#edubuntu 2006-03-13
<iGotNoTime> can a debian compiled application run on edubuntu?
<iGotNoTime> Fedora ?
<iGotNoTime> Suse?
<Burgwork> iGotNoTime, maybe
<iGotNoTime> how do I try?
<Burgwork> if it just compiled, it might
<Burgwork> if it is packaged, you should be able to install it if it is debian
<iGotNoTime> well i don't know how to tell
<Burgwork> do you have a .rpm or a .deb?
<iGotNoTime> .deb yes
<Burgwork> of which program?
<iGotNoTime> deb and rpm both are available
<iGotNoTime> a SIP phone
<iGotNoTime> http://www.gizmoproject.com/download-linux.html
<iGotNoTime> I have $60 remaining and would like to keep it
<iGotNoTime> that is almost 2 years of phone service for me
<Burgwork> are you running 5.10?
<iGotNoTime> yes I am
<iGotNoTime> I am a fresh user today :P
<iGotNoTime> 12 hours old :)
<Burgwork> you don't need gizmo to talk sip
<Burgwork> linphone is packaged and in universe
<iGotNoTime> Linphone is not accepting my login and kphone is adding a variable to the first few characters of my URI
<iGotNoTime> it will work fine for straight SIP
<iGotNoTime> but I want to call standard PSTN lines
<iGotNoTime> using my login
<Burgwork> hmm
<Burgwork> you can try downloading the deb
<bobulator> anyopne got any idea why a thin wouldnt be picking up the dhcp?
<bobulator> cant think of anyhitng...
<bobulator> im certain its not the cables :(
<Burgundavia> bobulator: do you have enough addresses to be leased out?
<bobulator> yup
<bobulator> only got one other thin going
<Burgundavia> might it be hardware?
<bobulator> hmm
<bobulator> what could be wrong?
<Burgundavia> no idea, welcome to the joy of debugging network issues
<bobulator> haha
<Burgundavia> there are just so many variables
<bobulator> well theres only a net card, gfx card in there
<bobulator> maybe i just try a diff net card?
<Burgundavia> having never setup an edubuntu server, there may be something basic I am missing, but try that
<Burgundavia> also try booting the two in the opposite order
<bobulator> k
<bobulator> it doesnt seem like theres that much to go wrong...
<Burgundavia> heh
<bobulator> hmm the new ip address pops up in arp
<bobulator> it just doesnt seem to like it
<bobulator> ok ill try booting them in the other order, brb!
<bobulator> hmm no luck
<bobulator> just a random mobo or gfx crd incompatibility?
<bobulator> cant even think what else there is to go wrong
<Burgundavia> if it still doesn't boot, I suspect the thin client
<bobulator> yeah but what bit of it? there doesnt seem to be anything to go wrong :p
<Burgundavia> hmm, try another network card
<bobulator> did that
<bobulator> i think theyre all the same tho
<Burgundavia> is the hardware identical?
<bobulator> nooo wayy
<bobulator> all random tat from all over the place
<Burgundavia> do you have a third thin client to confirm that you can indeed boot two off the server?
<bobulator> we have had 3 up before
<Burgundavia> ok, just confirming
<bobulator> s coo l:0
<bobulator> :)
<bobulator> boot proot=pxe, pnp/bev boot=disable, default boot=network, local boot=disable, prompt time=2, setup message=enable, everything sound ok there?
<bobulator> anything in the bios i could mess with?
<bobulator> ooh hang on the server isnt recieving the mac address
<bobulator> hmm according to the net the error means it cant get a valid filename
<bobulator> how can i look at my pxe boot settings for where to get the image from?
<Burgundavia> sorry, no idea
<bobulator> s ok :(
<bobulator> argh this makes no sense
<bobulator> am i daft enough to try changing the motherboard at 3 in the morning?
<bobulator> argh and on this one it shows up the boot agent thing and then doesnt even *try* to boot
<bobulator> *cries*
<Burgundavia> salut highvoltage
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: salut!
<Adalwulf> Howdy all! Is there any Internet Content Filtering in edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> Adalwulf: not currently packaged
<Adalwulf> So we have to install fromsomewhere outside of the repositories?
<Burgundavia> currently yes
<Adalwulf> Do you recommend anything? I'm leaning towards Dan's Guardian. I like the name(it rhymes with Asgardian).
<Burgundavia> ogra is leaning towards Willow, which is bayesian
<Adalwulf> I guess I'll go with Willow then. Thanx Burgundavia.
<Adalwulf> Wait. I thought that Willow linked to non-GPL libraries.
<Adalwulf> Maybe it was just the frontend.
<Burgundavia> http://www.digitallumber.net/software/willow/
<Adalwulf> Thanx.
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> hehe. seems like there's an ogra, an oger and an ogar on the ubuntu channels :)
<jsgotangco> hiya JaneW 
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
<JaneW> go something for me to proof read - my inbox is under control. \0/
<JaneW> :))
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> when i get home
* jsgotangco is somewhere way down south for a talk
<JaneW> oic, enjoy and good luck
* JaneW should catch-up on mailing list posts now
<jsgotangco> the wireless here is pretty bad
<highvoltage> hi JaneW. where in the world are you atm?
<jsgotangco> hopefully not swimming
<JaneW> highvoltage: Rondebosch, Cape Town
<JaneW> highvoltage: how was the weather on Monday!? I even took a photo of my thermometer, and blogged about it.
<JaneW> highvoltage: got some new site stuff for me to see?
<highvoltage> JaneW: the drupal site is installed at proto.edubuntu.org
* JaneW goes to look
<highvoltage> JaneW: i can mail you the passwords, let me just look up your gpg key on launchpad...
<jsgotangco> wow JaneW has a gpg key????
<JaneW> I do :P
<highvoltage> JaneW: there's not much to see yet, it's a clean installation, and znarl needs to arrange a login for me so that i can install the theme
<jsgotangco> and who was that girl who said keysignings are weird in sydney
<Burgundavia> see, geekism is infectious
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it's a requirement to sign the CoC
<JaneW> jsgotangco: they are pretty darn funny to watch!
<JaneW> Burgundavia: nod, yes I am becoming more and more geeky *grin*
<jsgotangco> there wasn't a super keysigning during UBZ?
<Burgundavia> yes
<JaneW> jsgotangco: there was a small one, I wasn't there
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I got my key near the end
<jsgotangco> that kinda sucked
<JaneW> jsgotangco: but I am in fabbione's key ring (is that the right lingo?) so I am pretty sorted! ;)
<jsgotangco> oh we're connected then
<jsgotangco> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/857A8BE5.html
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/paths/0x9E379FC6-0x857A8BE5.png
<JaneW> wow fabbio is an internet slut ;)
* JaneW should get out more huh? 4 signatures only, 3 from fab
<JaneW> I am sure I signed with ogra too...
<JaneW> that was my first attempt, I must have botched it
<Burgundavia> s/internet//
<highvoltage> JaneW: our international access sux here atm, i'll get that to you a bit later
<highvoltage> JaneW: i haven't signed with anyone yet, perhaps we can sign with each other?
<JaneW> highvoltage: sure... does that mean I have to drag my passport in there? ;)
<jsgotangco> JaneW only has 4 cross signatures but her ranking is already 4,000+
<jsgotangco> heh
* JaneW blows a kiss to fabbione
<highvoltage> JaneW: might as well, i don't mind following procedure :P
<JaneW> jsgotangco: what can I say, I know who to 'connect' with ;)
<jsgotangco> connections really matter
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> you could have bugged lamont too
<jsgotangco> or anyone on the top 100
<jsgotangco> a friend of mine had his key signed by mark, that didnt affect his rank too much heh
<jsgotangco> but get your key signed by lamont or fabbione you're in the biz
* Burgundavia is reminded he still has signatures from UBZ he needs to process
<jsgotangco> JaneW, happy women's day
<JaneW> jsgotangco: that's on 9 August here :P
<JaneW> jsgotangco:  but I'll happily accept another one - do I get the day off? ;)
<jsgotangco> my respect is enough
<jsgotangco> heh
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<JaneW> anyone want to help me guess at home many edubuntu users we have?
<JaneW> home=how
<JaneW> can we see how many times the ISO has been downloaded?
<Burgundavia> JaneW: the website logs should tell you
* JaneW estimated the install base at a 'few thousand' that sound right?
<highvoltage> judging by the feedback from the mailing list and on irc, a few thousand sounds just about right
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Burgundavia> probably, though I honestly that that is conservative
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: i think so too, but i wouldn't want to inflate
<JaneW> I was hoping for more, but without any way to verify that 'felt' right, but I think it's conservative too
<JaneW> if we can see how many d/ls there have been we should get a more accurate measurement
<highvoltage> JaneW: do you have to give one number?
<JaneW> highvoltage: that's how I gauged from blogs, articles, mailing list etc
<JaneW> highvoltage: no I had to give rough estimate
<highvoltage> JaneW: it might be better to say we have x amount mailing list subscribers, x amount downloads, etc
<highvoltage> JaneW: is this for an internal or external report?
<JaneW> highvoltage: not a bad approach
<JaneW> highvoltage: silbs has asked
<JaneW> we are still climbing on distrowatch, which is a good sign
<highvoltage> if it's external, i will be justified in an optimistic view
<highvoltage> JaneW: we are also preparing to install edubuntu in all the tuxlabs, that will be happening from April. that will be another +/- 200 000 users :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: w00t \o/
<JaneW> wow, tuXlabs has grown a lot!
<highvoltage> our skubuntu installation is kind of like an old fasioned edubuntu, except that there are some technical differences, for all practical purposes, you might as well count them as edubuntu labs, as far as i'm concerned.
<highvoltage> yep, 200 schools at an average of 1000 learners + teachers per school.
<JaneW> *clap clap*
* JaneW plots to take over the world...
* JaneW dares ogra to use this as the edubuntu 6.04 wallpaper http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/edubuntu/76 ;)
* highvoltage looks at pic
* highvoltage actually likes it, although the edubuntu name doesn't fit there.
<highvoltage> if the kids and rainbow were smaller, and there were more plain background, then it wouldn't really be that bad.
<highvoltage> i'm not suggesting it for wallpaper, but is there an SVG available somewhere?
<JaneW> I agree it is cute, and if it were a bit subtler (as you say) it could work
<JaneW> and it's diversity sensitive! :P
<JaneW> I have an e-mail address for the guy
<JaneW> it was done by https://launchpad.net/people/toxictoadz
<highvoltage> ah, thanks
<JaneW> http://www.flickr.com/photos/terencewong/109523314/
<mhz> Hi All, edubunteros!!
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 35 mins
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 5 mins
<JaneW> time to pee/smoke/get coffee/walk dog/stretch etc
<pips1> sorry, can't make the meeting today :-/
<pips1> I'll read the logs
<pips1> cu
<iGotNoTime> I had a very embarassing meeting lastnight for work :(
<iGotNoTime> I forwarded my SIP to my home phone (the batterry on my cordless was dead though) so had to get online for the meeting
<iGotNoTime> Then I couldn't find a SIP softphone and install fast enough so the other guy mentioned Skype
<iGotNoTime> Same issue with Skype :(
<iGotNoTime> so he suggested Google Talk, which is not available for Linux
<iGotNoTime> I ended up booting XP, rushing to install skype
<iGotNoTime> ashamed and very late
<iGotNoTime> So how was our night's?
<iGotNoTime> LOL
<iGotNoTime> ogra : morning sir :)
<highvoltage> PS: this is some of the stuff our help desk put together: http://jonathancarter.ossn.co.za/files/tuXlabHowTos.tgz
<highvoltage> very basic stuff, don't expect much!
<highvoltage> ok bye!
<JaneW> http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=edubuntu <- Edubuntu Screencasts
<ogra> to sad i have no machine i can view that on
<iGotNoTime> what way is it limited ?
<iGotNoTime> or are you command line only?
* mhz needs to turn off his computer again, for about 4-5 hours again.
<mhz> bye all
<ogra> no flash for linux powerpc or linux amd64 ...
<ogra> i currently have on i386 around
<ogra> *no
<iGotNoTime> none for amd64 ??!!
<ogra> macromediaq refuses to build one ...
<iGotNoTime> ppc I can understand and excuse but amd 64 is disappointing
<ogra> not much you can do apart from complaining at them
<iGotNoTime> ya
<iGotNoTime> I am happy to see a MAC guy who is not such a Hooray for Mac freak finally :D
<ogra> i only have that ibook to build adn test edubuntu for powerpc ... :)
<iGotNoTime> will packages that say KDE still work with edubuntu?
<iGotNoTime> I want to try quanta
<ogra> sure
<iGotNoTime> excellent
<ogra> you already have a handfull kde packages installed by default 
<iGotNoTime> and I have a question about my repository list...
<iGotNoTime> I edited out the commented areas of the source file
<iGotNoTime> yet when I use synaptic to search for something as common as Skype I find nothing
<iGotNoTime> so I think that universe or multiverse is messed up
<iGotNoTime> how do I confirm?
<ogra> skype is propriatary software
<ogra> its not shippable, so not in the repos
<iGotNoTime> but they have a .deb releasee
<iGotNoTime> how do I load it?
<iGotNoTime> I have the .deb on my desktop
<ogra> sure, you cvan install the single deb manually if it was compiled for ubuntu
<iGotNoTime> if if if lol
<ogra> sudo dpkg -i filename.deb 
<iGotNoTime> that is what I always loved :D:D
<iGotNoTime> tried that, no good for me
<iGotNoTime> perhaps some .deb will not work with us?
<ogra> but really that only works for ubuntu compiled stuff ... dont use debian packages if you dont exactly know what you are doing
<iGotNoTime> ok
<iGotNoTime> so all unbuntu people can not use Skype basically?
<ogra> many do ...
<iGotNoTime> I don't like Skype no big loss for me, I just was in a pinch lastnight and needed it :P
<ogra> i never touched it but i'm sure the wiki has a howto to install it
<iGotNoTime> everyone says THE WIKI
<iGotNoTime> does that mean our wiki?
<ogra> wiki.edubuntu.org
<iGotNoTime> ok just making sure :)
<iGotNoTime> thanks again for the help :)
<iGotNoTime> questions are getting fewer and fewer
<ogra> (it uses same database as kubuntu.org ubuntu.com ... so the content is the same ;) )
<iGotNoTime> ok
<iGotNoTime> when I search with synaptic does it automatically search all sources in my source file? Or do I search one repositiry at a time manually selecting each?
<ogra> it searches all available sources
<pere> ogra: a edubuntu-related question.  do you know if the multiseat package in ubuntu is much used/tested?  how flexible is it with hardware configurations?
<ogra> i pretty much suspect nobody used/tested it after hoary
<ogra> it was a request from HP that we add it ... but i dont know if they actually use it
<iGotNoTime> has anyone in here ever had issue with the terminal not working?
<iGotNoTime> I need ssh acces and it was fine an hour ago
<iGotNoTime> now I click terminal and starts to load, flashes up and disappears
<iGotNoTime> something changed and I have not done anything but conversed on meebo.com
<iGotNoTime> I will try the enhanced for gnome
<iGotNoTime> enhanced needs the basic
<iGotNoTime> it says the terminal application is no longer available!!
<iGotNoTime> will try reboot
<iGotNoTime> even after reboot still no terminal :(
<iGotNoTime> it says "starting terminal" then flashes and it is gone
<spacey> i had it sometimes don't remember when it occurred
<spacey> try `xterm`
<spacey> and start the gnome-terminal from there
<spacey> then you can probably see why it exits unexpectedly
<spacey> iGotNoTime: alt + F2
<iGotNoTime> ok
<spacey> en type xterm there
<iGotNoTime> it says:
<iGotNoTime> (gnome-terminal:9144):Gtk-CRITICAL **:gtk_accel_label_closure: assertion 'gtk_accel_group_closure (accel_closure) !=NULL' failed
<iGotNoTime> can I access ssh through xterm?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<iGotNoTime> ok I have ssh access through xterm, but gnome terminal is still fubar. I will be back for more. Right now I have to go fix sql things on one of our dedicated boxes
<iGotNoTime> thanks so far spacey
<spacey> gl
<pere> ogra: ok.  thanks for the info.
<jelkner> ogra: u here?
<iGotNoTime> no conversation for quite some time
<iGotNoTime> maybe working?
<Burgwork> i don't work
<jelkner> anyone here know anything about login problems on edubuntu?
<jelkner> i'm here at the mtrainier library where we have a small edubuntu lab setup
<jelkner> 2 clients
<jelkner> i get regular calls (about twice a month) from the librarian telling me that the clients stopped permitting logins
<jelkner> i wish i could solve this problem once and for all
<jelkner> restarting the server seems to fix it
<jelkner> but it comes back again
* jelkner logs off to restart the server...
<jelkner> ogra: u here?
<highvoltage> jelkner: are you an educator at a school?
<jelkner> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> and you said "u"? you just made my day :)
<highvoltage> (i had an english teacher get very angry at me once for doing that)
<jelkner> highvoltage: english teachers are angry with us (geeks) for corrupting the language... oh well ;-)
<highvoltage> jelkner: i take it you're not an english teacher then :)
<jelkner> nope: computer science
<jelkner> hightvoltage: i'm heading home, i'll talk to you later...
<highvoltage> ogra: pingie
<highvoltage> i suppose ogras need sleep too.
<highvoltage> goodnight!
<Petaris> Hello all
<Petaris> ogra: How do you guys handle sound to the clients?
<ogra> Petaris, esound 
<ogra> i'm hoping to change to gstreamer at some point, esd was the simplest and fastest solution for now
<Petaris> ogra: esd huh, do you know if there is a volume control for it at the client side?
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> k12ltsp and sound sucks
<ogra> nope, no volume control
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> thats why i want either alsa directly or gstreamer in dapper+1 or +2
<Petaris> I have users reporting different sound levels but I don't know why
<Petaris> alsa?  How?
<ogra> thats hardware related
<ogra> we always set the volume to 80% in ubuntu ... 
<Petaris> right, but the volume was set to 75 in ltsp.conf
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> i have clients that burst your ears with 80% and i have others where you hear nothing at all
<Petaris> er, lts.conf
<Petaris> weird
<Petaris> these clients are all the same too
<ogra> hmm, strange
<Petaris> they also complain about grabled audio
<Petaris> it could be something fc3 is doing though
<ogra> hmm, havent had this here
<ogra> it can also be a network saturation
<Petaris> If I could get some time with the server I could get it rebuilt
<Petaris> server is gbit to the switches and 100mbit to the clients from there
<Petaris> so it _shouldn't_ be saturation
<ogra> should be fine ... 
<ogra> but who knows :)
* Petaris beats the crap out of fc3
<ogra> one guy doing file sharing to 5000 connections and your network dies ;)
<Petaris> how were you thinking of using alsa directly
<Petaris> not likly in an elementary school
<ogra> no idea yet... its on my todo list to experiment with the different implementations for the next release ...
<Petaris> when is the next release scheduled for?
<Petaris> it would be handy to shove some of the overhead for multimedia to the clients
<ogra> next is april, biut that one is frozen
<Petaris> ahh
<ogra> the one i'm talking about is the october release
<Petaris> oh
<crimsun> the easier solution would probably involve gst pipelines
<ogra> the next six weeks i'm busy with getting the cd in shape 
<ogra> crimsun, can i access the mixer through that ? 
<Petaris> crimsun: gst?
<ogra> i thought about gst pipelines
<Petaris> gstreamer?
<ogra> yep
<crimsun> ogra: as in volume?
<Petaris> ahh
<ogra> yep
<crimsun> ogra: I haven't found a way, but that certainly doesn't preclude one's existence
<ogra> heh
<Petaris> at this point anything will go as long as it works
<ogra> me neither ...
<ogra> esd normally works ok 
<Petaris> I'm using esd
<Petaris> :/
<ogra> i talked to a guy with 400 thin clients in a net
<Petaris> I couldn't get nasd to work at all
<ogra> he had no probs at all
<Petaris> wow
<Petaris> how many in use at a time though?
<Petaris> btw, there are some trouble softwares
<ogra> i think he said something around 100-200 commonly
<Petaris> tuxtype has major performance issues
<ogra> (its a while ago, but he was the convincing factor for esd)
<Petaris> in k12ltsp anyway
<ogra> thats a tuxtype prob
<ogra> we have this too
<Petaris> right, but so you know
<Petaris> it has to do with them redrawing the entire screen with every change
<ogra> i will approach the upstzream author ...
<ogra> and flying text that triggers a lot of changes :)
<Petaris> yep
<Petaris> if there was anyway to get ALSA to work directly with the clients that would be a very nice option
<Petaris> already massive support for is
<Petaris> s/is/it
<crimsun> the problem with relying on ALSA directly would be wheel reinvention
<Petaris> ?
<ogra> yeah, but all ways to do that are ugly
<Petaris> what about running it locally on the client?
<ogra> i'd really love to solve the problem once and for all by finding a way to export the /dev directory in a sane way
<Petaris> load it into the clients memmory and run it from there
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> i still need a network interconnect ...
<ogra> just loading it doesnt suffic :)
<ogra> e
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/atk/ltsp_kiosk/
<ogra> heh, i have this implemented locally :)
<Petaris> really?
<ogra> ubuntu based 
<ogra> i want to introduce it as an option in a future release 
<ogra> but before...
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<ogra> ltsp in kiosk mode is *very* cool ...
<ogra> with the ubuntu ltsp you wont need X on the server ...
<Petaris> nice
<ogra> so the server install only needs firefox and the common ltsp stuff
<ogra> it doesnt need much memory ...
<ogra> so you can run a completel library with 10-20 clients from a standard discount PC :)
<Petaris> I would also off load firefox, openoffice, and maybe multimedia
<Petaris> cool
<ogra> what i have is just running an autologin and starting firefox fullscreen
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> but thats enough for most librarys or internet cafes
<Petaris> I would want to push xfce out to it
<Petaris> yeah, I need more stuff for a school
<ogra> then you need more space and need to lock down xfce etc etc
<Petaris> OO.o is a must
<Petaris> does this require space on the clients?
<Petaris> or does it just use the nfs mount?
<ogra> so i'd go with a normal gnome desktop in kiosk mode ... sabayon is a really cool rights management tool
<ogra> it uses the nfs root as every ltsp ...
<Petaris> xfce eats less resources then gnome
<ogra> true
<ogra> but is missing tools like sabayon and pessulus
<Burgwork> sabaylon and pessulus are very very cool
<ogra> yup
<Burgwork> the only question I have is with deploying sabayon
<Petaris> could dev be created localy on the client and use symliks or nfs mounts to the server /dev files?
<ogra> we dont deploy it until upstream makes it work over ssh tunnels :)
<ogra> you cant use it on ubuntu thin clients currently ...
<ogra> Petaris, nope
<Petaris> bummer
<ogra> Petaris, /dev files are special 
<ogra> thats the prob ...
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> you can cross acess /dev trees with some kernel patches, but thats the wrong way imho it should happen in userspace
<Petaris> but what about an nfs mount to the server and a symlink pointing to the actuall /dev file?
<ogra> the clustering solutions do it this way
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> thats still not working :)
<ogra> as long as nfs is involved it wiont work ...
<Petaris> well, which bits of /dev on the server would it actually need?
<ogra> one option would be to have a ncd like nbd exists
<ogra> (network char device)
<ogra> that you could mount over the network ...
<Petaris> what if
<Petaris> client boots from the server
<Petaris> the serer pushes out a virtual envirornment to the client (including /dev etc)
<Petaris> that could run in a 128 MB CF card
<Petaris> on the client for the duration of the session
<Petaris> that way, as far as the client knows everything is local
<Petaris> the just have nfs mounts to the applications that you don't wish to push out
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> like pushing a virtual hdd image
<ogra> and what about <= 64MB clients 
<Petaris> ogra: ?
<Petaris> for memmory you mean?
<Petaris> If you were pushing the virtual disk image to the CF card for the duration of the session it should be enough
<Petaris> and the virtual disk image could be made fairly small
<Petaris> you would need a ide CF adapter though
<Petaris> or a hdd or something
<ogra> yep
<Petaris> but it could be a good solution
<Petaris> keep the disk image as small as possible
<Petaris> maybe compress it for the push to the clients
<Petaris> then have it decompress locally
<Petaris> and just have it deleted when the client shuts down
<Petaris> later
<Petaris> I need to go home now
<lucasvo_>  /w 12
<lucasvo_> ups
<iGotNoTime> Has anyone lost the ability to open their gnome terminal?
<iGotNoTime> I have and if you have done this I would appreciate any advice you could offer so I can have it back
<Burgwork> iGotNoTime, what do you mean? does it simply not work?
<iGotNoTime> it says starting terminal, flashes up the box and then is gone
<iGotNoTime> I try to manually open it and it says file does not exist
<Burgwork> in 5.10?
<iGotNoTime> I feel kinda proud that I have stumped everyone :P
<iGotNoTime> yes
<iGotNoTime> xterm works but not gnome-terminal
<Burgwork> wow, now idea
<Burgwork> s/now/no
<iGotNoTime> It was fine, I was reading a website and opened it 10 minutes later to use it, and it just did that
<iGotNoTime> I edited nothing, only reading Google News feed
<iGotNoTime> kinda cool :P
<iGotNoTime> no big deal I have xterm :)
#edubuntu 2006-03-14
<iReALLyGotNoTime> do any of you guys run asterisk?
<JoePowerbook> hello
<JoePowerbook> anyone there?
<pc22> pls help: tried audacity:  it says there was an error initializing the audio i/o layer. i can still pay music tho
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<iGotNoTime> can anyone in here help with a SSH command?
<Burgundavia> what sort?
<iGotNoTime> well you know how with edbuntu we can click system/ users & groups
<iGotNoTime> I want to know how to do the same exact thing in SSH
<iGotNoTime> we need to put a user into the root group with the same chmod access as root for a week
<iGotNoTime> we are moving some files around and the server has 60 + domains
<iGotNoTime> that's 60 passwords for ftp
<iGotNoTime> we want one, so he can navigate all domains
<highvoltage> iGotNoTime: i think you need to read a bit more on sudo
<highvoltage> iGotNoTime: you can give a user sudo rights, so that he can also do some administration
<iGotNoTime> yes but the user will not be logging in with a terminal
<iGotNoTime> he will be using a windows FTP client
<iGotNoTime> no additional options other than username and password
<iGotNoTime> via ssh I can use SUDO
<iGotNoTime> but he is not transferring files with SSH
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<konfuzed> hey there, there s a tune playing in amarok and I want to save that one tune as a file on my desktop but I cant seem to find the save to function.... 
<konfuzed> uh pointers anyone
<konfuzed> wow  its drag and drop only 
<konfuzed> no menu items to save files to your drive
<konfuzed> I gleaned this from the amaroK manual under ripping cds
<iReALLyGotNoTime> you know how with edbuntu we can click system/ users & groups
<iReALLyGotNoTime> I want to know how to do the same exact thing in SSH
<iReALLyGotNoTime> Anyone know how?
<ogra> ??
<iReALLyGotNoTime> morning :)
<ogra> hi ... what do you want to do ?
<iReALLyGotNoTime> we need to put a user into the root group with the same chmod access as root for a week
<iReALLyGotNoTime> we are moving some files around and the server has 60 + domains
<iReALLyGotNoTime> that's 60 passwords for ftp
<iReALLyGotNoTime> we want one, so he can navigate all domains
<iReALLyGotNoTime> so we need to SSH and adjust the user group he is in and the right or simply duplicate the root rights to him so he can use SFTP to see everything
<iReALLyGotNoTime> the right permissions**
<ogra> just add the user to the admin group and he's able to use sudo
<iReALLyGotNoTime> WS_FTP is windows software, he will not be given an option to type SUDO
<iReALLyGotNoTime> it is an FTP client
<iReALLyGotNoTime> he is not logging in with any terminal, he is moving files
<ogra> why dont you use putty and sftp file transfer ? 
<iReALLyGotNoTime> I didn't know that it compared to the options within WS_FTP
<ogra> it has a sftp client builtin afaik ...
<iReALLyGotNoTime> so there is no way to the user group, he would be forced to use sudo?
<iReALLyGotNoTime> no way to edit?
<ogra> nope, indeed you can make a certain group own a directory and add the user to that group ...
<ogra> i was irritated by the "root" everywhere ... 
<ogra> you dont need root/sudo for proper permission settings :)
<iReALLyGotNoTime> I know the risk, but he is no threat he only knows html, and it is only for file transfer.
<iReALLyGotNoTime> ok let me ask about that then
<ogra> just make the directorys owned by a certain group and add the user to this group ... give the group rw access to the dirs and you are done ...
<iReALLyGotNoTime> can I create a user with ful 0777 right on all folders but only on all folders within /var/www/vhosts/*
<iReALLyGotNoTime> nothing higher than the vhosts directory
<ogra> you dont need 777
<ogra> mkdir /var/www/vhosts
<iReALLyGotNoTime> hold on :)
<ogra> addgroup webadmin
<iReALLyGotNoTime> not mkdir
<iReALLyGotNoTime> I have 64 domains in there
<iReALLyGotNoTime> it is live and running now
<ogra> chgrp webadmin /var/www/vhosts
<iReALLyGotNoTime> ok
<ogra> adduser whoever webadmin
<ogra> chmor g+rw /var/www/vhosts
<ogra> err
<ogra> chmod
<ogra> along these lines 
<ogra> you need to figure out the exact commands yourself, i'm very busy preparing a new flight release 
<iGotNoTime> sorry router issue :(
<iGotNoTime> ogra I thank you for your sense of protection on the 'root' matter :)
<ogra> :)
<iGotNoTime> to be honest I am very scared of anyone (including myself) using any full right access on directories higher than the /vhost
<iGotNoTime> I will attempt to implement your suggestion on the groups :)
<iGotNoTime> thanks for the detailed help
<iGotNoTime> I knew it was a bit technical :P
<ogra> you can also read up about wsftp and its chroot function ...
<iGotNoTime> I think it is somehow disabled on the host
<ogra> its a bit complicated, but guarantees you to lock in the user below /var/www
<iGotNoTime> we have tried that :)
<ogra> err
<ogra> i meant wu-ftpd not ws-ftp 
<iGotNoTime> ok :)
<iGotNoTime> Is there a way in SSH to "show" the permissions & groups a user belongs to and has? --I'm stepping away for the moment, but I will scroll up for the reply. Thanks in advance. :)
<Vego> Command 'groups' lists which group a user is in.
<Vego> Permissions are usually set on files, not users. 'ls -l' to see access settings of files and directories.
<iGotNoTime> ok thank you vego :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<iGotNoTime> I was told my chat logs are kept in .xchat
<iGotNoTime> but where do I find that?
<pips1> iGotNoTime, my xchat logs are in /home/user/.xchat2/xchatlogs (that's on a breezy machine :-)
<iGotNoTime> thank you :)
<pips1> :)
<DeMoNSeEd> helllo
<highvoltage> hi DeMoNSeEd 
<DeMoNSeEd> i wanted to ask
<highvoltage> shoot
<DeMoNSeEd> lol
<DeMoNSeEd> might not be popular, i tried D/l flight 4 last night, both live and install, i just tried the live
<DeMoNSeEd> it seems at least on the live, that GCompris kicks out a great deal
<highvoltage> yes, it's a known issue, resolved with a recent update.
<highvoltage> just a sec...
<DeMoNSeEd> or is that normal on the live cd, when you play the puzzle section, memory card game to be specific
<DeMoNSeEd> i sure hope they fix it, i'm this close to getting Edubuntu into about 20 schools
<highvoltage> yes, it has been fixed
<DeMoNSeEd> but Gcompris always failing (I had Gcompris probs in Breezy too) makes it hardf
<DeMoNSeEd> k..cool
<DeMoNSeEd> apart from that i might actually pull it off...i hopw
<highvoltage> it's bug number 33898
<DeMoNSeEd> darn, sorry bout typos
<highvoltage> (if you look it up on launchpad.net)
<DeMoNSeEd> i had filed a bug report too, i was told to
<highvoltage> what is your bug number?
<DeMoNSeEd> i didn't mark it  down, didn't realize i was supposed to
<DeMoNSeEd> no big thing
<highvoltage> no problem
<DeMoNSeEd> if we can get our duckies in a row, this could really be somethin
<ogra> DeMoNSeEd, you had problems with gcompris in breezy ? 
<ogra> highvoltage, Accepted ltsp 0.83 (source)
<ogra> Changes: 
<ogra>  ltsp (0.83) dapper; urgency=low
<ogra>  .
<ogra>    * fix typo in ltsp-server description
<ogra>    * fix indentation in ltsp-client.init
<ogra>    * fix indentation error in X_MODE code of ltsp-client-setup
<ogra>    * remove the unused configure_sound call in the ltsp-client-setup init script,
<ogra>      thats handled in ltsp-client since some time
<ogra>    * fixed ssh_known_hosts creation to not depend on ssh-keyscan
<ogra> so now the sshkeys should be there after install ...
<highvoltage> yay! :)
<ogra> we're ready for flight 5 once thats built :)
<ogra> all isos have sane sizes, so if nobody breaks something from the ubuntu side, we're safe
<DeMoNSeEd> i was talking to a kindergarten, teacher  last night about GCompris.................yes, i did, it comes up all right, but the puzzle sedtion games/the rubik's cube section, the memory card game, to be specific, if you made a match, the whole thing would kick out, i wasn't the only one, i ran into others with same prob
<highvoltage> great. i'll rsync as soon as it's ready and start testing the new flight the next day.
<ogra> DeMoNSeEd, in breezy ? 
<DeMoNSeEd> yes
<DeMoNSeEd> in Breezy
<ogra> i know there were probs in the beginning of the dapper cycle, but in breezy it worked fine in my tests
<DeMoNSeEd> i tried it on 5 different boxes, always same thing
<ogra> luckily we have yvesC here from time to time, he's one of the upstream developers ... so please file bugs if you discover anything in dapper, so we can fix it before release
<DeMoNSeEd> i filed it, mostly cause i was totally ignored, then rudely told to get lost in ubuntu room when i persisted asking about the prob
<ogra> DeMoNSeEd, if you have a edubuntu specific bug (i.e. edu software or ltsp stuff) assign it to me ...
<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com ...
<DeMoNSeEd> if i remember correctly ogra , i seem to remember is had something to do with something called gnomecanvas
<DeMoNSeEd> i might be wrong, but that seens to be what i remember seeing as a prob, when i tried to bring it up via term
<ogra> we'll unlikely fix it in breezy ... but its important to get all errors for dapper as long as we can solve them
<DeMoNSeEd> either was, GCompris looked great, till you player the memory card matching game, when 2 cards matched, the whole suite would die
<highvoltage> ogra: i know this might be a bit much to ask, but i would just like to know, is it likely that there'll be either language or session buttons in ldm for dapper?
<DeMoNSeEd> tell me bout it, when it did that card die thing it was when i was showing it to a school rep, i looked so stu*pd, as it kept doing it, he told me to come back when the program works, i felt so ....
<ogra> highvoltage, we already talked about that ...
<DeMoNSeEd> ok ogra , i'll remember to assign to you
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, we have. sorry...
<ogra> DeMoNSeEd, thanks, thats the way to get it fixed ;)
<DeMoNSeEd> you might tell ubuntu room proper , that you all are on same side though
<ogra> they should know that ...
<DeMoNSeEd> so should i wait till Dapper goes gold before i attempt another demo
<DeMoNSeEd> or you think flight 5 will be ok
<highvoltage> ogra: gtg. sorry for asking you twice about that ldm question. i loose track of certain issues sometimes (should install a local request tracker or something :) )
<highvoltage> goodnight, thanks for all your hard work.
<ogra> highvoltage, dont worry :)
<highvoltage> DeMoNSeEd: night to you too.
<ogra> night 
<DeMoNSeEd> nite
<DeMoNSeEd> take care
* Yagisan staggers off to bed. night all
<ogra> DeMoNSeEd, one issue was fixed past flight4, so that one is safe 
<DeMoNSeEd> k
<ogra> i dont know which issues are still hidden that nobody reported bugs about yet though
<DeMoNSeEd> yeah, i understand
<DeMoNSeEd> brb
<DeMoNSeEd> gotta run out for a while, i'll be checking in regular now
<DeMoNSeEd> thanks for the help ogra , take care
<ogra> thanks for coming :)
<ogra> bah
<iGotNoTime> Hey Ogra is the boot from LAN option worth the time for a single thin client or would it be just as easy to put the CD in and install?
<iGotNoTime> I mean is something worth learning or a waste of time just for my daughter's computer alone?
<ogra> what kind of machine is that ? 
<iGotNoTime> just a 900Mhz intel
<iGotNoTime> old computer I never used I gave to my girls
<ogra> memory and HD ?
<iGotNoTime> both lol... seriously I think 10GB and 512
<ogra> (900 MHz is fine for a standalone install)
<ogra> thats fine for a standalone workstation system ...
<iGotNoTime> yes, but that is what I mean, is the the better route for a single client?
<iGotNoTime> is that the better route***
<ogra> you only need to maintain one machine if you use it as thin client
<iGotNoTime> alot of time would go into setting up a thin client?
<ogra> see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes 
<iGotNoTime> I kinda wanna try, but don't wanna bite off more than I can chew
<iGotNoTime> especially since from CD it is only 30 minutes to running
<ogra> and the subpage: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<iGotNoTime> I am worried it coudl take me days LOL
<iGotNoTime> yes that is the page I am on now
<iGotNoTime> that is why I came in here , just to get some personal opinions on the matter :)
<ogra> if you used the default install of edubuntu, everything is preconfigured apart from the dhcp config
<ogra> just adjust the network settings, restart dhcpd and you are done
<iGotNoTime>  In /etc/dnsmasq.conf ?
<ogra> +(network settings in the config file)
<ogra> nope, see the wikipage
<iGotNoTime> sounds easy enough to play with :)
<ogra> you can mostly copy and paste the commands from there
<iGotNoTime> thanks :)
<iGotNoTime> ok
<ogra> but note that works only in the default install
<iGotNoTime> yes :)
#edubuntu 2006-03-15
<Burgwork> Seveas, you awake?
<Burgwork> Seveas, never mind
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: do you have any "new computer user intros"
<Burgundavia> ie, someone who has never touched a computer before and they are sitting before an Ubuntu/Edubuntu computer?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: not that i can think of :/
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: i do have some docs, but i didn't write them and they're a bit dodgy
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: but if you'd like to look at them i could send them to you (or at least a link)
<Burgundavia> I am looking at creating/modifying some as part of this project I am working on
<pips1> highvolt1ge, hi
<highvolt1ge> yo pips1 
<pips1> do you need to rush off in a min? ;-)
* pips1 is poking fun at highvolt1ge
<highvolt1ge> pips1: hehe. strangely enough. not! :)
<pips1> good
<pips1> :-)
<highvolt1ge> pips1: got the username/passwd?
<pips1> yes, thanks
<pips1> do you want to discuss via jabber?
* pips1 notices that highvolt1ge seems unavailable on jabber at the moment
<pips1> highvolt1ge, I am testing some modules for drupal and making notes as I go along
<pips1> (on my local test machine)
<pips1> at some point, I was thinking of putting up some points on a wiki page, so we can discuss certain ideas, what do you think?
* enyc wonders what clever improvements r.e. terminal-servicer in edubuntu / dapper have been going on ;-)
<highvolt1ge> pips1: yes, i'm here, just multitasking :)
* enyc wonders if the ltsp servers-client stuff now does sound over network ;-)
<highvolt1ge> pips1: i think that's a good idea, it makes it easier for others to contribute too
<pips1> yep!
<pips1> highvolt1ge, multitasking can be a drag... it's nice when one can focus on one thing. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury all the time... It seems that you are always busy with several things, eh?
<pips1> highvolt1ge, I'd like to discuss a few basic things with you, maybe we can make an "official" appointment without interruptions, maybe next week, what do you think?
<pips1> darn!
<pips1> all those timeouts, too :-/
<enyc> aoeuidhtns!
<pips1> enyc, you on dvorak keyboard layout?
<enyc> pips1: ',.pyfgcrl aoeuidhtns ;qjkxbmwvz  ;-)
<pips1> abh
<pips1> bah
* enyc on a clickykeyboard with dvorak ;-)
<JaneW> we need edubuntu testers for flight 5 please
<JaneW> *please*
<enyc> I thought.... flight-5 was going to be beta-1
<enyc> ?
<enyc> Ill do what I can ;-)
<enyc> but I want to know whats going on ;-)
<JaneW> it's being built pretty much now
<enyc> but I want to know if the ltsp etc. terminal services does sound-over-network ;-)
<enyc> do you have separate flight releases to ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu ??
<pips1> JaneW, last release, I only tested workstation install, this time, I'll try to test a server - thin client setup...
<pips1> JaneW, I tried with flight4 without much success
<JaneW> enyc: we will have one release announcement with links to the diff distro specifics
<pips1> enyc, how long did it take you to learn dvorak?
<enyc> pips1: errrrm
<enyc> pips1: well...
<enyc> pips1: bear in mind ive qwerty'ing since before I can remember ;-)
<enyc> pips1: and never learnt proper typing tochnique as suct
<pips1> enyc, same here.. oh, no, I learnt to touch time in secondary school...
<enyc> pips1: and got achey-fingers and so-on
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* enyc throws touch_time at pips1
<highvoltage> pips1: yep
<pips1> enyc, yeah, my wrists are starting to kill me and thus I'm also considering learning dvorak...
<enyc> pips1: erm... 2 weeks of frustration
<enyc> pips1: and months of getting used to it ;-)
<enyc> pips1: with lots of mental effort ;-)
<highvoltage> JaneW: i've tested about everything i can in flight4, i'm hungry for new edubuntu to test!
<enyc> pips1: but now ith doesn't annoy me
<enyc> and the re-leaning and the better-layout means I have got rid of my achey-finger problem
<pips1> enyc, good to hear you got on top of it!
<JaneW> highvoltage: cool stay tuned
<enyc> pips1: but it took me a long_time
<pips1> enyc, that's good encouragement, though
<enyc> and im not as fost as my original qwerty'ing
<enyc> but I can still use qwerty
<JaneW> pips1: hopefully you'll have more luck with flight 5
* JaneW looked at dvorak and got scared!
<enyc> JaneW: somebody I spoke to on #ubuntu+1 said the next prerelease would likely be 'beta-1' not 'flight-5'
* enyc pokes JaneW with a clickykeyboard
* enyc quote [1391406 1990-06-20] 
<pips1> enyc, is touch_time that program that forces you to pause in intervals?
<enyc> pips1: I dont know
<enyc> pips1: thats something you mentioned ;-)
* enyc quote [ < pips1> enyc, same here.. oh, no, I learnt to touch time in secondary school...] 
<enyc> ;-)
<pips1> ah!
<pips1> lol
<pips1> touch type
* enyc throws pyfgcrl's at pips1
* pips1 thinks enyc likes lobbing things around
<JaneW> enyc: look I am speaking to the guy building the thing, and they are calling it flight 5
<JaneW> so *whatever*
<enyc> pips1: in short, the dvorak sayout _is_ better but its a lot of work to learn... and your problems may just be due to incorrect tochnique ;-)
<enyc> JaneW: k ;-)
<JaneW> :P
<enyc> JaneW: it doesn't really matter ;-)
<JaneW> enyc: it's Mithrandir and infinty - feel free to argue about it with them ;)
<pips1> highvolt1ge, I'd like to discuss a few basic things with you, maybe we can make an "official" appointment without interruptions, maybe next week, what do you think?
<highvoltage> JaneW: can you confirm or deny rumours that dapper+1 is called edgy?
<JaneW> neither
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, any evening would be fine
* JaneW has heard nothing about dapper+1 yet
<pips1> what's evening for you (in UTC please) ;-)
* enyc lives in UTC(GMT) here... lol
<pips1> enyc, where in uk?
<enyc> pips1: in Swindon at the moment
<pips1> JaneW, I hope I get the server - thin client working with flight5... I'm not an total newb, but some stuff about networking is still over my head...
<pips1> highvoltage, how about next monday evening, 5 pm UTC?
<highvoltage> JaneW: planning to come to 12plein next week?
<highvoltage> that's.... 7pm my time.
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, perfect.
<pips1> highvoltage, ok, it's an appointment!
<highvoltage> pips1: cool :)
<pips1> :)
<enyc> pips1: ?pips1 in UK?
<pips1> switzerland
<enyc> pips1: kk ;-)
* pips1 goes back to testing drupal modules
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<enyc> moo de beep
<JaneW> highvoltage: yeah I guess
<JaneW> highvoltage: I need to collect my headset
<highvoltage> JaneW: give me a heads-up, and i'll install an edubuntu machine, if you want to check it out
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok, great :)
<highvoltage> pips1: the basic site is fixed now :)
<highvoltage> pips1: we now have a default site with spreadfirefox that works
<highvoltage> pips1: i had to re-install drupal, the one the was on was 4.5.7 :/
<highvoltage> pips1: but now we're on 4.6.5
<highvoltage> pips1: will give you more of an update later...
<pips1> highvoltage, good news!
<highvoltage> pips1: erm... bad news...
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> pips1: the old database didn't work so nicely with the new version
<highvoltage> pips1: znarl is going to re-create the database, and then i'll populate it with the new version
<highvoltage> pips1: either way, our biggest problems have been sorted out
<highvoltage> :)
<pips1> highvolt1ge, thanks for keeping me posted :-)
<highvolt1ge> pips1: no problemo, we'll have the db working and populated before the end of the weekend :)
<pips1> highvolt1ge, once the basic setup is done (drupal-out-of-the-box), we'll discuss what add-ons (modules) to use. We can make a start to discuss this on monday eve. There are one or two decisions that best need to be decided early on, to avoid headaches that come with disabling and re-jigging stuff later (I'll hope to explain this better on monday)
<highvolt1ge> pips1: ok :)
<ogra> highvolt1ge, the script only checks if SOUND is filled with *anything* :)
<highvolt1ge> ogra: aaah, so "SOUND = false" would also start it? :)
<ogra> yes :)
<ogra> i need to fix that i guess :)
<highvolt1ge> heh. that might be confusing fos someone trying to disable sound.
<ogra> just dont set it 
<highvolt1ge> are there other lts.conf tags that work the same?
<ogra> no need to disable it explicitly
<highvolt1ge> i realise that.
<highvolt1ge> from an end-user perspective, they might set it to "n" or to "false", if it was previously set, and they want to disable it.
<ogra> yep
<iGotNoTime> Is it normal for mounted drives to become unmounted on reboot?
<iGotNoTime> I mean it would be no big deal me if I could remember the steps each time
<iGotNoTime> But this is the 4th time my drives are not showing up again
<ogra> remove the "noauto" in their fstab line and they are mounted on boot
<ogra> JaneW, ping
<JaneW> ogra: pong (on phone to flint)
<ogra> hahaha
<JaneW> don't laugh!
<ogra> argh
<ogra> the install CD is broken 
<JaneW> NO!
<ogra> damned, yesterdays worked
<JaneW> bugger - what can we do?
<iGotNoTime> why is noauto in the line?
<ogra> JaneW, i need to upload a ned edubuntu-meta or a new ltsp package 
<ogra> *new
<iGotNoTime> that makes as much sense as disabling all video cards on boot ?
<ogra> ldm isnt on the CD apparently ... THISGODAMMNEDDEBIANCRAP !
<iGotNoTime> LOL
<JaneW> ogra: so can we fix it?
<ogra> JaneW, sure if nobody uploads anything during the day
<iGotNoTime> anyone here use * ?
<crimsun> EPARSE
<ogra> JaneW, my problem is, if the archive freeze is over, the CD will break again ... so we need to be fast ...
<iGotNoTime> Asterisk * ?
<JaneW> ogra: ok phone call over, what can I do?
<ogra> nothing
<ogra> i pushed the seedchange ... 
<ogra> now i have to wait 20 min until the change shows up here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/server
<ogra> then i can fix the metapackage and upload it ....
<ogra> then we have to wait 2h until the package hits the archive
<ogra> then i have to build a new iso 
<enyc> moo de beep
<ogra> then i have to download 3 isos again ... 
<enyc> ?what is the 'seedchange'?
<ogra> test and approve them ...
<ogra> then its 7am and we have flight 5
<enyc> wooot!
<enyc> ;-)
* enyc meeps happily at ogra
<enyc> so... flight-5 to be fossowed by beta-1-at-a-later-date ?
<ogra> enyc, seeds are the lists of packages we genereate packages like edubuntu-desktop from
<JaneW> ogra: ouch
<enyc> ogra: hrrmmm... like dependant-packages etc. ;-)
<ogra> JaneW, YES
<ogra> JaneW, i tested the full set two days ago and all was fine ...
* ogra had planned other stuff for the day :(
<JaneW> why does this always happen before the flights? :(
<ogra> no idea 
<ogra> last flight was the worst ...
<crimsun> better to have "bad" luck now and great luck for final
<ogra> with the buildds on and off all the time 
<JaneW> ogra: can anyone help you?
<enyc> I remember pointing out that 'ubuntu-standard' (or something similar) for breezy had a silly duplicate-dependancy on bind9-host (already dependand on dnsutils) and why this was sillyy ... and Matt_Zimmerman said 'I've made the appropriate changes to the seed;'
<ogra> JaneW, anyway, do we have an announcement prepared ? 
<JaneW> or speed things up etc?
<JaneW> ogra: erk, no!
<ogra> nobody can speed it up ... sadly ...
<JaneW> lmao - look what I found.. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/flint
<enyc> So... the seed... is a database that is used to autogenerate  metapackages ?
<ogra> its a bzr archive ... 
<ogra> these are the edubuntu seeds: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-dapper/
<ogra> i'm waiting for ldm to show up in the server seed now ...
<ogra> JaneW, did you add the text :P ?
<enyc> bzr ??
<ogra> a versioning system ... like cvs ir svn ... the tool we use for all ubuntu/edubuntu development
<enyc> kk
<ogra> s/ir/or/
<JaneW> ogra: no ;)
<JaneW> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight5Announcement
<enyc> Woot ... serial mouse support works out of the box (e.g. older machines as thinclients ??)
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ok that pages needs to be editted!
<ogra> not out of the box though
<ogra> but very easy to set up
<JaneW> so far it;s flight 4 announcement with the 4's turned into 5s
<enyc> Aah ok
<enyc> JaneW: ;-)
<JaneW> ogar: so what's new..?
<ogra> JaneW, i guess i'll have much time while watching boring installs
<ogra> not much 
<ogra> most noticeable is that the bug that made you run ltsp-update-sshkeys after install is gone
<ogra> all other stuff are bugfixes that wont be massively seen by users
<ogra> and a lot of debian features were merged (one of them is the reason why i have to rebuild the CD )
<enyc> ooh... what debian features ;-) ?
<JaneW> yay to item one
<enyc> What would be useful is a list of things to test and look-out-for  in flight5 testing ;-)
<ogra> yeah ...
<ogra> currently all thats intresting is if the install finishes properly ... :)
<enyc> kk
<ogra> but you are right, i'll make a list
<JaneW> ogra: I strippped the announcement a bit more
<enyc> ill have a go when I can ;-)
<ogra> ok
<JaneW> ogra: TY
<JaneW> ping if you need me
<ogra> will do
<JaneW> or phone like flint does ;)
<enyc> ''Edubuntu Flight 5, the 4th milestone CD'' -- ?is this right?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its the 5th indeed :)
<ogra> good catch, feel free to edit it 
<enyc> ERROR in JaneW ;-)
* enyc thinks... I dont have a edubuntu wiki login
<ogra> get one ;)
<enyc> Can I be 'enyc' ? ;-)
<ogra> sure, why not 
<JaneW> fixed
<ogra> thanks :)
<enyc> ''Your registration URL has been sent to''  [...] 
<ogra> Accepted edubuntu-meta 0.60 (source)
<ogra> there we go
<ogra> now 2h of waiting
<enyc> ogra: so what does the 'Given Name' 'Family Name'  do?
<enyc> it has 'Display Name' too...
<ogra> first name last name and the nick you want to be seen as
<enyc> ogra: so... ?what does the first/last _do_ in lanchpad  if a 'Display Name' has been given?
<ogra> you dont need to fill the given and family names ...
<enyc> Well fine... I just wanted to know what those _did_ ;-)
<ogra> the display name will be the name youre shown with to the public
<enyc> yes... and tho other 2 do ... ?
<ogra> no idea  ... they are there :)
<enyc> kk ;-)
<enyc> thx ;-)
* enyc registered now
<ogra> i dont think they do anything, but i'm not sure :)
<enyc> kk no matter ;-)
* enyc meep moops at spacey
* enyc wonders if spacey is anything todo with spacey from #adamantix
<spacey> enyc: yeah same
<enyc> spacey: aoeuidhtns! ;-)
<spacey> but i haven' been in #adamantix for a long time
<spacey> so what are you doing here :P
<enyc> no matter ;-)
<ogra> building flight 5
<spacey> enyc: anyway i remember you :P
<freeflying> ogra: ping
<ogra> freeflying, pong
<ogra> freeflying, did you talk to JaneW ?
<freeflying> ogra: I can not take part in the i18n sprint ,due to the visa
<ogra> gah, ok
<freeflying> ogra: and told her 
* ogra curses buerocracy
<freeflying> :)
<freeflying> a guy from kongkong will go , and he also familiar with scim stuff
<freeflying> s/kongkong/hongkong
<ogra> ah, cool
<ogra> gald we have someone :)
<ogra> *glad
<freeflying> ogra: we can do what we can in irc 
* enyc thinks... Beauracracy
<ogra> JaneW, gah, we need to rework all artwork, the new ubuntu colors look horrible with our colors
<jsgotangco> gahhh
<ogra> this strange apricot for window frames and selected items makes me want to vomit in compyny with our wallpaper
<jsgotangco> ogra, http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/110500695/
<ogra> edubuntu ?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> cool ! :)
<jsgotangco> this was during the conference today
<jsgotangco> they had 2 labs with edubuntu for the workshops
<jsgotangco> for a conference down south, that is impressive
<jsgotangco> ogra, gahhh this ubuntulooks look horrible for gartoon
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> we need to change the gtkrc and get back sane colors
<ogra> (i'll just switch back to the human ones)
<jsgotangco> yeah
* enyc really wants to kno howto change the green/blue link colours in firefox..... (and mail display colour in thunderbird)
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> ciao
<Petaris> ogra: Which local apps were you using on the clients?
<ogra> Petaris, local apps are not officially supported yet
<Petaris> right, but you said that you were running some right?
<ogra> nope
<Petaris> I want to play with it for my server rebuild this summer
<Petaris> oh
<ogra> i guess you mix me up with highvoltage
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> he runs several labs, even with fat clients and local apps
<Petaris> ok, I will check with him
<enyc> meeeep ;-)
<Burgwork> enyc, hmm?
<enyc> Burgwork: moo de beep ;-)
<linuxboy> hi
<Burgwork> salut linuxboy 
<linuxboy> I'm looking for ltsp help and was directed here
<linuxboy> this the right place to be ?
<ogra_> yep
<linuxboy> cool
<linuxboy> so, I've setup ltsp on my PC
<linuxboy> and I want another PC to PXE boot
<ogra_> the ubuntu ltsp ?
<linuxboy> but it doesn't support PXE booting
<linuxboy> ogra_: correct
<linuxboy> how can I make a boot floppy?
<linuxboy> I tried http://www.rom-o-matic.net
<linuxboy> but I'm not sure which image to get
<ogra_> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<ogra_> that lists all the options you need :)
<linuxboy> aaah
<linuxboy> i was reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
<ogra_> thats not really appropriate for edubuntu (even if it explains the basics)
<linuxboy> well... I'm not doing edubuntu
<ogra_> ah, k
<ogra_> then the Howto is right 
<linuxboy> just not detailed enough
<linuxboy> (the PXE floppy part)
<linuxboy> (but it doesn't have to be)
<ogra_> imho it hides the simplicissity of setting up ltsp on ubuntu ...
<ogra_> you can shrink it down to three lines to get  a fine working ltsp server 
<linuxboy> true
<linuxboy> i like longer howtos
<linuxboy> k, lets try this boot floppy...
<linuxboy> nope didn't work
<ogra_> whats the error ? 
<ogra_> it doesnt pick up an ip ?
<linuxboy> no
<linuxboy> just a bunch of crap
<ogra_> crap like ? 
<linuxboy> I dunno
<linuxboy> numbers and dots and stuff
<linuxboy> I'll try again in the morning
<linuxboy> this PXE floppy stuff is teh suck
* enyc can test out flight-5 whatnot later...
<enyc> whenis flight-5 cds available? ;-)
<ogra_> you need to give a bit more precise info 
<ogra_> dots and numbers doesnt tell me much 
* enyc knows what ogra_ means... ;-(
<ogra_> normally there is an error message anywhere 
<linuxboy> nope
<linuxboy> none
<linuxboy> I don't get any dhcp lease either
<linuxboy> its like, before PXE starts
<enyc> aaah
<linuxboy> and no, there isn't an error message
<enyc> network card boot bios.....
<linuxboy> dunno
<linuxboy> I'm booting off a PXE floppy
<enyc> aah hrrm
* enyc has e100 cards that can boot from dhcp/PXE....
<ogra_> right floppy for the card ? is the dhcp server running on the server ? 
<linuxboy> I'll try another NIC or something
<linuxboy> ogra_: look at this list: http://www.rom-o-matic.net/5.4.1/
<linuxboy> look for the rtl8139
<linuxboy> there are tons
<ogra_> did you check with the pci id as described ?
<linuxboy> dhcpd is running
<ogra_> there may be tons, but only one with your pci id :)
<linuxboy> as described where?
<ogra_> in the howto 
<linuxboy> where in the howto?
<ogra_> at the top
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> oh
<ogra_> ok
<linuxboy> yeeesss?
<ogra_> make that lspci -n 
<ogra_> that will give you vendor and device id as used on rom-o-matic
<linuxboy> -n sucks
<linuxboy> -nv is better imho
<linuxboy> actually, nope
<linuxboy> that sucks too
<linuxboy> nah
<linuxboy> it still sucks
<linuxboy> on this PC (the server)
<linuxboy> I have this:
<linuxboy> 0000:02:0e.0 Ethernet controller: National Semiconductor Corporation DP83815 (MacPhyter) Ethernet Controller
<linuxboy> and
<linuxboy> 0000:02:0e.0 0200: 100b:0020
<linuxboy> oh
<linuxboy> sorry
<linuxboy> yes, thats right
<ogra_> lspci -n |grep $(lspci |grep Ethernet|awk '{print $1}')|awk '{print $3}'
<ogra_> copy and paste that ;)
<ogra_> shoudl give you  100b:0020
<ogra_> :)
<linuxboy> yeah
<ogra_> great now look for the right floppy based on the IDs
<linuxboy> well... that howto isn't very clear on that
<linuxboy> needs updating
<ogra_> set the options as described 
<ogra_> yep
<linuxboy> I'm going to bed
<linuxboy> I'll try in the morning
<ogra_> its already several months old 
<linuxboy> night
<ogra_> night
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
#edubuntu 2006-03-16
<iGotNoTime> You know this seems very unstable maybe you guys can help figure out why
<iGotNoTime> First I lost my Gnome-terminal and only xterm would work
<iGotNoTime> then I lost the drive that were mounted while I was out to lunch
<iGotNoTime> the system time is set not to synch yet changes at all hours
* Burgwork refrains from making jokes about "out to lunch" :)
<iGotNoTime> and lastly I have now lost the add programs option
<iGotNoTime> the things that are lost flash momentarily but no GUI
<Burgwork> have you confirmed that it is not hardware?
<iGotNoTime> Burgwork, you may laugh but I listened to an MP3 went to lunch and all drive shortcuts were gone
<iGotNoTime> disappeared from my desktop
<iGotNoTime> how do I know if it is hardware?
<iGotNoTime> why would hardware make it say Gnome-terminal is not found?
<Burgwork> random things crashing might be
<Burgwork> you are running 5.10, no?
<iGotNoTime> yes 5.10
<iGotNoTime> even Synaptic does nothing when I click on it
<Burgwork> is this a stock install?
<iGotNoTime> that is a core feature of this OS is it not?
<iGotNoTime> yes completely
<iGotNoTime> I only installed Skype
<Burgwork> is this a workstation or thinclient?
<iGotNoTime> but drives, clock and terminal was gone before Skype came in
<iGotNoTime> Workstation
<iGotNoTime> Burgwork, no big deal. I thank you for allowing me to rant
<iGotNoTime>  :)
<iGotNoTime> Have a nice night everyone! :)
<linuxboy> ogra_
<z2274743> hi there
<Burgundavia> salut z2274743
<z2274743> hey, im new to ubuntu and edubuntu =)
<Burgundavia> well, welcome
<z2274743> just wondering - is there any way of running both ubuntu and edubuntu on the same machine, and having 2 user accounts - one for adults and one for children?
<z2274743> because that would be very cool
<linuxboy> anybody here know anything about PXE booting for ltsp?
<enyc> xoop
<linuxboy> what?
<enyc> linuxboy: ?does you macihne definittyly PXE boot okay from another PXE boot server that definitely already works ?
<Burgundavia> z2274743: yes
<linuxboy> enyc: I'm trying to get a PC to boot with a PXE boot floppy
<Burgundavia> z2274743: they are basically the same
<enyc> linuxboy: I know that
<enyc> linuxboy: Id try a different combination of network-card/machine to boot from the network
<linuxboy> enyc: I can't
<enyc> linuxboy: or try a different boot server
<enyc> and see what changes... process of elimination ;-)
<linuxboy> I can't
<enyc> well vmmmmgh
<z2274743> what are the differences between ub and edub then?  just the apps that are pre-installed, and the skins?
<Burgundavia> z2274743: both of those
<Burgundavia> theme is the word
<z2274743> themes, sorry...  are you involved?  im interested in getting involved in some way
<enyc> z2274743: there is a different base package installed which installs a different base set of packages.......
<linuxboy> enyc: in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf I have: "filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";"
<linuxboy> enyc: but /ltsp/pxelinux.0 doesn't exist
<z2274743> ok, so thats the only difference?  thats cool
<enyc> linuxboy: thats probably relatife t a tftp root or something
<linuxboy> enyc: where is the tftp root?
<Burgundavia> z2274743: edubuntu also includes ltsp
<enyc> z2274743: ubuntu kubuntu edubuntu ubuntu all use the same package store....
<Burgundavia> enyc: but edubuntu and ubuntu both use GNOME
<enyc> linuxboy: im not really familitar with pxe booting
<z2274743> ok, great, thanks
<enyc> Burgundavia: I know that [????] 
<Burgundavia> enyc: just wanted to make certain you didn't confuse z2274743
<enyc> linuxboy: erm paste you dhcpd.conf somewhere...
<z2274743> thank you.  do you know of any way i can get involved?
<linuxboy> enyc: I thought you didn't know ltsp
<enyc> linuxboy: Ill try these things after dapper released ;-)
<z2274743> im using dapper now, seems to work great
<enyc> I thought flight-5 was going to be built shortly...
<Burgundavia> enyc: delayed due to an error with espresso on ppc
<Burgundavia> z2274743: http://www.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu
<enyc> Burgundavia: aah ok....
<z2274743> burg: thanks.  how are you involved now?
<Burgundavia> z2274743: I do documentaition, marketing, hot air producing
<z2274743> b: nice one
<z2274743> b: thanks for that.  im off now
<enyc> Burgundavia: ?what do you know about plans for openoffice.org ver 2.0.2 and flight-5?  [http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/flight5 mentions openoffice.org 2.0.2 but thats not in the package database on packages.ubuntu.com] 
<Burgundavia> enyc: 2.0.2 should be there. It got uploaded yesterday I believe
<enyc> Burgundavia: afher the Upstream Version Freeze... but very sensible!
<enyc> Burgundavia: have all the problems with AMD64 etc. gone away since vor 2.0 upstream ?
<Burgundavia> enyc: .0.2 is very much a bug fix release
<Burgundavia> no idea
<enyc> Burgundavia: no matter ;-)
<enyc> '0000
<Tachyon[] > hi
#edubuntu 2006-03-17
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra_] :  Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: March 08 at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes |
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra_] :  Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: March 08 at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | Flight 5 is out, grab it while its hot http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-5/
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<_epp> what is edubuntu, why not just get ubuntu?
<highvoltage> *channel ping*
<channel> highvoltage, pong
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> hi ogra (aka channel)
<ogra> heh, hi+
<highvoltage> how are you doing, ogra?
<ogra> fine, slacking ....
<ogra> its sunday :)
<enyc> ;-)
<enyc> ;-)
* enyc *echo reply*
<enyc> _epp edubuntu is a free software platform for schools ;-)
<enyc> different base package set etc.
<enyc> oops muddling things up ;-( screen being silly
<enyc> having to perss ctrl-l to redraw... hrrm ;-(
* enyc wants to know what has happened r.e. mdz's delay-6-week-request
<ogra> that wasnt from mdz ... 
<ogra> sabdfl is the guy :)
<enyc> aah
<enyc> sabdbl=mdz ??
<ogra> enyc, mdz == matt zimmermann ... sabdfl == mark shuttleworth
<enyc> oops
<enyc> ;-)
<juliux> ogra, do you have seen the tv spot about ubuntu edubuntu?
<ogra> not yet ... they'll repeat it tonight ...
<ogra> good work :)
<juliux> http://www.kram-hochladen.de/index.php?p=download&9ca461683ad=ZmlsZXMvMjAwNjMxMi8wLjIwNTU0OTAwXzExNDIxNTQyNzIv
<simon__> hi could someone reccomend a link for a beginner to set up ltsp cheers
<Tachyon[] > hi
<init> please sign the petition http://www.petitiononline.com/vorb123/petition.html
#edubuntu 2006-03-18
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<konfuzed> hey there, can any one tell me if this is true http://digg.com/linux_unix/Administrator_root_password_readable_in_cleartext_on_Ubuntu_Breezy
<Burgundavia> konfuzed: yes it is and it has been fixed
<Burgundavia> konfuzed: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-262-1
<JaneW> highvoltage: you're on planet! ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: :)
(jsgotangco/#edubuntu) but even people in a mission need to rest
(jsgotangco/#edubuntu) ciao
<ogra> ciao 
<Petaris> ogra: ping
<ogra> Petaris, pong
<Petaris> Does that flight 5 cd have the ltsp stuff?
<Petaris> I'm think I am going to try to rebuild that server today
<Petaris> Its a snowday so no teachers/students
<ogra> sure, all isos have the ltsp stuff 
<Petaris> ok, anything broken/not implemented yet that I should know about?
<ogra> ppc has some issues ...
<Petaris> Should I ust the x86_64 install?
<ogra> so if you run a ppc server with ppc clients, you need to run ltsp-update-kernels post install
<Petaris> dual opteron server w/ x86 clients
<ogra> you want x86 clients ? 
<Petaris> ?
<ogra> then you need some manual work afterwards ... we can only install a amd64 chroot since there are no i386 packages on the CD 
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> So x86 is the way to go for a fast install config?
<ogra> so wipe /opt/ltsp/amd64 and run ltsp-build-client --arch i386 
<Petaris> oh, so not much work
<Petaris> will there be issues with the software?  Openoffice, firefox, etc by doing that?
<ogra> thats additional to the https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup 
<ogra> flash wont work
<Petaris> oh, need flash
<ogra> macromedia doesnt offer binarys
<Petaris> x86 it is
<ogra> you can build a x86 chroot and run firefox from there with dchroot
<ogra> but thats a bit of work
<Petaris> yeah, I have limited time on this
<ogra> chroot != client chroot here
<Petaris> it has to be working by tomarrow
<ogra> ugh
<Petaris> right
<ogra> take the i386 build then ...
<Petaris> I can do a proper build in the summer after school is out
<ogra> not sure if that uses the second CPU though
<Petaris> but k12ltsp is having lots of issues and I need to reslove them
<ogra> (best to ask in #ubuntu-kernel)
<Petaris> ogra: can't I just build the kernel manually?
<ogra> i know there are some ways to cheat with an amd64 kernel under i386
<ogra> #ubuntu-kernel knows :)
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> asking now
<Petaris> ok, seems it will work
<Petaris> grr, why is my download going so slow
<Petaris> ogra: Does edubuntu use lvm by default?
<ogra> nope, optional 
<Petaris> good
<Petaris> I wish this iso would download faster
<senior> i ll try
<ogra> just keep one around in the future and use rsync instead :)
<ogra> it will only sync the binary changes
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> but the one I have is _very_ old
<Petaris> its from last summer
<Petaris> :/
<Petaris> are the downloads capped at the download server?
<ogra> ah, yes, that wont gain you anything
<ogra> nope
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> and I have 3 Mb here
<Petaris> why am I stuck at 74.6 Kb
<Petaris> :/
<ogra> i have only 786k here... so i cant confirm it works faster
<Petaris> hrm
<senior> ?
<Petaris> senior?
<senior> hallo petaris
<senior> :/
<Petaris> hi
<senior> leave
<C_J_Pro> On a thin client setup, can each PC still use it's local CD Drives, USB ports, etc?
<ogra> not out of the box, no
<C_J_Pro> either way, thin clients wouldn't work for my school's systems
<C_J_Pro> we need to have about 750 PCs all running off of one server
<ogra> 750 ? 
<C_J_Pro> actually, school district
<ogra> that cant work, unless you have a house to put the server in :)
<ogra> i.e. it must be a huuge server
<C_J_Pro> I realize that
<C_J_Pro> My district is looking into open source alternatives
<ogra> 100-128MB per client ...
<C_J_Pro> I was thinking about edubuntu
<ogra> you will rather need a cluster ... 
<C_J_Pro> but any linux would require massive amounts of work to get it satisfactory for my school >_<
<ogra> but edubuntu isnt ready for district use yet ...
<ogra> its aimed at a single classroom ...
<C_J_Pro> ah, ok
<ogra> you can easily size it bigger, but a whole district will be a lot of extra work to put in there
<C_J_Pro> I should make a ubuntu based distro for district wide use
<C_J_Pro> whole lot extra?
<ogra> its planned for edubuntu 
<C_J_Pro> My school district is insane when it comes to their requirements
<ogra> you'll need clustering ... a network wide centralized user management ....
<ogra> something that balances the load 
<C_J_Pro> I was thinking of a 3 server setup
<C_J_Pro> Public server, for website and email
<ogra> its all on the TODO for edubuntu at some point
<C_J_Pro> Data server, no need for explanation here
<C_J_Pro> Private server, User home folders
<ogra> but currently we're trying to get the basics *perfect* before we move on to the next size :)
<C_J_Pro> btw, here's an idea
<C_J_Pro> put in a feature to opt out from installing games during installation
<ogra> you can talk to neuralis in #ltsp, he has some experience with openssi clusters with ubuntu ltsp
<C_J_Pro> quite a few school districts have problems with students playing games, lol
<ogra> games are an essential part of edubuntu 
<C_J_Pro> I'm talking about the older agegroup
<C_J_Pro> most schools don't utilize games to teach students
<ogra> it was requested by all teachers and school admins we had at the edubuntu summit when we made the app selection
<C_J_Pro> ah, ok
<ogra> i agree that it shouldnt be there for higher grades ...
<ogra> but you can easily uninstall them 
<C_J_Pro> but the lower grades is where they come in handy
<C_J_Pro> Actually, couldn't authentication be done through a MySQL Database for logging in on clients?
<ogra> you usually do it through ldap and kerberor
<ogra> kerberos
<C_J_Pro> ah, ok
<Petaris> This is going to be a long day
<ogra> whats wrong ? 
<Petaris> things are taking longer then expected
<Petaris> :/
<Petaris> I wish this download would finish
<Petaris> and I am waiting for files to finish coping off from the current k12ltsp install
<ogra> ah
<Petaris> I wonder if ReadNaturally will work under wine
<Petaris> I dout it
<ogra> its a matter of luck ...
<Petaris> yeah
<Petaris> otherwise its plan B
<Petaris> vmware player
<ogra> yep
<StR> Hi there..
<StR> where can I get a copy of edubutnu drapper?
<ogra> see the topic ;)
<StR> ok...
<ogra> flight 5 was released on the weekend ... its the latest tested alpha release we have ...
<StR> ogra: what does LVM mean?
<StR> ogra: at the partition stage?
<ogra> logical volume manager
<StR> ogra: and what is that?
<ogra> it sits below your filesystem and makes it possible to add physical volumes (disks) to resize a partition 
<ogra> its totally transparent to the user/admin ...
<ogra> i.e. if you add a 100GB disk to your machine and have /home on an lvm, you can just add these 100GB to /home easily
<StR> IC.... ok.. thanks
<ogra>  /home is on a logical volume in this case
<StR> how can I see if I downloaded the drapper or the breezu iso?
<StR> no... I found it.. sorry
<highvoltage> hi!
<highvoltage> anyone else had problems connecting to freenode earlier?
<Petaris> Hello highvoltage
<Petaris> not me
<highvoltage> hi Petaris 
<ogra> hey highvoltage i have a jabber account i didnt use for about a year ...
<highvoltage> ogra: yeah I wanted to contact you over jabber since i couldn't connect to freenode. i get the feeling JaneW had the same problem
<highvoltage> pips1: guess what, i can access spock too now :) i think we had some international bandwidth issues this side.
<Petaris> darnit this download still isn't done
<highvoltage> slow downloads--
<Petaris> the dapper iso
<Petaris> :/
<Petaris> I'm stuck at 54.9 Kb for some reason
<littlepaul> ping ogra 
<ogra> pong littlepaul 
<littlepaul> ogra, need to talk you in your role as an association member :) - just a few minutes #edubuntu-de
<ogra> ok
<highvoltage> ogra: busy right now?
<ogra> highvoltage, got an interview in #edubuntu-de, apart from that no ... :)=
<highvoltage> ok, i have nothing urgent, it can wait.
* highvoltage changes mind (want to go to bed a bit earlier)
<highvoltage> ogra: have you announced flight5 on edubuntu-devel yet? perhaps i just missed it...
<highvoltage> ogra: i don't know if many people know that edubuntu flight5 is also available yet
<ogra> highvoltage, the changes were to minor, i decided against a separate announcement this time
<highvoltage> ok, understandable.
<highvoltage> ogra: also, i think we should split edubuntu-devel to have an edubuntu list ast well (normal users list)
<highvoltage> i've found that some people don't want to join -devel because either they think it's just for developers,
<highvoltage> or they think there'll be too much technical talk on there, and then they don't want to join.
<highvoltage> i think an edubuntu list will encourage more people to join.
<ogra> i dont think we have enough subscribers to part it yet
<ogra> we might rename it though
<highvoltage> i think the reason why we don't have lots of subscribers is for that same reason
<highvoltage> yes, renaming might be a better idea
<highvoltage> then we could split later on, when it gets too big
<highvoltage> although, you'll be on the normal list anyway, so there'd be little use for a -devel list :)
<highvoltage> i'll bring it up again at the wednesday meeting.
<ogra> i've got 60 mailing lists currently ...
<ogra> and i'd like to rather lower the number than raise it :)
<highvoltage> i've got about the same number.
* Burgwork recently cut his consumption of mailing list down
<highvoltage> my problem isn't so much the ammount of mails coming in, but the amount of folders i have in my male client(s)
<ogra> for me its both 
<ogra> between 400 and 600 mails/day
<highvoltage> my mails are more though, it's just over a thousand a day. but i tend to subscribe to way more mailing lists than i can really read.
<highvoltage> i like to keep them for reference purposes too.
<highvoltage> anyway, /me moves to bed.
<highvoltage> thanks ogra, talk to you again...
<highvoltage> goodnight!
<konfuzed> hhhhmmmmmmm   where do i go to change the desktop theme to soem other buntu theme
<ogra> in the theme selector ? 
<konfuzed> oh wow there is a theme selector
<konfuzed> where do I find that
<konfuzed> ooooooooo system preferences theme
<konfuzed> would this theme selector include software package changes in the way that the edubuntu theme also has additional education software packages included
<konfuzed> if I change my theme from edubuntu to kubuntu, will the educational software be removed
<ogra> nope
<ogra> and thats not a theme, you install a complete desktop if you use kubuntu 
<Petaris> This damn iso still isn't downloaded
<tsurc> just read a post on edubuntu-devel >(we use a "booter" machine that just performs the boot
<tsurc> > functions and then directs to the appropriate server, running the
<tsurc> > Symbiont program with it's easy Webmin interface). 
<tsurc> hows this done?
<tsurc> still looking for options for load balancing you see.
<ogra> ah, i just answered your mail :)
<ogra> please dont use ltsp-utils at all with edubuntu :)
<ogra> it will surely trash your setup
<ogra> about the bootserver stuff, you can just use tftp, dhcp and the nfs root from one machine and log in on another one, you just need to specify the SERVER in lts.conf ...
<tsurc> was a standard install. I was just trying to diagnose the problem as per wiki.ltsp.org
<ogra> ah...
<tsurc> either way sound doesn't work out of my box.... yet ;).
<ogra> we use the muecow spec from ltsp.org (in fact we helped developing it) with our own implementation
<ogra> did you remove the spaces from the SOUND=Y ?
<ogra> getltsconf (the tool that reads the lts.conf) seems to have issues with spaces, i have on my todo list to check that ...
<ogra> its the only tool we use from ltsp.org
<ogra> oh, or try SOUND=True 
<ogra> might be that it doesnt interpret Y as boolean value ...
* ogra would love to get rid of that strictness of getltsconf ... really
<ogra> [default]        X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
<ogra>                 SOUND=True
<tsurc> ah..... spot the space...and case
<ogra> thats what i used for flight5 testing and it worked fine
<tsurc> mine had both spaces and a lower case y
<ogra> i'll still have a lot docs to write :)
<tsurc> I'll check that out tomorrow. Should brighten my day up if it works.
<ogra> but since it looks like we'll delay the release by 6 weeks and edubuntu is on schedule i should have plenty of time to even write books :)
<Petaris> ogra: That download _just_ finished
<Petaris> looks like the rebuild will have to wait for another day
<ogra> if you have an opportunity to come here from work, try that, its way easier to debug via IRC than via mail
<tsurc> I'll try it on the spare server we have with dual Gb Nics and bonding then. That'll be good
<ogra> Petaris, sad ...
<Petaris> ogra: thanks for the help earilier
<ogra> Petaris, no problem ... :)
<Petaris> I'm off for now
<Petaris> later
<tsurc> I've tried. I think there is an issue with our school firewall. I'll look into it
<tsurc> At least on the mail I can look through and easily search problems and the like
<ogra> there are web based clients, but if you cant get through, mail is a good fallback
<ogra> this channel is logged, you can easily serach the logs as well :)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/
<tsurc> Oooooo....... new shiny flint. Me happy :)
<ogra> you know flint ? 
<tsurc> yeh makes fire
<ogra> lol
<ogra> i thought you mean paul flint :)
<tsurc> sorry british humour
<ogra> one of our users
<ogra> we germans usually cope with that :)
<tsurc> My house s like 30mins away from the school and round here its like the film Deliverence
<spacey> ogra: having nightmares? :P
#edubuntu 2006-03-19
<benjamindaines>  Hello, I'm having some trouble getting my Mac to connect to an SMB share on my ubuntu box.  I type in the IP address and it brings up the window to type in the Workgroup, Name, and PassWord (I enter in my username and password and click OK) then I gives me an error saying that the user name or password is incorrect.  I have tried many times so I know it's not me typeing badly.  Any ideas?  --Much Thanks
<benjamindaines> Here are the steps I have taken in setting up the SMB share:
<benjamindaines> First I right click the folder and select share folder, then the window comes up and I select SMB, in the name feild I type "Linux", I leave the comment feild blank and leave the read only box and the allow browsing folder unchecked, then I click "Generate windows sharing settings", for host / description I leave what comes up and type Linx into the Doman / Workgroup blank, I leave it as do not use WINS server and 
<benjamindaines> click out of both windows
<iGotNoTime> Hi guys :)
<iGotNoTime> I fear I will be coming back to you very soon :)
<iGotNoTime> I forgot how bad XP during my week with you
<dswillia> evening all
<iGotNoTime> hello dswillia
<iGotNoTime> dswillia are you new here?
<iGotNoTime> I am :)
<dswillia> i am too
<iGotNoTime> Is Edubuntu slower in development than Ubuntu in any ways?
<dswillia> i couldnt tell you, just found this tonight
<iGotNoTime> I have had it on for a week and it is sexy
<iGotNoTime> but I have only used Xandros as comparison
<dswillia> are you using the ltsp option?
<iGotNoTime> negative
<iGotNoTime> sorry for delay digging deep into google for answers
<iGotNoTime> I am toying with the idea for my kids' computer though
<dswillia> yeah i am downloading the live cd now, I have a 3 year old I would like to test it
<iGotNoTime> yes very safe!
<iGotNoTime> I have live cd for my kids and they use a USB drive for their personal files and bookmarks
<iGotNoTime> works wonderfully
<iGotNoTime> I just wish there was a linux for kids, preloaded with TONS of games and educational apps
<iGotNoTime> no desktop, just a nice webpage like interface
<iGotNoTime> Hell I would and I am certain that many others would be willing to even pay a donation rate for something that simple on a live disc. Then even single computer homes would have no fear in letting the kids play
<iGotNoTime> it is sad that there is not much profit in the kids computing or we would certainly have many options along that route
<dswillia> yeah that would be wonderful
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<iGotNoTime> morning high voltage :)
<iGotNoTime> in Edubuntu is installing KDE as simple as the marking the package for installation via Synaptic?
<iGotNoTime> or are there a bunch of libraries and compiling needed?
<highvoltage> morning iGotNoTime 
<highvoltage> yep, it's pretty easy.
<highvoltage> no compiling needed.
<iGotNoTime> wow
<iGotNoTime> who is this Synaptic guy?
<iGotNoTime> he is smart :)
<highvoltage> he's the middle man between you, apt and dpkg
<highvoltage> dpkg does most of the hard work. apt does a lot of the automation. Synaptic is your agent :)
<iGotNoTime> I like him, almost too much
<highvoltage> yeah, apt and dpkg are really nice guys too
<iGotNoTime> doesn't he kind of spit in the face of the 'do it yourself' motto that linux has alway mainatined so well though?
<highvoltage> it just takes a bit longer to get to know them.
<highvoltage> i don't know if that's a real linux motto though, some people are just a bit extreme.
<iGotNoTime> I mean it is as easy (maybe easier) than Microsoft now
<highvoltage> DYI stuff tends to be hacky sometimes.
<highvoltage> not that there's something wronge with hacky, but when you work on big production systems, a good, automated process is always better than when everyone does their own thing.
<highvoltage> yes, it is easier than with installing software on windows.
<iGotNoTime> technical question... I was very upset that my drive were unmounted and I did nothing, then I remembered that I did allow it to do an automatic update, could that have caused the drives to unmount?
<highvoltage> MS is working on MSI to get it as good as APT, but it will never be the same.
<iGotNoTime> APT is awesome, one of my favorite thing in Linux
<highvoltage> mostly because of the licensing of most windows software
<highvoltage> yep.
<iGotNoTime> see, they have hindered themselves in so many ways it is unrepairable
<iGotNoTime> all in the name of money
<iGotNoTime> sealed their own fate in many ways
<highvoltage> i think they can fix windows, but it wouldn't justify the cost.
<iGotNoTime> I think it is funny to count all the distros in comparison
<highvoltage> they've explained before that they wouldn't add a feature or fix a bug unless it will directly bring in money.
<highvoltage> but now we're going off-topix
<iGotNoTime> yes sorry :)
<iGotNoTime> are gdesklets nearly dead?
<iGotNoTime> I have a couple but most will not work because I have read that the newer gdesklets no longer work with sensors
<iGotNoTime> most of mine are sensor based, and giving errors upon load
<iGotNoTime> with Edubuntu do you have a suggestion for a few widgets?
<iGotNoTime> a suggestion for an engine I mean
<highvoltage> i don't know, i use gdesklets now and again
<iGotNoTime> and lastly the Wiki has 8658 pages but not one mention of the word 'donate', where can we donate to the fine project?
<highvoltage> superkaramba is big on KDE, it seems
<iGotNoTime> superkaramba is again another simple click in Synaptic you suppose?
<highvoltage> yep :)
<iGotNoTime> and donation?
<highvoltage> here's one of my screenshots with gdesklets: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/25MAR05
<highvoltage> here's another: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/12AUG05
<iGotNoTime> sexy
<iGotNoTime> All Gdesklets only?
<highvoltage> yep
<iGotNoTime> can they be configured to only show on one desktop?
<highvoltage> i don't think so
<highvoltage> not sure.
<iGotNoTime> ok :)
<highvoltage> at the moment my desktop is very clean: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots/gartublu
<iGotNoTime> Yes I prefer mine clean like that usually, I am really just looking for a single widget LOL
<iGotNoTime> sounds kinda dumb I know
<highvoltage> nothing wrong with toying around, i think
<pips1> ogra, ping!
<pips1> highvoltage, hi
<ogra> pips1, pong
<pips1> hey, ogra :-)
<pips1> I downloaded flight5 and want to test it
<ogra> cool :)
<pips1> however, last time i tried with flight4 I failed miserably, so I was hoping I could run some questions by you, as I go along
<ogra> sure
<highvoltage> hi pips1 
<ogra> do you want to test the workstation again ? it should be relatively flawless
<pips1> first, let me tell you what went wrong: I don't have internet connection, and the keymap is 'us' insted of swiss-german...
<pips1> no, I want to test a server setup
<pips1> I have two nics
<pips1> the mainboard nic, and an older pci nic
<pips1> I'm at home, with a adsl hardware router... 
<pips1> I think I did some mistakes during setup... ie. i didn't enter the right values for gateway, proxy and whatnot
<ogra> you dont need two nics to test the server :)
<ogra> we only configure one during install anyway :)
<pips1> first question: what nic should I use for the internet connection, the slower 100 or the faster Gigabit-nic?
<pips1> oh
<ogra> there is no german langpack on the CD currently ... you either need network or install the langpacks with the language selector afterwards
<ogra> (which also requires network)
<pips1> I see, so this affects the keyboard map, too, then
<ogra> we're out of space on the CD
<pips1> ic
<ogra> did you select it in the installer ? 
<pips1> so basically, if I manage to get network, I'll be fine
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<ogra> you should have the right map during install and in X afterwards
<ogra> yep
<pips1> I decided to test the new options on the very first screen, ie F5 keymap...
<ogra> yep
<pips1> since that feature is new, i decided to test it :-)
<ogra> it should give you the right keymap in the installer
<pips1> I don't remember if it was the right keymap during installer, since i didn't use any umlauts, etc. but the keymap is definitely wrong on the desktop...
<pips1> well and in the console
<pips1> I had problems with the keymap during the breezy beta testing too, filed a bug report, did lots of interactive debugging with a gnome guy (svu) and finally a fix went in, before the breezy release :-)
<pips1> but now, I get the same prob again, even worse... I can't even switch kaymap layout with the gnome panel selector anymore :-/
<pips1> what is that gnome settings utility called again?
<ogra> you need to use the language selector 
<ogra> and install the missing langpack
<pips1> oh
<pips1> ok
<pips1> ic
<pips1> ok, let me try a new install with flight5 and see that I get the internet network access working
<ogra> language-support-gnome-de or something like that has the keymaps
<pips1> ah
<pips1> ok, should i take out the second nic, since it's not configured during install? question: how do I get internet access if I only have 1 nic?
<ogra> set it to an ip from your lan
<ogra> and use the right data ...
<pips1> right... my adsl-router has built-in dhcp, so how do I set a right ip?
<ogra> you know your ip range, dont you ? 
<pips1> nope
* pips1 blusing
* pips1 blushing
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> but youre online currently :) just look it up ... add +1 in the end and thats it :)
<pips1> oh
<pips1> ok
<ogra> sorry, i'm a bit distracted by the dapper delay meeting currently running ...
<pips1> ah, ok
<pips1> I'm amazed how good you developers are at multi-tasking, anyway :-)
<ogra> heh, scrollback is a big advantage you dont have in RL :)
<pips1> hehe
<highvoltage> ogra: i scroll back in real life. it's real annoying to everyone else though :)
<ogra> heh
<pips1> sorry, I still don't quite understand how I will be able to do a server setup with internet access if I only use one nic... one nic should connect to my router and the other should connect to a switch where I will plug the thin clients into, no?
<ogra> yes
<pips1> ok, so I will use both nics, then :-)
<ogra> but since we assume a standalone server without internet access, only the first nic is set up
<ogra> and it works fine without a second one, even as server :)
<pips1> should I get some system info from the running flight4 setup, before I do the flight5 install, like getting some info on the nics or something?
<ogra> additionally you cant run two dhcp servers in the same net ...
<pips1> oh
<ogra> (you can but thats very high level stuff)
<pips1> the problem is, if I don't have internet access for the server, I won't be able to install all those language packs, etc
<pips1> so how do I best proceed?
<spacey> ogra: i'm looking for dspesd, it suppose to be part of esound but can't find it in any package
<ogra> you give a fixed ip that matches your LAN settings and use the dsl modem ip as gateway ...
<spacey> ogra: I need it (and probably need to patch esound as well) to have proper sound on the thinclients with wine applications.
<ogra> spacey, esound-clients i think ... but beware it will crash your firefox
<spacey> why is that?
<ogra> because new firefox cant use LD_PRELOAD mechanisms anymore
<spacey> ephipany won't have that problem i hope?
<highvoltage> hi JaneW. very busy in #ubuntu-meeting?
<spacey> thinking about switching away from firefox anyway on the terminal server. 
<spacey> seems to it has some printing bug
<spacey> when i print from gnome application it works fine
<spacey> but some users print a job and it gets send to the printer and cups doesn't process any jobs anymore
<spacey> and everytime they try to print a webpage
<JaneW> highvoltage: yup, rather
<JaneW> highvoltage: need something?
<spacey> but still figuring that out for sure, have cups on debug now
<pips1> ogra, how do i find out the dsl modem gateway ip?
<highvoltage> JaneW: nothing urgent, can wait til later
<JaneW> highvoltage: great, thanks
<JaneW> highvoltage: 30 mins or so, or till meeting is over...
<pips1> ogra, does the dsl modem just have *one* ip, that I can use as a gateway for my edubuntu server? (there is an ip mentioned in the dsl router handbook that is used to configure the routher via a web form)
<ogra> yep, that should be the same ip
<pips1> ok
<pips1> if i do an ifconfig on my laptop I get 192.168.0.2 , so you say I should use e.g. 192.168.0.3 as my server ip?
<pips1> ogra, (my laptop is getting it's ip from the router's dhcp, of course)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and i bet 192.168.0.1 as gateway
<pips1> in the handbook of the dsl routher it says t 192.168.1.1
<ogra> look at your route settings of the laptop
<ogra> (type route)
<pips1> ah, thanks
<pips1> indeed, there it reads 192.168.0.1
<pips1> but then again, something seems wrong with that, ie. my internet access on the laptop seems very slow, as if it is re-routing every time I access a web page, or do any internet access, for that matter...
<pips1> ogra, is there a possibility that the ubuntu network defaults aren't 100% ok for my router setup? how could I investigate to find out?
<ogra> there are no "defaults" you set everything manually ...
<juliux> ogra, http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=2369370
<juliux> ogra, if we want we get from igel thinclients to test if they runs with edubuntu
<pips1> ogra, not in the plain *ubuntu* installation, though, which is what i use on the laptop
<ogra> juliux, cool
<juliux> ogra, but we have to give them back after 30 days
<ogra> guys, i'm trying to follow a heavy traffic meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, please lets do it later
<juliux> :-(
<juliux> ok
<pips1> ogra, ok
<ogra> thanks 
<ogra> it just goes wild there ... (200 ppl)
<pips1> now 201 ppl ;-)
<ogra> :)
<pips1> ogra, what is TB that was mentioned?
<juliux|cebit> technical board
<ogra> tech board 
<ogra> meeting at 20:00 UTC tonight
<ogra> juliux|cebit, waer es moeglich den Xgl mist auszuraeumen ? dapper wird definitiv nicht Xgl unterstuetzen 
<ogra> (wird aber ueberall geschrieben)
<ogra> koennt ihr dass n bisschen propagieren ? 
<juliux|cebit> machen wir
<juliux|cebit> wir sagen das jedes mal das es eine option ist und nicht mehr
<juliux|cebit> da hat heise scheie gebaut
* ogra wuesste gern wer das aufgebracht hat ... sogar heise hatte es
<ogra> yep
<ogra> whoops, sorry for the german :)
<juliux|cebit> heise hat es ist drin und es wird defaultmig installiert durch ein ander gebracht
<spacey> its really cute :)
<ogra> its not even ready for usage 
<juliux|cebit> ogra, i know
<ogra> and i doubt it will be before dapper+2
<juliux|cebit> ogra, but heise has read that it is in universe and then they thinked that it is installed by default in ubuntu
<ogra> yep, i saw te article
<juliux|cebit> we only said heise that we show flight4 at the cebit 
<juliux|cebit> not more
<ogra> if suse really delivers with it, they'll get *baaad* press
<juliux|cebit> i know that it isnt good that everybody think that xgl is in dapper
<ogra> yup ... i just saw the "derstandard.at" article 
<juliux|cebit> but we say everybody that he there is no support for xgl and that it isnt stable
<juliux|cebit> the problem is that the everybody copied what heise write
<juliux|cebit> and they didnt aske us
<juliux|cebit> d
<ogra> yep
<pips1> ogra, something seems wrong with the default gateway ip on my laptop, ie. my internet access seems very slow, as if it is re-routing every time I access a web page, or do any internet access, for that matter...  is there a possibility that the (plain) *ubuntu* network defaults aren't 100% ok for my router setup? how could I investigate to find out? I really would like to get my network settings right, for both ubuntu laptop and edubuntu se
<pips1> rver...
<ogra> the plain ubuntu settings are what your routers dhcpd gives out ...
<juliux|cebit> ogra, we have make a article for the press but we dont write that it xgl works by default
<pips1> aha
<juliux|cebit> ogra, we only said that you can installe it in dapper
* highvoltage warps back into edubuntu land
<ogra> juliux|cebit, write that xgl preview packages are to be found in the unsupported area but not expected to work or something
<juliux|cebit> ogra, i will talk with our press people that he correct that
<pips1> ogra, ok, I'll just go with those ip & gateway values and see how it goes :-)
<ogra> :)
<juliux|cebit> ogra, i will send you the text
<juliux|cebit> ogra, i think you have the text already
<ogra> i have 400 mails waiting ... let me get through it :)
<juliux|cebit> ogra, i will send it now to you
<ogra> thanks 
<pips1> ogra, is there any specific hardware or network information you recommend I should get, before I do the flight5 installation?
<pips1> what should I use for name server and proxy (I assume I don't have a proxy, anyway)?
<ogra> dont use one then ....
<ogra> grep nameserver /etc/resolv.conf 
<ogra> ^^^ on your lappie
<pips1> ah thanks! :-)
<pips1> same as gateway (192.168.0.1)
<ogra> :)
<pips1> (I'll try the swiss-german keymap setting in F5 and watch out whether that works during install)
<ogra> you can switch to console 2 and test it ;)
<ogra> (during install)
* pips1 ripps out the second nic, since it's not needed.
<pips1> ok, thanks for the tip
<ogra> just make sure to switch off dhcp on the router if you want to test ltsp ...
<ogra> else you'll get a mess
<pips1> oh, darn, that might be a problem, since I don't seem to remember the router's passw just now... grumble...
<pips1> so I'll need to give my laptop a static ip during my testing with the server, i take it...
* pips1 is going disable the dhcp on the router
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<pips1> ogra, my testing will have to wait till thurs, had to get a new passw from my isp :-| thanks for all the answers, though :-)
<ogra> no problem ... come back on thu if you need more info :)
<bobulator> hey hey
<bobulator> anyone got any ideas why my soundblaster audigy isnt working? ive tried pretty much everything i can find on tinternet.
<bobulator> it worked before we moved the computer into a new case...
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<alistair> hum... well i tried all the posts in edubuntu-devel. But it seems that dapper has a problem with Optiplex GX1 sound cards anyway.
<alistair> but at least irc's been allowed through our firewall now
<alistair> I'll try it wih a C-Media 8738 pci
<ogra> pci should work fine ...
<ogra> you could try with MODULE= and the matching module/parameters, but i suspect the card needs initialization through pnp as well
<StR> hi all!
<StR> edubuntu does not fit in a 2G hard drive, right?
<StR> what are the requirements for edubuntu?
<ogra> about 600MB more than ubuntu for the workstation, and bout 1G more for the default (ltsp server) install
<ogra> (ubuntu takes ~2GB+)
<alistair> yeh ha !! rythmbox and France Musique, not exactly my tast in music but its a thin client... and its making sweet music.
<ogra> YAY
<ogra> so the pci card worked then ? 
<alistair> yup sure did
* ogra puts on his todo for dapper+1 to look into the ISA issue ...
<alistair> just about to install hydrogen to really test it out with a drum machine.
<ogra> heh
<alistair> see if the head can hear me from down the hall... he he
<ogra> our rhythmbox maintainer is french btw ...
<ogra> if you have suggestions for ogg based internat radio in other langs, please make them :)
<ogra> *internet
<alistair> no really...... I would have never have guessed. but then I'm just happy I have sound
<alistair> thanks for your help.... and your development time
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<alistair> its really appreciated
<ogra> your feedback as well :)
<crimsun> err, you have the cs4236, correct?
<ogra> crimsun, isa
<alistair> yup... the headmaster can hear me ok. Oooops
<crimsun> snd-cs4236 in lts.conf may have been needed (along with isapnp=0 and the host of other module params)
<alistair> crimsun I have places a C-Media pci card in the thin client to make it work
<crimsun> alistair: ok. I just read the edubuntu list a few minutes ago
<ogra> crimsun, the MODULE= option is untested yet ...
<ogra> so it might also be my fault it didnt work ... i'll do some testing before release (if i find an isa card in my big box)
<alistair> I would be nice to get the onboard card to work but al least I have some knid of interim measure to go by
<alistair> Next on the list is LDA and some better switches
<alistair> for me at least
<ogra> for LDA you need to refer to the ltsp.org wiki, we dont have support out of the box yet
<alistair> one step a head with that. I remember asking a while back and was pointed here
<alistair> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspFS
<alistair> I wanted to help test the sound first as I knew this was a reported feature of dapper.
<ogra> yep 
<alistair> just out of curiosity ctrl+alt+f8 gives some messages
<alistair> one moment and i'll jot the one down I'm thinking of
<ogra> that are the bootmessages
<ogra> they appear on tty8 
<highvoltage> ogra: do you currently get *any* sleep? :)
<ogra> sure ... between 5 and 5:30 am ususally :P
<highvoltage> geez
<ogra> if we delay, i'll have plenty of time to do very relaxed bug triage :)
<highvoltage> yes.
<highvoltage> i think it's natural for people to have a mixed feeling about the delay.
<highvoltage> in one way, people are hungry for dapper, on the other hand, people also want a top-quality distribution.
<ogra> yeah, i'm not really happy about it, since we are so well on schedule this time
<highvoltage> i also don't like the break in pattern, ie, the .04, .10, 04, .10 pattern. but ah well, that's how things go.
<highvoltage> the delay will mean at least that we'll be able to put in a better edubuntu into our tuxlabs, which i'm happy about, on the other hand.
<highvoltage> it also gives me a better chance to test things.
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> when we put Ubuntu into the tuxlabs, i had less than a day to test it.
<highvoltage> it meant fixing a *lot* of things afterwards, especially considering that i only had about a week to automate the installation, including ltsp, and a bunch of other stuff.
<ogra> if the freeze dates get postponed as well, that would give us a chance to have at least proper packages for LDA ... 
<ogra> (even if not integrated, it would make everything easier)
<highvoltage> edubuntu provides a chance to make the tuxlabs installations less hacky, and very smooth and clean, technically speaking.
<highvoltage> what is LDA again?
<ogra> local device access
<highvoltage> OOH!
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> ltspfs and ltspfsd are pretty outdated in the archive ... lbus isnt packaged at all
* highvoltage suddenly feels a bigger shift in favour of the postponement
<ogra> (and we wont use lbus in our implementation)
<ogra> highvoltage, dont get me wrong you still have to set up the scripts yourself ...
<highvoltage> would you use ltspfs in the ubuntu implementation?
<highvoltage> well, just some more steps toward LDA would already be nice, even if it takes some manual work.
<highvoltage> brb- dinner
<ogra> i'm not sure about ltspfs yet 
<alistair> got that message.. Its right after *loading hardware
<alistair> udevd-event[1684]  run_program: '/lib/udev/iftab_helper' exited abnormaly
<highvoltage> that exactly is ltspfs? i've only seen a reference to it for the first time on #ltsp the other day.
* highvoltage googles
<alistair> then it goes on to the same thing but 1686
<alistair> never had a boot on the client without it.
<ogra> alistair, it cant initialize the interface, because it up already due to netbooting ;)
<ogra> its just cosmetic and you wont see it as a normal user due to usplash 
<alistair> ah... nowt to worry about then?
<ogra> nope :)
<alistair> what about WARNING: /var/cache/man could not be found, WARNING: /etc/hotplug/.run could not be found, WARNING: /var/lib/xfree86 could not be found
<alistair> other than that everthing else looks cool and dandy
<highvoltage> man pages aren't installed in chroot :)
<alistair> fairy snuf
<ogra> also cosmetic and hidden by the bootsplash, but i'll check how to make it more quite 
<highvoltage> alistair: i got rid of that warning by 'chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ; mkdir /var/cache/man'
<ogra> i could put that into ltsp-build-client :)
<alistair> would there be any reason for ommiting it. Say clever first years *king up a system
<alistair> by reading too man mans
<highvoltage> ogra: :)
<alistair> many mans
<highvoltage> alistair: the ltsp chroot is kept as small as possible
<ogra> you dont use the thin client chroot at all 
<ogra> you only log in to the server ... 
<highvoltage> alistair: under normal circumstances, you'd never need to read man pages in the chroot
<alistair> my understanding of ltsp just when up.
<alistair> again
<alistair> ;)
<alistair> home time... woo hoo, see yall when i get home..... (if the wife's not in a mood again :) )
<ogra> heh
<alistair> infact the boss has sound now so I think I'll take a night off.sound like a good idea?
<ogra> sure :)
* ogra knows how that feels :)
<highvoltage> have a good evening, alistair 
<highvoltage> alistair: btw, where do live?
<alistair> Thanks for all your help orga, highvoltage.
<alistair> Skendleby, Lincolnshire
<alistair> UK
<alistair> bloody cold at the moment, been snowing on and off all day
<highvoltage> nice. good timezone :)
<alistair> where you from?
<highvoltage> south africa, autumn is creeping in here atm.
<alistair> always fancied going on holiday to africa, just a bit scared of flying. You can't even get my wife within 5 miles of an airport!
<alistair> so i think i'd have no chance
<alistair> See ya..
<highvoltage> i asked mdz at the edubuntu summit about nbd and local devices. at that stage he seemed open to the idea of using nbd, i quite like nbd too, i just can't think of good ways to keep it secure.
<ogra> thats my idea too ... i wanted to look deeper int ndb ...
<ogra> and into unionfs so you can transparently mount /dev/nbdX on top of /dev/cdrom or something ...
<highvoltage> unionfs has so many applications, it's amazing.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> the cool thing is, if you can do it on this level, hal and g-v-m will just pick it up, show the icon on the desktop etc ... 
<ogra> no extra patching required
<highvoltage> wow, nice
<ogra> the ltspfs variant requires a lot of changes
<highvoltage> i also want to use unionfs in the chroot for diskless fat clients.
<highvoltage> ltspfs looks a bit hacky, to be honest.
<ogra> the ltfpfs and ltspfsd programs are fine ...
<ogra> i dont like the double effort thats gone into lbus instead of enhancing dbus
<ogra> we already have a bus system, there is no need for a second one 
<highvoltage> i don't understand much about the bus system, something i'll have to do more reading on.
<highvoltage> oh yes, on the fat clients, i want to use unionfs with a ramdisk and the ro / so that when files change on the thin client, they get changed in the unionfs ramdisk part.
<highvoltage> i'm going to start writing ideas and put them together, with some help from other interested people we might have a diskless fat client set-up for dapper+1?
<ogra> the server needs notification if y device is plugged in, thats what dbus is used for
<ogra> s/y/a
<highvoltage> here's my first stab at writing something: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/index.py?diskless-fat (very rough still)
<ere> I have tried LTSP in 6.04. The thin client boots, but when I try to log in the screen becomes black for a moment, the mouse cursor (x) appears, and I get GDM back. I also have tried to log on in the console and get a invalid user message. Any suggestons for how to debug the problem?
<highvoltage> ah, ok.
<ogra> ere, did you install from flight 4 ? 
<ogra> or did you change the ip since you installed ? 
<highvoltage> ere: run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys from command line
<ogra> if so, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> :)
<ere> ogra: nope, it is flight 5  (regular ubuntu)
<ogra> ah, not edubuntu then 
<ere> highvoltage: well, I have tried that, and multiple times
<ogra> ere, sshd is running ? 
<highvoltage> ere: and the ip address question that ogra asked about?
<ere> highvoltage: no, I have not changed it. the box have two network interfaces. One where the thin client is attached, and one connected to the rest of the network
<ere> in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/known_hosts the ip of both interfaces are stored
<ogra> fine then 
<ogra> so is your sshd running on the server ?
<ere> and ssh is running as I manage the server over ssh :)
<ogra> fine as well 
<ogra> the user you try can log in via ssh ?
<ogra> (in non ltsp)
<ere> (unfortunately the box is a work and I'm home, I ask now because a firewall that blocks irc at work))
<ere> I think so, I tried to log on with my regular username
<ere> by the way, how is edubuntu different from ubuntu with respect to LTSP?
<highvoltage> ere: is someone trying to log in on the otherside? or are you logging in over the internet?
<ogra> the installer sets up and installs ltsp by default
<ere> highvoltage: the setup is very simple. I have one thin client attached to one interface of the server. The other interface is attached to the same network segment as my workstation. I administer the ltsp server over a ssh connection. 
<ere> thin client boots by IXP (works well)
<ogra> IXP ?
<ere> errr... PXE
<ogra> you mean PXE =
<ogra> ah :)
<ere> too many acronyms
<ogra> heh, yes
<ogra> what you can do for debugging is to set a root pw in the client chroot ...
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd 
<ogra> then log in on tty1 on the client and tail -f /var/log/ldm.log to see what happens during ldm login
<ogra> also check the ~/.xsession-errors file of the user 
<highvoltage> ogra: our help desk in tuxlabs often spend huge amounts of time checking with educators whether services are running on the server (such as sshd in our example right here now, or dhcpd)
<highvoltage> ogra: so i've integrated this in our troubleshooter: http://www.jonathancarter.co.za/projects/xola/index.py?stats
<ogra> highvoltage, LTSPManager will have a services overview
<highvoltage> ogra: it uses nmap -p 67-67 localhost, for example, to get that
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, great, that was what i was getting at :)
<highvoltage> ogra: i was about to ask how we can do that without nmap to get it into there
<ogra> just a grep through px will suffice
<ogra> err ps
<ere> ogra: thanks, I will try that tomorrow
<highvoltage> ah, of course :)
<highvoltage> ogra: are there people specifically testing LTSP on Ubuntu? do you think it's needed that i do an ubuntu flight 5 installation too and play with the ubuntu ltsp a bit too, to find some problems we might have there?
<ogra> highvoltage, its identical :) 
<ogra> but indeed you can test it 
<highvoltage> will do.
* ogra has days where he does ltsp-build-client 20 times a day ...
<highvoltage> geez! most of the packages are probably available locally, so it probably goes fast?
<highvoltage> can't you just do an apt-get dist-upgrade in the chroot? or do you specifically check that it builds fine from scratch?
<ogra> ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom ;)
<ogra> (mount /cdrom before)
<highvoltage> i hope the edubuntu/ubuntu community appreciates all the dedication you put into this, i certainly think you're doing fantastic work.
<ere> I hope I manage to get LTSP working well. I will use it just with a couple of clients first to test if the users think it is a good enough solution. If, I will probably implement at least 20 LTSP clients (maybe edubunty) in one of the schools I'm responsible of
<ogra> i'm testing if it builds from scratch after i made a change
<ogra> highvoltage, thanks :)
<iGotNoTime> has anyone had problem with .mpg's playing at double speed in here?
<iGotNoTime> It does it with all media players I have
<highvoltage> i haven't actually seen mpg's play in here.
<iGotNoTime> I meant in Edubuntu :P
<highvoltage> :P
<iGotNoTime> I am serious every video is like something from the chipmunks
<highvoltage> mine play fine in gxine and gmplayer
<iGotNoTime> like it is a bad codec
<iGotNoTime> even in VLC
<iGotNoTime> I will try gxine
<highvoltage> IGotNoIdea
<iGotNoTime> even gxine :(
<iGotNoTime> I will search for codecs :)
* highvoltage enjoys the electric atmosphere in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> wow
<ogra> that gets *full* this time
<ogra> i wonder if we pass 300 ppl
<highvoltage> ogra: wanna place a bet?
<highvoltage> :)
<ogra> nah ...
<ogra> i usually loose :)
<highvoltage> i think it might pass 300 people
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> 269
<highvoltage> 279 :)
<juliux> 286
<juliux> hi littlepaul 
<juliux> littlepaul, #ubuntu-meeting
<iGotNoTime> what is -meeting?
<iGotNoTime> is that a developers room?
<juliux> no the meeting room
<littlepaul> juliux, sure
<ogra> its the community meeting channel
<iGotNoTime> it is open?
<iGotNoTime> as in open invitation?
<crimsun> yes, just please don't blurt out questions/comments.
<ogra> yep
<iGotNoTime> crimsun, that would be very disrespectful :)
<ogra> feel free to join 
<iGotNoTime> ogra, thank you :)
<juliux> 300 ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: if edubuntu can be hard-freezed before the time, would it also have a 5 year support cycle?
<ogra> i just was told that cant happen ...
<ogra> even if the edubuntu parts are frozen in time, the ubuntu core might still change
<ogra> 313 :)
<Burgwork> ogra, are you saying Edubuntu and Kubuntu are not going to be supported for 3 years?
<ogra> Burgwork, nope i would never say that :)
<Burgwork> sorry, that is what I thought you said
<iGotNoTime> well that room is way over my head, I like it in here even though you do try to get rid me LOL
<ogra> we dont !! 
<ogra> please stay !!
<ogra> :)
<iGotNoTime> Hey ogra highvoltage kindly ignored my question yesterday, he must not have thought I was serious....
<iGotNoTime> where can we donate to the edubuntu project?
<ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/donations
<ogra> we have no separation from ubuntu :)
<iGotNoTime> why not?
<iGotNoTime> I want only to fund Edubuntu
<iGotNoTime>  :P
<iGotNoTime> they are arrogant over there LOL
<ogra> in large scale i develop edubuntu ...
<ogra> i work for canonical and in ubuntu as well :)
<iGotNoTime> is there a possible seperation down the road?
<ogra> so in the end you fund edubuntu 
<JaneW> iGotNoTime: if you want to fund edubuntu you could do it through canonical
<JaneW> iGotNoTime: if you make it clear you want the money to be spent for edubuntu explicitly that wouldn;t be a problem 
<ogra> yeah
<JaneW> we could use the support, and it would be great to get our cookbook published!
<iGotNoTime> excellent!
<highvoltage> iGotNoTime: i can't speak for the entire Edubuntu, but I can be quite arrogant too
<JaneW> highvoltage: I have seen no evidence of that!
<iGotNoTime> I doubt it highvoltage I think you simply have not seen much of the logs the past few days in there
<iGotNoTime> rough place
<iGotNoTime> to put it mildly it is very cold and unwelcoming :)
<iGotNoTime> much different in here :)
<JaneW> iGotNoTime: we are in a sensitive phase, so things are tighter than usual as we figure it out - so there's less tolerance when protocol is not observed
<iGotNoTime> you all should be proud of that :)
<JaneW> and with 200+ ppl on #u-m a level of order and control need to be kept
<ogra> -meeting is usually a nice warm place 
<JaneW> iGotNoTime: but thanks for the compliments here :)
<iGotNoTime> JaneW "we" as in the entire project or we meaning Ubuntu?
<highvoltage> JaneW, iGotNoTime: I am so arrogant, in fact, that I arrogantly blog about how unarrogant we all are: http://jonathancarter.co.za/blog/
<JaneW> ogra is a very accomodating person :)
<ogra> just herding 300+ (JaneW !) ppl is not doable without hard restrictions :)
<iGotNoTime> as a thousand thanks to Ogra even helping noob questions from me such as mounting a drive
<highvoltage> JaneW: 300+ ppl :)
<ogra> heh
<JaneW> iGotNoTime: 'we' as in all wroking towards dapper, and that encompasses ubuntu/edubuntu and kubuntu
<JaneW> highvoltage: wow really? I missed most of this one, but was there this am
<ogra> iGotNoTime, its pure selfishness ;) every happy user saves my job ;)
* highvoltage was at both.
<iGotNoTime> ahh, JaneW and Dapper seems to be something all aspects are trying to come together in meeting correct?
<highvoltage> this is way to exciting for me  to miss :)
<JaneW> indeed
<JaneW> although I won't miss yoga for ...well anything ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: are the rumours about you know, that thing, you know, true?
<highvoltage> *blink* *blink*
<JaneW> else I start wanting to throttle ppl ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: HUH?!
<iGotNoTime> Well ogra you will be pleased to know that I talked my brother into using Edubuntu on his 3 pc's too :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: :)
<iGotNoTime> a few more baby steps :)
* highvoltage pvt msg's JaneW 
<ogra> YAY
<ogra> :)
* JaneW is going away for a bit
<JaneW> I want to watch *cough*nip/tuck*cough*
<ogra> lol
<tsurc_>  /msg nickserv link tsurc gemmakemp
<iGotNoTime> ok my videos playing at doublespeed, is it possible that the libmpeg2 thing needs updated?
<ogra> tsurc_, ouch
<iGotNoTime> I grabbed my camera to try and get a video of it LOL
<iGotNoTime> VLC says it is playing at 1.00X
<highvoltage> if it's flight5, i can't imagine what it could be updated to :)
<iGotNoTime> here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1ILjYc3TA
<tsurc_> bugger
<iGotNoTime> sometimes it makes me laugh, and sometimes makes me angry LOL
<tsurc_> wrong window... oh well new passwords all round then
* ogra takes a break before TB meeting 
<Seveas> ogra, JaneW: After the TB meeting I'll put #ubuntu-meeting on +m to 'scare away' the lurkers who came for the dapper meetings
<Seveas> I'll make sure it's open before the edubuntu meeting
<ogra> thanks
<trondm_gone> I tried a eubuntu install today, and got a terminal to boot (533MHz/256RAM). It was horribly slow. Any idea why? The same terminal runs at full speed on K12LTSP...
<ogra> trondm_gone, what kind of graphics card does that box have ... ? 
<ogra> (sorry i'm in a meeting) 
<ogra> i suspect it somehow falls back to vesa
<Seveas> ogra, are you really interested in a pastebin <--> IRC bot link?
<ogra> i dont need it in here
<ogra> but the #ltsp guys have one, comes in quite handy
<Seveas> neither do I anywhere but you mentioned it and the code is halfway there already
<Seveas> so ok, I won't do anything with it yet 
<ogra> no i mentioned to mark that this is a feature LP hasnt yet :)
<ogra> and i think it makes sense to haveone in a developemnt and collaboration platform like LP
<ogra> additionally he cant complain about php then ;)
<ogra> but we are seldom over 30 ppl here ... i dont mind pastes in a low traffic channel ....
<batman> hello room
<Burgwork> salut batman 
<batman> any big bugs in the edubuntu 
<Burgwork> there are no bugs in edubuntu ;)
<batman> I install it on a box for my son
<batman> right on 
<Burgwork> nothing showstopping
<Burgwork> but if you find something that you think would work better, feel free to email the edubutu list about it
<batman> cool
<spacey> now hope he doesn't do a server install :P
<Burgwork> ya
#edubuntu 2007-03-12
<cliebow_> i posted answer in #ltsp
<groov1> hi LaserJock
<groov1> hi nixternal
<sesja> hi all :-)
<LaserJock> hi
<sesja> LaserJock: do u sleep sometimes?
<LaserJock> I think so
<sesja> which version is Edubuntu?
<sesja>  Hoary Hedgehog
<sesja>  Breezy Badger
<sesja>  Dapper Drake
<sesja> or
<sesja>  Edgy Eft
<sesja> ok the last one
<LaserJock> you can get several versions
<sesja> my edubuntu hangs when i open cd tray
<sesja> is that normal?
<LaserJock> heh, no
<LaserJock> an OS hanging is not normal
<nixternal> OGRA! :)
<nixternal> that should get his attention ;p
<nixternal> wait, he is sleeping
<crazy_bus> I was wondering if there were any open-source alternatives to the software used to help autistic children
<crazy_bus> I was wondering if there were any open-source alternatives to the software used to help autistic children
<rockprincess> moin Juliux! ;)
<gerro> omg there are people that use that OS?
<RichEd> hi all
<RichEd> hi ogra
<ogra> hey RichEd
<gerro> hi
<RichEd> finally back at my desk after leaving home for italy 18 days ago
<ogra> phew
<RichEd> got stuck in Amsterdam due to a KLM strike & flight cancellation
<ogra> oh no !
<RichEd> and rode 110 km yesterday in a bike race ... so am feeling quite whacked out
<juliux> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi juliux ... doing okay ?
<juliux> RichEd, sure
<juliux> RichEd, we have no 4 schools in germany who says offical "yes we are using *ubuntu"
<RichEd> excellent ... can you mail me school names and any contact people ?
<juliux> RichEd, http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntu/schulen
<RichEd> 100% thanks
<juliux> you are welcome
<juliux> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day juliux
<kalle_> How do I get a Sandisk Pc card 6in1 to work in edubuntu? I can see the adapter but I can't mount the drives when I load a memory card in the pc card.
<juliux> kalle_, did you check the output form dmesg and /var/log/syslog ?
<kalle_> No, problem is that I'm new to edubuntu and I don't know how to.
<RichEd> ping ogra
<jsgotangco> hey RichEd
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco
<cbx33> ping ogra
<juliux> hi cbx33
<juliux> cbx33, did you have some edubuntu flyer left?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I don;t know who has them though
<juliux> RichEd, ping
<cbx33> w00t RichEd
<RichEd> ja juliux
<cbx33> hey dude
<RichEd> cbx33: hey right back at ya
<juliux> RichEd, did you now who has the edubuntu flyer from BETT?
<RichEd> I heard them chatting 'bout them in the office the other day when I was in london ... let me ask on #canonical
<RichEd> damn .. christina not there ... I will mail her and get back to you juliux
<juliux> RichEd, only ask here if there are some left if she can bring them to CeBIT
<RichEd> juliux: she mentioned there were some left, and she said who had them, but I can't remember who ... so I will follow up
<cbx33> I can't remember who either
<cbx33> I had to leave them there when i left
<cliebow> ogra: you tried ltsp5 on an emac?lookslike autodetect wont work there..works fine on g3 and g4 ibook
* RichEd -> collection 30mins
<cliebow> anyone using ltsp5 on ppc?
<bddebian> Heya
<Laser_away> ogra: you've probably already seen but edubuntu-docs MIR got approved
<cbx33> hey Laser_away
<nixternal> boo
<nixternal> Laser_away: that is one heck of a wireless keyboard you have there. away, yet still IRC'n
<cbx33> heeh
<nixternal> cbx33: cut your hair already :)
<cbx33> it's his brain implant
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> nixternal, you havn't seen it yet
* cbx33 is gonna post a pic soon ;)
<nixternal> psychokenesis? ;p
<nixternal> I keep my hair like I did when I was in the military
<nixternal> I grew out of the hippy stage I think my senior year in high school
<cbx33> haha
* cbx33 always had short-ish hair
<cbx33> no more
<cbx33> no more
<nixternal> I thought about growing it out, but it gets to the point to where it annoys me
* cbx33 is at that stage now
<nixternal> so I seen in the post
<nixternal> I want to make the photo frame now with an old laptop, but the display is kind of garbage
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> you mean the real display
<nixternal> ya
<cbx33> or using phimage?
<nixternal> the display itself
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> what's up with it
<nixternal> I need to pull it out, and set it up with phimage
<cbx33> awesome
<nixternal> it is old 8yrs maybe?
<cbx33> wow
<nixternal> it is grainy and has spots
<cbx33> maybe phimage will be too much for it
<nixternal> at least when I run *buntu on it
<cbx33> run with --tilesize 64 :p
<nixternal> I will do that next week during spring break
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> you actually run phimage yet?
<nixternal> that laptop is still a champ though, it runs any *buntu perfectly, at 800x600, but it works
<nixternal> not yet I haven't
<nixternal> I have been following it though
<cbx33> awesome
<cbx33> well now it's c++ it's much nicer
<cbx33> infact think I'll download compile and put up a video on google video ;)
<nixternal> hrmm, I wonder if I can get a small embedded linux thing. I have a sweet 6" LCD that I totally forgot about
<nixternal> there you go
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> we'd need an x server
<nixternal> well there are embedded linux devices with x-server
<cbx33> ;)
<nixternal> I know a guy who runs a 4.5" touchscreen LCD with one in his car
<nixternal> talk about a geek car, he has it
<cbx33> heheh cool
<cbx33> it runs linux?
<cbx33> wow cool
<cbx33> looks like Laser_away ran away
<cbx33> he probably heard me coming with my automake autoconf problems ;)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> heheh another phimage post ;)
<LaserJock> nixternal: away is a very relative term ;-)
<nixternal> so I have noticed :)
<rockprincess> ping RichEd
<juliux> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> hey Juliux :)
<rockprincess> hast du RichEd gesehen? ist er grad away?!
<juliux> rockprincess, yes he was here this morning
<juliux> rockprincess, last message at 14:00
<rockprincess> thank you juliux :)
<juliux> rockprincess, pls don't feed me, i am a stupid bot;)
<nixternal> huh?
<juliux> hi nixternal
<nixternal> hi juliux
<cbx33> hey juliux
<cliebow> hi juliux
<rockprincess> RichEd-1, are you in?
<LaserJock> hmm, that was interesting
<LaserJock> ogra: did you seed edubuntu-docs yet?
<ogra> last week
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> excellent
<LaserJock> and we got some good news from mdke
<LaserJock> the yelp upstream found a way to customize the front page for Edubuntu while not messing with Ubuntu
<ogra> yay
<LaserJock> so he asked me what we wanted
<LaserJock> did we decide if we wanted the Release Note shipped or not?
<LaserJock> I don't think Ubuntu or Kubuntu ships them
<ogra> no, we never shipped them ...
<ogra> they belong to the wiki
<ogra> all we have is the FF startpage
<ogra> (wich isnt updated yet btw)
<LaserJock> do you want us to drop the release notes altogether? it's currently in the svn repo
<ogra> well, keep them in the wiki as usual
<LaserJock> ok, so then we'd have About Edubuntu, Edubuntu Handbook, and Edubuntu School Advocacy
<zch> hi
<LaserJock> ogra: I don't really like the "Edubuntu School Advocacy" name
<LaserJock> ogra: what do you think?
<ogra> suggest something new :)
<LaserJock> well, do you like the name?
<LaserJock> it could be just me
<ogra> i dont really have an optinion about it ... ask a teacher ... thats the target audience
<LaserJock> "a teacher, a teacher, my kingdom for a teacher!" :-)
<cbx33> ogra, DUUUUDE
<cbx33> ogra, did kwwii speak to you?
<cbx33> Edubuntu Essentials LaserJock ?
<LaserJock> cbx33: well, how about "Edubuntu Propaganda"? ;-)
<cbx33> nn all
#edubuntu 2007-03-13
<crazy_bus> Are there any open-source alternatives to software to help autistic children?
<crazy_bus> on the kletters page of kde it says that it has "british english" an well as just english.  How do I access both?
<crazy_bus> was klettres compiled without british english?
<LaserJock> most applications have their translations in the language packs
<crazy_bus> how can you get the british english speech files for klettres instead of normal english?
<LaserJock> you could try installing the british language pack
<crazy_bus> is this the file? kde-i18n-en
<LaserJock> perhaps, but you can do it via the menu, System->Administration->Language Support
<crazy_bus> I selected english (australian) but it didn't downloaded any extra language packs.  So I got kde-i18n-en and now british english works.  Thanks for your help
<crazy_bus> btw does the alpha of feisty fawn have the second edubuntu cd for download?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> it's called serveraddon
<crazy_bus> where would I find a download link for the alpha? (since its called serveraddon does it work on single installs of edubuntu as well?)
<LaserJock> well, I think you'd need to get the corresponding Herd5 .isos for full funcionality
<LaserJock> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-5/
<crazy_bus> is that the page?  I can't see serveraddon there?
<LaserJock> oh sorry, that's for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-5/
<crazy_bus> is the serveraddon cd just for a server.  Or can it be used on indivdual computers as well.  Also is there a list anywhere of whats on the cd?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you can do a workstation install from the server CD
<LaserJock> and then use the addon CD
<LaserJock> server in this case is an LTSP server, not a traditional server
<LaserJock> and the currently I think the only way to see what's on the second CD is to look at the seeds
<crazy_bus> I see.  Where can I find documentation about using edubuntu with LTSP?
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<crazy_bus> thanks.  One last question.  A friend was talking to me amd I was wondering if their are any open-source alternatives to software to help autistic children?
<LaserJock> I really can't think of any
<LaserJock> not that none exist
<Laser_away> gotta run
<crazy_bus> bye
<crazy_bus> how much memory does xcfe use with thin clients?
<highvoltage> crazy_bus: this is a bit of an old test, but it should give you an idea: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-September/000537.html
<highvoltage> crazy_bus: in some real life tests, it seems Xfce uses about 400MB less RAM on a server with 20 clients, which is significant when the server has 2GB RAM in total
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<crazy_bus> highvoltage: thanks for the reply.  That page wasn't working for me
<bddebian> Heya
<juliux> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello juliux
<rockprincess> howdy friends!
<edubuntugirl> howdy your majesty!
<edubuntugirl> I was talking to rockprincess, but it can apply to ogra too ^_^
<rockprincess> haha :D
<rockprincess> cheers, edubuntugirl :)
<cliebow> rockprincess:how did your presentatrion go couple of weeks ago??
<rockprincess> cliebow: excellent, just held another presentation on edubuntu two hours ago.....today i had my 2nd class.....16/17 year olds...
<rockprincess> cliebow: yesterday wasn't as smooth as today, and mainly connected with pulling hair....but today was pretty ace and satisfying :)
<rockprincess> cliebow: do you have experiences with maxima?
<cliebow> rockprincess, not familiar with maxima..
<rockprincess> ace, found a superb link :)
<cbx33> hi everyone
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen ogra - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cbx33> ping LaserJock
<LaserJock> cbx33: jabber
<cliebow__> anyone played at all with linux-mint?
<highvoltage> cliebow_: what is linux-mint?
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: google for linux-mint
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: ERROR: No matches found
<juliux> highvoltage, it is a *ubuntu fork
<juliux> edubuntugirl, google for linux mint
<edubuntugirl> juliux: ERROR: No matches found
<Burgwork> highvoltage: linux mint is an ubuntu variant with multimedia codecs installed
<juliux> highvoltage, visit linuxmint.com
#edubuntu 2007-03-14
<mtec> - from edubuntu website "Take note though that the Live CD is only a workstation solution and does not contain Edubuntu's server components." does it also not include manuals?
<mtec> I tried to launch the Kturtle programing app and read the manual but the default location did not have a file
<mtec> was version 6.06
<mung107> so do y'all have many big edubuntu deployments out there?
<mung107> Bueller?
<crazy_bus> I installed edubuntu on a friends computer.  However the screen resolution only goes up to 800x600.  How can I change it to 1280x...? (My xorg.conf contains the correct resolution but the screen resolution changer doesnt seem to detect it)
<bimberi> !fixres
<ubotu> The X Window System is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type  sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart  in a console - To fix screen resolution or other X problems: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/FixVideoResolutionHowto
<bimberi> crazy_bus: see if that last link helps
<crazy_bus> thanks
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> btw, edubuntugirl got published in croatia: http://bp1.blogger.com/_pJm17kdllh0/RfcZCMfsacI/AAAAAAAAAB4/QrgVCaifgXQ/s1600-h/jutarnji.jpg
<ogra> cbx33, so
<cbx33> hey ogra
<cbx33> you're...actually here...
* cbx33 pats ogra down....
<cbx33> yes he's real :p
<cbx33> what can i do for you bud?
<ogra> yeah, apart from having to bury one of my guineapigs which died yesterday and from the meeting tonight i'm all TCM and artwork today
<cbx33> aorry to hear that dude
<ogra> so what did kwwii say `
<ogra> ?
<cbx33> we only have one little pig left
<ogra> we too
<cbx33> well he emailed lisa
<ogra> but that'll change again
<cbx33> to say...he hasn't got any time
<cbx33> and he was going to see you
<ogra> ok
<ogra> well, he didnt yet
<cbx33> that was three days ago
<cbx33> he was going to see you "tomorrow"
<ogra> given that we need something *today* ...
<ogra> as i see it, we need a wallpaper and a splash ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well....
<ogra> seems i can adapt 5the ubuntu gdm theme
<cbx33> you know what's on the palette...
<ogra> by just changing the colors
<cbx33> tonight I'm going to be really pushed to do anything
<ogra> we need a neutral wallpaper
<cbx33> i will be making themeeting though
<ogra> like the one edgy has
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I will see what I can do
<cbx33> I'll try to phone lisa and ask her to put something together
<ogra> probably only  a slight vartiation of this one ...
<ogra> less saturated, some new elements and the old ones moved a bit
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll put that to her
<cbx33> can I ask...honestly....would we be better deferring TCM to feisty   1?
<ogra> and what would we ship ?
<cbx33> scp
<ogra> we dont have SCP in the archive anymore
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> lets look at TCM ... we can cut down features that dont work
<cbx33> I'm just worried about the time we have left for testing etc
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> in that case it's basically working well
<cbx33> grab the bzr repo
<ogra> well, we can still fix bugs after beta as long as we dont need to introduce biug chunks of code
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that's cool then
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> lets focus on the big issues today, if we get them soirted we keep the feature, if not, we disable it
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> the small issues that are solvable with one two or three line changes can still be fixed
<cbx33> VNC
<cbx33> is the biggest
<cbx33> asaics
<ogra> well
<cbx33> the password system
<cbx33> plus we must sort of the Xsession issue
<cbx33> and get rid of my ugly hack
<cbx33> which was a suggestion from the ##gnome channel btw
<cbx33> not me
<ogra> i still have no idea what that Xsession issue is about
<ogra> or where to look
<cbx33> well....does it help to know what fixed it :p
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> to me it seems as if the apps just start to early
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> no
<ogra> and dbus isnt up at that time or something
<cbx33> from what I heard
<cbx33> it's not being started in the dbus session
<cbx33> so it's like running in it's own session
<ogra> right
<ogra> thats what i said above :) the app is started to late to register with a running dbus ...
<ogra> err
<cbx33> oh right
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> to early indeed :)
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> so would the solution just be to make it start up after the dbus one?
<ogra> doesnt it do that yet ?
<cbx33> I can't remember
<cbx33> it starts at 80
<cbx33> or did
<ogra> right and dbus starts at 75
<cbx33> i think that's actually after
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> so it should be ok
<cbx33> do you remember that bug someone else sent to you
<ogra> so either dbus has a delay in startup
<ogra> or we need a special way to register in its session
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> since it works if you start it after login, i suspect it might bethe delay ...
<cbx33> possibly
<cbx33> so.....can we introduce a wait in the Xsession file?
<cbx33> or will that slow down boot up
<ogra> uh, no
<ogra> find the dbus slowness (if there is one) and fix it
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> but how does my hack manage to fix it then
<ogra> i guess you work arund it ...
<ogra> i have to look at that screensaver bug
<cbx33> which one is that?
<cbx33> I can't do much here at work
<cbx33> cos I can't access bzr trees
<cbx33> sorry dude
<ogra> no http ?
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/bugs/82527 btw
<cbx33> yes that bug
<cbx33> it seems like the same issue
<ogra> i very likely is
<ogra> seb means we probably miss something form the environment which gets set by gnoe-session
<ogra> argh
<ogra> when did you drop the LTSP_CLIENT check ?
<ogra> i have scp-client's for all my sessions running if ltsp or not
<ogra> *no matter if
<ogra> cbx33, i think i got it
<ogra> the invocation is wrong in the Xsession.d script
<ogra> scp-client needs to be adeed to the $STARTUP variable instead of being called directly
<ogra> then gnome-session will start it and it will get the DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS env variable
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry that was my fault
<cbx33> what about gnome-screensaver
<ogra> same
<cbx33> awesome
<cbx33> so you gonna fix gnome-screensaver too?
<ogra> i guess the guy on the bug just runs: gnome-screensaver &
<ogra> no
<cbx33> ah i see
<ogra> its not broken
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> so...
<ogra> its just the way we start the app :)
<cbx33> what are we going to do about VNC
<ogra> i havent tested the scp-client thing yet .. give me time to fix and megre ... one thing at a time
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> oh ogra...
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> what did you mean about bzr and http?
<cbx33> I can't checkout over http
<cbx33> as it uses methods that our firewall blocks
<ogra> bzr get http://blah/branch doesnt work ???
<ogra> it shouldnt use anything else apart from http for that
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> lemme try
<cbx33> if it works....I shall aplogise
<ogra> at least for a get that should work
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> maybe I was using checkout
<ogra> so you should be able to pull local branches to work with
<ogra> well, i rather suspect you used https ;)
<cbx33> not sure
<cbx33> lol at your last bug comment :p
<RichEd> hi cbx33, jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> good evening
<RichEd> we on for a meeeting today ? ogra ?
<cbx33> hey RichEd
<ogra> RichEd, edubuntu meeting, yes
<ogra> or did you mean a different one ?
<RichEd> ogra: yes edubuntu
<ogra> yup, 20:00 UTC
<RichEd> okay ... thought it was now: /
<jsgotangco> 20UTC
<jsgotangco> thanks :P
<highvoltage> when is it an EC meeting again?
<ogra> highvoltage, last week :P
<highvoltage> I think I was there last week, but it was a quick meeting with mostly you and cbx33 there
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: by the way, morgs told me to tell you '"sudo wait for your CDs!"' 5 minutes and 41 seconds ago (on Wed Mar 14 14:35:15 2007)
<highvoltage> hie hie
<ogra> why does it need sudo ?
<highvoltage> I think he wants to force it somehow :)
<cbx33> sudo make me a sandwich
<ogra> making sandwich is surely not an admin job
<ogra> shouldnt need sudo
<ogra> ;)
<cbx33> heheh
* cbx33 wants minions
<jsgotangco> you should watch metalocalypse
<cbx33> ???
<ogra> cbx33, where is the whole history of TCM ? seems you didnt iport the SCP branch properly in https://code.launchpad.net/~petesavage/+branch/tcm/trunk
<ogra> i only see three commits ...
<cbx333> hey rpereira
<rpereira> hey cbx333
<rockprincess> howdy friends!
<ogra> cbx333, any word about the branch ?
<cbx333> no
<cbx333> i am taking a class right now
<cbx333> it's YouthLUG afternoon
<cbx333> so I' ma little tied up
<cbx333> hang on
<cbx333> just getting IRC in that room
<cbx333> I popped back to the office
<cbx33> ogra: I here
<cbx33> can i ask quickly
<ogra> sure
<cbx33> X_HORZSYNC
<cbx33> X_VERTREFRESH
<ogra> but only if you answer my question
<cbx33> what do i need to change them to
<cbx33> of course
* ogra listens ...
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> how do i setup for 1024x768 res
<ogra> hrm... what about the branch ?
<cbx33> what about it
<ogra> you need to set the right values from your monitor handbook for them ...
<cbx33> ahh ok
<ogra> my question i asked 2h ago
<cbx33> can i access it?
<ogra> 1h, sorry
<cbx33> bzr get
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> <ogra> cbx33, where is the whole history of TCM ? seems you didnt iport the SCP branch properly in https://code.launchpad.net/~petesavage/+branch/tcm/trunk
<ogra> <ogra> i only see three commits ...
<cbx33> i never saw that.....sorry
<cbx33> oh....
<ogra> the whole SCP history is missing
<cbx33> I think Ie done something youre gonna hit me for
<cbx33> we said tcm was a new product....
<ogra> nah, i dont hit people :)
<cbx33> so i started a new branch
<ogra> right
<ogra> but TCMs code has a haistory of commits
<cbx33> i guess i didn;t know how to do that
<ogra> if one day someone points at you and says "you stole our proprietary code, its that snippet here..." and you dont find the author, that gets you into bad license issues
<cbx33> right
<ogra> well, you should just have branched the scp brnch to a tcm branch
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> can i still merge them?
<cbx33> I really sorry
<ogra> i dont think so, but you can try indeed
<ogra> dont worry, its just important that we have it somewhere ...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> i'll look over it after release, just dont delete any SCP branches you have
<cbx33> well it%u015B at scp
<cbx33> yikes sorry bout that...
<ogra> it%u015B ? really ?
<cbx33> they keyboard layout on edgu edubuntu is screwy
<ogra> where ? on the main distro or on the client ?
<cbx33> client
<cbx33> i can either have UK Dvorak
<cbx33> or international with dead keys
<cbx33> i want secret option number 3
<ogra> well, set it right in lts.conf then :)
<lrep> hello, i need help with my ubuntu laptop image.
<ogra> in feisty it defaults to the servers keymap and locale
<lrep> it's been working fine for 6 month and today when i turn the laptop on
<lrep> i got mount: Mounting /dev/hda1 on /root failed: no such device
<lrep> i think this error is suggesting that i don't have a harddrive
<lrep> any ideas on resolution?
<cbx33> hmmm ok ogra
<cbx33> I still new to this edubuntu thingy
<ogra> ha ha
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33>           Horizontal: 24kHz - 80kHzFrequency          Vertical: 49Hz - 75Hz
<cbx33> ogra that%u015B all i can find
<ogra> right, so you got your values
<cbx33> i mean it works on 800x600
<cbx33> but i want 1024x768
<cbx33> how doi figure it out from that
<ogra> you dont, get the values from your monitor handbook
<cbx33> oh in that case.....there are none
<cbx33> it doesnt have them for each mode
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> i presume that%u015B what you were thinking of
<ogra> google :)
<cliebow>  cbx33:dont suppose xvidtune will help huh?
<ogra> xvidtune will help if you already run 1024x786
<ogra> err 768
<cliebow> maybe we should get together and buy Two keyboards
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i guess i cant stretch my arm long enough to reach it on your desk then :)
<cbx33> oi
<cbx33> stop taking the micky
<cliebow> linuxmint network stuff rocks..switching networks it just autodetects and works
<cbx33> is vertsync the same as vertrefresh?
<ogra> whats vertsync ?
* ogra never heard of vertsync
<cbx33> xvidtune gives vert sync
<cbx33> X_HORIZSYNC = 60.06X_VERTREFRESH = 75.08
<ogra> thats not a range
<ogra> VAR=<lowest>-<highest> is a range
<ogra> and drop the dots and digits afterwards
<cbx33> oh i see
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ahh ok
<cliebow> apt=get update works as advertised..y
<cliebow> whoops
<cliebow> Hey! seems to be on a roll this time
<ogra> cliebow, did you see the errors in a client chroot or on the desktop
<cliebow> ogra: just an ibook upgrade to feisty..but seems fine now
<ogra> ah, ok, thats known, libgnomeui0 was uninstallable for some days
<cliebow> Good: i can blame it on someone else
<cliebow> 8~)
<ogra> yes, the autobuilder who didnt get it built from source :)
* ogra takes a break
* cbx333 pokes ogra 
<cbx333> hehe
<cbx333> hello
<cbx333> off home
<cbx333> backsoon
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> ogra, how goes it?
<wolferine> <Seveas> i try to help you, you respond with personal atacks. You get banned. Simple <-- how did I personally attack you?
<ogra> Seveas, thanks
<Seveas> that was nalioth
* ogra never can remember how to get OP
<Seveas> nalioth, thanks a lot :)
<nalioth> ogra: Seveas was just the staked goat
<ogra> yeah, thanks nalioth
<Seveas> ogra, /msg chanserv op #edubuntu
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> if  /mgs chanserv help would have worked i'd have known :)
<nalioth> ogra: what irc client do you use?
<ogra> xchat
<Seveas> ogra, www.kaarsemaker.net/files/Software/chanserv.py
<Seveas> put that in your .xchat2 and you can simply use /cs o
<ogra> whee
<ogra> cool, thanks :)
<nalioth> ogra: yes, use that and read the documentation
<Seveas> after placing it in there do /py load chanserv.py
<Seveas> (one time thing, it'll be autoloaded when you start xchat)
<ogra> * Loaded Chanserv helper 1.0.1 by Seveas <dennis@kaarsemaker.net> :)
<Seveas> it can do some more fancy tricks you'll hardly ever need. If curious: first lines of the script are documentation
<Burgwork> cbx33: I finally have your chapter from mako and I am looking at it this eveing
<nalioth> y'all have fun
<ogra> cbx33, hmm, looking at the diff between revision 2 nd 3 in your branch you actually knew the right fix already, you just implemented it wrongly :)
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> ogra, yup
<cbx33> i knew i was close
<cbx33> but I'md a dumbass
<cbx33> I'm out for a while
<cbx33> will be here for the meeting
<cbx33> Burgwork, cool....anychance I can have a look?
<cbx33> take care all
<pips1> good evening and howdy
<pips1> ogra: when do you expect a 7.04 beta build to be available after the freeze tomorow?
* pips1 can be heard setting up his edubuntu testing box in the background
<ogra> pips1, just start testing as you like, i386 should be half way fine ... having the isos there is helpful anyway for rsync
<pips1> you got a point about having the iso there is helpful anyway for rsync :-) dowloading now
<ogra> RichEd-1, meeting ?
<RichEd-1> yep ...
* HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi HedgeMage ... the folks are all in the meeting room
<HedgeMage> ahh
<LaserJock> is the meeting over?
<cbx33> no
<RichEd> ping cbx33
<RichEd> chcek your /msg dude
<RichEd> *heck
<cbx33> RichEd: pm?
<cbx33> nn all
<tovella> I've been doing a lot of testing of edubuntu with feisty.  so far it's been great until the other day.  I downloaded and installed the 150 or so updates early yesterday morning (i think).  now the sound still works fine at the server, but  has stopped working on the thin clients.  any ideas?
<ogra> tovella, what exactly did you update ? the client environment as well ?
<bdoin> ogra, I have been told GCompris is no more in edubuntu in Feisty, that's true ?
<ogra> no, thats not true
<tovella> ogra: not at first, but tried that after loosing the sound.
<ogra> its not on the server (former install) CD anymore, but on the liveCD and the server-add-on CD
<bdoin> ok great, I think the guy installed the server and did not saw it
<bdoin> that makes sense, thanks.
<ogra> tovella, can you  check that libgstreamer-plugins-pulse0.10-0 and libasound2-plugins are installed on the server ?
<tovella> ogra: will do...
<ogra> bdoin, well, we moved all big apps to the add-on CD by default
<ogra> but aselection of apps like kdeedu and gcompri is used in the live session ...
<tovella> ogra: yes, both are intalled.
<ogra> usually we advise users with feisty to use the two CD approach with server/server-add-on
<bdoin> sure, I should put GCompris on a diet ;)
<ogra> well, the world should just switch to 10GB media ;)
<ogra> then i could ship half the archive ;)
<ogra> tovella, is that happening for all users ?
<tovella> ogra: yes
<bdoin> don't expect to see this soon in school, they get all the computers nobody want.
<ogra> do you currently have access to a client ?
<tovella> ogra: yes, using one as we speak.
<ogra> bdoin, thats why we decided against a DVD release and for a two CD release, most edubuntu users wont have a DVD writer
<ogra> and many wont even have a reader
<ogra> tovella, ok, lest set a root password on your clinet and check something on the console
<ogra> tovella, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<tovella> already done.
<tovella> opps. not for the chrooted envir...  hang one.
<ogra> ok, can you log in on console n the client and check if pulseaudio is in the processlist ?
<ogra> (i wouldnt advise you to set a root pw on your server .... surely not :) )
<tovella> ogra: ok, just a sec.
<ogra> ususally you also should use SCREEN_07=shell ... but the password methid works without rebooting the client
<tovella> ogra: "ps aux |grep pulse" gives me nothing.
<ogra> aha
<ogra> but you see ldm and friends ? (if you drop the grep pipe)
<tovella> ogra:  hang on...
<ogra> usually there are only a handfull of pocs running, you dont need to grep
<tovella> i've got a lot of processes running.  i don't see "ldm"
<ogra> it will be at the end of the line ...
<ogra> and start with /usr/bin/python
<tovella> ogra: no, i still don't see it there.
<ogra> not even with a grep ?
<tovella> ogra: nope.
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> but you are on the clients console, not on the server, right ?
<tovella> ogra: yes.
<tovella> .. on a thin client.
<ogra> how did you log in then ?
<ogra> ldm is the login manager of ltsp5
<ogra> do you have a lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ ?
<tovella> ogra: yes.
<ogra> can you paste it anywhere ?
<tovella> [default] 
<tovella>     SOUND=True
<tovella>     LOCALDEV=True
<tovella>     NBD_SWAP=True
<ogra> right that looks ok
<ogra> its the default file ltsp-build-client creates
<tovella> ogra: thats what i did, after re-installing the server from scratch (ltsp-build-client).
<ogra> well, i'm not sure what to say, what did you do to log in on your client if no ldm is there
<tovella> ogra: i think they decided to use gdm in fiesty.  ldm shows up as not installed.
<ogra> "they" would be me ...
<ogra> and i surely didnt drop ldm :)
<tovella> ogra: oh.
<ogra> it should be installed in the chroot, not o the server
<ogra> how did your login screen look like ? what background color did it have ?
<ogra> ldm should be white with edubuntu logo atm
<tovella> ogra: orange, just like on the server.
<ogra> gdm has a yellowish orangeish login
<ogra> oh
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> that shouldnt happen
<tovella> ogra: i noticed that when i chrooted, i got nothing from "ps".  i exited back out to the standard shell.
<ogra> you need to mount /proc to see anything in ps
<ogra> but then you will only see the servers processes indeed ...
* ogra runs ltsp-build-client to analyse ...
<tovella> ogra: chrooted to /opt/ltsp/i386, i can see that "ldm" is installed.  still, when i pxe-boot the workstation, the login manager looks much like the server - same colors, but different icons for the shutdown and reboot buttons.
<tovella> not sure if that helps.
<ogra> aha
<ogra> does it have a language and session button right under the password entry ?
<tovella> i did notice a session button, but i wasn't paying enough attention to recall if there was one for language.
<ogra> well, then you are using ldm
<tovella> ok, good.
<ogra> even though not the latest one with the white bg
<ogra> can you check which ldm version that is ?
<tovella> ogra: i'll check now..
<tovella> ogra: Version: 5.0.1
<ogra> yay, i just found a bug, great ... thanks for making me run ltsp-build-client :)
<ogra> well, that version is recent
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> so why doesnt pulse start for you then
<tovella> ogra: it may....
<tovella> ogra: ...chrooted, i tried "mount /proc /mnt/other", but I don't think I'm doing it correctly.
<ogra> no
<ogra> mount -t proc proc /proc
<tovella> ogra: ahh.
<ogra> but that wontr help you ...
<ogra> you really eed to be on the client console
<tovella> ogra: i still am.
<tovella> ogra: after mounting "ps" works (chrooted).
<ogra> right, thats the only intresting area
<tovella> ogra: still "ps" results in nothing for pulse or ldm
<ogra> so try to run pulseaudio manually (it will complain a lot and fail without the right options, but it should at least make an attempt to start)
<tovella> ogra: ok.
<ogra> as i said before the chroot wont show you *anything*
<ogra> only operate on the thin client console
<ogra> dont touch the server or X
<tovella> ogra: yes, running it manually did exactly what you said - errors, then failed.
<ogra> right
<ogra> try adding --system
<ogra> then it should start (still with errors)
<tovella> ogra: nope... did it chrooted... is that how i should have done it?  the first time (without --system) , it seemed to be looking for some files in my home directory - "'/home/ktraglin/.esd_auth': No such file or directory"
<ogra> no
<ogra> dont touch the server
<ogra> only work on the thin client in the console
<ogra> dont chroot
<ogra> dont touch any X app
<ogra> only the console of the client
<tovella> ogra: no, the server is in the other room.  i've been doing this from a terminal window.  could that be the problem?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> with thin client console i mean you need to press ctrl-alt-f1 and log in as root with the PW you have set in the chroot
<tovella> oh...sorry.... let me get out ctrl-alt-F1
<ogra> if you do anything chrooted it wont affect the client at all
<tovella> ogra: now i can see where ldm is running, "pulseaudio --system" still fails.
#edubuntu 2007-03-15
<ogra> does pulse run run there already ?
<tovella> no, "ps |grep pulse" gives me nothing.
<ogra> whats the error you get ?
<tovella> let me check...
<tovella> module.c: failed to load module "module-esound-protocol-unix" (argument: ""): initialization failed.
<tovella> main.c: Module load failed.
<tovella> main.c: failed to initialize daemon.
<tovella> ogra: sorry... i don't have any console mouse installed to copy/paste.
<ogra> try adding -n
<tovella> ok...
<ogra> that should ignore the config file (which tries to load the esd compat module)
<tovella> main.c: daemon startup without any loaded modules, refusing to work.
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> silly thing ...
<ogra> ok, but the binary is there ...
<ogra> i wonder why it doesnt start then
<ogra> add -L "module-native-protocol-tcp auth-anonymous=1"
<ogra> so we give it a module ...
<ogra> and probably -L module-detect
<ogra> so it will detect the soundcard
<tovella> ogra: will do...
<cbx33> ogra, hey dude
<ogra> yo
<tovella> ogra: module.c: Failed to open module "module-native-protocol-tcp": module-native-protocol-tcp.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory.
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> tovella, dpkg -l pulseaudio
<tovella> ok...
<ogra> should be 0.9.5-5ubuntu4
<tovella> ogra: yes, that's exactly what i see.
<ogra> same for pulseaudio-esound-compat ?
<tovella> let me check...
<tovella> ogra: yes, it's the same version.
<ogra> ok
<ogra> find the process id's of X and ldm, kill these procs, run /etc/init.d/ltsp-client start ... if X started, switch back to console and check for errors
<tovella> ogra: ok...
<cbx33> ogra, dude .... so I'm curious
<cbx33> exactly when do you sleep?
<LaserJock> cbx33: same can be said for you sometimes
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> I'm finishing up a quote for a projecy
<tovella> ogra: sorry, i got disconnected from the server...had to re-start the client.
<ogra_> same here
* ogra_ gets rid of the other slacker 
<cbx33> LaserJock, "What is the correct place to ask about..."
<cbx33> would be solved by the book idea ;)
<ogra> ah, that feels like me
<tovella> ogra: i mean i got disconnected from the edubuntu server - had to restart the thin-client.
<cbx33> lots of comments
<cbx33> LaserJock, would appreciate your thoughts after reading those
<ogra> tovella, oh, how that ?
<cbx33> ogra, btw that horiz/vert didn't do anything
<tovella> ogra: killed ldm, then X
<cbx33> unless I need to edit xorg.conf to make that mode available
<cliebow_> stil support for an entire xf86confgig file??
<ogra> tovella, that shouldnt log you out from the thin client console
<ogra> cliebow_, sure
<cliebow_> 8~)
<tovella> ogra: it did, but the login window never re-appeared.
<ogra> tovella, its not supposed to
<tovella> ogra: perhaps i screwed up somehow.
<ogra> the /etc/init.d/ltsp-client start would have given it back to you
<tovella> ...ahh, i see.  not as familiar with ltsp as i'd like to be, but i'm learning more...
<tovella> ogra: i indeed may have screwed something up... i was concerned that a session may still be active, so i did the "users" command.  it reports 2 users, though no-one else is here.  i think i should cold boot the server.
<tovella> ogra: says 2 users, but only gives a single username.
<ogra> that doesnt really matter since we only want to work on the client for now
<tovella> ogra: ok.
<ogra> so check if there is a pulse process on the client console ...
<tovella> ogra: ok... will do...
<ogra> (dont even log in on the login manager, so you dont have any dropped or hanging sessions)
<LaserJock> ogra: quick question (maybe), mdke just asked me if we should replace About Ubuntu with About Edubuntu in the gnome menu
<LaserJock> or maybe at least add it there
<ogra> if you hae an easy way to do that, i'd be happy
<ogra> *have
<tovella> ogra: i've already logged in via the login manager - using Gaim.
<ogra> ok
<LaserJock> ogra: hmm, I'll have to dig around in gnome-menus code to see how that's determined
<tovella> ogra: i did got to tty1, though.  logged in as root, and "ps aux|grep..." gives nothing for pulse
<tovella> ogra: i forgot to mention that the background for the login manager (on the thin-client) IS white.  I'd been bouncing around back and forth from the server to the client so much that my brain signals must have gotten screwed up.
<ogra> :)
<bimberi> LaserJock: /usr/share/applications/ubuntu-about.desktop (package gnome-panel-data)
<LaserJock> bimberi: wonderful, I was just thinking about that
<LaserJock> seems like an odd place to stick it
<bimberi> it took some finding :)
<bimberi> it would probably be better to have an edubuntu-about.desktop and modify the menu to use it instead
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I would guess we'd have to have both though :-/
<bimberi> dsymons@asi:/usr$ sudo grep -R ubuntu-about *
<bimberi> Binary file bin/gnome-panel matches
<bimberi> hardcoding? ;)
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure how to do it quite
<tovella> ogra: i know i've kept you tied up with this for a long time, and i really do appreciate all your help.  i don't want to keep you searching for something  i might be able to resolve on this end, though.  i've got some ideas about some other things to try... different sound card, and such.  again, thanks for all your help, and i'll let you know if i'm able to resolve this.
<ogra> LaserJock, well, its surely owned by ubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> exactly :(
<ogra> tovella, thanks :)
<LaserJock> so I don't know how it would be possible to move the .desktop
<LaserJock> ogra: actually I think the .desktop is owned by gnome-panel-data
<LaserJock> it's not in ubuntu-docs .deb
<ogra> meh
<LaserJock> although the About Ubuntu doc is
<ogra> worse then
<LaserJock> yeah, docs stink
<ogra> and one ltsp bug less ... yay
<LaserJock> I don't know why we have to have stuff in at least 3-4 different source packages to get it
<ogra> meh, i missed one commit ...
* ogra curses
<cbx33> LaserJock, why doesn't oodraw and oomath have icons?
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> they should I think
<cbx33> well they dont
<LaserJock> maybe the new OO.o look has some issues?
<cbx33> this is in edgy
<cbx33> it frustrates me
<cbx33> it's a big selling feature....esp oomath for schools/unis
<cbx33> nn
<ogra> oh crap
<ogra> cbx33 changed a ton of stuff in TCM and didnt include the new glade file
<ogra> argh
<adrenalin1983> Can someone please help me get my network up and running, I have dhcp working .. but I cant browse web pages. I am able to ping domain names. But when I attempt to apt-get update or mget something it attempts to connect to ip 1.0.0.0
<adrenalin1983> and I cant view web pages
<adrenalin1983> Anyone?
<adrenalin1983> Please this is driving me nuts
<bimberi> adrenalin1983: i've heard of this issue, give me a bit to look it up
<adrenalin1983> ok thank you I will be here waiting for ur responce
<bimberi> hm, some say it's ipv6, others an issue with resolv.conf
<adrenalin1983> ok so what do you suggest to do ?
<bimberi> !ipv6
<ubotu> To disable ipv6 read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WebBrowsingSlowIPv6IPv4
<bimberi> try that first
<adrenalin1983> ok thanks
<adrenalin1983>  will do
<bimberi> hm, seems bo be bug 81057
<bimberi> @bug 81057
<bimberi> gr
<bimberi> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/81057 "DNS Resolves everything to 1.0.0.0 intermittently on some ADSL Routers"
<bimberi> adrenalin1983: if that doesn't work, try editing /etc/resolv.conf to have the addresses of your ISP's nameservers
<adrenalin1983> ok thanks if it doesnt work ill do that
<adrenalin1983> just rebooting now Ill let you know
<adrenalin1983> ok it was ipv6
<adrenalin1983> I can browse web now just fin e
<adrenalin1983> thanks for your help
<bimberi> cool, no worries :)
<adrenalin1983> ciao for now ;)
<bimberi> cya
<adrenalin1983> hmm im back... My web browser works fine now
<adrenalin1983> but when I apt-get update it still tries to connect to 1.0.0.0
<adrenalin1983> Im sure its not the router, because atm Im at the missus's place and I connect through a computer that has a router
<bimberi> hmm, perhaps editing resolv.conf might work
<bimberi> adrenalin1983: if that doesn't work, try editing /etc/resolv.conf to have the addresses of your ISP's nameservers
<adrenalin1983> yeah ill give that a go now
<bimberi> (that was a repeat of my earlier post)
<adrenalin1983> yep that solved the apt problem :)
<adrenalin1983> thanking you muchly
<adrenalin1983> take care
<bimberi> too quick
<ogra> sigh, i give up on TCM ... :/ no chance to work on it without the right glade file :/
<ogra> night all
<ajmitch> night ogra
<crazy_bus> thanks for all your help so far.   I am currently looking for a program to teach/assist someone learning musical instruments.  Is there a program I could install to do this?
<RichEd> crazy_bus: be more specific, what do you want the programme to do ? music scripting, music composition ?
<crazy_bus> sorry I had to leave for a bit.  I was more thinking of something with flashcards of the buttons (on a instument)corresponding to a particular music note.  Or a program along similar lines as that.
<crazy_bus> but anything to do with music would also be helpful
<RichEd> crazy_bus: let me do a quick search ... back in a bit
<crazy_bus> thanks
<RichEd> crazy_bus: http://www.isd77.k12.mn.us/music/k-12music/
<RichEd> look for the section: Sites For Classroom Music Teachers
<crazy_bus> thanks for the link.  I'm reading it now
<adrenalin1983> Hi, can someone help me setup xgl on my radeon 7500
<adrenalin1983> bimberi, are you around? I spoke to you earlier today
<adrenalin1983> anyone?
<adrenalin1983> can anyone even hear me ?
<cbx33> ogra: I apologise.....I am 99% sure the package worked fine on my machine
<ogra> cbx33, i'm nearly done with a new glade file
<cbx33> ok....removing the vnc capability?
<ogra> gah, now i broke everything
<ogra> grr
<cbx33> by the way
<cbx33> the bzr get worked
<cbx33> thanks for that
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> we urgently need to do another UI session on TCM
<ogra> there is agood bunch of usability issues i'd like to solve ... but you cant have everything ...
* ogra uploads
<ogra> cbx33, where do you set the client pw for the vnc stuff ? (i mean for the preview)
<LaserJock> morningogra
<ogra> or so ..., yes
<cbx33> in the code
<cbx33> look for vncvnc
<ogra> right there is light outside, must be morning
<LaserJock> is Edubuntu doing anything for SoC?
<cbx33> i'm hopng to
<cbx33> waiting on doko
<ogra> LaserJock, sure, why not ... i'm personally not yet sure i want to mentor, but feel free :)
<LaserJock> well, I just saw on the Blue Obelisk mailing list that the chemisty projects didn't make it as sponsoring organizations
<LaserJock> I wondered if they could try getting a project via Edubuntu and I could mentor
<ogra> cbx33, oh, lisa updated the wallpaper ....
<ogra> hmm, that color is pretty ubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra: do you think that kind of thing ^^could work? I'm not very familiar with SoC
<ogra> i think that could work, but you will need to make a plausible explanatin *why* its good for edubuntu
<LaserJock> because Chemistry rules the world!!!
<LaserJock> hmm, the problem is the things I could think of are things that only I'd be interested in doing I think
<ogra> cbx33, dou you think lisa could turn the color a bit more into orange ?
<LaserJock> yeah, it's a bit difficult to us our normal Edubuntu colors on a wallpaper without getting too bright
<LaserJock> *use
<ogra> wow, i uploaded TCM 5 min before the freeze
<cbx33> I can but ask ogra
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> well done ogra
<ogra> well, lets see, we'Re in freeze now
<LaserJock> maybe a softer, faded orange would work
<cbx33> hang on
<ogra> i havent done any artwork yet
<cbx33> I havn;t even see nthe new artwork
<cbx33> it;s a binary file....that's a simple bugfix right :p
<ogra> looks way better, but its ubuntu brown
<ogra> and i need it in a reasonable size
<ogra> 1600x1200 or so
<ogra> i dont want to scale up the one from the wiki, that will look shitty
<ogra> yay
<ogra> we have until 21:00 UTC
<ogra> (for artwork)
<cbx33> ogra: she is doing it now
<cbx33> oh ok
<ogra> no hurry :)
<LaserJock> ogra: I thought our artwork was done by kwii for Feisty?
<LaserJock> or is this just additional stuff
<cbx33> hahahah
<cbx33> sent her a text she's on it
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> I'm trying to get a testamonial from a kid
<ogra> LaserJock, well ....
<ogra> ...
<ogra> ...
<ogra> .
<LaserJock> didn't work out?
<ogra> not realy
<cbx33> not exactly as we planned no
<jsgotangco> ogra: any edubuntu specific ideas for SoC?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: are you doing SoC stuff again this year?
<jsgotangco> well i can mentor again if there is space
<ogra> jsgotangco, not really, but probably RichEd has some
<RichEd> jsgotangco: ? what sort of thing are you looking for ?
<ogra> i think i'll just look through the list of submissions once thats up
<ogra> RichEd, a project for the summer of code ...
<cbx33> i hope doko got my request
<ogra> ideas for apps we want written from students for us
<cbx33> Jason is a really great guy....very enthusiastic, but realistic
<RichEd> ah ... can I browse any histoty to get ideas of the sort of scope & how big a chunk of work they can handle in the time ?
<jsgotangco> cbx33: is he of age?
<cbx33> yes
<RichEd> *history
<cbx33> he's finish
<cbx33> finnish
<cbx33> well lives in finland
<cbx33> originally from the states
<cbx33> iirc
<LaserJock> RichEd: the 2006 projects should be on the wiki somewhere
<cbx33> I offered to mentor him...
<RichEd> LaserJock: got the wiki link from jsgotangco ... t
<jsgotangco> well i would like to mentor again if possible...
<RichEd> thans
<cbx33> I know him quite well....his work on phimage was good
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I was thinking I could possibly too if the need arose
<RichEd> f.y.i. Jono Bacon and I spoke about extending the Ubuntu LoCo's into a school specific community focus ...
<ogra> RichEd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2006
<LaserJock> I guess we need to just find some projects :-)
<ogra> thats the list from last year
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: well you have to be on the list to be able to see the applications
<ogra> which reminds me ....
<RichEd> In South Africa, in Cape Town, there are a couple of SLUGS = Schools Linux User Groups ...
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> maybe we should get YouthLUG involved there ;)
<ogra> AAAAAAA .. Amaranth ? any idea if you will find time to make willow at least start again before release ?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: but there's a list on the Ubuntu wiki of some I think
<RichEd> So Jono and I were tossing around the idea of how to build up similar for the Community & LoCo effort, and link this to a drive to promote Ubuntu as a development environment.
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: well yeah
<jsgotangco> our loco will be having a nature climb next month
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> NO COMPUTERS
<cbx33> jsgotangco: that's not possible :p
<jsgotangco> cbx33: sure
<cbx33> you must take just one
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: is/was there a deadline for signing up as mentors
<cbx33> with ubuntu on it
<cbx33> LaserJock: doko and Keybuk are dealing with it all this year
<jsgotangco> cbx33: we all agreed we won't add more carbon dumping during the trk
<jsgotangco> trek
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: not even the kind hiding as cell phones? :-)
<jsgotangco> well we will do cellphones and gps
<jsgotangco> but we won't summit with a laptop
<jsgotangco> hehe
<LaserJock> heh
<RichEd> Do the project apps in question have to be linux apps, or can they be web based applications ?
<jsgotangco> i can try smuggling a PDA
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> lol
<ogra> RichEd, they need to be shippable by us and gain us anything for ubuntu/edubuntu
* RichEd gives jsgotangco the rubber gloves and deep inspection kit
<cbx33> did I tell people about Coon?
<jsgotangco> Coon?
<cbx33> Jasons idea for a project
<cbx33> for GSoC
<jsgotangco> cbx33: url
<cbx33> it;s to keep track of students grades and marks
<cbx33> none as yet
<cbx33> and do some rudimentary analysis
<cbx33> i think it's a pretty good idea
<jsgotangco> well he can submit a proposal
<cbx33> already has
<jsgotangco> come on let me join again, i badly need another t-shirt
<jsgotangco> lol
<RichEd> ogra: and say we wanted to have an web site application review area, where the apps were registered into a database, and submissions rated, and then it was searchable by age group, type, and order of popularity, would that classify ... it's not really shippable.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: now you sound like someone who works for a non-profit ;)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: it should be deliverable within the prescribed period by Google
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> RichEd, not sure, we didnt have such projects yet ... usually they are small gui tools or something
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: yeah hahaha
* jsgotangco is learning the politics of non profits already
<RichEd> okay thanks ... just mulling over possibilities and trying to understand the constraints.
<LaserJock> I'm my own non-profit :(
<RichEd> will give it some thought
<ogra> i had one project that resulted in a little app to select windows drivers for network cards that could only run with them for example ...
<ogra> a very trivial app
<jsgotangco> RichEd: if its workable in 3-4 months it would be feasible
<highvoltage> LaserJock: being your own non-profit is the best kind
<cbx33> highvoltage: hmmm
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> jsgotangco, btw, what became of your last project, it looked promising
<jsgotangco> ogra: well i told him he should have it in REVU but he didn't do much of it
<jsgotangco> but he delivered packages even
<ogra> sad
<ogra> so its usable ?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: thanks ... most of what I envisage would be a drupal submission form, and then the rest is just database search links. not to much effort or genius level.
<jsgotangco> it is
<ogra> GAH
<jsgotangco> ogra: do you me to look into it again?
<jsgotangco> want
<ogra> please ping me very loud if feisty+1 starts
<ogra> so we get it in
<jsgotangco> ok
<jsgotangco> i should be active once feisty+1 starts as well
<cbx33> :)
<jsgotangco> active again
<cbx33> w00t
<ogra> now its to late ... no new packages for universe if i'm right
<cbx33> we've missed you jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> toleef just send an email regarding beta freeze
<jsgotangco> me missed?
<LaserJock> ogra: not since Feb. 22nd
<jsgotangco> now that's something new
<ogra> LaserJock, righ
<ogra> t
<jsgotangco> ogra: http://sourceforge.net/projects/py-education
<cliebow> someone rattled my chains?
<ogra> cbx33, another hug to store for lisa until you are home ....
<ogra> that wallpaper is slick :)
<ogra> hmm, but with 900x720 still to small
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> can i take a peek?
<cbx33> she has the high version
<highvoltage> man I wish we could have this glade in ubuntu already: http://www.gnome.org/start/2.18/notes/en/figures/figure-glade-big.png
* mode/#edubuntu [-o HedgeMage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> oops
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> this is glade 3 right
<highvoltage> I think so. it's the new one in gnome 2.18
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<cbx33> jsgotangco: there it is
<jsgotangco> thanks!
<jsgotangco> it certain has anime feel with those doe eyes
<jsgotangco> wow is that a gdm mockup
<cbx33> heeh
<cbx33> that was an ldm mockup
<cbx33> and maybe something for feisty   1
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I've been using "that glade" for a while, it's pretty nice
<LaserJock> highvoltage: the .glade files (at least in my case) are a lot smaller too
<highvoltage> LaserJock: nice. how did you install it? is there a deb, or did you compile from source?
<LaserJock> Feisty
<LaserJock> apt-get away
<highvoltage> hmmm.. I apt-getted it just a few minutes ago, and I still have glade 2.12.1 :/
<LaserJock> well, there are separate packages for glade 3
<highvoltage> aaah
<LaserJock> so 2 & 3 can coexist
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> but glade 3 is a leap forward to being  really usable
<LaserJock> yeah, it is much nicer, IMO
<highvoltage> heh, glade-3 just crashed on me
<ogra> worked fine here for me the whole night
<ogra> could someone suggest which of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette we should take as the "young" flavor ? (the top one will be the default bg, i'm just waiting for a bigger sized version)
<jsgotangco> i am not so sure with doe-eyed kids in swimsuits
<ogra> yep, i find that to young as well
<ogra> for the one with the nimbers at the bottom its unlikely that we'll get is in time in the right size ... i'm not sure lisa has the original one to resize it
<ogra> *numbers
<jsgotangco> i prefer the light blue palette with the abstract art
<jsgotangco> the others look subtle to me
<ogra> which one exactly (counted from the top)
<jsgotangco> the 2nd one
<ogra> :
<ogra> (
<ogra> blue ?
<jsgotangco> i just dunno how you will be able to make a good palette for that
<jsgotangco> yeah my sentiments exactly
<ogra> so well look like a mix of xubuntu and kubuntu ?
<ogra> well, thats why lisa reworked it in orange
<LaserJock> well, we do have XFCE4 and KDE Edu, right?
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> i was looking for something for the young theme
<jsgotangco> well the first one doesn't really look "young" to me
<ogra> the first one is the default
<jsgotangco> its the same artwork but the color doesn't jive
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<ogra> the second one is the previous version
<ogra> which of the ones below these would suit for a young theme (prescool etc) ?
<jsgotangco> well the other one with the 3 kids with the giant edubuntu logo looks like something that came out of american idol (no offense meant)
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> but we LOVE Idol!!
<LaserJock> :-)
<jsgotangco> well the last one before the ldm mockup is nice
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: yeah Americans do
<jsgotangco> but 3/4 of the world ain't americans
<ogra> right, thats the one we cant get in  a reasonable size
<LaserJock> it's also got a lot of math
<ogra> since its not from lisa and i doubt we'll get it updated in time
<jsgotangco> i am guessing lisa drew from a paper and scanned it so everything is rasterized?
<ogra> but it would be my favoite as well
<ogra> no, she does vectors usuallyx
<ogra> but thats not from her
<jsgotangco> ahh
<jsgotangco> oh!
<ogra> its something she got mailed
<ogra> and i suspect only in this size
<jsgotangco> it would have been nice if the girl was facing even sideways
<ogra> which is 900x675
<jsgotangco> it doesn't look good to have someone not facing you
<ogra> well, she has a gnome foot on the backpack at last ... :)
<jsgotangco> tell you what
<jsgotangco> let's put the american idol wallpaper
<jsgotangco> let's look at the public reaction heh
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=senior.jpg this one ?
<LaserJock> what about the one below the "Idol" one?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> or the one below
<jsgotangco> we'll still look like kubuntu with the purple palette
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=senior2.jpg
<ogra> ?
<ogra> well, its not the default
<ogra> it wont really fit into the rest though ...
<jsgotangco> senior2.jpg looks workable
<jsgotangco> at least its not so "out there"
<jsgotangco> but hey, we're not kids
<ogra> right
<jsgotangco> the kids might digg the first one though
<ogra> i just dont want to do a parrot release
<jsgotangco> we might even start a fashion trend
<LaserJock> Edubuntu: Linux of Idol Fans :-)
<LaserJock> *for
<jsgotangco> heck yeah we might even penetrate the angst-filled adolescent crowd if we put in metalocalypse or something sinister
<LaserJock> ohhh
<LaserJock> pink skulls
<LaserJock> my cousins are into pink skulls on black
<LaserJock> we could call it EmoEdubuntu ;-)
<ogra> PINK SKULLS !
<ogra> do they have a wallpaper we could ship as default ?
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> ive been watching the heavenly bodies too much lately
<jsgotangco> i got myself a dobsonian telescope and its so much fun
* ogra got himself a bicycle on tuesday .... against the big fat belly he got
<ogra> now i just need to overcome myself and actually use it :)
* LaserJock needs to get a life
<ogra> why ?
<ogra> thats totally overrated
<LaserJock> eat, sleep, Ubuntu, rinse, repeat
<highvoltage> a life. who needs it?
<LaserJock> the weather here is awesome
<jsgotangco> same here lately
<LaserJock> and I'm annoyed that the sun is so bright
<jsgotangco> its almost summer
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> brb
<bddebian> Heya
<ogra> could someone who has a bit of bandwith and diskspace do a ltsp-build-client with the 5.0.2 package ? i need to make sure the /proc/fd issue is fixed, for me it works fine
<cbx333> hmm
<cbx333> lemme see
<ogra> probably purge ltsp-server and -standalone before and reinstall them
<cbx333> i don;t have a feisty one here
<cbx333> i can do it when i get home
<cbx333> is that any good to you?
<ogra> i couldnt see any /proc issues, but cliebow just reported them
<ogra> so i'm a bit worried
<cbx333> hmm
<cbx333> unfortunately unless I install those pacakges on my edgy system?
<cbx333> would that even work?
<cbx333> I can't test till i get home?
<ogra> it wont work on edgy
<cbx333> ok
<ogra> all the sounds stuff is missing there
<cbx333> sorry dude
<cbx333> ahh
<cbx333> but
<cbx333> building the client would work wouldn't  it?
<cbx333> if i point it at the fesity sources
<cbx333> oh
<highvoltage> ogra: I have a 6-day old local feisty archive, is there something small I could download to test it, or do I need to download the whole 300MB+?
<ogra> highvoltage, well, you could point ltsp-build-client to it ... the ipmortant part is the ltsp-build-cleint itself works fine ... the packages might be outdated, i dont care
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, I will be able to do that in about 5 minutes
<ogra> i just need a proof it gets beyond the base install and doesnt choke on /proc/fd ... if it gets to the point where it instals packages with apt its already beyond that point and can be stopped
<cbx333> cool
<ogra> thanks !
<cliebow> dpkg -l ltsp-server-standalone clearly shows 5.0.2
<ogra> and ltsp-server ?
<cliebow> 0.124
<ogra> (which is the important package ... -standalone is only a metappkg)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> ok
<ogra> thast the edgy version of ltsp-server iirc :)
<ogra> you should update it :)
<cliebow> ok..
<ogra> thats calming ...
<cbx333> ogra: you need that
<ogra> i was thinking 5.0.2 might have the same issue still :)
<highvoltage> ogra: building...
<ogra> and i guess i should find a way to glue the two packages together via a versioned dependency
<ogra> highvoltage, i guess it will work ... cliebow was running 0.124 instead of 5.0.2
<cliebow> i see mount-proc is gone..that i hope is a good sign
<highvoltage> ogra: mine failed :-/
<highvoltage> ln: creating symbolic link `/dev/fd' to `/proc/self/fd': File exists
<highvoltage> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<cliebow> Balls!
<ogra> dpkg -l ltsp-server ?
<highvoltage> hmmm, it says 0.134
<highvoltage> I upgraded ltsp-server-standalone
<cliebow> i did as well
<ogra> no, you need to upgrade both or ltsp-server
* highvoltage upgrades ltsp-server
<cliebow> .124?
<highvoltage> cliebow: mine said .134, I copied and pasted it
<ogra> 0.134 was the last one of the 0. series
<ogra> after that it became 5.0.1
<cliebow> ok...i know my typing plus or minus several keys 8!)
<ogra> its two versions behind
<ogra> while ...
<ogra> ltsp (0.124) edgy; urgency=low
<ogra> ...
<ogra> ltsp (0.125) feisty; urgency=low
<ogra>   * switch package to feisty as default distro
<ogra> :)
<ogra> cliebow, so it seems you did build edgy chroots all the time
<highvoltage> ogra: it built successfully
<ogra> yeah :)
<ogra> thanks a lot
* highvoltage is glad to have a working ltsp on laptop again
<ogra> you just did update the package, right
<ogra> ?
<highvoltage> ogra: I got a *real* cool idea for a LTSP plugin
<highvoltage> ogra: yes
<ogra> tell me
<highvoltage> ogra: it basically sets up the LTSP bits, but not the /opt/ltsp/<arch> chroot
<ogra> you mean it sets up netbooting but nothing else
<ogra> right ?
<highvoltage> ogra: then, you prompt the user for an ubuntu CD, and it copies the casper system to where the chroot should be, and whalla, you have a network livecd/installer
<ogra> highvoltage, we have such a setup already, ask lifeless )
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> really? ok. :)
<ogra> he installed ton of systems at LCA from that :)
<highvoltage> I thought that was just for the text-based installer
<ogra> just netboot your laptop and clien the install icon
<ogra> *click
<highvoltage> cool
<ogra> no, its a special setup he made but there is a howto for it
* highvoltage thinks it would make a nice 'installfest' plugin
<ogra> but apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone && mount /dev/hdc /opt/ltsp/i386 should work similar
<ogra> (if hdc is you CD indeed)
<ogra> probably you need an extra ltsp-update-kernels ...
<highvoltage> cool! :)
* highvoltage will try that
<ogra> cbx333, any news from lisa about bigger sized images ?
<ogra> cbx333, we'd need orange.jpg and (as we just discussed before) senior2.jpg at 1600x1200
<cbx333> ogra: didn't you see above
<cbx333> lisa has large versions
<ogra> can i get them ...
<ogra> i'm getting bored here
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> sorry
<ogra> waiting for kwwii as well for the gnome splash without logo ...
<cbx333> mail to you?
<ogra> seems that fits well in to the colorschme
<cbx333> ogra@ubuntu.com
<ogra> yep
<ogra> or put them somewhere
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> re
<mattva01> hmm are their any edubuntu feisty releases out there?
<mattva01> or could I just install the edubutu packages on top of ubuntu fiesty
<LaserJock> mattva01: Herd 5 is out
<mattva01> oh ok
<mattva01> how stable is it ATM?
<LaserJock> oh, depends on your definition of stable
<LaserJock> I run it regularly and it works fairly well
<LaserJock> you might consider waiting for the Beta release
<LaserJock> which is scheduled for the 22nd
<cbx333> lisa said when do you want the other wallpapers
<ogra> yeah ... next week ...
<mattva01> hmm yeah i think i'll wait
<ogra> cbx333, i only need orange and senior2
<cbx333> what about the others?
<cbx333> we were asked for 4 wallpapers
<cbx333> primary/secondard/uni and plain
<cbx333> please don't tell lisa that she didn't need to do the other two.....
<cbx333> can they not go in the artwork package? as alternatives
<cbx333> and we have the community wallpaper too
<cbx333> ogra: ?
<ogra> we dont have any other alternatives, but i can add them so they are hped
<ogra> *shipped
<ogra> edubuntu-artwork only has three modes, default/young/plain
<cbx333> yes please
<cbx333> ok
<ogra> plain has no wallaper ...
<cbx333> i see
<cbx333> that's fine
<cbx333> as long as they are added
<cbx333> phew
<ogra> and we discussed that we want senior2 as the default for the young theme
<ogra> all others can go in the package and be dropped into /usr/share/pixmaps
<ogra> even though that will cause problems on the liveCD
<ogra> since it will get to big
<cbx333> oh
<cbx333> it's a shame we can't create a second artwork package
<cbx333> no time now
<ogra> we can, but not after beta
<mattva01> oh quick question, can a AMD64 LTSP server host i386 thin clients
<ogra> sure
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
<ogra> run that :)
<cbx333> ogra: awesome
<cbx333> would it just have to be a simple package to insstall the files in the /usr/share/backgrounds dir?
<cbx333> if so I can create that tonight
<ogra> we're in peta freeze
<cbx333> oh
<ogra> *beta
<cbx333> lisa will probably give up edubuntu art work
<cbx333> what
<cbx333> i didn't say that
<cbx333> i said this <cbx333> no time now<ogra> we can, but not after beta
<ogra> who did tell you you need four wallpapers ?
<ogra> s/beta/betafreeze/
<cbx333> my apologies for that comment about lisa.....do not take it out of context
<cbx333> ignore it
<ogra> who did tell you you need four wallpapers ?
<ogra> we always had two ...
<cbx333> well....
<cbx333> it stemmed from the fact that we had three themes
<ogra> and i wasnt planning to change that ...
<cbx333> and
<ogra> so i wonder who said that
<cbx333> we were targetting primary
<cbx333> secondary
<cbx333> and university
<mattva01> thanks ogra
<ogra> secondary = default
<ogra> university = plain
<ogra> primary = young
<cbx333> ok
<cbx333> well there obviously was a communication mixup
<cbx333> it was in the meetings I'm sure
<ogra> right, seems like
<cbx333> so what can we do...
<cbx333> i think they are awesome
<cbx333> is there no way we can include them?
<cbx333> or are we stuck
<ogra> lets see how the liveCD looks tomorrow
<cbx333> ok
<ogra> its really a matter of space
<ogra> introducong a new package *now* is a nono
<cbx333> that's fine
<cbx333> well i did speak of it about 2 meetings ago
<ogra> if they fit into the existing one its ok ... if not we cant do much
<cbx333> but i guess i didn't express it's importance...and pls I didn't create it
<cbx333> so it really is my fault
<cbx333> sorry
<ogra> dont say sorry all the time !
<cbx333> so......ok
<LaserJock> well, if we have space on the CD it should be easy enough
<ogra> right
<ogra> but we dont have space on the cd
<cbx333> he
<LaserJock> we don't?
<cbx333> we need to png crush them too
<ogra> not on the liveCD
<LaserJock> ohhh, yeah
<ogra> the liveCD contents didnt change at all
<LaserJock> I forgot the liveCD
<ogra> we have tons of space on the server CD
* LaserJock wishes we could drop the LiveCD
<ogra> and twice as much on the add-on CD
<cbx333> but still we're in beta so no new packages
<cbx333> crap
<cbx333> LaserJock: no way dude
<cbx333> the live cd is going to do big things for us here
<LaserJock> not if we can't put things on it
* cbx333 is pioneering a scheme to brand it to the school and distribute
<cbx333> so kids get nice free software
<LaserJock> ogra: does the liveCD have LTSP stuff on it?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> no space
<LaserJock> so it's just a rebranded Ubuntu?
<cbx333> not rebranded so much
<ogra> its edgys edubuntu-desktop ...
<LaserJock> so it has edu apps?
<ogra> wih new apps and artwork ...
<cbx333> just Edubuntu with out schools logo in the wallpaper
<ogra> indeed
<cbx333> and probably adding new apps yes and removing others
<ogra> but ubiquity wont install them
<cbx333> my boss is extactic about it
<ogra> you need the add-on CD for that
<cbx333> ubiquity will be disabled
<LaserJock> cbx333: I was talking about the live CD, but yeah
<cbx333> so am i
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu LiveCD
<cbx333> yes
<cbx333> that's what I'm taking as a base
<cbx333> and remastering it
<cbx333> to distribute
<LaserJock> I'm not talking about your thing though, is what I'm saying
<cbx333> oh i see
<cbx333> sorry
<LaserJock> I'm just talking about what Edubuntu is shipping
<LaserJock> no ubiquity though?
<LaserJock> just keep it Live?
<cbx333> for me yes
<cbx333> if they want to install they get a proper edubuntu cd
<cbx333> no branding
<LaserJock> hmm, that seems pretty cool
<cbx333> as a way to both increase OSS usage
<cbx333> and press for the school
<cbx333> blogging about it later
<cbx333> so please don't drop the live cd ;)
<ogra> we wont
<LaserJock> cbx333: well, you could do it from Ubuntu easy enough
<ogra> ubuntu will probably drop alternate at some point
<LaserJock> but no, I wasn't serious when I said it
<cbx333> :(
<cbx333> phew
<cbx333> hehe
<ogra> if ubiquity knows about all installation variants
<LaserJock> it's just that the  LiveCD isn't terribely useful for us
<ogra> right
<cbx333> us as edubutnu community?
<ogra> but very promotional
<cbx333> indeed
<ogra> its helpful for conferences etc ...
<cbx333> ogra did i hear you say something about LTSP being included on the CD
<ogra> beyond that i'm not after it either
<ogra> cbx333, on the live CD ?
<ogra> nope
<cbx333> yes
<cbx333> :(
<ogra> no space
<LaserJock> well, I just wonder if the LiveCD will become farther and farther from the "real" Edubuntu CDs
<ogra> it will
<cbx333> in what way?
<LaserJock> so at some point it won't be an accurate "demo"
<ogra> it already is far away from it
<cbx333> only available apps
<cbx333> but the ubuntu live cd isn't a true demo of ubuntu either imho
<ogra> the install wont give you the same desktop as the liveCD shows
<LaserJock> cbx333: sure but then there's not much difference between that and an Ubuntu live
<ogra> ubuntu s 100% the same as the installed system
<ogra> edubuntu isnt ...
<ogra> and will divert further
<cbx333> in tecnicality yes
<cbx333> but how many people use ubuntu in it's defualt state
<cbx333> i mean
<cbx333> hmmm
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that maintanence-wise, the LiveCd for Edubuntu could probably be made via Reconstructor or UCK easily
<ogra> cbx333, most ?
<cbx333> i belive far more customisation and installation of ubuntu happens than edubuntu
<LaserJock> cbx333: well, quit a fe actually
<LaserJock> *few
<LaserJock> many users don't change much of anything
<cbx333> hmm
<ogra> s/many/most
* cbx333 thinks if that were the case we woldn't have universe
<LaserJock> they might install a few things here or there to get graphics, etc. right
<ogra> right
<cbx333> I must installover 50 apps for my basica desktop
<LaserJock> well, we didn't have Universe enabled by default for a long time
<cbx333> but universe wouldn't exist unless someone wanted a pacakge n there
<ogra> do we now ?
<LaserJock> yes
<ogra> i dont think we do
<LaserJock> cjwatson said as of Herd 5 we should
<cbx333> I'm not talking about dev stuff either
<ogra> i thought g-a-i enables it on demand ?
<LaserJock> nah, I think because of all the "bling" stuff they went ahead an enabled it by default
<LaserJock> for easy-codec
<cbx333> ahh
<ogra> evil
* cbx333 can't wait for songbird
* ogra didnt know
<cbx333> hehe
<LaserJock> we had to change the documentation
<cbx333> will that be the same in edubuntu too?
<ogra> sure
<cbx333> shi*
<cbx333> then i need to mail my editor
<ogra> well, form a user POV its awesome
<cbx333> unless mako already caught that
<ogra> but from a dev POV its horrible
<cbx333> i had to add a section about turning on universe
<cbx333> :(
<LaserJock> cbx333: well, that still applies to < feisty
<cbx333> yes i sppose
<cbx333> but it should really be noted
<ogra> YAY, wallpapers
<cbx333> from lisa?
<ogra> the default one is really beautiful, i like it
<ogra> yep
<cbx333> good
* ogra tends to actually use the default theme we ship for 6 months
<cbx333> heheh
<LaserJock> me too
* cbx333 liked edgy wallpaper
<cbx333> but then I'm biased
<cbx333> bt i love the feisty one
* ogra still uses the edgy one ...
<ogra> since i got it from you
<LaserJock> so what's the new default? the first one on the Palette page?
<cbx333> each part of that image has a story ;)
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> \o/
<cbx333> LaserJock: knows about one part of it ;)
<ogra> i just got that one http://sinecera.de/session_for_ogra.png
<LaserJock> I told my labmates that my molecule made it around the world
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx333> hehe
<cbx333> the equation is the 3D wave equation
<cbx333> ogra should recoqnise that one
<cbx333> :p
<cbx333> or an impementation of it
<LaserJock> ogra: is that the new gnome splash?
<ogra> the base
<LaserJock> looks pretty good
<ogra> i need to do some nifty logo stuff on top ...
<cbx333> the flower is from http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/5751652/?qo=61&q=by%3Asilentkeystroke&qh=sort%3Atime -in%3Ascraps
<ogra> well, it fits the colors
<Amaranth> ogra: willow seems to work the same as ever here
<Amaranth> what problems are you having?
<cbx333> the code is from student control panel ;)
<ogra> Amaranth, it didnt start the last time i tried, just hung silently ...
<ogra> Amaranth, i'll test it the next days if i have some spare time for that
<ogra> its a while ago that i tested (before MV)
<cbx333> wow
<ogra> RichEd, getting basic integration of parental control as a SoC project would be helpful btw
<RichEd> ogra: good idea ... can you mail or /msg me an outline or example and I will draft a description basic spec
<ogra> RichEd, will do in the SoC preparation ... we'll need to come up with suggestions anyway i think (at least we had to during the last ones)
<LaserJock> I asked the Blue Obelisk guys this morning
<cbx333> right I have to go now
<LaserJock> about possible Edubuntu SoC projects
<LaserJock> but almost all of their stuff is Java
<LaserJock> which is kinda hard to justify for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> and the Kalzium dev is already got a project planned via KDE
<cbx333> ok...
<cbx333> I'm off
<LaserJock> I'd love to do a gchemutils project
<ogra> ciao cbx333
<LaserJock> cya cbx333
<cbx333> thanks ogra
<ogra> thanks as well :)
<LaserJock> kalzium and pretty soon gchemutils are really going to rock
<LaserJock> "Not you grand dads periodic table"
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> they are going to be fairly complete chemistry education suites
<ogra> cool
<LaserJock> Kalzium's SoC project is to get 3D viewing of atoms all the way up to proteins
<RichEd> LaserJock: was that FLOSS PDF doc useful ? any good stuff ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: oh, yes. That was pretty good. I't really hard to find updated and "useful" references like that
<LaserJock> I either get lists of edu software that's mostly dead
<LaserJock> or just a list with no description
<LaserJock> stuff like that
<RichEd> I've also got a flemish one, but its in hard copy. It is also updated properly anually.
<LaserJock> UES should produce some good stuff shouldn't it?
<LaserJock> I'm still a little hazy about what all is going to be done in 2 days
<LaserJock> ogra: do you know, is X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain used to get a .desktop translated?
<ogra> yep afaik
<ogra> pitti knows details
* ogra finds it funny that he always fears we have to release without artwork ... and then everything just falls in place ...
<ogra> i should panic less
<RichEd> LaserJock: we've got 4-6 people wanting to present on their installations / experience : tuXlabs, meDUXa, Uni of Delhi, Georgia Schools Project, KDE Edu
<RichEd> So that will be a stream for people wanting to hear about large scale projects
<LaserJock> well, sometimes the panic is needed to get everything to fall into place ;-)
<RichEd> And the parallel stream is for technical discussions / BOFs with contributors and partners etc. Any spec / feature ideas or requirements will move into UDS and proceed via the usual process.
<LaserJock> RichEd: oh, if I end up going will you want me to present anything or do I just stand back and soak it all in? :-)
<LaserJock> I'm guessing this is more "user time"
<RichEd> I'd see you more in the Tech Stream ... with the hackers. The other stream is for decision makers who are looking to take the leap into Open Source and who need comfortable anecdotes and examples to give them faith.
<MrWizard14> My screen resolution is screwed up
<MrWizard14> plz help
<RichEd> LaserJock: You may very well be called upon to host a BOF, around the Junior/Senior/Uni apps and config.
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, cool. I just wondered
* MrWizard14 is confused
* MrWizard14 is trying to fix a school computer
* RichEd is off to make supper for the kids
* MrWizard14 really needs help
<MrWizard14> think of the kids
<LaserJock> MrWizard14: so what's it doing?
<MrWizard14> it's zoomed in very crazily
<LaserJock> I'm not much help, but I given me such guilt ;-)
<MrWizard14> so half the window is cut off
<LaserJock> MrWizard14: ok, but other than that it looks "normal"?
<LaserJock> MrWizard14: also, what release of Edubuntu is this?
<LaserJock> ok
<cbx33> it's all quiet now
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> ok, I found the About Ubuntu .desktop file
<LaserJock> and it doesn't look too mysterious
<LaserJock> so I should be able to add an About Edubuntu one
<LaserJock> in edubuntu-docs
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> beta freeze
<LaserJock> hmmm
<ogra> if its oly a small change we can do it
<ogra> -docs needs fixes anyway before release, no ?
<LaserJock> well, adding the About Edubuntu icon would be the biggest change
<LaserJock> the other stuff is just tweaking the yelp front page and making sure our content is right
<LaserJock> the only thing is that I don't think I can easily get rid of the About Ubuntu icon
<ogra> that should be possible to get in ... we can talk to Mithrandir after beta
<LaserJock> it's shipped in gnome-panel-data
<ogra> lets keep it then :)
<ogra> we dont need to hide our inheritance
<LaserJock> no, I think it's especially a step forward since we've been using only Ubuntu docs until now
<ogra> yep
* cbx33 is looking at search strings linking to his blog
<cbx33> "cite a problem of linux and a possible solution for the problem"
<cbx33> me detects a homework problem
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I don't think I've been used for homework yet
<carsten> moin
<highvoltage> moin moin
<highvoltage> how are you, carsten?
<LaserJock> hi carsten
<carsten> Hungry as hell :-)
* carsten will be on the cebit for 3 days, starting tomorrow
<highvoltage> heh, too busy to eat, I presume
<carsten> highvoltage: to lazy to go to the kitchen :)
<highvoltage> heh
<mrwizard14> How do I deal with a wierdly set screen resolution?
<highvoltage> mrwizard14: that would depend on what's wierd about it
<Burgwork> cbx33: congrats
<cbx33> Burgwork, on?
<Burgwork> getting Edubuntu into your school
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> it's getting there alright
<cbx33> plenty more planned
<cbx33> Burgwork, chapter?
<Burgwork> heh
<Burgwork> sorry, I was dealing with server stuff last night, so I completely forgot
* cbx33 pokes Burgwork 
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> s'ok dude
* cbx33 is just curious to see what changes have been made
<cbx33> also.....we may need to drop a small section
<cbx33> or make a slight change
<cbx33> as ubuntu now ships with universe enabled
<cbx33> as of herd 5
<LaserJock> cbx33: make sure to check it out on Edubuntu
<LaserJock> it's *supposed* to, but I haven't verified it
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that's why I said "may" :p
<ogra> hmm, somehow feisty turns into the tan release
<cbx33> oooh maybe I should reboot and upgrade
<ogra> you should probably wait until i uploaded a package and that built
<ogra> i'm not yet done ... figthing with font colors for gdm
<cbx33> well i was talking about ubuntu in general
<cbx33> oh i see
<cbx33> is it looking nice though?
<cbx33> thanks ogra you rock
<ogra> well
<cbx33> I'll try and help out a bit with that side of things in feisty + 1
<ogra> its not looking bad ... not better or worse than the dutch release
<ogra> less saturated
<ogra> but indeed that gets us in the tanned skin area ... which is slightly boring
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I feel like a walking blog at the moment
<cbx33> A walking apologetic blog
<LaserJock> join the club
<LaserJock> or should I say planet
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cbx33> hmm...maybe I shou.....wait a minute...I already am
<Burgwork> cbx33: have patience young one (I think you are younger than me)
<cbx33> I show you mine if you show me yours ( age in years :p )
<cliebow>  grasshopper!
<cbx33> i have to say that for highvoltage's sake
<cbx33> he got all kinky last night in the meeting
* Burgwork is 24
<cbx33> oh no
* cbx33 is 25
<cbx33> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooo
<Burgwork> you know that life ends after 25...
<cbx33> wow.....I just learnt something cool
<cbx33> hold down o and the press the shift key on and off.....i never knew a keyboard let you do that
<Burgwork> heh
<cbx33> how the hell do you win a level on neverball
* cbx33 is taking a break
<cliebow> cbx33: so what is tcm written in?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: you're still 24?
<cbx33> python
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> maybe he's lying LaserJock
<Burgwork> LaserJock: 25 in august
<LaserJock> hmm
<cbx33> maybe he can't count past 24
<cliebow> i must be the old fart around her
* LaserJock counts
<cbx33> and so lives in perpetual youth
<Burgwork> heh
<cbx33> must be nice
<LaserJock> I *though* I was 25, but I also thought I was as old as both cbx33 and Burgwork
<cbx33> good on you Burgwork you don't need to count to code...
<cliebow> add you two together and i still got 8 years on you
<LaserJock> *thought*
<cbx33> Y2K taught us that
<cbx33> LaserJock, maybe you were at two different points in time
<LaserJock> maybe
* cbx33 envisages the intersecting graphs
<cliebow> must be circling a black hole..
<LaserJock> it's really bad when I have to actually figure out how old I am
<cbx33> yeh i hate that too
<LaserJock> not like just pause to remember
<cbx33> I'm getting worse at it too
<LaserJock> but like "OK, I was born in 1981 so ...."
<Burgwork> my gf was born in 1979
* cbx33 too
* cbx33 won't say when his wife was born
<cbx33> i may be accused of things
<LaserJock> Burgwork: my wife was born *almost* in 1979
<Burgwork> you are married cbx33?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> that suprises you?
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> cbx33: do it do it! how old is she
<cbx33> haha
<LaserJock> we promise not to tell
<Burgwork> yes
* LaserJock crosses his fingers
<cbx33> yes you're suprised
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> well let's just say she's younger than me
<cbx33> by almost 4 years
<Burgwork> we promise to tell, although the public archived logs might tell a different story
<cbx33> dong nang it
<cbx33> tricked by your genuine charms
<cbx33> both of you need to keep those on a leash
* cbx33 notices the room has gone quiet
<cbx33> you'd better not be blogging about this y'all
* cbx33 is fed up with his blog design
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> man, she was young then when you go married
<cbx33> you do the math
<cbx33> 3 year wedding anniversay in august :p
<LaserJock> 3?!?
<LaserJock> so .... 18?
<cbx33> yup
<Burgwork> wow
<Burgwork> my ex's cousin got married at 17
<Burgwork> to another 17 year old and the church they were to be married burned in a giant forest fire 2 weeks before
<cbx33> eeek
<Burgwork> as they were deeply religious, my ex and i speculated that this just might be a sign from God
* Burgwork is an athiest
<cbx33> darn it
<cbx33> no good themes on worpdresses site either
<cbx33> i cba to make one up
<cbx33> right off to relax for a while
<cbx33> play some FF XII
<Burgwork> cbx33: I want to pick your brains about a web-frontend to tcm
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> in a little while ok?
<Burgwork> sure
<cbx33> thanks dude
<Burgwork> I will be at work for another 5 hours
<cbx33> my brain is fried today
<cbx33> at work ok?
* LaserJock tests the new restricted-manager
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> LaserJock: pretty boring, but infinitely useful
<Burgwork> btw, I recommend everybody try out the new gimmie applet
<Burgwork> it rocks
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I saw you blogged about that
<LaserJock> Burgwork: how easy is it to set up?
<Burgwork> trivial
<Burgwork> install it, then add it to the panel
<cliebow>  cbx33:so what is thin client manager written in?
<ogra> cliebow, blood
<ogra> and caffeine ...
<Burgwork> cbx33: python
<Burgwork> cliebow: python
<cliebow> python and tcl? or tk? or blood?
<ogra> gtk
* cliebow cliebow slinks off to read....
<cbx33> gimme?
<Burgwork> tcl, heh
<LaserJock> bah, no desktop-effects. They should put a bit more descriptive message other than "Desktop Effects can not be enabled"
<cbx33> bbl
<Burgwork> cbx33: gimmie is python, afaik
<cbx33> Burgwork, so is that you want to talk to me within the 5 hours you're at awork?
<cbx33> or after?
<Burgwork> cbx33: either
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> Burgwork, an applet ?
<ogra> how pointless
<Burgwork> ogra: it makes it easier to try
<Burgwork> the old gimmie replaced the panel
<ogra> well, having an applet for something tat shall work on demand ... well ...
<Burgwork> work on demand?
<ogra> libgimme should install codecs on demand, no ?
<LaserJock> hmm, does compiz not work with nvidia-legacy?
<Burgwork> oh, this is not gimmiecodec
<LaserJock> ogra: different thing
<Burgwork> this is gimmie, the panel revisited thing
<ogra> ah
<LaserJock> http://beatnik.infogami.com/Gimmie
<ogra> the gnome-main menu crap ?
<LaserJock> heh
<ogra> ah, no the good implementation :)
<LaserJock> there are various things that could fall under "gnome-main menu crap"
<ogra> i meant the novell thing
<highvoltage> ~[6~[6~[6~gnome-main -menu crap?
<LaserJock> is that slab?
<ogra> that looks as horrible as the new control center
<ogra> yeah slab
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think that's what he's talking about
<LaserJock> I haven't been playing around with them. I like my nice default Gnome
<LaserJock> but I see the names thrown around
<highvoltage> suse and their patentware. *sigh*
<ogra> likely as unusable as the control center
* highvoltage thinks gnome-main-maenu/slab looks ok
<highvoltage> but it is quite unusable
<LaserJock> well, if they made if pop up faster I'd probably live with it
<LaserJock> it's just hard to be flashy and fast
<LaserJock> and a menu is a place where you really have to be fast
<ogra> well, there was big fuzz about usability when gnome 2.0 released and one thing was that gnome would never introduce such things like control center because it slows yur workflow down immensely
<LaserJock> but then they filled up the menus
<ogra> LaserJock, ven if it pops up faster ... its two more clicks to reach what you want
<LaserJock> I have to scroll the Preferences menu now on my laptop
<ogra> and if you want an applet thats at the bottom, even scrolling and searching
<ogra> the worst idea ever imho
<LaserJock> well, I think the idea will be that you just search for everything
<LaserJock> like with QuickSilver in OS X
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> now I don't have a clue what all apps I have on OS X
<ogra> but that means if i dont want to type i have to scroll around like mad
<LaserJock> I just hit the keycombo to bring up QS
<LaserJock> and type what I want
<LaserJock> true
* highvoltage still finds gnome the most usable desktop of all
<LaserJock> although at least with the gnome control center you can hit the category button on the left and it highlights the section
<Burgwork> slab is not innovative
<Burgwork> gimmie is
<ogra> highvoltage, for a reason ... they refused for a long time to make integrated stuff like KDE did ... which kept it very clean ...
<Burgwork> however, it needs some work, but has good ideas
<ogra> and fast
<ogra> you add so much UI overhead with these things
<Burgwork> be nice if gimmie integrated the deskbar applet
<LaserJock> I think they're just heading down a road that we aren't used to
<LaserJock> menu's are really a thing of the past
<LaserJock> people want to integrate everything
<Burgwork> funny how you get muscle memory, however
<LaserJock> I mean, OS X has no decent app menu system at *all*
<Burgwork> with gimmie, the settings is under the "Linux" tab, as where as it was on the right with the gnome menu
<LaserJock> but I get apps up really fast
<ogra> LaserJock, apple never had an app menu system
<LaserJock> ogra: right
<LaserJock> and it seems to work for them ok
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> I think Gnome will probably head in that direction
<Burgwork> I think Novell's stuff will fail merely because they are pushing it too hard
<ogra> well
<Burgwork> and haven't really made the effort to integrate it into existing gnome tech, like the deskbar
<ogra> right
* ogra starts to hate gdm's icontheme
<Burgwork> why does gdm not talk to pam directly?
<ogra> ask a gdm dev ?
<ogra> i didnt know it doesnt
<ogra> it cant work wihout pam ...
<Burgwork> if you change your pam setup, you need to restart gdm
<ogra> else ldm wouldnt exist
<Burgwork> everything else just works and picks up the change
<Burgwork> http://www.advogato.org/person/company/diary.html?start=34 <-- why didn't fsf fund this?
<Burgwork> I haven't seen anything working with gnash
<ogra> oh ...
<ogra> seems my gdm theme fiddling is getting somewhere
<Burgwork> oh?
<Burgwork> what sort of gdm fiddling?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/gdmshot.png
<ogra> trying to get a theme dont that fits with the rest of our artwork
<ogra> after two hours of poking around with our old theme i switched to kwwii's ubuntu one and just tweaked the colors to match
<ogra> i think it looks ok
<Burgwork> ah, I see
<ogra> hmm
<Burgwork> looks good. One thing I would try is have the bottom bar fade into a dark red, rather than a brown
<ogra> i wonder how that black stain on the windowbar got there
<ogra> good idea, i'll check the svg
<ogra> avan though the brwn doesnt look bad ... if i dont make it we can keep it ...
<ogra> *even
<ogra> ok, last testbuild and then i'm DONE !
<ogra> phew that were hard four days ...
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, I found where the About Ubuntu menu item is made
<LaserJock> and it *is* hardcoded into gnome-panel
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i think i already du for that in breezy
<ogra> *dug
<LaserJock> but it looks simple enough to add About Edubuntu
<ogra> i dont have any probs if we have two about items
<LaserJock> it'd be better to add an if statement to get rid of the About Ubuntu one
<LaserJock> but I think seb might not like it
<ogra> no
<LaserJock> he probably won't even like this one
<ogra> that needs to be fixed properly
<ogra> the ardcoded stuff must be replaced by something dynamic
<LaserJock> well, it is dynamic in the sense that it check if the .desktop exists and then adds the item
<ogra> but in the end it only loads a .desktop file, doesnt it ?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> +       if (g_file_test (DATADIR"/omf/about-ubuntu/about-ubuntu-C.omf",
<LaserJock> +                        G_FILE_TEST_IS_REGULAR))
<LaserJock> +         panel_menu_items_append_from_desktop (menu, "ubuntu-about.desktop", NULL);
<ogra> so we can divert that or have an alternative or something
<LaserJock> well ...
<LaserJock> do you think he'd add in  aptch with those 3 lines for edubuntu-about.desktop?
<LaserJock> the problem with the desktop spec is that it's very difficult to tell certain items to go where
<LaserJock> it's all kinda messy, IMO
<LaserJock> its too loose so that there isn't a single menu file to edit
<ogra> well, ask him
<LaserJock> ok
<ogra> brb
<LaserJock> ogra: just CC'd you on my email to seb
<ogra> ok
<ogra> SIGH ...
* ogra watches edubuntu-artwork being uploaded since 20min
<ogra> its only 6M ...
<LaserJock> geeze
<LaserJock> that's a long time for 6M
<ogra> still uploading
<cbx33> that's crazy
<cbx33> is that your upload link?
<Burgwork> ogra:  a minor english note: "since 20m" is incorrect
<Burgwork> say instead: "for the past 20min"
* cbx33 pinches Burgwork 
<cbx33> see what you made him do
<Burgwork> heh
<Burgwork> I suspect he was gone well before that
<cbx33> hmm i just compiled gimmie from source
<cbx33> and installed
<cbx33> but it's not appearing as an applet
<cbx33> :(
<Burgwork> you might have grabbed the standalone stuff
<LaserJock> did you add it?
<Burgwork> what is the tarball name?
<phanatic> Burgwork: it builds both
<Burgwork> you might also need to relogin
<Burgwork> sometimes new applets are not picked up by the applet adder thing until then
<cbx33> aah
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well just switchin to lappie then we can chat tcm ok Burgwork ?
<Burgwork> ok
* ogra doesnt ge the artwork package uplaoded :(
<Burgwork> ogra: before you vanished, I said  ogra:  a minor english note: "since 20m" is incorrect
<Burgwork>  say instead: "for the past 20min"
<ogra> oh, thanks
<ogra> i just missed tha deadline
<ogra> thanks to broadcom
<Burgwork> ugh
<LaserJock> are you serious?
<cbx33> no way
<LaserJock> we can't get the artwork in at all or just not right now?
<ogra> well, i had an agreement with Mithrandir
<ogra> but i'm apparently not capable to get this damned thing ff my laptop
<ogra> *off
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> ogra, any luck
<LaserJock> wahoo, he got it
<cbx33> yeeeeha
<LaserJock> and I got an About Edubuntu bug for seb128
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> ogra, dude you rock
<cbx33> can you rest now?
<ogra> after the meeting i will just fal asleep for the next 20h :)
<cbx33> good
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> ping Burgwork
<Burgwork> pong cbx33
<cbx33> chat time?
<Burgwork> sure
<Burgwork> oh, wait, nope
<Burgwork> boss just walked in
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ping me
<cbx33> ogra, you still up
<LaserJock> ogra's a mad man today
<cbx33> i know
<LaserJock> I'm getting my share in too for starting out at 4:00am
<cbx33> ogra, just wanted to let you know I have signed up for being a mentor for GSoC
<cbx33> and have emailed Jason, the guy I hope to tutee everything he needs to sign up
<LaserJock> cbx33: was it easy to do?
<cbx33> yes very
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> a very simple form
<cbx33> but google is broken at the moment
<cbx33> my application isn't showing up
<cbx33> so KeyBuk couldn't moderate me
<LaserJock> hmm, think I should sign up to just in case we need people? or do I have to pick a specific project to mentor?
<cbx33> ping Burgwork
<cbx33> i don;t think so
<cbx33> ping Keybuk, he's around
<cbx33> he knows all about GSoC
<cbx33> as he's the admin
<Burgwork> cbx33: pong
<Burgwork> a web interface for tcm would be a great soc project
<cbx33> hoo ha boy
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> in feisty + 1
<cbx33> tcm will have the capability to remotely connect to another tcm instance
<Burgwork> web interface would mean a poor teacher, stuck on a windows machine, could admin it
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> it shoudn't be a problem
<Burgwork> be nice if tcm working on non-thin client machiens as well
<cbx33> so long as the web bit had capability to run the scp-backend package ;)
<cbx33> it would be easy
<cbx33> esp now it's been split
<cbx33> you gonna mail me chapter to day .... huh huh, are ya are ya :p
<Burgwork> ya, I will
<cbx33> :D
<Burgwork> the webstuff would run on the server itself
<Burgwork> and you would just login via the servers IP
<cbx33> yup
<bimberi> ah found it
<bimberi> bug 92648
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 92648 in gnome-panel "no menu item for About Edubuntu" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/92648
<bimberi> and that's working too
<bimberi> (Ubugtu responding to 'bug #')
<jgedeon> Does anyone know if any other schools have made a complete switch to Edubuntu?
<Burgwork> jgedeon: what part of the world?
<jgedeon> Burgwork: Not really sure if that matters really..  But I am working in the US.
<Burgwork> there are almost certainly lots
<jgedeon> I'm finding alot of information on classrooms but it seems like there isn't much on actual buildings.
<jgedeon> Reason I ask is it look like a local district in my US area is seriously considering Edubuntu for the primary and intermediate buildings (K-5).
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> a building is really just a group of classrooms
<jgedeon> True.
<cbx33> jgedeon, there is one i know of
<cbx33> you'd have to ask jono for it
<cbx33> nn all
#edubuntu 2007-03-16
<Burgwork> jgedeon: where in the US are you?
<Burgwork> Laser_away: you still around?
<jgedeon> Sorry about that.
<jgedeon> In North East Ohio
<Burgwork> jgedeon: no need to be sorry, did you hear my question?
<jgedeon> Burgwork: yes I said in North East Ohio.
<Burgwork> ah, didn't catch that
<Burgwork> I apparently dropped for a bit
<Burgwork> there are a bunch of ltsp devs in the midwest region
<jgedeon> A couple of years ago I was helping a teacher in the school and one thing led to another and now we are looking at *nix district wide...
<jgedeon> It's already been officially said that they want to try Edubuntu in the primary and Intermediate buildings.
<Burgwork> cool
<Burgwork> there is also somebody using Edubuntu in Illionios
<Burgwork> as part of their state-wide rollout
<jgedeon> Cool.  Then we won't be the only ones.  Makes one feel better.  LOL  Even though I don't think Edubuntu will have a problem it's just nice to know there are others.
<jgedeon> In the area so to say.
<cliebow_>  we are as close as your netrwork connection 8`)
<jgedeon> LOL
<jgedeon> I do know that the media will be watching this.  So it should be pretty interesting for Ubuntu as a whole!    The County Superintendent is keeping a close eye on this to and has an interest in it.
<cliebow_> jgedeon: we switched cave hill to ltsp three years ago..but in libranet..then redhat..soon to e edubuntu
<Burgwork> ah, libranet
<Burgwork> cliebow_: which cave hill?
<Burgwork> jgedeon: ironically I work for a company that sells a competing solution
<cliebow_> at the time we  had a tech guy there..teaching first grade..but budget consolidation made him go
<cliebow_> mAINE
<cliebow_> when he left i puit all six schools in rhel3..
<jgedeon> cliebow_: I think I have read something about your school on the internet while researching.
<cliebow_> probably...i  admin six in Ellsworth and sis in surrounding union 92
<jgedeon> cliebow_: how many clients are you running per server?
<cliebow_> cliebow prob brings up all sorts of fabrications
<cliebow_> i have a hundred in the high school..never more than 40 aT a time on
<cliebow_> i ve been doing ltsp five years or so
<jgedeon> cliebow_: what kind of server spec's are you running if you don't mind me asking?
<cliebow_> eagle2 is 4 gig memory..have to look at the rest for you..dual opteron perhaps..
<jgedeon> And 40 is at once is about the limit?
<cliebow_> no..with no runaway forefoxes or online games we could do more
<jgedeon> Ok..  KEWL
<cliebow_> we have a trio..ldapserver//ltsp...fileserver
<jgedeon> cliebow_: do you know what software your districts are using for reading comprehension?
<cliebow_> well we are using read180...lexia//carnegie learning
<cliebow_> yeah..dual opteron 1792 mhz 64 bit..
<jgedeon> trying to find the name of the one they are currently using on doze network.
<jgedeon> 3yo servers?
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I am now
<cliebow_> two hefty servers...one is files gfor all six schools..the other ltsp for high school..
<cliebow_> and a pos fgor ldap
<cliebow_> authentication
<jgedeon> cliebow_: ok.
<cliebow_> it comes and goes..still have a fifth grade pod of seven run by a totally non-savvy teacher..who loves it
<cliebow_> i look in at every ubuntu release..other than that it just works
<jgedeon> cliebow_: that is what I am seeing.
<cliebow_> GReat..any help i can be just holler..i am in #ltsp most of the time
<jgedeon> cliebow_: Thanks.  I have set up a couple of smaller labs just for testing but am looking at doing something a little bigger so that I can show the others more of a hands on and to do some training on so that they aren't blind sideded.
<cliebow_> good...i have mine set up to feed the whole building..single nic..but some prefer the lab type setup
<cliebow_> you are doing ltsp?
<jgedeon> Yes ltsp, don't see a reason not to go ltsp.  Hoping to break the grades into like pods.  Think there will be 5 to 7 clients in a room.
<jgedeon> cliebow_: is your network a mixxed network with *nix and M$?
<cliebow_> oh yeah....osx nix ms..like 200 laptops just in the high school
<cliebow_> 200 osx laptops..
<cliebow_> maine laptop initiative...
<jgedeon> Ok.
<cliebow_> prob 400 ibooks in lall
<cliebow_> for this district
<jgedeon> Ok.
<cliebow_> that is why i was so hot getting ltsp to wwork on ppc
<cliebow_> i find the litlle bast..ds a pain..\
<jgedeon> cliebow_: with the changes in ppc I don't think we will really be worrying about those since everything we have is so outdated and we are basically going to be starting out from scratch.
<cliebow_> i started out with nubus mac...
<cliebow_> my  terminals  are all junk donated..netvistas..boxes from the banks..the airforce..
<cliebow_> 200 meg  boxes retired from the career  essentials labs
<cliebow_> packing it in..til tomorrow
<MrWizard14> ok, c ya
<adrenalin1983> Anyone got some spare time to help me with something?
<adrenalin1983> I need help with my video card
<a_ty> can help me to enable 3D vga client
<yo_> please help me
<yo_>  to enable client 3D VGA card
<Burgundavia> yo_: what is the make of your video card
<Burgundavia> ?
<a_ty> yo
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: you pinged me earlier today, anything special?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: I forgot
<LaserJock> k
<a_ty> what
<a_ty> what's the mean of laserjock. may i know
<LaserJock> what does "LaserJock" mean?
<a_ty> yeah
<LaserJock> well, LASER is Light Amplified by Spontaneous Emission of Radiation
<LaserJock> and Jock is kinda like an enthusiast
<|speed|> can help me to configuration 3D vga card client
<bimberi> |speed|: what kind of video card? nvidia? ati?
<cbx33> hi alll
<cbx33> hey burgundavia, howz it looking
<RichEd> 'lo cbx33
<cbx33> hey riched
<RichEd> cbx33: pm4u
<cbx33> i'm nagging as usual
<RichEd> s/lagging/nagging ?
<cbx33> nope nagging
<Alpha_Cluster> wow people do actaully talk in here
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> right i gotta go get up
<cbx33>  /me bugs burgundavia one last time book book book.....
<cbx33> i'm outta here
<phoenix24> i am working on my idea, which i think could be a useful app for Edubuntu
<phoenix24> is this the right place to get feedback on it?
<highvoltage> phoenix24: yep
<highvoltage> phoenix24: welcome to edubuntu
<highvoltage> phoenix24: most people are still sleeping though :)
<phoenix24> i guess so..
<phoenix24> My Application is called WISIWYS; pronounced "wizz e wizz"
<phoenix24> and i call it What-I-See-Is What-You-See
<phoenix24> catered more towards, situtations like; a classroom; a workshop; or a seminar. Where the lead presenter wants all the attendees to focus on his screen, or rather their own which is a replica of his own( if everyone has one)
<highvoltage> what technologies does it use?
<phoenix24> X11 backend, GTK+
<highvoltage> would it work with clients that are connected via ssh -X ?
<phoenix24> would primarily be messing around with the X11 protocols
<highvoltage> I suggest you mail about it to edubuntu-devel at http://lists.ubuntu.com
<phoenix24> i am yet to refine the idea, was thinking if it even had a potential ?
<highvoltage> if it could be incorporated into the current edubuntu tools, that would be great
<highvoltage> it has potential, yes, ogra and cbx33 are working on tools to do similar things
<highvoltage> maybe you could contribute your ideas and knowledge?
<highvoltage> if you hang around, they'll be in the channel a bit later.
<phoenix24> a friend told me  to comtact orga. but he's not seen here now.
<phoenix24> *contact
<phoenix24> highvoltage: could give me the liks to orga's / cbx33's work on this?
<highvoltage> ugh, I was just about to paste him the links
<highvoltage> phoenix24: it was originally called the student control panel
<highvoltage> phoenix24: here's the specification: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/student-control-panel-completion
<highvoltage> phoenix24: I think it's now called LTSP manager
<highvoltage> phoenix24: but I suggest you hang arround for cbx33 and ogra for more details
<phoenix24> yeah i will.
<mherweg> hi edubuntu-people!  I tried to build CipUX on ubuntu and get this error: dh_installinit -pcipux-rpc -o --name=cipux-rpcd
<mherweg> > Unknown option: o
<mherweg> > dh_installinit: unknown option; aborting
<phoenix24> hi ogra
<wima> does anyone know where I can find a description of the local devices mechanism used in ubuntu ltsp?
<wima> I'm having troubles with cdroms, and I don't really know where to begin debugging
<wima> I fount this: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2006-August/000339.html
<wima> but it doesn't say anything about cdrom
<wima> (other local devices work fine)
<cliebow> wima:wiki.ltsp.org
<wima> thqnks cliebow
<wima> but that is about ltsp 4.2
<wima> I belief there are quite some changes in ubuntu ltsp
<wima> ( in ltsp 4.2 cdroms work, btw)
<cliebow> ah..then ogra may be your best resource..i know he is wicked busy with beta freeze
<wima> yeah, he was also the author of the mail i referenced
<cliebow> i believe localdev system is the same..but dont quote me..
<cliebow> pop in #ltsp..Gadi is there i know..
<wima> I believe there are some changes in how things are mounted server side
<cliebow> heh..was there
<wima> on the client, things seem to work
<wima> cd is mounted
<cliebow> did you do the 12 step diagnosis?
<wima> no. where can I find this?
<wima> are those the ones at ltsp.org?
<wima> are those applicable for ubuntu ltsp?
<cliebow> well i thought so..still need ltspfsd and stuff
<cliebow> what are permissions on /dev/fuse
<wima> rw-rw----
<wima> everyone is in the fuse group
<wima> usb sticks work fine
<wima> local hard drives as wel
<wima> skimming trough the 12 steps, I see at least one step that goes wrong:
<cliebow> hmmm
<wima> "Does your workstation know its name?"
<cliebow> that should bother all else though huh?
<wima> I believe there is something wrong with the hostname script
<ogra> its not needed in ltsp5 ....
<wima> no, I thought so
<wima> my dhcp server hqnds out hostnames based on mac
<ogra> ltsp5 uses a socked of the ssh tunnel to communicate, you dont need any TCP stuff set up correctly for it ... (less error prone)
<wima> I see the hostname scrolling by during boot
<wima> but then it gets overwritten by the hostname of the server
<ogra> in ltsp 4.2 a separate communication bus makes the TCP connection, so it depends on correct TCP setup there
<cliebow> echo $DISPLAY on a client gives server name?
<cliebow> seesm irrelevant anyway
<ogra> cliebow, should give you :6 on a client
<ogra> and at least localhst:11 in the session
<wima> can you think of anything that can cause cdroms to fail while other devices work?
<ogra> set a roowpw in the client chroot: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<ogra> hit ctrl-alt-f1 on the client and log in as root ...
<ogra> check if the cdpinger script is running
<wima> I have an account with sudo rights
<ogra> no
<ogra> the chroot the client boots from is a completely independent system
<ogra> it has no user accounts at all and root is locked
<wima> yes, I know
<ogra> so you need a rootpw to log in on the console on a booted client
<wima> but I created one in the chroot
<ogra> ah
<ogra> ok
<wima> cdpinger is running
<ogra> hmm, then there is no reason you shouldnt see the CD
<wima> this is a python script right?
<ogra> yep
<wima> it is mounted locally
<wima> but it doesn't appear on the server
<ogra> hmm, so cdpinger even works right
<ogra> thats a bit weird
<wima> sorry, it _used_ to work
<wima> now not anymore
<wima> and it won't give me back my cd
<wima> for other devices, I saw two mounts on the server
<wima> like:
* cliebow cliebow scribbles frantically
<wima> ltspfs on /tmp/.wima-ltspfs/floppy0 type fuse (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=wima)/tmp/.wima-ltspfs/floppy0 on /media/wima/floppy0 type none (rw,bind)
<wima> sorry
<wima> ltspfs on /tmp/.wima-ltspfs/floppy0 type fuse (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=wima)
<wima> /tmp/.wima-ltspfs/floppy0 on /media/wima/floppy0 type none (rw,bind)
<wima> for cdroms, there was only one
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> check if /media/wima has a cdrom dir
<wima> no
<wima> maybe it did before I messed things up completely
<wima> unfortunately I cannot reboot the server without having a lot of angry users
<wima> (for the moment they are happy ltsp users, thank you very much :))
<wima> is this what is supposed to happen?:
<wima> 1. cdpinger sees that there is a cd and mounts the cdrom
<wima> 2 server is notified
<wima> 3. server mounts ltsp filesystem
<ogra> right
<wima> 4 ???
<wima> this is then mounted again?
<ogra> the only thing i could have imagined was that the dir wasnt deleted on unmount, it sometimes chokes on that
<ogra> but if you say /media/wima is empty that cant be it
<wima> well, floppy is there
<wima> but no cdrom
<wima> what is running on the server to manage these things?
<wima> and can I get it to log something?
<ogra> there is the ltspfsmounter script that gets executed through the tunnel
<ogra> its respnsible for the payload connection
<ogra> but if your floppy woirks all should be fine
<wima> why are there two mounts for every device?
<ogra> one is the ltspfs mount, the other is a bind mount, so the device ends up in /media/$USER
<wima> ok
<ogra> gnome-volumke manager monitors that dir
<ogra> so we didnt need to touch the desktop with any hacks ;)
<wima> strange then that the bind mount happened, but the ltspfs mount didn't
<wima> the bind mount made the icon appear
<ogra> right
<ogra> and you bsee an empty dir if you open it
<wima> can I run ltspfsmount manually?
<wima> as a test?
<ogra> hmm, might work
<ogra> oh, wait !
<ogra> check if a cdrom dir still is in /tmp/.$USER
<ogra> ltspfsmounter wont work if either side exists ...
<ogra> (either side of the bind mount)
<wima> no
<wima> well
<wima> not anymore
<wima> it was created when I tried ltfsmounter
<wima> and then I used the remove option and it was gone
<wima> (i have no idea what I am doing :))
<ogra> try putting in a cdrom now
<wima> problem is:
<ogra> btw, is that edgy or feisty ?
<wima> there is already a cdrom in, and it wont come out
<ogra> oh
<wima> umount -f on client says device is busy
<ogra> oh
<ogra> eject
<ogra> well, indeed, you said you see the mount on the client ...
<ogra> ususally there are no mounts as long as no data is transferred, ltspfs works dynamically
<ogra> and unmounts the clientside secretly 2secs after the last byte was transferred
<wima> eject: device is busy
<ogra> well, thats very likely an HW issue, what kind of CD is that ?
<ogra> plain data ? mixed audio/data ? or something differently weird ?
<ogra> audio CDs are not yxet supported ...
<wima> plain data
<ogra> i havent tried mixed ones
<wima> tried multiple workstations
<wima> I could do an ls on client and see the data
<ogra> right
<ogra> which release is that ?
<wima> edgy
<ogra> k
<ogra> run lsof on the client to see what hogs the CD
<ogra> or better: lsof|grep cd
<wima> already tried it
<wima> nothing
<wima> maybe best to reboot client
<wima> is there anything I can do server side so everything is clean?
<wima> remove tmp/user-ltsp?
<wima> and /media/user/*
<ogra> if you shut down from the clients login manager (with the button on te bottom left) a cleanup script is run
<ogra> that will delete all dirs
<wima> ok
<wima> ah, the button doen't work on this machine
<wima> it works on all others
<wima> it just freezes
<wima> I will check if everything is remeved when I log back in
<ogra> weird machine ... but even if it freezes it will run the script before the acpi call is done
<wima> ok
<wima> well, I'm going to reboot now
<wima> thanks already for your time!
<wima> and we are back...
<ogra> with working CDrom ?
<wima> haven't tried
<wima> was checking if all dirs where gone
<ogra> and they were i hope
<wima> on client, there is still a cdrom dir in /var/run/drives
<wima> is this ok?
<ogra> yes
<wima> ok
<ogra> thats created on boot
<ogra> (as the whole /var/run dir)
<wima> inserting disc...
<wima> icon appears
<ogra> if you ever need something to vanish on reboot in asn ubuntu system, use /var/run ;)
<wima> hmm
<wima> I see an empty folder
<wima> on server, both mounts are there
<wima> ltspfs and bind
<wima> ls /tmp/.wima-ltspfs/cdrom gives nothing
<ogra> no, it shouldnt
<ogra> but you see the mount in the output of the mount program ?
<wima> ah, it is not mounted on client
<wima> mount |grep cd gives nothing
<wima> on server,  mount |grep cdrom |grep wima gives
<wima> ltspfs on /tmp/.wima-ltspfs/cdrom type fuse (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=wima)
<wima> /tmp/.wima-ltspfs/cdrom on /media/wima/cdrom type none (rw,bin
<wima> I forgot to check if these weren't there before I inserted this disk of course
<ogra> it should get mounted as soon as you acess it
<wima> removed cd now
<wima> icon is gone
<wima> mounts are also gone on server
<wima> i'll try another cd
<wima> ah, now nautilus gives an error
<wima> 'could not display contents'
<wima> it is mounted on client now
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> right, thats what should happen
<ogra> but i wonder why you dont have read access
<wima> ls /var/drives/cdrom on client works
<ogra> are you logged in multiple times with the same user ?
<wima> ls /media/wima/cdrom
<wima> gives:
<wima>  /media/wima/cdrom: Transport endpoint is not connected
<wima> no only on this machine
<wima> I think
<ogra> sounds like a bug in ltspfs or so ...
<ogra> we'll need to wait until sbalneav shows up...
<wima> can there be anything specific to my setup that cases this problem?
<wima> network maybe?
<ogra> not really, you client boots from the net and works ... that would exclude network probs
<ogra> the scriptsa work fine as well and create all the mountpoints
<ogra> so the only thing that could be broken is ltspfs
<ogra> which is responsible for the payload ...
<wima> we had a lot of problems with nfs
<wima> it was so bad that ubuntu ltsp zas unusable
<wima> then I changed nfsp to use tcp in the init scripts
<wima> now it is fine, and we could finally switch to ltsp ubuntu
<wima> ok. I'll wait for sbalneav :)
<wima> thanks very much for your help
<wima> now I understand a bit better what is going on
<wima> once cdrom is fixed, we're moving the whole office over to ltsp
<wima> ( we have a few test users at the moment)
<ogra> nice
<wima> is pulse audio going in in the next release?
<ogra> its already in, yes
<wima> great!
<sbalneav> cbx33: Hey dude!  How's stands the empire?
<sbalneav> s/'s//
<LaserJock> sbalneav!
<sbalneav> hey LaserJock
<Burgwork> sbalneav: hey!
<sbalneav> hey hey
<sbalneav> is cbx33 around?
<LaserJock> not sure
<sbalneav> Who's controlling the doco these days?  ogra said there was some weirdness in the doco, but when it moved off of hedgemage's repo, I never got access to it after that.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: the doc team has it
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<LaserJock> sbalneav: we just need to make sure all your work got there
<LaserJock> nixternal: thought it was but now we aren't sure
<LaserJock> s/://
<sbalneav> Some of it wasn't finished yet, but I lost access to the server and COULDN't finish it.
<LaserJock> lost access to HedgeMage's server?
<sbalneav> Well, they moved the doco off of that, right?
<LaserJock> well, we *were* periodically syncing from it
<LaserJock> but we've moved totally to the doc team server
<sbalneav> Any chance I could get access to it?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but you can always send us patches too ;-)
<sbalneav> That's fine, what's the address?
<LaserJock> it'll take time to get write access
<sbalneav> bzr or svn?
<LaserJock> svn
<sbalneav> What's the addrss?
<LaserJock> Canonical sysadmins have to create the accounts
<LaserJock> well, you can send it to me
<LaserJock> or ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com
<sbalneav> No, I mean the svn address.
<LaserJock> oh sorry
<sbalneav> I can do a checkout, fix up what needs fixing, then send you the patches.
<LaserJock> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
<sbalneav> k got it
<LaserJock> the handbook is in edubuntu/handbook/
<sbalneav> Grabbing it now.
<cbx33> hey sbalneav
<cbx33> I'm here
<cbx33> gonna be jumping out in just a sec though
* LaserJock waves to Pete
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> well, I got 6hrs of sleep last night ;-)
<sbalneav> urgh, yeah, hasn't got all the up-to-date stuff.  I'll work on it for the rest of the day.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: thanks so much dude. I'm not sure what happened there
<LaserJock> I've just been doing packaging, etc. for it not any content
<cbx33> 6 hours
<cbx33> that's tonnes
<cbx33> try 4
<cbx33> i did that for a whole month once
<LaserJock> yucky
<LaserJock> I feel like crap
<LaserJock> it's only noon and I'm wasted
<Burgwork> hmm, drugs
<Burgwork> makes irc a much better place
<LaserJock> no drugs for me :/
<LaserJock> I shouldn't even be drinking soda, according to the dentist
<cbx33> Burgwork, chapter?
<LaserJock> I hate coffee
<cbx33> awww sorry LaserJock
<LaserJock> so I'm stuck with my daily *buntu-drip
<Burgwork> cbx33: I played Wesnoth last night
<cbx33> BURGWORK!!!!
<Burgwork> I am turning into a coffee fiend
<LaserJock> I really should
* cbx33 slaps Burgwork with a large trout
<LaserJock> cbx33: where'd you get the trout?
<Burgwork> I only drink coffee with chocolate
<Burgwork> LaserJock: it came out of the Thames and has legs
<LaserJock> yeah
<Burgwork> warty was ugly: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=664&num=2
* cbx33 gaught it
<Burgwork> what verb is "gaught"
<Burgwork> is that how you over the ponders are spelling got these days?
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> caught
<cbx33> I gtg
<cbx33> see y'all later
<cbx33> CHAPTER Burgwork  :p
<cbx33> please...even if it's just makos version ;)
<Burgwork> cbx33: wesnotttthhh
<LaserJock> Burgwork: I played it once a little while back on OS X
<LaserJock> pretty cool
<Burgwork> I am gotten rehooked
<LaserJock> I'm not much of a RPG guy
<LaserJock> I like the first person shooters more I guess
<lulemurfan> I can't connect my network printer to edubuntu, CAN anyone Help
<lulemurfan> Can anyone help me please
<lulemurfan> please
<lulemurfan> I can't connect my network printer to edubuntu, CAN anyone Help
<lulemurfan> I can't connect my network printer to edubuntu, CAN anyone Help
<sbalneav> lulemurfan: hello
<sbalneav> What kind of network printer is it/
<sbalneav> ?
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: in response to what I saw in my away log... we took my repo offline when everything was moved to the doc repo in order to try to avoid confusion.  I can put mine back up if needed, though.
<sbalneav> Nah, that's ok.  I've checked out the source, I'll finish it off, and send in a patch.
<HedgeMage> ahh cool
<sbalneav> Haven't seen you in a long time! How's it going?
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: okay, just insanely busy
<sbalneav> :)
<HedgeMage> Hopefully, I'll find time to come back in a few more (9+?) months.
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: how's the family?
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: okay I guess... just a lot going on :)
<HedgeMage> LaserJock: how've you been?
<LaserJock> busy busy
<HedgeMage> :)
<LaserJock> just got my car back from the shop
<LaserJock> took over 1 week
<cliebow__>  spark plugs?
<LaserJock> cliebow__: accident repair
<LaserJock> 2 accidents to be precise
<cliebow__>  should have been two weeks then\
#edubuntu 2007-03-17
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2007/teachers-gradebook
<Burgundavia> umm
<Burgundavia> schooltool?
<LaserJock> schooltool and schoolbell are kinda broken currently :/
<lulemurfan> I need help to To set up a network printer with is printer brother DCP-310CN
<lulemurfan> can anyone help
<lulemurfan> Don't worry I've sloved it
<Geak> can you please tell me whats the difference betwean edubuntu and ubuntu?
<Mariux5> Why does edubuntu use gnome?
<Mariux5> almost all of the edu-apps are kde apps
<Mariux5> and also, kde has the kiosk mode
<LaserJock> Pete!!
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> cbx33: are you on for a few minutes?
<cbx33> yeh
<youssef> Hello
<youssef> I would like to start a software to learn human languages, perhaps some could help me to choose a good framework
<youssef> see you later
<thak> does anyone know how to change the default window environment for the terminals from, say, xfce to enlightenment?
<thak> does anyone know how to change the default window environment for the terminals from, say, xfce to enlightenment?
#edubuntu 2007-03-18
<Seveas> ogra, you still awake?
<arkan0x> hi
<arkan0x> When applying ltsp-build-client in my Ubuntu 6,10, appears the following error :
<arkan0x> sudo ltsp-build-client
<arkan0x> ln: creating symbolic link `/dev/fd' to `/proc/self/fd': File exists
<arkan0x> error: la instalacin del cliente LTSP finaliz de forma anormal
<cliebow> arkan0x, i found this bug..
<cliebow> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/44
<arkan0x> 	It happens to me the same with a fresh installation of Edubuntu 6.10
<arkan0x> cliebow, thanks !
<cliebow> change mount-proc you shoulsd be fine...
<cliebow> your version of ltsp-server is old
<arkan0x> oks
<cliebow> doing my best to tell you without knowing details
<arkan0x> but, It happens to me the same with a fresh installation of Edubuntu 6.10 (with the iso of edubuntu,org)
<arkan0x> *edubuntu.org
<cliebow> somehow that crept in..ogra tells me..and he wrote a lot of it
<cliebow> and provided this fix
<arkan0x> oks
<cliebow> you should throw out your old /opt/ltsp/i386 so you are installing clean'
<arkan0x> oks
<arkan0x> thanks cliebow !
<cliebow> my peasure to be of service
<cliebow> my pleasure to be of service
<arkan0x> :)
<thak> does anyone know how to change the default window environment for the terminals from, say, xfce to enlightenment?
<thak> maybe i should ask this question differently...does anyone understand how the client machine determines which window environment to load?
<crazy_bus> I'm trying to update the sources on a friends computer.  All the source work except universe.  It comes up with an error about gzip or something similar.  What can I do to fix it?
<crimsun> use another mirror temporarily
<rockprincess> howdy friends! :)
<rockprincess> any idea how i could make an easy backup of my edubuntu system?
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
#edubuntu 2008-03-10
<Kamping_Kaiser> edubuntu peoples: has edubuntu gone to the 'ubuntu addon' for 8.04?
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, morning mate (didnt spot you before)
<LaserJock> hi
<LaserJock> Edubuntu 8.04 is shipping an Ubuntu Educational Addon CD
<Kamping_Kaiser> so the 'installing edubuntu standalone' page that i'm looking at is probably incorrect?
<LaserJock> yep
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm.
 * Kamping_Kaiser goes to burn ubuntu with the edu expantion pack cds
<Kamping_Kaiser> bleh. after downloading them :|
<Kamping_Kaiser> kgoetz, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/8.04/alpha-6/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04/alpha-6/
<Kamping_Kaiser> bbs
<Kamping_Kaiser> LaserJock, is someone rewriting it?
<LaserJock> not that I know
<LaserJock> of
<LaserJock> the Handbook either
<pygi> heh, nobody ever wanted to do that
<pygi> I wish our old team was here :-/
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm off to somewhere with a faster internet connection so i can download the edu addon cd. i'll be back as kgoetz in about an hour probably
<pygi> enjoy Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> and i'll look at doing some reworking (after not using docbook for two years...heh)
<subsume> .
<subsume> I just messed up my edubuntu lab's internet connection. only server will connect. can someone please help?
<Kamping_Kaiser> subsume, flushed iptables, and reenable routing?
<subsume> Kamping_Kaiser never done that.... could you please advise?
<Kamping_Kaiser> subsume, iptables -F and echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
<Kamping_Kaiser> however, i'm heading off
<Kamping_Kaiser> !tell subsume about private message
<subsume> Kamping_Kaiser -- I know about priv messages I'm just using an unfamil irc client. =)
<subsume> Kamping_Kaiser -- I did both of those things on the server machine and nothing is different
<Kamping_Kaiser> subsume, check your switches/cabling
 * Kamping_Kaiser has to go for a bit
<subsume> Kamping_Kaiser -- I really don't think its that. I see a new message relating to 'portmap' when the server starts up. could that be it?
<subsume> Screwed up my edubuntu clients internet connection. I think it has something to do with server portmap. Any advice?
<subsume> Screwed up my edubuntu clients internet connection. I think it has something to do with server portmap. Any advice?
<pygi> don't repeat yourself, be patient
<pygi> it's middle of the night for most of the folks here
<subsume> I hate this fuckin room.
<LaserJock> oookay ...
<subsume> Can someone please help me. I dug myself into a hole--my edubuntu clients can't connect to the internet.
<LaserJock> well, you weren't being very nice before, please don't swear
<subsume> I thought I was in the #ubuntu room. Its such a circus in there.
<LaserJock> k
<subsume> Honestly I've never used bitchx to connect to IRC, this channel is always (not so full...but) full of knowledgable helpful people.
<LaserJock> I'm not a lot of help, but perhaps give the error message
<subsume> Anyway. I don't know what my problem is. I think it might have something to do with portmap running on the server?
<subsume> I get a message on startup... but it scrolls to fast.
<subsume> I flushed my iptables.
<subsume> meh, this is impossible.
<subsume> the debian community is so much more prevalent.
<LaserJock> prevalent?
<subsume> as in, when you run into something you can reliably find some pointers to working it out on IRC.
<subsume> edubuntu is always dead and ubuntu is like an elementary school sandbox.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> this channel has it's active times, but is not as active as some channels for sure
<LaserJock> you can also try #ltsp
<LaserJock> I've gotta run
<subsume> yepo.
<pygi> subsume, you need to be a little bit more polite, and perhaps someone would help you
<pygi> thanks for listening
<kgoetz> back
<subsume> So... any other takers?
<pygi> hey kgoetz
<pygi> subsume, no idea if this is related, but just read it: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=599166
<kgoetz> i'm a bit cross - the fast link at itshare is running at almost teh speed of my home connection. i assume its because of public holiday :|
<pygi> you should probably run "sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys" anyway ...
<subsume_> Not sure how that applies pygi  =)
<pygi> subsume, run the ssh ltsp-update-sshkeys pls? ^_^
<kgoetz> is there an ulternative mirror to cdimage.ubuntu.com if i want alpha-6? i'm starting to get really irate at this wait
<subsume_> in my haste i uninstalled ltsp. need to redo.
<subsume_> i will do that now.
<subsume_> pygi: i ran that.
<subsume_> hmf
<subsume_> Can I dist-upgrade edubuntu and end up with 7.10?
<subsume_> from 7.04
<pygi> yup
<subsume_> pygi: Why then does lsb_release -a still give me 7.04 after an apt-get dist-upgrade?
<subsume_> Meh found a doc and its working now.
<subsume_> Does anyone suppose a dist-upgrade of edubuntu should hang for 15 minutes on squid
<subsume_> ?
<kgoetz> probably squids fault
<subsume_> what to do?
<kgoetz> probably nothing, apart from uncleanly shut down squid
<subsume_> but its in the middle of a dist upgrade...
<subsume_> should I ctrlz?
<kgoetz> so i'm clear - your upgrading squid?
<subsume_> no. dist-upgrade of edubuntu entire.
<kgoetz> how is squid involved in the upgrade? its on the edubuntu system?>
<subsume_> I suppose so.
<kgoetz> as long as your not upgrading *through* squid while you upgrade squid you would be ok to simply kill squid off
<calimer> isn't it better just to let it run its course?
<subsume_> I'm not sure how I can kill squid off without calling off the whole dist-upgrade...kgoetz
<kgoetz> calimer: yes it is
<subsume_> calimer for how many more minutes?
<calimer> for as long as it takes
<subsume_> calimer what if the sun nova's first? problem solved?
<calimer> when you start playing with it you tend to corrupt software
<subsume_> Setting up squid (2.6.14-1ubuntu2.1) ...
<subsume_> Installing new version of config file /etc/init.d/squid ...
<subsume_> *hang*
<calimer> I'm sure you are eager to use yoru comp
<calimer> your
<subsume_> I got all night. =)
<calimer> but maybe go watch a movie or some TV
<subsume_> Its a strange thing to hang on.
<calimer> and come back and see what its status is
<calimer> it's comps, it happens
<calimer> but to kill it can't you open a new tab in the console and type uh ls -a I think it is
<calimer> and then kill by the pid?
<subsume_> will that stop whole ugprade process?
<calimer> honestly I would just let it keep going
<kgoetz> if you break the upgrade, you can resume it later
<calimer> it might hang next time you try too
<kgoetz> just dont reboot a half upgraded sytem
<calimer> the safest thing is to just go catch a movie or some TV and relax
<calimer> let it do its thing
<calimer> chances are it will move forward on its own
<subsume_> calimer -- this config file better have some shakespeare in it!
<calimer> why in a mood for some romance?
<calimer> haha
<subsume_> any config file that takes a computer an hour to write should potentially call the Turing commission to convene.
<calimer> honestly I'm not much of an expert on what you are doing right now
<calimer> my linux distro is mandrake 10.1
<calimer> just talking from my experience installing many many things
<calimer> and messing stuff up when I got impatient, haha
<subsume_> if I kill the PID it will just move on?
<kgoetz> dpkg is very forgiving, if you make the right scrifices
<calimer> who knows
<subsume_> hmm
<subsume_> I might just kill it
<calimer> seriously just go out for some pizza or something
<subsume_> by the looks of it I don't even WANT squid
<subsume_> no I'm gonna kill it!
<calimer> I forgot what squid does, isn't it some network security type thing?
<subsume_> its a network caching service
<subsume_> the idiot who ran this lab beforehand must have thought itw as important
<calimer> it's going to blow up
<subsume_> that would be a relief!
<kgoetz> squid is a caching proxy
<subsume_> I will just switch industries if that's the case.
<kgoetz> it allows you to plug extra stuff into it like dansguardian which makes it quite flexible
<calimer> isn't dansguardian a firewall?
<kgoetz> no, its a content filter
<subsume_> Now isn't that interesting......... ps -auwx is hanging.
<calimer> why do people say linux doesn't need a firewall?
<calimer> I think that is kind of crazy talk
<kgoetz> calimer: why?
<calimer> well I guess it doesn't NEED a firewall
<calimer> but that isn't the same as it has the same protection as a win comp with a firewall
<kgoetz> dont know about your distro, but the only open ports i have on my systems are ones i open. 80 and 64.
<kgoetz> you cant say the same for a windows system
<calimer> so maybe your distro has a built in firewall
<kgoetz> no, it doesnt
<calimer> then how would the other ports be closed on their own?
<kgoetz> well, it does, because iptables is part of Linux, but its not filtering
<calimer> and are they closed or stealthed?
<kgoetz> thier not set to listen on external interfaces
<kgoetz> closed.
<calimer> so people can still see your comp
<kgoetz> sure
<calimer> I'm certainly no expert
<calimer> but I just think it doesn't hurt to have a nix firewall too
<kgoetz> whats a firewall goign to do for me?
<calimer> stealth your ports
<kgoetz> why would i want to?
<calimer> so people can't see your comp that you don't want
<kgoetz> which people? :)
<calimer> bad people
<calimer> haha
 * kgoetz still isnt convinced ;)
<calimer> I mean some are just crazy in general
<calimer> well whatever works anyway
<calimer> just stating my opinion
<kgoetz> a public server, sure. firewall it. a home system? bugger that for paranoia
<calimer> maybe I am a bit
<calimer> though I'm a developer too
<subsume_> I can't even open a new terminal to that machine that was hanging...
<calimer> so I can't really affort any problems
<calimer> er
<calimer> afford
<kgoetz> subsume_: sounds like its under a lot of load
<calimer> I used to host quite a few servers as wel
<kgoetz> subsume_: is the HDD thrashing?
<subsume_> kgoetz: no
<kgoetz> subsume_: hm. i'm wonering if dpkg has started an eternal loop
<subsume_> yeah. can I ctrl Z now?
<kgoetz> Z is background. C is cancel
<calimer> damn my game went to 8 out of 631 on moddb :(
<subsume_> oh that's a good one.
<calimer> it lost top 5 BOOO
<kgoetz> yes you can, but dont expect it to work instantly :) give it a minute to die off
<subsume_> ahaha
<kgoetz> calimer: aw
<calimer> why not just kill by pid
<calimer> cleaner
<subsume_> hitting CTRL C just skiopped it and continued the install
<kgoetz> calimer: he cant opena  shell (he says)
<calimer> ah well
<calimer> shell is good for you
<subsume_> http://pastebin.com/m6ca4cf69
<kgoetz> ogra_cmpc: ello
<kgoetz> subsume_: adduser: `/usr/bin/gpasswd -M proxy winbindd_priv' exited from signal 2. Exiting. <- is the problem
<subsume_> crap now NFS is hanging too
<kgoetz> subsume_: can you pastebin your sources.list?
<subsume_> I wish I could but I can't login from another terminal
<kgoetz> are you doing this in single user mode, or full system?
<subsume_> root
<subsume_> I can't even use ps =(
<subsume_> is my system destroyed?
<subsume_> dpkg is locked.
<kgoetz> root meaning?
 * kgoetz hugs his bvd function
<subsume_> kgoetz: full system
<subsume_> Crap.
<kgoetz> heh
<subsume_> I've never had a good time with Ubuntu
<subsume_> This _always_ happens.
<subsume_> I'm afraid to restart my system
<kgoetz> subsume_: whats happening?
<subsume_> the physical terminal is just blinking
<subsume_> new SSH connections fail
<subsume_> my existing SSH connection cannot us ps
<subsume_> use
<kgoetz> hm
<subsume_> obviously something is bad.
<subsume_> at a low level.
<kgoetz> can you still access the logs? reporting a bug with
<kgoetz> the pastebin you listed earlier and hte logs it references would probably be valuable
<subsume_> nope
<subsume_> can't access crap
<subsume_> terminal died.
<subsume_> I'm having a "wish I was using Debian" moment.
<subsume_> power cycle.... lets see what kind of fun happens.
<subsume_> psh
<subsume_> can't even login as root.
<subsume_> maybe an LDAP problem
<subsume_> how the heck do I get around that?
<kgoetz> cant log in? usually when i get a live/install cd and chroot in and start fixing stuff up like that
<subsume_> kgoetz: and what on earth am I going to do therE?
<kgoetz> subsume_: finish the upgrade
<subsume_> hm. ok.
<subsume_> kgoetz: will simply getting a shell into / and running dpkg be your first move?
<kgoetz> subsume_: bind in /proc/ and /dev/ from the host, then chroot into the system and run `apt-get -f install` and `dpkg --configure --pending`
<kgoetz> fix/remove/add as required to get those two commands to stop complaining.
<subsume_> kgoetz: found its choking on ldap-auth-config
<subsume_> Unknown terminal: bterm
<kgoetz> never heard of bterm
<subsume_> dpkg: error processing ldap-auth-config (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error status 255
<kgoetz> try to dpkg --configure ldap-auth-config and see if it gives you a better error message
<subsume_> kgoetz: gives me the same error, more or less
<kgoetz> subsume_: open up /var/lib/dpkg/info/ldap-auth-config and put 'set -ex' at the top then try to --configure again
<subsume_> hmm that's elaborate
<subsume_> ok
<kgoetz> it should enable debug in the script
<subsume_> kgoetz: nothing different as far as i can see
<subsume_> that file didn't exist, btw.
<kgoetz> subsume_: ah
<kgoetz> subsume_: you need a .postinst sorry
<subsume_> what is that?
<kgoetz>  /var/lib/dpkg/info/ldap-auth-config.postinst
<subsume_> nickrud: k
<subsume_> kgoetz: got some additional output
<subsume_> [ ! ]  ... PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 export PERL_DL_NONLAZY [ ]
<subsume_> nickrud: encountered this upon dist-upgrade http://pastebin.com/m6ca4cf69
<highvoltage> hi kids!
 * RichEd waves to highvoltage and shudders to imagine him as his dad
<highvoltage> hah!
 * RichEd sees his mother shuderring doubly so ;)
 * ogra_cmpc curses intel for not at least putting a pinhole reset button in the classmate
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<ogra_cmpc> they use an internal battery, so if i really kill the kernel in a mean way so that not even the power button works i have to dissamble the whole thing to yank the battery out
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah. thats going to cause problems
<ogra_cmpc> IT COPIES !!!
 * ogra_cmpc dances around the classmate installer
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe.
<Kamping_Kaiser> whats copying?
<ogra_cmpc> my installer
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, i should be done with it by the end of the day, so a hardy image will be up tonight  ... i've put some effort in this weekend to make it able to install to *any* attached device ... so if you have a usb key you can just do a test install to it and boot/work from there
<RichEd> w00t :)
<ogra_cmpc> oh, and the image is only 850M now
<RichEd> w00t +n
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: got my mail ?
<ogra_cmpc> (the installer .... the instaleld system still takes teh whole disk)
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, if its important tell me quickly here, i'm staying away from mail atm to get something done
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: basically it's about a freeze exception for italc 1.0.7
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: mebbe the whole disk is used ... not critical ... it's now < 1/2 the download volume & speed
<RichEd> s/speed/time/
<RichEd> makes tight logistics one or two sweat drops less stressful
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: it fixes some bugs and make it a lot faster when you have >10 computers, though it also does some UI changes (removing useless stuff and dropping the Userlist panel) :(
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, not sure about the UI stuff ...
<ogra_cmpc> the others sound like proper bugfixes
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, no no, the installed image didnt change much (size wise) its the same partitioning scheme as in gutsy ... you still have 6-700M space for the user
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: well, I was wondering if we could get a FFe for it or should ask Tobias for separated patches (he of course would prefer that we ship 1.0.7 ...) ?
<ogra_cmpc> i'll talk to pitti or slangasek
<stgraber> thanks, I mailed you the detailed changelog
<stgraber> (so you can read it once you have access to a mail client :))
<ogra_cmpc> yup, thanks
<profe_sp> holas
<profe_sp> alguien en espaÃ±ol
<profe_sp> i have problems to config thinclients
<mattward> hello. I am running a edubuntu server in Virtualbox on a machine that has one ethernet port. i am then pxe booting another vm in virtualbox on a second machine. The second vm is not seeing the first edubuntu vm... :) not sure why. is there some sort of config i have to do on the ed-vm? btw this is on a home network
<johnny> yes
<johnny> you have to set up bridging most likely
<johnny> that is.. if you want them to have net
<johnny> if you just want them to communicate locally you can use internal network
<johnny> but NAT will not work
<johnny> NAT is the default i think
<mattward> thanks johnny i will try that
<johnny> you don't set it on the vm tho
<johnny> or rather
<johnny> if you just want to use internal network and not have net from your ltsp client or server , then you dont' have to set anything except in the vm config
<johnny> if you want them both to have access to the network, then you have to setup bridging on your host machine
<johnny> with the generated macs in the vm config
<johnny> my host machine is gentoo, so i can't exactly tell you how to do bridged networking in ubuntu/debian
<johnny> but iirc there are instructions on the vbox site for how to do so
<mattward> when i pxe boot the second vbox vm it does not find anything to boot from.. not sure if it is cause of nat on the lstp vm or not?
<johnny> yes
<johnny> it is
<mattward> ah ok
<mattward> so edubuntu vm should be bridged?
<johnny> or internal network
<mattward> right
<mattward> cool thanks. now gotta get back to real work.. i will try that when i get home. :)
<Muhammad_Saad> Hello, How long is a typical release of Ubuntu supported and which is the nearest Long Term Supported release?
<johnny> that's all on the site
<johnny> whn you try to download it
<johnny> the nearest one is in april
<Muhammad_Saad> I have read the FAQ but could not find what I am looking for.
<Muhammad_Saad> This April?
<johnny> yes
<johnny> when you try to download ubuntu, it tells you which release is lts
<Muhammad_Saad> How long will 7.10 be supported?
<johnny> not nearly as long :)
<johnny> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
<Muhammad_Saad> Please tell me exactly how long is a usual release supported and what is the period of support for an LTS release?
<Muhammad_Saad> I currently have the CD of 7.10
<johnny> it says so
<johnny> rightt here
<johnny> on that link
<Muhammad_Saad> I estimate that a usual release is supported for 1.5 years. Am I correct?
<Muhammad_Saad> And an LTS release for 3 years.
<Muhammad_Saad> Am I correct?
<johnny> did you read?
<Muhammad_Saad> Yes.
<johnny> The "LTS" version of Ubuntu receives long-term support. 3 years for desktop versions and 5 years for server versions.
<johnny> don'tforget server
<Muhammad_Saad> If I install edubuntu 7.10 now, will I have to re-install it when the new version is available?
<johnny> you can upgrade
<Muhammad_Saad> How? I donot have a fast internet connection
<Muhammad_Saad> I use dial-up
<johnny> you can order a new cd
<johnny> and upgrade from that
<Muhammad_Saad> Will it provide me any options?
<johnny> you use your current ubuntu and tell it touse the cd
<Muhammad_Saad> How?
<LaserJock> johnny: you can't upgrade from the shipit CDs
<johnny> you can't tell the current ubuntu to use the new cd for packages?
<LaserJock> well, maybe if you do Edubuntu
<LaserJock> johnny: you can't upgrade via LiveCDs
<johnny> why not?
<johnny> that sounds kinda lame
<LaserJock> there aren't any packages
<LaserJock> it's a live system, not packages
<Muhammad_Saad> I am asking such questions because I want to make everything sure before I install it. Please donot get mad if I ask too much questions. :)
<LaserJock> so there's nothing there to use to upgrade
<johnny> so, how are folks on dialup supposeds to upgrade?
<Muhammad_Saad> So please tell me the detailed process to upgrade.
<LaserJock> well, I would find a computer that has a good connection
<LaserJock> to download the Alternate CD
<johnny> that is no good..
<johnny> and impossible in some places
<LaserJock> yep, it's a very difficult issue
<johnny> can't ubuntu provide an upgrade cd then?
<LaserJock> not for free
<johnny> that people can order?
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm sure you can buy them
<Muhammad_Saad> So should I wait for the LTS release?
<LaserJock> you just have to get the Ubuntu Alternate CD
<johnny> you can't order the alternate cd via shipit ?
<Muhammad_Saad> What is Alternate CD?
<LaserJock> johnny: no
<johnny> i'm glad you spoke up then..
<LaserJock> they're already spending millions I believe shipping free CDs to people
<LaserJock> they don't want to ship any more than they have to
<johnny> i bet many folks are getting shipit cds they can't use
<LaserJock> well, a lot of people do fresh installs
<johnny> does hardy's installer actually let you keep your /home ?
<LaserJock> if you have a separate /home partition you can have it keep it I believe
<LaserJock> I just backup and wipe the whole thing
<johnny> not everybody has that luxury either
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> it's a difficult issue
<johnny> i know they were talking about adding that feature
<johnny> adding an option to keep your home is not a difficult issue afaik
<LaserJock> Muhammad_Saad: the regular CD you get from Shipit and downloads is what is know as a LiveCD
<johnny> it's just linux..
<LaserJock> johnny: Ubuntu doesn't want people using separate /home partitions
<johnny> then can't they rm -rf everything but /homet then?
<johnny> or similiar
<LaserJock> Muhammad_Saad: a LiveCD has an actual Ubuntu installation that it runs off the CD
<LaserJock> Muhammad_Saad: a Alternate CD is another way to  install that isn't a LiveCD
<LaserJock> it uses the actual software packages to install
<Muhammad_Saad> Please tell me. If I install the current version and then I want to upgrade using the shipit CD, What do I have to do?
<LaserJock> johnny: I would think that'd be quite error-prone,  but possibly
<LaserJock> Muhammad_Saad: I think you would want to backup the files you have and then do a new installation from the shipit CD
<Muhammad_Saad> OK. Thanks for the help.
<LaserJock> Muhammad_Saad: if you can get access to an Alternate CD for Ubuntu 8.04 you could use that for upgrading
<LaserJock> but I don't think you can get that from Shipit
<Muhammad_Saad> how?
<Muhammad_Saad> boot from the CD?
<LaserJock> yeah
<Muhammad_Saad> will it ask me to upgrade or install a fresh system?
<LaserJock> I believe so
<LaserJock> either that or you can put the CD in when you are logged into your current system
<Muhammad_Saad> Isn't Edubuntu an Alternate CD?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> Edubuntu 8.04 will use the Ubuntu Alternate CD for LTSP
<LaserJock> so it may be available from shipit
<LaserJock> but I don't know for sure
<Muhammad_Saad> If I want to upgrade from the CD while logged in, what do I have to do?
<LaserJock> I haven't heard the 8.04 shipit plans
<LaserJock> Muhammad_Saad: put the CD in
<LaserJock> I think that should do it
<Muhammad_Saad> automagically?
<LaserJock> pretty much
<Muhammad_Saad> Please hurry. I feel like I am going to be disconnected.
<Muhammad_Saad> ok
<Muhammad_Saad> I shall try that.
<Muhammad_Saad> Now I have to leave. Thanks a lot for all the support.
<LaserJock> I mean, you can install 7.10 now and see how it goes
<LaserJock> then figure out how to upgrade later
<LaserJock> maybe things will change in the mean time
<Muhammad_Saad> May be, May be not.
<LaserJock> but it's really not going to hurt anything
<Muhammad_Saad> But at least I can try.
<Muhammad_Saad> Bye.
<LaserJock> cya
<LaserJock> johnny: yeah, upgrading can be a beast if you don't have a decent internet connection
<highvoltage> hmm, missed him
<subsume> So would a common edubuntu configuration somehow block access to the WAN to all clients? I did something and all client internet access went down
<subsume> yet NFS still loads
<subsume> and they can see each other fine
<subsume> I was installing a fat client on the server. I can't recall exactly what step stopped it. I am trying to isolate it before I go into the cables.
<even> hi all
<even> i'm looking for a how to for customize ltsp with icewm. where i found that ?
<subsume> I thought net booting would be as simple as setting network boot in the bios but i am getting not found errors.
<juliux> ogra, ping
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, ping
<subsume> juliux: ?? that to me?
<subsume> What a ghosttown.
<subsume> Anyone know why a thin client would hang at 'STarting system log daemon'??
<johnny> are you using ldap?
<johnny> i just know that i saw somebody have that problem only in that case, but i don't know what it is really related to
<subsume> johnny: yes
<subsume> All the clients in my edubuntu lab cannot connect to the internet. The server can connect.  What could be to blame?
<subsume> I believe it happened while dist-ugprading
<LaserJock> subsume: did you email edubuntu-users?
<sudobash> subsume try ifconfig
<subsume> LaserJock: No
<subsume> sudobash: on client? ok
<sudobash> yes
<sudobash> tell me what it says
<subsume> boink
<subsume> I can ping the server... I know it can because the client machines have an NFS loaded home drive
<subsume> from the server
<subsume> sudobash: ^
<sudobash> I think it is the gateway
<subsume> hmm
<subsume> Honestly this is an unfamiliar lab....
<subsume> based on what i pasted you, is the gateway the router or the server?
<sudobash> well it is wherever your Internet is coming from
<sudobash> gateway to internet
<sudobash> so the IP which houses the connection to the NET
<sudobash> maybe you have an OpenBSD server with multiple NICS i dont know
<subsume> sudobash: sadly I see nothing about gateway in what i pasted you from ifconfig
<sudobash> or maybe it is a Netgear or Linksys Routers
<subsume> edubuntu server, edubuntu clients, 3com wifi router connceting clients
<sudobash> so the edubuntu is the server which has the NET and it is the Gateway
<sudobash> go to System -> Administration-> Network
<sudobash> and configure gateway on every machine as the Ed Server
<sudobash> BRB
<subsume> sudobash: hmm.
<sudobash> that is what is i guarantee
<sudobash> as long as the Net is not going to 3COM and is going to server
<sudobash> there are a few ways to have it set up like you say
<sudobash> multiple NIC's on the EDUserver
<subsume> sudobash: there are two NICs on the server
<sudobash> or having the 3COM hooked to the NET
<sudobash> right so you probably have one NIC coming from NET and one coming from 3COM
<sudobash> then your gateway is the SERVER
<sudobash> not the 3com
<sudobash> once you have configured the gateway in you will want to do this... you can even make a script
<sudobash> sudo apt-get ra0 down
<sudobash> sudo apt-get ra0 up
<sudobash> wait
<sudobash> sorry
<subsume> sudobash: but this was all set up fine a day ago... maybe I can jsut fix whatever happened to the server to make it a dysfunctional gateway?
<sudobash> wow how did i type that?
<sudobash> sudo ifconfig ra0 down
<sudobash> sudo ifconfig ra0 up
<subsume> Ok, I'm confused.... "no" ?
<sudobash> you asked if the gateway was in the info you gave
<subsume> No.
<sudobash> but you can tell it what gateway to use for the internet
<subsume> What I mean is ....
<subsume> sudobash: but this was all set up fine a day ago... maybe I can jsut fix whatever happened to the server to make it a dysfunctional gateway?
<sudobash> i dont think it is a dysfunctional gateway i think is a weirdly configured network that needs proper network admin tasks done to it for it to work 100% of the time
<sudobash> it is just proper technique as a Network Admin to set a Gateway address in situations like this
<subsume> sudobash: oh yeah? ok.
<sudobash> all the gateway does is say that is the PC with the INTERNET use that router to get to the NET
<sudobash> route* not router
<sudobash> TCP/IP traffic follows routes
<sudobash> they may pass over several NICs while getting where they are going but it is all invisible unless you uncap your NIC with software
<subsume> yeah you're kind of speaking above my head
<subsume> but i think i get you
<sudobash> but setting the gateway should work if it doesn't let me know and I will help you out some more
<subsume> ok, thanks
<subsume> sudobash: Do I run the risk of overflooding the gateway?
<sudobash> how fast is your server?
<sudobash> andhowmany clients accessing it?
<subsume> maybe 25 clients
<subsume> using NFS loaded home drive
<subsume> "Fat clients"
<sudobash> if it was windows i would say yes
<sudobash> if the server was windows yes
<sudobash> but Ubuntu I doubt it
<subsume> hmm ok
<sudobash> but you may have to setup more clients that can access storage
<sudobash> like ftp and ssh even
<sudobash> setup how many clients the daemons all allow at one time
<sudobash> but maybe not 25 isnt too many
<sudobash> if the server is of decent speed you should be fine
<subsume> ok.
<sudobash> tell me if the internet works when you set the gateway
<subsume> have you set up thin-clients before?
<sudobash> ummm some not very many... I can maybe get someone else to help you with it though
<subsume> hmm
<subsume> I'm not really sure how to set up the gateway.
<subsume> is it the same as netmask?
<sudobash> no the netmask is the subnetmask
<sudobash> like 192.168.*.* is 255.255.255.0
<sudobash> what you need to do is go to system-> administration->network and you should be able to specify an IP subnet and gateway along with DNS and what not
<subsume> ok but I'm not even sure how to find out what the gateway should be
<subsume> checked /etc/network/interfaces on server. nothing
<sudobash> go to server and do ifconfig
<subsume> I see nothing about gateway sudobash
<sudobash> your client 192.168.0.150
<subsume> yes
<subsume> 0.10 is my server
<sudobash> the gateway for 192.168.0.150 or whatever client there is... is going to be the IP of the Server... you have 2 nics
<sudobash> one IP is going to be the Internet IP and one is going to be the Local Area Network IP
<subsume> the one that goes out says IP = 1.5
<subsume> so...  196.168.1.5?
<sudobash> what is the other one
<subsume> 0.10
<sudobash> 192.168.1.5 is not reacable from 192.168.0.150
<sudobash> *your client)
<sudobash> (
<subsume> ......
<sudobash> so the gateway is the 0.10
<sudobash> and 192.168.1.5 is the IP the houses the Net most likely
<subsume> I'm really just not sure what you're even saying anymore
<sudobash> 1 nic is on the clients network 1 is not
<sudobash> yeah its hard to explain if you dont know much about networking
<subsume> I already get most of what you are saying
<subsume> But I'm not sure what you are implying I should do about all of this
<sudobash> 192.168.1.5 is the Net IP most likely and 192.168.0.10 is the IP of the SERVER communicating with the clients
<subsume> You said specify new gateway for clients, then said the new address is unreachable by the clients.
<subsume> I could have told you a year ago 0.10 was the server
<sudobash> they are bot the server but 0.10 is the one reachable by the clients not 1.5
<sudobash> but*
<subsume> yes....which leads me to believe some configuration in the server machine has gone awry and needs fixing
<subsume> but to that you said, no, i need to redo something about the clients
<subsume> which makes no sense because they were never touched in the first place
<sudobash> tell me something
<sudobash> is there a Modem of WAN cable plugged straight to the EDU Server
<sudobash> like a cable or dsl modem
<sudobash> or T1
<sudobash> or T3?
<subsume> Its hard to say because this thing goes into the ceiling but it looks to me like the server connects to a 3Com wifi router
<sudobash> or maybe just a network cable coming from somewhere else (another server/router)
<subsume> (hard plugged)
<sudobash> yeah i figured that
<subsume> I am talking to you right now by plugging myself into that same router
#edubuntu 2008-03-11
<sudobash> really?
<subsume> there is another wifi router that has lights a blinking.
<subsume> yeah.
<sudobash> so when you plug your client in the 3com it works
<subsume> there is another 3com
<subsume> not identical. no hard plugs in the back
<subsume> anyway, the second 3 com is flashing fine, which leads me to believe that IT is connecting the clients to the server
<sudobash> this is a strange network i am trying to picture in my mind but i follow
<subsume> yeah. sorry. it is weird.
<subsume> there is a blue box up there
<sudobash> well here is a suggestion to just do a test real quick
<subsume> with LOTS of connections
<subsume> and everything is connected to it I guess.
<subsume> oh wait, sorry, there's a black box too. ugh.
<subsume> anyway... yeah? test?
<sudobash> most likely your hard NIC connection you are on right now which is on the net as we speak is running DHCP
<sudobash> so it got an IP from the router/switch/whatever you plugged it into
<subsume> ok
<subsume> and most likely the server is also plugged into it
<sudobash> so is that the IP in the PM you sent me (ifconfig)
<sudobash> 192.168.0.150
<subsume> its another client connected via wifi to the LAN
<subsume> yes. 150
<sudobash> so 192.168.0.150 is you and you are talking to me right now
<subsume> nah. I am something else
<subsume> OS X has ifconfig hopefully
<sudobash> yes i think so
<sudobash> tell me your ifconfig in pm
<sudobash> dont past in channel it might kick you
<sudobash> paste*
<subsume> i know.
<subsume> =)
<subsume> my ifconfig is weird on my os x
<subsume> did oyu get that?
<sudobash> <subsume> macbook:~ y$ ifconfig
<sudobash> <subsume> .
<sudobash> it didnt give you anything?
<sudobash> maybe it got cut off
<subsume> msg me
<subsume> my client is stupid
<subsume> hi all. is there some way to access thin-client error logs? I'm trying to trace the cause of a failed client startup.
<kgoetz> hi all. just wondering.
<kgoetz> i saw on the -doc wiki pages that theres meant to be no large scale changes to doco made. does this mean its to late to try and ammend the install guide for edubuntu?
<RichEd> mr kgoetz sir ... greetings and my opinion
<RichEd> if the changes will make the users' lives easier, and are signinficant, i will help you make a plan to get them in
<RichEd> if they are not just signinininificant,  but are actually significant even, then doubly so
<kgoetz> sir RichEd mr , good to see you again
<kgoetz> i'll see what i can manage re doco then. no promice unfortunately - work is keeping me fairly busy
<Kamping_Kaiser> arvo :) home again
<pygi> kgoetz, what we can do tho is do the work post-release, and then I'll also help
<pygi> it's time we get that on the track again
<pygi> we had problems with documentation since edubuntu started to exist
<pygi> Kamping_Kaiser, ^_^
<Kamping_Kaiser> pygi, yeah. perhaps i'll learn to manage my time a little better and fit in actual edu work after release *heh*
<Kamping_Kaiser> i find the new installer quite strange
<Kamping_Kaiser> i should really start using bzr as the RCS it is (and commit stuff after changing)
<Kamping_Kaiser> it would seem the alpha6 cds are broken
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'no kernel modules were found' :|
<Kamping_Kaiser> or am i not meant to use it as a 'install on boot' type cd? hm.
<Kamping_Kaiser> theres a sort of add on thing in userland
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure how to use it though
<Kamping_Kaiser> think i've got it at least partly sussed
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll do some work to try and rewrite the handbook tonight
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, btw ...  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/8.04/
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, ^^^
<ogra_cmpc> i'd appreciate some installer testing
<Nubae> ogra, you around? just a quick question about accessing a remote floppy drive to write to
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt have any floppies 
<Nubae> ie, accessing from a thin client, writing to the same thin client's floppy
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: url loaded this morning in browser ... image file already in my download tool ... been trying to make space for 600MB target file
<Nubae> the floppy is installed here right /tmp/.username-ltspfs/floppy0?
<ogra_cmpc> sblaneav wrote the whole floppy part in ltspfs, he seems to be the only ltsp dev having floppies at all
<Nubae> hmm, I need to install images to floppies, and the only floppy drives are on my thin clients
<ogra_cmpc> it should create that mountpoint on the server, yes
<Nubae> seems silly to install linux just to do that
<ogra_cmpc> oh
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: unrelated ... Kamping_Kaiser / kgoetz had some queries about time left to amend install instructions for the manual
<RichEd> he is keen to give some input / do some changes / additions
<ogra_cmpc> why dont you just boot a client with SCREEN_02=shell and do it in the client console then with direcdt access
<ogra_cmpc> Nubae, you will need to dd the image to the device, dd wont work overthe net, it needs direct access to the hw anyway
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: scroll back and read when you have a chance and comment here or to me and karl by email
<RichEd> ta
<ogra_cmpc> will do during that day
 * ogra_cmpc just tries to get awake after staying up until 5am last night
<Nubae> ah, thanks, didnt think of that
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: i guessed you were either sleep deprived, or still busy with an extended monday :)
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<RichEd> that's why i left you in peace so far today
<RichEd> but kudos on the 8.04 image
<ogra_cmpc> need to get the daily builds running, i want to be done with the automation before beta
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc, ah, thanks, I've been meaning to ask you for that link again
 * highvoltage initiallises download
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, oh, btw, any news from jill wrt artwork .... time is getting tight, i fear we'll have to release with 7.10 artwork if we dont get anything this week
<RichEd> i'll poke her today ... in a manner of speaking
<ogra_cmpc> ok
<RichEd> i presume no actual action from the flurry of talk on the main art-work thread
<ogra_cmpc> hrmm, at least a fresh wallpaper would be nice ...
<ogra_cmpc> but given the beuty of the hardy one in ubuntu we have no big chances anyway
<Kamping_Kaiser> and a slightly less angy red ;)
<ogra_cmpc> *BEAUTY
<ogra_cmpc> oops
<ogra_cmpc> damed caps
<ogra_cmpc> Kamping_Kaiser, angry ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, map caps to another control. works a treat
<ogra_cmpc> thats christmas red :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, really? i find it 'temper reducing' red :)
<ogra_cmpc> well, its only the window borders anyway :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> and apparently ubuntu followed our orange in the gtk theme with hardy
<Kamping_Kaiser> i noticed it was a bit orangy - it converted quite hapily into edubuntu though
<highvoltage> hmm, I'll have to go get a 1GB usb disk
<Kamping_Kaiser> does the edubuntu expantion cd work with kubuntu, or just ubuntu?
<ogra_cmpc> Kamping_Kaiser, noetworkless will only work with ubuntu
<ogra_cmpc> *networkless
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, thanks for that
<Kamping_Kaiser> *notes*
<ogra_cmpc> but with working network you can install it anywhere
<ogra_cmpc> the packages on the CD only depend on ubuntu desktop atm ...
<ogra_cmpc> so you will miss libs on kde
<Kamping_Kaiser> i was just making notes for a rewrite of the install instructions, so i thought i'd ask about that
 * ogra_cmpc scratches his head ...
<ogra_cmpc> i have two identical classmates ... both were installed from the new image last night ....
<ogra_cmpc> on both i installed htop after install
<ogra_cmpc> if i boot them both and run a bare desktop one uses 120M and the other one uses 204
<Nubae> can I do anything but restart the server when this happens in my chroot: umount /proc
<Nubae> umount: /proc: device is busy
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats... bizzare
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt understand how thats possible
<ogra_cmpc> Nubae, type: mount
<ogra_cmpc> it should give you a full path
<ogra_cmpc> unmount the full path, not only /proc
<Nubae> thanks that worked
<Kamping_Kaiser> bleh. i broke my docbook again
<Kamping_Kaiser> who do i ping about shipit.edubuntu.org ? in two lines it uses "Edubuntu" then "EdUbuntu", and i think the latter needs fixing :)
<ogra> i think mailing shipit@ubuntu.com would help, not sure there is something in LP to file bugs though
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll do that. thanks
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, is the addon cd supposed to have d-i on it?
<ogra> no, but gfxboot ... there is a bug open
<ogra> i have to build a custom screen for that without menu
 * Kamping_Kaiser goes to find out what gfxboot is
<ogra> the cd bootscreen with the installer menu
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm assuming that your meant to boot up ubuntu then install edubuntu from in there, not as a bootup thing?
<ogra> you asked about d-i on the addon cd
<ogra> not about ubuntu :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeah i did
<Kamping_Kaiser> the only way i worked out to use the addon cd was load ubuntu then install edubuntu from in there
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: cc me in that shipit test ... we need to chat tomorrow at the weekly meeting about knock on effects of the name changes
<RichEd> ta
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. meeting
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, do you have an @ubuntu address?
<RichEd> yes richard@
<Kamping_Kaiser> what time is the meeting?
<RichEd> ta
<RichEd> tomorrow is 12h00 UTC i think
<Kamping_Kaiser> bugger.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm probably at SA AUUG still (but i will try to make it)
<Kamping_Kaiser> night all.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll probably not look at edubuntu today (which it is for me currently), but perhaps in a few days after this
<Sir_Remoz> hi
<highvoltage> 48% [++++++++++++=====>                   ] 435,876,407   26.21K/s  ETA 7:41:23  (*sigh*)
 * LaserJock sends highvoltage some real internet
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> how are things in LaserWorld?
<LaserJock> uggg
<LaserJock> grading lab reports
<highvoltage> ah. well, at least you get to play with lasers.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> our new one is sweet
<LaserJock> very quiet
<highvoltage> seen this? http://www.geekologie.com/2008/03/hercules_laser_sounds_powerful.php
<highvoltage> that would really look nice in my bedroom.
<LaserJock> geeze, that is hawwwt
<highvoltage> 20 billion trillion watts. I kind of find it hard to believe, but I'm not qualified to argue with such numbers :)
<highvoltage> i mean, 300 terrawatts
<LaserJock> I think my laser is 200 megawatts
<ogra_cmpc_> LaserJock, there is a hardy classmate image btw
<LaserJock> I saw something in -devel about that ;-)
<LaserJock> I'll have to grab it and give it a go
<ogra_cmpc_> yeah
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: mine is coming down slowly but surely, about halfway now
<ogra_cmpc_> its a real installer now
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: it will be done by the morning
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wow, that's still a lot of energy
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: btw, does the installer enable swap by any chance?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it is
<ogra_cmpc_> heh, no
<LaserJock> and I stuck my finger in it the other day
<LaserJock> made a loud snap
<ogra_cmpc_> i dont want to be sued for trashing flashdisks within a week of operation
<ogra_cmpc_> highvoltage, you cant swap to flash
<ogra_cmpc_> at least if you want to keep it alive for a while
<ogra_cmpc_> flash has limited amounts of write operations before it dies
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: hmm, ok. I swap to flash quite often. I think that they last longer than people give them credit for, but then again, I don't want you to be sued either, so it's best to play it safe :)
<highvoltage> so do hard disks.
<ogra_cmpc_> well, thats a1:100000 ratio
<ogra_cmpc_> flash devices dies way earlier
<highvoltage> i used to swap to my one flash disk for more than a year. it's a pity I lost it, I would've liked to know how long it would've lasted
<ogra_cmpc_> *die
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: are there plans to increase memory, or to decrease memory usage?
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: or should I first check the new image before I ask more questions? :)
<ogra_cmpc_> try the image
<LaserJock> ogra: does Jane know about your auntie-silber folder? ;-)
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> LaserJock: oO
<ogra_cmpc_> LaserJock, not sure
<ogra_cmpc_> but it was like a fairytale session
<ogra_cmpc_> so i had to take pics :)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: maybe this idea is just as crazy as swapping to flash...
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: but would it be viable for the classmates to find a "swap server" over the network with avahi or something and swap to there like in LTSP?
<highvoltage> hmm, ok already see the flaw in it
<LaserJock> ewww
<highvoltage> if they're out of wireless range their machines would die :-/
<ogra_cmpc_> technically it would be possible though :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well, slow swap would at least be better than now swap on low memory systems
<highvoltage> *no
<LaserJock> well
<ogra_cmpc_> yeah, you dont want network swapping via lan
<ogra_cmpc_> err
<ogra_cmpc_> wlan
<highvoltage> *nod*
<LaserJock> swap coming in-and-out is worse than no swap
<ogra_cmpc_> and to be honest i dont see a real ne4ed for swap
<LaserJock> as I go around the house ;-)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: heh, I see your fingers haven't gotten smaller yet :)
<ogra_cmpc_> i'm currently running ff with three tabs open, xchat with about 20 channels and three gnome terminals here
<LaserJock> ff3?
<LaserJock> that's quite a bit
<highvoltage> no kde applications though?
<ogra_cmpc_> ff3
<ogra_cmpc_> htop shows i'm using 173M
<highvoltage> ooh, htop FTW!
<ogra_cmpc_> still more than 60 free :)
<highvoltage> ok, that's a big improvement on the old image then.
<ogra_cmpc_> g-a-i is usable (with unuverse disabled at least)
<ogra_cmpc_> *universe
<LaserJock> heck of a lot better than Windows
<highvoltage> I considered making a spec for making htop the default in ubuntu, but I don't think the old gaurd would ever want to approve it.
<LaserJock> I could have pretty much only 1 major app open at a time
<ogra_cmpc_> sadly it needs more than 100M for the package cache if you use universe
<LaserJock> ahh
<highvoltage> LaserJock: besides that, how well does windows run from flash?
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: shew, I never realised that
<LaserJock> highvoltage: surprisingly well
<ogra_cmpc_> highvoltage, no, htop is surely nothing for having it by default ... but it should be in main (and probably shipped on teh cd)
<LaserJock> it's responsive, apps load fairly well
<LaserJock> just run out of memory easily
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: *nod*
<LaserJock> I couldn't even install acrobat reader because it ran out of memory during install ;-)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: but doesn't ubuntu have a policy to not have two of the same type of tools in main?
<ogra_cmpc_> win is a bit sparse if it comes to apps
<ogra_cmpc_> :)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: or has that been changed?
<ogra_cmpc_> it has been ignored for a while
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hah!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: for some value of "same"
<ogra_cmpc_> else xfce would never have made it to main :)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: ok, I always thought they could be a bit more leniant on that rule
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: for one, I really think dnsmasq should be in main
<LaserJock> the goal is to minimize duplicates
<ogra_cmpc_> the whole support system is changing though
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: but I'll get that fixed when I'm core-dev one day :)
<ogra_cmpc_> the infrastructure is able to build images from universe ... so xubuntu moved out of main
<ogra_cmpc_> that will result in more drops from main
<LaserJock> but next it'll all go away :-)
<ogra_cmpc_> probably
<highvoltage> what do you mean, LaserJock?
<highvoltage> ah, the seperation between main and universe?
<LaserJock> yes
<highvoltage> cool, one big main like in debian.
<ogra_cmpc_> ??
<highvoltage> then we'll freeze up more cmpc's :)
<ogra_cmpc_> debian has separation as we do
<highvoltage> or you, at least. I can't take credit for something like that yet.
<highvoltage> well, their main and universe is combined at least
<LaserJock> not a Main/Universe separation
<highvoltage> they just seperate on licencing afaik
<LaserJock> a Main/Multiverse type separation
<ogra_cmpc_> right
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> fedora also had that kind of seperation, also joined it together a while back.
<LaserJock> dang it, Hardy's going to fast
 * ogra_cmpc_ curses intel once more for not providing a reset button
<highvoltage> that's not Intel-unique. notbooks generally don't have them :)
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc_: get my pm?
<ogra_cmpc_> yes ... i always forget you cant read me
<ogra_cmpc_> its the right url
<LaserJock> danke
<ogra_cmpc_> :)
<LaserJock> I was at my grandfather's house over the weekend
<LaserJock> and he had a DVD of flying over Germany shot from a helicopter
<ogra_cmpc_> training your german ?
<LaserJock> they had some really awesome shots of some of the castles
 * ogra_cmpc_ woders why all people alwas learn their german from war movies ...
<LaserJock> I think it was mostly Bavaria that I saw
<LaserJock> hahaha
<ogra_cmpc_> scotties favorite is das boot
<LaserJock> it's what we've got
<LaserJock> heh
<ogra_cmpc_> and he can quote accentfree from that
<LaserJock> yes, I can do a pretty good "English with German accent" ;-)
<ogra_cmpc_> yeah its awkward to come from a country thats known for its killing devices and poison mixing skills
<LaserJock> not so great with the "German with an English accent"
<LaserJock> I think of the great philosophers and scientists
<ogra_cmpc_> about 150 years ago, yes
<LaserJock> there's still a lot of science
<ogra_cmpc_> inded
<LaserJock> lots of people here go to German for post-doctoral work
<LaserJock> *Germany
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: if it's any consolation, here in South Africa we also *really* love your cars :)
<ogra_cmpc_> but the times where my country brounght up people like einstein kant or goethe are definately over
<highvoltage> (and general German design)
<highvoltage> well, an ogra is better than nothing.
<highvoltage> *duck*
<ogra_cmpc_> lol
<LaserJock> yeah, we got ogra!
<LaserJock> and some say dholbach but he's really french so he doesn't count ;-)
<highvoltage> really!?
<ogra_cmpc_> i'm just a slacker that found the easiest way to slack paid ...
<highvoltage> LaserJock: don't forget asac
<LaserJock> highvoltage: no, I just tease him about being so huggy
<highvoltage> LaserJock: aaah :)
<ogra_cmpc_> hehe
<LaserJock> german people aren't supposed to be so huggy and smiley :-)
<ogra_cmpc_> that were our grandparents :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> there's a german lady that is my grandmother's sister-in-law
<ogra_cmpc_> its like the myth that we all eat kraut all the time :)
<LaserJock> and she's always at my grandfather's house
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's a good thing he is german, otherwise http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/album/udsparis2006/800_PICT0136.jpg.html would've been even *more* inacurate!
<LaserJock> ugg, kraut
<LaserJock> that stuff smells so awful
<LaserJock> I'll take the sausage, but leave the kraut
<highvoltage> I didn't know what kraut was, so I asked a bot:
<highvoltage> <Spinach> highvoltage: Kraut n : offensive terms for a person of German descent [syn: {Kraut}, {Krauthead}, {Boche}, {Jerry}, {Hun}]
<highvoltage> is that right?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but we're talking about sauerkraut
<highvoltage> aah
<ogra_cmpc_> yeah
<highvoltage> <Spinach> highvoltage: sauerkraut n : shredded cabbage fermented in brine
<highvoltage> I've been meaning to blog about this... but about two weeks ago, I bought a mac mini
<highvoltage> played a bit with OSX too.
<highvoltage> I had such high expectations for OSX, I must say that it's given me a new appreciation for Gnome
<LaserJock> pfft
<LaserJock> you gotta get used to it
<highvoltage> there are often people who complain that Gnome is too simplistic, and doesn't have enough features.
<highvoltage> but OSX is way more extreme like that.
<LaserJock> I'm a big OS X fan, except for the app install/maintenance
<highvoltage> it feels too simplistic even for a gnome user like me :)
<highvoltage> oh yes, the app install part is absolutely horrible.
<highvoltage> I'd say even worse than windows
<LaserJock> don't know if I'd *quite* go there, but it's interesting
<highvoltage> I'm still not sure what I do wrong, but sometimes when I drag an application to Applications, it seems to install it fine from the installtion image, but then after a reboot, the installation image is gone again, and so is the app
<LaserJock> weird, I've never had that I don't think
<highvoltage> OSX is snappy at least. it has a real low-latency feel to it.
<highvoltage> and I like the hardware, the remote that comes with it is also quite nice to have.
<highvoltage> I think being not-used-to-a-BSD-like-system also annoyed me a bit
<highvoltage> I'm terribly used to be able to do things like cat /proc/filesystems
<highvoltage> (and also to systems that support a wide variety of filesystems, since I'm on that topic)
<highvoltage> but... I've installed Ubuntu on it, and it flies
<LaserJock> you could always run KDE on it if you don't like the DE ;-)
<highvoltage> I'm tempted to try that.
<highvoltage> I'd even like to install Windows somewhere just to see how KDE would run on it.
<highvoltage> but that's quite low on my priority list. :)
<LaserJock> I gotta re-figure out squeak's license
<highvoltage> never looked at it. which license is it under? or is it their own license?
<LaserJock> the VM that is. first we had it as the squeak license, then the upstream guys say it's GPL, now I think it's some weird GPL+
<highvoltage> GPL+?
<LaserJock> GPL + added "stuff"
<highvoltage> I find that terribly wierd.
<LaserJock> there are 3 different licensing files in the source
<highvoltage> I've seen one guy saying that all his stuff is GPL, with a custom exception that it may not be used for commercial derivative work.
<LaserJock> heh, yeah
<highvoltage> that kind of defeats the purpose of using a GPL license in the first place.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: is it licensed used for different pieces of source, or is it all multi-licensed?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> "(If you received this file as part of a Squeak distribution then  please stop here and refer instead to the copyright notices in the individual files and to those in the file `LICENSE'.)"
<LaserJock> that's the top of the COPYRIGHT file that has the GPL
<LaserJock> now I
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure what he means by "Squeak distribution"
<LaserJock> but I'm guessing that's when you ship a squeak image along with the VM since the squeak image is licensed under the Squeak license
<LaserJock> we have them broken up, so I'm guessing we don't have to worry about that
<highvoltage> yeah
<LaserJock> however
<LaserJock> this is the COPYING file in the same dir: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5588/
<highvoltage> wow, what an awfully written license
<highvoltage> (no offence to squeak)
<highvoltage> hmm, it seems to say that if you derive, you must replace the license with a GPLv2 license
<highvoltage> (line 68 and down)
<highvoltage> oh, sorry, I misunderstood
<highvoltage> or did I?
<LaserJock> I think that's about it
<highvoltage> it's a bit ambiguous for me.
<highvoltage> it's quite interesting then.
<LaserJock> I've read that his licensing was to make it so that it could be both GPL'd and be included in squeak (which is not GPL-compatible)
<LaserJock> so I think this is a try at a dual-license
<highvoltage> a non-gpl'd piece of software, that can have gpl derivatives.
<highvoltage> why do squeak license under their own license? business purposes?
<LaserJock> it was Apple actually
<LaserJock> the code was mostly written by Apple
<LaserJock> they're now working on making it MIT
<highvoltage> aah
<LaserJock> in the mean time I have to deal with this :-)
<LaserJock> gotta run to teach
<LaserJock> cya all
<highvoltage> bye LaserJock. good luck with the teacjing :)
<highvoltage> woops
<Briareos_> how do i know which directory to provide for the "filename" of the dhcpd.conf for etherboot?
<Briareos_> i ran ltsp-update-kernels and it told me `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/vmlinuz' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/vmlinuz'
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: hi, did you poke pitti/slangasek about italc's FFe ? I have updated my patch to apply on 1.0.7
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: the UI seems almost the same, I just noticed some icons change and the Userlist panel removed
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I also found a MMX related bug on amd64 which will be fixed very soon (I basically just need to catch Tobias on Jabber :))
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: everything else works "just fine", no more warning/error message in the console, UI seems faster and I haven't been able to trigger a VNC bug (yet ...)
<LaserJock> ogra: I think we may want to try to update gcompris
<LaserJock> do you think it'd be too late for a FFe?
<slashdotfx> !seen elisboa
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen elisboa - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
#edubuntu 2008-03-12
<kgoetz> i just checked the edubuntu time - its probably 7am for me tomorrow, so i might be able to make it
<Nubae> anyone know if firefox-3.0 is beta 3 or 4?
<Nubae> in the gutsy repos
<Nubae> I'll ask in ubuntu, stupid question for here
<bdgraue> Nubae: beta3 is in the repos
<bdgraue> Nubae: in gutsy-backports
<highvoltage> 864150K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 99% (shew, getting there)
<ogra_cmpc_> todays image is slightly broken
<ogra_cmpc_> (missng xorg.conf)
<Nubae> wonder if firefox 3 beta 4 fixes printing issues
<Nubae> doesnt say in their changelogs
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: my md5sum doesn't match yours :'(
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: could I rsync my image (from yesterday) with yours somehow?
<highvoltage> perhaps I should just give it a go anyway...
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: my md5sum doesn't match yours
<Nubae> I'm trying to add printers from the command line like so: lpadmin -p hplj -v socket://192.168.0.65:9100/ -E
<Nubae> from within a chroot (low fat client)
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, you didnt download the .img while i wa uploading it, were you ?
<ogra_cmpc> *was
<Nubae> asks for root pass, which I put in and it doesn't recognise, then afterwards throws me out after I hit enter with lpadmin: Unauthorized
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: nope, it's yesterday's image
<Nubae> don't get it, I'm the root user already, why is it asking for a password, and why is not recognising that password?
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: could I rsync it from somewhere to this image? or should I give this image a go anyway?
<ogra_cmpc> i dont think theer is an rwsync perocess running on people
<ogra_cmpc> check if it boots
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra_cmpc> dding it costs you less than a new dowload
<highvoltage> indeed.
<ogra_cmpc> i just re-checked, the md5sum is fine
<highvoltage> thanks ogra_cmpc. I'll see what it does when I try to install it, after that I'll download it from a machine at work that wouldn't have any interruptions
<Nubae> gah, I get connection refused anyway from the low fat client, so much for getting printers to work
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, note that todays image is better but has a nonexistent xorg.conf
<Nubae> i guess just changing /etc/cups/cupsd.conf from LISTEN localhost:631 to LISTEN:server-ip:631 should work
<Nubae> btw, some people have emailed me asking me when ltsp-build-lowfat-client will be in ubuntu, I told them you were quite busy at the moment, but that it was scheduled for a future release
<ogra_cmpc> ugh
<ogra_cmpc> i hope you wrote it in a way that we can use it as modules to ltsp-buildclient
<ogra_cmpc> ltsp-build-client
<ogra_cmpc> s/modules/plugins
<Nubae> I've done nothing but make a howto and test so far
<ogra_cmpc> ah, k
<Nubae> I would not do that to you :-)
<ogra_cmpc> well, the implementation should be done through ltsp-build-client pluguns ...
<Nubae> yeah like current kiosk or myth implementations I guess
<ogra_cmpc> laga has done some awesome work for the mythtv diskless client ...
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<Nubae> yeah I looked at that
<Nubae> but there is still a lot to test before having a usable 'low fat' solution
<Nubae> but people seem interested so others are testing it too now, always helpful
<RichEd> ping ogra ...
<RichEd> i'd like to save a copy of the 7.10 classmate image ... but seem to have deleted the install file ... is there a way to "recover it" from the working install on the cmpc ?
 * laga hears his name
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, yes, a tricky one ... plug in the key with the new image and edit the syslinux.cfg file .... drop init=/sbin/cmpcinstaller
<bdgraue> hi laga :)
<ogra_cmpc> then you can boot the new image and use it to sqave the old one to a second usb disk
<RichEd> i don't have a second USB big enough ... any other suggestions ? ... could i use the new image to copy the old one across a network to another machines hdd ?
<ogra_cmpc> you can install the new image to an external disk
<ogra_cmpc> the new installer allows that
<ogra_cmpc> so if you have a spare usb key, use that one and keep the old one on the internal disk
<ogra_cmpc> s/old one/old install/
<Nuba1> darn, changing /etc/cups/cupsd.conf made no difference in the chroot, still defaults to trying to connect locally
<laga> ogra_cmpc: http://www.mythbuntu.org/node/134 <- does this look familiar? :)
<ogra_cmpc> haha
<ogra_cmpc> cool to see someone uses it
<laga> yes, superm1 added it..
<laga> now i just need to add dhcpd.conf wrangling to the control centre
<ogra_cmpc> very nice
<ogra_cmpc> the first code of LTSPManager had some pretty cool code to handle dhcpd.conf
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: did you poke pitti/slangasek about the iTalc FFe ?
<laga> i was just going to sed -i /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf -e s/192.168.0/<network>/g ;)
<ogra_cmpc> sadly i never came around to implement qa write function for it but the ui parts ()ecpecially teh automatic interaction of teh values) was something i was pretty proud of
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, i fear we need to patch
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: yes, me too :(
<laga> ogra_cmpc: http://laga.ath.cx/mythbuntu-diskless-mcc3.png <- i'm not sure if i've shown you the complete MCC section before
<laga> ogra_cmpc: i'll take a look at it, maybe i can steal something again :)
<ogra_cmpc> you clearly need to meet mpt some day (our UI specialist)
<ogra_cmpc> i'v seen the myth control tool before
<ogra_cmpc> it scares me
 * laga comforts ogra_cmpc 
<laga> i'll agree that the diskless tab has room for.. lots of improvement in the usability dept ;)
<ogra_cmpc> if i click "revert gui", do i actually get to see the back of my window ?
<laga> still better than doing everything in a shell
<laga> ogra_cmpc: only if you have compiz installed
<ogra_cmpc> the button suggests that somehow :)
<ogra_cmpc> indeed, its good to have a ui tool
<laga> if you ever tried to configure LIRC manually, you'll love MCC
<ogra_cmpc> i never had the need to :)
<juliux> hey ogra_cmpc
<RichEd> == edubuntu meeting = in #ubuntu-meeting == in 15 mins
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc: can i run the image from yesterday off the USB or does it need to be installed ?
<ogra_cmpc> as i said, you need to modify it to run it as normal image
<ogra_cmpc> hey juliux
<juliux> ogra_cmpc, suchix contact me, he said there is a school in kassel that get a lot of igel thinclients sponsored but they are not working out of the box with edubuntu, can you help them?
<ogra_cmpc> yeah he pinged me already
<juliux> cool
<ogra_cmpc> given that i didnt get more than 3h sleep for the last week i doubt i'll have time before release
<juliux> ok
<ogra_cmpc> (3h per day that is indeed :) )
<ogra_cmpc> do they match the minimal reqs ?
 * ogra_cmpc suspects its either lack of ram or they have an amd videocard
<RichEd> == edubuntu meeting = in #ubuntu-meeting == now
<RichEd> ogra / ogra_cmpc ? you up for the meeting ?
<ogra_cmpc> oh, i totally forgot ...
<Nuba1> hey laga, did u ever try to get your mythtv thin clients to print?
<laga> no
<laga> (why would i do that ;))
<Nuba1> print screen?
<laga> no
<Nuba1> I'm trying to figure out how exactly cups and ubuntu's printer config work together
<laga> video playback is good enough#
<laga> Nuba1: i use kde anyways ;)
<Nuba1> yeah, I'm trying to do this for my low fat clients
<Nuba1> everything else seems to work now
<RichEd> ogra & ogra_cmpc : ping
<Kamping_Kaiser> missed the meeting?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i thought it was changed to not be for another 8 hours :|
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: you asked yesterday, and i did say 12h00 UTC :/
<RichEd> but raise issues topics here ...
<calimer> H man there is also #ubuntu :D
<Hirato> I should probably ask this in the ubuntu channel, but does the packages for ubuntu contain only the binaries for one type of system, or for many (like 32 bit and 64 bit)
<RichEd> Hirato: there is a 32 bit CD and a 64 bit CD
<Hirato> well, I'm on 32 bit, and am trying to compile a binary for 64 bit :P
<calimer> so sounds like we'd have to do a 32 bit and 64 bit package
<calimer> 4 packages + win X\
<Hirato> and there's very few lib64 results that return if I do a search of the hardy repos
<RichEd> Hirato / calimer : give me some background and reference to the requirement / question please
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, you did, but i thought the email to edubuntu-devel said 21:00 :(
<RichEd> i may be able to direct you to an accurate answer
<calimer> RichEd http://kids.platinumarts.net
 * RichEd will check that in a few mins ...thanks
<highvoltage> ogra: it didn't boot :-/
<highvoltage> I'll have to download the image again then
<ogra_cmpc_> yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> was there anything i should have seen at the meeting? (i was at SA AUUG, so i wasnt near bandwidth)
<Kamping_Kaiser> night all, i have to crash
<RichEd> Hirato & calimer ... that sort of question would be best in #ubuntu-devel
<calimer> thanks RichEd :)
<RichEd> but, mvo, our master of the masters of the universe has kindly popped in here ... he's under freeze deadline
<Kamping_Kaiser> Hirato, the 32/64 question should be asked in #ubuntu (the answer is that its arch specific)
<RichEd> (tomorrow)
<ogra_cmpc_> rather #ubuntu-motu :)
<Hirato> heh, thanks
<ogra_cmpc_> if its about new packages
<RichEd> but could give you a few minutes of time for concise questions
<RichEd> i'd suggest you pop up the questions, and calmly keep an eye out for a reponse while you carry on with other work
<mvo> RichEd: dholbach is really the master of the master, but I'm sure I can help as well
<RichEd> mvo: sorry dholbach was my first thought, but then doubted my memory ... brain is currently simmering, if not fried
<Hirato> well, I just wanted to install some 64 bit bins in my 32 bit system, so I could compiel a 64 bit binary
<Hirato> wanted 64bit SDL libs
<mvo> Hirato: if you want to make a 64bit package its probably easiest if you just use the launchpad PPA facility, give me a sec to dig out the link
<mvo> Hirato: https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
<mvo> Hirato: the way it works is that you create a ubuntu/debian source package and upload it to launchpad. that will then take care of the building for both i386 and amd64
<Nuba1> neat
<ogra_cmpc_> or send you nice mails if it cant :)
<ogra_cmpc_> i.e. your app isnt buildable on 64bit or so
<Hirato> it's buildable
<Hirato> I got it to compile as such, but it just had issues with linking the executable
 * RichEd extends thanks to mvo for assisting ...
<RichEd> back in a bit ... s*** shower & shave ... in an attempt to refresh the brain
<Nubae> cool, got printers working on my low fat clients =)
<willvdl> ola compadres
<CorporateMusk> willvdl: hola
<ogra_cmpc__> oh, will was here ?
<ogra_cmpc__> i didnt even notice, bah
<ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, have you seen the grandpa of the classmate ? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/cbm.jpg
 * highvoltage opens link
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: haha!
<highvoltage> I had an Apple ][ once that was even bulkier and uglier than that.
<ogra_cmpc> thats a beauty !
<ogra_cmpc> bulky ...
<ogra_cmpc> ugly ... tsk
<ogra_cmpc> i would pay money to have one catching dust in my corridor
<highvoltage> oh, me too
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<highvoltage> (if you're talking about the commodore)
<ogra_cmpc> indeed
<ogra_cmpc> well, i wouldnt mind an apple ][ either
<ogra_cmpc> but i wouldnt pay for it
<highvoltage> I wish I had the space for things like that. I remember I mostly learned to read by typing in silly little basic programs from magazines into a ZX Spectrum
<highvoltage> those were the days :)
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> i had a VIC20 with a /real keyboard/
<highvoltage> oh, cool!
<johnny> ogra_cmpc, libxklavier 3.5 should include the patch necessary to make sabayon work in 2.22
<ogra_cmpc> ogra@ceron:~$ apt-cache show libxklavier12|grep Version
<ogra_cmpc> Version: 3.5-1
<johnny> aha.. :)
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<ogra_cmpc> good
<johnny> sorry, not on hardy atm
<johnny> i don't have enough ram to keep my various vm up all the time
<subsume|work> Does Dvanassche hang out in here?
<subsume|work> He's been updating https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
<ogra_cmpc> subsume|work, not under that nick at least
<subsume|work> hmpf.
<ogra_cmpc> noth sure whats the real name of Nubae ... bu he's playing extensively with fat client stuff the last weeks
<ogra_cmpc> so might probably be him
<subsume|work> Nubae in here?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc, ogra : bug 201536
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201536 in italc "FF exception, new release of iTalc (1.0.7)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201536
<pygi> oh noes, italc again xD
<jbrefort> hi bdoin
<bdoin> hi
#edubuntu 2008-03-13
<neil_d> Hi, I was wondering if there is a URL on how to setup a client with a HDD so it can be used as a server backup ?
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc, ogra : bug 201536
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 201536 in italc "FF exception, new release of iTalc (1.0.7)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201536
<ogra_cmpc> stgraber, seen the bug update ?
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: yeah !!!
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: Upstream will be happy :)
<ogra_cmpc> and we too i hope :)
<stgraber> I'm just waiting for a patch fixing screen resizing on amd64 (MMX thing) and will upload the new package somewhere so you can have a look at it
<ogra_cmpc> good
<Nubae> do you think this: /etc/udev/rules.d/88-ltsp.rules - interferes with local automount on a low fat client?
<laga> Nubae: i just removed the ltsp-client-core init script instead.
<Nubae> entirely?
<laga> actually, my solution wa snot to install ltsp-client, i just install ltsp-client-core instead AFAIK
<laga> i think
<laga> let me check ;)
<Nubae> ok, I'm not sure if automounting isn't working because of thin client init scripts or real local automounting not working
<Nubae> but I managed to get local printers to work yesterday, which I'm happy about
<laga> yeah, ltsp-client-core doesn't install that file... ltspfsd comes with the /lib/udev/add_fstab_entry scripts
<laga> i don't need ltspfsd on my clients so i don't install it
<Nubae> I can try and take it out as well then, not sure if I need it or not, I'm guessing not
<Nubae> so when ltsp-client-core starts, normally it install ltspfsd and you took that out?
<ogra_cmpc> it wont work without ldm tunnel in place anyway
<ogra_cmpc> and the udev rule would prevent you from using any kind of removable device
<ogra_cmpc> so remove it
<laga> ltsp-client-core is an init script.. if i ever find a init script on my box which apt-get installs packages, it'll be removed in no time :)
<laga> Nubae: i suggest you review the dependencies for ltsp-client and check if it's really needed. maybe ltsp-client-core will be good enough for you.
<ogra_cmpc> last time i looked ltsp-client-core was a package
<laga> you'll also find that /etc/fstab gets overwritten on boot
<ogra_cmpc> but it contains an initscript :)
<laga> ogra_cmpc: /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-core ;)
<Nubae> yeah taking out ltspfsd takes out ltsp-client also
<laga> ogra_cmpc: and packages don't "start" ;)
<ogra_cmpc> it never installed any packages though
<Nubae> so does /etc/hosts
<ogra_cmpc> but indeed its for configuring a parebone thin client system ...
<laga> wrt overwriting of fstab: this will hopefully be configurable once ogra upload a new ltsp package to hardy ;)
<ogra_cmpc> which means there is no /etc/hosts, no /etc/fstab and the like
<laga> fstab is overwritten in /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
<Nubae> what about /etc/hosts?
<ogra_cmpc> read what i wrote :)
<laga> which i'd like to keep actually because it contains some useful things
<ogra_cmpc> the ltsp-client packages purpose is to configure a barebone thin client system which is usually not configured at all and lacking these files
<laga> yes. i'm not complaining about that.
<ogra_cmpc> if you use ltsp in any other context the first thong your script should do is: update-rc.d ltsp-client-setup remove
<ogra_cmpc> laga, for now patching is fine, but i would like to move the common functions out of the initscript
<ogra_cmpc> so you can source a -functions file and just call thin_client_fstab() which then would create a default fstab
<laga> sounds more versatile so it's good
<ogra_cmpc> so your scripts can just source the functions and you should switch off the actual ltsp related stuff
<ogra_cmpc> that avoids confusion and results in cleaner code
<laga> i'd actually remove ltsp-client-core instead of ltsp-client-setup from init.. ltsp-client-core seems more harmful for my purposes
<laga> yup
 * laga shouldn't be discussing technical stuff when X is taking 100% CPU, making his box lag like hell
<ogra_cmpc> get a better graphics card or stop playing WoW while discussing :P
<laga> grr
<laga> i blame hardy
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: looks like I have a fix for the MMX thing
<ogra_cmpc> yay
<stgraber> he basically was trying to use MMX on amd64 ...
<ogra_cmpc> ouch
<stgraber> let's upload that to the local package builder and see if that also work on i386
<stgraber> no !!!, my pbuilder chroots have the new libc ...
<ogra_cmpc> wait a moment, the fix is already built for x86 ... waiting for the other arches
<Nubae> is there a page I can look at to know exactly how update-rc.d works, I've tried adding cupsys to it, doing update-rc.d cupsys default, but that doesn't seem to work
<ogra_cmpc> man
<ogra_cmpc> or man update-rc.d
<ogra_cmpc> :)
<Nuba1> does anyone know where I can get some more info on update-rc.d, looking through google is not bringing up anything
<ogra_cmpc> man update-rc.d
<ogra_cmpc> Nuba1, ^^^
<Nuba1> :-P
<ogra_cmpc> Nuba1, btw is your wiki name Dvanassche ?
<Nuba1> yeah
<ogra_cmpc> there was someone looking for you last night
 * ogra_cmpc looks through the log
<ogra_cmpc> .. subsume|work
<Nuba1> heh, well I have kde4 installed at home and weirdly, kopete has no irc plugins!!
<Nuba1> yeah, he seems to be working on the low fat client wiki too
<ogra_cmpc> right, i thinkl he wanted to discuss something with you
<Nuba1> k, well, I'll try to stay around a bit more, see if I can run into him
<Nuba1> is there something wrong with calling the ltsp chroot something other than i386 (ie, in my case I call it fati386)?
<ogra_cmpc> no
<ogra_cmpc> if you find that something chokes on it, please file a bug
<ogra_cmpc> all scripts should work with a changed chroot name
<ogra_cmpc> (with teh respective options indeed)
<Nuba1> its been fine for me, there's just a mention on the wiki that people have had problems calling it anything but i386
<ogra_cmpc> well, we wouldnt have added the --chroot option if we wanted to force that path upon users :)
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: iTalc 1.0.7 test packages : http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
<stgraber> ogra, ogra_cmpc : I have tested it on amd64, I'll try it on i386 later today
<ogra_cmpc> thanks a lot :)
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: ping RE: "profiling".  I was sitting at work thinking about a workaround, and I was wondering if you (or other devs) have investigated it.
<ogra_cmpc> crimsun, intrepid is supposed to have a focus on performance improvement and size reduction so that will be an essential part then
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: ah ok
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: I started implementing something at work that takes the post-install initramfs and compares it to what's actually used from lsmod.
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: it's pretty hacky, but I can already strip considerable modules from the initramfs
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: e.g., pci_hotplug and friends cause a 60-second probe/stall here
<ogra_cmpc> thats pretty much what i do on the classmate to speed up booting
<ogra_cmpc> even though i additionally cut down that list manually
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: how are you doing it programatically?
<crimsun> ah
<ogra_cmpc> but alone cating the output from lsmod into /etc/modules and redoing the initramfs brought about 30% speedup
<crimsun> right.
<crimsun> I suspect you're going further and actually comparing the usage field?
 * Paladine is off to Skegness Grammar School tomorrow :)
<ogra_cmpc> hmm, no, thats actually something i havent thought of ... the thing with the classmate is that it doesnt need to be dynamic the hw doesnt change
<crimsun> right.
<ogra_cmpc> at least not during boot
<ogra_cmpc> do you plan to be at UDS this time ?
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: nope.  I was at the last one.
<ogra_cmpc> i know ...
<ogra_cmpc> there i was very occupied by edu stuff ... this time will be more tech for me ...
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: I will see about documenting something using the wiki in the meantime.
<ogra_cmpc> i'll ping you if i put up specs for UDS so that gets discussed and included at the right place :)
<crimsun> ogra_cmpc: excellent, thanks!
#edubuntu 2008-03-14
<edistar> hi, can someone help me solve a problem (bug)? Alltough the users are logged off already some processes continue to run and eat all cpu time..
<johnny> edistar, perhaps check out gnome-watch dog?
<johnny> err gnome-watchdog
<edistar> johnny: thx, it's watching right now :)
<edistar> how do I set ssh encryption to none? just to test whether that is the bottleneck?
<johnny> LDM_DIRECTX in lts.conf
<johnny> that's a better test
<edistar> what does that do?
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: hey ogra. what do I need to install in the ltsp chroot for thin client manager to work? just the x11vnc package?
<ogra_cmpc> yeas
<ogra_cmpc> but i'd suggest italc :)
<ogra_cmpc> tcm was just dropped from the default install
<ogra_cmpc> 10 mins ago :)
<highvoltage> hmm, strange. I did install x11vnc, but it still tells me to do so (even after rebuilding the thin client image and rebooting the client)
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: cool, I can give that a try later on, but I need to make tcm work in this instance though
<Nuba1> heh really, tcm not part of edubuntu anymore?
<ogra_cmpc> its on the CD but not installed by default
<Nubae> ah, makes sense if it doesnt work
<ogra_cmpc> ??
<ogra_cmpc> it always worked
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: my volume control is disabled on the thin client machines, and it seems that there is no sound. the users are in the audio group, but it doesn't make any difference. anything that I should be looking at?
<ogra_cmpc> is that gutsy or hardy ?
<highvoltage> gutsy.
<ogra_cmpc> hmm
<ogra_cmpc> than it should work (havent tested hardy since weeks)
<Nubae> I meant the x11vnc part
<ogra_cmpc> cdheck the .asouncof.asoundrc (or so) file of the user
<highvoltage> ok, I'll come here again and investigate, at least school holidays is about to start so there's no rush.
<highvoltage> will take a thin client with me and check whether this sound card is properly supported.
<ogra_cmpc> Nubae, works fine here ... just requires manual setup since i didnt want evil x11vnc in main
<Nubae> yeah school holidays indeed.. I've got 2 more classes
<Nubae> for most people, that means it doesn't work ;-) [requiring manual setup]
<ogra_cmpc> if i find the time i'll disable vnc in tcm altogether
<highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: hmm, I think I should take a photo of this lab here, the kids just came in and are going crazy
<Nubae> what do the -x and -z flags do in /usr/lib/ltsp/ltsp_config ?
<ogra_cmpc> heh
<ogra_cmpc> Nubae, man test
<Nubae> just writing on the command line u mean?
<laga> yes
<laga> hitting 'return' afterwards is helpful, too
<laga> Nubae: man man, too ;)
<Nubae> yeah yeah, easier to get a smart remark sometimes than help
<ogra_cmpc> ??
<ogra_cmpc> that was help
<ogra_cmpc> from both of us
<ogra_cmpc> use man test to find out what the options mean
<ogra_cmpc> use man man to find out how to use man if you dont know yet
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt see smart remarks 
<laga> do you want us to read the manual to you?
<Nubae> there's a manual for ltsp?
<ogra_cmpc> the edubuntu handbook
<ogra_cmpc> installed by default, look in the help viewer
<Nubae> that doesn't help me with scripting
<Nubae> I get the point though, thankyou
 * laga was talking about manuals in general ;)
 * ogra_cmpc doesnt understand
<ogra_cmpc> you want a manual how to write scripts ?
<ogra_cmpc> laga, btw, all your changes were uploaded last night, sadly i missed the freeze by 20min so it sits in the rewiew queue
<laga> ogra_cmpc: that's great news! thanks a lot
<ogra_cmpc> thats not great news ...
<ogra_cmpc> that means someone will look at it and probably find things he wants changed
<ogra_cmpc> if i had been 20min earlier we would have saved that hassle
<laga> QA is good ;)
<ogra_cmpc> the diff is quite huge, there were 5 bugs and a handfull of upstream changes
<ogra_cmpc> and your plugin patch
<laga> yes.. that diff is fun to read.
<ogra_cmpc> oh, btw, does your client package have a check for /etc/ltsp_chroot ?
<ogra_cmpc> so you cant install it by accident on a normal system ?
<laga> ogra_cmpc: um.. not sure, but i was going to add something to MCC..
<laga> ogra_cmpc: i dont think so, but i'll add it
<ogra_cmpc> look at the ltsp-client package
<ogra_cmpc> there is code for such a check
<ogra_cmpc> in the preinst iirc
<laga> postinst wouldn't make a lot of sense ;)
<ogra_cmpc> well, preinst isnt great either
<ogra_cmpc> it breaks on out internal autobuild tests and needs blacklisting and extra paperwork
<laga> *shrug* you know, people are not exactly forced to install it on their normal boxes :)
<laga> oh
<laga> ok, i can see that..
<ogra_cmpc> but thats still better than having users that install ltsp-client on their systems
<laga> yup
<laga> we have a similar check in your trunk packages for MythTV (using debconf).. but those will _never_ go to main :)
<ogra_cmpc> right
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: Did you have time to test italc 1.0.7 before uploading ?
<ogra_cmpc> no :)
<ogra_cmpc> but we have four weeks for pressing bugs
<ogra_cmpc> the client will be installed by default from tomorrows build on
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc: what about the "no tcp port opened by default" policy btw ?
<ogra_cmpc> we're not ubuntu and that port is secured by ssl or did in misunderstand the design ?
<ogra_cmpc> s/in/i
<stgraber> oh, I didn't know it was only affecting Ubuntu and not its add-ons :) According to upstream, iTalc with the latest fixes should be secure. Previously it would have been possible to take control of any of the "client" while the teacher was running a demo but that's now fixed.
<ogra_cmpc> good
<ogra_cmpc> well, if that policy would apply to all derivatives then ltsp by default would never have been possible
<stgraber> did you set iTalc as a depends or a recommends of edubuntu-desktop ?
<ogra_cmpc> depends for now
<ogra_cmpc> but only -client
<stgraber> oh, quite a long time I haven't updated my edubuntu box : 460 packages upgraded, 49 newly installed, 10 to remove (= 472MB from archive)
<henrik_> Hello! Anybody who can give me a clue about the following error message:
<henrik_> ssh: /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254: Name or service not known
<henrik_> when running:
<henrik_> ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.4 server "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /var/run/drives/usbdisk-sdb1 add"
<henrik_> ?
<henrik_> (from the client..)
<henrik_> I'm using edubuntu 7.10, and can't get local devices to mount on server
<Nubae> heh, ogra, have to apologize for earlier, didn't realise that when u said 'man test' u meant it literally
<Nubae> I thought u were saying 'man, just test it'
<laga> hehehe :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<Nubae> heh, I guess irc can be confusing sometimes
<Nubae> there's me getting irritated, and in fact it was truly helpful
<Nubae> doh
<RichEd> Nubae: now imagine if you were an aesthetically or facial hairily challenged female ... the kind that wear comfortable shoes and play hockey... then you would *really* have been offended !
<Nubae> hehe
 * Nubae feels silly
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, should he have said `man [` instead? :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> clear up the confusion :)
<Nubae> would have been less ambiguous ;-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<laga> one would expect a linux user to know the "man" command ;)
<Nubae> yeah I do, but not "man test"
<Nubae> and to be honest wasn't thinking along the lines of it being a command
<Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, theres also `help test` (for the bash builtin). `man test` and `man [` are the external command 'test'
<Nubae> thought he was irritated because it was a stupid question and therefore said man test
<Nubae> sigh
<laga> man man. :)
<Nubae> yeah that I got, but still didn't think about the man test
<Nubae> in my defense, I was surrounded by 20 kids at the time
<jonathan__> ogra: btw, the problems with the sound card I had was a problem with that specific sound chip, and I had to reload the driver with some options, so it wasn't an ltsp related problem at all.
<Nubae> thank god school holidays have just begun
<Kamping_Kaiser> the perfect moment to have to experiment ;) (not)
 * Nubae will look a bit more closely at what is written next time
<Nubae> funny thing is, I got home and thought, I'll just type in man test and see what comes up
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<ogra_cmpc__> henrik_, looks like you are not logged in
<henrik_> ??
<ogra_cmpc__> /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 is created during login by ldm
<henrik_> Strange. I am logged in..
<henrik_> It's not mounting on other user either.
<ogra_cmpc__> did you break anything by adding stuff to lts.conf ?
<ogra_cmpc__> any weird settings
<henrik_> nope, just:
<henrik_> [printer-usb]
<henrik_>    MODULE_01          = usblp
<henrik_>    PRINTER_0_TYPE     = U
<henrik_>    PRINTER_0_DEVICE   = /dev/usb/lp0
<henrik_> [printer-lp0]
<henrik_> #   MODULE_01         = parportlp
<henrik_>    PRINTER_0_TYPE     = P
<henrik_>    PRINTER_0_DEVICE   = /dev/lp0
<henrik_> [00:c0:4f:71:f6:8e] #ws035
<henrik_>    LIKE               = printer-usb
<henrik_> [00:c0:4f:71:f6:83] #ws036 -- printerserver
<ogra_cmpc__> ugh
<henrik_>    LIKE               = printer-usb
<henrik_>    PRINTER_1_TYPE     = U
<ogra_cmpc__> please use a pastebin !!
<Kamping_Kaiser> glah :|
<ogra_cmpc__> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<henrik_> okay. sorry..
<Nubae> using non mac address settings never worked for me
<Nubae> also, the file needs [default] at the beginning
<Nubae> or wont work
<Nubae> ogra_cmpc__: if you didnt see up top, I was apologizing, I misunderstood your instructions for a comment (ie. man go and test it) not do 'man test', sorry...
<ogra_cmpc__> well, it wont break local devices though
<ogra_cmpc__> heh
<ogra_cmpc__> no need to apologize if i didnt express myself properly :)
 * Nubae jumped to conclusions, my fault not yours
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc__: I'm currently testing italc on i386 and VNC just rocks !!!
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc__: the screen auto-resize thing is just amazing, no need to scroll anymore
<ogra_cmpc__> yay
<ogra_cmpc__> i'll test with my classmates this weekend
<ogra_cmpc__> lets see if i can control the classroom :)
<Nubae> which version of italc is that, hardy's?
<stgraber> yes, 1.0.7
<stgraber> ogra_cmpc__: I'll deploy it in a classroom at my father's school and see how well it goes, nothing's better than lambda users for testing :)
<henrik_> No more clues on my problem?
<henrik_> I'm stuck with this :-(
<henrik_> Btw did the patch suggested in bugg 160420
<ogra_cmpc__> henrik_, wich release is that ?
<henrik_> 7.10
<ogra_cmpc__> ok
<ogra_cmpc__> which of the two patches did yu use
<ogra_cmpc__> the one for delayed_mounter is not needed
<henrik_> Ahh.
<henrik_> I did both
<ogra_cmpc__> all you need to do is delete the DISPLAY line in ltspfsmounter
<ogra_cmpc__> nothing else
<henrik_> Ok. I commented out that.
<ogra_cmpc__> no ned to
<ogra_cmpc__> its solved in hardy
<ogra_cmpc__> i should probably close the bug :)
<henrik_> :-)
<henrik_> But hardy i not comming before next mont(?)
<stgraber> henrik_: bugs are closed as soon as a fix is published in the devel release
<stgraber> henrik_: and only kept open if it's candidate for a SRU (but that's a different kind of bug report)
<ogra_cmpc__> well, i was planning to do a sru for gutsy, but currently i dont have the time to fiddle with ltspfs on old releases
<henrik_> I understand.
<ogra_cmpc__> the fix is trivial enough :)
<henrik_> Yes, but I got an error message I didn't find any solution for with google.
<henrik_> I find it strange
<henrik_> It's a pretty clean install
<ogra_cmpc__> RichEd, with zsync my download between the 20080312 and 20080313 image took about 10M
<RichEd> ogra_cmpc__: neat ... i can affort that :)
<ogra_cmpc__> ok
<ogra_cmpc__> first you need to install zsync
<ogra_cmpc__> then copy your existing image to be "classmate-daily.img" or so
<ogra_cmpc__> then you just need the following command: zsync -o classmate-daily.img http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/hardy-classmate-20080313.img.zsync
<ogra_cmpc__> (in one line)
<ogra_cmpc__> and then just wait :)
<ogra_cmpc> RichEd, added instructions to tehreadme file in the images dir
<ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, !
<LaserJock> hi ogra_cmpc
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: woah!!! somebody just uploaded squeak-vm to Debian NEW!
<ogra_cmpc> oooooh
<LaserJock> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/squeak-vm_3.9.12+svn1820.dfsg-1.html
<ogra_cmpc> the package you used ?
<LaserJock> no, never heard of the person
<ogra_cmpc> do you think it'll get through ?
<LaserJock> looks like they did quite some work
<LaserJock> and it appears to be a DD that's doing it
<ogra_cmpc> yes, i noticed
<LaserJock> maybe I should grab that package and give it to pitti :-)
<ogra_cmpc> Architecture: source amd64
<ogra_cmpc> hrm
<Nubae> if a program exists in rc2-4 that should be enough for it to have to start up right?
<ogra_cmpc> whats that ?
<Nubae> by program I mean script
 * ogra_cmpc has never seen "source" as target arch
<Nubae> doing update-rc.d cupsys defaults tells me it exists there already, but still don't get it to start up unless I do it via a RCFILE_NN= using lts.conf
<ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, we should talk to him, yes, but that architecture line is strange ... and that doesnt give us images
<LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: I think that's just the upload archs
<ogra_cmpc> ah
<LaserJock> so he uploaded source and an amd64 .deb
<ogra_cmpc> right
<LaserJock> and the images are no problem, we use my packages
<LaserJock> pitti really only had a problem with the squeak-vm part
<ogra_cmpc> yeah, i was looking at the wrong file
<ogra_cmpc> Architecture: any
<LaserJock> I gotta run but I'll look at it this afternoon
<ogra_cmpc> there is the right entry
<LaserJock> in the least I'll look at the package and grab what I can
<LaserJock> I certainly wish somebody had said something to me :(
<LaserJock> I feel like I wasted a lot of time
<ogra_cmpc> yeah
<LaserJock> I emailed 3 people about the license issue and haven't really gotten anything back
<LaserJock> I haven't heard anything from Matej Kosik in a few months
<LaserJock> ogra: did pitti say anything about squeak?
<ogra> no, he just noticed it
<ogra> he was about to leave when i showed it to him
<LaserJock> ok
<gregbrady> Hi everyone....I'm using Ubuntu and was recommended to ask you guys how to do internet filtering to protect my son.
<gregbrady> Ok, I guess not.....off to the next resource.
<Kamping_Kaiser> gregbrady, a bit of patence will take you a long way
<laga> well, my answer would be "don't let your son surf the internet alone if he's not old enough/if you can't trust him"
<laga> but you were probably looking for a software solution
<gregbrady> No worries, thanks.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i use dansguardian for a software solution, but it can be rather complex to setup
<laga> gregbrady: there are probably some websites dedicated to kids.. it's probably possible to set up your browser or a small proxy to only allow those sites. eg have a mnaula whitelist.
<laga> err, manual*
<gregbrady> Thanks!  I will check both ideas.
<laga> there are some dedicated services like netnanny, but i don't know if they'll work with linux
<laga> and something always gets through.. and if he's a geek, he'll figure out how to get around that real quick :)
<gregbrady> laga, of that I'm sure, but I have to at least make an effort to block the easiest to get to sites.
<gregbrady> like xmen
<laga> do i want to google that?
<gregbrady> no
<gregbrady> or monster movie
<gregbrady> innocent enough.....on the surface
<laga> a 2003 movie?
<gregbrady> not the one that I remember
<laga> i'd be more concerned about neonazi propaganda or porn
<gregbrady> exactly what he found....the monster movie site was not about actual monsters.....
<laga> and x-men was not about comics either, huh?
<gregbrady> um, no.
<gregbrady> Kind of funny, but not really.....
<laga> not if it's about your children, i understand
<laga> although i've seen stuff on the 'net where i had been glad if i had used netnanny :)
<gregbrady> very embarrassing and enraging at the same time
#edubuntu 2008-03-15
<laga> gregbrady: http://www.naomifilter.org/ <- maybe that's something for ya
<gregbrady> let me check, thanks
<laga> although i wonder if that will work on linux.. there are some links to other filters, though
<Kamping_Kaiser> i know someone had a dansguardian replacement project in LP, cant remember how far it had got though
<gregbrady> Kamping_Kaiser, you have both given me great links to start with.
<gregbrady> Does edubuntu not come with a software package?
<Kamping_Kaiser> gregbrady, OOTB? not that i'm aware of
<laga> my school installed a great filtering system which blocked lots of useful sites. yay. :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> most tend to do that.
<gregbrady> yeah, I can understand that.....filtering is a tough thing to do.
<laga> yup. those "one size fits all" systems don't work well in a school where you people as young as 10 and as old as 20
<laga> i wodner if they still have those win98 workstations. i'd love to deploy LTSP there
<gregbrady> I wish LTSP would work over a wireless network
<laga> it does. you just have to have the kernel on a pen drive/cd rom on the client..
<gregbrady> yes, but what about the server?
<laga> the server is connected to the wireless network?
<gregbrady> Yes, all servers and clients are wireless.  Nothing wired.
<laga> i'm not sure if desktop latency will be great over a wireless link, though. it should be ok for one client..
<laga> gregbrady: as long as there is a network connection you should be OK.
<laga> note: i'm not saying it's very practical.. i'm just saying it can be done :)
<laga> you will need an additional which brings up the network interface before the client boots
<gregbrady> laga, nope, didn't work.  I gave it a shot.  Apparently the server must be wired.
<laga> gregbrady: you probably didn't have the initramfs script which connects the wireless interface to the network before the client boots
<laga> that's the essential part
<gregbrady> laga, that could very well be the case....I only tried it once.
<laga> gregbrady: it's not terribly useful, imho. nothing to worry about. :)
<gregbrady> I will try it again when I have enough of a free time block to allow it.
<gregbrady> For now, it is more important to be able to control my son's internet access.  I want to make sure he has access, but not to the stuff that he stumbled upon today.
<gregbrady> So, if I set up a proxy, then the proxy machine must always be running with a static IP?  I have 5 machines here in the house where everyone has access and one main machine acting as a sort of server.
<gregbrady> any good online guides to setting up a proxy server?
<Kamping_Kaiser> theres an edubuntu proxy guide in the wiki
<lanuser> Hello - I've install edubuntu on a ThinkPad T40 but I can't get the splashscreen or fbdev support to work
<johnny_> you might get more help in #ubuntu
<lanuser> ok thanks johnny
<jonathan__> who's around and awake? :)
<pygi> highvoltage, what ya need?
<JDme> hi
<JDme> can someone tell me
<JDme> the desktop version is for my clients?
<JDme> right?
<JDme> and the Classroom server CD
<JDme> will be the terminal server
<JDme> and the Classroom server add-on CD is just for the server
<laga> if you want diskless clients you don't need to install anything on your clients
<JDme> like no hard drives at all?  on the clients
<JDme> is that what you mean?
<JDme> I was thinking   if the clients did have hard drives...
<JDme> it would thak some of the load off the server
<laga> well, you're going to build a termianl server, right? so all applications are running on the server anyways
<laga> s/termianl/terminal/
<JDme> how powerfull a server will I need?
<JDme> I think ther might be 30 PCs in a room
<JDme> I think there might be 30 PCs in a room
<laga> i'm not sure, i've never deployed LTSP in a real world situation.. i'm sure someone in here knows, though
<JDme> im new to this as well!!!    but I do have linux experience
<JDme> at the moment  I just put edubuntu on the clients
<JDme> and I dont use a server
<JDme> where might I find some example setups documentation
<laga> www.edubuntu.org might be a good starting point.. and their wiki
<JDme> ok Ta
<pygi> JDme, there's the outdated Handbook which can give you info about server requirements
<pygi> sample at least
<JDme> yea   Ive just found this   EdubuntuCookbook
<pygi> JDme, yea, that info can also be found there
<JDme> ah   this is what I was looking for....:)
<JDme> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
<Nubae> JDme: I use LTSP in a real world situation, we have 60 workstations
<Nubae> about 150 people use those, and there is one server
<Nubae> specs for the server need to be relatively high... must be at least dual core 2
<JDme> and how much RAM is in the server?
<Nubae> most important thing though is the infrastructure, you really must have gigabit switches, or things can be very slow when people start using video, java or flash content
<JDme> are the clients  resonable new?
<Nubae> yeah, ram is teh other part... for the 60 stations we have I have 8 gigs in the server
<JDme> wohhhh  that a lot or  ram!!!
<JDme> wohhhh  thats a lot of  ram!!!
<Nubae> the clients are not important, you can put anything u want on the other end, I've had some excellent results from old pentium 3 based machines in the 400-800 mhz range
<Nubae> makes no difference if the machine is the latest core 2 duo, or an old piece of junk, everything happens on the server
<JDme> and there is nothing installed onthe clients hard drives??
<Nubae> 8 gigs may seem like a lot, but its shared by all 60 clients
<Nubae> nope, an image is server from the server via the network
<Nubae> imagine like a live cd image, but through the network instead
<JDme> the thing is   I have loads of clients ( mostely refurbished PCs )
<Nubae> yeah ok, sounds like my situation
<JDme> with mostely 256mb ram and 100MB nics
<Nubae> In my case, our computer lab was furnished with dual core 2 ati based laptops, 21 of them, so I built an image that runs local applications on the workstations in question
<Nubae> local ram, local apps, local cpu power, this works quite well
<JDme> and is most of the daily administration around the server?
<JDme> the clients look after them selves?
<Nubae> one administers the images from teh server
<Nubae> you can go into a specific area of the server which is the client environment, where you can modify what teh image should do
<Nubae> or, if you are just using thin clients, you simply add the application on the server, and its automatically available to all the clients
<Nubae> very little /nothing is done on the clients themselves
<JDme> if I use thin clients....
<JDme> does the server have to be more powerful
<Nubae> yeah, the more powerful the better
<Nubae> the server can never really be too powerful
<Nubae> in my setup I run a dual core xeon based system
<JDme> sure      but then they get expensive!!!
<Nubae> yeah, you put all the money into the server, not the clients
<Nubae> the difference is you have all the clients running at the speed of the server
<JDme> what do you think of an old dell 6400 server
<JDme> it has 4 cpus and 2GB ram
 * Nubae is looing at dell's site
<JDme> and scsi 10000rpm raid
<Nubae> sounds excellent
<Nubae> has it got 2 nics?
<JDme> em     no just one 100mb
<JDme> why?
<Nubae> yeah, you really need 2 nics
<JDme> or it might be 1000mb
<Nubae> and must be 1000 mb
<JDme> but the clients only have 100mb nics
<JDme> what is the second nic for?
<Nubae> still, the server hands out more bandwidth than you'd think
<Nubae> especially in this case where the drives are pretty fast
<Nubae> one nic connects to your lan/router the other to the internal thin client network
<Nubae> doesn't have to be like that, but its the way its setup up out of the box
<Nubae> the nic on the thin client lan side really should be 1000mb connected to a gigabit switch
<Nubae> even if the computers only have 100mb cards, thats ok, bandwidth is still dsitributed from the server, so teh server needs a bigger connection to handle all teh requests coming from the clients
<JDme> most of the clients I get are donated
<Nubae> what spec?
<JDme> so I just scrub them clean
<JDme> could be anything from   p2 to p4s
<JDme> usually at least three years old ( and there the newer ones!!! )
<Nubae> right, well, I'd seperate them out, take anything under 1.5 ghz aside and set up as thin clients
<Nubae> the others though, are being wasted as just pure thin clients, you can set up a full diskless workstation on them
<Nubae> called low fat client
<Nubae> that means apps, ram and cpu is run locally
<JDme> hehe    low fat client!!!!
<Nubae> it also means you dont need such a powerful server
<Nubae> :-) yeah the name was coined by edubuntu users I believe
<Nubae> heh
<JDme> ok lets say I had a P4 with 512 RAM and 80GB sata hd..
<JDme> would that cut it as a server?
<JDme> for say 25 cllow fat clients
<JDme> for say 25 low fat clients
<Nubae> low fat, maybe yeah
<Nubae> the server in this case is only handling the connections really
<JDme> bascially I would build the servers from the best donations
<Nubae> there is another possibility if you can't get your hands on a high spec server, which is to create a cluster
<JDme> clusters   oh dear!!!   sound very technical!!!
<Nubae> but thats a different story, think it requires a lot of knowledge
<JDme> also the recipents of the clients and the servers (the LTSP server )
<laga> wasn't openmosix discontinued recently?
<Nubae> yeah it would combine the power of several computers together, like they do in the film indsutry
<JDme> will have very little knowledge
<laga> nevermind me ;)
<Nubae> yeah only recently too
<JDme> they are called server farms    I think
<Nubae> maybe not worth it anymore
<laga> Nubae: i think you can do loadbalancing with LTSP, eg clustering in userspace ;)
<Nubae> I remember reading about them being called beowulf clusters
<Nubae> laga: isn't that supposed to be built into hardy now?
<laga> i don't know
<laga> i don't use LTSP as intended
<Nubae> think I read it in the release logs
 * highvoltage catches up with this conversation
<Nubae> it looks like jdme has the unusual sitatuion of having relatively high spec clients
<Nubae> no server as of yet
<Nubae> and is looking to use one of the high spec clients as possible server
<Nubae> how many clients are you looking at setting up?
<Nubae> just 25?
<JDme> well Im not really sure     but thats about a good starting figure   25 clients
<JDme> it could go up to 50
<JDme> but it depends if I can get the server end sorted!
<Nubae> the calculations for ram are relatively simple... 256mb for every client
<Nubae> on the server that is
<JDme> that sounds very high!
<JDme> to acheive
<Nubae> you could set up 2 smaller ltsp servers with loadbalancing
<Nubae> sounds like its your best option, put the high end clients on one network subnet, the low end on the other
<Nubae> then you  can decide to go full LTSP and loadbalance or set up low fat on the high end client subnet
<Nubae> what about switches and nics? can u get those donated? I recently got some donated from some banks
<JDme> so I could use the P4s with 512 RAM and 80GB sata hd.. as the server for say every 10 to 15 low fat clients?
<Nubae> yeah that'd work, but I'd try to set up full thin client to begin with
<JDme> yes   the is a charity that will sell me 24 port switches for a very good price!
<Nubae> on the older equipment
<JDme> yes   there is a charity that will sell me 24 port switches for a very good price!
<JDme> but there  only 100mb
<Nubae> try and get gigabit switches, its where you'll notice the difference
<sudobash> 25 sounds doable but not 50
<JDme> so the idea was to create one server and one switch with 23 clients as a package
<JDme> and redistrubuit them like that
<Nubae> try it, the 25 clients are never all used concurrently right?
<JDme> well the might be...   they will end up in a class room
<Nubae> hmmm, all I can tell you is from my experience, running 40 concurrently takes up close to 6 gigs of ram and the cpu time usage goes up to about 30%
<JDme> ok       I understand what your getting at
<Nubae> anyway, for the low fat alternative look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
<JDme> well I had better go            and look around for some specs
<JDme> Thanks to all for your help and time :)
<JDme> I have a much better idea of what I might need to do!
<Nubae> good luck
<JDme> Ta
<glatzor> hello, I had to excahnge the -i386 kernel of my ltsp client with a generic one.
<glatzor> after running ltsp-update-kernels I only land at a busy box terminal
<highvoltage> L a s e r J o c k
 * LaserJock runs
<highvoltage> :)
<wicked_> join #xubuntu
#edubuntu 2008-03-16
<tbwnoob> whats up
<HedgeMage> hi tbwnoob
<tbwnoob> i got eduububto and i cant get past the password
<tbwnoob> v 7.1
<tbwnoob> does anyone know how to login
<tbwnoob> ?
<HedgeMage> Well, you set the password when you installed it, didn't you?
<tbwnoob> its live
<tbwnoob> when i boot from cd
<tbwnoob> it has a username and password
<HedgeMage> ahh
<tbwnoob> yea whats up with that
<HedgeMage> I honestly don't know, I have not used the livecd
<tbwnoob> how did you install it then
<tbwnoob> well can somone help me with this password problem
<tbwnoob> where are passwors stored on the cd
<HedgeMage> tbwnoob:  they aren't stored in plaintext
<tbwnoob> okay
<tbwnoob> so is the any default passes
<HedgeMage> tbwnoob:  did you try looking on ubuntu.org?
<tbwnoob> yea
<tbwnoob> they gave me this irc channel
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> unfortunately, everyone seems to be sleeping
<tbwnoob> ok
<HedgeMage> hang on let me poke around
<tbwnoob> ok
<HedgeMage> I'll be slow, though, I am lecturing in drupal chat a bit
<tbwnoob> ok
<tbwnoob> sudo -i
<tbwnoob> ?
<tbwnoob> in the username
<HedgeMage> tbwnoob:  you should have googled "edubuntu live cd password"
<tbwnoob> i did
<tbwnoob> i got sudo -i
<HedgeMage> tbwnoob:  second result says username ubuntu password blank
<tbwnoob> i tried that
<HedgeMage> really?
<HedgeMage> hrm...
<HedgeMage> *sigh*
<HedgeMage> edubuntu and blank password maybe?
<HedgeMage> you'd think they'd make it autologin like the ubuntu one
<tbwnoob> tried it
<tbwnoob> didnt work
<tbwnoob> sudo password root
<tbwnoob> or sudo -i
<tbwnoob> brb
<HedgeMage> right but you can't use sudo unless you are logged in
<Nubae> does anyone know if the XO one laptop per child could run as a thin terminal client?
<highvoltage> Nubae: well, it runs linuxbios, so I guess it would support etherboot
<highvoltage> Nubae: but why would you want to?
<Nubae> well, for one because sugar is not really ready yet
<Nubae> and 2 because distributing content is the main aim right now various programs
<highvoltage> personally, I would rather use a classmate PC if you want to use it for a very mobile thin client
<Nubae> I am looking at a volunteer position in Nepal, a pilot project with teh XO
<highvoltage> it has nicer hardware.
<highvoltage> aah.
<Nubae> government already has 200 laptops
<highvoltage> great!
<Nubae> and I was thinking of how to apply my ltsp knowledge
<Nubae> :-)
<Nubae> the main problem they currently have is lack of content
<Nubae> anyway, the XO lacks an rj45 network port so...
<highvoltage> ouch, I didn't realise that.
<Nubae> yeah relies entirely on mesh networking
<highvoltage> do you plan to use any of the default system on the machines?
<Nubae> well, at the moment the ui isn't ready, but the pilot project has started, they want me to concentrate on distributing content from servers
<highvoltage> hmm, I thought you could perhaps put the LTSP system on the machines (on flash), and connect to the server via wireless, but LTSP over wi-fi is a bit too slow :-/
<Nubae> ie, squid, content filtering, web based moodle like distribution
<highvoltage> Nubae: how much ram does that olpc have again?
<Nubae> well, maybe not if its all adhoc
<Nubae> 256, quite a lot
<highvoltage> Nubae: ogra_cmpc has a nice scaled down edubuntu image for the classmate pc, maybe that could be modified for the olpc
<highvoltage> cmpc also has just below 256MB RAM.
<Nubae> I have a small xubuntu image too, that works very fast
<Nubae> but edubuntu has the contnet, that's what interests them right now
<highvoltage> nice. Xubuntu works nicely in schools, but it has to be locked down. I ran Xubuntu in >200 schools too.
<highvoltage> what content specifically?
<Nubae> curriculum based stuff (science, geogrpahy, maths, english, etc.)
<Nubae> gcompris alone puts the current XO content to shame
<highvoltage> hmm, so why not just include gcompris in your xubuntu image?
<Nubae> anyway, I have a meeting with them tomorrow and wanted to mention ltsp and its benefits
<Nubae> that I've done, but not sure if teh XO can do it...
<highvoltage> yeah
<highvoltage> well I hope it goes well.
<Nubae> yeah thanks, the XO is cool at least in spirit
<highvoltage> yes, I think once the UI evolves to the point it is intended to be, and they do some slight hardware upgrades, then it would rock.
<highvoltage> I think the current cpu is a bit too basic for big python apps and such. gnome-app-install crashes if you have universe enabled with only 256MB ram
<highvoltage> so slightly more ram wouldn't hurt either.
<Nubae> maybe low fat will work better due to wireless
 * Nubae wonders if ltsp could distribute through a mesh
<highvoltage> Nubae: hope this doesn't overshadow the sugar development: http://www.olpcnews.com/software/windows/xp_on_the_xo_in_60_days.html
<Nubae> yeah, people aren't too happy about that
<Nubae> in any case, the focus is on open source and open content, would be crazy to put XP on it
<Nubae> not to mention power consumption
<Nubae> anyway ubuntu has been ported to it too, as an image
<Nubae> they say it runs more smoothly than sugar
<Nubae> gah... http://radian.org/notebook/paradox-of-choice
<highvoltage> RichEd, on a Sunday night!?
<arkaniad> Hello
<arkaniad> i found out something while installing Edubuntu 7.10
<arkaniad> well, i had ubuntu 7.10 installed and at my house i have a router and a wireless usb adapter
<arkaniad> in ubuntu 7.10 i was sure i config'd it right but it didnt work
<arkaniad> now, i am running edubuntu, and it works and i set it up like on ubuntu
<arkaniad> any conclusions?
<Methlogic> can anyone help me? i install... i partitioned my disk and rebooted i got to the install screen hit ok then it goes to CMD prompt and says everything is ok... then my screen turns green and fades slowly....
<Methlogic> anyone else have this problem?
<lulemurfan> does ms virtaul pc like edubuntu? , coz it just keeps stopping when installing
<johnny> lulemurfan, try virtualbox
<lulemurfan> whats that?
 * lulemurfan slaps lulemurfan with a Guppy Fish
<johnny> guess :)
<johnny> you're attempting to use virtualpc already, so you should have an idea :)
<johnny> virtualbox is free to use, and seems to run linux well
<lulemurfan> oh right
<johnny> i have no idea why or why not virtual pc gives issues
<johnny> since i've never seen it in real life
<johnny> but virtualbox is supposed to work nicely in both windows and linux
<lulemurfan> ok i'll try that
<johnny> to run either mac or linux :)
<johnny> and windows
<johnny> sorry, got it backwards, it runs in mac/linux/windows to run either windows or linux
<johnny> it can prolly run osx with hackery, but i don't know anything about it..
<lulemurfan> all it want it to do is run linux on window
<johnny> try virtualbox
<johnny> :)
<tbwnoob> hey guys
<tbwnoob> does anyone know why my cpu fan would be shutting dow at startup and make my computer overheat
<tbwnoob> ?
<shawn__> okay
<shawn__> i guess there was a small wire blocking my fan
<shawn__> i unplugged it moved some wires and now it stays on'
<shawn__> anyone here?
<johnny> try #ubuntu
<johnny> 99% of questions that apply to edubuntu also apply to ubuntu, since it is mostly the same , except the education apps
#edubuntu 2009-03-09
<Lns> happy monday all
<alkisg> (I guess that noone thinks that happy and monday go together, that's why noone answers... :P) - Hey Lns!
<Lns> alkisg: ;) Just trying to change the stereotype for Monday hehe
<Lns> "Looks like SOMEONE has a case of the Moooondays!
<stgraber> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> stgraber: what's up?
<stgraber> LaserJock: I'm mentoring one of my co-workers for MOTUship and he's done a fix for openvpn, I'm looking for a real coredev to uupload it :)
<stgraber> I've limited upload rights to LTSP and italc :(
<LaserJock> got a bug #?
<stgraber> will be bug 340120, I'm uploading the .changes/.dsc/.orig.tar.gz somewhere
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 340120 in openvpn "OpenVPN unexpected operator on startup" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/340120
<stgraber> it's a one-liner fix and a whitespace cleanup in an initscript included in the package
<Lns> stgraber: does this guy want to fix a bug/feature request in the ovpn client and/or networkmanager-openvpn? :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: a debdiff attached to the bug report would be best
<stgraber> LaserJock: will be done in a sec
<stgraber> LaserJock: done
<LaserJock> k
<stgraber> Lns: well, feature-request we can't and it's a mentoree for MOTUship, not really a coredev :)
<stgraber> *he's
<Lns> ah ok.. just wanted to get full .p12 integration so one doesn't have to manually extract keys to get it to work
<LaserJock> stgraber: still around?
<LaserJock> stgraber: uploaded
<stgraber> LaserJock: thanks
<stgraber> LaserJock: ok, will update my laptop and make sure it works
#edubuntu 2009-03-10
 * Lns is waiting for a callback from Canonical regarding a case study!
<LaserJock> case study on what?
<Lns> LaserJock: case study on how I use *buntu in my biz
<Lns> (just got off the phone)
<Lns> I stressed the fact that *buntu/LTSP is going to become bigger and bigger as time passes, and they should focus efforts on marketing toward the educational sector
<Lns> They were mostly looking for "normal" business server use with Ubuntu
<Lns> but they said that my case would make a great story
<LaserJock> Lns: did they know much of anything about LTSP/educational sector?
<Lns> not entirely, well this lady (Roz) was focusing on strictly business usage
<Lns> She was basically asking me some pretty cookie-cutter questions
<LaserJock> and there aren't any businesses involved in the education sector :-)
<Lns> LaserJock: lol
<Lns> quiet in here today
#edubuntu 2009-03-11
<faustino333> Does anyone tried to make an ltsp server in jaunty?
<faustino333> I have an error when i try to build the ltsp-client
<faustino333> it says that it can't get edubuntu-artwork-usplash
<ogra> faustino333, can you file a bug against ltsp for this ?
<faustino333> is it really a bug or am i doing something wrong
<faustino333> ?
<ogra> its a bug
<ogra> ltsp tries to pull in edubuntu-artwork-usplash for edubuntu builds ... edubuntu-artwork-usplash was removed from the archive some days ago
<ogra> but is still in ltsp
<ogra> ltsp needs to be updated
<faustino333> so i shoul do it where?
<faustino333> in launchpad?
<ogra> indeed
<faustino333> thank you ogra
<Ahmuck-Sr> i need to migrate my users from one server to another
<Ahmuck-Sr> is there a migration script?
<Ahmuck-Sr> i only need to retain permissions to documents.  everything else is needs to be new
<stgraber> ogra: looking
<stgraber> I have a ltsp planned anyway but that'll be post-beta
<stgraber> *alpha
<furiousdraz> hello
<furiousdraz> i have some problem to start my DHCP server
<furiousdraz> i have 1 network card  and when i launch /etc/init.d/dhcpd3-server i have the fallowing problem : http://paste.debian.net/30366/
<furiousdraz> nb : i would like to use edubuntu with LTSP
<LaserJock> furiousdraz: you are probably better off asking #ltsp
<furiousdraz> LaserJock : thanks, i find the solution to my problem ...
<stgraber> ogra: a quick search for "edubuntu" in ltsp's packaging returns nothing
<stgraber> ogra: same result for ltsp-trunk
<stgraber> ogra: where is that edubuntu-artwork-usplash thing in LTSP ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: did something get messed up by me removing edubuntu-artwork-usplash
<LaserJock> stgraber: I noticed that there was some stuff in the postinst regarding LTSP
<stgraber> not sure, it was with alpha-5 so it may well be fixed
<stgraber> I did a grep for edubuntu in ltsp's packaging and found nothing other than the ldm themes
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> in the postinst there was a section where it installed -usplash into the chroot
<LaserJock> stgraber: so did you see an actual bug?
<alkisg> stgraber: wow, just got a nice artwork in jaunty :)
<stgraber> LaserJock: nope, still not sure there actually is one with current ltsp and meta packages
<LaserJock> stgraber: when I looked at the code when I took it out it looked to me like either there won't be a usplash or it will be Ubuntu's perhaps
#edubuntu 2009-03-12
<faustino333> Laserjock: i've filled a bug today about edubuntu-artwork-usplash
<faustino333> because it's missing
<faustino333> and the ltsp-client fails
<LaserJock> it fails?
<faustino333> yes it says that it's missing edubuntu-artwork.ausplash and quits with the error
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<clueneeded> hi... is this a good place for beginner tech support questions?  :)
<clueneeded> <----- (promises not to ask about cupholders)
<stgraber> faustino333: how are you installing ltsp ?
<stgraber> LaserJock: around ?
<stgraber> LaserJock: I just did an install of the edubuntu addon following the usual testcase (that's installing it without internet). It fails for the KDE meta as it needs something that isn't on the CD.
<stgraber> I guess its the expected behavior and that meta is there only for KDE users ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: edubuntu-desktop-kde?
<stgraber> I think so yes, Edubuntu KDE variant
<stgraber> sounds like edubuntu-desktop-kde
<LaserJock> stgraber: I guess maybe that could be dropped from the CD
<LaserJock> although most needed packages are on the CD
<faustino333> stgraber: from alternate ubuntu jaunty alpha 5 cd with f4 option ltsp server
<stgraber> faustino333: ok, that's weird because I tried it back to alpha-5 though that was an offline setup, may be differentt.
<stgraber> faustino333: I just did a test yesterday with alpha-6 on i386 and amd64, both works as expected
<faustino333> how have you tried with alpha6 where did you get it?
<faustino333> stgraber: i've tried to build the client after updating the system
<stgraber> iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<faustino333> stgraber:thank you
<etfb> Does Edubuntu have an option/feature to limit the amount of time a user can be logged on in a given day?
<etfb> For example, could I set things so that my daughter can only use her computer for up to three hours a day?
<Nubae> etfb: maybe via an external program
<Nubae> something like what an internet cafe would use
<Nubae> but not built in by default, no
<etfb> Nubae: How odd.  It seemed like a very obvious feature.  I'm looking into timeoutd, but I don't know if it's reliable for X sessions.
<Nubae> yeah u can probably script something, but the user management is an area that is very poor in Ubuntu
<Nubae> id look into some cybercafe software: zeiberbude, ZybaCafe, OSPCC n Outkast caf
#edubuntu 2009-03-13
<humbolt1> Nubae1: you here>
<humbolt1> I got some questions concerning your fat client attempts
<humbolt1> Ui, to bad
#edubuntu 2009-03-15
<stgraber> LaserJock: hey, can you subscribe edubuntu-bugs to the ltspfs package ? We're already subscribed to ltsp and ldm but we're lacking ltspfs and so I missed a few bug reports :(
<stgraber> LaserJock: btw, you and ollie are the only two admins, would it be possible to make me an admin as well ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: on it
<LaserJock> stgraber: I've added ltspfs but ogra will have to add you as an admin
<stgraber> LaserJock: thanks, will poke ogra later
<humbolt> Nubae: ??
<humbolt> I am having trouble with your fatclient script.
<humbolt> ogra: Is Nubae real or fiction?
<humbolt> oh, I just fount his appearance in an IRC log. He is real.
<humbolt> How come I never catch him here. Even though he seems Austrian also.
<humbolt1> for some reason LTSP does not seem to be able to connect to nbdrootd
<humbolt1> All necessary config is there, all services running, hosts.allow entries there, ...
<humbolt1> any ideas
<humbolt1> or is nbd not fit for xinetd?
<humbolt1> what could be wrong, if my thin client boots up, but login does not work?
<humbolt> anybody here for a change?
<humbolt> LDM_DIRECTX is off by default I suppose? But does this only concern LDM or the following X session also?\
<humbolt> same question for NETWORK_COMPRESSION, what is the default and does this concern the whole X session or just LDM?
<humbolt> ogra: could you help me with this?
<stgraber> by default everything goes through ssh and nothing is compressed
<humbolt> stgraber: alright. if I have an atom client, ergo enough cpu, which settings would lead to the most responsive desktop?
<humbolt> and the best video playback performance?
<humbolt> stgraber: can it be that LDM_DIRECTX = false actually runs faster on my client?
<humbolt> it felt like it
<stgraber> LDM_DIRECTX=true
<stgraber> no, it can't be faster with = false
<humbolt> stgraber: ok
<stgraber> as X in SSH is a lot slower than directly sent from the server to the client
<humbolt> stgraber: when LDM_DIRECTX=true, do I have to enable XDMCP in gdm?
<stgraber> no
<humbolt> ?stgraber: so how is the connection made then, if not tunneled through ssh
<stgraber> LTSP doesn't even need GDM on the server (unless you wantt a local session too)
<humbolt> stgraber: really, interesting\
<humbolt> this damn keyboard
<humbolt> stgraber: but that only works, if not SCREEN_07=startx
<humbolt> right?
<humbolt> then it is an xdmcp session
<stgraber> indeed, you'll need gdm if you want xdmcp
<stgraber> but usually you don't want xdmcp as I'm pretty sure some things will break
<humbolt> NETWORK_COMPRESSION does only concern the ssh tunnel, right. ergo nondirectx
<stgraber> indeed
<humbolt> stgraber: and is only recommended for slow connections?
<humbolt> on by default?
<humbolt> stgraber: up to now, I don't see no usb pendrives plugged into my client coming up on the desktop. any idea?
<stgraber> is your user in the fuse group ?
<humbolt> yes
<humbolt> ok, actually I see 2 ltspfs processes on the server
<humbolt> ok, they are there
<humbolt> just don't show up on the desktop
<humbolt> I probably have that deactivated
<humbolt> is network compression on or off by default
<stgraber> off
<humbolt> works pretty well these days
<humbolt> especially with an eee box as client
<humbolt> have you ever tried nubae's fatclient setup?
<stgraber> nope, he uses NFS and I can't use it on the kind of networks I have (several thousands thin clients)
<humbolt> really!
<stgraber> so I work on getting the localapps working perfectly
<humbolt> several 1000s
<stgraber> yes
<humbolt> company or educational network?
<stgraber> I have one school district with 3k thin clients, another with 1k and a few more with pre-projects or ongoing deployments
<humbolt> where are you located?
<stgraber> I work for a company that does LTSP deployment in school and entreprises in the canada and US
<stgraber> we're in Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
<humbolt> quebec, great!
<stgraber> yep funny place, moved there 6-7 months ago (coming from Switzerland)
<humbolt> na servas
<humbolt> austria
<stgraber> hehe
<humbolt> was there for 6 month
<humbolt> 2 years back
<humbolt> Loved the fact, that they actually have some culture there compared to the US
<humbolt> and why exactly is nfs so bad for this kind of setup?
<humbolt> are we talking for home dirs or root?
<stgraber> both, NFS just ten to destroy my networks :)
<stgraber> We're doing centralized deployment so no server in the schools but everything in a datacenter
<humbolt> what kind of connection from the datacenter to the schools?
<stgraber> NBD can be compressed and doesn't trigger a read action everytime you see a file
<stgraber> fiber, between 100MB and 10GB
<humbolt> I see
<stgraber> with NBD you get caching on the thin clients and that means a lot less load on the server
<humbolt> alright
<stgraber> with the NFS our NFS server used to have a load between 100 and 120 with 3k thin clients
<stgraber> now the NBD has a 3-4 load when they're booting in the morning
<humbolt> I see
<humbolt> what are you paying for the 100mb to 10gb fiber?
<stgraber> no idea :) my company does the thin client deployment we don't do the whole networking
<humbolt> I see
<stgraber> usually school districts have their own infrastructure so it just cost them a lot to install it the first time
<stgraber> then it's their own
<humbolt> hmm
<humbolt> what kind of clients are you using there?
<humbolt> old pcs or something cool?
<stgraber> wyse thin clients (VIA based), webdt (Geode based), a few old computers and we're now working on finding a good atom base thin client
<stgraber> we're testing the eee box and thin clients from disklessworkstation
<stgraber> also the FX160 from DELL (don't like it, only the CPU is intel, everything else is SIS)
<humbolt> I am just now testing the eee box. So far so good. But I actually was thinking about moving to fat clients based on this hardware.
<humbolt> Still there are many things I am still concerned about with that.
<humbolt> And now that you mentioned the nfs issue, there is one more
<humbolt> am I understanding that correctly, with nbd temp files and logs written to var are stored in ram and lost on reconnect.
<humbolt> stored in the servers or the clients ram?
<stgraber> yes, but that's the same with NFS
<stgraber> the difference is that NFS exports a filesystem and so the hdd cache is done by the server
<stgraber> nbd exports a block device, so the cache is done on the thin client
<stgraber> reducing the number of read access done by the thin client (binary called very often or permission checks)
<humbolt> the cache. but what about newly created files
<stgraber> newly created files are in both cases (nbd and nfs) stored in a ramfs
<humbolt> so for a nbd based /home dir we'd need a cluster fs, so several clients can access the same blockdevice
<stgraber> no, we'd just do the same as for localapps and mount /home using sshfs
<humbolt> why is that better than nfs ... because fuse provides the caching?
<stgraber> because that way anyone on the network can't access your data :)
<humbolt> ok
<stgraber> it's extremely easy to get access to one's data with NFS
<stgraber> for the thin client root the main issue with NFS was the speed and CPU load on the server, for that the main issue is security
<humbolt> I see
<stgraber> with NFS everyone can read everyone's data without much trouble (IP spoofing in the worst case but that's easy on a LAN)
<humbolt> How good are local apps working these days?
<stgraber> not bad, I've my first deployment with firefox as localapp at the moment, still a few glitches when playing video (mplayer-plugin's fault) and I'll need an easy way of opening documents from the localapp firefox in a remote application on the server
<humbolt> wouldn't a fatclient be much easier to setup and handle in the long run?
<humbolt> and what about authentication in your domain?
<humbolt> you do ldap or aaa?
<humbolt> as you probably have a load balanced server env
<stgraber> ldap
<stgraber> fat clients would be a pain to maintain as you can't easily switch (as in on the fly) from a thin to fat client profile, updates would be a lot harder to push (basically reboot the whole network) and you'd need to let everyone on the network access the file server, ldap server, ...
<stgraber> at the moment the LAN only has access to the application servers and the application servers have access to the rest of the network
<humbolt> I see. So what are you using as file servers?
<humbolt> I was going to say, what if the root fs was not an image but a real block device, but I understand the benefit of the image lies in the squashfs
<stgraber> file servers are only used for /home on the application server, it depends on the customer but we do ncpfs (novell), cifs (novell/windows/linux) or nfs (but it's then limited to the application server and not available on the whole network)
<humbolt> I see
<humbolt> cifs, have not tried to mount one of these for a long time
<humbolt> smbmount used to be buggy with codepage handling. what do you use to mount cifs nowadays, and how are foreign codepages handled. does that work finally
<humbolt> I always had my mp3 filenames screwed up back in the days in university
<stgraber> seems to work quite well with recent cifs (cifs module in the kernel and mount.cifs or something similar)
<humbolt> you mount the individual home dir on login via pam or the whole thing from the fileserver to the ldm server?
<stgraber> individually
<stgraber> as they're often on different servers
<humbolt> Is your company hiring?
<stgraber> not sure, it's possible we still do (looking at the number of upcoming projects)
<humbolt> I'll paste you my email, if you ever need more hands and brains. I am just maintaining a smaller LTSP environment at the moment, but I am doing lots of other stuff with linux professionally. Used to work for a provider.
<humbolt> The one thing, I am having the most trouble with in my setup, is people just turning off the machine leaving running processes behind.
<humbolt> GNOME does not really take care of that.
<humbolt> What could I do to get this sorted?
<stgraber> I've written a daemon for that for ltsp-cluster
<stgraber> we can know where someone is connected and do the cleanup behind them
<stgraber> I believe there's also a simpler tool available done by another LTSP guy
<humbolt> I once installed an app for that
<humbolt> Did help a bit, but did not work all time.
<tom1> greetings.. new user here. I installed ubuntu just fine but my hard drive confg didn't come out how I wanted. Basically I have a 25gb primary partition(which is want I wanted) but the rest of my drive is not being used and I can't figure out how to access it and configure as an extended drive(The free space is missing or unmounted). Are there any disk management tools I can use to config this?
<humbolt> Or are you using KDE?
<humbolt> tom1: gparted
<tom1> i need to add the app gparted?
<humbolt> tom1: you must know yourself, I have no idea if it is installed on your system.
<tom1> thanks for the help
<humbolt> tom1: sudo apt-get install gparted
<humbolt> stgraber: the gnome-watchdog is checking if gnome-panel is still running to determine if a user is not logged in anymore. Is your daemon doing the same thing?
<humbolt> back in a sec
#edubuntu 2010-03-15
<koolhead17> hi all
<joerg> hi
<vmlintu> hi
<vmlintu> joerg: have you been working on the portal project you mentioned some time ago?
<joerg> sure :)
<joerg> hi
<joerg> vmlintu, I am just working on it right now.... the thing is, I somehow need more developers and more motivation.
<joerg> a project like that is quite hard in the beginning.
<joerg> I have written some specs, you know - but they don't attract anybody....
<joerg> I guess people want a demo / see some code.
<alkisg> Development is the best motivation for the open source world :)
<vmlintu> joerg: www.myserv-project.org ?
<joerg> yes
<alkisg> I've seen many, many many specs in #edubuntu the last years - only 1 or 2 of them got implemented..
<joerg> hehe
<joerg> alkisg, I am developing for some time now, but it is really hard
<joerg> if I had an active community around it, I'd be really motivated and be twice as fast I guess.
<alkisg> As sbalneav says, each one scratches his own back... e.g. I'm developing "school-scripts" because I need them, to use them in my classroom
<alkisg> So even if I had to do it on my own, I'd still do it
<joerg> I need people telling me that they need my work, people who challenge me with new things etc.
<alkisg> Did you send an announcment on the mailing list?
<joerg> yes......that's different
<joerg> I am doing that because I have a vision
<joerg> I am not a teacher or a student
<joerg> I am just enthusiast :P
<alkisg> If you did, and people didn't respond, are you sure that your project fits some existing need?
<vmlintu> joerg: I've checked the site a couple of times, but as it uses python, I really cannot say much..
<joerg> alkisg, well, ages ago I posted a rough draft.....
<joerg> and people like vmlintu responded :)
<joerg> but at that stage it was still too early
<joerg> vmlintu, you should learn python :) not only to contribute to that project ;) but to make your daily life easier.
<vmlintu> I'm more into ruby
<vmlintu> joerg: We've been working on a new version of the ldap based user management tool we've been using for schools
<joerg> vmlintu, is that web based
<joerg> ?
<vmlintu> joerg: yep
<vmlintu> joerg: hopefully we get it out before lucid
<joerg> that is php based?
<vmlintu> ruby on rails
<joerg> good
<joerg> that should mean it has a clear MVC structure and is easy to extend ;)
<joerg> in contrast to these php things which do great things but mostly have bad code
<vmlintu> we have an old perl catalyst based tool for user management that is now replaced with this
<vmlintu> We be using it to handle some hundred schools with 25-30k users
<vmlintu> we'll
<vmlintu> by default it'll be using openldap + mit kerberos as databases
<joerg> is there a demo/preview of it?
<vmlintu> there's no public demo yet
<joerg> vmlintu, ok....anyway, I am quite sure that we could integrate it in myserv somehow....
<joerg> if we extend it to authenticate using CAS, we could load it in an iframe and we'd be done
<joerg> that's what I am doing with roundcube webmail at the moment
<vmlintu> we are now running rubycas-server with kerberos to provide cas
<vmlintu> we've been doing some testing with oauth to provide rest+oauth api for external applications to fetch user information
<joerg> vmlintu, why do external apps need to talk to your user management tool? :P
<vmlintu> There are some educational applications running in the web that need user information like class level, pupil/teacher, groups.. now they need to import the data using files or setup ldap connections that require firewall changes..
<joerg> opensocial is the way to go :P
<vmlintu> opensocial uses rest+oauth :)
<joerg> yes
<vmlintu> implementing opensocial is just 100x more work than simple rest+oauth api
<joerg> no, it is not.
<joerg> it is 100x less work
<vmlintu> ?
<vmlintu> rest+oauth was like 30 lines of code with ror
<joerg> because the os rest api is well documented and tested - and there are lots of apps already implementing it.
<joerg> well, and?
<joerg> don't reinvent the wheel :P
<joerg> use the structure/methods that opensocial uses
<joerg> in your rest api
<joerg> choose the methods (e.g. to retrieve user/group info) and implement them in your rest api
<joerg> you don't have to fully implement open social
<vmlintu> that's what we pretty much did
<joerg> yeah, then it is fine.
<vmlintu> I just wouldn't call it opensocial unless it's the whole thing
<joerg> ok
<vmlintu> the user management tool won't implement any of these, anyway
<joerg> and I just wanted to say: don't invent another api :P
<vmlintu> If we do any of that, it'll be a separate application
<vmlintu> google's using saml and that's way more requested feature than opensocial
<joerg> sure
<joerg> but I am not sure if it takes care of all the other nice things
<joerg> like user/app data
<joerg> friendships / pictures etc.
<joerg> myserv is using it to provide a way to integrate gadgets
<vmlintu> friendships are not on our agenda really
<joerg> using javascript / iframes
<joerg> he he
<joerg> well, I have implemented friendships
<joerg> because I think it can be helpful
<joerg> if you can share files and/or collaborate with a group of people you trust.
<vmlintu> we are focusing on the k12 segment, so especially the grades 0-6 don't really benefit from that
<vmlintu> we have been thinking about "pre-defined friendships" that would be defined by teachers instead of pupils
<vmlintu> harassment by excluding people from group is a real problem in schools, so the tools need to address that
<joerg> hmm
<vmlintu> Or maybe a facebook application could be used to take care of all that.. Everyone's using it anyway, so bringing information from school to it would be probably easiest..
<joerg> you don't have to be friends with everybody, right? :)
<joerg> maybe finland is a bit more socialistic :)
<vmlintu> in class setting everyone should get along with others, I think
<joerg> yes
<joerg> so there is a group called "class 5a"
<joerg> but if lisa is closer friends with alice and linda it is perfectly okay, isn't it?
<vmlintu> I've talked about that here and the opinion seems to be that in that case they are most probably already using facebook or something else for their own stuff
<vmlintu> and nobody is going to trust a school-run system for their personal stuff
<vmlintu> but like I said, we don't have real plans for this..
<joerg> why not?
<joerg> my idea in the long run is to replace facebook and all that stuff
<vmlintu> you mean trust?
<joerg> students have an account at their school
<joerg> they need it anyway
<joerg> they usually have their friends at the school
<joerg> why can't they share (private) stuff there?
<joerg> e.g. fotos
<vmlintu> not all their friends are in the same school
<joerg> I want ppl to say: well, I have a great tool at school, why do I need facebook? :)
<joerg> that's true
<joerg> but for those who are I want to be better than facebook
<vmlintu> it'd most probably work for school related stuff, but I really have doubts about private stuff
<vmlintu> (actually here facebook is not dominating, but an older local competitor)
<joerg> because I think if a web portal (run by the school) get's a social meeting point for the students, it means that they identify a lot more with school
<vmlintu> that thinking is loosing ground over here - the new thinking is that everybody should be able to use their own tools and the school's system should be able to collect the information from all over the net
<vmlintu> meaning that if someone wants to use blogger for bloggin and someone else uses facebook for blogging, it should work
<vmlintu> personal learning environments are something in that direction
<joerg> lool
<joerg> a lesson has 45 minutes here
<joerg> if the project is to write a blog about something and people are using 5-10 different tools
<joerg> and the teacher only knows one of them
<joerg> that means 2/3 of the time will be wasted on technical stuff
<joerg> instead of producing content.
<joerg> we have had that issue a lot of times.
<joerg> it doesn't work.
<joerg> that's why most of the schools tell their students and teachers:
<joerg> we have ONE tool to make a presentation and that is called openoffice.org impress
<Ahmuck> i agree. setting the tools for an organization is the only way to go
<joerg> and if people don't have it at home, they can get a copy of it at school
<joerg> on their flash drive
<joerg> and if they prefer powerpoint
<joerg> they can use it at home
<vmlintu> the idea behind ple's is that the platform aggregates the content using rss/atom/whatever..
<joerg> and it is their responsability that it runs with openoffice
<joerg> yes, I understand.
<joerg> maybe in finland things are different.
<alkisg> joerg: where is that?
<joerg> but here, teachers are happy if they more or less know ONE tool
<joerg> there is no money for system administration and maintenance
<joerg> and teachers are not educated in IT concepts
<joerg> alkisg, germany
<alkisg> Nice, I didn't know openoffice was so widespread there...
<joerg> alkisg, I don't say it is wide spread
<joerg> it is up to the school
<joerg> I am freelancing for an organization that takes care of the IT infrastructure of 200 schools here
<joerg> the townships usually have contracts with us
<joerg> and they pay a certain amount per student/per year to us
<joerg> of course schools can buy a MS office license from microsoft
<joerg> that's up to them.
<joerg> but we don't spend a single cent on proprietary software we provide to the schools
<joerg> open office is good enough.
<joerg> and everybody can have it
<joerg> no matter if daddy is a rich manager or a poor worker :P
<joerg> and well, the PLE stuff is nice
<joerg> but that would mean students and teachers (!) would need to have an understanding of the technologies.
<vmlintu> ok, I'm back..
<vmlintu> over here quite a few schools are using moodle, but not all.. some use blogger or other blogging services and some use other learning environments
<vmlintu> and I've been hearing people talking about mahara lately
<vmlintu> that means that if we provide schools a portal, it'll be definitely different from the tools they are already using and the next school won't agree with the tools anyway
<vmlintu> that's why we are not doing any end-user services, but only administration tools and backend services for the actualy tools used by the end-users
<vmlintu> an aggregator that would collect content from different tools could be a solution here
<vmlintu> So basically the solution would be that the school has a default set of tools (for example moodle + blogger + teachertube) that is taught, but you can use other tools if you know them already
<joerg> hehe
<joerg> schools here never heard of moodle mostly :P
<joerg> apart from that, moodle speaks CAS and can use an ldap db
<joerg> so wouldn't be a problem to integrate that in a myserv portal
<vmlintu> moodle is not exactly that great tool, imho
<vmlintu> it's better than the old competitors that it replaced, but it's way too teacher-centric
<joerg> most of that stuff is simply overkill for our schools
<joerg> they want to upload files somewhere
<joerg> and they want to write e-mails
<vmlintu> here some are starting to use dropbox to upload files
<joerg> and the very advanced users use a wiki to collect results
<joerg> one out of 50 teachers :D
<joerg> you can do that
<joerg> if you have enough bandwidth
<vmlintu> what kind of connections the schools have there?
<joerg> with an ISDN line or a slow DSL you know what happens
<joerg> if 25 users upload their documents
<joerg> you have to ask people to start uploading 30 minutes before the lesson ends ;)
<joerg> some still have ISDN (128k up/dn)
<vmlintu> that can be a problem then.. I thought that 2/1 adsl is bad..
<joerg> DSL 2048k dn/196k up
<joerg> schools having 512k up are very lucky
<vmlintu> here many of the schools have 100Mbps fiber to city network that has 10 or 20Mbps internet connection
<vmlintu> some have 100Mbps internet
<vmlintu> it seems like the background is quite different - we have tons of existing tools that should be supported and more bandwidth - you have no existing tools and less bandwidth
<vmlintu> there are already schools that are using google apps for all their classroom work..
<joerg> vmlintu, anyway....we more or less have the same concept
<joerg> but we focus on both local and external services
<vmlintu> yes, the basic concept is pretty much the same
<joerg> I see the myserv portal as the integrator: it provides a CAS auth server, users can create a profile there, users can found groups
<joerg> and in their user and groups profiles they can do "things"
<joerg> like adding one of the apps you mentioned
<joerg> like an externally hosted blog
<joerg> or wiki
<joerg> or a vocabulary trainer
<joerg> whatever.
<vmlintu> who creates the user accounts?
<joerg> the only important thing is that the app "speaks" oauth/cas and opensocial
<joerg> if it wants to retrieve information about anything
<joerg> the admins do
<joerg> django has a nice admin interface
<joerg> if the users are in ldap, we don't have a solution yet.
<joerg> they would need to use whatever ldap user management tool
<joerg> a primary school won't need ldap
<joerg> that's why I don't want to marry ldap :P but only provide is as an option.
<vmlintu> we are using ldap for every single school
<joerg> lol
<joerg> we have primary schools with ten user accounts here
<joerg> for what reason should they run ldap?
<vmlintu> setting up a system without ldap takes way more time than with it
<vmlintu> as all schools use the same user management tool, we can support them better
<joerg> sorry
<joerg> vmlintu, we don't have resources to support schools managing users :P
<joerg> and if they have ten users and only use that web app
<joerg> we won't run and maintain an ldap installation for them
<joerg> it is just another thing to maintain and keep running
<joerg> and another DB to backup
<joerg> and the advantage is: none
<vmlintu> we are actually taking care of all the server management, so the schools don't even have to know that they have ldap..
<joerg> yeah
<joerg> exactly
<vmlintu> and training for user management tools is part of the service.. and helpdesk they can call
<joerg> they won't know it
<joerg> so there is no need to do that additional work
<joerg> will not be of any use for them.
<joerg> the web portal has user and group management in the postgres DB
<vmlintu> what additional work do you mean?
<joerg> that's perfectly ok for a system with ten users and no additional services
<joerg> additional work means: setting up slapd, running slapd, backing up slapd
<vmlintu> yes, in some cases ldap does not bring any features that would be needed, but in our case running some systems without ldap would make everything much harder
<joerg> hmm
<vmlintu> Now we have tons of identical servers that can be managed exactly the same way
<vmlintu> and slapd installation is fully automated with everything else
<joerg> and we will have 10-20 servers with a big ldap DB
<joerg> and 130 servers with just the webapp
<joerg> and a DB to backup
<vmlintu> we are using the same backup system for all the servers with identical settings
<joerg> probably these 130 servers will just be one or two big root servers in some data center
<vmlintu> and now that I remember, we need to be running kerberos anyway for the desktop, so ldap comes with it
<joerg> finland must be a rich country :P
<joerg> how many schools do you support?
<vmlintu> over 100 now
<joerg> ok. how many full time jobs do you have for that?
<vmlintu> setting up a server with automatic tools takes about 30 minutes now.. with ldap+kerberos+web tools+desktop+ltsp
<joerg> ok
<joerg> mostly you just enter the domain name and a root password :D
<vmlintu> we install also the networks and thin clients and give training to teachers and pupils
<joerg> just tell me how many full time jobs you have to support these 100 schools.
<vmlintu> 5
<joerg> you see
<joerg> we have 200 schools and two.
<joerg> actually 150 over years
<vmlintu> what I'm trying to say is that if some of the servers didn't have ldap, we'd need one or two more to support all..
<joerg> but now there's a new contract with some townships
<joerg> and we will have 200 very soon
<joerg> because that's the only way to hold the 2nd full time job.
<vmlintu> what are the thing you charge for?
<vmlintu> things
<vmlintu> I've understood that you don't provide the desktop itself?
<joerg> put a hard disk image on and old computer
<joerg> driving there
<joerg> setup the "server" there
<joerg> driving away and hoping that the hard disk will never fail :)
<joerg> it's basically just setting up a filtered proxy, mail, file and print server
<joerg> and taking that machine and bring it there.
<joerg> no clients :P
<vmlintu> ok, that's quite different from what we do.. we don't provide mail and pretty much nobody wants filtering
<joerg> lol?
<vmlintu> linux thin client desktops are the main thing
<joerg> so people are allowed to download porn and so on? :D
<joerg> we MUST filter the internet, because law requires that.
<vmlintu> I think the reason is that all the filters are so bad that they just encourage the kids to find ways around them..
<joerg> absolutely true
<joerg> we use squidguard with blacklists
<joerg> it is not that bad
<vmlintu> all the blacklists we have tried also give a lot of false positives
<joerg> why?
<vmlintu> teaching russian is not fun when half of the sites are blocked..
<joerg> hmm
<vmlintu> a lot of video and image sites are also listed
<joerg> nobody teaches russian here ^^
<vmlintu> we need to support russian keyboards on most systems..
<joerg> didn't know that there's such a deep "friendship" between finnish and russians ^^
<joerg> I thought you hate them
<vmlintu> and one of the worst filters filtered all the sites that had "sex" in the name.. it just means number 6 in swedish..
<joerg> I know
<joerg> that's why we just use these blacklists and that's it
<joerg> we are not filtering for any keywords or so
<vmlintu> we have now more or less working blacklist for the ones who want it, but most schools have unfiltered access
<vmlintu> btw, have you checked the tools like elgg or buddypress?
<joerg> well
<joerg> elgg yes
<joerg> didn't like the code
<joerg> didn't know how to make that run opensocial apps
<joerg> auth with CAS
<joerg> and stuff
<joerg> these tools all don't provide that pluggable concept
<joerg> the idea of a big integrator portal
<joerg> I want to be able to say: today we are running our photo blogging app locally, tomorrow we have enough bandwidth and it will be hosted externally without the users noticing anything.
<joerg> these tools are all very nice as a standalone solution.
<vmlintu> what's your plan, do you plan on supporting multiple schools/organisations from a single installation?
<joerg> but they don't provide the flexiblity of being the portal that is like a bolt tying all these already existing apps together
<joerg> yes, that might happen in the future.
<joerg> but not for now.
<vmlintu> ok
<joerg> but I could imagine that there's a library app for example hosted centrally
<joerg> there are a lot of good open source opac / library tools
<joerg> that could be on a central server
<joerg> only one instance
<vmlintu> I mean the portal - if you are going to run single instance to run the different portals for 100 schools if the network allows it
<joerg> using oauth/cas they'd be logged in automatically
<joerg> and could manage their books there
<joerg> thinking that's "their" library
<joerg> but in fact, they are just feeding a big catalogue.
<joerg> yes, as I said.
<joerg> we gonna do that
<joerg> as long as the bandwidth is so bad that we have to run local servers.
<joerg> if it is getting better the school will simply have a VPN router and that's it.
<vmlintu> ok, it sounds like the "portal" part that connects the applications is the same for both..
<vmlintu> user management is different
<vmlintu> providing any end-user services is not in our interest, so having the other portal features is not something we need
#edubuntu 2010-03-16
<highvoltage> hey
#edubuntu 2010-03-17
<Ahmuck> got a problem.
<Ahmuck> my clients start, present a login screen, user name & password, and then dump me back to the login screen
<Ahmuck> could it be the syslog server?
<Ahmuck> or something else
<Ahmuck> er, sorry, ltsp
<CTek> Hi guys, can someone help me with som information regarding LTSP. Thank you
<alkisg> CTek: what exactly?
<alkisg> Is it not in the docs?
<CTek> yes it is i did make it  with a test enviroments on 2 laptops, 1 server second test client but here is my problem:
<CTek> I have a eBox server in my organisation, It is based on Ubuntu, it can have boot biles sent via dhcp. and with LDAP integration this will be the perfct setup
<CTek> so i want to make the eBox server also a LTSP server
<CTek> It is possible to export the client image that i make to the ebox ? and work ? :)
<alkisg> Why not just install ltsp-server in the ebox server?
<CTek> this is what i want to do although the ebox server is a little complicated
<CTek> it has a config system that is managed via web and any modification made by hand (touching files directly) could be overwrittne
<CTek> so i have to do as little modifications to the structure as possible
<alkisg> If you install ltsp-server (not standalone) it doesn't include a dhcp server
<alkisg> So you can use the ebox dhcp server...
<CTek> yes
<CTek> i can specify to send a boot file
 * alkisg doesn't get what the actual question is.
<CTek> the question(s):
<CTek> 1 can i put a boot file made from another LTS server into a different bootp server and work ?
<alkisg> Sure
<CTek> 2 what are the special requirements to make on the server to make it work (instal LTSP server etc.
<alkisg> The boot file is served with tftp
<CTek> i mean can it serve the file with out the LTSP server ?? and the client will load the img ok ?
<CTek> yes
<alkisg> The "virtual disk" with nbd
<alkisg> Do you want the first, the second, or both of them in the ebox server?
<CTek> can you please explain a little more (like for a noob )
<CTek> i have parsed all the documentation but this porting thing is not "common knoledge" :)
<alkisg> How ltsp works? Do read the docs, it explains the architecture quite qell
<alkisg> *well
<alkisg> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
<alkisg> As far as I understand you, you don't need any porting at all
<CTek> ?
<alkisg> You just want to install ltsp-server in the ebox server...
<CTek> yes, exactly
<alkisg> That should be pretty straight forward...
<CTek> another issue is that the ebox is a LDAP server aswell
<CTek> ok here is a little short description of what i want to do:
<CTek> 1 copy the boot file that i made to ebox bootp
<alkisg> Replace that with "install ltsp-server and start from scratch" :)
<alkisg> It'll be easier this way, you won't be mixed up :)
<CTek> :))
<CTek> actually installing ltsp from scratch is simple :)
<alkisg> Right
<CTek> and will work out of the box
<alkisg> So forget all about copying, you don't need it
<alkisg> You just need to configure the ebox dhcp server to send a boot filename
<CTek> ok... and ... i end up using 2 servers instead of 1 ...
<CTek> i for dhcp and serves a bootp file that points to the second (LTSP) server
<CTek> and no LDAP integration
<CTek> :(
<CTek> sorry, i have to run now for some time
<alkisg> Erm, what?
<alkisg> I obviously didn't understand what you want to do
<alkisg> Come back later... :)
<CTek> ok, i'll be back in a short while i hope :)
<CTek> some admin task to do , Thank you for assistance, I'll shury return
<alkisg> If you want the ltsp server to be a different server than the ebox server, then you just need "next-server" in the ebox dhcp server.
<alkisg> No copying at all...
<Ahmuck> need a bot that does !ltsp and points to the docs
<mgariepy> good afternoon everyone
<Lns> hi mgariepy
<Lns> meeting, right?
<mgariepy> in an hour i thinks
<mgariepy> think**
<Lns> OH, stupid dst
<Lns> heh
<mgariepy> hehe
<alkisg> Meeting in 3' ?
<highvoltage> yep
<mgariepy> Lns, now it's the right time i guess
<highvoltage> I can't say that I'm ready for it
<highvoltage> sbalneav: moo
<highvoltage> sbalneav: we need another EC member for quorum
<alkisg> highvoltage: "Bug that crashes X when enter is pressed is now resolved" ==> when?!!! with a 3-day-old ubuntu live cd I'm still getting it...
<highvoltage> alkisg: it was fixed just a few hours ago
<alkisg> wow, nice! At last! :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: it will probably be in tomorrow's build
 * alkisg wonders why he didn't get a launchpad notification from the bug report...
<highvoltage> alkisg: maybe keybuk still needs to update it
<alkisg> Ah, here's the correct one, I've been monitoring duplicates etc: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/532047
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 532047 in plymouth "Plymouth text-mode splash causes X to crash on first run due to shared tty7" [High,Fix released]
<alkisg> Nah, it appears that there are at least 3 different issues with the same symptoms: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/529230
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 529230 in plymouth "X server crashes when enter key is pressed (dup-of: 532047)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 532047 in plymouth "Plymouth text-mode splash causes X to crash on first run due to shared tty7" [High,Fix released]
<alkisg> That one isn't resolved yet...
#edubuntu 2010-03-18
<Ahmuck> is there a way to tell aptitude on ltsp server to auto update ltsp image?
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<Ahmuck> sbalneav alkisg nubae stgraber - i want to thank you for you help in the last year. it's been an interesting expierment. be well.
<alkisg> Ahmuck: thanks, how so? Are you leaving?
<Lns> man, the ubuntu livecd download site is really cumbersome to navigate
#edubuntu 2010-03-19
<HedgeMage> Ping, anybody with a free moment to help me test gobby.
<alkisg> !info chromium-browser karmic
<ubottu> Package chromium-browser does not exist in karmic
<alkisg> !info chromium-browser lucid
<ubottu> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium browser. In component universe, is optional. Version 5.0.307.9~r39052-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 10920 kB, installed size 37380 kB
<alkisg> !info gyp karmic
<ubottu> Package gyp does not exist in karmic
<mgariepy> morning everyone
<highvoltage> morning mgariepy!
<mgariepy> who you doing highvoltage ?
<highvoltage> no one unfortunately :/
<highvoltage> mgariepy: heh no it's going good. planning my day (even though it's already past 5pm)
<mgariepy> planning your friday evening ?
<mgariepy> when do you expect to be over here ?
<highvoltage> mgariepy: I'm waiting for my passport back with the visa in. the embassy doesn't provide any feedback so I have no idea yet whether it's approved yet or not
<highvoltage> mgariepy: they've had all the information they need for a while now, I hoped that I would get it in the post this week but it didn't come
<mgariepy> ok
<highvoltage> mgariepy: it's a bit discouraging, hopefully it's in the post next week now
<mgariepy> i hope so.
<highvoltage> once I have it I'll just need a few days to tie some loose ends and then I'll come over
<joerg> hi
<Lns> please, oh please, let's not let this happen in the final release... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 532633 in metacity "[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to "menu:minimize,maximize,close"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alkisg> It actually makes more sense when they're on the left
<Lns> how, when they've been on the right since....?? forever?
<stgraber> minimize the mouse traveling distance quite a lot
<alkisg> I do prefer them on the right. But, if they're to be on the left, the new order of the buttons makes more sense
<Lns> stgraber: how do you figure?
 * inetpro moved minimize, maximize and exit buttons on kubuntu to the left and actually like it
<Lns> I would hate to be the one to tell my users "Oh, you'll like it this way" when most of them are using Windows at home and have to go back and forth
<Lns> not to use windows as an excuse..it's just "known" that the right is where its always been
 * inetpro agrees with stgraber, my general experience is that my mouse is usually closer to the left than to the right
<inetpro> Lns: the only constant thing in life is change. Get over it.
<Lns> inetpro: I guess so...which means i'll be "changing" from having a contract with a school district to "not" having one =p
<inetpro> I've had my buttons switched like this for only one day and expect to keep them like this
<Lns> For us it's an easy thing to get used to..for teachers, ....that is a much different story
<Lns> as ironic as it is, teachers are the least likely to want to learn something new.
<inetpro> Lns: heh, tell me about it
<Lns> And how bout this - inconsistency with apps that don't use wm widgets
<Lns> inconsistency with every other wm/de in linux
<inetpro> the sad part is that they are the ones who think they know it all
<Lns> well of course =)
<Lns> I dunno, i'm probably making a bigger deal out of it than it is, but...jeez i'm gonna make sure that gconf key is set before anyone sees it =p
<inetpro> Lns: I think it's worth a try to put the buttons on the left, it's not difficult to adapt to that
<inetpro> people are making way to much of this issue
<Lns> inetpro: I agree, I will probably keep it on the left for myself..i'm just thinking about the support call flood
<inetpro> trust me, usability guys were involved in the decision
<Lns> I'd like to at least hear some real answers as to WHY such a drastic change was committed, hours before FF
<Lns> by usability guys
<inetpro> Lns: is it really so drastic as people say it is?
<Lns> and nobody could contest it
<Lns> inetpro: look at the bug report.
<inetpro> Lns: I've seen it and it's ludicrous
<Lns> Shuttleworth himself is involved in it. that means its a big deal to people
<inetpro> people hate change, it's as simple as that
<Lns> of course they do
<Lns> so why force them to?
<inetpro> shuttleworth was making good points and I agree with him
<inetpro> Lns: at some point somebody has to make a decision
<inetpro> there are many different specialised teams for every small bit of development in the development lifecycle of open source software
<inetpro> and what I have seen is that its open for anybody to take part
<inetpro> teams have regular meetings, and that is where the decisions are made
<inetpro> ultimately if users really don't like the change they may very well revert to the original, but I think it's worth a try
<Lns> at least i sure hope they make it easy to revert w/o having to use gconf. That's gonna make a bunch of normal users really unhappy toward ubuntu
<alkisg> It'll be difficult for courses too
<alkisg> There's lot of written books with the buttons on the right... hard to rewrite them
<Lns> Just seems like such a core thing to change just on the fly like that. Like when supermarkets just all of the sudden change their store layout for no apparent reason
#edubuntu 2010-03-20
<alkisg> !info ltsp-client lucid
<ubottu> ltsp-client (source: ltsp): LTSP client environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.2-0ubuntu4 (lucid), package size 42 kB, installed size 72 kB
#edubuntu 2010-03-21
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: http://www.qimo4kids.com/post/Illa-Desktop-Theme.aspx
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: when you've got a chance, I need to talk to you about packages for 10.04
<mhall119|work> I know I've been slacking on them for Qimo
<mhall119|work> if it's too late to get qimo-wallpapers and qimo-session updated and included in Lucid, I'd like to have qimo-games pulled from Universe
<joerg> hi
<highvoltage> hi mhall119|work, joerg
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: we can try, feature freeze is long past, but since they are quite simple packages that are mostly harmess we might be able to get a feature freeze exeption
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: if not I'll just use a PPA for this cycle, but I don't think qimo-games does any good being included on it's own
#edubuntu 2011-03-14
<Roasted_> Why is it when I use the profile editor it tanks my ICEauthority file
<Roasted_> all I get are errors
<doctormo> highvoltage: ping
<highvoltage> doctormo: pong
<doctormo> highvoltage: Are you writing a blog post?
<highvoltage> doctormo: yes, at least... planning to :)
<highvoltage> (or at least, I have a draft blog entry that I'll probably finish today/tomorrow)
<doctormo> highvoltage: My irc is a little flaky, I didn't know if you responded to me or not
<highvoltage> doctormo: yes
<doctormo> highvoltage: Can you repeat what you said?
<highvoltage> doctormo: I said yes
<highvoltage> to:
<highvoltage> 14:53 < doctormo> highvoltage: Are you writing a blog post?
<doctormo> highvoltage: Ah right, doezy me
<highvoltage> doctormo: It's a draft, will probably publish it by tomorrow, but if you want to beat me to it... then feel free to do so
<doctormo> highvoltage: No, I've published on deviantart, that's enough for me. you got the svg right?\
<highvoltage> doctormo: yep, it takes a while to open in inkscape :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: it does, 2gb ram is important
<highvoltage> only seems to use 200MB here, but I guess it depends how much undo history you keep and stuff like that
#edubuntu 2011-03-15
<highvoltage> doctormo: around?
<doctormo> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> doctormo: I was just looking at a smaller version of the wallpaper in my blog entry..
<highvoltage> doctormo: is it just me or does the bug look a bit sad? is that intentional? :)
<highvoltage> doctormo: I'm not sure if the sun is still slightly to high either
<highvoltage> doctormo: either way I'm posting the blog entry now :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: The sun is actually lower than it was in the last draft. The bug looks sad, all bugs do.
<doctormo> changes can be made, have a play around in inkscape if you can.
<highvoltage> doctormo: eek, my bad, I seemed to have somehow used an older version, I'll update my blog entry
<highvoltage> doctormo: no need to change then :)
<pleia2> doctormo: beautiful background! (but I'm sure you know that :))
<highvoltage> (I'm sure he still needs to hear it :p)
<Ahmuck-Sr> doctormo: same background as the other day?
#edubuntu 2011-03-16
<highvoltage> doctormo: someone left a comment on my blog entry, it's not a big deal but the moon's lighting didn't adjust with the new sun position, so it's a bit off (few people would probably notice, but if you could fix it it would be nice)
<doctormo> Hey highvoltage
<doctormo> nice blog post
<doctormo> What's the community reaction so far?
<highvoltage> doctormo: only got 3 responses so far, but they were completely possitive
<highvoltage> doctormo: I pasted the feedback about the moonshine on here yesterday, but not sure if you got it
<doctormo> highvoltage: No, I've been offline from chat for a few days
<highvoltage> doctormo: the sun's position got lowered, but the sunlight on the moon is still from the position from the old sun position
<highvoltage> doctormo: few people will probably ever notice, up to you if you want to fix it :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Anythign else while I have the file open?
<doctormo> Did it get chatter on the mailing list?
<highvoltage> doctormo: haven't posted anything about it to the list yet... but that's an idea
<highvoltage> doctormo: I guess we'll get most of the feedback when it's actually released. that's how it usually works. people who have suggestions or strong feedback always waits until after release before commenting :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Because that's _so_ useful ;-)
<doctormo> You should give out Edubuntu tester tokens. Good one one free moan after release
<doctormo> Otherwise you're free to report bugs, but moaning will be shot down ;-P
<highvoltage> doctormo: :)
<doctormo> highvoltage: Revision 16 uploaded to deviantArt, please check
<highvoltage> it's orientation is better, I notice that it's a thinner cicle as well
<highvoltage> it's good
<nicknack> on xubuntu 10.10 64-bit i just ran these two commands: sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
<nicknack> sudo ltsp-build-client
<nicknack> ...on my laptop. if i connect a second machine via the ethernet jack, do i need to do anyting else for the second system to netboot?
<nicknack> during boot of the second machine i am getting the error, "no dhcp or proxy dhcp offers were received."
<highvoltage> nixternal: what's the address on your laptop?
<highvoltage> (oops, that was meant for nicknack, who is no longer with us)
#edubuntu 2011-03-17
<Guest1542> hello all, does anyone know how to install slingplayer on ubuntu?
<mjhszig> anybody home?
<alkisg> !question
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
#edubuntu 2011-03-18
<highvoltage> good morning from new RL office
#edubuntu 2011-03-20
<stgraber-laptop> Testing IRC from new office, seems like reverse DNS is already setup, yeah !
#edubuntu 2012-03-12
<cog> Wow what a major pain in the butt bug :C
<cog> I switched back to the terminal hotkeyed to F7 but didn't see anything but noninteractive garbage messed up from my previous configuration of windows in Unity :C
<highvoltage> stgraber: have you booked flights for UDS yet?
<highvoltage> (these are the options from YUL if you haven't: http://paste.ubuntu.com/880723/)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm waiting for my passport
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah for some reason I thought you collected that on Friday
<highvoltage> stgraber: should I go ahead and book mine or do you think you'll have your passport soon?
<stgraber> highvoltage: what's the cheapest? ideally I'd take the direct as I try to avoid ORD at all costs and changing through YYZ would add a quite a few extra hours + custom/immigration at the middle of the trip
<stgraber> highvoltage: I should have my passport this week
<alkisg> stgraber, highvoltage, do you think I could ask for sponsoring for that UDS too?
<highvoltage> stgraber: it doesn't mention costs
<highvoltage> alkisg: yeah you should have already!
<alkisg> It's the first time I've heard about it, I thought it would be organized later on :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: yeah, unfortunately jono bacon assumes that *everyone* reads his blog: http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/27/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-3/
<stgraber> alkisg: this UDS is a bit weird in that it's on the US west coast instead of Europe. I don't know where the UDS in October is going to be this year but if it's in the US again, it might be best for you to save "points" for that one and bundle with the LTSP hackfest again
<alkisg> Wait,  Oakland, California ? I thought it would be in Europe! (not that I'll complain at all if I'm granted sponsorship :))
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm guessing you didn't even apply for it, you just got invited by Kate right?
<alkisg> stgraber: it's the last year where I have a leave of absense for my phd, I don't know if I'll be able to leave my school the next years (except for summer vacations)
<alkisg> So it's possible that it's the last UDS I'll be able to attend
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah. I wasn't even sure if I'd go, but I ended up going for it
<stgraber> alkisg: from Jono's blog "The deadline for submissions is Wed 22nd February 2012 so be sure to get yours in!" :(
<alkisg> Ouch
<highvoltage> stgraber: so I'm taking the first flight fwiw, I guess you could just say you want the same
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, direct from Montreal to SFO would definitely be my preference
<stgraber> highvoltage: from there I know how to get to Oakland, did it a few times ;)
<highvoltage> great
<alkisg> Sniff... /me was looking forward for the next UDS :(
<stgraber> I was a bit surprised at how little noise there actually was about this UDS...
<highvoltage> alkisg: I just assumed you did apply :(
<stgraber> I don't even remember seeing something on the usual mailing-lists...
<alkisg> Nah, I had searched about it a couple of months ago and didn't find anything, so I just thought I'd read the new on the mailing lists
<alkisg> *news
<highvoltage> ooh, sorry jono
<highvoltage> he did actually post it to the right place, too: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-January/000928.html
<alkisg> It would be a good chance to visit vagrantc too
<stgraber> oh, indeed he did, must have been filtered by the "/ignore jono" my brain was applying to my e-mails at the time
<alkisg> Anyway, I'll put my hopes of seeing you guys again to the chance that some future LTSP BTS will be organized in Europe + in the summer :)
<cog> How do I run Mathematica through wine on Edubuntu -current?
<cog> positivecognitionmentat@gmail.com (me) wants the answer :)
<cog> I don't know how to run an installation program in terminal, please assist & may you get more positive energy than you give me :)
#edubuntu 2012-03-13
 * bluefrog test
<bluefrog> pouet
#edubuntu 2012-03-14
<reptile_smile> hi all, just done first install of LTSP via Edubuntu and am thrilled with it
<reptile_smile> The next thing I need to investigate is the process for how to mount Users' existing windows files/'My documents' to the Edubuntu home drive.  I think we have LDAP authentication - is this likely to be a difficult process..?
<reptile_smile> sorry
<reptile_smile> Was supposed to say:
<reptile_smile> next job is to mount users my docs to their edubuntu home drive
<reptile_smile> we have LDAP authentication (I think)
<reptile_smile> is it likely to be hard..?
#edubuntu 2012-03-15
<cog> OK I switch back to my main account & I don't see anything but x window garbage :/
<cog> Now I just hit alt+tab and all i get : white space!
#edubuntu 2012-03-16
<AliNarcis> hi
<AliNarcis> anybody knows y i cant select a session other than unity when trying to log in from a client
<cog> I don't have analogous Windows Snap (TM) functionality & I want it, thanks for your learning & teaching :)
#edubuntu 2012-03-17
<alkisg> stgraber: hi, about dnsmasq again... so, is it correct if I say that the dnsmasq package is broken on Ubuntu, since when one installs it, it doesn't work if he doesn't go and manually change the network-manager configuration?
<alkisg> Maybe that change should go to dnsmasq.postinst then?
<alkisg> Or, maybe network-manager should check if dnsmasq or bind9 are installed, and not do the local resolver thing if they are?
<stgraber> yeah, network manager checking would make more sense, we mentioned it a few times for people using bind
#edubuntu 2012-03-18
<cog> I saw my title bar when I didn't log in yet :C
<cog> Did I get hacked or not?
<cog> I don't get the same shortcuts I used to from Dash Home :/ I don't like using research as opposed to spontaneous human communication even if I don't see your face :)
<cog> I don't want my hax0rz overworked though so I don't mind to look it up FIFTY FOUR DECADES FROM NOW :P
#edubuntu 2013-03-11
<weljor> highvolt1ge: Hello!
<weljor> stgraber: Hello!
<weljor> I have a question about Raring amd64 (daily build) on live usb persistent:
<weljor> On system started, I have launched "Software update"
<weljor> The system asks an partial upgrade!
<weljor> All updates is not included in the iso (daily)?
<weljor> On Ubuntu (raring-daily) amd64, this is not detected.
<weljor> stgraber: Hi
<weljor> highvoltage: Hello!
<highvoltage> hey weljor
<highvoltage> (well, more like, goodnight from me :) )
<weljor> goodnight to you!
<weljor> highvoltage: the updates is not included on daily?
#edubuntu 2013-03-12
<harrisr> can i use a picture as a certain folders icon
#edubuntu 2013-03-13
<stgraber> highvoltage: respun Edubuntu, that should give us a working amd64 build this time around. I probably won't be around to watch the build end, but it "should" work. If not, I'll look in the morning.
<highvoltage> stgraber: seems like it worked, I'm almost half-way syncing now
<highvoltage> hmm, doesn't seem to get to lightdm in virtualbox
<stgraber> highvolt1ge: we'll need a FFe to remove the server bits from edubuntu for 13.04
<highvoltage> stgraber: we need a FFe to remove features?
<stgraber> yes, it's a feature change
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm wondering if we should have a delayed beta release, there's two bugs that I'd rather not want in a beta if there is one (live system doesn't boot if there's a swap partition and default session is '10')
<stgraber> and the installer showing stuff that don't work too
<highvoltage> indeed, technically a beta shouldn't have that
<stgraber> highvoltage: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-live/+bug/1154601
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1154601 in edubuntu-live (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Disable the edubuntu-server bits on the Edubuntu media" [Undecided,New]
<stgraber> highvoltage: hmm, and the icon theme is still wrong here...
<highvoltage> yep, same. I remember you changing it to choose the right theme so that it has the right fallback set
<stgraber> highvoltage: ok, pushing fixed edubuntu-artwork now
<stgraber> highvolt1ge: can you make sure we get an updated slideshow by UI freeze (next Thursday)?
<highvolt1ge> stgraber: I was just thinking of that today
<highvolt1ge> stgraber: I originally pretty much stopped doing anything for this release with all the rolling release stuff happening, but I could have it before thursday, yes. possibly even tomorrow since I pretty much have the whole day for it
<highvoltage> stgraber: having fun with the unity ffe? I like the way tumbleweed went ahead and marked it wontfix hehe
<stgraber> highvoltage: :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: oh, we also need to do something about the wallpaper before UIF
<stgraber> highvoltage: so amd64 here boots fine, live ltsp works, installer works, lightdm is fine post-install and LTSP post-install appears to work too
<stgraber> now to look at that swap weirdness, see if it fixed itself magically too
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'll see what I can do about wallpaper tomorrow too, it's a tough one, I found a few on the wikimedia site a few weeks back but I wasn't sure how well they'd work as wallpapers, will have to check
<stgraber> highvoltage: gah, no, that bug is still there, I guess I'll really have to get to the bottom of this then...
<highvoltage> a horizontally flipped version of http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fleur_de_givre_L.jpg that's made slightly darker might work
<stgraber> highvoltage: that stuff doesn't make sense... it's clearly swap related but it's not the swap script that's hanging...
<highvoltage> I tried it before and it was just too bright
<highvoltage> stgraber: yeah I also thought it's strange and couldn't think of what could cause it. even weirder that it's edubuntu specific.
<stgraber> highvoltage: it's init that's hanging...
<stgraber> highvoltage: I just added some debugging to the initramfs and it hangs after "exec run-init /root /sbin/init quiet splash --"
<stgraber> highvoltage: and the even weirder thing is that the swap isn't even enabled...
<highvoltage> really really weird.
<stgraber> highvoltage: ah, ok, I think I understand how that stuff works now. We're probably looking at something blowing up in mountall
<stgraber> yeah, definitely mountall being unhappy about something...
<stgraber> highvoltage: so the magic conditions are: swap in /etc/fstab + cgroup-lite installed
<highvoltage> stgraber: still weird. and interesting :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: that one has got to be perfect^ :)
#edubuntu 2013-03-16
<weljor> highvoltage: Hello!
<weljor> highvoltage: you have checked this bug?
<weljor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-live/+bug/1086498
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1086498 in edubuntu-live (Ubuntu) "[r-alpha] Edubuntu default session is "10"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<weljor> highvoltage: it was fixed for me!
<weljor> highvoltage: would be closed?
<highvoltage> weljor: ah yes, stgraber fixed it a few days ago, so it can be closed indeed
<weljor> highvoltage: good weekend! thanks!
#edubuntu 2014-03-12
<stgraber> highvoltage: any last minute change to the 14.04 artwork/slideshow? if so, now would be a good time :)
#edubuntu 2014-03-13
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'll go through it, just to make sure in terms of apps and so that it's not lying
<highvoltage> (I remember having a few frowns with the last release but haven't had a chance to look at it again)
<stgraber> highvoltage: thanks. UI freeze is technically today, so it'd be good to at least know how far behind our plans we are...
<highvoltage> stgraber: I guess testdrive doesn't work, I think that's the only slide that should be removed. I guess you could do it with the next upload?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, the testdrive slide should be dropped. I'll do a slideshow upload tomorrow so would be nice if you could do the change in the branch.
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok will do
#edubuntu 2015-03-10
<stillcut> hello
#edubuntu 2015-03-13
<mhall119> stgraber: highvoltage: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/2ywn16/thank_you_edubuntu/
#edubuntu 2015-03-14
<highvoltage> mhall119: oh cool, thanks!
 * highvoltage should keep note of these for when we spend some time on the website again some time
#edubuntu 2016-03-16
<aatish910> What's the best place to look at for creating a custom spin of Edubuntu?
#edubuntu 2016-03-18
<andrzej_> hi
<andrzej_> what is login and pass to run livecd ?
#edubuntu 2018-03-16
<shahlan> hello
#edubuntu 2019-03-11
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (cosmic-proposed/main) [18.5-21-g8ee294d5-0ubuntu1~18.10.1 => 18.5-45-g3554ffe8-0ubuntu1~18.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [18.5-21-g8ee294d5-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 18.5-45-g3554ffe8-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [18.5-21-g8ee294d5-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 18.5-45-g3554ffe8-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
