#ubuntu-design 2011-11-14
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> greetings folks
<peterm-ubuntu> morning
<cjohnston> sabdfl: greetings!
<doctormo-other> Hey cjohnston and of course everyone!
<cjohnston> mornin doctormo-other
<doctormo-other> cjohnston, mhall119: I've estimated that it'll take about 2 months work to make the svg-editor <-> etherpad graft. Workable, but etherpad's complexity does get in the way a bit.
<doctormo-other> Getting hold of a javascript rockstar would take less time. So I'm going to put it to one side for now.
<cjohnston> if you find one, let us know
<doctormo-other> cjohnston: Pre-made is probably almost impossible, all the good ones have been bought, butchered or don't really work.
<cjohnston> lol
<cjohnston> then develop one?
<doctormo-other> I certainly keep my eyes open for all kinds of miracles, I'll add this one to the list ;-)
<doctormo-other> "then develop one?" > yes that's what the above is.
<mhall119> daker: ^^ is that a project you'd be interested in>
<mhall119> ?
<daker> mhall119, what ?
<mhall119> daker: putting a different front-end onto etherpad
<mhall119> daker: doctormo-other wants to graft a simple graphics editor on top of etherpad's realtime edit syncing
<doctormo-other> http://svg-edit.googlecode.com/svn/branches/2.5.1/editor/svg-editor.html
<mhall119> doctormo-other: are you planning on using the lite version of etherpad for this?
<daker> ah i see
<doctormo-other> mhall119: I've only looked into the java version, but if it's using the ace2 editor thent he lite version will be exactly the same.
<doctormo-other> The actual requirements are smaller than the entire functionality of svg-editor. But the core is the hard part.
<Kaleo> hi
<doctormo-other> Hey Kaleo
<MacSlow> salut Kaleo
<Kaleo> hi doctormo-other!
<Kaleo> salut MacSlow
<doctormo-other> Kaleo: How's your design?
<Kaleo> doctormo-other: I don't design much; mostly implement designs :)
<doctormo-other> Kaleo: Ah cool, are you interested in our game design challenge?
<Kaleo> doctormo-other: not at the moment I am afraid
<Kaleo> doctormo-other: very busy times for me
<doctormo-other> Kaleo: No problem, tell your friends! :-D
<daker> hello Kaleo
<Kaleo> hi daker!
#ubuntu-design 2011-11-15
<sladen> pleia2: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-branding/+filebug?field.title=Publish+Precise+Pangolin+logo+as+vector+SVG and I'll try and work with marcashaslam tomorrow to find it
 * pleia2 submits :)
<sladen> morning
<sladen> jnick_tait: are you going to reschedule the cancelled meeting from yesterday?
<sladen> jnick_tait: eg. is there space to arrange something later today?
<sladen> jnick_tait: ta
<MacSlow> hey sladen
<Wyboredras> so...
<Wyboredras> anyone else online?
<MacSlow> sladen, do we know yet if we'll do a phone-call on Thursday or stick to IRC (here)?
<MacSlow> hey Wyboredras
<Wyboredras> sup
<Wyboredras> hum...
<MacSlow> Wyboredras, there are some folks here
<Wyboredras> are we still going to tackle games?
<Wyboredras> oh, sheers, MacSlow
<Wyboredras> cheers*
<MacSlow> Wyboredras, I don't think so
<Wyboredras> what? wasn't that the purpose?
<MacSlow> Wyboredras, not that I know of... can't recall "games" to have ever come up during the discussion at the UDS-session
<Wyboredras> what is our target now?
<MacSlow> Wyboredras, we'll still need to figure that out
<Wyboredras> oh... but what happened then? why did the purpose cahnge? and wouldn't it be better if everyone worked by themselves and just annouced what app they're doing?
<MacSlow> Wyboredras, do you refer to the "branding in games" topic of the blueprint?
<sladen> MacSlow: can't see anything in the diary for Thursday.  But I'm happy either way.  Who else is going to be on;  I can be in Millbank if it's easier
<MacSlow> sladen, Allison told me (via eMail)
<MacSlow> sladen, but not sure if you're also involved in the efforts behind this very blueprint... added my name for an action-item during the uds-session.
<sladen> MacSlow: this is $this blueprint?
<MacSlow> sladen, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-p-design-and-community
 * sladen subscribes
<sladen> pleia2: I've found the pangolin t-shirt logo
<sladen> pleia2: just need to put it up somewhere
<doctormo-other> sladen: Can you upload it to spreadubuntu ?
<sladen> doctormo-other: I'm also working to Tom (who drew) it on a blog article
<sladen> doctormo-other: question is whether to upload it /as part of that going out/, or to stick the PDF somewhere and then follow-up later
<sladen> doctormo-other: working /with/ Tom
<doctormo-other> sladen: Who owns the copyright?
<doctormo-other> sladen: If you can, email it to me, I'll process it into an svg and upload it to the right places, please include copyright information and license.
<sladen> doctormo-other: Copyright Canonical.  What licence do you recommend?
<doctormo-other> sladen: Creative Commons, Attribution is typical for these types or works, the addition of share-alike is likewise good for ensuring derivatives remain open.
<sladen> CC-BY-SA ?
<doctormo-other> yes
<sladen> groovy
<thorwil> sladen: wouldn't the best place for such graphics be the toolkit?
<thorwil> http://design.canonical.com/brand/, within a new folder reserved for per-version graphics
<doctormo-other> thorwil: Depends if it's a core brand or not
<doctormo-other> I admit it would be cool to get a release toolkit, esp for the LTS
<sladen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-branding/+bug/890497  ... suggestions on there
<sladen> I can put it where-ever would be best
<sladen> plan is to write a blog post with some of the working intermediate design steps
<sladen> and at that point we can point to whereever would be best
<sladen> best/preferred
<sladen> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Precise  until there's somewhere more appropriate
<thorwil> ok
<pleia2> sladen: thank you so much!
#ubuntu-design 2011-11-16
<MacSlow> hey folks
<mhall119> morning
<YoBoY> hi designers :)
<yaili> hi
<YoBoY> there is a release date for the new design website (madebymake.something) ? My locoteam (ubuntu-fr) started to work on a new design and this site can really help us :)
<yaili> YoBoY: not yet, I'm afraid, but I'm working on the schedule for that this week, as soon as possible, it's very important! :)
<yaili> YoBoY: also, that won't be the correct url
<YoBoY> yes sure :)
<doctormo-other> Have people seen the post on planet from Christian Giordano?
<YoBoY> there is some rules my team have to follow on top of the guidelines, or are we free to adapt these guidelines with our own ideas ? If I remember well my team was an example for a "type 3" ubuntu websites
<mhall119> yaili: is there any help we can offer in getting the new design website out?
<doctormo-other> wendar: Could I grab your ear for a few minutes?
<YoBoY> doctormo-other: I have seen it and it was right on time. Our parisian party is over and I finally have more time to work on design
<yaili> mhall119: sadly, no, it's mainly logistics
<doctormo-other> nuthinking: ping
<nuthinking> doctormo-other: hi
<Andy80> hi :)
<wendar> doctormo-other: good morning :)
<wendar> doctormo-other: have got one meeting in 5mins, but free after that
<mhall119> Hi all, I've started a wiki page for the design team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam
<mhall119> I think we should discuss what the mission for this collaborative team should be, what we would like to see as goals, and where we should limit our scope
<om26er> I have a question, would the launcher have blur in future?
<sladen> om26er: I think rosie/chaotic might have tried some experiements with blur in the design process
<sladen> om26er: jaytaoko would be able to say what the actual situation on the implementation side is
<om26er> i saw blur in the launcher sometime the Oneiric cycle IIRC
<om26er> would be good to have the launcher blurred, in some cases the totally transparent panel can be un clear on eyes, especially for BFB
<sladen> om26er: yes, IIRC in Orlando rosie, Otto, Cimi and MacSlow(?) were looking at possibilities for making the background work a little more effectively
<om26er> sladen, that's interesting and cool to hear :-)
<om26er> launcher needs to rock harder :-D
<sladen> om26er: I think the general idea is to firm up what's there
<sladen> om26er: eg. the reports of certain colour-combinations causing text<->background constrast issues
<MacSlow> sladen, I was not directly involved in this particular discussion
<MacSlow> I talked with Otto about other background-related stuff
<calcmandan_pre> Hello folks
<om26er> jaytaoko, continuing here, will the launcher have blur ?
<jaytaoko> om26er: When the dash opens the launcher background becomes blurred
<jaytaoko> om26er: same thing for the Dash and the panel.
<om26er> and when there is not dash i.e. launcher over a maximized window is revealed, blurred launcher would look more attractive wont it?
<jaytaoko> om26er: you are asking about having the blur be permanent in the launcher?
<om26er> yes jaytaoko
<jaytaoko> om26er: it is technically feasible. However there are a many reason why we don't do it at this stage.
<jaytaoko> om26er: First it has to be part of the design.
<jaytaoko> om26er: then there is the cost in resource and performance
<om26er> I'll open a bug for that to see what design thinks about that
<om26er> oh performance :/
<jaytaoko> om26er: The launcher being always visible, having an active blur there is more demanding
<om26er> jaytaoko, that would be more of a problem on slower GPUs
<om26er> right?
<om26er> toggle FTW! :-D
<jaytaoko> om26er: right! Oneiric was our first release of the active blur. We can still improve on the technique we use
<jaytaoko> om26er: So it is not excluded that we are going to make the active blur more optimized in the future.
<om26er> jaytaoko, could I assume "future" to be LTS+1 or that may happen this cycle as well ?
<jaytaoko> om26er: Not sure; the first requirement is to have design decide on the treatment they have for the launcher
<om26er> jaytaoko, I will open a bug about that :-)
<jaytaoko> om26er: in the mean time that doesn't stop us to find new ways to optimize the algorithm for the blur
<jaytaoko> om26er: no problem!
<om26er> jaytaoko, thanks for all the info :-)
<jaytaoko> om26er: you're welcome :)
 * AlanBell wonders if the London design team folks would like to come out to play
<AlanBell> we have a pub meet on the 8th of December in Surbiton
<AlanBell> and christmas meal on the 9th of december at Dans Le Noir in London
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-uk
 * AlanBell further wonders if sabdfl is in town for that?
<sabdfl> Dans le Noir tried to kill me
<sabdfl> well
<sabdfl> mistook 'allergic to shellfish' for 'i'll have extra shrimp, please'
<sabdfl> it was entertaining :-)
<sabdfl> great night, otherwise
<AlanBell> gosh, that isn't so clever
<AlanBell> nice 'tashe by the way
<doctormo-other> sabdfl: An attempt on your life! never!
<doctormo-other> AlanBell: We put in for lil-Violet's passport, I'm hoping I can come to that event still.
<popey> oh wow, you're coming too?
<popey> I've convinced Mrs Popey to come along too
<AlanBell> excellent!
<popey> I said that even though the place will be full of geeks, she wont be able to see them.
<doctormo-other> popey: With the wife off on maternity leave and me off forever, the schedule is flexible. Matter of baby's schedule now ;-)
<AlanBell> doctormo-other: do sign up on the page, we have a hard limit of places and it is first come first serve, you can change your attendance up to 48 hours in advance
<popey> Do you have someone to look after mini-mo whilst you're eating unknown food product in the dark?
<doctormo-other> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/ <- popey like the new design for listing attendees?
<doctormo-other> AlanBell: Job done.
<AlanBell> yay \o/
<doctormo-other> popey: Probably will be the wife, or my good friends in Surrey.
<doctormo-other> ...looking after the lil one.
<pleia2> doctormo-other: lyz is my lp name, pleia2 won't work (that's why I changed it)
<doctormo-other> pleia2: I forgot why I needed it.
<popey>   
<wendar> pleia2: oh, good I just fixed workitem in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-ux-participation
<pleia2> thanks :)
#ubuntu-design 2011-11-17
<MacSlow> greetings everybody
<om26er> JohnLea, Hi! I was wondering what do you thing for the launcher to have blurred background all the time?
<om26er> was it considered at some stage?
<JohnLea> om26er; the launcher background should be identical to the Dash, alt-tab, etc... it is the same material and therefor should have the same blur, etc...
<JohnLea> om26er; not having it is a bug
<om26er> JohnLea, currently when the dash is not opened and we reveal the launcher from the left edge, its solve transparent with no blur
<JohnLea> om26er; if there is not a bug reported already about this, feel free to report it and ping me the bug number
<JohnLea> om26er; yes, this is a bug
<om26er> s/solve/sole
<om26er> JohnLea, I was in the process of reporting the bug already :-) i will ping you in a few minutes
<JohnLea> om26er; great, thx ;-)
<om26er> JohnLea, bug 891575 :-)
<om26er> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/891575
<mainerror> Quick question. I've asked this after UDS-O already but I know that you guys have been quite busy.
<mainerror> What is the status on the Ubuntu animal logos in SVG format?
<mainerror> Do you plan to release them?
<wendar> [11:43:05] <sladen> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Precise  until there's somewhere more appropriate
<mainerror> Oh nice.
<wendar> Hi all
<MacSlow> hey wendar
<wendar> We're going to have an (informal) meeting here in channel
<MacSlow> wendar, oh... Allison... had no idea this is your nick :)
<wendar> We're talking about this blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-ux-participation
<wendar> MacSlow: :)
<charline_> wendar, I'm here.
<MacSlow> hey charline_
<wendar> hi charline_
<wendar> doctormo isn't on yet, but will be here soon
<wendar> I'd like to start off with some introductions, anyone who's interested in this project.
<wendar> I'll start
<wendar> just paste in a sentence or two when you can
<wendar> I'm Allison Randal, years ago I worked as designer. Most of my time is development/packaging these days, but I still do the occasional book cover or graphic piece for my slides. I'm looking forward to working on some user journey's for Ubuntu.
<charline_> I'm Charline Poirier, currently the acting head of design as well as the user research programme lead.
<charline_> I tend to look at design from the users' point of view and its impact on users
<MacSlow> Ola... I'm MacSlow (member of Canonical's DX-team, did NotifyOSD... now working on unity) I'm here to help and mentor anything technical and guide community people about best practises for asset/artwork flow designer->engineer.
<MacSlow> ahm... real name being Mirco MÃ¼ller... sorry :)
<wendar> okay, so a few bits and pieces to start
<wendar> doctormo created a launchpad team yesterday
<wendar> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design
<mhall119> I thought we already had an LP team, didn't cjohnston make one at UDS?
<wendar> mhall119: link?
<wendar> and, hi
<wendar> thanks for creating the DesignTeam wikipage
<mhall119> wendar: I'm looking, I could be wrong
<mainerror> So everyone interested in the community design team is supposed to introduce himself?
<mhall119> ok, I'm not seeing anything, so maybe he didn't
<wendar> mainerror: yes, please do
<wendar> mainerror: just a little about yourself, or your interest in Ubuntu design
<mainerror> Alright. My name is Octavian Damiean. I've started as a web-designer and moved to mobile applications design. I'm involved in the Q&A platform Ask Ubuntu and am generally very interested in design and user experience.
<mainerror> This is something I made for the Natty release.
<mainerror> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts/36648#36648
<MacSlow> mainerror, oh... never seen that... sweet!
<mhall119> I've seen it, very helpful
<wendar> mainerror: oh, neat, I had that as my wallpaper for most of Natty. Never knew who made it.
<mainerror> :)
<mainerror> Glad you like it.
<cjohnston> mhall119, the team I made was strictly for tha brand guideline stuff
<mhall119> oh, ok
<cjohnston> which I'm still waiting to hear from yaili  on if we can get access to the site
<wendar> cjohnston: ah, makes sense. Yes, we have two blueprints working on this channel.
<wendar> mhall119: introduce yourself?
<mhall119> My name is Michael Hall, I'm a web developer for Canonical ISD, as well as community web projects such as Summit and LoCo Team Portal.
<mhall119> I'm not a designer, but I am a consumer of the product of designs both from the Canonical design team, as well as community designers
<mhall119> It's my goal here to bring the two sets of designers together, to communicate and work collaboratively to improve the quality and quantity of design products available for Ubuntu
<cjohnston> wendar,I dont know that we had a bp, it was am overview of the new guideline stuff.. and during that session I asked the design team members who were present if they would be willing to join a chanel to make communication more open and available
<wendar> maybe I should say two projects/initiaitives?
<wendar> cjohnston: introduce yourself?
<wendar> cjohnston: and thanks for all the help getting this set up
<cjohnston> what he said except I'm not canonical.. im on my cell phone so thats it for now
<wendar> am I missing anyone else who'd like to do an introduction now?
<mhall119> Chris works on several community websites, he's the project lead for the LoCo Team Portal and staus.ubuntu.com, and is heavily involved in Summit as well (and probably more that I can't think of)
<mhall119> daker: are you around to introduce yourself?
<wendar> So, doctormo and I worked together on some initial drafting yesterday, to start filling in details on the new team
<wendar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam
<wendar> hi doctormo-other
<mhall119> morning doctormo-other
<wendar> doctormo-other: introduce yourself?
<doctormo-other> Hey guys,
<doctormo-other> I'm doctormo aka Martin Owens, originally a programmer with media skills I've moved over the years into design, art and production workflows.
<wendar> doctormo-other: I just put up our draft text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam, for all to comment on
<doctormo-other> great,
<mainerror> Looks good so far.
<doctormo-other> This is fantastic wendar, brilliant. I've just updated critique to peer review.
<doctormo-other> wendar: The contact should just be the CC until we have a leadership in place. No need to mention canonical vs community.
<mhall119> wendar, doctormo-other: do you think we can work something into the mission statement about making the designs work available for reuse under an open license?
<wendar> doctormo-other: good idea, added
<wendar> mhall119: yes, makes sense
<charline_> wendar:  would it be worth specifying the diversity of skills that is implied in 'design', visual, UX, interaction, brand, etc.?
<charline_> wendar:  and when we mention the user journey, we could map out how these different skills collaborate
<mainerror> I think a list of helpful resources might be good.
<mhall119> mainerror: +1
<wendar> charline_: yes, very good
<mhall119> links to the branch guidelines (and new portal once it's live), etc
<mainerror> A glossary, links to good design, UX, etc. blogs.
<doctormo-other> mhall119: Added in a bit in the mission and a bit in the rules.
<doctormo-other> mainerror: That's be great, do you know where to find them?
<mainerror> Well I can only share what I use/read. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/
<mhall119> doctormo-other: wendar: do you think we should decide on a few "preferred" licenses?
<wendar> mhall119: it looks like doctormo listed CC-BY and CC-BY-SA
<wendar> mhall119: are there others it'd be good to add to that?
<doctormo-other> mhall119: In my experience, yes. There are only 4 or 5 useful licenses and most other things are disruptive.
<mhall119> wendar: we should pick some code licenses too, GPL/AGPL, for things like html and css files that are produced
<doctormo-other> Others include GPL (not really for art), Public Domain Declaration (not a license), CC0.
<wendar> mhall119: ah, yes, that's true, also for javascript
<wendar> charline_: would you like to write a sentence or two on the different skillsets of design, and how they interact?
<charline_> wendar:  sure
<doctormo-other> mainerror: That looks good.
<mhall119> wendar: trademark policy is likely something that's going to come up repeatedly, we should both link to the current trademark policy, as well as set some guidelines for how and when designs should use it
<doctormo-other> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources
<wendar> mhall119: we might want to do a subpage on the wiki...
<wendar> hah, doctormo beat me to it :)
<mainerror> doctormo-other: Ah nice.
<doctormo-other> mainerror: Feel free to expand the entry.
<wendar> mhall119: so, maybe a "Licensing" heading there?
<mhall119> on the Resources page?
<wendar> mhall119: or, if we want more explanation than links, could be DesignTeam/Licensing
<yaili> cjohnston: working on it still, sorry, I'll commit to having something up next week (eek!)
<mhall119> wendar: I think a /Licensing page would work best, we may be asked for a short explanation for why we prefer a given license
<wendar> mhall119: sounds good, would you like to do a first pass on that page?
<cjohnston> thanks yaili
<wendar> The last topic for today is picking a small first project
<mhall119> wendar: sure thing
<wendar> do people have some thoughts there?
<wendar> it'd be nice to pick something small at first
<wendar> maybe even a 1-week project
<wendar> so we start getting in the flow
<wendar> and have something "finished"
<cjohnston> what are you wanting in a project
<MacSlow> I remember someone mentioning something about "branding"-work in a free game... not sure though what the "branding" actually meant in that context.
<mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Licenses
<mhall119> how about making a logo for the new team?
<wendar> mhall119: page looks awesome, thanks
<wendar> mhall119: doctormo snuck one in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85284103/ubuntu-design-64.png
<wendar> mhall119: I see a stylized "D", and a speech bubble for collaboration
<wendar> (this is on the launchpad team)
<wendar> mhall119: hmmm... I also see a paintbrush
<wendar> cjohnston: looking for something complex enough to need a simple user journey
<wendar> mhall119: yeah, doctormo suggested a game, and I like the idea, it's simple enough not to get bogged down, and complex enough that there is a user experience impact
<mhall119> a new game, or redesign an existing one?
<wendar> mhall119: reviewing an existing one
<wendar> I pointed at http://fourdigits.sourceforge.net/ (which is really, really simple)
<wendar> I happened to be mentoring the developer on packaging it last weekend
<wendar> but, didn't ask the developer if he'd be interesting in collaborating on something like this
<mhall119> is there anything in the default install we can do?
<MacSlow> wendar, looks like a valid first target
<mhall119> solitaire or something?
<mhall119> gbrainy might be a good candidate, but being mono it may be on it's way out
 * wendar poking through the games preinstalled...
<mhall119> we could make an Ubuntu theme for the solitaire card deck
<wendar> yeah, gbrainy was the first I looked at
<doctormo-other> My suggestion was atlantik, the monopoly game.
<doctormo-other> mhall119: I thought there already was an Ubuntu theme?
<mhall119> doctormo-other: mine has the Gnome foot
<wendar> doctormo-other: I liked that one too
<wendar> (the monopoly-ish game)
<doctormo-other> mhall119: Maybe something that disapeared in a package update, because I remember it in 8.10
<mhall119> doctormo-other: could be, could have only happened with the Gnome3 updates
<mhall119> either way, I don't see an Ubuntu card theme
<wendar> whatever we pick, it should be something where we can collaborate with the upstream developer
<doctormo-other> I agree wendar
<wendar> so, talk with them ahead of time to see if they'd like to participate
<doctormo-other> Aye aye
<mhall119> I'm not sure if upstream would want ubuntu-branded cards, but they might take an unbranded "human" or "light" themed one
<mhall119> ok, whatever you guys pick, let me know and I'll reach out to the project developers
<wendar> mhall119: we may have to go the other direction, reach out first, and pick based on which upstreams are willing
<wendar> we could reach out to all 4
<mhall119> I'd like to do something in the default install if we can, because it'll give the most exposure to the team right away
<mainerror> mhall119: +1
<wendar> gbrainy, gtkatlantic, solitaire, 4digits
<wendar> mhall119: yes, I agree
<MacSlow> and what about considering moving a game into the default install... if their upstream is very collaborative?
<mainerror> doctormo-other: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources - I'll add more over time.
<wendar> MacSlow: also possible
<mhall119> MacSlow: we'd have to discuss that with the platform team, it will depend on the size and stability of the game
<wendar> MacSlow: (I'm moving 4 digits that way)
<doctormo-other> mainerror: Great
<wendar> mhall119: it will also partly depend on the visual appeal of the game
<wendar> mhall119: something really simple and beautiful would have a good chance of getting in
<MacSlow> mhall119, sure CD-size is always an issue... but assuming mono moves out... that would free  a lot
<doctormo-other> Now there's an idea, incetivised design.
<mhall119> wendar: right, but the visual appeal we can do something about :)
<mhall119> the size and stability, not as much
<mainerror> I would probably free a lot but our plan to get a game in might collide with someones plan to get something else in.
<mainerror> It would probably free a lot but our plan to get a game in might collide with someones plan to get something else in.
<mainerror> Sorry. IRC Cloud is being weird right now.
<mhall119> working with something already in the default isntall would definitely be easier, but a small game like 4digits we can probably get in
<doctormo-other> wendar: If the idea for trying to get it into thed efault is a good one to follow up, then count gtkatlantik out, it'll have potential legal dangers.
<wendar> doctormo-other: ah, too bad
<wendar> other candidates to add?
<mainerror> Gotta run for now. Bye.
<wendar> mainerror: thanks!
<wendar> it looks like the Puzzles section of the software center has some simple bits
<wendar> (not default, but potential)
<wendar> how about mhall119, you contact the solitare folks, and I'll contact the 4digits guy, and anyone else can contact developers of little games that look good
<wendar> and see what kind of responses we get next week?
<mhall119> wendar: sounds good
<wendar> other thoughts before we wrap up this meeting?
<wendar> okay, thanks all!
<mhall119> thanks wendar
<daker> mhall119, introduce myself to ?
<mhall119> daker: to everyone here, so we get to know eachother
<mhall119> I added the initial project ideas to the wiki team page
<cjohnston> mornin svwilliams
<svwilliams> morning cjohnston
 * cjohnston pokes doctormo-other 
 * doctormo-other pokes cjohnston
<cjohnston> got a bunch of pending members to your team
<doctormo-other> I know :-)
<cjohnston> makin em all wait? ;-)
<doctormo-other> cjohnston: You've indicated previously that you were interested in making sure the project works and not so much in design.
<doctormo-other> Is that still true?
<svwilliams> which project doctormo-other and cjohnston
<svwilliams> sorry if I'm being too nosy
<cjohnston> svwilliams: the new design project team thing
<svwilliams> ahh
<doctormo-other> So we're still mulling over the membership policy.
<cjohnston> gotcha
<doctormo-other> Anyone who's worked in ubuntu design before is in initally. But the idea it to have ubuntu-design like a motu group.
<cjohnston> gotcha
<cjohnston> then kick me out
<cjohnston> lol
<cjohnston> i want to be proactive in getting people involved, and getting assistance with the correct people and whatnot.. i have no 'design' ability per se
<svwilliams> well will ubuntu-design be purely designers?
<svwilliams> or include members of projects that need design?
<doctormo-other> good point
<doctormo-other> I think it'll be a working group, so if you need design, then you can come here and talk about it and contact the right people.
<doctormo-other> If you need to get involved with your own design, same applied but you get to brag about it later if you decide to do more design and want to join.
<doctormo-other> cjohnston: What do you think of having an open group? My fear is that it sort of becomes a popularity thing
<svwilliams> well if its open is it a popularity thing, doesn't it kill the popularity thing
<svwilliams> cause the response to beign on ubuntu-design is sure everyone can be on it
<svwilliams> unless you are worried about people joining for the sake of joining and then everything is cluttered with people
<cjohnston> i wasnt able to be here for the entire meeting, so if it was defined, I missed it, but has the project been completely defined.. last we spoke, i don't think that it was totally
<doctormo-other>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam mission statement and everything
<doctormo-other> We've approved most people I think, since they've been active, have introduced themselves etc. So we're not going to be strict about the group membership, we'll just make sure everyone is actually interested in doing design work. :-)
<doctormo-other> cjohnston: wendar wonders if you'd like to join as an administrator.
<cjohnston> Out design projects
<cjohnston> thats fine
<cjohnston> so here is what i see out of the mission statement:
<cjohnston> the first paragraph to me reads that its a moderated group..
<cjohnston> the second reads anyone interested
<cjohnston> bb in a minute
<mhall119> doctormo-other: I'm in favor of an open team, if we need a motu-like team let's make that a separate one
<doctormo-other> wendar: your consensus is required
<wendar> so, something like "ubuntu-design" and "ubuntu-designers"?
<mhall119> or ubuntu-design-maintainers
<svwilliams> or ubuntu-design and ubuntu-design-leaders
<doctormo-other> Not really leaders though :-)
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> I don't like -designers for the same reason, we'll have people in -design that are designers
<doctormo-other> I like your idea wendar
<doctormo-other> ubuntu-dotu ?
<wendar> it does make sense to have one group that has permissions, gets assigned workitems, and such, and another where anyone can join
<mhall119> with the exception of a ppa, I'm not even sure why we'd need a non-open team at this point
<doctormo-other> mhall119: Flooding, design is full of bike shed painters.
<doctormo-other> Imagine, group goes live, gets to the front page of OMG...
<mhall119> ok, then let's go with a name that connotates work, not status or talent
<mhall119> like -design-maintainers, or -design-keepers
<doctormo-other> Implies something we don't want to, that designs will be maintained.
<wendar> we need a good word for "getting your elbows dirty" design work
<wendar> drafters?
<cjohnston> sorry.. im at work
<mhall119> I like that
<mhall119> or -organizers, -managers, -coordinators
<doctormo-other> mhall119: Implied a level of authority we may not want.
<doctormo-other> I like drafters
<cjohnston> if it makes the front page of OMG i def want to be a part of it..
<cjohnston> lol.. kidding of course
<mhall119> ok, +1 for drafters for me
<mhall119> curators?
<wendar> collaborators?
<cjohnston> design-jfdi'ers?
<mhall119> the bulk of the collaboration should happen in the open team
<wendar> the teams are really just permission groups (and badges)
<mhall119> the name really doesn't matter much, so if we all like ubuntu-design-drafters, let's just go with that and get the ball rolling
<wendar> the collaboration is here
<wendar> (totally open)
<wendar> and, I guess a mailing list
<wendar> and maybe the occasional google hangout, for face-to-face
<cjohnston> no more mailing lists.
<cjohnston> lol
<wendar> cjohnston: :) true nuff
<wendar> when we get a good way going to share images, that may be all we need
<doctormo-other> wendar: Speaking of which, how goes the request to get an image bin?
<wendar> haven't submitted one to IS, we were still figuring out what we wanted?
<wendar> I don't see a good open source one we could just host
<wendar> but, there's been more discussion here in the past few days on what kind of tool we wanted
<wendar> and, I also wondered if using an existing site that designers know would be a good chance to attract more designers?
<wendar> mhall119, doctormo-other: so, go ahead and open up ubuntu-design?
<doctormo-other> +1 I think we have consensus.
<pleia2> I know some people don't care for mailing lists ;) but it would be nice to have so people who aren't quite as involved can keep up with announced meeting notes and such (I'm particularly thinking of the CC at the moment here, we can help with guidance but not everyone can always be in here reading channel)
<doctormo-other> pleia2: Perhaps an announce-only mailing list?
<doctormo-other> ubuntu-design-announce
<doctormo-other> wendar: As for the image-bin, I know plenty of people who could build one from scratch. I think cjohnston could :-D
<doctormo-other> And the quicker we get that basic service installed and instatutionalised, the better.
<cjohnston> doctormo-other: I didn't realise I got hired?
<cjohnston> lol
<doctormo-other> cjohnston: "The pay is bad, the conditions are worse and you'll be expected to produce results. Here's your badge."
<wendar> doctormo-other: the hosting part is easy, but when it comes to writing our own tools, I'd favor not throwing something up in a hurry that'll cause us pain later
<wendar> doctormo-other: if we can use imagebin.org for a while, it's one less thing to get set up before we start designing together
<doctormo-other> wendar: An image bin in something that shouldn't take a massive amount of time, strip out 90% of the loco directory, use the ubuntu-sso and the base design templates, stick an image model on it and an upload directory.
<doctormo-other> wendar: imagebin.org (and the ca one) can be very unreliable. If it's ok, we can continue to use that.
<wendar> doctormo-other: I think that's okay for the quick share use
<doctormo-other> Understood
<wendar> doctormo-other: for anything more permanent, we may want something more like bzr
<wendar> I don't know, is that a horrible idea, bzr for images?
<cjohnston> big learning curve for people not familiar with it just for images
<cjohnston> or doctormo-other can pimp GC somemore
<doctormo-other> cjohnston: If people test it, sure. ;-)
<wendar> yeah
<wendar> any imagebin isn't good for long-term storage
<wendar> more for quick sharing
<YoBoY> hi, too much to read today ^^" do I have to present myself too ?
<doctormo-other> YoBoY: Yes please, something quick.
<wendar> on my own personal workflow, I do keep book covers in source control
<wendar> but not large images
<wendar> those I do in Dropbox
<wendar> hmmm... could we have a shared UbuntuOne folder for drafters?
<cjohnston> that should work
<cjohnston> everyone gets 5 gigs.
<cjohnston> so i think that would be a good ideae
<YoBoY> ok, I'm one of the leader of the ubuntu-fr locoteam, in charge of the web team, and we are starting to work on a new design for our ubuntu-fr.org domain sites following the ubuntu guidelines
<cjohnston> YoBoY: fwiw, id wait until after the new guidelines are released instead of doing things twice
<YoBoY> cjohnston: we are atm working on the global appearance and website map, we haven't started to think about the colors and a real design yet
<cjohnston> ok
<pleia2> wendar is already there, but the CC is having a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now, if a few of you can join to ask/answer questions about our role in this that'd be great
<pleia2> (sorry for not mentioning it earlier, my brain is sleepy)
<pleia2> doctormon: care to join #ubuntu-meeting? CC meeting now, we may have questions about our role in this :)
<daker> i am not sure it was posted :
<daker> so hello everyone, my name is Adnane from Morocco, i am a web developer
<cjohnston> daker roxks
<cjohnston> focks
<cjohnston> rocks
<cjohnston> uggh
<cjohnston> ill learn one day
<daker> thanks cjohnston
<wendar> hi daker, welcome!
<daker> thanks wendar
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> :)
 * pleia2 can't see :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> hey
<wendar> <sabdfl> i asked today that design.canonical.com be moved to design.ubuntu.com, and we create accounts there for folk doing great work, regardless of affiliation
<wendar> nice
<thorwil> hi, i'm thorsten wilms from germany, all-round designer and working right now, while trying to look what goes on here from time to time ;)
<doctormon> Hey thorwil, thanks for joining in.
<doctormon> wendar: That looks like awesome news.
<nuthinking> can anyone change the room topic?
<nuthinking> I tried without success :(
<cjohnston> nuthinking: what do you want it to be
<cjohnston> i have the access
<wendar> nuthinking: I also tried without success last night (wanted to add the meeting time)
<cjohnston> wendar: you should have access
<cjohnston> wendar: give me a topic and ill make it so
<wendar> cjohnston: we haven't made the meeting a regular thing yet, so not that...hmm...
<cjohnston> lol
<wendar> maybe the launchpad team or the wiki page
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-design to: Home of the Ubuntu Design Team | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design
<cjohnston> more better?
<mhall119> looks better to me
<wendar> cjohnston: +1, thanks!
<cjohnston> :-)
<doctormon> cjohnston: How do you see the new topic?
<nuthinking> cjohnston: Home of the Design Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam
<nuthinking> cjohnston: thanks!
<cjohnston> doctormon: Home of the Ubuntu Design Team | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam | Launchpad:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design
<cjohnston> doctormon: your confusing me with all your name changes
<cjohnston> davidcalle: interested in doing more work on summit? :-)
<davidcalle> cjohnston, hi! Sure, what kind of stuff?
<cjohnston> davidcalle: all kinds of stuff... /j #ubuntu-website  ?
<cjohnston> doctormon: ubuntu-design-drafters should be admin in ubuntu-design
<wendar> cjohnston: hmmm... motu and core-dev aren't admin in ubuntu-dev. Would ubuntu-design-drafters be a permission group for, say full access to an image repository (if we created one)?
<wendar> *full read-write access, that is
<cjohnston> wendar: probably.. the reason i was thinking make it admin for -design was to have the team be the manager of ubuntu-design.. i dont particularly care either way
<mainerror> What about http://deviantart.com/ ?
<mainerror> You can create groups, maintain your galleries and it can attract new designers.
<bwinton> So, I've got a couple of thoughtsâ¦  Thunderbird is using tumblr for something similar (http://breakingtheegg.tumblr.com/).
<thorwil> mainerror: deviantart wants to be a closed environment so much that you don't even get email notifications for anything as one of their users
<bwinton> Firefox was using tumblr, but stopped because Chrome and Safari were implementing their designs before Firefox could.
<bwinton> (Ubuntu probably isn't in as competitive a market as browsers are, so that might not be a problem.  ;)
<mainerror> thorwil: I see.
<mhall119> !z Ã©'
<mhall119> darn ibus
<doctormon> thorwil: I was interviewed for a job at dA, they really wanted me :-) they use php with a hacked c-lucene indexer. It's quite baroque.
<thorwil> seems fitting :)
<mhall119> 2/w 22
<mainerror> Just noticed how much space gets wasted in a maximized software center window.
<mainerror> Filed a bug.
<mainerror> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/891804
<wendar> bwinton: I liked how Thunderbird used tumblr for the Ubuntu design/ux work last cycle
<AlanBell> what makes tumblr good for that?
<wendar> It doesn't look like the Tumblr software is open source, which would be important for us
<wendar> AlanBell: it's not a full "design collaboration tool" like we've talked about here
<wendar> AlanBell: different purpose, more like a "design blog"
<AlanBell> I am not familiar with it, but from looking at it now it looks like wordpress or any other blogging tool
<mainerror> It basically is.
<wendar> AlanBell: what Thunderbird did with it that was cool, was open publish the designs they were working on
<AlanBell> possibly a bit simplified
<wendar> AlanBell: also some YouTube demos of the updated look-and-feel
<AlanBell> yeah, that is a cool thing to do, I was just trying to understand what tumblr did that helped that
<wendar> AlanBell: I haven't used it, so I can't speak to what features we'd want that it has
<wendar> AlanBell: on the user side, it's much like a blog with RSS/Twitter feed
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> I would like to see pencil being used more
<wendar> AlanBell: they may have some nifty features that make posting images and youtube videos easier
<mhall119> +1 for pencil
<AlanBell> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx
<wendar> AlanBell: most blogging software is pretty lame around media content
<wendar> oooh, pencil looks quite cool
<mainerror> There is no .deb for Pencil, interesting.
<AlanBell> Pendulum: is cool
<AlanBell> err whut
<AlanBell> well Pendulum is cool, but why I tried to tab complete pencil and didn't read the result is a mystery to me
<wendar> mainerror: yes, even though they list "Ubuntu" on their front page
<AlanBell> it just works though
<AlanBell> install the xpi using firefox
<wendar> would be interested to see what mpt thinks of it, he's got a keen eye for usable tools
<AlanBell> it is also an *improveable* tool
<AlanBell> if you want special widgets to draw unity lenses easier or whatever you can make that happen
<wendar> AlanBell: there's also http://sparkleshare.org/
<mainerror> AlanBell: I don't use Firefox though. :)
<AlanBell> mainerror: well it will run standalone, just uses the xul framework
<AlanBell> a deb package for the standalone would be a good thing, no argument there!
 * AlanBell thought sparkleshare was the git-backed dropbox/U1 sync clone tool
<mainerror> Oh I see!
<AlanBell> wendar: what were you thinking of using sparkleshare for?
<wendar> AlanBell: that's another scenario, long-term sharing and storage for a particular project
<AlanBell> ok
<mainerror> Looks like there was a .deb until version 1.2.1.
 * AlanBell wonders if an Ubuntu One shared folder thingie would do what wendar is thinking of
<wendar> it'd be nice if drafting, sharing, and collaborating were combined
<wendar> but, pencil seems to be missing the sharing feature
<AlanBell> the sharing feature is yet to be contributed, yes :)
<wendar> (sharing being like tumblr, and collaborating being multiple people working on the same document)
<AlanBell> but that really is the sort of thing we can fix because it is open
<wendar> yeah, same for sparkleshare, needs a bzr backend (currently only git)
<wendar> maybe we could combine them :)
<AlanBell> beyond collaborating (multiple people with edit rights over a thing) there is co-editing like etherpad
<AlanBell> and doctormon was looking at doing real time sync of svgedit which would be very very very cool indeed
<wendar> AlanBell: I suspect that as some point we'll want to do a "dog food" user journey on the experience of designers working on Ubuntu
<wendar> AlanBell: (after some smaller tasks to get rolling)
<AlanBell> yeah, more dogfooding is good
<wendar> AlanBell: aye, etherpad, and google docs
<AlanBell> dogfooding is good for multiple reasons, one of which is if someone is using photoshop and illustrator they have just errected two Â£500 barriers to collaboration
<AlanBell> it would be good to see a design team top 5 list of features they want from Free Software design tools
<AlanBell> like "real time co-editing of vector graphics" or "simple workflow to share a user interface sketch from Pencil on a wordpress blog"
<AlanBell> and maybe put up bounties for them
<wendar> AlanBell: sounds good, start a page? wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist ?
<mainerror> oO
<wendar> ToolsWishlist?
<mainerror> There is no xulrunner package for oneiric!
<AlanBell> mainerror: ooh, so there isn't, I remember that
<wendar> IIRC, Mozilla dropped it
<mainerror> Great.
<wendar> well, maybe not http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/xulrunner/releases/7.0/runtimes/
<wendar> but, they did stop using it for firefox
<mainerror> So we need a PPA with the latest XULRunner and Pencils.
<wendar> it now has a separate "internal" xulrunner
<bwinton> (Sorry all, I was out getting coffee.)  AlanBell: tumblr was the easiest place for a group of us to post pictures, and get feedback.  I'm sure there are other solutions out there, too.
<bwinton> wendar: I thought I heard somewhere that we're not really supporting xulrunner anymore either.
<AlanBell> mainerror: seems I can start firefox, start pencil and close firefox (but pencil has a firefox icon)
<wendar> bwinton: yeah, I thought so too
<AlanBell> bwinton: sure, I wasn't being critical, just couldn't see why various projects had used that specifically for design sharing
<bwinton> AlanBell: Well, TB used it because FF had already been using it.  I suspect FF used it because it was the first * easiest thing they came across.
<AlanBell> fair enough, it looks like a simple and easy to use blogging platform
 * bwinton starts wondering about a quick blog-type-system built into Ubuntu-Oneâ¦  Just throw some files in a directory, and it'll automatically make a blog out of themâ¦
<AlanBell> wendar: we could easily do a set of "ubuntu" widgets for pencil, like the Windows XP set or GTK set that are in there
<wendar> AlanBell: that'd be a cool project
<AlanBell> widget for a standard window frame, the launcher, a lens, the top panel, indicators etc
<AlanBell> then draw new stuff in the framework using the sketchy gui widgets or something
 * mainerror starts reading the Ubuntu packaging guide
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist
<AlanBell> feel free to add/edit, it is a wiki ;)
<mainerror> Same goes for this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources
<mainerror> Thanks AlanBell. We are talking about that tool and I forget to add it ...
<AlanBell> pencil has an interesting set of export filters, including HTML export options
 * AlanBell thinks it wouldn't be hard to have a publish to wordpress button
 * mainerror checked out the Pencil repository
<AlanBell> ooh, export filters are kind of neat, xslt and css
<mainerror> Checking them out right now. Looks very interesting.
<mainerror> Somehow the "Export document to HTML" option seems to be broken.
<AlanBell> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Downloads/Templates.aspx
<AlanBell> you need to download a template to make it work
<AlanBell> I used the HTML Export Template with Thumbnails
<AlanBell> and I am now looking at the .odt exporter
<mainerror> Ooouuuhh! Fancy!
<AlanBell> and this is how to package a collection of stencils, they are just SVG with a Definition.xml manifest file http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/DevGuides/DevGuideDetail.aspx?DocumentPath=devguide%2fdevguides%2fstencil-collection-structure-and-file-format
<AlanBell> some have javascript in them to do special magic, like the table widget that allows you to put markup text in it to define the number of rows and cols
<AlanBell> ooh, could use that for a lens widget
<AlanBell> or the launcher
<mainerror> Interesting idea!
<mainerror> You should put it on the wishlist.
<AlanBell> it is kind of, an ubuntu set of widgets
<AlanBell> this is detail
<mainerror> That's funny. XULRunner 8.0 refuses to run the Pencil .xpi because it thinks that the App:Name is missing even though it isn't.
<mainerror> Oh my god, I'm so stupid. Never mind. -_-
<AlanBell> yeah, totally should do an ubuntu window frame with buttons on the left
#ubuntu-design 2011-11-18
<wendar> the 4digits game developer says he'd love to work with community designers on improving his game
<doctormon> Anyone seen this before: http://getskeleton.com/
<doctormon> wendar: That's great.
<YoBoY> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<mainerror> Morning dholbach.
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<AlanBell> any more items for the design tools wishlist? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist
<yaili> AlanBell: have you seen xScope for Mac?
<yaili> AlanBell: http://iconfactory.com/software/xscope
<mainerror> yaili: That tool might be good but the site is horrible.
<yaili> mainerror: I don't think that's what we're discussing here
<mainerror> I know. Just wanted to say. It took me ages to understand what the tool is about.
<johnoxton> AlanBell I am not sure if it really falls under design but there are some UX tools we'd love
<johnoxton> AlanBell the key one being something like http://www.optimalworkshop.com/optimalsort.htm
<johnoxton> and http://www.optimalworkshop.com/treejack.htm
<om26er> JohnLea, Hi! about bug 804021 was there any specific reason for the current behavior. I noted MeeGo(netbook) had a similar behavior i.e. delay to display the tooltip but then in an update they changed the behavior to real time tooltips. I personally preferred the old behavior
<mainerror> johnoxton: Those are great!
<om26er> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/804021
<om26er> this channel needs a bugbot
<JohnLea> om26er; yes, if there is no delay the tooltip flashes up all the time in a very annoying manner
<johnoxton> mainerror: yeah, I love them. Just the pricing model I hate :)
<AlanBell> yaili: I think there are compiz plugins for most of what xscope does
<JohnLea> om26er; if it was as the bug is requesting, we would have another bug with even more people complaining and asking for a delay to be added ;-)
<mhall119> cjohnston: can you get us a bug bot for this channel?
<om26er> JohnLea, fair enough we might want to experiment with a lower tooltip reveal time though, might feel better ;-)
<yaili> AlanBell: ok
<om26er> nuthinking, You designed the accordion in Unity launcher, was there any specific reason for accordion to only take place on the bottom and not at the top as in  Ubuntu 10.10 ?
<AlanBell> the optimal workshop stuff looks interesting
<om26er> this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/772792 argues against the current behavior and as now I read on a report unpinned apps will also remember their position in the launcher wont the only argument for removing accordion on the top fail?
<AlanBell> yaili: there is the enhanced zoom plugin, the resize info plugin
<AlanBell> window rules doesn't do what I thought it did :) it doesn't make rulers on screen
<AlanBell> there is also the very good colour filter plugin that allows you to test designs for colour blindness profiles
<AlanBell> deuteranopia and protanopia filters are the two main colour blindess filter options
<mainerror> johnoxton: I agree their pricing model sucks.
<yaili> AlanBell: Color Oracle works on Linux too, no?
<cjohnston> bug 804021
<webbugs> Launchpad bug 804021 in unity (Ubuntu) "launcher tooltip delay is useless and gives the impression as if the launcher is not responding" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804021
<mhall119> \o/
<cjohnston> works for now
<AlanBell> yaili: I don't know what that is. Oracle is a database to me!
<yaili> AlanBell: :D http://colororacle.cartography.ch/
<AlanBell> oh right, same thing as the compiz filters
<mainerror> Does anyone see a license notice or something for Color Oracle?
<AlanBell> mainerror: more important than the pricing model is the ability to adapt it
<AlanBell> free, but non-Free from what I can tell
<AlanBell> and it has a university copyright which usually means the authors will abandon it at the end of the academic year
<AlanBell> johnoxton: I can see some of that cardsort stuff working well as desktop applications
<johnoxton> AlanBell agreed a desktop top app would be lovely too one of the things I am interested in is being able to do it remotley.
<AlanBell> ooh, that might tie in with doctormo's thoughts on an etherpad/svgedit mashup
<AlanBell> I guess you sometimes want to do the remote stuff with the last remaining people not using Ubuntu yet too
<johnoxton> :)
<johnoxton> Something of a distraction but I'd like to design card sorting as a gameâ¦ but I'll pocket that thought for another day
<AlanBell> yes, I was thinking of using the solitaire framework or pygame cards to do that
<johnoxton> AlanBell: Well, I'd certainly be up for that conversation if people are interested in doing it
<AlanBell> I added a card sorting tool https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist
<mfilipe> is there any approach to implement window tiling in unity? I know that it has put compiz plugin that "emulate" tiling but it isn't good if compare with a real window tiling
<bkerensa> Does anyone by chance have copies of the Ubuntu banner layouts that is used for printing the banners given to approved LoCo's?
<pleia2> I suggested bkerensa join here and ask
<mainerror> bkerensa: If at all I guess over at http://spreadubuntu.org/
<mainerror> Well maybe not there but it should be there.
<pleia2> the one here is the one he's looking for: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-us-ca/6087644982/
<bkerensa> yeah its not there... I think Canonical has the design
<pleia2> the big orange one canonical sends to approved teams
<mainerror> Oh!
<wendar> bkerensa: I'll ask sladen, he'll at least know or be able to find out who to ask
<bkerensa> kk
<wendar> bkerensa: it's Friday evening in the UK, though, so things'll be shutting down
<wendar> bkerensa: do you need it before Monday?
<bkerensa> no monday will work :D
<wendar> bkerensa: cool
<pleia2> sladen usually has me submit a bug report for such things, lemme get a link...
<pleia2> bkerensa: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-branding/+filebug?field.title=Publish+Ubuntu+Banner+SVG
<pleia2> that will make him happy :)
<wendar> pleia2: good idea :)
 * AlanBell wonders if they got the logo the right way up on the vertical banners at uds-p
<pleia2> AlanBell: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6326040791/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6326784728/
<AlanBell> actually this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6326785476/in/photostream/
<AlanBell> they did some with the logo rotated along with the text, which it shouldn't do
<AlanBell> logo should always have a gap at 3 O'Clock
<pleia2> ah, interesting
<mainerror> AlanBell: I think it is correct the way it is. People tend to walk with their head in a comfortable position which is the normal head position. So the logo had to be recognizable from that angle.
<mainerror> You don't turn your head 90 degrees on the X axis just to recognize the logo. :D
<AlanBell> mainerror: indeed, just I happen to know they did make some vertical banners that were wrong
<AlanBell> there is a page about it in the branding guide
<mmiicc> according âMore on-screen measurementsâ from Wishlist: there is KRuler in Ubuntu repos, also couple Opera widgets:  http://widgets.opera.com/search/?order=name&q=ruler
<AlanBell> !info kruler
<AlanBell> < lubotu3`> kruler (source: kdegraphics): screen ruler for KDE. In component main, is optional. Version 4:4.6.5-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 103 kB, installed size 412 kB
<AlanBell> http://kde.org/applications/graphics/kruler/
<AlanBell> looks quite nice, but is KDE
<mmiicc> AlanBell: Gnome Screen Ruler is not in 11.10 repos https://launchpad.net/screenruler
<AlanBell> interesting
<AlanBell> that would be a good thing to get in for precise
<doctormon> AlanBell: Sounds easy
#ubuntu-design 2011-11-19
<czajkowski> https://twitter.com/#!/stephenfry/status/137825613322002432  nice to stepehn fry using unity
<NateW> mpt: ping
<mpt> hello NateW
<NateW> mpt: Just have a simple question about the 12.04 cycle. AFAIK it will be focusing a bit more on power users correct? If so, will the tool Jono was talking about be worked on?
<NateW> I think it's called the Kitchen Sink, or something like that.
<NateW> Ah, here it is: http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/05/19/building-the-kitchen-sink/
<mpt> NateW, the answer to your first question is I don't know, but any focus identified at the beginning of the cycle usually doesn't pan out
<mpt> NateW, as for the second question, I had not heard of this Kitchen Sink before :-)
<NateW> mpt: Fair enough. The reason for me asking, is personally I love Unity, but I think the problem most people have with it, isn't features that it's lacking, but missing the configurability we used to have back with gnome 2.x. I really think a tool like that would really benefit the release.
<NateW> mpt: So if there was a better way to configure with more options, I think it would make more people adopt the idea. (Such as globalmenu options, launcher placement, etc.)
<mpt> NateW, CCSM and MyUnity already let you configure Unity
<mpt> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/myunity-is-a-small-simple-unity-tweaking-tool/
<NateW> mpt: sure, but none are included as default =/
<NateW> mpt: which isn't much of a problem for me, as it would be for new users.
<mpt> NateW, of course, anything included by default should be integrated properly, i.e. part of System Settings, not a separate tool.
<NateW> mpt: exactly why I was asking. It'd be nice to have it built in.
<mpt> NateW, I'm not really involved in Unity, so I'm not the person to ask about how much configurability will be built in
<NateW> mpt: Who would be the one to talk to about this?
<mpt> NateW, try JohnLea or christiangiordano
<NateW> mpt: Sure, thanks.
<NateW> mpt: are the usually on here, or another channel?
<mpt> NateW, JohnLea was here yesterday. I don't know if Christian frequents this channel yet.
<NateW> mpt: Would email be best? or another form of communication?
<mpt> NateW, Christian is on the ayatana@ list.
<mainerror> There is also #ubuntu-power-users for questions regarding configuration tools and stuff like that.
<mainerror> Alright. Looks like I'll need your help on this one.
<mainerror> http://askubuntu.com/questions/80864/why-doesnt-inkscape-recognize-the-ubuntu-color-palettes
<mainerror> Also, I added this awesome webapp to our resources page. http://colorschemedesigner.com/
<mainerror> You can even simulate different types of colorblindness and it has a nice export function which can export the palettes to the GIMP format.
<AlanBell> that is kind of nice
<mainerror> Oh wow! I didn't notice the preview function. Awesome!
<AlanBell> the page examples?
<AlanBell> pretty cool
<AlanBell> and it can export a gimp palette
<AlanBell> which I think works in inkscape too
<mainerror> Indeed.
<mainerror> Too bad he didn't release the source code of the latest version.
<mainerror> Oh yea, I forgot. We have our own Stack Exchange site for User Experience questions. http://ux.stackexchange.com/
<mainerror> Same goes for graphic design but it is still in public beta. You can ask and answer questions as you'd do on Ask Ubuntu though. http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/
#ubuntu-design 2011-11-20
<mainerror> So what are the next steps? What can I do other than gathering a resources list doctormon?
<doctormon> mainerror: Now we're taking the first small steps in setting up our first project.
<doctormon> Everything that we need and all the tools we need to have ready.
<doctormon> So far I'm unhappy about what we have the capability to provide for ourselves viz tools, but that's just what we got.
<doctormon> I think we could always look towards better tools later on
<doctormon> So long as these projects are not conducted on the wiki... where data goes to die.
<mainerror> You know what would be good to have? Such a project on https://trello.com/ where everyone in the team can grab an item and work on it.
<mainerror> That way everyone knows exactly what is going on.
<mainerror> Trello was just an example, if you know a better tool feel free to point them out. :)
<cjohnston> the community team has started using trello
<mainerror> How is it going with Trello?
<mainerror> Oh yea, by the way, if someone knows, please go ahead. http://askubuntu.com/questions/80864/why-doesnt-inkscape-recognize-the-ubuntu-color-palettes
<cjohnston> mainerror: im not really sure.. im trying to add it to my workflow, but it kinda sucks that i have to update statuses in so many places
<mainerror> Oh I see. I didn't think of working on multiple projects in parallel.
<cjohnston> well.. im even talking about having to change in trello, bps, bugs, etv
<cjohnston> etc
<mainerror> Oh.
<mainerror> I've created a Trello organization for our team. https://trello.com/ubuntudesign
<mainerror> And a first board for general, more organizational tasks.
#ubuntu-design 2013-11-12
<davidcalle> katie, ping
<katie> davidcalle, pong
<davidcalle> katie, hi! I'm facing a Dash design issue and I was directed to you. More specifically: we are going to need a way to add some data provider branding to scopes results : both result tiles and previews. AFAIK, there is no existing design for that. Would you have a moment to talk about it?
