#edubuntu 2006-06-05
<viv> There is no /var/log/installer directory on the box in question. Could it be as a consequence of the crasH maybe?
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<HedgeMage> quite possibly :/
<HedgeMage> did you look in /var/log/messages and/or /var/log/messages.0 ?
<LaserJock> hi Edubuntu people!
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock 
<HedgeMage> what's up
<LaserJock> not a whole lot
<LaserJock> I'm at the uni waiting for a meeting/dinner at 6:00
<viv> HedgeMage: Ouch. Im going to try 6.06 LTSP again to see what happens. I looked in messages and messages.0, but they are post - install. The installed version Gimps, Firefoxes, and open offices all at once while playing a CD - looks good?
<HedgeMage> viv: Looks good
<viv> Thanks for the words of support - Its quarter past midnight here in Knysna (SA) and I am doing one last install b4 bed. Yawn!
<HedgeMage> wow, long night :)
<HedgeMage> good luck!
<svivian> question to the channel: What is the minimum hardware edubuntu will run on?
<svivian> I want to build a box for my 18mo daughter, so would also appreciate opinions on whether any of the apps will be simple enough to hold her interest
<LaserJock> hi ogra!
<HedgeMage> svivian: My son has been using Linux since he was about 1yo (this was pre-edubuntu)
<svivian> She loves the computer, but is a bit random with her mouseclicks, so I don't want her on my regular box, plus the regular box is on my study desk (papers, bills etc) which she rummages through at random
<HedgeMage> svivian: a stand-alone install is recommended to have at least a 500mhz proc and 128mb ram (you can get by with a little less if you really have to since she's too young for the office suite to be of much use, same for some other heavy apps)
<LaserJock> the live cd's seem to also have problems if you have less then 256MB RAM
<HedgeMage> svivian: heh, been there, done that
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I think svivian was talking about an install, though, and installing with a text mode CD is fine at 128MB (since you aren't trying to run the whole darn OS from ram while installing)
<svivian> The memory shouldn't be that much of an issue, but I will want to run off the liveCD initially until she is more comfortable. I'll be setting up a separate box somewhere closer to her hand-level.
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: yeah, but I was just saying that the Ubuntu Desktop CD (livecd+installer) needs more RAM, in case he was interested ;-)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: ahh okay
<LaserJock> I have a 1.3GHz P4 with 256MB ram and it runs Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu no problem
<svivian> Is it possible to set the OS up to autologin to an account I create for her, but allow me to switch users so I can do updates/install packages as needed? I want the switch to be very non-obvious so she doesn't give herself su by accident.
<HedgeMage> svivian: with my little one, I found that hiding the menu bars and just putting icons for his favorite apps (TuxPaint, TuxRacer, ktuberling, fishfillets, and Same Gnome) on the desktop worked best.
<HedgeMage> svivian: definitely
<HedgeMage> svivian: what I would do in that case, is create yourself a user during install (this one will have SU privileges) and then post-install create a very locked-down account for her, and set it to auto-log-in.  You can always log her out and yourself in when needed.
<HedgeMage> svivian: that's what I did on TT's box, anyhow
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: how old is TT?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: he just turned 3
<svivian> Sounds like it will do what I need then. The Kubuntu boxes I have were only set up for me, so I never bothered with multiple accounts.
<HedgeMage> (btw, if no one noticed the pattern, each of those games, with the exception of Same Gnome, has fish, TT's favorite animal)
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: so he has been using linux for 2/3 of his life? impressive :-)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: heh, yep, and by the time he was 18 months old, he knew to walk away from windows boxen and ask to play on linux ones
<LaserJock> rocking!
<svivian> I must say I am surprised that, despite all the webpages on the subject, no one has managed to create a distro aimed specifically at a childrens' PC
<crimsun> conditioning at its finest.
<crimsun> who says we aren't evolving?
<viv> HedgeMage: I installed 6.06  full system again. Screen went black with 2 white squares just after "setting up the X-server" message on console3 (during CHROOT). On reboot it gave error 15 during grub loading...... Methinks the fact that the workstation installed despite crashing could be due to Xserver starting (or initialising) at different phases for Workstation and Full installs?
<LaserJock> svivian: I think probably much of the difficulty is getting linux nerds to sit down and write apps kids would like :-)
<HedgeMage> svivian: there was an extensive debian-edu project at one time, it fell apart due to stupid social politics :(
<crimsun> LaserJock: yep. I hope to tackle that for my dissertation.
<HedgeMage> viv: or to a difference in how they automagically set up X... you need ogra for this, he's the expert I think
<LaserJock> crimsun: dissertation? aren't you already done?
<svivian> I've seen the wreckage of the Tux4kids project, and the enatux project, and the non-moving (apparently) Debian Jr
<crimsun> LaserJock: I'm getting a education one, so no, far from done.
<crimsun> an education^
<LaserJock> ahhh
<LaserJock> very cool
<viv> HedgeMage: Im new to IRC. How do I get ogra's attention?
<crimsun> viv: he's asleep right now if he's sane.
<svivian> Laserjock: there are a bunch of apps, from what I see. The thing that is missing is a slim OS, with a default desktop that mimics the old Mac Launcher
<LaserJock> crimsun: how can you possibly find time for Ubuntu
<viv> crimsun: OK. I am insane - its 0h45 here - what time zone is he?
<HedgeMage> viv: I think he's sleeping, but in general saying his name (if he's here) will work.  If your waking hours seem to differ from his, you might try posting to one of our mailing lists
<HedgeMage> viv: he's pretty active on both
<crimsun> LaserJock: easy. I don't have a S.O. besides this Canonical laptop, I don't sleep much, and I drink lots of coffee.
<LaserJock> crimsun: still
<LaserJock> I think my S.O is what keeps me sane so I guess it's good. I do wish she was more into Linux/computers though :-)
<crimsun> "my S.O. doesn't have a choice"
<LaserJock> she thinks me "listening" and "talking" is more important than the Dapper release, crazy :-)
<crimsun> sheesh. ;)
<viv> Thanks for all the help guys. This is an excellent place for solving my problems - I'll be back in the morning to un-Bork my X, before my SO becomes my X.
<HedgeMage> lol
<svivian> Another question: Best bittorrent client?
<crimsun> anyhow, yeah, I'm looking at tying CMU's Alice into educational "best practices", among other things
<HedgeMage> svivian: depends on what you're looking for: lightweight, or tons of features, etc ?
<svivian> fairly lightweight, I should think. I've got adept open, and need a client so I can torrent the edubuntu .iso
<crimsun> rtorrent is pretty light, I think
<crimsun> LaserJock: http://www.alice.org/whatIsAlice.htm  if you're piqued
<LaserJock> crimsun: ah, I was going to ask
<LaserJock> crimsun: interesting. I have somewhat of a teaching bent, as in teaching at the college/uni level
<crimsun> teachers rarely receive the respect they{,we} deserve
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<LaserJock> I don't think I'm terribly great with little kids, but I do enjoy teaching science
<LaserJock> using computer technology in science education is an interesting subject
<LaserJock> some of the college chemistry textbook people are starting to do more
<LaserJock> but most of the time they don't know what they are doing and also use expensive proprietary software
<crimsun> I never would have "gotten" chem if I didn't have 3D models
<LaserJock> exactly, and good luck trying to explain quantum mechanics in a chemistry sense
<crimsun> hehe
<LaserJock> IMO from a physics standpoint it isn't to bad because you just do it mathematically
<LaserJock> and drown you students in derivations
<LaserJock> but to do it chemically, which is much more physical/concrete in nature, takes a combination of math and graphical approaches
<crimsun> yep, I was going to say that it's all the same from a mathematical perspective, but I have to keep reminding myself people don't necessarily "think mathematically"
<bddebian> Howdy
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, crimsun
<LaserJock> yeah, I find QM very hard to understand from a purely mathematical perspective because you really can't go beyond Hydrogen atoms without a fair amount of chemical intuition and a physical picture
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
<crimsun> 'lo bddebian 
* HedgeMage hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello HedgeMage
<LaserJock> crimsun: I did see this cool java app once where you could put a virtual circuit board together
<LaserJock> and when you turned on the power it showed the electron flow, etc.
<HedgeMage> :)
<crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, we have some like that in the engineering labs
<crimsun> too bad they're all matlab- and java-based
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'd like to work on python based apps like that
<LaserJock> I think it would be cool to have a "Chemistry Professor's Toolbox" with lots of cool little python apps that people can grab
<mhz> neurogeek: ping
<neurogeek> mhz, hello!!
<mhz> neurogeek: como le baila?
<neurogeek> mhz, lol.. muy bien.. demasiado trabajo!
<mhz> neurogeek: en tu "independencia"?
<neurogeek> mhz, sips.. miles de reuniones.. proyectos varios.. pero todava nadie paga.. jeje
* HedgeMage wonders what language that is, but is willing to bet it's a Romance language.
<mhz> neurogeek: yup, been there, tooooo maaaaany times
<mhz> neurogeek: just like my ex wife used to say: "now, let's turn the clapping in cash to pay for food, bills and school :D
<neurogeek> mhz, what about you? how are things going??
<neurogeek> lol.. so true
* mhz is listening to IronMaiden-Fear of the Dark, so everything is cool ;)
<mhz> neurogeek: FET is coming to life the 20th and 21st of June
<neurogeek> mhz, excellent.. Congratulations
<mhz> neurogeek: wanna see the poster?
<neurogeek> mhz, of course
<mhz> neurogeek: aceptas filetes via xchat?
<neurogeek> mhz, no creo que pase.. mail perhaps?
<mhz> neurogeek: okis
<mhz> dispare
<neurogeek> me at neurogeek.org.ve
* mhz opening evo
<mhz> neurogeek: noc, noc, follow the white rabbit
<neurogeek> searching...
<neurogeek> mhz, not here yet
<mhz> neurogeek: I do accept suggestions and feedback
<mhz> neurogeek: got it?
<jsgotangco> good morning
<neurogeek> mhz_rebooting, nope. not yet.. 
<ric3125> Hello I want to use edubuntu for my 4 year old, using Gcompris. I got ebubuntu 6.06 running but all I see is a Gcompris admin tab.
<Burgundavia> ric3125: applications --> games
<Burgundavia> ric3125: that should list gcompirs
<ric3125> Yes but it is  Admin  When I click it there is no trees or profiles
<ric3125> I got Gcompris open. There is Classes/users Groups Profiles and Boards. I have clicked everything and have got nothing going.
<Burgundavia> ric3125: there are two menu entires
<Burgundavia> Gcompris Admin and Gcompris itself
<jsgotangco> Applications->Games->Educational Suite Gcompris
<jsgotangco> (with the yellow plane icon)
<ric3125> I feel real dumb. thanks for your help.l
<jsgotangco> no problem =)
<jsgotangco> thanks for installing as well =)
<jsgotangco> we should move that admin icon somewhere
<Burgundavia> accessories?
<jsgotangco> doesn't fit well but its more logical than creating a new folder entry just for one admin tool
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> not really an admin tool, either
<bimberi> i reckon change name to "Gcompris Educational Suite" ?
<bimberi> then they're next to each other and the usage is evident
<jsgotangco> yes that will also work
<bimberi> i can't get "GCompris Administration" to do anything :|
<bimberi> but haven't rtfm'd :P
<jsgotangco> its basically a profile maker
<jsgotangco> but we all know gcompris has a mind of its own
<bimberi> it's becoming apparent
<Burgundavia> gcompris is a great app, but it is also trying to be a platform
<jsgotangco> its actually trying to take over my computer :/
<Burgundavia> all it wants you to do is understand
<Burgundavia> and if you don't, it obiviously needs to educate you ;)
<jsgotangco> ogra: ping?
<HedgeMage> anybody here have java working in firefox?
<jsgotangco> have you downloaded sun-java5-plugin?
<HedgeMage> nope, didn't know there was another package... I have sun-java5-bin
* HedgeMage fires up synaptic
<HedgeMage> this is so much easier on gentoo...
<HedgeMage> hmm seems I already do have it
<HedgeMage> WTF?!?!
<HedgeMage> I didn't change anything, but I opened firefox again to check a setting, and it works
* HedgeMage strangles java
<HedgeMage> at least it works
<HedgeMage> jsgotangco: you must have frightened it into behaving for me :P
<jsgotangco> lol
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> mornin all
<cbx33> phew what a busy weekend
<cbx33> decorating :S
<highvoltage> hey cbx33. hope you enjoyed it :)
<cbx33> highvoltage: hmmm
<cbx33> I'm shattered, didn't finish painting till 4am on sat
<cbx33> did I miss anything here?
<cbx33> highvoltage: I wanted to ask what phone do you use that you use IRC on
<highvoltage> cbx33: i don't use irc on the phone directly, i connect laptop to cell and then run irssi on laptop
<highvoltage> but it's a moto v3, btw
<jsgotangco> helomoto!
<highvoltage> i'm lying, i connect through a moto v360. the v3 is my 'voice' phone :)
<highvoltage> the v360 has edge, so it has lower latency
<jimjimovich2> hello everyone
<jimjimovich2> i had a quick question
<jimjimovich2> we  installed a new edubuntu dapper server on Friday
<jimjimovich2> setting up a student computer lab
<jjjjjjj> congrats
<jimjimovich2> how can i remove the option to "sleep" (or hibernate, i forget what it's called) from a "Desktop" user's options when logging out?
<jimjimovich2> I accidentally put the server to sleep with this option (from a thin client) ... and I don't think it should be an option for students
<jimjimovich2> i'd actually like to remove all options except for "log out"
<cbx33> highvoltage: what phones work well with linux
<cbx33> from that point of view
<highvoltage> cbx33: i haven't really seen a phone that doesn't work well with linux. probably depends what you want to do
<cbx33> how do you connect USB?
<highvoltage> both my moto's i can just plug in and dial up (via USB), or set up a bluetooth connection and dial
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I have a V220
<cbx33> think that could work?
* highvoltage tries to figure out which phone that is
<cbx33> motorola V220
<cbx33> :p
<highvoltage> my phones has a standard usb connector at the sides, which makes it very wasy
<cbx33> is there a site that shows you which work where ?
* cbx33 too
<highvoltage> it has gprs: http://www.mobile-phones-uk.org.uk/motorola-v220.htm
<cbx33> :D
<highvoltage> so you should be able to just buy a cable for that phone and plug it into your pc
<highvoltage> doesn't seem to have bluetooth though
<cbx33> i don;t need bluetooth 
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> I'll use a cable
<jimjimovich2> where can i submit Edubuntu bugs?
<Amaranth> jimjimovich2: i think it's in gconf, hang on
<cbx33> launchpad.net
<jimjimovich2> Amaranth: thanks
<jjjjjjj> is the option still there jimjim if power management is turned off in the bios?
<Amaranth> jimjimovich2: /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate and /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_suspend
<jimjimovich2> good questioni
<Amaranth> jimjimovich2: not sure how to set those off by default though
<jimjimovich2> i seems very odd to me, because shutdown and restart are not options
<jimjimovich2> but hibernate is
<Amaranth> jimjimovich2: http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/2.14/gconf-7.html
<jjjjjjj> what about this?  
<jjjjjjj> http://www.gnome.org/learn/users-guide/2.8/ch11s16.html
<Amaranth> jimjimovich2: very late in the dapper cycle the logout dialog was changed to use gnome-power-manager
<MagnusGoldstein> um... high peeps... I was wondering if anyone knew of any edubuntu graphics that one could legally use in a free edubuntu handbook
<MagnusGoldstein> sort of to wave the flag
<cbx33> MagnusGoldstein: oooh a free handbook
<jimjimovich2> Amaranth and jjjjj: thanks for the tips
<MagnusGoldstein> well, it's for an education assignment, but I want to go on with it afterward and publish a more polished version on the web
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i use a Sony Erisscson
<jjjjjjj> magnus... have you heard of lulu.com?
<MagnusGoldstein> nope
<cbx33> MagnusGoldstein: http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<jjjjjjj> http://www.lulu.com
<MagnusGoldstein> new to me
<cbx33> MagnusGoldstein: you can use content from there if you need it
<cbx33> that's going to be a printed booklet soon
<MagnusGoldstein> cool
<MagnusGoldstein> the handbook I'm writing is for teachers
<MagnusGoldstein> will have references to pedagogic theory and suggestions for activities/exercises
<jjjjjjj> jimjim... can i ask how you are booting the thin clients?
<MagnusGoldstein> will also have links to some curriculum documents
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: PXE
<jjjjjjj> unrelated to your question but i am beginning a thin client project.
<cbx33> jjjjjjj: PXE rawks :p
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: we got new network cards for our old machines. about $30 each
<jjjjjjj> with pxe built in or did you have to chip em?
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: with PXE built in
<cbx33> we were lucky most of ours had PXE built in
<cbx33> we run a dual boot system now
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: our newer machines have pxe built in too
<jjjjjjj> right
<cbx33> windows and linux over PXE
<cbx33> the windows isn't over PXE
<Amaranth> cbx33: you couldn't use a windows server and rdesktop?
<Amaranth> or was it just cheaper to dual boot?
<cbx33> could do...but din't
<Amaranth> the server would make it so you could stay in linux and just have windows in a window :)
<cbx33> well yes
<cbx33> but that would confuse the kids :p
<cbx33> as I work at a school
<jjjjjjj> my xp box is becoming more and more like a terminal server.  :P
<Amaranth> hehe
<jjjjjjj> just peek in now and then
<Amaranth> and you'd need a monster server to run that many windows sessions
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> we had 9 clients running off a dell D600 laptop
<cbx33> :D
<jimjimovich2> it's looking like we're going to need to get some new thin clients.
<jimjimovich2> everything works great with newer machines.  but our old machines are being a real pain
<jjjjjjj> there's a hack to have multiple sessions logged into a single xp machine.
<cbx33> brb
<Amaranth> jjjjjjj: it's also probably illegal
<jjjjjjj> ya.
<jimjimovich2> is it better to just get cheap celeron machines or does anyone know of some good thin clients?
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: we're just getting rid of windows all together (well, that's a long term goal)
<MagnusGoldstein> jjjjjjj: thanks for the link to lulu.com - looks interesting
<jjjjjjj> to be honest, i came on the nix bandwagon when i heard of vista's sheer hardware requirements.  it will only seperate the chasm between the haves and have nots.
<Amaranth> jimjimovich2: I would imagine some used whitebox celerons would be easier to come by (and possibly cheaper) than a real thin-client machine.
<Amaranth> But that's just a guess.
<jimjimovich2> Amaranth: we're in russia. and most thin clients we've seen are expensive
<jimjimovich2> Amaranth: but we can build new celeron machines for about $180
<Amaranth> i guess go with that then
<jjjjjjj> have you looked at the asus barebones with an onboardprocessor?
<jjjjjjj> http://usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=1&l2=2&l3=0&model=402&modelmenu=1
<jjjjjjj> they are about 155cdn here in canada.
<jimjimovich2> interesting
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: a quick search doesn't find any of those models in russia
<jimjimovich2> bummer
<jjjjjjj> hmm
<jimjimovich2> we'll probably just build some basic systems, if we can get the money
<jjjjjjj> many macs in russia?
<jjjjjjj> i do believe there is a powerpc download for edubuntu no?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: not many macs.
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: but my boss is yelling in the other room about how he can't wait for his macbook :)
<jjjjjjj> my wife has one from school.  i hate to see it go during summer holidays or if she leaves the school.  ibook g4
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: yes, i'm using a mac mini right now.  hope to get macbook this summer
<jimjimovich2> jjjjjjj: but besides that, it's all ubuntu
<jjjjjjj> good luck everyone.  i have to get some sleep but I was a pig and ate a big chocolate bar not long ago and will pay dearly trying to sleep.
<jjjjjjj> i used to come here now and then but there was nobody replying.  maybe time to refocus on the thin client project.
<jsgotangco> if anyone has a contribution for the next edubuntu newsletter, please start writing your tidbits we're also including it in the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter
<BugMaN> jsgotangco:  in the wiki page?
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> jsgotangco: how do i setup a modem for my mobile phone
<cbx33> I have the lead
<cbx33> and it's all plugged in
<cbx33> got a handy how to?
<cbx33> :( - I don;t think my mobile company support GPRS email/web
<cbx33> only WAP
<cbx33> ok I get Carrier detected, waiting for prompt
<cbx33> but nothing happens
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> I got it working
<cbx33> not sure how but woooooooo
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<cbx33> I got it working
<cbx33> I can dial out over my mobile
<highvoltage> nice
<cbx33> I want to fine somewhere where I can get really cheap calls
<cbx33> right now it's costing me .5p per K
<highvoltage> .5p, or .05p?
<cbx33> .5p
<highvoltage> wow. that's very expensive.
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> :(
<highvoltage> oh sorry, i read that as .5 pounds :) 
<highvoltage> over here it's R2 per MB. which comes down to about 20p per MB
<cbx33> WOW
<cbx33> That is cheap
<highvoltage> you can buy 100MB data bundles for R100. then it costs about 10p per MB
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> I can't find anyone who has rates as good as that
<cbx33> :'(
<highvoltage> when you buy a 1GB package, the price goes down to R0.60 per MB :)
<highvoltage> http://www.vodacom.co.za/pkgcr.do?action=getpkgsgroups&pkgTypeId=8&pkgGroupId=17&packageId=152
<cbx33> man UK sux for GPRS/3G netaccess
<highvoltage> last time i were in UK gprs was cheaper there, i think
<jsgotangco> the cheapest ive experienced was that with korea
<cbx33> highvoltage: do you remember what company?
<highvoltage> cbx33: vodafone.
<cbx33> do you know if that was conract or pay as you go
<cbx33> Data usage (per MB)  	2.35
<cbx33> that's pretty cheap
<cbx33> .2p
<highvoltage> pay as you go. i bough a cheapie phone on cheapest package for 25 pounds :)
<cbx33> well i think it works out at about .2p per K
<cbx33> which is half the price of my current provider
<cbx33> WAP over GPRS:Vodafone live! pages 0.1p per KB / Non live! pages 0.73p per KB
<jsgotangco> i thought most vodaphone providers worldwide now charge per 5minute usage
<highvoltage> in south africa, we have lots of competition between mobile operators for data, since our landline bandwidth is so expensive. so more and more people are using mobile data.
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> yeah in some areas, wireless is cheaper
<cbx33> .73p per K on PAYG
<cbx33> .2 if you're on monthly
<pygi> hey cbx33 jsgotangco  highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey pygi 
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<highvoltage> ogra: did you reply to Robert Arkiletian about the F1 Teachertool from K12-LTSP?
<ogra> highvoltage, the one with the awful ui ? 
<ogra> did he mail you as well ?
<highvoltage> ogra: he included me in the mail he sent to you.
<ogra> oh, ok
<highvoltage> ogra: i was just wondering whether i need to respond to him or not
<ogra> its the 10th (or more) mail i get from him
<highvoltage> geez
<ogra> i answered several moths back already 
<highvoltage> have you responded to one of them? if so, then i'm satisfied marking this message as read and storing it in archive
<highvoltage> ok, great.
<kholerabb1> Hello, dose anyone know if there is a language-learning app that can be used in ubuntu?
<ogra> and i dont wear my diplomatic hat today, afetr a whole weekend of being bombed with rants from this CatherineCapers woman
<ogra> kholerabb1, look at kvoctrain
<kholerabb1> k
<ogra> and kverbos i think
<highvoltage> i couldn't fine a CatherineCapers page
<highvoltage> s/fine/find
<ogra> but you saw the mail JaneW forwarded ?
<ogra> she's mailing us personally since months ...
<ogra> sending random rants why ubuntu ltsp is bad
* JaneW has given up trying to respond
<ogra> and doesnt accept any eplanation or any no
<highvoltage> ah, just got it. looking at it now...
<JaneW> she mails mark etc too
<ogra> *explanation
<pygi> cbx33, poke
<highvoltage> i want to respond
<pygi> JaneW, ogra , o joy :-/
<pygi> ogra, how am I supposed to add myself here when it's locked? :)
<pygi> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda
<highvoltage> i have some kind of a evil joy in working with difficult customers
<highvoltage> (some might even call it a talent)
<ogra> highvoltage, apparently she now found out that we dont default to etherboot, i already pointed her to the docs etc
<ogra> but she keeps annoying the ltsp.org people, disklessworstations.com and JaneW and me and doesnt accept that we have taken a decision for a default and wont default to the other... the mail JaneW forwarded is very calm, i have some really weird ones from this weekend from her
<ogra> so be careful if you answer, wo might never get her off your back then
<ogra> s/wo/you/
<pygi> hey Andrea ;)
<cbx33> pygi: hey
<highvoltage> ogra: i think i can deal with her. i've worked with worse :)
<pygi> cbx33, why is that edubuntu page locked for me? :P
<cbx33> I don;t know
<cbx33> lemme have a look
<JaneW> highvoltage: go get her!
<ogra> pygi, are you logged in ?
<pygi> o joy :-/
<cbx33> seems fine for me pygi 
<pygi> cbx33, yes, for me as well now :)
<cbx33> maybe me going in and out helped?
<pygi> cbx33, or maybe me loging in helped :P
<cbx33> pygi: ogra I had an idea about S-C-P
<ogra> cbx33, tell me 
<cbx33> I don;t know if you've got it implemented
<cbx33> showing one screen to all pupils?
<cbx33> is it possible?
<JaneW> w00t - Edubuntu is at 30 now for 'last 7 days' http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=1
<ogra> as long as we stay above xandros i'm happy :P
<pygi> cbx33, yes, possible, and it's in implementation plan
<pygi> just don't know how much we'll have time to implement some things
<ogra> cbx33, i guess so, thats on the list, but i havent found a sane implementation for it ... you somehow need to hook into the users shh session to do it safely
<cbx33> ok, damn thought I'd come up with a killer idea ther :p
<ogra> *ssh
<cbx33> ogra: yeh
<ogra> making the thigs behaving sane is the biggest problemm for *all* things we do with s-c-p and is the initial cause for its existence 
<ogra> s/sane/sane with ssh/
<cbx33> yeh i understand that
<ogra> all other teacher tool implementations just ignore security completely 
<cbx33> yeh, we gotta be secure abotu it
<ogra> so i'm not after having s-c-p ready as fast as we can but as good as we can 
<cbx33> I agree
<cbx33> how are you anyway ogra
<cbx33> havn't seen everyone in a few days
<ogra> i dont mind if it stays for two more release cycles in universe if that means we'll get it right
<pygi> Is this good enough to get approved for that member stuff of yours?
<pygi> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MarioDanic
<ogra> pygi, why *is* it called "How To Cook Edubuntu" ?
<cbx33> ogra: is there an implementation to blank all screens?
<ogra> (i found that strange from the beginning)
<pygi> ogra, I called it like that? :)
<ogra> cbx33, not yet, but that will be easy once we have a sane way to remotely execute stuff on the clients
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> pygi, but you say that you find it strange on your wikipage
<cbx33> and to lock out keyboard and mouse activity
<pygi> cbx33, we have 4 months to implement stuff :)
<cbx33> no it's be longer
<pygi> ogra, other people find it strange, so I had to write that :)
<cbx33> we want to get it right
<pygi> cbx33, yes, I know, no worries ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> pygi, i'D make it more clear then, it reads like you find it strange as well :)
<pygi> ogra, o joy, ok :) Otherwise fine?
<ogra> pygi, well, everybody in here knows you very well, i think the wiki (if you fill the TODO()
<ogra> will only have a minor count in our decision
<pygi> oki :)
<cbx33> you'd get my vote pygi, if I was in the council 
<ogra> its just the paperwork you have to do alongside :P
<pygi> more paperwork? :)
<pygi> cbx33, no worries ;)
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> I'll still advocate you though
<pygi> oki, so I have to fill this wiki stuff 
<pygi> ah, well :)
<cbx33> you've helped me out a lot
<pygi> cbx33, yes, I know you will ;) Thanks ;)
<pygi> Nah, I haven't helped you nothing :)
<cbx33> sure you have :p
<cbx33> got my started in python
<cbx33> if it weren't for you gisomount wouldn't have been started :)
<pygi> :)
<cbx33> and it's going well now
<cbx33> it's got functionality to calcualte md5sums
<pygi> yup, I know
* cbx33 is excited
<pygi> does that function I gave you worked?
<cbx33> heheh, still not tried it
<cbx33> havn't had any development time
<cbx33> was decoratingall over the weekend
<pygi> I saw the interface today ;)
<cbx33> for gisomount?
<cbx33> oh and it now reads volume labels and creats and mounts it's own mounting dirs, with the volume label as it's name
<cbx33> as per ogra's request :p
<lucasvo> don't we suppot etherboot as standard?
<lucasvo> isn't this the stuff from rom-o-matic.com?
<pygi> cbx33, yes, for gisomount, on your blog or something :)
<ogra> lucasvo, yes and no
<ogra> lucasvo, rom-o-matic has PXE support nowadays
<ogra> and we dont support etherboot as standard, it was always optional ...
<ogra> (mknbi isnt in main)
<cbx33> bbl guys
<lucasvo> oh, ok
<lucasvo> why is etherboot not in main?
<ogra> nobody wants to maintain mknbi
<ogra> its perl scripts around a lot of assembler code .... really painful to maintain and debug
<lucasvo> uh
<lucasvo> asm 
<lucasvo> I tried to learn it once
<lucasvo> but it is too "simple"
<ogra> i might pull it to main so we have it on the CD as an optional choice and you dont have to download it, but there is no way we default to it
<pygi> lucasvo, :)
<lucasvo> I don't like the default color scheme if gnome terminal
<lucasvo> the yellow is to yellowisch
<lucasvo> there isn't enough contrast to white
<pygi> lucasvo, I need to write that term :P
<pygi> "yellowisch" :)
<lucasvo> oh, there shouldn't be a C 
<lucasvo> yellowish
<lucasvo> :)
<lucasvo>  I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me saying "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at
<lucasvo>               funerals.
<ogra> where's that from ?
<lucasvo> I don't know
<ogra> well, you just pasted it
<lucasvo> someone quoted it in our #lugs channel
<ogra> heh
<ogra> makes a nice mail signature :)
<lucasvo> lol, yes
<ogra> pygi, you dont mention SoC at all in your wikipage
<pygi> ogra, does that matter?
<ogra> well, you did a ton of work there and dont mention it
<ogra> sure that matters as a contribution
<pygi> hm,ok,will write it right now :)
<lucasvo> preparing for edubuntu community council?
<ogra> looks like :)
<pygi> lucasvo, ogra forced me :P
<lucasvo> ogra: how much does one have to do to get elected?
<lucasvo> how many people get elected?
<pygi> here: 
<pygi> I was helping Jane where I can with organizing this SoC stuff, and I am mentoring 3 students.
<pygi> Joy :)
<ogra> yep
<pygi> lucasvo, cbx33 is the only one elected for now
<ogra> lucasvo, you have to have been around for some time and need to have done some sustained contribution ...
<ogra> lucasvo, like writing docs, reporting/fixing bugs, makeing artwork etc, everything counts
<lucasvo> I don't have enough time to do this, I really would like to but next to school I just don't have enough time
<ogra> lucasvo, btw, did you see my message about installing ltsp on ubuntu yesterday ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: what time?
<ogra> afternoon
<lucasvo> in this channel?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> if people ask "how do i install ltsp on (k)ubuntu?" please dont answer "install edubuntu-server", that will still leave them with the manual setup work, i created https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall, please point them there in the future
<lucasvo> oh ok
<ogra> everybody ^^^^^^
<lucasvo> I didn't know such a doc exist
* pygi hopes he'll be able to maintain Diva in universe ;)
<ogra> it didnt :)
<lucasvo> I thought they would come back and ask in this channel
<ogra> i created that yesterday, since i see everybody answering that question like i described ;)
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> maybe it's worth putting it into the topic
<pygi> ogra, what's the chance of me being able to maintain stuff in universe of which I am upstream author altought I am not MOTU? :P
<lucasvo> !ltsp
<ubotu> I guess ltsp is the Linux Terminal Server Project - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto (for Breezy), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo (pre Breezy).  See also http://www.ltsp.org/
<lucasvo> that needs to be updated
<pygi> there is better ltsp stuff in cookbook :)
<ogra> pygi, you can try to find a mentor, but usually mentors get annoyed after some time if you could even do it yourself
<ogra> (i'd go for MOTU if i were you ;) )
<ogra> at least long term
<pygi> yes, long term :P
<pygi> in like 5 years or so :P
<ogra> why ? 
<pygi> well, I currently have none packages contributed to ubuntu
<pygi> actually, I have one :P
<pygi> Network manager ;)
<pygi> And I don't know how much I need to become a MOTU
<ogra> you need to prove your packaging skills
<ogra> not more, not less
<pygi> ah, ok :)
<pygi> thanks for the info ogra ;)
<ogra> lucasvo, the thin client howto is fine, i just dont like it (it once looked like the quick install doc i wrote, look at it now)
<pygi> don't we have a newer stuff in cookbook?
<lucasvo> ogra: I mean it doesn't mention dapper
<ogra> pygi, nope
<coz_> excuse the interuption, i was looking at the conversation, in terms of art work, if this is contributed, is it through the forums or to someone directly connected with edubuntu?
<lucasvo> ogra: maybe one could teach ubotu the UbuntuLTSP
<ogra> coz_, i'm not aware of anybody in the edubuntu community reading the forums, so it might slip through under the radar there, the mailing list would be a safe bet
<ogra> lucasvo, yep, thats a good idea
<coz_> ogra, ok , I have already put things ont he forums gallery, the mailing list ,mm , I will check that out,  thanks again
<ogra> just send a mail with links to your artwork :)
<coz_> ogra, great thanks
<lucasvo> ubotu, UbuntuLTSP is To install LTSP on (K,X)Ubuntu read  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<ubotu> okay, lucasvo
<lucasvo> !UbuntuLTSP
<ubotu> it has been said that ubuntultsp is To install LTSP on (K,X)Ubuntu read  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<ogra> lucasvo, hmm
<lucasvo> ok not optimal
<ogra> i'd add dapper there somewhere
<ogra> or add it to the !ltsp output as dapper docs
<lucasvo> ubotu, UbuntuLTSP is on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall 
<ubotu> ...but ubuntultsp is already something else...
<lucasvo> :(
<lucasvo> !ubotu
<coz_> ogra, sorry, on emore question,,,mailing list edubuntu-devel, or edubuneu-users for the artwork
<ubotu> Yep, that's me! I'm a bot alright. Read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage to find out how to use me. Do NOT play with me in any channel except #debian-bots.
<pygi> ubotu forget UbuntuLTSP
<ogra> you need to delete it first i think
<ubotu> i forgot ubuntultsp, pygi
<pygi> lucasvo, now
<cbx33> :D - I need to improve my packaging skills
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> I can repackage, just need to know how to do it from scratch
<lucasvo> ubotu, UbuntuLTSP is on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall 
<ubotu> okay, lucasvo
<lucasvo> !Ubuntultsp
<ubotu> ubuntultsp is, like, on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<ogra> coz_, they are currently not distict, all users from edubuntu-devel are subscribed to edubuntu-users (-users is very new still)
<lucasvo> !ltsp
<ubotu> I guess ltsp is the Linux Terminal Server Project - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto (for Breezy), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo (pre Breezy).  See also http://www.ltsp.org/
<coz_> ogra, thaks again
<ogra> coz_, so pick as you like ;)
<coz_> ok
<lucasvo> ubotu no, ltsp i the Linux Terminal Server Project - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto (for Breezy), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo (pre Breezy).  See also http://www.ltsp.org/
<ubotu> lucasvo: I'm sorry, i don't know what you're talking about
<lucasvo> ubotu no, ltsp is the Linux Terminal Server Project -  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall (for dapper), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto (for Breezy), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo (pre Breezy).  or  See also http://www.ltsp.org/
<ubotu> lucasvo: okay
<lucasvo> !ltsp
<ubotu> ltsp is, like, the Linux Terminal Server Project -  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall (for dapper), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto (for Breezy), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo (pre Breezy).  or  See also http://www.ltsp.org/
<lucasvo> ok
<pygi> lucasvo, joy :P
<ogra> yep
<ogra> even just  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/ would have been better ... 
<ogra> quick install is pretty obvious there
<lucasvo> ubotu no, ltsp is the Linux Terminal Server Project -  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/ (for dapper), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto (for Breezy), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo (pre Breezy).  or  See also http://www.ltsp.org/
<ubotu> okay, lucasvo
<ogra> yay
<ogra> goal
<lucasvo> ubotu no, ltsp is the Linux Terminal Server Project -  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/ (for Dapper), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto (for Breezy), https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPHowTo (pre Breezy).  or  See also http://www.ltsp.org/
<ubotu> lucasvo: okay
<ogra> does this affect the database for #ubuntu as well ?=
<lucasvo> probably yes
<pygi> ogra, yup, I think it does
<ogra> good
<lucasvo> for #edubuntu we should have edubuntu girl
<lucasvo> where is she?
<ogra> ask highvoltage 
<cbx33> brb
<ogra> i think juliux wanted to arrange permanent server space for her
<ogra> gah, coz_ left already, forgot to tell him about the launchpad artteam
<pygi> ogra, we can tell him that at the list when he mails
<lucasvo> will there ever be support for local dvd-rw drives?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> lucasvo, sure, why not ?
<ogra> if we support cdroms we can also support every other disk spinning media thats attached
<pygi> o joy, somebody just approved me as edubuntu tester :)
<ogra> and you ddint even have to jum through hoops
<ogra> *jump
<lucasvo> ogra: isn't it something different to mount cdroms in gnome than burning dvds?
<lucasvo> hi cbx333 
<cbx33> hey
<ogra> you didnt talk about burning :)
<lucasvo> ogra: well that's what I wanted to know :)
<cbx33> did someone mention mounting and cdroms
<cbx33> ;P
<lucasvo> cbx33: yes I did
<cbx33> i couldn't resist
<pygi> cbx33, hehe :)
<ogra> lucasvo, if we have localapps support at some point ...
<cbx33> oooh, /me would love that
<lucasvo> cbx33: btw, do you want to include gisomount into gnome?
<cbx33> I'd love to
<lucasvo> so that every user can open the context menu and click Mount this ISO
<cbx33> that's the plan
<ogra> does gnome accept python stuff nowadays ?
<lucasvo> oh, ok
<cbx33> i doubt it
<ogra> me too
<lucasvo> ogra: what is gnome written in?
<cbx33> my efforts are probably in vein
<ogra> C
<highvoltage> lucasvo: juliux has donated some of his server resources for edubuntugirl. i wanted to get that sorted out the past weekend, but had lots of other things that came up. i'll move up the priority of getting edubuntugirl back, though.
<lucasvo> ++?
<pygi> ogra, yes, it should
<pygi> lucasvo, nop, C with Gobject stuff
<lucasvo> highvoltage: np
<cbx33> but i'm writing it primarily as an exercise for learning python and GUIs
<pygi> cbx33, I'll try to help you with KDE porting when I catch time
<pygi> which should be in like month and a half
<cbx33> pygi: that'd be great
<lucasvo> nooo
<cbx33> well it's still in devel as you know
<lucasvo> not kde
<lucasvo> :)
<cbx33> I suppose I should set a freeze date, but I'll have to talk to LaserJock first
<pygi> lucasvo, bah :)
<cbx33> we're co authoring it, though he doesn't have a lot of time at the mo
<pygi> lucasvo, read my wiki for what I think about that kde vs gnome stuff :P
<cbx33> he's worried that by the time he gets time to work on it, the code will be too big for him to read ;p
<ogra> cbx33, in any case make a package of it 
<cbx33> ogra: of course I will
<ogra> to get your foot into packaging
<cbx33> I'm trying to learn packaging so I can do just that
<lucasvo> pygi: If all the kde devs would join the gnome dev. team, gnome would be at least as good as kde
<lucasvo> same is with gecko and khtml
<ogra> lucasvo, you mean as bad as KDE ?
<cbx33> ogra: I'm looking into setup.py
* pygi is back later - lunch ;)
<pygi> ogra, no argument which is better ;)
<cbx33> as that is what is used for python packaging, so I'm told
<lucasvo> I think one should use khtml because safari is using it as well. that would be so much easier...
<cbx33> yuk safari
<ogra> cbx33, well, i never use it :)
<cbx33> ogra: how do you do it?
<lucasvo> imagine a www where there is only one rendering engine
<ogra> .install files in the debian dir suffice
<lucasvo> all the webdevelopers would loose their stuff
<cbx33> yes i see
<cbx33> ogra: would you recommend doing it that way
<ogra> lucasvo, you mean we should switch ubuntu to IE ?
<lucasvo> *would loose their job I mean
<pygi> ogra, lol :)
<ogra> hey mdz !
<lucasvo> ogra: I think either konqueror should use gecko or epiphany should use khtml
<cbx33> hi mdz :D
<ogra> lucasvo, *shudder*
<pygi> hey hey mdz 
<mdz> good morning
<lucasvo> ogra: gecko has teh majority
<lucasvo> but the kde fools still dont use gecko
<lucasvo> apple is stupid as well, using khtml instead of gecko
<lucasvo> *at least* they didn't develop a new engine
<ogra> thats not a matter of stupidity i guess
<lucasvo> ogra: why would the choose khtml?
<ogra> its a marketing decision the apple folks would be easily able to explain to you i think
<lucasvo> ogra: you mean choosing khtml they don't have to compete firefox which runs on osx as well?
<ogra> no idea, i'm not working at apple :)
<lucasvo> yeah
<ogra> but whats wrong with giving the people choice ? 
<lucasvo> what choice?
<lucasvo> which rendering engine one uses?
<ogra> which browser they like
<cbx33> ogra: do you cater for different install paths using the .install method?
<lucasvo> it makes my life about twice as hard when I make websites that should look the same in *every* browser
<lucasvo> ogra: rendering engine != browser
<lucasvo> ogra: I wouldn't care about khtml in firefox
<lucasvo> is there a pxe capable wifi card?
<ogra> cbx33, look at the debian dir in the ltsp source for example 
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> ogra: ok cool
* cbx33 has noticed some inconsistencies on the ubuntu website
<ogra> oh, the horrible orange banner is gone, good
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but xubuntu isn't on the employemtn page
<cbx33> and the partners page has a funny font for the tabs
<ogra> probably we simply just dont hire for xubuntu :P
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> and the planet tab that is in wiki, I think should be on the drupal pages
<cbx33> for consistency
<cbx33> who deals with the website currently?
<ogra> heno
<cbx33> maybe I should send a mail?
<ogra> or ping him in -devel :)
<ogra> i'd have said file a bug, but there is still no website product in launchpad
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I'll ping
<lucasvo> http://www.desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/156
<lucasvo> lol
* pygi is back
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> ogra: in that package, the ltsp, where do you specify where to install to?
<cbx33> most paths are relative
<cbx33> like client/lp_server
<ogra> yep
<ogra> thats why its so easy ;)
<cbx33> so where is the base dir
<cbx33> how does it know where to put them?
<ogra> just look from the / of your source tree
<cbx33> ogra: ok I think I see it now, you build the files, with the rules script
<cbx33> then the .install moves them from there into the proper locqations?
<pygi> wb Bluekuja 
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> dh_install moves them
<cbx33> yes
<Bluekuja> pygi: hello
<cbx33> but
<ogra> similar to dh_manpages moving the manpages
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but...
<Bluekuja> ogra, cbx33: good afternoon :)
<cbx33> in that example
<cbx33> it moves them into the chrrot of the ltsp server
<cbx33> how does it know to do that
<cbx33> seeing as usr/lib/ltsp
<cbx33> is still relative
<ogra> its doesnt
<ogra> it moves them to /usr/lib/ltsp
<cbx33> 0_o
<cbx33> client/lp_server/src/lp_server usr/lib/ltsp
<cbx33> is a line from the .install
<ogra> (there is a tempdir during package buildtime that has the tree)
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> the temp dir is under debian/
<cbx33> isn't it
<ogra>  /usr/lib/ltsp is the target location of the file
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but there is no leading /
<ogra> dh_install will prepend builddir and tmp path to that path
<cbx33> ah ook
<cbx33> that's all I needed to know
<ogra> in the package and in the install it will be /usr/lib/ltsp then
<cbx33> is where it ends up on my server
<cbx33>  /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/lp_server
<ogra> indeed
<cbx33> so /opt/ltsp/i386 is defined in which file?
<ogra> you get a box of beer from me if you find out why ;)
<cbx33> but it'll need to be altered for different archs
<ogra> (or at least 3 of JaneW's virtual goldstars)
<cbx33> wow 3 gold stars?
* cbx33 gets right onit
<cbx33> I'll hold you to that one
<cbx33> oh btw
<JaneW> hehehe
<cbx33> when I upgraded my dapper install to the latest version, it overwrote my pexlinux.cfg/default file
<JaneW> ogra: I'll have to hand my box of stars over to you
<JaneW> ogra: to use at your discretion of course :)
<cbx33> is that intended
<ogra> JaneW, they'll always carry your name :)
<ogra> cbx33, i'm not aware that anything runs ltsp-update-kernels automatically
<cbx33> ah is that overwrites it?
<ogra> and i wouldnt know anything else thats aware of this file
<cbx33> cos it shuldn't need to should it?
<ogra> ltsp-update-kernels should only be run if you upgrade the kernel in the client chroot
<pygi> JaneW, have you read How to cook edubuntu stuff? any good ? :)
<cbx33> ok, but doesn't it use a symlink as vmlinuz
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> so it shouldn't need to alter that file?
<cbx33> should it?
<ogra> it deletes and recreates the vmlinuz link
<ogra> after copying the kernel binary from the chroot to /var/lib/tftpboot
<cbx33> i know :p
<ogra> (and the initramfs indeed)
<cbx33> I've studied those scripts
<ogra> ;)
<JaneW> pygi: yes I have been reading it today - very nice :)
<jimjimovich2> wow, just spent 3 hours working on our lab.  got 5 more computers working.  just needed to set monitor and video settings in lts.conf
<pygi> JaneW, glad you like it ;)
<ogra> jimjimovich2, :D
<pygi> jimjimovich2, congrats ;)
<paolob> Hi guys! trying edubuntu 6.06: clients booting much faster! Congratulations
<jimjimovich2> our computers are slow, but they're working, so that's good.  going to talk to our bosses about getting a few more thin clients
<ogra> paolob, thanks !!! :)
<jimjimovich2> huge thanks to everyone who worked on this release!!
<pygi> jimjimovich2, just upgrade server if you can, and it should all behave better ;)
<cbx33> ogra: is the reason for the install dir in the source of the package?
<ogra> jimjimovich2, such a feedback is the bigges loan :)
<paolob> Still a problem with dhcp? When booting 1 client i get: Jun  5 08:53:55 server-basica dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:01:02:6e:46:97 via eth1
<paolob> Jun  5 08:53:55 server-basica dhcpd: ICMP Echo reply while lease 10.152.58.246 valid.
<paolob> Jun  5 08:53:55 server-basica dhcpd: Abandoning IP address 10.152.58.246: pinged before offer
<paolob> Jun  5 08:53:56 server-basica dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:01:02:6e:46:97 via eth1
<paolob> Jun  5 08:53:57 server-basica dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 10.152.58.245 to 00:01:02:6e:46:97 via eth1
<paolob> J
<jimjimovich2> pygi: upgrade server?
<paolob> i.e.: ip 246 abandoned!?! is it a bug
<paolob> ?
<jimjimovich2> pygi: it's a brand new dapper install
<ogra> cbx33, yes, in saome way its also in the source of the package, but not the way you might think ;)
<pygi> jimjimovich2, hardware :)
<cbx33> ogra: I'm gonna get to the root of this
<jimjimovich2> pygi: the server is dual xeon 2.8ghz with 4GB ram
<pygi> jimjimovich2, more :)
<jimjimovich2> pygi: but some of the clients are like 10 years old
<ogra> cbx33, aa small hint, read the description of ltsp-client
<pygi> jimjimovich2, joking :)
<jimjimovich2> one question for you all
<jimjimovich2> is it possible to mount local floppies or usb flash drives on the thin clients?
<lucasvo> jimjimovich2: not yet
<ogra> jimjimovich2, not without setting it up yourself ... ltspfs and ltspfsd are packaged, but not integrated 
<jimjimovich2> ogra: any links or docs on those?
<ogra> the scripts on the ltsp.org wiki and these two packages should help
<ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspFS
<jimjimovich2> ogra: thanks
<jimjimovich2> anyone using a solution besides local drives for student removable storage?
<pygi> ogra, do you know what's the name of artwork team on LP so I could point that guy?
<ogra> edubuntu-art ?
<ogra> no idea
<pygi> hm,ok, will look
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork
<pygi> thanks ogra ;)
<paolob> Guys, after upgrading to dapper, when I login in the console it says me "configuration error - unknown item 'QUOTAS_ENAB' (notify administrator)", and also with the items: NOLOGIN_STR ENV_HZ  CLOSE_SESSIONS . What is it?
<ogra> looks like a custom environment setting, did you set that =
<ogra> +?
<paolob> Besides that, I can't login into the clients: apparently the user/password pair is correct, but it goes back to entering username
<paolob> ogra, explain it better
<ogra> try running: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
<ogra> for the login issue
<paolob> ogra, ok
<ogra> oh, and how did you upgrade ?
<ogra> did you follow http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgrade ?
<ogra> err
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<paolob> ogra: I first did a sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, and then I followed the 2nd method in that page
<ogra> ok
<paolob> ogra, still problems with logging in the clients: only the first client logs in, the others do not!
<paolob> i.e. the first that logs is in the only that can log in
<ogra> did you reboot the clients after the command ? 
<paolob> ogra, let me see
<ogra> they need to pick up the new ssh keay on boot
<paolob> ogra, no client logs in gnome
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> you get dropped back directly to the login screen ?
<paolob> I put the username, the passoword, apparently it validates, but suddenly it restarts gdm
<paolob> and I get the username request again
<ogra> do you see the gnome splash ? or does it happen immediately ?
<paolob> ogra, no, I don't see the login screen
<ogra> hmm, thats an ssh problem then, strange ... did the upgrade of the server go smoothly or did you have any errors ? 
<paolob> wait... some user can login!
<paolob> some other not
<ogra> look in ~/.xsession-errors of the ones that cant log in
<paolob> and in the console all give the error about the unknown items
<paolob> where?
<ogra> in the homedirs of the users
<ogra> every user has a hidden ~/.xsession-errors where errors are logged if they happen after login ...
* highvoltage responds to our difficult customer
<highvoltage> i hope i wasn't too harsh.
<ogra> highvoltage, i talked to jammcq
<highvoltage> ogra: what does he say?
<ogra> that guy (its not a girl) bought 1 (one !) thin client at disklessworkstations and rants at them as much as at us since then
<ogra> he boutght that client 3 years ago
<highvoltage> ah, so it's not just our difficult customer :)
<highvoltage> geepers
<ogra> ignore :)
* highvoltage /ignores
<lucasvo> highvoltage: you work at disklessworkstations.com?
* ogra bets highvoltage would love to ... so much hardware to play with :)
<paolob> ogra, I found the problem: I was trying logging in with a user that existed but whose homedir didn't exist
<ogra> oh
<ogra> thats indeed a small showstopper :)
<paolob> ogra, other little problem: I killed the X server on a client, and now every time I boot that client it doesn't show the gdm login, but a console login, and I must issue ctl-alt-f7 in order to have the gdm login. Is it a bug?
<lucasvo> strange
<ogra> and all other clients behave sane ? 
<lucasvo> actually it should be readonly so it should be the same everytime 
<ogra> guys cbx33 just earned the 3 virtual JaneW goldstars :) 
<lucasvo> *clap* *clap*
<lucasvo> what is this?
<lucasvo> :)
<paolob> ogra, well, yes, on the others I can kill X without problems. Let me investigate more.
<JaneW> *clap* *clap*
<highvoltage> *clap* *clap*
<JaneW> cbx33: nice flaming-hoop-jumping :)
<highvoltage> what did he do to deserve the gold stars?
<paolob> ogra, and what about "configuration error - unknown item 'QUOTAS_ENAB' (notify administrator)" when suing, and when addusering and delusering too?
<ogra> paolob, thats a clean edubuntu ? no debian sources in your sources.list or something ? the error was reported in debian
<ogra> but i never heard that it ever entered ubuntu
<paolob> ogra, in sources.list I only have binaries
<cbx33> Thanks JaneW 
<paolob> ogra, before upgrading I had deb http://parroquia:3142/pkg-voip.buildserver.net/ubuntu breezy main
<paolob> (do not consider the apt-cacher proxy)
<ogra> weird, i cant get to that url
<cbx33> there's no hope of me getting there
<ogra> errr
<ogra> lol
<cbx33> port 3142
<ogra> indeed there isnt 
<ogra> unless you have parroquia in your /etc/hosts
<ogra> paolob, did you take that out ?
<paolob> ogra, look at http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=420049
<paolob> cbx33, port 3142 is used by apt-cacher
<cbx33> paolob: no i mean all ports are blocked here apart from like 80 443
<paolob> ogra, I commented that line out
<ogra> paolob, and is the error for FAIL_DELAY gone ? 
<ogra> err, you didnt have FAIL_DELAY in yours
<paolob> ogra, no, I commented out before dist-upgrading, and since after the dist-upgrade the error appears
<ogra> paolob, what does: dpokg -l login give you ?
<ogra> err
<ogra> dpkg -l login
<ogra> (should be 4.0.13-7something ...
<ogra> )
<paolob> ogra: ii  login                     4.0.13-7ubuntu3
<ogra> fine ... seems your login.defs werent upgraded ... :/
<paolob> ogra, I reinstalled login, but nothing changed
<ogra> well, its a conffile, you touched it ...
<ogra> (by commenting FAIL_DELAY in breezy)
<jsgotangco> good evening
<paolob> ogra, should I overwrite it manually from the deb package?
<ogra> you should have gotten a prompt during upgrade if you want to kepp the version or take the maintainers version
<pygi> hey jsgotangco ;)
<ogra> *keep
<paolob> ogra, actually I didn't modify login.defs by hands
<ogra> well, how did you comment that variable ?
<paolob> ogra, I didn't commented it. 
<ogra> <paolob> ogra, no, I commented out before dist-upgrading, and since after the dist-upgrade the error appears
<paolob> ogra, no, I commented the other deb source in sources.list
<ogra> anyway, installing the login package by hand via dpkg with the --force-confnew switch should solve it
<ogra> that will force the file to be overwritten
* pygi just noticed a samba graphical config. tool in gnomefiles
<pygi> (because I know we have one student working on that)
<ogra> there was an awesome nautilus extension once, no idea what became of that one ... the UI was grand
<paolob> ogra, I did it now, but the error persists. Should I restart something in order to get effective the change?
<pygi> ogra, hm...
<ogra> i'm not sure when login.defs gets read
<pygi> hey bddebian ;)
<bddebian> Hi pygi
<jsgotangco> yay for PXE
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, lol
<jsgotangco> i mean come one
<jsgotangco> s/one/one
<jsgotangco> ggrrr
<jsgotangco> s/one/on
<pygi> lol :)
<jsgotangco> its not OUR fault that a lot of computers now ship with PXE
<lucasvo> When I was wasting time on OSdir.com I found a screenshot from suse with gnome
<highvoltage> i'd choose etherboot over pxe too, but it's not worth making so much noise about. especially since you don't need to use the proprietary PXE firmware (which this guy didn't realise)
<lucasvo> there was a Gnome control center similar to the apple systems setting 
<lucasvo> will this also be included into ubuntu?
<ogra> thats yast, isnt it ? 
<jsgotangco> yes but if we're talking about practicality, its there (PXE), why not use it
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/637_or/41.png
<lucasvo> I quite like the desktop of SUSE
<jsgotangco> it looks like the kubuntu control center
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> but it is gnome :)
<cbx33> grrr....
<cbx33> my IRC keeps crashing
<jsgotangco> suse in gnome? the horror!
<lucasvo> it's like the System> Preferences menu but nicer arranged
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: why?
<lucasvo> cbx33: use irssi
<cbx33> lucasvo: I can't
<highvoltage> gnome is the default desktop on suse these days
<lucasvo> cbx33: why?
<cbx33> those ports are blocked
<cbx33> hence I have to do it another way
<jsgotangco> really?
<lucasvo> cbx33: you are in school now?
<cbx33> I'm in a school yes
<jsgotangco> the last suse i really tried is suse 10
<cbx33> I work here
<lucasvo> cbx33: use ssh to a machine and then use irssi
<cbx33> and it's not us that's blocked them
<cbx33> lucasvo: port 22 is blocked
<lucasvo> cbx33: I don't have school today
<lucasvo> cbx33: use ssl mailport for ssh :)
<cbx33> I'm the IT manager at the school
<lucasvo> I mean smtp
<cbx33> I can't
<cbx33> port 25 and 110 are blocked
<highvoltage> smtp blocked?
<lucasvo> cbx33: in CH it's a holiday nobody works
<highvoltage> geez
<cbx33> indeed it is
<cbx33> it sux big time
<cbx33> my only other option is vpn
<jsgotangco> isn't it the queens birthday today
<lucasvo> cbx33: and how are you supposed to work as an admin?
<jsgotangco> or something
<cbx33> which I'm pretty sure is against our service agreement
<lucasvo> without mail, ssh...
<lucasvo> cbx33: are you sure?
<lucasvo> ask your boss to give you the permission to use vpn
<cbx33> lucasvo: yes
<cbx33> we would be connecting to another network which is attached to the internet
<cbx33> == against TOC?
<lucasvo> oh
<sabdfl> hey everybody
<sabdfl> congrats on dapper-edubuntu
<lucasvo> thanks sabdfl!
<ogra> hey sabdfl, niche to see you here :)
<ogra> *nice tpo
<ogra> argh
<ogra> *too too
<pygi> hey mark
<jsgotangco> heyyy
<jsgotangco> sabdfl: thanks for the support too
<highvoltage> hi sabdfl. great to see you here :)
<sabdfl> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> ogra: sorry, didn't see your welcoming at first
<ogra> highvoltage, and, would that forbid you from saying hello ? :P 
<lucasvo> highvoltage: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/gallery/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=44394
<highvoltage> sabdfl: btw, i meant to say thanks for making shipit edubuntu cd's available for shipit. I can't wait to receive my copy. i'm going to let ogra sign that one ;)
<jsgotangco> with a golden pen!
<lucasvo> ^- maybe one could use one of these splashscreens for the edubunt-plain theme, the animals look a little bit more grown up, what do you think, highvoltage?
<ogra> haha
<lucasvo> ogra: you gonna sell some signed copies on ebay?
<bddebian> hehe
<ogra> heh, surely not :)
<highvoltage> ogra: did you see my last mail about the testing, do you think running a test 'test-run' in advance would be a good idea?
<jsgotangco> if ogra visits my place, i will definitely offer to him the virgins of my village lol
<pygi> jsgotangco, lol :)
<bddebian> Wow, you have virgins in your village??  Where is this place? :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ah, but you say that to everyone ;)
<ogra> 7me takes a secret look at his GF if she heard that 
* highvoltage imagines an ogra with a very guilty face
<bddebian> hehe
<jsgotangco> no that's mhz
<lucasvo> jsgotangco: but only if they are very geek and compile their kernel on their own :)
<highvoltage> ah yes, that's right
<pygi> cbx33, you still around?
<ogra> EEK, how did the spam get through ?
<lucasvo> cbx33 is a poor boy, at school without ssh and vpn
<lucasvo> ogra: where on a list?
<ogra> edubuntu-devel, yes
* jsgotangco doesn't see spam
* lucasvo neither
<ogra> "look through the message ctxe.pk you'll fancy it inside "
<ogra> is the subject
<lucasvo> ogra: you drank too much?
<jsgotangco> i guess gmail is very very good =)
<lucasvo> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: To: edubuntu-devel-owner@lists.ubuntu.com
<lucasvo> ah, that explains it
<highvoltage> it didn't get through to the list, afaict
<ogra> Von: 	Glenna Kerr <Glenna.Kerr@earthlink.net>
<ogra> An: 	edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<ogra> Betreff: 	look through the message ctxe.pk you'll fancy it inside 
<ogra> looks different in my evo
<lucasvo> nope, I don't see anything
<lucasvo> !flash
<ubotu> Installation & troubleshooting for Flash is covered in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
<ogra> hmm, weird
<ogra> there is no trace of -devel-owner either in the source 
<lucasvo> maybe a faked recipient?
<highvoltage> ogra: it seems i'm looking at an older, but similar e-mail. i still didn't see it on the list though 
<ogra> then its ok ... might be only me ...
<ogra> (still strange though)
<lucasvo> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-June/date.html
<lucasvo> it's not in there
<highvoltage> lucasvo: it says 'No Images to Display' :/
<ogra> lucasvo, the archive gets mirrored by a cronjob that has nothing to say
<lucasvo> ogra: it's not on the same host as mailman is?
<lucasvo> -is
<highvoltage> lucasvo: did you mean that one with the naked woman on it? that's like... old style ubuntu :)
<lucasvo> highvoltage: no
<ogra> no idea which host it is, but the archives are delayed
<ogra> thats normal
<highvoltage> ok, cheers #edubuntu
<lucasvo> highvoltage: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=2472&catid=member&imageuser=44394
<lucasvo> oh
<jsgotangco> elephant?
<ogra> elphubuntu :)
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> don't you like it?
<ogra> didnt he/she write about edubuntu specific artwork ? 
<ogra> i dont see any
<ogra> oh
<ogra> i lied
<ogra> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=2454&original=1&c=member&imageuser=44394
<ogra> puppybuntu
<jsgotangco> errr
<lucasvo> 16:45 < ogra> didnt he/she write about edubuntu specific artwork ?
<lucasvo> he/she said that he would be willing to change ubuntu to edubuntu
<jsgotangco> ubuntu zoo?
<ogra> :)
* jsgotangco wonders if there are any free software that is similar to what he has been playing lately
<pygi> ttyl later people
<jsgotangco> ciao pygi
<cbx33> pygi: I'm here
<cbx33> bah too late
<jsgotangco> Ethical Ubuntu???
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> my this goes against our PXE policy
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/graphicsbadness.png
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> i get graphics funnies on dapper
<ogra> there is a bug open about that anywhere ... seems to be the gtk engine
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/47638
<ogra> and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/47336
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> I'll ignore it then
<cbx33> right I'm off
<cbx33> should hopefully be seeing you all in awhile on my laptop from my mobile...
<cbx33> :D very exciting for me heheheh
<cbx33> byebye
<ogra> ciao
<cbx33> thanks again for the help ogra
* cbx33 just closed another bug on gisomount
<cbx33> a Major one :)
<ogra> nice :)
<jsgotangco> your own bugs?
<cbx33> :( - yes :p
<cbx33> for now
<jsgotangco> thanks karma jacker
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> it'll either be me or LaserJock who fixes them
<cbx33> I hope more people will be up for testing it soon
<cbx33> so I can get more bugs to fix
<jsgotangco> got a deb?
<cbx33> not yet
<cbx33> hopefully going to work on that over the next few days
<cbx33> it's just three files at the moment
<cbx33> just bung em in a directory and run em
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> gotta slim down the gisomount bzr repo
<jsgotangco> it should be trivial for you after all you're under guidance by the father packer
<jsgotangco> did that sound right
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> father packager
<jsgotangco> at least its not the mother packer
<cbx33> hehe
<RobinShepheard> hello all
<bddebian> Hello RobinShepheard
<RobinShepheard> greetings again bddebian
<RobinShepheard> LaserJock: Greetings
<LaserJock> hi RobinShepheard 
<RobinShepheard> LaserJock you can claim some responsibility, I am now a member of the Edubuntu testing team
<RobinShepheard> I took the plunge
<LaserJock> \o/
<RobinShepheard> now all i have to do is make myself useful :)
<jsgotangco> go burn that CD and work!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: I have the cd burnt and I have an installation running, I am using our win2k3 boxes for dhcp though
<RobinShepheard> oh and I now have a fully working citrix client install on the server
<jsgotangco> RobinShepheard: i was just kidding welcome to the edubuntu family
<RobinShepheard> jsgorangco: no problem
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: doh apologies for spelling and cheers for the welcome
<RobinShepheard> Just seen the time, speak to you all later, got to go
<bddebian> Enjoy
<lucasvo> the topic should be changed
<lucasvo> Wiki: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki is better 
<lucasvo> ogra: can you do it?
<ogra> you can as well
<jsgotangco> good night
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:lucasvo] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu | http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | HAPPY DAPPER DAY !
<LaserJock> ogra: hi! how's it going?
<lucasvo> cool :)
<ogra> lucasvo, thats the right url ?
<lucasvo> ogra: yes
<lucasvo> Hierher umgeleitet von Seite "Edubuntu"
<lucasvo> there is a redirect
<lucasvo> oh, https
<lucasvo> it also works without
<ogra> http works fine
<ogra> but shouldnt we use the target instead of pushing every user through the redirect ?
<lucasvo> well it needs less pspace
<ogra> thats true :)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:lucasvo] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | HAPPY DAPPER DAY !
<lucasvo> better?
<ogra> well, i'll try to keep in mind i can shorten it there if the topic runs out of space :)
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> I don't like long topics
<ogra> freenode agrees with you it seems :)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:lucasvo] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted | HAPPY DAPPER DAY !
<lucasvo> http:// is needed for gnome-terminal to autodetect the url?
<EmxBA> hi!
<EmxBA> does anyone speak here
<EmxBA> #ubuntu has mroe than 900 users
<EmxBA> *more
<Burgwork> EmxBA, no, we are all mute here ;)
<Burgwork> hey HedgeMage 
<EmxBA> Burgwork: heh
<highvoltage> Burgwork: sssssh!!! you're going to wake them up.
<EmxBA> we mustn't speak loudly
<HedgeMage> hi there :)
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: I occassionally stir... usually you have to highlight me, as Burgwork did, since I have a bajillion chans and windows to monitor
<EmxBA> :D
<bddebian> *yawns*  "What's all this racket"? :-)
<EmxBA> don't joke
<EmxBA> i want to talk seriously
<highvoltage> bddebian: EmxBA is making noise on our precious channel
<bddebian> Doh
<highvoltage> EmxBA: but we'll allow you, since you seem like a decent guy
<highvoltage> :)
<EmxBA> highvoltage: are you on this channel because of Edubuntu or something else :D
<highvoltage> EmxBA: Edubuntu. how can we help you?
<LaserJock> EmxBA: oh occasionally he his here for Edubuntu, but I think he really wants Edubuntu cake :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: don't give my game away like that!
* highvoltage just had cake, btw (father's birthday today)
<highvoltage> so that dependency has been satisfied.
<LaserJock> ah cool, congrats to him
<highvoltage> now i can focus on Edubuntu.
* HedgeMage makes another Edubuntu cake and shares it with highvoltage 
<highvoltage> whohoo!
<EmxBA> highvoltagae: i am admn on skolarci.linux.org.ba
<EmxBA> it is educational site
<EmxBA> and has a lot of texts about linux programs and games
<highvoltage> where's .ba?
<EmxBA> but it is Bosnian
<EmxBA> .ba i Bosnia
<EmxBA> is
<LaserJock> cool
<EmxBA> have you visited it
<highvoltage> i don't understand any of it, but it looks like a real nice site
<EmxBA> it is on bosnian
<EmxBA> i think you don't udnerstand anything
<EmxBA> in few days i am going to translate it to english
<EmxBA> :D
<EmxBA> really
<EmxBA> and i have already described Edubuntu
<EmxBA> and Knoppix4Kids
<highvoltage> great :)
<LaserJock> even cooler (as a poor unilingual American)
<EmxBA> that will be translated to English
* HedgeMage needs to learn more languages... there just isn't enough classical Latin being used in the FOSS movement to make her useful
<highvoltage> EmxBA: after some changes to the edubuntu site, we could certainly link to your Bosnian edubuntu page.
<highvoltage> EmxBA: can you give me a link to your edubuntu page?
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> that's not ubunut link
<EmxBA> that's just review of Edubuntu 5.10
<EmxBA> :D
<highvoltage> EmxBA: it would also be great if we could have http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu available in bosnian
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> i am going to translate it 
<EmxBA> no problems
<highvoltage> cool :)
<HedgeMage> oh, speaking of which...
<highvoltage> thanks EmxBA, and welcome to Edubuntu. we'll keep some cake for you.
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: I agree, although my latin skills suck too
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: the drupal internationalization module finally (I think) made the improvements we'd need to put it live on Edubuntu.org  I'm testing it out on a sandbox site as we speak.
<highvoltage> oooh! nice!
<HedgeMage> :)
<EmxBA> here is the link (suppose that you don't understand anything :D)
<EmxBA> http://skolarci.linux.org.ba/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=37
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: can you give me an sql dump of the current edubuntu.org site and a copy of the theme so I can use them for testing?
<EmxBA> i am interested in your thoughts about web design
<EmxBA> is this ok
<EmxBA> green colorus
<EmxBA> *colours
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: does it have to be a current dump, or can it be a bit older?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: there's a slightly outdated dump at: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/edubuntu.sql
<highvoltage> EmxBA: i think green is an acceptable colour for a website
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: as long as you haven't installed or upgraded any modules since the dump it will be fine
<highvoltage> EmxBA: although, you might want to stick to tango colours
<HedgeMage> also, what modules is the site currently using?
<highvoltage> EmxBA: http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines
<EmxBA> you mean mambo modules
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> green is ok
<EmxBA> but tango could be better, i really like it
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: we've kept it low, for maintenance reasons. it's just block, search and upload we currently use
<highvoltage> we'll expand as we get the basics sorted out more.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: cool
<EmxBA> highvoltage: so all of you like the site
<EmxBA> it wasn't just made by me, altough i did the most
<EmxBA> it is made by support of linux.org.ba
<highvoltage> our biggest dependency is that the server needs to send out mail so that users can register. I talked to Znarl again today, and he said he'll look at it. I'll ask him again tomorrow to see if he got any further with sorting that out.
<EmxBA> Bosnian Linux USer Group
<highvoltage> EmxBA: great. working with other people is always a good thing.
<EmxBA> highvoltage: can i have some of yours IMs
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: which method are you trying to use?
<EmxBA> i want to chat more :D
<EmxBA> anyone?
<EmxBA> i use emir215@hotmail.com as account for MSN messenger, i expect you to add me
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: best way to get ahold of me is on IRC, really
<EmxBA> i am very serious about skolarci.linux.org.ba and edubuntu
<EmxBA> HedgeMage, IRc is OK
<EmxBA> but i want to use other methods of chatting too
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: there's always jabber.
<EmxBA> HedgeMage, Jabber is similar to GTalk
<EmxBA> GMail
<highvoltage> EmxBA: I have a jabber account, jonathan@jabber.org
<EmxBA> i have exmlug@gmail.com 
<EmxBA> is that ok
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: i'm not following you, 'which method'?
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: close, GTalk is rebranded jabber :) but it works
<EmxBA> ok
<highvoltage> EmxBA: it's great to have you with us
<EmxBA> I added HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: you can send email from drupal by smtp, php mail function, or directly using sendmail
<EmxBA> ooups
<EmxBA> not HedgeMage, highvoltage
<EmxBA> add me to Jabber
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: aaah, where do you set that?
<HedgeMage> EmxBA: I don't use gmail/gtalk, I have my own jabber server... add me as hedgemage@jabber.binaryredneck.net
<EmxBA> i added you too
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: in  4.6 or 4.7?   brb
<highvoltage> EmxBA: you can add yourself to https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-advocacy , if you feel ready for commitment :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: 4.7
<EmxBA> everyone: how old are you
<EmxBA> you mean if i feel that i am ready to join Edubuntu community
<EmxBA> officialy
<EmxBA> :d
<EmxBA> expect me to translate that site in few days
<EmxBA> i'll join #edubuntu again
<EmxBA> :D
<highvoltage> EmxBA: great!
<EmxBA> highvoltage, i gotta go
<EmxBA> see ya soon
<pygi> JaneW, poke
<pygi> ogra, poke
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: just a sec and I'll look, they moved a lot in 4.7
<ogra> pygi, you just missed the bosnian edubuntu lug 
<pygi> ogra, ah, well :)
<pygi> ogra, would we like to get one laptop from that "one laptop per child" so we could see if software our students work out, works on them? :)
<highvoltage> ogra: hey, i'll never say no to another enthusiastic edubuntite wanting to contribute
<highvoltage> (even if he's a 15-year-old-one-man-lug)
<ogra> highvoltage, i didt say anybody should have said no ...
<highvoltage> ogra: sorry, didn't mean to imply that :)
<ogra> pygi, i bet we'll get some of these anyway directly from the project
<ogra> highvoltage, ;)
<pygi> ogra, perhaps, but do we want 1 at least
<ogra> pygi, there is something going on behind the scene with edubuntu atm.
<pygi> ogra, oh really? so we cant know that I guess :P
<ogra> not even i know concrete things, but there is something exciting to come through the edgy cycle
* LaserJock plays some mysterious sounding music in the background
<HedgeMage> LOL
<pygi> nice ogra 
<pygi> hey HedgeMage ;)
<highvoltage> *sigh*
* highvoltage hates surprises
<LaserJock> me to
<pygi> suprises are nice ;)
<highvoltage> i mean, i get impatient when 'something big is going to happen in x months'. it's like being 4 years old and waiting for Christmas again all over :)
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<highvoltage> like those extra six weeks until dapper was released.
<pygi> highvoltage, you say there is no santa? :'(
<LaserJock> highvoltage: except sometimes the suprises are so nice as presents
<ogra> pygi, but probably a laptop for community testing would be nice 
<pygi> ogra, ok, I shall try to get one or two
<highvoltage> pygi: yes, virginia
<ogra> sure
<pygi> ogra, google offer :)
<ogra> yes, saw that
<pygi> oki, I'll send a message a lill' later today
<pygi> in like hour or so
<pygi> (who from the community wants laptop btw.?)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: Hmmm... I can't find the setting I was thinking of... either I'm remembering a tidbit from a long-past version, or I'm totally nuts.
* pygi is back in like 2 hours ;)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok, np
<highvoltage> pygi: what's this laptop you're talking about? is it x86 based?
<HedgeMage> I'd love to get my hands on one of those to test with, and to show a couple of school districts like my mom's (poorest school district in the least-funded state in america) what is possible.
<LaserJock> least-funded? really?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> WA?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: No, illinois
<HedgeMage> that's where I grew up
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun> there are a lot of those, though, so I'm not sure the superlative is that precise. Once you reach a point, it's all just "really poor"
<LaserJock> yeah
<HedgeMage> crimsun: Actually, I have stats on the $/student for the past 10 years, my use of the superlative is correct.
<crimsun> having spent a year teaching in rural NC, yeah, some portions are "really poor"
<crimsun> HedgeMage: I'm not arguing with you.
<crimsun> I'm saying that statistics are all and well, but really, poverty just overpowers all that
<HedgeMage> ahh okay.
<HedgeMage> in other words... once you get X poor, poor and poorest is kind of moot?
<crimsun> correct
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> I get where you're coming from.
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: how does MT and NV rate?
<highvoltage> i sometimes have a tough time explaining to people in south africa that there are poor areas in the US as well
<crimsun> highvoltage: yeah, perception is a huge block
<highvoltage> crimsun: where are you located?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: Nevada is way up there, but their numbers are skewed due to the Las Vagas area, so I don't know what a "typical" NV scool is funded like
<crimsun> and vice versa, some USA citizens find it difficult to believe that there are poor areas in the US (?!)
<crimsun> highvoltage: NC, USA
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I'd have to look at MT, I don't know it off the top of my head.
<highvoltage> crimsun: ok, i don't know much about that area, except that it's more or less in the middle. /me wikipedias
<LaserJock> crimsun: I think the definition of poor is somewhat interesting too
<crimsun> LaserJock: true
<highvoltage> well, i define 'poor' as being under-resourced
<highvoltage> where 'rich' implies some kind of overflow
<highvoltage> (in terms of resources)
<LaserJock> I've lived all my life under the poverty level and I really don't have any complaints
<LaserJock> I went to college
<LaserJock> I'm doing ok
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: I grew up under that level, too, but (I'm sad to say) most kids where I grew up were poorer.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hmm, interesting. I would think that you could never be in an "overflow" state. you will always find things to spend resources on
<crimsun> I think [the perception of]  freedom of mobility has something to do with "poor," too
<LaserJock> yeah, that makes sense
<Burgwork> if you truly want poor, take a look at any native reservation in Canada or the US
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgwork> the conditions there are almost third world
<highvoltage> my parents had lots of money until i was about 12. in a period of 3 months, they got divorced, lost all our money, made lots of debt, and all my pets died.
<LaserJock> bummer
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: Heh, that may be true in WA, MI, etc. but in IL they have money coming out of their ears.
<highvoltage> i went from having everything to having nothing, and it took just about another 12 years to recover from that.
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, money does not equal good quality of living
<highvoltage> but it made me who i am, and i knwo there's nothing to be afriad of. whatever happens, i know i can recover from it, which is probably why i don't mind taking big risks.
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: This is America... food, shelter, education, etc. can all be had for a price.
<LaserJock> Burgwork: yeah, honestly I wish they would get rid of the reservations in the US. They only seem to hurt the people that live on them.
<Burgwork> LaserJock, yep, but there is a serious lack of a better solutin
<LaserJock> Burgwork: to be honest, I think just getting rid of them would be better than what they have now
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: LaserJock there are some good points to them... some reservations (like the one in WI where my cousin studied) aren't impoverished and do manage to preserve a culture that mainstream America has all but eliminated.
<Burgwork> yep
<LaserJock> perhaps, I seriously doubt anything but eliminating the reservation system will work for the ones in MT, they are close to extinction, I beleive
<Burgwork> anyway, this is a politically charged thing that we might want to avoid
<LaserJock> ok, sure
<Burgwork> needless to say, regardless of the future, these are groups that badly need Edubuntu
<Burgwork> we can also help the bigger ones with language revival
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: nice swing back on topic :)
<Burgwork> indeed
<LaserJock> yeah, I'd love so see Edubuntu get into the tribal colleges
<highvoltage> wha'ts a tribal college?
<highvoltage> is that where survivors learn to backstab? :)
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, that would be straying back into the political side of thigns
<LaserJock> colleges that the Native Americans set up
<highvoltage> what i like about edubuntu, it seems destined to bacome the stage (read: standard) to bring in educational innovation, and content, etc. which means that it sets itself up to become an educational standard.
<jjjjjjj> if i am on xubuntu now... can i upgrade or switch over to edubuntu?
<crimsun> hmm, speaking of which, I wonder if I can work edubuntu into the curriculum
<highvoltage> jjjjjjj: yes, you can.
<HedgeMage> jjjjjjj: sure
<LaserJock> crimsun: yes, do it. :-)
<highvoltage> jjjjjjj: you can type 'sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop'
<jjjjjjj> via the sudo apt-get.... got it.
<HedgeMage> brb, TT and I are going to make egg salad :)
<highvoltage> jjjjjjj: and it will install the edubuntu meta-pakckage. that doesn't give you schooltool and ltsp, etc. but you might not want that.
<crimsun> LaserJock: oh it would be fairly easy here at A&T in compsci, but as for the educational curricula of elementary/middle/high school ed, that would take a lot more work
<jjjjjjj> but if i did i can get it from the repositories?
<LaserJock> ok, I need to do some actual work.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: is there any chance you can get me a copy of the edubuntu.org theme so I can see if anything needs to be added/tweaked to support the i18n module?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: sure
* highvoltage learns that NC isn't middle america at all
<Burgwork> highvoltage, uhhh...
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/clugwiki.tar
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: sorry, this one: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/files/edubuntu.tar
<HedgeMage> thanks
<jjjjjjj> ~490kB/s  for getting edubuntu.  not too bad.
<HedgeMage> brb again, egg salad needs my attention :)
<bddebian> Mmm egg salad
<lucasvo> this one is coo: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2511182815035599431
<lucasvo> *cool
<lucasvo> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=277241297934458807
* HedgeMage enjoys a delicious egg salad sandwich
* HedgeMage looks around for some pickles
* LaserJock dislikes eggs immensly. pickles are ok though :-)
* highvoltage dislike onions and greenpeppers ('dislike' is putting it mildly)
<LaserJock> ohhh, I love onions
<LaserJock> and garlic too
<highvoltage> and olives, they are quite bad too
<LaserJock> yes, +1 for the olives nastiness
<bddebian> NO..  Pickles and olives r t3h r0XX0r! :-)
<lucasvo> depends on what olives
<highvoltage> green ones, black ones, round ones... they are all quite nasty, imho
<highvoltage> i think it's basically anything bitter that i don't like. salt, sour and sweet. those i like intensely.
* highvoltage finds it strange that things seem to always turn to food eventually on #edubuntu :)
<LaserJock> yes
<HedgeMage> LOL
<HedgeMage> all that coding makes us hungry!
<LaserJock> I like most of those types of things except olives and mushrooms
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: if you don't like egg salad, what do you eat your pickles with? grilled cheese?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> any kind of sandwich
<LaserJock> except maybe PB&J
<LaserJock> I like pickles just by themselves too
<pygi> ogra, not really sure we should request one of those laptops when some people might need it more then we do :-/
<LaserJock> how many are they giving away?
<highvoltage> pygi: what laptops are these you're talking about? i wouldn't request one for myself, i just want to know mor
<highvoltage> *more
<Burgwork> uhh, afaik, the laptop give away is over
<lucasvo> ahh, mushrooms
<lucasvo> they are del.icio.us
<lucasvo> :)
<lucasvo> uhh
<lucasvo> Lag: 240 (??)
<Burgwork> it happened last Aug
<HedgeMage> grrr... we are out of pickles
* HedgeMage updates her shopping list
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: what pickles do you usually have?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: one laptop per child laptops
<lucasvo> indian pickles?
<highvoltage> ah
<highvoltage> in that case, i would like one :)
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: we usually have dill, bread and butter, and/or sweet pickles in the house
<highvoltage> just to put edubuntu on it and make sure it works properly.
<highvoltage> but ogra would probably be the right person for that
<lucasvo> 22:07 -!- Irssi: Join to #edubuntu was synced in 99 secs
<highvoltage> i'm quite convinced we can do a much better job than red hat
<lucasvo> hm
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> I am really disappointed that MIT chose redhat
<Burgwork> lucasvo, for olpc?
<lucasvo> they were probably bribed
<lucasvo> Burgwork: yes
<lucasvo> :)
<highvoltage> wined and dined.
<Burgwork> no, RH donated money and people
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: supposedly ubuntu people are already talking to them, but ogra didn't have more info for us on it
<lucasvo> Burgwork: canonical/TSF should have doen the same
<Burgwork> lucasvo, probably the talks predate Ubuntu
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> Burgwork: you mean ubuntu didn't exist/wasn't an option when they began with the project?
<HedgeMage> I wonder, is there any plan to offer the olpc laptops for sale at some point?  I doubt my hometown area would see any since everyone seems to think all americans are rich, but if I get a good job soon and could afford it, I would buy 3 or so to start an education project there.
<Burgwork> I would suspect so
<Burgwork> these kind of really large projects take years to get off the ground
<lucasvo> can one also buy them in the richest country of the world? :)
<Burgwork> no
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: where I come from isn't rich, trust me.
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: I mean where I come from
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: ahh I thought you meant the US as a whole.
<lucasvo> I really would like to buy one
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: I am from switzerland
<HedgeMage> ahh, I didn't know that
<HedgeMage> it's so hard to keep track! :)
<lucasvo> I am american and swiss :)
<lucasvo> you are not 100% wrong
<lucasvo> I would even pay more than 100$ for a laptop
<HedgeMage> ditto
<HedgeMage> though, my current laptop was $100 that's the only reason I could afford one
<Burgwork> my current laptop cost me $22 CAD
<LaserJock> dang, mine was USD $850 :(
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: good bargain!  that's a little less than mine.
<Burgwork> it was a Canonical laptop. All I needed to buy was NA power plugs
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: yeah, but mine was broken when I bought it.  I did discover, after purchasing it on the chance I could fix it, I found out it was still under warranty, the previous owner hadn't bothered to check.
<lucasvo> I don't have one at all!!! :(
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: Toshiba fixed it for me
<LaserJock> dang I had to pay to ship my Toshiba back when it was overheating
<lucasvo> http://mailman.laptop.org/pipermail/community-news/2006-June/000008.html
<HedgeMage> really?  was it under warranty?
<lucasvo> that is interesting
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> they fixed it for free but I had to pay to ship it to them
<LaserJock> I thought it was pretty odd
<pygi> highvoltage, one laptop per child
<pygi> sorry for delay in response, I have a huge ISP problems
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: that is odd, they gave me a case number, and I brought it to a local UPS store who packed and shipped it at Toshiba's expense
<highvoltage> pygi: that's fine.
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: yeah, that's what I would have thought. I think it cost me $27 to ship it
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: ick
<highvoltage> bddebian: was bddebian2 also a god?
<bddebian> Nah, he's an idiot too :-)
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> what have i done! C. CatherineCapers is now mailing me with more questions! :)
<pygi> highvoltage, ogra warned you :P
<crimsun> sorry, that's what happens when you respond in a civil manner.
<bddebian> Hehe
<bddebian> Who is CatherineCapers?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: reply with a faked server rejected email message :)
<bddebian> haha
<lucasvo> well olpc would be another architecture to support :)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: that's quite evil, but an idea i'll keep for future use!
<lucasvo> it's a geode processor, isn't it?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, yes
<cbx33> hey all
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> Hi Laser_away 
<lucasvo> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> I mean LaserJock 
<cbx33> hi lucasvo 
<cbx33> my laptop refused to connect to freenode over my mobile :(
<cbx33> connected to blitzed fine
<lucasvo> cbx33: how much do you pay per MB?
<cbx33> a lot
<cbx33> .5p per Kb
<cbx33> LaserJock, there's a small update to gISOMount
<LaserJock> k
<cbx33> fixed another bug
<cbx33> a moajor one
<cbx33> ping pygi 
* lucasvo pays 4 Pounds per MB
<lucasvo> that's about the same
<lucasvo> cbx33: which bug? 
<lucasvo> should I test something?
<cbx33> when you had mounted multiple isos
<cbx33> and clicked close
<cbx33> it asks if you want to unmount them all
<cbx33> if you say yes, it doesn;t
<cbx33> it only unmounts the first one
<LaserJock> doh :-)
<cbx33> yeh it was due to a stupid return True
<cbx33> and another return False that wasn't properly  indented
<cbx33> but it's all fixed now
<cbx33> LaserJock, I talked to ogra about packaging
<LaserJock> yeah?
<cbx33> and he mentioned about not using setup.py for the ones he's packaged
<cbx33> just using a .install
<cbx33> so...i dunno:S
<LaserJock> yeah, sounds reasonable
<cbx33> I'll take a look at that tomorrow probably
<LaserJock> you would want to have something if you want more than Ubuntu to be able to use it
<cbx33> using your excellent guide
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> I also want to talk to you about feature freeze
<cbx33> I'd like gisomount to be available for edgy
<cbx33> wat do you think?
<Burgwork> cbx33, write a spec and get it approved
<cbx33> Burgwork, you think?
<LaserJock> naw, we don't need a spec, IMO
<Burgwork> if you want to get it in, you need something
<cbx33> even in Universe?
<Burgwork> ah, by deafult
<cbx33> It won;t get in by default
<cbx33> it's not a good enough package
<LaserJock> this isn't an Ubuntu specific program either
<cbx33> true true
<Burgwork> aim high
<cbx33> What do you think LaserJock 
<cbx33> Mr Co-Author
<LaserJock> I think we should get it feature full and stable, then package it and then write a Main inclusion report if we want to
<LaserJock> Mr Co-Author who hasn't written a single line of code :/
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> I'm getting there
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> that's a much higher bar
<cbx33> LaserJock, when do you think we should freeze?
<crimsun> (initially)
<crimsun> I would package it, NEW it into universe, then anastacia it into main
<LaserJock> crimsun: enlighten us, oh, wise one
<crimsun> (just did :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that's what I was thinking. Did I say it wrong?
<crimsun> LaserJock: not wrong per se, but the phrasing seems like you guys wanted to package it directly into main
<cbx33> anyone know why freenode timed out when i tried to connect using irssi over my mobile?
<cbx33> crimsun, not at all :p
<lucasvo> cbx33: I had problems with it as well
<LaserJock> crimsun: no, I want to get it into Universe first
<cbx33> drat
<lucasvo> I had horrible lag and than a reconnect
<lucasvo> cbx33: were you able to connect to other irc servers?
<cbx33> mine never got it
<cbx33> I got into blitzed
<lucasvo> what time?
<cbx33> that worked fine
<cbx33> hmm....
<crimsun> LaserJock: yep, that's the route I'd choose
<cbx33> about 5-6 hours ago
<lucasvo> oh, in that case I don' tknow
<cbx33> he
<cbx33> h
<cbx33> so LaserJock when do you think we should freeze development
<LaserJock> hehe, when it's ready ;-)
<cbx33> yeh but could keep adding features till the cows come home
<simp> while trying to change the permissions of a folder/file/partition i get an error saying that i don't have access to these settings. it is FAT32 partition and i'm logged in as the "admin" user(the one that is created while the installtion)
<cbx33> we need a cut off point for the release
<lucasvo> cbx33: no, I wouldn't do that
<lucasvo> I would just do as much as possible in the next few weeks
<lucasvo> and if there is no more time left for edgy begin to package it and fix bugs
<LaserJock> cbx33: throw up the features we've got on a wiki, then give me the URL and I'll add the features I want, and then we can figure it out
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> two secs
<cbx33> I'll put it on my wiki
<cbx33> unless you think it could go on ubuntu?
<cbx33>  /should?
<LaserJock> I'd rather not if we can help it since it really isn't an Ubuntu specific app
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> LaserJock, http://www.progbox.co.uk/cbx/index.php/GISOMount
<cbx33> go crazy
<cbx33> I gotta get some sleep, LaserJock if you could add your features, I can get started on those
<cbx33> ;)
<LaserJock> you shouldn't say that exactly
<cbx33> see y'all tomorrow
<LaserJock> cya
<cbx33> LaserJock, totally go nutes
#edubuntu 2006-06-06
<Burgwork> hey Amaranth , magnon 
<jjjjjjj> hmm, i did a sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop from xubuntu and I still have the xfce desktop.  there are some added apps in the "start menu".
<HedgeMage> jjjjjjj: you have to tell it that you want to start gnome by default if you want to see the edubuntu gnome theme
<jjjjjjj> ahh
<jjjjjjj> but i'm okay sticking with xfce?
<LaserJock> you can do whatever you want
<HedgeMage> jjjjjjj: then you can put the edubuntu backgrounds in if you like, but you won't see the theme
<HedgeMage> jjjjjjj: that's the only real difference
<bddebian> Hello
<HedgeMage> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello HedgeMage
<jsgotangco> good morning
<aaron|feldman> so edubuntu is ubuntu with ltsp added right?
<jsgotangco> morning
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> but we also added some educational applications
<pitux> is possible install controlaula in edubuntu
<pitux> or any similar software
<aaron|feldman> ok
<aaron|feldman> just curious
<aaron|feldman> didn'
<aaron|feldman> t
<aaron|feldman> see any reference to ltsp on the edubuntu web site
<aaron|feldman> using K12ltsp
<jsgotangco> its actually a new type of ltsp with the help of the ltsp people (jim and scott)
<aaron|feldman> and it was helpful to be able to tap into both the k12ltsp stuff  and the ltsp stuff
<aaron|feldman> but if I had started out with edubuntu I would have never known ltsp existed
<aaron|feldman> at least at first
<jsgotangco> pitux: it should work, but how integration goes, no idea yet, we did consider it before though, probably will again
<aaron|feldman> is edubuntu ltsp 4.2?
<aaron|feldman> was considering trying it out
<jsgotangco> no this is not 4.2 nor 4.1 its entirely different
<aaron|feldman> really, interesting
<jsgotangco> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/MueKow
<aaron|feldman> does this mean that ltsp in edubuntu has forked from ltsp
<aaron|feldman> some of the 4.2 stuff sounds cool
<aaron|feldman> local media etc
<aaron|feldman> i looked at that wiki entry, they say something about if this MueKow works out it will likely turn into ltsp-5
<aaron|feldman> what I'm trying to figure out here is this:
<aaron|feldman> i know that eventually k12ltsp will integrate whatever ltsp implements 
<aaron|feldman> is that true for edubuntu
<jsgotangco> im pretty positive that will happen
<jsgotangco> like local media, etc.
<aaron|feldman> k, cool
<jsgotangco> but with current edubuntu, its possible to install LTSP without even doing anything and it already works
<jsgotangco> the most that you will do is actually edit dhcpd3.conf
<aaron|feldman> as in I can use ltspconfig 4.2 and it will be fine?
<aaron|feldman> then that is very cool
<jsgotangco> hmmm i am not sure
<jsgotangco> you better have to ask ogra or post to the list
<aaron|feldman> ok
<aaron|feldman> thanks
* HedgeMage peeks in
<crimsun> TT's asleep?
<HedgeMage> crimsun: will be soon
<HedgeMage> crimsun: his father has an aversion to egg salad and so didn't feed him while I was gone
* HedgeMage rolls her eyes
<HedgeMage> well, they had snack food but no actual dinner
<crimsun> d'oh
<HedgeMage> ahh, finally in bed
<HedgeMage> only 40 minutes late... tomorrow will be fun.
* HedgeMage rolls her eyes
<cbx33> good moaning
<lucasvo> hi
<jsgotangco> moaning?
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> you sure had a nice morning eh
<jsgotangco> intense action to start the day right
<lucasvo> yeah
<lucasvo> it's depressing here, I got up, I have 1/2 hour left till school starts and what do I have to do? 
<lucasvo> learn vocabular in french 
<lucasvo> :(
<cbx33> lucasvo, oh joy
* cbx33 goes to make breakfast
<cbx33> any one think of a reason why connecting to freenode with irssi timedout on my mobile?
<cbx33> can i specify a timeout period for irssi?
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> right I'm off for breakkie
<cbx33> see you guys later
* HedgeMage peeks in
* HedgeMage peeks in
<pygi> mornin' all
<distanceisdeath> what is edubuntu?
<distanceisdeath> im getting it
<Burgundavia> distanceisdeath: you understand now?
<distanceisdeath> understand what
<distanceisdeath> its still installing
<distanceisdeath> hopefully its cool
<distanceisdeath> !edbuntu
<ubotu> distanceisdeath: Syntax error in line 1. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/
<distanceisdeath> mann
<Burgundavia> !edubuntu
<ubotu> Edubuntu is the education version of ubuntu (essentially ubuntu + educational apps + ltsp).  Website - http://www.edubuntu.org. Tour - http://edubuntu.org/tour.html
<distanceisdeath> so what is the point?
<Burgundavia> of Edubuntu?
<distanceisdeath> do i get more stuff?
<pygi> distanceisdeath, more stuff compared to what?
<distanceisdeath> i dont know
<distanceisdeath> haha
<pygi> o joy
<distanceisdeath> im  really bored
<distanceisdeath> i have nothing better to do
<jsgotangco> thanks
<distanceisdeath> your welcome
<distanceisdeath> so anyone here use a psx emulator?
<jsgotangco> i have a ps2 at home
<distanceisdeath> thats cool
<distanceisdeath> i have a ps2 at my dads house
<distanceisdeath> and i feel like playing final fantasy
<distanceisdeath> because im bored
<jsgotangco> actually
<jsgotangco> im getting bored now just hearing your story
<jsgotangco> :/
<distanceisdeath> thanks
<distanceisdeath> so you want to help with that emu?
<distanceisdeath> whatever
<distanceisdeath> ill just look for some cool themes
<distanceisdeath> you have any?
<distanceisdeath> how do you install a splash screen?
<irvin> i really love the default edubuntu splash screen
<pygi> jsgotangco, :-/
<distanceisdeath> you guys kind of suck
<pygi> distanceisdeath, thank you very much
<distanceisdeath> mhm
<distanceisdeath> pygi is kind of cool though
<distanceisdeath> pygi what is that?
<pygi> distanceisdeath, no I am not, and now beat it out of this channel if you are going to insult people
<distanceisdeath> im not
<distanceisdeath> what does pygi stand for
<cbx33> mornin all
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> HedgeMage: got a problem wondering if you could help
<HedgeMage> wow, the chan came to life while I was reading random stuff, funny how I miss everything
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I will if I can, what's up?
<cbx33> I'm trying to connect to freenode via my laptop over GPRS
<cbx33> but it keeps timing out
<cbx33> I can get into blitzed
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<cbx33> but not freenode
<cbx33> I'm using irssi
<cbx33> any ideas?
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> can you /msg me the IP you have on there?  I can see if there's anything funny to be seen on our end
<cbx33> hmm....
<cbx33> not sure what it is....I don;t think it's static
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<cbx33> I'll try to connec right now
<HedgeMage> okay
<cbx33> and see if I can pass you one
* HedgeMage turns on the insanely-verbose-debugging-thing
<pygi> hey cbx33, HedgeMage 
<cbx33> how do i do that?
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: you can't, I just did it
<cbx33> hi pygi you wanted me the other yesterday?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: it's a network staffer only thing
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> ok
<pygi>  cbx33, other yesterday? :)
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> ok dialing out
<cbx33> gimme a minute
<HedgeMage> ok
<pygi> Not sure, but what would other yesterday be?
<pygi> The day before yesterday? :P
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> yesterday
<cbx33> I was going to day the other day
<pygi> ah, ok :)
<cbx33> connecting HedgeMage 
<cbx33> connection is established
* HedgeMage watching for crazy stuff
<HedgeMage> try to connect to freenode
<cbx33> couldn;t look up host name
<cbx33> and that's as far as it will get
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<cbx33> I get the no ident auth message
<HedgeMage> well, couldn't look up host name is a DNS problem
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> but then I'd expect that seeing as I'mdailing out via a mobly
<cbx33> then it says
<cbx33> ERROR Closing Link: 127.0.0.1 (Connection Timed Out)
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<HedgeMage> let me see if listen is off
<cbx33> Irssi: Connection lost to irc.freenode.net
<HedgeMage> listen's on.
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<cbx33> as I say, I know it works
<cbx33> cos I can get into blitzed
<HedgeMage> cbx33: try connecting to an individual server instead of main rotation (ie niven.freenode.net ) 
<cbx33> ok hang on
<cbx33> same HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<HedgeMage> hang on one sec
<cbx33> and now it's cycling onto another server
<cbx33> and timed out again
<HedgeMage> hmm
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'm assuming the lappy works fine on other connections?
<cbx33> yup
<HedgeMage> hmmm
* HedgeMage ponders
<cbx33> as I said I can get into the blitzed server
<cbx33> blitzed.org
<cbx33> and happily chatted on there
<HedgeMage> no, I meant can it connect to freenode using, say, the connection you're using to talk to me now?
<cbx33> oh yeh
<HedgeMage> okay
* HedgeMage ponders
<cbx33> i use it at home
<cbx33> all the time
<cbx33> really weird
<HedgeMage> cbx33: do me a favor and ping irc.freenode.net and make sure it's resolving for you
<cbx33> it resolves because it shows the ip when connecting
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<cbx33> and it actially connects up
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> it dies at the ident thing?
<cbx33> would running an identd server help?
<cbx33> yes
<JaneW> http://www.starryhope.com/tech/2006/first-24-hours-with-edubuntu-606/
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> it shouldn't be neccessary
<HedgeMage> I certainly don't here
* HedgeMage ponders
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<HedgeMage> cbx33: give me a sec, I'm going to bug a more experienced staffer
<cbx33> thank you HedgeMage 
<cbx33> mornin highvoltage 
<highvoltage> morning cbx33 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: is there any chance you can paste me the last line or three before closing connection...
<HedgeMage> ?
<cbx33> um...yeh sure
<cbx33> hangon lemme dial out again
<HedgeMage> sorry :/
<cbx33> I'll pm you
<HedgeMage> ok
<blue-frog> nice I see that the install in text mode has been changed to install to HDD, ty ogra, you couldn't believe how many people don't know what to do witht the ubuntu install in text mode on the fr channel
<blue-frog> basically they think that the only way to install is thru the livecd (which I recommend anyway as it is simpler ffor most ppl
<HedgeMage> I don't trust the livecd installer yet... more a gut feeling than any logical reason, though.  I have not heard of any major problems
<HedgeMage> totally irrational :P
<blue-frog> i guess :)
<blue-frog> had only on glitch with ubiquity, but restartting it, corrected the problem
<blue-frog> the partition window once "jumped out" of the main window
<cbx33> i wonder if they fixed the cancel thing
<HedgeMage> cbx33: the response from the experts is "too much lag"
<HedgeMage> cbx33: you could try running an identd to cut down on the time at that stage of connect, it may or may not help but it's worth a shot
<cbx33> how do i do that
<HedgeMage> cbx33: what distro? *ubuntu ?
<cbx33> indeed
<HedgeMage> hang on I'll poke around the repos for an identdaemon
<HedgeMage> cbx33: judging solely by the descriptions in synaptic (since the one I used to use back in the '90s when I ran one is long gone) I'd say try nullidentd or slidentd  they both are standalone and claim to be quick, returning a set string instead of anything crazy 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> HedgeMage: do they require configuring?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'd imagine so, but minimal.
<HedgeMage> cbx33: pick one, install, and we'll attack it together :)
<cbx33> aww 
<cbx33> thanx highvoltage 
<cbx33> HedgeMage: 
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> my tab button didn't press
<HedgeMage> lol :)
<HedgeMage> np
<greebo> hi all, is there any edubuntu CD artwork? I'm getting some cds pressed for an education expo in Austrlaia
<greebo> Australia rather :)
<HedgeMage> greebo: sure, let me find the link...
<greebo> HedgeMage, thanks :)
<HedgeMage> greebo: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DIYMarketing about halfway down the page (I didn't link directly because I don't know your preferred file format)
<greebo> also, I'm working on a research project looking at the use of FOSS in research and education, I've put up some really useful links to documents about FOSS in education that may be useful to you guys
<greebo> http://ask-oss.mq.edu.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=61
<greebo> HedgeMage, thanks!
<cbx33> greebo: did you check out the Using Edubuntu documentation
<cbx33> http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<cbx33> may be of some use
<greebo> cbx33, thanks!
<greebo> hmm, I might use a different cd artwork. Something with the kids on it
<HedgeMage> greebo: cool
<HedgeMage> greebo: if you do, please post to DIYmarketing for others to share
<greebo> HedgeMage, sure :)
<HedgeMage> thanks!
<HedgeMage> that reminds me, I need to get the pics of the cake developed.
<HedgeMage> and scanned
* HedgeMage really wants a digital camera
* jsgotangco rests a bit
<jsgotangco> brb
<greebo> HedgeMage, know where I can get a high quality version of the kids in the edubuntu circle?
<greebo> jsgotangco, heya :)
<jsgotangco> pia!
<greebo> :)
<HedgeMage> greebo: ummmm... no clue... ask jsgotangco he's good at that sort of thing
<jsgotangco> i dont have it either but you could probbably ask silbs
<jsgotangco> its from a professional print job and the wiki page doesn't have the hi res pdf either
<jimjimovich2> hi all
<jimjimovich2> can someone point me to the instructions for making default desktop settings for new users?
<jimjimovich2> i know i read it somewhere before, but can't find it now
<greebo> jsgotangco, where does silbs hang out?
<greebo> where in irc-land :)
<jsgotangco> #canonical probably
<greebo> jsgotangco, cheers
<jsgotangco> ask jdub! doh
<HedgeMage> jimjimovich2: just make a user, set it up as you want the default to be, and copy to /etc/skel
<jimjimovich2> HedgeMage: Thanks! I just forgot what folder to copy it to
<HedgeMage> :) np
<jimjimovich2> HedgeMage: copy the whole home folder, right?
* HedgeMage nods
<jimjimovich2> great.
<cbx33> HedgeMage: hmmm
<cbx33> can't get it working at the mo
<cbx33> still dog slow
<HedgeMage> grr :(
<cbx33> can't seem to see if the xinetd service is running
<HedgeMage> cbx33: make sure you have it installed if you need it... the two I pointed to claim to be standalone identd's that won't require inetd... however, something more traditional/xinetd-reliant may work better
<HedgeMage> I haven't run identd in AGES
<cbx33> hang on i spotted an error
* HedgeMage pounces the error
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> HedgeMage: it's running but not working
<cbx33> I'll have to try another day
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> too much to do right now
* HedgeMage nods
<cbx33> thanx for the help HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: np
<cbx33> I can't understand why it's not working
<greebo> HedgeMage, heya, the cd artwork image I made will be at the below address for a while. I don't have access rights to change the marketing page :)
<greebo> http://www.ask-oss.mq.edu.au/dmdocuments/edubuntu-cdimage.psd
<greebo> it isn't anything special, plain and to the point :)
<HedgeMage> cbx33: if I go ahead and apply for membership this coming meeting, will you be around to cheer me on?
<HedgeMage> greebo: all you need is a launchpad registration... it's not restricted to certain people
<HedgeMage> what's .psd anyhow?
<cbx33> HedgeMage: of course
<HedgeMage> cbx33: yay :D
<cbx33> I'll be a HedgeMage advocate :D
<greebo> HedgeMage, it can be opened in gimp, and has loads of layers. Not sure :) I just used a cd template given to me in that format
<cbx33> HedgeMage: it could be a firewall issue
<cbx33> port 113 not open
<HedgeMage> greebo: ahh I was just wondering because I thought that might be a photoshop thingy and we try to avoid proprietary stuff
<HedgeMage> greebo: lemmee look
<HedgeMage> cbx33: yep, could be
<greebo> erk, have to go, back in a while
<HedgeMage> ok ttyl
* pygi will support HedgeMage to become a member ;)
<HedgeMage> yep, psd is Photoshop
<HedgeMage> pygi: Yay! thanks
<HedgeMage> greebo: if you don't know how to convert to .xcf I can do it for you later if you remind me
<greebo> nice that gimp just deals with it :) that rocks!
<greebo> back in a bit
<HedgeMage> :D
<HedgeMage> pygi: oddly, my wheedling over wether or not to do it this meeting was decided by the fact that I need something to take my mind off of the jobs I've applied for and whether I'll get something good
<pygi> HedgeMage, you have to support me as well :P
<HedgeMage> pygi: hehe of course!
<cbx33> does any one have identd running on a server i can try to telnet to
<HedgeMage> sorry, not here
<cbx33> ahhhh, could it be binding it to the eth0 interface
<cbx33> instead of the ppp0 interface ?
<pygi> HedgeMage, you must do the paperwork :P
<cbx33> HedgeMage: yes, do you have a wiki page?
<pygi> cbx33, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> pygi: working on it as we speak
<HedgeMage> I also need to get myself on the agenda
<HedgeMage> I wasn't going to do this yet until I realized how much I'm obsessing over the job thing
<HedgeMage> I need a replacement obsession :P
<cbx33> HedgeMage: it must be a firewall issue
<cbx33> it seems to be working 
<cbx33> i tested locally
<HedgeMage> cbx33: weird
<cbx33> unless it is binding it to eth0 as opposed to ppp0
<cbx33> but i don;t know how I'd check that
<HedgeMage> ifconfig
<cbx33> hmm....
<ogra> highvoltage, seen the latest mail from our PXE friend ?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: still about?
<cbx33> HedgeMage: yes
<pygi> ogra, what she sent again? :-/
<cbx33> enlighten me...our PZE friend?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: see the -devel mailing list
<pygi> cbx33, PXE :P
<ogra> pygi, *he* sends personal mails to JaneW and me since edubuntu exists ... several in a month
<JaneW> nod
<pygi> ah, he :P Yes, I know he does that
<pygi> but whats the new message?
<ogra> if you would print them each would fill about 10 pages in small print
<pygi> joy :)
<ogra> he apologizes, the ltsp folkes have told hime he's wrong
<HedgeMage> cbx33: BearPerson said that if you're trying to connect via the lappy with a nick already in use ( cbx33 for example ) it greatly increases the chance of suffering that time out, so use a seperate nick for that connection and see if it helps
<ogra> (drop 'e's where appropriate in that sentence)
* HedgeMage unsticks ogra's vowels
<HedgeMage> :P
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage: hmmm...that is an idea
<HedgeMage> ogra: really? I wouldn't have seen an apology coming.  cool
<ogra> no, its PM
<ogra> and i wont bother the ML with that lengthy thing
<cbx33> ping lucasvo 
<HedgeMage> ogra: no, I meant that I didn't expect it.  I know it wasn't on the ML
<ogra> ah
<jsgotangco> hey
* HedgeMage wonders who else she can recruit for her edubuntu membership for HedgeMage fan club
* ogra will join happily
<cbx33> HedgeMage: how many do you have?
<HedgeMage> ogra: thanks!
* cbx33 is upgrading his lappy to dapper :D
<cbx33> hooray
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, i did
<HedgeMage> cbx33: hmmm... you, pygi, ogra, and some newbie I helped earlier today so far.
<ogra> highvoltage, i just saw youre on CC for all of them :)
<highvoltage> at least it says 'PXE wrapup', so perhaps she has some closure now
<jsgotangco> PXE?
<highvoltage> ogra: i think i have a new fan :)
<ogra> haha
<HedgeMage> lol
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> i think jims shouting was pretty helpful *g*
<HedgeMage> hehe
<jsgotangco> where is this wonderful thread?
<ogra> jsgotangco, it was a PM thread
<jsgotangco> ohhhh
<ogra> going on alongside the ML one
<cbx33> heheh
<pygi> HedgeMage, you have anough :P
<RobinShepheard> Hello All
<highvoltage> hi RobinShepheard. i just replied to your email this morning
<highvoltage> (about the screenshot)
<HedgeMage> pygi: how many is enough?
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: Ahh I have not had a chance to pick up my email as yet, will do in just a sec
* HedgeMage sidles up to highvoltage and tries to look membership-worthy, offering him a fan club button
<cbx33> HedgeMage: you have enough
<pygi> HedgeMage, you can even drop me :P
<cbx33> I had less
<ogra> cbx33, you cant have enough 
<HedgeMage> pygi: aww but I like you I want to keep you :P
<pygi> ogra, he can always bring all people from all ubuntu channels ;)
<HedgeMage> pygi: I'm a "she" :P
<ogra> pygi, !
<pygi> HedgeMage, yes, I know :P
<HedgeMage> :P
<pygi> Just talking about someone "random" :)
<pygi> ogra, any objections on that? :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: ahh
<ogra> pygi, feel free to crowd the channel
<pygi> ogra, nah, just joking :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, what? !!
<RobinShepheard> Daft question, I am installing and running Edubuntu on a selection of different machines, is there a utility you use to dump a file with all the hardware details in?
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: "lspci" from the command line has gobs of great info!
<ogra> RobinShepheard, look in the device manager
<RobinShepheard> I was thinking of something that can grab the entire data out of device manager and write it to, say a text file
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: "lspci | cat textfilename"
<HedgeMage> though I haven't played with the device manager much, don't know if it has stuff from proc and such too... 
<RobinShepheard> lspci doesn list things like the motherboard chipset though
<RobinShepheard> I was thinking that if there was a standard utility any install could dump the data out
<RobinShepheard> it would make it very easy to collate info on what hardware works and what doesn
<RobinShepheard> doh doesnt
* HedgeMage ponders
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: you could do a dump of /var/log/messages  (bootup info, stuff that's detected, etc)
<HedgeMage> there's a ton in there, but it's easy to parse
<HedgeMage> sorry, I'm so non-gui
<RobinShepheard> ahh good point, didnt think of that. 
<HedgeMage> there's probably a graphical thing for that somewhere
<RobinShepheard> dunno, I cant really say I am from the gui
* cbx33 ponders too
<RobinShepheard> it is just I have access to about 10-15 different boxes, all with different hardware
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: heh, good... some people are so scared of the command line... I'm just *used* to it
* HedgeMage is probably showing her age
<RobinShepheard> I was just thinking I can create a catalogue of what I have here, as it may come in handy with testing any of the apps.
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> definitely
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: Cant say I am scared of the command line, but then the gui wasnt much use with redhat 5
<HedgeMage> /var/log/messages has all the info you need.
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: heh, I started with slackware in early 1995
<RobinShepheard> around the same sort of time then
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> I guess... can never keep track of redhat releases
<HedgeMage> don't use it, though, so it's kind of moot for me
<HedgeMage> gah! it's 2:35 am !
* HedgeMage needs sleep
* HedgeMage has a toddler who's a morning person
<RobinShepheard> guess all i got to do is work out a parser for /var/log/messages then. Only 10:36am here :)
<pips1> HedgeMage talking about membership reminds me that I want to apply too.
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: LOL have fun
<HedgeMage> I'm off to bed
* HedgeMage waves
<RobinShepheard> bye
<pips1> Edubuntu membership council every first week of the month, right?
<cbx33> pips1: yes
* pips1 waves at HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> pips1: yep
* pips1 checks his own wikipage
<pips1> hmm
* pips1 ponders whether he is ready to apply...
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: just checked my email, I only raised it as I spotted it as I tend to speed read and spotted the piccy and tried to save time rather than read the whole thing
<RobinShepheard> is there a wish list specifically for Edubuntu??
<HedgeMage> RobinShepheard: there's teacher recommended projects, that's about it
<ogra> RobinShepheard, i'mm about to make a list with proposed specs today there is no wikipage specific for edubuntu yet for the summit
<RobinShepheard> ahh ok, I was wondering if it may be possible to automatically include motif libs as standard. It maens it is very easy to install citrix client then.
<RobinShepheard> I realise that it is a fairly specialised request but if means that the schools or offices can still have access to existing windows apps if they really must have them
<ogra> well, thats a question of supportability, not about speccing it :)
<ogra> if our security team approves it will depend on the security history of the specific package
<RobinShepheard> ogra: fair point, ok I didnt know how it worked like that.
<RobinShepheard> just thought that it removes one more hurdle to possible acceptability
<ogra> we have a second criteria specific to edubuntu: "how small is it (and its dependencys)?"
<RobinShepheard> 1 sec
<crimsun> (do you need motif specifically or will lesstif2 suffice?)
<ogra> since we run constantly out of diskspace on the CD
<crimsun> (note that the former does have a security record /and/ is in multiverse)
<ogra> thats what i was suspecting
<RobinShepheard> will have to test again, but last time I tried, I was required to install libmotif3
<RobinShepheard> I dont think it was very big but has 6 dependancies
<RobinShepheard> I will be doing a fresh install later tonight so I can test
<JaneW> cbx33: seen this http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=661&slide=5&title=edubuntu+6.06+screenshots
<JaneW> ?
<JaneW> nice :)
<EmxBA> hi
<EmxBA> hi highvoltage
<EmxBA> do you remember me from yesterday
<EmxBA> :D
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW how are you doing?
<EmxBA> jonathan
<highvoltage> hi EmxBA 
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> yes, i remember you
* JaneW is ok, 'cept for the damn flu
<EmxBA> i know that it is a bit early for chatting
<EmxBA> but i live in Bosnia
<EmxBA> it is 12 PM here
<EmxBA> lol
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i still have a flu myself
<jsgotangco> JaneW: let's blame global warming eh
<highvoltage> EmxBA: it's 12:26 here in South Africa
<cbx33> JaneW: that's excellent
<cbx33> lisa will be pleased
<JaneW> cbx33: :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: hope you get well soon
<EmxBA> highvoltage: you live in Africa?
<ogra> JaneW, what am i supposed to see on the link you posted ? its the chalkboard for me
<highvoltage> EmxBA: yep
<EmxBA> where exactly
<JaneW> ogra: homies theme
<highvoltage> EmxBA: Bellville, Cape Town, South Africa
<ogra> JaneW, not for me it seems
<EmxBA> Cape Town is nice
<highvoltage> EmxBA: you've been here before?
<JaneW> ogra: odd... anyway scroll down...
<EmxBA> highvoltage: no
<ogra> JaneW, ahh, i just saw they moved the thumbnails, i'm just to blind (or 1024x786 are just to small :) )
<JaneW> heh
* JaneW has such high res that all games take less than 1/4 of my screen
<JaneW> I loaded a web game at the gym for my kids they other day and they were like WHOA look how BIG it is!
<ogra> hehe
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> looks like the Homies are creating quite a storm :p
<krishna> showcommands
<EmxBA> i suppose that most of you live in USA
<EmxBA> right
<ogra> EmxBA, not really
<EmxBA> but most of you do
<ogra> i'd guess about 6 ppl in this channel are from the us
<ogra> (rough guess though)
<EmxBA> for example, i live in bosnia
<EmxBA> operator (highvoltage) lives in South Africa
<highvoltage> EmxBA: ogra, jane, and others are just as much operator as me, they just don't show it
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<ogra> :P
<EmxBA> highvoltage: i know, but you don't have to resign of your operator status
<cbx33> can i modify the uid of an nfs mount request
<ogra> EmxBA, we ususalld dont have OPs in this channel, a bunch of us can grap OP if thats needed to kick someone evil out of the channel though
<RobinShepheard> EmxBA: I live in the UK
<ogra> i'm from germany
<pips1> switzerland here :)
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: where abouts?
<cbx33> I'm from UK too
<EmxBA> ok
<cbx33> or did we already have this conversation?
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: Bournemouth :)
<cbx33> oooh not far from me
<cbx33> Southampton
* ogra goes to lunch
<EmxBA> cbx33: i really don't know
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: maybe we should get together for a beer sometime
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> with juliux 
<cbx33> he'll be in london sometime soon
<RobinShepheard> could do, I dont know juliux
<EmxBA> so every wednesday you meet on this channel
<highvoltage> EmxBA: #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> EmxBA: otherwise, we're nearly always here
<JaneW> EmxBA: if you are really lucky you might find EdubuntuGirl here
<JaneW> EmxBA: she rocks
<EmxBA> EdubuntuGirl?
<EmxBA> tell me more about her :D
<cbx33> :( my dapper upgrade didn't go according to plan
<cbx33> I've lost sound
<cbx33> says it can't find any sound devices
<JaneW> cbx33: oh dear
<EmxBA> JaneW: please :D
<EmxBA> lol
<highvoltage> EmxBA: we'll introduce you to her a bit later ;)
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> i am a bit new to this channel
<EmxBA> but i can feel good
<JaneW> EmxBA: :)
<EmxBA> were you there yesterday when i was talking about my project
<EmxBA> skolarci.linux.org.ba
<cbx33> EmxBA: this channel roxks
<EmxBA> educational site about linux
<EmxBA> made for students
<EmxBA> cbx33:yes!
<EmxBA> it is Bosnian
<EmxBA> i've made it
<cbx33> Nice
<EmxBA> in cooperation with Linux User Group of Bosnia and Herzegovina
<EmxBA> in few days it will be translated dto english
<EmxBA> and i will open forum
<cbx33> anyone any ideas how I can get sound back?
<cbx33> ALSA isn;t finding my soundcard, yet it did in breezy
<EmxBA> i've already reviewed Edubuntu 5.10
<EmxBA> :P
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: what sound card is it??
<cbx33> not sure
<cbx33> hang on
<EmxBA> try alsaconf
<EmxBA> maybe you need some extra modules
<EmxBA> highvoltage, can you give me the link where i can add myself to edubuntu list of contributors
<EmxBA> on launchpad.net
<highvoltage> EmxBA: depends where you're contributing to, we have different teams
<highvoltage> long-term contributors may also become edubuntu members.
<EmxBA> i dunno
<EmxBA> you've gave me some link yesterday
<highvoltage> just a sec....
<highvoltage> it was this one: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-advocacy
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: it's an Intel AC97
<EmxBA> you told that you are going to put a link to our site (skolarci) when it becomes translated to English
<highvoltage> yep.
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> we made a deal :D
<highvoltage> i'm not quite sure where that would fit on our site right now, but we'll probably find a place for off-site stories about Edubuntu
<EmxBA> maybe on list of helpers
<EmxBA> and cooperating sites
<EmxBA> skolarci.linux.org.ba is unique in whole world
<highvoltage> well, technically, that's true for any domain name :)
<kholerabbi> read this (http://oliphuant.blogspot.com/) blog about a suggestion for an opensource language learning program - sound, pictures, edutainment. Please!
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: is it a desktop or laptop?
<EmxBA> higvoltage: no, really, simialr projects do not exist
<highvoltage> EmxBA: ok, i'll have to take your word for it, i don't understand any bolivian :/
<highvoltage> EmxBA: tell us a bit more about your project.
<EmxBA> hahah
<EmxBA> lol
<EmxBA> i am not bolivian!!!
<EmxBA> i said "bosnian"
<EmxBA> if you ever heard anything about bosnia
<EmxBA> maybe yugoslavia
<EmxBA> balkan
<EmxBA> south east europe
<EmxBA> bosnian pyramids
<EmxBA> highvoltage: are you owner of edubuntu advocacy team
<EmxBA> i think you are
<EmxBA> founder
<EmxBA> highvoltage: "Subscription request pending approval."
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: laptop
<jsgotangco> hhmmm is June 7 edubuntu council meet?
<cbx33> I would think so
* jsgotangco faints 4am his time
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: I must say my upgrade had no probs on a dell latitude d600. Having said that I have done a full install several times since then
<RobinShepheard> cbx: Daft question, can you see the device under device manager
<highvoltage> EmxBA: approved
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: just checking
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: no it;'s not in there
<cbx33> but doing an lspci finds it
<RobinShepheard> have you tried clicking on the ubuntu device database butt
<RobinShepheard> doh button
<cbx33> that just submits to an online database doesn't it?
<RobinShepheard> it goes through checks first, you can always cancel
<RobinShepheard> first check on mine is soundcard
<cbx33> yeh, no sound
<RobinShepheard> ok
<RobinShepheard> give me a little while...
<EmxB1> hi again
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: i think i may have foudn the issue
<RobinShepheard> go on ...
<cbx33> hmmm
<EmxBA> highvoltage: thanks for approving my candidation for edubuntu-advocacz team
<EmxBA> but i am wondering
<cbx33> well i ran a dpkg-reconfigure on alsa-base
<EmxBA> how to change informations about myself
<EmxBA> karma
<EmxBA> etc
<EmxBA> private information
<cbx33> I'm just gonna reboot
<RobinShepheard> ok see you in a bit
<cbx33> ok I was wrong
<cbx33> it wasn't that
<RobinShepheard> ahh well, worth a try
<cbx33> thing is AC97 is a common sound card
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: when you do a lspci each item starts with some numbers, these relate to the devices subdir in /sys. can you find it in /sys???
<cbx33> yup it's in there
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: one other thought, you dont have a key combination to disable sound do you??
<cbx33>  /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
<RobinShepheard> I know it is a daft questin but it is easy to overlook
<cbx33> I do
<cbx33> but it's not affecting it
<cbx33> I just tried using it...and it just comes up as if no sound card is installed
<RobinShepheard> no offence ment but I sometimes miss things like that
<cbx33> no sure
<cbx33> but it's not working :(
<cbx33> the keys are acknowledged by linux but it won;t do anything
<ogra> cbx33, wait for crimsun to wake up, he's an alsa guy
<cbx33> ahhh excellent
<cbx33> thanks ogra 
<ogra> does it load any snd- modules ?
<RobinShepheard> I wonder if it is the symlinks in the sys directory but I dont really know. Sorry
<cbx33> ogra: it's loaded the whole shebang
<ogra> ok, look with amixer if anything essential is muted
<cbx33> pcm pcm_oss timer page_alloc
<ogra> snd-pcm and snd-pcm-oss i hope 
<cbx33> amixer can't attach
<ogra> else you run oss which is plainly wrong
<EmxBA> see ya in few hours
<EmxBA> i gotta go now
<RobinShepheard> what number do you get next to snd_pcm do you get if you run lsmod | grep -i snd_pcm
<RobinShepheard> that is the second number in the line
<cbx33> 1
<RobinShepheard> here is my output
<RobinShepheard> snd_pcm_oss            53664  0
<RobinShepheard> snd_mixer_oss          18688  1 snd_pcm_oss
<RobinShepheard> snd_pcm                89864  3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss
<RobinShepheard> snd_timer              25220  1 snd_pcm
<RobinShepheard> snd                    55268  14 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
<RobinShepheard> snd_page_alloc         10632  2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33>  looks very similar
<cbx33> I just havn't got the AC97 codec
<RobinShepheard> try modprobe snd_ac97_codec
<RobinShepheard> then check
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> done that
<cbx33> now I get a differenmt mseeage
<cbx33> about gstreamer plugins
<RobinShepheard> is the device now visible in device manager??
<cbx33> just checking
<cbx33> nope
<RobinShepheard> what about if you try going into the mixer??
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I may have it now
<cbx33> I added the intel module too
<cbx33> but all volumes are set to zero
<cbx33> and I can't change them
<cbx33> ok, I have unmuted all devices
<cbx33> but it;s still not working
<cbx33> no sound 
<RobinShepheard> I would guess it is a case of it is not loading a critical module, but I must confess that I dont have a huge amount of experience with this
<RobinShepheard> here is my full list of snd modules
<RobinShepheard> snd_intel8x0           33692  4
<RobinShepheard> snd_ac97_codec         92704  1 snd_intel8x0
<RobinShepheard> snd_ac97_bus            2304  1 snd_ac97_codec
<RobinShepheard> snd_pcm_oss            53664  0
<RobinShepheard> snd_mixer_oss          18688  1 snd_pcm_oss
<RobinShepheard> snd_pcm                89864  3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss
<RobinShepheard> snd_timer              25220  1 snd_pcm
<RobinShepheard> snd                    55268  14 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
<RobinShepheard> snd_page_alloc         10632  2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
<RobinShepheard> have you got the snd_ac97_bus module loaded?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> not sure
<cbx33> I'll check in 2 secs
<RobinShepheard> no probs
<ogra> everybody: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
<ogra> please add ideas at the bottom
<cbx33> mmm
<cbx33> module snd_ac97_bus doesn't exist
<cbx33> apparently
<RobinShepheard> and is you do modprobe snd_ac97_bus??
<RobinShepheard> doh if even
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> FATAL: Module snd_ac97_bus not found
<RobinShepheard> hmmm cant say I have ever built modules for ubuntu
<cbx33> I'll see if crimsun has any ideas
<cbx33> thank you RobinShepheard 
<RobinShepheard> ok, sorry I cant be more help
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: no, thank you for all your help
<RobinShepheard> no problem
<RobinShepheard> I would guess you may have to download kernel source and headers and do a make modules_install, or at least I think that is what the command is
<cbx33> yeh
<RobinShepheard> when you do sort it out, could you please drop me an email on robin.shepheard@swisp.co.uk and let me know what the cure was
<cbx33> yeh sure
<RobinShepheard> cheers
<cbx33> is ther ean easy way to upgrade my kernel on ubuntu>?
<cbx33> like an apt-get
<RobinShepheard> good question, mine was last updated as part of the automatic updates
<RobinShepheard> dunno about any other way to be honest
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> but mine shows no update available
<cbx33> even when I know there is
<RobinShepheard> which kernel are you running??
<cbx33> 2.6.12
<cbx33> -9
<RobinShepheard> if you do apt-cache search linux-image-2.6 it will list all the kernel images you can install, pick the right one and then do apt-get I would guess
<RobinShepheard> eg apt-get install linux-image-2.6.15-23-686
<cbx33> doing 
<jsgotangco> cbx33: check your sources.list if updates are enabled
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I HAVE SOUND
<cbx33> kernel upgrade fixed it
<jsgotangco> joy
* jsgotangco swears by laptops
<highvoltage> laptops++
<cbx33> phew I was getting worried there guys
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: kernel upgrade fixed it
<jsgotangco> the last time i worried about sound was during the late 90s
<cbx33> well for some reason the kernel upgrade didn;t happen
<jsgotangco> well thats what we love most about software
<RobinShepheard> I reckon I end up swearing at my laptop as much as swearing by it
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: good to hear it is all working now
<cbx33> ogra, made a suggestion on the wiki
<cbx33> what are your thoughts?
<cbx33> the bottom one
<ogra> cbx33, sounds good, but not like an edubuntu spec
<ogra> (rather suited for ubuntu)
<jsgotangco> ogra: is it normal that sound is still done in the server?
<cbx33> even the teaching instructional one?
<jsgotangco> (i just noticed it in my machines just now)
<ogra> jsgotangco, you need to enable it in lts.conf
<jsgotangco> ogra: right thanks
<cbx33> I thought that was right up edubuntu street ?
<ogra> cbx33, look at byzanz 
<ogra> we already have a screen recording app 
<jsgotangco> even istanbul is ok if not needing some more work
<ogra> and istanbul was on my initial applist
<jsgotangco> yeah but byzanz came like midway of the cycle heh
<ogra> byzanz is smaller and produces animated gifs you can just drop on a website without needing a viewer
<jsgotangco> yeah
<cbx33> Ability for pupils to ask questions of a teacher, in an online fashion, or click on a "I need help" button
<ogra> jebber server by default you mean ?
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> *jabber
<cbx33> something like that
<jsgotangco> that's also a good thing to add in Amenity
<cbx33> Common whiteboards to allow pupils to take part in interactive sessions, displayed on a projector
<ogra> phew
<cbx33> ogra: want my brain to stop?
<ogra> do you think such a thing is doable in 4 months ? 
* cbx33 thinks............
<cbx33> ok ...probably not
<ogra> no but stay realistic :) unless i find 10 devs to help me ...
<cbx33> ogra: feel free to delete the suggestions you don;t think are realistic
<ogra> no, thats a proposal page ... i wont delete anything
<EmxBA> hi again
<cbx33> ogra: I'll remove them then, because yo uare right
<EmxBA> i have told you that i will come back :D
<ogra> and having proposals like the above is great but will need more manpower or several releases
<cbx33> some are just silly big for edgy
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> so its good to leave it there as idea
<cbx33> I think SCP could turn massive
<cbx33> with so many features
<ogra> but tag it as "not doable in one release" or something alongside
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> edgy might be the release for scp and ltsp manager :)
<jsgotangco> cbx33: do you mean those huge writeboards?
<ogra> i'd love to focus more on GUI stuff this time 
<jsgotangco> they're very much driver oriented
<cbx33> jsgotangco: no
<cbx33> basically the host/teacher would have a whiteboard
<jsgotangco> or do you mean a common virtual writeboard
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> which is then displayed on a big screen
<cbx33> ogra: what kind of GUI things did you have in mind
<ogra> jsgotangco, what a suggestion ! you know we're PXE fashists !
<jsgotangco> heh!
<cbx33> heheh
<RobinShepheard> sorry to interrupt, where would I find the download for the testing version or is that yet to come. Yes I do realise that you have just done a new release
<jsgotangco> i did that on purpose
<ogra> cbx33, mainly finishing scp and ltsp-amanger
<cbx33> ogra: ok cool
<jsgotangco> RobinShepheard: we haven't even started Edgy =)
<cbx33> ogra: I'll see what I can do to help out on ltsp-manager
<ogra> RobinShepheard, the edgy archive hasnt even opened :)
<cbx33> and scp
<jsgotangco> RobinShepheard: we'll probably have a milestone disc in a month
<RobinShepheard> i did think that may be the case, but as I am new to the team I thought I had better check
<ogra> cbx33, i thought you already jump on s-c-p
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> stay with that then :)
<ogra> its enough work for one 
<cbx33> ok
<RobinShepheard> scp ... as in ssh type scp???
<cbx33> who's project managing scp
<ogra> student-control-panel
<ogra> me
<cbx33> thought so
<RobinShepheard> ahh, I did think i must be something else
<ogra> but i'll happily hand over to a MOTU (hint hint)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> awww shucks that's not me yet
<RobinShepheard> what have you got to do with the scp??
<RobinShepheard> is it actually coding work??
<ogra> managing students :)
<cbx33> yes
<jsgotangco> he just signed his death warrant
<RobinShepheard> lol very funny
<RobinShepheard> ok cant really help then unfortunately
<cbx33> of coruse you can
<RobinShepheard> I am not a coder
<cbx33> testing :D
<ogra> yep, its coding work but also requires decent packaging knowledge (you need to make changes to other packages that are used by s-c-p (like x11vnc))
<RobinShepheard> yeah well i had figured on the testing part
<cbx33> hehe
<RobinShepheard> well beyond my league then
<RobinShepheard> what language do you use??
<ogra> but indeed like every new software it will need lots of testing etc :)
<ogra> python
<ogra> with glade guis
<jsgotangco> dinner brb
<RobinShepheard> ok
* cbx33 sighs
<cbx33> ahhhh python and glade....I love that combination
<RobinShepheard> how difficult is python to learn?? I have not really had a chance to look as yet
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: it's pretty easy
<cbx33> I've been using it for about 2 weeks
<cbx33> and I'm writing gui apps
<cbx33> the documentation is excellent
<cbx33> IMHO
<EmxBA> why there is no edubuntu on list of available distros to translate
<RobinShepheard> would it be worth my while trying to learn it then?? Could I be fairly useful in a fairly short time period?
<EmxBA> on launchpad.net
<ogra> because we use ubuntu packages :) edubuntu is built *inside* of ubuntu
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: as I said I've been learning for a 1 week
<cbx33> sorry 2 weeks
<cbx33> and I'm hopingto be able to help out on scp
<ogra> RobinShepheard, pythin is easy to learn 
<ogra> *python too
<cbx33> learn it
<cbx33> ogra: I've never used pythin !
<RobinShepheard> ahhh remember you are talking to someone with no education worth speaking about
<cbx33> what about pythick 
<ogra> or pyknic :)
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: do you have any other programming experience?
<RobinShepheard> not proper programming as such, just a bit or perl
<cbx33> pork pyes?
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: as long as you understand that basics you should be fine
<ogra> for the pyknic ? sure !
<cbx33> take look at python.org
<RobinShepheard> no thanks I have just had lunch
<cbx33> and check out their documentation section
<cbx33> I'll give ya any pointers where I can 
<cbx33> but bear in mind I'm no expert
<RobinShepheard> I subscribe to the safari bookshelf from oreilly, they have the python books on there
<cbx33> indeed
<RobinShepheard> cheers for the offer of help cbx33
<cbx33> np
<RobinShepheard> I may well take you up on that
<cbx33> that's what we're ll here for
<cbx33> well if you want a small app to disect, that is in development.
<cbx33> gISOMount is my first python application
<cbx33> launchpad.net/products/gisomount/
<RobinShepheard> yeah, I spotted it on your webpage
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> pygi is another python coder with a lot more experience than I, as is ogra
<cbx33> any others I've missed?
<cbx33> notice they'll all stay quiet now so they don;t get bugged with questions :p
<RobinShepheard> ok, how do I obtain the source to look at it??
<RobinShepheard> lol
<cbx33> goto http://www.progbox.co.uk/gisomount
<cbx33> there are only 3 files you need
<cbx33> gisomount
<cbx33> gismount.glade
<cbx33> and for asthetics cdicon.png
<EmxBA> hey
<RobinShepheard> ok on my way now
<cbx33> then just make sure that you chmod 755 for gisomount
<EmxBA> does anyone know a good site to resize images on 16x16
<cbx33> and try running it
<ogra> has anybody any further ides for CD size reduction ? 
<ogra> *ideas
<jsgotangco> ogra: evolution
<cbx33> well the ideas you have are great ogra 
<cbx33> removing kdeedu would be good
<ogra> i want to put it in a megred spec 
<ogra> that lists all possibilitys
<ogra> jsgotangco, replaced with what ? 
<jsgotangco> we could also remove some of the audio apps
<jsgotangco> ogra: i cannot see the use of a groupware/email client in a lab...
<jsgotangco> since most kids nowadays are webmail users
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> that'd work if we'd offer a webmail server
<cbx33> I think there would probably be a need for some mail client 
<ogra> but we dont yet
<cbx33> ok, I'm after opinions here
<cbx33> please shout at me if you think I'm wrong
<jsgotangco> xubuntu used thunderbird
<ogra> that will bring in huge langpacks
<jsgotangco> but if there is enough to warrant a main inclusion or even another gecko/mozilla in the fray, there
<ogra> i'm happy we got rid of TB in breezy
<jsgotangco> there's seamonkey
<cbx33> I just feel that we should be making sure edubuntu and probably ubuntu in the wider community, so that it can sit in a windows network and flourish
<jsgotangco> cbx33: it connects to a samba network?
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: slick, and looks a fairly simple language
<cbx33> in education esp, to move from windows to edubuntu takes a long long time
<cbx33> the curriculum has to be rewritten in a lot of cases
<jsgotangco> cbx33: well that's just one side..there's the other side using apple networks :P
<ogra> probably we should have a look at balsa, it used to be the default client before evo in gnome
<cbx33> jsgotangco: true
<jsgotangco> ogra: i forgot about balsa..
<cbx33> and that'd be great as well
<ogra> its in universe though ... not sure what it takes to get it to main
<jsgotangco> is it still actively maintained?
* jsgotangco checks
<cbx33> but majority of school networks are windows based
<RobinShepheard> balsa is light and quick
<ogra> but is it feature complete ?
<ogra> i.e. can it do tls encrypted imap ? 
<RobinShepheard> good point
<RobinShepheard> havent used it in a longtime
* cbx33 installs balsa
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> it suggests gnome-pim
<jsgotangco> and gpgsm
<cbx33> for a start
<cbx33> tehre's no icon
<jsgotangco> =)
<jsgotangco> try refreshing your session
<cbx33> it has ssl
<RobinShepheard> does install to the menu though
<cbx33> not that I can see....
<jsgotangco> sure from a bunch of universe apps
<cbx33> I'll refresh in a minute
<RobinShepheard> I am popping out for a bit of fresh air, be back in a short while
<cbx33> hmmm
<RobinShepheard> see you all in a bit
<cbx33> but it crashed on message 313
<cbx33> out of 5760
<cbx33> downloading from inbox
<jsgotangco> :)
<cbx33> before load_messages: time=1149599062after threading time=1149599062*** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000000c625c0 ***
<jsgotangco> file a bug on that
<cbx33> it seems to be if I hide the progress window and try to open an email
<cbx33> whilst it's downloading the others
<jsgotangco> wonder what';s the status of pvanhoof's tinymail
* jsgotangco checks
<ogra> oh, btw, dont forget that initial specs need to be written if you suggest stuff :P
<ogra> (at least if you want it to be done)
<cbx33> ogra: well from what I can see, most of mine are non-doers for edgy
<cbx33> dont you think?
<jsgotangco> dont be so hard on your ideas
<jsgotangco> after all in a summit almost half of topics never come to be realized at all
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i just realized something
<jsgotangco> supertux isnt even educational
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> didnt you learn anything while playing it ? 
<cbx33> jsgotangco: I'm just being realistic ;P
<jsgotangco> ogra: i learned how to shoot fireballs to walking snowballs though
<ogra> cbx33, if you want it done eventually its helpful if a spec exists 
<ogra> jsgotangco, you see :)
<cbx33> I have a spec for atleast one of those :p
<jsgotangco> its a supermario clone!
<cbx33> Datadir: /usr/share/games/supertuxWarning: Unable to open the file "/home/pete/.supertux/config" for read!!!open /dev/sequencer: No such file or directoryError: I could not initialize video!The Simple DirectMedia error that occured was:No I/O port permissions
<cbx33> :( any help there?
<jsgotangco> how come you seem to get all the weird errors
<ogra> but only the sound related ones
<jsgotangco> ah right supertux uses sdl
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> which package do i need
<cbx33> it should have suggested it no?
<cbx33> libsdl1.2debian ?
<blue-frog> hi if I have a seg fault while trying sudo updatedb on edubuntu where should I look to find out what's going on, pls?
<blue-frog> ok found some stuff in kern.log about updatedb
<cbx33> jsgotangco: :(
<cbx33> it's still not working
<RobinShepheard> greetings aon and all
<RobinShepheard> *one even
<cbx33> which package is the gnome applet for network monitoring in
<cbx33> I have just found a bug
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: do you mean the panel applet???
<RobinShepheard> netmon-applet
<ogra> netmon-applet is a universe package
<ogra> unlikely he means that ... try gnome-applets
<cbx33> hmm...am looking at the source now
<RobinShepheard> I sort of get lost as I use my laptop all over the place I find it useful to have NetworkManager, kismet and others and so I have to have universe and multiverse
<RobinShepheard> are all the applets written in python?
<cbx33> hmmm it's not in there 
<cbx33> as far as i can see
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~/Desktop/gnome-screensaver-2.14.2$ apt-cache show gnome-netstatus-applet|grep Source
<ogra> Source: gnome-netstatus
<ogra> yep...
<cbx33> ok got it 
<jsgotangco> stupid bzr question but how do i start something when i dont even have a url to branch with?
<ogra> you mean creating a new project from your current dir ? 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> bzr init
<ogra> bzr add *
<jsgotangco> doh!
<ogra> bzr commit -M'I DID IT !'
<ogra> err -m
<ogra> bzr viz 
<ogra> :)
<ogra> in case you have bzrk installed
<cbx33> bzrk?
<jsgotangco> yeah i have bzrk
<RobinShepheard> if I want to look at the source for something, how do I go about getting it, eg gnome-netstatus and where would I find it
<RobinShepheard> I have just run apt-get source gnome-netstatus
<RobinShepheard> and now I am wondering where the source files are
<cbx33> that will cerate a dir
<cbx33> look in the folder you just ran that in
<cbx33> for gnome-netstatus-1.4.6 blah blah
<cbx33> 2.12.0 i think
<RobinShepheard> ahh, I was looking for it in usr/src and places like that. It was to easy to consider it would put it in the current dir for my basic intelligence
<cbx33> ;p
<cbx33> that's why apt-get source can be run w/o root privs
<RobinShepheard> got you
<RobinShepheard> doh and it is written in c, I was hoping I could look at it for reference for python
<cbx33> i know
<cbx33> me too
<cbx33> bbl guys
<RobinShepheard> laters
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: when I get in later I'll see if I can find you the tutorials I used
<RobinShepheard> cheers for that, it would be most appreciated
<RobinShepheard> you got my email address??
<bddebian> Heya
<jsgotangco> ogra: is s-c-p in your bzr updated?
<ogra> yes
<EmxBA> hi folks
<jsgotangco> hey
<bddebian> Hello EmxBA
<EmxBA> bddebian: nice to meet ya
<EmxBA> does anyone know EdubuntuGirl fro all of you here
<EmxBA> *from
<bddebian> Not I
<jsgotangco> i dont see edubuntugirl that much lately
<EmxBA> ok
<EmxBA> when does she visit IRC
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<EmxBA> why nobody doesn' talk
<EmxBA> shhhhhhhhhhhhh
<RobinShepheard> EmxBA: my excuse is I got users bothering me
<RobinShepheard> Typical, just when I get around to talking to him he disappears
<cbx33> hey all
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<cbx33> howz it going
* highvoltage finally gets round to reading the blueprint documentation
<highvoltage> it's going ok.
<highvoltage> actually it's going quite well.
<highvoltage> how are you?
<cbx33> yeh I'm good
<cbx33> highvoltage, AliasVegas has asked if you have pictures of members of the edubuntu team, that are larger than the hackergotchis
<Burgwork> highvoltage, do you have some free time this weekend to talk about an edubuntu/tuxlabs case study?
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<highvoltage> cbx33: we could probably get some together
<highvoltage> Burgwork: yes, this weekend would be great for that
<Burgwork> highvoltage, is about now the best time to reach you?
<cbx33> LaserJock, I've added a TODO file in gisomount
<cbx33> highvoltage, that'd be great
<cbx33> she said sorry she hasnt had a chance to mail you yet
<cbx33> LaserJock, I'm gonna work on packaging gisomount tonight
<LaserJock> hi cbx33, did you see the items I added to the wiki page
<bddebian> HI LASERJOCK! :-)
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> woh
<cbx33> bddebian, you scared me
<bddebian> :)
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> LaserJock, if you merge you'll find I've added them to the TODO
<cbx33> hi bddebian 
<cbx33> howz it going
<bddebian> OK, thanks.  Yourself?
<cbx33> yeh going good
<cbx33> learning a lot
<cbx33> as always
<bddebian> Good, good.  I am the old dog you can't teach new tricks too ;-)
<cbx33> yeh right
<cbx33> bddebian, you can't tell me a day goes by when you don;t leanr something :p
<cbx33> if that's true...then....I bow down :p
<LaserJock> cbx33: there is this wiki page ....
<bddebian> cbx33: Oh, I didn't say I know anything, just that I can't learn anything :-)
<cbx33> hehe
* bddebian pokes LaserJock
<cbx33> LaserJock, ??
* LaserJock introduces cbx33 to wiki.ubunu.com/BddebianIsAGod
<bddebian> Noooooooo
<cbx33> hehehe
* cbx33 could never  add his name to that page
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> bddebian, R-E-S-P-E-C-T
<cbx33> LaserJock, will you have a few minutes tonight?
<cbx33> in about 2 hours
<cbx33> ?
<highvoltage> hey LaserJock and bddebian 
<LaserJock> umm, yeah
<bddebian> cbx33: Nah, that was supposed to be BddebianIsADog but Stephen is obviously dyslexic :-)
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<cbx33> just incase I get stuck packaging
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> highvoltage, what blueprint docs is it you're reading ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: rofl
<ogra> guys, dont miss https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
* cbx33 didn't :p
<cbx33> I have some more to put on there later ogra 
<LaserJock> ogra: oh, awesome
<ogra> i mean the guys that werent here in the european morning ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> if you grab a spec to work on in paris or add a spec, please write an initial draft on launchpad
<ogra> (i'll care for the ltsp ones for now)
<lucasvo> crap
<ogra> needs to be done until monday
<lucasvo> I just broke my router
<cbx33> you mean we have till monday?
<ogra> whats not on launchpad by monday 00:00 UTC will be dropped
<cbx33> eeek
<cbx33> ok
<bddebian> ogra: The localApps link is broken :-)
<ogra> bddebian, i didnt add it ...
<LaserJock> what? really?
<bddebian> Ah, OK
<cbx33> sorry was me
<cbx33> I need to put my activedirectory integration on as a spec
<cbx33> i have it already written, but as you say ogra its really an ubuntu thing....
<cbx33> though I think they will not be keen to do it as we are
<cbx33> gtg - food
<bddebian> Laterz
<LaserJock> ogra: argg, ok we need to put all our idea on that wiki page and then make specs? all by Monday?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> yes
<ogra> but the spec can be a very rough draft, really
<LaserJock> hmm, I feel so dumb right now.
<ogra> what about the menu stuff ? 
<LaserJock> yeah
<highvoltage> cbx33: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/BlueprintDocumentation
<LaserJock> I think I'm mostly interested in the menu stuff and discipline meta-packs for Universe
<ogra> it'd be great if you could flesh out the menu stuff a bit ... the universe packages wont need a spec, we can just build them :)
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> what about themeing between the different "flavors" of Edubuntu, kids, students, unis sort of idea?
<ogra> we just need to enhance current edubuntu-artwork functionallity
<ogra> that will enable us to make menu options for different flavors in the CD installmenu
<highvoltage> ogra: will you be around this weekend?
<ogra> highvoltage, probably 
<ogra> cant promise because we need to prepare some stuff for moving
<highvoltage> ogra: may i send you links to specs i'm going to work on the following days, can i send you links to them for suggestions and improvements?
<ogra> sure
<highvoltage> i could e-mail it to you too, then you could read it next week, if you don't mind.
<highvoltage> i just read through the specification docs, and it seems like a big job to write a decent spec.
<ogra> well, we need to be done by monday with a set of braindump versions 
<ogra> no,no
<ogra> dont write the spec now
<ogra> only an initial draft roughly explaining what it should solve
<ogra> not more
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> and that should also go into https://launchpad.net/specs so long?
<highvoltage> or a wiki page?
<ogra> mdz and/or sabdfl will select a set of specs from the whole
<ogra> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-June/000145.html
<ogra> see 3 aqnd 4
<ogra> *and
<highvoltage> great. thanks.
<highvoltage> ogra, have i told you about tuxlabs going solo?
<LaserJock> umm, a question I had, if I write a spec does that mean I have to implement it?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: no, you don't.
<ogra> highvoltage, yes, when is day X ?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/WritingGoodSpecifications
<ogra> LaserJock, a spec should be written in a way bddebian can implement in the end
<highvoltage> LaserJock: under the section "Getting outside expertise"
<pygi> bddebian, what are you implementing?
<LaserJock> ogra: excelent
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> ogra: it seems very likely that it's happening within the next 30 days
<ogra> nice
<highvoltage> ogra: what's great is, today i negotiated that i won't be a full time employee, instead, i'll go on a retainer
<highvoltage> which means that i can work in my own time on the work i need to do.
<highvoltage> which in turn means, i'll have much more daytime hours to work on edubuntu :)
<ogra> cool
<LaserJock> arrrggg, I can't think of anything cool right now for Edubuntu.
<pygi> ogra, should I also file a spec on ubuntu product for s-c-p or?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: put a kid in front of the computer, ideas will start coming to you :)
<LaserJock> more apps in less space :-)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: unfortunately, I'm the only kid I know ;-)
<ogra> LaserJock, there are already plenty of ideas on the wiki, just grab one, no need to add more if you dont have an idea right now
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, I'll try to tackle the menu profiles, if that's ok with everybody else
<ogra> sure :D
<pips1> just had a quick glance through EdubuntuEdgyIdeas and there is a *lot* there already 
<ogra> yeps
<ogra> we wont be able to do all of it anyway
<LaserJock> another thing I was wondering is if we should prefix Edubuntu specs with edubuntu- 
<ogra> hmm, good question
<ogra> mdz, should we prefix edubuntu specs or tag them anyhow ? 
<LaserJock> I'm having a hard time wading through all the specs
<ogra> yeah there is a lot (and a lot of crap that someone should clean up)
<mdz> ogra: why?
<pygi> I shall take care of it
<pygi> Enhance the student-control-panel (make it feature complete with the initially planned fetures) 
<ogra> mdz, well, the menu spec is very edubuntu specific for example 
<ogra> hmm, actually i think thats the only one that only affects edubuntu from EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
<LaserJock> not the CD ones?
<bddebian> pygi: ?
<ogra> the "CD ones" will be merged to a single (minimize CD) one
<LaserJock> k
<pygi> bddebian, nothin' ;)
<ogra> the list there is only for suggestions what to drop or to change to get it smaller
<bddebian> Oh, I missed that.  What AM I implementing?? :-)
<LaserJock> all the Edgy specs
<bddebian> Oh, sweetness :-)
<mdz> ogra: name them as you like, but there is no way to filter presently
<ogra> yep, ok
<LaserJock> well, they are alphabetically listed, no?
<cbx33> phew I'm a back
<cbx33> yum yum
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, so the idea is to have menu profiles that correlate with the theme (young, plain, etc.) through edubuntu-artwork?
<cbx33> ogra, thanks for showing me bzrk
<lucasvo> bah, british food is supposed to be good?? 
<lucasvo> ;)
* cbx33 had pizza just now
<ogra> LaserJock, nope, the idea was rather to bind menu profiles to group assignment ...
<LaserJock> ok, but I'm struggling as to what the group assignment would be
<lucasvo> cbx33: ah, yes. italian food is good
<ogra> LaserJock, you have a chemistry group, if you add the user to it, gnome-emnus detects that and adds the appropriate items
<cbx33> ogra, sounds good
<ogra> so syou only have to add users to the appropriate group 
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, so these are predefined groups?
<ogra> (note that is a draft, it might change into a compeltely different implementation during the summit)
<cbx33> there would be the facility to add new ones?
<LaserJock> and then an administrator (or somebody) assigns the user to a set of groups?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and yes
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> indeed, if you want to bind it to the theme, do that, write it as you like, as i said, it can change 180 during the discussion
<highvoltage> ogra: is this okay for a spec draft? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-xfce-desktop
<ogra> highvoltage, looks ok to me ...
<ogra> you should probably add that we want an additional menu entry in the CD install menu
<cbx33> ogra, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ActiveDirectoryIntegration
<cbx33> I wrote that a while ago
<cbx33> ok ok?
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<ogra> cbx33, sure
<Burgwork> ogra, have you and Amaranth set a date/time for your meeting?
<ogra> Burgwork, not yet
<Burgwork> ok, no worries
<ogra> thansk for the reminder
<cbx33> ok updated link on the edgy ideas page to link  to my spec.
<cbx33> Since upgrading to dapper there is something seriously wrong with this laptop
<ogra> good
<cbx33> :(
<Burgwork> ogra, funny, given that I am not mentoring, I seem to be doing a great deal of work for SoC :)
<cbx33> it keeps freezing for a few secs and skipping keys
<ogra> Burgwork, queue up with pygi :)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: maybe you need an adjunct position ;)
<ogra> Burgwork, probably you two should make a LP team external-soc-helpers :)
<Burgwork> indeed
<LaserJock> or maybe soc-drivers ;-)
* ogra adds a k for fun :)
<Burgwork> lol
<highvoltage> ogra: don't joke, we actually have a project called socks at TSF :)
<cbx33> i knew I shouldn't have upgraded to dapper
<highvoltage> http://socks.tsf.org.za
<cbx33> this laptop has some strange quirks
<ogra> highvoltage, well, do you also have external sock helpers ? 
<cbx33> heheh
<highvoltage> well, not yet :)
* Burgwork makes sock puppets
<ogra> hehe
<pips1> LOL
* cbx33 writes and interface for the sock drivers to drive the sock puppets
<LaserJock> we should have a sabdfl puppet :-)
<cbx33> this is annoying me now
<pygi> ogra, what I did again? :)
<pips1> hehe
<cbx33> GRRRRR
<cbx33> my laptop keeps ignoring keyboard input for a few seconds
<pygi> Burgwork, what happened? :P
<ogra> cbx33, check what dmesg says
<pips1> LaserJock could you make one? a sabdfl sock puppet... hehe
<pips1> washed out jeans and all
<cbx33> nothing
<Burgwork> pygi, should I cc'ed you in on emails about Anselmo?
<cbx33> ogra, there's nothing in there
<Burgwork> should I have, rather
<pygi> Burgwork, if you wish, I tend to help everybody anyway :P
<Burgwork> pygi, ok, just sent an email to dholbach and anselmo regarding a meeting to get started on anselmo's soc stuff
<ogra> cbx33, did you run out of diskspace ? there must be a return if you type dmesg in a terminal
<pygi> oki, thanks for help ;)
<cbx33> ogra, oh yeh there is
<cbx33> just nothing related to the problem
<cbx33> no entries since the problem occured
<cbx33> it happens every minute or so
* Xymor - [ is away ]  [ Reason: Activate IdleAway: 300 min ]  [ Time: 14:47:54 ]  [ Pager: on ]  [ Log: on ] 
<Burgwork> Xymor, please turn off your away message
<Burgwork>  /ctcp Xymor PAGE please turn off your away message
<pygi> Burgwork, making external soc helpers team? :P
<Amaranth> ogra: what times would be good for you?
<ogra> how about tomorrow before the edubuntu meeting (should be daytime for you, its evening for me)
<cbx33> are we 20:00 tomorrow?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> 20:00 UTC
* pygi hopes he'll be accepted as member :)
<LaserJock> heah, its a membership meeting isn't it?
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> yep, might take longer than usual, even the general topics will all be short :)
<cbx33> I'm going to throw this laptop ootw in a minute
<pygi> Burgwork, if you need any help with SoC related stuff, just poke
<Burgwork> pygi, yep no worries. My major concern right now is a workable plan, so that we get at least something by the end
<pygi> Burgwork, I agree
<Burgwork> and we consider the longterm maintence
<LaserJock> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus
<pygi> Burgwork, some students already said they wont continue maintaing stuff :(
<pygi> Sadly, they havent said that in their application
<cbx33> that sux
<Burgwork> yep
<cbx33> you can tell whos in it for the long haul and who isn't
<ogra> LaserJock, looks good :)
<Burgwork> the problem with bounties is that you sometimes get people are who are just in it for the bounty
<cbx33> yeh
<pygi> Burgwork, indeed :-/
<cbx33> LaserJock, looks great
<Burgwork> thankfully, there are some good people this year, like ajmitch, desrt and Amaranth 
<pygi> Burgwork, szilvester is great also
<pygi> (bzr gui)
<Burgwork> I guess I should have rather said, already well integrated
<Burgwork> yep
<pygi> zsync stuff for apt will be great if the student manages to do it
<cbx33> ogra, where did you get your sample rules file
<pygi> Burgwork, Have you talked with Camille?
<pygi> That's the only person I havent talked to 
<Burgwork> pygi, Camille? no
<Burgwork> I have only talked with Anselmo and another guy regarding their projects
<pygi> Burgwork, ergh, has the student even talked with its mentor?
<Burgwork> the other guy, no
* cbx33 wishes he could have done SoC
<Burgwork> I wish I could code
<highvoltage> Burgwork: you can :)
<pygi> Burgwork, let's try to poke jbailey at -devel
<Burgwork> pygi, who is jbailey mentoring?
<pygi> Camille Percy, the controversial student
<Burgwork> what is Camille Percy doing?
<cbx33> controversial in what way?
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> Burgwork, some Samba Config UI
<Amaranth> stupid wireless
<Amaranth> ogra: that time should be good for me
<pygi> cbx33, he or she, whatever it is, copied entire application from our wiki
<pygi> Burgwork, he's in bzr
<Amaranth> i think it's 3pm
<Burgwork> ah, I see
<Burgwork> don't we already have that, in the form of g-s-t?
<Burgwork> Ubuntu Welcome Center <-- this is the one that worries me the msot
<pygi> Burgwork, we havent actually accepted that application...it got in because we had duplicate students
<Amaranth> ogra: so 19:00 GMT?
<pygi> same with Ubuntu welcome center, which we surely wont include into distro
<ogra> Amaranth, sounds fine
<Burgwork> yep
<Amaranth> and that's tomorrow?
<Amaranth> oh, topic
<ogra> yep :)
* Amaranth marks it in evolution
* ogra joins
<Amaranth> i'm keeping track of appointments, i feel so grown-up ;)
<Burgwork> pygi, the doc team (myself mostly) spoke a long time with him over irc, trying to talk to him about how to get his stuff integrated. He wouldn't budge :(
<Amaranth> hard to keep evolution open when that's all i use it for though
<ogra> haha
<cbx33> hehe nice one Amaranth 
<pygi> Burgwork, eh :(
<cbx33> Burgwork, who was that?|
<Burgwork> pygi, I wanted him to eithre work on yelp or ubitquity
<Burgwork> cbx33, ghee22
<highvoltage> ogra: geez, this ccapers can surely type a lot!
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> highvoltage, /ingnore *g*
<ogra> i was surprised jammcq took the time for this lengthy answer
<highvoltage> yep. i can't believe that someone takes all that time to type out long, pointless e-mails, and so many of them too!
<highvoltage> perhaps it's some kind of script or something.
<ogra> lol, surely not
<ogra> ask JaneW :)
<pygi> Burgwork, agreed, that would be good
<Burgwork> pygi, yep
<Burgwork> pygi, you in #ubuntu-devel ?
<pygi> Burgwork, yup
<HedgeMage> hi there
<HedgeMage> what's up in #ubuntu-devel?
<LaserJock> HedgeMage!
<LaserJock> I got an email from LP about you today :-)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: Hehe :)
* HedgeMage offers LaserJock a HedgeMage Fan Club button
<HedgeMage> :P
<LaserJock> oh, cool
* HedgeMage grins
<LaserJock> but I really should accept it for a couple days
<LaserJock> shouldn't
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: what happens in a couple days?
<LaserJock> well, I should stay impartial ;-)
<HedgeMage> ahh :D
<LaserJock> I can't be taking bribes, at least from #edubuntu
<HedgeMage> lol
<ogra> do it in PM :))
* HedgeMage checks what other chans LaserJock is in so she can bribe him there ;P
<HedgeMage> no witnesses!
* HedgeMage laughs hysterically
<ogra> just be careful, all #ubuntu channels are logged 
<ogra> big brother is watching ;)
<HedgeMage> hehe
* HedgeMage klines ubuntulog, ubotu, Seveas, and JaneW when no one's looking
<HedgeMage> there, privacy
<HedgeMage> ;)
<LaserJock> *cough*/msg*cough*
<HedgeMage> (just kidding)
<ogra> *g*
<highvoltage> oh no! so if i actually do throw someone off a cliff, it was logged that i'd do it!
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: my idea was funnier, being a spectacular abuse of power that's rediculously out of character for me :P
<LaserJock> oh, fine
<Seveas> HedgeMage, yeah, voicing would be "in character" :
<HedgeMage> Seveas: ROFL
* HedgeMage wonders if accidental voicing of 693 people will come up during her application for Edubuntu membership...
<bddebian> Absolutely ;-)
<HedgeMage> LOL
<cbx33> HedgeMage, it will now :D
* LaserJock is looking forward to the grilling ;-)
<LaserJock> likes eggs -1
<LaserJock> likes pickles +1
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra, I've found out some more information
<pygi> HedgeMage, I'll get all the people from #ubuntu-*
<cbx33> it's changing letters too
<cbx33> or seems to be
<cbx33> brb
<HedgeMage> lol
<pygi> ttyl Burgwork 
<Burgwork> cya pygi 
<RobinShepheard> hello one and all
<cbx33> hi RobinShepheard 
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: hiya
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard!
<RobinShepheard> LaserJock how are you??
<LaserJock> good, busy, but good
<LaserJock> and you?
<cbx33> bbiaw guys
<cbx33> thanks LaserJock 
<RobinShepheard> lol I know that one, work kept interupting my chats here earlier :)
<cbx33> I'll see you in a while
<RobinShepheard> see you later cbx22
<RobinShepheard> doh cbx33
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> not using tab completion? :p
<HedgeMage> see ya cbx33
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: What time is it where you are now?
<LaserJock> almost noon
<RobinShepheard> ahhh wondered as it wasn't that long ago I remember her saying she was heading for bed :)
<RobinShepheard> Has anyone started some sort of database of hardware that people have for testing on??
<ogra> RobinShepheard, hwdb.ubuntu.com has plenty of datasets, just no database backend to make more use out of the data
<HedgeMage> it was suggested on the dev list, but I don't know if it's been done
<ogra> hwdb needs a lot of enhancements and bugfixes ... it also needs a split of front and backend code since the kde guys want to start using it too
* HedgeMage goes and looks at hwdb
<LaserJock> was there a SoC project about that?
<ogra> nope
<LaserJock> hmm, must have been just that -devel thread I was thinking about
<ogra> but its on mdz's list for paris specs
<LaserJock> oh maybe that's it
<highvoltage> ogra: usergroup driven profiles are so that regular users won't see admin menus, and so that you can have customised menu sets for (as an example), primary school, high school and university users?
<HedgeMage> Hmm... it seems to just be procs, memory, etc... no info on sound cards and peripherals that are working, etc.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think that coule be a possibility but also the use case I've got on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDynamicMenus
<highvoltage> LaserJock: thanks for that
* highvoltage reads
<LaserJock> hehe, not much to read yet
<highvoltage> cool, i'm just going to link to that spec from EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
<LaserJock> I did
<highvoltage> heh. i just noticed.
<ogra> highvoltage, gnome-menus already has a patch for users in the admin group, i'd like to enhance that functionallity for us
<RobinShepheard> I reckon that sounds like a cool plan, especially if you could tie it in to a central calender so that it was lesson specific
<ogra> thats the easiest
<highvoltage> ok.
<RobinShepheard> not that I am asking a lot or anything
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> well it would be cool to have a teacher admin center (does schooltool do that?) where the teach could specify the groups each student belongs to
<ogra> that could be an enhancement to S-C-P 
<ogra> well, no, rather not
<RobinShepheard> I am not sure how they work so bear with me, but could you load a custom menu at login based on a time check?? Is it just a text file basically
<RobinShepheard> or is there more too it than that??
<ogra> there are various way to implement that, so there are plenty of answers to that question :)
<RobinShepheard> ok fair point, I was just thinking if it is a text file, on login you check time and then compare time to set day for set class and load the file
<RobinShepheard> add the script into bash.rc
<RobinShepheard> if you can do it that way of course
<RobinShepheard> LaserJock: how would you do the groups, would it be by subject or by class group. I was wondering because if you did it by subject you would have to change it every lesson
<RobinShepheard> where as if it was by class group, you could load based on a schedule
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: I was thinking a little more static than that, like for a semester or something
<RobinShepheard> ahh ok, 
<LaserJock> but I'm pretty sure it coule be expanded to do whatever, we just need to work through the implementation
<RobinShepheard> reason I ask is the school I went to had six lessons a day and a 2 week rotation, so 10 different days with different lessons
<highvoltage> what's the new name for espresso again? i keep forgetting that word :/
<LaserJock> but would the apps change that much?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ubiquity
<RobinShepheard> and we did most subjects in those 10 days, only real difference between each pupil was which second language and whether you did history or geography
<highvoltage> LaserJock: thanks
<ogra> if you really bind it to a schedule a student wont be able to work on chemistry stuff if his bio teacher is ill and he has a spare hour
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I would really think that correlating it to like a semester or some larger block of time would be a better way to go
<ogra> so this could only be an optional thing to suit all needs ... but its not the time to discuss it now ...
<ogra> we'll have plenty of time for that in paris
<RobinShepheard> fair point, sort of depends at which education level you are pitching at, primary and most secondary schools in england provide cover if a teacher is off
<RobinShepheard> what is happening in paris??
<LaserJock> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDynamicMenus
<LaserJock> doh
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitParis/Attendees
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> doh, missed again
<LaserJock> for goodness sakes, i should have just typed it out
<ogra> well, you sent an ad for your spec first, so you had to miss :P
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> ogra: what package should this be implemented in?
<ogra> you'll likely need a hook in gnome-menus and a new add on package for the menu structure (to not clutter ubuntu with it)
<LaserJock> right
<RobinShepheard> if I want to learn a language to help out with the development side is the general agreement that python is the most useful?
<ogra> for ubuntu it is, yes
<ogra> and one of the easier to learn
<RobinShepheard> and it follows that it is pretty useful for edubuntu te
<RobinShepheard> doh then even
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> and for life in general ;-)
<ogra> as i said to someone before today, edubuntu is developed *inside* of ubuntu
<RobinShepheard> and I thought that was why I learnt perl
<RobinShepheard> cos that was good for life in general
<ogra> perl is a good start to learn python ... just drop all the semicolons and brackets and you get to python :)
<LaserJock> I thought perl was to make students live's miserable, guess I missed that :-)
<ogra> heh
<RobinShepheard> ok reckon that is a good place to start then, give a month or so and I shall possibly be asking for a bit of work and guidance
* ogra had times where perl filled his fridge 
<ogra> lots of frozen scriptcode :)
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: I'm right there with you, I'm not a programmer by any means and I'm starting to take up Python
<RobinShepheard> I am stuck running on a SCO box for some of the apps at work ---- not out of choice, I would dump that if I could and that comes with perl
<RobinShepheard> so it is the best for the job, well the only one for the job
<LaserJock> no python?
<RobinShepheard> reckon I will take up python, always did like snakes anyway. 
<RobinShepheard> No it is an old sco openserver 5 box
<RobinShepheard> I am currently trying to persuade the developers of the app to mave to linux but they are a bit stuck in their wway
<RobinShepheard> I had better go and spend a bit of time with my better half, see everyone around
<pygi> Burgwork, poke ;)
<lucasvo> http://internetstat.us/
<lucasvo> that is cool
<ogra> LaserJock, you missed the best :)
<ogra> LaserJock, 
<ogra> <mdz> bddebian: indeed, your wiki link from launchpad is broken :-)
<ogra> <bddebian> It is?
<ogra> <bddebian> Hmm
<ogra> <bddebian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarrydeFreese
<ogra> <mdz> it links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bddebian
<ogra> <highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod ?
<ogra> <mdz> which does not exist
<ogra> <mdz> however, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod does
<ogra> *giggle*
<LaserJock> ohhhhh yeahhh
<bddebian> gah
<highvoltage> *giggles too*
<pygi> ogra, we saw :P
<ogra> pygi, LaserJock didnt
<pygi> ogra, yup, I know ;) No worries :)
<Burgwork> pygi, pong
<pygi> Burgwork, I have several ideas, so if you are willing to listen...
<pygi> or shall we move to another channel?
<Burgwork> pygi, now is not a good time. later tongiht/
<Burgwork> ?
<lucasvo> ogra: could you post the link about the edgy spec again?
<pygi> Burgwork, oki :)
<lucasvo> I can't find it in the logs
<pygi> wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
<pygi> Burgwork, just poke :)
<lucasvo> pygi: thanks
<lucasvo> is landscape planned for edgy?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, once we know what landscape is
<ogra> no idea about the timeline
<HedgeMage> what's landscape?
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, some ubersecret web-based config tool
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: erk.
<ogra> highvoltage, ...
<ogra> !edubuntu
<ubotu> Edubuntu is the education version of ubuntu (essentially ubuntu + educational apps + ltsp).  Website - http://www.edubuntu.org. Tour - http://edubuntu.org/tour.html
<ogra> does the tour.html still exist ?
* ogra just saw that scrolling by in #ubuntu
<lucasvo> uhh
<lucasvo> somebody messed up the fonts in the menu on edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> nope, it's the screenshots page now
<highvoltage> !forget Edubuntu
<ubotu> i forgot edubuntu, highvoltage
<sbartleylinux> ogra: any chance you have looked at the local printer support capability since dapper release?
<highvoltage> ubotu: Edubuntu is the education version of Ubuntu (Ubuntu + educational apps + LTSP). Website - http://www.edubuntu.org. Screenshots: http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<ubotu> okay, highvoltage
<highvoltage> !edubuntu
<ubotu> edubuntu is probably the education version of Ubuntu (Ubuntu + educational apps + LTSP). Website - http://www.edubuntu.org. Screenshots: http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> it should mention #edubuntu as well
<highvoltage> !forget Edubuntu
<ogra> since its an IRC bot :)
<ubotu> i forgot edubuntu, highvoltage
<lucasvo> highvoltage: ubotu, no Edubuntu is ... also works
<highvoltage> ubotu: Edubuntu is the education version of Ubuntu (Ubuntu + educational apps + LTSP). Channel: #edubuntu. Website - http://www.edubuntu.org. Screenshots: http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<ubotu> okay, highvoltage
<ribbedrabbit> hi there can some-one help??  My "Alcarte Menu Editor"  does not work.  It opens and then just dissapears before It gets to the first menu.  I have uninstalled and reinstalled it don't work?  Any suggestions.  I'm using edubuntu
<highvoltage> lucasvo: ok, lucasvo 
<highvoltage> ;)
<ogra> ribbedrabbit, what happens if you run alacarte from a terminal ?
<Amaranth> uh oh
* Amaranth hides
<pygi> Amaranth, heh :)
<ribbedrabbit> ogra: how do i do that?
<ogra> ribbedrabbit, open a terminal window from the menu and type alacarte and hit enter 
<ribbedrabbit> ogra, ok will try and then paste to bin
<ogra> yep
<Amaranth> that reminds me
<Amaranth> any non-ubuntu users of alacarte 0.8 are getting a raw deal
* Amaranth should probably make an 0.8.1
<ribbedrabbit> ogra, heres the link http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15208
<ogra> Amaranth, dapper-updates is open for cresher fixes (if they are small) :)
<ogra> *crasher
<ribbedrabbit> thanx for the help
<Amaranth> oh crap
<Amaranth> i thought ubuntu had utf-8 filenames
<ogra> it has
<ogra> but users can switch locales ;)
<Amaranth> it also looks like seb128 didn't use my updated libgnomeui patch :(
<ribbedrabbit> ogra, any ideas?
<ogra> ribbedrabbit, what language are you using your desktop in ? 
<Amaranth> ribbedrabbit: i'll whip up a patch tonight, hopefully it can get into dapper-updates
<ribbedrabbit> ogra,  language?? not sure - English?
<ogra> ribbedrabbit, you're lucky, Amaranth is the guy who cares for alacarte seems you found a bug
<Amaranth> yeah, pyxdg bug
<Amaranth> luckily in edgy alacarte won't be using pyxdg anymore :)
<ogra> :)
<ribbedrabbit> Ok cool, Cause i've been using it alot I like it too! then it stopped working happened the same time I had a bug with my reposties
<ogra> do you implement your own version of xdg ? 
<Amaranth> ogra: nope, i talk to gnome-menus
<ogra> ah, cool
<LaserJock> hmm, seems like we need to steal Amaranth for an edgy spec ;-)
<Amaranth> i had a patch to make gnome-menus 2.14.0 work with alacarte cvs
<Amaranth> seb128 teased me by saying it'd be in the next gnome-menus upload, i think he meant in edgy :/
<ogra> LaserJock, hey, he's busy with the proxy ...
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> that reminds me
<Amaranth> it seems a transparent proxy can't do HTTPS
<Amaranth> so this is going to be interesting
<LaserJock> well, at least having him around to bug is nice
<ogra> well, apache can if you use it as proxy
<Amaranth> yeah, but transparently?
<Amaranth> without configuring, say, firefox to use a proxy could you use apache to do HTTPS proxying?
<ogra> transparence should happen through iptables 
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Amaranth> the squid guys say you can't do it
<Amaranth> on that note, would using a sortof man-in-the-middle attack to filter HTTPS be a bad idea?
<Amaranth> otherwise you have to rely on domain blacklisting
<Amaranth> crap, gtg
<ogra> lets talk abut it tomorrow 
<Amaranth> ok
* Amaranth adds to tomboy
<ogra> :)
* highvoltage is having trouble staying awakee
<LaserJock> ogra: bah, who cares about kubuntu meetings ;-)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> Riddell :)
<highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu
<highvoltage> lol@laserjock
<lucasvo> oh right, tomorrow is the meeting?
<ogra> tomorrow evening
<pips1> lucasvo yep
<lucasvo> crap
<lucasvo> I have exams the day after tomorrow
<ogra> well, we wont have much to talk
<ogra> dapper is out the door and edgy didnt start yet
<ogra> so main purpose will be EC meeting
<lucasvo> hm, nothing important? 
<lucasvo> good
<lucasvo> ogra: is there a maximum of members you elect?
<ogra> lol
<ogra> not at all
<ogra> bring 100 contributors and we'll approve who's appropriate 
<ogra> (probably not in one meeting though)
<lucasvo> who's on the list for tomorrow?
<lucasvo> is it in the agenda?
<ogra> yes
<lucasvo> ah Hedgemage
* pips1 is trying to find the link for the agenda
* pips1 found it
<ogra>  /topic has all important links you need ;)
<lucasvo> what's the nick of MarioDanic?
<ogra> pygi
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: pygi
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> :P
<pygi> lucasvo, what I did to you? :P
<HedgeMage> pygi: lol
<lucasvo> pygi: nothing
<lucasvo> HedgeMage, and pygi will be elected tomorro :)
<lucasvo> well hopefully 
<HedgeMage> :)
<pygi> lucasvo, nah :)
<HedgeMage> here's hoping :)
* lucasvo wishes luck
* pygi thanks lucasvo for support ;)
<HedgeMage> thanks lucasvo 
<HedgeMage> you going to be there?
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: probably not
<lucasvo> since I have a stupid french vocab test
<HedgeMage> awww :(
<HedgeMage> oh well
<lucasvo> HedgeMage: I can't elect you anyway :)
<ogra> but you can cheer for her
<lucasvo> well, I could hire a bot for me to whistle and clap the whole time
* pygi will support HedgeMage at meeting ;)
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: but I was told to bring an entourage.
<lucasvo> that'd be fun
<pygi> HedgeMage, I am planning to break the record with at least 1k people here ;)
<lucasvo> hm, ok, you can quote 
<HedgeMage> lol @ "hire a bot..."
<HedgeMage> pygi: hehe
<pips1> night all, cu tomorrow
<lucasvo> night pygi 
<pygi> night lucasvo 
<lucasvo> oh crap
<lucasvo> I wanted to write pips
<lucasvo> I am not leaving yet
<lucasvo> still got tons of schoolwork to do
<pygi> ah, oki then ;)
<Amaranth> is that at the edubuntu meeting?
<pygi> Amaranth, hm?
<Amaranth> the voting
<pygi> you mean for HedgeMage and people?
<pygi> yup
<Amaranth> i'll be there :)
<lucasvo> in about 20h
<pygi> Amaranth, o joy, I have to run away then :P
<HedgeMage> :)
<pygi> HedgeMage, what's the job status?
<pygi> (the one you applied for)
#edubuntu 2006-06-07
<lucasvo> ahh
<lucasvo> a warm bed is waiting for me
<lucasvo> good night everybody
<lucasvo> good luck pygi and hedgemage
<pygi> enjoy lucasvo ;)
<pygi> and thanks :)
<lucasvo> good night mhz :)
<pygi> hey hey mhz_ ;)
<mhz_> lucasvo: hi
<mhz_> pygi: hi
* mhz_ is not here :)
<pygi> oki ;)
<pygi> people,enjoy
<mhz> guys
<mhz> Why would clients get a diff keyboard layout than the one they can actually get when sitting at the server?
<chotchki> hey guys how do you kick off the text install in the live cd version? (i cant get x over 640x480 to do the gui install)
<Burgwork> chotchki, you can't, afaik
<chotchki> crap, is there anyway to boost the xorg server to higher resolution without having the hardware?
<Burgwork> you can try editing the xorg.conf and then restarting X
<Burgwork> saner to just use the text install
<chotchki> joy
<chotchki> thx brb
<blankey> I keep getting debootstrap warnings when I'm trying to install edubuntu. The integrity tool in the setup menu says the CD is valid though. What could be causing this?
<bddebian> Heya
<Burglaptop> anselmolsm: you around?
<anselmolsm> Burglaptop: I'm here
* Burglaptop is going to enjoy the wonderful outdoors, due to having a nice laptop
<Burglaptop> anselmolsm: shall we do this in the channel or in a /query ?
<anselmolsm> maybe in a /query
<anselmolsm> Burglaptop, maybe in a query...
<Burglaptop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoveRemoteEyeCandy <-- this looks like a seriously good thing
<jsgotangco> :P
<Burglaptop> jsgotangco: why are you not in #ubuntu-doc ?
<LaserJock> Burglaptop: lol
<jsgotangco> because i'm in a xubuntu machine that doesn't have my irc defaults in irssi
<Burglaptop> LaserJock: likely he at work
<Burglaptop> ah
<jsgotangco> i use a pretty crap laptop at work and xfce is the only thing worth running
<Burgundavia> hey HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hey burg
<HedgeMage> what's up?
<Burgundavia> not much
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia == Corey, correct?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> and Burglaptop and Burgwork
<HedgeMage> just checking :)
<HedgeMage> saw your email about that group on Vancouver Island... that's just a short road (or boat) trip from here.
<Burgundavia> indeed it is
<Burgundavia> there is a pretty strong Ubuntu community here in Victoria
<HedgeMage> cool
<HedgeMage> We should have an "edubuntu at sea" get together or something :P
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> I fly through Seattle about twice or three times a year, so we could get together then
<HedgeMage> just let me know when you are around :)
<Burgundavia> well, I am going to be there from 8pm till midnight on the 22nd :)
<HedgeMage> LOL we should get together for dinner or something if your plane is on time
<Burgundavia> taking the clipper in and then flying out at midnight
<HedgeMage> clipper?
<Burgundavia> Victoria Clipper
* HedgeMage looks dumb
<Burgundavia> http://wikitravel.org/en/Victoria_(British_Columbia)
<crimsun> I think people are more impressed with Edubuntu than "just" Ubuntu :-)
<Burgundavia> Edubuntu has a purpose
<crimsun> Gave an informal presentation on Dapper tonight to a small uni LUG, and many of the older members with children were raving about Edubuntu.
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: ahh
<Burgundavia> it is a real need
<HedgeMage> crimsun: awesome
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: I've been saying that since my days with <winces> that /other/ edu distro
<Burgundavia> which one?
<HedgeMage> debian-edu
<crimsun> Thursday night I'll try to work in a section on Edubuntu to TriLUG, hosted at Red Hat corp headquarters, which has all but been converted to Ubuntu. :-)
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: the reason I spent two months doing doc stuff while I made certain you people aren't psyhopaths before giving you any coding or packaging love :P
<Burgundavia> ah, yes
<crimsun> better beware of that Corey, he's a psycho
<Burgundavia> :)
<Burgundavia> totally unstable, can't commit to anything
<Burgundavia> random tourettes, the whole bit, thats me
<HedgeMage> lol
<Burgundavia> that is why the people in my office call the  "happy one"
<magnon> hehe, hi Corey
<Burgundavia> hey magnon, long delay on that
<magnon> yes, I lag
<Burgundavia> is the cold, effects the brain
<magnon> actually it's almost 20c these days
* Burgundavia refuses to believe it
<magnon> bah, just took a look out, it rains and all. and I woke up now (06) and going to work at 10
<HedgeMage> I'm off to bed
<HedgeMage> talk to you all later
<HedgeMage> so much for sleep.
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: I noticed that
<HedgeMage> oh, well
<HedgeMage> who needs sleep anyway?
<HedgeMage> Burgundavia: what do you think about Tom Hoffman's post to the dev list (and others) about sifa ?
<Burgundavia> HedgeMage: looked good, but I didn't relaly understand it, nor does it really affect me
<HedgeMage> Ahh, I've been rolling it around in my head a bit, trying to figure out if it's a good or bad idea
<HedgeMage> (though regardless of it being good or bad, getting it implimented in time for Edgy is nuts!)
<HedgeMage> I ran into something along those lines back in the '90s... they wanted us to impliment it in debian-edu... 
<HedgeMage> Disclaimer: I had the fun of shopping in a store full of stuff I'm allergic to today, so I'm quite out of it and may not make any sense at all)
<th1a> Hi folks.
<th1a> Yes, I agree that SIF isn't a six month project.
<th1a> Not sure how to fit something that takes longer than six months into the discussion.
* th1a is Tom Hoffman, btw.
<HedgeMage> hi th1a 
<HedgeMage> :)
<th1a> Hi HedgeMage.
<th1a> There was some kind of eduml or something that was started as an all open source interoperability standard.
<th1a> Didn't get too far.
<th1a> You might be thinking of that.
<HedgeMage> don't remember that one... the one I'm thinking of whas called ICE... interoperable classroom something...
<th1a> Huh.
<th1a> That doesn't ring a bell.
<HedgeMage> it was mid-90s I think
* HedgeMage tries to remember
<HedgeMage> maybe late 90s
<HedgeMage> it folded quickly due to poor design
<th1a> SIF is well established in the US at this point and starting to spread overseas.
* HedgeMage nods
<th1a> Just no open source tools or brainshare.
<HedgeMage> I did a little research on it earlier today
<th1a> It is neither sexy nor elegant.
<cbx33> hi all
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<th1a> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> anyone know how the email from Taskill Calvillo <taskili@buttons.net> got through onto the edubuntu-devel list?
<cbx33> did SA just not catch it?
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage th1a 
<cbx33> oh darn it, gotta go get ready for work
<HedgeMage> ok ttyl
<cbx33> see ya all soon
<HedgeMage> th1a: when I'm more coherent (sick right now) I'll look at the spec itself, but the niche, at least, needs to be filled
<th1a> We're quickly leaving the "would be nice" phase to the "badly needed" state.
<th1a> Right now I'm just trying to figure out how difficult the development will be.  Doing some prototyping.
<HedgeMage> th1a: I think support in Edubuntu would depend largely (but not completely) on upstream support from the teams who put together the apps we use.
<th1a> Of course.
<HedgeMage> I can't speak for sure, as I'm a peon around here, but I don't expect we could maintain it as a bunch of patchsets ourselves.
<th1a> The problem is that someone has to put together a ZIS.
<th1a> Frankly, I'm aiming all this more at sabdfl than the community...
* HedgeMage goes to look up "ZIS"
<th1a> but I thought I should include the larger community.
<th1a> Zone Integration Server.
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> ahh
<th1a> You need one of those to tie everything together.
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> again, sorry if I'm out of it
<th1a> Writing the "agents" for each app is relatively straightforward.
<th1a> It's ok.
<th1a> But that's the rub.  No free ZIS, no agent for free apps.
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> yeah... I'll take a look at the spec... if it's something that will hold up better than ICE I'm all for it
<th1a> SIF's biggest problem technically is its age.  It's basically an XML web services architecture that predates SOAP, XML-RPC, etc.
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<th1a> So it is definitely different than if you were to start it fresh today.
<th1a> But it works.
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> hello
<Burgundavia> hey pygi
<pygi> Burgundavia, hey hey, how are you?
<Burgundavia> good, Anselmo got started on a spec
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<pygi> Burgundavia, nice :)
<pygi> hey HedgeMage 
<pygi> Burgundavia, just poke when you have time so we can discuss stuff
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SafetyBoat
<Burgundavia> might have time tomorrow, depending on how slack I am at work
<pygi> oki, no worries
* HedgeMage leans on pygi 
<HedgeMage> have a meeting date/time for me yet?
<pygi> HedgeMage, what I did this time? :P
<HedgeMage> pygi: it's just your regularly scheduled nagging :P
<pygi> HedgeMage, meeting ... hm.. tuesday 20:00 UTC?
<pygi> ttyl
<HedgeMage> hi highvoltage 
<HedgeMage> pygi: pat yourself on the back and join jabber@conference.jabber.org
<HedgeMage> pygi: Cookbook is getting complimented :D
<HedgeMage> pygi: next tuesday at 20:00 UTC is just fine, btw
* HedgeMage prods highvoltage to see if he's awake or just teasing her
<pygi_> HedgeMage, is that day fine for you?
<HedgeMage> pygi_: yep, should be :)
<highvoltage> hi HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> ohhh, highvoltage and pygi_ together at one time, cool
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: i'm still waking up, not teasing you :)
<highvoltage> hmmm... that sounds scary
* HedgeMage wakes up highvoltage with a nice hot (or iced, up to him) cup of tea
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: ROFL
<HedgeMage> I wanted to bring up the idea of moving Cookbook from the wiki to the drupal site (using the community-edited-book module)
<HedgeMage> would still let everyone work together, and would give us a few nicities we don't have on the wiki (like automagical "show on one page" or "show one chapter per page" or printer friendly version" stuff)
<cbx33> hey all
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 :D
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
<cbx33> HedgeMage: ooooh what are we discussing?
<pygi_> HedgeMage, meeting? :)
<HedgeMage> okay :D
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: thanks :)
<HedgeMage> didn't know if we expected highvoltage to make it
<HedgeMage> or I'd have pretended to have patience ;)
<highvoltage> sorry, what's going on?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: apparently I'm more impatient than I thought :P
<cbx33> hehe
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: are you coming to the Edubuntu cookbook meeting?
<highvoltage> when is that?
<HedgeMage> next week tuesday, 20:00 UTC
<cbx33> ah that'll be ok
<cbx33> I'll see if I can come to that too
<HedgeMage> cool
<pygi_> cbx33, you are supposed to come ;)
<cbx33> that's what I thought
<cbx33> I just hadn't heard it was happening :p
<HedgeMage> cbx33: that's because I just squeezed a date and time out of mario a few minutes ago :)
<pygi_> I just made up that time few secs ago so HedgeMage would stop bothering :P
<cbx33> oh i seee
<pygi_> ergh :P
* HedgeMage bothers pygi_ some more just to prove that she's unstoppable
<HedgeMage> :P
<pygi_> I maybe won't be able to come to meeting today :(
<HedgeMage> awww :(
<HedgeMage> how come?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: yes, i can make that
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: awesome... I'll bug you about it then :D
* HedgeMage feigns patience
<pygi_> highvoltage, you got urself into big trouble now ;P
<HedgeMage> LOL
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok, although i'm not an official contributor, but since i am working on the tuxlab cookbook, i'll be available
<HedgeMage> the downside to IRC meetings, of course, is that I can't bring chocolate with which to pacify the attendees :P
<highvoltage> pygi_: i don't want to get myself in trouble with you again!
<pygi_> highvoltage, again in trouble with me? What I did to you again?
<pygi_> It seems I bring only bad stuff in here? :P
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: does that work? i've been wanting to try it with ice cream before
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: mostly want to have you because you maintain edubuntu.org and I'm going to propose moving the cookbook from wiki to drupal book :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: yes, very well actually.
* cbx33 tries to push some ice cream through the screen
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: people argue less when chewing :P
<highvoltage> pygi_: nah, it was about that cookbook chapters, remember?
<cbx33> eeewwwwwww
<pygi_> highvoltage, bah :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: and you wander why your keys get stuck!?
<HedgeMage> cbx33: the internet does not yet have a food protocol... if only it did 
<cbx33> That's a different machine
<cbx33> I don;t care about my work machine
<HedgeMage> rofl
<cbx33> you know I invented the WaT protocol for use with plastic cups and string
<cbx33> Waggle and Tug :p
<HedgeMage> rofl
<cbx33> maybe I should invent a food one too
<cbx33> ok guys got a question
<cbx33> say I have a server which has a user called pete with a uid of 500
<HedgeMage> cbx33: there is no cooked/uncooked bit in TCP/IP packet headers :P
<cbx33> and on my client machine I have a user called pete with uid of 1000
* HedgeMage listens
<cbx33> I want to mount an nfs partition
<cbx33> what are my options
<cbx33> because it won;t mount natively because the uids are different
<pygi> mount on boot throught fstab?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> just mount in general
<cbx33> nfs won;t mount if the uid's are different
<HedgeMage> sorry, cbx33, no clue... I always make them the same
<cbx33> but i didn;'t have the chance
<HedgeMage> I wasn't picking on you, just saying I'm clueless :)
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> I would have done that too if I'd have been able
<pygi> cbx33, what about "anonuid"?
<cbx33> hmm?
<pygi> ok, nevermind, ignore that
<pygi> what about keeping user in a LDAP?
<cbx33> *bah* too much trouble for now.....I've never used LDAP before
<cbx33> never mind
<cbx33> I'll just ....oooooooh
<pygi> ergh, it's not that hard to setup ;)
<cbx33> I remember I have a samba share setup
<cbx33> pygi: but it could be for someone who's never done it before
<pygi> cbx33, indeed :-
<pygi> :-/
<cbx33> hehe
<HedgeMage> Aha! figured out what the strange noise is
<HedgeMage> there was a raccoon on my balcony
<cbx33> ooooh
<HedgeMage> apparently  the anti-toddler escape measures were making its escape difficult, so it jumped for the lattice below the rail in one jump, almost falling off the balcony, then scrambling back up :)
<HedgeMage> it was kinda cute
<pygi> cbx33, hm, or another solution
<HedgeMage> though, it reminds me why I close the balcony door each night
<pygi> You may set the file to indicate static mapping for uid/gid. The option points to the file /etc/nfs/home_map.cats and may look like this:
<pygi> map_static=/etc/nfs/home map.cats
<cbx33> pygi: I'm listening
<pygi> in /etc/exports
<pygi> the home_map.cats stuff may be:
<pygi> # Mapping for cat's machines:
<pygi> #    server    client
<pygi> uid   0-60       -    # switch to nobody
<pygi> uid   61-80     41    # map 61-80 into 41-60
<HedgeMage> hi waqas 
<pygi> cbx33, do you at least have a clue about what I said? :-/
<cbx33> yeh totally
<HedgeMage> pygi: that's an awesome bit of knowledge, I'm filing it away somewhere, too
<waqas> hi HedgeMage
* HedgeMage contemplates sleep
<cbx33> pygi: would i set the map_static in the exports file?
<cbx33>  /home/pete/www          172.29.97.103(rw,map_static=/etc/nfs/www.map)
<cbx33> cos that didn't work
<cbx33> Starting NFS services:  exportfs: /etc/exports:3: unknown keyword "map_static=/etc/nfs/www.map"
<HedgeMage> we're up to four raccoons out there now (just outside, not on my balcony) and they're driving the downstairs neighbors nuts
* HedgeMage chuckles and watches
* HedgeMage thinks that's what the downstairs neighbors get for leaving food out all night
<pygi> cbx33, try putting it prior to all, and just put map_stetic in part with options
<pygi> (the map_static variable)
<pygi> map_static*
<cbx33> ?S?S?
<cbx33> :p
* pygi hasn't been doing this for a very long time :-/
<pygi> ok, this:
<cbx33> oh do you mean
<cbx33> as a single option
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hang on
<pygi> map_static=/etc/nfs/www.map
<pygi> ok, will wait
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> thanks pygi
<pygi> cbx33, worked?
<cbx33> looks like it
<pygi> congrats then ;)
<HedgeMage> yay :D
<waqas> :)
<pygi> gimme your exports file somewhere to see if you did it good :)
<waqas> HedgeMage: no-one seems to know :(
<pygi> waqas, what do you need?
<pygi> cbx33, you alive or playing with NFS? :P
<waqas> Can someone please tell me how I change the display resolution of the ubuntu login screen?
<cbx33> playing...
<cbx33> now it's complaining about something else
<waqas> googling for that just gives pages with the same question, but no answers
<pygi> cbx33, like what?
<cbx33> forward DNS
<pygi> waqas, you mean GDM login screen resoulution?
<HedgeMage> !resolution
<ubotu> resolution is, like, at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FixVideoResolutionHowto
<pygi> cbx33, exact error pls?
<waqas> yeah
* HedgeMage points waqas to what ubotu said
<pygi> HedgeMage, I dont think that influences GDM
* waqas clicks the link
<HedgeMage> pygi: I don't know what's there, I just guessed that ubotu might know something
<HedgeMage> and did a randomly-chosen command
<HedgeMage> sometimes it helps
* HedgeMage shrugs
<waqas> hmm, the page does have "GDM uses a different Resolution than my Desktop"
<HedgeMage> yay for random guessing :P
<waqas> i just hope i don'tmess up :)
<HedgeMage> you'll be fine :)
<cbx33> pygi: I sorted that problem
<cbx33> but now the mount process is hanging
<cbx33> I can't even kill -9 the process
<cbx33> :S
<pygi> cbx33, o joy :-/
<cbx33> but
<cbx33> Jun  7 10:13:50 server3 rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from debbox.stgeorgesec.st-george.southampton.sch.uk:843 for /home/pete/www (/home/pete/www)
<cbx33> so it moutned ok apparently
<pygi> nice, at least that :)
<pygi> but we still need to fix hanging
<cbx33> yes
<pygi> any info you get at terminal at what it hangs?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> gonna strace it now
<pygi> ok
<waqas> no, that page doesn't help xorg.conf is just the way it should be :(
<cbx33> and I get nothing :p
<cbx33> strace is showing nothing at all
<pygi> cbx33, can  you try booting from /etc/fstab to see will it hang at boot too
<pygi> altought ofcourse it should hang, but ...
<pygi> *ergh, then you'll  have to use live cd to fix*
<cbx33> yeh can't afford that now
<pygi> so it mounts and hangs :-/
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> may have found something
<pygi> can you try reverting the stuff you did with NFS and try again?
<pygi> hm, what?
<HedgeMage> waqas: have you asked in #ubuntu ?
<pygi> waqas, you could always change GDM built-in resolution in code if such things exist
<waqas> HedgeMage: : lots of people asked lots of things there, no one seems to be listening :(
<cbx33> nfs-common isnt installed
<cbx33> :S
<cbx33> that could cause a problem no?
<waqas> pygi: if i only knew where :)
<pygi> cbx33, o joy :)
<cbx33> so I'll try that
<HedgeMage> waqas: it's a bit slow this time of night... you may want to try about 8-10 hours from now if you'll be up, it should start to come alive again
<pygi> apt-get source gdm
<pygi> HedgeMage, it's like ... morning :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: here it's the dead of night :P
<waqas> afternoon :)
<pygi> cbx33, I can write a tutorial on how to set up a NFS if you need ;)
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I've done it before
<cbx33> but it was the uid mapping
<pygi> yea, but now we solved that ;)
<waqas> i see suggestions to change the GDM on the ubuntu forums ... just need to figure out how ...
<pygi> waqas, change the GDM? wth?
<waqas> more like GDM theme :S
<waqas> but i doubt that would work
<cbx33> w00t
<cbx33> it worked
<cbx33> thanks for all your help pygi
<pygi> cbx33, congrats and glad to be of help
<cbx33> literally I just had to put that mapping bit at the top
<cbx33> I thought ubuntu would have come with nfs-common installed
<cbx33> the funny thing was it managed to authenticate without it
<pygi> ergh, scroll up and see I told you to put it to the top :P
<cbx33> that';s probably why it hung
<cbx33> pygi: yes but you asked for me to provide an example
<cbx33> I was just stating that it was as simple as you said
<pygi> ok, ok :)
<pygi> most important thing its solved now
<cbx33> yes, thanks again for all the help
<cbx33> when are we starting on scp?
<cbx33> or what's the plan for scp
<pygi> like next week will be meeting :P
<cbx33> oooh nice
<pygi> then we'll come up with decent pla
<pygi> plan*
<cbx33> ogra will be there too i presume?
<cbx33> and a feature set?
<pygi> most probably, yes, and feature set as well
<pygi> edgy scope basicly
<cbx33> right cool
<pygi> cbx33, if you have any ideas for features, please feel free to mail me
<zeen3221> .
<cbx33> pygi: I put a few up on ogra's page
<cbx33> but we mostly agreed that most of them would take far too long to implement
<pygi> cbx33, agreed, but 24 hour work should produce some results
<pygi> cbx33, what is his page once again?
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuEdgyIdeas
<pygi> ah, yes, that :)
<pygi> cbx33, what are you interested in working on S-C-P?
<cbx33> anything i can actually help out on
<cbx33> you know my python skills
<cbx33> they are increasing everyday
<cbx33> but I'm still a python n00b
<cbx33> in a lot of ways
<cbx33> you get me?
<pygi> yup 
<pygi> ogra, can't we get people who are willing to develop stuff like this (gnome edu apps)
<pygi> review possibility to replace kdeedu with gnome apps or if thats not possible, create kdeedu specific langpacks to at least reduce the oversizedness a bit)
* cbx33 thinks he could probably write an education app now in python
<pygi> cbx33, ;)
<cbx33> a small one of course
<cbx33> what's 1+1
<cbx33> 2
<cbx33> correct :D
<cbx33> you are a very clever person
<pygi> cbx33, hehe :)
<cbx33> I can see it now
<cbx33> "And the aware for most sophisticated educational app goes to......."
<cbx33> *award
<shankr> AisleRiot
<pygi> k, laters all
<pygi> talk to you later cbx33, and good luck with award ;)
<cbx33> ok pygi 
<cbx33> (I think I have a good chance)
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> ping ogra
<EmxBA> why is here just ~30 of us
<EmxBA> yesterday here were more than 100 users
<RobinShepheard> EmxBA: They are probably busy with work or maybe in bed
<RobinShepheard> I know that some of the others are 8 hours behind gmt
<cbx33> not on #edubuntu
<cbx33> we're always about 25-35
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: Good point I dont think I have seen more
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: Are you in the office, so to speak, at the mo
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: yes
<cbx33> I'm at work
<cbx33> y?
<RobinShepheard> So you allowed to do what you want there, obviously while it is not busy
<cbx33> I'm always busy
<RobinShepheard> did think that may be the case
<cbx33> but my boss is cool with me working on edubuntu
<RobinShepheard> just always wondered about school IT departments
<RobinShepheard> sweet
<jsgotangco> :/
<cbx33> what's up jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> well...
* jsgotangco just came from the local french trade comission office
<cbx33> and?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: what did they say?
<cbx33> not good news?
<jsgotangco> "we can only recommend but cannot guarantee"
<highvoltage> :/
<RobinShepheard> still better than nothing I guess
<jsgotangco> so I'll go back to the embassy on the 14th and just expect if i get one or not
<cbx33> jsgotangco: what are you trying to get?
<highvoltage> i'm going to the embassy on the 12th (hopefully) finding out on the 13th
<jsgotangco> cbx33: a visa?
<cbx33> ahhh
<jsgotangco> well the 12th is a holiday here
<jsgotangco> well i'll know on the 14th if its a deal or no deal :/
<cbx33> jsgotangco: is this for paris?
<jsgotangco> if they deny me, france gets the distincition of the first country to tarnish my perfect passport
<jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah
<cbx33> jsgotangco: where are you from again?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: Manila, Philippines
<cbx33> would I have to get a visa?
<cbx33> if I were going?
<jsgotangco> i doubt
<cbx33> bearing in mind I'd have to get my passport updated
<cbx33> why do you?
<Yagisan> cbx33: he's not from the EU
<jsgotangco> yep
<cbx33> ah i see
<cbx33> If I were travelling to the States, would I need one?
<jsgotangco> i've had visa entries to the US, AU, Japan, korea, china, singapore but france gets to spoil the party heh
<Yagisan> cbx33: a local example. I can go to New Zealand without a visa, but my wife can't
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i doubt that
<highvoltage> i can go to all commonwealth countries without a visa, such as UK, Australia, India, etc.
<jsgotangco> i can go to some places too
<jsgotangco> ironically i can go to south africa and cameroon without a visa
<jsgotangco> not to mention a bunch of south east asian nations
<jsgotangco> im just getting pissed at all these hassles for a 7 day trip
<cbx33> yeh
<jsgotangco> not to mention i have to take time off at work
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: it's france, what do you expect :-P
<highvoltage> *sigh*
<jsgotangco> i'd say a joke about france but it's sick don't bother
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco will move to a G8 country someday
* highvoltage will start his own country one day, and jsgotangco will be welcome
<jsgotangco> would it be tax free?
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> how do you know if you can travel to a country or not
<Yagisan> cbx33: you check their embassy website
<cbx33> ah
<jsgotangco> cbx33: you're british, any country will accept you
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: so which g8 country did you have in mind ?
<jsgotangco> good question
<jsgotangco> france?
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> hey pygi_ 
<pygi_> hey cbx33 
<jsgotangco> cbx33: you'll probably just need a visa waiver most likely
<cbx33> i suppose I should really get my passport
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: When you do get it, pay the 3 or 4 quid to the post office for the checking service, you will get it back a lot quicker
<cbx33> yeh?
<cbx33> cool
<RobinShepheard> yeah, and you wont wait a fortnight and get it sent back to you if there is a mistake, they tell you about it and you can go and get it fixed same day
<cbx33> how long does it take
<RobinShepheard> well I got mine back in a week, but the do still say allow 3 weeks
<cbx33> wow
<RobinShepheard> mate who did it by post took 2.5 weeks
<mhz> hi guys
<mhz> got Meeting today?
<pygi> hey hey mhz 
<cbx33> yes
<pygi> yup
<cbx33> 20:00 utc
<mhz> 12 utc?
<mhz> 20 utc?
<pygi> 20 utc
<jsgotangco> fruck...i just remembered
<jsgotangco> 20UTC is 4AM
<jsgotangco> yay
<cbx33> eeek
* jsgotangco will just have to sleep early then
<mhz> Has any of you had this issue with edubuntu clients?: I log in from clients and I get US keyboard layout instead of already set ES layout at server side. I installed xubuntu-desktop package on top of default edubuntu one and even after setting GNOME as default, clients still get xubuntu.
<mhz> jsgotangco: sorry i brought it up to you
<jsgotangco> not at all
* jsgotangco sets up the alarm clock
<ogra> jsgotangco, if we're more than 3 EC members we have quorum, no need for the alarm clock 
<mhz> jsgotangco: I now have about 978 emails in inbox. Could you spare me the filtering, please, and tell confirm me if you're gonna use the Edubuntu via Netboot wiki page in newsletter?
<jsgotangco> mhz: yes
<mhz> lol
<mhz> yes what?
<ogra> mhz, how did you set the keyboard layout ?
<jsgotangco> yes i've added it for the ubuntu newsletter for this week
<mhz> ogra: 1st) when fresh installing, I used spanish for everything and even downloaded langpack. 2nd) When I created each client-user for test purposes, I  personally loged in at the server side, using each client-user name and set GNOME as default and spanish as lang.
<jsgotangco> well i'll try to wake up just in case
<ogra> mhz, and did you also follow https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPClientKeymap ? :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: thx, so no need to wiki an article today ;)
<mhz> ogra: hmmmmm, nope, because when I loged in at the server (from server machine) I got everything working for each client-user, so I thought it was all ok until yesterday night, the day people were invited to test it :D (yeah, I am stupid)
<mhz> and if I had had the time to look up in the wiki, I would have looked up "Edubuntu..."pages ;)
<ogra> mhz, for the desktop session, sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager might be handy :)
<mhz> so, if you say that page is good, I'll create a link to it from an EdubuntuLTSPClientKeymap ?
<ogra> ??
<jsgotangco> mmm nice pics of mako's wedding
<mhz> I mean, I have always encouraged newcomers to lookup wiki pages starting by EdubuntuBlaBLa
<RobinShepheard> just a quick one, I have a straight install from the disk with now changes made. I have just tried to find the said path and I find I have no ltps subdir in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc
<mhz> because of the LTSP v/s Edubuntu kind of 'confusion' (many only installing normal default LTSP instead of xubuntu or edubuntu ltsp installs
<ogra> mhz, well, we just made some effort to put everyything in one place under UbuntuLTSP
<mhz> oh, I apologize then, I had no idea
<ogra> since its not edubuntu specific documentation
<mhz> indeed
<cbx33> we're trying mhz :p
<RobinShepheard> do I need to create the file or is it a modification to it??
<mhz> RobinShepheard: weired
<mhz> RobinShepheard: edubuntu <enter> (or default install) should provide that for you
<mhz> and you should only need to provide the network specs
<RobinShepheard> I did the default install
<mhz> RobinShepheard: however, if that did happen as you mention, then it is weired.
<ogra> its not needed for a running ltsp setup, you need to create it if you want to tweak the defaults
<RobinShepheard> I editted the dhcp config file but I do not have the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp dir, the dirs go from lsb-release to magic
<RobinShepheard> so it is not created by default
<ogra> why would you want to edit a dhcp server config in the client environment ? 
<mhz> ogra: oh, I am not a good example then because I usually interact with IRC people in my thin edubuntu-laptop-server which is installed via netboot and then manually installing edubuntu stuff ;(
<ogra> look in /etc/ltsp on the server not in the client root
<mhz> so I usually dont get the 'defaults'
<RobinShepheard> no this is on the server
<mhz> RobinShepheard: /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> for tweaks of the client functionallity you can edit/create /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf ... all other settings are server side
<RobinShepheard> mhz: I have that and have /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf, it was whether the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp should have been created by default
<ogra> nope
<RobinShepheard> ahhh that explains why I cant find it then
<ogra> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is a file to configure the dhcp server, so nothing that should live in the clients chroot
<RobinShepheard> ogra: all editing of the files is on the server
<ogra> what made you think you could find it in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp ?
* ogra is curious if we have broken docs anywhere
<RobinShepheard> ogra: I am looking for the ltsp.conf file listed on the getting started page which says about setting things like the keyboard type
<ogra> sure all editing happens on the server, but /opt/ltsp/i386 is what the client sees as /
<ogra> as i said that file isnt there, you need to create it
<ogra> its only used if you need to tweak the defaults
<RobinShepheard> ok I understand, it just isn't clear from the documentation whether you created it or whether you should just be editing an existing file
<cbx33> ogra: think that a jabber server or something similar by default is possible for edgy?
<RobinShepheard> ogra: page says "This file is available at /opt/ltsp/(ARCH)/etc/lts.conf. Replace (ARCH) with your architecture, for example, if you installed the i386 version, you'll find this file at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf." I took this to mean it should already be there
<ogra> cbx33, no idea, depends on the spec ;)
<ogra> RobinShepheard, ouch ...
<ogra> highvoltage, ? ^^^^
<ogra> can you change that ?
<RobinShepheard> sorry, I just got a bit confused that was all
<ogra> RobinShepheard, good catch, thanks a lot :)
<RobinShepheard> sorry for getting you to repeat youself earlier
<ogra> dont worry :)
<cbx33> is this something that needs changing on the edubuntu site?
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> gimme details I can do it
<ogra> in the gettingstarted doc
<cbx33> ok
<RobinShepheard> http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<RobinShepheard> it is under "Fine-tuning the thin client setup"
<ogra> cbx33, the file isnt there, if you want to tweak default settings of all or one client you need to create it first
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> I'll adjust
<RobinShepheard> I am just going to grab a sandwich for lunch, I will be back in 5 mins or so
<ogra> (we simply dont create an empty file to avoid additional IO operations during boot)
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> I'll reword
<ogra> if the file would be there, the bootscripts would parse it even if its empty ... if it doesnt exist, getltscfg (the parser) isnt even loaded into memory
<cbx33> ogra: edited
<cbx33> what d'ya think?
<ogra> for example, if you installed the i386 version, you'll need to create this file /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf 
<ogra> for example, if you installed the i386 version, you'll need to create this file *as* (?) /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf 
<ogra> or: under the name
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> done
<jsgotangco> ahh nice dinner
<cbx33> there's something wrong with the system monitor
<cbx33> it's showing 40% usage
<cbx33> but the process isn't showing up in top, or system monitor
<ogra> hmm, somehow the menu is broken for me now
<cbx33> which menu?
<ogra> css of gettingstarted
<cbx33> looks fine here
<cbx33> try a forced refresh
<cbx33> we've had this issue on the ubuntu site too
<cbx33> even though one uses moin and the other uses drupal
<cbx33> I was talking to heno about it yesterday
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, i can change that. i will fix it with other updates
<cbx33> fixed?
<cbx33> highvoltage: what's the issue?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/shot.png
<cbx33> hh i see
<cbx33> can't we whack a minimum on the content div?
<flint> JaneW, you around?
<highvoltage> hi flint
<cbx33> hey flint 
<highvoltage> flint: how's colin doing? he's been real quiet.
<flint> hey gents!
<JaneW> hello - I am kind of here
<JaneW> very sick though :(
<cbx33> awww
<cbx33> how so?
<flint> highvoltage, well Jonathan, I am trying to keep track of Colin, I will get back to you with a report
<highvoltage> flint: ok :)
<flint> highvoltage, when is the edubuntu meeting?
<cbx33> 20:00 utc
<flint> never can get time zones right...
<highvoltage> JaneW: oh man, hope you're better soon. are you coming by again before you move on?
<highvoltage> flint: 20:00 UTC
* cbx33 passes JaneW some pixie dust :p
<flint> it is now 01:03 UTC eh?
<cbx33> 12:00 utc now
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> (yep@cbx33)
<flint> gotcha...  I really prefer a specific time for the edubuntu meeting.
<cbx33> flint: why not pop into #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> we only have two alternating times to cover all timezones
<cbx33> and use the schedule thingy
<flint> JaneW, I am really sorry you are not feeling well.   I like you when you are fiesty!
<ogra> JaneW, do you have some holiday before starting the new job at least ? 
<flint> The schedule thingy needs a clock to tell you the current time...
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> @schedule london
<cbx33>  @schedule london
<highvoltage> do it in -meeting
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> flint, date -u tells you the current utc time :)
<flint> cbx33, I am on #ubuntu-meeting now...
<flint> ogra, olli that is most useful.  wonder what it would take to get this displayed on the front of the fridge?
<ogra> thats a question for jdub :)
<cbx33> I'm still waiting for my blog to be added to planet :p
<flint> ogra, gotcha... just another random thought. 
<jsgotangco> flint: tzwatch
<flint> back in DC last week, kinda like visiting Dante's inferno... but more facist...
<flint> jsgotangco, gotit just forget to load utc as a time...
<flint> try to get away with london time mostly... :^)
<jsgotangco> heh
* jsgotangco uses tzwatch a lot
<JaneW> highvoltage: I was hoping to come in this week, but I seem to have the plague suddenly :(
<JaneW> ogra: no sadly no break in between
<flint> highvoltage, @schedule est Jonathan, you are a genius... 
<ogra> JaneW, gah, that sucks+
<flint> i understand that mdz in in london lately.
* jsgotangco notices a lot of people he knows is under a plague of sorts
<ogra> starting a new job and being ill that is
<JaneW> cbx33: nag jdub, he sometimes takes a prod or 2 to respond
* jsgotangco included
<ogra> flint, he's back since two days
<JaneW> flint: mdz is home now
<cbx33> and neither am I :p
<cbx33> JaneW: I'll leave it a little longer its not that important
<cbx33> hmmm I sent those two messages the other way round
<flint> ogra, good I will hassle him.  DC sucked me in last week.
<flint> not immediately however, mdz needs his beauty sleep (trust me :^)
<ogra> JaneW, will you be at the meeting if you are sick ? (since its you last meeting as i just realized)
<flint> This NECC thing is a big event in the US and has been good for edubuntu.  you all following it?
<cbx33> flint: yup
<cbx33> hoping they will jump on doing BETT2007
<cbx33> in london
<flint> cbx33, the trick is that it is on the other coast, and I just do not have the time/money to support it.
<RobinShepheard> what is bett2007??
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: 
<cbx33> hang on
<flint> RobinShepheard, British Educational Technology...
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BETTShow2007
<RobinShepheard> cheers
<cbx33> I'm trying to persuade
<flint> cbx33, good idea setting up a BETT wiki.  I may try to emulate you in this for NECC...
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> lucky that NECC is going ahead though
<flint> cbx33, thanks...
<cbx33> I'm hoping canonical are going to give it the thumbs up
<cbx33> but funding is going to be an issue
<jsgotangco> if not no reason why not having a community behind it
<jsgotangco> :P
<cbx33> it is rather expensive
<jsgotangco> ahh
<flint> cbx33, Tom and Steve are pushing this very hard.  I may try to do something today... Funding is THE issue.
<cbx33> we're wondering if we could get some thrid party vendors of hardware to help out
<cbx33> by saying if ubuntu runs on here OOTB
<flint> cbx33, all we can do is one foot in front of another.
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> BETT2007 application date is closing fast
<cbx33> I only have another few months
<RobinShepheard> I would be willing to devote sometime to lend a hand on the stand if need be and could probably be persuaded to donate 50 quid if needs be
* jsgotangco would love to visit those shows someday
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: that'd be fantastic
<cbx33> jsgotangco: come over to london
<flint> cbx33, NECC grants a lot to the Edubuntu mafia, including booth space, actually something they call the open source garden...
<jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah right, i couldn't even get a french visa easily :P
<jsgotangco> schengen rather
<flint> jsgotangco, where are you from my man?
<jsgotangco> flint: from your former colony lol
<flint> I can see the french not giving Ollie a visa, but he does smoke cigarretts so he is probably ok by them...
<RobinShepheard> that narrows it down to most of the world if flint is english
<flint> jsgotangco, sadly the Empire has had many colonies over the years...
<ogra> you dont need a visa in europe as european, you dont even need a passport to travel
<cbx33> ogra: I thought that
<flint> ogra, thought I could get a rise out of you!  
<cbx33> but I was told by someone else otherwise
<cbx33> does that mean I could travel to paris without a passport?
<cbx33> anyway, the more people I can get involved in BETT2007 the better
<flint> ogra, hell Ollie, you dont even change money any more?  life is good in europe.
<RobinShepheard> if you are from uk you can in theory travel on a photocard drivers license to another eu country but it is grief of the largest kind, easier to get a passport
<cbx33> if canonical can see people are going to be avilable to man it, they will be more likely to back it
<ogra> does the uk count as europe ?
<RobinShepheard> yeah it does ogra
<flint> ogra, absolutely not.  God save the Queen!
<RobinShepheard> it is a member of the european union
<cbx33> moodle made it there last year, and had a fantastic time....sooo many people interested in open source
<ogra> well, being there never gives me the impression :)
<jsgotangco> it is to proud to use the 
* jsgotangco hides
<jsgotangco> :)
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: damn right we are :)
<JaneW> ogra: I am going to really try to be at the meeting
<ogra> jsgotangco, haha
<cbx33> but there was ZERO linux presence
<cbx33> which is why I feel so strongly that edubuntu should be there
<RobinShepheard> the pound is far superior than that new fangled currency they use on the mainland :)
<ogra> JaneW, well, if you cant, dont do it... only if you feal healthy enough
<jsgotangco> cbx33: that would be interesting indeed backed up by a strong community
<ogra> *feel 
<cbx33> yeh
<jsgotangco> lol
<flint> RobinShepheard, BTW I am from the US Empire.  I am currently in hiding in the Republic of Vermont.
<RobinShepheard> ahh, well you will get over it :)
<ogra> in germany a pound is still half a kilo :)
<flint> RobinShepheard, god help us we have over two years to go.
<RobinShepheard> ???? two years to go ?????
<RobinShepheard> ahh bush
<flint> RobinShepheard, do not get me started, this channel is likely monitored.  I am serious.
<RobinShepheard> ogra: still is here if you ask the average british
<RobinShepheard> ok no worries, I know where you are coming from
<cbx33> flint: is everyone as cautious as you?
<RobinShepheard> another time and place for that conversation I guess
<cbx33> flint: come to BETT2007 ;P we can chat there hehehehe
<ogra> heh, yes :)
<flint> cbx33, you have never lived in a facist state.  trust me. ok campers, I need to go.  
<flint> thanks.
<cbx33> take care flint 
<ogra> flint, will you be at the meeting ? 
<RobinShepheard> cya later flint
<highvoltage> see ya flint 
<ogra> flint, its JaneW's farewell meeting (in case she survives until tonight)
<flint> ogra, eight tonight I will try
<highvoltage> flint: you don't happen to listen to System Of A Down, do you? what you said about the fascist state reminds me of some of their lyrics
<highvoltage> oh. gone. :(
<RobinShepheard> system ROCK
<highvoltage> yep.
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> RATM anyone?
<jsgotangco> sure
<RobinShepheard> no there is a name I haven't heard in a long time
<RobinShepheard> what happened to them cbx33
<jsgotangco> i guess no one digs british metal
<RobinShepheard> hey don't knoch Iron Maiden and the like
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> Metallica
<RobinShepheard> doh knock
<cbx33> heard Saliva?
* jsgotangco has a good judas priest collection
<RobinShepheard> nah, don't recognise the name
<RobinShepheard> Judas Priest, another blast from my past
<cbx33> seen fast and the furious
<cbx33> two tracks in ther ei think
<cbx33> click click boom
<cbx33> and superstar
<RobinShepheard> how do you get the asterisk for the actions??
<cbx33> type /me
<cbx33> before it
<cbx33>  /me eats pies
* cbx33 eats pies
* jsgotangco tickles cbx33
<RobinShepheard> ahh, I got you, like I have said in the past I am new to this IRC stuff
<cbx33> heh
* RobinShepheard shakes head in amazement at the simplicity
* ogra covers from the flying around pie pieces from the laughing cbx33 
* jsgotangco <3 IRC
* RobinShepheard wonders what he has started
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 offers some pie to ogra 
* ogra eats some pie 
<ogra> cbx33, thanks !
* RobinShepheard dishes out the beers (_)? (_)? (_)?
<cbx33> ogra: I collected all the bits and made a pie just for you :p
<RobinShepheard> just to wash down the pie of course
<ogra> lol
<jsgotangco> ogra: is hwdb going to make a comeback in edgy?
<ogra> looks like
<jsgotangco> i was thinking of some stuff
<RobinShepheard> will it be a proper database backend??
<ogra> mdz seems fond of it .. and there is a kde frok going on
<jsgotangco> then made some glade mockup
<cbx33> hwdb?
<ogra> a frok woth a fork indeed :)
<ogra> agrh
<ogra> *with
<jsgotangco> cbx33: hardware database
<cbx33> ogra: you're typing is getting worse...
<ogra> yes
<cbx33> jsgotangco: as i suspetced
<jsgotangco> cbx33: collects info on your system then uploads it to ogra's server
<RobinShepheard> must be the beers :~)
<cbx33> it's is it differnt to the device database?
<ogra> time to get some programming done and stay away a bit from IRC (read time for edgy to open)
<cbx33> see ya later ogra 
<cbx33> I got some PHP to code
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> cbx33: its currently integrated into the deveice db
<cbx33> ah kk
<ogra> i'm waiting for edgy ...
<jsgotangco> device manager even
<cbx33> it's gonna be aseperate entity again?
<ogra> yes
<RobinShepheard> as I understand it, it is lacking in a database backend isn't it
<RobinShepheard> hwdb that is
<ogra> but the code needs splitting in front and backend
<ogra> that too
<ogra> there is no sql database in place 
<ogra> but actually the frontend needs a lot fixage too
<jsgotangco> i was thinking of having people link it to their LP profiles if they wanted to
* cbx33 just tried to submit about his keyboard not working
<ogra> the code is crap, its not translateable and it lacks the split in front and backend
<jsgotangco> well
* cbx33 is schocked to here such language from ogra :p
<ogra> additionally the tests need some reworking
<jsgotangco> ogra: i've branched from your bzr-archive i assume that's updated?
<ogra> cbx33, its a very bad coded app ... i know it, i wrote it
<ogra> its code that makes me actually blush if outhers look at it
* cbx33 hangs on ogras every semi-colon
<RobinShepheard> guess you can't really argue with that
<cbx33> how does it post the data?
<ogra> jsgotangco, its missing the last change, i'll merge that, its also not switched to knits yet iirfc
<jsgotangco> flat file
<jsgotangco> hrmmm
<cbx33> http?
<ogra> cbx33, on my webserver there is a directory with 266747 bziped flatfiles in it ...
<jsgotangco> i mostly see mvo's merge heh
<cbx33> but how does it post it to you?
<ogra> yes, the server has an http upload cgi script the client attaches to
<cbx33> just cos it doesn;t work here
<cbx33> probably q proxy issue
<cbx33> if you could add global proxy support that'd be ace :p
<RobinShepheard> daft question but if it is posting via http, could you not post to a cgi script to insert it into a database??
<ogra> thats a bug inn the client, it doesnt use proxies
<RobinShepheard> send as variables rather than a flatfile
<cbx33> yeh thought so
<ogra> cbx33, there is a global projxy setup thats simply not respected :)
<RobinShepheard> like a submission from a webpage
<cbx33> ogra: as i suspected
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<ogra> RobinShepheard, thats exactly what it does ... just that nobody wrote the DB and the backend for that script yet :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> it's a big file isnt it
<ogra> the directory ?
<ogra> ~5GB
<cbx33> no the file
<cbx33> yes I'd imagine that'd be quite big
<RobinShepheard> dunno what happened there
<RobinShepheard> is there an option in ltsp.conf to just set the screen resolution
<RobinShepheard> am I still connected, internet is doing funny things
<RobinShepheard> I am getting 30s lag
<bimberi> RobinShepheard: i'm seeing you :)
<RobinShepheard> cheers bimberi, just wanted to check as I had seen no traffic and lag was upto 60s just a min ago
<cbx33> sorry RobinShepheard I'm seeing you
<RobinShepheard> It is okay, just a bit worrying 60s lag on a 2 meg leased line
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: ouch I just looked at the pricing for the BETT show
<RobinShepheard> 354+vat per square metre
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> as i said very *NOT* cheap
<cbx33> hence needing financial backing in a big way
<cbx33> but I think it would be so good for us
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: you have my full agreement, just it makes my 50 look fairly pathetic
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> well it's the time I would value more
<cbx33> we need to show that we have people who are willing to man the stands
<RobinShepheard> I can always take a few days holiday to help. Accomodation is the only real problem
<cbx33> yeh
<RobinShepheard> but that can always be arranged some how, even if I have to call in a few favours
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: I can always bring a laptop with edubuntu installed as well
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: I may try putting the idea to the dorset lug tonight, see if we can do a whip round for some cash
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: well
<cbx33> ask if they'd be willing
<cbx33> we need the ok from canonical before we can do anything like that
<cbx33> but please spread the word
<cbx33> see if we can get more people interested
<EmxBA> hi folks
<EmxBA> it's me again
<EmxBA> :D
<jsgotangco> ahh goodie wasabi potato chips from my wife
<jsgotangco> yessss
<EmxBA> lol
<highvoltage> wasabi. *shivers*
<cbx33> highvoltage: howz the website going?
<cbx33> 27 degrees celcius in our office today
<EmxBA> highvoltage, what's up :D
<mhz> http://sifinfo.org/ <-- very interesting, indeed
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: wasabi snorting take that
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> ah, EmxBA is gone again
<highvoltage> cbx33: i've applied everyones suggestions to the xubuntu drupal site (should be up tomorrow), and i'll reapply some of the cool things from that to eudbuntu
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> need any help?
<highvoltage> yes, let's talk about that tonight
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> in da meeting?
<highvoltage> before the meeting, if you can
<cbx33> yeh sure
<cbx33> I'm all geared up to work tonight
<cbx33> have told AliasVegas and she has loads of work to do too
<cbx33> so it works out ell for us
<highvoltage> ok, bye!
<cbx33> see ya all a bit later
<bddebian> Hello
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pygi> hello highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey pygi 
<highvoltage> howzit?
<lucasvo> hi 
<highvoltage> hi lucasvo 
<highvoltage> ogra: /win 11
<lucasvo> cool
<highvoltage> sorry ogra, got distracted :)
<lucasvo> I shared about 1000% of edubutu torrents
<lucasvo> :P
<ogra> highvoltage, there was also nothing intresing in win 11 for me
<lucasvo> silly guy on the ML telling someone to install vmware on a lame machine to speed it
<bddebian> hehe
<lucasvo> ogra: you two have same irc settup?
<highvoltage> ogra: what i was going to ask you previously, how to you feel about the 'show commercial applications' button in gnome-app install?
<ogra> lucasvo, unlikely :)
<Burgwork> highvoltage, it sucks and is misleading
<ogra> bug 44925 you mean ? 
<highvoltage> Burgwork: i'm starting a campaign against it, please add your comment here: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-app-install/+bug/44925
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, 44925.
<ogra> :)
<LaserJock> ack, I'm going to have to think about that
<LaserJock> I'm not very well versed in FSF propaganda ;-)
<lucasvo> I think third-pryt is the most appopriate
<lucasvo> even though not everything is thir party
<lucasvo> maybe a simple "more info" button would solve the problem
<LaserJock> what does the button do? open up Restricted and Multiverse?
<highvoltage> lucasvo: "third party" would be several more factors acurate than what it currently says. do you mind mentioning that in a coment on that bug entry?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: ok
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i think so, yes. it seems that it's all non-free software
<LaserJock> "third party" that generally means not in one of the offical Ubuntu repos doesn't it?
<LaserJock> and "proprietary" doesn't work?
<highvoltage> proprietary would be the most correct term
<LaserJock> I think "third party" should be avoided
<highvoltage> but someone told mvo that he shouldn't put that there (mvo didn't tell me who told him that)
<LaserJock> hmm
<lucasvo> proprietary is a quite strong word
<highvoltage> i also think it should ideally say 'proprietary', with a 'more info' button.
<lucasvo> but correct
<lucasvo> no, actually it's not
<highvoltage> this way, users can understand why proprietary software is available for ubuntu
<lucasvo> libcss is not proprietary
<highvoltage> it has patent issues.
<lucasvo> != proprietary
<ubotu> I don't know, try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, lucasvo
<lucasvo> ubotu: shut up
<ubotu> Do they come in packets of five. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, lucasvo
<highvoltage> heh
<lucasvo> *lol*
<highvoltage> wither way, those words should change, imo.
<lucasvo> at least this bot has not some faked inteligence
<LaserJock> lucasvo: libcss is open source?
<RobinShepheard> daft question but what is the official definition of open source??
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: I'd go look at www.gnu.org
<lucasvo> LaserJock: afaik yes
<highvoltage> LaserJock: no, that's free software :)
<lucasvo> http://www.stearns.org/libcss/ License: GPL
<LaserJock> hmm
<highvoltage> the open source definition is at: http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php
<RobinShepheard> does it have to conform to gpl or what about bsd
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ah, cool
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: cheers
* LaserJock is showing his lack of FLOSS (or whatever acronym I should be using) understanding
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: see the link i just posted, it explains the conditions for software to be open source, that site also lists licenses that are certified as open source licenses
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: I am just reading it now
<lucasvo> highvoltage: btw, in CH it's 100% legally to use libcss
<lucasvo> ogra: how big is the chance to add a vocabular trainer to edubuntu which is webbased and is in need of an apache?
<RobinShepheard> afaik it is in england as well
<LaserJock> ok, so then what's the difference between Free software (www.gnu.org) and Open Source software (www.opensource.org)
<lucasvo> only the stupid americans have that law
<RobinShepheard> mit license isn't recognised by fsf is it
<LaserJock> I would think so
<highvoltage> lucasvo: in .za too
<highvoltage> LaserJock: Richard Stallman started with what's called Free software a few decades ago (that you probably know)
<highvoltage> the term "free software" is a Free Software Foundation term.
<highvoltage> in 1998, Bruce Perens said that the term 'free software' is confusing for users, so he coined the term open source.
<lucasvo> I knew highvoltage was the one who picks up this question :)
<highvoltage> Richard Stallman doesn't like the term open source, and the FSF and OSI doesn't work together.
<highvoltage> RMS insists that you call it Free software, not open source software
<RobinShepheard> I did not realise but yast uses a non free license
<LaserJock> ok, but they are basically equivalent?
<highvoltage> although, all the FSF licenses are OSI approved (GPL / LPGL / etc)
<LaserJock> RobinShepheard: I thought they relicensed it, but I could be wrong
<highvoltage> yast did have a non-free license. novell has recently made it open source, although apparently the tools used to create yast is still non-free (from my understandings of previous articles)
<RobinShepheard> LaserJock: I am only going by FSF web site, I cant say that I know or that I am really that bothered
<highvoltage> yes, they are equivilent, but they have different goals.
<highvoltage> OSI's goals is to make what's called open source software more 'corporate friendly'
<RobinShepheard> I cant claim to be really that inpressed with suse, I find it a bit slow and clunky, which is the reason I tried ubuntu
<LaserJock> personally I have trouble with "free software" because I think of "$0 software"
<highvoltage> while the FSF's goals is, among other things, to creat the GNU operating system, and to get involved in politics to fix legislation.
<RobinShepheard> I prefer that term open source
<highvoltage> i support both initiatives.
<crimsun> from http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/philosophy : "Ubuntu is happy to call itself open source." :-)
<highvoltage> sabdfl used to only say "Open Source"
<highvoltage> you'll see him use the term 'free software' more and more these days.
<LaserJock> did RMS kick his butt? ;-)
<highvoltage> i doubt it.
<RobinShepheard> I approve of the free as in speach but it is hard to convince people that it is quality because everyone hears the word free, where as people don't seem to think the same about open source in my experience
<LaserJock> me too
<highvoltage> well, RMS once said, there's 8 definitions for free in the dictionairy, only one of them implies $0, the rest of them freedom.
<crimsun> I suppose that coming from a family of educators the word "free" has always implied commitment and high quality.
<highvoltage> so i think he's entitled to call it free software.
<LaserJock> yes, but how often is the one usage applied towards a product?
<highvoltage> fat free!
<RobinShepheard> sugar free
<LaserJock> sure
<RobinShepheard> free giveaway
* highvoltage would like one microsoft-free laptop, please!
<LaserJock> "open source" implies nothing about the cost
* RobinShepheard has a microsoft free laptop
<highvoltage> it also adds confusion. i've come across many people who think that open source software is just about 'having access to sourcecode'
* RobinShepheard uses an edubuntu power laptop and uses evolution to connect to mail
<highvoltage> but i agree with you
<highvoltage> 'free software' is confusing for Mr Bob.
<LaserJock> I guess I'm just too cheap, I've never paid (directly) for any software in my life
<crimsun> that's why I use "Free/Libre/Open Source Software" (FLOSS)
<LaserJock> crimsun: I like that term
<LaserJock> especially since you have to talk about it for new people to know what's going on
<highvoltage> yeah, FLOSS is like the all-encompasing, politically correct blanket acronym
* bddebian decides to FLOSS his teeth ;-P
<RobinShepheard> my languages are very bad, what does libre translate to in english
<highvoltage> it's libre as in 'liberating'
<highvoltage> i think it might be a french word.
<LaserJock> if you say "free" or "open" people are generally going to say, "oh yeah, I know what that means"
<RobinShepheard> ahhh I did wonder, I think you are right in the french connection
<LaserJock> it is a french word, isn't it in their motto or whatever
<LaserJock> sort of
<mhz> yeah, good tip, esp. in front of spanish speakers :)
<RobinShepheard> dunno, geography never was my strong point
<mhz> the problem for spanish speakers is that they dont understand/associate FLOSS to Software Libre 
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: where do you live?
<mhz> unless they are involved in FLOSS :)
<RobinShepheard> uk, bournemouth. It is on the south coast
<crimsun> mhz: what generally is better semantically?
<mhz> Libre is from Latin origin and in spanish is Libre
<mhz> 'libre' in spanish makes the big difference from 'gratis' which we do translate as 'free of charge' in english
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: is there an intention of creating loco groups for Edubuntu?? or will we use the Ubuntu ones??
<LaserJock> hmm, that's interesting mhz
<LaserJock> maybe English just needs to get with it and seperate out the definitions ;-)
<RobinShepheard> lets face it, english is a far from perfect language
<mhz> so, for any spanish speaker reading "Free software" they can mainly understand "Free of charge Software" unless you tell them Free as in freedom Software OR ... Software Libre
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: there's already one loco group in Italy
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: No I am from the UK, bournemouth on the south coast
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: but yes, that's perhaps something we need to expand on
<mhz> or... Open Source Software
<LaserJock> crimsun: btw, I started reading "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist" :-)
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: sorry, i didn't mean to imply that you were in Italy :)
<mhz> LaserJock: from Python" or from C" ?
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: No problem, my mistake I think
<LaserJock> Python
<LaserJock> I don't know if I'll ever tackle C
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: I would be willing to try and start one in the UK if there is enough interest, or at least be a point of contact
<highvoltage> cbx33 would definately be interested.
<crimsun> C is beautiful. C++ makes me weep. Java stabs me in the gut. Python pours me wine.
<RobinShepheard> I notice there isn't apparently an Ubuntu one either
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: He only lives about 25 miles from me
<highvoltage> crimsun: i think i'll quote you on that some time :)
<mhz> crimsun: it all depends on which meaning you want to give to the reader. In spanish lang. 'Free' accepts both trasnlations, with no exception :( :  'libre' (free as in freedom) and 'gratis' (free of charge). Hence Richard Stallman named his book, "Free as in Freedom", just to keep it clear
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yep, I've just copy-n-pasted that into my archives :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: :)
<crimsun> mhz: makes [semantic]  sense given my rudimentary knowledge of Spanish
* mhz hides again behind his 300 yet unread emails and his ToDo list :(
<mhz> crimsun: hehe, I am glad to help
<LaserJock> crimsun: why is C beautiful? if I can go a little OT for a sec
<crimsun> LaserJock: the entire language is easily described in a compact volume (K&R)
<crimsun> aka 'the C bible'
<RobinShepheard> well it should be, they wrote the language as well as the book :)
<Amaranth> i'm suddenly remembering that i hate socket programming :P
<crimsun> LaserJock: C's actually very, very easy to understand as you read that K&R reference. It's when you start trying to /do/ stuff with it -- if you're used to slapping down solutions -- that it becomes a real issue.
<LaserJock> hmm
<RobinShepheard> LaserJock: planning is a must
<highvoltage> mhz: edubuntu chile, would you consider that a loco team?
<Amaranth> my only problem with C is that i (quoted from a friend) "go all mad professor"
<LaserJock> well, my boss (who only knows Fortran and C) wrote our data aquisition program (curses+pgplot) and I need to modify it
<mhz> highvoltage: hmmm, hmmm, hmmmm
<LaserJock> and I'm petrified of the code
<mhz> highvoltage: after FET or before?
<crimsun> On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't teach C to middle schoolers. I usually start with Python for the kids I tutor.
<highvoltage> mhz: i don't think it is officially yet, but perhaps we should put it through the EC at some stage and make it official?
<mhz> highvoltage: I could answer that after FET, where we'll see for real who is who and what they'll do
<highvoltage> mhz: after would be fine too
<LaserJock> crimsun: now I feel really old :-)
<highvoltage> yep, sounds good.
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<RobinShepheard> LaserJock: planning is a must:
<RobinShepheard> doh key slip
<cbx33> LaserJock, I managed to create my first package
<highvoltage> i felt very old when i turned 21. it felt like life was over.
<crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, that's one of the disadvantages of using C, too. Often you find yourself spending more time creating structure than you do actually resolving the original task.
<cbx33> LaserJock, not thinking about learning C are you :p
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: you interested in starting a UK Edubuntu group
<highvoltage> also, C allows you to mess things up easier.
<bddebian> w00t, go LaserJock! :_)
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, yeh totally
<highvoltage> just look at gcompris for instance. it will suddenly do weird things and use *huge* ammountes of memory for nothing.
<LaserJock> cbx33: well, I think I need to know some C regardless of what I do. I keep running into it no matter how hard I try to avoid it ;-)
<RobinShepheard> Figured it maybe easier for us as we are fairly local to each other
<cbx33> yes highvoltage I've noticed that too
<highvoltage> writing something like that in python would make it more difficult to mess up.
<cbx33> highvoltage, but may make perfomance an issue
<RobinShepheard> you are not responsible for the memory management, a big plus with python, perl etc
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: *nods*
<RobinShepheard> probably the reason java is popular
<RobinShepheard> well ish
<highvoltage> cbx33: when you start swapping to disk on an LTSP server becuase your memory is running out, then you'll also have performance issues ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> true
<RobinShepheard> has anyone used the jit type compliler for python??
<RobinShepheard> is it psyco??
<mhz> highvoltage: however, in the meantime, I'd suggest this page includes links to 'where to go for help' --> http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<sbartleylinux> ogra: Have you had any time to look into printing off the back of a thin client?
<mhz> highvoltage: "If you think you can help, why not join up to your local team?"
<highvoltage> mhz: good idea, adding to to-do list
<sbartleylinux> has anyone here experienced a dbus session error, generated by gnome-power-manager, when using freenx to connect to a dapper system
<cbx33> highvoltage, you ready to disss website now
<cbx33> disss=discuss DAMN THIS KEYBOARD
<cbx33> sorry.....
<cbx33> dapper has screwed up my keyboard aI don;t know why
<highvoltage> cbx33: heh.
<cbx33> aI = and I
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, we can diss the website now. I THINK IT SUX!
<highvoltage> :P
<cbx33> just let me make my wife a coffee and I'll be right with you
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> i was originally going to say 'lucky you' (read that as 'just let my wife make me some coffee and i'll be right back with you')
<LaserJock> lol
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: I wish I could type that :)
<honey> hey there, I have edubuntu 5.10, what command do I use to upgrade to 6.06?
<mhz> highvoltage: lol
<mhz> "master of puppets"
<mhz> or "master and servants"
<honey> so, I type "master of puppets" at the prompt?
<highvoltage> honey: just a sec, i'll get you a link...
<honey> :) jk
<bddebian> Master of Puppets!! Great song
<honey> highvoltage, tx!
<highvoltage> honey: on http://www.edubuntu.org/news/5 there's a heading ' Upgrade information for Edubuntu 5.10 ("Breezy Badger") users'
<highvoltage> honey: that should do it
<honey> thanks highvoltage
<cbx33> I'm back
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: must have been instant then :0
<cbx33> isn't it 
<cbx33> sudo update-manager -d
<highvoltage> the cbx33ernator
<cbx33> now y'all stop poking fun
<highvoltage> "i'll be baack"
<cbx33> or with my keyboard
<cbx33> I'll be bk
<RobinShepheard> lol
<highvoltage> cbx33: what i'd like to do is, create a page on our website for every piece of software we ship with edubuntu
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: have you try changing the delay in prefs -> keyboard?
<highvoltage> it's a lot of work, and it will require maintenance with new releases
<cbx33> highvoltage, sounds like a greaidea though
<cbx33> greaidea = great idea
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, i don't think thats the issue
<highvoltage> but we get lots of searches on the site for 'gcompris', etc... and it would be nice to explain these in more details, possibly having a 'quick start' guide to each app on those pages as well
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: could you create a script to run through a directory list to produce the page
<mhz> highvoltage: +1 but when you say "our site" you mean wiki or drupal?
<highvoltage> since, to be honest, i don't know how to use many of those apps myself
<cbx33> drupal
<mhz> oh
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: i'm not sure what you mean?
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, probably not appropriate here
<cbx33> it's a lot of manual wor
<cbx33> work
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, they can even start off as wiki pages, if you would like it to be that, but we'd like it to live in the drupal website eventually
<highvoltage> it is.
<honey> highvoltage, sorry to bother you again, do I follow those instructions even though I'm not using LTSP?
<highvoltage> but i think it would have a great end-result
<RobinShepheard> well you could create the basic list by creating a script which would basically do a dir of the repository and create titles of software from packages
<highvoltage> honey: you should be fine if you just leave out the ltsp parts (the parts that mentions chroot'ing, etc)
<honey> ok, thanks :)
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: that's a good idea
<cbx33> honey, you'll be fine
<mhz> highvoltage: sure, it is jsut that Igor Tamara (aka, ikks) is a python and moin colombian guy. He'll be helping me with edubuntu and FET stuff.
<mhz> jsut = just
<RobinShepheard> and possibly bulk out the data by pulling it out of the package info
<mhz> highvoltage: I remember I put my hands in EdubuntuSoftwareList while ago
<mhz> and for many reasons, I just quit keeping such page.
<mhz> I even started translations for it, but honestly, it kills my enthusiasm to do things twice, so I started in English, finished 1st part, then I realized it ws needed in spanish... and then I just lost my nerve :D
<mhz> however, I do believe they need to be treated as individual wiki pages. My oriignal idea was to implement [[Include] ]  macro
<cbx33> highvoltage, sounds like a great idea
<RobinShepheard> daft question, what is the time in UTC
<mhz> so they all were converged in just one wiki page
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, for you 18:00
<cbx33> or there abouts
<RobinShepheard> did think so
<cbx33> we could take the bits from the old ESA
<mhz> RobinShepheard: for me, 20 UTC is 16:00 hours (Chilean time)
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, the ESA actually provides a good base.
<cbx33> because we did short descriptions for each application
<cbx33> which were cut down on the finished product
<cbx33> but if you delve into the get info of the wiki esa
<cbx33> you'll find a lot more info
<highvoltage> i think i'll do one on firefox, as an example.
<cbx33> highvoltage, cool
<RobinShepheard> I am willing to help with typing descriptions up for various packages in english
<mhz> +1
<cbx33> you know, this could help a lot with the edubuntu book
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, excellent
<highvoltage> will do it this weekend, and then we can make a list of all the apps we want to cover (which would be all of them, ideally).
<cbx33> nice one highvoltage 
<cbx33> I'll help out with that
<highvoltage> yep, i think we can do about two-three pages per app.
<cbx33> define a page, on a website :p
<highvoltage> screenshots, description, quick start, tips and tricks, optimisation and troubleshooting...
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: count me in on the project if I can help
<highvoltage> lots you can write about each app that would be helpful for a user
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: excellent :)
<highvoltage> i intend to involve the whole edubuntu-website team on this. it's something that many people can contribute to.
<cbx33> highvoltage, seriously though, this could provide good base for the edubuntu book I was thinking of
<highvoltage> nice.
* HedgeMage peeks in
<cbx33> hi HedgeMage 
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: I will lend a hand with that if you need it
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, excellent, pygi and HedgeMage worked on that last cookbook
<HedgeMage> just to be sure that I remember how time zones work, the meeting is in approx 2 hours, correct?
<cbx33> I think the plan is that the next one will   BIGGER
<cbx33> HedgeMage, true
<HedgeMage> cbx33: cool
<highvoltage> hey hedgy
<HedgeMage> btw, great timing... my laptop died last night, so I only have the office computer... I'll be mostly not-here until the meeting starts, as there's a limited amount of time TT will stay entertained in the office, and I plan to save it for the meeting :)
<lucasvo> *lol* I read edgy
<highvoltage> TT?
<lucasvo> how do you like the new ./ desigN?
<mhz> highvoltage: plus, if possible, add end-users feedback and teachers use of each app.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: TT == Toddling Tornado   (aka my 3yo son)
<highvoltage> mhz: ok
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: :)
<highvoltage> wow, for last 7 days, edubuntu is #25 on distrowatch
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> we're going up up up
<RobinShepheard> serious
<lucasvo> cool!
<lucasvo> also our IRC channel is getting more crowded everyday
<bddebian> highvoltage: Nice
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: as in distrowatch.com ????
<lucasvo> RobinShepheard: yes
<highvoltage> yep. xubuntu is also doing nicely. it only released a week ago and is on number 5 for last 7 days.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: cool
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: yes: http://distrowatch.com/index.php?dataspan=1
<cbx33> Ubuntu is wwwaaaayyyy up there
<RobinShepheard> I got it, need to get my glasses changed, couldn't see it for looking, had to search
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: no kidding it only has 13 times the number of hit as Edubuntu
<lucasvo> cbx33: well that's not bad, is it?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> not at all
<Burgwork> cbx33, there is almost an order of magnitude between 1 and 2, eh?
<cbx33> heheh
<RobinShepheard> shows how much difference a new release made as it has gone from 45 over 30 days to 25 in the last 7
<highvoltage> skolelinux and k12-ltsp doesn't even make the top100 :/
<lucasvo> highvoltage: is k12-ltsp still in development?
<lucasvo> uh, it's redhat based
<lucasvo> :(
<RobinShepheard> I have to scoot, I have the local linux user group to go to and maybe even get them to donate towards a stand a BETT2007 :)
<highvoltage> lucasvo: yes, it is. it's now based on Fedora Core
<highvoltage> we used to use it in tuxlabs.
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, 
<lucasvo> well that still sucks
<cbx33> did you get my msage
<cbx33> we can't do that until we get approval from canonical
<lucasvo> it should be discontinued and all the work should be on edubuntu
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: no not yet
<cbx33> but please spread the word
<lucasvo> everybody would profit
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: where did you send the mesasge
<cbx33> on IRC
<lucasvo> cbx33: you mean, we are not allowed to change the edubuntu.org page without canonical's approval
<cbx33> no
<lucasvo> cbx33: are you identified?
<highvoltage> cbx33: what are you looking at doing?
<cbx33> <RobinShepheard> I have to scoot, I have the local linux user group to go to and maybe even get them to donate towards a stand a BETT2007 :)
<lucasvo> cbx33: write silbs a mail
<RobinShepheard> ahh I was having loads of probs with the internet connectioon at work earlier
<HedgeMage> what can't we do until we get the okay from canonical?
<cbx33> we can't gather funds for BETT2007 till it has been approved
* HedgeMage is lost
<highvoltage> $ locate HedgeMage
<RobinShepheard> I was only going to get them to agree to stump up some cash if need be
<highvoltage> /lost+found/HedgeMadge
<cbx33> RobinShepheard, excellent
<cbx33> go right ahead :p
<RobinShepheard> if I could
<RobinShepheard> and if they will
<dan_young> lucasvo: K12LTSP has a vibrant user community; a Fedora-based LTSP implementation provides some nice coopetition. ;-)
* RobinShepheard waves good bye to everyone
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: still here
<HedgeMage> :P
<lucasvo> dan_young: why shouldn't the community become part of the edubuntu community
<dan_young> lucasvo: some people (gasp) prefer Fedora to Ubuntu. I personally use and enjoy both. It's not a zero-sum game and there is significant cross-pollination w/ K12LTSP/Edubuntu.
<lucasvo> dan_young: with a merge, one could save a lot of work being done twice
<lucasvo> dan_young: hm, that is true
<dan_young> There is probably a ton of duplication of effort globally W.R.T. open-source, but great things happen anyways. Look at the plethora of desktop environments. Should Kubuntu and Xubuntu be dropped to unify under a GNOME Ubuntu? Probably not...
<ogra> lucasvo, the initial idea for edubuntu came from the founder of k12ltsp ... its very sane to have both distros involved and provide choice for users
<dan_young> ogra: Yeah, he's my boss. ;-)
<highvoltage> dan_young: isn't coopetition a microsoft invented word? :)
<lucasvo> dan_young: well, Kubuntu should be dropped
<lucasvo> dan_young: xubuntu has an entire different target
<ogra> dan_young, so when do you guys start with MueKow ?
<dan_young> highvoltage: dunno, but its sounded good, eh?
<lucasvo> dan_young: muekow is already a step forward
<lucasvo> (to not doing duplicate work)
<dan_young> ogra: I think he wants to get the FC5 release out the door and shoot for FC6...
<ogra> ah, cool
<ogra> debian did a lot of work on our packages, seems gentoo considers porting them directly 
<dan_young> ogra: need to look into the "mock" tool for doing the build roots; off to lunch, catch up in a bit....
<highvoltage> FC's release cycle is just hectic. it was one of the biggest problems we had with it.
<ogra> highvoltage, weekly ? 
<spacey> =)
<pygi> hey all
<spacey> hi hi
<highvoltage> ogra: probably as often as ubuntu, the problem with FC is, as soon as a new one is released, the previous version becomes obsolete and unsupported
<highvoltage> ogra: at least you get 18 months on ubuntu
<highvoltage> (and the 3 years on LTS is great too)
<ogra> yeah
<Burgwork> highvoltage, and upgrades are very painful
<highvoltage> *very*
<lucasvo> I think the LTS buisiness is a good idea
<highvoltage> at least, it was between RH9 and FC1 and from FC1 to FC2. We skipped FC3, and before FC4 were released, we switched to ubuntu.
<Burgwork> apparently FC4+ is ok now
<lucasvo> I think ubuntu should adopt the pane scheme from SUSE
<Burgwork> pane
<Burgwork> ?
<lucasvo> +l
<lucasvo> I mean panels
<Burgwork> oh, the single panel one?
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> I love it
<highvoltage> we use a single panel in tuxlabs, which is similar to the SUSE one
<Burgwork> you love it is not a good reason
<Burgwork> personally, I am excited to see gimmee and what it can do for gnome panels
<highvoltage> gimmee?
<Amaranth> lucasvo: you mean SLED 10?
<Amaranth> highvoltage: object oriented desktop or some such thing
<Burgwork> http://www.beatniksoftware.com/gimmie/index.html
<lucasvo> Amaranth: I don't know, the one which is on osdir
<lucasvo> Burgwork: yeah, that is true
<lucasvo> It uses less space
<Amaranth> lucasvo: if it's on osdir it's probably not SLED 10
<Amaranth> i like my two panels
<lucasvo> Amaranth: in that case it's opensuse
<Amaranth> i always have too much stuff to fit on one panel
<lucasvo> Amaranth: the typical user hasn't
<lucasvo> Amaranth: if you have to much stuff you probably added it manually
<Amaranth> and two panels gives you full corner quick access
<pygi> HedgeMage, poke
<Amaranth> so, i've got a small proxy that handles GETs working...
<Burgwork> gimmie plus a top panel is the best, I think
<Amaranth> Burgwork: sounds like OS X
<ogra> bah, we mutate to OSX ?
<ogra> heh
<Burgwork> Amaranth, like the dock, but better
<Amaranth> the dock is horrible, please don't try to make a "better dock"
<pygi> ogra, is meeting in 20 minutes?
<Amaranth> pygi: SoC meeting is
<cbx33> pygi, 1hr 20
<Amaranth> 16 minutes, to be exact
<pygi> cbx33, ah, oki, thanks :)
<ogra> pygi, 20:00 UTC :)
<pygi> it writes ETC on that page of fridge :P
<Burgwork> Amaranth, just look at it
<pygi> thanks anyway, talk to you all later then ;)
<lucasvo> Amaranth: to continue my sentence since I got distracted. ... and if you added it manually, you would have added a panel if needed as well. Most peope don't change the panel
<Burgwork> Amaranth, you meeting in here or in #ubuntu-meeting?
<HedgeMage> pygi: here, but only for a moment
<ogra> Burgwork, we'll do it in PM i think
<Burgwork> ah, ok
<ogra> or is there a need for publicity ? 
<ogra> we can do it in #ubuntu-willow or something if thats needed
<Burgwork> ogra, well, I was hoping I could get anselmo is be there, but I don
<Burgwork> t think he is available
<Burgwork> ogra, so, do it in PM, anselmo's stuff only needs to know how to hook into it
<ogra> oh, right, i forgot about epiphany 
<lucasvo> I don't know epiphany
<lucasvo> I don't like the idea of creating another browser
<lucasvo> well apperantly somebody already did it
<ogra> well, we'll likely switch to it in edgy
<lucasvo> I began to try it out for a couple of days
<lucasvo> but I miss the extensions
<HedgeMage> th1a: ping!
<lucasvo> and a lot people switching from windows already know Firefox
<lucasvo> ogra: why that?
<lucasvo> because it's gnome?
<th1a> HedgeMage: Hi.
<HedgeMage> th1a: hey there... I'm more coherent now.  Slept off the allergy attack :)
<Burgwork> lucasvo, uhh, Firefox has less name recognition than people realize and most users simply don't car
<Burgwork> e
<ogra> lucasvo, its way smaller since it has no own langpacks, its needed for gnomes kiosk mode its better integrated
<Burgwork> they would rather have the tight integration into gnome than a name
<ogra> etc etc
<lucasvo> well, why not develop a tight integration in gnome for firefox?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, that is more work and upstream doesn't really care
<Burgwork> firefox and epiphany share the same rendering enginge
<lucasvo> Burgwork: well I think a lot of people do care
<Burgwork> yes, they want a browser that works. Epiphany is that browser
<lucasvo> Burgwork: there are lots of extensions who can't be used
<th1a> HedgeMage: I've gotten some good ideas since last night about how to get this process going.
<lucasvo> what about adblock?
<Burgwork> most users never use extensions
<lucasvo> Burgwork: you think?
<Burgwork> most users never use a single plugin of any kind
<Burgwork> it is the biggest failure of plugins
<HedgeMage> th1a: I'm interested, fill me in :)
<lucasvo> Burgwork: I do, so I will use Firefox
<th1a> HedgeMage: Now that I've been writing a little code (finally) I'm getting to know the protocol a bit better.
<th1a> HedgeMage: And if we assume that we're starting with a ZIS that only shares data on a secure localhost, and set some other reasonable limitations,
<th1a> we can have a very simple ZIS that is simple enough to write quickly and simply and do useful things.
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: how is that a failure? do we really need bloatware that comes with every feature imaginable (not that firefox isn't big, but with less stuff seperated off as extensions, it would be bigger)
<HedgeMage> th1a: what language are you leaning toward, and what kind of time frame are you looking at?
<th1a> HedgeMage: Python, although definitely avoiding scary frameworks (Twisted, Zope 3, etc.).
<th1a> We could support a useful subset of the protocol quickly, I think, a few months work.
<th1a> Now, it might not do a lot of things you'd want in a real ZIS operating over an intranet (encryption, authentication, etc.),
<th1a> but you could skip if you're only passing data around the localhost, which would still be useful.
<Amaranth> ogra: where are we doing the SoC thing?
<th1a> Essentially, you're just writing an XML router.
<Amaranth> actually, it looks like all the people might not be here...
<HedgeMage> th1a: interesting
<ogra> Amaranth, in PM, wait a second until i'm done in -devel
<Amaranth> ok
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, I would not classify epiphany as bloatware. It is a not a black and white thing. I think FF tries to be too minimal
<Burgwork> lucasvo, again, those of us in this IRC channel are not the target audience for Edubuntu
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: I haven't used epiphany, so I really can't make an educated comment...
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, fair enough
<ogra> Burgwork, i am !
<th1a> HedgeMage: If you've looked at the whole SIF spec, it is intimidating, but I think we can cut it down to managable chunks.
<lucasvo> Burgwork: yeah
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: and I don't think anyone's saying not to package ff for ubuntu
<ogra> Burgwork, i use what i build :)
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: they're just talking defaults
* Burgwork has still never yet installed Edubuntu
<lucasvo> Burgwork: but the target audience was using FF before switching to ubuntu
<Burgwork> lucasvo, no, they were not
<lucasvo> Burgwork: you sure?
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: and, it's probably safe to say that iff you are on the internet enough to care what extensions you have, you have access to apt-get install firefox
<lucasvo> I was
<Burgwork> lucasvo, remember, I sell Linux-based comptuers to libraries
<lucasvo> my sister was
<ogra> lucasvo, well, the target audience was likely using IE
<Burgwork> I have a fair idea of what is out there and FF ain't it
<lucasvo> ogra: In almost every school I know they have FF, IE, Safari
<Burgwork> it hasn't penetrated teh big IT silos of education yet
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: depends on where... A lot of the areas I'd target are big FF and Oo.o users on windows, and having those apps by default is a big thing.  However, I don't think it's neccessarily true of the planet as a whole
<Burgwork> anyway, browser is not going to make or break a deal
<Burgwork> people are care more about how it can solve their issues than the technology that solves them
<ogra> surely not if it sanitizes the CD size
<Burgwork> trust me
<Burgwork> epiphany does wonderful things for our cd size, yes
<highvoltage> i once heard an interesting story from a K12-LTSP school.
<ogra> especially since we can drop the ugly ff langpacks :)
<highvoltage> in their district, the only requirement for computer classes was that the schools in the disctrict must run IE
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: ugh
<highvoltage> the inspectors looked that the K12LTSP lab ans was very unimpressed, and insisted that they install windows to get IE.
<highvoltage> so..
<Burgwork> ogra, what kind of size are we looking at?
<highvoltage> the administrator of tha lab installed an IE theme for Mozilla, and created a shortcut to it from the desktop that had the IE logo, and it said Internet Explorer
<highvoltage> the inspectors looked at it, visited the local education site, and it worked, so they said it was fine :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: roflmao
<ogra> Burgwork, epi is 2M big
<HedgeMage> people can be SO ignorant!
<HedgeMage> brb
<Burgwork> ogra, ah, cool
<ogra> Burgwork, no idea what ff + llangpacks dropping gains us, but it will be a lot
<highvoltage> they later made a script so that other schools in the district could easily do the same. strange world we live in :)
<Burgwork> ogra, now if we only drop OO.o
<ogra> never :)
<Burgwork> highvoltage,  we have an IE-mode on the toolbar of the epiphnay we ship
<highvoltage> Burgwork: ok, i thought you shipped firefox. cool.
<Amaranth> goofy wireless
<lucasvo> ogra: and what about gnumeric?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, doesn't do ODF well enough yet
<ogra> lucasvo, what about gnumeric ? its a nice app ...
<highvoltage> problem is, OOo is covered by ICDL (and OpenICDL) where Gnumeric and Abiword isn't.
<lucasvo> ICDL?
<highvoltage> for training purposes, you have to have OOo.
<highvoltage> lucasvo: International Computers Drivers' License
<highvoltage> it's like a standard in computer literacy
<lucasvo> one thing about epiphany I HATE, is that it doesn't resize the width of the tabs in the tabbar
<lucasvo> is there a setting to change this?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, not currently
<lucasvo> Burgwork: is it going to be implemented?
<Burgwork> lucasvo, no idea, ask the epiphany devs
<Burgwork> they have done amazing things with few people
<lucasvo> Burgwork: yeah they copied the gecko :P
<lucasvo> just kidding
<lucasvo> this is the best thing about the browser :)
<lucasvo> is that correct syntax for lts.conf: [DEFAULT] 
<lucasvo> HorizSync = 30-60
<lucasvo> VertRefresh = 50-75
<lucasvo> ?
<dan_young> lucasvo: should be X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH
<lucasvo> but I don't need the " "?
<dan_young> lucasvo: I think you need to quote the arguements like this:X_HORZSYNC =  "31.5 - 91.1"
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> thanks
<lucasvo> anybody saw the movie elephant's dream?
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: nope, haven't had time to check it out
<HedgeMage> lucasvo: heeard it turned out very well, though
<lucasvo> is that still up to date for dapper: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams?action=show&redirect=EdubuntuLtsParams
<ogra> its for breezy
<ogra> as the line of text at the top states :)
<lucasvo> ogra: is there a way to set the screen resolution in dapper?
<ogra> but we had no regressions,, so all parameters that worked there work in dapper as well
<ogra> yes, by setting X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH :)
<lucasvo> what are typical values for 15" tft?
<spacey> for TFT is doesn't really matter does it
* mhz only has 10 inches monitor :)
<lucasvo> spacey: it could be to high
<spacey> mine says it is 60hz
<lucasvo> spacey: thanks
<spacey> i forgot what i put in lts.conf for our tft's
<spacey> lucasvo: i mean on my laptop :p
<spacey> hold on
<spacey>         X_MODE_0 = 1280x1024
<spacey>         X_HORZSYNC = "60-70"
<HedgeMage> I'll be back in time for the meeting, ATM tt needs me
* HedgeMage waves
<spacey> thats only thing we specified
<highvoltage> spacey: X_MODE_0 isn't being used anymore (says ogra)
<spacey> ltsp classic btw, not sure if its the same for ubuntu ltsp
<spacey> :o
<spacey> i'm tainting the channel again ;(
<spacey> highvoltage: anyway for ltsp.org 4.2 it does something, since else it only does 1024x768
<ogra> its not possible to preseed xmode in our xserver, it would break the autoconfiguration
<ogra> but setting X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH usually offers you the right modes
<highvoltage> yep, X_MODE_0 still works on ltsp classic
<spacey> ltsp.org detection is _really_ crappy
<highvoltage> it is quite.
<spacey>         X_VIDEORAM = 16384
<spacey>         XSERVER = via
<spacey>         X_MODE_0 = 1280x1024
<spacey>         X_HORZSYNC = "60-70"
<spacey> for 1 client:)
<spacey> else it doesn't work properly
<lucasvo> ok, now the only prob I still have, when I strat the Thinclient, all works fine, but as soon as X started up and you see the mouse, it puts you to tty0
<lucasvo> the xserver ist still running
<mhz> hmm, anyone heard of this: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longmeng
<mhz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longmeng
<mhz> :D
<lucasvo> well if 1billion chinese would use it, linux would win a lot of market share :P
<bddebian> heh
<lucasvo> only facts ;)
<Burgwork> the only issue with OLPC is the fact that you are exposing hundeds of thounsands of children to the horrors of RPM hell
<lucasvo> exactly
<lucasvo> when there would be .deb heaven
<highvoltage> yay! a .deb vs .rpm flamewar already! :)
<lucasvo> I am not in a flamewar mood
<lucasvo> and the channel op are a little not neutrol
<lucasvo> it's not an appopriate battlefield
<highvoltage> heh.
* lucasvo has to learn english onomatopes
<lucasvo> or whatever they're called
<Burgwork> lucasvo, highvoltage and I can have a wheel war!
<lucasvo> wheel?
<Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wheel_war
<Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_war
<cbx33>  love wheel wars
<lucasvo> sounds like fun
<ogra> *** Reminder (even i'm late) Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ****
* highvoltage presses badge on chest *ENERGISE!*
<highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu
<mhz> "and that is it for tonight's Edubuntu Meeting, folks!"
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> :)
<HedgeMage> :D
<crimsun> 'night ogra 
<mhz> HedgeMage: congrats!
<mhz> pygi: congrats!
<HedgeMage> Thanks, mhz :D
* cbx33 is feeling so dwarfed
<cbx33> you guys all rock
<jsgotangco> because?
* HedgeMage does a happy dance with pygi 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: why on earth?
<mhz> cbx33: I dont rock, I reggae :D
<pygi> thanks mhz ;)
<lucasvo> mhz: yeah, me too
<jsgotangco> cbx33: try attending a devel summit you'll feel very very small on yuor first day
* cbx33 hopes to one day
<mhz> lucasvo: well, to be totaly honest, it is not that I actually do it, it is more than I see the girl in front of me doing her dancing while I think about the things schools may use in their labs and how to convince teachers to just join Edubuntu once and for all and start getting contents to it so we can package it :D
<mhz> jsgotangco: you small?
<mhz> how many times?
* lucasvo stil is in school
<mhz> lucasvo: so, you may get betta chance to get to your techas
<jsgotangco> mhz: you will feel very small when you get to talk to mdz in person for the first time
<lucasvo> mhz: not really
<mhz> jsgotangco: because he's too tall? too much of a great hacker?
<mhz> or just because I am too short
<mdz> I'm only about 145cm in fact, so I guess it must be my commanding presence
<mhz> jsgotangco: wait!
<mhz> I know
<jsgotangco> i said "feel" not "i am short"
<mhz> jsgotangco: the 3 of them
<jsgotangco> mhz: i am only 5'4" but that's racial in nature
<mhz> hmm, I count in mt or cm
<mhz> I am 1 mt 67 cm
<mhz> jsgotangco: well, I hope I can talk to mdz once :)
<mhz> Maybe if FET Libre 2006 is good, Mark will consider next Edubuntu meeting to take place in Chile :)
<mhz> at least, edubuntu is the # distro for all the organization's PCs
<mhz> #1
<pygi> ogra, sorry about big "two liner" :P
<ogra> heh, its fine 
<ogra> as long as we are that small still we have all freedom we want 
<mhz> pygi: at least they were not 4 lines ! :D
<ogra> i guess it will look different in 1 year
* mhz crosses fingers
<pygi> ogra, I do hope :)
<pygi> I do really hope to get involved in LTSP stuff more so I could be more of help on that front
<ogra> looking at the current debian code i hope the same, belive me ...
<ogra> merging that will take a lot of work *sigh* 
<pygi> ogra, no worries, I can help with coding and fixing bugs even if I am not MOTU, so ...
<ogra> and they didnt develop their new modularization feature in a separate branch, fun
<pygi> joy :-/
<ogra> well, currenly i have a tree with 189 commits of which i want probably 70 ...
<ogra> not that these 70 would be in a row ...
<pygi> are you the only one currently working on LTSP?
<ogra> or even be based on anything we have in our package 
<ogra> well, i used to be upstream ... but debian had the idea to take over upstream :(
<pygi> oh :(
<ogra> so they just randomly merged everything they found out there in the wild into their branch
<pygi> ugh, thats not really good :-/
<ogra> there are great improvements, but its a pain to pick them if you dont want the whole
<pygi> agreed, can you gimme url of their repository so I could take a look at it?
<ogra> eun is if they merge with my tree in the middle of their feature development process ...
<ogra> s/eun/fun
<ogra> pygi, http://pkg-ltsp.alioth.debian.org/bzr/main/
<pygi> sorry, gotta run now and thanks
<cbx33> ogra, what do we have for scp at the mo
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys!
<paolob-parroquia> After the dapper upgrade the ltsp freezes, sometimes once a hour, without a fixed time or interval, and independently from working on the server or not. Any idea what is that?
<skipster23> i have this computer were the bios doesn't support cd booting is there somthing i can do to boot edubuntu 6.06
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> back in the day I used to use boot floppies for that sort of thing skipster23 
<dan_young> skipster23: the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/Netboot) has info on netbooting for installation...
<Amaranth> i dunno how to make those anymore :P
<skipster23> ya but im new to linux and i can't just use one of these old DOS disks laying around
<skipster23> dan_young: Its my friend computer and she doesn't have the net right yet
<dan_young> skipster23: basically, it's going to suck and be difficult to do w/o CD-booting; bummer, dude....
<dan_young> might check out this also...
<dan_young> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/FromHardDriveWithFloppies
<skipster23> i'll ceck it out thanks
<pygi> sorry ogra, somebody reported a server problem, had to check it out
<pygi> thanks for the bzr repo url, I'll be sure to check it out tommorow
<Amaranth> ogra: I, uh, have HTTPS working. :)
<Amaranth> ogra: don't think it'll work with a transparent setup though
#edubuntu 2006-06-08
<pygi> Amaranth, doing implementation? :)
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> i actually didn't do anything to make https work, it just did :)
<pygi> great ;)
<pygi> Now if only all would just work :P
<Amaranth> whee
<Amaranth> my bank works and logging into ubuntuforums works
<Amaranth> now to make my bank a 'bad' site :)
<Burgwork> Amaranth, http://www.firefoxflicks.com/flick/index.php?sort=pop&id=19542&c=false
<Burgwork> Amaranth, you already have that much up for the the proxy?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> it's not hard
<Amaranth> the hard stuff is non-compiant servers and corner cases
<Amaranth> non-compliant
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> you planning to implement the PICS stuff?
<Amaranth> maybe
<Amaranth> if i have time
<Burgwork> it can be done later
<Amaranth> it's not a main priority though
<Burgwork> PICS is a joke, tbh
<Amaranth> hmm, Kipina seems to be a common package installed on systems that get and error running alacarte
* Amaranth thinks someone made a b0rked package
<Amaranth> nope, wrong again
<Amaranth> :/
<bddebian> Heya folks
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<bddebian> Hello Lord_Athur
<Lord_Athur> hi bddebian  , I've got a new keyborad, it's connected to the computer with my usb card, but grub doesn't detect it, what can i do?
<Burgwork> Lord_Athur, It is likely yoru bios, not grub
<Lord_Athur> but i can get inside the bios options with this keyboard
<Burgwork> hmm, that is odd
<Burgwork> the best solution I have for you is to go back to your other keyboard
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<Lord_Athur> I spent much money on it- not very much but could have gotten a good book with it-
<Lord_Athur> Burgwork, Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0a81:0101 Chesen Electronics Corp. Keyboard
<Burgwork> it is likely that Ubuntu will work once booted, but grub might be an issue
<Burgwork> file a bug too
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Amaranth> crap i broke https
<Amaranth> heh, goofy bug
* arkan0x is away: .....zzz...b
* jsgotangco yawns
<mhz> jsgotangco: cover your mouth
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> jsgotangco: NL will be out when?
<jsgotangco> mhz: we're consolidating with the ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu probably this weekend
<jsgotangco> edgy just opened so its news
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: colidating?
<mhz> jsgotangco: next week's NL could I include a mini article about the Rrle of Edubuntu and its potential/base for a variation to consolidate for Latinamerican schools?
<mhz> rolr
<mhz> rolrrole
<mhz> duh!!!
<mhz> r o l e
<jsgotangco> if you could provide a link, we'll include it
<jsgotangco> mhz: well i woke up around 4am for the meeting then slept 1 1/2 hours more before going to work
<mhz> jsgotangco: i ask because it will be related to FET, too. One of FET Libre 2006 objectives is to promote Edubuntu in LA
<mhz> jsgotangco: ooh, yeah, I remember you were at a corner
<jsgotangco> sounds cool, when would you be able to finish it?
<mhz> I will start it on Sunday, while my daughter sleeps and my wife snores :D
* mhz already got the posters... real big size of paper
<mhz> poster size :D
<mhz> and just finihsed the desging for t-shirt
* mhz corrects: ex-wife
<jsgotangco> mm i always get a heartwarming feeling whenever i start my kubuntu station and i get a segfault :/
<mhz> lol
<mhz> I had to make a difficult decision while ago (5 months) for this thin laptop: Either I kept just 1 heavy desktop and many lighter ones, OR I would kill have to live with slowliness (considering I have to use lots of OOO. 
<mhz> so, I have never used KDE since then
<mhz> only GNOME once a week, to see what's new and NO OOO in parallel
<mhz> and the rest of the fays, from Fluxbox, to Wmaker to Xubuntu
<mhz> days
<jsgotangco> i would understand you, XFCE is fast
<jsgotangco> especially thunar
<mhz> yeah
<mhz> lovely thunar
* mhz wants to try out nomed's development of his aoutmounter
<mhz> 'basilico' i guess it is called
<mhz> well, Daniele Favara is coming to FET
<mhz> and so is the guy from Bolivia, the one who needs dvd but has no web connection
<Burgundavia> mhz: have you tried dapper on that thing? it is much much lighter
<mhz> that i amusing
<mhz> that I am using
<mhz> :D
<Burgundavia> my desktop machine went from 230+ mb on a cold boot to 130+
<mhz> Burgundavia: much faster, less battery (default settings)
<Burgundavia> you mean you get less battery life?
<mhz> yeah
<mhz> i mean
<Burgundavia> I get crap battery life in general
<Burgundavia> nice to create a spec about battery life
<mhz> I unplug it and it lasts less, using same desktop, compared to breezy
<mhz> lol
<Burgundavia> I will create a spec now
<mhz> thx
<mhz> +1
<mhz> though, I can't wait to see Edubuntu on PDA's
<mhz> more especifically, in ARMs
<mhz> anyways, those are not needed specs right now, so I close the idea ;)
<mhz> BTW, since I got back here, I unplugged the AC and now I get 2 more mins. of battery
<mhz> while, I used to have at least 80 minutes with breezy
<Burgundavia> mhz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReducedPowerUsage
<Burgundavia> fyi, the 2nd use case is my fathers, when he worked in the Seychelles
<mhz> Burgundavia: thx.. I'll plug back the AC and will tab it
<CuriousG> I have a problem with the hibernate option when exiting from a thin client
<CuriousG> It appears to hibernate the whole server so it shuts it off
<CuriousG> I assume that isn't supposed to happen.
* arkan0x is back (gone 02:05:03)
<bimberi> CuriousG: is this for a privileged user (ie. sudo access) or anyone?
* mhz tabs in Epiphany
<mhz> Burgundavia: you use/like Moin?
<Burgundavia> mhz: yes and no
<mhz> Burgundavia: lol
<mhz> Burgundavia and guys, just to show off more Moin power:
<mhz> Java and Moin: http://www.slec.net/AmbientesVirtualesdeAprendizaje
<mhz> Mind Maps, very needed by schools
<bimberi> "a plane from Cape Town to South Africa" ?
<Burgundavia> bimberi: right, that would be my bad
<bimberi> Burgundavia: kk, pedantry over :P
<Burgundavia> bimberi: no worries, I fixed it
<mhz> Burgundavia: and Moin and Latex and GNUPLOT, http://www.slec.net/ExtensionesMoinSlec
* HedgeMage peeks in
<mhz> HedgeMage: sure!
<mhz> edubuntu needs edu-contents ;)
<LaserJock> woah, did somebody say gnuplot?!
<mhz> LaserJock: yup
<mhz> that was an example of Moin and Gnuplot
<mhz> Moin rocks
<mhz> it is just that you need to learn to love it
<Burgundavia> mhz: moin has serious issues
<LaserJock> gnuplot rocks, I'm not so sure about Moin ;-) j/k
<LaserJock> wow, that is very cool though, my boss would flip if he saw that
<mhz> LaserJock: it can do lots more, if you let it so.
<HedgeMage> brb mommy duty
<mhz> Burgundavia: serious?
<mhz> HedgeMage: TT?
<Burgundavia> mhz: moin sucks for teams which do not already have a method of community. It sucks for presentation docs.
<mhz> Burgundavia: oh, I see. You mean you have even seen the Moin SlideShow plugin with my CSS?
<Burgundavia> that might be nice, can we get it on the help wiki?
<mhz> sure!
<Burgundavia> it doesn't solve the issue that moin sucks for communication
<mhz> Burgundavia: well, yeah. If you have a team with no clear communication policies, it may not be the best choice
<Burgundavia> which makes it bad for docs, because you tend to get lots of people helping out at random
<mhz> Burgundavia: now I see why you say that
<Burgundavia> look at wikipedia
<LaserJock> does mediawiki make that easier? and how?
<Burgundavia> there is a clear discussion page with every doc
* LaserJock shuts up
<mhz> Burgundavia: it is the approach that is different
<Burgundavia> yep
<mhz> Moin has been built upon the concept of "build it as you wish"
<Burgundavia> moin is great for developers, not for users
<mhz> Mediawiki was built upon the concept of we give you all this, you get the rest if you can
<mhz> :)
<Burgundavia> mediawiki is built to create a community and have presentation docs, moin is not
<mhz> yup
<mhz> " we give you all this"
<mhz> Burgundavia: maybe you have seen this idea. This is good for Help pages, for example.
<mhz> http://mhz.homelinux.org/somework/EmacsCommands
<mhz> and then select MoreAction -> SlideShow
<mhz> and go to at least Slide #5 to see it working
<Burgundavia> shiny, but too hard to get into
<Burgundavia> I want a slideshow on a page by default
<mhz> no problem!
<mhz> I can do that too :D
<mhz> Burgundavia: I can easily make this the default page: http://mhz.homelinux.org/somework/EmacsCommands?action=SlideShow
<mhz> Burgundavia: this is why  we do not use Mediawiki: http://linux.lcampino.cl/wiki/index.php?title=Matematicas_Libre&action=history
<mhz> and I should have only seen this instead: http://linux.lcampino.cl/wiki/index.php?title=Matematicas_Libre
<mhz> ohhh, nothing to do but, we should have some sort of statistics to know how many schools/ teachers/ students/ pcs/ etc we have running edubuntu
<mhz> In Colombia, a friend of mine has this: http://estadisticas.slec.net/ejemplos
<CuriousG> bimberi, this is a regular user I created under users and group.  I even chose the "Default" profile the one that says "Unprivileged" under the comment section.
<CuriousG> I thought at first it was because I was using the first account that was created then I created another one using Desktop profile and same thing and now created the Default and still same thing.  It just shuts down the server.  If I turn it back on, it comes back to where I was shut down if I had logged in already.
<mhz> CuriousG: hmmm, now thatr you mention it...
<mhz> IIRC, I had same issue yesterday night
<mhz> when leaving the LAB
<mhz> I was on the phone and one friend was testing a client. Then he shutdowns his client and when I got back to the server it was already down too!
<mhz> NOW I get it
<mhz> CuriousG: yes, it is big issue, indeed!
<CuriousG> I don't have the shutdown problem if you click on the light switch from thin client after you log off.
<CuriousG> But hibernate shut down the server.  I was just wondering if it was just me or some setting in the BIOS I needed to tweak.
<CuriousG> Surely don't want kids to mess with something like that.
<mhz> CuriousG: my issue was my friend did not log out his session, he chose 'shutdown' from Client side 
<mhz> that is huge issue
<CuriousG> I don't have a shutdown option from client.  There is a log off though.
<CuriousG> Then after you log off and get the login screen, there is a light switch on the bottom left corner that you can hit to shut down the thin client
<CuriousG> and that didn't appear to affect the server.
<mhz> oh, I'll have to recheck tomorrow then
<CuriousG> I also thought maybe hibernate was an option because this is a laptop I'm PXE booting from.
<mhz> maybe he did something diff
<bimberi> brb
<CuriousG> Now if he was logged in from the server however, there is a restart and shutdown option.
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> but he wasn't
* mhz does not let anyone touch the server
<CuriousG> well I guess Dapper isn't so battle tested
<mhz> CuriousG: hmm, so it seems now
<mhz> but, we'll see, Maybe it is a foolish thing we are missing
<CuriousG> I don't even understand the directions that were given for the 2 NIC setup
<HedgeMage> mhz: yep, TT needed me, but he's safely (and exhaustedly) in bed now :)
<CuriousG> I'm able to surf with the thin clients without making changes
<CuriousG> yet it talks about changing some files
<mhz> HedgeMage: and you are happy he is exhausted for next 4 or 6 hours :D
<mhz> it is just too incredible how fast the can recharge energies!
<HedgeMage> mhz: yep :)
<CuriousG> bimberi, any new insight as to my problem?
<bimberi> CuriousG: where do you see the hibernate option?
<CuriousG> When you click the door at the top right corner
<CuriousG> Obviously if you're running a desktop it shouldn't matter but this is from a thin client
<CuriousG> and when doing that it appears to hibernate but at the same time it'll hibernate the server to the point it shuts it off.
<CuriousG> Then when you turn the server back on, it'll come back up from where you left off.
<bimberi> hm, i only have Logout, Switch User and Lock Screen.  However my server is still at about Dapper Beta 2.
<CuriousG> I'm running release
<CuriousG> and I've updated
<CuriousG> also ran easyubuntu
<CuriousG> so unless something there changed it.
* HedgeMage wonders if CuriousG's nick is a reference to a mischievous monkey in a red T-shirt
* CuriousG but of course.
<bimberi> i think there was some last minute fiddling with the logout dialog - not edubuntu specific afaik
* HedgeMage grins at CuriousG 
<HedgeMage> nice :)
<CuriousG> then again that was before they made a stupid movie out of it... had that nick for over a decade.
<HedgeMage> I never knew there was a movie... my brother loved the books as a kid and introduced my son to them :)
<CuriousG> I think it came out last year
<HedgeMage> ahh
<HedgeMage> I missed it
<Burgundavia> avoid it at all costs
<HedgeMage> lol that bad?
<Burgundavia> yep
<CuriousG> never watched it.
<CuriousG> anyway I don't even know what the correct way of setting up the DHCP server so if I hooked up a Windows computer, they're able to surf through the edubuntu server.
<CuriousG> using 2 NICs
<CuriousG> Seems to work fine for clients
<Burgundavia> you need to bind the dhcp server to one of the nics
<CuriousG> let me try this again... it gets DHCP info but apparantly it isn't working the way I want it to
<CuriousG> I tried different dhcpd.conf options
<CuriousG> the eth1 NIC is the one to the Internet and that one is doing it by DHCP
<CuriousG> and eth0 is static
<CuriousG> private IP
<Burgundavia> that is correct
<Burgundavia> now you need a dhcp server on eth0, for the clients
<CuriousG> why was there all this fuss on some doc page I found if you have two NICs it tells you to do all this other stuff?
<Burgundavia> then clean it up
<CuriousG> that is how it is done
<CuriousG> If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't need the help :)
<CuriousG> actually dhcpd is working for eth0
<Burgundavia> indeed
* LaserJock loved Curious George as a kid
<CuriousG> what should the dhcpd.conf settings be.
<mhz_work> Burgundavia: I read the spec...Cape Town to South Africa ?
<bimberi> mhz_work: too late :P
<Burgundavia> mhz_work: fixed it
<CuriousG> it shouldn't all point back to the server IP?
<Burgundavia> for what?
<CuriousG> like option domain-name-server and routers?
<CuriousG> router I tried my router and it didn't work
<Burgundavia> no idea, I have never installed Edubuntu
<CuriousG> dns pointed to the same thing
<CuriousG> which is what windows client gets
<mhz_work> Burgundavia: hehehe, sorry, I had like 20 tabs, so I read them all from 1st to last :)
<Burgundavia> mhz_work: no worries
* mhz_work refreshes cache now
<bimberi> CuriousG: i don't think an edubuntu server is set up to do NAT by default
<CuriousG> Which is what this document mentioned
<CuriousG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT
<CuriousG> I thought it was just old
<Burgundavia> hm, no idea
* Burgundavia kicks mhz_work
<CuriousG> I don't have an /etc/network/option file for one
<CuriousG> options that is
<Burgundavia> mhz_work: your edubuntu docs are out of date on teh wiki. Clean them up
<CuriousG> So it leaves me back to where I was.  Still don't know why the hibernate doesn't work.
<bimberi> CuriousG: i find that page confusing.  if you're on a thin client you're logged into the server.  So if the server has access to the internet so would anyone logged into it.
<Burgundavia> try the mailing list
<mhz_work> Burgundavia: which? all?
<Burgundavia> mhz_work: there are outdated docs on the wiki, please get rid of them
<CuriousG> then why would you need to do thin client NAT?
<mhz_work> Burgundavia: okis
<Amaranth> I think my proxy needs a better name than WillowNG. :P
* bimberi visualises Burgundavia wielding a rolling-pin
<Burgundavia> bimberi: I prefer a shovel, really
<Amaranth> And soon, before I have to change it in 20,000 places.
<bimberi> lol
<Burgundavia> then I can bury the evidence afterwards
<CuriousG> All the ltsp implementations have 2 NICs.  So I'm wondering why the getting started doc doesn't cover the two NIC setup.
<CuriousG> rather than just one.
<Burgundavia> I blame highvoltage
<CuriousG> I'm not on k12ltsp because I don't want to download 4-5 CDs just to install it.
<Burgundavia> indeed
<CuriousG> skolelinux I had some issues with and their recommended server, thin-client server setup
<Burgundavia> highvoltage wrote the docs
<Burgundavia> CuriousG: try the edubuntu mailing list
<CuriousG> I'd like to think these are all simple questions that many people will run into
<CuriousG> I was looking in the archives
<Burgundavia> likely they are
<bimberi> CuriousG: you could try firestarter, it provides a gui to setup NAT
<CuriousG> did find the answer to something I had an issue when I changed the IP address.
<Burgundavia> this is only the 2nd release of edubuntu, so the docs are not their yet
<CuriousG> firestarter?  Link?
<bimberi> !info firestarter
<ubotu> firestarter: (gtk program for managing and observing your firewall), section universe/admin, is optional. Version: 1.0.3-1.1ubuntu1 (breezy), Packaged size: 384 kB, Installed size: 1904 kB
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: Any ideas for a name for WillowNG? :)
<bimberi> smeg! - now that it's unused
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: was thinking myself. But listening to the Bloodhound Gang was leading to all sort of innappropriate ideas
<Amaranth> Haha.
<Amaranth> Don't want to go through that again. :)
<bimberi> :)
<Burgundavia> HoneyComb I guess gives the wrong idea
<Amaranth> It's full of holes!
<Burgundavia> SewageTreatmentPlant also might be bad, although it is getting the filtering idea
<CuriousG> I say dangdittydangdittydangdittyditty
<mhz_work> Amaranth: call it mordor
<Amaranth> hehe
<mhz_work> :)
<Amaranth> the all seeing eye of sauron? :)
<mhz_work> yeah!
<mhz_work> even better: sauron
<mhz_work> or TheEye
<mhz_work> "This proxy sees it all, lets it all in, but not all goes out"
<bimberi> I guess a cricketing reference is too obscure for many (willow is used to make cricket bats)
<Burgundavia> isn't there a castle at the edge of mordor, with gates?
<Amaranth> the black gate?
<Burgundavia> ya, that got another name?
<mhz_work> kill bill?
<LaserJock> lol
<Burgundavia> hmm, Willow is Saliko in Esperanto
<Burgundavia> that is nice name
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: Nope, it's just "Black Gate"
<Amaranth> hmm, saliko
<Amaranth> abusing foreign languages for project names is what i'm good at :)
<Amaranth> (pymusique, libmusik, alacarte, etc) :)
<bimberi> Isenguard ?
<mhz_work> Amaranth: what is the 3 words to sum up your proxy?
<Burgundavia> bimberi: too common
<Amaranth> mhz_work: No idea. :)
<mhz_work> LaserJock: yeah, that was a very tricky fast joke
<Amaranth> I could name it sieve. ;)
<bimberi> note the LOTR spelling is isengard
<Burgundavia> might get the wrong idea
<Amaranth> it leaks like a sieve?
<bimberi> NetQA
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> that reminds me
<mhz_work> he
<Burgundavia> sweet, I have bad touch (the discovery channel song) by the Bloodhound Gang
<Burgundavia> boring
<mhz_work> How about PimpNG
<Amaranth> i accidently left it running for about 4 hours, was using 1.6MB of writable memory (the closest thing to actual memory usage)
<mhz_work> eeek
<Amaranth> apparently it leaked .2MB over 4 hours
<Amaranth> because on a fresh start it's only using 1.4MB
<Burgundavia> that might be an issue
<Amaranth> although i removed a couple print statements in between
<Amaranth> so who knows
<Amaranth> i'll leave it running overnight refreshing firefox's BBC RSS feed
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: I expect a package asap, so we can test it
<CuriousG> speaking of firefox, how do you setup firefox so that every user will have the same theme and installed extensions?
<Burgundavia> CuriousG: you need the CCK
<CuriousG> ?
<Burgundavia> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/cck/firefox/
<CuriousG> thanks
<Burgundavia> some of the extensions are also packaged, so you can push those down
<Burgundavia> CuriousG: hmm, that might not work
<CuriousG> this applies for all OS platforms?
<CuriousG> uh
<CuriousG> oh
<Burgundavia> then I don't know
<CuriousG> I was talking about for edubuntu but it'd be nice for WinX also
<Amaranth> oh, it's not leaking
<Amaranth> it's just staying at a certain max
<Amaranth> so if i do something that causes it to use 20MB it'll stick at 20MB, i guess
* Amaranth smacks python
<bimberi> pyllow
<Amaranth> because i queue the entire file before sending it to the browser (so i can check it)
<Amaranth> and when i set filter_data back to '' (blank string) it creates a new string
<Amaranth> apparently the memory used by the old one is kept by python
<Burgundavia> bimberi: boring
<bimberi> that's me :P
<bimberi> StoolStopper
<Amaranth> arg
<Amaranth> i'll stab it with gc.DEBUG_LEAK tomorrow
<Amaranth> i just made it go up to 2MB
<cbx33> mornin all
<Burgundavia> hey cbx33
<Amaranth> hehe, and with a major stress test i couldn't get it over 1.9MB
<cbx33> hi Burgundavia, Amaranth 
<Amaranth> i bookmarked about 15 sites, cleared the firefox cache, restarted the proxy, and opened all the sites at once
<mhz_work> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hi mhz_work 
<cbx33> Amaranth, sound like it's going good?
<Amaranth> more or less
<cbx33> heheh
<HedgeMage> I'm somewhat here... highlight me if you want my attention :)
<mhz_work> eeek! this is freak!
<mhz_work> OT: a site to place claims agression caused by women to men in colombia! http://www.lamma.com.co/
* HedgeMage peeks in
<pygi> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<pygi> how are you? :)
<HedgeMage> pygi: thanking the DYC for imap
<HedgeMage> pygi: at least when the lappy tanked, I didn't lose my email or its organization
<Amaranth> holy crap
<Amaranth> I think I just finally ended the automatix-easyubuntu flamewar.
<pygi> Amaranth, how? what? when? why? and what? :)
<Amaranth> I made ubotu say the same thing for both of them and (hopefully) setup a policy where if you start talking about them, get send the ubotu factoid, and keep talking about them you get a +q.
<Amaranth> Pretty simple, really.
<Lintunen> http://www.edubuntu.org/images/runltsconf.png   this is not working for me :7
<Amaranth> oh, crap
<pygi> HedgeMage, eh
<Amaranth> Python never returns freed RAM to the OS, it always holds on to it in case it's needed agan.
<Amaranth> So if for some odd reason my proxy were to peak at 120MB usage it would stay that way.
<Amaranth> I guess I need to ditch the threads and go to forking.
<Lintunen> How you activate in terminal local usb drive to work?
* HedgeMage contemplates tea
<bimberi> Amaranth: at least this is a good point to find these things out (rather than post-release)
<Amaranth> yeah, although i already knew this one :P
<HedgeMage> Lintunen: I don't know that it is possible, but I'm the least-LTSP-knowledgeable person here, so bug ogra or someone before you give up
<Amaranth> I just haven't written any long-running Python projects in awhile.
<Amaranth> Now that's _cool_.
<Amaranth> Watching it fork in gnome-system-monitor while loading a page, then watching it go back to 1.4MB usage when the page is done.
<anamaria> hello
<anamaria> help gnome-panel doesn't start
<pygi> Lintunen, what exactly doesn't work? Starting gedit??
<pygi> anamaria, more info would be helpful
<anamaria> after i log in it is stopping
<anamaria> i read some forum
<anamaria> but i cant get it
* bimberi suddenly remembers a remote printing daemon he has that uses python's xmlrpc
<pygi> anamaria, that's not very informative :-/
<pygi> is the process a zombie?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pygi> mornin' highvoltage 
<HedgeMage> pygi: how many newbies know how to recognize a zombie? :P
<pygi> HedgeMage, ergh, right :-/
<pygi> anamaria, you can try writing "top" and see at top does it says you have any zombies
<HedgeMage> anamaria: You log in, and the panel freezes (starts to appear then won't finish) or it doesn't show up at all?
<anamaria> it is freezeing on the brown page
<HedgeMage> so it's just plain brown when it stops, but that's after you enter your username and password, am I right?
<anamaria> hedegemage yes
<anamaria> what should i do?
<HedgeMage> anamaria: is it a new install, or one you have been running for a while (that is, did it work before and stop, or has it always done this?)
<anamaria> is the first install of me
<highvoltage> mornin' pygi!
<HedgeMage> okay, and it is Edubuntu Dapper, correct?
<anamaria> and of edubuntu
<anamaria> yes
* HedgeMage thinks
<bimberi> unlikely, but ...
<bimberi> !xhangs
<ubotu> If the GUI hangs after logging in, use <ctrl><alt><f1> to switch to text mode. Log in and do: rm .{X,ICE}authority
<HedgeMage> anamaria: if what ubotu (and bimberi) said doesn't help, let us know and we will try another idea :)
<anamaria> rm .{X,ICE}authority i did it
<anamaria> but same result
<bimberi> :(
<HedgeMage> anamaria: did you restart X (or the whole computer if you don't know how to do just X) after trying it?
<pygi> anamaria, CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE
<anamaria> i switched in text mode
<anamaria> i typed rm .{X,ICE}authority and ctrl alt f7
<pygi> anamaria, do CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE pls :)
<Amaranth> does that rm command actually work?
<anamaria> now appears the yelow square with ubuntu 
<anamaria> but it freezes
<Amaranth> :/
<Amaranth> closer
<anamaria> ?
<spacey> oh
<spacey> i had that login problem a few times after i rebooted during system upgrades
<HedgeMage> spacey: fix?
<anamaria> any ideea?
* HedgeMage wonders if spacey spaced out on us
<spacey> uuh
<pygi> anamaria, can you try doing "sudo dexconf" 
<spacey> HedgeMage: just dpkg --configure -a
<pygi> and do reboot, and start a computer
<spacey> if something was left it will resume
<pygi> hey JaneW ;)
<JaneW> hello
<pygi> how are you? :)
<jimjimovich2> hi everyone
<jimjimovich2> anyone have any tips on getting usb devices to work on the thin client?
<anamaria> pygi not working
<anamaria> i will quit on edubuntu
<pygi> anamaria, that's not good attitude
<HedgeMage> hi JaneW 
<pygi> do you have internet access?
<JaneW> pygi: still dying :(
<anamaria> yes
<pygi> JaneW, don't die :(
<JaneW> :/
<pygi> anamaria, do: sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
* HedgeMage applies a Last Chance Salve to JaneW 
<pygi> after that, do "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" and configure monitor
<JaneW> what happened to my immune system? I used to hardly get sick at all...
<pygi> after that reboot
<HedgeMage> JaneW: stress and not enough sleep?
<jimjimovich2> anyone have any luck with ltspfs?
<JaneW> HedgeMage: well I am sleeping more and stressing less in the last week or so...
<JaneW> HedgeMage: perhaps it's a stress relief thing?
<jimjimovich2> how can i see what is running on my thin client?
<highvoltage> JaneW: i talked to alastair, he says an interview with ogra sounds interesting, he's going to discuss it with the rest of tectonic team and get back to us
<highvoltage> jimjimovich2: i don't think ltspfs works with ubuntu ltsp yet
<HedgeMage> JaneW: could be
<jimjimovich2> ogra pointed me to the ltspfs docs the other day, and the packages are there for it.  i just have no clue how to configure it. it's so very unclear how and where edubuntu ltsp is different from regular ltsp
<JaneW> highvoltage: great! thanks
<JaneW> highvoltage: when are you guys moving?
<JaneW> highvoltage: Richard may be taking over my desk there soon...
<jimjimovich2> it seems that ogra has packaged ltspfs and ltspfsd for edubuntu, but you have to install and configure yourself
<jimjimovich2> so, if ltspfs doesn't work.  is there any solution for mounting a local floppy or usb drive?  we really need this for our lab.
<pygi> jimjimovich2, share via samba and mount in kernel space?
<jimjimovich2> pygi: wow. that doesn't sound fun at all
<pygi> ergh, I wrote few scripts and a explanation on how to setup things like that, just can't find it right now
<pygi> jimjimovich2, you could do something like this in lts.conf
<pygi> 	LOCAL_DEVICE_01 = /dev/hdc:cdrom
<pygi> 	LOCAL_DEVICE_02 = /dev/fd0:floppy 
<pygi> 	LOCAL_DEVICE_03 = /dev/sda1:usb
<pygi> 	HOTPLUG = Y
<pygi> 	ALLOW_UNKNOWN_USB = Y 
<pygi> 
<highvoltage> JaneW: after the end of this month some time
<pygi> for usb devices, it's really tricky to configure it properly :-/
<pygi> And I gotta run preety soon
<highvoltage> JaneW: what's richard going to do?
<jimjimovich2> pygi: do i have to somehow turn on USB in the lts.conf?
<jimjimovich2> pygi: like load a module or something?
<pygi> jimjimovich2, kindaof, but it's not that easy
<pygi> kindof*
<jimjimovich2> is there any way at all to see what's running on the thin client? Like, pull up a terminal window that's logged into the thin client and not the server?  so, run like "top" and see what's running on the client?
<pygi> jimjimovich2, student control panel
<jimjimovich2> pygi: how do i get this?
<pygi> jimjimovich2, sudo apt-get install student-control-panel :P
<jimjimovich2> pygi: thanks, i've seen vague references to this scattered around, but never anything that even explained what the student control panel is
<pygi> jimjimovich2, :)
<jimjimovich2> ok, that kicks butt
<pygi> s-c-p is still in early stages tho, but it works :P
<cbx33> hi all
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
<pygi> mornin' python :)
<HedgeMage> lol
<cbx33> mornin python mentor
<cbx33> working with treeviews now :p
<cbx33> so where does pygi come from.... python - guy?
* cbx33 considers changing his name to - joatmon
<cbx33> Jack Of All Trades, Master Of None
<cbx33> brb
<pygi> cbx33, bah :)
<cbx33> thanks for all the help pygi 
<cbx33> seriously I'd not be doing any python if it weren't for you
<cbx33> you gave me the kick i needed
<pygi> heh, someone else would help you
<JaneW> highvoltage: http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=943 :(
<pygi> JaneW, linspire? :-/
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, i saw that. i don't think it's entirely a bad thing, tbph
<JaneW> highvoltage: oic
<highvoltage> firstly, at least they are very public about their intentions to roll out linux based machines. where lenovo said they specifically won't roll out linux laptops.
<JaneW> highvoltage: yes any linux pre-installed is good imo
<JaneW> but would have been nice if it were ubuntu
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> i think that's going to happen in the future though.
<highvoltage> at the time they made the release, linspire had a friendlier (read: more colourful) package manager front-end, which swayed them over.
<highvoltage> if they were to compare dapper with linspire, i'm sure they would choose dapper.
* cbx33 thought at one time of setting up a computer company to supply machines with ubuntu
<highvoltage> cbx33: i have too, unfortunately my current contract prohibits me from starting something on the side :/
<jimjimovich2> ok, i need some honest feedback here.  is it a waste of my time to try to mount local floppies and/or usb drives at this point?
<HedgeMage> jimjimovich2: don't give up until you've asked ogra about it at least
<jimjimovich2> i'm thinking, that as seldom as students use removable media, maybe there's a simpler solution
<jimjimovich2> we have about 15 computers, and they're all completely different, i just can't see how it'll work (when I can't get it to work on one)
<HedgeMage> jimjimovich2: I know the problem of mounting removable media at the thin client was discussed a while back, I just don't know if it's solved in dapper or in the works for edgy
<jimjimovich2> ok, i'll chill and as ogra later
<blue-frog> hi is there a command line to revert Dapper to previous state (meaning did some updates yesterday or 2 days ago and I thing those updates are doing something strange with my cdroms, would like to check without reinstalling)
<jimjimovich2> on the topic of linspire ... i think that a big part of it seeming "easier" to use is that it looks like windows.  It was hard to sell our bosses on the idea of using Linux when we showed them a default gnome install, but after we made it look more like windows, it seems like a psychological barrier was lifted
<jimjimovich2> personally, i think the default gnome is easier than windows, but it's hard for people to get past the idea of not having a start button.  So, this is our default desktop for students.  So far, they all like it.  One person even believed us when we told them it was Windows Vista.  http://flickr.com/photos/jimjimovich/162343385/
<DanielC> Hello. I want to upgrade an Edubuntu LTSP to Dapper and I'm reading the relevant instructions. Is it really safe to 'rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386 && ltsp-build-client' ?
<DanielC> Will I have to recreate the users? Reconfigure their accounts?
<DanielC> Will the users lose their personal files?
<HedgeMage> DanielC: you might want to hang out a while or ask on the mailing list... it's pretty quiet in here at the moment
<jsgotangco> BOO!
<DanielC> Ok. I just asked on the list. Let's see if anyone responds.
<jsgotangco> i think you will just have to recreate the chroots
<jsgotangco> not sure about the user accounts though
<DanielC> Ok.
<Hobbsee> JaneW: are you leaving us?
<HedgeMage> Hobbsee: she's leaving canonical, but we expect to see her here from time to time
<Hobbsee> ah, i see
* jsgotangco will miss JaneW terribly
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you can read my blog :P
<cbx33> highvoltage: yeh I know, it's just the financial side
<cbx33> I already run a web design company with my wife
<jsgotangco> :P
<cbx33> I think my brother in law wants to do something like that when he's older
<jsgotangco> morning ogra 
<cbx33> hi ogra 
<cbx33> DanielC: ping
<DanielC> pong
<cbx33> don't take my word as gospel truth
<cbx33> you need ogra for that 
<DanielC> :)
<cbx33> but but...
<cbx33> the command you mentioned earlier should just removed the NFS root boot
<cbx33> all documents account settings etc are stored in the actual server
<cbx33> not the chroot that is exported over nfs
<DanielC> Ah. I did not know that.
<DanielC> What does the chroot do then?
<cbx33> essentially
<cbx33> there is a small, tiny, installation of ubuntu/edubuntu in that folder
<cbx33> when the clients boot up, they are pointed to that folder and do not see any of ther parent folders
<cbx33> as far as they are concerned that is their entire Hard drive if you get my meaning
<DanielC> Yes.
<jimjimovich2> ogra: i was asking eariler (when you were not here) about mounting local floppies (and/or usb drives).  I tried installing ltspfs and ltspfsd from the repositories ... but i'm having no luck getting it running. Any ideas?
<DanielC> cbx33: I think I understand. This tiny little ubuntu system then runs some program that runs a remote X connection. So what I "see" on the thin client is actually the main server. Is that right?
<cbx33> yes
<DanielC> Ok, I got the general idea. Thank you.
<cbx33> the client uses SSH to connect a tunnelled X session
<DanielC> Ok. I just learnt something today :)  So recreating the ltsp client should be pretty safe and pretty quick. Great.
<cbx33> DanielC: I would think so
<cbx33> but as I said before ogra is the man for gospel truth
<cbx33> I updated mine a while ago and it was ok
<DanielC> Ok, understood.
<RobinShepheard> Hi All
<RobinShepheard> Just a quick question, has anybody used multiple servers with round-robin dns to load balance??
<cbx33> nope
<RobinShepheard> I am just wondering whether it would work ok
<RobinShepheard> as far as I reckon, once it has downloaded the os and setup the ssh connection, it should only speak to the same server each time
<RobinShepheard> but I wasn't sure whether this is the case, I will do a test install of a couple of machines here I guess
<RobinShepheard> ssh tunnels dont query dns once they are up do thery ???
<RobinShepheard> doh they
<DanielC> cbx33: Do you know how long the ltsp-build-client step takes?
<cbx33> hmm...
<cbx33> 15-30 mins last go i did
<DanielC> Alright, thanks.
<cbx33> anyone here ever created a dvd
<highvoltage> what kind of dvd? dvd-rom, dvd video?
<RobinShepheard> cbx33:  one is available for download from the download page
<cbx33> dvd video
<cbx33> I'm using qdvdauthor
<cbx33> but I've never written a DVD before
<cbx33> :S
<DanielC> I've written a *data* DVD, but never a movie.
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> writing a dvd is pretty much exactly the same as writing a cd image
<cbx33> highvoltage: I had the video_ts and audio_ts folders
<cbx33> do i just bung them on a cd?
<cbx33> eeek
<highvoltage> yep
<cbx33> really?
<highvoltage> well, on a dvd, at least
<cbx33> not like an iso then
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> yes, like an iso.
<cbx33> wasn't aware it was that easy?
<highvoltage> sorry, yes, you don't burn it as raw data
<cbx33> you can't do that with a cd can you?
<highvoltage> you make in iso first and them burn that iso
<cbx33> ah 
<cbx33> do you have any hints on how to make the iso
* cbx33 is just having a brainwave about a new feature for gISOMount
<cbx33> iso building
<cbx33> :D
<highvoltage> you can use K3b or graveman or mkisofs
<cbx33> are any of them gui?
<highvoltage> k3b and graveman are
<highvoltage> graveman is gnome, k3b kde
<highvoltage> bbl
<cbx33> thanks highvoltage 
<jimjimovich2> is it possible to log into the server from a linux machine that is not a thin client?  Like, can I pull up a session on the Edubuntu server from my Ubuntu desktop?
<cbx33> jimjimovich2: it should be possible in theory
<cbx33> jimjimovich2: I just use a vmware machine on my desktop to connect to the server
<jimjimovich2> cbx33: ok, i was gonna ask about that too.  So, you can do a network boot with vmware? What about with vmware player?
<cbx33> dunno about player
<cbx33> buit remeber server is now free
<jimjimovich2> cbx33: true.  we're using it ... forgot about that. One of those days, i guess :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ping ogra seen the post on the ML about local devices?
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: someone from the lug suggested that if we do get permission to do BETT2007 that if we can prove we are not for profit we may be able to get some free space or atleast a much reduced rate
<DanielC> Help help. I upgraded to dapper and how "eth0" is gone.
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: no such luck
<cbx33> I already spoke to the organisers
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: try running sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart from a command line eg ctrl+alt+F1
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: Oh well it was worth a thought
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: I already tried that, but eth0 just doesn't exist.
<RobinShepheard> it there anything in system --> networking??
<DanielC> No, there isn't.
<RobinShepheard> have you restarted the machine since the update??
<DanielC> Yes, I have.
<DanielC> If you do 'networking restart' it says 'eth0: ERROR: No such device".
<RobinShepheard> what machine are you running, desktop or laptop??
<DanielC> Laptop.
<RobinShepheard> what make?
<DanielC> This is a PCMCIA ethernet card.
<DanielC> Dell Inspiron 2500
<RobinShepheard> ok what chipset is it, do you know??
<DanielC> No, not really.
<cbx33> how can i send a message to an X session?
<RobinShepheard> what make is the ethernet card??
<cbx33> like when you shutdown a machine
<DanielC> I just pulled it out, it doesn't say what make it is.
<RobinShepheard> that does make things a little more tricky
<DanielC> When I run lspci I can't see anything I recognize as an ethernet card. But I admit I'm not sure what I'm looking for.
<cbx33> hmmm
<DanielC> Is there a general hardware detection program I can run?
<cbx33> that's even more tricky
<cbx33> DanielC: 
<cbx33> can you post the output of lspci somewhere?
<cbx33> gonna be tricky seeing as you don;t have a network card
<cbx33> USB stick or something?
<ogra> DanielC, type dmesg in a terminal after plugging it in
<RobinShepheard> when it plugged back in, can you please open a terminal applications --> accessories --> terminal then type lspci
<DanielC> ogra: dmesg outputs a lot of information...should I grep anything?
<cbx33> try grepping for net
<ogra> lspci wont show anything
<ogra> (its pcmcia)
<cbx33> ogra: oh sorry I didn't read above
<RobinShepheard> doh good point ogra
<ogra> DanielC, look for something like bcm43xx :)
<DanielC> dmesg|grep net == audit: initializing netlink socket
<cbx33> i was assuming he was shuttong the machine down
<ogra> i bet its a broadcom card
<cbx33> ogra: you da man
<DanielC> dmesg|grep bcm == blank
<ogra> ok
<ogra> so its not
<cbx33> hmmm
<DanielC> This card used to work with Breezy and with Hoary before that.
<cbx33> hmm
<ogra> does it create any ethX device after you replug it ?
<RobinShepheard> I am not using a pcmcia card, but would it register under pccard in dmesg ??
<DanielC> ls /dev/|grep eth == blank
<cbx33> does dmesg | grep net
<DanielC> dmesg|grep net == audit: initializing netlink socket
<cbx33> dmesg | grep pccard
<ogra> do: dmesg|tail -50 
<ogra> and paste that to a pastebin
<cbx33> if you can get to a paste bin
<cbx33> seeing as network is down
<cbx33> ;)
<RobinShepheard> suggestion use grep -i and then choice as it ignores case
<DanielC> ls /dev/|grep pccard ==
<DanielC> pccard: PCMCIA card inserted into slot 0
<DanielC> pccard: card rejected from slot 0
<cbx33> ok cool so it's pciking it up
<RobinShepheard> how about dmesg | grep -i net
<cbx33> what's inbetween those lines
<cbx33> good idea
<DanielC> "dmesg | grep -i net" gives a few lines of "NET: Registered protocol family x" where x is an integer.
<cbx33> what about
<cbx33> dmesg | grep found
<cbx33> the last line
<cbx33> that that finds?
<cbx33> if it does
<DanielC> The last line is "ibm_acpi: ec object not found". I don't see any line I recognize as an ethernet card.
<ogra> you wont gain anything by grepping for single lines you need to see the whole snippet of dmesg after the card was plugged in
<DanielC> It lists ACPI,pnp, isapnp, cardbus and smpbus.
<RobinShepheard> cardbus is the pcmcia
<cbx33> malloc(): memory corruption
<RobinShepheard> my regex's are a bit rusty, how could you filter to mach a mac address
<lucasvo> hi everybody
<RobinShepheard> i know the basic is ??:??:??:??:??:?? but I am not sure how to get this to work with grep
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: it doesn't always display it
<RobinShepheard> I know but I was thinking it was worth a try
<RobinShepheard> If you have a mac address you can find the vendor
<cbx33> true
<RobinShepheard> I know my built in card displays the mac on detection but I dont know about pcmcia, I have never used a pcmcia card
<cbx33> the mac should be on the card
<RobinShepheard> yeah but if it can't find the card it is a bit of a no go, unless it registers the hardware and mac on boot and then says it rejects it
<cbx33> doubt it
<DanielC> Where can I past the dmesg output? I just got it off a usb stick.
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> pastebin.com
<DanielC> http://pastebin.com/767197
<cbx33> **** SET: Misaligned resource pointer: d3bdfa22 Type 07 Len 0 ??
<DanielC> No idea what that means.
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> but it's not picking up the data
<cbx33> so far as I can see
<RobinShepheard> well i damned if i can see anything useful
<cbx33> me either
<cbx33> ogra: ?
<DanielC> Dang! I have to go!  Grrr....
<DanielC> Thanks for the help anyways. I guess I'll come back tomorrow and ask again...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> takecar
<RobinShepheard> just a quick thought, has it loaded module for the pcmcia system??
<DanielC> btw: daniel.carrera@zmsl.com
* DanielC dashes off to setup Linux at a school...
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: that's an idea
<cbx33> we'll try some lsmod's tomorroe
<cbx33> ping ogra: an unrelated question, when packaging, if my python program has to call in a glade file which is stored in another directory, how do i ge the install to manage that.  Like when testing normally they are both in the same dir
<cbx33> but once in stalled they might both reside elsewhere?
<ogra> use dh_install and the .install file 
<cbx33> yeh I have done that
<cbx33> but in the python script I need to call in the glade file
<cbx33> which no longer resides in the same dir
<cbx33> as the script itself
<cbx33> do i have to hardcode the path of the glade file? - there must be a better way?
<ogra> use the path where irt resides then 
<ogra> nope, in the python code
* RobinShepheard waves good bye
<RobinShepheard> have to ga and meet the better half for lunch, see you all later
<cbx33> bye RobinShepheard 
<cbx33> ogra: I'm not sure I follow
<ogra> ciao
<cbx33> gisomount lives in /usr/sbin for exampl
<ogra> err, why do you call scripts in the glade file ? 
<cbx33> and gisomount.glade lives in /usr/share/gisomount/
<cbx33> gisomount needs gisomount.glade to run
<cbx33> when I'm developing they are both in the same dir
<ogra> yes, so you call /usr/share/gisomount/gisomount.glade from your python code
<cbx33> really?
<cbx33> I hardcode it in?
<ogra> instead of gisomount.glade
<cbx33> that was what I was asking
<cbx33> ok, is that not inflexible?
<ogra> why ? its a package, the location doesnt change ... indeed you could add a conf file and define the path there if you want to make it more portable to non debian distros
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks ogra I'll do it that way
<cbx33> I think I managed to make my first package from scratch
<cbx33> :D
<ogra> great !
<cbx33> it installs fine
<cbx33> just didnt run
<cbx33> because of that issue
<ogra> i'm just doing a ltsp-manager driven ltsp install 
<cbx33> just ognna fix now
<cbx33> WOW
<cbx33> you're fast
<ogra> if thats finished i'll upload the initial package
<cbx33> ogra: you are da man
<cbx33> I'm impressed
<ogra> still missing a lot
<lucasvo> too bad we didn't have it for dapper
<cbx33> did you see I used treeviews
<lucasvo> ogra: what for e.g.?
<ogra> but will be fun to work on it
<cbx33> they are quit cool
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra> its my big pet project for edgy :)
<cbx33> nice
<lucasvo> ogra: last time I checked, one was only able to configure general settings, not per machine
<cbx33> did i hear we're having an scp meeting soon?
<lucasvo> cbx33: when?
<ogra> lucasvo, yes, it wont do more
* lucasvo wants to attend it
<cbx33> so ogra when developing do you keep the glade files in your dir and change the paths upon packaging?
<ogra> yep
* lucasvo is waiting for the (k,ed)ubuntu cd's
<ogra> you can use a try: statement 
<cbx33> ah to try local and alternate location?
<ogra> so you can look for the file in the current dir and fall back to 7usr/share
<lucasvo> ogra: ltsp manager=ltspadmin?
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> ltsp manager > ltspadmin
<ogra> ltspadmin is the old commandline perl script ltsp.org uses
<cbx33> WOW it works
<cbx33> I just created my very first package :D
<cbx33> Laser_away will be so proud
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> there is code for the above galde problem in ldm if you look for a solution btw
<cbx33> ah cool
<cbx33> you don;t use in ltsp-manager?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i'll do once i got to code cleanup and the like :)
<cbx33> i see
<cbx33> so will the package you're creating now install all to a single dir?
<ogra> for now its only free playing around with the code until its in shape ... then i'll do a claenupo and add more error handling etc
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> that's the stage gisomount is in
<cbx33> ogra: at some point
<cbx33> would you do me the greatest honour of looking at my gisomount code and suggesting improvemnts from a structure coding methodology point of view
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> wow thank you
<cbx33> I'll buy you a beer 
<cbx33> or 2
<cbx33> because I'm ok at coding and it works etc, but I'm not sure my structuring and classes are well done or not
<cbx33> I have a bit more work to do, but once it's in a stage where I think it's ready to be viewed I'll let you know
<cbx33> thank you so much
<cbx33> that means a great deal
* cbx33 breathes a sigh of relief
<lucasvo> ogra: it is not good that ltsp-manager doesn't try to open /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf if /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf isn't available
<ogra> lucasvo, /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf must be availabel for ltsp to work right and ltsp-manager hard depends on ltsp-server-standalone
<lucasvo> I think it's crap to take a default config and move it to a non default place
<lucasvo> but I can work without ltsp manager as well
<ogra> how would you do it ? 
<ogra> you cant change files for one package from another one 
<lucasvo> yes
<ogra> ltsp manager is for managing standalone installs, for all other things we'll have something bigger
<lucasvo> what bigger?
<lucasvo> landscape *g*?
<lucasvo> it's like microsoft with windows vista
<lucasvo> Yes, we will implement it in windows vista.
<ogra> so how would you do it if you may not break existing dhcp configs *and* cannt touch the file from ltsp-server-standalone ?
<lucasvo> Yes, this feauture will be improved in windows vista.. :)
<lucasvo>  *and* cannt touch the file from ltsp-server-standalone ?
<lucasvo> is not true
<lucasvo> cannot OPEN is more appropriate
<ogra> lucasvo, please read the packaging policy
<lucasvo> ogra: well, if the conf is in /etc/dhcp make warning 
<ogra> you are not allowed to touch /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf from *any* package but dhcpd
<lucasvo> ogra: even if the user says yes?
<ogra> so you either will have to break *all* dchpd setups out there, *or* you get a conffile prompt which is forbidden in ubuntu since it breaks various other things 
<ogra> so the only way to implement it in a sane manner is to source a different config file ...
<ogra> btw, no debian developer disagrees here (debian uses our implementation this way)
<ogra> lucasvo, belive me, we're not making packaging decisions for fun or to annoy the users 
<ogra> but indeed you are free to file a bug (which would get rejected, but hey you have the opportunity)
<lucasvo> ogra: I think at least the app should run without a conffile in /etc/ltsp
<lucasvo> DHCP settings isn't the sole purpose of this app, is it?
<ogra> of ltsp-server-standalone ? 
<lucasvo> no, ltsp-manager
<ogra> please read the package description
<lucasvo> ogra: which one?
<ogra> ltsp-managers purpose is to be a GUI frontend to ltsp-server-standalone 
<ogra> nothing more
<ogra> and it wont grow into a networkwide ltsp management gadget
<ogra> thats something other apps can do
<lucasvo> ogra: and which one is the app to change the lts.conf?
<ogra> ltsp-managers
<ogra> -s
<lucasvo> ogra: and I am not able to configure my ltsp setup if I don't use the standard dhcpdconf?
<ogra> lucasvo, because you broke everything by fiddling around with the initscripts etc
<jsgotangco> good evening
<lucasvo> ogra: lol
<lucasvo> ogra: it is a blank installation with a rc
<lucasvo> I even have ltsp-standalone admin installed
<lucasvo> the only thing I did: rm /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> ltsp-standalone admin ?
<ogra> whats that ? 
* cbx33 was confused too
<lucasvo> I mean ltsp-standalone
<lucasvo> or whatever this package is called
<lucasvo> lucasvo@supernova:~/Desktop/projekte/ubuntu/ltsp-manager$ sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
<lucasvo> Password:
<lucasvo> Reading package lists... Done
<lucasvo> Building dependency tree... Done
<lucasvo> ltsp-server-standalone is already the newest version
<lucasvo> here
<ogra> and with rm /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf you broke the setup
<lucasvo> ogra: why?
<ogra> because you use the wrong dhcpd.conf *SIGH*
<ogra> either use the package as they are supposed to be used or stop complaining 
<lucasvo> ogra: my question is still unanswered. 
<lucasvo> 15:02 < lucasvo> ogra: and I am not able to configure my ltsp setup if I don't use the standard dhcpdconf?
<lucasvo> I mean the file /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<lucasvo> with a gui
<ogra> sure you are ... rm /etc/dhcpd/dhcpd.conf && cp /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf /etc/dhcpd/dgcp.conf
<lucasvo> it worked a few weeks ago
<ogra> there is no GUI to edit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<lucasvo> ogra: there was
<ogra> there never was
<lucasvo> wasn't there some packge?
<ogra> no
<lucasvo> ok, then I'm sorry
<ogra> else we'd use it
<lucasvo> I thought ltsp-manager is that package
<ogra> yes, it is
<lucasvo> ?
<lucasvo> 15:07 < ogra> there is no GUI to edit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<lucasvo> so is there one or not?
<ogra> there is no gui to edit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<lucasvo> 15:08 < lucasvo> I thought ltsp-manager is that package
<lucasvo> 15:09 < ogra> yes, it is
<lucasvo> ?
<lucasvo> obviously a misunderstanding
<ogra> there will be one once you stopped asking me questions and i can go on with packaging it
<lucasvo> sorry
<lucasvo> I pulled the bzr anyway
* cbx33 is looking forward to it
<lucasvo> ogra: But in bzr version you can configure it
<ogra> bzr version of what ? 
<lucasvo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp-manager/
<ogra> yes, indeed, since thats one of its purposes
<lucasvo> ogra: I was talking about the development version of the package all the time. where one is able to configure it
<ogra> there is only one version of ltsp-manager and there was neither a release yet nor does there exisist a package
<lucasvo> ogra: couldn't you just disable the DHCP tab in this app if there isn't any /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
<ogra> and it probably wont unless i'll get off this channel it seems
<ogra> no
<lucasvo> ogra: but fact is "there is no GUI to edit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf" is wrong
<lucasvo> ogra: ok
<lucasvo> go to work :)
<ogra> SIGH
<jsgotangco> that doesn't work yet
<ogra> nope, it doesnt even have any functionallity to edit lts.conf 
<lucasvo> it's only dummy or what?
<jsgotangco> yep i grokked it last night
<jsgotangco> lucasvo: it has code, but its not full featured yet even the glade setup is just braindumps it seems
<ogra> lucasvo, its a planned feature that will be there if edgy releases, for now neither a release fo ltsp-manager nor a package nor this feature exist
<jsgotangco> ogra didnt get enough time to work on it because it wasn't spec'ed earlier for dapper
<ogra> jsgotangco, it is specced for edgy now and i'll work on it 
<jsgotangco> it was planned for dapper+1 
<jsgotangco> ahh yeah
<ogra> hey mvo 
<jsgotangco> mvo: !
<ogra> what a rare guest :)
<cbx33> hi mvo
<mvo> hello everyone! 
<mvo> I'm here in the search for a .au person :) a friend of mine (who studies to become a teacher) needs some information about the .au highschool system
<jsgotangco> yeah!
<mvo> and this sounds like the perfect place :)
<jsgotangco> you'll get lots of info from greebo
<jsgotangco> she works with a lot of gov't agencies
<jsgotangco> and NGOs
<mvo> nice, thanks!
<mvo> I guess its already a bit late in .au
<jsgotangco> well call up jdub lol
<mvo> heh :)
<cbx33> I found a bug in openoffice
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> a tick box with no text associated with it
<C-O-L-T> Seveas: Hello are you there? I have a big problem with my Dapper. I can not connect to the internet. I use DHCP connection but sometimes works and sometimes not. Under windows everything works well
<C-O-L-T> Seveas: what to do? What is the solution
<ogra> C-O-L-T, thats an #ubuntu question
<lucasvo> C-O-L-T: and Seveas is not the only who can answer it. I suggest you to go to #ubuntu and ask your question there.
<C-O-L-T> ok ok
<lucasvo> the SERVER variable in lts.conf is to define the server which should be used as the terminal server?
<ogra> its set automatically anyway, but yes ... set it only if the server differs from the bootserver
<lucasvo> ogra: well, it could be used for load balancing, could it?
<lucasvo> send half of the clients to another server
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its not that easy
<lucasvo> ogra: have you read the mail from robin?
<lucasvo> what should one do?
<ogra> you would have to keep everything in sync on both servers all the time if you did that...
<lucasvo> ah, yes
<lucasvo> like /home and so on
<ogra> more than that ... probably even /tmp 
<lucasvo> what else?
<lucasvo> why that?
<ogra> its a lot of work to get that reight 
<lucasvo> what's used in /tmp by multiple users?
<ogra> the best way to do load balancing is a openmosix or ssp cluster
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> thats why i said probably
<lucasvo> wah, openmosix is not accepted
<ogra> neither of the cluster solutions is mature enough to enter our kernel
<lucasvo> yeah
<lucasvo> a friend has a running ltsp 4.1 with openmosix
<ogra> so we simply dont have it yet, and its a major pain to set up
<lucasvo> it's quite good
<lucasvo> ogra: what should one reply to the ml?
<blue-frog> hi ogra, would it be sensible for an install to fail because it can't scan the repositories? (no internet connection)
<ogra> we dont have it ... point him to ltsp.org docs there are some instructions how to patch kernels for clustering etc
<ogra> blue-frog, nope
<ogra> blue-frog, it should just time out 
<ogra> (admittedly apt can take 10 mins or more until it times out)
<blue-frog> it does but right after it fails saying one step couldn't be achieved and I see nothing special in console 4
<lucasvo> !package w32codecs
<ubotu> Bugger all, I dunno. Try searching at http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/, lucasvo
<blue-frog> so in fact it installed some software apparently but then fails and everytime i try to run the select and install software step again it shows me straight " an installation step has failed:select and install"
<ogra> did you check the media ? 
<blue-frog> yes the iso is good
<ogra> looks like a broken CD 
<blue-frog> running directly from hdd
<ogra> well, at some point the installer rescans for CD drives ... 
<blue-frog> the only thing left would HDD/motherboard but the y are brand new and I already have an edubuntu on it
<cbx33> hmmm
<ogra> so if it doesnt find the cdrom there might be your problem
<blue-frog> ah thing is i tried HDD as all crdom/dvd i burned lately with dapper are screwed so I wanted to see if i had the same problem with dapper with no updates
<ogra> mhz wrote a nice howto to net-install from an edubuntu iso if you have an apache server around inn your LAN
<ogra> must be on the wiki somewhere
<blue-frog> as the only dvd burned with breezy not dapper is working ok
<blue-frog> Ogra to be honest I suspect a major poopoo with a dapper updates and the cdroms, that's why am trying to run some tests
<blue-frog> I have 2 burner on 2 different puters doing weird things since the updates
<ogra> well, if you didnt tweak your configs to heavily, it shouldnt be a problem to upgrade
<blue-frog> I mean the burners were still ok when i did fresh install of dapper
<blue-frog> and then 2 or 3 days ago after an update they went berzerk
<ogra> just install the update-manager from breezy-updates, run sudo update-manager and youre good to go
<cbx33> ogra: I still have that keyboard issue
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33>  was thinking of reinstalling dapper, just leaving my home partiion unformatted
<ogra> does it happen with the liveCD ?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> that's a plan
<cbx33> ogra: does it on live too
<ogra> likely a driver bug then
<ogra> ask #ubuntu-kernel
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> see y'all later
<jsgotangco> good night
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: have you had a chance to sort out your eth0??
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> afternoon
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<cbx33> howz it going
<highvoltage> going great, even though it's been a tough day.
<cbx33> yeh me too
* cbx33 packaged up gisomount for the first time today :D
<highvoltage> ogra: i just asked on #launchpad, it's intentional that you can sign the CoC with an unsigned GPG key.
<highvoltage> cbx33: cool :)
<cbx33> ah yes
<ogra> highvoltage, i still have noi clear answer for that, but i suspect it is
<cbx33> keyboard fixed :D
<cbx33> or so it seems
<cbx33> it's an acpid issue, they know about it and are fixing it :D
<cbx33> :D)
<cbx33> ogra, you got two secs bud?
<cbx33> question about packaging
<cbx33> howz ltsp-manager going?
<Amaranth> cbx33: Don't do crack man. :P
<cbx33> heh
* cbx33 is goign to put some grub on
<ogra> cbx33, shoot
<ogra> ltsp-manager is done so far, its waiting for the buildds to be ready
<cbx33> oooh nice
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I have a source tree
<cbx33> and I have a source tree with a debian dir seperately
<cbx33> when it comes to update the source tree, do I just dump the source in the dir where I'm packaging 
<cbx33> and overwrite what's alreayd in there
<cbx33> what's the proper way to do things
<ogra> there is a more elegant way, but i do it the same as you (unless i have a new upstream release which requires a new orig.tar.gz)
<cbx33> should I update my orig.tar.gz too?
<cbx33> i used that initially with dh_make
<cbx33> it's out of date now, but the package still builds and installs with the latest source tree
<cbx33> if I do it the way I described
<ogra> well, if you make your first public release you should do it with a fresh orig.tar.gz
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> what is the difference?
<cbx33> or is there essentially none, it's just better practice?
<ogra> you should keep packaging (.diff.gz) and program source (orig.tar.gz) distinct as much as you can
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so does the diff.gz store my changes in the source tree as well?
<cbx33> like when I just copied the new source tree across?
<cbx33> does it compare tothe orig.tar.gz
<cbx33> and make diffs?
<ogra> i.e. the orig.tar.gz should be identical to what the user would get from your apps webpage as tar.gz
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> OH cool
<cbx33> I totally get it now
<cbx33> so if I just re-tared up the orig now,
<cbx33> I don;t have to run dh_make again do I
<cbx33> I can just replace the orig, and the source tree and repackage?
<ogra> move the debian dir out of the tree first
<cbx33> of course
<ogra> and move it back after tarring
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> to enable the packaging to take place
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> I'm really getting this
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> it's easy
<ogra> yep :)
<ogra> it has a very steep learning cruve, but once you got it its really easy 
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I just need to learn how to edit my rules file properly
<cbx33> there's a lot of extraneous info there at the mo
<cbx33> and I can see debuild complaining about stuff but just letting it pass
<ogra> yep, you should drop all unneeded debhelper modules
<cbx33> indeed I will before I release
<cbx33> I would think you can expect the first release within a week
<ogra> btw, do you use debuild only or do you already have a pbuilder set up ?
<cbx33> i did have a pbuilder setup
<cbx33> but currently I build and test in a chroot
<ogra> good :)
<cbx33> I've never used pbuilder really yet
<ogra> just make sure it builds in a pbuilder in the end,, then its ready for the archive 
<cbx33> presumably using debhelper is fine for apps that are non-essential
<cbx33> by that I mean
<cbx33> desktop apps etc
<Amaranth> hey running overnight updating firefox's bbc rss feed my proxy stayed at 1.4MB writable memory
<cbx33> you wouldn't use it for like gzip etc
<cbx33> essential basic apps
<Amaranth> so, forking solves all
<cbx33> am I right?
<ogra> cbx33, what would you use instead ?
<cbx33> writing the rules file from scrath
<cbx33> not using the debhelper scripts
<cbx33> do i make sense?
<ogra> using the templates is fine even for essential apps
<Amaranth> ogra: I need a name better than WillowNG, any ideas? :)
<ogra> i'll ping you if i have one, will think about it 
<cbx33> is this the filtering app?
<ogra> yeps
<cbx33> for parental control?
<ogra> well, for filtering 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ogra thank you so much
<cbx33> for all the help
<cbx33> so really if you package from scratch, 
<cbx33> the diff.tar.gz should have nothing in it
<Amaranth> err
<ogra> the diff.gz should contain the debian dir 
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> i must have done something wrong
<cbx33> mine only had a diff file in it
<cbx33> that would happen if the debian dir was in the orig
<cbx33> but it isn't
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> the diff.gz expands to a diff file
<ogra> dpkg unpacks the orig.tar.gz and then applies the diff.gz to the source dir it unpacked
<ogra> that as well
<cbx33> oh yeh
<cbx33> phew thanks Amaranth 
<cbx33> was worried I'd done itall wrong then
<cbx33> bbl
<cbx33> thanks guys
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<highvoltage> LaserLaserLaser
<highvoltage> JJJOOOCCCKKK
* highvoltage MALFUNCTION
* highvoltage MALFUNCTION
<highvoltage> shew. glad someone pressed my reset button there.
<highvoltage> how are you LaserJock?
<cbx33> forget LaserJock how are you highvoltage 
<cbx33> you seem a little.....hyperactive
<cbx33> Hhhhyyypppeeerrr active
<highvoltage> more or less the same as when you asked me an hour ago, except that i think i'm a bit burned out. which is a bit tough, because i have a lot of work to finish real soon.
<cbx33> hehe
<highvoltage> this has just been a strange week.
* cbx33 has to do some flash work now :(
<highvoltage> i have an intel docstation to optimise nicely with xubuntu, this company wants to roll out 1500 of them like, yesterday.
<highvoltage> then i have another slimline computer that a company wants customised real quick with edubuntu
<Amaranth> champagne problem
<Burgwork> highvoltage, that is terrible problem
<cbx33> wow
* Burgwork wishes he had highvoltage
<cbx33> what company is that??
<Burgwork> s problems
<Amaranth> hehe
<cbx33> yeh I wish i did something useful like that
<highvoltage> cbx33: CSIR South Africa
<highvoltage> (the edubuntu part)
<highvoltage> the company that sells the dotstations is a small local company, Bluechip computers.
<cbx33> cool
<Amaranth> When you start having problems like that it means you're so successful (or in this case ubuntu is) you should pop open a bottle of bubbly. :)
<highvoltage> and then there's more stuff too.. i need to get our ubuntu setup for tuxlabs done, and it doesn't seem like i'll get everything in there that i'd hope to get, which really bums me :(
<highvoltage> Amaranth++ :)
<highvoltage> i'm actually getting to the point where i'm jealous of people without work, because they are capable of taking up all the good opportunities that's coming up
<cbx33> wish i knew some of them highvoltage 
<highvoltage> i hope to be able to go on my own in the next two years and hire one or two people, there's just so many possibilities with OSS at the moment. and more and more things are popping up all the time.
<highvoltage> cbx33: i'm sure you see them too :)
<cbx33> actually I really really don;t
<highvoltage> cbx33: you even mentioned the Ubuntu PC thing earlier today :)
<cbx33> well yeh
<cbx33> but that ones a little too risky
<highvoltage> (although, you need some good seed capital to start something like that)
<highvoltage> it is, yes. you're right.
* cbx33 is beaming
<cbx33> gisomount has been packaged :D
<cbx33> just need to optimise it now
<DanielC> I'm back. Robin wrote to suggest that I run "modprobe pcmcia && modprobe pcmcia-core". I did that, and it worked!!  Suddenly my eth0 is back and I can even get on-line.
<DanielC> Thanks everyone for the help.
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> yeh, thqat was a good suggestion of his
<cbx33> we came up with that just after you left
<cbx33> aaaRRGGHHH i hate working with flash
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<LaserJock> i cbx33 
<LaserJock> hi
<cbx33> hey
<cbx33> guess what
<cbx33> I did it
<cbx33> I packaged it
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> There's some good new additions coming hopefully by the end of tomorrow
<cbx33> that's not so say the beginning aren't there now :D
<MrGreen> Anyone home?
<HedgeMage> I'm here :)
<MrGreen> hi
<HedgeMage> hi there
<MrGreen> wondering if edubuntu will install on an old 500mhz laptop?
<MrGreen> liveCD installer will only work with 192mb ram ....
<MrGreen> think my old lappy has about 64
<HedgeMage> sure, the minimums for a standalone install are 500mhz and 128mb ram
<HedgeMage> hmmm
<MrGreen> go with install cd
<HedgeMage> well, you can install using the text-mode insaller
<MrGreen> ahhh
<MrGreen> ok
<HedgeMage> it'll likely drag if you use gnome though... you might want to consider trying xfce
<HedgeMage> it's not quite as pretty, but it's still fairly easy to use and consumes less ram
<MrGreen> Knoppix / ubuntu would not start
<blue-frog> MrGreen: the only thing you can run with 64meg is a server without guidesktop
<MrGreen> from liveCD
<MrGreen> ;-(
<MrGreen> DSL loaded ok
<blue-frog> anything else on top will make it much too slow
<HedgeMage> liveCDs need tons of ram because they aren't able to use the hard disk
<MrGreen> true
<cbx33> indeed
<MrGreen> Xp (yuk!) is on there atm
<MrGreen> hard disc
<MrGreen> that works (2*yuk!)
<HedgeMage> MrGreen: you could get ubuntu/edubuntu working with major tweaking... but... if you've the tech skills to try it, or want to learn, gentoo would do fine
<blue-frog> must take ages to open anything with xp on 64meg no?
<MrGreen> no seems ok
<MrGreen> not that fast 
<MrGreen> but ok
<HedgeMage> blue-frog: I'm tempted to think that edubuntu with xfce would be fine
<spacey> why not xubuntu?
<MrGreen> who mentioned gentoo ;-(
<MrGreen> lol
<HedgeMage> spacey: that's basically what I suggested :P
<cbx33> MrGreen, any reason it has to be edubuntu?
<MrGreen> for my youngest
<MrGreen> she is 6
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> hmmm
<spacey> i would certainly not suggest gentoo, *especially not* with such crappy specs
<MrGreen> woah!!!
<cbx33> and esp not for a 6 year old :p
<MrGreen> ok
<blue-frog> HedgeMage: i tried some breezy on my old laptop... to come up with soltuion of server only (64 meg)
<cbx33> i had it running respectably on 128
<HedgeMage> spacey: if you tweak it carefully, you can run gentoo on that... it's similar to my last laptop... I distributed compiles over the network though
<MrGreen> DamsSmall loads up fine
<MrGreen> but like you say running from cdrom is slllllooooowwww
<cbx33> yeh
<MrGreen> going to wipe XP ... 
<cbx33> text install is the way to go
<MrGreen> ok will do
<MrGreen> np
<cbx33> ubiquity just won't do it
<MrGreen> I have installed ubuntu dapper a couple times but even on desktop 
<MrGreen> its a slow
<cbx33> MrGreen, really?
<cbx33> what spec
<MrGreen> emmm ....
<MrGreen> amd64 3000+
<cbx33> we had it running find on a PII with 128 Mb RAM
<MrGreen> took about half an hour
<cbx33> MrGreen, you gotta be kidding me? oh to install?
<MrGreen> yup!
<cbx33> but think about just what it's instlaling in that time
<cbx33> companred to XP
<MrGreen> true
<MrGreen> not a problem
<cbx33> you get office suite
<cbx33> etc :p
<MrGreen> think you should be given the option
<MrGreen> after all
<cbx33> for what ?
<cbx33> not installing anything?
<MrGreen> if you just want to install
<MrGreen> text mode
<MrGreen> hope that makes sense
<spacey> MrGreen: then you should use the "alternate" cd
<spacey> thats text
<MrGreen> ok will do
<MrGreen> net install even better lol
<cbx33> if you just want a text based system server is the way to go
<cbx33> true
<MrGreen> I want KDE rofl
<cbx33> nooooooooooooooooooooooO !
<MrGreen> lol
<MrGreen> no waay 
<cbx33> don't start the war
<cbx33> :p
<MrGreen> no no
<MrGreen> Openbox user 
<MrGreen> ;-)
<MrGreen> must say this is a cool channel 
<cbx33> we try
<HedgeMage> thanks :)
<MrGreen> your welcome
<spacey> 18 degrees here
<MrGreen> lol
<cbx33> was 28 in the office today
* MrGreen passes cbx33 an ice cream
<spacey> cant be hot enough :)
<cbx33> ooooh
<cbx33> thanky MrGreen 
<HedgeMage> hehe
<MrGreen> right I'll go install xubuntu on this lappy
<MrGreen> later
<HedgeMage> Hmmm... I have a small but urgent graphics job I need done... tried finding a friend to trade favors with for it, but I now have a deadline so I think I'm going to have to pay to have it done... any clue where I should go?
<cbx33> what do you need
<cbx33> remeber I've done web design and my wife is a free lance designer :p
<cbx33> HedgeMage, ping :p
<HedgeMage> ahh :)
<HedgeMage> country-looking quilt stuff for my mom's web site
<cbx33> got an example?
<HedgeMage> she's going to be in the newspaper next week and I want to finish it so I can give out the URL
<HedgeMage> cbx33: Ummm... lemmee see if i can find something similar
<cbx33> kool
<HedgeMage> grr I hate this laptop
<cbx33> awww
<HedgeMage> cbx33: it's hubbys and it runs windoze which lacks many features I need
<HedgeMage> cbx33: I'm finding stuff that shares one or two qualities with what I want, but nothing that's a good example overall
<cbx33> eeee
<pygi> cbx33, poke :P
<cbx33> peek
<paolo_> ogra, I must redo the remotion of gnome-power-manager for all users, and I can't remember how... could you remember me?
<pygi> cbx33, whats up? :)
<cbx33> just finished packaging gisomount
<cbx33> :)
<ogra> paolo_, move the saved file to /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-power-manager.desktop
<pygi> cbx33, nice ;
<pygi> ;)
<paolo_> ogra, ok, thank you!
* HedgeMage ponders
<ogra> paolo_, for the other problem from #ltsp, could you try creating a new user and check if that happens for him as well ?
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, windows is like that. THere are a few nice features but the basic stuff is maddeningly hard
<paolo_> ogra, thnkx. Is it effective inmediately, or must I restart something?
<highvoltage> battery... dying...
<Burgwork> paolo_, log out and back in
<ogra> should work immediately
<Burgwork> ogra, seriously? I have never found that
<ogra> yeah, for new logged in users :)
<Burgwork> ah, yes
<HedgeMage> Burgwork: what kind of person only needs one desktop?  I had to install a seperate program just to SSH !  it's maddening
<paolo_> ogra, what ltsp problem are you thinking?
<ogra> paolo_, the one you just asked about in the #ltsp channel :)
<Burgwork> HedgeMage, the list is goes one
<HedgeMage> Burgwork you mean it goes on?
<paolo_> ogra, I didn't enter the #ltsp channel today, nor in the last 2 months
<HedgeMage> in that case, yes, you're right.
<Burgwork> yep
<ogra> paolo_, lol, right, there is a guy called pablo_ asking about ubuntu ltsp, my mistake, sorry :)
<paolo_> ogra, :-)
<cbx33> hi pygi sorry phone went
<cbx33> twas me dear old mum
<cbx33> bbl
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> moms are cool
<LaserJock> my mom doesn't call me really anymore :(
<LaserJock> I'm not sure why
<pygi> cbx33, no worries ;)
<HedgeMage> my mom freaks out if I don't call her, but she calls me at least every week anyway
<pygi> hey HedgeMage ;)
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<cbx33> bbl
<pygi> why are only few applications visible on code.google.com/soc? :-/
<LaserJock> cya cbx33 
<cbx33> LaserJock, hiya
<LaserJock> hi
<cbx33> just popping back cos I saw you there :p
<cbx33> I packaged and it worked
<cbx33> I'll tell you more later
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> cool
<cbx33> bbl
<LaserJock> k
<cbx33> pull the latest version
<cbx33> checkout the info button
<cbx33> going to be a good addition
<cbx33> not finsihed yet
<cbx33> bbl
<pygi> o joy, bass guitars with 5 strings :-/
<LaserJock> don't most bass guitars have 5 strings?
<pygi> LaserJock, 4 strings :P
<LaserJock> oh
<pygi> Also just found a guitar with 12 strings :) (altought I knew it exists)
<LaserJock> yeah, my some of my friends love 12 string guitars
<pygi> I like regular ones, with 6 strings :P
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
<pygi> bye
<cbx33> pygi, I agree with you on the 6 strings
<HedgeMage> I haven't pulled out my guitar in too long...
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 should play again
<cbx33> sounds like we could have an edubuntu band
* cbx33 plays drums too
<cbx33> ping LaserJock 
<cbx33> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<cbx33> right I'm off again for a while guys
<cbx33> probably be back soon
<bddebian> Hi folks
<bddebian> Later cbx33
<LaserJock> cbx33: dude, you're only around for a few minutes at a time
<LaserJock> cbx33: I can't keep up with you :-)
<HedgeMage> lol
<cbx33> sorr LaserJock been busy today
<Amaranth> so i'm going buzzword crazy
<cbx33> Amaranth, thought of a name yet
<Amaranth> the proxy is going to use sqlite for storage and communicate with the GUI over dbus
* cbx33 thought of loads but google told me otherwise
<Amaranth> nope
<cbx33> right I'm off, sorry LaserJock we'll have to chat over weekend ;P
<Burgwork> Amaranth, you got any managed code in that there proxy?
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> it's python ;)
<Burgwork> how about an ajax front end to manage it?
<Amaranth> all i need now is a Web 2.0 admin interface and i'm fully buzzword compliant
<Amaranth> hehe
<Burgwork> anyway to work XGL in there?
<Amaranth> the GUI could do some composite tricks ;)
<spacey> Amaranth: what are you working on?
<Amaranth> spacey: content filtering proxy
<spacey> willow?
<Burgwork> Amaranth, with dbus, is there a way to communicate with the system bus on another machien?
<Amaranth> ditched willow, doing my own
<Amaranth> Burgwork: i don't think so
<Amaranth> that's what the web interface is for
<Burgwork> ah
<spacey> Amaranth: oh, ok.
<Burgwork> Amaranth, can yer get it packaged and avaible for edgy soonish?
<spacey> Amaranth: using the same algorithm? or different way?
<Amaranth> spacey: it's still using bayesian filtering
<Amaranth> Burgwork: not likely
<spacey> Amaranth: ok thats great
<Amaranth> Burgwork: maybe in a 3-4 weeks
<Burgwork> ok
<spacey> willows code just sucked ass? or why did you decide to write your own?
<Amaranth> spacey: willow's code was pretty bad
<Amaranth> and had license issues
<spacey> you mean the profiler stuff
<Amaranth> and i remade the regular proxy part in about 100 lines of code
<Amaranth> no, worse than that
<Amaranth> lots of magic
<spacey> ~magic~
<spacey> :)
<spacey> Amaranth: if you have some beta up i would like to test it:)
<spacey> willow has some terrible bugs
<Amaranth> right now i'm trying to figure out a way to only queue HTML and text and send everything else straight through (as long as it passes the domain filter)
<Amaranth> so you don't sit waiting for a 20MB download to download completely in the proxy, then get sent to you
<spacey> thats nice
<Amaranth> anyone have an open DNS server i can use? my ISP's just died
#edubuntu 2006-06-09
<RobinShepheard> greetings all
<Amaranth> nm
<LaserJock> hi RobinShepheard 
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> hi, all
<LaserJock> hi HedgeMage 
<bddebian> Hi HedgeMage
<LaserJock> ogra: CD diet, lol
<ogra> :)
<HedgeMage> :)
<opitwin> How do the games work in Edubuntu?
<opitwin> Do they work good?
<opitwin> Are they good for kids?
<bddebian> Yes
<opitwin> bddebian: Do they have good graphical layout?
<ogra> opitwin, just grab a liveCD and test it out ;)
<mhz> ogra: hi
<opitwin> ogra: I'll do that
<mhz> ogra: the setting of keyboards did work, so did the 'sesion' manager. Thx.
<mhz> ogra: however, I have noticed this issue twice:
<mhz> Clients do turn the server off :(
<bddebian> Heya ogra
<ogra> mhz, yes, thats an xfce bug they didnt address for dapper
<ogra> hi bddebian 
<mhz> ogra: hmmm, they were in gnome :(
<mhz> oh, you mean, it overrides defaults?
<bddebian> ogra: Do you have a second for a /query?
<LaserJock> ogra: those LTSP specs are looking nice!
<cbx33> wiki wiki wah, good mornin all
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> you're still awake?
<LaserJock> for a sec
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> sorry about last night
<LaserJock> it's really only 10:10 here
<LaserJock> but the wife says it's time fore bed
<LaserJock> I"m actually looking at gisomount
<cbx33> well that's what happened yesterday
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> oooooh
<cbx33> looking good?
<LaserJock> and reading pygtk tutorial
<cbx33> oh wow
<cbx33> excellent
<LaserJock> well, I don't know any gtk so it's greek to me ;-)
<cbx33> i managed to package it up, so that it installs properly ;p
<cbx33> pygtk is EASY trust me
<cbx33> ther reference section of the docs
<cbx33> is particularly helpful
<cbx33> the most rouble Ive had so far was with the treeview widget in the info window
<LaserJock> <-bed time
<LaserJock> sorry, I'll talk to you in the morning
<cbx33> well, when the missus says jump
<cbx33> you gotta jump
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* HedgeMage peeks in
<crimsun_> (yep, crickets)
<HedgeMage> heh
* HedgeMage watches t-bird recompile
* HedgeMage watches her fingernails grow
<spacey> thunderbird?
* HedgeMage nods
<HedgeMage> (on my gentoo box)
<HedgeMage> my edubuntu lappy is in need of medical attention
<spacey> thunderbird is in the top of my most hated apps (that i use)
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> it has a few features I'm addicted to
<HedgeMage> I really need to start distributing these compiles over the network again
<crimsun_> good ole ccache+distcc
<HedgeMage> :D
<HedgeMage> just a few more packages and I'm done... yay!
<cbx33> mornin all !
<HedgeMage> hey, cbx33 
<cbx33> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> cbx33: may I /msg you?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> mornin pygi
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> howz it going
<cbx33> when did you say the scp meet was?
<pygi> cbx33, next week, not yet sure when
<pygi> when would you like it to be be?
<cbx33> are you good for 20:00 UTC ish?
<pygi> that's good, what day?
<cbx33> hmmm dunno
<pygi> We have cookbook stuff tuesday
<cbx33> right yes
<cbx33> what time?
<pygi> 20:00 UTC :P
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> i shuld be ok for those next week
<pygi> hm, what about monday 20:00 UTC?
<cbx33> hmm....should be ok
<pygi> oki :)
<cbx33> we'll see if ogra is av ailable for that to
<pygi> indeed
<spacey> cookbook stuff today?
<spacey> uh
<spacey> tuesday
<HedgeMage> yep, tuesday
<spacey> pygi: you should announce that on list or something
* HedgeMage seconds that
<pygi> hey HedgeMage 
<spacey> its quite hard to stay involved without reading it on irc accidently 
<HedgeMage> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey HedgeMage 
<RobinShepheard> hello all
<HedgeMage> hi RobinShepheard 
<pygi> spacey, I am not sure how will we go with this cookbook stuff, but sure, I'll announce
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: Hiya
<HedgeMage> pygi: good thing you set the cookbook meeting for Tuesday, I'm going to be useless until then... had an urgent project come up
<pygi> HedgeMage, no worries ;)
<RobinShepheard> Anybody mind if I join you for the cookbook meeting
<cbx33> no sure
<cbx33> would be great RobinShepheard 
<RobinShepheard> what channel will the meeting be on??
<pygi> RobinShepheard, some which we'll create probably
<RobinShepheard> ahh, will you let us know via this channel or will it be sent by email??
<RobinShepheard> email = dev list
<pygi> RobinShepheard, mail
<pygi> I'll be writing it now
<RobinShepheard> cool, good enough
<pygi> o yes, we have ubuntu-cookbook channel registered :)
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> I can't join it here
<cbx33> but I can at home :p
<RobinShepheard> just wanted to check as I have never work like this before, I am a bit of a newbie when ir comes to things like this
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: it's great working like this
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> what was the overall feel
<pygi> cbx33, we must get complete chapters layout at the meeting tuesday
<cbx33> from hte lug
<cbx33> pygi: i agree
<cbx33> and it's going to be bigger
<cbx33> MUCH bigger :p
<pygi> cbx33, indeed, considering we are to publish it :P
<cbx33> i can see it
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: well, most seemed to be fairly supportive in principal but no one really commited as yet as they thought we should try to tap mark shuttleworth/cononical first
<cbx33> of course
<jsgotangco> :/
<cbx33> that's my next stop
<cbx33> now that the dapper frenzy has quietened down
<pygi> raekism, this book is great accomplishment anyway
<pygi> ergh, RobinShepheard *
<cbx33> I'll be finishing up the proposal
<jsgotangco> so its all about funding then eh?
<pygi> jsgotangco, nothing is about funding
<cbx33> jsgotangco: mostly yeh
<pygi> cbx33, ergh, why is that?
<jsgotangco> HAH
<RobinShepheard> pygi: you lost me with the ergh
<jsgotangco> you don't need funding to publish just do it with lulu
<cbx33> sorry we're talking at cross purposes
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: no we are on about the BETT2006 show
<jsgotangco> ahh that's different
<cbx33> 2007 :p
<jsgotangco> feel free to ask canonical for sponsorship =)
<cbx33> else we need to invent a time machine first
<cbx33> jsgotangco: that's the plan but we need a watertight proposal first
<jsgotangco> feel free to register the time machine product in LP
<jsgotangco> =)
<RobinShepheard> what can I say, I am still lcaking in coffee this morning, got in the office and have been ponced upon, I shall be back in a mo, just going to get caffeine dose :)
<HedgeMage> night night all
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> horayy another 4AM meeting for me
<pygi> jsgotangco, hm? :)
<pygi> the cookbook?
<jsgotangco> yes =_
<pygi> ah, sorry about that :-/
<jsgotangco> no worries, I just say to myself i live in the wrong timezone
<jsgotangco> =)
<cbx33> sorry jsgotangco 
<cbx33> I'm ok to reschedule
<jsgotangco> nah don't think about me
* jsgotangco lives in the future
<pygi> eh :-/
<pygi> cbx33, how's python? :)
<RobinShepheard> HedgeMage: night night
<RobinShepheard> pygi: Just got the emails with the meeting details in, cheers
<cbx33> pygi: really good
<cbx33> managed to get treeviews working
<pygi> cbx33, congrats ;)
<cbx33> broke some functions out of some classes to neaten up today :D
<cbx33> yeh they're not too bad once you get to know them
<cbx33> pygi: can i ask you opinion
<cbx33> we want to make it so that when we click a button it opens the mounted folder in something like nautilius
<cbx33> but what if the user doesn't have nautilius
<cbx33> i know we're writing fro ubuntu but I'd like it to be portable
<pygi> ergh, every gnome installation has nautilus? :)
<cbx33> yeh but what about kde users
<pygi> well, you'll have a different UI for KDE,and you could add-in functionality needed for kde in backend
<cbx33> can kde not use gnome libs like gnome can with kde?
<pygi> well, it can, but then it would mean you need gnome libs on KDE
<pygi> not many people are willing to do that
<cbx33> right ok
<pygi> talk to you later
<cbx33> thanks pygi 
<cbx33> i was gonna put it in the packager that would do an auto config
<pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)
<pygi> highvoltage, you around?
<highvoltage> pygi: yep
<pygi> who's gonna implement that xfce for Edubuntu?
<ogra> pygi, *somebody* :)
<pygi> ogra, hehe, nice ;)
<pygi> basicly, it needs to use existing package, and overwrite configuration with our custom one, right?
<ogra> well, first we should decide if its feasable at all, then we need to look if we want xubuntu or just plain tweaked xfce ... 
<ogra> there are a lot of variables that first need the BOF discussion at the summit
<pygi> Why not blackbox desktop? Even more lighter then xfce ;)
<pygi> Yup, indeed
<highvoltage> blackbox isn't developed upstream anymore
<ogra> usually spces are not assigned to somebody for implementation before they are written :)
<ogra> *specs
<pygi> highvoltage, ergh, why is that :P
<highvoltage> fluxbox isn't very intuitive, and would need plenty of plugins and work before being user friednly to the level that Xfce and Gnome are.
<pygi> ogra, I saw a written spec, but yes, discussion is needed :)
<ogra> we could switch ti ion3 
<ogra> pygi, where on the wiki did you see such a spec ? 
<pygi> nowhere on wiki :)
<ogra> you see :)
<ogra> all we currently have are drafts and a summary on the spec tracker ... 
<pygi> hehe :)
<ogra> the implementation details will be in the wikipage
<pygi> 'fcorse, as always :)
<ogra> and only if the wikipage got signed off by the reviewers we'll have a spec
<ogra> after the summit we have a big pot full with specs that then get assigned to their implementers 
<ogra> (indeed if you propose a spec and work on it from the beginning its liekly that you also are the implementer)
<ogra> but thats not mandatory
<cbx33> ogra: who picks implementors?
<ogra> last time assignment was done by mdz and JaneW for the specs that had no self appointed implementors
<cbx33> i see
<cbx33> and they'd pick on people they knew could do the task :p
<cbx33> cool
<pygi> cbx33, you wanna implement something? :)
<cbx33> pygi: I'd love to
<cbx33> but not sure I'm up to that level yet
<cbx33> I'll be helping all I can on scp though
<pygi> ofcourse :)
<pygi> ogra is assignee on s-c-p spec :)
<pygi> so he implements it, and we watch from side :0
<pygi> :)
<ogra> :P
<ogra> surely not
<ogra> i'll maintain the branch, review the patches and might care for the packaging ... implementation can be done by others :)
<pygi> ergh :P
<ogra> ergh ? 
<pygi> nothing, don't worry :)
<ogra> just say if you think something is wrong with that 
<pygi> just joking around while resting from that Diva stuff, no worries :)
<ogra> oki :)
<pygi> There is a release scheduled for today I think :P
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> nice
<pygi> ogra, about replacing kdeedu with gnome apps, can't we just find people willing to do some porting, or write some educational applications?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I'm sure some people wil be willing to help out there
<ogra> "some porting" 
<cbx33> I'll do what I can
<ogra> HA HA HA
<pygi> ogra, just you laugh :)
* cbx33 was thinking or writing some educational apps 
<ogra> did you ever prot a kde app to gnome ? 
<ogra> *port as well
<pygi> once, yes :)
<pygi> Not very big one tho :)
<ogra> i think we wont get around rewrites ... 
<cbx33> me either
<ogra> but if there are apps with data (like a vocabulary trainer), we should reuse the data
<cbx33> of course
<pygi> Agreed
<ogra> (which again implies to have kdeedu langpacks)
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> KBruch wouldn't take much rewriting
<cbx33> hey Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day cbx33
<DanielC> Does anyone know of a web page explaining the difference between "virtual size" (memory) and "resident size"? Also an description of the stack vs data parts of VM, etc. I used to know this, but I studied it several years ago.
<cbx33> wikipedia?
<DanielC> tried that :(
<Yagisan> DanielC: virtual size = how much ram the app allocated, resident size = how much its actually using (very simplified)
<Yagisan> cbx33: did you ever run reportbug deng ?
<cbx33> I'll do it when I et home
<cbx33> playing doom II now
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian, jsgotangco
<cbx33> hiya bddebian 
<Yagisan> cbx33: nice isn't it :)
<cbx33> yeh
<jsgotangco> g'day mate
<Yagisan> had a bit of a drama tonight
<Yagisan> my daughters hand got caught in the lift doors at the train station
<cbx33> oh?
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan, cbx33, jsgotangco
<cbx33> oh no
<cbx33> is she ok?
<Yagisan> had to force it open
<DanielC> Yagisan: So both VSZ and RSS cover both the stack and the application data? (e.g. if we're talking about firefox it'd include both Firefox itself and the HTML page you have in open). Right?
<Yagisan> she got cut, and has a swollen hand, but I got there in time to prevent her fingers from being broken
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: Has your machine stayed fix after a reboot??
<Yagisan> DanielC: yes
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: I haven't rebooted it, I should try that.
<DanielC> Yagisan: thanks
* DanielC reboots his laptop
<Yagisan> DanielC: no worries
<cbx33> phew...good going Yagisan 
<Yagisan> yeah, they are big heavy doors, and the gap is just big enough for a 2 year old to get her fingers in
<Yagisan> she touched the door while it was moving, and it just sucked her hand straight in
<bddebian> Ugh :-(
<DanielC> Yagisan: She going to be alright?
<Yagisan> I'll take her to the doctor tomorrow morning, but she seems ok.
<Yagisan> It's amazing how strong a geek can be when they have to be
<Yagisan> we use a variety of different video cards here ?
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: It doesn't work after a reboot. But running modprobe again fixes it. I guess I should add modprobe to one of the init scripts. Any idea which one?
<Yagisan> I would appreciate some assistance. I'm trying to get some opengl info from a wide variety of cards for a project.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: If you add the pcmcia and pcmcia-core into /etc/modules they should load by default on boot
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I have an ATI mobility 9000
<cbx33> Yagisan: I'd help if I knew something
<Yagisan> If you don't mind, could you run 'glxinfo -l > opengl.txt' and email or dcc it to me
<cbx33> what can I do
<cbx33> Us geeks have super powers
* DanielC doesn't know what video card he has.
<DanielC> I have on-board video.
<Yagisan> DanielC: doesn't matter. the command will identify it
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: what email address do you want it sent to??
<Yagisan> jamie_jones_au@yahoo.com.au
<cbx33> already sent
<Yagisan> thanks guys. it will help tracking down many "graphics look strange" issues I'm working on
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: arrival imminent
<cbx33> sent another one too Yagisan 
<DanielC> Yagisan: I just sent the results for my desktop and my laptop.
<cbx33> RobinShepheard: i see your post about AD authentication
<Yagisan> excellent. thanks guys. a quick glance at some of the emails that have already arrived is very enlightening
<cbx33> mind if I use it as backup that AD authentication would be great for edgy
<DanielC> AD == Active Directory?  If so, I would love to have that on Edubuntu LTSP. So that the students could access their Windows files from the Linux thin clients.
<cbx33> DanielC: I'm working on it
<cbx33> I have it working
<DanielC> You rock man :)
<cbx33> but, not over graphical login
<DanielC> ah
<cbx33> there are some things that need ironing out
<ogra> note that AD auth is a part of the network authentication SoC project
<cbx33> oh is it?
<ogra> so we'll get it anyway from ubuntu
<cbx33> will it work with LTSP
<cbx33> that's my problem
<ogra> why shouldnt it ? 
<cbx33> well, actually I lie
<cbx33> I have it working on text mode 
<cbx33> just people can't login via the gui
<cbx33> because as they are logging in, it's setting up their home dir to be the network share
<cbx33> so that even their linux home dir is stroed on the windows file server
<cbx33> but it's proving to have som dificulties, and I'm not sure why
<cbx33> but if it's an SoC project I'll wait and see what happens with that
<cbx33> authentication is EASY
<ogra> well, i'm not sure the network auth spec covers mounting homedirs
<cbx33> it's home dir mapping that screws it up
<cbx33> for some reason, gnome just doesn't like it, I've forgotten a lot of what I did, but locking of files was a problem
<cbx33> gnome wanted to lock a file and you can't do that over smbfs/cifs
<cbx33> but i got round that, by making the lock file get stored on the local machine
<cbx33> but there was another issue
<cbx33> I'll look at it on monday and see if I can let you jknow what I did
<ogra> tell your findings to ajmich, he's working on the SoC implementation
<cbx33> oh ok
<ogra> i think Mithrandir is his mentor
* jsgotangco peeks in
<cbx33> ok
<DanielC> cbx33: Putting /home/* in the Windows server would be a problem. It's not just Gnome. Firefox and OpenOffice will lock files (I think).
<cbx33> hmmm possibly
<RobinShepheard> cbx33: you could possibly get round the locking, by using unix services under windows and share with nfs
<RobinShepheard> homes shares over nfs are sound, I have used them here
<RobinShepheard> but you must mount them with fstab
<RobinShepheard> well , i say must it seemed to work best
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> mqaybe I'll investigate that
<cbx33> I'll let you guys know what I find
<cbx33> on the whole though the authenticatino is weasy
<cbx33> see you guys soon
* jsgotangco just discovered the wonder that is Amarula
<Yagisan> sorry - had to run out. daughters hand was hurting again
<Yagisan> damm
<Yagisan> I was about to say, IIRC samba supports locking
<Yagisan> oh well. he'll be back later. hopefully I'll remember to tell him
<pygi> Yagisan, I hope your daughter is all right :)
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: so what is amarula??
<jsgotangco> this wonderful liqueur from south africa
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I must admit I thought it did as well, but I know nfs does
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: bit tasty is it??? I have never gotten around to trying it
<jsgotangco> its has a hint of caramel
<RobinShepheard> I seem to remeber someone mixing it with milk but not quite sure
<RobinShepheard> *remember
<ogra> doesnt it have enough cream already ?
<jsgotangco> its like bailey's but not that sweet
<RobinShepheard> sounds pretty good to me
* spacey likes kalua + vodka + milk + ice
<Yagisan> pygi: thanks mate. she's going to sleep now, but her hand is a bit of a mess. it was her right hand, so when she tries to pick things up etc, she cries out in pain.
<RobinShepheard> spacey: thank you, I thought I remembered someone mixing it with milk
<pygi> Yagisan, ugh :(
<spacey> RobinShepheard: i don't know amarula
<spacey> what i descibed is called a "white russian".
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: poor kid, she has my sympathy
<spacey> watch the movie "The Big Lebowski" and you will know :)
<RobinShepheard> sorry my mistake spacey
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: when I last deployed it I'm sure samba did, but since then I've become an all Ubuntu shop (well mostly - some boxes run my custom Ubuntu work)
<RobinShepheard> not paying enough attention
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I am in the process of trying to get the authentication handled by our win2k3 servers as it will be easier to persuade people it is so little work to get into the local schools
<RobinShepheard> Most of them have windows domains for authentication already, then just gradually move bits over a part at a time untill......
<RobinShepheard> all linux
<Yagisan> ah, I'm smaller. I did the radical thing - wiped the lot
<Yagisan> shoved debian on, then worked out what was missing
<Yagisan> changed to ubuntu around hoary
<DanielC> Should I make the swap partition the first partition or the last?
<Yagisan> DanielC: old (pre 1999) or new pc ?
<DanielC> new
<ogra> put it in the middle
<DanielC> Ok.
<Yagisan> DanielC: doesn't matter. to much. middle = less seeks, front = faster read
<ogra> since its likely that the head moves between the other partitions, it can write to the swap space while moving between them
<ogra> (if you put it in the middle)
<DanielC> This will be a RAID1 if that makes any difference.
<ogra> swap is only a safety net anyway
<DanielC> The disks are 80GB. I don't see the pupils using a lot of disk space. But the system shouldn't grow much either (right?). So I guess it doesn't really matter how I set it up.
<ogra> it will make the server very slow if it starts swapping, but at least you'll have te opportunity to saver open documents
<ogra> *save
<Yagisan> I use swap as a backing store for tmpfs
<DanielC> Maybe I'll do this: 10GB (/home) -> 2GB (swap) -> 72GB (/)
<ogra> erm, why would you want 72GB for / ?
<ogra> i'd flip that
<DanielC> I don't know what to do with all the space.
<ogra> 72GB (/home) -> 2GB (swap) -> 10GB (/)
<DanielC> Ok.
<DanielC> In that order?
<ogra> your users will fill /home, dont worry ;)
<ogra> i dont think that order really matters if you run RAID
<DanielC> Some people recommend making /boot a 50MB partition, but I don't see how that can really help.
<Yagisan> hmm. might get a microscopic speed increase if the position of / and home is swapped
<ogra> at least it wont have noticeable effects ...
<ogra> (probably measurable, but well)
<DanielC> Ok, so it won't be noticeable.
<Yagisan> DanielC: older pcs canit boot if the boot files are located past certain points on the disk
<Yagisan> s/canit/can't
<Yagisan> I have a separate /boot on ext2, while the rest of my system is jfs
<DanielC> Yagisan: Ok. So the 50MB /boot partition is only for old PCs.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: only hting that may be adding as a partition is /var as all your logs are stored there, and in theory could fill the disk
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: Ok. How much would you allocate for logs?
<DanielC> With today's disks I seriously don't know what to do with the space.
<RobinShepheard> I well I use 5Gb as it is more than enough but means it cant overflow if you get a ddos or anything like that
<ogra> well, i'd just let logrotate do its work :)
<Yagisan> DanielC: I'll paste my partition setup for you to look at as a guide in a pastebin
<RobinShepheard> ogra: I always figure better safe than sorry
<DanielC> Yagisan: thanks
<ogra> RobinShepheard, sure ... but usually logrotate should suffice (unless you have evil users doing weird stuff that populates the logs)
<RobinShepheard> ogra: it is a school, I remember what I was like at school
<RobinShepheard> we changed novell addresses so we could play games and all sorts of things, I would have hated to have to check the log files
<RobinShepheard> all the addresses where on a map, so they would see what was running on each address then rollock the person at that point on the map
<RobinShepheard> just we weren't there, we had swapped with another workstation on the opposite side of the room
<DanielC> Does it really matter what filesystem I pick? I plan to just go for ext3.
<Yagisan> DanielC: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15399
<DanielC> *click*
<RobinShepheard> ext3 is great for recovery because of the journal, I don't really think that the speed difference is really noticeable between filesystems, but there is the thought of the number of files
<Yagisan> DanielC: it can. what is the systems role ?
<jsgotangco> hmmm germany vs. costa rica
<DanielC> Edubuntu server.
<ogra> ltsp server i guess
<DanielC> Yes. Edubuntu LTSP seve with 15-20 thin clients.
<ogra> ext3 isnt very fast but very reliable
<RobinShepheard> ext systems have a finite amount of inodes, so can only hold that number of files, where as reiser and others use a btree system so are not limited
<DanielC> I've never seen anyone run out of inodes :)
<dan_young> ext3 is bulletproof; I'd use it unless you've got a good reason not to...
<Yagisan> DanielC: ext3 would be a fine choice. ignore claims it's not fast - on a general purpose system ext3 is just behind jfs and xfs in average speed.
<RobinShepheard> I use ext3 as I don't reckon I will hit the file limit, but as a server in a school i dont know, I am not sure what the max number is
<Yagisan> reiserfs is good for lots of small files, but delete speed is dog slow
<DanielC> Ok. Stability is important to me (not that the system is critical - I just like stability). I'll go for ext3.
<DanielC> Thanks for the help.
<Yagisan> jfs and xfs are roughly same speedwise, but jfs has less cpu overhead
* ogra wouldnt touch reiser, not even with a loong stick
* Yagisan has reserfs 3 on www, jfs on dev box, and ext3 on workstations
<Yagisan> it eat your data ogra ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but it ate whole companies i knew back when SuSE defaulted their first release on reiser
<Yagisan> ogra: then you have missed out on the essential reiserfs experience
<Yagisan> 3.6 is ok now. won't go to 4 though.
<ogra> since that time i have a lot respect for hans reiser and his work on unstable filesystems he tends to call stable
<ogra> especuially since you dont need to zero out the partition after it wiped itself ... a really handy feature if you have to reinstall everything on ext3 afterwards
<ogra> (not that i would want to sound bitter or something :) )
<Yagisan> after my next full www backup, I'll try an in-place conversion to ext3
<DanielC> For a RAID-1 do the disks have to be identical? Can I have one 80GB disk and one 82GB disk and just forget about the last 2GB?
<Yagisan> DanielC: linux raid ? no. fake raid, or real hardware raid ? yes
<DanielC> :(
<jsgotangco> ogra: have you gotten time to read the specs on amenity and pike (or SoC quiz project)
<DanielC> I was thinking of the RAID option that comes with Edubuntu, so that's Linxu raid.
<Yagisan> DanielC: linux raid is a) faster and b) more reliable then bios fakeraid
<Yagisan> DanielC: notice something about my setup ? the disk types ?
<DanielC> Yagisan: How similar do the disks have to be? Do they have to be identical or just the same size? (is it even possible to find two identical disks)
<DanielC> Yagisan: I see several "Linux raid auto" entries.
<dan_young> DanielC: for software RAID, you just need partitions of the same size; the disks don't matter...
<Yagisan> DanielC: edubuntu raid = linux raid. the disks just need the same size partition
<DanielC> Ok, but that's just the partition, not the disk, right?
<Yagisan> DanielC: I have a mixture of IDE and SATA drives
<Yagisan> DanielC: I could raid together gmailfs and usb sticks if the partitions are the same size on linux
<DanielC> :)
<DanielC> Thanks for the info.
<Yagisan> hmm. gmailfs + 300 invites + linux raid. could be fun
<ogra> jsgotangco, nope, not yet, do you have a link ?
<jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-amenity
<ogra> thanks
<jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-pike
<ogra> wow, nice mockups
<jsgotangco> yes we worked on it last weekend
<pygi> jsgotangco, yup, nice mockups indeed
<ogra> pygi, do you thing tuesday 20:00 UTC is really a good time for a meeting ? its very likely that CC is at the same time
<pygi> ogra, that will not be on #u-m anyway, but if you think we should change it...
<ogra> well, it gets a bit busy to attend both
<pygi> I am willing to do so :)
<pygi> oki, monday fine for s-c-p then and saturday for cookbook?
<pygi> ergh
<pygi> wednesday
<ogra> i'm fine with either ... just make sure to not clash with other meetings
<pygi> oki
<pygi> ogra, ergh, xubuntu  meeting is wednesday
<ogra> the whole day ?
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> hey you're talking to super mario
* jsgotangco hides
<pygi> ogra, ah :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: ok so going back, are you the one approving this or i am expected to do so?
<ogra> jsgotangco, approving for what ? 
<ogra> do you want to discuss it in paris ? 
<jsgotangco> well it is an Edubuntu SoC project
<ogra> yes, but you are the mentor, feel free to decide yourself, i trus your judgement
<ogra> *trust as well
<LaserJock> pygi: why are all these meetings in different channels?
<pygi> LaserJock, because it's nothing officialy and not many people will attend it
<LaserJock> so why not do it here for everybody to see ;-)
<pygi> last time we held cookbook meeting in #u-m and we got thousand of trolls
<pygi> ok, you go ahead and suggest that on the list if you want :P
<pygi> We already have registered #ubuntu-cookbook channel ages ago :)
<jsgotangco> heh but we have the logbot here
<LaserJock> right
<ogra> yeps
<LaserJock> is it really Ubuntu and not Edubuntu?
<ogra> i agree, that we should have meetings in the official channels
<pygi> ok, ok, go ahead and suggest that on the list Laser ;)
<pygi> LaserJock, it is edubuntu :)
<LaserJock> ok, that confused me
<LaserJock> I thought you were starting an Ubuntu cookbook
<pygi> hehe :)
<LaserJock> I thought you were just being ambitious :-)
<pygi> LaserJock, I'll write to the list that we can hold meeting here
<pygi> hehe, wait, there is time for ubuntu cookbook as well :)
<pygi> xubuntu, and kubuntu one as well, while we're at it :)
<jsgotangco> good night
<pygi> ogra, ofcourse, we will
<pygi> it's now scheduled to be in #edubuntu
<pygi> I don't know how to post to fridge just yet tho, so I'll poke someone to do it :)
<ogra> pygi, not #edubuntu :)
<ogra> but ext time
<ogra> *next
<pygi> yes, next time will be #ubuntu-meeting with fridge, and stuff :P
<pygi> ogra, omg, why not #edubuntu now? :P
<ogra> if i ask you about something regarding S-C-P in 8 months and you tell me "but we decided about it in this or that meeting" i want to be able to find it in the #ubuntu-meeting logs without having to dig my way through "where did we hold that meeting ?"
<ogra> thats the purpose of #ubuntu-meeting, for the whole of all ubuntu distros ...
<pygi> indeed, but I don't know how to register meeting for that stuff in fridge
<ogra> you mail fridge-devel i think
<ogra> jdub or whiprush will know 
<ogra> (they run the fridge)
<pygi> so I am supposed to change the meetings to #ubuntu-meeting now, right?
<pygi> ok, I'll talk with jdub
<pygi> thanks :)
<ogra> for the future meetings, yes
<ogra> for now leave it as is ...
<pygi> ok
<pygi> sorry about that :-/
<ogra> dont worry :)
<pygi> :)
<DanielC> Hmm... is the screen supposed to go black half-way through the LTSP configuration?
<DanielC> It sure looks like the installer just crashed.
<ogra> yes, its supposed to
<DanielC> Why does the screen go black? It looks like it died. Especially since that step takes several minutes.
<ogra> the xserver package does its autoconfig magic even thats not needed on thin clients because its repeated on bootup for them
<DanielC> Ok. So I can cross my fingers and hope that it comes back up later.
<ogra> i'll look into that, we can probably add a preseed option to the package to skip that 
<ogra> it usually comes back within a second
<DanielC> Oh, it's been a lot more than a second. I'm talking 10min and counting.
<DanielC> I hear the disk spinning, so it's doing something.
<ogra> it only starts the X server and waits for it to exit again to determine the valuews for the currently connected monitor and graphics card
<DanielC> Still not back on. It's been another 5min. I hear the disk spinning, but there's noting on the screen.
<DanielC> It looks like it's dead.
<DanielC> This happened yesterday too (same computer).
<DanielC> Yesterday I ended up just doing a hard power off.
<ogra> looks like your graphics card does something weird then ...
<DanielC> Possible. But if this box worked with Edubuntu Breezy, why would it not work with Edubuntu Dapper?
<DanielC> If it worked before, then it looks like a problem with Dapper.
<DanielC> I can also boot a Dapper LiveCD into this computer.
<ogra> do you happen to have a liveCD around to check if it happes theer as well ? 
<ogra> that was my question :)
<DanielC> :)
<ogra> hmm, then its very strange, since the initial xorg setup doesnt differ from the liveCD
<DanielC> LiveCD works fine (tired yesterday).
<ogra> and the packages are identical
<DanielC> :(
<ogra> the only idea i have now would be to install the workstation version, install edubuntu-server on top and run sudo ltsp-build-client manually
<DanielC> Ok, I can try that.
<ogra> if you do: sudo mount /cdrom before, you can use sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
<DanielC> ok
<ogra> instead of having it downloading half the world
* DanielC reboots the computer
<sbartleylinux> ogra: Hey there.  Is there a way to disable the "Hybernate" button from displaying when a thin client quits?
<bundat> hey
<ogra> sbartleylinux, try setting /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate to false
<sbartleylinux> ogra: thx. will do.
<sbartleylinux> ogra: hmmm.  k.  Where do I do that?
<ogra> in gconf.-editor
<ogra> s/.//
<sbartleylinux> k
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ok.  So, that makes it so that by user, the button does not get displayed.  Is there a way to specify so that it knows that if it is a thin client, regardless of user, to not display?
<sbartleylinux> ogra: in other words, we see that when the client exits, it does not show the shutdown or restart buttons, but is still showing hibernate.  We are trying to figure out how to make it not show hibernate on any thin client to prevent the issue of a user on a thin client hibernating the server.
<bundat> is anyone here using edubuntu on a p3 600mhz or lower?
<Yagisan> bundat: client or server ?
<bundat> the live cd. ver 606.
<bundat> i just want to know how it is, performance wise.
<bundat> i tried ubuntu breezy and it was slow.
<Yagisan> bundat: oh. no then. 750Mhz is the slowest server I've tried on, 233Mhz slowest client
<bundat> p3 557mhz /128mb ram.
<bundat> p3 667 i mean
<Yagisan> bundat: you have a lack of ram. xubuntu may be quicker
<bundat> how was it on the 233mhz pc?
<bundat> how much ram do you have on that 233mhz?
<Yagisan> bundat: 256MB. works ok. bit slow at times when launching an app. faster as a thin client, so that's what it boots to by default, but I left a disk in for when I want to run local apps
<bundat> ok. i just finished the burning the iso. thanks yagisan. i'll see you later.
<bundat> or maybe not.
<Yagisan> night all
<LaserJock> ack, cbx33 
<cbx33> hey
<cbx33> hiya LaserJock 
<cbx33> made some more changes
<LaserJock> of course you did ;-)
<sbartleylinux> ogra:  Welcome back.  So, the system seems to have some gnome default config that says "if remote connection is made, do not allow shutdown or restart button".  However, it does allow hibernate button.  We want to change the default, wherever that is, to not allow any of the three that could cause the server to be brought down by a thin client click.
<bundat> !seen yagisan
<ubotu> yagisan <n=jamie@60-240-85-239-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #edubuntu, 12m 45s ago, saying: 'night all'.
<babygirl> hey there, I recently upgraded from edubuntu 5.10 to 6.06 and openoffice has disappeared, is this normal?
<LaserJock> yikes, I don't think so
<babygirl> it's happened on more than one machine so what could be the problem?
<babygirl> it has been removed from the Applications->Office menu, and doesn't appear in /usr/bin/ooffice2
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't have an edubuntu install in front of me
<LaserJock> can you check to see if the packages are installed
<LaserJock> in synaptic
<babygirl> it looks like some of the packages are installed, but not all of them, though I'm not sure if I need all of them
<LaserJock> probably not
<LaserJock> ok, now use the menu editor in  Applications->Accessories to see what items are in the Office menu
<babygirl> only scribus and evolution (there is a second evolution but it's not set to visible)
<LaserJock> hmm, weird
<LaserJock> babygirl: well, I'd probably try to just reinstall openoffic
<babygirl> ok, thanks for your help :), guess I'll have to do that to all the machines that I upgrade :(
<LaserJock> hmm, sorry I'm not much help
<LaserJock> I haven't heard of that happening before
<babygirl> np, maybe I'm doing something wrong in the upgrade
<LaserJock> just a sec, let me check for open bugs
<babygirl> ok, tx :)
<LaserJock> ah, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/48124
<LaserJock> is edubuntu-desktop installed on the machines?
<babygirl> yes
<LaserJock> hmm
<babygirl> er, what is edubuntu-desktop?
<babygirl> :)
<LaserJock> it is the meta-package that pulls everything together
<babygirl> probably not, if I had to install it extra then
<LaserJock> no, it should be there by default
<LaserJock> that is how the desktop gets installed
<babygirl> ok, I installed 5.10 from install cds, so assume it should be there then
<babygirl> looks like I'm having the same problem as this other guy though
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I just haven't upgraded from 5.10 for a long time
<babygirl> it looks like I have edubuntu-desktop installed on the 5.10 machines I haven't upgraded yet. But it is no longer installed on the machines that I have upgraded to 6.06.
<LaserJock> oh, now that's interesting
<LaserJock> that would cause that kind of problem
<LaserJock> how did  you upgrade?
<babygirl> I upgraded a couple directly from apt-get dist-upgrade,   a couple more, I also upgraded with apt-get in cooperation with the files on the install cd
<babygirl> both ways of upgrading have caused this problem
<babygirl> i.e. I updated the sources.list for dapper, then did "sudo apt-cdrom add", then "sudo apt-get update", then "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade"
<LaserJock> hmm
<babygirl> the first two I tried I didn't add the cdrom, but they still have the same problems
<LaserJock> there is an upgrade tool I believe
<babygirl> yeah, I saw that but assumed this way would work too, maybe that is the problem?
<LaserJock> well, dist-upgrading from release to release can have it's problems
<babygirl> so the "Update Manager" doesn't use the standard dist-upgrading?
<LaserJock> it tries to do it better :-)
<LaserJock> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperUpgrades
<babygirl> ok thanks, maybe I will give it a try :)
<LaserJock> I hope it helps
<LaserJock> you can at least install edubuntu-desktop on the already upgraded ones to make sure everything is installed
<babygirl> ok, thanks, I will give that a try too.
<babygirl> I prefer using command line, so didn't bother with the Update Manager, guess I have to accept we live in a GUI world :)
<LaserJock> hehe, I'm a terminal kind of guy myself
<babygirl> ok, thanks LaserJock, going to head for lunch now, but will try that Update Manager, hopefully it will work :)
<LaserJock> babygirl: ok, I hope it works too
<babygirl> looks like that edubuntu-desktop will work on the new systems too, it is going to remove a few openoffice files, and replace them with other openoffice files
<LaserJock> good
<babygirl> that makes me happier :)
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
<Burgwork> hye pygi 
<pygi> hey Burgwork, how are you? :)
<Burgwork> not bad
<pygi> :)
<Burgwork> killing time waiting for a client to contact me
<ron_o> is the live version different from the desktop?
<Burgwork> ron_o, not really, at the user level
<ron_o> some of the other ubuntu's are combining both a live cd with an install.
<ron_o> I have ubuntu already and am familiar with it.
<ron_o> from the d/l speed of the torrent, it looks like edubuntu is pretty popular.
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
<sbartleylinux> ogra: ping
<pygi> sbartleylinux, can someone else perhaps assist you? :)
<sbartleylinux> pygi: maybe. ogra is familiar with our system and configuration.   the system seems to have some gnome default config that says "if remote connection is made, do not allow shutdown or restart button".  However, it does allow hibernate button.  We want to change the default, wherever that is, to not allow any of the three that could cause the server to be brought down by a thin client click.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, I don't see how that is a problem if correct permissions are set?
<sbartleylinux> pygi: does not seem to be permission oriented.  For remote connections, we want to remove the hibernate button from the logout screen the same way the shutdown and restart button were removed.
<sbartleylinux> Does not seem to matter what user is logged in remotely, hibernate button is there but restart and shutdown are gone.
<sbartleylinux> I can remove it on a per user basis through gnome-editor but cant figure out where to make the change a global one like appears to have been done for the restart and shutdown.
<pygi> Also, that might be matter of modifying the package which is in charge of logout screen
<pygi> tried gconf-editor?
<sbartleylinux> sorry. that is what i meant when i said gnome-editor.
<pygi> ah,oki
<sbartleylinux> modification of the package may be the issue.  our original testing was on breezy with ltsp-server-standalone and the hibernate button did not come up.  once we moved to dapper, it seems to have started.
<sbartleylinux> further testing shows that it is there with freenx as well as with ltsp thin clients.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, hm, interesting
<sbartleylinux> yep.  was hoping that someone using thin clients might have dealt with this issue before.  Seems to us that this would be a very big issue for thin clients to have the ability to hibernate the server and knock all the users off the system.
<sbartleylinux> might be able to fix it with permissions of whatever hibernate is calling so user's get the button but dont have the ability execute the app.
<sbartleylinux> dont know what it is calling though.
<sbartleylinux> And, this would not, obviously, remove the button from view, just break it so the user could not break the system.
<pygi> indeed
<pygi> that's what I was reffering to when talking about permissions
<sbartleylinux> our preference would be to simply not have the button appear to any remote connection.
<pygi> indeed
<DanielC> Edubuntu doesn't like me. The installation always fails. At one point in the installation the screen goes black and never recovers.
<DanielC> I've tried both the server and workstation installations. It's all the same.
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: which video card is in your system?
<sbartleylinux> Does the black screen have 2 little white boxes on it?
<DanielC> It's an on-board video which works fine with the LiveCD.
<DanielC> yes it does!
<sbartleylinux> :)
<DanielC> Youv'e seen this before?
<sbartleylinux> OH Yes.
<DanielC> Is there any hope for getting Edubuntu on this box? It seems odd that this would work with the plain Ubuntu LiveCD.
<sbartleylinux> Should be.  just a sec.
<sbartleylinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xresprobe/+bug/43722
<DanielC> *click*
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: that is the bug we filed for it.
<ron_o> can the liveCD be installed?
<sbartleylinux> We have just today hacked a fix for it in our kickstart/install.
<dan_young> sbartleylinux: what is the per-user gconf key for disabling hibernate?
<DanielC> ron_o: I haven't tried. I got as far as the partitioning and I couldn't setup a RAID system.
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: If you simply wait once the screen goes black,  at some point, the cd should eject.  Once it does, simply remove the cd and hit Enter.
<ron_o> don't care about raid..
<ron_o> but live wasn't meant to be installed..
<sbartleylinux> dan_young: /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate
<ron_o> that's what it seems like on the d/l page. 
<ron_o> The other distros are having dual live/install features.
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: When the system reboots, it should come up fine.
<DanielC> sbartleylinux: I did that with the workstation install, but when I restarted the computer it wouldn't boot. It said it couldn't find vmlinuz :(
<DanielC> I forget the full file name, but it was the Linux kernel.
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: did you hit the power button or hit enter when the cd ejected?
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: our testing shows that if you hit the power button, it messes up grub.
<DanielC> sbartleylinux: I must have hit Enter, but I'm willing to try again in case I didn't.
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: hitting enter in our case works every time.  
<DanielC> Ok, I'll install again and this time I'll make sure I hit Enter.
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: could be diff hardware and other problems on your system.  
<sbartleylinux> Give it a try though.  it may be worth it. best of luck.
<DanielC> Question: Will this work with both the workstation and server install?
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: seems to only be broke in the workstation.  The server install does not install the gui and so does not do the xresprobe I believe.
<sbartleylinux> could be wrong on that as I have not personally tested the server install.
<DanielC> The screen goes black in both cases for me. With the server install it goes black during the LTSP setup.
<sbartleylinux> ah.
<sbartleylinux> sure.
<sbartleylinux> it does the xresprobe as part of the client config on the edubuntu server build.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, please wait, I am looking into the issue
<sbartleylinux> pygi: np.
<DanielC> Well, I'll do a workstation install and later upgrade it to LTSP server.
<sbartleylinux> DanielC: is your onboard an intel chip?
<DanielC> sbartleylinux: That would be my guess.
<sbartleylinux> yep. same here. just wanted to verify i was pointing you in the right direction.
<sbartleylinux> good luck.
<DanielC> thanks
* DanielC goes to install Edubuntu
<pygi> sbartleylinux, poke?
<pygi> please change /apps/panel/global/upstream_session key to true with gconf-editor
<pygi> and lemme say what you get
<sbartleylinux> k.
<sbartleylinux> brb
<dan_young> sbartleylinux: my try at hibernate removal on this pastebin: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/15415
<dan_young> seems to work
<dan_young> just use /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory
<sbartleylinux> dan_young: does that remove it for all users including when at console?  or just for remote connected users?
<dan_young> sbartleylinux: all users
<dan_young> including console
<sbartleylinux> yes, thought sl.
<sbartleylinux> so.
<sbartleylinux> hm.
<sbartleylinux> trying to figure out how it is done for restart and shutdown.  those appear at the console but not on remote connections.
<sbartleylinux> pygi: hm.  seems to have slowed down the quit screen being displayed but still hibernate exists.
<sbartleylinux> what is upstream_session?
<pygi> sbartleylinux, hibernate still exists? ergh :-/
<sbartleylinux> yep.
<pygi> That's the logout dialog from gnome...it shouldnt have neither hibernate, nor sleep if I am not mistaken
<sbartleylinux> pygi: wait.
<sbartleylinux> hm.  seems again this only affected the user who ran gconf-editor.  the system menu changed to have log out and shutdown in the menu and no longer goes to the choice screen where hibernate was. 
<sbartleylinux> let me log in as that user on a remote connection and see what happens.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, well, run it in server chroot?
<pygi> oki
<sbartleylinux> :)
<pygi> what? :P
<sbartleylinux> ok.  so, login from the remote client as the user who I made the change as has changed the logout from the default gnome choice screen to a simple logout/switch user screen.  no more hibernate and no shutdown/restart either.
<sbartleylinux> :)
<pygi> see? congrats :)
<pygi> Now try changing the key in server chroot
<pygi> that should perhaps affect all users
<sbartleylinux> console login shows shutdown as an option for that user.  Now I will test a lower user to see what they get on console.
<sbartleylinux> pygi: k. over my head there.
<sbartleylinux> how does one "changing the key in server chroot"?
<pygi> ergh, cannot really explain that :-/
<sbartleylinux> :)  k.  cannot really understand it so now I dont feel so bad.
<pygi> go test that "lower user" of yours first
<sbartleylinux> lol.
<sbartleylinux> pygi: ok.  so lower user same results.  So, it is working at least at that level.  Now.....
<sbartleylinux> next question would be what else does upstream_session change other than the logout screen display?  
<pygi> nothing
<sbartleylinux> will upstream_session be something that changing in the future or what does upstream mean?
<pygi> upstream means "gnome" in this meaning
<sbartleylinux> ah.
<Amaranth> Burgwork: Have you ever looked at the code for RedHat's pygtk g-s-t replacements? It's horrible.
<sbartleylinux> so, the default gnome uses "this" way.  Ubuntu uses the original panel setting.
<pygi> what? :P
<pygi> yup
<sbartleylinux> k.
<Amaranth> ubuntu adds some panel launchers and applets
<Amaranth> but otherwise it's the same
<pygi> there is logout, switch and cancel
<sbartleylinux> yep.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, thats good enough I hope?
<sbartleylinux> So, is the inclusion of hibernate for remote users in the ubuntu tools not an issue for users of ltsp?
<sbartleylinux> pygi: yes, if there is no way to modify the ubuntu tool configuration to meet the need, this will work for us I think.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, I could play around with package responsible for that to remove the hibernate dialog perhaps
<pygi> If only I knew which package was that :)
<sbartleylinux> :) same issue I am having.
<pygi> Amaranth, poke? :)
<Amaranth> pygi: ouch
<pygi> what package is responsible for logout screen?
<Amaranth> I have absolutely no idea.
<pygi> joy, nobody has an idea :)
<Amaranth> But I know /apps/gnome-power-manager/can_hibernate is the gconf key you're looking for
<pygi> sbartleylinux, does that remove that button?
<Amaranth> i tried looking in gnome-session and gnome-panel for the patches for the ubuntu logout dialog
<sbartleylinux> Yep, but it is on a per user basis, not a global change for remote users.
<pygi> ergh. Amaranth *
<Amaranth> sbartleylinux: Let me find the page that tells you how to make it system wide.
<sbartleylinux> cool.
<pygi> Amaranth, basicly change configuration in chroot
<sbartleylinux> Amaranth: as long as it is system wide for remote only, not for console users.
<Amaranth> http://www.gnome.org/learn/admin-guide/2.14/gconf-7.html
<Amaranth> sbartleylinux: it's everyone or no one
<pygi> if I am not mistaken
<Amaranth> why would you hibernate the ltsp server?
<sbartleylinux> Amaranth: exactly.  thus, the question of why is the hibernate button displayed on remote users logout screen?  
<Amaranth> late in the dapper cycle the logout dialog changed to use gnome-power-manager
<Amaranth> i guess no one from edubuntu realized what that would do
<sbartleylinux> that is what I think too.  Trying to figure out how they have it so it does not display restart and shutdown for remote users but does for console users.  Want to mimic that for hibernate.
<sbartleylinux> thus, so it would not be everyone or no one if I could figure that out.
<Amaranth> heh
<pygi> I guess the solution I gave is kinda good, but just kinda...
<Amaranth> lots of regular (non-ltsp) users can't get restart or shutdown either
<Amaranth> that dialog is a buggy *deleted*
<sbartleylinux> pygi: sorry but true.  in a perfect world, I would be able to use the default tool and simply configure it the way i need instead of changing to the upstream tool.
<sbartleylinux> I can live with it if I cant find the way to fix the default but I have to try to find the default if I can.
<sbartleylinux> pygi: it is good to know there is at least a workaround as a fall back.
<pygi> perhaps you could find out the name of package from #ubuntu-devel
<sbartleylinux> i will ask.
<pygi> sbartleylinux, you might try to explain the problem also, they might be able to help
<sbartleylinux> gnome-session.
<pygi> saw that
<pygi> sbartleylinux, try asking for solution perhaps
<sbartleylinux> doing now.
<pygi> saw :P
<francoisb> Is dan young here ?
<dan_young> francoisb: hi
<francoisb> hello, the irc is not installed by default on dapper
<dan_young> francoisb: I just sent a reply to the edubuntu-users list on your tftp question
#edubuntu 2006-06-10
<dan_young> take a look at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPServerSetup
<dan_young> should still apply to dapper, though it refers to 5.10
<pygi> dan_young, we got a cookbook now
<pygi> remember?
<francoisb> For my ltsp server problem : I had a look in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf but there is only commented lines
<pygi> wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters
<dan_young> yeah, I said in my e-mail to the list that it's supposed to be done on install, and the question about dhcpd.conf configuration wasn't in the cookbook, so.... I punted.
<francoisb> The /etc/lstp/dhcpd.conf seems ok
<francoisb> I'll read those articles, and try... Have a good day (good night for myself).
<Burgwork> Amaranth, see my latest blog post
<Amaranth> Burgwork: That's what I was refering to.
<Amaranth> Burgwork: It's better in this case to just start from scratch.
<Burgwork> Amaranth, see the part about having them join us for the NG versioni
<thedarkener> what's up guys
<Burgwork> Amaranth, would it also not be saner to refactor existing code?
<lns> What are the upgrade steps to upgrade a Dapper Flight-5 or 6 install to 6.06 LTS?
<pygi> Burgwork, what are you guys talking about?
<Amaranth> Burgwork: Maybe.
<pygi> lns, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<Burgwork> pygi, system config tools in Ubuntu, etc.
<Burgwork> pygi, see planet.ubuntu
<Amaranth> Burgwork: Last time I looked at fedora tools it was to see if we could use their boot manager instead of BUM
* pygi looks
<Amaranth> it had a lot of fedora specific stuff but after an hour i think i managed to get the UI to at least come up
<lns> pygi, thanks =) then how about rebuilding the ltsp client tree?
<pygi> lns, ergh, forgot that one :-/
<Amaranth> I wonder if edgy's libc6 will still break my system
<pygi> rebuild-ssh-keys or something along that lines :-/
* Amaranth opens a terminal just in case
<pygi> Burgwork, what post am I supposed to read? :)
<Burgwork> pygi, both of mine
<Burgwork> pygi, and the one by thom
<sbartleylinux> Well, thank you all for your pointers and help.  I will follow up with gnome-session and the ubuntu-desktop group to see what I can get done. 
<sbartleylinux> pygi: thx again.  I will use your solution if we cant make progress. ttyl
<pygi> sbartleylinux, laters
<pygi> Burgwork, continue the effort of Yast on debian :)
* Amaranth cries
<Burgwork> pygi, uhh, yast looks to be a big huge codebase without much love
<Amaranth> it's 100F (38C) here
<pygi> Burgwork, actually the core was rewritten to work on Debian
<pygi> now only modules need to be written
<Amaranth> anyone in alaska with a spare couch? :)
<Burgwork> Amaranth, pretty cool here
<Burgwork> pygi, I still see one giant code base
<pygi> Burgwork, indeed :P
<pygi> laters a;;
<pygi> all*
<tony_> Are there any resources to help troubleshoot (thin client) local device support?
<bddebian> Howdy
<Ron_o> I d/l edubuntu, md5sum'd it. I burnt the iso md5sum's the cd burn... when I run edubuntu, after the initial check of options, the thing just hangs..
<Ron_o> I see a blinking cursor and that's it.
<Ron_o> anyone?
<jsgotangco> good morning
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: can you answer that guy Keith on edubuntu-users?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i'll dig up my mails
<jsgotangco> "Keith & Marge"
<jsgotangco> ?
<Burgundavia> yep
<jsgotangco> what can I say i have an old gateway P3 laptop where ubuntu is installable but won't load hardware drivers on boot and have me perplexed as well but windows works
<arthur_> Hi everybody, pretty quite here, saturday morning effect?
<arthur_> I just hosed my Edubuntu/Breezy install by upgrading to Dapper... :(
<arthur_> Has anybody experienced the same?
<arthur_> I think it's the xserver as the graphic interface fails when starting gdm 
<arthur_> Besides that it still uses the old kernel 2.6.12
<arthur_> Any ideas/suggestions as how to fix this problem?
<DanielC> Is there a reason why boot up might fail if /boot is in a RAID-1 partition?
<RobinShepheard> hello all
<pygi> hey RobinShepheard 
<RobinShepheard> hiya pygi, hows it going
<pygi> great, fixing bugs :)
<pygi> what about you?
<RobinShepheard> sounds like fun :), I am trying to learn python as we speak, so maybe one day I can be useful with stuff like that
<pygi> it's bugs in C# application ;)
<RobinShepheard> show off :)
<RobinShepheard> I suppose I could possibly learn c/c++
<RobinShepheard> how much of ubuntu is actually done in python??
<pygi> RobinShepheard, can't say in percentages ;)
<RobinShepheard> wel how about generals like a bit, a fair bit or lots ;)
<RobinShepheard> *well
<pygi> RobinShepheard, why you wanna become member of  cooks?
<RobinShepheard> well, I have been talking to cbx33 about how to do things, and figure maybe I can help with it a bit
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<juliux> hi highvoltage 
<RobinShepheard> I am installing edubuntu in a stockbrokers to provide thin client access to our systems including the citrix published apps
<RobinShepheard> and it will be distributed over 6 offices
<RobinShepheard> just thought I may be able to lend a bit of experience. why??
<pygi> RobinShepheard, ok, will you come to the cookbook meeting?
<pygi> RobinShepheard, 'cause I just got request to approve you ;)
<pygi> mornin' highvoltage ;)
<highvoltage> afternoon pygi!
<highvoltage> hi juliux 
<pygi> highvoltage, oh, afternoon ;)
<RobinShepheard> pygi: yeah bit of a stupid question when I looked at the owner, sorry :)
<RobinShepheard> I got no probs with being at the meeting on wednesday
<juliux> highvoltage, how are you?
<pygi> RobinShepheard, ok, acceptance will be discussed there ;)
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: greetings
<pygi> highvoltage, have you seen what they did to me? :P
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: greetings :)
<highvoltage> pygi: no. who was that? should i beat them up? ;)
<RobinShepheard> pygi: no problems with me attending then is there???
<pygi> RobinShepheard, no, ofcourse, everyone is willing to come :)
<pygi> highvoltage, http://wasabiflux.org:8080/ircstats/summer-discuss.html
<RobinShepheard> cool, cheers
<pygi> search for "pygi" :)
<highvoltage> juliux: doing well. busy cleaning room. i have lots of things that need sorting out (more than i thought)
* highvoltage looks
<juliux> highvoltage, hehe 
<juliux> highvoltage, i am waiting for the packages i should install on my server
<juliux> highvoltage, i have only internet access at the weekend
<highvoltage> great. i'm logging into that machine right now
<RobinShepheard> guess they are saying you talk a lot ;-) pygi
<juliux> highvoltage, ok
<pygi> RobinShepheard, not that :) Look at second one :P
<RobinShepheard> pygi: ok so you are cheerful and talkative 
<juliux> where are the notes from the laste edubuntu meeting?
<highvoltage> pygi brings happiness to the world. 42.9% lines contained smiling faces. :) 
<pygi> highvoltage, yes, that one :P
<DanielC> Who is responsible for the menus in Ubuntu? There should be a menu entry for "OpenOffice Draw" and if they want to remove something they should remove "OpenOffice Database".
<DanielC> more people use Draw than the database.
<DanielC> Especially in a school environment.
<pygi> DanielC, you have Alacarte ;)
<DanielC> pygi: Yes, I know I can change it :)
<pygi> DanielC, nice :P
<highvoltage> juliux: in my home directory, there's a mysql db directory called knab, could you get that into mysql and create a user for me that has access to that db?
<juliux> highvoltage, i can try it
<juliux> highvoltage, i will create you an user so you can add the mysql db yourself
<RobinShepheard> Silly question but can anyone tell me how the edubuntu project came about, was it Mark Shuttleworth who started it, it did ti
<RobinShepheard> doh or did it evolve
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: yes, Mark Shuttlewerth's idea
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: he's been investing in all kinds of education projects for a while
<highvoltage> (see http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org)
<RobinShepheard> cheers
<DanielC> Hmmm.... would it be a good idea to use RAID-0 for swap? It'd be interesting to have swap that is twice as fast as ordinary swap.
<highvoltage> i would say that it did evolve too
<highvoltage> it's an extention on ubuntu.
<highvoltage> DanielC: if you create two swap partitions, the kernel will automatically span them, and use both
<lucasvo> DanielC: I think buying more memory would be more effective
<highvoltage> DanielC: so there's never a benefit to putting swap on raid
<highvoltage> DanielC: just creating two swap partitions on seperate disks will give you maximum benefit
<DanielC> highvoltage: That's very interesting. Thanks, Iearnt something today.
<highvoltage> DanielC: :)
<RobinShepheard> highvoltage: I did wonder whether it was a case of ubuntu does this, what can we use it for of whether it was lets adapt ubuntu for schools
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: no, it wasn't that
<highvoltage> RobinShepheard: in parrallel, we also did the tuxlab project
<RobinShepheard> yeah i saw a bit about that on your website
<highvoltage> we used k12ltsp and Mark did as us what ubuntu would need for us to use it in schools.
<highvoltage> i think he had an 'educational' ubuntu edition on his mind for a long time, possibly before ubuntu even existed.
<RobinShepheard> well I have to say that I cant think of a better use for linux than for furthering education, and that is one place where saving money on things like licenses REALLy makes a difference
<RobinShepheard> I tried to persuade my old school to move to linux about 7 years ago but they we tied into a contract with research machines that was organised by the british education department
<RobinShepheard> that is now coming to an end so I hope I can now persuade them of the benefits of FLOSS
<highvoltage> yep. i think it's become much easier now than 7 years ago. the technology has also come a long way.
<RobinShepheard> agreed, the mention of linux in the mainstream media should also help as now more people have heard of it, it doesn't sound such an obscure proposistion
<RobinShepheard> *proposition even
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: are you still there
<DanielC> back
<DanielC> I was away for a while. Hello.
<RobinShepheard> hiya, did adding the lines to modules work??
<DanielC> yes it did :)
<RobinShepheard> cool, I just wanted to check,as although it hasn't happened to me yet, you never know
<DanielC> Thanks for the help.
<RobinShepheard> no problem
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: where in the uk are you??
<DanielC> Tamworth, near Birmingham.
<RobinShepheard> ahh other end of the country from me, I am in bournemouth
* DanielC looks up Bournemouth
<DanielC> I'm not "from" the UK,so I don't really know where places are.
<RobinShepheard> I just wondered as cbx33 is from southampton, wondered if you were nearby as maybe we could all get together for a few beers.
<DanielC> :)
<RobinShepheard> Bournemouth is on the south coast
<DanielC> If I'm ever in the area I'd be happy to meet and chat.
<DanielC> Ok, I see it on the map.
<RobinShepheard> you will be welcome if you do make it down this part of the country
<DanielC> :)
<RobinShepheard> where are you from originally then??
<DanielC> I've travelled around a fair bit :)
<DanielC> I was born in Venezuela. Move to Canada, the to the USA.
<RobinShepheard> blimey, just a few places then
<DanielC> "moved to Canada, then to the USA"
<DanielC> Been to Hong Kong.
<DanielC> I've spent most of my life in Venezuela and Canada.
<RobinShepheard> that is somewhere I have always wanted to go to, Hong Kong that is
<DanielC> Hong Kong is interesting. It's great to be there for a while, but I wouldn't want to live there permanently. It's too crowded.
<RobinShepheard> Canada must be just a bit different to Venezuela I would think
<DanielC> Yes it is.
<RobinShepheard> my cousin said something very similar when he visited Hong Kong
<RobinShepheard> so are you working in a school here in blighty??? I guess you must be from past questions
<DanielC> I work for a small computer company that serves schools.
<DanielC> I do mostly PHP/MySQL but we want to do Linux thin client installations and I'm the person here who knows most about Linux.
<RobinShepheard> ahh I got you. I wondered as I actually work for a stockbrokers but I want to encourage local schools to use Edubuntu and I am sort of looking for pointers as to what things really matter
<RobinShepheard> I am trying to work out what are the most persuasive points apart from lots of dosh saved
<DanielC> I've only done one thin client install so far. We went to a local school who are friends with us and said to them that we'd install it for free if they'd let us experiment with them.
<DanielC> In my very limited experience, it helps if you already have a relationship with the school. In our case, these are schools that are already customers and already like us, so they'll listen to us.
<DanielC> For someone without that, it would be more difficult. I don't know what to suggest.
<DanielC> I don't do the sales myself. I don't know the schools market well, and I'm not the most eloquent person.
<DanielC> Schools often have old computers that they are ready to throw out. You can tell them "let me try to reuse those as thin clients and I'll do the work for free; if it works you get another computer lab, if it doesn't you've lost nothing".
<DanielC> That's what we're doing with the first few schools, and we have two schools interested already.
<RobinShepheard> cool, I was going to start with the school I used to go to as I still see some of the teachers from time to time and thought it would be best to start like that
<DanielC> It's easier to sell them a small trial than a migration.
<RobinShepheard> yeah I htought that I would start small and then work up from there
<DanielC> That sounds like a good idea. If you know the people they're more likely to listen.
<RobinShepheard> that was my thinking
<DanielC> I'll tell you right now that schools are a fabulously complex environments. You have many users, many applications, users don't have dedicated boxes, and many of the users are actively trying to hack the system.
<RobinShepheard> I don' really fancy the idea of a full scale mass migration of all fo their systems on my own, but as you said I could easily set up a labor twn on my own
<RobinShepheard> *dont
<RobinShepheard> yeah, I remember what I was like at school, dont worry
<DanielC> :)
<RobinShepheard> my typing has gone right down hill, was also supposed to say lab or two
<DanielC> heh
<RobinShepheard> worrying thing is I haven't even been drinking
<DanielC> Typing accuracy is over-rated.
<DanielC> Let me know how it goes with the school.
<DanielC> My limited experience says that sound is a problem. Last I checked, you couldn't get sound on thin clients and a lot of the things that teachers want to do involve sound.
<RobinShepheard> lol, until you have to declare variables. No problem I will do, thanks for the advice
<DanielC> That's what the head teacher told me last Thursday.
<RobinShepheard> ahhh I thought that you were supposed to be able to get sound. I will check as some of our users will want sound for their price alerts
<RobinShepheard> I will let you know how I get on with that aswell
<DanielC> I think sound might be fixed on 6.06. http://www.edubuntu.org/news/5 says " We've added the option for sound support on thin clients."
<DanielC> I hope it works as advertised.
<RobinShepheard> that was what I thought, but I have yet to test it
<RobinShepheard> probably will do on monday or tuesday next week
<DanielC> It also says here that "LTSP clients now enjoy a themed graphical login manager.". That would be nice too. None of the teachers complained about the old one, but I thought it was really ugly.
<RobinShepheard> I have only seen the login of dapper, I used ubuntu as version breezy but no edubuntu
<RobinShepheard> *not
<DanielC> Hard to explain. It didn't use GDM. It had a custom login program that looked like it was written with Tcl/Tk. And the background was black.
<RobinShepheard> The logon on the dapper desktop looks very similar to the standard logon in ubuntu or the workstation edubuntu
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: hiya
<DanielC> The logon for _thin_clients_ used to be different (not gdm). I hope that's changed.
<RobinShepheard> it is now ldm, I don't know whether it is a custom manager or a modified existing one
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: just a quick one about the gettingstarted page
<RobinShepheard> the image of the run application dialog box still shows the wrong path for the file talked about in the paragraphs either side of it
<jsgotangco> RobinShepheard: hi
* jsgotangco checks
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: sorry to ambush you like this, but thought I had better point it out
<jsgotangco> you mean the lts.conf?
<RobinShepheard> jsgotangco: paragraphs are talking about dhcpd.conf and the dailog box is ltsp.conf
<RobinShepheard> *dialog
<jsgotangco> yeah that's an error
<RobinShepheard> I thought that it might be, just thought I would mention it that was all
<jsgotangco> RobinShepheard: unfortunately, i don't have a server here at the moment to change that, and its Jonathan who created that doc
<RobinShepheard> ahh ok I got you
<RobinShepheard> I guess I should have said something to him when he was around earlier
<jsgotangco> good spotting though
<RobinShepheard> what can I say, I am a bit picky :)
<jsgotangco> funny we've had that doc for ages and even ogra and me read it
<RobinShepheard> well I sort of skim read most things so I tried the path in the piccy before reading the text properly, and when it didn't work I thought I had better read it proplerly
<RobinShepheard> *properly
<RobinShepheard> If you need proof reading done, drop me a line by email or via here and I would be happy to do it
<jsgotangco> thanks it should be replaced, unfortunately, we're currently in a lull after release; it should pick up just after the paris conf
<RobinShepheard> My english may not be perfect, but I do notice most things
<RobinShepheard> no worries
<jsgotangco> heh english isn't my native language =)
<RobinShepheard> I wish I was able to come to paris, unfortunately I have joined a bit too late to arrange the time off work, or the cash to pay for it for that matter
<jsgotangco> you never know, we might have another edubuntu summit soon
<RobinShepheard> English is SUPPOSED to be mine, but I can't say I speak it as well as a lot of none UK residents :)
<RobinShepheard> I hope there is another one, even if it is just to celebrate a birthday or something
<RobinShepheard> I learn't quite a lot about english grammer from some hungarian friends of mine
<RobinShepheard> *learnt even
<jsgotangco> wow
<RobinShepheard> ??
<jsgotangco> heh sorry i was looking at digg
<RobinShepheard> ok so was the wow aimed at digg??
<jsgotangco> yeah sorry
<jsgotangco> so yeah...there was an edubuntu summit in london last year...
<RobinShepheard> so I am about a year to late in joining the project then :)
<jsgotangco> lol it is never too late to join a free software project =)
<RobinShepheard> fair point, especially one where so many people can benefit
<RobinShepheard> actually I think it is a bit late to join the ethereal project
<RobinShepheard> but I can't think of any others
<jsgotangco> haha there are some pretty well established projects already =)
<jsgotangco> but usually desktop projects like GNOME are very much open
<RobinShepheard> yeah, only problem I have at the moment is that most of those seem to be written in c and I am not very good with c at the mo
<jsgotangco> not at all, some exciting projects like pessulus are complete python apps
<jsgotangco> as well as what we have for ltsp manager and student control panel
<RobinShepheard> well I am trying to learn python at the moment so hopefully I can be useful soon
<RobinShepheard> I am working my way through the OReilly book learn python on the safari bookshelf
<jsgotangco> well you can also contribute into various stuff like documentation and the website for instance
<RobinShepheard> I have applied for membership of the cookbook, advocacy and I think I applied for the documentation teams for edubuntu today
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<RobinShepheard> I guess I just find the idea of programming a bit more interesting in some ways
<RobinShepheard> pity I am not really a programmer
<jsgotangco> well i gotta go
<jsgotangco> should be sleeping early
<jsgotangco> have a good weekend
<bddebian> Hello
<RobinShepheard> hiya bddebian
<bddebian> Hello RobinShepheard
<RobinShepheard> how are you doing??
<bddebian> OK, thanks.  Yourself?
<DanielC> My edubuntu server can't connect to the local network via DHCP. I don't know what to do. /etc/network/interfaces has the lines "auto eth0" and "iface eth0 inet dhcp".
<DanielC> When I run /etc/init.d/networking restart I get several 'DHCPDISCOVER' lines, then it says 'No DHCPOFFERS received' and quits.
<DanielC> Indeed, I can't ping other computers in the network (ping 192.168.0.12 gives "Host unreachable").
<DanielC> I've always been baffled by networking under Linux (not that I know it under any other OS).
<RobinShepheard> bddebian: yeah not too bad, it is a lovely day here
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: Don't take this the wrong way, you do have another dhcp server up and running on the same lan??
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: Yes. And I have to make it work in that setup.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: can other machines boot and get an address from it??
<DanielC> Though I would be eager to at least understand how two DHCP servers conflict in this case.
<DanielC> Yes, I'm using it on my desktop right now.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: they can both end up giving out the same address
<DanielC> I connected my laptop to the same cable that was going to Edubuntu and the laptop has no problems.
<DanielC> It should be possible to set one to give out 192.168.0.x addresses and the other to give 192.168.1.x addresses, right?
<bddebian> On the same machine?
<RobinShepheard> will it work if you set it up with the networking utility in gnome
<DanielC> No.
<DanielC> Suppose I have a Windows network with a windows server giving out DHCP addresses and serving as a gateway (in this case this is just a router).
<DanielC> I need to connect the Edubuntu server to the gateway from eth0 and get Edubuntu serving DHCP on the eht1.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: If yu specified which mac addresses each server assigned to you would have no problems but if not you would have a 50/50 chance as to which ip range yu got
<DanielC> Then the thin clients would connect to eth1.
<bddebian> If you are using the 255.255.255.0 subnet mask you can't do it effectively unless you are using different interfaces on the "gateway"
<DanielC> I must admit I don't know what a mac address is.
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: so you need to setup a dhcp server to run on the edubuntu box and just listen to eth1 yeah
* DanielC is feeling lost
<bddebian> Is this all on the same physical cabling?
<DanielC> I don't understand networking as well as I wish I did. It's a bit of a low point for me.
<RobinShepheard> if the clients are only connecting to eth1 on the Edubuntu server, you will need to run a dhcp server on the Edubuntu server so they can get an address
<DanielC> bddebian: internet --> router ---> Edubuntu ---> thin clients.
<RobinShepheard> where are you other dhcp server in the map??
<DanielC> bddebian: The idea is that the Edubuntu server will *get* a DHCP address from eht0 and *give* DHCP addresses on eth1 and the thin clients will connect to eth1 only.
<bddebian> Ahhh, OK
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: The router serves DHCP addresses.
<bddebian> So you have eht0 on the Edubuntu server to use DHCP right?
<DanielC> We have other computes connected to the router as well. When I take this box to the school there will be a Windows server giving out DHCP.
<RobinShepheard> ok, I got you. you have installed dhcp-client on the edubuntu server
<DanielC> RobinShepheard: I didn't know that it was a separate step. Give me a minute...
<RobinShepheard> ok
<RobinShepheard> DanielC: As far as I can gather, the edubuntu server doesn't come installed with the client as it is normally the dhcp server on the network
<DanielC> Saus that there's no candidate for that package.
<DanielC> s/Saus/Says
<RobinShepheard> sorry dhcp3-client
<DanielC> :)
<DanielC> 'aptitude search dhcp3' says that it's already installed.
<RobinShepheard> ok
<DanielC> Probably because I started with a workstation install and later added 'edubuntu-server' (because the installer failed on the server install).
<RobinShepheard> ahh I got you, if you type "ps aux | grep dhcp" what do you get ??
<DanielC> says that /sbin/dhclient3 is running.
<RobinShepheard> and it lists eth0 on the returned text
<RobinShepheard> my results are:-
<RobinShepheard> dhcp      5022  0.0  0.1   2336   776 ?        S<s  07:55   0:00 dhclient3 -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth0.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.eth0.leases eth0
<RobinShepheard> dhcp     14007  0.0  0.2   2336  1132 ?        S    12:34   0:00 /sbin/dhclient -1 -lf /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.eth1.leases -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth1.pid -q -e dhc_dbus=31 -d eth1
<RobinShepheard> robins   20052  0.0  0.1   2880   792 pts/1    R+   15:42   0:00 grep dhcp
<DanielC> The ones I have look essentially the same.
<RobinShepheard> ok,
<RobinShepheard> I am going to have to think about this one
<DanielC> Thanks. I'll keep fiddling about.
<RobinShepheard> I can't think of anything off the top of my head
<RobinShepheard> I have to go and pick up my fiancee from work, If you fix it, can you drop me an email
* RobinShepheard waves goodbye
<RobinShepheard> see you all later
<DanielC> ttfn
<RobinShepheard> ttfn is very tigger
<RobinShepheard> bye
* myriams is away: Away at the moment
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pygi> hey HedgeMage ;)
<pygi> and highvoltage 'fcorse ;)
<lucasvo> hi pygi 
<pygi> hey lucasvo ;)
<boricua> hi there quick questions on thin clients for edubuntu,  do you still need to install edubuntu on thin clients?
<highvoltage> hey pygi :)
<highvoltage> boricua: nope, it will get it from the server
<boricua> highvoltage: i see thxs
<highvoltage> np
<boricua> highvoltage: i got confused with the diagram at http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted  so the thin client is like  dumb terminal
<boricua> highvoltage: after the map those applications that it needs to run are they on the server or the clients?
<DanielC> boricua: Yes. Thin clients are essentially dumb terminals. All the need is an "etherboot" ROM. They don't even need a hard drive.
<DanielC> boricua: Everything is on the server.
<boricua> DanielC: is there a how to for the client setup and how to make it boot
<DanielC> I have a thin client box next to me right now. It's 4 inches wide and 1 inch tall. It doesn't have a hard disk.
<DanielC> This thin client box is just a cheap ARM CPU attached to an ethernet card.
<boricua> DanielC: i know but it must connect to the serber some how
<highvoltage> strictly speaking, they aren't dumb terminals... dumb terminals are computers that only send/receive plain text through serial ports
<DanielC> boricua: Take a look at http://rom-o-matic.net/
<highvoltage> but yes, in many ways, you can think of a thin client like a dumb terminal
<DanielC> boricua: Do yo already have some computers that you want to use as thin clients?
<highvoltage> with LTSP, it only displays the graphics from the server computer, it doesn't do any processing for the apllications locally.
<boricua> DanielC: yes
<highvoltage> DanielC: i don't think the ARM architechture it currently supported under edubuntu :/
<DanielC> boricua: Ok. Go to rom-o-matic.net and click on the latest version (5.4.2).
<boricua> DanielC: i am there now
<DanielC> boricua: You'll need to know the make/chip of your ethernet cards.
* DanielC tries to remember which option he used to install the image on the thin client disks.
<boricua> DanielC: 00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys NC100 Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet 10/100 (rev 11)
<DanielC> boricua: For testing, choose "Floppy bootable ROM image" on item 2.
<DanielC> boricua: This will make a bootable floppy that you can put on the thin client.
<DanielC> boricua: A bootable floopy is really useful for testing the thin clients. Once you know it works you can choose another option to either boot from a CDROM or the hard disk.
<boricua> DanielC: what about #1 nic/rom
* DanielC thinks
<DanielC> highvoltage: Can you help me out here? I don't know what ROM boricua needs.
<boricua> here is lspci of my card 00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys NC100 Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet 10/100 (rev 11)
* highvoltage looks
<DanielC> http://rom-o-matic.net/5.4.2/etherboot-5.4.2/src/bin/NIC
<DanielC> on this page I only see two options that say "Linksys" so I'd say try them both and see which works.
<highvoltage> my guess would be lc82c115
<DanielC> "LNE100TX" might stand for "Linksys Network Everywehere" in which case you want "lc82c115"
<highvoltage> but trying both is probably the best bet
<DanielC> :-)
<highvoltage> :)
<boricua> DanielC: trying to figure out box 1  NIC/ROM
<DanielC> Hmmm.... I can't find "lc82c115"
<boricua> me neither
<highvoltage> doesn't seem to be on the dropdown list :/
<DanielC> Ok, the second page says "family drivers/net/tulip".
<DanielC> Maybe we should be looking at the tulip* options?
<DanielC> found it.
<DanielC> tulip:lc82c115
<boricua> i see it it starts with tulip
<boricua> k
<boricua> ok i have a file called eb-5.4.2-tulip.zdsk
<DanielC> Ok. So now put a floppy on the drive and do:
<DanielC> cat eb-5.4.2-tulip.zdsk > /dev/fd0
<boricua> mmm let me see i have floppies :)  stand by
<DanielC> You may need "sudo" for that, I'm not sure.
<boricua> where does firefox put download files
<DanielC> Try your home dir.
<boricua> dont see it there thats why i ask:-)
<DanielC> I have my firefox configured to ask me where I want to save, so I don't know.
<DanielC> On Firefox: Edit > Preferences > Downloads > Ask me where to save every file.
<highvoltage> by default in ~/Desktop, i think
<boricua> i look there and dontn see it yet it shows in firefox/download pane
<DanielC> Can't help you. I don't know.
<boricua> let me look  hold on
<boricua> it was there i was connected to anothert terminal   dumb   me
<boricua> ok i put it in floopy
<DanielC> Ok. That's a bootable floppy. If you just put it in the thin client you should be done with the thin client setup.
<DanielC> If your server is configured correctly then the thin client should be able to boot from it now.
<boricua> was the floopy suppose to be empty>
<DanielC> What do you mean empty? No, it shouldn't be empty AFAIK.
<mhz_shower> highvoltage: hry mon
<boricua> i meant before i put the image there
<mhz_shower> highvoltage: any news about edubuntu nesletter?
<DanielC> boricua: I don't think it matters.
<DanielC> boricua: That command should overwrite the entire floppy.
<boricua> DanielC: when i try to mount the floppy it tells me to specify fs
<DanielC> hmmm
<DanielC> Oh, you are mounting it under Linux?
<DanielC> Don't. Just boot from it.
<boricua> ok
<DanielC> Grab the box you want to be a thin client, put the floppy in, and reboot.
<boricua> nothing happend
<boricua> it took me to my mb
<boricua> it took me to my mbr
<DanielC> Check your BIOS settings and make sure it'll boot from the floppy
<boricua> i did
<DanielC> I don't know what to suggest. This should be a bootable floppy.
<boricua> can i do that onto a cd?
<boricua> i want to try booting from cd
<DanielC> I don't know, I've never tried. Go ahead and try it.
<boricua> trying
<DanielC> One of the options says "ISO bootable"
<DanielC> Two options say "ISO bootable".
<DanielC> One of those ought to work. I don't know whether "legacy floppy emulation" is good or bad.
* HedgeMage peeks in
<boricua> DanielC: i'll let you know
<LaserJock> hi HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock, how's life?
<LaserJock> oh, it's going I suppose
<LaserJock> trying to get things in order for Paris
<LaserJock> gotta put in a sprinkler system in the back yard
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: going to take pics and blog for me since I can't go?
<highvoltage> hey mhz_shower. irc'ing from the shower?
<highvoltage> mhz_shower: i don't think so, if i understand you correctly
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: I will certainly try
<HedgeMage> yay :)
<LaserJock> but I must warn you, I'm not good about taking pictures or blogging
<pygi> hey Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey pygi
<highvoltage> hi there Burgundavia 
<highvoltage> python biggot :)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: I try
<highvoltage> lol
<highvoltage> wow people can get themselves worked up hey
<boricua> DanielC: ok i see whaqt it does i guess i have not configured the server yet 
<boricua> it gets an ip /gateway etc but it fails at the end with no filename
<boricua> DanielC: it says boot from network or quit 
<boricua> DanielC: that client is connected to linksys routers does it need to be connected to another router
<LaserJock> highvoltage: python biggot?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: have you looked at planet.ubuntu.com recently?
<LaserJock> ah no, I'll check it out
<DanielC> back
<DanielC> boricua: Ok, it looks like the client is working.
<DanielC>  boricua: Edubuntu server --> switch or hub --> thin clients
<boricua> DanielC: well working that is looking for something
<boricua> DanielC: ok  i am going to need a 2nd network card     mmm i wonder if in the mean time i can use a wireless one 
<DanielC> boricua: If it goes as far as to suggest that you boot from the network then the client is doing everything it can (so it seems). It's up to the server to do the rest.
<boricua> k
<HedgeMage> BBL real life calls
<nootrope> hello. is it possible to download the typing tutor i saw in an edubuntu installation so i can have it on my ubuntu system?
<HedgeMage> nootrope: sure... our two typing tutors are tuxtype and some kthing I keep forgetting the name of 
* HedgeMage thinks
<nootrope> can i run the kthing under gnome?
<DanielC> nootrope: Should be. We just need to figure out the package name.
<HedgeMage> nootrope: yep
<nootrope> ah!
<HedgeMage> if I remembered its name :/
<nootrope> tuxtype isn't really  what i'm looking for...i'm not four ;)
<DanielC> nootrope: typespeed seems to be a typing game.
<HedgeMage> lol
<nootrope> yes! i think that's it!
<DanielC> It's in universe.
<nootrope> thanks, Daniel!
<nootrope> DanielC
<DanielC> np
<HedgeMage> nootrope: if you look at the edubuntu-desktop package, it's a metapackage with our default stuff in it, look at the list of apps it include
<HedgeMage> *includes
<HedgeMage> okay, really leaving this time
<nootrope> oh, ok! if i D/L allof it it'll have all the educational apps of edubuntu?
<HedgeMage> yep
<nootrope> k. thanx!!
<HedgeMage> np!
<nootrope> now, get out of here
<HedgeMage> rofl
<nootrope> :)
* HedgeMage is hopeless
<HedgeMage> Really REALLY leaving this time...
<nootrope> famous last words #567
* myriams_away is back.
<DanielC> nootrope: I just downloaded typespeed. It's command-line and a bit geeky (one of the options is "test your speed typing Unix commands")
<nootrope> hmmm. not it, then
* DanielC is enjoying it though :)
<nootrope> hah!
<nootrope> the touch-typing tutor is KTouch!
<nootrope> goodbye and thanks!
<bddebian> Hello
<HedgeMage> hi bddebian, cbx33 
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<bddebian> and HedgeMage :-)
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> hi everyone
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage, we're gonna work on your logo tomorrow
<cbx33> if that's ok
<HedgeMage> cbx33: that is awesome :D
<cbx33> had to go out today at short notice
<cbx33> LaserJock, howz it going
<LaserJock> it's going
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> a man of many words
<cbx33> at least my keyboard is fixed now
<cbx33> it's a kernel bug, I've lost the battery monitor but then I don't really care about that
<Amaranth> yay i unbroke my content-type checking
<LaserJock> cbx33: \o/
<Amaranth> right as i was falling asleep last night i realized what i was doing wrong
<cbx33> I love moment like that
<Amaranth> i was reading until i got the headers, pulling out the content type, and sending immediately if it wasn't a text type
<cbx33> you figure something major out and it;s like......WWOOAAHHH
<Amaranth> i forgot to send the headers :P
<cbx33> I remember doing that on my thesis.....
<Amaranth> (and sometimes part of the document)
<lucasvo> anybody ever worked with openmosix?
<cbx33> iwas getting weird clicks at the beging of sound samples and I couldn't figure out why
<cbx33> nope
#edubuntu 2006-06-11
<Meshezabeel> Can I ask if I can ask a question?
<LaserJock> you're supposed to ask the question first since it depends on the question ;-)
<Meshezabeel> :)
<mhz> hhehe
<mhz> yeah, just shoot (but not 'us')
<LaserJock> lol
<mhz> "I shot tha sheriff..."
<mhz> Meshezabeel: so? what is it?
<mhz> LaserJock: do yo knw how to recover a ssh key?
<mhz> (from public key)
<LaserJock> hmm, I wouldn't think that would work
<LaserJock> would kinda defeat the purpose
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> then, I am just screwed?
<mhz> or, I have been 'shot' :D
<mhz> re
<Meshezabeel> re?
<DanielC> Hi. I'm on the rom-o-matic website to pick a ROM that I can use for my laptop's PCMCIA ethernet card. So I can use it as a thin client to test Edubuntu.
<DanielC> I don't know what card to pick, there are no markings. Is there a pcmcia equivalent to lsmod?
<DanielC> lspci sorry
* DanielC doesn't really know what lsmod does.
* DanielC figures out that lsmod is for Linux kernel modules
<DanielC> I wish there was an lspmcia just like there is an lspci and an lsusb.
<DanielC> Does anyone know how I can find card information for a pcmcia card? (something like lspci but for pcmcia would be nice).
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<spacey> i have no idea about pmcia, sorry
<DanielC> :(
<DanielC> There has to be a way to figure out what type of pcmcia card I have.
<spacey> DanielC: if you want to test it you can also burn a rom-o-matic iso and burn it on cd
<spacey> and boot it on your laptop
<DanielC> spacey: But there are a hundred possible ROMs there.
<spacey> oh yeah
<spacey> does it show up in dmesg?
<DanielC> I see several instances of 'pcmcia' but none which are revealing.
<DanielC> pmcia: parent pci bridge I/0 window: 0x2000 - 0x2fff
<DanielC> Things like that.
<spacey> i never had a pcmcia nic so no idea
<spacey> pmcia
<DanielC> I thought that pcmcia and pci were totally different things, why does it have a "parent pci bridge"?
<spacey> i guess it hooked up on pci, but not sure, look it up in wikipedia :)
<DanielC> :)
<DanielC> Help. I can't boot my thin client. It starts booting and you see the Ubuntu splash screen and all but after a few moments it goes back to the text terminal and says:
<DanielC> Ip-Config: eth0 hardware address 00:0b:6a:55:e9:ca mtu 1500 DHCP RARP
<DanielC> And it just stays there, doing nothing.
<DanielC> The line above that simply says "Uncompressing Linux... Ok, booting kernel"
<lucasvo> DanielC: is the dhcp server running?
<DanielC> Yes.
<DanielC> The client can even download a Linux kernel from the server and start booting it.
<DanielC> I just figured that it dies at the "Mounting root file system" step.
<DanielC> I guess that the problem must be at the server, in the directory /opt/ltsp/i386
<DanielC> Looks like the ltsp client system is broken.
<cbx33> afternooooooon all !
<Yagisan> cbx33: G'day
<cbx33> hey Yagisan 
<cbx33> howz it going
<cbx33> how are your daughters fingers
<Yagisan> cbx33: she's getting better. having trouble using her hand.
<cbx33> but no broken bones?
<Yagisan> nope. just a bloody mess
<cbx33> eeek
<cbx33> what are you up to today?
<Yagisan> package updates
<cbx33> oh?
<cbx33> deng?
<Yagisan> and I'd like to make a trailer for deng
<Yagisan> yep
* cbx33 is working on gisomount
<Yagisan> 1GB+ of data packs to update
<cbx33> yikes
<cbx33> i won;t download them yet then
<Yagisan> yeah :(
<Yagisan> cbx33: on dapper yet ?
<cbx33> yes
<Yagisan> good. as the com out you can download them
<Yagisan> s/the com/they come
<cbx33> Yagisan, when i try to upgrade deng
<cbx33> from brezzy to dapper
<cbx33> it keeps the package back
<cbx33> so when i do apt-get install deng
<cbx33> I think I'm gping to have to reinstall the packages again
<Yagisan> cbx33: odd
<Yagisan> cbx33: deng is beta4 in dapper, and beta3 in breezy
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> can you give me the list of essential packages again?
<cbx33> actually nevermind
<Yagisan> cbx33: heh we are calculating our userbase of deng after a windows user bitched about *nix support
<Yagisan> cbx33: we ran the numbers, and well as far as we can tell, we may have more *NIX users then Win32. http://forums.newdoom.com/showthread.php?t=30565&page=3
<Yagisan> cbx33: heh heh - I should propose dropping Win32
<Yagisan> >:)
<cbx33> Yagisan, I'm experiencing worse performance on dapper?
<cbx33> :S
<Yagisan> cbx33: that's not good :( theres no change from the svn that you were sent
<cbx33> I never tried that
<cbx33> I've been running on breezy
<cbx33> i just upgraded to beta4
<cbx33> i only updated the deng package
<cbx33> the others were installer packages
<cbx33> which I don;t need to i?
<Yagisan> cbx33: shouldn't need them. they need some love though
<cbx33> what do you think I should try
<cbx33> i was playing map downtown
<cbx33> and the next one
<cbx33> I'm getting tonnes of lag
<Yagisan> cbx33: that is really odd
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<cbx33> want me to try anything
<cbx33> can i get an fps or something
<pygi> cbx33, what do you mean?
<cbx33> I'm gonna uninstall completely and reinstlall
<cbx33> sorry pygi talking to Yagisan 
<pygi> AH oki :)
<Yagisan> cbx33: in the control panel it has an otion to show the fps
<cbx33> ok
<Yagisan> cbx33: it doesn't like wide open areas with heap of monsters
<Yagisan> cbx33: that is lag city
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> but it ran pretty much ok on breezy version
<cbx33> oh and sky is still broken
<Yagisan> cbx33: send me a screenie + Doomsday.out
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hang on
<Yagisan> cbx33: I've never reproduced a broken sky error though
<cbx33> how can i confirm which version I'm running
<Yagisan> cbx33: press ~ it should say in the console
<cbx33> 1.9.0-beta4
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey juliux 
<cbx33> Yagisan, I sent you an email
<cbx33> it says Giles but it shuld be Files
<Yagisan> cbx33: WTF!
<cbx33> eh?
<Yagisan> cbx33: that pic!
<cbx33> yeh screwed up eh?
<cbx33> it's like in the old doom when you used to build levels and forgot to apply a texture to the sky
<Yagisan> cbx33: yeah, biy it has "MISSING" on all missing textures in deng
<Yagisan> s/biy/but
<cbx33> ahh
<Yagisan> cbx33: so the error is somewhere else. I usually use full models and skuboxes, but you've got none of that
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> did you see my frame rate
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> 21 :(
<cbx33> Yagisan, this is on a laptop
<cbx33> but it should be ok
<Yagisan> cbx33: 21 is ok. ideally you don't want less then 35
<Yagisan> cbx33: because that is the internal clock. 35hz for doom
<cbx33> ah
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> howz it going
<lucasvo> telnet ascii-wm.net 2006
<highvoltage> ehg.. just one of those days.
<highvoltage> how are you mr cbx33?
<cbx33> I'm fine highvoltage how are you
<highvoltage> feeling like i can't catch up with work, but otherwise ok.
<cbx33> lucasvo, then what :p
<cbx33> oh y is that?
<highvoltage> heh@ascii wm live
<lucasvo> when is the next play?
<highvoltage> no idea
<cbx33> what is it?
<highvoltage> cbx33: ascii tennis :)
<lucasvo> niederlande is play8ing
<cbx33> cooool
<cbx33> lucasvo, anyway to increase the res?
<cbx33> hhehe
<lucasvo> no
<cbx33> aww, that sux
<highvoltage> cbx33: append vga=791 ;)
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> where?
* highvoltage hangs on
<cbx33> on the command line?
<cbx33> :S
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, just a joke. (appending vga=791 increases your VT resolution to 1024x768)
<cbx33> oh
<highvoltage> cbx33: but you can also set your terminal font smaller :)
* cbx33 didn't get and now feels stupid
<cbx33> I already did that
<cbx33> but It's still too difficult to see
<highvoltage> heh, don't feel stupid
<DanielC> Help: The thin client starts booting but stops at the "Mounting root filesystem" step.
<DanielC> I take it to mean that the problem is in /opt/ltsp/i386
<DanielC> But I don't know what to do to make that filesystem mount correctly.
<DanielC> The client doesn't give any errors. It just stops booting. I checked /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/fstab and I only saw the /proc filesystem listed. Is that normal?
<lucasvo> DanielC: is nfs running?
<DanielC> dunno
<DanielC> How do I check that?
<lucasvo> try to start it with: 
<lucasvo> sudo /etc/init.d/nfs-kernel-server start
<lucasvo> sudo /etc/init.d/portmap start
* DanielC checks
* DanielC reboots the client
<DanielC> No change :(
<lucasvo> DanielC: do you have a firewall?
<DanielC> On Edubuntu? Not that I know of. This is a vanilla install.
<DanielC> Standard Edubuntu --> switch --> thin client
<jsgotangco> no firewall in default nor open ports if you've isntalled workstation
<DanielC> I did start out with a workstation install and then 'apt-get edubuntu-server'.
<DanielC> brb
<Yagisan> cbx33: I suspect your mirror effect is related the the other opengl issues I'm hunting down
<DanielC> back
<DanielC> Does anyone know how to mount the LTSP root file system from the command line?
<DanielC> I just connected my laptop to the network served by the Edubuntu server. It received an IP and I can ping the server.
<mhz> cool
<DanielC> So next I want to try the nfs mount step, and hopefully get a meaningful error message.
<DanielC> mount 192.168.17.1:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt/ltsp
<DanielC> Btw, I'm using the 192.168.17.x addresses to avoid conflict with the outer network using 192.168.0.x
<DanielC> Ok, the mount didn't work and this is the error:
<DanielC> mount: RPC: Timed out
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> DanielC: sorry I ask (I just got in) but you did use an edubuntu fresh install?
<DanielC> mhz: I did a "workstation" fresh install and then ran "apt-get install edubuntu-server" and then "ltsp-build-client".
<mhz> DanielC: hmm, and you get mounting errors?
<mhz> but you do get DHCP server working because you do get IP at the client? 
<Yagisan> G'day DanielC, mhz
<DanielC> mhz: When I boot the thin client, it reaches the point where it says "Mounting root file system" and then it just stops.
<mhz> Yagisan: hey bro! Nice to see ya
<mhz> hmmm
<DanielC> mhz: I'm mounting from my laptop so I can get a more meaningful error, and what I got was the time-out.
<mhz> DanielC: not sure but.. can you try 'ltsp-update-sshkeys' ?
<mhz> (at the server side)
<DanielC> Yes, DHCP itself is working. I can ping the server, and indeed download a kernel from the client.
<Ron_o> When I try to run edubuntu's live CD, after the initial boot choices it just hangs with a blinking cursor. I md5ed both the iso and the CD..... 
<Ron_o> anyone?
<DanielC> mhz: Ok, give me a minute to run ltsp-update-sshkeys
<mhz> DanielC: I assume you are editing /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf NOT /etc/dhcp-server/blabla
<mhz> Ron_o: hmm
<mhz> Ron_o: you say CD is ok?
<Ron_o> I md5ed it according to the md5 instructions on the Ubuntu wiki.
<Ron_o> md5sum..... | grep ... 'OK$'...
<Ron_o> it came up with no errors.
<mhz> Ron_o: and RAM of your pc is?
<Ron_o> 196..
<mhz> and processor?
<Ron_o> PII 350Mhz..
<cbx33> Yagisan, think it'll be fixed soon
<mhz> Ron_o: AFAIK, and after trying many times, I got same issue with LiveCD's
<Yagisan> cbx33: well, I know it does not appear with the skyboxes on
<DanielC> mhz: ltsp-update-sshkeys mad no difference. I can't mount from my laptop and the thin client still fails at the mount step. Yes, I've been editing /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<mhz> Ron_o: LiveCD's with GNOME or XFCE or KDE are too heavy
<cbx33> bah....skyboxes....
<cbx33> naughty naughty Yagisan 
<Ron_o> I ran LIveCD with gnome and xfce and has no problem.
<Ron_o> I just don't get it.
<Yagisan> cbx33: actually, for doom, it really helps (covers up problems with broken wads)
<mhz> Ron_o: I have always failed with similar hardware, no matter how much ram I use in PII or PIII under 500 MHz
<cbx33> yeh....
<Ron_o> OK..
<Ron_o> that must be it then.
<mhz> Ron_o: unless... I use DamnSmall Linux
<Yagisan> Ron_o: not always
<mhz> Ron_o: which will give you a nice FLuxbox env.
<cbx33> Yagisan, we always used to shout at each other for using skyboxes
<Ron_o> but xubuntu worked fine... as did ubuntu liveCD..
<Ron_o> that's what's so confusing.
<mhz> Ron_o: however, if you try booting for installing instead of Live mode, then you can have no problems
<DanielC> mhz: I don't see any NFS entry in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/fstab, is that normal? All I see is a /proc entry.
<Ron_o> well, I don't really want to install.
<mhz> Ron_o: but GNOME is still too heavy
<Ron_o> Gnome is. It's slow, but workable.
<mhz> DanielC: let me check my paths
<mhz> Ron_o: yeah but Live mode is LOT heavier
<Ron_o> What I wanted it for is my neice coming over and she could use it on my computer..
<mhz> heavy = expensive
<Yagisan> Ron_o: my experience on a P2 233 is livecd is too slow, but a local install is just usable (256MB)
<Ron_o> ok.
<DanielC> Ron_o: Try installing Xubuntu. It should be faster.
<Ron_o> I'll accept that it's my hardware. I know I'm really out of date.
<mhz> Ron_o: hmm, how about installing Edubuntu server to a more resourcefull hardware and have the P3 boor from it via LTSP ?
<Ron_o> mhz, I'll try that.
<Ron_o> thanks.
<mhz> Ron_o: xubuntu live cd also failed in  a PII of 400 MHz
<mhz> well, not failed BUT took 40 minutes to actually start using it :D
<DanielC> Try Damm Small Linux. It's quite respectable I think.
<mhz> Ron_o: I have a Celeron 1 GHz with 256 MB of ram and boot the PII from it
<mhz> so my daughter plays Gcompris
<mhz> DanielC: yeah, I love DSL
<mhz> Ron_o: same PII took about 3 minutes to be rady to work with DSL
<mhz> and it was really fast
<Ron_o> I have DSL. I like it but it was a bit much for me when I first got into linux.
<Ron_o> now, maybe not so.
<Yagisan> Ron_o: the problem with the live cd's is, it spends all its time uncompressing the applications etc, so much time that on older systems, it takes ages to run the applications
<Ron_o> Yagisan, that's somewhat true. Knoppix is quite efficient on my system.
<mhz> Ron_o: hehehe, yeah, Fluxbox is not so aimed for end-users (but still a bit intuitive)
* mhz check his paths for DanielC 
<mhz> DanielC: so it seems, I only have an entry for /proc
<DanielC> mhz: ok
<DanielC> hmm....
<mhz> DanielC: it gets my attention that I have always isntalled edubuntu in the most unusual way
<DanielC> So the most likely culpit is NFS. For some reason I can't mount over NFS.
<mhz> DanielC: I usually get Ubuntu via NetBoot (well, from an Edubuntu server) into my thinlaptop-server. Then, I install edubuntu-server + edubuntu-desktop
<mhz> then, buil client, and never had a problem
<DanielC> Computers don't like me. I always have problems.
<mhz> DanielC: nah!
<mhz> :D
<mhz> DanielC: do you have a router somewhere?
<mhz> or only switch or hub
<DanielC> Just a switch.
<mhz> hmm, so no routers conflicting with dhcp from edubuntu
<DanielC> No, it's just:  Edubuntu --> switch --> laptop and the thin client
<DanielC> dhcp seems fine, I can ping the Edubuntu server.
<mhz> DanielC: this may sound not clever, but nay chance you can rebuild client?
<mhz> nay  = any
<DanielC> You mean ltsp-build-client ?
<mhz> yup
<Ron_o> I'm trying Edubuntu live on my Celeron 366Mhz and I'll see how it goes. It's already gone farther than this system.
<DanielC> I'm willing to try it.
<Ron_o> but it may not be very useable regardless. :)
* DanielC rebuilds client
<DanielC> Btw, I can even ssh from my laptop to the Edubuntu server. So the problem is not with DHCP. It's NFS.
<DanielC> Rebuilding the client should not fix a problem with NFS though, should it?
<mhz> only Murphy would get an answer for that, DanielC :)
<DanielC> Hmmm... /etc/hosts.allow doesn't have anything. Is that normal?
<Yagisan> DanielC: yes. hosts.deny is also empty
<DanielC> Yagisan: Any idea why I wouldn't be able to mount over NFS?
<mhz> Yagisan: what would i need to recover a ssh key when I did not back up?
<Yagisan> DanielC: to be honest, not at this moment.
<Yagisan> mhz: urgh. as in disk recovery ?
<mhz> Yagisan: nope, as in "I did not back up my .ssh stuff and I need to log in to a server which only allows my ssh key :( "
<Yagisan> mhz: you'd need an act of $DEITY then :(
<mhz> ?what?
<Yagisan> mhz: it other words, you are out of luck
<Yagisan> mhz: time to make a new key + backup
<Yagisan> mhz: sorry mate :(
<mhz> Yagisan: oh
<mhz> Yagisan: the sysadmin will not like that
<mhz> Yagisan: I already had lost one the first time ( i had buld it from a cyber cafe...duh!)
<mhz> Yagisan: it is me.. I was the fool, so  no worries
<DanielC> Could someone help me set Edubuntu to accept remote X connections? I tried:
<DanielC> iptables -A input -p udp -i eth1 --port 177 -j ACCEPT
<DanielC> But that gave me the error "No chain/target/match by that name"
<DanielC> Found it. 'input' should be 'INPUT' (it's case sensitive).
<DanielC> Grrr... could anyone tell me how to open UDP port 177 or TCP port 6000 please?
<spacey> DanielC: doe you have a firewall installed?
<spacey> or a script loaded
<spacey> edubuntu doesn't have that by default
<spacey> you only have to check that gdm will it
<spacey> [xdmcp] 
<spacey> Enable=true
<spacey> in /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf-custom
<spacey> you can probably do it in System -> Administration -> login manager as well
* DanielC reads
<DanielC> spacey: This is a default Edubuntu install. No firewall.
* DanielC takes a look at gdm.conf
<spacey> DanielC: then you don't have to open ports in the firewall ;)
<spacey> DanielC: make sure you put any changes in gdm.conf-custom and not in gdm.conf itself
<DanielC> gdm.com-custom looks fine
<DanielC> I had already enabled it through System > Admin > login manager; but I checked godm.conf-custom and it looks as you say it should.
<DanielC> I went to System > Admin > Network tools > Port Scan and ran a scan on the server's IP. I didn't see any entry for ports 177 or 6000.
<spacey> what about netstat?
* DanielC doesn't know what to do with netstat
* DanielC runs netstat to see what it does
<spacey> netstat shows the ports that are open
<spacey> and connections at the moment
<DanielC> I must be stupid today, I don't see where it says which ports are open.
<spacey> try `netstat -ap`
<spacey> Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address           Foreign Address         State       PID/Program name
<spacey> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:44544         0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN     -
<spacey> tells you that something listens on 127.0.0.1:44544
<DanielC> Ok.
* DanielC runs to the server to run netsat
<spacey> DanielC: you want to LTSP.org ltsp?
<spacey> *use
<DanielC> I'd be happy using ltsp, but since that's giving me trouble I'm testing a small thin client box which is not ltsp and instead tries to establish a remote X connection.
<spacey> ltsp.org ltsp does the same thing
<spacey> thats why i asked
<spacey> the ubuntu ltsp is over ssh
<DanielC> netstat doesn't show either port 177 or 6000 open.
<DanielC> I don't know how ltsp.org ltsp is different from Edubuntu ltsp.
<spacey> like i said, ubuntu ltsp goes over ssh (encrypted)
<spacey> ltsp.org ltsp goes with XDMCP 
<spacey> same you are trying now
<spacey> what kind of small thin client box are you using now?
<DanielC> It's a custom-made box.
<DanielC> It's a tiny box (4inches x 4 inches x 1 inch) that runs a Linux distribution which establishes a remote X connection through XDMCP.
<spacey> its white label?
<DanielC> It's nice because it's small and silent.
<DanielC> I don't understand your question :(
<spacey> the little box doesn't have a brand?
<DanielC> The brand is Sumo but you are not likely to have heard of it, it's very new.
<spacey> ah ok
<spacey> expensive?
<DanielC> It's from a guy in this town who hopes to sell them.
<spacey> we have a few HP ones: http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey/?p=206
<DanielC> yes and no: :)  the "fair" price for it would be perhaps 40 pounds, but because this guy wants to recoup his investment he is selling them for 175 pounds.
<DanielC> *click*
<spacey> hmm
<spacey> the hp ones cost around 200 euro
<spacey> excl VAT
<DanielC> Oh, his boxes look much like that.
<DanielC> A bit smaller, but much the same.
<spacey> the ones we have also have linux on it
<spacey> with XFCE
<DanielC> Do the HP ones work well? Do they work with Edubuntu?
<spacey> on the flash card
<spacey> but we boot them with PXE
<spacey> yes they do, see picture :p
<DanielC> Well... I guess that want I want to know is if you had to do a lot of fiddling with Edubuntu. Whether it's not the default Edubuntu setup.
<spacey> well we use them with ltsp.org ltsp, which needed a few extra parameters in the lts.conf
<spacey> but it should work on edubuntu just fine
<DanielC> Was it hard to do?
<spacey> took me half an hour but i guess i have a bit more experience then you
<spacey> the thing you have now should work as well
<DanielC> Ok.
<spacey> if you don't get this working  you probably run in the same problems with the HP one
<DanielC> 200 Euros you said... that's a bit cheaper than the one I have here, but not loads cheaper.
<DanielC> Understood.
<spacey> i don't know how much the pound is worth
<spacey> also depends where you buy
<spacey> and on the quantities i suppose
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> From what you say, I take it that configuring ltsp.conf to use DXMCP is not simple. :(
<spacey> if you set up the dhcp server, tftp and nfs correctly you can boot them with PXE
<spacey> its nicer then using the onboard flash card linux thingy
<spacey> there is no ltsp.conf :)
<DanielC> Ok.
<spacey> and the lts.conf has nothing to do with xdmcp
<DanielC> Clearly I've never configured ltsp before.
<spacey> ;)
<spacey> just follow the edubuntu documentation
<spacey> and you should get it working
<DanielC> I've been following it for 3 days and it's still not working.
<DanielC> I did setup Edubuntu once before, at a school. So I do have a general understanding of how it works. But nothing in depth.
<DanielC> Currently I'm having problems with NFS mount.
<DanielC> I just can't mount over NFS.
<spacey> if you have some specific errors we can help you with that
<DanielC> I get a time out.
<DanielC> The error is:  mount: RPC: Time out
<spacey> is your /etc/exports alright?
<spacey> and does your thinclient get the correct ip for the server? (dhcpd.conf setting)
<spacey> portmap installed?
<DanielC> yes to all.
* DanielC tries to remember the exact line in /etc/exports
<spacey> if you boot the thinclient i think it also displays the ip address it wants to connect to
<spacey> thats the right address?
<DanielC> It says:  /opt/ltsp  *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
<spacey> thats correct
<DanielC> The server is 192.168.17.1  I'm pretty sure that's what the client said, but I'll reboot and test.
<spacey> sometimes it can be in the small typo's
<DanielC> It says:  ip=192.168.16.248:192.168.17.1:192.168.17.1:255.255.255.0
<DanielC> ooops
<DanielC> ip=192.168.17.249:192.168.17.1:192.168.17.1:255.255.255.0
<DanielC> The first is a reasonable address for the client.
<DanielC> The second is the correct address for the server.
<turf_> sorry to interrupt, i would just like to ask if you know any software that create still picture to movie like slide show? 
<DanielC> I can't see any errors for NFS, so I can't check that. But on my laptop I use the mount command and that fails.
<spacey> DanielC: what command do you use on your laptop
<DanielC> turf_: Sorry, no.
<DanielC> spacey: mount 192.168.17.1:/opt/ltsp ltsp
<DanielC> (where ltsp is a local directory)
<spacey> turf_: at least pitivi can do movie stuff
<spacey> hmm
<spacey> i would add -t nfs
<spacey> but maybe thats auto detected
<DanielC> Worth trying...
<DanielC> mount: special device 192.168.17.1:/opt/ltsp does not exist
<turf_> actually i'm looking for a software that is like picture pacakge for edubuntu
<spacey> turf_: picture programs i know would be f-spot and gthumb
<DanielC> I can ssh from the laptop to the server, so I expect that the problem is with NFS itself.
<spacey> DanielC: mount -t nfs 192.168.17.1:/top/ltsp /mnt/ltsp (or where ever you want to mount it)?
<spacey> um
<turf_> ok, thanks
<spacey> s/top/opt
<DanielC> spacey: Yes, that's what I did.
<spacey> DanielC: reloaded nfs-kernel-server when you changed /etc/exports?
<DanielC> I never changed /etc/exports
<spacey> what ifyou type `exportfs` on the serveR?
<DanielC> I just reloaded the server just for kicks, no change.
* DanielC checks exportfs
<DanielC>  /opt/ltsp   <world>
<spacey> something is wrong allright
<DanielC> :-(
<spacey> if the /opt/ltsp wasn't shared
<spacey> it would give an error like this:
<spacey> # mount -t nfs cluebox:/opt/ltsp ltsp
<spacey> mount: cluebox:/opt/ltsp failed, reason given by server: Permission denied
<DanielC> Hmmm...
<spacey> that special device error is wierd
<spacey> never seen that
<spacey> you have portmap installed on your laptop btw?
<DanielC> I don't know.
<DanielC> I don't.
<spacey> apt-get install portmap
<DanielC> Ok, one minute...
<spacey> *might* help
<DanielC> installing...
<DanielC> installed
<DanielC> Now, what's portmap and what do I do with it?
<spacey> its works automagicly
<spacey> just try to mount again
<spacey> my housemate just finished cooking
<spacey> so i have to eat
<spacey> i will be back later
<spacey> good luck
<DanielC> Jesus I'm so sutpid. I typed "ntfs" instead of "nfs". With the correct command the error is still the same (timeout).
<DanielC> spacey: thanks, enjoy your meal
<Amaranth> S = chi2P(-2.0 * math.log(reduce(operator.mul, map(lambda p: 1.0-p[1] , probs), 1.0)), 2*n)
* Amaranth cringes
* Yagisan is glad he doesn't understand that
<Yagisan> cbx33: started pushing out updated deng installers. feel free to try them
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<yurtboy> anyone know why my keyboard keys do not work (other then numbers row) when booting the ltsp client?  
<cbx33> odnol
<cbx33> bimble
<cbx33> jackobee
<cbx33> I'm all out
<cbx33> bbl guys
<highvoltage> bye cbx33 
<Yagisan> catch you later cbx33
<mhz> cbx33: hey
<cbx33> I'm back
<cbx33> hi highvoltage 
<cbx33> hi Yagisan 
<cbx33> hi mhz 
<cbx33> and a ping for HedgeMage 
<highvoltage> yo cbx33 
* highvoltage wonders if it's such a good idea to drink coffee just before bed time..
* cbx33 never drinks coffee
<cbx33> but i once was ddicted to diet coke
<mhz> highvoltage: it all depends if you wanna get some sleep or just read or keep fingers on kbd
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I do it all the time. Thats why I'm in bed now sleeping
<mhz> cbx33: you are then one deleting emails just before i get to do it ?
<mhz> :D
<mhz> Yagisan: lol
<cbx33> nope not i mhz 
<cbx33> but edubuntu-devel is getting a lot of spam
<Yagisan> cbx33: your a pom - is it the queens birthday today ?
<highvoltage> i was also addicted to coke. it was quite bad.
<highvoltage> Yagisan: lol!
<cbx33> i dunno
<cbx33> highvoltage, did you get the headaches afterwards
<cbx33> i stopped drinking it cold turkey and had a headache for a week afterwards
<Yagisan> cbx33: apparently it's the queens birthday public holiday today - but different states do it on different days - so I was wondering which queens birthday is the cause of the shops being closed
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> sorry Yagisan I'm clueless
<cbx33> unless she programs in python I don't know much about her
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, bad headaches.
<cbx33> can i ask...
<highvoltage> cbx33: but getting myself to stop was difficult, we always have coke in the house
<cbx33> anyone here experienced and RSI symptoms?
<highvoltage> i used to drink 2-3 liters every day
<cbx33> highvoltage, me too
<cbx33> gonna go see my doctor....really worried abotu it
<cbx33> seeing as coding is all I'm good at
<highvoltage> yeah, seeing your doctor is probably a good idea.
<cbx33> highvoltage, you ever had any symptoms?
<Yagisan> cbx33: yeah - I got RSI
<cbx33> Yagisan, bad?
<highvoltage> i use my own style of typing. i don't know if it's ideal, but i've been typing like this since i were 7, and haven't had any problems yet, so i don't think there's a problem with the way i type.
<Yagisan> cbx33: somewhat. Really need to rest up or it will get worse
<Yagisan> cbx33: so I switched to my left hand for two weeks
* Yagisan has no intention of cutting off an income stream because of RSI. The doctor ain't paying me to rest
<highvoltage> thursday evening... a friend and i were driving around
<highvoltage> my laptop was on the back seat, connect to the internet via gprs/edge, and he connected from his laptop to mine via wi-fi
<highvoltage> and had irssi running. he asked for directions to the guy we were driving too (who happened to be on irc)
<highvoltage> i thought that it would be quite cool if voice recognition worked well in linux, then i could do this more often.
<highvoltage> i also realised that accessibility features can actually be real handy in a lot of cases, not just for people who have a disability.
<cbx33> highvoltage, how do you type?
<highvoltage> i can think of a few cases where it might be handy for my computer to 'listen' to me instead of having to type.
<cbx33> well I probably use a computer about 16 hours a day at the moment
<highvoltage> cbx33: instead of usinf f and j as home keys, i use d and k. and instead of using my index fingers there, i use middle fingers.
<highvoltage> and i keep my hands at an angle, like you would on a microsoft natural keyboard
<highvoltage> so i almost always have fingers on all rows
<highvoltage> hmmm... actually, if you'd try to do it on what i've just said it won't work
<highvoltage> i'll have to physically show you sometime.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I found a voice recognition app some time ago, but the guy that wrote was hired by a windows voice recognition software firm, and then the source disappeared :(
<cbx33> rats
<cbx33> sometimes I wake up in the morming with slight pain in my fingers
<highvoltage> :/
<cbx33> but my mum told me there is a history of rhematism (however you spell it) and arthritis
<cbx33> in the fingers
<cbx33> in our family
<highvoltage> afaik, RSI is something you feel more in the wrist
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> and in fact
<Yagisan> cbx33: I have it all up my right arm. mainly wrist and elbow
<cbx33> CTS is usually accompanied by numbness which i don't feel
<cbx33> Yagisan, yikes
<cbx33> my eyes are screwed too
<cbx33> when I'm tired they cross quite badly
<cbx33> i got like double vision constantly for anything over about 5-7 metres
<cbx33> :S(
<Yagisan> my vision is too good. better then 20/20
<cbx33> realy?
<cbx33> wow
<Yagisan> yeah
<highvoltage> i often see slightly blurry. i first thought it was because i spend too much time in front of pc.
<Yagisan> there is a catch though
<cbx33> oh?
<highvoltage> but lately i've been wondering if i'm slightly diabetic.
<cbx33> we're a rght bunch aren't we
<Yagisan> I'm sensitive to light. It causes severe migranes, and it's because of my better then normal vision
<highvoltage> i drink a lot of water too, and sometimes have a real good apetite, while other times i can go a day without eating. whcih is kind of diabetic symptoms.
<cbx33> Yagisan, really?
<highvoltage> Yagisan: you said you live in skin cancer capital, right?
<Yagisan> cbx33: really.
<cbx33> highvoltage, I drink a lot of water
<Yagisan> highvoltage: yes
<cbx33> Yagisan, you wear shades a lot?
<Yagisan> cbx33: part of the reason I like night shift is it's darker
<highvoltage> Yagisan: remember you were a bit concerned a while back, did you get any feedback from the doctor?
<Yagisan> cbx33: no, I don't own a pair of shades
<cbx33> brb
<Yagisan> highvoltage: 2 moles removed, 3rd is being removed
* highvoltage is a bit of a night animal too... too bad work doesn't allow me to work at night and sleep at day
* Yagisan wishes he never had to do day work - but I need to :(
<highvoltage> is it painful?
<cbx33> Yagisan, I'll keep you in my thoughts
<DanielC> Where does Yagisan live?
<Yagisan> DanielC: Sydney, Australia
<DanielC> Ok.
<cbx33> Yagisan, wanna try doom again?
<highvoltage> goodnight guys
<cbx33> or is it still broked
<cbx33> nn HedgeMage 
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I'm a wuss, so I've decided to freeze them off with liquid nitrogen. It stings a bit, but should have less scars
<cbx33> nn highvoltage 
<Yagisan> DanielC: the hole on the ozone layer, it covers Antarctica and a large part of Australia depending on the time of year
<Yagisan> DanielC: as a result, we get a lot of skin cancer here
<DanielC> Yagisan: Yes. I know that the southern tip of Chile and Argentina is the worst.
<DanielC> Yeah.
<Yagisan> not to blame anyone, USA and Europe
<DanielC> It must be pretty bad in Australia.
<Yagisan> oops, sorry it just popped out
<DanielC> Oh, /I'll/ blame the USA at least.
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> Yagisan, doom network working yet?
* Yagisan bets it would be fixed quickly if we could push the hole to the northern hemisphere for a while
<Yagisan> cbx33: yes & no
<DanielC> They produce more pollution than Europe though they have fewer people. Europe is at least making an attempt to move to clean energy.
<cbx33> wanna try it?
<Yagisan> cbx33: I'm not getting *NIX boxes to talk at the moment. Win32 seems ok though. So we can't at the moment
<cbx33> :(
<Yagisan> :(
* cbx33 pops off for a qiuick game
<Yagisan> have fun
<cbx33> oh btw
<cbx33> sound still only works if I run the game from the console
<Yagisan> DanielC: yep. The USA won't switch with the current president.
<Yagisan> cbx33: really odd
<crimsun_> gah, the "sound" highlight strikes again
<Yagisan> crimsun_: heh. just a timidity/sdlmixer issue
<crimsun_> ok, as long as it's not broken alsa
<Yagisan> crimsun_: not that I'm aware of - although I've heard reports of broken openal with alsa
* crimsun_ points at openal :p
<crimsun_> "alsa's not broken!"
<crimsun_> (...except for several rather critical bugs in LP, ahem)
<Yagisan> crimsun_: heh. as long as I hear the system beeping at me, it's working
<RobinShepheard> greetings everybody
<cbx33> hi RobinShepheard 
<cbx33> *bah* can't get that darn red keycard
<RobinShepheard> hiya cbx33, go on whats the game??
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: Classic Doom/Doom2
<Yagisan> cbx33: sure you can.
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: cool, how is your daughters hand??
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: sore. still somewhat mangled so she'll be left handed for a while
<Yagisan> it was a bloody mess :(
* Yagisan can see sunlight
<RobinShepheard> ouch, how is she feeling, apart from sore? Is she happy enough now
<Yagisan> noo!!! I must get back to my coffin before the suns rays fry me
<RobinShepheard> lol, what days is it for you, sunday morning??
<RobinShepheard> if I think I may have found a possible bug, should it be reported via the edubuntu-dev mailing list or via here??
<RobinShepheard> or both??
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: it's monday 7am. She's having trouble eating, but otherwise she's getting better
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: all bugs should go to launchpad, or they get lost
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: https://launchpad.net/
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: good to hear about your daughter, I will check out launch pad
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: it's not exactly intuitive to use, but it used to be worse
* Yagisan grumbles
<RobinShepheard> yeah, I have found relevant section, my sister found a couple of possible ones
<Yagisan> my son heard the microwave, and has woken up and  expects a feed
<RobinShepheard> how old is he??
<Yagisan> 6 months
<crimsun_> it's amazing how young we become conditioned
<RobinShepheard> sounds like you got yuor hands full there
<Yagisan> yeah. he hears "ding" then I hear "waaaaaaaaahh"
<Yagisan> yes. typing one handed
<RobinShepheard> lol
<Yagisan> he's a pig. he eats more then I do
<Yagisan> no wonder he is 10kg
<RobinShepheard> daft question, if you go into gcompris and try and load chess, it says that you need gnuchess installed, and it is not by default, should I list this as a possible bug as it affects the overall package??
<RobinShepheard> 10kg is not bad going for 6 months
<RobinShepheard> oh and there is an issue if you try and do the geography lvl 4 I think, you get to do the entire african continent and there is a missing file
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: it's pushing obese based on standards here. Considering all family history, he is huge - and it's mostly muscle.
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I wouldn't worry, I was much the same, now I am only slightly overweight (about 2kg) and that is down to a fondness of beer
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: It won't hurt to file a bug on gcompris, but I suspect gnuchess is universe isn't it
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I dont know for certain, will check
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I'm bad. sometimes I tease him and call him "Sumo", but as it is muscle I'm not too worried. muscle weighs more then fat.
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: It actually appears to be in the main repository
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: that was always my excuse :)
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: might not be enough space on the cd then
<RobinShepheard> true
<RobinShepheard> only other thing I have found is on my machine all the tool buttons go black after you click on the first one in kig, but that may be just my display settings, I am going to have to check when I get access to the other machine in the office
<Yagisan> ugh, he is a pig. 500ml of milk gone
<Yagisan> have ever tried to drink half a liter of milk in one sitting - it's not easy
<Yagisan> great, he wants more :(
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: no kidding, just wait till he finds beer
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: at least it won't be my beer. I hate the stuff
<Yagisan> now sprits on the other hand - mm yummy
<RobinShepheard> lol, what is your poison then??
* Yagisan likes his Umeshu
<Yagisan> translates as Japanese plum wine
<RobinShepheard> I don't know that one, don't think I have ever seen umeshu here in the uk.
<EmxBA> hi folks
<RobinShepheard> hiya EmxBA
<EmxBA> few days ago i told you some things about my linux site
<EmxBA> skolarci.linux.org.ba
<RobinShepheard> yeah
<EmxBA> the one you said that you are going to add the link on edubuntu.com
<EmxBA> when i translate it
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I had my in-laws leave me several bottles when they were last over
<RobinShepheard> ahh that was not me
<EmxBA> and you said that you would like different theme
<EmxBA> something like tango
<EmxBA> i've changed it
<EmxBA> erm...
<EmxBA> look at http://skolarci.linux.org.ba/index.php?option=com_poll&task=results&id=14
<EmxBA> i just need to change this banner
<EmxBA> no problem
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I take it that it is not easily available in aus then
<EmxBA> RobinShepheard: that was highvoltage
<EmxBA> highvoltage: hi
<EmxBA> what's new
<EmxBA> i just wanted to say that
<EmxBA> and i gotta go soon
<EmxBA> so hurry if you have any questions
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I can get it, at larger bottle shops (none near me), but my mother in law makes an absolutely fantastic Umeshu
<Yagisan> very strong stuff :-D
<RobinShepheard> EmxBA: looks pretty good to me, pity I cant really understand it :)
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: makes??? as in home-brew
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: yep :)
<EmxBA> RobiShepheard, yes
<EmxBA> you may not understand it
<EmxBA> it is on bosnian :D
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: got my female friends plastered in no time
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: is it a case of like the hungarians, do they distill it??
<EmxBA> so gotta go
<EmxBA> i'll translate it in few days
<RobinShepheard> bye EmxBA
* Yagisan was still sober after scoffing down most of the bottle
<EmxBA> see ya
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I'm not sure exactly how she makes it, but it is distilled
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: plastered = blind drunk
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: If you like stuff like that you ought to try hungarian palinka, they make and distill that at home and the silva one is made from plums silva = plums
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: we use the expression plastered here as well
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: palinka, 
<RobinShepheard> doh
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: palinka comes out at about 50-60%abv
<Yagisan> had I been single it may have been an eventful night O:-), but I'm not, and I rather like having my balls attached
<RobinShepheard> but it has a great taste
<RobinShepheard> lol
* Yagisan may be breaking out the Umeshu again on Friday
<Yagisan> I'll find out my my new Uni application is succesful
* RobinShepheard is starting to get jealous
<RobinShepheard> Uni application?? as a student or teacher??
<Yagisan> student (they won't let me teach without a bachelors, even though I can paper a wall with my qualifications, and actually enjoy teaching)
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: show off :)
<Yagisan> no need to be jealous of my Umeshu. It's only out 2-3 times a year. otherwise the house is alcohol free for the kids safety
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: thank you. I worked hard for those useless pieces of paper, I may as well show off.
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I have to completely agree with you, after all nobody else really gives you the credit you are due for the work that goes into things like that
<Yagisan> yep. they helped in getting 0 jobs
<Yagisan> 4+years of study, and what, nothing. gee thanks
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I have some mates who went to uni and know far more than me and they are stacking shelves in a supermarket, I have no qualifications and I am an IT manager for a stockbrokers, there is no realy justice to it
<RobinShepheard> *real
<RobinShepheard> I guess I was just in the right place at the right time
* Yagisan watched his job get outsourced to cheaper, unqualified labour in india, because they would work for less then my train fare to work
* RobinShepheard commiserates with Yagisan
* Yagisan now employees himself. It is bloody hard, but at least I know I'm useful
<RobinShepheard> The only reason my job is still there is that they need someone on site to tell them there is no paper in the printer, or change the toner cartridge otherwise my job would have probably gone the same way
* RobinShepheard used to run his own company but now works for one of his old clients
<RobinShepheard> I gave it up for a regular pay check
* Yagisan plans to piss off to japan the same day as his bachelors ends up in his hand
<RobinShepheard> nice, I would love to see japan one day
<Yagisan> I'll toss the keys to the landlord, pack up my pc, and buy a one way ticket
<Yagisan> if I scam it right in two weeks, I may leave sooner
* RobinShepheard is now really envious on Yagisan
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: what is happening in 2 weeks then??
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: after all the crap I've had in this country, and seeing that they care more about illegal boat people, then their own citizens, I'll be happy to go
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I'm going to the Japanese embassy to attempt my biggest sell
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I'm going to try for their JET program, without a bachelors
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: JET???
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: http://www.jetprogramme.org/e/index.html
<RobinShepheard> Oh I got you, my cousin did that, she taught english in japan
<RobinShepheard> she reeeaally enjoyed her time in japan
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: yep. I get in, then re-open my business :)
<RobinShepheard> good luck to you
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: the difference is, I already have permanent residency
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I don't need a Working Visa - heh heh
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: that has got to be a serious advantage, is that because your are married to a japanese lady then??
<Yagisan> then, I can dump the kids with the in-laws and spend some time with my wife at last
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: yes.
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: she was a hard catch too
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: But worth it I take it :)
<RobinShepheard> dont answer that one
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: absolutely. 7 years so far
<RobinShepheard> I had a time catching my fiancee, happiest days of my life so far (2 years so far)
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I met mine right after I got evicted from my share accommodation. the owner lost the house in her divorce.
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: best thing that has ever happened to me, but although we have no kids I still find it hard enough to spend much time with her
<RobinShepheard> * much should really be enough
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I know what you mean
<RobinShepheard> I ended up working with my fiancee, worst bit is she has known my mum longer than she has known me
<Yagisan> anyway, as it is 8am, and I've been here all night, so I'll duck off to bed soon
<RobinShepheard> she now works for a different company
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: good night
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: heh. my "family" has never met my wife, they don't even know I married
<RobinShepheard> I am very close to my family, so it not really an option
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: I take it you don't see eye to eye with them
<RobinShepheard> again leave answering that one if you want
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: mine chose ciggies over kids and dumped me on the streets, so yeah. I'm not close (read I would cause great harm to them if I see them)
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: sorry, didn't mean to bring that up
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: no worries, I'm reminded daily anyway
<Yagisan> I learnt everything about being a parent from them. Just do the exact opposite and it turns out well
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: how come??
<RobinShepheard> ahh sorry I got you
<Yagisan> RobinShepheard: I have no one to help with the kids for starters
<Yagisan> anyway. me -> bed. Wife is waiting impatiently
<Yagisan> bbl
<RobinShepheard> Yagisan: alright, see you later, good night
<cbx33> nn all
#edubuntu 2007-06-04
<jonathan_> Need some assistance w/ a LTSP setup and a cotent filter
<wf_c0d3r> where can i get an edubuntu with correct md5 hashes? all of my downloads has an error
<TJVV> hi all, I'm a linux neophyte, but am interested in setting up an edubuntu lab in a school in india
<TJVV> I have booted the LiveCD, and I would like to know whether there are additional educational software resources available for other sources
<TJVV> I would be interested to know if there is any software for settign up a language lab in edubuntu..
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by a language lab
<TJVV> an outdated(?) wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_lab
<TJVV> I have had people approach the school with packaged solutions costing ~$9000, which is kind of high, from what I have seen of their software
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not aware of any such software specifically for setting up a language lab
<LaserJock> I wonder if it would be too much strain for a LTSP setup
<LaserJock> if it could do it it would probably be pretty cool
<LaserJock> ogra: morning
<highvoltage> morning LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<LaserJock> highvoltage: do you happen to know of any good Edubuntu news stories?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I don't think so, not atm
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but I'll be sure to ping our local fridge editor as soon as I spot something ;)
<LaserJock> <Mr Burns> Exxxcellent </Mr Burns>
<jsgotangco> Edubuntu takes over the world
<cbx33> boo ya
<cliebow_> PETE!
<cbx33> hey
<cbx33> howz it going
<cliebow_> confused as evger 8~)
<cliebow_> too much real work to do...
<cbx33> heheh
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<pygi> ogra, poke
<ogra> pygi, ?
<pygi> ogra, nvm now, sorry for poking :) Wanted to bug someone for uploading :P
<ogra> ah, k
<Amaranth> pygi: you're back?
<pygi> Amaranth, back where?
<Amaranth> working on edubuntu
<pygi> I'm working on cd-recording packages right now =)
<pygi> (the upload was for something else tho this time :P)
<moquist> ogra: I was making things much more difficult than they needed to be. I just now rsynced the edubuntu-desktop install CD filesystem to an NFS server and set boot=casper netboot=nfs in the PXE config and it booted right up as if I had the CD in the drive.
<moquist> ogra: The mouse doesn't work (and it does when I boot from CD), but I'm light-years ahead of where I was.
<highvoltage> moquist: oooh!
<ogra> cool
<moquist> Oh, you also need nfsroot=10.20.1.2:/opt/ltsp/edudesktop-iso in the PXE config.
<moquist> just man casper for details
<moquist> It's so easy.
<highvoltage> moquist: wow, I tried much more difficult ways last time I tried (and didn't succeed too much)
<highvoltage> I tried to use the LTSP scripts instead of casper
<cliebow> moquist,i never did get your prelim..can you send to cliebow atttt ellsworthschools.org
<LaserJock> ogra: pingy pingy
<LaserJock> ogra: I gotta run, but I could really use an email regarding my core-dev app soonish ;-)
<willvdl> LaserJock,hiya
<bluekuja> LaserJock, :)
<bluekuja> LaserJock, need to talk with you about a document
<bluekuja> LaserJock, do you have a minute?
<LaserJock> bluekuja: quick minute
<LaserJock> willvdl: hi
<bluekuja> LaserJock, gonna pm you
<willvdl> ogra, seen one of these at all? http://linutop.com/
<willvdl> looks like an AMD thing, one of the "50x15" partners
<willvdl> ah, comes with xubuntu...
<LaserJock> 280 euros though, that seems kinda high
<t94xr> stuff the usb key, buy a laptop 80gb and mount that on top - should do it :D
<willvdl> yeah it does. was interesting to see it as part of the 50x15 initiative
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: congratulations
<moquist> cliebow: bounced it to you @ ellsworthschools
<cliebow> Much obliged..Matt
<cliebow> i was r5eally thinking unh in July..
<moquist> cliebow: keep looking at the spreadsheet... :)
<cliebow> k
<cliebow> it is BIG on my screen
<moquist> highvoltage, ogra: btw, once I stopped using my customized initrd and used the vmlinuz and initrd straight off the Edubuntu Desktop install CD ISO, everything works great.
<cliebow> heh
<cliebow> moquist: i saved that thing in word and it all of a sudden was a 50 meg file instead of 18 k 8~)
<highvoltage> moquist: great. I'm going to attempt it again this weekend. I can already more or less automate ubiquity, so I want to use it for mass-deployments
<moquist> highvoltage: that's the next step for me, too.
* moquist googles ubiquity
<moquist> Oh - is that just the name of the installer?
<pygi> yes :p
<highvoltage> moquist: cool, I'll ping you again this weekend. I've worked myself messed-up again today
<moquist> heh
<moquist> highvoltage: I'm setting up all the different ubuntu ISOs for network boot now. :)
<highvoltage> moquist: nice. I wish I knew it was so simple to set up a few weeks ago. I spent quite e few hours trying to get it work the non-casper way
<moquist> highvoltage: how do you automate ubiquity? any pointers for a total newbie to kickstart-y things?
<moquist> highvoltage: Yeah, me too.
<highvoltage> moquist: yep. it has a gtk python interface script (can't remember exactly where), if you do a locate you should be able to find it quite easily
<highvoltage> moquist: it has the concept of "screens"
<moquist> OK...
<highvoltage> in the python script it says screens=6 or 7 or something, that causes what ubituity will say when it says screen 2/7, etc
* moquist was picturing something more like a text file with answers to installation questions in it
<moquist> Hmm. OK. thanks!
<highvoltage> then, what I did to automate it for tuxlabs, was simply comment out the screens that I didn't want, and set screens=2
<highvoltage> so all that it asked was how to partition the disks, and confirm.
<moquist> right
<highvoltage> moquist: that's planned for the future, ubiquity isn't feature-complete yet :/
* moquist nods
<highvoltage> I think complete pre-seeding is planned for a future release.
<willvdl> outa here. see you tomorrow
<highvoltage> bye willvdl
<highvoltage> willvdl: will you be in durbanville tomorrow?
<willvdl> maybe. you?
<highvoltage> willvdl: yep, in the afternoon
<willvdl> gave your stuffies to Eric
<highvoltage> willvdl: thanks, I saw the pm
<willvdl> oh yeah, told you that already :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'll get it from him tomorrow
<willvdl> highvoltage, depends on the weather
<willvdl> if it's like today I'll stay at home :)
<highvoltage> yeah I worked from home today
<highvoltage> last night was the first time ever a storm woke me up - I love weather like that
<willvdl> yeah. wass wicked
<willvdl> thunder and lightning is not something we're used to down here
<moquist> highvoltage: I think you already know exactly what I did, but FWIW: http://moquist.blogspot.com/
<moquist> er... http://moquist.blogspot.com/2007/06/ubuntu-network-installs-made-easy.html
<dtrask> anyone here?  I have a sound issue....simple one
<stgraber> dtrask: what kind ?
<dtrask> Just got a Feisty server up (edubuntu) and I can't figure out how to increase the sound volume on the thin-clients
<dtrask> I thought the vol control would work....but no
<dtrask> any ideas where to begin looking?
<stgraber> hmm, I think with the new polypaudio thing the sound volume should just work ..., maybe there are some polypaudio tools available for that
<crimsun> (meaning pulseaudio)
<stgraber> hmm, yes :)
<dtrask> yeah....I thought ogra had it working, but "not for me"  :-(
<dtrask> I'll have to shoot him a message and see what he says
<cliebow_>  ogra is around someewhere..
<dtrask> is he on?  I tried over on LTSP....nothing
<dtrask> ping
<dtrask> ping
<crimsun> idle     : 0 days 5 hours 54 mins 11 secs
<crimsun> he's likely away for dinner or sleeping
<stgraber> sleeping I guess
<dtrask> yeah....late night in Germany
<crimsun> I never know with his schedule :-)
<dtrask> Oh well....I shoot an email
<stgraber> 23:12 his/my time
<dtrask> hx guys
<dtrask> thx
<dtrask> yeah....prolly sleepin'
<pygi> stgraber, not too late :P
<stgraber> indeed
#edubuntu 2007-06-05
<aze> hi all
<moquist> highvoltage: I just figured out that you mean ubiquity has *no* unattended feature right now, and I should hack the python to decide which questions to ask.
<Burgundavia> moquist: you should use the unattended stuff in d-i for productoin installations
* moquist successfully used kickstart for K12LTSP in the meantime
<moquist> kickstart is really easy, but not very powerful.
<moquist> At least, it's totally non-obvious to me how to make it just use the first hdd, whether that's hda or sda
<Burgundavia> heh
<moquist> Stuff like that. And when it doesn't like something, it wants to reboot instead of just back up and try again.
<moquist> Burgundavia: can you give me more than 'd-i' for my google query? :)
<Burgundavia> preseeding
* moquist nods...he has heard of that
<moquist> last time I looked into preseeding I found nothing at all obvious about what I should *do*.
<moquist> ah! https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/installation-guide/i386/appendix-preseed.html
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<highvoltage> moquist: yes, that's what I meant :)
<moquist> highvoltage: you could send me what you've got since it sounds a lot like what I'm looking for. :)
<jsgotangco> hey mr. highvoltage, mr. moquist
<moquist> highvoltage: I've started playing with preseeding, but the kernel param I passed didn't seem to be taken into consideration by the installer.
<moquist> jsgotangco: hey mr. jsgotangco :)
<highvoltage> hey jsgotangco
<highvoltage> moquist: the pre-seeding is currently only supported in d-i
<highvoltage> moquist: ubiquity has some /very/ partial support for pre-seeding, it's something that it will only fully support some time in the feature
<jsgotangco> man 3 laptops in front of me can be *hot*
<highvoltage> geez. I only have 2 laptops and 3 PC's atm. (well, I am still in my bedroom, so that's probably fine)
<jsgotangco> lol but having a 31C room temperature?
<RichEd> cliebow: ping ... you there ?
<pygi> morning RichEd
* RichEd waves to pygi across the hemisphere
<cliebow>  Riched:Pong..just got up
<RichEd> cliebow: hi ... I have a meeting with my boss up now ... will ping you in an hour os so
<RichEd> *or
<cliebow> il,l bee a couple hours  before i can get back top  a machine
<cliebow> 9 am edt
<cliebow> have to do support for testing in a school first thing
<Kamping_Kaiser> the 7.04 pressed cds arnt working in my laptop :(
<cliebow> booking it for Lamoine school then trenton..then ellsworth
<binks_work> hello peeps
<binks_work> at what age do you think my son should start to learn to program
* ogra visited a friend today whose son started with 3 (with daddy sitting next to him indeed) he's six now and even he cant read he finds his way around 
<aze> hi all
<binks_work> aze hi
<aze> hi binks_work
<ogra> binks_work, i think its the same as with foreign langs, the earlier the kid starts the better, but never unattended and only in short portions indeed
<binks_work> cheers and any language best to start i was thinking pos python
<binks_work> hes nearl 7 now btw
<willvdl> binks_work, even things like squeak and great to start on
<ogra> well, that depends ... python kis easy and all, but keeps you pretty much away from the basics
<ogra> but might be good for a start
<binks_work> never came across squeek will lokk at that
<binks_work> im just starting c++ so will be fun for both us
<dean_za> hi
<dean_za> i was wondering if someone could give me some pointers on converting an alternate cd ubuntu instaltin into an edubuntu instaltion
<dean_za> i used the alternate cd to be able to setup software raid
<dean_za> i have then followed the quickinstall doc and setup ltsp
<dean_za> now i want to have the thin clients see all the edubuntu sttuff because its for a school
<juliux> check if you have edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server installed
<dean_za> on the server or in the chroot
<dean_za> i tried installing then in the chroot and it did not work
<juliux> on the server
<juliux> if an user on the thinclient log in he will see all the stuff which is installed at the server
<dean_za> so what is gaied by installing stuff in the chroot ?
<juliux> the chroot is the minimal system which runs on the client
<juliux> but if you login you have a connection to the server
<juliux> so don t install stuff into the chroot
<dean_za> wasnt the muekow idea that stuff was installed in the chroot ?
<juliux> i don t think so
<juliux> but perhaps ogra can answer you your question
<dean_za> yes maybe clarification of what must / should be installed in the chroot
<ogra> the muecow idea was that you *can* install stuff in the chroot to tweak the thin client behavior if you want to, but you shouldnt do that unless you have a very valid reason and know exactly what you do, whats the problem ?
<dean_za> i read in the roadmap that they want to develop a nice way to keep it updated
<ogra> yes, it shall integrate with the servers update-manager
<dean_za> also why copy the apt sources.list if you never really going to install stuff ?
<dean_za> i was trying to get from alternate ubuntu to edubuntu
<dean_za> thought i had to install in the chroot
<ogra> nope
<dean_za> but that didint work
<ogra> just install edubuntu-desktop on the server
<dean_za> not edubuntu-servre or any of the otthers ?
<ogra> the stuff you can do tho the chroot isnt related in any way to the users desktop session
<dean_za> because its tunneling evrything through ssh right ?
<ogra> right
<dean_za> what about the switches avilable when doing the ltsp-build-client
<dean_za> --dist ?
<dean_za> is that for architecture ? i386 / ppc etc
<ogra> you could try to build an edgy chroot on feisty or so ... but i wouldn know why you want to do that :) its a historical swith we initially used for installs on debian vs ubuntu
<ogra> so you could do --dist sarge
<ogra> or --dist sid
<dean_za> ok
<ogra> instead of the default
<ogra> all these switches are only to override defaults if you need that
<dean_za> does it matter wether you build the ltsp before or after you install edubuntu-desktop ?
<ogra> which is usually not the case for normal usage
<ogra> yes, since feisty it matters for the usplash artwork
<dean_za> so desktop first then build ltsp ?
<ogra> ltsp-build-client checks if edubuntu-artwork is installed on the server, if so it switches the chroot to edubuntu artwork
<ogra> yes
<dean_za> thanks
<dean_za> i can safely just delete my busted ltsp dir ?
<ogra> yup
<dean_za> any advice for setting up the vnc stuff
<dean_za> i have not been able to use the share desktop feature
<dean_za> i did manage before to get the vnc viewing working , but not full screen only in the little windows
<ogra> you need to enable sharing for your desktop generllay first ...
<ogra> look in the gnome settings
<dean_za> what was the motivation for the small viewer
<dean_za> will that work when the teacher is on a thin client to ?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> since it runs on the server :)
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients
<dean_za> i read that to get the other part of the TCM working
<ogra> thats one of the tweaks i mentioned above that muecow makes possible btw :)
<cbx33> did I hear TCM?
<cbx33> hey ogra dude!
<cbx33> long time no see
<dean_za> i didnt figure it was for the teacher as well
<ogra> yeah
<dean_za> i will try once my ltsp is rebuilt
<cbx33> it's been so hectic here
<tristan_> eya ppl
<tristan_> question: how's the support for sound on edubuntu thin clients?
<tristan_> and what happens when another user plays a vid for example?
<tristan_> does it playback sound on the other clients as well?
<tristan_> or what?
<ogra> indeed
<tristan_> hmmz
<ogra> ltsp sound uses alsa
<tristan_> so I have to remove all the users from the group sound?
<tristan_> and only add myself to it?
<ogra> with pulseaudio for the network transport to the client
<tristan_> or audio or whatever that group is named
<tristan_> :P
<tristan_> ?
<ogra> if you only want yourself to be able to hear sounds, ten yes, remove all others from the audio group
<tristan_> ok :)
<ogra> you can as well only enable sound on one terminal
<tristan_> ohw.. that's nice :)
<ogra> by adding an entry to the lts.conf file
<ogra> and removing SOUND=True from the default entry
<ogra> so the soundserver will only run on the client you defined
<tristan_> maybe I want to configure this "mediapc" as thin client too
<tristan_> since video is working fine on the thin clients
<tristan_> and the server is more powerfull then this pc too
<ogra> you can av multiple indiccvidual entries in that file
<tristan_> and I also don't want to setup samba/LDAP to get the same users/files on this pc
<ogra> but why dont you wnt your users to have sound ?
<tristan_> I want them to have sound
<tristan_> in the future ;p
<ogra> then whats there should be perfect without tweaking
<ogra> ah, ok
<tristan_> but I don't want them to have sound in this internetcaf
<tristan_> :P
<ogra> right
<tristan_> I have 2 thin clients and one old PC for mediafiles
<tristan_> and I maybe want to install that mediapc as thin client to
<ogra> so look at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<tristan_> ok
<ogra> there is a [default]  section ...
<ogra> remove the sound entry there
<ogra> look up the MAC address of your client you want to have sound on
<ogra> add a line with the MAC address just like the default line in angled brackets
<ogra> and add SOUND=True below it
<tristan_> :)
<tristan_> do you think it's a good choice to use a thinclient for playback media?
<ogra> well
<ogra> if you want it to be a mediapc, i'D instal the mythtv frontend in a special /opt/ltsp/mediapc chroot and make it boot that from the dhcpd.conf file
<ogra> and run the mythtv backend on the server
<ogra> thix way you can have a very low powered client (without fan etc) in your living room ... and use the storage power of the server
<ogra> s/thix/this/
<tristan_> do dualscreen setups work with thin clients?
<tristan_> I use this one for internet as well
<ogra> well, if you use a static xorg.conf
<ogra> see /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz
<ogra> and there is an example lts.conf in that dir as well
<tristan_> it's possible to use normale a xorg.conf?
<zek> Question about edubuntu
<tristan_> *normal
<tristan_> if a regular xorg.conf works I may use my old multiseat setup as well
<zek> will install to the hard disk install a server version with a gui or not
<tristan_> with gui
<tristan_> if you're talking about edubuntu
<tristan_> I didn't try ubuntu server yet
<zek> so i can use it as a desktop? yes edubuntu
<tristan_> it is a desktop install with some servercomponents as well
<zek> it includes the ltsp correct?
<tristan_> yep
<tristan_> actually the thin clients are using the workstation environment on your server
<tristan_> :P
<zek> i have version 6.06 can i upgrade that or am i stuck with 6.06
<zek> wait what do you mean
<tristan_> you may upgrade..
<tristan_> the thinclients use the environment on  your server
<tristan_> the same one as you may use when you login on the server
<zek> what is the difference between option 1 Install to the hard disk and option 2 Install a workstation
<tristan_> workstation doesn't serve
<zek> ok thanks i will begin installing immediately
<zek> thank you very much. #ubuntu is very busy and was not getting back to me
<zek> sorry what ip address should i use on the config the network settings?
<zek> should i make one up or leave it blank?
<tristan_> the networkinterface mentioned during the setup is the connection to the internet
<zek> ok.  when i looked on the webpage it said that option 1 installed a terminal server.  Does it also install gnome or kde etc?
<zek> Question.  Can a thin client use a wireless card?
<ogra> no
<ogra> well, it can but nor for booting from it ...
<ogra> *not
<ogra> i.e. you could build a special thin client by tweaking a lot to become an AP
<ogra> but you cant use the wlan for your nfsroot to boot from
<zek> ok i was installing it then the screen went blank during the chroot LTSP 50%. there are two small grey rectangles on the screen. Help?
<ogra> it should come back, thats the xserver package being installed in your chroot
<ogra> it defaults to probe the servers graphics card
<ogra> but switches back afterwards
<zek> how long ive install ubuntu (derivatives) before. It has never taken this long
<zek> btw I have an integrated intel piece of crap
<zek> wait its spinning the hd
<ogra> dont say that
<ogra> the intel graphics cards are the best out there if you are no hardcore gamer
<ogra> they are teh only company that fully releases all specs for the 3D part of the chips ... the 3D support is the best ou can get with linux
<zek> not the ones that come with the dell dimensions
<ogra> classes better than nvidia or ati
<ogra> indeed the HW is moot compared to nvidia or ati ...
<ogra> but for desktop use with 3D effects there is nothing better than intel
<tristan_> lala... my give-away-store is allmost finished :)
<tristan_> after 4 months of work in this house
<zek> good never tried it with linux.  On xp it wont run good games had to get a radeon 9250 (pci) to run anything because dell didn't put in an AGP slot
<tristan_> pci-x maybe?
<zek> nope
<zek> 3-4 years old
<zek> My comp hasn't displayed anything else in the last 10-20 minutes
<tristan_> edubuntu server install takes a long time
<zek> ok i need to work on patience anyways
<tristan_> especially at that point
<tristan_> well patience sux
<tristan_> live is short
<tristan_> life i mean
<tristan_> and it doesn't kill you when you get tired of something slow
<tristan_> :P
<ogra> what video mode did you select at the beginning of the install ?
<ogra> try some other ...
<zek> Thank you all for your help. Everyone at my house wants to get the pc up incuding me because they use mine.  XP got some adware or something and my parents never removed the junkware dell puts on it
* ogra wasnt aware zek is in the installer
<zek> just curious.  How long am i looking at? Roughly, i dont expect it in ticks
<ogra> the ltsp setp in the installer ?
<ogra> 10 mins or so
<ogra> max 20 with a slow CDrom
<zek> its been 30 at least but my cd drive is spinnins and hd is spinning. I just dont know where it is becaue the screen is screwed up. (to put it technically)
<ogra> yes, see what i said above
<ogra> some dells do weird things to the frambuffer from the BIOS
<zek> what do u mean
<ogra> <ogra> what video mode did you select at the beginning of the install ?
<ogra> <ogra> try some other ...
<ogra> ^^^^
<zek> just end the install?
<ogra> look if you can switch to console 4
<zek> how?
<ogra> (hit alt-f4)
<zek> nothing
<ogra> and then switch back with alt-f1
<zek> is it ctrl atl or just alt
<ogra> just alt
<ogra> ctrl is only needed in X
<zek> ok. nothing happend
<ogra> well, if the cdrom doesnt spin even if you hit enter on console 1 then rather restart the install and choose a different video mode
<zek> the cdrom spins and the hd activity light comes on. Could it just be installing without display?
<zek> the keyboard numpad light works
<ogra> you can just hit enter blindly indeed, but no promises yo dont allow weird things then :)
<ogra> if the CD comes out the tray its done
<zek> the hd started acting after i hit enter
<zek> it worked
<zek> the cd came out
<ogra> ok, another enter and the machine should reboot
<zek> thanks ive never done a blind install
<zek> Wow Thanks it looks sweet
<zek> is there an easy way to get the desktop effects
<ogra> is that feisty ?
<zek> no 6.06
<ogra> then you can just check the checkbox in the desktop-settings tool
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thats ancient, there are no desktop effects
<zek> can i upgrade
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but that taes a lot of bandwith
<ogra> you can only upgrade release to release, not kip one inbetween
<ogra> *skip
<ogra> so that means 6.06 to 6.10 and then to 7.04
<zek> my internet doesn't work
<ogra> i suspect downloading feisty and installing from iso would be faster and easier
<zek> it works on the pc im typing on but not on the new install
<zek> any ideas?
<tristan_> it's connected to a router?
* LaserJock hugs ogra
<ogra> :)
<ogra> hope you'll make it
<LaserJock> it's looking that way
* LaserJock has his fingers crossed
<ogra> edubuntu on german tv :)
<ogra> http://www.linux4afrika.de/linuxtag_big.avi
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> now I wish I could understand German
<ogra> well, linux4africa uses edubuntu
<ogra> its a report abut them, but also mentioning ubuntu
<moquist> highvoltage: Ah; I didn't know enough about d-i to realize how completely ubiquity departs from it.
<ogra> it doesnt ?
<ogra> ubiquitiy is in 95% only a plain frontend to d-i
<moquist> ogra: Well, highvoltage was telling me that ubiquity doesn't support preseeding.
<ogra> there are 5% difference though
<ogra> huh ?
<moquist> I perhaps drew the wrong degree of conclusion...
<moquist> or maybe highvoltage is wrong...
<ogra> it does
<moquist> Oh, good. :)
<ogra> dont ask me how, but i'm sure it uses preseeding extensively since thats what ubuntu uses
<ogra> for making the install comortable
<moquist> That makes sense; I wonder why highvoltage thought it didn't?
<moquist> ogra: I'm on to automated installs now that I have the LiveCDs booting happily via PXE.
<moquist> (which was far, far easier than I made it)
<LaserJock> ogra: do you happen to know how the applications.menu is created for the app-install directory on the Add-on CD?
<ogra> LaserJock, by g-a-i-data or so
<ogra> which is genrated from all -desktop files in main somehow
<ogra> *.desktop
<LaserJock> well, actually the existing applications.menu is just the same as what's on an installed system
<LaserJock> it's basically the gnome default
<LaserJock> we need to change it
<LaserJock> but I'm wondering how it gets on the CD in the first place
<ogra> mvo will know
<ruivaldo> Hi, i tried to run gnome-orca from a ltsp thin client, but the sound dosent executes. But this same station plays music right. Somebody may help me fix this ?
<ruivaldo> My friend is visually impaired and need help
<LaserJock> ogra: I talked to mvo, he thought it might be in the ubuntu-cdimage bzr, but we couldn't find it. He said to ask pitti
<LaserJock> who doesn't seem to be online right now
<ogra> no, not even in the canonical network ... i think he finished the day
<LaserJock> the other thing that needs to happen is for the .desktops of the add-on CD packages to be "good"
<LaserJock> i.e. have enough Categories that I can sort them well
<LaserJock> I think I'm going to write up a script that just goes through the .desktops and spits out a decent report on what Categories exist
<LaserJock> if it doesn't look so good I can do one of two things
<LaserJock> either patch the packages with better .desktops
<LaserJock> or manually put the applications where I want them in the menu
<ogra> LaserJock, i think the latter is more reasonable ...
<ogra> using a script and list we maintain ourselves
<ogra> patching all .desktop files will be a horible job
<LaserJock> if it's only 1 or 2 that aren't great I think the former might be easier
<ogra> oh, ok
<LaserJock> but I think in the long run, from looking at .desktop and the .desktop spec
<LaserJock> I just don't think we are going to have the flexibility we want
<LaserJock> I think we'll *want* to create our own
<LaserJock> so perhaps writing a script up now is a reasonable thing
<LaserJock> like, if I want to split up preschool, primary, secondary
<LaserJock> there's no way to do that with existing .desktop Categories
<LaserJock> I'd have to do that manually
<LaserJock> and given that we have to add new apps to seeds anyway
<LaserJock> added new apps to a script shouldn't be much more work
<LaserJock> in the future I'd like to think that the application review DB would help us with that
<highvoltage> moquist, ogra: last when I customised ubiquity (Edgy), it didn't use d-i fully as a back-end yet, and it only had /very/ partial preseeding support (mostly insufficient for any real large-scale deployment)
<ogra> hmm
<highvoltage> moquist, ogra: that might have changed in feisty, but I doubt that there's that big a difference
<sbalneav> ogra: Still about?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> sbalneav, LaserJock goes for core-dev tonight (TB meeitng in 45min)
<ogra> indeed i'm attending
<sbalneav> My users are constantly getting evolution bugzilla reports when they start up.  It's from the alarm notifier
<sbalneav> Now, we're not running evolution, so how would I remove that globally from their startup?
<sbalneav> It doesn't look like it's in /usr/share/gnome/default.session
<ogra> form the startup ?
* ogra doesnt have evolution in any default startups
<sbalneav> No, but the notifier starts up
<sbalneav> to check for alarms
<ogra> thats part of the panel
<ogra> particulary of the calendar applet
<sbalneav> ah, ok
<ogra> that needs evolution-data-server and evolution-alarm-blah...
<ogra> sbalneav, apt-cache rdepends evolution-data-server
<ogra> shows binary packages that depend on e-d-s
<moquist> it is pooooooouuuuuuuuuring here.
<moquist> shoot - wrong channel. sorry.
* ogra hands moquist an umbreally to at least save the HW
<cliebow_> moquist:thanks for heads up
<ogra> *umbrella
<cliebow_> i was wait ing for cinderelly to pass the mbreally
<moquist> hehe
<cliebow_> 8~)
<ogra> :)
<moquist> ogra: it's Xorg 7.3 that does away with xorg.conf, right?
* moquist vaguely remembers ogra mentioning so
<ogra> yes
<ogra> in gutsy you can run completely without config file
<moquist> already?
<ogra> (which is what i do everywhere now)
* moquist guesses so
<ogra> yep
<ogra> the codedrop of the X detection in ltsp will happen on friday
<moquist> So I could just upgrade a (test!) feisty edubuntu server to gutsy, and (separately?) upgrade the TC chroot, and try it out.
<ogra> yes
* moquist will do that
<cliebow_> moquist is Cookin'
<ogra> moquist, from friday on all gutsy chroots will do that :)
<moquist> With a 4.2 kernel and sdm (sorry, ldm) and a static xorg.conf I got those infernal laptops to present a login screen in 154s.
<ogra> i have to find a proper way for the keymap setting though
<moquist> ogra: should I upgrade by hand or just wait and do it next monday? I'm in no rush.
<ogra> as you like :)
<moquist> 6-1 half-dozen the other.
* moquist nods
<ogra> also the gutsy kernel seems to boot faster than feisty
<ogra> you should try that one too on the slow clients
<willvdl> highvolt1ge, petrol goes up at midnight! Fill up those spare barrels boetie
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> it's gone down liek $0.04 here lately
<LaserJock> *like
<LaserJock> $0.04/gallon I should say
<willvdl> LaserJock, send some over here. IF we do it in bulk then wecan split the profits
<LaserJock> willvdl: how much does it cost there?
<willvdl> erm, I don't know...
<willvdl> I'll find out in the next hour when I fill my car
<LaserJock> heh
<willvdl> it's probably about 3 chickens, a handful of corn and friendly smile per litre
<willvdl> brb
<willvdl> LaserJock, it's just under a dollar
<LaserJock> US dollar?
<willvdl> yip
<willvdl> R6.80
<willvdl> going up to R7.oo
<willvdl> ZAR:US$ = about 7ish:1
<willvdl> http://www.despair.com/pessimistsmug.html <-- I want one
<LaserJock> it's about R6.25 here then
<LaserJock> man, I'm realizing today how much google runs my life
<willvdl> I'm realising how much beryl runs my life
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I've yet to use it really
<LaserJock> I did one 2 min test on my server machine at home
<LaserJock> but that's the only computer I own that'll run it
<crimsun> mayhap I'm simply unaware of its versatility, but I haven't found any plugins that "enhance my productivity"
<crimsun> I find myself using whiteboards and dry erase markers more and more
#edubuntu 2007-06-06
<LaserJock> well, I use it pretty heavily for email, calendaring, RSS
<LaserJock> then there's google groups from my LUG, there's notebook, scholar, translation
<LaserJock> s/from/for/
<crimsun> I use Google for Web searches.
<LaserJock> sometimes I even do that ;-)
<crimsun> I have a gmail account, but I never use it.  It's also connected to my blog, which I never use.
<LaserJock> too busy doing important things I guess
<crimsun> I told you - I'm the world's most proficient tea drinker and jelly belly ingester.
<LaserJock> actually, if I wasn't constantly going between OS X, Ubuntu, at home and at work I wouldn't use Google as much either
<LaserJock> but Google Reader isn't my favorite RSS reader
<LaserJock> but I like that I can mark something read at work and get home and it's still read ;-)
<willvdl> LaserJock, who said anything about productivity?
<willvdl> I can "beam up" my closing windows
<willvdl> that's jsut cool :)
<willvdl> only problem is my window title bars and edges have disappeared
<Francis_Albert_l> hi
<pips1> good morning
<LaserJock> morning pips1
<pips1> wow, you're up late, aren't you?
<pips1> what's you're time diff?
<LaserJock> I'm at -7
<LaserJock> so it's almost 1am
<pips1> right-y-o
<dean_za> hi ogra , thanks for our help yesterday , i managed to get x11vnc installed but it does not work with the -forever -bg switches it works with -forever -loop &
<dean_za> i found though that if i launch TCM from a thin client it hangs the pc as soon as the vncviewer screen show its own session
<dean_za> i am going to re-install to check , before i do though i was hoping for some gudance regarding raid1 and swap
<dean_za> i have read that it slows performance which i understand
<dean_za> but it got me thinking about the ltsp swap and weere it is created
<dean_za> surely having the swap directory for ltsp on a raid1 is a bad idea ?
<dean_za> does anyone know where the swap files are created ? are they the same thing as the old swap for ltsp4.2 ? i seem to recall swap on nbd not sure what that is
<LaserJock> I have no idea, but I don't think ogra is up yet
<dean_za> sorry , the right hand screen has his name in the same font as mine , i figured it meant he was online
<LaserJock> well, he's always here :-)
<pips1> people like to leave their irc running, even if they aren't at the computer... ogra will eventually read your message though
<LaserJock> he's just not exactly always here
<pips1> (with a bit of luck)
<LaserJock> RichEd: ping?
<pips1> I don't think he is online
<LaserJock> hmm
<RichEd> hi guys ... lurking ... not feeling so good this morning
<pips1> ah
<pips1> hi RichEd
<dean_za> so anyone else have any thoughts on raid1 ?
<RichEd> change in the weather ... winter stuffy head & very little concentration ...
<pips1> same here actually!
<LaserJock> RichEd: quick question, do you want Education/Objectives stuff by email or can I edit the wiki page directly
<LaserJock> RichEd: I saw your little "Don't touch" notice at the bottom of the page
<RichEd> LaserJock: mail for the moment ... I may fiddle around in the page today
<RichEd> thanks
<LaserJock> RichEd: k
<pips1> what other channel might be worth pinging with questions about raid experiences, folks?
<RichEd> pips1: ubuntu ... edubuntu should be no different ?
<pips1> nope, no difference
<pips1> I just wonder where lots of people with raid experience might hang out? possibly #ubuntu-server or #LTSP
<pips1> dean_za: try  ^^^
<RichEd> #ubuntu-server I recokn
<RichEd> *reckon
<pips1> hmm, they recommend #ubuntu for general support, ubuntu-server is only for server kernel questions, I reckon
<pips1> still worth trying
<LaserJock> well, if the question is how is swap handled in LTSP then #ltsp seems like the logical choice
<ogra> dean_za, would you mind fixing the wiki guide wrt vnc ?
<pips1> yes, good point
<LaserJock> in fact we might want to put a notice in the topic or a bot factoid about trying #ltsp for LTSP related questions
<dean_za> orga: will do as soon as i have reinstalled and stopped the hanging
<LaserJock> ogra: did you see that bug reported about essentially blank sources.list after installing Feisty from DesktopCD?
<willvdl> my my, nautilus is doing some funny stuff today
<ogra> LaserJock, i'm way behind on bugs ... (about 200 unread mails here) whats the number ?
<LaserJock> ogra: bug #118334
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118334 in ubiquity "Edubuntu Feisty Desktop CD installation fails to install all repositories" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118334
<pips1> willvdl: what's it doing then?
<willvdl> it locks up if a specific ODT file is in a specific directory
<ogra> LaserJock, thats the right behavior if he installed without net connection
<willvdl> :)
<LaserJock> ogra: hmm, I thought he said he did have a net connection
<ogra> if the installer sees there is no network it wont add any netwourk sources
<LaserJock> ogra: but I can ask to make sure
<pips1> willvdl: ?! how bizarre
<LaserJock> ogra: he did have a net connection when I was helping him
<ogra> LaserJock, he doesnt say that in the bug
<ubunterror> Hello! Need help, tried everything in the forums. Can't get video card to work, VIA Chrome 9 HC IGP on Edubuntu 7.04
<ogra> and i know that all my installs (which are all networkless) do it like that
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, I did a LiveCD install in vmware to see and it worked fine
<LaserJock> so I think you must be right
<LaserJock> but maybe there should be some sort of warning, explanation
<ogra> ubunterror, it will work with the vesa driver or with that: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenChrome
<ogra> its a very badly (by via for linux) supported chip
<LaserJock> the poor guy couldn't figure out what was going on. He wanted the edu apps and was trying to install them via g-a-i but it wouldn't let him
<ogra> indeed
<LaserJock> he could see the apps, but couldn't install them, very frustrating
<willvdl> pips1, it's completely unreproducable :)
<pips1> hehe
<willvdl> only happens on one machine, with one file, in a specific directory
<willvdl> must be a weird inode thing
<ubunterror> ogra: tried it, error message is frequency over range
<pips1> yeah, perhaps
<ogra> ubunterror, sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<ogra> make sure to select vesa and the right values for your monitor
<ogra> that should give you an initial graphical interface
<ubunterror> ogra: tried it, picked Vesa, 1024 x 700 something resolution. No go
<ogra> "frequency out of range" means that your monitor values are wrong
<ubunterror> ogra: okay, what are the correct screen res and refresh rates?
<ogra> no idea, its your monitor
<ogra> should be in the handbook
<ubunterror> ogra: ok thanks, will check
<ludoRA> Hello
<ubunterror> Im developing a curriculum for the computer subject for K-12, using Edubuntu (we want to junk our old MS curriculum). Any useful links?
<pips1> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> pips1: pong
<pips1> do you have any links for ubunterror?
<pips1> ^^^
<RichEd> ubunterror: for computer programming subject ? I am not clear on your requirement
<pips1> ubunterror: you are looking for curriculum suggestions, rather than content, right?
<ubunterror> RichEd, pips1: I'm looking for an outline I can work on, for kids to be able to use Edubuntu, starting age 5 until age 16. This will be the computer subject for our school.
<ubunterror> I cannot find sites where there are Edubuntu activities for children.
<ubunterror> So I am developing my own, based on our current MS-based activities.
<pips1> have a look at http://schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/ICT_Curriculum
<RichEd> ubunterror: let me look around a bit for you ... what country are you doing this for as a matter of interest ?
<pips1> ubunterror: where are you based? do you need to follow national curriculum guidelines, or do you have freedom to develop own?
<pips1> ubunterror: the above link i gave is UK specific...
<ubunterror> pips1: Philippines. We have the freedom to develop, and i'm trying hard to make a curriculum and push Edubuntu to schools here, since a lot of them use unlicensed software. The link is a good outline, if there are some which are more detailed, it would be very helpful.
<RichEd> ubunterror: this page has just been started, but it may be a useful place to share info: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Lessons
<jsgotangco> nice nick btw
<ubunterror> RichEd: Thanks for the link, will look into it. I'm actually looking into a stand-alone computer subject which concentrates wholly on open source, using Edubuntu as OS.
<ubunterror> jsg: :)
<cliebow>    RichEd:how did it go yesterdaay?
<RichEd> cliebow: will get back to you is a few minutes ... let me sort out the thread with ubunterror
<RichEd> sorry ubunterror I am still not clear ... my head is fuzzy with the flu today ... are you looking to teach "computers as a subject ... i.e. programming etc." or to use computers (edubuntu) to teach general subjects
<cliebow> no prob..any timke
<ubunterror> RichEd: teaching computers as a subject. Of course, the activities will be useful as they will be related to the other subjects.
<jsgotangco> ubunterror: i am from philippines too btw ;-)
<pips1> ubunterror: I don't know if the following site will be any use to you, but cetis from the uk has lots of online resources, and some are really usefull... have a look at http://dfl.cetis.ac.uk/wiki/index.php/Main_Page ?
<RichEd> here is a Google SoC that may be related ... it is still being developed:
<RichEd> http://code.google.com/soc/ubuntu/appinfo.html?csaid=F43382157E7D628C
<RichEd> PyStart - Python Programming teaching/testing program
<ubunterror> pips1, RichEd: Thanks for your assistance! I will certainly spend some time studying these sites, and get back here for some feedback and updates.
<pips1> :-)
<RichEd> ubunterror & pips1 : comment from willvdl
<RichEd> <willvdl> Karien at TSF suggest http://www.curriki.org as one of the best there is
<pips1> *click*
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> well, the advanced search categories look promisingly structured, but I'm not sure how much content is actually there..
* pips1 investigates a bit more
<pips1> interesting... "result of ... GELC ... started by Sun Microsystems"
<pips1> maybe I should move my random mutterings over to #ubuntu-education
<ubunterror> he he he, a lot of the resources are in .doc
<pips1> :-/
* RichEd goes to lie down for a bit ... feeling pretty grim
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok :| hope you feel better soon
<moquist> Hmm. I have no virtual terminals on this feisty desktop system. I only have X.
<ogra> moquist, what graphics card ? ati ?
<moquist> nVidia Corporation NV4 [RIVA TNT]  and Intel Corporation 82915G Integrated
<moquist> dual-head
<pips1> hi moquist
<moquist> pips1: hey
<ogra> moquist, nv or nvidia driver ?
<moquist> nv
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> did you try with the nonfree one ?
<moquist> ogra: I didn't mean that somebody in here had to help me fix it. :) I was just mentioning it...
<ogra> oh, wait riva-tnt should need the -legacy driver iirc
<moquist> ogra: really? this would affect the virtual terminals starting up?
<ogra> no, but probably your possibility to switch
<ogra> are you sure there are no gettys ?
<moquist> Hmm.
<moquist> http://n01se.net/paste/O9X
<ogra>  ls /etc/event.d/
<ogra> ?
<moquist> control-alt-delete  logd  rc-default  rc0  rc1  rc2  rc3  rc4  rc5  rc6  rcS  rcS-sulogin  sulogin  tty1  tty2  tty3  tty4  tty5  tty6
<ogra> hmm
<moquist> Yeah, I haven't really tried to grok upstart yet. :p
<ogra> upstart bug probably ....
<moquist> This is an upgrade-from-edgy system.
<ogra> aand you didnt use apt for it i hope
<moquist> ?
<moquist> apt-get update; apt-get upgrade
<moquist> is that bad?
<ogra> yes
* moquist thought he was doing the "good" thing for non-GUI folks
<ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading
<moquist> oy
* moquist goes to read
<moquist> !! OK, so is it acceptible to use the server upgrade even on a desktop system?
<ogra> indeed
<moquist> Heh... I think the double-bang fired up ubotu.
<ogra> and see the very bottom :)
<moquist> ogra: Yeah, I see that.
<moquist> I never was a debian user, but doesn't recommending against apt-get for upgrades kinda...rub debian folks the wrong way?
* moquist thought 'apt-*' were the classic, CLI-happy, good-to-use tools
<moquist> I don't mind doing things the right way, I'm still just getting used to this change in what I thought that was. :)
<ogra> well, there are so many changes apt-cant cover ... like the switch to UUID entries for the whole system instead of /dev/[h,s] dX
<ogra> these are things where files need to get rewritten etc ...
<moquist> ha ha! sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
* moquist nods
<moquist> OK.\
<moquist> I probably did have to re-start apt-get dist-upgrade, and I just don't remember.
<moquist> That's happened to me various times in the past, and things always seemed to come out OK.
<moquist> I also switched from UUIDs back to /dev/[h,s] d[abc]  in some cases, since I was copying OSes from box to box... I suppose that's bad, too. :)
<ogra> that will break
<ogra> just run vol_id for the disks you want to add ;)
<ogra> it tellys you the UUID
<moquist> ok
* moquist was just going to ask that
<erlingre> what is the status of diskless edubuntu/ubuntu?
<ogra> erlingre, status in what way ?
<ogra> its the state of the art ltsp implementation
<pips1> erlingre: by diskless, do you mean thin clients?
<erlingre> ogra: but does ubuntu/edubuntu provide a diskless solution? where the client is a regular pc, running all software, but without any storage and mounting / from a server
<pips1> ah
<ogra> erlingre, not yet out of the box ...
<ogra> you can set it up manually though
<ogra> for an out of the box setup we're missing an out of the box network auth mechanism ... if you have that running, its as easy as:sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<erlingre> I have a mostly working setup where I just installed ubuntu on a pc, rsynced to a Debian server, exports one rootfs for each client and a shared ro. Only one problem. While mounting the shared usr the clients stalls for more than one minute and finally prints a "failed" message even if /usr really is mounted. I have checked everything I can think of several times, but have not yet managed to fix it
<ogra> what do you mean by you rsynced an ubuntu system to a debian server ?
<erlingre> I just used rsync to copy the entire Ubuntu system to a debian fileserver to a directory like /ubuntu_feisty/ and later exported that directory to diskless clients by NFS
<ogra> right, but you will need REW parts in the system
<ogra> *RW
<erlingre> yes
<ogra> thats what the ltsp setup usually cares for
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<erlingre> I create a new rootfs for each diskless client based on the files in /ubuntu_feisty/
<erlingre> Do you think it is a better approach to follow the ltsp tutorials and just use /opt/ltsp/i386?
<ogra> well, ltsp has some easy mechanisms to mount files and dirs into a tmpfs if it needs them RW
<ogra> it also autodetects sound and X setup ...
<erlingre> maybe I try that approach if I give up the manual setup I have now
<erlingre> exept the nfs mounting problems it works okay so far
<ogra> well, its a lot of maintenance work to care for so many chroots
<ogra> with the ltsp setup you can just have one :)
<erlingre> do you have any suggestions for long delays during nfs mounts? I check with rpcifo -p. The client runs portmapper, nlockmgr, and status. The server runs nfs and mountd in addition.
<ogra> how about portmap :)
<ogra> ah, you listed it, sorry i'm blind today
<ogra> err, do you run it on the server as well ?
<erlingre> yes..
<ogra> no weird hosts.allow/.deny entries ?
<erlingre> I have also tried a diskless Debian etch setup from the same server and do not experience such problems so it must be something with the Ubuntu client setup
<ogra> debian etchs ltsp implementation is very old
<ogra> its what we shipped in dapper
<ogra> or somewhere between dapper and edgy
<erlingre> I don't use any ltsp stuff in Debian etch. Just a plain Debian install on a pc and copy that install to the server and export it to clients later
<ogra> ah
<moquist> ogra: I'm pretty sure that back in the day I specified the 'nv' driver manually (this is a customized dual-head setup), so I'll try another driver and see where I get.
<ogra> well
<ogra> you dont have gettys
<ogra> its no X bug
<ogra> its upstart that isnt set up correctly
<ace_suares> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<moquist> ogra: Heh; right. I got distracted for a while and came back to the problem remembering only 75% of our previous conversation.
* moquist looks into the gettys
<moquist> eh, shouldn't I be able to run the getty command in /etc/event.d/tty1 and get a TTY on tty1?
<moquist> It didn't work...
<ogra> heh, did you look inside ?
<ogra> its no script :)
<moquist> hunh? I just executed '/sbin/getty 38400 tty1exec /sbin/getty 38400 tty1' as root, but got no login prompt on TTY1 when I switched.
<moquist> ogra: thx for the upgrading link, BTW. I'm going to send that to several colleagues who probably do apt-get dist-upgrade :)
<ogra> leave that to upstart ;)
<ogra> right
<ogra> nobody should use apt for upgrades since edgy anymore ... we made very prominent announcements about that
* moquist missed the memo
<moquist> ogra: Right, upstart should start getty for me. But given that it isn't, shouldn't root be able to start it?
<moquist> i.e., given that I just ran getty as root, using the command found in /etc/event.d/tty1, and it didn't start a tty, perhaps upstart is doing the right thing but getty isn't.
<highvoltage> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/05/25/1536219
<highvoltage> moquist: did you try pre-seeding with ubiquity? did it work?
<ogra> moquist, very unlikely
<ogra> moquist, dpkg -l upstart ?
<moquist> 0.3.8-1
<moquist> ogra: Hmm. OK.
<ogra> dpkg -l|grep sysv
<moquist> highvoltage: not yet
<ogra> shoudl return: upstart-compat-sysv sysvutils and sysv-rc
<moquist> http://n01se.net/paste/g5?pretty=no
<moquist> ogra: yep
<moquist> highvoltage: I've got to get the server install CD booting properly on the network first and I'll try preseeding there (so I know what I'm doing), and then I'll try it again with ubiquity
<moquist> highvoltage: strangely enough, casper turned out to be the wrong thing to use for the non-Live install CDs ;)
<moquist> i.e., the boot=casper stuff seems not to be working.
<moquist> (for server, alternate, edubuntu-server)
<ogra> how should it ?
<ogra> casper is the liveCD part for initramfs
<highvoltage> moquist: yes, indeed :)
<moquist> ogra: Yeah, that's why I was winking. *Of course* it shouldn't work, but that didn't occur to me until after I tried it.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<moquist> hiya, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey moquist
<base> hello
<pips1> hi
<willvdl> catch y'all later at the meeting
<moquist> anybody know what sets the fs.file-max kernel param? I've just checked several different Ubuntu boxes here and they all have different values, and I didn't set them.
<LaserJock> ogra: what's cjwatson talking about?
<ogra> building the livefs
<ogra> in former releases it wasnt possible for me to build any livefses
<ogra> or for riddell
<ogra> thats a new feature since january
<LaserJock> so now you guys can build the livefs?
<ogra> right
<ogra> which makes everything easier
<ogra> hah, and my virtualbox install succeeded too
<ogra> so the i386 iso seems good to go ...
<ogra> looks pretty good for a first milestone iso
<ogra> LaserJock. did Keybuk talk to you about SoC ?
<LaserJock> ogra: yes
<ogra> good
<LaserJock> so I'm mentoring a grub frontend
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> or rather grub config guid
<LaserJock> *gui
<ogra> i once wrote a very simple one for warty ...
<ogra> actually my first python proggy
<ogra> i won a network monitoring SoC today as well btw :)
<ogra> http://www.grawert.net/software/startup-settings/index.html :)
<LaserJock> ogra: still around?
<LaserJock> well, I guess this might be more for RichEd
<LaserJock> but I just had a conversation with one of the IT heads of my uni
<LaserJock> he's a big fan of Ubuntu
<ogra> nice :)
<LaserJock> I think he might be interested in some "Edubuntu in Universities" type stuff
<LaserJock> he's particularly interested in network auth and AD
<LaserJock> he's got a group of math students that prefer to use Linux
<LaserJock> but he'd like to be able to integrate them better into the uni network
<LaserJock> ogra: is cjwatson going to fix the "Desktop CD doesn't install edu apps" problem or is that something we have to handle? I can't remember what you said last time we talked about it
<ogra> i hav to discuss that with him
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I still haven't been able to track down how the applications.menu and app-install directory get placed on the Add-on CD
<LaserJock> ogra: I talked to mvo and pitti, who else might know? cjwatson?
<ogra> yes
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to be able to get all the installer/disc issues done by tribe 3
<ogra> well, i'm not even sue we'll have a tribe1
<ogra> *sure
<ogra> i'm heavily fighting here
<ogra> ******* Reminder Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 6 min ********
<ogra> ******* Reminder Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 3 min ********
<willvdl> howdi
<ogra> hey hey
<willvdl> I take it Rich is down with the flu
<ogra> willvdl. i wll try to keep my part as short as possible today, i'm still not done with building the liveCD and have a nightshift ahead
<willvdl> same here
<willvdl> nightshift?
<ogra> seems there was an issue with the buildds that made the livefs builder not pick up my changes, so we still have oversized untested isos for tomorrows milestone release
<ogra> i'm tryig to get that fixed tonight
<willvdl> eek
<ogra> ******* Edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting starting now ********
<willvdl> don't worry, I just want to talk website :)
<LaserJock> ogra: is  20070606.1 right for the server cds?
<ogra> yes
<LaserJock> alright, I really need to get some real work done
<LaserJock> see you all later
<ogra> bye bye
<willvdl> nixternal still here?
<cliebow>   #ubuntu-meetiing
<willvdl> meeting is over :)
<cliebow> yeaha..i got busy..then got home and saw the msg
#edubuntu 2007-06-07
<nixternal> I am here now, just a tad bit late though :)
<GreySim> Does anyone here know how to set up Edubuntu's automatic swap server under normal Ubuntu Feisty?
<GreySim> Anyone know how to get nbdswapd without actually installing ltsp-server? I'm actually using Ubuntu Feisty, but figured the people in here would be more intimately familiar with LTSP and probably nbdswapd.
<Burgundavia> I have no idea
<ace_suares> GreySim: maybe #ltsp
<Armagon> Greetings.
<Armagon> I'm trying to get an edubuntu server/client setup working, and am having problems.
<Armagon> I finally got the DHCP server working tonight.
<Armagon> Having done that, I tried doing a Network boot with two separate computers, but it hasn't worked.
<Armagon> Tailing /var/log/syslog, I see that the ethernet link goes up and down (I'm using a direct link between two computers -- the cable goes right between them, and, as the server (a MacBook) automatically detects how the signal works, I don't need a crossover cable (which I don't have)).  The link goes up and down, but no DHCP request is issued during the time that the other PC tried to boot over the network.
<Armagon> Wait.  Aha.  Network boot was disabled in the BIOS on the second computer I'm trying this with ...
<Armagon> Hmm...  It did a DHCP request, and got an address, but ended up with "PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout."
<moquist> Burgundavia: It's working out to get whiprush to present. Thanks a million for prompting me to contact him.
<Burgundavia> no worries
<jsgotangco> whiprush coming back? cool
<moquist> highvoltage: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LocalNet
<bibstha> hi everybody
<LaserJock> hi bibstha
<bibstha> LaserJock: Any idea how to install edubuntu on top of ubuntu??
<LaserJock> sure
<bibstha> LaserJock: through CD??
<LaserJock> you can install edubuntu-desktop
<bibstha> LaserJock: coz no high speed net here
<LaserJock> and then if you grab the Edubuntu Classroom Server Addon CD you can install the educational apps from CD
<RichEd> hi willvdl & LaserJock ... sorry I missed the meeting last night ... was ill in bed with some sort of flu and gastric ...
<bibstha> LaserJock: oh, that means, now that i have ubuntu installed, just the server addon cd will be enough? apt-cdrom add??
<RichEd> was not a happy chappie ... but sort of better today
<LaserJock> RichEd: hi, working on a email for you now
<RichEd> LaserJock: thanks ...
<LaserJock> bibstha: that will have the educational software, you should just pop it in
<bibstha> LaserJock: thanks i should download that then
<LaserJock> bibstha: for installing edubuntu-desktop I'm not sure if those packages are on the Ubuntu CD
<LaserJock> I'm guessing not
<LaserJock> but I don't think it should a big download
<bibstha> LaserJock: hey man thanks
<bibstha> LaserJock: the desktop cd is for live booting, the server cd is for installing, whats the actual difference with regard to the programs inside?
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well right now for Feisty the Desktop CD is good for demos
<LaserJock> and have a look around
<LaserJock> but if you want to install and LTSP server
<LaserJock> or do a regular install (we call it workstation)
<LaserJock> the Server CD is the way to go
<LaserJock> it's basically got Ubuntu plus some additional stuff
<LaserJock> and then the Server Addon CD has a lot more educational apps and a few misc. programs
<bibstha> LaserJock: ohh, so to just install gcompris and other games then server addon,
<bibstha> LaserJock: thanks again
<LaserJock> bibstha: gcompris, KDE Edu, and others are on the Server Addon
<Tom47> would edubuntu be a good choice as the basis for a small business ltsp or are there better choices to be considered
<LaserJock> I personally think it's a good choice
<LaserJock> Edubuntu's LTSP implementation is pretty solid
<Tom47> i was thinking that
<RichEd> Tom47: you can also install ubuntu server, and then LTSP package, and then the ubuntu-desktop package
<LaserJock> and with Feisty it's much less "kiddy" oriented if you install from the Classroom Server CD
<LaserJock> I personally would go with Edubuntu Classroom Server install then install ubuntu-artwork
<LaserJock> then you get the automated LTSP setup from Edubuntu
<Tom47> RichEd: that would put a lot of function on the client or not?
<LaserJock> and an artwork tweak from Ubuntu
<Tom47> LaserJock: yes sounds along the lines we were thinking
<LaserJock> either way is going to be fairly easy
<Tom47> RichEd: what factors would sway things in yr suggestion?
<RichEd> Tom47: not sure exactly what your comment asks ... but the server is the base, the LTSP is the thin client "support" and then the desktop is needed on the server to give the thin clients a desktop ... with all of the standard ubuntu desktop applications
<RichEd> Tom47: check out this link as well http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=161
<RichEd> <quote>
<RichEd>  	Catalog of Free and Open Source Software for Small-Medium Enterprises  	
<RichEd> 	Open Source Victoria has prepared this catalog of open source software for small-medium enterprises. Within it, we have researched and provided a synopsis on a range of software which we believe will be beneficial to many businesses and small public-sector organisations.
<Tom47> RichEd: prob reflects my ignoranace on just exactly what the desktop is
<RichEd> </quote>
<jsgotangco> nice link!
<RichEd> Tom47: the server install would just give the "network resource engine" ... the desktop I refer to is the GUI and user applications
<Tom47> ok
<RichEd> jsgotangco: and this one http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155
<RichEd> jsgotangco: same for education ... nice doc ... lots of apps tested & reviewed
<LaserJock> RichEd: on the other hand, Edubuntu LTSP server install is all of that, automated
<LaserJock> it just needs a artwork tweak to make it more business looking
<RichEd> LaserJock: is the artwork tweak documented ?
<LaserJock> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> ^^ documented ;-)
<RichEd> there is a push for a small business server strategy and support ... so this sort of question will come up more frequently
<LaserJock> actually, you really only need:
<jsgotangco> RichEd: too bad its not my field anymore
<RichEd> and thanks for the answer :)
<LaserJock> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-artwork
<RichEd> jsgotangco: so noted ... just getting the info up in the conversation for completion ... this is the edu channel no ? ;)
<Tom47> it just seemed to us that starting off with ltsp and building would be reinventing many wheels
<jsgotangco> RichEd: :P
<RichEd> Tom47: LaserJock suggests the easier route ... Edubuntu off CD and then artwork change
<Tom47> RichEd: ok ty ....
<RichEd> we also recommend for a LTSP newbie to install (the easier) edubuntu LTSP to get a grip, and then to try the ubuntu route if they need to or want to
<LaserJock> gimme a sec and I'll tell you what you'll get
* RichEd puts on the infomercial music
<RichEd> * not only will you get a leading LTSP environment but also, if you install now, you'll get:
<RichEd> (take it away LaserJock :)
* LaserJock kicks vmware server
<LaserJock> hurry up
<Tom47> i am about to hit the dinner gong here
<jsgotangco> well you can just remove up all the edu stuff anyways
<Tom47> thanks for info
<jsgotangco> its only one system you are pretty much fixing
<LaserJock> ok, installing ubuntu-desktop
<Tom47> i will leave this running
<LaserJock> gives you some mono libs
<LaserJock> and artwork
<Tom47> and back in half an hour
<jsgotangco> yeah tomboy is in default
<LaserJock> I've gotta run to bed
<LaserJock> cya all
<Tom47> LaserJock: thanks for advice
<jsgotangco> great twitter is out again *sigh*
<schizmatik> hello
<ludoRA> Bonjour
<ludoRA> Hello
<RichEd> hi ludoRA
<aze> hi all
<aze> any french edubuntu users here ? :p
<aze> salutr ludoRA
<aze> ludoRA: tu s francophone ?
<ludoRA> oui oui
<ludoRA> bonjour aze
<aze> tu utilises edubuntu pour tes enfants ou pour des ecoles ?
<aze> ludoRA: je l'ai installe dans une ecole
<aze> ludoRA: un journal voudrait faire un article sur cette initiative
<ludoRA> j'ai utilis edubuntu pour permettre  des parents de laisser des enfants devant leur pc sans risque pour leurs donnes ni pour le contenu de ce qu'ils manipulent
<ludoRA> je connais mal edubuntu en ralit
<ludoRA> mais trs bien ubuntu
<ludoRA> (sorry for this french dialog)
<ludoRA> ;-)
<aze> ludoRA: je cherche en fait deux ou trois themes pour l'article
<aze> ludoRA: +1 :p
<aze> il y a tellement de chose a mettre en avant sur ubuntu et edubuntu que je ne voudrais pas passer a cote de quelque chose
<aze> ludoRA: a propos d'ubuntu tu l'utilises dans ton travail ?
* RichEd collection -> 30 mins
<Stream_Space> hello
<willvdl> I've cleaned up the wiki a bit
<willvdl> we now have spaces for website devel, doc devel and wiki devel
<willvdl> want to drop the refence to "Devel" in wiki since the wiki is all about development
<LaserJock> morning Edu Land
<LaserJock> ogra: so did Tribe 1 work out?
<Luke802>  Hello I am trying to install edubuntu 6.06 but after it gets to the part of the installation "Building LTSP Chroot" it hangs at 50% complete for a while then goes to black screen with 2 small white rectangles and just fails...
<Luke802>  has anyone else had this problem?
<Luke802>  Hello I am having a problem with Edubuntu 6 install
<Luke802>  IT just seems to hang after 50% of "building LTSP chroot"
<Luke802>  anyone have had this problem?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I haven't
<LaserJock> but that seems vaguely familiar
<Luke802>  hrmmm
<Luke802>  Anyone have a good md5SUm checker for windows?
<Luke802>  i'll try and check the iso i downloaded
<stgraber> Luke802: md5sum exists for Windows
<stgraber> it works the same way as on Linux (you have to call it from cmd.exe)
<bluekuja> ogra: you there?
* Luke802 shakes ogra's hand
<energymedia> Hi All :o)
<energymedia> Does anyone have experience using Edubuntu server (ltsp)?  Im struggling to get thin client desktop units connecting to the server, are there any obvious things I should check.  I have checked and rechecked everything - the only thing I have noticed is that the step by step guide on the web did not match with what I was doing, have there been any changes to the software that are not shown on...
<energymedia> ...the website?
<LaserJock> ogra: cjwatson showed me where the app-install stuff comes from
<ogra> LaserJock, ah, cool
<LaserJock> energymedia: what Edubuntu release are you using, and where on the website are you looking?
<energymedia> laserjock - we just downloaded 7.04
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm not exactly sure how to plug in our changes to it
<LaserJock> ogra: but for the applications.menu it does a simple cp
<energymedia> laserjock - I followed the steps at http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<ogra> LaserJock, lets look at that tomoroow, i'm on mz waz to the bathtub :)
<ogra> gah
<LaserJock> ogra: heh, no problem
<ogra> s/z/y
<LaserJock> energymedia: you might try looking at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<energymedia> LaserJock - I went in their too but directly in at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/server.html
<energymedia> the part that I *think* is an issue is that I need to check and verify that the correct services are active
<energymedia> the other part is... Can I use "Remote desktop protocol (RDP)" or do I need to use X windows?
<LaserJock> I'm not great with LTSP setups
<LaserJock> but for your last question, using them for what?
<energymedia> What I want to do is have one server - 10 thin clients (neoware c50's).
<LaserJock> ok
<energymedia> Im determined NOT to have to use any MS Windows boxes to get my solution working! :o)
<LaserJock> heh
<energymedia> We took the big jump one week and everyone that was just using a desktop pc with office, ie and outlook ended up coming in on the following monday to find Ubuntu 7.04 with Firefox, thunderbird, and Ooo
<energymedia> they all accepted it and it was the best thing we could have done.  Now we are bring all the 'various' systems inline to Ub.
<LaserJock> cool
<energymedia> its just we want to centralize everything and use thin clients as I have seen how good they can work
#edubuntu 2007-06-08
<lynn> I'm trying to boot a ltsp client and getting an error:  "nfsmount:  need a path"
<lynn> I have many other clients working, and this one worked a few minutes ago
<lynn> any one have any clue as to what would cause this type of error?
<lynn> from what I found on google, my server settings are fine, so I think there may be some problem with the client
<cliebow> lynn: option root-path says?
<lynn> it says "option root-path '/opt/ltsp/i386';"
<lynn> and i'm only using PCs now
<cliebow> seems fine
<cliebow> might have to run wireshark and lok the packets over
<cliebow> ltsp5?
<lynn> yeah, all the other clients work fine
<cliebow> any other msgs...like does it drop you to the initramfs?
<lynn> yeah, it just did that like 30 sec ago
<cliebow> i wonder if it isbalking at the network card in that box..like not getting second nfs
<lynn> isbalking?
<cliebow> is balking
<lynn> o ok
<cliebow> wireshark would tell you if it aactually asks for a  root-path
<cliebow> what nic in the client?
<lynn> a 3com 3c905b
<cliebow> heck that should be fine
<cliebow> might drop by #ltsp..that card should be ducky
<lynn> i'll try a different card and see what i get
<cliebow> cool!
<lynn> it works! must have been a bogus card.  strange that it worked once
<lynn> thanks for your help!
<energymedia> Hi all, I have lost the top part of the conversation about LTSP - Im having issues I need some pointers on - Cliebow are you free for a few mins?
<racter> i'm having trouble logging users out (on thin clients) - when they choose 'System->Quit' nothing appears to happen (but they are no longer able to start up new programs)
<mariocesar_bo> Hi all, does anyone knows hot to do a Addon Cd like Edubuntu Server Addons
<mariocesar_bo> Sorry my englis :-)=> Hi all, does anyone knows *how* to do a Addon CD like Edubuntu Server Addons
<RichEd> mariocesar_bo: you download the .iso and burn the CD ... then pop it in ...
<mariocesar_bo> RichEd: yea i know, what i wan't is do a similar cd with other apps
<RichEd> it will also give you more applications for the (workstation) desktop
<mariocesar_bo> like octave, axiom, openoffice-es, and others
<RichEd> oh ... you mean build one yourself ?
<mariocesar_bo> yea
<RichEd> then you'll need to chat to ogra ... he put it together
<mariocesar_bo> i like the Edubuntu Server Addons, it's so simple
<RichEd> mariocesar_bo: that was the general idea :)
<mariocesar_bo> so, what do i have to learn to do a similar cd with extra apps?
<RichEd> chat to ogra when he is around in an hour or two ...
<RichEd> when you build yours let us know what apps you put on, and maybe even let us have a copy ... it would be useful for us to look at.
<mariocesar_bo> Great ^_^
<mariocesar_bo> yea, ogra made the cd?
<RichEd> indeed he did
<mariocesar_bo> :O yea, so i would wait
<mariocesar_bo> it's 3am on Bolivia but i will wait :D
<RichEd> mariocesar_bo: did you get my /msg ? I gave you oliver's email
<mariocesar_bo> yes
<mariocesar_bo> thanks
<ogra> well
<mariocesar_bo> o men !
<mariocesar_bo> hi ogra
<RichEd> ahh ... mr grawert ... morning
<ogra> i didnt 'make' the CD .... i only maintain it ...
<ogra> our cd buildsystem on launchpad builds it ...
<mariocesar_bo> :-) well, but dou you know how to do it?
<ogra> but thats very specific and not how you would do it at home
<mariocesar_bo> ok, i would check it
<mariocesar_bo> thanks
<mariocesar_bo> mmmm
<mariocesar_bo> so, where i can find info about this?
<ogra> http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net/ i guess thats something rather for home use :)
<mariocesar_bo> yea i use it
<mariocesar_bo> but i just love the Edubuntu Server Addon, it's extremely simple
<mariocesar_bo> and more intuitive that aptoncd
<mariocesar_bo> this is the site project of Edubuntu addons, no ? => https://launchpad.net/edubuntu-addon-cd/
<ogra> well, roughly what you need to do is build an archive structure (which there are tools for (i.e. apt-ftparchive)) and the app-install-data dir with the right .desktop files and icons ... put that in a directory tree and run mkisofs on it
<ogra> but as i said i have not much to do with the backend in launchpad so i might miss pieces
<mariocesar_bo> ok, i just want to get sure,  when i put the cd, it would launch the gnome-app-install?
<ogra> it checks for some metadata if its a valid CD or not, just copy that from the edubuntu CD ;)
<ogra> look for hidden dirs
<mariocesar_bo> ok :D
<mariocesar_bo> i would study this
<maarten_> goodmorning
<maarten_> CET at least.
<maarten_> i have a question i could not find in the edubuntu web: is it possible to have edubuntu and normal ubuntu coexist? if i install edubuntu-desktop on top of my normal installation, it changes too many things for all users... i'd like to have the edubuntu look just for a specific user.
<RichEd> maarten_: that is possible (to switch) let me find a help link for you
<RichEd> here is one "help" link: http://tuxicity.wordpress.com/2007/01/30/howto-switch-from-ubuntu-to-kubuntu-or-xubuntu-or-edubuntu-or-vice-versa-610-edgy/
<maarten_> RichEd: that does not really do what i want; here they really revert the installation
<RichEd> i'm trying to find a link for "more dynamic switching" for you
<maarten_> i think the main problem is that the edubuntu packages are not quite as modular as they could be...
<maarten_> i mean, it's either all or nothing
<RichEd> maarten_: perhaps you can mail the edubuntu-users and/or edubuntu-devel list
<RichEd> i know jonathan carter (highvoltage) knows the best way to satisfy what you need
<maarten_> RichEd: thanks, I will
<sbalneav> Morning all
<aze> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello aze
<RichEd> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> He RichEd
<sbalneav> s/He/Hey/
<RichEd> Me RichEd He sbalneav
<aze> eheh
<sbalneav> There's a "Tarzan and Jane" joke in here somewhere.
<RichEd> sbalneav: Richard & Jane ... or Dick & Jane
<RichEd> :)
<aze> eheh
<RichEd> Like the old school books, before they realised it may not be such a good nickname.
<Sulamita> RichEd: hello
<RichEd> hi Sulamita
<Sulamita> RichEd: did you get my mail?
<RichEd> Sulamita: let me check ... when did you send it ?
<RichEd> Okay got it ... will look at it now ...
<Sulamita> ok
<sbalneav> Sulamita: Are you the Sulamita from Brazil?
<RichEd> sbalneav: indeed she is ... ms intel LAMs ... the very same from sevilla
<sbalneav> Ah, cool.
<RichEd> Sulamita: I'll check out the confernce and give it some thought ... I however do not make the financial decisions, but I'll get back to you with comments.
<sbalneav> Welcome to #edubuntu.
<Sulamita> sbalneav: thanks :)
<Sulamita> RichEd: I thought so, just want to assure that the financial would be just for your travel
<RichEd> Sulamita: okay thanks :)
<sbalneav> I think some people in this channel have really let me down.
<sbalneav> I mean, really, how come no one's ever told me about lifrea before?!?!
<sbalneav> It's awesome!
<moquist> can *any* preseed value be placed on the kernel command line (within the 255 char limit)?
<moquist> For example, I have preseed/locale=en_US kbd-chooser/method=us but it's still asking about keyboard config.
<Yagisan> C'day cbx33
<cbx33> hey Yagisan
* Yagisan finished this semesters uni exams today
<cbx33> awesome
<Yagisan> cbx33, can you see this www site -> http://eyagi.bpa.nu:8010/
* Yagisan is beating a buildbot system together
<Yagisan> but I'm not sure if dns is working, or if my config is borked
<cbx33> yup i can see that
<Yagisan> yes
<Yagisan> technically the i386 box there is edubuntu ... but still
<cbx33> coooool
<Yagisan> cbx33, I think it is rather cool. Now I get automated "you broke my code" messages
* Yagisan races his two buildsystems against each other
<cbx33> hehehe
* Yagisan goes to try and convince qemu to run the powerpc and sparc versions of ubuntu
<yuriy> heya cbx33
<cbx33> hey yuriy
<yuriy> cbx33: did you get my last emails?
<yuriy> i'll be gone over the weekend but i hope to get some stuff done next week
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> i don't rememder seeing one~
<cbx33> I'll check later
<LaserJock> hmm, no where did Oli run off to?
<LaserJock> *now
<LaserJock> ogra!
<LaserJock> moquist: you around?
<Sulamita> ogra_e2300: hei!
<ogra_e2300> Sulamita, !!!!!
* ogra_e2300 *hugs*
<LaserJock> ogra_e2300: I think I've figured out how to get our menu modifications for the add-on CD
<Burgundavia> hey ogra
<ogra_e2300> LaserJock, you rock
<ogra_e2300> i figured out how to boot thin clients twice as fast with a union/sqhashfs/mbd combo ;)
<ogra_e2300> *err nbd
<LaserJock> ogra_e2300: I don't suppose you have a bzr branch of debian-cd do you?
<ogra_e2300> nope
<ogra_e2300> i think the only valid branch is colins
<LaserJock> well, in the gutsy tools there is a script called app-install.sh
<LaserJock> I think you can imagine what that does ;-)
<LaserJock> it's got a simple line:
<LaserJock> cp -a "$TMP/usr/share/app-install/desktop/applications.menu" \
<LaserJock>     "$DIR/app-install/desktop/" || true
<LaserJock> we just need to change that to copy from "our" source
<ogra_e2300> heh, trivial
<LaserJock> there is already a data/gutsy/ dir in debian-cd
<LaserJock> that has the *buntu boot splashes, etc.
<LaserJock> I was thinking we could just create an edubuntu-addon dir in there
<ogra_e2300> sounds ok
<LaserJock> and I can put the .menu and .directory files I need to create in there
<LaserJock> ogra: did you leave?
* LaserJock never knows what machine Oli's on and where he is :-)
<ogra> both
<ogra> :)
<ogra> i'm sitting in the middle
<LaserJock> my only concern was that simply changing the cp line makes app-install.sh edubuntu specific
<LaserJock> do you think that is an issue?
<LaserJock> right now the Makefile only uses app-install.sh for the Edubuntu Add-on CD
<LaserJock> in any case, I think this weekend I'll make the modifications, put in an initial applications.menu with .directory files, and put that up on launchpad for Colin to have a look at
<ogra> i guess we'll need icons fr the meta .desktop files
* ogra has to go now ... (late in germany) ... ciao ...
<moquist> LaserJock: am now
<LaserJock> ogra: cya
<moquist> ogra: buh-bye
<LaserJock> moquist: I happened, through a roundabout way, to end up on the FOSSED website
<LaserJock> I was reading the fedora education list, and there was an email that somebody is updating the Open Source Victoria Fee Software for Schools book
<moquist> LaserJock: ah! Welcome.
<moquist> LaserJock: Yep, Bryant Patten.
<LaserJock> yeah
<moquist> Interested in coming? :)
<LaserJock> well, I'd love to
<LaserJock> but I don't think I can get the time off of work
* moquist nods
<LaserJock> but I ran through the list of topics
<LaserJock> moquist: was a little disturbed by "We will explore easy ways to add these to your Linux desktop using Synaptice Manager and Automatix." thought ;-)
<LaserJock> *though
<moquist> heh - which session is that?
* moquist didn't write that...
<LaserJock> http://fossed.net/course/view.php?id=14
* moquist *wouldn't* write that...
<LaserJock> heh, I had to chuckle
<moquist> I think that's from last year.
<LaserJock> is any of this geared towards community colleges or universities?
<moquist> That presenter won't be there this year (too busy). She's great, full of energy and in love with Open Source. But she's a teacher-turned-tech-director, so definitely on the non-technical end of the scale.
<moquist> Nope, though we aren't intentionally excluding anyone.
<moquist> The core audience is solidly k-12.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> we should do EduCons
<LaserJock> I'd like to see some West Coast action
<moquist> Gallaudet will be interesting, though, because I don't think we're connecting with that same community there. We're not really sure yet *who* will come to that one. (It's new this year.)
<moquist> sure
<moquist> WC is good.
<LaserJock> maybe Google would lend us some facilities ;-)
<racter> do we need a soundcard on the server in order to have sound on the clients?
<moose303> you should not need a sound card on the server.
<racter> moose303 - that's what i thought.  i guess i don't know how to start working this out (it's not autodetected on any of the clients)
<moose303> make sure you have sound=true in your lts.conf.  I have always had mixed success with different sound cards also.
<moose303> has anyone tried authentication to a novell edirectory network?
#edubuntu 2007-06-09
<racter> hey i'm trying to get my server to provide internet access to normal clients in addition to the thin clients; how can i do that?
<cliebow> racter: do you need the 2 nic setup?
<racter> cliebow - that's just how the instructions i found were formatted; i'm not attached to it
<cliebow> i just use a single nic setup providing dhcp to te entire network..in my case on alternte port since the boss is still adhered to windows dhcp on port 67
<cliebow> pxe clients?
<racter> they're etherboot
<cliebow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT?action=show&redirect=ThinkClientHowtoNAT
<cliebow> should help
<racter> great thx
<Kenrhads> alguien habla espaol
<jester626> anyone awake?
<borg7_> I have a Fiesty Fawn LTSP Setup with an XP machine connected to the LTSP side switch.  I can't ping outside of the network (google.com)
<borg7_> I have a mix of thin clients and XP boxes that are getting DHCP from the LTSP server... is it possible for the XP machines to get to the internet?
<borg7_> I have a LTSP setup w/ 2 NIC's but I want an XP machine to get DHCP from the LTSP server... how can I make the XP machine connect to the internet?
<edistar> hey, does anyone know any good benchmarks to test the ltsp server?
<edistar> because I will need to test a server today and say whether it is good enough from the hardware point of view
<edistar> nobody?
<edistar> would you recommend a 64-bit or a 32-bit environment for a XEON server machine? The clients are very old though, some still 386..
<borg7_> I have a LTSP setup w/ 2 NIC's but I want an XP machine to get DHCP from the LTSP server... how can I make the XP machine connect to the internet?
<stgraber> borg7_: you'll need to set up your edubuntu server as router
<stgraber> borg7_: check on google how to enable the NAT and the FORWARDING with iptables, there are plenty of good docs about that
<Wolfman2000> Afternoon: clarification is needed.  Should the Desktop CD be used for installing Edubuntu permamently, or the Classroom server CD?  I'm unsure what the big difference is.
<Mirrakor> Anyone has the time/lust to give me a short intro in edubuntu(what is it and what is it mentioned for )
<Mirrakor> is it more for students or for teacher?
<Mirrakor> (afais for students, but I'm not sure :D )
<t94xr> Edubuntu is designed for education in a general sense
<t94xr> Students & Teachers
<t94xr> Server and Thin client use or as a seperate OS all togehter
<Mirrakor> t94xr: if I got it right it's a "normal" ubuntu with additional packages, is that right?
<t94xr> just extra games, a different artwork set and a name
<t94xr> yep
<Mirrakor> okay, I'm going to use it only on my laptop, neither someone else nor my school is going to use it, so I actually do not really need the whole client/server thing, what would you recommend? use a normal ubuntu and add the needed packages or download edubuntu?
<t94xr> edubuntu is client
<t94xr> you need download the server component
<t94xr> to make a server
<t94xr> but then the edubuntu install without server is null
<t94xr> cuz server provides the clients thru a thin client process where the operating system is sent by the server to the computers
<Mirrakor> hm.. okay, so if I see it right, a normal ubuntu would be the better way for me?
<t94xr> it really doesnt matter
<t94xr> its like picking a red car cuz its red, even though it just has a differnet paint work of the blue car
#edubuntu 2007-06-10
<t94xr> their pretty much completely identical
<t94xr> the only way edubuntu is different, its just friendlied up for kids
<Mirrakor> t94xr: yeah, I got that, but you told me something about client/server deployment in edubuntu, I guess I won't need the most server apps - right?
<t94xr> the client server app can be applied to ubuntu aswell, it needs to be downloaded and installed
<t94xr> i recommend you install teh shit, you asking a million questions isnt gonna help you much. You learn 10x more by doing something than asking questions...
<cliebow>     Mirrakor you can start with a standard install..that will give you a deskstop..when you find you need sometthing..like an nfs server...ldap..moodle..whatever..it is sfairly triviasl to add it
<Mirrakor> cliebow: with standart install you mean normal ubuntu or edubuntu? (I sure won't need one of the things you listed)
<cliebow> either...start with ubuntu if you like..when you are ready to try a new desktop..sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop...or xubuntu-desktop..or icewm..you can then choose any of above
<cliebow> at login..it Rocks
<cliebow> or start with edubuntu..no one really cares..cause you can try em all.
<cliebow> But..with edubuntu tyou DO et the collective wisdom of this list..thoae who actually put it together..
<Mirrakor> what rocks at login?
<cliebow> Mirrakor, the bility to switvh desktops at will...
<Mirrakor> ah, that's what I know as session type I guess :D
<Mirrakor> So I can select if I either want to start a Xfce4 session or a gnome one etc.?
<cliebow> sure..or icewm..
<Mirrakor> yup or kde etc. :D
<Mirrakor> fwvm2 :D
<cliebow> kubuntu
<aze> hi
<edistar> hey, the install hangs at the information report (77%), can someone help us?
<edistar> noone here? please help..
<moquist> ogra: ping?
<Mirrakor> Is there a list of (educational) apps used in Edubuntu?
<moquist> Mirrakor: Yes, but I'm not sure where. I would search the Edubuntu wiki.
<Mirrakor> I did, but didn't found something usefull :/
<moquist> Hmm. Not sure then; sorry!
<Mirrakor> np :)
<Mirrakor> The KDE Education suit is one package, right? (kdeedu)
<cliebow> Mirrakor:use apt-cache search     \0_
<Mirrakor> are there "introductions" for apps like KVocTrainer?
<cliebow> not thaat I know of..
#edubuntu 2008-06-02
<hobo666> first timer
<hobo666> created a nick yesterday, wanted to verify (got the auto email) and it said to login
<hobo666> not sure how to login
<hobo666> is it just slash login?
<Ashfire908> What do I install to get LTSP clients to have a GUI?
<Ashfire908> Do I just install the GUI I want?
<dan63043> do you have clients booting into a terminal session?
<Ashfire908> They boot to ldm but logons result in an error saying it can't start the X session.
<Ashfire908> It says it can't find any .xsession file, a window manager, session manager, or a terminal emulator.
<dan63043> did you google on any of the messages?
<Ashfire908> This isn't actually going to be a real edubuntu install, but I assume this is the best place to ask about LTSP.
<dan63043> a .xsession file is usually in a user's home directory
<Ashfire908> dan63043: Well, I know what the errors are...
<dan63043> there's a chroot command that occurs as ltsp starts up
<dan63043> you might not have anything setup
<dan63043> do you have directory named /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 ?
<Ashfire908> Yes, but I have no actual GUI.
<Ashfire908> So i'm asking what do I do to install one.
<Ashfire908> Do I just install the normal package for the GUI?
<Ashfire908> Or do I do something special?
<dan63043> ahh, i've read something just lately (i'm pretty new at this too)
<dan63043> to get the same packages on your clients, I think I have a link you can read
<Ashfire908> Ok.
<dan63043> Updating your LTSP chroot
<dan63043> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-updates.html
<dan63043> I know that this is specifically for updates, but I think you need to do something similar to add packages for the clients
<dan63043> but remember that i'm a noob (to ltsp)
<Ashfire908> I bet there is a better way...
<Ashfire908> Acutally, nvm.
<enigmaentity> hello all
<enigmaentity> \join #ubuntu-meeting
<enigmaentity> oops
<enigmaentity> So are most of you devs or users?
<juliux> hey ogra
<ogra> hey
<juliux> where have you been saturday?
<juliux> we missed you at linuxtag
<ogra> yeah, stuck in kassel
<ogra> no trains
<juliux> tsts
<juliux> i talked with hans-peter merkel at linuxtag, liunux4afrika will switch to x2go
<juliux> and they are not sure if they will use ubuntu longer
<highvoltage> juli	what is linux4africa?
<ogra> juliux, why is that ?
<ogra> stgraber, hmm, did x11vnc change ? italc seems to break on it
 * ogra just got a bunch of FTBFS mails
<stgraber> ogra: oh ?
<stgraber> ogra: I don't think it synced the x11vnc code ... can you forward the ftbfs mail ?
<ogra> are you not getting the edubuntu-italc-team mails ?
<ogra> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14902204/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.italc_1%3A1.0.8-0ubuntu1%7Eppa5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<juliux> ogra: he doesn't like ltps any more an no ubuntu because he needs ldap support
<juliux> ogra: but i only get this via a very short notice at the last day, so let's see what realy happen
<juliux> ogra: and i think they are a little bit frustrated that they didn't get any support from canonical
<ogra> did they ask ?
<stgraber> ogra: I'm giving 1.0.9 a try in a pbuilder
<stgraber> ogra: 1.0.9 fails too, so it's something in Intrepid that goes wrong ... /me wonders what
<ogra> vnc being out of sync with X ? do we use any extrenal vnc builddep ?
<stgraber> nope
<stgraber> x11vnc is entirely integrated in iTalc's code (slightly modified IIRC)
<ogra> hmm
<stgraber> ogra: do you know if x11vnc built fine ?
<ogra> no idea
<stgraber> according to Tobias it should show the exact same problem
<stgraber> I'm trying a rebuild of x11vnc here, if it fails it's either a bug we introduced in some build deps or an upstream bug (new gcc ?)
<stgraber> ogra: x11vnc 0.9.3 built fine but iTalc's based on 0.9.4 so the bug might have been introduced in 0.9.4 beta
<ogra> ah
<stgraber> it's now building a 0.9.4 package of x11vnc (I just took the beta from upstream, no packaging changes were needed)
<stgraber> if it fails it'll likely be an upstream bug
<ogra> yeah
<cwaters> Good morning.
<cwaters> If I have an Ubuntu install already, to get edubuntu, is it just a matter of selecting the edubuntu-desktop packages?
<cwaters> I have an old laptop that would be great for my son to use but there is no optical drive so I have to pxe boot etc....to do an install so I am hoping for a shortcut.
<johnny> yes..
<cwaters> Excellent.
<johnny> it's just an addon cd in hardy
<cwaters> That's what I thought but I just wanted to be sure before I started.
<cwaters> #ubuntu
<cwaters> whoops sorry
<juliux> ogra: they mailed more then onetime somebody from canonical
<juliux> ogra: for example jono about the linuxtag but there was no response
#edubuntu 2008-06-03
<RichEd_> moquist: hello ?
<RichEd_> ogra:
<RichEd_> ping
<RichEd> moquist: ping
<RichEd> moquist: ping
<highvoltage> ogra: hey there
<ogra> hey
<highvoltage> ogra: have you perhaps had a chance to reply to Joh Scofields' e-mail? I don't really know of people who can help him in the US.
<ogra> hmm, me neither, at least in the south
<daskreech> Hello
<daskreech> was anyone interviewed at UDS?
<daskreech> I was looking through the videos on YouTube
<daskreech> hi gnomefre1k
<gnomefreak> hi daskreech
<daskreech> how are you?
<stgraber> ogra: we found and fixed the issue with italc and intrepid (ftbfs), it'll be included in -rc3
<stgraber> h_addr is deprecated and must be replaced by h_addr_list[0]
<stgraber> x11vnc upstream is forcing the use of the compatibility functions, italc will just use the new one
<stgraber> (so the problem was actually introduced by the libc6)
#edubuntu 2008-06-04
<stgraber> ogra, RichEd: early or late meeting ?
<RichEd> ogra ?
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> what did we have last time ?
<stgraber> we didn't have one IIRC :)
<stgraber> you had the ubuflu or something and RichEd was in a meeting (IIRC)
<RichEd> ( I'm flat out busy with planning the Brussels trip ... leave home on Saturday morning to get back late on Tuesday ... for a 2 hour meeting )
<stgraber> ogra: I don't know if you saw it in your backlog but I found the problem with iTalc and Intrepid
<ogra> yeah, saw that, great "
<ogra> !
<stgraber> I'm currently building a new iTalc that will allow you to have ica (isd and ivs services) running on the thin client and italc running on the terminal server
<stgraber> currently you can't as the italc<=>isd service is done using localhost
<ogra> doesnt that raise the network load immensely ?
<ogra> haing your vnc going back and forth through the net
<ogra> *having
<stgraber> I'm not 100% sure how italc works on that point, I'll need to do some wiresharking on the network to be sure :)
<nathan406> Hello!
<nathan406> I need help installing my wireless card
<nathan406> on my laptop that is!
<nathan406> Cardbus
<src2206> Hello everybody
<src2206> I need a little help and guidance on upgrading my present Edubuntu 7.10 installation. Could someone please help me out?
<src2206> Hello anyone...any help? Please....
<llamuh> anyone here?
<Junk430> hi guys
<Junk430> would it be easy to get a server set up to auto log in clients on powerup and secure the desktop so no changes can be made
<TheBartman> did my last post go through about the auto log in
<TheBartman> I'm using my blackberry for the first time on irc...
<TheBartman> keeps kicking me out.. Anyone active?
<bimberi> TheBartman: Yes, and your post got through.  Sorry I don't know the answer though.  #ltsp might be a good place to ask too.
<bimberi> TheBartman: And you've convinced me not to use a blackberry for IRC ;P
<TheBartman> thanks, how do you run your setup? I may be doing some volinter wok for a troubled youth club and have always wanted to deploy ltsp/edubuntu
<bimberi> TheBartman: Personally, no LTSP deployed atm.
<TheBartman> I see maybe I'll try back later when more people around
<TheBartman> kind of slow to type on the old blackberry
<bimberi> TheBartman: Yes, or try the mailing list...
<TheBartman> lol, I hate mailing lists ;)
<bimberi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<ogra> RichEd, did i get that right, is the call at 9am today ?
#edubuntu 2008-06-05
<RichEd> ogra: checking now
<RichEd> ogra: looks like it is at 9:00
<RichEd> no bridge details yet though
<ogra> Where: +44 1793 402663, +1 916-356-2663, Bridge: 3, Passcode: 3657331
<ogra> err
<ogra> RichEd, there ia a mobile meeting today at 16:00 UTC
<ogra> we should probably show up there and gather more info
<RichEd> i'll try to join ... where is it ? irc ?
<ogra> on #ubuntu-mobile
<ogra> should i add "netbook image cmpc relation" to the agenda ?
<RichEd> yes please
<ogra> done https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080605
<puesto0> hi there
<nathan406> ï»¿I have a compaq presario 2700 and i can hear sound from the speakers but i do from the headset ports
<nathan406> i am running the generic
<RichEd> nathan406: have you tried a google search against site:ubuntu.com for that ?
<RichEd> let me try quick
<RichEd> nathan406: did you test with system sound setup or from an app ?
#edubuntu 2008-06-06
<VSpike> Hi - I've installed edubuntu on a reject PC (1800+ Athlon, 256MB RAM, 40GB HDD) and I've actually installed xfce-desktop package and am running xfce because gnome is a bit sluggish
<VSpike> I'm going to donate the machine to a nursery/preschool so I wanted some way of having a launcher with really big buttons for the common apps (like gcompris, tuxpaint etc)
<VSpike> Any good ideas?
<VSpike> Currently thinking either really big desktop icons or maybe wbar
<ogra> thee are various idesk, pcmanfm come to mind
<VSpike> pcmanfm is an interesting idea
<VSpike> For desktop icons you mean?
<VSpike> I'm not sure that either give me anything that the xfce desktop doesn't already, unless I'm being thick
<ogra> yup
<ogra> well, right, ideed you can just use xfce as well :)
<ogra> i was just pointing out alternatives
<VSpike> Yeah, i use openbox myself - and i do find myself missing desktop icons a bit
<VSpike> i'm still finding software that i like, so have used rox a bit which can also do a pinboard
<VSpike> But idesk looks neat as it's not tied to a fm
<VSpike> And I still can't commit to fm :)
<VSpike> But I think for the job in question something more launcher-ish, like a panel quick launch, or wbar, or even something like the stuff they put on the eee would be good
<VSpike> Although I dont like it myself awn would be good but I think it would kill that pc
<VSpike> wbar is light
<VSpike> Hmm i think I'll try out idesk on my own box.. thanks for the pointer
<ogra> :)
<VSpike> Something like the xp start menu where you could pin some apps and where it remembered commonly used ones would also be good
<VSpike> I've seen some alternative application menus for gnome but not yet liked any of them or found them stable
<neil_d> Hi I have a set of scripts that make a CUPS printer that emails whatever was printed, anyone interested ?
<stgraber> ogra: I just made that italc-inchroot thing works correctly here :)
<stgraber> so you can now have ica running on all thin clients
<stgraber> and have the italc interface running on the server connect to them
 * ogra dances
<ogra> yay
<stgraber> then when starting a demo, only the link between the two ica (thin clients) will be started without using any server ressource (localapps kind of thing :))
<stgraber> demo should now be CPU free for the server
<stgraber> and in some cases better for the network as well, as it's now a VNC connection you have instead of the X11 traffic you had and it'll stay in the classroom without killing the servers network
<TheBartman> anyone around
<TheBartman> yo
<TheBartman> anyone around
<Muhammad_Saad> Hello, I want to know how I can re-install GRUB from Edubuntu 7.10 CD?
<dan63043> anybody around?  When my thin client tries to boot, it hangs on the USB hid-core.c driver loading.  If I disable the USB on the motherboard, no problem.  Wht to do?
#edubuntu 2008-06-07
<RichEd> highvoltage: pingie thing ... you here ?
#edubuntu 2008-06-08
<ogra> http://chinese.engadget.com/2008/06/06/computex-2008-intel-classmate-pc/
<ogra> :)
<stgraber> :)
<johnasija> hello
<johnasija> what is the add on cd for edubuntu
<johnasija> do i install hardy heron then use the add - on cd ?
<lera> hello people
<lera> I search for a software for edubuntu like netclass
<lera> Netclass is to Novell
#edubuntu 2009-06-01
<stgraber> highvoltage: Hi, I added releasing ltsp-cluster to my todolist for work so you should have it done before the end of the week.
<stgraber> sbalneav: around ?
<sbalneav> Evening al
<sbalneav> stgraber: am no
<sbalneav> now
<nubae> hi sbalneav, wanna give me your opinion on my artwork?
<nubae> http://imagebin.ca/view/5Q_bRqWN.html
<nubae> http://imagebin.ca/view/4ulQXk.html
<nubae> http://imagebin.ca/view/Ty-Cg6M.html
<nubae> tell me what u hink
<nubae> *think
<nubae> sbalneav: ^^^^
<sbalneav> looking
<nubae> does it make u laugh
<nubae> ?
<nubae> biggest question...
<sbalneav> Rather like the second one.
<sbalneav> Third one's a cute twist on an old meme.  That definitely has some potential.
<nubae> yeah.. polars bears are not lunch
<nubae> yeah 3rd one is more unviversal, we were thinking about tying to age groups
<nubae> ie... to go with package groups, preschool, primary, secondary, tertiary
<sbalneav> How many apps from debian-edu are we including?  One of the things I think would be nice to have someone look at would be once the age categories are defined, to find out what apps there are we can package from those age categories.
<stgraber> sbalneav: you mentioned a patch on ldm for that ssh disconnection thing, is that pushed somewhere ?
<sbalneav> stgraber: not yet, I've got it at work, I'll push it tomorrow.
<sbalneav> Was going to do it friday but got tied up with sabayon.
<stgraber> ok, cool. It's a bug I had on my todolist for a while so I'm quite happy to have a fix now ;)
<sbalneav> NP
<sbalneav> Really, what we need is a re-write to turn ldm into something with a proper glib main loop, with proper event handling.
<sbalneav> My plan is to have something mapped out by october, so we can all hack on getting something implemented during the hackfest in maine :)
<stgraber> sounds good :)
<stgraber> having ogra's UI would be cool too
<sbalneav> stgraber: you going to be around tomorrow?
<stgraber> yes
<sbalneav> I might prevail upon you and laserjock for some packaging help.
<stgraber> no problem
<Nubae> (05:14:57) Nubae: sbalneav: take a look at this: http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Applications/Desktop
<Nubae> (05:15:18) Nubae: that hs a nicely defined set of apps under age group/window manager/subject
<Nubae> my last pic is with koala einsteing teaching his class of penguins about relativity wjile holding a flask/beaker with a bunch of small penguins in the formation of the atom...
<Nubae> and that would then be the set of wallpapers for edubuntu at all age groups
<pygi> asanchez: I think I know you :p
<highvoltage> stgraber: excellent, thanks
<pygi> highvoltage: what did he do? :p
<highvoltage> 02:00 < stgraber> highvoltage: Hi, I added releasing ltsp-cluster to my todolist for work so you should have it done before the end of the week.
<highvoltage> pygi ^^^
<pygi> :P
<asanchez> Hi pygi, highvoltage, stgraber
<asanchez> Everything fine in the go back to home?
<highvoltage> hey asanchez
<highvoltage> heh, yes. I ran out of euros and had just 29.50 left. my taxi fare came to a total of 29.60, but the driver said that it's fine
<highvoltage> *shew*
<asanchez> 10 cents of difference
<highvoltage> heh, yes. but it does cut it quite close :)
<highvoltage> asanchez: have you heard of / looked at qimo before?
<asanchez> no, what's qimo?
<asanchez> Ummm, interesting, software 4 kids
<asanchez> We include TuxType, TuxMath, TuxPaint and GCompris in GuadalinexEdu too
<highvoltage> yeah. people seem to love qimo but it's not simply installable from ubuntu yet.
<highvoltage> I think it might be good to get them involved just like guadalinexedu is
<highvoltage> could possibly make it easier to solve common problems between the projects
<highvoltage> asanchez: you said that some of the computers at the schools there are ~7 years old? how much ram do they have?
<asanchez> Yes, I think Edubuntu must include all the benefits of GuadalinexEdu and Qimo4Kids projects
<asanchez> Celeron 2GHz and 256Mb of RAM are de lowest computers that we mantain in our net
<asanchez> We are going to test Jaunty in this computers in a few days
<pygi> highvoltage: you said you weren't going home?
<asanchez> pygi, are you at home yet?
<highvoltage> pygi: well, I'm back in my country at least, will be home in ~2 weeks :)
<pygi> asanchez: nah, tonight
<pygi> highvoltage: ah that, yes :)
<highvoltage> asanchez: ah ok
<pygi> asanchez: I need to talk to you next week probably :p
<pygi> I have some upstream-related ideas that you might perhaps somehow be interested in
<asanchez> pygi, I'll be here
<asanchez> I have just request to open IRC ports at our corporative network
<asanchez> so I can connect to IRC at work
<asanchez> we have just upload our first patch and put our fisrt package in PPA
<asanchez> I have to meet my client to ask him to use Launchpad to upload all our code
<pygi> asanchez: you have a pm :p
<sbalneav> Morning all
<alkisg> sbalneav: good morning, did you manage to get debuild to automatically sign your packages so that you don't have to enter your password every time? (looking for the same thing...)
<sbalneav> alkisg: yes, I installed the gnupg-agent package, and set it up.
<alkisg> ty, looking into it...
<sbalneav> You need to enter your password the first time you do a build, but subsequant times, it picks it up from the agent.
<alkisg> I do have the package installed, but I didn't know that it could help there, so I don't have it configured
<alkisg> sbalneav: so it's something like the seahorse-preferences? "Remember passphrases for 300 minutes"
<alkisg> Or better, "Always remember passphrases whenever logged in"
<sbalneav> Something like that, yeah.  You'd have to look in the preferences.
<sbalneav> I just got it working and moved on :)
<alkisg> Heh ok, ty
<stgraber> sbalneav: awake this early ? :)
<alkisg> Got it - seahorse-preferences works out of the box, no installation needed.
<sbalneav> stgraber: at work this early.  Wish I was back at the cottage :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: hehe but you wouldn't have internet there ;)
<sbalneav> stgraber: the older I get, the more I find I'd be perfectly willing to live without it :)
<sbalneav> So, here's a question.  Thinking about ldap support.
<sbalneav> I'd like to create a package that:
<sbalneav> 1) Depends on slapd
<sbalneav> Pre-depends, actually
<sbalneav> 2) packages a single shell or python script that creates an "initial" ldap layout
<sbalneav> (probably installed in /usr/share/ somewhere I'd expect)
<sbalneav> and (3) may (or may not, according to policy) call this shell script as part of a postinst.
<sbalneav> the idea being that teachers who want a fast start to an ldap server can simply install this package, answer a few questions (slapd ones, mostly) and have a "ready to roll" ldap server they can start adding users to.
<sbalneav> can anyone give me a pointer to a debian/ dir that might accomplish something like this, or give me any pointers as to how to go about this?  I'm not too bad at modifying existing packages, but creation from scratch leaves me kind of stymied.
<asanchez> Hola nubae
<nubae> hi asanchez
<asanchez> Hi everybody
<asanchez> are you still interested in find a job in Spain?
<nubae> I am yes
<asanchez> We are looking for new people for our project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGA_(Advanced_Management_Centre)
<nubae> pues de verdad me interesa eso mogollon...
<nubae> donde tendria que estar fisicamente localisado?
<nubae> y me podrias dar un contacto donde puedo mandar mi CV?
<nubae> Como a la mejor acuerdas, soy el mantenedor de el sistema Sugar bajo openSUSE, y probablemente hare lo mismo para ubuntu... tambien he creado el sistema fat client para LTSP bajo Ubuntu. Tengo experiencia trabajando para una escuela Britanica en el sur de Espana (Marbella), donde pudimos instalar LTSP, edubuntu, LDAP, Moodle, y sistemas abiertos que van bien con Linux en general
<nubae> Desde un punto de vista de deployments, podria ayudar bastante, ya que tengo la experiencia en el lado del consumidor tanto como en el lado de desarollador
<asanchez> te voy a dejar mi correo electronico para que me pases tu CV
<asanchez> estamos fÃ­sicamente en Sevilla
<nubae> vale, muy bien...
<asanchez> te lo paso por PM
<nubae> ok
<alkisg> So... nubae... 3 languages???!!! Or even more? :)
<nubae> 6 actually :-)
<alkisg> Woah!
<nubae> yeah, coming from Belgium we automatically learn 4, so its really just an extra 2
<alkisg> Really internationalized... :)
<alkisg> That would be German, English, French, Spanish, and ?
<nubae> Dutch and Portuguese
<alkisg> I'd mess it all up with so many languages. I even mess up with computer languages, not natural... :P
<nubae> well, I don't speak any of them perfectly, and no one can tell where I am from
<alkisg> Heh
<bencrisford> 'Ullo Everyone
<sbalneav> Hello bencrisford
<bencrisford> Theres a gcompris bug that doesn't look too tricky to fix
<bencrisford> i might give it a go :)
<nubae> hi bencrisford
<nubae> go for it... I'm sure you'll get lots of help, which bug is it?
<bencrisford> its turning out to be not as much of a bug as it seemed nubae :P, but ill still take a look
<bencrisford> it'll be my first non-documentation bug to fix
<bencrisford> so the pressures on
<bencrisford> :) :P
<bencrisford> Hmm, when doing apt-get source i got a gpg error
<Lns> Wanted to show you all a poster I made last week for Edubuntu.. let me know what you think. http://logicalnetworking.net/other/edubuntuposter.png
<bencrisford> Lns: Nice :D!
<bencrisford> what I would do, as a finishing touch - you can see a few white pixels around the logo
<Lns> bencrisford: thanks
<nubae> Lns: I did 3 wallpapers for edubuntu...
<nubae> u wanna see?
<Lns> nubae: sure!
<Lns> bencrisford: yeah, I need to touch up that logo
<bencrisford> so I would get the logo with the transparent background
<bencrisford> off the wiki
<bencrisford> nubae: I made a poster last week if you havent seen it yet ill get a link
<Lns> inkscape is so cool =)
<nubae> it is indeed, I love that program
<nubae> http://imagebin.ca/view/fCQJGvd.html
<bencrisford> nubae:  http://bencrisford.exofire.net/poster-temp1.pdf - its unfinished and messy, but y'know, it might be half decent when its done.  I was really pleased with my footer :D
<nubae> I changed the physics text to an actual formula that newton found for gravity, should be a little inside joke for those in the know...
<nubae> bencrisford: lol
<bencrisford> crap! its my ubuntu membership meeting tommorrow :( :S
<Lns> nubae: nice =)
<nubae> Lns: and this one, but I'm taking out the tag line: http://imagebin.ca/view/uq4fbyiF.html
<Lns> nubae: =D nice!
<Lns> that's awesome.
<sbalneav> Hmmm, wonder what the ldapsearch query parameter is for looking for UNSET values
<sbalneav> i.e. I can search "(ou=blah)" just fine, but "(ou=)" or "(ou='')" doesn't work.
<sbalneav> gotta look that one up
<highvoltage> bencrisford: did you find all the document patching info you needed? judging by the bug reports it seems like you did?
<bencrisford> yeah I did :), laserjock and mdke helped
<bencrisford> highvoltage: ^
<bencrisford> highvoltage: Now i'm working on a proper bug, in gcompris
<bencrisford> brb
<highvoltage> cool, I wonder where that LaserJock is
<bencrisford> highvoltage: Probably working on his PhD?  Not good enough IMO, he calls that an excuse....
<sbalneav> I'd rather see him work on that than edubuntu.  An education's important, and the most highest-returning investment you'll ever make in your life.
<Lns> sbalneav: unless you get hit by a bus the next day. ;)
 * Lns retracts his last statement to not throw bad karma LaserJocks way
<sbalneav> Well, you know what Charled de Gaulle said about that...
<Lns> nope
<sbalneav> eurgh.  I'm having a hard time finding any packaging examples for things that DON'T require a compile.
<sbalneav> Gonna have to find a package that just consists of a few shell scripts.
<sbalneav> anyone got any suggestions of "non compile" packages I can look at?
<nubae> try taking a look at the sugar packages
<nubae> most of those dont require compiliation.. just putting of files in relevant places
<nubae> python based
<nubae> http://git.sugarlabs.org/search?q=*ubuntu*
<sbalneav> Thx
<nubae> should show some usable examples
<nubae> the activities are the simplest
<alkisg> sbalneav: I used update-motd as a template for my ltsp administration scripts package. It's small.
<bencrisford> sbalneav: Lol, I do totally agree that LaserJock's phd is so, So, SO much more important than edubuntu.  I was just joking ;)
#edubuntu 2009-06-02
<sbalneav> Evening all
<stgraber> evening sbalneav
<sbalneav> stgraber: Patch looked ok to you?
<stgraber> sbalneav: yep
<sbalneav> It seems to cure the problem for me.
<stgraber> sbalneav: can you merge it ?
<sbalneav> Mind if I do it tomorrow?
<sbalneav> I'm knee deep in ldap right now :)
<highvoltage> good morning stgraber and sbalneav
<stgraber> hi highvoltage
<stgraber> sbalneav: np
<stgraber> couldn't wait ... just ordered a new laptop :)
<sbalneav> Cool, what kind?
<stgraber> lenovo x200s
<sbalneav> Nice
<stgraber> yep, quite expensive but the hardware seems awesome for a laptop of that size :)
<stgraber> (the CPU from my current laptop is actually faster but it's a lot bigger too and doesn't stay up long on battery)
<sbalneav> I've gone small.  I've got an Acer Aspire One, and I love it.
<highvoltage> lenovo x200 = <3
<stgraber> highvoltage: saw too many of them in Barcelona, couldn't resist buying one ;)
<sbalneav> Hmmm, looks like ldapscripts does most of what we want, in terms of setting up the initial ou's.
<sbalneav> The templating system's fine, but we'll need to get something in there for handling password expiry, and account disabling.
<stgraber> sbalneav: did you look at GoSA ?
<sbalneav> there'll be some mods to the scripts needed, and some mode defaults added to the templates.
<sbalneav> GoSA?
<stgraber> web interface on top of ldap for easy user management, ACLs and templating
<stgraber> requires an openldap and some custom ldap schema, other than that it works just fine (we're using it at Revolution Linux for some customers)
<sbalneav> Doesn't ubuntu want something in general that will tie in with administration->users and groups?
<stgraber> well, users and groups would need quite a lot of work to work correctly with large ldap deployments then
<sbalneav> Well, users-and-groups is ok, as a front end.  The problem is the system-tools-backends package.
<stgraber> I don't know if you tried doing a "getent passwd" on a LDAP server with 40000 users but that can take a while ;) so you'd need a tool that's quite good at doing filtering
<sbalneav> Well, I don't have 40000 users, no.  But my understanding is (at least with openldap) that usually by default, there's very little indexing.
<sbalneav> I'm certainly not AGAINST a web tool, however, it means that, for people who want local users and groups, they use one tool, and for people who want ldap, they *right away* have to learn another tool.
<sbalneav> My preferred solution would be for small and medium, either local or ldap, if they can use adm-uag, and if they've got 40,000 users and GoSA does a better job of large deployments, then they can switch to that.
<sbalneav> But I'm willing to suspect that our 90% use-case will be "under 500" users.
<sbalneav> Another big thing that people seem to want is some kind of bulk import tool.
<sbalneav> i.e. I have a spreadsheet of names, and I want to turn them all into users
<alkisg> sbalneav++ :) (and good morning all)
<sbalneav> Morning alkisg
<stgraber> yeah, that's quite usual for schools to have that kind of files
<sbalneav> I suspect we can hash it out a little more at the next meeting.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bencrisford> stgraber: Ping
<LaserJock> morning everybody
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: ping
<highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
<highvoltage> LaserJock: good ping timing, I'm at my computer now for the first time today
<LaserJock> are we going to have an EC meeting to get nubae approved?
<highvoltage> well, reviewed at least (we can't assume approval). what time/date?
<LaserJock> whenever I guess
<highvoltage> would tomorrow be too short notice?
<stgraber> LaserJock: pong
<bencrisford> stgraber: Do I get a pong? :( :P
<stgraber> bencrisford: pong too
<bencrisford> :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: thursday or friday would be better for me
<bencrisford> stgraber: Its meant to be my membership meeting today, but im sixth and I can only stay an hour.  Am I likely to be fitted in, or should I apply for a different board?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok I think friday is good then
<stgraber> bencrisford: I won't stay for much more than an hour either. Depends how many won't be at the meeting
<bencrisford1> ok :/
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what time? 16:00 UTC? (or was it 18:00 last time?)
<LaserJock> whatever works for you guys
<LaserJock> 16:00-18:00 URC are good times
<LaserJock> *UTC
<highvoltage> ok 18:00 then
<stgraber> friday 18:00 UTC, noted
<LaserJock> somebody want to send an email?
<LaserJock> you know, it's really sad IMO that Linux nerds can spend hours and hours flaming each other on whether to use base 2 or base 10 math but couldn't care less about getting Linux into schools
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's not just Linux nerds per se, people generally just suck.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: shall I send the announcement?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: sure awesome
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but yes, sad nontheless
<highvoltage> LaserJock, stgraber, (others): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
<highvoltage> anything else we should add?
<highvoltage> I'll post it to the list once we have a bit more in there
<stgraber> highvoltage: looks good
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think those will actually take up the time
<Svenstaro> I still didn't spot any UDS updates on the mailing list.
<highvoltage> ok I wanted to add karmic discussion too, but I agree that's probably enough and that we can target the karmic stuff more thoroughly in another meeting
<highvoltage> LaserJock: stgraber talked to cjwatson about enabling universe for edubuntu builds, and he said that it would be trivial to implement
<highvoltage> implement/enable
<LaserJock> yeah, I actually found the code for it a couple days ago
<LaserJock> the problem will be Canonical supportability
<highvoltage> LaserJock: !
<highvoltage> (for lack of any words)
<LaserJock> we can build with Universe but I wonder how that effects the ability of users to buy support
<highvoltage> I guess we can care about Canonical supportability again when they acknowledge that edubuntu exists in the first place
<highvoltage> LaserJock: perhaps this is something that we need to discuss, afaik we were all cool with enabling universe
<LaserJock> well, I think we would just want to talk with Canonical
<LaserJock> let them know or whatever
<highvoltage> ok, 100%
<LaserJock> regardless of my feelings about Canonical's position, it's a big shift for our users if they can no longer buy support from Canonical
<LaserJock> even if we do add Universe, what's going to happen?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: stgraber made a good point, we don't want to go through all the hoops of getting something like sugar into main, but it would be nice on the add-on disc
<LaserJock> do we drop all of Edubuntu to Universe?
<LaserJock> do we just add on stuff that's not in Main right now?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well if something is in main and it can stay there I see no point in demoting it
<LaserJock> how much and to what kind of .iso?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: and if it's officially supported it should stay so if possible
<LaserJock> I actually can see some point
<LaserJock> right now I'm the only Core Dev
<LaserJock> if we drop to Universe then you have the whole MOTU team as potential sponsors
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep and stgraber can upload some stuff into main
<highvoltage> LaserJock: *nod* exactly
<LaserJock> I think using Universe will be a major benefit
<LaserJock> especially since we'll have the archive reorganization at some point and the difference will all go away
<LaserJock> *but* we do need to think about the ramifications and how to best go about it
<LaserJock> so that'd be a good topic for the meeting
<highvoltage> indeed. we seem to get a good response from the community council when we ask them about things
<highvoltage> hmm, perhaps we should ask the technical board about this specific issue?
<LaserJock> what would they decide?
<LaserJock> hmm, not that you mention it
<highvoltage> maybe not so much decide as just give official blessing. although I guess tb != canonical
<LaserJock> 1) we should ask Canonical what would happen if we drop to Universe
<LaserJock> 2) we should ask the TB what to do about the .iso issue (addon or full distro, where is it hosted)
<highvoltage> well "drop to universe" sounds harsh. perhaps rather say include packages from universe, since we won't drop main
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep. just keep in mind that we said we're planning full iso for karmic
<LaserJock> well, there are some apps I would drop to Universe if we did
<highvoltage> LaserJock: but of course it won't hurt getting all the groundwork done ASAP
<LaserJock> what did we say?
<highvoltage> ehm... full iso for karmic?
<highvoltage> (or at least not earlier...)
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I thought we were talking about karmic+1 maybe since it's LTS
<nubae> I'm here now
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ugh, I suck
<nubae> I scrolled up and saw my name mentioned
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I meant karmic+1
<LaserJock> I still think we need to discuss the release strategy here
<LaserJock> the consensus seems to be that we focus on LTS releases
<LaserJock> which sounds good
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how that's going to work out in practice
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes, sorry I meant loopy not karmic
<nubae> I thought I'd mention that its likely I start working for the Junta de Andalucia next month (Guadalinex) which is based on edubuntu and ubuntu and they want much closer ties to the edubuntu project
<nubae> u guys have spoken to asanchez I take it
<LaserJock> nubae: awesome news!
<highvoltage> nubae: congrats!
<nubae> yeah indeed, dream job... stupid pay, but dream job
<nubae> so they say its the biggest edu linux deployment world wide
<nubae> dont know how they are basing that, but sounds like one hell of a test pilot
<highvoltage> LaserJock: so karmic = add-on disc, karmic+1 = full distro + addon disc (or some variation of this based on future discussion)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure you can do both
<highvoltage> nubae: test pilot?
<LaserJock> nubae: Guadalinex has been a long time, but distant friend
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think add-on is important for people who want to support some apps from the edubuntu collection on something other than gnome
<LaserJock> highvoltage: right, but I don't think we can get the hosting for both
<nubae> well, right now, they are simply installing guadalinex directly on the machines
<LaserJock> I think Edubuntu will get 1 image/.iso
<highvoltage> LaserJock: asanches is actually hanging out here and wants to be a full edubuntu developer!
<nubae> no distribution method, no ltsp
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well, it's possible to have a live CD repositories on it, the ubuntu live cd is like that currently
<highvoltage> LaserJock: so perhaps it should just be a combined disc if possible?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think we need to get some good AptOnCD instructions and have a good metapackage system for internet installs
<LaserJock> well, we might be able to do some
<LaserJock> but again, the problem is space
<nubae> anyway I think I'll recommend to ditch guadalinex and localise edubuntu
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hosting space?
<nubae> so that work isnt done 10 times
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we got bumped off of releases.ubuntu.com due to space
<highvoltage> nubae: asanchez said that they'll use Edubuntu if we sort out the menu problems
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we're gonna have to fight to get back on as it is, adding another GB or so will be very difficult
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I feel strongly that it's totally, totally wrong for us to cripple ourselves in terms of features and what our users want because there's not space on a server
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, I know, but it *is* a limitation, it always has been in Ubuntu
<nubae> highvoltage: +10
<LaserJock> we can talk with Mark and slangasek to see what can be done
<LaserJock> my impression was that Edubuntu was dropped because it wasn't being used much
<highvoltage> LaserJock: don't we have the option of hosting it elsewhere or buying some disks for them?
<nubae> LaserJock: that kind of thinking will take us back to the stone age... take a look at how opensuse-edu is succeding because of their multiple image systems
<nubae> they have images for usb/dvd/cd/virtual machine appliances
<nubae> and it just really helps
<highvoltage> nubae: heh, don't get LaserJock started
<LaserJock> nubae: I totally realize that
<LaserJock> I'm just being practical and realistic here
<LaserJock> Ubuntu's mirror system is *very* nice to have
<LaserJock> if we have to make a few compromises I think it could be worth it
<highvoltage> LaserJock: you're right
<Svenstaro> Ubuntu's mirroring system isn't the end-of-all. There are many people who can and would provide free mirrors for us in case we host elsewhere.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I mean, canonical obviously has some restraints and it's not necessarilly their fault, and we need to work with them where we can to make things easier for everybody
<LaserJock> well, it's not the end-of-all
<nubae> Svenstaro: right, thats whats happened with sugar
<nubae> grass roots mirrors
<LaserJock> but Ubuntu does have mirrors in  just about *every* country
<nubae> works like a charm
<Svenstaro> we don't *need* mirrors in just about every country
<nubae> look, what I see is that canonical should put SOME commitment to support edubuntu
<LaserJock> they do
<nubae> not enough
<LaserJock> we just need to see how much we can get out of the pie
<nubae> all the other distros have MUCH more support from their sponsors
<LaserJock> when I mentioned to Mark that we got dropped he was pretty upset
<highvoltage> in my strong opinion, edubuntu needs to be a DVD in order to be successful
<Svenstaro> highvoltage, I fully agree.
<LaserJock> I think we could talk with him and see if we can get something going
<nubae> well, there was all this talk about how important education was and we all know what happened
<LaserJock> *but* somebody needs to do it
<highvoltage> I can't think of any other way how we'll be able to meet the needs of our users by sticking to a CD
<LaserJock> let's not just ditch everything without trying
<nubae> I don't wanna beat a dead horse, but...
<highvoltage> nubae: please, please don't say opensuse
<LaserJock> well, here's my point
<nubae> hehe, I wasnt going to, but now that u mention it...
<nubae> :-) :p
<LaserJock> with the exception of highvoltage talking with colin
<LaserJock> I've yet to see anybody here talk to Ubuntu/Canonical about it
<highvoltage> it was stgraber who talked to cjwatson
<LaserJock> so we have *no* idea what's possible
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, so we need to open some communication channels
<LaserJock> so please exhaust the existing resources before heading outside Ubuntu
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, can't we just go ahead and assume that we ARE being hosted by Canonical and that they will continue?
<LaserJock> because it really is preferable to use Ubuntu resources where possible
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I feel confident that if we explain to them what we need and why that we'll get a good response
<nubae> of course it is
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: well, the only thing is that we're currently being hosted at ~ 300MB
<nubae> right, it would be ludicrous for them to not take edubuntu seriously... but... they need to know that we still care
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> from the emails I've seen from other teams, it seems many think edubuntu is dead
<nubae> and should be buried
<nubae> that notion needs to dissapear
<highvoltage> nubae: links please
<LaserJock> I am confident that if Edubuntu turns around and we build a user base Canonical will be more than happy to host the .isos
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, I can take over the hosting, it's a non-issue. I'm not a good mirror at just 1TB of traffic but others will do that. Also we have bittorrent.
<LaserJock> they're frankly just not going to spend resources on a failed project
<highvoltage> *nod*
<highvoltage> and recently edubuntu *has* been a failed project
<LaserJock> *but* somebody does need to ask the release team if it'd be OK for us to work towards getting a DVD
<LaserJock> last time I talked with slangasek he said no
<LaserJock> but I think with a good plan of what we're doing with it
<LaserJock> that there might be more motivation
<highvoltage> yes, let's just do it through official channels and as formally as possible this time, along with a proposal of what we want on the dvd and how much space it will consume (more or less, of course)
<nubae> I see no point in making anything BUT a cd/usb image
<nubae> the education packages require that
<nubae> sorry... DVD, not cd
<LaserJock> I totally agree
<LaserJock> there's no doubt that we need to move towards DVD/usb images
<highvoltage> if the response is that it absolutely can't happen, and we can't change their mind, then we can create a wiki page explaining why we can't do certain things along with that response
<LaserJock> *or* just do internet-only
<Svenstaro> highvoltage, why not just go ahead doing what we want on our own, if that happens?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I was surprised at UDS to discover that .za isn't the only country with heavy bandwidth issues, there were other people who also said that a dvd/usb disk would be beneficial because they have no bandwidth at the schools
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> Wondered why things were quiet
<sbalneav> apparently I disconnected.
<LaserJock> even in the US a DVD is nice to have
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
<highvoltage> Svenstaro: that's kind of what we're doing, but we want to do it properly, and we want to do it the ubuntu way and work with canonical to produce something supportable
<highvoltage> Svenstaro: we're not currently limited to do much, really
<LaserJock> ZaReason said that a DVD would be most helpful in them selling machines with pre-installed Edubuntu
<highvoltage> afternoon sbalneav, welcome back
<LaserJock> well, let's be clear here
<nubae> have to go eat, biab
<LaserJock> Canonical is *not* doing a lot of things
<LaserJock> but Canonical still does a lot of stuff for Ubuntu as a whole
<sbalneav> So, I had a look last night at ldapscripts
<highvoltage> totally, Canonical does great work on and for Ubuntu, I don't have a slightest doubt about that
<sbalneav> which does probably 85% of what we want.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: have you been in touch with the ubuntu server team or followed the authentication server discussions that took place at UDS?
<LaserJock> I don't know why Guadalinex isn't using edubuntu-menus
<coz_> hey all
<LaserJock> it's been around since like Edgy
<highvoltage> sbalneav: there are plans for automating a lot of the ldappy stuff in karmic, but perhaps they can benefit from some of the stuff you work on?
<coz_> have any issues popped up with edubuntu and compiz?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: can the edubuntu-menus sort the applications by grade like they have it?
<sbalneav> highvoltage: haven't seen a spec yet
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it can do whatever you want
<sbalneav> is there one?
<highvoltage> coz_: edubuntu+compiz is exactly the same as ubuntu+compiz
<LaserJock> coz_: specifically what?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I'm searching for it...
<coz_> nothing in particular guys just wondering
<LaserJock> I don't know of any particular issues
<LaserJock> some apps work better than others with compositing
<highvoltage> coz_: LTSP is doing work on getting compiz in LTSP working nicely, but that's about it in terms of compiz and edubuntu
<coz_> highvoltage,  ok cool
<coz_> no one has come into #compiz with edubuntu so I was just wondering if you guys had anyone withissues  no biggie :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: here's one, I'm sure there's more on it... looking... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkDirectoryUserLogin
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ah here's the other one: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-karmic-directory-enabled-services
<highvoltage> LaserJock: can I find documentation on edubuntu-menus anywhere?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the package itself is fairly simple and self-explanatory
<highvoltage> ok
<LaserJock> if we really want to make a push for it we'll want documentation of course
<LaserJock> but right now it's basically proof-of-concept
<LaserJock> however
<highvoltage> ok, I just want to investigate whether it would be useful for guadalinex
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Studio did use it for the basis of their menus
<LaserJock> of course it would be :-)
<highvoltage> currently they modify 43 packages to change the .desktop files to get to what they want
<LaserJock> the guadalinex case is the *exact* reason I built it
<LaserJock> yeah, that's really nuts
<highvoltage> ok cool
<LaserJock> I have no idea why they did that
<LaserJock> :-)
<highvoltage> well I'll try to figure out how it works and will ping you if I get stuck, I'll put together a guide that they can test out
<LaserJock> basically they're modifying the menu at the .desktop file level, at the menu items themselves
<highvoltage> LaserJock: they said that they'd use plain edubuntu if we can get that right
<LaserJock> what i did was to modify the way in which the menu gets built in the first place
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that's a *big* win imho
<LaserJock> huge!
<highvoltage> LaserJock: if canonical still wants to shun us after that they can go... erm (pm)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: I've subscribed to both of them, but I have a sinking feeling that, like a lot of previous attempts to "get the ldap situation in ubuntu fixed", they're too ambitious, and won't be met.
<LaserJock> I don't think Canonical shuns us
<LaserJock> they're just not putting resources into projects that aren't working
<LaserJock> they've made some mistakes in the past, no doubt
<LaserJock> but I believe Mark wants Edubuntu to succeed very much
<highvoltage> sbalneav: indeed. I do find it encouraging though that there is renewed energy on the issue, and if you have breakthroughs then it would be cool if you shared it on the spec/wiki, imho
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> One of the big things that would help, is fixing up ldap scripts
<sbalneav> sorry, ldapscripts
<sbalneav> it needs 3 things to be useful to us, and should be easy to patch.
<sbalneav> 1) adherance to the "users primary group is same as userid" standard method of doing groups in Linux
<sbalneav> 2) default addition of support for shadow password support (i.e. expiry, passwd aging, disabling, etc.)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: at the risk of sounding like a broken record, they really should make a plan for server space for us if there's a problem there currently. it's not like disk space is expensive, it's not like we're asking to host some weird bebibuntu derivative or something
<LaserJock> highvoltage: right, but we need to request it
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, I had a peek at all the info you gave me, and it seems the only thing I would have to do is write a 'seed', a package selection and pass it onto the ubuntu release folks?
<sbalneav> 3) a tie in to the systems-tools-backends package.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: how about adding that to the wiki page/spec?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we got dropped I believe at the last minute because of UNR
<LaserJock> highvoltage: but Mark told me that he was surprised about it and that we should get our space back
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we just need to make our case and *communicate* with them
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, we're going over things we've been through before, let's move on
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: we already have seeds
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what channel should we follow? should we take this up with the TB?
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: so it would basically just be a matter of modifying or adding a new seed
<pygi> highvoltage: bleh
<pygi> why is the meeting at that time :(
<LaserJock> but there are some bits that do need to be changed so that the current addon disk can be made into a DVD
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I would maybe start with cjwatson/slangasek and see
<Svenstaro> LaserJock, I wasn't able to find the existing seeds. Where would they be?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
<highvoltage> pygi: we asked in the channel and that suited people in the euro and american timezones well
<pygi> highvoltage: :(
<pygi> I am traveling to my hometown
<LaserJock> Svenstaro: the seeds for karmic are at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.karmic
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how do you want to approach it, should we start a conversation with them on IRC? or e-mail for records?
<LaserJock> IRC would be fine for initial conversations
<LaserJock> to see what needs to be done
<highvoltage> pygi: we wanted to give enough notice since it will be an EC meeting, but we can schedule an EC meeting again for later this month
<LaserJock> we just don't know
<LaserJock> it could be trivial
<highvoltage> pygi: we'll have other edubuntu meetings at least weekly
<pygi> highvoltage: translate EC?
<pygi> council?
<highvoltage> pygi: si
<pygi> oh well, you have fun then, I have nothing to do here :p
<alkisg> sbalneav: woah! http://system-tools-backends.freedesktop.org/dbus-spec.html => are these specs actually implemented?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: btw, it's not that I'm not interested, I just think your input would be really useful to the server team who wants to implement these things
<sbalneav> alkisg: argh
<sbalneav> yeah, and THEY don't have anything in there for shadow support either.
<sbalneav> criminy
<sbalneav> I had to add shadow support to pam-ldap, I've had to add it to ltsp :)
<sbalneav> Seems like my whole life is spent getting people to support a standard that's been around for yonks and yonks.
<alkisg> They do have a field named "User Encrypted Password"
<sbalneav> password last changed
<alkisg> And I like the network interfaces dbus interface
<sbalneav> min password age
<sbalneav> max password age
<sbalneav> etc.
<sbalneav> If you can't expire passwords, you will never, EVER be considered even remotely applicable for most corporate, school, or government institutions.
<sbalneav> Most government/corporate places want password aging every 90 days
<sbalneav> schools want accounts to auto-expire at the end of the term
<sbalneav> etc.
<alkisg> Yes, what you're saying is reasonable... I wonder why they didn't put support for that in the spec.
<sbalneav> Because everyone forgets it.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, that's about what I figured
<LaserJock> it sucks losing the Ubuntu mirrors
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I'm ok with the answer we have from him, just having it on cdimage is better than nothing, we'll just manually have to arrange some mirrors, if we can get 2 per continent that would already be ok, but let's not get ahead of ourselves
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> we could put out a call
<LaserJock> and lean on bittorrent a lot
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think the old edubuntu versions and gobuntu can really be removed, but I won't go into that with slangasek now
<sbalneav> Ah, looks as if upstream for systems-tools-backend has support for it.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: can you take care of the TB agenda item?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: just added it
<highvoltage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<LaserJock> ok awesome
<LaserJock> that's progress!
<highvoltage> well, my connection is slow so it might still be posting :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: egh, we missed a TB meeting today
<LaserJock> yeah
<highvoltage> we'll just have to catch the next one
<LaserJock> we're not in a huge rush
<highvoltage> I'm anxious for us to make progress though
<highvoltage> people are keeping an eye on the project wondering whether it will flourish of flounder
<highvoltage> I'd like to show real, steady and constant progress
<highvoltage> but I agree, we don't have to rush it
<bencrisford> stgraber: I have 50 minutes until the meeting right?
<pygi> highvoltage: patience my friend, patience is the virtue
<highvoltage> pygi: that's the best thing I ever heard you say
<pygi> highvoltage: I am not sure if I should feel insulted or honored :p
<highvoltage> pygi: hehe
<pygi> highvoltage: I'll post the video of you singing now!
<highvoltage> pygi: you're bluffing!
<pygi> wanna bet? :D
<highvoltage> no, I'll just stay quiet then.
 * highvoltage looks through the CoC to see if there's anything about blackmail
<pygi> highvoltage: ha! :)
<pygi> I think I revoked my CoC signature, not sure xD
 * bencrisford looks through the CoC to see if there is anything about bribing people for membership testimonials
<pygi> bencrisford: there is
 * bencrisford grins :D
<bencrisford> oh :(
<pygi> can I give you one advice?
 * bencrisford revokes signiture, bribes, then signs again :D
<bencrisford> pygi: Can you give me one advice?  Sorry, I don't understand..?
<pygi> I think I decided after two years of contribution to go for membership
<bencrisford> oh ?
<pygi> the reason is that I had all the doors open without even being a member
<pygi> in that time I also got some of the packages uploaded in main
<bencrisford> well technically i have
<bencrisford> as documentation is in main]
<bencrisford> :), but i guess that dont count
<pygi> people will listen if you have something to say, even if you're member
<pygi> not*
<highvoltage> pygi +1
<pygi> guadelinux folks are great example, I think highvoltage and stgraber will agree that we've learned a lot from them
<highvoltage> they are good people
<pygi> highvoltage: ^_^
<pygi> better then you for sure :p
 * pygi hides from highvoltage's rage
 * bencrisford disagrees!
 * bencrisford is a proud subsriber of highvoltage's blog
 * bencrisford warns pygi not to cross him
<bencrisford> or there will be consequences...
<pygi> bencrisford: nah, he's great actually, I just love to joke him around :p
<bencrisford> :P hehe
<bencrisford> if you guys were on the membership board, would you say yes or no to me? :/
<pygi> bencrisford: highvoltage is on the membership board(edubuntu one) but I'd say no
<pygi> I want you to become a member as well as you, but I don't want you to become a member just for the sake of being a member
<bencrisford> this is ubuntu membership pygi, not edubuntu
<pygi> oh :P still, the same answer :)
<bencrisford> and i resent that im being a member for the sake of it, thats far from the truth :P
<LaserJock> bencrisford: how many testimonials do you have?
 * bencrisford mutters...  "two.."
<bencrisford> but i haven't told many people i work with on ubuntu about my membership application
<bencrisford> maybe i shoulda done, but i didnt wanna make people feel they had to give me testimonials because im so beautifal and lovely :) :P
<LaserJock> I don't know, I think it'd be close for me
<bencrisford> :S
<LaserJock> but I have no idea how the member boards have been doing things for the last year or so
<LaserJock> bencrisford: you'll certainly get there, it's just a matter of when the time is right
<bencrisford> but in ubuntu, you kind of need it in order to start development according to the wiki...
<bencrisford> people just dont get taken seriously without the status
<bencrisford> the system sucks IMO
<bencrisford> i would be happier if it werent there at all
<Svenstaro> huh, you need recommendations to be a edubuntu member?
 * Svenstaro overhears something after reconnecting
<pygi> Svenstaro: yes :p
<Svenstaro> Now that's very open and welcoming for people who want to help out.
<pygi> heh
<pygi> I already told you
<pygi> you don't have to be a member to contribute
<bencrisford> im not becoming an edubuntu member Svenstaro, lol id have no chance of getting that :P
<bencrisford> im up for ubuntu membership
<Svenstaro> Like there was no shortage of contributors or anything :D
<highvoltage> bencrisford: how long have you been contributing to ubuntu?
<Svenstaro> pygi, that's like, yeah sure we'll take your stuff. What, you want privileges in return? Screw you! Worthless contributor!
<pygi> Svenstaro: its not like that
<bencrisford> dunno, a while :P, but I spend most of my time nowadays on ubuntu stuff highvoltage, looking at the criteria - i, personally think I deserve it.  but it doesnt matter what i think :P
<highvoltage> bencrisford: 6 months? more than a year?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: there is *absolutely* no requirement for you to be a Member to contribute to development
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Membership is a recognition of effort, not a status symbol
<pygi> Svenstaro: being a member is just a recognition of your contribution
<pygi> yes
<pygi> LaserJock: ++
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Not to contribute, but to start joining teams, and incrementing your development roles...  universe-contributors allows people with ubuntu membership or ready for it, its a requirement
<highvoltage> members also get IRC cloaks, @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, get to post onto the ubuntu planet, in short, they become reprasentatives of ubuntu and you can't hand that out like sweeties
<LaserJock> bencrisford: I don't think it is a requirement
<highvoltage> you need to know that someone can be trusted and that they are in it for the long hauls
<bencrisford> you need to be ready for it at least LaserJock
<LaserJock> bencrisford: Ubuntu Membership is require for MOTU
<bencrisford> and contributors
<LaserJock> no
<bencrisford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev
<LaserJock> Contributors is how you can get Membership
<LaserJock> like what we do with Edubuntu
<bencrisford> the universe contributors is an official team
<LaserJock> yes
<bencrisford> its half way from prospective to motu
<bencrisford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#ContribDev
<LaserJock> I helped create it, I'm aware of what it is
<bencrisford> oh, well even if you didnt, i know you'd know more than me :), but it does say there
<LaserJock> when you become a Contributing Developer you *get* Membership
<bencrisford> i know
<LaserJock> but it's not a pre-condition
<bencrisford> well you need to be ready for it
<LaserJock> and in fact Contributing Developer is not required for anything
<LaserJock> the point is, with the exception of some advanced teams, Ubuntu Membership is not required to join teams
<bencrisford> well, i guess, but my point is that ubuntu membership is like a qualification for the ubuntu community
<LaserJock> and it is flat out not required to contribute
<pygi> ...
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I just looked at your wiki page, it's very nice all the things you've been getting involved with
<LaserJock> like take dchen
<pygi> bencrisford: haven't I told you that I didn't *WANT* to become a member for two years?
<bencrisford> pygi: I don't care if i don't get membership
<highvoltage> bencrisford: but it seems that it's all very recent things, you might have trouble proving the sustainability part yet
<bencrisford> it would just be a nice recognition
<pygi> highvoltage: it used to be two months sustained contribution
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I'm definately here to stay, and ive had more than two months...
<highvoltage> pygi: yeah there was a loco session at the UDS where they discussed that there was a perception that membership was given too easily and that it should be fixed
<LaserJock> agreed
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I'm not putting you down, just giving some advice. I'm definitely not going to stop you from going for membership
<LaserJock> for sure
<bencrisford> im not gonna be all that bothered if i don't get membership, you're saying i want it too bad, i dont want it that much at all, it would just be a nice recognition of the nights ive been up in the early hours of the morning triaging bugs :P:P:P
<pygi> highvoltage: I agree
<highvoltage> bencrisford: I'm convinced that if you don't get it the first time round, you'll certainly get it in the future if you keep at it
<pygi> bencrisford: I've been up not sleeping for three years now :)
<pygi> (And joking everyone around me :p)
<bencrisford> pygi: Haha :P :)
<highvoltage> talking of which, I really need to get some sleep myself
<highvoltage> g'night edub
<bencrisford> night ;)
<pygi> night highvoltage
<highvoltage> *edubuntu (see the stuff I try to autocomplete when I'm sleepy)
<pygi> highvoltage: cheers dude
<sbalneav> Night highvoltage
<sbalneav> All the server stuff depends on getting Kerberos set up.  Not an insurmountable problem, but puts a LOT more work for the small-time sysadmin to try to learn krb5 concepts.
<LaserJock> can that be overcome at all with education/documentation?
<bencrisford> Well, wish me luck with the membership meeting ;).  But i'm sixth, so you never know i might not even get fitted in today!
<LaserJock> bencrisford: good luck!
<bencrisford> ty :)
<bencrisford> but i can only stay an hour
<bencrisford> and im sixth :/
<bencrisford> In case anyone's interested.  I went to the membership meeting, got straight +0s.  So it coulda been worse :).  Nevermind, :/.
<bencrisford> haha!  45 minutes after my membership meeting, my phone reminder for it goes off
<bencrisford> typical :P:P:P
<sbalneav> straight +0's?
<bencrisford> yep
<bencrisford> they werent -1s
<bencrisford> so its not that bad
<bencrisford> sbalneav: they just needed more evidence of sustained contribution
<bencrisford> and right now i have a wide spread of contributions all over the place, they would like a more sustained contribution in one or two areas
<sbalneav> Takes a while.  I've been contributing to Free Software for 15 years :)
<bencrisford> yeah, and nice :)
<pygi> sbalneav: and you still didnt implement burning over iscsi :P
<sbalneav> pygi: not a priority for me :)
<sbalneav> I scratch my own itches :)
<pygi> how rude :p
<sbalneav> No, just practial :)
<sbalneav> Practical
<sbalneav> maybe by retirement, I'll learn how to type
<sbalneav> Well, I think I'll put in some more work on Sabayon tonight.
<sbalneav> After a week, I've received no feedback on any of my packages.
<bencrisford> Night everyone, pygi ;), sbalneav ;), stgraber ;)
<sbalneav> Good night.
<sbalneav> Off home for the day.  On later tonight.
<asanchez> Hi all
#edubuntu 2009-06-03
<sbalneav> Whoohoo, new version of warzone2100 out
<stgraber> sbalneav: hey, what about that ldm fix ? ;)
<akgraner> I just finished helping my kids install edubuntu..
<akgraner> can't wait to sit down with them after school tomorrow and see how it goes...
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> akgraner: how old are they?
<akgraner> 12 and 13
<HedgeMage> That's a fun age.
<akgraner> yes fun...yea that's the word for teenagers...
<akgraner> :-D!
<akgraner> They love computers and they decided they would put the Macs down and try ubuntu
<akgraner> going to be their project for the summer
<akgraner> the docs are very helpful so far...:-)
<HedgeMage> If you remind me after the next week is out, I'll have time to dig out some of the activities from the junior high computer club I ran for you.
<sbalneav> stgraber: I'll get to it.  In a rush
<sbalneav> ?
<stgraber> sbalneav: not really but I have releasing a new set of packages for integration in karmic this week
<sbalneav> ok
<asanchez> Hi derosa
<derosa> hi al
<derosa> hi all
<asanchez> derosa, I'm going to talk with HP to ask them if we can publish the workaround to make possible to use HP ScanJet G2410 in Ubuntu although we can't use it in our schools
<asanchez> maybe somebody that uses Ubuntu owns one HP G2410
<highvoltage> hi asanchez
<asanchez> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> I talked to LaserJock last night, he thinks that the edubuntu-menus package might solve some problems for you
<highvoltage> there's currently no real documentation on it, so I'll look into it during the week and put some guide together if you'd like to try it
<asanchez> I'm installing a fresh install of edubuntu right now to analize the diferences between GuadalinexEdu and Edubuntu
<asanchez> highvoltage, of course
<ogra> well, its quite trivial ... just add the users to the right groups
<asanchez> we looked at edubuntu-menus before but i remember that we can't customize menu items with it
<ogra> docs are needed on how to set up new group profiles
<ogra> you can, but you need to edit the .menu files
<ogra> we had several specs about integrating that functionallity into the menu editor but they were never implemented
<ogra> would be a good task for a wannabe edubuntu developer to write the proper patches ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: right, like I said, some documentation is required
<asanchez> one question: edubuntu-desktop package only adds applications to Education menu?
<ogra> no
<asanchez> or any other application is added to other menus?
<ogra> it just uses the shipped .desktop files of the apps ...
<ogra> so they show up wherever they register by default with xdg
<asanchez> ok, I can see TuxMath it's added to Games menu by example
<ogra> right
<ogra> which is the right thing to do :)
<asanchez> yes, I know
<ogra> sadly kdeedu doesnt agree and adds everything to the education menu
<ogra> so you dont know which app does what if you dont know them by name
<nubae> ogra: cant u just install a patch on top to put it in the place u want?
<asanchez> yes, this is the reason we have to organize them in submenus by subject
<nubae> saludos asanchez
<asanchez> hello nubae
<ogra> nubae, indeed, but thats evil and hackish
<ogra> asanchez, i disagree
<asanchez> we use dpkg-divert in GuadalinexEdu
<nubae> yeah well, without evil, there would be no good, so I say patch away :p
<asanchez> we overwrite each entry of every package
<ogra> apps should go in the right places in the main menu ... the way to do what you want is to have a proper selection of the apps that are *shown* not to add more confusing submenus
<ogra> and thats what edubuntu-menus does
<asanchez> ogra, we have specific requirements of our schools
<ogra> the plan was to couple the .menu files with a scheduler
<ogra> so you add the student's schedule to the app and the menu selection will change from class to class
<ogra> based on what the teacher needs/allows
<nubae> ogra: very cool, something I have been asked for more than once by local schools in Austria
<ogra> all other ways break the standards
<nubae> basically teachers want the menu to be as simple and relevant as possible for the class being taught
<ogra> and are essentially just bloating the menus
<asanchez> we'll chage the way to do it
<nubae> seems quite obvious when u think about it, but there is still no good solution for that
<ogra> sadly the edubuntu-menus implementation never got to that point
<ogra> but that was its final target ...
<nubae> what was it a python gui?
<nubae> could it be resurected?
<ogra> no, there is just the framework yet
<nubae> ah ok
<ogra> the plan was to implement edubuntu-menu editing in alacarte
<nubae> alacarte? rings a bell
<ogra> you currently can already make use of it but need to edit the .menu files manually
<ogra> alacarte -> the menu editor in ubuntu
<nubae> does it only exist for ubuntu?
<ogra> for *ubuntu, yes
<ogra> but should be portable to any xdg compliant distro
<nubae> hmmm, its in the opensuse repos too
<nubae> menu editor for gnome
<ogra> though i'm not sure anyone ever tested it on KDE
<ogra> oh, you mean alacarte
<alkisg> sbalneav has a working version of sabayon, which I think can apply menus by group.
<nubae> yeah
<ogra> sabayon is different
<alkisg> So it would be a matter of customizing the menus and saving to a sabayon profile, and applying this profile to a group (=class) of students
<ogra> right, thats what sabayon does
<ogra> edubuntu-menus works on the system level without special profiles, just by having system groups
<ogra> i.e. if you have a math group and a student is in there she will have the selected math apps in the menu by default
<asanchez> nowadays we only make difference between teachers and students
<ogra> right, but you already have a well working group system in the distro ....
<alkisg> Also it would be easy to customize the menus by using different XDG_DATA_DIRS (if I remember correctly) env vars on a per group basis.
<ogra> while sabayon adds a more complex one on top, the aim of edubuntu-menus was to make simply use of what the distro already offers
<ogra> with the advantage that somebody else maintains the core group system ... while in sabayon everything needs to be duplicated (indeed its purpose is wider as well)
<ogra> alkisg, thats exactly what edubuntu-menus does ;)
<ogra> it just couples the XDG_DATA_DIRS content with the group membership a student is in
<ogra> have a look at the package, its trivial ... only a few files
<asanchez> I doing right now
<alkisg> Good... nah, we (Greek teachers) don't need custom menus, they're fine as they are now :D
<ogra> well, its a common usecase
<asanchez> I've just add one new user called "matematicas" and I have added it to edubuntu-basic, edubuntu-math and edubuntu-office and when I login with "matematicas" user Evolution appears in two entries at the Applications menu
<asanchez> one of then at the root of Applications menu and another one under Office submenu of Applications
<asanchez> that's the right behaviour?
<ogra> the one at the root is likely a bug
<ogra> ask LaserJock, he did the selection
<asanchez> ok, I will
<ogra> might be that edubuntu-basic puts evo in the root on purpose
<ogra> i'm not sure
<ogra> you should be able to edit /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/groups/edubuntu-basic.menu though
<highvoltage> ogra: I don't think the guadalinex guys have much of a choice in what the menus should look like, they just have to make it happen to keep the people who make the choices happy
<asanchez> that's right!
<ogra> right, but the way its done atm is not appropriate for ubuntu
<ogra> dpkg-divert is never a good solution
<highvoltage> not arguing there :)
<ogra> gets you into maintenance hell
<ogra> the principle thats used in edubuntu-menus can be used for guadalinex as well ... you can as well move around apps to the edu menu with .menu files
<asanchez> we have to mantain like looks like nowadays because education community allways uses this organization
<ogra> right, but how many packages do you have to touch to make your setup happen ?
<asanchez> ogra, dpkg-divert is a nightmare, but we didn't have time and knowledge to make a new GuadalinexEdu version possible in 3 months
<ogra> compare that to the handfull of files you have to maintain to achieve the same with edubuntu-menus
<ogra> right
<asanchez> I think we maintain 54 packages with dpkg-divert
<alkisg> Wow, edubuntu-menus is a _really_ small package... very handy :)
<ogra> right, and you have to touch them each release
<ogra> and make sure the diversions dont break on upgrades etc
<asanchez> yes
<asanchez> we have to find a better solution
<ogra> while its a quick solution for the moment, its a lot more work if you look at it over time
<asanchez> I'm going to play with edubuntu-menus
<jbianquetti> asanchez: maybe we need to embrace edubuntu-menus... and eventually expand is funcionality
<ogra> would be great if someone would finhally finish edubuntu-menus :)
<asanchez> jbianquetti, i think so
<ogra> iirc we specced it at UDS paris, highvoltage might correct me though ...
<asanchez> now we have 6 months until next release
<asanchez> before next release
<ogra> sounds perfect :)
<asanchez> now that we use ubuntu as mother distribution we don't have to fight so hard with hardware support that consumes most of our time
<ogra> LaserJock is your man for more details on the package ... and there might be a bunch of specs for edubuntu-menus that were worked out but never implemented
<nubae> asanchez: u've not carried/looked at sugar till now right?
<ogra> they might give you some good ideas
<asanchez> ogra, are that specs at launchpad?
<ogra> yep
<jbianquetti> nubae: no. political decisions...
<nubae> yeah Laserjock did some more work on edubuntu-menus recently iirc
<asanchez> I'm going to look for them
<nubae> ok, well it will be interesting to look at sugar, its something that can be easily shown off and has some great benefits
<nubae> decision makers tend to like it ;-)
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, it was at uds-paris
<nubae> and its very localised for Spanish already, since Sud America is heavily involved
<ogra> asanchez, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-menus-completion
<asanchez> thanks
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<pmatulis> waht is the difference between 'apt-get install edubuntu-server^
<pmatulis> and 'apt-get install edubuntu-server' ?
<ogra> the first one is a task
<ogra> the second one is a metapackage
<ogra> have a look at tasksel
<pmatulis> ogra: i did
<LaserJock> any guadelinex people around?
<nubae> they get off at 15:00, an its now 16:30, so probably not
<LaserJock> I had a guy file a sync request on gcompris
<LaserJock> I was a little to-the-point in my reply but I forgot to thank him
<LaserJock> we really need some more people looking at bugs
<LaserJock> we're now at 280
<LaserJock> and with ~70 being LTSP
<LaserJock> that's still 200+ that are in apps
<derosa> LaserJock, It was me
<LaserJock> derosa: oh
<LaserJock> derosa: hi :-)
<LaserJock> derosa: thanks for the work
<derosa> No problem, I asked in #ubuntu-bugs what to do with it, as it seemed to be "forgoten". Someone suggested to request a merge, but I'm afraid I have a long way to go. I get lost with the procedures.
<derosa> Hi :)
<nubae> heh yeah, I was just saying to Laserjock its not entirely clear what the difference is between a merge and synch
<LaserJock> nubae: well, a sync is when we request a straight copy of the source package from Debian (usually Debian unstable)
<LaserJock> a merge is when we've got changes we've made that we need to keep, so we merge are changes into the newer Debian package and upload that
<LaserJock> *our change
<derosa> So, should I have requested a merge?
<nubae> ah ok, thanks for the clarification
<LaserJock> derosa: well, the Ubuntu changes need to be looked at, to see what can be dropped and what (if any) needs to stay
<LaserJock> in this case I'm pretty sure that we're going to need a merge
<LaserJock> it looks like Debian has included some of our changes, but not all
<derosa> I see
<LaserJock> we also have the added complication that a new build dependency was added by Debian that is not in Main
<nubae> heh super... so what happens in cases like that?
<ogra> you pull it to main or drop the dependency
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> I'm guessing we'll want to try to get it pulled in
<LaserJock> as I believe it is for an activity
<derosa> time to go home, bye
<bencrisford> LaserJock: How hard is it to get contributing developer rank?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: I don't think it takes a ton, certainly much less than MOTU
<LaserJock> bencrisford: how'd it go?
<ogra> become member -> attach patches to bugs -> apply for developer -> get approved
<ogra> :)
<ogra> LaserJock, did you hear that guadalinex is intrested in using edubuntu-menus ?
<LaserJock> ogra: I did
<ogra> :)
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Not great :P.  Could of been worse, I got +0s.  They said it was great what i was doing but they'd like to see a more sustained contribution in a particurlar area
<LaserJock> ogra: I can't imagine modifying all the .desktop files :/
<ogra> yeah, and they even use dpkg-divert
<bencrisford> a "come back in a three months" sort of thing
<LaserJock> bencrisford: ok, yeah. That's about what I was thinking. Not bad though
<bencrisford> Yeah, I guess
<LaserJock> bencrisford: 3 months? I think if you put your mind to it 1 month would probably do
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Really?  Oh
<bencrisford> well i knew i almost certainly wasnt gonna get it yesterday
<bencrisford> but i wouldnt know unless i tried
<LaserJock> yep
<bencrisford> and id rather go for it and fail
<bencrisford> than wonder the next day - "what if"
<bencrisford> :)
<LaserJock> the council is there to help you direct your efforts to where they're confident in giving you membership
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Did you see the poster I made last week yet?
<bencrisford> its not finished yet
<bencrisford> and it still looks very messy
<bencrisford> but im very pleased with the footer i came up with ^_^, wanna see?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bencrisford> evenin sbalneav
<LaserJock> bencrisford: sure
 * LaserJock notes that every Edubuntu package has at least 1 open bug
<bencrisford> LaserJock: I saw a couple without any :/
<bencrisford> anyway, ive hunted down my poster link on my blog -  http://bencrisford.exofire.net/poster-temp1.pdf
<sbalneav> LaserJock: I was looking through the bug list last night.
<bencrisford> and im working on a gcompris bug atm LaserJock
<LaserJock> bencrisford: the translations one?
<sbalneav> When I fix a bug, should I post to my ppa for texting?
<bencrisford> its really tricky yeah :'(
<sbalneav> testing?
<bencrisford> sbalneav: Upload it as a patch, or PPA
<bencrisford> i think
<LaserJock> sbalneav: if it's a trivial fix I wouldn't bother doing the PPA thing
<bencrisford> LaserJock: The gcompris bug is alot trickier than it sounds, whoever made the code needs to learn a bit about consistency, tidiness, and leaving comments
<LaserJock> sbalneav: most fixes should go into Karmic without too much concern, if they're SRUs we have -proposed for testing with
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it's only when you've got some serious work going on (sabayon comes to mind) that the PPA is really needed, IMO
<LaserJock> bencrisford: why is it trickier?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Well, the person who wrote the code seems to have a naming system, but it seems to not apply to the files i want :(
<LaserJock> bencrisford: what code?
<bencrisford> there is enough comments for a developer of the package, but not for a nooby hacker like me
<bencrisford> LaserJock: gcompris
<LaserJock> bencrisford: why are you messing with gcompris code?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Im not, im trying to fix the bug, trying to put a little message in to say to download the package thingy
<bencrisford> am i not doing it right? :(
<LaserJock> well, I wouldn't bother with that
<sbalneav> ok, I'm waitning to hear from sabayon upstream on a couple of issues, so I'll probably spend some time over the next couple of days looking at some of the bugs.  Any in particular that are a thorn in your side?
<LaserJock> bencrisford:  I would look at making the sound packages depend on the the relevant lang pack
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Thats a bit complicated to me.  Well it might not be, but i dont really understand what you mean, so i guess it is
<LaserJock> sbalneav: at this point I have no idea, general triage is needed I think
<LaserJock> bencrisford: well, if the  user installs gcompris-sound-es that's an indication that they want spanish, right?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: I guess...
<LaserJock> bencrisford: so then shouldn't we also install language-pack-gnome-base-es ?
<bencrisford> errr, but is that a gcompris bug?
<LaserJock> how is it not?
<bencrisford> well, thats about installing packages
<LaserJock> exactly
<bencrisford> and the package install is seperate from gcompris
<LaserJock> which is what *we* do
<bencrisford> which is the whole bug
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the bug is in the way we handle translations
<LaserJock> we extract out the translations and put them in language-pack-gnome-base-*
<LaserJock> so it's our job to make sure that they get installed at the right times
<LaserJock> in this case, it seems to me that we're lacking
<bencrisford> ok, im sort of with you
<bencrisford> but i cant say i fully understand :(,
<bencrisford> im not the brightest spanner in the toolbox, sorry
<LaserJock> well, the gcompris-sound-* packages are the translated sound files
<LaserJock> and language-pack-gnome-base-* have the translated text files
<bencrisford> yeah...
<LaserJock> so it would seem to make sense that they should be installed together, right?
<bencrisford> oooh!
<bencrisford> yeah, i get it
<bencrisford> but how would we tackle that, because the package install is seperate right?  but we gotta change that?
<sbalneav> Bug #348764 is probably one I can slay pretty easily.
<LaserJock> well, packages depend on each other
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 348764 in gpaint "gpaint crashed with SIGSEGV in g_hash_table_foreach()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/348764
<LaserJock> sbalneav: excellent
<sbalneav> And one that the kiddies will find disconcerting.
<LaserJock> bencrisford: *we* declare the relationships between packages
<LaserJock> bencrisford: so we just need to declare a new relationship to have gcompris-sound-* depend on language-pack-gnome-base-*
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Ok :)
<bencrisford> how do we declare
 * bencrisford apoligises again, for being such a dumb-ass :P
<LaserJock> bencrisford: using Depends: in debian/control
<bencrisford> ok, so this is in the package gcompris-sound?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> the gcompris source package has it all
<LaserJock> the 1 source package builds all the .debs
<bencrisford> oh! so this - to fix - would take no coding?  just packaging LaserJock?
<LaserJock> that is the point, yes
<LaserJock> most bugs are that way
<highvoltage> hi kids
<sbalneav> Hello highvoltage
<LaserJock> I've gone a long time without having to do any coding :-)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: Evenin'
<LaserJock> I don't think I've *ever* had to actually code a patch, I've integrated some, but I've never done it from scratch
<bencrisford> LaserJock: So I just have to add a depends to all the sound packages?
<bencrisford> and submit that as a patch to the bug?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: basically, yeah
<bencrisford> ok :D
<bencrisford> ty for all your help
<bencrisford> LaserJock: What will adding the depends actually "do" though?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: a dependency says, if you install this package you have to also install this other one
<bencrisford> oh, ok
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Am I gonna have to manually add each dependancy, or is there a command i can use?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: you'll want to manually add them. You should make sure that the corresponding lang pack actually exists
<bencrisford> ok, and also, wont this make gcompris a helluvalot bigger LaserJock?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> because it's just doing that when the user installs it
<bencrisford> ok
<LaserJock> the packages are all separate
<LaserJock> so we're just saying "when you install gcompris, these other packages need to also get installed"
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Ok :), thank you so much for all your help.  Just one last thing before I let you get on with your own life - http://pastebin.com/m7a2ecca1 - is that correct? as in, providing that package exists, it'll work
<LaserJock> yeah, that's the idea!
<bencrisford> :D yay
<bencrisford> ty again ;)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: Pingaling
<bencrisford> pygi: Pingaling
<pygi> bencrisford: yes?
<bencrisford> How's your packaging skills pygi? :D
<pygi> what ya need?
<highvoltage> bencrisford: Pongalong
<bencrisford> highvoltage: pygi: I have two helpers :D:D:D
<highvoltage> hi py
<highvoltage> heh
<bencrisford> Well i fixed an edubug in gcompris
<pygi> hi highvoltage
<bencrisford> but the diff has like the contents of every file with a + before it
<pygi> bencrisford: highvoltage knows his stuff, but him :)
<bencrisford> should it be that cluttered/large?
<bencrisford> i just changed the debian/control
<bencrisford> pygi: highvoltage: ?
<bencrisford> ill be back in 10 minutes or so, brb ;)
<sbalneav> bencrisford: how did you produce the diff?
<highvoltage> hi pygi!
<highvoltage> bencrisford: did you produce a debdiff? A debdiff would be small if you only added a dependency.
<bencrisford> highvoltage: Oh, should I have done a debdiff, i wasnt sure what to do
<bencrisford> and i added a dependancy to every sound package
<bencrisford> and there is *alot*
<highvoltage> heh
<bencrisford> i just did debuild -S
<bencrisford> it gave me a diff.gz
<bencrisford> with the .diff in it
<bencrisford> highvoltage: pygi: sbalneav: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27468154/gcompris_8.4.4-1.1ubuntu5.diff.gz there's my .diff
<bencrisford> does it look right?
<pygi> probably
<pygi> diff.gz is a difference from the upstream tarball
<bencrisford> oh
<bencrisford> but did i do it right?  will it need to be changed?
<pygi> its probably right
<bencrisford> ok, ty :)
<bencrisford> !info gcompris
<ubottu> gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 457 kB, installed size 1568 kB
<bencrisford> !info dosemu
<ubottu> dosemu (source: dosemu): The Linux DOS Emulator. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.4.0+svn.1828-2ubuntu2 (jaunty), package size 2272 kB, installed size 5712 kB (Only available for i386 amd64)
<asanchez> We include both gcompris and dosemu in GuadalinexEdu :D
<asanchez> we've just fix one bug about gcompris: https://bugs.launchpad.net/guadalinexedu/+source/gcompris/+bug/371603
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 371603 in gcompris "Administration not available" [Medium,Confirmed]
<asanchez> what's the right way to include this patch in jaunty-updates?
<sbalneav> asanchez: Dosemu for old dos games, I assume?  Does dosemu still "busy wait" and lockup the cpu at 100% when it's not doing anything?  Or did they fix that?  I used to use dosemu for running Wordperfect 5.1 years ago :)
<asanchez> sbalneav, i don't remember for what we use dosemu
<asanchez> I only remember that it was a request from one of our ICT Schools
<asanchez> could be to run some old school management tool
<alkisg> sbalneav: dosbox doesn't use 100% cpu when idle
<sbalneav> alkisg: ah, nice.
 * alkisg thinks that after several days of fighting with the Debian policy/packaging tools, bzr and launchpad, he's now almost ready to actually starting coding! :D
<alkisg> Damn learning curves...
<sbalneav> I know.
<sbalneav> For me, the coding's the EASY part
<sbalneav> it's all the fr*gg*ng rules and regulations of the workflow that takes so long to learn :)
<alkisg> Yeah, I wrote a couple of hundend lines of shell scripts in an afternoon, and it took me 3-4 days to learn how to correctly use my team's ppa to upload it there...
<sbalneav> Amen, brother.
<nubae> yeah, the tools are often the crutch... shouldn't be that way
<nubae> thats why I like oBS... but this won't be yet another plug for opensuse :-)
<sbalneav> I'm sure one day, it'll all make perfect sense.  But right now, it's like being chained to a deal hippopotomos.  I know where I want to go, but getting there is hard work, smelly, and ugly bits keep falling off. :)
<asanchez> those evil processes are important too
<asanchez> without them packaging, sharing code and so on will be a caos
<nubae> sbalneav: and it tends to want to bite you in the ass along the journey ;-)
<nubae> asanchez: yep, it is about distribution in the end... but it can still be made much simpler
<nubae> doesnt have to be like a hippo, could be more like a rhino... secure, polished... fierce
<alkisg> To avoid keeping the ChangeLog twice, once in ChangeLog and once with every bzr commit, I used: `bzr log > ChangeLog` in a script before invoking bzr builddeb, is that ok?
<alkisg> (I'm _not_ talking about the debian/changelog one )
<sbalneav> asanchez: Oh, sure.  Not disagreeing.  It's just a huge learning curve for us old farts who are used to "tar xzvf ..; ./configure && make && make install" :)
<nubae> to be honest, the rpm way is slighty easier and faster...
<asanchez> sbalneav, the last package I made I use "ar -x"
<nubae> the same thing in the end... but u can do much more work packaging rpms
<sbalneav> asanchez: lol
<sbalneav> hardcore
<nubae> what is ar?
<asanchez> it's a tool to extract package content
<nubae> ah ok
<nubae> first time I hear of it...
<nubae> learn something new every day :-)
<asanchez> I make my last package 5 years ago :(
<asanchez> I'm becoming totally useless (i don't know how to say "inutil" in english) :D
<sbalneav> As in: inutil ldapadd, you can add entried to your ldap database? :)
<asanchez> hehehe
<nubae> inutil = useless
<nubae> its correct
<nubae> I made my last package about 20 minutes ago :p
<nubae> once u get into the flow they tend to pop out like hot cakes
<asanchez> There is powerful tools today for building packages
<sbalneav> Mmmm hot cakes
<highvoltage> aparently they sell good
<sbalneav> So I've heard, but around here, the only thing the street vendors sell are hotdogs
<sbalneav> so I can't speak from personal experience
<nubae> here its just kebabs... on every street corner
<nubae> like an infestation
<highvoltage> sounds like a nice infestation :)
<sbalneav> Better that than mice
<sbalneav> Or elephants
<sbalneav> Imagine if your house was infested with elephants.
<asanchez> nubae, Austria is wonderful!
<nubae> mmmm, elephants....
<nubae> :p
<nubae> elephant hotdogs and kebabs
<sbalneav> meh, probably be stringy
<nubae> giraffe.. now I bet that's stringy :p
<bencrisford1> night everyone
#edubuntu 2009-06-04
<IHS_intern> interested in LTSP, and I have a DHCP server I can't take down(county owns it, not us.) And we have 100mbit ethernet at best, so small labs are best anyways... any way I can setup LTSP and use one NIC to connect to the outside world, and the rest of the lab to use a second NIC?
<sbalneav> IHS_intern: Yes
<sbalneav> In fact, this is the preferred way.
<IHS_intern> What would you say the lowest-end hardware that will run LTSP-booting ubuntu well?
<IHS_intern> Not as the server, but as the client. We have some old Pentium MMXs in the back room....
<sbalneav> How much ram?
<IHS_intern> 32-128. 64 is common and an easy upgrade, 128 is easy to upgrade to. Able to get ~50 machines to 256.
<sbalneav> if you can do 128 megs or better, you should be fine.
<bencrisford> highvoltage: What is the process for becoming an ubuntu dev?
<bencrisford> edubuntu dev*
<bencrisford> I messed that up, ill try again
<bencrisford> highvoltage: What is the process for becoming an edubuntu dev?
<bencrisford> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> you need to be an edubuntu member then justify that you have a good enough understanding of packaging to get the developer status
<bencrisford> oh :/
<bencrisford> stgraber: I didn't know sbalneav was an edubuntu member :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: looking for me?
<bencrisford> LaserJock: I fixed that bug after all yesterday
<bencrisford> I uploaded it as a patch, not sure if it my diff is right though
<LaserJock> what bug #?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep, I'm just about to go to sleep though (pretty much exhausted)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: sorry, was/am slammed trying to get a new chapter revision to my advisor
<bencrisford> LaserJock: bug 306876
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 306876 in gcompris "Translations not installed with gcompris by default." [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/306876
<highvoltage> LaserJock: no problem, will talk to you tomorrow
<LaserJock> bencrisford: you actually want to do a debdiff
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Ah
<LaserJock> bencrisford: so do debdiff gcompris_8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4.dsc gcompris_8.4.4-1.1ubuntu5.dsc > gcompris_8.4.4-1.1ubuntu5.debdiff
<LaserJock> and upload that debdiff
<LaserJock> highvoltage: we're doing EC tomorrow?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: when you have something for me to do assign or at least subscribe me to the bug
<bencrisford> LaserJock: I already subscribed the main sponsors
<bencrisford> unles you wanna do it all?
<bencrisford> because gcompris is in main i think
<bencrisford> !info gcompris
<ubottu> gcompris (source: gcompris): Educational games for small children. In component main, is optional. Version 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4 (jaunty), package size 457 kB, installed size 1568 kB
<LaserJock> well, the Main Sponsors tend to be a bit slow and there's more going on with the package
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> I'm unlikely to actually upload your debdiff straight
<LaserJock> we need to merge the new version of gcompris in
<LaserJock> and I'd probably apply your fix at that point
<LaserJock> bencrisford: anyway, I'm just pointing out that if you'd like me to sponsor something the best way is to assign or subscribe me
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Yeah, I guess :)
<LaserJock> I gotta run now, see y'all tomorrow
<bencrisford> LaserJock: How hard is it for one to become an edubuntu developer?
<LaserJock> shouldn't be horrible
<bencrisford> ok :)
<LaserJock> I'm setting the technical requirements to be less than MOTU
<bencrisford> ill keep fixing bugs ;)
<LaserJock> basically something like Contributing Developer with an interest in Edubuntu
<bencrisford> i was enquiring about ubuntu universe-contributor
<bencrisford> apparently its like 2-3 months visible contribution
<LaserJock> *however*, that definitely shouldn't turn you away from contributing to Edubuntu packaging
<bencrisford> what shouldnt?
<LaserJock> the ~edubuntu-dev team is for granting write permissions, not an exclusive club of the only people who can work on Edubuntu packages
<bencrisford> i know :)
<LaserJock> if you've got a fix or bzr branch we'll have a look
<bencrisford> yeah :), ok
<LaserJock> but since it's all gotta go through a MOTU/Core Dev anyway it's really not much of a barrier
<LaserJock> I don't mind doing a quick check and uploading for people
<bencrisford> ok :)
<LaserJock> especially so that they can get some uploads under their belt for getting Contributing Developer ;-)
<bencrisford> :)
<LaserJock> anyway, gotta run
<pygi> hi asanchez
<asanchez> hi pygi
<bencrisford> Hey asanchez, pygi
<asanchez> pygi, we have discussed today at work about "google summer of code" clon for schools
<nubae> hola asanchez
<asanchez> hola nubae
<pygi> asanchez: what did you conclude?
<nubae> k tal por alli, empieza hacer calor?
<asanchez> we are thinking about "software libre public contest"
<asanchez> nubae, it's so hot here, it's making me less productive
<asanchez> it's impossible to do nothing until 8pm
<nubae> yeah, more air conditioning needed ;-)
<asanchez> i only have air conditioned in computers room at home :D
<nubae> heh
<pygi> asanchez: interesting, can I know more? And can it map in my initiative?
<asanchez> pygi, here in Andalusia we have one specific formation level about Applications Desing and Coding and another about System Administration
<asanchez> sorry, phone
<asanchez> pygi, are you thinking about a global initiative, isn't it?
<pygi> asanchez:possibly, yes
<asanchez> We are thinking about propose some little *free software* projects that people that are finish their formation could use as final project
<asanchez> other people will have mentor role (could be teacher or anybody interested)
<pygi> asanchez: that's cool
<asanchez> pygi, we have to sell the idea to our politician boss
<pygi> :p
#edubuntu 2009-06-05
<Ahmuck> hrm, wonder where i'm logged on elsewhere from
<LaserJock> ok .. I filed a MIR for gnet
<LaserJock> hopefully that will go through without any problems
<Nubae> gnet?
<Nubae> whats gnet?
<Nubae> btw, did u know chrome is available for Linux?
<LaserJock> yes
<Nubae> still pre-alpha but man its ast
<LaserJock> I've been running chromium for a while
<Nubae> fast
<LaserJock> like a week or so
<LaserJock> yes, it's very nice
<LaserJock> and so far for me it's pretty stable
<LaserJock> !info gnet
<ubottu> Package gnet does not exist in jaunty
<LaserJock> !info libgnet2.0-0
<ubottu> libgnet2.0-0 (source: gnet): GNet network library. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.8-1 (jaunty), package size 67 kB, installed size 200 kB
<Nubae> yeah I had link a couple libraries on openSUSE, and now its running quite nicely
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ooh, didn't notice you were here. hi!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hola
<highvoltage> hola LaserJocko
<bencrisford> Hello everyone :).  highvoltage ;), LaserJock ;)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: did you add more to the strategy doc, it looks like there's some more things under development, but I'm not sure if it's my imagination
<highvoltage> howdy bencrisford
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I haven't done anything yet
<highvoltage> Reminder: Edubuntu & EC meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in roughly 30 minutes
<alkisg> thanks highvoltage
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: around?
<stgraber> yup
<stgraber> let's move to #ubuntu-meeting
<highvoltage> yep
<LaserJock> bah, where the heck is nubae?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ok, meeting is on the calendar
<highvoltage> thanks LaserJock
<LaserJock> ok, so now what do I have to do again? :/
<highvoltage> well, if it's any concelation... "not everything" :)
<highvoltage> where do I access the mootbot logs?
<highvoltage> I guess someone needs to post minutes of the meeting to the list
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I'm doin that now...
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> im just locating the mootbot logs
<bencrisford> cant find the right ones
<highvoltage> bencrisford: thanks
<LaserJock> ok guys
<LaserJock> I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/9.10/Tasks and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/10.04/Tasks
<LaserJock> and put the categories we decided on
<LaserJock> so let's fill'em up
<stgraber> ok, looks like i need to go through the MC first for coredev so will need some testimonials soon I guess ;)
<LaserJock> I can't certainly do that
<bencrisford> stgraber: Hehe, i'll give you a testimonial if mine is worth anything
<bencrisford> you're always around willing to help me with all sorts :)
<bencrisford> which is true for all of you
<bencrisford> :)
<nubae> I take it code development is like sbalneav fixing up sabayon... that kind of thing?
<LaserJock> sorta
<LaserJock> we've got things that we need to upstream
<LaserJock> the edubuntu-menus for instance
<LaserJock> perhaps an installer app or a user admin app
<nubae> ok yeah, so new upstream projects worked on by edubuntu peepz
<LaserJock> and general code work like sabayon
<nubae> LaserJock: btw... I suggest u take a look at http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/iso/openSUSE-Sugar-live-unstable.i686-0.0.6-Build4.1.iso
<LaserJock> the non-packaging stuff
<nubae> and run it in a vm
<LaserJock> nubae: k
<nubae> so u get an idea of where sugar is on opensuse... pretty much everything works, and its been customised somewhat for opensuse
<nubae> I'd imagine we want something similar for edubuntu, take a look and let me know
<nubae> we took the approach of taking all the maintained working activities and enabling them by default so users have a lot to choose from and see the sense behind using Sugar in the classroom
<LaserJock> make sense
<nubae> so u'll see that makes about 50+ activities
<nubae> anyway, download, have a look and let me know what u think, and how we should move forwards in edubuntu
<highvoltage> nubae!
<nubae> highvoltage! :-)
<bencrisford> i have the minutes ready i think, it took me a while because we didnt keep to the agenda very well, and the action items - in some cases - were the same as the agenda item :P
<LaserJock> bencrisford: yeah, I figured that out part way through :-)
<LaserJock> bencrisford: got a pastebin of it?
<bencrisford> of..?  my minutes?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: yeah
<bencrisford> LaserJock: i put some formatting in to make it readable, but its in html
<bencrisford> ill make it in the wiki format and pastebin it if you want
<LaserJock> bencrisford: also give me the html version if you don't mind, I can blog it
<bencrisford> gmail doesnt give it to me :'(, but i can reproduce it i guess
<bencrisford> in fact
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Could I not just email it to you first?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> go for it
<bencrisford> LaserJock: laserjock@ubuntu.com?
<LaserJock> yep
<bencrisford> ok :)
<bencrisford> sent LaserJock
<bencrisford> ill be back in 20 minutes
<LaserJock> bencrisford: we should probably clean up the minutes a little, let me send you a version
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Sure :)
<bencrisford> im gonna fix some bugs :)
<bencrisford> brb
<bencrisford> !info pessulus
<ubottu> pessulus (source: pessulus): lockdown editor for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 2.26.0-0ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 39 kB, installed size 1200 kB
<bencrisford> LaserJock: What do you make of bug 379617?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 379617 in pessulus "Missing dependency for Pessulus" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/379617
<bencrisford> shall i add the dependancy as suggested?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: looking
<bencrisford> =)
<LaserJock> bencrisford: you confirmed that it happens?
<bencrisford> im pretty sure
<bencrisford> not 100%, maybe i shouldnt of confirmed it...
<LaserJock> well, did you remove python-gnome2-desktop and try to run pessulus
<bencrisford> ah
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Sure, pessulus didnt work without the package
<bencrisford> same error
<bencrisford> without the python package i mean
<LaserJock> ok, sounds good to me
<bencrisford> LaserJock: Im stuck on where to ass the dependancy
<bencrisford> there is a couple of build-depends
<bencrisford> and a depends
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so it needs to be a Depends
<LaserJock> because it's a run-time dependency and not a build-time dependency
<bencrisford> ah ok LaserJock :)
<bencrisford> ty
<bencrisford> LaserJock: At the moment the depends bit has entries with what i think is the version number to the side like this:
<bencrisford>          python-gtk2 (>= 2.6.0),
<bencrisford> do I need to put that for python-gnome2-desktop?
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta run
<LaserJock> ah, probably not
<bencrisford> ok
<bencrisford> :)
<LaserJock> the versioning is if you know that it won't work with particular versions
<bencrisford> oh, ok :)
<LaserJock> so python-gtk2 (>= 2.6.0) means you *have* to have a version equal to or greater than 2.6.0 of python-gtk2
<bencrisford> ok, i get it
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> thanks
<LaserJock> I'm gonna run
<LaserJock> but make sure to subscribe me to bugs you're working on and I'll have a look
<bencrisford> ok, sure
<bencrisford> by the way, do i create a debdiff or a diff for this package?
<bencrisford> i never know :'(
<LaserJock> debdiff
<bencrisford> ok, thanks :D
<LaserJock> pretty much always do a debdiff unless it's a new upstream version
<LaserJock> like going from 2.12.3 to 2.12.4 or something
<bencrisford> ok
<bencrisford> so it will be blah_0ubuntu2.debdiff?
<bencrisford> in fact, dont worry ill consult my gcompris one :)
<bencrisford> i should stop relying on others
<LaserJock> sure ...0ubuntu2.debdiff would be fine
<bencrisford1> >: I swear im gonna kill this blasted computer
<bencrisford1> stgraber: Im fixing a bug in pessulus, when i do a debdiff
<bencrisford1> the only changes it finds
<bencrisford1> is the changelog!
<bencrisford1> none of the important stuff!!! >:|
<bencrisford1> help :'(
#edubuntu 2009-06-06
<bencrisford> stgraber: ping
<bencrisford> stgraber: Pingaling
<stgraber> bencrisford: sort of there
<bencrisford> my bug fix went a bit wrong stgraber :(
<bencrisford> i changed added a dependency to fix a bug, then did dch -i and updated the changelog and then debuild -S
<bencrisford> when i did my debdiff
<bencrisford> all that appeared in there
<bencrisford> was the changes to the changelog :'(
<bencrisford> and ive tried and tried and tried
<bencrisford> was up late last night fiddling around
<bencrisford> and early this morning
<stgraber> hmm, that's weird.
<stgraber> so you:
<stgraber>  - changed debian/control
<stgraber>  - dch -i
<stgraber>  - debuild -S -sa
<stgraber>  - debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<stgraber> ?
<bencrisford> -sa ?  nope
<bencrisford> but i did the rest yeah
 * LaserJock thinks he stepped into a debuild question
<stgraber> you did :)
<bencrisford> yeah
<bencrisford> just after you went last night, my debdiff got totally screwed up
<bencrisford> when i change the control file
<bencrisford> all i get in my debdiff
<bencrisford> is the changelog entry
<bencrisford> :(
<bencrisford> no matter what i do it seems
<bencrisford> i was up late last night, and early this morning fiddling around
<LaserJock> did you figure it out?
<bencrisford> nope
<LaserJock> my guess would be that you accidentally overwrote your original source package
<LaserJock> so what you think is the pure Ubuntu package actually includes your control file changes
<LaserJock> and so when you debdiff it, it doesn't see any difference there
<bencrisford> ohhh crapppp
<bencrisford> i might be able to fix this :/
<LaserJock> just re-download the current Ubuntu source package and re-diff
<bencrisford> i have done
<bencrisford> seeeveral times
<LaserJock> ok, so what steps do you do?
<bencrisford> apt-get source pessulus
<bencrisford> vi debian/control
<bencrisford> dch -i
<bencrisford> debuild -S
<bencrisford> cd ..
<bencrisford> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > new.debdiff
<LaserJock> well, that should do it
<bencrisford> it doesnt =(
<bencrisford> ill try again though
<LaserJock> you might verify that your changes were actually saved in debian/control
<LaserJock> there's got to be some simple thing
<bencrisford> I did a few times :)
<bencrisford> still dont work :(
<LaserJock> bencrisford: what is the dependency you're adding?
<LaserJock> bencrisford: I think I found your problem
<LaserJock> :-)
<nubae> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi nubae
<nubae> did u get a chance to see Sugar?
<LaserJock> not yet, no
<LaserJock> I need to find some time to download it
<nubae> ah... u should give it a spin... its really looking very nice now... its pushed the debian folks to get their ass in gear and get 0.84 working
<LaserJock> bencrisford: couple things. 1) make sure you get the karmic source package, not the jaunty one and 2) you actually need to edit debian/control.in because that is used to automatically build the debian/control file when you run debuild -S
<nubae> unfortunately, the ubuntu folks are just waiting to take what debian does, and aren't doing anything on their own initiative... I get the feeling the debian packager is resentful because of that
<LaserJock> what Ubuntu folks?
<nubae> heh, well those signed up as sugar team
<LaserJock> bencrisford: so your debian/control file was getting overwritten each time you ran debuild -S
<nubae> of which morgs was really the only one doing any work...
<LaserJock> nubae: right
<nubae> sounds familiar
<nubae> ;-)
<LaserJock> and he's not around anymore
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> so basically there are no Ubuntu folks
<LaserJock> ergo they aren't waiting ;-)
<nubae> well, I offered Jonas (debian packager) whatever help he needs
<nubae> well, there are a bunch of folks claiming to be the ubuntu sugar team
<nubae> and they are 'waiting to see what happens with debian'
<nubae> ;-)
<LaserJock> are you sure?
<LaserJock> did they send an email somewhere?
<nubae> in Sugar, lfaraone claims he, Sacha Silbe, and 3 others are the ubuntu sugar team
<nubae> #sugar that would be
<nubae> and that they made a decision to wait and see what happens with debian
<nubae> I have a feeling this is because they simply have no idea what else todo
<nubae> anyway, please do take a look at the suse offering so I can get going on working on the ubuntu side
<LaserJock> why do I have to look at it?
<nubae> cause u are edubuntu council and u make decisions on what goes in and what doesnt?
<LaserJock> I'm certainly interested in what you've done, but I don't know why that'd block Ubuntu
<nubae> I'm sure I can come up with other reasons...
<LaserJock> well, is Debian getting back on track?
<nubae> basically so u can discuss with me how we move forward with putting it into ubuntu
<nubae> they are... like I said, I'd work with Jonas
<nubae> but how its presented is an ubuntu thing
<LaserJock> ok, well bottom line is if Debian get's things in order we mostly get things for free
<LaserJock> ah
<nubae> ie... how many/which activities to show, how to categorise
<nubae> how to include in the cd/dvd
<LaserJock> I think we might consider having an edubuntu-sugar metapackage
<nubae> do we make a just sugar ubuntu cd/usb stick=
<nubae> ?
<nubae> yeah that goes without saying...
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I can imagine having an official unofficial Sugar-on-a-Stick image
<LaserJock> we're not going to have enough official hosting for it
<LaserJock> we're going to be lucky if we get the DVD
<nubae> yeah since the other distros do it, e/dubuntu kind has to too
<nubae> it has a big advantage there
<nubae> and that is that it can carry binary drivers
<LaserJock> other distros as in? Fedora and openSUSE?
<nubae> where Fedora and openSUSE cannot
<nubae> I'm thinking about net connectivity here
<nubae> its quite a pain on both Fedora and openSUSE...
<LaserJock> ah, because Ubuntu has pretty good network/wifi hardware support?
<nubae> yep
<nubae> so that is a very big advantage, that might even tip the balance as to which SoaS is used
<LaserJock> well, I would think as  long as we can find some hosting for it
<LaserJock> and we say that we don't explicitly support the image itself
<nubae> right now people are doing crazy stuff like virtualising Sugar on an ubuntu image
<LaserJock> it would be really fairly easy for us to do
<nubae> virtualising fedora on ubuntu to get networking working...
<nubae> pretty crazy
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure we have resources to have it as an official, fully supported offering, if that makes sense
<LaserJock> yucky
<nubae> yeah yucky but there is no other way.... this is where the entire policy crap shoots us linux users in the foot
<LaserJock> so the things we'd want would be:
<LaserJock> 1) metapackage that puts everything together
<LaserJock> 2) image building script
<nubae> and metapackages that seperate by subject perhaps
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> as in the next version of sugar, u can launch individual activities straight through gnome
<LaserJock> Sugar on a Stick is a live version isn't it?
<LaserJock> wouldn't we just want everything installed?
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> thats the question
<LaserJock> what's the reason not to?
<nubae> sugar 'policy' (I hate that term now) says users should only have the core activities
<LaserJock> ah, I see
<nubae> and that all the rest should be downloaded from activities.sugarlabs.org
<nubae> I disagree completely
<nubae> which is why I packaged all the activities
<LaserJock> so in showing off Sugar we want to make sure to show off the official Sugar packages
<nubae> I would say no... I would say we show off the best possible sugar
<nubae> its up to us what we package
<nubae> but thats why I want u to look at suse sugar
<nubae> so u get an idea of what is packagable
<LaserJock> but in the case of Sugar-on-a-Stick it's a demo'ing thing so you really want to show off the full capabilities
<nubae> and from that we can choose what to do
<nubae> yeah indeed, I think so too
<nubae> but the sugar 'policy' is not that
<LaserJock> well, we can do whatever we want
<LaserJock> the sticking point would be if we wanted our image to be like officially blessed or something
<nubae> by whom?
<LaserJock> Sugar Labs or something
<nubae> bah, they'd bless it regardless
<LaserJock> ok, well then I don't see much of a problem
<nubae> at least they did with opensuse, where that offering is currently considered to be the best ;-)
<LaserJock> it's kinda like Ubuntu shipping Firefox extensions
<nubae> or binary drivers
<LaserJock> except more so in this case I think
<LaserJock> as for sure for a image the usefulness of the image is in having everything there out of the box
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> actually activities.sugarlabs.org is based on mozilla extensions api
<LaserJock> I need to run
<nubae> yep
<nubae> ok.. well take a look when u get a chance
<LaserJock> but I think if you maybe could put together a "this is what needs to be done in order to produce a USB image" and send it to the list it'd help get the ball rolling
<bencrisford> LaserJock: you're a ruddy genius!!!  it worked!!!
<bencrisford> you should do like a phd or something ;P
<nubae> a phd in package management... heh that would actually be quite an interesting position, with some possible job opportuntiies at the end of the line
<compusec> does someone know how to fix the WIRELESS WEAK SIGNAL PROBLEM on ubuntu 9.04
<compusec> ?
<compusec> no
<asanchez> compusec, do you mean Ralink problem?
<compusec> i got
<compusec> a problem with any wireless connection on any laptop that i install ubuntu 9.04
<compusec> i have read that there are a lot of people with this problem, but i haven't found a solution yet
<asanchez> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/293946
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293946 in linux "realtek rtl8187 weak signal, occasional slow performance" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<asanchez> a
<compusec> yeah, alrealdy readed that, no help at all
#edubuntu 2009-06-07
<stgraber> LaserJock: ping
<stgraber> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stgraber/CoreDeveloperApplication I'd appreciate if you could leave a note there when you've a sec
<stgraber> ogra: ^ you too (when you're awake of course ;))
<stgraber> highvoltage: you may also add a comment if you want (there's a section for non-sponsor comments)
<LaserJock> stgraber: will do
<stgraber> LaserJock: thanks
<Zanderfly> is this the spot for buntu noobs?  need some help
<Zanderfly> or better yet......is anybody out here?
<Zanderfly> hello?
<Zanderfly> Is there life out there?!
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Zanderfly> FUCK!
<Zanderfly> WHERE CAN I GET SOME GODDAM HELP ON THIS CRAPPY OS!?!?
<LaserJock> Zanderfly: for Edubuntu?
<LaserJock> Zanderfly: for general Ubuntu support #ubuntu would be the place to head
<Zanderfly> i just got out of there and nobody answers
<LaserJock> it could be a slow time of the week
<LaserJock> and day
<Zanderfly> it says on tech support to come here for "Support"  lol....thats a joke
<Svenstaro> Don't go around insulting stuff and people.
<Svenstaro> You realize that it isn't obligatory for us to help? Be nice already.
<LaserJock> Zanderfly: well, we're all volunteers and try our best but some times of the day/week are not great for getting a response
<Svenstaro> Zanderfly, what is your problem anyway?
<LaserJock> for instance,  most European and American people are probably asleep
<Zanderfly> cannot get wine to install a game.  Sid Mier's Pirates.  Says it is approved by wine, but whenever i install (wether it be by terminal or disk), it freezes
<Svenstaro> #edubuntu is certainly not the place for that. Try the wine app db.
<LaserJock> yeah, it's certainly difficult for us to support a Windows app for various reasons, the Wine people would be your best shot
<Svenstaro> I'm probably feeding a troll anyway. Well, you got me to answer you so you are successful. Congratulations and ignored.
<Zanderfly> where can i get to these "wine ppl"?
<LaserJock> Zanderfly: http://www.winehq.org/
<Zanderfly> is there an icq room for it?
<Zanderfly> one where ppl respond to questions :)
<LaserJock> I honestly have no idea
<LaserJock> I've never used Wine
<LaserJock> but they have a Help section on their website
<Zanderfly> Ubuntu's own site advises this place for questions or tech support.......
<Zanderfly> god this suks
<Zanderfly> welp...thanks for the help
<LaserJock> Zanderfly: it doesn't advise this channel specifically for that kind of support
<LaserJock> you're getting a heck of a lot more support than trying to call up Microsoft to learn how to install a Linux app :-)
<Zanderfly> hahaha!  yea
<highvoltage> dodgy connections isn't good for bzr+ssl :/
<bencrisford> :/
<bencrisford> mornin highvoltage
<highvoltage> morning bencrisford
<highvoltage> bencrisford: where do you live, btw?
<bencrisford> SE England highvoltage
<bencrisford> according to my world clock...
<bencrisford> its 11:56 in south africa?
<highvoltage> aah, for some reason I thought you were in the US
<highvoltage> yep, it is indeed
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> same as amsterdam then
<highvoltage> yep
<bencrisford> i have the weirdest locations on my world clock
<bencrisford> amsterdam, winnipeg
<highvoltage> heh. I have the places I've been before in my world clock, but that's mostly in the same timezone +/- 1hour
<highvoltage> I should go further west or east some time :)
<bencrisford> Hmm, we should make an edubuntu program to automatically write essays
<bencrisford> i have two due tommorrow
<bencrisford> havent started
<highvoltage> heh, I think someone has written something like that before
 * bencrisford want it =O =P
<highvoltage> there's software that can werite an entire dissertation that looks more or less valid
<bencrisford> wow
<highvoltage> someone actually used that and submitted their paper and it got approved, and then they exposed the truth behind it and wrote their real dissertation on auto-generated dissertations :)
 * highvoltage tries to find the wbelink
<bencrisford> haha
<bencrisford> atm im writing a script to administrate my ninjas
<bencrisford> but its takin ages
<highvoltage> heh
<bencrisford> by ninjas i mean the security thingy
<highvoltage> I can't find it but I'll get it for you tomorrow at work
<bencrisford> ok, lol :)
<bencrisford> have you seen this ninja thing highvoltage?
<highvoltage> nope
<bencrisford> http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux/how-to-ninja/
<bencrisford> saw it on bodhi's blog
<bencrisford> well, originally on planet
<highvoltage> bencrisford: that looks quite cool. like a sudo++
<bencrisford> yeah]
<bencrisford> :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: are you around?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I see the ltsp-cluster-accountmanager still has the "* blah" in from when you showed me around. should I take it out? and should the version be 2.0.1-0ubuntu2 ?
<bencrisford> highvoltage: It'll be like 6am for stgraber
<bencrisford> or earlier
<highvoltage> yeah I guess I should wait another few hours :)
<bencrisford> :P probs
<bencrisford> you should try being on the spux develoment team
<bencrisford> when they wake up, i go to bed
<bencrisford> not practical at all :P
<bencrisford> i should go to south africa some day highvoltage
<bencrisford> ive been to namibia
<bencrisford> but not south afirca
<highvoltage> bencrisford: you should! since I've been in england :)
<bencrisford> :P :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: Is there a way of doing an 's/hell/hello/g' so it just executes on one line of a file
<bencrisford> say there is a file:
<bencrisford> Hell
<bencrisford> Hell
<bencrisford> and you wanted only the first hell to be hello
<bencrisford> how would you do that?
<stgraber> highvoltage: heya
<stgraber> highvoltage: about the changelog, what you should do is completely wipe the changelog file and start with 2.0.0-0ubuntu1 as it'll be the first "official" release
<stgraber> it should be the same for all the other components
#edubuntu 2010-06-07
<joerg> hi
<joerg> will anybody be at linuxtag, berlin next weekend?
<highvoltage> joerg: I wish!
<joerg> canonical and the ubuntu germany team has organized a barbecue with free food :)
<ogra> ah, again ?
<ogra> joerg, which day ?
<joerg> ogra, on the last day
<ogra> ah, i might be on my way back then already
<joerg> back to where?
<ogra> kassel
<joerg> that's not too far :P
<ogra> i didnt say its far :)
<alkisg> !info tuxpaint-data maverick
<ubottu> tuxpaint-data (source: tuxpaint): Data files for Tux Paint, a paint program for children. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:0.9.21-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 2683 kB, installed size 6552 kB
<alkisg> Urm ok, and how do I get its filelist for maverick? :D
<alkisg> highvoltage, stgraber: it looks like the translations were stripped from tuxpaint in lucid because of the main => universe transition
<alkisg> It might be a good opportunity to reupload it to the edubuntu stable ppa
<alkisg> Should I? What do you think?
<alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxpaint/+bug/572994
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 572994 in tuxpaint (Ubuntu) "Unable to change the language in Tuxpaint" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> alkisg: sounds like a good thing to do
<alkisg> highvoltage: should I mention it on the meeting and do it shortly afterwards?
<highvoltage> alkisg: you could, I suppose you could also send a notification via the list
<alkisg> Sure, I just think it'd be better if the notification was "...and the fixed package is already uploaded to the edubuntu ppa..."
<highvoltage> alkisg: ok
#edubuntu 2010-06-08
<plb> I've been tasked with setting up a number of public access machines. The machines need roaming home drives and controlled authentication. We are currently thinking 389 Directory Server and some sort of automounted home drives (we haven't worked out with our network people how yet). We really like the idea of using edubuntu and we wanted to know how people not using thin clients manage networks of edubuntu machines.
<alkisg> plb, uses vary. What are the network and client specs?
<plb> The network is a big sticky issue. It looks like a mixture of DSL and Cable Modems hooked up to a mixture of WiFi and 100mbit
<plb> The clients are beefy... AMD Athlon X2 with 2GB of RAM
<alkisg> I see. I tried managing just 12 non-thin-or-fat-client PCs and quickly got tired of clusterssh etc. Now I'm just using fat clients on good labs, thin clients otherwise.
 * alkisg tried this morning on a 12 fat client lab, the clients booted from network in 10 secs
<alkisg> Central authentication with ssh, nfs /home... I don't need anything else. I don't think I'll ever look back to standalone workstations
<plb> They are definitely fat clients the big issue is that the people creating accounts will be non-technical types. While this is not in a library system, the use case is very much like a library system.
<plb> Multiple sites with a local proctor. No server at sites. :-(
<plb> We are inheriting this project from another unit of the Uni I work for and they had been doing it with Standalone WinXP machines with a paper sign-in sheet to keep track of usage.
<plb> We want to do it right, but I'm afraid doing it right means a server per site.
<alkisg> The authentication server can be different from the disk server...
<alkisg> I.e. you could manage a fat chroot on each site, but have all user accounts in one place
<alkisg> You could even have local homes if that suits you better
<plb> We'd rather have network homes as we don't want to force a person in to using only a single machine
<alkisg> DSL won't suffice for that, though
<plb> Hrm... I know CIFS is too slow and NFS is probably a bad idea over the wild web. Do you think SSHFS would work though?
<alkisg> It works for most programs (e.g. evolution doesn't)
<alkisg> CIFS should be way faster than sshfs
<plb> Well that just makes the case for better on-site data or local servers
<plb> Any thoughts on the account creation issue. I.E. an easy way for non-technical people to create a LDAP account?
<alkisg> stgraber: what problems were you experiencing with nbd-client that made you develop nbd-proxy? Would they also affect nbd swap, where proxy is not used, and cause clients to hang because of that?
<alkisg> highvoltage: I tried reuploading tuxpaint to my ppa, and all the translations were properly contained in the tuxpaint-data package: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/proposed/+sourcepub/1167271/+listing-archive-extra
<alkisg> So we can just use "copy packages" to put it to the edubuntu ppa tomorrow after the meeting.
<zamini> hi every body
<zamini> I am new in linux
<zamini> i had a question if some one can help me
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<zamini> i want to install linux  as a dos base
<zamini> what i mean is only kernal and a shell thatset
<alkisg> You'd better ask this in #ubuntu, as this isn't edubuntu-specific. You most likely want to install the ubuntu-server cd.
<alkisg> But if it's for a lesson, you can just use the live cd...
<zamini> i just want to install a dos base linux in a computer no GUI or no more applications in it
<zamini> thank you for your support. i will find it from some where bye
<LedHed> I'm trying to remove the suspend and hibernation buttons in Lucid,  but the 'can_hibernate' and 'can_suspend' keys are missing from the gconf-editor.  Anyone know of another way to disable them?
#edubuntu 2010-06-09
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> alkisg: great!
<vmlintu> good afternoon
<rad4Christ> Good morning here :P
<vmlintu> highvoltage: have you encountered any nbd-proxy problems?
<highvoltage> vmlintu: hey, what happens?
<vmlintu> highvoltage: we've trying to figure out this problem with nbd-proxy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 589034 in LTSP "nbd-proxy hangs the nbd-connection to server" [Undecided,New]
<vmlintu> I'm just wondering how many are affected as it seems to be a problem with all our test systems..
<dgroos> Good Day!
<dgroos> I'd like to double check my UTC conversion abilities...
<dgroos> is the Edubuntu meeting in about 2:35 min from now?
<mhall119> is it wednesday again already?
<dgroos> YES! Yesterday (tuesday) was last student day of the year :), today is grading day, beyond, cleanup and improve...
<rad4Christ> Anyone know how to install nVidia restricted drivers on member:a server, so thin clients with nvidia card will use them?
<alkisg> dgroos: > Next Edubuntu meeting is on Wednesday, 9 June at 20:00 UTC.
<alkisg> $ LANG=C date -u
<alkisg> Wed Jun  9 15:27:12 UTC 2010
<alkisg> So... in 4.5 hours
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks for the command and I see that confirms the info from the TOP of this page: http://www.dxing.com/utcgmt.htm
<alkisg> You're welcome. We
<alkisg> We've finished teaching here some weeks ago, so I had much time to test fat clients and my "sch-scripts"... everything works great, teacher screen broadcasting is 10 times faster than italc (and much more reliable), client/user autodetection works fine, screen/sound locking... I just wish I had the time to internationalize all that :-/
<vmlintu> alkisg: "sch-scripts" sound interesting
<alkisg> http://wiki.ubuntu-gr.org/sch-scripts/screenshots
<alkisg> italc replacement + wizards for building thin + fat chroots + some other scripts for account management + policy enforment
<alkisg> It's working great for our needs, we don't need anything else. But it'd be really useful for others if some parts were generalized and internationalized.
<alkisg> E.g. the networking backend which keeps track of all users + ltsp clients...
<vmlintu> following what's happening on clients is something we want to keep out of, but broadcasting and locking would be needed
<alkisg> (it only needs 1 Mb on each thin client so the minimum requirements are still 64MB RAM, and it offers the teacher a local shell for remote command execution)
<alkisg> Well, to run commands on the clients you'd need to keep track of them. I didn't want to install ssh for security reasons (it's less secure than the current reverse connections that we're using)
<vmlintu> How are the commands run?
<alkisg> The teacher runs them from within the gui
<alkisg> Technically, each client connects to the server (and stays connected) and offers it a reverse shell
<vmlintu> there has been way too much bad publicity about schools using anything to follow what is happening on users' screens that I don't want to even think about installing something like that..
<alkisg> So the server has a root `/bin/sh` on each client and another one for each user
<alkisg> Right, it's too much tailored to what we need here. Now to install an LTSP fat lab + all edu apps here I just need about 20 mouse clicks. But that isn't suited for everybody.
<alkisg> So a developer would be needed to extract some parts of the code and generalize them.
<alkisg> WIth the same network backend another tool would be possible, one that doesn't allow arbitrary commands, but just administrative commands.
<vmlintu> starting commands on the clients could be also useful, I think
<vmlintu> Are the sources available somewhere?
<alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sch-devs/sch-scripts/trunk/changes
<vmlintu> What does the account management part do?
<alkisg> E.g. "select 10 users and add them to "class A" group",
<alkisg> or "export all users. then format the server and install a newer ubuntu version. then import the users while keeping the same uid/gid and their passwords etc"
<vmlintu> it uses /etc/passwd etc?
<alkisg> Or "select the users that belong to the classes a, b and c, in order to transfer some files to them
<alkisg> For reading it uses some getent functions so reading should also work with ldap. But for writing it uses useradd, so I don't think that would work with ldap.
<vmlintu> how does it transfer the files?
<alkisg> All files are on the server, so no transferring is necessary
<alkisg> Just a cp/chmod
<alkisg> *chown
<vmlintu> so it just copies them to the home directories of the users?
<alkisg> Yup.
<alkisg> E.g. when the teacher wants to copy an exersice to the students' documents, he can do it from that menu.
<vmlintu> Is there anything for the reverse? For the kids to turn their documents back to teacher
<alkisg> No, we didn't think it's necessary as the teacher already can see all the kids files. They're on the server, and the teacher has root access.
<vmlintu> oh, ok
<alkisg> (and even if he didn't, he'd still be able to see them but not modify them, at least with the default settings)
<vmlintu> so no english version yet?
<dgroos> (just got back to this--lots of teachers dropping by to bye :)
<alkisg> vmlintu: no. It's too tailored to greek needs to just translate it. It should be generalized first, and I'm starting my phd, so I won't have time for it for the next 2 years.
<dgroos> So first Congrats alkisg on finishing the year AND congrats are due on these "sch-scripts" -- they're sounding incredible.
<alkisg> Maybe 3-4 different packages could be extracted out of it.
<vmlintu> alkisg: ok.. I'll have a look at the concepts at least to see how it works
<dgroos> I'm also wondering how one would go about translating to English and I could help with Spanish as well.
<alkisg> Thanks dgroos... I do think it's a fine work that's why I'm mentioning it, maybe the code will be useful to others, even if I don't have time to generalize it myself now.
<alkisg> (btw, I tried on a fat client lab this morning, the clients booted in 13 seconds, openoffice started in 2 seconds, and I was able to broadcast a youtube video with 5 fps with x11vnc - italc can only broadcast about 1 fps)
<dgroos> So... is it the docs or the code or what that has to be translated?
<alkisg> The user interface (=.glade files mostly), but translating it will only make it usable for similar use cases
<alkisg> I.e. where the teacher has root access and sits on the server (which has a gui)
<alkisg> So to make it more widely usable, a programmer would be needed, not a translator....
<vmlintu> alkisg: are the environments there mostly single lab systems?
<alkisg> Yes, all of them
<alkisg> Even on schools with 3-4 labs, each lab are independed of the others
<vmlintu> sounds like total opposite from what we are running here..
<dgroos> "sits on the server" you mean they have the server in the classroom?
<alkisg> Yup
<vmlintu> are there any computers in regular classrooms?
<alkisg> Rarely, other than the computer lab, there is just one computer in one classroom in the whole school
<alkisg> (which e.g. gets connected to a projector to show multimedia stuff to kids)
<vmlintu> is this just one school or all the schools around there?
<alkisg> All of the schools here are like this.
<alkisg> We also have some kids that bring their own netbooks in the computer lab. Those can be used as fat clients by just pressing F12. sch-scripts work fine with them too.
<alkisg> (f12 => boot from network, that is)
<vmlintu> Did you ever see the blog post I made about some schools here? I wonder how different it is over there.. http://www.opinsys.fi/en/mista-on-hyvat-koulu-tehty
<dgroos> (Lots of interruptions on my side here, sorry...) What is the server, isn't it too loud?
<dgroos> Does the system have to have the server in the class?  What about the cluster approach that Asmo has set up that he shared a few hours ago?
<alkisg> dgroos: no, it's just a normal PC. It's cheaper to reuse the server as the teacher seat, and we don't even have computer rooms. All because of lack of money...
<alkisg> We don't need cluster as we only have about 12 clients per lab
<alkisg> vmlintu: my wife (she's a teacher too) visited finland a couple of years ago. She was impressed, nothing like the education level here.
<vmlintu> alkisg: what kind of network the schools have?
<dgroos> What would be adequate specs for a server serving 12 clients?  30 clients?   (running thin vs fat clients)?  Any sense?
<alkisg> All kinds (e.g. even 10 mbps ancient switches), but in order to use ltsp, we force them to upgrade to gigabit
<alkisg> dgroos: any modern pc or laptop would do. E.g. the last one I installed costed 400 â¬.
<vmlintu> alkisg: how many schools are using ltsp now?
<vmlintu> over there, I mean
<alkisg> I estimate about 50. But I hope it'll quickly grow to e.g. 200 or even 500, now that everything works with just a few clicks...
<dgroos> alkisg: (congrats on the making things so efficient for your country--national treasure status yet? ;)
<alkisg> Heh, I do work part time for the national support team...
<vmlintu> what does national support team do?
<vmlintu> (seems like I have a lot of questions today.. ;) )
<alkisg> Write guides mostly. It's the first time that we're writing software.
<dgroos> alkisg: are you saying that for using 30 fat clients I could run them, HAPPILY, with some basic dual core PC,  6 gigs ram, usual HD, gig NIC?
<alkisg> (it also does pilot programs - I got introduced to ltsp with one of those programs)
<alkisg> dgroos: more than happily.
<alkisg> 3 GB RAM would also suffice.
<vmlintu> who runs the team?
<dgroos> Why am I wasting electricity on a xeon quad core RAID etc?  I'm going to check into this.  I like minimal that works...
<alkisg> dgroos: my laptop is core 2 duo @ 2GHz, 4 Gb RAM, 250 GB disk (slow as the laptops usually have), and the clients boot in 13 seconds.
<alkisg> (I'm using it as a roaming server, to demo ltsp)
<alkisg> vmlintu: the ministry of education
<rad4Christ> Hey guys, I am running an LTSP5 test server, and Firefox/flash is running locally, however, the Firefox window itself looks horrible, like a Windows95 interface. The theme doesn't seem to be applied. any ideas?
<alkisg> dgroos: for fat clients, server CPU is totally useless. Hard disk, ram and network speed are all that matter.
<vmlintu> based on experiences running hardy fat clients I'd make sure that the server's hard drive is fast and reliable
<dgroos> Right--haven't tried it yet, but I hope that my P4, average 2.0 G Hz, 512 meg RAM will be able to succeed with fat clients--they worked just fine with local apps this year.
<dgroos> vmlintu: you used nubae's fat clients on hardy?
<vmlintu> dgroos: no.. we are using ldap+kerberos+nfs4 backend, so it's built on top of that
<alkisg> dgroos: 512 is a little low, it'll be slow. If you could upgrade the ram it'd be much better. Also if they have hard disks you could make a swap partition on them, it'd help.
<alkisg> xubuntu or lubuntu would work better for 512Mb, I guess, but I haven't tried it.
<alkisg> (gnome would also work of course - it'd just not be as fast)
<dgroos> Is your sense that 768--another 256 stick--might be enough for decent performance or I'd need to get it up to a gig, using gnome still?
<alkisg> I think 768 would be ok
<alkisg> (at least my daughter doesn't complain since I upgraded her ram to 768 :D)
<dgroos> These .glade files provide the text on gui pages?
<dgroos> alkisg: :)
<alkisg> Yeah, and they're edited from an editor with a gui
<vmlintu> We decided not to support fat clients with less than 1 gig of memory and it's been mostly enough. Just some applications that behave badly..
<dgroos> hmmm... which apps in particular?  any generalizations?
<vmlintu> In general applications behave well, but sometimes opening some file in openoffice eats a lot of memory. Firefox can be a memory hog too. And Smartboard software eats some memory too..
<dgroos> How many .glade files?  I've already mentioned my Greek language skills :( but I do know how to use google translator and can get started with that.  Are we talking about 5-10 hours? 50-100?
<alkisg> dgroos: I think you could get it translated in a couple of hours - the problem is that there's no infrastructure for internationalization, so you have to merge any changes manually
<alkisg> I could get some people here that work on it to internationalize it in the summer, it's not a problem
<alkisg> The problem is that it's pretty much tailored for greek needs, so I'm not sure if it would be useful to others without modifications
<dgroos> vmlintu: you use the linux version of notebook software on a fat client :)  and it's working?  Wow!  I wonder if there are more problems with using Firefox as a fat client than as a local app?
<alkisg> I imagine that that best course would be to break it into 3-4 different packages, and then put the greek customizations on another, seperate package that would depend on those packages. And e.g. some finland schools would create another package that would depend on them, etc.
<vmlintu> dgroos: yes, we've been running it for almost 2 years now on fat clients. It's working as well as it works on linux. The new 10.2 version should fix most of the problems, I think, but we haven't updated to it yet..
<vmlintu> or is it 1.5 years now..
<alkisg> Firefox on fat clients is much better than firefox as a localapp
<vmlintu> dgroos: I have so little experience with localapps that I cannot say if firefox better or worse on fat client vs. local-app
<dgroos> alkisg: I'd like to help.  Gonna be at the meeting today?  I know it is most likely past your bedtime ;)
<dgroos> Thanks Gents, this is MOST interesting!
<alkisg> Sure, I'll be there unless something comes up. It's at a very good time for me, when the kids go to bed... :)
<vmlintu> alkisg: what kind of problems have you had with firefox as localapp?
<alkisg> vmlintu: if you open a document, it tries to launch openoffice locally
<alkisg> Also it needs some care to solve some theme/localization issues
<dgroos> vmlintu: I checked out your blog--you in Finland as well?
<vmlintu> dgroos: yep, I'm in Finland
<dgroos> I'm a little slow on the uptake... but I get there! :D  Helsinki?
<vmlintu> yep, Helsinki
<vmlintu> alkisg: have you done something with the remote-apps support?
<alkisg> vmlintu: nope, I'm not using localapps. In my opinion if a client is good enough for localapps, then it should be used as a fat client instead.
<alkisg> (so no remoteapps too)
<dgroos> vmlintu: Ever heard of Tarmo Toikkanen?  He has helped me with some of the work I'm doing with FLE3/4 and wrote a plone content type to make on online "Vee".
<dgroos> alkisg: could I use NX client to pretend that I was sitting in front of the server?  Could a couple of teachers do that?
<alkisg> Sure
<alkisg> neatx-server is also very very easy to setup
<vmlintu> dgroos: I've heard the name, but I don't know more about him..
<dgroos> alkisg: I like that 'e' word.  I'll check it out.
<alkisg> dgroos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX#Installing%20the%20FreeNX%20server%20on%20Ubuntu%20Lucid%20%2810.04%29
<dgroos> vmlintu: He works with a guy named Teemu Leinonen, as I understand, at the Media Lab Helsinki.  Have you ever seen FLE3 in use?  What's your experience with it?
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks!
<vmlintu> dgroos: no, I haven't seen FLE3
<dgroos> alkisg: hope to talk to you this afternoon/night :) at the meeting.
<alkisg> Thanks... /me is now looking to support video broadcasting with vlc transcoding / multicasting...
<dgroos> vmlintu: it is this wonderful server-based program that is specially designed to scaffold students discussions in science.  Let me know if you are interested I'd be quite happy to share with you my experience with it.  Gotta go back to grading those papers :)
<vmlintu> dgroos: ok, I'll have a look at it
<dgroos> FLE3 is getting old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fle3 but the best part of it, the knowledge building, was redeveloped in a wordpress blog which is what I'm currently using: http://fle4.uiah.fi/about/#comment-1312
<bencrisford> highvoltage: meeting tonight? :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: yep
<bencrisford> :)
<bencrisford> highvoltage: i make it meeting time ?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> Meeting time!
<alkisg> stgraber, what were the problems that made you decide to develop nbd-proxy? Would they also apply to nbd swapping?
<stgraber> alkisg: I wanted connections to re-establish in failover environments with two nbd servers
<stgraber> alkisg: so in my case, having that for swap was pointless as the swap wouldn't be the same on both server and so it'd make the thin client to kernel panic anyway
<alkisg> Ah, got it. So there's no need for it on single server environments. Thank you.
<dgroos> Meet room again?
<dgroos> research leads me to think it is in #ubuntu-meeting and others are there... how come nothin' seems to be going on there?  Need I knock or something?
<alkisg> dgroos: you're an hour late
<highvoltage> dgroos: hmm?
<alkisg> Uhm, or maybe we did the meeting one hour earlier?!
<alkisg> "Next Edubuntu meeting is on Wednesday, 9 June at 20:00 UTC."
<highvoltage> nope, we did it usual time :)
<highvoltage> !?
<alkisg> $ LANG=C date -u
<alkisg> Wed Jun  9 20:11:19 UTC 2010
<alkisg> Yeah, the meeting is now :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: eek, that was a mistake
<alkisg> Heh
<dgroos> LANG=C date -u says 20:12:35 for me...
<alkisg> dgroos: yeah the meeting was at 19:00, the mail had the wrong time :-/
<highvoltage> dgroos: sorry about that
<alkisg> (dgroos, the LANG=C in front is just so that I don't show greek days to you, you don't actually need it)
<dgroos> well, that's one way of keeping troublemakers like me from causing trouble ;)
<dgroos> what did you guys talk about, ie topics?
<highvoltage> dgroos: debian-edu/edubuntu collaboration, website update, tuxpaint langauge fix in alkisg's ppa...
<dgroos> any decisions about those scripts of yours?
<highvoltage> dgroos: vikram's docs proposal, and also about how few people have had time for edubuntu recently
<highvoltage> dgroos: which ones in particular? live-ltsp?
<dgroos> highvoltage: the ones that alkig has made for the Greek schools that sets up a classroom LTSP server 'with just a few clicks' :) and has a different kind of remote desktop program that is much more efficient than iTALC, it appears.
<highvoltage> aah, *those* scripts
<dgroos> alkisg: I see. That little command, date -u, will save me a lot of hassle as long as I put it into long term storage!
<highvoltage> he's been quiet about them recently :)
<dgroos> :)
<dgroos> As well he should be!  If I created something like that I wouldn't want any of my colleagues to know about them either!
<alkisg> highvoltage: nah - as a matter of fact today was the announcment day here in greece
<highvoltage> alkisg: ah nice!
<alkisg> It's a superset of italc + a lot of wizards for easy thin + fat chroot installation
<alkisg> But it's very customized for greek schools, so if it was to form an upstream project, modifications would be needed - not just translations
<dgroos> Isn't this the kind of thing we're looking for, something to make edubuntu easy for the masses?  I like the idea of a classroom server for schools that are just starting to implement edubuntu where the teacher or tech person doesn't have access to the server and server room.
<dgroos> And, don't need cat 5e or cat 6 in the walls...
<alkisg> Sure. What I imagine is an upstream project with the network backend + the main gui, and a lot of subprojects that customize it for specific use cases
<dgroos> Something like a modular structure where Sabayon (sbalneav's), ldap integration, etc plug in to it?
<dgroos> I like the idea of user-friendly/user-adjustable scripts to set up a server.
<alkisg> Right, a plugin idea. Well... I don't use sabayon because I prefer to offer menus for the things that teachers would do by sabayon, and I don't use ldap because having all the users in the ltsp server and editing them with users-admin is easier, but having plugins with those options would be a great idea.
<dgroos> do you use webmin?
<alkisg> No I've heard bad things about it. And I don't really need it, it's too technical for the teachers here.
<vmlintu> alkisg: you don't need the user information outside the ltsp environment?
<alkisg> vmlintu: no, any student databases that we have are unrelated to the user accounts
<dgroos> I've read some things about it as well, but it has been very useful to me for the last 4 years.  I see from his screen shots that Asmo uses it as well.
<alkisg> But if there was a preinstalled ldap server / client model in edubuntu and/or ltsp, we'd surely use it, I don't see any downsides if all the tools support it (e.g. now users-admin doesn't support it so the teachers don't have an easy way to add ldap users)
<vmlintu> alkisg: do you have a separate database for moodle etc?
<dgroos> alkisg: don't districts use a centralized authentication database?  don't students move between schools within the same region?
<alkisg> Schools here don't use moodle. We do have a central moodle installation for all schools, but it isn't used much neither.
<alkisg> dgroos: no - you have central authentication between schools?! Wow...
<alkisg> The ministry maintains an ldap directory for student emails, but the local schools don't use that information for authentication
<vmlintu> What we are now working is something like that - one central server can manage one or multiple ldap databases and when servers are installed in schools, they are connected to use the central server. This gives the servers instant access to user information and there's no need to install ldap tools on the server itself.
<vmlintu> it can be used locally also if needed
<dgroos> Same here in Minneapolis.  I can be at another school, on a mac or pc, and log in at that school and access my account.
<alkisg> dgroos: in either windows or linux? Or is it just linux?
<alkisg> (and macos)
<vmlintu> dgroos: is it school district / city wide or something bigger?
<alkisg> And how do you access your files? With nfs + kerberos?
<vmlintu> alkisg: we have kerberos+nfs4+autofs+ldap to mount the home directories
<dgroos> Of the few thousands of computers in Minneapolis, I'm the only one running Linux (plus the 2 other classrooms I'm supporting.
<dgroos> *Minneapolis Public Schools
<alkisg> vmlintu: what's the lowest possible network link between where a user logs in and where his files are? E.g. if he logs on in a different school, does he access his files over an adsl line?
<alkisg> dgroos: how do you share your home dirs then? Active directory over vlans?
<dgroos> I do want to be able to authenticate to the LDAP next year on my thin client network, but have student accounts on my server. Though, it might be cool to integrate with the rest of the district and have student folders on the district server mount in linux.
<vmlintu> alkisg: adsl speeds don't really work, but luckily most of the connections are at least 100Mbps
<vmlintu> alkisg: it all depends on the number of users using the link, though. 4/4Mbps has been used succesfully
<alkisg> vmlintu: ah, good. That won't work here for some years though :-/
<vmlintu> alkisg: we do provide web access to home directories, though, so that can be used in those cases
<alkisg> Very nice. I do hope we get all those sometime in the future here as well.
<dgroos> (Note to self--check about my computers mounting student home folders located on district servers...)
<dgroos> vmlintu: web access to home folders?  you mean a student can authenticate and browse and open there files over the web?
<dgroos> *those
<vmlintu> dgroos: yep
<dgroos> Cool.
<vmlintu> alkisg: this is our future user management tool: http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-users/
<alkisg> vmlintu: cool, it looks very professional. Do you have any thoughts about providing a wizard-driven initial ldap database setup?
<vmlintu> http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools/ ;)
<vmlintu> the goal is to package this: http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-users/database-setup
 * alkisg is looking forward to using all those when they're ready
<vmlintu> basically the script just needs basic information for ldap+kerberos and it configures openldap+mit kerberos on the server
<alkisg> I've read that database setup page. I once made a script to automate somthing similar, and I think sbalneav has made an ldap database installation .deb package
<vmlintu> the puavo-tools script differs from many others so that it can actually configure openldap to run multiple databases that do not share data
<dgroos> Wish I spoka dat talk.
<vmlintu> Basically it means that one huge server could serve the whole world and every school district would still have their own database and kerberos realm ;)
<dgroos> I think I kinda got that! :)  Google translate couldn't have done that!
<dgroos> It has been a while since I've been chatting here, nice to get back in touch.  Summers are good for teachers (make teaching possible?)  Have a good afternoon/evening/night/morning all.
<vmlintu> The ministry of education in Greece could run one central setup where every city would have its own database. Every city could use their own data to authenticate users without the need of having their own user management tools.
<vmlintu> (My uses for it are a bit more modest, but never hurts to think big.. ;) )
#edubuntu 2010-06-10
<rad4Christ> Good morning. LTSP server is going very well, few things. Does anyone know how a user setup with sabayon (User Profile Editor) works as a client, then quits working and returns to the fully default gnome? Seems to happen if I change the session at login, but also does it on its own.
<rad4Christ> Secondly, all local apps do not have a theme applied to them. The panels, windows, and GUI for all apps run on the server are using the human theme, but local apps are blocky and dull grey. Any ideas?
<LedHed> I'm having trouble with LTSP,  I'm running fat clients, and approx 1/3 of the time the clients fail to completely boot.  They stall out at the ubuntu boot splash screen
<LedHed> any ideas on what might be causing this or where I should start looking?
<alkisg> LedHed: try to disable the splash screen
<alkisg> I.e. remove "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<alkisg> Also check if this affects you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 589034 in LTSP "nbd-proxy hangs the nbd-connection to server" [Undecided,New]
#edubuntu 2010-06-11
<grantbow> An SJ Mercury News story was just filed giving a link to edubuntu.org : http://www.mercurynews.com/mike-cassidy
<grantbow> It's the main newspaper of the Silicon Valley.
<grantbow> SJ = San Jose, CA, US
<will12337> Hello everyone
<will12337> I'm working on documentation for a FOSS club, an I've gotten stuck can anyone help?
<Fudge> anyone have a vm of edubuntu theyd like to share?
<Fudge> is there a torrent fo redubuntu
<Fudge> ah just realised i can isntall the packages from ubuntu :D
<wima1> does anyone know what happened to the volume control applet?
<wima1> it is no longer available in my 10.04 LTSP setup
<alkisg> wima1: did you upgrade from an older setup or user account?
<wima1> yes
<alkisg> Here's a command that resets the panels to their default values (it'll delete any buttons you may have added):
<wima1> but i no longer have it in the applet list
<wima1> ah, interesting
<alkisg> gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
<alkisg> It takes effect immediately
<wima1> ah! volume control
<alkisg> :)
<wima1> strange that it is not in the applet list
<alkisg> Some applets are embedded into the notification area now
<wima1> now contemplating if i should do this with all my users...
<wima1> ah
<wima1> but i had a notification area
<alkisg> E.g. there isn't a keyboard applet anymore, it automatically shows when one has multiple keyboard layouts
<alkisg> Some setting was badly upgraded, you could file a bug about it
<wima1> i think i will tweek the defaults a bit, and then reset for all users
<wima1> my users are not of the tweeking kind
<wima1> the pilot users of the new server didn't notice that the window buttons moved
<alkisg> Heh
<wima1> thanks a lot!
<wima1> anything else i should know about LTSP in 10.4?
<wima1> is sabayon in a usable state now? I know sbalneav did a lot of work to get in in shape...
<alkisg> I don't use sabayon, but I'm hearing it's OK
<wima1> i'll give it a try
<Fudge> ~/c
<Fudge> hi im installing  edubuntu-artwork ubuntu-edu-preschool and primary other than the highschool tirtiary what other edubuntu packages are there i shoudl isntall
<rad4Christ> Hey guys in 10.04, ltsp-manager comes up blank when running with ltsp-server-standalone installed.
<rad4Christ> Any ideas why?
<alkisg> It isn't maintained anymore
<rad4Christ> OK, that explains it. Thanks
<rad4Christ> I'm trying to set up NAT so my thin clients running Firefox locally can connect to the internet, but when I bring up my /etc/network/interfaces, the interface for eth0 isn't there. is it because I'm using the gnome-network-manager? How do I set it up?
#edubuntu 2010-06-12
<alkisg> !info flashplugin-installer
<ubottu> flashplugin-installer (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 10.1.53.64ubuntu0.10.04.1 (lucid), package size 19 kB, installed size 184 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)
<alkisg> !info flashplugin-installer karmic
<ubottu> flashplugin-installer (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 10.1.53.64ubuntu0.9.10.1 (karmic), package size 19 kB, installed size 184 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)
<alkisg> !info flashplugin-installer jaunty
<ubottu> flashplugin-installer (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 10.1.53.64ubuntu0.9.04.1 (jaunty), package size 19 kB, installed size 176 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)
<alkisg> !info flashplugin-installer hardy
<ubottu> Package flashplugin-installer does not exist in hardy
<alkisg> !info adobe-flashplugin hardy
<ubottu> Package adobe-flashplugin does not exist in hardy
<VBU-Ingvar> its about time that canonical display a fix for Moodle. it stoped working after upgrade to lucid
<alkisg> I think it lacks a debian maintainer currently... I hope someone picks it up
<alkisg> But I don't think this one is "canonical's job" - it should be handled by the community
<VBU-Ingvar> the canonical theme has bundled moodle 1.9 and php 5.3 wich doesnt work together. I think canonical has to fix this
<alkisg> !info moodle
<ubottu> moodle (source: moodle): Course Management System for Online Learning. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.9.4.dfsg-0ubuntu4 (lucid), package size 9437 kB, installed size 61948 kB
<alkisg> Moodle is in universe, I don't think canonical cares much about it
<alkisg> Edubuntu is also driven by the community. So... I still think the community should handle this.
<VBU-Ingvar> Canonical was partner of a project, educonlinux, in europe. There part was to integrate an LMS on a Linux plattform wich they did but with Lucid they crasched it. http://www.educonlinux.eu/
<alkisg> If you're looking for canonical support, you won't find it in #edubuntu though
<alkisg> Edubuntu is a community project
<alkisg> "SURVEY ON DISTANCE LEARNING SYSTEMS ON GREECE etc" ?
 * alkisg is greek... reading on...
<alkisg> Ah, greece is only on the title, not at all on the survey contents :)
#edubuntu 2010-06-13
<alkisg> Good morning
#edubuntu 2011-06-06
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning
<vmlintu> good afternoon
<highvoltage> hey vmlintu. did you see the blog entried recently about the revival of ruby packaging?
<highvoltage> s/entried/entries/
<vmlintu> yes
<highvoltage> quite nice. hopefully upstream also learns to play along :)
<vmlintu> yes, let's hope that things start improving
<vmlintu> how's everything over there?
<highvoltage> things are good and I can't really complain. about a week behind on all my projects atm so it's crunch time.
<vmlintu> sounds like normal.. ;)
<vmlintu> the schools are out now, so I should finally be able to start working on new things
<highvoltage> nice. so you'll have time for making puavo installable for other people? :)
<vmlintu> that's one of the goals
<vmlintu> but it already seems like the summer is fully booked.. I guess summers are too short
<highvoltage> for sure.
<vmlintu> I should be able to get the demo instance running soon too
#edubuntu 2011-06-07
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<Ahmuck> morning
<dlbass> hello! I have been trying to find out a way to make Ubuntu automatically install updates on its own without asking, but I must be using the wrong keywords because I have found nothing. Can any of you point me in the right direction
<GreenHippo> Hello. When I try to install Edubuntu 11.04 i get a corrupted screen and the system locks up. Same thing happens when I just 'try before install'.
<GreenHippo> 2.6 core 2 duo with 4gb ram 1gb hdd 512 gt240 ddr5
<HedgeMage> GreenHippo: can you describe what "a corrupted screen" looks like?
<GreenHippo> heavily pixellated
<GreenHippo> no graphics. like looking up at the stars at night with a black background
<GreenHippo> is there a setting i can turn off to lessen graphic use on try or install. like a basic graphic driver
<HedgeMage> It sounds like the installer is having trouble detecting what your graphics chipset is.  Have you tried the non-graphical installer?
<GreenHippo> no. there is no choice that i can see on the bootable dvd
<GreenHippo> chipset is nvidia
<HedgeMage> hold on, I can help but parenting duty calls
<HedgeMage> I'll be back in a little bit
<alkisg> Try pressing F6 in the first boot screen and writing "xforcevesa" as a kernel parameter
<alkisg> http://ubuntu.ninetomidnight.com/images/book/options.png
<GreenHippo> ok alkisg, that worked. thanks
<GreenHippo> had to be something simple
<alkisg> GreenHippo: you might need to install nvidia-current in text mode after the installation
<alkisg> As you'll hit the same problem then
<GreenHippo> im installing on a spare hdd that ill be switching between various computers. so will install a generic video driver
<GreenHippo> its connected to the pc via a usb dongle
<alkisg> All open drivers are installed by default, so you'll get nouveau, which appareantly has a problem with your card and won't work
<GreenHippo> i see
<alkisg> Anyway try it first and you'll see about fixing it later on
<GreenHippo> ok. thanks for your help. its very much appreciated
<Pacifica>  hi there. having a strange problem with ltspfs: usb sticks work beautifully on the thin clients but USB DVD drives no longer work
<Pacifica> running ubuntu 10.04 server 64bit with 32bit clients
#edubuntu 2011-06-08
<Mic> need help installing a server image in ubuntu server 10.04, the server image is a tar file with 11 vmdk files and a nvram file
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
#edubuntu 2011-06-09
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good mornign
 * highvoltage seriously needs to put in some edubuntu time
<vmlintu> good evening
<highvoltage> good evening vmlintu
<vmlintu> the weather has been too nice lately to stay indoors..
<highvoltage> I don't really have that problem. We went from way too cold to hot and humid very fast. so indoors is still nice :)
<vmlintu> heh.. never good.. ;)
<vmlintu> you mentioned that you had heard/seen someone syncing the ltsp nbd image to local media.. do you remember anything else about it?
<highvoltage> nope. but now that you mention it, it would be kind of nice to have a tool like usb-creator-gtk that could write a thin client image to usb
<highvoltage> (if someone wanted to boot from local media instead)
<vmlintu> doing that shouldn't be too hard actually, now that I think of it
<vmlintu> automatic updating of it sounds a bit trickier, though..
<highvoltage> yeah. I guess you could have a public key on the usb disks and then you could rsync that from a server somewhere based on an identifyer on the disk
<highvoltage> that way you don't risk accidentally trashing a filesystem and you have something that can't be as easily abused
<vmlintu> what the public key would be used for?
<vmlintu> One would need to make sure also that the usb media is not mounted to the server after user logs in
<highvoltage> so that some sync server could rsync to the disks but no one else
<highvoltage> (well at least not remotely)
#edubuntu 2011-06-10
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<linguistical> hi! can anyone help me with Gnome Nanny?  I can't get it working on the latest edubuntu release
<highvoltage> hey there linguistical
<highvoltage> linguistical: I haven't really used it but if there's problems it would be great if there's bugs filed so that we can look at it
<linguistical> ok - where do I do that?
<linguistical> I've tried using it on edubuntu and installed in on plain old ubuntu 11.04
<linguistical> on the latter it didn't seem to do anything
<linguistical> on edubuntu it said the daemon wasn't started
<highvoltage> linguistical: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<highvoltage> linguistical: I'm multitasking furiously right now, but if you want you could subscribe me to the bug and I can look at it sometime
<Lobo29> Question about users desktop - Can you lock the desktop so a user cannot make changes to it, like deleting shortcuts you put there ?
<Lobo29> Question about users desktop - Can you lock the desktop so a user cannot make changes to it, like deleting shortcuts you put there ?
<alkisg> Shortcuts on the desktop are regular files. If you don't want the user to be able to delete them, you'd have to restrict his access to his own ~/Desktop dir
<Lobo29> alkisg, this is for a school, the user profile will be an auto login for all students, we have other items taken care of thru menu editor, its just locking the desktop now.
<alkisg> Do you want to allow users to create new shortcuts to their own desktop?
<Lobo29> alkisg, Nope
<alkisg> Lobo29: ok, then just chown their desktops to root:root or something
<alkisg> It's a file-system issue, not a gconf issue
<Lobo29> alkisg,  Great, thanks.
#edubuntu 2011-06-12
<doctormo> highvoltage: Yep, everything is great, nothing to worry about. Just artwork.
<highvoltage> doctormo: wow that's some latency you got there :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Sorry my friend, riding on high
<highvoltage> np!
<doctormo> highvoltage: How have you been?
<highvoltage> doctormo: good! had some toothache but nothin the dentist couldn't sort out :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Want to see something sweet? http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Computers-are-Magic-Too-212790815
<highvoltage> heh, nice
#edubuntu 2012-06-04
<cog_> How do I reinstall while preserving my Mathematica installation?
<highvoltage> stgraber: regarting the #edubuntu IRC operator declinations, AlanBell and I spoke about that earlier (just in case you're wondering)
<AlanBell> yeah, mostly clearing out old applications from all the queues so we can use them properly
<stgraber> did I miss an e-mail somewhere? I don't remember seeing anything related to #edubuntu
<AlanBell> we will do an intake of operators each cycle
<AlanBell> stgraber: it isn't edubuntu specific, I will find the blog post in a sec
<AlanBell> http://ubottu.com/ircc/2012/05/04/call-for-irc-operators/
<AlanBell> that went to the IRC mailing list
<AlanBell> and was on planet etc.
<stgraber> ok
#edubuntu 2012-06-06
<WindBuntu> hello edubuntu
<cog> What specific secondary level education software does Edubuntu provide?
<JanC> I suppose that depends on what teenagers are supposed to learn in your countryâ¦
<cog> I have my reservations about that posit, because I do not believe that Edubuntu changes according to country.  Could you assist me in proving me wrong? :)
<JanC> (or what you want them to learn)
<JanC> cog: lots of software that's not designed for educational purposes can be educational, depending on the classes they take, etc.
<JanC> e.g. I know a school that uses Ubuntu & LibreOffice in latin for latin class  âº
<cog> OK :)
<cog> I adore Latin :D
<JanC> and when I refer to countries, it's because in some countries "computer class" means "how to use MS Office"  :-(
<cog> Well, you may have heard of the more economical key layout referred to as DVORAK?  We invented that 25 years after the more-than-century-old QWERTY layout.
<cog> Yet most computer keyboards say QWERTY on them.
<JanC> mine says azerty  ;)
<JanC> but, yeah
<JanC> anyway, I'm off to sleep  âº
<cog> OK :)
<cog> Have a good rest.
<rhorstkoetter> hi. I'd like to know how I may contribute documentation to edubuntu, i.e. the preferred way to do it? I mean, let's assume I found out something by tinkering around like how to best boot a thin client with a pcmcia network card and I'd like to document that somewhere and share it with the community
<rhorstkoetter> the pcmcia thing just as an example
<rhorstkoetter> related to that I'd feel it valuable to preserve maybe already existing documentation at a central place for better/easier availability to he the community and thus I'd like to ask what you think about and how I may contribute to these efforts?
<rhorstkoetter> s/he/the
<alkisg> rhorstkoetter: better ask ltsp documentation questions in #ltsp
<alkisg> As we're designing a new wiki
<alkisg> The (ed)ubuntu ltsp documentation is at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
<alkisg> ...but I don't know how/if the ltsp wiki will affect distro-specific documentation
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: I'm not sure yet what exactly (distro-specific or not) my potential contributions would be, most likely a mix down the road getting my own setup up and running
<rhorstkoetter> it's just that after tinkering around for several evenings, I found out a lot of things and few of these insights came from a central docu at neither ltsp nor edubuntu
<alkisg> Which central docu?
<rhorstkoetter> yesterday for example I had this pcmcia pxe boot thing and hit the wall with etherboot/gpxe/ipxe until I searched around, combined several articles/howtos, extended these with own thinking into a whole so to speak
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: in my case ubuntu/edubuntu
<rhorstkoetter> but, e.g. the pcmcia pxe boot thing isn't distro-specific
<rhorstkoetter> just as one example, lemme link an article quickly http://howto.gumph.org/content/pxe-boot-a-laptop/
<alkisg> rhorstkoetter: that is hopelessly outdated
<alkisg> There's an ipxe package you can install to get the images
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install ipxe
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: ipxe doesn't work with pcmcia network cards
<alkisg> And which one does?
<rhorstkoetter> neither does etherboot/gpxe
<rhorstkoetter> netboot
<alkisg> Ah sorry I read etherboot at first
<alkisg> So basically it uses a dos packet driver for the pcmcia card?
<rhorstkoetter> I just mean that this an example of documentation that I even may extend with some steps to get it on CD that would be very valuable to the community and would save someone some time searching if something like that would be at edubuntu.org
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: yes
<rhorstkoetter> the howto is, as is, rather incomplete as it misses the last step to get a CD out of a boot floppy which is documented somewhere else for example
<alkisg> rhorstkoetter: such a page could go under UbuntuLTSP, or it could go in a non-ltsp page as well
<alkisg> Since netbooting laptops with pcmcia cards does relate to LTSP, I'd probably put it under UbuntuLTSP for it to be better organized
<alkisg> Even though it's not strickly ltsp specific
<alkisg> And it could also go in the new ltsp wiki site, as it's pretty much distro agnostic
<rhorstkoetter> I see. this is anyways just an example.
<alkisg> Sure. But it was a good example, other ones might fall right into the ltsp category, and others might be completely unrelated to ltsp, so it would be easier to decide then.
<alkisg> E.g. people often ask "how do I lock down gnome?" This is completely unrelated to ltsp.
<rhorstkoetter> The reason I ask is in the end that my very own cheat sheet grows in size every evening and I thought that some things may be of some value to someone else as well and as it is rather hard to find ltsp-specific topics/docu at a central place I felt it a good approach to contribute bits and pieces of insight (in written docs) back to the community
<alkisg> Indeed
<rhorstkoetter> I understand
<alkisg> I think the final plan is to put the distro-agnostic bits in the ltsp wiki, and the ubuntu-specific ltsp bits under the UbuntuLTSP page
<rhorstkoetter> makes sense
<alkisg> The temporary place for the new ltsp wiki is there: http://ltsp.flowledge.nl/index.php/LTSPedia
<alkisg> But it will be moved soon into wiki.ltsp.org or someplace
<rhorstkoetter> great. and I guess the general slogan here is â¦ just do it, it's a wiki?
<rhorstkoetter> at either ltsp and ubuntu wikis
<rhorstkoetter> I mean is there any QA in place I need to be aware of?
<rhorstkoetter> never contributed to ubuntu and/or ltsp before
<alkisg> Right, but if you're going to spend much time on ltsp documentation you might want to lurk on #ltsp too, to ask questions when you're unsure about things etc
<rhorstkoetter> certainly
<alkisg> I haven't seen a QA. You can start editing pages under UbuntuLTSP right away, no need to get any permission or anything
<rhorstkoetter> most likely I dealed way to much with wiki QA job-wise in the past
<rhorstkoetter> ;)
<rhorstkoetter> have seen too much processes in that regard
<alkisg> Many devs are bored to document stuff so... :-/
<rhorstkoetter> I know this too badly
<rhorstkoetter> I myself worked as a community manager/architect/project manager for some years in FLOSS
<rhorstkoetter> thus I know about the conflict dev >< docu
<rhorstkoetter> lots of awesome developments and just a few know how to use it to full potential
<rhorstkoetter> I guess this is a general crux in open source/community project
<rhorstkoetter> s/project/projects
<alkisg> We're having ltsp-docs meetings every week on irc, if you want you can join us
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: actually I would be honored doing so
<rhorstkoetter> this there a calendar?
<alkisg> Let me check...
<alkisg> Ah the wiki has moved to http://server.ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/LTSPedia
<alkisg> "Next meeting ... ?"
<alkisg> No meeting programmed, some of the devs will be missing for a couple of weeks
<rhorstkoetter> as a replacement for http://ltsp.flowledge.nl/index.php/LTSPedia
<rhorstkoetter> so http://server.ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/LTSPedia is most recent?
<alkisg> Yes... I think it's still a temporary place though, it'll be moved into a more proper subdomain
<rhorstkoetter> I see
<alkisg> Ask in #ltsp for more details
<rhorstkoetter> ok
<rhorstkoetter> dealing with zram (this time on the client side): is my assumption correct that I would put /etc/init/zram.conf into the client chroot and rebuild the chroot to enable it?
<rhorstkoetter> I have it running on the server side already but I guess zram on the client side would be even more beneficial
<alkisg> nbd-swap should be more beneficial than zram, at least with my old compcache measurements
<alkisg> compcache reduced available ram on the client and it caused high cpu usage
<alkisg> But in cases where one cannot use nbd-swap, sure, zram sounds useful
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: ok, thanks for sharing experience. still, zram for the client would require chroot rebuilding as described, correct?
<alkisg> I don't know what's needed to enable zram. For compcache, a kernel parameter was all that was necessary. Maybe for zram updating the initramfs image will be enough.
<rhorstkoetter> you basically need to put an appropriate upstart job into /etc/init/
<rhorstkoetter> it just needs enabling so to speak
<alkisg> Manually? Whoah... then the appropriate place would be a init-ltsp.d script, which creates the upstart job based on an lts.conf setting
<rhorstkoetter> this is for the server side and as client chroot basically is a very stripped down, i.e. minimal ubuntu I'd assume that the same upstart job (this time within the chroot) should work. just wanted some kind of verfication about my general chroot understanding
<alkisg> ...is the only command in that upstart job just a modprobe?
<rhorstkoetter> it's not that hard actually. I documented it for pre-zram (compcache) here http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10103495&postcount=23
<rhorstkoetter> it needs to be just slightly modified for zram
<rhorstkoetter> there even seem to be a deb package in universe in the meantime (zram-config)
<alkisg> If it's just a modprobe command, you can do it from lts.conf without anything else
<alkisg> MODULE_01=zram
<alkisg> That should suffice
<rhorstkoetter> great. that would mean that I even can enable it for just one client
<alkisg> Yeah. If it needs another command, use RCFILE_01
<rhorstkoetter> I see. The more I deal with this lts.conf the better I understand how powerful it actually is ;)
<rhorstkoetter> afaik I already used RCFILE_xy for some gconftool magic
<rhorstkoetter> we talked about user profiles recently
<rhorstkoetter> what I still haven't found out though, despite reading lts.conf manpage and ltsp manual is how to disable session menu in ldm
<rhorstkoetter> i.e. define default session (accomplished that one) and then disable to session menu altogether
<rhorstkoetter> s/to/the
<alkisg> We've committed support for that 2 days ago
<alkisg> So you'll need a very very recent LTSP in order to use it
<rhorstkoetter> ah ok
<rhorstkoetter> what about  a "hacking" solution then?
<alkisg> Download the new files from ltsp-upstream then
<alkisg> Ah you'll need a newer ldm executable too, so no
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: this would be a bit too much of a hassle IF I could hack it together
<rhorstkoetter> I have an idea already :p
<alkisg> Just install a newer ldm package
<alkisg> No need to reinvent the wheel
<rhorstkoetter> isn't it that ldm gets info about sessions from ldminfod?
<alkisg> Time to go, bbl
<stgraber> highvoltage: edubuntu installed in < 10min :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: that's crazy talk
<stgraber> no langpacks really seems to help :)
<highvoltage> rhorstkoetter: hey there, just saw your question earlier about documentation. we have an action item to do the right thing for documentation this cycle and make it easier to contribute
<stgraber> highvoltage: hmm, to add to the artwork todo => lightdm theme still says 12.04 LTS
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah, I noticed yesterday
<highvoltage> (that and installer slideshow)
<stgraber> right, I haven't updated a new slideshow for a1 anyway, will probably do it for a2
<highvoltage> I'll change the one in the branch to be mostly empty, I really really really want a completely new nice revamptes slideshow that doesn't look like a powerpoint presentation
<stgraber> highvoltage: got a few minutes?
<stgraber> highvoltage: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview#Edubuntu needs some content :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah yes, kate poked me too about that
<stgraber> highvoltage: if you don't have time, I'd just copy/paste stuff from my -release e-mails
<highvoltage> stgraber: I think that would be great
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh, did she? She also asked me to nag all the product managers, guess people will get way enough poking if both of us do it :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: yep, but I wasn't complaining :)
<highvoltage> (and I did say I'd do it then)
<highvoltage> (so it's my fault, if anyone's)
<stgraber> highvoltage: langpack auto-installs seems to work fine, so I'll just need to add the dialog for the live session before alpha2 and we'll be good
<highvoltage> that's really really cool
#edubuntu 2012-06-07
<rhorstkoetter> need to share some great stuff
<rhorstkoetter> ;)
<rhorstkoetter> I'm 99% there to pxe-kexec edubuntu ltsp from a totally pxe-incapable pcmcia nic out of a running local ubuntu install
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: thanks for your help btw. we haven't even talked about that one in person but I read some irc logs of yours
<alkisg> rhorstkoetter: btw I'm not sure if it's worth all the trouble, it might be easier to just copy the kernel from the LTSP server TFTP to your laptop...
<alkisg> Sure, having to update it every now and then can be a bit of a trouble, but it's not that bad
<alkisg> Considering it works with any NIC then
<rhorstkoetter> ok, and how would I do that? i.e. how would I start the copied kernel?
<alkisg> With any boot manager you want, even with the windows ones
<alkisg> one
<alkisg> Do you have a windows installation in your laptop?
<rhorstkoetter> wait a sec. I'd copy the kernel from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 to some local storage at the thin client and boot that with e.g. lilo? is that what you mean?
<alkisg> Yes
<rhorstkoetter> no windows install
<alkisg> OK then use grub or syslinux or lilo or whatever else suits you
<rhorstkoetter> ah, I see. that's something I may try as well
<rhorstkoetter> great info, thx
<alkisg> np
<rhorstkoetter> I have the pxe-kexec thing running with a local ubuntu minimal atm and wanted to experiemnet with slitaz-base as a next step
<rhorstkoetter> but this sounds cool as well
<rhorstkoetter> ubuntu min boots at approx 90 secs
<alkisg> If you have a local ubuntu minimal installation, just copy the kernels from the tftp to /boot, and run update-grub
<rhorstkoetter> where slitaz would lead to 15 secs verhead with pxe-kexec
<rhorstkoetter> will try that right now
<alkisg> You don't need to boot all of it just for a kexec
<alkisg> You can do that from the initramfs, without even mounting the local disk
<alkisg> So even with Ubuntu it shouldn't take more than 10 secs
<rhorstkoetter> wow, you mean pxe-kexec out of initramfs of the local ubuntu install?
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> Or pass init=your script
<alkisg> If you don't want to touch your initramfs
<rhorstkoetter> hehe. do you have some docs for this? I mean how would I tell initramfs to execute pxe-kexec?
<alkisg> Also, why the pxe- part? You don't need pxe
<alkisg> No, no docs whatsoever. :)
<rhorstkoetter> I assumed that answer :)
<rhorstkoetter> honestly, I need some minutes to get these infos settled + research (I fear)
<alkisg> If you only need minutes, you're lucky... I need months :D
<rhorstkoetter> brb
<stgraber> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview#Edubuntu <-- please...
<highvoltage> stgraber: I added the ltsp-live autologin part, besides that I think it's good
<stgraber> highvoltage: please remove that part ;) it's not published, it's just stack in bzr
<highvoltage> ah, ok
<highvoltage> stgraber: well, it's gone again
<rhorstkoetter> alkisg: re
<rhorstkoetter> I also think that I'll need some more time than just minutes
<rhorstkoetter> although I'm happy what I learned just last week about the ltsp topic
<rhorstkoetter> and related activities
<pleia2> highvoltage: on the CC agenda in ~half hour is meeting with the edubuntu team, are you or anyone around? (I'm not sure if you were formally contacted)
<pleia2> mgariepy, stgraber too ^^
<pleia2> and alkisg :)
<stgraber> pleia2: I hope to be done dealing with a small alpha1 crisis and be out for lunch by that time ;)
<highvoltage> pleia2: eek, I was vaguely familiar that it was going to happen at some point, but lost track that it's today
<pleia2> highvoltage: yeah, sorry for not giving you more warning, or reminders until now :\
<pleia2> we need to get better at that
<highvoltage> pleia2: ok, no problem. I'm not sure how much I can be around for that either, I'm juggling a few support tickets at work today so I might spontaneously dissapear at any time
<pleia2> highvoltage: ok, thanks for trying :)
<highvoltage> pleia2: would it be possible to do the catchup another time perhaps?
<highvoltage> or I guess we could try anyway
<pleia2> highvoltage: we can probably double up with another team at some point, maybe on the 21st?
<highvoltage> pleia2: 21st is fine with me, at least
<highvoltage> stgraber, alkisg, mgariepy: and you? (21st for CC catch-up)
<pleia2> 17:00 UTC
 * alkisg will try, but he's kinda busy :)
#edubuntu 2012-06-09
<XDS20120> How can i check to make sure i have plenty of disk space when using wubi ?
<XDS20120> I setup edubuntu in wubi however i got a odd error on startup saying i was low on disk space, when i checked it it shows as my ext4 partition being 98% used and a cealing of 4gb
<XDS20120> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1032835/
<XDS20120> whats the root password ?
#edubuntu 2013-06-03
<alkisg> highvoltage, stgraber: hi, I started getting CC'ed to the "contact@edubuntu.org" again, could you please remove me from that list once more?
<stgraber> alkisg: done
<alkisg> Nice!
#edubuntu 2013-06-06
<pleia2> any council members available for the check-in with the CC over in #ubuntu-meeting?
<pleia2> highvoltage, mgariepy, stgraber?
#edubuntu 2014-06-08
<JoseLuis> Hola!!
<JoseLuis> alguien puede ayudarme con edubuntu!=
<JoseLuis> :(
#edubuntu 2015-06-03
<HarlemSquirrel> Does anyone know how to preseed ubiquity commands for 14.04? I want to preseed answers to gnome fallback, LTSP, and edubuntu packages
#edubuntu 2015-06-04
<gkad> i'm new to tuxtrans. In that I would like to install tamil.ttf fonts. I could not copy the ttf in /usr/share/fonts/truetype, will you pls help me
<Marius_> Hi
<Marius_> Good afternoon all
<Marius_> need a bit of help with autologin
#edubuntu 2018-06-05
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (bionic-proposed/main) [3.0.0-0ubuntu1 => 3.0.1-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (bionic-proposed/main) [3.0.0-0ubuntu4 => 3.0.1-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-06-08
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.0.10+dfsg1-1 => 2.0.10+dfsg1-1ubuntu0.18.04.1] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (artful-proposed/universe) [2.0.10+dfsg1-1 => 2.0.10+dfsg1-1ubuntu0.17.10.1] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iperf (xenial-proposed/universe) [2.0.5+dfsg1-2 => 2.0.5+dfsg1-2ubuntu0.1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2020-06-02
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (focal-proposed/main) [20.1-10-g71af48df-0ubuntu5 => 20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
#edubuntu 2020-06-03
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (eoan-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~19.10.1 => 20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~19.10.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (focal-proposed/main) [20.1-10-g71af48df-0ubuntu5 => 20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~20.04.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (eoan-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~19.10.1 => 20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~19.10.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
#edubuntu 2020-06-04
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [19.4-33-gbb4131a2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 20.2-45-g5f7825e2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-06-06
<GLAT-agent1> Hello. I am selling GNU/Linux licenses. Contact me if you want one ($99 for single computer, $49 for each computer if purchasing for 25 or more machines).
#edubuntu 2020-06-07
<Gekko38> Hi
<Gekko38> Are download servers down?
