
<dobey> slow bot eh
<seb128> bug #911619
<seb128> dobey, they were private, I opened that one
<seb128> dobey, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/89034243/Stacktrace.txt
<seb128> ok, need to go for dinner but I will be back in a bit
<dobey> oh right
<kenvandine> mterry_, i get the same failure with a fresh checkout of trunk
<kenvandine> without merging that branch
<dobey> looks like memory corruption probably
 * kenvandine needs to eat... bbiab
<kenvandine> mterry_, fresh checkout, ./autogen.sh && make && make -C tests check
<chrisccoulson> does dbus-launch connect to X?
<dobey> apparently yes
<chrisccoulson> ah
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> annoying
<chrisccoulson> that's why my firefox tests are failing!
<chrisccoulson> something is triggering a bazillion or so session buses
<dobey> ugh, something is using dbus-launch?
<chrisccoulson> dobey, yeah, i think gdbus actually calls dbus-launch if there isn't a bus?
<chrisccoulson> clearly  i need to run my tests inside dbus-launch
<dobey> ah , yes it does
<dobey> no you don't
<dobey> you need to create your own session bus and kill it when done
<dobey> i'm not sure how that dbus-test-runner deals with it
<dobey> chrisccoulson: also, you want to have any code that talks to the system bus, talk to your "fake" session bus instead
<chrisccoulson> dobey, thanks. i'll have a play around and see if i can get it to work properly :)
<dobey> chrisccoulson: i'm not sure what you're testing exactly, but if the dbus using tests are in a python unit test structure, you probably want to use ubuntuone-dev-tools for them; otherwise you probably want to use ted's dbus-test-runner thing
<kenvandine> dbus-test-runner is pretty useful
<chrisccoulson> dobey, it's actually firefox xpcshell tests. some of the tests spawn a content process (ie, basically firefox) to test all the IPC bits, and there is something in there which uses dbus (although, we're not specifically testing that)
<dobey> ah
<chrisccoulson> i guess there's plenty of things in the platform that use a session bus (eg, gio)
<dobey> yeah
<seb128> dobey, no sure it's a corruption, the same codes worked before the gtk update
<seb128> codes: gwibber and s-c
<dobey> hmm
<kenvandine> that refactoring was exactly the same code path
<seb128> mvo, I blame your code, I can't get a testcase to have issues :p
<seb128> kenvandine, same for you :p
<kenvandine> :)
<dobey> what is the new version of gtk that got uploaded?
<seb128> dobey, 3.3.4 to 3.3.6
<kenvandine> dobey, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkimage.c?id=f085dde830d72b8cd0c804593631a944e9dbf45d
<kenvandine> that is the commit that looks suspicious
<seb128> the helper which got added in http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=b5d8d2c4a8cf2255cd16ba4e33365cc61c39a164
<dobey> ooh, yes
<kenvandine> wow it is going to be a pita to get rid of the gtk deprecations in gwibber now
<kenvandine> so many hbox and vbox
<kenvandine> might be a good project for the plane :)
<seb128> kenvandine, don't be lazy and don't replace them by gtk_box, go for gtkgrid ;-)
<kenvandine> we'll see :)
<kenvandine> number of args changed and i have to call set_homogenous on all of them
<dobey> you are so lucky
<kenvandine> might not be much different to go with gtk_grid
<kenvandine> i haven't looked at that
<dobey> you don't have to keep new gwibber working on lucid.
<kenvandine> dobey, indeed :)
 * kenvandine merges the pygi tests for gwibber... feels good!
<kenvandine> gwibber now has equal test coverage for python and vala :)
<kenvandine> which still has a long way to go... but at least we can ensure that everything works with python and vala going forward
<BigWhale> I'm starting to get desperate, I've posted a question on askubuntu ... :>
<BigWhale> kenvandine, congratz!
<kenvandine> BigWhale, feel free to write some tests :)
<BigWhale> kenvandine, Now I'm working on getting Kazam into 12.04 :)
<kenvandine> make sure you have lots of tests :)
<BigWhale> now there are none... :/ is this now a requirement? or just a recommendation?
<kenvandine> a very strong recommendation
<kenvandine> we are all about testing now :)
<seb128> kenvandine, mvo: I can't get gtk_image to run into issues in test cases, dunno about your issues, a testcase would help for sure
<dobey> man, oneiric live dvd is slow
<kenvandine> seb128, post your test case and i'll try to make it break :)
<seb128> kenvandine, well my testcase is a stupid one, it's basically
<seb128> 	pixbuf = gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file(argv[1], &err);
<seb128> 	display->myImage = gtk_image_new ();
<seb128>     gtk_image_clear(display->myImage);
<seb128> 	gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf(display->myImage, pixbuf);
<kenvandine> i am not using new_from_file
<seb128> well ignore the display structure, I reused some other code as a base
<seb128> kenvandine, what do you use?
<kenvandine> stream i think
 * kenvandine checks
<seb128> kenvandine, well it's the pixbuf which is built from file, the issue is with gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf() from what mvo and you said
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> so I don't think how we get the pixbuf matters
<kenvandine> just saying that is the only thing that stood out as different
<seb128> especially that the segfault happens because priv->image (i.e the GtkImage) is NULL
<seb128> ups, image->priv I mean
<seb128> ie. the GtkImage seems uninitialized, which leads to a segfault when gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf() checks the storage type
<mvo> seb128: that sounds plausible \o/
<seb128> kenvandine, mvo: do you guys reset the GtkImage your own way or something?
<mvo> no, but GI might
<seb128> like try to set the pointer to NULL or something
<mvo> ohhh
<kenvandine> i think i do set it to NULL
<mvo> I don't, but I'm sure its Gtk.Image() vs Gtk.Image.new() again
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> yeah, i only create a new one when the tile is created
<kenvandine> and i set it to null when i change the data in the tile
<seb128> ok
<dobey> mvo: that's definitely not the issue for gwibber at least
<dobey> kenvandine: you set the GtkImage to NULL?
<mvo> hrm, no its not the issue for me either
<mvo> I don't do anything fance with it in python afaict
<mvo> I just tested .new() vs () but same behavior
<dobey> mvo: can you give me a URL to the code?
<kenvandine> oh, no i don't set that to null
<mvo> dobey: sure, bzr get lp:software-center; cd softwarecenter/test; python gtk3/test_views.py" should make it crash
<kenvandine> i set_from_icon_name on each re-use of the tile
<kenvandine> then after the pixbuf is loaded i set the gtk.image to use it
<kenvandine> looks like behind the scenes gtk is doing a reset on it in the process
<kenvandine> seb128, try that in your test case
<kenvandine> cicon.set_from_icon_name ("stock_person", Gtk.IconSize.DIALOG);
<kenvandine> then set_from_pixbuf
<kenvandine> well that is vala, but you know what i mean :)
<dobey> mvo: which test crashes? all of them?
<seb128> kenvandine, tried that
<seb128> 	image = gtk_image_new ();
<seb128>     gtk_image_set_from_icon_name (image, "stock_left", 32);
<seb128> 	gtk_image_set_from_pixbuf(image, pixbuf);
<seb128> still no segfault or error
<mvo> dobey: its test_appdetails I think, but it does not crash when run isolated, just when run with the other tests (which is odd in itself). the actual line that crashes is appdetails.py:1185
<mvo> dobey: self.icon.set_from_pixbuf(pb)
<mvo> *urgh*
<mvo> hold on a sec
<mvo> aha, no, its a 96px totem icon
<mvo> it gets it two times, then crashes when it sets it the second time
<dobey> hmm; the software-center code looks odd, but i don't see why it would cause that crash
<dobey> mvo: and the app itself doesn't crash, only the tests?
<mvo> dobey: that is actually a good question, I can't make it crash by using the app itself
<mvo> dobey: from clicking around a bit
<mvo> dobey: I mean, trying to do the same stuff that the test is doing does not crash it
<seb128> race?
<dobey> well in s-c case, it sounds like an isolation issue in tests
<dobey> perhaps creating a race condition where the object gets destroyed in the middle of setting the icon
<dobey> which would make sense
 * mvo looks at this
<dobey> since the tests seem to want to do asynchronous things, but doesn't synchronize and block
<dobey> i'm not even quite sure how those tests never had any problems :)
<dobey> oh, i see
<dobey> seb128, mvo: yeah, i'd say it's a race, and you got lucky before, with it
<mvo> dobey: thanks for your help, I will keep searching tomorrow, its getting late in my timezone
<seb128> dobey, race between what and what?
<dobey> seb128: well, the test adds a 300ms timeout which destroys the window (which would in turn, destroy everything in it)
<mvo> I will set that to 3000 tomorrow to see if its that or something else
<seb128> mvo, have a good evening
 * mvo waves and vanishes for the night
<seb128> let's resume that tomorrow
<mvo> yeah
<dobey> night mvo
<mvo> night!
<dobey> those tests are not very good unit tests indeed; they are like testing your icepick works, by standing on a frozen lake with a thin sheet of ice, and slamming it down between your feet :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> kenvandine, well, if the tests are buggy it let you on your own for gwibber with likely a bug in gwibber
<dobey> i'd say there is probably a similar race in gwibber
<seb128> what I don't get is that if that's an use after free, why didn't it segfault before?
<kenvandine> i confirmed the crash isn't in gtk 3.3.4 with current gwibber
<dobey> but i don't know where exactly that code is at in gwibber so i can't look at it in see
<seb128> oh, and why isn't valgrind catching that it has been freed?
<kenvandine> stream-view-tile.vala
<dobey> seb128: that code didn't exist before, so it couldn't segfault
<dobey> seb128: before, there was no NULL pointer to try and poke at
<seb128> dobey, right, but it's still an use of object after free
<dobey> seb128: i don't think so. you don't free ints :)
<dobey> and if pixbuf was null before, it would just set it anew
<dobey> plus, the code change probably introduced timing changes
<seb128> hum, right
<dobey> which could exacerbate a race condition
<dobey> heh, and indeed
<kenvandine> oh interesting
<seb128> kenvandine, I've been tested with http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/794167/
<seb128> if you want a C trivial base
<dobey> gwibber is doing async vala
<kenvandine> in gwibber, it is only segfaulting in a place where it is setting the Gtk.Image back to the original image
<seb128> but I don't think it's going to be very useful
<seb128> kenvandine, "back to the orginal image"?
<dobey> so i am even more inclined to suggest this is a race in gwibber as well
<kenvandine> oh, nm it happens either way
<kenvandine> i have a try/except in there
<kenvandine> it tries to set it with set_from_pixbuf
<kenvandine> if that fails it sets it with set_from_icon_name
<kenvandine> i am getting the crash in both
<dobey> well, assuming it doesn't segfault :)
<kenvandine> #0  _gtk_icon_helper_get_storage_type (self=0x0) at /build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.3.6/./gtk/gtkiconhelper.c:482
<kenvandine> #1  0x00007ffff7899335 in gtk_image_reset (image=0x1ce5110) at /build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.3.6/./gtk/gtkimage.c:1336
<kenvandine> #2  gtk_image_clear (image=0x1ce5110) at /build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.3.6/./gtk/gtkimage.c:1392
<kenvandine> it isn't null in gtk_image_reset
<kenvandine> but it is null in _gtk_icon_helper_get_storage_type
<dobey> kenvandine: i think the problem is that the variable is going out of scope, while you're inside the async method
<kenvandine> perhaps
<dobey> kenvandine: self=0x0 isn't the GtkImage
<kenvandine> for gwibber it is very consistent
<kenvandine> oh it isn't?
<dobey> kenvandine: it's the GtkIconHelper
<kenvandine> ah
<dobey> which becomes NULL before the GtkImage that contains it :)
<seb128> I wonder what makes the helper being NULL
<dobey> the image is getting destroyed
<kenvandine> it's clearly happening in gtk, i don't think i can work around it in gwibber
<dobey> at least, afaict, that's the only way this crash can happen
<seb128> or something in gtk reset it
<dobey> is if the image gets destroyed *while* a call to set_from_whatever is happening
<seb128> like when doing gtk_image_clear or something
<dobey> image_clear doesn't destroy the icon helper though
<seb128> kenvandine, you are sure you don't access the image after having its ref to 0?
<kenvandine> yes
<dobey> well he can't
<dobey> otherwise it would crash earlier :)
<seb128> dobey, right, that's what I'm trying to do, figure what reset the helper
<seb128> it's not gtk_image_clear indeed
<seb128> but something must be doing it ;-)
<kenvandine> the crash happens when i change the image
<mterry_> What's the state of metacity in Ubuntu now?  I see it's on the manifest, what does it get used for?
<dobey> afaict, the variable he's using for the icon, is going out of scope
<dobey> and vala destroys it
<kenvandine> mterry_, unity-2d
<mterry_> kenvandine, hrm
<mterry_> kenvandine, still no idea why make check fails for you, btw
<mterry_> kenvandine, maybe can look at this at the rally
<kenvandine> mterry_, i tried in a pristine VM too
<kenvandine> so not just my machine :)
<seb128> dobey, "he's using", who is he? gwibber or gtk?
<mterry_> kenvandine, pristine precise VM?  maybe I'll try that
<kenvandine> mterry_, yeah
<kenvandine> fresh install from monday
<kenvandine> so pretty clean
<dobey> seb128: kenvandine
<dobey> seb128: so gwibber
<chrisccoulson> gah, 44 minute wait for my build
<seb128> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, get a beer and some dinner ;-)
<dobey> gtk isn't written in vala and doesn't automagic dereference stuff :)
<kenvandine> dobey, so maybe vala
<chrisccoulson> and only one of the current PPA builds is mine!
<chrisccoulson> i'm shocked ;)
<kenvandine> maybe i need to do a destroy and new each time i want to use it?
<kenvandine> re-using these tiles is a pita
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> 2, actually
<kenvandine> i really need to ditch that in the smooth scrolling branch ;-)
<dobey> kenvandine: i think it's your code that is just broken :)
<kenvandine> worked fine before :)
<kenvandine> doesn't mean it isn't broken :)
<dobey> kenvandine: no, and i am seeing some other bad code in this file :)
<kenvandine> there is lots of uglyness
<dobey> no you don't need to destroy/new each time
<dobey> private = new Gtk.Image.from_icon_name ("status_lock", Gtk.IconSize.MENU);
<kenvandine> mostly with to make reuse of the tile widget work
<dobey> yeah; private is a reserved word. i'm surprised vala doesn't error on that one
<kenvandine> oh... whoops :)
<kenvandine> that isn't related though
<dobey> all you need to do to re-use a widget is maintain a reference to it somewhere
<kenvandine> lines 770 and 780 is where the crashes are
<dobey> right
<dobey> but it isn't necessarily where the problem is
<kenvandine> right
<seb128> kenvandine, well, it could be gtk which is buggy but we didn't get other bugs about that yet and other stuff use pixbuf, so it's not obvious bug in normal use...
<dobey> i'm pretty sure this is a gwibber bug
<dobey> and this code is looking more complex than it probably need be
<dobey> which doesn't help trying to debug it :)
<kenvandine> dobey, if i comment out the setting of the image in load_avatar_async it doesn't crash, which helps prove it is the async crap triggering it
<kenvandine> it still resets the image on every tile change, and that doesn't crash it
<kenvandine> maybe a tile is getting reset before an async operation is finished
<kenvandine> and it isn't getting cancelled
<kenvandine> not sure why the gtk change would expose a bug like that... you would think it would have been crashing all along
<seb128> well as dobey said nothing what trying to access the structure of the object before
<kenvandine> true
<dobey> right, it's different code which exposes a problem, and gtk+ itself doesn't know to cancel your async call
<seb128> gtk_image_clear does try to access the storage type in the new code
<kenvandine> we keep track of those and remove them on resetting the tile
<BigWhale> Can someone please run this code on Pangolin and tell me if main window is transparent: http://pastebin.com/04ayrNrv
<kenvandine> we iterate over all the pending jobs and remove them
<seb128> BigWhale, no, it's grey
<BigWhale> seb128, thanks...
<BigWhale> altho, I don't like the anwers :>
<kenvandine> dobey, oh... we aren't actually cancelling the async operation
<dobey> kenvandine: right
<kenvandine> on resetting the tile we should probably call cancellable.cancel ()
<dobey> probably
<dobey> though i don't know if it will solve the crash
<kenvandine> dobey, it seems too
<kenvandine> that and removing line 780
<kenvandine> which is redundant anyway
<kenvandine> that would reset it when it gets cancelled
<dobey> cool
<kenvandine> i am pretty surprised this didn't cause a problem before
<kenvandine> even though nothing tried using that... i would think it would in gwibber
 * kenvandine uploads distro patch :)
<seb128> kenvandine, \o/
<dobey> kenvandine: well, everything was ints before; so it probably wouldn't have crashed, but i am surprised that /something/ didn't at least look weird
<kenvandine> dobey, right
<kenvandine> dobey, mind doing a quick merge proposal review for me?
<chrisccoulson> i though that if "2 finger scrolling" was enabled in the touchpad settings of control center, that it should fall back to "edge scrolling" if the touchpad doesn't support it?
<dobey> kenvandine: url?
<chrisccoulson> at least, that's what used to happen, seeing as we set 2-finger scrolling by default
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems like a question for cnd
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/gwibber/cancel_async_ops/+merge/87680
<kenvandine> dobey, thx
<chrisccoulson> seb128, thanks
<dobey> kenvandine: done
<kenvandine> dobey, thx
<dobey> sure :)
<kenvandine> the debug message caused tons of noise and was useless
<kenvandine> i should have just removed it :)
<kenvandine> it cancels on every position change
<dobey> remove it then :P
<RAOF> pitti: colord is dbus-activated; cupsd is what pulls it up at boot.  Failing that, the color plugin of gnome-settings-daemon would pull it up during login.
<BigWhale> ZOMG! It works!
<broder> cyphermox: do you have any plans for an oneiric NM sru any time soon? bug #882432 seems like a good candidate for one
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 882432 in network-manager "network-manager crashes when trying to configure 802.1x TLS network" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/882432
<broder> (i'm already patching in the fix for my use case, so i don't need the sru, but i'm also happy to put one together if you're interested)
<RAOF> Aah, sweet hybrid graphics.  Nothing prevents the entirely unconnected radeon card from claiming fb0 :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Let me guess! You cannot turn hybrid graphics off for the machine in question.
<chrisccoulson> bryce, fixed http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/revision/1091 ;)
<chrisccoulson> (i figured out where all those connections were going)
<RAOF> TheMuso: I can, but not in the bios.  vga_switcheroo works once everything's up, and X (mysteriously) always comes up on the intel.
<TheMuso> Right.
<RAOF> Oh, hah.  Not mysteriously at all.
<RAOF> The intel is the bios-set primary.
<TheMuso> Ah.
<bryce> chrisccoulson, sweet
<chrisccoulson> it was pretty simple in the end :)
<bryce> chrisccoulson, so what turned out to be the culprit?  I saw you mentioned dbus-launcher earlier?
<chrisccoulson> bryce, yeah, there were tonnes of them running at the point that it started to fail
<bryce> was each test case starting one up or something?
<chrisccoulson> bryce, probably not all, but in this particular case, we are using one display instance for around 1100 xpcshell tests
<chrisccoulson> and each test runs in a new shell
<chrisccoulson> so the buses just accumulate until it runs out of connections :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-06
<bryce> chrisccoulson, yep that'd do it :-)
<bryce> RAOF, interestingly, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that those false gpu lockups no longer exist
<bryce> RAOF, we've only had a small handful reported, and after going through them I think they're all mis-reported real gpu lockups
<bryce> so, wee
<RAOF> :)
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<chilicuil> Nice day BigWha.le =)
<BigWhale> chilicuil, this is yet to be seen. ;)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> RAOF: colord> ah, thanks
<RAOF> If it's a performance problem we could probably delay colord startup.
<pitti> RAOF: not a particular one, I'm just on a mission to kill everything from startup which we don't need, and I just wondered
<RAOF> It'd need cupsd to not query colord on startup and instead lazy-load stuff, and a patch for gnome-settings-daemon to not query colord if stuff hasn't been set.
<pitti> RAOF: so, that's an option we should keep in mind once the more CPU intense stuff (nautilus, notify-osd) have been fixed
<pitti> TheMuso: what's the current status of switching openjdk to the apt-spi2 bridge?
<pitti> TheMuso: IIRC that mostly needed testing whether it works, right?
<didrocks> pitti: are you feeling better, btw?
<pitti> didrocks: oh, yes; first night without having to take a decongestant
<pitti> didrocks: bonjour
<didrocks> pitti: guten morgen!
<didrocks> pitti: ah, nice. Hope you will have some restfull night again before the rally :)
<TheMuso> pitti: Haven't tested yet, I actually need to find a java app to test with.
<pitti> TheMuso: any particular requirements? should be easy to grab a .jar from somewhere and run it
<pitti> TheMuso: apt-get install cronometer -> relatively small, but full swing GUI
<pitti> and runs without any setup
<rickspencer3> hey guys, is any one else getting gsd crashes on Precise?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: do you have any issue with your connection?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: re your gsd crash: I read some people got some. chrisccoulson was looking at it yesterday
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> the gsd crash could be bug 903973
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 903973 in xorg-server "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with signal 5 in _XReply()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/903973
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, rickspencer3 ^^
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson, how are you?
<TheMuso> pitti: Ok cool, will test next week.
<rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
<rickspencer3> thanks for the link
<BigWhale> sudo rm -rf usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/kazam/
<BigWhale> whoops
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien :)
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: je suis bien, merci!
<BigWhale> What is this? I can't even ... :>
<pitti> BigWhale: C'est un langage drÃ´le!
<seb128> pitti, how is your cold? getting better?
<pitti> seb128: oh yes, a lot, thanks; should be fine by Sunday :)
<didrocks> BigWhale: see, pitti's cold makes him speaking a weird language :)
<BigWhale> didrocks, :)) I speak weird language even when I am not cold! ;)
<pitti> bazillus frankophonus
<BigWhale> :))
<tkamppeter> pitti, Bon jour
<pitti> tkamppeter: Germans talking French to other Germans? /me quickly checks whether Napoleon is back :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, kennst Du Dich mit Python aus?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I do a lot in Python, yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you install hplip-gui on Precise and then run "hp-toolbox"?
<seb128> mvo, hey
<tkamppeter> pitti, this happens only on Precise, on Oneiric there is no problem. So something is wrong with Python on Precise.
<pitti> tkamppeter: what exactly?
<tkamppeter> I get
<pitti> I get a dialog "No Installed HP Devices Found." which is not quite surprising
<pitti> tkamppeter: i. e. what should I look out for?
<tkamppeter> Traceback (most recent call last):
<tkamppeter>   File "/usr/bin/hp-toolbox", line 37, in <module>
<tkamppeter>     from base.g import *
<tkamppeter> ImportError: No module named base.g
<tkamppeter> The file /usr/share/hplip/base/g.py is there and in HPLIP nothing changed compared to Oneiric.
<pitti> hm, where does it set sys.path, though?
<mvo> hey seb128, I think I found the solution for my problem, the window is not displayed anymore when the crash happens
<pitti> tkamppeter: I added a "print sys.path" right before the import, and /usr/share/hplip is the first entry; so looks ok from here
<pitti> tkamppeter: ooh, it's because /usr/bin/hp-toolbox is a symlink to ../share/hplip/toolbox.py
<pitti> tkamppeter: it always adds the directory of the program to the library path
<tkamppeter> pitti, can it be that Precise's has a bug? The symlink was always there, also in Oneiric and older.
<pitti> tkamppeter: perhaps you have a local version where /usr/bin/hp-toolbox is not a symlink/
<pitti> ?
<pitti> tkamppeter: what does ls -l /usr/bin/hp-toolbox say for you?
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes, it is a real copy in Precise.
<pitti> tkamppeter: I just installed the package in precise, and it's a link
<seb128> mvo, ok, great, ken find the issue in gwibber as well, it doesn't seem a bug in gtk after all, just that the new code is less tolerant to those errors
<tkamppeter> pitti, does "perl -p -i -e 's/.../.../' <symlinkk>" turn the symlink into a copy?
<pitti> $ dpkg -c /var/cache/apt/archives/hplip-gui_3.11.10-1ubuntu3_all.deb | grep hp-toolbox
<pitti> lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2012-01-06 01:27 ./usr/bin/hp-toolbox -> ../share/hplip/toolbox.py
<pitti> tkamppeter: the .deb is okay
<seb128> mvo, in gwibber he didn't cancel a callback which was making it update an image sometime while it was been disposed
<pitti> tkamppeter: are you sure that you don't have a local version, or a "make install" or so?
<pitti> tkamppeter: sounds possible
<tkamppeter> pitti, I am testing the not yet uploaded 1ubuntu4.
<tkamppeter> pitti, There I have added
<tkamppeter> perl -p -i -e 's:^\s*\#\!/usr/bin/env\s+python.*:#!/usr/bin/python:' ./\
<tkamppeter> debian/tmp/usr/bin/* ./debian/tmp/usr/sbin/* ./debian/tmp/usr/lib/cups/*/*
<tkamppeter> to debian/rules, to fix bug 912625.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 912625 in hplip "#!/usr/bin/env python breaks Python-based Ubuntu packages in the presence of virtualenvs, local installations" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912625
<pitti> tkamppeter: yep
<pitti> $ echo hello > real
<pitti> $ ln -s real link
<pitti> $ perl -pi -e 's/hello/goodbye/' link
<pitti> -rw-rw-r-- 1 martin martin 8 Jan  6 11:04 link
<tkamppeter> pitti, this is a bug in perl
<mvo> seb128: yeah
<pitti> tkamppeter: try perl -pi -e .... `readlink -f file`
<seb128> mvo, I knew it, it's all your fault and not gtk's one!!! ;-)
<seb128> mvo, you are always trying to drag the good gtk name in the mud! ;-)
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes, that's it. Thank you.
<mvo> seb128: â¦ ;)
<pitti> didrocks: I'm trying to test the upstream nm-applet; I already added it to the panel whitelist, but I get a message
<pitti> ** Message: applet now removed from the notification area
<pitti> didrocks: this string is not from nm-applet itself; does it ring a bell?
<pitti> didrocks: if not, don't worry, I'll investigate (or just start the fallback session)
<pitti> ah, I can just run gnome-panel in my unity session to see it
<didrocks> hum, yeah, it rings a bell
<pitti> didrocks: so, nevermind
<didrocks> isn't it the indicator?
<didrocks> with fallback
<pitti> didrocks: upstream doesn't have indicator support, I guess
<pitti> I'm running from upstream trunk
<didrocks> pitti: oh, it's without the indicator
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> so, let me have a quick look at gnome-panel
<pitti> I usually develop fixes in upstream trunk first, and then port them to ubuntu
<pitti> better revision control, easier to forward upstream, and faster build cycles
<pitti> didrocks: don't worry, I'll just run it from gnome-panel
<pitti> I just need to see the applet
<seb128> pitti, what name did you whitelist?
<pitti> (working on boot speed, not visual)
<pitti> seb128: "nm-applet"
<seb128> pitti, check the .xsession-errors log
<didrocks> seb128: it's not that message anyway with the reject
<pitti> seb128: nothing there
<seb128> didrocks, didn't it use to tell the name of what got blocked?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's something like "rejecting (Xwindoname)"
<didrocks> but not "applet now removedâ¦"
<seb128> didrocks, right, I was looking for where "nm-applet" is the correct name
<seb128> where->whether
<didrocks> yeah, it's not easy to get the right Xwindow name
<didrocks> but if there is nothing in .xsession-errors about a reject
<seb128> well seems like it stopped printing rejects
<didrocks> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg2566236.html
<seb128> I just tried with vino
<didrocks> -> seems to be an icon theme issue
<didrocks> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1602997 as well
<didrocks> pitti: don't you have the icon missing as in the thread?
<didrocks> oh nevermind, I misread
<pitti> didrocks: well, it does work fine in gnome-panel, so I think not
<didrocks> pitti: ok, it's maybe just rejected and unity stopped printint the name, as seb told
<didrocks> Nm-Applet or nm-applet to whitelist
<didrocks> (need the X window info)
<pitti> didrocks: is there a magic "whitelist all" entry, for testing whether it's that or something else, OOI?
<pitti> didrocks: tried these and Nm-applet, no change
<didrocks> pitti: indeed, just set ['all']
<didrocks> pitti: you need to restart unity
<didrocks> the new setting is not picked up
<pitti> ah
<pitti> hm, not just unity-panel-service
<pitti> didrocks: ok, rebooting then (want to test the new polkit anyway)
<didrocks> pitti: no, libunity-misc is in the compiz process
<didrocks> not in the panel service, unfortunately
<didrocks> pitti: seb128: FYI, it's not under the debug magic variable
<didrocks> s/not/now/
<didrocks> so yeah, not printed by default
<pitti> anyway, no need to waste more time on this -- this can just be tested in gnome-panel
<pitti> which is painless and quick
<rickspencer3> pitti, hey
<rickspencer3> pitti, I'm seriously confused ...
<rickspencer3> I just updated my laptop to 12.04 ...
<rickspencer3> and I can't find *anything* wrong with it
<rickspencer3> pitti, any issues I should check for?
<pitti> rickspencer3: did you actually upgrade? :-)
<chrisccoulson> if (username == "rickspencer3") { dontbreak(); }
<tkamppeter> pitti, all working with HPLIP on Precise now, thanks for the help.
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> well done
<chrisccoulson> :)
 * rickspencer3 tries user switching
<pitti> rickspencer3: oh, there's this release critical bug!
<pitti> rickspencer3: the unity-greeter wallpaper says "11.10"!!!111!!
<pitti> tkamppeter: gern geschehen :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, STOP THE LINE!
<pitti> rickspencer3: seriously, we do have a couple of upgrade bugs still, and some RC bugs as well (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus#rcbugs)
<rickspencer3> pitti, I don't recall having an upgrade to a *stable* release going this smoothly
<pitti> rickspencer3: but I don't think we actually _introduced_ a lot of major bugs into precise so far, most of above are already from previous releases
<rickspencer3> does this mean that we haven't actually changed anything? ;)
<pitti> rickspencer3: we actually did
<ogra_> should we just stop here and release precise next week ?
<pitti> but the new automatic upgrade tests, also with main-all, helped immensely
<pitti> we fixed a ton of upgrade bugs
<rickspencer3> ogra_, yeah, I am wondering that ;)
<ogra_> :)
<pitti> didrocks: FTR, 'all' helped, I see it now; thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: great! yw ;)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, I know
<pitti> WM_CLASS(STRING) = "lt-nm-applet", "Lt-nm-applet"
<pitti> didrocks: running from trunk, it's the libtool wrapper :)
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, funny :-)
<didrocks> you can chase for a long time for the right name to put!
<pitti> 'all' is much easier indeed
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<pitti> ok, notify-osd killed harder
<rickspencer3> pitti, nice!
<pitti> it already fell out of the boot sequence on my thinkpad, but was still on my dell mini for some reason
<seb128> pitti, wifi against eth?
<pitti> nope, both system-wide wifi connection
<pitti> seb128: I'm actually not sure how I evaded notify-osd on my laptop
<pitti> it queries server caps right at startup
 * pitti adds another noWerror.patch to fix FTBFS, *sigh*
<pitti> cyphermox: argh, I can't push to n-m-applet bzr; can you please pull lp:~pitti/network-manager-applet/precise into lp:~network-manager/network-manager-applet/ubuntu.head ?
 * ogra_ wonders why all the -common packages from the desktop seed suddenly take over 20min to unpack on arm 
<pitti> lots of help files, I guess?
<ogra_> evo-common took even 45min
<ogra_> pitti, that wasnt the case on oneiric, ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs were the only two that did that
<ogra_> but suddenly i see it in evince-common and evo-common too
<pitti> hmm; they didn't really change a lot since oneiric
<pitti> different kernel sync behaviour?
<ogra_> did they switch to some evil compression mechanism ?
<ogra_> like xz
<pitti> ogra_: is it any better with eatmydata?
<pitti> ogra_: no
<ogra_> kernel is the same as in oneiric
<pitti> try unpacking the oneiric .deb and compare?
<pitti> evolution-common | 3.2.2-0ubuntu0.1 | oneiric-proposed | all
<pitti> evolution-common | 3.2.2-0ubuntu3 |       precise | all
<pitti> not much diff there
<ogra_> well, i cant play with eatmydata atm, system needs all resources (i'm happy i can still type on IRC)
<ogra_> i'll try that for the next update
<pitti> mvo: do we also set $RELEASE_UPGRADE_IN_PROGRESS for lucid->precise upgrades?
<pitti> mvo: I'm pondering bug 911813
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 911813 in lightdm "Lucid to Precise: debconf prompt about which DM to use during upgrade" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911813
<pitti> if [ -z "$2" -a -n "$RELEASE_UPGRADE_IN_PROGRESS" ]; then
<pitti> mvo: ^ if that's true, we don't ask
<pitti> mvo: and lightdm is new, so -z "$2" ought to be true
<pitti> log has "Selecting previously unselected package lightdm." which confirms this
<pitti> mvo: and history.log has it in "install", not in "upgrade"
<mvo> pitti: hm, odd. we do set this when the release upgrader is used:         os.environ["RELEASE_UPGRADE_IN_PROGRESS"] = "1"
<pitti> mvo: oh, wait -- this might actually be a debconf question from gdm, not from lightdm
 * pitti checks gdm
<pitti> mvo: yeah, I think that's it
<pitti> mvo: sorry for disturbing, thinko :)
<pitti> mvo: seems the upgrade logs don't show which debconf questions are asked and shown, do they?
<mvo> pitti: unfortuantely not, but that would be a neat addition
<pitti> mvo: btw, do you plan an apt upload before a2?
<mvo> pitti: yes, I was talking to slangasek about it, but there are some issues in the current bzr that needs to get resolved first
<stgraber> mvo: I'm also looking forward to a newer apt (for multi-arch reasons), I currently have a custom build in my PPA to be able to install an i386 upstart in an armel container, though there are still bugs in apt preventing it to work as well as it should
<stgraber> IIRC mostly has to do with considering provides of another architecture (for upstart-jobs for example)
<stgraber> oh and we have that other bug currently affecting ia32-libs where apt doesn't consider winbind:amd64 as a potential candidate to meet the dependencies and so fails to install ia32-libs unless you explicitly ask for "ia32-libs winbind:amd64"
<mvo> stgraber: is that fixed with trunk?
<stgraber> mvo: last time I cherry-picked a commit from the experimental bzr branch
<stgraber> mvo: well, for the one commit I needed, I don't know if the ia32-libs problem has been fixed in trunk
<stgraber> mvo: might be worth building the current trunk so everyone who's been having multi-arch related weirdness can check if that's fixed
<stgraber> mvo: I believe the commit I had to cherry pick to be able to install upstart:i386 on armel was this one http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~donkult/apt/experimental/revision/2187.1.6
<stgraber> so yeah, that specific one seems to be in the trunk (according to the comment in that commit, rev2189 of mainline)
<Beret> hi all
<cjwatson> Can anyone help me with bug 912563?  I'm disregarding the NM crash for now and looking at the partman part of the crash (see near the end of the syslog) because I know that better and it looks similar; I'm as certain as I can be that ubiquity never stores None into that column of the tree model, because it would crash immediately afterwards if it did, but pygobject seems to be returning None
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 912563 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in _decode_value(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'decode'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912563
<cjwatson> In particular I believe that the only code that ever adds rows to that model is ubiquity/plugins/ubi-partman.py lines 1208 and 1215, which are immediately followed by code that would crash if None:
<cjwatson>                 partition_tree_model.append([item, disk_cache[item]])
<cjwatson>                 dev = disk_cache[item]['device']
<cjwatson>                 partition_tree_model.append([item, partition_cache[item]])
<cjwatson>                 size = int(partition_cache[item]['parted']['size'])
<cjwatson> is it possible that pygobject is losing references somewhere or something?
<seb128> pitti, ^ seems something pygobjectish, you are probably the best placed there to have a clue about it ;-)
<seb128> cjwatson, are you sure you don't have null values in a column of the model which is supposed to have strings?
<seb128> cjwatson, it seems that pygobject was tolerant to that but that http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/gi/overrides/Gtk.py?id=654711d0f940d7480d0f1cdb25a3dc9996f7a706 made it not like it
<seb128> you could argue that there is a pygobject bug that null values should be supported
<pitti> re (sorry, was at lunch)
<pitti> looking
<seb128> cjwatson, the s-c pointed which had a similar bt was fixed by https://code.launchpad.net/~kiwinote/software-center/bug905605/+merge/87257 which sets '' rather that nothing
<seb128> s-c bug
<pitti> but None values in models ought to work
<seb128> pitti, than pygobject bug
<seb128> pitti, http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/gi/overrides/Gtk.py?id=654711d0f940d7480d0f1cdb25a3dc9996f7a706 makes it not work
<pitti> where?
<seb128> it should check for None
<pitti> type_ == GObject.TYPE_STRING should be false then
<seb128> + value = value.decode('UTF-8')
<cjwatson> seb128: (a) I'm as certain as I can be, and yes I did read that commit (b) the partman part of this bug isn't a case of a string column anyway
<pitti> for None
<seb128> pitti, it's the column type
<seb128> not the field type
<cjwatson> it's an object column that apparently contains None and ubiquity itself crashes on that because that's supposed to be impossible heree
<cjwatson> *here
<seb128> pitti, if you have a string column and a None value in the model you get value = Nanoe.decode('UTF-8')
<pitti> oh, right
<pitti> that's a bug indeed
<cjwatson> the NM part of the bug is a case of None in a string column; again, as far as I can tell ubiquity never stores that, but I'm deferring looking at that for now since I don't know the client code there as well
<pitti> so yes, I think we should fix that in pygobject
<cjwatson> I agree, but that isn't all of this bug
<pitti> need to condense it to a small test case
<seb128> cjwatson, sorry I looked to backtrace on the bug first, that's one valid bug even if that's not the one you asked about ;-)
<seb128> looking to the other one...
<jbicha> pitti: did you experience this week's sudoku crash on oneiric also or just precise?
<pitti> jbicha: haven't tried on oneiric
<cjwatson> seb128: a pygobject change would make the NM-related backtrace go away, but I'm still not sure None is supposed to be there in the first place ...
<seb128> pitti, do you have any clue about the "TypeError: argument of type 'NoneType' is not iterable" errors in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/89179568/syslog?
<seb128> cjwatson, do you have a testcase out of running easier than trying to do an install from a liveCD?
<seb128> (just in case)
<cjwatson> I wish I did :-(
<pitti> seb128: partition == None
<seb128> -"out of running"
<pitti> you can't iterate over None
<cjwatson> pitti: see what I wrote above
<cjwatson> pitti: as far as I can tell, ubiquity can never store None into that model in that column.  If it ever did, it would crash immediately after doing so, and it is not doing that.
<pitti> right, that's the other part
<cjwatson> pygobject is giving back None when that's not what ubiquity put into the model
<cjwatson> that's *the* part :-)
<pitti> ok, have a test case for the pygobject None mishandling, will continue on that later
 * pitti boots daily image to reproduce
<pitti> cjwatson: I tried the back button a few times, but I don't seem to get _this_ crash (trying to delete an unknown partition got me another, but let's stay on this one for the moment)
<pitti> cjwatson: do you know how to reproduce this?
<cjwatson> afraid not :-(
<pitti> and clicking "New partition table" doesn't do anything, hmm
<cjwatson> unless Kate's thing about having a chkdsk-requiring Windows partition is implicated someho
<cjwatson> w
<pitti> cjwatson: in fact, I think the software-properties crash is exactly the same (also not supposed to be None), and trivial to reproduce
<pitti> it should be _("Other...") and is None
<pitti> cjwatson: so it looks like a dupe of bug 905602
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 905602 in pygobject "software-properties-gtk crashed with AttributeError in _decode_value(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'decode'" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905602
<cjwatson> phew
<pitti> (I reassigned the s-props one to pygobject, working on that now)
<cyphermox> pitti: thanks, I merged it
<pitti> cyphermox: ah, "pull" for better history and correct tags, but *shrug*; thanks!
<cyphermox> pitti: yeah, I had some stuff on my local branch too :/
<cyphermox> dah, I should have pulled and then merged my changes on top, d'oh
<pitti> rebase FTW
<cyphermox> I'll say, "moo"?
<cyphermox> didn't know there was rebase for bzr
<pitti> cjwatson: hm, back to square one, I think; I analyzed the s-properties problem, and it's because that pygobject patch always changes the returned data type, so a previously working comparison against a str value doesn't work any more
<pitti> cjwatson: I think this patch should be reverted completely, as the original justification was wrong (will talk to upstream about it)
<pitti> cjwatson: but that still doesn't explain why there are None values
<pitti> cjwatson: they might be None values because somewhere the ubiquity code runs into the same trap (expecting str where it now gets unicode)
<pitti> but for that it would really be helpful to be able to reproduce this, so maybe skaet still remembers how to do that
<pitti> skaet: ^ if you have a way to reproduce which I can't easily replicate here, I'd like to walk you through a few tests
 * skaet looking
<pitti> skaet: bug 912563 I mean
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 912563 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in _decode_value(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'decode'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912563
<skaet> pitti, cjwatson,  I think I can.   I'll be bringing the system to budapest with me.
<skaet> monday ok?
<pitti> skaet: sure
<cjwatson> the objects in question shouldn't be either str or unicode
<cjwatson> at least for the partman bit of the bug
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, interesting; then it's completely unrelated to that pygobject commit
<cjwatson> ah well; note I won't be in Budapest, but maybe Evan can help out with ubiquity-specific bits
<pitti> ok, I'll revert that one then, and investigate the ubiquity one in Budapest then
<cjwatson> thanks
<pitti> cjwatson: still curious, though; if the affected column type is not a string, then I really don't see how it should get past the type_ == GObject.TYPE_STRING check (as it crashes in the then clause)
<pitti> mvo: so, I'll upload a pygobject which should also fix the software-center crash, in case you want to revert the workaround
<cjwatson> pitti: I think you're looking at a different traceback
<pitti> cjwatson: I thought we were talking about bug 912563 ; you mean something else then?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 912563 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in _decode_value(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'decode'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912563
<jibel> mvo, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/precise-softwarecenter-amd64/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
<jibel> mvo, I skipped test_downloader and will add gtk3 tests.
<pitti> didrocks: when is the next unity SRU round planned?
<mvo> pitti: aha, nice, I'm curious about the diff that fixed it
<mvo> jibel: thanks
<cjwatson> pitti: look at the partman tracebacks in the UbiquitySyslog attachment
<pitti> mvo: reverted http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/gi/overrides/Gtk.py?id=654711d0f940d7480d0f1cdb25a3dc9996f7a706
<pitti> mvo: it's breaking existing behaviour, inconsistent with the rest of Gtk, and the original test case in the bug was invalid
<didrocks> pitti: it's pushed in the ubuntu-desktop ppa right now (like 30 minutes ago)
<didrocks> pitti: will be pushed in -proposed next week, once we will have the precise unity release
<pitti> cjwatson: ah, so let's retitle the bug accordingly?
 * pitti does
<BigWhale> A question!
<dobey> *gasp*
<dobey> :)
<BigWhale> http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/wiki/GStreamerHackfest2012 Will gstreamer1.0 land in Pangolin?
<dobey> ah that i do not know
<dobey> pitti, seb128: ^^ have we decided on gstreamer versions?
<dobey> skaet: ^^
<pitti> there was no explicit discussion/decision for this
<pitti> if it lands well before FF and doesn't cause major issues, it's fine to update
<seb128> no plan concerning gstreamer
<seb128> we didn't "maintain" it for years, slomo is doing good work maintaining it in Debian and we sync what they use
<dobey> pitti: i think it's parallel installable, so i'd guess there'd be gstreamer1.0 source vs gstreamer0.10, in debian?
<seb128> he's part of the upstream teams
<dobey> right
<seb128> well it's seems not likely that we will use by default for the lts
<pitti> dobey: right, but we wouldn't want to have two sources
<dobey> and i suspect even if it landed, there'd be a period where some things haven't ported yet, so you'd have to keep both versions around, just like gtk2 vs gtk3
<seb128> it seems incompatible and it's late to land a new serie and port the code
<dobey> pitti: not on the CD, surely
<pitti> if we switch, then everything should be switched over IMHO, otherwise it's a mess
<seb128> not for the lts then...
<pitti> at least for main/default install
<dobey> yeah
<pitti> that's my gut feeling anyway
<seb128> we can probably get it in universe for people who want to use it
<pitti> ^ sure
<seb128> well I'm sure slomo will get it in Debian when it's time
<seb128> then we can sync
<dobey> seb128: question is if some of gnome 3.4 stuff we ship, will require it, i guess
<seb128> no
<pitti> I think we'd rather stay at the gnome 3.2 version in that case
<seb128> we stay on totem 3.0 to avoid clutter
<dobey> oh
<dobey> totem uses clutter now?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> clutter-gst instead of xv for rendering
<dobey> ugh
<seb128> since 3.2
<BigWhale> crap ... why do I have to give names to milestones? :/
<dobey> well you have to call a milestone something
<dobey> they don't have to be names like "Ed" or anything
<dobey> they can be versions
<BigWhale> yeah I know
<BigWhale> still :>
<dobey> like, for ubuntu one, we have milestones for all our releases throughout the whole precise cycle
<dobey> our next one is 2.99.2 on jan 17
<BigWhale> it's like hostnames.... 10% of time you spent on installing new computer, 90% of the time you spent on thinking about which hostname to pick ...
<dobey> i really don't spend that much time thinking about hostnames
<dobey> and it's fairly easy to deal with, if you have a theme
<dobey> which most people do :)
 * BigWhale cringes.
<BigWhale> now you're expecting me to have a theme!? :>
<dobey> well you could name them after different species of sea mammals, for all i know :)
<BigWhale> dobey, that would be a little too self centered ;)
<BigWhale> even for me :P
<pitti> good night everyone!
<didrocks> good night pitti! see you in budapest!
<pitti> yay, you too!
<pitti> will arrive Sunday early evening
<pitti> looking forward to a relaxed and uninterrupted 8 hour train ride
<cyphermox> nice
<cyphermox> pitti: good night, see you sunday
<pitti> have a nice (half) weekend and safe travels everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti, see you there!
<dobey> well, they are *your* computers, no? :)
<dobey> err
<dobey> BigWhale: ^^
<dobey> has anything changed recently with zeitgeist in precise?
<seb128> that's a question for mhr3
<seb128> define "recently"
<seb128> what is your issue?
<BigWhale> dobey, oh ... computers perhaps, but not software milestones. :))
<dobey> in the past few days i guess, we have started having ubuntuone-client tests freezing for a long time, in ppa builds
<dobey> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/89241325/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.ubuntuone-client_3.1%2Br1176-47~precise1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<BigWhale> dobey, my computers are currently thefish, ocean and squid :)
<BigWhale> oh and pinky :>
<dobey> seb128: and it was sat at "test_log_records_the_event ...                                         [OK]" for over an hour before whatever finally killed the process
<seb128> hum, "fun"
<seb128> dobey, no zg for around a month
<seb128> but maybe something due to the new glib? which knows... or a race
<seb128> hard to tell without a stacktrace of the hang
<dobey> yeah, it's odd, because the tests pass fine for me just running them on my laptop
<mhr3> dobey, seb128, i blame gvfs for any such issues
<mhr3> i pushed just today a patch that disables any volume monitoring in zeitgeist
<dobey> that wouldn't be it
<dobey> could be glib i guess
<mhr3> you'd be surprised about the "fun" bugs it caused
<dobey> not really
<dobey> it's glib and everything uses it. no surprise at all if it causes weird bugs in random things :)
<didrocks> ok, time for sport and half week-end there. Have a safe travel and see you in budapest!
<BigWhale> is there a wordpress plugin that would automatically create links to launchpad bug entries?
<dobey> probably
<dobey> https://launchpad.net/wordpress-launchpad-integration
<BigWhale> yeah I've found that one
<BigWhale> but I am not sure it does what I want it to do
<dobey> oh, it's auth
<BigWhale> yeag
<dobey> so perhaps not
<dobey> probably easy to write something that does, though
<seiflotfy> seb128: rodrigo_: how do i turn off the deprecation flags in clutter-gtk
<seb128> seiflotfy, grep DEPRECATED *
<seb128> it's likely set in configure.ac or Makefile.am
<seb128> then edit it out
<seb128> run autoreconf and build again
<seb128> ?
<rodrigo_> seiflotfy, yes, probably what seb128 says
<kenvandine> hey rodrigo_!
<rodrigo_> hi kenvandine
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, happy new year :)
<kenvandine> happy new year to you too
<kenvandine> :)
<dobey> hola rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hey dobey
<dobey> seb128: are they the new style, or the old style?
<dobey> err
<dobey> seiflotfy: ^^
<seiflotfy> dobey: what style what huh?
<dobey> seiflotfy: in new versions of gtk+, deprecations are done differently, so i was wondering if clutter-gtk was switched as well. they use attributes on functions now, instead of blocks of #ifndef in the headers
<dobey> seiflotfy: is api missing, or are you trying to get rid of warnings?
<seiflotfy> i am compiling clutter-gtk 0.12
<seiflotfy> whihc is kinda old but i have to
<dobey> oh
<seiflotfy> let me show you the error
<seiflotfy> dobey: http://pastebin.com/D91SnS6c
<seiflotfy> grep for deprecated doesnt return anything
<dobey> seiflotfy: add "-Wno-error=deprecated-declarations" to CFLAGS
<kenvandine> seiflotfy, or fix gtk-clutter-viewport.c
<kenvandine> looks like just one thing
<dobey> or yeah, patch it
<kenvandine> use g_type_init
<dobey> kenvandine: well, gcc stops on the first file with errors :)
<dobey> or just don't use -Werror
<kenvandine> that is evil
<dobey> the gcc thing, or not using -Werror?
<kenvandine>  -Werror
<dobey> most people don't use it
<dobey> we have to use -Wno-error=deprecated-declarations in u1 stuff, actually
<dobey> or write a crapload of #ifdef using code
<kenvandine> sure
<dobey> and frankly, i don't want to write a crapload of code :)
<seiflotfy> kenvandine: thanks :)
<BigWhale> and I'm back ... I have to do something about my cat ... :/
<dobey> sell it
<mdeslaur> get it it's own computer
<BigWhale> or just prevent Mr. Spock sleeping on my modem ...
<dobey> removal of the problem is the surest way to solve it :)
<dobey> sigh
<dobey> and building this source in pbuilder works correctly
<dobey> so wtf is going on
<aquarius> in the Power Settings in Precise, "Hibernate" is available as an option for "when the lid is closed", but disabled. Can I enable it? (I'd much rather use suspend, but suspend doesn't work on this laptop yet, and hibernate does.)
<cyphermox> aquarius: just guessing, but I'd say hibernate is disabled because there are probably tests running to check whether that's supported on your hardware, and those tests possibly fail. but I haven't looked
<aquarius> cyphermox, I can imagine that, yeah; I'm happy to update those tests, or feed back information... but I don't know where to look.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> now that I'm looking at it I see hibernate is disabled here too
<dobey> aquarius: it appears that something in precise has broken hibernate pretty much everywhere. it doesn't show up in the shutdown dialog for me either.
<dobey> i guess maybe it's a kernel bug?
<kenvandine> i am not certain, but i know at one point there was talk about disabling it because we couldn't reliably know if hibernate would work
<cyphermox> kenvandine: yeah, I remember that too
<cyphermox> aquarius: fwiw: http://paste.ubuntu.com/795199/
<cyphermox> that's in gnome-control-center, panels/power/cc-power-panel.c
<dobey> kenvandine: which sucks, because you can't reliably know if *anything* is going to work
<kenvandine> and i think someone was pushing the idea of making it use a whitelist, so it was only enabled on certified hardware
<dobey> kenvandine: so we might as well just disable boot too :)
<cyphermox> kenvandine: interesting
<kenvandine> hibernate has been a particularly problematic thing though
<cyphermox> yup
<aquarius> kenvandine, yeah, I remember reading about that; I'm happy to say "look, my laptop's on the list" :)
<cyphermox> support gets called for hibernate not working on certified hardware, that's guaranteed
<kenvandine> cyphermox, well i think the whitelist idea had lots of opposers
<aquarius> but suspend definitely doesn't work (cking's looking at it) and in the interim... I can't close the lid of my laptop. Which is mot annoying :(
<cyphermox> kenvandine: yeah, I think the more safe idea was to disable it altogether, based on how boot should normally be fast enough, and suspend "usually works", iirc
<dobey> kenvandine: so has suspend to ram :-/
<cyphermox> aquarius: let me check if I can make some sense of the test, and maybe tell you why it fails
<cyphermox> (hibernate)
<dobey> hibernate worked perfectly fine on my u820 in oneiric
<cyphermox> aquarius: worst case though, I guess you could try to use pm_hibernate on the cli and then close the lid
<dobey> but neither nibernate nor suspend works now in precise on it
<aquarius> cyphermox, that's exactly what I *am* doing
<aquarius> cyphermox, which I can live with if I have to
<cyphermox> ok :)
<cyphermox> well, the exact test is somewhere in upower
<dobey> guess i should make a launcher for pm_hibernate
<aquarius> but it's a lot easier to just shut the lid, which I'd do if I wasn't explicitly blocked from turning on hibernate as an action there :(
<cyphermox> ah but
<dobey> and i can call it "Go the Fuck to Sleep"
<cyphermox> nothing happens at all if you close the lid or is it that suspend starts and crashes ?
<dobey> for me, nothing happens at all if i just close the lid
<dobey> because i closed it to test suspend after upgrading
<dobey> lit up the keyboard pretty well though
<aquarius> cyphermox, suspend does not work (that is: the machine hangs when trying to suspend. Bug already reported and the kernel team are looking at it). I have not closed the lid exactly because lid-close is set to "suspend", and suspend doesn't work.
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> There used to be the "don't do anything" option
<cyphermox> wonder why that's no longer there
<cyphermox> oh, I'm not looking at the right place
<dobey> yeah, i'm pretty sure that's still there
<cyphermox> it is
<cyphermox> I was looking at my desktop -- no lid
<dobey> heh
<cyphermox> so no lid actions :)
<cyphermox> ok, so the checks seem to be this:  can the kernel hibernate, is there enough swap, and !(swap is encrypted) || allow hibernate on encrypted swap
<dobey> hmm
<cyphermox> swap needs to be less than 98% used or something
<cyphermox> and whether kernel support is available is based on the output of pm-is-supported --hibernate
<aquarius> top says that there's 4GB of swap and it's 0k used
<cyphermox> huh, same on my desktop
<aquarius> pm-is-supported --hibernate doesn't output anything.
<cyphermox> and clearly it's supported
<cyphermox> return code, I meant
<kenvandine> aquarius, echo $?
<aquarius> kenvandine, 0
<aquarius> I tried that :)
<dobey> aquarius: how much RAM does that machine have?
<cyphermox> wait, this doesn't make sense
<aquarius> Mem:   3952048k total / Swap:  4094972k total,        0k used
<aquarius> there is sufficient swap to contain all the memory.
<cyphermox> upower reports canHibernate = 1 on my desktop, but the item is disabled anyway
<cyphermox> d-feet on the system bus can tell you that
<aquarius> did we just, like, disable it regardless of whether the system says it can support it? I remember reading a bug where design said "well, hibernate doesn't work all that well so we should turn it off"
<dobey> yeah, i have 2GB swap and 1GB RAM on this laptop
<dobey> aquarius: it would appear to be the case
<aquarius> But if that were the case, I could understand removing it from the menu. But leaving something in the menu which is disabled almost always means that users think (me included) that there's some way to *enable* that menu item
<aquarius> hence me asking: how do I enable that menu item ;)
<dobey> ugh, but pm-{suspend,hibernate} requires root
<cyphermox> aquarius: still looking, but I can't find where it might have been disabled
<aquarius> mysterious.
<aquarius> looks like I'll have to continue with "sudo pm-hibernate" from a terminal then :(
<dobey> of course, now i've done pm-suspend, and i can't make it un-suspend
<cyphermox> pitti would probably be the best person to tell you why it's disabled, given his involvement in upower and patches to g-c-c, etc.
<aquarius> cyphermox, thanks; that gives me somewhere else to look
<dobey> well that UI is added with a patch. but it's odd, since i don't see in that patch any code that checks if hibernate is available, and it doesn't seem to set it to insensitive by default
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-07
<wlach> is there anything I can do to get some attention to an easy-to-fix bug (just apply a pre-existing patch that has been in use by Fedora for >1 year) in Ubuntu? It would be great to see this fixed in time for the next version: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat/+bug/912392
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 912392 in xchat "Please include upstream libnotify fix into package" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bryce> wlach, yeah I can take a look
<bryce> wlach, but not before next week
<bryce> wlach, btw for reference, in general if you *attach* the patch to the bug rather than mention a link to it, that tends to get it on people's radars better
<bryce> since launchpad then flags it as a patch, which gets it into the sponsoring review queue
<wlach> bryce: I can easily do that, since I created a patched package myself a day ago :)
<wlach> bryce: there's no rush, I just wanted to make sure it got attention ...
<bryce> wlach, if you know how to create debdiffs, attaching a debdiff is a *really* good way to get it some attention, since those tend to get even higher priority in the sponsor queue
<wlach> bryce: oh cool, I didn't know that, no
<wlach> It's been a long time since I've messed with debian packaging but I'm sure I can learn
<wlach> relearn that is
<bryce> wlach, cool!  well welcome :-)
<wlach> bryce: Can't promise I'll show up *too* often as I have lots of stuff on the go. ;-) this particular issue just happened to be driving me crazy enough to motivate me to go into #gnome-shell and debug it with the help of some of the developers there
<wlach> but this is good to know for future reference
<bryce> wlach, yep
<BigWhale> God Morning.
<BigWhale> Good
<chrisccoulson> desrt, does calling g_settings_new result in an AddMatch message being sent over the session bus? (eg, "type='signal',interface='ca.desrt.dconf.Writer',path='/ca/desrt/dconf/Writer/user',arg0path='/system/proxy/'")
<desrt> yes
<desrt> asynchronously so
<chrisccoulson> desrt, ah, that will be why thunderbird is spamming my session bus with millions of these messages
<chrisccoulson> it does this every time it creates a new http channel, to check the proxy settings
<chrisccoulson> we should probably cache these :)
<desrt> sounds reasonable, indeed :)
<chrisccoulson> thunderbird is also haemorrhaging memory whilst it's doing this too :(
<chrisccoulson> that's going to be fun to debug
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i think i'm going to have to rebuild thunderbird to turn off jemalloc :(
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-01-08
<psusi> has the desktop team decided to move the min/max/close buttons back to the left, or is that a bug in precise?
<psusi> err... maybe I have confused myself again... can't keep straight which side they are supposed to be on ;)
<asac> have some problems with adding a new mailto handling app to the messaging menu... seems that the messaging menu somehow believes that it should display "Setup Mail.." instead of "Mail" and I am not sure how to teach it that the mail app has already been set up :/
<asac> found that there is something like db_seen_db in the code and that i probably would have to change my app to tell indicate that the server was ever started. still feels odd though. I just want my .desktop file to be displayed and launched for now (similar to how thunderbird is displayed)
<asac> yeah
<asac> ok found that if i dont have myu client as default client then its displayed more or less appropriately
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-12-31
<jbicha> notgary: "Nominate for series" should work for any package with the URL pattern https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/
<jbicha> like bug 1032833 for instance
<ubot2> jbicha: Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1032833 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032833). The error has been logged
<jbicha> ubot2: are you on vacation too?
<ubot2> jbicha: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<notgary> I don't see any such option. I came across this question https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/140509 and it indicates that I don't have the privileges to do this.
<jbicha> oh they changed it since I joined bug-control :( like that question says, you can ask in #ubuntu-bugs when you run across those bugs
<skr_> when ever i open any gnome app like gedit, gcal etc .. i get an error msg "GLib-GIO-Message: Using the 'memory' GSettings backend.  Your settings will not be saved or shared with other applications." due to which i am not able to save the settings for these application.PLZ HELP....
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-01
<El-E-Va-Tion> could somebody help me to install a driver please?
<lifeless> El-E-Va-Tion: what do you mean?
<El-E-Va-Tion> I installed 12.10 and this realtek wireless driver won't work on it lol
<bjsnider> how impateint of him
<TheMuso> 898SB8BB/c
<jasoncwarner> morning everyone!
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Hey there, how was your break?
<RAOF> Mornin' all!
<jasoncwarner> hey RAOF how was the new year and holiday?
<RAOF> Nice!
<RAOF> It involved much baby-holding.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-02
<chrisccoulson> good morning, and happy new year desktoppers!
<larsu> good morning chrisccoulson, happy new year to you, too!
<Sweetsha1k> g'morning 'n happy new year to everyone!
<davmor2> hey guys is it me or is appearance missing from setting today from upgrades
<popey> davmor2: i still see it
<davmor2> popey: thanks I reinstall webapps might work then too :)
<Sweetsha1k> seb128, didrocks, robert_ancell: may I humbly ask for you to add an endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication please?
<bcurtiswx> gl Sweetsha1k  :)
<Sweetsha1k> bcurtiswx: thanks, pinging people still in absence on holiday vacation, I can use some luck ;)
<qengho> Sweetsha1k: I'd only endorse Sweetsha384k at least.
<Sweetsh384k> qengho: thats so nice of you *blink*
<qengho> It's too early for me. That's was too obscure-nerdy and not very funny to start with.  Sry.
<Sweetshark> dont mess with thge Sweetsha*s: they are one big bunch of hillbilly brothers and team up quickly.
<Sweetshark> qengho: np ;)
<qengho> Ahem.  Tracker processes eat a good bit of CPU on my laptop when I boot.  They eventually go idle, but for manmy minutes, my machine crawls.  Does anyone know why they're not {io,}nice'd?
<dobey> qengho: tracker isn't installed by default. i guess that's a question for upstream
<robru> happy new years everybody! welcome back!
<attente> happy new year robru!
<robru> attente, hey! how's it?
<attente> eh, pretty good
<attente> glad that 2012 is over :)
<robru> haha, nice
<attente> how's life in victoria?
<robru> attente, mixed bag. it's totally gorgeous here and everything is amazing, but the hostel I live in is pretty awful. tiny, cramped, noisy, shitty wifi
<robru> hoping to find an apartment for feb 1st
<attente> what about vancouver? or are you dead set on victoria?
<robru> dead set! vancouver is too hustly-bustly for me. nice to visit, but wouldn't want to live there though
<attente> haha, ok
<attente> well good luck with the search :)
<robru> attente, so the wifi at my hostel blocks everything. even IMAP and IRC. I tried to use Tor to get around it, and that worked for IMAP, but freenode blocks Tor! Seems there's no way for me to get on IRC from the hostel unless I tether off my phone instead of using wifi.
<attente> ouch that sucks..
<sarnold> linode/aws irc bouncer?
<robru> sarnold, I guess. Network haxxing isn't quite my specialty... I just go across the street to the cafe and use their wifi, which is 10x faster anyway ;-)
<sarnold> robru: not that hard, znc or sbnc are packaged.. :)
<robru> sarnold, haha, ok I'll have to give it a try tomorrow. I'm already at the cafe now ;-)
<sarnold> robru: nothing wrong with sitting at a nice cafe :) but you do lose scrollback...
<qengho> Might be easier just to log-in to their default-passworded AP and configure it how you want, ha.
<sarnold> qengho :D
<robru> qengho, ha! I met a local guy here who's pretty seriously into network security and he was showing me how to access the security camera feeds, which are apparently unencrypted over the wifi.
<desrt> hello fellow canadians and friends of other nationalities
<robru> desrt, happy new year!
<desrt> cheers :)
<robru> is pitti already gone for the day?
<desrt> almost definitely
<desrt> he keeps very early hours
<desrt> speaking of hours...
 * desrt pops out for a rather late lunch
<robru> desrt, I suffer from insomnia and typically wake up at 11AM, now that I'm 2hrs further west than before, it makes it even harder for me to ever get in touch with pitti :-/
<sarnold> robru: heh, I'm in your new timezone, he's often starting work as I'm leaving.
<sarnold> robru: it might be easier now :)
<robru> sarnold, yeah, I often see him start working if I stay up late. I guess that's just how I'll have to do it.
<highvoltage> jbicha: howdy!
<highvoltage> jbicha: is it likely that 13.04 will still contain gnome-fallback?
<robru> does anybody know about writing test suites against introspected libraries? I just wrote an enormous (1000+ lines) test suite against gexiv2, but python is pulling in the system gexiv2 binaries and I need to get it testing against the binaries compiled in the source tree, rather than what's installed in the system. pitti was showing me how pygobject does this but I can't seem to get it to work.
<jbicha> highvoltage: 13.04 absolutely will still offer gnome-fallback as we're basically sticking with GNOME 3.6
<jbicha> as of GNOME 3.7.3, the Fallback session still mostly works although things like metacity and gnome-panel no longer have a maintainer & some supporting code in gnome-control-center/gnome-settings-daemon has been killed
<highvoltage> jbicha: ok great
<highvoltage> jbicha: I'm wondering what we should use as alternatives for when that's gone in Edubuntu.
<highvoltage> xfce seems like the friendliest alternative at this point
<jbicha> highvoltage: well if anything, there's lots of choices now
<jbicha> GNOME 3.8 is adding a "GNOME Classic" mode to GNOME Shell so that's one more variation
<sarnold> a lot of my friends are all abuzz about some newfangled "mate desktop", I haven't looked into it much yet..
<dobey> sarnold: it's a weird fork of gnome, from mint
<sarnold> dobey: aha, no wonder they like it :) all the gnome they've figured out how to live with without any of the newfangled churn?
<robru> sarnold, exactly. obsolete from the start.
<dobey> sarnold: same churn, different butter at the end.
<sarnold> robru: I dunno, there's a lot of people who dislike lennartcode..
<sarnold> dobey: haha :)
<robru> sarnold, yeah, but GNOME 2 is a *huge* project and mint simply does not have the manpower to maintain this. it will implode shortly. contributing to MATE is an enormous duplication of wasted effort. A better idea would be to fix whatever minor issues you might have with GNOME3
<dobey> robru: unfortunately my issues with GNOME3 aren't minor
<dobey> of course, i am certainly not going to use mint
<dobey> or mate
<jbicha> MATE is GNOME2 renamed, with a few patches backported from GNOME3, and apparently the devs are interested in eventually having it support GTK3
<jbicha> Cinnamon on the other hand is a more focused project and is already in Debian & Ubuntu
<robru> dobey, well, what are your issues with gnome3? if it's anything to do with UI, then it would be easier to write the UI you want in js on top of the existing gnome shell, rather than fork all of gnome2. forking gnome2 because you dislike some gnome3 API is like building an entire car factory because you don't like the cupholders in the last car you bought.
<robru> 'dislike some gnome3 UI' I mean
<sarnold> cinnamon is _also_ a linux mint project?
<dobey> was, i think
<dobey> robru: some UI, some social, some technical. and one doesn't need to build a car factory to build a car :)
<jbicha> http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
<robru> dobey, certainly you don't need to build a car factory to build a car, but that's what I'm saying. forking all of gnome2 is an enormous undertaking that's just vastly more work than is necessary to solve the problems it claims to address. hence 'building a car factory'
<dobey> robru: also, my issues with UI aren't fixable with simple JS extensions. they are fundamental issues in GNOME
<dobey> and forking gnome2 is dumb not because it's an enormous amount of work (it really isn't all that much); but rather because it's gnome2, which is not technically superior or anything really. it's more like buying a Yugo factory, because you didn't like the cupholders in your Fiat
<Optichip> anyone around that works on the daily release isos?
 * Optichip is hearing there might be a bug with nvidia in the daily release 12.04
<Optichip> popey: you around mate?
<popey> Optichip: hello
<Optichip> hi alan, was wondering if you could point me in the direction of someone in charge of daily releases of 12.04
<popey> what's the problem?
<Optichip> someone's reporting a bug in Ubiquity with Nvidia drivers not working correctly after Install, works fine during, but not after install.
<Optichip> GPU not working after reboot once the install finishes.
<Optichip> popey: this is all third person so I can't guarantee validity.
<popey> Optichip: got a bug number?
<jasoncwarner> hey everyone...how are things going?
<Optichip> popey: bug numbers are: 1078977, 1079812
<popey> bug 1078977,
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1078977 in elementary OS "Nvidia Drivers Cause LightDM to Crash" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078977
<popey> bug 1079812
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079812 in elementary OS "Freeze on startup unless recovery mode used (nvidia)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079812
<popey> thats not ubuntu
<Optichip> asking him if he's got ubuntu ones
<Optichip> popey: thanks for checking, I think he's one of the Elementary group that lacks the Nvidia equipment to test the bug himself.  Maybe I'll test it for him in the morning
<popey> ok
<Optichip> popey: appreciate the response as always and miss ya in #LDC channel :)
<robru> ugh, what's the name of the metapackage that installs all the fun dev tools?
<sarnold> robru: build-essential?
<robru> sarnold, ah, thanks
<robru> sarnold, fresh VM on the go here ;-)
<sarnold> robru: hehe, that first hour before you get everything installed sure feels funny, doesn't it? :)
<robru> sarnold, I knooooooow!
<TheMuso> build-essential, devscripts, and ubuntu-dev-tools for starters...
<Laney> apt-get install packaging-dev is useful for getting all that stuff
<robru> TheMuso, Laney thanks guys
<TheMuso> Laney: ooo nice one, thanks for the tip.
 * RAOF learns something new every day.
<TheMuso> Indeed.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-03
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<czajkowski> ello
<kyrbi> hey there
<kyrbi> I have got Ubuntu 12 server which I can access by SSH. I'd like to have GUI on it. So I have used command apt-get install ubuntu-desktop. Everything installed, can you help me what I have to do next?
<mlankhorst> 'sudo start lightdm'
<kyrbi> It will start Unity GUI?
<kyrbi> lightdm start/running, process 1012
<kyrbi> done
<kyrbi> btw thank you very much for your time
<mlankhorst> np
<kyrbi> But the server is far far away from me, so I guess I need VPN, right?
<kyrbi> *VNC
<chrisccoulson> gah, i hate you gcc
<ogra_> it hates you too
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> that's clearly true
<chrisccoulson> can i book another week off already? :)
<cyphermox> howdy
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<rickspencer3> what's the word on the street?
<kenvandine> happy new year rickspencer3!
<rickspencer3> hey kenvandine ... happy new year to you too :)
<ogra_> happy new year from here too
<cyphermox> hey rickspencer3, kenvandine, ogra_
<apt-get_install> anyone here that can explain what "acpitz" in lm-senors is?
<dobey> apt-get_install: #ubuntu is the help channel, but "tz" is "thermal zone" i think, so they'd be ambient zone temperatures afaik
<apt-get_install> ah thanks
<kenvandine> jbicha, are you going to do an empathy upload after telepathy-logger gets NEW'd?
<jbicha> kenvandine: yes, otherwise it would get stuck in -proposed
<kenvandine> cool, thx
<kenvandine> i just noticed empathy is busted :)
<ricotz> jbicha, updating to mozjs 1.8.7 (esr10) snapshot is pretty safe and works fine here
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi ^
<Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks, robert_ancell: may I humbly ask for you to add an endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication please?
<robru> goooooood morning!
<sarnold> morning robru :)
<robru> sarnold, how's it going? beautiful sunny day here in Victoria!
<sarnold> robru: same sunny day here in portland :) surprising, we've had a few in a row. It's nice.
<bryce> sunny but cold
<robru> sarnold, haha yeah, yesterday was actually so sunny that I had to move away from my favorite window seat because the awful sun was too much in my eyes ;-)
<sarnold> robru: haha, nice. :)
<Noskcaj> could the hundred papercuts guys try and fix bug 1029212? it fits their description near perfectly
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1029212 in hardinfo (Ubuntu) "System Profiler and Benchmark 2 blank gui boxes closing the small one results in the system info to be displayed." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029212
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-04
<TheMuso> Hrmmm. Seems the nexus 7 daily images are not very zsyncable.
<robru> anybody here have any experience setting up a project to use valadoc?
<TheMuso> RAOF, jasoncwarner, hope you guys are keeping comfortable today.
 * RAOF has just been offered an ice cream. He's pretty comfortable.
<TheMuso> If its refreshing, thats all that matters I guess.
<cheebu> Hi all
<cheebu> I have a Radeon HD 6470M Graphics card are there drivers for it on ubuntu
<RAOF> cheebu: Yes; you're after #ubuntu for support questions, though
<duflu> smspillaz: Hello?
<smspillaz> duflu: howdy
<smspillaz> sorry for the late response, I found on old TV on a verge and can finally play skyward sword after my tv was broken for about a year
<smspillaz> desrt: do you know what the most sensible approach for projects using glib + gcc 4.8 are at this point ?
<smspillaz> just detect the compiler and disable the warning?
<smspillaz> I believe its PS policy to use -Werror, as much as I dislike it
<smspillaz> desrt: FWIW, pretty much every other library that uses static asserts in its headers got screwed by this change too :)
<smspillaz> boost, v8 etc etc
<duflu> smspillaz: I was going to mention that I will be aiming to tag a 0.9.9.0 within hours/days. Only really bad regressions need to be squeezed in. The rest can go for 0.9.9.2.
<smspillaz> duflu: sure thing. do compiler errors count as bad regressions ?
<duflu> Also, I will be at a sprint from the end of next week and all the following week.
<smspillaz> lovely
<duflu> smspillaz: Only if it's the compiler version native to that release
<smspillaz> duflu: does clang count ?
<duflu> smspillaz: Depends on triviality of the fix and whether there is one already
<micahg> only if you're running on BSD :)
<smspillaz> duflu: hrm, I didn't know they were doing sprints in the mid-year
<smspillaz> I thought they had canned the whole "lets fly the company everywhere" policy by the time I left :)
<duflu> smspillaz: *shrug*
 * duflu goes to finish lunch and dishes
<smspillaz> duflu: can you check if either dbarth or iftikhar amed are going? I have a laptop to give them
<smspillaz> and I can't post it because FedEx hates me
<duflu> smspillaz: Yes dbarth confirmed. Drop it over I guess
 * duflu goes afk
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> and happy new year everyone!
<didrocks> good morning!
<duflu> Morning didrocks, pitti
<didrocks> hey duflu, how were your holidays?
<duflu> didrocks: Very busy with Christmas and home improvement. But sleeping in was excellent. You??
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, je tu souhaite une bonne annÃ©e!
<pitti> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> Good thanks pitti
<duflu> How was the holiday(s)?
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti! Bonne annÃ©e Ã  toi aussi :)
<didrocks> duflu: was good as well, even had the opportunity to take a day for skying :)
<pitti> I enjoyed ours very much; we'd been in Dresden
<pitti> didrocks: what is skying? you had a parachute, I hope?
<duflu> Heh, didrocks 007
<didrocks> pitti: duflu: ok, always trapped by this one :p "go skiing" :)
<pitti> ooh
<duflu> English sucks. And don't forget vacuum
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> morning!
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> hey
<Laney> how's it going? well rested? :-)
<didrocks> not that much in fact, I couldn't disconnect mentally weirdly
<didrocks> even if I didn't work
<didrocks> well, I still have a week of skiing at the end of the month, so I'll use that :)
<didrocks> and you? how were your holidays?
<Laney> good, spent some time with my family and then with my girlfriend's family
<Laney> then went to the countryside in wales for new years
<didrocks> sweet :)
<Laney> I received a record player for christmas too so I've been becoming a vinyl nerd :P
<didrocks> ahah, excellent! big collection of vinyls? :)
<Laney> not yet, but hopefully soon!
 * Laney spies much unread email
<didrocks> Laney: FYI, ubuntu-themes is automatically merged
<didrocks> Laney: so no need to merge yourself (actually it's worse because you have to bump the version yourself, and we don't have automagic changelog)
<Laney> didrocks: aha, we did wonder about that
<Laney> I was asking what to do about the changelog at the time
<didrocks> Laney: wasn't cyphermox around?
<Laney> infact I don't know how to work with these auto packages any more really
<didrocks> he should be knowledgeable about it :)
<Laney> I think I spoke with jibel but he was also unsure
<didrocks> Laney: ok, cyphermox should have it picked up and looked at the merge, anyway, no worry for this one, it's more a FYI :)
<Laney> thanks, the information is good
<Laney> is there documentation for how to work with these packages?
<didrocks> Laney: not yet, but normally the person responsible for the stack should pick it up when looking at the merge
<didrocks> Laney: I will check that cyphermox is looking at that one
<Laney> not sure if he is or isn't - in this case it was because the contributor pinged in here so I thought I'd look at it
<Laney> it's good for any developer to be able to make changes if they need to anyway
<didrocks> Laney: oh, they can and even upload
<didrocks> Laney: it's blocking the daily build if it's not synced
<didrocks> but as we have a merger, it's better to use it :)
<Laney> so all that needs is an approve vote on the MP?
<Laney> and are MPs expected to update d/changelog or is that done automatically?
<didrocks> Laney: approve vote and change the globale status to "approved"
<didrocks> Laney: if a bug is attached to a MP, the bug title will be use in debian/changelog
<didrocks> linked to the author of the merge
<mitya57> Happy new year everybody, I have an ubuntu-themes related question
<mitya57> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-themes/trunk/view/head:/Ambiance/gtk-3.0/apps/gnome-terminal.css
<mitya57> does anybody know why all that file is commented out?
<jjardon__> Hi, does anyone know if ubuntu for phones will be libre software?
<Laney> jjardon__: #ubuntu-phone is the place for questions about this
<jjardon__> Laney: thanks
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hello tkamppeter, gesundes Neues!
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, happy new year!
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! happy new year :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, didrocks, happy new year to you too :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: had some nice holidays?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it turned out ok, although i'm kinda glad it's over now. i had flu for the first week, and then 2 days before christmas we had 2 appliances fail - 1 of them being our refrigerator :(
<chrisccoulson> so it's been an expensive few weeks ;)
<pitti> urgh
<pitti> I just recovered from a cold, but it was a light one
<pitti> was nice to see family and friends again in Dresden
<tkamppeter> pitti, dir auch, danke.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I am trying to get this with dh_installinit working, but I have a problem.
<tkamppeter> pitti, Axxording to the man page one has to call it with "dh_installinit --name=cups", but I do not get the build process calling it this way, make targets "override_dh_installinit/cups-daemon:" or simply "override_dh_installinit:" get simply ignored.
<pitti> tkamppeter: in postgresql-common I just name the file debian/postgresql-common.postgresql.init
<pitti> which ends up as /etc/init.d/postgresql.init
<pitti> and call it with dh_installinit --name=postgresql -u'defaults 19 21' -r
<pitti> tkamppeter: oh, it's just override_dh_installinit: if you are using dh7
<pitti> tkamppeter: i. e. use the existing target
<pitti> and just add the --name=cups
<tkamppeter> pitti, so debian/rules must contain:
<tkamppeter> override_dh_installinit:
<tkamppeter>         dh_installinit --name=cups
<tkamppeter> Is this correct?
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, we also still need the existing "upstart or not" magic
<pitti> tkamppeter: just add it to the existing rule
<ogra_> mmm, cups
<tkamppeter> oitti, where is this "upstart or not" magic? There is a common-install-prehook-impl:: which places the upstart file in the debian/ directory only on Ubuntu, but this should also work with the new cups-daemon package.
 * ogra_ gets coffee
<tkamppeter> pitti: ^^
<pitti> tkamppeter: in override_dh_installinit: in debian/rules
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm looking at current git head, are you not?
<pitti> tkamppeter: sounds like you are looking at a cdbs debian/rules
<pitti> tkamppeter: oh indeed, raring has a different packaging
<tkamppeter> pitti, I am in the Raring package, cups_1.6.1-0ubuntu13
<pitti> seems between raring and debian git there's quite some divergence
<pitti> tkamppeter: DEB_DH_INSTALLINIT_ARGS, just add it there
<tkamppeter> pitti, Debian did not upload cups for months because of the test suite not working. So I have done several releases of cups Ubuntu-only. I have always added my changes to the GIT, but perhaps not taken some recent GIT changes to Ubuntu.
<pitti> tkamppeter: well, it's equally bad for the tests to not succeed in Ubuntu :)
<pitti> before you know it they will show a really important failure, and nobody will notice
<tkamppeter> pitti found the DEB_DH_INSTALLINIT_ARGS place, so I add the --name=cups there.
<tkamppeter> pitti, thank you very much, it is working correctly now. I had overlooked the init magic in the beginning of debian/rules.
<pitti> tkamppeter: great! (sorry, was off to lunch)
<cyphermox> didrocks: which merge did I miss?
<didrocks> hey cyphermox!
<didrocks> cyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-themes/trunk
<didrocks> https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/ubuntu-themes/remove-desktop
<didrocks> cyphermox: how are you btw? how were your holidays?
<cyphermox> good, good
<didrocks> cyphermox: btw, I think you noticed there is another recent merge on ubuntu-themes (but maybe it needs more digging)
<cyphermox> yeah
<didrocks> cyphermox: also FYI, I finally added the commit message for ido and approved https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/ido/lp582985/+merge/139791
<didrocks> cyphermox: if you see things are forgotten or not moving, feel free to do this kind of things
<cyphermox> ok
<desrt> smspillaz: "don't use -Werror"
<desrt> smspillaz: pretty simple universal advise for everyone.
<desrt> you didn't get 'screwed' by a GCC change.  you got screwed by your use of -Werror.
<didrocks> cyphermox: let's discuss on Monday how the indicator stack progressed between you and mterry looking at it the week before my holidays :)
<didrocks> hey desrt!
<didrocks> good holidays?
<larsu> didrocks, !!!
<larsu> didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> hey larsu!!! ;)
<didrocks> larsu: I'm good, thanks! yourself?
<larsu> didrocks, good, thanks
<larsu> didrocks, is this your first day back?
<didrocks> larsu: right, and you? when did you get back?
<didrocks> I didn't manage to disconnect mentally during holidays though, so looking forward for this week of skiing at the end of month :/
<pitti> hey desrt, hello cyphermox! happy new year!
<cyphermox> hey pitti, happy new year
<larsu> didrocks, two days ago, but I haven't been very productive yet :)
<larsu> didrocks, lots of catching up
<larsu> hi cyphermox!
 * pitti hands didrocks a big "off" switch for the brain
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<pitti> catch up> OMGpainyes
 * didrocks grabs it gladely and will use it next time :)
<pitti> took me 5 hours to get my ubuntu mbox down to 2 and my lists folder < 30
<didrocks> larsu: heh, here as well :)
<larsu> pitti, gut danke. Et toi?
<pitti> larsu: prima, danke!
<larsu> :)
<smspillaz> desrt: its not really my decision sadly
<smspillaz> desrt: plus, -Werror is handy ... sometimes
<smspillaz> desrt: and to be fair, we got screwed by a gcc change causing some broken header file to stop compiling :)
<smspillaz> our code isn't broken :)
<smspillaz> now it just happened there were a lot of broken header files out there
<desrt> the header file isn't broken either
<desrt> it's perfectly conforming to the C language specification
<smspillaz> desrt: if the compiler is warning about an unused typedef then you should probably fix that
<smspillaz> however pendantic it seems
<desrt> the compiler (incorrectly) assumes that there is no reason to ever have unused typedefs
<desrt> it knows that it may be wrong
<desrt> that's why it's only a warning and not an error
<smspillaz> desrt: I think the warning is stupid too
<smspillaz> but its still a warning
<smspillaz> and it still breaks anyone who uses -Werror
<desrt> you ask for the unreasonable behaviour when you give -Werror
<desrt> and i have no pity :)
<smspillaz> no, we ask for the compiler to make us fix bad behaviour and not let it slip by
<smspillaz> its not exactly FuckItJS
<smspillaz> (which I read about the other day, and is like -Werror on steroids)
<desrt> my point is that not every warning is a case of 'bad behaviour'
<smspillaz> desrt: well, we could turn the warning off
<smspillaz> desrt: unfortunately, in a marvel of gcc stupidity, its a new compiler option
<desrt> if you fancy playing whack-a-mole :)
<desrt> smspillaz: -Wno-error=....
<smspillaz> desrt: -Wno-error=unused-typedefs doens't work with old compilers
<desrt> are you sure?
<smspillaz> because .......... oh wait, that option never existed
<smspillaz> yep, I've tried it
<smspillaz> it also doesn't work with clang, which the powers the be insist that everything also compiles with
<desrt> oh christ that's stupid
<smspillaz> desrt: in any case, gnome will make a lot of people happy by just fixing the warning :)
<smspillaz> and save N maintainers from having to add crappy compiler detection code to their buildsytem so that they can turn off a warning :)
<desrt> i agree
<smspillaz> desrt: I also concur that gcc would make N * M people happy if they didn't warn about unused typedefs in the first place :)
<desrt> problem is, it's difficult to fix
<smspillaz> desrt: yeah, I saw :(
<desrt> for the same reason that you'd have to add compiler detection, so would we
<desrt> and we'd have to figure out how to do it at compile time.......
<smspillaz> yeah I saw, it sucks
<smspillaz> what was that whole thing C++ having static_assert ?
<smspillaz> C++11 mind you
<smspillaz> I wonder if C11 got anything similar ...... ;-)
<smspillaz> desrt: I wonder if it would make more sense to just put pressure back on the gcc folks to not warn about this
<desrt> smspillaz: up to you :)
<desrt> i guess you need a fix to come faster than they will reply, though
<smspillaz> heh yeah
<smspillaz> *sigh*
<desrt> the alternative is that glib could stop caring about different compilers being used at glib-build and glib-user-build times
<desrt> although in our new gcc/clang world, that seems kinda dangerous
<smspillaz> I think this is why I've grown tired of compiled languages
<smspillaz> or at least, languages with slightly varying compilers
<smspillaz> and no integrated build system
 * smspillaz misses go
<desrt> if go is even vaguely successful in the medium/long term you will see more than one compiler, practically by definition :p
<chrisccoulson> heh, it seems that smspillaz has the same level of love for gcc as i do atm ;)
<smspillaz> desrt: hopefully not, the go runtime and tools cover a lot of functionality
<smspillaz> that's just like saying there will be more than one ja---- oh wait never mind
<desrt> looks like _Static_assert came in 4.6.0
<smspillaz> desrt: in other "other things breaking my build" news, we had a mesa version bump where they changed a function signature so that it wasn't compliant with the spec
<smspillaz> and then didn't change anything else in the header file to indicate the change
<smspillaz> C is the language of insanity
<desrt> i'm fixing glib
<smspillaz> desrt: woohoo!
<smspillaz> now I just need to get boost to fix their headers
<smspillaz> boost, possibly sigc ...
<geser> I'm looking at the FTBFS of libvirt-glib and as it's in the desktop-extra set, I'm asking for an opinion: the FTBFS is due the multi-arched Python and I wonder if should disable the build of the python module which isn't packaged at all or fix the build nonetheless (I will mail the DD about it in any case)
<xnox> geser: fix. it's easy, there are three ways to do it. wiki.debian.org/Python/MultiArch
<geser> xnox: even if the module doesn't get included in any deb? (I've a patch ready as this way my first idea just to find out that no deb includes the module)
<xnox> geser: I thought it is used, via gobject-interspection by utah for example.
<xnox> although it's python-libvirt which they use. so no idea.
<geser> xnox: it would by the python module for libvirt-glib not libvirt itself
<desrt> smspillaz: so uh.... ya
<desrt> i have a patch
<desrt> but it will cause trouble with another set of compiler flags
<desrt> (specifically, -pedantic)
<desrt> turns out, gcc is a big stupid head
<desrt> it warns that this code is not valid ISO C because _Static_assert is not available everywhere:
<desrt> #if _GCC_ > 4.6.0
<desrt> _Static_assert(...)
<desrt> #end
<desrt> seems like, pedantically speaking, GCC should not be defining _GNUC_ when using -pedantic... sigh.
<smspillaz> hahha
<smspillaz> desrt: well, we don't use -pedantic, but I can see how that would be a problem
<desrt> ya... i don't watch to push a patch that helps one user or a ridiculous set of flags while huring another user with a different ridiculous set of flags
<desrt> *of
<smspillaz> desrt: well, I think in this case, you would do #if _GCC_ > 4.6.0 _Static_assert(....) #else // old behaviour #endif
<smspillaz> in that case, problem fixed for everyone not using -pedantic
<desrt> yes.  that is what i'm doing.
<smspillaz> and then everyone who uses -pedantic gets the old behaviour
<desrt> but some people are using -pedantic
<desrt> and, as of now, this works.
<desrt> no...
<smspillaz> desrt: that being said, I think you might find that -pedantic doesn't even have the warning anyways
<desrt> the problem is that gcc still defines _GNUC_ to the proper version, even with -pedantic
<desrt> smspillaz: i just checked...
<desrt> at least gcc 4.7 does
<smspillaz> desrt: argh
<smspillaz> FFS
<smspillaz> does it define anything else when you use -pendantic ?
<desrt> i don't want to play this kind of whack-a-mole
<smspillaz> neither do I :(
<desrt> anyway... there are other issues too
<desrt> see the bug
<smspillaz> desrt: yeah, just saw
<smspillaz> desrt: well, we can just detect the compiler compiz-side and disable the warning
<smspillaz> maybe in the release notes it might be worth putting something about gcc bone-headedness
<smspillaz> in slightly more diplomatic language
<pitti> do you actually release tarballs with -Werror?
<smspillaz> pitti: every build for all PS projects uses -Werror
<pitti> some projects might want to use it for building from VCS, but for "make dist" it really shouldn't be on by default
<pitti> that's a sure way to say "f*** you" for pretty much anybody packaging it
<smspillaz> pitti: that's a good point
<desrt> pitti: or jhbuilders
<desrt> which is the 'build from VCS' case, really
<smspillaz> pitti: maybe it might be worth turning it on in CI only now that we actually have a CI
<pitti> in one of my projects I had some configure magic to flip some -Werror=.. stuff on or off depending on whether it was a release or git; if I could remember which one..
<pitti> desrt: yeah, wouldn't help with that
<smspillaz> its a massive PITA for me locally too - having to do printf ("id: 0x%x\n", (unsigned int) window->id ()); is just annoying when Window is typedef unsigned long
<pitti> FWIW, I fully agree that -Werror is not what most people want; gnome-common's set of -Werror=... is much more sensible
<pitti> well, that's the kind of type check which actually should be on
<smspillaz> pitti: do you have the relevant link to that ?
<pitti> but e. g. turning deprecation warnings into errors is just wrong for releases
<smspillaz> pitti: right, we disable deprecation warnings at least
<pitti> smspillaz: ah, there: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/tree/configure.ac#n110
<smspillaz> pitti: if you can grab a link to the gnome-common bit I'll post a message to unity-dev suggesting that we use those -Werror flags and only do it on CI builds
<smspillaz> pitti: great, thanks
<pitti> smspillaz: that's not gnome-common, that's "use -Werror when building from git"
<smspillaz> pitti: ah okay. Do you have the gnome-common link ?
<pitti> last one I saw was https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-November/msg00001.html
<desrt> smspillaz: uh...
<smspillaz> desrt: uh ?
<desrt> smspillaz: you know that not doing that printf cast would break your code on x86_64, right?
<smspillaz> desrt: its for debugging purposes only
<smspillaz> I never actually release code like that
<desrt> how does gcc know that? :p
<smspillaz> desrt: it bitches and won't compile my code, at least with its current compiler flags :)
<pitti> smspillaz: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-common/tree/doc/usage.txt, but you probably don't want to depend on gnome-common itself for compiz?
<smspillaz> pitti: sure, just starting a discussion on which warnings we should turn into errors
<desrt> pitti: fortunately, compiz has pluggable build systems
<desrt> he can add this to the gnome-flavoured-automake backend
<smspillaz> desrt: it actually used to
<desrt> ...
<smspillaz> no, really
<desrt> wow
<pitti> smspillaz: they are in http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-common/tree/macros2/gnome-compiler-flags.m4
<smspillaz> you used to be able to use either cmake or autoconf
<smspillaz> desrt: I believe a lot of vodka was behind that decision
<pitti> mmm vodka
<desrt> smspillaz: that's how i feel about most of compiz :)
<smspillaz> I know a few former developers were borderline alcoholics
<smspillaz> desrt: well, its helped and hindered in places
<smspillaz> desrt: I think a large part of the reason why compiz got complicated fast was because it wanted to be the one window manager to rule them all
<smspillaz> a noble ambition, yet one that is basically impossible
<desrt> indeed
<smspillaz> things would be much better though if we just had one window manager
<smspillaz> hence the reason why I'm not going to "port" it to be a wayland compositor
<desrt> we do only have one window manager
<desrt> (and its various forks)
<smspillaz> desrt: when I said "we" I included everyone who develops on top of X11
<smspillaz> not just gnome :)
<desrt> okay.  one good window manager, then? :)
<smspillaz> desrt: though, if I were to just include gnome, then I would think that the fact that you have people using libmutter is an achievement
<smspillaz> desrt: well, I think the kwin and xmonad people would disagree :)
<desrt> meh.
<desrt> x is a dangerous and scary place
<desrt> and i only know of one window manager that was written by havoc pennington and owen taylor :p
<smspillaz> I never understood why the desktop scene is much more heavily fragmented than everywhere else in linux
<desrt> ?!
<desrt> you mean like the one unified webserver that we all use?
<desrt> or how everyone agrees on scripting languages, shells and editors?
<smspillaz> well, we all use the same kernel
<desrt> yes... everyone using linux is using the same kernel
<desrt> ...except those who aren't (android)
<smspillaz> isn't android much closer to mainline these days ?
<desrt> if you don't define yourself directly into that conclusion, however, you notice the various BSDs and solaris pretty quickly, though
<smspillaz> of course
<smspillaz> I guess what I meant was
<smspillaz> what frustrates me the most about of the linux ecosystem is that when fragmentation occurrs, it often results in duplication of effort on disproportionate scales
<desrt> the free software mantra: "anything worth doing is worth doing twice"
<smspillaz> exactly that
<smspillaz> I hate that
<desrt> if ever there is only one of something it's because it's such a shitty job
<desrt> like samba :)
<desrt> i mean... thank god it exists...
<desrt> but i'm sure glad i didn't have to write it :p
<smspillaz> I think the entire fact that that we have to have specifications for window managers pretty much indicates how broken the entire process is
<smspillaz> because usually, the specification means "the implementation has to do X"
<desrt> i'll say again
<desrt> 11:01 < desrt> x is a dangerous and scary place
<smspillaz> desrt: by "x" you are referring to X11 right ?
<desrt> yes
<smspillaz> *sigh* yeah
<desrt> i think you'd agree that writing a window manager is a non-trivial affair :)
<smspillaz> yes, I'd agree
<desrt> particularly one that supports modern notions of (for example) focus stealing prevention
<smspillaz> ditto reparenting
<smspillaz> ditto compositing that isn't slow
<smspillaz> ditto damage handling
<smspillaz> etc etc
<smspillaz> what I'd really like to see is one window manager which handles all of the client <-> WM stuff and then a means to inject policy into it
<smspillaz> I think libmutter is awesome, because its part of the way there
<desrt> damage isn't so bad
<desrt> non-slow compositing needs only a few tricks
<desrt> but ya... most of the other stuff sucks
<smspillaz> desrt: don't forget stacking ;-)
<desrt> i consider that part of focus-stealing prevention
<desrt> although they're two very different parts of the same beast, admittedly
<smspillaz> very different
<desrt> one is you deciding what to do and telling X
<desrt> the other is you trying to wrap your brain around the insanity that results from that (and any other random events that may occur at the same time)
<smspillaz> desrt: and override redirect windows
<desrt> those are boring :)
<smspillaz> the bane of my existence
<desrt> well
<desrt> they're boring for a window manager
<desrt> interesting for a compositor
<desrt> and confusing for a windowmanager/compositor
<smspillaz> and infuriating for a maintainer
<smspillaz> desrt: btw, damage tracking becomes a lot more fun once you implement support for GLX_EXT_buffer_age
<smspillaz> "fun"
<desrt> fair enough
<desrt> i never tried to mix GL with damage
 * desrt always XRendered
<desrt> (and usually just via cairo, much less)
<smspillaz> desrt: well, the main problem at least is that if you draw outside the damage region, you die
<desrt> neat
<desrt> in classical systems you obviously get to be as sloppy as you want
<smspillaz> yep
<notgary> When's there going to be a Raring PPA for the Canonical Qt5 Edgers team? Will we have to wait until April?
<Laney> happy weekend!
<bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, are there any known issues right now with firefox 18 and the adobe flash plugin ?
<ogra_> yeah, it still doesnt work on arm
<ogra_> :P
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, lol, seems to crash on me, i used the flashplugin-installed but i also have icedtea-7-plugin installed. Is it possible they conflict ?
<ogra_> shouldnt, no
<ogra_> flash and java are pretty separate i would think
<ogra_> at least as browser plugins
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, right. Thanks
<ogra_> does it stop crashing if you remove flash ?
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, ill try that. is it as simple as apt-get remove the flashplugin=installer or will i have to find the files and delete them ?
<ogra_> i'd try apt-get purge flashplugin-installer
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, OK it doesn't see the plugin now
<ogra_> and did it top crashing ?
<bcurtiswx> yup, no crash
<bcurtiswx> reinstalling
<ogra_> *stop
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, well no crash, YAY, but now after installed firefox doesn't see the plugin..
<ogra_> did you restart the browser ?
<ogra_> i think thats needed
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, yup i did
<ogra_> weird
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, no flashplugin .so file in .mozilla/extensions
<bcurtiswx> that the right place to look?
<ogra_> hmm, let me check ... i need to find an intel machine first
 * ogra_ is surrounded by arm only 
<ogra_> there should be an alternative set in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, yes, flashplugin-alternative.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin
<ogra_> and that should point to /usr/lib/flashplugin-installer/libflashplayer.so
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, correct
<ogra_> hmm, then it should just work, strange
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, the file install_plugin in there, gives me an error of cp: cannot stat ââ: No such file or directory
<bcurtiswx> if i try ot run it
<bcurtiswx> to*
<ogra_> hmm, i never touched flashplugin-installer before, afaik it pulls the tarball from adobe and unpacks it ...
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1496516/
<bcurtiswx> small file
<bcurtiswx> seems it looks for an argument to be specified upon calling it, don't know why it's there, seems odd
<bcurtiswx> that argument seems to be the tarball
<ogra_> yes, seems you can also use it manually to just install your own tarball if you want
<ogra_> so i guess the wget that actually downloads it is in the preinst script of flashplugin-installer or so
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, i agree. I'll look into it more. thx for your time
<ogra_> np :)
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, well i'll be it's a diff plugin, looking to open a pdf. is there an evince plugin or will i have to trudge through acroread ?
<ogra_> evince is the default
<bcurtiswx> ogra_, any chance you'd add https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evince-list/2012-June/msg00012.html to ubuntu repos ?
<ogra_> thats probably a better question for one from the desktop team
<bcurtiswx> anyone then, ^^
<ogra_> (you could file a whishlist bug ;) and assign to the desktop team)
<jbicha> bcurtiswx: I don't think we're that interested in including Evince 2 in Ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> jbicha, u know why not ?
<jbicha> because we have Evince 3
<jbicha> and Firefox now has its own pdf plugin (which admittedly still needs work)
<bcurtiswx> jbicha, you confused me there, so they didn't make the plugin for evince 3 im guessing then
<bcurtiswx> what is the pdf plugin then ?
<jbicha> right, Firefox is GTK2, current Evince is GTK3
<jbicha> pdf.js, I believe it's enabled in Firefox 18 on Ubuntu
<jbicha> bcurtiswx: here's a dated comment but it's an interesting idea https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633501#c4
<ubot2> Gnome bug 633501 in general "Bookshelf home screen" [Enhancement,New]
<bcurtiswx> jbicha. so if i'm trying to view a bank statement for example, and it's an online PDF form, which the bank says they require adobe reader, should the native PDF in firefox be able to read it, or could it possibly only allow adobe reader?
<jbicha> beats me, Evince works for most forms but I've not used pdf.js much yet
<micahg> jbicha: if the evince plugin uses plugin-container, it should be able to use gtk3
<bcurtiswx> jbicha, OK thx
<micahg> jbicha: actually, nevermind...
<notgary> Is anybody home?
<robru> notgary, I'll be around for a while yet
<notgary> I was wondering ...
<robru> uh oh ;-)
<notgary> Since there's a mentorship program for MOTU, and I've seen talking of reviving the mentorship program on the bug squads mailing list, is there any sort of mentoring program for the Desktop?
<notgary> i.e. The stuff the the desktop team do to look after the desktop CD
<notgary> I know a lot of it is along the same lines - packaging, bug triage, etc - but the packages are all different
<notgary> so I was wondering, if a community member wanted to get deeply involved with the Desktop team
<notgary> what should they do?
<notgary> That's all, nothing big ::P
<robru> notgary, well, in my case, the mentorship program was "Get hired by canonical; have jasoncwarner assign a couple desktoppers to get me up to speed on things"
<notgary> What kind of experience did you have before getting hired? Did you work on Ubuntu before, or was a lot of it new to you?
<robru> notgary, but generally the desktop team is quite friendly; we may not have formal membership, but if somebody was trying to learn, we are happy to answer questions.
<robru> notgary, I had experience with open source upstreams only, I had zero experience with ubuntu.
<robru> notgary, errr, meant to say "may not have formal mentorship", not membership
<notgary> Is there any sort of one stop shop for the list of things the the desktop team need to get done right now, that someone could just go in and pick things from to get started?
<robru> notgary, yes, that list definitely exists. let me see if I can remember where we keep it...
<robru> notgary, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html here you go. this is our auto-generated list of packages that need to get updated.
<robru> (there's a legend at the bottom of the page explaining what the colors mean)
<robru> notgary, so basically ubuntu wiki has instructions on how to do packaging, pick a package and see about updating the package to the latest upstream ;-)
<notgary> Do we always try to update it in Debian first and then sync Ubuntu with that?
<robru> notgary, well yes, syncing with debian is always ideal. but debian is still in freeze so we don't wait around for them
<robru> (debian has been in freeze for the entire time that canonical has employed me thus far... :-/
<notgary> Fair enough :P
<notgary> When the Debian package gets updated and the next sync happens, is there any problem with the Ubuntu package being newer than the Debian version, or is that handled gracefully
<notgary> ?
<robru> notgary, I honestly don't know what happens when ubuntu's package is newer. ideally we should make some effort to push it to debian, but I'm not sure how much that actually happens really.
<notgary> robru, Fair enough. I guess the etiquette is just to click the "Open Bug" link on the right and assign the bug to myself?
<robru> notgary, yeah, if you want to tackle a package, please open a bug and assign it to yourself so that nobody else duplicates the effort.
<robru> notgary, and if you run into trouble, don't hesitate to ask people. I'm sure mterry would be delighted to help you ;-)
<mterry> notgary, if our version is newer, it requires a manual merge, tracked by merges.ubuntu.com
<notgary> robru, mterry, thanks both for your help. I really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll be back soon enough with more questions.
<notgary> Anyway, bye for now
<notgary> o/
<robru> notgary, you're welcome
<Guest9336> hello
<Guest9336> I like Ubuntu
<Guest9336> but I like more Ubuntu with gnome
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-01-05
<notgary> I've just attempted to checkout ubuntu/apt and ran into an error message that ran off the top of my screen. Does anyone know what this means? https://gist.github.com/4461417
<notgary> Is anybody home?
<notgary> Is anybody home?
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-12-30
<steve_fi> is there anyone who knows what version of Mesa and the Intel GPU driver is using on Ubuntu 14.04 right now?
<dobey> steve_fi: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source_package_name> has the versions in all supported versions of ubuntu listed, for the source package
<steve_fi> dobey, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-01
<JackYu> happy new year, every one!
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-02
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!
<Laney> mlankhorst: <tumbleweed>
<larsu> happy new year!
<Laney> hey larsu mlankhorst, happy new year!
<Laney> did you have good holidays?
<larsu> Laney: yep, the usual: lots of family visting and food. How about you?
 * larsu tried to stay away from the computer as well, with varying success
<mlankhorst> larsu/Laney: happy newyear :-)
<Laney> travelling, visiting people, food, board games & walking
 * Laney got Cards Against Humanity... muhahaha
<Laney> still have today and tomorrow to fill with climbing & cycling
<larsu> nice!
<mlankhorst> Laney: ugh climbing :P
<mlankhorst> biking's no fun either in the cold
<cyphermox> good morning! happy new year everyone!
<desrt> cyphermox: happy new year :)
<cyphermox> hey desrt
<desrt> i hear it's going to be the year of linux on the desktop
<cyphermox> hahah yes, of course it will
<cyphermox> it's been 10 of those already
<desrt> (inb4)
<desrt> quiet day.  i guess a lot of people took the extra two days
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> desrt: any ideas for a frivolous way to spend 50$?
<cyphermox> tech-related is best :)
<desrt> eff or wikipedia donation
<cyphermox> ah, I hadn't thought of that
<desrt> could also buy a rasppi and an SD card, i guess
<cyphermox> meh
<desrt> ya... that's about the response i have after owning one for a while
<desrt> unless you have a specific project in mind, a VM is more fun :)
<desrt> (and for most projects i end up wanting to do, an arduino is typically more than enough)
<cyphermox> I already have a arduino
<cyphermox> which triggered me finding out that I really suck at soldering
<desrt> it's also a meh unless you have a project for it
<cyphermox> right
<cyphermox> I thought I might find some little bluetooth majiger to hack and play with and write an app for on Touch, but I lack inspiration
<davmor2> cyphermox: look at youtube there are some pretty good guides to how to get better at soldering :)
<davmor2> cyphermox: are you the pest person to ask about why n-m randomly seems to disconnect from a wifi ap?  and what stuff do you need for a bug?
<cyphermox> yes, and mostly just syslog
<cyphermox> from syslog I can usually tell you why, as long as it's complete
<davmor2> cyphermox: due to being on images longer over the holiday, I've noticed that on long sleeps when you wake the phone it shows the "there are networks available" symbol instead of being connected, if I select my network it connects again fine
<davmor2> cyphermox: I'll see if it has happened now and grab some logs if it has
<attente> hi, could someone help me upload a new unity-gtk-module to trusty?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-03
<Sweetshark> LibreOffice upstream QA is awesome, they are down to 750 unconfirmed bugs. If they continue like that, it will soon be more stuff in lp (~650) than upstream.
 * mpt wonders if âStart Screen Saverâ should be present in the system menu at the login screen
<mpt> â¦like it is in the live session
<mpt> charles, <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemMenu?action=diff&rev2=8&rev1=6> shows the variations of indicator-session (since you arenât subscribed to that page). I think that will be the most complex.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-01-04
<maxiaojun> ubuntu-desktop meta package shouldn't recommend ibus*
<maxiaojun> ibus-pinyin struck in an old version in debian/ubuntu pretty annoying and useless
<maxiaojun> ibus-table is also useless by itself, it is meta engine that requires some data file to work
<maxiaojun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1164252
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1164252 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Improve default selection of IBus related packages" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-29
<ioURT> hello
<ioURT> can someone kline phunygay
<ioURT> cause hes an assholes besides being anti gay
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-30
<Laney> you guys, we missed the meeting!
<Noskcaj> Laney, Is there anything i can do to get my MOTU vote finished sooner, or are too many people away for holidays?
<Laney> Noskcaj: Not so much probably, I will remind people at the next meeting
<Laney> and I'll vote before then
<Noskcaj> thanks
<desrt> Laney: good evening
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-12-31
 * desrt ups the technology level and switches his chroots over to squashfs + aufs overlay
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-01
<ost> how do you guys feel about ubuntu kylin?
<ost> hello?
<happygilmore> I have a mysterious question
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-01-04
<bunsenBurner> Hey there! Anyone here have experience with reFIND and installing ubuntu on a mac with WDE?
<bunsenBurner> Heyo. Anyone have experience dual booting ubuntu onto a mac? I have my bootable flash drive, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to install properly.
<bunsenBurner> :'( darn it. I really wish I understood this stuff.
<bunsenBurner> Ah well, wish me luck.
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-04
 * TheMuso -> EOD.
<hikiko> Hi
<duflu> hikiko: Morning.
<duflu> And happy 2016
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde, et bonne annÃ©e !
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, bonne annÃ©e !
<hikiko> happy new year everyone
<didrocks> pitti: hikiko: happy new year to you too! :)
<pitti> hey hikiko!
<hikiko> hi didrocks pitti duflu :)
<hikiko> thank you :)
<larsu> happy new year!
<didrocks> happy new year larsu!
<pitti> hey larsu, gesundes Neues!
<larsu> thanks didrocks! How are you?
<larsu> danke pitti!
<didrocks> larsu: I'm good, thanks! How were you holidays?
<larsu> pitti: wie gehts?
<pitti> larsu: supi, danke! hatte ein paar schoene erholsame Ferien
<larsu> didrocks: awesome! Athens, family, small town in the mountains and some hiking
<larsu> didrocks: how were yours?
<larsu> pitti: schÃ¶n :)
<didrocks> larsu: nothing fancy for those short ones. Stayed in Lyon mostly, having family visiting and such :)
<larsu> didrocks: makes snese for the holidays
<hikiko> http://i.imgur.com/rNtMQCy.png?1
<hikiko> :D
<hikiko> shaped window shadows work :D
<larsu> hikiko: nice!
<willcooke> *yawn* Morning
<willcooke> happy new year gang
<didrocks> good morning willcooke, happy new year!
<dholbach> hey hey
<dholbach> I was just looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vte2.91/+bug/1528728 which looks fine
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1528728 in Gnome Virtual Terminal Emulator "gnome-terminal starts up at 79Ã23 instead of 80Ã24" [Medium,Confirmed]
<dholbach> but I noticed that http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/vte/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/changelog and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/vte/ubuntu-vte3/view/head:/debian/changelog both were about vte3
<pitti> hey dholbach, hey willcooke -- happy new year!
<dholbach> hey pitti
<dholbach> hey willcooke
<hikiko> happy new year willcooke dholbach larsu :)
<dholbach> hey larsu, hey hikiko
<dholbach> all the best to all of you
<dholbach> I assume it's OK, but I wanted to ask if I can move the vte (not the vte3-ubuntu) branch back to vte2.91
<alexarnaud> hello all!
<Laney> HEY!
<didrocks> hey dholbach, alexarnaud, Laney!
<alexarnaud> hey didrocks!
<dholbach> hi alexarnaud, hey Laney, salut didrocks
<alexarnaud> didrocks: happy new year !
<didrocks> happy new year to all :)
<Laney> dholbach: why not make a vte2.91 branch?
<Laney> it's annoying when they aren't named after the source package anyway
<alexarnaud> didrocks: why Compiz package has Ubuntu version specified? Is it because Ubuntu package has modification ?
<Laney> also happy new year
<dholbach> Laney: do we have 3 vte source packages?
<didrocks> alexarnaud: no, it's just because we are using our own CI system, which for backports, use a versioning which is similar than the ubuntu ones
<dholbach> happy new year to you too :)
<Laney> it was the gtk3 version
<Laney> and then that had an api break so was again renamed
<Laney> didrocks: :)))))))))
<Laney> did you have good holidays?
<alexarnaud> didrocks: what's CI system ?
<didrocks> alexarnaud: Continuous Integration
<alexarnaud> OK
<alexarnaud> didrocks: can we create branch stable in launchpad ?
<alexarnaud> It will be better for us to integrate Compiz in Debian
<didrocks> alexarnaud: check that directly with the compiz upstream maintainers: hikiko, Trevinho|OFF ^
<dholbach> Laney: but that would mean we'd have to add a new LP project every time the source package is renamed...?
<Laney> same with every other package we have
<Laney> I can't imagine it will happen that often
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you? happy new year!
<Laney> or just make one called ubuntu-vte2.91 if you want
<dholbach> but do we have more than two branches we're tracking right now?
<Laney> honestly
<Laney> I can't be arsed to have an argument as the first thing to start a new year
<Laney> so do what you want :)
<Laney> hey pitti!
<Laney> feeeeeeeeeeeeling slow
<Laney> how are you?
<pitti> Laney: well-rested after two weeks of vac without IRC and not much work :)
<Laney> \o/
<pitti> Laney: it was nice to meet folks again, and have some time to read, walk, visit some museums, etc.
<Laney> did you do some travelling?
<pitti> Laney: they have an exhibition about Tutenchamum's grave in Dresden, highly fascinating (one of the very few which have been mostly undisturbed for 3.000 years)
<pitti> Laney: we went to Dresden, not much else
<dholbach> Laney: I really didn't want to have an argument - I just saw that the branches were out of date and wanted to fix them
<pitti> Laney: did you go somewhere?
<dholbach> and I'm not really one of the main users of these branches but was told to update them in the past
<Laney> pitti: I went to the seaside for Christmas itself
<Laney> had a swim in the sea for boxing day
<Laney> that was c-c-c-c-c-c-c-cold
<larsu> oh, hi all!
<pitti> *shudder*
<larsu> hi dholbach, willcooke, and Laney!
<pitti> Laney: we had 15 degrees around christmas, but still..
<pitti> now we have snow, finally :)
<Laney> oh nice
<Laney> I think the sea there would probably be freezing even in the middle of summer :P
<Laney> hey larsu!
<larsu> Laney!!! How are you?
<Laney> larsu: blug
<Laney> feeling not quite here really
<Laney> it's been too long!
<Laney> but in general good and rested
<didrocks> Laney: upload something, then you will feel back at work :)
<larsu> Laney: it'll get better quickly ;) Start with the bug list!
<Laney> dholbach: OK, so at the package level it was a fork and the old one wasn't simply dropped so I would make a new branch for it and if you don't want to make a new project then put something in the branch name IMHO
<Laney> larsu: did you have good hols?
<Laney> you went away right?
<dholbach> Laney: ok, will do - thanks
<Laney> dholbach: you can branch from the old one and then update that of course
<Laney> to keep the old history
<Laney> if you care
<dholbach> yep, ok
<larsu> Laney: yes, awesome. Spent time in Athens, then Berlin for family, then some hiking in central Germany over New Year's
 * larsu <- very relaxed
<Laney> amazing!
<larsu> it was
<Laney> right
<Laney> I am terminating the windows partition on my desktop
<Laney> scrabbling around for the odd 100 meg every other day is a waste of time
<Laney> can't even remember the last time I booted it anyway
<pitti> Laney: time for baobab? :-)
<Laney> first zsync
<Laney> then that :)
<pitti> Laney: there are certainly a lot of potential hogs, like ~/.cache/ubuntuimages and such like
<Laney> pitti: I moved all the big stuff onto rust
<Laney> now it's things like **/build-area getting big over time
<xnox_2016> Laney, hehe =) i've been trying to switch off RAID on my laptop =) it's a pain, because windows doesn't include AHCI drivers into it's "initrd" by default, and ends up failing to boot.
<Laney> sometimes the journal gets large
<xnox_2016> and obviously there is no powershell command for update-initramfs....
<pitti> Laney: ah, all of these live on /tmp/ (i. e. tmpfs) here
<pitti> hey xnox, happy new year!
<xnox> pitti, happy new year! =)
<hikiko> in hr.canonical.com the national holiday option disappeared! :s
<Laney> supposed to be automatic now
<hikiko> so no need to notify anybody?
<hikiko> cool :)
<willcooke> hikiko, if you could drop me a line that would be appreciated
<willcooke> I've been adding them to the main holiday calendar as I've come across them, but there are bound to be loads missing
<Laney> hikiko: they are pre filled for me
<Laney> go to "View" on "all other absences" and see if you have some pink days there
<Laney> and hey, happy new year ;-)
<hikiko> I can only see them in my calendar not in hr.canonical.com, thanks Laney :) happy new year to you too!
<didrocks> hum, grub2 is in sync and stuck in propose, /me prepares a debdiff for colin then
<xnox> pitti, i see a few things started to depend on higher debhelper, than what we have. Will you have time to re-merge debhelper please? =)
<pitti> xnox: yes, no problem
<xnox> danke =)
 * Laney is moving partition now
<Laney> scary
<pitti> xnox: this auto-enables building -dbgsym packages now; I wonder if that will make Launchpad explode completely
<pitti> xnox: I figure I'll disable that for the time being
 * xnox pictures Laney carrying a byobu screen across the house.
<xnox> pitti, well, inside launchpad we do have dbgsyms enabled by default. but i guess pkgmangler will need adjustment.
<pitti> xnox: ish -- debian calls them ".deb", not ".ddeb"
<dpm> happy new year desktoppers :)
<pitti> hey dpm, happy new year!
<xnox> pitti, i wonder if pkgmangler should support the same variable to prevent producing them.
<dpm> hey pitti :)
<didrocks> happy new year dpm!
<pitti> xnox: $DH_BUILD_DDEBS? yeah, we can teach it to check this for an empty value
<pitti> xnox: but actually, no -- https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debhelper/debhelper.git/commit/?id=f1a8034 removed this, so it was just an internal variable for testing
<pitti> xnox: ah, but it should check DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=noddebs indeed
<xnox> yeah, that.
<pitti> xnox: uploaded
<Laney> yay
<Laney> gparted is the tool of kings
<Laney> /dev/sda5       235G  113G  111G  51% /
<xnox> Laney, how did it go? all good? =) what did you do? remove partition, move partition, resize partition?
<Laney> yeah
<xnox> awesome.
<Laney> chroot, update-grub
<xnox> Laney, i still need to shrink my windows 10 install and do dual boot. I like windows 10 for like iplayer and things.
<xnox> but now I have to decide what the split should be between the two =(
<Laney> yeah I had windows pretty big because of games
 * Laney hopes that half life 3 is linux from the start
<Laney> because if not then it'll be announced now that I've removed windows :)
<alexarnaud> Has anyone know how to find gnome-settings-daemon-schema deb source ? I've tried to copy from launchpad but in control file I only found gnome-settings-deamon and -dev
<alexarnaud> I've finnally find it.
<andyrock> morning all :D
<alexarnaud> didrocks: do you know how work gnome-settings-daemon-schema package ? I don't understand how to find source code and how to find debian meta-information. It's not really clear on launchpad for me. I've found here : https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu and here : https://launchpad.net/gnome-settings-daemon. In the first I've found meta-information for packaging but in the package but in the second I
<alexarnaud> don't find where is the code related to the schema, maybe I missunderstand something.
<didrocks> alexarnaud: there is no real code, it's just files shipped. You should have a .install file matching the name in gnome-settings-daemon
<Laney> https://imgur.com/gallery/VfbmE1N
<willcooke> :D
<qengho> 'sup, y'all?
<didrocks> hey qengho! Happy new year
<willcooke> hey qengho, andyrock
<willcooke> HNY
<qengho> Thanks, didrocks, will. Happy new year.
<didrocks> thanks!
<attente> happy new year!
<didrocks> hey attente! happy new year to you too! :)
<willcooke> hey attente, HNY
<attente> didrocks, willcooke, thanks!
<desrt> happy new years, desktop folks
<didrocks> same to you desrt :)
<mpt> âAre you sure that you wish to remove this Ubuntu Web Account?â
<mpt> Everywhere else itâs called an âOnline Accountâ, except that dialog
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night!
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys :)
<Laney> laters!
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<willcooke> gniht
<willcooke> urg
<willcooke> gnight
<attente> g'nite!
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-05
<hikiko> Hello!
<duflu> hikiko: Hello. Happy new Tuesday :)
<hikiko> haha :)
<hikiko> happy new Tuesday duflu :D
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<didrocks> good morning pitti !
<alexarnaud> hello all !
<didrocks> hey alexarnaud
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> re didrocks
<pitti> bonjour seb128 ! *hug*
<seb128> pitti, guten tag! *hug*
<pitti> seb128: est-ce que tu sais encore comment Ã  travailler ? :-)
<seb128> pitti, non, plus vraiment, c'est un peu difficile de m'y remettre ! et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: pareil -- deux semaines sans IRC Ã©tait reposant :)
<seb128> oui, ici aussi :-)
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> good morning larsu
<seb128> hey larsu
<larsu> morning didrocks and seb128! Ãa va?
<seb128> larsu, oui ! et toi ?
<larsu> good!
<larsu> hm, no breakfast. Think I have to go shopping :/
<larsu> but it's -8Â°
<didrocks> larsu: Ã§a va, it's still warm here
<larsu> good for you!
<larsu> ;)
<larsu> ok I think I'll dare anyway. bbiab
<seb128> good luck!
<texou_> seb128: pitti ah mais vous parlez en fr ici? je savais pas moi :D j'aurais pu faire ca avec didrocks :D
<didrocks> good morning texou_
<texou_> didrocks: c'est permis donc?
<texou_> :D
<texou_> hello
<didrocks> texou_: no, it's more an inside joke with some people speaking french, but we don't tend to do more than "salut, comment Ã§a va ?"
<texou_> ah ok
<texou_> :D
<texou_> I was surprised indeed
<pitti> texou_: j'appends franÃ§ais depuis une annÃ©e et demi, mais c'est encore mal :)
<seb128> bonjour texou ;-)
<pitti> texou_: "apprends"
<texou_> pitti: oh reading what you wrote I didn't know
<texou_> you had a good French
<pitti> texou_: je suis allemand
<pitti> texou_: merci :)
<texou_> oh ok
<pitti> texou_: franÃ§ais est la langue officielle d'Ã©quipe du bureau :)
<texou_> ah ok I didnt know this  :D
<pitti> texou_: (this is a running gag)
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> seb128, Community Council meeting is this Thursday.  I'm not here.  Can you lead it?  And we'll find someone to support you?
<willcooke> or I can ask mhall119 to move it
<seb128> willcooke, hey, "lead it"? what does that involve?
<seb128> at what time is tyha
<seb128> that
<willcooke> lead = answer their questions
<willcooke> see mail to Desktop mailing list.
<willcooke> 1700 UTC
<seb128> huum
<seb128> should be ok if it fits in half an hour
<willcooke> oki, understood.
<willcooke> mhall119 when you're online let's discuss ^^
<seb128> willcooke, mhall119, oh in fact it should be fine
<seb128> we are utc+1 in winter, I always get confused
<willcooke> ohh
<willcooke> yeah
<seb128> so it's 6pm european, which is fine
<seb128> I though it was 7pm
<willcooke> thanks seb128, much appreicated
<willcooke> *appreciated
<seb128> yw!
<larsu> morning willcooke!
<willcooke> Hey larsu, how goes?
<larsu> willcooke: now that I have food and tea, much better!
<willcooke> Thanks for the email yesterday.  Told legal not our problem :)
<larsu> how are you?
 * willcooke is in need to yea
<larsu> willcooke: ya, srlsy. Wicked
<willcooke> tea
<Laney> hello!
<larsu> hi Laney! How goes?
<Laney> hey larsu!
<Laney> it's going well thanks
<willcooke> morning Laney
<Laney> some friends from the states came to visit and stay with us last minute
<Laney> so did some hanging out and pub last night
<Laney> how are you?
<Laney> hey willcooke
<larsu> neat!
<larsu> I'm great, thanks. Just had to go hunt for food in the cold (but wasn't as bad as expected)
<Laney> ooh minus degrees still
<Laney> do you have snow?
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<didrocks> good morning Laney
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<larsu> Laney: nope. Just the cold
<larsu> guten Tag pitti!
<pitti> hello larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> gut gut
<larsu> kalt!
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks and pitti!
 * Laney is feeeeeeeeeeeeling fine
<Laney> who knows what the autopkgtest delta in gvfs is about?
<seb128> dunno
<Laney> drops needs-root and adds sudo
<pitti> Run tests through sudo starting as normal user, so that it can find a
<pitti>       non-root user.
<pitti> that?
<pitti> ah, yes
<Laney> yeah
<andyrock> morning all
<seb128> hey andyrock! happy new year
<pitti> Laney: this is a bit irky indeed, I don't have a really good idea about that
<andyrock> seb128: happy new e
<andyrock> *year
<pitti> Laney: tests/gvfs-testbed walks upwards its parents until it finds a non-root parent and then runs tests as that
<pitti> Laney: but this is rather specific for sudo (which we use), and doesn't work in Debian's CI
<Laney> pitti: they don't have a sudoable user there?
<pitti> right
<Laney> could that be fixed?
<pitti> Debian recently changed to using LXC testbeds
<pitti> but I don't have much insight into that (that's terceiro's area)
<pitti> Laney: it might also be possible to fix gvfs-testbed itself to detect a normal user a different way
<pitti> Laney: is that our only remaining delta now?
<Laney> pitti: It could be just dropping libbluray-dev
<pitti> Laney: ah, the splitting out of -goa is obsolete now?
<Laney> yeah, we discussed that in november
<Laney> can keep this test stuff for now though
<Laney> but otherwise I would be okay with committing the B+R for -goa to svn
<seb128> Laney, pitti, the conclusion to goa was that the split was obsolete then?
<Laney> ye
<seb128> (fine with me, when I asked I was unsure if we should move the new backend out or merge goa back in the main package)
<seb128> cool
<Laney> pitti: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/patch-dump/0001-adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud-Fix-typo-in-path-to-system-.patch might interest you ;-)
<pitti> Laney: whoops, thanks! applied
<Laney> np, thank you!
<Laney> grr
<Laney> me no get lightdm any more
<Laney> it seems to be running though
<Laney> and I typed my password and a compiz process appaeared
<Laney> :|
<Laney> compiz process but nothing on screen, that is
<Laney> logs look normal to me
<hikiko|ln> Laney, try to remove .compiz-1/
<Laney> hey hikiko|ln
<Laney> lightdm itself doesn't come up
<hikiko|ln> oh
<Laney> but accepts input...
<Laney> driver?
<hikiko|ln> :s
<Laney> tried an older kernel
 * Laney tries nvidia instead of nouveau
<hikiko|ln> i guess if it was the driver module you would see an error in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<hikiko|ln> (not sure)
<Laney> well it does load
<hikiko> mmm
<hikiko> usually when you install the nvidia driver you have to configure xorg too
<hikiko> but you would see an error if you had to configure it
<hikiko> maybe it's not xserver related at all, no idea :(
<hikiko> oh Laney ! maybe you didn't blacklist nouveau?
<Laney> hikiko|ln: erm! not on purpose
<Laney> it was working earlier this morning, then I restarted to test an update and no more
<Laney> nvidia gives me lightdm but no session :/
<hikiko|ln> oh
<hikiko|ln> then try the brutal:
<Laney> Compiz (opengl) - Fatal: glXQueryExtensionsString is NULL for screen 0
<Laney> Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0".
<hikiko|ln> rm .config/dconf/user (but this will start unity in default settings)
<hikiko|ln> oh
<hikiko|ln> you are missing nvidia-glx :)
<hikiko|ln> and you can't create opengl context
<Laney> ah hang on
<Laney> nvidia didn't load
 * Laney sucks at X stuff :)
<Laney> [  106.944154] mtrr: no MTRR for f1000000,e00000 found
<Laney> [  106.962364] nvidia: Unknown symbol mtrr_del (err 0)
<Laney> [  106.962475] nvidia: Unknown symbol mtrr_add (err 0)
<Laney> [  106.994371] nvidia: Unknown symbol mtrr_del (err 0)
<Laney> [  106.994482] nvidia: Unknown symbol mtrr_add (err 0)
<hikiko|ln> Laney, if you have another window manager or de like xfce you could modify .xinitrc and start the other de with startx
<hikiko|ln> then you would know for sure if the problem is on x
<hikiko|ln> or in lightdm
<hikiko|ln> let me see
<hikiko|ln> mmm Laney did you compile the nvidia driver yourself?
<davmor2> Laney: man have you not figured this out yet??? Nvidia hates you, hate it back it works for me ;)
<Laney> hikiko|ln: dkms did
<hikiko|ln> then it should work
<hikiko|ln>  Since Kernel 4.3-rc1 both symbols got removed. Nvidia has to adopt to these changes. If you want to cheat that fact you have to patch those symbols back into your kernel.
<hikiko|ln> https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/893282/304-128-and-kernel-4-3-can-compile-but-cannot-insert-it-mtrr-symbols-related-errors-/
 * Laney tries a 4.2 kernel
<hikiko|ln> should work then :s
<Laney> the error was on 4.3
<hikiko|ln> Laney, maybe you forgot the linux headers for 4.2?
<Laney> i'm now rebooting with an older one
<hikiko|ln> but then it wouldn't compile i guess :s
<Laney> davmor2: bring that sledge hammer when you come round
<Laney> ok, that works...
<hikiko|ln> the hammer?
<hikiko|ln> :D
<Laney> so nvidia is broken with 4.3 and nouveau randomly died too
<Laney> AWESOME!
<hikiko|ln> hahaha
<hikiko|ln> \m/
<davmor2> hikiko|ln: the hammer always works
<hikiko|ln> lol
 * hikiko|ln goes for lunch break
<hikiko|ln> bbiab
<mhall119> willcooke: still need to discuss?
<willcooke> mhall119, I think we're good
<seb128> mhall119, is there any agenda for that meeting?
<mhall119> cool, thanks
<willcooke> mhall119, basically I won't be able to make it, but Seb can cover if it's fairly short
<willcooke> if you have any up-front questions I can try and provide answers over email
<willcooke> but
<willcooke> if it's like the last one, then I think it will be straight forward
<mhall119> seb128: no, it's usually just "How are things going, anything we can help with, what are the plans for this cycle (community wise)"
<seb128> k, same as previous time
<mhall119> yup
<seb128> I'm unsure we have much to contribute
<seb128> but let's see
<seb128> it's basically going to be a copy/paste from the previous one
<willcooke> yeah, what seb128 said
<willcooke> nothing has changed really
<Laney> actually I might have an interesting bone to throw you
 * Laney will keep it a surprise until then :)
<willcooke> yay
<Laney> try not to be too excited
<seb128> Laney, please join the meeting then
 * seb128 bails off and appoint Laney as desktop representative ;-)
<seb128> bails out
<Laney> NOPE
 * Laney sets up a script to type at the right time
<seb128> haha
<mhall119> seb128: willcooke: don't worry about it, it's fairly common for teams to just tell things are going well and there are no problems
<mhall119> it's just good for us to check at least twice a year :)
<seb128> k
<alexarnaud> didrocks: I've passed all my configuration to GSettings, I use
<alexarnaud>      Compiz 0.9.12.0. The window-decorator is not loaded. Do you have
<alexarnaud>      any idea where is problem ?
<alexarnaud> I use the plugin window-decorator, I'm on Mate 1.8
<alexarnaud> I have activated gnome-compatibility module
<didrocks> alexarnaud: maybe the compiz guys can help you with debugging, hikiko ^
<hikiko> hey
<hikiko> alexarnaud, hi
<hikiko> let me read what's the problem
<alexarnaud> hikiko: sorry ?
<alexarnaud> hikiko: do you want the exact message I have ?
<hikiko> yes please :) I was looking at the backlog
<alexarnaud> hikiko: sorry for the late, I take another test
<alexarnaud> *I do
<hikiko> no worries
<hikiko> take your time
<alexarnaud> hikiko: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14410779/
<alexarnaud> hikiko: if you give me only one step to introspect or having more information, I would be verry happy
<hikiko> alexarnaud, the problem is that you start compiz and it stops?
<hikiko> libGL error: pci id for fd 11: 80ee:beef, driver (null)
<hikiko> OpenGL Warning: glFlushVertexArrayRangeNV not found in mesa table
<hikiko> OpenGL Warning: glVertexArrayRangeNV not found in mesa table
<hikiko> OpenGL Warning: glCombinerInputNV not found in mesa table
<hikiko> OpenGL Warning: glCombinerOutputNV not found in mesa table
<hikiko> OpenGL Warning: glCombinerParameterfNV not found in mesa table
<hikiko> OpenGL Warning: glCombinerParameterfvNV not found in mesa table
<alexarnaud> no the problem is the gtk-window-decorator doesn't work
<hikiko> sorry for the paste
<hikiko> these messages make me suspect that something is wrong with the driver
<hikiko> you have nvidia right?
<hikiko> libGL error: core dri or dri2 extension not found
<hikiko> libGL error: failed to load driver: vboxvideo
<hikiko> are you in virtualbox?
<alexarnaud> hikiko: no, I use VM and I have nouveau in Debian system
<hikiko> yes that's probably the problem something with the virtualbox configuration
<alexarnaud> hikiko: yes, maybe I forgot to check an option
<hikiko> it seems that you don't use opengl
<hikiko> I mean you don't have hardware acceleration
<alexarnaud> OK, I'll investigate, thanks a lot!
<hikiko> and the opengl plugin fails
<alexarnaud> hum, it's the first time I have the issue
<hikiko> alexarnaud, make sure you have extensions, 3d acceleration and the guest additions installed
<hikiko> alexarnaud, you could run compiz before in vbox
<hikiko> and now you can't?
<hikiko> (with the same settings)
<hikiko> ?
<alexarnaud> hikiko: no I've recompiled compiz and re-began a VM, maybe I'm wrong in something
<hikiko> alexarnaud, from what I see your compiz is fine the virtualbox configuration is not correct and you can't have opengl running so the opengl plugin of compiz fails and the decorator that uses it fails too
<hikiko> or maybe virtualbox has a very small opengl implementation
<hikiko> you could install mesa-utils
<hikiko> and try to run glxgears
<hikiko> to see if you have opengl or not
<hikiko> and glxinfo
<hikiko> glxinfo | grep -i opengl
<alexarnaud> hikiko: I'm checking
<alexarnaud> hikiko: I've some opengl error
<alexarnaud> hikiko: libGL error: pci id for fd 4: 80ee:beef, driver (null)
<alexarnaud> it seems so that the driver is off
<hikiko> <hikiko> alexarnaud, make sure you have extensions, 3d acceleration and the guest additions installed
<hikiko> I think it's 1 of the 3 :)
<qengho> Oh man, I'm not ready for a meeting.
<desrt> but the meeting is ready for you
<willcooke> I am not ready either, just wrapping up a call
<willcooke> lemme try and multi task
<willcooke> (this won't end well)
<seb128> do it the laney way, get ready while it's happening
<seb128> :-)
 * seb128 is learning from the masters
<larsu> you have another minute!
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  5 15:30:03 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic:
<desrt> \o/ (for attente)
<andyrock> \o
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks, fjkong, happyaron, hikiko, laney, larsu, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark (hols), themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho (hols), robert_ancell (hols)
<larsu> o/
<Laney> how DARE you!
<FJKong> happy new year
<happyaron> hey
<attente> desrt: can't unsee
<didrocks> hey hey
<dgadomski> hey
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey guys
<andyrock> # Trevinho's code reviews
<andyrock> # Reviewed and proposed a patch from community, waiting for Marco +1
<seb128> it's your opportunity to catch up while he's still on vac :-)
<andyrock> ahahahahah
<andyrock> # Support for startup notifications in bamf/unity/dash
<andyrock> I'm almost done with that just need some days more
<andyrock> # eating Italian food
<andyrock> :)
<andyrock> \eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: attente
<attente> hi all
<attente> so from before the break:
<attente> merge proposal for this old unfixable bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1226962
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1226962 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Xenial) "Hotkeys not functional in non-latin keyboard layout" [High,Triaged]
<attente> submitted a fix for an rhashtable bug in the kernel but my patch was superceded D:
<attente> currently doing another iteration on those old upstream gtk patches for menu popup re-factoring
<attente> (eof)
<desrt> attente: lkml = fail.  sorry :(
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> bad luck you didnt get a patch in to the kernel
<willcooke> that would be pretty sweet
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hi.  from before the break, managed to get the dconf release with new APIs out the door and am readying the glib changes to land this week (GSettingsBackendChangeset, and new GSettingsBackend vtable API).
<desrt> spent yesterday mostly getting through email, back to 'real work' today
<willcooke> :)
<desrt> (plus a bit of travel planning, probably)
<desrt> eof.
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> nothing in the desktop area before the break, hopefuly it'll change soon this year :)
<willcooke> :)
<dgadomski> thanks, happy new year everybody
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> Report for a week and half (as took late holidays)
<didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
<didrocks> - released Ubuntu Make 15.12.1 with previously noted improvments
<didrocks> - move Visual Studio Code from web to ide category as it now supports more than just webby stuff (keep backward compatibility)
<didrocks> - enable setting up firefox developer edition as the default browser
<didrocks> - tutoring and following a new contributor for some Unity3D support enhancements
<didrocks> - refactoring tests due to jenkins CI programed death to run in autopktests environment, even the large ones. We can now run all or some tests, even having the same granularity to run only one test or test family in the testbed (using a real ubuntu-desktop install). Collecting and global coverage are also enabled as it was in jenkins, testing ppa, distro or git branch! Thanks pitti for implementing
<didrocks> the autopkgtests side with new options! Now having all this being implemented, it just need a little bit more polish and testing.
<didrocks> - changed build-dep and test build-deps handling to be less hackish
<didrocks> - did multiple fixes caused by various racy code (more visible now that the testbed is slower)
<didrocks> - be more resilient against invalid tar archive
<didrocks> - some fakeroot and new dpkg hook related fixes in xenial
<didrocks> - smallest changes like i18n, making some tests more robustâ¦
<didrocks> Misc:
<didrocks> - unity online scopes removal: fully done, need testing on a fresh system though (and some server-side changes by the online services team)
<didrocks> - plymouth fixes for derivatives and edge cases (only one theme configuredâ¦)
<didrocks> - grub fix for plymouth (in debian git, waiting for the release, soon, you will have some excellent aubergine back in grub!)
<didrocks> - helped on google code in, a lot of times spent on mentoring and tutoring, but 3 new items closed! 3 more on their way.
<didrocks> - various AA tasks
<didrocks> - Atom.io PR finally reviewed, did small fixes and reproposed. Still waiting on the github guys.
<didrocks> - gave some help to the a11y community on compiz packaging for debian/knoppix. I wonder if TheMuso, as it's more his field, can give a hand to them here.
<didrocks> .
<pitti> didrocks: ubuntu make tests> \o/  congrats for implementing this!
<didrocks> thanks again to you pitti for the 2 small additionals options. Were really useful! :)
<didrocks> pitti: I'll show you the setup, can be of interest :)
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> I will re-install my 16.04 test machine from scratch this week to test
<didrocks> oh nice, keep me posted!
<happyaron> didrocks: have some rest, :)
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> hey
<FJKong> no new bug need to fix
<FJKong> sogou IM new feature research :user can adjust frequency candidate words
<FJKong> sync vocabulary defined by user
<FJKong> try Oxide a little bit
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> thanks FJKong
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: happyaron
<happyaron> review of kylin-greeter
<happyaron> fcitx related updates
<happyaron> still working on opencc ABI issue
<happyaron> EOF
<willcooke> thanks happyaron
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> I fixed the problems with the texture states on unity and now the shadows have the color we set through opengl, I am doing small corrections and polishing in the branch before I submit it for review, and I am also fixing some drawing related issues I found here and there while I was implementing the effect eof
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> congrats hikiko
<hikiko> thanks :)
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Getting back into the groove
<Laney> â¢ Update gvfs in eXp + Xenial to 1.27 devel series
<Laney> â¢ Update agda to unstick the haskell transition
<Laney> â¢ Some work on the appstream-dep11 charm (add a few actions, fix some bugs) and some prodding of IS, hoping to get a deadline set on the ticket soon
<Laney> â¢ Arranging travel for FOSDEM (+ some cat herding) and desktop team sprint
<Laney> â¢ Some digging and asking to try to find out the license of the Ubuntu logos
<Laney> â¢ Start to work on merging gstreamer 1.7 devel series which came out over the hols, looks like the mir/hybris patch needs updating again. yesssssss
<Laney> â¢ cheese
<Laney> ð§
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<seb128> cat?
<Laney> cheese
 * willcooke <- meow
<larsu> miau
<seb128> :-)
 * desrt blinks
<larsu> (German cat)
<Laney> U+1F9C0
<seb128> larsu, sounds similar to a french cat!
<larsu> ubuntu font doesn't have it. doesn't exist
<Laney> https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ð§/
<Laney> wtf
<larsu> seb128: French and German cats get along *really* well
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: larsu
 * desrt can see the lovefest from across the ocean
<Laney> the cat enabler is coming tomorrow
<larsu> hey. Not really gotten stuff done after the holidays
<Laney> #catupdates
<seb128> Laney, good news!
<larsu> some admin stuff, some catchup, some bug review
<larsu> some cold :/
<seb128> :-(
<desrt> larsu: but before the break!
<larsu> seb128: it's not too bad
<seb128> tea and honey time!
 * larsu nods
<willcooke> feel better
<willcooke> soon
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> I still don't grok the shadow.
<seb128> hellooo?
<desrt> heh
<willcooke> sorry, was talking in HO
<willcooke> oh, right, qengho.. you're up
<desrt> seb128 wins useful comment award for the meeting :)
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> [insert BADGE here]
<willcooke> hrm, qengho let's come back to you in a mo?
<seb128> was that comment a status update?
<seb128> +1
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: seb128
<qengho> * no chromium lately! They vacationed too!
<qengho> * handle new Cr sandbox in apparmor rules. In apparmor package, not Cr package.
<qengho> * fixing second bug in xdg-utils. 1) desktop files, 2) mime config moved. Merging debian.
<qengho> * making sure grub understands ZFS device names, and understands common fs features. Avoid obvious papercut problems in 16.04.
<seb128> had good holidays, got previous year context wiped out as a side effect, trying to remember how to do this work thing
<seb128> </current status>
<seb128> (or said differently, still dealing with backlog from the holidays)
<qengho> Oh, wow, I think smuxi is screwy.
<willcooke> heh
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Uploaded ALSA userspace 1.1.0 to xenial. All but alsa-lib are through proposed, alsa-lib is being held up on chromium-browser and kde-runtime test failures on armhf. These don't have anything to do with alsa-lib so far as I can tell, so not my problem. :)
<willcooke> * PulseAudio 8.0~rc1 aka 7.99.1 is out, not sure if we will be putting pulseaudio 8 into Xenial. Anyways, testing packages available in ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev/pulse-testing for xenial.
<willcooke> * liba11y-profile-manager, aka the accessibility profile refactor lives, at least in a small degree. This will be my primary focus in the coming weeks.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - Phone: Tested on-demand start-up and shutdown of CUPS daemon. Needs adjustmants in CUPS config and removal of respawning by Upstart.
<tkamppeter> - Phone: Looked into how CI Train process works, working on preparing everything to only need one CI-Train process to get printing onto the phone.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: 1.5.0 upstream release with
<tkamppeter>    - cups-browsed command line options for config option supply via command line and alternative config file, needed for the phone.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Packaging of 1.5.0 with Braille printing support in separate package.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Re-introduce beh (Backend Error Handler) wrapper backend (this time in C and not in Perl) as several users asked for it.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: --version command line option.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Bug fixes on Braille support and foomatic-rip.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> larsu, seb, no snow and cold at X-mas: http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/8150277390/photos/3350850/belvedere-district-on-the-weekend-i?inalbum=belo-horizonte
<willcooke> O_o
<tkamppeter> http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/8150277390/photos/3350849/belvedere-district-on-the-weekend-ii?inalbum=belo-horizonte
<seb128> tkamppeter, no snow here either this year, but not quite the same weather as you have...
<qengho2> Ugh. So much lag.
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: willcooke
<willcooke> Travel arrangements coming together at last
<qengho2> My client will catch up soon. I'm ready.
<willcooke> still waiting to hear re: hackfest
<willcooke> Please fill in that conf spreadsheet asap so I can get the ball rolling on this years confs
<willcooke> I'll be at MWC w/c 22 Feb
<willcooke> Chasing PK1.0 patch
<willcooke> admin
<tkamppeter> willcooke, do I need to enter the OpenPrinting Summit in that spreadsheet, too?
<willcooke> tkamppeter, erm, if you could enter *next* years that would be good so I can get the approval this year and not have to wait until Jan next year
<willcooke> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Meeting - 2016(!!!)-01-05 | Current topic: Any Other Business
<willcooke> I'll be off Thursday
<willcooke> There is a Community Council meeting in the afternoon which Seb and Laney will be at
<seb128> thanks Laney ;-)
<willcooke> :)
<tkamppeter> willcooke, from when to when is FY 2016/2017?
<willcooke> April -> April
<willcooke> but the sooner we get our list in, the better the chance of approval
<willcooke> oki let's wrap.  Thank you everyone
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  5 16:04:47 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-01-05-15.30.moin.txt
<seb128> thanks!
<larsu> snow!
<ricotz> Laney, hi :), I have a feeling providing a proper transitional package for gvfs-backends-goa would be better
<Laney> what is your feeling based on?
<ricotz> Laney, breaking ubuntu-gnome-desktop package and maybe a smooth upgrade from trusty?
<ricotz> *ubuntu-gnome-desktop meta-package
<Laney> ricotz: Not sure there will be any particular upgrade issue, we'll see
<Laney> and the seed is being fixed
<Laney> xnox: btw I remembered how to make germinate-update-metapackage (seeds) work for proposed
<Laney> we were looking at that just before xmas
<Laney> [xenial]
<Laney> dists: xenial xenial-proposed
 * xnox ponders if that should be the default really
<ricotz> Laney, ok
<Laney> ricotz: germinate is currently melting my laptop
<Laney> oh a load of s390x stuff changed
 * Laney assumes that is good
<didrocks> have a good evening everyone!
<Laney> bye didrocks!
<seb128> night didrocks
<didrocks> good evening Laney, seb128
<Mirv> no new Personal images since 20151017.1, or is there another place to fetch them than the edge channel of personal rolling?
<Mirv> my main goal would be to actually install such an image somehow
<Mirv> this is the primary goal. secondary would be to settle for .deb based Unity 8 + Mir experience.
<Mirv> I've a dedicated touch chromebook for this :)
<seb128> Mirv, we stopped those images since they were not an active goal
<seb128> you better install daily ubuntu and install the unity8-desktop-session
<alexarnaud> hikiko: it was sn error with VirtualBox. I fix it only bu unchecking "enable 3d acceleration"
<Mirv> seb128: thanks, ok then, I won't dream yet of those images then :)
<Mirv> seb128: does unity8-desktop-session use Mir by default?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> there is no unity8 x11 session remaining I think
<hikiko> alexarnaud, thanks for sharing! I think that the 3d acceleration works for certain hosts only (some kernel and xserver versions are not supported) glad you fixed it though :)
<alexarnaud> hikiko: I spend so much time on this ! Before the bug doesn't appear. I'm in Debian Sid and I don't know when it come.
<Mirv> thanks again
<hikiko> if the problem occurs when you enable the 3d acceleration only
<Saviq> seb128, since you were trying to help with that at some point - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1313032/comments/9
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1313032 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Compose key is not working in Xubuntu 14.04" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<hikiko> it means that you either don't have the guest additions installed or that for some other reason vbox cannot use the host's driver (the debian sid's driver)
<hikiko> alexarnaud, if you install mesa-utils
<hikiko> and then you run glxgears
<hikiko> do you see the gears?
<seb128> Saviq, thanks
<seb128> good evening desktopers!
<Laney> riiiiiiight laters!
<Laney> bye seb128 !
<alexarnaud> hikiko: yes, I see gears
<ricotz> Laney, thanks for fixing the meta-package
<hikiko> then opengl is working alexarnaud :)
<willcooke> see ya seb128
<willcooke> gnight all
<willcooke> close enough
<alexarnaud> see you tomorrow !
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-06
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey didrocks & desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<dholbach> good morning
<didrocks> hey dholbach
<dholbach> salut didrocks
<flocculant> morning didrocks :)
<didrocks> hey flocculant!
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> good morning larsu
<larsu> how are you didrocks?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks! how about you?
<larsu> good, but about to go to the dentist (already in a cafe next to it) - might not be so good in an hour ;)
<didrocks> argh, good luck!
<larsu> thanks :)
<seb128> hey dholbach larsu
<dholbach> salut seb128
<seb128> I was out getting some food, empty fridge after holidays
<MNTS> Hello, how can I update android-studio installed using ubuntu-make?
<didrocks> MNTS: you should have android studio itself proposing updates
<didrocks> then, you just accept it, you don't need ubuntu make for it, we let the upstream tool doing the update (as it knows better than us)
<alexarnaud> Goodmorning all!
<didrocks> good morning alexarnaud
<MNTS> didrocks: OK I'l check
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> hi didrocks
<Laney> yo yo yo
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> hi didrocks!
<Laney> how's it going?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks! How about you?
<Laney> ooooooooh pretty good
<Laney> got to destroy the christmas tree today
 * Laney bought a saw just for the purpose
<willcooke> ah yes, I need to chop the tree up so the bin men will take it away
<willcooke> which means going in to the shed
<willcooke> with the spiders
<didrocks> sad treeâ¦
<willcooke> meh, I'll take it to the tip myself on August bank holiday
<Laney> it'll be turned into lovely chips
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<willcooke> morning seb128
<Laney> hey seb128
 * Laney meows
<seb128> cat enabled Laney!
<Laney> I forgot what time they are coming and even if it is really today
 * Laney should learn to write things down
<seb128> larsu, so, did you manage to get the nautilus menubar thing done before the holidays?
<willcooke> when you ctrl-W your browser window instead of shift-W
<Laney> and you use lastpass with yubikey 2fa and your keys are missing and you need to sign into ubuntu sso
<Laney> nooooooooOOOooOOOoooOOOOo
<seb128> unfortunate effect of having a name starting with a W :p
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> popping out for early lunch to get a hair cut, bbl
<desrt> moin.
<xnox> google chrome makes unity crash on wily from time to time, making me loose my work =(
<xnox> any thoughts? http://paste.ubuntu.com/14419413/
 * xnox ponders if i should change to some other desktop environment.
 * willcooke - back
<willcooke> xnox, qengho might have an idea
<willcooke> morning desrt
<xnox> qengho, any idea about http://paste.ubuntu.com/14419413/ ? e.g. eventually, from time to time, actions in google chrome crash unity7 which takes all of desktop session with it =(
<desrt> willcooke: hi
<chrisccoulson> xnox, I don't think it's making unity crash - it's making X crash, isn't it?
<chrisccoulson> Don't you get a crash report (or a trace at the end of /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old)?
<xnox> chrisccoulson, i do =)
<xnox> ... but it's not very useful =(
<xnox> chrisccoulson, qengho http://paste.ubuntu.com/14419632/
<Laney> seb128: want to promote gnome-calendar?
<seb128> Laney, hey, can do?
<seb128> ?->!
<seb128> hey desrt
<attente> hi all
<didrocks> good morning attente
<attente> hi didrocks!
<willcooke> morning attente
<attente> morning willcooke
<seb128> hey attente
<seb128> no larsu today?
<attente> hi seb128 :)
<Laney> seb128: woot!
<seb128> Laney, larsu, if you add a custom location to the tz list from u-c-c, the entry is bigger than it should be, do you have any idea if that's a theme or gtk issue?
<Laney> seb128: hmm, wasn't always like that
<Laney> but not sure straight away
<Laney> I hope someone reworks that UI when it's ported to geonames ;-)
<seb128> Laney, the geonames port of u-c-c landed before holidays
<seb128> but unsure if that include that subdialog?
<Laney> oh didn't know
<Laney> can't think where there is another completion entry
<Laney> editable entry even
<Laney> seb128: did you do that promotion?
<seb128> Laney, not yet, did you seed it yet? I wanted to check the issues pointed in the Mir first, but I'm just updating my system from before holidays state
<seb128> getting there ;-)
<Laney> yep
<seb128> oh, we are in sync with Debian now, nice
<Laney> didn't realise there was an extra layer of checking required, I can unseed if you want
<seb128> though I guess that's not going to stay this way
<seb128> no, don't worry
<seb128> there is no extra layer, I just wanted to give a try before running the command
<seb128> just being a bit slow still ;-)
<Laney> might be able to if we can get some solution on the configuration stuff upstream
<Laney> sync that is
<seb128> right
<Laney> will look soon
<seb128> great
<seb128> did we end up having anyone looking at the theme in the context of google code in?
 * Laney checks out what pcre3 done did to break itself
<Laney> dunno
<seb128> I didn't follow up at all what was going on with those contributions
<seb128> since they are not so much on our standard irc/lists
<seb128> still curious to see the outcome :-)
<didrocks> seb128: unfortunately, nothing on the theme
<seb128> didrocks, nobody interested? or just not outcome yet?
<willcooke> I chased the guy who was going to work on it yesterday
<willcooke>  oh
<willcooke> wait
<willcooke> I have a reply...
<willcooke> he's going to start on it real soon now
<seb128> cool
<willcooke> good timing
<seb128> woot
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks for merging samba!
<seb128> I was going to look at that today or tomorrow but didn't find the motivation to start on it yet
<mdeslaur> seb128: np!
<alexarnaud> didrocks: do you knows how compiz manage settings ? I explain me above.
<didrocks> alexarnaud: what do you mean? It's storing them per profile in dconf
<alexarnaud> 0) I've modified the file /usr/share/glib*/schemas/10_compiz-gnome.gschema.override and recompile the gsettings with the apprioriate command
<alexarnaud> 1) I restart lightdm to restart gsettings service
<alexarnaud> 2) I've launch CCSM first time and move from ini to gsettings but my settings doesn't affect Compiz
<alexarnaud> didrocks: yes I can see profile but maybe something I don't know
<didrocks> alexarnaud: weird, you should look if the changes are stored in gsettings/dconf with dconf-editor
<didrocks> should be in org.compiz.profiles
<alexarnaud> didrocks: if I understand, at first time, CCSM/compiz defines default profile with value of override file ?
<didrocks> exactly
<alexarnaud> (override file situated in /usr/share/glib2_*)
<didrocks> (so, it's only once it's launched first that the Default profile is created)
<alexarnaud> OK, maybe I should check better
<alexarnaud> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> alexarnaud: introspect with dconf-editor, it's the best way :)
<didrocks> yw!
<alexarnaud> ksamak_: I think I'm in the right way for Compiz configuration. I've discussed with didrocks and I understand the way Compiz et GSettings interact but for some reason my test configuration fails
<alexarnaud> didrocks: do you know any tool to generation override from existing profile ? I've searched on net but I didn't find it
<didrocks> alexarnaud: I don't think that exist, you have to do it by hand I guess
<alexarnaud> didrocks: OK
<larsu> seb128: sorry was off because I didn't feel well today. Nautilus is still in progress :(
<seb128> larsu, no worries, get better!
<seb128> time for some tennis here
<seb128> bbl
<larsu> seb128: enjoy
<didrocks> enjoy seb128
 * didrocks waves good evening and good bye!
<Laney> byeeeeeeeeee!
<didrocks> see you tomorrow Laney :)
<Laney> be good!
<willcooke> gnight all.  Off tomorrow, back Friday.
<Laney> so G_PARAM_CONSTRUCT confuses me a little bit
<Laney> does it mean something like "this object is not valid until this property has been set?"
<Laney> like without it the object is constructed and then g_object_set is called for the passed parameters
<Laney> if the initial value is not user supplied is it okay to just initialise in _init?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-07
<hikiko> hello
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti
<seb128> hey pitti didrocks desktopers
<pitti> bonjour Ã  France !
<seb128> how was your day off?
<seb128> did you have some king cake? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: heh, no, but I did build my NCC 1701D metal sheet model
 * pitti will post pics on G+ today
<pitti> and we did a nice long walk, and I prodded the php and perl transitions a bit
<pitti> they *finally* landed, phew!
<seb128> nice
<dholbach> good morning
<didrocks> hey dholbach
<dholbach> salut didrocks
<seb128> hey dholbach
<dholbach> salut seb128
<seb128> dholbach, Ã§a va bien ?
<dholbach> oui, trÃ¨s bien - et toi?
<seb128> oui :-)
<Laney> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<hikiko> hi Laney :p
<didrocks> good morning Laney, hey hikiko!
<hikiko> hi didrocks :)
<seb128> hey Laney hikiko
<hikiko> hi seb128 :)
<Laney> alright dudes
<Laney> what's going on?
<seb128> reviewing recent bugs and e.u.c entries
<seb128> but I might switch to some sponsoring/merging in a bit
<seb128> what about you?
<Laney> seeing if slomo fixed gstreamer yet
<Laney> they broke totem :-o
 * didrocks enhances umake code for maintainability + plymouth upload + some google code in reviews
<seb128> not cool!
<Laney> didrocks your code could not be better
<seb128> didrocks, seems like the plymouth merge is settling down, good work ;-)
<Laney> I had it printed up as wallpaper
<Laney> and now it is covering my bedroom
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> seb128: thanks! it could have been way worse, indeed :-)
<didrocks> Laney: ahah :p
<didrocks> Laney: I'm quite happy to be able to run tests in an autopkgtests test bed without loosing any functionality :)
<didrocks> I just need to add some shortcuts to runtests so that you don't have to specify all options when running from a branch
<Laney> seb128: looks like you missed the gnome-calendar source promotion?
<Laney> thx for doing it!
<seb128> I hate those tools
<seb128> uw
<seb128> yw
<Laney>  gnome-calendar | 3.18.2.1-1      | xenial          | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
<Laney>  gnome-calendar | 3.18.2.1-1      | xenial/universe | source
<seb128> why does it let you promote binaries without the corresponding source?
<Laney> is it an extra flag or something?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> which I keep forgetting
<Laney> annoying
<seb128> that should be the default
<Laney> you want to write some python? :)
<seb128> is it technically right to promote a binary without the source?
<seb128> lol
<Laney> for demoting
<Laney> which is the same tool right?
<seb128> right
<seb128> but it could be clever and look at the component :p
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I guess it could do this check
<didrocks> I guess even for promoting
<didrocks> the default is to put binary package name
<didrocks> not source package name
<Laney> gooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOoooo python coders
<seb128> well, if you promote a binary you likely want the source in main as well
<didrocks> (because if you put the source package name, it means, you want all binary packages to be promoted)
<didrocks> but
<didrocks> I agree it should prevent to promote a binary if the source isn't promoted
<seb128> so technically it could guess at least warn you that you miss the source
<didrocks> I would go further than a warning :)
<seb128> right
<Laney> binary in main but source not in main is always wrong AFAIK
<seb128> anyway, fixed that one
<seb128> Laney, thanks for pointing it out
<Laney> like you can't do restricted to main either
<didrocks> seb128: and yeah +1 on the tool being confusing
<didrocks> I keep using --help each time
<didrocks> because I don't remember if it's the source or binary
<Laney> so it could special case a binary override to main to have a look at the source too
<Laney> maybe if I was in the team I would be motivated to look at such things
<Laney> :) :) :) :) :)
<didrocks> I'm happy to add it on my TODO
<didrocks> just need to remember about it
<Laney> WHAT
<Laney> the christmas tree guys only took one of the halves
<czajkowski> Laney: clearly needed to add a ribbon on it :)
 * Laney burns it
 * didrocks is really happy with the new 2 contributors (a lot of force and back, and I even guide/add some code, but it's nice to see people very productive ;))
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> are you going to give anyone commit access?
<didrocks> Laney: if one stick around, yeah :)
<didrocks> (there was a good one I almost gave commit access, but then, he had some health issues and couldn't really focus on this anymore :/)
<didrocks> there is a lot of "just one contribution" which is mostly implementing their preferred framework
<didrocks> those who go deeper (like the 2 guys right now) are quite rare
<andyrock> morning
<Laney> andyrock: LIES!
<czajkowski> Laney: at fosdem this year?
<Laney> czajkowski: aye
<Laney> looking forward to a bar packed full of geeks?
<Laney> hope they have piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink killer again
<czajkowski> :D
<Laney> czajkowski: you doing anything in particular there or just attending?
<czajkowski> Laney: just attending
<czajkowski> a weekend of waffles, beer and good chats
<czajkowski> can't go wrong really :)
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> what eurostar you got on the way out?
 * Laney is on 12:58
<czajkowski> Laney: not sure yet need to book that as may be coming from the US, still working on travel for Q1 trying to plan out 3 months is a lot of work :P)
<Laney> you jetsetter
<czajkowski> Laney: ah dude gettit it all over and done with in 3 months as getting married in April I need time off then :)
<Laney> czajkowski: ah, you should be worrying about whether auntie jean can sit near to great uncle robert after the sherry incident in 1973 then
<czajkowski> Laney: I'll deal with that in March, can't be that hard to work out and the majority of my issues is sitting people side by side and not cause a war brek out with discussions of which editor to use Vim or Emacs or which distro to use. the majority coming are geeks!
<Laney> that
<Laney> is a cool table name theme
<hikiko|ln> oh noes i forgot the status :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, did you see that the new firefox failed to build on arm64 with "webrtc/trunk/build/build_config.h:160:2: error: #error Please add support for your architecture in build/build_config.h"?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm aware of that
<seb128> k
<seb128> that blocks it in proposed
<desrt> attente: good morning
<attente> desrt: good morning
<didrocks> hey desrt, attente
<attente> hi didrocks
<attente> seb128: hey, can you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/unity-settings-daemon/1226962/+merge/280783 when you have time?
<seb128> hey attente, sure
<attente> seb128: awesome, thanks!
<seb128> tkamppeter, cups is missing from current xenial images is that a known issue?
<seb128>  cups-filters : Depends: liblouisutdml-bin but it is not installable
<seb128> tkamppeter, seems like cups-filters (which is in main) depends on liblouisutdml-bin which is in universe
<Laney> brrrr cold today
<seb128> wet here
<seb128> it keeps raining :-/
<didrocks> it was raining like crazy here, now it's okish
<alexarnaud> hey all !
<Laney> yeah same
<Laney> some blue sky now and everything
<Laney> probably why it got cold
<alexarnaud> seb128, didrocks: it's the same weather at Paris
<didrocks> alexarnaud: it's not unusual for Paris though ;-)
<alexarnaud> Laney: geeks are in garage or cellar, the blue sky is not useful here lol
<Laney> heh
<Laney> my cellar is pretty grim
<Laney> sounds about right
<desrt> no willcooke today?
<didrocks> desrt: he said on Monday's email that he might not be around today (and the calendar seems to confirm)
<andyrock> desrt: he's off today
<desrt> ah.  right.
 * desrt might also need to disappear for (what is likely to be the better part of) the afternoon to wait in line at the passport office
<desrt> m-f 9-5, go figure.
<seb128> larsu, so, what's the status of the nautilus menubar? how much more work needed before it's ready?
<larsu> seb128: yes but I think I'll have something tomorrow
<larsu> this whole view separation in nautilus is really annoying
<seb128> k, great
 * Laney remembers to check the date on his password
<Laney> passport
<Laney> !!!
<Laney> password's date is quite old too though :-/
<Laney> the envelope that I thought had it in instead contained a laptop hard drive
<seb128> somebody played a joke on you!
<didrocks> interesting things at Laney's office :)
<didrocks> it seems you have a weird way of organizing your papers ;)
<Laney> doh
<seb128> Laney, iz CC meeting time :p
<Laney> oh yeah
<qengho> The bureaucracy in the US is usually not too bad, but *renewing* an existing passport for my 7-year-old son a few days ago was surprisingly complicated.
<tkamppeter> seb128, this is already fixed in the Debian repo of cups-filters. As soon as OdyX uploads the next package it syncs into Ubuntu with the Braille part split into a separate binary package.
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, meanwhile the xenial images have no printing stack
<didrocks> time to go guys, have a good evening!
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for joining the CC meeting
<seb128> have a nice evening!
<didrocks> yw seb128, you too :)
<seb128> thanks Laney as wel
<seb128> l
<Laney> ah crap
<Laney> dmb now
<seb128> lol
 * Laney thinks seb128 should nominate for the TB
<seb128> nah
<seb128> you need to be a big fish to do that
<seb128> Laney, you should!
<Laney> I'm just a krill
<seb128> and modest with that :-)
<Laney> a krill that is going to climb tonight
<Laney> raaaaaaargh
<seb128> enjoy!
<ogra_> and beware of the whales !
<seb128> no tennis for me tonight, windy, rainy, cold
<Laney> the seb128s
<Laney> and the ogra_s
<Laney> an even bigger whale!
<seb128> lol
<ogra_> :D
<Laney> ooh it's going to be cold tonight
<Laney> might wear my gloves on the bike for the first time
<alexarnaud> tkamppeter: what's about package cups and braile ? Is it the same as we have in Debian ?
<alexarnaud> *braille
<seb128> alexarnaud, yes, cups is in sync, see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cups
<alexarnaud> seb128: good news
<seb128> alexarnaud, do you work on cups?
<alexarnaud> seb128: what's is it not always the case ? Why some package like Compiz or Corebird are uploaded in Debian and sync after ? As I know Debian does'nt provide sync from Ubuntu bacause it's the root, is'nt it ?
<Laney> riiiiiiiight later!
<Laney> s
<alexarnaud> seb128: no but I'm aware of braille development on it.
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<alexarnaud> seb128: a friend's and Hypra collegue provide the braille printer to youpi that create the bridge in cups
<seb128> alexarnaud, sometime we are in direct sync, sometime Ubuntu do change (or package newer versions than Debian)
<seb128> but yeah, ideally we are in sync
<tkamppeter> alexarnaud, yes, it is part of the cups-drivers package upstream.
<tkamppeter> alexarnaud, s/cups-drvers/cups-filters/.
<alexarnaud> good nigth everyone, see you online !
<davmor2> Laney oh pretty the phone shows as a phone in the launcher now \o/
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-08
<dobey> anyone have any ideas as to why intel driver might cause X BadMatch/BadPixmap crashes, but only in Nautilus?
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> morgen pitti!
<pitti> hey larsu, how are you?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey larsu pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<larsu> pitti: good thanks! How are you?
<pitti> larsu: gut, danke!
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey didrocks ;-)
<larsu> hi didrocks!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> dobey, thanks for transitioning software-center to CI landing and merges the ubuntu changes back to the upstream vcs
<dobey> seb128: sure. was glad to finally get that done yesterday :)
<seb128> :-)
 * seb128 starts wondering if upgrading nautilus was good idea
<didrocks> seb128: for the icon size or something else?
<didrocks> I still find the move action to be confusing btw (especially if you move files to a network share)
<seb128> quite some of the changes feel like regressions
<seb128> upstream is reverting some of those in 3.20 so they seem to agree
<seb128> like they dropped the context menu to delete and are restoring it
<seb128> same for the one to create symlinks
<seb128> the "in toolbar" copy dialog is less obvious
<seb128> the icons are too big
<seb128> the menubar patch is way more work that I was expecting
<didrocks> the copy icon is clearly not obvious
<seb128> like larsu has been on it for almost a month, I think we could have worked on more useful things
<seb128> they change in trunk to open the popup copy dialog automatically
<didrocks> even after knowing where it is, I do the action and always have this 0.5s "did I really start copying/moving?"
<seb128> to workaround a bit the fact that it's not obvious
<seb128> I'm going to backport that and see how it feels
<didrocks> yeah, that one (and icon size) are the most obvious issues to me
<seb128> but yeah, the icons size and the copy UI are the ones that concerns me most atm
<didrocks> I even didn't notice about the delete removal
<didrocks> but I either use del or command line
<seb128> same here
<didrocks> so not a good example :)
<seb128> same for symlinks
<seb128> I never use those
<seb128> or at least not in nautilus
<didrocks> yeah, I wonder if people use this
<seb128> they are more "tech" work to me
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> and I use nautilus to manage my datas a bit
<seb128> like move photos around
<seb128> or clean up my downloads folder
<didrocks> yeah, I wonder about the delete in context menu
<didrocks> I never see "regular users" using the context menu
<dobey> i just want my nautilus to not crash arbitrarily
<seb128> dobey, does it do that in xenial for you?
<dobey> seb128: haven't tried xenial. it does in trusty, i think because of intel drivers. i sometimes get BadPixmap crashes in it :(
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> I'm not aware of that one
<willcooke> morning desktoppers
<willcooke> seb128, how did the CC catch up go?  All ok?
<dobey>          buf = "BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter)", '\000' <repeats 15 times>
<dobey> :(
<seb128> dobey, :-/
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, hey, it went very well, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, didrocks and Laney joined
<seb128> didrocks gave some updates on the online dash status and the code in
<seb128> and Laney discussed a bit gnome-software
<willcooke> super, thanks seb128, didrocks Laney
<willcooke> I will go find the logs actually...
<seb128> otherwise they seemed happy to know that we have active contributors on GNOME and other things and not much frictions
<seb128> k
<didrocks> yw
<dobey> i don't know where the crash reports are going though :(
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> happy first friday!
<dobey> hmm, nautilus package has 1800 open bugs :(
<larsu> Laney: happy end of first week!
<dobey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1071155 is similar anyway
<ubot5> Error: launchpad bug 1071155 not found
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday!
<dobey> hrmm, 9 open bugs in nautilus for sig 5 in _XReply()
<dobey> and 5 of them have bug heat > 160
<dobey> other 4 are at 10
<seb128> I think the issue is that not many people know how to deal with those bugs
<seb128> they don't feel like gtk/gnome issues
<dobey> they are a bit of a pain to debug, yeah
<dobey> really needs someone who knows X well enough, to poke at them
<dobey> not sure who's working on X for us any more though
<seb128> not many people, that's part of the issue
<seb128> tjaalton is but I don't think he has enough free slots to look at those
<willcooke> what seb128 said
<dobey> :(
<tjaalton> dobey: happens only on intel? install the xenial driver, works fine in wily
<davmor2> willcooke: the phone has a phone icon now when you connect it oh pretty :D
<dobey> tjaalton: i'm running the wily kernel already. also it works fine on my intel laptop. it only crashes on my workstation
<tjaalton> dobey: no, intel X driver
<tjaalton> or try forcing uxa in xorg.conf
<tjaalton> what generations are those?
<hikiko> hi
<dobey> when's the wily xorg going to end up in trusty for HWE?
<tjaalton> once libdrm is past NEW
<dobey> workstation is haswell
<tjaalton> is when the rest is getting pushed
<dobey> not sure on the laptop, i think also haswell
<dobey> maybe ivybridbge
<tjaalton> ok
<tjaalton> my desktop is ivybridge, no issues there
<tjaalton> on wily
<dobey> i don't recall if it was crashing for me when i had ivybridge in my workstation
<willcooke> davmor2, nice!!
<tjaalton> what's the resolution on workstation?
<dobey> 4k
<tjaalton> that could be it
<dobey> i had an nvidia card in for a week, and nautilus didn't crash on it
<dobey> but had enough other problems with that, that i just returned it
<tjaalton> so try forcing uxa, or pull the X driver from xenial
<seb128> Laney, is there anything keeping gnome-calendar in main? it doesn't seem to be on the current iso yet?
<seb128> I guess it's on your todolist?
<Laney> I seeded it
<Laney> so the Task presumably
<seb128> k
 * Laney runs ./update
<Laney> you can't do that until after the promotion
<Laney> so easy to lose it if there is a gap
<seb128> that's a bit backward
<seb128> because usually we do the promotion once something tries to pull the binary in
<Laney> seed -> component mismatch -> promote -> ./update
<seb128> but oh well, it's minor
<seb128> k
<seb128> mitya57, hey, thanks for updating nautilus in decembre, you didn't use the packaging vcs though? (there was commit/not released work that you seem to not have included and your version is not in there) or did you just forgot to push?
<seb128> larsu, I'm working on a nautilus update, how is the menubar change coming? can I give it a test build even if it's not ready it to be proposed? just to see how it's working
<larsu> seb128: I'm done with the action rewiring and am writing xml right now
<seb128> k
<larsu> you'll need a gtk patch too
<larsu> let me open a bug for that one first
<seb128> danke
<seb128> is that something upstream is likely to agree on?
<seb128> or an ubuntu hack?
<larsu> upstream
<larsu> well, depends on desrt ;)
<seb128> k
<desrt> hi
<Laney> hi desrt!!!
<willcooke> morning desrt
<desrt> Laney!
<larsu> morning desrt :)
<desrt> willcooke: g'morn
<desrt> hihi larsu
<desrt> and hello didrocks and seb128 :)
<seb128> hey desrt
<didrocks> good morning desrt
<larsu> desrt: since you're here - care to look at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760312 ?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 760312 in .General "gtkapplication: export windows directly as action groups" [Normal,New]
<seb128> bah
<larsu> seb128: that's the patch I was talking about ^
<seb128> bzr bd-do doesn't like lp:~ubuntu-desktop/nautilus/ubuntu it seems
<seb128> UnicodeEncodeError
<seb128> grrrr at python
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<didrocks> the usual :)
<desrt> larsu: 'hi' was a subtle way of saying "i hope i get a bug link" :)
<larsu> desrt: oh. I read it as "hi"
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you? (and where?)
<desrt> larsu: and yet i got my bug link =)
<larsu> desrt: totally unrelated :P
<desrt> pitti: good morning :D
<desrt> pitti: i am before coffee, so i have difficulty answering "how are you" :)
<desrt> and i am in toronto, where it is still very dark indeed
<Laney> isn't it 05:20?
<desrt> that is correct.
 * Laney screams
<desrt> larsu: are you sure this patch correctly handles the remoteactiongroup/platform_data stuff?
<larsu> desrt: why would that have anything to do with it?
<desrt> because GtkApplicationWindow doesn't wire that through, iirc
<desrt> i'll do the review in the bug...
<larsu> ugh, are you sure?
<desrt> fairly sure, yes.
 * desrt hopes that 5am pre-coffee reviewing doesn't come back to bite her
<larsu> desrt: UNITY!
<larsu> (thanks for the review)
<desrt> "needs word" is certainly less dangerous than "accepted-commit_now"
<larsu> heh
<larsu> desrt: the gist: I want to export additional actions from inside a subclass of GtkApplicationWindow
<desrt> amusing story of the day: (due to various online posts drawing equivalences between them) google translate is now confusing "russian federation" with "mordor", "russians" with "occupiers" and "sergey lavrov" with "sad little horse"
<desrt> larsu: why can't the subclass simply add the actions like everyone else does?
<larsu> desrt: that sounds horribly inefficient...
<desrt> what kind of actions are we talking here, and how many?
<larsu> but I'd rather do that than deal with the platform data mess
<larsu> desrt: normal amount, nothing fancy
<desrt> use action entries?
<desrt> reimplementing the actiongroup infra is annoying and awkward and you're probably going to get it wrong
<desrt> (for reasons like platform_data...)
<larsu> desrt: hm? The actions already exist
<larsu> in some widget deeper down
<larsu> I don't like that reimplementing the interface doesn't work
<larsu> seems like something that totally should work
<desrt> we could possibly detect if you also reimplement RemoteActionGroup for yourself...
<desrt> or we could implement it directly on the window itself, as well
<desrt> that almost makes sense, in fact
<larsu> yeah.... clearly
 * larsu shall not shave this yak now though to not make seb128 more impatient ;)
<larsu> desrt: thanks for catching this anyway
<desrt> if you want to do the remoteactiongroup impl on the window itself and do a patch for that, i'd be happy to look at it... provided you give a better answer on the "why can't you just use actions" question
<desrt> because i agree that it would be theoretically nicer
<desrt> same argument could be made for GApplication itself
<larsu> why didn't you do it this way in the first place i wonder?
<desrt> it used to be possible to provide your own action group
<desrt> maybe still is, although very much deprecated, and for a long time
<desrt> it was the early days before we figured out what was really a good pattern here
<larsu> ah, right
<desrt> and before GActionMap existed
<andyrock> morning all
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<hikiko> Trevinho|OFF,
<hikiko> andyrock,
<hikiko> I have a question
<andyrock> yup
<hikiko> without any of my code
<hikiko> the old shadows update all the time
<hikiko> it's like a busy loop
<hikiko> do you know that it was intentional or there's something that marks regions as dirty etc?
<hikiko> i mean
<hikiko> that shouldn't happen anyway
<andyrock> i don't think it's intentional
<hikiko> but do you know why it happens?
<andyrock> maybe it's a workaround for something
<andyrock> to be honest nope
<hikiko> mmm then I have to fix this first, otherwise unity will calculate the shape (and perform convolution) at almost every frame with the new shadows...
<hikiko> andyrock, Trevinho|OFF ignore :) it was a program I left open that was causing the frequent updates!
<didrocks> pitti: probably a very stupid question, but how can I trigger an autopkgtests using the test request format?
<pitti> didrocks: ah, ATM you can't, I'm afraid; firewall limits that to snakefruit (or do you have access there?)
<didrocks> pitti: I do have access here, ~ubuntu-archive
<pitti> didrocks: ah
<didrocks> but I don't see anything handy in run-autopkgtest --help
<pitti> didrocks: now, I didn't yet expose those in run-autopkgtest
<didrocks> ah, I'm not that crazy :)
<pitti> amqp-publish -u amqp://autopkgtest-worker:SECRET@10.25.180.81 -r  debci-trusty-amd64 -b 'ubuntu-make-master {"test-git": "https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make.git", "ppas": ["ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make-builddeps", "ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make"]}'
<pitti> didrocks: that's what I used for testing back then
<pitti> didrocks: shoudl be straightforward to add it to run-autopkgtest, similar to --ppa
<didrocks> SECRET will be replaced by the right thing in amqp-publish?
<pitti> didrocks: if you want to have a go at it, please do; otherwise I'll try to do that on Monday
<pitti> didrocks: no, I just edited it out for pasting into public IRC :)
<didrocks> pitti: well, I can have a look, but let me ensure it can runs properly first :)
<didrocks> ok ;)
<didrocks> run*
<didrocks> pitti: also, that I can play with the env variables and such, let's see
<didrocks> between that and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure#Test_request_format, should be workable :)
<pitti> didrocks: for experiments it would be good if you could skip armhf for now, as that's horribly swamped
<pitti> didrocks: go nuts on x86, they have plenty of capacity
<pitti> . o O { me is *sooo* happy to be able to say that now, since Tuesday âº }
<didrocks> haha! ok :) I just need one arch anyway for testing this
 * didrocks looks fot amqp-publish
<didrocks> for*
<didrocks> pitti: amqp-tools isn't installed on snakefruit, though?
<pitti> didrocks: no, it's not; I ran that from my adt control instance
<pitti> didrocks: I can run stuff for you if you wwant
<didrocks> pitti: well, it was easier for me to implement the options, I did this :p
<didrocks> I saw the job running in the web ui, but then, it seems to fail
<pitti> didrocks: ah, just got a worker failure mail
<didrocks> the issue is that I can't find the logs back
<pitti> W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make-builddeps/ubuntu/dists/xenial/main/source/Sources  404  Not
<pitti> +Found
<pitti> didrocks: right, sorry; this counts as a "tmpfail", i. e. it thinks that this is a temporary glitch
<didrocks> yeah, I think if test-git or test-bzr are provided, we shouldn't force a ppa or trigger
<pitti> didrocks: so it retries instead of posting the log
<pitti> didrocks: you don't need a trigger, but you need a PPA
<didrocks> no, it's a real failure, I don't have anything in the ppa for the current devel serie
<pitti> let's please not clutter the ubuntu result container for these
<didrocks> so the archive doesn't exit
<didrocks> exist*
<pitti> ah, makes sense
<didrocks> hum, should I do a dummy upload in the ppa then?
<pitti> didrocks: usual workaround is to copy (or upload) a package into it and delete it again
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> didrocks: upload, or copy-package with binaries
<didrocks> can do this
<didrocks> anyway, I tried on trusty then
<didrocks> with the ppas
<didrocks> and same, seems to have failed quite quickly
<didrocks> (the 2 archives exists here)
<didrocks> but I don't see anything in the ui
<pitti> adt-run [13:19:34]: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ apt-source ubuntu-make-master
<pitti> E: Unable to find a source package for ubuntu-make-master
<didrocks> making sense :)
<pitti> this looks like this didn't get the git argument
<didrocks> but the doc says it won't try to use the "pkg" as a "pkg"
<didrocks> ah
 * didrocks check for typos
 * pitti looks at the full log
<pitti> Received request for package ubuntu-make-master on trusty/amd64; params: {u'ppas': [u'ubuntu-d
<pitti> esktop/ubuntu-make-builddeps', u'ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make'], u'test_git': u'https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make.git'}
<pitti> didrocks: s/test_git/test-git/
<pitti> did I typo that on the wiki?
<didrocks> I guess you did
<pitti> no, it's ok there
<didrocks> waow
<didrocks> I can't read
<didrocks> indeed, I reopened the page and it's there
<pitti> well, to be fair these pretty well look the same :)
 * pitti hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
<didrocks> ok, so running on trusty
<didrocks> let's see
<pitti> didrocks: I killed all adt-runs for u-make for now, to break the infinite retry loop
<pitti> seems for this kind of operation this needs to become more clever
<didrocks> urgh, sorry for the retry loop on this then :)
<didrocks> did you kill last one?
 * didrocks looks
<didrocks> no, so looking at http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml#pkg-ubuntu-make-master :)
<pitti> didrocks: no need to be sorry; it's  my ongoing quest for minimizing human activity in a system where everything can (and does) fail all the time
<pitti> didrocks: killed that too
<didrocks> pitti: oh?
<didrocks> that one wasn't with the correct parameters?
<didrocks> (my last retry after the fix)
<pitti> didrocks: oh sorry, I thought you said "this one is also old"
<pitti> didrocks: as it already ran for 11 mins
<didrocks> pitti: well, it's installing ubuntu-desktop! :p
 * didrocks reruns
<pitti> ok, running again
<didrocks> pitti: so, then, I should see it stored in http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/, right?
<didrocks> (after the first run)
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14437805/ .. totally trivial command line, eh!
<pitti> didrocks: no, there's no web UI frontend for PPAs right now
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, and that's without the --env parameter still! :p
<pitti> didrocks: if you run it against the ubuntu archive, it'll appear there, but not for PPAs; so far we haven't needed one,  but we could set up something
<didrocks> ok
<pitti> didrocks: no problem -- just start another one with env and let them run in parallel
<didrocks> pitti: oh right, the *cloud*
 * didrocks tries
<didrocks> (done)
<didrocks> this one should only run a pep8 test
<pitti> didrocks: it's fine if you run 10 in parallel occasionally; if you need much more, and it starts blocking things, we need to ask for moar powah
<didrocks> indeed, it will still takes time though until we have real ubuntu-desktop images
<didrocks> pitti: I don't remember, the ppas artefacts archive in swift will be per ppa per release, right?
<didrocks> (so we can remove the vivid one at some point, right?)
<pitti> didrocks: correct
<didrocks> sounds good :)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you don't have "ubuntu-desktop" in d/t/control Depends:, but call apt-get yourself?
<pitti> didrocks: do you call it with $(which eatmydata 2>/dev/null) apt-get ?
<pitti> didrocks: if not, it'll be awfully slow (test Depends: do that automatically)
<didrocks> pitti: ah, I don't, I guess I should. There was a reason I minimize the deps in d/t/control (that was before the holidaysâ¦)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, adding eatmydata
<didrocks> ah yeah, the lines with test deps was getting really long
<didrocks> and I have this "setup" tests
<pitti> didrocks: testbeds have that magic dpkg force-unsafe-io flag in the config, but it doesn't seem to be nearly as fast as eatmydata
<didrocks> and I need to have all them listing the same deps, to reuse the same test bed
<didrocks> that's why I put the dep setup logic in setup (in addition to the other setup parts)
<pitti> WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface yet. Use with caution in scripts.
<pitti> 0 upgraded, 1254 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<pitti> Need to get 534 MB of archives.
<didrocks> yeah, I'm using simple apt, which is fine in trusty and xenial
<pitti> After this operation, 2015 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<pitti> pas mal :)
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> if you want to kill those 2 runs because they will be slow due to no eatmydata, please feel free
<pitti> didrocks: I don't care
<didrocks> I'm adding that to master meanwhile
<didrocks> ok :)
<pitti> let's just let it finish
<pitti> didrocks: queues are empty right now anyway (except arm)
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> pitti: btw, if you are interested in the structure: https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/tree/master/debian/tests
<didrocks> you basically have: pep8/small/medium/large
<didrocks> which are the real tests
<didrocks> (you can pass TESTS="small large" for instance)
<didrocks> no parameter is what we used to have "pep8 small"
<didrocks> collect-coverage is for collecting and archiving global coverage report
<didrocks> custom is used when you set one or more specific tests
<didrocks> like TESTS="tests/small/test_foo.py:Bar.baz tests/â¦"
<didrocks> and TESTS=all runs everything but custom ofc
<didrocks> (well, it runs custom which is skipped)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/blob/master/debian/tests/control is clever -- so you have a separate "setup" job and re-use the testbed for everything
<pitti> didrocks: btw, there's no need to repeat all the stanzas
<pitti> didrocks: as long as the depends:, restrictions: etc. are identical, you can just do
<pitti> Tests: foo bar baz
<didrocks> oh, even better then!
 * didrocks modifies
<pitti> didrocks: wouldn't it be easier to run https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/blob/master/debian/tests/setup-testbed#L17 with "needs-root"?
<pitti> didrocks: calling sudo in tests is a bit meh (if you do it, please call "sudo -n", to avoid eternal hangs because of password questions)
<pitti> didrocks: you can do su -c "commands here" $ADT_NORMAL_USER
<didrocks> ah, there is a variable for this :)
<didrocks> I was going to ask how to not hardcode "ubuntu" for user name
<didrocks> (I still have some commands I don't want as root)
<pitti> meh, apt-get install has some trouble in the test
<didrocks> argh?
 * didrocks looks
<pitti> didrocks: you can't :) (I just looked at the tail -f of the log)
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14437883/
<didrocks> ah ok, so it's not the one running I see (I only see one btw? I maybe typoed the env variableâ¦)
<pitti> didrocks: that's the old one without --env, yes (no "env" in the command line)
<didrocks> hum, I didn't get this kind of no tty issue on my xenial vm at least
<pitti> DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive ?
<didrocks> so, debconf doesn't really like it
<didrocks> yeah, I didn't setup anything for this though here
<didrocks> I wonder if a default changed
<pitti> although wait, this is already set in tests
<pitti> but this doesn't make it through  sudo
<pitti> didrocks: that test run finished now (due to apt-get error), should be in swift now
<pitti> didrocks: which PPA was that against?
<didrocks> pitti: ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make
<didrocks> (as I takes last ppa from the list IIRC to match against)
<pitti> https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial-ubuntu-desktop-ubuntu-make?format=plain
<pitti> sorry, not xenial, trusty
<pitti> didrocks: ah, this one looks happier, but that didn't install -desktop: https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-trusty-ubuntu-desktop-ubuntu-make/trusty/amd64/u/ubuntu-make-master/20160108_134929@/log.gz
<didrocks> ah, they are not stored
 * didrocks was stupidely looking at the first one
<didrocks> so, I can ofc now change the Depends: line
<didrocks> as I have everything in one line
<pitti> didrocks: you can line-break test control just the same way as debian/control, FYI
<didrocks> but that would mean that I don't add needs_root for setup (but I can add -n to sudo)
<didrocks> ah nice :)
<pitti> didrocks: you still need it to configure autologin and stuff though?
<didrocks> yeah, and also the setup does some extra stuff
<didrocks> oh, actually, I didn't really try to setup the testbed that way
<pitti> hah, didrocks is serial-killing workers again :)
<didrocks> as I already had an ubuntu-desktop VM
<didrocks> (the adt one)
<didrocks> and reused that one
<didrocks> so sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop was a noop (only updating the metapacakge)
<didrocks> pitti: I guess I'm going to start now from a cloud image as in the infra
<didrocks> and see what's going on when installing ubuntu-desktop without any tty
<didrocks> (or ssh)
<pitti> didrocks: potential gotcha: test Depends: don't install recommends by default; if you do need them, Restrictions: needs-recommends
<didrocks> pitti: ok, shouldn't be a problem. If I want to install ubuntu-make itself, even from a git repo, it will only try to match the package name, right? not the real version (like, if git changed debian/changelog but it's not released yet?)
<pitti> didrocks: right, test-git is *only* for the test (debian/tests/control); it doesn't get built
<pitti> --env=T --env=E --env=S --env=T --env=S --env== --env=p --env=e --env=p --env=8
<pitti> didrocks: I don't think that was intended
<pitti> didrocks: array vs. string confusion somewhere?
<pitti> didrocks: "env" parameter is a list, not a string
<didrocks> hum, not with adt-run, though?
<didrocks> I had to sue --env="TESTS=medium large"
<didrocks> for instance
<pitti> didrocks: no, but that's what is on the command line
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I checked the wrapper
<didrocks> it's using a string parameter
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. I suppose your run-adutopkgtest change submits it as a string, not a list
<didrocks> so somewhere else in the chain?
<didrocks> ah, it's not passed as such to adt-run?
<pitti> didrocks: it needs to be {"env": ["foo=bar", ...]}
<pitti> not {"env": "foo=bar"}
<pitti> didrocks: so every entry in "env" is passed as --env=value, yes
<pitti> but "every entry" in a string is a character onnly
<pitti> {"test-git": "https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make.git", "ppas": ["ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make-builddeps", "ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make"], "env": "TESTS=pep8"}
<didrocks> ok, I was still puzzled by the adt-run --env="TESTS=medium large" <â¦> format :)
<pitti> didrocks: ^ that's what was in the queue
<didrocks> but ok, making sense
<didrocks> I would have had --env="TESTS='medium large'" <â¦> for instance
<pitti> but it needs to be ... "env": ["TESTS=pep8"]}
<pitti> didrocks: run-autopkgtest shoudl accept multiple --env options, then it'll automatically be a list
<didrocks> pitti: ok, modified as such
<attente> good morning all
<didrocks> good morning attente
<seb128> hey attente
<attente> hi didrocks, hi seb128
<pitti> didrocks: so that, eatmydata (if available), and DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive or moving the installation to d/t/control?
<didrocks> pitti: moving the installation, one sec, finish up formatting and pushing
<attente> seb128: thanks for approving that u-s-d merge. do you know who i should ping about maliit-inputcontext-gtk?
<didrocks> and adding -n to remaining sudo calls
<pitti> didrocks: btw, adt-run has a --testname option which sounds like what your $TESTS does; it sounds useful to expose that as test param too?
<seb128> attente, no idea, try asking kenvandine or bfiller maybe?
<seb128> they probably can redirect you
<attente> seb128: sure, thanks
<seb128> yw
<pitti> didrocks: then it will only run that given test from d/t/control, not all of them
<didrocks> pitti: mine is a little bit more complex than this, I always need setup and collect to run
<didrocks> + the testname can be more specific
<pitti> ah, ok
<didrocks> like "tests/small/test_foo.py:Bar/baz tests/large/test_games:Unity3DTests"
<didrocks> for instance
<didrocks> to only run those 2
<didrocks> (help debugging as some tests can take some very long time
<didrocks> )
<didrocks> and that results in the end to "setup/custom/collect" to be run
<didrocks> (pep8/small/medium/large are all "passing", doing nothing)
<didrocks> and custom do the right thing
<didrocks> pitti: making more sense? ^
<pitti> didrocks: yes, it does
<kenvandine> attente, try Elleo
<pitti> just looking for potential simplifications, but cf. "as simple as possible, but no simpler" :)
<attente> kenvandine: thanks
<kenvandine> np
<didrocks> pitti: ah, but I remove ubuntu-make in some condition
<didrocks> conditions
<didrocks> pitti: so, I will need to keep that one installed in setup-testbed, right?
<didrocks> pitti: or is adt-run a little bit dummy and just parsing d/t/c and see if things match?
<didrocks> (even if tests can remove some packages)
<didrocks> (I remove ubuntu-make in case of branch testing to ensure there is no confusion on what is running)
<pitti> didrocks: yes, it only parses Depends:, it doesn't check what's actually installed on the testbed after a test
<didrocks> ok ;)
<didrocks> as I remove umake/ dir when running system setup to ensure I don't have an import which is magically resolved by the local folder (also, coverage report is then confused)
<didrocks> pitti: looking good to you? https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/blob/master/debian/tests/control
<didrocks> hope you support trailing commas :)
<pitti> didrocks: needs-recommends is really necessary with this?
<pitti> didrocks: I think it does, test it locally with your desktop image? (just the smallest test you have, pep8?)
<didrocks> pitti: well, I use needs-recommends to have a desktop image as close as possible to reality
<didrocks> let's see with my dekstop image how that goes
<pitti> didrocks: I haven't tested multi-line Tests: and Restrictions:, thanks for being guinea pig :)
<pitti> didrocks: right, but reality changes quite often :)
 * didrocks *guineas*
<didrocks> :p
<pitti> didrocks: and libreoffice, orca, thunderbird etc. will hardly matter?
<didrocks> that's true, I'm still worried about things we miss that can interfere though (even if I mostly need lightdm and unity TBH)
<pitti> didrocks: I'd actually argue the other way around: If u-make depends on something which isn't a depends: of u-desktop, then that dependency is missing
<pitti> didrocks: well, leave it in for now, and then we can just try a run without
<didrocks> pitti: well, it's more for frameworks we install on, TBH, than umake itself
<didrocks> but yeah, agreed
<pitti> no recommends: should make the install a looot faster
<didrocks> yeah, if we don't start from a desktop image.
<didrocks> let's get the thing running and then, we can give a try
<didrocks> it*
<pitti> agreed
<didrocks> ok, multi-line worked!
<pitti> cool
<didrocks> so, let's try a run (running small tests, which are less than a minute)
 * pitti puts an "officially didrocks approved" stamp onto autopkgtest
<didrocks> that will test the env variable again :)
<didrocks> don't go toooo fast :)
<didrocks> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.shtml#pkg-ubuntu-make-master
<didrocks> let's seeâ¦
<didrocks> at least env make sense :)
<pitti> --env=TESTS=pep8
<pitti> yep
<pitti> and it's running
<didrocks> I'm trying a second one in parallel which should give: --env="TESTS=pep8 small"
<pitti> didrocks: I see three running tests, all have --env=TESTS=pep8 only
<didrocks> 3? I made 2 requestsâ¦
<didrocks> weird
<seb128> bah, laptop not booting anymore
<seb128> took me a bit to figure out that it boots with the previous kernel
<didrocks> and I only see one in the web ui
<seb128> also grrrr at systemd for not being able to reboot a machine
<seb128> it's stucked for ever on the dots animate and never reboot, need to sit on the power key
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, web UI bug -- it can't tell apart multiple tests with exactly the same params
<didrocks> pitti: my 2 requests were: ubuntu-make-master
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> grrr @middle-click bug
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14438198/
<didrocks> better
<pitti> didrocks: hm, that got eaten somewhere then
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, let's see first at least if one requests goes successfully to the end :)
<didrocks> btw, run-autopkgtest isn't versioned?
<pitti> didrocks: versioned how?
<didrocks> (I just modified it on snakefruit, didn't seem to have been bzr add on the vcs)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, britney2-ubuntu is in bzr
<pitti> didrocks: you should see a bzr diff on snakefruit if you modified it there
<pitti> didrocks: and it's there
<didrocks> $ bzr diff run-autopkgtest@
<didrocks> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: "run-autopkgtest@"
<pitti> didrocks: ah, bin/run-autopkgtest is a symlink to ~/proposed-migration/code/b2
<didrocks> it's under "unknown"
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> a lot of other uncommited modif in this repo
<pitti> didrocks: just the config (setting the password)
<didrocks> where is my git add? ;)
<pitti> didrocks:  you can't push on snakefruit anyway
<pitti> didrocks: ah, TESTS=pep8 still installs ubuntu-desktop; I guess that's a consequence of moving to Depends:?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, that's wanted
<didrocks> (until we have base images for this)
<pitti> my hope is actually that without recommends and with eatmydata that thing is fast enough so that we stop caring as long as you aren't actually watching it :)
<didrocks> pitti: I'm not in ~ubuntu-release, so I can't push from here (France, Lyon, @home) :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, let's see :)
<pitti> didrocks: send me a patch, bundle, or MP?
 * didrocks will sms you the diff
 * pitti does adb | git am -
<didrocks> heh
<pitti> didrocks: the fun thing is, my mobile just rang with a notification :)
<pitti> (but it's just the reminder for the 16:00 UES update confcall)
<pitti> didrocks: voilÃ : https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-trusty-ubuntu-desktop-ubuntu-make/trusty/amd64/u/ubuntu-make-master/20160108_145250@/log.gz
<didrocks> pitti: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/britney/additional-parameters/+merge/282007
<didrocks> pitti: heh, on @mobile ringing :)
<pitti> didrocks: that took 15 minutes, not tooo bad
<didrocks> yeah, it's not as bad as it could have been :)
<didrocks> ok, I need to check the artefacts
<pitti> didrocks: so without recommends that's maybe just 7
<didrocks> looks perfect!
<didrocks> I still have the per-tests artefacts and the global coverage collect
<pitti> didrocks: code coverage is a bit poor :)
<pitti> didrocks: I see lots of coverage files etc. in artifacts.tar.gz, so looks ok?
<didrocks> pitti: rohhhhhhhh, why pep8 doesn't test more, right! ;)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah :p
<didrocks> basically you have subfolders
<pitti> didrocks: so, go and hit it with the full thing!
<didrocks> like artifacts/{pep8, small, â¦}
<pitti> didrocks: perhaps once with recommends, once without, then we can compare
<didrocks> and the global one at root
<didrocks> pitti: hum, I think I need to look at why --env="TESTS=pep8 small" didn't work first
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> didrocks: do you need that for the full test suite?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I only run pep8 and small without arguments
<didrocks> (as large depends on 3rd party services, unfair to block packages if some $networks are starting to fail and they can)
<didrocks> medium were a little bit flacky, but I made them way better, I want to see how they run first
<didrocks> (on the cloud)
<didrocks> pitti: seems the target focus isn't the right branch, I've done another MP at https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/britney/additional-parameters/+merge/282015
<pitti> didrocks: pulled, thanks!
<didrocks> sweet :)
<Laney> cyphermox / xnox: Can you remind me how to start ubiquity from a bzr checkout please? :)
 * Laney has asked this loads of times before but always forgets
<pitti> time for adding that to README?
<pitti> or better ./run-from-checkout
<xnox> Laney, .... are you in the vm?
<xnox> (don't start ubiquity on the installed machine...)
<Laney> xnox: I hacked main
<Laney> it's not going to do anything bad now
<xnox> don't go past partitioning step, is all that i can suggest ;-)
<didrocks> "oupsss, pressed enter"
<didrocks> :)
<Laney> I want to make the slideshow step use wk2, no need to go beyond that
<Laney> but I don't know how to launch the darned thing properly!
<Laney> bleh
<pitti> Laney: last time I hacked ubiquity, I gave up and just changed the code inline on a live session
<pitti> Laney: i. e. scp the changed files, then run it from live
 * Laney is going to just install it probably
<Laney> I hacked it to just launch to the slideshow anyway
<Laney> eww, those deps
 * Laney goes for a vm after all
<didrocks> pitti: oh, I know why you got 3 instances running before
<didrocks> so run-autopkgtest -s trusty -a amd64 --ppa=ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make-builddeps --ppa=ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-make --test-git https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make.git --env "TESTS=pep8 small" ubuntu-make-master
<didrocks> (using the ssh redirection line) ends ups in running "small" (see the swift container) and ubuntu-make-master :p
<pitti> ah!
<pitti> yay quoting
<pitti> didrocks: so if you'd run that directly on snakefruit it would work
<didrocks> yeah, I guess so
<pitti> didrocks: or use double quoting
<didrocks> it's a little bit counter intuitive, I wonder if we can make that better
<pitti> didrocks: use commas for separating test names :)
<didrocks> yeah, sounds like an option
<pitti> (actually I'm quite serious -- on CLIs it's mostly just not worth the trouble dealing with spaces correctly)
<didrocks> I liked having a nosetests3 compatible format
<didrocks> does nosetests3 support commas? it's just a list of args
<pitti> didrocks: ah, maybe not, I don't know nose
<didrocks> I guess commas is the best option, quite annoyed to change the format compared to runtests for local run, but I guess it's okish
<pitti> didrocks: or double-quote
<pitti> didrocks: you wouldn't trigger them manually that often, so it's not such a biggie
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's more an issue of remembering when trying some PR branch
<Laney> still mostly light at 16:15
<Laney> spring is coming
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> "some" yeah
<Laney> xnox: how do I get ubiquity to show me tracebacks?
<Laney> seems the wrapper is doing something with stderr
<xnox> it's in ubiquity logs in like /var/log/ubiquity/ no?
<Laney> nein
<xnox> and/or in the popout window
 * pitti waves good night
<xnox> =(
<Laney> no window
<Laney> that log directory doesn't even exist
<Laney> maybe it's erroring too early?
<Laney> I put a syntax error in gtk_ui.py on purpose to test
<didrocks> good night pitti!
<seb128> pitti, have a good w.e!
 * Laney tries to port directly sans-tracebacks :-)
 * didrocks waves good evening, have a nice week-end everyone! :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, you too
<willcooke> cya didrocks
<Laney> bye didrocks!
<didrocks> see you willcooke, Laney, seb128!
 * Laney appeciates that didrocks stays around for a minute now ;-) 
<didrocks> Laney: thinking of you! :)
<Laney> you BEAST!
<willcooke> darn window focus
<seb128> ctrl-w?
<willcooke> ha, yeah
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> I do that often when I use dual screen
<seb128> look at one screen and closing thing on the other
<willcooke> exactly
<Laney> weeeeeeeeeee
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<Laney> woah
<Laney> no NO!
<Laney> I was weeing at something working
<seb128> ah ok :-)
<Laney> Note that due to historical reasons, GtkNotebook refuses to switch to a page unless the child widget is visible. Therefore, it is recommended to show child widgets before adding them to a notebook.
<Laney> that was a very helpful piece of documentation
<Laney> thanks whoever wrote it
<Laney> ok
<Laney> now I am going
<Laney> laters! happy weekend
<seb128> bah
<seb128> gnome-icon-theme upload rejected because the vcs was outdated
<seb128> going to resolve that on monday
<seb128> Laney, have a good w.e!
<Laney> MY BAD
<Laney> SORRY!!!!
<seb128> & same to desktopers
<willcooke> see ya
<seb128> Laney, no worry, and I pushed my revision
<seb128> let's sort that next week
<seb128> no hurry
<seb128> willcooke, have a good w.e!
<willcooke> I'm off too - ta ta
 * Laney pushed a fix up for seb128
<Laney> didn't upload it though, too scary
<Laney> byeee
<attente> have a good w.e. everyone
<flocculant> attente: have a good one too :)
<flocculant> I thought I would say that - you're late, they've all gone already ;)
<attente> flocculant: haha, thanks :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> always someone waiting for Laney to throw sand at them it seems :D
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-01-09
 * Laney releases bees at flocculant 
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-02
<andyrock> hey all
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you? had good holidays?
<andyrock> a lot of food and resting
<andyrock> what about you? :)
<seb128> same!
<seb128> which was good
<seb128> slowly getting back in business now
<b4n> hi
<b4n> I'm trying to tackle https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1653072 down, but I'm not very knowledgeable about X event interception
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1653072 in Compiz "Make accessibility shortcuts usable in all context" [Undecided,New]
<b4n> so, has someone a pointer for me so I don't peek too far the tree?
<b4n> basically the problem is the plugins need to get binding events also when there's a keyboard grab active -- well, at any time that is
<andyrock> b4n: it's not just about shortcuts
<andyrock> e.g. the ezoom plugin fails to properly zoom in/out unity
<b4n> andyrock: you mean at all?
<andyrock> hikiko did some work on it
<andyrock> let me check the negative plugin
<andyrock> give me 10 mins
<b4n> sure
<b4n> BTW, maybe XI2 and the XI_Raw* events would work.  Mumble seems to be using that and Mumble works with grabs just fine
<andyrock> and the true problem is that  the screensaver and the menus have the grab
<andyrock> using XI2 should work but the amount of work is huge
<b4n> :(
<andyrock> I'm wondering how Orca does that
<b4n> the unaware X guy I am hoped it could be a matter of enabling XI2 and adding support for its events (possibly manually in the specific plugins if that's easier in the mantime)
<b4n> andyrock: I tried to check out, but I don't really understand their code
<b4n> it's in at-spi2-core
<b4n> but it looks hairy
<andyrock> mmm not sure you can do that hacking a single plugin but I can take a look
<b4n> https://git.gnome.org/browse/at-spi2-core/tree/registryd deviceeventcontroller-x11.c and event-source.c I'd say
<b4n> that would be awesome :)
<andyrock> i think we can use at-spi directly inside that plugins but I'm not completly sure
<andyrock> b4n: ^^^
<andyrock> I'll take a look
<b4n> oh, I didn't think of that.  sounds kind of hacky but possibly no more than manually handling XI2 indeed, and possibly easier
<b4n> andyrock: thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-03
<hikiko> hi
<hikiko> happy new year !
<duflu> Happy new year, hikiko
<hikiko> same to you duflu :-)
<pitti> Good morning, and happy new year everyone!
<duflu> Morning and happy new year pitti
<pitti> hey duflu, good morning and happy new year!
<Laney> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<flexiondotorg> Good morning and happy new year desktopers :-)
<pitti> hey Laney, hey flexiondotorg, happy new year! had some nice holidays?
<Laney> hey pitti! ahoy flexiondotorg!
<Laney> pitti: very good thanks! we went to the seaside (Brighton), then visited two lots of family and were up in the countryside in Yorkshire for the new year
<Laney> after being 14Â° on Christmas Day it got down to -4Â° or so over NY
<Laney> somebody had a telescope so we did some stargazing
<Laney> pitti: what about you?
<Laney> did you achieve some mind clearance? :-)
<Laney> ready for the mind filling to begin now
<pitti> Laney: I had a nice three weeks of holidays too, need to get into the mood of working again :)
<pitti> spent the last two weeks in Dresden for meeting family and friends again
<seb128> Oh, people in there today, was quite empty yesterday
<seb128> happy new year desktopers
<seb128> hey Laney pitti flexiondotorg
<pitti> bonjour seb128, comment vas-tu ?
<seb128> pitti, Ã§a va bien ! et toi ?
<Laney> hey seb128!
<Laney> happy new year to you
<Laney> did you have some good holidays?
<pitti> j'ai une petite rhume, mais sinon bien, merci !
<seb128> holidays were great, quite relaxing
<chrisccoulson> hi everyone :)
<seb128> was just lacking the winter weather for the first half
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson!
<Laney> were you in france or nl or both?
<flexiondotorg> pitti, Like Laney we've been at the coast. The Lulworth Cove and then Dawlish. Got back last night.
<flexiondotorg> Much fun with the whole extended family :-)
<seb128> in France from the 19th until new year
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Morning :-)
 * seb128 wonders if yesterday was a "free" Canonical holiday day
<seb128> it was pretty empty and hr had it flagged as an holidays for everyone
<Laney> fantastique!
<flexiondotorg> It was in the UK. Public Holiday.
<Laney> substitute day for new years day
<didrocks> happy new year guys! Ah, this channel is active :)
<seb128> Laney, right, u.k does that but e.g France doesn't
<Laney> yep
<flexiondotorg> Happy New Year didrocks!
<Laney> I thought about you yesterday :P
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> some good holidays for you too?
<didrocks> oh, a pitti is here as well!
<didrocks> glÃ¼ckliches neues Jahr
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> yeah, holidays were good, the last week a little bit less as both Julie and I got a cold
<pitti> didrocks: gesundes Neues auch fuer Dich!
<didrocks> (fortunately, I was the only one to get bad fiever)
 * Laney was away with a sick person for the last few days too
<Laney> wondering whether I will survive
 * Laney hugs didrocks (not too close)
<pitti> seems I caught a cold at last as well, too many people carrying it already :/
 * didrocks hugs Laney with some cautious then :)
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> at least "DONE" and hoping to be protected for a while (still coughing though)
<Laney> stay strong!
<Laney> ah, new year, new mailbox full of spam from linkedin
<didrocks> have to, crazy deadlines for now! ;)
<Laney> holidays coming up :)
<didrocks> exactly ;-)
<chrisccoulson> Who feels like backporting gcc 4.9 to precise and trusty?
<seb128> doko? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<xnox> chrisccoulson, because firefox?
<chrisccoulson> xnox, yep
<xnox> chrisccoulson, well, precise is EOL in 3 months.
<chrisccoulson> Yeah, I can probably forget about precise
<xnox> chrisccoulson, are you gonna ask for rustcc as well?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, rust is going to be mandatory early this year. And it's going to require regular updates too
<xnox> chrisccoulson, .... i bet there is toolchain-r ppa with 4.9 for trusty. but i don't think anybody will like using out of the archive toolchain to build firefox =/
<Laney> strategic error
 * Laney has a blood donation appointment booked for tonight
<Laney> no climbing /o\
<ogra_> meeitng the vampires ?
<Laney> weight loss
<alexarnaud> happy new year didrocks seb128 pitti  and all :) !
<seb128> hey alexarnaud, happy new year!
<didrocks> hey alexarnaud, happy new year to you too! :)
<Laney> man
<Laney> i got a random container of soup out of the freezer for lunch
<Laney> turned out to be HUGE
 * Laney dies
<seb128> you know that you don't have to eat it all, you can keep some for tonight!
<Laney> :P
<Laney> I put it all into the bowl
<Laney> then it was there...
<seb128> lol
<ogra_> bring some to the blood donation people
<Laney> they'll have to get it out of me
<Laney> probably have all the right equipment there though
<ogra_> heh
<Laney> alarm testing guys are here and making lots of noise happen
 * Laney gets tinnitus
<seb128> k, let's have an easy meeting round, everybody but willcooke and robert_ancell are supposed to be back but the channel has been quiet today so might be good to have that one :-)
<seb128> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  3 15:31:33 2017 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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<seb128> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong, flexiondotorg, happyaron, hikiko, laney, qengho, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<flexiondotorg> o/
<Sweet5hark> Happy new year, all!
<hikiko> oh no
<hikiko> it's tuesday!
<seb128> lol, so we have some desktopers back who were hidding
<hikiko> I thought it's monday
<FJKong> happy new year and first meeting
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark, hikiko
<hikiko> happy new year!!!
<seb128> hey FJKong!
<desrt> omgmeeting
<seb128> happy new year all :-)
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> hello everyone :D
<hikiko> I have no bullets, I was on holidays!!!
<desrt> ditto
<seb128> hikiko, just woke up? :p
<hikiko> like everyone else I guess
<hikiko> lol seb128
<seb128> hikiko, desrt, read email?
<attente> can you believe i haven't seen you guys since last year?
<hikiko> hahaha
 * Sweet5hark has no bullet, but read seb128s mail ;)
<desrt> attente: i saw you this year already :p
<attente> ah right :P
<seb128> hikiko, I said so in the reminder, probably no status update to share (except for people who were working after the last december meeting and took some notes they want to share)
<seb128> lol
<hikiko> :)
<hikiko> sorry then, I didn't see it :(
<seb128> ok, let's have a round, if you have no status update just say some greeting and that you don't have anything else
<seb128> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, hey!
<seb128> he was around yesterday, not today he seems :p
<seb128> next
<seb128> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: attente
<seb128> attente, hey :-)
<attente> hey seb128!
<seb128> attente, don't pretend you are not there, I saw you :p
<attente> lol
<hikiko> lol
<attente> it was a super short week, i think i just followed up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bubblewrap/+bug/1649330
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1649330 in bubblewrap (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] bubblewrap unavailable on xenial" [Undecided,New]
<attente> happy new year everyone :)
<seb128> oh right, that one, I note to have a look this week to see if I can help with it
<seb128> thanks attente, happy new year to you too! ;-)
<seb128> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: desrt
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hi!
<desrt> uh... started working an hour ago after a very long time off :)
<desrt> larsu is sleeping in the next room
<seb128> k, good luck getting back in work mode!
<seb128> nice
<desrt> had a good christmas, new years, lots of fun, etc.
<seb128> time to make some tea? ;-)
<desrt> hope everyone else did too
<desrt> we (+mascha) did coffee so far... tea will be soon, i think :)
<seb128> I did, and seems like most of us did as well
<seb128> thanks desrt!
<seb128> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: dgadomski
<seb128> dgadomski, hey, unsure if you are around :-)
<dgadomski> happy new year everyone! nothing to share yet this year, just got back today :)
<seb128> welcome back and happy news year!
<seb128> new
<seb128> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: FJKong
<seb128> FJKong, hey
<FJKong> not too much to share, just have a meeting with NUDT guys last month
<FJKong> have some bugs to update
<FJKong> eof
<seb128> k, thanks FJKong
<seb128> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: flexiondotorg
<seb128> flexiondotorg, hey
<flexiondotorg> Happy New Year everyone!
<seb128> thanks, to you too :-)
<flexiondotorg> Â· Created snaps for Lightworks and Spotify.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Met with Lightworks product manager.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Video conferences with Spotify and Mail-In-A-Box.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Assisted with bug where snapcraft parts using debs don't recreate symlinks (LP: #1634813)
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1634813 in Snapcraft "Symbolic links inside .deb pulled as directories" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634813
<flexiondotorg> Â· Made some snaps for MATE applications using the GTK3 platform snap.
<seb128> oh, nice, how did that go?
<flexiondotorg> Â· Fixes for HexChat snap (upstreamed)
<seb128> you can probably tell us after the meeting
<flexiondotorg> Â· Assisted JetBrains product manager who has now started snapping IntelliJ IDEA
<flexiondotorg> Â· Assisted electron-builder developer with adding the final pieces for snap support. electron-builder can now produce snaps.
<flexiondotorg> ð¬
<seb128> great!
<seb128> I saw they had commited support for flatpak but I didn't see there was work ongoing for snap as well
<seb128> thanks flexiondotorg!
<seb128> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: happyaron
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<happyaron> hey
<happyaron> 1. opencc SRU to yakkety
<happyaron> 2. update network-manager for x, y, z series
<happyaron> 3. becomes Debian co-maintainer of network-manager
<happyaron> 4. went over ~300 bugs of network-manager and related packages (applet, plugins, wpa, etc)
<happyaron> 5. fcitx's low reproduce rate infinite loop fix and SRU (LP: #1652591)
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1652591 in fcitx (Ubuntu Yakkety) "[SRU] fcitx 100% CPU usage on rare case" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1652591
<happyaron> EOF
<hikiko> test
<seb128> happyaron, oh, well done on becoming the debian n-m co-mainainer ;-)
<seb128> hikiko, we can read you :-)
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<hikiko> sorry :)
<seb128> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: hikiko
<seb128> hikiko, and it's your turn!
<hikiko> hey! happy new year everyone! (greeting) well, I was on holidays.. :)
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> hope you had good holidays!
<hikiko> almost, apart from the fact that a plaster from a building fall on my car
<hikiko> and the building was our building
<seb128> urg
<hikiko> everything else was great :)
<seb128> nobody got hurt?
<hikiko> no fortunately I was inside
<seb128> k, good then :-)
<seb128> thanks hikiko!
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Laney
<seb128> Laney, hey, busy with the alarm guy or back to keyboard? ;-)
<Sweet5hark> BEEEPBEEEEP
<seb128> he didn't type on the channel for a while so I assume he's busy
<seb128> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: qengho
<seb128> qengho, hey
<Laney> hi
<qengho> Happy new year! I tried not to work, but I needed to educate my 8-year-old son in Quake, so I installed "openarena" package, and then spent a long while debugging what looks like a new (in yakkety!) word-size pointer SEGV. LP: #1653007
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1653007 in ioquake3 (Ubuntu) "yakkety ioquake3 SEGV in variable handling code" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1653007
<seb128> oh
<qengho> He escaped humiliation this time.
<Laney> thought we weren't doing a round!
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> qengho, happy new year!
<Laney> sorry qengho
<qengho> 'S okay!
<qengho> Missed you guys.
<seb128> thanks qengho
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Laney
<qengho> Happy new year.
<Laney> didn't prepare anything, sorry, thought we were skipping
<Laney> so I forgot what I did
<seb128> Laney, see reminder email ;-) (just doing an easy round in case people had note from decembre and so we get people to get out of the corner and say hey ;-)
<Laney> except today I fixed autopkgtest stuff
<Laney> armhf got broken
<seb128> yeah, I didn't expect updates
<Laney> and some requests got lost
<Laney> working now
<Laney> looking at bugs/merges/etc currently
<seb128> thanks Laney!
<Laney> weirdly didn't have that much  bug mail
<Laney> like 20 unread today
<seb128> yeah, same here
<seb128> a stack of file-roller bugwatch that updated
<seb128> and a few others
<seb128> but not a lot
<seb128> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Sweet5hark
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, your turn if you are done fixing Laney's alarm ;-)
<Sweet5hark> happy new year everyone!
<Sweet5hark> not much to share at this point: mail backlog, still coping with signal overload from #33c3 (likely last one that was in Hamburg with some 12.000 people)
<Sweet5hark> next: finish the 5.3 beta snap, xenial SRU
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I somewhat though you said you were done and you didn't, hope I didn't cut you in the middle of typing :-/
<seb128> Sweet5hark, happy new year :-)
<Laney> nah
<seb128> thanks Sweet5hark
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - A happy and driverless 2017 to everyone!
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.13.1 and 1.13.2 with many bug fixes and stability improvements, especially for bugs caused by the features added in 1.13.0 and bug found by the testing of driverless printing.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Fixed support for URIs with IPv6 IP addreeses.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Called for testing IPP Everywhere printing in Zesty on the ubuntu-devel mailing list and got some feedback leading to bug fixes.
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd: Called for help on the ubuntu-devel list about network/distro integration of ippusbxd Bonjour-broadcasting the USB printers made a vailable as virtual network printers. Received a lot of help from pitti, stgraber, in the direction of using a dummy network interface with IPv6 ULA IP address. Got it mostly working, at least when cups-browsed auto-generates the print queue.
<tkamppeter> - First look into how IPP scanning works, to also get driverless scaning to work, letting a GSoC student make a SANE driver for IPP scanning.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Working with Aveek Basu from lexmark India to find students. He is looking around at schools in India and sent me a first bunch of CVs.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> tkamppeter, happy new year to you as well!
<desrt> lol
<seb128> I saw from the mailing list that you have been busy during holidays
<desrt> 2017: the year of driverless
<desrt> if only i could find that ppd file... where did i download it from again?  >:|
<seb128> :-)
<tkamppeter> Yes, as I got a lot of answers on my call for help concerning the network bits for broadcasting a printer only locally.
<tkamppeter> Especially from stgraber but also from pitti.
<seb128> tkamppeter, good work, nice to see you got replies on your issues as well
<seb128> thanks tkamppeter!
<seb128> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, happy new year!
<seb128> italians are hidding, or late as usual it seems ;-)
<seb128> or and I forgot my round
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: seb128
<desrt> typical french, generalising about italians
<seb128> not a lot here, mostly enjoyed the holidays and did catching up on emails, bug reports and snappy work since yesterday
<seb128> desrt, true, sorry about that :p
<seb128> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: aob
<desrt> :p
<seb128> anything else?
<desrt> fosdem
<desrt> we should get a wrap on that and book tickets asap
<desrt> and i don't think it was ever properly announced/asked to the whole team
<seb128> right, reading the email it was clear to me that those who have non trivial travel cost should book
<seb128> but otherwise we need willcooke for the details
<desrt> do we even have an event code yet?
<seb128> hotel can wait next week I think
<desrt> flights are going to start getting really awful really quickly
<seb128> oh, good point
<Laney> Just take one of the 3 places and book it
<seb128> right
<seb128> but the event code is a good point
<Laney> nah
<seb128> well if she wants to book through the travel agent
<desrt> i can't book with the travel agent without an approval
<Laney> it's not needed
<seb128> otherwise you can book&expense
<desrt> and book&expense is ... deprecated
<Laney> you don't need an evt, just a req
<desrt> huh.  i'll fill that out then
 * desrt didn't know it was possible
<Sweet5hark> (read some story recently: booking is cheapest ~3 weeks in advance on a sunday apparently)
<seb128> well you need an approval no?
<Laney> yes but you don't need an evt for that
<seb128> k
<desrt> thanks
<seb128> so yeah, desrt please book the flight tickets at least
 * desrt will look into that today
<Laney> i'll find out which hotel to use
<seb128> Laney, did you end up doing something about the hotel?
<Laney> asking atm
<seb128> I was going to wait for willcooke to be back for that
<seb128> I got my room booked the day before fosdem last year
<seb128> so I don't think we need it done this week
<Laney> don't think it is necessary
<seb128> though it would be better getting that sorted out
<Laney> it's easy to get the agent to book it whenever
<seb128> right
<seb128> k, let's wrap the meeting, we can keep chatting then
<seb128> thanks everyone
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jan  3 15:57:34 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-01-03-15.31.moin.txt
<Laney> ok, they don't know which hotel yet
<seb128> k
<seb128> somebody keeps you update when they do?
<seb128> updated
<Laney> ye
<seb128> good
 * desrt forgets (again) where the travel request form is
<seb128> desrt, query
<desrt> thx
<seb128> yw
<Laney> I should think you can ping clan to get that approved so you don't have to wait a week
<seb128> or ping $manager on telegram
<seb128> the price he has to pay for not handling it before holidays!
<Laney> he was trying to be fair
<seb128> well, he replied saying to sort it out and book flights after most of us were already on holidays
<seb128> but yeah maybe not his fault
<Laney> had to go up the chain
<seb128> he might have been waiting for an ack as well
<seb128> right
<seb128> not blaming anyone
<Laney> :)
 * Laney is happy to be able to go
<seb128> :-)
<ochosi> evening everyone!
<ochosi> i just read "fosdem" in the backlog so i thought i'd say hi and let you know that i'll be there
<seb128> hey ochosi, happy new year!
<ochosi> oh and ofc happy new year to everyone ;)
<seb128> ochosi, great, some of us are going to be there as well
<seb128> ochosi, I hope with manage to cross each others, fosdem tends to be busy with people :-)
<ochosi> yeah, absolutely
<andyrock> Hey sorry I thought it was at 5:30
<Laney> hey ochosi
<andyrock> And I went to the supermarket
<Laney> looking forward to seeing you there ;-)
<andyrock> seb128: ^^^
<ochosi> Laney: yeah, i still remember where you were sitting last year at the delirium cafe, so in case you're going to sit there again i know how to find you ;)
<Laney> oh the absinthe table
<Laney> that is the place to be
<ochosi> indeed! :)
<seb128> hey andyrock, no worry :-)
<seb128> andyrock, do you know if Trevinho is supposed to be back?
<bregma> can you guys give me a number of Canonical people for FOSDEM so I can request an EVT since Will's still languishing on vacation?
<Laney> this seems a bit internal...
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> Laney, going to miss didrocks there this year :-(
<Laney> :(
<Laney> don't remind me
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> but plenty of other nice people to drink with
 * Laney will hire an impersonator to run around the desktop room
<seb128> until Dider joins us again in another year
<seb128> hehe
<andyrock> seb128: i was online few hours ago
<seb128> andyrock, who is speaking? :-)
<andyrock> seb128: *he
<andyrock> ahaha
<Laney> how is telegram sending me notifications on my laptop when it isn't open in the browser?
<Laney> can the web do this? :-o
<seb128> I don't see how it could
<seb128> the desktop client might if it has a service?
<Laney> might be able to install some background thing
<Laney> don't have any client installed
<seb128> didrocks probably knows :-)
<seb128> but sounds weird to me
<seb128> what webbrowser are you using?
<Laney> firefox
<Laney> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Push_API
<Laney> that thing?
<seb128> could be I guess
<flexiondotorg> Laney, seb128 I'll be about an hour late starting tomorrow.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, ok, no problem
 * Laney nods flexiondotorg 
<seb128> flexiondotorg, you speaking is reminding you that I wanted to talk to you about your snaps using the framework after the meeting
<seb128> flexiondotorg, but that can wait another day no worry
<flexiondotorg> seb128, OK then :-)
<flexiondotorg> So far, no big issues encountered.
<flexiondotorg> MATE has some additional deps.
<flexiondotorg> ANd I think MATE Team will make the MATE platform snap at some point.
<seb128> k
<seb128> as said before holidays it's a bit of a non obvious choice
<seb128> we could either bundle small useful libs
<seb128> or declare that they are not useful to that many snaps and easy to build/bundle by those who need it
 * Laney deflates
 * Laney feels not that useful today
<Laney> I should do some uploads tomorrow
<Laney> they make me feel better
 * seb128 cheers Laney up, you manage to deal with that emails backlog, which is good for a first day back :-)
<seb128> maanged
<seb128> managed
<seb128> (grrr)
<seb128> on that note I'm calling it a day
<Laney> thanks seb128!
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers!
<Laney> happy evening to you
<seb128> thanks, to you too!
 * Laney is going to fill a bag with fluid
 * Laney wonders whether to cycle
<Laney> laters
<seb128> bye!
<seb128> don't overdo it, also depends of if it's raining
<flexiondotorg> Night all.
<seb128> night
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-04
<hikiko> hi
<Laney> morning!
<seb128> good morning Laney!
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> not too bad thanks
<Laney> almost got under 5 minutes on the donation yesterday
<Laney> 05:11
<Laney> next time!
<Laney> what about you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> though I already miss the holidays morning extra-sleeping
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> not long until next christmas :-)
<seb128> yeah, and this year is good for holidays, most of our national days are on fridays and there is only one that end up being on a saturday (and none on sundays)
<Laney> nice!
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney seb128
<flexiondotorg> I'm back from the gym, just need to freshen up.
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<xnox> tedg, looking at src:url-dispatcher does that work under systemd at all?
<xnox> i see that it tries to query things with upstart....
<xnox> sil2100, could you review and approve https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/unity-scope-click/systemd/+merge/313713 ? =) or is that bypassing the processes....
<xnox> seb128, can you please make me the assignee of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-y-replace-upstart and target it to zesty somehow?
<sil2100> xnox: hey! Let me take a look, but I'm not a click scope developer ;p
<xnox> sil2100, i'm not sure anybody  is.... =)
<xnox> it's not scope related per se, just systemd session job, in addition to the upstart session job.
<sil2100> Yeah, see it, I guess I might be able to review that ;)
<xnox> sil2100, nope, there should not have ever been either dependencies on upstart or systemd. it's integration with a running session, if present, but doesn't require it.
<xnox> e.g. one should be able to install these packages in a chroot and execute binaries without any sessions at all.
<sil2100> xnox: ACK
<sil2100> xnox: top approved in that case
 * sil2100 wonders why there was an upstart dep in the first place there
<xnox> sil2100, on the other hand, i have added upstart dependency to unity8-desktop-session and ubuntu-touch-sessions as those do explicitely exec "upstart --user" to kick off the sessions.
<xnox> because, i'm dropping the deps everywhere else.
<xnox> =)
<chrisccoulson> oh, I'm not the only person who requires rust then https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2017-January/msg00001.html \o/
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi
<ricotz> see pm
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, replied
<chrisccoulson> happy new year :)
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, I got the impression that rust in firefox is still optional
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, it's not going to be optional for long
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, I mean "--disable-rust" is still a thing
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, yeah, the plan is for it to be mandatory early this year though. That option isn't going to be around for very long
<ricotz> I see, starting with 53 or 54?
<chrisccoulson> Possibly 53
<ricotz> hmm
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol, we can easily hold on that update though ;-)
<seb128> xnox, blueprint assigned to you and re-targetted
<xnox> tah
<seb128> yw!
<flocculant> welcome back all you desktoppers :)
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, o/
<seb128> hey flocculant, thanks
<flocculant> hope you all had good break :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, thanks ;)
<tedg> xnox: Not that I know of, we need to get U8 moved over first me thinks.
<b4n> andyrock: had you a chance to look further at making keybinding for some plugin work also in case of grabs? (https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1653072)
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1653072 in Compiz "Make accessibility shortcuts usable in all context" [Undecided,New]
<b4n> if not, I'll give it a try
<andyrock> Hey
<b4n> hey :)
<andyrock> I m working on it
<b4n> awesome :)
<Hallo32> Hi, are there any improvements for the network manager in 16.10?
<seb128> k, calling it a day
<seb128> it was quiet here today!
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers, see you tomorrow
<Laney> night seb128
<andyrock> b4n: you here?
<b4n> not really, but fire away
<andyrock> so if I have a menu open here and I type super+alt+s to activate the screen reader
<andyrock> it does not work
<andyrock> to my knowledge there is nothing special with this keybinding
<andyrock> at least in unity
<b4n> sorry, super+alt+s is managed by what?
<andyrock> by the shell, the settings-deamon register it to the current shell using the key grabber dbus-api
<andyrock> so it can be unity, gnome-shell, metacity, etc...
<b4n> ok, so it's kinda expected it doesn't work I guess
<b4n> 2s, lemme see one thing
<andyrock> let me try on a different shell
<b4n> yeah ok indeed it doesn't
<andyrock> but it works on the lockscreen (at least in unity)
<andyrock> that because we allow it and have the full control
<andyrock> let me try on a different shell
<b4n> gnome-shell also works on the lock screen
<b4n> I believe the report was about MATE's
<b4n> but in any case you're right, it doesn't work when menus are open
<b4n> OTOH, orca's own keybindings do work
<andyrock> but I can try to use XI2 directly
<b4n> yeah, as said I believe it's what Mumble use, and it works inside grabs
<b4n> did you try your idea of using at-spi API?
<andyrock> after a look at the API i don't think that's what they're meant for
<andyrock> we use XI2 inside unity because we have the control on the main loop and on the x11 events
<andyrock> not sure we can do that inside a plugin
<andyrock> but I'll try
<b4n> nah at-spi's API isn't really meant for that I guess
<b4n> okay, thanks
<jcastro> tedg: the theme looks so much nicer in the --edge inkscape
<tedg> jcastro: Yeah, GTK3 is better :-)
<tedg> jcastro: I'm excited to finally drop GTK2 in Inkscape.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-05
<hikiko> hi
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128 hikiko
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<hikiko> good morning all :)
<flexiondotorg> Good thanks seb128 :-)
<seb128> hey hikiko
<Laney> heeeeeeeeyyyyy
<flexiondotorg> Good morning Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are things today?
<Laney> hey flexiondotorg hey seb128
<Laney> looks quite nice outside!
<Laney> and I managed to get climbing last night
<Laney> yeahhhh
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> nice
<seb128> that was your first session this year?
<seb128> I'm good! blue sky outside and a some sun, that's always nicer ;-)
<seb128> no tennis yet for me though, lessons resume next week and it was windy/raining yesterday so I didn't go to the wednesday-mixed-group evening
<Laney> no covered place?
<didrocks> good morning flexiondotorg, hikiko, Laney. Re seb128 :)
<Laney> indeed it was the first session
<flexiondotorg> Morning didrocks
<seb128> re didrocks :-)
<Laney> a lot of people looking a bit s-l-o-w, including me
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> what's up?
<didrocks> in remission from coughing, so hopefully will finally get a little bit of rest this week-end :)
<didrocks> and you?
<seb128> Laney, they have a few indoor courts but those are usually booked for training of people who play competition&such, also not enough space for the number of people showing up for the free-play evenings
<Laney> I got this new huge pillow
<Laney> think it's giving me a bad neck /o\
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> might go back to the old configuration
<didrocks> or give it a little bit more time to adjust yourself?
<Laney> maaaaaaaaaaaybe
<Laney> hoping it squishes down a bit
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> bonjour tout le monde !
 * pitti hugs Laney, didrocks, seb128 and flexiondotorg
 * didrocks hugs pitti back! Hope you are having fun in this first week :-)
<seb128> salut pitti! comment Ã§a va dans ton nouveau travail ?
<pitti> I do! starting to feel the pain in pointless distro differences :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<didrocks> haha :)
<pitti> but the year started remarkably quiet -- it's an entirely new experience to come back after 3 weeks of holidays with ZERO backlog
<seb128> haha
<seb128> there wasn't much ubuntu backlog for me this year
<pitti> so, plenty of time to dive into Fedora, cockpit, vagrant, and whatnot
<Laney> heeeey pitti
<pitti> well, I did mean emails and such, but I also meant assigned bugs, WIs and so on
<seb128> oh, right
<didrocks> yeah :)
<seb128> existing work didn't go away during holidays indeed
<seb128> but I still remember years starting with stack of emails (lists & launchpad) that would take a full day to do a first pass over
<seb128> flexiondotorg, btw, did you end up looking at snapping pidgin?
<flexiondotorg> Not yet, but I'm game.
<flexiondotorg> I'm just working through my catch up item for Snap now.
<flexiondotorg> I'll also contact the project.
<seb128> k, good, thanks
<seb128> let me know if they reply or when you get a snap to try
<flexiondotorg> Wilco
<seb128> thx
<Laney> pitti: what should I do with proposed changes to autopkgtest itself?
<Laney> is there a reviewer now?
<pitti> Laney: the usual things, I guess -- attach it to a LP or Debian bug, or mail it to the ML
<pitti> Laney: I'm happy to review, or let barry do it -- barry and tdaitx were interested in its maintenance, and on the sprint we did an intro sessino
<Laney> pitti: Righto, I was more wondering if anyone is maintaining it now
<pitti> Laney: if it's something simple, just pastebin'ing a patch works too of course
<Laney> do they have commit access?
<pitti> no, not yet; but I didn't stop maintaining it
<Laney> nod
<pitti> I will just probably be much less proactive about it now
<pitti> but still happy to review/test/land stuff
<Laney> well, https://bugs.launchpad.net/auto-package-testing/+bug/1654025 then ;-)
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1654025 in Auto Package Testing "trusty/armhf dkms tests are killing workers" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> I didn't really understand WTF it broke
<Laney> but the patch fixes it
 * Laney is having lunch
<Laney> brb
<pitti> Laney: eww -- I thought lxc exec wouldn't make any assumptions about what's running in the container
<pitti> Laney: I guess it might be killed by the sendsigs kill-o-rama on shutdown?
<pitti> Laney: /etc/init.d/sendsigs
<pitti> Laney: does it help to put the exec's shell pid into /run/sendsigs.omit/autopkgtest ?
<pitti> Laney: otherwise, if you want to keep this approach, get_uptime() should check the exit code or for non-emptiness, I figure  -- otherwise out.split()[0] will throw an IndexError
<desrt> hello everyone
<pitti> desrt: hey Allison, happy new year! how are you?
<desrt> pretty good.  same old, same old
<desrt> how is your new life? :)
<pitti> my face is not made for a Fedora!
<desrt> maybe red just isn't your colour
<desrt> but seriously: sorry about having to run an rpm-based system :(
<pitti> honestly, pretty good -- starting the year with ZERO backlog feels great, and I'm in the midst of the "play with new things" phase
<desrt> after a life in deb-land, that must seem pretty weird
<pitti> some things drive me a bit nuts, but 's ok
<andyrock> hey all
<desrt> hi andyrock
<desrt> i keep forgetting that i know you
<andyrock> ahahaha
<desrt> it's like "oh.. it's that weird andy guy who is always here...."
<desrt> "hi"
<desrt> "no wait!  it's andrea!"
<desrt> jbicha, mdeslaur: good morning
<jbicha> good morning
<pitti> desrt: services not starting after installation is a bit hard to get used to, and dnf being effing slow too, but I at least got video playback working :)
<mdeslaur> hi desrt
<pitti> desrt: and I guess I can get used to the crappy font rendering :)
<desrt> pitti: actually, this is something that i think debian should talk about.  debian is kinda terrifying in this regard
<desrt> install something relatively innocent-sounding like ssh-import-id, don't pay enough attention to the apt prompt and suddenly your system is listening on port 22
<pitti> well, here it's "follow the instructions to install vagrant or whatnot", and wondering why things don't work, but they start working after a reboot
<desrt> as someone who uses a relatively weak password on her laptop (since i have disk encryption and i use the lockscreen quite frequently) this is very scary
<pitti> having to reboot (or figure out which units to start manually) is rather Windows-y..
<pitti> well, then be consistent and also don't enable new services
<pitti> anyway, that's a Friday/beer flamewar, not for here :)
<jbicha> it's almost Friday!
<ogra_> and its always beer !
<pitti> tomorrow is a holiday here, so practially it *is* the  last day of the week :)
<desrt> so, what you're saying, then, is, .... beer?
 * desrt gets annoyed at irccloud
<hikiko> I forgot the nick again
<desrt> morning, hikiko
<hikiko> hi desrt :)
<hikiko> it's almost end of day
<desrt> ...and we're just getting started over here
<hikiko> but I forgot to change my nick after luncj
<hikiko> are you back to canada?
<hikiko> no more germany?
<desrt> more germany later :)
<desrt> for now, canada
<Laney> pitti: Hmm, would lxc exec still return 0 in the sendsigs case?
<Laney> Anyway, slight preference to go with what I have to avoid having to go re-investigate :)
<Laney> Can add some error checking; I just figured that if it's borked we want to die anyway - but probably in a more graceful way, granted
<pitti> Laney: well, if lxc exec cat fails, that might just be because the container is almost shut down, and /proc unmounted, or what not
<pitti> Laney: I don't think a failure there should count as "unexpected"
<Laney> pitti: mmm, I suppose we expect to call this when it is dying
<Laney> ok, if it really dies then the loop fails and we bomb later on anyway
<pitti> Laney: btw, $ lxc file pull t1/proc/uptime -
<pitti> Laney: less involved as it doesn't need to start a shell or rely on other things (but this is probably nitpicking)
<Laney> Fair enough
<Laney> I didn't know you could send it to stdout, nice
<pitti> Laney: I meant that there is no handling of an empty result
<pitti> Laney: i. e. nothign catches the IndexError then
<Laney> Yeah
<Laney> Gimme 5 minutes to add this, will ping you back
<pitti> also, retry loop: "for retry in range(10):" (saves having to do -= 1 and initialize)
<pitti> Laney: is this reproducible with test/testpkg-reboot/ on a trusty container?
<pitti> or do the dkms tests do  something magic?
<Laney> already did that one actually
<Laney> don't know, will try
<Laney> It's because it makes the container reboot, so if that test does it then there's a chance
<pitti> I tried the exec sleep 3600 in a trusty container, works quite well; but that was on a zesty host, maybe it's different in xenial
<Laney> I'm on zesty too, could only make it happen from autopkgtest
<Laney> simulating the same thing manually always seemed to work properly
<Laney> :|
<pitti> Laney: yes, it's a dummy test that reboots twice, and zero test deps or other stuff
<Laney> okk, I will try it
<Laney> ok*
<Laney> if retry == 0: bomb() # doesn't work so well :)
<pitti> Laney:
<pitti> for retry in range(10):
<pitti>    .. do stuff
<pitti> else:
<pitti>    bomb('timed out')
<Laney> what is that construction?
 * Laney hasn't seen for / else before
<pitti> Laney: else: gets run if the loop completely finishes instead of encountering a "break"
<pitti> it's pretty much for this case
<pitti> i. e. the "not found" end of iteration
<pitti> for needle in haystack:
<pitti>    if isok(needle):
<pitti>     break
<pitti> else:
<Laney> https://docs.python.org/3/reference/compound_stmts.html#for
<pitti>    print('not found')
<Laney> pitti: thanks, sensei!
<pitti> print(Laney.explain("sensei", please=True))
<Laney> pitti: https://artofvailaya.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/sensei-student.jpg
 * pitti bows
 * Laney somehow ends up on the floor
 * Laney has much to learn
 * pitti is reminded of his one year of Judo practice
<Laney> pitti: pushed a couple more commits
<Laney> now I've got an exit 12 to investigate
<Laney> rock and roll
<Laney> (completely different issue)
<Laney> woah, wait - lxc file pull gives the *host*'s /proc/uptime
 * Laney reverts that bit
<pitti> Laney: oh argh -- that's a different /proc/uptime than in the container? sorry, didn't notice that
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> (force pushed)
<Laney> pitti: kind of bad - the testcase exhibits the bug if I add a sleep 30 in there, but it exits 0 so is reported as passed
<Laney> Anyway
<Laney> don't want to burden you with this
<pitti> Laney: sorry, which test? tests/autopkgtest LxdRunner if you run it against a trusty image? or test/testpkg-simple/ ?
<Laney> testpkg-reboot
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/23747042/
<Laney> it should say "all good" too
<Laney> (and does after my fix)
<pitti> Laney: I'm not following, sorry -- what's wrong about that paste?
<Laney> pitti: The final line of the test wasn't printed, because the test was killed by the delayed reboot - and yet autopkgtest says that it passed
<Laney> I'm just saying that I don't know how to make the testcase be 'bad' before - my fix still works to fix it
<pitti> Laney: ah, so the "continuing after reboot" is not really after rebooting?
<Laney> right
<Laney> more worrying that we get an exit 0 when the test process is killed by reboot
<pitti> I thought the "continuing test after reboot. sleeping for 30s" was from the test itself, as it's not an adtlog.* message
<Laney> it is
<Laney> it just thinks it's after the reboot, but it's not
<pitti> right, the test should fail on spontaneous reboots
<pitti> looks like lxc exec actually exits with 0 instead of with some error?
<pitti> (that should be fixed)
<Laney> I guess so
<pitti> would be interesting to test the same with lxc or qemu
<Laney> luckily in the production case it was trying to download the source package which proved to be fatal
<Laney> still, might have some false passes in other tests due to this
<pitti> right, I even had that in a comment "lxc exec exits with 0 on reboot", without thinking of the consequences
 * Laney will file a bug at lxd
<Laney> weird
<Laney> All the lights just went off for a second
<Laney> in that exact second there was the sound of an eagle from outside
<Laney> ...and my desktop stayed on...
<seb128> weird indeed, but good that the desktop stayed on :-)
<Laney> yes, as I was typing ^ that lxd bug report on it ;-)
 * pitti waves good night, and holiday tomorrow
<pitti> Laney: please sub me to a bug report once you have something to push
<Laney> pitti: I think this one is good to go now
<Laney> but roger, have a nice weekend
<Laney> Maybe I'll try the lxd workers on this branch
<seb128> pitti, night, enjoy the 3 days w.e :-)
<ogra_> pffft ... bavarians ...
<ogra_> (northern germany doesnt have a free day)
 * Laney will celebrate by removing the christmas tree
<ogra_> give it to your local zoo !
<ogra_> donkeys and deer love them
<Laney> the council are coming to collect it
<Laney> wonder what they do with them
<ogra_> ah
<Laney> night!
<seb128> night Laney
<seb128> calling a day as well
<seb128> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-01-06
<duflu> Hmm some things that used to have noticeable delays are now very fast in zesty (live installer comes to mind). Does kernel 4.9 improve IO scheduling or something like that?
<duflu> Whatever it is... something that used to block a lot in the live session doesn't any more
<RAOF> duflu: IIRC they've merged the IO backpressure fixes?
<RAOF> duflu: Also: is canonical IRC down?
<duflu> RAOF: It went down very briefly but is not down
<duflu> You're the only one who dropped out permanently
 * RAOF assumes that his IRC bouncer will, at some point, work out where irc.canonical.com is again.
<happyaron> anyone knows when did opencc get demoted to universe?
<happyaron> launchpad shows it's in universe since xenial, but if so ibus/fcitx won't build... (and now they don't build suddenly, even there are binaries built last month
<happyaron> hey seb128 didrocks
<didrocks> hey happyaron
<happyaron> seb128: hey, could you have a look at this update? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx/1:4.2.9.1-4ubuntu1
<seb128> it fails to build
<happyaron> previous SRU was fine, but it show libopencc-dev can't be installed this time
<happyaron> built successfully in this one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fcitx/1:4.2.9.1-4
<seb128> let me have a look
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> happyaron, your opencc SRU is buggy, unsure how it got validated :/
<seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/295342472/opencc_1.0.4-1_1.0.4-1ubuntu0.16.10.1.diff.gz
<seb128> +Breaks: libopencc-dev (<< 1.0.4-3)
<seb128> that leads to
<seb128>  libopencc2-data : Breaks: libopencc-dev (< 1.0.4-3) but 1.0.4-1ubuntu0.16.10.1 is to be installed
<seb128> -> libopencc-dev can't be installed
<seb128> happyaron, you need to fix opencc B/R to be 1.0.4-1ubuntu0.16.10.1 and not -3
<happyaron> :-/
<happyaron> got it...
<willcooke> goooooooooooooood morning all.  Happy new year!
<Laney> morning
<didrocks> good morning willcooke, happy new year! Hey Laney
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<willcooke> oh, I think I'm supposed to be on holiday still
<willcooke> meh
<willcooke> might as well get a head start on Monday
<seb128> willcooke, happy new year! weren't you supposed to be off for the week?
<Laney> hey didrocks hey seb128 hey willcooke
<seb128> lol
<Laney> happy friday
<willcooke> seb128, lol
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> good, I was concerned it was monday and that I missed the w.e somehow
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> ha!
<willcooke> That would be a worrying thing
<seb128> indeed
<willcooke> urgh, 90 unread emails in my main bpx
<willcooke> box
<seb128> had good holidays?
<seb128> that's a comfortable stack to keep you busy today :-)
<willcooke> I was nice to be off for so long!
<willcooke> We all got sick about a week ago, so I'm not really feeling very refreshed right now
<willcooke> maybe a couple more days off :)
<willcooke> seb128, I got an upgrade notification today :)
<seb128> but not update-manager auto-opening right?
<willcooke> sorry, it *did* open
<willcooke> it opened the list of all the goodies I needed to install
<willcooke> s/install/upgrade
<happyaron> hey Laney willcooke
<willcooke> hey happyaron!
<seb128> willcooke, nice :-)
<Laney> hey happyaron, how are you?
<Laney> did you have any time off?
<happyaron> unfortunately nope, plan to do that soon, :)
<Laney> new year soon!
<willcooke> Not long 'til Spring Festival right?
 * willcooke plans to go in to London and see the festivities 
<happyaron> meh, Spring festival is 28th Jan this year
<Laney> that's the day after my birthday
<Laney> you can also celebrate that
<happyaron> \o/
<willcooke> I can see it now... Laneytown in London all decorated with vegetables with candles in
<willcooke> people open their allotments to the public and show people round
<willcooke> that kinda thing
<Laney> haha
<Laney> in the month of the bare soil
<Laney> that probably says something
<willcooke> oooh
<willcooke> we could be on to someting
<willcooke> thing
<seb128> other option is to make it the day where people freely climb walls and towers in London
 * Laney is going away to avoid having to host a party
<Laney> :-)
 * happyaron is welcoming his mom to his home next week
 * happyaron for the festival
<seb128> happyaron, nice!
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128 Laney willcooke happyaron
<seb128> flexiondotorg, hey, how are you?
 * flexiondotorg completely forgot to say Hellos earlier.
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Very well.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, how is snap backlog going? ;-)
<flexiondotorg> Much communication.
<flexiondotorg> Looks like I'll be focusing on Electron project for a while.
<flexiondotorg> So need to get the ones in progress wrapped up.
<seb128> Trevinho was looking at some of those as well I think, but you probably know that? Just make sure you guys don't dup work
<Sweet5hark> moin
<Laney> hey Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> Laney: heya
<Laney> 'sup?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapcraft/+bug/1649620 <- who has a reasonable change to raise the urgency of this one? It blocks moving snap builds to lp ...
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1649620 in snapcraft (Ubuntu) "snapcraft local run differs from launchpad run" [Undecided,New]
<Sweet5hark> Laney: heh, see above. ;) -- Now that I threw some bug escalation at others, will look at the one that was thrown at me (the libreoffice autopkgtests blocking stuff apparently) ...
<seb128> good morning Sweet5hark
<seb128> Sweet5hark, not sure, I think there is a stakeholder meeting for snappy/snapcraft but I don't know who represents us, willcooke might have more details
 * willcooke reads
<seb128> Sweet5hark, you can always try asking sergio or kyle on #snappy
<seb128> Sweet5hark, reading the bug description it's not clear what is different between the local & launchpad build though
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, seb128 I have a snapcraft stakeholders meeting next Friday.  I will raise then, but yeah, poke on IRC in the meantime
<Sweet5hark> seb128: well. actually its quite likely two issues: one is that local and lp builds differ (because I managed to finish local builds somehow that fail on lp), but I would need to recheck the "local build" stuff. I last tested that in December, so I dont remember all the details.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, the bug report would be more useful with details on what is behaving differently imho
<seb128> or at least build logs from local and launchpad
<Sweet5hark> seb128: The other issue is that on lp, whatever is downloaded during "pull()" is deleted before "build()". That makes no sense to me at all, so IMHO that quite likely is an issue on its own. I tried to recreate that locally and failed -- thus the report.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: so this is bug-yenga: stacking them higher.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: the lp logs are linked in the report. that same stuff completed fine locally (so I didnt add a log for that).
<seb128> Sweet5hark, having the local one would allow to diff the log and see the differences
<Sweet5hark> seb128: anyway, will retry locally and see if I can get a  happy log ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, also the clean between pull&build is worth a bug report by itself or asking Colin if he knows about that
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<Sweet5hark> seb128: IIRC it failed locally even earlier than on lp, so I had to work around it to get it to finish. But that workaround did _NOT_ work on lp. So the situation was: Running snapcraft locally fails early at something that is fine on lp. I work around that, and then it works fine locally and does NOT reproduce the failure that happens on LP.
<Sweet5hark> seb128: so starting from the same source, lp and local fail in to different interesting ways making it extra hard to create a good slim test-case. As I said: bug-yenga.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah, maybe go one bug at the time, fix the local bugs until you get it to build, if you hit snapcraft issues than block you let's escalate/work with the snappy team to get those fixed, once it build locally go to launchpad and see how it goes, if it hits an error report that bug/get it fixed/repeat
<willcooke> happyaron, sorry if you already emailed me about this one (still working through my back log) where are we with:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1645698
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1645698 in network-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] Upgrade network-manager to latest point release" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> k, going to grab something to eat, bbiab
<happyaron> willcooke: back, there's regression found in that SRU, I'm preparing a new one, will include all known requested patches
<willcooke> happyaron, coolio.  Any ETA?
<happyaron> (meant for xenial series
<happyaron> willcooke: guess by next Wed
<willcooke> happyaron, ack. thx
<desrt> hi everyone!
<willcooke> hey desrt HNY!
<desrt> willcooke: same to you =)
<desrt> was santa generous this year?
<willcooke> Coal and oranges are always useful
<desrt> i wonder if santa has to pay carbon tax if there are too many naughty kids
<willcooke> XD
<seb128> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> well
<desrt> except that my feet are a bit cold
<seb128> time to put socks on?
<desrt> but then i can't complain about it ;
<desrt> ;)
<desrt> what country are you in today?
<seb128> .nl
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, that 33c3 vid about wifi is really interesting.  I wonder if we should/could build smarts in to Network Manager to spot AP IDs which are the same as an existing one in your history only with a space on the end and warn the user?
<willcooke> or maybe just replace spaces in AP IDs with a box or something
<desrt> how is that useful?
<desrt> could not someone simply use exactly the same name, then?
<willcooke> basic attack is:  I sit outside your house and spot that you have a wifi network called "Fish" I then create a new once called "Fish " and de-auth you from Fish.  You then connect to "Fish " and type your password in
<willcooke> a few liberties in that description, but you get the idea
<desrt> erm
<desrt> but what happens if there are just two separate "Fish" networks broadcasting?
<willcooke> yeah, fair point, dunno
<willcooke> https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8195-predicting_and_abusing_wpa2_802_11_group_keys#video&t=322
<willcooke> @ 4 mins
<meetingology> willcooke: Error: "4" is not a valid command.
 * desrt knows so little about how wifi works
<desrt> i think the point where it stopped requiring me to plug something in is where my brain basically said "okay.. so... magic, then?" and stopped paying attention
<willcooke> :)
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: hah! yeah, I didnt really think too much about defenses here so far TBH. I think we might end up with auth over a second channel at some point (e.g. router displays a 4-number pin that you need to add at the end of your password). Then again, these attacks so far have not yet reached the levels of damage to justify this for home users...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, there are far easier ways to hack into a wifi though, like wps
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yep. Everything is broken.
<Sweet5hark> FWIW, speaking of 33c3, this one is pretty amazing: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8034-build_your_own_nsa (german, but downloads should have dubbing for other langs).
<Sweet5hark> They set up a fake startup, asked web trackers sellers about "sample data" and show that it is quite trivial to identify individuals from the click-stream. A
<Sweet5hark> (Those were the guys finding that the WoT extension is evil, btw)
<Laney> night!
<Laney> happy weekend
<seb128> same here
<seb128> have a good w.e desktopers
<seb128> enjoy Laney!
<willcooke> that was a long week.  Glad its the weekend
<willcooke> See y'all next week
<flexiondotorg> Night desktopers
<desrt> ciao!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-02
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, and happy new year!
<jibel> Happy new year oSoMoN !
<oSoMoN> salut jibel!
<jibel> oSoMoN, salut, les vacances se sont bien passÃ©es?
<oSoMoN> super, Ã§a fait beaucoup de bien
<oSoMoN> et toi?
<jibel> oSoMoN, trÃ¨s bien aussi, c'Ã©tait reposant
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN, jibel
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning and happy new year!
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, bonne annÃ©e!
<didrocks> bonne annÃ©e Ã©galement oSoMoN :)
<jamesh> happy new year everyone!
<duflu> Happy new year also, jamesh
<oSoMoN> hey jamesh, happy new year!
<didrocks> happy new year jamesh!
<pitti> Bonjour et bonne annÃ©e !
<pitti> didrocks, Laney: o/ did you have some nice holidays?
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, bonne annÃ©e Ã©galement :)
<didrocks> pitti: wasn't that good due to different sickness (and still sick after 5 weeksâ¦). Stayed at home as Julie was working. But still nice to travel for a week-end to each family's home. Yourself?
<pitti> didrocks: ah, that's sad; I hope you get well again soon!
<pitti> didrocks: we've spent 1.5 weeks in Dresden with our families and friends
<pitti> still here, about to leave to the train station for going back home
<pitti> just fetching some emails, chroots, etc. for working mostly offline in the train :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, seems the perfect day with email backlogging with working from train :)
<didrocks> pitti: have a nice trip! And enjoy a quiet working offline day ;)
<pitti> thanks! good day to you too, cu later
<didrocks> pitti: ttyl ;-)
<kenvandine> happy new year everyone!
<oSoMoN> happy new year kenvandine
<jbicha> kenvandine: stay warm!
<czajkowski> Happy New year!
<kenvandine> jbicha, you too... it's cold!
<jbicha> coldest day of the year!
<czajkowski> certainly wet over here :(
<czajkowski> cold I can deal with, add more jumpers and light the fire, wet just is horrible!
<didrocks> happy new year kenvandine, jbicha & czajkowski :)
<kenvandine> wb didrocks!
<czajkowski> didrocks: how was the lovely smoked foods! ?
<didrocks> czajkowski: I didn't eat any smoke food, but holidays were mostly good. Thanks! How about you?
<czajkowski> ah that was meant to be kenvandine
<czajkowski> clearly I need more of a vacation
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> it was good thanks, only a short break as heading on bigger hols in a few weeks to Florida to Disney
<didrocks> nice
<jackpot51> There is a bug preventing kernel drivers from setting Airplane Mode in artful. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1722034
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1722034 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "org.gnome.Shell.desktop[2331]: Window manager warning: "XF86RFKill" is not a valid accelerator" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jackpot51> I believe updating libxkbcommon to 0.7.2 will fix this issue. Could someone help me?
<jackpot51> Here is another bug report more clearly stating the issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1740894
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1740894 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "KEY_RFKILL is not passed to userspace" [Undecided,New]
<jackpot51> tjaalton, I was told by jbicha that you may be interested in this issue ^
<tjaalton> jackpot51: alright
<jackpot51> I have also contacted the Debian X channel on OFTC about this issue
<tjaalton> I noticed
<jackpot51> :)
<oSoMoN> good night all
<jbicha> tjaalton: I'm going to try demoting tk to universe for LP: #1720482
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1720482 in xterm (Ubuntu) "Demote xterm to universe" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720482
<jbicha> and then I'm guessing we'll need to list gnome-terminal *before* xterm in the alternate recommends/depends
<gQuigs> reverse-depends has a component flag.. oh I could have used that before...
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-03
<ChronDon88> Not sure if Im in the right place but I have a mini pc I got from a sketchy place and they didnt ask for me to send it back (its been over 8 month and I called today and they dont want it back)
<ChronDon88> Anyways there is a password on the thing
<ChronDon88> I've ran windows my whole life unfortionaly
<ChronDon88> It's a stripped down version of MK902II Mini PC (Only one USB,HDMI,Eithernet, and thats it)
<ChronDon88> I called and asked for the password the guy got sketched out and said he didnt know and hung up
<ChronDon88> I've surfed around on it and apperently they were using the network I hooked it up to for some sort of clickfarming thing?
<ChronDon88> Opps sorry
<ChronDon88> Just read the topic
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning!
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Good morning oSoMoN, didrocks, jibel
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, duflu, jibel!
<duflu> o/
<didrocks> oSoMoN: encore les pbs de santÃ©, mais bon, la prochaine analyse sera mi-fÃ©vrierâ¦ donc il y a le temps
<didrocks> et toi ?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, Ã§a va, la forme
<duflu> Hey koza... we seem to have lost the hangout URL
<duflu> OK, using the old one but not sure who's in today
<Laney> morning!
<duflu> Morning Laney
<Laney> hey duflu, happy back to work day (for me)
<Laney> happy new year
<Laney> did you have a good break?
<didrocks> good morning Laney, happy new year!
<Laney> a wild didrocks appears
<Laney> hey, wb!
<oSoMoN> happy morning Laney, and good new year!
<duflu> Laney, yeah good thanks. Sorry was in a hangout. You?
<Laney> hey oSoMoN! happy new year to youuuuuu
<Laney> have a good holiday?
<Laney> duflu: yah nice, had Christmas at home for the first time (instead of travelling)
<Laney> then went and climbed some mountains
<Laney> my hat got blown away in a storm :'(
<duflu> Well it appears you survived the mountains, so there's that :)
<Laney> we decided not to go along the plateau of one of them to the summit because it was too windy
<Laney> couldn't stand up properly
<Laney> so survival was touch and go :P
<Nafallo> morning
<duflu> koza: I tried. It doesn't build yet. Will finish it tomorrow
 * didrocks restarts on Xorg
<didrocks> (hacking the Shell)
<oSoMoN> Laney, I missed your question earlier, yes I had a very nice holiday, Christmas with family and even managed to catch a few friends from high school, that was fun
<oSoMoN> ate a lot and drank good wine, too
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/chrome-gnome-shell-does-not-work-with-chromium-snap/3377
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, i assume that is just not having dbus access to the service?
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, will check in a moment
<jbicha> kenvandine: Laney: I guess we'll want to talk about this more, but a heads up on LP: #1740637
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1740637 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "Remove python-appindicator and gir1.2-appindicator-0.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740637
<kenvandine> jbicha, yeah
<ochosi> jbicha: i guess 18.04 will stick to gtk3.22 for sure, right? or are there chances to jump to .24?
<jbicha> gtk 3.22 is the LTS branch, there are no plans to ever have a gtk3.24
<jbicha> btw, I expect we'll remove gtk4 from bionic before the 18.04 release, no use shipping a quickly-outdated snapshot of something before there are any apps using it
<ochosi> jbicha: sounds good, will be a while until there are a lot of apps using it i guess. thanks for the heads up!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-04
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Happy Thursday, oSoMoN
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hey didrocks
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu, salut oSoMoN, how goes?
<duflu> didrocks, well. You?
<didrocks> I'm ok, thanks!
<oSoMoN> I'm good too, duflu made me realize it's Thursday already, I'm lost in spacetime
<duflu> me hears Lost in Space theme
 * duflu hears Lost in Space theme
<Laney> hey hey
<duflu> Hi Laney
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> hey duflu & didrocks
<oSoMoN> morning Laney
<Laney> moin oSoMoN
<Laney> ah, those CPU bugs got published
<didrocks> yep
<andyrock> good morning!
<didrocks> hey hey andyrock!
<oSoMoN> hey andyrock
<Laney> pitti: disabled request.cgi because of $bugs
<Laney> also, hi :P
<Laney> and hey andyrock
<Laney> happy new year to you both
<pitti> hey Laney, happy new year!
<oSoMoN> jibel, so after connecting the camera interface, video capture is working?
<oSoMoN> nevermind, it works here too
<fossfreedom> jbicha / anyone - I know its too early to make decisions about what's in/out of 18.04 - anyway - thoughts on sticking with nautilus 3.26 so that desktop icons work (nautilus 3.28 will have desktop icons removed)
<jbicha> fossfreedom: the Desktop Team hasn't discussed Nautilus yet since that news first appeared over the holidays
<jbicha> but I think it's highly likely that Ubuntu 18.04 LTS will have nautilus 3.26 not 3.28
<fossfreedom> hmm - looks like I have to waste time integrating nemo. damn.  thanks for the info jbicha
<jbicha> fossfreedom: ?
<fossfreedom> lol - I read that the other way
<fossfreedom> must clean my glasses
<jbicha> no problem, other things to worry about for 18.04 ð
<fossfreedom> jbicha, I presume there is a desktop team meeting to discuss stuff like this?  If so - likely to be on the agenda?
<jbicha> you're welcome to open a Desktop discussion at https://community.ubuntu.com/
<fossfreedom> sure.
<jbicha> we do have IRC meetings here on Tuesdays too but the Community hub is better for people in different timezones
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-05
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning and happy Friday desktoppers
<didrocks> happy Friday oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> hey Laney
<didrocks> happy Friday
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<Trevinho> Morning desktop folks... And happy new year!
<didrocks> happy new year Trevinho!
<Trevinho> didrocks: hey Didier
<Laney> hey didrocks & oSoMoN
<Laney> wb Trevinho!
<Laney> are you finished travelling now?
<oSoMoN> hey Trevinho, happy new year
<Trevinho> Laney: hey...
<Trevinho> Laney: not really, but staying in Europe till March at least
<Trevinho> Well mostly Italy Italy however
<Trevinho> Now
<Trevinho> Hey oSoMoN!
<oSoMoN> so, finished travelling for 2017 :)
<duflu> Woo, a wayland fix 2 minutes before EOW
<duflu> what a good Friday
<oSoMoN> :)
<didrocks> have a drink over this! :)
<duflu> Heh. Dinner first at least
<duflu> later
<Laney> yesss debugging something and it got the pid "1337"
 * Laney puts shades on
<kenvandine> Laney, like winning the lotto!
<oSoMoN> that's a sign, for sure
<didrocks> time to go off, have a good week-end guys!
<jbicha> didrocks!
<jbicha> lol
 * Laney unlocks a session, victory~~~~~~
<Laney> night!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-01-07
<nabhash> hello : i am trying to use ubuntu 16.04 from a flash-disk (16G)  install went fine ... but when I try to install Nvidia drivers it says disk out of space.  I still have about 7Gb free still on the disk , what suggestions anyone can offer ?
<dobey> nabhash: #ubuntu is the support channel
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-05
<tangarora> Hi everybody, is there a way to use Gnome Boxes to access and manage vm's on a kvm machine using qemy or spice through ssh tunnel?
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-01-06
<tomreyn> tangarora: support is in #ubuntu please
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-30
<popey> duflu: regarding bug 1856516
<ubot5> bug 1856516 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Excessive memory usage by gnome-shell in 19.10" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1856516
<popey> just pressing Super then Escape increases RAM usage for me.
<duflu> popey, OK thanks, noted. I may not get to it till next year ;)
<popey> Sure. :)
<duflu> In other gnome-shell news, I did figure out the random mouse stutters
<popey> oh?
<duflu> It's garbage collection, because mouse movements are triggering more JavaScript than they should
<popey> Blimey.
<popey> Also, unrelated. I was blaming gnome shell for laptop lockups. Turns out the processor in my T450 needs some kernel bodges to make it not stutter.
<popey> intel_idle.max_cstate=2
<duflu> popey, what's the CPU model?
<duflu> popey, stuttering when the CPU is power saving is still our fault I would say. Just limiting power states is a workaround
<popey> yeah
<popey> i7-5600U
<popey> Broadwell
<popey> apparently known issue once I started googling without the words "gnome shell" in the search term
<popey> duflu: i know you gave a lightning talk, but did you write up somewhere the list of tools and processes for finding memory leaks in gs?
<duflu> popey, my talk was about real time performance, not memory leaks
<popey> oh yeah
<popey> Sooo. next talk will be searching for memory leaks, right? :D
<duflu> popey, anything is possible
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-12-31
<duflu> popey, popey__, I've been thinking about what you said and reading more about C-states. It might be possible to fix your (and other peoples) issue in mutter but I need more info like CPU model, and what C-states the CPU is in if you don't limit it (run powertop to find out?)
<duflu> I am keen to get some kind of fix in to mutter that doesn't require people Googling forums and adding kernel parameters
<duflu> Also a simple test case for what's fast/slow with/without the kernel parameter
<duflu> Oh well. popey, popey__, if you can please open a bug about your C-states experience I would like to look into it. Happy new year...
<matlock> I can help test with a T470s i5-6300U duflu
