#ubuntu-arm 2009-02-25
<rbelem> hi all
<rbelem> where can i download the arm toolchain?
<rbelem> or should I build my own?
<lool> rbelem: We use a native toolchain, you can install Ubuntu on an ARM device directly
<rbelem> lool, I bricked my board :-(
<rbelem> lool, I'm trying to build a new u-boot and another tools to rescue the board :-/
<lool> rbelem: You could build natively within qemu
<lool> There's also the possibility of building a cross toolchain or using a non-Ubuntu prebuilt one
<lool> I don't know what uboot expectations are, if it's only a naked cross gcc I have that, if it's with libgcc I have not
<rbelem> lool, well, i'm following this guide http://nishanthmenon.blogspot.com/2008/12/towards-creating-beagleboard-nand.html
<rbelem> lool, and what it says about toolchain is "Cross compiler: arm-none-eabi-gcc: 2007q3-53 (4.2.1)"
<rbelem> lool, it seems to be the codesourcery toolchain
<armin76> rbelem: you probably want crosstool
<armin76> or use gentoo *g*
<ogra> rbelem, eh ? why dont you just create an SD card with a recovery u-boot image ?
<lool> rbelem: Yes, it's likely to be the code sourcery toolchain; you can download it from code sourcery directly
<ogra> there are plenty around you can just dd to the card to fix your board
<rbelem> ogra, I tryied all day long, yesterday, using the mmc method, but it did not work for me. I was looking for another way to recover, so I found that one.
<ogra> what exactly does your board do on boot? do you get any output on the serial console ?
<rbelem> lool, I searched their website and I just found the sources, maybe I did not look very well :-)
<rbelem> ogra, I try again and will paste the result to you
<lool> rbelem: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Cortex_A8_ARM
<rbelem> ogra, I guess it worked, like a miracle. \o/. I just used the same sd card, but it stuck
<rbelem> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d5921c419
<rbelem> thanks very much lool
<ogra> :)
<rbelem> ogra, yesterday I was getting a different error
<rbelem> ogra, i will wait for a while to see what happens
<rbelem> ogra, nothing happens, I will reset
<rbelem> ogra, now I got the same error
<rbelem> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d78fb6b36
<rbelem> and another
<rbelem> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d53897951
<lool> rbelem: That sounds like hardware issues, but I could be wrong; for PCs, ECC means your RAM is checksummed
<lool> Or rather has a parity bit
<rbelem> lool, I read somewhere that this error is common when nand is wrongly flashed
<lool> Oh ok, might be ECC in the flash then
<rbelem> lool, I downloaded a MLO that done that.
<rbelem> lool, from here http://code.google.com/p/beagleboard/
<rbelem> lool, "There are some broken MLO (x-loader) out there which fail to boot if something wrong is in NAND. E.g.: "
<rbelem> "This seems to happen with both MLO's from Beagle source code page (381MHz and 500MHz one) independent of U-Boot version. "
<rbelem> :-(
<lool> Hmm no idea
<rbelem> hi all, i'm on the way to unbrick my beagle :-D
<rbelem> i'will describe later what was done in details
<rbelem> thanks to you all
<rbelem> :-D
<rbelem> ogra, which kernel fits better for beagle? this? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/beagle/kernel/
<ogra> no, thats pretty old, i guess the mojo kernels are better for now
<ogra> or build something based on the openembedded tree
<ogra> they have all the patches for the framebuffer that are missing from linux-omap atm
<rbelem> cool! thanks ogra
<ogra> ask koen in #beagle where to get it :)
<rbelem> ogra, nice! ;-)
<rbelem> \o/
<ogra> i'd suggest a xubuntu desktop and a lot of swapspace btw
<ogra> thats what i run on mine, runs half way decent
<ogra> (not actually fast, but usable for the patient soul ; ) )
<lool> dave_m: Around?
#ubuntu-arm 2009-02-26
<Stskeeps> curious, does the -omap tree have fast USB on beagle these days?
<ogra> mobile team meeting (where we also often discuss arm issues) in #ubuntu-meeting in 10min
<Stskeeps> is it open to just listening in too?
<ogra> sure
<Stskeeps> alright
<ogra> even to asking and giving coments :)
<Stskeeps> hehe, nah, i'm at work :P and it's easier to listen in and catch up on what U-M is doing these days
<Tscheesy> hi ogra - did you find anything about the Hal restart-Prob in the Kubuntu-/fs_from_scratch?
<Tscheesy> i'll give it a try again the weekend anyway
<ogra> not really, and i built a rootfs without probs 5min ago that didnt expose that
<Tscheesy> ok.. on Daily-Jaunty?
<Tscheesy> i mean the Build-System
<lool> So kexec-tools added to Pas/armel
<lool> Now needs a merge
<ogra> i thought that was long done ?
<ogra> (i asked NCommander in berlin to take care of it)
<ogra> (and i thought he triggered lieb to do it)
<NCommander> ogra, I was told it was on the TODO list for the kernel team
<ogra> right, and i catched up that pgraner assigned the task to lieb, so could you trigger him with the info lool gave above ?
<NCommander> Sure
 * NCommander notes that on his TODO list
<ogra> thanks :)
<NCommander> I probably won't get it today, I need to get these benchmarks done
#ubuntu-arm 2009-02-27
<Guest96848> hello
<EL> any body home
<EL> I got a problem when I follow the instructions on the web "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM"
<EL> When I start QEMU-ARM , I can't input correctly.
<EL> press A key, show 'u'
<EL> press J key, show 'Enter'
<EL> Any suggestion?
<lool> EL: It might default to US keymap until you setup the console properly
<EL> Thanks your answer
<EL> But my keyboard should be US keymap.
<lool> Then no idea; that's weird; is this under the linux console (in the the vm) or under Xorg?
<EL> linux console
<EL> I think it may cause by QEMU
<EL> I use 0.9.1 version of QEMU
<lool> You could try passing an explicit -k us, but it works fine here usually
<lool> Ah you're not using Ubuntu's
<lool> We have 0.9.1+svn20081112-1ubuntu1 in Ubuntu ATM
<EL> ^^
<EL> I don't
<EL> Where can I download it?
<lool> It's likely to be your qemu indeed
<lool> Are you running Ubuntu?
<EL> I think so
<EL> ya
<lool> Which version?
<EL> 0810
<EL> use VMWare
<EL> ha~
<lool> Eh
<EL> WinXP -> VMWare -> ubuntu -> QEMU -> arm-linux
<EL> It's my test platform
<lool> Unfortunately, we don't have a newer qemu for Ubuntu 8.10 in the "backports", you could ask for a backport, try to build one yourself, try using the 9.04 version, or build qemu manually
<EL> ok
<lool> If you don't care to create an unstable VM, you could also install 9.04 in a new vmware vm and see whether its qemu helps
<EL> Thank you very much
<lool> But 9.04 isn't stable yet
<EL> see
<EL> Are you a staff of ubuntu?
<EL> I never build deb from source. Any suggection?
<lool> EL: There are indications on how to achieve that in the wiki
<lool> EL: Check e.g. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpdatingADeb
<EL> Thank you again :)
<EL> hello ogra
<EL> I had send a mail to you for a problem I met.
<EL> And I got some suggection here.
<EL> I can't rebuild QEMU from "http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/universe/q/qemu/qemu_0.9.1+svn20081112.orig.tar.gz"
<EL> debuild don't work
<EL> any suggection?
<lool> EL: The actual error would help
<EL> It say: cannot find readable debian/changelog anywhere!
<EL> Are you in the source code tree?
<lool> So are you in the source tree?
<lool> You need the full Debian source, not just the .tar.gz
<EL> ok
<lool> EL: dget -x http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/universe/q/qemu/qemu_0.9.1+svn20081112-1ubuntu1.dsc
<lool> haha the DB9 gender changers I received are "USA PATENT 5199906"
<lool> 9 straight wires, wow, that certainly deserves a patent
<ogra> mine is made in china ... no patent print on it :)
<ogra> i actually didnt recognize that yet, i thought it has to be printed on all of them
 * ogra joked about the gender changing patent a decade ago already when he first recognized that print 
<ogra> ah, seems ports.u.c is on track again, finally the alpha images show up there
<EL> Sorry, another question: how to apply XXX.diff to XXX.orig
<EL> I got two files from "dget -x http://port...."
<lool> EL: dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
 * ogra points at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete ... might be helpful to read that
<EL> ok
<EL> thanks
 * Stskeeps ponders idly why bootchart package isn't seperated into bootchart data gathering and pretty chart generation
<Stskeeps> (i really don't want to install a jre to get a bootchart.)
<ogra> ask Keybuk (in #ubuntu-devel)
<ian_brasil> Stskeeps: http://code.google.com/p/pybootchartgui/
<lool> Stskeeps: It should really be split, I know of other scripts (e.g. ubootchart) which generate compatible data and would like to depend on the generation side
<Stskeeps> ian_brasil: ah, i'm interested in the data gathering, generation i can do on faster machines :P
<ogra> Stskeeps, if you want Keybuk to react its very clever to include some info in your ping ;)
<Stskeeps> hehe
#ubuntu-arm 2009-02-28
<ka6sox-laptop> perhaps we will see ubuntu on a SheevaPlug?
#ubuntu-arm 2009-03-01
<ian_brasil> i am trying to install ubuntu-mid in an arm qemu but i get broken packages
<ian_brasil> just wondered if this was known about?
<EL_tw> test
<EL_tw> Hello all
<EL_tw> I got a question about ubuntu running in a arm platform
<EL_tw> Is it's performance ok when ubuntu running in Ti OMAP?
<EL_tw> 3430
<EL_tw> Basically, I want to know the status about ubuntu on a arm platform.
<EL_tw> "Debian ARMel TODO" seems answer my question. :)
<Stskeeps> hmm. ubuntu arm is compiled with -thumb is it not?
<EL_tw> I have no idea about that
<[g2]> rwhitby: I'm surprised to find you here :)
<[g2]> suihkulokki: I this those are called 'sheeva' gym exercises to make ARM stronger, faster, better :)
<suihkulokki> [g2]: are you sure it's not for "making ARM moving forward faster" ;)
<[g2]> suihkulokki: time will tell :)
<ka6sox-laptop> hopefully it makes it better!
<[g2]> hey ka6sox-laptop :)
<ka6sox-laptop> howdy [g2] good to see ya.
<[g2]> likewise
<ka6sox-laptop> SPlug ought to be a fascinating toy.
<ali1234> hi
<ali1234> last night i got pretty far installing this on my htc wizard
<Stskeeps> what problems did you run into?
<ali1234> only problems relating to my kernel
<Stskeeps> ah - 64mb ram seems a bit low though
<ali1234> basically it got to 30% of the way through installing the base system then it tried to go to into low power mode or something, and there was a kernel panic
<Stskeeps> how's the hw support?
<ali1234> i'm working on hw support with the linwizard project
<ali1234> we actually have almost everything working except wifi
<Stskeeps> *nood*
<Stskeeps> -o
<ali1234> oh and sound... sound is the major thing we miss... we can make phone calls, you just can't hear the other end, and they can't hear you :/
<lool> Stskeeps: Yes, it's built with Thumb; armv5t actually
<Stskeeps> k, good
#ubuntu-arm 2010-03-01
<watson540> hi I have a smartq v7 arm machine, it's imported into the us and it came with ubuntu arm installed, my issue is that the repo's for the installed version are in china...im sure there is a mirrror in the us though?
<persia> There probably isn't, actually.
<persia> ports.ubuntu.com has very few mirrors (and I don't know if they are well identified).
<persia> Also, do be careful with upgrades of that device.  I think it won't work with lucid, and I'm unsure if it works with karmic.
<persia> I'm also completely unaware of which packages got patched how to make it work : I don't remember seeing patch submissions back to Ubuntu from the SmartQN pre-install derivative.
<watson540> right it seems like they have blocked certain pkgs by default through apt as well
<watson540> though its been so long since i used a debian or derivative im mainoly gentoo
<watson540> but things like the proprietarily coded vlc to take advantae of hdmi and the hardware encoder to do 1080p...stuff like that i dont think i want to upgrade
<watson540> :)
<watson540> was actually hoping to either put gentoo on it or put my customized ubuntu on there
<watson540> used ubuntu before debian years ago so i think i remember enough..but where to start..
<persia> /etc/lsb-release ought to tell you the base Ubuntu that they started from.
<persia> And you should be able to point at the rthe apprpriate release at ports.ubuntu.com to get more packages (if the mirror is incomplete, or if bandwidth is better to p.u.c)
<persia> Once you have that, you can probably install/uninstall packages as you like to tweak your install.
<lifeless> lsb_release -a and/or lsb_release -d
<lifeless> interfaces, ftw
<persia> -r is likely to be more useful.  I do wish there was a better way to enforce updates for derivatives.
<lifeless> shotguns?
<persia> Something with lower transportation costs would be nice.
<persia> Seems that the Netwalker has the same issue that the OS vendor didn't change the values.
<Ox83> hmmm. playing with rootstock on karmic. seems to hang at "Extracting zlib1g..." after executing "sudo project-rootstock/rootstock --fqdn ubuntu --login ubuntu --password ubuntu --notarball --imagesize 3G"
<Ox83> zlib1g and *-dev are installed. known issues...?
<persia> There was some discussion about it in http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/26/#ubuntu-arm.txt
<Ox83> persia: thanks, yes i did see that. just wondering if the solution is still the same? ogra if you are around... any thoughts to share?
 * persia thinks it's very early in the morning there, and response may be delayed.
<Ox83> lol. not a pressing issue. :D thanks persia... is that where you are geogrphically?
<persia> No, it's late afternoon for me.
<Ox83> bedtime for me. will check in manana. night!
<lool> syadnom: Reason is performance
<lool> syadnom: the distro targets netbooks, and potentially desktops and mids
<lool> not older hardware
<lool> the future is armv7 devices everywhere, and we want to optimize for that
<persia> Well, the medium-term future.
<persia> ARMv8 will come someday.
<persia> But ARMv7 is current, and will last longer than prior generations.
<lool> persia: True, let's start building for v8
<persia> lool: Can we wait until the next release of Ubuntu?  I'd rather have at least one release available for each instruction set.
<ogra> lool, i assume your mono patch doesnt fix the assembly installation yet, right ?
<lool> ogra: it hangs instead of crashing
<ogra> well, thats the karmic behavior
<lool> Really?
<ogra> yes, in qemu-user it always hung
<ogra> thats why rootstock uses qemu-system for the second stage still
<ogra> its my only blocker to switching rootstock to use a chroot from start to end
<lool> Apparently, it might be a non-trivial boehm-gc issue
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i was told so in karmic already
<ogra> (i think suihkulokki said it back then)
<lool> ogra: Is there a bug open about it?
<ogra> i dont think so
 * ogra checks
<Rishi1> Hi
<Rishi1> Can somebody tell me whether I can install Ubuntu 9.04 on my Arm based Nokia N810
<ogra> lool, not against mono at least
<ogra> Rishi1, only if you have your own kernel and bootloader
<ogra> Rishi1, for userspace creation you can just use rootstock (see RootfsFromScratch wikipage)
<lool> Rishi1: We don't provide a kernel for it, but the userspace of Ubuntu releases 9.10 and earlier would work
<ogra> lool, should i file against qemu or mono ?
<lool> ogra: it's a qemu bug
<lool> It works unders system emulation
<ogra> well, but is boehm gc supposed to work with syscall translation ? :)
<lool> qemu is supposed to emulate whatever is needed
<lool> It might expose a boehm-gc bug, but I find that unlikely
<lool> Anyway, speculation wont lead anywhere here
<ogra> hmm, looking at the mono documentation there seems to be an alternative to boaem
<ogra> *boehm
<ogra> "A new generational, precise and compacting GC is being developed and is currently available from SVN releases of Mono."
<ogra> http://www.mono-project.com/Compacting_GC
<Rishi1> I have installed Mer on it.. but now Im not able to connect my PenDrive to it
<ogra> "The code is still experimental and should not be used in any kind of production environment."
<ogra> :(
<Rishi1> Mer is I guess a ubuntu for ARM.. correct me if Im wrng
<lool> Hmm it's based on Ubuntu sources and built for ARM
<ogra> oh, nice
<ogra> i filed bug 530000
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 530000 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "mono assembly installation under qemu-arm-static hangs (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530000
<ogra> nice round number :)
<ogra> lool, ^^^
<persia> Rishi1: Mer is downstream from Ubuntu (as Ubuntu is downstream from Debian).  It isn't Ubuntu for arm (that's just Ubuntu), but it is based on Ubuntu and compiled for arm.
<Rishi1> ok
<Rishi1> Thnx for info
<Rishi1> How could I enable usb host mode in Mer ??
<persia> Were the folk in #mer unable to help you?
<persia> I have a feeling that it's a kernel-specific hack, and I'm not sure we have software that does that (although I could be wrong).
 * persia would like to help, but has no idea where to start
<ogra> lool, that gmane link doesnt open for me
<Rishi1> persia: #mer people are not responding... It must be a simple trick.. In Maemo it was so easy.. Mer is a more advanced than Maemo .. but Im not able to find any clue regarding it
<Rishi1> In Mer it has a provision that One can connect USB as ethernet ..
 * ogra takes a break
<lool> ogra: works for me
<ogra> weird
<rbelem> hi ogra
<ogra> hey
<rbelem> ogra, is it possible to store two different magic number for the same platform in /usr/share/binfmts/qemu-arm? :-)
<ogra> i dont think so
<rbelem> :-/
<ogra> just create a second binfmt hook
<rbelem> ogra, cool! i will figure out how to do that
<ogra> cp /usr/share/binfmts/qemu-arm /usr/share/binfmts/qemu-my-personal-binfmt
<rbelem> thanks ogra
<ogra> edit that and do the binfmt-support magic
<rbelem> ogra, and how it will load both?
<ogra> (see the qemu-static-user postinst for what to do)
<rbelem> cool
<ogra> it will load one or the other
<ogra> based on your magic number
<rbelem> ogra, and how do you get this magic number?
<rbelem> i was looking for the magic binary but i did not find
<rbelem> i just got a different output with the file cmd
<rbelem> but i did not figure out how to get that strange string
<persia> rbelem: Why do you need to do this?
 * persia expects to learn bundles
<rbelem> ehhehe
<rbelem> persia, i just got a different file cmd output
<rbelem> persia, and the binary is not running
<rbelem> ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV
<rbelem> is it an i386?
<persia> That's *supposed* to run under qemu-arm-static, or are you doing binfmt for 32-bit executables?
<rbelem> i think it is
<rbelem> it runs on my device
<persia> Odd.
<rbelem> :-/
<ogra>  Intel 80386 is definately an x86 binary
<ogra> qemu-arm-static cant run that but if your host is x86 it will just run nativelyx
<persia> Doesn't mean that the device in question isn't using qemu-static-80386 to run it :)
<ogra> if someone builds qemu-static-80386 :)
<ogra> i dont think we do in ubuntu :)
<ogra> given that qemu only builds on x86 based arches atm
<rbelem> hum... i will check it
<ogra> hmm, what is myigep.com ?
<ogra> ah, omap3530 boards
<ogra> wow, thats cute
<ogra> http://www.igep-platform.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=55
<ogra> that set of peripherials is awesome for $145
<zumbi> what do you use for uImage debian package creation? it seems make-kpkg does not support uImage. :-/
<plars> zumbi: uboot-mkimage
<plars> zumbi: well, for kernel/initrd etc
<zumbi> plars: yes, kernel/initrd is what i look for, does it replaces make-kpkg? or you use that afterwards?
<zumbi> nice, uboot-mkimage - generate kernel image for U-Boot :-)
<armin76> zumbi: fail!
<Ox83> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM states: Ubuntu jaunty targets the ARM EABI, with an expectation of minimum compliance with the ARMv5t instruction set.
<Ox83> my question is: can i compile to armv5t target from karmic?
<lool> Ox83: Yes
<lool> Ox83: But all libs are built for armv6 + vfp in karmic
<lool> So if you build a static binary which links to any lib, it might have some v6 + vfp instructions in it
<Ox83> hmmm. any workarounds to avoid that?
<Ox83> :D
<roxfan> build your own libs
<armin76> lol
<Ox83> heh. well... any way to emulate jaunty envt to avoid 1) building libs from scratch and 2) ending up with armv6 libs?
<Ox83> short answer: install jaunty. any others?
<plars> build under chroot?
<persia> Ox83: Sticking with Jaunty is really the only option if you need to stay with ARMv5
<Ox83> ok. so a dual boot install of jaunty is on its way.
<Ox83> btw: anyone try a jaunty build for arm5 system? any pros cons to that vs. deb?
<persia> Ox83: I run a jaunty system with some extra backports.  It's a bit faster for some stuff than Debian, if you have the right hardware.  There are more bugs than in Debian.  Unless you anticipate an upgrade path, or need vendor support on a preinstall, I'd recommend Debian for ARMv5 systems.
<persia> (vendor support being available for stuff like SheevaPlug, SmartQ5, etc.)
<Ox83> sorry to make you repeat yourself persia. : /
<persia> Ox83: No worries.  Probably 50-60% of my IRC traffic is duplicate to my previous statements :)
<Ox83> but i am grateful for the input. i have been playing with OE to get images for this machine working, but with varied luck. it is nice to have (some) options :D
<persia> Which machine again?
<Ox83> zaurus sl-5600
<persia> Oh, right.  I remember now.  Yeah, even if you jam jaunty on that, you'll likely not be happy with the results.
<persia> The lxde stack didn't get happy until karmic, and what GUI stacks are in jaunty weren't tested at that resolution.
<Ox83> heh. wisdom. thank you. will play with deb then (another repeat sry).
<persia> With luck, someone will release a replacement device that can run future code.  The form-factor seems to have become unpopular (well, except for the RAON Digital products).
#ubuntu-arm 2010-03-02
<twb> persia: mainly I wanted an arm netbook for the battery life, and so I had an excuse to play with arm
<persia> Would you accept a 5" Netbook with a 7-8 hour battery life?
<twb> But I've basically been sold on the new AMD64 Atom that came out in December, which has 8 to 10 hours.
<persia> What's the mass of a shipping product?  At least for me, grams matter more than architecture.
<twb> persia: my netbook's primary job is to connect to an external monitor and keyboard, and run Emacs and SSH to connect to "real" computers (i.e. stuff in the racks) for sysadmin work and for writing code.
<twb> It's secondary role is to let me do the same stuff while I'm not at my desk, e.g. when I'm at a friend's place or on a bus.
<persia> Well, if you're willing to run Lucid, you can use a USB dock with an arbitrary device to take care of the primary job.
<persia> The secondary role becomes more interesting: and then it's a matter of size/mass/time
<twb> It'll run Debian, not Ubuntu.  Sorry.
<persia> Well, I hope to find time to get displaylink working for squeeze, but I'm not sure I'll finish testing prior to freeze.  It will definitely be in squeeze+1.
<persia> But then this isn't the right channel anymore :)
<twb> Yeah, I figured I'd just stick my head in to hear what you had to say re. the netwalker
<persia> I'm happy with mine, so I tell people who want ARM netbooks that there is one currently in retail and they should go buy it.
<persia> I'm not convinced that lots of others will appear in retail if the first one doesn't sell so well.
<twb> What was it retailing going?
<twb> What was it retailing *for?
<persia> EPARSE
<twb> (Edited out the wrong word.)
<persia> Depends on where you get it.  Somthing like 500 AUD
<persia> +shipping / etc.
<twb> Blergh.  If it was AUD300 I'd be more interested.
<DanaG> wait, arm netboook where? the touchbook?
<persia> Yeah well.  This is why the rest of the world has to wait a couple years for Japanese electronics :)
<persia> DanaG: The NetWalker
<twb> DanaG: we're talking about the Sharp Netwalker
<twb> DanaG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netwalker
<DanaG> ah.
<persia> Nice little box.  I find the positioning of the "A" key a bit frustrating, but otherwise very usable.
<persia> Sturdy too: I've watched it bounce down a flight of concrete&steel stairs, and dropped it from ~3.5 meters a few times onto hardwood.  I don't recommend doing this, but mine still works.
<DanaG> hmm, does it do mobile broadband?
<DanaG> (not that I have a data plan...)
<persia> DanaG: It's advertised as doing so with a USB dongle.  Having split my case open, I *think* there's enough space to wedge one inside, but it's a bit of a hack.
<persia> (plus you'd be down to one USB port)
<DanaG> bah, I'd want mini-pcie.... and you could use it for gps, while you were at it anyway.
<persia> Finding PCI or PCIe on ARM boards is *hard*.  I have a collection of ARM devices, but only one of them has PCI, and I'm not convinced it isn't a hack like PCI-over-USB on the boards.
<persia> The bus usually isn't there at all.
<twb> You should be able to work it out by checking if the chipsets on the board implement pcie at all
<persia> I'm pretty sure the i.MX51 series doesn't.
<twb> Yeah
<DanaG> Erm, most "Mini-PCIe" WWAN devices are really USB-based.
<DanaG> And most "Mini-PCIe" SSDs abuse mini-pcie pins for SATA or PATA.
<persia> Sure, but if the bus isn't present, you can't expect the pinout to be available to be abused.
<persia> At least for the Eee hacks, stripping the case from a USB dongle and sticking it internal seemed a popular solution.
<twb> Is mini-pcie that crufty mishmash of pcie and cardbus?
<persia> twb: Yes.
<twb> Righto
<persia> Not quite as confusing as XpressCard, but close :)
<DanaG> Wrongo.
<DanaG> Mini-PCIe is the internal slot -- equivalent of mini-PCI.
<persia> Please share?
<DanaG> ExpressCard is the PCIe equivalent of CardBus.
<DanaG> Both mini-PCIe and ExpressCard happen to offer both USB and PCIe interfaces in the standard, though.
<twb> Sorry, I got confused.
<persia> OK.  So mini-PCIe is USB+PCIe and ExpressCard is CardBus+PCIe+USB ?
<DanaG> nope, ExpressCard is just hotpluggable PCIe+USB in a cardbus-ish shape.
<Martyn> yep
<Martyn> convenient too
<persia> So the old CardBus ATA hacks don't work?
<Martyn> although the cardbus-like connector puts some serious constraints on the types of peripherals you can create
<DanaG> And ExpressCard 54mm actually offers LESS space than cardbus.
<persia> Martyn: Bandwidth excepted, how?
<Martyn> persia : Mini-PCIe can handle larger current draw
<persia> Aha!  The EeePC has a *special* *custom* miniPCIe that is PCIe+USB+SATA
<Martyn> it's designed for it
<twb> persia: which eee is that?  I'll avoid it.
<Martyn> Which pins do they overload to get SATA?
<persia> Martyn: That makes sense.
<persia> http://beta.ivancover.com/wiki/index.php/Eee_PC_Research is cited in wikipedia as the reference for the odd custom port.
<DanaG> And a bummer with HP: they whitelist stuff, so you can't use the wwan usb-only slot for anything but HP wwan module.
<Martyn> must be pins 51,49,47,45,43,41,39,37
<Martyn> those are "reserved"
<persia> DanaG: But seriously, you shouldn't worry about PCIe if looking for an ARM netbook.  It's unlikely to be implemented in most solutions (I would expect PCIe to only be exposed for "server" type devices (which might include plug-servers and NAS boxes).
<Martyn> persia : *cough*  *COUGH*
 * Martyn can't say .. but *COOOOOOOUUUGH*
<Martyn> (in fact, most people implementing cortex-A9's are implementing Synopsys' PCIe)
<persia> Martyn: Really?  That's very encouraging.
<DanaG> I saw somebody on #radeon talking about sticking a Radeon on Marvell ARM thingy.
<Martyn> DanaG : most manufacturers of multicore ARM solutions are looking at PowerVR
<Martyn> although nVidia is getting hot 'n heavy with Tegra2
<persia> Does PowerVR have open-source drivers yet?
<DanaG> Good luck getting open drivers for that, though.  =Ã¾
<Martyn> DanaG : Open drivers now exist
<persia> Oh excellent!
<Martyn> DanaG : They went through the trouble of creating an ABI + shim just like nVidia
<Martyn> so they can publish a binary driver, and open source (linux) solutions only have to implement the shim
<DanaG> ah, though, that's not entirely open.
<Martyn> Sure, but open drivers DO exist, just not optimized, nor with great 3D accel
<DanaG> random link: http://www.techeye.net/software/amd-and-nvidia-bitchfight-over-open-source-support
<persia> A shim solution is sufficient to start.
<DanaG> ah.
<persia> A parallel to the various more-open driver can wait.
<DanaG> My criterion for "good" 3D is "can run compiz".
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<Martyn> hell, there are some OPEN SOURCE drivers that can't run compiz
<Martyn> for well supported cards (points at nouveau)
<persia> Lots of them.
<persia> nouveau can run compiz for some cards.
<Martyn> in fact, I can't think of any that can support the full compiz requirements
<Martyn> closed source shims do so pretty well
<persia> They have their own problems
<DanaG> check the last comment on that thread... that's my post.
<Martyn> <-- is _not_ biased towards open source.
 * persia has a shim-melted card
<DanaG> What I call bad: when your binary drivers fail to do anything but segfault the X server -- and have been broken in that way for 2 years.
<persia> But shims are sufficiently free to ship, which is the key bit.
<persia> DanaG: That's usually a case of full binary drivers, rather than shims.
<DanaG> And they've "updated it to support new x servers"  -- but I say, s/support/segfault/
<DanaG> =Ã¾
<DanaG> anyway, how well does the SGX in beagleboard work?
<DanaG> Oh, and OpenGL ES (OpenGL on bare console?) seems like 'black voodoo magic' to me.
<twb> Give me a Matrox GPU any day :-)
<Martyn> DanaG : That's a pretty good description :)
<Martyn> OpenGL ES uses the framebuffer as the base canvas
<Martyn> it's not THAT much voodoo
<Martyn> but it's hard to grok
<persia> StevenK: So, I was just reviewing the actions from last week's meeting, and it appears you and I were supposed to strip armel down to three flavours : *-netbook and server.  Did you already do that?  Can I help somehow?
<Guest62340> Hi
<persia> hey
<Guest62340>  I have installed Mer on my N810
<persia> Guest62340: OK.
<StevenK> persia: I didn't, no ...
<persia> StevenK: OK.  Can I help?
 * StevenK peers at antimony
<ogra> how are netbook and server *three* flavours ?
<persia> ogra: *-netbook
<persia> kubuntu-netbook and ubuntu-netbook
<ogra> ah
<StevenK> Which are currently there.
 * ogra still sees no point in kubuntu building as long as kde isnt installable
<StevenK> persia: Right, I think it's done, if you want to check
<persia> Right.  We want to not have ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop, and ubuntustudio-*
<persia> StevenK: I don't know how to check, but if you think it's done, I'll trust you.
<StevenK> persia: Dig through cdimage.u.c and see if armel images appear where they shouldn't.
<persia> That I can do :)
<StevenK> Or if they don't appear where they should
<persia> I don't see any ubuntu-server images at all :(
<persia> Oh, just build failures.  Nevermind.
<StevenK> How do they fail?
<persia> DIdn't check that.
<persia> But it's for all architectures for the 0301 build
<persia> kubuntu-desktop is current on armel
<persia> (and shouldn't be)
<persia> err, kubuntu-desktop-live (sorry)
<persia> In summary, kubuntu-desktop-live needs to go, and ubuntu-server-alternate needs love.
<StevenK> I can see kubuntu desktop in the cronscripts
<StevenK> NCommander: ^
<persia> What do you seek?
<persia> I can produce logs from #kubuntu-devel that agree it doesn't belong there
<persia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/23/#kubuntu-devel.txt 14:09 through 14:14
<ogra> lool,      if [ "$DIST" = "jaunty" ];then
<ogra>          VMCPU=""
<ogra>      fi
<persia> Um, why?
<persia> Shouldn't it detect current compilation options or something?
<StevenK> persia: Right, fixing crontab, then
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.
<StevenK> persia: Fixed, and old images purged
<persia> StevenK: Excellent!  Now we have good news to report *and* more space on cdimage for the next hungry flavour.
<StevenK> persia: Build log for swerver?
 * persia gets confused
<persia> Aha!  The issue was that the images were *currently building* when I last looked.  They were successful and are now published.
<StevenK> Right, so nothing more to do
<StevenK> We win, are manly men, etc, etc
 * persia waves the torch of victory and ignores the sounds of looting and pillaging
<ogra> sooo ...
<ogra> what do you guys think about adding a date -s "<date of image build>" to casper for armel ?
<persia> Why would such a change be architecture-specific?
<persia> I like the idea, but I don't see the point of making it arch-specific at all.
<ogra> because it bugs us most
<ogra> but yeah, can be generic
<persia> No, it really doesn't.
<persia> It bugs me *lots* but mostly for i386 images.
<ogra> well, PC BIOS batteies are less often broken than having boards that dont set the time on first boot
<persia> Oh, you're not talking about the thing that irritates me at all :)
<persia> But anyway, yeah, I don't see any issues with it, and don't think it ought be arch-specific.
<persia> We know it's at *least* that date.
<ogra> right
<lool> ogra: Are you pinging me about the VMCPU thing?
<ogra> lool, yeah, i did, but i gathered its not needed if we use the netinst kernel for all releases
<lool> ogra: Note that I only *flipped* the logic to deal with karmic +
<lool> See r30.1.1
<ogra> i dropped all release specific kernel stuff now and default to not use devtmpfs in rootstock
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/386913/
<lool> I changed the logic which only worked for jaunty and karmic to work for jaunty and any release
<ogra> that shpould make it work with the lucid kernel everywhere
<lool> But we should simply set Cortex-A8 ALL the time
<ogra> right, thats what i do now
<ogra> using only the netinst kernel
<lool> Once the binaries are new-ed, we should have initrd support in that kernel as well -- I hope
<ogra> well, doesnt bother me in rootstock atm :)
<ogra> its unlikely i'll use an initrd there
<ogra> though i could generate one during build if --keepimage is set for people wanting to use one with their VM
<ogra> grrr
<ogra> evolution still out of sync ... i cant do testbuilds
<persia> Just give up on the concept of email.  Adds more time to your day and you never have sync failures :)
<ogra> persia, well, then someone needs to fix the metapackages :P
<persia> Hrm?
<ogra> its not installable atjm
<ogra> *atm
<persia> Oh, right.  I misunderstoof.
 * ogra takes a break
 * StevenK throws evolution back to the wolv^Wbuildds
<twb> And I thought *emacs* would stress a 1GHz arm...
<suihkulokki> twb: building vim takes longer than building emacs ;)
<twb> Emacs is "only" eight megabytes and constantly swapping :P
<twb> Whereas eclipse is more like eight HUNDRED
<jussi01> hi all, http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/arm says the iMX51 is supported, but will it run on an iMX31?
<ogra> nope
<jussi01> aww...
<ogra> the kernel on these images is specifically built for a certain board
<jussi01> and hi ogra! :D
<ogra> hi :)
<jussi01> ogra: right.
<ogra> ****************** Reminder mobile team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 3min ***********************
<twb> We aren't all on 132-character terminals, you know :P
<ogra> lol, sorry
<ogra> i'll make sure next week its 80chars :)
<twb> 80 less your nick, etc.
<persia> Impossible to know how much our clients prefix, etc.
<twb> But actually my framebuffer is something like 300x120
<persia> Jst dropping the *s would probably work
<ogra> ah, come on, get a wider screen :) its not like i have a long nick :)
<twb> Aren't the **s a dumb way to use /notice ?
<ogra> yeah, i'm lazy
<twb> Hmm, didn't work: 00:03 /notice #ubuntu-arm Yow!  Film at 11!
<twb> Oops, I'd better wrap up before security come to hassle me again
 * persia doesn't tend to like arbitrary /notice
<persia> (and would go fiddle flags if people started using it much)
<twb> persia: using it judiciously is better than it being totally unused except by the freenode devs
<twb> (IMO)
<persia> I guess.  I just don't really like it.
<|nfecteD> anyone know how i can limit how much RAM the beagleboard has avalible... it fails horribly right now when i try to compile larger programs
<persia> |nfecteD: You mean limit how much memory is available to the compilation process?
<|nfecteD> yeah
<persia> The solution I typically use in memory limited situations is swap, but swap-over-USB gets painful quick.
<|nfecteD> I know there was a file or something in angstrom where i could change a value from unlimited to something else and it worked :/
<persia> You can try playing with `ulimit -v` but it may just make the compiler crash more quickly (depending on the operation)
<|nfecteD> USB swap it is then
<|nfecteD> i need a bigger SD card
<persia> swap-on-sd is a recipe for buying new SD cards :)
<|nfecteD> yeah
<|nfecteD> same goes for USB sticks i guess
<persia> But not for old-style USB rotary disks :)
<|nfecteD> i only need to use "swapon /dev/sda" right?
<|nfecteD> (after i format ofcourse)
<persia> Soemthing like that.  I always put stuff in /etc/fstab and use swapon -a when it's available.
<persia> Where "format" means "run mkswap", yes :)
<|nfecteD> good thing you know what i mean
 * |nfecteD throws 2gigs of swap at the compiler
<|nfecteD> fill that up!
<|nfecteD> (bastard...)
<persia> Build boost :)
<persia> (no not really : boost is best built either 1) when really necessary or 2) when one wants to exercise high memory-pressue situations)
<|nfecteD> if i could find my USB HDD i'd have 30GB swap!
<|nfecteD> SUPER SWAP POWER!
<|nfecteD> anyway... isn't there supposed to be some way to set the CPU frequenzy while im in ubuntu?
<dyfet> you mean like cpufrequtils?
<|nfecteD> i guess
<dyfet> I recall using those on debian...
<|nfecteD> since i have the ub3rl33t C4 version that can "safely" be clocked to 720mhz
<|nfecteD> i might as well use it sometimes
<roxfan> o.o http://www.keil.com/ds5/
<|nfecteD> god damnit!Â¤!Â¤!Â¤
 * |nfecteD curses and swears at the snes9x sourcecode
<|nfecteD> boo
<|nfecteD> i don't have a cpufreq driver
<persia> !ohmy
<ubot4> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
 * |nfecteD sits in the corner
<persia> heh :)
<persia> Just try to say #('$& instead or something :)
<persia> Not much to self-censor, but in addition to other stuff, it keeps our logs free from nanny-filter blocking.
<|nfecteD> yeah
#ubuntu-arm 2010-03-03
<napster> Can I use ubuntu on http://www.hawkboard.org/ ?
<ogra> napster, thats ARM9 so i fear only jaunty will work on it (if you have a kernel and bootloader, see the RootfsFromScratch wikipage)
<napster> ogra, I've karmic koala. I'm new to embedded linux. Can you spare a few moments for me?
<ogra> well, ubuntu essentially doesnt do anything in the embedded area (yet)
<ogra> the armel port is like any other ubuntu
<napster> ogra, You know the hawkboard?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but i looked at the tech specs on the page you pointed me to
<napster> ogra, OK, Can I ask you a few question?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> http://blog.binaerwelt.com/2010/02/ubuntu-on-the-hawkboard/ seems to have a guide for ubuntu on that device btw
<napster> Can I install the arm port on a USB stick and boot from it?
<napster> ogra, I already read it :(
<ogra> sure
<ogra> make sure your kernel commandline points to the USB key
<ogra> you will likely need to have kernel and uboot on SD
<napster> ogra, Sd card?
<ogra> well, or whatever else the board boots from
<ogra> usually such boards support booting from SD so bootloader and kernel live on the card
<napster> Can I install it to a USB card, from my laptop?
<ogra> with rootstock you can extract the tarball to usb from any machine you like :)
<napster> ogra, Do I need any extra softwares for the purpose?
<ogra> your first step should be to find out how exactly your bopard boots though ... i.e. where do kernel and bootloader live
<napster> ogra, OK
<ogra> apart from rootstock and a machine that knows how to extract a tarball to a USB key you shouldnt need anything else
<ogra> probably a serial port to access the bootloader
<napster> ogra, ok
<napster> ogra, I'll update you soon about it. Where are you from?
<ogra> gernamy
<ogra> heh
<ogra> germany
<napster> I need your help anyway. Can you?
<ogra> just ask your questions here if you have any
<napster> Hope you will be here... Thanks for your help... :)
 * ogra is here all day during european business hours
<napster> ;)
<ogra> i.e. likely for another 3-4h today
<napster> ok
<ogra> bah
<ogra> suddenly installing the netbook task works in qemu but still fails in rootstock
 * ogra sighs ... i'm running out of ideas how to debug that
<Martyn> Do we have a system image from one of the buildd's?
<Martyn> ojn: Are you back in Austin?
<ojn> Martyn: I am. Should I swing by tomorrow?
<Martyn> I could use the debug cable, yeah.  Want to come to the austin hackerspace movie night?
<Martyn> www.austinhackerspace.org/events
<ojn> Sorry, today/tonight isn't a good match for me. And that seems to be all the way down in south austin. :)
<Martyn> The movie night -is- tomorrow
<Martyn> 7pm-midnight :)
<Martyn> I'm also poking around here in the North today though.  Maybe meet up after work?
<|nfecteD> anyone have any idea why im not getting any picture or sound in snes9x-gtk on my beagleboard?
<|nfecteD> It loads the rom and the CPU usage goes to 100% but it just sits there
<|nfecteD> i can load another rom and configure stuff so it doesn't lock up
<|nfecteD> can it be because snes9x-gtk doesn't like/work with 16bit color?
<Martyn> UGH .. I hate Time Warner sometimes
<Martyn> Office lost connectivity
<Martyn> ojn, you still online?
#ubuntu-arm 2010-03-04
<ogra> lool, what kind of images do you usually use with qemu ? (/me is till trying to find out why big task installs hang)
<ogra> *still
<ogra> i wonder if converting to qcow2 before switching to the VM gains me anything wrt stability
<persia> Not really.  qcow2 just saves space.
<persia> Assuming no bugs in the converter, it's a no-op, and if the converter is buggy, it's less stable (the converter isn't that buggy)
<wao> oh hai
<wao> what is actually available arm smartbooks?
<wao> pegatron neo seems is far away from open sale.
<persia> The Sharp Netwalker is the only one I know to be on the market today.
<wao> and touchbook one, i just forget on it
<wao> just touchbook from alwaysinovating
<lool> ogra: I'm using ext4
<lool> On real files provisioned for the full space
<ogra> lool, i mean the underlying format
<lool> i.e 2 GB of zeroes in a file
<persia> touchbook from alwaysinnovating is shipping now?
<ogra> so raw with qemu-img
<lool> Yes
<ogra> or dd
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> rootstock uses qemu-img too ... but gets that hang :/
<lool> I'm using dd, but I don't think that makes any difference
<ogra> the diff between the old qemu that workeed and todays which doent work for me installing bigger tasks has disk handling changes
<lool> You can try stracing or gdbing qemu-system
<ogra> *doesnt
<lool> I fixed the missing symbols in recent uploads, so the ddeb has them
<ogra> i tried stracing, outside it only gives me clock accesses
<wao> persia: well, my friend has one since.. november? but that have so long delays at shipping :l
<lool> That's probably too late then
<ogra> inside, actually stracing apt doesnt get me anything wrong
<wao> *they
<lool> ogra: Try bisecting using the upstream qemu-kvm.git if you can reproduce easily
<ogra> lool, i can, it reliably hangs at unpacking iso-codes if i install ubuntu-netbook^
<ogra> no matter if its rootstock or plain qemu-system-arm
<persia> wao: Thanks.  I'll add it to my list of available hardware.
<ogra> i initially thought its the way rootstock initializes the system ... i.e. that i miss something ... but using it plain does get me the same hang
<wao> persia: well these day at cebit nowthing comes out :( just some tablets
<persia> I only know of AlwaysInnovating Touchbook, Sharp Netwalker, Genesi Efika MX.  I'd love to hear of more stuff.
<wao> something from mobinova was released
<wao> at some congress in taipei
<ogra> lool, well, the only thing i see (or asac did yesterday when he bisected out of boredom) is http://paste.ubuntu.com/387762/
<ogra> which made me think it might be an image thing
<ogra> or I/O to the image
<lool> ogra: Send a mail to the qemu-devel list Cc:ing the author of the problematic patch?
<persia> wao: The mobinnova elan?  Announced but not shipping as far as I can tell.
<ogra> well, i'm not sure its the problematic one ... especially since you dont see any issues
<ogra> which confuses me
<wao> persia: well, they announced price tag, that's all
<persia> wao: Yeah.  I like to wait until I know people can buy things before recommending them :)
<persia> I prefer to know someone who has one who can tell me if they like it, and in which ways it's inferior.
<lool> ogra: I'm not doing full installs either
<ogra> ah
<lool> ogra: and it might appear due to e.g. your super-fast SSD host disk
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i would expect to see anything in the logs
<ogra> but thats an intresting theory, i'll try to build on a USB disk
<lool> I mean the bug might be trigerred by a race which only happens on your hardware
<ogra> yes, i'll try to verify that using a slow disk
<ogra> i thought you mean r/w issues on the disk :)
 * ogra goes to find some breakfast
<wao> persia: well, if you know something new about saling smartbooks, just inform me:)
<persia> wao: Right now I only know of three devices (previously listed).  People usually mention their hardware here, if you read backscroll.
<asac> ogra: so lool doesnt see the rootstock issues? should i try?
<ogra> asac, well, he doesnt do such massive installs in his setups
<ogra> asac, feel free ... do a rootstock build with -s ubuntu.netbook^
<ogra> err
<ogra> -s ubuntu-netbook^
<ogra> and see if it hangs at "Unpacking iso-codes from ...."
<ogra> note it will take over 1h to get there
<dmart> Hi all, has anyone been trying to use the 20100303 ubuntu-netbook armel image?
<dmart> I get a weird problem:
<dmart> If I open a terminal and press enter, ^\ is printed in console text over the top of the framebuffer and then the X session dies
<ogra> known bug
<lool> Sounds like the plymouth race
<ogra> ask asac he fought with it for some days
<dmart> yeuch
<dmart> ok
<ogra> uninstall plymouth
<lool> dmart: if you login again, it shouldn't happen I think?
<dmart> Glad it's known about, I wouldn't have guessed what to report the bug on!
 * dmart tries
 * lool reported the bug against plymouth, but I'm pretty sure it got ignored and discussions is happening somewhere else
<persia> I think there's a few bugs about it based on #ubuntu-bugs traffic
<dmart> What's the default password for the ubuntu user (tried "ubuntu" but it didn't log in)
<ogra> lool, seb takes it serious ... he was the one who told me about it
<lool> ogra: I know it's taken seriously, I'm just saying that I don't know where discussion is happening about it
<lool> I filed a bug against plymouth (couldn't find any other one) and it got no feedback, wasn't merged etc.
<lool> I *think* Scott is working on this, perhaps slangasek too, but I'm not sure
<dmart> Ubunstalling plymouth and restarting gdm seemed to fix it
<dmart> I see there is a panel icon to get back to the launcher now
<persia> dmart: default password is nothing at all.
<dmart> Ah, right.  That's more sensible I guess; newbie users mightn't guess "ubuntu"
<persia> dmart: Also it means that ssh can't work (even if someone installs sshd) and similar, whereas a real default password would leave systems open to the default password hole.
<dmart> Good point
<lool> dmart: Ubunstalling, very cute  :)
<dmart> eh?
<lool> 11:42 < dmart> Ubunstalling plymouth and restarting gdm seemed to fix it
<ogra_> sweet
<dmart> Oops, if you can believe it, that was a typo...
<ogra_> dmart, you dont inted to move to marketing, do you ?
<lool> dmart: I can, I'll add it to my collection of really cute typos
<dmart> (A bit like the way I tended to mispell all words starting with P as "PRINT" in BASIC programming days...)
<lool> SWPeriously?
<dmart> (onily when daydreaming)
<dmart> Did anyone ever manage to get hold of a hub to look into the network slowness on imx51?
<dmart> Currently I must use one of those nettop things as a "switch"... they have wireless.  Uplinking via that is ~20x faster than a direct cable connection to a hub.
<dmart> ~Z
<dmart> Unfortunately I don't know how to debug this.
<lool> dmart: Sounds like you might want to involve Freescale on that; they are usually interested in buying the hardware when we mention that the boards doesn't work with that hard disk or that monitor
<lool> dmart: I remember there are two ethernet drivers in the tree, I'm not sure we're using the most recent FSL one, so that might help too
<ogra> dmart, i know i still own one, but searching for it two times didnt bring it up yet
<ogra> lool, we use full BSP in lucid
<ogra> no own patches
<ogra> so FSL should see the same issues with their kernel if its a driver issue
<lool> Still, we might be configuring the tree for the wrong driver; that might be unlikely though, I'm not intimate with imx51 anymore
<ogra> no, we switched to use the same they define in their defconfig
<dmart> I'll try and raise it with Freescale; maybe this is something they know about
<ogra> dmart, it might be related to bug 457878
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 457878 in linux-fsl-imx51 (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "imx51 on board ethernet plug/unplug events not detected (affects: 2)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/457878
<dmart> Yeah, someone suggested that before.  It's possible.
<ogra> given the phy layer is busted it might fail proper autonegotiation
<dmart> I added a cross-reference.
<ogra> thanks
<ogra> heh, now i have john cleese's voice in my head
<persia> Well, give it back.  He might have a use for it.
<ogra> lol
<nemo> Hey guys.  I don't know which endianness you guys use, but wanted to note we finally resolved a few of our issues on that front, and also have our engine running on iphone...
<nemo> so I was wondering if anyone here would be interested in pulling the ubuntu x86/x86_64 hedgewars package into arm
<nemo> esp once we release .13 w/ endian probs all squashed
<ogra> we use little endian (thus the architecture package name armel, arm endian little)
<ogra> if hedgewars is in the archive it will just be built on armel automatically
<nemo> oh? huh. last I checked I only saw x86 arch listed
<nemo> maybe there's some other issue
<ogra> then talk to the package maintainer
<nemo> aight. I don't know much about ubuntu processes
<ogra> you can explicitly make a package build only on one arch if you want to
<persia> We ship hedgewars for armel
<ogra> persia, ah, great
<ogra> i didnt bothe to look :)
<ogra> +r
<nemo> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/hedgewars
<nemo> only shows amd64/i386
 * persia is on the Games team and keeps track of these things.
<persia> nemo: Don't trust packages.ubuntu.com.  Ask launchpad.
<ogra> nemo, packages.u.c doesnt have armel
<nemo> I don't actually have an arm machine yet, but I (hopefully) will finally be getting a pandora
<ogra> right
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewards
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars
<ogra> look at launchpad
<nemo> woah
<nemo> wait. powerpc??
<nemo> how the heck are they doing that?
<nemo> there should be some colour issues
<nemo> well... cool.
<nemo> hopefully .13 will make it run even better :)
<ogra> that it built doesnt mean it also runs :)
<ogra> or that anyone tested it :)
<nemo> heh. you'd think there'd still be a few gamers on esoteric platforms
<nemo> well. esp ARM
<persia> I don't think we have any gamers on ia64 or sparc, but we do have them on the rest of the platforms.
<persia> But that doesn't necessarily mean everything is fixed :)
<ogra> you never know :)
<persia> Well, I do know we don't have any games maintainers on ia64 at least, and I haven't seen any games uploads from sparc, but yeah, I can't actually know.
 * ogra bets there are nethack people on sparc :)
<nemo> heh
<nemo> there are probably some nethack people on TI-83s
<nemo> well. thanks for the info. now I just need to find a gamer running ubuntu on arm to try it out.
<nemo> stupid pandora delays :-/
<nemo> talked to dude doing iphone port, he's pretty sure ppc should be totally unplayable in .12
<JamieBennett> dmart: can you give me your opinion on the correct way to fix a build failure?
<JamieBennett> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/388361/
<JamieBennett> this is the code that checks for specific arch's
<JamieBennett> I want a define for ARMv7, not specifically thumb, just wondered what to use
<dmart> hang on a mo
<dmart> You could use __ARM_ARCH_7A__
<dmart> The main annoyance there is that the code will repeatedly break if builrding for a subsequent architecture.
<dmart> What is the code protected by these #ifdefs?
<JamieBennett> dmart: indeed
<JamieBennett> some defines for nop, read_barrier and write_barrier stuff
<JamieBennett> dmart: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/388370/
<dmart> Is there v6 / v7 code?
<dmart> (and what package is this?)
<JamieBennett> just that
<JamieBennett> fio
<dmart> So there are no definitions of nop, read_barrier and write_barrier for the newer archs?
<JamieBennett> dmart: thats why its failing
<dmart> ok
<JamieBennett> I belive its just not defining them because the right ARCH check isn't satisfied
<dmart> Weell, v6 and v7 (especially SMP) should have non-trivial definitions for these.
<dmart> Is this from an embedded snapshot of another library?  The code looks a bit familiar.
<JamieBennett> its in fio (arch/arch-arm.h)
<dmart> OK, I guess it may be unique-ish to that package then
<JamieBennett> so the __ARCH_ARM_7A__ define may be sufficient or does this require something more?
<dmart> The code will "work", but it won't function as intended, especially if we want SMP to work properly.  Hold on, I'll have a quick think...
<JamieBennett> dmart: cool
<dmart> The cleanest way might be to do something like this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/388382/
<dmart> HAVE_GCC_ATOMICS can be detected using configure tests similar to what's been done for other packages (asac and dyfet have already done that elsewhere)
 * JamieBennett looks
<dmart> HAVE_ARM_NOP could be detected using a configure test (try and assemble a "nop" instruction) ... or using the __ARM_ARCH_... macros (__ARM_ARCH_6__ || __ARM_ARCH_6K__ || ARM_ARCH_6KZ__ || __ARM_ARCH_7__ || __ARM_ARCH_7A__ ... and maintain it... ugh)
<JamieBennett> OK, I think I need to do a bit of background reading, thanks for the pointers
<dyfet> well, if we are interested in whether the specific gcc being used to compile supports atomic functions, then we need a configure test for that
<dmart> Basically, it is cleaner not to add SMP correctness for GCC+kernel combinations which don't support this ... only people using ancient tools, ancient kernel, or a platform where it doesn't matter will fail to get the SMP-safe definitions.
<dmart> Otherwise we would need some special-case inline asm for this case, which will likely cause confusion and maintenance problems in the future.
<dmart> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2PortingHowto#Atomic%20operations%20and%20SMP%20safety%20(SWP,%20LDREX,%20STREX;%20memory%20barriers)
<dmart> (background on atomics)
 * JamieBennett reads
 * dmart admires the URLs generated by wiki.ubuntu.com
<persia> Because they are readable, or because they are confusing?
<JamieBennett> dyfet: can you point me to a package that you did the configure checks in so I can reference it please
<dyfet> Hmm...I think maybe gmp...or boost, that has a very good example in cmake
<JamieBennett> dyfet: thanks
<JamieBennett> :q
<JamieBennett> doh
<dmart> NCommander: would you be able to provide Ramana with debug objects for the OOo build problem?  It sounds like debug info would be useful, and I think you were doing a build?
<dmart> (my build attempt ftbfs: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/388391/)
<ogra> lool, so i tried a buiold on an USB key, no change ... what was intresting though was that the activity light on the stick kept blinking for nearly 20min even though the output from apt was already stuck in unpacking iso-codes
<ogra> i wonder if there is some buffer thats overrunning or something so apt still does its work in the bg but doesnt present the output
<dmart> Was the kernel just committing the page cache to USB?  This can go on for a long time after a lot of data is written to a filesystem.  (Though 20 mins suggests a very large amount of data, dpkg's unpack phase could have this effect)
<ogra> well, i dont know how my host kernel behaves regarding the VM
<ogra> the first step would likely be to find out which of the two kernels does the caching here :)
<ogra> its a quite tricky situation
<dmart> Maybe the storage emulation in the VM is slow, so there is a constant trickle of data to the real USB device for a long time.
<ogra> yeah, and maybe that causes the hiccup that makes apt get stuck
 * ogra decides to kill rootsock now before the intel CPU pops out through the bottom of the laptop ... i guess its glowing :)
<asac__> ogra: what should i try for rootstock?
 * asac__ fires it up
<asac__> what is EST?
<asac__> is that UTC-5?
<asac__> yeah seems so
<|nfecteD> argh! all this s*** that doesn't compile and doesn't work
<|nfecteD> Snes9x no go... VICE won't compile :/
<|nfecteD> blargh
<persia> |nfecteD: Thanks for the care :)
<NCommander> dmart: welcome to the pain of building OOo
<NCommander> dmart: I managed to build OOo, but its really not trivial to do so, but I don't mine letting him loose on the GDB setup I have :-)
<dmart> I did succeed once before... but a long time ago.  Took a few days too
<NCommander> dmart: successful build time is roughly two-three days if your lucky
<dmart> I did try to use distcc, but you seem to lose as much as you gain.  make doesn't know to parallelise certain things and not others.
<NCommander> dmart: youcan use ooo-build with icecc for slightly better results, but my experience was about the same
<dmart> Did you get a debug build yet?
<NCommander> dmart: yes, I did, and I posted debug traces to the bug
<NCommander> dmart: but they don't tell us anything very useful unfortuately
<dmart> I got some questions here about whether we have all the .o files needed to build gcc3_uno (or whatever it's called)
<dmart> What's the bug number again?
<NCommander> dmart: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/417009
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 417009 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 3 other projects) "all openoffice apps die in 'com::sun::star::ucb::InteractiveAugmentedIOException' on armel in karmic (affects: 1)" [Low,Won't fix]
<dmart> Can you post the relevant .o files?  I haven't been able to get a build going here --- it falls over during patching.
<NCommander> dmart: its not trivial to do so
<NCommander> dmart: and you can't get a useful trace of OOo without a *full* build* even if you just build a debug version of the module that is crahsing
<dmart> It's not trivial for me to build it, or for you to send the .o files ? ;)
<NCommander> dmart: bandwidth is an issue
<dmart> It's slow, but the normal debuild route ought to work, right?
<NCommander> oooh
<dmart> (me building I mean)
 * NCommander just managed to build a working UNO library on a karmic chroot
<dyfet> oh?!
<dmart> eh?
<NCommander> dmart: UNO is the bit of OOo that keeps crashing
<NCommander> dyfet: I forced an old glibc in the chroot, and then rebuild the uno library
<NCommander> and it works
<dyfet> oh...hmm...then it suggests it is more tied to some issue in glibc?
<dmart> that's a bit scary
<NCommander> dyfet: I had to use gcc 4.3 over 4.4, but 4.3+eglibc from karmic also got a bust
<NCommander> dmart: yeah, I tried downgrading binutils and GCC first to try and flush out where we might have a regression :-/
<dmart> what about 4.4+karmic eglibc?
<NCommander> dmart: bust.
<dyfet> dmart: this is a stack unwinding issue....(I guess still is...)
<dmart> Maybe there is some unwinding brokenness in libc?
<NCommander> dyfet: dmart: I confirmed we're blowing up in the unwind exception handler in phase2 (careful debugging found this)
<NCommander> dmart: looks like it, but it doesn't make sense why I can build uno ina jaunty chroot, copy it into a karmic or lucid system work, and get a working binary
<dyfet> Hmm...do we need to migrate older glibc stack unwinding support into the current glibc for arm?  That could be ugly :)
<NCommander> dyfet: you *don't* want to know how I forced an older glibc into a karmic system
 * NCommander had apps explodjng left and right
<dyfet> NCommander: when you moved the jaunty build of uno, it probably still linked against older libc version code/loaded the older library....
<NCommander> dyfet: we don't have the old libraris in karmic/lucid
<NCommander> ENOABIBREAK
<NCommander> *libraries
<dyfet> NCommander: I think we do for backward compat...
<NCommander> dyfet: ldd says otherwise
<dyfet> NCommander: Okay, if you confirmed it with ldd, I am satisfied :)
<persia> Note that an individual install of jaunty upgraded to karmic may have some old libraries left around, and we do keep some stuff in Section: oldlibs when porting is very hard, but nothing relevant to OOo.
<NCommander> persia: these are clean installations and chroots :-/
<persia> NCommander: I know, and even if they weren't it wouldn't matter because it's OO.o  I'm only mentioning for completeness.
 * NCommander is scared at the notion of bisecting glibc
<dmart> Well, catch you tomorrow...
 * NCommander just missed him
<NCommander> bugger
<lool> ogra: So can you log from another console while it's hung?
<lool> ogra: Would you be able to gdb apt?
<armin76> NCommander: i'm here though :D
<NCommander> armin76: want to bisect glibc? :-)
<armin76> i need a board first *g*
<NCommander> armin76: SSH access could be arranged
<armin76> i like video! :D
<NCommander> armin76: a *really* long DVI cable?
<armin76> sure, why not :D
<ogra> lool, not under rootstock but in a normal VM session ... i'll do that tomorrow, it always takes ages to get to the point, nothing for tonight anymore
<ogra> asac, just running rootstock with a -s ubuntu-netbook^ task should do
<ogra> but i suspect you'll see the same as i do anyway ...
 * ogra is off again until meeting
<lool> ogra: You should buy a faster hard disk
<JamieBennett> dyfet: around?
<dyfet> yes
<dyfet> Was just setting up a lucid server....
<JamieBennett> cool, got time to hand-hold me through this fio problem so I can learn how to do it properly
<JamieBennett> ?
<dyfet> lol okay...which package are we talking about?
<JamieBennett> fio
<dyfet> oh, there is one :)
<JamieBennett> apt-get source fio ;)
<dyfet> just did
<JamieBennett> OK, the problem is in arch/arch-arm.h
<JamieBennett> I know the fix for there but need to ensure that HAVE_GCC_ATOMICS and HAVE_ARM_NOP are defined properly
<JamieBennett> not sure where to add the checks for them
<dyfet> Ah...this is using barriers...?
<JamieBennett> yes
<JamieBennett> So basically I can fix that file to check for the appropriate defines but I need to setup the defines somewhere
<dyfet> Hmm...this package does not use configure?
<JamieBennett> no, just a makefile hence my wanting to know what is best practice
<dyfet> Well, a cheap way to do it is to add it to CFLAGS in the debian/rules on a check for architecture....
<dyfet> We did that in a couple of cases
<JamieBennett> oh, can you give me an example of which package does that?
<dyfet> I am looking right now...
<dyfet> Well, you can start with DEB_BUILD_ARCH ?= $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH)
<dyfet> and then do something like ifeq *$(DEB_BUILD_ARCH), arm)
<dyfet> CFLAGS += HAVE_GCC_ATOMICS
<dyfet> endif
<dyfet> Something like this is in boos1.40-1.40/debian/rules...though it does it through setting TOOLSET_CONFIG, but the same idea...
<dyfet> (CFLAGS += -DHAVE_GCC_ATOMICS :)
 * JamieBennett goes to look
<dyfet> Another example of this can be found in gmp-4.3.2+dfsg/debian/rules which is perhaps closer
<dyfet> DEB_HOST_ARCH  ?= $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH)
<dyfet> ifneq (,$(findstring $(DEB_HOST_ARCH), armel))
<dyfet>     CFLAGS += -Wa,--defsym,USES_THUMB=1
<dyfet> endif
<dyfet> In this case, you would just need CFLAGS += -DGCC_ATOMICS...
<JamieBennett> dumb question, this adds GCC_ATOMICS to the flags but this is undesirable for all ARM architectures or am I missing some check for ARMv7 somewhere?
<dyfet> Well, if the rules file is unique to ubuntu/lucid or later, then all our arm architectures are this :)...But yes, we should not do this to something meant to push back to debian unchanged
<JamieBennett> agreed
<dyfet> On packages that use autotools, we can test for gcc atomics, but fio doesn't have it...
<dyfet> But it would also mean we have to patch configure and then regenerate it in the rules...
<dyfet> For that, where autotools are used, it's best to submit the configure change upstream to the package maintainer, I think
<JamieBennett> so is it best practice to add a check to the Makefile or to debian/rules in this case?
<dyfet> For autotools you could use something like AC_CHECK_FUNC(__sync_synchronize) and then test on HAVE__SYNC_SYNCHRONIZE, for example...
<dyfet> As to best case when not using autotools or cmake, I am not sure, I choose the rules files after several people suggested doing it there
<JamieBennett> OK, I'll do it there then, thanks for the pointers dyfet
<JamieBennett> plars: not at the moment, maybe for lucid+1
<JamieBennett> doh
<mturquette> how do I find out which seeds are supported in roostock?
<mturquette> neither --help or manpage give info.
<mturquette> ah, they are dpkgs!  of course.
<lool> mturquette: They should be tasks; you can list tasks with taskel
<lool> *tasksel
<lool> (tasksel --list-tasks)
<james_l> Does anyone know where tslib stores it's configuration information?
<mturquette> lool: thanks much.
<asac_the_2nd> james_l: not sure ... /etc/ts.conf ?
<james_l> Not it, unfortunately.
#ubuntu-arm 2010-03-05
<asac_the_2nd> james_l: the man page ts.conf(5) says its the configuration for tslib ;)
<asac_the_2nd> ts.conf - Configuration file for tslib, controlling touch screens for embedded devices.
<james_l> Well, it doesn't seem to be, from pre-configuration (mirred axis) and post-configuration (working). /etc/ts.conf is the exact same.
<asac_the_2nd> is "confiugration" a command? maybe run in strace to see what it writes
<james_l> Ah, found what I was looking for /etc/pointercal
 * asac_the_2nd nods
<porter1> Does anyone know if rootstock works with lucid or whether I should stick with karmic?
<persia> porter1: lucid as a host or a target?
<porter1> persia, both
<persia> rootstock has significant improvements in lucid as a host, but lucid itself is not yet at beta, so there are still rough edges.
<porter1> It appears as though rootstock gets stuck after extracting in debootstrap, so I might try just executing by hand for now
<persia> rootstock should support arbitrary guest (you may need a backported debootstrap).  lucid as a guess is not yet at best, so there are still rough edges.
<porter1> Yeah, I shouldn't have switched until the first beta, but it isn't too painful :)
<persia> I usually switch much earlier: I just like to warn folks :)
<porter1> So 2.6.32-13 in ogra's archive is not supposed to run right in qemu I guess?
<persia> I don't know offhand.
<persia> I think lool was advocating extracting the kernel from the linux-versatile build in lucid.
<porter1> oh
<porter1> I might just stick with the 2.6.31 for a while then. THanks for the help.
<asac> bug 532342
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 532342 in rootstock (Ubuntu) "rootstock-gtk does not allow to specify the target rootfs tarball file path (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532342
<asac> bug 532343
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 532343 in rootstock (Ubuntu) "think about rootstock .desktop file Categories (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532343
<persia> asac?
<asac> just bugs i filed ;)
<asac> feel free to comment or ignore :-P
<asac> hmm. rootstock-gtk is looping on CPU while nothing happens in UI ... just in the VM
<asac> filed
<asac> bug 532358 ;)
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 532358 in rootstock (Ubuntu) "rootstock-gtk is consuming a full core (CPU) while nothing happens in UI (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532358
<persia> asac: But the VM is slammed, right?
<persia> Or is the VM using one core and the GUI another for useless polling?
<asac> not yet
<asac> its currently doing
<asac> Selecting previously deselected package iputils-arping.
<asac> Unpacking iputils-arping (from .../iputils-arping_3%3a20071127-2_armel.deb) ...
<asac> Selecting previously deselected package iputils-tracepath.
<asac> Unpacking iputils-tracepath (from .../iputils-tracepath_3%3a20071127-2_armel.deb) ...
<asac> hmm. doesnt move though ;)
<asac> just spins and consumes cycles
<asac> did ogra say it did that or was idling?
<persia> He said he had some issues with installing some stuff, and was trying to get lool to look into it.
<tuxdavis> question about compiler optimizing an inline function that access private member data, could be possible reason for crash in kdebindings
<persia> Go ahead :)
<tuxdavis> If the compiler were to in fact perform the recommended optimization, would the calling function then be performing an illegal operation, since it would be accessing private data
<persia> I wouldn't think that an inline function would have namespace to hold private data (although I'll admit to not having a deep understanding at that level)
<tuxdavis> yeah in the "generators/parser/lexar.h" file in the kdebindings package, there is an inline function "inline int kind(std::size_t i) {return tokens[i].kind;}"
<tuxdavis> The problem is that the "tokens" variable is private data
<NCommander> tuxdavis: interesting, how'd you find this?
<tuxdavis> compiling the kdebindings in debug mode, then ran the smokegen through gdb, since that's what was segfaulting
<NCommander> tuxdavis: interesting. sounds like a GCC bug
<tuxdavis> not necessarily
<tuxdavis> it could be that the inline keyword should not be used inside a class if the function is going to be accessing private data
<tuxdavis> but I'm testing this right now, by removing the inline then seeing what happens
<NCommander> tuxdavis: wonder why that works w.r.t. to !ARM
<tuxdavis> the inline command is a "recomendation" to the compiler not a requirement
<tuxdavis> so it's possible that it's making the optimization on ARM, but not on others
<persia> So we'd actually have to compare the output of the preprocessor cross-platform to understand hwo the choice is made :(
<tuxdavis> most likely
<tuxdavis> I'm trying a very simple test, by commenting out the inline keywords then recompile and see what happens
<tuxdavis> it's recompiling smokegen with the updated header file right now
<tuxdavis> it seems this is very likely a compiler test, because if you compile everything in debug mode, then run smokegen through gdb with the same args that the Makefile is giving it (on the "smoke/akonadi/akonadi_includes.h" file, then when it crashes, telling gdb to print m_session->token_stream->tokens[0].kind prints ok, whereas m_session->token_stream->kind(0) crashes, even though kind is defined as "inline int kind(std:size_t i) {return tokens[i]
<tuxdavis> so the two prints are accessing the same data just one is passed through an inline function call, and the other is accessed directly
<persia> Could you pastebin the backtrace?
<tuxdavis> yes, though it would take a bit because it's currently recompiling with the updated header
<persia> No rush.
<persia> I just like to read backtraces.  Often I can understand something from them.
<persia> I have a feeling that you're right, and that it's a scoping problem.
<persia> Have you also tried dfferent -O levels to see if the behaviour changes?
<tuxdavis> Unfortunately I don't know yet exactly how to tell cmake to compile with different optimization levels
<tuxdavis> And to do it manually would require finding out exactly what commands are being passed on ALL the source files going into the smokegen executable
<tuxdavis> then recompiling ALL the source files with the different optimization flags
<persia> Manually isn't right.
<persia> The folk in #kubuntu-devel may be able to suggest how to wrangle cmake.
<tuxdavis> let me check the cmake documentation and see if there's something in there
<persia> That works too :)
<NCommander> persia: tuxdavis: edit the C and CXX options lines in  CMakeCache.txt in the build directory for Release builds (I think),
<NCommander> then run make
<NCommander> alternately, install ccmake, and edit it that way
<DanaG> oooh, 2.6.33 kernel on rcn-ee.net
<tuxdavis> ah
<DanaG> Bummer: it still doesn't suspend.
<DanaG> "class suspend failed for cpu 0"
<DanaG> hmm, is command-not-found supposed to not-work on ARM?
<persia> DanaG: Did you install it?
<DanaG> yeah.
<persia> Then it ought just work.
<DanaG> Doesn't seem very different from 2.6.32.
 * persia checks quick-like
<persia> DanaG: Indeed.  Doesn't work for armel, ia64, powerpc, or sparc.  Please file a bug and subscribe me.
<DanaG> file it on "Linux" package?
<persia> On command-not-found
<DanaG> ah.
<persia> If you've a bug in your kernel, talk to rcn-ee for now.
<DanaG> ah.
<persia> Need to get the kernel into the distro before it's worth filing bugs on LP about it.
<DanaG> Are there plans to have an official Ubuntu-repo beagleboard kernel?
<persia> `ubuntu-bug command-not-found` ought do the right thing.
<persia> I have plans to support every single device capable of running Ubuntu ever manufactured.
<persia> I have doubts my plans will come to fruition
<persia> From what I was told asking about NetWalker kernels, it basically requires the kernel team to have enough spare engineering resources.
<DanaG> Oldest device I've tried Linux on: Zaurus "Collie" -- Angstrom claimed to offer support for it, and yet failed to enable config options for Zaurus Collie drivers in the kernel!
<persia> Aww.
<persia> Collies are cute.
 * persia likes the slide action, but not the resultion so much
<DanaG> Drivers being broken or crappy, I can forgive... but not enabling CONFIG_UCB1X00_TS (or such)?  That's "fail".
<persia> Oh, did I misremember?
<persia> "Collie" is SLC-1x00 ?
<DanaG> Yeah.
<DanaG> er
<DanaG> no
<DanaG> Collie is SL-5500.
<persia> Right, that's what I thought.
<persia> Also the SL-B500 in Japan.
<DanaG> Or anyway, whatever WAS the correct touchscreen driver... they didn't enable it.
<persia> That's annoying.
<DanaG> Last time I tried it was ages ago, though.
<persia> You recompiled, I hope.
<DanaG> er, I don't remember, now.  I tried using openembedded; I ended up having to tell it to repeatedly copy MY .config over the one it tried to use.
<DanaG> I much prefer the Ubuntu / Debian way: dpkg-buildpackage.  or make-kpkg.
<persia> And, once we conquer the world, just apt-get install.
<lifeless> persia: have you heard of scratchbox?
<persia> lifeless: Yes.  I don't like the concept of SDKs.
<lifeless> ok
<persia> Plus I don't really like cross-compilation (although I don't mind emulated compilation)
<persia> lifeless: Why?
<lifeless> just been talking to raster about why he had two laptops with him
<persia> one was a runtime environment, and th other a scratchbox environment?
<lifeless> two scratchboxes, one per vendor
<persia> Aha.
<persia> In our world, we'd have two pbuilder tar.gzs or two schroots on the same laptop.
<persia> But that runs slower.
<Elive_user28_en> ok, been trying to figure out why I keep seeing kernel panic trying to boot a jaunty fs on my hawkboard (OmapL138)
<Elive_user28_en> Finally in a doh moment I split my mmc card in half and had angstrom mount the jaunty half
<persia> And?
<Elive_user28_en> if i try to run (even with ld_library_path.. ) anything from jaunty I get illegal instruction
 * persia looks up the OmapLi386
<persia> Er,, L138
<Elive_user28_en> did something change? There were posts of people claiming to have made it work
 * persia has typed i386 too many times today
<Elive_user28_en> oh yea..
<Elive_user28_en> sorry
<Elive_user28_en> l138
<persia> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap-l138.html ?
<Elive_user28_en> I even tried a trick switching boot arg /sbin/init to /bin/bash.. no dice
<Elive_user28_en> yes
<Elive_user28_en> that is the core chip on the hawkboard
<persia> Setting init to /bin/bash just launches a shell instead of the normal boot process.
<Elive_user28_en> angstrom works, and supposedly some have built android..
<persia> It looks to me like you *should* be able to run Jaunty, but nothing newer.
<Elive_user28_en> right even that fails..
<Elive_user28_en> it does report mounting rootfs
<persia> You're sure the kernel you're using works?
<Elive_user28_en> ext2.. the kernel boots angstrom just fine
<Elive_user28_en> is there a earlier than Jaunty option? or some way to specify processor familly?
<persia> No and No.
<persia> You might be interesed in Debian, but it may be possible to get Jaunty to work.
<Elive_user28_en> course.. what would be supper slick (though time consuming and probably problematic) would be to pull the sources and build
<Elive_user28_en> given arch / cross compiler arguments
<persia> Takes a few months :)
<Elive_user28_en> but thats just me
<persia> 20,000 packages is a bunch.
<Elive_user28_en> well yea if we built them all :)
<Elive_user28_en> just the seeds people are requesting..
<Elive_user28_en> make their puters build them
<Elive_user28_en> shoot forgot to change nic
<auzieman> I'm building a minimal jaunty now will try it..
<auzieman> you mention debian and while I am a fan I am not a guru on debian
<auzieman> how the heck do we fetch the debian arm debs
<persia> From your local repo.
<persia> Or do you mean "Is there a tool like rootstock that runs on Debian?"
<auzieman> yes a rootstockish tool
<auzieman> my core install is actually Elive (Lenny based E217)
<auzieman> so I actually would rather not go into my vbox to wait on these..
<persia> I don't know of one: we could hope that rootstock upstream extends the scripts to work also in Debian.
<auzieman> yea.. suppose its download for arch and then deb with chroot or such
<persia> But you should be able to run debootstrap from your angstrom or elive install to get a base chroot.
<auzieman> angstrom has a aptish tool I just was hoping for an ubuntu or deb source rather than angstrom..
<auzieman> I could I suppose ponder trying to do the whole damn thing from sources (ewwwwwww) 2gb ram and duo cpu it'd take a while
<persia> No really.  The program "debootstrap" will do 90% of what you want.
<persia> Most of rootstock is wrapping debootstrap around an emulated chroot.
<auzieman> Ill check it out..
<persia> Note that using debootstrap doesn't do everything, there will be a few files missing (like /etc/fstab), but you ought be able to create those.
<auzieman> I think the trick here is getting the sources in the right order and building them with the cross compiler
<persia> I don't know why you're getting "illegal instruction", but I'm unsure would get updates to fix that.
<auzieman> that way everything is a dead match to the kernel / uboot etc
<persia> debootstrap won't do that.  It just gets the binaries in the right order and installs them in a chroot.
<persia> Bootstrapping is harder.
<auzieman> jep..
<auzieman> for now I probably would just continue with Angstrom.. at least till the android git repos are back on line and I finally build that beasty
<auzieman> Though android will be a bit silly in my case as I just want headless.. but I think it would be funny
<auzieman> to run a robot using android
<auzieman> putting the droid back into its name
<persia> heh.  Good pun.
<persia> Perhaps less good OS choice: from what I've heard, Android is stripped down below what many consider the minimum to maximise that GUI experience.
<persia> Dunno if you can get the robot controls working (but extra points if you can)
<auzieman> I'm being somewhat loopy .. planing on mostly python
<persia> python+android?  Good luck.
<auzieman> pondering a few other packages like the openvision stuff
<auzieman> python is in android
<auzieman> so is some form of java
<auzieman> wait let me recheck the source tree.. I have a partial checkout
<auzieman> ./external/clearsilver/python
<auzieman> yep.. as well as wx bindings and a whole mess of sections
<auzieman> android is more linux than they would like us to think
<persia> It'S just an uncommon application :)
<auzieman> its part of WebKit and e2fsprogs in their world..
<persia> The base kernel and libraries are 100% linux, just stripped down enough that they aren't SUS or in some cases even POSIX compliant.
<auzieman> its a biatch of a build though
<auzieman> well yea
<persia> Doesn't mean you can't do stuff, just makes it a bit trickier (and faster)
<auzieman> shoot you should shell into angstrom on a hawkboard
<auzieman> audio drivers but no /dev/dsp
<auzieman> video drivers with no /dev/video
<persia> angstrom is (just) SUS compliant
<auzieman> but at the same time they offer stuff like ffmpeg but it cant find audio or video sources
<auzieman> oh here but best of luck getting it to run
<persia> heh.  insufficient integration
<persia> Now only if you had Ubuntu work, we could look at integration;)
<auzieman> thats why I was hoping for an ubuntu bin set for my hawkboard :/
<auzieman> the hawkboard has usb, audio, svga, 128mb nand + ram mmc slot 89.00 @300MHZ
<auzieman> You could put it in a lil case and use it as a simple workstation.. but running on a usb powersupply
<auzieman> and its actually very zippy on the shell
<auzieman> I would think ubuntu would be all over the hawk, beagle and a few of the other cheapish arm boards
<auzieman> shoot they could make a little money just selling sdk kits / books for them and get a bunch of startups / hacks like me all involved..
<auzieman> any how thanks for the help, Ill transfer the image in a few and retest it..
<auzieman> yep jaunty is happish on hawkboards
<auzieman> at least so far..
<ogra> I: copying [../rootstock_0.1.99.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes]
<ogra> I: copying [../utils]
<ogra> cp: cannot stat `../utils': No such file or directory
<ogra> ???
 * ogra wonders about his pbuilder 
<ogra> sigh, upgrading pbuilder doesnt fix it
<ogra> i wonder how that broke
 * ogra doesnt belive it ... even wiping my whole pbuilder sertup and rebuilding it doesnt fix it
<asac> dyfet: status on "Package and maintain Canola and deps in lucid archive: TODO"
<asac> ?
<asac> thats still on beta list
<JamieBennett> asac: I packaged most of the deps and we have a ppa for canola, just needs the final push
<JamieBennett> (and got them packaged/sync'd e.t.c, I didn't do all the package work)
<JamieBennett> asac: most dependencies are satisfied by the work done for netbook-launcher-efl
<asac> persia: mobile-lucid-arm-lib-tests ... two items i need input on there ;)
<asac> JamieBennett: yeah. is that pp amaintained by us?
<asac> or by oem or someone else
<JamieBennett> asac: OEM from what I remember
<asac> i think its fine to say that spec is done if its packaged and maintained by us
<JamieBennett> asac: Canola needs bringing into universe ideally
<asac> JamieBennett: 532548
<asac> JamieBennett: do you have the url for canola?
<JamieBennett> asac: http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/
<asac> JamieBennett: sorry. the ppa i mean
<JamieBennett> asac: not, handy, let me look
<JamieBennett> asac: https://edge.launchpad.net/~canola/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid
<JamieBennett> looks like there are more dependencies than I remember
<asac> JamieBennett: all those need to get in?
<JamieBennett> asac: No
<JamieBennett> asac: we need to assess exactly what is needed
<asac> bug 532549
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 532549 in ubuntu "[FFe] ubuntu-webmail (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532549
<asac> (just for record)
<asac> JamieBennett: seems the uploads were done after efl launcher landing
<asac> so without looking it feels all the packages are on top there
<asac> bug 532554
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 532554 in ubuntu "[FFe] canola for lucid/universe (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532554
<asac> JamieBennett: ^^ filed that
<JamieBennett> asac: OK
<asac> didnt subscribe release yet, we first need the packages needde
<JamieBennett> dyfet was going to do that, not sure how far he got with it
<asac> thats why i pinged him first ;)
<JamieBennett> asac: yes :)
<dyfet> I have a package for it, and it packages very nice now that we have etk for the launcher, but I was not certain if canola itself is being maintained, and it's based on a snapshot of the source repo
<dyfet> thats why I was hesitant
<asac> dyfet: you have a package? from the list there seems to be a bunch of packages required
<asac> can you come up with a minimal list?
<dyfet> asac: they are packages also used by the new 2d launcher :)
<dyfet> canola itself is python, but it used a lot of enlightenment toolkit stuff...
<JamieBennett> dyfet: what about the media scanner?
<asac> dyfet: : https://edge.launchpad.net/~canola/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=lucid
<asac> thats the list of packages in the ppa ... that we dont have in our archive
<asac> please come up with a list of items that nees to get done quick ;)
<asac> then we can decide if we put it in archive or not
<dyfet> Okay
<asac> cool ... at best i would have that before todays release meeting ;)
<asac> like in 3h
<dyfet> Well, I have to go to the eye doctor this morning
<dyfet> so it will likely be a bit later this afternoon
<JamieBennett> asac: let me finish off this weboffice packaging and I'll take a look at canonla dependencies
<JamieBennett> *canola* :)
<asac> heroic ;)
<asac> Selecting previously deselected package indicator-session.
<asac> Unpacking indicator-session (from .../indicator-session_0.2.4-0ubuntu2_armel.deb) ...
<asac> ogra: ^^ thats where it hangs for me
<asac> it seems
<asac> well its consuming CPU cycles
<asac> but doesnt move forward
<asac> ogra: does the output i see on console directly come from the qemu command? or is that piped out somehow too?
<JamieBennett> NCommander: the girlfriend or the cat ;)
<ogra> asac, there read directly from a fifo
<ogra> asac, but the rootstock script doesnt matter, if you build with --keepimage and use ubuntu-minimal and then run qemu-system-arm the behavior will be the same
<ogra> s/there/they are/
<ogra> its intresting though that it gets stuck on a different package for you
<asac> ogra: so i can use --keep-image and i can then switch in there and install the ubnutu-netbook thing?
 * asac does that
<ogra> right
<ogra> --keepimage
<ogra> no dash
<ogra> that gives you a qemu image
<ogra> use -l and -p for it
<ogra> else you get dropped into oem-config first
<ogra> s/first/on first boot/
<asac> sudo rootstock -l -p --keepimage -f blah -s ubuntu-minimal^ -i 3G
<asac> that?
<ogra> -l and -p need parameters
<asac> yeah
<ogra> -l <login name> -p <passwd>
<asac> ok its running
<ogra> and you wouldnt need 3G here :)
<ogra> minimal fits in less than 1
<asac> but i want to go in there and install the reest
<ogra> oh, indeed, you want to keep the image ... so 3G is fine
<asac> so i think i need more space
<ogra> yep
<ogra> didnt think about that
<ogra> i'm just trying the qcow2 conversion stuff here ...
<ogra> not having to specify the size will be a huge win
<ogra> given that you see the hang on a different package i wonder if the amount of RAM of the host somehow influences it
<ogra> i got 4G here
<ogra> (using the pae kernel)
<ogra> how much has your machine ?
<ogra> hmm, the conversion doesnt take to much time for raw->qcow2 ...
 * ogra wonders about the way back once the fs is filled up
<asac> ogra: qemu-static-arm wants a kernel
<asac> err system-arm
<ogra> one sec
<asac> if i just pass the .img
<ogra> qemu-system-arm -M versatilepb -cpu cortex-a8 -kernel ./vmlinuz -hda arm-rootfs.img -m 256 -append "root=/dev/sda mem=256M devtmpfs.mount=0 rw"
<ogra> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/lucid/main/installer-armel/current/images/versatile/netboot/vmlinuz
<ogra> use that kernel
<asac> err
<asac> ok
<ogra> arm-rootfs.img needs to be your .img indeed
<asac> but dont you add that anyway?
<asac> e.g. why is that gone after --keepimage?
<ogra> the kernel ?
<asac> well. you go to second stage and boot the vm, dont you?
<ogra> because rootstock isnt designed as a VM imagebuilder :) its just a sideeffect that a VM is used
<ogra> --keepimage is just skipping the tarball creation
<ogra> the kernel above is what is used during build, its documented everywhere how to get it ... while it saves some bandwith to keep it i dont want to start storing a gazillion of files of one build
<ogra> hmm, using qcow2 seems to make the VM act faster
<ogra> at least "felt"
<ogra> yay, qcow2 works fine
 * ogra tries a bigger task than ubuntu-minimal 
<ogra> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<ogra> libgtk2.0-bin: Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.19.6-1ubuntu4) but 2.19.6-1ubuntu3 is to be installed
<ogra> GRRRRR !!!!!!
<ogra> i really start hating arch: all packages
<asac> noted
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i think for ports we should have special casing ...
<ogra> so _all.deb dont get published until all the arch dependent packages are ready
<ogra> assuming that prots has special code in the publisher already since its a different server
<JamieBennett> asac: canola dependencies - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/388929/
<lool> persia: If people want a stable URL to get a versatile kernel, the d-i one is probably best
<asac> JamieBennett: all packages are in that ppa?
<asac> ogra: well. you want to wait for really slow sparc?
<asac> anyway, i know that some folks in debian would want the archive to act like that
<ogra> asac, rather than having broken images all the time or not being able to test rootstock
<asac> you have a local mirrorÃ
<asac> when its ok, stop upgrading ;)
<ogra> i will novw have to wait half the day until i can do my next testrun
<ogra> i dont have a local mirror
 * ogra considers local mirrors a massive waste of space ... i use package proxies
<asac> package proxy is kind of a mirror
<ogra> right, "kind of"
<ogra> it verifies its content with the archive first
<ogra> and hands the breakage through
<ogra> i could use the file:// protocol directly on the cache ... but rootstock cant support that since qemu wont see it
<ogra> probably something to implement in rootstock 5.0 or so :)
<JamieBennett> asac: Yes, all packages are there. Tested it in a Lucid VM and all is good.
<ogra> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<ogra> initramfs-tools: Depends: initramfs-tools-bin (= 0.92bubuntu67) but 0.92bubuntu66 is to be installed
 * ogra cries
<ogra> there goes ubuntu-minimal
<ogra> :/
<asac> i am off the phone calls for torday :(
<ogra> to prepare for the IRC meeting eh
<ogra> you must loive your fridays
<asac> three calls in a row ;)
<asac> now crazy stuff like release team wants to know something
<ogra> yeah
 * ogra commits and pushes the autosize function for rootstock
<ogra> yay ... no more need for defining the imagesize
<ynezz> nice :)
<mturquette> trying to build lucid with roostock.  kicked off the build before leaving the office last night and this morning I am stuck at,
<mturquette> I: Getting Virtual Machine kernel from the server
<mturquette> I: Switching to Virtual Machine for second stage processing
<mturquette> I assume the Virtual Machine (QEMU ARM, right?) shoudn't take 10+ hours...
<ogra> no
<ogra> whats your host system running ?
<mturquette> core i7, 8 processors if you count hyperthreading, lots of RAM and Ubuntu 9.10
<ogra> ah, karmic
<mturquette> known issues?
<ogra> and you use the packaged rootstock i guess ?
<mturquette> I did this time.
<mturquette> previously I used the tarball from launchpad
<ogra> karimc is missing http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~project-rootstock-developers/project-rootstock/trunk/revision/31
<mturquette> latest tarball on launchpad has that?
<ogra> yes, i uploaded it this morning
<mturquette> thanks, will try.
<ogra> though its not tested on karmic yet, i test on lucid only atm
<ogra> if everything works fine please report it here :)
<mturquette> ogra: will do.
<ogra> thanks :)
<mturquette> looking at revision 31, I can't help but notice you ony pass 256M RAM to QEMU
<mturquette> any reason why you run it that low?
<ogra> yes, qemu-system-arm cant handle more
<mturquette> well that would explain it ;-)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> for rollong a rootfs you dont really need more though
<ogra> its all just apt/dpkg
<mturquette> yeah, i'm not familiar with the overhead of package managers really.
<asac> ogra: what bugnumber shoujld i name for the qemu problems?
<ogra> asac, there is none yet
<ogra> asac, bug 530000 might also be intresting but given i doubt that can be fixes before release probably nbot appropriate
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 530000 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "mono assembly installation under qemu-arm-static hangs (affects: 1)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530000
<asac> ogra: we need a bug for that if it consumes a full week ;)
<asac> of your precious time
<asac> RC bug even
<asac> maybe open one even if not enough info
<mturquette> how functional is the rootstock gui at this point?
<ogra> asac, bug 532733
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
<asac> * imx51 and dove in good shape
<ogra> mturquette, its functional in lucid ... totally untested in karmic
<asac> plars: GrueMaster: ^^ is that right statement?
<ogra> mturquette, but still has issues i need to fix before release ... else i need to buy asac a triple core laptop to demote one core to the UI :)
<asac> lol
<ogra> asac, iirc todays build was broken
 * ogra checks logs
<asac> out of sync
<asac> or anything serious
<ogra> ah, no, todays was good
<ogra> yesterdays was "artwork out of sync"
<asac> !info newlib
<ubot4`> asac: Package newlib does not exist in karmic
<ogra> heh
<asac> bug 514232
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 514232 in newlib (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "[arm] needs porting to thumb2 (affects: 1)" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514232
<ogra> !info libnewlib0
<ubot4`> ogra: libnewlib0 (source: newlib): newlib C library (runtime). In component universe, is extra. Version 1.17.0-0ubuntu5 (karmic), package size 1509 kB, installed size 4384 kB
<asac> bug 507503
<asac> !info source newlib
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 507503 in linux-mvl-dove (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "VFP/NEON state is not preserved around signal handlers, causing state corruption between user processes (affects: 1)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507503
<ubot4`> asac: 'newlib' is not a valid distribution: hardy, intrepid, jaunty, karmic, lucid
<asac> ubot4`: basterd
<ubot4`> Factoid 'basterd' not found
<ogra> !info newlib-source
<ubot4`> ogra: newlib-source (source: newlib): newlib C library (source). In component universe, is extra. Version 1.17.0-0ubuntu5 (karmic), package size 4162 kB, installed size 4252 kB
<ogra> he likes me more :P
<asac> hwat a bad syntax
<asac> bug 507416
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 507416 in uboot-imx (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 5 other projects) "CONFIG_NEON=y causes platform lockups with certain application/platform combinations (affects: 2)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/507416
<ogra> #GEEZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
<ogra> Selecting previously deselected package iso-codes.
<ogra> Unpacking iso-codes (from .../iso-codes_3.12.1-1_all.deb) ...
<ogra> Selecting previously deselected package libgnomekbd4.
<ogra> Unpacking libgnomekbd4 (from .../libgnomekbd4_2.29.5-0ubuntu1_armel.deb) ..
<ogra> \o/
 * ogra dances
<ogra> asac, so qcow2 solves all our probs it seems
 * ogra is so happy
<ogra> ... and hopes it will survive now and not just hang later
<ogra> doobeydoobeydoo ...
<asac> bug 528524
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 528524 in totem (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "Sound not working in all apps on dove (affects: 2)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528524
<asac> ogra: wait till it finishes
<ogra> indeed
<asac> the current rootstock hangs randomly for me
<ogra> but it looks so good
<asac> bug 512959
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 512959 in nautilus (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 5 other projects) "causes crashes on armel with -Wl,-O1 (affects: 1)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512959
<ogra> i'm convinced its an I/O prob with raw images
<ogra> i suspected that since a while
<ogra> asac, its also a lot faster with qcow2
<plars> ogra: I wanted to start taking a look at the rootstock testplan, is that still accurate that I should pull that 200952 version? or should I just be using what's in trunk?
<plars> oh wait, that's redboot
<plars> nm
 * plars goes to get more caffeine
<ogra> wait for my next upload, if the build i'm testing now finishes then i seem to have a fix for the hang and it should be fully usable
<plars> ogra: but still... should I be using what's in lucid? or just pull the branch and test from that
<ogra> currently the branch only has one more commit beyond the package in lucid
<ogra> oh no !
<ogra> failed in buffer_write(fd) (11, ret=-1): backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/share/doc/cdparanoia/README.gz': No space left on device
<ogra> tar: ./postinst: Cannot write: No space left on device
<ogra> GRRRR !
<plars> guess the autosize needs some work? :)
<ogra> it shouldnt
<ogra> qemu handles it on its own
 * ogra tries with giving a virtual imagesize
<ogra> it would be odd if that was needed though
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
<ogra> is bug 528887 arm specific ?
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 528887 in maximus (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "maximus does not give default focus to newly started apps in combination with efl launcher (affects: 1)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528887
<ogra> (i know i added the tag but it might also happen on x86)
<ogra> asac, should we ping server for bug 517300 ? there was no reaction to me assigning it to them
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 517300 in likewise-open (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "[armel] likewise-open needs porting to ARM (affects: 1)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517300
<asac> ok at least qa team suffers from same desease ;) http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-platform-qa-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<ogra> woah, slackers !
<ogra> :)
<asac> well http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html ;)
<asac> isnt really that heroic either :-P
<asac> i forced the green line down a bit at least ;) ...
<asac> s/down/further down/
<ogra> woah, we slackers !
<ogra> :)
<asac> well. its the final items
<asac> those are usually the most painful ;)
<ogra> report looks fine to me
<asac> exce the webservice ones
<asac> i updated it again with bugs
 * ogra reloads
<ogra> yup
 * ogra gets coffee
<asac> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
<asac> they suffer from a different desease even ;)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> someone secretly loads off work items on them :)
<asac> lets give them likewise ;)
<ogra> heh
<asac> one more doesnt matter i guess
<ogra> should we make that a workitem ?
 * ogra thought making it a critical bug would be enough :)
<asac> ogra: its on our list now
<ogra> yes, saw it
<asac> because of that ;)
<ogra> oh, you added it to our workitems as a foreign task for them ?
<ogra> i.e. it shows up in the tracker ?
<dmart_> Saw the new netbook image... nice (and it seems to mostly work too)
<ogra> :)
<dmart_> purple
<ogra> we'll fix the remaining pieces soon :)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> purple is the new brown !
<dmart_> heh
<dmart_> Colour scheme is a bit interesting in places, but I expect they'll iron that out soon enough
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> file bugs :)
 * dmart_ is too lazy
<dmart_> The artwork and themes usually goes through a bit of churn at this point anyways
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> but if you find something really bugging you dont hesitate :)
<dmart_> sure
<DanaG> dmart_: are you on the artwork team?
<DanaG> I just posted a comment on the mailing-list.
<dmart_> No, just admiring the results
 * ogra hands dmart_ a paintbrush
<ogra> now you are !
<ogra> :)
<dmart_> (you didn't want to do that...)
 * ogra is with Joseph Beuys here ... everything is art ...
<ogra> even code :)
<dmart_> I need to work out how to change vim's syntax colour scheme to match then...
<mturquette> QEMU ran out of disk space during roostock build.  log at,
<mturquette> http://pastebin.com/kGwL89cY
<ogra> mturquette, thats gui or cmdline tool ?
<mturquette> cmdline
<ogra> and what did you pick for the -i stting ?
<ogra> *setting
<ogra> a desktop install should have about 5G
<mturquette> don't have -i.  is that image size?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i'm just experimenting with auto-growing qemu images but i'm not there yet, you need to specify the size
<ogra> mturquette, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch might be helpful
<mturquette> -i is under "additional options" not "required", so i left it out.
<ogra> (a lot will change for lucid though, i want to get to a point where you dont need any options at all)
<mturquette> sure sure.  I was actually going off of a beagle wiki since that is the platform I'm building for.  I'll specify an image size and try again.
<ogra> hmm, i thought even the beagle wiki was setting size ...
<mturquette> ogra: you're right it does.  I must have made an executive decision.
<ogra> that i didnt put it in required options is simply due to the fact that it depends on what you actually install ... rootstock defaults to 1G and thats enough for basic installs ...
<ogra> if you add desktop stuff to it it indeed grows
<mturquette> i'm going with 5GB now.  guess I'll boot over NFS...
<ogra> --seed lxde,gdm might work without -i :)
<GrueMaster> asac: seems accurate
<GrueMaster> imx51 and dove images are fairly stable for me at least.
<ogra> plars, did you find out what was the issue with your dove installs ?
<plars> ogra: I spent quite a bit of time messing with it last night, with a3 image
<ogra> and ?
<ogra> HW ok ?
<plars> ogra: 1st few times, I couldn't even get it to boot successfully, then once I got it up, installed memtester, hit some errors, ran memtester again, no errors
<ogra> weird
<plars> ogra: this morning, having trouble booting again.  Instead of locking up again, it's complaining about the squashfs now
<plars> ogra: rebooting now, I reseated the memory, but I don't have high hopes
<ogra> well, as last resort get the ram replaced
<DanaG> Or if you have multiple sticks of RAM, try with just one, or the other.
<plars> DanaG: I only have the one stick, and I think it's ecc sodimm
<plars> ogra: did we ever determine what kinds of memory would work on these boards?
<plars> ogra: I thought someone was going to try a generic sodimm, NCommander maybe?
<ogra> i never had the balls to do that
<ogra> but afaik it needs to be specific marvell ram
<ogra> i would be to scared to damage the board, i have a 1G DDR2 stick lying here that would fit in the socket though
<ogra> but i also only have a Y0 here
<plars> ogra: at least it's not soldering we need to do on this one :)
 * ogra discovers qemu-nbd ... 
<ogra> heh, yeah
<ogra> though i dont mind soldering
<ogra> hmm, with qemu-nbd i wouldnt need to convert the image back and forth all the time
 * ogra calls it a day ... 
<ogra> i hope i have rootstock fixed by monday ... i'll be around on the weeken
<ogra> d
<Martyn> Does anyone have a system image for the lange 5.1 board?
<NCommander> plars: I never tried changing the RAM, plus you need a customized u-boot to match the board RAM configuration
#ubuntu-arm 2010-03-06
<persia> If anyone could confirm bug #533031, I'd appreciate it.
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 533031 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "command-not-found fails to work on ports architectures (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533031
<ogra_cmpc> hrm, qemu-nbd is really buggy
<ogra_cmpc> grrr
<ogra_cmpc> someone uploaded bonobo ...
 * ogra_cmpc sends some hate to the publisher
<armin76> haha
<ogra_cmpc> asac, hmm, are you pocket copying only the armel binaries ?
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt see -Xbuild1 for other arches
#ubuntu-arm 2010-03-07
<DanaG1> No command 'strace' found, did you mean:
<DanaG1>  Command 'dtrace' from package 'systemtap-sdt-dev' (universe)
<persia> DanaG: On which architecture did you get that?
<DanaG> ARM, ssh login.
<persia> Really!  Hrm.
<DanaG> I also had dbus deny me sending stuff to bluez... had to add myself to 'lp' group.
<persia> So maybe bug #533031 isn't correct.
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 533031 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "command-not-found fails to work on ports architectures (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/533031
<DanaG> maybe it was just fixed.
<persia> Still fails for me for some commands on powerpc.
<persia> Seems to work for others.
 * persia needs to dig more.
<DanaG> weird.
<persia> Anyway, about strace: do you have the 'strace' package installed?
<DanaG> *** glibc detected *** aptitude: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0029d928 ***
<DanaG> nope, didn't have it installed.
<persia> There's clearly something wrong with command-not-found, but install it, and it ought work.
<persia> I wonder if it works for some commands because they happen to be in arch:all packages (so that they are on archive.ubuntu.com)
<DanaG>  Unhandled fault: external abort on non-linefetch (0x1018) at 0x402b5000
<DanaG> I also have other weird issues.  for example, gnome-disk-utility (palimpsest) can't connect to dbus.
<persia> Can you run `ubuntu-bug`?  If so, please file bugs,
<DanaG> hmm, I'm not sure how much of that is just me not having the right stuff installed -- for example, is dbus supposed to deny stuff over ssh?
<DanaG> interesting... it did tell me to install apport.
<persia> DanaG: How did you set up your environment?
<DanaG> I used a minimal rootfs image and kernel from rcn-ee.
<persia> How did you construct the minimal rootfs image, or did you get it also from rcn-ee?
<DanaG> The latter, yes.
<persia> Have to wait until he's about then.  The package relationships *should* enforce it being correct, but I'm not sure the minimal installs get enough testing.
<DanaG> It's also odd that I get "class driver suspend failed for CPU 0"
<DanaG> hmm, I wonder if there
<DanaG> if there's any point to putting kernel in nand with rootfs still on sd card.
<DanaG> eh, probably not.
<persia> On my primary armel device, I put both kernel and rootfs on nand.  How much space do you have in nand?
<DanaG> Just 256 megs for rootfs.
<DanaG> interesting... screen as serial console, with another 'screen' underneath, doesn't resize properly.
<persia> 256MB isn't really enough to fit Ubuntu.
<DanaG> For sure.
<DanaG> hmm, is there anything that WOULD be worth putting there?
<persia> Depends on what you're doing.
<persia> You could put / there with /usr and /var elsewhere, but that may not help that much.
<DanaG> yeah, not worth the pain of /var being separate. =Ã¾
<persia> If you don't install that much, you could probably put /usr/bin there.
<persia> (requires some hackery on setup)
<DanaG> "Class driver suspend failed for cpu0"
<DanaG> weird.
<persia> Very.
<DanaG> actual dmesg doesn't give any additional info.
<DanaG> heh, sensors-detect assumes PCI must exist.
<persia> If you can, please fix that :)
<persia> It should work for i2c with no pci just fine.
<DanaG> hmm, looks like it's too deeply coded to depend on PCI for its looking-around.
<persia> Probably :/
<DanaG> Better logic would be this: check for pci i2c; if not loaded, load them.
<DanaG> Now, even if that fails, go on and check all i2c buses.
<persia> Why?  Shouldn't it check for each bus type and only probe if the bus exists?
<persia> Something like a combination of modprobe and sysfs inspection (to cover in-tree AND external modules)
<DanaG> yeah, or if it's really lazy, just look at already existing i2c devices in i2c-1 through i2c-whatever.
<persia> I think it makes sense to write slightly more robust code :)
<DanaG> well, if I were given a choice between what we have now, and that "just use i2c devices already there" way, I'd choose the latter for this ARM thingy.
<Baybal> do you have mtd support here?
<persia> Baybal: How do you mean "mtd support".  The answer is probably yes, but there are a few bits not yet working perfectly..
<Baybal> mtd booting
<Baybal> and mtd as root
<persia> Those certainly work: the gap is really mtd install.
<persia> So, to get MTD set up like that, you need to boot in some other way, and then format the MTD, set it up for filesystems, and then manually install stuff.
<persia> Right now I like ubifs for / and jffs2 for /boot, but my opinion is changing as I investigate what is required to make install work smoothly.
<persia> DanaG: The trick is that the same code has to work for all architectures: it's a huge pain to try to have the script be different for different arches.
<Baybal> i think jtag install is the only option on the most of devices now
<persia> Baybal: I don't.  Most devices have some way to boot off SD or HD (although you may need to tweak the bootloader)
<DanaG> ah, as it is right now, it DOESN't work without PCI.  bleh.
<persia> DanaG: please fix :)
<Baybal> no, even those last generation advanced socs lacks it
<persia> Baybal: Hrm?  What device do you have that cannot boot off SD or HD?
<Baybal> like my cell phone
<Baybal> lots of others
<Baybal> the only advanced soc which had SD boot I know is TI omap
<persia> i.MX51x does as well.
<persia> But I only have i.MX51x and Orion9x devices, so I don't really know about others.  I think I have some StrongARMs too, but I haven't played with those in a while.
<Baybal> like nvidia tegra, qualcoms...
<Baybal> and most of them are thought as advanced
<Baybal> also samsungs...
<persia> OK.  So, how do the development boards for those platforms boot?
<Baybal> on harmony boards there are standalone nor with bootloader
<Baybal> which then tries to do booting
<Baybal> some manufacturers simply don't have any kind of dev boards
<DanaG> hmm, how about the marvell stuff?
<Baybal> don't know
<DanaG> nvidia tegra... wonder what the driver situation is like for those...
<DanaG> would it be same as nouveau?
<Baybal> much better than most of other arm socs
<Baybal> like qualcomm has tons of code with no documentation
<persia> I doubt that anyone doesn't produce dev boards (although they may be very difficult to get).
<Baybal> and different versions of kernel per device running on the same chips
<persia> From others I hear that marvell can boot off SD.
<persia> (and my onions can definitely boot off HD)
<DanaG> something I wish: I wish somebody would port 2.6.28 kernel to the realtek RTL8186 (Lexra MIPS) thingy.
<persia> DanaG: Have you checked with the Debian MIPS folk?
<DanaG> I've looked at the kernel itself, and it doesn't seem to support Lexra.
<persia> Is there out-of-tree support somewhere?
<DanaG> http://www.sondigo.com/sirocco/overview
<DanaG> Only in 2.4 kernel.  bleh.
<Baybal> like qualcomm have 2 kernel with totally different stuff for 2 phones running exactly the same chip
<DanaG> Oh yeah, and that kernel is not 2.4.32 OR linux-mips 2.4.32 -- it's god-only-knows what.
<DanaG> It's so bad, you might as well buy a beagleboard and a USB sound card. =Ã¾
<DanaG> http://www.sondigo.com/node/229
<Baybal> I think at least a fs image + kernel with embedded initrd would be nice
<Baybal> so it would be possible to flash and boot over jtag
<persia> Baybal: So, what's required to boot over jtag?  We can definitely construct rootsfs and initrds.
<Baybal> Just bootloader and image understandable to it
<Baybal> the mechanism works this way
<Baybal> first you flashes memory over jtag to non boot partition
<Baybal> then flashes bootloader to boot partition
<Baybal> then starts all this things and hope they work
<Baybal> so we need just a well compact set of images in popular flash filesystems
<DanaG> I know for the old Zaurus devices, there was this "kexecboot" loader that was made for tiny in-flash execution.
<DanaG> So, the kexecboot loader then goes off and loads the real kernel.
<Baybal> usually something like das u boot sits as a bootloader
<Baybal> and it would be nice if we would be able to utilise device's stock one
<persia> There's been some work to make kexec() booting work (I think in the mukluk project).
<persia> I don't know that it's widely tested yet.
<Baybal> I think it's far from what is desired
<persia> But for devices that need JTAG to populate the boot space, that approach is probably best.  Otherwise it's hard for end-users to update their kernels.
<persia> Baybal: By which audience?
<Baybal> I think the best would be to utilise bootloaders supplied with device
<Baybal> and moreover, most socs don't have nand boot logic and they use very tiny boot partitions on nors
<Baybal> sometimes so small that things like dasuboot can't fit
<persia> Baybal: I'm a fan of using bootloaders supplied with devices.  Some just don't happen to support loading arbtrary kernels, and these need to be worked around.
<Baybal> yes
<Baybal> probably there are no way other than to have a set of custom bootloaders for every device
<persia> Why?
<persia> In the x86 world, there are about 8 common first-stage bootloaders, and *one* common second-stage bootloader.
<persia> In the ARM world, there are about 4 common monolithic bootloaders.
<persia> There exists no reason beyond lack of communication and cooperation that the same code can't work everywhere (that's kinda the point of portable code).
<Baybal> just because of nand and nor differences for example
<persia> That's just bootloader config.  For example, the i.MX51 can boot from NOR, NAND, or SD, depending on the config with redboot.
<persia> No reason we can't have per-board configs (or even per-install configs), but that doesn't mean we can't have only a few bootloaders.
<Baybal> it's not a problem on devices with a few megabytes of boot flash, but in example on cell phones boot flash can be small as a few kilobytes
<jmc93739653> persia & Baybal:  are there relatively simple ways to have Ubuntu's ARMv7-A images start booting from NOR and shift to NAND?  I'm hoping it is something which does not require custom USB images to alter.  (A bit of a cop out, I know.  :)  )
<persia> jmc93739653: How do you mean "shift"?
<persia> jmc93739653: Typically the monolithic kernel has to exist on some single device.  No reason you can't do something like bootloader-on-NOR, kernel-on-NAND, rootfs-somewhere-else (I do)
<Baybal> yes, we would probably end up doing this
<Baybal> I think there would be no need in custom images, but would be need in custom kernels and bootloaders
<persia> Baybal: No need for images?  How does an install happen?
<jmc93739653> persia: I had finished downloading an earlier Lucid i.MX515 image very late at night, about a month ago. I 'dd' the .img to an SDHC card.  Didn't work (aah, ignorance!), but wanted to ask if the bootloader was a hard-dependency (RedBoot versus u-Boot, for example), or if it could be altered.
<persia> jmc93739653: You can certainly alter it.  I doubt you can use those SD images except on the dev boards they were designed to run on.
<Baybal> just we need to get fs image to be on device flash, then we are free to boot our kernel as we wish
<persia> I know they don't work on my NetWalker.
<persia> Baybal: That's what the images are designed to do :)  But sure, you don't need to use them.
<Baybal> US visa declaration site is such a pain
<jmc93739653> Baybal: I can alter the provided uBoot source & use the BSP supplied Linux kernel in the stead of the image's default.  (I have no qualms about creating custom images.)
<Baybal> yeah you can
<Baybal> Paper forms was much more nicer...
<persia> jmc93739653: The main tricky bit is that you might have to fiddle with flash-installer to properly install new kernels if you're using .deb format for kernel distribution.
<jmc93739653> Baybal: I've been rather impressed at the large UX/workflow disparities between different governmental bodies' online softwares.
<persia> jmc93739653: If you *do* have to fiddle, and you do so in a generic way that keeps other boards working, patches would be appreciated.
<Baybal> The main target now is to get linux arm tree unified and not to have few thousands of forks for every chip
<jmc93739653> persia: Awesome. It's nice having _real_ ARM kit.  The ARMv7-A ISA revision, specifically. The performance improvements stemming from lithographic evolution is quite pleasing.
<jmc93739653> Baybal: It's the only sane path forward, IMO.
<persia> I think we need to take a couple steps with the kernels.
<jmc93739653> Is linux-omap still a radically different branch than Linus' "vanilla" upstream?
<persia> To me, the first step is to move from one-kernel-per-board to one-kernel-per-SoC
<persia> Once there, moving to one-kernel-per-architecture gets easier.
<Baybal> and for now I think we would be forced to have multiple kernels on image, like kernel-{broadcom,tegra,omap,msm,etc}
<persia> jmc93739653: The code is getting closer, but there's still lots of limitations in terms of compiled artifacts.
<jmc93739653> persia: Is #ubuntu-arm's topic information still up-to-date?  I'd love to be of use.  (I'm no expert [far, far from it], but it is always fun to dive head-first into a new area of expertise.)
<jmc93739653> persia: I'm beginning to despair at the state of what appears to be _every_ ARM SoC's GPU's drivers.
<jmc93739653> nVidia's binary blobs seem the least offensive, if only because their Linux x86-32 & x86-64 driver support is always in-tune and on-time.  (Setting aside my ideological/legal misgivings.)
<Baybal> the stock kernel can now work only on a handful of devices which were initially planed as completely open
<persia> jmc93739653: I don't see anything specifically out of date in the topic, except that some of the wiki pages would benefit from a refresh (been on my TODO list for a very long time)
<persia> jmc93739653: And more hands would certainly be welcome.  The three areas that need the most help are more porting (see the FTBFS list), more porting (see the Thumb2 stuff), and testing.
<jmc93739653> I need to get a FPGA device in the next year or two and start fiddling with fundamental GPU hardware implementation details.  I'm hoping ARM's future ISA revisions will aid the use of pure CPU-driven graphics engines.  (Multi-core & SIMD advances similar to Intel's Larrabee New Instructions [LRBni] and Advanced Vector Extensions [AVX], et cetera would help immensely.
<DanaG> My gripe with nvidia is with the legacy stuff:
<persia> Or get an ARM box with PCIe, and use any of the cards for which we have drivers :)
<Baybal> and it would be nice to stick at least with armv7a with thumb, cache, new eabi and have neon as option
<DanaG> All it ever does is segfault the X server.
<DanaG> And then they keep updating it to *segfault* NEW X servers. =Ã¾
<persia> Baybal: The rumours I hear are that we'll be seeing that kind of stabilisation in future releases, but it largely depends on enough factors that I can't be sure.
<Baybal> just I think there are no point to have support of anything older than cortex cores
<Baybal> just because everything older simply is too slow
<jmc93739653> Off topic: I noticed about ten weeks ago ARM announced certified Jazelle support for Android's Dalvik VM.  So much for field  of use restrictions! :)
<Baybal> as i know dalvik doesn't use jazelle
<Baybal> and simply have different bytecode format
<jmc93739653> Baybal: I've been procrastinating too much reading the reference docs for ARMv6 (i.e. ARM11) and ARMv7 (Cortex-??)
<Baybal> armv7a=cortex-a{5,8,9}
<DanaG> Hmm, there's some confusing naming.
<DanaG> so ARM11 is weaker than ARM7?
<Baybal> about 2 times
<Baybal> for cortex a8
<Baybal> 1.5 for a5
<persia> Baybal: lucid doesn't support anything less than ARMv7+vfp+thumb2
<jmc93739653> Baybal: Really?  I could have sworn ARM and the OHA got all lovey during their Solution Center for Android (ARM SCA).
<persia> And I doubt it works reliably on ARMv7 != ARMv7a
<jmc93739653> DanaG: ARMv7 refers to the microarchitectural guarantees for ARMv7 instruction set architecture compliant chips.
<jmc93739653> DanaG: The tell is the "v" between ARM and the numbers following it.
<Baybal> just armv7 cores other armv7a are targeted not for consumer electronics
<DanaG> ah, so is Cortex just a marketing name?
<Baybal> like m and r for something like dishwashers
<Baybal> no
<Baybal> cortex just means armv7*
<persia> Baybal: Are you *sure* you don't want to run Ubuntu on your dishwasher :)
<persia> (but more seriously, yeah, ARMv7a is the only target)
<Baybal> I just want it to play nice on my v7a phone
<Baybal> we can run netbsd on toasters and dishwashers =D
<jmc93739653> DanaG: An ARM1136JF-S, however is a specific ARMv6 compliant CPU design.
<Baybal> so I think some of developers here should propose shift from v7 to v7a
<persia> Baybal: There is already an assumption of v7a, I believe.
<persia> Or rather, I don't think there's any available optimisation to be gained by making changes to more aggressively not support 7m or 7r devices.
<Baybal> just gcc have different -march values
<persia> And I know that there's almost no testing done for anything other than 7a
<persia> Baybal: Precisely which changes to gcc defaults would you recommend?
<Baybal> and I suspect that setting -march to other than armv7a greatly limits gcc in selection of instructions
<jmc93739653> I thought ARMv7-A was a partial superset of ARMv7 ÂµArch; including ARMv7-M and ARMv7-A (dropping the real-time guarantees found in ARMv7-R cores).
<Baybal> there are some instruction set differences
<jmc93739653> Lucid is still using GCC 4.4.x, yes?
<jmc93739653> (GCC-4.5 still being held up by libgcc licensing issues?)
<jmc93739653> Thanks all for the lively channel, by the way, this is great fun. :)
<persia> I think it's also that lucid is in a test-phase preparing for release.
<Baybal> so I hope somebody would ensure that gcc is set for armv7a+thumb only
<jmc93739653> persia: the toolchain has to be locked down by now in the release schedule.  Debian Testing couldm
<jmc93739653> couldn't have moved that fast. (I know I'm presuming here, so there's definitely a margin of error..)
<persia> jmc93739653: We usually make best efforts to lock down at least the major version of the toolchain packages in the first month of each release cycle.  Otherwise it's toohard to keep up with 20,000 packages.
<jmc93739653> persia: Agreed, if there isn't a hard deadline at some point, releases couldn't adhere to any rational schedule.
<persia> Precisely :)
<jmc93739653> persia: Debugging a toolchain _and_ any given kernel, library, application?  That's asking for pain.
<persia> Right, so we tend to freeze toolchain (except for bugfixes for known issues) early, freeze kernel version early (although lots of patches and bugfixes continue), and focus on applications.
<persia> We freeze the application and library versions (mostly) around the middle of the release cycle, and then just try to hammer out all the bugs.
<persia> We've yet to be completely successful, but it works as a model for our release schedules.
<Baybal> and also gcc doesn't set other necessary flags by default, so ensure things like -mthumb-interwork -mthumb -mtpcs-frame -mcallee-super-interworking
<persia> Baybal: Are you sure these aren't being set by Ubuntu gcc by default?  This sounds a lot like a conversation we had at UDS where it was decided to set these by default.
<Baybal> don't know
<persia> Baybal: Please try (qemu if you don't have hardware).  I think most of your concerns have been addressed.
<persia> And I think the rest are intersting, but need to be separated and reviewed individually, after comparison with the current defaults.
<Baybal> can you give a link to image?
<persia> Which kind?  We have Ubuntu Netbook, Kubuntu Netbook, and Ubutu Server.  Ubuntu Netbook gets the most testing.
<persia> Lots of folk use rootstock to generate rootfss to meet their needs.
<Baybal> I mean arm image
<persia> Baybal: So do I :)  Which flavour?
<Baybal> netbook
<persia> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-live/current/ always points at the most recent image.
<persia> It might not work perfectly (depending on the state of the packages when it was constructed).
<Baybal> ok I would check after I finish downloading movie
<persia> Also note that they are currently images for specific SoCs : you may have to extract the rootfs if you don't have one of those SoCs.
<persia> Baybal: Thanks!
<Baybal> have you any experience with a9 boards?
<persia> Not I.
 * jmc93739653 so wishes he had ahold of an A9 MPcore.
<Baybal> also it would be interesting if we are going to run it on a5 machines if there would be any other than cellphones
<persia> a5?
<Baybal> yes
<Baybal> smartphone market are probably going to separate on a8 for high end devices and a5 retaining current arm11 position
<persia> What is a5?
 * persia has not previously encountered the term
<Baybal> arm cortex-a5
<persia> What instruction set does that support?
<Baybal> v7a
<persia> Oh, cool.  No worries then: it ought just work.
<Baybal> it's going as a change for arm11
<persia> If it's a low-end design, I'd expect to see it also in NAS boxes, home routers, etc.
<Baybal> probably it's mostly for cellphones
<Baybal> as it's our of order, neon, but not superscalar
<persia> Is it also cheaper than a8 or a9?
<Baybal> much more
<jmc93739653> I'm rather bewildered as to why ARM didn't just roll a completely in-house, no third-party IP graphics chip for their Mali line.  They'd have pragmatists ditching ImgTec's PowerVR & Qualcomm Adreno graphics cores ASAP.
<persia> Then yeah, I definitely expect to see it in NAS, home routers, watches, etc.
<Baybal> but I haven't yet seen any soc based on it with my own eyes yet
<persia> jmc93739653: Ask the same question for any CPU design firm for any architecture :)
<jmc93739653> Baybal: I _knew_ the A9 had superscalar OoOE.  I tried finding primary sources a few months back and no joy.
<Baybal> they license mali core just as they do with cpu cores
<jmc93739653> I do find it rather interesting ARM had the benefit of implementing decades old microarchitecture CPU improvements, as process nodes and thermal budgets permit, where as Intel has to strip out the power-intensive features and invest deeply into more and more advanced fabrication nodes.  I'm sure IBM chuckled at Intel during x86's evolution.
<Baybal> a5 don't have superscalar execution because it's thought that for crunching big amounts of data the chip would use various dsps and accelerators
<Baybal> the reason is you don't have to have ooo, superscalarity, mmu and fpu to drive dishwashers
<persia> Well, depends on the dishwasher :)
<Baybal> but anyway a5 is going to be faster than arm11
<jmc93739653> Baybal: Do you think there are any serious chances ARM would work with the FSF (akin to the Linux Driver Project) to improve [L]GPL toolchain support for their designs?  (Firms deviating from standard IP core offerings would probably not elect to do this)
<persia> jmc93739653: toolchain isn't the issue at this point.  It's all kernel + drivers.
<jmc93739653> Baybal: Nice.  I had read the A5 was going to be a dog.
<persia> comparatively, surely, but for most applications that oughtn't matter.
<persia> We're arguing about different things.
 * jmc93739653 facepalms. persia:  you are correct re: kernel & drivers.  I conflated toolchain & driver issues.  I'm going to need to sleep soon.
<persia> I completely agree that you can't make a public bug private.
<persia> ECHANNEL :)
<persia> Apologies for those who may have misunderstood. My comment "ECHANNEL" was about *my* traffic being in the wrong place.
<persia> Everyone else should feel free to continue.
<persia> I just happened to set the wrong focus when having a separate conversation.
<jmc93739653> I'm happy I haven't entered my IRC passcode in a channel; plain-text, naturally.
<persia> I've made that mistake :)  I've also pasted by SSH passkey, my user password, my GPG passkey, etc.
<persia> Most of these can be resolved by quick action and judicious choices of passwords, but ... :)
<jmc93739653> There's always the eight year old password that I use when I'm dog-tired that I know I'll blurt out some day _juuust_ as the search engine crawlers scan wherever I leaked it.
<persia> heh.
<rlaager> This might be blasphemy here, but I'm wondering how hard it would be to recompile the Ubuntu Lucid for armv5t.
<ogra_cmpc> might take you some months (depending onh the amount of pacages you want) and a buildd setup ... and indeed you would need to fix breakage you find along the go
<rlaager> Hmm, it's probably not worth it then. I was hoping there wasn't a huge delta from Debian (which still works on armv5).
<ogra_cmpc> if you want v5 better go with debian
<ogra_cmpc> or stick with jaunty :)
<persia> Debian is ARMv4, not ARMv5.
<suihkulokki> which is 95% irrelevant
<persia> But it's not that much *code* delta, it's just toolchain and compile delta.  There's no reason one can't construct an ARMv5 repo, except nobody has (recently) invested the time into doing so.
<persia> suihkulokki: Hrm?  Aren't there a bunch of devices that aren't ARMv5 that Debian supports?
<suihkulokki> persia: I mean ARMv4 vs ARMv5
<persia> I thought that there was some stuff that needed ARMv4.
<ogra_cmpc> openmoko, no ?
<persia> I thought openmoko was almost-but-not-quite ARMv4 and needed special hacks.
 * persia may well be misinformed, but would appreciate correctyion
<suihkulokki> ....
 * ogra_cmpc sighs about qemu ...
 * amitk is surprised there is not editor in our initramfs!
<amitk> *no
<ogra_cmpc> so i went back with the qemu-system-arm binary to 0.11.1 and still see the hangs
<persia> amitk: Why does one need one?
<ogra_cmpc> amitk, there is ed :)
<persia> and busybox-sed
<amitk> persia: to edit files if you've messed your sysstem?
<amitk> ogra_cmpc: no ed either
<ogra_cmpc> and you should be able to chroot into /root and copy back and forth files
<amitk> ogra_cmpc: what if /root is the problem ;)
<persia> amitk: There's nothing that you can't do with busybox sed.  Users who want a good interface are encouraged to boot something else and chroot :)
<ogra_cmpc> i.e. copy the file you want to change into /root ... chroot ... edit, exit, copy back
<ogra_cmpc> amitk, hmm, you could create a vim hook for initramfs-tools that just copy_execs vim
<ogra_cmpc> indeed if your system is already unbootable you are screwed
<persia> amitk: From your preboot environment can you mount anything?  That's often a good way to get to executables.
<aaron_liu> http://pastehtml.com/view/5tp3b34.txt
<aaron_liu> rootstock failed
<amitk> persia: yeah, I can get to break=init. So chroot should probably work
<aaron_liu> http://pastehtml.com/view/5tp3b34.txt
<ogra_cmpc> aaron_liu, what release are you trying to build and whats your host release ?
<aaron_liu> the latest release
<ogra_cmpc> lucid on lucid ?
<aaron_liu> sudo apt-get install rootstock
<ogra_cmpc> on a lucid system ?
<ogra_cmpc> (10.04 dev)
<ogra_cmpc> (use lsb_release -a to find out if you dont know)
<aaron_liu> Distributor ID: Ubuntu
<aaron_liu> Description:    Ubuntu 9.10
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<ogra_cmpc> 9.10
<ogra_cmpc> and what are you trying to build ? (did you ude the -d option for rootstock ?)
<aaron_liu> i have update to 9.10 from 9.04
<aaron_liu> no
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, that should work ... it does for others ....
<ogra_cmpc> you can easily modify the rootstock script in /usr/bin/rootstock though
<ogra_cmpc> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~project-rootstock-developers/project-rootstock/trunk/revision/53
<ogra_cmpc> thats the change you need
<aaron_liu> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumArm
<aaron_liu> i just follow the steps to compile chrome for arm
<ogra_cmpc> yes, that should wor
<ogra_cmpc> k
<aaron_liu> but i don't know where i should to modify
<aaron_liu> but i don't know where i should to modify   /usr/bin/rootstock
<ogra_cmpc> open it in an editor (with sudo) then look for the line that mounts /dev/pts
<ogra_cmpc> relatively far at the bottom of the script
<ogra_cmpc> before the mount command you add:
<ogra_cmpc> mkdir -p /dev/pts
<ogra_cmpc> then save the file
<aaron_liu> E486: Pattern not found: mounts \/dev\/pts
<ogra_cmpc> mount
<ogra_cmpc> not mounts
<aaron_liu> E486: Pattern not found: mount \/dev\/pts
<ogra_cmpc> just look for \/dev\/pts
<aaron_liu> yeah found it
<aaron_liu> follow   echo "I: Starting basic services in VM"
<aaron_liu> but how to do that next
<aaron_liu> do i need mkdir -p  /proc /
 * lool just discovers about slind.org; apparently a wider set of tools than just emdebian, with some corporate backing
<lool> Not that active in the last year though
<aaron_liu> ogra_cmpc
<aaron_liu> and then i  what should i do
<aaron_liu> and then  what should i do
<ogra_cmpc> add the line i gave you above
<ogra_cmpc>  mkdir -p /dev/pts
<aaron_liu> yeah ,i have down
<ogra_cmpc> directly above the line where /dev/pts gets mounted
<aaron_liu> how to do next ?
<ogra_cmpc> save the file
<ogra_cmpc> then run it again
<aaron_liu> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> should work now
<aaron_liu> run again , how to run
<aaron_liu> ?
<aaron_liu> i follow the  steps  http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumArm
<ogra_cmpc> right
<aaron_liu> Building a rootfs section command
<ogra_cmpc> yes, do that
<aaron_liu> sudo rootstock --fqdn beagleboard --login ubuntu --password temppwd --imagesize 2G --seed xfce4,gdm,pkg-config,python,perl,g++,bison,flex,gperf,libnss3-dev,libgtk2.0-dev,libnspr4-0d,libasound2-dev,libnspr4-dev,libgconf2-dev,libcairo2-dev,libdbus-1-dev,libstdc++6-4.4-dev,libexpat1-dev,libxslt1-dev,libxml2-dev,libbz2-dev  --dist karmic
<aaron_liu> but it need long time to download packages and unzip its
<ogra_cmpc> yes, thats normal
<aaron_liu> i think there should be a good method to avoid it
<ogra_cmpc> avoid what ?
<aaron_liu> download  pkgs
<ogra_cmpc> use an apt proxy
 * ogra_cmpc uses approx
<ogra_cmpc> or a local package mirror
<aaron_liu> i mean if each time runs the system .i need so long time to download pkgs
<ogra_cmpc> yes, a package proxy or local mirrir help with that
<aaron_liu> where i can got the rootfs
<aaron_liu> where i can got the rootfs in he end
<aaron_liu> where i can got the rootfs in the end
<ogra_cmpc> the script tells you where it stored the tarball
<aaron_liu> BUILDDIR=$(mktemp -d)
<ogra_cmpc> (similar to how it told you about the logfile when your build failed before)
<ogra_cmpc> lool, so i went backwards through the binary packages replacing qemu-system-arm ... i can even reproduce the hang with the two karmic versions ...
<ogra_cmpc> (which i cant on a krmic system)
<aaron_liu> root@aaron-ubuntu:/tmp/tmp.bypTc6Upgl/tmpmount# ls
<ogra_cmpc> i'm starting to wonder if its an issue with the hostkernel?host system
<aaron_liu> root@aaron-ubuntu:/tmp/tmp.bypTc6Upgl/tmpmount# ls
<aaron_liu> debootstrap  lost+found  var
<aaron_liu> it's the fsroot ?
<ogra_cmpc> its the tmeporary dir
<aaron_liu> is it /tmp/tmp.bypTc6Upgl/qemu-armel-201003071903.img ?
<ogra_cmpc> no, it is what comes out in the end
<ogra_cmpc> you just point to random pieces that are used to assemble the final thing
<ogra_cmpc> just wait until its done, i tells you where it copies the final tarball
<lool> Err build-essential rebuild as part of mass-thumb2 rebuilds?  :)
<ogra_cmpc> seems it was on the list :)
<ogra_cmpc> likely a false positive
<aaron_liu>     LANG=C tar czvf ../armel-rootfs-$STAMP.tgz . >>$LOG 2>&1
<ogra_cmpc> i think the list criteria was only: not uploaded and not imported from debian during lucid
<lool> ogra_cmpc: And some arch: any package I hope
<aaron_liu> I: Retrieving .....
<aaron_liu> I: Validating.....
<ogra_cmpc> lool, i dont know, i didnt assemble that list, i think it comes from some script from doko
<ogra_cmpc> intrestig, build-essential is any ???
<lool> yes
<lool> because the deps differ on architectures
<ogra_cmpc> i thought thats only a metapackage
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<aaron_liu> so long time to  waste each time i runs rootstock for download pkgs ,why it cannot connot runs as begin as  prevoius time
<aaron_liu> so long time to  waste each time i runs rootstock for download pkgs ,why it cannot runs  begin as  prevoius time
<ogra_cmpc> because the packages are individually selectable ... it doesnt know in the beginning which dependencies are needed
<ogra_cmpc> it would be possible to generate the dependency chain in advance with germinate... but its unlikely that this would be any faster
<aaron_liu> ok,i known
<ogra_cmpc> the lucid (10.04) version of rootstock has a cache function but you need at least one successfull run and you can only do the same run again subsequently
<aaron_liu> who have done for chrome in the arm ubuntu-arm platfom
<ogra_cmpc> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser
<ogra_cmpc> there is a team https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team
<aaron_liu> it's not for arm
<ogra_cmpc> sure it is
<ogra_cmpc> see the "builds" links on the first page i posted
<aaron_liu> it desn't show it for arm
<ogra_cmpc> it does for me
<aaron_liu> http://ppa.launchpad.net/chromium-daily/ppa/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-armel/Packages.bz2
<aaron_liu> it for arm ?
<ogra_cmpc> binary-armel is for arm, yes
<ogra_cmpc> note that there are no chromium packages for karmic ... chromium is in the archive for lucid though
<aaron_liu> bin/installer: line 15: udevd: command not found
<ogra_cmpc> udevd is installed in the first stage, did zou change any other stuff or fiddle in the directories you posted above during the build ?
<ogra_cmpc> s/zou/you/
<aaron_liu> http://pastebin.com/vZhM9ddA
<ogra_cmpc> line 433 is your problem
<ogra_cmpc> is the qemu-arm-static package installed on your system ? seems like your machine cant execute armel binaries
<ogra_cmpc> (i guess that also caused the /dev/pts issue before)
<aaron_liu> mkdir -p /dev/pts
<aaron_liu> mount -t proc proc /proc
<ogra_cmpc> no
<aaron_liu> mount -t sysfs sys /sys
<aaron_liu> mount -t devpts devpts /dev/pts
<aaron_liu> udevd --daemon &
<ogra_cmpc> see your first paste, it has exactly the same error as line 433 in your second paste
<aaron_liu> but how  should i do
<ogra_cmpc> chroot: cannot run command `debootstrap/debootstrap': Exec format error
<ogra_cmpc> your system isnt properly set up, the qemu-arm-static package cant execute armel binaires
<ogra_cmpc> the /dev/pts issue was only a subsequent error
<aaron_liu> http://pastebin.com/gfYdkiiY
<ogra_cmpc> cack your installation of qemu-arm-static ... pasting random lines from the rootstockj script doesnt help
<ogra_cmpc> your system apparently cant execute armel binaries
<aaron_liu> i think   line num  611 udevd --daemon &    cause error
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> again ... your qemu-arm-static package is not properly installed
<ogra_cmpc> fix that and it will work
<ogra_cmpc> it has nothing to do with udev or /dev/pts
<aaron_liu> but where i can find qemu-arm-static
<ogra_cmpc> it is a dependency fo rootstock and should be installed already
<ogra_cmpc> but something is wrong with it
<ogra_cmpc> are you using an ubuntu kernel on your machine ?
<aaron_liu> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> qemu-arm-static uses the binfmt support of the ubuntu kernel
<aaron_liu> from rootstock-201003071903.log
<aaron_liu> first line Formatting '/tmp/tmp.bypTc6Upgl/qemu-armel-201003071903.img', fmt=raw size=2147483648
<aaron_liu> bu i couldn't find the file '/tmp/tmp.bypTc6Upgl/qemu-armel-201003071903.img'
<ogra_cmpc> yes ?
<ogra_cmpc> no, it gets removed during build
<ogra_cmpc> or rather at the end of the build
<ogra_cmpc> its a temporary file
<aaron_liu> but how to do that for me
<ogra_cmpc> what ?
<aaron_liu> how i should to do
<aaron_liu> what can i do
<ogra_cmpc> fix your qemu-arm-static install
<aaron_liu> apt-get install qemu-arm-static
<aaron_liu> ?
<ogra_cmpc> try: sudo apt-get install --reinstall qemu-arm-static
<ogra_cmpc> that will force a reinstall
<ogra_cmpc> also try sudo /etc/init.d/binfmt-support restart
<aaron_liu> have down
<ogra_cmpc> also have a look at /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/
<ogra_cmpc> there should be a file called arm in there
<aaron_liu> binfmt_misc on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
<aaron_liu> when i mount
<aaron_liu> binfmt_misc on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
<aaron_liu> right ?
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> <ogra_cmpc> also have a look at /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/
<ogra_cmpc> <ogra_cmpc> there should be a file called arm in there
<ogra_cmpc> look in the directory
<aaron_liu> root@aaron-ubuntu:~# ls /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/
<aaron_liu> arm  cli  python2.4  python2.5  python2.6  register  status
<ogra_cmpc> lool, oh, looking at that in lucid i seem to have founda bug :) the binfmt handler for armel points to qemu-arm-static instead of qemu-armeb-static :)
<ogra_cmpc> err
<ogra_cmpc> the binfmt handler for armeb i mean
<ogra_cmpc> aaron_liu, that looks good
<persia> ogra_cmpc: Um, everything looks right to me.  Are you sure?
<ogra_cmpc> ogra@osiris:~$ cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/qemu-armeb|grep interpreter
<ogra_cmpc> interpreter /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static
<persia> Oh, indeed.
<ogra_cmpc> persia, given that lool enabled a specific qemu-armeb-static binary build i'd expect the binfmt handler to use it :)
<persia> That package has had *lots* of uploads recently.  Just do it again :)
 * persia needs to update mk-sbuild and pbuilder-dist now
<ogra_cmpc> i doubt most of the handlers work though
<ogra_cmpc> ppc might with luck ...
<persia> So what?
<ogra_cmpc> i wouldnt rely on them
<persia> The important bit isn't whether they work, but whether the interfaces are sane.
<ogra_cmpc> armel is the only tested one atm
<persia> I don't intend to do so.
<persia> But I'd rather unpack the special-case stuff.
<ogra_cmpc> ah, i thought you wanted to make the builder tools point to them
<persia> I did.
<persia> Still do, actually.
<persia> Or rather, I want to not special-case arm in the tools.
<ogra_cmpc> ah
 * ogra_cmpc still tries to track down the qemu hang
<persia> lool: When you have a chance, could you share your strategy?  I'd be happy to help with various bits, but don't want to duplicate work.
<ogra_cmpc> i dont get why it doesnt happen in karmic
<ogra_cmpc> i use the karmic qemu-system-arm binary and my old qemu kernel now ...
<ogra_cmpc> but it still hangs
 * ogra_cmpc replaces qemu-img with dd now
<aaron_liu> root@aaron-ubuntu:~# cat /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/qemu-armeb|grep interpreter
<aaron_liu> cat: /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/qemu-armeb: No such file or directory
<aaron_liu> arm  cli  python2.4  python2.5  python2.6  register  status in the /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc dir
<aaron_liu> ls /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc
<aaron_liu> arm  cli  python2.4  python2.5  python2.6  register  status
<ogra_cmpc> aaron_liu, yes i was not talking to lool about lucid, you rin karmic there only the arm binfmt hook exists
<persia> aaron_liu: qemu-armeb is brand new: you only care about /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/arm
<ogra_cmpc> hrm, dd didnt help either, i dont get what else could be wrong
<lool> ogra_cmpc, persia: I copied the other binfmts from Debian; it might be a bug I copied over (armeb versus arm)
<lool> persia: Strategy on which part?  I also would like to remove arm-specific handling
<lool> persia: I had in mind to rename build-arm-chroot to build-qemu-chroot or something along these lines; perhaps qemu-debootstrap
<lool> I started some wiki pages, but these are too rough at the moment, I was too busy to finish them last week
<lool> Laibsch: heya
<lool> Laibsch: Thanks for your emails; will check it out
<Laibsch> hey!
<Laibsch> great
<Laibsch> I have a few stupid questions
<Laibsch> Is armv4, armv5, etc. akin to i386, i486, i586, etc?
<lool> Kind of
<lool> It's usually more complex than that because there are sub-ISAs associated with armvN families
<Laibsch> yes
<Laibsch> It's a big mess
<lool> For instance armv5 only comes in Thumb flavors
<lool> And then Thumb itself was extended multiple times
<Laibsch> and I so far successfully avoided to understand it
<lool> and on an orthogonal scale, you have the FPU ISA; 387 or SSE for Intel, and either a lot of old stuff on ARM or VFP with associated versions
<lool> and optional NEON or other VFP extensions
<Laibsch> OK, so it's not linear like in the Intel case, but lots of different things that may or may not be supported (with the later CPUs generally supporting more, of course)
<Laibsch> ?
<lool> There are some "implications" in the case of intel code as well, but it's more backwards compatible than arm is
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> thanks
<Laibsch> I guess that is sufficient for me for now as far as the CPU variations are concerned
<Laibsch> what determines the minimum level of CPU support a binary needs?  Is that a flag given to gcc, determined by the host on which it runs or something else entirely?
<ogra_cmpc> lool, ++ on qemu-debootstrap ...
<lool> Laibsch: You mean at build time?
<Laibsch> well, both
<Laibsch> for example, can a very recent arm cpu output armv4 code?
<lool> Laibsch: It's mostly the flags you pass to gcc, but it can also be what binaries you combine together
<Laibsch> can I force it to output armv4?
<Laibsch> OK
<lool> Laibsch: hardware has nothing to do with build output
<Laibsch> so, it's got nothing to do with the compile host
<lool> Since you can cross-compile arm from i386
<Laibsch> OK, good
<Laibsch> Well, I want to avoid cross-compilation
<persia> lool: I like the qemu-debootstrap name.
<Laibsch> I want to use all the debian-goodies out there
<Laibsch> that are generally not cross-compile-aware
<lool> Laibsch: If you're running a Debian or Ubuntu armel userspace, it might be able to output binaries using a different target architecture than what Debian or Ubuntu targets, but you have to keep in mind that your binary might get linked to stuff such as libgcc or of course runtime libs such as libc
<persia> lool: Do you need help with qemu-debootstrap, or are you already making progress there?  The pbuilder-dist and mk-sbuild changes I'm confident about doing myself.  qemu-debootstrap needs a complete rewrite of build-arm-chroot (proper options handling for one).
<lool> In which case you need to rebuild these
<lool> persia: I can do it I guess
<Laibsch> lool: that's kind of the idea
<Laibsch> I understand Ubuntu does not support older arm CPU
<Laibsch> The devices I currently own are all armv5te max
<persia> lool: Up to you.  I don't mind doing it if you've got other stuff (as you've already done most of the heavy lifting)
<persia> ogra_cmpc: Do you care about the contents of qemu-debootstrap as long as it's call-compatible for rootstock?
 * ogra_cmpc wonders what else to look for to track down the hang ... i ruled out qemu-system-arm, the kernel, qemu-img
<Laibsch> lool: I intend to compile the binaries elsewhere and then work out the kinks you mentioned (although I will likely hit more than enough bumps where I have no idea how to smooth them out)
<ogra_cmpc> persia, rootstock doesnt even use the script :)
<persia> ogra_cmpc: Oh.  Didn't it used to do that?
<ogra_cmpc> it still does a debootstrap --foreign ... all it uses is qemu-arm-ststic to chroot into the rootfs for the second stage run
<persia> Aha.  Then you don't care at all.
<ogra_cmpc> persia, no, because there is no qemu-arm-static in jaunty
<persia> Right.
<ogra_cmpc> in jaunhty it does the second stage in a VM
<ogra_cmpc> which is horribly slow
<persia> lool: I should have time to work on this on Tuesday, so I'll take a swing if you haven't first.  I want to get the updates to u-d-t in before betafreeze.
<ogra_cmpc> heh
 * ogra_cmpc just had a weird idea
<ogra_cmpc> i wonder if it would work to run a VM, export proc through nbd and mount that inside a chroot
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, i suspect /proc/self etc wouldnt work
<Laibsch> http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/juggling-your-arms-in-karmic-and-no-more-excuses/ I hope this does what I've been looking for
<Laibsch> eFfeM1: that may be interesting for your as well ^^^
<Laibsch> -r
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, works for everything but mono stuff
<Laibsch> first thing I want to test is scim/uim/ibus
<Laibsch> then anki ;-)
<Laibsch> if I go wild, I'll have a look at compiling opie
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<Laibsch> but basically, it's more about getting used to ubuntu-arm
<Laibsch> need to get my feet wet
<aaron_liu> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumArm
<aaron_liu> does i need the cross-compile
<aaron_liu> ?
<aaron_liu> for build the rootstock ?
<ogra_cmpc> no
<aaron_liu> does i need the cross-compile for build the rootstock ?
<aaron_liu> no need ?
<ogra_cmpc> no
<aaron_liu> Get:289...........
<aaron_liu> right/
<aaron_liu> right ? this time ?
<ogra_cmpc> looks like its downloading packages in the VM
<aaron_liu> but how long it would be
<ogra_cmpc> just wait, it takes a while
<aaron_liu> great
<aaron_liu> thank for ur kind and help
<ogra_cmpc> youre welcome
<aaron_liu> ogra_cmpc witch  chip u used
<aaron_liu> ogra_cmpc witch  arm chip u used
<ogra_cmpc> freescale imx51 and marvell dove ... i also have an old begleboard
<aaron_liu> I use th tcc8900
<aaron_liu> i down't know if can runs
<aaron_liu> i down't know if it can runs
<ogra_cmpc> it can run karmic (9.10) but not lucid (10.04)
<aaron_liu> what 's it take room of ur ubuntu-os for arm
<aaron_liu> with chromium ?
<ogra_cmpc> that really depends what kind of desktop you run
<aaron_liu> i think it need 4G flash at least
<aaron_liu> i just want to run smallest sys
<ogra_cmpc> i think with LXDE you can run in around 1G
<ogra_cmpc> probably 2G
<ogra_cmpc> never tried it
<aaron_liu> it's include the x-11 it takes to much room
<ogra_cmpc> X should only take 1-200MB
<aaron_liu> it's include the x-11 it takes too much room,and if who port the chromium browser to the gtk+dfb,i think it so great challage
<lool> persia: First pass http://paste.ubuntu.com/390382/
<lool> Untested yet
<ogra_cmpc> lool, why die if you dont need qemu, just switch silently to std debootstrap
<lool> ogra_cmpc: Just not implemented yet
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<lool> In particular, this should also reject biarch; using qemu-i386 isn't a good idea on amd64
<ogra_cmpc> heh, yeah
<aaron_liu> what's the difference between lucid with  Karmic ?
<lool> 6 months
<aaron_liu> what's the difference between lucid with  Karmic ?i am  beganner of ubuntu
<aaron_liu> who can tell me the difference
<eFfeM1> Laibsch: thanks for the link
<lool> Laibsch: Usually you don't reuse the toolchain to do rebuilds but use a different one unless you're just changing feature flags of the toolchain; if you're going to rebuild for another arch, it's best to rebuild the toolchain (it's part of the list of packages anyway, and you want to make sure that the rebuilt packages are using the new toolchain)
<ogra_cmpc> lool, so, my hang seems to be related to imagesize ... if i use 1G all the unpacking gets through, if i use something like 4G i get the hang, do you know if there is any limitation in qemu causing that ?
<Laibsch> lool: hm, you kind of lost me here.
<lool> ogra_cmpc: You could try using a 4G image with a small block size
<Laibsch> What I'm trying to do is get something set up so that I can compile packages from the debian archives for use on an arm device
<lool> Laibsch: For instance if you rebuild with e.g. --no-stack-protector, you don't need to rebuild the toolchain first (I think)
<Laibsch> If I can get something to run on my spitz that would be great but it is my understanding that is currently being phased out (I certainly hope it will be phased back in)
<ogra_cmpc> lool, hmm do you think qemu-img makes any difference in blocksizes based on imagesize ?
<aaron_liu> Get 415 :......
<aaron_liu> how many pkgs to download
<lool> ogra_cmpc: qemu-img no, but mkfs.ext[234] change block size depending on the image size
<ogra_cmpc> lool, oooh !
 * ogra_cmpc never thought of that
<lool> Laibsch: Probably the script which I'm working on would give you the proper local setup for qemu syscall emulation
<ogra_cmpc> aaron_liu, it should have told you somewhere up in the lig
<ogra_cmpc> *log
<lool> Laibsch, persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/390390/ qemu-debootstrap take 2; finishes a bootstrap here
<Laibsch> lool: I assume I'd want to do that if my target device did not have the stack protector.  I don't know, really.  I just know the device I have.  The good thing in OE is that there are machine configurations where still information is listed centrally.  Would something like this be possible for ubuntu-arm?
<lool> Laibsch: stack-protector is a toolchain feature, not a hardware one
<Laibsch> my head is spinning
<Laibsch> OE was good at hiding that kind of complexity
<Laibsch> I never had to bother
<lool> Laibsch: I guess it would make sense to have a db of machine <-> features somewhere, but usually we expect hackers doing archive rebuilds for a target device to know it by heart anyway
<lool> Laibsch: So e.g. if you're targetting a N810, you should know it's v6 + vfp
<Laibsch> I wouldn't ;-)
<lool> Laibsch: I think you're correct that it's going to become an improper assumption
<lool> Laibsch: We should aim at hiding this away
<Laibsch> over time, yes
<aaron_liu> lig
<lool> Laibsch: Do you have fast connectivity?
<Laibsch> eventually it would be good to "dumb it down" so that even stupid people like me can use it ;-)
<aaron_liu> ?
<aaron_liu> lig?
<ogra_cmpc> *log
<lool> lig!
<Laibsch> lool: depends on your definition of fast.  When I am in Asia, I usually have 100MBit, but then it's more a problem of latency (really annoying).  Over here, I have a few MBit down.  Not really that fast by today's standards.  Why?
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, stay in asia then ... germany is to cold anyway :)
<lool> Laibsch: if you want to create an armel chroot as discussed on the link you mentionned earlier, that's relevant
<lool> Ok; script appears to work; now need to finish the biarch stuff
<aaron_liu> who knows the irc channal of chromium-browser-arm
<Laibsch> ogra_cmpc: Asia is not as cold when you look on the thermometer, but inside the poorly insulated houses it's freezing.  Summer and winter are more agreeable in Europe, me thinks, and thus spend them here.
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, if you create chroots/images more often, use an apt proxy
 * Laibsch already does
<ogra_cmpc> right, then lool's question is not as important :)
<Laibsch> OK
<lool> He still has to fetch them a first time!
<aaron_liu> i'am in asia
<ogra_cmpc> right
<Laibsch> I'm patient ;-)
<aaron_liu> so cool in this days
<Laibsch> faster is of course better.  but my connection here is not that slow as to be unusable.
<aaron_liu> so cool in this days in asia area
<Laibsch> aaron_liu: let me try to cheer you up.  We frequently had -20Â° this winter
<Laibsch> and just yesterday we had 25 cm of fresh snow
<aaron_liu> haa
<aaron_liu> chree up
<aaron_liu> cheers
<aaron_liu> where r u
<Laibsch> lool: I also have access to a build host in a data center.  that machine has 100MBit as well.  and is much faster CPU as well.
<Laibsch> aaron_liu: pretty much right in the middle of .de
<aaron_liu> wecome to shanghai china
<aaron_liu> i never go aboard , no chance
<aaron_liu> haa
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, where do you sit atm ?
<ogra_cmpc> <-- Kassel
<Laibsch> on a chair ;-)
<ogra_cmpc> haha
<Laibsch> ogra_cmpc: a little further west
<aaron_liu> it's night this time in the shanghai
<Laibsch> about an hour's drive
<ogra_cmpc> ah, like solingen etc
<Laibsch> Sauerland
<ogra_cmpc> yup
<Laibsch> lool:     log "W:" "$0 is deprecated, please use qemu-debootstrap"
<Laibsch> should I rather use qemu-debootstrap?
<aaron_liu> what's time in ur location
<ogra_cmpc> 4pm
<aaron_liu> here is 23:05
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, its just a warning
<Laibsch> yes
<aaron_liu> ogra_cmpc  but where r u
<Laibsch> but while I'm starting I may as well use the latest tools
<ogra_cmpc> but the plan is to make build-arm-chroot arch independent
<aaron_liu> de have many time zone ?
<ogra_cmpc> which means it will be renamed to qemu-debootstrap
<ogra_cmpc> aaron_liu, nope, just one
<lool> Laibsch: Not sure what you mean
<lool> Laibsch: It's only when the script is symlinked as build-arm-chroot that the deprecation warning will be printed
<ogra_cmpc> or if you saved it as build-arm-chroot :)
<Laibsch> yes, but I was wondering if qemu-debootstrap was preferred over that script
<lool> Laibsch: That script is qemu-debootstrap
<Laibsch> hehe
<Laibsch> maybe s/use/rename\ this\ script\ to/ ?
<ogra_cmpc> it will be in a package in the end
<Laibsch> ok
<ogra_cmpc> users shouldnt rename package content
<ogra_cmpc> the old name was build-arm-chroot ... the proof of concept stuff i created in karmic is now being generalized by lool to be less hackish and arch independent
<aaron_liu> canada have a place with the name  Hope same with urs
 * ogra_cmpc likes to do a lot of hardcoding ... lool prefers stuff to have tons of switches 
<ogra_cmpc> my hardcoding isnt so good for generalizing usually :)
<lool> ogra_cmpc: Actually I hate switched too, but I hate hardcoding more than switches
<lool> *switches
<ogra_cmpc> heh, yeah
<ogra_cmpc> hardcoding is good for quick shots and proof of concept stuff though
<Laibsch> will there currently be any tangible benefits for me if I use lool's script instead of ogra's scipt (which I understand is packaged in the repo) to compile for arm?
<lool> Laibsch: Probably no difference for armel, no
<lool> Laibsch: but it would help me testing it
<Laibsch> OK
<ogra_cmpc> just that you need to learn the new name soon :)
<Laibsch> I will gladly do that
<Laibsch> I take that as you soliciting feedback
<Laibsch> You got yourself the dumbest person on the planet to do your testing
<Laibsch> I guess that may be a good thing in this case ;-)
<aaron_liu> my hardware board will come tomorrow, i will debug the board ,hope without a hitch
<aaron_liu> in the chat room ,who have debug the ddr2 board ,and give me some suggestion
<Laibsch> lool: http://paste.debian.net/62940/  I did take a look at the script (which I guess won't happen so frequently once it's packaged) but it's really unclear to me how to use it.
<Laibsch> I guess I may need to set deb_arch or arch or both
<Laibsch> Or maybe something more
<lool> Ok this is what I intend to upload http://paste.ubuntu.com/390405/
<ogra_cmpc> sudo qemu-sebootstrap --arch armel <dist> <path to chroot> <mirror>
<lool> has basic bi-arch support
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, the debootstrap docs should apply
<lool> Laibsch: The new version would work in your case, but it would create a chroot of the same arch as yours
<lool> Laibsch: You need to tell it "armel" at some point
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> Will you be uploading this script now?
<Laibsch> I'd prefer that over manually copying your latest changes every time
<lool> Laibsch: I will be uploading it now, but it will need to build on your arch before you get it from the archive, will take some hours
<Laibsch> no problem
<Laibsch> what's the name of the package?
<ogra_cmpc> lool, looks good to me
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, qemu-arm-static or qemu-kvm-extras-static
<Laibsch> Oh, so it's an update to the currently available packages?
<Laibsch> that's even better
 * ogra_cmpc cant get used to the new name
<Laibsch> I already have those installed
<Laibsch> I agree
<Laibsch> but it's not only arm anymore, right?
<Laibsch> then it makes sense
<Laibsch> Did anybody ever use those scripts with pbuilder?
<ogra_cmpc> i'm specifically unhappy about having kvm in the packagename
<lool> Laibsch: Exactly, it would work for e.g. ppc
 * lool should test ppc
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, persia works on the pbuilder stuff based on this
<Laibsch> cool!!!!
<Laibsch> extracool
<Laibsch> can't wait
<aaron_liu> i must go to sleep or i would be late for tomorrow working
<Laibsch> good night!
<ogra_cmpc> and good luck with your chromium hacking
<lool> I should have tested native builds before uploading; bah
<aaron_liu> good Morning
<aaron_liu> bye
<Laibsch> Can I get debootstrap to use an apt-cache?  I looked at the man page but I only see the option to specify a mirror.  Or will debootstrap use the same settings as for the host?
<lool> Laibsch: http_proxy is picked up by default unless you filter it
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, just yse mirror
<lool> Laibsch: a mirror can be specified on the cmdline
<ogra_cmpc> *use
<lool> third argument
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> but it's really not an http_proxy
<Laibsch> nor is it a mirror
<lool> Laibsch: what is it?
<Laibsch> Even though both should work
<lool> a pool of .debs?
<Laibsch> I use apt-cacher-ng
<Laibsch> both approaches should work
<lool> Laibsch: It's a proxy then
<lool> (at least I think it is, I don't actually use apt-cacher-ng)
<ogra_cmpc> sudo qemu-debootstrap --arch armel lucid lucid-chroot http://192.168.2.87:9999/ubuntu-ports
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, ^^^ thats what i use here
<Laibsch> yes, as I said, both approaches will work
<ogra_cmpc> the ip is my wlan0 on my laptop
<Laibsch> But
<Laibsch> I want an unaltered sources.list
<lool> Laibsch: fix it after the build
<ogra_cmpc> debootstrap doesnt create a sources.list
<Laibsch> And apt-cacher-ng is not an http proxy in the strict sense
<lool> ogra_cmpc: Hmm I think it does now
<ogra_cmpc> err ... it does
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<Laibsch> http://paste.debian.net/62945/ is my /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/proxy
<Laibsch> I'd like to have that the same in the debootstrap
<Laibsch> but it's not a big deal
<ogra_cmpc> just cp it after creating the chroot :)
<lool> Laibsch: It does act as a proxy; it's configured as your APT http proxy; anyway, apparently anything works, so don't worry
<Laibsch> thanks, guys
<aaron> i come back
<aaron> root@aaron-ubuntu:/# du -s /tmp/tmp.Vbz1uwY5yt/
<aaron> still 1138632 /tmp/tmp.Vbz1uwY5yt/
<ogra_cmpc> did rootstock finish already ?
<aaron> but building database of manual pages
<aaron> just setting up..........
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, give it time, it takes long ... since it runs in a virtual machine
<aaron> ok, i go to sleep again
<aaron> bye
<ogra_cmpc> it only emulates a 200MHz ARM dont espect it to be fast :)
<ogra_cmpc> bah
<Laibsch> ogra_cmpc: what's the non-masked URL to ubuntu-ports?
<Laibsch> I see
<Laibsch> ports.ubuntu.com
<ogra_cmpc> ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports
<ogra_cmpc> (non ports use /ubuntu)
<Laibsch> which leads to the question of "what is a port"?
<lool> Laibsch: It's just an arbitrary separation to not pollute the main arcihve/publisher
<Laibsch> ok
<Laibsch> makes sense
<lool> everything except i386 is technically a port, even amd64, but we usually refer to ports as in the arches which are on ports.u.c
<lool> apparently, qemu-ppc is much slower than qemu-arm
<ogra_cmpc> lool, i talked to vargrant about it, he said ppc only works on a daily base with a lot of luck
<ogra_cmpc> in debian at least
<lool> I'm just speaking of the emulation
<lool> The chroot creation is taking much longer in the configuring packages state
<ogra_cmpc> well, you are lucky if it finishes at all is what i mean
<lool> It just finished
<ogra_cmpc> great !
<ogra_cmpc> he wasnt that confident
<lool> root@bee:/# dpkg --print-architecture
<lool> powerpc
<lool> root@bee:/# lsb_release -cs
<lool> lucid
<lool> stuff works
<lool> now I can trash it I guess
<ogra_cmpc> i'll tell him to throw away these debian packages and use ubuntus instead :P
<Laibsch> lool: I have installed the lucid qemu-kvm-extras-static package.  To help test your script, there's basically nothing left to do then the usual update routine and continue to run the build-arm-chroot script, right?
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> at some point it will tell you its deprecated
<ogra_cmpc> then swiatch to qemu-debootstrap
<Laibsch> good
<Laibsch> I guess I can do that now ;-)
<Laibsch> qemu-debootstrap does not have a way to configure it with a dotfile, does it?  I loathe those long command-lines, too easy to mess up
<ogra_cmpc> i dont think so ...
<ogra_cmpc> patchews accepted i guess :)
<lool> Laibsch: You can use an alias or a wrapper if you don't want to remember the flags; pretty much everything is a variable though: arch, target, distro
<Laibsch> I should probably do that
<lool> Laibsch: I don't like dotfiles for "pure" tools
<lool> e.g. you don't have a dotfile for cp or expr, they just take their input and produce expected results
<Laibsch> hm
<ogra_cmpc> you usually dont use a ton of options for cp or expr
<lool> if you add a dotfile, you add a point where it might break, a compatibility interface to maintain, another thing to document etc.
<Laibsch> I have another thought
 * lool doesn't use a ton of options for debootstrap, I type the cmdline entirely every time
 * ogra_cmpc too, but i can understand if people find it hard and would like a config file instead
<lool> Laibsch: You can have a higher level tool such as pbuilder pass the right args for you though
<Laibsch> OK
<Laibsch> that would work
<Laibsch> let's see when the pbuilder stuff arrives
<lool> You dont actually need any pbuilder stuff
<lool> But there's a wrapper which will help pass the proper pbuilder opts
<Laibsch> I was thinking that postinst of the package may create a bunch of hardlinks named build-$arch-chroot
<lool> Laibsch: Would pollute the namespace a lot
<Laibsch> that's the intention ;-)
<lool> I could argue we need a build-karmic-chroot and a build-lucid-chroot command too, and there would be no end of combinations   ;-)
<Laibsch> I'm sure ogra_cmp would like it ;-)
<Laibsch> yes, I just find the releases easier to remember
<Laibsch> but as soon as you have a matrix of combinations you're better of with a config file :-P
<Laibsch> better off
<Laibsch> OK, next try
<Laibsch> how about bash-completion?
<lool> Laibsch: feel free; bash-completion for debootstrap and qemu-debootstrap would be nice
<Laibsch> if the package shipped some information for bash-completion, I'd be happy and shut up
<Laibsch> OK
<lool> Laibsch: These are really low-level tools IMO
<Laibsch> I've never actually made a patch for that
<lool> Laibsch: I'd rather encourage you to fix this when you have a higher level "build image for board foo" tool
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, you are right, i would like it ...
<Laibsch> but should be reasonably easy to do
<lool> Laibsch: I personally use zsh BTW   :-)
<ogra_cmpc> but i argued with lool to often about it already :) he does the work so he may do the dedcisions :)
<Laibsch> you won't profit, then
<Laibsch> SOL
<Laibsch> lool: I agree and I'll wait for the higher level tools
<Laibsch> I never really call debootstrap on the command line
<Laibsch> If I do, I would not mind looking at the manpage
<Laibsch> when I do
<Laibsch> but stuff I call very often (and I thought I was going to need to call this script very often) I want to be easy to use
<Laibsch> lool: when do you expect the "build image for board foo" tool?
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, rootstock will grow it for lucid+1
<ogra_cmpc> thats already planned
<Laibsch> ok
<Laibsch> when should we see prereleases?
<ogra_cmpc> rootstock is already available
<Laibsch> what's rootstock anyway?
<ogra_cmpc> just misses the plugin system that will enable per-board profiles
<ogra_cmpc> a rootfs builder
<ogra_cmpc> it would be the tool you would use if you wanted to build a full rootfs thats completely configured ... so you just untar it to an arm device that has bootloader and kernel and are ready to go
<ogra_cmpc> Laibsch, see the rootfs from scratch wikipage from the topic for more info
<ogra_cmpc> (i think also its the tool we have the biggest community participation for atm, i'm pondering to make its improvement a summer of code project for an intrested student)
<ogra_cmpc> lool, what would you think about that ?
<lool> I have three ideas which relate, but which don't really go in the rootstock direction
<ogra_cmpc> thats sad since its adopted by so many people alredy
<ogra_cmpc> why not just improve it
<lool> I personally think it would be worthwhile to enable armel in vm-builder; vm-builder is widely adopted and will be maintained by the server team; vm-builder is extensible and I'm sure we could come up with per-board plugins
<ogra_cmpc> i still dont see vm-builder as the right tool
<lool> I also believe we need to think longer term and invest in a tool to build images after the debootstrap part, I have some ideas about that but it's too early to mention them here
<ogra_cmpc> but i guess we'll disagree on that part forever
<lool> and the third bit is that I think we should couple the second tool with a hosted workflow allowing to request image builds remotely
<ogra_cmpc> right
<ogra_cmpc> lool, but i'd like us to coordinate the efforts before we drift away in different directions here
<lool> ogra_cmpc: I think vm-builder is a nice immediate consolidation point
<ogra_cmpc> i dont think so ... my first criticism point wont ever be solved
<ogra_cmpc> its not shell
<lool> It wont be solved no, I'm not sure it's a drawback though
<ogra_cmpc> rootstock gets so much particiaption from the outside because even a beginner can understand the code and commit a fix very easily
<lool> It allows offering a python API for instance
<ogra_cmpc> sure
<ogra_cmpc> i agree that its definately better for gui integration etc
<lool> Let's agree to disagree
<ogra_cmpc> yeah :)
<ogra_cmpc> sigh so the '-T small' option for mkfs.ext3 doesnt fix the hang
 * ogra_cmpc tries to just set the blocksize
<ogra_cmpc> lool, whats the biggest image you have used yet with lucid qemu ?
<ogra_cmpc> in armel emulation indeed
<Laibsch> lool: http://paste.debian.net/62953/  qemu-bootstrap fails
<lool> ogra_cmpc: Sorry, I'm not sure
<lool> Laibsch: That's interesting; could you run that command?
<lool> Laibsch: chroot lucid-armel-chroot dpkg --force-depends --install /var/cache/apt/archives/base-files_5.0.0ubuntu10_armel.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/base-passwd_3.5.22_armel.deb
<lool> or s#dpkg#/usr/bin/dpkg#
<Laibsch> lool: http://paste.debian.net/62992/  dependency problem?
<Laibsch> there is no awk package in /var/cache/apt/archives/
<Laibsch> same for gawk
<lool> Laibsch: Could you run chroot lucid-armel-chroot /debootstrap/debootstrap --debug --second-stage ?
<lool> Laibsch: mawk should have been unpacked by debootstrap
<lool> (not by dpkg though)
<lool> oh that's just a warning
<lool> Laibsch: Your problem is dpkg: ../../src/archives.c:754: tarobject: Assertion `r == stab.st_size' failed.
<lool> Laibsch: That's the same bug I reported
<lool> Laibsch: Just create the chroot outside of home directory
<lool> Laibsch: It's an ecryptfs bug exposed by recent changes to dpkg
<Laibsch> I see
<lool> bug #524919
<ubot4`> Launchpad bug 524919 in linux (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 4 other projects) "ecryptfs breaks lstat/readlink size assumption (affects: 1)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524919
<Laibsch> I'm restarting in /usr/src
<Laibsch> that was successful
<Laibsch> great!
#ubuntu-arm 2011-02-28
<Kurlon> Any chance I could boot an ubuntu arm userland with an Android kernel?
<Kurlon> Or are they too butchered?
<rsalveti> Kurlon: you can, not that will work 100% fine, but most of the times you can enable later what's missing
<rsalveti> I think the ac100 kernel is still the android one
<rsalveti> and people are using it mostly with ubuntu
<lilstevie> the one I use with the tab is still an android butchered kern
<lilstevie> but too much is broke
<lilstevie> and I have to start rolling back some of the android patches
<lilstevie> which is proving rather troublesome
<rsalveti> it all depends on the quality of the changes
<rsalveti> if it's not breaking stuff at least, you can still use a config compatible with ubuntu
<rsalveti> with the needed modules and stuff
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> no images :(
<ogra> bug 721118
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 721118 in unity "Unity FTBFS on armel due to Nux" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/721118
<XorA_> morning
<ericb2> hello
<ericb2> I'm using the natty version on BeagleBoard xM and it's slow
<ericb2> is the proc frequency 600 MHz only ?
<ericb2> second, looks like there is no 3D acceleration. Is there something possible, or ..
<ericb2> thanks in advance :)
<ogra> i think there is some cmdline option you can set to make it operate on full speed
<ericb2> ogra: I believed cpufreq-selector could help, but the frequency management is not handled (if I searched correctly)
<ogra> and the sgx drivers should be in multiverse somewhere
<ericb2> ogra: ah, thanks. was the name missing me
<ericb2> sgx
<XorA_> I think you do mpurate=<number> to get itr faster
<ericb2> XorA_: at boot time ?
<XorA_> ericb2: yes
<ericb2> XorA_: ok. and what number are possibles ?
<ericb2> numbers
<ogra> i think it takes MHz values
<ogra> so 1000 should get you a GHz
<ericb2> ok, I'll try 800 then
<XorA_> 800 certainly safe if thats the right arg, Im working from memory
 * XorA_ only got an XM yesterday
 * ogra imagines 1000 should work too, buut 800 is surely safer
<ericb2> ok. anyway, we'll see
<ericb2> is there a key to hit at boot ?
<XorA_> I think koen was running XM happilly at 1.2Ghz
<ogra> no, you edit /boot/boot.script and run sudo flash-kernel
<ogra> on the running system
<ogra> that will change your boot args
<ericb2> ogra: thanks
 * XorA_ shall Natty his XM tonight
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i think we shopuld probably set mpurate at image buildtime
<janimo> ogra, ping
<ogra> the prob is that these images also run on B and C series beagles and we cant really determine if we are on a XM
<ogra> janimo, yo
<XorA_> the cpufreq patches should be mainstream now, and they know what type of omap you have
<ogra> janimo, in bug 724615 there is a "fix committed" set, could you please link the branch in the future ? (desktop team asked)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 724615 in unity "unity FTBFS on armel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/724615
<XorA_> but last I saw there were some bugs in cpufreq framework preventing going to full speed as it assume unique voltages for each frequency
<ogra> that way its easier to find what the patch was :)
<ericb2> XorA_ I got an xM rev 1 if I'm not wrong
<XorA_> dont know which rev I got
<ogra> no sticker ?
<XorA_> ogra: its at home, my eyesight not that good
<ogra> train it !
<XorA_> someone sold it to me cheap over the weekend
 * XorA_ never persuaded TI to part with any :-D
<ericb2> shit I tried to install libgl1-sgx-omap3 libgles2-sgx-omap3 and  it fails.
<ericb2> the reason is  : FATAL:  module omaplfb not found
<ogra> you need the powervr package first i think
<ogra> powervr-omap3-dkms
 * ericb2 tries
<ericb2> it is already installed
<ericb2> Building ...
<ogra> is it done compiling already ?
<ogra> aha
<ericb2> Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 2.6.38-1-omap (armel)
<ericb2> I'll consult the make.log
<ogra> is that your own kernel ?
<ericb2> ogra: no it isn't
<ericb2> error : unknown fiels 'ioctl' specified in initializer
<ogra> hmm, strange
<ericb2> s/fiels/field/
<ogra> there might be a ppa where rsalveti provides an update package, wait until he is around
<ericb2> in build/services4/3rdparty/bufferclass_ti/bc_cat.c
<ogra> though i'm not sure he rolled a new one for omap3 ... i know there is one for omap4 somewhere
<janimo> ogra, there was no branch I committed to trunk
<janimo> there's a ton of ubnity email since I am on the team, so I would not be surprised commit messages to be overlooked
<ogra> janimo, then make a branch first and link it or attach a patch or some such
<ogra> its just very hard to find out about the fix if nothing is linked
<ogra> you can even just copy the link to the revision into a comment
<janimo> ok, I was hoping that bzr commit would do something as I inlucde dLP :#XXX in the commit msg
<ogra> hmm
<janimo> is this on ayatana or u-desktop?
<ogra> i think it should ... i rarely cimmit to upstream branches directly though, i usually link merge branches
<ogra> the discussion was on u-desktop
<ericb2> ogra: is it possible to compile by hand ?
<ogra> look up the dkms docs, i think you can trigger it by hand
<ericb2> ogra: I'm currently in /var/lib/dkms/pwervr-omap3/3.01.00.07/build/services4/3rdparty/bufferclass_ti, but make leads me to undefined $KERNEL_DIR
 * ericb2 looks
<ogra> hmm, really looks like you dont use the official kernel
<ericb2> ogra: no idea : Im running the Ubuntu image I found the link on the Ubuntu wiki
<ericb2> ogra: this is natty, could be related ?
<ogra> linux-image-2.6.38-5-omap
<ogra> thats the version you should have installed
<ericb2> ogra:  uname  -a tells : Linux beagle 2.6.38-1-omap
<ericb2> ogra:  uname  -a tells : Linux beagle 2.6.38-1-omap #28-Ubuntu
<ogra> that sounds outdated
<ericb2> indeed, apt-cache tells me about 2.6.38-5
<ericb2> shit .. no network
<ericb2> is /etc/init.d/networking restart wrong  ?
<ogra> that only restarts low-level bits iirc
<ogra> network manager cares for the higher level bits
<ericb2> ogra: and I need to got X.org running for that ?
<ogra> you can also set it up in /etc/network/interfaces instead
<ogra> then NM will use the config from there without X
<ericb2> I added two lines in /etc/network interfaces :   allow-hotplug usb0  and   iface usb0  inet dhcp
<ericb2> and ifup usb0 fails
<ogra> and auto usb0 ?
<ogra> you shouldnt need allow-hotplug
<ogra> cat /proc/net/dev|grep usb ?
 * ericb2 removed allow-hotplug an retries ...
<ericb2> ogra: got :  usb0: 64009 677 .... and so on
<ogra> looks fine
<ericb2> ok, works now. Suddenly ...
<ogra> its magic :)
<ericb2> ogra: ufff ... loosk like I'm in debug mode ... got  zillions of [ xxxx.xxxxxx]  smsc95xx 1-2.1:1.0: usb0: kevent 2 may have been dropped
 * ericb2 installing kernel 2.6.38-5 
<ericb2> (omap version)
 * ericb2 hopes to be able to work a bit today 
<rsalveti> morning
<ericb2> rsalveti: hi
<ericb2> rsalveti: got a problem installing powervr on omap3
<ericb2> rsalveti: X.org is gone ...
<ericb2> rsalveti: + the build fails
<rsalveti> ericb2: could be that sgx is broken with latest updates
<rsalveti> ericb2: can you open a bug against it?
<rsalveti> will take a look then
<ericb2> rsalveti: where ?
<ericb2> rsalveti: do you have a link I meant
<rsalveti> maybe by updating the package or by fixing the current code
<rsalveti> ericb2: just open a bug agains the sgx package for omap3
<rsalveti> putting your dkms logs
<rsalveti> ericb2: there's a workaround to avoid the smsc95xx messages
<rsalveti> let me get the link
<rsalveti> XorA: ogra: and for omap I'd like to merge the patch that sets the mhz higher for most beagle boards
<rsalveti> also on my todo, was waiting more discussion and see if it'd go for 39
<rsalveti> than I can easily backport for our current 38
<gholl> does anyone know how long i can expect to wait for the image writing to complete? I'm following instructions here for a beagle board install, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
<rsalveti> ericb2: for smsc messages: Add to /etc/sysctl.conf: vm.min_free_kbytes = 8192
<ericb2> rsalveti: ok, I'll do once I'll have installed kernel-sources for 2.6.38-5
<rsalveti> ericb2: thanks
<ericb2> btw, mpurate=800 seems to work well. mpurate=1000 does nothing, and looks like 600 MHz is the fallback
 * ericb2 doing everything on a simple 16GB micro SD card 
<ogra> k
<ericb2> would be fantastic to find 32 or even 64GB a day, using such "size"  :)
<ericb2> 1cm square hard disk is a bit of fun
<XorA_> crap just reminded me I dont have any high speed microSDs
<ericb2> rsalveti: done. ( /etc/sysctl.conf ..etc)
<ericb2> rsalveti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/powervr-omap3/+bug/726541
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 726541 in powervr-omap3 "powervp installation broken on aremel (kernel 2.6.38-5)" [Undecided,New]
<rsalveti> ericb2: cool, thanks
<ericb2> rsalveti: I added one comment
<ericb2> rsalveti: wiating, what can I do to repair my X.org (currently broken)
<ericb2> ?
<ericb2> s/wiating/waiting/
<rsalveti> ericb2: what happened to your x.org?
<ericb2> something like "module omaplfb not found" or something close
<ericb2> rsalveti: happened when I tried to install powervr
<ericb2> and apt-cache search omaplfb    ... is empty :/
<rsalveti> that's because this module is loaded during the sgx initscript
<rsalveti> but it shouldn't affect your xorg
<rsalveti> as the omap 3 driver doesn't properly support the xorg
<ericb2> rsalveti: where is the config file located ? Maybe I can reconfigure X.org ?
<rsalveti> ericb2: there's no xorg conf by default
<ericb2> rsalveti: sorry, how does it work then ?
<rsalveti> ericb2: at /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d are the basic confs, but not something that sets your video driver
<rsalveti> you can still create your own config, but not needed
<rsalveti> as you're basically using xorg with framebuffer
<ericb2> rsalveti: ok, and how can I figure out what happens ? The only info I got is  :  ddxSigGiveUp : Closing log
<ericb2> in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<rsalveti> ericb2: can you post your x.org log for me?
<ericb2> rsalveti: yes, sure. Let me try to launch it manually
<ericb2> (EE} HID 04f3:013: failed to initialize for relative axes.
<ericb2> could the mpurate=800 be the reason ?
<ericb2> and servce gdm restart does notthing ... tested on CTRL + ALT + F6 -> F10
<rsalveti> if xorg is failing, then gdm restart will not work
<ericb2> rsalveti: I know. Was to obtain a track, somewhere to search
<ericb2> rsalveti: the only track I got, is when I installed the libegl1-sgx-omap3 lib, a lot of libs have been uninstalled
<ericb2> rsalveti: bingo
<ericb2> rsalveti: broken dependencies
<rsalveti> it's normal to remove some mesa libraries and dependencies, as the sgx one will replace them
<rsalveti> but it could be that something was remove accidentally
<rsalveti> *removed
<rsalveti> I'm setting up my beagleboard to test the package again
<rsalveti> and try to fix it
<ericb2> rsalveti: you mean everyting removed +  omaplfb module should replace everything ?
 * ericb2 will redo .. not clear 
<rsalveti> no, the sgx packages should replace the libegl/libgles from mesa
<rsalveti> and when the mesa packages are removed, some others are also removed, as not used anymore
<ericb2> rsalveti: ok, but sgx package won't work without the module ?
<rsalveti> ericb2: nops
<ericb2> rsalveti: ah .. sorry looks I'm plain wrong
<rsalveti> but your xorg should still work
<ericb2> rsalveti: it's not the case
<lag> rsalveti: Did you manage to give that rootfs a stab?
<rsalveti> lag: argh, sorry, it took so long to download that I completely forgot
<rsalveti> let me dig it here
<lag> :)
<lag> np
<rsalveti> lag: did you try this rootfs with kernel upstream?
<rsalveti> or how are you planning to use it?
<lag> rsalveti: I have various kernels I can try to use it with
<lag> rsalveti: The main one is on git.linaro.org
<rsalveti> lag: so what exactly you want me to test with it?
<lag> rsalveti: I'm guessing you don't have HW though
<lag> Anything?
<rsalveti> just to try it with beagle?
<rsalveti> ok
<lag> rsalveti: I think it's just a generic kernel
<lag> Sure
<XorA_> hey prpplague
<prpplague> XorA_: hey bud
<XorA_> prpplague: what happens if I plug a zippy into beagle XM?
<prpplague> XorA: it goes *poof*
 * prpplague jokes with XorA 
<XorA_> :-(
<prpplague> XorA: zippy and zippy2 have been tested with xm with no issues
<XorA_> prpplague: sweet, even bigger rootfs with LVM then :-D
<rsalveti> lag: image is working fine
<rsalveti> lag: with our 38 for omap
<rsalveti> linaro image but still "Welcome to Ubuntu Natty" :-)
<lag> rsalveti: It's the Linaro image of Ubuntu
<ogra> heh
<ogra> "the linaro image of ubuntu"
<ogra> sounds like "the duke of earl"
<janimo> rsalveti, do TI plan a .38 upload now that it seems to be close to good enough?
<ogra> TI ... upload ... ?
<ogra> janimo, cooloney does our kernel, whenever he is ready we should get a package
<ogra> given that there are only a few hours until freeze i wouldnt expect it before alpha3 though
<janimo> ogra, ah great. Well, green light for upload, pull request whatever :)
<janimo> it's a soft freeze :)
<armin76> ogra talking bad about TI *g*
<ogra> k, i'll try to ping him tomorrow morning
<janimo> and it does not go into images so should not destabilize A3
<ogra> we wont have parallel kernel packages for omap4
<janimo> ah, so it's a straigh update
<ogra> so it has to be good enough to replace the existing one
<janimo> ok, then
<ogra> right
<ogra> kernel team refused to maintain two packages
<janimo> makes perfect sense
<ogra> specially since we would get naming probs
<ogra> and cross-grading would become a pain
<janimo> ogra, what were the takeaways from the emdebian meeting?
<janimo> anything new to us?
<rsalveti> janimo: ogra: new .38 upload should be done when cooloney work on it
<rsalveti> but, still not tested
<ogra> rsalveti, right
<rsalveti> the pull request is done from TI side already
<ogra> i think janimo just said it was good for him above
<janimo> ok
<ogra> yup, i saw the mail
<ogra> the sound stuff doesnt look convincing though
<ogra> but we have time to fix that this time (i hope)
<rsalveti> yeah
<rsalveti> I believe we'll go a3 with the kernel we have in hands
<rsalveti> this new on a ppa and after a3 we can do the switch
<ogra> yeah
<rsalveti> as the soft freeze for a3 is today
<rsalveti> wasn't expecting that
<ogra> freeze is at 23:00 UTC
<armin76> where is that .38 kernel coming from?
<rsalveti> yeah
<rsalveti> armin76: from TI
<ogra> its always on mondy evening/tuesday morning
<rsalveti> armin76: but basically the same one linaro currently delivers
<rsalveti> ogra: yeah, was expecting it to be tomorrow, but fine :-)
<rsalveti> nothing urgent
<ogra> well, looks like unity didnt make it yet
<armin76> rsalveti: link for it?
<rsalveti> armin76: getting for you
<ogra> so that looks like a delay
<armin76> thanks
<ogra> (for the freeze)
<rsalveti> ogra: what you mean? we may need some bugfixing
<rsalveti> but that's fine if we can do that tomorrow
<ogra> rsalveti, i know ...
<rsalveti> I believe
<ogra> we wont have images tomorrow
<rsalveti> ogra: didn't you say you fixed it?
<ogra> unity will be uploaded tomorrow morning only
<rsalveti> :-)
<janimo> finally KDE packages are out of the FTBFS queue, now the chart looks familiar again
<ogra> no,. janimo fixed it
<janimo> although I wish Libo built on arm for a change
<ogra> but the fix was sitting idle in upstreams bzr for three days
<rsalveti> oh, will still be pushed...
<ogra> it will be pushed
<rsalveti> argh
<ogra> but the desktop team just announced they wont make it before tomorrow morning
<ogra> which means we will have no images tomorrow morning
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra> with luck we'll have them in the evening
<janimo> maybe I should have made a package upload as well. Dunno, I was trying not to mess with too many bzr branches at once
<rsalveti> yeah
<rsalveti> I thought you also did a package upload
<janimo> no
<ogra> janimo, given treh experience we now have with nux and unity slowness, i would actually recommed package fixes in the future
<janimo> I saw they upload quite frequently
<janimo> so I leave it to them
<rsalveti> it's taking too much time for the fixes to be in the archive
<ogra> nux took ages
<rsalveti> yeah
<ogra> because they kept back a new upstream relese until FF
<janimo> true, but I did not know how long it takes them. I will consider package uploads from now on though
<rsalveti> seems they don't care much about arm
<ogra> given the silly casting errors that cause our build failures i would agree with that :)
<rsalveti> if it's breaking our images, then a package upload would be better I guess
<janimo> rsalveti, I can't blame them. The flood of bugmails I am getting since on the unity team has * a lot* of crash reports
<janimo> they ned to make that stabl eon x86 before caring for arm
<rsalveti> crash or ftbfs?
<janimo> crashes
<rsalveti> crash is fine :P
<ogra> yeah
<janimo> I still canoot run unity on my two x86 laptops I test on
<rsalveti> ftbfs blocks images
<janimo> just goes away
<ogra> ftbfs is blocking
<janimo> ogra, rsalveti I know, what I am saying they are swamped by bugfix work so probably let us handle arm and only do it when explicitly pinged
<ogra> i'm really curious if unity-2d will run at all
<ogra> janimo, right, do package fixes and additionally dup a merge request in place for next upstream
<rsalveti> armin76: https://github.com/sebjan/linux-2.6/tree/int-2.6.38-rc6-iv3
<ogra> *dump
<rsalveti> yeah
<rsalveti> otherwise we're not making a3
 * armin76 wonders why is it hidden
<armin76> rsalveti: thanks
<rsalveti> armin76: it's not hidden, heavy dev
<rsalveti> armin76: if you follow linaro tree you'll probably get the same patch set
<Neko> arm guys!
<Neko> I have a quandry
<Neko> I want to install from ubuntu-standard a full gnome desktop
<Neko> but ubuntu-desktop requires unity
<Neko> and jockey-gtk
<sebjan> rsalveti: actually, if you talk about my tag, it does not contain the Linaro patches, only TI ones on top of mainline kernel
<Neko> but unity depends on compiz
<Neko> and jockey-gtk depends on nvidia-common
<Neko> *what* is going on?
<Neko> (btw unity-2d doesn't provides: unity either)
<rsalveti> sebjan: true, I mean, if he gets the andy linaro tree he'll get everything
<sebjan> rsalveti: correct
<rsalveti> as he's also merging your tree
<ogra>  Neko unity is the default ubuntu-desktop in natty
<rsalveti> Neko: we're fixing this
<ogra> Neko, and unity-2d doesnt provide unity since it uses bits and pieces of unity
<ogra> -2d needs unity installed
<GrueMaster> Neko.  Packages are being rebuilt frm massive uploads last week.  Expect a little turbulence in the pool, it should settle by the end of the week.
<Neko> right and I tried that but unity depends on compiz-abisomething
<ogra> jockey is fixed since half a day
<Neko> ah okay so I am just in the middle of an update?
<Neko> phew..
<rsalveti> yeah
<GrueMaster> Yes.
<ogra> the rest will be fixed tomorrow or so
<Neko> okay I am satisfied then
<rsalveti> Neko: we still don't have images
<rsalveti> since feb 16th
<ogra> depending how fast the desktop team works
<rsalveti> we expect this to be fixed this week
<Neko> will there be a way to install a maverick-ish gnome desktop without unity?
<ogra> we're waiting too
<ogra> not when using ubuntu-desktop
<Neko> but there's no new meta package to be back to the old behavior?
<janimo> ogra, I am not sure u-2d need unity installed
<Neko> I dunno. I like the IDEA of unity, just not the way it soaks up all the screen space with it's little menu bar
<janimo> what pieces it uses from it?
<ogra> janimo, the dash, icons etc
<janimo> I don't see those in the depends
<ogra> and iirc it build deps on libunity
<janimo> I think there is some common C++ helper indeed
<ogra> which should add it to debs through shlibs
<janimo> but not unity (the apps ) itself
<ogra> the point is that you can install all bits and pieces independently
<ogra> i.e. i used the panel on a normal gnome desktop for a while here ;(
<ogra> err
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> the unity package should probably have more recommends though
<ogra> err
<ogra> unity-2d indeed
<ogra> GrueMaster, if you have some spare cycles today it would be nice to know if unity-2d still runs ... nowing that in advance before we have images would be helpful
<GrueMaster> I'm already downloading the updates now.
 * ogra hugs GrueMaster 
<Neko> I'm kind of impressed with how fast natty is just as a running system... I hacked in gnome and ambience theme and the backdrops and it's like lightning
<Neko> unity seems to run okay it's just I had to spend 2 hours getting it to even install
<Neko> but I understand, we had this problem during Maverick... trying to do work during the day before and the day after an alpha release = eek :D
<GrueMaster> Neko, when booting, you can select classic desktop when logging in.  not sure if there are plans for a meta package.
<Neko> it's no problem
<Neko> it just scared me that I couldn't install ubuntu-desktop because it depends on unity and unity didn't work
<Neko> which means no desktop ata ll
<Neko> at all
<Neko> I'll try it again mid-March and it will hopefully Just Work (tm) :)
<ogra> you should try on thu.
<Neko> release day? I doubt I will have good luck then :D
<ogra> ??
<Neko> we usually have frightening problems with bandwdith to the ubuntu servers
<ogra> this thursday
<Neko> Alpha 3 release date is Thursday
<ogra> yes
<Neko> hundreds of geeks downloading new ISOs, pulling packages for their alpha 2 systems...
<ogra> that shouldnt affext ports.ubuntu.com though
<Neko> in theory :D
<GrueMaster> Neko: I have my own mirror of ports so I don't get hit by bandwidth issues.
<Neko> I use approx so I have a good buffer but it doesn't help when 90% of stuff got rebuilt
<GrueMaster> my mirror updates every 4 hours.  real slow for the first few weeks after UDS, but good overall.
<ericb2> janimo: ping ?
<janimo> ericb2, hello
<ericb2> janimo: hi. Are you Jani Monoses ?
<janimo> ericb2, yes
<ericb2> janimo: maybe you'll be interested : I implemente the interlock part in arm assembler for armv7 +  in OOo4Kids
<janimo> ericb2, regarding the recent bug I filed?
<ericb2> janimo: in sal/osl/unx/interlck.c
<ericb2> janimo: I'm not aware
<janimo> I was under the impression we need to move away from asm
<janimo> I sent a patch to libo to use gcc atomic builtins for that
<ericb2> janimo: it woarks really wel on OOo4Kids
<janimo> I think gcc does a good job for atomic ops nowadays
<janimo> and imo the less ifdefs and assembly code the better :)
<ericb2> janimo: looks like I did the same
<janimo> ericb2, is that of fork of OO?
<ericb2> janimo:  http://eric.bachard.free.fr/patches/OOo4Kids/linux_arm/arm_DEV300_m93.diff
<ericb2> janimo: yes, OOo4Kids (and OOoLight ) is a fork of OOo
<ericb2> janimo: only the atomic part might interest you
<janimo> ah I see, so you created the original arm optimization patch for OO?
<janimo> that is currently in natty
<ericb2> janimo: I wrote this patch, but I don't know what other people dd with it :)
<ericb2> janimo: on my BeagleBoard, the change is really visible
<ericb2> janimo: and faster
<ericb2> janimo: so far, no crash yet, but maybe the patch needs to be tested intensively
<janimo> ericb2, it is a coincidence then, as I only filed a bug related to this against ubuntu libo today
<janimo> I bet it is faster, the alternative used pthread mutexes
<ericb2> janimo: yes. Some people like rene cry because I don't care armv6 or prior
<janimo> still I think you'd get the same improvement and much cleaner code - no configure foo and no inline asm, using only the bits you used for arm <7 in your code
<ericb2> janimo: what is the problem
<ericb2> janimo: I tested both, and the inline asm is faster
<janimo> ericb2, well you care for that too, by letting gcc do the right thing there
<ericb2> janimo: since I added other fixes
<janimo> I did not perf test but looking at the code generated by gcc I see the same sequence of instructions so I was hopiong the performance is more or less the same
<ericb2> janimo: and the build is fine on Debian, on Ubuntu and on OE distributions (e.g. the one sakoman provides)
<janimo> one fix needed is meory barriers
<janimo> on beagle there is no need
<janimo> but on SMP systems like the panda not using dmb can lead to bugs I guess
<janimo> ericb2, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/726529
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 726529 in libreoffice "use arm assembly bits only for gcc < 4.6 on ARM > 6" [Undecided,In progress]
<ericb2> janimo: you're probably right. I filed the code thinking people could be interested, and nobody can imagine all cases
<ericb2> janimo: so any improvement is good to hear
<janimo> ericb2, I think they were interested as long as your patch is part of the current LibO and former OO builds in Ubuntu
 * ericb2 discovering the patch is part of current Libo 
<janimo> LibO in Ubuntu
<janimo> it is a patch Ubuntu carries
<ericb2> janimo: I know
<janimo> but it was commited to LibO as well today
<janimo> as it makes sense for older gcc build
<ericb2> janimo: I was not aware. I don't follow Libo
<ericb2> janimo: when Libo was decided, I was even not invited. Now, they can die
<janimo> it was mentioned in the bugs filed.
<ericb2> janimo: no problem
<janimo> ericb2, I am not sure it was invitation based. I do not know the details
<janimo> I am sure they have a better future than OO, it is a shame you parted ways
<ericb2> janimo: well, I think I contribute since a long while to OOo, and not inform me was a choice. No problem for me anyway
<janimo> they are responsive, I doubt you'll get your ARM patches in OO
<janimo> ericb2, I am not sure every contributor was made aware of the fork before the announcement
<janimo> if so it must have been an oversight in your case
<ericb2> janimo: it was thought : use it if you consider it usefull. If not well that's no problem
<ericb2> janimo: no, I was very close to people organising everything, and not inform me was a choice
<janimo> I only got involved (slightly) since the fork and they come across as the most friendly project I have seen in a while
<janimo> ericb2, sorry to hear that. HAve you asked them afterwads, did they clarify anything?
<janimo> ericb2, is this ARM patch originally authored by you?
<ericb2> janimo: I wrote it, yes
<ericb2> janimo: but I didn't follow the story
<ericb2> janimo: precisely, I wrote the one I provided you the link http://eric.bachard.free.fr/patches/OOo4Kids/linux_arm/arm_DEV300_m93.diff
<janimo> hmm, sadly there is no attribution on the patch in Ubuntu
<janimo> the one in ubuntu looks very similar
<ericb2> janimo: as you can see, I backported it to OOo, making it more simpler for other forks,  people
<ericb2> janimo: who commited it ?
<ericb2> janimo: http://cia.vc/stats/project/OOo4Kids
<ericb2> janimo: revision r1152
<janimo> today it was Bjoern, the UBuntu Libo maintainer. It was part of the ubuntu tree for a long time so he probably did not know whom to attribute
<ericb2> janimo: svn diff -cr1152 svn://svn.adullact.net/svnroot/ooo4kids1/trunk
<janimo> what other changes does OO4kids have in general?
<ericb2> janimo: no Java, OOo - 40%
<ericb2> janimo: no Basic, just Python works
<janimo> this 1152 commit is a few weeks old, is the patch older?
<ericb2> janimo: and new UI, working with students
<ericb2> janimo: the commit is the first time I published my code. After, I backported to DEV300_m93, and I uploaded the patch I shown you
<ericb2> janimo: other patch, is attached to OOo issue zilla
<ericb2> janimo: let me retrieve the link
<janimo> ericb2, ok, for some reason I was under the impression the patch in Ubuntu is older, but I do not follow Ubuntu OO, it was just a coincidence I spotted this yesteday
<ericb2> janimo: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=117017
<ubot2> ericb2: Error: Could not parse XML returned by OpenOffice.org: timed out (http://openoffice.org/issues/xml.cgi?id=117017)
<ericb2> janimo: I really wrote it
<ericb2> janimo: I learned everything, and spent several nights to that
<ericb2> janimo: and I ignored there was one similar patch on Ubuntu repo
<ericb2> janimo: do you have the link ?
 * ericb2 curious
<janimo> checking
<janimo> this went into LibO today http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/ure/commit/?id=83f2c071758ae7d74669d992e272e50057b895ed
<janimo> I am not sure there's a plain Ubuntu patch except in a tgz somewhere
<ericb2> janimo: the patch I attached to IZ and I commited is dated 19 february. I'm pretty sure I completed it one day before. This leads to 18 february. Here is the story I know
<ericb2> janimo: what happens with gcc >= 4.6 ?
<janimo> ericb2, it generated good enough code that it does not need to be manually written
<janimo> I mean for the _sync_XXX stuff
<ericb2> janimo: __sync_add_and_fecth, ___sync_sub_and_fetch and al ?
<janimo> yes
<ericb2> janimo: I see
<janimo> that was part of your patch as well right?
<ericb2> janimo: yes. Ben ( a guy building on qemu + Debian arm ), had an issue with that. Was my fault
<ericb2> janimo: and I discoverd the stuff
<ericb2> janimo: more precisely, he had an undefined  __sync_add_and_fetch_4  or something
<ericb2> janimo: and after some grep's I discovered the thing, and had the idea to learn arm asm :)
<ericb2> janimo: some years ago, I worked on m68k asm , and a bit on x86 asm too
<ericb2> so was not much surprised
<ericb2> janimo:  as I mentionned in the log, Simon Guinot, helped me (he explained me the change after armv5
<ericb2> )
<ericb2> janimo: e.g. swap  vs  ldrex strex
<janimo> right
<ericb2> janimo: I'm about to propose a subject for GSoC, about performance issues on arm
<janimo> ericb2, hmm so that arm patch went into debian via Rene?I see it in the debian pkg changelog
<ericb2> janimo: OOo4Kids is an elephant, and we can improve a lot
<ericb2> janimo: probably
<janimo> ericb2, I know OO is an elephant but I think much better gains could be had by doing higher level optimizations
<ericb2> janimo: rene was crying a lot after me
<janimo> before going low level
<ericb2> janimo: he didn't read correctly the issue and he was red :)
<janimo> like doing much less disk IO
<ericb2> janimo: yes
<janimo> and pruning code and duplication and 20 year iolkd cruft
<ericb2> janimo: and remove lot of useless stuff
<ericb2> janimo: and more if affinity ^^
<janimo> at this point I think the code needs cleanup much more that asm level magic that only a ahdnful of devs understand well
<ericb2> just time is missing me : I got a real life, a real job, a family, doing a lot of sport :)
<ericb2> janimo: I'm in OOo code since 2004, and I worked a lot on the native Mac OS X port
<ericb2> janimo: including the MAc Intel one (we had to dive into the bridge too)
<doko_> ericb2: this is what Sweetshark did commit. http://libreoffice.pastebin.com/etTyZc5R   GCC-4.6 inlines the _sync_* primitives
<ericb2> doko_: probably
<ericb2> doko_: as I told, I didnt follow what happened since I donated the patch
<ericb2> doko_: that's true I'd have appreciated to see my name mentionned somewhere though ...
<doko_> ericb2: I didn't see any name within the patch, nor do I know where it was submitted ...
<ericb2> doko_: it was originaly submitted to OOo IZ, to simplify the backports for all forks and so on.
<ericb2> doko_: imagine it was submitted to LO, it would never have been reversed to OOo. So to respect everybody, the most simple was to attach it to OOo IZ
<doko_> ericb2: please tell Sweetshark on #ubuntu-desktop
<desrt> ogra: word up
<ogra> hohoho
<desrt> do you have any idea if we'll be getting alternate toolchains for arm?
<desrt> particularly: non-eabi and softfloat variants?
<ogra> alternate ? like LLVM ?
<ogra> ah
<desrt> not really important for the compiler and binutils as much as for the libgcc...
<ogra> not in natty
<desrt> this stuff is important for building u-boot :)
<ogra> we will get a hardfloat port in natty+1 which will run in parallel with the current one
<ogra> what for are you building u-boot ?
<desrt> the kobo
<desrt> i love this device
<desrt> it's cheap and hell and quite awesome
<ericb2> ogra: is hard float reliable ?
<ogra> nice
<desrt> it has a somewhat hacked up firmware installed
<ogra> ericb2, according to markos_ who does the port in debian currently, it is, yeah
<desrt> they released the code as a bunch of tarballs against old linux/redboot releases
<desrt> and the patches are quite awful
<ogra> what architecture is that ?
<desrt> i've managed to get u-boot going on it and also have some patches against the kernel to make that work
<ericb2> ogra: starting which proc ?
<ericb2> ogra: for omap3 one told me it was not really. But maybe more recent is safe
<ogra> angstrom is fully built in hardfloat mode afaik
<ogra> since quite a while
<ericb2> ogra: interesting
<markos_> ericb2, it depends on what you mean by reliable, usually packages just work, but there are a few who need special attention :)
<markos_> these are just a few though
<markos_> debian has reached 87% and we're hoping we can reach 95% soon
<ericb2> markos_: what can bring hardfloat exactly ?
<markos_> er, a hardfloat abi?
<ericb2> markos_: yes, I know, but in the real life:  is it that faster ?
 * desrt thought that the change to eabi brought hardfloat with it
<ericb2> markos_: just a question, because I didn't test yet
<markos_> it depends on what apps you depend on
<markos_> most apps benefit 5-30% depending on their use of fp
<markos_> some don't benefit at all, while apps heavy on fp might be 200% faster (like a raytracer, like pov, yes it was actually 200% faster)
<ericb2> markos_: the one I have in mind is OOo4Kids (an OOo fork)
<ericb2> markos_: I'm working on performances issues, and am interested by everything who cold help in this domain
<markos_> no idea how much better -if at all- OOo would be, though from my experience, anything that renders fonts is faster, ~20-25%
<markos_> but ymmv with OOo
<ericb2> markos_: so it is interesting
<markos_> yes it is, that's what I've been trying to tell people all along :)
<ericb2> markos_: do yo have a link, where I could read the flags being used, the cases .. and so on ?
<ogra> you need the whole distro being built for hardfloat
<ogra> the binaries wont run on a softfloat distro
<markos_> ericb2, working on getting armhf d-i these days
<ericb2> ogra: isn't there a flag allowing both ?
<ericb2> markos_: great :)
<markos_> ogra, well he coud use a chroot
<ogra> they are binary incompatible
<ogra> yeah. you could use a chroot
<ogra> or a vm
<ericb2> markos_: I'm not a specialist (arm is a jungle), but extremely curious and interested
<ogra> both would work
<markos_> ericb2, give me a few weeks, I've commited some armhf stuff to d-i, but there remain a few irritating points still to fix
<markos_> anyway gotta go, have to tell a bedtime story :)
<ericb2> markos_: I will. thanks :)
<ogra> ubuntu will have it with the next release
<ericb2> markos_: see you later
<ogra> and slowly migrating 100% to it
<ericb2> ogra: in fact, I'd like to provide an adapted version of OOo4Kids (or OOoLight)  for Ubuntu users
<ogra> so watch this place ;)
<ericb2> ogra: so I'll add what is mandatory, and stick your needs
<ogra> if you could get it running with debian hf, you will also get it running in trhe upcoming ubuntu port
<ericb2> ogra: currently, I got OOo4Kids building and working on natty
<ericb2> ogra:  but I used soft fp
<ogra> right, thats fine for natty
<ericb2> ogra: ok
<ogra> n+1 will have both
<ogra> soft and hard
<ericb2> ogra: the only thing I'll need is a new micro SD card: and I'll install any experimental version on it
<Sweetshark> ericb2: ping?
#ubuntu-arm 2011-03-01
<XorA> morning
<noah1989> hi
<noah1989> i want to run ubuntu on the beagleboard xM
<noah1989> i#d prefer a prebuilt sd-card image
<noah1989> is there anything recent that i can use?
<XorA> there is natty alpha-2 images
<janimo> noah1989, Ubuntu 10.10 release or a few weeks old Natty image
<noah1989> i found the 10.10 at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/releases/maverick/release/
<noah1989> where do i find the natty images?
<janimo> the omap one
<janimo> cdimage.ubuntu.con/ubuntu-netbook I think
<noah1989> ah. found it, thanks
<noah1989> is there a way to modify it so that it uses the s-video output by default?
<janimo> I don't know
<noah1989> i'm gonna buy a dvi-d cabe just in case...
<noah1989> ah.. found it: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#S-Video
<noah1989> also i need a simple window manager
<noah1989> preferably with all-fullscreen windows and simple switching
<noah1989> side by side doesnt make sense at 640x480
<noah1989> well maybe two xterms may be useful. i'll stick with awesome
<doko> ogra: ping
<ogra> doko, yo
<ericb2> hello
<doko> ogra: I don't have a working babbage board anymore. could you have a look at bug #605042 (and test it)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 605042 in linux-fsl-imx51 "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<ericb2> just wondering. Is it possible, with natty, to remove the ... how to say ... new panel ?
<ericb2> I'd like to have the background alone, and make the panel appear when I want. Said differently : not always visible
<ogra> doko, hmm, my babbage didnt boot anymore last time i tried (though i didnt inspect it and might have done something wrong)
<ogra> doko, can that wait until after A3 ?
<ericb2> something like a shortcut, e.g. toggle visible /hidden would be great
<doko> ogra: yes, I'll assign it to you for testing
<ogra> k
<ogra> doko, note that i only have a 2.5 board, thats not what is in the datacenter
<ogra> linaro has the 3.0 ones if anyone does
<doko> didn't we have 2.5 in the data center?
<ogra> no
<ogra> 3.0
<ogra> there are only minro differences iirc but they are not the same
<janimo> doko, what is the issue with openjdk-6 on ARM? Not supported well by upstream yet?
<janimo> ogra, qt 4.7.2 released :)
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: new kernel for you to test, for omap 4: http://people.canonical.com/~roc/kernel/natty-ti-omap4-dev/ and http://people.canonical.com/~roc/kernel/natty-ti-omap4-dev-linaro/
<rsalveti> the first one is based on our tree + ti, the other also includes the linaro changes for 38
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: use the DVI as your default output: console=ttyO2,115200,n8 vram=32M mem=456M@0x80000000 mem=256M@0xA0000000root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait omapfb.mode=dvi:1280x1024MR-32@60omapdss.def_disp=dvi
<ogra> janimo, yes, Riddell announced it this morning in -devel
<ogra> rsalveti, any idea how we handle upgrades ? (wrt cmdline)
<rsalveti> ogra: don't think we're handling this now, the image still uses the boot.scr available from the installer
<ogra> right
<ogra> i'm wondering how to handle it properly
<rsalveti> before using this as default we should for sure make a way to change the default boot args
<rsalveti> the final idea is to have the hdmi driver, so it's more a temporary solution
<rsalveti> but it'd be good to be prepared in case we have similar changes
<ogra> i mean, we cant really handle it ... the user needs to plug the monitorf into the other socket
<rsalveti> like once we fix the 1gb bug
<rsalveti> ogra: yeah, at least this
<ogra> oh, there are plans for making hdmi work before release ?
<rsalveti> before final release, yes
 * ogra understood that wont make natty
<ogra> ah, good then
<ogra> but we will still need to mangle boot.scr
<rsalveti> at least this was the plan, and they are heavily working on the hdmi driver atm
<ogra> k
<rsalveti> yup
<ogra> do you think we could convince them to add a sane default for the resolution so we dont need to touch the bootargs ?
<rsalveti> you mean, for dvi?
<ogra> no, for hdmi
<ogra> or is hdmi supposed to do edid detection again ?
<rsalveti> for hdmi it'll probe the edid
<rsalveti> and get the best resolution available
<ogra> ah, sweet
<rsalveti> yes, that's why I'm also waiting some more for the edid work for omap 3
<rsalveti> because it'll basically be the same code
<rsalveti> same solution
<ogra> yup, saw that
<rsalveti> but we still document a way to update the boot args, when needed
<rsalveti> maybe post inst, not sure
<rsalveti> once we fix the 1g bug we'd like to change that for all the boards, when the kernel is updated
<rsalveti> for example
<ogra> i'd like to have some automation
<ogra> maybe through u-m
<fairuz> the function flush_cache_all() flushes all cache or only L1 cache? it's from asm/cacheflush.h
<rsalveti> ogra: could be
<rsalveti> was thinking more like we have for grub
<ogra> the legacy vs grub2 update script ?
<rsalveti> with default args and etc, and once a tool is called the boot args would be updated
<ogra> thats not automated
<rsalveti> and then write the boot.scr file
<ogra> its tricky to handle it if your monitor goes black
<ogra> so i would rather like to force it in an automated way
<ogra> to make sure the user still sees something
<ogra> i'm less concerned about the 1G bit here
<rsalveti> it's just an example
<ogra> but about users using milestones that have the DVI stuff and if the HDMI patch does *not* make it also for maverick->natty upgrades
<rsalveti> ogra: we should have at least edid detection, even if it's just dvi
<ogra> in initrd ?
<rsalveti> ogra: so then the problem would be the natty milestones, before this feature is in
<rsalveti> no, in kernel
<ogra> or as a kernel fix
<ogra> ah
<ogra> well, if its only milestones we can probably get away with documentation
<rsalveti> ok, that works, then I believe we're fine
<davidm> ogra, call time?
<ogra> davidm, sure (why do you ping here)
<markos_> ogra, you mentioned a free/open libz160 while in Cambridge, tried to find it but I didn't really end up with something, got a url somewhere?
<markos_> the one I have from FSL is definitely not open :)
<XorA> arm ppas work without special flags these days?
<doko> janimo gone?
<ogra> markos_, asac had it iirc
<asac> ogra: its not free/open because of a stupid license header missing
<asac> ogra: current state is in the canonical-arm ppa iirc
<asac> ogra: i followed up one more time last cycle and never got a reply from Paul whether this is now resolved
<asac> i can check with our fsl LT
<markos_> asac, if it's the same one I have, it's *definitely* not open
<ogra> the one we had was definitely open, just missing the license
<markos_> afaik, fsl built only one libz160
<ogra> and we had been promised severeal times that would be fixed
<markos_> could you point me to a url?
<ogra> i dont know where asac put it, i have ssen it first in a BSP which i cant make public
<markos_> fsl bsp?
<ogra> yep
<markos_> it's probably the same, hate to let you know, this one is not open
<ogra> hmm, they told us differently
<markos_> probably some misunderstanding
<ogra> it had only 2d accel, EXA support and XV iirc
<ogra> no other acceleration
<ogra> and back when i touched it it was very crashy
<markos_> Neko could comment more on that
<markos_> afaik it's closed, I'd love to have it open, but I got a very firm *not open*
<markos_> but yes, it's probably the same one
<markos_> in fact the one I have here has a zero-sized file "DO_NOT_DISTRIBUTE"
<markos_> looks closed to me :)
<markos_> the headers are bsd-like licensed though :)
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i dont think my version had that
<asac> ogra: its in canonical-arm-dev private iirc or fsl private ... we circled that back tot hem asking to add a COPYING
<markos_> some other files in there have a very very firm "AMD_CONFIDENTIAL, DO NOT DISTRIBUTE"
<markos_> I'm pretty sure it's not open
<ogra> the adm bit is definately not open
<ogra> i was talking about the other one
<markos_> what other one, there is only one library libz160
<ogra> iirc it was called something with 140
<GrueMaster> doko: What do you need testing on babbage 3?  I have one still that I keep for SRU testing.
<DevilCode> Hey All
<DevilCode> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall   <-- this the best place to find out how to put ubuntu on beagle board
<doko> GrueMaster:  bug #605042
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 605042 in linux-fsl-imx51 "[armel] java fails to start with eglibc-2.12-0ubuntu4" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605042
<doko> install the kernel from the bug report, the old eglibc packages (on a maverick chroot). with the old kernel, java -version segfaults, with the new kernel it should not
<GrueMaster> I'll have a look.  Might not get to it until after A3, but I'll add it to the priority list.
<GrueMaster> Might take a while just to read through the bug log.  :P
<DevilCode> any one got a little to give me some noob guidance
<GrueMaster> DevilCode: What more info do you need?
<DevilCode> well on the link:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
<DevilCode> a little stuck on booting the image
<GrueMaster> What system do you have?
<DevilCode> with xM rev B
<DevilCode> my SD card is just one partition /dev/sdd1
<GrueMaster> Ok, Follow the instructions for BeagleBoard XM rev A3 and B.
<DevilCode> whats the second partition though
<GrueMaster> You need to flash the image to the sd card, not the partition.
<DevilCode> gaaw]
<GrueMaster> The image has two partitions.
<DevilCode> sudo dd bs=4M if=ubuntu-netbook-10.10-preinstalled-netbook-armel+<omap image>.img of=/dev/sdd  <--- instead of sdd1
<GrueMaster> yes
<DevilCode> *blush*
<DevilCode> ok
<ogra> <omap image> is a placeholder
<ogra> use the right name ;)
<DevilCode> lol
<DevilCode> *dances that i got that right*
<DevilCode> On OMAP4 Blaze Mount the first SD card partition at your host PC and copy the following files to it:
<DevilCode> how do i know
<ogra> do you own a blaze ?
<DevilCode> is that a rev V
<DevilCode> rev B
<ogra> (did you pay $2500 for your devboard)
<DevilCode> lol no
<ogra> right and it doesnt have a case that looks like an elephant mobile phone either i guess :)
<DevilCode> just a cardboard box *sniffle*
<ogra> right, so you dont have a blaze
<ogra> and you said above you have a beagle
<ogra> which is omap3
<ogra> so ignore all omap4 stuff :)
<DevilCode> crap
<DevilCode> i went for the 4 lol
<DevilCode> *start again*
<XorA> heh, I think Linaro have most of the worlds blazes :-)
<ogra> how many do they have ?
<ogra> we have two in the team
<XorA> ogra: I dont think TI made very many at all, or 4430sdp
<XorA> ogra: I know just getting omap4 hardware for my work was difficult
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> was difficult for everyone
<XorA> ogra: yeah but I was contracted by TI to work on it :-)
<XorA> not even enough for their own employees let alone anyone else
<ogra> yup, same prob we had
 * XorA is still waiting for his panda :-)
<DevilCode> they are slow creatures :P
<DevilCode> and slow cars
<DevilCode> generally slow
<GrueMaster> Yea, but the boards are fast.
<DevilCode> and the animal is tasty
<DevilCode> :P
<DevilCode> http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/this-shirt-is-100-organic-65-baby-seal-25-panda-10-manatee/
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: I am setting up to test the .38 kernels.  Will I be able to output via DVI?  My panda didn't have the DVI rework from the TI Rally.
<GrueMaster> Nevermind.  It's coming up
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: nice
<GrueMaster> No X, though.
<GrueMaster> Apparently I am not authorized to start it.
<GrueMaster> Might have something to do with the TI drivers being installed.
<rsalveti> could be
<rsalveti> for the drivers to work you also need a kernel module
<rsalveti> that for sure you don't have atm
<rsalveti> so just remove them
<GrueMaster> right.
<ericb2> janimo: pong ?
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: I'm seeing major problems, but they are likely due to my hacked up image.  I'm going to wait until we have a new image to test these kernels with.
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: ok
<rsalveti> we should have new images today
<GrueMaster> I really don't want to start fresh with a two week old kernel and try to update it to current.
<GrueMaster> Yea, sure.  Believe it when I see it.  :P
<rsalveti> hehe
<GrueMaster> New image build fail reports.  Wheee.
<DevilCode> anyone get BeagleBoard running with DirectFB
<rsalveti> DevilCode: try asking #beagle
<DevilCode> kk
<ogra> GrueMaster, i guess that was pitti s manually killed build
<GrueMaster> Ah.
 * GrueMaster just notes yet another failed build attempt
<GrueMaster> Hmm.  Looks like sources.list may not be populated.
<ogra> not at all ?!?
<GrueMaster> Well, that was according to syslog.  checking filesystem.
 * ogra checks jasper ...
<GrueMaster> No, it's ok.  No universe or multiverse though.
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> longstabnding bug i have on my plate
<ogra> bug 650703
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 650703 in ubiquity "oem-config-prepare works, but oem-config fails to start after reboot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650703
<prpplague> ogra: hey, got a minute for me to pester you about an ubuntu desktop oddity ?
<ogra> prpplague, what is it, i'm trying to debug image breakage atm
<prpplague> ogra: not important atm, go back to debugging
<ogra> (for images we will have to release on thu, so i'm a bit under pressure)
<ogra> well, you can still just throw in your question, probably its an easy task
<prpplague> ogra: i've got 10.10 desktop on both a desktop pc and a netbook, on the netbook the task switch allows me to drag a window from one workspace to another, but on my desktop pc install it doesn't, just curious if there was something quirky about that
<prpplague> ogra: not really important, just saw you online and thought i'd ask
<ogra> well, is the netbook using the netbook UI ?
<prpplague> ogra: negative, same for both
<prpplague> ogra: used the same thumbdrive in fact
<ogra> thats indeed weird ... possibly worth a bug report
<rsalveti> prpplague: what are your video card at your desktop?
<rsalveti> could be that on your desktop you're actually running with 2 x servers
<prpplague> rsalveti: hmm that an install option?
<rsalveti> not install, but a runtime option
<rsalveti> for example, with nvidia driver you can select how your x11 will behave
<prpplague> rsalveti: should i be able to grep the running processes for multiple x?
<rsalveti> prpplague: probably, also check your xorg logs
<prpplague> rsalveti: intel chipset, but i only see one x running
<rsalveti> I remember I used to run the nvidia driver this way, having two different displays over each monitor
<rsalveti> and I couldn't move one window to the other
<rsalveti> hm, so could be a bug
<prpplague> rsalveti: i'll dig around some with that
<rsalveti> prpplague: compare both xorg logs
<rsalveti> see if anything pops up
<prpplague> rsalveti: just an annoyance at this stage, since it _works_ with the latest fedora :P
<rsalveti> you should try our alpha 3 image so ;-)
<rsalveti> once it's available hehe
#ubuntu-arm 2011-03-02
 * prpplague jokes with rsalveti 
<prpplague> rsalveti: i've been pretty happy with the install so far
<rsalveti> :P
<ogra> GrueMaster, i really need some sleep, can you attach logs with debug to the bug and after that try to add 'export UBIQUITY_OEM_USER_CONFIG=1' to the oem-config init in a new install ?
<ogra> i wonder if the last bit makes it go through
<GrueMaster> I'm adding debug log details now.  Will try that shortly.
 * prpplague hands ogra some beer and tylenol PM
<ogra> i wonder if we see that issue because we dont use the oem user
<ogra> beer is a good idea
 * ogra will have one before sleep
<ogra> :)
<GrueMaster> The oem user issue would be new considering how long we've gone without it.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but a lot changed
<ogra> and we are the only ones working in that setup
<GrueMaster> I'm not seeing much in the logs that helps (not that I know what to look for).  Beyond the original syslog report, debug-oem-config hasn't added any useful info.  oem-config.log has more info, but nothing that stands out to me.
<prpplague> <th1a> This is a little anti-climactic.
<prpplague> <th1a> My new PandaBoard appears to Just Work with Ubuntu.
<rsalveti> :-)
<prpplague> rsalveti: guess that is a +1 in you guys column
<rsalveti> actually it's quite nice to know people use it and like it
<rsalveti> unfortunately we don't have many pandas around yet
<prpplague> rsalveti: hopefully that will change soon
<prpplague> rsalveti: you looked at the motorola atrix?
<rsalveti> prpplague: yup, is that omap 4?
<prpplague> rsalveti: yea
<rsalveti> prpplague: I thought it would be tegra 2
<rsalveti> cool
<rsalveti> lot of people will try to install ubuntu on it, for sure
<dustin> Aloha
<prpplague> yea they already are using the Lapdock
<prpplague> dustin: greetings
<dustin> Could you point a newb towards troubleshooting does for install Ubuntu on the BeagleBoard?
<dustin> err docs not does
<prpplague> dustin: have you tried the elinux.org wiki pages first?
<rsalveti> dustin: maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
<dustin> I followed the instructions on the elinux wiki
<rsalveti> that will help you with the pre-installed images
<dustin> However when I boot the BeagleBoard just spits gibberish to the terminal.
<dustin> I'll check that rsalveti, thanks!
<prpplague> rsalveti: you are right the atrix is tegra
<prpplague> rsalveti: i got bad info
<rsalveti> oh, would be quite cool if it was omap 4
<dustin> rsalveti: using that install process seemed to work
<dustin> However does it usually take a while to boot?
<dustin> It's been sitting on the line "Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel." for a while.
<dustin> then it reboot itself
<dbc_> ???
<lag> ogra: Are you about?
<fairuz> any special channel I have to join for Perf tool related problems?
<ogra> lag, with half an eye, i need to debug an install crasher
<lag> ogra: I'm trying to get gdm working with my u8500
<lag> X is running, /dev/fb0 works, gdm is running, but I have a black screen?
<lag> ogra: Any hints?
<ogra> are you on the right tty ?
<lag> console=tty0
<ogra> thats not what i asked :)
<lag> How cant you tell which tty /dev/fb0 is on?
<lag> ogra: It's the only answer I have
<lag> ogra: Where is that configured?
<ogra> did you try ctrl+alt+f7 ?
<ogra> in plymouth afaik
<lag> I only have a serial console
<lag> And touchscreen
<ogra> it uses the first free console for X 1-6 are getty, 7 is either X or boot log
<ogra> so you either find your gdm on tty7 or 8
<ogra> and did you check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<lag> ogra: Yes: http://paste.ubuntu.com/574353/plain/
<ogra> looks fine so far
<ogra> how about a usb keyboard
<lag> ogra: No USB host
<ogra> thats bad
<ogra> so do you see the splash during boot ?
<ogra> gdm should take over from plymouth at some point
<lag> ogra: No slash, just black
<XorA> lag: I see the same on my beagle XM, no screen output at all
<XorA> lag: with natty image
<lag> XorA: Was that different with your Maverick one?
<lag> XorA: Are you using the Linaro Natty image?
<XorA> I only got Xm at weekend so I went straight to natty
<XorA> lag: ubuntu one
<lag> XorA: Ah okay, so it MAY not be related
<XorA> as far as I can see image is running as it resized the partitions on first boot
<lag> XorA: I would have become excited if it worked on Linaro Maverick, but didn't on Natty - 'cos that's what I'm seeing
 * XorA wishes default image had serial console
<hrw> XorA: linaro ones can
<lag> XorA: http://snapshots.linaro.org/11.05-daily/linaro-netbook-efl/latest/0/images/tar/
<ogra> XorA, the hedless ubuntu ones will
<ogra> janimo is working on them
<ogra> with NCommander
<XorA> ahah, crappy monitor
<XorA> my TV shows output
<XorA> must be some small signal difference between beagle and default PC boot resulotion
<fairuz> is perf tool is not 100% implemented on arm platform? i get errors when trying to get cache miss data from a program.
<fairuz> a stupid question.. i included arch/arm/include/asm/hardware/cache-l2x0.h in my code..but why cant I use the functions defined in arch/arm/mm/cache-l2x0.c? I got l2x0_init undefined error
<dmart> fairuz: regarding perf, what kernel and linux-tools package (if any) are you using?  What errors do you get?  It should work afaik
 * XorA is happy now, natty running good on XM
 * XorA curses monitor failings
<ogra> tell that to TI
<ogra> changing the HW all the time doesnt really help consistency
<XorA> beagle dont change that much :-)
<ogra> enough to break the display output
<XorA> that has never broken in Angstrom ;-)
<fairuz> dmart: still there?
<fairuz> I'm using linux-ti-omap4-tools-2.6.35-980 - Linux kernel tools for version 2.6.35-980
<fairuz> kernel 2.6.35-980-omap4
<fairuz> i tried perf stat -e L1-dcache-load-misses echo "test"
<fairuz> i got this error: No permission to collect stats. Consider tweaking /proc/sys/kernel/perf_event_paranoid.
<fairuz> when i use sudo with verbose -> Error: counter 0, sys_perf_event_open() syscall returned with -1 (No such device)
<dmart> fairuz: hold on, I'll have a go
<fairuz> dmart: ok thanks
<fairuz> dmart: you there?
<rsalveti> ogra: meego bug says that the qt neon bug is fixed at 4.7.2
<rsalveti> ogra: now we just need to wait until this get uploaded
<ogra> rsalveti, i will only belive it is fixed if i can start QT apps on my ac100 ;)
<rsalveti> ogra: sure :-)
<dmart> fairuz: still here btw ... I was distracted for a while ... still trying to set up a working system, I'm afraid
<fairuz> dmart: no problem =) take your time
<rsalveti> vstehle: trying to join, just a sec
<rsalveti> haha, still the first one
<fairuz> dmart: any luck with setting up the system?
<sebjan> rsalveti: vstehle is ooo this week, so he will probably not join
<rsalveti> oh, got no email from him
<rsalveti> sebjan: but thanks :-)
<rsalveti> one less call for today
<SQlvpapir> anyone got a Genesi Efika MX smarttop? In the specs they mention 720p resolution, but their blog talks about 1080p. what is the device actually capable of?
<ScottK> hrw: ^^^
<hrw> I have smartbook only
<hrw> SQlvpapir: ask on #efika
<SQlvpapir> thanks hrw, I had no idea there was a channel for that :) cheers
<ScottK> Ah.  I misread the question.
<XorA> arg, I wish I didnt have to debug ttyS drivers in natty :-(
<ogra> ??
<XorA> Im guessing someone broke serial port support in linux mainstream
<ogra> why would you use ttyS at all on omap
<XorA> this is on my desktop->beagle serial console
<ogra> use ttyO ;)
<XorA> ogra: and I have an omap3 on my desk with 4 8250 uarts
<ogra> well, i think all omaps use ttyO now, at least upstream
<XorA> ogra: no this one really has quad UART chip on it :-)
<XorA> 0000:04:04.0: ttyS6 at I/O 0xe880 (irq = 17) is a 16550A
<XorA> FATAL: failed to add device /dev/ttyS6: Filedes is not a tty
<XorA> bah
<rsalveti> ogra_: plymouth is running at the first boot but without any feedback from jasper
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> i guess i'll lose some hair finding out how to make it talk to the splash
<ogra_> press right or left cursor key
<ogra_> that gives you the output
<rsalveti> oh, too late
<rsalveti> ogra_: hehe, the installer is a lot faster without the slideshow
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> we should consider making that a permanent change ;)
<rsalveti> haha :-)
<ericb2> hello
<ericb2> is somebody using an EFIKA MX Netbook on this channel ?
<GrueMaster> ericb2: Try the #efika channel.
<GrueMaster> I haven't heard much about them here.
<ericb2> GrueMaster: thanks. To be honest, I'm discovering the machine name. But since we can buy one in Europa, 'm intersted to buy one for a student
#ubuntu-arm 2011-03-03
<dustin> Hello everyone
<dustin> Is there anyone around that might be able to help me with a problem?
<GrueMaster> Depends on the problem.  There are a few awake, others will be waking shortly.
<dustin> Last night I installed used https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall to install 10.10 on a 4GB microSD. However when I try to boot the BeagleBoard it gets to "Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel." and then halts for a while after which it reboots. Do you have any idea what might be going on?
<GrueMaster> dustin: This is normal.  The images are designed for a system with a monitor.  The first time you boot, a script in the initramfs expands the root partition to fill the empty space on the SD card, then reboots.  The second boot will start X with oem-config so you can configure the language, timezone, and user info.
<GrueMaster> If you are looking for an image that doesn't require a monitor, we should have a minimal image that can be configured via serial port when we release natty.  Stay tuned.
<GrueMaster> Or use rootstock to create one.
<dustin> np, I can attach a monitor for now. Thanks!
<GrueMaster> You will also need a keyboard & mouse.
<dustin> makes sense
<dustin> I have everything for that configuration, just not at my house
<dustin> Quick question
<GrueMaster> Real quick.  It is bedtime for me.  :P
<dustin> Will it still require the monitor/mouse/keyboard after it's setup? I would like to run it headless once it's setup.
<GrueMaster> Unfortunately yes, but you can make some tweaks to make it headless.  After you go through oem-config and return to gdm, you can log in and install openssh-server so you can ssh into it.  You can also create a serial login by making a /etc/init/ttyO2.conf file (may be ttyS2 for maverick).  Use one of the existing tty.conf files as a guide.
<dustin> great, thanks again. Have a good one.
<ogra_> NCommander, hey ... i adjusted Bug #727468 a bit, dont set bugs to high if they dont affect all arches (i have been slapped for that by the bugteam in the past)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 727468 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu "ubiquity-slideshow tears down oem-config on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727468
<ogra_> err
<NCommander> ogra_: Critical
<ogra_> dont set them to critical
<ogra_> yeah
<NCommander> and I didn't, it was already critical when I got there
<ogra_> ah
<NCommander> I just made the other bit match
<ogra_> must have been tobin then
<ogra_> yeah, thanks for that
<NCommander> ogra_: yeah, the work around works, GrueMaster tested it before he went to sleep
<ogra_> i added the slideshow to the loop, though its probably disputable to just add webkit directly
 * NCommander is "enjoying" insonima
<ogra_> NCommander, yup, i saw that in the backlog
<ogra_> NCommander, awesome work of you two tonight !!!
<NCommander> ogra_: its been known to happen ;-)
<ogra_> thanks for taking over the last (but most important) bit of that
<NCommander> ogra_: I'm just happy we didn't need to keep you up to sponsor + do respins
<ogra_> i hope ricardo has a magic idea for webkit now ;)
 * NCommander cheers
<NCommander> I don't get the sucky bug for once!
<ogra_> he picked it faster :P
<NCommander> (and I probably doomed myself for o-cycle ...)
<ogra_> probably not knowing what he got himself into
<XorA> morning
<NCommander> ogra_: I feel like now would be a great time to suddenly go on vacation
<ogra_> wrong ... now would be the time to get a quad core, 4G, SATA ARM board ;)
<hrw> ;D
<NCommander> ogra_: pfft. webkit can not be as bad as openoffice.org
<ogra_> no, its more in the area of QT :)
<NCommander> ogra_: Qt still only took a day to build
<ogra_> yeah, nothing compared to OO.o :P
<NCommander> ogra_: OO.o took two and a half with four Babbage boards
<ogra_> it takes 36h atm iirc
<ogra_> look at LP :)
<NCommander> building in and of itself was an interesting experiment in-
<NCommander> ogra_: bah, we've gotten better hardware :-/
<ogra_> no, still same HW
<ogra_> well, we got some XMs in the pool
<ogra_> but they are as slow as babbage
 * ogra_ just got a hack for the ac100 kernel that makes SD access actually run at 20M/s
<NCommander> ogra_: weee
<NCommander> can we get a 35 kernel
<ogra_> i wonde if the same hack is missing at the omap4 kernes
<ogra_> seems you didnt follow #ac100 for a while :)
<ogra_> work on .36 is pretty far
<ogra_> it boots, kbd, screen and touchpad work
<NCommander> ogra_: nifty. where's the ubuntu image ;-)
<ogra_> they are still working on getting the clocks right but it looks like i can roll a natty image with a 36 kernel which is mostly mainline+chromeos
<ogra_> will come
<ogra_> but i want a stable kernel first
<ogra_> its close but not fully ready
<NCommander> cool
<NCommander> wish I had the motivation/drive to help with that
<ogra_> oh, and there was an android 2.2 update
<ogra_> which means that toshiba will release a .32 kernel soon
<hrw> ogra_: you can run even 2.3 with 2.6.29 kernel
<NCommander> I'm going to probably go to sleep
<ogra_> hrw, yes, but the 2.2 update uses .32 on the ac100
<hrw> cool
<ogra_> NCommander, yeah, get some sleep before the meeting
<NCommander> ogra_: my alarm is set, but my brain might be on autopilot if I don't pass out
<ogra_> we'll make tobin poke you ;)
<hrw> argh.. gtk+2.0 depends on libqt3 to build
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> collaboration ftw
<hrw> at least according to xdeb
<NCommander> hrw: ow
 * NCommander notes that our collaboration went too far when a library called libqtgconf came into existance :-(
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> wait for libqtgnome and libgtkkde
<lool> ogra: Hey
<lool> ogra: ISTR you told me someone would look into https://code.launchpad.net/~sveinse/project-rootstock/apt-source-fix/+merge/47387 but I don't remember who?
<ogra> lool, ricardo
<ogra> lool, heh and i told you you would get complaints for the mx51 stuff *g*
 * ogra is happy he wasnt the one 
<janimo> quite a few LP users have armel in their names, making the team subscription require a few clicks
<ogra> use ubuntu-armel
<janimo> ogra, NCommander webkit is probably smaller than QT as QT includes webkit as a submodule :)
<janimo> regarding pkg build times
<ogra> pfft, details :)
<doko_> ogra, janimo, GrueMaster: libreoffice did build in natty. could somebody of you test it?
<janimo> doko_, oh I did not notice a new upload. Great
<janimo> doko_, where? Last upload still FTBFS
<janimo> since a few days ago
<doko_> janimo: kakadu/~doko/lo/3.3/
<doko_> not yet uploaded
<janimo> ah ok
<janimo> Can it be tested on kakadu via ssh -X ?
<janimo> that's what I'd test anyway on my panda as I have no monitor hooked up now
<ogra> heh
<ogra> if you have a very very fast internet connection you could probably test it in a chroot
<janimo> ah, it is in a chroot, forgot that had issues with remote X
<ogra> its only packages actually
<ogra> kakadu is a porter box, i dont think you have any environment available to test X packages, you would have to set up a chroot for that first
<ogra> and then somehow bend the shh X proxy to output to the internet
<ogra> *and* have a very fast connection ;)
<ogra> theoretically its possible i think, practically its surely faster to test locally
<hrw> define 'very fast'
<hrw> for some 1Mbps is very fast, for others 10Mbps is slow
<doko_> janimo: no, no custom package installs, and no X forwarding
<ogra> i dont think running X apps over less than 10Mbps is usable
<ogra> at least through an ssh tunnel ... XDMCP might be better here
<ogra> but elmo will kill you and your firstborn if you inject XDMCP into a porter box in the DC ;)
<lool> rsalveti: Did you intend to look at that rootstock merge request I mentioned earlier?
<rsalveti> lool: I'm not going to merge this for next release, that should be around next week
<ogra> s/not// ?
<rsalveti> for now I just want bug fixes, but will merge after next release
<ogra> ah
<rsalveti> there are enough bugs for a bugfix only release
<ogra> indeed
<Hairo> hello
<Hairo> speaking about arm-powered devices...
<Hairo> what about linux-powered smartphones
<Hairo> ??
<GrueMaster> Um, heard of android?
<Hairo> no, i mean linux embedded devices...
<Hairo> like some motorolas (ie: rokr e8, zine zn5)
<Hairo> armv6
<GrueMaster> Well, all work on this channel is armv7 based, so it wouldn't work anyways.
<Hairo> ok :(
<ogra> not android based though :)
<ogra> we dont do java ;)
<ogra> Hairo, if you find a v7 smartphone and do work on stuff this channel is right though
<Hairo> no, only v5, v6 is what i have... sorry...
<ogra> then debian is for you i'd guess
<Hairo> mmm
<ogra> they are compatible down to v4t
<Hairo> O.o
<Hairo> thanks for the info...
<Hairo> bye
<ericb2> looks like people are not welcome on #debian-arm
<ericb2> => You have been kicked from #debian-arm by ChanServ (Invite only channel)
<ogra> on OFTC ?
<ericb2> ogra: no, freenode
<ogra> note the debian channels arent on freenode
<ericb2> ogra: interesting
<ericb2> ogra: thanks
<ericb2> ogra : works better :)
<rsalveti> janimo: seems we have gles support for mythtv, but it's currently upstream only
<rsalveti> not integrated to the version we're using at natty
<rsalveti> and there are more than 10 patches for it to work, it seems
<rsalveti> this support would probably fix the ftbfs, and also add a new feature
<rsalveti> useful for arm, but don't know if the mythtv team wants to have it now or just fix the ftbfs by disabling opengl on arm
<prpplague> rsalveti: ping
<rsalveti> prpplague: pong
<prpplague> rsalveti: do you happen to know if the current ubuntu dev tree has support for the dvi interface on the panda?
<rsalveti> prpplague: we're working on that to be integrated probably next week
<rsalveti> with the 38 kernel
<prpplague> rsalveti: ahh ok
<rsalveti> heavily based on http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=roc/ubuntu-natty.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/ti-omap4-dev-linaro
<rsalveti> we'll probably just put some more fixes and then change it to be our default one
<GrueMaster> Is that rework that you did back in October required for DVI?  If so, I won't be able to test it.
<rsalveti> we're still using the 35 one
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: prpplague should know better
<prpplague> GrueMaster: techincally no, you can drive the DPI inteface from the DSS_FCLK, but the divisors are limited and you don't get exact clocks
<prpplague> GrueMaster: my suggestion is that if you have an older board with the DSI2_PLL unpowered, you need to get with nipuna and have it swapped out asap
<GrueMaster> So short answer (for us non-HW engineers) is no?
<GrueMaster> Mine is the EA1.
<rsalveti> probably maybe :-)
<rsalveti> as we got some pre-production boards
<prpplague> GrueMaster: short answer is that your board will work, but you can only test one of the two possible configurations
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: From what I remember, 2 of the boards we got at the October rally were reworked, and 4 were not.
<GrueMaster> Yours & Brian's iirc.
<prpplague> GrueMaster: i'd contact nipuna and get your swapped out, let him know you are doing DVI testing
<GrueMaster> Ok.  I'll go through davidm.  Might just swap with him as he has new ones for the ppa pool (which won't need DVI).
<GrueMaster> Faster turn around this way.
<hrw> ericm|ubuntu: do you plan to have imx xserver in ubuntu?
<dustin> Can anyone help me get networking working?
<dustin> nm, got it! :D
#ubuntu-arm 2011-03-04
<Audio>  Hi  Everybody..I am new to panda board. I have flashed SD card with ubuntu image from omappedia.org. Its booted successfully. But i am facing problem with audio. I am not getting audio when i play any .wav or .mp3 files. can you please help me out in this regard ?
<Audio> HI
<Audio> Anybody working on ubuntu on panda
<ericb2> Morning good people
<rsalveti> morning
<fairuz> morning (already afternoon here)
<rsalveti> GrueMaster: new 38 kernel just got uploaded to the PPA, once it's done will ping you back to request some testing :-)
<rsalveti> janimo: webkit build failed without logs, that means the builder was dead?
<rsalveti> but luckily I got a build at my own panda
<janimo> rsalveti, no idea sorry
<janimo> I only build stuff on my panda since I have it
<rsalveti> janimo: what was the build log for the packages that consumed so much of the builder that got killed?
<janimo> where was your faild build?
<janimo> something with timeout 300 minutes
<rsalveti> janimo: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-arm-dev/+archive/ppa/+buildjob/2297873
<rsalveti> the only status is: Failed to build
<janimo> you can check the build log of washngo for ex
<janimo> hmm, no idea why there is no buildlog
<janimo> I only see this when checking old builds for lucid I think
<janimo> who runs this PPA?
<janimo> maybe they know where to get the logs
<rsalveti> janimo: this is our team's ppa
<janimo> bu t who has access to the machines via ssh etc.
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: ok.
<dmart_> fairuz: Hey there, are you still trying to play with perf?
<fairuz> dmart: hey, yes
<dmart> fairuz: do you have something like this in dmesg?
<dmart> fairuz: [   73.799682] hw perfevents: unable to reserve pmu
<fairuz> dmart: yes
<fairuz> dmart: After I look up a bit, I think they implemented it in later kernel
<fairuz> dmart: not the one that I use
<dmart> fairuz: Not sure about that -- I get the same error with v2.6.38-rc7
<fairuz> dmart: hmm
<fairuz> dmart: wait i give you the link to the patch
<fairuz> dmart: maybe the patch is not in the mainstream
<fairuz> dmart: http://www.spinics.net/lists/arm-kernel/msg117063.html
<fairuz> dmart: look at this
<fairuz> dmart: there are 3 patches
<fairuz> dmart: the patches is omap4 specific i guess?
<compile_woes> hi, i currently produce a small network appliance built on the Intel Atom N270, but am considering migrating to a Marvell plug computer. I am having trouble finding any performance benchmarking comparisons to help me understand how they compare
<compile_woes> does anyone have any ideas? or comments? specifically, I am looking at this platform http://www.ionicsplug.com/stratusplus.html by Ionics
<GrueMaster> compile_woes: You should look for the specs on the processor to see if it is Armv7.  Otherwise it won't run Ubuntu newer than Karmic (9.10).
<Neko> it's sheeva, armv5te
<GrueMaster> compile_woes: Compliant with v5TE architecture.  So, no it won't run Ubuntu.  You could run debian though.
<Neko> he could run jaunty :D
<ogra> bug 728611
 * ogra pokes the bot
<ogra> bug 728611
<Neko> holy shit oliver.. don't do that :D
<GrueMaster> looks like our bug bot is mia.
<ogra> bug 728611
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> lots of netsplitting atm
<dmart> fairuz: Those patches make my kernel lock up after "[    1.183074] hw-breakpoint: maximum watchpoint size is 4 bytes." ... but it's possible I have some other necessary patch missing
#ubuntu-arm 2011-03-05
<noah1989> hi
<noah1989> i am using the natty alpha 2 image on the beagleboard
<noah1989> but i can't get tv out working
<noah1989> with the original bootargs i can see it booting, led blinks etc
<noah1989> but when i change it to omapdss.def_disp=tv
<noah1989> and omapfb.mode=tv:ntsc (or pal)
<noah1989> it just aits there and seems to be hanging
<rcn-ee> noah1989, do you have a serial cable? where's it hanging in the boot log?
<noah1989> i don't have a serial cable..
<noah1989> i could make one..
<noah1989> but if someone knows working bootargs i could avoid the hassle
<rcn-ee> okay, with out one.. it's hard to debug... so let's ask the obvious, how did you edit the boot.scr?
<noah1989> i edited it with vi
<noah1989> i tried making non-relevant changes and it still workd
<rcn-ee> ahh.. there's the problem... it has a crc header on it.. remove the header, and then regenerate it with mkimage..
<noah1989> looks like vi keeps the header intact
<rcn-ee> u-boot's probally loading the boot.scr then halts when checksum fails..
<noah1989> so the header contains a checksum?
<noah1989> that explains everything :D
<rcn-ee> yeah, kinda a pain.. there's patches to use a different methiod with a plain text file posted to u-boot..
<noah1989> damn.. there is no uboot-mkimage or similar package in gentoo..
<rcn-ee> could be u-boot-tools..
<noah1989> ah, thanks
<noah1989> wow, yeah! ubuntu boot screen on the head mounted display
<noah1989> but as soon as X starts it's black again
<noah1989> but i think i can fix that
<noah1989> thanks again!
<TheUni> rsalveti: you around by any chance?
<sveinse> Hi guys. Anything really interesting going on right now?
<sveinse> I got a 404 when trying to update linux-libc-dev from ports.ubuntu.com from maverick-security...
<lool> sveinse: How did you upgrade?
<lool> sveinse: does it happen again if you apt-get update && apt-get upgrade?
<sveinse> Yes
<sveinse> Hold on.. Perhaps not... *checking*
<lool> sveinse: I checked the packages indices and they seem correct
<lool> Package: linux-libc-dev
<lool> Version: 2.6.35-1027.48
<lool> Filename: pool/main/l/linux/linux-libc-dev_2.6.35-1027.48_armel.deb
<lool> and this package exists
<sveinse> Yes, for some reason apt-get tries to download 2.6.35-1025.44, so I guess my apt-get update is failing here for some reason.
<lool> sveinse: A log and/or your sources.list might sched some light on this
<lool> sveinse: You have any error from apt-get update?
<sveinse> Baah.. Permission errors on /var/lib/apt/lists were set to ro, so apt update didn't update the indices. (And a second error in my script suppressing apt-get update failure.)
<sveinse> Conclusion: My bad
<sveinse> What is the difference between armv6 and armv7? I notice Qt want armv6, but doesn't support  armv7.
<armin76> sveinse: newer+better processor :)
<sveinse> armin76: Yeah, and when Qt doesn't support armv7, only armv6, what does it lack? (I'm using -march=armv7-a in the compile options)
<lool> sveinse: What do you mean by doesn't suppor armv7?
<lool> sveinse: We're building qt in armv7 mode in Ubuntu AFAIK
<sveinse> lool, if -march=armv7-a is armv7 mode, yes. But for some reason, you cannot specify armv7 when configuring Qt, only armv6. There exists some inner loop implementations specific for armv6. I know that's a Q for Nokia, but I was curious to the difference between armv6 and armv7
<sveinse> or perhaps more correctly: some machine specific implementations, not just inner loops implementations
<TGM> hey guys
<TGM> I'm trying to install Ubuntu on my mininetbook, who aparently has a arm processor, anybody knows if can be installed on a  ALLFINE mini-notbook? I haven't managed to install it so far.
<lool> sveinse: armv7 doesn't exist
<lool> sveinse: It's armv7-a you want
<lool> sveinse: actually, armv7 does exist; my bad
<lool> sveinse: I don't know what armv7 means, but you probably want armv7-a
#ubuntu-arm 2011-03-06
<Kurlon> So, if all goes well I'll be attempting to fire up Ubuntu-ARM on a Nook Color.  Is there a soft-keyboard in the stock arm images?
<Kurlon> I don't have BT or USB, so my only interaction initially is going to be via touchscreen
<Kurlon> First try, flashing 'A N D R O I D _' prompt, kernel fired up, no userland
<noah1989> hi
<noah1989> anyone knows where to get the kernel sources used for natty alpha-2? (omap3)
<noah1989> i am trying to figure out if the dds driver accepts anything else than "tv:ntsc" or "tv:pal" for tv out
<noah1989> (because both of these modes result in an image larger than the screen)
<ogra> noah1989, apt-get source linux
<dmajnem2> hi
<dmajnem2> I have the image from the OMAPMaverickInstall page
<dmajnem2> I was wondering how do I get it to display on the UART by default on my beagleboard
<ogra> there is a section at the bottom linking to a page how to edit boot.scr
<ogra> note though that you will need the monitor for the initial setup tool
<dmajnem2> ogra: thanks, I see the file but it does not seem like it should be modified up front
<ogra> we will have a headless developer image in natty that will default to serial output
<dmajnem2> ah, cool
<ogra> (not yet there)
<dmajnem2> ah, was just about to say
<dmajnem2> how do I modify the scr file? just edit it?
<noah1989> dmajnem2: no. remove the first 72 bytes, save it to boot.cmd and then use mkimage to add the header again
<noah1989> it contains a checksum, so just editing the file will fail
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleEditBootscr
<dmajnem2> noah1989: that is what I figured, thanks
<dmajnem2> do I need to remove the omapfb.mode stuff?
<bambee> hi, anyone has a toshiba ac100 here ?
<dmajnem2> hrm
<dmajnem2> the last that I see from it is "Enabling additional executable binary formats binfmt-support"
<dmajnem2> no more output :(
<dmajnem2> could this be because I did not disable the other option?
<ogra> dmajnem2, thats the whole boot process, if you want to see more, remove the quiet from the cmdline
<dmajnem2> ogra: that does not seem to be the case
<dmajnem2> it is booted now as I can see stuff on the HDMI
<dmajnem2> yet, login does not show up on the tty
<dmajnem2> I added "console=ttyS2,115200n8 serialtty=ttyS2" to my boot.scr
<ogra> no, thats off by default
<ogra> you need to create an upstart config for serial login
<dmajnem2> ok, how do I do that?
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialConsoleHowto
<dmajnem2> thanks
<dmajnem2> ogra: don't I want ttyS2.conf?
<dmajnem2> or is it ttySO2.conf ?
<dmajnem2> huh, I got a lot more output disabling quite
<dmajnem2> quiet*
<dmajnem2> but it still is "stuck" in the same place
<dmajnem2> yeah, no beans with ttyO2.conf
<dmajnem2> ah, perhaps it should be S2 instead
<dmajnem2> ah, got it working
<dmajnem2> thanks guyts
<dmajnem2> guys*
<pipposantaCROS> anyone with glsl knowledge here?
<Schamus> Hi, can someone help me?
<Schamus> I've installed Ubuntu 10.10 on my Beagleboard (A3) three times. Each time it works for the set up, boots up nicely. When i go to turn it off, i wait for the display to say "no signal" and turn off the beagleboard. Unfortunately, on reboot
<Schamus> the board reaches the "Uncompressing Linux. Booting the kernel..." and then restarts to the beginning Uboot messages
<Schamus> and loops like this indefinitely
<Schamus> Am i supposed to turn off the beagleboard differently?
<Schamus> anyone?
<Schamus> no one? =\
<nacho_> hi guys..maybe my question is crazy and maybe I am wrong and this is not the right channel but maybe u can help me
<nacho_> I own a pocket loox 420 with an arm proccesr v5..is there any possibility to install linux on it
<Schamus> So I'm thinking I might have a problem in that i'm using a microusb for power, instead of the 5v
<Schamus> this may be the reason it won't boot past certain stages.
#ubuntu-arm 2012-02-27
<hrw> flash-kernel should die in pain
<steev_> +1
<ogra_> hrw, it already did, you are dealing with its dead corpse atm :) ... (there is a rewrite from lool that didnt make it into debian or ubuntu yet)
<steev_> rewrite or refactor
<hrw> one day I will get pissed enough and will write own tool
<hrw> on mx53loco it does not takes care of boot.scr
<zumbi> ogra_: the thing in experimental? are you syncing it in ubuntu anytime soon/
<ogra_> not for precise, no
<zumbi> for precise+1?
<ogra_> we would like to but dont have the resources to fix each and every isssue
<zumbi> ogra_: I would be happy if debian and ubuntu will sync f-k
<ogra_> and there is a prob with the handling of the kernel cmdline .... all ubuntu images use root=UUID=*, it doesnt support that at all yet
<ogra_> since there is a weird mechanism to have an initrd script for finding the rootfs partition ... we cant use that since we are working towards an (optional) initrdless boot
<zumbi> ogra_: file a BR ? :)
<ogra_> well, i would rather just like to submit a patch that fixes it ... but that requires that i have the time to actually look into it ...
<ogra_> and due to the changes in ubuntu land (ubuntu-arm was dropped to make the actual ubuntu teams care more for arm stuff and not just dump their stuff on other teams) i'll be busy until release
<zumbi> ogra_: ok, thanks, just syncing f-k would be nice
<ogra_> i doubt a BR would help much here, simply because there is a conceptional difference between debian and ubuntu in this space ... it would be an ubuntu only thing, debian doesnt plan for initrd-less boots i think
<ogra_> we cant sync the one in experimental yet ... have to looked at the diff ubuntu vs debian has in the *current* code ? there is tons of stuff to be proted
<ogra_> *ported
<zumbi> no, it does not, but it's nice to have initrd-less boots
<ogra_> once we have time for that (i.e. beginning of P+1) we will look into it
<steev_> starting from an ubuntu-core tarball, what's the proper way to add a normal user to the system?
<NekoXP> steev_, useradd right?
<steev_> NekoXP: i know how to useradd, i just want to add one "properly"
<steev_> ala the way oem-config does it, guess i can look through oem-config's code
<NekoXP> it uses useradd :)
<steev_> yeah i guess that's the smartest move, i was considering just using oem-config itself but holy hell it wants 221MB on top of ubuntu-desktop, which seems retardedly stupid for some reason
<steev_> not sure why oem-config-gtk would pull in kde but hey, who am i
<ogra_> steev_, adduser (never use useradd manually)
<ogra_> steev_, also, oem-config autoremoves itself and all its deps once it ran so these 200M are moot
<steev_> ogra_: just find it odd that oem-config-gtk would require installing 200M (mootly) just to uninstall it a few minutes later
<ogra_> well, there might be a bug, not sure
<ogra_> it needs all tools for all possible config options though
<ogra_> i.e. encryptions bits ... -gtk needs X indeed etc
<ogra_> it sums up
<ogra_> i would also not recommend using -gtk for minimal images, there is also a -debconf frontend
<NekoXP> ogra_, okay you're right, adduser (but that calls useradd, and useradd exists on BSD so I picked that :)
<steev_> ogra_: debconf was broken in maverick
<steev_> so i've tried to avoid it
<NekoXP> noooo.. it worked, we just avoided it because it wasn't the best solution
<ogra_> maverick ? ... well, ubuntu-core was nonexistant in maverick :P
<steev_> NekoXP: no, it didn't work properly
<NekoXP> also having -debconf run was great but it didn't run on a serial console properly at all
<ogra_> it runs by default on the preinstalled server images since natty iirc
<NekoXP> steev_, I ran it tons of times, I even considered using it... the idea was ship a headless system with it but it never panned out because it refused to output on a serial console
<steev_> NekoXP: i used it on a natty install and it utterly failed (that natty sdcard i used to have), i had to go with -gtk then
<ogra_> all preinstalled server images default to a headless serial install ... so that issue is fixed since several releases
<NekoXP> yeah it has been
<steev_> if it's been fixed, then i'll give it a shot
<NekoXP> steev_, in fact -debconf is the only backend that really works 'cos the gtk ones don't stop oem-configing when you're done :D
<NekoXP> ugh this is just taking far too long
<steev_> ogra_: mmm, shouldn't oem-config-gtk start before lightdm?
<steev_> lightdm is starting and all i have is guest session, not exactly what i'm after.  adduser route it is
<ogra_> steev_, you need to enable it before booting
<ogra_> touch /var/run/oem-config iirc
<steev_> ah whoops, forgot that step
<steev_> ah, because /var/run is now a symlink to /run which doesn't exist
<ogra_> well, i remembered wrongly ...
<ogra_> it is /var/lib/oem-config/run
<ogra_> (see the upstart script)
<NekoXP> steev_, see the maverick installed oem-install script, it enables it before it unmounts the target
<steev_> yeah, i remembered after i tried that stuff
<ogra_> GrueMaster, could you attach a syslog of a failed preseed install to bug 924018 ?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 924018 in ubiquity "Preseeding doesn't work with oem-config" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924018
<Person987> Hi all, I have a pandaboard where I've installed the "power button" hack on pins 12 and 8.  Connecting the two does make the pandaboard shut down and start up.  My question is, does it do a "safe" shutdown or is it basically like cutting power?
<Person987> (using Ubuntu on the PandaBoard)
<ogra_> Person987, probably ask in #pandaboard, we rarely do HW hacks in ubuntu :)
<ppisati> GrueMaster: for when you are awake - http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/lp861296/linux-image-2.6.35-903-omap4_2.6.35-903.31~3g1gsplit_armel.deb
<ppisati> GrueMaster: M/omap4 that should fix the mmap() issue, please try it out
<steev_> ogra_: it left ~70mb on the system; not horrible, but still a minor annoyance  i can live with it though, since i was just messing about
<ogra_> that was with ubuntu-core as a base ?
<steev_> yeah, ubuntu-core, then ubuntu-desktop were installed
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> not sure if you can call that a bug, oem-config was definitely never designed for something as weird as ubuntu-core :)
<steev_> lots of libakonadi stuff, whatever that is
<ogra_> kde libs
<ogra_> intresting that you got them at all when you only installed oem-config-gtk
<ogra_> (or oem-config-debconf fwiw)
<steev_> well something oem-config-gtk deps on deps on something in the kde camp
<ogra_> it shouldnt, it should only install the kde bits if you install i.e. the toplevel metapackage like oem-config
<ogra_> if you explicitly just install -gtk or -debconf, nothing from kde should get pulled in
<steev_> i'd say i wish i had done this on a faster sdcard, but that's one of my class 10s, so i wish i had done this on the ssd
<steev_> ogra_: http://www.steev.net/files/oem-config-gtk.png
<GrueMaster> steev_: Try "apt-get install oem-config-gtk ubiquity-frontend-gtk".  That should fix the dependency issue.  The problem is oem-config-gtk depends on ubiquity and ubiquity will pull in all frontends unless specified.
<ogra_> oh, right
<NekoXP> that's true
<ogra_> i had thought about --no-install-recommends :)
<ogra_> but GrueMaster's guess is the better one
<steev_> of curiosity, why wouldn't you depend on ubiquity-frontend-gtk instead of ubiquity?
<NekoXP> because ubiquity is the core installer
<NekoXP> the frontend part is just the bit that shows the gui components
<NekoXP> what it should do is oem-config-gtk depends on ubiquity-frontend-gtk which depends on ubiquity but ubiquity should NOT depend on frontends
<NekoXP> that's the cause of the problem here right?
<GrueMaster> ppisati: Test kernel for lp:861296 passed.
#ubuntu-arm 2012-02-28
<pbuckley> pbuckley@panda:~/thrift$ apt-cache search libtoolize
<pbuckley> pbuckley@panda:~/thrift$
<pbuckley> is this expected?
<infinity> pbuckley: Yes, there's no such package.
<infinity> pbuckley: You're looking for libtool.
<infinity> pbuckley: And possibly also autoconf and automake.
<pbuckley> thank you
<infinity> pbuckley: (note that command-not-found would have told you)
<infinity> adconrad@cthulhu:~$ libtoolize
<infinity> The program 'libtoolize' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<infinity> sudo apt-get install libtool
<pbuckley> ill be sure to check there in the future
<pbuckley> i rely a little to much on apt i suppose
<GrueMaster> Actually, infinity that doesn't work for me on a fresh netboot install with basic server and ssh server installed.
<twb> infinity: you can turn that off per-user if you want
<twb>  # Ignore Ubuntu's attempt to slow exit(126) to a crawl.
<twb>  unset command_not_found_handle
<twb> ...in .shrc or .bashrc, whichever you use
<lilstevie> twb, but the average user does not
<twb> Sure, which is why I don't simply uninstall that package from shared systems
<twb> But I didn't read enough of the scrollback, and misunderstood what infinity was getting at
<lilstevie> fair enoug
<lilstevie> +h
<pbuckley> out of curiosity, why is there no thrift ubuntu package?
<GrueMaster> pbuckley: Erm, what is it?
<pbuckley> http://thrift.apache.org/
<pbuckley> Thrift is a software framework for scalable cross-language services development. It combines a software stack with a code generation engine to build services that work efficiently and seamlessly between C++, Java, Python, PHP, Ruby, Erlang, Perl, Haskell, C#, Cocoa, JavaScript, Node.js, Smalltalk, and OCaml.
<GrueMaster> Yea, reading the web site now.  Not sure, but it is probably one of those things that slipped under the radar.  We can't always package everything out there.  You can, and propose it for universe.
<steev_> mmm, rsyslog doesn't actually appear to... log
<twb> I think you missed a couple of buzzwords
<steev_> at least, i don't have the usual suspects in /var/log
<twb> steev_: is it running?  Do you have an entry like "*.* /var/log/foo" in your rsyslog.conf / .conf.d/*.conf ?
<twb> Wikipedia's definition is: Apache Thrift, a remote procedure call (RPC) framework developed at Facebook for "scalable cross-language services development".
<steev_> twb: whatever is default in precise, i tend to not mess around with the default ubuntu configs, it always seems to break things
<pbuckley> its a requirement for scribe
<pbuckley> which is also awesome
<twb> steev_: should work then, although I haven't checked precise it shouldn't be much different from oneiric and lucid
<steev_> pgrep rsyslog returns 825, and ls /var/log is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/860000
<steev_> actually
<twb> steev_: you have log entries there, so what's the big deal
<steev_> looking at 50-default.conf it looks like the usual suspects are commented out
<steev_> twb: no messages, no daemon or cron.log
<steev_> are they commented out on purpose on arm?
<infinity> No.
<twb> AFAIK no, but I'm no expert
<infinity> You don't have these two?
<infinity> auth,authpriv.*                 /var/log/auth.log
<infinity> *.*;auth,authpriv.none          -/var/log/syslog
<infinity> (And a few others)
<steev_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/860004 is the 50-default.conf
<steev_> messages is deprecated then? and everything should point at syslog?
<GrueMaster> steev_: Yes.  It has been that way for a while on ubuntu.
<GrueMaster> (I can't even remember seeing a messages log in Ubuntu).
<steev_> ah, okay, good to know.  messages is standard on... pretty much every distro, that i knew of.  and it existed around maverick and i'm pretty sure i had it back when i had natty installed on my amd64 box
<GrueMaster> Oops.  I take it back.  My lucid system still spews in /var/log/messages.
<GrueMaster> I think we switched in either Natty or Oneiric.
<GrueMaster> I don't have a natty system running atm, but my oneiric box shows no signs of a messages log.
<GrueMaster> And my maverick systems do.
<GrueMaster> (they're stable to the point I never bother to look at the logs, hence why I missed it).
<pbuckley> # ls messages
<pbuckley> ls: cannot access messages: No such file or directory
<pbuckley> oneiric
<pbuckley> likewise for precise
<infinity> There was no point in duplicating everything across multiple logs.
<infinity> People who want fine-grained control and splitting can, but it disn't make sense as a default, so we stopped.
<twb> 13:50 <pbuckley> ls: cannot access messages: No such file or directory
<twb> That's because Ubuntu is not RHEL
<twb> The main logs are /var/log/syslog and /var/log/auth.log; by default all logs passing through syslog(3) should land in at least one of those.
<steev_> infinity: i'm fine, syslog seems to == what i was looking for
<twb> Sorry, I didn't twig that you were expecting RH-flavoured log file names
<infinity> twb: Well, to be fair, that used to be pretty standard everywhere. :P
<infinity> But yeah, like I said, we came to the conclusion that duplicating everything was just silly in the default setup.
<twb> infinity: sorry, I'm too young to remember system 3 and V
<pbuckley> lol
<steev_> oh how i wish i was that young
<twb> steev_: still got your copy of Lion's ? :-)
<steev_> sorry, I don't know what that means.  As someone who grew up in Detroit, any time someone mentions Lions, all I can think is football
<twb> textbook from UNSW, first easy access to Unix source code
<steev_> ahh, i'm not *that* old :)
<twb> Hum.  I didn't think sys3 was much younger...
<twb> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions%27_Commentary_on_UNIX_6th_Edition,_with_Source_Code
<twb> Wow, that's listed as 1996
<twb> Ah, that's a reprint
<twb> Research Unix V6 was 1975; Lions was 1976, ... System III was 1982, SysV was 1983. -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_System_V
<steev_> surprisingly few crashes
<steev_> twb: ah, so lions was printed the year before i was born.  i didn't get into computers til i was 5 :(
<ogra_> janimo`, hmm, seems the camera doesnt work anymore in the latest precise image (led switches on, but it only takes black pics in the installer)
<janimo`> ogra_, is this with yesterday's kernel upload?
<janimo`> I know I had gst-properties work with the 1.2 kernel
<janimo`> not sure I tried with 2.1
<janimo`> I hope webcam is not at odds with the bluetooth headset requirements
<ogra_> not sure it made it onto the image yet ... i'll try to upgrade once the installer finished
<ogra_> it shouldnt
<janimo`> I only uploaded meta this morning
<janimo`> so may not have made it , no idea
<ogra_> ah, k, then its likely not in the img
<ogra_> there is a rebuild running right now though
<ogra_> that might pick it up
<janimo`> could be a userland issue. I know at one point the ubiquity part worked but cheese did not
<ogra_> right, i will test after the install is done
<ogra_> its already removing packages
<ogra_> janimo`, hmm, the cam works with gstreamer-properties
<ogra_> so it must be an ubiquity thing
<janimo`> ogra_, so ubiquity/oem cfg issue or bad timing
<ogra_> or even fbdev
<janimo`> ev or other working on ubiquity would know if anything changed recently in that area
<janimo`> or maybe the logs even show some ENODEV type errors
<janimo`> and really, is firefox that good already on arm? I still have chromium installed but do not use the ac100 much
<ogra_> well, for me on armel FF is faster
<ogra_> it starts faster and renders faster
<ogra_> and i can easily open 20 tabs without ram issues
<ogra_> geeez !
<janimo`> if chromium did not slow down that is indeed good news
<ogra_> pulling out the SD while being in initrd made the kernel freak out
<ogra_> hmm, NM misbehaves
<ogra_> it worked fine during install, weird
<ogra_> hmpf, i see firmware errors
 * ogra_ installs libO for a test
<janimo`> ogra_, how's libo? I completely forgot to actually test the deb on armhf
<ogra_> runs fine
<ogra_> no probs with it at all :)
 * ogra_ found another issue though ... not libO related 
<ogra_> somehow ac100 ends up with a bunch of kde bits installed ... while all other arm images dont
<ogra_> the only difference between the images are jasper vs ac100-tarball-installer ... but they have similar deps
<Riddell> GrueMaster: well if I don't even have a power supply it's not going to work right?
<Riddell> where do I buy a power supply?
<GrueMaster> Do you have a USB Y cable?
<Riddell> umm what's one of those?
<GrueMaster> It doesn't take 3-4 amps to power on the board and run a desktop image.
<GrueMaster> They are the cables that ship with external usb drives.
<Riddell> GrueMaster: http://htc-linux.org/wiki/images/6/64/Usb-y-power-cable.jpg ?
<GrueMaster> I've done some power measurements here, and under load running the lamp stack, the highest power load was 1.5A with drive.
<GrueMaster> yes.
<GrueMaster> That is the cable.
<Riddell> umm what plugs in where with that?
<GrueMaster> The two large plugs go to a pc or laptop or powered USB hub.  The mini plug goes in the panda.
<Riddell> that image shows two USB male plugs and one USB female, all large
<GrueMaster> You should be able to get HDMI & USB keyboard/mouse.  What you probably won't get is wifi, bluetooth, video acceleration, and addon board power.
<GrueMaster> Woa, didn't see the other end.  A USB Mini cable should plug off of that then.  If you have that cable.
<Riddell> GrueMaster: ok I have a cable which is usb male to usb mini male so that plugs into my laptop and the pandaboard
<Riddell> and I even get a green LED turning on
<GrueMaster> It needs to be a y cable.  Not sure a single USB port will supply enough power.
<Riddell> oh so it needs two usb male to plug into my laptop and a usb mini to plug into the panda?
<GrueMaster> yes.
<Riddell> GrueMaster: ok they'll go on the shopping list
<Riddell> what else do I need?
<Riddell> SD Card?  what size?
<Riddell> HDMI to VGA?
<GrueMaster> SD card.  4G or better.  Class 10 preferable.
<GrueMaster> There is no HDMI to VGA.  HDMI is digital, VGA is analog.  You can get converters, but monitors are just as cheap.
<Riddell> oh, so no easy way to get it to work with my vga monitor?
<GrueMaster> Not that I know of.
<Riddell> ok that puts a stopped in my plan
<Riddell> I need to ask jason if I can expense an HDMI monitor then
<GrueMaster> Does your monitor do DVI?
<GrueMaster> Riddell: ^^^
<Riddell> no
<Riddell> VGA only
<GrueMaster> Time for a new monitor anyways then.  But you can convert hdmi to dvi.
<GrueMaster> DVI supports bot analog & digital signals.
<GrueMaster> *both
<GrueMaster> Bestbuy lists monitors for under $100 that have VGA/DVI that will work.  I'm sure Amazon does too.  Your local shops should also carry them.
<prpplague> rsalveti: know anyone on the linaro samsung landing team?
<rsalveti> prpplague: not from top of my head, would need to check the team
<rsalveti> guess nobody is around at irc
<prpplague> yea seems so
<rsalveti> but you can simply mail linaro-dev@lists.linaro.org if there's something you want the lt to read
<GrueMaster> infinity: Can you ping me on #arm?  Not sure if the connection is still up.
<infinity> GrueMaster: I would if you were there.
<GrueMaster> Hmmm.  Nothing here to indicate a dropped connection, except silence.
<GrueMaster> Really hate that.
<infinity> Down with Quassel, up with irssi? :)
<prasana> What do you guys think are the benefits of running ubuntu's new idea of running ubuntu on android
<GrueMaster> For phones that are designed for it, it makes an excellent platform for doing presentations and stuff.
<GrueMaster> Lot more portable than a laptop or tablet.
<GrueMaster> For example, I have this keyboard, and if I had that phone, I could go to a trade show (or any other forum) and do a presentation literally out of pocket (if the forum had a screen).
<GrueMaster> http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/VT2012/VisionTek-CandyBoard-Bluetooth-Keyboard.jpg
<NekoXP> it's a shame it's only for systems like that Motorola thing where it docks into the back of a laptop shell
<NekoXP> and that already happened, it's a product shipping already..
<GrueMaster> The demo I saw had a simple dock that had usb & HDMI out (plus charging capabilities).  The doc was smaller than the phone.
<NekoXP> http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile+Phone+Accessories/Docking-Stations/Atrix-Laptop-Dock-US-EN
<NekoXP> it's a fucking lovely idea, shame basically nobody cares
<GrueMaster> The laptop dock is just one example.
<GrueMaster> http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile+Phone+Accessories/Docking-Stations/HD-Station-for-ATRIX2-US-EN
<GrueMaster> This is what I'm talking about.
<NekoXP> again, I doubt anybody really cares about this kind of functionality.. part of the problem is having "full firefox" doesn't make much sense at that level, presentation software is going to suck somewhat, while you can do what they're doing (run something in a chroot in Android), it means you're going to lack all the integration from Android to phone except for "the sd card is linked in to the chroot so I can read the presentation on Ope
<NekoXP> nOffice as well as in the Android document reader".. if you wanted to do a presentation out of pocket a better idea would be to have proper presentation software for Android, unless your goal was to edit it at the last minute between puling it out of pocket and doing the presentation
<NekoXP> at which point you probably had your laptop with you anyway and you can tether it to your phone
<NekoXP> convergence only works if people don't have the things you're trying to converge already and rely on them
<NekoXP> plus: Apple doesn't need a "full Firefox, Linux OS" on their iPad or iPhone, and all told, Atrix stuff isn't any cheaper than either Apple product :)
<GrueMaster> Oh really?  Then what's the point of having a smart phone in the first place?
<NekoXP> certainly not to do work.
<GrueMaster> Especially if you already have your laptop?
<NekoXP> I use it to browse email, occasionally check facebook, play WWF or Angry Birds, and it's very very handy for Skype
<NekoXP> it also has a camera
<NekoXP> and is an mp3 player
<GrueMaster> All things you can just do on your laptop.
<NekoXP> what, take a family photo on my VAIO?
<NekoXP> or go running with it strapped to my back? it's 12lbs...
<GrueMaster> But, can your laptop fit in your pocket for when you need to travel for a presentation?
<NekoXP> no but I tend to travel with a little more than a pair of underwear stuffed in my jacket pocket just in case. I have a bag for all this stuff
<GrueMaster> The point is, not everyone will want this.  hell, a lot of people don't even have cell phones, let alone smart phones.
<NekoXP> the sales of the lapdock and even the atrix dock have been slow at best...
<GrueMaster> I do know of several people where this would make more sense than lugging a laptop, even a small netbook.
<NekoXP> I don't care what verizon says, having a tablet doesn't mean your 7 year old kid can open a lemonade business
<GrueMaster> Again, early market, and not for everyone.
<NekoXP> tablet market has basically bottomed out already because it's not about having a tablet, but about having an iPad or a Kindle. If you're not one of those people don't look at you in the store.
<NekoXP> what makes people want those is iTunes or Amazon, it isn't running presentations at work.
<GrueMaster> I remember an excellent quote from the guys that created the ascii art driver for quake 2 that applies here:  If you have to ask why, this isn't for you.
<NekoXP> I know why, I also know why the number of people who want it doesn't make a market
<GrueMaster> I wonder if Steve Jobs had this argument before coming out with the ipod or the iphone?
<GrueMaster> You are essentially arguing chicken/egg theory.
<NekoXP> no, because Steve Jobs said "it has iTunes, it could be a sheet of glass with a smiley face painted in dog turd on it, but people would still buy it, so make it"
<NekoXP> and he was right.. that sheet of glass smeared in dog turd eclipses every other tablet on the market despite almost identical features, because they don't sell tablets, they sell iPads
<NekoXP> to people who already have a MacBook and an iPod.
<NekoXP> putting Ubuntu on it doesn't make it replace your laptop, it's just not the same thing.
<GrueMaster> That's one point of view.
<GrueMaster> But the same argument could be made about other products, like this:http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika
<NekoXP> it's even not the same thing if they come out with Windows Phone 8 and put Windows 8 ARM on it so you can dock it and use it like a real computer. It's just not what people want out of a phone, that level of convergence doesn't appeal to anyone.
<NekoXP> GrueMaster, yeah, we know
<NekoXP> netbooks are a fucking abysmal idea, it turns out.
<NekoXP> we got there fairly early and found nobody else could even make it work
<GrueMaster> Only because Microsoft killed the market.
<NekoXP> not even Canonical
<NekoXP> with what?
<NekoXP> people don't buy Atom netbooks either, or they wouldn't be being refurbed and sold at half price everywhere. the number of returns is staggering.
<GrueMaster> They killed the x86 netbook market.
<GrueMaster> The hardware costs have such little return that manufacturers couldn't make money off of them.  Then MS told them their specs were not adequate and made a set of requirements to run Windows.
<GrueMaster> (which really sucks on these btw.  I have one).
<NekoXP> I think Intel did more than Microsoft for that by making a chipset which had too high expectations of power consumption with very little in the way of performance
<NekoXP> I have 3 of the damn things.
<NekoXP> one of them bought specifically because it had *TWO* SD card slots, I use it for copying them and imaging
<GrueMaster> Not sure on that.  My Acer Aspire One has 4.5 hours of battery life under Ubuntu.
<GrueMaster> (the Intel reference).
<NekoXP> mine too but it does have a 6-cell battery and weighs 4lbs
<NekoXP> they're not light enough, not fast enough, and at full price you may as well get a 15" Dell Inspiron
<GrueMaster> Granted, it isn't as good as my AC100 in weight or battery life, but out of the box it performs better.
<GrueMaster> I keep it because the size is right for me.  I could have bought a new laptop this year, but for me, I didn't see the benefit.
<NekoXP> I tested that and basically figured it's down to really awesome graphics drivers on the Atom, and the actual hard disk instead of the SSD which is frankly not as good as it sounded
<GrueMaster> I have a powerful desktop with easy remote access for heavy lifting, and I don't play games enough to justify anything else.
<NekoXP> yeah I have an xbox
<NekoXP> and I use my VAIO for compiling, on Ubuntu, in VMware (on Windows 7)
<NekoXP> and all the other things like writing docs, generating decent PDFs, Photoshop, managing the servers at work (exporting a VM is really cpu intensive apparently)
<GrueMaster> I use windows in a VM to test win32-imagewriter and taxes.  Nothing else.
<NekoXP> as far as I'm concerned any netbook that doesn't perform like a Core i3 and look like a MacBook Air 11" isn't going to go anywhere.
<NekoXP> end of the year that product may actually be something someone can actually make, but convincing them to use Linux or Android is a hard sell, I'm glad for Windows 8 since it might actually give us a viable market to hit
<GrueMaster> Again, usage model.
<NekoXP> there's always been and always will be a market for nettops, which is great
<NekoXP> even if they're not on the desktop and just being used to back digital signage or some university project
<GrueMaster> And cracking Microsofts monopoly is extremely difficult when thy don't play fair.
<NekoXP> MS don't so much have a monopoly so much as have the best tool for the job
<GrueMaster> Erm, sure.
<NekoXP> I would agree that in certain respects they are a glistening, glittery poop in a field of less glittery, far stinkier poops. But if you are forced to buy a poop at least get the gold plated one.
<navalny_mudak> did anyone use ubuntu on lenovo k1?
<NekoXP> the gold might be worth something :)
<GrueMaster> I used to own a computer business (before I even knew Linux).  They are very manipulative of the market.
<NekoXP> eh.. it's not just Microsoft who do that, I can name a certain astronaut millionaire who doesn't play fair either
<infinity> NekoXP: They may or may not have the best tool for the job, but when you can't buy 99% of the PC hardware on the market without an OS, I call that a forced monopoly.
<NekoXP> not forced by Microsoft, though - forced by the market
<infinity> NekoXP: I'm not even saying I want Ubuntu preinstalled (I don't care), but I *must* buy a copy of Windows just to get the hardware I want.
<NekoXP> if you ship a laptop with no Windows on it, people send it back
<infinity> NekoXP: Not forced by MS is pretty much a lie.  Vendors get lots of incentives to do it this way.
<NekoXP> given that the cost of Windows basically doesn't even factor in to the cost of your laptop given the licensing deals OEMs do on their hardware, you're not actually getting a bad deal, although they will "refund" you if you ask
<GrueMaster> I think http://www.system76.com/ would argue that.
<NekoXP> that's called volume licensing, and it's not an unfair model
<infinity> "forced" is a strong word, perhaps, but nothing in financial markets is "forced" so much as "coerced".
<infinity> NekoXP: "volume licensing" shouldn't define what you do with all your hardware.
<NekoXP> no, what customers WANT is what defines what they do with it
<infinity> NekoXP: And "they will refund if you ask" is also a whole lot more effort than people claim it is (and often just plain not true).
<NekoXP> Microsoft use the fact that everyone WANTS windows, whether they know it or not (usually by the disappointment when it boots Fedora Core instead), will not buy a laptop that doesn't come with Windows or MacOS
<GrueMaster> Customers want working systems.  When given no options, they go with the only choice.
<NekoXP> Dell do ship Ubuntu, but those people who are gullible enough to be pulled into the fallacy of choice of operating system don't make up anything approaching a significant market
<infinity> NekoXP: So, your contention is that when purchasing from someone who lets you tailor a system online, offering a "No Operating System preinstalled" option would be against customers' wishes, because they might accidentally click that instead of the (presumably default) "Windows 7 64-bit Preinstalled"?
<GrueMaster> Best Buy even has agreements with Microsoft to only sell Windows based systems.  Microsoft allowed them to carry Apple only to not monopolize the market.
<NekoXP> infinity, no, I would say offering it by default with "No OS installed" would be against their wishes
<rbasak> Don't preinstalled crapware companies also subsidize desktop computer prices? No OS == no crapware == no subsidy == more expensive desktop.
<infinity> NekoXP: I wasn't talking defaults, just options.  You tell me that I don't actually want options.
<NekoXP> offering it with "Ubuntu Linux 12.04" by default would also not be the default option most people would pick when shopping for a laptop
<NekoXP> I'm all for options
<GrueMaster> For someone that sells linux based systems, you don't make a very good convincing argument.
<NekoXP> you check the sales figures and see a hundred million Windows devices sold and 100,000 Ubuntu devices sold for the same product and you think.. that's 0.1% of the market, the default should be Windows
<infinity> rbasak: And yet, I'd still pay a tiny premium to know that none of my purchase price is going to a product (Windows) that I won't be using.
<NekoXP> we don't HAVE a choice
<NekoXP> Windows doesn't exist for the systems we make, but if it did, we'd sell the shit out of it
<infinity> NekoXP: Erm.  Those numbers are meaningless, given that people don't have the choice to purchase most hardware without Windows.
<NekoXP> everyone has the choice, GrueMaster just showed a link for it, there was a court precedent allowing users to get a "refund" for the cost of Windows on their device if they didn't actually want it...
<rbasak> infinity: yeah - I hate that the figures get skewed by Windows being mandatory in the purchase price.
<infinity> NekoXP: Have you ever tried to reclaim your Windows license cost?
<NekoXP> that doesn't change that the actual cost to the user for a "Windows license", that sticker on the back of the laptop, and the preinstallation of a partition taking up 10% of your disk space, actually costs the user absolutely nothing
<GrueMaster> NekoXP: yes, but you also forget that Microsoft also manipulates the hardware market to only support Windows.
<NekoXP> infinity, yeah I did it twice
<infinity> NekoXP: I know people who've been in mail-and-phone back-and-forth for well over a year trying to get their silly 50 bucks back.
<GrueMaster> Look at the nVidia Ompimus technology in the latest laptops.
<NekoXP> I got my $50 back twice
<infinity> NekoXP: Well, lucky you.
<GrueMaster> *Optimus
<NekoXP> of course I used the money to update my Technet subscription so I can put Windows on anything I damn well like
<GrueMaster> Look at the real history behind the x86-64 technology.  Look at the history behind the NX bit.  Tell me Microsoft doesn't manipulate the HW market.
<infinity> rbasak: I frankly, just dislike someone getting paid for a product they had nothing to do with (my PC running Linux), full stop.  It's why I don't buy HTC phones either.
<pbuckley> infinity: i guess i know how you feel about software/hardware patents ;)
<GrueMaster> fyi:  I was in Intel processor validation for both of the above technologies.
<GrueMaster> infinity: I have Motorola phones and a Nook color, largely because they are standing up to Microsoft's bullying.
<NekoXP> the way OEM licensing works is MS set a price per device for each copy of whatever MS software is sold with a device. OEM reports back to MS quarterly and says "we sold X devices" and OEM pays MS. What they don't do is tack a microsoft license to the BOM of every device, otherwise that division would be losing out on every device due to the cost of licensing. It gets handled elsewhere and in a different account.
<pbuckley> well it helps that google bought motorola mobile ;)
<GrueMaster> (also because they are just very good products).
<NekoXP> it costs the people making Dells and selling Dells in Dell nothing to ship Windows, or ship nothing
<NekoXP> the same way you can go to a university and show your student ID and get a copy of Windows for free "as long as you use it for schoolwork". This didn't come as a $50 addition to your tuition fee.
<GrueMaster> NekoXP: That same argument holds true to Ubuntu preinstalled Dells, but they are harder to find.
<infinity> NekoXP: It may cost "nothing" on the small scale of a few machines per million, it obviously costs something overall.
<NekoXP> impossible right now, I just tried it :D
<NekoXP> infinity, yes but it's not part of the price you pay for the hardware, they recoup that cost on sales of the hardware with the OS anyway with whatever margins they set to do so.
<infinity> NekoXP: Explaining away volume licensing in a way that makes it seem free is obviously not true.
<pbuckley> mmm koolaid
<infinity> NekoXP: Of course it's part of what I pay.  They don't just manufacture the money out of thin air to pay the license.
<NekoXP> the objection to getting a refund for Windows on a Windows preinstalled laptop from OEMs was that it's basically free, you shouldn't be able to get $50 for something that didn't come in the BOM
<GrueMaster> NekoXP: Did you know that at one point last decade, you couldn't even buy a hard drive without a Windows License attached to it?
<NekoXP> you mean the other way around right
<NekoXP> I remember buying several hard disks to get a copy of Windows
<infinity> NekoXP: It's factored into overall cost of all machines, like an insurance policy.  That doesn't make the cost go away, it just makes it harder to break out without an applied maths degree.
<GrueMaster> No.
<NekoXP> but I've never bought a hard drive and gotten a sticker with a windows key on it
<pbuckley> GrueMaster: now thats not true.. you could buy white box hard drives
<GrueMaster> My local shop was told my their MS rep that for them to have an OEM license, they couldn't just sell blank drives.
<NekoXP> that's the MS sales rep talking out of his arse
<pbuckley> ^^
<GrueMaster> This was back in 2004-2005.
<GrueMaster> Well, that is the kind of tactics they pull.
<NekoXP> and your local shop believed him and added a mysterious $20 to the cost of his drives right?
<NekoXP> he paid his $2 to MS for every drive and bumped the price.. he would have done it to make more money and given you that bullshit excuse :D
<pbuckley> better then apple imo.. at least microsoft trys to work in the ecosystem
<GrueMaster> No, they fought back, but lost their oem status in the process.
<GrueMaster> And the company went bust.
<pbuckley> (Then again i worked at ms, so im still a little brainwashed)
<GrueMaster> The guy that owned that store now only sells cabling.  One of his tech's now owns a shop of his own, but doesn't deal with MS directly.
<GrueMaster> I only speak from personal experience or very direct knowledge of close friends.  This is nothing I read or heard rumors about.
<pbuckley> imo ultimately the problem with microsoft is the nepitism. You get people with big ideas, without much cultural exposure to the industry they are trying to engage in. The typical engineer at ms isn't thinking how can I fuck the average joe. It's more like how can I change the world today. Sometimes it backfires.
<GrueMaster> True.  My best friend from school worked for MS for ~15 years before quiting.  He was so burned out from the experience, he spent a year traveling remote areas of India & Tibet communing with nature.
<pbuckley> sounds about right
<GrueMaster> And, yes, he is still a very close friend.
<NekoXP> you can't blame Windows the OS for racketeering on the part of the sales reps
<NekoXP> or the need for people to actually HAVE Windows "by default".
<pbuckley> you can because its a single organizational unit.. however the sales guys are assholes
<GrueMaster> I don't blame the OS for anything.  I blame the company behind it for strong arming the market.
<NekoXP> I know a lot of sales people, most of them are by profession slimy fuckers
<NekoXP> the company doesn't teach them to be like that.. they're like that because they're in sales
<NekoXP> and sales people, the aggressive ones who make all the commission, are the worst examples of humanity. because they can't code, don't have ideas, and have no other productive use in a technology company
<GrueMaster> Sure.  What ever you want to believe.
<GrueMaster> So I have to ask, are you now a MS fan troll?
<pbuckley> lol
<NekoXP> I use Windows because it does the best job so far on the stuff I need to do, day to day. I have 3 windows boxes in the house and about 19 Linux boxes (and one FreeBSD :)
<NekoXP> not including VMs
<NekoXP> various architectures, distros..
<GrueMaster> The only Windows dedicated box I have does the one thing I need it to do.  Keep my wife happy with her Big Fish games.
<NekoXP> two beagles, a panda, quickstart, mx6 sabrelite, more efikas than I can count, a ppc efika.. MPC8641D and MPC8610
<GrueMaster> And I don't touch it.
<NekoXP> pegasos I G3 and Pegasos II G4
<NekoXP> they all do stuff.
<GrueMaster> I think I out number you in running systems.
<GrueMaster> At home.
<NekoXP> but my preferred text editor is Notepad++, I like WinSCP and PuTTY (actually I use KiTTY), AOL Instant Messenger for Google Talk, I use IE9 now and then, VPN access, Photoshop, Distiller, Fireworks, VMWare, XenCenter, .iTunes...
<NekoXP> maybe
<GrueMaster> Every single thing you list there I can do on my Linux systems (except iTunes, I don't have any i* hw and don't want any).
<NekoXP> I think if I had access to a decent text editor and a GUI SCP client worth a damn I might use Windows less, but I've yet to actually find them
<infinity> So, you personally prefer a bunch of proprietary software.  I'm not seeing how that makes Windows the best tool for everyone's job.
<infinity> (Also, a GUI SCP?  Ick)
<infinity> But plenty of GUI FTP clients do SFTP, which is sane and reasonable.
<NekoXP> because a lot of people prefer a bunch of proprietary software. I don't know any print or layout guys who would love to use Linux because Photoshop and Quark don't run on Linux
<GrueMaster> Yea, what's the point in that?
<NekoXP> GrueMaster, I don't spend my life in the commandline
<infinity> NekoXP: Yes, and they are how much of the market?
<NekoXP> I dunno, one for every editor and layout at every newspaper, 50 per department in every university with a digital print course...
<infinity> (Photoshop was my last holdout too, and then I got out of graphic arts and stopped caring)
<GrueMaster> Apparently, we seem to have comparable tools in Linux.  Piers Anthony is a highly known author that only uses Linux.
<NekoXP> magazines, independent publishers, little print shops like VistaPrint or so, independent print shops who do leaflets for the churchh and posters for gay club parties
<infinity> And, frankly, UNIX systems work better for almost everything ELSE I do.  My Windows machine used to just be Photoshop, a web browser, and a stupid number of terminals to UNIX and Linux systems.
<infinity> So, goodbye middle man.
<pbuckley> photoshop worked fine under wine last time i checked
<GrueMaster> It really boils down to use cases.  Most of the functionality in Photoshop that people use on a regular basis have equivalent tools in Linux now.
<infinity> pbuckley: I gave up trying or caring when I just gave it up entirely and moved on to other projects.  But yes, I hear it works well enough these days.
<NekoXP> you're kidding me. there is no equivalent to photoshop on Linux
<pbuckley> lol
<infinity> GrueMaster: If you're a heavy Photoshop user, it's hard to make that argument.
<pbuckley> NekoXP: yeh there is.. its called photoshop :P
<GrueMaster> I never said equivalent on a feature basis.
<NekoXP> it needs to be equivalent on a feature basis. what you do in photoshop and could do in GIMP is not what most people buy Photoshop for.
<infinity> GrueMaster: I can make that argument for Illustrator versus Inkscape (Inkscape isn't nearly as feature-rich, but it works well, and gets the job done), but taking the GIMP over Photoshop is like punching yourself in the testicles to see if it will motivate you to not punch yourself in the testicles.
<pbuckley> this is a bit funny to me.. i remember the argument for mac os was BUT IT RUNS photoshop
<pbuckley> this is how i know linux is winning
<pbuckley> the same arguments are now being applied to windows
<NekoXP> I seem to remember Adobe almost.. maybe they even did.. make Photoshop run on Linux, but it was a kind of Caldega-like shim
<GrueMaster> http://sixrevisions.com/graphics-design/10-excellent-open-source-and-free-alternatives-to-photoshop/
<pbuckley> http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?appId=17
<pbuckley> there you go NekoXP photoshop in linux
<pbuckley> go delete your windows boxes
<NekoXP> yeah it means installing wine though and wah.. too much hassle
<pbuckley> apt-get install wine
<GrueMaster> But, as infinity pointed out, photoshop fans will probably remain loyal.
<pbuckley> now you can cut and paste
<NekoXP> I swear all they need to do is actually give it a native port and MS could do no wrong by putting a real MS Office on there and use the rest in wine if need be, and the world would be a happier place
<GrueMaster> And if you want shiny gui for wine, get PlaysonLinux.
<pbuckley> ms office runs under wine as well
<pbuckley> though libre office is better then ms office imo
<GrueMaster> yep.
<NekoXP> I have trouble with libreoffice, as good as it is, and it is quite excellent, it has some trouble doing the stuff I do
<pbuckley> NekoXP: then go submit some patches
<NekoXP> every now and then it really mangles a document
<pbuckley> or file a bug report
<NekoXP> or I could use MS Office since I own it
<pbuckley> you could
<pbuckley> though technically with a technet subscription you dont
<NekoXP> I do go back every 6 months to see what changed, I do have LibreOffice installed on Windows..
<pbuckley> the license agreement only covers development use of the product
<pbuckley> production usage of the product is explicitly forbidden under the eula agreement
<NekoXP> no, I do actually have a retail copy of MS Office Home & Student edition
<pbuckley> i didnt say you didnt
<pbuckley> i was just referring to your technet argument earlier
<NekoXP> the technet subscription really is just for putting windows on something to make sure it's not the hw that's broken, or trying something out I saw online like a new graphics driver that did this or that, or benchmarking citrix clients, or whatever
<pbuckley> you should read the eula you are agreeing to before giving anyone money
<pbuckley> it clearly defines the situations and methods the software can be applied
<NekoXP> I use technet for what technet is for :)
<pbuckley> and based on the conversation we have had i question how legitimate your use of the license is
<pbuckley> whats your technet id? ;) i need to send an email to a friend
<NekoXP> as I've used it for the past 14 years since I was part of the world's first rollout of Windows 2000 on a campus-wide scale outside of Microsoft.. it's for testing stuff out
<GrueMaster> Fanboys always like giving their money to corporate charities.
<NekoXP> for the work I do every day I have real retail licenses for everything
<pbuckley> NekoXP: good for you, want a cookie? I was a developer on windows 7 and windows ce
<NekoXP> except Photoshop, actually that is a student edition, but it does say I can use it when I quit university for stuff I do after university
<GrueMaster> Same here.  Its called the GPL (and other open source licenses).
<NekoXP> I would love a cookie
<NekoXP> I think Tiffy left a bunch in my cupboard, she's so forgetful.. *goes to look*
<mythos> so... you use wine within a qemu chroot to run photoshop on a arm-device? :o
<pbuckley> wait that works?
<mythos> maybe
<pbuckley> <<
<pbuckley> >>
 * pbuckley goes and looks
<GrueMaster> mythos: +1
<NekoXP> it might
<pbuckley> http://wiki.qemu.org/Main_Page
<pbuckley> neat
<pbuckley> never heard of qemu before
<NekoXP> qemu x86 emulation on arm really isn't what I'd call "photoshop capable" though
<GrueMaster> Not on an efika at least.
<NekoXP> I was thinking on an omap5 or an MX6
<pbuckley> hrmm
<pbuckley> kvm-ipxe?
<NekoXP> is qemu threaded? can I run an smp qemu?
<pbuckley> bridge utils
<pbuckley> interesting
<pbuckley> so it treats it like a vm?
<pbuckley> i thought virtual machines werent running on armv7's yet
<GrueMaster> Not sure if qemu is threaded, but if the underlying system is UP only, any multitasking os will be slower.
<NekoXP> pbuckley, there are two ways to run it, one like a vm (VirtualBox uses a lot of QEMU code) and one where it emulates the other processor and passes syscalls to the native kernel
<NekoXP> you just register the binary format with binfmt_misc and let the interpreter/vm do the work, like installing java
<infinity> NekoXP: "uses a lot of qemu code"?  You realise VBox is just a friendly GUI wrapper around qemu, right?
<NekoXP> infinity, yes, I was trying to be nice about it :D
<infinity> (For some value of the word "friendly"... VBox just seems to get in the way when I try to use it)
<NekoXP> but anyway, in the same way emulating an arm processor on a 3.2GHz 8-core Xeon with 32MB of L2 gives you the equivalent of a beagleboard with cpufreq on "conservative", just with a fast disk and networking worth a damn, x86 on ARM is... like being in back at school in the very early 90's
<NekoXP> I mean having what amounts to a Pentium 75 is awesome for some things, but I'm fairly sure Photoshop would not be a fun experience. That said, MS Office might actually be fairly usable!
<NekoXP> just stick to Office 200
<NekoXP> 2000
<pbuckley> i used to run photoshop on a pentium 100
<pbuckley> sheesh kids these days are so impatient
<NekoXP> if you can find a copy of Photoshop 5 lying around I'm sure it'd be perfectly usable
 * pbuckley is now convinced nekoxp has been trolling us
<NekoXP> only a tiny bit
<pbuckley> heh
<mythos> hmm... little offtopic... i tried a qemu-arm-vm and the framebuffer has only 1 mb max. videomemory. so the resolution is very limited. is there a workaround for that?
<NekoXP> btw as far as "virtualization" on ARM, you're right, nobody really did proper hypervisor stuff on ARM as the arch doesn't support it in the best way possible, not like you could do on x86 or even m68k.. but it's definitely possible to pull some tricks
<NekoXP> the new A15s have extensions to specifically solve that though and get better performance and security out of it
<NekoXP> I do remember running MacOS on my Amiga though that was some serious, serious fun
<NekoXP> playing with displaylink reminds me of how the graphics driver worked by trapping MMU accesses from the Mac side and using them to sparingly update the screen on the Amiga side. technology really hasn't moved on in the last 20 years.
<pbuckley> anyone have suggestions for extra logging that i can turn on to help trouble shoot why my pandaboards lock up after a couple hours of inactivity?
<pbuckley> its a hard lock.. no kernel panic no log details
<pbuckley> its happening on both of my boards
<GrueMaster> Odd.  I don't see that here on any of my 8 systems.
<GrueMaster> I have an 8G Kingston Class 4 in another test system, and the other two are on a shelf so harder to see.
<GrueMaster> Ah, one is a 4G Sandisk, the other is a 2G (it is running as a buildd with a USB drive for root).
<pbuckley> hrm
<pbuckley> well ill try the transcends anyways since i dont really have much else to go on
<GrueMaster> And I have several SD cards not currently in use.
<pbuckley> plus it gives me an excuse to goto frys
<GrueMaster> I got all of my Transcend cards from Amazon.  The two "Class 10" cards I got from Fry's are my worst performers.
<pbuckley> i guess if i order now i can get them by tomorrow morning
 * pbuckley goes and looks
<pbuckley> speaking of amazon.com there has been a protest outside my office in sf for the last month
<pbuckley> bunch of people wearing pig masks
<pbuckley> a bit creepy
<pbuckley> Get it by Wednesday, Feb 29 if you order in the next 6 minutes and choose one-day shipping.
<pbuckley> 6 minutes?!
<ynezz> hurry up
<pbuckley> wow these transcend cards are cheap
<pbuckley> $10 bucks for an 8gb
<GrueMaster> Wow.  I think I paid $30.
<GrueMaster> A year ago.
<pbuckley> the 32gb are $36
<pbuckley> do you have a model number
<pbuckley> i see a couple different 8gb models
<pbuckley> (all are sdhc 10)
<GrueMaster> Give me a sec.  Systems are running so I can't just yank one out.
<pbuckley> TS8GSDHC10E TS8GSDHC10
<pbuckley> nm i see two
<pbuckley> the other was a class 6 card
<GrueMaster> Ah, there it is.  I ordered TS8GSDHC10E .
<GrueMaster> Hmm.  According to Amazon, I also have 2 of TS8GSDHC10.
<GrueMaster> Nice that I can go back and look at these invoices online.  The other hardware purchases I made over the last few years are hard copy only.
<pbuckley> GrueMaster: cool.. thank you
<pbuckley> ordered myself a pair
<GrueMaster> No problem.
<pbuckley> hopefully its just faulty sd cards
<pbuckley> gets kind of annoying to lose my state so often
<pbuckley> if this doesnt fix it ill have to go back to a x86 desktop :(
<GrueMaster> Yea, that does seem odd.  Although if you really want to do serious work, I recommend using a USB Sata drive for rootfs.
<pbuckley> i am on my desktop
<GrueMaster> You will see much improved speed.
<pbuckley> only thing the sd card is boot
<GrueMaster> Ah.
<GrueMaster> ok
<GrueMaster> And that system still fails?
<pbuckley> yeh
<pbuckley> thought not as frequently as the pure sd one
<GrueMaster> Hmm.  i wonder if it is powering off the usb bus or something.  Might be a glitch in the sleep settings.
<GrueMaster> Still, I think I would have seen that here.
<pbuckley> it only happens when im not using the box
<pbuckley> its never happened while i was logged in
<pbuckley> well
<pbuckley> i mean logged in doing stuff
<pbuckley> but ill come back to it and its completely dead
<GrueMaster> Well, my ES was up all weekend and I never set foot in my office.  It sat idle the whole time.
<pbuckley> keyboard locked/nothing on screen
<pbuckley> no network
<pbuckley> hrmm
<pbuckley> or
<pbuckley> it oculd be the power supply
<GrueMaster> Very odd.  It may be a glitchy board.
<pbuckley> im using a 5v 3.6a supply from radio shack
<pbuckley> both of them?
<GrueMaster> I don't trust RS.
<pbuckley> suppose ill replace that too
<pbuckley> have a model number i can order?
<GrueMaster> My 4-board tower is running off and old 230 watt AT power supply through a relay (to control individual power).
<pbuckley> ooh fancy
<pbuckley> unfortunately a bit of my time alotment for this project
<pbuckley> +out
<pbuckley> this will be my frys excuse
<pbuckley> ill see what 5v 4a type things they have
<GrueMaster> Here is the power supply I have on the rest of the boards:  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?KeyWords=993-1019-ND&site=us&lang=en&WT.z_slp_buy=TI_PandaBoard
<pbuckley> nice thank you
<GrueMaster> The harness for the AT power supply is fairly easy to assemble if you can get the barrel connectors.  Fry's may be hit or miss, but they at least have the HD power cables I used as a sacrificial starting point.
<GrueMaster> I had to do some serious customization as I needed to power the usb drives as well as the pandas, but I also needed one USB port open for the kvm switch and I didn't want to mod my pandas in any way.
<pbuckley> yeh ive been contemplating adding a usb hub
<pbuckley> two ports is a bit rough
<GrueMaster> It is fairy easy to add 2 more ports if you can solder.  One of the expansion connectors can be used to add a 10 pin header, then you can use a standard PC internal USB cable to add ports 3 & 4.
<pbuckley> really?
<pbuckley> there is an a&b
<pbuckley> does that mean i can do 6 usb ports?
<pbuckley> (total)
<GrueMaster> I'm looking for the info.  It is fairly simple, I just chose to not mod mine in any way.
<GrueMaster> No, only 4.
<pbuckley> cool thank you
<GrueMaster> There it is.  http://elinux.org/Panda_How_to_add_2_USBs
<pbuckley> that is easy
<GrueMaster> Yep.  But 4 ports is the max for the built in USB controller.
<pbuckley> and i assume it enumerates just like the other usb ports?
<GrueMaster> Yes.
<GrueMaster> I believe they will show up as ports 1.3 & 1.4 respectively.
<pbuckley> ill add that to list of things to do once i get these boards stable
<pbuckley> the more i think about it.. its far more likely the power supply
<pbuckley> then the sd card
<GrueMaster> I would agree.  If the power supply isn't ramping fast enough on demand, that can be an issue.
<GrueMaster> If you have a USB Y cable (usually for external drives) try running using that on a pc to power one of your pandas.
<GrueMaster> It won't give you a lot of power, so no fs video playback, wifi, etc.  But for booting and sitting at the desktop, it should be fine.
#ubuntu-arm 2012-02-29
<ATP> Hello all it's me the guy with the touchscreen problem :/ Ok i fixed the short circuit from the cable twist. I also soldered the jumpers and now the LCD display works but I only have output. Input does not work at all, should I install some driver? I have kernel 2.6.35 in my ubuntu 10.04 beagle. How do I see if touchscreen drivers are installed? Also should the input show up somewhere in the /dev/input , if not should I make
<ATP>  one myself with mknod command?
<ATP> thanks in advance
<lopi> anyone else trying to snag a raspberry pi in ten minutes? :P
<GrueMaster> Erm, no?  YOu do know that ubuntu will not run on it, right?
<lopi> eh doesn't mean it won't be fun to play with
<steev_> based on the fact that their website sucks and is down already, i doubt anyone will be buying any
<lopi> I seriously doubt that
<gildean> i could see lots of applications for the pi
<gildean> not desktop, but embedded
<steev_> meh, farnell.com is down, and that other one is like register to show your interest
<steev_> i hate sites like that, just stfu and take my money
<lopi> steev_: agreed, they just said on twitter it should be fixed at some point, keep refrsehing
<steev_> lopi: i have better things to do
<steev_> they had their chance
<steev_> like the XO i will not buy one now
<lilstevie> steev_, hah, I plan on getting one after the rush dies down, It is not an apple device, screw joining the queues for it
<steev_> lilstevie: your distributors are a reflection of self, if you choose (admittedly huge) suppliers who can't handle the load, you're not worth my time.  i wasn't particularly interested overall, but i figured i'd load up and see if i could, since neither site would even load, meh
<lilstevie> heh, well to be honest I am shocked about RS
<lilstevie> huge multinational
<lilstevie> can't take a bit of load
<pnphi> joined
<pnphi> excuse me ! ! !
<pnphi> please help me ! ! !
<pnphi> i have a image ubuntu arm Minimal
<pnphi> I want this image up to ubuntu desktop ! ! !
<pnphi> what do i do ?
<pnphi> install 1046 packages ? ?
<pnphi> or what else ?
<infinity> pnphi: What sort of system?
<pnphi> i don't understand ...
<infinity> pnphi: What computer is this on?
<pnphi> Qemu !
<infinity> pnphi: We generate desktop images for several target platforms (beagleboard, pandaboard, etc)
<infinity> Oh.
<pnphi> this image minimal run on qemu...! !
<infinity> If it's qemu, yeah, just "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^" on your current minimal system. :P
<pnphi> what else ?
<infinity> What do you mean what else?
<infinity> That will do it.
<pnphi> other way ?
<infinity> There's no way to install ubuntu-desktop without installing ubuntu-desktop, no.
<pnphi> "install ubuntu-desktop" will install 1046 Packages..so long time
<infinity> Yes, and?
<infinity> If you want the full ubuntu desktop, you need all those packages.
<pnphi> yes
<pnphi> 1046 packages,how multiple packages to a package?
<pnphi> more packed into one package?
<infinity> Packages have dependencies.
<infinity> ubuntu-desktop depends on everything required for a "proper" Ubuntu Desktop environment.
<pnphi> yes
<pnphi> i thinks have a way to convert more packages into one package ! ! !
<pnphi> Can i build 1046 packages in Ubuntu ARM ?
<pnphi> How do i confiruge the Network in qemu which can ping www.google.com ?
<infinity> Read up on qemu bridged networking.
<pnphi> so that can ping ! ! !
<pnphi> can't ping
<pnphi> this will install packages , can't ping
<pnphi> how do i configure ?
<pnphi> help me,how i configure ?
<infinity> Like I said, go read up on qemu bridged networking.
<pnphi> no other way?
<infinity> And please don't demand help from others.  It doesn't tend to make them want to help.
<pnphi> yes thank you so much
<Cesar_cl> I find information on how to handle GPIO on a BeagleBoard-xm
<GrueMaster> Maybe on the beagleboard web site?  or elinux.org?
<Cesar_cl> and look at these sites and found no information
<GrueMaster> ogra_: my ucm configs for pandaES didn't get in.  They are not on the image.  I thought you posted them last week?
<ogra_> hmm, i definitely uploaded them
<GrueMaster> And are we not doing anything with the mx5 image?  I've asked multiple times on #ubuntu-release to have it added to the tracker.
<ogra_> we should test it too
<ogra_> not sure why it didnt end up on the tracker
<ogra_> it is surely in the same area as ac100
<GrueMaster> I already have, and filed a bug for the newer rev board not working, but no where to post results.
<ogra_> well, infinity claimed ownership for signing off mx5 and ac100 ... mx5 is on the manifest with his name next to it now, so it also should be on the tracker
<infinity> ogra_: I only added it to the manifest yesterday, mind you.
<ogra_> err, i added it
<ogra_> do we have it twice now ?
<GrueMaster> I'm debating on failing the image.  It works on older mx5 boards, but not the currently shipping models.
<GrueMaster> Still not in the tracker.
<ogra_> ah, you merged both into one line
<GrueMaster> ogra_: Are you testing (and reporting) on the AC100?
<GrueMaster> infinity: I'm at a quandry with the mx5 start-r rev.  Do I fail the image because of this or not?  I have a bug filed and marked as high (bug 943058).
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 943058 in linux-linaro-lt-mx5 "Kernel doesn't support usb on newer rev quickstart boards." [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/943058
<infinity> GrueMaster: Don't fail the image, it works on most of the hardware out there.
<infinity> GrueMaster: But we really should try to escalate that bug.
<infinity> I'll see what I can do.
<GrueMaster> It rests solely on Linaro.  Interestingly, the SD that came with my original mx5 works fine on the newer board.
<infinity> Yeah, I'm sure it's a regression, not a question of new board support.
<GrueMaster> Well, the shipping image is based on Lucid with a Maverick kernel iirc.  I think it was entirely internal.
<GrueMaster> And in talking to the Linaro guys, they don't have the newer rev boards (they started shipping in December).
<infinity> The image that came with my QuickStart didn't have a kernel that was even remotely Ubuntu-related.
<infinity> 2.6.35.3-744-g27fdf7b
<GrueMaster> Well.  It is 2.6.35 iirc.
<GrueMaster> Yea.
<infinity> Well, that may have some Ubuntu sauce applied, not sure, but it's clearly a Freescale internal build.
<GrueMaster> yes,  never said it wasn't.  But I think I was told before UDS that they had branched off of our tree.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, yes, fine to do it
#ubuntu-arm 2012-03-01
<steev_> GrueMaster: their new kernels *should* be based on the linaro tree (which does branch from ubuntu), whether that is actually true, remains to be seen
<kvarley> Is there a list of ARM boards which Ubuntu will run on anywhere?
<kvarley> nvm got it
<kvarley> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/DeviceSupport
<hrw> guys where I can grab SD images for panda/armhf?
<hrw> fetching http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/alpha-2/precise-preinstalled-server-armhf+omap4.img.gz
<ogra_> hrw, we're at beta1 :) (will release today)
<ogra_> hrw, better zsync the current daily on top of that old alpha2 image
<hrw> ogra_: apt-get dist-upgrade helps
<hrw> ogra_: url?
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled
<GrueMaster> I thought the SheevaPlug was arm v6?  This says it comes with Ubuntu.  http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/03/01/0732247/stealthy-pen-test-unit-plugs-directly-into-110-vac-socket-video
<ogra_> jaunty perhaps ?
<GrueMaster> 2.6.32 kernel
<ogra_> and ?
<GrueMaster> Could be Karmic.
<ogra_> it wouldnt come with any ubuntu kernel anyway
<ogra_> could be jaunty with a 3.0 kernel :P
<ogra_> even
<GrueMaster> Karmic was arm v6 and 2.6.32 kernel on marvel.  Seeing the patch blob we got for their latest system, it looks like their tree encompasses all.
<GrueMaster> Or they could have just pulled recent packages and respun.  Not too terribly difficult.
<ogra_> sure, all i'm saying is that the kernel doesnt say a thing about the rootfs
<ogra_> apparently you can have it in pink though
<ogra_> if you have pink wallplugs
<GrueMaster> Ah, they have an ubuntu-9.04.tar.gz.  Jaunty.
<ogra_> s/plugs/sockets/
<GrueMaster> janimo`: Didn't you have ghc building on armhf earlier?
<damian0815> hey alls, does anyone know a streamlined way to convert a working pandaboard ubuntu install on SDcard to read-only? unionfs/aufs/similar?
<pbuckley> mount -o remount,ro /
<pbuckley> ?
<damian0815> pbuckley thanks but i believe i need to be able to write to config dirs e.g. to start X
<pbuckley> well you should give us a full description of what you want in order for us to give you a useful answer
<damian0815> pbuckley fair enough
<damian0815> i have a working system that boots to X and launches a non-interactive opengl-es app. i want it to mount the root filesystem read-only so i can simply hit the power off and not risk corrupting the filesystem. the goal is maintenance free reliability in a remote location.
<pbuckley> ah.. are these devices going to have network access in the remote locations?
<damian0815> no
<pbuckley> well.. you can do that with partitions on the sd card
<pbuckley> like mount /var tmpfs or something
<pbuckley> put /home somewhere
<pbuckley> then do the mount -o ro /
<damian0815> ok thanks
<pbuckley> (youll get a nice little performance boost dropping your locks/run/logs into ram
<pbuckley> you just need to make sure that you have logrotate or smething to keep the log file sizes limited
<pbuckley> also turn off swap if can.. if that starts hitting the sd card the user experience will be crap
<damian0815> so to be clear:
<damian0815> i should add one or more partitions to the sdcard, and point my ubuntu at a different partition for /var ..
<damian0815> presumably i can leave home on root since nothing will be written there
<pbuckley> x writes out some temp files to the users home dir
<pbuckley> also make sure /tmp ends up being writtable
<damian0815> right right ok
<damian0815> so /var, /home and /tmp need to be writable
<pbuckley> yeh
<damian0815> ok thanks
<pbuckley> np
<GrueMaster> pbuckley: Thanks for that.  I was distracted with post-beta 1 cleanup.
<GrueMaster> btw:  PandaES now has audio support in the Beta 1 image.
<pbuckley> \o/
<pbuckley> so two new weird things
<pbuckley> i was doing a network stress test on my dev board.. after about 20 hours it started dropping consistently about 9% of the packets that went away after a reboot
<pbuckley> trying to reproduce it now
<pbuckley> and i just spaced on the other thing :(
<pbuckley> maybe it was just that my dev board actually made it more then 3 hours
<pbuckley> heh
<GrueMaster> Interesting.  I'll look into an automated network stress test here.  Would be good to have.
 * GrueMaster is always looking for more automated tests.
<ATP> anyone know what time the 12.04 beta comes out exactly? Are arm images being released as well?
<pbuckley> thats a GrueMaster question
<GrueMaster> ATP: Anny minute now.  If you absolutely want it now, go to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/20120301.1/ for desktop, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily-preinstalled/20120228.1/ for server.
<ATP> GrueMaster, you know which is image is best for beagleboard?
<ATP> armhf or omap?
<GrueMaster> They should all be armhf, but omap is the beablebard image.
<GrueMaster> The armel images are just residue that hasn't been scraped out yet.
<ATP> ok so I guess I can wait for the official release of the beta
<ATP> where should I watch for the announcement ? is distrowatch.com fast enough? :P
<GrueMaster> atp, the links I gave you will be the official images.  They are being copied to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/precise/beta-1 now and should be visible shortly.
<damian0815> ... if i just go ahead and make ext2 partitions for /var and /home, is there not a risk of corruption? how do i hook unionfs/aufs into this process? is that desirable in my case?
<GrueMaster> Not sure on the release announcement.  Maybe just ubuntu.com?
<ATP> GrueMaster, ok thank you I download these then
<damian0815> ... and if i just go `mount` it looks like var/run and var/lock are already mounted as tmpfs, tho they are not in fstab . where are these coming from?
<janimo`> GrueMaster, I touched ghc only briefly a year ago. No armhf poking from me
<GrueMaster> damian0815: I think those are mounted in upstart.
<GrueMaster> janimo`: Ok.
<damian0815> k thx. /me googles upstart . just when you think you know enough about Linux there's always something else..
<GrueMaster> Yea, progress can be a funny thing.  Next thing you know, we'll have cell phone cluster computing.  Oh, wait... I already did that.  http://gruemaster.blogspot.com/2011/09/i-survived-sort-of.html
<pbuckley> nice!
<damian0815> heh
<GrueMaster> I did that with 6 pandas.  Now I have 8.  Muahaha!
<damian0815> GrueMaster do you have any issues with temperature control?
<GrueMaster> No, my office is nice and cool at 68F (20C).
<damian0815> so they're not enclosed i'm guessing..
<GrueMaster> All my systems are open air.  Even my Core2Duo test system.
<GrueMaster> I had a small heat sink on my PandaES, but it hasn't felt warm since 12.04 Alpha 1.
<GrueMaster> No heat sinks on other arm systems.
<GrueMaster> here is what one of my panda towers looks like.  http://members.dsl-only.net/~tdavis/Panda-rack.jpg
<damian0815> so this guy is trying to achieve a similar thing (read-write sandbox on top of read-only known good base), the second post is a script that is supposed to mount / readonly then make a union with an rw tmpfs using aufs: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5422268
<damian0815> only thing is it's from 2006. look like it would still work?
<damian0815> (i'm running ubuntu 10.10)
<GrueMaster> First, dare I ask why 10.10?
<damian0815> heh
<damian0815> only way it seems i can do opengl-es at 1920x1080 with working hardware acceleration
<damian0815> (3 weeks of pain in that sentence)
<GrueMaster> Hrm.  I thought we had support in 11.10 (a little late, but there).
<damian0815> i didn't try 11.10
<damian0815> once i got it working.. no more upgradey
<GrueMaster> Ah.  Well just understand that 10.10 was an initial release for panda, and it will be going away after April (18 month support).
<dipper> hi all, small question I am asking around
<dipper> trying to install eclipse on linaro omap4 images
<dipper> pandaboard
<dipper> it fails with the following messages
<dipper> http://pastebin.pandaboard.org/index.php/view/95457828
<dipper> any ideas ?
 * GrueMaster is checking
<GrueMaster> dipper: Well, it works fine on my ubuntu precise images, but I don't test Linaro.
<GrueMaster> They may have broken dependencies in ppa's or something.
<dipper> is there a workaround ?
<dipper> not through apt-get
<dipper> GrueMaster: where can I get desktop images for pandaboard ?
<GrueMaster> Like I said, I don't know.  I did "apt-get update && apt-get install eclipse, and it gave me a ton of packages.
<dipper> i see
<dipper> I was advised linaro for pandaboard
<dipper> I am open to switch to something else
<dipper> if there is anything
<GrueMaster> We are just releasing beta 1 soon.  Check http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/.  It should show up soon.
<damian0815> ok looks like i have a working ro /
<damian0815> thanks for the help everyone
<j_ack> hey yall. What is the best sd or mmc-card for a pandaboard?
<GrueMaster> j_ack: Something Class 10 and 4G or better.
<j_ack> GrueMaster, thank you
* GrueMaster changed the topic of #ubuntu-arm to: Ubuntu ARMv7 Discussion & Development | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM | Submit a Bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug | Get Precise beta 1 while it's hot! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/precise/beta-1/ Includes armhf images! | Logs at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<int_ua> I have a question about jasper-initramfs. Anyone familiar with it present?
<GrueMaster> int_ua: What's up?
<int_ua> GrueMaster: Why is jasper-initramfs is built only for i386?
<GrueMaster> It is a shell script.  It should be arch-all.
<int_ua> It never run on my N900, but I don't remember if it boots at all with standard preinstalled image, I'm using a script to configure it
<pbuckley> huh?
<int_ua> GrueMaster: the package is _all
<GrueMaster> It is used in our preinstalled images.
<int_ua> GrueMaster: But it's not in the repos
<pbuckley> yeh i know.. just having trouble parsing what he's saying
<GrueMaster> It's main purpose is to grow the rootfs on the sd card and other first-boot initialization.
<GrueMaster> And it is in the repos.
<int_ua> GrueMaster: but it's not present in the recent Precise OMAP3 image, is it?
<int_ua> GrueMaster: strange, I can't see it
<GrueMaster> yes, otherwise the image wouldn't boot.
<GrueMaster> It is in the initrd.  Once it runs, it rebuilds the initrd and removes itsself.
<GrueMaster> Well, wouldn't boot properly.
<int_ua> GrueMaster: I'm puzzled. You mean it will never boot completely. It must boot into initramfs. Or it's not booting?
<GrueMaster> If it doesn't run, the root filesystem won't have enough room to do anything.
<GrueMaster> And it is jasper in the repo.
<GrueMaster> jasper-initramfs is the source repo.
<int_ua> GrueMaster: Ok, got it. Another question: what should I do if the image doesn't boot at all? My hardware is Nokia N900.
<GrueMaster> (when it was developed, the creator didn't know about the jasper jpeg libraries).
<GrueMaster> We don't support that system directly.  But if you have a kernel and bootloaders, you theoretically can make it work by dropping them in the boot partition.
<GrueMaster> rbelem has experience with this system if he's around.
<GrueMaster> also rsalveti.
<rsalveti> I think we used to have a wiki page with instructions on how to use ubuntu on n900 at wiki.ubuntu.com
<rsalveti> but in theory it should work fine
<rsalveti> just need to grab a valid kernel, and have the rootfs available at an external sd card
<GrueMaster> rsalveti: Same kernel & bootloader as omap?
<int_ua> Thanks :) I think I've talked with them on #kubuntu-mobile last year. The problem is that the only kernel that boots is 2.6.35 compiled by apachelogger et al (AFAIK) and it doesn't boot any other kernel.
<GrueMaster> (beagle I should say).
<rsalveti> for that I don't know, n900 is usually broken upstream
<rsalveti> I remember the best kernel we had available was from the mer project
<GrueMaster> ah.
<int_ua> rsalveti: is it possible to watch kernel log from USB on N900?
<rsalveti> int_ua: just once you booted it completely, if you want to have the logs guess the best way would have it displayed at the n900 screen
<int_ua> and when kernels refuse to boot silently?...
<rsalveti> then just serial to help you knowing what is happening
<int_ua> rsalveti, GrueMaster: How do you think, should I add a link to my script ( https://code.launchpad.net/~xintx-ua/ubuntu-n900/ubuntu-n900-installer ) to wiki?
<GrueMaster> int_ua: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP  Will this work?
<GrueMaster> (under Community Development)
<int_ua> No, I'm talking about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/n900
<int_ua> it's not about OMAP, it is specifically for N900
<GrueMaster> Oh.  Forgot that still exited.
<int_ua> GrueMaster: can you please rephrase, I didn't get it? :)
<GrueMaster> I forgot that wiki page was there.  It isn't linked in wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM
<GrueMaster> And the Kubuntu-mobile project is no longer maintained afaik.  I think they merged into kubuntu-active.
<int_ua> But there is not kubuntu-active for arm, is it? Is it temporary?
<int_ua> s/not/no/
<GrueMaster> It is still in its infancy.  This (Beta 1) was the first release and only i386.
<GrueMaster> Not sure if/when images for it will be built on arm.  Packages are there.
<int_ua> leaving now. Thanks for your help, GrueMaster and rsalveti :)
#ubuntu-arm 2012-03-02
<axisys> how do I cross compile ? I need a realtek usb ethernet driver for my android tablet
<axisys> my laptop is ubuntu 11.10 x86 64bit
<twb> axisys: http://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation
<twb> Strict that is not cross-compiling, that is using native compilation + a CPU emulator
<twb> IME it is simple and reliable and it doesn't involve recompiling the compiler itself, so nice and handy until the migration to multiarch is complete and we can simply install everything directly via apt.
<axisys> twb: so this should let me compile a realtek usb ethernet driver rtl8150.ko for armv7l if I have the source code of realtek driver ?
<twb> That all depends
<twb> Of course, drivers are almost always included with your stock kernel
<axisys> if I plug that usb ethernet adapter to my ubuntu laptop I get this http://pastebin.com/rcHjQMRE
<axisys> so I guess linux has the source code for it
<twb> Yes, at least for that specific model and for that kernel
<twb> If you are running an older or wackier kernel on your arm you may not have it
<axisys> Linux localhost 2.6.36.3-00020-g3d351b6 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Oct 19 10:52:26 JST 2011 armv7l GNU/Linux
<axisys> thats my android tablet toshiba thrive
<axisys> running android 3.2.1
<twb> It doesn't matter what android is running; it matters what ubuntu will be running on the arm device
<axisys> i was planning to compile the kernel module and force install
<twb> I have no idea what android will do in response to that; I don't support android
<GrueMaster> aceat64: Sorry, I was out with the famn, damily.  How can I help?
<axisys> twb: found the source code I was looking for
<axisys> twb: http://pegasus2.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pegasus2/rtl8150/
<axisys> twb: now I need to follow your direction to try to cross compile it
<micahg> has anyone started looking at the ghc failure on armhf, I'm about to kick off a test build for it
<janimo`> micahg, I can take a look later today or Monday unless someone else has already been on it
<janimo`> micahg, btw I got chromium to build on armhf, just need to formulate the patch so as it is not messy. gyp/scons only
<micahg> janimo`: I kicked off a test build with -mfloat-abi=hard to see if it helps
<micahg> janimo`: sounds great, thanks
<janimo`> micahg, ok. Although I wonder why mfloat-abi=hard is not the default. Should it not be on armhf?
<janimo`> or is ghc overriding gcc flags when calling it?
<micahg> ooh, unrecognized compile flag, that would explain it :)
<micahg> janimo`: did I do it wrong? pastebin.ubuntu.com/864862/
<janimo`> micahg, well that is a gcc flag, ghc uses different ones.
<janimo`> but it may have some means to tell it to pass cflags to the gcc step for the generated C code
<janimo`> micahg, well I'll download ghc and give it a run on the panda, see how it fails :)
<micahg> janimo`: there's a build log alreayd
<janimo`> The logs suggest some objects were built correctly
<micahg> ah, you saw it
<janimo`> micahg, well see how it fails  + debug :)
<janimo`> where did the patches for armhf come from? Debian?
<micahg> janimo`: probably, laney in #ubuntu-motu can help with pushing fixes back there as well
<janimo`> micahg, ok. I'll have the ftbfs reproduces on my panda hopefully in 3 hours and then I'll try poking at it
<micahg> thanks
<janimo`> poor panda, this past week it only had to deal with large package builds - libo, chromium, mongodb now ghc :)
<janimo`> al with their funky build systems
 * Laney phases in
<int_ua> I have a question about uImage creation with mkimage. How should I select load address and entry point? I've seen 0x80008000 and 0x30008000 in different sources, but they all are hardcoded. Shoudn't it be platform-dependent?
<Riddell> GrueMaster: local electronics shop does not stock double USB-Y cables
<Riddell> GrueMaster: would a 5V USB hub do instead?
<xranby> Riddell: i use a 5V usb hub and it solved all my panda instability problems
<xranby> i have a usb harddrive attached to the hub
<Riddell> xranby: oh cool, so it can handle a USB keyboard & mouse easily then
<Riddell> xranby: and DVI monitor ok?
<xranby> yes DVI monitor ok here
<xranby> i attach keyboard and mouse to the hub as well
<xranby> running opengl-es tests and some quite heavy builds on it
<Riddell> xranby: and I need an ethernet cable for networking I expect?
<xranby> yes
<Riddell> groovy thanks
<xranby> Riddell: to power the panda itself i use a 5v 4A adaptor
<Riddell> xranby: oh
<Riddell> well that's different then
<xranby> so i have two poer adaptors 1 to the usb hub and one to the panda
<xranby> power adaptors
<Riddell> hum
<Riddell> oh well I'll just buy a usb hub and see if it works
<xranby> Riddell: i am sure it will it all depends on how good powersupply the hub got
<int_ua> Anyone familiar with U-Boot and uImage?
<rsalveti> ndec: was dropped from the call, but I think we're done already
<ogra_> yeap, he thought someone joined :)
<ogra_> (you beeped when dropping)
<GrueMaster> Riddell: The problem with using a usb hub to power your panda is going to be the same.  A single usb port will not give you enough power (hence the need for a Y cable).
<Riddell> GrueMaster: damn, they don't sell Y cables
<Riddell> GrueMaster: it has a green light turned on, is there a way I can check it works?
<GrueMaster> Not without at least a serial cable or monitor.  The green light is a power indicator.  Just like any pc, you need some sort of console.
<Riddell> I have a monitor now
<Riddell> will it have enough ampage for a DVI monitor?
<GrueMaster> HDMI or DVI?
<Riddell> DVI
<GrueMaster> Do you have an HDMI to DVI cable?
<Riddell> yes
<GrueMaster> Ok.  Without a usb-Y cable or 5v power supply, you still won't get far.  The board draws ~1.2 amps on boot, which is more than a single usb cable can provide.
<GrueMaster> If you have a cell phone charger with mini usb and >1amp out, that will also work.
<Riddell> GrueMaster: really I need one of these? http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=993-1019-ND&x=14&y=17
<GrueMaster> That would be optimal.
<GrueMaster> Try checking with someone in the UK office.  They may have one at Millbank.
<GrueMaster> If you can't get one before UDS, let me know.  I will bring you one then.
<Riddell> that won't help with testing beta 2 :)
<rbasak> Riddell: you're in the UK? What do you need? Just a panda power supply?
<Riddell> rbasak: yes
<Riddell> rbasak: know where I can get such an item?
<rbasak> Riddell: how soon do you need one? I got mine off eBay, I can find you a link
<Riddell> rbasak: toot sweet
<ogra_> Riddell, heard of that thing called ebay ?
<ogra_> if you order a proper power supply now, you should have it before B2
 * GrueMaster is also checking amazon.co.uk for Riddell.
<ogra_> (thats seriously better than poking around half breeded solutions with Y cables and USB hubs)
<Riddell> ogra_: there are 1295 different power supply types, how will I know I'm getting the right one?
<Riddell> the electronics shop tried every one in stock and none fitted
<Riddell> ogra_, GrueMaster: I put in an SD card with an image and pressed a button and now I have two green LEDs on, is that a good sign?
<ogra_> one should start blinking ... but in any case, give up on the USB idea
<GrueMaster> yes, that means it is booting and resizing.  Not sure how far you will get w/o full power though.
<ogra_> unless you want to test any headless images
<ogra_> you will definitely hit stability issues and wont be able to tell if its a SW prob or caused by a bug
<Riddell> right
<ogra_> Riddell, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?KeyWords=993-1019-ND&site=us&lang=en&WT.z_slp_buy=TI_PandaBoard
<ogra_> thats the recommended power supply
<ogra_> http://www.applegate.co.uk/listings/stock/rs-components-ltd/power-supply-desk-top/PSAC30U-050-4482.html is  a UK supplier
<Riddell> so it's RS
<Riddell> I heard their website is down because of something to do with raspberries
<GrueMaster> I clicked and it came up.  Try the link.
<Riddell> Â£25 for a power supply!
<ogra_> http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wgate/zcop_uk/~flN0YXRlPTM2MjUyMTE5MDI=?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&glb_user_js=Y&shop=UK&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=&product_show_id=512922&gvlon=&p_init_ipc=X&p_page_to_display=fromoutside&~cookies=1&gclid=&cookie_n[1]=uk_insert&cookie_v[1]=89&cookie_d[1]=&cookie_p[1]=%2f&cookie_e[1]=Tue%2c+03-Apr-2012+16%3a30%3a08+GMT&scrwidth=1024
<ogra_> there is another one
<ogra_> well, you use a developer board ...
<ogra_> here is one for under twenty http://www1.conrad-uk.com/scripts/wgate/zcop_uk/~flN0YXRlPTM2MjUyMTE5MDI=?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&glb_user_js=Y&shop=UK&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=&product_show_id=512922&gvlon=&p_init_ipc=X&p_page_to_display=fromoutside&~cookies=1&gclid=&cookie_n[1]=uk_insert&cookie_v[1]=89&cookie_d[1]=&cookie_p[1]=%2f&cookie_e[1]=Tue%2c+03-Apr-2012+16%3a30%3a08+GMT&scrwidth=1024
<Riddell> nah I trust RS more
<ogra_> alternatively just get a universal 5V/3-4A one with plug adapters included
<ogra_> that should be below 15
<ogra_> (GBP)
<Riddell> ogra_: yeah except the plug adapters don't fit it the ones in my local shop are anything to go by
<Riddell> anyway ordered that one
<Riddell> I'll be back with more questions next week :)
<ogra_> good
<Riddell> ogra, GrueMaster!
<ogra_> yes ?
<Riddell> I go back into the other room with the panda board in and it's booted and showing on the monitor!
<GrueMaster> Riddell: !
<GrueMaster> Yea.
<ogra_> nice ... still, i wouldnt count on stability with that power setup
<Riddell> yeah, ordered anyway
<Riddell> ogra, GrueMaster: so this thing boots into ubiquity and you have to install it before you can do anything?
<ogra_> it boots into oem-config
<ogra_> you need to set up a user, TZ, language, kbd etc
<Riddell> right, same thing kindae
<ogra_> not really
<ogra_> everything is installed
<ogra_> its just the user cration and initial configuration .... no partitioning, no package installation
<Riddell> sure I know
<Riddell> this thing is a bit slow :)
<ogra_> nope
<ogra_> the "thing" is fast ... the SD card isnt ;)
<ogra_> the CPU/RAM isnt slower than an intel ATOM ... but you run off an SD car with max 16-17M/s throughput
<Riddell> oh really?  would attaching a solid state hard disk by usb be faster?
<ogra_> that should get you around 24-25M/s
<ogra_> so yes, its a bit faster ... but its still just USB ...
<ogra_> the panda sadly doesnt have a real disk controller, thats the limiting factor
<rbasak> Riddell: sorry, the exact item I got from eBay is no longer available
<rbasak> Riddell: I can tell you the maplin code for the DC connector if you like
<rbasak> Riddell: if you fancy hooking one up yourself
<Riddell> rbasak: I got one from RS
<Riddell> thanks for looking
<rbasak> np
<Neko> which mmc host does omap3/4 use?
<GrueMaster> Riddell: If you plan on doing development work, I suggest getting an external USB drive and an extra SD (an old 128M or greater is sufficient).  Then you can put netboot in the SD and install to the usb directly.  For image testing, a 4G SD is sufficient (class 10 highly recommended).
<GrueMaster> Having 1 SD to boot to USB & 1 for image testing is ideal.
<Neko> I couldn't find any info but I hope omap5 has an sdxc controller
<Riddell> GrueMaster: so netboot on Sd card then install over ethernet to the USB solid state hard disk?
<Neko> like a decent one with ddr support and a bus speed to match so you can get those 45MB/s UHS cards to work
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> that gives you a faster system
<GrueMaster> Yes.  You should have sufficiently better bandwidth to ports.ubuntu.com than I do, so it should be fairly quick.
<ogra_> for testing the kubuntu images you still want to use the 4G SD you have in use now
<Neko> Riddell, at the point you're using USB you don't really need to be solid state on the hard disk, just get a cheap rotating hard drive
 * ogra_ points Neko to #pandaboard with his questions
<Neko> you think they'd know the down dirty details of the omap5 sdxc controller?
<Neko> worth a try I guess
<ogra_> well, there are many TI employees that work on designing the board
<ogra_> not sure they will disclose any such info before the board is out though
<GrueMaster> Is omap5 even out yet?
<ogra_> nope
<Neko> no but it should be RTM by now according to their schedule, and in devices by the end of the year
<Neko> same as we've got MX6 months ago, someone has to have an OMAP5 on their desk
<Neko> it doesn't matter so much as it definitely has SATA anyway, but... you know :D
<Riddell> I think my pandaboard only boots up with no mouse/keyboard plugged in
<Riddell> that explains why it didn't boot when I was watching it
<ogra_> yeah, mouse and kbd likey draw more power ...
<GrueMaster> Riddell: Exactly.  not enough power.
<ogra_> and you are on the edge
<smplman> does anyone know if 1ghz is supported in the kernel yet on a beaglebaord xm?
<rcn-ee> not in mainline, still quite a few patches needed to make it stable. Not even sure who at TI is even tasked for the smartreflex 1.5 stuff..
<shra1> i am trying ubuntu on pandaboard and the screen blanks after 10 mins? how to disable screen blank
<shra1> however if i connect to that pandaboard thru ssh once, then the screen does not blank
<GrueMaster> I believe there is an xset setting for that.  It should be the same as on any desktop/server in x86.  Try googling for the setting (I don't know off the top of my head).
#ubuntu-arm 2012-03-03
<axisys> http://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation <-- it points to http://www.emdebian.org/debian/pool/cross-unstable/g/glibc/libc6-dev-arm-cross_2.3.6.ds1-6_all.deb
<axisys> but that does not exist
<GrueMaster> axisys: That seems like a question for the debian channels.
<axisys> GrueMaster: was replying to twb's comment from yesterday.. i guess he left
<axisys> GrueMaster: trying to find out how to cross compile a kernel module for armv7l.. host is ubuntu on x86
<GrueMaster> Oh, I'm actually doing the same.  Here is the instructions:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel
<axisys> GrueMaster: :-)
<axisys> how do I know if it is armel or armhf ? dont know the difference
<Neko> axisys, http://www.emdebian.org/debian/pool/main/g/glibc/
<Neko> they moved it. the debian wiki is out of date, feel free to update.
<axisys> Neko: i dont use debian
<Neko> you're on ubuntu?
<axisys> Neko: my laptop is ubuntu 11.10 x86 64bit
<axisys> twb suggested to read that.. hence my query
<GrueMaster> axisys: What are you trying to build?
<Neko> oh.. ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi-
<Neko> to make. it'll work.
<Neko> you really don't need much else than those two
<axisys> i want to build a rtl8150.ko for android tablet
<axisys> usb ethernet driver
<Neko> just the driver on it's own?
<axisys> Neko: i need to get the cross compiler
<Neko> it's part of the kernel since forever so you're better off building the whole kernel from scratch
<axisys> Neko: kernel module .. yes
<axisys> Neko: right
<axisys> Neko: but never done it
<axisys> Neko: cyanogenmod's wiki is not working for me
<Neko> never compiled a kernel or never cross compiled a kernel?
<axisys> neither
<axisys> well did a little bit today with a cross compiler from codesourcery.com ?
<axisys> i think that is the url.. forgot
<axisys> in the past did build an alpha kernel.. but still very limited experience..
<Neko> them's the guys, but you should be able to use the arm cross compilers in the standard ubuntu repos
<axisys> have been using unix for 10+ yrs.. but now like to dive into lower layer
<Neko> just apt-get install gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi binutils-multiarch
<Neko> don't kick me if that doesn't install anything, I'm remembering those from last time I had to install them :D
<Neko> you'll probably also need u-boot-tools or u-boot-mkimage or whatever they call it now
<axisys> Neko: was looking at GrueMaster's url
<Neko> you're not building an ubuntu kernel though
<axisys> Neko: no
<Neko> so half of that doesn't make any sense for you
<axisys> i think i need a good cross compiler.. i got all the CM kernel
<axisys> but now need to build the kernel and then push the driver over
<axisys> here is my android
<axisys> Linux localhost 2.6.36.3-00020-g3d351b6 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Oct 19 10:52:26 JST 2011 armv7l GNU/Linux
<Neko> okay you probably best to get the config from the kernel on the android device, I dunno how you're going to get that off though, find the exact source used to build it, and then just cp myandroidconfig /my/linux/source/.config and then "make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-none-linux-gnueabi- menuconfig"
<Neko> hit / and then type rtl8150 and find the menu it's in, go there, enable it as a module, et voila
<axisys> i got the kernel
<Neko> make ARCH=arm CROSS_COMPILE=arm-none-linux-gnueabi- uImage
<GrueMaster> You should be able to make the module out of tree.  Just add "export CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi-" to the process of making an out-of-tree module.
<Neko> that's assuming it boots off a uImage
<axisys> ok so first thing first.. what do I run to get the arm cross compiler?
<Neko> you said you already have it
<axisys> i have the kernel
<Neko> I'm gonna leave you to it, I have a ton of work to do
<Neko> you said you got a compiler from codesourcery.com
<Neko> so you're set up and ready to go
<axisys> the cross compiler i used was from there ^ .. but did not build any module
<Neko> .. did you make modules?
<Neko> and use the original config and update it?
<Neko> no wait I said I was gonna leave you to it. sorry, bye :D
<axisys> http://paste.ubuntu.com/865728/ <- this is what I ran so far
<GrueMaster> axisys: I personally don't want to sound like an ass, but I really don't know how to help on this.  This is more of an android question than an ubuntu-arm question.
<axisys> well.. do I need to run make modules after make ?
<GrueMaster> There is a way to just make the one module you need.  let me look.
<GrueMaster> http://hex.ro/wp/blog/compile-an-android-kernel-module-outside-the-kernel-source-tree/ will give you some ideas.  But you should be able to build that module by itsself.
<axisys> GrueMaster: thanks
<GrueMaster> Here's a google search that helps.  "kernel module build android".
<GrueMaster> Tons of returns.
<axisys> :-) .. wow you did not give me the lmgtfy .. lol
<axisys> GrueMaster: thank you for your help
<GrueMaster> This one in particular might be more helpful.  http://omappedia.org/wiki/Building_Android_Kernel
<GrueMaster> Thant's not how I roll.  :P
<axisys> GrueMaster: i was using the first link from that search.. let me bug those guys more
<axisys> i think i am very close
<GrueMaster> Let me know if it works for you.
<axisys> GrueMaster: sure
<GrueMaster> HA!  Fixed my audio (bug 925094) and my network (bug 838200) on my beaglexm.  Now to get the kernel team to accept them.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 925094 in linux "No audio on omap (beagleXM) system" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925094
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 838200 in u-boot-linaro "No network support on Beagle XM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/838200
<James_KL> hello , installing ubuntu on arm , gives that error x86_64 : http://bitsy.me/img4dy - WTF?
<juno> hello
<juno> I have been an ubuntu user for ages and now have some spare time and would like to contribute, specially interested in ARM issues
<juno> have been cherry picking ftbfs bugs on armhf, any ideas about how to contribute best to the upcoming release?
<steev_> juno: silly question, but how do you go about finding the ftbfs bugs on armhf?  i suck at launchpad
<infinity> steev_: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20120201-precise.html
<infinity> steev_: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/
<steev_> oh spiffy, i like wgrant, he's good people
<infinity> steev_: Between those two pages, there should be enough FTBFS and bug references to keep anyone busy.
<infinity> steev_: The first is a summary of the last rebuild test, the second is the state of the current archive.
<steev_> yeah i've been playing with precise armhf on my efika for a while now, it's decent enough (there are some minor issues with opengl es that i haven't tracked down)
<juno> steev_: I have been using this page, which is a subset of the page mentioned by infinity, only showing armel and armhf FTBFS: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/primary-precise-armhf.html
<wgrant> juno: Hm, I actually meant to delete that one when I added armhf to the main one. But if it's still useful, I'll keep it :)
<steev_> wgrant: i like it, i can focus on the arch i care about ;)
<juno> wgrant: agree with steev_, it allows to focus on the arch
<juno> by the way, I read a lot in this channel about setting up a pandaboard with usb disk, but not so much about NFS
<juno> is there any reason why I should not use a root-NFS mount setup? I love the control this gives me to try different rootfs easily
<mythos> i use it all the time
<mythos> so... no, there is not really a reason not to do it
<mythos> in fact, i love it to restore the root with a simple tar xzf -C
#ubuntu-arm 2012-03-04
<anuvrat> hi I am trying to get stuff running on FriendlyARM Tiny 6410. My aim is to get a usb bluetooth dongle and usb wireless dongle running on it
<anuvrat> currently it il running the default version of linux that came with it, should I try and install ubuntu on it (if yes, how the guide asks me to run an exe, and I dont have Wndows)
<anuvrat> Will I have to hunt for drivers, can somebody help?
<tmax> Hello anyone here ?
<tmax> I ma having a problem installing Ubuntu on PandaBoard
<tmax> First time it boot it resizes partition, but then instead of start installer it keeps rebooting forever
<robclark> fwiw, tmax was having an issue w/ installer: http://pastebin.pandaboard.org/index.php/view/77105354
 * robclark thought perhaps someone here would have a better idea what is going on
<tmax> robclark helped because i was getting through RS232 an error about kernel could not find uEnv.txt so i created it
<tmax> and put it inside: initrd_high=0xffffffff fdt_high=0xffffffff bootcmd=fatload mmc 0:1 0x80200000 uImage; fatload mmc 0:1 0x81600000 uInitrd; bootm 0x80200000 0x81600000 bootargs=console=tty0 console=ttyO2,115200n8 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait ro text earlyprintk fixrtc nocompcache loglevel=10 ip=dhcp uenvcmd=boot
<tmax> anyone ?
<tmax> hello ?? :/
<rsalveti> that usually happens when something went wrong during the resize
<rsalveti> when regenerating the initramfs probably
<rsalveti> one thing you can do is to flash the image again, mount it at your host, edit the boot args and enable the console output
<rsalveti> if you have access to your serial
<rsalveti> then you'll get all the details about the installer and what is happening
<tmax> yeah i can see everything from my PC trough console
<tmax> i have reinstalled the image about 4 times
<tmax> ok i have reinstalled the image again in my SD card
<tmax> what should i change before put it into PandaBoard ?
<tmax> when i put the img inside SD card it doesnt create uEnv.txt is that normal ?
<rsalveti> I believe it's still using the boot.src file
<tmax> ok should i try booting again ?
<rsalveti> that's before the first boot (before resize) as it seems the resize not working properly for you
<rsalveti> or if you just want to understand why it's rebooting
<rsalveti> you can also change it to see what are the logs
<tmax> yes i want to understand too i want to learn :D
<tmax> but what i have to change ?
<rsalveti> adding console=ttyO2,115200, remove quite and replace splash with nosplash
<rsalveti> *quiet
<tmax> so i have to create uEnv.txt again ?
<rsalveti> dd if=boot.scr of=boot.script bs=1 skip=72
<rsalveti> edit boot.script
<rsalveti> mkimage -A arm -T script -C none -n "Ubuntu boot script" -d boot.txt boot.scr
<rsalveti> if it's not yet using uEnv.txt
<rsalveti> yeah, still using boot.scr
<tmax> yeah it says it couldnt find uEnv.txt so it uses boot.scr
<tmax> mmm i dont have boot.script in FAT32 partition
<rsalveti> that's why you have to run the dd command first
<rsalveti> it'll remove the header and create the boot.script file
<rsalveti> so you can properly open it with any editor
<tmax> ok wait, so i have to put it in PandaBoard and let it resize first ?
<tmax> i apologise i am pretty new at this and i am lerning
<rsalveti> if you want the messages since first boot, no, you just need to add the sdcard at your host, mount first partition, generate the boot.script file, edit, and create a new boot.scr file again with mkimage
<tmax> ok i have mounted the first FAT32 partition on my PC
<tmax> now i have to create boot.script and what i have to put inside ?
<rsalveti> there will be a line similar as "        setenv bootargs ro elevator=noop vram=32M mem=456M@0x80000000 mem=512M@0xA0000000 root=UUID=9d4de70e-1323-4ac9-9d3f-4ae05139f7ff fixrtc quiet splash"
<rsalveti> edit this line, removing quiet and splash, and add "console=ttyO2,115200 nosplash loglevel=8"
<rsalveti> then run mkimage as I said before
<rsalveti> mkimage -A arm -T script -C none -n "Ubuntu boot script" -d boot.sript boot.scr
<rsalveti> umount it and boot the card at your pandaboard
<tmax> i am getting this mkimage: Can't read boot.script: Invalid argument
<tmax> andres-nt@andres-nt:/tmp/mmc$ sudo mkimage -A arm -T script -C none -n "Ubuntu boot script" -d boot.script boot.scr
<tmax> thats what i put
<tmax> i have FAT32 mounted in /tmp/mmc
<tmax> and when i edit boot.scr gedit warns me about it can corrupt the file if i save it because there are strange caracters
<rsalveti> you first need to generate the boot.script file with dd
<tmax> when i save it the file becomes strange it is filled whit 0
<rsalveti> run: dd if=boot.scr of=boot.script bs=1 skip=72
<rsalveti> then you'll have the boot.script file to be edited and used by mkimage
<tmax> ok, but is normal what gedit tells me ?
<tmax> because i can see file is corrupted when i save it whit gedit
<rsalveti> yes, because you tried to edit the boot.scr file instead of boot.script
<rsalveti> the boot.scr file has a special header for u-boot
<rsalveti> that's why you need to run the dd command, that will just remove the header and create a text file called boot.script
<rsalveti> mkimage will  then turn this file into a boot.scr, adding the header again
<rsalveti> to be valid by u-boot
<tmax> hooo and i have to edit the arguments from boot.script not boot.scr right ?
<rsalveti> yup
<tmax> hooo i am starting to understand :D
<tmax> ok now it worked :)
<tmax> now try booting Panda ?
<tmax> i have to have ethernet ?? it says waiting for ethernet connection
<tmax> http://pastebin.pandaboard.org/index.php/view/44520241
<tmax> thats whatt i have it doesnt looks good :/
<tmax> it says image is corrupt
<tmax> i reboot PandaBoard and now i get it
<tmax> http://pastebin.pandaboard.org/index.php/view/4026588
<tmax> rsalveti ?
<tmax> are u there ?
<tmax> anyone ??
<tmax> somebody online ?
#ubuntu-arm 2013-02-25
<anish[1]> anyone tried compiling raspberry pi kernel using ubuntu10.10?
<xnox> ogra_: do you have a bug # handy of the "can't type in the fields in oem-config but works elsewhere"
<topi`> quick q: i'm considering getting a samsung chromebook and installing raring on it. do the chromeOS suspend/resume bugs affect ubuntu as well?
<ogra_> xnox, heh, funny coincidence ...
<ogra_> xnox, watch your bugmail. i just duplicated one to the master bug
<ogra_> bug 1093050
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1093050 in ubuntu-nexus7 "compiz dies during oem-config and steals the focus so that input fields are unusable" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1093050
<ogra_> i thought i made the description clear enough, but just searched my butt off to find it again ...
<xnox> ogra_: thanks, i was pinged about the one you marked as duplicate on #ubuntu-quality ;-)
<ogra_> heh
<marvin24> is the omap u-boot device tree the same as the kernel one?
<marvin24> I wonder how to pass the device tree to u-boot on tegra
<ogra_> ppisati, ^^^
<marvin24> btw, it's maybe not a clever choice to put device tree outside of /boot if you want to load it
<ppisati> marvin24: you mean the DTB file? it's build from kernel source so yes
<ppisati> *built
<marvin24> ppisati: you mean it is build into the kernel?
<ppisati> marvin24: nope
<ppisati> marvin24: it's in...
<ppisati> marvin24: wait
<marvin24> I know it is inside the kernel source
<marvin24> but you need to pass it to the kernel on boot
<ppisati> marvin24: right
<marvin24> either you compile it in (bad)
<marvin24> or you load it with uboot
<ppisati> marvin24: it's not compiled in
<marvin24> ppisati: so how is it loaded?
<ppisati> marvin24: we are switching to a multiplatform kernel (omap3/4, freescale imx6 and vexpress)
<marvin24> yes, even with single platform (multi-soc) you need to load it
<ppisati> marvin24: you manually modify uboot.scr or uenv.txt (or the other don't remember)
<ppisati> marvin24: wait
<ppisati> marvin24: and add
<marvin24> I haven't found this in flash-kernel
<ppisati> marvin24: "fatload mmc 0:1 0x82600000 board.dtb"
<marvin24> that's why I asked
<ppisati> marvin24: "bootm ... ... 0x82600000"
<ppisati> marvin24: our flash-kernel doesn't support DTB
<ppisati> marvin24: you need to do the modification manually
<marvin24> oh
<marvin24> so hard coded in u-boot ...
<ppisati> marvin24: you can modify the loader script and rebuild (boot.scr) or just modify/update it (uenv.txt&c)
<marvin24> boot script is in /usr/share/... and should not be modified
<marvin24> and uenv.txt is kinda non standard, but ok
<marvin24> if that's that way to go
<marvin24> ppisati: still, dtb in /lib/firmware/device-tree is not so nice
<ppisati> marvin24: there was something in /etc/...
<marvin24> if you have a /boot partition
<ppisati> marvin24: uh?
<ppisati> yu copy it to the fat partition and you load it from there
<ppisati> marvin24: that's what flash-kernel should do
<marvin24> there is /etc/defaults/flash-kernel or so which can be enhanced
<ppisati> marvin24: but (unfortunately) doesn't
<marvin24> ah, copy
<marvin24> I did it by hand
<marvin24> yes, also missing in flash-kernel
<ppisati> marvin24: watch out that if you are running an old version of u-boot it doesn't support dtb
<marvin24> ppisati: it's already booting (2013.01)
<marvin24> just need to fix up the last things (e.g. flash-kernel)
<qengho> topi`: I have a Chromebook that's a few months old.  Has Precise, which does not suspend.  I don't know about Raring.
<ogra_> qengho, apparently hrw's kernel in raring is supposed to suspend
<ogra_> i havent found the time to try it yet
<qengho> Nice.  I have a reason to upgrade, then.
 * ogra_ runs raring userspace but still the original kernel
<topi`> qengho: have you tested if suspend works in chromeOS?
<topi`> I just read that there are problems suspending in chromeOS
<topi`> doesn't ubuntu use the same kernel?
<ogra_> worked in the original chromeos install for me
<topi`> ogra_: sounds better than the suspend reliability in AC100, then ;)
<ogra_> well, in ubuntu it reliably doesnt suspend  with that kernel
<topi`> wife wants an absolutely quiet netbook, so I'm probably shelling out some $$$ for chromebook
<ogra_> and if i upgrade i'll likely lose dualboot
<topi`> how does dualboot work then?
<ogra_> and while flash from chromeone works flawless in ubuntu chromium, the hangout plugin doesnt
<topi`> I know nothing of samsung bootloader
<ogra_> painful
<qengho> topi`: not the same kernel, exept in the narrowest sense as in "your television uses the same kernel as your Android phone".
<ogra_> you need to switch back from developer mode to boot back int chrOS
<topi`> interesting
<ogra_> qengho, i currently use the exact same kernel here
<topi`> I knew ogra would ;)
<topi`> ogra_: I bet you must already be playing with some nice Aarch64 boards already ;)
<ogra_> nah, #ubuntu-touch toptally sucked me in
<topi`> you guys get all those fancy devices a year earlier than us mortals
<topi`> ouch...
<ogra_> and the boards nowadays go rather to linaro
<topi`> I was (slightly) involved in the touchscreen driver for the Nokia N(
<topi`> N9
<ogra_> well, ubuntu touch bases on CWM 10.1 ...
<ogra_> so there are no drivers to touch, they just work
<topi`> ok
<ogra_> 23 ports to other devices underway after 5 days ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<xnox> ogra_: are they merged? are they legal to be merged?
<ogra_> not yet merged, not sure what the plan is on merging, but there are images that you can just use with our userspace image
<xnox> awesome!
<ogra_> i think its absolutely legal
<xnox> if the userspace image is detached than I can see how we don't have to merge anything, apart from possibly make pointers to android repo git forests URL (either straight from android.com or with some patches applied in forked github repos)
<xnox> s/detached/independ of base-hw image/
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> porting is largely just copy paste work and a successfull compile run
<xnox> oh, so we could automate it =) e.g. by hosting a repository with android-repo manifests URLs pointing to the right places.
<ogra_> well, until you run into build issues
<ogra_> but yeah, you could just rip the snippets out of CWM
<infinity> ogra_: s/CWM/CM/ I assume?
<ogra_> err, yes
 * infinity was trying to sort out how ClockWork factored into this.
<ogra_> heh, i'm just learning all the android l33tspeak and names, bear with me :)
<XorA> ogra_: hehe, learning to optimize by changing the wallpaper then?
<ogra_> lol
<XorA> my Android devices seem to get stuck on stock roms, Optimize too often means break ;-)
<ogra_> well, we only use the kernel and driver layers (HAL, surfaceflinger etc) ... the rest is a plain ubuntu rootfs
<ogra_> so as long as androind HW layer doesnt suck performance wise ....
<XorA> would need one of these funky modern devices I guess to try ubuntu-touch
<ogra_> well, yeah, dualcore and 1G is currently a requirement ...
<ogra_> i doubt you would have aany fun below that
<marvin24> ppisati: I guess I will just change the kernel package to copy the relevant device tree to /boot/device-tree.dtb based on /proc/device-tree/model instead of poking around with flash-kernel
<ogra_> ++
<ogra_> its not like they change or anything
<XorA> ogra_: my phone is an Xperia Play :-D so just a little old :-D
#ubuntu-arm 2013-02-26
<tripelb> Looking for the community discussing - Ubuntu on the Nexus 7. Any clues where it is?
<anunnaki> hey im trying to get linux on my motorola Q its specs lists for processor two different families arm920T (ARM9TDMI family armv4) and PXA27x (xScale family armv5) why is there two listed?
<lilstevie> anunnaki, neither of those will run ubuntu-arm
<anunnaki> ok, well do you know why there are two families listed on a device? is that normal? do i go with the newer version for the toolchain?
<lilstevie> no idea, but it is the PXA272
<lilstevie> you could probably get debian armel to run on it
<infinity> Unless the same device was manufactured in two different series with an upgrade along the way.
<infinity> Dbeian armel would run on it fine.
<infinity> There might even be a kernel for it.
<anunnaki> infinity, how do i check? google only shows me results with linux 2.6.20. which i found patches for PXA27x and i alreay patched it but having probs compiling the Makefile
<anunnaki> never cross compiled anything and the only kernel i built is the present one on my pc. so right now im trying to get my devices spec situated so i know what toolchain to use and what kernel
<infinity> anunnaki: Nah, doesn't look like there are Debian kernels for it, I jumped the gun there.
<anunnaki> right now windows mobile 5.0 is on it... it has flash memory and MMU
<anunnaki> i read linux can go on it at multiple tech sites and read on person got DSL on it.. but that could be bs
<popey> ogra_: is the raring lubuntu image for ac100 known good/bad? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-preinstalled/current/
<popey> mine has been sat after it did the unpack and reboot for some time
<ogra_> popey, seems to have issues, i heard about it in #ac100 yesterday ... i'll take a look once i'm done with the phablet dailies
<popey> ok
<ogra_> the disadvantage of not having milestones ... :(
#ubuntu-arm 2013-02-27
<raster> moops
<ogra_> *yawn*
<suihkulokki> hrw: there is no vbutil_kernel in ppa build of vboot-utils ?
<hrw> suihkulokki: vboot-kernel-utils
<suihkulokki> meh
<hrw> vboot-utils has whatever is in a package and is not needed for kernel signing (vboot-kernel-utils) or partition mangling (cgpt)
<suihkulokki> your blog has outdated instructions =)
<hrw> suihkulokki: s/outdated/wrong
<tsotf> can i ask ?
<ogra_> dont ask to ask
<ogra_> just ask :)
<tsotf> hehehehe just ask. oke
<tsotf> can i backup my OS ubuntu ? so if it's broken i can restore them
<ogra_> on arm ? dure you can just make a backup of the filesystem on your SD card or usb stick (depending which arm device you use)
<ogra_> s/dure/sure/
<tsotf> wait, -.-" ubuntu-arm ? what it is ?
<ogra_> ubuntu on arm based devices (phones, developer boards arm low power servers etc)
<tsotf> ohhhh....first time i know this ubuntu-arm
#ubuntu-arm 2013-02-28
<suihkulokki> http://craigerrington.com/blog/fixing-touchpad-issues-on-arm-chromebook-chrubuntu/
<suihkulokki> It really amazes me how horrible workarounds people invent instead ot trying to learn what is the actual issue
<suihkulokki> what is even better, someone took those "instructions" and made a script to automate that:
<suihkulokki> https://github.com/jbdatko/chrubuntu_trackpad
<lilstevie> wow wtg
<lilstevie> s/g/h/
<ynezz> suihkulokki: can you enlighten me what's the real issue here?
<suihkulokki> ynezz: adding two lines to xorg.conf
<suihkulokki> ynezz: eg the fingerlow/fingerhigh settings from step 14 at: http://blogs.arm.com/software-enablement/848-running-linux-on-the-series-3-chromebook/
<ynezz> thanks :)
<marvin24> small question, is u-boot suposed to be upgraded on a distro update?
<marvin24> at least there seem to be different u-boot versions for each release
<ogra> marvin24, nope, but we ship a script in tha package that lets you do it
<marvin24> but they are not automaticly flashed
<marvin24> ok, so it's up to the user to kill his system ;-)
<ogra> right, to dangerous
<ogra> yeah :)
<ogra> not sure that script is still there though, i havent touched u-boot in ages
<marvin24> yes, no script
<marvin24> that's really save :-)
<ogra> ask jcrigby :)
<marvin24> well, each board has its own way to "flash" the bootloader
<marvin24> so it's nice as it is I think
<ogra> k
<marvin24> ogra: another question, which script sets the links in /boot?
<ogra> kernel package postinst
<marvin24> ok
<ogra> based on /etc/kernel-img.conf
<marvin24> arrr, another horribile script
<ogra_> whatm the kernel postinst ?
<ndec_> marvin24: ogra_: flash-kernel --update-bootloader, updates the bootloaders, isn't that what you were looking for?
<ogra_> thats gone with f-k 3.0
<ogra_> we used to ship a script inside that package, but thats gone too
 * marvin24 has a fight with network-manager an ipv6 tunnels
<marvin24> I'll try to understand all this before asking again ;-)
<ronniestigs> Hey. Whats the last version of ubuntu to support armv6?
<ogra_> ronniestigs, supported was armel on 11.10 ... in 12.04 there is an unsupported armel archive though
<ogra_> after that we dropped armel
<thampton> help!! http://people.canonical.com/~tobin/maverick/panda.tar.bz2
<thampton> whatever nevermind
<mosasaur> is there a way to play audio from a chroot?
<XorA> mosasaur: bind mount /dev
<mosasaur> thanks XorA
<XorA> you may need /proc and /sys as well
<mosasaur> I think I already have those
<XorA> other option is talk to pulse running outside of chroot via TCP/IP from pulse inside chroot
<XorA> but I have never done that sort of magic
<mosasaur> I think pulse won't run unless it has some kind of physical audio device
<mosasaur> at least that's what happened when my built in sound card broke
<mosasaur> but that was on a desktop machine
<XorA> there are probably a dozen other options as well
<XorA> mosasaur: as for the needing a sound card, if so there is snd-dummy to provide it :-D
<twigs> would someone be able to assist me with installing ubuntu to an sdcard for the beaglebone. I followed the readme here https://github.com/RobertCNelson/stable-kernel however when i run the ./tools/install_image.sh it completes but the beaglebone does not boot
<XorA> there is no bone listed there
<XorA> twigs: I suspect you need to source the bone kernel repo, which has extra patches on top of mainline
<XorA> twigs: https://github.com/beagleboard/kernel
<twigs> i used the git from here
<twigs> http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu
<twigs> under Advanced Users only: BeagleBone Kernel source, used in these demo images: https://github.com/RobertCNelson/linux-dev/tree/am33x-v3.2
#ubuntu-arm 2013-03-01
<mjrosenb> hey, does anyone know if the linux-omap4 images that ubuntu is asking me to install work with perf?
<xnox> I just realised that adb supports full phone backup.
<xnox> not sure how well that works with pushing apps & data from one phone to another though.
<xnox> but whould be good enough to test phablet deploy.
<xnox> on nexus4 that is.
<XorA> xnox: it seems to work well in Titanium backup so should work well in other cases
<xnox> hmm... note to self to checkout titanium backup
<ogra_> infinity, hey, look, our new community starts producing fixes for libc ... https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg00637.html ...
<ogra_> (have fun fishing them out of xda froum zips :P )
<mosasaur> I'm still trying to play audio from inside a chroot, so far alsamixergui can control the sound volume of apps running under the android host  -- which is extremely cool by the way, since this is the first time I can increase left/right master/headphones separately -- but any apps from within the chroot are inaudible or won't even start playing.
<ogra_> do you have /dev bindmounted ?
<mosasaur> ogra_: yes
<ogra_> and proc and sys too ?
<mosasaur> yes
<ogra_> then i would guess its a permission thing
<mosasaur> I have chmod 777 /dev/snd
<infinity> ogra_: Enabling debug options isn't a fix. :P
<ogra_> hehe
<ogra_> no, but his fix will likely end up in a similar place in a zip
<infinity> But the bug won't be in glibc.
<infinity> Just sayin'.
<ogra_> tell him :)
<ogra_> the next few months will surely be fun ...
<infinity> Err, are our images based on quantal still? :/
<ogra_> yes
 * infinity notes him talking about libc-2.15.so
<ogra_> a) we dont have the phablet packages in raring
<ogra_> b) we need https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-cdimage-android-builds
<ogra_> i gues we'll start raring images around april
<infinity> Anyhow.  I don't see him claiming it's a libc bug either.  It's just that turning on IO_DEBUG allows libc to trap the bug he has elsewhere.
<ogra_> haha, and there is an infinity553 in #ubuntu-touch
<ogra_> i wonder if xnox' xchat fix would catch that
<ogra_> xnox, how about a usb-creator -> phablet-flash spec ?
<xnox> ogra_: sure go ahead.
<xnox> ogra_: you can even dishout assignee to be me.
<xnox> ogra_: not sure about xchat catching that ;-)
<ogra_> not tonight anymore, but i'll add it over the weekend
<xnox> kk.
<ogra_> haha
 * ogra_ goes to watch wok racing on tv now
<lilstevie> ogra_, haha welcome to the world of xda/android, where if it isn't in a .zip it isn't good enough
<ogra_> heh, yeah
<lilstevie> it is going to make the lists painful
<lilstevie> (the influx of android "devs)
<ogra_> well, its seemingly our new part of the community
<lilstevie> and I do use that term liberally
<ogra_> so we'll have to live with it
<ogra_> yeah, there is already a thread about overclocking and replacing the bootloago with a running mario on the list
<ogra_> (in the same mail)
<lilstevie> heh
<lilstevie> not surprised in the slightest
<ogra_> it gives a good impression of what to expect i think
<lilstevie> yeah
<lilstevie> it is a good window into what the modding community will be like post release too
<lilstevie> and of what google currently deal with on their own lists
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> well, you get what you asked for i guess
<lilstevie> heh
<lilstevie> it is a delicate balance really
<lilstevie> I love how the mailing list is resembling a forum at the moment
<wookey> what's wrong with android devs? are they all clueless?
<wookey> or all use windows? Or both :-)
<ogra_> heh, they are young, bear with them :)
<lilstevie> wookey, the common name for these devs is "winzip devs" cause the extent of their dev'ing is that they used winzip removed extra apks, added a few others, and then release it as their own creation
<wookey> aha. wel I just got apt built for arm64. generating a new rootfs now...
<wookey> an image with apt in it and working networking is suddenly a lot more useful...
<lilstevie> :o do you have an arm64 device?
<wookey> nope - there are none. only models
<wookey> and I didn't run that till last week
<wookey> you can work on an arch for 2 years without actually _running_ any native code :-)
<lilstevie> heh
<ogra_> he imagines an arm64 device and then builds on it :)
<lilstevie> heh
<stgraber> and people used to complain they had to wait years to get Linux support for thei hardware. Now they have to wait years for the hardware that Linux supports to actually exists ;)
<ogra_> yeah :)
 * lilstevie wants an arm64 device yesterday
<ogra_> easy ...
<lilstevie> lol
<ogra_> if you want it yesterday you have to invent time traveling anyway so you can travell to wookey's house to next year, pick it up and go back to yesterday
<lilstevie> that does sound easy
<ogra_> yeah, totally trivial
<lilstevie> in 20 years when I finish inventing the time travel machine I will just send it back to today
<ogra_> http://www.amazon.com/Back-Future-Capacitor-Replica-Unlimited/dp/B001M5PTQM
<ogra_> just needs the peripherials
<wookey> I had to do some nsty hackery on curl. first real bodge in the whole bootstrap, but I decided I was in a hurry :-)
<wookey> oh and nss is evil. Did I complain about that already? yuk.
<wookey> why do we need 6 different ssl implmentations anyway?
<wookey>  (curl supports 6 and build-deps on 3)
<lilstevie> wookey, because 5 wasn't good enough
#ubuntu-arm 2013-03-02
<robotnut> anyone running ubuntu on phone or tablet?
<moofree> nope, but i've got it on an android stick...
 * robotnut is away: hibernating
<ogra_> robotnut, can you please turn off public away messages, thanks
#ubuntu-arm 2013-03-03
<lilstevie> ogra_, what awesome people you have on the mailing list :p https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg00681.html
#ubuntu-arm 2014-02-24
<TaoSk8r> Greets all.. Im trying to setup the ARM repo if possible on my chrubuntu installation, is this possible? Im using the 12.04 kubuntu
<TaoSk8r_> wow i guess this is a lurk mode channel
<TaoSk8r_> nobody talks here, oh well
<TaoSk8r_> have a good one, nobody who is listening.
<hvn2> hi, I have a question about the boot process...does the u-boot.bin play an active role in the boot or not ?
<infinity> hvn2: It's effectively your firmware and bootloader all rolled into one, so yes.
<hvn2> infinity: so only having a new uImage, uInitrd and boot.scr doesn't boot the system
<infinity> hvn2: That depends on the system.  But one like a Panda, for instance, has no PROM with u-boot written to it, so the only one it has is the one you give it on the SD card.
<infinity> Some other boards do have a burned-in u-boot, and don't need you to provide a spare.
<hvn2> infinity: I'm trying to boot a custom patched kernel. dpkg does create the file I mentioned, but not the u-boot.bin. After reboot, the process hangs on the boot of the new kernel. Hence the question.
<hvn2> typo: ..files I mentioned..
<infinity> hvn2: Well, the u-boot you already had should work.  You don't need a new one for each kernel.
<infinity> If you deleted your old u-boot, that wouldn't work so well. :P
<hvn2> infinity: should it work if the u-boot.bin is for a different kernel than uImage, uInitrd  and the /boot contents ?
<infinity> hvn2: u-boot isn't "for a kernel".
<infinity> hvn2: Like I said, it's effectively your firmware and bootloader.
<infinity> hvn2: You don't replace your BIOS and GRUB on every kernel update on x86.  Same general idea.
<hvn2> infinity: ok. I understand. Then I have to look further into why it won't boot.
<hvn2> infinity: you compare it to GRUB....after installing a new kernel on x86, the new kernel is usually added to GRUB. Does that go for u-boot as well ?
<infinity> hvn2: Grub updates its config file, that's all.  Usually not needed with a u-boot setup if it just follows the symlinks.  But look at your boot.scr to see what it's doing.
 * infinity needs to get some sleep.
<hvn2> infinity: ok, ty
<suihkulokki> I guess A53 is quite rare breed.. in-order 64bit cpu :)
<suihkulokki> hmm echan
<hvn2> Question: I'm about to cross-compile a custom kernel, but not sure which method to use. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ARMKernelCrossCompile at 6 says to build uImage only, while other sources say to create a deb package containing uImage, uInitrd and vmlinuz. Which is best ?
<hvn2> Running Ubuntu Precise
<hvn2> Hi, question: trying to build a custom kernel for beagleboard following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ARMKernelCrossCompile FAQ 6, I end up with a hanging system with last message "Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel. ". The boot info shows it boots the correct uImage. But why could it hang?
<ogra> did you set the right console= option ?
<hvn2> ogra: I'm using a 3.5.7 vanilla kernel, so low-level debug uart is no option. I tried console= earlier but without any result.
<hrw> why so old?
<hvn2> hrw: because of a patch I intend to use which is adapter for 3.5.7 and 3.8.13. So I could use the later one as well, but my main question is why it doesn't boot. It boots with 3.2.0, so why not 3.5.7 ?
<hvn2> ok, I have tried https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ARMKernelCrossCompile FAQ 6 with 2 different kernels: 3.5.7 and 2.6.33 (because of UART) and the board won't boot. So I'm rather clueless by now.
<ogra> how do you know it desnt boot if you dont even get the kernel messages
<ogra> fix that first
<ogra> "Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel." is only the kernel starting ... if it oopses or doesnt find iits initrd or doesnt find its rootfs it prints stuff after that to the default console
<ogra> (whatever console is defined in your config)
<hvn2> ogra: yes, I'm going to compare working stuff with custom....see what that gives
<hvn2> already did, but will get it working....
<davidkrauser> Hello everybody
<davidkrauser> Does anyone in here have any experience building for armv5 with the gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi package in Ubuntu 12.04? I can get it to work with the package in 13.10, but not with the package in 12.04.
<davidkrauser> Seems that all of the files in /usr/arm-linux-gnueabi/ are targeting armv7-a in 12.04, and armv5t in 13.10
<davidkrauser> Also seems that in 12.04, everything is built with -mfloat-abi=softfp, and everything in 13.10 is built with -mfloat-abi=soft
<davidkrauser> I used `readelf -A FILE` to inspect those files. Not sure if there's a better way.
<davidkrauser> brb
#ubuntu-arm 2014-02-26
<pranav> does tftp boot requires a root file system already present in flash device ?
<phh> obviously not
<pranav> :)
<phh> but it depends on what initramfs/cmdline you set
<pranav> so, i have uImage for ubuntu (~3MB) and another rootfs.jffs2 file
<phh> yeah, it won't work easily
<pranav> using uboot i want to boot ubuntu, so the uImage will transfer to RAM and boot the system >
<pranav> ?
<phh> well, the uImage will do whatever it wants to do
<phh> most of the time, it's simply executing initramfs
<pranav> thanks
<hrw> infinity, ogra: does Canonical works on aarch64 porting?
<infinity> hrw: I which sense?
<ogra> i think thats mostly done
<infinity> hrw: We have some people doing some things (like gccgo, and some other toolchain bits), but we're mostly consuming from upstreams.
<hrw> infinity: I just saw only doko when it came to anything aarch64 so decided to ask
<infinity> A fair few of us have done bits here and there.
<hrw> I think that I should rather s/does/who from/
<infinity> hrw: So, the usual porting suspects have done random patches: me, wgrant, doko, cjwatson, etc... mwhudson is working a lot on toolchain bugs.  But most of the things we care about work at this point, so we're not heavily invested in it.
<infinity> (gccgo being the possible exception, and mwhudson keeps hunting bugs there)
<hrw> ok, thanks
<pranav> my device has serial connector to PC. I will connect it to my host ubuntu. what can be the possible uses ??
<hrw> pranav: remote text login, kernel output
<pranav> hrw: how to setup that? any tuto
<pranav> *tutorial
#ubuntu-arm 2014-02-27
<pranav> how to setup a connection between ubuntu and my digi device ? please help
<pranav> using ethernet
<hvn2> Hi, I'm trying to compile the vanilla kernel 3.10.18 and right at the end when uImage is being created I get this error: "multiple (or no) load addresses: This is incompatible with uImages". In a post I read that this can be caused by incompatibility of the kernel with ARM. Is this correct ?
#ubuntu-arm 2014-02-28
<hvn2> can anyone tell me if in new kernels (3.10.x and newer) the ethernet/usb combichip SMSC9514 is supported? I've enabled SMSC95XX and all usb options, but both ethernet and the usb are not working. On 3.2.0 kernel the chip works fine.
<Incleta> hi everyone
<Incleta> i need help
<Incleta> I have a rasbian on my raspberry and i configured the sound card, but i play a radio with a mpg123 but i dont listen any in output of sound card
<Incleta> but if i turn the jack output i can listen :|
<k1l> Incleta: better ask in the debian or raspbian channels. ubuntu doesnt even support that old arm chip
<Incleta> k1l: i cant find any to help me :|
<Incleta> im in chanel of raspbian
<Incleta> but dont get a response :(
#ubuntu-arm 2015-02-24
<yggdrasi1> hello all
<yggdrasi1> I have some issue using the USB blutooth dongle CC2540 from TI. It will be not recognized by ubuntu.
<yggdrasi1> [538509.561120] usb 3-1: new full-speed USB device number 44 using xhci_hcd
<yggdrasi1> [538509.580009] usb 3-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0451, idProduct=16b3
<yggdrasi1> [538509.580017] usb 3-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
<yggdrasi1> [538509.580021] usb 3-1: Product: CC2540 USB Dongle
<yggdrasi1> [538509.580024] usb 3-1: Manufacturer: Texas Instruments
<yggdrasi1> bluetooth             391136  24 bnep,ath3k,btusb,hci_uart,rfcomm
<yggdrasi1> from lsmod
<yggdrasi1> having added a udev rule
<yggdrasi1> reloaded the cdc_asm module
<yggdrasi1> but don't firing me up the ttyACM0 interface
<yggdrasi1> did one of you have an idea?
<ogra_> yggdrasi1, on your PC ?
<yggdrasi1> yes
<yggdrasi1> but it's a usb dongle
<ogra_> well, cdc_acm should theoretically just catch it without any udev hackery
<yggdrasi1> also try without it
<ogra_> ask the kernel team
<ogra_> in #ubuntu-kernel
<yggdrasi1> thx
#ubuntu-arm 2015-02-27
<vpsdeal> http://www.daringhost.com/billing/aff.php?aff=086
#ubuntu-arm 2016-02-29
<flexiondotorg> ogra_, https://ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker.org/blog/ubuntu-pi-flavours-for-raspberry-pi-3/
<flexiondotorg> ogra_, I've had a busy weekend and can speak freely now. Any chance Pi 3 support can be added to 16.04?
<flexiondotorg> ogra_, Perhaps even the first native arm64 implementation?
<infinity> flexiondotorg: is the kernel support upstream?  If so, talk to me about it sometime.
<flexiondotorg> infinity, Mostly the existing linux-rpi2 kernel will work "I think".
<infinity> flexiondotorg: But it's not a 32-bit CPU...
<flexiondotorg> infinity, Although it will need modifying to support the new integrated wifi and bluetooth.
<flexiondotorg> infinity, Yes, hence my question. I'm wondering about what is involved with that.
<flexiondotorg> infinity, I suspect simply recompling the linux-rpi2 kernel on arm64 would result in a working kernel.
<infinity> I'm doing some arm64 images shortly for the dragonboard anyway.  The infra will all be there.  But we'll need a kernel that boots (ideally, the generic kernel) to support the Pi3 as arm64.
<infinity> flexiondotorg: "recompiling it on arm64" would still give you an armv7 kernel.
<flexiondotorg> infinity, Oh. OK.
<flexiondotorg> infinity, So what are the arm64 architecture build exactly?
<flexiondotorg> Not ARMv8-A?
<infinity> arm64 is ARMv8-A, yes.
<infinity> But the raspi2 kernel is ARMv7.  Building it on a different userpsace doesn't change that.
<infinity> Just like you can build an i386 kernel on amd64.
<infinity> That said, it's possible that the rpi2 kernel boots on the pi3 in v7 mode, but that would be a terrible waste of hardware.
<infinity> Anyhow, I have no Pi3 (nor Pi2, for that matter).  I maye have to pick one up and play.
<infinity> I should also sleep...
 * popey pokes flexiondotorg 
<ogra_> infinity, oh, really, you will be doing non snappy dragonboard images ? how do you solve the bootloader issues =
<ogra_> ?
<ogra_> (i imagine it gets pretty tricky to get that 8 partition GPT setup into d-i)
<popey> ogra_: do we have a snappy image for Pi 3 yet? It's been out for 3 hours now.. chop chop! :)
<popey> (I have two arriving tomorrow)
<ogra_> i would have to order one :)
<popey> apparently the pi2 images should work fine on it, but will miss the modules for wifi/bt
<ogra_> popey, ah, thats a ppisati thing then, he just needs to enable that module in our pi2 kernel
<ogra_> (not sure if the firmware is distributable etc, but thats definitely the first step)
 * flexiondotorg pokes popey back
<ogra_> so once you got your board, see if you can get one of our images to boot and ask ppisati what data he needs to knwo what module is missing (if it is some std. thing it might even be in, we compile a lot of extra modules)
<flexiondotorg> ogra_, My understanding is the firmware is redistributable. The Raspberry Pi Foundation will be updating their various repositories today.
<ogra_> flexiondotorg, right ... for a non-snappy image you want that packaged though
<ogra_> (for a snappy image too, but there the archive isnt mandatory)
<popey> ogra_: ok
<flexiondotorg> Yes, The is a new firmware for the wifi/bt and another blob that patches that firmware. Sadly, I've not been able to get the blod to download, so not BT just yet :-(
<flexiondotorg> By download, I mean via hciattach to the uart.
 * flexiondotorg is of to rest.
#ubuntu-arm 2016-03-01
<popey> hm, the snappy 16.04 image doesn't even boot on my pi 3
<popey> strange
<ogra_> popey, yeah, i just read a review where they claim the same ... i ordered two boards and will 5take a look once they are here
<popey> kk
<ogra_> i guess the bootloader needs updating at least
<popey> seems so
<ogra_> seems flexiondotorg has his images working though
<popey> with the pi3 kernel
<ogra_> aha
<ogra_> (i understood he didnt have to modify anything ... guess that is what i got wrong then)
<louloulou> anyone know how to get linux to re-init  / re scan the MMC
<louloulou> I am in the F'd up situation that when I try and mount the MMC I get  a "invalid scr record"
<nedstark> is there a list of recent tablet models that ubuntu runs on?
#ubuntu-arm 2016-03-03
<zzarr> hello! can I run apt on Ubuntu snappy core on a Dragonboard?
<zzarr> (410c)
<ogra_> zzarr, nope ... there is a "classic dimension" that allows running apt in a container, but this is yet broken on arm64 ( this is bug 1543764 )
 * ogra_ wonders where the bot is 
<ogra_> bug 1543764
<ogra_> zzarr, until that works, downlad and scp the arm64 core tarball from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/ ... unpack it in /home/ubuntu and copy /etc/resolv.conf into place, then you can chroot
<ogra_> (btw ... there is #snappy that is better suited for such questions)
<zzarr> thanks ogra
<zzarr> I have my Dragonboard now :-)
<zzarr> ogra_, how does Ubuntu behave on the Dragonboard? like a desktop (one partition rw or lika a phone, many partitions, one system partition ro)
<zzarr> (if I install the official vivid image)
<ogra_> vivid ?
<ogra_> there is no official vivid image
<zzarr> wily
<ogra_> all we have is a xenial snappy image
<zzarr> I meant core
<ogra_> (for which we should really go to #snappy)
<zzarr> Ubuntu core image
<ogra_> there is no such thing, only a snappy image in beta status
<zzarr> I remember wrong then?
<zzarr> well I just want an working X11 (or Mir, but Mir is broken at the moment)
#ubuntu-arm 2016-03-04
<zzarr> how do I setup a kit for 64bit arm in Qt Creator
<zzarr> ?
#ubuntu-arm 2017-02-27
<mchasard> bjr
<yannick-proton> bonjour
<yannick-proton> vous avez lu mon mÃ©ssage ?
<mchasard> le message sur ubuntu fr ?
<mchasard> quelle est la derniere version connu pour raspberry pi3 ?
<mchasard> manjaro arm arrette la maintenance donc j'tais sur plusieurs distros et la je m(interroge
<mchasard> donc je ne sais pas si j'etais sur la 15.10 o u la 16.04
#ubuntu-arm 2017-02-28
<kenarm64> Hi, I am looking for some advice on how to install Ubuntu 14.0.5 on an ARM-based server - mustang board running TianoCore 3.06.25 UEFI 2.4.0.  Hoping this may be an appropriate forum for asking. I have tried many of the boot methods shown via the Ubuntu site but been unsuccessful.  I have Ubuntu 16.04.1 installed OK on another/similar hw.  Thanks!
#ubuntu-arm 2018-02-26
<mattstep> Hi, I'm trying to run ubuntu 16.04 lts on my beaglebone white, I can't seem to enable UARTS1-5, does anyone know what I might be missing?
#ubuntu-arm 2018-03-01
<bernwithane> hey gang, im trying to install ubuntu touch on my google pixel 2. UBports isnt working and im having some difficulty. does anyone have a solid resource for me to check out?
#ubuntu-arm 2018-03-03
<r3muxd> Does anyone know if minbase debootstrap includes apt-get?
